# Wife wants to separate



## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

First time on this site, so let me give you all some background...

My wife and I have been together since we were 18. We met in June of 2005 and found out we were pregnant with our daughter in October. She was born in July of 2006 and we were married in May of 2007. I don't think we were madly in love at first, but over time, we both fell in love. We were blessed with a son in April of 2009 and things had been great...or so I thought...

My wife has always dealt with anxiety and depression. She had struggled with her weight her whole life and after the two kids, it only got worse. She eventually got up the courage to attend some IC for the depression etc. in 2013. 

I am not an emotional person...I am very logical and rational. I like to be in control of the situation and know what is going on. We complemented each other well. 

In 2014/2015 she began talking about gastric bypass surgery. I encouraged her towards it, as I thought it would benefit her health and her mental state. I am happy to say she has killed it and has lost nearly 125 lbs. in less than 2 years. She has felt more confident in herself and is starting to feel beautiful, which is great. 

Over the last 3 years of her attending IC, she has asked me to attend with her on a few occasions. I always refused, stating my dislike of therapists and thought they were a waste of time. I was happy it was working for her, but didn't see the benefit of me attending. To be fair, we did have discussions over those 3 years about how she wasn't happy and I wasn't meeting her emotional needs. I didn't listen...I was stubborn and often changed for a few weeks and then reverted back. Eventually she just stopped talking to me about it and I (stupidly) assumed everything was fine.

About 2 weeks ago, I logged on to Facebook, thinking it was my profile. She had left herself logged in and I didn't notice. There were some messages with another guy that started off innocent enough, and then crossed the line. She started telling him that she felt butterflies around him, thought he was very attractive and even exchanged phone numbers so as to possible meet up for lunch behind my back. I was shocked and mortified...My wife is the most moral and trustworthy person I know. I couldn't believe she would do this...

I confronted her that evening and she didn't try to hide or deny it. She said she felt a deep connection with this guy (she had literally met him for 30 mins at our daughter's cheer practice the week before, and then spent 6 hours sending messages on FB). It didn't make sense to me. I agreed that we needed to attend counseling and said I would do whatever she needed me to do. I did ask her to text the guy and tell him that she had made a mistake and was going to work on things with me. She said that she would, that she needed some space and she'd like to sleep on the couch for the next few nights. I agreed. 

The next morning I awoke early for work. She had also gotten up to take the dog out, so I asked her if she had messaged him. She told me she did and that he had said that he understood and it was fine. But something didn't feel right. My wife is a horrible liar and I could see right through it. I kept pressing and she confessed that she had sent him PG-13 pictures and he had reciprocated with R-rated pics. They had also spent 2 hours on the phone after I had gone to bed and had phone sex. This guy was only in town visiting family for a few days and has since gone back to California, where he is stationed in the military. She has told me on multiple occasions since, that it wasn't about him individually, but about how he made her feel. It made her realize that she hadn't been feeling that way towards me and gave her the confidence to do something about it.

I was devastated. We went to her IC together and she talked about how I hadn't been emotionally supportive, had been condescending and disrespectful to her feelings over the last years (all true). She said that she had been wrestling with these thoughts (leaving me) for the better part of the 3 years and that meeting this guy had given her the courage to speak up. I told her that I still wanted to make this work and just needed a chance to make these changes. I agreed to attend my own IC for these issues, as well as marriage counseling together. She has for space for 6 days before the marriage counseling appointment and I agreed I would do my best...

Well, my best sucked, to say the least. I was so broken and hurt that I badgered her with questions and discussions about us. I'm not used to dealing with emotions and I didn't know how to handle it. I did give her some space for the last 3 days, but it was too late.

At the marriage counseling session, she told me she wanted to separate. She said she had never felt so sure about a decision. We agreed to make it through the holidays for the kids and then figure everything out in January. The counselor encouraged me to continue seeing my IC to work on my issues and to do it for myself and not to save the marriage (easier said than done). 

We are currently still living in our house together and sleeping in the same bed (King size, opposite sides). It is daily torture for me to see her and not be able to hold her, touch her, kiss her, tell her how sorry I am and how much I care. The kids know something is up, but we are going to be quiet for now. We agreed that in January, I would move out for a month for a "trial separation". At first she told me we could use this time to see if she missed me at all or if us being apart caused her to feel anything. Now, it's just to temper the kids into the idea. We have a house together and can't afford a mortgage and rent payment, so in February I would come back and we would start working on the logistics of the separation.

To be clear, I don't want to separate at all. I feel like she is throwing away 10 years of marriage, the house we worked so hard for and doing emotional harm to the kids, without even giving me a chance to change. I realize this has been a long time coming for her, but in my mind, this has all happened in 14 days. Three weeks ago, I had a wife, kids, etc. and everything was ok. Now my whole world has been torn down. I can't eat, I can barely sleep. She seems so at peace with this and so calm. To see her just sitting on the couch in the evening and knowing that she isn't feeling the pain and hurt I am, just causes me more pain. 

I don't know what to do. I have realized that begging, pleading and whining isn't going to get her back. She has told me that she is open to me changing, but that it probably won't change anything. I'm scared...I've never been with anyone else, never been single...I'm scared for my kids...I scared for my wife. I don't want to throw this all away and then have her realize this was a mistake in 10 months when the damage has been done. I will love her until the day I die and right now, I'd take her back no matter what, at anytime...

I really don't know what to do. I'm not worried about her continuing the brief affair, but I feel like she has already given up. My theory is that she is feeling more confident in her new body (2 years post Gastric Bypass) and this guy that she feels wouldn't have given her two looks 5 years ago was now attracted to her. She sent pictures of her body and he wasn't replused, like she thought he would be. She know wants to see if other guys that wouldn't have found her attractive pre-surgery will, and could make her happier than I have. This kills me, since I thought she was beautiful before and after, and have been there for her...

How do I save my marriage? Do I start the 180 plan? I really want this marriage to work, but I can't seem needy or pathetic. I'm scared of the unknown and scared for my family....

Sorry for the long post and major rant....


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

She wants to separate to pursue the affair. Do not do it.

You will be enabling her to try this other guy out with you being her safety net. Think about that. How does that make you feel?

Your shortcomings contributed to the stress of your marriage, sure. Her choice to cheat in order to deal with it is her fault completely.

If it were me, I would tell her no to the separation. Work together for the marriage with 100% no contact with the AP, or divorce.

Love yourself enough to not tolerate living in limbo.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

kesta86 said:


> How do I save my marriage? Do I start the 180 plan? I really want this marriage to work, but I can't seem needy or pathetic. I'm scared of the unknown and scared for my family....


Here's the thing. You can't actively save your marriage. It's a two way street. What you can do is save yourself. That is what the 180 does. It helps you detach, it helps you work on yourself, turn yourself into a better person...for you. It help remove codependence and neediness. What it doesn't do is directly affect your wife so she wants you. Maybe you working on yourself and needing her less wakes her up out of the fog. Maybe it doesn't. Either way, you have focused on you, worked towards a better you and either you are better prepared to move on, or she changes her tune and you are both better to move to the future.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Compliments of @morituri.

"I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them."


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Trial separation is a trial run with OM. Do not allow it. Do not pay the pick me game.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Make her move out if she wants a trial run. Get your ducks in row, cancel all shared credit cards. Get the bulk of your cash out of accounts that she can easily deplete. If she wants to be single, then give her a preview of how life will be without you. 

Start hitting the gym 5x a week lifting heavy, eating healthy, and drinking only water. Keep going to IC. Time to work on yourself, making you the best you've ever been. You can't change how she feels. Sounds like she checked out a while ago and isn't coming back.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

This is an exit affair for her. She's been trying to communicate to you for three years that your marriage is in trouble, and you refused to go with her to counseling and you basically ignored all the warning flares she was sending up.

This didn't happen in 14 days. This happened over the course of three years while you were ignoring or turning a blind eye to her TELLING you that the marriage was in trouble. This isn't about her being thin now and being able to get guys she couldn't dream of getting before. It's because she was feeling neglected, unheard, and ignored.

I think she's done. I think she's already made up her mind. As the only female poster on this thread thus far, I can tell you that women will put up with a lot of sh*t from their [male] partner before they close the door for good. But when they DO decide to close that door, it's because they've already decided never to open it again because they're tired of being hurt by a man to whom they've given countless opportunities. And it sounds like she has given you a lot of opportunities to change and fix things, opportunities that you have squandered.

I'm not casting blame here. But there are two sides to every story, and everyone always throws blame at the cheater and bestows sainthood on the betrayed spouse, and that bothers me. No, you didn't deserve to be cheated on. But she also didn't deserve the sh*tty treatment she got from her husband. You are both in the wrong.

If she wants to leave, let her leave. But if she wants to separate, she has to be the one to move out. Then follow the other posters' advice here about doing the 180. Give her what she wants. If she wants out of the marriage, let her go and focus on yourself. Focus on becoming a better person, a better father, and a better partner, and in that process, you'll realize that you can survive--and even be happy--without her. She may come back, she may not. But that's not why you do the 180--you do the 180 to take care of YOU. But if you want her to come back, you're going to need to grow into a better, permanent version of yourself. Once a woman has decided the close the door, it takes a Herculean effort for it to be re-opened.

Good luck. Learn and grown from your mistakes.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> She wants to separate to pursue the affair. Do not do it.
> 
> You will be enabling her to try this other guy out with you being her safety net. Think about that. How does that make you feel?
> 
> ...


_
Let her separate!_

Why, I think you should be magnanimous. *Even to the point of helping her look for a flat/appartment and even suggesting decor for her new one bedroom abode*. >

Oh! :surprise: That's *not* her plan? She thinks you should move out?

How about... no? Or even hell, no!?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Nice FIP... very succinct.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

*Re: Wife wants to separate,*

Oh sweetheart....

I feel like I am reading my ex husband writing this, minus the affair part.
It is so hard once one spouse (in our case it was me) is "done" and has given up.
We have account of all the times we begged for you to see us, to hear us, to try, and you assumed we would never leave.
Then one day, we run out of what it takes to stay, and it many times is very final.

Of course I can't speak for her, but it is all too familiar of a story for me to read because I lived it. I do agree, if she wants out, she should leave, not you. Better yet try an inhouse séparation first. If she won't stop communicating with th OM then it probably won't matter...but if she would agree to set him on a shelf for 30-60 days and give your marriage one more try, you may have a shot.

I am so sorry you are here. I'm sorry for all of you. I hate how easy the internet and texting makes destroying marriage so simple. What a sad state for the family unit...I'm over 3 years post divorce and had a good cry just this AM about my regrets and what divorce puts my babies through and continues to do so.

I hope you have a happier ending. Love is supposed to conquer all, but sometimes it doesn't, but I hope it can in your case.


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

She has already told me she has cut off communication with the OM and that it wasn't about him specifically. It was about the feeling she had with him and that she didn't have that with me and hadn't for a long time. It gave her the confidence to speak up and finally say she was done. I feel so stupid that I was so blind and deaf for so long. 

An in-house separation is on the table. I said I would sleep in the basement while we figure out how to sell our home, etc. I just don't know that it's going to help or that she is going to be willing to give it another try, regardless. I guess all I can do is stop acting like a lost puppy, stop following her around or trying to win her back. I need to make changes and do it for me, while hoping she realizes what she's doing. This sucks....


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

She has lied to you in the past she may still be lying to you now...i recommend that you instill 180 on her and you stay with it, also start taking time for you, join a gym, but what ever you do, you do for you not for her. And one more thing...no begging at all.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> *. I guess all I can do is stop acting like a lost puppy, stop following her around or trying to win her back. I need to make changes and do it for me, while hoping she realizes what she's doing. This sucks....*


Excellent plan.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sorry you are here but it is not as if you didnt have a part to play. She should not have cheated but she was trying to get your attention, you even admit it and want to back track when the chips are down. This is something I can never understand about guys. The wife tells them over and over the marriage is in trouble but they prefer to stick their head in the sand.

Read this Walk Away Women and The Devastated Men Who Love Them | YourTango

Now you have to do some things that might (might not) win her back, they seem counter intuitive but do them. At the moment, she cheated, feels justified as you didn't listen to her and is expecting you to wait around while she makes a decision, that is not on. If she wants you physically gone, she is the one who cheated so she should move out, not you. 

1. no begging pleading
2. go to IC for yourself, become a better man for yourself
3. Do the 180 hard, act as if you believe that she wants to move on, no emotions, no affection, give her what she wants, only discuss finances and the kids
4. tell family and friends what has happened - her cheating/EA - expose it, you have nothing to be ashamed about
5. Go see a lawyer and see what your options are and what needs to be done


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

I see nothing to gain by leaving for a month. I recommend working on a separation agreement, child support, visitation, financial support, etc. While you are still in the home, I recommending you taking the kids and doing things together without her to get them use the change, while doing fun things. She wants separation to explore her single side, while you continue to pay the bills. Do not beg or plead it only makes you look weak and very unattractive. This is also a good time to take an inventory of things that you would do different if given another chance. This will be helpful to either this relationship or the next.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

kesta86 said:


> She has already told me she has cut off communication with the OM and that it wasn't about him specifically. It was about the feeling she had with him and that she didn't have that with me and hadn't for a long time. It gave her the confidence to speak up and finally say she was done. I feel so stupid that I was so blind and deaf for so long.
> 
> An in-house separation is on the table. I said I would sleep in the basement while we figure out how to sell our home, etc. I just don't know that it's going to help or that she is going to be willing to give it another try, regardless. I guess all I can do is stop acting like a lost puppy, stop following her around or trying to win her back. I need to make changes and do it for me, while hoping she realizes what she's doing. This sucks....


