# Will he see my value if we separate?



## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

My husband and I got in to a fight this morning to which he brought up separating, a thought I've had in my head for a little while now. We have been fighting almost every day about the same things: money, his attitude, he drinks too much, I don't have a job. Those are the main topics just about every time. We are total opposites in how we value life and in our thought processes so it's never been easy to communicate. Even though we want the same things, the way we see those things happening is different in some instances. Usually when he wants to have a serious talk he's been drinking and at that point there is no talking to him. I feel like I'm just supposed to sit there and listen to him without an opinion even when he starts in on the personal attach against me. When I want to talk he doesn't want to listen because he doesn't want to hear how he makes me feel. We run a business together. I'm pretty much in charge of everything. When I try to go over with him why I spent money here or why I put it there or bring up suggestions on what we should do I'm immediately told I don't know what I'm doing. Someone else can say the exact same thing I just said and it's a brilliant idea... I lost my job at the end of last year and haven't been able to get another yet. Partly because I live in a very small town with limited options and partly because I'm trying to focus on the business because at this point I'm the only one interested in seeing it succeed. Bottom line is I don't feel respected or appreciated for anything I do. I don't have a job but I'm not sitting at home on my butt watching TV. I run the business, clean, do the laundry and cook. I feel like his maid not his wife! I guess my question is, is all this normal in a marriage when two people are trying to still figure out their rolls? If we separate will he see my value? Only been married for 2-1/2 years, together for about 7 years.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Fighter99 said:


> My husband and I got in to a fight this morning to which he brought up separating, a thought I've had in my head for a little while now. We have been fighting almost every day about the same things: money, his attitude, he drinks too much, I don't have a job. Those are the main topics just about every time. We are total opposites in how we value life and in our thought processes so it's never been easy to communicate. Even though we want the same things, the way we see those things happening is different in some instances. Usually when he wants to have a serious talk he's been drinking and at that point there is no talking to him. I feel like I'm just supposed to sit there and listen to him without an opinion even when he starts in on the personal attach against me. When I want to talk he doesn't want to listen because he doesn't want to hear how he makes me feel. We run a business together. I'm pretty much in charge of everything. When I try to go over with him why I spent money here or why I put it there or bring up suggestions on what we should do I'm immediately told I don't know what I'm doing. Someone else can say the exact same thing I just said and it's a brilliant idea... I lost my job at the end of last year and haven't been able to get another yet. Partly because I live in a very small town with limited options and partly because I'm trying to focus on the business because at this point I'm the only one interested in seeing it succeed. Bottom line is I don't feel respected or appreciated for anything I do. I don't have a job but I'm not sitting at home on my butt watching TV. I run the business, clean, do the laundry and cook. I feel like his maid not his wife! I guess my question is, is all this normal in a marriage when two people are trying to still figure out their rolls? If we separate will he see my value? Only been married for 2-1/2 years, together for about 7 years.


Actually, I don't know if he is the one for you. Do you think he would do marriage counseling? 

He really sounds immature and kind of like a jerk. No kids? I would pull the plug myself. There are a lot of red flags that don't bode well for the future...


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## Horse on Ice (Dec 22, 2015)

Well, my two cents. He brought up separating for one of three reasons.

1.He's using it as a manipulative threat to keep/get you under his control

2.He's thinking it will "free" him to do what he wants without you "nagging" him.

3.Or, he has difficulty in communicating with you, and is giving up. Whether that is because he lacks communication skills, or because you lack communication skills, or both of you is yet to be determined. 

BluesPower made a good suggestion. Have the two of you discussed marriage counseling?


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

Fighter99 said:


> I guess my question is, is all this normal in a marriage when two people are trying to still figure out their rolls? If we separate will he see my value? Only been married for 2-1/2 years, together for about 7 years.


Hard to define 'normal' these days, but certainly not healthy, and not a relationship that I would want to be in. After 7 years I would think your roles have been settled and this is what your relationship is actually. And who cares if he sees your value if you separate - he sounds like a real turd. I'd be willing to bet that if you did separate, he would change for the better in the short term, but you'd be right back where you started in a month or two. No kids? Life is too short for that bull****.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Life is too short...get on with it. No kids...alcoholic ... its a no brainer.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

I'm confused.. you don't work but you run a business with your husband? How exactly does that arrangement work??


