# Spouse and Christmas Just Don't Mix



## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm feeling so bad right now that I had to start this thread. My husband has always let me down on any special occasion…birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, etc.. His gifts are always what he THINKS I should have or he WANTS me to have. They're never what I want or that will make me happy. He has always given me something at the very last minute and it's usually obvious that it's a last minute gift. Now I know what you're saying, "it's the thought that counts", but I'm here to tell you that "if the gift is thoughtless then it doesn't count." 

He has a son from a previous relationship. His son called and put in his requests for Christmas. Instead of purchasing the gifts and sending them through the mail, my husband decided to purchase them at a store and have the child's mother pick them up from the same store in her location. Pretty smart move. Anyhow, she ended up calling my husband to inform him that the store didn't have a couple of the items he had purchased. Therefore he dragged me back to the store with him so that he could select some different gifts. Now, I know you're wondering why did I feel like I was being "dragged" to the store instead of willingly wanting to go, but the dynamics of that situation isn't great. They never involve me with this child. I hardly even know when my husband talks to the child. He and the child's mother makes all the decisions without my involvement. I didn't even know in the first place that he had purchased the gifts and had the mother pick them up. It was all NEW to me, so I just couldn't figure out why he and the mother didn't just continue their secretive process and reselect gifts without me. It's a really discomforting situation and one of the biggest problems in our marriage. 

Anyhow, we went to the store and I wanted to do a little shopping of my own while we were there, but he insisted that I help pick out his son's gifts. In the meantime while searching for gifts he was simultaneously on the phone with the mother trying help her find the gifts he was considering. Instead of involving me in this process that he insisted I be apart of, I was just standing there looking stupid in the aisle while they select the gifts. It was so frustrating. 

Longer story short, he picked the gifts and we were done with that. After getting home, he received a phone call from the child's mother stating that she wasn't able to get one of the gifts because she was $2 short. Yes, that's right $2 short…not $20, not $200, but $2. This woman is atrocious. She doesn't have a job (has never worked a day in her life), she has 3 kids (one by my husband and the other 2 by God only knows), she lives in a two bedroom trailer with 7 other people…it's all a big mess. So this retard couldn't get the gift because she didn't have $2. WTF!!! My husband told her that he would go back to the store and put down $2 (OMG, I'm ashamed to even write that part. LOL) so that she could get the gift. Apparently the gift that she wasn't able to get was one in which the child REALLY REALLY wanted.

Now let's get into why my feelings are hurt. He ended up telling me that my gift won't arrive before Christmas. (Go Figure) He said that he ordered it online and because he "put in the wrong zipcode" the gift was returned to the manufacturer and reshipped to our address. LOL. Ok, if that's his story then fine. Now I purchased my husband's Christmas gift back in JULY. Yes JULY. He loves the whole western theme…cowboys, bull riding, country music, horseback riding, etc. So I found this perfect package at a dude ranch which literally includes all of those items. It was such a perfect package that I had to take advantage of it. Now I can care less about western anything, but it's not about me (I wish he shared the same logic). Because the dude ranch isn't in our location, I also had to purchase flights for us to get there. Needless to say that his gift pretty much cost me $1000. On the other hand, he waits until a week before Christmas to get me something that I'm not even sure he got. WHATEVER.

Here's where I really get crushed. I've been telling him for MONTHS that I want either Chanel Chance perfume or a new sewing machine. I've stressed this over and over again. Yesterday, he came into the room and started showing me pictures of lingerie, asking me if I liked it. I said sure, it's ok. Then he started measuring me. WTH is he doing, I thought. I put 2 and 2 together and asked him if that's what he had purchased me for Christmas. He said, "well it's one of them." So he got me lingerie when I specifically said I wanted Chance by Chanel or a sewing machine. Therefore I politely said to him, "you know, I probably wouldn't mind the lingerie so much if I hadn't just witnessed the whole charade you just went through with your son's mother, ensuring that she picked up every single thing that your son had requested. I remember you saying on several occasions that you don't believe in purchasing requested gifts because they aren't gifts at all. However, you bought me something that would benefit you instead of what I asked for, which was perfume or a sewing machine. Now I'm suppose to be grateful because at least you thought of me, right?" He looked dumbfounded for a few moments and then said, "…this gift is for you too because you're gonna wear it and it'll make you feel better about yourself." "Wow" I said, "…I didn't know I felt bad about myself to begin with." 

I truly realize my husband is selfish and a hyprocrite. We're having sooo many problems and I've been strongly considering a divorce. Not for this reason, but for MANY others. This is just another thing that helps me conclude that my decision is necessary. If I stay in this crap, I'll never feel like my wants and needs are met or even cared to be met. I'll always feel left out, sad, and lonely (especially around the holiday season).