Are you offering to sleep in the basement for her, or for you?

You can overcome this, whether she can is a different path that only she can take, but you have to keep your mind right (calm) about every step you take and plan on taking. Your biggest challenge is keeping her close (presence) and being visible while you find your confidence to tackle your hardest questions... why am I like this and what do I really need in order to align and balance my life... but as you work on this it needs to be shared without words because they mean little, actions count.

You've attended her IC and it sounds like you haven't really invested in the value, but now it's time to stop looking at that forked trail and choose your own, like yesterday... but tomorrow will do. To make an impact you need time to slow the separation down so get an appointment with a counselor and let her know you have done so. I will share from experience, and your milage may vary, but I actually settled on a female counselor for this because I needed, as it also sounds as you do, to understand the perspective you aren't and an opposite-sex counselor may deliver that better in a way you need to begin hearing. This I share from my own experience and emerging path (11 years young in my own journey).

You sound, and I'd gather, feel thirsty from your wandering... you won't find emotional water in an oil well of logic that hasn't connected you spiritually to your wife.

The immediate calm is an important thing... it's what you do today that counts. If she see's that effort and you see a softening... put it aside for now, you are doing this for you as that is the only thing you can control but definitely let it assist you as feedback that you are on the right path for you.

Some are not successful as many experienced posters here shared, some can overcome and still be dealing with the ripples of a thousand past bad decisions for years, decades even, but once you are on your path, never quit trying to apply an eightfold path mentality to life and build your life on emerging positives that even if you are not successful with your wife, your children will be strengthened with.

Sometimes an unfamiliar path of self can lead you to the best places... do not hesitate and strap on your mindful hikers.

Peaceful trails be with you...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> This is an exit affair for her. She's been trying to communicate to you for three years that your marriage is in trouble, and you refused to go with her to counseling and you basically ignored all the warning flares she was sending up.
> 
> This didn't happen in 14 days. This happened over the course of three years while you were ignoring or turning a blind eye to her TELLING you that the marriage was in trouble. This isn't about her being thin now and being able to get guys she couldn't dream of getting before. It's because she was feeling neglected, unheard, and ignored.
> 
> ...


100% spot on. I have been this woman. 

That said... I wouldn't suggest separation, not beyond an in house, anyway. And since she is the one who wants out, she should be the one to leave.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> 100% spot on. I have been this woman.
> 
> That said... I wouldn't suggest separation, not beyond an in house, anyway. And since she is the one who wants out, she should be the one to leave.


With the right action and intent shown upon realization from the neglector, could you have "un-been" that woman? Found a moment of reversal to say... "let's see where this goes"?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> With the right action and intent shown upon realization from the neglector, could you have "un-been" that woman that woman? Found a moment of reversal to say... "let's see where this goes"?


Nope. There wasn't a single thing that could have been said or done to make me stay. I was DONE.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> Nope. There wasn't a single thing that could have been said or done to make me stay. I was DONE.


Then I am truly blessed to have had the window that was present... squander not a moment OP.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kesta86 said:


> I really don't know what to do. I'm not worried about her continuing the brief affair, but I feel like she has already given up. My theory is that she is feeling more confident in her new body (2 years post Gastric Bypass) and this guy that she feels wouldn't have given her two looks 5 years ago was now attracted to her. She sent pictures of her body and he wasn't replused, like she thought he would be. She know wants to see if other guys that wouldn't have found her attractive pre-surgery will, and could make her happier than I have. This kills me, since I thought she was beautiful before and after, and have been there for her...


Read His Needs Her Needs to understand what your wife has been missing in your marriage. Visit a therapist every week to find out why you can't do emotion and how to fix that. A woman's top needs almost always include an emotional connection, someone to talk to without judgment, a best friend. Can you be that?

You'll also need to monitor her for now. If she continues to cheat, if you want to stay married, you will have to expose her to her family.

Also read every single thing you can find about 'walkaway women.' THAT is what you're dealing with. The cheating was a byproduct of 10+ years of purposeful neglect on your part, combined with her finally being attractive which, as all women know, is what we need to ever find another man. Of course some women get so fed up that they leave whether they have a chance at finding someone else or not. THOSE women are the ones who are usually well and truly DONE - so unhappy that they'd rather be alone the rest of their lives than stay with you.

So you may have a chance, but you will HAVE to figure out how to get in tune with how she works. And it sounds like you've done a piss poor job of that, as you pride yourself on being logical and unemotional.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> 100% spot on. I have been this woman.
> 
> That said... I wouldn't suggest separation, not beyond an in house, anyway. And since she is the one who wants out, she should be the one to leave.


As have I. To me this is a case of a guy who is not that concerned about his wife and what's important to her as long as she doesn't leave, because all he's interested in is that the marriage works for him. 

When he realizes his world is going to turn upside down that's what motivates him, but really if she came back and shut he'd be perfectly happy.

Let's compare this to a woman who doesn't have sex with her hb, and when he brings it up she ignores him. He stops asking and she assumes things are fine. 

Eventually he has an affair and asks for a divorce and she claims to be blindsided. Nobody would bestow sainthood, as ap put it, on such a wife, nor should they. 

If you can't be bothered to worry about what bothers your wife until she finds another guy and dumps you that should tell you something. 

I find it pretty dismissive that this has somehow been attributed to her weight loss, as if somehow treating her poorly when she was heavier was ok because she had fewer options.

Or maybe it was her weight loss in that she finally had the confidence to stop putting up with poor behavior.

Hvll, even if she left with no affair most of TAM would be insisting their had to be someone else. If you can pin it on someone else you're absolved of everything.

I too don't suggest an in house separation.....it's going to be miserable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Nope. There wasn't a single thing that could have been said or done to make me stay. I was DONE.


Me too, because my ex had demonstrated that he didn't give a sh!t about me and anything he did would have been to keep his world from blowing up.

That wasn't a partner i could trust with my back. 

People show you who they are when they think you're not looking or you can't do anything about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

Thank you...I'm trying my best to let her go amicably and with love. I know that if I let her go with hate, then this will be even more painful for all involved, especially the kids. 

I told her I cannot control her actions and if she wants to speak with this OM, that's her prerogative. I, too, don't believe in divorce for the same reason...Not religious, but I vowed to be with her until death do us part. She is not honoring those vows, and again, that's her choice. But I will not be the one to file divorce papers. 

We had a long talk last night and she said she just doesn't love me anymore and doesn't want to be in the marriage. She doesn't want me out of her life, she wants me to be her friend and be there for her. We have been best friends for 12 years...This is going to take time and healing for me to get over. Like you mentioned, she is much further along in the process than I, so I have some catching up to do. We are going to live in the same house until we can work out the sale (probably when kids are done school/June) and then move into our own places. 

Maybe down the road, or along this path she will realize what she's doing and throwing away and decide to make a go at it. Maybe she won't...but I know I'm going to work on making the changes for me. I hope she is the one to reap the benefits of my changes, but if they are for a future partner, then so be it. I love this woman, I will always love this woman and nothing can change that...Not the cheating, not the deceit...I have unconditional love, and I always will. It will take time to forgive what she did, but I will...Again, I vowed to love her and be there for her, no matter what...She may not be honoring those vows, but I'm damn sure going to.

I appreciate all the advice I've gotten on here. Some of it has been blunt and cold...some has been warm. To each their own, and I respect each of you and your opinions/advice. But I need to do what I think is best for my situation, my family, my kids and my WS. In the end, this is going to all work itself out...I will hold my glimmer as long as I can...Again, thank you...
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l8estnews and LancasterAmos1966 like this.
Last edited by kesta86; Today at 9:00 AM..
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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Her wanting to be your friend is either to assuage guilt, or still get her needs met while neglecting yours, or both.

No way should you be any more than coparents, at least in the immediate future.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> But I will not be the one to file divorce papers.
> 
> We had a long talk last night and she said she just doesn't love me anymore and doesn't want to be in the marriage. She doesn't want me out of her life, she wants me to be her friend and be there for her. We have been best friends for 12 years...This is going to take time and healing for me to get over. Like you mentioned, she is much further along in the process than I, so I have some catching up to do. We are going to live in the same house until we can work out the sale (probably when kids are done school/June) and then move into our own places.
> 
> ...


You should file first. It makes the issue very real to your WW. As far as staying "friends" that means she wants to keep you for stability and cutting the lawn. Screw that noise. Your WW idea of divorce is like being a little bit pregnant. Either you are or you are not. You sir need to detach, 180 and file. Be sure to separate bank accounts as well.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> I told her I cannot control her actions and if she wants to speak with this OM, that's her prerogative. I, too, don't believe in divorce for the same reason...Not religious, but I vowed to be with her until death do us part. She is not honoring those vows, and again, that's her choice. But I will not be the one to file divorce papers.
> 
> l8estnews and LancasterAmos1966 like this.
> Last edited by kesta86; Today at 9:00 AM..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't understand why you are willing to let your W have an affair AND at the same time not willing to D over it. Makes no sense at all.


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

naiveonedave said:


> I can't understand why you are willing to let your W have an affair AND at the same time not willing to D over it. Makes no sense at all.


Because I vowed to be with her no matter what. Sickness, health, good, bad, everything. I will be the better person and honor those vows. She broke them when she cheated and she's breaking them by wanting separation. I will not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> Because I vowed to be with her no matter what. Sickness, health, good, bad, everything. I will be the better person and honor those vows. She broke them when she cheated and she's breaking them by wanting separation. I will not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is going to end very bad for you, emotionally. This is a very unhealthy attitude. You are not being a better person, you are trying to be a martyr. Good luck with that.

You do realize, that she is going to blame you for her affair, once it gets out in the public eye.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

kesta86 said:


> Thank you...I'm trying my best to let her go amicably and with love. I know that if I let her go with hate, then this will be even more painful for all involved, especially the kids.
> 
> I told her I cannot control her actions and if she wants to speak with this OM, that's her prerogative. I, too, don't believe in divorce for the same reason...Not religious, but I vowed to be with her until death do us part. She is not honoring those vows, and again, that's her choice. But I will not be the one to file divorce papers.
> 
> ...



You also vowed to love, honor and cherish her.

Did you?

Very often when people refer to vows they are referring to the vow to stay married while conveniently overlooking the other vows.

Did you honor all of your vows?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

kesta86 said:


> Thank you...I'm trying my best to let her go amicably and with love. I know that if I let her go with hate, then this will be even more painful for all involved, especially the kids.
> 
> I told her I cannot control her actions and if she wants to speak with this OM, that's her prerogative. I, too, don't believe in divorce for the same reason...Not religious, but I vowed to be with her until death do us part. She is not honoring those vows, and again, that's her choice. But I will not be the one to file divorce papers.
> 
> ...


So from her perspective what exactly is she throwing away?

A marriage to a guy who didn't think enough of her to pay any mind to the things that bother her as long as he got his?

That probably sounds harsher than I meant it, but it might help to look at it from her perspective, particularly if you want to reconcile at some point.

I sense an increasing sense of victim hood from you where you have nothing to do with anything and she just "broke her vows".

As I said in a previous post, did you uphold all of yours? Or are you cherry picking the vow that suits you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> You also vowed to love, honor and cherish her.
> 
> Did you?
> 
> ...


 No, I didn't. And I know I didn't. But the difference is I'm willing to work on it and change that going forward. She isn't. I'm not blaming her at all, and I'm not going to play the victim. I take full responsibility for my emotional neglect over the years. However, I'm willing to uphold my vows going forward and wanted to work with her to try and make things better and fix things. She wants to separate and walk away. I can't shake the feeling that she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants the benefit of having me as a best friend being able to talk with me and still see me and have me there for her, without having to work on the marriage. She also wants to be able to go out and be single and have the single life as well. I'm struggling with the feeling that I should just let her go and go our complete separate ways and only have contact in regards to the kids. That might be the best way to have her realize what she's throwing away and what's going to be gone. It might be the best chance of reconciliation down the road. It's just really hard for me to let her go right now. I'm still deeply in love with her and desire the contact with her. I'm kind of in a sense of limbo right now with my thoughts. I'm going to see my IC in a couple of hours. Hopefully they be able to provide some clarity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

kesta86 said:


> No, I didn't. And I know I didn't. But the difference is I'm willing to work on it and change that going forward. She isn't. I'm not blaming her at all, and I'm not going to play the victim. I take full responsibility for my emotional neglect over the years. However, I'm willing to uphold my vows going forward and we wanted to work with her to try and make things better and fix things. She wants to separate and walk away. I can't shake the feeling that she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants the benefit of having me as a best friend being able to talk with me and you still see me and be with me, without having to work on the marriage. She also wants to be able to go out and be single and have the single life as well. I'm struggling with the feeling that I should just let her go separate and go our complete separate ways and only have contact in regards to the kids. That might be the best way to have her realize what she's throwing away and what's going to be gone. It's just really hard for me to let her go right now. I'm still deeply in love with her and desire the contact with her. I'm kind of in a sense of limbo right now with my thoughts. I'm going to see my icy in a couple of hours. Hopefully they be able to provide some clarity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I understand.....it's painful. Believe it or not even though I wanted my divorce I still mourned the end of the marriage.

I had kids and certainly hadn't intended to divorce when I married.

But here's the thing: once the vows are broken neither of you are under obligation to work on anything. It would be nice if she was willing, but she may not have it in her.

Remember that while you're willing to try you also weren't the subject of her neglect, so your perspective is different. In the same way that you're currently more impacted by separating because she's had longer to process it, you haven't been the subject of a lot of neglect, so you aren't scarred like her.

Everyone has their breaking point. You're willing to move past her talking to another guy but if she'd slept with him you might not be even if she was willing, because you might be too scarred.

