# Am I nuts? Blind? or can patience finally pay off?



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I have been lurking around here on the forum since my first D-Day (yes there is more than one), and have decided that I want to seek your collective input. Ok, so this will be a kind of a long read. The short version is that my wife gives me the i love you but not in love with you speech, then things go downhill quick. She is very wishy washy, and wants to have her cake and eat it too. There's an EA, that turns into a PA, then she stops, then restarts it a few times. She wants me, then she doesn't, then she does...you get the idea. Anyway, I have been journaling since this all started, and decided I would share it here.

I thank you in advance for taking the time to come on this adventure with me. 

When you are done please share your thoughts, and feel free to be gentile...or not if I need a healthy e-slap in the face.. Im new at this (as many of us are)


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

*February*

5 February 2012 Sunday 9:30 PM
(Love)
How did I get here. Sitting at a bar, alone, drinking water and watching the superbowl. I haven't watched this in over 5 years and now I am. I should be with A, but I'm not. Life has a funny Way of sucker punching you right in the stomach when you least expect it. Over the last few years I have been growing my heart and the ability to cope with stress....this is different tho. I wasn't prepared for something like this. Its deep inside my core, like somebody close has died or something. I am trying as hard as I can to be supportive of her, and what/how She is working through her feelings. Oh I wish I could go back intime, to when things started to become difficult for her. I wish I did mort more to show her that she is appreciated, that she is beautiful,.and that I really can pull my own weight. I wish that she would look at me the way she used to when we were fresh in love. Habits that I have carried since I was a child have now cone back go haunt me. Sometimes I feel like I'm about to have a panic attack, my heart starts racing and my mind starts to fill me with dread. Part of me feels the way I used to feel when I would have a crush on a girl, and I knew I couldn't have her. back then I was not brave enough to put myself out there for fear of my hopes getting crushed. the feeling is the same, its just that now I can't seen to take no for an answer. I can't just hang up 11 years of my life. I am at least happy that she has not said that she is done for good, but sometimes I just wish she would just decide for good, for now. at least then I would know, and if she decided she didn't want me then I start the long lonely road out if this chapter in my life. I will wait for as long as it takes, but it is so hard to wait and not know how she is feeling.

-------------------------
6 February 2012 Monday 12:02 PM
hard to accept (Love)
I found out last night, after A came home very drunk that she wasn't wearing her wedding ring. I asked her about it today, and she said she has not been wearing it for a couple days now. I sat up for hours waiting for her to get home to make sure she got home safe, only to once again have my heart broken again. I thought I had felt the worst if it, but then this.... how much worse can it get.

she still hasn't officially said its over yet, but I can't help but feel like that news is right around the corner. I wish I knew what I could do to help her want to choose me. I just hope and pray that she gets whatever this is out of her system before its too late.

our second marriage counseling session is today at 4.
-------------------------
6 February 2012 Monday 12:38 PM
on a positive note (Home)
I have been keeping myself busy with housework. I have all the laundry done and put away. vacuumed, swept, and did dishes.
-------------------------
6 February 2012 Monday 1:42 PM
:-( (Love)
Today is the worst day of my life.
-------------------------
6 February 2012 Monday 6:09 PM
closure (Love)
our counseling appointment went well today. after the initial shock wore off I was able to start processing my emotions. I was also able to share some things with amanda about how I have been feeling lately. I have discovered that I think I saw this coming a while ago, but like amanda I never really brought it up for some of the same reasons.

scared of being alone.
scared of how the children will be affected.
logistical reasons regarding property, custody, etc.

pulling into holiday, I felt some sort of a sense of relief. I shared that with amanda and she said she felt the same way.

Amanda and I both agree that this whole transition will turn out for the better for both of us.

we both have agreed to stay as open as possible about how we are doing.
-------------------------
6 February 2012 Monday 7:57 PM
(Love)
So Amanda fell asleep on the couch. I gently covered her up with a blanket and turned the light out. Half asleep she called me babe....I really liked it, even if it was only a freudian slip.
-------------------------
6 February 2012 Monday 8:29 PM
something to work on (Love)
I really have to work on not being so curious all the time. Amanda is right, I don't need to know everything about what shes doing and who shes doing it with. I couldn't help it, and I found myself trolling her phone trying to see if there was something I wouldn't want to see. that makes no sense because at this point even if there was something, it is no longer my place to hold her accountable for her actions. as a matter of fact I would be wlling to bet that that character trait of being nosy and overbearing played a part in her getting to where she is at now.
-------------------------
6 February 2012 Monday 9:45 PM
letting it ride (Love)
I gave amanda a nice long back rub. then she asked if she could snuggle. It was nice. I'm not going go read into it too much, just going to let it ride
-------------------------
7 February 2012 Tuesday 9:23 AM
different but good (Love)
last night Amanda asked if she could sleep in the bed with me and snuggle. I said yes, we snuggled, and it was nice. At this point I still do not want to read into this stuff too deeply, because if I do I will drive myself nuts with the woulda shoulda couldas. I just want to let things take their own course and try to live for me.
-------------------------
7 February 2012 Tuesday 10:00 AM
great morning routine (Other)
Today, I got up, took a shower, brushed teeth, styled my hair, put in contacts, and had time to spare. I feel really good, I think I like my new routine.
-------------------------
7 February 2012 Tuesday 2:11 PM
still hanging on a bit. (Love)
Amanda said she is going to go to Moonshine for Wii golf with breanna. For some reason I am still trying to hold on to control or something because I immediately started coming up with what if's. It will take time to be 100% comfortable with her being 'single', and for me as well. The best thing I can do is communicate like we said we would to make this transition easier for both of us. Part of me is excited at the prospect of 'new' feelings. But there is still a big part of me that secretly wishes that our paths would bring us back together. I have to work on acceptance. 
-------------------------
7 February 2012 Tuesday 2:36 PM
Going out of town (Work)
So I am heading to ******* next week for training. I will leave Thursday 2/16 and return Saturday 2/18. I'm nervous about going for two reasons :

1. I worry that Amanda will go out with friends and have a banbysitter watch the kids while she is partying. Or bring someome home with her.... that prospect is still tough for me to accept...that there WILL (not might) be times when she has a man that she wants to invite over. I need to work through these feelings. Good to bring up at our next counseling appointment for sure.

2. That I will be, for the first time in 11 years, be alone away from home single and left to my own devices. I am not worried about drinking, but am scared about the idea of going home from somewhere with a woman;

what will that feel like?
Will I feel remorse?
Will it upset Amanda? 

I know she said that she would not be upset if she saw me out on a date but reality can often times be very different than our perception of it.....or maybe I just want her to be where she would get upset cause that would mean that she still has romantic feelings for me. 

I know that I am still at a point where, although i love Amanda and want her to be happy, I would still be upset knowing she is on a date and I wouldn't even need to see it happening in person.


I know that, for me, even though I have chosen to accept how Amanda feels, and will need to work on improving that acceptance as I know that will also help me with the on a date thing as a side effect.

Dan was right that the mind can trick you into feeling a certain way when the reality is different. I need to keep that concept in perspective. 
-------------------------
7 February 2012 Tuesday 5:59 PM
A good day today (Love)
today is one of the good ones.
-------------------------
8 February 2012 Wednesday 1:48 AM
long chat (Love)
had a long chat with Dan , I learned alot.
-------------------------
8 February 2012 Wednesday 8:54 AM
morning routine (Other)
I was able to repeat my new morning routine again this morning. I added a suggestion from Dan and told myself out loud that I am stronger than I give myself credit for and can do anything I put my mind to
-------------------------
8 February 2012 Wednesday 9:04 AM
told amanda how I feel (Love)
I hugged amanda goodbye. After that, I took both her hands in mine, told her to just listen. I looked her in the eye and told her that I believe in her, I believe in us, and will fight for her.


and now I wait....
-------------------------
8 February 2012 Wednesday 11:18 PM
clean house (Home)
I cleaned the entire first floor today. part of it was to impress Amanda, but another part did it because it just need to be cleaned.

-------------------------
8 February 2012 Wednesday 11:20 PM
Amandas opinion (Love)
Amanda was happy that the house was clean. We were taking about things and she said that she doesn't want to divorce but on the other hand she cannot help that she still doesn't feel a romantic connection with me. I know that this can't happen over night, so for now I am just not making expectations, just trying to do what feels good to me...for me.
-------------------------
9 February 2012 Thursday 10:34 AM
small steps (Love)
I have to remember that while I want to try and rekindle our relationship, I have to make sure not to come in too strong. I'm trying to figure out how to flirt with her,.but since we have been together so long its kind of difficult to make it fresh. Today feels kinda unsure for me, and amanda too.

baby steps Rob
-------------------------
9 February 2012 Thursday 10:39 AM
a date? (Love)
I asked amanda if she would want to go on a date with me on valentines day. She said she would think about it.... that felt weird, but I have to be willing to accept that she may actually say no although I hope she says yes.
-------------------------
9 February 2012 Thursday 10:46 AM
Serenade (Love)
I want to serenade Amanda with snc Fix You. my plan was to do it on valentines day. I have been practicing it, but am nervous about how amanda will receive it. My primary reason is to give of myself to her, just something to show her I care. part of me wants to impress her, kind of like the same vibe as the maxwell incident when we first met. maybe I'm just hanging on to the past, or maybe im longing for that feeling again. I think its the second one, and that is what amanda is doing too.

is it too much?
Is it too soon?
-------------------------
9 February 2012 Thursday 4:53 PM
Staci's laptop (Friends)
she is coming over tomorrow night. I am nervous and excited.

what does that mean?
-------------------------
9 February 2012 Thursday 6:55 PM
Butterfly catcher (Love)
Amanda told me she still gets butterflies....Just not for me anymore. It is difficult for me because I know how those feel in me and what that means about how I feel about her. I know she wishes that someday she can get that back because she tells me that, but for her she doesn't know when that would be. I kinda feel like im being held hostage by her distant attitude about all of this. At one point I felt exactly like Amanda does now toward me. For me at some point I made a concious decision to work to get myself to a place where I felt the butterflies again. That desire, that spark, that romantic feeling. It took time, but for me it was worth it.
-------------------------
9 February 2012 Thursday 10:10 PM
Her reaction (Love)
I had a great time catching up with an old friend from the past. She has been through the same thing so out was nice to be able to relate. we sat here for a couple hours just playing catch up, and talking about our kids, and life after marriage. don't get me wrong, I want Amanda, but I haven't been able to have a stimulating conversation.like that for a LONG time. 

I did txt Amanda and told her that Staci was over, and why. her first response was "no sex in the bed". I thought that was kinda tacky. What was unexpected tho was she started to txt flirt with me, trying to probe for info on her....Then out of nowhere she said she was heading home to drop off the truck, and let Breanna drive....Im pretty sure she was trying to check up on me. 

part of me relishes in that. 

Athough im willing to give her time and space, and I want her to want me again, I can't rest idle as I also need to be mentally and emotionally stimulated too. 
-------------------------
9 February 2012 Thursday 10:11 PM
a step, but in what direction? (Love)
I took my ring off.....but its in my medallion pouch in my front pocket. small moves right.
-------------------------
10 February 2012 Friday 11:08 AM
Long eventful night (Love)
Amanda got a ride home from Phil around 1:00am. She was really drunk, fumbling around with her phone. Then she asked me to help her sext Eric! My initial response was ?!!!?, but then I figured what the hell, I'll do it. Then she pulled down her top and wanted me to send him a pic of her tits!! I wasn't comfortable with that, so kinda stalled... I was going to record what she was saying so she could hear herself once she was sober to see how obnoxious she was being.

Eventually she got bored with that and headed for bed. I followed, kinda trying to figure out what she was thinking, without arguing with her which would have been futile while she was drunk.

Then she said to me "you ruined everything"! I asked her what she ment by that; ruined tonight, or our whole relationship? She could not come up with a response to that. I then brought up her trying to get me to sext Eric, and that that was over the line and I didn't agree with that. Then I reminded her how she gets when shes drunk. She then said something that I couldn't quite make out, but it seemed to imply something about us and now vs later. I said lets do it now.

After my talk with Staci, I decided that I didn't want to beat around the bush anymore, and want to be more assertive with Amanda...Almost a little dominant.

Shortly after I said lets do it now, she reached over and starred to stroke me. I responded by doing the same. 

What transpired was a night of aggressive and passionate sex, in which I was in complete control of Amanda when I wanted to be, and giving amanda control when she wanted it. Both our libidos were off the chart, something neither of us have had in a long time. There was scratching and biting both hard and soft, there was holding on tightly, bodies close together almost as one. She was seeking out french kisses as well! 

I brought her to orgasm repeatedly more times than I could count. I was assertive, making her ask for more, and picking her up, moving her where and in whatever position I pleased. I also let her do the same with me. It was a good sharing of dominance and submittance. 

we stopped for a smoke, and during that Amanda mentioned in a slur something like that she was supposed to be having sex with someone else. I can only assume she ment Eric. I redirected her by flirting, and being very cavalier/suave/sexy about the whole thing. 

My goal was to give her ALL of my attention, and it was working. She even returned the attention, and at one point even gave me head! I was NOT expecting that, or the fact that the way she was doing it was sensual, and deliberate....she was enjoying giving me pleasure and I was enjoying giving it back. 

I think we have both been building up this sexual tension. Her being inebriated most likely played a part in her being receptive to it, but once it started it was obvious she did not want it to end. I took her all the way to 4:30 at which point she was so exhausted that she fell asleep.

I knew this part of me was in here somewhere, I just forgot where to find it.

-------------------------
10 February 2012 Friday 3:30 PM
She said yes (Love)
Amanda said yes to Valentines dinner at Moonshine. I setup a reservation for 6 pm. Her work has that day blacked out so nobody can pre request the day off. As long as shes not scheduled then were on. yea baby.
-------------------------
10 February 2012 Friday 3:33 PM
Shes coming over (Friends)
Staci is coming over tonight. Last night was great with her, and superb with Amanda......I still want Staci to come hang out as she is intellectually stimulating.
-------------------------
10 February 2012 Friday 8:11 PM
took a rain check. (Friends)
I ended up taking a rain check with Stacy. Its right either cold feet, or warm concience, or maybe a little of both.
-------------------------
10 February 2012 Friday 8:21 PM
She asked ME out ! (Love)
So right when I was getting off work Amanda asked me if I wanted to go watch the band at Moonshine. Of course I said sure thing. I jumped through hoops lining up a baby sitter only to find that I didn't have the car seats! DOH! Lucky for me Wendy was able to come over and watch the kids while I went to get Miya.
-------------------------
10 February 2012 Friday 11:06 PM
remorse? (Love)
Amanda seems to be acting like she is remorseful about last night. I can't see how as she was having a great time, and had more orgasms in one night than she has had in our whole relationship. We we were connected. it was HER in there with me.
-------------------------
11 February 2012 Saturday 1:08 AM
I did it. (Love)
I was planning to do the serenade on valentines day, but today after the vibe tonight, I felt compelled to give it to her. I calmly said I wanted to give her something of myself...a gift. I told her to put her phone down and to not say anything.. that this was just for her. Then I sang Fix You while giving her a foot rub. I was nervous, so kinda shaky. When I was done singing, I paused for a bit and then told her the reason I was nervous was that I was bearing my heart and soul to her, something I haven't done for her in a long time. I said sorry for not doing that.
-------------------------
11 February 2012 Saturday 8:08 AM
who was she (Love)
part of me thinks that Amanda was maybe fantasizing about someone else that night. I gotta get those thoughts out of my head.
-------------------------
11 February 2012 Saturday 8:15 AM
kind of down (Love)
today is kind of a down day. I have to stay positive. I know what I want and am determined to try.
-------------------------
11 February 2012 Saturday 11:19 AM
(Love)
I have been trying for soooo long to help amanda get to where she could let go just enough to let those feelings of passion back in and achieve climax. I am so excited, and proud of her that she got there and that it was with me, not to mention that it was continuous, constant, and effortless. She, WE had a breakthrough the other night from my point of view, but for her either she truly doesn't remember, or is trying to forget.. either way I just hope she can come to accept that positive change.
-------------------------
11 February 2012 Saturday 1:34 PM
(Love)
I'm at a place where the things I think or say or do are because it makes me feel good to stand up and fight for what I believe in. neither of us can change the fact that for a large part of both our lives, those things involved each other. I can't change the past, I can't predict the future...all I can do is what I think is good and right today.......and thats why I did what I did for you last night.
-------------------------
11 February 2012 Saturday 2:05 PM
(Love)
Amanda the things I post on my wall are and have never been put there to manipulate a change in anyones behavior, or opinion. Its always been that way for me. if you are reading into it so much then maybe, just maybe there is something inside you that really does want us back, but doesn't know how to get from here to there. I know what I want and the hard part is that you won't accept that your physical and emotional wellbeing are important to me and all I have ever wanted was for you to feel happy, to feel whole, to know love, and to be strong enough to fight to keep it at all cost... For instance, last nights foot rub was for YOU, not me.. As was the night before that... I may not ever be able to have you back, which is a heartbreaking proposition to consider.. that being said, I have a choice in my life; to lay down and hide from what scares me, or to be brave and make the needed effort to fight to keep it at all cost.
-------------------------
11 February 2012 Saturday 11:04 PM
(Love)
what am I doing? this feels super awkward. She isn't even trying to engage in conversation with me. sigh. I'll work at being more coy. maybe that will help.
-------------------------
11 February 2012 Saturday 11:37 PM
where the attention lies (Love)
Shes texting him right next to me.
-------------------------
12 February 2012 Sunday 2:21 AM
its over (Love)
horrible
-------------------------
12 February 2012 Sunday 9:47 AM
last night together (Love)
We went out, and I was trying to engage her. She was more interested in texting this Eric guy. I didn't say anything. we went to a few places, same story. then I found out the reason we were migrating its that she was trying to hook up with him. I looked st her txt while she was off ignoring me on propose. She saw that I did that because I left it unread. We argued, and then....in the coldest most sterile way, she said I DON'T LOVE YOU AND I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO MAKE IT WORK WITH YOU. This its the extreme opposite of how she was acting in the beginning of the week, witch is why I was trying to makes an effort. It was late, she refused to ride home with me. I drove, she walked. I have laryngitis from yelling as loud as I possibly could the whole drive home. I broke down in front of my niece, who was watching my kids. Then when she got home I gave her the third degree for about an hour. I showed her all the Love and Logic material I brought home, which is specifically designed to help couples in our situation...She said she didn't care.... I was in a good place at the beginning of the week and accepted that we would stay separated, until she gave me the impression that she wanted to try....so I tried.....and then this. :-( 
-------------------------
12 February 2012 Sunday 9:50 AM
(Love)
the shame of it all us that im sooo angry and hurt that I can't stand it. Even then if she came to me and really wanted to try I would take her back. The fact that I would do that didn't even seem to phase her.
-------------------------
12 February 2012 Sunday 2:19 PM
Denial (Love)
I can't stop thinking about it, and her. I want her back to us again. I'm in denial and I don't know how to break free from it.
-------------------------
12 February 2012 Sunday 3:23 PM
(Love)
This hurts so much I can't stand it. I saw her putting a change of clothes in a bag and almost lost it again.
-------------------------
12 February 2012 Sunday 7:00 PM
(Love)
I'm trying as best I know how. everything I thought I knew about myself Amanda, being married, protecting my family from harm has all been turned upside down. 

its tough. essentially she left me. from my perspective its because I was not giving her what she needed, so she moved on. 

especially knowing we both felt the same and I was willing to work on it and she would rather bail....shes having coffee with that Eric after work. its a huge ego hit knowing that the woman you love for so long would rather be with a guy that essentially shes only known for a few weeks. 

the ****ty part is that she secretly was able to go through her feelings and get herself ready to move on in the safety of our family bubble, then when she was strong enough and ready to venture out on her own, thats when she broke the news, leaving me with an emotional train wreck that I have to try to repair all by myself.
-------------------------
12 February 2012 Sunday 11:16 PM
the attempt (Love)
When amanda got home from work she said that she had been thinking a lot about it, and has decided that she does want to make an effort to restore our marriage. We both agreed that we would both take small steps. She said she wants to still go out with friends. She said that she would not do any more drunk texting and flirting. I explained that is good. I also told her that I have never had an issue with her having friends or a social life outside if our marriage.

this is GREAT news to me for two reasons.

1. this shows me that she has been listening to me about my position.

2. She is willing to not be selfish about her needs and wants to be with me.
-------------------------
13 February 2012 Monday 9:30 AM
««««Day one of Mv2»»»» (Marriage V 2.0)
lets dig in together.

Were going to ask for guidance from our counselor. also there is a bunch of Focus on the Family stuff we can go through together.

I agree, and so does she that we will both need to be honest about our true feelings. We are at least both on the same page, which is a good start. I'm confident that if we both put in the effort we can repair the things we didn't nurture the first time around.