What are your thoughts????


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

If you're considering divorce that might be for the best. 

Here is what I see, as far as with your husband, his child and the childs mother issue. YOU could have told your husband up front you were not going, you did not want to be involved in all the drama of the gifts etc, and tell him that is really between him and the childs mother and then simply not went. If he got ticked off, so be it. 


As far as his Christmas gifts to you, if he is thoughtless on the gift giving and pretty much always has been, why would you continue to go out of your way to buy expensive things for him you know he likes? How is it fair? Stop doing what you have always done. 

Also I see in your post you have resorted to name calling, so therefore if its gotten to that point, then yes proceed with the divorce.


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## halfway (Dec 22, 2011)

R.J. said:


> I'm feeling so bad right now that I had to start this thread. My husband has always let me down on any special occasion…birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, etc.. His gifts are always what he THINKS I should have or he WANTS me to have. They're never what I want or that will make me happy. He has always given me something at the very last minute and it's usually obvious that it's a last minute gift. Now I know what you're saying, "it's the thought that counts", but I'm here to tell you that "if the gift is thoughtless then it doesn't count."
> 
> He has a son from a previous relationship. His son called and put in his requests for Christmas. Instead of purchasing the gifts and sending them through the mail, my husband decided to purchase them at a store and have the child's mother pick them up from the same store in her location. Pretty smart move. Anyhow, she ended up calling my husband to inform him that the store didn't have a couple of the items he had purchased. Therefore he dragged me back to the store with him so that he could select some different gifts. Now, I know you're wondering why did I feel like I was being "dragged" to the store instead of willingly wanting to go, but the dynamics of that situation isn't great. They never involve me with this child. I hardly even know when my husband talks to the child. He and the child's mother makes all the decisions without my involvement. I didn't even know in the first place that he had purchased the gifts and had the mother pick them up. It was all NEW to me, so I just couldn't figure out why he and the mother didn't just continue their secretive process and reselect gifts without me. It's a really discomforting situation and one of the biggest problems in our marriage.
> 
> ...



R.J. I am new to the forum and am looking for advice myself on a situation but I will throw in some thoughts. I am a man and I love my wife but I am not always the best when it comes to shopping and gifts.

We have made a pack that I give her the money and she does the shopping. This took out a lot of headaches because I just don't have the patience to be in a mall more than 20 minutes especially at this time of the year, and when I am I go in turbo shopping mode at that point.

I know some couples who don't even buy each other a gift on Christmas and instead buy one big gift that they both want. A big TV etc...

My point is I think your thread title says it all "Spouse and Christmas just Don't Mix"... Every couple is different. Like I said I love my wife but we just find it better to do it that way, and then I will usually buy her 1 gift on the side. 

As for the other problems you guys are having I am not sure about, just on Christmas remember things can get crazy nm who you are married to


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## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

He is just being a man....thoughtless.

He might not know how much resentment you have. I think you need to be more direct when you are talking to him. You can't beat around the bush when you talk to a guy like that. If you don't like something just tell him directly. Don't use other people as an example, like his kid or the kid's mother. Just tell him, you don't like this or you don't like that and you don't want this or that. And not in paragraphs. In couples sentences.


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## halfway (Dec 22, 2011)

scione said:


> He is just being a man....thoughtless.
> 
> He might not know how much resentment you have. I think you need to be more direct when you are talking to him. You can't beat around the bush when you talk to a guy like that. If you don't like something just tell him directly. Don't use other people as an example, like his kid or the kid's mother. Just tell him, you don't like this or you don't like that and you don't want this or that. And not in paragraphs. In couples sentences.


I agree with this


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

This goes way beyond gift giving. Obviously there are other issues going on, you need to weigh your options and decide on what you feel you need to do.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

RJ, I am a horrible, horrible gift giver. I desperately want to please people when I give them a gift that the thought of determining what they may want, where I'm going to get it, when I will get it, how to make it perfect all becomes so overwhelming. My stbxw despised me and assumed I always forgot about special occasions because I so often never had a gift wrapped for her. The thing is I love and appreciate when someone buys me a gift so I think I can understand how others feel, I just don't know why I suck so bad at making it happen. I think about it for months and months, but between indecision, laziness, being averse to crowds and stores, feeling like everything is a ripoff (ie being cheap) I fail almost every time to give a gift on time. If I start trying really hard I manage to get one or two good gifts but then I feel like I've let down all the other people I wanted to get gifts for and sucked at.

It doesn't mean I love my family or my partner any less. And I don't think I'm selfish in the least, just really crappy at giving gifts.

Why don't you ask him to just get you a gift card or cash for you to go buy exactly what you want?


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

Please understand that our issues go far beyond Christmas gifts. 

