# Falling back to square one



## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi everybody,

The kids and I have been doing really well with all the tragedies that we faced lately. Within a 6 month period, my husband left, my FIL passed away, and our favorite dog was forced to leave the house and move in with my friend. Our dog then got hit by a car and died.

As a broken family, the kids and I were doing okay, staying strong and moving forward with our lives. That's until up to two days ago. It seems like all of a sudden, we fell and took a couple of steps back. All the anger and resentment that my kids held in, came out. I feel terrible that my kids have to go through this. I held them, talked to them and let them cry it out. I told them that they needed to grieve for all the losses we had. 

After talking to my kids, I started to 'think' and wondered if I made a mistake by filing for divorce. I started to think, what if i stuck it out longer, waited longer, or tried harder to make the marriage work...for the kids. I know in my heart, it is not what I want and I can't make him change his mind. I (and the kids) do not deserve a man who didn't value me or his family and put all of us second for his MOW. I just feel so lost and confused right now. It feels like I'm back at square one and have to start all over again.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

You can always stop the D if you want , but why did file in the first place ?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I know ultimately I can always stop the D anytime. He was cheating on me and when found out, he told me he was leaving "because our 20 years of marriage was miserable". I tried to work it out, started the 180, and with the 180, I realized that I didn't need a person who kept treating me like scum anymore. I didn't file while emotional. I felt that I was at peace and was ready to move on when I went to court and turned in those papers. 

I was okay until 2 days ago when it hit me. Once the judge signs off on the divorce, this is the END. I guess I'm just being emotional now. I need to focus and keep working on me, the kids, and our future.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Cheater is always a cheater ! 

Do you want to be cheated on til the rest of your live ?

Do you want to leave with cheater til the rest of your live ? 

Do you want to be treated like crap til the rest of your live ? 

If you answer YES to all the questions then yeah , take him back !


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Cheater is always a cheater !
> 
> Do you want to be cheated on til the rest of your live ?
> 
> ...


BigMac: This is the kick in the butt that i needed. I just put all that onto a piece of paper and stuck it on my vanity to see everyday. It's true and I believe it...a cheater will always be a cheater... Thank you.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I was okay until 2 days ago when it hit me. Once the judge signs off on the divorce, this is the END. I guess I'm just being emotional now. I need to focus and keep working on me, the kids, and our future.


It's like a trigger, darlin'. And we all get emotional from time to time - just let it out and keep your chin up!

Reading what you've wrote - it seems to me that you know you're better off without him. And we both know that staying in an unhappy marriage is damaging to not just yourself but your children as well.

Don't think of it as an "END" - instead approach it as a new beginning. One where you can be at peace, find the things/people in life that make you happy and finally be treated the way you deserve.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> BigMac: This is the kick in the butt that i needed. I just put all that onto a piece of paper and stuck it on my vanity to see everyday. It's true and I believe it...a cheater will always be a cheater... Thank you.



You very welcome 

Hope you take it serious and don't bother with him. 

I bet he'll try to get you back down the road and he'll use the kids to soften you. DON'T buy it ! 

Good luck and stay strong !


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

BigMac said:


> You very welcome
> 
> Hope you take it serious and don't bother with him.
> 
> ...


I've been pretty good with not falling for any of his crap. I'm just mad at myself for feeling weak and letting this get to me recently. I do know better, all thanks to reading everyone's threads and posts here on TAM. I would honestly take any advice here over my friend's advice.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> It's like a trigger, darlin'. And we all get emotional from time to time - just let it out and keep your chin up!
> 
> Reading what you've wrote - it seems to me that you know you're better off without him. And we both know that staying in an unhappy marriage is damaging to not just yourself but your children as well.
> 
> Don't think of it as an "END" - instead approach it as a new beginning. One where you can be at peace, find the things/people in life that make you happy and finally be treated the way you deserve.


I like that thinking, Eternal. I'm not going to think of it as the END, but a New Beginning.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

You guys will be proud of me. My almost ex husband just called complaining that he will have to pay for the Notary ($165) on Thursday. (I'm having one come to the house when he comes over to pick up the kids.) He complained that he doesn't have that money etc etc. and how he's been seeing a therapist every couple of weeks and how some days he doesn't get up from bed, only to take a shot of tequila. Blah blah blah

I DIDN'T FALL FOR IT! I just told him, see you on Thursday and hung up.

Patting my own back.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Well done.
I know how hard it is for your kids. Always try to remember you are doing the right thing for them. They should grieve the end of the family they knew. But you guys can build a stronger, more loving family built on respect-something you weren't receiving. I share your feelings of fear. Remember, if you ever take him back it will be because you want the family you thought you had before he cheated-not the family you actually had.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> You guys will be proud of me. My almost ex husband just called complaining that he will have to pay for the Notary ($165) on Thursday. (I'm having one come to the house when he comes over to pick up the kids.) He complained that he doesn't have that money etc etc. and how he's been seeing a therapist every couple of weeks and how some days he doesn't get up from bed, only to take a shot of tequila. Blah blah blah
> 
> I DIDN'T FALL FOR IT! I just told him, see you on Thursday and hung up.
> 
> Patting my own back.



Very proud of you ! 

Right now he'll play the victim card , DON"T buy it please !

Leave him stink in his own s!!t . He cheated , he was " miserable for 20 years " , he left you ! 

If he ask you for R you should remind him those things and end up with " this is what you wanted , enjoy " !

Please continue the great job


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Very proud of you !
> 
> Right now he'll play the victim card , DON"T buy it please !
> 
> ...


He sure did play the victim card. 

I'm going to really need a lot of support because the next couple of months will be the hardest for me. As soon as our paperwork gets to the judge and he signs it, I can then Breathe.


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## tokio (Nov 9, 2012)

I agree with Pluto. Remember the kids are most important. Build a better life for them. If you guys do get back together like Pluto said, make sure it's because you want for your kids to have the family you used to have before all the bs. I'm in the same situation but my wife is the same as your husband. I felt the same about stopping the D and reconciling also. But then I contemplate if its worth it now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dewayne76 (Sep 26, 2012)

sooo the notary was for him signing D papers? 

If so, I didn't realize I'd have to pay to have that done. 

So yeah. She knows I don't have any money. Hmm.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Just remember, LW4.5, it wasn't just up to you to 'work harder.' If he was done, he was done. That pretty much took your options away. Don't feel guilty.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> He sure did play the victim card.
> 
> I'm going to really need a lot of support because the next couple of months will be the hardest for me. As soon as our paperwork gets to the judge and he signs it, I can then Breathe.



We're here to support each other , everyone is on your side so please write all your though here , we're with you !

BTW at TD bank notarial is for FREE ! Don't give him any money ! 

Tell him to put his big boy pants beside the cheating ones !


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Dewayne76 said:


> sooo the notary was for him signing D papers?
> 
> If so, I didn't realize I'd have to pay to have that done.
> 
> So yeah. She knows I don't have any money. Hmm.


Dewayne- Yes, the notary is for him to sign. He never responded to any of my papers, so this is his last chance. I'm having a notary come to the house, that way, I can be sure he does it. He can also take it to the bank and do it for free, but right now, I don't trust him with the papers....he may lose it or something. It's my only copy.

California is a no fault state and the divorce can go on without him. It's already on Default, so if he doesn't sign, it will still go through, but it will take longer.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

He signed and notarized the final papers today, but not without him accusing me of being manipulative, scheming, trying to take everything from him etc etc. I told him that his mother served him the petition over 3 months ago and he had a chance to read over and respond with what he thought was fair. He NEVER did that. Even after I reminded him to respond before I filed for default. And after all that yelling, he SIGNED it! As soon as i bring it to court, the judge will get to it and sign off on it. 

i can't help but feel sad that he didn't try and stop it. I knew better, but it was just a little hope.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> i can't help but feel sad that he didn't try and stop it. I knew better, but it was just a little hope.


To stop what ? The divorce ? You still want him back ?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

BigMac said:


> To stop what ? The divorce ? You still want him back ?


No, not want him back. I just wanted him to say, hey, this is all wrong, I shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry. 
I know it wouldn't happen. I was just hoping that he was still human enough to realize it.

Stupid...i know.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> No, not want him back. I just wanted him to say, hey, this is all wrong, I shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry.
> I know it wouldn't happen. I was just hoping that he was still human enough to realize it.
> 
> Stupid...i know.


The closure you are looking for wont come from him.

It will come from within.

You will find it when your are "right" with yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> No, not want him back. I just wanted him to say, hey, this is all wrong, I shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry.
> I know it wouldn't happen. I was just hoping that he was still human enough to realize it.
> 
> Stupid...i know.


Forget it ! Remember dumpers always blame the dumped for the fail of the marriage and never admit their faults , so don't expect apologizes right now.

One they when he sees what is out there and decide to ( willing ) come back to you, then he'll be sorry for everything , even for the dry season in the middle west .


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

spun said:


> The closure you are looking for wont come from him.
> 
> It will come from within.
> 
> ...



I cant even imagine the day I find peace within myself right now.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I cant even imagine the day I find peace within myself right now.


It's a process not an event.

Start doing your best to love you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

First off - when he plays the victim card just invoke the words of Conrad "I'm sorry you feel that way but your inconvenience is not my problem" - I love that line!

My STBXH loves to play the passive aggressive victim. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't hurt me, cause it does. At that moment I feel bad for leaving him with virtually nothing but afterwards when I can clear my head I realize that this whole separation thing was his idea, not mine, therefore he made his bed and can lay in it. And it's no one's fault but their own if they are unable to care for themselves - we were there being supportive spouses for them to the best of our ability - they're the ones that foolishy threw that away.

I had the same feelings you did when we were getting our LS notarized (gotta wait 366 days till you can file for D where I'm at) - wishing he would own his part of the mess we are in but it was a pipe dream. In their eyes they have done no wrong and Spun is right that you'll will never get that acknowledgment from your X.

Keep focusing on yourself and your children, babe. Slowly but surely the good days will begin to outweigh the bad. And don't feel let down or discouraged by the occasional trigger - they might set you back a little and hurt at the time but as long as you keep your chin up and keep on keeping on you'll make it thru this mess!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> First off - when he plays the victim card just invoke the words of Conrad "I'm sorry you feel that way but your inconvenience is not my problem" - I love that line!
> 
> My STBXH loves to play the passive aggressive victim. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't hurt me, cause it does. At that moment I feel bad for leaving him with virtually nothing but afterwards when I can clear my head I realize that this whole separation thing was his idea, not mine, therefore he made his bed and can lay in it. And it's no one's fault but their own if they are unable to care for themselves - we were there being supportive spouses for them to the best of our ability - they're the ones that foolishy threw that away.
> 
> ...


I love that line too! Conrad is a real wise person! lol

How do you deal with the triggers? I live with his mother, so I can't really show emotions when she's around. This is one of my outlets, it helps, but there are days I just want to sit and talk to a real person and cry.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I love that line too! Conrad is a real wise person! lol


I know! And he is sorely missed!



Left With 4.5 said:


> How do you deal with the triggers? I live with his mother, so I can't really show emotions when she's around. This is one of my outlets, it helps, but there are days I just want to sit and talk to a real person and cry.


You live with his mother? Oh darlin', that must be tough! I couldn't even imagine having to spend time with any of my STBXH's family... that takes some strength so kudos to you!

When I have my triggers I usually post about them on here - I find I get more helpful, unbiased advise (hence my thread name) from folks and friends on here than I do from the people in my real life. The real people mean well, they listen but their listening is usually followed up by them just bashing my STBXH - which don't get me wrong - it usually gets me laughing but at the same time it doesn't feel very productive - plus I'm sure they don't wanna be hearing about my marriage problems all the time, I usually get to feeling guilty about going on about it.

I also write in a journal - this helps me tremendously. It's an outlet for me to get everything out completely and allows me to clear my head. And it's nice to go back and read my previous entries to let me see my own progress with how I'm handling things.

And sometimes I just find an activity I enjoy doing to get my mind of the triggers. LIke reading a book, watching one of my fav movies/shows or going out with friends.

Do you have any friends in the real world you can confide in?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Yes, I live with his mother. We sold our house and moved in to help take care of his father and mother. He left the house and i'm stuck here with the kids. Don't get me wrong, my MIL and I get along, but the hard part is, no matter what, my MIL will side with her son. So me or the kids can NOT say anything negative or show any emotions in front of her. We find ourselves hiding in our rooms a lot of times. 

I will have to find a job (never worked in the 20 years), get back into school, and find a place to live once the divorce is final. 

I'm starting to write here more to help me out. I was confiding in two very close friends who had gone through this too. I just found out that one of them was playing both sides. She was telling my husband everything I confided in her. So on top of the hurt and betrayal I was already going through, she added more to it.  

A journal is a great idea! I used to write in one. I think I'm going to start another this weekend.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Forget it ! Remember dumpers always blame the dumped for the fail of the marriage and never admit their faults , so don't expect apologizes right now.
> 
> One they when he sees what is out there and decide to ( willing ) come back to you, then he'll be sorry for everything , even for the dry season in the middle west .


THis is soo true BM! My STBXW blames me for our marriage falling apart! Everytime she talks to a friend, family, or aquaintance, it is the same song and dance. THe worse part is that 99.9% of them think the same as we do here. That she is just putting it all on me, and not accepting any responsibilty at all.

Your right, ONLY when they decide too really self reflect (which may take a long time) will they repent. 

My STBXW is still in "wrecking ball mode" and being irrisponsible and immature. While i sit and watch the he self-destruction from far far away.


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I will have to find a job (never worked in the 20 years), get back into school, and find a place to live once the divorce is final.


That's quite a list to accomplish but I'm sure as long as you keep a positive attitude and have plenty of determination you can't get it done.



Left With 4.5 said:


> I'm starting to write here more to help me out. I was confiding in two very close friends who had gone through this too. I just found out that one of them was playing both sides. She was telling my husband everything I confided in her. So on top of the hurt and betrayal I was already going through, she added more to it.


Whhhhaaaat???!!! That is no friend! That is a toxic person - I'd cut her off if I were you and at the very least give her a piece of my mind and tell her that I would no longer be confiding in her.



Left With 4.5 said:


> A journal is a great idea! I used to write in one. I think I'm going to start another this weekend.


Awesome! Glad I could be of some help!


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> I'm starting to write here more to help me out. I was confiding in two very close friends who had gone through this too. I just found out that one of them was playing both sides. She was telling my husband everything I confided in her. So on top of the hurt and betrayal I was already going through, she added more to it.


Great idea to write here . We're all your friends and we wont tell your STBMH anything 

With such a friends who need enemies ? As per 180 :



> Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS


and I can add - DON"T use your friends as THERAPISTS !


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> THis is soo true BM! My STBXW blames me for our marriage falling apart! Everytime she talks to a friend, family, or aquaintance, it is the same song and dance. THe worse part is that 99.9% of them think the same as we do here. That she is just putting it all on me, and not accepting any responsibilty at all.
> 
> Your right, ONLY when they decide too really self reflect (which may take a long time) will they repent.
> 
> My STBXW is still in "wrecking ball mode" and being irrisponsible and immature. While i sit and watch the he self-destruction from far far away.



