# 33 years down the drain



## Fifi67

Hi, I have been with my husband 33 years - married for 30 of them. We have 2 grown up children living at home (30 and 22) and a 3 year old granddaughter also living at home (i am her full- time carer ehile my son is at work) I am 51, my husband is 55. 
For 33 years I have been totally faithful, I have stood by my husband through affairs (mostly online), unemployment, PTSD, alcohol and drug issues. I myself suffer severe depression and anxiety. I lost my mum when i was 10 and my dad 9 years ago. 
I think I have abandonment issues and that is why i had put up with my husbands **** for so long, i cling onto things that make me feel safe. Due to his previous cheating and my depression and meds we havent had sex in 7 years. I understand his need to be fulfilled sexually but i just cannot provide that at the moment.
Last week i found a profile of his on a swingers forum, with some **** pics and laying bare all the things he wants to do etc. The profile was made a year ago but he still had notifications for it (that's how i found it - yeah i 'snooped' (as he put it)). I challenged him about the profile and he was (obv) defensive, then said he wanted to have an open relationship so he can have sex with people as i cant give it to him and he NEEDS sex. So i asked him if his **** meant more to him than his family and home. I guess the answer was yes as he has left. 
I dont know if I'm angry or sad or relieved or what. Looking after a 3 year old means i have barely had the time to think it through. 
He is not the person i thought i knew, i am repulsed at what i saw, but i am a realist and as he said - most men would have left years ago. 
He says i am still his best friend and wants to maintain that just not be together and he doesnt want a divorce. So he gets to move out, have peace and quiet, shag around, do whatever, come back to his home when he wants. 
He told my daughter earlier that he feels 'chilled' because he's not bull****ting himself anymore.
I am totally crushed, I need advice on where i go from here 😞
Sorry for the long post


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## Bananapeel

Tell him no. No friend gets to treat you that way and still maintain the relationship.


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## Lila

What do you want to happen @Fifi67? You have several choices. You can 

a) remain married with the understanding that you both work through your issues so that you can have a mutually satisfying relationship. This would require you work to meet his needs (sexual) just as he would need to work to make you feel safe in the relationship.

b) accept his proposition of an open marriage

c) divorce. Split your assets and debts and you each move on living the kind of life you want independently. 

I would not recommend b and if you choose c, then you cut all ties. There's no such thing as a ex-wife BFF.


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## Fifi67

Im not able (psychologically and physically) to meet his sexual demands. We went through this 2 years ago when he cheated, but to me the trust is broken and i cant have sex (even if i wanted to) with someone who has betrayed me. 
I couldn't deal with an open relationship and i told him this.
I know in my heart of hearts that we will never get back together, but part of me is so angry that he wants to have his cake and still have me around for support.
I have always been there for him no matter what so i want to be unavailable to him now, but it makes me feel petty. 
He knows that because of my depression etc that i am practically housebound too. So he's pretty much assured I'm not going to be off with another man.
Am i being a mug wanting this to be amicable? Its almost like im trying to make it less painful for him? I dont understand myself.


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## farsidejunky

Read the book Codependent No More. 

It will likely be enlightening. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## sunsetmist

Fifi67 said:


> Hi, I have been with my husband 33 years - married for 30 of them. We have 2 grown up children living at home (30 and 22) and a 3 year old granddaughter also living at home (i am her full- time carer ehile my son is at work) I am 51, my husband is 55.
> For 33 years I have been totally faithful, I have stood by my husband through affairs (mostly online), unemployment, PTSD, alcohol and drug issues. I myself suffer severe depression and anxiety. I lost my mum when i was 10 and my dad 9 years ago.
> I think I have abandonment issues and that is why i had put up with my husbands **** for so long, i cling onto things that make me feel safe. Due to his previous cheating and my depression and meds we havent had sex in 7 years. I understand his need to be fulfilled sexually but i just cannot provide that at the moment.
> Last week i found a profile of his on a swingers forum, with some **** pics and laying bare all the things he wants to do etc. The profile was made a year ago but he still had notifications for it (that's how i found it - yeah i 'snooped' (as he put it)). I challenged him about the profile and he was (obv) defensive, then said he wanted to have an open relationship so he can have sex with people as i cant give it to him and he NEEDS sex. So i asked him if his **** meant more to him than his family and home. I guess the answer was yes as he has left.
> I dont know if I'm angry or sad or relieved or what. Looking after a 3 year old means i have barely had the time to think it through.
> He is not the person i thought i knew, i am repulsed at what i saw, but i am a realist and as he said - most men would have left years ago.
> He says i am still his best friend and wants to maintain that just not be together and he doesnt want a divorce. So he gets to move out, have peace and quiet, shag around, do whatever, come back to his home when he wants.
> He told my daughter earlier that he feels 'chilled' because he's not bull****ting himself anymore.
> I am totally crushed, I need advice on where i go from here 😞
> Sorry for the long post


