# Is Divorce Catchy?



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I have an inner circle of a very close group of women.

6.5 years ago...I was the first of the 6 that are married to decide to leave my husband. We all had marriages at least 10 years or longer. When I first told them, all of them basically were very surprised but supportive. A couple were kind of shocked I think because I didn't talk about my marriage much.

Anyway, within two years...I had referred 3 of them to my lawyer (she's great) and then about a year later, 1 more of them got divorced. Last week, one of them called me and told me she's really unhappy and is considering separation and today, the last one of the "married 6" called me to tell me that she's filing. Our whole group might end up entirely divorced from our 1st marriages soon.

I honestly wonder if I started a divorce virus amongst my married friends since I'm so much happier since it happened? Do you think divorce is catchy...like a virus?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I have an inner circle of a very close group of women.
> 
> 6.5 years ago...I was the first of the 6 that are married to decide to leave my husband. We all had marriages at least 10 years or longer. When I first told them, all of them basically were very surprised but supportive. A couple were kind of shocked I think because I didn't talk about my marriage much.
> 
> ...


Ehhh... no. And yes.

I definitely think that the types of conditions that tend to bring about divorces can persist within a social circle.

Throw in the fact that friends tend to be of similar mindsets when it comes to those things, and yes... I think it's possible.

That's not to say that you're at fault for any of it, though.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

It can be.

If their marriages are on the precipice, or they miss or romanticize being single, or what's holding them back is fear that it would be too hard, and you've demonstrated that it's possible.

Or you seem happier after divorce, and maybe they would be, too.

However, I would be very interested if there's a common element to the six of you given the 100% divorce rate for your group. It is implausible, although only slightly so.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Gus nailed it. We tend to cluster around people who are similar to us. And with work people tend to hire similar people. At my last job there were a majority of divorced people whereas at my current job I don't know of anyone who is divorced. 

Likewise with our neighborhood friends, I only know of two families that divorced whereas in my Sister in laws neighborhood there are at least a half dozen divorced family there. You dont live in northern Baltimore do you?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think many people have this idea that divorce means apacolypse, the kids will grow up to be bums and everything will fall apart. In reality this isn't so; I think it's great when marriages are saved but sometimes they just don't work. 

It's possible your friends were unhappily married and saw you divorce, then saw that life didn't end. You didn't fall apart and your kids are ok, and you're much happier, so they have more courage to pursue their own divorces. 

How many here have we seen that really need to divorce but are terrified that they'll be alone, their kids will hate them, everyone will be ruined and homeless?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

similar reasons? how did the inner circle know each other? did the husbands all know each other? similar backgrounds? all married too young? 

did you get a super awesome boyfriend right after the divorce, and they all saw that upgrades were possible and were jealous?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I honestly wonder if I started a divorce virus amongst my married friends since I'm so much happier since it happened? Do you think divorce is catchy...like a virus?


I don't know - how many of their husbands did you sleep with?

(I say, that's a joke, son).


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> However, I would be very interested if there's a common element to the six of you given the 100% divorce rate for your group. It is implausible, although only slightly so.


Well there's 7 of us...one never got married.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> That's not to say that you're at fault for any of it, though.


I honestly never encouraged any of my friends to get divorced. Actually most of us don't talk much about our husbands/marriages until it got to the point where we/they were getting close to leaving the marriage.

And to be fair, the one friend that's still considering divorce, its more being initiated by her husband. I think she's just trying to beat him to the punch because she knows he's checked out anyway.



> You dont live in northern Baltimore do you?


lol..no



> It's possible your friends were unhappily married and saw you divorce, then saw that life didn't end. You didn't fall apart and your kids are ok, and you're much happier, so they have more courage to pursue their own divorces.


Yes, I definitely was much happier as soon as I separated and it showed. However, if I started a trend...it wasn't a great trend to start...its a bit regrettable.



> similar reasons? how did the inner circle know each other? did the husbands all know each other? similar backgrounds?


We're similar in a lot of ways. All career women...mostly career moms. Three of us are college friends....others I met at work. 



> did you get a super awesome boyfriend right after the divorce, and they all saw that upgrades were possible and were jealous?


I am remarried and I definitely upgraded significantly from my ex. It probably had an effect also.



> I don't know - how many of their husbands did you sleep with?


LOL..yuck. Actually, we rarely hang out with the men so the chances of that happening are pretty slim.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

pistal said:


> I think when women become aware that the court are incredibly biased in favor of the non monied spouse, which is usually the women, and when the women realize they can basically rake their husband over the coals and live a very nice post married life on his dime, they happily file the petition and dump the poor guy whose only crime was to promise to love and cherish her until the day he died, and his punishment for doing so is to pay through the nose for a good part of the rest of his life.


