# Should I expose WH?



## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

My husband and I are in a long distance relationship and have been having problems for some time. He asked for "time" and "space" a few months ago and, although I had my suspicions for a while, I have just confirmed that he is having an affair with one of his co-workers.

Although I was kind of expecting it, when I finally got my husband to admit it on the phone last night, I was quite numb. I told him that I did not approve of the relationship (and the fact that he has decided to go on holiday with her rather than visit me), but that I was still willing to work on our marriage. He said he didn't want to hurt me but that he was almost certain he did not (and would not) want to work on our marriage. I told him I would give him another three months (until he is due to come home for another visit) of "time and space" and that, if he felt it was acceptable to become involved with someone during that period, perhaps I would too.

In the cold light of day I'm not sure what I should do. Given that, I had agreed to give my husband time and space (and never really clarified what that meant to him before) and then reactively told him I may become involved with someone else too, should I just leave the situation as is? Should I get in touch with him again and say that although I accept we have significant problems in our relationship, we are still married, and it is completely unacceptable that he has chosen to become involved with someone else, and that, even if we do end up going our separate ways, it will never negate the fact that he was unfaithful in our marriage (if you can call our current relationship that?). Or, do I just stop all contact with him?

The other option I've been looking at is exposing the affair. It seems to be more effective with women than men though...? 

The OW is single and, as she lives abroad, I have no idea who her family are. If I did expose the affair who should I expose it to? My husband's family? Our friends? The place where both my WH and the OH work? My husband and I are both intensely private people, if we did ever reconcile, I'd rather not have everyone know about the affair. Equally, my husband loves his job and, if it did have any negative repercussions on his employment (which I doubt it would), I don't think he would ever forgive me.

I'm thinking that if I did expose the affair I should only do so to my husband's parents and siblings and to her friends on Facebook.

Does anyone have any experience (positive or negative) or exposing a WH?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

It sounds like he has been gone from the marriage for a while now. It also sounds as if you are kind of checked out also.

Giving "time and space" is BS. He needs time to do what? Continue the affair? He has told you that he is almost certain the marriage means nothing to him. Believe him and plan from there.

Initiate divorce now.

And why are you worried about what he would think of you exposing the affair? He would never forgive you? Are you kidding? Was he concerned about your feelings when he went on holiday with OW leaving you alone?

Exposing the affair is a tool to help kill the affair and get the wandering spouse to wake up and possible heal the marriage. In this case, I don't see that happening. 

So expose far and wide if you need to do that to help YOU recover from this betrayal. Do not worry about what he will think. At this point it has to be about what is best for you.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So when he asked for this time and space, you guys didn't really discuss what that meant?

Does this woman know he is married?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

How long have you been married? How long have you been apart? And how long do you plan to still be apart?

Can't really be in a marriage if you're not around each other. I know with the current state of the economy some people have to make sacrifices to put a roof over their heads and food on the table but at what cost. Only a small percentage of people (from what I've seen) can handle this situation.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

No, we didn't really discuss what time and space meant. He asked for it at Christmas and I guess I was so shocked and sidelined by it all, and was probably afraid. 

Yes, the OW knows he's married.

My H has said that he still loves me and doesn't want to hurt me, but that he's almost certain doesn't want to continue our marriage. I appreciate his honesty and do know he is genuinely struggling with guilt and not wanting to be the 'bad' guy. I also do desperately want to reconcile. 

I guess I'm hoping that the whole thing will blow over, (read somewhere that most affairs only last 6 months??) and that if I wait it out (yet show him that I'm still getting on with my life) he MAY decide to return. 

Perhaps falsely hopeful I know...but if there is any chance I'd take it.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

We've been married for 12 years, apart for 9 months. Initially he was only meant to be there for one year, but he signed another year's contract. I was hoping to move out there with him but he has made it clear that he does not want me to do that (and now I obviously know why).