She might be too scarred to move forward with you. She might have been open a couple of years ago if you'd taken her seriously.

You just can't count on the other person still having an interest when you decide you get it.

Much of life is about timing. That's why we need to treat our partners well all the time. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> But there are two sides to every story, and everyone always throws blame at the cheater and bestows sainthood on the betrayed spouse, and that bothers me. No, you didn't deserve to be cheated on. But she also didn't deserve the sh*tty treatment she got from her husband. You are both in the wrong.


I completely agree with this. I am getting tired of people assuming a cheater is automatically at fault. When I see a cheater, I wonder what motivated them to do that? If the answer is years of a sexless marriage, neglect, not actually being a partner, and not being true to your vows, I don't think cheating is any worse. 

Personally, I could never cheat. It's not in my DNA. But, I am sympathetic to people that do cheat that were neglected by their spouse for years.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kesta86 said:


> No, I didn't. And I know I didn't. But the difference is I'm willing to work on it and change that going forward. She isn't.


That's because she sees now that she has other options than to accept the only marriage she's ever known - a bad one. 

That said, if you want to save the marriage you should expose the affair to her important people. So that she sees how bad it looks to the people whose respect she craves. And maybe has second thoughts. 

If you just step back and let her do whatever the hell she wants, you are not only hurting you, you're also hurting your kids AND her. You can fight the cheating. You can expose it and try to get her head out of the affair fog. She's not that far into it that she can't see what's wrong with a wakeup call (exposure). 

Will she be mad at you? Absolutely. But your marriage can survive her anger. It can't survive another man or her walking out.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

kesta86 said:


> Because I vowed to be with her no matter what. Sickness, health, good, bad, everything. I will be the better person and honor those vows. She broke them when she cheated and she's breaking them by wanting separation. I will not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let's cut the bull here. You haven't honor your vows. Not completely, anyway. If your vows are the typical vows used in a marriage ceremony, it would include to love and honor your spouse. You neglected her and your marital problems for at least three years. How was that loving? You think that once you put a ring on her finger, that you can relax and become complacent?

Tell her you'll be coparents with her, but you won't be her friend or be there for her. She's fired you from that job so let her OM take that job. You sound like a crappy husband but that still doesn't give her the right to cheat. 

Do the 180. No chit chat, no begging, don't move to the basement. If she wants an in-house separation, she would have to move to the basement. And what is this nonsense about not filing for D? That's a cop-out for being afraid to move on and bring a resolute outcome to this problem. What, are you going to wait while she has her affair? Where's your self-respect? Apologize to her for neglecting her and your marriage, for being stubborn and complacent. Tell her that it may look hopeless now but you are willing to work hard to repair this marriage, but she has to be all in. If she's not, you two should move directly to divorce and not drag this thing out.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

wantshelp said:


> I completely agree with this. I am getting tired of people assuming a cheater is automatically at fault. When I see a cheater, I wonder what motivated them to do that? If the answer is years of a sexless marriage, neglect, not actually being a partner, and not being true to your vows, I don't think cheating is any worse.
> 
> Personally, I could never cheat. It's not in my DNA. But, I am sympathetic to people that do cheat that were neglected by their spouse for years.


I personally tend to put cheaters into two distinct buckets:

The selfish, entitled pr!cks that have loving, willing spouses but think they're entitled to more, and the ones who were treated poorly by their spouse.

TAM treats them all as bucket one, but I think they need to be approached differently.

This one is bucket two.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grapes (Oct 21, 2016)

If you value your Kids and your time do NOT move out of that house. She wants to separate - fine - she can move out. Do yourself a favor and look up the top 10 mistakes dads make when the marriage breaks down. Please do it for your self.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Exactly. Do NOT make this easy for her. If she really loves you and is just in an affair fog (look it up), then she NEEDS you to help her get out of it. That means not just willingly walking way, nor making it easy for her to just skip on to the next thing that makes her heart go pitter-patter. She's a mom now and she has responsibilities. Slow this thing down. Tell her you aren't going anywhere. If she wants to move out to go find herself, she's free to do so, but you and the kids aren't going anywhere. This is y'all's home. 

THAT SAID, you must also be showing her in concrete ways that you GET it, and you will never be that guy again, that whichever woman you end up with will be thrilled because you'll never let a woman down again. She has to see you changing in real terms - not words.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I personally tend to put cheaters into two distinct buckets:
> 
> The selfish, entitled pr!cks that have loving, willing spouses but think they're entitled to more, and the ones who were treated poorly by their spouse.
> 
> ...


I am not defending the OP, he has mountains of ownership in this... but I do strongly feel that treated poorly is not an acceptable reason for engaging in an affair while married. If you are thinking another hidden relationship while married, even if just for sex, file and be done so that the cut is clean and with self-respect.

An affair is mutual assured destruction of all things self...


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

kesta86, you know where you have failed... some are hit here with 2x4's, you are getting the 4x4 attention, it hurts because you recognize the truth.

So be it... keep your vows and don't date, be humble and focus on finding those things in you so that if an opportunity comes you will be a different person than the one that started on this journey.

Your biggest challenge is that your wife has replaced you in some capacity, but who knows with the maybes as we all have challenges... it's the approach, the reception, and the acceptance that drives the difference when it comes to it.

You get the approach and the acceptance... these are yours to hold closely as you work on you.

Let her own the reception... these are yours to let go as you again, work on you.

Everything in life is temporary... while it feels like it, it will not last forever but it's the growth you implement that will soften any transition you do face.

Peace be with you on your path...


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

turnera said:


> Exactly. Do NOT make this easy for her. If she really loves you and is just in an affair fog (look it up), then she NEEDS you to help her get out of it. That means not just willingly walking way, nor making it easy for her to just skip on to the next thing that makes her heart go pitter-patter. She's a mom now and she has responsibilities. Slow this thing down. Tell her you aren't going anywhere. If she wants to move out to go find herself, she's free to do so, but you and the kids aren't going anywhere. This is y'all's home.
> 
> THAT SAID, you must also be showing her in concrete ways that you GET it, and you will never be that guy again, that whichever woman you end up with will be thrilled because you'll never let a woman down again. She has to see you changing in real terms - not words.


You hit it dead on. We talked again, and I told her I'm not leaving the house or going anywhere. We are going to "fake" it through the Holidays. In January, we will begin an in-house separation, co-habitating, but being in different bedrooms, etc. Should she continue to want to separate and not be in this marriage, we will look to sell our house and go our separate ways when our kids are done school (don't want to disrupt them or move them in the middle of the school year.

I am committed to this, no matter how far gone or how deep in the fog she may be. I saw my IC today, and I know what I need to do. It's time I show her the changes in practice, rather than words.

No more talking about it.No more worrying about the OM and whether she's talking to him. FOCUS on me and making my changes, hopefully wake her out of the fog and work on this marriage together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Keesta,

You are making progress. But if I read it correctly this OM is 3000 miles away so if she is talking to him no big deal. Thats all she can do.

But understand, if she is checked out , then in house separation is very difficult for as long as you are talking about because she will no longer consider herself married and you will wind up baby sitting while she dates real live OM in person right in front of you. If you can handle that, fine, but you better be prepared for it. There is a difference between maybe her upstairs in the bedroom talking to OM but it becomes harder watching her primp to go out on a date.

It takes a while in most cases to prepare and actually get a house sold. The sooner you start that the better off you will be. If you get a buyer quickly, you can negotiate renting the house back until kids are out of school. 

I'd think long and hard of not trying to get her out of the house in less than seven months.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Ah. Don't you just love body modification? 

Gastric bypass for a fat woman is like taking a magic pill that makes them desireable. They don't have to do any work to make themselves desireable, they just go in, get the surgery and YAY! guys want them!

Except, the insecurities are still there. Otherwise, why would all that male attention even matter to them? 

The women who I have known who got gastric bypass surgery all left their husbands. The second they got attention from guys that were more attractive than anyone that every paid them any attention before, they dumped the guys who DID love them. 

According to some statistics out there, marriages where one obese person gets bariatric surgery end in divorce within two years for about 80-85% of them. 

And guess what @kesta86 : the husband in every one of those marriages that I saw fall apart had the exact same attitude you do. Their wives hung on because they thought they had no options, and a lousy man was better than no man. The men professed their willingness to change to "get them back". But, that was no change at all. The women already believed that their husbands thought they were sticking it out with them for the same reasons they were. Lack of options. Of course those silly men were going to try to keep them now that they were HOT! but why should they settle that they don't have to?

The only way your wife would even be able to believe that you are capable of changing is if you did something you have NEVER done before. Something so out of character that it literally shocks her and makes her take notice. She will flat out ignore the same old same old, grovely BS. 

Personally, I would expose her affair and divorce her. Tell her that she has decided to be someone that you simply have NO desire to have any association with. Tell her that you wouldn't be caught dead calling someone who betrays her husband like she has a "best friend". 

Tell her that you were obviously wrong about her, that she must never have been such a great and moral person after all. 

Or, keep groveling amd being the "better person". She is pretty hot nowadays, after all, quite the catch. Apparently she was not hot enough for you to listen to her back when you thought you were the best she could get, but hey, you didn't know there was a problem up until a couple weeks ago, right? . So hey, try it. Wait around and see how it works out for you.



If you don't think that she will look back at this at some point and detest her own deception, then you need to wake up. She is headed for an emotional rollercoaster that she has absolutely no experience with, and it will likely not end well for her. If you are serious about changing, then do something other than passively watch your wife become someone that she will detest. 

Stand up and grow a pair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Keesta,
> 
> You are making progress. But if I read it correctly this OM is 3000 miles away so if she is talking to him no big deal. Thats all she can do.
> 
> ...


You make some good points. He is 3000 miles away in CA while we are in MA. I'm just worried that he'll work on her emotionally and pull her even further away than she is right now. While there may currently be nearly no chance of reconciliation, I worry him being involved only decreases the odds. I don't believe it will turn into anything serious with him, and that he is simply a transition affair to her. I guess I will just deal with what comes, focus on making the changes, hope she sees them and recognizes they're genuine and chooses to work on it...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

kesta86 said:


> You make some good points. He is 3000 miles away in CA while we are in MA. I'm just worried that he'll work on her emotionally and pull her even further away than she is right now. While there may currently be nearly no chance of reconciliation, I worry him being involved only decreases the odds. I don't believe it will turn into anything serious with him, and that he is simply a transition affair to her. I guess I will just deal with what comes, focus on making the changes, hope she sees them and recognizes they're genuine and chooses to work on it...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or you can find out what unit he is in and notify his chain of command. Ask his commander what kind of ship they are running, where his soldiers are running around with married women. I can almost guarantee you that he will drop your wife in a heartbeat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

SongoftheSouth said:


> I tend to agree with this. Your head is sideways right now. Let me see if I understand this. You two have been together since the age of 18, married and had kids, she became depressed and then became morbidly obese to the point of needing gastric bypass at the age of 30. You stuck with her, didn't cheat or leave her even though she was probably the size of a small hippopotamus. She gets surgery, loses 150 pounds and then starts an affair with some other dude. Tells you she is unhappy and you didn't meet her needs (whatever the f that means) and now you need to move out. Another way of looking at it is that she was with you when she **************** because she knew that no one in their right mind would be attracted to a whale like her, except you of course because you probably genuinely cared and wanted a family with her. But now that she isn't the size of a small house she can get some other dorks attention and you are not good enough. Man what a deal for you. I have absolutely no idea why you would even consider remaining with her except for the children. Do not move, it will hurt you in support, custody etc. tell her to go if that's her choice. Good luck man.


You forgot to mention the part where she asked him to go to counseling with her for the last three years and he refused. Three years of trying to be taken seriously before she stopped trying. Personally, I would still start divorce proceedings, but it's not like she wasn't trying to tell him something was wrong. He just refused to listen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

kesta86 said:


> You make some good points. He is 3000 miles away in CA while we are in MA. I'm just worried that he'll work on her emotionally and pull her even further away than she is right now. While there may currently be nearly no chance of reconciliation, I worry him being involved only decreases the odds. I don't believe it will turn into anything serious with him, and that he is simply a transition affair to her. I guess I will just deal with what comes, focus on making the changes, hope she sees them and recognizes they're genuine and chooses to work on it...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keesta,

What I was trying to say is as you just stated he is 3000 miles away and he is not your biggest problem right now no matter what he wants ot tries to do. Your biggest problem right now is that you plan to spend the next seven months living in the same house with a woman who will no longer consider herself married and who may start to live the single life in full view of you. I think you will find that very very difficult to accept if she starts to date and you can count on if she has told any of her girlfriends of the situation they will be encouraging her to have fun.

Have you asked or discussed with her any expectations for this in house separation. Or is she planning on living like a nun until the divorce is final. An in house separation where one party ( in this case you) is totally wanting to reconcile and the other is not is the most difficult kind of arrangement imagineable.

The 180 or you making changes should be done for YOU, not her. You are playing the pick me game and that rarely ends well for BH. Right now, she knows and believes that she can do whatever she wants to and you will be sitting there waiting and hoping she will change her mind. So what she has done in betraying you is having no immediate or real consequences since you have in essence given her a seven month period to play with your emotions.

When losing her home and being a part time parent, as you will, hits her in reality, that is your best chance of her realizing she may be making a mistake. But she must believe you are controlling the outcome not her. 