One thing both of us will need to do is establish boundaries. both to wrap aground our marriage and for our personal lives. We both deserve a level of privacy that neither one of us allowed. This will help foster individuality, as well as personal space. I think that when we both have that, it will allow us to get to WANT to, instead of SUPPOSED to. and help rebuild trust in one another that being together is still by choice.. 

if we both put in real effort and it still ends up that we are still not a good fit, then we will both know that it is real because we at least tried, that is something that I am prepared to accept.
-------------------------
13 February 2012 Monday 9:38 AM
The Ring (Marriage V 2.0)
I, am going to ask amanda at our appointment if she wants to put the rings back on. For me having the rings on is a way showing each other that we care and are committed to making it work. Also it shows others that we are in a relationship so then there wouldn't be confusion about each others interaction with people I the outside.
-------------------------
13 February 2012 Monday 7:39 PM
the ring answer (Marriage V 2.0)
I asked amanda and she said that she is not ready yet. the reason its that she doesn't really feel like were married. I'm confident that if we take the counselors advise, and we work on communicating, that we will be able to get back there.
-------------------------
13 February 2012 Monday 9:02 PM
Counseling (Marriage V 2.0)
Counseling was good today. I learned to slow down, not be so insecre about if people understand what I'm saying. Less is more, and I can just ask if they understand, or just wait for questions. Also I need to work on my listening skills. Amanda said for me not to say yes all the time, as it makes me look like a pushover. She wants me to be more assertive, and take more responsibility for the ins and outs of our household. It is OK to say no. Also Amanda will work on communicating how she feels instead if keeping it to herself, I will do the same. Also I will ask if things are OK before acting, like holding hands, kissing, snuggling, etc...
-------------------------
13 February 2012 Monday 10:46 PM
Day 1 (Marriage V 2.0)
This day was a good one. Some parts were awkward, but that is to be expected for a while I think. 
-------------------------
14 February 2012 Tuesday 12:42 PM
Valentines day. (Marriage V 2.0)
I ordered flowers for Amanda. They are supposed to be delivered today. I'm nervous and excited for Amanda's reaction. I hope she likes them.
-------------------------
14 February 2012 Tuesday 4:44 PM
Flowers (Marriage V 2.0)
She likes em!
-------------------------
15 February 2012 Wednesday 12:48 AM
date; from good to bad. (Marriage V 2.0)
so our date went great, up until we went up to the bar. Initially our plan was to eat, socialize for a little while, then go home and watch a movie and have some quality time together. Instead it degenerated into an all night bender, which is typical behavior these days with her. Amanda had 6-8 mixed drinks and 8-10 beers out more. Through the course of the night, as she got steadily more and more intoxicated, she became more and more distant. she was trying very hard to not be near me, as if being near me made it difficult to have fun. I was being engaging, and social with her and the others at the bar, and so was amanda. at the beginning of the night she mentioned that this was the best valentines day we'd ever had, but buy the end she was stand off ish, disrespectful, and beligerant. we got there just before 6 and by the time the first diamond was drawn at 8 she was already drunk. I chose to stay with her through the night, to try to have fun, even though I watched her progressively get more and more intoxicated. it was making me uncomfortable, not for my sobriety, but for her well being. after the last diamond was drawn at 12am, I asked her if she wanted to leave. thats when all hell broke loose. in her drunken condition, she told me that she didn't want me again. she said that she said she wanted to make it work because she didn't want me to feel bad. I told her I don't believe her, and that it felt like there was something else wrong, like she was trying very hard to make up for lost time or something. I told her that she asked me to be assertive, and thats what I was doing. she had simply had too much to drink and it was time to go. I also reminded her that she has acknowledged that she drinks too much and wanted to stop...she was either lying, or simply can't stop once she starts. either way it is alcoholic behavior I should know, I lived it; from euphoria, to self centered self serving, to totally unable to control it, spiraling down towards a bottom. I hope for her sake that her bottom us much higher than mine, and that she comes back before its too late, she gets hurt, or worse. Once we got home I told her I was sorry that I yelled at her, and that I loved her and cared about her. I also told her that the way she was acting was the same way I acted towards her when I was getting nearer to my bottom, that I can recognize it, and am concerned for her safety.

she did say I love you as I left the room...I slept on the couch.
-------------------------
15 February 2012 Wednesday 1:27 AM
trust (Marriage V 2.0)
I am finding it hard to regain trust in Amanda. She says she wants to work at making us work, but she had stipulations:

one was that she still wants to flirt with other men, and still text her guy friends. in the past when we were closer, we could do that and still include each other...it felt easy. now it is different, it doesn't feel the same as before, at least for me.

also she acknowledged that she drinks too much. to me though, I don't see her making progress to quit.

-------------------------
15 February 2012 Wednesday 7:01 AM
remorse (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda asked me if she was mean to me last night. I said yes. she said sorry, and she didn't mean those things she said. I said I know but they still hurt.
-------------------------
15 February 2012 Wednesday 9:52 AM
The other guy? (Marriage V 2.0)
so amanda had a LONG txt conversation with eric last night at the bar. I asked her about it last night and she said she txt him twice, but she was lying. I'm not comfortable with that. I am not sure how to approach her about it though.
-------------------------
15 February 2012 Wednesday 12:08 PM
binge? (Relaxation)
I was balancing the check book, and found that from 1/15-2/14 Amanda has spent over $300.00 at Moonshine. this doesn't include cash transactions. This is a lot, too much. I mentioned it to her, she was alarmed, but seemed to be minimizing the issue. 

also she started txting with Eric on 1/26. the best I can gather is that something started bothering her in jan, and somehow crossing paths with Eric seemed to make whatever that is easier to deal with/forget about.

from what I know of amanda, when she gets a notion in her head, she seems to plow ahead full steam, often times with disregard of side effects our potential consequences. Another thing about her that is definitely manifesting here is that if someone points these things out, she seems to rebel and in some cases amplify out of spite, or anger that she was held accountable....this is the stubborn part of her personality.


The hard part is that from my experience, Amanda doesn't become aware of the true nature of her behavior until it is after the fact....sometimes too late.

At this point I'm more concerned for her physical and emotional well being, than wether it not she stays with me our leaves.
-------------------------
15 February 2012 Wednesday 2:54 PM
texting (Marriage V 2.0)
I approached amanda about how much she was texting eric. and she got mad at me. she is so secretive, and I have trust issues.
-------------------------


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

15 February 2012 Wednesday 5:47 PM
feel depressed (Relaxation)
I feel depressed right now. All thin this stuff with Amanda is exhausting.
-------------------------
15 February 2012 Wednesday 10:05 PM
the ring (Marriage V 2.0)
I decided to put my ring back on. I know amanda said she doesn't feel like were married. I do feel that way so thats why put it back on.
-------------------------
16 February 2012 Thursday 11:55 PM
(Marriage V 2.0)
Hi Eric, this is Rob, Amanda's husband. I have been thinking about texting you for a while now, but wasn't sure exactly what to say until now. Amanda told me that you were taking your break up kinda hard. I just wanted to say I know how you feel. Amanda has probably already told you that although her and I are in a rough spot, we are still married, together, and are trying to work though it because we love each other but have lost that spark along the way. I'm sure you can relate. I just wanted to tell you that I have NO problem with you and Amanda being friends. She is a great girl, and has always been able to be helpful, and give comfort. Its just who she is. I'm sure she is doing some of that with you too, and I hope that it is helping. Amanda is in a place where she is searching for something that she thinks she lost. Part of that I think she is getting from having this friendship with you. She has a tendency to be persistent, forward and sometimes takes things too far without thinking about it first. That being said I just ask you, man to man, to not cross over that friend line with her. Things are awkward enough in our marriage without an extra element like that involved. I hope you agree.
-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 1:01 AM
backlash (Marriage V 2.0)
I sent that txt to eric, now amanda thinks I am trying to keep eric away. that is totally not the case. I just wanted to clear the air and define a boundary that by all rights I think I should be able to have. frankly amanda should as well.
-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 1:47 AM
counseling topics (Marriage V 2.0)
amandas drinking. its getting out of control. over 300 this last month. I'm not afraid for my sobriety, but am concerned for her physical and emotional well being. I'm an alcoholic and see the progression in amanda.

inappropriate interaction with eric. choosing to interact with him on an intimate level instead of trying to have that interaction with me to restore our relationship.

very stand offish about talking about what she really wants. not willing to let people in.

selfish, wanting people to do or be how she wants, and unwilling to compromise for other people. no give and take. 
-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 2:05 AM
call dr (Marriage V 2.0)
I'm going to call dr. Hadland about Amandas behavior since the most recent med change.
-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 2:15 AM
she couldn't stop again (Marriage V 2.0)
amanda said she was only going to have 2-3 beers at wii bowling, but instead got drunk at the bar, then had an after party with friends over until who knows when. another example of not being able to control her drinking, or her behavior when she is drunk...just like I used to be before I admitted that I was an alcoholic.

now more than ever I want to be there to support her, and hopefully help her, through my own experience, to see the caliber of the situation.
-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 8:48 AM
skipping school (Family)
amanda did not get Simon to school today. I found out because I called home and simon answered! I told her that I am concerned about her, and that this is bigger than just our relationship. she told me not to call her again. I hope she snaps out of this.
-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 1:11 PM
The line in the sand (Marriage V 2.0)
I have done everything to make a home, marriage and family. You have decided it's not worth the compromise, or the effort anymore. 

you need to work on you, and me on me. You should move out, as its best for the kids to not see that part of you. I'll get a roommate and make it work. We should both go to individual counseling. On paper you can use my benefits for that for the time being. If you decide you want to be a part of our family again then you have to earn that back through right thinking and right actions. 


-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 1:14 PM
the eric factor. (Marriage V 2.0)
you do understand that devoting your time, attention, and emotions to another person while denying those things to me is an affair dont you? you sit in my presence, saying you want to hang out with me, instead you bury yourself in your phone with him. you tell me drunk last night that you wanted him to sleep over. how do you expect me to react! do you even remember that?

I'm sorry Amanda, but I will not put up with that from you or anyone else anymore. I care about you, I still love you and this breaks my heart that this is happening, but I have to stand up for what I believe is right.....the way you are acting is not right.

you forced my hand. I made it clear to eric how I feel about you being friends. HE made the decision to steer clear, NOT me. he is an adult, and made his own decision based on the situation. he is hurting from a broken relationship....did it ever cross your mind that he has decided that because he knows how it feels, he doesn't want to put himself or you into a position to cause that pain to happen to someone else?

because thats what I see from the outside. you can't see that because you are more emotionally invested in him than you are willing to admit.
-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 2:52 PM
her impression of me. (Marriage V 2.0)
You don't keep yourself clean. You spend too much time on those stupid helicopters. You're not that good in bed. When you touch me it makes me cringe. And I do remember saying that.

if she felt this way for so long, she should have said something. since I became aware of these opinions, I have been able to change these things...for myself.
-------------------------
17 February 2012 Friday 7:30 PM
The Fellow Traveler (Family)
This came to me while I was driving home from *******. I posted this on my Facebook wall:

_______________________________________

Hello again traveler. Feel free to climb back into this boat with me. I'll need you to tend the sails, help me check for leaks and repair them as they come, grab the map and navigate...I'll do the same, you have my word. We have a voyage to continue. The destination is unknown and there are bound to be perils ahead, but if we hold on tight, batten down the hatches, and secure our fragile cargo, we can make it through them mostly unscathed. We can repair this ship as we go as long as we work together to keep it afloat, for our cargo must come through intact. It will be quite an adventure, full of wonder, excitement, joy, fear, and strife...we will be tested, but we will be better for it. You have been on this adventure before....do you remember? This ship has been docked here for far too long, so I ask you, come aboard with me.... Otherwise kindly step back as this ship is about set sail.
_______________________________________ 

-------------------------
18 February 2012 Saturday 10:11 AM
She said YES. (lets see if it sticks) (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda read my fb post about the fellow traveler. This morning she said she really wants to try, and that she wants to be done with the whole partying thing. I told her thats a good idea as whatever she is doing now doesn't seem very effective. Then I asked her to put her ring back on, and that although right now it may not seem much like were married, we are going to try to be, and the ring signifies our resolve to make it work. She agreed, and I got down on one knee, in our messy living room, with the kids in her lap. I told her that although I may get madd at her, and sometimes not pay enough attention to her or our marriage, that one thing has never changed...That is that I love her and care about her well being. Then I said for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, I want to be with you for the rest of my life. Then I asked her "Do you want to be with me for the rest of your life?" She looked at me...and said yes! I put the ring in her finger, and we smiled together. a real smile that both of us shared....something we have not been able to do for a long time. I told her that it will take allot of work, time, and attention, but that we will be better for it. she agreed.


now we wait, we work, and we try to grow together past this place we are at.
-------------------------
18 February 2012 Saturday 8:55 PM
Ground rules. (Marriage V 2.0)
I have started to put some ground rules in place; no txting constantly while we are doing things together, also no txt arguing. Both good and bad communication need to be done in person. Cut the drinking out, as well as the out all the time out all night behavior. Sometimes we will need to do or say things to/for each other deliberately that foster REAL togetherness, growth, and support, and that sometimes we may not want to do these things at the time, that they are necessary to rebuild our bond. I also said that we both need to be comfortable talking about how we feel about each other early and often so that we both will have a chance to work together and be willing to compromise if needed to resolve it I also reinforced my position on defending my territory, and crossing the friend line. I told her that I've never had a problem with her having a friend that is a guy, but that if I sense that one or the other us blurring that friend line, I will step in and defend/enforce my territory again just like I did with Eric. She understands this, and said that she doesn't want that to happen again...I said it better not or she will be held accountable. At this point the vibe is that I have taken a stand, given an ultimatum, and she has decided to apologize, accept it and stay to show me that she wants this through words AND actions. It's almost as if Amanda has "grounded" herself from the world she has lived in over the last month and wants to work to not go to that place again.


-------------------------
19 February 2012 Sunday 8:54 PM
Asking permission (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda asked permission to stop and have a beer after work. I said that as long as it's only one.
-------------------------
20 February 2012 Monday 12:21 AM
another delayed departure (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda said that she was going to leave moonshine at 10:45. it is now 12:30a.and she's still out..I'm disappointed. Last night I cut our show recording abruptly when she got home from work...	deliberate act to show her that I want to work on giving her attention.
-------------------------
20 February 2012 Monday 1:15 AM
home late (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda got home at 1:15. She brought Alicia with. Then i was enlisted to drive to the store to get them some 3.2 wine. Alicia came out and said that they wouldn't sell it that late. Then she said she wanted to go home, so i took her home. I have to figure out how to discuss that with Amanda....


-------------------------
20 February 2012 Monday 3:05 PM
Great sex (Marriage V 2.0)
The sex last night was great! I brought Amanda to orgasm multiple times.
-------------------------
21 February 2012 Tuesday 4:55 PM
diamond drawing (Marriage V 2.0)
Tonight amanda and I are going to the diamond drawing. we talked about her taking it easy, having one drink/hour, and having soda or water inbetween. this will be the first social activity since she came back aboard the ship. We'll see how this pans out, I'm optimistic.  
-------------------------
21 February 2012 Tuesday 8:30 PM
wheres the guys. (Friends)
I hope Chris is able to come soon. I need some male interaction.
-------------------------
22 February 2012 Wednesday 2:11 PM
Last night (Marriage V 2.0)
Last night was stellar. Amanda was on a mission, LOL I also made her climax many times including with intercourse. She was quite creative which made it lots of fun.
-------------------------
22 February 2012 Wednesday 8:02 PM
Unneeded apprehension (Marriage V 2.0)
For some reason I worry that Amanda is going to call or text me that she wants to go to Moonshine for a drink. I shouldn't worry because she said she wants to have a smash mini marathon so I will trust that she will do what she said she would.


8:25
Amanda called to say she was done with work, and was going to stop at Walmart for a couple things, then she'll be home. I guess I was worried over nothing aftefall.

If this is what it feels like to try to regain trust in someone then I can only imagine how Amanda felt when I broke her trust over and over and over again.
-------------------------
23 February 2012 Thursday 10:25 AM
watching her sleep (Marriage V 2.0)
Last night amanda laid her head in my lap and I rubbed her sinuses. I also stroked her face and hair until she fell asleep. I sat and watched her like that until I too fell asleep.
-------------------------
23 February 2012 Thursday 9:47 PM
Wii bowling (Marriage V 2.0)
9:45p
Starting Wii bowling. Got a spare first run. This should be fun.
-------------------------
24 February 2012 Friday 12:19 AM
Fun Night (Marriage V 2.0)
I'm having fun tonight. We watched Maybe Saints.
-------------------------
25 February 2012 Saturday 1:14 AM
After party (Marriage V 2.0)
Came to an after party. We ended up staying there until 3am. While there I could tell that she was looking for Eric, it was obvious. Once she found him she did everything she could to be near him. When I called her on it, .she got defensive saying **** you. She kicked, kneed, and punched me multiple times, HARD. It wasn't playful. It took a long time to convince Amanda to leave. She was hell bent on staying. It took trip other girls to convince her.
-------------------------
27 February 2012 Monday 9:52 AM
Dr Visit. (Marriage V 2.0)
Went to Amanda's Dr appt with her. There I asked about if it's possible to be too high, possibly manic. Dr said he doesn't see that. Asked if there are negative interactions with alcohol and her meds. He said that since alcohol is a depressant, that it could counter the positive effects of the meds. During our conversation, Amanda said she goes out 3 or 4 times a week and gets drunk, Dr Hadland told her that is not normal, and could mean there may be an alcohol problem. Amanda got mad at me because she thinks I made Dr Hadland think she is an alcoholic. She brought up the frequency and amount, not me.
-------------------------
28 February 2012 Tuesday 8:22 PM
Work in progress (Marriage V 2.0)
I couldnt get a babysitter for tonight, so couldn't go to the diamond drawing with Amanda. :-( The nice thing is that Amanda said she'd come home after the 10 drawing, that is nice of her to do that. Part of me is worried that she is going to call close to 10 and decide to stay longer.... I still find myself apprehensive that she is going to do something behind my back. I shouldn't feel that way as she is giving me all kinds of reasons to trust her. I guess maybe those couple times last week that she kind of went overboard make it tough for me. I am doing better about not dwelling on it so much and am occupying my time with other things. 

I realize now that trust issues is a charachter defect that i have not done anything to work on. It is something that i have to pay attention to for sure.
-------------------------
28 February 2012 Tuesday 10:13 PM
Worried over nothing (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda just called and said shes finishing her beer, then she'll be home. I was worried over nothing.
-------------------------
28 February 2012 Tuesday 10:31 PM
Spoke too soon (Marriage V 2.0)
So shortly after my last entry, amanda txt that she wanted to stay out later. She said she would trade thursday for staying out till 12a tonight. I gave in and said yes....why do i do that? I guess i am a sucker for giving her what she wants all the time. I dont get what i want all the time, but then again i dont ask for much or do much on my own anyway so... it just kinda sucks sitting here waiting for her to be done having her fun so that i can hang out with her.
-------------------------
29 February 2012 Wednesday 12:39 AM
Here i am again. (Marriage V 2.0)
Here i am once again waiting up for Amanda. It feels like she had no intention on coming home at 10. Its 12:45 and shes still not home. Why do i put up with this???
-------------------------
29 February 2012 Wednesday 3:48 AM
No spark (Marriage V 2.0)
She got home, was kind of stand off ish and spent much of her time texting with Eric. She finally came to bed, after what felt like me coercing her. She locked the door, which is how i know she wanted to have sex, but it kinda felt like she was doing a chore. I wasnt feeling it and couldnt stay aroused. I triex a few things but we werent clicking. I tried to give her oral but she pulled away. i stopped, she fell asleep....and then i snuggled with her.
-------------------------


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

1 March 2012 Thursday 8:16 AM
The other guy (Friends)
Part of me is still apprehensive about the Eric factor. I dont mind Amanda having friends that are guys, but she talks to him every day. I feel like she has some sort of pet crush on him.
-------------------------
1 March 2012 Thursday 7:19 PM
Here we are again. (Relaxation)
Trying to have a nice romantic evening with Amanda, just me and her. Of course we find ourselves at ****ing Moonshine AGAIN! I swear she is obsessed with this place. I cant figure out why she has this need to come here all the time...what is it that she is getting out of this place thats different than any other place. I agree that it is pretty laid back, but COME ON. Whatever....im just going to grin and bear it... I hate that i feel like i have to compete with this place for Amandas attention. I just wish she would just grow out of it.
-------------------------
1 March 2012 Thursday 10:51 PM
Speaking my mind. (Marriage V 2.0)
Spoke my mind and told amanda about how i feel about her texting eric all the time and she immediately got defensive. I just wanted her to say that its allright and that she could choose real intetaction with me instead of vicarious interaction with him.
-------------------------
2 March 2012 Friday 3:32 AM
She lied again (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda lied again about where she is and what she is doing. I cant believe i let her leave here tonight. She said shed be home at 1am then said she was going to an after party at breannas moms house. She went to Erics house, i know because after she did not reply to me i checked lattitude and saw her phone at plasteramics.....im done
-------------------------
2 March 2012 Friday 4:06 AM
Confrontation (Marriage V 2.0)
She lied to my face about where she really was until i confronted her and said i knew that she was at Erics house. Then she continued to lie about breanna being with her. I called breanna and she said she wasnt with amanda after Moonshine. I told her that what she said about being an alchoholic and not being ready to quit yet is true. I then said that i thinm it would be a good idea to stop drinking, if only for a week to start, as i believe she is strong enough to do that, and that i believe that is where all of this is stemming from. Then i told her that i didnt want her to go away...then she said dhe did not want me to go away either. I told her i love her, kissed her goodnight on her forehead and went to bed.....alone. :-(
-------------------------
2 March 2012 Friday 11:43 AM
The choice (Marriage V 2.0)
So i told amanda this morning that i think she does have an alchohol problem, and that it is most likely the source of some of these other things. I explained to her that she was a different person yesterday before we went out than after. I explained that once she started drinking her attitude changed...and her attention started to move toward Eric...the end result of wich was her getting defensive when i confronted her about that when we were supposed to be hanging out..then she ended up at his house in the hottub with him naked!!! I told her that she needs to make a decision... If she wants to be here she needs to show me on purpose by not drinking anymore and not talking to Eric any longer.