Sounds to me like he has been living in an open relationship for some time--swinging even--beware of STDs. He is NOT your friend, so why would you want to be his best friend? No one wants a sexual relationship with a cheater. Talk to a lawyer and find out what your rights are in your state. Talk to your adult children--it is time for them to help you, not expect you to take care of them and their child. You have good years of your life left--better years if you take action and take care of yourself.


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## BluesPower

Fifi67 said:


> Hi, I have been with my husband 33 years - married for 30 of them. We have 2 grown up children living at home (30 and 22) and a 3 year old granddaughter also living at home (i am her full- time carer ehile my son is at work) I am 51, my husband is 55.
> For 33 years I have been totally faithful, I have stood by my husband through affairs (mostly online), unemployment, PTSD, alcohol and drug issues. I myself suffer severe depression and anxiety. I lost my mum when i was 10 and my dad 9 years ago.
> I think I have abandonment issues and that is why i had put up with my husbands **** for so long, i cling onto things that make me feel safe. Due to his previous cheating and my depression and meds we havent had sex in 7 years. I understand his need to be fulfilled sexually but i just cannot provide that at the moment.
> Last week i found a profile of his on a swingers forum, with some **** pics and laying bare all the things he wants to do etc. The profile was made a year ago but he still had notifications for it (that's how i found it - yeah i 'snooped' (as he put it)). I challenged him about the profile and he was (obv) defensive, then said he wanted to have an open relationship so he can have sex with people as i cant give it to him and he NEEDS sex. So i asked him if his **** meant more to him than his family and home. I guess the answer was yes as he has left.
> I dont know if I'm angry or sad or relieved or what. Looking after a 3 year old means i have barely had the time to think it through.
> He is not the person i thought i knew, i am repulsed at what i saw, but i am a realist and as he said - most men would have left years ago.
> He says i am still his best friend and wants to maintain that just not be together and he doesnt want a divorce. So he gets to move out, have peace and quiet, shag around, do whatever, come back to his home when he wants.
> He told my daughter earlier that he feels 'chilled' because he's not bull****ting himself anymore.
> I am totally crushed, I need advice on where i go from here 😞
> Sorry for the long post


Dear I am sorry, but do you really think that you can deprive a healthy male of sex for 7 years and he is not going to get it somewhere else?

Do you really think that? I am so sorry for the things that you are going through, I really am. 

But honestly you should be happy that he stayed as long as he did. 

If you need therapy in order to deal with your issues, I really hope that you can deal with them. 

I do not excuse his cheating, but it is kind of obvious that you have and continue to have issues with sex or maybe it was just your husband. 

But whichever, you need to deal with what is happening and try to be strong for your grand child. 

It is time to start a new life, without him...


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## sokillme

> I have stood by my husband through affairs (mostly online), unemployment, PTSD, alcohol and drug issues.


Did this happen before you marriage became sexless or after? Either way this was probably the sign that the marriage was over. If it was before I wish you would have sought help before this happened, I also wish you husband was honorable enough to end the marriage before he cheated.

If this contributed to the sexlessness then I don't blame you. You didn't feel safe after that. At the end of the day maybe it's better for you either way. I think you need to morn and heal but know your life is NOT over you can get over this and you will. You can still have a great life. 

I would suggest if you are going to try to find love again you work on whatever it is that prevents you from wanting to have sex as most healthy men are not going to want to be in that kind of marriage. 