Ah they all do that . If you want my advice - DON"T do the same she is doing ! That way you'll be watching her from 50K feet and one day when she realize you never did what she did , she will be ashamed and regret she lose such a cool guy !


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> THis is soo true BM! My STBXW blames me for our marriage falling apart! Everytime she talks to a friend, family, or aquaintance, it is the same song and dance. THe worse part is that 99.9% of them think the same as we do here. That she is just putting it all on me, and not accepting any responsibilty at all.
> 
> Your right, ONLY when they decide too really self reflect (which may take a long time) will they repent.
> 
> My STBXW is still in "wrecking ball mode" and being irrisponsible and immature. While i sit and watch the he self-destruction from far far away.


Your STBXW sounds just like my STBXH.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Great idea to write here . We're all your friends and we wont tell your STBMH anything
> 
> *I really appreciate the support here. *
> 
> ...


*I learned that lesson too.*

I've been keeping shut in front of my MIL. I said something one day about him visiting the kids and she went nuts. Learned my lesson there! Asking help from any or my WS's family is out of the question, so I don't even go there.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> Whhhhaaaat???!!! That is no friend! That is a toxic person - I'd cut her off if I were you and at the very least give her a piece of my mind and tell her that I would no longer be confiding in her!


Or use her as a double agent. Tell her things you want your ex to hear that may or may not be true. Could be useful in a devious sort of way


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> Or use her as a double agent. Tell her things you want your ex to hear that may or may not be true. Could be useful in a devious sort of way


Ooohhh! I like that thinking!


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Ooohhh! I like that thinking!


Nah , I think saying nothing is better !

Act cool , happy and confident and you'll see ! 

Confident people , think of a CEO for example , doesn't say much ! They're confident , calm, talk slow , walk slow , doesn't smile or laugh and everyone respect them. Do the same around him and you'll see .


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

Your right big mac... i just did the exchange of the kids tonite. We did small talk, happy talk, smiled, and she left. 

But me cool, calm, collected, and alpha. Told her, not asked, that i was going to take kids one extra day next week. She was not happy bout that but oddly enuff agreed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> Your right big mac... i just did the exchange of the kids tonite. We did small talk, happy talk, smiled, and she left.
> 
> But me cool, calm, collected, and alpha. Told her, not asked, that i was going to take kids one extra day next week. She was not happy bout that but oddly enuff agreed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you!


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> Your right big mac... i just did the exchange of the kids tonite. We did small talk, happy talk, smiled, and she left.
> 
> But me cool, calm, collected, and alpha. Told her, not asked, that i was going to take kids one extra day next week. She was not happy bout that but oddly enuff agreed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You see , woman respect decisive man ! 

Great job , please continue the same way and she'll respect you more and more every day , don't ask her about her opinion just say and do it!

Good luck and stay strong.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks BM, today i cant help but think about her, or at least the OLD her. She has lost weight too and I am still very much attracted to her. 

I cant help but think about how happy we and the kids would be if she would get her head screwed on straight and soften her heart. I felt like we made a baby step in that she and I giggled a little bit about something funny. 

Also she made an odd statement about our finances i stated,"its just money, just have to go make more" regarding a $1500 car repair to her old car before i sell it, she said nicely "too bad we did not think this way in our marriage". I ignored it, did not pay much attention to it, or her for that matter.

I dont want to get sucked into the vortex of trying to figure out what the H*ll her thought process is, but makes my mind wonder. I am still cautiously hopeful, with my guard up, and 180 in full effect.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> I dont want to get sucked into the vortex of trying to figure out what the H*ll her thought process is, but makes my mind wonder.


YES ! DON'T ! I'm doing this fault and that causes most of my issues.

And I see you're doing very well and you're very conscious on what and how.

Just keep on 180 and you'll see.

It is normal to think about her , we all do that despite lots of people hare say no.

And is normal to be attracted to her , why did you married her if you weren't


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

THnx! 

What makes it hard is that as of the kiddo exchange last nite we are going to start a new sched that i suggested. But that means i do not see the kids for 5 days straight, this in order for me to get every other weekend off.(W-F, then Th-Su). I want to call and ask to see the kids on her time, but i refrain always, this is to let her see what her new life will be like (S2.5mnths) w/o me. 

It is safe to assume that i will have NC with her until a drop off or p/u. What is frusterating is, that she wants this for our kids. 

I am venting, better to do it here that at her!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Triggers. TRIGGERS! How does one get over it? I'm taking deep breadths and shaking it off but my head is hurting, my jaws are tightening, and my throat is constricting. I think i'm about to get a nervous breakdown. I'm trying so hard to be the bigger person. It's killing me! 

My ex was over to drop off the younger kids. The older ones and I were in the kitchen cooking dinner. He stayed around and made small talk with the older ones about food and started to tell them that he made a fancy appetizer to bring over to a friend's party, and told in detail how he made it. Right in front of me. All I could do was smile and said, 'It really sounds delicious.'

I stepped into another room and was shaking. I wanted to cry because, throughout our marriage, he has NEVER made anything for a party or cooked anything for me or the family. I always asked if he would like to help me prepare a meal etc, but he always preferred the television. It just hurts me so bad that he's doing all these things with his MOW and never made an effort with me.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> THnx!
> 
> 
> I am venting, better to do it here that at her!


Yes, vent here! That's what i'm doing.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Vent away!


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

4.5 how are you going? Is your divorce final yet? Pls send me a private message with an update and I'll fill you in on the latest with mine. It got worse!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Broken, just saw this now. I will send you a PM. It's gotten worse here too. The divorce was supposed to end today, but the court is behind so no idea when. He still calls me and screams at me. I'm starting to feel afraid.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Why are you talking to him about anything other than the kids?

Record these calls in case you need to protect yourself against him legally. 

Also, why are you letting him "hang around" at pick up / drop off? Meet him at the door prepared with the kids and don't let him in the house. Do it with a smile, though. Be civil but protect your boundaries. 

Please review the No Contact / Limited Contact rules.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

LW 4.5, How are you doing? Are things manageable? Just checking.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Why are you talking to him about anything other than the kids?
> 
> Record these calls in case you need to protect yourself against him legally.
> 
> ...


Stay strong, I still live at his mother's house. Most times, I do meet him at the door with the kid and not let him in. Other times, he comes in because it is still somewhat his house because of his mother. It gets complicated and I have to suck it up. 

As for recording calls, I only recorded a couple of times and saved the messages he's left on my voicemail.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> LW 4.5, How are you doing? Are things manageable? Just checking.


Pluto, thanks for asking. Things are still the same. Roller coaster. I'm waiting for the papers to finalize so I can move forward to my next phase without worries. 

Things get calm usually for about 2-3 weeks before he goes nuts and calls me. He tried to call yesterday. I can hear the anger in his voice, so this time, I just answered his question about dropping off the daughter, thanked him and hung up. I turned off my phone after for just in case he would call back.


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## zappy88200 (Dec 6, 2012)

hi Left with 4.5 - Hope you are doing okay?

Zappy


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

The last time he called before yesterday was 2 weeks ago. His rant was the usual. He blamed ME for his depression. Blamed ME for him spending money on his doctor visits and paying for medication. (He is on antidepressants and still a LE). He said his psychiatrist agreed with him that "I" am the reason why he is depressed. "I" am the reason why the kids don't like him....said that "I" have manipulated the kids to not like him anymore. Said that "I" am the reason why he chose this path......I told him that all that was HIS doing and I can't help him with his problem. His girlfriend, who is 'nice' to him and 'understands' him can help him deal with it. I am no longer part of it. 

You know what? I didn't feel sorry for him. I felt indifference. I saw the light and realized that HE is CRAAAAZY!!!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

zappy88200 said:


> hi Left with 4.5 - Hope you are doing okay?
> 
> Zappy


Hi Zappy,

I am good. How are you? How are things going?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Please stop answering his phone calls. You know they will be rants. If he wants to see the kids he knows they are at his mothers house. 

Please stop putting yourself through this emotional abuse!


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Where are you in the D process? Can your lawyer ask for a psych evaluation based on these calls? I hope H is getting visitation only.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Please stop answering his phone calls. You know they will be rants. If he wants to see the kids he knows they are at his mothers house.
> 
> Please stop putting yourself through this emotional abuse!


I'm afraid of not answering his calls because he can come over and make a scene. I know I can always call the police if that happens, but he is a police also. He's told me before that I can call all I want, they won't do anything. IDK how much of that is true, I just don't want to mess with that for just in case.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Where are you in the D process? Can your lawyer ask for a psych evaluation based on these calls? I hope H is getting visitation only.


He is getting visitation only. The case is on default and he has signed for it. The court is behind and just got it in their system that they are working on it. It is a matter of time (days/weeks?) before the judge signs it.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sadly, I know only two well how hard it is to deal with a spouse in the midst of depression. They blame you for everything, mostly because they are unable to take responsibility for their own actions. Back when I tried MC, we were in the counselors office and I got bombarded with the "you're turning the kids against me" I said that was not true, that I have told the children that he suffered from depression and that the disease effects his responses, and that he loved them. He just said he didn't believe me. Nothing else to do at that point. Remember the diseas is likely the cause for his outburts, but the responsibility is completely on him. That's the part they can't deal with. They want no responsibility for their actions. Well, too bad for them. 
You sound ike you are holding it together. Ask you attorney if they would recommend informing the police about some of your H statements. It might be good to get those on record.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I'm afraid of not answering his calls because he can come over and make a scene. I know I can always call the police if that happens, but he is a police also. He's told me before that I can call all I want, they won't do anything. IDK how much of that is true, I just don't want to mess with that for just in case.


4.5: I get this too "they won't do anything I know how the system works" or "they'll believe me over you". Don't listen to it, that is not the case.

Once when he was in one his fits, put his fist through a door and kicked over a bookcase, I told him I need you to leave or I'll call the police, he went nuts. To this day he carries on about how I "tried to ruin his career". Unbelieveable - HE was the one putting me in a very frightening situation and making me feel unsafe and I am trying to ruin his career??? I never called, he stormed out and stayed out that night.

Manipulation from a crazy sick mind, actually this sort of garbage is what I've been putting up with for years. Not anymore


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Sadly, I know only two well how hard it is to deal with a spouse in the midst of depression. They blame you for everything, mostly because they are unable to take responsibility for their own actions. Back when I tried MC, we were in the counselors office and I got bombarded with the "you're turning the kids against me" I said that was not true, that I have told the children that he suffered from depression and that the disease effects his responses, and that he loved them. He just said he didn't believe me. Nothing else to do at that point. Remember the diseas is likely the cause for his outburts, but the responsibility is completely on him. That's the part they can't deal with. They want no responsibility for their actions. Well, too bad for them.
> You sound ike you are holding it together. Ask you attorney if they would recommend informing the police about some of your H statements. It might be good to get those on record.


My ex doesn't believe I do any good at all. No matter what I tell him. According to him, I am evil. He thinks I 'manipulated' (he uses that word on me alot) the kids, the marriage, his depression, the divorce, everything wrong in his life. He's got some really crazy outbursts and the things he says are so off the wall, I can't help but think he's totally lost it. All I can do is focus on me, the kids, and the light at the end of the tunnel.

My lawyer told me to file a restraining order against him for the harassment. I'm not sure if it's a good idea. I'm afraid it will make him go off the edge and do more.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> 4.5: I get this too "they won't do anything I know how the system works" or "they'll believe me over you". Don't listen to it, that is not the case.
> 
> Once when he was in one his fits, put his fist through a door and kicked over a bookcase, I told him I need you to leave or I'll call the police, he went nuts. To this day he carries on about how I "tried to ruin his career". Unbelieveable - HE was the one putting me in a very frightening situation and making me feel unsafe and I am trying to ruin his career??? I never called, he stormed out and stayed out that night.
> 
> Manipulation from a crazy sick mind, actually this sort of garbage is what I've been putting up with for years. Not anymore


Broken, I know you and I are not the only LE wives out there in this same situation. Do you know of any resources out there to protect ourselves?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> My ex doesn't believe I do any good at all. No matter what I tell him. According to him, I am evil. He thinks I 'manipulated' (he uses that word on me alot) the kids, the marriage, his depression, the divorce, everything wrong in his life. He's got some really crazy outbursts and the things he says are so off the wall, I can't help but think he's totally lost it. All I can do is focus on me, the kids, and the light at the end of the tunnel.
> *
> My lawyer told me to file a restraining order against him for the harassment. I'm not sure if it's a good idea. I'm afraid it will make him go off the edge and do more*.


Ok well, if you DON'T file it and he goes off the handle anyways, aren't you going to wish you did file it to protect yourself??

If your lawyer is recommending it, I would not take that lightly


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Ok well, if you DON'T file it and he goes off the handle anyways, aren't you going to wish you did file it to protect yourself??
> 
> If your lawyer is recommending it, I would not take that lightly


I know, i'm weighing all options right now. Vi_bride, I just PM'd you.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I finally talked to a Domestic Violence officer yesterday. Gave me some good info and direction. I know what I need to do now and will take the proper steps. Restraining order will be the last step because his employer may take his gun and he wont be able to work on the field....which means either desk job or unemployment. I am trying to avoid his 'unemployment' part.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Wow I came over to read your posts. You have your hands full! The day my H left he came in the house to tell the kids he was leaving ( long story explained on my original thread) and I was so furious I blurted out " your father is moving out-hes not happy with me- hes found someone else. It was that or I was going to throw something at him. ( and im the easygoing one) As much as a part of me says I shouldn't have done that it put everything out there. He couldn't spin his sorry story to them. At the time I didn't realize it but I think it put me in charge of the situation before he could spin it his way


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Wow I came over to read your posts. You have your hands full! The day my H left he came in the house to tell the kids he was leaving ( long story explained on my original thread) and I was so furious I blurted out " your father is moving out-hes not happy with me- hes found someone else. It was that or I was going to throw something at him. ( and im the easygoing one) As much as a part of me says I shouldn't have done that it put everything out there. He couldn't spin his sorry story to them. At the time I didn't realize it but I think it put me in charge of the situation before he could spin it his way


I'm glad you did that and YES, it did put you in charge of the situation that you did not ask for. I hope your H won't blame 'you' as mine is doing. I feel that I don't need to protect HIS lies with more lies. It's not fair to me or my family. 

You'll be okay. You sound really strong. Hang in there.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Absolutely. I have convinced myself that the person who cheats are the weak ones - not us. I need to remind myself of that every day especially when my thoughts begin to run wild. I know this sounds silly but I have to hope and pray in the old saying - what goes around comes around- while I work on getting myself together. You are doing remarkable especially considering your living situation and the pressure your under!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Like your user name, i'm just taking small steps at a time.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

So I have started taking my 'steps' to protect myself. I know i should have done it months ago, but I always thought it was part of going through divorce. All those crazy phone calls by him, where he would scream, call me names, put me down, blame me....i finally realized that it was abuse. I have been abused mentally for years. 

