# Porn destroying relationship



## lovedandalone

My fiance is fine with me watching porn.
she is not fine with what it leads to.

I start with just your normal generic internet porn, overtime start getting into the more weirder ****(still not a problem), it eventually moves into people we know, her relatives on occasion, and my ex girlfriends.
this is a cycle that repeats about every year, and I don't know why.
its not like I sit down and say hey I am going to sit down and rub one out to my wifes sister, or a girl I had crush on it high school.

during the process of ..getting there.., and when i watch porn i like it to take a long time, reality kind of fades away, and I end up in an extremely weird state of mind, kinda like being drunk, and I think this is okay. but immediately after i finish, i just feel so wrong and dirty.
and my fiance has told me that on some occasions shes noticed that I do this, but don't finish on porn, i've gone into the bedroom, woke her up and finished with her.
I honestly don't recall doing this, but if she says it's happened i believe her.

any one else dealt with this, know of a way to stop.
again this is a yearly cycle, resets when I get caught, and the reason I start watching porn in the first place is a way to get tired, and when it starts 10 minutes is all I need, then over time it increases, I've known it to take 5 hours, not because it takes me that long, but because i want it to, the orgasm is better the longer it takes. but as an adverse effect, when i get to these extremely long masturbation sessions, it gets harder to last long during sex.


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## lenzi

5 HOURS of masturbating?

If nothing else that's a big waste of time.

Not to mention that you probably get really hungry at some point.


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## CEL

Okay brother I am going to give it to you straight.

1. Your an addict. You use a substance to self soothe yourself. 

2. 5 hours of masturbation is not good for the equipment. When you continue a behavior that causes you to damage you body that is a sign of addiction. That is also damages your relationship is another sign.

3. Bet you really look forward to it? Like it the main part of your day you yearn for it, look forward to it, it is and event for you.

4. When you are alone I bet you mind becomes inflamed with the desire to do it like you can't think of anything else.

5. You try to stop but you keep going back and when you do you think this time I will only do it once a week or this time I will not go to that extreme. But everytime you slowly get right back to that point.

6. You know it is not okay but you just keep doing it.


So how do you get better.

1. Realize you can't do this alone. You need to be honest with you girl everytime you want to do it wake her up and talk to her. If she is not home then text her.

2. Go on a sex addiction forum for some help see if you can get into a group near you.

3. Have you girl put parental controls on the internet or on the computer. Understand this is just like removing the bottle from the house for an alcoholic.

4. Don't beat yourself up every come across a problem that they need help with. This is yours.


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## CallaLily

Seek out a specialist who deals with sex addicts.
Your g/f might want to seek help too, she needs a better understanding of how this has effected you, and the effects its had on her. I'm sure it effects her more than you realize.


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## DvlsAdvc8

I'm all for masturbation and even porn, but this is problematic. I recommend going to reddit.com/r/nofap

You need to "reset", and you'll need support of those in similar positions to do so.


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## TikiKeen

Her relatives make porn? I call Alert on this one.


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## lovedandalone

no her relatives do not make porn, but i look at pictures allot to, and facebook has allot of pictures


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## DvlsAdvc8

Own it and get control of it... you really can train your brain. Set some standards for yourself, one of which being to not mb to those fb pics. Feel good about the fact that you won't do it. I think you'll find a lot people facing similar on nofap and that will really help. Lots of stories that really show how bad it can get and all the problems that can arise.


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## LorenzoP

I have two really good resources for you.
From what you write, you seem to have a problem but only YOU can determine if its an addiction and you need help.
But if you do you CAN find others and help!

You are not alone. | Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous

Hazelden -- Addiction Treatment Center


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## Fordsvt

Wow five hours of porn and jerking off. Then you wake her up to finish? Seek some professional help. She doesn't deserve that and must feel violated by that. 

Men are very visual. It's our downfall as sexual beings. I've just discovered how much emotion drives females. I thought it was 100 percent. It's more like 199. The learning never stops.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## now_awake

sexhelp.com

resources for both you and your partner. Good luck. If you choose recovery, it's a long and arduous road, but a worthy one. You both deserve health and peace of mind. 

My H has had so many good men help him through the recovery process. I hope you find the same.


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## Blondilocks

Men aren't any more 'visual' than women. That's an old excuse. Watching porn is an escape mechanism.

