# Did I just get insulted?



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

After trying to spend some alone time with hubby for a week, Finally yesterday I ended up chatting online with him as it was the only way I could get his attention! He was less than 10 feet from me!

Anyway, I asked him if he needed a night off from me. I said it to see if he would object and say that '*no honey, I like our time in the evenings together.'* well that backfired! He didn't say no or yes, but said he wanted to take a nap.

We usually plan on spending some snuggle/sex/quality time from 8-930 from M-F together, but he's been coming up with all sorts of excuses not to do it. He's too tired from work, too stressed out to be with anyone etc. Then he will just go to be and read at 830pm.

He said he was going to take a nap. So I was all perky and sweet about it, being loving and such. I thought that maybe he would appreciate the gesture, even tho I felt a little rejected by his response. This was at 7pm. He suggested I take our daughter to the local gun range and go shoot. So I did, giving him a hug and telling the other kids to be quiet so dad can nap. 

When I get back at 815, he had not taken a nap but was watching a movie. He stayed up till 11pm watching this movie with the kids (well past his usual bedtime of 9pm) and not even watching the kids. Whenever I would come in the room to be with them too he would ask me for some favor downstairs - like "could you get my uniform shirts out of the laundry for me honey?" and letting the baby run out of the room so I would have to go chase him. It was pretty obvious that he was trying to 'get rid of me' but nicely. I finally went back to work at my desk. I could hear the kids ask dad in the next room "where's mom?" and "don't you two want to spend some time together?" and he would just say "shhhh. movies' on"

As he went to bed at 11 he gave me this HUGE hug and said thank you so much for the downtime honey. 

Was I just insulted? Did he just thank me for NOT spending time with him? Did I just get affection for being GONE and not around? 

I feel like he's trying to use love and affection to train me to be a roommate and be somewhere else in the evenings. I have a feeling if I asked him that he's already thinking of what I could do with the rest of my week in the evenings so that he doesn't have to be around me.

We both work but I always have to watch the baby till he falls asleep, usually around 1am (uggggh) :sleeping:

When I came to bed, I tried to snuggle with hubby but he pushed me away. At 430 the baby woke up and I brought him to bed with us. Then hubby snuggled up with the baby all cozy and put his feet next to mine, but pushed me away from getting any closer. In the morning he mentioned that he 'finally' got some good sleep because he got to snuggle up with the baby.

I've told him several times and just two days ago that it's very hard for me to sleep unless I get some snuggle time with him. That I feel like I'm missing something and that it's really important to me.

This morning he just said 'bye' and pecked me on the cheek, but major hugs and love for the baby. 

Does it sound to anyone else like I just got diss'd? Or am I making mountains out of molehills? I'm in wait and see mode at the moment. 

I have a feeling he is trying to train me to be a roommate by 'rewarding' me with affection when I leave him alone!


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## SaxonMan (Apr 1, 2009)

Yes, I think you got insulted - but in the nicest way he could find.
It's not right that you're made to feel like this.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

me:	hi there 
Hubby:	hello
Hubby:	what up?
me: just sayin hi 
me:	can't a girl be friendly? sheesh 
Hubby:	lol
me: be friendly to hubby...check
me:	 
me:	do you want the night off? 
Hubby:	?
Hubby: night off?
me: like 'i don't have to deal with the wife' kind of night off?
me:	down time 
me:	naps! 
me:	reading! 
me:	movies! 
me:	whatever 
me:	you know, night off 
me:	you seem stressed out 
Hubby:	just tired, not pissed or upset
me:	ok 
me: you didn't seem pissed
me:	just exausted 
me:	like you wanted some happy time 
Hubby:	happy trime? lol
me: and i'm not sure i give that to you these days.. seems all i do is stress you out... so i figured that the best thing i could do was give you the space to be happy. does that make sense?
me:	yeah... happy times 
me:	dance a jig? 
me:	perhaps in your sleep? 
me:	while taking a nap! 
me:	yes, that's the ticket. nap jigs 
me:	*nods sagely* 
Hubby:	LOL
(10 minutes later after getting the kids all downstairs and fed and such)
me: you are cleared for naps sir!
me: 
me: let me know where you want me, here running interference (and doing laundry downstairs) here upstairs working or out of the house
Hubby:	i thought you were going to shoot guns?
me: haven't heard from monica
me: laundry is piled up as is my work I need to do.
Hubby:	c.a.l.l. her 
me: f.i.n.e.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Man, I just don't get it. 

I've been reading your saga for a long time now and I would LOVE someone to spend time with like you want to do. 

What is his problem? 

I think he did dis you, but as gently as he could. But that's just not right. Training you with affection to stay away...sheesh!


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## BSHAW27 (May 4, 2009)

Well from that message sequence it seems to me that you might be trying to hard. Everyone needs a break every once in a while but the problem is the other partner ussually feels neglected and comes on stronger then before which makes the situation worse. I think you would be better off just giving him some space without asking him all these questions. Personally I would be put off by all the questions.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I really don't know why you keep setting yourself up for so much disappointment and rejection. He has made it perfectly clear to you (over and over again) he does not want a relationship. He wants to be your friend, roommate, co-parent....nothing more. How much longer are you going to keep beating your head against this wall?

You deserve better....so much more. I think you really need to make some drastic changes before you lose what is left of your self esteem and self respect.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

what she said.

msstacy, that is.

i'd only add that there is a whole world of men who would give their right arm for half the attention you offer your ungrateful husband.

maybe the left arm too, although that might be counter-productive.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dcrim said:


> Man, I just don't get it.


you and me both! Nice, sweet, loving, distant, rejection, unloving... 

rinse and repeat. Mixed signals all the dang time... Grrrr


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

BSHAW27 said:


> I think you would be better off just giving him some space without asking him all these questions. Personally I would be put off by all the questions.


Well I can do that. But when I backed off for months, he just acted like he was happy I wasn't doing anything with him. What a waste of a life.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

MsStacy said:


> He has made it perfectly clear to you (over and over again) he does not want a relationship. He wants to be your friend, roommate, co-parent....nothing more.


But just two weeks ago he said he wanted us to be closer and he wanted a loving relationship and he wanted us to work together to get it!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

recent_cloud said:


> i'd only add that there is a whole world of men who would give their right arm for half the attention you offer your ungrateful husband.


Perhaps. But I still think there must be something wrong with ME that I keep getting rejected by him. I just can't figure out quite what I'm doing wrong.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

*There is nothing wrong with you!* This man does the least amount of what he should do in order to keep you quiet.



> But when I backed off for months, he just acted like he was happy I wasn't doing anything with him.


He was happy!

He wants to coexist without all the pressure you are putting on him to do something he clearly does not want to do! He is passive. He does not want an intimate relationship with you. He has said that outright.

He will keep sending you mixed signals until you finally realize what he has written on the wall. He sends you signals that he wants to be left alone because he wants you to leave him alone. He sends you signals that he wants to do a little in regards to your relationship because you have turned up the heat and he is feeling pressured....so he has to do something to appease you for awhile. 

There is nothing wrong with you. This man has sucked the life, confidence, self respect and self worth out of you. I keep asking you....how much longer are you going to live with that? How many more years do you want to waste?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

The whole reason for posting here, for the MF program for trying the MB program is to NOT waste any more years. I want to FIX this, not waste the time. 

If I finally find someway to reach him and bring him out of his shell, the time will NOT have been wasted.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

One of the comments i make to my wife illustrates this.

When I stop blowing air into the balloon it always goes flat because nobody else is trying to keep it inflated. She may like having an inflated balloon to enjoy, but working to keep it that way? Not even!


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

well, you could tie the ballon off tight. that is, after you've blown into it.

unless, of course, you like blowing into balloons a lot. (smile)


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## SaxonMan (Apr 1, 2009)

snix11 said:


> If I finally find someway to reach him and bring him out of his shell, the time will NOT have been wasted.


Wow. I think you may have just answered the question that has been perplexing me (and the counsellor). Neither of us can figure out just why I keep (I should say kept, because I left her tonight) plugging away at the relationship.

Maybe that's just it! If I could only fix it, the time and heartache wouldn't have been wasted. Maybe that's what my subconscious has been telling me.

I'm glad you posted that. Definitely food for thought.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Woo hoo! I posted something somebody thought about


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Last night we had another 'talk'. He gets this scared deer in the headlights look when I ask to talk these days. But I did get some good information.

1. He says he is walking on eggshells these days to make sure he doesn't do or say anything 'wrong'. I can appreciate the stress of walking on eggshells! But - if he's at least stressing a little about his behavior that tells me he's at least thinking about it. Maybe there is hope for change.

2. We talked about his Rock/Cave thing. He still says he is afraid to open up because he has commitment 'issues'. Man does that ever sound like an excuse and psychobabble. I asked him what the 'issue' with commitment was he said 'what if I commit and then something happens and it doesn't' (doesn't what? work out?) Well we all take that chance dear. You took that chance on me once before. I'm still the same scary, wonderful, loving frustrating girl you fell in love with. He said "oh" like that hadn't occurred to him. 

He said he thought we were 'common law married' but not 'married married' (ARGH) because we hadn't had a ceremony yet. And that he didn't want one of those till he was ready to commit. That totally confused me but I let that one go. 

I mentioned that this last week we had had lots of 'time' together but hardly any good time. He agreed. So here is what we decided on for next week:

"our time" will be 730-930. (I think this will be difficult but I'm keeping quiet as he chose the time)

Monday - Marriage fitness and make out 
Tuesday - Night off - I go shooting, he gets a 'break' from me
Wed - Update and Dice roll (that MAN and his "Chance" thing)
1. Movie 2. snuggle 3. Play a game 4. Go Out 5. Talk 6. MF
Note I let him pick what the numbers went. Interesting.
Thursday - Play Games
Friday - Sex (woo hoo)
Sat - Experimental sex (this should be interesting...)
Sunday - Contest - to see who can be the most romantic (i threw that one in)

Everyday:
10 second Hugs (3 per person)
Playful touches / fun snuggles
5 second kisses
sleep affection
Tickle his back
loving gesture

You read that right, looks like I get sex three times next week.

MARK!! What do I do for "experimental sex night??" lol anybody?? Retention? something? i dunno.

What we have done in the past:

1. Sex dice game
2. Sex on cam on some website (nobody viewed us thank goodness and i don't think we even had the cam hooked up properly but he liked it...)

Help!!

I wouldn't say he was excited or eager for any of this, but he wasn't objecting either. If your spouse was passively accepting of changes as drastic as all this, what would you ask for?


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I guess it depends on just how experimental...

One of you could try a finger on or in the anus (maybe while giving oral). Or just spend a half hour sucking nipples. Or putting hickies in places not visible. 

That was just a couple of thoughts that popped into my head.