I never had a reason to want to protect myself until recently. He dared me to call the police. Told me they won't do anything because he knows how the police works. In the 22 years i've known him, he's never raised his voice or scared me. I am so scared now. I'm scared of what he could do. Scared that he won't be able to control himself with all the anger and hatred towards me. 

I will never understand why he would hate ME so much and blame ME for everything wrong in his life. He wanted to be with her....I let him go. He wanted a divorce (no separation...straight divorce)...I gave it to him. I gave him everything he wanted...why hate me?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Someone who acts like that hates themselves and projects it out to others, especially ones who are willing to take it. He berates you as such to keep you in that position, you're his verbal punching bag for when his life doesn't turn out the way he thought it would.

The thing about it, is you can take steps to start protecting yourself and you should not allow the fear he tries to ingrain in you to prevent you from bettering yourself and your situation. This is about you, not him.

It's in your best interest to reduce the verbal and increase the actions, as you said you are now doing. Which is good.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

He's taking out his frustrations on you because he has no idea how to cope with it himself. You don't need to take it. Its not your fault. You are right - this is what he wanted now he has to deal with it - you shouldn't have to be involved with any of his drama. Try to keep as much distance as your can and do what you need to do to protect yourself!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> He's taking out his frustrations on you because he has no idea how to cope with it himself. You don't need to take it. Its not your fault. You are right - this is what he wanted now he has to deal with it - you shouldn't have to be involved with any of his drama. Try to keep as much distance as your can and do what you need to do to protect yourself!


You are absolutely right. I don't need to take any of it, yet I have been for months. I really think it's his antidepressants that's making him have those crazy outbursts. It's as if he can't control it. Either way, I don't call him, I don't bother him, I don't look at him and I try to avoid him as much as i can.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

That's good. It could be his medication but it doesn't excuse the way hes treating you.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Update to my filing. I just got the judgement packet yesterday and my divorce had gone through. I am now officially DIVORCED from him. I got EVERYTHING I asked for so now, i can officially get away from him and his mother.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Congratulations! Now you can get on with your own life with you & your kids!


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> So I have started taking my 'steps' to protect myself. I know i should have done it months ago, but I always thought it was part of going through divorce. All those crazy phone calls by him, where he would scream, call me names, put me down, blame me....i finally realized that it was abuse. I have been abused mentally for years.
> 
> I never had a reason to want to protect myself until recently. He dared me to call the police. Told me they won't do anything because he knows how the police works. In the 22 years i've known him, he's never raised his voice or scared me. I am so scared now. I'm scared of what he could do. Scared that he won't be able to control himself with all the anger and hatred towards me.
> 
> I will never understand why he would hate ME so much and blame ME for everything wrong in his life. He wanted to be with her....I let him go. He wanted a divorce (no separation...straight divorce)...I gave it to him. I gave him everything he wanted...why hate me?


4.5: I feel exactly the same way. Since I wouldn't take him back and started the divorce I am trying to tuin his life. WTH? HE was the one who cheated for years then abandoned the family. He was the one out banging some sleaze and getting her pregnant. Posting pics all over facebook of them together, publicly humiliating me. HE was the one who told me so many times he can't stand me, I made his life miserable. And now somehow I'M the evil one. I'm giving him everything he asked for too. DIVORCE. Now I'm out to "get him" and "screw him over".

Is he kidding? Victim all the way.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> 4.5: I feel exactly the same way. Since I wouldn't take him back and started the divorce I am trying to tuin his life. WTH? HE was the one who cheated for years then abandoned the family. He was the one out banging some sleaze and getting her pregnant. Posting pics all over facebook of them together, publicly humiliating me. HE was the one who told me so many times he can't stand me, I made his life miserable. And now somehow I'M the evil one. I'm giving him everything he asked for too. DIVORCE. Now I'm out to "get him" and "screw him over".
> 
> Is he kidding? Victim all the way.


:iagree::iagree:Yep. He's the victim in all this and you're the evil one who's destroying his happiness....give me a break!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Here's my latest dilemma. I thought with the divorce finalized, everything would be done and we can move on. My ex came over today to visit the kids and told me that he will take me to court because he felt 'BETRAYED' that I told him the court will decide on what the child support would be and that it would be a certain amount. But when he got the court order on Saturday, he said that the paper said a different amount. He says he feels that I had BETRAYED his trust, because he had trusted me in this matter. 

It is a difference of about $400. When doing the default papers, I took out the 400 from spousal and put it into the child support....for tax purposes. The total amount is only $100 more a month than what I was getting the past 8 years (to round it off).

Now remember, I served him the petition over 8 months ago. He NEVER responded. I told him I was filing for Default, he never responded. The day I asked him to sign the default judgement papers, he drove himself to the notary and had his signature notarized. I believe he had more than enough time to read any of the papers he had sent to him, including the one he had on his hand when he drove himself to get his signature notarized. He told me he NEVER read any of it.....only based it on his TRUST of what I said.

I thought to myself, honestly, WHO signs papers, contracts, or anything without ever reading it? 


Another dilemma. He filed jointly on the tax returns and is keeping the whole refund amount. I asked him if I can have half of it because I feel that I am entitled to it (my name is on it) and that it would really help me out on paying my COBRA premiums, so i can have my surgery. He said no, he's not giving me any because if he owed money, HE would be paying it. I agreed with him on that one, because I never worked. But, I did tell him that if he didn't pay, the government would go after me because my name is on the tax returns also. What to do?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Hes playing the victim. I think any court would be pissed if he wasted their time because he felt "betrayed" because he didn't read his own paperwork. Why are they such idiots?!! Sorry - I woke up a bit low on tolerance for walk away spouses. Lol!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Sucks to be him. Maybe next time he will be a responsible adult and READ any documents drawn up by a lawyer.

These little boy men who pay the poor me victim status make me sick.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Ladies, I can relate to your stories so much. 
My husband has blamed me and continued to blame me for the last two years for everything. He is the one who left eight months ago and had a EA that now months later turned in a PA. I have been in IC for a couple years trying to work on issues (ADHD etc...) I have been very open after 23 years to try and make it work. But of course, he wont go to IC or MC to work on our problems.

It seems like each week he gets more and more angry with me. 

I don't get it. He should be so happy, he has a rental house in the woods to watch the deer, his "girlfriend", sees his kids a few days a week, has a little money and can do whatever he wants. 
Why be mad and upset..."YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED"??? :scratchhead:

And by the way LEFT there is no way anyone will listen to him after he signed those papers....he is toast.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

What the hell is he proposing to challenge anyway? You got State mandated/guideline support. If he thinks they are going to change that he's dreaming.

Let him keep blowing steam. I don't think he has a leg to stand on.

TRY NOT TO LISTEN to his crazy talk. He's lost his mind. He's pissed his life is now a pile of s&^t and you seem to be doing ok. He's pissed because he did it to himself and now he's living the life in the "greener grass" and turns out it's looking like dead grass.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Another dilemma. He filed jointly on the tax returns and is keeping the whole refund amount. I asked him if I can have half of it because I feel that I am entitled to it (my name is on it) and that it would really help me out on paying my COBRA premiums, so i can have my surgery. He said no, he's not giving me any because if he owed money, HE would be paying it. I agreed with him on that one, because I never worked. But, I did tell him that if he didn't pay, the government would go after me because my name is on the tax returns also. What to do?


Is there anything in the divorce decree regarding filing taxes and the tax return? There should be some sort of provision in there.

And I know I already responded earlier...but tell him to go ahead and take you to court. He doesn't have a leg to stand on and shouldn't be able to claim "Emotional damages" for a legal document THAT HE SIGNED and DEFAULTED on. My ex defaulted on the divorce as well. It has worked out so good in my favor. Anytime he tries to complain to my lawyer about something they remind him of the terms in the decree and he backs off. These men back down from actual "authority" like a scared feral cat. 

Oh and yes, he is also very pissed off at me and DESPISES me. He is the one I caught in an EA and he got married 2 weeks after our divorce was signed by the judge. Why be mad? His life should be a bushel of roses and butterflies.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> What the hell is he proposing to challenge anyway? *You got State mandated/guideline support.* If he thinks they are going to change that he's dreaming.
> 
> Let him keep blowing steam. I don't think he has a leg to stand on.
> 
> TRY NOT TO LISTEN to his crazy talk. He's lost his mind. He's pissed his life is now a pile of s&^t and you seem to be doing ok. He's pissed because he did it to himself and now he's living the life in the "greener grass" and turns out it's looking like dead grass.


He's saying that it's $400 over what I verbally told him. But the whole spousal and child support combined is only $100 more than what I've been getting for the past 8 years. So why complain? I was generous and kept it within a $100 difference to what he's been paying.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> Ladies, I can relate to your stories so much.
> My husband has blamed me and continued to blame me for the last two years for everything. He is the one who left eight months ago and had a EA that now months later turned in a PA. I have been in IC for a couple years trying to work on issues (ADHD etc...) I have been very open after 23 years to try and make it work. But of course, he wont go to IC or MC to work on our problems.
> 
> It seems like each week he gets more and more angry with me.
> ...


:iagree::iagree:Exactly! He got what he wanted! He's free to do what he wants, when he wants, he's got his 'true love' by his side, sees the kids a couple of hours about 2 days a week....why hate me for giving him his peace and freedom?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Is there anything in the divorce decree regarding filing taxes and the tax return? There should be some sort of provision in there.
> 
> *No, I didn't put anything on the decree about filing taxes and returns. I was sincere when I told him that it would really help me out in paying the COBRA, because I really needed it. *
> 
> ...


:iagree:


He also told me that he's cutting his hours so the supports would be less and I would have no say in that.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> He also told me that he's cutting his hours so the supports would be less and I would have no say in that.


Man this guy would cut off his nose to spite his face!

I say call his bluffs. He won't take you to court, he won't cut his hours...they are all attempts to mind f*ck you and get under your skin. And the tax return thing....the really upsets me. Its not like you are saying "Hey, I need the money to go on an all inclusive vacation" you need it for your health....

That right there really shows the [email protected] that he is...so sorry you have to deal with such a narcissistic jerk!

Can you talk to your lawyer about the tax return to see what can be done?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I don't have a lawyer but will call our CPA. We used the same CPA for 18 years and this year, he decided to use TurboTax. He basically electronically signed my name without me knowing or consenting.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I don't have a lawyer but will call our CPA. We used the same CPA for 18 years and this year, he decided to use TurboTax. He basically electronically signed my name without me knowing or consenting.


I'm assuming that is against the law and he could get in big trouble for that.....

Yes please talk to your CPA right away.

ETA: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity? 

Check out the IRS site for fraud on tax returns...


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

There's nothing I can do since it wasn't written on the decree and I didn't work. If I worked, I can do an amendment. 


Can he take me to court and say that what I said did not match what I wrote? I told him to read his papers many times...


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

The amount he signed for is what the judge agreed and signed off on. It was the same amount written on the papers.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

So if he's thinking he's going to file a motion/amendment to lower child and spousal support well he's in for a surprise.

In CA, judges will only lower it in EXTREME circumstances. For example... complete loss of job. Death, extended illness.

They will not lower it because the working spouse decides he's pissed about paying and VOLUNTARILY lowers his hours to get an amendment to support.

It wont fly. I can assure you. It is based on his EXPECTED ability to pay. Not if and when he feels like working. The FLF told me just the other day they won't lower or raise support unless there is more than at least 10% difference, and it has to be for a very good reason. The judge will see he is trying to dodge support. He's blowing smoke out of his a##

Tell him go ahead.... youll see him in court.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

This is really reassuring to know. What is FLF?


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> This is really reassuring to know. What is FLF?


FLF is the family law facilitor guy at the courthouse 

It's not easy to get a reduction in support after final judgement. Your ex will have to show extraordinary circumstances.. not just being too lazy or spiteful to work and earn what he is capable of 

Let him keep talking crap!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

4.5 - if you are not sure what the rules and laws are regarding support and divorce settlements, do some research. Knowledge is power and really, your ex is just trying to intimidate you.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

So TODAY he tells me that he's taking me to court because he wants to have overnights with the kids. He had NEVER done that throughout the 8-9mos while waiting for the divorce to finalize. Now, that it's finalized, 1st he said he will lower the payments, now he says he wants the kids to spend nights with him on his days. 

I'm sure someone, possibly a lawyer, is telling him this. All the stuff he didn't care to respond or fight over, he's going to do it now that he got the final judgement.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> So TODAY he tells me that he's taking me to court because he wants to have overnights with the kids. He had NEVER done that throughout the 8-9mos while waiting for the divorce to finalize. Now, that it's finalized, 1st he said he will lower the payments, now he says he wants the kids to spend nights with him on his days.
> 
> I'm sure someone, possibly a lawyer, is telling him this. All the stuff he didn't care to respond or fight over, he's going to do it now that he got the final judgement.


He's too stupid and broke to get a lawyer, I'll tell you excatly who's telling him this:

*HIS WORKMATES*. Yes the other sad, pathetic cops who have been through divorces and think they know it all. They all love to play quasi-attorneys.

I know this because my STBXH's fellow cops are all telling him the same thing. The judge will be UNLIKELY to alter the final judgement, especially since he didn't contest it and you have been a stay at home mom for so long and the kid's primary caregiver.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I don't know. His threats are real now. I can't go through this again. Just when it's all over and we're planning on moving on, he's going from one angle to another. I asked him why he's doing this now when he had all that time to read his papers. Why wait till the divorce was final? He said that he changed his mind.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Any other TAMers out there gone through this?


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I don't know. His threats are real now. I can't go through this again. Just when it's all over and we're planning on moving on, he's going from one angle to another. I asked him why he's doing this now when he had all that time to read his papers. Why wait till the divorce was final? *He said that he changed his mind*.


I get that too. He agrees to something then BAM he does something else and tells me he's changed his mind. Pyscho at his best. He's nuts.

He's probably doing it out of self-hate. He may have taken a look at what he's made of his life and what he's done to his family. Who knows.

My STBXH just informed me he took a loan out against OUR joint 457 retirement account, after I filed. I asked him not to weeks ago (he's broke) he went ahead and did it anyway. After I filed and there's a restraining order in those papers saying he can't encumber our assets in any way until the legal separation is final and our assets have been split.

Is he crazy? Yes. (Well he definitely is crazy - banging his daughter's friend w/out protection) And it seems so is your ex.

Hang in there, I know the stress is unbelieveable. I feel it too and I know exactly what you are going through. You just want to be rid of him and his drama and get on with your life.

I had my annual physical last week and my Doc prescribed valium for me. Haven't taken any yet but I explained to her I am not depressed I just get anxious and angry when he drops yet another bomb.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Broken- I am so sorry you are still going through your mess. 

I have to tell you that when my ex left today, I got a text from him. It said "On my way home." I had to laugh because I KNOW it was not meant for me! I text him back and said "OK, but you just left." No reply. hahaha


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

So today, April 15th, is one year from D-Day. I woke up with mixed emotions. I was thinking back to the shock and pain when I found out, how he told me he was leaving me to be with her, the look on my boys faces when they opened up their dad's cell phone and read the text messages and found out that daddy had been cheating on mommy and the sadness on my little girl's face on her birthday. She tried so hard to be good, so daddy would stay....