We have lived long-distance before and never had any issues so I didn't think this time would be any different...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes Absolutely expose him. He is cheating on you. You must do everything you can to kill the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

expose the affair it will make it more uncomfortable and inconvienent to continue, plus you have a better chance to R with more eyes.
Be warned he will be pissed, but sometimes you have to push them away to get them back.

Until OW is out of the picture you are in lossing battle


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

Yes, taking a more aggressive approach and exposing the affair would definitely upset him. I am obviously worried though that exposing an affair isn't a 'once size fits all solution' and, what may work for some couples, may not work for us. Knowing him, this type of aggressive approach would be something is unwilling to forgive. I suppose it is more as TDSC60 suggests that that, exposing the affair may be more about helping ME feel better. 

If I expose the affair now I'm concerned that part of me will always wonder what if I had just waited the few months until (or if) he came back from the summer. I've given him 17 years of my life, surely I can give him another 2 1/2 months? 

In the meantime though I suppose I could try doing more of a 180 and emailling him to say that, while I think there is a chance our marriage could still recover, it never will as long as he continues prioritising (and being involved) in his relationship with the OW and refuses to spend any time with me or work on our relationship. I'll accept that there are problems in our relationship but it is 100% his choice to be unfaithful and to abandon our marriage. I could tell him I need to start moving on with my life and I'm starting to make plans for the summer, so that, when he does come back for his holidays, he can stay at home and look after our house, pets etc while I go and do my own thing. By telling him it's his turn to look after everything here it would at least also perhaps prevent him from spending time with her during the summer.


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## talin (Apr 25, 2012)

Why screw up his life just to further your own means?

He wants out of the marriage. 

Let him go.

Maybe your own selfishness is what caused things to deteriorate to this point.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

Needs his space? Yep, that's what my husband said too and he was also working away from home on a contract. That space excuse is a load of garbage. Like your husband, mine decided one day that there was no hope for our marriage. He decided that on his on and his decisions are always correct in his mind. 
Do the 180. I wish I had done it sooner than I did, but I think you should begin the 180 now. Consult an attorney, start getting things in order on your side. If the marriage works out, then you have really done no harm by putting your affairs in order. He is thinking of himself only and now it is time for you to seriously think about yourself and your future without him.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Well there are two schools of thought here. 

One school of thought is to basically wait-out the affair. They usually last about 2 years though, and for that entire time in order to justify why it was okay for him to cheat, it is likely your husband will cast you in a very unfavorable light (such as abusive, etc.). Also during this entire time, she will be there with him...and you will not. Since most affairs begin not "for sex" but because some need is not being met such as admiration or companionship...you tell me who has a better chance of filling that need? You--thousands of miles away? Or her--right there with him? 

The other school of thought is that your husband made a promise to you to "forsake all others" and has not made any such vow to her--publicly or legally. In addition, chances are about 100% that if his company is an international company that they have some sort of Human Relations Policies on fraternization and sexual harassment between co-workers...and/or some sort of policy about using work time or resources for personal use. Thus, not only has he broken your vows, but he has most likely also committed an action that would result in his and/or her firing if it were to come to the light of day. 

So...HOW does he keep it from coming to the light of day, keep the swanky job, AND keep the girl? By making sure that he blames you for "driving him away" if you tell the truth to anyone such as family or work!! 

twl142, I have a newsflash for you. Marriages have survived one spouse or the other losing a job. Marriages have survived one spouse being fired! Marriages have survived one spouse being very, very angry at the other spouse. BUT NO MARRIAGE SURVIVES AN ACTIVE AFFAIR. 

