# Divorce after 19 years



## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

I first posted in another forum, but my situation has changed and this seems a more appropriate forum. I pasted my original thread below. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...appy-marriage-maybe-looking-someone-else.html

Basically my wife and I got involved young and had a child. We have been together 19 years and married 10 years next month. About 3 years ago I discovered she was having an emotional affair with a coworker. After confronting her I thought she regretted it and it would end. Silly me. It did not end and every so often I would discover this. Over the years I had asked if she wanted to go to MC and she never would. After the EA, I told her we had to. She went unwillingly 4-5 times and then she stopped. After finding out they still contacted each other I started IC. It seemed like it stopped about 9 months ago. 

She took a job on another floor at the hospital (she's a nurse) and things seemed like they were going really good between us (finally). Looks can be deceiving. I noticed an crazy number of texts on the phone bill to one number. I found out it was a different guy she works with. I confronted her and she lied and said it was a female. I called her out and she admitted it was another coworker going through a divorce and having a hard time. She said she was scared to tell me because of the past. 

A couple weeks later I found some messages where he said he wanted her, sent her a kiss emoji, said he missed her and she said she missed him. I confronted her and finally she said she needed space to figure things out. Space from me but not the OM. Long story short, on April 1 she said she didn't want to do this anymore so here we are, planning for D. I told her since she wants it she has to start the process. We both agreed to mediation. Gave her a couple days to call. Took over a week. Didn't understand the delay since she wants D. This is her personality though. Has never addressed problems or communicated, defensive. 

Our appointment isn't for another 2 weeks. I told her I want to tell our 17 year old but she doesn't want to until we meet with thE mediator. I am afraid he will figure something out. Neither of us are wearing our rings and she sleeps in our younger boys room (4 and 6 years old). I also want to call the realtor as we have to sell the house but she wants to wait for that also. I told her I want to get this over ASAP so me and the boys can heal and move on. She continues these EA's and it kills me to see her. Whenever she is on her phone I assume it is with the OM. I tried for so long to make this work. Big mistake. 

Since all this happened I decided to take the high road. I am practicing a limited 180 since we are in the same house with kids. I talk only about the kids and am civil and polite. I say hello and goodbye. But she has had an attitude throughout. My IC said she probably doesn't want to say anything to me, especially since she said I act like nothing is wrong. Yeah, because of the kids. 

It is so hard to be in this house with her. I really do love her and deep down part of me wants her to realize what she did and to be truly remorseful. I know this won't happen, and this is probably for the best. It's making me mental though.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I agree with what you are doing, if she wants the divorce let her get the ball rolling. It sounds like she is scared to do it. Just do the 180 and be civil to her since you have children.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Sorry you are going through this.

Our kids (12,14,17,20...) were aware once we started working with a mediator (good idea to have a mediated D to save $$$, speed up the process, and preserve whatever shred of goodwill remains between you for parenting)

I was in the same house with H for several months and it was extremely stressful and emotionally draining. If I was you, I would bring up at the mediator appt that you would like to make an immediate agreement for one of you to relocate (without being accused of abandonment and penalized in the divorce/custody)


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think you need to get the ball rolling and have her served.

You will wait for ever for her to make a move. She isn't sure this new relationship will work out and knows you will be around as back-up...plan B if you will.

I suggest you make her face her new reality by moving forward with getting the divorce and putting the house up for sale.

She wants to delay delay delay.....cuz if this affair doesn't work out she will be screwed. So act now and show her you mean business.

Stop letting her have the power....she cheated on you and now expects you to wait and see if this new relationship will work out.

Phuck that limbo bull crap and make the move! Maybe seeing her new reality just might bring her out of this affair fog.

You just might get some respect back when your old lady sees you are done with her and will not wait for the scraps she has to offer you when this affair falls apart.

Show your wife how confident you are in letting her go. Show her you will not stand by while she screws around with someone else.

Until *you* make the move and the steps needed to end this marriage your wife will never second guess her choice or think twice about what she is losing.

Don't let her have her cake...show her you will not be her plan B.

It just might save your marriage.

If you try to nice your way out of this it will be a long a painful road.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Blonde said:


> Sorry you are going through this.
> 
> Our kids (12,14,17,20...) were aware once we started working with a mediator (good idea to have a mediated D to save $$$, speed up the process, and preserve whatever shred of goodwill remains between you for parenting)
> 
> I was in the same house with H for several months and it was extremely stressful and emotionally draining. If I was you, I would bring up at the mediator appt that you would like to make an immediate agreement for one of you to relocate (without being accused of abandonment and penalized in the divorce/custody)


Yes, it is very stressful. I just want this to all be over as quickly as possible. Being in the same house makes me think of all that is changing/has changed. Unfortunately we are not in the position for one of us to leave until the house is sold. At that time we will both have to find something in the same town as we want to keep the kids in the same school system. 

She was actually pleasant to me yesterday the few times we spoke. It is so hard not talking to her unless necessary (doing the 180). To go from having that daily interaction with your spouse to nothing...heart wrenching. I know this is her choice though and it is not my fault.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

So I sent her a text this morning saying I think we should talk to your 17 year old. I keep telling her he is going to suspect something, especially since she sleeps in the little boys room now. My father is coming to visit later this week and she said she would stay at her parents (yeah, right!), so I asked what is our son going to think when she is not around and he knows she is not working. I think he needs to know before he hears it from someone else, and also as he notices these changes I do not want him thinking it has something to do with him. He is on school vacation this week, so at least he has some time to process this before he has to go back.

As far as I know she hasn't told her parents yet. Also, we had planned a 10 year anniversary trip to Mexico in the beginning of May. That has been cancelled. Her mother had taken vacation time to watch our boys while we were gone and she hasn't told her yet we cancelled the trip. She avoids everything, except talking to the POSOM!!!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sounds like she's still trying to figure out if she can have her cake and eat it, too!! 

Keep in mind, you don't know what she's being fed by the POSOM....maybe he's saying, if you could just told out until xyz, I'll be in a place where we can move in together/you can live with me, etc. Who knows why she'd dawdling....

I think you need to just file the papers. Also, I'd say, "You're being disrespectful to your mom by not telling her about the trip being off....if you don't tell her by tomorrow, I will." 

I don't know what the advice from other posters will be about this, but maybe tell her when you're planning on sitting down with your older son and invite her to be a part of it. If not, shows more about her character . 

(FYI when we told our kids the first time, my ex refused to be a part of it since I was the one filing...because he cheated. We reconciled and are now splitting up and he told them without telling me...just sent me an FYI email the next day....I was livid.)


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Around here, they usually recommend immediate exposure. When Should an Affair Be Exposed

I disagree with the people who recommend filing unilaterally. If you do that, you are setting this up for a contested divorce rather than a mediated divorce. To me, the lawyers seem to encourage acrimony and fighting which (of course) gives them a bigger payday.

You already have the appointment for mediation so sit tight. My H and I are using mediation. The mediator said that CAN go as fast as 4 months (to final divorce). It has been 3 months and I an out of the house with the children. We haven't actually signed legal paperwork yet but that is because of US, not the mediator. We waited till H hit the magical 59 1/2 and we had some things to do to set it up for cost savings. For example he is rolling several old 401K and 403B's to one IRA so that we can transfer the funds to my name without a lawyer and without an expensive QDRO for each one.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Troop said:


> Yes, it is very stressful. I just want this to all be over as quickly as possible. Being in the same house makes me think of all that is changing/has changed. Unfortunately we are not in the position for one of us to leave until the house is sold. At that time we will both have to find something in the same town as we want to keep the kids in the same school system.


You mentioned your W staying with her parents over the weekend so you ARE in a position for her to leave. She can go stay with them.

Or do *you* have relatives locally you could stay with? 

I'm just saying that because it was torture to be in the same house with him the way he was behaving, absolute torture. 

I also want you to be aware of something which seems to be uniquely female



> She took a job on another floor at the hospital (she's a nurse) and things seemed like they were going really good between us (finally). Looks can be deceiving.


Let me guess: the frequency and intensity of sex had a big uptick? (which caused you assume everything was peachy )

That's because she was thinking of him while you were doing her. He was meeting her EN's which made her horny for him but she wasn't ready to consummate with him yet. Once she consummates with him, she will be monogamous with him and sex with you will stop.

Men are different. H was doing the secretary and still hitting on me daily (no thanks! not interested in STD's!)


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

She wants everything, a marriage, the OW, the facade of a good mother and daughter. So from her point of view actually going through the process of mediation and separation puts a crimp in her facade. S$cks to be her.

You might have to pull the plug for her in terms of the legal process. That doesn't mean your aggressive, but she's lost the right to call the shots with her infidelity.

Its always better for both parents to be involved in telling the kids, and its usually a good idea to have a plan you can tell them about, particularly where they will live and with whom. But if she is unable to face her actions, you might have to do that to. I suggest you tell her that you are going to discuss this with the 17 year old and she can either participate or not. And I bet you dollars to donuts he already knows. 

I'm sorry you are in pain. It may sound trite but honestly, life will get better. Don't rush the healing process and consider getting some therapy for you and/or the kids. The older one may be filled with anger and not understand where to direct it, the younger ones will be scared and confused.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> I'm sorry you are in pain. It may sound trite but honestly, life will get better. Don't rush the healing process and consider getting some therapy for you and/or the kids. The older one may be filled with anger and not understand where to direct it, the younger ones will be scared and confused.


I've been in therapy for about 1.5 years now, as a result of all this. My parents divorced when I was about 12, so I have some perspective on what the oldest will go through. I was still angry about my parents into my late 30's. Even though I have let go of most of my anger, there is still a little bit left.

She wanted to wait to tell him until we met with the mediator so we had a more "concrete plan" on the time frame to tell him. I told her that is really unkown because we will be in the same house until it is sold. The divorce will occur first. Her parents are about 30 minutes away. She would not move out and leave the kids, and doing that would be difficult because the two of us provide all the care. We work opposite schedules, so we trade off kids on nights she works (3 nights a week). 