I'm sorry that you are suffering just don't assume that this man is your only path to happiness. That's a lie. You can and will be happy again without him.


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## Handy

*BluesPower 
Dear I am sorry, but do you really think that you can deprive a healthy male of sex for 7 years and he is not going to get it somewhere else? *

Your h should have never cheated and should have gotten counseling about his previous affair and other personal issues. Maybe you should have divorced years ago.

I am with BluesPower on this one.


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## Rob_1

I don't understand women that for many YEARS don't have sex with their partner and expect the man to be by their side content as a fed dog.

Healthy in their prime men with a least a normal sexual appetite will not go without sex. Either you provide or they'll get it somewhere else. It's just nature, everything else is irrelevant.


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## Fifi67

I agree we should have split up years ago but we didnt. I never expected him to be happy without sex. He assured me he could live with it while i was getting help for my mental health and physical problems. Like an idiot i believed him- i thought i knew him. The sex issues happened AFTER online affairs that occurred while he was experiencing PTSD and I understood his head wasnt in the right place.
Also I don't believe sex is a 'right' that men can have whenever they want. It takes two people and mutual respect etc - he never respected me and his actions made me lose respect for him. I didnt seek another man to fill the emotional void that he wasnt providing for me because i was married to him and stuck by him.
I dont expect anyone else to understand, i got help for my mental health problems but it was focussed on not committing suicide rather than getting over past abuses and jumping his bones to make him happy.
If he didnt want to stay he should have left years ago rather than lie to me. 
I am in a calmer place today and accept that it's over - however, him coming round and wanting to be 'friends' is not something i can deal with atm.
I dont even make sense to myself right now- ive rambled too long


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## MattMatt

Fifi67 said:


> Hi, I have been with my husband 33 years - married for 30 of them. We have 2 grown up children living at home (30 and 22) and a 3 year old granddaughter also living at home (i am her full- time carer ehile my son is at work) I am 51, my husband is 55.
> For 33 years I have been totally faithful, I have stood by my husband through affairs (mostly online), unemployment, PTSD, alcohol and drug issues. I myself suffer severe depression and anxiety. I lost my mum when i was 10 and my dad 9 years ago.
> I think I have abandonment issues and that is why i had put up with my husbands **** for so long, i cling onto things that make me feel safe. Due to his previous cheating and my depression and meds we havent had sex in 7 years. I understand his need to be fulfilled sexually but i just cannot provide that at the moment.
> Last week i found a profile of his on a swingers forum, with some **** pics and laying bare all the things he wants to do etc. The profile was made a year ago but he still had notifications for it (that's how i found it - yeah i 'snooped' (as he put it)). I challenged him about the profile and he was (obv) defensive, then said he wanted to have an open relationship so he can have sex with people as i cant give it to him and he NEEDS sex. So i asked him if his **** meant more to him than his family and home. I guess the answer was yes as he has left.
> I dont know if I'm angry or sad or relieved or what. Looking after a 3 year old means i have barely had the time to think it through.
> He is not the person i thought i knew, i am repulsed at what i saw, but i am a realist and as he said - most men would have left years ago.
> He says i am still his best friend and wants to maintain that just not be together and he doesnt want a divorce. So he gets to move out, have peace and quiet, shag around, do whatever, come back to his home when he wants.
> He told my daughter earlier that he feels 'chilled' because he's not bull****ting himself anymore.
> I am totally crushed, I need advice on where i go from here 😞
> Sorry for the long post


Most men would have left years ago. Yeah, right! Although as your husband isn't really a man, how would *he* know about that?


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## MattMatt

Rob_1 said:


> I don't understand women that for many YEARS don't have sex with their partner and expect the man to be by their side content as a fed dog.
> 
> Healthy in their prime men with a least a normal sexual appetite will not go without sex. Either you provide or they'll get it somewhere else. It's just nature, everything else is irrelevant.


Did you miss the part where he broke her heart by cheating on her, plus the other stuff?


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## personofinterest

MattMatt said:


> Rob_1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand women that for many YEARS don't have sex with their partner and expect the man to be by their side content as a fed dog.
> 
> Healthy in their prime men with a least a normal sexual appetite will not go without sex. Either you provide or they'll get it somewhere else. It's just nature, everything else is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss the part where he broke her heart by cheating on her, plus the other stuff?
Click to expand...