Ugh.

Both men and women work, either in or out of the home. Both men and women suffer greatly after divorce. Both men and women rake their spouse over the coals when it comes to divorce. 

It is a known phenomena that people around you divorce after you have done it. Many are divorces waiting to happen but they don't have the courage to initiate it, when they see the strength of others that have gone before them they get the courage.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Holland said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Both men and women work, either in or out of the home. Both men and women suffer greatly after divorce. Both men and women rake their spouse over the coals when it comes to divorce.
> 
> It is a known phenomena that people around you divorce after you have done it. *Many are divorces waiting to happen but they don't have the courage to initiate it, when they see the strength of others that have gone before them they get the courage*.


Akin when nobody wants to jump into the pool because they think the water might be too cold, until a brave soul among the bunch takes the plunge and yells back "Come on in, the water's fine".


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I think when women become aware that the court are incredibly biased in favor of the non monied spouse, which is usually the women, and when the women realize they can basically rake their husband over the coals and live a very nice post married life on his dime, they happily file the petition and dump the poor guy whose only crime was to promise to love and cherish her until the day he died, and his punishment for doing so is to pay through the nose for a good part of the rest of his life.


I didn't rake my ex over the coals. I worked my whole marriage. And this issue isn't gender specific...its higher-earner specific. Its just that more men get conned into financially supporting females than the other way around...but there are cases where working women have to pay too.

The bottom line is that if you allow your spouse to not financially support themselves, then its your fault in divorce when you're stuck paying for them to sit on their butt all day. Its important to read the divorce laws in your state and understand what risks your taking in allowing your spouse to be a financial dependent.

I would NEVER support a non-working spouse....EVER. I don't understand men that do this and then complain when they have to support a helpless, irresponsible dependent after divorce. All adult people should have the responsibility to be self-supporting...if you allow someone to take advantage of you, this is the risk you take.

By the way, the group of women I associate with all have careers and all of them are or will support themselves after divorce and won't be eligible for alimony....so this doesn't apply to any of us.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

pistal said:


> I think when women become aware that the court are incredibly biased in favor of the non monied spouse, which is usually the women, and when the women realize they can basically rake their husband over the coals and live a very nice post married life on his dime, they happily file the petition and dump the poor guy whose only crime was to promise to love and cherish her until the day he died, and his punishment for doing so is to pay through the nose for a good part of the rest of his life.


Life must've dealt you some bad cards. There's a whole lot of us who would not share that point of view of either women or marriage or divorce for that matter.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I
> 
> I would NEVER support a non-working spouse....EVER. I don't understand men that do this and then complain when they have to support a helpless, irresponsible dependent after divorce. All adult people should have the responsibility to be self-supporting...if you allow someone to take advantage of you, this is the risk you take.


NEVER and EVER, in caps no less, are strong words. Pretty much drawing a line in the sand. In both my marriages I and I believe my 2 wives viewed it as mutual sharing and support. Sometimes I worked. Sometime she worked. Sometimes we both worked. I'd like to think if one of us ever became ill and couldn't work, to name just one instance, the other would support the ill spouse. NEVER EVER kind of obliterates that option. NEVER EVER, no matter what? Did all the friends of this divorced story share that philosophy? If so, therein may lie one commonality among the group.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think divorce can happen in clusters of friends for a couple of reasons, and yes it did happen to my circle of friends.

When my ex left she became the worlds best campaigner for "life on the other side", she became totally free of responsibilities (left the kids with me/moved in with another guy/quit her job). I know for a fact she spread the word how great her life was, and in the next year three more couples in our circle broke up, all three divorces initiated by the wives.

Another thing is I think much is based on the age of your kids, many couples stick together while the kids are young even if they are unhappy. Chances are your circle of friends are close to your own ages, their kids are close your kids ages, so all the couples reach that kids grown milestone around the same time. When that happens the glue holding many marriages together dissolves and couples start focusing on themselves as individuals instead of part of a couple, and suddenly "we ain't happy no more" (sounds like a country song, lol).


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

pistal said:


> However when it comes to child support that's another matter entirely. I wonder how many of these women who claim to be independent of their husbands, sued for sole custody and all the tax free child support that goes along with it.
> 
> Many studies have been done, and it's a given that in states where there is not a big financial reward for sole custody, there is much less litigation and conflict and joint custody is often agreed to between the spouses, conversely in states where child support awards are high, almost in every case there is a fight for sole custody. It's all about the money.