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## Tr000thSeeker (May 11, 2009)

I think you should start spending your valuable time figuring out how you plan to end this saga.
Do you want me in your life?
I don't know honey...well err...maybe...I'll let you know tomorrow, maybe.
He is now accustomed to and maybe even thrives on your desperate behavior.
You've been had.
Admit it and look forward to a better life.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Last night he came home (late because of work) and gave me a big hug and kiss, much warmer than usual. Even tho it was almost 10pm, he suggested we still do our 'game' night. Frankly I didn't care, and said the game could even be 'who can go to sleep quickest'. 

We played trivial pursuit (eh, it's ok) and then went to bed. He held me for a minute or two and we went to sleep. I slept great, but this morning he said he tossed and turned all night.


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## nightshade (Mar 4, 2009)

Who came up with the schedule idea? To me, that would be a lot of pressure. Is there an out clause?  But if it works for you guys then that's good, I hope it does. Good luck!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

nightshade, I came up with the schedule idea, but let him know in no uncertian terms that if he had any better ideas to help us become closer and in love I was all for them. 

He said he did want us to be closer and couldn't come up with any other ideas. So we are doing the schedule by default. I also let him know that if he thinks of anything different, I'm up for trying that too, and if he wants to change/move/delete/add anything we can do that too. 

I picked the idea of a schedule, he picked the times and 1/2 of the activities. He has the right to 'out' anytime he wants as long as we make up the 'activities' sometime that week. 

So far this week HE has been the one to remind me of what we are doing and when. Even last night, I suggested an out since he got home so late, but he insisted on us 'sticking to the schedule'. 

He called up today to ask 'what's on the schedule' for tonight. I said 'boinking' (sex) and he said he would be home late but that was ok since he could stay up later tonight as it was Friday. 

Frankly, I'd take 10 minutes of real, honest, loving attention (any kind) over 2 hours of ho-hum sex but I'll take what I can get at this time...

I guess it's working for him?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dcrim said:


> I guess it depends on just how experimental...
> 
> One of you could try a finger on or in the anus (maybe while giving oral). Or just spend a half hour sucking nipples. Or putting hickies in places not visible.
> 
> That was just a couple of thoughts that popped into my head.


He's let me know about 1000 times he is 'exit only' despite the fact that he LOVES me to tickle his ass cheeks. So I don't feel comfortable going any further till/unless he gives me the go ahead. 

I like the hickey idea... I'll see what he comes up with...


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## nightshade (Mar 4, 2009)

That sounds like good news, that he wants to keep to the schedule. Sounds like you came up with a good idea! Maybe this will be good practice and eventually spending quality time together will come more naturally. 

Maybe I should try it with my husband... hmm...


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

good luck nightshade


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I have only slept an hour or so, excuse my typing.

I'm too angry to post too much right now. Trying to remain calm and not blow up at hubby. 

Short version: bastard stood me up last night. :wtf:

Not even a hug when he got home. Didn't even touch me till 1158pm and that only to hold my hand on the way home from ihop (long story)

so not only did i not get any sex, I didn't get so much as a kiss hello or goodnight. Yeah, I know, why should it matter? If I was a whole person I wouldn't care whether or not he greeted me or kept his promises or we had sex or not. blah blah blah. well i do. and i'm pissed. and hurt. but mostly angry. I haven't let it show yet, but I am beginning to hate him for this. 

He wasn't overtly mean (but he never is unless I do something like MENTION he stood me up) but he knew how much I was looking forward to last night. He knew I had been getting ready for three hours, etc. I shaved just the way he likes (and I hate to do) just for him, had hot oil ready for a massage etc. We had talked about this at lunch and he said he was looking forward to it!

He got home late, spent time with the kids, tried to start a fight with me. then we went out to dinner (I didn't want to go) and got back around 1140. He went straight to bed apologizing for being so tired and shagged out. He suggested I come to bed with him, and I did. but then not even a kiss goodnight. He just rolled over and read.

After he fell asleep (in a few minutes) I stayed up and worked till 2am. Slept till 4 and I'm still up. I have this CHL class today from 9-8 (long day) with him. Was supposed to be RC for us. But i'm so angry I can barely speak. But at least I get to shoot stuff :gun:

I just feel like taking about three tylenol PM's and sleeping all day. My recipe for severe depression.

Hey, at least I'm still losing weight


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Dang, girl. I still don't get it! 

I'd love someone like you! What the heck is his problem?!? 

I've never known any guy that doesn't want to do it! As often as possible! 

That just sucks, big time! 

Makes me wish I had a trip to your area just to show him what needs to be done!


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## nightshade (Mar 4, 2009)

That sucks! I don't get it either. I'm sorry you're angry and hurt. It must feel like a slap in the face when you thought this was going to make things better. 

Do you think he might be trying to control you in some way?


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

why do you want to kiss someone who has to reluctantly try to kiss you and successfully dodges kissing you when he can, which apparently is often.

why would you want to have sex with someone who has to reluctantly try to have sex with you and successfully dodges having sex with you when he can, which apparently is often.

why would....oh, well.

we have very different ways of dealing with rejection. i don't go or stay where i'm not wanted. life is too short and there are too many people who do want my company.

years ago i asked a very successful artist what he saw as the key to his success, beyond his talent. he said that for every artist there is a community somewhere in the world that will appreciate and welcome the artist into their community, and it's the job of every artist to find that community, live there, and create.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Well I majorly messed up AGAIN. what else is new?

As you remember, Friday I was pretty upset about him standing me up. Sat morning he could tell I was upset and VERY sweetly asked me what was wrong. I said "don't worry about it" we were on the way to class and I wanted to wait till we could talk about it.

Class went fine. He didn't sit next to me, but that wasn't so big of a deal. It was him, His best friend, best friends wife, me, other friend. It was all social and cordial. No kisses or hugs or affection (even tho His friend and wife - Jim and Kathy) were kissing and hugging several times. 17 years and they love each other so much smile

Got home around 8pm and he asked me "so what experiment do you want to do tonight?" he didn't think the experiment would be sexual (even tho we had discussed that - he just told me I was lying and never said it.. Grrrrr... sigh)

I said I wanted to talk about what I had been upset about so thta we could get to having a nice time tonight without any leftover bad feelings.

That didn't go well, and we ended up arguing. He said he felt I attacked him verbally, he just was cold, mean, acusatory, berating, and telling me everything was all my fault and trying to make me feel guilty for saying anything at all, or even wanting a hug. (what's WRONG with you that you are so needy??)

But I kept trying. AND trying. AND trying. Finally found something that worked, even for a little while. I dared us to get over our fight in 10 minutes. the game was we could do anything we wanted, no matter how zany, then point to the other person when it was their turn. I started out doing the kid 'hand jive' stuff where you clap hands and do a routine. Anybody with a young female kids know's what i'm talking about (the mary mack stuff) That got us smiling and laughing. Then on his turn he chose for us to juggle stuffed animals. That actually seemed to work.

So, note to self and EVERYBODY, DOING things that are silly, fun and break the routine is a great way to end a fight.

He then played with the kids all happy and loving. I was really happy and excited! woo hoo, I'll get some of that happy playful love too!!!!

When the kids left the room and I asked for some, he said no, he wasn't feeling like doing that with me. Why? couldn't tell me, and then that started another argument.

it got bad again after a while when he was putting me off yet again about sex. I got REALLY upset when he 'accepted' me giving him oral then not only refused to do anything for me, but when I said I needed an orgasm too he suggested i go in the other room to masturbate. WHAT? I asked him why. he said it made him feel guilty not to participate. That made NO sense to me.

Why feel guilty? either participate and NOT feel guilty,DUH, or give yourself a break and not feel guilty about it. Didn't make any sense to me.

He feel asleep as I was starting, but that ended up making me cry and of course I stopped. Gosh what a mess.

This morning he was all cold and mean to me again saying he was still emotionally getting over what I did last night. I mentioned we had hurt each other, that I was hurting too and just wanted to get along today and suggested that we at least forgive each other and move forward. He didn't like that idea.

He was all nice to EVERYBODY but me. He would get on the phone with one of his friends and be all laughing and happy and stuff, then as soon as he got off the phone would be cold and mean and answer me in one word clipped mean sentences.

Hey honey, what would you like for dinner tonight?
whatever

Sweetie are you mad at me?
no answer

Would you prefer I just leave you alone for a while?
no answer, flicks ciggerette angrily out the window and rolls his eyes.

silence a few minutes. It's really nice we got some rain huh?
I guess

-- it went on like that all the way to the store, 20 minutes.

When we get there I said, "it seems like you are still really angry with me right now, how about we just split up the list and get this over with and give each other some space?"

Did I SAY I was ANGRY???? (very angry voice)

No, but your actions aren't very happy or loving right now...

Now we are home, and he's all happy loving sweet and playful with the kids and still sullen, mean, ignoring etc me.

This cold shoulder treatment is getting OLD.

I should have just said "lets experiment on something sexy" when he asked last night instead of wanting to talk about what was bothering me.

I should have just left the room when he started getting mad.

I should have not let him get me upset, no matter how he acted.

I don't know WHAT I should have done when he said what he did about sex, but how I handled it was obviously wrong. I feel like I just inadvertently totally ruined our sex life.

Damnit.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I just wrote a letter to him. Please critique:

Hi honey,
Since sometimes we don’t talk really well (or hear really well) each other, especially when we are feeling emotionally raw and drained I’m thinking maybe writing would be a good tool.
Suggestions on moving forward
Assumptions:

1. We love each other, despite being so bad at communicating that love sometimes that we hurt each other.

2. We want to get along, be close and our goal is to be in love again someday which we are both working on to the best of our ability.

3. We are both hurting right now. Nobody is better, or worse, or right or wrong. Nobody is hurting more or less. Hurt is hurt and neither of us want that either for ourselves or each other.

4. When we are feeling connected, We want to work together to not only resolve the hurts we have caused each other but to come up with goals and strategies so we recognize the argument triggers and move to curtail the small hurts before they become big arguments and even bigger hurts~!

5. We feel that right now we need to do happy, loving, positive things to get to a point where we feel close and connected to each other so we CAN talk about the hurtful stuff but what we need right now is love and tenderness and fun and such rather than hard emotional talks.

6. We both want and need love and affection from each other and we feel good when we give and receive love and affection from each other (When it’s not in an argument and it’s our choice)
idea -

1. Do a ‘do over’ tonight of last night. We start from “what experiment would you like to do tonight?” and forgive each other for the mess that happened last night. You once told me (when I was feeling like you are now) that all it takes for you is for me to say “I wish it never happened” and you would accept it as never having happened. I’m willing to do that for both of us. I truly DO wish the misunderstanding, hurt and argument never would have happened and I would REALLY like to end this weekend on a good positive note for us. I’m willing to put my fear of rejection aside and be loving if you can put your fear of getting verbally attacked aside and be loving. Kind of a trade, you know?

