# Do spouses always deserve a second chance?



## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

I don't know why am starting a thread about this, since it's all in the past. When I was dating my ex, in the beginning everything was nice except I did notice he had an immature side to him. When we moved in together, this mean streak of his reared its ugly head. He would say some of the meanest, cruelest things to me when he was frustrated with me. We were in our 20s, neither of us understood proper communication. When he'd say these things, I would cry and scream back at him and tell him what a jerk he was being comped. We would exchange profanities. Over many years, his cruel words took their toll on my feelings for him. As soon as he realized he was about to lose me, he really wanted to work on things. He never really admitted that what he said was wrong, however he was willing to change it to keep me. However, I never really gave him the chance. I left. I decided I wanted a guy that instinctively knew how to treat a woman. 

Now I wonder if I am asking too much. As I date other men, I realize everyone has their faults. I wonder if I should have gone to counseling with my husband and worked it out. I did not adhere to my promise of for better or for worse and I am feeling guilty because of it. 

He was not a bad guy, he had honesty and integrity, and was responsible. He loved putting lots of effort into buying me gifts for my birthday and Christmas. We enjoyed taking vacations together. He had a conscience. Did I really make a big mistake?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

It sounds like you have regrets now? If there something going on in your life currently that is making you re evaluate this? 

My personal take, I know sometimes it is easy for the wrong words to come out in the heat of the moment. However, this should only be the exception and not the norm. I don't talk that way to my W and I would never tolerate being spoken to that way.


----------



## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> It sounds like you have regrets now? If there something going on in your life currently that is making you re evaluate this?
> 
> My personal take, I know sometimes it is easy for the wrong words to come out in the heat of the moment. However, this should only be the exception and not the norm. I don't talk that way to my W and I would never tolerate being spoken to that way.


My experience so far in the dating world is what's making me second guess, and also when we divorced I was never 100% sure of the decision but I felt I was getting older and didn't want to waste valuable time. Towards the end I was repulsed at the thought of having sex with him but did not feel that way for the first 14 years of marriage. As I gained life experience I learned I didn't deserve to be treated that way, but I didn't know anything about setting boundaries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Sometimes things just take a turn for the worse and individuals allow their habits to run the relationship. We never went to "Relationship School". Even individuals that had pre-marital counseling are ill-prepared. Dr. Baucom indicates that marriage counseling fails 85% of the time. Why? The underlying issues are never addressed. We can be told what to do, but that doesn't change how we feel. The action-reaction mechanism determines relational success or failure. Not responding to negativity with negativity won't work, as you will just bottle up your frustrations and feelings of victimization. 

For better or for worse does not mean to stay miserable in a relationship. I feel it means that there may be difficult times, but you have to overcome them. If you are not giving love, then you are not in love. A relationship dominated by fighting is not romance. Relationships that are at this point are not past a point of no return. Many failed relationships just don't have the will and the guidance to make meaningful change.

Don't ruminate over the past; Learn from it. Then be grateful for the lessons you learned. You will be a better person in future relationships as a result of your efforts.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lynn508 said:


> My experience so far in the dating world is what's making me second guess, and also when we divorced I was never 100% sure of the decision but I felt I was getting older and didn't want to waste valuable time.* Towards the end I was repulsed at the thought of having sex with him but did not feel that way for the first 14 years of marriage. As I gained life experience I learned I didn't deserve to be treated that way,* but I didn't know anything about setting boundaries.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To me the bolded speaks volumes and sounds like you made the right decision (it doesn't sound like you felt he could change, or the damage he had done was already too extensive). 

I know easier said then done. but instead of looking back I would just focus on the now and future. You probably have a much clearer picture of what you expect in a relationship, so don't settle for anything less.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lynn508 said:


> I don't know why am starting a thread about this, since it's all in the past. When I was dating my ex, in the beginning everything was nice except I did notice he had an immature side to him. When we moved in together, this mean streak of his reared its ugly head. He would say some of the meanest, cruelest things to me when he was frustrated with me. We were in our 20s, neither of us understood proper communication. When he'd say these things, I would cry and scream back at him and tell him what a jerk he was being comped. We would exchange profanities. Over many years, his cruel words took their toll on my feelings for him. As soon as he realized he was about to lose me, he really wanted to work on things. He never really admitted that what he said was wrong, however he was willing to change it to keep me. However, I never really gave him the chance. I left. I decided I wanted a guy that instinctively knew how to treat a woman.
> 
> Now I wonder if I am asking too much. As I date other men, I realize everyone has their faults. I wonder if I should have gone to counseling with my husband and worked it out. I did not adhere to my promise of for better or for worse and I am feeling guilty because of it.
> 
> ...