I had to pay my ex-husband off - to the tune of a little over $30K - to accept 50/50 custody and visitation every other weekend, one other day per week, 2 weeks during summer break and alternating holidays. He was quite eager to have one weekend a month visitation _only_. It would have cost him a little more money in child support for me to have sole physical custody, but he wouldn't have had to deal with his kid.... I couldn't give him 50/50 custody, I had to pay him to take it! 

Less than ideal character is not gender-specific.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I have an inner circle of a very close group of women.
> 
> 6.5 years ago...I was the first of the 6 that are married to decide to leave my husband. We all had marriages at least 10 years or longer. When I first told them, all of them basically were very surprised but supportive. A couple were kind of shocked I think because I didn't talk about my marriage much.
> 
> ...


I think that's it's definitely trendy. Most people have been divorced or have divorce in their family. It seems to be the accepted thing to do. There's plans for it in schools even as if it's expected to happen. Divorces are way to easy to get and way too damaging to families and particularly men. The time has come to fix the divorce laws and make them fair and to be used only when absolutely necessary, not at will.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> Divorces are way to easy to get


You can thank "no fault" laws for that. Before that, you had to prove fault. With no-fault, basically you go to court, say "i don't want to be married any longer", and walk away.

I think divorce tends to happen in clusters around people of like ages... e.g. people who are married 7 years (no more PEA chemicals), people whose kids are in high school (able to handle the stress and understand), people whose kids are in college (empty nesters), etc.

Almost everyone I know these days is divorced.

We need to move away from the "marriage for life" contract to term-specific civil unions, with pre-determined property settlement agreements upon expiration of the term.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think many people have this idea that divorce means apacolypse, the kids will grow up to be bums and everything will fall apart. In reality this isn't so; I think it's great when marriages are saved but sometimes they just don't work.
> 
> It's possible your friends were unhappily married and saw you divorce, then saw that life didn't end. You didn't fall apart and your kids are ok, and you're much happier, so they have more courage to pursue their own divorces.
> 
> ...


I think LTS' post combined with the fact that your girlfriends were financially independent made it easier for them to make the decision to divorce after seeing you divorce. The outcome would probably be different if more of them were financially dependent on their spouse. 

Divorce is an emotionally brutal process but it can be terrifying to those lacking the means to support themselves. It's easy to say "hey jump into the ocean, the water is great" when you're wearing a life jacket or know how to swim.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> NEVER and EVER, in caps no less, are strong words. Pretty much drawing a line in the sand. In both my marriages I and I believe my 2 wives viewed it as mutual sharing and support. Sometimes I worked. Sometime she worked. Sometimes we both worked. I'd like to think if one of us ever became ill and couldn't work, to name just one instance, the other would support the ill spouse. NEVER EVER kind of obliterates that option. NEVER EVER, no matter what? Did all the friends of this divorced story share that philosophy? If so, therein may lie one commonality among the group.


My spouse saves/invests his money in the event he can't work and so do I. We both also have extensive insurance in the event of illness or death.

It requires planning but I can support myself and so can my partner. I would never expect or rely on him to support me or my children acquired with my ex-husband...that's my responsibility, not his.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

pistal said:


> I think when women become aware that the court are incredibly biased in favor of the non monied spouse, which is usually the women, and when the women realize they can basically rake their husband over the coals and live a very nice post married life on his dime, they happily file the petition and dump the poor guy whose only crime was to promise to love and cherish her until the day he died, and his punishment for doing so is to pay through the nose for a good part of the rest of his life.


EXACTLY!! and that's the reason this has to stop instead of become an accepted part of society.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

EnigmaGirl said:


> My spouse saves/invests his money in the event he can't work and so do I. We both also have extensive insurance in the event of illness or death.
> 
> It requires planning but I can support myself and so can my partner. I would never expect or rely on him to support me or my children acquired with my ex-husband...that's my responsibility, not his.


Most women don't feel this way or want to do the responsible thing. They look at it as an opportunity to live off of someone else.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Many studies have been done, and it's a given that in states where there is not a big financial reward for sole custody, there is much less litigation and conflict and joint custody is often agreed to between the spouses, conversely in states where child support awards are high, almost in every case there is a fight for sole custody. It's all about the money.


My ex sued ME for sole custody. It was absolutely ridiculous. I spent about 15k in psych/custody evaluations for the litigation nonsense I went through. I offered joint from the beginning and ended up with sole because he flipped out on the custody evaluator although I allow him equal parenting time because I felt it was important that our children have equal access to both parents.