If you are a sports fan, and if you were in a football game, you are playing defense and backpedaling while she drives s down the field. You need to take the ball away ( the initiative) and drive the outcome with you controlling the narrative.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> You forgot to mention the part where she asked him to go to counseling with her for the last three years and he refused. Three years of trying to be taken seriously before she stopped trying. Personally, I would still start divorce proceedings, but it's not like she wasn't trying to tell him something was wrong. He just refused to listen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He also did a great job insulting her and implying that her fat tub of lard self should've been darn he lowered himself to stick around, as her small hippo self shouldn't have expected any more than a guy not leaving. Now that she's smaller be should be rewarded for this.

Nice attitude. Fortunately I think OP is not a jerk like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Keesta,
> 
> What I was trying to say is as you just stated he is 3000 miles away and he is not your biggest problem right now no matter what he wants ot tries to do. Your biggest problem right now is that you plan to spend the next seven months living in the same house with a woman who will no longer consider herself married and who may start to live the single life in full view of you. I think you will find that very very difficult to accept if she starts to date and you can count on if she has told any of her girlfriends of the situation they will be encouraging her to have fun.
> 
> ...


Yes, the expectations are that we will be leading separate lives but in the same house. She is not a psychical or sexual person. She is emotional. I don't think she's going to go out on a bunch of dates and sleep around. If she does, then I'll deal with it then. But right now, I need to let her do what she feels she needs to do, give her space and work on ME. Hopefully she sees the changes, and decides to work on us. I have been controlling the marriage and her for too long. I don't want this separation and she knows where I stand and how I feel. If we get afford it financially I would leave and give her complete space. But for now, an in-house separation is the best we can do. 

I appreciate what everyone is saying and respect their opinions. She has been trying to tell me for 3 years about what she was feeling. Now's the time for me to listen and respect her wishes, since I haven't for so long. It's my best chance for reconciliation at some point. I know it's a long shot and I'll be making these changes for ME and to make ME a better man and husband. Whether it's for her or someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> He also did a great job insulting her and implying that her fat tub of lard self should've been darn he lowered himself to stick around, as her small hippo self shouldn't have expected any more than a guy not leaving. Now that she's smaller be should be rewarded for this.
> 
> Nice attitude. Fortunately I think OP is not a jerk like this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not, and know what I've done and realize my mistakes. I'm going to make changes for ME and if she decides to stick around and see them and reap the benefits, awesome. If not, I'll be a better man for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> I am not defending the OP, he has mountains of ownership in this... but I do strongly feel that treated poorly is not an acceptable reason for engaging in an affair while married. If you are thinking another hidden relationship while married, even if just for sex, file and be done so that the cut is clean and with self-respect.
> 
> An affair is mutual assured destruction of all things self...


I can appreciate your thoughtful reply.....typically I'd get emotional triggering for saying something like this. 

I'm going to be clear that poor treatment doesn't warrant an affair. BUT, I don't think one should be surprised if it happens after a lot of poor treatment.

And what she did is hardly the end of the world.....she talked to some dude on another coast. Hardly meeting at a hotel or planning their future. Not much different from chatting with a cam girl, which I doubt would get a recommendation for all kinds of exposure here.

Then she asked to separate.

Let's just say that if I cut my hb off sexually, does that mean I deserve it if he has an affair? No, but I can hardly be surprised, particularly if he'd made clear how big of an issue it is and I blew it off. 

Then imagine that he decides to go and I start going on about vows. Well I would have essentially broken my vows when I cut him off, so clearly I'd be picking and choosing to suit myself. 

Once you fail to honor your vows your spouse is under no obligation to work on anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

kesta86 said:


> I'm not, and know what I've done and realize my mistakes. I'm going to make changes for ME and if she decides to stick around and see them and reap the benefits, awesome. If not, I'll be a better man for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's good. The other poster was quite nasty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

kesta86 said:


> I'm not, and know what I've done and realize my mistakes. I'm going to make changes for ME and if she decides to stick around and see them and reap the benefits, awesome. If not, I'll be a better man for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


AND you will have a woman with whom you will be happy, and know how to keep around. It may or may not be your wife. 

Just keep this in mind: you get to decide if you are going to be happy or not. Your desire to win your wife back is a very human thing, but it is for entirely selfish reasons. You want her back so that YOU can be happy. The problem is not a moral one. The problem with that is that you are putting your happiness on someone else. You are essentially saying that you refuse to be happy if you can't have her. And if she doesn't treat you in such and such manner.

That's a very human thing to do. Practically everyone on the planet does it. It usually takes a hell of a traumatic experience to realize that happiness is something we always have, should we choose it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I personally tend to put cheaters into two distinct buckets:
> 
> The selfish, entitled pr!cks that have loving, willing spouses but think they're entitled to more, and the ones who were treated poorly by their spouse.
> 
> ...



I see some bending here....by some who thought they never could.

The blacks become grey, then ashen, then dove through misty eyes ............. the whites...walking on eggshells, then tan, never clear again.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> I see some bending here....by some who thought they never could.
> 
> The blacks become grey, then ashen, then dove through misty eyes ............. the whites...walking on eggshells, then tan, never clear again.


Life is seldom black and white.....it's pretty much all shades of beige and grey.

That's as poetic as a nerd like me can get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

@lifeistooshort You are not a nerd.

Expressing the words is one thing........feeling, not words but emphatic sentiment is a better perch to sit on. Enjoy your chair!

The road to maturity is initially paved with highly ground [often painful] sentiment. This is the base. Later it will be paved over with what?

Wisdom and Discernment.

Wise enough to know the difference between willfully and knowingly committing error and simply not having the capacity to prevent error.

The greater capacity is a precarious perch. It is painful to sit on and easy to jump off.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> @lifeistooshort You are not a nerd.
> 
> Expressing the words is one thing........feeling, not words but emphatic sentiment is a better perch to sit on. Enjoy your chair!
> 
> ...


That's sweet of you to say, but I actually am a pretty big nerd.

I'm ok with that.....have made my peace with it. And I work with a bunch of other nerds, so I spend lots of time with my kind.

I'm good at blunt comments as you can probably tell, but I'm not a poet like you. 

It's all good though, poetry isn't required in my line of work. 

A sense of humor is though, and I have lots of that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kesta86 said:


> I am committed to this, no matter how far gone or how deep in the fog she may be. I saw my IC today, and I know what I need to do. It's time I show her the changes in practice, rather than words.
> 
> No more talking about it.No more worrying about the OM and whether she's talking to him. FOCUS on me and making my changes, hopefully wake her out of the fog and work on this marriage together.


No, actually, you're not. If you were, you would be fighting the affair. Telling her parents. Best friend. Asking them to help you by supporting the family, and not her affair fog (explain to them what it means). Showing everyone that you are humble enough to admit your shortcomings and your dedication to fixing your faults in the marriage, but also expecting her not to just walk away after all these years without even trying. Usually, what we tell people is to tell the cheater, after exposure, that if they will go no contact with the affair partner, and they look at fixing the marriage, if she's still wanting to walk after 6 months or so, he will step aside and let her; but just giving in to a whim while she's in the middle of affair fog isn't fair to anyone. If you explain it to her folks and friends that way, you look like an ok guy and they just might support you and tell her to knock it off.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kesta86 said:


> You make some good points. He is 3000 miles away in CA while we are in MA. I'm just worried that he'll work on her emotionally and pull her even further away than she is right now. While there may currently be nearly no chance of reconciliation, I worry him being involved only decreases the odds. I don't believe it will turn into anything serious with him, and that he is simply a transition affair to her. I guess I will just deal with what comes, focus on making the changes, hope she sees them and recognizes they're genuine and chooses to work on it...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is why you expose. And then tell her if she contacts OM again, you will move to divorce and help her find a new place to live. 

At the very least, you should stop paying for her cell phone and internet, if she won't quit contacting him. Show her you're committed, but show some strength, too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kesta86 said:


> But right now, I need to let her do what she feels she needs to do, give her space and work on ME. Hopefully she sees the changes, and decides to work on us. I have been controlling the marriage and her for too long. I don't want this separation and she knows where I stand and how I feel. If we get afford it financially I would leave and give her complete space. But for now, an in-house separation is the best we can do.
> 
> I appreciate what everyone is saying and respect their opinions. She has been trying to tell me for 3 years about what she was feeling. Now's the time for me to listen and respect her wishes, since I haven't for so long. It's my best chance for reconciliation at some point.


Actually, no, it's not. You came here for advice. And you're ignoring the half of it that requires you standing up to her, making her angry. It's advice because it's the best chance of working and because we've seen it work. Your instinct is to back down, beg her to love you again. And we've been trying to tell you that doesn't work. But suit yourself.


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

turnera said:


> Actually, no, it's not. You came here for advice. And you're ignoring the half of it that requires you standing up to her, making her angry. It's advice because it's the best chance of working and because we've seen it work. Your instinct is to back down, beg her to love you again. And we've been trying to tell you that doesn't work. But suit yourself.


Question, and not being disrespectful...how does me, exposing her, going against her wishes, do anything but show her that I'm continuing to disrespect her emotions and feelings, as I've been doing for years? I'm trying to change and be more supportive and emotionally respectful...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

kesta86 said:


> Question, and not being disrespectful...how does me, exposing her, going against her wishes, do anything but show her that I'm continuing to disrespect her emotions and feelings, as I've been doing for years? I'm trying to change and be more supportive and emotionally respectful...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because nothing can be fixed while the affair is ongoing. You are trying the "nice her back" approach which just lowers your status. The only thing they see at this time is the affair.

All marriages have issues, problems but bringing another person into a marriage trumps all issues.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

kesta86 said:


> I'm *going to grow and be* supportive and emotionally respectful *in my life*...


Please allow me to present another perspective without judgement...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Because you - and she, and everyone else - are not taking into account the affair fog. I've asked you to look it up. When someone like your wife starts chumming it up with another man, her brain goes on overdrive. Especially if she's been depressed and ignored and obese and is suddenly attractive. It's like a 14 year old getting to date a high school senior. Her whole life becomes all about that guy. She'd sell her sister to get more time with that guy. She'd steal from her parents and give it to him if he just goes out with her. It's all she can think about.

That's what it's like when someone starts cheating. That's the affair fog. They are a drug addict. They are suddenly getting so high on the allure of the affair that they'll give up family, home, money, husband...just to feel that high again.

So what happens when your kid becomes a drug addict? Do you just say I'm sorry I was a bad dad, we'll just let you have some time to yourself and see if you can get better? No. You take control. You set up guidelines so they can get safe again.

And that's how you explain it to her parents/siblings/friend. She's not herself; she's addicted to the high of the affair; she's not thinking straight; she needs to stop contacting him so she can clear her head of the fog and think straight again. That's all I'm asking - that she stop all contact with OM. And at the end of the school year, if she still wants to divorce, I'll walk away. But this is not an honorable end to our marriage if she won't give him up.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> You make some good points. He is 3000 miles away in CA while we are in MA. I'm just worried that he'll work on her emotionally and pull her even further away than she is right now. While there may currently be nearly no chance of reconciliation, I worry him being involved only decreases the odds. I don't believe it will turn into anything serious with him, and that he is simply a transition affair to her. I guess I will just deal with what comes, focus on making the changes, hope she sees them and recognizes they're genuine and chooses to work on it...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Barf - stop beating yourself up. The problem is not him its your old lady. Get this through your head: 1) she does not love you; 2) she does not respect you; 3) in the future there will be someone else other than him eventually because of 1 and 2. She stayed with you when she was a big fatty because it was convenient and no other person would want her, but maybe now she thinks there are other options better than you. I get it, there are kids involved but what are you going to do? Don't worry if she sees and recognizes whatever changes you think you need to make. Maybe I'm shallow or just because I have been a fitness freak my whole life but why would you want to reconcile with some person that was depressed and obese at age 30 then lost some weight and figured the grass was greener elsewhere? She is probably a step or 2 ahead of you. Seek a family attorney and figure out what you need to do. She has probably already done this herself, that's why she suggested you move out (abandonment).


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## Palodyne (Mar 3, 2016)

kesta86 said:


> Question, and not being disrespectful...how does me, exposing her, going against her wishes, do anything but show her that I'm continuing to disrespect her emotions and feelings, as I've been doing for years? I'm trying to change and be more supportive and emotionally respectful...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 You appear to be co-dependant. If you want to change, then strengthen yourself and stand up for yourself.


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

turnera said:


> Because you - and she, and everyone else - are not taking into account the affair fog. I've asked you to look it up. When someone like your wife starts chumming it up with another man, her brain goes on overdrive. Especially if she's been depressed and ignored and obese and is suddenly attractive. It's like a 14 year old getting to date a high school senior. Her whole life becomes all about that guy. She'd sell her sister to get more time with that guy. She'd steal from her parents and give it to him if he just goes out with her. It's all she can think about.
> 
> That's what it's like when someone starts cheating. That's the affair fog. They are a drug addict. They are suddenly getting so high on the allure of the affair that they'll give up family, home, money, husband...just to feel that high again.
> 
> ...


I did Google it last night. I read this article...What is an Affair Fog and How To Know If Your Spouse is in an Affair Fog - Love Evolve and Thrive and I agree that this is where she is. I accept responsibility for my part, but she is continuing to speak with the OM. Like you said, it's like it a drug and she can't go without her fix...The problem I'm facing is she has told me she is tired of continuing to talk about our relationship. She feels as though I'm badgering her and talking about it daily. How do I get her out of this fog? How do I tell her this is what I think is going on? I don't want to keep talking about it when she has said not too, which would continue to show that I don't respect her emotions or needs? Do I just wait out the fog and hope it goes away? The first thing NOT to do on this list is to expose the affair, so I'm not sure that is the best avenue...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Moderator Warning

*Any further rude remarks about the wife in this thread will not just be deleted. 