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

Steve2.0 said:


> I'm confused.. you don't work but you run a business with your husband? How exactly does that arrangement work??


I don't have a "regular" job. We started a business last year involving livestock. Basically I have been doing all the work (bookkeeping, marketing, sales, livestock management, etc.). He helps me when he feels like it with stuff like rotating the animals, hauling them and land maintenance. We get the livestock from a guy he works with which has helped to a degree with getting the livestock cheap but I've had issues with the quality.

He was on board in the beginning but with the stress and pressure from his job (construction) he's pulled back to the point were he doesn't want anything to do with the business now. He wants to pull the plug on the whole thing. He doesn't want me to invest any more of "his" money into the business. Basically told me that if I want to keep it going I need to get a job which I'm actively doing it's just hard because we live in the middle of no where and my options are extremely limited which is why we wanted to start a business in the first place. So basically the "arrangement" is not working out. There is real potential in our business. It's a start up, it's going to take a second to start making an income.

I'm not giving up. I have already made up my mind to continue do this with or without him but since we started an LLC together I would have to buy him out and that's not really an option right now.

P.S. no, we don't have any kids.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does the business actually earn a profit?


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

I have asked him about going to a marriage counselor with me but he said " why so they can tell me I'm wrong too"... 

Question for the guys commenting on my post. Does it sound like he's just not into this marriage or me anymore? He did the same thing in his last relationship of nine years. Was he lying about wanting a better life and to be a better person? We specifically moved 1500 miles to start this new life. 

On the communication question, his skills are definitely lacking. We have different educational experience. I'm a college graduate and he dropped out of high school when he was 17.


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Does the business actually earn a profit?


I wouldn't say it's profitable right now because we haven't recouped our start up costs. Sales are good and the interest is there but everything is invested back into the business. Usually goes to food for the animals and processing fees


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Fighter99 said:


> I have asked him about going to a marriage counselor with me but he said " why so they can tell me I'm wrong too"...
> 
> Question for the guys commenting on my post. Does it sound like he's just not into this marriage or me anymore? He did the same thing in his last relationship of nine years. Was he lying about wanting a better life and to be a better person? We specifically moved 1500 miles to start this new life.
> 
> On the communication question, his skills are definitely lacking. We have different educational experience. *I'm a college graduate and he dropped out of high school when he was 17*.


I'm afraid I cant answer your central question as to whether or not he's still into you or the marriage. 

But with regard to the bolded, his refusal to listen to you and his saying you don't know what you're talking about could be an overcompensation arising from insecurity over the difference in background. Lots of guys have some trouble with this and it can get worse as a relationship progresses. 

I must say, though, that the single biggest concern here should be the drinking. In all likelihood, that also impacts every other aspect of your marriage. Whatever boundaries you need to set almost certainly need to be set there first. If that doesn't change (and I'm afraid it rarely does), then out is really the only way. And to related this to your original question in the thread title, a separation may cause the clue light to come on, but as long as the drinking continues, it'll go right back out again. Drunks who "see the light" and beg their spouse back as a result always relapse once the spouse is back in the house. So be very wary if you do separate and he has an epiphany--it'll likely be fleeting at best.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

After you separate, Which you are both thinking, do you think you will start to see his value? Will the business be viable after you sell a bunch of the livestock to buy him out? (because when you separate, he is going to want this.) Are you capable of rotating the livestock, transporting the live stock, and caring for the property with out him? You are going to experience this soon. All the determination in the world is not going to move that organic fertilizer for you.


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

Horse on Ice said:


> Well, my two cents. He brought up separating for one of three reasons.
> 
> 1.He's using it as a manipulative threat to keep/get you under his control
> 
> ...


If it's #1 that's a waste of his time and he knows it. I think that's part of his frustration that I don't listen to him. Not that I'm trying to be defiant or argumentative but when he's wrong or verbally attacking me I speak up for myself.

#2 sounds about right. Asking for help around the house or trying to talk to him about the way he makes me feel is not nagging.

