# trying to get over husband's emotional affair



## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

The affair has ended and hubby once again looks at me with adoring eyes, but it is hard for me to get past that his relationship with another woman was closer than his relationship with me. Hubby thinks he did nothing wrong since there was no sex involved and I don't think he ever talked to this woman romantically as he claims they were "just friends". It just was too deep emotionally. My therapist says when a man leans on another woman outside of marriage for emotional support it is a betrayal. 

I knew he was attracted to her and had a crush on her. He started going out with this friend who was a coworker for breakfast after his graveyard shift. These breakfasts lasted four freakin' hours. As soon as this started he started working out 2-3 hours at the gym. I knew his sudden interest was to impress her. Before he started hanging out with this coworker he described himself as very happy in our marriage. He starts seeing her then he starts comparing me to her saying I don't talk enough and we don't have communication in our marriage. He tells me he has better communication with her than with me. When i asked to meet this woman and go along to one of these breakfasts he said "no way." He for the first time became critical of me. 

The woman started avoiding my husband and they quit seeing eachother. He quit complaining about how quiet I am and said the communication is now better. I haven't changed one bit. My personality is the same. The only thing that changes is his perception when he compares me to other women. He never hid the relationship, but the amount of time he spent with her was totally inappropriate. Sometimes he would be 7 hours late home from work. Stating that he spent four hours with her and three hours at the gym. Lunch or breakfast in my opinion with a coworker is 1-1-1/2 hours tops. It has been a few months since this ended, but I am still not over the betrayal. I am afraid it will happen again. I do not know how to talk for four hours. Everyday I express love, tell my hubby I am proud of him, compliment him, ask him about his day, etc., but that all takes about 5-10 minutes of talking. He says I am the quiestest woman he ever met. I cannot change my personality for him. He used to tell me I was perfect. I am so jealous that he used to spend four hours talking to another woman. I can sum just about anything up in five minutes. I don't know how to talk for hours on end. Now I feel inadequate as I am, but I cannot change my personality.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

helenbean said:


> The affair has ended and hubby once again looks at me with adoring eyes, but it is hard for me to get past that his relationship with another woman was closer than his relationship with me. Hubby thinks he did nothing wrong since there was no sex involved and I don't think he ever talked to this woman romantically as he claims they were "just friends". It just was too deep emotionally. My therapist says when a man leans on another woman outside of marriage for emotional support it is a betrayal.
> 
> I knew he was attracted to her and had a crush on her. He started going out with this friend who was a coworker for breakfast after his graveyard shift. These breakfasts lasted four freakin' hours. As soon as this started he started working out 2-3 hours at the gym. I knew his sudden interest was to impress her. Before he started hanging out with this coworker he described himself as very happy in our marriage. He starts seeing her then he starts comparing me to her saying I don't talk enough and we don't have communication in our marriage. He tells me he has better communication with her than with me. When i asked to meet this woman and go along to one of these breakfasts he said "no way." He for the first time became critical of me.
> 
> The woman started avoiding my husband and they quit seeing eachother. He quit complaining about how quiet I am and said the communication is now better. I haven't changed one bit. My personality is the same. The only thing that changes is his perception when he compares me to other women. He never hid the relationship, but the amount of time he spent with her was totally inappropriate. Sometimes he would be 7 hours late home from work. Stating that he spent four hours with her and three hours at the gym. Lunch or breakfast in my opinion with a coworker is 1-1-1/2 hours tops. It has been a few months since this ended, but I am still not over the betrayal. I am afraid it will happen again. I do not know how to talk for four hours. Everyday I express love, tell my hubby I am proud of him, compliment him, ask him about his day, etc., but that all takes about 5-10 minutes of talking. He says I am the quiestest woman he ever met. I cannot change my personality for him. He used to tell me I was perfect. I am so jealous that he used to spend four hours talking to another woman. I can sum just about anything up in five minutes. I don't know how to talk for hours on end. Now I feel inadequate as I am, but I cannot change my personality.


*Helen: No offense, but what concrete assurances or proof do you have that says that his affair didn't go physical?

That's an awfully long period of time to be playing "footsie" and making "goo-goo eyes" with some woman from his office! Just sayin!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I know his behavior was highly inappropriate. My therapist said "what makes you think he isn't sleeping with her surely you don't think they're at the restaurant for four hours." He made the comment once that "she isn't interested in me she wants someone rich and good looking" I would have rather had him say that he wasn't interested in her. I don't think he slept with her based on that statement and the fact that he never hid the relationship. Usually affairs are shrouded in secrecy. I don't think he admits to himself consciously that he did anything wrong. He did say to me just after the affair ended "I don't deserve you" so on some level he knows what he did was wrong. He also refused to go to marriage counseling. We were arguing over his relationship with this woman and he accused me of being controlling and I told him four hours was inappropriate lets go to a counselor and see what they say. He said we could go to a counselor, but that we couldn't talk about this woman which is the issue we were having so I know he knew what he was doing was wrong on some level, but I think he has successfully lied to himself and isn't completely honest with himself. I think if he had had sex he would be a lot more guilty than he is acting.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Helen, an emotional betrayal is a betrayal and hurts just as much, if not more to some woman, as a physical betrayal.

Your H lied to you during the EA, he gave affection that you should have had to another woman, and he shared a part of himself with this woman, a part that he had promised to give only to you. That's why you feel betrayed. Until your H can understand the pain he has caused, you will not heal.

Some people ignore EA, but I don't think the relationship ever really recovers if its in a state of neglect. Being unwilling to deal with the betrayal, ot rug-sweeping, leads to resentment, fear, doubt and anger. Your H has to be completely honest with all his actions and communications, and if he's unwilling to do that, you have every right to question what else he is not sharing.

I'm very sorry you are going through this.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Your H has gone away over the line, and I suspect the A has gone further than an EA, just because he told you about it does not mean that he is just giving you some of the information. He has betrayed you and needs to realise the consequences of this. He has shown no remorse from the looks of it:

1. contact the OW's H and let him know about this relationship, tell him everything (there is a chance that this may restart again)
2. Tell your husband that this cannot be rug swept and you do not believe his version of the facts. Insist on MC
3. If he refuses to go to MC then you should approach a lawyer.
4. Start the 180 on him, and let him see what life without you can be like.
5. Consider IC for yourself to help you deal with the hurt
6. Find out from the lawyer, what rights you have and go from there.
7. Surround yourself with family and friends for support, confide in a close friend to help you through this

You will get through this


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> I am afraid it will happen again. I do not know how to talk for four hours. Everyday I express love, tell my hubby I am proud of him, compliment him, ask him about his day, etc., but that all takes about 5-10 minutes of talking. He says I am the quiestest woman he ever met. I cannot change my personality for him. He used to tell me I was perfect. I am so jealous that he used to spend four hours talking to another woman. I can sum just about anything up in five minutes. I don't know how to talk for hours on end. Now I feel inadequate as I am, but I cannot change my personality.


Is there ANY way you can persuade him to try marriage counseling? He seems very open in telling you why he was drawn to her, and I think it's good that he's a little self aware. But that's just a first step - he's not admitting to you or to himself that he betrayed you, and he's not taking responsibility for it. He needs to do that and to see how HE contributed to your marriage before, during, and now after the affair. 

It will be hard for you to genuinely be able to put his affair in the past if he isn't willing to do some hard work NOW. Can you make marriage counseling a condition of reconciliation? How invested is he in reconciliation?


----------



## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

He is not willing to go to marriage counseling. I can tell he is tuned into our marriage now. He texts me often, gets me flowers, spends every evening with me watching movies. He comes home for dinner on his lunch break. He is home on time now. I really love this man and I'm glad I didn't leave. I was contemplating leaving and if he was still seeing her I would have had to leave. I was trying to decide whether to stay or go and I said a prayer out of desperation "God, please save my marriage" and I don't think he ever went out with her again after that. I've never had an immediate answer to a prayer before. I know this, if he came home from work 6 or 7 hours late again and the majority of that time was spent with a female coworker I would pack my stuff and leave. I wouldn't put up with that again for months. I have told him that I almost left him.


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

helenbean said:


> He is not willing to go to marriage counseling. I can tell he is tuned into our marriage now. He texts me often, gets me flowers, spends every evening with me watching movies. He comes home for dinner on his lunch break. He is home on time now. I really love this man and I'm glad I didn't leave. I was contemplating leaving and if he was still seeing her I would have had to leave. I was trying to decide whether to stay or go and I said a prayer out of desperation "God, please save my marriage" and I don't think he ever went out with her again after that. I've never had an immediate answer to a prayer before. I know this, if he came home from work 6 or 7 hours late again and the majority of that time was spent with a female coworker I would pack my stuff and leave. I wouldn't put up with that again for months. I have told him that I almost left him.