@Lon, I understand in general that you recognize you're poor at giving gifts. However, you also mentioned that a part of it is that you're lazy and cheap about it as well. That's EXACTLY how my husband is. I suppose he's also indecisive and he definitely hate crowds, but I've told him what I wanted so that he wouldn't have to decide on what to get and I even suggested he ordered it online to avoid crowds. Now this leaves me only with lazy and cheap. There's no excuse.

It's not that I didn't like the lingerie, but I'm irritated that he bought something that would benefit him instead of what I really wanted. Again, I wouldn't have cared so much if he hadn't been jumping through loops of fire trying to get his son EVERYTHING that he wanted, but then turned around and got me what he wanted me to have. It's not about the son at all. It's about how important my feelings, wants, and needs are to him versus others. This whole Christmas gift thing is just a small example of how irrelevant my wants are to him. I've told him SEVERAL times what I wanted for Christmas, but because he wanted me to have something that would benefit him that's what I got. It's like this in every aspect of our marriage. He does what he wants to do and I believe it's out of selfishness.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

So what is your plan? It does go beyond the gifts, that apparent. I think the gift issue is just the tip of the iceberg. What are the other issues you all have?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

RJ, if he is like me, it doesn't matter that you told him precisely what you want, because to him he thinks it is important to come up with something "thoughtful". The more things you tell him you want the more things he may be crossing off his list of possible gifts for you. If he is like me I sincerely doubt that his lingerie buying is solely for his benefit (he probably had to muster a LOT of courage to go into a store - unless he ordered it online).

You are building SO MUCH RESENTMENT over this, you need to accept him for who he is and that includes his sh!tty gift giving. Take the gift giving issue off the table and re-analyze your opinion of him. I may be lazy in some ways (such as giving gifts) but there are other things I am passionate about - the more he (and you his W) dwell on his weaknesses the more worn down he will get.

My advice is forget gifts from him, I know it is your love language, and a need even, however until you can isolate that one part of his challenges from the rest of him he will not be able to successfully work on it. You need to accept that he will never get the "perfect" gift (unlike your ability to get him the perfect gift) and if you can get over this deficiency in him his other strengths and shows of love may start to shine brighter.

For me, knowing that I was crappy at giving my W gifts, I knew there was resentment and it didn't motivate me to improve it just depressed me and made me all the more ineffective at meeting her needs. It is a downward spiral that YOU have a lot of influence to change, not by changing him into a better gifter, nor by divorcing, but by letting go of the resentment.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

R.J. said:


> This whole Christmas gift thing is just a small example of how irrelevant my wants are to him. I've told him SEVERAL times what I wanted for Christmas, but because he wanted me to have something that would benefit him that's what I got. It's like this in every aspect of our marriage. He does what he wants to do and I believe it's out of selfishness.


Sounds like we married the same guy. I lived with this nonsense for eight years, and that was all I could stomach. I realized if I stayed, I was passively accepting his self-serving behavior.

I left. It didn't change him, but it sure made my life less stressful. Sometimes it boils down to stay and be dragged, or leave and be free.


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## s.k (Feb 27, 2010)

You raelly need to talk about your issues with your husband and not politely i mean seriously talk and let it all out. Sounds to me like you are at the end of your tether and your about to explode. He needs to decide if he wants you to be apart of his childs life or not if not then he shouldnt get you involved in anythuing gift giving and visits should be solely left to him and he shouldnt ask for your opinion if it just makes you feel like a fool just standing there him not taking any notice of your imput.


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

This stuff has been going on for year between he and I. We've tried 3 different counselors, 2 pastors, family and friends to help us get to the root of problems in order to heal. Nothing has worked. 

Again, this gift giving thing is a fraction of our problems, but it's the most recent thing that has yet again let me down.

@Lon, he ordered the lingerie online so there's no excuse. He could've ordered lingerie and my perfume or sewing machine. But once again, he had to do what he wanted to do. 

Yes there's alot of resentment. Tons and Tons. And the only reason I politely told him how I felt this time is because I've yelled, written, emailed, cried, pleaded and every other alternative to express myself. NOTHING WORKS!

Excepting his inconsiderate ways is just cheating myself. Yes, there are some good qualities about him, but unfortunately they don't out weigh the poor. I've sacrificed myself, happiness, wants, and needs for the sake of this marriage and it has gotten me no where but unhappy, lacking, and needy. It's too much.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

You keep saying the gift giving isn't the main issue but yet you keep on focusing on it..I have asked you what are the other issues in your life with him?


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

Trey69, this thread is specifically about "SPOUSE AND CHRISTMAS DON'T MIX." I keep saying that I don't consider my marriage failed solely because of this gift thing, but due to other more serious factors. The gift giving topic is the latest thing that HAS LET ME DOWN!!! 