What I can't wrap my brain around is that people think they have the right to look at various naked bodies after getting married.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Blondilocks said:


> What I can't wrap my brain around is that people think they have the right to look at various naked bodies after getting married.


I can't wrap my brain around why a naked body is so offensive to some people. What's next? Not allowing your partner to go to the beach because swimsuits are too skimpy?

People have the right to do whatever they want to do, regardless of who can wrap their brain around such rights.

No one has the right to control someone. You have the right to choose someone who's ideology matches your own... and that's all.

If women aren't less visual than men, why do you think that women in general watch far less porn than men?


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## notmarriedyet

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I can't wrap my brain around why a naked body is so offensive to some people. What's next? Not allowing your partner to go to the beach because swimsuits are too skimpy?
> 
> People have the right to do whatever they want to do, regardless of who can wrap their brain around such rights.
> 
> No one has the right to control someone. You have the right to choose someone who's ideology matches your own... and that's all.
> 
> If women aren't less visual than men, why do you think that women in general watch far less porn than men?


I also agree women are no less visual than men. 

Statistical porn viewing among gender has nothing to do with whether or not we are more or less visual than men. 

And if you really need a reason - just look at porn. Maybe you don't watch it? It's not AT ALL WHATSOEVER made for us women folks viewing pleasure. To see a hot man if like to do dirty things to, I gotta watch gay porn basically. 
You think we are less visual? It's a bit insulting. Believe me, I'm not thinking of Homer Simpson when I masturbate. 

I also agree that this, "men are visual, we need porn to get off!" Is an overused and tired ridiculous excuse of sorts. Then in the same breath tell us that it has nothing to do with us women, but need to look at 18 year olds to spank it to. Please. 

Just say what ya mean. 

We wanna look at young hot ass because we are tired of looking at you and would like some variety once in a while. We don't wanna screw you all the time. We wanna imagine exploding all over miss teen USA, ok wife?

Good god, I'd marry the man who had the blessed balls to tell me that instead of dancing around the issue with BS. Give me truth and honesty as I give. Man up. Admit it. Sheesh. 

You wanna hide crap and lie to me? Bye! Even about porn? You bet. I ask you a question, you look me in the face and lie, buh-bye. 

Sorry - end rant! 

Signed, 
A ticked off broad tired of being lied to. Yes, I'm bitter. At least I own it.


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## lifeistooshort

notmarriedyet said:


> I also agree women are no less visual than men.
> 
> Statistical porn viewing among gender has nothing to do with whether or not we are more or less visual than men.
> 
> And if you really need a reason - just look at porn. Maybe you don't watch it? It's not AT ALL WHATSOEVER made for us women folks viewing pleasure. To see a hot man if like to do dirty things to, I gotta watch gay porn basically.
> You think we are less visual? It's a bit insulting. Believe me, I'm not thinking of Homer Simpson when I masturbate.
> 
> I also agree that this, "men are visual, we need porn to get off!" Is an overused and tired ridiculous excuse of sorts. Then in the same breath tell us that it has nothing to do with us women, but need to look at 18 year olds to spank it to. Please.
> 
> Just say what ya mean.
> 
> We wanna look at young hot ass because we are tired of looking at you and would
> like some variety once in a while. We don't wanna screw you all the time. We wanna imagine exploding all over miss teen USA, ok wife?
> 
> Good god, I'd marry the man who had the blessed balls to tell me that instead of dancing around the issue with BS. Give me truth and honesty as I give. Man up. Admit it. Sheesh.
> 
> You wanna hide crap and lie to me? Bye! Even about porn? You bet. I ask you a question, you look me in the face and lie, buh-bye.
> 
> Sorry - end rant!
> 
> Signed,
> A ticked off broad tired of being lied to. Yes, I'm bitter. At least I own it.


Ha ha, you forgot "porn has nothing to do with you, but could you do x, y, and z that I saw in porn"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DvlsAdvc8

notmarriedyet said:


> I also agree women are no less visual than men.
> 
> Statistical porn viewing among gender has nothing to do with whether or not we are more or less visual than men.
> 
> And if you really need a reason - just look at porn. Maybe you don't watch it? It's not AT ALL WHATSOEVER made for us women folks viewing pleasure. To see a hot man if like to do dirty things to, I gotta watch gay porn basically.
> You think we are less visual? It's a bit insulting. Believe me, I'm not thinking of Homer Simpson when I masturbate.


