# Your Opinion Please...



## Married29years (May 24, 2015)

Hello Everyone,

Ive been married to my highschool sweetheart for 29 years. Sex has always been an issue (For her not me) and if I had a dollar for ev) ery excuse I would be filthy rich.


In our youngerdays it used to be " Women get sexually active around 40" So now that were in our 40' its the same B.S.


Heres an example...


Last night I told her I would love to have sex. (Its like i have to make an appointment)


She gets off work at 5pm last night so we went out to dinner. After dinner I asked if she wanted to got o a local bar to listed to music and it was a no. She immediately gets on the computer to play games and contests from 5pm on. Around 10 pm I asked if she wanted to go upstairs and she said she still had to finish work paperwork online and watch the news. 

( The paperwork takes 15 minutes and she had all evening to do it. We have a flatscreen T.V. in the bedroom so the news culd have been watched in there)


Heres the killer part.... Ive told her many times that she should be the one to initiate the sex seeing as its rarely when I want it. She tells me over and over " I am not the initiating type person" 



This B.S. goes on and on. then this morning she knows im upset and when I ask her a question about it I get the same answer " Your just looking to argue" 


Its sad when A husband has to get the runaround and do it manually all the time because his wife would rather spend hours playing games and contests on line...


ANY COMMENTS OPINIONS?


P.S 

Ive been diagnosed with P.T.S.D. so I dont stay up real late anymore due to being tired yet I just keep getting the same old excuses...


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

My 29th anniversary is in a couple of weeks. Here's is my take on your issue - read the 5 love languages, ask your wife to read & take quiz as well.

Work hard at speaking her top 3. Then express to her that either both of you work at improving intimacy or you will be divorced by the 30th anniversary.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it was not until I laid it out to my wife in counseling that either we start having more sex & intimacy, (showers together, naked cuddling, etc) that she started to make a effort.

You can pm me if you would like, there were other books, etc that I gave her as well. Gotta go throw lunch on the grill.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You've lived with the problem for a long time. Either make a concerted effort to get her to make changes (start by changing yourself), give up and accept that this is how it is going to be, or get out. Put a deadline on it in your own mind if you are going to try for change - if it doesn't work, honor your deadline.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

your initiations sounds kinda weak. "I would love to have sex"..sounds akin to asking for a kiss.

I may get pounded...but you should look up MMSLP.

It will explain what you are up against.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

OK, done with the bbq. Here is a post from a female TAM member regarding how she felt about her husband - may apply to your wife. 
"
I keep reading through this thread, OP, and I recognize every observation you make about your wife, and I recognize your pain and confusion. You are describing me and my husband and my marriage during ten years of emotional disconnect.

Something is broken inside of her, yes, but don't get too attached to the idea that she knows what it is and how to fix it. It is a terrible feeling to lose desire and attraction for your husband, but still feel that you love him. It is confusing and isolating and no matter how much you TRY to drum up those old feelings . . . they are simply gone. They are gone because you look at your husband and you see someone who needs you, not someone who wants you. You look at your husband and you see a man who cannot be happy, and blames you for it. You look at your husband, and he is focusing his behavior around trying to fix you, when what you really want is for HIM TO FIX HIMSELF. He's not going out with his friends, he's not able to focus on work, he's grumpy with the kids, he's not finding things to do in his spare time that make him happy. You find him brooding, and always, always watching you, trying to figure you out. WHY CANT HE LET YOU ALONE AND GET HIS **** TOGETHER so you can desire him again?

Because it can't really be you? Can it? Where is the man you married? Where is the confident man who has friends and hobbies and was a leader and didn't back down the moment you got pissy with him? Where is the man who told you NO? Where is the man who let you rage and scream and let it all out . . . and then hold you while you cried? Instead you have this man who looks at you sadly, pleadingly, constantly expecting an explanation that YOU JUST DONT HAVE. 

And the thought that he could even want you sexually, when you don't want him? Incontrovertible evidence that you are meat to him. A way to get off. How can he love you in that way when you don't respect him, when you disdain his weakness, when his touch makes you shrink inside? If he can want sex with you when you so HATE what he's become, how, how can he say it's because he loves you? No, it's because he loves sex, he has an itch that he needs to scratch, that it all, and you are the convenient body. 