And now I wait for her response.....
-------------------------
2 March 2012 Friday 1:02 PM
Progress? (Marriage V 2.0)
I talked with amanda some more.. She said she knows i might nit believe her but that she is sorry. I told her that i understand what she means, and that i do believe her... I also told her a lesser man would have walked already. She admitted that if she stopped drinking things would be better. I agreed....now just time to wait and see.... I believe she can.
-------------------------
2 March 2012 Friday 2:54 PM
The bombshell (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda told me she had sex with Eric. Im numb, but My initial reaction is to love more. To shoe support while being sure she new that i am very upset about it. She can no longer have any contact with eric. She agrees and she's very remorseful. As she should be.
-------------------------
3 March 2012 Saturday 1:02 PM
In a daze (Marriage V 2.0)
Im still in a daze. It almost doesnt feel real. This still feels surreal. Like im having a dream....you know the kind where you try and run but can't seem to get anywhere. Its like I can see you in there, you can't hear or see me...but you wish I was there to protect you. I want to reach in and pull you out....but you are just out of reach, and I feel frantic and helpless. 
-------------------------
4 March 2012 Sunday 9:13 AM
Caring for her (Marriage V 2.0)
Last night I laid amanda downand and I gave her a lotion back rub and leg rub. While I did that I spent a long time talking about how I felt. While I did that I spent a long time talking about how I felt. I told her that I was angry, disappointed and sad. I told her what she means to me, and that we cannot forget, but that I was willing to forgive her. I said that she is not a bad person, but that she made a bad decision. I think that she understood. After that, we went to bed together.
-------------------------
4 March 2012 Sunday 9:21 AM
Am I responding correctly? (Marriage V 2.0)
I have not really expressed anger about what has happened. I am angry about it, but i think part of me doesn't want to express that for fear of making amanda feel worse than she already does. I have to be assertive about how I feel.
-------------------------
4 March 2012 Sunday 9:30 AM
Neglecting my leisure time (Relaxation)
I have neglected my hobby for some time now since all this happened. I just fixed My X5. Now time to fly it and see if i still got it.
-------------------------
4 March 2012 Sunday 10:17 AM
Back in the air (Relaxation)
I just flew the X5 for the first time in like 3 weeks. started slow, but its just like riding a bike. By the end I was working on a move I have been practicing on the sim, crack piro flips ;-) I think it's time I gave myself some attention again.
-------------------------
4 March 2012 Sunday 11:36 AM
Stomping grounds (Marriage V 2.0)
I told Amanda how i felt about going to moonshine so early after what happened. The last time she was there, she met up with Eric, went to his house, and ended up having SEX with him. Go figure there is a stigma about that place for me.
-------------------------
4 March 2012 Sunday 3:28 PM
Cant stop thinking about it (Marriage V 2.0)
I keep picturing Amanda in the act. It feels horrible to know that she enjoyed it. I want to ask her if she climaxed, but im afraid that she will say yes. :-( 

3:30p I asked her, and she said she doesn't think so, but doesn't remember.
-------------------------
4 March 2012 Sunday 8:05 PM
Down, but not out (Marriage V 2.0)
I feel really down right now
-------------------------
4 March 2012 Sunday 9:48 PM
Trust building? (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda said she feels couped up. She asked if she could go to Moonshine for an hour. she said it would be a way to show me she could be trusted.
-------------------------
5 March 2012 Monday 9:50 AM
Blah (Marriage V 2.0)
I feel depressed today. Im waiting for Amanda to come to me, it hasn't happened yet. :-(
-------------------------
5 March 2012 Monday 9:59 AM
She came  (Marriage V 2.0)
She approached me. it felt good.
-------------------------
5 March 2012 Monday 4:09 PM
So confused (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda says that she wants to be here. But says she doesn't feel the romance. All this work ive been trying to do the last couple weeks has done nothing for her. WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!!!

Actually i think its now up to her to want to have those feelings for it to get better.
-------------------------
5 March 2012 Monday 5:53 PM
Sad news (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda doesnt love me, and that makes me sad.

She says she wants to, but doesn't know how. I am at least hopeful for that
-------------------------
5 March 2012 Monday 7:41 PM
My heart held hostage. (Marriage V 2.0)
Am i the one thats trying too hard? Do i expect too much? I justdont know what to say or do to bring her closer to me. It hurts so bad to know that she is where she is at. She committed adultry, and still somehow she needs her space to figure things out. I dont get it, either you want to or you dont.... right now shr doesnt. I know she is upset about what she did, but i cant tell if it really is because she hurt me, and damaged our relationship or if its because she did something wrong and is now in trouble for it.


Maybe i think too much. Sometimes i wish i couldnt think or feel.. sometimes i wish that i was just a void, a nothing. Right now that is how i feel. If my advances do nothing for amanda any longer then what is the point of it all.
-------------------------
6 March 2012 Tuesday 9:04 AM
Dont think, just feel. (Marriage V 2.0)
Give this a try.
-------------------------
6 March 2012 Tuesday 1:06 PM
the ache (Marriage V 2.0)
whenever I think of the idea of Amanda being gone, it makes my heart literally hurt. I can feel it, it's a physical pain.
-------------------------
6 March 2012 Tuesday 8:26 PM
Date (Marriage V 2.0)
Im having a great time with amanda. Werejoking and talking and having fun together.
-------------------------
6 March 2012 Tuesday 11:00 PM
after the date (Marriage V 2.0)
So we get back home, and find ourselves sitting next to each other on the couch watching friends. we both sat quietly, awkwardly...like when you are in an early date with someone and are not sure what to say our do. I almost reached out to hold her hand, but stopped short. I dig the way this feels.....like we are young and nervous.

at least thats how I feel
-------------------------
7 March 2012 Wednesday 4:40 PM
panic attack? (Marriage V 2.0)
I just had what felt like a mini panic attack. Out of nowhere, I pictured Amanda having sex with Eric. How long are these things going to last? Others that have gone through this say that what I'm feeling is PTSD, like what war vets and catastrophe survivors go through. The flashbacks are common but will subside with time.
-------------------------
7 March 2012 Wednesday 11:39 PM
another great evening (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda got off work about 8. She came home, with ribs. We sat and watched.American idol together. Again there was no friction, just a little of that nervous tension, like getting to know her all over again. Whatever this is, I LIKE it! I hope that this just keeps going and going.
-------------------------
8 March 2012 Thursday 8:05 AM
reaching out (Marriage V 2.0)
Last night in bed Amanda put her phone down, snuggled up next to me, and then reached out and put her hand on my arm. That felt good  
-------------------------
8 March 2012 Thursday 5:49 PM
another good day (Marriage V 2.0)
So far today has been really good. 
-------------------------
9 March 2012 Friday 12:22 AM
night out (Marriage V 2.0)
We are having a good night out together again, this time doing wii bowling. gonna hang til bar close then head home.
-------------------------
9 March 2012 Friday 4:29 AM
Our second first time (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda and I had sex after our friends left. We were both a little nervous about it. Amanda said I didn't have to if I didn't want to. I said I wanted to, and that we could take it slow. I told her to take the lead and if she wanted to stop just say the word. She didn't stop us, and we did take it slow. She had multiple orgasms,.and I was patient, going at the pace she wanted. She held me tightly during each one, and as she was having them she whimpered a little bit. When we were done she fell right asleep.

I don't know if sex was the smartest thing given our current situation, but it was what we both wanted at the time.
-------------------------
9 March 2012 Friday 7:35 AM
Drunk texting, and a change of heart? (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda drunk texted Eric last night saying she wants to be friends still. I'm not comfortable with that.


last friday's message
Last one sent as media msg. Not sure if you could read it. ok, so I know i'm supposed to leave you alone, but something feels unresolved and I don't know why. Maybe its the "**** someone and they never talk to you again" complex. Idk. What happened was way uncharted territory for me and there are a lot of thoughts going through my head about it. I know all it was was a drunken stupid decision and i'm not expecting anything. I feel worse about actually enjoying it than I do about anything else though. So respond or don't respond. Just had to get that out.
--Share Via GO SMS


last night's message
So i'm sorry that i'm drunk and texting you. I know i'm Not supposed to. Just sayin that friends is ok with me if its ok with you. **** never happened, k? Back to old ****, k? friends. ??
-------------------------
9 March 2012 Friday 10:44 AM
Spooked over nothing (Marriage V 2.0)
I tried to get ahold of amanda a few times and could not. I got spooked and my mind started racing thinking she was at Erics place or something crazy. Those drunken txt msgs last night threw me for a loop. 

I have to work on focusing on reasons TO trust her rather than reasons not to.
-------------------------
9 March 2012 Friday 10:54 AM
Thought progression W1 (Marriage V 2.0)
first week since the affair.

thursday 3/1
we fight about her texting eric, she leaves...doesn't come home until 4 am. I told her before we went to bed that I can't live like this and if she wants to be a part of this family, she needs to get the drinking under control and stop having contact with Eric.

friday 3/2
she breaks the news that she slept with eric last night after we fought and she left. I'm devastated, her too...she is remorseful. SHE said she wants to stop drinking because she does irresponsible things when she is drinking, and agreed to break contact with eric.

saturday 3/3 
Amanda texted eric looking for some closure with him. she told me she did it, and let me read them.

sun 3/4 
she went to moonshine and had soda, she let me see her in lattitude and stayed in com with me via txt.

monday 3/5
We had some dialogue. Amanda is not all the way in the boat. she said her head tells her to stay but her heart tells her to go. this makes me sad. She said she wants to get to where her heart is where her head is. that makes me hopeful.

She went to Moonshine and had a few beers. Again she was honest and on the level, but now drinking is back in the picture.


tuesday 3/6
We went to the diamond drawing. Im having a great time with amanda. Werejoking and talking and having fun together. She had a few drinks, and mixed it with soda, there was no friction caused by alcohol.

wednesday 3/7
Amanda expressed that she enjoyed moderation. She sent me the following txt:

You know, after all the partying i've been doing, it felt really good to go out and have some beers and still have fun without getting wasted and wake up without a hangover! 

that night she came home after work, we had ribs, and watched idol. she drank wine, but in moderation, again another good night.


thursday 3/8
Went to wii bowling. Amanda said early on that she kinda wanted to get drunk. She did get drunk, we stayed out until bar close, then had friends over til about 2:30 am. While there Amanda drunk txted Eric saying she still wanted to be friends and forget anything happened last thursday.

!!!! I told her that I am not comfortable with that, and that we should talk about it when she is sober.

When I look back at this week I see some trends:
- Initial conditions were no contact with eric, and no more drinking.

Amanda is doing more to contribute to us reconciling our marriage.

She is sitting on the fringe about eric, unsure how to feel about not having contact, which is causing her to try to have contact...Eric is not responding.

She is showing a slow but consistent back slide on the subject of her drinking. going from soda, to a few beers to a full on bender with beer,.hard liquor,.and wine in the span of only one week. I went along with her saying she could control it, but when it started to progress again gradually allot of the old behaviors and impared judgment that brought us to the affair resurfaced almost immediately.


Alcohol = bad judgment = relationship problems.

Some things she has said, or events that have occurred that may be triggers for her drinking that I have noticed:

parents moved away, this is a very big deal for her.

She is starting to feel like she is getting old, saying things like, were old,.out of the loop. wish I was young again. can't get that back, etc...

recent change in mood after the med change, helping her to feel more outgoing, energetic, self confident, etc.... this change is a GOOD thing by itself, but it combined with other unresolved feelings about the other things could make the "drink to not deal" thing much more pronounced.

I am pretty much convinced, as is Amanda as she said it herself more than once, that she has developed an alcohol problem that she is struggling to control.
-------------------------
10 March 2012 Saturday 8:23 AM
Nice evening (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda came home after work last night with dinner and a movie for us to watch. It was a nice evening. She said she really missed me, I said I missed her too. She apologized for drunk texting Eric, and that she wished she could just go back to the way things used to be (before eric). She said she kinda felt bad for me about us having sex thursday night. I told her that she doesn't have to feel that way, that it's ok, I'm ok. I told her that she was my wife and I love her. She said she doesn't remember how it felt (she was drunk). I told her that we took it slow and that she liked it, and that she climaxed multiple times.
-------------------------
10 March 2012 Saturday 12:20 PM
She called me. (Marriage V 2.0)
I texted Amanda earlier today to see if she could get the day off and we could have family movie night. She was receptive about it, and is trying. I didn't call her today...was going to let get call me. She did call me around lunch time just to see how my day was going. That was nice, it lets me know that I am in her mind.  . She also mentioned there is a band playing up at Maddys and she wanted to know if I wanted to go opp there when she gets off work. She called me, and she asked me out, I dig it. B-) 
-------------------------
11 March 2012 Sunday 12:46 PM
Fun evening, but one snag (Marriage V 2.0)
Last night we went out together again. we watched a band play at moonshine, then went to liquor pugs for a bit,.then back to moonshine. Amanda drank in moderation, and we had fun. Amanda said that she saw eric at liquor pigs, I didn't even notice him. Amanda still says that she wants to be friends with eric, and wants to be able to cross paths without it being awkward. She has even re friended him on facebook! I told her that today I am not able to be comfortable with that as my injuries have not healed yet. I know that Amanda is where she wants to be as far as us is concerned, and wants that to get stronger again, but the Eric factor is still too new for me not to let it get in the way.

I asked her to at least not have contact with him until after counseling on Monday, so she can get sound advice from a professional about the Eric being friends thing. She agreed.
-------------------------
11 March 2012 Sunday 7:32 PM
Down day for me (Marriage V 2.0)
It was really nice out, but I have been really lazy. I'm bummed about the Eric thing still. I have barely started to heal. I'm just emotionally drained.
-------------------------
11 March 2012 Sunday 8:39 PM
Amanda out (Marriage V 2.0)
amanda just got off work. she asked if she could stop at moonshine with ******. I said thats ok. I asked if it was ok to ruth on her gps. she said that was ok too.
-------------------------
11 March 2012 Sunday 9:41 PM
Impromptu wii bowl (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda is going to wii bowl now. I hope she doesn't stay out late.
-------------------------
12 March 2012 Monday 12:26 AM
wating (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda is still out. she kept saying in a bit, last one was 1 hr 20 min ago. If she would just day that she was planning on staying out late, at least I'd know that
-------------------------
12 March 2012 Monday 1:39 AM
fizzle, (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda got home around 1:15. she implied that she wanted to have sex, but I found her texting Eric. she let me read them, and there is a vibe where she is trying to mend her friendship.

She also blocked my access to the website, saying if I'm ever going to trust her that will help. I don't think that's the case. I think if I can see the tn's. then I have proof that she if not lying or hiding. with it blocked I will never know for sure that the X amount of texts that she really sent.

I'm going to talk to her about that tomorrow.
-------------------------
12 March 2012 Monday 10:54 AM
choices (Marriage V 2.0)
last night I had another panic attack, this one lasted longer. after that I some amanda up and ventured to her about it and told her that she has to make a choice. she has to either pick me or eric. she worked eric back into her life gradually, without really asking me if that was ok. I am not able to handle him being connected to our family, I just can't do it. she was prepared to cut ties with him for her sister, so I hope she can do that for me/our family.
-------------------------
12 March 2012 Monday 1:14 PM
... (Marriage V 2.0)
I told her how I feel. It didn't cause her to want to change. im sad. 
-------------------------
13 March 2012 Tuesday 10:32 AM
amandas counselor (Marriage V 2.0)
Amandas counselor told her that it would be a good idea to not have contact with Eric until she gets her head straight. I can tell that Amanda doesn't like to hear that. I sincerely hope that she is able to do it because I don't have any miter room in my heart or strength in my bones to be comfortable with her having a relationship with the man she cheated with. It bothers me that 1. she doesn't see the caliber of the situation, that it would be ok to do that. 2. that she is trying to stuff her feelings, acting like and telling eric "**** never happened". 

I want to be able to be there to help and support her, but she will not let me in far enough.
-------------------------
13 March 2012 Tuesday 3:18 PM
still a work in progress (Marriage V 2.0)
I found myself lost in my head for a good portion of the day today,not trusting amanda. she is giving me reasons to trust her,.but her locking down the phone website makes it hard as it seems like shes hiding something.
-------------------------
13 March 2012 Tuesday 8:43 PM
shutt your mouth (Marriage V 2.0)
why the hell couldnt I just leave it alone for just one night!
-------------------------
13 March 2012 Tuesday 11:47 PM
once again (Marriage V 2.0)
here I am once again. home alone with amanda out .

 
-------------------------
14 March 2012 Wednesday 12:44 AM
why can't I stop (Marriage V 2.0)
why can't I stop worrying that Amanda is doing something behind my back. why do I tell amanda what I want, then just give in when she decides what she wants is more important. It makes me feel insecure and worthless. I know its happening but can't stop.

tonight Amanda said I owed her allot after what I did to her I'm the past...this tells new that she still had resentments about how I was and how I treated her when I was in my addiction.
-------------------------
14 March 2012 Wednesday 8:26 AM
Ignorance is bliss? (Marriage V 2.0)
Is it better for me to not know the nature or frequency of Amandas interaction with Eric, our to know it and confront her hoping for a change.
-------------------------
14 March 2012 Wednesday 6:08 PM
being open with her (Marriage V 2.0)
I'm trying to do the "out of sight out of mind thing", but the wounds are still too fresh for me to do that all by myself yet. 

I'm trying to wrap my brain around the idea that you still want to have a relationship (friendship) with him after all thats happened. the only way I can get there is for you to take me there by just being up front and honest with me. after a while I may be able to see it the way you do. its just that every way that I seek an answer to if this could work this way, all I'm presented with are examples of how it can't or won't work, and that scares the **** out of me.

maybe we CAN do it, but only if its together. 

I just want you to know that I'm trying really hard. Because I love you, I am trying to set my better (not selfish) judgment aside about this. but being comfortable with you wanting to persue, repair, and sustain a relationship with Eric is probably the hardest thing I have ever had to try and understand, and do. 
-------------------------
15 March 2012 Thursday 8:50 AM
good night (Marriage V 2.0)
Last night was nice. Amanda brought home ribs, and we watched idol together. She left her phone alone the whole time. it was nice.
-------------------------
15 March 2012 Thursday 10:59 AM
hard to get (Marriage V 2.0)
Trying not to call/txt amanda. going to wait for her to approach me. tougher than I thought, is that bad?
-------------------------
15 March 2012 Thursday 10:18 PM
wii are out (Marriage V 2.0)
Having a good time with amanda. 
-------------------------


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

16 March 2012 Friday 7:14 PM
another good one. (Marriage V 2.0)
last night was great
-------------------------
17 March 2012 Saturday 8:22 AM
nice and quiet (Marriage V 2.0)
last night was nice and quiet. amanda brought home ribs, and we watched our shows. I told her that when shes ready, I'd like to talk to her about Eric; what her position with him is. I also explained that I need this because after all that has happened, I cannot understand how that relationship can work.
-------------------------
17 March 2012 Saturday 8:20 PM
grumpy (Marriage V 2.0)
today I felt myself getting upset about the Eric thing. I told amanda I need to understand it, but we havent been able to talk about it much. For instance I neex to know.

what is she getting out if it.
why is it so important for her to not let it go, even after her counselor told her it would be a good idea.
why does it feel like im not allowed to talk to her for fear of retaliation.
-------------------------
18 March 2012 Sunday 2:23 AM
wtf (Marriage V 2.0)
drunken **** buddies!! what the ****.
-------------------------
18 March 2012 Sunday 11:00 AM
reeling it in. (Marriage V 2.0)
last night I confronted Amanda about that text. I told her that I would not tolerate that anymore. Ive moved from "I can't handle that" to "I won't stand for it". 

Last night I played hard to get, and she pursued me more. We had great sex, and I was in complete control. I would get going, then stop and say "whose ***** is this". When she would say "it's your *****", I would let loose and make her cum. We did this all night, and she came at least 7 or 8 times, it was great. We had some ninja stealth sex this morning as well, and we both came. 

Later I talked with her about the eric factor, and that it needs to stop. also that she needs to stop texting when she's drunk as she just gets herself in trouble.
-------------------------
18 March 2012 Sunday 8:06 PM
held her accountable (Marriage V 2.0)
So while Amanda was at work, I found out that she was talking with Eric, not about last night and that it was a bad idea,.but about that she was gonna have a drink after work, and wanted him to join her. I told her that was NOT appropriate behavior, and that she will need to put an end to it once and for all. no excuses anymore. She simply cannot keep that friendship on the level as she is too emotionally invested in him.
-------------------------
19 March 2012 Monday 11:27 AM
stay or go (Marriage V 2.0)
amanda chose to go out last night. went to moonshine until 2ish. she did text Eric, who didn't reply. we went to bed, she offered sex, I declined.
-------------------------
19 March 2012 Monday 3:10 PM
grumpy (Relaxation)
I'm tired and grouchy today.
-------------------------
19 March 2012 Monday 6:30 PM
:-( (Marriage V 2.0)
this is so hard. I just want it to stop.
-------------------------
19 March 2012 Monday 8:11 PM
what are we doing. (Marriage V 2.0)
Ok now it feels like we have gotten nowhere.
-------------------------
20 March 2012 Tuesday 10:37 AM
line in the sand (Marriage V 2.0)
I gave Amanda an ultimatum this morning...eric/single style "fun" or me and grown up style married life. But she can no longer have both. I can no longer pretend that its ok. 