Supply meets demand. If there are huge numbers of women clamoring for porn to suite their taste, then the industry would serve the demand. I don't know if it is a result of the way women are expected to behave in western culture, but women have NEVER represented themselves as men do in porn watching even among the more classy genres that appeal most to women... which is typically the more softcore artsy stuff with more backstory. This is true even in magazines. Playgirl, for example, has been around long before the internet... with hardly a fraction of the viewership of playboy.

If women aren't viewing porn, its not because what they want to see isn't out there. Its because they aren't seeking it. If you think otherwise then you stand to make some good money by starting a porn site catering to women. EVERYTHING is out there to be found. Don't get too excited about that money making opportunity though, as sites catering to women do exist... and others with rating systems allow you to filter by female user preference (by which I learned, ya'll are into just as freaky crap as we are lol).

Most women I've known tell the same line. They're not really turned on by watching bad acting and random people having sex. They're more turned on by the build up and overly romanticized (non-)sex in main stream movies... and they rarely go looking for it.



notmarriedyet said:


> I also agree that this, "men are visual, we need porn to get off!" Is an overused and tired ridiculous excuse of sorts. Then in the same breath tell us that it has nothing to do with us women, but need to look at 18 year olds to spank it to. Please.
> 
> Just say what ya mean.
> 
> We wanna look at young hot ass because we are tired of looking at you and would like some variety once in a while. We don't wanna screw you all the time. We wanna imagine exploding all over miss teen USA, ok wife?
> 
> Good god, I'd marry the man who had the blessed balls to tell me that instead of dancing around the issue with BS. Give me truth and honesty as I give. Man up. Admit it. Sheesh.
> 
> You wanna hide crap and lie to me? Bye! Even about porn? You bet. I ask you a question, you look me in the face and lie, buh-bye.


A guy doesn't need porn to get off. We have stored plenty of images in our heads. Watching porn is just more graphic and present.

You're viewing it as a porn vs real scenario and I don't think that's it... its certainly not for me. I currently have sex pretty much whenever I want it, but my real sex to porn ratio is still probably 10 to 1. Getting as much sex as I want, I still watch porn from time to time. The 1 is there because sometimes I want to look and be lazy without guilt. Some of my fantasies aren't things I actually WANT to do in real life. My expression of those fantasies via watching porn are not even the slightest of statements about any real woman.

Porn simply can't compete with a real woman's hands running down my body... my hand can't compete with her vagina or her mouth, and porn doesn't respond with pleasure to my actions. A real woman doesn't have to be miss teen USA.

Porn is just eye candy and fantasy. Its having a candy bar once in awhile. Its being turned on, instead of virtually always doing the turning on. Its literally a "turn us on" switch that only requires pressing play instead of a lengthy warm her up session. Yeah, sometimes we're not turned on enough to want to come turn you on. Sometimes we want to BE turned on and BE lazy, to gawk at some pictures and get off nice and easy. So what?

As long as watching porn isn't replacing actual real sex, then I don't see why anyone has a problem (and by real sex, I mean sex that he would have wanted to have if porn didn't exist - which for me, would be none. The times I watch porn when I have a readily available partner are times I just don't feel like having sex).

I don't condone hiding or lying about it. I don't know why anyone would. Is she shaming me about it? Well, a woman who has a problem with the way I express my sexuality can gtfo. Its that simple. This is no different than any other sexual lifestyle choice imo. If I'm a swinger and she doesn't want to swing, so long. So on and so forth.

But truly, its not that we'd rather jerk off to miss teen USA than have real sex with a real woman. You're hurt and you want to believe that... you want to confirm what you think you know, but its not true. Really.

Bottom line, we watch it because we want to watch it, and that is 99% of the time completely independent of you. If non-abusive porn watching is such a problem for you, find someone else. Personally, I wouldn't date a woman with issues over porn... it would just come off crazy jealous and control freaky to me. Even more absurd would be those who demand such even while they own a vibrator or read romance novels. No, we should all find someone with whom we are compatible.


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## lenzi

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Porn is just eye candy and fantasy. Its having a candy bar once in awhile.