Oh wait . . . . but you don't say those things to him . . . because you cant. You can't because you mind will not let you form those thoughts. You cannot go there in your mind, you cannot. 

It's resentment for the changes life has wrought on both of you. It's not her fault, it's not your fault. Resentment happens. The difficulty is owning it and understanding that, although it's not your fault that you ended up full of it, ONLY YOU can do something about it. 

I think about relationship resentment as being like the baby weight after pregnancy. You both were responsible for the pregnancy, but the woman ends up with the weight to lose. You cant do it for her. She knows this, and if she wants to restore her body to the way it was before pregnancy, she will do the work. But it's harder to recognize resentment in that fashion : because it's emotional and not physical, we can shift the responsibility for "the fix" to our partner. We fight against owing the responsibility to "lose the baby weight." So we just sit in it day after day, month after month, year after year and it grows and grows and grows just as surly as extra weight will if it is not addressed. 
"
ALSO - own your own crap - do you need to lose weight, are there resentments your wife has towards you?

I had both a MC and a IC tell me to lose weight, get in the best shape of my life, get better clothes & become a better man. 

They both said "It may not change your wife's mind about sex, but you will be in a better place to start a new relationship"

Does your wife carry toxic shame over past relationships? If so, this book may help her - Official Site for Shannon Ethridge Ministries The Sexually Confident Wife - Official Site for Shannon Ethridge Ministries

Also, here is a blog written by a woman that realized that withholding sex was killing her marriage. 

New to this blog? Start here. - The Forgiven Wife

I had a huge amount of resentment for how my wife was treating me, I burned it out by joining a gym. On my way to gym, i would intentionally think about all the crap, so by the time I walked in the gym door, I was PISSED. I took it out on the weight machines. 

Become the best person you can be, make it clear to your wife that you married her because you wanted to spend the rest of your life F-----g her brains out, not being roommates.

Give it a year of hard work & then it's time to make a decision.

Don't just threaten. I told my wife that by having to make myself be ok with whether she agreed to MC or we got divorced made something in my soul die. So be forewarned.

The upside is, you either get a better marriage, or you see that it is truly hopeless & you will be better off moving on.

If you are christian, read 1 Corinthians 7: 3-5 She is not honoring your vows -

Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Finally - read No More Mr. Nice Guy. You sound like you have always put her needs before yours. Time to change that. I speak from experience.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Here's some comments and opinions - 

This sounds exactly like my wife. She makes its it abundantly clear that TV programs are more important than physical and / or emotional contact. The number of hours dedicated to TV and not even good tv - total crap reality shows - there's always one being watched and one or two on record for later. I too once expressed how I would like it if she initiated and actually got a response - this was during a time we were using condoms so here's her initiation - 

The following night she goes into the bathroom and comes out and literally tosses a condom at me. If that had been these days i would have picked it up and tossed it aside. Back then all I recall is thinking 'wow this is initiation' and of course we ended up spending the next 20 minutes getting it over with.

Here's some advice - you can get results as follows however as soon as you stop with this strategy the results stop abruptly - 

Do this - mention that you want to spend some quality romantic time with her on {insert day and time here}. Add a bit of 'we deserve it, I'm missing being with you' content. Then if she says ok then plan whatever needs to be done as part of the 'romantic' night - example baby sitter etc a the stuff that guarantees you both should be in a position to hang out together. 

What happens (at least in my case) is that she has time to mentally prepare.

I don't do it any more just because I'm tired of being the only one to put in the effort but, it works. The other reason for stopping is that the harder I think about it the more I understand what's going on in my wife's head and that is that there is some kind of aversion to physical contact with me and the more I think about it the more I feel unwanted. I know it has to do with trauma from her childhood and in some ways think it's good she can get over it but it's always a mental battle of appreciating she can get over demons but at the same time is fundamentally repelled by me :/ 

You might want to ask yourself whether you think she might be a sexual abuse victim. I think there are two possibilities - one, she just ain't into you, two, she has something in her past that makes intimacy a challenge. 
It's just a possible thing you could try. Good luck !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## len51 (May 22, 2015)

The internet is filled with men who married women who were not sexually compatible with them. Seems to happen a lot. I took a big chance by marrying a virgin. Luckily she was a sleeping tiger so it worked out well for us.