2. Take a break from each other totally this week. No alone time, no playing, no sex, no talking, No MF. Do our own thing, be roommates only for the most part. Sleep together ONLY if you want me to be your ‘woman’ and if you are comfortable being close and sexy with me while we are in bed together. Sexy doesn’t nessecarly mean sex, but it means being sweet and loving and kind and generous physically. Otherwise we sleep apart. I’m ok with the roommates thing for a short time as long as the bedtime rules are followed (ie, in bed together means close and affection giving and receiving)

3. Continue with our list and remember the ‘contract’ we signed in the MF book, that said if we DO fight, we forgive each other and go forward. (or whatever it said, want to read it together?)

4. Other! I’m open to anything really. It would be really great if you could take a little time and respond to these ideas and assumptions so I can know if I’m on the right track about how we feel about each other, where we want to go and what we might be able to do about it. I really want to know how you feel, I’m not trying to TELL you how to think or feel, I just want to know what’s in your heart and mind and this is a good way for me to listen to you.

I miss my honey and I miss being close. Can we PLEASE get over this and move forward?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

6pm Sunday

Sigh. I screwed up AGAIN

I go in. he's reading
me - Hi. just getting some water.
him - it's in the fridge
me - ok. would you like to do something tonight or are you just ok chilling and reading?
him - what?
me - tonight? would you like to spend some time together or not?
him - either way is fine with me
me - I would like to plan out my evening and my week, and I'd like to give you first dibs at my time, but I need to know if you want to spend time with me.
him - either way is fine
me - I need you to know what you want. 'either way is fine' sounds to me like 'i don't give a sh*t what you do'
him - I GAVE you an answer. you just don't LIKE the answer I gave. it's never enough with you, is it???
me - I don't feel comfortable planing stuff unless i know you want it too
him - that's your problem then isn't it?
me - if your friends call up and ask you to go out, you don't tell them 'either way is fine with me' You always know what you want with everybody BUT me. Just let me know. Yes you do or no you don't.
him - so you know EVERYTHING i've EVER said to ANYONE?
me - no. but i've listened to you for about 500 conversations with everybody over the last few years and you have never said anything like that. you say yes, or no or can we take a rain check.
him - that's your problem then. I gave you an answer.
me - either way is fine is not an answer. yes or no is an answer.
him - It's never good enough for you, is it?
me - I just need to know what you want.
him - I don't want to be in this conversation! throws the book across the room, slams out of the room.

I didn't give him the note. Guess now isn't the time, huh?

Why do I always screw everything up?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

630 Pm Sunday 

Well... I feel better now. I gave him the note. WITH hand written addendums on the outside to whit:

I came in the room to give you uthis note. then figured it might make you happier if i just asked what you wanted to do and got a straight answer. Not getting a yes of no is not fair to either of us.

Please let me know which way you might like to go so I can plan my night and this coming week. Limbo sux smile write back, talk to me, circle one? something!

PS I still love you you big dumb jerk. smile if I don't hear from you one way or the other about this I will assume #2. gosh i wish we were friends again...

He was outside sitting on the stoop of the shed. I came by, and he was staring daggers at me.

me - hi. don't shoot! *laugh* I just wanted to give you this note. I'll be in cooking dinner, should be ready in about five minutes.

him - (if looks could kill)

I went in and made dinner. That's his chore but it didn't look like it was going to get done if i didn't do it and I had seven hungry kids wanting dinner!

As I was cooking, I realized I finally felt FREE. I had told him I loved him, given him the note. What he chooses to do with it is up to him. I think the waiting around for him to want me was driving me NUTS the most.

So back to dinner. He's a one course kind of guy, I like a full meal. He thinks ribs and milk is a meal, I prefer to round things out a bit. So I made a pasta skillet thing, added extra veggies, crusty rolls, had the kids make iced cookies while I cooked. As it got time for dinner, I was going to send (his) daughter out to tell him it was ready. He was in his truck and told her he would be in in a minute. Well, dinner is on the table, we are all waiting. I waited five more minutes then told everybody to dig in. It was weird not having him at the head of the table saying grace, but we managed.

I cleaned up after dinner. Still no sign of him. Graded all the homework, got everything ready for tomorrow, ignored the laundry mountain (agian - another one of his chores) DD asked if we could go for a drive tonight. I said sure.

DH just came in. He looks all subdued and weird. He looks like he's headed for the gallows. Last time he looked like this he gave me the dear jane speech. Fine. That is HIS problem this time.

I am here for him if he wants me. But he's gonna have to SHOW me.

I'm going to go in and tell him we are going to wal-mart. I'll be perky, mostly because i FEEL perky.

For some reason I have this HUGE weight lifted off of me from giving him that letter and letting HIM deal with it instead of me having to fix things. Ball is in his court. I'm SICK of carrying the dang thing all the time

Later ya'll. *hugs*


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

930pm. He’s on his computer looking all morose. 
0: hi 
0: good evening m'lord  
0: no, i'm not nuts.... well no more than usual anyway  
0: i just found my happy place. Mostly because while i love you, so much it makes me want to fix and heal and help and make us PERFECT... I realize that I need to let you figure out what you want 
0: it looked like you were gearing yourself up for a dear jane speech tonight. I hope not, but I can't stop you if yer gonna 
0: giving you that letter, i realized... look, girl... tell him you love him. tell him you want him. tell him that you are willing to work things out if he wants to. but also tell him that 'i don't know' and 'either way' ain't gonna work. there are at least a billion men on this planet that 'don't know' if they want a relationship with me. I don't have to put up with that from the one who already pledged his love to me 
0: so... be here now... or not... your choice  
0: love ya


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

After he came in, he was all quiet and defeated looking. Not sure why. I was nice. 

last time he was like this i got the dear jane speech 
he was looking at something on his computer, i was friendly about it 
he was polite 
i had a glass of wine about 10pm, offered him one, he declined 
i wasn't pushy, just nice about it 
about 1045 I came over and gave him a rub on his back, and said I was going to bed 
he didn't say anything 
there are 1billion men on this planet who 'don't know' if they want a relationship with me 
but i don't let them into my bed either  
you'd think if that was his choice he would be happier about it 
why he's all depressed (refused to eat or smoke or even give the kids hugs goodnight) 

i figure i'll just be nice, and give him some space 
but he doesn't get to get back in MY bed and act that way 
i love that man so much. but i am not up to this task 
he needs to get himself together and be a man 
he needs to **** or get off the pot


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

so he sleeps on the couch, this morning he gets up without a word, gets dressed and leaves. 

what a strange man.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

wow Snix....stop feeling like it is always your fault and that YOU did something wrong again. Thats only what HE wants you to think and feel. You do nothing wrong when you ask for answers he can't seem to give you.

So many men would love to have someone like you that gives a **** about the relationship. BUT, it sounds to me like he doesnt care. Is he having an affair? is that why he cant manage to have sex with you? That was my first insitnct.

I personally think you put too much effort into this man, and he doesn't deserve you or your time. He needs to grow up and be man enough to tell you what it is he wants. I think he plays you, and you let him. He knows how you will react, and he counts on that to give himself more time.

The letter idea was great, and I am happy that you feel a relief. You have done all you can do, so if things do not work out, do NOT feel it was your fault. You have done everything you possibly can to make this man understand you and what you want out of the relationship and him. He just doesnt seem to care at all. I hope he can get his head out of his behind soon, before it's too late(but then again, that is male typical...too late).


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

No affair. No physical problems. I touch him he gets hard.

But he doesn't kiss me any more. no foreplay and sex only spooning for the most part. He hasn't given me oral in forever. 

His sexual issues are mental / emotional.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

My backing off before didn't help.
My being forward helped a little
My 'forcing' him into working on the relationship helped the most but caused the most problems and fights also.

Now I've been insulted sexually, rejected emotionally and i'm TIRED.

My strategy this week is to be happy and perky, but NOT ask for any time or attention. IF he ever wants it again, he'll have to ask for it, show me, something.

-----

update: as I was typing this he calls. All perky and nice. Not loving mind you, but socially acceptable and not morose.

we talked about work and bills and fixing things around the house. He asked me about getting his daughter some minutes on her phone. Things like that.

Last words - alrighty, give me a call if you need anything...

Glad he's in a better mood?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

*lightbulb*

I think i might know why he's all perky...

He wants to be roommates - has said so. He thinks he is getting what he wants! lol...

I said I would do that for a little while.
Translation, a WEEK. not 40 years.
Man is he gonna have a wake up call next week.
He can enjoy this one while it lasts...


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Stop giving to HIS needs. Let him know you have needs too, and there has to be a happy medium for both. Would he consider counceling to figure out what his mental/emotional issues are? or does he know what they are, and just doesnt care to try and solve them?


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

My husband admitted something to me once, so now I know how to get his goat.....when he gets upset at me for something HE(and only he) feels was "wrong" or whatever, all i have to do it is go about my day like nothing happened at all. 

Maybe you need to do this....go about your day...be the happiest you that you can be, ignore him a lttle, busy yourself with other things, dont give yourself time for him...if at the end of a week things have not changed...keep this up, but letting him know that you will NOT under any circumstances live out the rest of your days with him this way.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

We have discussed all this at length. He swears that in the last year, he no longer has a NEED for love, romance, sex etc. He describes all that as an occasional (every few years) craving. 

He gets all his needs met with his friends (recreation and companionship) and his kids (affection, love, etc)


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Going about my business as a disinterested third party actually makes him HAPPY as what he wants is a light, easy friendship kind of relationship with no pressures, expectations or commitment. 

A howdy how was your day greeting on arriving. 
Polite enough to change the toilet paper in the bathroom
Sleeping together but not loving
Sex maybe once or twice a year when HE is in the mood

Anything more and he feels I am 'forcing, demanding, controlling' etc. 

No, he didn't used to be this cold, aloof or nuts. He was an affection hound like me, we had sex sometimes three times a DAY, and at least three times a week, he wrote me sexy emails, brought me presents, made sure I was satisfied in bed, was possesive and attracted to me. Had no problems telling me how much he loved me and why. 

He says all that was the honeymoon period and now it's over. He doesn't miss it or want it and doesn't want to work for it. 

However. He knows I do and feels guilty for 'leading me to believe that it would continue' and feels bad when I am wanting affection, love, romance or sex and he doesn't want to give it. He says he feels like an a**hole for treating me this way, but only puts a minimal effort into making things better.

Love, romance, commitment? No thanks. Not right now. Not ever. Don't need it, don't want it. 

As he says "that's scary grown-up stuff"

My unspoken response - You are 42, grow up already. You loved it when we were in love, we can be close and in love again if we try, why put either of us thru this?


