# when does it get better?



## spun

My wife and I have been separated for 4 months now. Along the way, the EA that spawned the separation turned into PA. 

For these four months now, I have been hoping to see some light and begin to feel better. The truth is I feel just as awful most days as when the bomb first dropped. It's hard to imagine ever feeling alive again. When does the funk begin to lift?


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## ImStillHere

Everyone operates on a different timeline. Some people take only months while others take years to get past the tough and painful moments/memories. 

What do you want from this relationship? Is it over? Are you planning to file for D? Or are you waiting out the A to try for R?


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## Dollystanford

It really depends - 4 months on and I've never felt better, it really depends on circumstances and the state of your relationship and your ability to move forward.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

I am three month in, filed last week, and have not been this happy and together in years! It is a great feeling isn't it Dolly?

The other man my stbxw is involved with is seven years on from his divorce, and still has panic attacks and takes medication for anxiety and PTSD related to his divorce.

...so yeah, what Dolly said


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## spun

ImStillHere said:


> Everyone operates on a different timeline. Some people take only months while others take years to get past the tough and painful moments/memories.
> 
> What do you want from this relationship? Is it over? Are you planning to file for D? Or are you waiting out the A to try for R?


Pretty sure its over. Moving forward with D has been discussed, but no one has filed yet. I have wanted R from the beginning--to tough out the A and see...


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## Dollystanford

samyeagar said:


> I am three month in, filed last week, and have not been this happy and together in years! It is a great feeling isn't it Dolly?
> 
> The other man my stbxw is involved with is seven years on from his divorce, and still has panic attacks and takes medication for anxiety and PTSD related to his divorce.
> 
> ...so yeah, what Dolly said


especially since my ex has suddenly decided I was actually the one he wanted 'forever' and now he's f*cked it up ha ha


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## bandit.45

Her betrayal is what threw you. File if you haven't done so. It will make you feel better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justabovewater

I've been separated for a year. Had some good weeks along the way but am now back to being depressed and have anxiety. I think this is because the realization that he'll be filing soon has set in. I don't see myself bouncing back too quickly, sadly, though I am trying.


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## Berilo

I have been separated for 10 months. At first it felt really awful, given the turmoil -- the "closeness" of heightened emotional entanglement strangely juxtaposed with the raw silence of living alone again. (Given all the drama in my particular marital screenplay, perhaps I deserved to have an appropriate moving soundtrack to listen to!  )

I felt numb, interspersed with sharp pain. And occasional outbursts of anger.

But it got better month by month (certainly not day by day or week by week -- there were some major relapses). I think my recovery has been helped by the fact that I endured such abuse from my wife during most of our marriage that its sudden absence was itself a tonic -- once I woke up.

I tried to distract myself with work (fortunately, I had a really interesting project to chew on) and also "get out there" with sympathetic friends just to do stuff with. I have discovered I have as many close friends as I thought I had, and a happy by-product of this disaster is that I am closer to a bunch of them now.

I am not fully recovered yet, but I would like to begin dating again, casually and slowly ... 

So my advice would be, hang in there, don't force anything. It's ok to feel bad, pissed off, whiplashed, but don't let it drag you down. You need to get back in touch with the positives in your life before you got married -- and maybe try something new. It's a great opportunity for the latter. (One fun thing I did was go out to the men's shop one day with two stylish co-workers who are ten years younger and get my wardrobe updated. I spent the following two weeks' entire paycheque on new duds, but it was fun, and worth it. I have never been much of a sharp dresser, but the fact that I had new, stylish clothes hanging in the wardrobe to wear to work and out was kind of a metaphor for my new independent self.)

Good luck with it spun -- and go for it!


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## UpnDown

spun said:


> My wife and I have been separated for 4 months now. Along the way, the EA that spawned the separation turned into PA.
> 
> For these four months now, I have been hoping to see some light and begin to feel better. The truth is I feel just as awful most days as when the bomb first dropped. It's hard to imagine ever feeling alive again. When does the funk begin to lift?


In her own (and may I mention SICK) sort of way, she has already 'moved on'. Unfortunately.

You are going to feel the severe ups and downs throughout all of this .. I am also 4 months in (3 legally) .. may I direct you to my thread / rant? It will be on the first page .. see my insanity in action!

The thing is, even if she does come back lets say .. in 2 months because in the end it didn't work out with the PA.

Would you take her back?

If so, why?

How would you handle the situation?

I think what we (because I'm somewhat in the same mental state as you) need to do is .. as hard as it sounds .. move on.

Because really, if we don't grow and learn from these experiences, how would we ever expect for it to work out even IF the chance of R happens?


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## our vision shattered

i'm 3 mos in & also read my threads, im in constant different emotional states, my problem is i can't stop telling her via text, 1 minute i'm begging, next i'm angry, next i'm threatening divorce. i'm pretty sure divorce is where we r going, i don't want that but cant seem to stop it. ive done this so much my w thinks i'm crazy, i'm leaving her alone starting today though


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## MyselfAgain

OVS, may I suggest either taking her number out of your phone (having to type it each time with give you the opportunity to change your mind) OR change the name to something undesirable...in my phone, my stbxh is entered as "Quitter!!! Liar!!!" Which is pretty accurate.


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## UpnDown

I removed my last name from her on my phone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Berilo

UpnDown said:


> I removed my last name from her on my phone
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did the same!


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## canguy66

Spun, first off, I am sorry you're going through this. My walk through hell started in December 2011. It took me 3.5 months to grieve the loss of my marriage, and another 3 to get closure. In my case, it took about 3 months before I started to see a light in the darkness. Getting better is all about what you DO with the time.

In early June, I finally for closure. A few days later, this wonderful woman sends me a message on Facebook. After three weeks of messaging, texting and calls we had had our first date a week ago. Our fifth date is today.

Things are more than better. They're fantastic. This is because I took the time to work on myself first, to heal and grow, and everything I've gained was hard-won. It was not easy, but so very worth it.

I am now dating a woman I truly feel a connection with, one I did not know was possible to feel with anyone. I finally realized I was in the wrong relationship all along, and the future has never looked brighter. I have never been this strong, confident or happy in my life. If this helps, here's one of my threads. I wish you the very best. Hold on, as the roller coaster rides are crazy. Work on yourself and have patience. The hell doesn't last forever, and you don't even realize the happiness and peace waiting on the side.

Cheers!

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/44520-breaking-through-after-grieving-period-progress-so-far.html


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## spun

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spun

Thanks Canguy. You seem to have initially followed a similar path to me. Your wisdom and story is uplifting. Thank you for restoring hope for me. You made my day!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spun

Thought I'd stop in here and continue sharing my journey through hell. That process seems to really help a lot of folks on here and I learn so much from the threads that keep on going.

Six months into my separation hell now (spurred by wife's infidelity), I still continue to have a really hard time with my emotions. Wish the hope would just die. It's insane really on my part to even go to that place. Neither of us has filed yet, but we are going to mediation in two weeks to begin negotiations regarding parenting plans, division of assets etc. I guess we will file once the ball is rolling with those issues. I so don't want the D, but she has refused to even see if we might be able to get to a place where the R is even just a possibility.

Unfortunately, I also continue to let her run my emotions. Just yesterday, after she dropped the kids for my 4 days with them, she hopped a plane. The infuriating part about it is that she took off with out even mentioning she was leaving the state. I only found out because an emergency came up at work and I was unable to get to the family home to relieve the sitter in time. She's usually there, so I text her and say I'll be about a half-hour behind schedule, and I'll get the kids from here. She texts back that she can't do it because she made "plans". "She did not discuss them because she got a cheap flight last minute". Did not reveal here whereabouts (obviously with posOM) or when she will arrive home when asked. WTF? Leaving town is fine, but what if there is an emergency involving me or the kids. Don't tell anyone where you are or when you are scheduled to return. 

Somebody smack me upside the head because for some reason I still have a soft spot in my heart for this women.

I am living in this fantasy of what our marriage once was, and what I always hoped it would be. Why is it so damn hard for logic to override emotions.

At this point, I wonder if she eventually just might not come back home at all at some point in the future. She is a good mom, and plays the she wants what's best for the kids routine, but she seems to be getting more unpredictable as this whole thing unfolds. Can't trust anything that comes out of her mouth. 

So sad, I shared a life and bed with her for 15 years.


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## spun

Today is going to be a rough one. The wife still remains on her "secret" vacation with posOM. Today is the day we do the kid switch. Not a mention of when she is returning, or even what time to make the switch. Hope I can keep it under control. It's heartbreaking to know she's been off sleeping with him for the last 4 days. I am strange blend of angry and sad. Will definitely need to stay strong when we meet to exchange the girls. I hope I can hold it together emotionally and say nothing to her.


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## Conrad

How much of your current focus would you say is on her and her activities?


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## spun

Conrad said:


> How much of your current focus would you say is on her and her activities?


Too much. Consumes me to be honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Too much. Consumes me to be honest.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you in therapy?


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## spun

Conrad said:


> Are you in therapy?


You bet. Problem is I am feeling way too responsible for the marital breakdown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> You bet. Problem is I am feeling way too responsible for the marital breakdown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you exposed the affair?


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## spun

Yes. Affair was exposed to family and friends months ago.

posOM is in the thick of his own divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Frostflower

canguy66 said:


> Spun, first off, I am sorry you're going through this. My walk through hell started in December 2011. It took me 3.5 months to grieve the loss of my marriage, and another 3 to get closure. In my case, it took about 3 months before I started to see a light in the darkness. Getting better is all about what you DO with the time.
> 
> In early June, I finally for closure. A few days later, this wonderful woman sends me a message on Facebook. After three weeks of messaging, texting and calls we had had our first date a week ago. Our fifth date is today.
> 
> Things are more than better. They're fantastic. This is because I took the time to work on myself first, to heal and grow, and everything I've gained was hard-won. It was not easy, but so very worth it.
> 
> I am now dating a woman I truly feel a connection with, one I did not know was possible to feel with anyone. I finally realized I was in the wrong relationship all along, and the future has never looked brighter. I have never been this strong, confident or happy in my life. If this helps, here's one of my threads. I wish you the very best. Hold on, as the roller coaster rides are crazy. Work on yourself and have patience. The hell doesn't last forever, and you don't even realize the happiness and peace waiting on the side.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/44520-breaking-through-after-grieving-period-progress-so-far.html


Canguy, thanks for posting. I just read your link and, wow, it was just what I needed to hear. I'm going to print it so I can re-read it as needed.

Spun, it's been four months for me and it still hurts. Hang in there. We have to believe it gets better.


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes. Affair was exposed to family and friends months ago.
> 
> posOM is in the thick of his own divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, it's "them" against the world.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> So, it's "them" against the world.


I guess, so sad she would choose this over 15 years and two small girls and a chance
To keep us all together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> I guess, so sad she would choose this over 15 years and two small girls and a chance
> To keep us all together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In double-divorce situations, the pressures on the couples leaving their spouses are enormous.

They have about a 5% chance of being together in 5 years time.

Are you positioning yourself as "Plan B" in case they don't make it?


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## spun

Conrad said:


> In double-divorce situations, the pressures on the couples leaving their spouses are enormous.
> 
> They have about a 5% chance of being together in 5 years time.
> 
> Are you positioning yourself as "Plan B" in case they don't make it?


I think so. She knows I have been available for R.
The constant rejection and disrespect is beginning to wear me thin, I think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> I think so. She knows I have been available for R.
> The constant rejection and disrespect is beginning to wear me thin, I think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to go to no contact.

Being "Plan B" will likely only make you "Plan B" for the next several posOM's.

It won't get you respected.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> You need to go to no contact.
> 
> Being "Plan B" will likely only make you "Plan B" for the next several posOM's.
> 
> It won't get you respected.


NC with young children is oh so easy in theory but not in practice. What difference will it make after months of being available, the occassional pleading etc...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> NC with young children is oh so easy in theory but not in practice. What difference will it make after months of being available, the occassional pleading etc...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She'll notice.

Trust me on this.


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## spun

Hope I can do it going from here forward. I am tired of trying to convince her that we should put the D on hold and that I am willing to walk thru hell to put our family back together. It's so easy to be a pathetic, begging mess that wants to turn back the clock to when things were so good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Hope I can do it going from here forward. I am tired of trying to convince her that we should put the D on hold and that I am willing to walk thru hell to put our family back together. It's so easy to be a pathetic, begging mess that wants to turn back the clock to when things were so good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you read the rules for the 180?


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## spun

Conrad said:


> Have you read the rules for the 180?


Yes. Found them on here. I'm so bad at it. I am baffled by how little self respect I have with this woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Frostflower

spun said:


> Yes. Found them on here. I'm so bad at it. I am baffled by how little self respect I have with this woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The 180 will help you build self respect.


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes. Found them on here. I'm so bad at it. I am baffled by how little self respect I have with this woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amazing, isn't it?

You admit you love someone and it's so easy to cave in.


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## spun

You'd think that showing them you'd go to the edge of the earth for them would have some impact. Nada. Fantasy land is where it's at.

Wish I could just let go and accept that it is over between us. That where the 180 will help, I guess.

I so just want to be happy again...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> You'd think that showing them you'd go to the edge of the earth for them would have some impact. Nada. Fantasy land is where it's at.
> 
> Wish I could just let go and accept that it is over between us. That where the 180 will help, I guess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Showing love in response to bad treatment is actually positive reinforcement - and promotes more bad treatment.

Yes, it is sad.


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## StillRemains

Spun, I'm in your shoes right now, minus the A at least as far as I know yet. Only been a little over a week here since the bomb. Husband left suddenly and I was and still am devastated. He's golfing and going out with friends. I don't understand how he could just walk out on his family (a darn good one at that) without looking back. It's killing me but I've gone no contact unless he contacts me first. The kids live with me so if he wants to see them, he contacts me. I know how hard it is to be strong sometimes. I still know him enough to know it would do no good to beg him to change his mind. Sometimes giving a person exactly what they (think) they want is the best way to go.

I'd love to have this pain in my chest go away. I wish I could turn my feelings off as easily as he seems to have. But I do know the best thing right now is for me to worry about me and my kids, no one else. It's really hard after almost 20 years with the guy to all of a sudden have to flip the switch and stop caring so I can totally relate to how you're feeling. Reading here helps. I can't wait until the day when I finally stop hurting.


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## spun

StillRemains,

My heart goes out to you. Hang on. First week you are definitely feeling strong because it is being blocked out by your mind for the most part. Wait till the shock wears off.

I too thought for a while how do they just flip the switch. They don't. Truth is they have been detaching for months, maybe even years. 

We are left behind and have miles to cross to catch up to their level of detachment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sham1024

I am 4mths in, my husband has been using prostitutes for 15yrs of our 20yr marriage and told me because he thought he had HIV. I have filed for divorce and moved out a week after the bomb dropped. He is negative for HIV, and wants us to stay together, I wish he would leave me alone, it makes me hurt more to know that not only did I invest 20yrs of my life with this person that I loved, but that he thinks we can still be together, and counseling will make everything better. I do feel less anger now, but the sadness is always there, he seems to be OK, but he did not lose a marriage that he never valued.


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## StillRemains

Yes, I still have numb moments right now to help gird my loins. I know it's going to get worse before it gets better. You're right about having to catch up. I even told him that. I found out he was telling people he was going to do this a month before and I'm sure he had plans long before that. I told him he needs to give me time to catch up to where he's at. I'm already starting to see that in many ways, I'm going to be happier without him. He hadn't been much of a partner to me for a very long time, probably because he was detaching. Nice that he was able to do all his grieving right in the comfort of his home with intact family.


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## StillRemains

Oh Sham, I am so sorry. How awful.


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## spun

StillRemains said:


> Yes, I still have numb moments right now to help gird my loins. I know it's going to get worse before it gets better. You're right about having to catch up. I even told him that. I found out he was telling people he was going to do this a month before and I'm sure he had plans long before that. I told him he needs to give me time to catch up to where he's at. I'm already starting to see that in many ways, I'm going to be happier without him. He hadn't been much of a partner to me for a very long time, probably because he was detaching. Nice that he was able to do all his grieving right in the comfort of his home with intact family.


SR,

Yes, grieving the end of your marriage in silence in your home, right next to you...so sad but that was the reality of my situation too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Frostflower

Sham, I am grieving because my husband left me for one woman. I can't begin to imagine your pain. Thank Heavens he is not HIV positive. 

Believe in yourself and the decision you have made.


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## sham1024

Some days I can feel hope for the future and other days it feels like I cannot face the future because of the awful past. I try to live in the moment and not look at what it will be like to be alone and start again. I doubt my judgement of people and have little confidence in myself, but therapy has been a good thing and I know that even though my self esteem is zero my friends and family have been the stable force and have my back.


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## Frostflower

sham1024 said:


> Some days I can feel hope for the future and other days it feels like I cannot face the future because of the awful past. I try to live in the moment and not look at what it will be like to be alone and start again. I doubt my judgement of people and have little confidence in myself, but therapy has been a good thing and I know that even though my self esteem is zero my friends and family have been the stable force and have my back.


Living in the moment, I think, is the best strategy for all of us. Thinking of the past is too sad and thinking of the future too scary. 

I could use a healthy dose of self-esteem too and I do find therapy helps. The biggest thing my therapist has done for me so far has been to affirm what I have been feeling. I tend to doubt myself and figure that I am over-reacting or am wrong to feel what I do. My therapist assures me that most women in my position would feel the same way, and it helps to know that.


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## spun

Trying to implement the 180. Upon her arrival back from her secret vacation with posOM, I said very little. Did not do the please come back grovel that is typical of me. But, I was not able to act as detached as I hoped...asked her how she does this. She responded because you were never sweet to me. WTF? Such bull****. I simply said, yeah right was never sweet to you in the 15 years were together. The history rewriting is so sad.

Anyway, about an hour after I drove off she texts saying she needs the pool passes for tomorrow and to drop them off. Normally I would respond quickly saying ok, but I did not at all. An hour later another text, about some math worksheets (of which there are literally hundreds in her place), that she also wants me to drop by. I don't respond, because neither message requires a response. Half hour later my cell rings I don't pickup. So a couple of successes her, albeit small ones. Seems like she is looking for excuses to contact me. I need to take the power she has over my emotions away from her.

Still, in my wildest dreams, I wish she would come back, even though I know deep in my heart that she is long gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillRemains

I'm experiencing the rewriting, too. Like he has become someone else and has created this version of me in his head that never existed. That is hurtful. I think it's their way of justifying their actions or something. No matter how much pain I'm in, I can still look back and say there were positive things but it's like he has erased any good and even replaced it with imagined wrongs. I know I wasn't perfect but I also wasn't as bad as he's making it out. I don't know. 

I'm trying to do no contact this week. He already sent me an email this morning. I replied with one word. I am doing halfway better and then I get that and my heart is pounding and my chest is hurting again. It's so stinkin hard. Like you, I wish he would come back, but then I think how could it even happen? Even if he had a change of heart, it will never, ever be the same for me again now even if he did. I will never again trust him with my heart because I'll always be wondering when he will bolt on us again. I'm going to call about IC for me this week, too. I feel like I'm starting to go crazy with so many thoughts in my head.


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Trying to implement the 180. Upon her arrival back from her secret vacation with posOM, I said very little. Did not do the please come back grovel that is typical of me. But, I was not able to act as detached as I hoped...asked her how she does this. She responded because you were never sweet to me. WTF? Such bull****. I simply said, yeah right was never sweet to you in the 15 years were together. The history rewriting is so sad.
> 
> Anyway, about an hour after I drove off she texts saying she needs the pool passes for tomorrow and to drop them off. Normally I would respond quickly saying ok, but I did not at all. An hour later another text, about some math worksheets (of which there are literally hundreds in her place), that she also wants me to drop by. I don't respond, because neither message requires a response. Half hour later my cell rings I don't pickup. So a couple of successes her, albeit small ones. Seems like she is looking for excuses to contact me. I need to take the power she has over my emotions away from her.
> 
> Still, in my wildest dreams, I wish she would come back, even though I know deep in my heart that she is long gone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep reading.

Read the last couple pages of Locke's thread.

Quit arguing. Quit letting her get to you.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> Keep reading.
> 
> Read the last couple pages of Locke's thread.
> 
> Quit arguing. Quit letting her get to you.


I know, I know. But how do you not let someone who is cramming an unwanted D down your throat not get to you?

Wish I had been on here when it all fell apart six months ago, I'd be so much further ahead, and maybe with a wife that is not so firmly committed to dissolving everything we have built together.

I struggle to keep my mouth shut. I don't need this woman to be happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> I know, I know. But how do you not let someone who is cramming an unwanted D down your throat not get to you?
> 
> Wish I had been on here when it all fell apart six months ago, I'd be so much further ahead, and maybe with a wife that is not so firmly committed to dissolving everything we have built together.
> 
> I struggle to keep my mouth shut. I don't need this woman to be happy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That last line you wrote is the PERFECT place to start.


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## Conrad

spun,

Here's one suggestion.

It's a good way of standing up to her in the context of divorce.

"I'm not ok with paying for a divorce I don't want"

Let her respond to that.

Make sure you remain emotionless.


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## spun

Conrad,

Interesting idea, because the payment for our mediation is due today. Do I text her and simply say I won't pay for my half, because I don't want the D?

It worries me because I dont want to get slapped with papers and have to hire an attorney. Neither one of us want to give all our money to attorneys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Interesting idea, because the payment for our mediation is due today. Do I text her and simply say I won't pay for my half, because I don't want the D?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, but I'd let her know well in advance of the meeting - so she can plan accordingly.


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## spun

Why would it not be better to give her the D if she wants the D. That would be true to 180 form given that I have fought tooth and nail against it, no?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Why would it not be better to give her the D if she wants the D. That would be true to 180 form given that I have fought tooth and nail against it, no?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The 180 is you being true to you.

Part of that is not paying for things you don't want.


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## Lonelyin NC

I am sorry to hear what you're going through. Its been 5 months since my seperation with little or no contact from my wife. Anytime we have talked, she has been very cold toward me. I have my occasional fits of anxiety and depression. I had a meltdown last Friday. A friend of mine thinks I should talk to my therapist about perscribing me something to help. Im not one to take pills , but for me this has been an uphill battle on ice.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> The 180 is you being true to you.
> 
> Part of that is not paying for things you don't want.


A small victory here perhaps. I simply did not respond to the request to split the mediator's retainer fee.

She put the entire fee on her credit card. If she asks for half. Well, I will say I am not ok with paying for a divorce I don't want.


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## Conrad

spun said:


> A small victory here perhaps. I simply did not respond to the request to split the mediator's retainer fee.
> 
> She put the entire fee on her credit card. If she asks for half. Well, I will say I am not ok with paying for a divorce I don't want.


Victories start small, and get larger.


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## Frostflower

Conrad, you've given us all something to think about. My husband hasn't broached the subject of divorce, but I'm sure it will come, especially if the OW has her way. I never would have thought of responding that way. I like it!


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## spun

I have to say today is the best day I have experienced in the last six months. I feel good that I have not responded to her unneccessary texts.

Dropped the pool passes on the back porch, did not even let her know I was there.

Best of all, when I was driving into work I saw her on her run. She clearly saw me driving past, kept laser focus and pretended I did not see her. This by itself was kind of interesting because it is route that goes right by the parking lot of m office and is one that she never takes. I think she may be checking up on where I am since I have not responded to her.

Now I need to get to a place where I dont care whether my lack of contact is effecting her.

Regardless, I feel better than I have in months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I have to say today is the best day I have experienced in the last six months. I feel good that I have not responded to her unneccessary texts.
> 
> Dropped the pool passes on the back porch, did not even let her know I was there.
> 
> Best of all, when I was driving into work I saw her on her run. She clearly saw me driving past, kept laser focus and pretended I did not see her. This by itself was kind of interesting because it is route that goes right by the parking lot of m office and is one that she never takes. I think she may be checking up on where I am since I have not responded to her.
> 
> Now I need to get to a place where I dont care whether my lack of contact is effecting her.
> 
> Regardless, I feel better than I have in months.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay the course.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Stay the course.


You bet. It's a relief to finally be heading into a space where I no longer feel complelled to be a groveling, sad, angry, and apologetic mess.

It's not all me, and I get that, for real now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mule kick

I feel fortunate to be just about over this divorce and just about over the heartbreak without being angry or begging or petty. I haven't done the 180 because I don't want her back but I do want a closer than normal divorced life. More importantly the legal work of getting divorced has been smooth as silk, with her agreeing to almost everything I want without the need for mediation. Papers go I this week and after 3+ months of sleeping in an empty (well most nights) bed I can finally feel myself moving forward past that marriage to a fun future.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> You bet. It's a relief to finally be heading into a space where I no longer feel complelled to be a groveling, sad, angry, and apologetic mess.
> 
> It's not all me, and I get that, for real now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Every post I open tonight is super positive and about growth.

Great job!


----------



## spun

Mornings are the most empty time for me. I miss my bed, and waking up next to her.

God, I loved that woman with my whole being. Have to remind myself how she became so rigid and devalued me over time. I ended up with no voice. And, that's not a sustainable relationship.

Looking forward to a day when I find someone with compassion, who values me, and who loves me for who I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Mornings are the most empty time for me. I miss my bed, and waking up next to her.
> 
> God, I loved that woman with my whole being. Have to remind myself how she became so rigid and devalued me over time. I ended up with no voice. And, that's not a sustainable relationship.
> 
> Looking forward to a day when I find someone with compassion, who values me, and who loves me for who I am.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Work on yourself first.

Have you ever seen the movie Blue Valentine?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Work on yourself first.
> 
> Have you ever seen the movie Blue Valentine?


No. Sounds like it will put me in a deep, dark hole.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> No. Sounds like it will put me in a deep, dark hole.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Rent it today.


----------



## StillRemains

I feel your grief, Spun. When I wake up in the morning, I feel "normal" for a split second and then it all comes rushing back. Today was the first morning I didn't cry when it came rushing back. I'm quite sure I'll still cry some mornings, but at least I didn't today! 

I also feel devalued and like I was given no voice so I really related to that. 

I have seen the movie Blue Valentine a while back. I remember thinking at the time how sad it was to watch it all unravel like that. I'm sure it would have a lot more meaning now.


----------



## spun

StillRemains said:


> I feel your grief, Spun. When I wake up in the morning, I feel "normal" for a split second and then it all comes rushing back. Today was the first morning I didn't cry when it came rushing back. I'm quite sure I'll still cry some mornings, but at least I didn't today!
> 
> I also feel devalued and like I was given no voice so I really related to that.
> 
> I have seen the movie Blue Valentine a while back. I remember thinking at the time how sad it was to watch it all unravel like that. I'm sure it would have a lot more meaning now.


Yes. The lack of having a voice played a big part in fueling what eventually became our toxic dance. I'd bend, bend, bend, say I'm not ok with this. Got me nowhere, other than making me a depressed angry man.

I should feel some sense of relief that I am free of her emotional backhanding.

But, I still dream that we might somehow try to fix it. I know that's not going to happen though because she would actually have to step up and share some of blame for the demise of our marriage. No way in hell that will ever happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Spun,

Did your push backs include high emotion?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Spun,
> 
> Did your push backs include high emotion?


Yes, unfortunately they did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes, unfortunately they did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You probably already know what I'm going to say.

A dispassionate "I'm not ok with that" communicates strength and force.

A whiny angry, "I'm not ok with that and here's why" - means you are begging HER to understand and AGREE with your point of view.

If you NEED her to agree with your point of view, you are NEEDY.

It's the opposite of masculine standing strong.

Watch the movie - you'll see it in spades.


----------



## spun

Conrad,

Yes, finally started to see how unattractive I had been. 

At least I am there now. I'm going to hold strong, because she will surely try to take advantage of my big heart in our mediation.

Neither of us has filed for D. And there has been no talk of when. I guess it's not over until then.

Regardless, I am going dark except for the kids and issues surrounding the division of our assets.

God, this hurts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Yes, finally started to see how unattractive I had been.
> 
> At least I am there now. I'm going to hold strong, because she will surely try to take advantage of my big heart in our mediation.
> 
> Neither of us has filed for D. And there has been no talk of when. I guess it's not over until then.
> 
> Regardless, I am going dark except for the kids and issues surrounding the division of our assets.
> 
> God, this hurts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why even speak of division of assets?

Are you paying her to leave you?


----------



## spun

Heck no, I stopped paying and pulled my half out of all our joint accounts when I found out about her affair.

She's still in the house and can't afford to pay for it long term. So we need to figure that out. Do I buy her out, do we sell.

PosOM lives out of state and I don't want to be responsible when she racks up debt traveling and staying in expensive hotels which is what continues to this day

Also, need to get parenting plan worked out and legal. posOM lives out of state and I don't want to chance her taking off with my girls.

_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


----------



## Conrad

Are you making the house payment?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Are you making the house payment?


No she is out of her half. We agreed she would stay in the house for now, so as to not uproot our girls, until a final plan is in action.

I know where you are going with this, shes going to claim abandonment of the home. It's only been 3 months since I stopped contributing to the payments. 

Regardless, need to get that sorted out so she can't try to go down that road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> No she is out of her half. We agreed she would stay in the house for now, so as to not uproot our girls, until a final plan is in action.
> 
> I know where you are going with this, shes going to claim abandonment of the home. It's only been 3 months since I stopped contributing to the payments.
> 
> Regardless, need to get that sorted out so she can't try to go down that road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Often, niceguys will continue to pay for their wives to live... even live WITH posOM. I cannot imagine anything weaker.

Cover your bases legally on the abandonment front and you're ok on this.


----------



## spun

Just got another very terse email from her about providing documents for next weeks appt. with the mediator.

Man, I so never imagined we would come to this.

It will be years before I get out of this emotional hole.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Just got another very terse email from her about providing documents for next weeks appt. with the mediator.
> 
> Man, I so never imagined we would come to this.
> 
> It will be years before I get out of this emotional hole.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As long as she foots the legal bill, you're willing to sign any proposed settlement that YOU are ok with....

Get the picture?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> As long as she foots the legal bill, you're willing to sign any proposed settlement that YOU are ok with....
> 
> Get the picture?


Yes. You're telling me to grow a pair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Going on 3 days with absolutely no contact at all. I get the kids back today, so will have to see her when we make the switch.

Seeing her even briefly stirs up a lot of emotion. Can't stand that.

I let her have way too much power over me. Ugh...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Going on 3 days with absolutely no contact at all. I get the kids back today, so will have to see her when we make the switch.
> 
> Seeing her even briefly stirs up a lot of emotion. Can't stand that.
> 
> I let her have way too much power over me. Ugh...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you rent the movie?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Did you rent the movie?


No. Will tonight. Not looking forward to the tailspin it likely is going to put my head in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> No. Will tonight. Not looking forward to the tailspin it likely is going to put my head in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Rent Blazing Saddles and make it a double feature.

I really like the musical fart part.


----------



## Santa

spun said:


> Going on 3 days with absolutely no contact at all. I get the kids back today, so will have to see her when we make the switch.
> 
> Seeing her even briefly stirs up a lot of emotion. Can't stand that.
> 
> I let her have way too much power over me. Ugh...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I feel you brother... This is the hardest part for me too.


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> Rent Blazing Saddles and make it a double feature.
> 
> I really like the musical fart part.


Oh, you boys!

Good luck with the switchover, Spun. Deep breaths and imagine Conrad sitting on your shoulder.


----------



## spun

Two short texts to wife about nothing else other than time and place for the kid switchover. Felt good. About 2 minutes after responding to her text of what time, with nothing other than 4pm, she drops a text asking me if she should make and send over a loaf of bread. No response from me. WTF? I don't care what you bake or where you send it.

Now, Zen-like detachment for the pickup.


----------



## Frostflower

Atta boy!!


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Atta boy!!


Pulled it off. No expression of emotion on my part. She brought up a credit card bill, wanted me to pay my half without seeing it. I asked to see it. She seemed annoyed but complied. I did not see any affair business charges. Agreed to pay my charges of course.

She said we will split the mediator's retainer fee on her card. And to include that when I cut the check for my charges.
I said I'm not ok with paying for something that I dont want. The D is her choice. So she can pay it.

She was dumbfounded...and could not even come up with a response.

I'm sure she try again to get it out of me. I'm not going to cough it up though.

Feeling alright.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Pulled it off. No expression of emotion on my part. She brought up a credit card bill, wanted me to pay my half without seeing it. I asked to see it. She seemed annoyed but complied. I did not see any affair business charges. Agreed to pay my charges of course.
> 
> She said we will split the mediator's retainer fee on her card. And to include that when I cut the check for my charges.
> 
> I said I'm not ok with paying for something that I dont want. The D is her choice. So she can pay it.
> 
> She was dumbfounded...and could even come up with a response.
> 
> I'm sure she try again to get it out of me. I'm not going to cough it up though.
> 
> Feeling alright.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Excuse me while I stand and applaud!!!*


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> *Excuse me while I stand and applaud!!!*


Feels good to have a pair for a change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Pulled it off. No expression of emotion on my part. She brought up a credit card bill, wanted me to pay my half without seeing it. I asked to see it. She seemed annoyed but complied. I did not see any affair business charges. Agreed to pay my charges of course.
> 
> She said we will split the mediator's retainer fee on her card. And to include that when I cut the check for my charges.
> I said I'm not ok with paying for something that I dont want. The D is her choice. So she can pay it.
> 
> She was dumbfounded...and could not even come up with a response.
> 
> I'm sure she try again to get it out of me. I'm not going to cough it up though.
> 
> Feeling alright.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Proud of ya, Spun!


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Feels good to have a pair for a change.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just for a moment, I want you to think about how she had no response and smile wickedly... (inwardly of course).

Now, back to reality.

Prepare for the next encounter.


----------



## spun

Ok, so apparently my changes may be having some effect on her. Got another text about 2 hrs after the switch. It was about my 8 yr old daughter, who she noticed has gained a little weight and not to say anything about it to her. The message in no way requires a response, so my inclination is to stick to being dark, since she almost never initiates text, especially once we have made the kid switch. But I also don't want to seem like I'm a dad that does not care. Do I respond?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Ok, so apparently my changes may be having some effect on her. Got another text about 2 hrs after the switch. It was about my 8 yr old daughter, who she noticed has gained a little weight and not to say anything about it to her. The message in no way requires a response, so my inclination is to stick to being dark, since she almost never initiates text, especially once we have made the kid switch. But I also don't want to seem like I'm a dad that does not care. Do I respond?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Answer it in the morning.