The person making such rude remarks will earn themselves a ban.*


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@kesta86

Based on everything you've posted so far, it looks like your wife is involved in an exit affair. It ticks off every characteristic you've described of both your wife (conflict avoidant ) and your marital relationship to date. 

This article https://infidelityrecoveryinstitute.com/affair-types/affair-type-6-exit-affairs/ may help you understand what you are dealing with first hand. 

_Affair Overview:
*The relationship had underlying tension and resentment building up for years (perhaps starting before their wedding)
*They are either unwilling to meet each others needs, or unwilling to talk about meeting each others needs.
*The lack of conflict, is often misinterpreted as a sign “all is fine”
*Leaving the relationship is often surrounded in guilt, however staying in the relationship would be unbearable.
*The relationship with the lover would typically only last as long as the pain of leaving the relationship. The cheater will often spend many years by themselves avoiding commitment and “entrapment.”
exit affair type


This type of affair is usually the outcome of.....a spouse that has been stuck in the marriage for one reason or another and has been waiting for the “right time” to leave.
*The affair is actually initiated years earlier in the mind of the unfaithful spouse, and the marriage relationship is maintained and tolerated by the cheater on the basis of the future plan.
*By the time the cheater is ready to leave, you will often hear them state…
“I’ve toyed with this idea for many years and I finally decided to do it”
*The plan to actually leave the spouse usually comes as a result of the spouses refusal to change, adapt, communicate, or meet some key relationship need in the marriage. The infidel, or future infidel, may try to discuss his or her needs with the spouse, but the spouse doesn’t want to hear or doesn’t want to understand.
*Quite often the infidel will come to a counselor or coach in order to help the spouse in the aftermath and crisis. They wish no harm to their spouse.
*After separating from the spouse, the infidel rarely marries the affair partner. If they do the new marriage will rarely last beyond two years. The lover simply serves as an aid to empower the infidel to leave the pain of the marriage.
*The infidel really wants no commitment, and a new freedom._

Unfortunately for you, this type of affair has the lowest recovery rates of any type of affair. 

_Chance for reconciliation: Highly unlikely _

IMO, your wife is gone. She may be physically present but she no longer shares an emotional bond to you. Those were probably cut long ago. You can use your energy attempting to stop your already gone wife from leaving or you can focus it on lessening the pain of a failed relationship by disconnecting emotionally. The decision is yours to make. 

Learn from your mistakes. Work on improving yourself. Make yourself the best man you can be. These are all things your children and future partner(s) will appreciate.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> Question, and not being disrespectful...how does me, exposing her, going against her wishes, do anything but show her that I'm continuing to disrespect her emotions and feelings, as I've been doing for years? I'm trying to change and be more supportive and emotionally respectful...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you can't compete with her AP. He is all fun, roses and unicorns. She is getting severe doses of feel good chemicals every time she talks to him, kisses him, f him, etc. From you she gets the rest of life's misery.

Exposure will put pressure on her from her peers to end the non-sense. Only chance you have.

Also, you appear weak in backing down, allowing her to date with no consequences, groveling with her to try to talk her into loving you. WEAK. Women hate weak men.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> She feels as though I'm badgering her and talking about it daily. How do I get her out of this fog? How do I tell her this is what I think is going on? I don't want to keep talking about it when she has said not too, which would continue to show that I don't respect her emotions or needs? Do I just wait out the fog and hope it goes away? The first thing NOT to do on this list is to expose the affair, so I'm not sure that is the best avenue...


Exposure is A1, A2 would be to file, A3 is to act like you are planning on living without her. Do the minimum at home, do anything you can legally do to prevent her from time and resources to date the OM, get out of the house and do 'guy stuff'.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kesta86 said:


> The problem I'm facing is she has told me she is tired of continuing to talk about our relationship. She feels as though I'm badgering her and talking about it daily. How do I get her out of this fog? How do I tell her this is what I think is going on? I don't want to keep talking about it when she has said not too, which would continue to show that I don't respect her emotions or needs? Do I just wait out the fog and hope it goes away? The first thing NOT to do on this list is to expose the affair, so I'm not sure that is the best avenue...


So if your teenage daughter was hooked on heroin, would you care if you upset her by cutting her off from the heroin? No, you wouldn't. You'd do what needs to be done, for the good of the family. If your wife had decided to sell off all your furniture because she believed some conman who told her he was delivering a home full of furniture, would you let her continue? No, you'd stop her, for the good of the family.

Your problem, and this is typical of nearly EVERY betrayed husband who comes here, is you're afraid of making her mad. If it were a situation like I described above, you wouldn't think twice about making her mad, you'd just do what your FAMILY needed. But when it comes to a sexual relationship, men usually back down, kiss the woman's ass, and wait, and hope. Which is absolutely the worst thing to do when women cheat. Women are subconsciously drawn to strong men. This POSOM went after her; he's strong; that makes him desirable to her, makes her heart beat fast. You, on the other hand, are now sinking into the woodwork, offering to leave your bed, asking her what she needs to be comfortable (more or less), and that is the LAST thing she wants. 

She wants her men to fight for her; she's high on her desirability and if you just say 'ok, do what you want,' you are no longer in her list of possibilities. It's screwy, but it's the only thing that works with cheating women. 

Now, given your past neglect, it's a little iffy if she'll even care any more, but it's not a given that she's willing to throw everything away just to be away from you. 

The ONLY marriages I've ever seen saved when women cheat are the ones who immediately say "Fine! Get out! Now! If you won't honor your vows, go run to your honey; I'll file for divorce tomorrow."

And I know that's terrifying. I get it. But you've already lost her. What else have you got to lose? At least this way, you still have a CHANCE at staying married. You just have to be willing to risk making her angry. And no, she won't understand why you're 'being so mean.' You just say 'I'm fighting to save my family' and nothing else. To everyone ELSE, you explain why you're doing it and explain the fog and send them links to the stuff. And then you wait and see if fear of repercussions from her family/friends is strong enough to get her to give up OM.

And if you're still too scared to do that, AT LEAST do something so that she can no longer contact OM _in your home_. That's disrespectful and you shouldn't put up with it, and every single time she contacts him in YOUR home, she cares about you a little bit less. Respects you a little bit less. Cancel the phone, cut the internet, or just take her phone from her and carry it outside. If she wants him so badly, she can go outside in the cold and call him like smokers have to do. Can you at least do that?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

:grin2:


lifeistooshort said:


> So from her perspective what exactly is she throwing away?
> 
> A marriage to a guy who didn't think enough of her to pay any mind to the things that bother her as long as he got his?
> 
> ...


You always sound harsh to the guys. It usually turns out they weren't that bad after all and were simply letting someone else guilt them into taking blame via gaslighting. Just like now he's going to hold to a vow she broke. He has no clue yet what really went on or is going on. He's still in cheaters shock. He still wants to be her friend. We've seen this whole thing here a million times and can write it out for him.

If you want an eye opener google women, gastro surgery and divorce.

Unfortunately, with the walk all over me stance being taken, this is going to be one extremely long hard fall.

She lied, she cheated and she's still lying. Get tested for STDs and DNA test your kids.

Consider yourself lucky you are getting out of her horrible path at a young age.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

turnera said:


> So if your teenage daughter was hooked on heroin, would you care if you upset her by cutting her off from the heroin? No, you wouldn't. You'd do what needs to be done, for the good of the family. If your wife had decided to sell off all your furniture because she believed some conman who told her he was delivering a home full of furniture, would you let her continue? No, you'd stop her, for the good of the family.
> 
> Your problem, and this is typical of nearly EVERY betrayed husband who comes here, is you're afraid of making her mad. If it were a situation like I described above, you wouldn't think twice about making her mad, you'd just do what your FAMILY needed. But when it comes to a sexual relationship, men usually back down, kiss the woman's ass, and wait, and hope. Which is absolutely the worst thing to do when women cheat. Women are subconsciously drawn to strong men. This POSOM went after her; he's strong; that makes him desirable to her, makes her heart beat fast. You, on the other hand, are now sinking into the woodwork, offering to leave your bed, asking her what she needs to be comfortable (more or less), and that is the LAST thing she wants.
> 
> ...


Darn good advice, worth repeating. What you are trying to do WILL NOT WORK. What we are suggesting probably won't work because in her mind, she is done with you. But what you are doing IS NOT WORKING, and what we are suggesting is not only the ONLY POSSIBILITY, but the RIGHT THING TO DO for both your wife and yourself. And I personally know how hard it is to take advice that is emotionally the hardest thing you could possibly do. You want to show her how much you love her and care for her----- and that will drive her farther away than slapping her in the face and asking her to leave. REally.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Lila said:


> @kesta86
> 
> Based on everything you've posted so far, it looks like your wife is involved in an exit affair. It ticks off every characteristic you've described of both your wife (conflict avoidant ) and your marital relationship to date.
> 
> ...


Nicely shared Lila... 

I know my approach is often seen as a bit passive for most because it quickly moves to acceptance with honesty, compassion, and boundaries with understanding the true amount of control one has... keys for growth... I just don't believe anymore a sledgehammer is the best tool to place a finishing nail.

He has shared openly and is grounded in my eyes in these last few pages that he knows there are changes he has to make, they are fully for his own attention, he is committed to doing them, and that no matter the outcome of his marriage he needs to do them.

It's not wrong to have some hope. In fact, it is quite essential in many challenges... but it has to be properly placed or we lose focus for what we are trying to gain. The beauty of it is in the recognition of placement... what he leads is self, who know what may follow after that.

He has outlined a plan to maintain calm through the holidays, get the children finished with school, and then accept if all is still where it is while working on the flaws that led him down this road, to let go.

There is a lot of eyes wide open awareness here... 

As for the fog of this affair, all he can do is be that lighthouse that keeps his ship off the rocks, whether or not she ever sees his light in her course... but it's humble and giving that he places it out there in case she ever cares to look for it while his ship is in dry-dock for repair.

Calm in the storm gives patience for the clarity needed to enact the right action, and acceptance for what that right action takes.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SongoftheSouth said:


> Barf - stop beating yourself up. The problem is not him its your old lady. Get this through your head: 1) she does not love you; 2) she does not respect you; 3) in the future there will be someone else other than him eventually because of 1 and 2. She stayed with you when she was a big fatty because it was convenient and no other person would want her, but maybe now she thinks there are other options better than you. I get it, there are kids involved but what are you going to do? Don't worry if she sees and recognizes whatever changes you think you need to make. Maybe I'm shallow or just because I have been a fitness freak my whole life but why would you want to reconcile with some person that was depressed and obese at age 30 then lost some weight and figured the grass was greener elsewhere? She is probably a step or 2 ahead of you. Seek a family attorney and figure out what you need to do. She has probably already done this herself, that's why she suggested you move out (abandonment).



Sing it!
Song, *song of the South*
Sweet potato pie and I shut my mouth
Gone, "Gone with the Wind"
*There ain't Nobody looking back again
*

There ain't Nobody looking back again..... @kesta86 you ain't a Nobody, you be a Somebody. Somebody who deserves better. *SOS is overly harsh*, but at the end of the sharp stick, is correcto-mundo on this point: 

*Move ahead, never looking back.
*

She will be better off, as you were her main course, this unhealthy diet, with you being consumed. She cannot swallow you whole and she is tired of chewing on you.

And you will be better off; better off then trying to balance the justice scale that you both stand on....her on one side...you on the other. You are evenly overweight with baggage.
..................................................................................................
Sweet Potato, I "open" my mouth and sing:

I picture something, it's beautiful
It's full of life, and it is all blue
I see the sunset on the beach, yeah
It makes me feel calm
When I'm calm, I feel good

And when I feel good, I sing
And the joy it brings makes me feel good
And when I feel good, I sing
Of the joy it brings

Jason Mraz - The Freedom Song


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I just have to say it:

You can work the rest of your life at getting your wife back. She's gone now. She chose to leave you for another man. Yes, there is a remote possibility that you may get her back. However, the chance that she will actually love you like she once did----- I think the chances of that are infinitesimal. The best advice here would be to divorce, and move on. But I know that's not what you want to hear. You'd do ANYTHING to avoid that. Yet the fact remains, filing for divorce and acting like a man that can handle whatever comes his way---- that's the best road you can take. You can always cancel a divorce, or remarry. What you're doing is what thousands of divorced men tried and learned the hard way that it just doesn't work---- and that's the thing they live to regret most of all--- they let a cheating, lying, unremorseful spouse destroy their sense of dignity. Don't LET her do that. Go file, sir, and walk away. It's your only hope.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> :grin2:
> 
> You always sound harsh to the guys. It usually turns out they weren't that bad after all and were simply letting someone else guilt them into taking blame via gaslighting. Just like now he's going to hold to a vow she broke. He has no clue yet what really went on or is going on. He's still in cheaters shock. He still wants to be her friend. We've seen this whole thing here a million times and can write it out for him.
> 
> ...


This is a typical TAM hysteria response. The reason I probably sound harsh toward guys is because TAM group think absolves all hb's whose wives bat an eye at another guy and labels said wives.cheating, lying [email protected]

But the reality is often more nuanced, and certainly is in this case.

You've just done it. The woman spoke to a guy on another coast and you've decided OP really wasn't that bad and his wife is evil.

Except you don't know that. But you know what? It doesn't matter if he was "that bad" by your standards....it matters that his wife asked him for counseling and he refused. She's been communicating her unhappiness for years and he ignored her.

What mattered to his wife didn't matter to him. 

It's not even like she said nothing and then met some guy and then came up with reasons he's no good. You might make an argument then. 

I'm sure bypasses do have a high divorce rate. Having known several people who have had one I think the dynamic is often unhealthy, and the change in marital dynamic can be hard on both parties.