I doubt he missed it. This is par for the course. Women are always the villian.


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## oldshirt

Fifi67 said:


> I am in a calmer place today and accept that it's over - however, him coming round and wanting to be 'friends' is not something i can deal with atm.


That is fair. It helps if you two can be cooperative and compassionate towards each other. But there is nothing that says you have to be 'friends' or that you have to accept him coming into your home whenever he feels like it. 

It's OK to seek divorce for your own peace of mind and disengage yourself from him in your life. 

The only reason he isn't divorcing you is because a divorce would cost him some money and would likely cause him to lose a good chunk of his 401k and probably have to pay you spousal support. 

If he is actually able to get sex on the side with others and he doesn't have to divorce you then he won't. 

But do be advised that the moment he falls for someone else and that person wants him to herself and insists that he divorce, he will be in his lawyers office that day and will file as soon as the papers are ready. 

You would be wise to start seeking legal and financial advise ASAP. This whole "friends" thing is not going to last long. 

You will need to protect yourself and your rights to your fair share of the marital assets and property. You are on borrowed time here.


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## MattMatt

personofinterest said:


> I doubt he missed it. This is par for the course. Women are always the villian.


Thankfully not with most men.


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## oldshirt

MattMatt said:


> Did you miss the part where he broke her heart by cheating on her, plus the other stuff?


She had the right to dump him after he cheated. (Still does)

She had the right to dump him and she also had the right to seek effective means of reconciliation and continue the marriage in a healthy and functional way for both of them. 

She chose to remain married even though he cheated even though the marriage was clearly not working for either one of them. 

He could have left as well. 

There is no winner here and there is no Good Guy in this. It is sad all the way around. 

But yes, at the end of the day it is unrealistic to expect any healthy person to simply exist in a loveless and sexless marriage. 

Most men, including myself, would have left many years ago and I assume most women would have also left many years ago as well if their husband had completely rejected them indefinitely. 

At this point there is no benefit of pointing fingers either way as long as this completely dysfunctional situation ends and each person can move forward and find health and contentment in their own life. 

I don't want to think of this as 33 years down the drain for the OP but rather a new beginning and no opportunity for her to regain her health and happiness going forward.


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## Rob_1

No. I didn't miss it at all.

My point was not about, blame, withholding sex, or previous grievances. It's about me not understanding why women act so surprise and hurt that their partner was all along getting it somewhere else.

That's what most men do when they do not get it at home. REGARDLESS of the reasons why.


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## Adelais

Fifi67,

You asked where you go from here. Make an appointment with a lawyer and learn your rights. That will help clear your head a bit and take away a bit of fear. You don't have to divorce him just because you talked with a lawyer.

Rest assured, however that since he is shopping around for women to have sex, he will eventually decide to divorce you to marry one of them.

You really need to know your rights and start getting your ducks in a row, so you aren't blind sided and totally taken advantage of.

It is time that you stop being a faithful victim, and start taking action for your own future.


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## Wolfman1968

Fifi67 said:


> I agree we should have split up years ago but we didnt. I never expected him to be happy without sex.


If you didn't expect that he would be happy, then what did you foresee to be the eventual course of your marriage? I'm not really understanding what you thought would happen.


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## Lila

Rob_1 said:


> No. I didn't miss it at all.
> 
> My point was not about, blame, withholding sex, or previous grievances. It's about me not understanding why women act so surprise and hurt that their partner was all along getting it somewhere else.
> 
> That's what most *spineless, dishonorable, piece of ***** men do when they do not get it at home. REGARDLESS of the reasons why.


There, I fixed it for you. 

I know many wonderful men who would never cheat regardless the reason.


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## Not

Lila said:


> There, I fixed it for you.
> 
> I know many wonderful men who would never cheat regardless the reason.



Yep, my marriage was sexless for 7 years before we split and xH was a gigantic jerk but still, even he didn’t cheat. Makes me wonder if cheaters are just simply wired to cheat.


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## Rob_1

You females are living in a world of fantasy. You can idolized human nature, but it is what it is.
Go ahead keep dreaming.