#3 we definitely have a communication problem as a couple. I think a lot of it has to do with both of us being stubborn and we don't like it when our flaws are pointed out. I just feel like he's not really listening to what I'm saying. He takes it the wrong way every time even when I say the nicest things.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Fighter99 said:


> I have asked him about going to a marriage counselor with me but he said " why so they can tell me I'm wrong too"...
> 
> *Question for the guys commenting on my post. Does it sound like he's just not into this marriage or me anymore? He did the same thing in his last relationship of nine years. Was he lying about wanting a better life and to be a better person? We specifically moved 1500 miles to start this new life. *
> 
> On the communication question, his skills are definitely lacking. We have different educational experience. I'm a college graduate and he dropped out of high school when he was 17.


I honestly think he is tired of watching the money flow down the rat hole. He's willing to give you up to stop the hemorrhage. I've lived and worked with farmers and contractors for most of my 50 years. I'm also not happy about the alcohol. but the business end is catching my attention.


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> After you separate, Which you are both thinking, do you think you will start to see his value? Will the business be viable after you sell a bunch of the livestock to buy him out? (because when you separate, he is going to want this.) Are you capable of rotating the livestock, transporting the live stock, and caring for the property with out him? You are going to experience this soon. All the determination in the world is not going to move that organic fertilizer for you.


I am capable of moving the animals myself however I can't haul livestock because I don't have a truck and land clearing, yes I can get out there and clear somethings by hand but the tractor is his. 

I see the value he has, the problem is he doesn't see mine. I fully appreciate and I'm grateful for the fact that he gets up every day and goes to a job he hates just to support us. My problem is his extremely crappy attitude coupled with the drinking. A lot of people get up and go to a job they hate everyday to support themselves but they don't throw a tantrum every morning before they walk out the door screaming that they hate their life, slam doors, etc. it's like, man up! We have a bigger picture we are working towards but that's not good enough for him. Another reason why we started the business, so we could become our own boss and sustain ourselves financially. That won't happen if you're constantly in a woe as me state of mind. You can't throw your hands up and protest life because it's not going your way right now. I've tried to explain all this to him but again, because it's coming from me I'm nagging or being defensive or some BS like that. He is the best guy I know when he wants to be. I know his value that's why I've put up with all this for as long as I have.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fighter99 said:


> I wouldn't say it's profitable right now because we haven't recouped our start up costs. Sales are good and the interest is there but everything is invested back into the business. Usually goes to food for the animals and processing fees


Does this mean that you are not putting anything towards recouping your startup costs at this time?

Whose idea was it to start this business? Was it his? How much was it his friend encouraging him to do this?

This is pretty normal for a livestock reseller. My understanding is that its next to impossible to actually even cover your costs in the business.


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

Oh and will the business be successful if he's gone? Yes I absolutely believe it will. I may have more opportunity with the business if he wasn't around. I'll have more time to focus and I won't have a negative nelly around bringing me down. I will have to buy a truck to haul the animals and find a different supplier which I'm already looking into. Not having a tractor will suck but I'll figure it out.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Fighter99 said:


> I am capable of moving the animals myself however I can't haul livestock because I don't have a truck and land clearing, yes I can get out there and clear somethings by hand but the tractor is his.
> 
> I see the value he has, the problem is he doesn't see mine. I fully appreciate and I'm grateful for the fact that he gets up every day and goes to a job he hates just to support us. My problem is his extremely crappy attitude coupled with the drinking. A lot of people get up and go to a job they hate everyday to support themselves but they don't throw a tantrum every morning before they walk out the door screaming that they hate their life, slam doors, etc. it's like, man up! We have a bigger picture we are working towards but that's not good enough for him. Another reason why we started the business, so we could become our own boss and sustain ourselves financially. That won't happen if you're constantly in a woe as me state of mind. You can't throw your hands up and protest life because it's not going your way right now. I've tried to explain all this to him but again, because it's coming from me I'm nagging or being defensive or some BS like that. *He is the best guy I know when he wants to be.* I know his value that's why I've put up with all this for as long as I have.


Another hallmark of many chronic drinkers. They are the most awesome people when they're not drinking or starting to stress because it's been too long since their last drink. People who don't live with them can't even begin to imagine that they aren't the coolest, most awesome people on earth. But they only see the good side. Those they live with see the whole picture. The question is whether the whole picture is worth it.


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> Fighter99 said:
> 
> 
> > I honestly think he is tired of watching the money flow down the rat hole. He's willing to give you up to stop the hemorrhage. I've lived and worked with farmers and contractors for most of my 50 years. I'm also not happy about the alcohol. but the business end is catching my attention.
> ...