Thus...the second school of thought is this: decide to fight for your marriage, and in order to give your marriage the best chance of recovering, you just *MUST* end the affair. In order to end the affair, you expose the truth: that your husband is cheating on you with a co-worker. You would tell your parents and siblings, his parents and siblings, your employer, his employer, your pastor/minister/spiritual leader, and anyone who's like a lifetime friend who can talk some sense to him to give up this affair and put work into his marriage. You may also want to expose to the OW that you have no intention of allowing her to continue committing adultery with your husband while quietly looking on; inform her that you intend to fight for your marriage! When he is furious with you for dragging his name through the mud, you recognize that tactic as a diversion--all you did was tell the truth: it was his ACTIONS (of adultery) that pulled his name through the mud! When he makes threats you recognize that tactic--that is a drug addict screaming out in pain at the loss of their drug. And because you LOVE him you recognize that a marriage can survive anger, but it just can not survive an affair. 

So it's up to you. School of thought #1....or school of thought #2.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

Talin--While no one is blameless in a relationship I fully accept that throughout our marriage I have often been thoughtless and selfish and have taken my H for granted. I have taken responsibility for my actions, apologised to my H, asked his forgiveness and have been making a number of positive personal changes (which he has acknowledged). Beyond that there is nothing else I can do about the past. 

Like many others on here the pain and hurt I feel is incredible. To say I am totally heart-broken is an understatement. Although sometimes part of me does just want to react and hurt him even a little, it is my choice to continue loving him and I am trying to do so as selflessly as I can. 

Yes, going out there he has discovered that he has a huge need for appreciation. He says he never realised how important this was to him and how he never really felt valued in our marriage (I also think he felt quite unvalued and his confidence took a knock when he was unable to find a job here). Having recently read the 5 Languages of Love I realised that when I used to try to show my husband my appreciation I wasn't using the right Love Language (or expressed my appreciation of him often enough). His new job and the OW are filling this need at the moment and it is making him feel happy and good about himself. Although, during one conversation he admitted that the problems in our marriage aren't that bad and everything hasn't been awful, he is at the stage for the last several months where he no longer recognises that there was ever anything good in our relationship and views it as always being 'unhealthy'. I guess this is his way of trying to feel less guilty and to justify his actions. 

Affaircare is right, living 2500 miles apart there really is very little way I can fill this need and cannot even try to compete with the OW. 

My H has said that he doesn't want me to hate him and cut him out of my life. He has said that he is still happy for me to email me. I think though that he has built so many barriers and is so emotionally "checked out" of our marriage that doing a 180 would have little effect. 

Exposing the affair is very tempting but, again, I'm worried that our relationship is too far gone for it to have any effect apart from potentially alienating my husband from some of his friends/family and possibly impacting his job. Apart from the fact that his job his fulfilling a major unmet need and makes him happy, I know my husband and, if my actions made him lose it he would never forgive me. (Being unable/unwilling to forgive is one of his main issues) Honestly, I am also worried that exposing the affair would also make me look somewhat desperate and needy. 

Yes, I hurt, yes I want us to reconcile, and yes I know that if he were willing we could actually create a fantastic marriage. While I do think my husband is in a "fog", and I genuinely do not believe in divorce, I don't know if I can simply step-aside and wait out the affair. Ultimately if he is not willing, while I will still always love him, I will need to accept his has decided his long-term happiness lies elsewhere. While I do have moments when I want to hurt them both, I accept the most loving and selfless thing to do may just be to let him go and continue to pursue his happiness on his own. 

As tempting as it is at the moment to even just contact the OW and tell her I'm not willing for her to just continue being involved with my husband while I quietly look on, I do think this would backfire and he would become quite protective of her. By physically rejecting me during his last two visits and choosing to spend his vacation time with her rather than me, he has shown me that his current loyalty lies with her... 

I think I may take a few days to consider the different options but, am leaning more towards doing a 180. In the meantime any other thoughts or viewpoints would be really welcome.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

No, I'm not checked out. During this crisis I've actually discovered depths of love for my husband that I never thought possible. I've just reached the stage where I've bared my heart and soul, been rejected and don't know if there is still any possible hope we can turn things around or whether it would be kinder to everyone to just try to heal and move on. It's also trying to find a balance between loving someone selflessly and being a door-mat.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm still leaning towards doing a 180 and have drafted a letter to my WH reiterating that I am committed to our marriage but saying that, if he isn't willing to work our our relationship or stop his A, while I'm not saying I will give up on our marriage I do need to start moving on and rebuilding my life--with or without him. I've tried to come across as strong and confident in the letter and not to make him feel guilty, or pressured. I think though, there are some places where I haven't been able to stop the hurt and betrayal I feel from coming in. The letter is around 2 1/2 pages long but, if anyone has time, I would appreciate any 'editoral' comments before I send it to him.