Hang on a minute. Stop right there. Whether he is "tuned in" to your marriage or not is completely friggen irrelevant.

YOU are not happy. 
YOU have been betrayed. 
YOU are stressed out, worried, disconnected
All as a result of what HE did.

You need to state what YOU want. If that is MC, then it's your responsibility to make it a deal breaker.

See AINE's post above and follow it TO THE LETTER. It is the most concise set of actions that you MUST take if you have any chance of saving your relationship in the long run (and short run in my opinion). Praying is not going to help. Actions are.

I assure you, the quicker and the harsher you act to respect yourself, your rights and your emotional well-being, the more chance you have of saving your marriage.

By the way, I call total bullsh^t on the EA. It was physical. I bet the farm on it. In fact I'll put $100 on the fact is is still going and has gone underground. You don't need 7 hours to f^ck. You only need a lunch break. 

BEWARE and good luck.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Helenbean, I think your husband lied to you. This was a full blown affair, who takes a 4 hours breakfast/lunch? What did they do, stayed at the counter eating for 4 hours?

That is why is was so critical of you. He was blaming you for everything to justify his cheating.

What happen is the OW found someone else and dump his sorry behind. 
So now he is appreciative of your marriage. 

Let him know you are on to him and he has hurt and damage your marriage. He needs to go to MC. You have to insist or you don't have a marriage for very long. As soon as the opportunity presents itself again, he will be chasing some other woman or her again.

Take care of yourself and protect yourself. Read what Aine said and follow her suggestions. Wise up girl and stop buying the load of s**t he is selling you. You are being played until next time. You are his back up plan.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Helen, if you want to save your marriage you have to approach this situation differently. 

*pretending* nothing bad happened doesn't make it so. Your H is pretending-or as we betrayed spouses like to say-lying.

You are *pretending* he has reconnected to the marriage, rug-sweeping. And he texts an brings you flowers. Lots of unfaithful spouses do that, too.

If you want your marriage to thrive it has to start from a place of honesty and respect. Your H must respect you enough to address your valid concerns about his fidelity. He must be honest. You should respect yourself enough to demand this in your relationship.

One more aspect of this you are not addressing. So he cheated on you, and you are aware of this. Was there any consequences for his behavior? Did he give you complete transparency in his communications? Give you passwords to his accounts? Validate your concerns? Acknowledge your pain or insecurity? Agree to counseling? If you answer no, why in the world do you think he won't do it again?


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

aine said:


> Your H has gone away over the line, and I suspect the A has gone further than an EA, just because he told you about it does not mean that he is just giving you some of the information. He has betrayed you and needs to realize the consequences of this. He has shown no remorse from the looks of it:
> 
> 1. contact the OW's H and let him know about this relationship, tell him everything (there is a chance that this may restart again)
> 2. Tell your husband that this cannot be rug swept and you do not believe his version of the facts. Insist on MC
> ...



Cheaters minimize

in addition to the above quoted ideas, add:
1) Get tested today for STD's
2) tell him - No man or woman spends that much time alone together and "nothing" happens. You were born, you just weren't born yesterday
3) timeline - this has been going on longer than he claims (or you beginning to notice for that matter). He needs to cough up where and when
4) No more jealousy - how can you be jealous of his moronic choices - you can be angry and disappointed - no more jealousy
5) What has he done to show you that he has affair proofed his relationships?
6) can't be stressed enough - I'll reiterate from above - MC - if he refuses, seek out a lawyer immediately. *DO NOT ALLOW THIS TO BE RUG SWEPT*
7) consequences? Has he faced any?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your husband was out cruising, looking for strange.

He might do it again.

MC is vital. If he doesn't want it, maybe he doesn't deserve the marriage?

Any children? How long have you been married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CTPlay (Apr 26, 2015)

I dont' read anything regarding what issues he may have that caused him to look elsewhere.

That MC would sound like a good idea. Perhaps individual MC would be more acceptable to him??


----------



## CTPlay (Apr 26, 2015)

Maybe it's just me, but is the threat of eminent divorce the only language a WS understands to get any reality in these situations?


----------



## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

helenbean said:


> I know his behavior was highly inappropriate. My therapist said "what makes you think he isn't sleeping with her surely you don't think they're at the restaurant for four hours." He made the comment once that "she isn't interested in me she wants someone rich and good looking" I would have rather had him say that he wasn't interested in her. I don't think he slept with her based on that statement and the fact that he never hid the relationship. Usually affairs are shrouded in secrecy.
> 
> Helen,
> 
> ...


----------



## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Your husband is a cheater. Cheaters lie, it is that simple, they only admit to what they absolutely can't deny (even then they will sometimes try).

If you read some of the stories here it was always "only a friend", that is what my Ex said, along with "she's young enough to be my daughter" & "she has a fiance that she lives with". By the time I found out he had already broken up with her and was devoted and groveling and suddenly the doting husband. Well his EA was a PA and he didn't admit it until I found the proof. Otherwise I would have been in the dark.

Don't get lulled into a false sense of security, something made him go looking in the first place. He feels entitled to something more because things with you can't compare to the shiny, new excitement of an affair with the cute young co-worker. Old story, predictable ending and it isn't always happily ever after.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

poida said:


> Hang on a minute. Stop right there. Whether he is "tuned in" to your marriage or not is completely friggen irrelevant.
> 
> YOU are not happy.
> YOU have been betrayed.
> ...


Agreed, what is to stop him going back to the way things were when he had the A? Now he is doing all to get you in a place where you are comfortable and trust him. Yes, it is true that we should look at this actions, which are positive, but is that enough for you and will he sustain it? Has he really changed? Imo, there was something wrong with the marriage relationship to begin with so MC will help you both see what that is, at the moment, flowers, coming home early, being a 'good boy' is just putting a plaster on an open wound.

You are both rug sweeping to a certain extent and I can bet you will let this fester and you will be the one to explode, get professional help. 
If he wont give you what you want it means he does not want to actually face up to what he has done, he probably still dwells in his thought life on the sweet memories/moments with her. You are the one who was wronged and he is the one who has to make it right. What you want/need should be non-negotiable. Why do BS settle for less to keep the peace? Don't do it, you will regret it.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I have to agree with Personal - couples need to spend at least 15 hours a week together as a couple, no other distractions. Couples need to maintain emotional intimacy, and need to spend time together like they did when they were dating. Without it, emotional intimacy and that connection between couples erodes.

If he was so taken with someone else he says he could talk with, it's likely that he's missing that emotional intimacy in your marriage. He wants to be able to share his thoughts and feelings and hopes and dreams and plans for the future. 

Have you two ever been able to talk with each other? When you first met, did you talk for hours? What did you do on dates? Maybe it's time to get to know each other all over again.


----------



## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

We spend every evening together watching movies. We both comment on what we are watching...the actors who can recognize them first bet on what is gonna happen next, etc. I do share my thoughts and feelings hopes and dreams with him. I just don't know how to talk for hours. That is not my personality. I am a listener and a responder. I consider myself to be an open person. I just don't know how to talk for hours. I make my point in five or ten minutes and then there is nothing left to say unless someone else is talking. When we first got together it was no different. My personality hasn't changed. I have googled how to talk more. There is nothing out there that can help. Mostly stuff relates to being shy and I am not shy. I have asked my hubby what he would like me to talk about. Perhaps I could read up on a subject he is interested in and have something to say. He doesn't want me to do that. He said he wants me to talk about "nothing". I don't know how to do that. I don't bottle things up. I do share my feelings and ask him about his. I am a relativity content and happy person. There is no drama in my life aside from hubby's ea. That leaves me nothing to talk about. Every day i tell hubby how much i love him, i compliment him often, tell him how much i appreciate his hard work I ask him about his day and offer my support. That doesn't take an hour. Now instead of being happy with myself as I am and relaxed I spend most of my time thinking "oh **** I have nothing to say" and panicking. Most people have trouble with talking too much and interrupting. Because I am a good listener and responder I am very popular with other people since most people like to do all the talking. Hubby describes himself as a listener too. I told him he could talk more and I'd join in. He says since I am a girl and women do all the talking that the burden is on me. I overheard hubby on the phone to ow. He talked constantly for two hours. I didn't hear any pauses where ow was talking. I was hurt that he doesn't share that much with me. If hubby talked more I'd talk more. I cannot carry on a conversation by myself, but it has all been put on me.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

helenbean said:


> The affair has ended and hubby once again looks at me with adoring eyes, but it is hard for me to get past that his relationship with another woman was closer than his relationship with me. Hubby thinks he did nothing wrong since there was no sex involved and I don't think he ever talked to this woman romantically as he claims they were *"just friends*". It just was too deep emotionally. My therapist says when a man leans on another woman outside of marriage for emotional support it is a betrayal.
> 
> *I knew he was attracted to her and had a crush on her. He started going out with this friend who was a coworker for breakfast after his graveyard shift. These breakfasts lasted four freakin' hours. As soon as this started he started working out 2-3 hours at the gym. I knew his sudden interest was to impress her. Before he started hanging out with this coworker he described himself as very happy in our marriage. He starts seeing her then he starts comparing me to her saying I don't talk enough and we don't have communication in our marriage. He tells me he has better communication with her than with me. When i asked to meet this woman and go along to one of these breakfasts he said "no way." He for the first time became critical of me.
> *
> The woman started avoiding my husband and they quit seeing eachother. He quit complaining about how quiet I am and said the communication is now better. I haven't changed one bit. My personality is the same. The only thing that changes is his perception when he compares me to other women. He never hid the relationship, but the amount of time he spent with her was totally inappropriate. Sometimes he would be 7 hours late home from work. Stating that he spent four hours with her and three hours at the gym. Lunch or breakfast in my opinion with a coworker is 1-1-1/2 hours tops. It has been a few months since this ended, but I am still not over the betrayal. I am afraid it will happen again. I do not know how to talk for four hours. Everyday I express love, tell my hubby I am proud of him, compliment him, ask him about his day, etc., but that all takes about 5-10 minutes of talking. He says I am the quiestest woman he ever met. I cannot change my personality for him. He used to tell me I was perfect. I am so jealous that he used to spend four hours talking to another woman. I can sum just about anything up in five minutes. I don't know how to talk for hours on end. Now I feel inadequate as I am, but I cannot change my personality.



The first bolded "just friends"- you've read 'NJF'....what are the trigger words for an affair when asked? "we are JUST FRIENDS" according to NJF those are the Uh-OH words. The second bolded part is absolutely the most common thing I hear people saying when their spouse has an A. EA or PA- they are suddenly very critical. They compare you to the AP. THAT is a place where you can never win. In thier eyes, they see no wrong in the AP. She is the embodiment of everything he ever wanted and some things he never knew he wanted(VOMIT). Its called fairytale land. She can do NO wrong. You could tell him EXACTLY the same things she did, talk as long as she did and it wouldnt affect him the way she did. 

I know that is a very painful thing to hear but its true. When my H was interested in his AP, I was suddenly old, fat and weak in his eyes. Now keep in mind she was merely 7 yrs younger and about the same size and while her power is in the corporate world, mine is physical and mental/emotional. He saw nothing in me suddenly. Suddenly she was all he ever thought about, he comapred her to me and I lost every time. I could have hung the moon and during his EA it would not have mattered - bc he wasnt looking at me for good. All he could see was her and how I was in the way of that. Those are the cold hard facts of an A. You LOSE in any comparison. Suddenly they complain about things that were never a problem before. You can do nothing that will be as good (in his mind during the A) as what she did/does. SHe could puke in his face and he'd think she was pretty when she threw up. 

Now that my H's A is 3 yrs in the past - I am"beautiful and smart". I am all that to him. BUT I havent changed. I am still the same woman he married(just as you are the same woman your H married). But it seems that you are now more valuable to them bc they see what they could have lost on a whim. That you stood by them, that you loved them when they werent lovable. So its not about who you are so much as who they see when they look at you based on who they are.

ALL of that said- you can make a bigger effort to be more chatty, but it will never have the same effect on him that his marathon convos with her did. ....Bc life with you is REAL. She was nothing more than a fantasy and fantasies are great, right? Now, you can try to talk a bit more over dinner, chat via text some. Read the news, get a hobby together, those kinds of things give you something to chat about. They build a connection. A REAL connection.

One last thing- your H needs to accept and acknowledge that no matter what he wants to call it- an affair, a friendship, a party....it devastated you. It makes you feel(rightly so) betrayed. He gave something taht was yours(his emotions) to someone else. THAT is infidelity. Start there. See If your pain eases by him doing a better job of acknowledging AND addressing how he hurt you. IF you dont, he will do this again bc he has no concept of what he's done to you and to the marriage. AND he absolutley MUST stop the comparisons of you to her. It is unfair and hurtful. IF he wants something of you then let him say that but the comparisons are hurtful at best and destructive at worst. They cause you to lose your self esteem and to question who you are as a wife. There is nothing wrong with change but to force it through making you feel inadequate is not helpful. How can he compare you to another woman negatively then say "oh lets talk for hours"? All that does is shut you down. He needs to be aware of that and curb it immediately. SHE is not the standard by which you are measured.


And finally, how often are they still seeing each other? Even just in passing? How much interaction does he have with her? 

ANd the sex, thats an issue. No interest in sex when he had it before the A, it disappeared during the A(common just as a huge increase in drive is)and hasnt returned at all it sounds like. You need to get to the bottom of that.

BTW I am now posting as Checkmate1 but formerly I was 'Canttrustu' if you want to read anything about my situation with my H's coworker and their EA- the thread was in Feb 2012 for several mos.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

helenbean said:


> I know his behavior was highly inappropriate. My therapist said "what makes you think he isn't sleeping with her surely you don't think they're at the restaurant for four hours." He made the comment once that "she isn't interested in me she wants someone rich and good looking" I would have rather had him say that he wasn't interested in her. I don't think he slept with her based on that statement and the fact that he never hid the relationship. Usually affairs are shrouded in secrecy. I don't think he admits to himself consciously that he did anything wrong. He did say to me just after the affair ended "I don't deserve you" so on some level he knows what he did was wrong. He also refused to go to marriage counseling. We were arguing over his relationship with this woman and he accused me of being controlling and I told him four hours was inappropriate lets go to a counselor and see what they say. He said we could go to a counselor, but that we couldn't talk about this woman which is the issue we were having so I know he knew what he was doing was wrong on some level, but I think he has successfully lied to himself and isn't completely honest with himself. I think if he had had sex he would be a lot more guilty than he is acting.


I dont know if your H did or didnt have sex with AP. But What I do know is that cheaters lie. They lie about most everything having to do with the A unless you can prove otherwise. 

Im sorry but guilt was not on his mind. If it were he wouldnt be spending HOURS with another woman that he was admittedly attracted to. So whether or not he did have sex with her cannot be based on A) what he says B) how he behaves. The only way most times to know what did or didnt happen-especially sex- is to have proof of it that it did happen. You cant really prove a negative so proving he didnt would be more difficult. The Fact is he put himself in a positon, many times where it could have happened and most likely wanted it to happen had she not been "too good for him" . What a thing to say. It says something about the opinion he has of you as well bc you are not too good for him apparently and yes keep in mind not so much what he did say but what he didnt say which is that he wasnt interested in her....and the evidence shows he was VERY interested, doesnt it?

Again, do they still work together?


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Myselff said:


> I guess it is a good start that you are having some self-criticism and *the fact that you recognize that you did something wrong* but you still have to change these things .
> Communicating with your husband must be substantial. Clearly in five minutes even if you are a vortex speaker , there is not enough time to have effective communication with him. You have to extend the thematic cycles of your discussions and the duration. It would be nice to find a common hobby with your husband. You have to work quite the issue of the discussions with your husband. The communication I think that is the problem in your relationship. You have to work on it.
> As for what the marriage counselor says if he cheated on you only by thinking this is big conversation. You have to find out what made him to have the desire to be with another woman. Sure something is really wrong there. And you have to find it. Good luck anyway.


What exactly did she do "wrong"? The way I see it here is that her H cheated, hasnt admitted to it and the only person being held accountable is his wife. Sure maybe there are some requirements that she needs to address to make thier marriage better. But you know- he did nothing, had no complaints before this 'perfect woman' came along. Now his wife is the one who did somethng wrong?  HE wont even acknowledge that his relationship with this woman was "wrong" or a betrayal....She can move mountains to fix this relationship and until he is away from the AP and acknowledges what he did and what part of HIM is falling short, nothing she does will matter.......I speak from experience sadly. The only thing that allowed my H to see that what he was saying and doing was wrong and indeed an affair, was to get the HELL AWAY FROM THE AP. COMPLETE NC. 