----------



## spun

Wow, just had a short phone conversation with stbxw wife about issues to be discussed in mediation on monday. I told her I don't seen the need for mediation, since we have already discussed them and we seem to be in agreement with how the settlement will be drawn up. 

The D came up. I told her I won't be filing since it is not something that I want.

Full on emotional and verbal assualt from her blaming me for the failure of the marriage and her need to step out with someone else. You see I got us to this place all by myself. Can't say that it did not tear my heart out. Felt like my heart was going to pound right out of my chest.

Seriously now that I am no longer in a complete fog, I see that the only way that I could have pleased her is to lay down. She puts me down and reprimands me and orders me around like a child. Complete and utter bull****. I have worked my ass off to help get us where we are. I have a fvcking PhD and am more than successfully employed. 

Yeah, now I know how I ended up a depressed, angry man. Years of being devalued and emotional backhanding to get me to give into what SHE WANTS.

And, exactly why have I been hoping there is R in our future? No way we could ever be. I can't be with someone that has no ability to see themselves in anything.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Wow, just had a short phone conversation with stbxw wife about issues to be discussed in mediation on monday. I told her I don't seen the need for mediation, since we have already discussed them and we seem to be in agreement with how the settlement will be drawn up.
> 
> The D came up. I told her I won't be filing since it is not something that I want.
> 
> Full on emotional and verbal assualt from her blaming me for the failure of the marriage and her need to step out with someone else. You see I us to to this place all by myself. Can't say that it did not tear my heart out. Felt like my heart was going to pound right out of my chest.
> 
> Seriously now that I am no longer in a complete fog, I see that the only way that I could have pleased her is to lay down. She puts me down and reprimands me and orders me around like a child. Complete and utter bull****. I have worked my ass off to help get us where we are. I have a fvcking PhD and am more than successfully employed.
> 
> Yeah, now I know how I ended up a depressed, angry man. Years of being devalued and emotional backhanding to get me to give into what SHE WANTS.
> 
> And, exactly why have I been hoping there is R in our future? No way we could ever be. I can't be with someone that has no ability to see themselves in anything.


Spun, it sounds like you have been verbally and emotionally abused for years. Good for you for not losing it with her when she lit into you. It must have been very hard to keep your cool.

Does she wantD. is that why she blew when you said you wouldn't be filing? If so, why doesn't she file?

Thanks for your comments on my thread. They have been a huge help in getting me to think things through.


----------



## StillRemains

Spun, I think our STBXs might be related.  

Mine said something to me yesterday that reminded me how little he thinks of my intelligence. For a split second, I even thought, "At least I don't have to put up with that crap anymore." Must be some kind of progress, eh? 

But seriously, good for you! I think that somewhere very deep down, the inferiority complex is theirs and they are projecting it onto us.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Spun, it sounds like you have been verbally and emotionally abused for years. Good for you for not losing it with her when she lit into you. It must have been very hard to keep your cool.
> 
> Does she wantD. is that why she blew when you said you wouldn't be filing? If so, why doesn't she file?
> 
> Thanks for your comments on my thread. They have been a huge help in getting me to think things through.


That's clearly what her actions scream. But, you know it's strange she completely avoids using the D word at great lengths. Must be a denial that she is doing this to us thing.

I also think she may figure there is something in it for her to become legally separated, but not divorce. Who knows she's always made all her moves within our life in a very cryptic way. Passive-aggressive control freak.

Hang in there frost. We're all in this together.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> That's clearly what her actions scream. But, you know it's strange she completely avoids using the D word at great lengths. Must be a denial that she is doing this to us thing.
> 
> I also think she may figure there is something in it for her to become legally separated, but not divorce. Who knows she's always made all her moves within our life in a very cryptic way. Passive-aggressive control freak.
> 
> Hang in there frost. We're all in this together.


Maybe she thinks she can pressure you into filing for D. Then it's all your fault!


----------



## Conrad

spun,

Guess what?

Once you lay down, does that make her happy?

HELL NO. Then she doesn't "respect you".

Get the picture?



spun said:


> Wow, just had a short phone conversation with stbxw wife about issues to be discussed in mediation on monday. I told her I don't seen the need for mediation, since we have already discussed them and we seem to be in agreement with how the settlement will be drawn up.
> 
> The D came up. I told her I won't be filing since it is not something that I want.
> 
> Full on emotional and verbal assualt from her blaming me for the failure of the marriage and her need to step out with someone else. You see I got us to this place all by myself. Can't say that it did not tear my heart out. Felt like my heart was going to pound right out of my chest.
> 
> Seriously now that I am no longer in a complete fog, I see that the only way that I could have pleased her is to lay down. She puts me down and reprimands me and orders me around like a child. Complete and utter bull****. I have worked my ass off to help get us where we are. I have a fvcking PhD and am more than successfully employed.
> 
> Yeah, now I know how I ended up a depressed, angry man. Years of being devalued and emotional backhanding to get me to give into what SHE WANTS.
> 
> And, exactly why have I been hoping there is R in our future? No way we could ever be. I can't be with someone that has no ability to see themselves in anything.


----------



## spun

It's so hard for me to wrap my head around this situation. I am baffled and frustrated how she has no interest in putting back together our marriage and family. Really? Our two little girlls don't deserve us all under one roof? The life that we built for the last 15 years has so little worth? Sure we developed our share of issues, but now they are really out in the open so they can be worked on. I'm not a quitter, so it's just so hard to accept that we are over. That life, that was once so beautiful, I guess it's now dead. Maybe it's me thats living in a fantasy now, not my stbxw.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> It's so hard for me to wrap my head around this situation. I am baffled and frustrated how she has no interest in putting back together our marriage and family. Really? Our two little girlls don't deserve us all under one roof? The life that we built for the last 15 years has so little worth? Sure we developed our share of issues, but now they are really out in the open so they can be worked on. I'm not a quitter, so it's just so hard to accept that we are over. That life, that was once so beautiful, I guess it's now dead. Maybe it's me thats living in a fantasy now, not my stbxw.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Where is your focus?

On her or on you?


----------



## StillRemains

Oh, spun, you have just vocalized my exact feelings. I look at our kids and think how can someone just give up that easily? But they don't see it as giving up on their kids, only us. They tell themselves the kids will be fine. They think that after all, we have well-adjusted kids so they'll understand and maybe even thank the WAS one day. My STBXH has even used the kids as one of his excuses for leaving, that he will be a better dad away from the stress of "here." Meanwhile, I see the effects firsthand and know that's not the case. I see them losing respect for him and I hate that, too. This is not the man I chose to be their dad! Wish I knew where that guy went. I believe the WAS lives in denial when it comes to the effects on the kids for sure. 

I suppose maybe we are in our own state of denial, too, as you pointed out. I think I want him back, but then I really stop and think about if he DID come back. What would it be like? I don't think it'd be good at all anymore. I love him and long for what was and could've been but don't think this guy moving back in would be at all fruitful. Like you, I'm also not a quitter, but I haven't quit--HE has and same goes for you. As bad as this hurts, I also know I don't want sloppy seconds or to be someone's second choice. One day we can look at our kids and say we tried or were willing to try anything to keep it together. They won't be able to do that.

I feel your anguish. Wish we could wave a wand and make the pain go away. I had a rough night and I'm still having a hard time this morning. I hate how I feel so strong one minute and then I'm back to being a pile of raw uncontrolled emotions the next.


----------



## Conrad

People can be very good at lying to themselves.

Yet, if we peel the onion back a bit deeper, they aren't the only ones lying.

Our delusions about how life "is" actually lie to us.

So, we lie to ourselves.

When the delusion doensn't line-up with how things "really" are, the emotional pressure starts. That's what puts pressure on us to "make it right".


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> People can be very good at lying to themselves.
> 
> Yet, if we peel the onion back a bit deeper, they aren't the only ones lying.
> 
> Our delusions about how life "is" actually lie to us.
> 
> So, we lie to ourselves.
> 
> When the delusion doensn't line-up with how things "really" are, the emotional pressure starts. That's what puts pressure on us to "make it right".


But, at the risk of sounding like a 'cute little fixer', should we not try to make it right? What are we if we simply accept a situation that is discordant with what we desire?


----------



## ImStillHere

Frostflower said:


> But, at the risk of sounding like a 'cute little fixer', should we not try to make it right? *What are we if we simply accept a situation that is discordant with what we desire?*


We are realists.


----------



## Frostflower

ImStillHere said:


> We are realists.


Okay, but shouldn't we at least try? Doesn't it make us quitters if we don't?


----------



## Conrad

Frostflower said:


> But, at the risk of sounding like a 'cute little fixer', should we not try to make it right? What are we if we simply accept a situation that is discordant with what we desire?


Of course.

But, we must realize that our journey and quest ends at the end of our nose.

We are to be the best WE can be.

Our ideas about what others should do for us.... those things are entirely up to them.


----------



## ImStillHere

Frostflower said:


> Okay, but shouldn't we at least try? Doesn't it make us quitters if we don't?


No, we aren't quitters. We just realize that we can't do the work alone. 

It is a futile process to try to rebuild a relationship/marriage with one person.


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> Of course.
> 
> But, we must realize that our journey and quest ends at the end of our nose.
> 
> We are to be the best WE can be.
> 
> Our ideas about what others should do for us.... those things are entirely up to them.


Jeeez. You're right again. How did you get to be so darned smart?!

How do we know when to fold?


----------



## Frostflower

ImStillHere said:


> No, we aren't quitters. We just realize that we can't do the work alone.
> 
> It is a futile process to try to rebuild a relationship/marriage with one person.


Futility is my middle name. I think I've been trying to do that for years.


----------



## spun

You know what? We have hit the key to moving forward and healing here. We will remain in emotional he'll... until we accept that there is not a damn thing we can do to change our spouses
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> You know what? We have hit the key to moving forward and healing here. We will remain in emotional he'll... until we accept that there is not a damn thing we can do to change our spouses
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We may have hit the key, but putting it in the lock, turning it and opening the door are other matters. Then we have to walk through the door.

But, good observation, Spun. You're right on.


----------



## ImStillHere

spun said:


> You know what? We have hit the key to moving forward and healing here. We will remain in emotional he'll... until we accept that there is not a damn thing we can do to change our spouses
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Acceptance is the most difficult part, IMHO. That's why it is the final stage of grief and the key to moving forward with your life.


----------



## Frostflower

ImStillHere said:


> Acceptance is the most difficult part, IMHO. That's why it is the final stage of grief and the key to moving forward with your life.


Not quite there yet.


----------



## Matt1720

focusing on, loving, and forgiving yourself is by far the toughest part.

its like everyone telling you to stare at the sun when all you want is to close your eyes and think of him/her.


----------



## spun

Matt1720 said:


> focusing on, loving, and forgiving yourself is by far the toughest part.
> 
> its like everyone telling you to stare at the sun when all you want is to close your eyes and think of him/her.


Yes, it's all about detaching from our past. When you get the rug pulled out from under you by someone you gave your soul to, it leaves you spinning trying to regain your ground. The leavers seem miles ahead. Truth is they detached while still in the marriage, leaving the dumped with a lot of catching up to do!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dumpedandhappy

Berilo said:


> I have been separated for 10 months. At first it felt really awful, given the turmoil -- the "closeness" of heightened emotional entanglement strangely juxtaposed with the raw silence of living alone again. (Given all the drama in my particular marital screenplay, perhaps I deserved to have an appropriate moving soundtrack to listen to!  )
> 
> I felt numb, interspersed with sharp pain. And occasional outbursts of anger.
> 
> But it got better month by month (certainly not day by day or week by week -- there were some major relapses). I think my recovery has been helped by the fact that I endured such abuse from my wife during most of our marriage that its sudden absence was itself a tonic -- once I woke up.
> 
> I tried to distract myself with work (fortunately, I had a really interesting project to chew on) and also "get out there" with sympathetic friends just to do stuff with. I have discovered I have as many close friends as I thought I had, and a happy by-product of this disaster is that I am closer to a bunch of them now.
> 
> I am not fully recovered yet, but I would like to begin dating again, casually and slowly ...
> 
> So my advice would be, hang in there, don't force anything. It's ok to feel bad, pissed off, whiplashed, but don't let it drag you down. You need to get back in touch with the positives in your life before you got married -- and maybe try something new. It's a great opportunity for the latter. (One fun thing I did was go out to the men's shop one day with two stylish co-workers who are ten years younger and get my wardrobe updated. I spent the following two weeks' entire paycheque on new duds, but it was fun, and worth it. I have never been much of a sharp dresser, but the fact that I had new, stylish clothes hanging in the wardrobe to wear to work and out was kind of a metaphor for my new independent self.)
> 
> Good luck with it spun -- and go for it!


:iagree:
Berillo,

Very excellent way of putting it! I couldn't agree more!
I have found that after 8 months that I am a new man! Yup at first it is not an easy transition, it can't ever be easy, but now I am fantastic. 

Why am I fantastic, because like Berillo says, I got back in touch with the positives, I am young enough to start again and have just as many good years left as I wasted on my ex. 

Life is good. When you reduce, slow things down and breath, it is good, emotions will start to fade once you replace them with the simple positive joys of this life. A cup of tea. A walk early in the morning, the realization that you are a good person, that you have a whole life to live yet, there will be laughter, fun and happiness soon and forever. 

I feel as though I am back being myself, that the marriage destroyed who I was truly inside and the breakup has freed me to do what I want. 

By the way: did you know there are hundreds if not thousands of good people out there, lonely and just looking for a friend? Those people make life a lot easier. I am dating now a woman whom I would never have believed existed and am feeling the joys of love for the last 6 months..

We don't live forever. Life is too short. Start now what you can do, work at the things you cannot and soon you will be doing the impossible!!

PS. Be kind, respectful and remember to give back to your community. Then you are a good person.


----------



## spun

I am SO god damn sick of this ride! Right now, I am staring through a wall of tears, with pings of rage mixed in.

She is a piece of ****! And, I'm a fool for loving her and believing in her!

Who the hell is this woman!

Hope that wonderful posOM goes and fvcks somebody else, so that she is left holding the bag one day!

Deep breaths...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> I am SO god damn sick of this ride! Right now, I am staring through a wall of tears, with pings of rage mixed in.
> 
> She is a piece of ****! And, I'm a fool for loving her and believing in her!
> 
> Who the hell is this woman!
> 
> Hope that wonderful posOM goes and fvcks somebody else, so that she is left holding the bag one day!
> 
> Deep breaths...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, Spun, you are not a fool. You are a man with a loving heart. You gave that heart to a woman who presented as someone who would hold it precious. We can't be expected to see the future, to see that one day the person we loved and trusted will rip our hearts to pieces. We can only act on what we believe at the time. We are not responsible if that person turns out to be something other than we thought. 

Seeing the best in people is a gift. And, seeing the best in her you gave yourself. Not a foolish act. A loving act. 

You have been faithful and have tried your best to build a good marriage.

Not a fool, Spun. A deeply loving, faithful man, worthy of respect. She's a fool for leaving you.


----------



## spun

Thanks frost. Your such a sweetheart .

Amazing she called this morning all cheery she said how are doing? Really? Then she rolls in to saying somethings wrong with the wireless router, hinting along the lines of me helping her fix when we switch the kids. Are you kidding me? It's delusional I'll tell you. She won't do or discuss a damn thing about us. But, yeah I'm supposed to stand in as the handy husband when she needs it.I did not offer to help. Said I will see you soon to pick up the girls.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Thanks frost. Your such a sweetheart .
> 
> Amazing she called this morning all cheery she said how are doing? Really? Then she rolls in to saying somethings wrong with the wireless router, hinting along the lines of me helping her fix when we switch the kids. Are you kidding me? It's delusional I'll tell you. She won't do or discuss a damn thing about us. But, yeah I'm supposed to stand in as the handy husband when she needs it.
> 
> I did not offer to help. Said I will see you soon to pick up the girls.
> 
> 
> Not a fool, Spun. A deeply loving, faithful man, worthy of respect. She's a fool for leaving you.[/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wait till she brings the router up when you're doing the switch, then simply hand her a piece of paper with a number to call for technical help.

You're sweet too!


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Wait till she brings the router up when you're doing the switch, then simply hand her a piece of paper with a number to call for technical help.
> 
> You're sweet too!


Already made the switch. She did not bring it up again. Had a short sit down with her about next months coparenting schedule. Breaks my heart to shuttle the kids around like this. I said this is how you want to live life going forward. She said well this is how it is for right now. What the heck does that mean?

I know detach, and observe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Frostflower said:


> Wait till she brings the router up when you're doing the switch, then simply hand her a piece of paper with a number to call for technical help.
> 
> You're sweet too!


"I'm not ok with being your husband only when it's time to fix things"

Spun, the truth will set you free.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> "I'm not ok with being your husband only when it's time to fix things"
> 
> Spun, the truth will set you free.


Wish I knew how to find truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Wish I knew how to find truth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell it brother. It's the only way to find it.

Sucking it in and hoping for happy endings/good outcomes is for suckers.


----------



## spun

To myself or her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> To myself or her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yourself first.

Her when she asks.


----------



## spun

Truth: we both are responsible for the decay of the marriage. I was unhappy with how things were going for a while. She was too. I still cared enough to remain faithful to her and my family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mule kick

Looking at the victim triangle, what she did was believe herself to be the victim of your marriage destruction so that she could justify her perpetrator actions that have broken your heart. If she was regularly abusing you chances are you can see that pattern over and over. It's your fault she had to attack you.


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> Tell it brother. It's the only way to find it.
> 
> Sucking it in and hoping for happy endings/good outcomes is for suckers.


Hope is a symptom of being human. Absence of hope is called depression. If we can't hope for happy endings (and I do realize they don't just happen; you have to work for the), then what are we to hope for?


----------



## Conrad

Frostflower said:


> Hope is a symptom of being human. Absence of hope is called depression. If we can't hope for happy endings (and I do realize they don't just happen; you have to work for the), then what are we to hope for?


Frost,

I like your questions.

Read what I wrote again... "sucking it in and hoping"

I have no problem with the "hoping" part.

"Sucking it in" when someone does you wrong and not standing up for yourself is a CERTAIN way to court bad outcomes.


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> Frost,
> 
> I like your questions.
> 
> Read what I wrote again... "sucking it in and hoping"
> 
> I have no problem with the "hoping" part.
> 
> "Sucking it in" when someone does you wrong and not standing up for yourself is a CERTAIN way to court bad outcomes.



Thank you, Conrad. I like your answers.

I re-read your words, taking a breath in a different spot. I see the difference and I agree.

I shall hope without sucking it in.


----------



## spun

It's the sucking it in part that ultimately leads to the demise of a marriage. Not standing up for yourself and saying hey I'm not ok with this, leads to more mistreatment. And so goes the dance. Sooner or later theres a mountain of resentment and theres no coming back.



Conrad said:


> Frost,
> 
> I like your questions.
> 
> Read what I wrote again... "sucking it in and hoping"
> 
> I have no problem with the "hoping" part.
> 
> "Sucking it in" when someone does you wrong and not standing up for yourself is a CERTAIN way to court bad outcomes.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> It's the sucking it in part that ultimately leads to the demise of a marriage. Not standing up for yourself and saying hey I'm not ok with this, leads to more mistreatment. And so goes the dance. Sooner or later theres a mountain of resentment and theres no coming back.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The "sucking it in" part FOLLOWS not standing up for yourself.


----------



## spun

mule kick said:


> Looking at the victim triangle, what she did was believe herself to be the victim of your marriage destruction so that she could justify her perpetrator actions that have broken your heart. If she was regularly abusing you chances are you can see that pattern over and over. It's your fault she had to attack you.


This is an interesting observation. We are both in IC. I'm not sure what she is getting out of hers. I think she just reads whatever her counselor says as supporting her walking out. A month or so back she told me her counselor said she should break it off with OM for 3 to 6 months before deciding on divorce. 2 weeks later she says her counselor supports her in continuing on with OM.

What counselor is going to encourage someone to pursue another relationship before even being divorced?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> What counselor is going to encourage someone to pursue another relationship before even being divorced?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One who relies on her weekly copays to pay his mortgage.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> One who relies on her weekly copays to pay his mortgage.


Ha! More than likely it's just her telling the counselor she's moving forward with OM and the counselor saying that's your choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Ha! More than likely it's just her telling the counselor she's moving forward with OM and the counselor saying that's your choice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's still telling you who she is.

When people do that, it's best to believe them.

She doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of things working out with posOM.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> She's still telling you who she is.
> 
> When people do that, it's best to believe them.
> 
> She doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of things working out with posOM.


Yes. I am not a vindictive guy at all, but it is hard not to wait for the karma bus to make it's next stop.

I think it is going to be a protracted process though given the geographic distance. They just can't see each other regularly to see each others flaws in handling daily living issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes. I am not a vindictive guy at all, but it is hard not to wait for the karma bus to make it's next stop.
> 
> I think it is going to be a protracted process though given the geographic distance. They just can't see each other regularly to see each others flaws in handling daily living issue.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That certainly stretches things out.

In some ways, it makes it "easier" for them to keep up the show.


----------



## spun

And what a show it is. The voice mails I have heard from this pos are filled with nothing but empty praise. It's so obvious from a guys perspective what he is after. She buys the fantasy of this is who this guy really is.

Damn, I just need to get some already!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> And what a show it is. The voice mails I have heard from this pos are filled with nothing but empty praise. It's so obvious from a guys perspective what he is after. She buys the fantasy of this is who this guy really is.
> 
> Damn, I just need to get some already!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have some. Just use them.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> You have some. Just use them.


I mean as in get some lovin'!

6 months is a heck of a long time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> I mean as in get some lovin'!
> 
> 6 months is a heck of a long time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oooops! Sorry. 

Can't help you there!


----------



## spun

Just trying to be light hearted in the midst of hanging on for dear life 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

Hey, Spun, I just read something that might explain your 'predicament' . Could this explain why you aren't 'getting some':

When you feel nobody loves you,
Nobody cares for you, 
Everone is ignoring you and people are jealous of you,
You should ask yourself,

*Am I too sexy?"*


Just a thought. :awink:


----------



## spun

Walking in to mediation now. Guess it's time to blow up everything we built together.

So dont want to be here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Walking in to mediation now. Guess it's time to blow up everything we built together.
> 
> So dont want to be here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you pay a dime for this, the 2x4's will come out.


----------



## spun

Conrad, she knows I'm not ok with paying for it. Has never mentioned a word of it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Conrad, she knows I'm not ok with paying for it. Has never mentioned a word of it again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought that might stop the entire show.

Ok, I'll put down the lumber.


----------



## spun

Wow, it is so depressing to divide up everything that you worked for. We really were sitting pretty...living the dream.

I am so sad to see our dream die. The onset of the separation was hell, but this hole seems to have no bottom.

I see no closure on the horizon. I am dead inside, a shell of a human being.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Wow, it is so depressing to divide up everything that you worked for. We really were sitting pretty...living the dream.
> 
> I am so sad to see our dream die. The onset of the separation was hell, but this hole seems to have no bottom.
> 
> I see no closure on the horizon. I am dead inside, a shell of a human being.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spun,

Why do you keep saying "our"?

Language is important.

Clearly, the dream is yours.

Make another dream.


----------



## spun

Thanks Conrad,

At least one thing is becoming clear to me...I lost myself in that marriage.

I need to find "me" again, whoever that is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Thanks Conrad,
> 
> At least one thing is becoming clear to me...I lost myself in that marriage.
> 
> I need to find "me" again, whoever that is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you rented Blue Valentine yet?


----------



## atalost

:iagree:God i hope someone give you the answer to when does it get better, because i sure need to know myself!


----------



## spun

So, is it normal for the leaving spouse to lay all the blame for the failed marriage on the left behind spouse? How much shouldering of blame is too much?

I guess I always viewed marriage as complex dynamic between two people, making it difficult to say the successes or failures can be attributed solely to one or the other.

I loved my ex deeply. But, I did do some crummy things throughout my marriage (although I always remained faithful, and never sought validation outside of my marriage). I hold a great deal of guilt for not waking up sooner, before it was too late to keep my family together. Yet, I continue to struggle with my stbxw's inability to communicate her dissatisfaction in a clear way. I think that the inability of her to accept some responsibility is what prevents the possibility of R for us. There's no validation or acknowledgment of what I have said.

For me anyway, this has been one of the most difficult aspects of breaking up...there is no closure.


----------



## Conrad

For someone to screw up enough nerve to walk away, they have to harden their heart considerably.

Blameshifting is usually part of that equation.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> For someone to screw up enough nerve to walk away, they have to harden their heart considerably.
> 
> Blameshifting is usually part of that equation.


So why is it that some of us are so willing to accept our faults?

I think it may be that kind of humility that gets us into relationships that are not sustainable in the long term.


----------



## jdlash

spun said:


> So why is it that some of us are so willing to accept our faults?
> 
> I think it may be that kind of humility that gets us into relationships that are not sustainable in the long term.


We should accept our faults and better our own lives. The problem is accepting the others faults and making them our own.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So why is it that some of us are so willing to accept our faults?
> 
> I think it may be that kind of humility that gets us into relationships that are not sustainable in the long term.


Humility is a good thing.

Self-esteem issues are something else.

Many of us do not have the first, but have the 2nd - in spades.


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> For someone to screw up enough nerve to walk away, they have to harden their heart considerably.
> 
> Blameshifting is usually part of that equation.


Thank you for this, Conrad.

Spun, I have the same guilt over not realizing the problems were deeper than I thought. I need to come to a place where I can accept that there is absolutely nothing I can do about water that has passed under the bridge, except beat myself up over it. That is self-destructive and I don't want that destruction. Problem is I can't see any way out of it. Maybe time and distance for both will take that guilt away for both you and me.

As for closure, my psych told me that there might never be any. Like you, that is something I don't know how to deal with. I guess its just another heartache our ex's have left us with.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Humility is a good thing.
> 
> Self-esteem issues are something else.
> 
> Many of us do not have the first, but have the 2nd - in spades.


For me, I guess it is low self esteem. I am always worrying whether what I am doing is good enough. I certainly look for validation outside myself. I also worry about how getting my needs met might impact other people.

I think this is why my stbx wife fell for me in the first place. She saw me as driven to push the envelope professionally. She also saw me as more sensitive than men she had been in prior relationships with. 

Over time, I think the qualities that brought us together are what drove us apart. She took advantage of my lack of confidence to take control of our marriage. And, over time I grew more and more frustrated with not being able to have a voice. I also began detaching emotionally as a defense to limit my frustration with being devalued.

Sad stuff. Wish I saw this sooner. It's amazing how hard it is to see it when you are in it.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> For me, I guess it is low self esteem. I am always worrying whether what I am doing is good enough. I certainly look for validation outside myself. I also worry about how getting my needs met might impact other people.
> 
> I think this is why my stbx wife fell for me in the first place. She saw me as driven to push the envelope professionally. She also saw me as more sensitive than men she had been in prior relationships with.
> 
> Over time, I think the qualities that brought us together are what drove us apart. She took advantage of my lack of confidence to take control of our marriage. And, over time I grew more and more frustrated with not being able to have a voice. I also began detaching emotionally as a defense to limit my frustration with being devalued.
> 
> Sad stuff. Wish I saw this sooner. It's amazing how hard it is to see it when you are in it.


The first paragraph you wrote describes me to a tee. How do we learn to find validation within ourselves?


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> The first paragraph you wrote describes me to a tee. How do we learn to find validation within ourselves?


Wish I had the answer for you frost.

I am still having a heck of time detaching myself.

She appeared last night in a dream for the first time since we separated.

I slipped up and sent her a text saying how I wished this was all a bad dream, and that I would wake up.

She texted back later. Had nothing to do with my text. She was complaining about how she does not have a steady income and hopefully she could make enough in commission to support herself. I think the reality is sinking in some now. I was going to text back "your choice", but I did not bother.

It's all been pretty surreal. I went off on sabbatical and never came back to my home. 

We had issues for sure. But she's no doubt flipped her lid. I don't think she has really processed the full extent of what she has pushed forward. I guess its kind of hard to see clearly when you've been focusing on a fantasy relationship for the past six months.


----------



## ImStillHere

Frostflower said:


> The first paragraph you wrote describes me to a tee. How do we learn to find validation within ourselves?


It begins by accepting that you are an incredible individual and knowing that _you are more than enough_.

Of course, it's easier said than done. But, essentially, all of these things come from a strong sense of self-esteem and self-worth. IC can help you with this. 

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Frostflower

ImStillHere said:


> It begins by accepting that you are an incredible individual and knowing that _you are more than enough_.
> 
> Of course, it's easier said than done. But, essentially, all of these things come from a strong sense of self-esteem and self-worth. IC can help you with this.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


Guess I'd better keep going the!

You're right, of course. Just seems like a long road.


----------



## spun

I know that letting go is the key to me moving on and healing. I just can't seem to do it even after how badly she has treated me.

Maybe it's the continual contact because of the kids. The back and forth about finances. She really struck a nerve when she dropped me a text where she slipped in a comment about how she hopes she can make enough to support herself (100% commission employed).

I know its unhealthy, but I am concerned she is not taking the time to make a careful decision. I hate not being able to get her out of my mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

>>I am concerned she is not taking the time to make a careful decision<<

Whose decision is it?

Are you her father?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> >>I am concerned she is not taking the time to make a careful decision<<
> 
> Whose decision is it?
> 
> Are you her father?


Clearly her decision.

I may not be her father, but she is someone I spent 18 years with. 

So in reality. She has spent more time living with me than her Dad.

That makes it hard not to have some concern about the way she is proceeding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Clearly her decision.
> 
> I may not be her father, but she is someone I spent 18 years with.
> 
> So in reality. She has spent more time living with me than her Dad.
> 
> That makes it hard not to have some concern about the way she is proceeding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


spun,

Let it go.

Those thoughts are clingy, needy, and paternal.

She needs to crash if she is ever to see your value.

Don't you understand this?


----------



## spun

Yes, I see it. Everything is just such a damn mess, and it doesn't need to be. 

Seriously makes me want to puke that she can blow up everything we built like this.

She is acting like a selfish teenage girl. And right now it's easy to keep up the act.

Nothing has changed in her daily life. Still living in our house, same daily routine, and she gets to communicate with posOM unimpeaded. 

It's got to come crumbling down at some point, right?



Conrad said:


> spun,
> 
> Let it go.
> 
> Those thoughts are clingy, needy, and paternal.
> 
> She needs to crash if she is ever to see your value.
> 
> Don't you understand this?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes, I see it. Everything is just such a damn mess, and it doesn't need to be.
> 
> Seriously makes me want to puke that she can blow up everything we built like this.
> 
> She is acting like a selfish teenage girl. And right now it's easy to keep up the act.
> 
> Nothing has changed in her daily life. Still living in our house, same daily routine, and she gets to communicate with posOM unimpeaded.
> 
> It's got to come crumbling down at some point, right?
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


100% commission in this economy puts her ability to pay her way at the mercy of buyers.

That doesn't sound good to me.

Detach and let it happen.

Remove your focus from her.

What are you learning in IC?

Tell me about it.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> 100% commission in this economy puts her ability to pay her way at the mercy of buyers.
> 
> What are you learning in IC?
> 
> Tell me about it.


I am learning that the emotional part and logical part of my brain are not well connected.

That I need to find a way to let go of her and her choices.

That I need to learn to love myself.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I am learning that the emotional part and logical part of my brain are not well connected.
> 
> That I need to find a way to let go of her and her choices.
> 
> That I need to learn to love myself.


They're not connected for ANY of us.

Until we work on it.

Welcome to the club.


----------



## spun

Well, break out the 2 x 4's. I just asked my stbxw if she has any interest in meeting for coffee. She responded that she has appointments today and tomorrow, but maybe Monday, depending on what I want to talk about!

I know she has no interest in working towards reconciliation now, or maybe ever at all. But, do I set something up and say not a word about our relationship? If we were by some strange miracle able to turn this mess around, it would have to start with baby steps and simply being comfortable around each other again.

Is it so wrong to simply want to look her in the eyes and have a conversation?


----------



## Conrad




----------



## spun

Yes, I am a mess.


----------



## Matt1720

Conrad said:


> They're not connected for ANY of us.
> 
> Until we work on it.
> 
> Welcome to the club.


very true,

i remember one specific example a little while ago where stbxw was upset and i felt uneasy. Then i realized it was the exact same feeling from my childhood, and understood I did not need to "own" someone elses emotions. 

Without IC, I would still be feeling others emotions as if i "deserved" them.


----------



## Matt1720

spun said:


> Well, break out the 2 x 4's. I just asked my stbxw if she has any interest in meeting for coffee. She responded that she has appointments today and tomorrow, but maybe Monday, *depending on what I want to talk about!*


really?


----------



## spun

Matt1720 said:


> really?


A beauty of a response isn't it?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> A beauty of a response isn't it?


Wants you to chase her.

Don't bother getting back to her on it.

You're just running towards the football that Lucy is going to remove just as you try to kick it.

There's much truth in cartoons.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Wants you to chase her.
> 
> Don't bother getting back to her on it.
> 
> You're just running towards the football that Lucy is going to remove just as you try to kick it.
> 
> There's much truth in cartoons.


I don't think she wants me to chase her. She's done. Then again, maybe she gets some kind of satisfaction out of rejecting me.

I just have no dignity with her. Never have. 

She calls all the shots always has. 

I get pissy for her passive-agressively running rough shot over me. 

Then "I" end up being the problem. 

It's quite the trap.

And, I end up in it all the time.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I don't think she wants me to chase her. She's done. Then again, maybe she gets some kind of satisfaction out of rejecting me.
> 
> I just have no dignity with her. Never have.
> 
> She calls all the shots always has.
> 
> I get pissy for her passive-agressively running rough shot over me.
> 
> Then "I" end up being the problem.
> 
> It's quite the trap.
> 
> And, I end up in it all the time.


And you end up apologizing for whatever she has done.

How is it possible we know all these things?

Seriously... try to laugh.

You'll feel better.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> And you end up apologizing for whatever she has done.


Like for putting her in a space where she had an affair.

Damn it!

Oh, to have it to do over again...


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Like for putting her in a space where she had an affair.
> 
> Damn it!
> 
> Oh, to have it to do over again...


You should have seen my face the first time someone laid this out for me.

Then, we'd have another discussion and BINGO - there I was apologizing for what she did.

:scratchhead:


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You should have seen my face the first time someone laid this out for me.
> 
> Then, we'd have another discussion and BINGO - there I was apologizing for what she did.
> 
> :scratchhead:


So were married once before your current marriage, Conrad?