The other option I'm thinking about is telling him that I understand he is going on vacation with her to Thailand and can have his time and space to do that but, when he comes back, I am going to come over there and already have my ticket booked... I know this goes against a lot of advice...I'm just feeling that, had I not backed off and given him his space when things started to fall apart, his relationship with the OW wouldn't have escalated as it has and that, physically being there is perhaps my best chance of success...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Right now the on going affair is what is the enemy, until the OW is gone there is no hope for R. That's why exposing is recommended since it hurts the affair. It images it be visible to those around them and makes it a thing with real issues to deal with, and not the fantasy word they've been living in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## profos (Apr 19, 2012)

twl142 said:


> The other option I'm thinking about is telling him that I understand he is going on vacation with her to Thailand and can have his time and space to do that but, when he comes back, I am going to come over there and already have my ticket booked... I know this goes against a lot of advice...


It goes against a lot of advice because it's a horrible idea. You're giving him the green light to go on an exotic vacation with his mistress (not that you can stop it anyway) and then after they have this wonderful time you're going to fly over to see him and basically get right in his face. You are the LAST person he's going to want to see.

He's openly involved in this affair, he doesn't care about you or the marriage or anything other than his girlfriend.

You're wasting your time with this guy, sorry to say it.



Affaircare said:


> One school of thought is to basically wait-out the affair. They usually last about 2 years though


I don't recall ever reading that most affairs last "about 2 years".

Also let's say she waits the two years for it to naturally fizzle out. Does she check in from time to time to see how the affair is going? Let's say it runs the two years then ends as you say it will. Then what? He says "ok I'm tired of screwing the other woman, thanks for waiting 2 years, I'm back now, let's go have sex (until I decide to go screw someone else)"

Can you say "doormat"?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

profos said:


> It goes against a lot of advice because it's a horrible idea. You're giving him the green light to go on an exotic vacation with his mistress (not that you can stop it anyway) and then after they have this wonderful time you're going to fly over to see him and basically get right in his face. You are the LAST person he's going to want to see.
> 
> He's openly involved in this affair, he doesn't care about you or the marriage or anything other than his girlfriend.
> 
> You're wasting your time with this guy, sorry to say it.


I would take the $2,000, or $4000, or whatever it is you're spending to fly to Thailand and stay in a hotel, and instead hire a lawyer.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Right now the on going affair is what is the enemy, until the OW is gone there is no hope for R. That's why exposing is recommended since it hurts the affair. It images it be visible to those around them and makes it a thing with real issues to deal with, and not the fantasy word they've been living in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've been looking some more at the other threads on here about the pros and cons of exposing the A. I think its success does really depend on the situation and personalities involved and feel that, in my case, it would likely backfire. From the panic in my H's voice when I suggested he speak to our priest, I know he feels very guilty and exposing the A to his family and our mutual friends (his employer and close friends already know) would make him more ashamed and angry, which would likely push him away completely.

My H does still care about me. He has said that he doesn't want me to hate him and cut him out of my life. (Although this may be primarily to help him deal with his own guilt). 

I don't believe in divorce for various moral, personal and practical reasons. While I'm not against taking steps to secure my finances, if my H wants a divorce he is going to have to be the one to start the proceedings. Apart from the fact I want to R, financially I am in a far better position remaining married than I would be on my own. If we do divorce, not only will I lose my H, by also likely my house and my horses, and my quality of life would be considerably lower.