You want to know our other problems, here we go:

1.) I make all the money, pay all of the bills, do everything financially to support this marriage and have been completely taken for granted

2.)I've taken us on several trips because I LOVE TO TRAVEL and no matter where we go he ruins it by starting a huge fight (it's horrible)

3.)He never does anything that I like or even appreciate. Again, birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas…I never have nothing to look forward to and this really hurts

4.)He's never sweet, generous, or affectionate towards me (I mean we literally DO NOT hug, kiss, cuddle, or NOTHING). Apparently he's just not that type of guy. When we walk into the house after not seeing one another all day, we may say "hello" sometimes, but for the most part we walk right past each other. In the beginning I tried to hug and kiss him, but I got tired of being the only one to show affection so I quit. Now I don't even think about it anymore. 

5.)The only thing he wants to do once he gets home from work is sit on his tail and watch football or any other sport that comes on ESPN

6.) He never ever takes me out or try to show me a good time

7.) He hardly helps around the house. I get off of work around 5:30pm and have to come home and clean and cook while he gets to rest and watch TV (keep in mind he gets home hours before me)

8.) He's quick to bite my head off about something that he doesn't like, but his child's mother can call and yell at him (as if he's her husband) because he doesn't answer his phone and he just takes it

9.) He never says sorry for anything that he does to hurt me, but instead finds a way to blame me for the situation

10.) As I've mentioned, I've arranged for us to go to 3 counselors, 2 pastors, family, and friends to help us with our problems, but all he does is blame me in the sessions. I try to highlight my flaws in the marriage and he only agrees instead of acknowledging what he has done wrong to hurt our marriage

I can go on and on. The list is long. I'm only 29, but I feel 92. I've changed who I am so much because of him. I've totally lost myself and I realize the only way to find ME is if I let him go. I realize that he's oblivious to my feelings, but that's hard for me to accept considering I've expressed myself directly and indirectly for so long. The reason I think he's oblivious is because for almost 1.5 months he has been sleeping in one room and I the other. Yesterday he was in such a jolly spirit because he bought gifts, which is weird because he's the cheapest person walking the face of the earth so I was shocked he was happy that he spent money. Anyhow, he had a nerve to ask me if he could hang out in my room, as if everything is peaches and crème. I told him, "hell no." Why would he think that's ok? Last month I told him that I'm leaving him once the lease is up on our place (which is in April). I don't think he believes me, which is fine with me. That doesn't change my plan. I've COMPLETELY separated myself from him. I have no desire to be with him or stay in this crap.

So there, Trey69. Those are the problems. It's not just about the gift, but the gift just adds fuel to the fire.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Wow, I'm sorry you're going through all of this. 

I will point out,that you say you feel he is oblivious and he very well may be, BUT he may also know exactly what he is doing, and just doesn't care, which is way more and abusive than if he just simply didn't know what he was doing. 

I do think you might be better off without all that mess.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

R.J. said:


> Yes there's alot of resentment. Tons and Tons. And the only reason I politely told him how I felt this time is because I've yelled, written, emailed, cried, pleaded and every other alternative to express myself. NOTHING WORKS!


It doesn't work because you are trying to change who he is. You say his actions are out of pure selfishness, but because of my personality and experiences I read your description and see him as a man that is somewhat aloof, in his own mind, wants approval but is holding himself back, feels ashamed of his failures, wants to impress but is on track for setting himself up for a series of disappointments. However I don't see that there is no love, atleast without you mentioning some of the other self-serving behaviors you say he has.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

trey69 said:


> Wow, I'm sorry you're going through all of this.
> 
> I will point out,that *you say you feel he is oblivious and he very well may be, BUT he may also know exactly what he is doing, and just doesn't care*, which is way more and abusive than if he just simply didn't know what he was doing.
> 
> I do think you might be better off without all that mess.


Or, if he is the classic "nice guy" he is aware but is actually letting you down (and therefore himself because he is attached to you) deliberately as a way to punish himself for his built-in shame.


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

I hear what you're saying Lon, and you may be right. However, in my opinion it boils down to we simply don't blend well together. He doesn't understand me and I don't understand him. We've tried to figure each other out, but have obviously failed. I never tried to change him. I just hoped that he'd learn to sacrifice himself a bit for the sake of my happiness as I have done so for his. However, he has convinced himself that he has a right to be himself 100% in this marriage and I should accept him as he is. Well guess what Lon, that's not how marriage or life works. TO SOME DEGREE, you have to bend yourself a bit to make things work. Knowone should have to completely change their identity for the sake of one's happiness, but one must be able to compromise and sacrifice themselves a bit in order for a marriage to work. You can't just do what or live how you want and expect the other partner to just accept it because "you're being you." Marriage doesn't work that way.