She seems to want to concede, but the "because you said so" attitude is coming out.
-------------------------
20 March 2012 Tuesday 3:00 PM
compromising my morals (Marriage V 2.0)
What I did by tracking amandas texts was wrong. I am upset at myself that I compromised my morals and chose to do that. I resolve to never do that again.
-------------------------
20 March 2012 Tuesday 6:16 PM
the 180° (Marriage V 2.0)
I am now ready to 180°. today, being the first attempt, I have been turning back and forth. more like a 99.6°, lol
-------------------------
20 March 2012 Tuesday 10:51 PM
silent but (Marriage V 2.0)
I got up to get an apple. Amanda asked if I was malin something. I said yes, even tho I just wanted the apple. I had fun providing for amanda, and doing something selfless for her.
-------------------------
21 March 2012 Wednesday 12:09 PM
and it is done (Marriage V 2.0)
i was going to wait until counseling on Monday because it would have been easier for me to say there. you are a good person, father, and husband. i do love you and you're an important person in my life. it has been a long time since I've had romantic feelings for you.I'm not doing you or me any favors by giving you false hope telling you i want to make it work. i can't keep being unhappy in this relationship to avoid hurting you. i don't want to hurt you and i am remorseful that i did hurt you. i don't have any way to move out right now so were going to have to figure out how to live together until i can move out. you are my best friend.that is what i want. this is going to be hard for both of us, but I'm sure this is how i feel and what i want. my counselor told me it sounded like I'd made my decision a while back and just didn't know how to act on it. i love you and its not fair to you to be with someone who isn't giving you 100% of themselves. i think we will both come out of this stronger and happier in the end. i love you.
--Share Via GO SMS
-------------------------
22 March 2012 Thursday 7:44 PM
180 and the breakdown (Marriage V 2.0)
the short version? yesterday shes done trying to make us work. She stays out til 4 am. wakes me up, we have sex, which I agreed to even tho she said it wouldn't be more than drunk sex for her. I have remorse this morning and tell her it was a mistake. Then I grill her, telling her all this stuff shes doing is not who she is. I tell her this not as a husband, but as a friend that cares about her wellbeing. I tell her that I wouldn't want this "new" person anyway.....she breaks down, agrees with everything I tell her, saying she doesn't want to be that way either. she says she really wants to try. I tell her I won't stand for anything less than real effort, and that I will need to hold her at arms length until I can believe she is serious. no drinking, no out partying/staying out ask hours, no Eric bs, and complete transparency....she agreed, now I wait...


the funny thing is I have an old gf coming over tonight, I told amanda and that it's just friends. amanda said it's ok.

I really love her, and will always be optimistic until there is just no way to be. I believe a lot of happy marriages that make it to 20,30,40 yrs makes it because one or the other don't give up and wash out, even when it feels hopeless. 


also today Amanda told me her counselor called me "almost superhuman" because of the way I handled her telling me she cheated.

I kinda liked hearing that  
-------------------------
22 March 2012 Thursday 9:25 PM
Good friend time. (Marriage V 2.0)
Staci came over for a couple hours. It was good to be able to talk to someone about what I'm going through. We talked about a few thing's including relationships, ghosts, sobriety, parenthood. It felt good, and also validated for me that Amanda is what I want.
-------------------------
23 March 2012 Friday 4:35 PM
Nice (Marriage V 2.0)
Today has been a good regular day.
-------------------------
24 March 2012 Saturday 1:44 PM
nice (Marriage V 2.0)
today has been another nice normal day. last night we had sex and amanda did orgasm, while on top no less.
-------------------------
26 March 2012 Monday 1:48 AM
so far so good. (Marriage V 2.0)
Another good day. We watched netflix stiff for 4 hours after the kids went to bed. we snuggled, and had a good time. More and more this is feeling real. I think we have a real shot at making this work.
-------------------------
27 March 2012 Tuesday 2:17 AM
(Marriage V 2.0)
Went to counseling with Amanda. Out was a good session. I was able to express my feelings and so was she. the subject of alcohol came up and the counselor told her that using alcohol will impact her ability to work on whats been causing her stress, as well as working on her relationship with me. after the meeting, Amanda called me and said she didn't like that I brought up the alchohol subject, because she thinks that now her counselor thinks shes am alcoholic. When she got off work she got a bottle of wine to have with our ribs. I didn't say anything about it.

Also amanda said I smelled nice. I liked that. Out also shows me that she is tring to do what her counselor told us to do; give compliments
-------------------------
27 March 2012 Tuesday 6:22 PM
First night out (Marriage V 2.0)
first night with amanda able to drink. well see how it goes.

-------------------------
28 March 2012 Wednesday 1:55 PM
disclosure and honesty (Marriage V 2.0)
the tab last night was Huge! amanda texted eric, but told me about it:


i have to be honest with you. i sent Eric a text while we were at moonshine last night. just asked him how he was doing. i shouldn't have sent it and i don't even know why i Did. i had no alterior motives, sincerely just wanted to see how he was doing. I'm sorry. out of line. i had a good time with you last night and i wasn't seeking his attention. literally just wondered how he was doing.

i am where i want to be-with you. please don't be upset. i feel very guilty just for sending that innocent text, which is good cuz in the past i wasn't feeling guilty for all the texting. it's getting easier every day to deal with the mistakes I've made and i have you to thank for that. i don't know what id do without you.

I replied:

progress not perfection right? thats all I could ask of you. thanks for telling me instead of me finding out on my own.....just dont do it again...deal? 

Let me guess, ir was later in the evening right?

Amanda;
deal. thanks for not being mad. it was like around 11 i think. wasn't too drunk actually when i sent the text. 100% seriously just wanted to make sure he was doing ok. he's got emotional issues and stuff. just concerned, that's all. i have no desire to hang on to the past. I'd rather work on our future.  

you know why i love you so much?

cuz you are the most compassionate person I've ever met........and you have a big penis. 
-------------------------
29 March 2012 Thursday 7:05 PM
Long day (Marriage V 2.0)
Long day at work today. Wii bowling tonight. kinda hoping Amanda doesn't want to stay our til bar close. I dont think we've ever mutually agreed to leave there before 11, and actually left. I'll play it by ear.
-------------------------
30 March 2012 Friday 12:10 PM
Silently Apprehensive (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda txt me:

so Kaitlyn just reminded me that is one of our cooks 21st birthday today. if i don't get off work too late do you mind if i go out for just a bit? no drinking?

I sent:
21st, eh' I remember that (barely, lol). 

Amanda:
yeah, me too! i figured i could at least go say hey and buy him a shot if it's ok with you?

me:
it's cool with me.

Amanda:
thank you. if i get off work too late i won't go tho.

me:
k



now I wait to see if she followed through. I'm sure it'll be fine. I just gotta let her so she can show me I can trust her.
-------------------------
30 March 2012 Friday 8:55 PM
Good times with the kids (Marriage V 2.0)
Having quality time with the kids while we watch a movie and chit chat as they slowly doze off. Some day they will grow out of this kinda stuff, but I know I never will. <3
-------------------------
30 March 2012 Friday 9:01 PM
Pleasant surprise (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda decided to just come home after work. that was nice that she chose home rather than trying to press her luck driving up north to party with a bunch of youngsters.
-------------------------


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

1 April 2012 Sunday 1:14 PM
Easy fun (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda and I had a good time last night just people watching at moonshine. Thing are going well for us.
-------------------------
1 April 2012 Sunday 9:08 PM
Me time... (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda went out for her "me time" at moonshine. Matt sent her a text saying we were invited to his place for a campfire. Sounds fun. Amanda may go over there. I asked her when shed be home and she said "I dunno, it depends on how much fun I'm having"

I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with her doing that yet.
-------------------------
1 April 2012 Sunday 11:17 PM
so far soo good (Marriage V 2.0)
so I'm not nearly as preoccupied as I thought I would be. I do miss her when shes gone, and when I think about what shes doing when I'm not there, I still get uneasy sometimes. But these says its getting easier to turn it off. Amanda is doing a good job of showing me that she wants to be here instead
-------------------------
2 April 2012 Monday 1:48 AM
I don't like this (Marriage V 2.0)
I sony like it when amanda stays out so late. Plus she has been drinking all night.
-------------------------
2 April 2012 Monday 3:40 AM
Still out!! (Marriage V 2.0)
Its 3:30 am right now, and amanda is still not home. I finally got her to answer her phone, and she was really drunk. I told her to just come home soon.
-------------------------
2 April 2012 Monday 4:22 PM
Counseling was revealing (Marriage V 2.0)
Today amanda shared that she was still holding on to resentments from my using. She also cannot put her finger on what it is about eric that causes her to seek that interaction with him. She could not offer a solid legitimate reason why she would risk her marriage to sustain what amounts to a toxic relationship via txt with the man she had an affair with. The way the counselor put it to her left no good reason to continue. At the end she left with the attitude that us is what she wants most and what she wants to work to sustain.
-------------------------
6 April 2012 Friday 12:26 AM
She didn't choose me/us once again. (Marriage V 2.0)
Not once has she decided to come home with me after wanting to stay out longer. Tonight we made plans to go out to ******s house. We had a sitter til 12am. Amanda was fine with that until she got settled and was having fun. Then she decided to stay out longer. I said we should just go home when we said we would. Since we had a difference of opinion, we argued for about a half hour our so. I even gave her an ultimatum; me or her friends, implying that I meant if she chose her friends that I would ask for a divorce.....she chose her friends! I hope she was calling my bluff and didn't actually mean it. she was willing to divorce me to hang out with her friends for a couple more hours. Of course I was bluffing, but I was trying to prove a point.

Man this is all so difficult for me,.especially when it all seems so easy for amanda.

What the hell am I supposed to do stand up for what I want/need and to get amanda to be ok with it.
-------------------------
6 April 2012 Friday 3:23 AM
Alone again (Marriage V 2.0)
Here I sit alone in our bed at 3:30 am...again.
-------------------------
6 April 2012 Friday 8:35 AM
All nighter (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda didn't come home last night.
-------------------------
6 April 2012 Friday 3:50 PM
Apology and denial (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda showed remorse for her actions. I told her how I felt. She said she doesn't know why the feelings that she wants the single lifestyle are coming back. She is also noticing that the alcohol thing is an issue, but still wants to try moderation....she is not ready to admit powerlessness.
-------------------------
7 April 2012 Saturday 9:33 PM
No worries (Marriage V 2.0)
I have not been worrying about things at all today. Also amanda sent me a text this morning just to say have a good day at work and I love you. That was nice of her. She hadn't done that in a long time.
-------------------------
8 April 2012 Sunday 5:50 PM
Over thinking (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda told me that she plans on stopping at moonshine tomorrow after work for their industry night. I immediately got worried that she was going to get drunk and stay there til bar close. She said she was going to give herself a three drunk limit, so I shouldn't worry.
-------------------------
8 April 2012 Sunday 11:49 PM
Little progress (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda told me that she feels bored, with this/us. She said that she wants us, but that she is not sexually attracted to me...that that is the only thing that is giving her conflict. she has been thinking about what the counselor said about an open marriage.
-------------------------
9 April 2012 Monday 5:08 PM
Good session (Marriage V 2.0)
Counseling was good. Amanda was asking about ways she could do to get back to feeling sexual toward me. That made me feel good that she wants to get that back with me instead of just jumping ship. Counselor said we'd need to work on resentments she is holding, it seems there are allot. She brought up the open marriage thing, but the counselor doesn't advise it.

Amanda said 2 hours and 3 drinks/beer at moonshine, and that would be it.
-------------------------
9 April 2012 Monday 8:12 PM
Going out tonight (Marriage V 2.0)
So instead of a couple hours and a few beers, amanda said that brianna told her that tonight was the only night she could go out....so amanda ifs going to stay out until bar close, and be home around 1-1:30. She did day she was going to moderate, which is about a drink per hour.

I was kind of upset that she is staying out so late, but I am happy to hear that she will moderate, and also come home when she said she would.
-------------------------
10 April 2012 Tuesday 1:11 AM
Good vibrations (Marriage V 2.0)
we talked for 3 hours. ;about me her, food, and high school.. We reminissed about the time we were going out during high school.
-------------------------
11 April 2012 Wednesday 4:18 AM
The end? I intend for it to be the beginning. (Marriage V 2.0)
I can manifest what I want. What I want if for amanda to be able to be at peace with herself,.and then want to be at peace with me.
-------------------------
11 April 2012 Wednesday 4:25 PM
Soak time (Marriage V 2.0)
I'm good....well more good than before, and closer to all the way good, whatever that looks like.
-------------------------
11 April 2012 Wednesday 10:03 PM
Back to life,.back to reality. (Marriage V 2.0)
Very simply Amy your sister, this person that I thought I knew, has become something I do not recognize. 

We have discovered through counseling that she has been secretly hiding away what, after a brief glimpse inside herself, is looking like a phenomenal amount of resentment toward me herself and her place in life. She has buried all of this emotional baggage for so long that she can not even identify the source herself, and by her actions it seems that she is not willing to put in the effort to find resolve with herself, and work toward "learning to be happy here again" (her words). 

This person that she has become since her parents moved, while on the surface looks strong, newly rebuilt, attractive, and free.....is not the person I get to see when her guard is let down.

Nobody else sees the real her; drinking to hide....in spades, so much so that I have had to put our children in the car at 3 am to pick her up because she is incredibly drunk and cannot get home on her own.

I have stayed up all night, trying to contact her, only to have no recourse but to call in sick to work because there is nobody but me to tend to our children. Her response is a short "fell asleep, sorry" txt message....and me again going to bring her home, to this reality that she is apparently unable and/or unwilling to find her way back to.


Amy, all I have ever wanted was for Amanda to be happy...firstly with herself, then the rest of her life. I have systematically discovered, processed, forgiven myself, and made amends to others for the wake of destruction I created, and the resulting pain it has caused to the people around me...especially Amanda. I have been showing her with my actions that I mean what I say and that it is real.

She is doing the exact opposite; stuffing, covering, avoiding, and rebelling against this thing that shed is struggling with. 

She has asked me for an open marriage, because she doesn't desire me sexually. She would rather seek and partake in that desire elsewhere rather than do the work required to rebuild that here together with me. Seeing how matter of fact she is about that is frankly unsettling, and knowing that at this pont she doesn't give a **** is heartbreaking for me. 

She wants to retain the benefits of married life, but also the excitement and freedom of single life. I cannot accept that.

This is the 3rd time she left me, and I don't have the strength to keep playing this revolving door game with her. 

These days I have a hard time looking at her because I see this beautiful woman that I have been with for 12 years that I can no longer have. For the first time in as long as I can remember I see her spending alot of time and effort making herself beautiful, which I think is great for her....but she its not doing it to look good for me. This is the most painful thing I have ever had to endure.
-------------------------
12 April 2012 Thursday 11:36 AM
Late night (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda got home at 5am... Simon had a tummy ache and she didnt take him to school today. She was sleeping when I left.
-------------------------
12 April 2012 Thursday 11:37 AM
Down day (Marriage V 2.0)
Trying to stay positive, and change my thought pattern/intention, but out is very hard.
-------------------------
12 April 2012 Thursday 3:27 PM
Seeking my company (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda asked me if I want to go wii bowling. At first she said she wanted to come home and rest.


I said yes...is this a date?
-------------------------
12 April 2012 Thursday 11:56 PM
Space (Marriage V 2.0)
Amanda said on the way home that this is what she needs...space, and baby steps. I think I can do that, our at least I will try.
-------------------------
13 April 2012 Friday 1:23 PM
Tired (Marriage V 2.0)
Super tired
-------------------------
13 April 2012 Friday 5:57 PM
Isolated (Marriage V 2.0)
Feeling bummy, and not very social. In a car with 3 girls, 2 have been divorced, and mine is considering it. I'm out numbered.
-------------------------
13 April 2012 Friday 10:16 PM
Good show (Marriage V 2.0)
The concert was a good time. Kinda digging Kelley, but....

Amanda is being social, but it totally feels like when you are out with friends and you secretly like one but she doesn't know, or knows and doesn't care.

All I know is that it hurts and I'm lonely.
-------------------------
14 April 2012 Saturday 9:02 AM
Eric again (Marriage V 2.0)
She is texting eric again.
-------------------------
14 April 2012 Saturday 5:45 PM
Clarify (Marriage V 2.0)
Talked with Amanda about us a little. I think part of her wants to work on resentments so she can start to see me clearly. I told her that I want to be there to do whatever I can to help her with that. I am still here because I believe that we could have a chance if shes willing to do the maintenance with me. 

I know what I am today and what I have to offer a woman. I would like to be able to offer that to her instead if someone else.
-------------------------


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

OK so there you have it, my progressive hell of 2012. At this point im in a place where im more ready to move on than before, but there is enough of me that wants to stay that I dont know what to do. all I know is that this is EXHAUSTING and I dont know how to be single so its scary.



Thanks again for taking the time to read the whole thing before replying.


now let er rip and give me some perspective.


-Rob


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I think you would have to be masochist to remain with her. How much humiliation and disrespect are you willing to endure? Are you going to wait until she gives you an STD? If the roles were reversed do you think she would accept this? She has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Wow, I just read my life for the last 13 years.

Let me guess the kids aren't doing to good in school?

Money is tight?

House is a mess?

Time to start playing hard bell with her, it will be tough b/c you let her get away with so much crap.

Until she stops drinking your screwed, I'm suprised she hasn't gotten a DUI yet.

IMHO, its not really worth divorcing your W b/c of eric or her friends.....Its worth divorcing your wife b/c she's an alcholic.

Moderation is not an option any more. One drink, two drinks what ever, it always turns out the same...at least once or twice a week it turns out the same.

Me and my wife drink but we do it together ( a boundry), your wife has absoulutly no boundries.


Come on, stop saying yes to her, everytime you say yes she gets into trouble. Man up and stop being a yes man, she will continue to manage you until you die or she get solber.

Be patient is fine when it towards a positive thing but your just getting walked on! What I mean is being patient while she is going through her withdrawls and 12 step program is good b/c it will lead to something good. But being patient with your wife while she continues with bad behaviors is worthless.

INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING AND EXPECTING A CHANGE!!!!


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

thanks for the feedback. Im getting there myself. It is harder than I thought it would be. I know i am worth more than putting up with this, but I have to just break the seal and 180 and stay there!!

Because I am one, I also know that she is an alchoholic. Because I am one, I also know that she wont stop until she decides it is worth it.....at this point, for her Im not worth it to her.

[email protected]%K why do women have to be so complicated!!


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Because we let them. Or more correctly we tolorate it!

I did the 180 for 13 years, except for the sex....now thats the hardest part!

Seriously though you have to be willing to let her go, she will continue. See years from now she will be doing the same crap with different friends and a different guy, the then question will be howmany years and how many men. 

Trust me you don't want to go down that road. Make the changes for your self......NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
It will be her choice to follow you or stay behind.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

There seemed to be a recurring theme of "space and baby steps"She dangles that carrot,then smacks you with the stick harder.That's a hell of your own choosing.I wish I could offer you some words of advice but I can't identify with you as I would have been gone a long time ago.Good luck.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Quit doing the housework, man. After that, file for divorce.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Man, I totally see what you guys are saying, and frankly I agree......the hard part is the execution. This woman was there for me when nobody else would be, and saw me through the hell that was my bottom and the climb out. She mothered my children, and for the longest time was my voice of reason.....

....then its like she snapped.....

I lived in a blur of drugs and alcohol for 16 years (I'm 34), and now sober, she is all I know about what love feels like.

I don't want to live in this revolving door hell, and I don't want to abandon her to a hell she can't realize but is living either. 


I guess maybe I'm just afraid to be alone.


----------



## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

Your wife is an alcoholic. You can't even begin to repair your marriage until she gets rehab. And in healthy marriages one spouse does not hang out at bars without the other...multiple times a week. Good luck to you man. Get that woman help before she kills someone on the road!!

_-- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Dump and run. She will not end well on her chosen path. She is drinking heavy, and that takes a hard physical toll. Let me guess smokes too? That ages a person. Oh, she likes to cheat and sleep around, that burns the soul.

Your Amanda is burning through her life and is chosing to turn herself into what will be a bitter burned out old before her time woman with lots of health problems.

And there's nothing you can do save her. You can save you and your kids however.

Diviorce her. Go for full custody,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

You know, you have a good point, and I agree this is not a healthy marriage. As much as I want to work with her to repair, she wants to "find out what she wants".

The ****ed up thing is I'm sitting here at the bar with her now drinking redbulll and sprite. (I know, I know). I want to go and she wants to drink....

....so I am taking the car and driving home, she can walk, or get a cab.

At counseling on monday I'm going to tell her that I'm done. Either get in the damn boat and roll up your sleeves or shove off, and all that that entails (file papers, find somewhere else to live, etc...)


I'll let you all know how that pans out...and if my balls suck up and I puss out, you all have my permission to whack me up side the head.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

nexgen said:


> Man, I totally see what you guys are saying, and frankly I agree......the hard part is the execution. This woman was there for me when nobody else would be, and saw me through the hell that was my bottom and the climb out. She mothered my children, and for the longest time was my voice of reason.....
> 
> ....then its like she snapped.....
> 
> ...


If you've really gotten it together, you won't stay alone for long.

Ever seen an old movie called "Days of Wine and Roses?"


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

No but I will have to find and watch it.


Another question? Do I let her know this thread exists? Would it even do any bit of good?

(why the hell am I even asking, sheesh I've got it bad don't I)


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

No, right now you need your own support system.

Ask the bartender to stop serving her, tell him she's drunk.

He/She then become liable once the report is made.

Then sit back a see what happens, you just might be able to take her home. 

I personally wouldn't leave her alone.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your going to stay in the marriage but leave her alone at a bar?

My point is....hell IDK what my point is but start spilling her drinks.

Dude don't leave her, but I guess it all up to how much pain you can take....being with her or being at home and she's w/ eric.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> If you've really gotten it together, you won't stay alone for long.
> 
> Ever seen an old movie called "Days of Wine and Roses?"


Funny,I thought of the same thing.One of Jack Lemmon's best movies to me,and Lee Remick was just as good.Kind of catch the essence of it in this thread as well.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

So get this, I've been trying to 180 today, including here. I went out to have a cig, when I came back in, she was paying the tab and she said shes coming home with me.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Thats no bad, at least you didn't have to keep spilling her drinks.LOL

I glad it worked out.