You meant to write that it's like _looking_ at a candy bar once in a while.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Nah, just swapping sight for taste. Keeping with sight it would be like living in the city and driving out to the country to look at the stars. Doesn't mean you don't like living in the city. 

I don't understand porn as a problem for most men... the problem is neglect, if a guy watches porn instead of pursuing sex. Porn, imo, is for relatively rare times you don't feel like sex, or your partner is unavailable. It should never be a replacement, and for most guys, its not.


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## Created2Write

I would never even consider being with a guy who watched porn. If he doesn't "feel" like having sex, why on earth would he "feel" like pursuing porn instead? And if I'm not available, then why not wait and let the anticipation for sex with me build up? Selfishness is why, imo. And I won't be with a selfish guy. 

That said, I don't think romance novels and erotica are any different than porn, and I don't read them. I think women who read romance novels and erotica, while giving their guys a hard time about porn, are highly hypocritical. I don't want thoughts of some fake, completely unrealistic guy in my head while making love to my husband. I want sex between us to be _just_ between us.


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## Blondilocks

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I can't wrap my brain around why a naked body is so offensive to some people. What's next? Not allowing your partner to go to the beach because swimsuits are too skimpy?
> 
> *Who said anything about naked bodies being offensive?*
> 
> People have the right to do whatever they want to do, regardless of who can wrap their brain around such rights.
> 
> *No, they don't (and, I might add, that statement is laughable).*
> 
> No one has the right to control someone. You have the right to choose someone who's ideology matches your own... and that's all.
> 
> *I agree.*
> 
> If women aren't less visual than men, why do you think that women in general watch far less porn than men?


*My belief is that women are far too busy to concentrate on their genitals 24/7.*


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## DvlsAdvc8

I explained several reasons:

1) Many women do nothing to turn a guy on. He's just expected to suddenly lust for her randomly. Porn serves to turn him on when he wants to be turned on... not when she wants to him on.

2) Many men don't care to go through all of the fuss for sex when they just want a lazy orgasm. Myself, I don't even want a bj on those occasions. I'm not about to pursue a bj on the premise that I'm feeling lazy and want a quick orgasm. I don't pursue a bj without intending to reciprocate. If my intent is to masturbate, then what I do to turn me on is my business. And again, its not at the expense of having sex. If letting anticipation build up is your issue, then your issue isn't with porn but with masturbation period - of course, we both know that's not true. You've said before your problem isn't with mb, but with the imagery of the other women.

3) Lastly, most people are somewhat voyeuristic. I like looking at naked bodies and get turned on by seeing other people have sex. Voyeurism ftw.

Doing what you want with your sexuality isn't selfish. Demanding someone else conform to your notion of sexuality is selfish. You're going to define someone else's turn on's for them or how they should express their sexuality? No. You choose who you're compatible with, just as I choose who I'm compatible with. So gtfo with the shaming "selfishness" garbage.

I totally understand your position: I would never be in a relationship with a woman who was uptight about porn or felt in any way slighted by my seeing another naked body. My gf and I have plans to go to New Orleans for Mardis Gras this year... I'll be flashed by dozens of t*ts, she'll probably flash hers too... we'll be in male strip clubs and female strip clubs. Hell, we've been to a local strip club and bought each other lap dances (yeah, female stripper for her too) lol. If you think porn is bad, I can't imagine how uptight you'd be about all that.

Different strokes for different folks... that's why people like you and I would never date.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Blondilocks said:


> Who said anything about naked bodies being offensive?


Uh... the issue is porn. What are you offended by, the poor scripts? lol



Blondilocks said:


> People have the right to do whatever they want to do, regardless of who can wrap their brain around such rights.
> 
> No, they don't (and, I might add, that statement is laughable).


Uh, yes, they do. What are you going to do if you don't like what someone does? Not a damn thing but leave. They have a right to do as they please. See me not dating you? See you not dating me? Amazing how that works huh? I won't date an incompatible woman.

Again, no one has the right to control someone. You have the right to choose someone who's ideology matches your own... and that's all.



Blondilocks said:


> "If women aren't less visual than men, why do you think that women in general watch far less porn than men?"
> 
> My belief is that women are far too busy to concentrate on their genitals 24/7.


That's your right. Have fun.