If so, how did you get through your divorce? Sure seems like we have made similar mistakes in our relationships.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So were married once before your current marriage, Conrad?
> 
> If so, how did you get through your divorce? Sure seems like we have made similar mistakes in our relationships.


This particular insight came during this marriage.

You see spun, I have no insights other than those I've gained from counseling and from being in the same relationship crucible you now find yourself.

I reached out to people here who possessed portions of the ideas and concepts that I now write about.

We teach that which we most need to learn.

I want you to think about something else.

If you've ever paid attention to Bible stories, the emotional issues encountered in the time of Christ are EXACTLY the same as those we encounter today.

My friend Michael used to say, "Nothing changes but the date"

Well, technology has certainly modernized us intellectually.

There has been no "modernizing" force on our emotions.

They are as primitive as ever.


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> This particular insight came during this marriage.
> 
> You see spun, I have no insights other than those I've gained from counseling and from being in the same relationship crucible you now find yourself.
> 
> I reached out to people here who possessed portions of the ideas and concepts that I now write about.
> 
> We teach that which we most need to learn.
> 
> I want you to think about something else.
> 
> If you've ever paid attention to Bible stories, the emotional issues encountered in the time of Christ are EXACTLY the same as those we encounter today.
> 
> My friend Michael used to say, "Nothing changes but the date"
> 
> Well, technology has certainly modernized us intellectually.
> 
> There has been no "modernizing" force on our emotions.
> 
> They are as primitive as ever.


Plus ça change, plus ça reste le même. Yet we never seem to learn.

I think emotions come from the primitive part of the brain, the same part that controls breathing and all that other stuff vital to life. i don't think there's a force that could be created that could change them., and I think if we tried we'd end up destroying ourselves. We need to learn how to work with them.

Spun, you say that you keep ending up in the trap. Perhaps you need to seriously question the worth of the bait and its attraction for you.


----------



## Conrad

Frostflower said:


> Plus ça change, plus ça reste le même. Yet we never seem to learn.
> 
> I think emotions come from the primitive part of the brain, the same part that controls breathing and all that other stuff vital to life. i don't think there's a force that could be created that could change them., and I think if we tried we'd end up destroying ourselves. We need to learn how to work with them.
> 
> Spun, you say that you keep ending up in the trap. Perhaps you need to seriously question the worth of the bait and its attraction for you.


Frost,

The reason "explaining and convincing" doesn't work is because attraction and love are emotions - and are largely subconscious.

People will TELL YOU they feel one way and DO the exact opposite. Oftentimes, they don't even mean to lie.

That why I pound the table and - literally - scream OBSERVE.

Do not listen to what they say, WATCH what they DO!


----------



## Matt1720

and even then, watch what they do over a long period of time.

behaviors that aren't reinforced by congruence between emotion and thought tend to fall off quickly. emotions win out in the end.


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> Frost,
> 
> The reason "explaining and convincing" doesn't work is because attraction and love are emotions - and are largely subconscious.
> 
> People will TELL YOU they feel one way and DO the exact opposite. Oftentimes, they don't even mean to lie.
> 
> That why I pound the table and - literally - scream OBSERVE.
> 
> Do not listen to what they say, WATCH what they DO!





Matt1720 said:


> and even then, watch what they do over a long period of time.
> 
> behaviors that aren't reinforced by congruence between emotion and thought tend to fall off quickly. emotions win out in the end.


Sorry, having a rough day and trouble following things. I get what you both said and I agree, but I've lost the plot. How does fit with what I said?


----------



## spun

Wow, what a morning. I awoke to find one of my vehicle's missing from the parking lot in front of my apartment. Phone the police to report it stolen.

Took the kids to the family house, front door was wide open, no stbxw anywhere in sight

I rang her. Voicemail of course. I leave a message asking where she is, explaining that the front door of the home was open and told her about my truck.

She called back shortly. She was at the mechanics. Told me that her car would not start last night. She had it towed and took a cab, used a spare set of keys and helped herself to my vehicle. No message that she took it, said she did not want to wake me and the kids! 

I was ticked and my voice showed it. No profanity, no name calling. Regardless, she accused me of yelling. Only offered an apology after I told her she owed me one!

We had a sit down discussion. Talked about a lot of stuff. Setting and violation of boundaries. Relationship issues came up too. 

I told her I don't want a divorce. I then asked her if she really wanted to be divorced. She said no. We talked a little about whether we might be together in the future. No solid yes or no. Just "I know I don't want to be with you today, or tomorrow". 

She expressed emotions about not seeing the man she needs me to be. I'm not confident and together. She does not see a happy me when I am around, and said why would she want to be with a guy like that? I can see where she is coming from. I asked her to put herself in my shoes, and how would she feel. She side steps the whole issue. I guess I get no points for being the one who was turned completely upside down...

Stroked her hair before she went inside and I told her I miss our quiet evenings at home together. She did not say anything, the look in her said that she misses those times too. We both cried. At which point she quickly shut down the conversation and went inside to work.

I still love her and I am more confused and a bigger mess than ever.


----------



## Conrad

>>I asked her to put herself in my shoes, and how would she feel. She side steps the whole issue. I guess I get no points for being the one who was turned completely upside down...<<

This is an appeal to victim status - don't you think?

No wonder she shut you down.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> >>I asked her to put herself in my shoes, and how would she feel. She side steps the whole issue. I guess I get no points for being the one who was turned completely upside down...<<
> 
> This is an appeal to victim status - don't you think?
> 
> No wonder she shut you down.


Right. I guess she needs to play that role.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Right. I guess she needs to play that role.


No, you shouldn't let her play it either.

BUT.. the key point is this....

Two people arguing for victim status has a single term that describes that discussion very very well.

It's called DRAMA


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> No, you shouldn't let her play it either.
> 
> BUT.. the key point is this....
> 
> Two people arguing for victim status has a single term that describes that discussion very very well.
> 
> It's called DRAMA


So what do I do then when she starts laying on things that I did in fact do in the marriage?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So what do I do then when she start laying on things that I did in fact in the marriage?


"I'm not ok with where this discussion is headed"


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> "I'm not ok with where this discussion is headed"


Then I am invalidating her feelings.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Then I am invalidating her feelings.


Not at all.

You're just letting her know she's not going to dump the entire thing on your head.

And, you're doing it without getting angry.

In fact, "I don't like where this discussion is headed" is just the type of thing the man she WANTS to see would say.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> She expressed emotions about not seeing the man she needs me to be. I'm not confident and together.


Go with what Conrad said.


----------



## spun

spun said:


> Wow, what a morning. I awoke to find one of my vehicle's missing from the parking lot in front of my apartment. Phone the police to report it stolen.
> 
> Took the kids to the family house, front door was wide open, no stbxw anywhere in sight
> 
> I rang her. Voicemail of course. I leave a message asking where she is, explaining that the front door of the home was open and told her about my truck.
> 
> She called back shortly. She was at the mechanics. Told me that her car would not start last night. She had it towed and took a cab, used a spare set of keys and helped herself to my vehicle. No message that she took it, said she did not want to wake me and the kids!
> 
> I was ticked and my voice showed it. No profanity, no name calling. Regardless, she accused me of yelling. Only offered an apology after I told her she owed me one!


Unbelievable, just listened to a voicemail where her phone unknowingly dialed mine. 5 minute conversation of stbxw taking my vehicle in the middle of the night with posOM. Wonderful.

She insists we "live separate lives". What part of taking a vehicle of mine while I am sleeping is living separately?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Unbelievable, just listened to a voicemail where her phone unknowingly dialed mine. 5 minute conversation of stbxw taking my vehicle in the middle of the night with posOM. Wonderful.
> 
> She insists we "live separate lives". What part of taking a vehicle of mine while I am sleeping is living separately?


The entitled princess part.

Did you tell her you are not ok with that behavior?


----------



## justabovewater

Wow, just finally took the time to read through this thread, and I apologize for just now jumping into it to reply. So much of what you have talked about is so familiar, fresh and raw.

The inability to detach is killing me. I just want to be able to let go and don't know how. It takes so much self-control to not send him a text just to see how he's doing. Almost every thought revolves around him. 

He blames me for purshing him away all these years, which I entirely shoulder the blame for. The guilt is overwhelming at times and I don't know how to let it go. I blame him for not speaking up and letting me know he was suffering. He says I should've known. There's so much I didn't do, didn't know to do and yet he blames me. 

Why do I still love him so much? Why do I want him to come back? It's been over a year and I'm not moving forward. The tears still come with no warning. The emotions are still so back and forth, up and down.

Again, I apologize for jumping in the middle of your conversation and bumping it back a bit in topic, but our scenarios just sound so similar.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> The entitled princess part.
> 
> Did you tell her you are not ok with that behavior?


Yes, I said I'm not ok with her taking my vehicles without asking, especially to support her and her affair partner.

She denied he was in town. Repeated that she got stuck at the movies all by herself.

I played her back the voicemail. She did not even flinch.

Said its her vehicle too since it is on a joint insurance policy.

I reminded her that it is titled solely to me, and I owned before our marriage.

I told her if she pulls something like this again, I will press charges against her.

She told me I was now harassing her and to leave the house, so she does not have to report me for harassment.

Of course, she quickly resumed the role of victim again.


----------



## Frostflower

justabovewater said:


> Wow, just finally took the time to read through this thread, and I apologize for just now jumping into it to reply. So much of what you have talked about is so familiar, fresh and raw.
> 
> The inability to detach is killing me. I just want to be able to let go and don't know how. It takes so much self-control to not send him a text just to see how he's doing. Almost every thought revolves around him.
> 
> He blames me for purshing him away all these years, which I entirely shoulder the blame for. The guilt is overwhelming at times and I don't know how to let it go. I blame him for not speaking up and letting me know he was suffering. He says I should've known. There's so much I didn't do, didn't know to do and yet he blames me.
> 
> Why do I still love him so much? Why do I want him to come back? It's been over a year and I'm not moving forward. The tears still come with no warning. The emotions are still so back and forth, up and down.
> 
> Again, I apologize for jumping in the middle of your conversation and bumping it back a bit in topic, but our scenarios just sound so similar.


Just, do you have a thread of your own? If so, what is it called? If not start one. I want to respond, but don't want to hijack Spun's thread.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes, I said I'm not ok with her taking my vehicles without asking, especially to support her and her affair partner.
> 
> She denied he was in town. Repeated that she got stuck at the movies all by herself.
> 
> I played her back the voicemail. She did not even flinch.
> 
> Said its her vehicle too since it is on a joint insurance policy.
> 
> I reminded her that it is titled solely to me, and I owned before our marriage.
> 
> I told her if she pulls something like this again, I will press charges against her.
> 
> She told me I was now harassing her and to leave the house, so she does not have to report me for harassment.
> 
> Of course, she quickly resumed the role of victim again.


So convincing in their lies.

Even when caught red-handed.

Have you told me of her childhood?


----------



## spun

justabovewater said:


> Wow, just finally took the time to read through this thread, and I apologize for just now jumping into it to reply. So much of what you have talked about is so familiar, fresh and raw.
> 
> The inability to detach is killing me. I just want to be able to let go and don't know how. It takes so much self-control to not send him a text just to see how he's doing. Almost every thought revolves around him.
> 
> He blames me for purshing him away all these years, which I entirely shoulder the blame for. The guilt is overwhelming at times and I don't know how to let it go. I blame him for not speaking up and letting me know he was suffering. He says I should've known. There's so much I didn't do, didn't know to do and yet he blames me.
> 
> Why do I still love him so much? Why do I want him to come back? It's been over a year and I'm not moving forward. The tears still come with no warning. The emotions are still so back and forth, up and down.
> 
> Again, I apologize for jumping in the middle of your conversation and bumping it back a bit in topic, but our scenarios just sound so similar.


Perfectly ok to jump in here. We are all her to share and learn.

You are in love with idea of what he once was and what you hoped your marriage would always be.

Also, you do not love yourself. Because if you did you would not "love" someone who treats you like he does.

Your horribly codependent. So am I.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> So convincing in their lies.
> 
> Even when caught red-handed.
> 
> Have you told me of her childhood?


To be honest, seems like a pretty normal childhood. Although her Dad did split when she went away to college. 

I get the impression her Dad put her on a pedestal growing up, and certainly after he left.


----------



## justabovewater

Frost, I've got many, but I've taken this one to:

What the heck is wrong with me? 

Still not great at Navigating TAM!


----------



## Frostflower

justabovewater said:


> Frost, I've got many, but I've taken this one to:
> 
> What the heck is wrong with me?
> 
> Still not great at Navigating TAM!


Thanks. I will look for it.


----------



## spun

I'll never get it, so why do I try?

stbxw told me yesterday that in the last six months her behavior was out of character (pursuing an affair), but that she will never accept ANY responsibility for getting our marriage into a state where she felt the need to walk away with posOM.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> I'll never get it, so why do I try?
> 
> stbxw told me yesterday that in the last six months her behavior was out of character (pursuing an affair), but that she will never accept ANY responsibility for getting our marriage into a state where she felt the need to walk away with posOM.
> 
> I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!


Well, that's a lovely example of blameshifting. I broke our marriage vows. I behaved immorally. But it's all your fault.

Right!


----------



## spun

Well excuse me...went to pick my kids up tonight so stbxw could go to book club. Was not my not night to have them. But, hey went ahead in good faith.

Had a tough day and was a little impatient and sighed while she was packing up things.

She said it was a reminder of what she had to endure from me.

Well, every time I pull in the driveway of my home I am reminded of how she left for another man while I was abroad, lied about it, and how I never returned to my home.

I was reprimanded for that statement, and changing the tone of my voice.

Well, fvck you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Well excuse me...went to pick my kids up tonight so stbxw could go to book club. Was not my not night to have them. But, hey went ahead in good faith.
> 
> Had a tough day and was a little impatient and sighed while she was packing up things.
> 
> She said it was a reminder of what she had to endure from me.
> 
> Well, every time I pull in the driveway of my home I am reminded of how she left for another man while I was abroad, lied about it, and how I never returned to my home.
> 
> I was reprimanded for that statement, and changing the tone of my voice.
> 
> Well, fvck you!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spun, you need to understand these few simple rules:

Do not sigh.

Do not blink, sniff or snort.

Do not breathe.

And all will be well in entitled princess land.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Spun, you need to understand these few simple rules:
> 
> Do not sigh.
> 
> Do not blink, sniff or snort.
> 
> Do not breathe.
> 
> And all will be well in entitled princess land.


Seriously. She set a very difficult set of standards to live by.

No flexibility. Double standards galore.

Still, I am a mess over our life together ending.

Emotions trump logic, yet again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Seriously. She set a very difficult set of standards to live by.
> 
> No flexibility. Double standards galore.
> 
> Still, I am a mess over our life together ending.
> 
> Emotions trump logic, yet again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you rent the movie yet?


----------



## spun

No, the local blockbuster closed and I don't have net flix. Just need to find some way to download it from the web I suppose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> No, the local blockbuster closed and I don't have net flix. Just need to find some way to download it from the web I suppose.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think Amazon has got it available for download.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> I think Amazon has got it available for download.


Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

So here I go for the kid switch with stbxw. I can feel the anxiety building already.

It is so difficult to do this without wanting to try to ge her to come back.

I know that's a fruitless endeavor. I just don't understand why a chance to have an intact family is not on the radar.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So here I go for the kid switch with stbxw. I can feel the anxiety building already.
> 
> It is so difficult to do this without wanting to try to ge her to come back.
> 
> I know that's a fruitless endeavor. I just don't understand why a chance to have an intact family is not on the radar.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Download the movie.


----------



## spun

How the hell did I geT this way? There's no reason I should want to be with a women who acts like this. Does she really believe that this ass-kissing clown has any investment in her other than getting her into bed?

I need to detach. I need to let go. But I don't know how.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> How the hell did I geT this way? There's no reason I should want to be with a women who acts like this. Does she really believe that this ass-kissing clown has any investment in her other than getting her into bed?
> 
> I need to detach. I need to let go. But I don't know how.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What was your relationship like with your mother?


----------



## spun

I can talk to her about anything, but it is at times can be a bit turbulent. She has a controlling side, and is a very strong woman who openly expresses her opinions, sometimes without much restraint.

I'm much closer to her than my Dad. Though in recent years my relationship with him has grown much deeper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I can talk to her about anything, but it is at times can be a bit turbulent. She has a controlling side, and is a very strong woman who openly expresses her opinions, sometimes without much restraint.
> 
> I'm much closer to her than my Dad. Though in recent years my relationship with him has grown much deeper.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Felt like you had to "get it right" to earn your mother's love?

Strong desire to please her?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Felt like you had to "get it right" to earn your mother's love?
> 
> Strong desire to please her?


I guess so. She clearly loves me dearly. Lots of deep conversations. Very supportive in me making my own choices and my own way. However, there was not often lots of praise.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I guess so. She clearly loves me dearly. Lots of deep conversations. Very supportive in me making my own choices and my own way. However, there was not often lots of praise.


And, you now see how you tried to earn your wife's love and praise in exactly that same way.

It establishes a "parent/child" (mother/son) type of relationship with a woman who you hope will be attracted to you - and do all sorts of things she'd never want to do with her son.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> And, you now see how you tried to earn your wife's love and praise in exactly that same way.
> 
> It establishes a "parent/child" (mother/son) type of relationship with a woman who you hope will be attracted to you - and do all sorts of things she'd never want to do with her son.


Interesting insight. So now what the hell do I do?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Interesting insight. So now what the hell do I do?


I had the same question.

You go to counseling armed with this insight and you learn how to love yourself.

Because right now.... you are looking for her to provide the love you feel you lack. Confident, sexy, attractive men radiate that love from inside themselves.

The reaction you will get from the world (including her) will be 180 degrees different the day you grasp this.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> I had the same question.
> 
> You go to counseling armed with this insight and you learn how to love yourself.
> 
> Because right now.... you are looking for her to provide the love you feel you lack. Confident, sexy, attractive men radiate that love from inside themselves.
> 
> The reaction you will get from the world (including her) will be 180 degrees different the day you grasp this.


Depressing. I feel like a failure as a man. And, she in some way "preyed" upon my child status to maneuver and control me? Maybe this is all my fault after all.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Depressing. I feel like a failure as a man. Maybe this is all my fault after all.


You ever hear me telling people to forgive themselves? It's the most important gift you can muster for your soul.

Why should you be accountable for something you simply did not know? You wouldn't treat ANYONE else that way.

I had the same discussion with Frostflower. She felt like she had not handled her separation "right".

She's such a compassionate soul. She wouldn't allow ANYONE else on this board to beat themselves up over something they didn't know. Why would you do that to you?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> She wouldn't allow ANYONE else on this board to beat themselves up over something they didn't know. Why would you do that to you?


Guilt over not being able to keep my marriage and family together.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Guilt over not being able to keep my marriage and family together.


When you had no earthly idea how to do it?

When your emotional compass wasn't dialed into the right settings through no fault of your own?

Now, I WILL blame you if - even after all this suffering and agony - you don't have the desire to get on this and fix it.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> When you had no earthly idea how to do it?
> 
> When your emotional compass wasn't dialed into the right settings through no fault of your own?
> 
> Now, I WILL blame you if - even after all this suffering and agony - you don't have the desire to get on this and fix it.


I do want to fix it. You see the thing that is so frustrating about this is that we have been to MC twice the past, and the counselors never seemed to pick up on this. Things would get better for a time between us. Then we'd be right back in the same dance, where I would end up being blamed, even for things that she had done.

A day late and a dime short for this particular relationship, I suppose.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I do want to fix it. You see the thing that is so frustrating about this is that we have been to MC twice the past, and the counselors never seemed to pick up on this. Things would get better for a time between us. Then we'd be right back in the same dance, where I would end up being blamed, even for things that she had done.
> 
> A day late and a dime short for this particular relationship, I suppose.


You have no way of knowing that until you fix it.

Most marriage counseling is useless. It never gets to the core issues like we do here.

People find what they need to work on and that only "really" works individually. If your partner hears about "your issues" in session, way too easy to blame.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You have no way of knowing that until you fix it.
> 
> Most marriage counseling is useless. It never gets to the core issues like we do here.
> 
> People find what they need to work on and that only "really" works individually. If your partner hears about "your issues" in session, way too easy to blame.


So now I just work on myself in IC while she continues with posOM, and see if she files for D in the interim, or somehow sees me as more attractive than posOM.

Wonderful is life.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So now I just work on myself in IC while she continues with posOM, and see if she files for D in the interim, or somehow sees me as more attractive than posOM.
> 
> Wonderful is life.


You have no control over what she does.

I would not pay for mediation, but you give defiant people what they want. If she's willing to shoulder the financial burden of the divorce, there's nothing to be accomplished by arguing.

Remember, the focus is on YOUR healing - not on what she's doing.


----------



## Conrad

Did you expose the affair to posOMW?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Did you expose the affair to posOMW?


No don't know who she is since he lives out of state.

He has also been in the middle of his own divorce for the past year.

But who the hell knows. That's what my wayward wife says.

And, we already know what her word is worth.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> No don't know who she is since he lives out of state.
> 
> He has also been in the middle of his own divorce for the past year.
> 
> But who the hell knows. That's what my wayward wife says.
> 
> And, we already know what her word is worth.


I'll be willing to wager "his divorce" story is a lie.

Likely a lie he is telling her.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> I'll be willing to wager "his divorce" story is a lie.
> 
> Likely a lie he is telling her.


I would not be surprised. So how do I find posOMW?

And, if it is a lie. Where do I go with such information?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I would not be surprised. So how do I find posOMW?
> 
> And, if it is a lie. Where do I go with such information?


Cell phones
Email
Texts
Private detectives
Voice Activated Recorders

I'm not the best at advising this.

If you want to start a little thread in Coping with Infidelity section, we have many valiant warriors there who know all the latest snooping methods.

Once you get the identity, giving the info to his wife can be as easy as a Fedex letter.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Cell phones
> Email
> Texts
> Private detectives
> Voice Activated Recorders
> 
> I'm not the best at advising this.
> 
> If you want to start a little thread in Coping with Infidelity section, we have many valiant warriors there who know all the latest snooping methods.
> 
> Once you get the identity, giving the info to his wife can be as easy as a Fedex letter.


What's the point at this point? Seems like this will just create more of the "them" against the world mentality which seems to have with posOM...they are both victims of dysfunctional marriages...words straight out from my stbxw's mouth.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> What's the point at this point? Seems like this will just create more of the "them" against the world mentality which they already seem to have.


Because she's in the fog of a long-distance affair.

She isn't able to see what she's really doing.

posOM makes her feel "young again" and she's vital and energetic.

Of course, once she finds out that he actually farts, has his own issues, may not be thoughtful, etc., she'll be so far down the road that she'll be unable to get back to what she should really value.

Keep this in mind.

Doormats let their wives walk on them.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Of course, once she finds out that he actually farts, has his own issues, may not be thoughtful, etc., she'll be so far down the road that she'll be unable to get back to what she should really value.
> 
> Keep this in mind.
> 
> Doormats let their wives walk on them.


So, your predicting a crash back into reality? Maybe some genuine remorse?

It's exactly this fog phenomenon that keeps me hanging on, hoping she will come to.

That leads to me letting her walk on me out of my own guilt for what I have done in the marriage.

In our case, I think her affair is consequence, and not the primary cause for the dysfunctional state we have arrived at today.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So, your predicting a crash back into reality? Maybe some genuine remorse?
> 
> It's exactly this fog phenomenon that keeps me hanging on, hoping she will come to.
> 
> That leads to me letting her walk on me out of my own guilt for what I have done in the marriage.
> 
> In our case, I think her affair is consequence, and not the primary cause for the dysfunctional state we have arrived at today.


Expose the Affair

Expose to posOMW, family, friends, everyone.

Makes it very difficult for them to continue.


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> You ever hear me telling people to forgive themselves? It's the most important gift you can muster for your soul.
> 
> Why should you be accountable for something you simply did not know? You wouldn't treat ANYONE else that way.
> 
> I had the same discussion with Frostflower. She felt like she had not handled her separation "right".
> 
> She's such a compassionate soul. She wouldn't allow ANYONE else on this board to beat themselves up over something they didn't know. Why would you do that to you?


Good question, Spun. Would you allow me to beat myself up for not fighting the OW for my H when I didn't know there was an OW? No? Then why are you beating yourself up for something you didn't know?

(Aww, thanks for the nice words, Conrad!)



spun said:


> Guilt over not being able to keep my marriage and family together.


It was all your fault? You are solely responsible for the health and survival of your marriage? What a terrible burden to bear!

For your part, forgive thyself. For her part, forgive her. Unless you do, you will never be able to move forward.



spun said:


> Things would get better for a time between us. Then we'd be right back in the same dance, where I would end up being blamed, even for things that she had done.
> 
> Interesting you compare it to a dance. There is a book titled "The Dance of Anger' by Harriet Lerner (Amazon has it.) It is written for women, but I think it may be helpful for you. She talks about how, in our relationships, we fall into these dance routines which, we repeat over and over. I say to my daughter, "Empty the dishwasher." She replies, "In a minute." I reply. "Now!" She gets mad and it escalates into a huge issue. In the book, Lerner talks about how the change the dance into something more constructive and healthy.
> 
> The techniques could be useful when you start 'dancing' with your wife.


It's exactly this fog phenomenon that keeps me hanging on, hoping she will come to.
[/QUOTE]

Remember, sometimes the things that come out of the fog and cold and slimy.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Expose the Affair
> 
> Expose to posOMW, family, friends, everyone.
> 
> Makes it very difficult for them to continue.


Ok, so I have posOM sister in laws phone number? Now what?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Ok, so I have posOM sister in laws phone number? Now what?


Call her and tell her you're trying to reach him.

If she asks why, tell her you're an old school friend.

This is war.

Do what you have to do.

You would prefer his home number (landline)

If you get a number (cell or otherwise), do a reverse look up on the internet and find out where it's located.

Be prepared to go there.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Call her and tell her you're trying to reach him.
> 
> If she asks why, tell her you're an old school friend.
> 
> This is war.
> 
> Do what you have to do.
> 
> You would prefer his home number (landline)
> 
> If you get a number (cell or otherwise), do a reverse look up on the internet and find out where it's located.
> 
> Be prepared to go there.


It's not him I need to get to. I had his number months ago. I need a way to get to his w/stbxw.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> It's not him I need to get to. I had his number months ago. I need a way to get to his w/stbxw.


Tell her you're an old school friend of hers.

It's about class reunion information and you're searching for her.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Tell her you're an old school friend of hers.
> 
> It's about class reunion information and you're searching for her.


That's a great idea, Conrad. But I don't know the w's name.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> That's a great idea, Conrad. But I don't know the w's name.


OMs' sister-in-law is OMW's sister. Would telling her the sordid story and asking for her help to contact her sister because she also has a right to know, not work? Guess it depends on the relationship between the sisters. You'd soon find out.

Are OM and OMW still living together? If so, you can just call and ask for her. If he answers, just make up an excuse why you need to talk to her. As that is so simple, I assume they don't live togeter. In that case, call him (or get a friend to if the thought of tlking to him makes you sick) says wife entered a draw for a new car a few months ago (so he won't think it odd she put his nuber), but you can't read the name on the ticket. He'll either hand the phone to her or give you her name and number. Who can resist a new car?


----------



## Conrad

spun,

Make this happen.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> spun,
> 
> Make this happen.


Yes. Working on it.

Asked my stbxw what posOMs wife thought about the situation. Got no answer and an immediate subject change and her resuming victim status.

Interesting...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Yes. Working on it.
> 
> Asked my stbxw what posOMs wife thought about the situation. Got no answer and an immediate subject change and her resuming victim status.
> 
> Interesting...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that's in the cheater's manual. Avoid thinking about the innocent victims of what you are doing.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> OMs' sister-in-law is OMW's sister. Would telling her the sordid story and asking for her help to contact her sister because she also has a right to know, not work? Guess it depends on the relationship between the sisters. You'd soon find out.
> 
> Are OM and OMW still living together? If so, you can just call and ask for her. If he answers, just make up an excuse why you need to talk to her. As that is so simple, I assume they don't live togeter. In that case, call him (or get a friend to if the thought of tlking to him makes you sick) says wife entered a draw for a new car a few months ago (so he won't think it odd she put his nuber), but you can't read the name on the ticket. He'll either hand the phone to her or give you her name and number. Who can resist a new car?


Well the phone number I have for SIL is no longer in service. Can't seem to track down OMWs name.

Now what? Seems my ww is long gone anyway. Her latest...She's now suggesting we attend uncoupling therapy. Whatever...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes. Working on it.
> 
> Asked my stbxw what posOMs wife thought about the situation. Got no answer and an immediate subject change and her resuming victim status.
> 
> Interesting...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take the phone number you have and do the "reverse lookup" on the internet.

Something like this:

Reverse Phone Lookup & People Search Powered by Intelius

Find out where he is.

You can zero in from there.


----------



## spun

Did it Conrad, it's a cell and I know the area code is different than the state where he resides.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Did it Conrad, it's a cell and I know the area code is different than the state where he resides.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Any access to phone records?

Does her phone have a GPS?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Any access to phone records?
> 
> Does her phone have a GPS?


No on both counts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> No on both counts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you know how to find the SIL?

How did you get her number?


----------



## spun

Google +. WW has her as a contact. Facebooked and found she is married to someone who must be his brother (based on tagged photos).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Google +. WW has her as a contact. Facebooked and found she is married to someone who must be his brother (based on tagged photos).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you google those names?


----------



## spun

Of course. The question is do I expose to them, or fish for info?

If SIL is google+ friend with my ww, then surely she must know posOM and my ww are together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Of course. The question is do I expose to them, or fish for info?
> 
> If SIL is google+ friend with my ww, then surely she must know posOM and my ww are together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you find out where they are, it greatly increases the chances you can make it difficult for them.

This is what you want.


----------



## spun

Where who are? SIL and B? Or, posOM. I know the towns where both live.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> If you find out where they are, it greatly increases the chances you can make it difficult for them.
> 
> This is what you want.


Ok, so I need to build up enough nerve to call the SIL. What the heck do I say so as to not sound like a crazy stalker to this woman?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Ok, so I need to build up enough nerve to call the SIL. What the heck do I say so as to not sound like a crazy stalker to this woman?


Tell her you're a school friend and looking for OM. You'd like to set up a surprise for him as you're coming in to town and need to speak with his wife.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Tell her you're a school friend and looking for OM. You'd like to set up a surprise for him as you're coming in to town and need to speak with his wife.


The heck with this. Calling is just going to make me look even more pathetic in stbxw's eyes. This has been going on for six months now, she knows that I know, and clearly does not care. She doesn't love me anymore, and it is simple as that.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> The heck with this. Calling is just going to make me look even more pathetic in stbxw's eyes. This has been going on for six months now, she knows that I know, and clearly does not care. She doesn't love me anymore, and it is simple as that.


You've got this wrong.

Exposing the affair will gain you respect.

Right now, you are a SILENT CO-CONSPIRATOR in their treachery.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You've got this wrong.
> 
> Exposing the affair will gain you respect.
> 
> Right now, you are a SILENT CO-CONSPIRATOR in their treachery.


You see Conrad, I already exposed to her friends and family months ago. She just does not give a damn. Now, 5 months later, I start that again? I just can't see how that does not make me look pathetic.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> You see Conrad, I already exposed to her friends and family months ago. She just does not give a damn. Now, 5 months later, I start that again? I just can't see how that does not make me look pathetic.


OMW is a different ballgame.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> OMW is a different ballgame.


Can't get anywhere with these numbers I have been retrieving from the web. Guess I'll just have to settle for not being able to reach posOMW.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Can't get anywhere with these numbers I have been retrieving from the web. Guess I'll just have to settle for not being able to reach posOMW.


Does SIL comment on any Facebook threads?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Does SIL comment on any Facebook threads?


Can't see. Her wall is locked down to non-friends
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Can't see. Her wall is locked down to non-friends
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok - she is friends with your wife.

When she is commenting, "friends with such and such" can comment after her.

Any action there?

People you can google?


----------



## spun

Nope. Googled the heck out of everything. Found a phone number for posOM's mom.

What am I going to do "call his mommy"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Nope. Googled the heck out of everything. Found a phone number for posOM's mom.
> 
> What am I going to do "call his mommy"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would - to get her number.

Damn straight.


----------



## spun

I can't freaking take on more of this crap. EVERY single time it is my turn to take the kids, she either hops a plane to see posOM or posOM ends up being in town here.

I'm done. She is going to miss her flight because I'm leaving town on my own. She can deal with the kids.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I can't freaking take on more of this crap. EVERY single time it is my turn to take the kids, she either hops a plane to see posOM or posOM ends up being in town here.
> 
> I'm done. She is going to miss her flight because I'm leaving town on my own. She can deal with the kids.


Sounds like he's got plenty of money for posOMW to take away.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Sounds like he's got plenty of money for posOMW to take away.


Yes. seems like it.

Just paraded thru the school open house for my kids. stbxw of course wanted me along so she could play nuclear family for the occassion.

When we left she said well "you were out of it, all the other dads were great."

I told her the other dads don't have wives who are hopping the next flight to see their secret boyfriends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Yes. seems like it.
> 
> Just paraded thru the school open house for my kids. stbxw of course wanted me along so she could play nuclear family for the occassion.
> 
> When we left she said well "you were out of it, all the other dads were great."
> 
> I told her the other dads don't have wives who are hopping the next flight to see their secret boyfriends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't leave us in suspense. What did she say to that?


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Don't leave us in suspense. What did she say to that?


My comment to her was met with complete silence. 

I am having a hard time with my self worth now that I can clearly see how she really has thrown me out like a piece of trash.

Trying to make sense of how it all went terribly wrong.

I broke down earlier today when I learned about her long weekend with him.

I need to figure out how to live well, for my own sanity and well being.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> My comment to her was met with complete silence.
> 
> I am having a hard time with my self worth now that I can clearly see how she really has thrown me out like a piece of trash.
> 
> Trying to make sense of how it all went terribly wrong.
> 
> I broke down earlier today when I learned about her long weekend with him.
> 
> I need to figure out how to live well, for my own sanity and well being.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you know his name?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Do you know his name?


Yes. I have his cell number too. posOM knows that I know and does not give a damn.


----------



## gearhead65

spun said:


> Yes. I have his cell number too. posOM knows that I know and does not give a damn.


Yeah, I went and confronted them both about a year ago after an argument with my STBXW. I also pushed her while I was angry during that argument. I sought an IC after that. He lives like 3 miles from my house. Did the whole thing on the front lawn of his home. I tore the situation apart exposed their faults in all of it and how it just can't work. I was shaking most of the time. I then got in my car and left. Would you like to know what happened next?