Also, you say that you view my husband, "as a man that is somewhat aloof, in his own mind, wants approval but is holding himself back, feels ashamed of his failures, wants to impress but is on track for setting himself up for a series of disappointments." However, I really don't think it is fair to me or this marriage for him to simply shut down all effort because he may feel disappointed. With all due respect Lon, but you're making him sound even more selfish. It's all about him and his worries. It has always been this way. He never worry about things that may harm the marriage, but instead himself.

You have to take risks for marriage to work. You have to give it everything that you have, even if you're afraid. You have to try. You don't just sit there in shame and hope that the problems go away. Oh, but they will go away if you keep that behavior up, but it won't be because everything got better but instead because the marriage no longer exists!!! 

I've been afraid and ashamed for years, but that didn't stop me from getting us counseling, taking us on trips, living solely in his world just to try to make it work. I did more than bend myself for us. I completely changed who I was for us. All I asked is that he bend a bit for the sake of this marriage, but that's impossible because that'll mean I'm "…trying to change him" and God forbid he does that for the sake of the marriage.

I think you relate too much to him Lon and as a result, perhaps you too should consider your wife's (or partner's) point of view. Just because you're being yourself, ashamed, aloof, and or afraid doesn't mean that you're partner has to just accept that. It doesn't make her feel any better about the situation. It hurts and it's not fair.

My husband can continue to be himself, but unfortunately he'll be himself without me. I realize that I don't have to feel alone and hurt just for the sake of marriage any longer. As horrible as it is to divorce, I can no longer compromise myself for a man who refuses to try to make me happy because he's worried about setting himself up for "…a series of disappointments." Especially when the main disappointment is that his lack of effort has deteoriated the quality of the marriage.
@Trey69, you are right. He may totally realize what he's doing, but simply doesn't care. That's DEFINITELY a possibility. However, it doesn't matter at this point. I've already concluded what needs to be done if I want peace and happiness. I have until April to get myself together, pack up, and hit the road to happiness. Until then I'll continue to believe, "Spouse and Christmas Just Don't Mix." Lol.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

RJ, you are in a tough situation for sure. I am not blaming you at all for feeling the way you feel, and I'm not trying to excuse his behavior. After reading all the other issues, it sounds like you really have checked out of the relationship already, which to me explains why commenters on this thread sensed all kinds of serious issues besides the gift thing. I think I do relate to your H, and for me my stubborness cost me my marriage. I am not entirely to blame for the state of my marriage though, I wasn't meeting my W's needs, nor she mine, it just spiraled to the point where she gave up in her mind (as it sounds like you are at in your mind) and I just was paralyzed with my own self-pity.

It was not until my W said she was done, wanted to D, and I knew it, that I awoke to how serious this was, I never had a chance at that point though because I knew I had to change for myself (whether we could salvage the marriage or not) and knew she wasn't going to wait any longer. Not only that but since she came to the point of checking out so much sooner without telling me, that it caused so much pain, and confusion and of course when I found out there was infidelity it just made it all the messier.

My only advice is to you is show him how serious this is to you, that if he doesn't change (ie he chooses to) that the marriage is over and you will walk out of it. He needs to be shocked and given a chance (otherwise it will just coast along as is), if you are checked out he needs to hear it directly, you are putting divorce on the table. No matter how it goes down, you are the only one whe ever has been or ever will be responsible for your own happiness. Don't stray from the marriage or seek happiness in others, especially if you haven't ended the marriage first.


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## halfway (Dec 22, 2011)

R.J. said:


> I hear what you're saying Lon, and you may be right. However, in my opinion it boils down to we simply don't blend well together. He doesn't understand me and I don't understand him. We've tried to figure each other out, but have obviously failed. I never tried to change him. I just hoped that he'd learn to sacrifice himself a bit for the sake of my happiness as I have done so for his. However, he has convinced himself that he has a right to be himself 100% in this marriage and I should accept him as he is. Well guess what Lon, that's not how marriage or life works. TO SOME DEGREE, you have to bend yourself a bit to make things work. Knowone should have to completely change their identity for the sake of one's happiness, but one must be able to compromise and sacrifice themselves a bit in order for a marriage to work. You can't just do what or live how you want and expect the other partner to just accept it because "you're being you." Marriage doesn't work that way.
> 
> Also, you say that you view my husband, "as a man that is somewhat aloof, in his own mind, wants approval but is holding himself back, feels ashamed of his failures, wants to impress but is on track for setting himself up for a series of disappointments." However, I really don't think it is fair to me or this marriage for him to simply shut down all effort because he may feel disappointed. With all due respect Lon, but you're making him sound even more selfish. It's all about him and his worries. It has always been this way. He never worry about things that may harm the marriage, but instead himself.
> 
> ...