I don't get child support and never requested it. I'm not sure about all my friends with kids because I don't know the variance in incomes with their spouses. I doubt they'd be eligible for much though at their salary levels.

Things are changing Pistal...both alimony laws and child support laws. Joint custody is becoming more standard and courts are tiring of paying non-working spouses huge sums of money for unlimited amounts of time. There's already a lot of states making alimony reforms and more will happen. No one should be responsible for supporting an able-bodied adult after divorce...I agree with you there.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Most women don't feel this way or want to do the responsible thing. They look at it as an opportunity to live off of someone else.


I can't speak for most women. In the circle of women I associate with, being financially self-supporting is a matter of responsibility and self-respect. I was raised to have a sense of pride in being self-sufficient and independent. My mom had 5 kids and worked her whole life. I have two girls and they're raised the same way.

My oldest daughter is working on a master's degree, works, has a financial advisor and doesn't seem to have any intention of getting married anytime soon (not that I wouldn't mind grandchildren).

As I said, things are changing...its unfortunate its taking so much time to happen though.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> somewomen don't feel this way or want to do the responsible thing. They look at it as an opportunity to live off of someone else.


ifify.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I think that's it's definitely trendy. Most people have been divorced or have divorce in their family. It seems to be the accepted thing to do. There's plans for it in schools even as if it's expected to happen. Divorces are way to easy to get and way too damaging to families and particularly men. The time has come to fix the divorce laws and make them fair and to be used only when absolutely necessary, not at will.


I half agree with this. 

I actually don't think the divorce rate is a problem. I think people should have the right to get out of a bad/unfulfilling marriage. The problem, in my opinion, is that marriage isn't a renewable contract and its too hard to get out of.

I do agree, however, that divorce laws need to change....particularly alimony laws. No one should have to support an able-bodied adult after divorce. If you decide to not work during marriage and haven't saved/planned for money mitigation in the event of divorce...then you assume the extreme risk. But the other spouse should only be responsible for that during marriage...not after...because after marriage, its no longer a joint decision.

Unless someone is ill and unable to work...alimony laws need to be abolished.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

pistal said:


> I think when women become aware that the court are incredibly biased in favor of the non monied spouse, which is usually the women, and when the women realize they can basically rake their husband over the coals and live a very nice post married life on his dime, they happily file the petition and dump the poor guy whose only crime was to promise to love and cherish her until the day he died, and his punishment for doing so is to pay through the nose for a good part of the rest of his life.


lol


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

pistal said:


> I appreciate the responses to my post and I'm sorry if I offended any women that do not live off of their exhusband's paycheck.
> 
> As it has been suggested by others, it's usually the husband that takes the hit but sometimes it's the wife, depending on who was the primary wage earner, and yes I agree that it's often the fault of the breadwinner to allow this to occur and set the stage for major problems if the marriage fails.
> 
> ...


In Aus sole custody is very, very rarely awarded, there has to be an incredible case for this to happen. Most people here do not end up before a Judge and 50/50 custody or close to is becoming the norm.

Assets built up during a marriage are not the property of the main earner, they are built up as joint assets and rightly so. The notion that just because someone earns more that the money is theirs is ludicrous, if these same people had to pay the true cost of child care, cleaner etc I bet they would whinge even louder.

We don't have alimony here but we do have child support and the formula is usually quite fair, it is based on number of children, their ages and any disabilities. Even so we have an extraordinary number of non payers (vast majority are men).
The most financially disadvantaged sector of society is single mums, the housing figures are shocking with single mums being the most likely to be homeless and under the poverty line.

Child support is a basic human right for children, it ****s me when parents (men and women) begrudge supporting their own children, like they are trash to be thrown away. 

Women that have given up their careers to care for their children, husband and home are not just scum that can also be tossed away when a marriage ends. The assets equally belong to them, what sort of a person denies this? It takes an awful lot of paid and unpaid work to run a family, I bet these men that begrudge child support would not have worked for their employer for no income just to help the company run well.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Holland said:


> I bet these men that begrudge child support would not have worked for their employer for no income just to help the company run well.


Most men I know don't begrudge child support, they begrudge the child support being spent on liposuction and new breasts so the ex can trap the next guy, rather than the money being spent where it is supposed to be: on the child.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I have an inner circle of a very close group of women.
> 
> 6.5 years ago...I was the first of the 6 that are married to decide to leave my husband. We all had marriages at least 10 years or longer. When I first told them, all of them basically were very surprised but supportive. A couple were kind of shocked I think because I didn't talk about my marriage much.
> 
> ...