Now, a year later, I am a divorced woman. The kids and I have been moving on steadily, but not without some drama here and there from the father. My Ex is still with the MOW, he's still seeing a psychiatrist regularly and taking antidepressants.

Looking back from D-day, I am thankful that I saw the light to file and continue with the divorce.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Take the time to reflect on how far you've come since then. It will only get better as time passes. You've made it this far - just keep on going!!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

It's so much easier said than done. Seems like every time I think I made it to the end of a tunnel, i'm thrown right back into another. Sometimes I feel so alone and trapped in this house with my mother in law. I noticed a change of atmosphere as soon as my divorce was finalized. All of a sudden, i'm a outcast. I get treated and talked to differently now. 

My brother in law and his wife will be moving in the end of the month, just days before my surgery. It's going to be really interesting to see how all this plays out. I'm pretty sure anything I say or do will go straight to my ex's ears.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> It's so much easier said than done. Seems like every time I think I made it to the end of a tunnel, i'm thrown right back into another. Sometimes I feel so alone and trapped in this house with my mother in law. I noticed a change of atmosphere as soon as my divorce was finalized. All of a sudden, i'm a outcast. I get treated and talked to differently now.
> 
> My brother in law and his wife will be moving in the end of the month, just days before my surgery. It's going to be really interesting to see how all this plays out. I'm pretty sure anything I say or do will go straight to my ex's ears.


For what it's worth every time my ex would threaten me with kid related court actions I'd wish him good luck and tell him I'd see him in court. Of course it never happened.....if you show him any weakness whatsoever he will use it against you. Believe me, i have experienced this. Don't discuss anything and stop asking him why he's doing anything, it makes you look weak and gives him all the power. Simply wish him luck and pay him no mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> For what it's worth every time my ex would threaten me with kid related court actions I'd wish him good luck and tell him I'd see him in court. Of course it never happened.....if you show him any weakness whatsoever he will use it against you. Believe me, i have experienced this. Don't discuss anything and stop asking him why he's doing anything, it makes you look weak and gives him all the power. Simply wish him luck and pay him no mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Best advice of the day! Thank you! I do realize now that the more I looked or sounded intimidated, the more he threatened me. It's like a game to him.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

It is a game: called I'm in control and I have the power. Same thing I experience with my ex. How much can he make me squirm?

How ironic: today when I was at the advocate's office she pulled out this big binder full of info, charts, reports and said "oh yes I've dealt with plenty of narcissistic cops before, I know all their tricks". Hahahaaa.. seems like your ex and mine are not rarities after all.

I never asked, but how did all this come about? Did he just tell you one day about the OW and say I'm leaving? Were things ok before that or were you aware the relationship was going downhill??


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> It is a game: called I'm in control and I have the power. Same thing I experience with my ex. How much can he make me squirm?
> 
> How ironic: today when I was at the advocate's office she pulled out this big binder full of info, charts, reports and said "oh yes I've dealt with plenty of narcissistic cops before, I know all their tricks". Hahahaaa.. seems like your ex and mine are not rarities after all.
> 
> ...


Things were ok. We were still very affectionate despite the fact that he stopped sleeping with me for 5 months (before I found out) and kept telling me that he was stressed about his work, stressed about his dad dying, stressed about getting our oldest into college, stressed about possibly ending up with alzheimers in 20 years. I kept asking him if there were someone else, he insisted NO but he would get mad at me for the tiniest things. All Red Flags, i know now. But this was before I found TAM and found some friends....he kept me isolated for most of my marriage, so I didn't really have friends. 

It was about 2 months prior D-Day that he was drinking heavily. He would go to Costco and buy the giant sized Tequila or Jack Daniels and drink it by the glassfull when he gets home from work. It was really scaring me! I kept the kids away from him because he would get very snappy. 

A couple of weeks before D-Day, my sons told me that they felt that things weren't right and for me to keep an eye on their dad for clues. I was so busy taking care of this 7bdrm/4ba house, taking care of my father in law (who had alzheimers), taking care of my mother in laws needs, the four kids, carpooling, school service hours for 2 schools, everything. Things my ex should have helped, but I picked up his slack for him because that's what families do....and he was 'depressed'.

The day I found out, it was my boys who took their dad's phone and broke into it. There were texts and emails between the two and I knew the woman's name right away. It was his high school girlfriend. They broke up when he was 19 and she was 15. 

I confronted him and he said "Yes, it just happened." "It was only for two months." (trickle truths) "I'm leaving you, for her." "I've been miserable for 20 years and I want to be happy." 

So from there on, you pretty much know. All the screaming, yelling, the anger and hatred in his voice, the accusing, blaming, and scaring me with his confessions of wanting to put the gun in his mouth (he told me 3 different times through the years)...it's not worth fighting for. I can't risk me or the kids sanity and lives for this.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi left- you're still in your mother in laws house? It must be making your situation even harder. I'm so sorry.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Hi left- you're still in your mother in laws house? It must be making your situation even harder. I'm so sorry.


Yes, unfortunately I'm still at my MIL house. I didn't want to move out until my divorce was final and the kids were out of school. I have my surgery in two weeks and hopefully she will help take care of me for a day or two (she offered). We'll see how that goes. 

It's been tough since the divorce was final. I feel so out casted and being watched for anything I do or say. My brother in law and his wife is moving here the end of the month, so it will be even harder then.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I cant imagine what you're going through. Its good she offered to help for a couple of days after the surgery - take her up on it. Hopefully once you get past the next couple of months & the kids are out of school you can get the heck out of there & on with your own life. Try to distract yourself from feeling like you're in a fishbowl - even if you just get outside the house & sit to clear your head or take walks. Just take breaks from them when it gets overwhelming.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

When are you having surgery?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Best advice of the day! Thank you! I do realize now that the more I looked or sounded intimidated, the more he threatened me. It's like a game to him.


You're very welcome! If he tells you again that he deserves to be happy you should agree with him and tell him to leave. Tell him you've put up with 20 years of him and it's time for you to be happy too. Treat him like he doesn't matter, because he doesn't, and watch his attitude change. Worked for me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> When are you having surgery?


May 2nd. I think I posted on my 'Early Stages of Cancer' thread.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Sorry I missed it on that one - I'm not on here as much as I used to be. I'll keep up with your threads - I'll be thinking if you & sending good wishes your way.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

How are you doing, Smallsteps?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm actually doing pretty well - things are all still the same the ex an I are seperated & rarely speak except for financial issues which so far there are no arguments over & we really don't see each other ive seen him once in February - that's it. I guess it is the best way to heal if its possible. Him giving me that space has given me time to reflect on our marriage & realize that I wasn't as happy as I thought & take responsibility for my part. What he does for himself is his issue because no matter what his response to handeling our problems (ow & leaving) are all on him. I have connected with old friends who I get together with every few weeks & ive met new people online who have been so supportive in making me realize what I want if I ever get the chance to find someone again. Ive learned how to clear my head when everything starts closing in. I guess I'm moving on slowly but surely. It helps when people see me & say I'm starting to resemble the person I was 25 years ago lol! My kids are adjusted & happy. Not as much screaming - yelling & tension in the house so they are happier. I guess in the end he did me a favor-although I did not see it at the time. I know there will still be challenges ahead but I think I will be able to handle them. I wish the same for you. I hope everything starts to turn around for you so you can get on with things too.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> I'm actually doing pretty well - things are all still the same the ex an I are seperated & rarely speak except for financial issues which so far there are no arguments over & we really don't see each other ive seen him once in February - that's it. I guess it is the best way to heal if its possible. Him giving me that space has given me time to reflect on our marriage & realize that I wasn't as happy as I thought & take responsibility for my part. What he does for himself is his issue because no matter what his response to handeling our problems (ow & leaving) are all on him. I have connected with old friends who I get together with every few weeks & ive met new people online who have been so supportive in making me realize what I want if I ever get the chance to find someone again. Ive learned how to clear my head when everything starts closing in. I guess I'm moving on slowly but surely. It helps when people see me & say I'm starting to resemble the person I was 25 years ago lol! My kids are adjusted & happy. Not as much screaming - yelling & tension in the house so they are happier. I guess in the end he did me a favor-although I did not see it at the time. I know there will still be challenges ahead but I think I will be able to handle them. I wish the same for you. I hope everything starts to turn around for you so you can get on with things too.


Sounds like you're moving along just fine. I'm proud of you.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

If it's not one thing, it's another. Today is 1 month post divorce. I've done okay until last night. My oldest son (18yo) ran away to go live with his father. He didn't like me suggesting him getting a part time job to help finance his extra activities (vacations, tattoos, restaurants with girl friend, presents for his girlfriend, etc). My supports only provide the basics and anything extra, he shouldn't have to ask me or his grandma for. After all, he likes reminding me that he's 18 now. 

I feel that I was very fair. He accused me of adding another thing to his already stressful plate. After some arguments, he called his father and told him that he's moving in with him. I found out this morning that he ended up spending the night at his girlfriend's place.

I was trying to get my ex to co-parent me on this situation. All I get is a "I'll talk to him tonite when he comes over after school."

It's so frustrating and hurtful. I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and cater to my son, who's obviously taking advantage of our situation.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> If it's not one thing, it's another. Today is 1 month post divorce. I've done okay until last night. My oldest son (18yo) ran away to go live with his father. He didn't like me suggesting him getting a part time job to help finance his extra activities (vacations, tattoos, restaurants with girl friend, presents for his girlfriend, etc). My supports only provide the basics and anything extra, he shouldn't have to ask me or his grandma for. After all, he likes reminding me that he's 18 now.
> 
> I feel that I was very fair. He accused me of adding another thing to his already stressful plate. After some arguments, he called his father and told him that he's moving in with him. I found out this morning that he ended up spending the night at his girlfriend's place.
> 
> ...


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Left With 4.5 said:
> 
> 
> > If it's not one thing, it's another. Today is 1 month post divorce. I've done okay until last night. My oldest son (18yo) ran away to go live with his father. He didn't like me suggesting him getting a part time job to help finance his extra activities (vacations, tattoos, restaurants with girl friend, presents for his girlfriend, etc). My supports only provide the basics and anything extra, he shouldn't have to ask me or his grandma for. After all, he likes reminding me that he's 18 now.
> ...


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

My ex actually said it to them this weekend. They went for piazza and according to my daughter - the 20 year old was loud & not listening when his father asked him to quiet down because he was talking too loud. As they were in the parking lot saying goodbye the 20 year old came out with a rude comment about something & the ex said " ok - goodbye ive had enough now - see you next week"


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> smallsteps said:
> 
> 
> > Smallsteps- You are absolutely right!
> ...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> smallsteps said:
> 
> 
> > Smallsteps- You are absolutely right!
> ...


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Left With 4.5 said:
> 
> 
> > :iagree::iagree:
> ...


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

How did everything go with your son? Any progress?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

He stopped by to get more stuff while I was out yesterday. Don't know where he slept last night. Deleted me on Facebook. He has 2 cell phones (spoiled, i know), so i have suspended service for the one I pay for. IF he decides to live with his father, I will take my car back. He can figure out how to get to school on his own.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

My ex is adamant about having the kids overnights at his house now. I still believe it's all child support based. He was never around while we were married, only visited the kids a couple a hours a week during separation, and as soon as he got the decree he was pissed about the child support. Two days later, he said he wants the kids half time...50%. Tell me all this is NOT $$ based!

Yesterday was 1 month post divorce. As much as he says he wants the kids MORE, he's still consistent on visiting them a couple hours a week.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> My ex is adamant about having the kids overnights at his house now. I still believe it's all child support based. He was never around while we were married, only visited the kids a couple a hours a week during separation, and as soon as he got the decree he was pissed about the child support. Two days later, he said he wants the kids half time...50%. Tell me all this is NOT $$ based!
> 
> Yesterday was 1 month post divorce. As much as he says he wants the kids MORE, he's still consistent on visiting them a couple hours a week.


Of course its child support based. Same with my ex, hes worked swing shifts for the past 7 years and only saw our son on his 3 days off a week. Didn't see him at all during the week because he was asleep when my son went to school and gone to work when he came home from school.

But all of a sudden he wants all this custody time.

Let him ask all he wants. If he files a change of custody request with the court you will get to lay out your case with a mediator. Believe me if you write your case right, they won't change a thing. I can give you tips.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> He stopped by to get more stuff while I was out yesterday. Don't know where he slept last night. Deleted me on Facebook. He has 2 cell phones (spoiled, i know), so i have suspended service for the one I pay for. IF he decides to live with his father, I will take my car back. He can figure out how to get to school on his own.


My daughter blocked me on facebook years ago lol! Heck yeah - why should you be paying for his cell phone - especially if he has two & I would get your car back. Its a privilage not a right. Hes got to realize that if he wants to act like hes acting - then his benefits stop.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> My ex is adamant about having the kids overnights at his house now. I still believe it's all child support based. He was never around while we were married, only visited the kids a couple a hours a week during separation, and as soon as he got the decree he was pissed about the child support. Two days later, he said he wants the kids half time...50%. Tell me all this is NOT $$ based!
> 
> Yesterday was 1 month post divorce. As much as he says he wants the kids MORE, he's still consistent on visiting them a couple hours a week.


Certainly sounds like it - how old are your kids again?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> My daughter blocked me on facebook years ago lol! Heck yeah - why should you be paying for his cell phone - especially if he has two & I would get your car back. Its a privilage not a right. Hes got to realize that if he wants to act like hes acting - then his benefits stop.


:iagree::iagree:Glad we're both are on the same page!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> Of course its child support based. Same with my ex, hes worked swing shifts for the past 7 years and only saw our son on his 3 days off a week. Didn't see him at all during the week because he was asleep when my son went to school and gone to work when he came home from school.
> 
> But all of a sudden he wants all this custody time.
> 
> Let him ask all he wants. If he files a change of custody request with the court you will get to lay out your case with a mediator. Believe me if you write your case right, they won't change a thing. I can give you tips.


I had a lawyer tell me that regardless of what I write, the judge would always want the father to spend more time with the kids.

I'm planning on moving out of the house in a couple of months and have found a perfect place out of state because living in Los Angeles is too expensive. I need him to approve...even though i have full physical custody.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Certainly sounds like it - how old are your kids again?


18,15, 7 and 4


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

So its really the 7&4 year old that are at his mercy? I know in my state. - when I saw a lawyer they said he couldn't force my 15 year old to him because he was of an age that if my son said he didn't want to see him & he had a good reason (ex - contact with ow) they wouldn't force it.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> :iagree::iagree:Glad we're both are on the same page!


Yeah - maybe it'll make him appreciate what you've given him & not take it for granted.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> So its really the 7&4 year old that are at his mercy? I know in my state. - when I saw a lawyer they said he couldn't force my 15 year old to him because he was of an age that if my son said he didn't want to see him & he had a good reason (ex - contact with ow) they wouldn't force it.