I said what we need to tell him is none of this is his (or his brothers) fault. It is between her and I. They need to know both of us love them all with all our hearts and that will never change. As far as living arrangements, it will be split custody and we will live in the same town. Both of us are extremely involved parents. So we can tell him that they will be living at both houses. As far as specific days of the week, that will always be different due to work schedules.

Thank you all for your advice and support. This is so hard. Before all this, I would have kept everything in and just tried to cope. I cannot function that way anymore. I've turned to my friends, and this board is helping also.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Troop said:


> I've been in therapy for about 1.5 years now, as a result of all this. My parents divorced when I was about 12, so I have some perspective on what the oldest will go through. I was still angry about my parents into my late 30's. Even though I have let go of most of my anger, there is still a little bit left.
> 
> She wanted to wait to tell him until we met with the mediator so we had a more "concrete plan" on the time frame to tell him. I told her that is really unkown because we will be in the same house until it is sold. The divorce will occur first. Her parents are about 30 minutes away. She would not move out and leave the kids, and doing that would be difficult because the two of us provide all the care. We work opposite schedules, so we trade off kids on nights she works (3 nights a week).
> 
> ...


Hi Troop.

So sorry you are going thru this. You are doing the right thing, i can't say anythig more tan the good advice you have received here.

it's time for your cheating W to face the consequences, no more cake eating. You are acting responsably and yes your 17 year old should know from both of you. Seems like your W is acting like a child and doesn't want to be a parent here, keep it strong for your children, they need at least one stable parent.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

Everyone is so PC here.
17 year olds are smart these days... and perceptive.
You think he doesn't know whats going on?

Be honest with your 17 year old or it will come back to bite you on the butt. 

Your wife, his mother, is destroying his family and he has a right to know the truth and make up his own mind.

Screw what she wants. She's cheating. She is breaking your heart and soon will break (if not already suffering in silence) his.

Tell the truth as the truth is.

It is HER fault. No one elses.

I have 3. 21, 23 & 28. When things were tough between w & myself, I had to tell the truth, cause they thought THEY were the problem. It wasn't me who was going crazy. It was her.
I had to tell them the truth. They were 16, 18 & 23 at the time, knew something was up and were stressing that it was their fault.

I did the right thing. We are still together. TAM advice is GOOD advice. Man up and take charge. Be kind and courageous.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

She finally agreed that we should let our oldest know, but of course there are excuses like she doesn't want to go to work the night we tell him, etc. 

It is so stressful being around her since I do still love her and am scared about the future - kids, housing, finances. It is like she doesn't deal with anything, which is why we are in the place to begin with. She would never communicate. 

I made a list of reasons why we shouldn't be together today. Maybe that will help me to realize it maybe it is for the best. In the end she was not really loving and caring towards me. Maybe she just tolerated me...idk. I end up questioning everything about our marriage. I guess I was willing to live with a less than perfect marriage. 

Been going to gym and running. Our middle son has baseball practice tonight (I'm a coach) so that will help get my mind off this for a little bit at least.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Troop said:


> She finally agreed that we should let our oldest know, but of course there are excuses like she doesn't want to go to work the night we tell him, etc.
> 
> It is so stressful being around her since I do still love her and am scared about the future - kids, housing, finances. It is like she doesn't deal with anything, which is why we are in the place to begin with. She would never communicate.
> 
> ...



Um, your cheating wife lost the privilege of stage-managing how to reveal her behavior a long time ago.

You should tell your kids that you are divorcing and why. You don't have to go into a disgusting level of detail, but a teenager can handle that mom is cheating.

Anticipate alarmed reaction and deal with it.

Have her served for crissakes. 

Own your future, do not cede it to her, she is not worth it.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

> In the end she was not really loving and caring towards me. Maybe she just tolerated me...idk. I end up questioning everything about our marriage.


TBH your lifestyle of opposite shifts plus the busyness of a teen and little kids 4 and 6 (just finished toddlerhood and before that pregnancy)... does not provide a lot of TIME in the schedule for undivided attention and emotional connection

Those long lonely night shifts OTH...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OP, let me share something from my divorce and, as with all the other advice on TAM, you can do what you like with it.

My elder child discovered her dad's infidelity before I ever confronted him. She was about 14 at the time. When we told our youngest (about 11 back then) we were separating, we gave the PC crap about not getting along and fighting too much. So then we had the situation where one child knew the truth and one didn't. The worst decision I ever made in my life.

The older child was, understandably having a lot of problems dealing. My ex was furious with her, blamed her for the divorce, which was so not true, offered to commit suicide for her. The younger child was scared and confused because she didn't understand why her sister and father were behaving that way, and the older child felt like she was completely isolated. They were both sinking. I mentioned this to my then STBX who said "whatever" and then refused to discuss it further. So I told my younger what dad had done, and what her sibling discovered. For them, at that time, it was the best thing to do. The younger suddenly understood what had been going on with her sister, and the older one had her sibling back.

Just wanted to share my experience of having one child know the truth and leaving the others out of the loop.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> OP, let me share something from my divorce and, as with all the other advice on TAM, you can do what you like with it.
> 
> My elder child discovered her dad's infidelity before I ever confronted him. She was about 14 at the time. When we told our youngest (about 11 back then) we were separating, we gave the PC crap about not getting along and fighting too much. So then we had the situation where one child knew the truth and one didn't. The worst decision I ever made in my life.
> 
> ...


Deep down I want our 17 year old to know what his mom has done, and this is not an acceptable example to set. However, I need to co-parent with her and do not need any issues there. Also, I don't want my sons to view their mother in that negative a way as we all will be interacting a lot. My therapist said that kids see themselves as a reflection of their parents. If this is true I wouldn't want him hating his mother for what she did.

I think he will find eventually anyway. People talk. I will inform her parents what she did to the marriage and how she never wanted to work on it. How they will feel about that, I don't know. At first I wasn't going to, but then I decided why am I going to let her spin this her way when I have been working my ass off for 3 years trying to save this marriage.

The other boys are 4 and 6, so they wouldn't get the intimate details anyways.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

My inlaws were over last night to pick up the little boys for a sleep over. Wife was at work. They are so clueless about all this and are going to be blindsided. 

I told her I want us to tell him this afternoon. I don't care if she has to work after. She can deal with what she has caused. 

On another note, one of my friends got me worried by saying if she wants to keep the house for her and the kids she can go for child support. We had talked about everything being equal (custody, support, we make the same). I didn't think she would do that, but I also never thought she would have done any of this other stuff also. This is so stressful.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Who is OM? Is he married with kids? Does his wife/GF know?


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Who is OM? Is he married with kids? Does his wife/GF know?


He works with my wife. He is going through a divorce. When I first discovered they were texting she told me he was having a hard time, was angry about it, and was talking to her about it. He has a daughter, I think 2 years old.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Troop said:


> He works with my wife. He is going through a divorce. When I first discovered they were texting she told me he was having a hard time, was angry about it, and was talking to her about it. He has a daughter, I think 2 years old.


A 2 year old. fricking $$hole. I don't get how can people with small children like that just fricking give up, IDK even with infidelity you woulkd think people would try at least-


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Troop said:


> My inlaws were over last night to pick up the little boys for a sleep over. Wife was at work. They are so clueless about all this and are going to be blindsided.
> 
> I told her I want us to tell him this afternoon. I don't care if she has to work after. She can deal with what she has caused.
> 
> On another note, one of my friends got me worried by saying if she wants to keep the house for her and the kids she can go for child support. We had talked about everything being equal (custody, support, we make the same). I didn't think she would do that, but I also never thought she would have done any of this other stuff also. This is so stressful.


Get your lawyer ASAP, remember that D brings out the worst in some people, specially with $$ involved.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Have you two spoken about the house (probably not since she won't talk about this). Courts have the authority to award support in kind, like exclusive possession of the marital home as part of child support or spousal support award.

That's why you need to speak to an attorney to know where you stand. In a perfect world financially, I would think you would sell the house and split the proceeds and each of you get your own place. But then again, she's not big on make decisions.
Hope the talks go well for you.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Have you two spoken about the house (probably not since she won't talk about this). Courts have the authority to award support in kind, like exclusive possession of the marital home as part of child support or spousal support award.
> 
> That's why you need to speak to an attorney to know where you stand. In a perfect world financially, I would think you would sell the house and split the proceeds and each of you get your own place. But then again, she's not big on make decisions.
> Hope the talks go well for you.


We did "talk" about it, but it was mostly me trying to figure out what would happen. Since our income is roughly the same and we will have the kids equally, I said we would have to sell the house and split the equity. We also have a few repairs to do prior to selling (finish building a deck). Then we would each have to find our own places in town. We are going to stay in the same town so the kids can stay in the school system. 

At one point she said she wanted to try to keep the house. In my mind there was no way since she won't have the money to buy me out (unless she uses her retirement). Even if she did that, she could never swing the mortgage on her income. Basically both of our salaries went towards that. The next day she realized that she could not afford it.

I was not even thinking about spousal support or child support because our income is the same and the split childcare. It didn't make sense that I would be told I had to pay and have the kids the same amount as her. But maybe I need to be worried.....

I do have an attorney and will be discussing this before we meet with the mediator.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Don't worry too much. Every state has a child support statute that sets out how to figure out child support obligations. There are a couple of online child support calculators you can always poke around with, but those rarely take into account how much time each parent has with the kids, so they result in an extremely rough calculation.

I have a couple of friends that share custody, with physical custody changing every week. The only money that ever changes hands is medical/dental payments, and the occasional extra-curricular. You have enough going on, don't worry until its time to worry.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I would get in contact with OMstbx because your wife might have been a factor in the break up of his marriage. Good to know about it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Get an attorney on board.