We have no way of knowing that he's not sitting at lunch wiht her every day do we? The flowers, the cuddles, the kind words.....my H did ALL of that DURING HIS A and after I started to question him on it. THEN he started with the flowers, the chats etc to throw me off the idea that he was involved with someone else. Its typical WS activity.

Unless or until he gets away from HER, his wife doesnt stand a chance.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Helen,
A little perspective from the WS side of the coin. Several years ago I had an EA with an old girlfriend who popped back into my life after 20 years. From what you've posted in this thread, I'll offer a few observations.

First, the idea that you have done something wrong or neglected your marriage... yeah ok - maybe you have maybe you haven't, but it's immaterial. Even if you did, it's not an excuse or justification for cheating - period. The end. Sure there are likely things you could do better - we've all got them. But nothing justifies an affair, do not accept any fraction of the blame for his infidelity. 

Second, The talking thing... Here's the thing there. You know every thing about each other. When you wake up, when you go to the bathroom, why his breath is bad at night, what color underwear he has on, what flavor toothpaste he's using... there is very little new to discover in conversation between you. Discovering something new about someone in a conversation is the low hanging fruit. It's easy, it's exciting, and it has virtually no comparison with the conversation between a husband and wife. Throw on top of that the excitement and fantasy as checkmate mentioned and there's just no way a conversation with someone he's known intimately for years and years can have that new car smell to it like one with his AP.

Third, and I just learned this lesson myself. That woman has to be out of his life AND yours totally - 100% - before this is over. And the only way you're really going to get that is to clue her H in. I fought this with my wife and AP for years... and just this month, after three years of complete NC my AP decides to email me. THREE YEARS!!! and that's a full two years after the EA ended so we're talking five full years later and my wife is still dealing with this sh!t. Well now I'm three years smarter so when my wife went off after the AP via her H I did nothing but stand back and support her. And now. Finally. I think it's really over and gone. So don't mess around here, don't take half measures. This is war, a war for your marriage. If you want to win fight like it. Do the things Aine listed. I was on this site for a long time after my EA - they work - they are the best advice you'll get here. 

Lastly... I'm like some others here. I'm pretty skeptical that this stayed strictly emotional. Those are some very long meals together. I'm a former cheater... cheaters lie. It's the only thing in this that you can bank on 100%. As long as he continues to deny any wrong doing, as long as this woman is still a part of your lives you will still be dealing with this. The only way to make it go away is pull it through the knot hole so to speak... it will get worse for sure - he'll fight you kicking and screaming... but it won't start to get better until you go here.

Best of luck... sorry you're here.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Third, and I just learned this lesson myself. That woman has to be out of his life AND yours totally - 100% - before this is over. And the only way you're really going to get that is to clue her H in. I fought this with my wife and AP for years... and just this month, after three years of complete NC my AP decides to email me. THREE YEARS!!! and that's a full two years after the EA ended so we're talking five full years later and my wife is still dealing with this sh!t. Well now I'm three years smarter so when my wife went off after the AP via her H I did nothing but stand back and support her. And now. Finally. I think it's really over and gone. *So don't mess around here, don't take half measures. This is war, a war for your marriage. If you want to win fight like it. Do the things Poida listed. * I was on this site for a long time after my EA - they work - they are the best advice you'll get here.


:iagree:

Listen to what Sigma said here and you have a chance.

Sigma, Nice to see you posting again.


----------



## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Helen

First, my "credentials". I a BS, 3 1/2 years in a strong R with my H. He had 3 EA's, the longest of which was 2 1/2 years. The other two were 1 1/2 years and 1 year. They ran concurrently. My H had a different relationship with each woman as they fed my H different emotional kibbles. When I confronted my H, I hit him hard. I had already called an attorney and let my H know we were getting a divorce because of his betrayals. When he said he wanted to save the M, I made it clear it was on my time and on my terms. There was going to be no minimizing or blaming. H stuck to his story that these were just friendships. It took an MC about 6 weeks out from confrontation to convince him these were EA's. 

Your H's relationship with OW sounds similar to my H's. Your H put OW up on a pedestal and, as a consequence, he tore you down. His relationship with her was a breeding ground of discontentment in your M. Friendships don't breed discontentment....affairs do. I also leave open the possibility that this could have been a PA, however, I think your H's betrayal and subsequent actions are grounds enough for a firm response on your part. I respect your conclusion that it never went physical. Your H certainly had opportunity, as did my H. Initially, I thought one of the A's was physical. I was MORE pissed when I found out that H didn't recognize that OW for the **** that she was, but instead thought that she was just a nice and fun person to be with. PUKE. My H had these women so far up on pedestals that it would have debased them to think of them sexually. 

Helen, you don't need to change. You don't need to have your marriage defined by arbitrary rules of sexual and verbal interactions. There is intimacy everywhere in marriage! Couples define their marriages as they see fit. What works for you and your H may not work for others. Also, you are you. Your H knew that when he married you. If you become someone you are not, how authentic is your marriage then? Your H is practicing a standard wayward response with this affair. He is blame-shifting. What gets me is that some TAM members on your thread are blame-shifting too!!!! Don't accept responsibility for his wayward actions. Helen, if your H was not content in the M, he should have come to YOU to fix it. You have clearly said that he was fine before he met OW. However, even if he wasn't, he was wrong to turn to her to feed his ego. You H has accepted no responsibility for the emotional well-being of your M.

You have every right to feel betrayed and insecure. You are asking the right question...How do I know he will not do this again? By you talking more? Nope!!!! The way you will know is when your H admits his wrong-doing, expresses sincere remorse and explores his reasons for making the crappy decision he did. Not focusing on what YOU did wrong but what is broken in him. Once he has recognized his part in this, if you two decide that you need to change things in your M, then go for it. But YOU cannot do with by yourself.

This issue will continue to eat at you until H recognizes his part in this mess. It sounds like things have returned to "normal" for the two of you, but you know it hasn't. Your H has backed you into an emotional corner by wounding you, then refusing to address the problem in MC. He is refusing you the resources for you to heal. Helen, you need to fight your way out of this trap. He has not suffered any consequences for his affair. You need to make him suffer consequences Helen. Its a hard and scary decision. You can let this sit and this A will eat away at you. You will continue to wonder if he will do it again. Your M will suffer a long, slow, painful death. Or, you can put it all on the line now and have a chance at true R.

Good luck. Sorry you are here.


----------



## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

Helen - What is the status of the relationship currently with OW. Checkmate asked this and it is important. NC is critical.


----------



## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

sigma1299 said:


> Helen,
> A little perspective from the WS side of the coin. Several years ago I had an EA with an old girlfriend who popped back into my life after 20 years. From what you've posted in this thread, I'll offer a few observations.
> 
> *First, the idea that you have done something wrong or neglected your marriage... yeah ok - maybe you have maybe you haven't, but it's immaterial. Even if you did, it's not an excuse or justification for cheating - period.* The end. Sure there are likely things you could do better - we've all got them. But nothing justifies an affair, do not accept any fraction of the blame for his infidelity.
> ...


:iagree: HERE HERE, Sigma!!!

OP - Whether or not you let yor spouse down, it absolutely is NO justification.

REAL couples work together.
REAL couples communicate their needs and wants

On the other hand...

REAL cheaters jump on every chance or excuse to do what they wanted to do to begin with without ever truly making the effort to take care of business in their relationship.

Just my two cents worth....


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Just one question when you say every case is unique- have you personally experienced infidelity? On either side? Bc the fact is the characters change but the story stays the same. CHeaters lie. And both are not responsible for the A. Only he is responsible for his actions. IF he was unhappy he was responsible to work thru that with his wife not get a GF. Im not "pissed" but I dont like the incinuation that she is in any way at fault for his A. And the marriage cannot be fixed- including the communication until HE stops interacting with OW AND ceases ANY and ALL contact with her. STEP 1 MUST be complete NC. Period.