As a man that did what your ex did, I would say you may have made a mistake. I corrected most of my problems myself, in spite of the way she responded to my problems with her (my ex).
If the man was a good guy, and loved you dearly, and had honesty and integrity, you had a rare find. You possibly could have had a great marriage if you'd have just been able to separate and let the shock of separation work some changes in his mind on the seriousness of the things he was doing. ALso, age will cause a man to change quite a bit-- they grow up sometimes.
The question is: are you happy?
If not, then it's likely it was a mistake.
JMO


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> To me the bolded speaks volumes and sounds like you made the right decision (it doesn't sound like you felt he could change, or the damage he had done was already too extensive).
> 
> I know easier said then done. but instead of looking back I would just focus on the now and future. You probably have a much clearer picture of what you expect in a relationship, so don't settle for anything less.


This was the same sentence that I honed in on. It says everything.

OP, if you were repulsed to have sex with him, it may not have mattered even if he was willing and able to change. 

Do you think you could have changed that revulsion?


----------



## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> This was the same sentence that I honed in on. It says everything.
> 
> OP, if you were repulsed to have sex with him, it may not have mattered even if he was willing and able to change.
> 
> Do you think you could have changed that revulsion?


Wgen I made the decision to leave it felt like getting the attraction back would have been an impossible task. In fact it probably was. If it was simply that the passion dulled than maybe I could have gotten that back. The verbal outbursts made me start to his his other childlike qualities. being in physical contact with him became like nails on a chalkboard. He would have these habits that reminded me of a child. Like certain facial expressions or tones of voice. Or going to the grocery store and coming home with nothing but ice cream, potato chips, chocolate chip cookies and soda. No dinner, no toilet paper, only I would think to buy the grown up items.Or watching tv while lying face down on the couch, fidgeting with his arms and legs the whole time, like a preteen boy. It started to gross me out. And I feel so terrible thinking this let alone saying it. 

But this man held down a job making almost 150k a year. Not childlike! I make almost that myself do he was not supporting me financially. 

I started to think - what did I ever see in him? But I would read Valentine's Day cards I wrote to him professing my love and admiration. There was a time where I actually felt this way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Nope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I don't think you made a mistake. It's my view that people show you who they are and what they think of you when they think you're not going anywhere. 

It says volumes that when you got ready to leave he was all of a sudden willing to change..... it would likely have been temporary until he was comfortable you were settled back in. 

It was all about him. 

Would he have spoken to his boss like that? If not he knew it was crappy but how it affected you wasn't a concern of his. Only when it affected him did he consider it.

He showed your who he was. 

When I demanded a divorce all of a sudden my ex wanted counseling and tried to do things for me. But when he thought i wasn't going anywhere he didn't give a sh!t about me. .... he told he he didn't think I'd go anywhere. 

Now that years have gone by i can tell you that he's still the same guy and can't keep a woman. 

What about your ex? Has he successfully moved on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

@lifeistooshort your situation sounds really similar to mine. He claims he didn't know his words were hurtful to me. How could he not know, when I was crying? If I was such a 'loser', why did he want to be married to me? When I said I wanted a divorce, why was he desperate to stay married to an idiot and a loser? He said he thought he was helping me improve myself. And only believed so things when he was so angry he couldn't think straight. And no he didn't speak to anyone else like that. Only me. Because I took it due to lack of confidence and low self esteem.

I don't think he is seeing anyone now. He said he has met a lot of nice girls but they are not as attractive physically as me. Yes he's a bit shallow too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Lynn508 said:


> Wgen I made the decision to leave it felt like getting the attraction back would have been an impossible task. In fact it probably was. If it was simply that the passion dulled than maybe I could have gotten that back. The verbal outbursts made me start to his his other childlike qualities. being in physical contact with him became like nails on a chalkboard. He would have these habits that reminded me of a child. Like certain facial expressions or tones of voice. Or going to the grocery store and coming home with nothing but ice cream, potato chips, chocolate chip cookies and soda. No dinner, no toilet paper, only I would think to buy the grown up items.Or watching tv while lying face down on the couch, fidgeting with his arms and legs the whole time, like a preteen boy. It started to gross me out. And I feel so terrible thinking this let alone saying it.
> 
> But this man held down a job making almost 150k a year. Not childlike! I make almost that myself do he was not supporting me financially.
> 
> ...


Definitely no for this scenario. You aren't attracted. You view him with revulsion. And there's nothing he could do to change it.

He's better off looking for someone else as are you.