My suggestion is better communications. Find out why she does not want to have sex and tell her how much you love her and want to express that love physically. My wife and I have gone through periods where one or both of us lost interest in sex. I was always the one who took the lead, insisted on communications and even got the wife to attend two schedule date nights (sex optional) each week, regardless of how she feels, other than a real illness. We still do that because if we do not we end up having excuses for not having sex or intimate time. I also now massage my wife and have gotten very good at it. I help her more around the house and she has responded positively to my efforts.

The problem is that everyone's sex drive is different and not much you can do about it most times. For us, a non traditional marriage worked very well but both spouses have to be in favor of it. It solved the problems with sex and a few other things, that occurred once the initial excitement of marriage wore off.

I wish you luck in making your marriage work for you too.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Married29years said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Ive been married to my highschool sweetheart for 29 years. Sex has always been an issue (For her not me) and if I had a dollar for ev) ery excuse I would be filthy rich.
> 
> ...


You have gotten some great advice from others. I will add my 2 cents.

Re-read your post. You are angry at your wife over the lack of sex. 

Spouses know what their partner feels. They can understand body language, tone of voice, eye-avoidance, and a host of other signals.

Your wife KNOWS you are angry at you. She also knows that you "expect" and demand that she have sex with you. Now put down your anger for a moment. Would YOU want to give your body to someone who was angry with you, someone who felt they were entitled to you devoting yourself to pleasuring them with potentially nothing in it for YOU? Probably not. Maybe you need to do a 180 and change that dynamic.

Taking her out to dinner was nice, but just maybe she had a hard day and was brain dead from work. Going to a bar when she knew she had some work to do at home, might have seemed like a really bad idea to her, as by the time she got home she might have been too buzzed to really do the email she needed to take care of.

Also sometimes a person needs to mentally unwind. TV is famous for allowing people's brains to go into zombie mode and de-stress from a hectic day. Perhaps SHE really needed to allow her bain to unwind from the day, before she was fit company AND she needed to get something done prior to starting the work the next day.

You dismiss this as just more BS. It may be or it may not be. Only if you drop your anger, drop your demands and give love and support can you find out otherwise.

Yes you are upset, but being upset is not going to help the problem. If you love her and value your marriage, drop the anger. Figure out how to get a life and start doing things that make you feel good about yourself. You should not expect your wife to be in charge of making you happy each day of the week. You need to give her space and support when she wants to pleasure you, but don't demand or require her as part of "being your wife" to also be the women who is responsible for you carnal and physical pleasure. 

I believe it was Woody Allen said that masturbation is having sex with someone who really loves you. Now he is one screwed up guy, but his point is that you need to take more responsibility for your own happiness. If that means sublimating and doing things that make you feel good, when sex with your wife isn't possible, then go for it.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

The issues of her putting more importance into gaming/TV/paperwork aside.....

Why should she be the one to always initiate it if she knows you barely want it? To set herself up for continued rejection? 

What are you doing to romance her? Saying, "I'd like to have sex tonight" is not romance.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You already know the answer. You could read every book ever written. You can go to fifty counselors. You can work out, diet, get abs of steel and paint your buttocks fluorescent pink. Nothing is going to change. You can either accept it or not.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You come off as too passive OP. Although after years of rejections I can't say I blame you a bit. But still, the way you describe your version of initiating sure isn't going to dampen anyone's panties unless they're standing in a swimming pool.

After you really really digest this, written by my friend GettingIt, who sadly is absent from TAM for a while, think about how the points GettingIt has made apply to you and your marriage. 