The title of this thread is "trying to get OVER my husbands emotional affair" and the truth is she cant even begin to heal w/o full acknowledgement by her H that this is his and his alone and to start to help her he must do what it takes. he must do the work and the onus is on HIM to get this started THEN and only then can they even begin to discuss the marriage problems. Until he has NC and has owned what he did, he can never look at the issues objectively bc he is still making comparisons. Thats my point- He hasnt owned a thing. NOT a thing. So for us to harp on what she did 'wrong' isnt productive IMHO. Unless he owns reality- that he cheated. Then all that really happened is that he got a better spouse w/o doing the work to earn that after getting a GF. What a deal eh? And so why wouldnt he do it again?


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

If there are problems in the marriage other than his infidelity they will both share responsibility for those issues - almost without doubt. BUT. Infidelity is an issue of its own and one that he bears 100% of the responsibility for. Stepping outside of the marriage is a decision he made all on his own - Helen didn't get to participate in that one so he owns it all the way. What may have happened or not have happened as a precursor is really immaterial. He broke a promise. 

And you know... you think every case is unique and the details no doubt are but if you spend enough time here you come to realize that the underlying themes, actions, and stories are all very depressingly similar.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

sigma1299 said:


> If there are problems in the marriage other than his infidelity they will both share responsibility for those issues - almost without doubt. BUT. Infidelity is an issue of its own and one that he bears 100% of the responsibility for. Stepping outside of the marriage is a decision he made all on his own - Helen didn't get to participate in that one so he owns it all the way. What may have happened or not have happened as a precursor is really immaterial. He broke a promise.
> 
> *And you know... you think every case is unique and the details no doubt are but if you spend enough time here you come to realize that the underlying themes, actions, and stories are all very depressingly similar*.


BINGO and exactly what I am saying. There is a reason people refer to the 'cheaters handbook' and can pretty much predict how a WS will react to certain things...bc the truth is they arent as different as one would think. I remember thinking "not my H, he's different" sorry but he wasnt, nor is anyone who takes the easy way out....and yes cheating is the easy way at least temporarily. Its much 'easier' than addressing the issues with a spouse and living with that conversation. Easier that is until you get caught.


----------



## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

So Helen

You are not responsible for your H's affair.

You will not heal from this until your H acknowledges his betrayal, is truly remorseful and is willing to address his actions with honesty and transparency. Your H must be a participant in your healing.

You will not heal until you regain trust in your H.

What do you need from us to move forward?


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Myselff said:


> first you have to fix your self, your relationship with the other person, and after that the marriage.


Nope, Nope and Nope!!!!

The very first thing that has to be fixed is that affair. Until the affair is dead - until there is complete No Contact and full remorse on his part... everything else you said is on hold. And. The longer is stays on hold the more difficult it becomes to address if and when the WS comes around.

And really any effort to address those things only mask and further buries the affair itself by deflecting his responsibilities. Nothing can happen until that affair is dealt with and sweeping it under the rug as they have currently done is NOT addressing it.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Ok listen Helen, you CANNOT nice your husband out of an affair! Pick up a book, ask anyone who has been through this- it does NOT work.

Your H needs to own his choices and THEN you can work on the rest but the last you wrote he was saying it was merely a "friendship". Well I have friends, even Male friends- NONE of them would I spend 4 hours at lunch with and some of them are LIFE LONG friends! Friends go to lunch for an hour- hour and a half and go back to their lives they do not spend 4 hours bellied up to the table, they do not inspire trips to the gym to look better for them, and they do not cause you to look at your spouse in a negative light bc they are a friend to the MARRIAGE. 

This is the last I will post until you come back. This isnt about whether or not we agree or disagree with each other I am not interested in arguing with other forum members in your absence. Ive given my opinion simply and directly- HE cannot get back into this marriage until the lies stop. You cannot be nice enough to him to make him decide "oh that girl? na, I'll go back to my wife and realize how perfect she is" It just doesnt happen in affairland. Most ppl in A's are drug out "kicking and screaming" just as Sigma mentioned. If she dumped him there is a good chance he's still pining for her. THAT makes it pretty much impossible to move forward no matter what you do to be a better wife. BUT the best way to stop that pining is to drag the A out into the cold light of day. Take away his secrets with her. Change the dynamic of his thougths relative to her. YES there will absolutley be time for that! AFTER the A is addressed!!!!! No one is saying you dont have work to do, I think we disagree on the order. I can tell you that I could have worshipped my H everyday when he got home from work and you know what? It wouldnt have mattered bc he just spent 10 hours with HER having her stroke his ego. UNTIL that stops by NC, you do not stand a prayer in fixing anything. 

Helen get to work, on the A. YOU read NJF- what does it say is the MOST imperative thing????? NC right? An expert tells you exactly what we all here have experienced. UNTIL NC you will not get thru to your H bc all he can see/hear is OW. Do yourself a favor, find some of the oldies who are WS' around here, ask them if you can nice them out AND ask them if they cheated bc of trouble in their marriage or bc they were selfish and there was opportunity at the door...PLS ask THEM. Ask the former cheaters who have successful R now. Do that for yourself. 

And again please dont mistake me for a newbie around here. I used to post under Canttrustu for over a year. I just cant remember my pw and had stopped posting to work on my own marriage- AFTER dragging him out kicking and screaming it takes years to repair.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Myselff said:


> I am afraid that if she waits until the end of the affair their marriage will be dead - if their marriage is not already over. Probably it is over. Hmm.. So let's see what you say. She does nothing at all and she waits until her husband end his probably passionate affair in which there's probably no problem and go back to their destroyed relationship. Does it seems logical that thing to you? Why her husband to end the affair? I don't see even one reason. But I see you say to her to wait. Ok. Lets say that's she waits. What happens next? Her husband end the affair with the other women because...? Why he to end the relationship if he has feelings for the other women and feel nothing for the wife? .There is no answer to that. Thats a question with no answer. If she does what you say he will ask for a divorce maximum in a month. Why? Because inaction which is recommended by you would have made the other woman to have won his heart in a second. Dignity is excellent , but everything has a limit. Please dont have illusions . He is not going to end it until something change between them for the best. Everything else is just not true.


Oh you misunderstand me... She most definitely should not wait. Not at all. She needs to attack - hard and fast - and as long as her H is in that affair he is just as much the enemy as the OW. She has to bust that affair - I promise you he is never going to do it voluntarily - not in a million years. 

Nope. Waiting is the kiss of death here. But to try to address any issues they have individually or collectively before that affair is dead is wasted effort and counter productive. Nothing can be addressed while there are three people in their marriage.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Checkmate is right... 

Nicing someone out of an affair never works... it's been tried a million times and it just doesn't work. It's like trying to fight a fire with a squirt gun... 

Helen as Checkmate suggested... do some reading... message some of the veterans here. Nicing a WS out of an affair is a fool's errand. I know what's being said sounds logical, that restoring the love in your marriage should work, but there is nothing logical about an affair NOTHING!!! The only thing that will work is to beat that damn affair and OW out of your marriage... THEN work on your marriage, but not before.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Myselff said:


> That sounds reasonable but I still have some gaps to my consideration. Why her husband will end the affair with the other woman if the situation between is them is like Kramer VS Kramer ? I guess it has to be a reason - a good one- to do that. Still no answer from you to that question. My guess?Unfortunately she is going to lose her husband. I hope I get wrong.


Myself, 

there is an old saying with regard to saving your M from a cheating spouse....."you have to be willing to risk it all ........to save it"
I understand your thought process but you are trying to be rational about a very very irrational issue/decision her H made. He isnt rational right now so she has to be the one to get this back on the track. And the only way to do that is to put her foot down. VERY often you have to get a WS all the way to D papers before they listen, sadly.

IF her H is still in contact in ANY way wiht OW- that has got to stop before anything else can happen. COMPLETELY stop. Not even "hello".


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I've always been a fan of the saying, "get your heart in or your ass out" and IMO that's the choice she needs to present her H. Why would he choose to end the affair when presented with that choice? Well ideally because he does love her and hopefully being presented the choice of losing her will cause him to realize what's on the line. He's not "in love with her" or he wouldn't be involved in an affair but he may well still love her and not want to lose her. And if that's not the case... if he'd rather have the other woman isn't she better off to know that now before she spends months or years working on herself, her marriage and trying to make him happy when in the end it will all be naught and wasted time and effort? You can't make someone love you. If he's done they're both better off to realize and accept it sooner rather than later. TAM is covered up with stories of false reconciliation, where the BS didn't bust the affair hard enough only to find out years later that all that effort and pain was wasted. 