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## MattMatt

Rob_1 said:


> You females are living in a world of fantasy. You can idolized human nature, but it is what it is.
> Go ahead keep dreaming.


Yeah. And make him a sammich.


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## Lila

Rob_1 said:


> You females are living in a world of fantasy. You can idolized human nature, but it is what it is.
> Go ahead keep dreaming.


So what you're saying is that all men lack integrity and will choose cheating over divorce in a sexless marriage situation? Really?


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## oldshirt

Lila said:


> So what you're saying is that all men lack integrity and will choose cheating over divorce in a sexless marriage situation? Really?


I can't speak for Rob, but I don't think he or anyone else would say that all men would cheat in a sexless marriage situation. 

Some would get it elsewhere but remain in the marriage for a period of time for other reasons. 

Some would divorce without cheating. 

And many seem to just suck it up and live with it without either cheating or divorcing. 

What I think is the take-away here however is that people, men and women, are ultimately going to seek to get their needs met. And that it is unrealistic to assume they are going to follow some Cosmic Rule Book that says when your spouse stops loving and desiring you, you must have 'X' amount of conversations and discussions about it and you must have 'Y' amount of years of MC and you must give fair warning of ultimatums and you must divorce first before making any type of search in finding someone else. 

When someone stops loving and stops trying to meet the needs of their partner and the marriage becomes sexless for many months and years on end, all bets are off. The denied partner might play by the Cosmic Rule Book, but all people are human and there are no guarantees that that is exactly how it may go down. 

That may be an inconvenient truth and it may make people uncomfortable and insecure and give them a gross feeling in their gut - but it is a reality nonetheless. 

If you stop loving your partner and knowingly deny them, there are no guarantees that they are going to play by the rules. 

That may not be 'right' and they may not have a free pass or get out of jail free card. But it is unrealistic to assume that they are just going take it laying down.


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## BluesPower

Lila said:


> There, I fixed it for you.
> 
> I know many wonderful men who would never cheat regardless the reason.


You can call him a slime ball because he cheated, no problem with that. 

But the "Wonderful Men" that would never cheat no matter what the reason. Yeah, I would like to meet these men. I suspect that they are not really men, unless they had the balls to divorce first.

Now, if he was not happy in the marriage, he should have divorced, not cheated. And I will also say to OP, that while sex in marriage may not be a "right" it is certainly an expectation by most normal people. 

Do all women think that they hold the last bastion of sex on earth? Where does that attitude come from? Do they think that "allowing" their husband to have sex with them is the be all end all sex in the world? 

Whatever happened to the following concept...1) you married the person because you loved them, 2) When you love someone, male or female, you should want to have sex with them 3) to do otherwise will eventually lead to the end of the marriage...


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## aine

Go get a divorce from this excuse for a husband, (you should have done this years ago, when you caught him cheating), bar him from coming to your house and cut all contact. 

I wouldn't want to have sex with a POS who cheats on me with other women either, so no foul there. Just get rid of him, let his do what ever he wants somewhere else.
You can start a new life, get yourself new hair do, clothes, go to gym, start taking care of yourself. Without him around to destroy your self esteem, you will realise you have made the right choice. You do not need him in your life, let him go, the faster the better.
If your kids want to meet him, they do it elsewhere not in your house.


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## aine

@BluesPower

Whatever happened to the following concept...1) you married the person because you loved them, 2) When you love someone, male or female, you should want to have sex with them 3) to do otherwise will eventually lead to the end of the marriage..

Could also rewrite as:

1 Whatever happened to the following concept...1) you married the person because you loved them, 2) When you love someone, male or female, you should want to treat them with respect, spend time with them and show you care for them 3) to do otherwise will eventually lead to the end of the marriage..

You know it is not only about sex.


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## Not

aine said:


> @BluesPower
> 
> Whatever happened to the following concept...1) you married the person because you loved them, 2) When you love someone, male or female, you should want to have sex with them 3) to do otherwise will eventually lead to the end of the marriage..
> 
> Could also rewrite as:
> 
> 1 Whatever happened to the following concept...1) you married the person because you loved them, 2) When you love someone, male or female, you should want to treat them with respect, spend time with them and show you care for them 3) to do otherwise will eventually lead to the end of the marriage..
> 
> You know it is not only about sex.