Would you have realy left her, knowing what you now know about eric?


----------



## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

It is a good thing for you to journal.

I hope you aren't using your wife's actual name _and posting it here_.

Three in a marriage won't work. 

If my wife were acting like yours is, there would be D papers served tomorrow.

If my wife were involved with someone else like "Amanda" is, (that isn't her real name, right?) is, there would be D papers served.

If my wife didn't come home for a night without a credible, verifiable reason, there would be D papers served.

You are being a Nice Guy. That is not a good thing to be.

Consider this a great big E-2X4. You are being a major chump.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

wah, you have a nice wife who cares for her children and husband like a piece of sh*t. What is wrong with you man, better you seek help for identifying what allowed you to tolerate this BS so long. Kick her out of your home let she have her single life, at least you can put that time going behind her on your children and on your own.

First kick her out of the house and issue her with D papers. She is tooooo much spoiled to be a wife or a mother. She is not worthy of your life. Dont allow her to have her cake and eat it too.

Wah i dont know how can a man tolerate this kind of behavior and disrespect. Dont you have any self respect? If you dont respect yourself then who will?


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Well I'm done being a chump. Get this, we got home, I saw her phone light up, and took a look....heres the parts I can remember, this is from tonight:

Wife: what are you doing?
Eric: drunk
Wife: so I guess I'll see you later then.
Wife: Besides, I gotta get my sexy panties from you.
Wife: I'm going back out after rob takes the sitter home.


Then I started to shake, my heart started to physically hurt...I almost lost my marbles.

I took the sitter home, came home and confronted her......	Made her pack a bag and get out.


And she did.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

She's a serial cheater. The other man will inevitably throw her under the bus and she'll come crawling back. Please don't tell me you're going to give her a third chance.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Time to do a hard 180. This will protect your emotions and give you the strength to emotionaly distance your self from her. 

No more sex, its her tool that seems to get you sucked back in each time.

She had her chances its time for damage control expose this to family.

Another thing, who is this eric guy, does he have a GF? if not expose it to his family and let everyone know that there son, brother, cusin is sleeping with a married women. 

Look up cheatersvill.com and expose the both of them.

You are not alone here brother, many here went or are going through the same sh!t.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Complexity said:


> She's a serial cheater. The other man will inevitably throw her under the bus and she'll come crawling back. Please don't tell me you're going to give her a third chance.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


When OM throe her under the bus she will definitely come back to you, never ever allow her to manipulate you again with her assurance and tears, if you do so she will find some one in few weeks behind your back. she is not worthy of that. see an attorney today and find your options and full custody of your children. enough is enough.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Back in the day when I was a drunk @ss hole I would taken the kid over to the OM house, and gave OM a taste of reality.

Do not let her back in, she will come home tomorow and think you are the same old chump. Get up early and change the locks.

To night pack her crap up and take it to eric's. throw the kids in the truck and bring all her crap over there and just put it on his front lawn.


----------



## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

You might want to waver soon. Don't. You made your call, and it was the right call. 

Hold your head high. She made her bed. Now she needs to lie in it.

That text alone told you everything you would ever want to know, even if you didn't know the back story. 

No booze--Exercise instead

Execute the 180. Go dark. Expose far and wide.

Meet with a good lawyer ASAP.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

the guy said:


> Back in the day when I was a drunk @ss hole I would taken the kid over to the OM house, and gave OM a taste of reality.
> 
> Do not let her back in, she will come home tomorow and think you are the same old chump. Get up early and change the locks.
> 
> To night pack her crap up and take it to eric's. throught the kids in the truck and bring all her crap over there and just put it on his front lawn.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Let she have the consequences of her disrespect and serial cheating on your . Change the locks, throw her stuffs at his gate. Call her and tell her you dumped her things at his home. Let him take care of her, sure he will throw her under the bus on that movement itself.

Expose her to all the friends and family.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think the nail in the coffin is if infact she went over to eric's.
With her fragile marriage she will go to her lovers house, that in its self says alot about how remorseful she realy is.

If she had any sence of what she is doing as being wrong she should go to her parents or her girl friends house. Boy is that wishfull thinking.


----------



## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

Add an STD test to the list of things to do


----------



## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Ugh. Triggering me a bit when you describe her drunken behavior. Let her GO. You'll feel sorry for her, even guilty for "putting her in a tough spot", but it's all bs. She has to figure this out and sober up. She has no idea what she's doing, and the problem is she doesn't care. She needs a dose of reality. Your one remaining obligation to her is to give her that dose. No more. You can't fix her at this point, because she's cut you out of her life by openly cheating and disrespecting you. No more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Pack her junk into garbage bags and drive it overland drop it on Eric's lawn.

Seriously ditch this wh0re
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

nexgen said:


> OK so there you have it, my progressive hell of 2012. At this point im in a place where im more ready to move on than before, but there is enough of me that wants to stay that I dont know what to do. all I know is that this is EXHAUSTING and I dont know how to be single so its scary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You must be exhusted, how do you continue with such a person?? 11 years of marriage, kids, is that the two main reasons?

Your kids definately do not need to be going through such a roller coaster every other day, it just is not the right thing to do, as a parent you need to focus on your children (But in your journal, you never mention you children- its like they dont exists!!)

You say are yourself are an alcoholic, from what you learned about the disease, dont you understand you are the world's biggest ENABLER? How can you sit there and feed into her disease? Isnt the tough love what she needs, dont you need a little self respect?

You guys eat a lot of ribs!!!


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

I think the faster you make a stand and stop giving in to her unacceptable behavior, she will hit the bottom and hopefully reality will set in. Not for your marriage to again work, but her her own sake. You must not let her come back!


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She spends the night using you to get her warmed up for Eric, then ditches you to get banged by him.

Come on, your self esteem will sky rocket when you dump her junk outside and change the locks tomorrow. Btw cut off her access to money ASAP. Let Eroc pay for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> She spends the night using you to get her warmed up for Eric, then ditches you to get banged by him.
> 
> Come on, your self esteem will sky rocket when you dump her junk outside and change the locks tomorrow. Btw cut off her access to money ASAP. Let Eroc pay for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


This is not something you are doing to her, it was her choice and she earned it by her cheating and treating her husband like a POS.


----------



## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

As far as your fear of being alone, let me clue you in on something buddy *YOU ALREADY ARE ALONE*.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You tried the softline approach and it failed miserably. Now it is time to try the hardline approach and let her face the consequences of her actions *alone*. No more husband to pay for her lifestyle, let the OM do it. You have the kids well being to concentrate on, they need at least one responsible adult in their lives to look after them.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You've had a tough nite, I hope you come back for some support.
Even combat vets can't compare to the pain of this kind of betrayal.


----------



## Vanton68 (Feb 5, 2012)

chaos said:


> As far as your fear of being alone, let me clue you in on something buddy *YOU ALREADY ARE ALONE*.


With all of the deep thinking, self-reflection and evaluation that I have always done. That NEVER crossed my mind. It is so simple and uncomplicated that I overlooked it. Thank you, I feel so strange after reading this, like there are unexplored options to consider.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I'm still here guys. She came back over this morning to see the kids and get more stuff. She still tried to convince me to cohabitate..I said no. I find myself still trying to convince her that what she is doing is a mistake.....this seems harder than getting sober.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

nexgen said:


> I'm still here guys. She came back over this morning to see the kids and get more stuff. She still tried to convince me to cohabitate..I said no. I find myself still trying to convince her that what she is doing is a mistake.....this seems harder than getting sober.


Until you truly stop letting her back in - she has no reason to stop. None at all, because she gets fully away with it.

So why are you letting her back in after being with him all night?


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I don't know....but I do know I'm getting papers tomorrow. She days this us as much her house as mine.....so now I need some practical advise on what my next steps should be.

I have some locks, and can easily change them. Are there any legal ramifications I need to worry about? The deed is in both our name, and the kids are here. I dint want to shoot myself in the foot by denying her access to her stuff and the kids.

I would want her to have equal custody of the kids if I knew she was prepared to be responsible about it....right now I don't feel that way, and would want to fight for custody should it come to that. The thingo is that I can't see anything on my plate that would be a deal breaker and doing want to start to give her any ammo by doing anything rash.

So school me on how to win this fight without compromising my morals.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Now you are seeing the true her


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Contact a divorce attorney ASAP. Inform him/her of her alcoholism and any documented neglect of the children. The attorney may be able to advise you what steps you should take to protect yourself and your kids from her. Her leaving the house is good because in most courts, the parent who leaves is considered to abandoned the family and has a harder time obtaining physical custody of the kids. Again contact a divorce attorney tomorrow morning.

Click on my link below my signature and it will take you to other links. Click on the link Dads divorce and it will take you to a site that has tons of information to help you best prepare to protect your rights as a father before, during and after a divorce.


----------



## misticli (Oct 28, 2011)

I read most of all your posts above and here mo

1- Amanda needs to realize she is an alcoholic and get help. There is 0% room for compromise on that.
2- You are enabling her do what she is doing. She gets a free pass. She either agrees to work it out and cuts out this bs, or she doesn't. You cannot give someone like this a middle road. No its not okay to go out without your husband all the time until the wee hours of the mornin getting smashed. Its discusting to ask your husband to take a picture of your boobs to send to someone else. Its disrepectful to not leave earlier with your husband from an evening with friends.
3- You need to start meaning what you say and and bluffing. Do the 180 and start taking back control of your life.
4- Why are you waiting for her to decide what is going to happen with your life? You are a kind hearted person and deserve so much better than this. Make sure she knows that and that someone else would be happy to have you.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Although I think it's a shame that so many marriages end up this way, that I am now just a number in that statistic, I am so grateful that there is a place like this that lost souls can come to and find strength, be told what we need (not want) to hear, and start the journey back out of this hell that was not of our choosing.


Thanks for the support, as I have none here in person.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

If you have an ounce of self respect left in you how can you permit her to stay with you for your rest of your? When you thrown her out she went straight to OM and banged him all night and came to you for cohabitation. How can a wife disrespect her husband like this? When she come crawling back, never ever allow her to be a part of your life. She is too much poison.

Its time for you to spit on her face and ask her to get lost from your face for ever. Issue her with D papers as soon as possible and start running to mountain as far away as possible from her.

Did you exposed her affair?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

when you talk to a lawyer, make sure you look at a moral clause that protects the kids. Gettting this order that will prevent OM from being around your kids.
It can be emotionally confussing to have OM around so soon after you guys split. They are surely struggling with the seperation they don't need to see mommys new friend on top of there mom.

Call work and tell them the sitch, ask for some time off.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you packed the rest of her stuff? 

This is a must, it will show her the reality of whats going on.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Hopefully you serving her with divorce papers will also help her hit rock bottom and make her seek out professional counseling to control her alcoholism before it destroys her life and that of your children.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

:iagree:

Don't be so quick to accomidate your WW, you can soften up latter down the road, but for now see the lawyer, pack her things, and get a moral clause order for the kids.

The sooner she feels the reality and consequences of her choices the better off you, her and the kids will be. Right now this tough love will be hard b/c you really doen't want to be spitefull, but in the same breath you have to have the tough love to get her to see the bottom of the barrel sooner then later.



It funny how you can tell OM doesn't really want her at his place, hence the cohabitation comment.

Now with that being said here is another way to push this closer to the bottom of the barrel, bring everything she owns, cloths, furniture, and household goods and bring them over to eric's. He will flip out and again putting your wife that much closer to reality.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Ok, so we were supposed to go to counseling today, and she balked. She said that she didn't want the counselor to get mad at her for lying. I said that if she wanted to get anything out if counseling that she needs to be as honest about herself as she can be so the counselor has something real to work with to try to help her. I told her I am past trying to use counseling as a way to get back in, as I know she doesn't want that right now. That being said I told her that I believe she KNOWS the things she is doing are wrong, and selfish and she didn't want to go because that would mean that she would have to start to admit that to herself and to another person....shed have to make it real.


So I canceled the appointment, and left the house. I went to a lawyer and setup an appointment for tomorrow to start the divorce process. I hear there is a 3k retainer for this woman, but she is really good, and has been good with other men.

...Then I went to confront the OM at his work, which by the way my father manages. I very simply told him "you can have her I'm done, but be careful because you are involved in an adulturous relationship and that is immoral and illegal." (technically it's illegal in my state, but rarely if ever enforced as it is a no-fault divorce state) Then I said "You better watch yourself" and walked away with my head held high as he stared bewildered at me. I dint know if it was the right thing to do but sure felt good.

Then on the way home I stopped at the OM's parents place of business, where he stays with them in their upstairs apartment on occasion....the one I described in my journal.

I told them their son has been having an affair with my wife, and that at least on one occasion it has happened here, above their store. I felt it was something they would want to know is happening in their home/business. I told them that we are getting a divorce, and that me telling them was a part of the cleansing I needed to do.


When I got home up told her I confronted him, and as expected she flipped out.... I told her shes upset because I am starting to expose her fantasy and that is making it more real. I said you made your bed, now you have to lie in it. I told her my goal is not to be malicious...it never was or will be, but what did she expect...I have to stand up for myself, and this was one way that I am doing that. Then I asked her if she was upset because of how he might react. 
She said yes.
I reminded her that he tried to end it more than once, for him it's a notch in his belt, but for her it's all she had left of this desire, and that was why she pursued him so persistently after multiple rejections.

Then I told her if he wants to walk away, thats his decision and she should have thought of soul this before she put me or him in this position. I've already walked away, and it's no skin off his back to do the same.

She really didn't want to hear that because that would mean she, SHE burned all her bridges and would be faced with the prospect if being alone.

whew, and its only 6 pm.

I did find our that it is illegal for me to change the locks on the house or deny her access until she is off the deed/mortgage. When I see the lawyer tomorrow I can see what options there are. Until then I have been playing the game sad it we're.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Yeah, it hurts, But you did the right thing.And you did it extremely well. Although i would be tempted to puch the OM atleast once. 

But something tells me that you will fall for lies and tears again. Read your journal again. Somewhere, somehow you put her on a pedestal. Maybe it is the loyalty for helping you through your darkest times. You taking her back was pattern almost as bad as her relapsing back to her alcohol. You need go through the whole process of separating for both of you.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I agree, and I know I have to try very hard to unlearn that pattern. The way she has been acting since I gave her a D-Day on saturday is making it easier and easier for me to shave down that pedestal, grow a pair, and stop settling for less.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You are dooing a great job with exposure.

Your WW reaction is typical, 

Does your dad know? How about her side of the family?

Do you think the OM parent are supportive with the marriage?

Were is she staying...OM apt.?


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Shes couch hopping at the moment. She has not told her parents.

Yes my dad knows, but I told him I will handle it and for him to not interfere unless I ask him to.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

So get this, she actually asked me to help her continue with him!! I figured it was just easier to copy/paste, read on.


Her:
make it right so he isn't afraid to talk to me. make sure he knows there's no drama.


Me:
Amanda I'm not a mean, or cold person. You know that right?


Her:
Make it right
You know his number right.


Me:
The last time I did that for you (wisconsin), I stood my ground with him, then for you I helped him feel comfortable coming back to you, because I thought that nobility would help to bring you back to me....but instead he never left.

I can't in good concience be involved with enabling you to continue to do something that has hurt me so bad for so long. I know you dont like that stance, but it is something I have to do. On some level you must understand that.

If you are important to him, he will listen to you, and if not then I dont know what to say.


Her:
Whatever


Me:
Besides, there IS drama already. You just aren't willing to admit that.


Her:
of course there's drama, but there didn't need to be more


Me:
I didn't create more. That man made his own choice, I didn't make it for him. If you don't like the choice he made maybe you should ask him why it is so easy for him to walk away like he has before. Then ask yourself why a woman like you would put up with that from anyone.


Then she didn't reply....


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WTF??? She is asking you to make it right? Laugh at her face. She doesn't even need explanations. Why are you giving her one. Just ignore such requests. Next time she will ask you to buy protection when they are to have sex. You don't want to be malicious but you don't have to be so nice and accommodating. 

And expose to her parents. She is beyond hope now. She needs to hit rock bottom for her own good.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I cannot imagine the ridiculousness of the whole scenario. She wants you, her husband to make everything right with the guy she is cheating on you with. It would be hilarious only if it weren't so sad. You are very close to being cuckolded TBH.

Edit: She does not give a f*ck about you. Too bad you have kids with her


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

MAKE IT RIGHT WITH THE OTHER MAN!!!!!!!

Tell her to go...............SHINE SHOES!

She needs to be institutionalized for her own safety.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Expose to her parents, let them know you are looking for there support in the marriage and until she stops all contact with her affair partner (AP) then you will continue on your current path.

They may or may not care so keep it sort and just finish up by letting them now it is her choice right now to leave her panties with other men while still married.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't know how you kept from caving her head in. 

Expose to her parents and do a hard 180. Do not engage in any more insane conversations like that. But if you insist on doing so, keep a VAR on you whenever she talks to you. Then play it back for her parents. They need to know how f*cked up there daughter is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Nexgen,

Man am I glad you found your balls. No battered spouse should tolerate the level of disrespect that your wayward wife is showing you and your marriage.

You have gotten great advice from the gang.

Do yourself a favor and show your journal to your attorney.

Your wife not only has mental issues but her drinking is way out of control.

*You need to show your wife divorce papers. Put a little yellow postit note on it saying "Here is my answer to the open marriage you proposed"!!!*
Your life will get so much better. You do not need a friend nor a wife like that in your life.

Tim


----------



## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

Outstanding, nexgen!!!

Keep it up.

Do not cave. Keep growing your nuts back!

Follow your lawyer's advice.

She doesn't like the taste she is getting of her future- having to live with the ugly mess she has created for herself. Tough ****. She created it, she needs to live with it. Do not bail her out in any way. Stay hard on everything.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

nexgen, I am curious but has this alcohol problem taken a toll on her looks? And does she work full time?(Considering the number of times she skipped taking your son to school)


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm assuming she was drinking when she asked this? She most face the consequences, when she burns out of couches she will turn to her fokes and tell them you kicked her out.

Focus on damage control. Start recording your conversations, and continue to documant.

Focus on the prize and today the prize is do for your kids and your self, once you fix this then you can worry about your wife. 

Sure she needs help but right now you have to pull tightly put the oxygen mask on you 1st, take a deep breath and then you can put it on your kids, and if theres enough oxygen left in the mask you can offer it to you STBXW before the preverbal plane crashes.

I hope you understand the analogy?


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Exposé to her parents immediately.

Can your father fire the OM or give him bathroom duty?

As four idiot wife, seriously? Your only response should have been to ask her if she really elected her husband to help make the sleaze ball she is cheating with happy? 

When h3ll freezes over would have worked too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

nexgen this woman has absolutley no respect for you by asking this. You shouldn't have even engaged her in that conversation. 

Can someone give him the No More Mr Nice Guy link


----------



## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

i'm with shaggy! have your dad can his azz.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

hey man, just stop talking to her period unless it's about the kids. from reading the lil of you journal that I could stomach, there is not much talking or recording about the kids, it's all about you and her, when it should be about them. YOU have codependency issues, I understand this, you like me are alkies. but, she is now using your pass to keep you codep. I like that you are manning up, but the talking with her about your relationship is not helping her or you, keep it about the kids, tell her parents, take the journal to your lawyer, and get her out of the house. why ? for the kids, protect them from her drunken behaviour, that's what you should be working on with the lawyer 1st. get him to get an emergency hearing, to keep her away from them. If you have to, threaten to have the bartender and others sepeaed. I mean, how do you think this all looks to them


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

nexgen said:


> Her:
> make it right so he isn't afraid to talk to me. make sure he knows there's no drama.
> 
> 
> ...


:wtf:

Seriously.

:wtf:

That right there sums up your entire story. It speaks volumes about what she thinks of you and how little respect she has for you or your marriage. You've enabled her and enabled her. You actually helped him feel comfortable to come back to your WW? Are you out of your freaking mind? 










Is this for real? I hope you truly want to stop living as a willing cuckold. Your kids should be your priority. This calls for a hard 180 from you. Stop contacting her. Go dark.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Why she is treating you like a cuckold husband who is supposed to make her way clear for banging OM? It may be because you enabled her cheating earlier and she expect the same cuckold doormat husband now. Kick her ass out of your house. Expose her and him at their respective work place. Expose her to her family else she will make you a villain who kicked his innocent wife for having a friendship with OM. A jelous controlling husband. so expose before she lies to all.


----------



## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm sorry. you should file for divorce, go 180 and see what she does. Unfortunately, I don't think you have any shot at success and I would just follow through with the divorce.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Maybe it's just me, but isn't a husband SUPPOSED to c0ckblock another man away from his wife? What is so noble about waiting for your WW while she is banging an OM? This blows my mind.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Yes, and thats why I confronted him, and will not do the same thing I did before. Thats also why I'm going to see a lawyer in a few hours. Thats also why she is couch hopping or whatever it is shes doing. I'm letting her come over here and see the kids because its against the law for me to deny her access to her own house until the courts decree it, or I file a restraining order.

The 180 is in effect. Better late than never I guess. The balls have dropped.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

nexgen said:


> The 180 is in effect. Better late than never I guess. *The balls have dropped*.


...hopefully back into your scrotum where they belong....


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

nexgen said:


> Yes, and thats why I confronted him, and will not do the same thing I did before. Thats also why I'm going to see a lawyer in a few hours. Thats also why she is couch hopping or whatever it is shes doing. I'm letting her come over here and see the kids because its against the law for me to deny her access to her own house until the courts decree it, or I file a restraining order.
> 
> The 180 is in effect. Better late than never I guess. The balls have dropped.


Good start! :smthumbup:


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Don't stop until you see consistent actions from her side. Not just words or promises but consistent actions. 

Note: Your father know about Eric?


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Yes they have landed firmly in my scrote.