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Fighter99 said:
> 
> 
> > Another hallmark of many chronic drinkers. They are the most awesome people when they're not drinking or starting to stress because it's been too long since their last drink. People who don't live with them can't even begin to imagine that they aren't the coolest, most awesome people on earth. But they only see the good side. Those they live with see the whole picture. The question is whether the whole picture is worth it.
> ...


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## Fighter99 (Apr 22, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Fighter99 said:
> 
> 
> > Does this mean that you are not putting anything towards recouping your startup costs at this time?
> ...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Sounds like you have thought this out pretty well. Alcohol wrecks marriages and businesses. If you want to fix his behavior and get him invested in the business and valuing you. Get him off the sauce. Separation is just a pre-divorce. A step towards breaking up. I think you have me pinned down right. I'm also an entrepreneur (former reformed). But I'm nearly as negative as your man. I tend to distrust over optimism. 

Anyway good fortune, and see if he will drop the alcohol.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Fighter99 said:


> I have asked him about going to a marriage counselor with me but he said " why so they can tell me I'm wrong too"...
> 
> Question for the guys commenting on my post. Does it sound like he's just not into this marriage or me anymore? He did the same thing in his last relationship of nine years. Was he lying about wanting a better life and to be a better person? We specifically moved 1500 miles to start this new life.
> 
> On the communication question, his skills are definitely lacking. We have different educational experience. I'm a college graduate and he dropped out of high school when he was 17.


On this one here, yes he sounds checked out. Now, if he WANTED to learn to communicate, and he wanted to work on the marriage, then you might have a chance to fix it. 

However, since he seems checked out and he does not seem interested in counseling, I am not sure why you would want to keep up this marriage. You do all the work to get him to GROW as a man, only to find out that he is just really not that interested in the marriage. Not sure that is a good investment, so to speak. 

But here I the biggest red flag, that I am seeing. It is your educational differences.

Let me explain it like this. There are some brilliant HS dropouts. They got bored with school, or they had other circumstances that prevented them from furthering their education. These people read, and learn on their own. They grow through that and life experience. They usually have a trade that they are really good at, and they learn it and at the same time learn about the business side of the business. These people are usually successful in the long run. 

Then there are those that are not brilliant, because, they just are not. 

Your H sounds like the latter. 

But overall, something that I have noticed about women, especially my GF. She married men that were just not a smart as her. And they were not just a little less smarter than her, they were no where near as smart as her in any way. 

My GF, and many women that I have dated, found that in the long run, they could not respect a man that was not their intellectual equal or at least close to it. It just seems to never work for one reason or another. 

All the women that I have been with in relationships with rave about how smart I am. Now I am super smart and some of that comes from education and some of that comes from life. Some of that comes from growing up poor. 

I, for example, can fix almost anything, and if I cannot fix it, I understand what is wrong and can tell someone about the issue. That is from growing up poor. You had to fix things because you could not afford to replace them. 

But to a lot of women that I have dated, they actually think I am some kind of genius because I know how to do those things. 

The point of all of that is this. He may be a good guy, and good for him. But if he is not in the ballpark of your intellectual level, odds are that the marriage may not work. 

Does that make any sense???


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

"Will he see my value if we separate?"
Tell us what is your street value? Do you see what it is you are selling? What do you bring to the table? 

BTW "your intellectual level" has nothing to do with whether a man is interested in you, for the most part.
If you know what he wants then sell him what you have that fits those qualities.
If he's not interested, the next guy will be buying too.

When you can answer those questions honestly you will know if separation will work.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So you constantly tell him how he’s wrong? You’re stubborn and never give in on anything? That kind of personality will Check a man out fairly quickly. Many men don’t really want a PITA wife. If you’re determined to be one, you’re probably just not compatible. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

StillSearching said:


> "Will he see my value if we separate?"
> Tell us what is your street value? Do you see what it is you are selling? What do you bring to the table?
> 
> BTW "your intellectual level" has nothing to do with whether a man is interested in you, for the most part.
> ...


I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here. 

And the intellectual stuff is from her view point. Women that marry men that are not their intellectual equals, many, many of those relationships go bad. And that is a bunch that I have seen.

And you know what, unless she is just lying on the internet, I am not sure that she needs to sell him anything. 

The dude has lost interest and is border line verbally abusive, so why would she try to sell him anything.