He screwed her. He held her and told her everything was going to be OK. He warned her that I'm going to try and take her kids away. He then suggested that she file for divorce before I do so she has the upper hand. She came back an hour later grinning ear to ear and satisfied that I had proven my "colors". I was unsafe, horrible, and the enemy.

She then went and did everything he suggested a week later. I found this out during our False R.

Let it go before it burns you alive.


----------



## Conrad

gearhead65 said:


> Yeah, I went and confronted them both about a year ago after an argument with my STBXW. I also pushed her while I was angry during that argument. I sought an IC after that. He lives like 3 miles from my house. Did the whole thing on the front lawn of his home. I tore the situation apart exposed their faults in all of it and how it just can't work. I was shaking most of the time. I then got in my car and left. Would you like to know what happened next?
> 
> He screwed her. He held her and told her everything was going to be OK. He warned her that I'm going to try and take her kids away. He then suggested that she file for divorce before I do so she has the upper hand. She came back an hour later grinning ear to ear and satisfied that I had proven my "colors". I was unsafe, horrible, and the enemy.
> 
> She then went and did everything he suggested a week later. I found this out during our False R.
> 
> Let it go before it burns you alive.


Was he married?

We're not talking about confronting him. That's a fool's errand. He's as screwed up as she is.

We're talking about getting to HIS wife.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Was he married?
> 
> We're not talking about confronting him. That's a fool's errand. He's as screwed up as she is.
> 
> We're talking about getting to HIS wife.


I now know who his "wife" is. I have a work phone for her. So far only voice mail. Need to come up with a crafty voice message so I can get her to call me back. Any ideas?


----------



## gearhead65

The OM for me had been divorced for 2-3 years. I must have misread, sorry for that.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I now know who his "wife" is. I have a work phone for her. So far only voice mail. Need to come up with a crafty voice message so I can get her to call me back. Any ideas?


She a secretary, professional, paralegal, etc.?

Any ideas?


----------



## Conrad

gearhead65 said:


> The OM for me had been divorced for 2-3 years. I must have misread, sorry for that.


No worries.

I'm surprised you didn't knock his teeth out.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> She a secretary, professional, paralegal, etc.?
> 
> Any ideas?


Designer (Professional)


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Designer (Professional)


Like fashion or graphic?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Like fashion or graphic?


Maybe graphic--cosmetics industry
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Maybe graphic--cosmetics industry
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Leave a message that you were referred to her by a mutual acquaintance and that you have some consulting work.

If she's not interested, you'd appreciate a referral to someone else in the business.


----------



## spun

Sweet and sad day all in the same. Took my girls to the pool. They are so pure and beautiful.

Still couldnt help but have those pangs of sadness about what's going on right now.

Dad and the girls at the pool on a saturday . Meanwhile mom is a 1000 miles away living a new parallel life with posOM. 

She will return on Monday, and get back to her Facebook life with neighborhood friends like it never happened.

Life is grand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Sweet and sad day all in the same. Took my girls to the pool. They are so pure and beautiful.
> 
> Still couldnt help but have those pangs of sadness about what's going on right now.
> 
> Dad and the girls at the pool on a saturday . Meanwhile mom is a 1000 miles away living a new parallel life with posOM.
> 
> She will return on Monday, and get back to her Facebook life with neighborhood friends like it never happened.
> 
> Life is grand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Go and look at those sweet little girls. Life IS grand.


----------



## spun

Will she hit any kind of bottom, and if so when?

Would love nothing more than a window in the madness where I might have a fighting chance at putting our family back together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Will she hit any kind of bottom, and if so when?
> 
> Would love nothing more than a window in the madness where I might have a fighting chance at putting our family back together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She won't hit bottom any time soon if you do not contact posOMW

I guarantee it.


----------



## spun

Conrad, I'm trying brother. Part of me does believe they have been estranged for quite some time.

But there is some doubt there too.

I mentioned to stbxw that I contacted posOmW and she told me that posOm was a lifelong philanderer.

She said you don't even know her name. I responded with the name. She said how do you know that?

So maybe some seeds of doubt in her mind now.

I'm still too emotional with her though, no doubt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Conrad, I'm trying brother. Part of me does believe they have been estranged for quite some time.
> 
> But there is some doubt there too.
> 
> I mentioned to stbxw that I contacted posOmW and she told me that posOm was a lifelong philanderer.
> 
> She said you don't even know her name. I responded with the name. She said how do you know that?
> 
> So maybe some seeds of doubt in her mind now.
> 
> I'm still too emotional with her though, no doubt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok - you need to do it tomorrow.

They are plotting their lies/defense right now.

Talk less - do more.


----------



## gearhead65

Just about the only way to have a fighting chance is to get it to end early. The longer it does on the worse it will be for you and your kids. Don't expect that you can somehow control that. I've been trying for over a year. My advise, do what I didn't early. Get her out of the house of her own volition. Once gone change the locks. When she is in the wind on her own, she'll really understand the nature of what she is in. I missed my opportunity to do the same. I probably would have made a difference.


----------



## spun

gearhead65 said:


> Just about the only way to have a fighting chance is to get it to end early. The longer it does on the worse it will be for you and your kids. Don't expect that you can somehow control that. I've been trying for over a year. My advise, do what I didn't early. Get her out of the house of her own volition. Once gone change the locks. When she is in the wind on her own, she'll really understand the nature of what she is in. I missed my opportunity to do the same. I probably would have made a difference.


Unfortunately, I missed th opportunity to get her out too. Since we have two kids, I got an apartment when we first separate so as to not uproot them. Of course, she made it sound like we were going to try to work on things. Her affair only went deeper, thanks to my absence and me taking the kids 3-4 days of the week for our coparenting plan.

I've turned into a shell of myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Getting a hold of posOMW today can start to turn that ship around.

I want to point something out to you.

Frostflower and Sadwithouthim - two very fine ladies here.

Both felt the same as you do.

When they finally exposed the affair, "presto"... they started hearing from their estranged spouses.

It's about respect.


----------



## sadwithouthim

Conrad said:


> Getting a hold of posOMW today can start to turn that ship around.
> 
> I want to point something out to you.
> 
> Frostflower and Sadwithouthim - two very fine ladies here.
> 
> Both felt the same as you do.
> 
> When they finally exposed the affair, "presto"... they started hearing from their estranged spouses.
> 
> It's about respect.


Thank you Conrad. Just the comment is enough to get me out of bed and moving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## StillRemains

Good luck, sad.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Getting a hold of posOMW today can start to turn that ship around.
> 
> I want to point something out to you.
> 
> Frostflower and Sadwithouthim - two very fine ladies here.
> 
> Both felt the same as you do.
> 
> When they finally exposed the affair, "presto"... they started hearing from their estranged spouses.
> 
> It's about respect.


I'm going to leave the voicemail on tues since its a business number and its a holiday weekend.

I'm not optimistic. I exposed stbxw to family and friends and it did nothing.

I want my family back together so bad. I hate that something this big in my life is out of my control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

God, I just want to freakin' scream at the top of my lungs!

A text asking how the girls are doing, as she is off banging posOM on the other side of the country.

I just hate her faking like shes worried. If she really cared about being away she would not be doing this.

No way am I responding! Somebody correct me if I am wrong here.

Ugh!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad said:


> Getting a hold of posOMW today can start to turn that ship around.
> 
> I want to point something out to you.
> 
> Frostflower and Sadwithouthim - two very fine ladies here.
> 
> Both felt the same as you do.
> 
> When they finally exposed the affair, "presto"... they started hearing from their estranged spouses.
> 
> It's about respect.



Thanks, Conrad. I just got a rush of energy. I am going to have a great day!

Spun, the feeling I got when I told some of his co-workers was incredible. My heart actually felt lighter. I didn't expect that. Conrad is right. Don't continue to cover for them by non-action. 

I don't know if what I had anything to do with my H contacting me, but who cares. Even if it didn't, I still felt good because I had taken a step which gave me more respect for myself.

And, in your situation, the OMW deserves to know that her H is cheating.


----------



## spun

Alone with my thoughts here and I can't help but thinking what a fool I have been by continuing to chase her.. 

I think in the beginning there was a small window where I detached some and she started poking around seeing what I was thinking.

Of course, I completely let my guard down as always. 

Kind of funny. In the situations that many of us are in honesty is almost never the best policy for bringing them back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Alone with my thoughts here and I can't help but thinking what a fool I have been by continuing to chase her..
> 
> I think in the beginning there was a small window where I detached some and she started poking around seeing what I was thinking.
> 
> Of course, I completely let my guard down as always.
> 
> Kind of funny. In the situations that many of us are in honesty is almost never the best policy for bringing them back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure that we are being dishonest if we hold back our feelings, for example by doing the 180, instead of declaring our love and misery. Maybe by omission. I don't know. We're not outright lying. That would actually go against the 180, the purpose of which is to better ourselves. 

If holding back is lying, I think in this case, its a white lie, and we all do that anyway. When a friend asks if I like her new hairdo which looks like a nest built by deranged crows, I'm not going to hurt her feelings by telling her the truth. A little white lie is the lesser of two evils. So, if we are being dishonest by pretending that we are just fine even though they have shattered our lives, I think the greater purpose wins out.

But, yes, it is ironic. Most of the messes that we here find ourselves in were caused by people not being honest. But then, most of their lies were outright.

Stop being so darned philosophical, Spun. You're giving me a headache!


----------



## Conrad

Frostflower said:


> Thanks, Conrad. I just got a rush of energy. I am going to have a great day!
> 
> Spun, the feeling I got when I told some of his co-workers was incredible. My heart actually felt lighter. I didn't expect that. Conrad is right. Don't continue to cover for them by non-action.
> 
> I don't know if what I had anything to do with my H contacting me, but who cares. Even if it didn't, I still felt good because I had taken a step which gave me more respect for myself.
> 
> And, in your situation, the OMW deserves to know that her H is cheating.


If you do not tell OMW, you are a silent co-conspirator.


----------



## spun

Come on Conrad, 

I am going to do my best to reach posOmW. But, do really think it will make a damn bit of difference six months down the road here?

My stbxw could give a crap less, obviously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Come on Conrad,
> 
> I am going to do my best to reach posOmW. But, do really think it will make a damn bit of difference six months down the road here?
> 
> My stbxw could give a crap less, obviously.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You won't know unless you do it.

Stay the course brother.

Life is about not having to ask, "What if"

Bring it.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You won't know unless you do it.
> 
> Stay the course brother.
> 
> Life is about not having to ask, "What if"
> 
> Bring it.


Indeed. Although, in some ways I feel like I am setting myself back by focusing on "them"..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Hard to imagine feeling like a normal person again someday.

I should have no feelings for this woman after all she has put me through.

But, the hole in my heart just seems to get bigger everyday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## new man 0214

Spun hang in there .I wish I found this site 8 months ago.So many stories that are to the tee of my own life.From everthing i have read in just the last few days has given me a new out look on my situation.


----------



## spun

I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Is this normal...to feel like you simply can't go on?

The complete and utter disregard for our family and what we built haunts me.

I need relief but don't know how or where to find it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Is this normal...to feel like you simply can't go on?
> 
> The complete and utter disregard for our family and what we built haunts me.
> 
> I need relief but don't know how or where to find it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, it's normal. Do small things to give yourself some time-outs from these feelings. Long, brisk walks, clean out the garage, immerse yourself in some project you've been putting off. 

Can you get away for a few days?


----------



## spun

Not possible Frost. I have the girls. I have been keeping busy, but feel horribly empty.

You see we have been doing things like going to the pool and fair where there are lots of families.

Its tearing my heart out that she is giving up our family in favor of some long-distance fantasy.

I'm losing it. I have a hard time not blaming myself. She's good at making that happen for me. I need to find some place to put this mess. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Not possible Frost. I have the girls. I have been keeping busy, but feel horribly empty.
> 
> You see we have been doing things like going to the pool and fair where there are lots of families.
> 
> Its tearing my heart out that she is giving up our family in favor of some long-distance fantasy.
> 
> I'm losing it. I have a hard time not blaming myself. She's good at making that happen for me. I need to find some place to put this mess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you good at imagery? Try imagining a big box. Decorate it any way you want. When the black thoughts crowd into your mind, imagine grabbing them, putting them in the box and slamming the lid on them. If necessary, place a huge boulder on top of the box. then put the box in a cupboard and slam the door shut. 

Then keep busy.

And realize that the blame is coming from an outside source whose opinion you don't respect.


----------



## Orpheus

spun, just gotta keep trying to break the cycle when you're in it. reading / writing here helps to get out of your head and into somebody else's. burying myself in self help books on tape offer a good distraction when i cant get out and move around.

sorry.


----------



## spun

Thanks Frost and Orpheus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Have you spoken with posOMW yet?

Frost will testify, exposing this is the first step on the road back.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Have you spoken with posOMW yet?
> 
> Frost will testify, exposing this is the first step on the road back.


No. Tuesday is the day of the call to her workplace. Holiday is over then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> No. Tuesday is the day of the call to her workplace. Holiday is over then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck. I'll be thinking of you.


----------



## spun

Another text from stbxw from posOM land. 

She keeps asking how the girls are doing.

I refuse to answer.

She split with no word of where she was going.

Never responded when I asked how long she'd be gone.

She wants to live in fantasy land without her kids at her convenience.

Well. This is part of the package.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Another text from stbxw from posOM land.
> 
> She keeps asking how the girls are doing.
> 
> I refuse to answer.
> 
> She split with no word of where she was going.
> 
> Never responded when I asked how long she'd be gone.
> 
> She wants to live in fantasy land without her kids at her convenience.
> 
> Well. This is part of the package.


Now you're talking the talk - and walking the walk.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Now you're talking the talk - and walking the walk.


It's kind of interesting how not giving into something your not ok with can set your mood.

Since I chose to ignore those texts, I have felt 150% better.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> It's kind of interesting how not giving into something your not ok with can set your mood.
> 
> Since I chose to ignore those texts, I have felt 150% better.


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

Keep up the good work!


----------



## spun

My insides are in knots. At the house right now. She will soon be returning from her covert trip from posOM land. 

Still leaves me baffled how she got so far out of whack so fast.

I assume confronting her is a worthless endeavor.

My plan is to leave out the front door when she enters through our back door.

That way I don't end up melting down.

At least not in front of her.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> It's kind of interesting how not giving into something your not ok with can set your mood.
> 
> Since I chose to ignore those texts, I have felt 150% better.


The people in this forum know our way around.


----------



## spun

This is just grand. STBXW will be here in minutes. 

I am sitting on my sofa, in my home.

When she walks in, from her trip to see posOM, she will resume life in our home like it never happened

Meanwhile, I get to leave.

Something else. She decides to leave the marriage and I am the one that ended up out.

I want my life back.


----------



## Frostflower

I like your plan. 

Sorry, Spun, but life as you knew it is gone. Build a new, better one.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> I like your plan.
> 
> Sorry, Spun, but life as you knew it is gone. Build a new, better one.


Made the exit out the front door as I heard her entering thru the back door.

Did not even see her face. Wow. It feels good to protect my heart.

Normally, I am mess when stuff like this goes down.

Not today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Made the exit out the front door as I heard her entering thru the back door.
> 
> Did not even see her face. Wow. It feels good to protect my heart.
> 
> Normally, I am mess when stuff like this goes down.
> 
> Not today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Proud of ya! :smthumbup:


----------



## Orpheus

spun, i've gone through a few pages and i can't yet figure out this whole front door/back door slip thing. anyone?


----------



## Dignity

spun said:


> I feel like I am having a nervous breakdown. Is this normal...to feel like you simply can't go on?
> 
> The complete and utter disregard for our family and what we built haunts me.
> 
> I need relief but don't know how or where to find it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I totally relate. It's baffling how someone with whom you've shared so many years, experiences, trials, laughs and love with can just suddenly walk away from it all. I get it. 

We're left with all of the same routines, environments (home, work) and all these things do is remind you of what is missing from it all. I feel like escaping all the time. But you just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and with time, it'll get better. Hang in there.!


----------



## spun

@ Orpheus

I was in the house when she arrived back from posOm land.

She enters thru back door of home.

I exited thru the front of the house once I knew she was inside.

Kissed the kids and drove off without having to see her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

Orpheus said:


> spun, i've gone through a few pages and i can't yet figure out this whole front door/back door slip thing. anyone?


Its simple. She comes in the back door. He goes out the front. Children safely exchanged. NC. Spun is happy.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Its simple. She comes in the back door. He goes out the front. Children safely exchanged. NC. Spun is happy.


Well maybe not happy, but stable at least.

For now...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Orpheus

got it. about the exchange. it had an air of cloak and dagger about it that i was projecting.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Well maybe not happy, but stable at least.
> 
> For now...
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Small steps in the direction of happiness, right?




Orpheus said:


> got it. about the exchange. it had an air of cloak and dagger about it that i was projecting.


It was quite ingenious and devious, wasn't it? I'm proud of him!


----------



## spun

I am exhausted. Simply could not find the strength to check back in here yesterday after my switch.

Guess what happened less than an hour after my clean exit yesterday?

She begins terrorizing me via text. Untrue crap about the kids not being bathed.

I called her on it and asked if the judge would like to know that she is spending about half of each month out of state with posOM.

It's funny because she is always accusing me of stirring the pot.

Well hello! I went out of my way to make a conflict free exit and continue NC, and then you get in my face via text!

She wants out, so why does she feel the need to suck me back in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I am exhausted. Simply could not find the strength to check back in here yesterday after my switch.
> 
> Guess what happened less than an hour after my clean exit yesterday?
> 
> She begins terrorizing me via text. Untrue crap about the kids not being bathed.
> 
> I called her on it and asked if the judge would like to know that she is spending about half of each month out of state with posOM.
> 
> It's funny because she is always accusing me of stirring the pot.
> 
> Well hello! I went out of my way to make a conflict free exit and continue NC, and then you get in my face via text!
> 
> She wants out, so why does she feel the need to suck me back in?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay with the NC

Expose the Affair

It's working.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Stay with the NC
> 
> Expose the Affair
> 
> It's working.


Thanks Conrad.

It's so hard. 

In the same back and forth of texts. I told her if she thinks she is going to set up a new part time life in posOMs state, I will go for full custody.

She said moving there "is not in the cards".

She thanked me for not stirring things up upon her return. And said if I could have been like that more often "things could have ended up differently in our lives"

Whatever the hell that means.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

You do realize you're getting to her now.

Expose the Affair.


----------



## jdlash

Step it up even more and don't engage in fights via texts.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You do realize you're getting to her now.
> 
> Expose the Affair.


Voicemail left. No details about posOM or the affair stated on my part.

Just a simple message asking for a call back.

Now I wait and see...


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> Thanks Conrad.
> 
> It's so hard.
> 
> In the same back and forth of texts. I told her if she thinks she is going to set up a new part time life in posOMs state, I will go for full custody.
> 
> She said moving there "is not in the cards".
> 
> She thanked me for not stirring things up upon her return. And said if I could have been like that more often "things could have ended up differently in our lives"
> 
> Whatever the hell that means.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You left the BS she's doing alone and she wishes you would have let her get away with it more while you were together.


----------



## spun

Today was ok until I got another text...demanding that I return some tortillas to the home fridge pronto.

I did take them to cook dinner for my kids, but did not respond to the bait.

Its really insane. She can take a vehicle of mine in the middle of the night without a word.

But missing tortillas are a problem and must be returned stat.

Apparently I am the one that likes unnecessary drama.

Go figure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> Today was ok until I got another text...demanding that I return some tortillas to the home fridge pronto.
> 
> I did take them to cook dinner for my kids, but did not respond to the bait.
> 
> Its really insane. She can take a vehicle of mine in the middle of the night without a word.
> 
> But missing tortillas are a problem and must be returned stat.
> 
> Apparently I am the one that likes unnecessary drama.
> 
> Go figure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why does she have access to your car?


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Today was ok until I got another text...demanding that I return some tortillas to the home fridge pronto.
> 
> I did take them to cook dinner for my kids, but did not respond to the bait.
> 
> Its really insane. She can take a vehicle of mine in the middle of the night without a word.
> 
> But missing tortillas are a problem and must be returned stat.
> 
> Apparently I am the one that likes unnecessary drama.
> 
> Go figure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spun The Great Tortilla Thief!


----------



## spun

UpnOver said:


> Why does she have access to your car?[
> 
> Extra set of keys left behind at the house. I made her turn them over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Extra set of keys left behind at the house. I made her turn them over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now you're talking.

Did you enjoy the movie?


----------



## spun

My stbxw apparently lives in an alternative universe where living separate lives is enforceable solely on her terms.

She is having an outpatient surgery from which she cannot drive home from. Her mother will be in town to accompany her, only she cannot drive a stick. So what does she do? She leaves me a voice message asking if she can borrow my vehicle for the event. 

Sure no problem sweetie! You just took it in the middle of the night without asking a week ago. Now you figured you'd ask this time around. Are you kidding?

Complete and utter insanity, really.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> My stbxw apparently lives in an alternative universe where living separate lives is enforceable solely on her terms.
> 
> She is having an outpatient surgery for which her mother will be in town. Only she cannot drive a stick. So what does she do? She leaves me a voice message asking if she can borrow my vehicle for the event.
> 
> Sure no problem sweetie! You just took it in the middle of the night without asking a week ago. Now you figured you'd ask this time around. Are you kidding?
> 
> Complete and utter insanity, really.


And your answer?

Mine would be no... hell no.

She's calling her mother to help instead of her husband.

Let them work it out.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> And your answer?
> 
> Mine would be no... hell no.
> 
> She's calling her mother to help instead of her husband.
> 
> Let them work it out.


I told her sorry, that ship set sail when you felt compelled to take my property in the middle of the night without my permission.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I told her sorry, that ship set sail when you felt compelled to take my property in the middle of the night without my permission.


"I'm not ok with that" would be better


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> "I'm not ok with that" would be better


Is it possible to be a "nice guy" that ends up angry as hell all the time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Is it possible to be a "nice guy" that ends up angry as hell all the time?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Niceguys are very angry - as a breed.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Niceguys are very angry - as a breed.


Because we can't keep ourselves from being stepped on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Because we can't keep ourselves from being stepped on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Our right brains tell us they'll love us if we let our boundaries give way.

Then we get mad as hell when they don't respond.

"Don't you see what I did for you?!!!!!!"

(they don't)


----------



## spun

So sad that it took me reaching 40 and my wife's affair to wake up.

In hindsight, I know what all my frustration and anger was about. My boundaries were being stepped on all the time. I did my best to tuck it away, thinking I must be the problem.

That only worked for so long, the I'd find myself acting out in desperation to be heard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So sad that it took me reaching 40 and my wife's affair to wake up.
> 
> In hindsight, I know what all my frustration and anger was about. My boundaries were being stepped on all the time. I did my best to tuck it away, thinking I must be the problem.
> 
> That only worked for so long, the I'd find myself acting out in desperation to be heard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The guy typing this message to you did the same things.

Forgive yourself.

I have.

It feels great (and I was older than you when I got it right).


----------



## spun

You see it I think I have figured out that it is my guilt that's keeping me from letting go.

I am stuck in thinking " I need to go back and fix it".

How do I stop holding myself hostage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> You see it I think I have figured out that it is my guilt that's keeping me from letting go.
> 
> I am stuck in thinking " I need to go back and fix it".
> 
> How do I stop holding myself hostage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Expose the affair.

Give defiant people what they want.

But don't pay for it.


----------



## spun

I have done all 3. Still waiting to see if posOmW is going to return my call.

Still mad as hell and stuck as ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash

This is the biggest problem that most of us have. We try to take the blame for everything. The first thing to do is to accept that people make mistakes. You made mistakes, but it wasn't only you. Work on accepting yourself and the guilt will start to go away.


----------



## spun

jdlash said:


> This is the biggest problem that most of us have. We try to take the blame for everything. The first thing to do is to accept that people make mistakes. You made mistakes, but it wasn't only you. Work on accepting yourself and the guilt will start to go away.


She tells me the failure of our marriage is all my fault. My logical brain knows that is not true. My emotional brain drinks the kool aid.

That's what is keeping me stuck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash

I must be running out of steam. When I hear things from my W that leads to everything being my fault, my first thought is; there is no way that I would spend another 30 years getting blamed for everything.

I started looking at the bigger picture (meaning the fact that I'm only 33) and it has calmed me down quite a bit. I'm not giving up yet, but I'm not ok with being blamed for everything for 30 or 40 more years.


----------



## jdlash

My W is starting to see financial difficulty and honestly I'm not rolling in money. When she says how broke she is, I reply I hear ya. I don't say anything more. When I can respond to pretty much anything she throws at me without blaming her, or getting angry, then I'll move on. Until then, I'm going to use her as my training tool


----------



## spun

jdlash said:


> I must be running out of steam. When I hear things from my W that leads to everything being my fault, my first thought is; there is no way that I would spend another 30 years getting blamed for everything.
> 
> I started looking at the bigger picture (meaning the fact that I'm only 33) and it has calmed me down quite a bit. I'm not giving up yet, but I'm not ok with being blamed for everything for 30 or 40 more years.


I have been seeing things this way a bit myself. I have started to ask myself what would the cost be to going back if that somehow became an option?

I would have to shoulder the whole blame. It would be like living in jail. An insufferable situation.

I really want to find a way to let her go, to find peace with the death of our marriage and to find peace with myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Orpheus

spun said:


> I really want to find a way to let her go, to find peace with the death of our marriage and myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


it's easy, you just do it.

not so easy, right? i burned alive for the first month or so because i was the one that said the words first. It took me a while to get the whole "it takes 2" thing and that she'd been pushing me out of the relationship for a while... so i blew up when i was on a week of 5/50x8 hydrocodone and trying to come off of it for a wall of recovery stress and pain. but all the same, i'm the one that said the words. and that's all it took for her.

so, read my 99 red balloons comment to jpr a couple days ago or read any or all of the texts in the links of my sig.

sorry man. nobody other than you knows exactly the hell you've imprisoned yourself in. i can just say i sympathize. there aren't good and bad things. there's just things. eventually you'll move on.


----------



## jdlash

Use her to better yourself. We can read as many books as we want, but we need the on the job training so to speak. There's no use having it be future relationships.


----------



## Conrad

jdlash said:


> I must be running out of steam. When I hear things from my W that leads to everything being my fault, my first thought is; there is no way that I would spend another 30 years getting blamed for everything.
> 
> I started looking at the bigger picture (meaning the fact that I'm only 33) and it has calmed me down quite a bit. I'm not giving up yet, but I'm not ok with being blamed for everything for 30 or 40 more years.


Have you told her that?


----------



## jdlash

Conrad said:


> Have you told her that?


I haven't told her anything lately. I took the girls over to see her tonight and ducked out before she could give me her famious friend hug. I'm detaching. I find that I don't detach as well when I tell her anything. 

I don't get anxious being at her condo. I don't act upset lately no matter what she says or does. I'm sure she see's it. I don't care if she does or doesn't. I'm not tellling her anything. I'm learning to be happy no matter what the outcome is. 

I don't know why, but whenever I try to have a conversation about us, it sets me back. Knowing that, I'm done having conversations about us for now.

Sorry about the thread jacking!


----------



## spun

jdlash said:


> I haven't told her anything lately. I took the girls over to see her tonight and ducked out before she could give me her famious friend hug. I'm detaching. I find that I don't detach as well when I tell her anything.
> 
> I don't get anxious being at her condo. I don't act upset lately no matter what she says or does. I'm sure she see's it. I don't care if she does or doesn't. I'm not tellling her anything. I'm learning to be happy no matter what the outcome is.
> 
> I don't know why, but whenever I try to have a conversation about us, it sets me back. Knowing that, I'm done having conversations about us for now.
> 
> Sorry about the thread jacking!


No worries here about the thread jd.

The relationship conversations, as much as they seem to be the way forward, keep us from healing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash

spun said:


> No worries here about the thread jd.
> 
> The relationship conversations, as much as they seem to be the way forward, keep us from healing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don't think they move us forward with the W's either. I think actions are much louder. Being kind, but not stooping to the level of always wanting to discuss things when they don't is probably more helpful.


----------



## jdlash

If after a few weeks she says it seems like you have given up, I can say no I'm just not ok with always taking the blame for everything.


----------



## spun

jdlash said:


> I don't think they move us forward with the W's either. I think actions are much louder. Being kind, but not stooping to the level of always wanting to discuss things when they don't is probably more helpful.


I hear you. Tried getting through to her tonight, it just boiled over like always.

I need to be done. But after a few days the pull to come back and fix it becomes so strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash

It becomes very strong, but I can tell you that after a couple weeks it gets easier. It is 100% less difficult for me to bite my tongue now. The best part is I find myself not even thinking about what the temperature of our marriage is less and less every day!


----------



## spun

jdlash said:


> It becomes very strong, but I can tell you that after a couple weeks it gets easier. It is 100% less difficult for me to bite my tongue now. The best part is I find myself not even thinking about what the temperature of our marriage is less and less every day!


Good for you. I'm months in still trying to get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash

spun said:


> Good for you. I'm months in still trying to get there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The roller coaster rides aren't over until you take yourself out of the park. I'm still in the park, but I'm trying to walk towards the exit gate! 

This doesn't mean we have given up on our marriage, just simply that we refuse to let something out of our control define us.


----------



## spun

jdlash said:


> The roller coaster rides aren't over until you take yourself out of the park. I'm still in the park, but I'm trying to walk towards the exit gate!
> 
> This doesn't mean we have given up on our marriage, just simply that we refuse to let something out of our control define us.


She pronounced our marriage dead so I do need to give up.

All good things in all good time, I suppose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> She pronounced our marriage dead so I do need to give up.
> 
> All good things in all good time, I suppose.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you exposed the affair?

I mean, have you exposed the affair to posOMW?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Have you exposed the affair?
> 
> I mean, have you exposed the affair to posOMW?


Voicemail left at posomW's work phone which is all I have.

Just waiting to see if I get a return call.

I will be really surprised if it makes any difference either way.

Stbxw really is gone, telling her story to everyone about how horrible a H I was.

To be honest I was at times. And to this day, I still show her how angry I am about her walking out. It's just too easy to cave in.

At this juncture, each interaction I have with her brings me a little closer to not wanting her back at all anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Voicemail left at posomW's work phone which is all I have.
> 
> Just waiting to see if I get a return call.
> 
> I will be really surprised if it makes any difference either way.
> 
> Stbxw really is gone, telling her story to everyone about how horrible a H I was.
> 
> To be honest I was at times. And to this day, I still show her how angry I am about her walking out. It's just too easy to cave in.
> 
> At this juncture, each interaction I have with her brings me a little closer to not wanting her back at all anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's good.

I would place another call to posOMW.


----------



## spun

I'm so screwed up. Why the hell do I try to reach out to her. It never goes anywhere, and I just end up feeling awful about the situation and myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash

spun said:


> I'm so screwed up. Why the hell do I try to reach out to her. It never goes anywhere, and I just end up feeling awful about the situation and myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Remember what I said yesterday and try it. You have to force yourself to not reach out. It is going to take serious self controll, but each day it gets easier.


----------



## spun

Its the kids that make it so hard to move on. I have to see her all the time, and the fact that she seems to care less about blowing everything up is so unsettling. The women I once knew is long dead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gearhead65

You are going to have days where you want to, but only you can make the choice not to. Let it go. Put it down and walk away from the thing that is hurting you. 

Say that to yourself anytime you pick up the phone to call her, text her, email her. Ask yourself what would a mature, secure, powerful man do? And do that.


----------



## spun

gearhead65 said:


> You are going to have days where you want to, but only you can make the choice not to. Let it go. Put it down and walk away from the thing that is hurting you.
> 
> Say that to yourself anytime you pick up the phone to call her, text her, email her. Ask yourself what would a mature, secure, powerful man do? And do that.


Absolutely nothing has changed in her life. Same house, same friends, just no spun. 

I get the gift of carrying the weight of our D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gearhead65

Well it is good you're looking at it as a gift. Try to stay in that place.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> The women I once knew is long dead.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then, dear Spun, bury her and leave the graveyard.


----------



## spun

Saturday morning here alone in my apartment. Having a hard time with being closed out of what was once my life. I miss the casual weekend mornings with everyone around.

Amazing how one's life can change so quickly based on the wishes of one person
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dscl

spun said:


> Absolutely nothing has changed in her life. Same house, same friends, just no spun.
> 
> I get the gift of carrying the weight of our D.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spun,

Have not read your whole thread, but this post is the same things Im dealing with. Wife is still in the house, calling and texting her OM while in the backyard and living like everything is OK.

I have no advice, but just want to to let you know that you are not alone in this nightmare.


----------



## spun

dscl said:


> Spun,
> 
> Have not read your whole thread, but this post is the same things Im dealing with. Wife is still in the house, calling and texting her OM while in the backyard and living like everything is OK.
> 
> I have no advice, but just want to to let you know that you are not alone in this nightmare.


Sorry to hear it. Nobody should have to live through this. Wish I could just wave a magic wand and make all the hurt go away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Saturday morning here alone in my apartment. Having a hard time with being closed out of what was once my life. I miss the casual weekend mornings with everyone around.
> 
> Amazing how one's life can change so quickly based on the wishes of one person
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spun, get out of the apartment. Go for a walk, go to a movie, meet a friend for coffee, go for a swim. better yet sign up for a Saturday class at the community center, even if it's basket weaving. That way, you're forced to go out for a few Saturdays at least. Or volunteer at the hospital or the Food Bank. Just don't sit around moping all day.




dscl said:


> Spun,
> 
> Have not read your whole thread, but this post is the same things Im dealing with. Wife is still in the house, calling and texting her OM while in the backyard and living like everything is OK.
> 
> I have no advice, but just want to to let you know that you are not alone in this nightmare.


Your wife iis still in the house?!


----------



## spun

Packing up the vw camper and getting the heck out of here. Just me and my guitar. I'm just going to drive and see where I end up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dscl

Frostflower said:


> Spun, get out of the apartment. Go for a walk, go to a movie, meet a friend for coffee, go for a swim. better yet sign up for a Saturday class at the community center, even if it's basket weaving. That way, you're forced to go out for a few Saturdays at least. Or volunteer at the hospital or the Food Bank. Just don't sit around moping all day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your wife iis still in the house?!