I think that people plotting a way out don't need much of a push after they see others do it. Kinda like the sheepeople effect. I think they saw you do, saw you were ok, and then followed. the greatest fear of divorce is the unknown so seeing a clear example of it turned out ok speaks loudly.

Age also has to do with it. I was the first of my friends to get divorced and many soon followed. All were 10 + years in and approaching late 30s. I filed the first time I discovered my x wife's affair. One of my friends caught his wife cheating 3 times and never said a word to anyone. Soon as he saw me file he followed within a month.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Holland said:


> In Aus sole custody is very, very rarely awarded, there has to be an incredible case for this to happen. Most people here do not end up before a Judge and 50/50 custody or close to is becoming the norm.
> 
> Assets built up during a marriage are not the property of the main earner, they are built up as joint assets and rightly so. The notion that just because someone earns more that the money is theirs is ludicrous, if these same people had to pay the true cost of child care, cleaner etc I bet they would whinge even louder.
> 
> ...


That may be the case in Aus. I can tell you it isn't always the case here. In my state they use a generic formula based on expenses (arbitrary) and kids you have....through this formula they spit out a percentage and that's what you pay. Makes no difference what your take home pay is or bills.... that's what you pay. My x wife tried for alimony but I had leverage to get her fired so she pulled it. She then tried for child support. The judge told me I would be ordered to pay 1k a month child support. I didn't have that. I told him I would loose our house, you know the house my kids were born in, and he looked at me directly and said "I don't care, that's what the state orders you to pay". All with my x sitting 5 ft away laughing.

So here it's more important to pay whatever the formula spits out and be homeless than provide for your kid. Now as the rest of the story goes I was able to convince the judge that I would just pay ALL the daycare expenses for the kids 900$ and fortunately for me that's EXACTLY how he wrote it in the decree so the first thing I did was pull my kids out of the expensive daycare and put them in a private daycare which was less by 1/2. My x wasn't laughing anymore. I still had to sell my truck and a few things to make ends meet for a couple of years. Finally my x gets promoted , all the screwing around paid off finally, and she makes as much as I do. Well I told her she is going to pay 1/2 now which she doesn't like one bit lol.

Point of all this is yes child support should be paid but should be paid based on what can be paid....legitimately. Not some ridged formula. Non payment is also a huge problem in the U.S. And more men avoiding payment than women. Some of the guys are lowlifes and go "off grid" to avoid payments..scum. Others end up having thier wages garnished, drivers license revoked, loose thier house and so on. That's not right either


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> One of my friends caught his wife cheating 3 times and never said a word to anyone. Soon as he saw me file he followed within a month.


Depending on how complicated your life is, sometimes it is better to wait and plan for the exit (gives you more time to stash money in cayman island bank accounts, for instance) than it is to immediately jump off the ship.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

Rather than de-valuing marriage by turning it into something it is not, I would rather see a relationship contract just like a business contract where it can have expirations and renewals and even escape clauses so you can leave anytime for any reason. Leave marriage as it is. Then people can choose which one they would prefer to enter into. 

As to whether divorce is "catchy" I think absolutely. If marriage is important to you its best to spend time around those who are successful at it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Yes it is catchy. Someone mentioned their ex selling the idea to her friends. This is something you hear all the time.."I'm so much happier now..." "it was the best thing I ever did...why did wait so long" You almost never hear "wow, I made a huge mistake..." "I was so stupid, I wish I had my family back...." Its human nature (and weakness) not to be able to be honest with ourselves much less our peers when the truth isn't flattering. Divorce gets sold as being "the best thing I ever did" which is far from the reality for many who file for it. Misery does love company....


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## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

Well, 97% of all alimony money is paid by men, so I don't why everyone is so offended, not to mention much greater chances of being awarded custody of children and subsequently, the child support for a couple of decades. However, I see things becoming more balanced, even in the biased family courts, so the future looks a little brighter.