FWIW, plenty of women can find _some_ childlike qualities attractive. Just not the ones you're describing. Can't blame ya for moving on.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lynn508 said:


> @lifeistooshort your situation sounds really similar to mine. He claims he didn't know his words were hurtful to me. How could he not know, when I was crying? If I was such a 'loser', why did he want to be married to me? When I said I wanted a divorce, why was he desperate to stay married to an idiot and a loser? He said he thought he was helping me improve myself. And only believed so things when he was so angry he couldn't think straight. And no he didn't speak to anyone else like that. Only me. Because I took it due to lack of confidence and low self esteem.
> 
> I don't think he is seeing anyone now. He said he has met a lot of nice girls but they are not as attractive physically as me. Yes he's a bit shallow too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha ha ha, I would ask if we were married to the same man but my ex doesn't make that kind of money. He told me the same thing, that he was trying to improve me. 

Your ex is full of sh!t. He knew what he was doing was nasty, he just didn't figure that you'd dump him. He figured if he bullied you enough you'd kiss his arse. 


He rolled the dice and it blew up in his face. And he has a huge sense of entitlement. .... so did my ex. Hell, at least yours makes money. Mine is broke and still has high opinions of what he's entitled to.

You can tell him you'll be looking for a guy who's happy with who you are. 

You're a great catch and are much better off, just be patient. 

And be flexible with your income requirements. Not saying you're not, just that a lot of high earning women insist on a high earning guy. You'll pass up great men that way. 

Fine to want him gainfully employed, but most will make less than you because of your level.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strow (Feb 22, 2016)

Depends on the situation everyone is different.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I really don't know, but I would guess know what the boundaries are, and then before getting serious with someone let them know what they are. I'm not talking about 2nd or 3rd date.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
everyone has faults, but different faults bother different people to different extents. I'd say never "settle", wait until you find someone whose faults don't bother you and who makes you happy. You will find them.




Lynn508 said:


> snip
> 
> Now I wonder if I am asking too much. As I date other men, I realize everyone has their faults. I wonder if I should have gone to counseling with my husband and worked it out. I did not adhere to my promise of for better or for worse and I am feeling guilty because of it.
> snip


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lynn508 said:


> My experience so far in the dating world is what's making me second guess, and also when we divorced I was never 100% sure of the decision but I felt I was getting older and didn't want to waste valuable time. Towards the end I was repulsed at the thought of having sex with him but did not feel that way for the first 14 years of marriage. As I gained life experience I learned I didn't deserve to be treated that way, but I didn't know anything about setting boundaries.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Part of moving on is being able to realize that there was good with the bad. 

It doesn't matter if you made the right choice, the choice is made and he's moved on. 

You move on, too. Sounds like you need to give dating a rest and spend some introspective time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*IMHO, I think that your H has some internalized issues that is predicating all of this negative behavior of his toward you!

That being said, I would whole-heartedly suggest MC as a starter at getting at the real crux of his issues! 

And if for some reason that it fails, then we can just move on to next appropriate phase! A good husband does not treat his wife that way ... Or vice-versa!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I would have a hard time giving someone a 2nd chance, life is to short for misery. Sure they promise not to do it again but alas 2 weeks later or less they are right back to themselves.


----------



## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

The following quotes from your posts are *giant *red flags.

*“He said he thought he was helping me improve myself.”
*
Think about the arrogance of that statement. He thinks he is “better” than you. What, did he marry you because you were in his range of required “hotness”, had good earning potential and thought he could “work on” the rest? Always beware of people who are critical of who you are as a person and then dismiss their actions as “helping”.

*“He claims he didn't know his words were hurtful to me.”*

This statement is either outright bvllsh!t or he is appalling lacking in empathy. The capacity for empathy is a critical component of decent human-beings.

*“He never really admitted that what he said was wrong.”
*
Always beware of people who are never “wrong” and never sincerely apologize. 

*Don’t go back to this narcissistic asshat.*


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't think you made a mistake. It's my view that people show you who they are and what they think of you when they think you're not going anywhere.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 @lifeistooshort - I know we've butted heads on occasion, but I couldn't agree more! :smile2:


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

The title of the post is so open to interpretation...I know a few people who thought their marriage was so awful, terrible and they could do better, so they divorced, got out on their own in the real world and realised they couldn't. They have big regrets - one of them, a man, even admitted that he made a clanger of a mistake divorcing his wife, and he tried to get her back but she won't have a bar of him.

However, OP in your case, I don't think he deserves a second chance, no. What he did to you is verbal abuse. He's an abuser. Did he speak to his friends like that? His colleagues? His boss? No? I bet he didn't. 

I was in an abusive relationship too so I know what you're feeling. Did you know they're often the hardest relationships to break away from? That's a fact, as crazy as it sounds...your self esteem is in the toilet after a relationship like that, and that's what you should be focussing on now. YOU. This is your time OP so grab it with both hands!!