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## nightshade (Mar 4, 2009)

Wow. That's really rough. I think going about your own business it about the best you can do right now. Yep, the ball is in his court.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

That whole ignoring him thing till he misses you only works if he lets him self miss you and care


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm sorry you're having to go through this snix.

Now that the ball is in his court...make sure he knows the shot clock is running.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

How do you suggest I let him know the shot clock is running?


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

I just mean that he should know that time can run out.

You said that you'd be ok living as "roommates" for a week. Not 40 years.

Make sure he understands the week is ticking by.

Because if he is happy being ignored, he has no incentive to change otherwise.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Monday Evening - He was perky. Nice. He came home and for a second it almost looked like he was going to give me a hug but he turned away at the last second. 

I ignored it. I had a big headache and he offered to use the big Hitachi wand vibrator on my neck. He didn't actually do it, but he did offer. As I was making dinner he asked if he could help. He wasn't cold or distant, that's for sure. 

It was really strange.

I'm not sure what to think. At 11 he suggested I was tired and should go to bed. I did. He slept in the office again like it was the most normal thing in the world.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

He called from work today to ask where the bank was near his location. I looked it up and told him. After he seemed to kind of 'remember' to ask me how my day was. I said fine. He asked about the kids. they are fine too. He then said 'well ok then, talk to you later'


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## Mr. R (May 5, 2009)

This a very odd way for a man to behave. You mentioned at first in your relationship he was quite sexual. You also said he's 42. Perhaps his testosterone levels are declining. I personally know of a fellow that this happened to and he refused to get help. His wife of 10 years (him:45, her:38) ended up leaving him not because of the lack of sex, but because since he wasn't very interested in sex anymore, he stopped giving physical affection. He saw such things as the lead-in for sex and therefore stopped doing them when he didn't want sex anymore.

Also, it's possible for a man to get bored with sex with the same person. Please understand I am not trying to insult anyone with that statement. What I mean is that regardless of the level of variety in sexual play, a man can nonetheless become bored because it's the same woman, over and over. I've struggled with this myself; my struggle is made doubly difficult because my wife has (and always has had) a very low level of sexual feelings. She's more of a practical, hard-working, perfectionist type of person whose idea of pleasure is quiet and dark rooms where she can sleep. She puts very little stock in physical pleasures, often remarking "What good is it? It's a freakin guy thing!" (or some variation thereof). So, what I'm getting at with all of this is that sexual boredom and/or low testosterone levels may be part of the problem. Remember, the boredom is not your fault (if indeed that's the problem). It may simply be that no matter how experimental you are, some guys are just bored easily. I hope this helps, and good luck. You sound like an awesome lady for a man to have in his life.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Snix, I'm really so sorry to hear about all the effort you're putting in and that he just seems to not care! 

"...either way is fine..." -- that's a load of crap. If I had an offer of sex, no way would I turn it down! Of if he says that again, then jump him!  

Why did he marry you in the first place? 

There's no way I could treat someone like he is treating you!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Mr R. I have thought about the low testosterone thing. He refuses to get tested. I also think he's stopped all the flirting and affection because he (like most men) see it as a means to an end, sex. Us women, or at least me, see it as a means to becoming interested in the end, sex 

I have (and still would if we were back close) offered to swap, swing, do FFM's invite people into our beds etc. Every year he is given a sexual monogamy 'reprieve' by going to a four day event where he is allowed to have sex with anyone he wants with my blessing. 

This year he said he autographed 45 pairs of boobs but didn't have sex. 

I've had cam sex with him, bought sex games, agreed to any position or experiment he wanted, suggested all sorts of things. 

What more can I do?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dcrim said:


> Snix, I'm really so sorry to hear about all the effort you're putting in and that he just seems to not care!
> 
> "...either way is fine..." -- that's a load of crap. If I had an offer of sex, no way would I turn it down! Of if he says that again, then jump him!
> 
> ...


I agree with the 'load of crap'. He says its his truthful answer and I want him to be truthful so I should just accept the answer and shut up and get off his case.

I have tried engaging, jumping him or whatever positive thing I wanted when he is non-committal about the answers. He will then sometimes participate and sometimes do the cold fish thing. I'm NOT interested in a passive sex doll thank you. 

I want to be WANTED, damnit. I require sexual lust and interest for me to get aroused.

At the time he said I was the one for him. He was in love with me, I was his soulmate, he could talk to me about everything and anything. I made him happy for the first time in his life. He felt like a real man when I was around. I brought out the best in him. He was facinated by me. He enjoyed being with me more than anybody else. I turned him on like nobody ever had (9-18 hours of sex straight nine saturdays in a row? yeah we went at it like ferrets) He said there was an amazing chemistry between us. We found 684 things we shared that were quite unique. (like we have both been hit by blue chevy impalas - that sort of thing) 

About a year ago, he came to me and said that he moved in with me before he was ready to (it was his idea) and that he knew about a month after moving in that I wasn't the one for him. He's NEVER told me why. He said he stayed after that because he thought maybe we could work things out and he felt guilty for wanting to leave. 

I find these two feelings to be worlds apart. I feel the first one was/is more real but he's clinging to the idea of the second one now.


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## Mr. R (May 5, 2009)

I had not anticipated such a level of sexual experimentation. It's certainly far more than anything I would have imagined. You let him go out on you AND you do all the things you've posted and he STILL treats you like crap? Why in the world do you still care about him?

I know, people say you love who you love without any choice in the matter. I call b*llsh*t on that. No matter what our feelings and instinctual urges are, we are beings of mind and free will. Exert yours and find someone who will appreciate you for what you are: most guy's fantasy of a wild, sexual, but still loyal woman. I mean, you let him go do all those things you said and he's not worshipping the ground you walk on? What a d*ckh**d.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

lol Mr. R...

thanks for the ego boost 

I'm staying right now NOT because of how the jerk is behaving. 

I'm staying because I don't want to have to share custody of our 1 yr old son, because I still have hope for the idiot and because I promised I would work on the relationship for a year. Clock is ticking. He has till Feb 1, 2010.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

There is nothing more you can do. 

He is not interested in an intimate or loving relationship. He wants to be roommates, friends and coparents. Period...end of story. I believe those very few times he has told you that he wants to be close and loving again is simply his way of getting you to lay off the pressure. He tells you what you want to hear every so often to keep you quiet for a bit and to keep the peace. 

He has told you in both words and actions that he simply wants to coexist. You told him a couple days ago that you can live with the roommate situation (even if YOU think it will be short term) but he cannot sleep in your bed under those conditions. So what does he do? He is happy to sleep on the couch because you are finally giving him what he wants! 

It doesn't matter what the reason is anymore....low testosterone, lack of interest, "that's adult stuff", whatever. HE simply does not want the relationship you want. You will continue on this rollercoaster making the same loop around until you finally decide you no longer want the rejection and that you deserve better. 

Look back three months ago, six months ago, your trip to Disney World, to when all this started....WHAT HAS CHANGED? All this "trying" you are doing, all this work and effort you are putting in, the schedules, experiments, deatiled number of hugs/kisses/nice words per day, games.....what has this gained you? You can TRULY say you have given it your all. Is it better than it was six months ago? Has your relationship improved? Are you closer? Is he a more giving lover? DO YOU FEEL LOVED AND CHERISHED? Or are you stuck in the cycle of trying to get someone to do something they very clearly do not want to do?


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

> I find these two feelings to be worlds apart. I feel the first one was/is more real but he's clinging to the idea of the second one now.


Or are you the one clinging to the idea of the first?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Oh i'm def clinging to the idea of the first. But, I still feel he meant what he said in the begining more than he means what he says now.

Why? When he said he loved me, he was happy, productive, centered and emotionally stable. He could describe both his feelings and logically what led to those feelings. 

What I hear now is that he is scared. He is no longer a happy person, or productive or centered or emotionally stable. When he told me he was leaving he was upset, not calm. He doesn't know why he feels the way he does. He doesn't know why he doesn't want us. He doesn't know what he wants. 

Being the logical girl I am, that is why the first strikes me as more internally truthful.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

snix11 said:


> About a year ago, he came to me and said that he moved in with me before he was ready to (it was his idea) and that he knew about a month after moving in that I wasn't the one for him. He's NEVER told me why. He said he stayed after that because he thought maybe we could work things out and he felt guilty for wanting to leave.
> 
> I find these two feelings to be worlds apart. I feel the first one was/is more real but he's clinging to the idea of the second one now.


I was reading through a book in Borders the other day: "Uncoupling". One of the things people can do when trying to distance themselves, is to look back and "rewrite" their feelings to match the present, and to help justify to themselves that they are doing the right thing.

So a gradual pulling away becomes "I've never loved you", or recent doubts become linked with the distant past. "I've always had questions".

It's a coping mechanism. I know that doesn't help you snix, but it's possible that that is what he is doings.

As far as sex...good god woman! You do all that and to him "...either way is fine..."????? If my wife were half as interested in sex as that, I would have never found this website.

Hang tough...the best you can do is your part of the bargain. He has to decide to meet you halfway, or not. That part is out of your hands, so take care of yourself.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Well, you clearly aren't ready to part ways with him. I certainly wouldn't stay with him under these circumstances and the way he treats you, but that's just me. When you finally decide that you deserve better and you are losing a lot of precious time chasing after this man then you can heal your self esteem and self respect. 

Until then....or until he finally starts loving you the way you deserve....I say quit chasing him. Don't "try" so hard anymore. Save your sanity and just go with the flow, as you are doing this week. No more schedules, no more "work", simply live your life and make yourself happy. If he wants to join you and come around, then great! But no more pressuring him to love you, or chasing after him and begging him for love, compassion, or sex. Stick to your guns, he can't sleep in your bed unless he wants to be loving towards you. Don't expect his behavior to change in a week. You have put the "roommate" timeframe at a week, but unless you are willing to give him an ultimatum of leaving, you have nothing to back up your timeframe. So just put the guns down for awhile and see what happens.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I’ve been told by hubby he doesn’t know how to make me happy. I’ve worked pretty hard at the last year to come up with exactly what it would take to make me happy! What deposits the most love units in my ‘love bank’ etc. Let me know if you feel this is unreasonable:

Morning – a few seconds snuggling when we first wake up. Telling me you love me, or some other endearment. “Good morning my love” and a kiss on the nose or something like that would be perfect. 

Noon – call me up on your break just to say hi. 

On coming home – greet me with a warm sexy hug and kiss. Something that shows me you like me, want me and desire me. 

Evening – Have some family time together, do some chores, play a game, watch a movie, have sex, just something fun and together.

Weekends – one weekend a month we go somewhere just for us. One weekend a month we do something with the whole family (camping or something like that) One weekend a month we go on a date. The other(s) we leave open to what we feel like doing

Sleep – First one to bed snuggles the other one for a bit. We always fall asleep touching somehow (tangled feet works fine for me) - doesn't have to stay that way all night.