For me she needs to call in the dogs and piss on the fire, because it really sounds like he has checked out. And unless I miss read something, I cannot see where she did anything to deserve that...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Eh... it’s probably more likely that he’ll start seeing someone else’s “value”.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here.
> 
> And the intellectual stuff is from her view point. Women that marry men that are not their intellectual equals, many, many of those relationships go bad. And that is a bunch that I have seen. *Women marry men that are in no way equal to them. No one is equal to anyone. "intellectual equals"... How do you measure that? Just a bizarre comparison ideal.*
> 
> ...


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I would divorce him if he doesn't agree to stop drinking and stay sober long term.

You should be treated/talked to with respect. If he doesn't follow these two basic rules then you need to leave him. Make it clear to him - this is YOUR boundary and if he crosses it - you leave.


He can't "make you feel" any certain way. But unacceptable behavior should have consequences. You do this for yourself.

You train people how to treat you. Speak up when it's not right. Leave if he does those things again after warning him.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

See if he'll trade something you're willing to give, that won't hurt you, in order to "buy him out". It doesn't always involve money in these circumstances. If you can support the business without another paycheck.....that's an immediate question....
If you want to D, that is. Choices are hard.

Good luck.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

StillSearching said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here.
> 
> And the intellectual stuff is from her view point. Women that marry men that are not their intellectual equals, many, many of those relationships go bad.
> 
> ...


So for your first response, sorry buddy, I have been with at least 10 different women that did the exact same thing. 

And that is just in my personal experience. I have known 50 or more woman that had this issue. 

They wake up and realize that hubby is just not that smart, he never will be, and it will not change. 

Intellectual comparisons are made every single day, millions of times a day. On of those is call a test. As in school. As in acceptance tests. 

Some people are smarter than other people. If may not be fun, it may hurt the feelings of the less smart people, but it is just a stone cold fact of life. Some men have a 12" ****, some men are better looking, some men are better athletes, and the same for women as well. 

What a strange concept for me to accept is that you think people cannot be evaluated for their strengths and weaknesses, wow, that is just crazy. If that were the case I think I want to be a tenured prof at MIT, so I will just go do that. 

Of course people are different, some are really smart, some are very empathic, and some are just stupid. 

Women that marry men that are not AROUND their intellectual level, have difficulties in those relationships...

The other responses meh... I don't get what in the world you are trying to say, maybe you are just a lot smarter than me...

Here is the bottom line. Like I said, unless she has been a really crappy wife, his attitude suggest to me that he has checked out and she should let him stay checked out and leave the marriage...


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Fighter99 said:


> If we separate will he see my value? Only been married for 2-1/2 years, together for about 7 years.


Maybe he'll see your value, but he might not be able to stop being a jerk even if he does realize your value.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I have never heard of separating being good for anything except divorce.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Fighter99 said:


> My husband and I got in to a fight this morning to which he brought up separating, a thought I've had in my head for a little while now. We have been fighting almost every day about the same things: money, his attitude, he drinks too much, I don't have a job. Those are the main topics just about every time. We are total opposites in how we value life and in our thought processes so it's never been easy to communicate. Even though we want the same things, the way we see those things happening is different in some instances. Usually when he wants to have a serious talk he's been drinking and at that point there is no talking to him. I feel like I'm just supposed to sit there and listen to him without an opinion even when he starts in on the personal attach against me. When I want to talk he doesn't want to listen because he doesn't want to hear how he makes me feel. We run a business together. I'm pretty much in charge of everything. When I try to go over with him why I spent money here or why I put it there or bring up suggestions on what we should do I'm immediately told I don't know what I'm doing. Someone else can say the exact same thing I just said and it's a brilliant idea... I lost my job at the end of last year and haven't been able to get another yet. Partly because I live in a very small town with limited options and partly because I'm trying to focus on the business because at this point I'm the only one interested in seeing it succeed. Bottom line is I don't feel respected or appreciated for anything I do. I don't have a job but I'm not sitting at home on my butt watching TV. I run the business, clean, do the laundry and cook. I feel like his maid not his wife! I guess my question is, is all this normal in a marriage when two people are trying to still figure out their rolls? *If we separate will he see my value?*Only been married for 2-1/2 years, together for about 7 years.


*There's always a possibility, but the probability is beyond extremely slim!*


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