Yes, legally I can't kick her out.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Packing up the vw camper and getting the heck out of here. Just me and my guitar. I'm just going to drive and see where I end up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brilliant! Out in the fresh air, surrounded by nature. That always helps me. Sit and breath and listen to the quiet around you. 

Have a good trip.



dscl said:


> Yes, legally I can't kick her out.


Then you get out.


----------



## spun

Was good to get outside and spend the evening camping. Still can't shake this emptiness. Not having the family along just plain hurts and reminds me of the whole demise of my marriage and family life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Was good to get outside and spend the evening camping. Still can't shake this emptiness. Not having the family along just plain hurts and reminds me of the whole demise of my marriage and family life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry, Spun. I wish I could take away all your pain. 

You will eventually fill that emptiness. It will take time. And effort. Don't sit at home by yourself. Get out, keep busy. Put yourself in situations where you will meet new people. I know its hard right now, but if you make that initial effort, it will get easier. 

And you are too nice a person to be alone for long. Someone out there is waiting for you. Go and find her.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I feel your pain, spun. I'm sorry you hurt.


----------



## spun

It all just sucks across the board...contact or no contact doesn't change a damn thing, not for me, not for her.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf

I've been divorced since the end of June and I still love her! I miss her every day. Morning, noon and night I think about her. I wonder what she is doing. I think of her smile. Ahhh! I wish it never happened. I've never hurt this bad in my whole life.

For me, it is similar to someone dying. Problem is, I work in the same building as her new beau, so I hear little snippets of things. I see him every work day off and on, all day long.

At one point after separation, I talked to my ex on the phone. I was in terrible shape. I was sobbing and asking "why??" Now, some of the guys at work, and this happens every day, sometimes for six hours at a time, but most days less, holler out "Why?!" They say it any time someone asks them to do something. They say it any time they feel like it. I've overheard people ask him, "How's she doing?", "Is she happy?", "You keep her happy."

I wonder if they know what this does to me? I think it has become a game now and they have no clue how badly it still hurts. I don't think they even realize, half the time, what they are doing, but I don't know for sure. It is pure torture. 

Everyone at work thinks I should be friends with my ex-wife's new man and all the people at work who knew about their affair for over a year and said nothing to me, but helped him by letting him know things I was doing. At the time, I didn't know anything about what was going on. After we separated, I was in shock. I was never diagnosed with it, but it seems like post traumatic stress disorder.

I just cannot be friends with my coworkers. I can only barely speak to the folks I need to help get my job done. I can say nothing about my personal life, nothing. They wonder why.

I bought an audio book and loaded it on my mp3 player. It is helping some. I listen to it all day and try to drown out thoughts of my ex-wife. The book is inspirational. "The Last Lecture" by Randy Pausch.

Keeping busy helps, but I can't stay busy enough. Even when exhausted, I still only sleep for an hour or two at a time, then awaken and think about things. The periods of sleep are getting longer, but it is taking quite a bit of time.

Keep trying. I believe it will get better. You will start to do little things. Do them one at a time and you will find you are able to get things done. You will start to trust yourself again. You will start to feel like a man again. It will happen.

There are many people on here who will help you. They are good people. Reading their stories will help. I guess misery does love company.


----------



## spun

2ntnuf said:


> I've been divorced since the end of June and I still love her! I miss her every day. Morning, noon and night I think about her. I wonder what she is doing. I think of her smile. Ahhh! I wish it never happened. I've never hurt this bad in my whole life.
> 
> For me, it is similar to someone dying. Problem is, I work in the same building as her new beau, so I hear little snippets of things. I see him every work day off and on, all day long. It is pure torture.
> 
> 
> Everyone at work thinks I should be friends with him and all the people at work who knew about it for over a year and said nothing to me, but helped him by letting him know things I was doing.
> 
> At the time, I didn't know anything about what was going on. They still go to him and say things like, "How's she doing?", "Is she happy?", "You keep her happy."
> 
> I bought an audio book and loaded it on my mp3 player. It is helping some. I listen to it all day and try to drown out thoughts of my ex-wife. The book is inspirational. "The Last Lecture" by Randy Pausch.
> 
> Keeping busy helps, but I can't stay busy enough. Even when exhausted, I still only sleep for an hour or two at a time, then awaken and think about things. The periods of sleep are getting longer, but it is taking quite a bit of time.
> 
> Keep trying. I believe it will get better. You will start to do little things. Do them one at a time and you will find you are able to get things done. You will start to trust yourself again. You will start to feel like a man again. It will happen.
> 
> Don't give up. Just take it slow. You will be okay. There are many people on here who will help you. They are good people. Reading their stories will help. I guess misery does love company.


Thanks for sharing your pain. I have been separated for 6 months now. There is also another man in the picture which catalyzed our split. My problem is that having kids makes moving forward so difficult. That and the hope that the affair may die down and her fog will somehow lift.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brokenbythis

spun said:


> I think so. She knows I have been available for R.
> The constant rejection and disrespect is beginning to wear me thin, I think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The constant rejection and disrespect has worn me thin too. I've been available for a possible R also but he has not made any attempts to say or do the things that need to be done to start on the road to R. 

Yesterday I found out he is dating a girl he knew from high school. All the time keeping me on the hook as plan b telling me he wants to put off divorce to see how thing go with me. Like a fool, I bought it.

How quickly I've been replaced. Out like old garbage.

I guess I should have known he'd be on to another woman immediately since he has been diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder. They need to find the next person to rescue.

I've been worn so thin I'm done. I've finally accepted it's over and I'm taking the steps to move on. I'm not going to try or hope any more. Today I told him to move all his stuff out (he's been living with a buddy for the past 2 mths). I also told him as soon as I can afford to retain an attorney I'll be filing divorce papers.

When the lease runs out on this house at xmas I'll be moving to an apartment and I'll start my new life with our son and dog.

The new girlfriend and dating when stringing me along was the final nail in the coffin for me.


----------



## legiox

I'm hurting right now also. I'm only on week 2 (cant even imagine at 6 months). I hate coming home to an empty apartment. No matter what i do to stay busy, i always come home to an empty bed/apartment. Hurts so bad....


----------



## brokenbythis

legiox said:


> I'm hurting right now also. I'm only on week 2 (cant even imagine at 6 months). I hate coming home to an empty apartment. No matter what i do to stay busy, i always come home to an empty bed/apartment. Hurts so bad....


I hear ya. You can only trust it will get better in time. That's my hope. Even though as I stated in another post, I've been doing everything alone for so lone due to his shift hours, it still hurts. I have no family here, and friends are scarce due to not socializing much again due to his job.

It hurts to be tossed away like you never mattered. It really does.


----------



## Frostflower

brokenbythis said:


> I hear ya. You can only trust it will get better in time. That's my hope. Even though as I stated in another post, I've been doing everything alone for so lone due to his shift hours, it still hurts. I have no family here, and friends are scarce due to not socializing much again due to his job.
> 
> It hurts to be tossed away like you never mattered. It really does.


legilox and broken, you both sound like you are in so much pain. I'm so sorry that you are going through all this.

Hugs.


----------



## spun

Stbxw sent me an email itemizing kid expenses to be split between us. No problem.

She had the nerve to add that we are also splitting the cost of the mediators retainer, which she paid last month.

I told her, again, that the D is her choice and that I'm not ok with paying for it.

Now I wait to see when and how she tries to get me to pay for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Stbxw sent me an email itemizing kid expenses to be split between us. No problem.
> 
> She had the nerve to add that we are also splitting the cost of the mediators retainer, which she paid last month.
> 
> I told her, again, that the D is her choice and that I'm not ok with paying for it.
> 
> Now I wait to see when and how she tries to get me to pay for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stand tall.

She wants it, she pays.

Simple as that.


----------



## spun

So I need some input here.

Today was my youngest's first day of kindergarten. It was also a morning that stbxw had the children, I get them this afternoon after school.

Stbxw has requested that I not show up on days that I do not have the kids. Now, she just sends me an aggressive text, saying how I should have been there like all the other dads.

I chose not to go to continue my NC, and protect my heart. 

She succeeded in making me feel like sh!t, yet again.

Am I the one who is at fault here. 

Should I respond to her? If so, what should I say?


----------



## Conrad

You should not respond.

If she presses the issue, you simply say, "I'm not ok with this discussion. Your embarrassment at our situation is not my problem"


----------



## 06Daddio08

Conrad said:


> You should not respond.
> 
> If she presses the issue, you simply say, "I'm not ok with this discussion. Your embarrassment at our situation is not my problem"


I agree with Conrad.

Although, I do not agree with missing mutual events for the children if that's something you want to attend.

Such as school, sports etc.

Unless it's a family event on the other side.

I don't have the kids for the next 2 weeks but I'll be watching my daughter dance on Saturdays.

Got no problem standing in the back.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You should not respond.
> 
> If she presses the issue, you simply say, "I'm not ok with this discussion. Your embarrassment at our situation is not my problem"


I simply said given the state of our relationship and family I chose not to go in my daughters best interest.

Said she will have her first day with Dad tomorrow.

I ended by saying, it was her choice to sever our family and that I am not ok playing nuclear family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I simply said given the state of our relationship and family I chose not to go in my daughters best interest.
> 
> Said she will have her first day with Dad tomorrow.
> 
> I ended by saying, it was her choice to sever our family and that I am not ok playing nuclear family.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very good.

Except the "it was her choice" language.

"I'm not ok playing nuclear family. That's not what we are"


----------



## spun

Her choice = persecution, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

Conrad said:


> Very good.
> 
> Except the "it was her choice" language.
> 
> "I'm not ok playing nuclear family. That's not what we are"


Reminding her that she was the one to do this serves no good.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Her choice = persecution, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's an appeal to victim status.

Never works.

Never will work.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You should not respond.
> 
> Your embarrassment at our situation is not my problem"


How is this not considered staying in the triangle? 

Seems like it turns the problem back on her, no?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> How is this not considered staying in the triangle?
> 
> Seems like it turns the problem back on her, no?


>>I should have been there like all the other dads.<<

That was the line that got me thinking why she would care.

It's not about your child.

It's about her - like everything else.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> >>I should have been there like all the other dads.<<
> 
> That was the line that got me thinking why she would care.
> 
> It's not about your child.
> 
> It's about her - like everything else.


It does have a flavor of her projecting her guilt onto me. That was my feeling too.

She went on to say that it was a milestone I should not have missed, though she was not surprised because I was never there for these events and the kids were always an inconvenience for me.

Truth be told. I have missed some events for the kids over the years, because I was off working hard to make it in my career to keep things stable for my family. But, I have been there for many things, sporting games, talent shows, ballet recitals, fund raisers etc.

Every time I go no contact, something like this flares up. 

Deep in my heart, I would still like to try to R somewhere down the road. Because I do feel I have a responsibility in our marital breakdown.

It's just hard to feel like I am getting anywhere other than making her more upset.


----------



## Conrad

Keep this in mind.

Indifference is the ultimate insult.

If she felt you were worthless, you wouldn't be hearing from her.

Also, you're getting a much stronger reaction from her now than you were when you first showed up on TAM.

I don't want to raise your hopes, but you're doing well.

It's working.

Place another call to posOMW.


----------



## spun

I am surely going to take some heat for this one.

I ended up having a brief face-to-face conversation with her yesterday afternoon. 

She seemed genuinely upset when she came to the door. Slightly teary-eyed. I knew it was about me not coming to the schoolyard.

She mentioned a couple that we have become close friends with over the years asked where I was. So Conrad, you were right, that was the trigger for her getting upset at me. I told her that I chose to create some distance, in order to protect myself and the kids and that our friends don't know the true extent of all events that continue to undermine our relationship to this day. She validated my actions and she full-on welled up in tears.

We had a brief diversion about how we would handle packing the kids lunches on days when we each have them.

Then, some more relationship discussion ensued.

She expressed anger over things that I did to harm our relationship. They all were true. I validated her feelings, but said I did not see how it was helpful to keep reliving past events.

She passed some comment about that more-or-less expressed that she felt defeated about the directions we both went over the last couple of months. I responded simply by saying that things don't have to stay on the current path. She was silent. And rather than blaming me, responded with some things that she'd really like to see change with me.

I told her that I was not happy with choice she made. But did not accuse or blame her. She seemed somewhat ashamed at her actions for the first time. No eye contact and no defense. She simply said she was sad about how things got so bad between us that she stepped out.

I said we could slow things down with D. She did not agree or disagree. We ended the conversation there.

I don't want to read into the situation too much, but it does seem like maybe some of her fog may be lifting.

How can I know for sure?


----------



## Conrad

Keep observing - stay @50,000 feet. Cool, emotionless, and strong.

That was close to perfect.

I'll bet you can tell me which parts weren't.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Keep observing - stay @50,000 feet. Cool, emotionless, and strong.
> 
> That was close to perfect.
> 
> I'll bet you can tell me which parts weren't.


Let's see. The not-so perfect parts.

I rug swept by saying I don't think its helpful to keep reliving the past.

I showed attachment by saying things don't have to stay on the current path.

Appealed to victim state by pointing out I was not happy with the choice she made.

Showed attachment again by saying that we could slow things down with the D.

How did I do?

P.S. She made a phone call to me this afternoon for something she could easily have texted me about (whether or not I was available for an appointment at specific time).

Interesting.


----------



## Conrad

You have been among the most skeptical.

Yet, I see the green shoots of belief.



Stand up brother.

Better days ahead.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Let's see. The not-so perfect parts.
> 
> I rug swept by saying I don't think its helpful to keep reliving the past.
> 
> I showed attachment by saying things don't have to stay on the current path.
> 
> Appealed to victim state by pointing out I was not happy with the choice she made.
> 
> Showed attachment again by saying that we could slow things down with the D.
> 
> How did I do?
> 
> P.S. She made a phone call to me this afternoon for something she could easily have texted me about (whether or not I was available for an appointment at specific time).
> 
> Interesting.


Wow, Spun. That was an amazing analysis. I think you are half-way to a PHD in Conradism!


----------



## muskrat

Stay strong Spun, I'm rooting for ya!


----------



## spun

muskrat said:


> Stay strong Spun, I'm rooting for ya!


Nothing to root for here, Rat.

Shes reaching out for her benefit. Wants me to go along with a refinance of the home so it will lower her monthly payment.

Needs my signature since the loan is in both of our names.

Somethings will just never change.

I need to completely detach for my own sanity.

It's just hard to pretend you don't care when you really do.

You are familiar with that mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Nothing to root for here, Rat.
> 
> Shes reaching out for her benefit. Wants me to go along with a refinance of the home so it will lower her monthly payment.
> 
> Needs my signature since the loan is in both of our names.
> 
> Somethings will just never change.
> 
> I need to completely detach for my own sanity.
> 
> It's just hard to pretend you don't care when you really do.
> 
> You are familiar with that mess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you spoken with posOMW?


----------



## spun

Nope another message. No response.

Did happen to sneak a peak at the stbxws texts this morning.

He mentioned get back from his lawyers, so apparently his D is in full swing too.

It's them against the world now.

I feel gutted
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Orpheus

bad way to start your day.


----------



## spun

Orpheus said:


> bad way to start your day.


Yes. But I cannot blame anyone but myself. I made the choice to look at something I knew would hurt me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Matt1720

just add it to your "reality checklist"


----------



## Frostflower

I'm sorry, Spun. I know it doesn't help much now, but as I've been tola several times by people her, the chances of them lasting together over the long term are pretty slim.

Hugs.


----------



## spun

Just got back from signing those papers for the home refinance.

This woman is kryptonite to me. After any face-to-face encounter with her and I am drained.

I guess you know you are ready to be divorced where it is difficult to be in the same room with the person.

So much work ahead of me to get to the point where I just don't care anymore.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Just got back from signing those papers for the home refinance.
> 
> This woman is kryptonite to me. After any face-to-face encounter with her and I am drained.
> 
> I guess you know you are ready to be divorced where it is difficult to be in the same room with the person.
> 
> So much work ahead of me to get to the point where I just don't care anymore.


Nope.

You'll be ready when you're indifferent.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Nope.
> 
> You'll be ready when you're indifferent.


Has nothing to do with when I am ready.

It's all about her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Has nothing to do with when I am ready.
> 
> It's all about her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was responding to this:

>>I guess you know you are ready to be divorced<<

Your state of mind has nothing to do with the status of paperwork.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You have been among the most skeptical.
> 
> Yet, I see the green shoots of belief.
> 
> 
> 
> Stand up brother.
> 
> Better days ahead.


Still scratching my head as to what I have been skeptical about here Conrad.

Care to expand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Still scratching my head as to what I have been skeptical about here Conrad.
> 
> Care to expand?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just a reference to her noticing you actually exist again.

I thought you maintained that was impossible.

I still think you're up for a good chat with posOMW.

Even if it only helps her clean him out in a divorce.

Do you know what town they live in?


----------



## spun

Good. Stbxw is finally beginning to face some consequences for her actions.

She maintains that when I split our joint accounts some of the money in there was pre taxed commission funds of hers.

Well guess who's asking for me for money to contribute to her taxes now?

Told her I'm not interested, that she should have thought about things like this when she chose to walk out.

I'm sure this is the first of many such troubles with her finances to come.

I'm done being nice or supporting any of her interests.

Period.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

"I'm not ok with that"

A perfectly fine response.

She could get "perfectly used" to hearing it.

She and posOM can go piss up a rope.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> "I'm not ok with that"
> 
> A perfectly fine response.
> 
> She could get "perfectly used" to hearing it.
> 
> She and posOM can go piss up a rope.


Told her "I am not interested" contributing.

Her famous words when I have tried to say we could try to work things out with us.

I'm finally get sick of this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Told her "I am not interested" contributing.
> 
> Her famous words when I have tried to say we could try to work things out with us.
> 
> I'm finally get sick of this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good

I mean that brother.

Stay the course.


----------



## spun

Who knows, I may eventually be ordered to pay my portion under the guise of community property law.

For now, she can stew.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Orpheus

It is getting to be stew season after all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Aquious

canguy66 said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/44520-breaking-through-after-grieving-period-progress-so-far.html


I'm unable to access this link. I even registered so that I could but still don't have access. Could you PM me the details of the post?

Thanks


----------



## spun

Must be nice to have a posOM and not have to deal with emotional fallout of ending 15 years.

So tired of holding the bag here, but can't seem to let go.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Must be nice to have a posOM and not have to deal with emotional fallout of ending 15 years.
> 
> So tired of holding the bag here, but can't seem to let go.


If it makes you feel any better, when the inevitable happens with posOM, the panic is 10x worse than anything you've experienced.


----------



## spun

Yesterday, I received another interesting glimpse into the fantasy world with posOM.

I wonder if their relationship is beginning to become a little unstable?

I checked the mail and intercepted a card which had some words that surpised me.

posOM stated that "she had been through so much in last few weeks and they needed to keep faith because they would get there". He then went on to say that she would continue to wittle away with me and that as tough as I was on her she continued to support me and give me benefit of the doubt".

Maybe I am ready into things too much, but does he kind of uneasy about my status in her life and their future together?

Just hoping for some kind of glimpse of light, I guess.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yesterday, I received another interesting glimpse into the fantasy world with posOM.
> 
> I wonder if their relationship is beginning to become a little unstable?
> 
> I checked the mail and intercepted a card which had some words that surpised me.
> 
> posOM stated that "she had been through so much in last few weeks and they needed to keep faith because they would get there". He then went on to say that she would continue to wittle away with me and that as tough as I was on her she continued to support me and give me benefit of the doubt".
> 
> Maybe I am ready into things too much, but does he kind of uneasy about my status in her life and their future together?
> 
> Just hoping for some kind of glimpse of light, I guess.


You have underestimated yourself from the day you got here.

Talk to posOMW

They're cracking.

It's inevitable.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You have underestimated yourself from the day you got here.
> 
> Talk to posOMW
> 
> They're cracking.
> 
> It's inevitable.


I have tried to no avail to reach posOMW. Can't seem to get past the voicemail.

Any other ideas to make it difficult for them to continue?

Or do I just sit back and wait for it to unravel?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I have tried to no avail to reach posOMW. Can't seem to get past the voicemail.
> 
> Any other ideas to make it difficult for them to continue?
> 
> Or do I just sit back and wait for it to unravel?


You know her name.

Do you know where they live - what town?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You know her name.
> 
> Do you know where they live - what town?


I do know her name and town. No public home phone listing though.

Incidently, I now have posOMs address. Its in a different town than hers, so it is unlikely that he and posOMW are still together.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I do know her name and town. No public home phone listing though.
> 
> Incidently, I now have posOMs address. Its in a different town than hers, so it is unlikely that he and posOMW are still together.


Given the size of her town, how difficult would it be to track her down?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Given the size of her town, how difficult would it be to track her down?


Population =19,000. So not terribly large. 

What are you suggesting?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Population =19,000. So not terribly large.
> 
> What are you suggesting?


You can likely find someone that knows her simply by going to their grocery store. She has to shop there.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You can likely find someone that knows her simply by going to their grocery store. She has to shop there.


So I show up there and start poking around for leads on how to get to her. Don''t want to become stalker :scratchhead:


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So I show up there and start poking around for leads on how to get to her. Don''t want to become stalker :scratchhead:


Just post a sign on a common message board.

In small towns, word will get to her.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Just post a sign on a common message board.
> 
> In small towns, word will get to her.


And what exactly does this do for me?

Feels like just one more thing to obsess over that is related to her.

The whole situation has way too much power over me.


----------



## Seven of Luck

Spun; I read your thread last night. And just caught up again this afternoon.

I am going through a 'similar' situation. Although, I am the one still in the house with the kids. My wife... or mother of our children rather, has left us.

From my point of view, it's because of this EA, turned PA. But was never acknowledge as an affair between them to even begin with. She most likely told him that she was done with our relationship and he had no guilt in pursuing her. Now they are living together...

I too am still holding on the love I have for her. It's unconditional - and damn it - it hurts!

I would love for her to wake up from the fog and come back into our home as the mother she knows she can be.

Not sure what we can do to influence them there. When all they have to do is glance at us and see all the bad things they are running away from. 

It's easier said then done when people say to work on yourself when the better half of you is missing. I guess that's the objective. To make the worst half of yourself more then comparable in which it does become the better half. Maybe only then will the pieces of our selves come together as we HOPE they should.


----------



## spun

This ride just seems to get more confusing for me the longer it goes along.

Stbxw and I are in full-on coparenting and school mode with the two kids. We only live a couple miles apart, and the kids are little, which means we switch them every 2 to 3 days. This translates to lots of interaction and contact between us. 

Because of my desire to "fix" us, I am in full fight or flight mode most of the time when I see her. Its not uncommon for something to trigger something about the state of our relationship.

Lately, I feel like somehow things may be changing inside her head. She seems shut down less. And, while not showing any overt interest in R, she does not shut down with complete disinterest like she was until just last week. She has also noticed some of my "improvements" and steps that I am making to take care of me.

We have another mediation appointment. I went out on a limb suggested that we might slow things down in that regard. She said we should still go to come to an agreement about our finances since a lot of that is still up in the air since I split our joint accounts 3 months ago, and neither of us are sharing expenses for our respective households.

A glimmer of hope? Or, maybe she's just kicking the can down the road?

Still hinging of every one of her words and analyzing each interaction.

Ugh...


----------



## Conrad

Still more work to do.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Still more work to do.


Yes. More work. 

And maybe a rebound to make me realize my stbxw is not the only woman on the planet ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes. More work.
> 
> And maybe a rebound to make me realize my stbxw is not the only woman on the planet ;-)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As a distraction only, I believe you are correct.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> As a distraction only, I believe you are correct.


Exactly. A pleasant distraction.

But, I'll need to pick my sorry ass off of the floor first...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Exactly. A pleasant distraction.
> 
> But, I'll need to pick my sorry ass off of the floor first...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You may want to book one of synthetic's trips first.

He tells me Iran is beautiful this time of year.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You may want to book one of synthetic's trips first.
> 
> He tells me Iran is beautiful this time of year.


Blowing out of town tomorrow actually. 

Rocky Mountains.

Good music and good beer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Blowing out of town tomorrow actually.
> 
> Rocky Mountains.
> 
> Good music and good beer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've never understood when someone tells me that isn't a downstream beer.

I advise them to give it 20 minutes.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> I've never understood when someone tells me that isn't a downstream beer.
> 
> I advise them to give it 20 minutes.


ROFL, Conrad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

Enjoy your trip, Spun. You deserve a good time.


----------



## spun

Just got back from some much needed fun.

Kind of bummed to be back in my mess of a life, but what can I do?

Did check in from my trip about the kids...sent a text that said tell them I miss them and I hope everything is ok.

stbxw responded saying she would tell the kids and to tell everyone on the trip (some long time mutual friends) that she says hi.

Also volunteered how crummy she felt from a recent medical procedure.

Really? Say hi to our friends that know how bad she has screwed over our family?

Does she really expect me to offer her some get well soon wishes?

Whatever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Just got back from some much needed fun.
> 
> Kind of bummed to be back in my mess of a life, but what can I do?
> 
> Did check in from my trip about the kids...sent a text that said tell them I miss them and I hope everything is ok.
> 
> stbxw responded saying she would tell the kids and to tell everyone on the trip (some long time mutual friends) that she says hi.
> 
> Also volunteered how crummy she felt from a recent medical procedure.
> 
> Really? Say hi to our friends that know how bad she has screwed over our family?
> 
> Does she really expect me to offer her some get well soon wishes?
> 
> Whatever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad you had a good time, Spun. You deserved it. Looks like your STBX doesn't get what she has done....yet.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Just got back from some much needed fun.
> 
> Kind of bummed to be back in my mess of a life, but what can I do?
> 
> Did check in from my trip about the kids...sent a text that said tell them I miss them and I hope everything is ok.
> 
> stbxw responded saying she would tell the kids and to tell everyone on the trip (some long time mutual friends) that she says hi.
> 
> Also volunteered how crummy she felt from a recent medical procedure.
> 
> Really? Say hi to our friends that know how bad she has screwed over our family?
> 
> Does she really expect me to offer her some get well soon wishes?
> 
> Whatever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not enough times to hit the like button for this one.

Good man.

Notice where "her" focus is.

No need for you to focus there also. She's got it covered.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Not enough times to hit the like button for this one.
> 
> Good man.
> 
> Notice where "her" focus is.
> 
> No need for you to focus there also. She's got it covered.


Just told me that her life is perfect the way that it is right now.

Nice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Just told me that her life is perfect the way that it is right now.
> 
> Nice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure it is.


----------



## 06Daddio08

It's so great she has to convince herself by telling you.


----------



## spun

I am the root of all the trouble between us you see.

The relationship with posOM has nothing to do with anything between us.

It's all my fault she walked out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I am the root of all the trouble between us you see.
> 
> The relationship with posOM has nothing to do with anything between us.
> 
> It's all my fault she walked out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spun,

I'm not sure how much of Lifescript's story has interested you.

He's the "Explainer in Chief" on this board. Don't worry, he already knows I really like him.

But, what he's come to realize is something very important here. She isn't telling you that to convince you.

She's telling you that to CONVINCE HER.

That's what insecure blameshifters do.


----------



## Justadude

spun said:


> I am the root of all the trouble between us you see.
> 
> The relationship with posOM has nothing to do with anything between us.
> 
> It's all my fault she walked out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like the classic narcissist.


----------



## Conrad

Justadude said:


> Sounds like the classic narcissist.


Likely just an emotionally broken partner who is used to getting her ass kissed because she's attractive.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Likely just an emotionally broken partner who is used to getting her ass kissed because she's attractive.


I have no idea what the hell she is anymore. Questioning whether I ever did.

The whole situation is a bottomless pit to nowhere...

Pull away, get sucked back in.

Try to "fix" it, get pushed away.

I'm so tired of caring.


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> I have no idea what the hell she is anymore. Questioning whether I ever did.
> 
> The whole situation is a bottomless pit to nowhere...
> 
> Pull away, get sucked back in.
> 
> Try to "fix" it, get pushed away.
> 
> I'm so tired of caring.


All of that is in your control when you're ready.


----------



## spun

UpnOver said:


> All of that is in your control when you're ready.


Right. 

Do nothing.

That's my only option.

So disheartening.


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> Right.
> 
> Do nothing.
> 
> That's my only option.
> 
> So disheartening.


That's soley based on your perspective.

Let yourself have this pity party for now.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Right.
> 
> Do nothing.
> 
> That's my only option.
> 
> So disheartening.


That's not quite it.

Realize your life is a gift - and live it.

"Bracket" your pain and you'll find it doesn't control you.


----------



## spun

The past two days have been interesting to say the very least.

Something is going on in her head. I started sensing something last week, like she wants to start coming around, but is scared.

I went out on limb, and wrote her a heartfelt card. I know 2 x 4 material. But, it really seemed like the thing do based on what I have been observing.

Well, she floored me this morning when I saw her. She suggested we go to counseling. Said she can't understand how I could have really loved her all these years, while doing the things that I did (unhealthy expression of my anger). Also, said she having a hard time wrapping her head around why all of the sudden now I am so committed to making changes to better our marriage. 

I told her that I had to get outside of our situation and hit bottom in order to truly examine and confront my issues. She's having a hard time seeing this, and wants to explore it in counseling.

I am excited, but nervous all in the same because I am not sure what is going on. She is seeing changes in me that are attractive? The fog in fantasy land is fading?

Definitely feeling guarded about how to move forward from here.


----------



## Conrad

spun,

posOM has got to go.

That's Step #1

Nothing happens until that does.


----------



## 06Daddio08

I agree.

Posom needs to be out for this to work.


----------



## Conrad

UpnOver said:


> I agree.
> 
> Posom needs to be out for this to work.


Cool, firm, dispassionate

"I'm not ok with any of this until posOM is out of the picture"


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> spun,
> 
> posOM has got to go.
> 
> That's Step #1
> 
> Nothing happens until that does.


So I refuse to go until he is gone?

Can't I get her there first, then along with the counselor, say that she needs to go NC with him?

I feel like getting her in the door is the first hurdle. Then, I can work on getting the backing regarding posOM from the counselor.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So I refuse to go until he is gone?
> 
> Can't I get her there first, then along with the counselor, say that she needs to go NC with him?
> 
> I feel like getting her in the door is the first hurdle. Then, I can work on getting the backing regarding posOM from the counselor.


Cool...

Firm... 

Dispassionate....

posOM has got to go.

Going to counseling with him still in the picture allows her to "choose" her best option.

No good.

Think about it.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Cool...
> 
> Firm...
> 
> Dispassionate....
> 
> posOM has got to go.
> 
> Going to counseling with him still in the picture allows her to "choose" her best option.
> 
> No good.
> 
> Think about it.


Seems like she chooses either way, no?

At least in counseling, there would be backing that he needs to go or its futile.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Seems like she chooses either way, no?
> 
> At least in counseling, there would be backing that he needs to go or its futile.


Counseling will only work if the playing field is level.

You have no other "option".

She should not either.

In your heart, you know this, but are frightened.

Remember how it felt to tell her that "You're not ok paying for a divorce you don't want"?

This is the same conversation.


----------



## Frostflower

Spun, I'd be afraid too as she has made this move toward you. But maybe Conrad and Up are right. She needs to choose first. Can you explain to her that its marriage counselling and he is not part of the marriage?


----------



## Justadude

This is exactly what just happened to me! All of a sudden she was interested in going to MC. One thing that I did that helped…was I moved all of her remaining items in the house to the garage (she had moved out 3 weeks prior and hadn’t cleared all her stuff out.) This seemed to shock her, and it caused a heated 3 hour discussion which ended up with her suggesting MC. I did tell her she HAD to end the affair, or I was not going, and not trying. She did end it…going on almost 2 weeks now, and I still don't quite understand what happened. My suspicions are that something happened in the affair that triggered this….but we have our first MC session tomorrow, maybe it will come out.

Just as a word of caution, even though she agreed to MC, and stopped seeing the posOM, she is still shaky at best. One thing I did to test her, was push to get physical, she would never do this while with the posOM…so we have been together 3 times. But she still is telling me she lacks the emotional connection…ugh…but as long as I’m there, and he isn’t, and I’m marking my territory so to speak…there is a chance.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Counseling will only work if the playing field is level.
> 
> You have no other "option".
> 
> She should not either.
> 
> In your heart, you know this, but are frightened.
> 
> Remember how it felt to tell her that "You're not ok paying for a divorce you don't want"?
> 
> This is the same conversation.


I feel like these past six months have been like trying to get a bird to eat out of my hand. It's considering the approach. Now I am going to make a sudden, and threatening movement?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I feel like these past six months have been like trying to get a bird to eat out of my hand. It's considering the approach. Now I am going to make a sudden, and threatening movement?


When did you start to have success? When you acted weak?

Going to this while she's still banging posOM is a weak move.


----------



## Justadude

spun said:


> I feel like these past six months have been like trying to get a bird to eat out of my hand. It's considering the approach. Now I am going to make a sudden, and threatening movement?


Do it! You really have nothing to lose, if she wants to go to MC and still bang this other dude...would you really want that? Something is going on...now's the time to push.


----------



## 06Daddio08

I'm okay with going to counselling but I'm not okay with it while you are still with posom.


----------



## spun

Well her written communication has become much more light hearted in the pas two days.

She is now opening her email messages with "hi" and closing them with "me". Something she has not done in very long time. They have been very stern and all formal up until now.

Even wrote a message thanking me for the lovely card and saying what a sweet gesture it was. In the past any of my reaching out was either ignored or met with text storm of blame.

And, you guys are right. I am SO nervous about laying down demands right now.

I'm in knots, yet again. This ride always seems to get to me somehow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Justadude

spun said:


> Well her written communication has become much more light hearted in the pas two days.
> 
> She is now opening her email messages with "hi" and closing them with "me". Something she has not done in very long time. They have been very stern and all formal up until now.
> 
> Even wrote a message thanking me for the lovely card and saying what a sweet gesture it was. In the past any of my reaching out was either ignored or met with text storm of blame.
> 
> And, you guys are right. I am SO nervous about laying down demands right now.
> 
> I'm in knots, yet again. This ride always seems to get to me somehow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is a great sign Spun!!!! Something is happening behind the scenes, a shift is taking place.


----------



## Conrad

UpnOver said:


> I'm okay with going to counselling but I'm not okay with it while you are still with posom.


Say this... or you'll be sorry.

You'll always wonder.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Say this... or you'll be sorry.
> 
> You'll always wonder.


Wonder what exactly?


----------



## StillRemains

I've been following and just want to say I'm pulling for you, spun. I have no advice since I haven't been able to confirm posOW in my situation, but I do feel you need to have posOM out of the way in order to get the results you want in MC. My stomach is in knots for you!