Romance – Have a contest to see who can be the most romantic! Send each other sexy text messages once in a while. Do something romantic (Even if it’s just opening a door, calling the other by a special pet name, scrubbing your back in the shower) every day. 

Sex – Yes please!  Three times a week as a rule, more is fine. Spice it up, have fun. Make a promise never to let it get boring. Make sure the other person is satisfied too. It can be as involved as a five hour marathon sex session or as easy as making out on the couch for 10 minutes... or anything in between.

Compliments – at least five per day (I usually give out 5-10) This can be as simple as ‘you look good in that shirt’ to ‘wow, nice dinner’ to ‘I like the way you handled x today’ Say something like "god yer a sexy wench" and that counts for like 5 :bunny: Telling me you love me counts too... 

MF – Work on the marriage fitness program (in our situation) to help us be close. Make a promise to never let our love fall from a romantic love to a caring love.

Games – Do something fun at least once a month. Play pool, learn a new sport, go adventuring, something interesting we both like to do.

All this is a two way street. Each of us would initiate about evenly on all of this.

Keep your promises, surprise me once in a while and just plain love me like I do you.

Do these things and I will give you the world :smthumbup:

If I know all these things (and if they are not out of the reach of a mortal man - like he says they are) and I tell him this is what will make me happy - why does he keep telling me he doesn't know how to make me happy? :scratchhead:


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

snix11 said:


> I’ve been told by hubby he doesn’t know how to make me happy. I’ve worked pretty hard at the last year to come up with exactly what it would take to make me happy!


Maybe its you that doesnt know how to make yourself happy. maybe you should come up with a list of things you can do that dont have anything to do with him.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Ok.. but they involve me being single:

1. Make money. Pay bills. 
2. Raise the kids, be a good mom
3. Keep the house clean
4. train dogs and go to dog shows

shrug... i've been in a relationship so long it's hard to remember being single again


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

If I didn't need ANYTHING from anyone to be happy, why even HAVE a relationship with anyone? Why have kids or pets or friends?

All these relationships come with some basic tenents and expectations. 

Friends keep their promises, have fun with you, are there for you in times of trouble. 

Kids give you love and amusement and help when they are old enough

Spouses give you love, sex, tenderness and romance.

Pets give you loyalty, fun, love

They all give you smiles and happiness and you give it in return.

Significance and significator.. one of the ethical primes and the supposed reason God created the universe and the world.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

> If I know all these things (and if they are not out of the reach of a mortal man - like he says they are) and I tell him this is what will make me happy - why does he keep telling me he doesn't know how to make me happy?


My opinion....it's a cop out. You have spelled it out, written it down and given him schedules. You have told him what to do, how to do it, how many times to do it, and how to FEEL when he does it. At this point, he KNOWS what you want and he knows what would make you happy. He doesn't want to put in the effort or do the work.

I keep mentioning pressure. I know he has said "I don't know how to make you happy" and you interpret that as a question, a request to inform him. It's not...he has made you happy before...he lives with you...he knows what makes you happy! It is a passive way of saying "I'm not going to do it". I think that because you are not happy and he is not trying, you keep tightening the screws trying to get some kind of positive and loving response from him. You call it "trying" and "working to improve the relationship". But everytime he lets you down and rejects you, you tighten the screws again with something else that might work. He feels pressured to act in a way he does not want to for whatever reason.

I would definitely pull away if I had all these checklists, schedules and daily requirements. Heck, my husband would completely shut down all together. It's not working. Let go for awhile. Don't do anything in regards to the relationship. Like I said before....put the ball in his court. You live your life and do your thing. Do what makes you happy right now. Take any and all pressure off him. Don't schedule your time or your week based on what he wants to do and that he "might" want to spend some time with you. Make your own schedule and he can fit himself into it!!! Don't be so available or needy. Just go forward for awhile, as you are doing this week and as I said in my previous post. He has proven to you time and again that what you are doing now is not working. So do it his way for awhile. Be roommates. Then maybe when you get tired of that and finally see that he WON'T give you what you need, you can back up your words with actions. Right now he knows that if he doesn't do what you want nothing happens. You turn the pressure up a notch and he says something that will turn in down for a minute. Back and forth, back and forth. He doesn't have to do anything because you won't do anything about it. At some point you will grow so tired of having a "friend" relationship you will finally issue an ultimatum that you will follow through on.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Stacy, what you are saying 'don't make no sense'



> Then maybe when you get tired of that and finally see that he WON'T give you what you need, you can back up your words with actions.


Like what?

And just how is this supposed to HELP my relationship grow into love? hmmm?


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I just don't think that after all you have done (and I'm thinking since your Disney World trip), to "HELP your relationship grow into love", it hasn't gotten you very far. I was trying to convey that he has no consequences (that word is a bit strong but I can't think of a better one right now). You will try and try and try and he doesn't have to do anything but throw a few passive statements your way and you will try some more....and wonder what is wrong with YOU in the mean time.

Nevermind. 

We think too differently. 

I hope you eventually find something that works. I hope you can get the love that you deserve from him.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Hey, Snix! I can make you a better offer! Every night, too.  I love to cuddle and have a warm body next to me! 

Obviously everyone here cares about you! They all think you're in a losing battle. You, obviously, think otherwise. Your clinging to the hope that you can get what you want. 

I did that, too in my situation! I finally had to let it go. To release the hope, the "love". It's day by day for me, but I'm getting on with life. 

I'm glad I have someone to talk to (daughter, eventually son). It helps tremendously! Otherwise, I don't know what I'd've done (but it would have likely been "permanent"). 

Leave him alone. Don't make any more effort. Get on with your life. Go out for drinks with the girls. Anything. You're not getting what you want in this situation. And probably won't. And I'm so sorry to hear that...you deserve so much more. 

You give and give and give but get nothing in return. I'd love a woman like that. I'd give back so the synergy built us even stronger, more! 

Please rethink your position. I know you've given until next February...but think of the diminishing return idea. How long can you do this? Why do you do this? 

Next February...then what? Will you give him another year? Six months? It's been too long now, girl. You need someone that can love you the way you want and deserve. 

Stop making up ideas to get him back. He doesn't want to be there. You need to think of yourself! 

Sorry for the rant, but I hate to see nice people getting fu.ked around like you are!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

He got home around 8pm. He came straight to my desk like he used to to give me a hug. but then just stood there. I smiled at him. He didn't even say hi, but kind of looked awkward. 

We watched a movie with the kids in the office (now his bedroom?) 
The baby fell asleep around 10pm. He seemed sad when I went to bed. But i'm not sure why. He didn't say anything about it. I carefully avoided doing or saying anything personal - no touching, no getting him things. but I was social and perky. I didn't say anything to him special when I went to bed. 

He doesn't seem to miss me, huh?


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

the comedian steve martin, in his younger days, did stand-up.

often he'd start his routine by walking onstage with a vise attached to his head complaining about having a real bad headache. he'd say 'gee, i'm sorry folks, but i might have to cancel tonite's show because i've got such a splitting headache.'

the audience then started yelling at him, 'you've got a vise on your head! take it off and you'll feel better!' and steve would look incredulous and shout back 'no way. i don't have a vise on my head. that's crazy. but man, does my head hurt.'

the audience then yelled 'feel the top of your head! you'll feel the vise!' and he responded 'you're just trying to trick me. i can't possibly have a vise attached to my head. but, man, i wish i knew why my head hurt so much.'

i guess comedy, like art, imitates life.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

yeah yeah yeah.... I thought it was an arrow thru the head? 

I loved him in Roxanne


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

DownButNotOut said:


> Hang tough...the best you can do is your part of the bargain. He has to decide to meet you halfway, or not. That part is out of your hands, so take care of yourself.


Do you think he's aware that the option is even open for him to meet me halfway this week? or, like his friend says he's respecting my wishes to 'do a separation' this week?

He is not sullen, or angry. He's polite, fairly happy, having fun with the kids. Still calls me honey and dear, but makes sure not to touch me.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

i've also seen him do the routine with an arrow. i liked the vice better, though.

i loved stave martin in 'the jerk'. i'll never forget the scene where his father is shown holding some dog sh*t in one hand and a can of sninola shoe polish in the other, and steve martin voices over something like, 'and my father taught me all about life'.

let me come at you this way: denial ain't just a river in egypt. (rimshot please)

and recent_cloud has left the building.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

lol... ok i got ya the first time...

but damnit, we WERE in love once, so we CAN be again. Or at least i'm gonna try. Everything. Till Feb. 

If he's not trying by then, I QUIT. lol

My dance card is now full, i have plenty of would be suitors (some from years ago) but damnit, when this guy is ON, he's the best. 

I'm not giving up YET.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I think I may have found a trend. Plus something that hubby says now makes a bit of sense, where it didn't before.

1. We agree to do certain things - sex, talking, helping me with chores, doing me a favor -- whatever.

2. Hubby does some, then slacks off

3. I get upset but don't say anything about it, but resentment builds

4. I wait for a good time to talk to him about it.

5. Meantime, he is oblivious, thinking everything is fine (he's happy albeit lazy in the relationship and is just doseying along not realizing or caring he's not keeping his promises or that they mean alot to me)

6. We have a better than average day, close, talking, etc. I decide maybe I can now breach the subject of his broken promises so he doesn't blow up.

7. We are close and cuddling, having a great day - i say can we talk. he says sure.

8. So I gently (to me) try to bring things up that i would like to change (keeping our promises, more UA time, sex, whatever), he gets mad, either at me or himself *(usually at himself)*

9. He feels attacked by the person he was ready to support and help

10. He feels that if we have a good day, it will turn bad because i'll tell him he's being 'bad or wrong'

11. So he says it's when we are getting along the best that he is most afraid to open up (she will attack me)

-- OR --

1. He sees i'm upset, and thinking he's coming to my rescue from an outside source, asks me what is wrong.

2. I say, in different ways, you are what is making me unhappy.

3. He feels attacked by the person he was ready to support and help

4. He feels that if we have a good day, it will turn bad because i'll tell him he's being 'bad or wrong'

5. So he says it's when we are getting along the best that he is most afraid to open up (she will attack me)

So he wants to help, wants to rescue me, but DOESN'T want to be the CAUSE of my problems. Can't HANDLE it.

And, I've actually experimented on this - several times he's asked me what is wrong - I will LIE (ugh i hate doing that to him about my feelings) and make up some story about some outside thing that is upsetting me. He will take me in his arms, tell me it's going to be ok, all that stuff. I feel good because the affection, attention is what i needed in the first place, but bad because i'm not being open and honest about it.

I'm glad I kept all those excel sheets wink

Ok... if I've pinpointed the problem... what now?

I can't bring up anything negative (we've both admitted we are TERRIBLE at taking criticism)

Help?