Go to Mexico without her.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

It's all done by formulas and the idea is to split assets evenly.

If you have equal incomes and the child custody is split evenly, I don't think she could get spousal maintenance/alimony. Spousal maintenance is for when there is an inequity in income- eg SAHM who has been primary caretaker of children, sacrificed career opportunities, and will continue being primary caretaker of the children.

IME if you EACH have lawyers, they suggest asking for the moon and planning to negotiate down. Both H and I hired our own lawyer to look over our mediated agreement and both lawyers told us "you can get more $$$" :scratchhead: His lawyer at least told him "but you will spend it all on attorney's fees and create hostility"

With mediation, you and your W do some research online about division of assets and then agree as to what is reasonable and you write up your own agreement. I strongly suggest and recommend that route. That is what H and I are doing. Celebrate Mediation Day: Top 10 Reasons To Mediate Your DivorceÂ*|Â*Sherri Donovan, Esq.

You can find your state's formulas for child support and maintenance online and plug in your salaries (and both see that she doesn't qualify). However, if your W decides she wants to go for full custody and wins, she would get child support.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Blonde said:


> It's all done by formulas and the idea is to split assets evenly.
> 
> If you have equal incomes and the child custody is split evenly, I don't think she could get spousal maintenance/alimony. Spousal maintenance is for when there is an inequity in income- eg SAHM who has been primary caretaker of children, sacrificed career opportunities, and will continue being primary caretaker of the children.
> 
> ...


That puts my mind at ease a bit. When I said I have an attorney, it is my mother's boss who has always handled our real estate transactions, wills, etc. I spoke with him about a month ago about the situation to get an idea where I stood and to make sure I am protected. He advised not to move out of the house or bedroom. If she wanted space, let her go find it.

Got home yesterday thinking we were going to talk to the oldest. She said she did not feel it was fair that after the conversation she would have to go to work. I told her she was being selfish and only thinking of herself and it was not fair to keep this from him. He is on break right now and would have a couple days to process. I am out of town next week, so we would have to wait another 1.5 weeks to tell him. 

I have been doing the 180, only talking to her about the kids, but I was weak at this moment. All the pent up frustration came out. I told her she is living in a fantasy world and needs to deal with me and the kids first. She wanted all this, but is doing nothing to move it forward. She lied and cheated for years, making me believe things were good and then does this. I said I hope you can live with all that you have done and the way you treat people. 

I explained we should be discussing things like how we will split time with the kids, holidays, birthdays, etc and what to do with our possessions. We should have an idea of all this and then finalize and put it on paper with the mediator. Instead I said you are doing nothing but living in this fantasy. Maybe you are OK living this way, but I am not and it is not good for the kids.

Afterwards I felt like I took a step backward by saying all this to her, but it did feel good to get it out. Whether she has any thoughts on it, I have no idea. I told her I have every right to call her every name in the book but I am still amicable and pleasant to her, never saying anything bad. Meanwhile she has said I am an a-hole. I told her I know I am not and she is just trying to spin things.

I feel like I cannot begin to distance myself from her because we will be living together until we can sell the house. It is so awkward. And yet I still have feelings for her. I think about all that is gone, all that we have experienced and what we had planned in the future. How does someone just walk away and shut their spouse out all of a sudden. I wish I could just say FU and move on, but can't with because of the kids.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You did not bungle the 180 by discussing issues. However, you may have given off a needy vibe and that is not part of the 180. However, a perfect 180 is an ideal that many fail to live up to. So, don't sweat it.

Did you ever meet OM's wife to discuss how she experienced the break up of her marriage? Don't tell your wife if you contact her.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Did you ever meet OM's wife to discuss how she experienced the break up of her marriage? Don't tell your wife if you contact her.


No I haven't. I do not know her or him, and have no way contact information. Don't know if I would be comfortable with that anyway.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Did you ever meet OM's wife to discuss how she experienced the break up of her marriage? Don't tell your wife if you contact her.


^^do it

I wonder if OMW even knows? And I think affair most certainly came first THEN marriage trouble.

Did you read the link I posted on exposure? I think exposure to some key people is healthy- your inlaws, your kids, OMW, etc. It interrupts the fantasy aspect. I wouldn't go all nuclear with it with social media and cheaterville and all that but just a reality check with the people closest to the situation.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Blonde said:


> ^^do it
> 
> I wonder if OMW even knows? And I think affair most certainly came first THEN marriage trouble.
> 
> Did you read the link I posted on exposure? I think exposure to some key people is healthy- your inlaws, your kids, OMW, etc. It interrupts the fantasy aspect. I wouldn't go all nuclear with it with social media and cheaterville and all that but just a reality check with the people closest to the situation.


The OM and OMW were split up before this relationship started with my wife. They split last fall and my wife started this with him this year.

I am definitely going to inform my inlaws. My father is coming to stay with us today for a few days, and I will tell him also. Originally she was supposedly going to stay with her parents, but now she said she will be at home. I said fine, but my father will know what has happened. Might be an uncomfortable couple of days.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Troop said:


> The OM and OMW were split up before this relationship started with my wife. They split last fall and my wife started this with him this year.


Do you *know* that is true or is that what OM told your W to make her more... um... receptive? Just sayin'

A talk to OMW would clarify


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Good of you to share with you father. I'm sure he will be able to offer you some support, and may even help you convince your WW to communicate.

You two simple have to tell your kids and with sufficient time to allow them to process the information, ask questions about their future living situations and to hear multiple times from both of you that this isn't their fault.

The 180 is really about helping you detach from the toxic relationship. Sometimes you can strictly apply, and sometimes you have a slip. Your talk with her was not much, assuming there was not yelling and screaming. It sounds like it was basically communicating about the logistics of separation, which you just gotta do. 

And I agree with Blonde when it comes to speaking to OMW. She may or may not know, and regardless of the health of her own marriage, she should know. If your source of information is your WW, well, you already know how what she says is not always telling truth. Verify everything.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Troop said:


> That puts my mind at ease a bit. When I said I have an attorney, it is my mother's boss who has always handled our real estate transactions, wills, etc. I spoke with him about a month ago about the situation to get an idea where I stood and to make sure I am protected. He advised not to move out of the house or bedroom. If she wanted space, let her go find it.


You do have an appt with a mediator (who is a lawyer, who does marital separation agreements) right?

You are right that you and your W should be talking about what is going to go into that agreement. You can prepare for the meeting by making a list of your assets and debts and by gathering the most recent quarterly statements from retirement accounts, bank statements, loan balance statements, etc.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Blonde said:


> You do have an appt with a mediator (who is a lawyer, who does marital separation agreements) right?
> 
> You are right that you and your W should be talking about what is going to go into that agreement. You can prepare for the meeting by making a list of your assets and debts and by gathering the most recent quarterly statements from retirement accounts, bank statements, loan balance statements, etc.


Yes we do. The appointment is April 27. I would have liked it to be sooner, but that was all that was available. I just want to get this moving ASAP. She is the one dragging her feet on everything, which I told her makes no sense to me. She wants it, but takes no action. That is how she has always been with problems, in denial. She figures if she avoids them they will go away.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Divorce after 19 yea__*

You have the appt and she is going to that. Might be a blessing in disguise that she is wrapped up in fantasy land and not too focused on the nuts and bolts.

Make sure to be prepared with a list of what you want in the agreement such as joint 50/50 custody, no child support either way, staying in the same school district, etc

Reminds me: bring your 1040 and w-2's for 2014. Those wage numbers can go right in the document.

Look into how you want to word college tuition. It's a big expense when it comes. Our MSA says: ___ and ___ agree to assist the children college tuition costs until the children are no longer considered dependents for college tuition purposes, which is age 24 or married. Both will contribute to EFC per FAFSA calculation pro-rata per income.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

*Re: Divorce after 19 yea__*



Blonde said:


> You have the appt and she is going to that. Might be a blessing in disguise that she is wrapped up in fantasy land and not too focused on the nuts and bolts.
> 
> Make sure to be prepared with a list of what you want in the agreement such as joint 50/50 custody, no child support either way, staying in the same school district, etc
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice with the mediator. I started to make a list earlier, but there is so much to figure out. I told her yesterday that we should be discussing these things now and wrap them up with the mediator.

Do you think we should talk to another mediator also in case we are more comfortable with someone else?


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Picking my father up in a couple hours and am going to explain the situation to him on the way home. Hopefully he can put a smile on his face when he sees his grandsons so they do not suspect anything. My wife will there, so it will be interesting to see how she acts. She asked the other day if he knew, and I said I was telling him in person. I said again yesterday that I was telling him when he is here.

Feeling a lot of anxiety today, along with anger and confusion. I am thinking the confusion won't go away since I will never understand her. On a plus I told another coworker what is going on. It feels good to talk about it, something I would never have considered a few years ago.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Divorce after 19 yea__*



Troop said:


> Do you think we should talk to another mediator also in case we are more comfortable with someone else?


I would go ahead and make an appt with a second one since it takes so long to get an appt. You can always cancel it if you like the first one. From online research, we picked the one with the most experience who specializes in mediation (which is rare in my area)

We met the first time, gave him the lists of what we wanted and the assets, incomes, and whatnot. He made a draft MSA and e-mailed it. All the hashing out of details and corrections is between H and I. We met a second time to clarify our changes. He sent a revised draft via e-mail. Once our final corrections are made we will meet a third and final time to sign. At that point it is filed with the county clerk and becomes a legal separation at a total cost of 1200. For another 1200, he will prepare the rest of the paperwork and file the divorce to finalization. No court appearances, no judge decisions. Rubber stamp.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Troop said:


> On a plus I told another coworker what is going on. It feels good to talk about it, something I would never have considered a few years ago.