If it makes you feel better to convince yourself he couldn't have been that bad then knock yourself out. All you're going to do is convince him that it's all her fault, then he can go treat the next woman the same way. 

Seems to me that for a hb who treats his wife like crap her having some emails with another guy is great because then nothing is his fault.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP's wife has purposefully delivered a nuclear missile to the marriage by giving her emotions to another man, and destroying any emotions she had left for her husband. Due to her guilt, she is going to make OP BELIEVE that his whole marriage as a husband was just atrocious.
What are his crimes? What is he truly guilty of?
Whatever he is guilty of, she is going to increase it in OP's mind with the magnification of the hubble telescope. She has to in order to justify her actions.

Whatever the problem was in their marriage, she blew it up in the end.

Either way, OP's response is to ignore the OM. Yes, the OM is going to reel her emotions in continuously. However, the damage is done on the OM's part-- he's destroyed any emotions the OP's wife had for OP.

It's time to dump the load and move on. If OP is a bad husband, he can improve himself for the next one. The current wife has nothing for OP but contempt and will USE HIM to her advantage as long as possible. What does that say for HER character and HER side of the marriage? She has no respect for her marriage or her husband. 

He's going to bend over and take the shaft. He's said as much. We can't change his mind for him.

However, I truly believe that increasing his guilt for what he has done is not helpful to either OP or his wife. They just need to call it quits. If OP was willing to nuke the marriage legally, and force his wife to choose either the security of marriage or the OM, he might have a chance. He's not. He might as well file now. It's coming either way.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> I just don't believe anymore a sledgehammer is the best tool to place a finishing nail.
> 
> Calm in the storm gives patience for the clarity needed to enact the right action, and acceptance for what that right action takes.


These two sentences STOOD OUT for me.

She is a wounded soul. A finishing nail is apropos. Not a spike.

The hammer? Not a Sledge, not a Jack, not an Air Assisted Brad Driver, no, use a _Tinkers Hammer_. Light taps, minimum pain.

Couples fall out of love. Love turns to disgust, maybe indifference, even to hate.

Divorce happens 50% of the time. You will have plenty of company and any shame of failure will be short-lived. 

In the end, she cheated, she pulled the trigger. She shot you in the azz. 

Reconciliation? No soup for you. Her/this, mystery soup will come back, back up the throat, spewed out of your mouth where all can hear your wishful, but failed hopeful pleas. 

Move on.

Love the Phoenix [re-incarnated], not the Moth [consumed by the Flame].


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> This is a typical TAM hysteria response. The reason I probably sound harsh toward guys is because TAM group think absolves all hb's whose wives bat an eye at another guy and labels said wives.cheating, lying [email protected]
> 
> But the reality is often more nuanced, and certainly is in this case.
> 
> ...


Your post is simply full of assumptions that there is no evidence of especially how bad he treated her. Examples? Because he did not go to counseling? She has anxiety, depression, self control and no doubt other root causes not yet revealed.

As far as the distance goes, the affair started locally, in other words he has no idea how deep this rabbit hole went/goes.

And no, I do not see cheaters as very nuanced just selfish enough to leave a destroyed family in their adulterous wake.

I also don't see group think but common sense and years of shared experience on this site. Your remark also sexist. Cheating is cheating, not gender specific. All cheaters are a$$es.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SunCMars said:


> These two sentences STOOD OUT for me.
> 
> She is a wounded soul. A finishing nail is apropos. Not a spike.


Not sure if you're referring to exposure, but nobody is describing nuclear exposure. I've said repeatedly parents, siblings, and best friend(s). HER close circle. The people she would listen to. This is a close, personal discussion to have with these important people to ask for their support in saving this family. Nothing more.

But he has to be brave enough to do it. 

And frankly, if MY daughter cheated on her husband and her husband didn't tell me, I would be _pissed_. Because once I knew, I would level holy hell on her butt for not living up to the values I taught her.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> If OP was willing to nuke the marriage legally, and force his wife to choose either the security of marriage or the OM, he might have a chance. He's not. He might as well file now. It's coming either way.


This is true... after filing it could be rescinded at any time. This is advice often offered to show many things, acceptance and applied outcome being some, but do not bluff with it... if you do it, understand the ramifications that this may be the final act of marital release for any and all commitments to the union.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Love the Phoenix [re-incarnated], not the Moth [consumed by the Flame].


:smile2:


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

turnera said:


> And frankly, if MY daughter cheated on her husband and her husband didn't tell me, I would be _pissed_. Because once I knew, I would level *holy hell *on her butt for not living up to the values I taught her.


This sent me off the cliff.
.....................................................................................................................................................................
Holy Hell.

These are opposites....never to meet!

Humans are the interface between the two! Only seen by us. Well, some of us.

Lower life cannot see "them"; "those" two states, two choices, two options, or opt out-shuns. 

Ignore both options and be free. Ah, huh. Then, the whip comes from both quarters [from Heaven and Hell].

From both halves comes the scourge of the lash.There are two choices, two options, Heaven and Hell.

Nay I say, there is a third..........sentient Life on Earth [with one eye closed, the other blinking madly]. This makes an uneasy Trinity. 

On Earth, only "we" can have an imperfect choice. Elsewhere? Is there an Elsewhere? Probably.

With this divide between Heaven and Hell; we take the brunt of the divide.....in the shorts!

Choices are hard. And we make those choices, as what?... as an Imperfection, what a deal!

We are blindly pulling the sled containing our DNA. What is wrong with this picture!

Oh , Darwin and Evolution. Evolution will fix us. Evolution is too damn slow. It will be the modern Frankensteins that will correct our flaws. 

Huh? What are the flaws? Who makes the judgement.....sigh and sh1tsky.
...................................................................................................................................................
Safe! I landed in the trees below the cliffs. Need to go home and rub my bruises.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

Ok. So I had that same surgery.

It completely messes with your head.

You are no longer the fat girl, you are someone else. 

It is an eye awakening. Life changing event.

You want to hold on to her? Listen to her. Support her. Love her. 

She is going through death. She is grieving who she was and trying to be who she wants to be.

It is rough. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

I think I posted on here that she had reconnected with the OM on FB...I decided to grow some b**ls and tell her how I was really feeling, instead of feeding her the lines I had been...

I gave her an ultimatum. If she wants to make it through the Holidays for the kids, then she needs to cut off all contact with the OM. After the holidays, if she can't go without contacting him, she can file the papers and leave the house. Same goes if she can't go without contacting him through the holidays. She can file the papers and get out. If she wants to make it through the rest of the school year for the kids, she needs to cut off contact with him through June. Once we are in our own places, she can do as she pleases...If she decides to lie and contact him behind my back during either of these times and I find out, I will file At Fault divorce papers for Adultery...I can't have her continuing to build a relationship, despite it not being physical, while in OUR house, on OUR couch with me in the house. Whether we are separated during this time in her mind or not. I won't do it and I won't be the one leaving.

If she decides to go to therapy with me during this time, awesome. It may result in the same outcome, us going our separate ways in June, but at least we can talk through things...I told her she has a couple of days to decide what she wants to do, but the ball is in her court now. She's the one that wants to separate and she's the one that doesn't want to be in this marriage, so she needs to figure out what she wants to do.

I will accept fault for what I did to drive her to where she is...But I didn't deserve to be cheated on. If she wanted to leave, she should've just filed the papers and left. She didn't and she needs to deal with the consequences. I won't continue to be cheated on in our house while I sit there, enabling it.

I'll keep everyone updated with how it goes...Thanks for all the advice...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

kesta86 said:


> I think I posted on here that she had reconnected with the OM on FB...I decided to grow some b**ls and tell her how I was really feeling, instead of feeding her the lines I had been...
> 
> I gave her an ultimatum. If she wants to make it through the Holidays for the kids, then she needs to cut off all contact with the OM. After the holidays, if she can't go without contacting him, she can file the papers and leave the house. Same goes if she can't go without contacting him through the holidays. She can file the papers and get out. If she wants to make it through the rest of the school year for the kids, she needs to cut off contact with him through June. Once we are in our own places, she can do as she pleases...If she decides to lie and contact him behind my back during either of these times and I find out, I will file At Fault divorce papers for Adultery...I can't have her continuing to build a relationship, despite it not being physical, while in OUR house, on OUR couch with me in the house. Whether we are separated during this time in her mind or not. I won't do it and I won't be the one leaving.
> 
> ...



Keesta,

Bravo!!!! Now get to an attorney and have the papers prepared. She will not maintain NC and you know that. You have stated your expectations but until she believes you they mean nothing. 

You did not state her reaction. But nice job.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

There you go. Did you apologize for your faults leading up to the emotional affair; for ignoring her pleads to go to counseling?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

kesta86 said:


> If she decides to go to therapy with me during this time, awesome. It may result in the same outcome, us going our separate ways in June, but at least we can talk through things...I told her she has a couple of days to decide what she wants to do, but the ball is in her court now. She's the one that wants to separate and she's the one that doesn't want to be in this marriage, so she needs to figure out what she wants to do.
> 
> I will accept fault for what I did to drive her to where she is...But I didn't deserve to be cheated on. If she wanted to leave, she should've just filed the papers and left. She didn't and she needs to deal with the consequences. I won't continue to be cheated on in our house while I sit there, enabling it.


Mindful...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> I think I posted on here that she had reconnected with the OM on FB...I decided to grow some b**ls and tell her how I was really feeling, instead of feeding her the lines I had been...
> 
> I gave her an ultimatum. If she wants to make it through the Holidays for the kids, then she needs to cut off all contact with the OM. After the holidays, if she can't go without contacting him, she can file the papers and leave the house. Same goes if she can't go without contacting him through the holidays. She can file the papers and get out. If she wants to make it through the rest of the school year for the kids, she needs to cut off contact with him through June. Once we are in our own places, she can do as she pleases...If she decides to lie and contact him behind my back during either of these times and I find out, I will file At Fault divorce papers for Adultery...I can't have her continuing to build a relationship, despite it not being physical, while in OUR house, on OUR couch with me in the house. Whether we are separated during this time in her mind or not. I won't do it and I won't be the one leaving.
> 
> ...


Finally.

Own it like a boss.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Looks like you are now on the right track but don't threaten all this and not follow through, do go see that lawyer.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

kesta86 said:


> Because I vowed to be with her no matter what. Sickness, health, good, bad, everything. I will be the better person and honor those vows. She broke them when she cheated and she's breaking them by wanting separation. I will not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then you are being hardheaded and a fool. She has already broken the marriage contract. 

She is leaving. 

The home is being sold. 

You need to start worrying about your kids. 

Your cheating wife is already gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

becareful2 said:


> There you go. Did you apologize for your faults leading up to the emotional affair; for ignoring her pleads to go to counseling?


There you go. Justifying an affair. No genius, she could have divorced him if he was a ****ty husband. But your answer? Just have an affair and its just all OK.

OP, I hope you take that for what its worth.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

kesta86 said:


> Question, and not being disrespectful...how does me, exposing her, going against her wishes, do anything but show her that I'm continuing to disrespect her emotions and feelings, as I've been doing for years? I'm trying to change and be more supportive and emotionally respectful...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because you have two separate issues. 

First, you neglected your wife for so long that she is no longer in love with you.

Second, she cheated. 

She started that affair after a 30 min talk with the OM. You think it's not going to happen again? The only way to keep her from continuing the current one or starting an other is to expose what she did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## txcouple903 (Sep 29, 2012)

That's the right thing to do. I was with my ex wife 12 years and enabling her to cheat. We are both attractive people so that wasn't the problem. We had sex problems but that was because she wanted power over me. Overall I look back and see we had an ok sex life. The day before I kicked her out we had some amazing sex. So I don't think that is why we divorced.

She had clinical depression problems and anxiety disorder too. For years she wouldn't go to therapy even though I begged her. In fact I did everything I could to meet her needs. I literally bent over to meet her needs constantly. I was always concerned with what she wanted. I constantly told her she was beautiful and that she meant the world to me. We always did things together. Yet somehow I wasn't doing what I needed. Somehow I missed something. She would always say I could write a book about all the problems.

Looking back I see that I spoiled her. I bought her clothes regularly, lingerie, I took pictures of her often and I put her on a pedestal. I paid spacial attention to her emotional needs. I was always doing things to make her feel better. I told her I loved her multiple times a day. If she didn't want to have full sex I would please her and not get anything from her. She was my Honey Bun and I was her Reese's Pieces. We told each other we loved each other often. Even after we separated and she had a boyfriend. I sure thought she loved me. Yeah she had cycles she would go through with things got bad. I thought it was the depression. It seemed like it and I posted about it to get help. The best advice I got was to divorce.

I allowed her to have two affairs with the same guy twice. It didn't stop till he dumped her for good. I tried for many years to get counseling not only for her but for me and us together. We only want to a marriage therapist once. We had meetings with a preacher before we got married. I was reluctant to marry because she had cheated before. We both cheated and I admit I cheated trying to get her back but that all happened the first year we met and we were young. I grew out of it and I figured she would too and I was wrong. 

Our mutual friends said they never saw it coming. I did notice she doesn't have friends long. The friends she had during our separation aren't her friends anymore and The friends she had during our divorce she doesn't have anymore. In fact I don't know what kinda people she hangs with. Her boyfriend is the worst type you can get. I just recently found out he used to do drugs. He seems to be unstable. His ex wife tried to reach out to my ex wife to I guess want her but she couldn't get in contact with her so she found me. I don't know how she found me though. 