Exactly right, this is not only about sex. The situations can sometimes be complex, not so black and white and OP’s situation wasn’t black and white. Neither was mine. It was never about sex, which I love, for me. There was so much more going on. The lack of sex was a side affect of much larger more important issues we were facing. 

I believe, at least for me, that it would be next to impossible to have sex with someone you don’t trust or with someone you outright dislike. I don’t believe normal healthy men would want to have sex with a spouse who they no longer like as a person either. With a dynamic like that sex is next to impossible but that doesn’t mean a magically easy solution suddenly appears, like just simply divorcing and neither does it mean that seeking sex outside of marraige becomes a right, not when the person going outside of the marriage is equally responsible for why there is no more sex in the first place.


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## BluesPower

aine said:


> @BluesPower
> 
> Whatever happened to the following concept...1) you married the person because you loved them, 2) When you love someone, male or female, you should want to have sex with them 3) to do otherwise will eventually lead to the end of the marriage..
> 
> Could also rewrite as:
> 
> 1 Whatever happened to the following concept...1) you married the person because you loved them, 2) When you love someone, male or female, you should want to treat them with respect, spend time with them and show you care for them 3) to do otherwise will eventually lead to the end of the marriage..
> 
> You know it is not only about sex.


The thing is @aine is that it is not only NOT about sex either. And tell me where I said that the other things you mentioned should not exist? I don't believe that I did. 

To me, just my opinion, your response sounds like a lot of women that think you are "Giving" sex to your husband. 

That is not the way that it works, you and your H should be "Having" sex because you are in love with each other. Maybe you don't think that way, but understand that many woman do.

Conversely, if you are in love, you should automatically treat each other with love, respect, meeting or ALL needs, spend time together, be emotionally there for each other, be kind an caring for each other, the whole gambit. ALL of these things should be happening, because you are in love. 

No one, should be there emotionally for someone because he or she expects to "Get" sex from her or him. 

It is not about giving to get. It is about love, desire, support, and yes SEX. 

You can have all the other things with your best friend, even if it is your H, but in a romantic monogamous marriage, you should only be having sex with your partner. 

Sex is not a reward for being emotionally supportive, sex SHOULD be another part of the relationship, maybe a really important part, but still a part of the whole. 

So no, it is not only about sex, but to assume that somehow sex is the special desert is foolish. Sex may in fact be the main course, or it may be just as important as the veggies, but either way SEX is as important as breathing to a marriage. To think otherwise is completely foolish...


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## aine

@BluesPower, agree with everything you said but there are also many men who put in very little effort in romancing their wives and still expect sex as their God given right. 
To be honest if my husband is busy with work, golfing etc and gives me little time or attention, then there will be less inclination on my part to have sex with him. I think many men don’t get that part of the relationship, they are ready to go from 0 to 100 sexually but their wives are not because .their needs are not met.


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## BluesPower

aine said:


> @BluesPower, agree with everything you said but there are also many men who put in very little effort in romancing their wives and still expect sex as their God given right.
> 
> To be honest if my husband is busy with work, golfing etc and gives me little time or attention, then there will be less inclination on my part to have sex with him. I think many men don’t get that part of the relationship, they are ready to go from 0 to 100 sexually but their wives are not because .their needs are not met.


I agree with this, for the most part. But lets say that H is really busy with work, he is stressed, work is rough, and he is really having a hard time. 

Now, would you feel less inclined to have want to have sex because you are really not getting the attention that you want? Or, even when you are not getting what you want at that time, would it occur to you to cuddle him at bed time and initiate sex? Maybe you were just in the mood, or maybe you wanted him to know that you love him, and you want to feel him close to you and your WANT to make love to him?

You see, this is where lots of woman fall short in relationships and sex. You needs may not be getting met this week, so do you feel slighted? OR do you make an effort to feel close to your H? 

Most would not, and this is the disconnect with, sorry, a huge percentage of women. In a situation where the man is the primary bread winner, and he still is there for his wife, supportive emotionally, and with his time, well everything is great. 