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Then lay it on brutally!!

If he gets mad, tell him that he's the one fu.king it all up!!

You want this or that. He's not giving it to you. It HIS FAULT!!!!!!! HIS!!!!!! Not yours!! 

Let him have the full barrels!! Blast his ass for his attitude! Time to quit being a wuss!!

Let him know HE'S not being the MAN here! 

Let him know you quit. You're not going to try anymore. That you give up. Leave him alone. Kick him out if you can. Make him see what he's missing! 

I know it will hurt (you) but HE needs the wake up call or else you'll get on with your life. DO NOT wait until February!!! Do it now. You have your whole life ahead of you, not his! 

Sorry, I just can't see you getting screwed around like this. It's just wrong.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dcrim, yer mean 

tonight was an 'almost' fight, but it was avoided. 

even less contact than the last two nights. on the way to bed, he comes in and says 'i know i'm forgetting something...' and wanders off

(yeah, ya jerk. me )

but i just said 'oh you will probably think of it...'


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Sorry to sound mean.  

I just get a little angry at HIS attitude! You deserve more!

"forgetting something"? How can you "forget" love?!? Or sex? That'd be the first things on my mind all the time. And making sure she knew it (they love anyway...the sex would/should follow  ).


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Well, i guess he just thinks differently. He kept telling me (and I believed him) that it was because I was such a bit*ch, because I was always mean, because he doesn't need sex, or love etc. 

I kept trying and trying to figure out what I could fix, but could never be good enough for him. I guess 'good enough' is 5'6 and redheaded. 

Well I hope he finds her. Maybe then he can find love


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

This weekend is setting up to be a mess. One of his friends is having a party. Specifically a tequila party. He asked me last night 'if we were still going' 

Last time we went out, he drank, so he said it was my turn. But when I drink I get horny - tequila makes my clothes fall off  so I don't think this is a good idea for me. Plus I don't want to lose my new found reserve. 

Granted that will mean me having to put up with him all night acting like an idiot. last time he got tequila drunk he pulled waitresses into his lap, tipped one 80.00 and was telling everybody how much he loved them. He gets REALLY sexual (towards everybody else) when he gets drunk. 

But the birthday girl has done lots of wonderful things for me this year, so I feel duty bound to go. Then again she's a terrible gossip and if we broke up she would be one of the worst ones to talk about me. 

No wonder I stay at home most of the time and ignore social occasions!


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

snix11 said:


> I think I may have found a trend. Plus something that hubby says now makes a bit of sense, where it didn't before.
> [snip]
> So he wants to help, wants to rescue me, but DOESN'T want to be the CAUSE of my problems. Can't HANDLE it.
> [snip]
> ...


Hi again snix.

Have you read Mars/Venus? Seriously....if you can get him to, both of you read it together or separately. (There's even a Mars/Venus in the Bedroom)

The whole point of the book is to point out how men and women think differently.

What he needs is to feel like you appreciate him, that you have 'problems' he can solve, that you respect him as a person.



> 8. So I gently (to me) try to bring things up that i would like to change (keeping our promises, more UA time, sex, whatever), he gets mad, either at me or himself (usually at himself)


What he is probably hearing (regardless of how you say it or how you mean it) is that you think he isn't good enough, he's broken, he needs fixing, you don't love him because broken things aren't worthy of love. So he gets mad, and defensive. At himself...since he feels he is failing.

It sounds like on good days he really does want to be there. So when he does...let him be the solution, and not the problem. What I mean is phrase the problem in a way that lets him feel like he can *do* something about it...not in a way that makes him feel that *he* is the problem. It might not be easy, but try to think of ways to spin it. Men like to *do*, they hate to *be*.

He can 'fix' it, come to your rescue...you can express gratitude in his actions...he feels good about himself...turns that into not fearing good days anymore...and is ready and able to give you the cuddle/talk/sex that you need...it's devious but just might work.

And read Men are from Mars/Women are from Venus! seriously! 

Oh...and maybe run a few things through here first...and ask for ways to rephrase it so he'll receive it better.

Finally....Read Mars/Venus!


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

send your friend a nice card for her birthday with regrets and ask if you can meet her some time next week to give her a birthday hug

you know, people say i'm a patient and respectful man, but i know i wouldn't have the patients to do what you're doing. and i further don't know what that says about you nor i.

i don't understand why it's not ok to just tell him straight up what you've said here:

i don't want to go to the party because it's going to be a train wreck. either i drink which will get me horny and you sure as hell aren't going to scratch my itch, or you'll drink and make an ass of yourself and embarrass me by acting overly flirty with everyone but me.

your husband is an adult, and he should hear the truth spoken respectfully and then deal with it as he wishes. if he wants to pout, let him. if he wants to get angry, fine. tell him to just do it somewhere else.

you shouldn't have to work this hard.

your husband isn't giving you what you want as it is, so at least lose the anxiety of how to 'handle' him.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

um... cloud... you consider that spoken respectfully?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

what an evening. Hubby comes home. He comes over and stands next to my desk looking at me expectantly. I KNEW he was waiting for me to give him a hug. 

I look up at him, just as expectantly. We stood there looking at each other for several minutes. You know how long that is when you know someone is waiting for you to do something?

I also knew I have to wait till he actually says something or does something on his own. Finally, when I don't give him one, he stomps off mad. 

Well why be mad at ME? Well that hurt my feelings, so I make sure he doesn't see me cry (gosh I miss him) and decide to go work out. I take one of the kids. 

I find you may not be able to run from all your problems, but you can sure work out hard enough to forget about an awful lot of pain and anger 

So we work out and then go to wal-mart and get her new clothes. Got me some cute outfits too. Heck I've lost another 15 lbs in the last two months and nothing fits right any more. 

We get home around 10pm. He's asleep watching a movie. He wakes up, and asks his daughter to put on a fashion show. She does. He avoids asking me what I bought, I ignore the snub. 

He plays with the kids. For a min or two it's fairly companionable. 

I notice he hasn't touched me now in what? Five days? not even a brush against the foot. 

Finally the kids go downstairs. He sits and looks off into space. I sit and look at him, wondering what he is thinking. He turns to me and says 'what'. I said "I didn't say anything" He rolls his eyes at me and heaves this big sigh like i've done something wrong. I ignore the jab. 

Finally I decide to go to bed, as watching him stare off into space is like watching cement set. I try on my new babydoll blue sun dress, and put my hair up in ponytails just kind of for fun.

He comes thru the bedroom and sees me and just about runs into the wall. lol. serves him right. He gives an angry snort and shuts the door to the office and goes to sleep.

Should I have hugged him? Was I right to wait him out even tho he's mad at me for it? What's with all the getting angry at me?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

woohoo  I've lost seven pounds in the last week! Stress, long hours and diet power... only 70lbs more to go... (sigh)

I'm thinking about going out today and coloring my hair. Not for him, but for me. Everybody in my fam was a redhead but me. I got the light skin and freckles but the brown hair. 

I don't want it to be seen as 'pandering' to him, but frankly I like how I look as a redhead. If I really don't care what he does/says about it if I get it done (and I don't) should I get it done? Or do you think it will cause too much problems right now?

My new thyroid meds have my hair doing weird things and I'd like to get it cut and colored.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Snix, do what YOU want for YOU. 

It sounds like you're on a good road for yourself. If he doesn't want to go along for the "ride" that's his loss (and, to a point yours, too...sigh). 

And no, don't give him a hug unless he asks for it. You've asked, begged for attention, let him do the same. 

If/when he gets mad, tell him you're not a mind reader; you obviously don't know what wants any more.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

snix11 said:


> Should I have hugged him? Was I right to wait him out even tho he's mad at me for it? What's with all the getting angry at me?


Tough questions...I'm going to try a different tack, recast it from possibly his point of view. (don't get mad at me  )

IF he has decided to try to reach out to you....(big assumption but bear with me)

He came home, and approached you, obviously wanting a hug. You knew he wanted a hug. Very possibly, he figured that you knew.

He's scared...not sure of how he'll be received. He doesn't really know how to approach you. So in his mind, by standing there like that, he is asking you "Would you like me to hug you?"

You made no response, simply stared him down. He feels rejected. He thinks that his hug would be unwelcome, that your answer to his (unasked) question is "No". So he is hurt. The longer the staredown goes, the more he gets angry, and finally stomps off, feeling snubbed by you, and pouts the rest of the evening.



> I also knew I have to wait till he actually says something or does something on his own.


He very well might have felt that that is exactly what he did, by coming up to the edge of your personal space (but no further), and looking for a sign that he can come in. 

Should you have hugged him? Well...he wanted the hug. Did you? If you did, then you should have at least sent a sign that his hug would be welcomed. I mean, if you both wanted a hug...and then you stare each other down until one of you flinches...then you both lose. He'll probably be even more tentative the next time he tries to test the waters with you, fearing rejection.

As far as hair...go for it! If you think you look good with red hair, then red hair it is. You deserve to feel good about yourself, regardless of him.

(psst...Mar/Venus...seriously, what can you lose?)


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Down but not out - Well, I smiled at him, moved my chair out from under the desk to face him and turned off my montitor so I could pay full attention to him. 

I thought I was giving him the signals it was welcome. He also smiled at me, tilted his head etc, all the signals too. 

I think (but i'm not sure) he knew it, but was being stubborn in saying "i'll come this far but no further" the problem with me then finishing the 'hug' and coming the rest of the way, is that is what i ALWAYS end up doing. 

I felt like he way saying 'i'll passively accept your love now' but I don't want passive anymore.


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## scarletblue (May 20, 2009)

Hey there, I'm new here so I kinda feel like I'm butting in. I have to say though, HOLY WOW!!!!! You are one fantastic person! I didn't even read all the posts (I'm lazy), but I am so impressed with your perserverance. 

My first marriage lasted 15 years. I went through a lot of the same things you did to try to make it work. 

What did I learn? You have to put 100% into the relationship so you have no regrets or "what if's" if it doesn't work out. Also, no matter how many people tell you how many times to leave the guy....only you know if and when you're ready to do that. Not sure if that is right or wrong, but it's what I learned anyway.

I love your attitude and I'm totally rooting for your happiness!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

thanks scarlett... no you aren't butting in  

Feel free to give any advice, insight, or whatever you'd like. and welcome!