Yes my dad knows about him


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Since I kicked her out, she had been going along with it. I have been arguing alot, but she keeps returning. Today I saw a lawyer about divorce. I got some things off my chest, and the lawyer agrees with me. She also said it sounds like she had a mental health issue...this is the second time I have heard this.

Here is my stance today:
-I dont want to be malicious, but I do want to protect our children, and my stance.

-I want us to be able to respectably divvy up our household items without needing a mediator. This includes getting to a place where it is legal for me to change the locks as I will then be the only one on the mortgage.

-I want us to be able to come to an agreement about the best interest of our children. This is their home, and I want that to stay that way. I want her to be able to have as much time with them as she wants as I believe they need that. That being said, I would need her to prove that she can be trusted to make responsible decisions about them before I could feel comfortable with them being with her unsupervised for any length of time. This would include her being willing to take an alchohol/substance abuse assesment, then acting accordingly based on the outcome of that assesment. If she really doesnt have a problem as she states then this will be a none issue for her and seeing a pass on that assesment will allow me to better trust her judgement.

-I WILL enlist the help of an attorney if I get the impression that she doesnt want to be responsible and play fair.

She is willing to let me determine the outcome. This shows me yet another reason why she has no intention on changing whatsoever.

So be it....I'm out. I'm worth way more than everything in this tragic tale that has become my life played out in this thread.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

nexgen said:


> -I WILL enlist the help of an attorney if I get the impression that she doesnt want to be responsible and play fair.


NO! NO! NO! Get the advice of an attorney NOW! Have them draw up legal custody papers that will stand up in court. Don't even consider that she will play fair. You have to plan for the worst possible scenario. For the kids.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She has been playing fair in the least up to now.

She is using you and cheating.

Yet you think she will suddenly develop and conscience and play fair and nice - if you play fair and nice.

You wouldn't let a friend sell you BS like that, why are you accepting it from yourself?

She will continue to cheat, and she will try to get everything out of you - the kids, the house, money, etc.

Stop playing softball and negotiating hoping she will be kind to you. SHE HASN'T BEEN and SHE WON'T BE.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

her actions only confirm that she was stringing you along with no real intentions towards reconciling. You were right in what you did


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks warlock. 

Shaggy I know what you're saying and I agree. I appreciate that you and everyone else is here to help me see the reality of my situation. 

Being a recovering alcoholic/addict, people like us learn that it is not safe for us to take the notion of anger and resentment lightly as for us it can very easily consume us to destruction if left unchecked. Some of you may understand this. That being said, I am not broken...only aware of my , MY limits today. I'm on the same page as you, believe me. Its just that I need to get there in a way that is safe for me.

I don't know how this works. I've never been here before. I have no frame of reference. I'm trying my best to get back to me. I'm starting to do the right things I think, I'm starting to act based on my feelings and what I want/need instead of just reacting to hers. Small moves... I'm taking me back from her. I'm still fresh into this...being force fed this pain, and wanting to run from it, to reclaim my sense of self. This is all so intense. I'm getting there... Thanks all for the words of encouragement.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Heres one if many things I need to relearn. 

I sit here having kicked her out. She had been couch hopping since I did that on saturday, but today she took a bunch of clothes and stuff to her sisters apartment as she is going to stay there. I displayed that I am no longer willing to settle or enable and I stuck to it even when she tried to ask about staying... Its real, and I feel good that I stood up for myself and did that... 


I got my kids to bed, like I do every night.
I sat down on my couch to watch some tv, like I do every night....

...but now I'm alone, I go to bed alone and I wake up alone...

I'm still not used to that, and it is weird...not good, not bad, just different and unfamiliar..


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good for you bro. Godspeed on your journey.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

n-
You put the kids to bed 4-5 time a week alone waiting for her to come home, went to bed alone 3-4 times a week anyway...waiting for her to come home, you woke up alone 1-2 times a week any way.......waiting for her to come home. Now you go to bed and wake up with alot more self respect. That, I think, is worth its wieght in gold.

Hang in there and stay strong, most likely she's over a Moonshines crying in her drink wondering why life keeps giving her lemons, wants things to change, but keeps doing the same thing over and over again.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

nexgen said:


> Heres one if many things I need to relearn.
> 
> I sit here having kicked her out. She had been couch hopping since I did that on saturday, but today she took a bunch of clothes and stuff to her sisters apartment as she is going to stay there. I displayed that I am no longer willing to settle or enable and I stuck to it even when she tried to ask about staying... Its real, and I feel good that I stood up for myself and did that...
> 
> ...


Hold strong friend and it will get better. You know you're doing the right thing even though it hurts. You and your kids will be better off. Thoughts are with you.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

It will get better but you have still yet to see the worst of it. It will be hell for sometime.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Did you tell her sister why WW need to leave the marital home? Did you ask your sister for her support in the marriage?

Or will she just enable your WW to continue her A and drinking?

Maybe its best to just to detach and move on!!!!


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Her sister is on board. She knows all about the situation, and she is on my side.

Just before I wrote this, I was having one of those ptsd kind of situations. You know that overwhelming wave of sadness and despair you get from time to time. I came on here to check before bed, and read the kind words above and it cheered me up. Thanks again guys for the moral support, I needed that.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

PM any one of us if you need to cry or moan. We all are used to soggy shoulders.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your welcome and take care of your self, that good you get some sleep, make sure you eat.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

It's normal to feel those emotions, atleast you have a heart, unlike your wife. Take some comfort in that I suppose.

It will pass.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Go take a dump and rid yourself of the biggest turd of all, stbxw.


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

nexgen said:


> Ok, so we were supposed to go to counseling today, and she balked. She said that she didn't want the counselor to get mad at her for lying. I said that if she wanted to get anything out if counseling that she needs to be as honest about herself as she can be so the counselor has something real to work with to try to help her. I told her I am past trying to use counseling as a way to get back in, as I know she doesn't want that right now. That being said I told her that I believe she KNOWS the things she is doing are wrong, and selfish and she didn't want to go because that would mean that she would have to start to admit that to herself and to another person....shed have to make it real.
> 
> 
> So I canceled the appointment, and left the house. I went to a lawyer and setup an appointment for tomorrow to start the divorce process. I hear there is a 3k retainer for this woman, but she is really good, and has been good with other men.
> ...


She doesnt want the help and she doesnt want the marraige either, stop making any appointments for counseling, just makes you look more needy.

Also, why are you talking to her about Eric anymore, like you are counseling her? Leave her alone with that regard.

You mentioned, she flipped out, as you have mentioned this behavior of hers in many of your journal posts... please think about your children being around suck a reckless woman. If at all possible, removed yourself and your kids from her (since it is illegal do deny her access to house) she is poisoning them, and you.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Considering the self destruction she is going through, she will hit the rock bottom sooner or later. This Eric guy will sooner or later get tired of her **** and dump her. Then what?


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

nexgen said:


> So get this, she actually asked me to help her continue with him!! I figured it was just easier to copy/paste, read on.
> 
> 
> Her:
> ...


this woman takes the cake for the most delusional, incoheriant WW


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

No, HerHusband's wife is the reigning queen of b*tches, but this gal could be her Lady in Waiting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

nexgen said:


> Heres one if many things I need to relearn.
> 
> I sit here having kicked her out. She had been couch hopping since I did that on saturday, but today she took a bunch of clothes and stuff to her sisters apartment as she is going to stay there. I displayed that I am no longer willing to settle or enable and I stuck to it even when she tried to ask about staying... Its real, and I feel good that I stood up for myself and did that...
> 
> ...


I understand this must be foriegn and unusual, but it must be better than waiting until 2am in the morning for a drunk woman to come home...


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

nexgen - you actually have something new in your life: self respect. She had stolen that from you, but your now going to be getting that back.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

After getting my kids to bed, my oldest (5 yrs old) came down to the landing. Here was our conversation, it's one we have almost every night....but now it's different:

Daddy, wheres mom?
She's at work honey.
Will you send her up when she gets home?

(Then after a long pause deciding what to say)

Yes...I will honey.

My heart sank to the floor.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Go to the doctor, he can prescribe some meds that will help level out the ups and downs. Everyone who has tried this agrees its the thing to do, especially the ones who put it off for awhile.

The best thing you can do is find a counselor who can help withh ptsd.

Next is hit the barbells etc. Make s you feel better mentally and physically.

Make sure to collect evidence of her drinking addiction, that should help with custody.

Remember not to trust anything she says.

Good luck.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Today has been a good day. The first day back to work since I booted her last saturday. It's good for me to take my mind off of things, and concentrate on work. I can feel and do some ' normal' stuff. Today I have been focusing on ME and it is paying off. At least for today I don't feel like I'm held hostage "in a glass case of emotion" (Ron Burgundy quote, lol)

P.s. She texted me last night from her sisters apartment at around 11:45 pm alone saying "it's lonely here".... I didn't take the bate.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Has your WW made any attempt do better her self or she continuing her self destructive behavior?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

nexgen said:


> P.s. She texted me last night from her sisters apartment at around 11:45 pm alone saying "it's lonely here".... I didn't take the bate.


She's trying to manipulate you and make you feel bad. Ignore her. 

Remember, ignore all communication that is not directly related to household business or the kids. 

Stay dark.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

The guy.

Yes, she is not drinking, at least for the last few days. We'll see how that goes. Since I put the kibosh on the Eric thing he won't respond to her, and I don't see an indication that she is trying to fill that void elsewhere...the big thing is I don't really care either way at this point.

bandit, 

Yes I know she is trying to manipulate me with that text, and thats why I didnt bite, even though part of me wanted to. I'm trying to do this 180 as best as I can today.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

nexgen said:


> The guy.
> 
> Yes, she is not drinking, at least for the last few days. We'll see how that goes. Since I put the kibosh on the Eric thing he won't respond to her, and I don't see an indication that she is trying to fill that void elsewhere...the big thing is I don't really care either way at this point.
> 
> ...


The 180 is the toughest thing you will ever do in your life. But you have to stay strong and stay focused on it for your own emotional and mental well being. Read it through every day and commit the rules to memory. 

Make sure you are getting enough sleep, eating healthy nutritious foods, and getting plenty of cardio exercise.

The stress you are undergoing will take a huge toll on your health if you do not combat it. Weight lifting, martial arts, boxing and exertive exercise helps to move all the toxins out of your system. You'll feel better and start looking better, and if you and the wife split you'll be fit and in shape to attract a new woman. Its a win win deal.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

nexgen said:


> Today has been a good day. The first day back to work since I booted her last saturday. It's good for me to take my mind off of things, and concentrate on work. I can feel and do some ' normal' stuff. Today I have been focusing on ME and it is paying off. At least for today I don't feel like I'm held hostage "in a glass case of emotion" (Ron Burgundy quote, lol)
> 
> P.s. She texted me last night from her sisters apartment at around 11:45 pm alone saying "it's lonely here".... I didn't take the bate.


Actually the 180 (that I have access to) does not sugest cutting off comunication. It does show what kind of communication to make. If she is staying home and not drinking, thats great and should be encouraged.

Be brief, friendly, cheerful, strong etc. There is an extremely important reason for this. Do not be angry (because you have moved on and aren't that concerned) judgemental, nasty, argumentative. If she starts arguing excuse yourselfandsay goodbye.

The 180 seems easy but you have to get the underlying psychology behind it.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think quitting for a few days is *not *enough. She should get herself checked into rehab or AA


Edit :


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I agree warlock. she has been told on many occasions by her doctor, and counselor that it would be a good idea to refrain from drinking while trying to figure out what she wants, needs, doesn't want, etc...

She obviously didn't listen, and doesn't care anyway

Oh and now she has started smoking pot again. I know because she told me she did, and that now she feels that recreational use is ok with her. Before all this, she was 100% against that idea. She also said that she would never do it in the house our around the kids.....but I just found some on my kitchen floor next to the dishwasher!


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Keep her out of your house nex. she is endangering your kids being high around them. You may have to become a very nasty person, just to force her to get help for herself. You may have to threaten to have her arrested, or have a RO issued, if she does'nt get help, because you don't want her on your property drunk or high. I know it seem extreme, but you may truly be saving her life. So the next time she comes around drunk, tell her to leave or you will call the cops.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

So she has turned her back on her own morals and ethics. Typical downward slide for a wayward. You have not seen the worst yet, so brace yourself. My STBXW is doing the same thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> So she has turned her back on her own morals and ethics. Typical downward slide for a wayward. You have not seen the worst yet, so brace yourself. My STBXW is doing the same thing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it hasn't already been suggested carry a VAR on you at all times.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Ask her why she does'nt love her kids enough to try to save her own life. Ask when did she become such a selfess person that she puts herself before her kids. But, let her know you are not talking about you and her getting back together, but about her, taking care of herself for her kids sakes. YOU WORK the 180, that will show her that you are moving on and only interested for your kids sake. AND PLZZZZ, tell her what your 5 yrs old said. It's time to go dirty, regardless whether you an her make it back o each other. It's for the kids an her now.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Sorry I haven't powered up in a few days. I have been working the 180, and the "it's not just me anymore" angle. I am making her fully aware that I can no longer tolerate her behavior and if there is not some sport of progress papers will be served and my priority will be my, and our childrens well being. I am doing much better at not trying to reason with her, it's hard, but I'm getting there.

Yesterday I let go and basically bickered at her, she rebelled as I should have expected. Today I have chosen little to no contact with her......and I can tell that it is having an effect. She came to me and asked if we could talk after she's off work. I said that would be ok, but that I am VERY weary and my bullsh1t radar is turned waaay up so if she wants to broach the subject of how to get back to one with me, she will have to try VERY HARD to prove to me that it is not a ruse.

I'm going to see how that talk goes because I do still love her, and if it is possible for her to come back down off the crazy train I would want her back.

I'll let you know how it goes. if it becomes am epic fail on me then you all have my permission to tell me you told me so. I am much stronger, and have a tougher shell because of all this, but deep inside I am still a hopeless romantic.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

nexgen said:


> Sorry I haven't powered up in a few days. I have been working the 180, and the "it's not just me anymore" angle. I am making her fully aware that I can no longer tolerate her behavior and if there is not some sport of progress papers will be served and my priority will be my, and our childrens well being. I am doing much better at not trying to reason with her, it's hard, but I'm getting there.
> 
> Yesterday I let go and basically bickered at her, she rebelled as I should have expected. Today I have chosen little to no contact with her......and I can tell that it is having an effect. She came to me and asked if we could talk after she's off work. I said that would be ok, but that I am VERY weary and my bullsh1t radar is turned waaay up so if she wants to broach the subject of how to get back to one with me, she will have to try VERY HARD to prove to me that it is not a ruse.
> 
> ...


We all want to give the ones we love the benefit of the doubt. Just stay calm, don't argue and listen to what she says. But remember that actions are what counts and if all she can offer is words it won't be enough.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks Beowulf, and I agree. I will do the best I can.

I no longer want to be part of the problem, I want to be part of the solution.:thumbup:


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

nexgen said:


> Sorry I haven't powered up in a few days. I have been working the 180, and the "it's not just me anymore" angle. I am making her fully aware that I can no longer tolerate her behavior and if there is not some sport of progress papers will be served and my priority will be my, and our childrens well being. I am doing much better at not trying to reason with her, it's hard, but I'm getting there.
> 
> Yesterday I let go and basically bickered at her, she rebelled as I should have expected. Today I have chosen little to no contact with her......and I can tell that it is having an effect. She came to me and asked if we could talk after she's off work. I said that would be ok, but that I am VERY weary and my bullsh1t radar is turned waaay up so if she wants to broach the subject of how to get back to one with me, she will have to try VERY HARD to prove to me that it is not a ruse.
> 
> ...


Its good you are giving her more chances to talk openly, how can this be a fail for you if its just a discussion, and you havent agreed on anything yet. Don't blame yourself for anything and be firm with her. best of luck


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

She came home last night after work. We ended up not having our talk, she got cold feet. Instead we hung out together. She brought a salad home from work, and we shared that while watching our shows.

She has been making an effort to be here, it doesnt feel like she is just waiting to leave again. That being said I am still doing my own thing. At this point it seems like we both want the same thing but we are both a little nervous.

from some of the things we have talked about do far, she says she no longer has this desire to seek intimacy/PA elsewhere. She has also told me she wants to work back towards us. To start we are setting aside time for ourselves, with each other, and with the kids. We have 2 date nights a week, then we each have "me" time nights, and also family night for everyone.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are doing the same mistake again. Remember, the OM dumped her. Implement hardcore 180 unless she shows some consistent changes over a period of time. Rehab for alcoholism should no even be an argument. You ate setting yourself for failure if you do the same mistakes again


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Warlock is right. Don't take the bait. She is setting you up for an a$s kicking down the road. She just needs a place to crash and is appeasing you. 

Stay on the 180 and protect yourself. No dates or lovey-dovey until she is going to AA 3x a week for a long period, staying sober, and abstaining from e-mails and texting. She has to earn her way back to you. Don't sell yourself so cheaply.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I am taking this movement VERY cautiously. I am still working things on the premise that I do not want to let her back into me until I can be sure it's real. I can no longer settle for jumping all in every time she "cries wolf". Through all of this and the advice I get here, I am becoming more aware. I also have been able to go through a good portion of the grieving process, and I do accept that if nothing changes I will be a single father. 


I don't want to just close my eyes and jump all in just because I dont want to be alone. Today I am a little more comfortable with the idea of being single.

There was an email that I sent her last friday, it started by me wanting to forward her an email about stuffing resentments about your spouse. She had said, and learned in counseling that she has never actually forgiven me for the way I was before I got sober. We have learned that that has a big influence on why she feels like it's "her turn", because in a way I held her hostage during my drinking/using days. Those of you in recovery, or are with someone in recovery will understand that this dynamic exists, and if not tended to can have negative repercussions.

She has never gone to alano to share with others that are in her position, and she has never taken it upon herself to learn more about my disease/recovery and how it affects our relationship.

So for the last 4 years I have been treating my disease, but she has not been doing the maintenance that could help her understand, forgive, and grow.

Today we are both aware that that is a big part of why this is happening. We both also know that it is not an excuse, but a possible source. More importantly that her recent actions are no less improper because of it. The things that she has been doing are NOT acceptable regardless of why she did/does them. She also knows this.

The thing is that knowing they exist, and having the courage to start doing something about them are two completely different animals. Last night was going to be the first of what will be a long journey back to one. I believe she can start to open up, and it will only happen if she wants to do it. progress not perfection as they say.

In short, I want to continue to 180, and I am aware that firmer behavior on my part will be more effective. Again progress not perfection.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Almost forgot. When she gets off work I'm going out and about with my brother to shoot some pool, and socialize. It's my turn for some "me time".

I told her I don't know what time I'll be home....


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What about rehab for her drinking problems? You did see this pattern before, right? She wants to be with you and loves you for a few days and then she regresses again. The turn around is surprisingly short. I am still not sure that the date like activities are good at this point. She is slowly reeling you back into the equation you guys shared before the blowup. Just remember, this is the woman that left the night to stay with Eric(and most likely had sex ) when you kicked her out. And much worse, she wanted you to fix things between them. How humiliating!!

She has to do a lot more than proclaiming that she no longer has any need for EA/PA outside the marriage. You heard these words before, remember?



> She has also told me she wants to work back towards us. To start we are setting aside time for ourselves, with each other, and with the kids. We have 2 date nights a week, then we each have "me" time nights, and also family night for everyone.


I think this can wait until you are sure of her changes


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

nexgen said:


> Almost forgot. When she gets off work I'm going out and about with my brother to shoot some pool, and socialize. It's my turn for some "me time".
> 
> I told her I don't know what time I'll be home....


Both of you should know exactly who youare with, where you are and when you will be home at ALL times. 

GNO/BNO = death to relationships From the first one around 1980 to the last one 2 years ago, all these situations except one, have ended in divorce among my friends and aquaitances.

But you already know this.

I know of one newlywed nailed in a parking lot in a ONS. Do you think she planned that when she left her husband at home?

You are kidding yourself.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Good points Warlock, I guss I didn't think of it like that but it makes perfect sense. I'm really glad this place is here because st least in here you guys do a good job of holding each other accountable and reminding each other to see the forest through the trees.

I am proceeding with caution, and need LOTS of stuff to change before I call it good enough.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Nex, if you guys want date nights, make them AA meeting and icecream afterward. No wii bowling or anywhere there is liquor. Being out like old times will trigger her, and you can judge how much she wants change, by how big an argument she makes for going to an old drinking place after the meeting. Either way, the 180 is your shield and buckler. So keep on working it.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Both of you should know exactly who youare with, where you are and when you will be home at ALL times.
> 
> GNO/BNO = death to relationships From the first one around 1980 to the last one 2 years ago, all these situations except one, have ended in divorce among my friends and aquaitances.
> 
> ...


I have seen the same thing happen time and time again with GNO/BNO. Somehow it seems to happen more with GNO when they go to a bar or club. So watch out with the "me time" stuff.

Also transparency works both ways. You should not only have told her who you are going with and where you were going, but when to expect you back home. This is just common courtesy and respect for the others feelings. 180 is one thing but this is not part of it. You have to be willing to do the things you want from her to show her the way.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I know of one newlywed nailed in a parking lot in a ONS. Do you think she planned that when she left her husband at home?


Wow, did the marriage survive?


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

:facepalm:

Typical WS rug sweeping tactic and nextgen is falling for it. She brought home salad and they watched tv to avoid the talk. Oh well. You can lead a horse to water....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

the guy said:


> Back in the day when I was a drunk @ss hole I would taken the kid over to the OM house, and gave OM a taste of reality.
> 
> Do not let her back in, she will come home tomorow and think you are the same old chump. Get up early and change the locks.
> 
> To night pack her crap up and take it to eric's. throw the kids in the truck and bring all her crap over there and just put it on his front lawn.