My 15 yo had already decided that he didn't want to stay with his father. I told him that he should go if the sisters go. That way the girls don't have to be by themselves.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I can see that. They have their weekly 45 minute visit with him at a random restaurant - I like at least one of the older ones with the 15 year old & he doesn't like to go alone. He doesn't have the greatest relationship with his father.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

With all the drama that's been going on with my ex, I think he topped it this time. Last week, we actually got along (first time!) and had verbally agreed for me to move out of state, with him visiting the kids every other weekend and have over nights with the kids at a place he will rent out over there. He got mad at me 2 days later when I asked him why is it so important that he takes the 100% physical custody when I have agreed to him having overnights and lowering the child support. At the end of our conversation, I asked him to please let me do my surgery and focus on my healing before he decides to write anything up. It seemed like he understood how I didn't want to stress during my recovery.

Turns out that he didn't care. He called up that lawyer after he left that day and had him write up the papers. He served to me the day BEFORE my surgery! All I could do was just breathe and not let it bother me because I couldn't go into surgery the next day with stress and worry. 

So today is the day after the surgery and I just read the papers. I'm supposed to go to Mediation next Thursday. I just got a hysterectomy to take out my cervical cancer yesterday and I don't think there is any way I can drive next week! I just left a message with my lawyer to see if there's anything he can do to change the date or something.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Here's the thing: you continue to be a doormat for this [email protected] STOP ASKING him for anything!!!!! You don't seem to understand this! He is behaving like this because he perceives that you are in a position of weakness, and when you ask him for anything that gives him power which he's happy to use. I know your surgery is scary but you will be ok; don't speak to him unless it's kid related and even then don't ask him for anything. I can't repeat this enough. Don't agree to less child support unless there's really something in it for you and after you've told him to f#ck off and dragged him to court for everything you can get. You need to claim a position of power here, there's no reason he should have any. I repeat, don't ask him for anything that requires his understanding, he sees that as weakness he can exploit. Drag him to court for everything, make his life miserable and see how fast this resolves. Tough love sister, and please ask me how I know all of this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Hes probably pulling all this right now BECAUSE he knew you were going for surgery & wouldn't have the head to deal with this. He figured he had an advantage. Prove him WRONG - show him you are not going to take it anymore. Do not let him (I know you have eyes watching you in your house) or any of them let them think you cant handle this situation!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Here's the thing: you continue to be a doormat for this pr[email protected] STOP ASKING him for anything!!!!! You don't seem to understand this! He is behaving like this because he perceives that you are in a position of weakness, and when you ask him for anything that gives him power which he's happy to use. I know your surgery is scary but you will be ok; don't speak to him unless it's kid related and even then don't ask him for anything. I can't repeat this enough. Don't agree to less child support unless there's really something in it for you and after you've told him to f#ck off and dragged him to court for everything you can get. You need to claim a position of power here, there's no reason he should have any. I repeat, don't ask him for anything that requires his understanding, he sees that as weakness he can exploit. Drag him to court for everything, make his life miserable and see how fast this resolves. Tough love sister, and *please ask me how I know all of this*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did this happen to you too? How did it turn out?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Hes probably pulling all this right now BECAUSE he knew you were going for surgery & wouldn't have the head to deal with this. He figured he had an advantage. Prove him WRONG - show him you are not going to take it anymore. Do not let him (I know you have eyes watching you in your house) or any of them let them think you cant handle this situation!


Don't worry, I'm proving him wrong by letting them all think I can't handle it. I got it girl!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Don't worry, I'm proving him wrong by letting them all think I can't handle it. I got it girl!


Excellent!! Good for you!!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

How are things going with you? Its been a couple of weeks - how are you feeling?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> How are things going with you? Its been a couple of weeks - how are you feeling?


Healthwise, i'm doing much better. I'm healing well and taking it easy. 

He's been bullying and threatening me about accepting his offer before mediation. He wants to walk into mediation with us agreeing to what he wants, so it will only take 5 minutes. He said he didn't want to spend all day there because he has things he has to do. I haven't agreed to anything and told him that I think the mediator can help us figure what is best for our children. He doesn't care. All he wants is what he wants. Says that if i don't agree, he will make sure the judge will take all of my spousal and give him 50% custody of the kids.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Healthwise, i'm doing much better. I'm healing well and taking it easy.
> 
> He's been bullying and threatening me about accepting his offer before mediation. He wants to walk into mediation with us agreeing to what he wants, so it will only take 5 minutes. He said he didn't want to spend all day there because he has things he has to do. I haven't agreed to anything and told him that I think the mediator can help us figure what is best for our children. He doesn't care. All he wants is what he wants. Says that if i don't agree, he will make sure the judge will take all of my spousal and give him 50% custody of the kids.


Don't give in to anything - he sounds like hes just trying to rattle you. I wish I understood the custody laws in your state - maybe I'm wrong but it almost seems like the way they're set up a spouse can really play games with this kind of thing. That's b.s. ! I hope you stand your ground and win. Is it really possible he can do this? Is there a layer you can consult before mediation?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

* I meant a lawyer


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Don't give in to anything - he sounds like hes just trying to rattle you. I wish I understood the custody laws in your state - maybe I'm wrong but it almost seems like the way they're set up a spouse can really play games with this kind of thing. That's b.s. ! I hope you stand your ground and win. Is it really possible he can do this? Is there a layer you can consult before mediation?


I have a lawyer and i'm not giving in. My ex is a LE and he is doing what he does best....INTIMIDATE!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Good - I'm glad your not & you're feeling good. I mean really - you're going to a mediator to come to an agreement - not so he can get things his way - jeeze what the heck are they thinking - life doesn't always go the way they want!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Good - I'm glad your not & you're feeling good. I mean really - you're going to a mediator to come to an agreement - not so he can get things his way - jeeze what the heck are they thinking - life doesn't always go the way they want!!


:iagree::iagree:


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

When is the day you go in for mediation?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

My mediation is next Tuesday. I'm going to need prayers and positive vibes my way, please!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You've got them!! You can do this! Its all going to work out okay . Are you making plans to get out of your mil house soon?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

It all really depends on what the judge says next month when we go to court.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I hope you can get out of there as soon as possible. It would make your life so much easier!!! Oh - I didn't tell you mine has been coming back around to visit the kids & the dog (I was stupid to allow it one Saturday now its turned into every Saturday morning) 2 weeks ago he asked to see me so after not seeing him since February I ended up talking to him. He just filled me in on a couple of stupid things & told me hes having back issues? ??? Im thinking hes trying to push his "one big happy family" the kids- me - him - the girlfriend - we all get along ( no way in he** that's happening)!!! Its what he wanted from the beginning - for everyone to "get along" - yeah right!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Oh I don't let him in the house - visits are in the yard only


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> I hope you can get out of there as soon as possible. It would make your life so much easier!!! Oh - I didn't tell you mine has been coming back around to visit the kids & the dog (I was stupid to allow it one Saturday now its turned into every Saturday morning) 2 weeks ago he asked to see me so after not seeing him since February I ended up talking to him. He just filled me in on a couple of stupid things & told me hes having back issues? ??? Im thinking hes trying to push his "one big happy family" the kids- me - him - the girlfriend - we all get along ( no way in he** that's happening)!!! Its what he wanted from the beginning - for everyone to "get along" - yeah right!


Wow, really? Does he really think that you even care about anything in his life? I don't get it. They think they've done nothing wrong and that everyone should get along and be one great big happy family. Where are their heads??


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Oh I don't let him in the house - visits are in the yard only


Good, don't let him in because once you do, he will continue to go in as if he's never left.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> My mediation is next Tuesday. I'm going to need prayers and positive vibes my way, please!


Don't be too nervous. Our mediation was sort of weird.

The best advice I can give you is type up a list of ALL of your concerns and tell the mediator what you want and what you're willing to bend on.

Remember you DO NOT have to agree on a single thing at mediation. If you don't agree he/she will write up a report - a recommendation - to the judge. Then the judge will decide. If you don't agree with the judge you can start requesting psychological examinations on your ex, and child custody evaluations. Once they get a whiff of his mental state and really look into how fit a parent he is and his environment vs. yours, I don't see things going his way.

After our 2 hr mediation appointment, the only recommendation she made was "meet again in 90 days". Which I sort of thought was a bit ridiculous!

Your job at mediation is to put your best case forward and sell yourself as a mom who deserves custody (which you do .

I had my court hearing today.. went very well for me - I posted in "first hearing tomorrow".


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I thought mediation was only for us to figure out the child visitation schedule. I didn't know it was a place where I had to put my best case out there. I thought that what court was for?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Wow, really? Does he really think that you even care about anything in his life? I don't get it. They think they've done nothing wrong and that everyone should get along and be one great big happy family. Where are their heads??


I guess I'm supposed to lmao!!! I really don't care - but when he left me he left all the family he had so now hes on his own. Just him & her so who knows maybe that's where he gets this twisted idea - maybe he sees me more as a relative like a cousin or something - honestly hes such an idiot - the way hes gone about things I cant even begin to figure him out. I guess part of it is they only think about themselves & what makes THEM happy. That's how they were able to up & leave us & the kids in the first place.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> I guess I'm supposed to lmao!!! I really don't care - but when he left me he left all the family he had so now hes on his own. Just him & her so who knows maybe that's where he gets this twisted idea - maybe he sees me more as a relative like a cousin or something - honestly hes such an idiot - the way hes gone about things I cant even begin to figure him out. I guess part of it is they only think about themselves & what makes THEM happy. That's how they were able to up & leave us & the kids in the first place.


Yep. I agree. It's ALL ABOUT THEM! Forget about the spouse, kids, or anyone that known you guys as a family...it's All About Them! lol


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

The longer this goes on the more I realize that no one knows the real story. Of course I'm more than happy to fill them in lol- but I cant figure out the game hes playing so its not worth the energy


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

It doesn't really matter what the real story is. Everyone knows that he had left his wife, kids, and dog for another woman. No matter what he or she tells people, the truth is, people will know he was the one who did wrong. As for what game he's playing? I think he's still trying to cake eat.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

No that's what is the most bizzare - they know he left but not about the ow. I cant figure out why hes hiding her & how is he getting away with it. I'm sure you're right - he is trying to cake eat - well guess what - the bakery is closed on this end lmao!!!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

My ex was hiding his GF from people too. Well, at least to our close friends and family. Now that we are divorced, he's letting people know that he lives with his GF and had introduced her to one of my sons, my BIL and SIL. I think his 'story' is: He found a married girlfriend AFTER we separated....not 'We got divorced because I was cheating on my wife of 20 years with my married high school girlfriend'. 

You know what? I don't really care what HIS story is. Just ask my kids or anyone that knows 'us'. They will all tell you the same: MIDLIFE CRISIS! hahahahahaha!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

And they will have to live with the consequences long after we move on


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> And they will have to live with the consequences long after we move on


:iagree::iagree:


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> My ex was hiding his GF from people too. Well, at least to our close friends and family. Now that we are divorced, he's letting people know that he lives with his GF and had introduced her to one of my sons, my BIL and SIL. I think his 'story' is: He found a married girlfriend AFTER we separated....not 'We got divorced because I was cheating on my wife of 20 years with my married high school girlfriend'.
> 
> You know what? I don't really care what HIS story is. Just ask my kids or anyone that knows 'us'. They will all tell you the same: MIDLIFE CRISIS! hahahahahaha!


OMG lowlifes. My Ex says the same BS to everyone. This is what he says "We're both so sad about this" NOT the TRUTH which is "I lied and cheated for years, got one of my daughter's friends pregnant and my wife is now divorcing me".

Thats the truth and he won't tell anyone because it would show him for what he really is - a complete and utter lowlife loser.

I too don't care what he tells people, as of yesterday I'm no longer a part of his life!


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I thought mediation was only for us to figure out the child visitation schedule. I didn't know it was a place where I had to put my best case out there. I thought that what court was for?


Yes you are right - they will not discuss any financial issues including spousal or child support.

Mediation is purely to work out child custody and visitation issues. Prepare yourself and sell your story to the mediator best you can! Try to convince him/her you are the best parent to provide a stable home for your kids!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

brokenbythis said:


> OMG lowlifes. My Ex says the same BS to everyone. This is what he says "We're both so sad about this" NOT the TRUTH which is "I lied and cheated for years, got one of my daughter's friends pregnant and my wife is now divorcing me".
> 
> Thats the truth and he won't tell anyone because it would show him for what he really is - a complete and utter lowlife loser.t
> 
> I too don't care what he tells people, as of yesterday I'm no longer a part of his life!


That thought has crossed my mind many times. I wonder if he got ow pregnant. He left so suddenly I thought it may be a possibility. Jeeze I'm so sorry - I think there is a special place for these spouses after they pass on where karma-fate- God whatever you believe in will take care of things. Until then - let thier sorry lives play out. We're better people with them out of our lives.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> Yes you are right - they will not discuss any financial issues including spousal or child support.
> 
> Mediation is purely to work out child custody and visitation issues. Prepare yourself and sell your story to the mediator best you can! Try to convince him/her you are the best parent to provide a stable home for your kids!


OK gotcha. I already have full physical custody. My ex is fighting to get it to 50%....he will have to show some real good reasons.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> OK gotcha. I already have full physical custody. My ex is fighting to get it to 50%....he will have to show some real good reasons.


Stabilty, stability, stability.. thats going to be your best selling point. Your life is stable, you are there for them all the time. They are comfortable in the family home.

His life is so far from stable its rediculous. He works weird hours, has not shown an interest in the past. Play these factors to your best advantage.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

What a weekend - Friday he decides to pop up while I'm picking up my son from school to give me the weekly money & then gave me the whole story of his back. Then yesterday took 2 of the kids out. When they got back I catch him in the backyard getting ready to take the chairs & umbrella stand. I asked what he was doing & he then asked if he could have it & I said no I needed them. I don't get it - he had no concern with fixing the backyard or entertaining when he lived here - now he does. Then they went by my daughters new apartment & he makes the comment that no one is interested in seeing his new place & its been almost 5 months. Wtf??? Sorry about my rant its been a trying weekend.

I know you said tomorrow is your mediation. I want to wish you good thoughts & stay strong & calm. You will do fine.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> What a weekend - Friday he decides to pop up while I'm picking up my son from school to give me the weekly money & then gave me the whole story of his back. Then yesterday took 2 of the kids out. When they got back I catch him in the backyard getting ready to take the chairs & umbrella stand. I asked what he was doing & he then asked if he could have it & I said no I needed them. I don't get it - he had no concern with fixing the backyard or entertaining when he lived here - now he does. Then they went by my daughters new apartment & he makes the comment that no one is interested in seeing his new place & its been almost 5 months. Wtf??? Sorry about my rant its been a trying weekend.
> 
> *I don't get that mentality.*
> 
> I know you said tomorrow is your mediation. I want to wish you good thoughts & stay strong & calm. You will do fine.