Were not in your situation, and like you said they're is more to the story than we know. I was just responding about Christmas and gifts. It's just a pain I am going through something a tad different than you but still it has to do with Christmas 

Wish you the best,
Have a great Christmas


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

@Lon, I could tell through your responses that there was more to your situation than your responses suggested. I'm sorry that your wife had an affair. That wasn't fair to you at all.

I personally haven't had an affair, but I've thought about it several times. I dream of affection and love. I imagine all the time someone being sweet and generous towards me. A wonderful guy who respects my wants and needs and even go out of his way to make me happy. However, I'm not going there. My faith in God keeps me on the right path and I also want blessings once I get out of this mess. I don't want nothing to burn me in the bridges. I definitely don't want another guy to influence my decision to leave because that can cause regrets. When I go, I want it to be solely for me.

Lon, there's no other way for me to show him how serious this is. I've said it and shown it. I sleep in another room, never talk to him, don't inform him about anything involving my life, etc. I've completely mentally separated myself and unfortunately he won't believe this until April. I can't leave before then because our place is in my name and he can't afford the rent. If I stop paying the rent that will hurt me (not him) and if I leave, I'd have to pay rent at 2 places and I'm not doing that.

However, I do wish you the best Lon and the only advice I have for you is in the future try to put your next partner's needs ahead of your own. Show her that you love her in a way that she understands and recongnizes it and not in the way that you feel like you SHOULD show her and she should accept that. That's just not how it works. My husband would always say, "everyone knows I love you" and I'd tell him, "what difference does that make if I don't know it." He just doesn't get it.

@Halfway, although you say our situations are definitely different our pain is probably the same. I'm sorry for whatever it is that you're going through during this time. This is the season for love and happiness, but I feel it brings out my pain because I lack so much love and happiness. On the other hand, I pray that you get through whatever is hurting you and find a way to have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year too.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Why is your husband not working?


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

R.J. said:


> he has convinced himself that he has a right to be himself 100% in this marriage and I should accept him as he is.


Did you NOT know him before you married him? :scratchhead: Was he always this way, even when dating? If you hate it now, why didn't you hate it then and just not marry him?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When it comes to gifts... I realized a long time ago that I would seldom get the gift I want from someone else for Christmas and my birthday. So every year I buy myself the gift I really want... I consider it a gift to myself.

My husband did not buy me any gifts the first few years we were married. I finally hit the roof about it. Since then he has discovered a bath shop and I now get tons of fancy bath stuff at every holiday.. more than I will ever use. I do love the gesture.. at least he's found something I use. I think it's sweet cause he cannot ever figure out anything but at least he gets that.

I started giving myself presents for Christmas the year I was 20. I was living in Dallas with my family. My parents decided to take the entire family to spend Christmas with my sister and her new baby in another state. Since I was working I could not go. They all left... and did not give me any presents. They took with them all the presents I had purchased for each person in my family.

I was feeling pretty upset about this... while walking home, by some big department store. There was a coat in the window.. a beatuful grey wool, 3/4 lenth coat with a fox colar. It looked like something a movie star would wear. I went into the store and bought it for myself... i felt like a million bucks in that coat. That was the first xmas present I bought my self... it was the only one I got that year. Since then I always get myself one. .. this year it was a Kindle + some electronic books. I arrived two days ago and I've been reading up a storm on it.. love it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

R.J. said:


> @Lon, I could tell through your responses that there was more to your situation than your responses suggested. I'm sorry that your wife had an affair. That wasn't fair to you at all.
> 
> Well, there is more and there isn't - I have been on this forum awhile now, and feel I have worked through many of my issues, I've accepted my separation, but the reason my responses have escalated along with yours are specifically because I feel like my experience relates a lot to your H's.
> 
> ...


RJ, I wish you all the best and hope that no matter what happens you and your H both find the happiness you both deserve...


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## oldfashioned1 (Oct 26, 2011)

I would have been so embarassed about that $2 issue in the store. I would have felt like hiding under the nearest thing. How in the world did the store clerk react to that? and can you just imagine that scene going on at the other store that his ex was at?

All I can think of here is "birds of a feather flock together" and when you described his ex as the looser that she seems to be....I hate to say this, but I would categorize him with her and get rid of him. Based on the way he seems to sit around and take advantage of you and not even hug or kiss you. I would think he probably goes around bragging to his friends that he has a sugarmomma. Get rid of him if he really is as bad as you describe. Sounds like he and she are the types of people to try and use others rather than being adults and planning and living a rewarding life with a spouse.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

R.J., here's what it boils down to: you don't want to be married to this man. He doesn't want to change. You don't like the way he is. (Frankly, he sounds like a typical passive-aggressive to me, and I don't care for them, having been married to one.)You are basically supporting him. It's not working. Now people will come on here and debate and debate, ad nauseum. Fine by me. To each his own.