Sometimes its right to be an a$$hole. this sounds like a good wakeup


----------



## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

nexgen said:


> Since I kicked her out, she had been going along with it. I have been arguing alot, but she keeps returning. Today I saw a lawyer about divorce. I got some things off my chest, and the lawyer agrees with me. She also said it sounds like she had a mental health issue...this is the second time I have heard this.
> 
> Here is my stance today:
> -I dont want to be malicious, but I do want to protect our children, and my stance.
> ...


You good sir, are an *EDITED*

1_She is out of the house. When she shows up unannounced, you call the police.

2_Her mental health, sexual health or whatever ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. DO NOT THINK ABOUT THESE.
HER problems, NOT yours.

3_You NEED a mediator because you seem unable to separate your self from her emotionally. Read what I quoted you saying as evidence.

4_Her being able to have as much contact with the kids doesnt mean that it is good for them. See #3.


----------



## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

nexgen said:


> Today has been a good day. The first day back to work since I booted her last saturday. It's good for me to take my mind off of things, and concentrate on work. I can feel and do some ' normal' stuff. Today I have been focusing on ME and it is paying off. At least for today I don't feel like I'm held hostage "in a glass case of emotion" (Ron Burgundy quote, lol)
> 
> P.s. She texted me last night from her sisters apartment at around 11:45 pm alone saying "it's lonely here".... I didn't take the bate.


block her number, report to police as harassment. if she wants to talk her lawyer can do it


----------



## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

OP doesnt want to listen to any good advice given IMHO.

The 180 goal is not to get back with her.

Your goal is to change her and get back with her.

It seems like secretly enjoy baby sitting the kids while shes out getting nailed. If you do, its cool.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Did you even read the posts? And do you realize that your posts ae inflammatory and abusive to the OP. If you have a point, there is a better way to tell him about it.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

She was banging Eric infront of you, she was not even ready to quit meeting and banging eric, now both of you want to go for dates. REALLY....... What consequences does she had for disrespecting you and treating you like a POS? What you did to prevent her repeating the same behavior in few weeks or months? 

What she did to earn your forgiveness other than bringing salad from work and watching TV together? or was it because she said she dont feel she need intimacy/PA from another male? She told you alot of things earlier also, she also assured you that Eric is only a friend, then what happened?

What happened to your 180 and staying strong? Are you only this much strong? You did many things wrong in your life and this is going to be one among that. When you are going to learn this?

What you did to deal with her alcoholism and unacceptable behaviors?

Try to answer these questions then you will know where you stands in R.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Wow, did the marriage survive?


IDK We didn't even know she was married until a month after it happened. We thought it was weird she wouldn't give the dude her phone number. Then we ran into one of her ex boyfriends that said she had been married at the time. Supposedly, she was so drunk she fell down in the parking lot.

The first regular GNO I was aware of turned into a divorce wihtin two months of both of them going out separately while the other baby sat 3 kids. Moma found a new man. When my buddy came into work, I knew what happened by looking at his face. I warned him what I thought could happen but he thought it was going to be wonderful just being able to get out by himself. This was around 1980.


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

nexgen, you are going to get trampled on again, after all that your wife has done to you, again you are not responding and being firm in any consequences. "she said she doesnt have the need for physical/EA inimacy with anyone else now"???? WTF, work out why she even did! dont rug sweep and just sit there with this toxic woman and watch your "shows"... you are setting yourself up for failure with this person, and you will begin to be in the same boat as before.


----------



## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

From 180: no date nights, act as if you're moving on with your life, no asking for reassurances, don't believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see...

It's okay to listen and engage if she wants to discuss the relationship, but she avoided the talk she suggested altogether. Why? Because it sucks to talk about such things. And because she knows you'll allow her to avoid it for the time being. 

I know how tempting it is to ignore the elephant in the room and just watch TV like old times. But you're spinning your wheels unless she's actually making an effort to repair the damage done.

Good luck, I know you've got quite a balancing act going on right now, but it seems you should be more firm in your 180 and not jump back into trying to make it work. She doesn't deserve that...yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

n-
D-day for me was 2yrs-2month-2wks-20 hours ago,and the R my wife is working on has been efffective so far.She has done everything to help me heal, and as far as the marriage we are both working hard on keeping it healthy.

Now back to her R......after I confronted her we spend the next six months dealing with the affair, in what I mean is every single topic, discussion, conversation during breakfast, linch, dinner, and dates nights were all about her adultory.

It all boiled down to me dealing with infidelity with or with out her so she stuck around and dealth with the consequence. I most admit I made the talks comfortable with out judgement...very painful stuff to hear about this guy and that guy,the big ones , the small ones, but at the end of the day it takes fire to make steel and it was something I wanted. (part of the "I'll do anything" fWW said)

I felt I need to blow this crap out of the water, along with talks came the books, the IC and MC, the works. I wanted to open up this can of worms and if there was any sweeping being done it was going to be in one big pile and thrown up in the air to be examined.

The great part was my fWW was not willing but excepted what I felt was needed. as the week went on and with the right tools that were taught to both of us by counseling, she become more willing and in fact initiated the discussions. This is when things started coming together, her initation to talk about her adultory.

At the end of the day no matter how this works out for you the point is to open up this can of worms, and I mean WIDE open. if the both of you can face this crap head on and take by the horns you have a damb good chance.

Rare as my case is, the typical case involves the wayward to regress and avoid the issue, all the while the betrayed pushs away from the wayward. Often both spouse try to work on the marriage and don't face the infidely. All the salads in the world won't matter in the long run.

In short, my advice for both of you, face the adultory head on, then work on the marriage.

Until this elephent get out of the room ..........if you know what I mean?


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I'm trying the best I can today. Slowly but surely I'm taking more steps forward than backward. The more I (re)learn how to take care of me, and believe in myself, the easier it becomes for me judge my worth/happiness based on what I want instead of filtering that through the impression she gives me.

I went from 16-30 lost in my disease, then got sober with her in. my life. I spent a long time holding unhealthy boundaries with her because it was easier for me to just let her drive the boat rather than me have to turn down my dependence on alcohol/drugs. I have learned that this is a common occurence in relationships where untreated addiction is present. Another thing that I have learned is that on some level emotional and mental maturity slows down considerably in that environment as well.

Once I got sober and began to slowly come back to life so to speak, i/we did not do alot to change that dynamic of dependance, it was just familiar and comfortable for us. I have been warned many a time about the repercussions of leaving a dynamic like that unattended, but I never listened, and on some level I didn't want to change it because I didn't want, or know how to. What I am realizing is that I have little to no experience with being truly independent as an adult. I do believe that I can do it, it's just a little spooky sometimes.

**This is not an excuse for my or my wifes behavior, rather it is me trying to work through why I am responding the way I am in this situation. I do appreciate everyones feedback and support.**

regardless of how this pans out; D or R, the one thing I do know is that this whole experience has turned out to be a wakeup call and a learning opportunity for me.


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

nexgen, you went to counseling, you learned the terms co-dependant and enabler. These characteristics are toxic in YOUR recovery. Why are you not pushing her to get help in her addictions?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

HP, You can push and guide towards, but until WW takes her own steps, whats the point?

We can only hope the one that learns the most out of all this is Mrs. nexgen.

She had some good sh!t going for her, but it was her looking for greener feilds and her validation issues that f^cked it all up.

My chick can push all she want , I ain't stopping the drinking!

I hope you see the analogy?


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Exactly, whats the point. I've held on long enough. 

After her continually getting upset that I hold her accountable for her inappropriate behavior.

After the countless times she gets mad at me for telling her how much her behavior hurts me.

After all the times she throws my addiction in my face, but clamming up when I remind her that every single day, over 1000 of them, I give myself to her to process her resentments however she needs to, but she is too afraid to face them with me and finally move on with our lives together.

After her arguing with me via sms while I was at work all day today, culminating in this dialog:

_________________
Me:
Can you take some time and try and explain what you want from me, and what you want out of this.....whatever it is I will try to give it to you.

Thats all I've ever wanted to do.

Her:
I've told you what I wanted. You don't want it.

Me:
Remind me

Her:
Open marriage

!!!!!!!!
_______________

Thats when I walked in the house, served her divorce papers, and walked out of the house to go to my AA meeting.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

Great job NG, and don't ever look back. You did the right thing.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

at least I know I'm doing this for the right reasons. I'm not running away, for once im standing up for myself and whats right.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good for you N! Stay on the 180 and treat her like furniture from now on. Keep us posted as to how it goes.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

How much time before the D finalizes?


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Damn good for you. She should be happy that's as open as it gets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Sounds like you have a solid plan to save yourself, which is what your focus must be at this time. She's told you what she wants, which is not what you want. Time to go. Good luck.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Now that's the definition of manning up.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She's lost. Her brain is fried. I sure give you my sympathies.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Nexgen

Now you are free.

Free to get your mind and body truly free from negative influences in your life.

Your wife is just one of those negative influences.

I truly wish you all the best on your journey.

You took a courageous step today. I am confident you will find a partner worthy of sharing this journey that has the same values as you.

Stay strong.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

wow after you threw her out, she spent time living with someone else, just got done explaining, when you let him come back home, "that she didnt need any EA/PA intamacy with anyone else" she reverts back so immediately to her old ways?! Good job, please dont even look back, she is completely out of touch with reality. Just worry about your children.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

How are you keeping up Nex?


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words all. You guys here are literally the only people I can turn to for support. My parents lived in this town but they might as well be on mars. My stbxw's parents kinda became my surrogate parents, they new me better than my own do. They moved to hawaii last fall.

I know this isn't permanent, but I'm so emotionally confused right now. I feel good that I stood up for myself, it was liberating. On the other hand it still hurts that it didn't seem to phase her. The ****ty part is that I love her, but I have to do something to save myself as this is just sucking out every last but of strength I have left.

She is going to move on with her life not much different than it is now, just with so different last name. I feel like I'm going to be left with absolutely nothing.

I did get on antidepressants, so that will help once it builds up in my system. That will help. I also need to get back into counseling.

I'm going to try to figure out how to be alone for a while otherwise im just going to end up latching onto the next best thing and this whole roller cosaster is bound to happen to me all over again.

I'll keep you all posted, and thanks for thinking of me.

-Rob


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Stay close to us...were your Band of Brothers (and Sisters ).


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

:thumbup:


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Today It hurts soooo bad I can't stand it. All I want to do is sleep.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Get out of the house. Go do something for yourself. Hit the gym and work out, go to a nightclub and flirt with the ladies, go buy some new clothes... Just quit moping!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

nexgen: I was thinking about you yesterday, wondering what happened to you and stbxw. Congrats. You're free. You did so much to save the marriage. You should feel proud of that. I felt the same sense of liberation when I separated from x and now on the road to divorce. Now at least you can feel like you are doing whats right for you. It will hurt but willl pass.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

How are you holding up nex?


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I'm doing better. Gets good days and bad ones, today is one of the good ones.

Been focusing more on myself and my two kids (3 and 5) lately. I've started exercising again, and eating more regularly. I have also noticed that those random feeling out of control panic attacks dont happen regularly anymore. I'm doing things for me that makes me happy rather than doing things because I hope it makes her happy. 

I think the big thing is that I'm starting to accept the fact that none of my stressing, moping, asking, puppy dog behavior is going to make her want to change, only she can do that so I may as well just focus my energy on making me better. Another thing is that since shifting my focus off of her and back to me I am now seeing things about her that frankly turn me off, or cause me to lose respect for her. I mean theres alot there that I would probably never want to take out for a second our third date if we had just met each other.

She is still living here, and ironically seems to be gravitating back in this direction lately. Currently we are pretty much cohabiting out of financial necessity, and because we havent finished discussing the ins and outs of the separation. For instance I would need a drug/alchohol assessment, psyche exam, and whatever treatment or recovery might be needed in order for me to feel comfortable allowing joint physical and legal custody. 

Maybe get seeing me be so matter of fact about the divorce papers, and what I see in her that I wouldn't want to be a part of, has caused her to reevaluate which side of the fence really has the greener grass......Or maybe shes just trying to use a different tactic to seem more involved hoping I'll play ball. Well....


.....I WON'T!.....

She would have to spend a considerable amount of time and energy showing me that she wants this. Shed have to go full on transparent, quit drinking/using, quit partying, focus on the family, and show real remorse for what she's done to us in the name of self discovery. Even then it would take quite a while for me to feel comfortable letting my guard down and letting her back in. All I know is that I have told her over and over that I'm running out off time, and energy trying to absorb all this, waiting for her to figure out what the hell she is looking for. Well I'm spent, and the wheels are in motion.


Its a damn shame too, because while she days she loves me, but is not in love with me, I love her, and am still in love with her...its just that I know she knows what I'm capable of giving her, but she doesn't want
It anymore...

Now its HER loss, not mine.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Great stuff Nex, keep your chin up, I'm rooting for you brother.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Why cant you say it on her face "i love you but i am not in love with you?

She still had that option of coming back to you, when nothing works for her. Remove that option from her list.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So she is living at home but going out to have sex with Eric still? Are you still sharing money with her? Talking to her?

I thought you had made serious progress, but she's managed to get you to accept being back to the status quo. She's got a safe warm place live, and complete freedom to go out and cheat at will.

What are you planning on doing to end this situation?

For staters cut off all money you are giving her. If a kid needs sonething, you buy it. Los dump all alcohol in the house. Make the place dry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

Nexgen, I have read your story and notes. Also alot of other post. I think you were wise to keep an accurate journal. Mr. Smart (compliment), and also commend you for your valiant efforts to save your marriage. You surely loved your wife with great devotion. Love is a two way street, give and take, and share and share, but not with a third party. With your makeup, I am sure you will succeed in finding Mrs. Right one day. I commend you having the strength to take the big move and get past this abuse. I hope you arrive where you deserve to be, with someone who loves you and are both happily in love. Best of luck and look for love or don't... love will find You! Keep a vigil and do not return to this situation. Reconciliation should not be an option!

Did I read wrong. Is she with you again??? My wife became transparent after I had reason to suspect her of an affair. The symptoms were there, but no dead proof. If ever she becomes 'stealth' again, I'm gone... no more words. She knows I am serious... dead serious!!! Good luck!


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> So she is living at home but going out to have sex with Eric still? Are you still sharing money with her? Talking to her?
> 
> REALLY..................
> 
> ...


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I am keeping things in perspective best I can. I know where I'm at with this. I also know what my tolerance level is as well. Yes she is still in the house, and we are cohabitating. Yes I see her behavior shifting slowly away from that rebellion from the beginning of all this and back into perspective little by little. Today, although I may not agree with the way she is acting, she is being honest about her intentions today.

No she is not sleeping with Eric, and has had contact with him only once since I exposed him. I know because I check.

NO I'm not a pushover, just trying to be patient enough and aware enough not to miss the glimmers of hope and change that may come.

NO I will not wait forever, but I made some vows before her and god, and those vows matter ALOT to me.



Read the text conversation I had with her earlier today. back story, she was out partyng and got home around 4 am still drunk:

______________________________
Her:
I need to stop drinking for a while. I fell back asleep and didn't get Simon to school......
________________________________
Me:
!! Yeah, I think that would be a good idea, smoking too probably. I've noticed it has progressively been getting deeper and deeper, but I have been working on not nagging, or whatever. Also staying out so late isn't helping either. But you gotta stick to it. gotta want it instead of feeling like its a chore. Remember that the last couple times you stopped it didnt last long cause you weren't really doing it for you.

You/we can still be social and have fun, with not drinking and with closing the night at a normal time.

You can do it, and feel good about it. I believe in you  

(I can help if you want me to. I'll let you decide) 

________________________________ 
Her:
I don't want to stop but I need to. At least to just get a grip on reality again. And it's definitely the drinking, not the smoking. The smoking just makes me laugh. The drinking makes me irresponsible. Gotta reset my off switch. For real this time. 

________________________________ 
Me:
You know I love you right?

________________________________ 
Her:
I know

________________________________ 
Me:
And you know that sometimes the things I say to you I say not because I think I'm smarter or want to hear myself talk, but because I care about your wellbeing, I care about seeing you happy.....right? 

________________________________ 
Her:
Yeah..

________________________________ 
Me:
...I know that you like the laughing and silly part of smoking, but something to consider is that whatever it is that you are filling up by drinking and smoking is going to be there wether you quit one or both. If you stop one, then the other one will try to take up the slack.. Your own words "I don't want to stop" is the red flag.

Thats why my drinking got so much worse at the end. I didnt want to put everything down, so I picked what I thought would be the easiest to sustain....and we know how that turned out.

I know you are not me, but I also know that you have been dealing with alot of internal conflict and have been unsure of the direction you are headed. 

________________________________ 
Her:
I know. The other day you called me a sociopath. I looked it up to see what it was exactly. It kind of scared me. It was like reading about my own personality.

________________________________ 
Me:
Yeah spooky sort of.
I think its important to realize the caliber of some of this stuff. You're not broken, but I think that maybe its time for you to talk and me to listen....baby steps out from under the grip of your doppelganger.

 better or worse, sickness and health.....right hon?


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

I love it how she only writes you a few words but you write back paragraphs.

Stop it.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She does the 180 better than you N.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Here is the rest of that post, it was too long.

________________________________ 
Her:
Yes
Can you skip your meeting tonight and stay home with me? 

________________________________ 
Me:
Yes I will stay home with you tonight. Maybe we can start talking about things.

________________________________ 
Her:
Thank you



So.....can patience really pay off? That was one of the questions in my thread title. Who knows, we'll see what comes of this. What I do know is that I meant what I said earlier, that I am still in love with her. I also meant that I am shifting my energy back to myself, to get back to making myself happy again.

Hi my name is Rob, and I am a recovering addict/alcoholic....

For me seeing a person struggle and reach out, I feel a need to offer my help wether it is received our not. This is the essence of step 12, and something I choose to do whenever the opportunity presents itself...For me helping others in need is crucial to my recovery. This situation is now a blurry combination of roles and I know that some of you may not understand why I am choosing to handle this the way I am. What does matter is that I and my higher power know and feel ok with this.

I have told her that for me I know if something is real, and worth working for if my head, heart, and gut all agree on it. if theres conflict between any of them, then its not time or not right. Today all three of them agree on this course I have chosen.

I also believe that when I ask god for patience, strength, bravery, etc... He does not give me those things, rather he gives me opportunities to practice using those things I am asking for.


So....going back over this thread and the great feedback I get here, I can answer the questions I posed in the thread title.

-Am I nuts? - no, I don't think so.
-Blind? I once was blinded by the loss of control, and emotional torrent, but now I can see.
-Or can patience finally pay off? Yes I believe so, but the "prize" is different than it was at the beginning. Rather than just "get my wife back", I think it has evolved into me being placed into a situation that forces me to take a real assessment of myself today and just how far I have come; 
-what I mean to myself and what I can be for others.
-how much strength, patience, bravery, and tolerance for others behavior I really have.
-what are the things that truly matter to me in my life today.
-When things get tough or require alot of time and effort, patience and strength do I fold and move on or do I dig in and try...even if it may seem hopeless to others.


With or without my wife by my side, I will know that I took an active role in trying to shape my world the best I could. Moreso, I can move onto whatever life brings me next and not have any doubts, or what if's lingering like black holes in the story of my past.

If this turns out with her and I together, there will be no question for either if us that I am the man I claim to be today, and that for better or worse, for ritcher or poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, til death do us part, I am right here....I always have been.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Another thing. I have talked with my inlaws, and a few other elderly couples trying to get perspective on the things they did to stay happily married for 20, 30, 40 years, etc... One common thread I got from all of them was that people change, things can get boring, and sometimes outright nuts. My inlaws went through much worse than this and came out the other end together and happy. I asked them how they did it, and the first thing I noticed was that there was no placement of blame, or who instigated. Rather there was an honest appraisal in what each persons role was, and a common thread of patience, tolerance, and forgiveness.

If these people can get past heavier trauma for a longer time and come out the other end better for it then certainly I can at least try to model that behavior in my own life.


...Our just jump ship and never know....


So now you know my motive.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

I would never listen to my inlaws if my wife was behaving this way.... just my opinion.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Well they are on my side here, not hers. Their advice is sound and I have a great relationship with them and they voice their opinion of me as an individual all the time.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Not to derail my own thread here, and I'm not a religious person... but what would things be like if jesus did not turn the other cheek but rather threw up the shields and scorned and abandoned those that wronged him.


Just sayin...


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

nexgen said:


> Not to derail my own thread here, and I'm not a religious person... but what would things be like if jesus did not turn the other cheek but rather threw up the shields and scorned and abandoned those that wronged him.
> 
> 
> Just sayin...


Jesus also walked on water and turned water to wine. You are no Jesus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

No I'm not but for me turning the other cheek feels good. This is why I am devoting my energy to what makes me feel good inside. If she wants to be a part of that again, great...if not so be it. She will know what I am about, and what I am looking for. What I am capable of giving her if she wants it.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

nexgen said:


> No I'm not but for me turning the other cheek feels good. This is why I am devoting my energy to what makes me feel good inside. If she wants to be a part of that again, great...if not so be it. She will know what I am about, and what I am looking for. What I am capable of giving her if she wants it.


Nexgen, this is your path to travel. You do what you think is right for your family. My wife coming in drunk at 4 am would be a deal breaker but I realize you have been in her shoes.

Ignore the snide remarks you get here. As far as I know, no one ever goofed up following Jesus's lead. It is when they quit following that lead that the sh!t hits the fan as Bandit.45 can testify to regarding the path that his wife veered on to. She was raised in a Christian Catholic home but lost her way. Now her life is a total mess instead of bing happy at home with her husband and dogs. She gave up so much for so little.