But let him get into a rut, have a bad time at work, where he may be preoccupied and not as attentive as usual, well hell a lot of women pull out the WOMEN'S card and say, "Hey bud, I don't feel close to you, I am not turned on because you are not kissing my ass every 5 minutes". 

How is that behavior not JUST AS BAD as any man who thinks he has a right to sex. 

I do not believe sex should ever be an end game, it should be part of the relationship. 

This is why I get so much grief for my thoughts about sex and relationships. Yes I am attentive with the women in my relationships, OK I spoil them, I like doing that. 

But if I EVER was with a woman that thought she was doing me a favor by "GIVING" me sex, she would be out of my life in one second flat...


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## Rob_1

@oldshirt. Thanks. That's exactly it. @Lila doesn't want to get it. She's focusing on the black and white of the situation.

Some men like myself leave before cheating. l left after 3 months of no sex and divorced. I wasn't going to go for seven years like OP's situation (lord seven years WTF).

Other men leave after years of begging. Other men they just analyze the situation and decide that they have to much to lose if they leave ( thanks your gender biased court system) because they know that if they leave they would get ****ed by the system, so they opt to stay but cheat.

Other men (the minority, but majority in these type of forums) are the KISA Martyrs that suffer in silence and take more or less the passive/agressive approach to it, while wallowing in self-pity, but no having the balls to be a man an make a decision. Instead they wither away hopping that the wife will change her mind, but the years pass, and it never happens.

This goes without saying same for women in sexless relationships.

The sad part of all of it it's that all these men/women love their partners, but eventually resentment replaces that love, and they are forced to take a decision (except for the KISA Martyrs).


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## Lila

BluesPower said:


> You can call him a slime ball because he cheated, no problem with that.
> 
> But the "Wonderful Men" that would never cheat no matter what the reason. Yeah, I would like to meet these men. *I suspect that they are not really men, unless they had the balls to divorce first.*


I never said or implied that men should continue in sexless marriages. What I did say is that men who choose to cheat ared ultimately weak of character and lack integrity. Those that choose a different path, such as divorce, are wonderful men.


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## Lila

Rob_1 said:


> @oldshirt. Thanks. That's exactly it. @Lila doesn't want to get it. She's focusing on the black and white of the situation.


No @Rob_1, I get what @BluesPower and @oldshirt are saying. Unfortunately that's not what you were saying at all. The way you presented your post made is sound like you were excusing cheating. It sounded like "all men will cheat if their wives fail to **** them on the regular". And that's simply not true. What is correct to say is "ladies, if you are married to a weak ass man who lacks integrity (and 9 out of 10 times can't communicate worth a crap), then don't be surprised if he cheats on you. 

It's a slippery slope when we start blaming the betrayed spouse and excusing the cheater. Most men see sex as the end all be all of a marriage. I could say the same of women seeing emotional connection as the end all be all. If we start putting the responsibility for a husband's affair due to lack of sex on the wife, then we need to start putting the responsibility of a wife's affair due to lack of emotional intimacy/attention on the husband.


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## aine

BluesPower said:


> I agree with this, for the most part. But lets say that H is really busy with work, he is stressed, work is rough, and he is really having a hard time.
> 
> Now, would you feel less inclined to have want to have sex because you are really not getting the attention that you want? Or, even when you are not getting what you want at that time, would it occur to you to cuddle him at bed time and initiate sex? Maybe you were just in the mood, or maybe you wanted him to know that you love him, and you want to feel him close to you and your WANT to make love to him?
> 
> Of course if he is having a rough time Ill be there to hear him out, etc Mine normally doesn't want sex if he is preoccupied with work, which is a bummer for me, read my other threads
> 
> You see, this is where lots of woman fall short in relationships and sex. You needs may not be getting met this week, so do you feel slighted? OR do you make an effort to feel close to your H?
> I also dont get why is seems to always fall on the woman to be the 'keeper' of the marriage or relationship in 90% of the time. Why should she make an effort to feel close to her husband, when he it the one who wants that closeness?
> I have learned to take care of my own emotional needs due to years of emotional neglect, so I don't really feel any need to feel close to my H. My girlfriends meet my emotional needs. He complains occasionally that I can be cold. Well it is what it is, I didn't start off that way. Though if I am honest, I get on well with my husband now more than ever, but that is partly because I do whatever pleases me, no longer putting him first in everything. I learnt from the master.
> Many woman I know in long term marriages have settled for little or no attention (neglect) due to stress, work loads, business travelling, golf, etc, though sex is still on the table. It is what it is.
> 
> But to pontificate about woman falling short all the time, is beginning to piss me off Blue because many men I know fall way way short but still expect to be treated like kings when they walk through the door. I am talking about long term marriages here, friends that I and my H know.
> 
> Most would not, and this is the disconnect with, sorry, a huge percentage of women. I could also write loads of conjecture too, cause that is all this is, unless you have lived with a huge percentage of women? In a situation where the man is the primary bread winner, and he still is there for his wife, supportive emotionally, and with his time, well everything is great. When my H was the primary bw, I bent over backwards to be everything to him, but the same practice was not reciprocated when I went to work. i still did everything at home, with kids and worked. That soon got old and I got cold, plus his working late, out with clients, etc.
> 
> But let him get into a rut, have a bad time at work, where he may be preoccupied and not as attentive as usual, well hell a lot of women pull out the WOMEN'S card and say, "Hey bud, I don't feel close to you, I am not turned on because you are not kissing my ass every 5 minutes". That's a huge assumption and a crock of BS. No woman wants a man kissing her ass every 5 minutes, come on, if he'd kiss it once every month, that would be something!
> 
> Honestly Blue, your posts annoy me no end, :smile2: Your views on women are really skewed, I don't know what lens you are looking through but it sounds like one of hurt and resentment. I know you admire the male of the species but it might be time to take of the rose colored spectacles when it comes to me. They are not blameless in these type of scenarios.
> 
> How is that behavior not JUST AS BAD as any man who thinks he has a right to sex.
> 
> I do not believe sex should ever be an end game, it should be part of the relationship.
> 
> This is why I get so much grief for my thoughts about sex and relationships. Yes I am attentive with the women in my relationships, OK I spoil them, I like doing that.
> 
> But if I EVER was with a woman that thought she was doing me a favor by "GIVING" me sex, she would be out of my life in one second flat...


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## Emerging Buddhist

Hope never makes one an idiot, it is an essential step for trusting ourselves to believe that good can come from the situation or challenge we face... but there comes a time when we understand where hope ends, and it can with mindful purpose, it is only a closing door that feeds a new option for change.

We are volunteers in our relationships... I say this because love cannot be bartered, it is either voluntarily present without coercion or it is proclaimed for selfish reasons and actions to fill voids where they exist. If you love yourself more, you will never lie, cheat, or take anything without permission from the one you are with. You cannot say "since I am married I will do/not do these things". That sounds a contract void of the strong emotions of really caring of another.

You know he is not truthful and as nice as amicable sounds, anyone who treats you with such disregard will only be threatened when control is taken from them. You are still dependent on him financially... time to make sure you are taken care of there so please seek out an attorney that can guide you though making sure you have your fair division of marital investments. Mediators cost far less, but that depends on how bound he is to wanting more than his fair share of the assets.

That said, you cannot keep him from coming around because for now it is his home too... what you can do is prepare yourself for maintaining your calm when he does.

No long discussions, no unkind engagements... keep it simple and make this promise to yourself:

On behalf of myself and all beings,
I intend to refrain from consciously hurting anyone.
I intend to refrain from overtly or covertly taking what is not mine.
I intend to be sure that my speech is kind as well as true.
I intend to refrain from addictive behaviors that confuse my mind and lead to heedlessness. 

A few phrases to remove any codependent behavior when conversation seems manipulative by the other:

*I'm sorry you feel that way. 
*I see things differently.
*I’m not okay with x (whatever "x" may be).

This is not being anything more than being kind... buffer everything with momentary kindness that provides you the inner strength to show he cannot take away the choices YOU choose and walk away without reacting to the chaos he has depended on.


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## aine

Lila said:


> So what you're saying is that all men lack integrity and will choose cheating over divorce in a sexless marriage situation? Really?


They also lack any kind of restraint and must hump something if they’re ‘not getting it,’ it seems. I did not know that men have no self- control. News to me. :grin2::grin2:


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