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## Created2Write

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I explained several reasons:
> 
> 1) Many women do nothing to turn a guy on. He's just expected to suddenly lust for her randomly. Porn serves to turn him on when he wants to be turned on... not when she wants to him on.


You're right, there are women who don't do anything to turn a guy on. In such a case, I'd encourage him to find a woman who will actively participate in sex. 

"When he wants to be turned on"...as I thought: selfish. Or, at the very least, self-centered.

Again, our divide here is that you see sex on an individualistic level. I see it on a mutual level. For me, it's sacred. What I do to my body, what I fantasize about, _will_ effect my husband in my some way. 



> 2) Many men don't care to go through all of the fuss for sex when they just want a lazy orgasm.


Like I said, selfish. At least it sounds that way to me.



> Myself, I don't even want a bj on those occasions. I'm not about to pursue a bj on the premise that I'm feeling lazy and want a quick orgasm. I don't pursue a bj without intending to reciprocate.


It's good that you want to give sexual satisfaction once you've gotten it. 



> If my intent is to masturbate, then what I do to turn me on is my business. And again, its not at the expense of having sex. If letting anticipation build up is your issue, then you're issue isn't with porn but with masturbation period - of course, we both know that's not true. You've said before your problem isn't with mb, but with the imagery of the other women.


Why masturbate to someone other than the person you claim to love? If their body isn't enough to satisfy you, even when masturbating, you're not with the right person, imo. I love my husband's body. I don't want to fantasize about anyone other than him because he is the epitome of amazing sex for me. I want a man who will feel the same way about me. 

It's not the imagery of other women. Sexualized images of women are everywhere. For me, it's exclusivity. 



> 3) Lastly, most people are somewhat voyeuristic. I like looking at naked bodies and get turned on by seeing other people have sex. Voyeurism ftw.


I like looking at my husband's naked body and getting turned on. Other people having sex _is not_ something I want to watch, nor is it something I want the man I'm with watching. I want to be special to him. How can I truly be special if he's seeing other women's naked bodies? He might as well be having sex with other women. 



> Doing what you want with your sexuality isn't selfish.


It absolutely can be when what you do with your sexuality effects the person you're in a committed relationship with. 



> Demanding someone else conform to your notion of sexuality is selfish. You're going to define someone else's turn on's for them or how they should express their sexuality? No. You choose who you're compatible with, just as I choose who I'm compatible with. So gtfo with the shaming "selfishness" garbage.


What you choose to do in your relationships is your choice. But I do find it shameful, demeaning and counterproductive to building healthy sexual relationships. You can be as defensive as you want. It won't change a thing. 



> I totally understand your position: I would never be in a relationship with a woman who was uptight about porn or felt in any way slighted by my seeing another naked body. My gf and I have plans to go to New Orleans for Mardis Gras this year... I'll be flashed by dozens of t*ts, she'll probably flash hers too... we'll be in male strip clubs and female strip clubs. Hell, we've been to a local strip club and bought each other lap dances (yeah, female stripper for her too) lol. If you think porn is bad, I can't imagine how uptight you'd be about all that.


_I_ strip for my husband. No need for him to go to another woman for that. I give him lapdances. Likewise, he would never wanting me flashing my boobs all over the place. They're meant for him and him alone, and we like it that way.


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## Created2Write

In my opinion, porn is a way for men and women to get as close to infidelity as possible, without actually crossing the line.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Created2Write said:


> Like I said, selfish.


Definitions my dear. Lazy does not mean selfish. The primary motivator in masturbation is not selfishness when one could have sex. Good for me either way. The primary motivation to masturbate when sex is available is laziness... and once in awhile, I just want to be lazy and voyeuristic. So what?



Created2Write said:


> Why masturbate to someone other than the person you claim to love? If their body isn't enough to satisfy you, even when masturbating, you're not with the right person, imo. I love my husband's body. I don't want to fantasize about anyone other than him because he is the epitome of amazing sex for me. I want a man who will feel the same way about me.


Its not about anyone's body or being satisfied. I like watching people have sex... most people do. You and some women have this idea that porn is sought because the woman isn't enough but no... they're totally different things. I fantasize in a fraction of a second. Hot woman in a skirt bends over in front of me... BOOM, instantly imagine seeing under that skirt. That means I don't like my girl's body or think she's the perfect girl for me? No. Some things NOT-your-spouse will attract you. Some things not-your-spouse will even turn you on... but again, so what?