GettingIt said:


> Something is broken inside of her, yes, but don't get too attached to the idea that she knows what it is and how to fix it. It is a terrible feeling to lose desire and attraction for your husband, but still feel that you love him. It is confusing and isolating and no matter how much you TRY to drum up those old feelings . . . they are simply gone. They are gone because you look at your husband and you see someone who needs you, not someone who wants you. You look at your husband and you see a man who cannot be happy, and blames you for it. You look at your husband, and he is focusing his behavior around trying to fix you, when what you really want is for HIM TO FIX HIMSELF. He's not going out with his friends, he's not able to focus on work, he's grumpy with the kids, he's not finding things to do in his spare time that make him happy. You find him brooding, and always, always watching you, trying to figure you out. WHY CANT HE LET YOU ALONE AND GET HIS **** TOGETHER so you can desire him again?
> 
> Because it can't really be you? Can it? Where is the man you married? Where is the confident man who has friends and hobbies and was a leader and didn't back down the moment you got pissy with him? Where is the man who told you NO? Where is the man who let you rage and scream and let it all out . . . and then hold you while you cried? Instead you have this man who looks at you sadly, pleadingly, constantly expecting an explanation that YOU JUST DONT HAVE.
> 
> ...


Come back and we can help you focus in on discussion points with your wife and ways to deal with her objections.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MarriedDude said:


> your initiations sounds kinda weak. "I would love to have sex"..sounds akin to asking for a kiss.
> 
> *I may get pounded...but you should look up MMSLP.*
> 
> ...


:banhim:













(that's supposed to be funny)


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## Melvynman (Mar 19, 2014)

Your wife and you never hit if off sexually is my understanding. She was taught to say no to sex, until she got married. She learned that sex is evil, dirty, and wanting it is a sin. Even the doctors told her say no to sex or you will get pregnant, get HIV or STD's. She grew up in sex negative society. She is product of her environment and doing exactly what she was taught. Good luck!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm baffled.

You want more sex but insist that she initiate.

That's like wanting big muscles by having the gym work you out.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

marduk said:


> I'm baffled.
> 
> You want more sex but insist that she initiate.
> 
> That's like wanting big muscles by having the gym work you out.


One of the most valuable things I've read here was about Responsive Desire.


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## Papillon (Jun 26, 2013)

This sort of thing just confounds me. Here is what my husband seems to want:

For me to be not only available but willing at all times, without him doing anything at all to get me in the mood. You see, he believes that if he "has to put me in the mood" that means that I do not love him or desire him as he does me. 

I cannot seem to get him to understand that by putting me in the right frame of mind in the first place, I WILL initiate sex. But he seems to expect that I should just throw myself onto him every chance I get. I'm sorry, but I'm 44 and have a lot on my plate and don't think about sex 24/7. Women have to be put in the mood.

Are you putting your wife in the mood? By this I do not mean to rub her back for 1 minute and then grab her crotch. I do not mean to tell her things like "we need to have more sex or I'm leaving you" (which is what my H said and then did for a while, even though we had sex almost every day). 

Give her a long back rub without any expectation of sex. Take her to dinner and tell her she is beautiful. Without any expectation on your part. Do this enough and she WILL initiate. Letting her know you expect sex after any kind gesture on your part will kill the mood for her every time.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

GTdad said:


> One of the most valuable things I've read here was about Responsive Desire.


Sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference between RD and LD. A high rejection rate would normally point toward LD, all things being equal.

If a spouse NEVER initiates, but also rarely turns down an initiation, that's a sure bet that Responsive Desire is in play, and you need to learn to work with it.

Now it sounds like from the OP that his wife frequently turns him down, which is why he's told her he wants her to initiate. This means she doesn't initiate, and doesn't repond to HIS initiation. This could mean either he is not initiating well, not putting enough time into setting a good mood, or she's just low drive. 

The first step in determining which is which is by curbing the anger and resentment (hard to do, but necessary) and working on the overall relationship first. Once things are about as good as they're going to get with the relationship, start initiating again. If she's still turning you down you've probably got a hard decision to make at that point.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Papillon said:


> ....Are you putting your wife in the mood? By this *I do not mean to rub her back for 1 minute and then grab her crotch.* I do not mean to tell her things like "we need to have more sex or I'm leaving you" (which is what my H said and then did for a while, even though we had sex almost every day).
> 
> *Give her a long back rub without any expectation of sex*. Take her to dinner and tell her she is beautiful. *Without any expectation on your part.* Do this enough and she WILL initiate. Letting her know you expect sex after any kind gesture on your part will kill the mood for her every time.


Very well said!

An often overlooked part of Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy book/advice is related to the "covert contract." 