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Wonder what exactly?


Whether she respects you enough to listen.

Sounds like you're still afraid of her response.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Whether she respects you enough to listen.
> 
> Sounds like you're still afraid of her response.


You see, the thing is for six months every time I have brought posOM up, she shuts the conversation down. Her respect for me must growing again, because she was the one who suggested we go to counseling. So she seems to be listening for a change.

She's scared to let me back in, in fear that we will end up back in our toxic dance that underlies her vulnerability for the affair.

She's always been big on advice from "authorities". I feel like getting her there and addressing that posOM must go in a "safe" environment with backing from a professional may be the way to go.

I get her to the first visit and get her to open up. Then say I am all for pursuing things further, but posOM needs to go, or else I am not OK with continuing.

Guess, the 2 x 4s are coming my way....


----------



## 06Daddio08

> Originally Posted by spun<br />
> Wonder what exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> <br />
> <br />
> Whether she respects you enough to listen.<br />
> <br />
> Sounds like you're still afraid of her response.
Click to expand...

Seeing how I haven't experienced this, you can take it for what it is.

Going to MC or any form of therapy for the sake of trying to save your marriage needs to be based on a new solid foundation.

How do you get this foundation?

With your boundaries.

Do you really want this ending up the same way again even if it "works out"?

Yes, you two will need to hash out all your problems, but new solutions (based on boundaries) can lead you both down a much better path together.

True remorse on both ends.

The ability to listen, analyze and reflect back on what you are and aren't okay with WITHOUT considering how she will "take it" from my opinion is key.

This isn't a situation like you two going out to buy a car and disagreeing on the colour it should be.



So your first test has already begun in regards to boundaries and foundation.

"I would like for us to go to MC". Is what she said.

Now, think about what YOU want and compare her words to her actions.

If she's still with posom then her words mean nothing.

Actions > words.

Are you okay with her having another man on the side while doing this?

If she can't respect this obvious boundary from the start then no one, not a therapist or Jesus himself can convince her otherwise.


----------



## Conrad

What if she feels like you brought her there with an agenda and you set her up to look bad to the counselor?

(That's how she will feel)


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> What if she feels like you brought her there with an agenda and you set her up to look bad to the counselor?
> 
> (That's how she will feel)


She knows my stance on posOM. I have verbalized more than once that we can't get to the underlying issues that got us to where we are with him in the picture.

She knows, without question, that he will come up.


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> She knows my stance on posOM. I have verbalized more than once that we can't get to the underlying issues that got us to where we are with him in the picture.
> 
> She knows, without question, that he will come up.


Did she know this before suggesting?

If so, did she confirm that he's out?

Because if not.

Absolutely no respect is being shewn for you and this is all about her.


----------



## gearhead65

Spun,

I'm reading a lot of supposition. I was recently in your situation also. Wife was finally warming up to me and I thought we were really going to have a chance. Here is the problem with what I see in your writing. It is all me-centric. I did this...so now she's responding. You have no idea why she is warming up. It could be that her and the OM are on the ropes and she's looking for another life preserver. She's likely desperate to do anything she can to not have everything fall apart and really work on herself.

The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to feel like if she goes back to him because "things just aren't working and are never going to change." Or are you willing to settle for her still being in love with him for some time.

They'll give a nice speech about how they never stopped loving you, but if she's not willing to discuss the OM or cut off contact then she's stringing both of you along. 

I'm giving you things to look out for. If you think that counseling is appropriate at this time go for it, but don't be surprised if you get there and all the problems are being thrown at you and she doesn't want to talk about her.

GearHead


----------



## spun

gearhead65 said:


> Spun,
> 
> I'm reading a lot of supposition. I was recently in your situation also. Wife was finally warming up to me and I thought we were really going to have a chance. Here is the problem with what I see in your writing. It is all me-centric. I did this...so now she's responding. You have no idea why she is warming up. It could be that her and the OM are on the ropes and she's looking for another life preserver. She's likely desperate to do anything she can to not have everything fall apart and really work on herself.
> 
> The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to feel like if she goes back to him because "things just aren't working and are never going to change." Or are you willing to settle for her still being in love with him for some time.
> 
> They'll give a nice speech about how they never stopped loving you, but if she's not willing to discuss the OM or cut off contact then she's stringing both of you along.
> 
> I'm giving you things to look out for. If you think that counseling is appropriate at this time go for it, but don't be surprised if you get there and all the problems are being thrown at you and she doesn't want to talk about her.
> 
> GearHead


A couple of things I think my situation has going for me.

The posOM lives over 1000 miles away. So, its not like they can just hop in the car and see each other whenever. That said, based on what I have read, I think some problems detaching from and AP are to be expected, even among people who have good intentions for reconciling.

We have both been in IC and working on our individual issues. So that's good. We have been doing self work that we can bring to the table in couples counseling.

I suspect I will have to take the heat some to get her to open up. And, to be honest, my actions did have a pretty significant role in screwing up our marriage. Does not relieve her of her choice to have an affair, though. So, she is going to have to own that.


----------



## spun

Well that glimpse of light was short lived.

Went to pick up the kids. 

Stbxw: "did you confirm the time of our next mediation appt?", and "did you see that home for sale down the block... It looks perfect for one of us"

Me: "I thought you said you wanted to give counseling a chance?"

Stbxw: "yes, but for coparenting, we are getting divorced".

Whatever. That's not even close to how the conversation went 2 days ago.

But of course I am the crazy irrational one in all this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

I'm so sorry, Spun. She really got your hopes up. Is she just inconsiderate or is she playing some kind of cruel game?


----------



## Justadude

I bet this is related to the posOM. Maybe they worked out their issue...temporarily. But there are cracks In the fantasy, and I would expect another swing back...but it may be hard to hang in there for. Sorry Spun, you deserve better treatment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Whatever. That's not even close to how the conversation went 2 days ago.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cool

Firm

Dispassionate

Realize who and what you are dealing with.

As soon as she gave you a bone, you were going to fold.

It does work.. but you simply must stay the course and love yourself enough to not permit her to abuse you.


----------



## 06Daddio08

My heart goes out to you Spun.

I'm sorry to hear.


----------



## spun

It's now obvious why she flipped so quickly. She has a hotel room...posOM came into town.

Sitting in the lobby now. Going to politely ask this dude how he feels about playing a role in breaking up a family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Justadude

spun said:


> It's now obvious why she flipped so quickly. She has a hotel room...posOM came into town.
> 
> Sitting in the lobby now. Going to politely ask this dude how he feels about playing a role in breaking up a family.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck Brother!


----------



## Justadude

spun said:


> It's now obvious why she flipped so quickly. She has a hotel room...posOM came into town.
> 
> Sitting in the lobby now. Going to politely ask this dude how he feels about playing a role in breaking up a family.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please give us an update...your friends here are all pulling for you. I don't know if you are a religoius man, but I'm sending up some prayers.


----------



## Mark72

This may be a non-Christian thing to say, but i sincerely hope Spun knocks the posOM on his can...


----------



## Conrad

This type of thing is the opposite of:

Cool

Firm

Dispassionate


----------



## ImStillHere

Conrad said:


> This type of thing is the opposite of:
> 
> Cool
> 
> Firm
> 
> Dispassionate


:iagree:

The posOM is not to blame for the breakup of the marriage. That is your STBXW's doing. Yes, he played a role...because SHE ALLOWED him to do so. 

Confronting him will do no good in the long run. He obviously doesn't care how his actions affect(ed) your marriage. If he did, he wouldn't be involved with your wife.


----------



## Mark72

ImStillHere said:


> :iagree:
> 
> The posOM is not to blame for the breakup of the marriage. That is your STBXW's doing. Yes, he played a role...because SHE ALLOWED him to do so.
> 
> Confronting him will do no good in the long run. He obviously doesn't care how his actions affect(ed) your marriage. If he did, he wouldn't be involved with your wife.


Right or wrong, I am very much a pacifist, but I would not be able to look the posOM in the eye without "dotting" it for him... 
I'm just being honest.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> This type of thing is the opposite of:
> 
> Cool
> 
> Firm
> 
> Dispassionate



Don't worry did not do it. Got a hold of myself and walked out before I saw anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

I need to resign myself that there really is nothing I can do to put the train back on the tracks.

Do I have some responsibility in the decay of our marriage?

Absolutely.

But her self absorption that led to the crap with posOM...thats all her.

And it is the reason we are where we are today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Don't worry did not do it. Got a hold of myself and walked out before I saw anyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good man.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Don't worry did not do it. Got a hold of myself and walked out before I saw anyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You did the right thing, Spun. You are better than that.


----------



## spun

Last night was a very rough one.

The nerve of my stbxw is nothung less than amazing.

Made a call to a local realtor about some houses in our neighborhood that are for sale.

Turns out she has been waltzing around looking at houses with posOM the past two days.

I called her on it. A heated discussion over the phone ensued. I was late picking the kids up so things could cool off, at which time she started sending me aggressive texts about what a self absorbed and pathetic excuse of a father I was. Nice. She was obviously upset because she had plans with posOM in town that were getting screwed up.

Does she see the irony here? She has made the ultimate selfish choice, to break up a family.

That's my blame shifting queen.

I gotta be done with this already. 

Good luck with the fantasy honey. I won't pick you up when it comes crashing down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Focus still on her.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Focus still on her.


Yes. It's not so easy to walk away from 15 years of trying to please her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## our vision shattered

spun said:


> Yes. It's not so easy to walk away from 15 years of trying to please her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


so freaking true spun, so freaking true :iagree: :scratchhead:


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Yes. It's not so easy to walk away from 15 years of trying to please her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Work on yourself and, little by little, your focus will shift.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Work on yourself and, little by little, your focus will shift.


Thanks Frost.

How is going with you and R? Have not heard much about you recently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Thanks Frost.
> 
> How is going with you and R? Have not heard much about you recently.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for asking, Spun. I just updated my thread.


----------



## spun

Will drop the kids off today. Unfortunately, that means I will see her.

I was getting stronger, but I have backslid considerably.

I am having a very hard time letting go and accepting things for what they really are...broken beyond the point of no return.

So tired of caring. And the alternating anger and sadness...I need to move past it all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SCsweety81

Spun -

My heart hurts for you. I know how you feel. I'm only six weeks in (this time), but one day I'm so mad I would sign the papers right then, and the next day I'm broken and miss him terribly. Separation and impending divorce is a twisted, sick game.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Will drop the kids off today. Unfortunately, that means I will see her.
> 
> I was getting stronger, but I have backslid considerably.
> 
> I am having a very hard time letting go and accepting things for what they really are...broken beyond the point of no return.
> 
> So tired of caring. And the alternating anger and sadness...I need to move past it all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hang in there, Spun. It will get better. Unfortunately backsliding is often a part of progress. But eventually the forward movements will take you further than the backward ones.

Hug.


----------



## spun

What's this?

I actually am feeling like I may be better off without her.

Must be my first step into the light of indifference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> What's this?
> 
> I actually am feeling like I may be better off without her.
> 
> Must be my first step into the light of indifference.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let's see.... she cheated with posOM and left you like a dog out in the yard.

I'm thinking I agree with your new outlook.


----------



## muskrat

Spun the reality is that we are all probably better off with out our ex's. They have proved themselves to be unworthy of our love and commitment. It is fear that stops us from moving on, fear of the unknown, of the extra effort that being a single parent brings, of the hurt our children feel. In general just a fear of leaving our comfortable stable family lives behind and venturing out on our own. We also fear being alone, never finding that special someone to enjoy life with. So we choose to stay in a bad situation with the devil we know instead of facing our fears. I don't know what the future holds it could be great things or it could be a life full of misery, but I do know that misery is what we now have and the future as scary as it is can't be much worse.


----------



## Justadude

muskrat said:


> Spun the reality is that we are all probably better off with out our ex's. They have proved themselves to be unworthy of our love and commitment. It is fear that stops us from moving on, fear of the unknown, of the extra effort that being a single parent brings, of the hurt our children feel. In general just a fear of leaving our comfortable stable family lives behind and venturing out on our own. We also fear being alone, never finding that special someone to enjoy life with. So we choose to stay in a bad situation with the devil we know instead of facing our fears. I don't know what the future holds it could be great things or it could be a life full of misery, but I do know that misery is what we now have and the future as scary as it is can't be much worse.


This is so true Muskrat, and I've come to this same conclusion myself. I think part of this process is to bottom out, and to have nothing left to give. Thats the point I needed to reach in order to give up this path of insanity. I did everything in my power to "fix it" and I couldn't. Let them go, and I'm going to try to not be bitter, or wish her ill...my goal is to not think about her at all. Just erase my co-dependent feelings for her, and free myself of the bondage of my own emotions, and then hopefully build up a healthy person that has a good liife....with or withoout someone else.


----------



## spun

4 mile run under my belt for the day. Really needed it to get out the anger.

Cleared my head. 

Can't fix this.

And, I guess I'll have to be OK with that.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> What's this?
> 
> I actually am feeling like I may be better off without her.
> 
> Must be my first step into the light of indifference.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Go into the light, Spun. Go into the light!


----------



## Mr Blunt

Spun

You have been disrespected BIG TIME!!
You have issues to work on for yourself
That is plain to see. We get it!


*You are going to have to make a firm decision to concentrate on you getting better and getting your wife out of your mind.* You are so consumed with the emotional bondage that your wife has helped put you in that you are wasting all that energy on a battle that is driving your wife further away and you into total emotional collapse

*Face reality, grow some balls, and get busy using your emotional and physical energy on getting you better so that you can be of help for your children and yourself.* Is it hard? HELL YES. But worrying about it being hard will do nothing but keep you from going forward. Of course you will still be tempted to focus on your wife but you have a free will that can change that. Millions have done it and so can you!

Bottom line:
If you do not go 100% in the direction of getting over your wife and then building yourself up body, mind, and spirit, then you will become a dish rag or a door mat. Then you will be no good for anyone. *You are a good man so get some help and concentrate on you and your children ONLY!!! * That is your reality now it is time to act; it is do or die time!


*“When does it get better?”
When YOU take the right actions!!![/*


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

Mr Blunt said:


> Spun
> 
> You have been disrespected BIG TIME!!
> You have issues to work on for yourself
> That is plain to see. We get it!
> 
> 
> *You are going to have to make a firm decision to concentrate on you getting better and getting your wife out of your mind.* You are so consumed with the emotional bondage that your wife has helped put you in that you are wasting all that energy on a battle that is driving your wife further away and you into total emotional collapse
> 
> *Face reality, grow some balls, and get busy using your emotional and physical energy on getting you better so that you can be of help for your children and yourself.* Is it hard? HELL YES. But worrying about it being hard will do nothing but keep you from going forward. Of course you will still be tempted to focus on your wife but you have a free will that can change that. Millions have done it and so can you!
> 
> Bottom line:
> If you do not go 100% in the direction of getting over your wife and then building yourself up body, mind, and spirit, then you will become a dish rag or a door mat. Then you will be no good for anyone. *You are a good man so get some help and concentrate on you and your children ONLY!!! * That is your reality now it is time to act; it is do or die time!
> 
> 
> *“When does it get better?”
> When YOU take the right actions!!![/*


Spun,

you and i are kindred spirits. I have been falling off the wagon and onto my face for the last 2 months. chasing..begging for a 2nd chance basically acting like a pathetic wretch who can live without her. we will not being to heal until we realize that the hole in us cannot be filled by anyone but us. we are longing for that hole to be filled so badly that we are willing to overlook everything that has been done to us in order to get them back. truth is that until we fill ourselves up and become whole and ok with ourselves that could never happen. in my case if she said today that she wanted me back I would be in a state of panic. she still hasn't owned anything. would you really want her back before that? its not until they fall flat on their faces and realize what they left behind it will never work in the mean time we need to focus on ourselves knowing that we can't control anything but ourselves. I know all of this but am having a hard time following my own thoughts. best of luck...you are not alone.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Times like this I wish I never deleted my other 2 threads.

You guys could have used it.


----------



## Conrad

UpnOver said:


> Times like this I wish I never deleted my other 2 threads.
> 
> You guys could have used it.


That's why my "like" total went down so much!


----------



## spun

Its kind of serendipitous that MB should make such a post, because two days ago I finally really internalized that it is ridiculous to allow this woman to sap all my energy away from me. I deserve to be whole again. 

The guilt that I have allowed her to lay on me, I am done with it. So what, I am human and screwed up some along the way. I own it and I am forgiving myself for it.

Not an ounce of accountability on her part.

That's her problem, not mine.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Conrad said:


> That's why my "like" total went down so much!


That and 2,000-2,500 posts total.. lol.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Its kind of serendipitous that MB should make such a post, because two days ago I finally really internalized that it is ridiculous to allow this woman to sap all my energy away from me. I deserve to be whole again.
> 
> The guilt that I have allowed her to lay on me, I am done with it. So what, I am human and screwed up some along the way. I own it and I am forgiving myself for it.
> 
> Not an ounce of accountability on her part.
> 
> That's her problem, not mine.


Sounds like you are well on your way t being whole again, Spun. She may never be.


----------



## spun

Just got back from my kids therapy session.

They are doing well through all this.

Therapist and I talked a little about stbx and I and our interactions.

She said that my stbxw is very angry with me now and will probably be for a long time.

Really? What the heck does she have to be angry at? She has her new prince charming and is getting what she has been dreaming of--a life without me.

The more time that passes, I am beginning to see that what she presents on the outside has always been nothing but a veneer.

I'm not going to lie and say my heart does not still ache. But, I think that I am missing a fantasy of what I thought I had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Justadude

spun said:


> I'm not going to lie and say my heart does not still ache. But, I think that I am missing a fantasy of what I thought I had.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm thinking the same way...what I thought I had was an illusion. One thing to think about, if you are this affected after all that you know...how badly were you manipulated by her when you were "happily" married? If she has this much power over you now, it's not something that happened over night.


----------



## 2ntnuf

spun said:


> Just got back from my kids therapy session.
> 
> They are doing well through all this.
> 
> Therapist and I talked a little about stbx and I and our interactions.
> 
> *She said that my stbxw is very angry with me now and will probably be for a long time.
> 
> Really? What the heck does she have to be angry at? She has her new prince charming and is getting what she has been dreaming of--a life without me.*
> 
> The more time that passes, I am beginning to see that what she presents on the outside has always been nothing but a veneer.
> 
> I'm not going to lie and say my heart does not still ache. But, I think that I am missing a fantasy of what I thought I had.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad your children are doing alright.

Wanted to share that my ex feels the same. Seems weird. I never understood it.


----------



## Frostflower

Maybe she's mad because she doesn't have him to manipulate any more.


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> Just got back from my kids therapy session.
> 
> They are doing well through all this.
> 
> Therapist and I talked a little about stbx and I and our interactions.
> 
> She said that my stbxw is very angry with me now and will probably be for a long time.
> 
> Really? What the heck does she have to be angry at? She has her new prince charming and is getting what she has been dreaming of--a life without me.
> 
> The more time that passes, I am beginning to see that what she presents on the outside has always been nothing but a veneer.
> 
> I'm not going to lie and say my heart does not still ache. But, I think that I am missing a fantasy of what I thought I had.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Projected anger.

She's mad at herself.

Well actually, she's probably mad at everyone else (the projection) because her 'life didn't turn out like she wanted'.

Thing is though, she most likely had no idea what she wanted in life to begin with but eventually that light in the rear view starts to fade into the distance and she goes from being in the driver seat to being in the passenger seat.

All of a sudden, you've been driving this entire time and it's all your fault!



Justadude said:


> I'm thinking the same way...what I thought I had was an illusion. One thing to think about, if you are this affected after all that you know...how badly were you manipulated by her when you were "happily" married? If she has this much power over you now, it's not something that happened over night.


Granted manipulation was done on her part.

But it was also done on your side as well.

It's also not really an illusion, more like a delusion.

Once you can honestly take ownership for the things you have done in the past, which also includes ALLOWING yourself to be controlled, manipulated and gas lighted, you will start to feel a lot better.



2ntnuf said:


> Glad your children are doing alright.
> 
> Wanted to share that my ex feels the same. Seems weird. I never understood it.


There isn't anything to understand about her.

Start to understand why you reacted to things the way you did.

Like I said, yes they have manipulated and controlled but that's because you let them get away with it.

At one time we probably had balls, but then we handed them over and got upset because they didn't respect us.

We are to blame for the passing of our genitals.

Not them.


----------



## spun

Well I have managed not to speak to the stbxw or see her in 3 days despite multiple switches with the kids. 

I think it is making a difference in my mood. 

Spending more time in what I think is acceptance space, feeling like I am going to be ok. 

Of course, I still enter that crazy delusional hope space throughout the day. But, I am quickly catching myself and bringing myself back to the present. And, the present is a place where I have been treated really poorly. 

I think that is helping me make progress with detaching.


----------



## spun

Have to make the pickup of the kids later today.

Going on day 4 of no contact.

Feeling anxious. Hoping she does not try to engage about anything, because I am feeling edgy today. Don't want to fall of the nc wagon.

Sucks this is the only way forward now.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Have to make the pickup of the kids later today.
> 
> Going on day 4 of no contact.
> 
> Feeling anxious. Hoping she does not try to engage about anything, because I am feeling edgy today. Don't want to fall of the nc wagon.
> 
> Sucks this is the only way forward now.


50,000 feet - observe


----------



## spun

Another detached exchange last night. It is helping. My thoughts don't loop as much.

Not even close to being out of the woods though. Still wondering if she is "noticing", and my strong feelings for her are not even close to dead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Another detached exchange last night. It is helping. My thoughts don't loop as much.
> 
> Not even close to being out of the woods though. Still wondering if she is "noticing", and my strong feelings for her are not even close to dead.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's a process.

Be patient with yourself.

It beats the hell you were in, doesn't it?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> It's a process.
> 
> Be patient with yourself.
> 
> It beats the hell you were in, doesn't it?


For sure.

Having more thoughts about how I lost my dignity in this whole thing. The need to convince her. Why would I want someone like this?

Still fantasize that things between her and posOM will eventually not seem all that rosey.

She pushed for the second mediation meeting about 3 weeks ago. I said its not a priority for me right now. I have important projects at work.

She has not pushed again since.

Don't want to read into anything.

Just going to sit back and watch her for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

spun said:


> For sure.
> 
> Having more thoughts about how I lost my dignity in this whole thing. The need to convince her. Why would I want someone like this?
> 
> Still fantasize that things between her and posOM will eventually not seem all that rosey.
> 
> She pushed for the second mediation meeting about 3 weeks ago. I said its not a priority for me right now. I have important projects at work.
> 
> She has not pushed again since.
> 
> Don't want to read into anything.
> 
> Just going to sit back and watch her for a while.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay strong buddy. I know it is hard. I feel the exact same way. I know it is something I shouldn't want, and am not even sure I could go back to, but struggling never the less. The loss is the hardest part to get over. We will get thru this.


----------



## Conrad

spun,

She and posOM have no realistic chance of working out.

Waiting around is still a bad strategy for you.

Yet, detaching is a process. Stay the course.


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

Conrad said:


> spun,
> 
> She and posOM have no realistic chance of working out.
> 
> Waiting around is still a bad strategy for you.
> 
> Yet, detaching is a process. Stay the course.



Conrad,

How do we let go but hope at the same time?


----------



## Conrad

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Conrad,
> 
> How do we let go but hope at the same time?


We finish the jobs of building ourselves into men.

Should they notice, all the better. We'll be up to the challenge.


----------



## Solon

Spun,

So how did you manage to get through it? I imagine having some contact with her helped. My wife wants NOTHING to do with me. Will not talk to me to save her life. She told our pastor that I am a "word magician" and if she talks to me I will convince her to come home. She told our other pastor that she is attracted to me and if she sees me she would want to have sex with me and that would not be good. So I cannot see her or talk to her and it is DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!!

She says the marriage is over. She will not talk to me. She will not do counseling. She blocked my numbers. I am dead! How do you manage? How did you get over the thought of another man making love to your wife? How does it happen? We are both 38. Why would she want to end our marriage at this age? Just last month we were making love and she was telling me how her world revolves around me and how much she loves me. Today, she won't even talk to me.

Maybe it is all my fault. I was working way too hard and not giving her the attention she deserved. But where is her forgiveness??? It's not like I slapped her. It's like I cursed at her. It's not like I cheated on her. Even with my working, I made a point to always have conversations with her and hold her and give her advice and be a mate to her. Why would she leave me? This is driving me INSANE!


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> Spun,
> 
> So how did you manage to get through it? I imagine having some contact with her helped. My wife wants NOTHING to do with me. Will not talk to me to save her life. She told our pastor that I am a "word magician" and if she talks to me I will convince her to come home. She told our other pastor that she is attracted to me and if she sees me she would want to have sex with me and that would not be good. So I cannot see her or talk to her and it is DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!!
> 
> She says the marriage is over. She will not talk to me. She will not do counseling. She blocked my numbers. I am dead! How do you manage? How did you get over the thought of another man making love to your wife? How does it happen? We are both 38. Why would she want to end our marriage at this age? Just last month we were making love and she was telling me how her world revolves around me and how much she loves me. Today, she won't even talk to me.
> 
> Maybe it is all my fault. I was working way too hard and not giving her the attention she deserved. But where is her forgiveness??? It's not like I slapped her. It's like I cursed at her. It's not like I cheated on her. Even with my working, I made a point to always have conversations with her and hold her and give her advice and be a mate to her. Why would she leave me? This is driving me INSANE!


I'm not even close to being through it or over it. 

Consider your lack of contact a blessing.

I see my stbxw several times a week to switch the kids.

I used to engage in conversation with her and my mind would be crazy afterwards. Only now that I am limiting interaction with her am I beginning to get my footing.

There is nothing you can do to convince them.

The sooner you can really accept that, the sooner you will be free.

We hold the keys to our happiness. Not them.


----------



## Solon

You know, I coached JV and V basketball for 5 years. I won 3 championships during that time. I retired last year after winning it all again. Felt great. Walking away from the game on top.

I have accomplished much in 38 years of life. I'm a lawyer, real estate mogul, drive a Lotus that only one other person in the world has. I live in a house bigger than I can ever imagine. I'm at the top of my game. What better time to walk away than now.


----------



## Conrad

Solon said:


> Spun,
> 
> So how did you manage to get through it? I imagine having some contact with her helped. My wife wants NOTHING to do with me. Will not talk to me to save her life. She told our pastor that I am a "word magician" and if she talks to me I will convince her to come home. She told our other pastor that she is attracted to me and if she sees me she would want to have sex with me and that would not be good. So I cannot see her or talk to her and it is DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!!
> 
> She says the marriage is over. She will not talk to me. She will not do counseling. She blocked my numbers. I am dead! How do you manage? How did you get over the thought of another man making love to your wife? How does it happen? We are both 38. Why would she want to end our marriage at this age? Just last month we were making love and she was telling me how her world revolves around me and how much she loves me. Today, she won't even talk to me.
> 
> Maybe it is all my fault. I was working way too hard and not giving her the attention she deserved. But where is her forgiveness??? It's not like I slapped her. It's like I cursed at her. It's not like I cheated on her. Even with my working, I made a point to always have conversations with her and hold her and give her advice and be a mate to her. Why would she leave me? This is driving me INSANE!


What was her childhood like?


----------



## Frostflower

How's it going, Spun?


----------



## spun

Same old, same old here. 

Stbxw is out of state again with posOM.

I'm here with my girls while she enjoys fantasy life.

The good thing is I am finally realizing this is not about me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

spun said:


> Same old, same old here.
> 
> Stbxw is out of state again with posOM.
> 
> I'm here with my girls while she enjoys fantasy life.
> 
> The good thing is I am finally realizing this is not about me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is it about?


----------



## Frostflower

Solon said:


> What is it about?


Its about his stbxw having an affair with someone else. Its about her personality and her problems affecting a man and his children. Its about her unwillingness to try to fix things even though he has tried.

Sorry, Spun, shouldn't speak for you, but does that about cover it?


----------



## our vision shattered

thinking of ya spun, how ya doing


----------



## spun

The big 40th for me today! Life sure can change on a dime.

Got a happy birthday text from the stbxw. 

Is she kidding?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> The big 40th for me today! Life sure can change on a dime.
> 
> Got a happy birthday text from the stbxw.
> 
> Is she kidding?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's for her, not for you.

I hope you didn't answer.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> It's for her, not for you.
> 
> I hope you didn't answer.


Yes, it is always about her.

No I did not answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes, it is always about her.
> 
> No I did not answer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BTW - Happy Birthday. For real.

You're stepping into a new world.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> BTW - Happy Birthday. For real.
> 
> You're stepping into a new world.


Thanks. And, thanks for being there through all this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash

Happy Birthday Spun!


----------



## Solon

Happy B-day, Spun!!!!! Let's go celebrate!!


----------



## SCsweety81

Happy birthday, Spun!


----------



## muskrat

happy birthday Spun!!!


----------



## ImStillHere

Happy birthday!!!


----------



## our vision shattered

happy birthday spun, having a cold one in your honor out here in cali, surfs up bro & welcome to the 40's


----------



## Frostflower

Hey, Spun, Happy Birthday! Its my birthday too, although not my 40th (enough said!).

Hope you had a good day, you young whippersnapper you!


----------



## our vision shattered

Frostflower said:


> Hey, Spun, Happy Birthday! Its my birthday too, although not my 40th (enough said!).
> 
> Hope you had a good day, you young whippersnapper you!


happy birthday frostflower, remember forever 21 :smthumbup:


----------



## Frostflower

our vision shattered said:


> happy birthday frostflower, remember forever 21 :smthumbup:


lol I wish! Well, actually, it would be nice to have the 21 year-old body housing the ** year old knowledge of life. Wouldn't want to have to go through all that learning again. Once was enough!

Thank for the birthday wishes!


----------



## 06Daddio08

Happy birthday to both of you!


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Hey, Spun, Happy Birthday! Its my birthday too, although not my 40th (enough said!).
> 
> Hope you had a good day, you young whippersnapper you!


Hope it was a great one for you too, Frost.

How are things with R?

I am guessing no news from you is good news?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Justadude

Happy Belated Birthday Spun!!! We all think the world of you!


----------



## Conrad

Justadude said:


> Happy Belated Birthday Spun!!! We all think the world of you!


How are you brother?


----------



## Justadude

Conrad said:


> How are you brother?


Doing well, thanks Conrad! I guess it's time for an update from me on my situation.


----------



## Conrad

Justadude said:


> Doing well, thanks Conrad! I guess it's time for an update from me on my situation.


Indeed.


----------



## spun

Actually think I almost just about sick of this.

Never thought the day would come.

It's now in plain view.


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Hope it was a great one for you too, Frost.
> 
> How are things with R?
> 
> I am guessing no news from you is good news?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No news is good news, Spun! Lot of work still to do, but its good. Thanks for asking.


----------



## spun

Ugh!

Crumbs...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Ugh!
> 
> Crumbs...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Care to elaborate?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Care to elaborate?


She has started talking ambiguously about "us" again, exactly like she did at the beginning of our separation.

This in place of months of certainty that we have no future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Justadude

spun said:


> She has started talking ambiguously about "us" again, exactly like she did at the beginning of our separation.
> 
> This in place of months of certainty that we have no future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brother, you need to keep on detaching...this is a little hopeful sign, but she still needs to come back to you, and there is still a long way for her to come. You've done everything you can...now it's time to detach...work on yourself, and see if God brings her back. Accept it either way, if so great, if not, there is a new Spun who will meet someone better.

I've learned this after dozens of people saying the same thing to me...but it wasn't until I bottomed out that I could do it. Hang in there...we are ALL on YOUR side!


----------



## Eternal Embrace

Justadude said:


> Hang in there...we are ALL on YOUR side!


That's right!!!

You got this, Spun!

Either way it ends up you're going to come out a better person on the other side!


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> She has started talking ambiguously about "us" again, exactly like she did at the beginning of our separation.
> 
> This in place of months of certainty that we have no future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay cool, firm, dispassionate.

You may even want to say the following: "I'm not ok with any talk of a future 'us' with posOM still in the picture"


----------



## spun

Justadude said:


> Brother, you need to keep on detaching...this is a little hopeful sign, but she still needs to come back to you, and there is still a long way for her to come. You've done everything you can...now it's time to detach...work on yourself, and see if God brings her back. Accept it either way, if so great, if not, there is a new Spun who will meet someone better.
> 
> I've learned this after dozens of people saying the same thing to me...but it wasn't until I bottomed out that I could do it. Hang in there...we are ALL on YOUR side!


Certainly don't see it as anything with real meaning. It's just a little frustrating because I was finally starting to feel fine with things.

A couple of months ago something like this would have had me all messed up.

Not now, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Stay cool, firm, dispassionate.
> 
> You may even want to say the following: "I'm not ok with any talk of a future 'us' with posOM still in the picture"


I have no intention of even revisiting the topic with her right now.

She still quickly changes the subject if posOM comes up.

Why the hell does she do crap like this?

Going to continue with detaching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Why is this detaching thing so hard?
> 
> I confronted her on it. Pointed out this is yet another one way boundary, she of course took offense, and bam we are in our dance again.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi Spun. I'm at work so can't catch up on everything that has been happening with you, but this post caught my eye.

It is indeed a dance. There is a book that might be helpful titled 'The Dance of Anger' by Harriet Lerner. Its available through Amazon, or in most large bookstores. Lerner talks about the dances we do with others and how to change them. Its directed at women, but the strategies may help you effect some changes in your interactions. She may even have a book directed at men. Might be worth a look.

Take care.


----------



## spun

I have been working really hard on detaching and focusing on myself. Really starting to feel happy again and being myself.

And bam. Attracted a nice woman.

Talking and interacting with her as a distraction only.

It's really opening my eyes as to how far a field I got from being myself. 

I am staying at 50,000 ft. But, I'll say it's nice to see that there are caring, emotionally available women out there.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I have been working really hard on detaching and focusing on myself. Really starting to feel happy again and being myself.
> 
> And bam. Attracted a nice woman.
> 
> Talking and interacting with her as a distraction only.
> 
> It's really opening my eyes as to how far a field I got from being myself.
> 
> I am staying at 50,000 ft. But, I'll say it's nice to see that there are caring, emotionally available women out there.


Excellent news.

Good job brother.

Now, ready yourself for the big test.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Now, ready yourself for the big test.


Care to expand?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Care to expand?


You're moving into the territory where she now may notice how strong and independent you are.