Created2Write said:


> It's not the imagery of other women. Sexualized images of women are everywhere. For me, it's exclusivity.


Exclusivity? His masturbating violates exclusivity? What if he's *thinking* about all that sexualized imagery he saw everywhere? You don't know... you can't control it... why worry about it? The truth is, it doesn't matter what he's thinking about whether a victorias secret commercial, some girl he saw 20 minutes ago, or some actors getting busy. It doesn't really matter and none of it is a statement about you.



Created2Write said:


> How can I truly be special if he's seeing other women's naked bodies?


Its not one's body that makes a person special. You're special because you're you, and a set of t*ts on a video doesn't change that. There is in fact, no comparison.



Created2Write said:


> It absolutely can be when what you do with your sexuality effects the person you're in a committed relationship with.


No, that just says you're in the wrong relationship.



Created2Write said:


> You can be as defensive as you want.


I'm not defensive. I'm not ashamed. I watch porn. My girl watches porn. What annoys me is that your judging and attempt to shame me for what WE are entirely comfortable with.



Created2Write said:


> _I_ strip for my husband. No need for him to go to another woman for that. I give him lapdances. Likewise, he would never wanting me flashing my boobs all over the place. They're meant for him and him alone, and we like it that way.


That's your right. Us, we're quite a bit more exhibitionist and loose. She strips for me. There's no "need" to go to another woman to give me a lap dance. The point is that she's not uptight about it. Our boundary is each other's presence and sex isn't this holy thing to us as it is to you. Hell, she's expressed interest in an FFM threesome if the right girl came along (she's bi). Not sure what the rules for me would be there yet, but sexuality is just something we don't get caught up in knots about. We're human... naked bodies are a turn on. Woop.



Created2Write said:


> You've changed your tune.


Yep. I learned more. It's all good.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Created2Write said:


> In my opinion, porn is a way for men and women to get as close to infidelity as possible, without actually crossing the line.


Infidelity is defined by each couple. Its not some standard thing.


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## Blondilocks

"It's not the imagery of other women. Sexualized images of women are everywhere. For me, it's exclusivity."

Exactly. Our marriage vows included the phrase "forsake all others". To me, that included physical and mental. If one desires to have an endless supply of visual stimulation, why get married? 

All couples navigate what is acceptable i.e. shaking your tatas or cojones at total strangers. It is your right - just don't do it in my town or you'll be arrested.

As far as voyeurism - maybe that's why women don't view porn as much as men - we're not as voyeuristic? Personally, I've never had the desire to peek into my neighbor's bedroom window - what they do is none of my business.


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## TiggyBlue

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Infidelity is defined by each couple. Its not some standard thing.


:iagree:
For some sex with others is/isn't cheating, others strip clubs is/isn't cheating and the same goes for porn.
No need to try to shame either people who are for or against porn, there is no wrong or right side.


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## DvlsAdvc8

No need for us to keep going on this. My point was just that, to most men, porn is not what some women think it is. Regardless if its some major issue for you, you should find someone you're compatible with.

Myself, if I arrive at my gfs place tonight and catch her watching porn... that's nothing but a good thing for me. 

And honestly, as long as I'm sexually satisfied, I don't really care how often she masturbates or what she watches when she does.


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## Created2Write

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Definitions my dear. Lazy does not mean selfish. The primary motivator in masturbation is not selfishness when one could have sex. Good for me either way. The primary motivation to masturbate when sex is available is laziness... and once in awhile, I just want to be lazy and voyeuristic. So what?


Maybe I just can't relate. I don't want a lazy orgasm. Ever. I rarely masturbate because orgasming by myself just can't compare to the orgasms my husband gives to me. 



> Its not about anyone's body or being satisfied. I like watching people have sex... most people do. You and some women have this idea that porn is sought because the woman isn't enough but no... they're totally different things. I fantasize in a fraction of a second. Hot woman in a skirt bends over in front of me... BOOM, instantly imagine seeing under that skirt. That means I don't like my girl's body or think she's the perfect girl for me? No. Some things NOT-your-spouse will attract you. Some things not-your-spouse will even turn you on... but again, so what?