Trying to nice a WS out of an affair turns it into a competition. Can I make my WS love me more than he/she loves their AP? That's so messed up it defies reason. It's a comparison the BS will almost never win because the AP resides in fantasy land... a place where wrinkles, 15 extra pounds, kids, life, and reality do not exist; all the while the BS lives out here in the real world which now includes facing the fact that you are a cheater and betrayer. How many people do you know who would voluntarily pick facing that piece of ugly vs. sticking their head back in the sand and staying fantasy land with their AP? Reading around TAM says very damn few... if any.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Myselff said:


> "you have to be willing to risk it all ........to save it"
> 
> What is is going to risk and what is she going to save. I can not say I get the point of your thoughts but that's ok. But I am afraid she is is going to sacrifice herself for her marriage. I feed you lines carefully and still no answer to my question. Why her husband is gonna end the affair? You gave advice to her and still you haven't answered to my question. Why her husband will end the affair in which probably everything is fine to get back to the damaged- probably dead marriage.


I dont feel the need to repeat what Sigma has already said and THAT is why I didnt answer the same question and if the marriage is dead, as you say - best to know it now than 5-10 yrs and two more affairs down the road.

NOW if you dont mind I'd like to get on with the business of addressing Helen if she wants to address the issue. Its really doing no good for you and I or you and Sig or you and BA to work on this in her absence. So please, Im asking you to let her chime in if she's going to and if she isnt then I would imagine the rest of us will be gone bc no one is here to argue it out with you, we are here to help Helen if she wants help.

Thanks for understanding.
CM/CTU


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Well what is she risking? A ****ty marriage to a man who is not dedicated to her bc he has another woman in his mind.
What is she saving(possibly)? well I can tell you this, ....absolutley nothing if she DOES nothing. IF she does as the experts suggest as well as anyone around here who has endured it- SHE could have a good marriage when all is over. When there are but TWO in the marriage instead of THREE as Sigma discussed.

ANd that reply was for you Helen. SO you'll know what that means. Your H's head is so far up his ass he doesnt know which way is out. YOU have to help him find it or there is no hope at all bc he wont magically decide that you are all he ever needed again. Not with an AP to tell him he doesnt have to and a wife doing nothing to force the issue.


HELEN??????? KNOW that his cheating was NOT your fault. NOHTING you did caused it. HIS own weakness caused it. IF it were YOU he'd have come to you to work it out........

For you helen- its called 'gaslighing' or 'blameshifting' DONT FALL FOR IT! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWofQTAhUKA&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

There's a reason that infidelity forums exist separate from other marital forums. Even MC's specialize in infidelity. I think the typical marital rules change when infidelity has entered a marriage. The right path to take in the case of infidelity may be counter-intuitive.

There have been many good posts on this thread and another thread of yours Helen. However, I do believe that many of them have been misguided and as a result, you have been left defending who you are rather than focusing on the advice you need to heal your marriage and yourself. I wouldn’t blame you if you never commented again, but I sure hope you do. There have been people who have come out of moth balls to add to this discussion. People who have experienced both sides of EA’s. I have experienced the pain of EA’s and the pain of having to defend my emotions to others. EA’s are tricky like that because “blame” is clear in the case of a physical affair. Even former BS’s don’t understand the murkier lines in an EA situation.

When I got confused, I used to shift my situation out of the realm of infidelity and into something less emotional. I created analogies. Here’s one for you. Perhaps it will be meaningful, or maybe it’s corny.

Your marriage is a car and your H is driving. He hits you, full speed, while you are in a cross walk. There you are on the ground, bleeding, bruised, two legs broken. He gets out of the car, leans over your broken body and says “Honey, the oil needs changing” then walks away. There’s a crowd on one side of the street chanting…”Change the oil! Change the oil!”. On the other side are people who come to help you up and mend your wounds. They recognize it’s a little tough to change the oil with two broken legs. Point is, your H needs to lead the second crowd and has to do the heavy lifting. It’s impossible to change the oil with two broken legs, and after you have healed you and your H need to work at changing the oil together. Hope this makes sense.

Other people have suggested ways to get your H off the mark when it comes to this A. He needs consequences!! The 180, perhaps an in-house separation or more. Do not give in until he is clearly remorseful and ready to fix the problem he caused! Your H must put your needs and the needs of the marriage ahead of his own. He may want to hang onto the notion that he is a good person who did nothing wrong. He needs to let go of that in deference to the well-being of your marriage.

Helen, I know you are a woman of faith since you prayed for God to save your marriage. Therefore you also understand the importance of forgiveness. Forgiveness is as much for you as it is for your H. Right now, you cannot forgive your H, heck, he hasn’t even asked, has he? Your H needs to reflect on the boundaries in marriage, both emotional and in conduct. He needs to recognize the warning signs that he is getting too close to boundaries. He needs to understand why he chose to turn to OW and away from you. Once you see this in him, you will be able to forgive him and the marriage will begin to heal.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

DING DING DING!!!! WE have a winner!!!!! IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE HERE HELEN- read this post! 

Excellent BA!!!! Fan freakin tastic!!!!!


----------



## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I am going to forgive and move forward. I will probably always have a scar from this, but the gaping wound will heal. The affair has stopped. If it hadn't I would be leaving because i couldn't continue to live in a situation like that. Hubby comes straight home from work now. He even comes home for dinner on his 30 minute break. I tried to talk with him about the boundaries of an appropriate friendship and he stated he just won't have any more friends of the opposite sex because he says i'm too jealous. That suits me just fine. I never got an admission of wrong. The closest thing to remorse was right after the affair ended he said "I don't deserve you." That will have to be my apology. 

I do not think he is pining for the ow. He doesn't act like he is pining or distracted. He seems fully vested in the marriage now. As soon as she was out of the picture hubby once again became adoring and affectionate. As soon as she was gone hubby's glass went from being half empty back to half full.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

I think youre making a HUGE mistake Helen but I have said all I can for now. I hope we dont see you back in a year but I fear we will. If so, we'll be here for you.

Take care.

CM/CTU


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Myselff said:


> I am afraid that if she waits until the end of the affair their marriage will be dead - if their marriage is not already over. Probably it is over. Hmm.. So let's see what you say. She does nothing at all and she waits until her husband end his probably passionate affair in which there's probably no problem and go back to their destroyed relationship. Does it seems logical that thing to you? Why her husband to end the affair? I don't see even one reason. But I see you say to her to wait. Ok. Lets say that's she waits. What happens next? Her husband end the affair with the other women because...? Why he to end the relationship if he has feelings for the other women and feel nothing for the wife? .There is no answer to that. Thats a question with no answer. If she does what you say he will ask for a divorce maximum in a month. Why? Because inaction which is recommended by you would have made the other woman to have won his heart in a second. Dignity is excellent , but everything has a limit. Please dont have illusions . He is not going to end it until something change between them for the best. Everything else is just not true.


You are making a huge assumption and blaming the victim in this instance. Not all affairs arise as a result of a poor marriage. Some arise because of
1. a major character flaw in the WS
2. pure selfishness and self centredness, yes mankind are inherently self interested, this plays a big part
3. the need to have immediate gratification
4. opportunity, this usually applies to males, though can apply to women
5. The wiles of the POSOP and weak mindedness of the cheater

So the OP is already hurting and feeling very down about themselves, no need for you pontificating on:banghead:


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

helenbean said:


> I am going to forgive and move forward. I will probably always have a scar from this, but the gaping wound will heal. The affair has stopped. If it hadn't I would be leaving because i couldn't continue to live in a situation like that. Hubby comes straight home from work now. He even comes home for dinner on his 30 minute break. I tried to talk with him about the boundaries of an appropriate friendship and he stated he just won't have any more friends of the opposite sex because he says i'm too jealous. That suits me just fine. I never got an admission of wrong. The closest thing to remorse was right after the affair ended he said "I don't deserve you." That will have to be my apology.
> 
> I do not think he is pining for the ow. He doesn't act like he is pining or distracted. He seems fully vested in the marriage now. As soon as she was out of the picture hubby once again became adoring and affectionate. As soon as she was gone hubby's glass went from being half empty back to half full.


Sorry to say Helen I agree with many posters here, he has shown no remorse, he is shifting blame i.e. 'YOU are too jealous.' I sincerely hope that he does change his ways and that you do not end up in this situation again. A cheater needs to learn what they almost lost, for him that lesson has not been learnt. His cheating was NOT your fault, never will be your fault. Only you know your real situation, noone on a forum like this knows it all, they can only give advise looking from the outside in. 
You have made your decision but I hope you will continue to share on the site, if for nothing more than to vent your feelings.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Myselff said:


> People...People.. Please. Stop arguing with each other. It a is a sadly phenomenon. Also don't attack to people who has different opinion from yours. Helen has finally decided. You should be happy for her and encourage her. What's the meaning of what is happening in here? Some new but and also old members are really out of line. Be serious people. It is just an advise forum -with rules. Dont be rude with other people. So be happy for Helen whatever your beliefs are and don't be obsessed.