Thank you. He was over today and told me that he had read my response. He asked if I read it before I signed it because there were lies in it. He told me that he really didn't want to go to court and do this. All he wanted was to have the kids. I said to him, 'that's what mediation is for' and reminded him that he was the one who decided to take me to court. He continued to talk more about my response. I was not comfortable having this conversation and told him that I did not want to discuss it with him and if he has concerns, he can have his lawyer call mine. He got mad and said that he will not show up to mediation tomorrow and let the case go straight to the judge.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

He didnt like it because you didn't back down. If he really just wanted more time with the kids the two of you could have sat down & figured something out. Hes playing games - big time!! You handled it really well!! So now what happens? You show up for mediation & if he doesn't how long does it take to go before the judge? I would figure it wont look good to the judge if he just doesn't show up after putting everyone through this. Keep your head up girl- it sounds like hes going to self sabotage himself!!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

How did it go today?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi Small- I'll write about it later. Not feeling too well right now.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Ok - you can pm me if you'd like


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I got to the mediation office 45 minutes early and about 5 minutes later, he showed up. We sat one seat apart and filled out our papers. He asked to see our children's birthdates because he wanted to make sure he filled them out correctly! I did not react. A couple of minutes after that, he asked if I wanted to step outside and discuss 'our' agreement. I told him no and pointed towards the office and said that we will work it out in there.

The mediation itself was okay. I felt that the mediator (female) ignored me and kept talking to my ex. He played the 'I really want my kids' card. She kept telling him that it wasn't fair, how she feels for him, blah blah blah....never hearing what I had to say. So I kept quiet. 

On paper, she was trying to work out what I proposed. A phased approach. She worked out a schedule where he would take the kids out for two days a week and told us that she trusted us to do it in 'Good Faith' until our court day comes. Her reason for not writing it down on paper was because we have 10 days to try it out and reject it if we didn't like. Because our court day is a month away, it didn't make sense to write it out. But she did make an appointment to go back to the mediation office the morning of court if we have made an agreement.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

As soon as we walked out the door, he asked me for a paper with the kid's doctor name on it. I told him he has access to their medical records and that I can have my lawyer send it to his lawyer. He told me "Don't let me catch you with another lie." I had no idea what he meant and said "Are you threatening me?" Before I know it, he was gone like the wind and disappeared. Wow.

An hour later, he came over to the house to see the kids. He told me he went and got what he wanted at the hospital. Said that he had to go there because I had changed the password. WHAT PASSWORD? I have NO IDEA what he was talking about and started to ask but thought better of it because he was already agitated. 

Before I left the room, he asked if next payday's support would automatically deduct our oldest son's support amount because he was graduating on the 1st. I told him that as far as I know, he was getting paid on the 31st and his pay period ended on the 28th...so it would be the following month. He said he will call his lawyer to find out.....go right ahead. 

I fully believe all this is financial based. I even told the mediator when she asked if it was financial based.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

As for our 'Good Faith' plan? I informed him that we would be going to court regardless (we have other issues that the needs to be solved) and asked if he wanted to give the new schedule a try or keep the old one. He decided to keep the old one.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm so sorry about everything!!! I think you are right - this is all financial based he's being that picky about when your son graduates? Really?? - he wouldn't like this state - new Jersey makes them pay support through college or until the child is gainfully employed. And the fact that he doesn't want to try out the new custody agreement - wtf?? What the heck was yesterday about? I guess he was hoping for a different outcome but he didn't get it - jeeze! And if he can get access himself to the kids medical records then let him get them himself - don't make it easy on him - hes not making things easy for you! He doesn't even seem to be making sense at this point. It really does seem to be about the money - he seems to want to see how much he can cut & how fast he can do it. They're all idiots - I swear!! Make sure you document all of this & bring it up in your next mediation/court date. I cant see how this will look good for him.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Hey its been a while - how is everything going?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Need to stay strong and breathe.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Not good huh?? I'm so sorry. Just try to not let it get to you.( I know - easier said than done) If you want to vent I listen well. Stay calm & stay strong. I'm sending positive thoughts your way!!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Update. Court is next week and last night my mother in law, who will be a witness for my Ex, told my son that she will DENY EVERYTHING I WROTE IN THE PAPERS SO HER SON CAN WIN and asked my son how he felt about it. 

Wow, what a way to put a child into the middle of it huh?


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Update. Court is next week and last night my mother in law, who will be a witness for my Ex, told my son that she will DENY EVERYTHING I WROTE IN THE PAPERS SO HER SON CAN WIN and asked my son how he felt about it.
> 
> Wow, what a way to put a child into the middle of it huh?


This is typical. Remember she raised that sick pyscho man (ex husband). He is the way he is due to his childhood and background. So no surprise there really with the MIL sticking the knife in.

Are you still living in the same house as her?

Be sure to tell the judge she has been attempting to alienate your son from you and explain what she said to your son. That won't go down well.

Stick to your guns: the main thing you need to convince the judge is you have been the primary caregiver and he is highly unstable.

I know this is tough, I'm facing the same battle with my ex, and the stress and upset is nearly unbearable. I feel for you  It's just horrible.

I wouldn't wish this mess on my worst enemy.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> This is typical. Remember she raised that sick pyscho man (ex husband). He is the way he is due to his childhood and background. So no surprise there really with the MIL sticking the knife in.
> 
> Are you still living in the same house as her?
> 
> ...


Broken- How are you doing?

I wouldn't wish this on anyone either! You're right! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it? lol I think what she did to my son is unacceptable. We lost all respect for her as of last night. This living arrangement will not last long. No matter what happens in court, I believe she will continue to take it out on me and possibly my children.

As soon as i find out what the judge decides, I will have a more definite direction. 

I pray pray pray that the case will be in favor of me and we can put all this at rest.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Wish me luck tomorrow. I go in tomorrow for court.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Good luck!! I'm sending positive thoughts your way!!'


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Oh 4.5 I'll be thinking about you. I'm with ya girl, I know you must be stressed out and feeling sick about tomorrow. All I can say is just do your best. Good luck, ok?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Thank you girls. I am so nervous, scared, and feeling sick about tomorrow. All I'm going to do is just tell the truth and trust that the judge will see through my ex's BS.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Thank you girls. I am so nervous, scared, and feeling sick about tomorrow. All I'm going to do is just tell the truth and trust that the judge will see through my ex's BS.


Just stay strong and don't let him rattle you!! You know what's best for your kids & I'm praying for you that the judge will see the same. Hang in there girl!!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

4.5, I just got caught up on your thread. Sending big hugs. I think your feeling that this is financial is spot on! If you are still living with MIL, I really hope you get out soon. Family is odd. My SIL was dumped by her H when the youngest of three was two months old. He literally walked out one day and never returned, fought child support for years, she was on food stampes. We helped her when we could and I thought we were friends. Now that my STBXH moved out after Dday, she's befriended the new GF. Blood is thicker than marriage.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

How did everything go today??


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> 4.5, I just got caught up on your thread. Sending big hugs. I think your feeling that this is financial is spot on! If you are still living with MIL, I really hope you get out soon. Family is odd. My SIL was dumped by her H when the youngest of three was two months old. He literally walked out one day and never returned, fought child support for years, she was on food stampes. We helped her when we could and I thought we were friends. Now that my STBXH moved out after Dday, she's befriended the new GF. Blood is thicker than marriage.


Ouch! That is rough! I understand that blood is thicker, but where does the friendship and loyalty stand? My SIL and I were pretty close. The day she and my BIL moved into the house, I told them that I didn't want them to be involved and haven't done or said anything to get them involved. 

My SIL made her choice and our relationship has strained. It's kinda hard living in the same roof knowing she's watching and spying on me. I have to suck it up because we all live under the same roof.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> How did everything go today??


Good morning Small,

The judge had two other cases that was going to take a long time, so he scheduled an 'evidence' hearing for the end of July. Nothing has changed, we keep everything the same until what is decided on our next court day. 

My ex's lawyer tried to change his plan and asked the judge to use the our submitted papers and use only their witness and no other. The judge shot him down by saying either one or the other, they can't have both. They decided to use their witness...my MIL.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

4.5 so sorry you don't have much progress-court is like that all too often.
So he counting on mommy to get his kids for him. Is she really willing to go into court and lie for him? Is she really willing to risk going to jail for him? Can you depose her prior to court? (Often a good way to catch a witness in a lie, but it costs money) 
FYI-my SIL lives out of state so I hardly ever see her anyway.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Ugh - I don't believe they put it off again!! I'm glad the judge saw through his bs & made him commit to one or the other. You know the whole mil thing may backfire because lets face it - his mommy is a pretty biased witness - I don't think any judge will put much weight behind what she has to say.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm just going to let it play out on it's own. I can't stress over this anymore. He's unstable and tried to start up an argument with my SIL in the kitchen. I wonder if they planned it? Like she's filming it with her phone or recording it? 

My son and daughter told me that my SIL took a picture of the girls (thinking they didn't see or notice) playing with their toys on the ground and my Ex in the background. She sent it to him afterwards. I know there's nothing wrong with doing that, it's the motive i'm questioning. Can't trust them. They're pretty chummy lately.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You cant trust anyone in that house!! Its a terrible way to live but you always have to keep your eyes open & second guess everything they're doing. I really hope you can get this resolved soon & get the hell out of there. Its really ridiculous what you have to put up with!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

You are absolutely right! I can't trust anyone in my house. My SIL really needs to mind her own business. She doesn't know anything on my side and i'm sure it's making her nuts. 

First thing my ex did when he came over to see the kids was to tell his brother and SIL everything that happened in court. I did not say a peep to ANYONE. 

Can you imagine the tension at this house right now? I feel like i'm in jail, hiding in my bedroom all the time.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Well of course he was going to do that did you expect any less of him? Heck if he did it within earshot of you he might have been trying to bait you to start arguing with him in front of all them.
I can just imagine - I don't know how you do it - I think id lose my mind. If your stuck there try to keep busy with Tv or hop in facebook or here or something. At least you're conversing with people outside that house. And I don't know how easy it is for you to get out of the house everyday but even if you just get out & go for a walk everyday & take the kids to the park & have lunch there with them - just to get out from under their prying eyes for a little bit.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh, I do! We get out of the house almost everyday. It's got to the point where my SIL (doesn't work) stays home ALL DAY to keep an eye on me. She watches when I leave and when I get back. If we're out of the house too long, I get the 'You're spending money...while the Ex is poor.' look.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Oh God are you kidding me???? That has to be soooo annoying. I know its easy for me to say but don't let it bother you - how does she know you were out spending money (& who cares if you were anyway - its none of her business) you may have just gone out with the kids. 
Honestly I don't know how you are able not to say anything. I think by now I would have lost it!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Believe me Smallsteps, I really REALLY want to say something! Like I said, i'm just going to let all this play out on its own. I haven't done anything wrong and I have faith that those who are doing what they're not supposed to, will get theirs in the end.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Well when this is all over & you can get the hell out of there you can finally tell them all what you really think about them!!! Until then I guess just be patient & it'll all work out in the end
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Its always good to take the high road, provided there's some sort of back up for you.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Soooo, how do you know if you are over it and have moved on? 

I dropped my car off at our mechanic of 10+ years this morning. The mechanic knows who I am and usually calls me by my last name, Mrs *****. This morning, the mechanic pulled up my record and with a confused look on his face said the other woman's name. I laughed and said, i'm ***** and that name is my ex's girlfriend. My mechanic said, 'Oh, I thought that wasn't your name, that's why I was confused."

I told him don't worry about it and i'm okay with it. As I left the mechanic shop, I realized that I didn't feel upset at all. Who knew a year ago today, that I would be OKAY.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Soooo, how do you know if you are over it and have moved on?
> 
> I dropped my car off at our mechanic of 10+ years this morning. The mechanic knows who I am and usually calls me by my last name, Mrs *****. This morning, the mechanic pulled up my record and with a confused look on his face said the other woman's name. I laughed and said, i'm ***** and that name is my ex's girlfriend. My mechanic said, 'Oh, I thought that wasn't your name, that's why I was confused."
> 
> I told him don't worry about it and i'm okay with it. As I left the mechanic shop, I realized that I didn't feel upset at all. Who knew a year ago today, that I would be OKAY.


Congratulations - very nice!!!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Wow, you are SO over it. I don't handle things that well.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Good for you, 4.5!! It feels good to get to this point, doesn't it? Not 'good' that they did it, but 'good' in that what they do no longer has that same effect/control over us. 

You've really come into your own in this last year -- you've been through so much, and have come out on the other side!! Sistah-fist-bump to you, lol.  ((hugs)) too.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I've been jumping through one obstacle after another for over a year now. It's a nice feeling when you realize how far you've come. I just need to continue to stay strong until our next court date.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You will & you'll do fine!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

My court date is on Monday. I'm going to spend all weekend doing positive things and stay focused so I can go in on Monday with the confidant attitude that the judge would not let my Ex take any custody of the kids and keep my supports the way it is. 

*Positive thoughts!!!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> My court date is on Monday. I'm going to spend all weekend doing positive things and stay focused so I can go in on Monday with the confidant attitude that the judge would not let my Ex take any custody of the kids and keep my supports the way it is.
> 
> *Positive thoughts!!!


Sending positive thoughts. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Me, too!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Thank you ladies!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Thank you ladies!


We're there for you - just remember that!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Good morning everybody! Here's the latest. My court was yesterday and the judge did not see a change of circumstance other than my son turning 18. Everything remained the same. I keep the 100% physical custody, the spousal support for life since I am a long term marriage (unless I get married), and a lowered child support. We fixed his visitation so he can now take the kids out of the house for visitations. The judge wrote the times he can visit and made up our holiday schedule. Since my ex will have the kids till 8pm in the summer and 6pm during the school year, the judge told my ex that he expects the children to be fed. lol Overall everything was in my favor. 

My MIL did testify against me and even though I can tell she was trying to be fair, there were a couple of things she said that were fibs. I'm glad the judge did not take her testimony fully and in fact, told my ex that he should have not subpoenaed his mother. Nothing she said was out of the ordinary. He also told me that even though my son was an adult, he should have not been in court too. (He wanted to go and support.)

The good news is that now I have a direction and can start to find a place of my own. The bad news is that I wanted to move out of state and visitation would be about 4 hours away. My ex said that he wont allow me to move and would take me to court again to keep me here...at his mother's house. I live in LA and rental in a good school district is very expensive. I can find a very affordable rental with an excellent school district Nevada. I feel like I am in a stuck place. Schools start in a couple of weeks and I wanted to get the kids settled into their new place before school starts, but now it looks like it will have to either wait until second semester or I will take them out of school once we find a place.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Glad things went well for you. I figured the judge really wasn't going to take what your MIL said seriously. Now you can finally move on with things.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

All in all, it sounds like a positive turnout for you, 4.5! That had to be weird, watching your MIL testifying about your marriage. I don't think I'd handle that very well. 

I hope things go well in finding a place that is good AND affordable. Keeping my fingers crossed! Just remember: this first place you get doesn't have to be your last. It just has to do the job til you can get what you really want.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Very glad you had a smart judge, although I can't imagine what it will be like for you in the MIL's house now. Try to remember there is an end to this, it will just take longer than you would like. And who cares about what HE says concerning your moving. It is not up to him. Do you honestly think this same judge, who listened to the MIL's testimony, would be unsympathetic to your getting out of that situation?
Are you feeling alright?