As to women marrying and divorcing in groups, I find it scary as hell, personally. I saw my younger sister and her 8 or 9 friends get married in one year, and half of them leave their husbands in one day. It feels as if their individual relation to their husband, doesn't matter nearly as much as what the friends are doing. This type of bee hive mentality and behavior has always been perplexing to me, however I see social benefits in it as well. Men tend to be more individual and base their decisions on their unique situation, relation and common sense, more so than based on what someone down the street is doing. As a man, that seems to make a lot more sense.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

Funny, you pose that question because a similar dynamic happened with my mom & her group of friends. When my mom decided to leave my father after 24 years of marriage, it seemed like some of her girlfriends started following suit! Come to find out her friends were unhappy in their marriages too but never really spoke too much about it.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

JustTired said:


> Come to find out her friends were unhappy in their marriages too


It has been my experience the vast majority of people are "unhappy" in their marriages. I would say at least 3 out of 4 to 4 out of 5.

Mostly, I think its a "grass is greener" phenomenon.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Funny how the topic slides back down to the same old things so often. I live in a low divorce neighborhood (yes, I know of some high neighborhoods characterized by overly expensive homes requireing 3 incomes to pay for) So when a family broke up last year, the momentum of the solid marriages in the area tended to dampen out the catchy effect. Anyway I'm finally in a financially situation sutch that I could afford a divorce. I would say that money and the kids ages do change the way I think. 
MN


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Constable Odo said:


> It has been my experience the vast majority of people are "unhappy" in their marriages. I would say at least 3 out of 4 to 4 out of 5.
> 
> Mostly, I think its a "grass is greener" phenomenon.


It seems for many people (most?) focusing on the negative is easy and their natural state. It takes awareness and effort to focus on the positives and keep it so. A theory.


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Shoto1984 said:


> It seems for many people (most?) focusing on the negative is easy and their natural state. It takes awareness and effort to focus on the positives and keep it so. A theory.


Bingo. It takes effort to keep a marriage rolling. By both parties. When one decides it's too much effort and/or things haven't lived exactly up to the way they fantasized it, they bail.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think many people have this idea that divorce means apacolypse, the kids will grow up to be bums and everything will fall apart. In reality this isn't so; I think it's great when marriages are saved but sometimes they just don't work.
> 
> It's possible your friends were unhappily married and saw you divorce, then saw that life didn't end. You didn't fall apart and your kids are ok, and you're much happier, so they have more courage to pursue their own divorces.
> 
> ...


True, divorce is not the end of the world, but for many (most?) of us it truly is a traumatic event. However, I think the way we use social media to present ourselves to our friends and peers tends to romanticize the divorce/separation - when we divorce we tend to put on our brave face, utilize whatever positive messages (which tend to be quotes we re-post on facebook and pinterest) we find to help us cope and to an outsider looking at us would think "wow this person has really got it together, has learned and grown so much since divorcing and seems to be someone more passionate about life and interesting to be around, maybe if I didn't have the deadweight of a tough/difficult marriage I could be that happy too" (not knowing that for many the grief and pain goes deep and leaves permanent scars).


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Point of all this is yes child support should be paid but should be paid based on what can be paid....legitimately. Not some ridged formula. Non payment is also a huge problem in the U.S. And more men avoiding payment than women. Some of the guys are lowlifes and go "off grid" to avoid payments..scum. Others end up having thier wages garnished, drivers license revoked, loose thier house and so on. That's not right either


Good friend of mine, in his first divorce, was a retired Marine who worked part time for himself doing contract programming while he was in school finishing a bachelor's degree in computer science. His wife came from a politically connected, well-off family.

At his divorce, the judge ordered him to go find a job paying a minimum of $40k per year (this is in a state where the median income was about $25k/annually and household incomes barely make it above $35k/year) and, if he didn't get such a job, he would be thrown in jail.

So, in his case, he was ordered to pay based on what the judge "thought" he should pay (apparently the judge was an expert in human resources, the job market, and salaries of the area) and not what he was able to pay based on his current income and life circumstances.

Did he find such a job? Sure, he had to travel quite a bit for it, and had to give up going to school to complete his degree for several years (unable to attend classes due to his work schedule), but he was able to squeak by.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Women that have given up their careers to care for their children, husband and home are not just scum that can also be tossed away when a marriage ends. The assets equally belong to them, what sort of a person denies this?



Assets acquired during marriage belong equally to both spouses, however, the salary that the working spouse earns AFTER divorce...aside what is required for the children...does not. It belongs to the working spouse.

If you're an adult and you get divorced, you have a responsibility to earn your own income....no working spouse should be burdened after the marriage end to support someone who makes a personal decision not to work. That's ridiculous.

Non-working spouses need to understand and accept they're taking a risk not working during marriage in the event of a marital breakdown. The working spouse should not be a slave to the person deciding not to earn a living...especially after marriage. And courts are starting to get up to speed with this reality.