Who is arguing?  Posters are just having different opinions, that is all, but obviously if they do not agree they are being rude?  In fact you are rude calling people 'obsessed' or perhaps you didn't know that? 
Sorry mate you do not sound very familiar with the western way of expressing opinions. You are throwing around unacceptable statements worthy of a politically correct Asian blog. I suspect you are Asian. Did you just get a counselling qualification? I'm going out on a limb here. You also have to remember what works in one culture does not necessarily work in another. This applies to cheating especially. This forum generally does not adopt the softly softly rug sweeping approach that some cultures adopt. I have learnt that the hard way. This is the last I will say on the matter, Helen is the topic here not you, not me. :frown2:


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Myselff said:


> People...People.. Please. Stop arguing with each other. It a is a sadly phenomenon. Also don't attack to people who has different opinion from yours. Helen has finally decided. You should be happy for her and encourage her. What's the meaning of what is happening in here? Some new but and also old members are really out of line. Be serious people. It is just an advise forum -with rules. Dont be rude with other people. So be happy for Helen whatever your beliefs are and don't be obsessed.


Excuse me! I just read yesterday where YOU told someone "once a cheater, always a cheater" YOU are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.----------this is you in anohter thread:Old Yesterday, 04:59 PM
*Myselff
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 23
Re: I can't get "over it" . His cheating causes depression
"Really? Pregnant and cheated? No way. Thats awful. Did I read right?. You are thinking to forgive him and live with him as roommates until the kids are older???? Are you serious? I hope you are just joking now. What are you thinking? He is a professor at cheatings. I did not sow once to use the word divorce in your story. It is not something bad you know. And dont tell me that he loves you, he is sorry , he regrets, etc. Really? You will forgive him? Go to a counselor. It may helps. But you have to know one thing. Once a cheater always a cheater."
*

thats all to you from me- ever. We are here to help Helen. She has, for now made a decision. I am truly hopeful that works out for her. And again, if it doesnt we'll be here to help her through. I needed it for more than an year here and I got it in spades. I gave alot too so if Helen needs help we are the right group for that.

Best of luck Helen.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Helen,
I have to say I have quite a few thoughts about your last post... and the direction your thread has taken over all... I'll try to avoid this becoming a book. 

Everyone here I believe intends to help you. I know those of us telling you to fight seem like we're encouraging you to dive off head first into a conflict that doesn't look or feel necessary. I assure you we're not. No one here wants to see anyone endure any more pain than they already have... we're just circumventing what has been proven time and again not to work and going to what we know will work. Work is something of a relative term though, it depends on the ultimate objective. If the objective is peace today then no, the advice to wage war is not what you want. If the objective is to try to return to a truly happy and honest marriage with only the two of you in it... then unfortunately a fight is well proven to be the only thing that truly works in the end. 

Many people have been where you are - my wife among them - wanting to believe in the good in their spouse. Wanting to believe that the person they love and married is the one in front of them and treat them accordingly. Sadly - in 9 out of 10 cases it just ain't so. Affairs are not logical. I could go on for pages, and have in past threads here, about what it's like to be involved in an emotional affair. It's difficult to explain. The absolute best analogy is to think of someone involved in (or recently involved in) an affair as a drug addict. Is it possible you H is the exception to the rule? That your H is the one guy in 10 or even 100 who truly walks away straight back into a loving state of mind? Sure... it's possible. It's just very unlikely. I know it's hard to think of your H in the light of an addict, and I can't tell you how much I hope I'm wrong, but experience (including my own) show that odds are he's still in that affair - even if it's only inside his own head. But even in that case... even if it's only inside his head there are still three of you in your marriage. 

I don't know your H but I'm willing to accept he's a good man. Everyone makes bad decisions and choices - I had an EA myself so I certainly won't convict him solely on that. I consider myself a good man despite what I did to a wonderful and exceedingly trusting woman. I even wanted out of my EA but couldn't bring myself to walk away... in the end I needed my wife to hit me with a 2x4 - several times - to pull my head out of my a$$ and it took years. Had she hit me much harder and more often it would have happened much sooner and just reduce how long the pain went on. 

I encourage you to cast a cynical and suspicious eye on your H and his behavior. Move him outside of that circle where you accept everything he says. Question everything, if only to yourself, for a while and see if it all adds up in your head. My personal opinion is that he still has serious issues with this OW - it maybe only inside his head but I don't think he's free of her. If you'd like me to explain why I think that I'll be happy to but for the moment I'm going to leave it at what I've already said. If you ask yourself a couple of hard questions about the situation and it doesn't add up... come back. If you go forward on the path you say you've chosen and it doesn't pan out as you hope - come back. This is a great group of people and collectively they've just about seen it all.

Sig


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Many people have been where you are - my wife among them - wanting to believe in the good in their spouse. Wanting to believe that the person they love and married is the one in front of them and treat them accordingly. Sadly - in 9 out of 10 cases it just ain't so. Affairs are not logical. I could go on for pages, and have in past threads here, about what it's like to be involved in an emotional affair. It's difficult to explain. *The absolute best analogy is to think of someone involved in (or recently involved in) an affair as a drug addict. * Is it possible you H is the exception to the rule? That your H is the one guy in 10 or even 100 who truly walks away straight back into a loving state of mind? Sure... it's possible. It's just very unlikely. *I know it's hard to think of your H in the light of an addict, and I can't tell you how much I hope I'm wrong, but experience (including my own) show that odds are he's still in that affair - even if it's only inside his own head. But even in that case... even if it's only inside his head there are still three of you in your marriage. *
> 
> I don't know your H but I'm willing to accept he's a good man. Everyone makes bad decisions and choices - I had an EA myself so I certainly won't convict him solely on that. I consider myself a good man despite what I did to a wonderful and exceedingly trusting woman. I even wanted out of my EA but couldn't bring myself to walk away... in the end I needed my wife to hit me with a 2x4 - several times - to pull my head out of my a$$ and it took years. Had she hit me much harder and more often it would have happened much sooner and just reduce how long the pain went on.
> 
> ...



I can vouch for this. Being in an EA IS an addiction to the dopamine and other neural chemicals in your brain. This is why Sigma is correct. In order to break the addiction and survive the withdrawal you need aggressive action to counter the pull he enevitably feels. The pull and desire are there even if he doesn't speak about it. It took me over two years to not feel any attraction to the OW from my EA. It was so much harder than dieting and loosing weight to pull away and reduce the contact I had with her. 

You also need something to replace the addiction he feels. This is where it's important for you to spin up your relationship. He needs to become addicted to you again. This is really what pulled me out.  Help him to change focus towards you.

For more info on the addiction part of an EA see the link on fog in my sig.


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

One last comment to you Helen- IF you do as Sig suggests and keep an eye open and you do happen to get your hackles up and find that things dont add up- DO NOT CONFRONT YOUR H FIRST! COME HERE and let us guide you so it wont be hidden and it wont go underground. You get but ONE chance to do it right in this case.

IF you come across something still existing, more contact -ANYTHING. DOnt confront your H right away. There are appropriate steps to take to get this over and done iwht and bust an Affair. Let us help you in that process.

Again, best of luck

CM/CTU


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

checkmate1 said:


> One last comment to you Helen- IF you do as Sig suggests and keep an eye open and you do happen to get your hackles up and find that things dont add up- DO NOT CONFRONT YOUR H FIRST! COME HERE and let us guide you so it wont be hidden and it wont go underground. You get but ONE chance to do it right in this case.
> 
> IF you come across something still existing, more contact -ANYTHING. DOnt confront your H right away. There are appropriate steps to take to get this over and done iwht and bust an Affair. Let us help you in that process.
> 
> ...


Excellent point. If things start to not add up for you please don't run and ask him about it - as much as you'll want to. If you do - and things are amiss - you'll just be showing him where to tighten up so as not to get into trouble. 

Best to come here and bounce it off of people. At a minimum hide and watch for a while. If he's up to no good he'll reveal himself if you don't alert him.