I don't have a burning desire to parse words. Why don't you get an attorney and begin divorce proceedings? Sounds like you'd have a more fulfilling, less stressful life; one in which you and a future partner can meet one another's needs and share a life together. JMO.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

It seems you have already checked out of the marriage due to various reasons. Present him with papers as soon as you get your ducks in a row, life is to short.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*Knowone should have to completely change their identity for the sake of one's happiness, but one must be able to compromise and sacrifice themselves a bit in order for a marriage to work. You can't just do what or live how you want and expect the other partner to just accept it because "you're being you." Marriage doesn't work that way.*

Yes it does.... if you love "who" and "how" the person is before you marry them. One of the best things about my marriage is that we both agree it is soooooooooooooo awesome to be able to just BE YOURSELF, as opposed to trying to "be" who and how the (ex)spouse wanted. 

I agree that your M is going nowhere.... from this pov anyway... but KNOW that there are awesome marriages where you can be yourself, and so can he! And that feeling is amazing!


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

I never said that there aren't any good marriages out there, but I still stand by spouses have to bend to some degree to make a marriage work. Some couples may be completely compatible but there's still some sacrificing even in those types of relationships. Folks may disagree with me on this and that's fine. Everyone has a right to their opinion and my opinion is NO ONE is 100% themselves in a HEALTHY marriage anyways. Most of the time the reason marriages suffer is because no one wants to bend themselves a bit for the sake of the other's happiness. Also, for those who swear they're 100% themselves in their marriage & it's healthy and happy, then I challenge to really evaluate yourself & think about how much you may have changed to what your spouse wants you to be. Perhaps you've accepted it to a degree that you've convinced yourself that's whom you are but really you're not 100% yourself. You bent for the sake of your spouse's happiness. Just my thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

I honestly don't know why you would spend $1000 on a Christmas gift for someone who doesn't give well, and then have an expectation for an equal gift.

I also don't understand why you got so upset over the $2 shortage. Your husband's ex wife obviously has a harder lifestyle than you do, perhaps by her own fault, but nonetheless, I think that's rather harsh of you. 

You will never change this man, so if you feel this way about him and his behavior doesn't make you happy then perhaps it's time to let go and move on to find someone you are more compatible with.


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

@Lydia, first of all it's not your place to understand why I would spend $1000 on anyone. Secondly, where in any of my posts did I say that I expected an equal gift to what I spent on my husband's. I said that I expected to get what I asked him for, but instead I received what he wanted me to have. I bought his gift not being really concerned about the cost, but instead the fact that I knew he'd love it. I brought up the cost of his gift only to demonstrate how far I'm willing to go to make him happy, but on the other hand he's obviously not willing to do the same. I don't care if the gift that I wanted cost 1 cent. The point is that he should get me what I want and not what he thinks I should have.

Additionally if I'm harsh because I think it's atrocious for a grown woman who's well and able to get a job so that she could properly support her children, but instead she'd rather sit on her tail and wait fot a check to come into the mail and as a result she can't afford to cover a $2 expense for her son'es Christmas gift, then I'm proud to be harsh.

Finally who ever said that I was trying to change him? I'm not trying to do anything but accept he is who he is and unfortunately that doesn't work for me. Therefore I must keep it moving.

Don't pass judgment upon me for things that you don't understand. I'm not being harsh. What is harsh is how my husband and his ridiculous son's mother has taken advantage of me for years. That's what's harsh. What's even more harsh is that I've only been married for 3 years and now have to consider a divorce.

For everyone else who wants to know, he wasn't always this way, which is why I married him. Things have changed unfortunately for the worst. Now I'm left to pick up my own pieces.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

RJ you`re going to feel really crappy if tomorrow morning under your tree there is a bottle of Chance, a sewing machine, AND lingerie for you.



Would be nice wouldn`t it?
One can hope.


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

@Tacoma, IKR! Lol. Definitely unlikely, but if that was the case I'd get back on here & apologize. Lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> RJ you`re going to feel really crappy if tomorrow morning under your tree there is a bottle of Chance, a sewing machine, AND lingerie for you.


LOL! Everytime I pull something like that on the missus her p-ssed off behaviour prior to the surprise and her face afterwards is always priceless! xD It makes buying the gifts worth it! Good training for my poker face too, can be hard to stop laughing. But that game gets old after a while =(

So I'm not doing it until my gut tells me she has her guard down 



> Definitely unlikely


Pity... =/


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## Clarke (Dec 24, 2011)

R.J. said:


> Trey69, this thread is specifically about "SPOUSE AND CHRISTMAS DON'T MIX." I keep saying that I don't consider my marriage failed solely because of this gift thing, but due to other more serious factors. The gift giving topic is the latest thing that HAS LET ME DOWN!!!
> 
> You want to know our other problems, here we go:
> 
> ...