Alimony laws are changing...a lot of states are putting strict terms on both the amount and the time period that is allowed for one divorce spouse to sponge off of another financially and for good reason. I wouldn't be surprised if alimony ceased altogether.

Adult people need to act like adults and be able to be self-supporting in the event of a marital breakdown. The divorce rate is a reality.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> If marriage is important to you its best to spend time around those who are successful at it.


It does, however, depend on what you define as success in marriage.

For instance, I know a lot of people who've been married forever that are MISERABLE. Length of a marriage isn't necessarily an indicator of success, in my opinion.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Divorce gets sold as being "the best thing I ever did" which is far from the reality for many who file for it


In my case, aside from having my children, divorce truly was the best thing I ever did...and it showed.

After I separated, everything changed...most notably my health. Its no accident that all my health metrics got significantly better after separation. I cannot tell you how many people asked me what I was doing and simply told me that they were glad to see my smiling/laughing so much.

I never advised or suggested anyone in my group get divorced. In fact, marriage isn't a big topic of conversation for us...we talk about our children and our jobs. So it certainly wasn't my intention to sway my friends into divorce but I do think that just based on the fact that my life turned from difficult to amazing may have done just that.

I am not trying to glamorize divorce...but there is NOTHING worse than a bad marriage. And I didn't take my divorce lightly...I was married for over 20 years. But the reality is there are a lot of very, very happy divorced people...I was one of them.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

EnigmaGirl said:


> *It does, however, depend on what you define as success in marriage.*
> 
> For instance, I know a lot of people who've been married forever that are MISERABLE. Length of a marriage isn't necessarily an indicator of success, in my opinion.


Agreed with the bold part - all has to do with what goals you choose to set. For some, being constantly happy isn't the measure of success either (at least in terms of what they define as successful marriage).


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Constable Odo said:


> Most men I know don't begrudge child support, they begrudge the child support being spent on liposuction and new breasts so the ex can trap the next guy, rather than the money being spent where it is supposed to be: on the child.


How much are these people paying in CS? I just paid out over $10k for lipo, no way the average CS is going to cover this sort of thing. Sounds more like urban myth to me.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> ...............................
> 
> Point of all this is yes child support should be paid but should be paid based on what can be paid....legitimately. Not some ridged formula. Non payment is also a huge problem in the U.S. And more men avoiding payment than women. Some of the guys are lowlifes and go "off grid" to avoid payments..scum. Others end up having thier wages garnished, drivers license revoked, loose thier house and so on. That's not right either


Yes the formula should be based on what is affordable. Here it is but even so there is a big percentage of the population that still carry on, whinge and don't pay it.
I know handfuls of women that are not receiving the CS that they should be, my sisters ex pays nothing and she has the 2 kids 90% of the time (his choice) and pays 100% of all costs. He stopped full time work and she works full time plus so THEIR kids eat and get educated.

I have 4 friends whos high earning husbands magically became very low earners when they divorced.

And know of many that get such a small amount (like $11 month for 5 kids) it is a joke. Of all the women I know that are the payers, ALL of them pay the full amount.

It is a huge problem in this country, not the amount that has to be paid but actually enforcing payments.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Assets acquired during marriage belong equally to both spouses, however, the salary that the working spouse earns AFTER divorce...aside what is required for the children...does not. It belongs to the working spouse.
> 
> *If you're an adult and you get divorced, you have a responsibility to earn your own income.*...no working spouse should be burdened after the marriage end to support someone who makes a personal decision not to work. That's ridiculous.
> 
> ..............


It is interesting because very few women do not work in Aussie and I have never met one that did not work after divorce. Maybe it is different in the US but here most people work.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> It is interesting because very few women do not work in Aussie and I have never met one that did not work after divorce. Maybe it is different in the US but here most people work.


Its unfortunate but there's far too many SAHPs here who get divorced and expect their ex to pay them indefinitely so they can continue to make the choice to sit around and not work. Its ridiculous.

Luckily the laws are changing and alimony is becoming capped and extremely termed.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Holland said:


> How much are these people paying in CS? I just paid out over $10k for lipo, no way the average CS is going to cover this sort of thing. Sounds more like urban myth to me.


My friend was paying his ex thousands a month in CS and alimony (and that was in a 50/50 shared custody arrangement). She didn't use it on lipo, but she did use it to sustain a party lifestyle and a substantial marijuana habit.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Holland said:


> Yes the formula should be based on what is affordable. Here it is but even so there is a big percentage of the population that still carry on, whinge and don't pay it.
> I know handfuls of women that are not receiving the CS that they should be, my sisters ex pays nothing and she has the 2 kids 90% of the time (his choice) and pays 100% of all costs. He stopped full time work and she works full time plus so THEIR kids eat and get educated.
> 
> I have 4 friends whos high earning husbands magically became very low earners when they divorced.
> ...