Be prepared for what you really want in life.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You're moving into the territory where she now may notice how strong and independent you are.
> 
> Be prepared for what you really want in life.


Not there yet. 

It's interesting. She has not reached out in any definable way, however, lately she has really stepped up the rate at which she is communicating via text, calls, etc.

I'll refrain from trying to read the tea leaves.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Not there yet.
> 
> It's interesting. She has not reached out in any definable way, however, lately she has really stepped up the rate at which she is communicating via text, calls, etc.
> 
> I'll refrain from trying to read the tea leaves.


Just keep working on you.

You've got the momentum now.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Conrad said:


> Excellent news.
> 
> Good job brother.
> 
> Now, ready yourself for *the big test*.


I think I failed mine :rofl:


----------



## spun

UpnOver said:


> I think I failed mine :rofl:



Up, 

Your test was "rigged" to produce the desired outcome from the outset.

Pretty sure I've been in the same boat all along too.


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> Up,
> 
> Your test was "rigged" to produce the desired outcome from the outset.
> 
> Pretty sure I've been in the same boat all along too.


Rigged or not, I didn't have to partake in it.

But I did.

Dropping the love bombs, spewing out hateful rage (although what I said was indeed fact) and so forth.

By no means am I feeling sorry for myself.

What's done cannot be changed.

Then again, I did learn a lot from it.

Lol.


----------



## spun

Well, she has now taken to blowing up my phone with text messages that outline everything from what to feed the kids, to when to put them to sleep, to mandating when and where I will celebrate my daughter's upcoming birthday.

Spoke with her this morning and said that we no longer live together and I am not ok with her talking to me like I am a five year old.

She changed the subject then hung up.

Things are crystal clear from 50,000 ft.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Well, she has now taken to blowing up my phone with text messages that outline everything from what to feed the kids, to when to put them to sleep, to mandating when and where I will celebrate my daughter's upcoming birthday.
> 
> Spoke with her this morning and said that we no longer live together and I am not ok with her talking to me like I am a five year old.
> 
> She changed the subject then hung up.
> 
> Things are crystal clear from 50,000 ft.


Great job spun!

Just think of how many times you sucked that crap up like Kool-Aid.


----------



## Frostflower

Way to go, Spun! Keep up the good work.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Way to go, Spun! Keep up the good work.


Thanks, Frost.

It's been a tough road.

The light at the end of the tunnel is now in plain view.

I'm going to be better than ever, with or without her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

She has take the girls on a trip.

Keeps emailing pictures of my littles ones having fun.

I feel so conflicted about it.

Part of me feels like it is a sweet gesture.

Part of me also feels like it's rubbing it in my face.

Ugh.


----------



## Justadude

spun said:


> She has take the girls on a trip.
> 
> Keeps emailing pictures of my littles ones having fun.
> 
> I feel so conflicted about it.
> 
> Part of me feels like it is a sweet gesture.
> 
> Part of me also feels like it's rubbing it in my face.
> 
> Ugh.


Keep it going, you are doing great! Build the new man out the ashes of this nightmare, and then you will have options, and you will have strenght. I do think there is something happening behind the scenes, but really it doesn't matter right now. You keep your focus just like it is, and take it day by day. This is a marathon not a sprint.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> She has take the girls on a trip.
> 
> Keeps emailing pictures of my littles ones having fun.
> 
> I feel so conflicted about it.
> 
> Part of me feels like it is a sweet gesture.
> 
> Part of me also feels like it's rubbing it in my face.
> 
> Ugh.


Isn't this the same woman that basically forgot she was a mother a short time ago?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Isn't this the same woman that basically forgot she was a mother a short time ago?


She's the one that splits town for five days at a time when I get the kids without even a text to see how the kids are doing.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> She's the one that splits town for five days at a time when I get the kids without even a text to see how the kids are doing.


So, this clearly represents some sort of movement.

She's either trying to prove to you or to herself (more likely) what a great mom she is.

Don't kiss ass on this.

This is being done as much out of guilt as out of anything.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> So, this clearly represents some sort of movement.
> 
> She's either trying to prove to you or to herself (more likely) what a great mom she is.
> 
> Don't kiss ass on this.
> 
> This is being done as much out of guilt as out of anything.


Thing is if she wanted to reel me back, she would never straight up do it.

She can't stand making herself vulnerable.

Always takes the round about.

And, I end having to piece the puzzle together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Thing is if she wanted to reel me back, she would never straight up do it.
> 
> She can't stand making herself vulnerable.
> 
> Always takes the round about.
> 
> And, I end having to piece the puzzle together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just stay detached - and firm.

When she asks, you simply state, "Nothing happens between us - except divorce - as long as posOM is still in the picture"


----------



## spun

More photos.

Messing with my head.

That and the fact that I have met someone interesting.

It's like the stbxw has a sense for keeping me connected.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> More photos.
> 
> Messing with my head.
> 
> That and the fact that I have met someone interesting.
> 
> It's like the stbxw has a sense for keeping me connected.


Of course.

I've mentioned the big test is coming.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Of course.
> 
> I've mentioned the big test is coming.


It is a little scary.

Soon as I start to get my footing.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> It is a little scary.
> 
> Soon as I start to get my footing.


That's why I wanted to warn you.

You need to go deep within and think about what you really want.

About 6 weeks ago, you were unwilling to tell her "posOM has got to go" when she suggested counseling.

How would you respond on that issue now?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> That's why I wanted to warn you.
> 
> You need to go deep within and think about what you really want.
> 
> About 6 weeks ago, you were unwilling to tell her "posOM has got to go" when she suggested counseling.
> 
> How would you respond on that issue now?


I'd be shocked if she follows thru that far any time soon.

But, if that is where it goes she will need to cave on posOM this time.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I'd be shocked if she follows thru that far any time soon.
> 
> But, if that is where it goes she will need to cave on posOM this time.


Good man.

Stay the course.


----------



## spun

Today is my daughters birthday.

Since the stbxw and girls are out of town, I called to wish her happy birthday.

Had a nice talk with the birthday girl.

Stbxw had absolutely no reason to get on th phone afterward but did.

She was super cheery, talking about the weather and such.

Don't get her at all. Why bother talking to me at all?

This stuff is not good for my head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Today is my daughters birthday.
> 
> Since the stbxw and girls are out of town, I called to wish her happy birthday.
> 
> Had a nice talk with the birthday girl.
> 
> Stbxw had absolutely no reason to get on th phone afterward but did.
> 
> She was super cheery, talking about the weather and such.
> 
> Don't get her at all. Why bother talking to me at all?
> 
> This stuff is not good for my head.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't let her do it.

Tell her you have to go.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Don't let her do it.
> 
> Tell her you have to go.


I was cordial. Then I told her I need to go.

Not sure how anything could ever materialize if we don't begin connecting on even the most basic level though.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I was cordial. Then I told her I need to go.
> 
> Not sure how anything could ever materialize if we don't begin connecting on even the most basic level though.


Mysterious is attractive.

Telling her what you're doing and thinking lets her reassure herself that you're still waiting as her Plan B.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Mysterious is attractive.
> 
> Telling her what you're doing and thinking lets her reassure herself that you're still waiting as her Plan B.


I get it. Thanks.

So easy to slip back into old patterns, patterns that got me where I am today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mark72

spun said:


> I get it. Thanks.
> 
> So easy to slip back into old patterns, patterns that got me where I am today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it appears that she is trying to keep you on the hook to control you or keep you as a plan B, I would guess that's what she will do...
Conrad hasn't been wrong on anything he has advised you, has he?


----------



## Frostflower

Conrad is right. A strong, mysterious you will drive her crazy. You are nobody's plan B and its time she knew that.


----------



## our vision shattered

stay the course brother, stay the course !!!! you got this


----------



## 06Daddio08

Attempting to be 'mysterious' is no different than trying to use the 180 to 'win them back'.


----------



## Conrad

UpnOver said:


> Attempting to be 'mysterious' is no different than trying to use the 180 to 'win them back'.


I thought it was not explaining your way to continued doormat status.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Conrad said:


> I thought it was not explaining your way to continued doormat status.


Yes.

Shouldn't that come natural though?

Without having to 'label' it as something such as mysterious.

Then again, if it helps him to pretend mentally that he is Batman. Being all mysterious.

He could just simply say every single time in a raspy Christian Bale voice "I AM BATMAN!".


----------



## Conrad

UpnOver said:


> Yes.
> 
> Shouldn't that come natural though?
> 
> Without having to 'label' it as something such as mysterious.
> 
> Then again, if it helps him to pretend mentally that he is Batman. Being all mysterious.
> 
> He could just simply say every single time in a raspy Christian Bale voice "I AM BATMAN!".


For all I know, he is


----------



## 06Daddio08

I want to say that next time I get a text from her.

Her: Be there in 10 minutes.

Me: I AM BATMAN!

Okay, thread jack is over.


----------



## spun

She was sweetening me up for gut punch to come.

Pressing the final mediation meeting, during which we will file the D.

Can't say that I am surprised.

Still sucks though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Finally reached my breaking point.

Been doing my best to interact with stbxw, but now I am done.

Told her I don't want see her in person any longer. No more coming toU the door during kid exchanges.

Hurts that it has come to this. I think it is the only way for me to truly begin to move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

spun said:


> Finally reached my breaking point.
> 
> Been doing my best to interact with stbxw, but now I am done.
> 
> Told her I don't want see her in person any longer. No more coming toU the door during kid exchanges.
> 
> Hurts that it has come to this. I think it is the only way for me to truly begin to move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What happened?


----------



## Hermes

spun said:


> Finally reached my breaking point.
> 
> Been doing my best to interact with stbxw, but now I am done.
> 
> Told her I don't want see her in person any longer. No more coming toU the door during kid exchanges.
> 
> Hurts that it has come to this. I think it is the only way for me to truly begin to move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


care to expand? What happened now?


----------



## spun

The constant blame shifting. Keeps me stuck in a loop. Cant see her without getting sucked into drama.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> The constant blame shifting. Keeps me stuck in a loop. Cant see her without getting sucked into drama.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bickering?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Bickering?


Yes. 

It's a sweet-mean cycle.

I pull away, she sweetens me up with sending of photos, the cheery phone conversations about nothing.

I try to reach out.

Bam.

She begins running through a list of how it was me who ruined our marriage.

I think the only way to keep from being sucked in is to not see her. Period.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Yes.
> 
> It's a sweet-mean cycle.
> 
> I pull away, she sweetens me up with sending of photos, the cheery phone conversations about nothing.
> 
> I try to reach out.
> 
> Bam.
> 
> She begins running through a list of how it was me who ruined our marriage.
> 
> I think the only way to keep from being sucked in is to not see her. Period.


Good


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Good


Feel like my head has been through a blender.


----------



## NoWhere

spun said:


> Feel like my head has been through a blender.


 Add a couple of fruits and you got yourself a smoothie.


----------



## Mark72

NoWhere said:


> Add a couple of fruits and you got yourself a smoothie.


Already a couple of nuts in here.. not mentioning any names... but I'm one of em :scratchhead:


----------



## BookOfJob

spun said:


> Yes.
> 
> It's a sweet-mean cycle.
> 
> I pull away, she sweetens me up with sending of photos, the cheery phone conversations about nothing.
> 
> I try to reach out.
> 
> Bam.
> 
> She begins running through a list of how it was me who ruined our marriage.
> 
> I think the only way to keep from being sucked in is to not see her. Period.


Spun, sorry that you're in this mess. I see that you're probably 4 - 5 months into this mess. Your original question is how long. The 'how long' depends on how shell-shocked you are. It's been said in this forum that the amount of shock depends on if you've been suspicious of the EA (prepared to accept, etc). For me, she being in an affair is the furthest thing in mind. So, I got into a really bad shape after finding out (she confessed and then I found out the 2nd EA). Naive, stupid, yes, that was me.

I am going NC and I think the part that helps is the shield from seeing her emotion, at all. Emotion like smile, curios, angry, blaming, etc. I think this is due to the mental image that she has been manipulating her emotion in front of me for all 4 years she is in EA/PA. I don't have any control over this feeling but I think it is my subconscious that gets triggered. I.e. I will have a bad day if I interact with her and see her emotion.

Sounds to me that she is playing victim to you. That simply reads "I am entitled to pull this sh!t on you because I have suffered beyond belief living with you".


----------



## spun

Sitting here at my old house waiting for stbxw to return from another one of her 4 day escapades with posOM.

She wasn't here, so now I need to wait and get to see her.

Anxiety level is up.

Can't open my mouth...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Sitting here at my old house waiting for stbxw to return from another one of her 4 day escapades with posOM.
> 
> She wasn't here, so now I need to wait and get to see her.
> 
> Anxiety level is up.
> 
> Can't open my mouth...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You don't have a care in the world.


----------



## our vision shattered

BookOfJob said:


> Spun, sorry that you're in this mess. I see that you're probably 4 - 5 months into this mess. Your original question is how long. The 'how long' depends on how shell-shocked you are. It's been said in this forum that the amount of shock depends on if you've been suspicious of the EA (prepared to accept, etc). For me, she being in an affair is the furthest thing in mind. So, I got into a really bad shape after finding out (she confessed and then I found out the 2nd EA). Naive, stupid, yes, that was me.
> 
> I am going NC and I think the part that helps is the shield from seeing her emotion, at all. Emotion like smile, curios, angry, blaming, etc. I think this is due to the mental image that she has been manipulating her emotion in front of me for all 4 years she is in EA/PA. I don't have any control over this feeling but I think it is my subconscious that gets triggered. I.e. I will have a bad day if I interact with her and see her emotion.
> 
> Sounds to me that she is playing victim to you. That simply reads "I am entitled to pull this sh!t on you because I have suffered beyond belief living with you".


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## spun

She wants no part of the marriage, but yet won't move the D forward.

Second thoughts? My rational brain knows better, but my emotions cling to the fantasy of her coming back.

I miss her. I feel guilty for not being a better husband.

I have so much work to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

You're a good man spun.

But, nothing is possible as long as posOM is in the picture.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> You're a good man spun.
> 
> But, nothing is possible as long as posOM is in the picture.


Good to everyone else but myself.

I am willing to "own" way too much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Good to everyone else but myself.
> 
> I am willing to "own" way too much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have I asked you about a loan recently?


----------



## spun

Texted a massively long list of instructions on how get the kids ready for hockey practice.

I have been taking them almost exclusively by myself for 4 years now.

It's her controlling insanity at its finest.

She knows I hate this kind of crap.

She can text instructions away at her hearts content. 

The delete button is just a touch away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

spun said:


> Texted a massively long list of instructions on how get the kids ready for hockey practice.
> 
> I have been taking them almost exclusively by myself for 4 years now.
> 
> It's her controlling insanity at its finest.
> 
> She knows I hate this kind of crap.
> 
> She can text instructions away at her hearts content.
> 
> The delete button is just a touch away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey spun..do you have CODA meetings in your area. I have been going at the suggestion of my IC and it has really opened my eyes to some things about myself. Mostly about giving someone the keys to your self esteem. Not sure how it is for you but I have had way too much of my self worth tied up in this woman..thinking that I am worthless without her. Fact is our stbxws do not have the capacity to give us what we need, maybe never did, maybe never will. truth be told..unless they are willing to face there own demons (mine won't) they will never have what they need to have a healthy relationship much less one with you. I had to stop romanticizing the dream of what could be and look at the cold hard reality of what is. if you look at what is the picture is pretty ugly. how do we recover from that image, and is it possible that they are really capable of painting a new one that you will think is beautiful again? think about that reality for a min.


----------



## spun

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Hey spun..do you have CODA meetings in your area. I have been going at the suggestion of my IC and it has really opened my eyes to some things about myself. Mostly about giving someone the keys to your self esteem. Not sure how it is for you but I have had way too much of my self worth tied up in this woman..thinking that I am worthless without her. Fact is our stbxws do not have the capacity to give us what we need, maybe never did, maybe never will. truth be told..unless they are willing to face there own demons (mine won't) they will never have what they need to have a healthy relationship much less one with you. I had to stop romanticizing the dream of what could be and look at the cold hard reality of what is. if you look at what is the picture is pretty ugly. how do we recover from that image, and is it possible that they are really capable of painting a new one that you will think is beautiful again? think about that reality for a min.


No I don't think she is capable of being in a true partnership.

I think I have known this at a subconscious level for quite some time now.

As I hung on to the illusion of her that I created, I become angry and bitter.

Its only now that I am out at 50,000 ft, that I can see clearly for the first time in years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

Hang in there, Spun. I know it may sound crazy, but this will pass. Don't allow anger to overtake you. Your wife is not your wife right now, but one day she will be. It will be your decision whether you want her back or not. Focus on your the most important thing(s) in your life right now.

We are here for you if you need us.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> texted a massively long list of instructions on how get the kids ready for hockey practice.
> 
> I have been taking them almost exclusively by myself for 4 years now.
> 
> It's her controlling insanity at its finest.
> 
> She knows i hate this kind of crap.
> 
> She can text instructions away at her hearts content.
> 
> The delete button is just a touch away.
> _posted via mobile device_


*use it*


----------



## spun

Stbxw just indignantly told me via text that our youngest is 6 and a half.

This is in response to me saying I think the sports schedule is a little demanding for a 5 year old.

Shows how insane and in the fog the stbxw really is. Our youngest is indeed 5.

Crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Stbxw just indignantly told me via text that our youngest is 6 and a half.
> 
> This is in response to me saying I think the sports schedule is a little demanding for a 5 year old.
> 
> Shows how insane and in the fog the stbxw really is. Our youngest is indeed 5.
> 
> Crazy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow, Spun, that speaks volumes. 

Don't get into it. Stay above. Delete.


----------



## spun

After insisting that our daughter is 6 and a half when she is actually five, she proceeded to blow up my phone with text messages telling me how to parent and what a pathetic dad I am, and if don't follow her suggestions then the kids aren't going to turn out right down the road.

I told her I am not ok with her using this issue I raised as an opportunity to berate me.

The demanding texts continued, along with repeated phone calls that I did not answer.

I have really been limiting my interaction and contact with her. 

I think she is really starting to come unglued.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> After insisting that our daughter is 6 and a half when she is actually five, she proceeded to blow up my phone with text messages telling me how to parent and what a pathetic dad I am, and if don't follow her suggestions then the kids aren't going to turn out right down the road.
> 
> I told her I am not ok with her using this issue I raised as an opportunity to berate me.
> 
> The demanding texts continued, along with repeated phone calls that I did not answer.
> 
> I have really been limiting my interaction and contact with her.
> 
> I think she is really starting to come unglued.


Smiling

And you thought she didn't care.

Now, you know what happens next.

She starts showing her true colors to posOM.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Smiling
> 
> And you thought she didn't care.
> 
> Now, you know what happens next.
> 
> She starts showing her true colors to posOM.


She just informed me that she will not be here for Christmas--is leaving the girls behind with me.

I caved a little more than I should have.

Told her she is acting like a teenager and the girls deserve better than this.

All in a calm, firm manner.

She said I can't call her "names" like that and that she can't take anymore of my drama.

Really? 

Leaving your kids behind for Christmas so that you can spend it with posOM is not drama (did not say this to her of course).

Insanity.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Do not fall for her projections.


----------



## spun

UpnOver said:


> Do not fall for her projections.


Where is the projection here?


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> Where is the projection here?


Anything and everything she 'spews' at you has nothing to do with you.

Everything to do with whatever is going on in your head.

Example .. the whole age argument, a testament to how messed up she is.

Remember, you cannot control what she says or does.

You can only control yourself.

Which also translates into you cannot control what kind of parent she is.

At least your children have 1 parent that is looking out for them.

They are better off with you anyways.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> She just informed me that she will not be here for Christmas--is leaving the girls behind with me.


GREAT! I was looking for the opportunity to take them on a trip!


----------



## Ostera

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Hey spun..do you have CODA meetings in your area. I have been going at the suggestion of my IC and it has really opened my eyes to some things about myself. Mostly about giving someone the keys to your self esteem. Not sure how it is for you but I have had way too much of my self worth tied up in this woman..thinking that I am worthless without her. Fact is our stbxws do not have the capacity to give us what we need, maybe never did, maybe never will. truth be told..unless they are willing to face there own demons (mine won't) they will never have what they need to have a healthy relationship much less one with you. I had to stop romanticizing the dream of what could be and look at the cold hard reality of what is. if you look at what is the picture is pretty ugly. how do we recover from that image, and is it possible that they are really capable of painting a new one that you will think is beautiful again? think about that reality for a min.



Good advise there...This is what I am doing now mentally. Realizing that it is a fantasy. The reality is that you can't be married to a mirage.


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

spun said:


> She just informed me that she will not be here for Christmas--is leaving the girls behind with me.
> 
> I caved a little more than I should have.
> 
> Told her she is acting like a teenager and the girls deserve better than this.
> 
> All in a calm, firm manner.
> 
> She said I can't call her "names" like that and that she can't take anymore of my drama.
> 
> Really?
> 
> Leaving your kids behind for Christmas so that you can spend it with posOM is not drama (did not say this to her of course).
> 
> Insanity.


A real piece of work that one..leaving the girls for Christmas to be with posOM?? Nice priorities..


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

spun said:


> No I don't think she is capable of being in a true partnership.
> 
> I think I have known this at a subconscious level for quite some time now.
> 
> As I hung on to the illusion of her that I created, I become angry and bitter.
> 
> Its only now that I am out at 50,000 ft, that I can see clearly for the first time in years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I speak from a place of principal not necessarily practice. I know it to be true...trying to get my brain to assimilate. But it is true isn't it? the delusion of how it might be as opposed to what is. What have they done in recent history..maybe ever to show us that there is even a chance of having that delusion? That would take admitting wrong doing..which would be a character assassination that they could never allow. You saw the letter my stbxw just sent m.. thanks for the memories but you waited too long, now Im in love with someone else and its all your fault. Up always says " she has shown you who she really is...best to believe her" they have been showing us all along and we have turned a blind eye to it all in hopes of filling a hole in our souls that we think only they can fill. Truth is the only ones who can fill the hole is us..we are all here to learn that all we really need is ourselves..then and only then have true and meaningful relationships. this from a place of wholeness, not needing anyone or anything to complete us..only to compliment us. they did us a favor.


----------



## spun

She's called 3 times today. No voicemails.

Feels good to not answer any more.

That, and chatting it up and buying a drink for any woman I please.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hermes

spun said:


> She's called 3 times today. No voicemails.
> 
> Feels good to not answer any more.
> 
> That, and chatting it up and buying a drink for any woman I please.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good job spun. That is awesome.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> She's called 3 times today. No voicemails.
> 
> Feels good to not answer any more.
> 
> That, and chatting it up and buying a drink for any woman I please.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell me when they start buying for you


----------



## Frostflower

You sound good, Spun. One day she will wake up and realize what she has lost, but you will be too busy being happy to care.


----------



## lostinspaces

Sounds like you are doing well spun! They definitely project their own insecurities and blame shift ... Although it sounds to me like you have an especially masterful one for that.


----------



## Conrad

lostinspaces said:


> Sounds like you are doing well spun! They definitely project their own insecurities and blame shift ... Although it sounds to me like you have an especially masterful one for that.


She's no better at it than yours.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> You sound good, Spun. One day she will wake up and realize what she has lost, but you will be too busy being happy to care.


I guess I'll have achieved her level of "awareness" when I do .

In her own words...

"Had she known how good it is on the other side, she would have cheated on me years ago."

Enlightenment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> I guess I'll have achieved her level of "awareness" when I do .
> 
> In her own words...
> 
> "Had she known how good it is on the other side, she would have cheated on me years ago."
> 
> Enlightenment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just imagined myself sipping on a nice cup of coffee, reading this for the first time.

Then spitting it out with laughter.

Not even caring that I just burned myself with the coffee.

:rofl:


----------



## NoWhere

spun said:


> In her own words...
> "Had she known how good it is on the other side, she would have cheated on me years ago."
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 wow that's harsh. I guess I should be thankful me stbx won't even text me let alone talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> I guess I'll have achieved her level of "awareness" when I do .
> 
> In her own words...
> 
> "Had she known how good it is on the other side, she would have cheated on me years ago."
> 
> Enlightenment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And did you come back with, "Had I know how good it was with you on the other side, I'd have kicked you out years ago"?

That wasn't nice. Sorry Spun. Couldn't resist. I know you would never say anything like that.


----------



## lostinspaces

Some people are just horrible. Seriously who says that and lives with themselves afterwards?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I guess I'll have achieved her level of "awareness" when I do .
> 
> In her own words...
> 
> "Had she known how good it is on the other side, she would have cheated on me years ago."
> 
> Enlightenment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


spun,

Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.

They're doomed.

And, you know it.


----------



## spun

lostinspaces said:


> Some people are just horrible. Seriously who says that and lives with themselves afterwards?


The very next day, in her cheeriest voice, she wished me a happy thanksgiving when I dropped off the kids.

The stuff is gold, I tell ya.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> The very next day, in her cheeriest voice, she wished me a happy thanksgiving when I dropped off the kids.
> 
> The stuff is gold, I tell ya.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And it still 'gets' to you.


----------



## spun

UpnOver said:


> And it still 'gets' to you.


Simply my dry wit coming through.

I see it for what it is, now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> Simply my dry wit coming through.
> 
> I see it for what it is, now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Soon you won't find the need to even mention it.


----------



## spun

UpnOver said:


> Soon you won't find the need to even mention it.


You speak as if you been through all this before ;-).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

spun said:


> You speak as if you been through all this before ;-).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've dabbled in it from time to time


----------



## soca70

Originally Posted by spun 
I guess I'll have achieved her level of "awareness" when I do .

<<In her own words...

"Had she known how good it is on the other side, she would have cheated on me years ago.">>

Yeah I got "I believe you thought you and the kids were a package deal."

Where do they come up with this stuff?


----------



## Hermes

How you doing Spun?


----------



## Solon

Yeah, how is it going? Been awhile since I have been on here.


----------



## spun

Nothing much new to say.

I'm not over the loss.

But, I know that I no longer want her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

spun said:


> Nothing much new to say.
> 
> I'm not over the loss.
> 
> But, I know that I no longer want her back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? How long has it been? That sucks! Don't you wish you could just wave a magic wand and make things better?


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

spun said:


> Nothing much new to say.
> 
> I'm not over the loss.
> 
> But, I know that I no longer want her back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


right there with you buddy..it will get better.


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

How you doin Spun?


----------



## spun

Too Little Too Late? said:


> How you doin Spun?


Trying to embrace the process.

Doing my best to stay at 50,000 ft.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> Trying to embrace the process.
> 
> Doing my best to stay at 50,000 ft.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay with it, Spun. It can only get better.


----------



## Mark72

How are you gettin along?


----------



## Freak On a Leash

50 page thread. Impressive. Your wife sounds like a real piece of work. I could insert another word in for "work". 

You sound like a decent guy. Believe it or not, it WILL get better. 2 years ago my husband and I separated. When did it get better? Some time this year..but it took years, not days, not months. 

Here's what I wrote in another thread and I think it applies here:

But one day you will find yourself not thinking about her every day. You will go days without seeing her and not really care. You'll have better things to do with your time. She will say or do something and it won't make you angry. You'll just shrug it off. You'll think about the past and it will be as if you are looking it as a spectator, not as a participant. 

And you won't be angry or upset or resentful. You'll just be....you and you'll feel fine. You might even thank her for getting to where you are because your life will be better than it was than before. 

After 2 years I think I'm at this point but it wasn't easy getting here but I'm glad I've arrived. 

Good luck and be patient Enjoy your kids and your life. You've still got a lot of living to do.


----------



## spun

Well, with the holidays coming up and discussing how to haLndle the kids gifts for Christmas, I caved one last time.

Dropped a comment saying "Is it really worth putting our family through this? I think we all deserve better."

She responded "there is absolutely no reason you should be trying to repair our marriage--it's wasted effort on your part".

Why do I even bother? I know where things are headed for months now.

Time to get back up again...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Well, with the holidays coming up and discussing how to haLndle the kids gifts for Christmas, I caved one last time.
> 
> Dropped a comment saying "Is it really worth putting our family through this? I think we all deserve better."
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good to see you spun


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Good to see you spun


I needed that.

Holidays are triggering me.

The woman that I think I am missing has long since left the building.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Orpheus

The woman that you're missing is the one that lived in your head; not in your house.

but hey... you've got all that lumber to build a house for the woman in your head now. 

happy horrordays.


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I needed that.
> 
> Holidays are triggering me.
> 
> The woman that I think I am missing has long since left the building.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad to help.

I'm a bit rusty. Took me a few minutes to find the lumberyard.

But, I left so much in Synthetic's thread, I can track it down.


----------



## Solon

spun said:


> Well, with the holidays coming up and discussing how to haLndle the kids gifts for Christmas, I caved one last time.
> 
> Dropped a comment saying "Is it really worth putting our family through this? I think we all deserve better."
> 
> She responded "there is absolutely no reason you should be trying to repair our marriage--it's wasted effort on your part".
> 
> Why do I even bother? I know where things are headed for months now.
> 
> Time to get back up again...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ouch! That cut me just reading it. I am really sorry you are having to go through this. No one deserves this. But you will be such a strong individual once it passes and she will be a wreck.


----------



## soca70

Orpheus said:


> happy horrordays.


:lol:

Spun - what you did and the result I'm taking as a warning of what not to do as I could easily see myself doing the same thing


----------



## Frostflower

hang in there, Spun. I agree with Solon, you will come out of this a much stronger person.

Hug.


----------



## our vision shattered

Hey spun, thinking of you brother, im right there with you, luv ya brother, hang in there & be strong.


----------



## Mark72

I know this isn't my thread, but I am wondering what the "lumber" meaning is...?


----------



## Hermes

Mark72 said:


> I know this isn't my thread, but I am wondering what the "lumber" meaning is...?


he got hit with a 2x4.......

it is Conrads sense of humor. 

It works.


----------



## Mark72

Hermes said:


> he got hit with a 2x4.......
> 
> it is Conrads sense of humor.
> 
> It works.


I get it...
So when we acquire lumber, we are just going back for more and stocking up...

:scratchhead:


----------



## Frostflower

Hermes said:


> he got hit with a 2x4.......
> 
> it is Conrads sense of humor.
> 
> It works.


I got hot once. I never did it again!


----------



## left behind

Spun - I know exactly what you're going through. Feel like I just read a thread about my own life. My STBXW left for another man after a four month affair. After I found about the affair I gave her a choice; either end the affair or end the marriage. She chose to end the marriage and hasn't looked back. I did the 180 and everything you did including the sincere one liners about this not making any sense and is the biggest mistake we'll make. She didn't bite either and the OM is divorcing his wife and they are planning a new life together. To think 9 months ago I was planning a secret ceremony to renew our vows on our anniversary and now I wait to sign the final papers and end a marriage that meant the world to me. 

These aren't the women that we loved any more. As hard as it to accept we are in love with who they were and what we had. When I get caught in the emotions I take a step back and remember that we had is over. I'm not sure either how long it will take to get over this. So far we have been separated for three months and the kids are still sdtruggling with it but getting better. The OM has her convinced that in 6 months the kids will be fine and I'll be happier that it's over. They are doing everything they can to justify their actions and make what they know to wrong and hurtful right in their eyes. She's already planting the seeds to introduce him to the kids. What a piece of work.

It's hard to focus on yourself and but the kids see your feelings and emotions and but I think once we start believing the happiness we to show our children we will start to feel better. One to two years of this sounds horrible . . . but the happiness on the other end may be worth the travel


----------



## ngonza

It seems like 3.5 months would be the likely time frame for anyone wanting a better life or freedom to get over at least a little bit of the one you married. During our separtion at this moment we still see each other ..but the fight its like this...
"I think you need to go your way and I will go mine". For some reason we are back into each others arms the same day! I hope when it's finally over BECAUSE WE DONT LIVE TOGETHER! He and I will not bother each other for 3.5 months. Sorry for anyone feeling heartaches. They say it will get better and better and better. :iagree:


----------



## Frostflower

Merry Christmas, Spun. I hope you have a good day. Take care of yourself.

Hug.


----------



## HappyKaty

Merry Christmas, Spun!


----------



## Justadude

Spun, I hope you are doing well this holiday season. I hope you enjoyed the blessing of your kids, and looked at the good in your life rather than being dragged down. We are all behind you!


----------



## Frostflower

How are you doing, Spun?


----------



## Solon

So what has been going on?? How is everyone? Any updates on the marriages?


----------



## Frostflower

Spun?


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Spun?


Thanks for checking in, Frost.

Been laying low as I am still struggling on and off with moving on with my life.

I have fallen down literally dozens of times. Mainly because it is so difficult to let go of the dream that my girls will come from an intact family.

My girls do seem to be adjusting well to the massive changes that are going on in their lives.

The best thing that has come out of my failed marriage is that I now have a relationship with my girls that is on my terms.

It is a relief to be off of the stbxw's puppet string. She still tries to control remotely, but text that is not an emergency, or about a pickup or drop off time can simply be ignored 

Been feeling more and more like finding some female companionship these days. She is not the only woman out there after all.

I'm going to wait for the D to go throuh first though. That should happen next month.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

Hey Spun, 

I have been following your story from start to finish - it felt very similar to mine.

"The best thing that has come out of my failed marriage is that I now have a relationship with my girls that is on my terms."

I absolutely agree with what you stated. I am also glad you have stuck with your principles. It'll most definitely pay off in the long run.

Good Job Spun!


----------



## Solon

Sorry to hear that things never came around for you, Spun. Hang in there. I can only imagine how much pain this has caused you. But you sound as though you are doing a better job than most would under the circumstances.



spun said:


> Thanks for checking in, Frost.
> 
> Been laying low as I am still struggling on and off with moving on with my life.
> 
> I have fallen down literally dozens of times. Mainly because it is so difficult to let go of the dream that my girls will come from an intact family.
> 
> My girls do seem to be adjusting well to the massive changes that are going on in their lives.
> 
> The best thing that has come out of my failed marriage is that I now have a relationship with my girls that is on my terms.
> 
> It is a relief to be off of the stbxw's puppet string. She still tries to control remotely, but text that is not an emergency, or about a pickup or drop off time can simply be ignored
> 
> Been feeling more and more like finding some female companionship these days. She is not the only woman out there after all.
> 
> I'm going to wait for the D to go throuh first though. That should happen next month.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Thanks for checking in, Frost.
> 
> Been laying low as I am still struggling on and off with moving on with my life.
> 
> I have fallen down literally dozens of times. Mainly because it is so difficult to let go of the dream that my girls will come from an intact family.
> 
> My girls do seem to be adjusting well to the massive changes that are going on in their lives.
> 
> The best thing that has come out of my failed marriage is that I now have a relationship with my girls that is on my terms.
> 
> It is a relief to be off of the stbxw's puppet string. She still tries to control remotely, but text that is not an emergency, or about a pickup or drop off time can simply be ignored
> 
> Been feeling more and more like finding some female companionship these days. She is not the only woman out there after all.
> 
> I'm going to wait for the D to go throuh first though. That should happen next month.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Describe "fallen down".