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

snix11 said:


> um... cloud... you consider that spoken respectfully?


respectfully, snix, yes i do. it's the straight-up truth as you laid it out here. except i think i said 'make an ass out of himself' whereas you said 'act like an idiot'. 

why is it respectful to say as much on a public forum, but not to his face? i would personally prefer my significant other tell me to my face that i'm 'acting like an idiot'. different strokes, i guess.

i expect my friends or significant other to respect me enough to know i'm man enough to handle the unvarnished truth. as a matter of fact, i find it exhilerating when i'm told of a problem i'm having that i'm unaware of because only then i can start to make things right.

consider what adrienne rich said: 'when a woman tells the truth she is creating the possiblitiy for more truth around her.'

congratulations on your weight loss. (smile) you should be proud of your accomplishment.

ps what did you finally decide to do about the party?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi recent cloud - Well I went to the party, put on my new dress (it's soooo comfy) pretty sandals, new makeup the who thing. Everybody at the party mentioned i looked great, and younger. kewl 

It was ok. I did drink, but not to excess. He very blatently ignored me during the whole thing, but I was playing "happy and perky" Finally when it got to me I went for a drive for a few hours to chill out so nobody would see me cry. 

I was able to get myself together and go back like nothing happened. Aparantly I was missed and they sent a few people out looking for me (not my husband mind you, he was busy playing magic with the boys) 

The party was ok. Hubby played magic with the boys in one room, I socialized in another. We were there from 3-12, a long time. We didn't talk much on the way there or back, and it was a long drive - about 45 mins each way.

When we got home, he went into the office like he's been doing and said good night. 

He doesn't seem to miss sleeping with me, or anything. He seems happy with the new regieme. My question is - now that the week is over, now what? 

Do I just keep going on like this? Try and talk to him? Kick him out? what? If I talk to him, what would I say?


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Kick him out! Get the life you deserve! Hell, I wish I had someone like you!  He's nothing but a place to park your shoes on!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi dcrim - Well, I did promise not to kick him out of the house, and he's already chosen not to sleep with me (it's been seven nights now) 

But I see no reason that if he gives me no clear signal he wants me for his own that I shouldn't start to have my own life - dating, etc. 

I don't see any reason to live a sexless, loveless life just because he doesn't want me. 

I still want him, still love him. I would be willing to do whatever it takes for us to be back together. But he doesn't seem to want it. 

I'm to the point where I'm not going to fight him for HIM anymore. 

Whatever his reasons, he doesn't want to be honest with me and tell me why he doesn't want me so we can work to fix it. And I'm not going to live half a life just because this one man doesn't find me good enough any more.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I need a nice way of saying this, including lead up questions etc. I don't want this to end up in an argument, or a fight or come across as being adversarial or bitc8y.

Ideas

1. Trade off weeks (or days or months) One week we do it like you want, one week we do it like I want

2. Figure out a compromise we can both live with

3. Your suggestions.

Staying like this isn’t a long term solution or option for me. It was ok for a week, to get us ‘neutral’ but this roommate thing isn’t where I’m going to live.

I'm sure he's going to feel pressured, but that's ok. I can live with his discomfort over pressure easier than I can live with this roommate thing.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

ooo! ooo! i like choice #3, 'your suggestions'. i was inspired by your 'staying like this isn’t a long term solution or option for me.' thought.

(wife enters stage left and speaks)

don't worry (insert name here), this isn't going to be a long discussion. actually, it's not going to be a discussion at all. i have something very brief to say and after the (insert number here) years we've been together, you are now going to give me your respectful attention for just one minute and listen. i have tried every way i know to make this marriage work, and it is still not working even a little bit. i am very unhappy, discouraged, and feel insulted by the way you have been treating me, i have told you as much, but you refuse to treat me better. and so, it's time we moved on because i'm done living this way.

(wife hopefully exits stage left, right,whatever,as long as she just gets the hell out of the room)

and saying the above with a texas accent just makes it all the more effective to me for personal reasons.

but, i guess your scenarios are interesting too. (smile) the only hesitation i have with 1 and 2 is that i've already read those scripts here, and was kinda hoping for a something a little different.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

um, recent... that sounds pretty much like a Dear John speech to me. 

I wanted to keep it POSITIVE... like

hey we didn't fight this week, so that was better
but we didn't talk, cuddle, have sex or act like a couple either which I miss. 

What's your suggestion for getting us back together? or if you don't want us back together, what's your suggestion for how we move on from this?


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

nothing you've done so far has worked. not knowing your husband, i can think of nothing else you can do.

you asked for conversational scenarios, and i assure you the one i posted is indeed what i would say.

and yeah it sounded like a dear john speech because it was. if you want to nuance it so you don't accidentally hurt his feelings (god forbid) or maybe cause him to pout and take another step backwards, well then, go for it. but you're negotiating from a position of fear it seems and that scenario never ends well.

put it another way: you have told him what you need. he has told you he's not gonna give it to you.

how do you move on from this? the way we all do if need be. one foot in front of the other, one day at a time. yes, ma'am.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I don't want to give him a dear john speech. i'm not worried about his feelings from my honesty or my openness. 

I can't kick him out, but I don't want to live without love. I'd like to know where he's at mentally about this.

Well, after asking I got an audience at 7pm (30 mins from now) 

What am I gonna say? I don't want to be the only one talking AGAIN

I guess I just ask questions?

So, what did you think of this week?
what are your thoughts? 
what do you think are the good and bad points about it?
what would you like to do next week?
how will that improve things around here?

I do NOT want to leave it open for monosyllable responses.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dang 15 minutes.. sigh...


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Well, you wouldn't live without love with me! I love to touch, stroke the skin, to always make sure you know you're loved! To always say the words! Damn, girl...you need someone that can appreciate you, that can love you! And make love to you (not just fu.k you...make love!!!)


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

thank you for your support dcrim 

t'was an interesting night for sure...

'm quite happy to say that life doesn't always turn out the way you expect it to.

My 'friends', we are all here a rather loose collection of fictional characters, none with hands and heartbeats. We know each other thru parts of stories and rants, hardly the stuff of our everyday lives.

Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events. ~RH

Does my man love me? I think he wants to. Truly I do. Not because I want him to or because I need him to, but because it's something I feel in him.

He may or may not act on that feeling. But I think it's there. I will nurture that little bit of warmth for the next year and see if I can breathe a flame into it. I might, I might not. But it will be fun to try.

If it turns out that he is still too scared by next Feb, I'll kiss him gently and bid him goodbye.

Tonight he told me that he saw no future in us, but didn't want to tell me for fear of hurting my feelings. I was neither surprised nor hurt, and he had no idea what to do with that reaction. 

I accepted it, thanked him for sharing and being open and honest and asked him "ok, now what?"

He says he doesn't know why he is so afraid of commitment. that he feels that is something he needs to work thru before he can be in a relationship (well duh genius) I asked him how I could help support him in his search, he wasn't ready for that either. Help you move out? pack your bags? help you settle the kids?

He said he wasn't ready to move out.

Ok. well then, now what?

He said he didn't know. I asked if he wanted to spend another week like the one we just had. He said no. He said he had been depressed all week. I told him he hid it well. He seemed pleased with that.

We brainstormed. I came up with switching out days/weeks/months with what one person wanted then the other. We both threw that out as too chaotic and psychotic. Then he suggested we compromise. What a good suggestion!

What would that look like? Well we only got to the sleeping arrangements and got thru that hurdle (which was bigger and took much longer than I had thought it could - do you want to sleep together or not seemed pretty straight forward to me) before I called a halt to the meeting. It was going well, no hard feelings, lots of deep soul searching, some hard words from him that I thought I took well and some compromise. We mutually decided to tackle each 'thing' a little at a time on a daily basis till we figured out our compromise level we could both live with.

That worked for him because it wasn't an all at once thing. It worked for me because it said we would be talking about something 'real' every day.

And if you are wondering - what about the sleeping arrangements? He agreed to sleep with me, and be affectionate if I agreed that there is a possibility that sometime in the future we may break up. He threw in that if he started seriously thinking about leaving, he would talk to me about it first.

He was adamant about fearing a committed relationship. I asked him if he could be committed to sleeping together for the next week. He said yes. I asked him if he could be committed to being affectionate for the next week. He said yes. I said I was happy with that, and we will see where it goes. I shared that I didn't know how I would feel after that week, so I didn't expect him to know either. We would just regroup about it next week. He seemed very relieved that I didn't know if I wanted the relationship either.

So far he's kept his promise. I've kept mine. baby steps, but interesting ones.

I don't know how to help his fear of commitment. I have offered to let him move out, no divorce, us agreeing on custody and such; i've offered to help him get a counselor to talk to; I've offered to just give him the space/time he needs to think about it, including letting him go to the mountains and whatever. The fact that he had NO idea, either with me or without me how he was ever going to approach his fear of commitment tells me he never seriously thought about dumping us. He told me one of the best things I could do is to be there for him as a friend to talk to about stuff. I said I could do that. We talked about some of his unresolved issues regarding his mom who just died.

Seems he just found out that his dad wasn't his dad a few months before she died. But other than a name he hasn't been able to trace, no sign of his real?? father. But then again she told other members of the family differing stories about it too. So he may never know who his real dad was. Combine that with having had over 10 stepdads, most of them viciously abusive and it's no wonder he has relationship issues.

But, having had a rather horrid upbringing myself, I don't consider early life to be an end-all-be-all of who we are today. Sure they may influence, but we CHOOSE who to be with every given moment, every time we chose to try over giving up - every time we choose love over hate - courage over hiding.

Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done.

He imparted a quote to me tonight, straight from his grandfather. It said that all women are crazy and all men are a$$holes. The trick is to find the crazy and A'ness that work together.

We'll just have to see where this goes. Night all, I have work to do before dawn.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Well I woke up this morning really PO'd at his 'the kid ain't mine' insinuations. 

I'm trying to get thru this day NOT pissed off at him.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

er.. bro, i don't date virtual people thanks 

Besides, while I appreciate the attention and stuff, I really would like to make things work with my current relationship. I love the big dumb jerk and I promised to give him a year if he wants it. 

Otherwise he can kiss my arse. Dating someone I met/meet on a relationship forum seems like a step backwards, kwim?

No offense dcrim


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

well if you're happy waiting a year, then that's that. 

i hope he comes around.

meantime, have a kick-ass holiday!

ps i missed something i think...insinuation about a kid not being his? as they say in text, wtf.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

yeah, all of a sudden, he tells me he thinks our 1 yr old isn't his. 

color me surprised


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

the kid's not his. mymy. i'd have to answer 'yes', yet again, to the title of this thread.

you're from texas, so 'don't get your cows runnin' cuz 'that dog won't hunt'.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

lol recent


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

hellobro said:


> why don't you and dcrim start dating? I have read his posts and he seems like he is into you.


Just read this one...busted out!!! ROTFLOL...I wish...  

If she would, I would...but I dont think thats a reality...


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dcrim, if i ever get single - and start dating again, I'll put you down on the list, ok? Pencil you in for say... oh... 2012?


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Ok, it's a date, girl!!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Well, things are progressing. lets see if he remembers to give me a hug tonight... Gosh has it really come to this? that the most I can hope for in an entire evening is one real hug? 