I appreciate all of the intentions behind telling me to move on, but, until any divorce papers are signed, I am not willing to give up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You assume that he is coming to where you live in the summer. Why would he do that? Has he said that he still plans to come to see you at that time?

Your plans will most likely lead to divorce. So you may as well file for divorce now and not put yourself through all of this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

twl142 said:


> I've been looking some more at the other threads on here about the pros and cons of exposing the A. I think its success does really depend on the situation and personalities involved and feel that, in my case, it would likely backfire. From the panic in my H's voice when I suggested he speak to our priest, I know he feels very guilty and exposing the A to his family and our mutual friends (his employer and close friends already know) would make him more ashamed and angry, which would likely push him away completely.
> 
> My H does still care about me. He has said that he doesn't want me to hate him and cut him out of my life. (Although this may be primarily to help him deal with his own guilt).
> 
> ...


Your husband is telling you that he still loves you and does not want you to cut him out of your life because he is 'cake eating'. He wants to have you and the OW. It's great for him as he has two women to meet his needs. Very nice for him... not so nice for you.

Until he realizes that he is going to lose you if he does not give up the affair, the affair will continue. And when this affair ends there will be another one. 

Being a doormat will only lead to him treating you like a doormat. It will not end the affair. It will not save your marriage.

Does your husband support you? Or do you work and support yourself. You should definitely do whatever you can to secure your finances. Do you have your own bank accounts? If not open some up and start putting money in them. 

As time goes on, the OW will not like that he has joint finances with you and one day you might wakeup to all the funds being moved so you cannot access them.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You assume that he is comeing to where you live in the summer. Why would he do that? Has he said that he still plans to come to see you at that time?
> 
> Your plans will most likely lead to divorce. So you may as well file for divorce now and not put yourself through all of this.


My H has to return due to his work visa. While he doesn't necessarily need to come to our actual home, he does need to come back to the country and has a return flight booked. When we spoke he did ask me if he was still welcome to come back. I asked him if he had any other plans for the summer and he said, no, not at the moment but he couldn't guarantee anything... 

If my current plans of doing a 180 will most likely lead to divorce, what other plan do you suggest? I cannot emphasize enough that I am not willing to be the one to file for D.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

If the option of divorce is completely off the table, what you really have is a one-sided open marriage. You have no leverage in this situation if exposure and D aren't possibilities.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Your husband is telling you that he still loves you and does not want you to cut him out of your life because he is 'cake eating'. He wants to have you and the OW. It's great for him as he has two women to meet his needs. Very nice for him... not so nice for you.
> 
> Until he realizes that he is going to lose you if he does not give up the affair, the affair will continue. And when this affair ends there will be another one.
> 
> ...


We both work and I currently control almost 100% of our finances. All of our accounts are joint accounts, but, living overseas he can only actually access 2 of them. He sends 90% of his salary home each month to me. It having both incomes that allows us to sustain our current lifestyle, house, horses etc. On my own salary alone I could not do it. 

Apart from threatening D there must be some other way to stop an affair???


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

profos said:


> I don't recall ever reading that most affairs last "about 2 years".
> 
> Also let's say she waits the two years for it to naturally fizzle out. Does she check in from time to time to see how the affair is going? Let's say it runs the two years then ends as you say it will. Then what? He says "ok I'm tired of screwing the other woman, thanks for waiting 2 years, I'm back now, let's go have sex (until I decide to go screw someone else)"
> 
> Can you say "doormat"?


First, I agree. Just letting him have his affair for two years is definitely NOT my recommendation. However, just because that is not what I would encourage, doesn't mean it's not a choice she could make. Hey we may not like it but she may well choose to "just wait." If that is her choice, though, I didn't want her to think "Oh it will be over in just a month or two" (or like she mentioned, she thought maybe it would be six months). Nope! If that is what twl142 chooses to do, it is much more likely she'll be waiting about 2 years. 