Doesn't sound like you've been contacting her.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Describe "fallen down".
> 
> Doesn't sound like you've been contacting her.


Conrad,

Mostly falling down in my mind.

But, I would be lying to say that I did not try to reach her in subtle ways while I was away from here.

I am truly over trying to make things "right".

Hope things are going better for you and Janie.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Mostly falling down in my mind.
> 
> But, I would be lying to say that I did not try to reach her in subtle ways while I was away from here.
> 
> I am truly over trying to make things "right".
> 
> Hope things are going better for you and Janie.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are much much better.

She's also concluded that this place isn't a negative influence on us.

If you take the long view and see where we've been and where we are, there's no question about that.

The stuff we bat around here WORKS.

Of course, it only works if posOM is out of the picture.

I'm bummed we were never able to excise that SOB from your life.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> They are much much better.
> 
> She's also concluded that this place isn't a negative influence on us.
> 
> If you take the long view and see where we've been and where we are, there's no question about that.
> 
> The stuff we bat around here WORKS.
> 
> Of course, it only works if posOM is out of the picture.
> 
> I'm bummed we were never able to excise that SOB from your life.


Glad to hear about you, Conrad.

Unfortunately, the posOM has never left the picture.

It's difficult for anyone's true colors to shine in a world lacking children and visits within the confines of luxury hotels.

Fantasy is impossible to compete with.


----------



## Solon

Conrad, what is your update? I've been out of the loop.



spun said:


> Glad to hear about you, Conrad.
> 
> Unfortunately, the posOM has never left the picture.
> 
> It's difficult for anyone's true colors to shine in a world lacking children and visits within the confines of luxury hotels.
> 
> Fantasy is impossible to compete with.


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> Sorry to hear that things never came around for you, Spun. Hang in there. I can only imagine how much pain this has caused you. But you sound as though you are doing a better job than most would under the circumstances.


How has it turned out for you? Did you wayward ever break her silence?


----------



## Solon

Nope. She is still remaining silent. I have not tried to reach her at all. I went to a support group a few weeks ago called Rebuilding. It is a support group for those having a hard time getting over a relationship. The first day of class I walk in and she was there. She grabbed her purse and walked out when I sat down and our eyes met. So...go figure. It is the weirdest situation ever. I continue to go to the class but she does not. Other than that, I have not seen her or spoken to her since September.



spun said:


> How has it turned out for you? Did you wayward ever break her silence?


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> Nope. She is still remaining silent. I have not tried to reach her at all. I went to a support group a few weeks ago called Rebuilding. It is a support group for those having a hard time getting over a relationship. The first day of class I walk in and she was there. She grabbed her purse and walked out when I sat down and our eyes met. So...go figure. It is the weirdest situation ever. I continue to go to the class but she does not. Other than that, I have not seen her or spoken to her since September.


And, what part of this are you OK with?


----------



## Solon

Hmmmm...I am okay with with all of it. I cannot change the situation. I am focusing on my work, my kids, and learning life lesson. I know I would not have learned what I have learned if she were home. So I am okay with the way things are. My future is bright, with or without her.:smthumbup:



spun said:


> And, what part of this are you OK with?


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> Hmmmm...I am okay with with all of it. I cannot change the situation. I am focusing on my work, my kids, and learning life lesson. I know I would not have learned what I have learned if she were home. So I am okay with the way things are. My future is bright, with or without her.:smthumbup:


Then why not file for D?


----------



## Solon

I'm not ready to do that right now.



spun said:


> Then why not file for D?


----------



## Frostflower

Hey, Spun! You may have fallen down a few times and you still may, but it sounds like overall you are doing well. I agree though that you should wait a while on the female companionship. Take time for yourself and don’t jump into anything. 

You’re doing well. Conrad is back. All is good with the world!


----------



## spun

Since some have been asking about me, I guess it is time for an update.

My situation has become much more difficult recently, though I am happy to report I am handling it well. My stbxw's anger has become very intensified. The divorce negotiations have not been goin her way as I have been holding firm on what I am not OK with. Based on my attorney's advice, I continued to access my home when she was away with posOM. She retaliated with filing for a emergency restraining order saying she fears for her safety. She of course was granted it and I am in the process of trying to have it over turned. In the meantime, she has done her best to goad me into making a violation by making underhanded remarks about my parenting. She immediately made claims to the police that I violated the order. The allegations were dismissed. It's stressful nonetheless in that if it is awarded, she can continue to play these games for the next two years. My attorney thinks she does not have a leg to stand on. But my do those crocodile tears she can produce on a dime make me uneasy about the final outcome.

What a convenient mechanism to shack up with posOM and come out smelling like a rose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

You sound strong spun - and I can tell you're feeling good.

Of course she has no conscience.

We already knew that.

Keep standing tall.


----------



## Frostflower

Sorry she has made things more difficult for you, Spun. Conrad is right though. You sound strong. 

Crocodile tears only work for so long. Eventually anyone with any brains can see the reptile behind them.

Hang in there.


----------



## ReGroup

Typical, going out of her way to make everything difficult for you.

This thread was one of the first I read. I'm really happy how far you've gotten. 

Great example for us lagging behind in the process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

ReGroup said:


> Typical, going out of her way to make everything difficult for you.
> 
> This thread was one of the first I read. I'm really happy how far you've gotten.
> 
> Great example for us lagging behind in the process.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You mean how far into the hole I've gotten?

At the very least, she has erased my delusion of who she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> You mean how far into the hole I've gotten?
> 
> At the very least, she has erased my delusion of who she is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Makes it easier to move forward without additional regret.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Makes it easier to move forward without additional regret.


I suppose.

Yet, she does seem to find a way to "win" at all costs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I suppose.
> 
> Yet, she does seem to find a way to "win" at all costs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


People who can't see past their own nose tend to be that way.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> People who can't see past their own nose tend to be that way.


And, I made the cardinal mistake of thinking I could get her to do so.

Nobody to blame but myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> And, I made the cardinal mistake of thinking I could get her to do so.
> 
> Nobody to blame but myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most of us have been there. Truly.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Most of us have been there. Truly.


I played it all wrong.

Should have never left the house.

Now I am battling for myfreedom, my home, and my kids.

She may not be hitting me or shouting obscenities at me, but it's abusive for sure.

The bonus: I'm up against a lying cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I played it all wrong.
> 
> Should have never left the house.
> 
> Now I am battling for myfreedom, my home, and my kids.
> 
> The bonus: I'm up against a lying cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Time to get a few VARs

Have them on you every single time you interact with her.

She'll push it too far, and you'll nail her to the wall.


----------



## Solon

Be sure and focus on the kids. Do all you can to bolster your image as an ideal parent. Your attorney probably has already shared this with you, but do things like enroll your kid(s) in some sort of extracurricular activity, be a coach, order Parenting magazines, have you and your children go to therapy together because of your concern of the effects of divorce, make your kids your life.



spun said:


> And, I made the cardinal mistake of thinking I could get her to do so.
> 
> Nobody to blame but myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

Yeah, leaving the house was a huge mistake, but not one that can be overcome. What state do you live in?



spun said:


> I played it all wrong.
> 
> Should have never left the house.
> 
> Now I am battling for myfreedom, my home, and my kids.
> 
> She may not be hitting me or shouting obscenities at me, but it's abusive for sure.
> 
> The bonus: I'm up against a lying cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

There is no way she should be winning at anything. I am not sure where you are in your legal battle, but your attorney should know the factors considered in the best interest of the child standard. Make these factors favor you. I don't know how she was able to get a protective order against you from coming to your home. When it expires, move back in or ask the court to order the sale of the home. I am sure you are already seeking sole legal and primary residential custody of the kids. Roll up your sleeves and get ready to fight for you children. Forget your wife and all that she is doing to you. Focus on raising your children and everything else will fall into place....that is unless you still want your wife to be your wife. If so, focus on her.





spun said:


> I suppose.
> 
> Yet, she does seem to find a way to "win" at all costs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Solon said:


> There is no way she should be winning at anything. I am not sure where you are in your legal battle, but your attorney should know the factors considered in the best interest of the child standard. Make these factors favor you. I don't know how she was able to get a protective order against you from coming to your home.


She lied.


----------



## Solon

Has to be more than a lie. Lies can easily be exposed. The standard is too high for a PO to be awarded based on a lie. If she lied, go after the lie then make her to be a perjurer. Then sue her for malicious prosecution. I shouldn't be typing these things. Go to your wife and love her.



Conrad said:


> She lied.


----------



## Conrad

Solon said:


> Has to be more than a lie. Lies can easily be exposed. The standard is too high for a PO to be awarded based on a lie. If she lied, go after the lie then make her to be a perjurer. Then sue her for malicious prosecution. I shouldn't be typing these things. Go to your wife and love her.


How much experience have you had in family court?

Go to his wife and love her!?

She lies and bars him from his house and he's to "love her"?


----------



## spun

Solon,

Unfortunately it is far from simply exposing a "lie".

Odds are stacked against men in family court, especially when there are allegations of abuse.

A simple "I am afraid for my safety" can be sufficient.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

Far too much. In law school I was on law review and wrote articles on the history of child custody and father's rights. I clerked for a judge for a year and then spent the next five years or so dealing only with family law, namely fighting for the rights of fathers, by any means necessary. Not happy about that. I represented myself in winning custody of my own two children while I was in law school (my wife had one of the best attorneys in town). The judge hated me but could not go against the law. There are ways to win even against a biased judge....and believe me, all judges are biased.

But now, I am a changed man. Peace and love are my motto. I should have grown up in the seventies. "Yeah dude." 



Conrad said:


> How much experience have you had in family court?
> 
> Go to his wife and love her!?
> 
> She lies and bars him from his house and he's to "love her"?


----------



## Conrad

Solon said:


> Far too much. In law school I was on law review and wrote articles on the history of child custody and father's rights. I clerked for a judge for a year and then spent the next five years or so dealing only with family law, namely fighting for the rights of fathers, by any means necessary. Not happy about that. I represented myself in winning custody of my own two children while I was in law school (my wife had one of the best attorneys in town). The judge hated me but could not go against the law. There are ways to win even against a biased judge....and believe me, all judges are biased.
> 
> But now, I am a changed man. Peace and love are my motto. I should have grown up in the seventies. "Yeah dude."


Kind of difficult to "love her" when she's banging posOM.


----------



## Solon

Okay. I will agree with you. I don't attack women in court any more. But I would have loved to ask her, "Why are you afraid for your safety? Has he ever shot at you? Has he ever put you in the hospital? Where are the police reports? Isn't it true that you have a paramour and would say anything to place your husband in a negative light?

I would prove her to be such a liar she would be afraid to open her mouth in court. (sigh) So much fun, but too hurtful to the one being attacked.



spun said:


> Solon,
> 
> Unfortunately it is far from simply exposing a "lie".
> 
> Odds are stacked against men in family court, especially when there are allegations of abuse.
> 
> A simple "I am afraid for my safety" can be sufficient.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Solon said:


> Okay. I will agree with you. I don't attack women in court any more. But I would have loved to ask her, "Why are you afraid for your safety? Has he ever shot at you? Has he ever put you in the hospital? Where are the police reports? Isn't it true that you have a paramour and would say anything to place your husband in a negative light?
> 
> I would prove her to be such a liar she would be afraid to open her mouth in court. (sigh) So much fun, but too hurtful to the one being attacked.


Yeah, who cares about the kids


----------



## Solon

Ouch! Is he sure that she is doing this? Why not expose it in court? Why not depose the guy?



Conrad said:


> Kind of difficult to "love her" when she's banging posOM.


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> Ouch! Is he sure that she is doing this? Why not expose it in court? Why not depose the guy?


Yes. I'm sure.

I have the romantic emails and the eticket records of the airfare she paid for to bring him into town while I was away on business.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

You have his name? Has he been deposed? Has discovery been served on your wife? Meaning, has your attorney asked her if she has received romantic e-mails from a man other than her husband? If she says no, impeach her with your proof. If she says yes, then you have motive as to why she would lie about being afraid of you or "for her safety."

Let's not talk about legal stuff. How are you otherwise?



spun said:


> Yes. I'm sure.
> 
> I have the romantic emails and the eticket records of the airfare she paid for to bring him into town while I was away on business.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> You have his name? Has he been deposed? Has discovery been served on your wife? Meaning, has your attorney asked her if she has received romantic e-mails from a man other than her husband? If she says no, impeach her with your proof. If she says yes, then you have motive as to why she would lie about being afraid of you or "for her safety."
> 
> Let's not talk about legal stuff. How are you otherwise?


To quote one of our brothers here...I'm still a bit UpnDown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

This just in.

Stbxw never attempted to split any of our household items upon me moving out.

I asked her to load up our vaccum (politely) when she drops of the kids.

She replied, buy your own.

I said no problem we can split the cost.

She replied you just violated the OFP with that comment, I am documenting it for court.

She's using this order for her safety.

Right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> This just in.
> 
> Stbxw never attempted to split any of our household items upon me moving out.
> 
> I asked her to load up our vaccum (politely) when she drops of the kids.
> 
> She replied, buy your own.
> 
> I said no problem we can split the cost.
> 
> She replied you just violated the OFP with that comment, I am documenting it for court.
> 
> She's using this order for her safety.
> 
> Right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The force is strong with this one


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> The force is strong with this one


Hopefully the court will see through her and her need to use the OFP as tool to abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Hopefully the court will see through her and her need to use the OFP as tool to abuse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course, what's happening now is the very reason we are advised "not" to leave the family home at the request of a wayward spouse.

Did you ever expose posOM to his workplace?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Of course, what's happening now is the very reason we are advised "not" to leave the family home at the request of a wayward spouse.
> 
> Did you ever expose posOM to his workplace?


No. He's self employed.

Could never get posOMW on the phone, either.

She and posOM are divorced by now, I'm sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> No. He's self employed.
> 
> Could never get posOMW on the phone, either.
> 
> She and posOM are divorced by now, I'm sure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wonder what his clients would think about this?


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> I wonder what his clients would think about this?


Don't know how I would get to them.

As far as I could tell he's a property developer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Don't know how I would get to them.
> 
> As far as I could tell he's a property developer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd do a little digging and see what you can uncover.

She's playing hardball. If you come up with anything, the idea of hurting his business might have her view things differently.


----------



## Frostflower

I’ve never been comfortable when people suggest using VAR’s, but it might be an idea to protect yourself either with those or by having a witness to all exchanges with her. The vacuum incident, for example, could not be played for anything other than what it actually was if you had an electronic or human witness.


----------



## Conrad

Frostflower said:


> I’ve never been comfortable when people suggest using VAR’s, but it might be an idea to protect yourself either with those or by having a witness to all exchanges with her. The vacuum incident, for example, could not be played for anything other than what it actually was if you had an electronic or human witness.


Having a VAR on you at all times you're in her presence is a must.


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> I’ve never been comfortable when people suggest using VAR’s, but it might be an idea to protect yourself either with those or by having a witness to all exchanges with her. The vacuum incident, for example, could not be played for anything other than what it actually was if you had an electronic or human witness.


It all occurred over text, Frost.

So it is documented.

The stickiness arises in that it is technically not related to the children, which is all we are supposed to be communicating about at this point.

She is doing her best to burn me. It's pretty clear she is using it to threaten me at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> It all occurred over text, Frost.
> 
> So it is documented.
> 
> The stickiness arises in that it is technically not related to the children, which is all we are supposed to be communicating about at this point.
> 
> She is doing her best to burn me. It's pretty clear she is using it to threaten me at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

Wow. She’s the one who broke the marriage vows. She is in the house. Yet she is bound and determined to hurt you to the extent of dragging a vacuum cleaner (which would make your place cleaner for her children) into it.

I don’t say nasty things often, but what a witch!


----------



## spun

Frostflower said:


> Wow. She’s the one who broke the marriage vows. She is in the house. Yet she is bound and determined to hurt you to the extent of dragging a vacuum cleaner (which would make your place cleaner for her children) into it.
> 
> I don’t say nasty things often, but what a witch!


As long as she has a court order proving what a monster I am, she had no choice but for posOM to rescue her.

And, if I end up being picked up for violating it, even better yet for her.

She is fighting hard for the victim chair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum - Index page, is your friend.


----------



## Solon

Wow. She is really bitter. Was this a phone conversation or text? If it were a phone conversation obviously it did not happen. Do not converse with here via text or e-mail. 



spun said:


> This just in.
> 
> Stbxw never attempted to split any of our household items upon me moving out.
> 
> I asked her to load up our vaccum (politely) when she drops of the kids.
> 
> She replied, buy your own.
> 
> I said no problem we can split the cost.
> 
> She replied you just violated the OFP with that comment, I am documenting it for court.
> 
> She's using this order for her safety.
> 
> Right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> Wow. She is really bitter. Was this a phone conversation or text? If it were a phone conversation obviously it did not happen. Do not converse with here via text or e-mail.


Text. We have not talked on the phone in months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

Yeah, don't text her any more. As hard as it may be talk to her via phone. If you call, block your number or use someone else's phone. If there is protective order that specifies no contact you do not want her to produce proof that you did contact her. If the order allows minimal contact for the purposes of the kids, then you are okay.



spun said:


> Text. We have not talked on the phone in months.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> Yeah, don't text her any more. As hard as it may be talk to her via phone. If you call, block your number or use someone else's phone. If there is protective order that specifies no contact you do not want her to produce proof that you did contact her. If the order allows minimal contact for the purposes of the kids, then you are okay.


Phone, text, and email contact allowed for kid issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Solon

Well you're good then. The comment was within the parameters of the order. She would show her true colors if she files for contempt. I am sure her attorney will not allow her to do that. She sounds very angry.



spun said:


> Phone, text, and email contact allowed for kid issues.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Solon said:


> Well you're good then. The comment was within the parameters of the order. She would show her true colors if she files for contempt. I am sure her attorney will not allow her to do that. She sounds very angry.


Strictly speaking it was not an issue about the kids, although I made it in the context of our texts about exchanging the kids.

I think she is angry as hell, that I showed up to mediation with an attorney, and I am not bending on revising how I divided our savings back when I first discovered she was sneaking around 10000 miles away with posOM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> Strictly speaking it was not an issue about the kids, although I made it in the context of our texts about exchanging the kids.
> 
> I think she is angry as hell, that I showed up to mediation with an attorney, and I am not bending on revising how I divided our savings back when I first discovered she was sneaking around 10000 miles away with posOM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The SOB is a business owner.

What the hell does she want your money for?


----------



## Solon

You are right, it was in context. It would frustrate the court to argue on that point. She would look bad and her attorney would look even worse to bring that to trial.

She may be angry because she is realizing that she made a big mistake. To be angry that she was caught and is now paying for her actions would be extremely irrational and unreasonable. To be angry because she realizes she made a mistake and seeing her displaced anger towards you makes more sense.



spun said:


> Strictly speaking it was not an issue about the kids, although I made it in the context of our texts about exchanging the kids.
> 
> I think she is angry as hell, that I showed up to mediation with an attorney, and I am not bending on revising how I divided our savings back when I first discovered she was sneaking around 10000 miles away with posOM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> The SOB is a business owner.
> 
> What the hell does she want your money for?


She claims that a large portion of the saving was her commission dollars for the year and that she won't be getting anymore "big" checks this year.

So when I split 50/50 without her knowledge while she was out screwing posOM, I "stole" her salary for the year.

But hey, nothing wrong with her spending my direct deposits to pay th mortgage while I was staying away at her request for "space" to sleep with posOM unimpeaded.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> She claims that a large portion of the saving was her commission dollars for the year and that she won't be getting anymore "big" checks this year.
> 
> So when I split 50/50 without her knowledge while she was out screwing posOM, I "stole" her salary for the year.
> 
> But hey, nothing wrong with her spending my direct deposits to pay th mortgage while I was staying away at her request for "space" to sleep with posOM unimpeaded.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course, that's different.


----------



## Conrad

I would start digging into his background, pronto.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> I would start digging into his background, pronto.


For what purpose?

I'm divorcing this princess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> For what purpose?
> 
> I'm divorcing this princess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Leverage

Because of the OFP, you can't lay a glove on her.

He's a different story.


----------



## spun

He doesnt give a sh!t.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> He doesnt give a sh!t.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He cares about money.

And, he cares about his reputation with his customers.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> He cares about money.
> 
> And, he cares about his reputation with his customers.


So what do I do?

Forward them the pictures he sent of his junk to my wife, pointing out what a man of character he is?

LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> So what do I do?
> 
> Forward them the pictures he sent of his junk to my wife, pointing out what a man of character he is?
> 
> LOL!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's a letter the Count of Monte Cristo received from posOM's attorney. I can imagine you getting something similar - and my smile will be a mile wide:

And - at that time - your wife won't be messing the OFP's.

*************
I got the following letter from the posOM's lawyer after I exposed to his wife, everyone at his office, and the PTA at his daughter's school:

[Names have been omitted to protect my secret identity]

Dear Count of Monte Cristo:

Please allow this letter to inform you of my representation of members of POSOM's family in relation to recent communications from you. As you are aware, you have taken agressive action against POSOM in the following ways:

1. You sent a letter to POSOM's wife with which you included a thumb drive of alleged email correspondence betwen POSOM and your wife.

2. You emailed virtually all of POSOM's co-workers and attached the same alleged email communications; and

3. You emailed the PTA of POSOM's youngest child's elementary school and attached aforementioned emails.

Mr. Count of Monte Cristo, I certainly understand your anger toward POSOM. For that reason, there will be no action taken in response to your violation of several federal and state statutes... Let me assure you that if your intent was to cause POSOM extreme pain emotionally with his family and economically with his career, you have accomplished your mission.


He finishes by saying that if I contacted POSOM or his friends, family and associates then he would be forced to take legal actions against me. However, like he said - I accomplished what I set out to do. That is, expose his lying cheating ass to the world so that they could see him for the scumbag that he really is.

Conrad now:

Spun, you are STILL too damned nice. Take this vermin down. Trust me, you'll feel better for doing so.


----------



## spun

Conrad said:


> Here's a letter the Count of Monte Cristo received from posOM's attorney. I can imagine you getting something similar - and my smile will be a mile wide:
> 
> And - at that time - your wife won't be messing the OFP's.
> 
> *************
> I got the following letter from the posOM's lawyer after I exposed to his wife, everyone at his office, and the PTA at his daughter's school:
> 
> [Names have been omitted to protect my secret identity]
> 
> Dear Count of Monte Cristo:
> 
> Please allow this letter to inform you of my representation of members of POSOM's family in relation to recent communications from you. As you are aware, you have taken agressive action against POSOM in the following ways:
> 
> 1. You sent a letter to POSOM's wife with which you included a thumb drive of alleged email correspondence betwen POSOM and your wife.
> 
> 2. You emailed virtually all of POSOM's co-workers and attached the same alleged email communications; and
> 
> 3. You emailed the PTA of POSOM's youngest child's elementary school and attached aforementioned emails.
> 
> Mr. Count of Monte Cristo, I certainly understand your anger toward POSOM. For that reason, there will be no action taken in response to your violation of several federal and state statutes... Let me assure you that if your intent was to cause POSOM extreme pain emotionally with his family and economically with his career, you have accomplished your mission.
> 
> 
> He finishes by saying that if I contacted POSOM or his friends, family and associates then he would be forced to take legal actions against me. However, like he said - I accomplished what I set out to do. That is, expose his lying cheating ass to the world so that they could see him for the scumbag that he really is.
> 
> Conrad now:
> 
> Spun, you are STILL too damned nice. Take this vermin down. Trust me, you'll feel better for doing so.


That's excellent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> That's excellent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Make it so.

Show her your masculine mettle.


----------



## spun

The court gave her the OFP, with no testimony or evidence of physical abuse.

Apparently, saying your fearful in the context of a divorce is enough.

Just what her ego needs...

More validation and control.


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## HappyKaty

Good God, she IS an entitled princess, huh?

So, what is your plan to counteract her "let's play hardball" tactic?


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## spun

HappyKaty said:


> Good God, she IS an entitled princess, huh?
> 
> So, what is your plan to counteract her "let's play hardball" tactic?


Hard to counteract, when just about any communication or action can be "billed" as harassment and a violation.


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Hard to counteract, when just about any communication or action can be "billed" as harassment and a violation.


Still an option to draw swords with him.

Nothing in the OFP makes any reference to his sleazy cheating buttocks.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> Still an option to draw swords with him.
> 
> Nothing in the OFP makes any reference to his sleazy cheating buttocks.


Having an impossible time finding any of his clients, let alone their contact info.


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## spun

Now she is sending me text photos of the kids sledding.

How kind of her.

Last week she was threatening to report a violation over me asking to borrow our vacuum cleaner.


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## ReGroup

Really, who is this woman?

So, she can contact you and even bait you into something ... and you'll get screwed?


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## spun

ReGroup said:


> So, she can contact you and even bait you into something ... and you'll get screwed?


Yes. That's right.


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## spun

Well, after many months, I received a call from posomW yesterday.

Apparently, she has been mulling over contacting me for a very long time. 

We talked for nearly 3 hours. I can even begin to wrap my head around all that she revealed to me. The salient points: posOM is a repeat cheater, can't hold down a job, and lives off hand outs from his wealthy father. He's a real charmer and has a habit of looking for happiness in the arms of other men's wives. She finally kicked him to the curb after she found out a about him and his affair with my now stbxw. In her own words, she said there is not a chance in hell he will step up for his own family let alone provde go the mile for any other woman and her children...she has been trying to make it work with posOM since they were 18 (they are both now 50).

She even sent my wife a message giving her the names of his previous affair partners and saying that she has been in contact with me and has plenty of information about the escapades that she is prepared to expose to posOMs family, friends, and the court should posOM continue to make things difficult for with the divorce.

Meanwhile, stbxw is off again with posOM, leaving her girls behind for Easter.

Will be interesting to see how things proceed from here forward. 

Pass the popcorn, please.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Well, after many months, I received a call from posomW yesterday.
> 
> Apparently, she has been mulling over contacting me for a very long time.
> 
> We talked for nearly 3 hours. I can even begin to wrap my head around all that she revealed to me. The salient points: posOM is a repeat cheater, can't hold down a job, and lives off hand outs from his wealthy father. He's a real charmer and has a habit of looking for happiness in the arms of other men's wives. She finally kicked him to the curb after she found out a out him and his affair with my now stbxw. In her own words, she said there not a chance in hell he will step up for his own family let alone provde go the mile for any other woman and her children.
> 
> She even sent my wife a message giving her the names of his previos affair partners and saying that she has been in contact with me and has plenty of information about the escapades that she is prepared to expose to posOMs family, friends, and the court should posOM continue to make things difficult for with the divorce.
> 
> Meanwhile, stbxw is off again with posOM, leaving her girls behind for Easter.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how things proceed from here forward.
> 
> Pass the popcorn, please.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you have enough to go after him yourself?

Thinking we're closing in on a solution to this "restraining order" nonsense.

Congrats brother.

Long time coming.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> Do you have enough to go after him yourself?
> 
> Thinking we're closing in on a solution to this "restraining order" nonsense.
> 
> Congrats brother.
> 
> Long time coming.


Go after him how?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Go after him how?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know his parents' names?

Was your wife always this much of a material girl?


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## spun

Conrad said:


> You know his parents' names?


Yep.

His dad is a serial cheater too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spun

Conrad said:


> You know his parents' names?
> 
> Was your wife always this much of a material girl?


A closet material girl. Would bubble to the surface every now and again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Yep.
> 
> His dad is a serial cheater too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like it's time to pay them a visit.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> Sounds like it's time to pay them a visit.


posOmW invited me stay with her in his hometown
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> posOmW invited me stay with her in his hometown
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Likely a good time to visit them together.

His mother may have a conscience.

It's worth checking out.

Damn, will your sorry excuse for an STBXW be surprised.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> Likely a good time to visit them together.
> 
> His mother may have a conscience.
> 
> It's worth checking out.
> 
> Damn, will your sorry excuse for an STBXW be surprised.


I think she may already be feeling at least something.

4 phone calls and a text today to wish "her" girls a happy easter.

This chick usually drops of the map when she is out of town.

Plus, she said "she already celebrated Easter with them on Wednesday".

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> I think she may already be feeling at least something.
> 
> 4 phone calls and a text today to wish "her" girls a happy easter.
> 
> This chick usually drops of the map when she is out of town.
> 
> Plus, she said "she already celebrated Easter with them on Wednesday".
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is this metaphysical sense of when the tide is turning.

Make it so.


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## spun

Conrad said:


> There is this metaphysical sense of when the tide is turning.
> 
> Make it so.


Trouble (or lack thereof) is that I no longer feel like I care if it does...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Katy

spun said:


> Trouble (or lack thereof) is that I no longer feel like I care if it does...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The sheer satisfaction of it is enough...even if you don't care.

Happy Easter, sweetie!


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## Mr. Katy

Mr. Katy said:


> The sheer satisfaction of it is enough...even if you don't care.
> 
> Happy Easter, sweetie!


LOL! Sorry...this is Katy. I didn't know he was signed in.


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## spun

Mr. Katy said:


> LOL! Sorry...this is Katy. I didn't know he was signed in.


LOL!

Well at least you have full access to his accounts ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty

spun said:


> LOL!
> 
> Well at least you have full access to his accounts ;-)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hahaha. He was on my iPad, today, while visiting. I don't see any new posts, though, so he must just be a "lurker".


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## Conrad

Mr. Katy said:


> The sheer satisfaction of it is enough...even if you don't care.
> 
> Happy Easter, sweetie!


You and Spun need to get a room.

This is a family forum.


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## LongWalk

Hi Spun,

How did you feel about the belated response from the POSOMW? Do you wish you had been more active in making contact?


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## Mark72

Anything new going on?


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## spun

Mark72 said:


> Anything new going on?


Thought I would stop in here.

Rebound relationship gone sideways? Check.

And, an ex doing her best to avoid signing the decree.

Joy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Solon

spun said:


> Thought I would stop in here.
> 
> Rebound relationship gone sideways? Check.
> 
> And, an ex doing her best to avoid signing the decree.
> 
> Joy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What do you mean? Is your ex wife trying to avoid signing the decree? Did your rebound relationship go sideways? 

I have not been on here in a while. Same exact thing going on in my life. My wife is still not speaking to. I have not had one conversation with her since last September. She filed for divorce. Don't know what is going on in her head. Oh, well...


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## Conrad

spun said:


> Thought I would stop in here.
> 
> Rebound relationship gone sideways? Check.
> 
> And, an ex doing her best to avoid signing the decree.
> 
> Joy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Any reason why she's avoiding signing it?

Ever get a shot to speak to posOMW?


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## spun

Conrad said:


> Any reason why she's avoiding signing it?
> 
> Ever get a shot to speak to posOMW?


If I had to guess why she is putting off signing it---because she will be dropped from my health plan and is self employed.

I have spoken to posOmW for many hours.

Posom has cheated on her before. He is also a "high functioning alcoholic" in her own words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

spun said:


> If I had to guess why she is putting off signing it---because she will be dropped from my health plan and is self employed.
> 
> I have spoken to posOmW for many hours.
> 
> Posom has cheated on her before. He is also a "high functioning alcoholic" in her own words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like it's time for a strong push to the finish line.

She really hit the lottery.


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## tom67

spun said:


> If I had to guess why she is putting off signing it---because she will be dropped from my health plan and is self employed.
> 
> I have spoken to posOmW for many hours.
> 
> Posom has cheated on her before. He is also a "high functioning alcoholic" in her own words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


High functioning becomes low or no functioning give it time like the movie leaving las vegas.


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## Ms. GP

tom67 said:


> High functioning becomes low or no functioning give it time like the movie leaving las vegas.


Yeah. Active addiction only ends in three ways: jails, institutions, and death. Trust me, I've knocked off two.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower

spun said:


> If I had to guess why she is putting off signing it---because she will be dropped from my health plan and is self employed.
> 
> I have spoken to posOmW for many hours.
> 
> Posom has cheated on her before. He is also a "high functioning alcoholic" in her own words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is there anything your lawyer can do to move her along?


----------



## Tron

Ms. GP said:


> Yeah. Active addiction only ends in three ways: jails, institutions, and death. Trust me, I've knocked off two.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, but at least you have a great sense of humor!


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## spun

I never thought I'd live to see the day when I'd say it.

Life is grand at 50K and on the other side of divorce.

To all of you here thinking you won't ever get over the "love of your life" who kicked you to the curb...

Trust me, that's a bullish!t lie!


----------



## oviid

spun said:


> I never thought I'd live to see the day when I'd say it.
> 
> Life is grand at 50K and on the other side of divorce.
> 
> To all of you here thinking you won't ever get over the "love of your life" who kicked you to the curb...
> 
> Trust me, that's a bullish!t lie!


As I person who's in the early stages of a divorce I say "THANK YOU!!"

It's good to know there's a light at the end of this. :smthumbup:


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## Mark72

Glad to see that you are doing better! I was wondering where you were!


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## Conrad

Mark72 said:


> Glad to see that you are doing better! I was wondering where you were!


What about you?


----------



## Conrad

spun said:


> I never thought I'd live to see the day when I'd say it.
> 
> Life is grand at 50K and on the other side of divorce.
> 
> To all of you here thinking you won't ever get over the "love of your life" who kicked you to the curb...
> 
> Trust me, that's a bullish!t lie!


No lumber on that one.


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## Mark72

Conrad said:


> What about you?


Unsure about the future. Looks better, but I'm just really getting started on project Mark. Learning a lot and some things are sticking.


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## Conrad

Mark72 said:


> Unsure about the future. Looks better, but I'm just really getting started on project Mark. Learning a lot and some things are sticking.


Keep posting. Don't go quiet on us, that's how you backslide.


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## Mark72

Conrad said:


> Keep posting. Don't go quiet on us, that's how you backslide.


Well... I was trying to figure some things out on my own... stand a little on my own two feet... I have had some shiny moments and some tarnished ones. I'll send you a message later on when I am on my way home from work.


----------