Well, if it's real - I guess that's all that matters.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

So now that I have been given the "I'm leaving and there isn't anything you can do about it" speech...what now?

His words:

1. He wants to be friends.
2. he feels we are still married till he moves out
3. he doesn't want things to get ugly
4. there is nobody else and he doesn't want anyone else
5. he doesn't feel better when he thinks about us being apart
6. we might get back together someday
7. It's not anything I did, it's just him
8. He needs to get his head together and have time to think
9. He doesn't have any business in a relationship
10. He's not moving out yet because he doesn't want to leave me high and dry
11. he feels bad about taking both cars
12. he doesn't see any need to get formally divorced unless I need to for 'closure'
13. He has no problem being affectionate with me
14. He doesn't want to hurt me
15. He knows he's acting like an A$$hole and feels very bad about it


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

well, usually, this is where the couple part ways.

but lord knows, with you involved, i hesitate to say 'usually'.

you are either in complete denial or very tenacious.

and from a distance it's a little hard to tell, so i'm going to play it safe and bet on both.

tenacious denial; now that's something i practice regularly and recommend highly.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

He took BOTH cars?!? 

Formally divorced? You aren't formally married! 

He needs to shove his head a little further up his a$$ until he can lick his tonsils!

Doesn't want to hurt you?!? What a hypocrite! No friends here, girl! 

ah...sorry...having feelings hit me today/tonight. I swear I'd be painting a target logo on him and practicing!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi recent... um... I'm in denial about what exactly? 

These are his words, not mine. Most of what he's saying doesn't make any sense to me - at least not logically. It all sounds like so much boilerplate I'm breaking up with you stuff. 

I understand that this is where the couple parts ways. So, why is he here? He says it's out of the goodness of his heart (how's that again, I didn't scan that...) that he's staying till i'm financially on my feet and we can get another car, etc etc. 

Well isn't that special of him. 

I'm not sure how I'm in denial about this, perhaps you can point that out to me? What am I denying? He's an a$$? No argument here. He's hurting me on purpose. No argument here. This is a stupid way to leave and the speech he gave should have been made with his bags packed? No argument here. 

And yet, he goes to work every morning. Comes home every night to play with the kids. Calls me honey and dear. Is polite. To a point. 

But it's like he's dead inside. See my post on zombies 

I just don't understand why do this to me and then stay. What's his point?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

DC, he hasn't taken both cars yet as he hasn't moved out. 

The camero (ghetto sled) was his before he met me. Our other vehicle is a pickup I bought him as a present. It's still in my name. I guess he considers that his too. Oh yes and lets not forget the other pickup he lent to one of his friends a few months ago. Also in my name, also in need of repairs. 

The last few days we have moved back from open and honest friends back into strange polite zombie silences. I feel like i don't date say anything to upset him - which may have been the point of this excersize the whole time - or to cause waves else I end up homeless. What a mess.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

snix11 said:


> So now that I have been given the "I'm leaving and there isn't anything you can do about it" speech...what now?
> 
> His words:
> 
> ...


 *hugs* snix.

I'm in a bit of a mood today so let me reply to each of his points.


1. Then get out
2. Then get out
3. Then get out
4. Whatever
5. Boo-frickin-hoo
6. When pigs fly
7. Woah...he got one right
8. Then get out
9. Then get out
10. You'll be fine
11. Then take one and get out
12. ??Whut??
13. BS
14. Well he did
15. 2 right out of 15 ain't bad. Then do the right thing, and get out

I don't know what game he's playing at. It sounds now like passive-aggressive BS designed to get you to do something so he doesn't feel like the bad guy. Or to paint you as the bad guy come D time.

If the cars are in your name, he can't take them. That's theft. 

Hon...I hate to say it, but cut your losses. Talk to a lawyer, and know EXACTLY where you stand, what your options are, what you can legally do, and what effect that will have on any divorce proceedings. Then, with all the facts in hand, you can give him a long deserved 'Come to Jesus' meeting.

dcrim said something....not formally married? I might have missed this, but the two of you are married, right?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Down but not out - we are 'common law' married in texas. Generally it means you get a divorce whether or not you are married. 

In texas if you put yourself forth as man and wife in public (which he has and does) co-habitate and some other things you are 'married'. I spoke to atty's last year when he first said he was leaving - technically we are married. 

This was one of the things we fought about - If he was going to tell people we were married (I didn't care either way) then I wanted a ceremony and a paper to that effect. He thought I was nuts for wanting it. Common law marriages are eligible for a formal divorce, tho there is no law saying you 'have' to get divorced in texas, common law or not. 

Since he has said he was leaving three times now but hasn't, I keep thinking this is some stupid mind game. I just haven't figured out why he would be playing it. What's the point?



> I don't know what game he's playing at. It sounds now like passive-aggressive BS designed to get you to do something so he doesn't feel like the bad guy. Or to paint you as the bad guy come D time.


This is exactly what I thought, and called him on it. He was affronted and swore that wasn't it. Whatever.

Legally I do know where I stand and have known for a year. The atty's I spoke to advised me to 'play nice' till my ex (got divorced in 2005) drops his "bill of review" suit against me. 

That's a long story but amounts to my ex, whom I split up with in 2003 and was divorced formally in 2005 is actually trying to get our DIVORCE set aside (yeah i never heard of that either) so he can force me to sell my house and get half and pay off half his credit card bills (all of which have nothing to do with me, he got them years after we split up etc)

Legally he has no claim to the house because he never lived here, isn't on the mortgage or the deed, never paid one cent for it either in Down Payment, payments, utilities or upkeep etc. The legal advise there is 'he won't win, but if you get divorced now, the judge has standing to grant his request'. 

But, if he gets the divorce set aside, and I'm legally 'allowed' to be married (ie divorced or in proceedings with current hubby) the courts could grant that i'm still married to the EX,. wherein he would immediately file for another divorce so he can get as much money as possible out of me and force me to sell my house and business to pay off HIS credit cards. 

Plus it's expensive to get sued, whether or not the guy suing you is in the right.

So, legally it's in my best interest to 'play married' at least in public to current hubby till the mess with the ex gets sorted out. 

See why I feel stuck?


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Dang, girl. I didn't realize how complicated things really were. Yeah, I understand the "stuck" now. 

I didn't realize TX was a common law state. MO doesn't recognize that (or I'd have been married to her already!)

So what's the story on next February, then. Will you be able to leave? Or are you going to have to tough it out until your ex thing is over? And why is that taking so long?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

When the Ex found out I didn't have the deep pockets he thought I had (to bail him out of his debt) he put the suit on 'hold'. The ball is in his court now, so to speak. 

I think he can leave it dormant for up to two years before he has to drop it (ugh) He brought the suit last March, the same month my current hubby said he wanted to leave me (what a month!) so the clock is ticking. 

I don't know what i'm going to do yet - either now, next year or what. What I do know is that when i'm no longer under the threat of yet another ex's nonsense, I will be free to make some harder moves here. I 'could' go ahead and kick hubby to the curb now, but it would be legally and financially disastrous for me to do so.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I understand.

If the suit is dormant, could he reactivate it? And put it back on hold again? That would make it last forever. 

You mean March of THIS year?!? Oh, man!


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

snix11 said:


> Hi recent... um... I'm in denial about what exactly?
> 
> These are his words, not mine. Most of what he's saying doesn't make any sense to me - at least not logically. It all sounds like so much boilerplate I'm breaking up with you stuff.
> 
> I understand that this is where the couple parts ways. So, why is he here?


yes those are his words, and to paraphrase: i no longer want to be married to you. i will answer your questions as best i can to get you to leave me alone. i don't fully understand all of what i feel, but i don't have to. i know what i know. i don't want to be married to you.

couples live together but seperately all the time usually for financial reasons but often as well (and not openly admitted to) because they're afraid of change, and living seperately in the marital house allows for an easier transition.

the message is neon. the logic is fixed. you're in denial.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Yikes!! Now I understand your position a bit better. 

I'm sorry you are being put through this, snix. *hug*

And I wish I has some world-shattering advice for you right now.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dcrim said:


> I understand.
> 
> If the suit is dormant, could he reactivate it? And put it back on hold again? That would make it last forever.
> 
> You mean March of THIS year?!? Oh, man!



Gosh I hope not.. I think it's just two years from the original date... dormant just means the ball is on his side to do something next, not that the suit itself is gone or in abeyance. 

And it's March of LAST year that all this happened. The Ex heard (wrongly) that my business was making millions (from the 8 yr old) and thought to cash in on it by suing me. 

The same month hubby told me we weren't working out and he wanted to leave - then went into counseling with me for six months. Then said he thought things were better. Now says he lied and they weren't better and he still wants to leave.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

recent_cloud said:


> yes those are his words, and to paraphrase: i no longer want to be married to you. i will answer your questions as best i can to get you to leave me alone. i don't fully understand all of what i feel, but i don't have to. i know what i know. i don't want to be married to you.
> 
> couples live together but seperately all the time usually for financial reasons but often as well (and not openly admitted to) because they're afraid of change, and living seperately in the marital house allows for an easier transition.
> 
> the message is neon. the logic is fixed. you're in denial.


I'm not usually stupid, but what do you feel i'm denying? I don't see that i'm in denial about this...:scratchhead:


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

DownButNotOut said:


> Yikes!! Now I understand your position a bit better.
> 
> I'm sorry you are being put through this, snix. *hug*
> 
> And I wish I has some world-shattering advice for you right now.


Thanks for the hug  
Sometimes I come here for ideas on how to improve things.
Sometimes it's just nice to come here and vent. 
Sometimes I come here to find out if I'm thinking wrong (as he tells me I am) or to get an opinion on whether I'm blowing things out of proportion or am I justified in being angry/sad/confused about the way he's acting towards me. 
Sometimes I come here to help others as best I can and try and be positive. 

But I don't really expect anybody else to 'fix' my world. I messed it up, I realize it's up to me to fix it. If it is fixable.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

sigh


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I think i'm posting on this one because I just feel insulted again 

A girl he hadn't talked for at least 10 years messaged him asked him how he was, talked all about her life and her new boyfriend etc. She asked what he had been doing and how his kids were. 

He wrote back that he had divorced over 5 years ago and the two kids were fine. Didn't once mention me or the new baby. Like we don't exist. 

Grrrrr. Fine. I was just a chapter in his life that he would just soon never happened and isn't worthy of mention. AND his son. FINE.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

This really needs to stop Snix. Kick him out. Stop all this torture. 

Be done. Tell him you are done it is time for him to go.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I know. Can't kick him out. But I want to be done. How do I move on when he's still here?


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Move a kid into his spot in your bed and he can sleep in kids bed. Or...just put him back on the couch.

If you can't kick him out of the house yet, get him out of your bed!!


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I hear ya. This whole thing is so stupid. How can I ever trust anything he says again?


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