Yes, each affair is different--some are ONS (one night stands) and some last literally for decades! But here are the links indicating that statistically, affairs average about 2 years:

Infidelity Facts - Infidelity Statistics
Infidelity Statistics: Relationship Problems Uncovered
14 Surprising Facts about Marriage, Affairs & Divorce - iVillage
(just a few--you get the drift)


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Your husband is a cake eater. Asked if he could come back in summer? Pack up the rest of his things and leave them curbside.

Meanwhile, expose, expose, expose. Then file. He's as good as told you he doesn't want to be married to you anymore. Sorry to be harsh, but what more do you need, here?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

profos said:


> It goes against a lot of advice because it's a horrible idea. You're giving him the green light to go on an exotic vacation with his mistress (not that you can stop it anyway) and then after they have this wonderful time you're going to fly over to see him and basically get right in his face. You are the LAST person he's going to want to see.
> 
> He's openly involved in this affair, he doesn't care about you or the marriage or anything other than his girlfriend.
> 
> ...


I'm amazed that some women (I guess men too, not to be gender specific) will 'wait out' an affair. Cripes, I dated a guy once (he lied about being divorced) whose wife was waiting patiently at home with their 4 kids while he was out screwing around with multiple women. He even rented his own apartment to fool women (like me, unfortunately) into believing he was divorced. That was 3 years ago. As far as I know, his wife is still waiting it out. And she has every intention of welcoming him back with open arms once he's finished...Now THAT'S a doormat.

Why, why, WHY, people, do the sit around waiting for the scumbag husband (or wife) to chose them!


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

twl142 said:


> No, we didn't really discuss what time and space meant. He asked for it at Christmas and I guess I was so shocked and sidelined by it all, and was probably afraid.
> 
> Yes, the OW knows he's married.
> 
> ...


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

twl142 said:


> I don't believe in divorce for various moral, personal and practical reasons. While I'm not against taking steps to secure my finances, if my H wants a divorce he is going to have to be the one to start the proceedings. Apart from the fact I want to R, financially I am in a far better position remaining married than I would be on my own. If we do divorce, not only will I lose my H, by also likely my house and my horses, and my quality of life would be considerably lower.


so then it's a marriage of convenience, nothing more.

There's nothing "wrong" with that as long as you're ok with your husband being with another woman.

I guess life is full of these sorts of tradeoffs, to me nothing is worth being with a person who is having sex with someone else, even if it means giving up some of my creature comforts.

I'd be too unhappy and stressed out.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

twl142 said:


> From the panic in my H's voice when I suggested he speak to our priest, I know he feels very guilty and exposing the A to his family and our mutual friends (his employer and close friends already know) would make him more ashamed and angry, which would likely push him away completely.
> 
> *So he gets no consequences for his actions then. Making this "easy" on him is not going to bring him back to you. It's going to show him he can do anything he wants, endure a little complaining from you and it'll go away. And then he can do it again.*
> 
> ...


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

It sounds like he's basically left you for the OW. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It hurts like hell. However, trying to pressure him into fixing the marriage will have the exact opposite effect. If he wants time and space, he's telling you he wants out of this relationship. 

Expose the affair. That is, gather evidence and let those close to you and to your H know what's happened. Then, file for divorce. Don't contact him, don't reach out to him, don't try to reconcile because he does not want to do this. Either the expose and divorce will wake him up and he will realize that he can't have his cake and eat it, too, or your H will demonstrate that he wants out of the marriage by agreeing to it.

You can't save a marriage if your partner doesn't want to be in that marriage and your H is telling you loud and clear that he doesn't want to be in the marriage and wants to move on with the OW and doesn't want to work on the marriage; for him, this is over.

You have got to let him go. Read up on "Let them Go" and the 180. Expose the affair. Then, file for divorce. Holding on to him will only cause you more pain. He's been pretty explicit that he does not want to work on the marriage and he has even told you that he is involved with someone else. That's different from expressing doubt that things can work out or from expressing uncertainty about what he wants. He's certain about what he wants, but he's too much of a coward to tell you, which is why he is using the disingenuous "I don't want to hurt you" to basically put the decision for divorce in your hands instead of saying "I love you, but I don't want to be married any more", which is what his actions are saying in place of his words.