A male co-worker I hope. Wouldn't want to have both of you crying on co-workers shoulders and then hopping in bed with them to consummate the "intimacy". Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Another thing to consider is a collaborative divorce. Mediators are necessarily attorneys and in lots of jurisdictions they can't advise about anything. They also have no ability to make either side do anything. So it works if you already know how to divide things and need someone to put it in a proper form.

A collaborative divorce is handled by attorneys, with each side having their own counsel, but without court hearings. The difference is you have an attorney to say this is a horrible deal, or a court will never sign-off on this, or this is a very fair deal. Sort of the same as mediation, but you have a bit more guidance from an attorney. Both are far less costly than a contested divorce.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Please consider getting an attorney that specializes in divorce and/or family law. Do not use a real estate attorney for your divorce action, especially if your wife decides to hire a divorce attorney.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Another thing to consider is a collaborative divorce. Mediators are necessarily attorneys and in lots of jurisdictions they can't advise about anything. They also have no ability to make either side do anything. So it works if you already know how to divide things and need someone to put it in a proper form.
> 
> A collaborative divorce is handled by attorneys, with each side having their own counsel, but without court hearings. The difference is you have an attorney to say this is a horrible deal, or a court will never sign-off on this, or this is a very fair deal. Sort of the same as mediation, but you have a bit more guidance from an attorney. Both are far less costly than a contested divorce.


The person is a lawyer who does both mediations and collaborative divorces. Whatever agreement we come up with I plan on having my mother's boss (an attorney) review it also.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Our mediator does advise and correct, but very evenhandedly. He also states what is typical and what a judge would question (eg. attempting to short the child support- which is calculated by a formula). He gave options in the wording of some clauses where we pick one (the dependent exemptions on income taxes had two options- typically, the exemptions are split)


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Told my father, sister, and close buddy at work. Feels good in a way getting it out. 

My dad, sons and I went to chinese last night. They all invited my wife but she said no. Had the oldest text her if she wanted takeout. Said no. When we got homes he wasn't here and there was no note. Little kids freaked out Cuz they didn't know where she was. One said "didn't you talk to her about this before?" She did it earlier this week also. Went running while we were playing in the backyard and didn't say anything. 

I texted her that her kids are upset they don't know where she is and thought she would be home. No response. She told my oldest she went to a work friends house to watch a movie. 

Comes home at 1am and I told her to stop being selfish and living in her fantasy works. We have 3 kids to take care of. They were upset and I am the one that has to deal with it. I told her she was messed up. 

She agreed that we will talk to our oldest tonight and I said your not going to back out again are you? We shall see....


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Troop said:


> Told my father, sister, and close buddy at work. Feels good in a way getting it out.
> 
> My dad, sons and I went to chinese last night. They all invited my wife but she said no. Had the oldest text her if she wanted takeout. Said no. When we got homes he wasn't here and there was no note. Little kids freaked out Cuz they didn't know where she was. One said "didn't you talk to her about this before?" She did it earlier this week also. Went running while we were playing in the backyard and didn't say anything.
> 
> ...


How selfish of her. You keep doing a good job with sons and be part of their lives always. One day all the time and effot put in into their lives will pay off.

X needs to get her act together at least for son's well being.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Honestly, Troop, I just want to smack her, and I am a pacifist.
If she backs out again tonight, I think you should tell the oldest by yourself. You have given her several opportunities and I bet her erratic behavior will only increase in the near future. People go crazy during these times. So she's leaving it to you to be the anchor. Yes in a perfect world both parents should do this together. But if this were a perfect world you'd never need to to have this kind of a conversation with your son in the first place.

I sincerely hope you have a good visit with your Dad.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Honestly, Troop, I just want to smack her, and I am a pacifist.
> If she backs out again tonight, I think you should tell the oldest by yourself. You have given her several opportunities and I bet her erratic behavior will only increase in the near future. People go crazy during these times. So she's leaving it to you to be the anchor. Yes in a perfect world both parents should do this together. But if this were a perfect world you'd never need to to have this kind of a conversation with your son in the first place.
> 
> I sincerely hope you have a good visit with your Dad.


Broke the news to my dad. He was upset but he is not asupportive person. Unfortunately my family is not like that. I have to rely on friends. 

Yesterday morning I sat down and tried to have another conversation with her. Asked her if she realizes that she is forgetting about our 3 kids, that we need to take care of them first. She disappears and I am left dealing with 2 upset little kids. She said she understood.

Maybe it was being needy, but I said I think after 19 years I deserve some answers. I am left with all these questions. I asked how she felt about all she has done to me and our family, which she said bad. (not sure if she really appreciates this though) I told her I didn't deserve any of this, that I know I am a good person and not the person she portrays me as to justify her actions. I deserve someone better than her. At one point she said I am a great father, and she loves me as a person but she is not in love with me and can't feel something that isn't there. I asked if she ever was, which she said yes. Then I asked her about her saying she loved me and all the plans and memories, she said she was "trying". Told her trying is communicating, caring, loving, turning to your spouse to have your emotional needs met and not someone else. If when she first felt this way we talked about it and worked maybe it would be a different outcome. But having your emotional needs met by other people destroys marriages.

She sent me a text later saying I was right and did not deserve this but she cant pretend to feel something that is not there. She has pretended for too long, but she went about it the wrong way (NO KIDDING). 

Last night we talked to our oldest. He was not surprised. Like I have been seeing, he is smart and sees the signs. I had told my wife she was to lead the discussion since this is her doing. All she said was we both love you and it is not your fault. Then she said we can still do things together, do things as a family. Then she says "right?" to me. What the heck!! Delusional! 

I was left explaining how much we both love him, the three boys are the best things that have happened to us and we wouldn't trade them for the world. Told him that we both agreed to stay in town, but would have separate residences, talked about the timeline, how important it is to talk whether it is family, friends, teachers, whoever. Told him we will be having joint custody. He is at the age where I think he can stay at both houses at his will. The little kids have to be worked out.

He stayed in his room the rest of the night. My wife went to work at 11 last night, and I went up to talk to him privately. I said you know how much I put into honesty, trust, integrity. You can always come to me with anything and I will not lie to you. You are practically an adult now. I really wanted to tell him the full story, but I think he has an idea already. Maybe one day he will ask, or hear from someone else. We then went downstairs and watched a soccer game together, which was nice. Didn't want him hibernating by himself.

I did bring up the idea of "nesting" while we are try to sell the house. Whoever is taking care of the kids at the time will stay in the house. The other would stay elsewhere (me at my mom's, her at her parents or her boyfriend(s)-didn't actually say that part). She didn't say too much. I just said we should look into it but I didn't know if it could work. But I do not want to live like this indefinitely while we try to sell.

This has been so trying. Feel like I've been dealing with everything myself while she is in la-la land.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Troop said:


> Broke the news to my dad. He was upset but he is not asupportive person. Unfortunately my family is not like that. I have to rely on friends.
> 
> Yesterday morning I sat down and tried to have another conversation with her. Asked her if she realizes that she is forgetting about our 3 kids, that we need to take care of them first. She disappears and I am left dealing with 2 upset little kids. She said she understood.
> 
> ...


I feel for you Troop, you have done everything you could up to this point, you have acted like an adult, a responsable one. You can't force someone to feel things they don't, and the mother of your kids let it all die and turn to someone else.

I hope for the life of me i will one day understand how someone with children in a M lets love die and doesn't do or say anything and just wakes up one day ans sayd "I just don't love you anymore", well why didn't you say or do anything while you were watching it die, you have a ****ing responsability to your kids to at least DO something., Maybe in their heads they DID say something or they DID try something by just being physically there,

You be strong Troop, be a strong role model for your kids, they need you so don't think for a minute that it won't be fine, it will.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Wow! this whole scenario reminds me so much of when my marriage finally tanked. Forgetting about the children, selfishly perusing a dream. All the while leaving others to deal with reality. Save all the texts and emails in safe places with multiple copies.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Yeah, she is in la-la land. She still wants everything, she wants her OM, and her family and it seems like her mind/heart has realized that she is not entitled to both. When she does wake up it will hurt, although not everybody wakes up, so be prepared.

You did very well with your son. I have daughters who have always been pretty verbal so I'm not sure how boys react in these situations. I think the fact that he came down to watch the game is a good sign. And I really like the part where you told him he is virtually an adult and you will treat him as such. Nesting is probably the easiest on the younger kids until the house is sold, but it is clearly more stressful on the parents. Make an agreement that neither you or she will allow paramours in the house during the nesting period, that would really confuse the kids. Its also a good idea to have some agreement about sharing the expenses of the household. I've seen some exiting spouses really take financial advantage of the situation.

You sound strong Troop. I am sorry you have to be.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Troop, I am so sorry you are going through all this.

I've just read the whole thread. I am in the same boat. If I told my story (again) here, it would very much mirror yours, except that we have a 13-year-old son and have been married for 25 years. I found out about his affair which had been going on since September in February, because she basically told me (she was unhappy that the divorce he must have promised her wasn't moving along as quickly as she expected).

Like your STBX, mine watched the ship going down for two years and said nothing about how unhappy he was. Also like her, he has put off starting the D process and telling our son. He has been living in the house since D-Day because the rental property we own still has renters in it until May 1, when he plans to move. He wanted to wait to tell our son until he finished his school year, which wouldn't be until June - he originally wasn't going to move until then - but I've pushed it up to this weekend because he'll finish state testing today and because I think he has a right to know he's leaving in a couple of weeks and to have a little time to get used to that idea.

Also like your STBX, mine is delusional. He plans to start an open relationship with the OW as soon as he moves out, yet he thinks "very little will change between us" when he does that. We haven't been intimate in the last year, but we had been getting along well on all other fronts in the months leading up to his affair, and had even talked about the slow-down in our sex life, which he had said was "no big deal" and "nothing to worry about." He seems to think we will still be friends, and he'll come over to the house our son and I will stay in every day to be there when he gets home from school and help him with homework.

Like you, continuing to live in the same house with him for the last two months has been heart-wrenching and, honestly, damaging.