You should make a list for your wife of all the great, good and pretty good things she has that she is in danger of losing. Also make a list of the few things she will gain by continuing on her present course.

Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are "What might have been." ****ens


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks chapparal. I'm going to do that. I'm also going to make a list of the things I would need her to do to show me that shes wants this more than that.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I doubt your inlaws went through something worse and stayed together

Your wife is an alcholic and apparently a drug user too. She leaves you to go out to other men, Eric being one, but there will be others if not already. She has demanded an open marriage. There is no lover there my friend, not for you and not for herself. Certainly none for your child. A mother with love would be fighting off these other things which are ruining her kids child hood. She in the other hand I'd embracing them.

You are deeply ingrained in a unhealthy codependent relationship where you are being emotionally abused by her choices. Your child is suffering as well and is going to need therapy for a long time to learn to deal with the neglect and abandonment issues caused by your wayward wife.

You are trying to be the good guy and her savior. It's not going to work out like you ate hoping it will. She has to want to choose to live life better and be a real wife, but she isn't choosing that. She has only the smallest of personal motivation to fix herself. 

You need to seek out help from therapists or associations that deal with spouses and family members of pople with addictions. Your current path is only going to yield the same results of the past.

How is she paying for the drugs and drinks? Are you financing it? Is she getting men to buy it for her on dates?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She's most likely trading her body for drugs. Your happy home is just a place for her to crash until she needs to go back out and get her fix. Nice home you're raising your child in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Chap, I wasn't really being snide. In my opinion, the OP is on a self-destructive path, going through emotional wreck while his WW maintains a lifestyle that is natural for her, with no desire to change.

He is waiting out, but waiting out what exactly? I just don't see what could be a turning point there.


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Nexgen, I sense you are again leaning down the destructive path of, as other mention, being her savior. It simply is not going to happen. 
Does your inlaws know what she is doing, and what she has done in the past- did you allow them to read this thread? I am skeptical by them saying their situation was "far worse" than this... how could that be possible, this is bottom line revolting!
You bringing up jesus analogies only points to the fact that you again are looking for hope in a intity outside of your own actions, making you not responsible for the next step. Stop it, take control of your own actions and do what is best for your child.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Dude, the "You know I love you, right ?" talk has to stop. This is the second time I've noticed a similar conversation between both of you(The first time was when she was asking you to fix things between her and Eric.). Is this a regular way how you speak to her? I don't think this s a good way to make a point and looks borderline manipulative.

And she is not even taking kids to the school because of drinking and she is staying out until 4 am in the morning? This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Get out of the situation as early as possible. The current situation gives her no incentive to change. You are repeating the whole thing again and just waiting for her to fail again.


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

nexgen said:


> No I'm not but for me turning the other cheek feels good. This is why I am devoting my energy to what makes me feel good inside. If she wants to be a part of that again, great...if not so be it. She will know what I am about, and what I am looking for. What I am capable of giving her if she wants it.


I'm a counter puncher, so I have a bit of a hard time w/ turning the other cheek. But I do admire those who can do things that I can't. Janis Spring wrote "How Can I Forgive You," which I found to be helpful in dealing w/ the issue of forgiveness in the face of the unforgivable.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Nexgen, you are a funny guy............ Enjoy your life to full, life is short.

Any way you are living in a one side open marriage, Your wife needs an open marriage, then open the other end also. Live happily.

But one thing to say " Dont keep your children in your home, they are innocent, You maynot deserve a better life but your children deserve it. Your home is too toxic for your children to grow in with better moral and mental health.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

OK so I figured that after a month of no updates I would fill you all in on where I'm at today. First i will say thank you to all who took the time to read this epic journey into relationship hell, and chose to provide input, be supportive and most importantly tell me what i NEEDED After one more "im sorry, I lost sight of what's important, I choose you" statement from her followed by the now standard 3 day-Ish pink cloud , then realizing she has to do actual work to reconcile, I closed up shop on trying to bring our marriage back to good. she has absolutely no intention in doing the work necessary to find out how we got here, and how to get out together. For me i have done what i told her i would do from the beginning, which was to keep fighting for us, trying to restore our marriage to a place where we could move forward. That time and effort has come to an end. The respect i used to have of her and her morals and values has all been depleted....eroded away from me through all of the sadness, frustration, and pain that i have endured on a daily basis, almost relentlessly aiming to disintegrate any evidence that we were ever a couple for the last decade. All of the strength, bravery, courage, love, and support we have built up in each other and showed others around us has all but been wiped out in just under 6 months!!


I have learned through this whole thing that i had lost sight of what was most important to me....my two children. Too may times since all this started, I have offloaded them to a sitter or relative only to follow my WS around the local bar scene so i could be near her...in her orbit if you will (remember I'm a recovering alcoholic, so how irrational is that decision for me). More nights than i can count, even with all my telling myself I wouldn't, i have found myself pacing slowly back and forth in the dark late at night gazing out the window and down the street hoping that the next set of lights was our car coming back home. More nights than any husband/father should (which should never be needed), i have found myself loading our kids in the car at 3-4 in the morning and driving here or there to scoop mommy up and pour her into the passenger seat so we could get her back home safe. That has happened enough times that sometimes my kids ask if we can go on one of those late night driving adventures, what they don't see is my heart braking at the prospect that they don't know why that was happening or why it shouldn't be happening. The big glass bubble of innocence that i have tried to keep over them at their young age, is starting to form small cracks and chips in it.. As their parent i am responsible for making sure that bubble is strong when it needs to be, flexible when it is time for them to learn more, and clean to the point of being almost invisible to them.....I have work to do, work that i WANT to do to make that right again.

More than once we have gotten into yelling matches where we would both maliciously say hurtful things to each other out of frustration , only to realize that my kids are on the floor in the living room less than 20' away playing and trying to act like they don't hear us, but we all know they heard and saw ALL of it. I have watched my and my kids behavior deteriorate and have decided ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I will no longer allow my home to be a breeding ground for irresponsibility, deceit, cruelty, or emotional abuse. I am a GREAT father and its high time i start acting like it again.


So.... I am filing for divorce, and plan on concentrating on what matters most..my and my children's emotional and physical well being. (continued on next post).


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

this is a letter that im sending to my sister in law who happens to be a lawyer. ironically her entire family is on my side with all this and are dumfounded that their daughter would, or could act this way:



OK, so we are moving forward with the divorce. It is the LAST thing that I would ever choose, but she has decided that there is no part of her that wants to try to reconcile. In fact lately she treats me like no more than a roommate she is stuck living with based on circumstances. It is soooo hard for me time sit in the same room with her and watch her act like I don't even exist. I still don't have a clear explanation of how she got here and why she doesn't want to try....it is so exhausting and I feel completely alone, and abandoned. The reason I am texting you is that neither of us can afford a lawyer, and I don't think we would need one unless we can't agree on stuff. 

That being said, here's what I am looking at that would be in the best interest of our children in the near term;

-I would get the house and assume ownership of the note and the deed. 
This home is where a family is being grown, and the kids should not be displaced because of what she wants to do now. She agrees with this, and frankly her stance is that apparently she doesn't want to have anything to do with this place any longer (although she did choose this house when we were shopping)


-I would assume ownership of the SantaFe and she would retain ownership of the Saturn. the reason being is that vehicle is more reliable over the long term, and much safer with Airbags and anti lock breaks. Also maintenance will be less frequent as this car is much newer. There is more room of a family to do family/ home oriented things, like Grocery shopping with the kids, hauling household items, driving kids and kids friends here and there, etc. ... you get the idea. Also this car was a replacement for my vehicle, which was totaled and replaced through my insurance. 



This part is the most important, and most touchy part..... custody of the kids. let me start by paraphrasing some key points on this subject through this year.

-She Loves her kids. 
-She can be selfish at times.
-Often times she doesn't come to her senses and acknowledge wrong doing until after the fact. ...but the damage is already done. 

-For this whole year she has been getting progressively more and more reckless and irresponsible with her actions, usually falling back on the typical "I'm sorry, it wont happen again" , "its not a big deal" kind of response. She has made it clear to me more than once that she Loves her kids but if she had it all to to over she would have never married me or had children when she did. This stance along with her constantly and regularly choosing time away from home in favor of bar hopping, getting drunk and high, and staying at various (mostly male owned) places for after parties makes it fairly evident that the safety and security of our children is not a priority to her right now.

I have had to cover for her not coming home or coming home and passing out not getting Simon to school at least 4 or 5 times this year. The times when she is there to get that done, I usually come home and see the house in shambles; dirty dishes all over the place, organic food on the floor, and in the couch cushions decomposing; (black bananas, dark brown apple cores, sandwich meat, and crust hardened, Jelly congealed and hard, etc. ..) It is obvious that there is not an appropriate amount of parental guidance on her part, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. There are times when it is evident that 5year old Simon takes on the role of caretaker in many situations where it should not be necessary, like him doing his best to get Marissa and himself breakfast because Amanda wont wake up to care for it herself like she should be. What if there was a fire, or an accident like one of the kids getting a head injury or cut or something that needed immediate attention and Amanda wasn't available to them. 

Regarding custody of the kids, based on her behavior, which she sees nothing wrong with, i cannot reliably trust that she could be responsible enough to place our kids needs before her wants and not put them in emotional and possibly physical danger. That being said, what I want is to have joint legal custody so we can both do things like authorize medical care, schooling, etc. I would also want to retain full physical custody of the kids until such time that she can take a psychological eval and a drug and alcohol assessment, then based on the outcomes of those, take the appropriate steps that would be needed to get better. when she can 'pass' those two tests, and can prove to me through right and responsible behavior, i will then be willing to readdress the issue of joint physical custody.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Good luck!! Is she still in the affair?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good luck Nexgen. You did everything a spouse cpould to keep his marriage together. Sounds like the wife is a lost cause. 

The letter is one of the best I've ever read. You should teach many TAM folks here how to write them. 

Again, good luck and keep us posted in the GTD pages.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Yes she is still wayward. Ironically ever since I confronted the man she had the affair with, and exposed their actions to his parents, he is not talking to her, and believe me she tries to. frankly at this point i really don't care whether or not she is still sleeping with him, or anyone for that matter. 

but get this, and prime the hand to forehead dumfounded response to what Im about to write. After this(below) went down, it was painfully clearer than ever that not only does she not want to do the things that can work to save our marriage, she also has seemingly lost all respect and consideration for my feelings. We can sit in the room together and not communicate at all. Typically I was the one who initiated but I gave up on that too as usually her response would be some generic one liner one would reply with if you wanted to be polite but didn't give a damn what was being said.


ok so a couple weeks ago after this last, "I want back in" fiasco, that pink cloud ended with a typical, I'm going to the bar, wont be out long, to closing bar, to im going to go to Briannas house to hang out, ill probably just stay there.. I know this routine i say to myself, and I go about my business trying as hard as I can to not stay preoccupied with the fact that once again she chose "out there" over just coming home....


now heres the INSANE part, and at the moment I read this reply whatever may have been left for me to hold on to and try to nurture vaporised before my eyes, while I was sitting in my cube at work. this was her response to me telling her that i didn't appreciate how she treated me by staying out yet again with complete disregard of me and the kids feelings:



"I've told you before that its not my intention to hurt you. i wasn't out partying and getting wasted all night last night. we had a few drinks then i went and hung out with Tony. before you start over thinking things, let me tell you that he is in your position right now. his wife cheated on him while he was in Iraq and he is well aware of our situation. he knew it was you that called him the other day. like i told you earlier, we've hung out a couple times and he's a cool guy. i'm not 'Diggin' him, just enjoy talking. like i said, he is in a similar situation. i was trying to not throw it in your face that i was hanging out with a guy. wasn't trying to lie."



That sealed t he deal right then and there for me. That blows my mind!


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

F*cking wh0re.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Sorry man, she's gone.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Nexgen,

You are right to move on now get her out regardless of her excuses.


If your SIL is an attorney and on your side why won't she do the D for you??

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

nexgen said:


> now heres the INSANE part, and at the moment I read this reply whatever may have been left for me to hold on to and try to nurture vaporised before my eyes, while I was sitting in my cube at work. this was her response to me telling her that i didn't appreciate how she treated me by staying out yet again with complete disregard of me and the kids feelings:
> 
> 
> 
> ...












So she's helping another man recover from infidelity, but not you? Wow. She replaced Eric with Tony, so this Tony is the new OM. 

Actually nexgen, this shouldn't blow your mind. Remember, *this is a woman that actually wanted you to fix things between her and her OM*. :scratchhead:

Then she starts smoking weed in your own home with the children around and wants an open marriage. Something is seriously broken inside of her and you can't be the one to fix her. I hate to see another marriage bite the dust, but you have no choice. You said you were seeing a lawyer a couple of months ago. What's the progress on that? Did you put it on the back burner when you tried to R? Now you've learned that there's no way you can R with an unremorseful, unrepentant WS. She's still going out and banging other men, being a party girl at bars.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

nexgen said:


> organic food on the floor


This really is the deal breaker. Seriously?!

Organic. Floor. Straw/Camel/Back. Game Over!






Ok, jokes aside (and I'm not an [email protected]#hole, just hoping you might smile for a second), I've kept up with your story all along, and have really been pulling for you and your kids. You've given it all you got, and your marriage still couldn't be saved. I'm glad, though, that you've stopped short of giving to the point where you wouldn't even be there for the kids. You have been and WILL BE there. Your crazy WW will look in the mirror (one day) and hate what she has done. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of her life (Casablanca). 

You sir can hold your chin up. And while you'll continue to hurt more before you feel better, you at least know you gave your best. And you will feel better eventually. Think about that, really, for a second. About the totally opposite reflections you and your WW will see staring back from the mirror as time goes on...you having fought for your family and done the right things while she will always know deep down that you and the kids deserved better.

Stay strong my friend. Continue to make yourself into a better version of you each day in some small way. Continue to be a great father. Her loss. Make it a GAIN for you and your kids, in time at least.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Nobody can help your stbxw, only she can do that when she is ready to accept responsibility for her behavior. Sadly that may or may not happen. For that reason you and your children need to move on with your lives without her.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

thanks for the kind words as always, and for the gentle ribbing. i have gone through a lot, as have my children. nobody should ever have to suffer so much at the whim of another person. i know many of you correctly predicted the outcome from the onset of this thread, and believe me i can see why. i thank you all for staying supportive, and actually caring about me as i went on this journey. This was the way i had to do it to be certain that i had done all i could to save this marriage, and that if it was still destined to fail it wouldn't be for lack of effort on my part.

one other think i have learned about myself is that i am stronger than i thought i was. sure there are still days when a song comes on, or a memory meanders on by that will make me think of the way it used to be...when we were happy, and know that we wont have that together again, and it will make me sad. Remembering how she would look down at Simon, our first born, and a calm would overtake her, then she would look at me and we would lock eyes while he was sleeping as if to say to each other thank you, i love you, I'm here always, i get it, i never want this to end. we could sit for hours like that.


What i do know is that even tough this chapter in my story is coming to a close, I can move onto the next chapter knowing that i have grown as a man, a father, and a spouse. I am not angry, I am not beaten, I am not resentful, I do feel pain, but not in a way that is ominous, rather it is embraced on some level. as a recovering addict/alcoholic, just feeling anything is a monumental milestone of recovery, i embrace it, and want to know it. I can know that when life dealt me a bad hand, i did not fold, instead i ponied up to the table, ready to try my best to play well the hand i was dealt......I believe i have done that.


I am not scared, i know i can be brave.
I am not lonely, i know that God is right here with me.
I am not sad, for i had a chance to be shown what was really important...and i wasn't it, my kids were, are and always will be.

and....I will love again....maybe not as intensely as the start of my first love, but it will surely be appreciated many times more than my first, as now i understand that i cannot take for granted or overlook even the smallest detail, because if i do i will not be living my life as fully as i could be.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You'll find love again Nexgen.

Probably sooner than you think.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Nothing lasts forever. Everything ends. That is the nature of our existence.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> he knew it was you that called him the other day.


Can you clear this up a bit? So you talked to this guy?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm glad you are getting out from under this crap. I have a feeling that your kids will feel the same way since all this women does is bring out the worst in you.

Once they see daddy happy you will see a change, what sucks is watching mommy slide even furthure....but in the end they still have ther dad who stopped putting up with the b*llsh*t that made him so unhappy.

That in its self should be the motivation to push this along ASAP. I hope your SIL can help at the very least take the step to distance your self from this drunk and be there for the kids.

Don't be like me, I waited to long and out of the 2 adult kids (22 D and 18 S) my son is still struggling to finish high school. The daughter got out of HS bearly but is on the 5 year plan at college. It sucked going to the cop shop for my kids delieguency b/c my wife was to messed up to get them to school.

Having been there man I feel for you and a respect you for taking the big steps to make a healthier choice for your kids. 

Any way enough about me brother, your kids are still young and you have a chance to still make a difference, so stop letting your chick drag you and your kids down.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah, I saw an unfimiliar phone number on our record ALOT , so I called it. I didn't let on that I was her husband, but since he is essentially me in his world he knew.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Nexgen,

You have learned a valuable lesson. And know this, being there for your kids is not only a gift but an honor.

Your wife has lost that gift and has no honor. Your kids will always remember this and never forget it.

Have a great Fathers Day tomorrow.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Happy Fathers Day Nexgen!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Happy Fathers Day Nexgen!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes he truly deserve this, your children will definitely remember your love for them. They will honor you. good luck.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks guys for the Fathers day wishes. I almost caught myself being bummed that my stbxw would rather be out partying that day than be with me, but then I came to my senses and remembered its Fathers day, not be nice to your husband day. I commenced to spend the entire day off at waist level playing with the kids; playing fort, going to the park, going to visit my Father at his work while I treat myself to a new accessory for my new tablet. I told my father that I loved him, and my kids told me the same. It feels great to be in the middle if this father child lineage. THAT is what makes fathers day matter to me, and I no longer need her recognition, praise, or approval to know I'm doing right by my family. 


I got here kicking and screaming as it wasn't my choice to go this route, but life has a way of feeding me the things I need instead of the things I think I want. Taking stock of the last few years I realized that there were many things that I had chalked up to "compromise" in the name of marriage.... Today I realize I was choosing to settle so as to not rock the boat or whatever. The point is that I am alot more capable as an individual, a partner, and a parent than I had been giving myself credit for in the wake of my disease, hitting bottom, and the rise back out through recovery.


So here I sit, replying to unexpected friends in a more unexpected venue, feeling better about myself and what I am worth to the people I care about and who care about me. I'm more prepared to venture out into this next chapter in my story than ever before. 


......And when the pink cloud of this new way my life is heading starts to thin out, or when I may feel unsure or alone in my decisions or the direction I'm headed I will always know that there is a place that I can go where like minded people take the time from their own lives to be there to offer support and advice to the next lost soul and I can feel comfort. 


TAM

I could not have come through this without you and I will be forever grateful.

-Rob


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I've been in a similar situation for a long time now, except my husband doesn't drink or anything. I used to be the same type of person as you (not so much anymore)....supportive, forgiving, wanting to please, loving...but I've found as the years have gone on, his controlling and selfish nature is not going to end. All these types of people do is drive good people over the edge. They push and pull you until you crack either to do as they do, or leave them. I chose to stay all these years, and my husband has never become any better. He's destroyed any self esteem I had (of which I'm now trying to rebuild) They manipulate and give you false hope all the time. It's in their nature to be self-centered and make you feel like you're being selfish. 

My husband lacks empathy and completely denies me of my anger or hurt by his actions. I can't tell you if she is the type that will ever change. But from my experience I'm going to say because you are so nice and forgiving, and she has already reoffended so many times and sounds like she's far gone, she will continue this charade for years to come and possibly beyond. So long as you keep feeding her love and supporting her, she will give you grief, have her cake and eat it too in any circumstance. 

In my own situation, and it's gone on for 7 years, he has done everything in his power to keep me here and continue the lies and deceit. I'm at the point where I'm becoming separate from him. I'm choosing not to listen to his excuses and lies. I read most of your posts and I think that if you are going to keep separate from her grip and you have even the slightest thought that you can be without her, use that thought and remind yourself each day the grief she has already caused you. Even when she tries to draw you back in...always remember, this is who she is. She wants to have you, but she also cannot be an honest, trustworthy person. It's unfortunate, and it hurts to think about, even on your strongest days, but it's just the way these people are. If you want, read my thread. It's "in a nutshell" type thread, pretty awful thread, but it's the gist of it, minus things like drugs or drinking.


----------



## loveisforever (Jun 21, 2012)

I can not understand FULLY these cheater's mind. People are different, sometimes very different.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

God Bless you and the kids Rob.


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

It is done. we signed the divorce papers in front of a notary last night. The details are:

House, SUV, joint checking account, full physical custody of the kids to me. She will also pay monthly child support to me.

If she takes a chemical assessment, goes to treatment, and shows a marked and consistent improvement in her behavior regarding parental, and general responsibility. At that time i may reconsider the custody issue. This is outlined in the divorce papers, and also in a separate document that we both signed and dated and will include in the divorce filing.

she does not contest any of this, she found an apartment and will be moving out in a week or two.


I never asked for any of this, and i went kicking and screaming through this year. I have put up with ALOT more than anyone should have to, but i believe i have played the cards i was dealt the best i knew how, and know that i did all i could do to salvage this relationship. I must say that im just glad its over. Now i can get back to living my life and giving my kids. good role model.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

nexgen said:


> It is done. we signed the divorce papers in front of a notary last night. The details are:
> 
> House, SUV, joint checking account, full physical custody of the kids to me. She will also pay monthly child support to me.
> 
> ...


It is never what any of us truly want but I think it is the best outcome you can have with the cards you were dealt.

I hope you and your kids find peace. And I truly hope your exwife gets the help she needs to battle the demons inside her head.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

me too


----------