The point is if she isn't going to stop talking to the OM she isn't going to work on your marriage. Been there done that and it doesn't work. If not him someone else. The only difference I had is my ex wouldn't leave me. She always said it was over after things fell apart. I would say there were maybe 7 good years spaced out which is probably why I stayed so long. I loved her and still do love her deeply but I had to move on. 

I just recently found out her boyfriend was against her leaving me because he wanted her to have more money. I don't have full details because my daughters was hiding in the closet when she heard them talking about it. I don't push them for details because one is 7 and the other is 11. As much as I try my oldest has this incredible anger towards her and her boyfriend. All 3 have it but here is the strongest. She has to understand that THERE WILL BE ISSUED FOR YOUR CHILDREN. You family will be torn apart if she doesn't see that. You can lessen the damage but you can't stop it. Hopefully she is good about it (Mine gave me hell and still is)

My kids still hold out hope she will come home and I try very hard not to crush that. I explain to them that it probably won't happen but I don't know the future. They get mad at me if I say never because their mother says that and they say only God knows the future which they are right. They say they see things in her that makes them have hope. I don't see it happening. I'm single by choice because if I do get married again I don't want to make the same mistakes. I still say she is a good person because she was for many years. She just has a problem making the wrong choices in life. She has had a rough time since I kicked her out but it's not like we have had it easy either. She hasn't seen her children much in the last year and six months she has been gone. She lost her truck last year (which I paid for with my down payment money). She got bumped down from being a manager and recently lost her job (she quit). Her boyfriend lost his job (he got fired) and they lost their apartment. He isn't that great anyway from what his ex tells me. They both are behind on child support and now live further away. She can't see her children when she wants to and doesn't call or text them. Believe me the line is open but no one is trying to reach them. They don't call her because we only have his number and they know she had a phone. He doesn't want her talking to her children when they are not there and he doesn't want her talking to me for co-parenting. 

Also don't be her friend. My ex tried to goat me into that. She wanted me her and her boyfriend to sit down and talk. Been there done that and it's garbage. It's just a way to put the OM in your face. 

Basically what I'm saying is don't let it get to the point where it's like my situation. It's miserable on both me and the kids. My toughest problem has been dealing with the emotional damage to my children. I try to be the best dad I can be to them. We saw this coming a few months before because she has left before and that ended badly. I shouldn't have taken her back then because she hadn't changed. She got back in because I was her friend and that was the wrong the thing to be at the time.

I know it hurts really bad but don't do what I did. Let her leave. I don't think you treated her that bad but she had the view point you did. I know I listened to my ex wife every single time there was a problem and it didn't save our marriage. Maybe that was because she is easily influenced I don't know. I have been through the therapy with and without her. My therapist that has seen us both said there are things wrong with her that a divorce won't help. He flat out told me recently that he only thinks she did well for so long was because of my hard headedness to leave. He doesn't think any relationship she has will last because she isn't dealing with the root cause of her problems and no person can fix that for her. No new boyfriend or husband will change that for her. She will keep making the mistakes unless she makes a choice to change. She has to choose YOU, which means choosing her family over the OM. You may be a good guy or you might not be but you admit you made mistakes. You want to change yourself and that's the right choice, not for her but you. I don't hold not going to therapy against you because I don't think it would have helped. She sounds like she made up her mind long before she wanted you to go to therapy with her. The therapy was for her and if her depression was caused by you in her mind she should have told you. Did she have depression before she met you? Mine did.

I don't know about the overweight aspect. I am fairly in shape and my ex liked me the way I was. I work out more now but it's because it helps me relax. You don't sound like an a$$ho!3. You loved her before and after her surgery which is why I don't hold you not going to therapy with her against you. You loved her for her and who she was. Just like me you loved all her faults. I don't see how she could have wanted more. Marriage is about compromising. It doesn't mean getting everything you wanted but getting some of the things you wanted. I read the book Her needs His needs (I think that's the name) I did a lot of those things recommended in that book before we got where we were. She didn't think it would help because she had given up. She blamed me multiple times for her cheating and blames me for being with her current boyfriend. She said I basically ran her into his arms when I kicked her out not even acknowledging that she was having an emotional affair with her boss at the time.

Every single time she cheated it was my fault in some way or form. Even though I did everything I possibly could to meet her needs. I do say I'm responsible for my own part because no divorce is one sided. I am to blame for my part. She didn't respect me because she got no negative consequences for cheating so many times. I blamed it on her depression and enabled her to get bolder and bolder. She made it my fault because I wasn't fighting hard enough and at the same time forcing my hands to be tied. Love was thrown in my face, loosing my children was thrown in my face, and finally she claimed my love was "so called love" and I didn't really love her. That was what pushed me over the edge now that I think about it. So I left and didn't look back.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Preeminently late to the party, but your W seems to have become a head case since her surgery of enhancement!

It obviously paid off dividends, but not for her H. Her decision to cheat was a unilateral, covert one, because some equally unfaithful, self-serving lout made eye candy out of her and she fastly reciprocated!

As her H and life's partner, you weren't ever consulted or given due consideration! Since the positivity of her surgery, you've been effectively relegated to being placed in the role of her "Dad," while her loyalties now go to some OM who couldn't give a tinkers damn about your welfare or that of your family!

While it's rather apparent that she developed a fast EA with this guy, I would not bet a plug nickel that this affair was taken to the physical level!

Having said that, it's well past time for "the 180," and seeing a good lawyer to appraise you of your many legal rights and responsibilities! Also get yourself checked out by your MD for the presence of any STD's!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xxxSHxYZxxx (Apr 1, 2013)

kesta86 said:


> First time on this site, so let me give you all some background...
> 
> My wife and I have been together since we were 18. We met in June of 2005 and found out we were pregnant with our daughter in October. She was born in July of 2006 and we were married in May of 2007. I don't think we were madly in love at first, but over time, we both fell in love. We were blessed with a son in April of 2009 and things had been great...or so I thought...
> 
> ...


My 2 cents. There's nothing you can do. She's made her mind up and the more you try to convince her to stay the less likely it will be. You need to focus on you and the kids because she will continue to be selfish. You should refuse to leave the house. If she wants to be separated she needs to leave. You are not the one breaking up the house so you should not be forced to suffer even more. My father and I shared similar experiences with divorce. We both did the trial separation thing and it was used against us when it came down to custody. 

If there is one thing I would suggest is DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. It would be different if you wanted to be separated. Your wife wants you out of her hair so that she can act like she's single. I wouldn't doubt she's thought about going out to California to visit that scum bag and being separated will make it ok in her mind. 

DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. SHE WANTS TO BE SEPARATED SO SHE NEEDS TO LEAVE. and don't listen to any bull**** about how the kids need her in the house. You have been helping to rase your kids since they were born and you are just as important of a parent as she is. She's the one that wants to break up the family so she needs to go. If she wants to work it out then she can come back to the loving home that you have built together 

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## xxxSHxYZxxx (Apr 1, 2013)

GuyInColorado said:


> Make her move out if she wants a trial run. Get your ducks in row, cancel all shared credit cards. Get the bulk of your cash out of accounts that she can easily deplete. If she wants to be single, then give her a preview of how life will be without you.
> 
> Start hitting the gym 5x a week lifting heavy, eating healthy, and drinking only water. Keep going to IC. Time to work on yourself, making you the best you've ever been. You can't change how she feels. Sounds like she checked out a while ago and isn't coming back.


For sho. Start protecting yourself.trust me it hurts so bad but you can recover emotionally but she could reck you financially. Draft up a separation agreement outlining who owes what debt. You can use it to you advantage if you do not reconcile. Do not make hasty dissisions when you doing it. Take time to think everything out clearly and not emotionally. And most importantly don't make any dissisions just to make her happy. 

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## xxxSHxYZxxx (Apr 1, 2013)

kesta86 said:


> She has already told me she has cut off communication with the OM and that it wasn't about him specifically. It was about the feeling she had with him and that she didn't have that with me and hadn't for a long time. It gave her the confidence to speak up and finally say she was done. I feel so stupid that I was so blind and deaf for so long.
> 
> An in-house separation is on the table. I said I would sleep in the basement while we figure out how to sell our home, etc. I just don't know that it's going to help or that she is going to be willing to give it another try, regardless. I guess all I can do is stop acting like a lost puppy, stop following her around or trying to win her back. I need to make changes and do it for me, while hoping she realizes what she's doing. This sucks....


Why should you sleep in the basement? She wants the separation why should she get to be comfortable?

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## txcouple903 (Sep 29, 2012)

Arbitrator and xxxSHxYZxxx are exactly right and said it better.

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## xxxSHxYZxxx (Apr 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Finally.
> 
> Own it like a boss.


It took me a couple of months to come to this same point when I was in your situation. Good for you. 

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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

kesta86 said:


> I think I posted on here that she had reconnected with the OM on FB...I decided to grow some b**ls and tell her how I was really feeling, instead of feeding her the lines I had been...
> 
> I gave her an ultimatum. If she wants to make it through the Holidays for the kids, then she needs to cut off all contact with the OM. After the holidays, if she can't go without contacting him, she can file the papers and leave the house. Same goes if she can't go without contacting him through the holidays. She can file the papers and get out. If she wants to make it through the rest of the school year for the kids, she needs to cut off contact with him through June. Once we are in our own places, she can do as she pleases...If she decides to lie and contact him behind my back during either of these times and I find out, I will file At Fault divorce papers for Adultery...I can't have her continuing to build a relationship, despite it not being physical, while in OUR house, on OUR couch with me in the house. Whether we are separated during this time in her mind or not. I won't do it and I won't be the one leaving.
> 
> ...


You did great, this is exactly what you needed to do!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

aine said:


> Sorry you are here but it is not as if you didnt have a part to play. She should not have cheated but she was trying to get your attention, you even admit it and want to back track when the chips are down. This is something I can never understand about guys. The wife tells them over and over the marriage is in trouble but they prefer to stick their head in the sand.
> 
> Read this Walk Away Women and The Devastated Men Who Love Them | YourTango
> 
> ...


My wife had a habit of complaining about me to get friends.

Eventually she was told by her best friend that she was full of it and that I was nowhere near as bad as she said.

So sometimes the complaints are not valid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xxxSHxYZxxx (Apr 1, 2013)

Bull****. People don't cheat to get someone else's attention. Cheating a selfish act and nothing else. Everything else I completely agree with.

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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think it's quite reasonable to tell her she's not going to carry on with someone else while living with you. 

That's the problem with an in house separation.....it's going to be difficult to control that. And what is the purpose of said separation? If it's not to reconcile it might be tough to enforce not talking to others.

And eventually you might detach and meet someone. 

So either you're both in or you're not.

I think she's done, but maybe she'll change her mind. 

Just be careful throwing around the vows argument because it's self serving. You didn't uphold yours either, so to try to use them to manipulate her back into the marriage is phony and self serving, and it's not going to get you the loving wife you want. 

But your attitude of i own my part in getting her here but I'm not going to exist in the same house while she talks to other men is very reasonable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

She was a bit taken aback. Wanted to know where this came from. I told it's what I should've said from the beginning, but I was scared and an emotional wreck. She's the one who cheated. If she wanted out so bad, she should've just filed the papers and left. She didn't and she needs to own it. I think she gets it now. She wants to separate, break up our family and leave me without trying, that's her prerogative. But I won't let her continue to cheat with the OM while we are both in our house. I don't care how much she tells me it's not about him...if it wasn't about him, she wouldn't have refriended him on FB and continued conversations. Balls in her court now...cut it off and make it through the Holidays/school year and still separate, continue to talk to him and leave OUR house immediately, or go to therapy and work through our issues. Therapy may lead to the same result of us separating, but I won't have her talking to the OM while we are in the same house. I own what I did to put us here, and I'm going to therapy and working on them. Up to her if she decides to work with me or leave..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good job. Be wary of the guilting. It will fast and furious. How could you do this? You can't love me if you could do this to me. Do NOT get into it with her. She's just trying to regain control. Refuse to discuss it. Simply say "I'm owning my problems, you should too."

Have you read Lonely Husband 42301's thread? It's the best definition of success I've seen on here. He did the hard line thread, he removed himself from her, and she came running. Today, they're the biggest example of a couple in love I've seen.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> This is a typical TAM hysteria response. The reason I probably sound harsh toward guys is because TAM group think absolves all hb's whose wives bat an eye at another guy and labels said wives.cheating, lying [email protected]
> 
> 
> Seems to me that for a hb who treats his wife like crap her having some emails with another guy is great because then nothing is his fault.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You left some crucial facts out of erstwhile [hillary's] emails.

She sent him personal pictures, he sent d!ck pics, back.

Emails, pictures, phone sex took this to the dark side of POSOM's backside Moon.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> There you go. Justifying an affair. No genius, she could have divorced him if he was a ****ty husband. But your answer? Just have an affair and its just all OK.
> 
> OP, I hope you take that for what its worth.


I am not justifying her affair but he hasn't been tending to their marriage for three years, so he owns his part leading up to her affair.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> She was a bit taken aback. Wanted to know where this came from. I told it's what I should've said from the beginning, but I was scared and an emotional wreck. She's the one who cheated. If she wanted out so bad, she should've just filed the papers and left. She didn't and she needs to own it. I think she gets it now. She wants to separate, break up our family and leave me without trying, that's her prerogative. But I won't let her continue to cheat with the OM while we are both in our house. I don't care how much she tells me it's not about him...if it wasn't about him, she wouldn't have refriended him on FB and continued conversations. Balls in her court now...cut it off and make it through the Holidays/school year and still separate, continue to talk to him and leave OUR house immediately, or go to therapy and work through our issues. Therapy may lead to the same result of us separating, but I won't have her talking to the OM while we are in the same house. I own what I did to put us here, and I'm going to therapy and working on them. Up to her if she decides to work with me or leave..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well done.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

becareful2 said:


> I am not justifying her affair but he hasn't been tending to their marriage for three years, so he owns his part leading up to her affair.