You handled telling your oldest beautifully. I commend you for taking the high road about your wife's cheating. We will be telling our son about the OW. My STBX has evolved over time to realize that he needs to tell him the truth he should have respected me enough to tell me. I'm giving him a gift by not having already told him myself, and by not planning to tell him all the dirty details. He's agreed to admit he met someone months ago who he now wants to be with, that he didn't tell me the truth about it when it first started and that was very wrong, and that's why I've been upset off and on for the last two months (he's told me our son has asked him a couple times, "What's going on with Mom? She seems kind of sad sometimes lately", to which he's of course lied and said I've had some pressing deadlines or stress at work).

I plan to follow your model and say to him tonight that while his Dad and I are no longer happy in our marriage and can't be together any longer, I love him more than anything in this world, I'm so proud of the great kid he is, and that even though we failed each other in our marriage, we got him out of it, so I would do it all again to have him here.

Like your son, I think he knows something like this is going on - he is a very observant, intuitive, and empathetic boy.

My STBX has not lived through his parents' divorce like I have and has no idea how much our son is going to resent him, no matter how much we try to sugar-coat this and no matter how good of a Dad he thinks he's continuing to be to him. I've tried to prepare him for this, but in his delusional state, he keeps going back to how nothing is really going to change, except that he will be sleeping in a different house. Maybe that will be his Karma. He got to prepare himself for all this for a year before he told me anything. I've been preparing for his absence for two months, now, and for how very much I *know* things are going to change. He'll be blindsided by it. And then I'll get to use the line on him he used on me when I first found out about the affair: "Well, you should have seen this coming."

Please keep us posted on how you and your kids are doing. My heart breaks for all of you. But you're obviously a thoughtful, caring man and father, and your kids are learning from *your* example, so they're going to grow up to be similarly thoughtful and caring, in spite of all this.

Sorry, again, to hear of someone going through such similar stuff as I am. It's one thing I really wish I were alone in, and it makes me sad that it happens to so many others. I hope you have a peaceful weekend.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Although we all can understand your need to confront her over her betrayal, eliciting a "yes-I-have-done-wrong" admission gets you nowhere. She may even feel that she has not made things right by coming clean.

To save yourself pain cease all communication that is not about your sons and the divorce. Do not be her friend. That doesn't mean that you are rude or act like a jerk, just do not be there for her. She should count on zero assurance and affirmation.

Nesting is possible. Will she abuse you in that situation?

Also, selling the family home is another reminder of what she is destroying.

Maybe you want a fresh start?

Letting her keep the family home cheats your children by making you the parent who deserts.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Letting her keep the family home cheats your children by making you the parent who deserts.


This is so very true. She betrayed you; *she* is turning *her* back on you and your family and destroying the life you built together that you were willing to try to save. She must be the one who leaves. It's the only way.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

They are selling the family home. Neither is keeping it.



Troop said:


> I did bring up the idea of "nesting" while we are try to sell the house. Whoever is taking care of the kids at the time will stay in the house. The other would stay elsewhere (me at my mom's, her at her parents or her boyfriend(s)-didn't actually say that part). She didn't say too much. I just said we should look into it but I didn't know if it could work. But I do not want to live like this indefinitely while we try to sell.


That is an *awesome* idea! Be sure to bring it up at the mediation appt.

Obviously it's only temporary till you sell but it will be so much less stressful not to be in the same house with her IMO.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Blonde said:


> They are selling the family home. Neither is keeping it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is exactly what I was thinking. I cannot imagine living in the same house as her until we sell. She was surprised and looked shocked when I mentioned it. Maybe reality is setting in that she will not always be able to be with the kids. I said I don't want to live like this, do you? Which she said no.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> This is so very true. She betrayed you; *she* is turning *her* back on you and your family and destroying the life you built together that you were willing to try to save. She must be the one who leaves. It's the only way.





Nomorebeans said:


> Troop, I am so sorry you are going through all this.
> 
> I've just read the whole thread. I am in the same boat. If I told my story (again) here, it would very much mirror yours, except that we have a 13-year-old son and have been married for 25 years. I found out about his affair which had been going on since September in February, because she basically told me (she was unhappy that the divorce he must have promised her wasn't moving along as quickly as she expected).


Yes, it is sad to hear of others in the same boat. I feel like I have been bearing the weight of all this myself, and it is not even what I wanted. However, I am the only one acting responsibly. It is just so draining. I found that I was being a little short with the little ones today and had to check myself. I got the oldest to come out of his room and interact a little bit. I told him it's OK to spend some time alone but he also needs to be around people, not to shut himself down. I think he gets that. 

It does feel good to be the one trying to help him through this horrible time. Typically it has been my W, but not now.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Troop said:


> Yes, it is sad to hear of others in the same boat. I feel like I have been bearing the weight of all this myself, and it is not even what I wanted. However, I am the only one acting responsibly. It is just so draining. I found that I was being a little short with the little ones today and had to check myself. I got the oldest to come out of his room and interact a little bit. I told him it's OK to spend some time alone but he also needs to be around people, not to shut himself down. I think he gets that.
> 
> It does feel good to be the one trying to help him through this horrible time. Typically it has been my W, but not now.


I hadn't thought about the part on the house. yeah, why should she get to keep the house since she's the one that wants out of the M and is the one with the affair.

Screw her. I feel sorry for your kids, but D comes with consequences, even with the affair you wanted to give your M another chance, she didn't, now, selling the house is a reminder like Longwalk said of another thing she's destroying. Selfish, selfish woman.

Let reality hit her where it hurts.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

First i want to thank all for the support. All along I have questioned if I have made the right decisions in how I have handled this difficult situation. At first I was concerned with doing the right thing to save my marriage. When I FINALLY realized this was hopeless I wanted to do the right thing for my sons. I always have self-doubt, so it feels awesome to get validation from this board that I am doing the right thing. 

I checked in with my oldest this morning and he said he was doing OK. Made him lunch and told him it was OK to spend some time alone but I thought he also needed to be with people. He came downstairs and hung out until his baseball game. 

My W showed up in the 3rd inning (she worked last night and again tonight so she was sleeping), said hi to the little ones, and sat down. Never asked how game was, or how our son was doing today. That upset me. She got up to leave a little while later and I walked with her. Asked why she didn't ask about our son and she said she was going to call him later. I said I thought she would want to ask me, and that we need to be able to communicate about our kids. I told her how he was today, that some friends reached out to him last night, and I had informed his coach. I also said I would contact his guidance counselor because my guess is she would not address it, just like she has avoided everything so far. Tried to tell her we need to put aside our issues and work together for the good of our kids. That I'm trying to keep to her informed of what's going on with our son. We need to be able to talk, to go to a game and say what's the score, how's he doing. 

Since I was upset about her seeming lack concern I said something about how she has been dropping the ball and not focused on the kids, preoccupied with "other" things. She got upset that I was saying something about this and said it was hard to work nights and take care of a kid. Problem is when she was supposed to be sleeping she was texting this guy. So...of course she can't function properly. I kind of felt bad, but she needs to own it. She has always been the best mother except for this situation. 

Hopefully tomorrow will be better.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I wouldn't count on it....until this new guy is out off the picture...her focus will always be on him and nothing else.

The point here is don't get your hopes up!

Work on the the things you can control cuz as long as the affair continues she is no were near owning up to a dam thing.

She is no longer the same mother her boys know and the sooner you hold her to that and stop having expectations of this "mother" that you all once knew the sooner you all can let go and move on.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Were in the hell is the 180?

You keep trying to keep her in the loop....maybe it"s time you left her in the dark...maybe it's time she was left in the dark for once?

You have yet to give her a taste of her new reality as long as you include her in the day to day life of a family that once was.

It's time to change that and then maybe she will start to think twice in what she is losing instead of faking what she she still thinks she still has...a family unit!

It's sad that you kids have to pay that price but at the end of the day it was her doing and yet you keep trying to include her in a family unit she gave up on!

In short you are making it to easy for her ( I get it, you are thinking of the kids) it's time to start making this affair as inconvenent and uncomfortable as possible to continue.

Stop making this comfortable for her by including her in the family she is giving up. It just might make her scond guess her choices.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

A lot of spouses won't dare pull this 1 AM crap if they were going thru a hard core divorce and custody was on the line.

Yours on the other hand does seem to give a shyt cuz she knows she doesn't have to answer to a judge when it comes to her current parenting behavior.

Just saying!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Troop,
Your STBXW is 100% responsible for her relationship with the kids. It is not your place to protect her from the consequences of her actions, or to invite her to participate in your children's lives. What's that old saying? Parent is a verb and a noun. Doing the 180 is really hard, it feels unnatural. But you need it. 

Given that your schedules are sort of opposite, and given her cheater fog, consider an on-line journal to allow both of you to keep up with the kids. Take a look at ourfamilywizard.com. This allows both parties to access a calendar and to put in suggestions and notes. You can put school activities, games, doctor appointments and also court dates or meetings. If she wants to check on the kids, she can go there. It can also give a contemporaneous record of who does what for the kids-something a court would like to see if custody is ever disputed. 

When my ex left, I gave him the emails and websites for schools, teams, etc. Then I stopped giving him verbal reports about the kids. One of the few times he's visited he asked to see a report card. I informed him that the schools stopped sending home report cards several years ago and its all online. That was why I gave him all the website information. Of course he never bothered to check. That would take effort on his part. My role as his secretary was over.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I agree that you should lay off the communicating with her. For one thing, it's too soon to really expect that you guys are going to instantly fall into a perfect co-parenting relationship. Would be nice, but it's an adjustment, so it is probably not likely.

I've never heard of that ourfamilywizard site (just checked it out, looks good), but we share a google calendar with the kids' info. on it.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Had a great day with my boys today. We had a busy day together. My oldest went to his girlfriends in the evening, then when he got home we hung out and watched tv together. Trying to be there for him as much as possible. 