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Wow that is GREAT news! I am thrilled it went in your favor. Yes now you will have more direction in your own life.

Unfortunately, your ex is right about keeping you in LA.

You DO NOT have to stay at your MILs house. No court in CA would order that. All they expect is that where you and the kids reside is within "reasonable travelling distance". Depending on what part of LA your ex lives in, that could mean you could move to Inland Empire, Orange County (prob even more expensive than where you are now!) San Bernadino, etc. 

I am in the same boat. If my ex would let me I'd move to Arizona, where good paying jobs are plentiful and property prices and rent are next to nothing compared to CA. But he won't, no way, under any circumstances. So I have just got to make the best of it here, for another 8 yrs at least (until DS turns 18).

I bet your ex was [email protected]@ed about the custody and support ruling! Karma bus!!

Can you look for a townhouse or apartment that you can afford? Doesn't have to be forever, not by any means. When you get on your feet and maybe go back to work you could move up. Remember kids don't give a damn about what they live in, as long as their loving parent is there.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Broken- Am I misunderstanding that 100% physical custody can't move out of state?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Yes, my ex was upset with the ruling. He tried to claim that he's making less and that the state is not paying his overtime. The judge knew what he was doing and since my ex didn't bring any W2's with him, he decided that my Ex actually made MORE than what he was claiming and used the higher amount to figure out what the support would be. Good for me and bad for him because he expected a lot more back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Yes, my ex was upset with the ruling. He tried to claim that he's making less and that the state is not paying his overtime. The judge knew what he was doing and since my ex didn't bring any W2's with him, he decided that my Ex actually made MORE than what he was claiming and used the higher amount to figure out what the support would be. Good for me and bad for him because he expected a lot more back.


Yeah... Judges really don't like it when you try to pull shenanigans.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Broken- Am I misunderstanding that 100% physical custody can't move out of state?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know for sure in my case I have 100% physical custody and joint legal custody with visitation 2 days a week to my ex, I cannot move out of the COUNTY let alone the state without my ex's written permission, and signed off by the judge.

I should say I can move wherever I want, I just can't take our son.

If you have sole legal and physical custody with no visitation from him, I think you are free to do what you want. If you have sole legal and physical custody with visitation I think you can't move. CA law calls for "frequent and continued contact" with the non custodical parent.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

As for finding a place, I don't mind a smaller place as long as its in a safe neighborhood with a good school district. I lived in San Bernardino county prior to moving down here. Rental is cheap but schools are below average. 

Schools start in a couple of weeks so I'm in a bit of a time crunch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Yes, my ex was upset with the ruling. He tried to claim that he's making less and that the state is not paying his overtime. The judge knew what he was doing and since my ex didn't bring any W2's with him, he decided that my Ex actually made MORE than what he was claiming and used the higher amount to figure out what the support would be. Good for me and bad for him because he expected a lot more back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


HAHAHAHA to him. Well, Well, Well... looks like your ex's plans to weazel out of his obligations all backfired on him.

Sounds like my ex, whining non stop about how much he has to pay. Should have thought about that before he abandoned his family and stuck his [email protected] into that skank and got her pregnant.

Grass is greener????


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> I know for sure in my case I have 100% physical custody and joint legal custody with visitation 2 days a week to my ex, I cannot move out of the COUNTY let alone the state without my ex's written permission, and signed off by the judge.
> 
> I should say I can move wherever I want, I just can't take our son.
> 
> If you have sole legal and physical custody with no visitation from him, I think you are free to do what you want. If you have sole legal and physical custody with visitation I think you can't move. CA law calls for "frequent and continued contact" with the non custodical parent.


I'm calling my lawyer today to see what he says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Yes - get on the phone today and find out exactly where you stand. 

I think from hereon out any court action your idiot ex takes will be moot. So if you can and do move out of State and he petitions to change the status quo = final divorce judgement decree, and together with the fact he never took an interest in the kids until recently when he decided that would be in his best financial interests, I'd say his chance of success is extremely small.

Let us know what your attorney says.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> HAHAHAHA to him. Well, Well, Well... looks like your ex's plans to weazel out of his obligations all backfired on him.
> 
> Sounds like my ex, whining non stop about how much he has to pay. Should have thought about that before he abandoned his family and stuck his [email protected] into that skank and got her pregnant.
> 
> Grass is greener????


My Ex said in court that his Girlfriend pays the rent and ALL the expenses.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> My Ex said in court that his Girlfriend pays the rent and ALL the expenses.


:loser:


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> My Ex said in court that his Girlfriend pays the rent and ALL the expenses.


What a complete DOORMAT she is. Desperation for a man, any man, at its finest. Bet the entire courtroom thought he was a pathetic leach with that confession.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hahaha Right? lol


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

And after he said all that, he said that he needed money so he can spend time with his kids.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Oh, now you're making me laugh.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

B/c spending quality time with someone always means spending alot of money?? :scratchhead:


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

vi_bride04 said:


> B/c spending quality time with someone always means spending alot of money?? :scratchhead:


When you can't connect emotionally you can try to bribe your kids/girlfriend/boyfriend, etc.

Talking about money - my ex has been taking out new debt at an alarming rate. Debt he cannot possibly pay back. I know because his mail still comes to our PO box. 6 new credit cards. I know he bought new tires for his car - $800, bought a new laptop 'cause his old one blew up (too much chasing women on facebook made it short circuit) $600.. and he's been living the high life.

I wonder how he thinks he will deal with being in debt he can't repay? Probably the same as having unprotected sex with a desperate lonely unstable young woman - doesn't think of any consequences.

Idiot. I can't even look at him anymore without feeling complete disrespect and disgust.

He truly is a complete embarrassment to me. And I say that from my heart. I feel nothing but embarrassment and disgust towards this man-child.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Broken- Could it be possible that he is raking up credit card bills so you will have to pay half after the divorce?


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Broken- Could it be possible that he is raking up credit card bills so you will have to pay half after the divorce?


*I believe any new debts incurred after date of filing are not my responsibility.*
I know after I filed but before he was served he took out a loan on one of our retirement accounts. The judge was PISSED. While technically he was not in contempt of court since he had not been served - since he knew I had filed and borrowed against it regardless the judge said he could file something that says I'm not responsible for that loan.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I think you're right about any debt incurring after the date of filing. Let's hope your ex realizes it. I have a feeling he doesn't. lol


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

So last night, I was trying to get my older daughter to talk to her father. She's been ignoring and acting rude toward him. He said to her, "You're acting like i'm the bad guy." HELLO! REALLY??? My mouth dropped and I looked at him with a WTF look.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> So last night, I was trying to get my older daughter to talk to her father. She's been ignoring and acting rude toward him. He said to her, "You're acting like i'm the bad guy." HELLO! REALLY??? My mouth dropped and I looked at him with a WTF look.


Its his problem to smooth things over with the kids. Let him figure out how to do it since he thinks he has all the answers. 

After my stbxh's latest screw up I sent him a text to tell him how upset the kids were and then stayed out of it. He can fix his own mess with them.

So what did she say in response to that?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Its his problem to smooth things over with the kids. Let him figure out how to do it since he thinks he has all the answers.
> 
> After my stbxh's latest screw up I sent him a text to tell him how upset the kids were and then stayed out of it. He can fix his own mess with them.
> 
> So what did she say in response to that?


I totally agree with you. It is not my job to fix his relationship with his daughter/kids. BUT because I live with HIS family at HIS mother's house, I have to show that I am making an effort. I get blamed for everything here... It's my fault that daddy leaves early or don't show up. It's my fault that the kids are acting out. It's my fault that the kids are upset about the situation. It really sucks living here and I am working on getting out of here ASAP.

After my ex told her that she's making him to be like the bad guy, she told him that he left the family. He said, "That was so long ago." Another WTF moment! I told him that today (July 31st) is the one year anniversary of me filing divorce papers and our divorce was only finalized 3 months ago. It is NOT that long ago and to a child, it is still very fresh in their minds. 

What an A**!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I totally agree with you. It is not my job to fix his relationship with his daughter/kids. BUT because I live with HIS family at HIS mother's house, I have to show that I am making an effort. I get blamed for everything here... It's my fault that daddy leaves early or don't show up. It's my fault that the kids are acting out. It's my fault that the kids are upset about the situation. It really sucks living here and I am working on getting out of here ASAP.
> 
> After my ex told her that she's making him to be like the bad guy, she told him that he left the family. He said, "That was so long ago." Another WTF moment! I told him that today (July 31st) is the one year anniversary of me filing divorce papers and our divorce was only finalized 3 months ago. It is NOT that long ago and to a child, it is still very fresh in their minds.
> 
> What an A**!


I know - you're sort of stuck at this point.

God mine & your ex sound the same. They figure with time everything is forgotten about. Mine told the kids after they got angry about him introducing the ow "its been six months I thought it was ok".
Hes always been that way - let enough time pass and the problem goes away. He still has never told me why he left. I'm guessing he'll wait and if it comes up - he'll tell me "but that was so long ago - what does it matter anymore?" Such idiots - they don't have a clue!!!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> I know - you're sort of stuck at this point.
> 
> God mine & your ex sound the same. They figure with time everything is forgotten about. Mine told the kids after they got angry about him introducing the ow "its been six months I thought it was ok".
> 
> ...


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Is he kidding??? Oh wait - its a way t.o drive a wedge between you and your daughter. You were jealous - daddy left because he couldn't take mommy's jealousy toward you - see daddy isn't a bad guy after all - its mommy's fault.

Did your daughter hear him say he thought you were jealous? What a jerk - anything to take the blame off of him.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Yes, my daughter heard it. He said it right in front of her, right after he told her that they used to spend a lot of time together. Later on that night she said to me that her daddy always told her that I was jealous of her.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

How enormously insecure this jerk is. No, I take that back, he's just a jerk.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Yes, my daughter heard it. He said it right in front of her, right after he told her that they used to spend a lot of time together. Later on that night she said to me that her daddy always told her that I was jealous of her.


Then that's what he's doing. It goes to show you the level of mentality they have. The only way they can accomplish anything in life is to blameshift or put other people down. It's digustusting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> How enormously insecure this jerk is. No, I take that back, he's just a jerk.


He sure is and I am glad that he is not my spouse anymore.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Then that's what he's doing. It goes to show you the level of mentality they have. The only way they can accomplish anything in life is to blameshift or put other people down. It's digustusting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing is ever their fault. We puuushed them to it. I'm thankful that my kids are smart and are able to see through all this.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Nothing is ever their fault. We puuushed them to it. I'm thankful that my kids are smart and are able to see through all this.


Yes it is. Kids are pretty smart - I didn't realize until last night how much of a joke mine think he is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Not only are your kids smart, but you are teaching them a valuable lesson by NOT staying with him. What kind of a message does it send your kids about love? That you can let someone cheat on you, manipulate you, blame their bad behavior on others, and you just sit there and take it?

"But pastor, we promised 'Until death do us part!'"
"Yes. And how long as your marriage been dead?"


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

ebp123 said:


> "But pastor, we promised 'Until death do us part!'"
> "Yes. And how long as your marriage been dead?"



Oh, I _*love*_ this!!! :smthumbup:


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I have super great news! I got an email from my lawyer today. He forwarded the court's minutes. I don't remember hearing it but the judge ordered: 'Further requests for modification of custody are denied.' Yayy! No more threats or fear of him taking me to court again!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I have super great news! I got an email from my lawyer today. He forwarded the court's minutes. I don't remember hearing it but the judge ordered: 'Further requests for modification of custody are denied.' Yayy! No more threats or fear of him taking me to court again!


Great news!!!! Congratulations!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I have super great news! I got an email from my lawyer today. He forwarded the court's minutes. I don't remember hearing it but the judge ordered: 'Further requests for modification of custody are denied.' Yayy! No more threats or fear of him taking me to court again!


This is wonderful. Finally, you can start creating your own peace.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

You have no idea how much weight it lifted off my shoulders! Now I can get out of here and not live in fear.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

A little update. I'm packing and getting ready to move! I'm picking up the U-Haul on Sunday and driving out to the Vegas area early Monday morning. So happy to finally get out of here and start a new life.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Yay!! Congratulations!! So what happened, I thought he was fighting you on moving out of state?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Congrats, 4.5!! Do you have a place yet? It's going to be hot as blazes moving out there this time of year, so be careful!!


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> Yay!! Congratulations!! So what happened, I thought he was fighting you on moving out of state?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, he was until he read what the judge ordered about no more requests to make changes in custody. I suppose he figured that since he can't try to take me to court anymore, he gave up and wished me well.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> Congrats, 4.5!! Do you have a place yet? It's going to be hot as blazes moving out there this time of year, so be careful!!


Yes, I got approved for a place earlier this week while I was sending my oldest off to college. I got back Wednesday night, so It's been nonstop packing these two days.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Yes, he was until he read what the judge ordered about no more requests to make changes in custody. I suppose he figured that since he can't try to take me to court anymore, he gave up and wished me well.


Lol that is so great, I am so happy for you!! You finally get to start your new life where you wanted to and get far away from the craziness you've had to deal with all this time. That is so fantastic, you deserve the best!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

We've been here for two weeks and the kids had adjusted well to their new home and school. 

Their father is here visiting this week (Mon-Wed) and is staying at a local hotel. He had called me a week prior to ask if he can have the spare bedroom for when he comes and visits. I initially said it was okay, primarily for the children's sake, but thought about it and for the children's sake, it was better Not to have him stay at our house. So he hangs out here during the day and leaves at night time to go sleep at his hotel. This is his first visit since we moved.

If you remember, when I wanted to move, he threatened to take me to court to keep me in LA unless I agree to give him 30% of the money. As much as I didn't want to do that because it is the children's support that it is coming out of, I agreed to give him a certain amount as gas and lodging money only. Yes, i was being generous. My gut feeling was that he would take me to court again....and i really can't afford it financially and emotionally. 

I realized today that I had screwed myself with that deal. He was over here, expecting ME to make the breakfast and lunch for the kids on HIS days. I explained to him that on his days, even though it is my house he is at, he should be prepared to do what a father does. Words were exchanged and at the end of it, I told him that this is for the kids and the kids only. If it's the cash he wants, he can take it and not come. I rather have the kids in a stable environment than having him come every couple of weeks and create a roller coaster of emotions. It's not fair for the kids. I explained that the kids had not completely healed and it would take time. All that was turned onto me, as usual. He said that I was the one who destroyed him, so he had no choice but to leave and now he has to fix it with the kids. Really? SMH


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I forgot to mention that he tried to bully me at my house. He told me that on his days visiting the kids, I should be out of the house and not be around. I reminded him that he has a hotel room he can hang out in, and not at my place.


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## NWCooper (Feb 19, 2013)

I wouldn't welcome him at your house at all. He can come pick them up, they should be ready and meet him at the car. This is your house, you are divorced, why should he be there except to pick up the kids? It his time with the kids, all his responsibility. This is how most divorced families work, don't let him walk all,over you anymore. What a piece of work he is!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I forgot to mention that he tried to bully me at my house. He told me that on his days visiting the kids, I should be out of the house and not be around. I reminded him that he has a hotel room he can hang out in, and not at my place.