Typically a Nice Guy will do something he considers "nice" for his woman and then he expects her to do something nice, usually of a sexual orientation for him. When she doesn't understand that in his mind he created this contract that she had no idea existed or if she did, she would reject the contract, it surprises her how hurt he gets.

Nice Guys really have a lot to learn about the world, personal responsibility and women.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

I suspect you telling her in advance that you would like to make love turns it into a chore for her, and possibly sets up a feeling of dread. Which explains why she would avoid you later. My H often takes that approach and honestly, it's not sexy to me at all. I don't feel like he's turned on by me, just that he thinks "it's time" we have sex and I am thinking "one more thing I need to do for him."

That person who posted about kissing on the back of the neck - that was a lot sexier. 

We women are complex creatures. It's a balance, you don't want to schedule sex with her like it's an oil change. But you also don't want to pounce on her like there is no more to her being than breasts, crotch, and ass to relieve your current sexual itch. (IOW, when you DO have sex, don't just start groping at the parts of her body that visually turn you on.) 

If you're not already frequently physically affectionate with her with it going no further than affection, don't think a little affection out of the blue will warm her up -- because the second you start with the back rub she will know "He's ONLY doing this so I'll have sex with him." (As opposed to "he genuinely cares about me" which is the real aphrodisiac for a woman. Me at least.)

My suggestion is if you aren't frequently affectionate with her just to be affectionate, do that more, on separate occasions, and for awhile, don't take it any further. Then when she starts to relax more around you, take a more assertive approach - take her out and pay attention to her. Have good conversations with her that let her know you see her as an individual and like her and think she's interesting. Whisper how hot and sexy she is when you're out in public and it can't go any further. Steal a kiss... A hot, wet, sexy, kiss. Get a drink or two down her throat if you think it will help. Make out with her in the car... Then take her home and show her that she turns you on. Take her (unless she puts the brakes on). Don't ask her to service you, show her that you're turned on by her!


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> Very well said!
> 
> An often overlooked part of Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy book/advice is related to the "covert contract."
> 
> ...


Also, the message I get from this is "You aren't fun/interesting/valuable enough that I would want to do this nice thing for you unless I'm getting sex out of it. I'll go hang out with male friends for the fun of it, but you only warrant my attention if I think I'll get sex from you."

So the guy thinks he's being "nice" but it really doesn't come across as "nice" to the woman. It's more "weasely" if that's a word. A man who knows he wants her is more attractive. His being nice in general is certainly desired. But nice *for *sex is not masculine to many.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OP. You should check up on a thread started by Marduk. Although it sounds like your wife has never been into you sexually so you might need some work on a fundamental level to become a smoldering , seductive stud muffin.

I can't recall the name of the thread but it looked pretty informative.

I am for becoming more of what women desire. Plans and games seem kind of silly.

In a nutshell, you need to become the kind of man that can "take" your wife. The kind of man your wife wants to be "taken" by.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Sounds like she is not that into you. Have you tried being more aggressive? Is she getting her needs met some other way.

She sounds like my husband. Sorry you are here.


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## Texansfan (May 8, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> I suspect you telling her in advance that you would like to make love turns it into a chore for her, and possibly sets up a feeling of dread. Which explains why she would avoid you later. My H often takes that approach and honestly, it's not sexy to me at all. I don't feel like he's turned on by me, just that he thinks "it's time" we have sex and I am thinking "one more thing I need to do for him."
> 
> That person who posted about kissing on the back of the neck - that was a lot sexier.
> 
> ...


While I understand your points WorkingWife, when you read this it sounds really exhausting all that he needs to do just to have sex with his wife. To be honest, not sure if it's even worth all the trouble but that is up to him. You can almost say it's unfair that he has to alter his life completely and jump through hoops while his wife does not need to take responsibility for any of this.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Texansfan said:


> While I understand your points WorkingWife, when you read this it sounds really exhausting all that he needs to do just to have sex with his wife. To be honest, not sure if it's even worth all the trouble but that is up to him. You can almost say it's unfair that he has to alter his life completely and jump through hoops while his wife does not need to take responsibility for any of this.