Let him go.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

moxy said:


> It sounds like he's basically left you for the OW. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It hurts like hell. However, trying to pressure him into fixing the marriage will have the exact opposite effect. If he wants time and space, he's telling you he wants out of this relationship.
> 
> Expose the affair. That is, gather evidence and let those close to you and to your H know what's happened. Then, file for divorce. Don't contact him, don't reach out to him, don't try to reconcile because he does not want to do this. Either the expose and divorce will wake him up and he will realize that he can't have his cake and eat it, too, or your H will demonstrate that he wants out of the marriage by agreeing to it.
> 
> ...


Yes, he left her, but is keeping the marital bed warm, just in case things don't work out with the OW. What a pig.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

twl142 said:


> My H has to return due to his work visa. While he doesn't necessarily need to come to our actual home, he does need to come back to the country and has a return flight booked. When we spoke he did ask me if he was still welcome to come back. I asked him if he had any other plans for the summer and he said, no, not at the moment but he couldn't guarantee anything...


Um, this sounds like he is using you for visa purposes. Considering that the marriage isn't an actual marriage (because he's traveling and involved with another woman), this could have legal consequences for you. Are you really okay with being used? Can you expand on this visa thing you're talking about?


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

twl142 said:


> My H has to return due to his work visa. While he doesn't necessarily need to come to our actual home, he does need to come back to the country and has a return flight booked. When we spoke he did ask me if he was still welcome to come back. I asked him if he had any other plans for the summer and he said, no, not at the moment but he couldn't guarantee anything...
> 
> If my current plans of doing a 180 will most likely lead to divorce, what other plan do you suggest? I cannot emphasize enough that I am not willing to be the one to file for D.


Your letter to him stating that you'll not give up on him, but hope he changes and comes back are about as far from 180 behavior as you can get.

Don't talk to him about your relationship anymore, heck cut back your communication bigtime...to just financial/work/extended family stuff as needed. No "how's your day hon" texts or questions about future plans. 

If you must send him some kind of last resort letter, keep it brief: tell him you love the man you married but he is not acting as the man she knew, disrespecting you openly and you won't live like that. If he wants to reconcile with you it'll be on him to try, and that you have no interest in waiting indefinitely for an answer on whether or not HE wants to do something. Tell him you love him, but clearly he doesn't feel the same about you as he is hurting you so blatantly, and you deserve better. 

He keeps saying he can't guarantee anything? And you're okay with that? I'm sorry, I know it's hard to see from inside the situation and you are in a lot of pain, but you have given your WH *all* of the power in your relationship, and he is abusing it like crazy. Take some back! Take it all back if need be, and start by respecting yourself and what kind of a life you want/deserve.

Divorce is not the end of the world...yes it sucks pretty hard, and no one enters marriage expecting to be ending it by choice someday...but the good times of the past are memories now, and he's out banging some coworker, taking her on luxury vacations (??!) with your money (by proxy). That is your husband now.

Think hard before sending a heartfelt letter laying out how much you love him, and how he has all the power of decision because you're not going to do anything about it. I know that's not what you said you'd say, but that's the message coming through. You have to be willing to end the marriage to save it...as long as you're afraid of losing him and what you once had, you're in no position of power. And face it - he's already gone, he's told you so. Prob one of the only honest things he's said to you lately.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

profos said:


> Also let's say she waits the two years for it to naturally fizzle out. Does she check in from time to time to see how the affair is going? Let's say it runs the two years then ends as you say it will. Then what? He says "ok I'm tired of screwing the other woman, thanks for waiting 2 years, I'm back now, let's go have sex (until I decide to go screw someone else)"
> 
> Can you say "doormat"?


Also back up plan, the 2nd choice, second stringer. Who the hell wants to R with a WS when the the only reason the WS came back is because their affair fizzled out. 