Wow! you know, this is more serious than you think. counselors, pastors or whatever will not solve the problem. what I see here is simply "RIPPLE EFFECT"

Remember, this man has been divorced before {reasons unknown to me..except that according to you, his wife is atrocious} this experience would naturally put him on guard {which I would politely say you should have noticed before marrying him}
Also, you may not have observed that he's being bullied by his obnoxious ex-wife. Although, he's a man so it won't be obvious to you, but from your report of the 'christmas gift' incidence, it's obvious. so it's not like he's putting other people's needs before your's, Just that he's lost his personality to a controlling woman, and he's unconsciously trying to find himself, but he's so deep in sh!t that he's now really confused, frustrated and bitter with himself, and thats what he's taking out on you.
One who hates himself cannot love another {not even if they wanted to}

Tell you what, if you threathen him that you are living right now, and seriously act as though you are, he'll probably flare at first to try to intimidate you {ego @ work}, but eventually shed tears at your feet, pleading that you stay.....Although, sadly, that wouldn't change him. you'll give him a thousand 'second chances', but he'll keep messing up. probably treat you like a queen for some hours..or possibly days, and then the trance wears off. 

I've known someone just like that for a good chunk of my life, irresponsible, bitter and obnoxious. But the truth is; he loved the lady. he sincerely did. and this fact was revealed at times when she'd practically left. He'd do just anything to stop, or get her back. And I mean literally ANYTHING. like running and screaming after a moving vehicle which she'd boarded, not caring that he may get crushed. Now for a normally 'bashful' and 'reserved' personality, this act was totally out of the way.

From your post, he doesn't like crowds; a sign of 'shyness and Ego' {again, he's a man so that may not be so obvious} therefore, he probably has huge EGO problems. Don't be surprised if he lashes out at you for telling him that his ex-wife is BULLYING him. Note that persons with Ego issues always seek reassurance by trying to dominate those they CAN control. Apparently, he tries to control you..and even your desires. If only you could turn very nasty and Obnoxious towards him, I mean really cruel and nasty, trust me; he'll become your stooge. Thats how it works with such people. {But also note that he's not delibrately ill-treating you; he's simply lost his personality and just doesn't know how to love anymore}

Thats why I called it 'ripple effect'. and fact is; such situation doesn't get any better. It's a dead end! So don't try to tolerate him anymore. otherwise he'll destroy you and loathe himself the more for ruining anything he lays his hand upon. the end is "total destruction!"

So here's my suggestion {If you love him at all}; Divorce him alright, but try this before doing so;
On a neutral day when there's no tension {or less tension} between the two of you, get a piece of paper then ask him to write down all those things he dislikes about you. Coax him into doing it because he naturally would tend to dismiss the Idea as 'childish' or 'irrelevant'. Insist politely. Make it seem like you're the one with all the problems {thats what he believes anyway} and that you're willing to change. feed his Ego.

Once he's done with writing, ask him to write the things he likes about you. He probably wouldn't have much to write this time since he's convinced himself severally that you're difficult, insatiable and impossible. 
Now compare the results, convincing him that you're not good enough for him and shouldn't be a burden he has to bear.{I don't know if you've had any kids for him..you don't sound like you do though, and that would be perfect for you}

He might try to insist that you stay, that he'll try cope with all your vices, but stand your ground. The big Idea is to;

1. Not make him feel like a total failure by telling him the real facts. this would only put him on the defensive, resentful, and possibly furious side. he won't learn anything and this might even lead to severe "self-loathe" or suicide after you're gone {if he really has the kind of problems he seems to have} 

2. cleverly bring certain things to his consciousness. like how much he needs, appreciates, cherishes you and those things he'll miss the most about you, and how much of an Idiot he'd been to have taken those things for granted. This might MIRACULOUSLY change his attitude towards you. he might become more open to you, asking you to teach him how to love you, and relaxing on himself. Ego is what is standing inbetween. If you can cleverly get rid of it, he'll become such a wonderful person to you. 
thats the result we're hoping to acheive..but don't bank on it. the chances are low.

Final Summation;
Don't try to tolerate him or he might ruin you. 
Don't leave him in anger or in a fight; the result might be tragic.
He wants to love you right, but can't find the right way.
Still Don't tolerate him except our little plan works like magic.

Good luck.


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## R.J. (Dec 7, 2011)

Wow Clarke. Thanks for the suggestions and hard facts. I've definitely realize that things will never ever change with him. Also, I think you hit the nail when you spoke about the dominance and ego stuff. He's the most controlling and dominant person I know. It's really bad and these posts to begin to describe what I'm truly dealing with.

Anyhow, thanks for the input.


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