Barely spoke to my W today. Said bye when we left and I said I thought she was working tonight. I made a mistake on her days and she kind of rudely let me know. I calmly said I made a mistake and walked away. 

Felt great most of the day and did not think about "us" until the afternoon. Got a bit down, especially seeing couples with their kids knowing our family will not be like that again. I pushed those thoughts out of my mind as best as possible. Strangely I have never been a facebook person but I find I am now posting pictures of the boys. It actually feels good. Capturing moments is important to me. 

I will try to limit interaction with my W as much as possible, but when I do have to I will be as neutral or business like as possible. 

Unfortunately I am leaving for a business trip tomorrow and won't be home until late Thursday night. It is going to be extremely difficult to be away from the kids and have no updates during the day on what they are doing. So tough. I'll talk to them at night though. I just don't want to lose the bond that has been increasing with my oldest. Also, it's strange but the past 4-5 days the 4 and 6 year olds have been very affectionate towards me. We haven't told them anything, but their actions make me wonder if subliminally they know something.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Do you text your oldest? This is a great time to increase frequency if, you do? Things like a quick "thinking of you" first thing in the morning can make more of a difference than you might believe. Ah, and teens don't always respond, but they always read.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Yes, I do. Our communication has improved through this I think. I reminded him again he can talk or text me anytime, that the last thing I want to do is go out of town but the most important thjng to me is him and his brothers. I asked if he knew why this all happened and he said he did. Said anything he needs to talk....I am here for him. 

My W is being a royal b*^*h but I am not engaging. Staying above all of that. Seems like she is being passive aggressive. 

Going to be very difficult not seeing the kids till Friday but we will FaceTime at night.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Sunday morning I got an unexpected call from a guy that I know through one of my close friends. My friend had told him about my situation and he wanted to reach out to me. He went through something similar years ago, although he was not married as long and did not have kids. I good to hear that we have/had similar feelings and did some of the same things. It is nice to know people care.

That night I texted my oldest to check how he is doing. He said ok, and then asked how I was doing! I told him it has been tough but I will survive, and he responded that "mom doesn't seem phased." We know why. I shared with him a little about how I have been doing, and how I go to therapy. We talked about the past, and how we want our relationship to improve. No talk about the divorce or my wife, just about us. I told him if any good comes of this, I hope that he and I will become closer which he agreed. The conversation was so moving and I felt so loved by him.

I talked to the school about the situation so they are aware. I debated about forwarding the emails to my W, but then thought why should I. She seems so out of touch with all of this, living in fantasy world. This morning I sent her a text just saying the school knows and she said OK. I will admit her response was a little trigger. There is always a little part that thinks she will realize what she has done. But I am realizing I would not want to be in that type of relationship anymore. It's just that the unknown is scary. 

My oldest and I also talked about how the 4 and 6 year old are acting different. The past week they can't stop hugging and kissing me, way more than usual. He said he has noticed a difference also. Maybe we think we hide things from them, but somehow they can tell.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Troop said:


> Sunday morning I got an unexpected call from a guy that I know through one of my close friends. My friend had told him about my situation and he wanted to reach out to me. He went through something similar years ago, although he was not married as long and did not have kids. I good to hear that we have/had similar feelings and did some of the same things. It is nice to know people care.
> 
> That night I texted my oldest to check how he is doing. He said ok, and then asked how I was doing! I told him it has been tough but I will survive, and he responded that "mom doesn't seem phased." We know why. I shared with him a little about how I have been doing, and how I go to therapy. We talked about the past, and how we want our relationship to improve. No talk about the divorce or my wife, just about us. I told him if any good comes of this, I hope that he and I will become closer which he agreed. The conversation was so moving and I felt so loved by him.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad that you growing closer to your kids but sorry to read about your story. Many of us on TAM have similar experiences and seem comforted that were not alone in our misery and plus we get support from others who are on the other side of these life changing events. You probably want to let your younger children know in a language they can understand what's happening. Might even get the counselor for advice how to communicate this with them. You both should have this discussion with them.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

This is so hard to see, but you are doing well.
Keep moving forward, she will probably realize one day that she f-up. 
Hopefully you will have fully moved on by then, that would be a blessing rather then trying to sort it out now.

Take care.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Troop said:


> Sunday morning I got an unexpected call from a guy that I know through one of my close friends. My friend had told him about my situation and he wanted to reach out to me. He went through something similar years ago, although he was not married as long and did not have kids. I good to hear that we have/had similar feelings and did some of the same things. It is nice to know people care.
> 
> That night I texted my oldest to check how he is doing. He said ok, and then asked how I was doing! I told him it has been tough but I will survive, and he responded that "mom doesn't seem phased." We know why. I shared with him a little about how I have been doing, and how I go to therapy. We talked about the past, and how we want our relationship to improve. No talk about the divorce or my wife, just about us. I told him if any good comes of this, I hope that he and I will become closer which he agreed. The conversation was so moving and I felt so loved by him.
> 
> ...


Don't hold your breath waiting for her epiphany. I'm going on three years since Dday and my ex remains unapologetic and unremorseful. Not all WS behave this way. I just don't want you to expect an awakening.

But you know what? There is no question in my mind that my kids are happier kids today than they were three years ago. It is exhausting to be a single parent. You just do what needs to be done.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Don't hold your breath waiting for her epiphany. I'm going on three years since Dday and my ex remains unapologetic and unremorseful. Not all WS behave this way. I just don't want you to expect an awakening.
> 
> But you know what? There is no question in my mind that my kids are happier kids today than they were three years ago. It is exhausting to be a single parent. You just do what needs to be done.


I am sure she will be the same as your experience. She has never been one to admit or apologize for any mistakes. Her apologies were rare. I do not expect anything from her, and I am maybe I am starting to realize it wouldn't really make a difference. It will not change the emotions and pain I am going through.

What is really troubling is that she has not spoken to my oldest about any of this. Hasn't checked to see how he is doing. Instead he said she acts like normal. She is in her own little world right now. I told him to just remember that she does love him. Hurts to see your child in pain. He talked a little to me last night about how he's feeling. I can tell he is angry at her, or as he said "disgusted" with her. Said he feels like she has betrayed the whole family. What do you say to that? I just listen and encourage him to talk. I do not bash her even though I would love to. 

I'm getting more used to not talking to her at all. It is very lonely not sharing your day with your spouse, but I am surviving. I'm reaching out to friends, but sometimes I wonder if it gets to be too much for them. Why do they want to deal or hear about my problems. I know that's what friends are for, so I just have to remember that.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

You are holding on Troop and doing a great job as parent. Remember we arr all here for each other. So if you need to vent it out go ahead.

A shame really how your X is behaving, it shouldnt have to be lkke these specially with kids involved.


Stay the course.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

So today's the day we meet with the mediator. I asked my W yesterday if we were going to talk at all about how we want this to go before the meeting and she said no, that is the mediator's job. I said I thought she would be guiding us and making sure things were fair, but it was up to us to decide how things would be split, work out custody, etc. So....I came up with a list of how I want this to go and what I want. 

Most important thing I think for me mentally is to do the nesting concept until we sell the house. The past couple days have been very difficult for me, and I am in a funk. She has yet to tell her parents anything. Our son told the W's brother, and I guess he said if the W doesn't tell the full story to her parents he will. The inlaws invited me and the boys over for dinner last night to celebrate my FIL's birthday. My W wasn't going since she was working. It was so uncomfortable being there. I know some say I should tell them, but for once I want her to own up to what she has done. After they know, I will tell them the real story. And that this was decided a month ago and she choose not to tell them.

I know I'll get through this, but it is so difficult right now. It's hard just to keep moving at times. But when I get down I try to tell myself to look at all the hurt and pain she has caused. It's a shame that after 20 years together I have zero respect for her.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

One thing to keep in mind, Troop. If you wait for her to tell her family, then you will likely come out of her version as the bad guy and then you have to spend your time and energy doing damage control. That's why its best to get your story out front. And it might be her parents, but they will be your kids grandparents and they will be part of your life. You also have the advantage that they will put some pressure on her to behave appropriately, if nothing else, for their grandchildren. Just something to consider.

I say that because my ex still has not come clean. He never admitted any wrongdoing, any infidelity. All he told his siblings (his parents died a few years ago) was that he was unhappy and we were divorcing. Some have asked me and I told them, others have said they don't want to know, some interpreted his vague statements as a criticism of me and won't speak to me. Its family, whatcha gonna do.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

IME WS family is going to support WS and she will need that support if she ever wakes up and realizes the damage she has caused and feels bad. 

I would tread carefully about how and how much you tell them. I did tell them he cheated but when they got defensive of him I told them "I'm not going to defend myself and I'm not going to tell you the WHOLE story because he may need your support at the end of the day and I'm afraid if you heard it all you might think badly of him"

Course, I up and fled the state to get a nice safe 500 miles between me and him and between the children and him. I am unlikely to see STBX inlaws ever again except very briefly during weddings. Sounds like you will have more ongoing contact with yours. Tread carefully.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Blonde said:


> IME WS family is going to support WS and she will need that support if she ever wakes up and realizes the damage she has caused and feels bad.
> 
> I would tread carefully about how and how much you tell them. I did tell them he cheated but when they got defensive of him I told them "I'm not going to defend myself and I'm not going to tell you the WHOLE story because he may need your support at the end of the day and I'm afraid if you heard it all you might think badly of him"
> 
> Course, I up and fled the state to get a nice safe 500 miles between me and him and between the children and him. I am unlikely to see STBX inlaws ever again except very briefly during weddings. Sounds like you will have more ongoing contact with yours. Tread carefully.