Interesting....

So what if anything does the government do about no payment there? they do alot here but people can still avoid if they are willing to live off grid or under the table type thing


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## Jeffyboy (Apr 7, 2015)

I think it makes it more "ok" because you know somebody in your circle. If you didn't know anybody who got divorced, you'd have less desire to divorce IMO.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Wolf the Govt can garnish wages but generally the system is piss weak. People just seem to get away with not paying and unless the person that is supposed to be getting the payment keep going back to court then nothing happens. One of the biggest problems are the ones that all of a sudden don't earn what they used to eg a few of my friends who's ex used to earn the $250k plus types of income all of a sudden earn 1/4 of that. These are professionals that run their own businesses and can hide an awful lot of income via buying cars etc out of the business. They pump money into Super and other assets to hide their real income. Keep in mind we have no alimony so all the payer is expected to pay is a fair amount to help cover the cost of kids.

I have friends at the other end of the spectrum, lower wage earners and no difference, their ex's cut their work hours and/or simply don't pay what they owe. There are millions if not more in unpaid CS here.

People like my ex BIL just don't pay. He is supposed to pay half for education, sports, after school care etc but he simply doesn't pay. 

I am fortunate enough that the ex and I both have the best interests of our kids at heart. We do 50/50 shared care (which is not what I wanted but who am I to say he has less parental rights than me. It actually caused me great distress at the time of divorce for which I needed counselling, I had been their primary carer since birth and put every minute of my day into caring for them, driving them around, going to lessons, sports etc. It was life shattering at the start when I only had them 50% of the time). He pays me CS but less than the deemed amount because we were both happy with that. We pay 50/50 for all their costs which is over and above CS, sports etc. But he is very fortunate that my dad helps with education as it is very exy here $25 - $30k per child x 3 kids, the money my dad pays comes off the overall cost so the ex pays his half of a lower amount for which he is very greatful. 

Anyway I digress, is a freezing cold, stay inside day here so I feel quite chatty.


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## MrBeaman (May 23, 2015)

My ex started talking to a friend that was planning on separating...she then cheated on me and then we separated....so there may be some real results to this theory...

As for child support, the system is majorly flawed in Canada as well. I have no problem paying child support. It's the way that it is calculated that is the problem. If i make twice as much money the year after we divorce, i have to pay twice as much child support. Even though the amount that i paid the year before was more than sufficient. The more I advance myself in my career, the more I have to give her. The more I make the more I get penalized. There should be a baseline maximum to pay. She doesn't need $900 a month when we have 50/50 joint custody (and she works full time). Plus it's all tax free. I literally give her 22% of everything I make (tax free). There's something wrong there.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Holland said:


> How much are these people paying in CS? I just paid out over $10k for lipo, no way the average CS is going to cover this sort of thing. Sounds more like urban myth to me.


My child support, based on my income at the time of $60k, was $1400 per month.

My ex-wife made $40k.

After taxes and child support, I had enough to live in a van down by the river.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I have an inner circle of a very close group of women.
> 
> 6.5 years ago...I was the first of the 6 that are married to decide to leave my husband. We all had marriages at least 10 years or longer. When I first told them, all of them basically were very surprised but supportive. A couple were kind of shocked I think because I didn't talk about my marriage much.
> 
> ...


Being unhappy in marriage is not contagious. The direction to take when unhappy in a marriage is most definitely contagious though.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

70% of divorces are started by women. Hmm.
Why not with current divorce laws in pretty much the western world thanks to mangina politicians and other simps, why would they not have their cake and eat it too because it's about "feelings" don't you know.
Ah forget that disposable male in the corner.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Here is a great vid 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr-e4RqWdag


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Yeah because guys are never the ones who destroy the marriage.....


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Rowan said:


> Yeah because guys are never the ones who destroy the marriage.....


Here is a scary stat.

Up to 70% Japanese men are NOT getting married EVER thanks to feminism.
Germany's birth rate is down.
Men are telling women to kick rocks in droves because of seeing their fathers and/or friends getting screwed in divorce.
Look up MGTOW.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-A39U4mwMc
He lives in Japan.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

If my wife were unhappy but too afraid to leave then I'd hope someone would give her a shot of courage because that's just not the type of marriage I'd want any part of.


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