As for your ex, I'd like to give him some "advice" on how he can improve himself. Friggin' twat that he is!


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> @lifeistooshort - I know we've butted heads on occasion, but I couldn't agree more! :smile2:


Hey, headbutting is allowed :smile2:

It gets us other viewpoints and allows us to grow.

I have strong opinions (obviously, right?) but I consider everything everyone else says. I know I don't know everything :wink2:

The whole people show you who they are thing was actually advice given to me by my dad.....he told me that people spent a lot of time dealing with others through the prism of who they wished they were instead of who they are.

It's been invaluable advice.....he gave a lot of good advice.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lynn508 said:


> I don't know why am starting a thread about this, since it's all in the past. When I was dating my ex, in the beginning everything was nice except I did notice he had an immature side to him. When we moved in together, this mean streak of his reared its ugly head. He would say some of the meanest, cruelest things to me when he was frustrated with me. We were in our 20s, neither of us understood proper communication. When he'd say these things, I would cry and scream back at him and tell him what a jerk he was being comped. We would exchange profanities. Over many years, his cruel words took their toll on my feelings for him. As soon as he realized he was about to lose me, he really wanted to work on things. He never really admitted that what he said was wrong, however he was willing to change it to keep me. However, I never really gave him the chance. I left. I decided I wanted a guy that instinctively knew how to treat a woman.


 The bolded is not acceptable.. your ex was too proud, too stubborn, whatever.. to admit his mistakes, how he treated you..... it makes all the sense in the world why, at the end, you couldn't TOUCH him - you said : "physical contact with him became like nails on a chalkboard"... this leading to the demise of your marriage...

I'd look to the future, just take heart what you learned from this marital experience... healthy self aware people recognize when their words are damaging & hurtful.. and they do all they can to make amends ...True, none of us are perfect.... it's not some occasional fighting, even mud slinging that destroys relationships.. but it IS when things are not fully resolved , with the emotional connection again flourishing.... 

If the split didn't bring this out of him, at the very least.. why would you want to go back to that ?

Move forward.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

No one knows what is right for you. We only know what we would do today, after we've been through all the "stuff" we each have; and it's different for each of us. 

You have made a decision and followed through. Your issues aren't with your decision, they are with your confidence in yourself. 

It's a little late for questioning yourself about this. Marriage is intended to be much more serious. Dating is probably the best thing for you until you can figure this all out. Get into counseling. It will help ease your mind and make you a stronger woman. 

I'm sure others will have great books for you to build up your confidence.


----------



## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

Thanks all for the replies. I wanted to make peace with my decision and learn for future relationships. As I said I have felt guilt over not trying hard enough. For not going to MC. But maybe I was doing him a favor by leaving. He wanted to stay married to me, but I gave him a chance to start fresh with someone new, someone who will feel passion for him. I know people can get feelings for their spouse back, but from a place in which you feel repulsed? I broke my vows by ending the marriage, but he broke then too by how he treated me, right?

It's crazy how you get married and never in a million years would you imagine being divorced.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Lynn, 

The only thing I don't like about your last post is that it reads like you take no responsibility for your actions. I don't see you placing blame on him for the divorce, just the opposite. It's best for him, now. 

Well, no, it was best for you. You don't know what was best for him, nor did you know what was best for you. Talk for yourself, not him.


----------



## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

And the other thing is that he never seemed to fit the profiles of typical abusers. His abuse wasn't calculated, it arose out of his immaturity in being able to deal with his anger. Verbally beating me enabled him to blow off steam, he wasn't mature enough to know another way of handling his emotions. he doesn't want to admit his wrongdoings because that would feed into his sense of shame. Putting the blame on me was his modus operandi.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Depends on what it is. Something like an affair, long term neglect, cruelty, physical abuse that repeats, dangerous or illegal activities, those are the kind that can easily be one and done.

But many other things can be fixed. Some people are slow to come around but if given them time they can.

EVERYONE has faults. If you dump your spouse over mundane things then you'll probably run into the same thing with the next partner as the grass is not always greener.


----------



## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Lynn,
> 
> The only thing I don't like about your last post is that it reads like you take no responsibility for your actions. I don't see you placing blame on him for the divorce, just the opposite. It's best for him, now.
> 
> Well, no, it was best for you. You don't know what was best for him, nor did you know what was best for you. Talk for yourself, not him.


Well, I come across a lot of advice consisting of "set him/her free". Isn't that deciding what is best for that person?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Lynn508 said:


> Well, I come across a lot of advice consisting of "set him/her free". Isn't that deciding what is best for that person?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here is an interesting blog article from Psychology Today. I don't know if it fits you or not. I just looked it up because you seem confused. I hope it helps you


----------