It's not that a trait another woman has might turn him on, it's him intentionally pursuing another woman to turn him on. That, to me, is akin to wandering outside of our marriage; looking for sexual fulfillment outside of out marriage. If other couples don't agree with me, that's their business. I know my opinion isn't particularly popular. But I won't ever agree that porn is anything other than an excuse to break commitments. 



> Exclusivity? His masturbating violates exclusivity?


Nope. Not that masturbation itself. 



> What if he's *thinking* about all that sexualized imagery he saw everywhere? You don't know... you can't control it... why worry about it?


Because it's important to me. I don't fantasize about other men, I don't think about the hot men I see; I expect the same from him. Luckily, we're in agreement about this. We can appreciate the attractiveness of someone(like a movie star), without using their image later in a fantasy. Our fantasies are reserved for each other, and no one else. 



> The truth is, it doesn't matter what he's thinking about whether a victorias secret commercial, some girl he saw 20 minutes ago, or some actors getting busy. It doesn't really matter and none of it is a statement about you.


It absolutely matters. It matters to _me_. And it matters to him. 



> Its not one's body that makes a person special. You're special because you're you, and a set of t*ts on a video doesn't change that. There is in fact, no comparison.


I agree that ones body isn't what makes someone special. That's not at all what I'm saying. There are plenty of women in this world who have better bodies than I do. They're taller than I, more athletic; I don't feel any need to compete or compare myself to them. But if my husband were to intentionally seek out another woman's naked body, it absolutely would communicate to me that, in that moment, he preferred her body to mine. Otherwise, why not just admire my naked body? 



> No, that just says you're in the wrong relationship.


Really? So you don't think one has any responsibility regarding their sexuality when in a committed relationship?



> I'm not defensive. I'm not ashamed. I watch porn. My girl watches porn. What annoys me is that your judging and attempt to shame me for what WE are entirely comfortable with.


If you and your girl are comfortable with those boundaries, then you are on the same page. But I still find porn disgusting, regardless of whether a couple agrees to watching or not. 



> That's your right. Us, we're quite a bit more exhibitionist and loose. She strips for me. There's no "need" to go to another woman to give me a lap dance. The point is that she's not uptight about it. Our boundary is each other's presence and sex isn't this holy thing to us as it is to you. Hell, she's expressed interest in an FFM threesome if the right girl came along (she's bi). Not sure what the rules for me would be there yet, but sexuality is just something we don't get caught up in knots about. We're human... naked bodies are a turn on. Woop.


I'm glad it works for you. I'm happy with my relationship. You see it as uptight, I see it as an amazingly special bond. He knows that no other man ever has, or ever will, have my body or occupy my thoughts. My fantasies are of him and him alone, just as his are of me. I feel like the most beautiful, amazing, and desirable woman in the world, and he feels like the most amazing, lucky man in the world. It's like an obsession, really. Where we're so enthralled with each other, nothing else matters. 

I'd rather live a celibate life than be with a man who watched porn.


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## Created2Write

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Infidelity is defined by each couple. Its not some standard thing.


My husband and I view porn as a means of getting as close to infidelity as possible without completely crossing the line. Whether others agree with us or not doesn't change how we see it.


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## lenzi

Created2Write said:


> Because it's important to me. I don't fantasize about other men, I don't think about the hot men I see; I expect the same from him. Luckily, we're in agreement about this.


I'm sure he's in agreement with you that neither one of you think about the hot men you see. That's how he gets out of it without actually lying to you. "Right honey, you don't think about hot guys and I don't either". 

If he's a guy, he's thinking about other women.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Created2Write said:


> Maybe I just can't relate. I don't want a lazy orgasm. Ever.


That's cool... but you can't judge what other people want.

Arguing orgasm quality is like arguing which is better pistol, a 9mm or .45 caliber. Since you're a gun chick, I'm sure you'll get it. You must be a .45 fan. I have both.



Created2Write said:


> It's not that a trait another woman has might turn him on, it's him intentionally pursuing another woman to turn him on. That, to me, is akin to wandering outside of our marriage.


This is your thing and I respect that. The following questions are for my own curiousity.

Why does it matter to you whether his arousal is intentional or not? If you go to see a movie with a sex scene, and he gets aroused by what he sees, that's not wandering. But if he chose the movie because it has that hot actress in it... then he's wandering?