Well I was thinking that if he did these things, or whatever things float his wife's boat, then she would start to want to have sex with him and hopefully they could get back in a better groove. Then he would not have to do that every time! But often enough to let her know she is worth the trouble to him.

If she were posting on here I probably would be suggesting she do her part. 

I do think men and women are very different in what they get from sex. Yes, it feels good to women (when they're turned on by the man) but it's much more emotional for women. If you don't feel cared for, you feel very used. Of course I am just guessing at what is causing his wife's resistance. 

But also men, don't kid yourselves, if your wife really does enjoy having sex with you, she may not want it as often but I don't think she'd completely avoid it so studiously. If your attitude is "It's just too exhausting to try to get you turned on." then odds are your wife feels like a piece of meat and that sets up a big aversion to having sex with you.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> That sounds exhausting to you?
> 
> That sounds like dating behavior to me--like the times when sex was always plentiful and habitual.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, but I think part of Texasfan's problem here is that SOME men also like to be chased. It feels less one-sided that way.

I remember when my relationship with my wife first started, sex was plentiful as you say. But we chased each other. (ok, i probably chased her a little harder)


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Basically, you can't just say "wife I want to have sex tonight" or "do you want to have sex?" that's begging and that's not sexy. You need to woo her and then drop it. Woo her and drop it. Then at some point you get to figure out if you have wooed her sufficiently and initiate sex. But you can't ask her if she is wooed because then she will be un-wooed. If she rejects you, you can't show any emotion, aggravation, or disappointment. Just act like you offered her a glass of water which she politely declined. No big deal. Otherwise you "expect" sex from her. So, back to the wooing. Now realize you've blown your shot by premature initiation, so it's going to take some extra wooing to make up the deficit you have created. If this is how sex actually worked we would have died out long ago. 

I'm kidding mostly. But that's kinda been the message here. Do lots for her. Expect nothing. Which I agree with. In my experience you will do tons and get nothing. Why? Because if you HAVE to do things in order to have sex with your wife AND if the only reason you're doing things for your wife is to have sex with her, something is bad wrong.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

2000 plus years ago a man by the name of Solomon understood what wooing a woman would do for his evening of tantalizing delights.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I just think it seems like we are saying "you have to do x to get sex, but you can't do x to get sex."


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Yeswecan said:


> 2000 plus years ago a man by the name of Solomon understood what wooing a woman would do for his evening of tantalizing delights.


Pics or it didn't happen. :grin2:


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> Pics or it didn't happen. :grin2:


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

FrenchFry said:


> That sounds exhausting to you?
> 
> That sounds like dating behavior to me--like the times when sex was always plentiful and habitual.
> 
> ...


In my humble opinion there has to be equal effort on both sides.

this whole idea that we have to keep dating is great but what about the woman's part of keep dating. Men are supposed to be romantic spend time with her kiss the back of her neck foot rubs etc etc.

what about the woman?

for me I don't mind doing these things but I guess I expect reciprocation no I need reciprocation. If I feel like I'm just jumping through hoops for a woman who doesn't realize that men have needs also then pretty soon the hoops don't matter any more.


IMHO if women want romance and attention then when the get it they should praise it and should show it by giving attention back

But it seems there is a fair bit of women who stop putting effort in and still expect to receive it. Eventually the husband starts slowing the attention and then the woman starts with holding and then a slow slide to I rather rub one out than make love with someone who only desires me if I jump through x y and z hoops to get her in the mood. 

responsive desire in my opinion is their just not that into you and the thought of it make me want to say never mind. at least for me there has to be mutual desire or once I figure out there's not its game over.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> In my humble opinion there has to be equal effort on both sides.
> 
> this whole idea that we have to keep dating is great but what about the woman's part of keep dating. Men are supposed to be romantic spend time with her kiss the back of her neck foot rubs etc etc.
> 
> ...


By and large, if a woman receives accolades, affection and a bit of romance there will be reciprocation. (it is a recurring theme for the wandering spouse in the infidelity section :|). Yes, there are some instances where a woman/man are just not receptive no matter what one does. That then generates a crossroad of decisions to accept or move on.

It is that old saying...marriage is like a garden. Need to water and tend to it everyday. If not, it withers and dies.


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