Yes, they will be in my life for quite awhile. They attend all of the boys sporting events, so there will always be some interaction. I plan to tell them an overview of what my W did. I respect and love them and they have always been there for us. I do not want her to paint me in a false light, regardless of what they think afterwards. My oldest told one of my BIL's, and apparently he is going to say something to the inlaws at some point. My oldest said they deserve to know the morals of their daughter and he is disgusted with her....Couldn't believe it when he said that. He is really upset. 

Personally, I don't care if her parents think badly of her or if she needs support later. She made her bed, she can lie in it. I will not give them all the details though. However, I do not want my sons to have hate or dislike her. She is their mother and I don't want them resenting or disliking her. My counselor says they could then think there is something wrong with them also since they are part of her.

Kind of nervous about how it will go with the mediator. My wife made the appointment and I asked if we needed to bring anything (taxes, W-2's, bills, etc) and she said no. This is the initial consultation so maybe it is just an introduction. I have my list made. Wonder if the W will say anything or how prepared she is.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

It was kind of surreal sitting in the lawyers office yesterday. After 19 years it has come to this. The only thing the she did was explain the mediation process. It appears my W does not want to have any discussions outside of the mediators office. I tried to explain I thought we could come up with some rough agreements, or at least discuss how we want things to go, and work on them/finalize in the office but apparently not. I think she is not capable of doing any of this on her own.

Received a call from another guy I know through my best friend. His wife walked out on him and he had no idea why. Eventually he found out she was having an affair. We talked about his experience, and what I'm going through. It means so much to have others reach out and talk about what they went through.

I saw one of my W's brothers Sunday. My son had told him what happened and he said to give him a call to go out for a beer. Think I'll do that next week (I'm going out of town Thursday) and give him the full story. 

Hopefully today is a little better than the past few.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

It is a bitter pill to have a mediator/lawyer/judge tell you what you get to keep after a twenty year marriage.

But once the process is complete, your life can and will be better than it is now. It does get better.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

So we met with the mediator the other day. I went prepared, but all she did was discuss the process if we choose to use her. I was disappointed because I thought we were getting it started at that point. Guess it was good to hear the cost, etc though. Seems kind of high priced and am thinking of talking to another person, but yet I just want to begin and get it over with.

That day and the day before were very rough. I was really down in the dumps, feeling depressed about everything. I have doing the 180 with the W. Basically do not talk to her at all. My oldest and I went to a Supercross race this past weekend. When she asked how it was, I just said good. If she texts me something I do not respond for at least 1 hour. I no longer am at her beck and call.

She has yet to ask our oldest how he is doing. That really upsets me. I guess it is because she cannot face what she has done. I only care because of him. He said last night he pretty much does not talk to her anymore. 

I had a better day yesterday. Trying not to live in the past thinking about what has been lost. Need to focus on the now and the future. My therapist said when I find myself thinking of the loss, try to shift my thoughts to what I am grateful and have grattitude for, such as all the people that have reached out to me to offer support. He told me that it is probably the most support he has seen someone receive going through a divorce. I don't think he would just say that, but due to self-esteem issues I have a hard time accepting that but I am working on it.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Troop said:


> I had a better day yesterday. Trying not to live in the past thinking about what has been lost. Need to focus on the now and the future. My therapist said when I find myself thinking of the loss, try to shift my thoughts to what I am grateful and have grattitude for, such as all the people that have reached out to me to offer support. He told me that it is probably the most support he has seen someone receive going through a divorce. I don't think he would just say that, but due to self-esteem issues I have a hard time accepting that but I am working on it.


I don't believe your therapist would just say something like that either. If he/she only wanted to prop you up it would have been some vague statement like "you have a good support system"
You are going through the worst of it now.
And you're doing a great job.
Keep talking with your son. Mom might come around, or she might just rug-sweep the entire thing and never speak directly to your son about it. Either way, he will always know he has you.
What is he going to be doing this summer?


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> I don't believe your therapist would just say something like that either. If he/she only wanted to prop you up it would have been some vague statement like "you have a good support system"
> You are going through the worst of it now.
> And you're doing a great job.
> Keep talking with your son. Mom might come around, or she might just rug-sweep the entire thing and never speak directly to your son about it. Either way, he will always know he has you.
> What is he going to be doing this summer?


Pluto, 
Thank you for the supportive words. Expressing myself on TAM is another way that helps me cope with this situation.

The oldest will be busy with soccer summer soccer leagues. My inlaws do a lot of camping, and they will be asking to have the boys join them. Might be difficult because normally they would spend time with them camping. Don't know how that will be handled.

Hopefully my FIL goes to our son's baseball game today. I plan on talking to him about what is going on. My W has yet to say anything to her parents. Just like our oldest, I would imagine she is embarrassed about her actions and what she has done. Also, she has always avoided dealing with her problems.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

So today is our 10 year anniversary. We should have been in Mexico right now. It actually is not bothering me like I thought it might. If anything, I am grateful that things ended when they did and money was not wasted. I woke up this morning and instead of having bad memories of this day, I thought about our oldest son. He was 7 years old when we got married in Turks and Caicos (destination wedding). My thoughts were of how handsome he was in his tux, and of the speech he made (with the help from his uncle). I wrote him a note about this and will give it to him later.

We spoke the other day and I can tell he is having a hard time. He found out who the guy was and checked out his FB page. Even sent a friend request so that the guy would know that my son knows. He cancelled it after though. Apparently one time when him and the young boys were facetiming me on the W's phone the POSOM sent her messages that my oldest saw. Way to go! Put our son in a situation to see that crap. Really upsetting. Once again he said she is disgusting to him, pretends nothing is going on, and called her a f***g wh**e! Wow!!!! I had to take a few moments to think about what to say to him. Ended up telling him I never have said anything bad about her and wouldn't start. Reminded him that she does love him but he head is somewhere else and she won't deal with what she has done.

My W is also starting to play games with the little boys. I came home from a work trip and the following day she was trying to make plans to do something with them. I told her that wasn't right since I had not seen them. Response was I choose to go away. Hello....it was work, and she also told me she continuing to travel (a few days every other month) would not be an issue and she wouldn't be a Dbag about it. Well guess what, obviously she is. She also has been pretending I do not exist around them. Childish games. 

Last Friday and Saturday were bad while I was away, but I came out of it and am doing better now. Saw my PCP yesterday and I feel better. Found out yesterday an acquaintance is going through a very similar situation. His wife just told him she wants a divorce. Apparently she had a PA a couple years ago and is now having an EA. To top it off, I work with her and the guy she is having the EA with. I got this acquaintance's number and gave him a call to talk about our situations. A couple years ago I would have thought about calling but most likely would not have followed through. Now....I know how important it is to have that support and wanted to reach out to him right away.

Hopefully the rest of today goes OK. It kind of feels like just another day. When I look at my W now I am disgusted with her just as my son is. The person I always thought was the most beautiful person in the world is now the dirtiest in my eyes. I am going to do a meditation class today and also see my therapist. All the boys have baseball today, and afterwards I am going to take them to dinner to celebrate Cinco de Mayo. It will be a boys dinner. Hopefully she does not try to pull some s**t.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Did you find a cheaper mediator?


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Did you find a cheaper mediator?


I didn't feel like waiting to get this going, or talking to the W about seeing someone else. She would be difficult about it, so I decided not to bother. I just want to get it over with.

I'm actually feeling really good today!!! Best in a long time.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

OP, 

I was married 28 yrs, and had a son just turning 21 when my marriage fell apart. 

It will be 4 years this May, and I can say I am finally coming around to finding some peace. 

It's really tough separting after such a long time. Be grateful hopefully, that you arent being thrown into limbo by her. 

Your thearpist is so correct in the idea of changing your thoughts when sad/bad thoughts surface. So much easier said than done, but not impossible. 

Stupid little thing such as changing all passwords to a "happy saying."
works wonders too, bc you may have to repete it a couple times a day. 

If this where to suddenly stop, and wife changed her mind, wanted back to the marriage, no matter what, its a new marriage and will have its own new issues to deal with. 

Being in a LTR, as you have too, which seemed to us to be going aok, then thrown out into the world of marriages that arent aok, or joining the club of infidelity that we never thought possible, surely throws ones through a loop to say the least. Nothing that was, will be the same again once the bell has runk. 

Sorry you are here, maybe not, as I see youre having a good day! Yeah!!!


~sammy


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Happy Cinco de Mayo!

I hope you and the boys have a great time at dinner.
And bravo to you for meditation. There were times the first year that was the only time during the day I could get the pain to stop.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Happy Cinco de Mayo!
> 
> I hope you and the boys have a great time at dinner.
> And bravo to you for meditation. There were times the first year that was the only time during the day I could get the pain to stop.


Dinner was good. My best friend switched his work night so he could hang out also. Another true friend. The W said she was going out with the girls from work since I was taking the boys out. Yeah...sure...probably celebrating our 10 years with the POSOM. 

Although most of the morning was good, at one point I went on my friends list on FB to find someone and saw she was active when she should be picking our son up at school. My mind went to she was talking to the POSOM and I triggered. Went completely negative and got real upset and dark. Luckily the meditation helped! I seemed to help and I need to stick with it. Also, my son gave me a great response to the note I sent him that morning. 

I took today off from work to try to catch up on some other work I do for a part-time job from home. I have neglected it for 2 months. Just cannot focus on anything when I'm at home, except for the kids and the situation. Hopefully I can get some done.

Spent some time reflecting with my friend last night on the W and how we got to where we are. Really can't understand it. It is still too painful, although yesterday morning I felt I had a small spurt of acceptance, that this is the best and we should not be together. Of course it was only a moment. I am hoping for more of those.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

So I just found out she wants to stay in our house. That means she wants me to pay even though we make about the same and custody will be about equal. WTF! She has already screwed me over by cheating, lying, and leaving. Now she is trying this. I have been trying to do things fairly...obviously she is not. I should be the one trying to screw her over, but I am still taking the high road and do what's right...