You don't see anything vague and thought police-ish about this? Do you feel that your husbands very thoughts belong to you? IE - if he has sexual thoughts about another female body, he's cheating on you?



Created2Write said:


> Nope. Not that masturbation itself.


Show me a guy who says he doesn't have imagery of women flashing through his mind during masturbation, and I'll show you a liar - that's my take on it. That moment earlier in the day when we could see up that hot woman's skirt at the sandwich shop... yeah... that imagery WILL pop into our heads during masturbation even if we're not deliberately focusing on it.



Created2Write said:


> Because it's important to me. I don't fantasize about other men, I don't think about the hot men I see; I expect the same from him. Luckily, we're in agreement about this. We can appreciate the attractiveness of someone(like a movie star), without using their image later in a fantasy. Our fantasies are reserved for each other, and no one else.


I personally wouldn't believe any guy who says this, but if you think your husband is able/willing to block out all that imagery... that's all that matters.



Created2Write said:


> It absolutely matters. It matters to _me_. And it matters to him.


Its great that you have consensus. I would be totally creeped out by a girl who wanted to declare what I was permitted to think about. That's what I mean by the necessity to choose someone sexually compatible. If someone is threatened or insecure about my thoughts, I think they have a problem. I wouldn't keep seeing them. Thoughts are just thoughts.



Created2Write said:


> But if my husband were to intentionally seek out another woman's naked body, it absolutely would communicate to me that, in that moment, he preferred her body to mine. Otherwise, why not just admire my naked body?


Firstly, what does it matter even if he did prefer someone else's body to yours? Its not even a stretch of the imagination is it? There are tons of men out there that have hotter bodies than me. I fully expect that a woman is likely to prefer one of those bodies to mine. She's with me for a reason... and its not because I have the hottest male body. I don't really see why this matters. By saying their are women with hotter bodies, you yourself are saying you prefer those other women's bodies to yours. See what I'm saying? But he chose to be with YOU... and no one else is YOU.

Secondly, in looking at another woman's body, its not even that she has a *better* body. It is simply a different body... and she might not even be arousing if not for the voyeuristic element of it. Hell, most of the porn actresses I've seen don't look at hot as my gf. Its not a matter of dissatisfaction. Its not even all about the actress. Its a matter of being aroused by watching people have sex and engage in fantasy behavior. If I watch an orgy doesn't mean I want to be in a real life orgy. If I watch BDSM humiliation it doesn't mean I want that in real life. If it were just about being aroused by female bodies men would all be watching softcore porn rather than it being a small genre. I'm convinced that its mostly voyeurism. Myself, I'm totally indifferent to lesbian porn for example. I want to see intercourse.



Created2Write said:


> Really? So you don't think one has any responsibility regarding their sexuality when in a committed relationship?


You have responsibility to choose someone with compatible beliefs, not coerce them into your beliefs. If you've done so, no, you have no responsibility regarding your sexuality. You are being yourself, not trying to be what someone else wants you to be.



Created2Write said:


> If you and your girl are comfortable with those boundaries, then you are on the same page. But I still find porn disgusting, regardless of whether a couple agrees to watching or not.


Wait... I thought you make home sex videos? That's porn too. So no, you don't think porn is disgusting at all. Rather, for you porn is a jealousy issue... and that's perfectly fine.



Created2Write said:


> He knows that no other man ever has, or ever will, have my body or occupy my thoughts.


Why put any value in the fact that no other man has had you? Do you think less of your husband because he's slept with other women before you? Does that make your bond with him any less special?



Created2Write said:


> I'd rather live a celibate life than be with a man who watched porn.


I'd rather masturbate my entire life than be with a woman insecure enough to want to police what I can think and look at. There's nothing more unattractive to me honestly. That's why you and I would be completely incompatible sexually. When my gf bought me a lapdance, she laughed her @ss off. It was a little crazy, a little unnerving, awesomely liberating and totally hilarious. She didn't even remotely think the stripper was a threat. It didn't make her feel insecure and undervalued. She knows she's a beast and she knows that I'm crazy about her. She wanted to watch me squirm a little. Later that night, all hot and bothered from all that pent up sexual behavior (and then some), we got naked in the living room at my place and she gave me a real lap dance. That one was much better.

What dials up sexuality for us, might not for others. To each their own. It is important to find a sexually compatible person with like boundaries.


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