----------



## Queene (Aug 26, 2015)

Hello everyone...I am a newbie to this site and I'm having difficulty figuring out how to start a new thread. I have a dilemma of my own that I would like to share in order to receive some advice from this community. Hopefully someone can assist me with directions to start a new post. In the meantime, Pls allow me to share a little bit of my story here. 
My fiancé and I have been together for almost 11 years. I first discovered that he was unfaithful to me in the early part of the relationship beforw we were engaged and I decided to give him another chance and work things out. We got engaged about 5 years into the relationship and I discovered that he had an affair with his coworker. Again, I made the decision to stay in the relationship and work on our issues. A couple years after that I discovered that he was involved with anotherwoman . He claimed that it was not a physical affair betweem them. Now just recently, a couple of weeks ago I found a secret phone in his car and saw some love messages in the phone. He denied ownership of the phone and claimed it was his friends' phone. Subsequently, I decided to investigate further and found out that he was still engaging In an affair with the same coworker for 7 years. I spoke to the other woman over the phone in his presence and they both promised to end the affair. She is also a married woman. My fiancé wants us to reconcile and work on the relationship. He insists the affair was mainly for sex since our sex life has changed. I'm devastated over this and need some advice for my situation. I'm lost and need some direction. Pls don't be too hard on me ppl..Thank you. Btw, I haven't Exposed the affair to the ow husband for fear of the outcome.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Hi Queene, Sorry you're here and you'll get lots of help... I'll refrain from commenting until you get your own thread started as you'll get much much better results that way. 

When you are in the main Coping with Infidelity forum where all the threads are listed in the upper left corner right below the top banner ad you should see a black button that says "Post New Thread." From there give it a subject, that's how it will be listed in the main forum and then fire away with your story/situation. 

Sig


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Myselff said:


> Why do even bother reposting my answer to other people? Anyway for me the issue is that you should you use your own words to send the messages you want. But dont use my replies checkmate1 to other people to send your messages to Helen . As a grown up person you can use your own words and have your own opinion I guess. Am I wrong? Can you not? I don't remember myself to have done something like that with your answers to other people. Did I? Am I wrong? Why did you use my answer to ANOTHER PERSON? Do whatever you like. BUT NOT DO SO WITH MY REPLIES EVEN TO ANOTHER PERSON. AM I UNDERSTOOD checkmate1?. Play your games dear checkmate1 with other people in the forum, not with me.
> 
> With disrespect
> Myself.



^^^^^^^^
Rewritten in English for those of you who didn't understand the first time around. 

Now I will ignore bc he clearly doesn't get the irony of what his msg that I copied and pasted is showing- that while in one thread demanding a poster get D bc "once a cheater always a cheater" he is here and upset bc we are telling Helen to be careful believing everything her WS says..... IRONY I tell you.

Irony - noun: a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., especially as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion


----------



## checkmate1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Myselff said:


> I didnt expected nothing better for you checkmate. I close my post writing with respect. Something that is changed to your post checkmate 1. I don't care. I respect my interlocutors those I like but and those I dont .Something that clearly you dont. But thats ok. I will survive. hahaha..
> And that is called Irony.
> Irony - noun: a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., especially as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
> 
> Thank you chakmate1 for what you taught me . You are a good teacher. I really enjoy talking to you!!!.



IN all seriousness Myselff- You really should consider that you don't have a good enough command of the English language and you are making a total fool of yourself. And I am not being rude, Im being honest. Look thru your posts and see how many 'likes' you've gotten or how many ppl here are responding to you. Try a place in your native language as Aine suggested earlier, you truly don't seem to know whats appropriate or how to put things so they are interpretable. 

Best of luck..

CM

And no need to respond, as I will not see it bc you will be on my ignore list going forward.


----------



## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Helen

Your first post on this topic was on 8/17, 9 days ago. I hope that you have gained some insight since you first posted. I think it would be hard to have your concerns assuaged in that amount of time. 

You asked about recovery. The rule of thumb is that it takes 2-5 years to recover from an affair. Perhaps you read that in Not Just Friends. I can’t remember if it’s there or not. The 2-5 years starts after the WS and BS are on the same page. Each new revelation or hurt starts the clock over. I see it as a three-pronged process, the reconciliation of the marriage and the recovery of both the wayward and the betrayed spouse.

The WS – WS’s do need to recover from the A. Obviously it starts with admission of the A and turning away from the feelings for the AP. Once a WS understands the why’s they need to restore their self esteem. I know a lot of them take a real hit because they are so disappointed in themselves. I can’t speak in detail about this process but I can tell you that my H is happier than he has ever been. He has turned away from passive aggressive tendencies and has way better coping skills than he did before the A’s. He feels better about himself than he did before the A’s. Helen, your H is not doing any of this.

The Marriage – My marriage recovered almost immediately. We recommitted to the marriage the night I confronted him. There was immediate NC. My H walked around shell-shocked for about two weeks then scheduled MC. Helen, I hit him soooooooo hard the night I confronted him (verbally). We eased into talking about the A’s at home. For a while, the only safe place was at the MC. Eventually we would leave MC and continue our discussions at home with a bottle of wine on the deck (that sounds like we were talking to the wine, but you get my drift). The fact that you two are not doing that concerns me. Things have returned to “normal” but the A is being swept under the rug. I think there are seeds of real resentment deep in both of you and it wouldn’t take much to water them. For you, obviously it’s the pain he has inflicted on you. For him, it’s his misguided notion that you are jealous and controlling. 

You – You are going to walk this path of recovery alone. I’m not sure it can be done but I wish you well as you try. In a reconciled marriage, you have the support of the WS. So, you need to surround yourself with support. Get to IC. Do you have a trusted friend or family to share with? Read as much as you can on recovery. Post here. Get “How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair”. It’s for WS’s, but perhaps you can pick up something in there to help you. Focus on the good things about you. Sounds like you have lots of friends that respect you. Be good to yourself. Let your H know that you are putting yourself first. For me, my d-days were in Jan/Feb, 2012. I recovered very slowly but took a major step last fall and I feel pretty much at peace with the situation. I knew I was in good shape when I put away the voodoo dolls of the OW’s. Someday I may throw them out…or burn them……hummmmmm.

Overall, My H and I did about 5 months of weekly MC. He was travelling, so some weeks were 2x per week, plus I did about 4 months of IC (about the time MC ended) and another few IC visits for me a couple of years later.

Other posters have expressed concern about the possibility about the A continuing or PA’s. I agree and don’t need to elaborate. Reread those posts. BUT I do want to chime in and stress that if you do see something inappropriate in his actions, hang tight and come here first. We can help you with a clear and decisive confrontation. They do work.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Myselff said:


> That sounds reasonable but I still have some gaps to my consideration. Why her husband will end the affair with the other woman if the situation between is them is like Kramer VS Kramer ? I guess it has to be a reason - a good one- to do that. Still no answer from you to that question. My guess?Unfortunately she is going to lose her husband. I hope I get wrong.


A marriage cannot be worked on until the affair is ended. Why? Because during an affair, his attention is on the other woman, not his marriage. During an affair, he's in an affair fog.. meaning that he cannot be present in his marriage.

If he will not end his affair, the marriage is over. Until the affair is ended, she has already lost her husband. He left her emotionally when he stated the affair.

You say unfortunately she is going to lose her husband? I would say it differently. Unfortunately he's going to lose his wife. Helen is not obligated to stay in a marriage with a man who is cheating. He need to be the one to realize what he's losing.

Only about 3% of affairs last once the BS leaves the WS. Why? Because the WS is depending no the emotional needs that the BS has been meeting.


So... in the end HE will lose both his wife and his affair partner. Seems like just rewards for him.


----------



## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

meson said:


> I can vouch for this. Being in an EA IS an addiction to the dopamine and other neural chemicals in your brain. This is why Sigma is correct. In order to break the addiction and survive the withdrawal you need aggressive action to counter the pull he enevitably feels. The pull and desire are there even if he doesn't speak about it. It took me over two years to not feel any attraction to the OW from my EA. It was so much harder than dieting and loosing weight to pull away and reduce the contact I had with her.
> 
> You also need something to replace the addiction he feels. This is where it's important for you to spin up your relationship. He needs to become addicted to you again. This is really what pulled me out. Help him to change focus towards you.
> 
> For more info on the addiction part of an EA see the link on fog in my sig.


....this is so so true. And any contact between the two can set things back to the very beginning. EAs simply do not go away without NO CONTACT. But they can go away with effort and time.


----------