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## Joe75 (Oct 12, 2013)

Hi Troop

It seems like to me that your wife already knows what she wants out of this divorce and she is not discussing this with you for tactical reasons. The case in point is the issue of selling of the house. It appears that your wife’s intent was always for her to get the house with the tie-in to primary custody. Thus, “So I just found out she wants to stay in our house. That means she wants me to pay …” strongly indicates that she is steps ahead of you in regards to the divorce process. You need to readjust this imbalance so that she begins to react to your decisive courses of action.

The first step, as you been previously advised, is for you to cease using you mother’s boss as your attorney – he is not a divorce lawyer. Law is a complex matter and; thus, this is why lawyers specialize in different aspects of the law. One would never use a contract lawyer for a criminal matter; therefore, why use an ill-suited real estate lawyer to advise you on divorce law. You need the correct legal expertise in your corner.

Most divorce lawyers will give an initial free, or at a reduced rate, consult (usually one hour in length). It is prudent to initially interview several lawyers. Once selected, you will have a lawyer, with the required know-how, who can advise you, as required, during the mediation process including advising on choice of a mediator. In addition, you will be in position to proactively respond if the mediation process fails. One thing to keep in mind, it is quite possible that your wife has already received legal advice from a divorce lawyer. 

Troop, taking the “high road” does not preclude you from proactively pursuing, with expertise assistance, what you considered is best for you and more importantly what is best for your children. 

Regards

Joe75


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I agree with the above poster.

Get a lawyer who will defend you from being too nice.

Google and find a someone with good recommendations.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Most definitely get an attorney. Do not move out of the house. Time for you to clam up, like your wife, and not give anything away. She is already ahead of you on this, and has probably been working this angle for years. You need to catch up.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Joe75 said:


> Hi Troop
> 
> It seems like to me that your wife already knows what she wants out of this divorce and she is not discussing this with you for tactical reasons. The case in point is the issue of selling of the house. It appears that your wife’s intent was always for her to get the house with the tie-in to primary custody. Thus, “So I just found out she wants to stay in our house. That means she wants me to pay …” strongly indicates that she is steps ahead of you in regards to the divorce process. You need to readjust this imbalance so that she begins to react to your decisive courses of action.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response. The lawyer I have spoken to practices family law and does divorces, so I think I am comfortable with him but of course now you have me thinking. I spoke to him last night and he told me if our salary's are about the same and the custody is equal then it would not be financially possible for her to keep the house and for me to pay support. It would be an equal split. He said to bring a listing of all the household expenses to our meeting with the mediator, and the mediator will inform her it would not be possible.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

So if she wants to keep the house, how does she intend to buy you out, which is what she would have to do? You can get property in lieu of support (in some states), or cash support, but you don't get both. That's double-dipping.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

I honestly think she hasn't thought about any of this, or at least clearly. I think she has the POSOM and her wacked out friend putting things in her ear. I'm not going to worry about it until we start the actual process with the mediator next week. No sense stressing since I assume what she wants wont happen. It appears she doesn't want her life to change, just for me to go away. I am also going to insist on a no cohabitation clause for both of us. I don't want her moving the POS into any home with our boys.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Looked on her phone this morning with the intent of seeing if the POSOM and her are discussing the divorce and intentions. Instead I saw them talking about getting married, her sending naked pics, sexting, and found out she had at least our 4 year old around the guy again.

Surprisingly I am not hurt about her being physical with him or the pictures. I am disgusted. But I am hurt that she is involving our kids. They do not need to be around that situation while we are still married. I scheduled an appointment this afternoon with my therapist to see how I should handle the situation, besides telling her how inappropriate it is. She can go screw whoever she wants, but do not damage our children.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Troop said:


> Looked on her phone this morning with the intent of seeing if the POSOM and her are discussing the divorce and intentions. Instead I saw them talking about getting married, her sending naked pics, sexting, and found out she had at least our 4 year old around the guy again.
> 
> Surprisingly I am not hurt about her being physical with him or the pictures. I am disgusted. But I am hurt that she is involving our kids. They do not need to be around that situation while we are still married. I scheduled an appointment this afternoon with my therapist to see how I should handle the situation, besides telling her how inappropriate it is. She can go screw whoever she wants, but do not damage our children.


OMG! How horrible!
Her hormones are controlling her decisions right now but she's making very poor choices. One day she will realize what she lost ... her ego might not allow her to admit it to you, but she will.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> OMG! How horrible!
> Her hormones are controlling her decisions right now but she's making very poor choices. One day she will realize what she lost ... her ego might not allow her to admit it to you, but she will.


OP Speaks the truth. She is hip deep in mind altering chemicals at this point and this is all fun and games to her. She doesnt even realize how much pain she is causing to those around her.

Get her out of your life while the chemicals are still working and you may be able to get her to loosen up on joint holdings because she will do anything to be with him.

Revenge in this case will be served up to you in about 2-2.5 years. She will look up and realize she is starving from eating astroturf...

Sure it was greener...but it wasnt grass...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't know.

I agree that she's making the worst decision in the world, but I've seen too many parents screw-up their kids and just not care. I'm all for wanting Mom and Dad to be happy people, and I generally believe that a good parent needs to be a happy person. But I've seen too many WS, just not care about being good parents. 

There are good family therapists all around who can help the kids adjust. School counselors in kindergarten have helped the kids of some friends who were going through a nasty split.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

SamuraiJack said:


> OP Speaks the truth. She is hip deep in mind altering chemicals at this point and this is all fun and games to her. She doesnt even realize how much pain she is causing to those around her.
> 
> Get her out of your life while the chemicals are still working and you may be able to get her to loosen up on joint holdings because she will do anything to be with him.
> 
> ...


I agree she is so wrapped up in the high of the affair fog she cannot see what she is doing to her children. It just keeps getting crazier and crazier. Like something you see on Jerry Springer. My therapist had a good point...my life is not what's crazy, it is her's. 

While I just want her out of my life as much as possible, I still have moments where I wonder how things got to where they are...how things changed so quickly....wondering what our family life really was...all the plans for the future gone so quickly. Need to do more work to fully detach, but I imagine that takes more time.

My therapist was surprised I was not more hurt and pained by what I found on her phone yesterday. Maybe those feelings will pop up at a later time. Right now I am angry about how it affects the kids and I would say disgusted, repulsed, astonished by it all.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Did you save that stuff? I know there's no "grounds" anymore but if it does ever get nasty with a custody dispute, showing those pics and the fact that the young children had access to see that would be relevant to parenting fitness.

Hopefully the mediation will work out and duking it out in court won't be necessary, but , just in case....


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

Yes, I saved them and will use them if necessary. Hopefully when I bring up some of the points about cohabitation with her affair partner in mediation she will back off and some of her silly requests. I imagine it will be embarassing.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

The "Duke orders" don't seem to be as favored by the courts as much as they were a few years ago, so she can ask, but that's no guarantee she's going to get it. And with the age of the kids, its not as though they need to remain in this particular house to remain in a certain school. And this would require a financial entanglement for another 14 years. No way.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Troop said:


> I agree she is so wrapped up in the high of the affair fog she cannot see what she is doing to her children. It just keeps getting crazier and crazier. Like something you see on Jerry Springer. My therapist had a good point...my life is not what's crazy, it is her's.
> 
> While I just want her out of my life as much as possible, I still have moments where I wonder how things got to where they are...how things changed so quickly....wondering what our family life really was...all the plans for the future gone so quickly. Need to do more work to fully detach, but I imagine that takes more time.
> 
> My therapist was surprised I was not more hurt and pained by what I found on her phone yesterday. Maybe those feelings will pop up at a later time. Right now I am angry about how it affects the kids and I would say disgusted, repulsed, astonished by it all.


Sounds like you are to the point where you realize just how far out this whole situation is and want to protect the kids.

if you can keep detaching you will get to see the comedy in it...even screenwriters cant make this crap up.

Protect your kids and keep as far out of it as you can. IT will only make you crazy if you get any on you.


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## Troop (Mar 30, 2015)

SamuraiJack said:


> Sounds like you are to the point where you realize just how far out this whole situation is and want to protect the kids.
> 
> if you can keep detaching you will get to see the comedy in it...even screenwriters cant make this crap up.
> 
> Protect your kids and keep as far out of it as you can. IT will only make you crazy if you get any on you.


You are so right SJ. I have been saying to friends you only read about things like this, and I am living it. It just gets more and more ridiculous...which happened again today.

My oldest comes home from school. The W asks him why SHE feels like HE doesn't love HER. HELLO!!!! That is backwards. She should be asking why does he feel like she doesn't love him. He told her she has not asked how he is doing of if he wants to talk. (of course not cuz she would have to explain herself to him). She claimed she has, but asking how his baseball and soccer games does not count! He asked her how she could do what she's doing and she avoided it and then told him it was between mom and dad and did not concern him. HELLO...she made it concern him when he saw the texts from the POSOM on her phone when he was facetiming me, and when she told people this is because she was trapped and stuck for having him so young, and it was told to him. She caused it, but chooses not to see and admit this.

He texted me and told me about all this. When I came home I checked on him and he said he was ok. Later tonight I will sit down with him and talk to him when she is not around. Unfortunately I think she is kind of writing him off so she does not have to deal with her mistakes, and instead focuses on the 4 and 6 year old. She goes overboard with them now as far as attention, I assume as a way to compensate and try to make herself feel better.

Just gets better and better!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Your STBXWs actions could make your S17 get the rub of "he was a mistake" ...... be sure to stress she did

not mean that. You seem to be handling yourself well. She will do some very idiotic things... they always do.

Just shake your head, smile, and laugh. Do not move out of the marital home.

Have you given any thought to talking to posOM's wife/XW?

There is a chance he may kick her to the curb... you are aware she will come back to you

like a freight train. This will hurt, like he!!.... but once you see it for what it is.... it gets much easier.

If you get a chance..... check this thread out.... he had two small children too

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155905-20-years-smoke.html


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