He owns 50% of the problems . She owns the affair 100%

He was in the same ****ty marriage and did not cheat . You continue to want to make excuses for
Her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

straightshooter said:


> He owns 50% of the problems . She owns the affair 100%
> 
> He was in the same ****ty marriage and did not cheat . You continue to want to make excuses for
> Her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cheating aside, he apparently doesn't didn't think the marriage was so sh!tty. He seemed to be just fine with it, particularly when she shut up and stopped pestering him to tend to her needs.

He only became devastated once she told him she wanted out.

So we can assume the marriage worked for him. He hasn't said that he was unhappy, only that she communicated her unhappiness and he had no interest in dealing with it.

Have I missed where he said he was also unhappy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Cheating aside, he apparently doesn't didn't think the marriage was so sh!tty. He seemed to be just fine with it, particularly when she shut up and stopped pestering him to tend to her needs.
> 
> He only became devastated once she told him she wanted out.
> 
> ...


Cheating aside??? Really?? So I guess you think he should just suck it up and it's just fine she decided to express her unhappiness by climbing in bed with another man? 
There is no "cheating aside". It's called adultsry and a few of you seem to think it's a satisfactory remedy for not liking your marriage. 

I'll bet that's comforting to OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

straightshooter said:


> Cheating aside??? Really?? So I guess you think he should just suck it up and it's just fine she decided to express her unhappiness by climbing in bed with another man?
> There is no "cheating aside". It's called adultsry and a few of you seem to think it's a satisfactory remedy for not liking your marriage.
> 
> I'll bet that's comforting to OP.
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

straightshooter said:


> He owns 50% of the problems . She owns the affair 100%
> 
> He was in the same ****ty marriage and did not cheat .


Of course he didn't. He was getting all his needs met. His marriage seemed GREAT to him.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> He owns 50% of the problems . She owns the affair 100%
> 
> He was in the same ****ty marriage and did not cheat . You continue to want to make excuses for
> Her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Show me where I made any excuses for her. Did I not say that even though he was a crappy husband, that it still didn't give her the right to cheat?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Those of us bringing up the state of the marriage do so for a reason. So that if they do end up together, he'll be full aware of what needs to happen in this marriage going forward. Assuming she's fully contrite and deserves a second chance.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> straightshooter said:
> 
> 
> > Cheating aside??? Really?? So I guess you think he should just suck it up and it's just fine she decided to express her unhappiness by climbing in bed with another man?
> ...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

OP just keep doing what you are doing. If she comes back to the marriage and wants to give it a second chance, then you can address the marital issues and your deficiencies later. Right now, protect yourself and stand your ground. You can acknowledge your faults, but not allow them to cloud what is happening at this moment. She is openly disrespecting you and that needs to stop or she need to leave.


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

She meets with her IC tonight, and I told her she needs to tell me what she plans to do after their meeting. All indications are that she will NOT leave the house. Therefore, she will be cutting off all contact with the OM. I will monitor the phone bill and FB/email until I can rebuild my trust with her...If she wants to stay in the house, then that is the deal...If at any point I determine they have been in contact, then she will have papers served and her stuff will be on the front porch...

I personally hope she decides to attend MC together, whether we end up separating in June or not. I think it would be beneficial to air everything out and be on the same page going forward. Like I've said, I accept all responsibility for my faults and for my part in us being where we are. She needs to do the same and we need to work together to either fix our marriage and be better because of all this, or to make our separation as amicable as possible.

I'll keep you updated after we talk tonight...


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## xxxSHxYZxxx (Apr 1, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> lifeistooshort said:
> 
> 
> > I like both of your arguments [@straightshooter, @lifeistooshort].
> ...


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

kesta86 said:


> She meets with her IC tonight, and I told her she needs to tell me what she plans to do after their meeting. All indications are that she will NOT leave the house. Therefore, she will be cutting off all contact with the OM. I will monitor the phone bill and FB/email until I can rebuild my trust with her...If she wants to stay in the house, then that is the deal...If at any point I determine they have been in contact, then she will have papers served and her stuff will be on the front porch...
> 
> I personally hope she decides to attend MC together, whether we end up separating in June or not. I think it would be beneficial to air everything out and be on the same page going forward. Like I've said, I accept all responsibility for my faults and for my part in us being where we are. She needs to do the same and we need to work together to either fix our marriage and be better because of all this, or to make our separation as amicable as possible.
> 
> I'll keep you updated after we talk tonight...


Speaking as a lawyer here. Like most married couples your house is probably jointly owned. You can't just put her stuff on the front porch and kick her out. Nor could she do the same to you. Seek good legal counsel before you do anything. You could be putting yourself in very hot water.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

xxxSHxYZxxx said:


> SunCMars said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like someone had a few special brownies
> ...


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

kesta86 said:


> She was a bit taken aback. Wanted to know where this came from. I told it's what I should've said from the beginning, but I was scared and an emotional wreck. She's the one who cheated. If she wanted out so bad, she should've just filed the papers and left. She didn't and she needs to own it. I think she gets it now. She wants to separate, break up our family and leave me without trying, that's her prerogative. But I won't let her continue to cheat with the OM while we are both in our house. I don't care how much she tells me it's not about him...if it wasn't about him, she wouldn't have refriended him on FB and continued conversations. Balls in her court now...cut it off and make it through the Holidays/school year and still separate, continue to talk to him and leave OUR house immediately, or go to therapy and work through our issues. Therapy may lead to the same result of us separating, but I won't have her talking to the OM while we are in the same house. I own what I did to put us here, and I'm going to therapy and working on them. Up to her if she decides to work with me or leave..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Continue on this course.


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## JrzyGrl (Sep 1, 2016)

OP, your wife can talk to whom ever she wants to. You can't control her. You can't claim adultery because she talks to another man. She doesn't have to leave the house until it is sold. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

JrzyGrl said:


> OP, your wife can talk to whom ever she wants to. You can't control her. You can't claim adultery because she talks to another man. She doesn't have to leave the house until it is sold.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, this true.

And ~5000 years of civilization have brought us to this point.

Ain't it sweet?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

@kesta86, how are things going?


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## kesta86 (Nov 16, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> @kesta86, how are things going?


I told her she had until Tuesday to let me know what she decided...She unfriended him on FB on Monday afternoon and told me she wouldn't be speaking with him anymore...However, on Thursday (Thanksgiving day), we were sitting around after dinner and she happened to open her phone in front of me. She obviously forgot that she had left her web browser open on the phone and it was opened to a gmail account. I know she doesn't have a gmail account, and I saw emails between her and the OM...I couldn't see dates before she quickly closed the page...She tells me that they were all from before Monday, and I can't disprove it...She has promised to stop talking to him, at least until we figure everything out and officially separate/sell the house, etc. I find it nearly impossible to trust her when it comes to him. While there has been no physical relationship between them (He is in San Diego), she has admitted to talking about being together with him and sending pictures...

This week we both decided we needed space and to be away from each other. I've found it nearly impossible to not want to touch, hug, kiss her, etc. since this all started on 11/4...She asked for space then and I couldn't give it...It's been a month from hell and we both need to step back, rethink, reset and reassess. I'm staying at a friends house this week and we will "reconvene" on Friday night to see where we both stand...As of our last conversation (Sunday), the plan was to "fake" it through Christmas, talk logistics and everything in January (begin an in-house separation), inform parents, family, etc., and then look to begin the sale of the house, etc. She would be staying in the basement bedroom until everything is sorted out.

I still want to try and work this out...I still have that glimmer of hope. I'm hoping this week apart with ZERO contact (text, phone, face to face, etc.) will wake her out of this fog and make her realize what she's doing. Yes, she has disrespected me by "messing" around with the OM. Yes, she's lied about things. I can't change what has happened. The past is the past. I can only look forward, hope that she is open to my changes and hope that she is willing to work through all of this and come out better at the end of it. If she's not willing, then so be it. I can't force her to try. I just know that I love her unconditionally and despite what she's put us through these past 4 weeks, that hasn't changed. If she really wanted to leave so badly, she should've just filed the papers and been done with it. Instead, she chose to cheat and has created this mess of uncertainty, confusing, shock, and disbelief. 

I will update you all after this weekend when we figure out where we all stand...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You still want to work it out? Then expose the cheating to her VIPs.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why? The affair is still ongoing.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Dude, rip the band-aid off, quit pulling a little bit at a time.

Move out, or make her move out. Get it all drawn up in a separation agreement.

Go out, get a tickets to the theatre - go see a Christmas Carol, or something like that. Go alone if you have to, check in on facebook.

Things will change very very quickly. She'll ask who you went with. You'll reply with "none of you're f'n business". Make her worry about what's going on in your world. If she doesn't, then there wasn't anything worth saving in the first place.

The only way this ends well for you, is if you kick her to the curb and let everyone know why. The only chance you have to be happy together, is for her to own her stuff here (as will you) and that isn't happening now. It's all your issues.

Think about it like you're in a snowball fight with a kid. Eventually, you need to make 2 snowballs, lob one high in the air and let them stare at it, while you take the second one and smoke them upside the head with it and remind them they're paying attention to the wrong thing.

You need to become that second snowball.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Why didn't you ask her to show you her phone, open the Gmail, right then and there?

Stop being afraid.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Satya said:


> Why didn't you ask her to show you her phone, open the Gmail, right then and there?
> 
> Stop being afraid.


Yep, this. She is continuing contact, even going so far as to create a new email account. You can bet that during this time you've been apart, she has been in constant contact with him. If your in house separation is conditional on her having no contact with him, she needs to be 100% transparent with you. You need access to her phone at all times, her emails, Facebook and any other social media, bank accounts...all of it. Change in passcode on the phone, or on any other account, is grounds for immediate eviction from your home. I know you think you love her, but DO NOT TOLERATE this disrespect.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP, you are experiencing "hysterical bonding". I know, because I did. And it is EXCRUCIATINGLY painful. You are holding on to that "glimmer of hope", and to be honest, that is your worst enemy.

ONLY when you ACCEPT that your wife doesn't love you anymore and there's nothing you can do about it, and that you MUST move on, will you begin to heal from this.

There is nothing that you, ESPECIALLY YOU, can do to make your wife fall in love with you again. This single worst possible thing you can do right now is the hysterical bonding thing. It will literally REPULSE her. IT did mine. They hate that crap, and the pressure will drive them away. But stop caring whether it does or not. I know it's hard. I know this is soul crushing and you don't want to wake up to the nightmare every morning. But as soon as you accept that your life is going to change, and embrace that change, you will start feeling better. 

That's the goal I have for you, to start feeling better instead of being totally miserable. Nobody should have to endure the kind of pain you're feeling. I hope you accept she's gone soon. I know it took me several months, and they were the worst months of my entire life. I lost 35 lbs. in 2 months from not eating--- because I didn't want to eat. I was just crushed. 
You probably think your life is just f'd now. I promise you it isn't. Your life will be fine when you release your feelings for her and move forward. There are lots and lots of other women. You will find one that loves you and respects you. Don't be afraid of the future. It's going to get better---once you accept what's happened and that there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Please, don't chase her. Move on in your mind. She's still cheating, you know she is, and she's NOT going to stop just because she should or because you want her to. And logic will not phase her. NOthing you can say or do will change the fact that she is screwed up in the head by this guy. ANything you try will be thought of by her as you trying to control her. You can't nice her back, you can't logic her back, you can't un-nice her back. She is not coming back mentally, and that's what you want. You can't have it. Accept it. You will be happy again.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

How goes it Kesta?


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## Richi300 (Aug 11, 2016)

First I want to say I'm sorry your going through this. It's not right your kids are in the middle of this mess too. I can understand the fear and the uncertainty of your future. I've been through the same feelings when my wife wanted a separation. At that time she also wanted to pursue a guy that eventually got her pregnant. I'm not saying that will be your situation but as hard as it is for me to say this. Your kids are the only thing you need to worry about right now. Your wife is being selfish and there is nothing you can do at all about it. Unfortunately she's not going to listen to reason because she's blinded being lead by temporary feelings. I know its hard... believe me. This will probably be the biggest mountain you will ever have to climb but your going to have to let her drown herself. Because she will end up hanging herself once she sees the grass wasn't greener. Again, there's nothing you can do to stop her. At this point all you can do is stay strong for your children. Don't let her see that her actions are effecting you. The saying if you love them let them go or whatever...that statement is so true. Because if she comes back you have all the options in the world. Whether you want to work it out or want to end it....it'll be up to you if she makes her way back. I tried stopping my wife...tried to convince her of what she was throwing away but all it did was make the affair that much more desirable. You tell someone no....they are going to want to do it even more. The only advice I can give you my friend is try to be still as a rock. Being strong for your kids and for yourself. Its going to suck but your going to be plagued with thoughts everyday to do something to try to fix it...Bruh, e ven if she goes and sleeps with this guy.....yeah your ego and heart will be destroyed but at the end of the day its all about how you play your hand during this trying time. Don't give her no type of control of your mind. She's going to have to come to some kind of realization on her own. If she decides to throw away her family.....let her because 9 times of 10 she will lose in the end. Continue to do the right thing. Also....patients.....it'll play. be a big factor for you. it'll be tough but if you can withstand the storm coming your way you will come out on top. I know reading this it just sounds like words because your the one going having through it. But friend there's a lot of people here that's been in your shoes. I just came out of a very difficult time.... I hope everything works out for you and your family. If you ever need a ear I'm just a message away. Stay strong brotha.


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