It's your house, tell him to shove it. It's amazing, you get away from him, you finally find some peace and he had to come like a spoiled child and try to wreck it on you. What a jerk!!

Don't let him do that. Stand your ground. Oh and dont let him drag you into conversations about what went wrong in your marriage. Next time just tell him it's ancient history. It's over and done and not worth rehashing. He's just trying to maintain some control over you. It drives them crazy to lose that.

Glad to hear that other than his toxic visits you guys are doing well and settling in!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

He just lost house privileges, 4.5, imo. If he's going to be bullying you, using your food (and utilities), and being in your space, then he should get no money for it. Yes he has to pay gas and hotel. These are his kids. I'm sure he has other disposable income he saves to use on himself, yes? Let him dip into that for his kids instead of asking you to subsidize it.

He has a history of abuse, and you are not married anymore. Even though he is the kids' father, YOU are the head of YOUR household, and your physical boundary is the property line (or thereabouts, lol) and your personal boundary is whatever disrupts the peace in your household. 

You have every right to deny him staying there. I know it's hard when you want to make things as good for your kids as possible, but yes, he and the kids can hang out at the hotel or do things together around town. You're not keeping him from his kids, no matter what. That's the only thing you owe him.

Stay strong!! I'm glad to hear the new place and school are working out. :smthumbup:


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> I forgot to mention that he tried to bully me at my house. He told me that on his days visiting the kids, I should be out of the house and not be around. I reminded him that he has a hotel room he can hang out in, and not at my place.


Boundaries!
So glad you are back and that the kids have settled in, but your X is a major control freak and jerk (IMO). I had a similar problem when my STBX left to move out-of-state. Our initial agreement was that his visitation would take place at my house to make it easier on the kids. Like yours, he ate my food, used by internet and watched my cable. He even asked me what's for dinner. It was clearly hard on the kids for lots of reasons, not the least of which was that they knew why he left and continue to hold him accountable. I finally said it was too hard on the kids and that he needed to get a hotel. His reaction was to say the kids were fine and it was all me. Then my oldest piped up that he was full of it and should get out! (She's a very direct kind of person). I will say that once my hospitality was removed, his visitation dwindled. Now he hasn't seen the kids in four months, and blames me for making it so hard. Of course he's wrong since not once has he invited his kids to his state, nor have I denied him any time. He just isn't willing to make an effort.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I had a long talk with my daughter last night. She was upset and told me she overheard my conversation with my ex. She heard him tell me that his goal is to have her moved in with him full time in three years. She remembers him saying, "You will have to take me to court to fight it." She also heard him blame ME for him destroying the family. It really upset her and she wanted to come downstairs to tell him the truth but was afraid that she would get into trouble.

She was crying, saying that she's confused because she heard what her dad told me and when he's alone with her, he tells her different. She feels like she's being pressured and targeted. He only asks (pressures) her for overnights, not her brothers or sister. IMO, he is obsessed with my daughter and I don't like the gut instinct i'm feeling.

He called while driving home to tell my daughter that he was crying because he missed her and that he will FaceTime her when he got home. She waited until 10pm....no FaceTime. Wow, another disappointment. It's only a 4 hour drive, so we know for a fact he got home way before 10pm.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Boundaries!
> So glad you are back and that the kids have settled in, but your X is a major control freak and jerk (IMO). I had a similar problem when my STBX left to move out-of-state. Our initial agreement was that his visitation would take place at my house to make it easier on the kids. Like yours, he ate my food, used by internet and watched my cable. He even asked me what's for dinner. It was clearly hard on the kids for lots of reasons, not the least of which was that they knew why he left and continue to hold him accountable. I finally said it was too hard on the kids and that he needed to get a hotel. His reaction was to say the kids were fine and it was all me. Then my oldest piped up that he was full of it and should get out! (She's a very direct kind of person). I will say that once my hospitality was removed, his visitation dwindled. Now he hasn't seen the kids in four months, and blames me for making it so hard. Of course he's wrong since not once has he invited his kids to his state, nor have I denied him any time. He just isn't willing to make an effort.


Yes, Boundaries. I need to make those and stand up for myself here. Seems like every time I put my foot down on something, he gets angry and threatens me. You're right, he's very controlling and in some ways mentally abusive. Why did that side of him not show when we were married? Or was I that blind?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Put your foot down. Let him get angry and record his threats. Or, have a trusted friend help you practice keeping your cool when he loses it. Try some role-playing. That way when he tries to intimidate you again, you will have a script.
I think that when we were married, we were willing to put up with a lot, and put our "everything will work out if we don't get him angry" glasses on. Co-dependents unite!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

It's amazing how much clearer we see things with a little distance, isn't it?


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> It's amazing how much clearer we see things with a little distance, isn't it?


:iagree:


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I woke up this morning feeling really sad and depressed. I feel like every time the kids and I make progress, he comes and pulls us back. After every visitation, i'm left fixing my children's emotions. It's a never ending battle and it's really taking a toll on me. I'm trying my best, but in all honesty, it's really hard to suck it up and try and make it work for the kids. I find myself hiding in my restroom, shedding a tear now and then. 

Maybe all this is normal, part of the process. I don't know. I'm trying to find books or websites to help me and the kids through this. Anyone have suggestions?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I recommend Patricia Evans' books on verbal abuse, and Beverly Engels' books on emotional abuse. 

The Emotionally Abused Woman: Overcoming Destructive Patterns and Reclaiming Yourself: Beverly Engel: 9780449906446: Amazon.com: Books

Healing Your Emotional Self: A Powerful Program to Help You Raise Your Self-Esteem, Quiet Your Inner Critic, and Overcome Your Shame: Beverly Engel: 9780470127780: Amazon.com: Books

The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to recognize it and how to respond: Patricia Evans: 9781440504631: Amazon.com: Books

Amazon.com: Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal with People Who Try to Control You (9781580625692): Patricia Evans: Books

Victory Over Verbal Abuse: A Healing Guide to Renewing Your Spirit and Reclaiming Your Life: Patricia Evans: Amazon.com: Books

Most, if not all, have free previews on Amazon, and I was able to get most of them from the library. Sorry you're having such a tough day, sweetie. ((hugs))


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

I have 2 divorced friends who told me their children goes through the same thing. Their kids goes through an emotional roller coaster after seeing the other parent....and my friends, like me, are left to fix it. 

They don't know if there's any way we can make it better, so any suggestions here would help them too! Thanks.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> I recommend Patricia Evans' books on verbal abuse, and Beverly Engels' books on emotional abuse.
> 
> The Emotionally Abused Woman: Overcoming Destructive Patterns and Reclaiming Yourself: Beverly Engel: 9780449906446: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> ...


Wow Angel! You're quick! You posted all this before I wrote another one! lol I'm going to check it out right now.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh my, it was hard looking through those books. I did find a couple that I wrote down. I hope my local library has it. Thank you Angel.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

They helped me a lot, 4.5...I hope you find them helpful, too.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

This emotional roller coaster has to stop. My D(9) just got her progress report with a couple of very low marks on it. She's an exceptional student, so I was surprised with her grades. When I asked her what happened, she started to sob and told me that she couldn't think straight. All she kept thinking about at school and home was her dad taking her out and never bringing her back to me. Her fears are real and it is affecting her. I feel so terrible that she has to go through this. I have taught her to memorize our new address and a couple of phone numbers for emergency. I told her that if she ever feels unsafe, or feels that something is not right, she can go to someone and tell them her name and give them the info. What else can I do to make her feel safer?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh wow, 4.5, this just really made me tear up. She shouldn't have to go through this, especially at her age. Is this same child he's asking to have on overnights? If so, I'd see if I could talk to a child psychologist and ask for advice. There may be someone in the court system that can help you, and at least your misgivings and her reactions are on record somewhere. You don't have anything solid, but it's not right that the two of you are just in this awful mode of waiting to see whether or not something happens, then reacting to it. I don't know what it would take to get supervised visits where you live, too. ((hugs)) to you and your D, 4.5


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> This emotional roller coaster has to stop. My D(9) just got her progress report with a couple of very low marks on it. She's an exceptional student, so I was surprised with her grades. When I asked her what happened, she started to sob and told me that she couldn't think straight. All she kept thinking about at school and home was her dad taking her out and never bringing her back to me. Her fears are real and it is affecting her. I feel so terrible that she has to go through this. I have taught her to memorize our new address and a couple of phone numbers for emergency. I told her that if she ever feels unsafe, or feels that something is not right, she can go to someone and tell them her name and give them the info. What else can I do to make her feel safer?


My god 4.5 I get it. It happened to me as a child. My father refused to let me go home to my mother (he was in Florida she in new York) until she agreed to let my brother and sister stay with him. It's a terrible feeling. All you can do is make her feel safe and secure. At least in this day and age the kids have their own cell phones and multiple ways to communicate.

Another thing you may want to do is make sure she never visits alone. Make sure a sibling is always with her. I always had a friend with me after that when I visited him.

If she's that worried then it may mean you need to go back to court and revisit the custody issue. Document everything that is going on right now in case you need to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> Oh wow, 4.5, this just really made me tear up. She shouldn't have to go through this, especially at her age. Is this same child he's asking to have on overnights? If so, I'd see if I could talk to a child psychologist and ask for advice. There may be someone in the court system that can help you, and at least your misgivings and her reactions are on record somewhere. You don't have anything solid, but it's not right that the two of you are just in this awful mode of waiting to see whether or not something happens, then reacting to it. I don't know what it would take to get supervised visits where you live, too. ((hugs)) to you and your D, 4.5


Thank you Angel. Yes, she is the ONLY one he's asking/wanting overnights with. 

I called her school counselor to see if he can talk to her as I can only give her limited advice. The kid's health insurance isn't accepted in this state so I have to wait (IF) for my Ex to switch over before we can get a therapist for her. 

You're right, I need to get a third party documentation. I really worry about her.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

smallsteps said:


> My god 4.5 I get it. It happened to me as a child. My father refused to let me go home to my mother (he was in Florida she in new York) until she agreed to let my brother and sister stay with him. It's a terrible feeling. All you can do is make her feel safe and secure. At least in this day and age the kids have their own cell phones and multiple ways to communicate.
> 
> Another thing you may want to do is make sure she never visits alone. Make sure a sibling is always with her. I always had a friend with me after that when I visited him.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice. I'm doing the best I can to make her feel safe.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Thank you Angel. Yes, she is the ONLY one he's asking/wanting overnights with.
> 
> I called her school counselor to see if he can talk to her as I can only give her limited advice. The kid's health insurance isn't accepted in this state so I have to wait (IF) for my Ex to switch over before we can get a therapist for her.
> 
> You're right, I need to get a third party documentation. I really worry about her.


Check with your state to see if she will qualify for sChip (medicaid). I was able to get it for my DS even while we were separated. Now that you're divorced, you might be able to qualify where you live. This might be an option, especially if you explain why you want it (her father not switching over and your immediate need).


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

4.5 this is just horrible. It might be something to raise with the courts is a custody modification, even if they can't/won't do something now its a good idea to document the extent of her fears. If nothing else it might require H to respond. Go to the school counselor, lots of schools have a family counselor for these types of issues. 
It is also creepy IMO that she is the only one he wants overnights with. What is up with that?
I know you will do everything you can to reassure her.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

YES, it IS creepy! I'm trying to figure out why her not not the rest of the kids. 

Weird thing also, he keeps telling her he loves her because she looks like me.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Takes him back to a younger you, before things went 'bad' (in his warped mind), perhaps? The more I read, the worse this sounds, 4.5.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> YES, it IS creepy! I'm trying to figure out why her not not the rest of the kids.
> 
> Weird thing also, he keeps telling her he loves her because she looks like me.


4.5 this isn't right. I reread this and it just doesnt sit right with me. Is there a court order saying she has to go with him for a certain amount of time or can all visits be at your house or in your state?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

The judge did not give him over nights. The court order says he can take them out after school till 6pm on school nights and on Sundays until 4pm-ish. The moving thing didn't come up in court. It is an agreement between me and him. When he comes and visits, he doesn't really take her out, unless her sister goes too. (She will not go with him alone.) 

He used to always say how she's my mini-me when we were married and gave her all the attention. Not much to the others. I'm surprised that he's been bringing this up lately. One would think that it's the last thing he would be thinking or saying, i mean, when my son walks like his father, i smack his arm! lol


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I forget, does you daughter have her own cellphone? I know she's young (at least in my house she would be-ha!) but you can get limited use phones just for emergencies. They have GPS. Having one with her may help her feel more confident during visitations. 
Follow the agreement, if it was entered into the decree, and good grief make him, too!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> The judge did not give him over nights. The court order says he can take them out after school till 6pm on school nights and on Sundays until 4pm-ish. The moving thing didn't come up in court. It is an agreement between me and him. When he comes and visits, he doesn't really take her out, unless her sister goes too. (She will not go with him alone.)
> 
> He used to always say how she's my mini-me when we were married and gave her all the attention. Not much to the others. I'm surprised that he's been bringing this up lately. One would think that it's the last thing he would be thinking or saying, i mean, when my son walks like his father, i smack his arm! lol


That's what makes it unsettling. You know what, if there are no court ordered overnight visits then don't make her go. Make him stay with what the court has said and never let her go alone. 

I need to tell you that my father and stepmother' s way of doing things was divide and conquer.

First it was my sister that wanted to stay. Then they convinced my brother. Promises of Disney world and an adopting a baby brother (that never happened) was how they did it. Once their decision was made I was no longer allowed to be alone with them. They were afraid I would talk them into coming back home.

Keep the lines of communication open with her and be very honest about things. You need to stay one step ahead of him.

My middle son is very similar to his father. Drives me crazy!!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Well, thank goodness the court order gives you something to fall back on. If he gives you crap, all you have to do is wave the papers at him. If she doesn't want to go, and the court isn't making her, and you have uneasy feelings (which I think it's unanimous all of us here have, too), then don't give in. There's nothing he can do to force you, and it would sure seem to be in the best interests of your daughter. 

I would also agree to not make her be alone with him.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> I forget, does you daughter have her own cellphone? I know she's young (at least in my house she would be-ha!) but you can get limited use phones just for emergencies. They have GPS. Having one with her may help her feel more confident during visitations.
> Follow the agreement, if it was entered into the decree, and good grief make him, too!


No, she's too young for a cell phone. Funny you should mention GPS tracking. About a week ago, he called to ask if he can get her a cellphone. I told him that she's too young. In my heart, I thought he wanted to get her one to track ME. I didn't think of tracking her until you mentioned it on your post.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Left With 4.5 said:


> No, she's too young for a cell phone. Funny you should mention GPS tracking. About a week ago, he called to ask if he can get her a cellphone. I told him that she's too young. In my heart, I thought he wanted to get her one to track ME. I didn't think of tracking her until you mentioned it on your post.


I know she's young but maybe a cellphone isn't a bad idea under the circumstances. Even if you get her one of those pre paid one's to keep with her when she's with him?


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