You have to have some VERY low self esteem to do that. Then the WS is only there until their next affair.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Your husband is a cake eater. Asked if he could come back in summer? Pack up the rest of his things and leave them curbside.
> 
> Meanwhile, expose, expose, expose. Then file. He's as good as told you he doesn't want to be married to you anymore. Sorry to be harsh, but what more do you need, here?


There are cases where people do change their mind (I'm one of them). It is normal for feelings to fluctuate. Throughout our marriage there have been times (sometimes several months long) when I have not "been in love" with my H, have contemplating leaving (but not necessarily getting divorced) and told my H that. Should I have told him those things? No. Did they help contribute to my current marriage problems? Yes. 

I guess because I have been in the position where I was no longer in love with my husband, questioned our relationship and then had my commitment, desire and 'in loveness' return (again sometimes slowly over several months) I am hoping that a similar thing can happen now the tables have turned.

I can understand why the A has happened and I do not condone it. My H, however, is not a scumbag. He has made (and is making) some bad choices and mistakes, but who hasn't?

In terms of being a doormat, I have no intention of quietly sitting back waiting, doing nothing for years on end. I have currently given him 3 more months and, in the meantime, am trying to live my own life as well as possible, and to try to get advice and support that would help end his affair.

I have taken on board some of the suggestions I've received I am planning on starting a 180 and have been drafting a letter to send to him.

Given, though, that one of my H's main complaints was he never felt appreciated or important, I'm not sure how extreme of a 180 I should do. Do I stop contacting him (meanwhile knowing the OW is fulfilling his need for appreciation)? Or do I still occasionally get in touch with him to show him that, yes, I'm busy living my life and not sitting home alone crying in the corner, but he and our relationship is still important to me?

I am not completely to blame, but my own selfishness and focus on my own individual happiness did contribute a lot to my current situation. Maybe by trying to become a better person, become less selfish and start to love my husband selflessly, without any expectation, he will develop new hope for our relationship. Maybe he won't but at least I can then hopefully have the peace of mind that I actually tried and there was nothing else I could have done. 

Whether I went down the route of having a bitter divorce or whether I went down the route of having the patience and strength to try to save my marriage yet, still ultimately failed, I would (and will) still always love my husband. With a bitter divorce though, my love would be tinged with feelings of anger and regret.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

I find it hard to believe that you control 90% of the family finances. What's leftover for his concubine?

But let's say this is true. Now would be a great time to set up that offshore account because your marriage is going to be over sooner or later.

By the way, all that material stuff means nothing if you're miserable. Like the saying goes, 'you can't take it with you.'

Divorce his a** and move on.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

twl142 said:


> Should I have told him those things? No.


Yes. He's your husband and you're supposed to share your feelings with him, no matter how hard.



twl142 said:


> Did they help contribute to my current marriage problems? Yes.


Maybe, but not to making it okay for him to cheat.




twl142 said:


> I can understand why the A has happened and I do not condone it. My H, however, is not a scumbag. He has made (and is making) some bad choices and mistakes, but who hasn't?


That particular bad decision? Lots of people haven't done that. He may not be a "scumbag" in your eyes, but as far as the majority of people in the world tend to think when looking at this situation in black and white...he is.



twl142 said:


> In terms of being a doormat, I have no intention of quietly sitting back waiting, doing nothing for years on end. I have currently given him *3 more months *and, in the meantime, am trying to live my own life as well as possible, *and to try to get advice and support that would help end his affair*.


You're getting lots of advice on how to end the affair. But it sounds like you don't want to take it. Giving him three months to be alone w the OW and bond with her is not a way to end an affair. I know you want to resolve this without all the work, stress and pain that is to come, but it's coming...and we're all here to support you through it and help as best we can.



twl142 said:


> I have taken on board some of the suggestions I've received I am planning on starting a 180 and have been drafting a letter to send to him.


I'd recommend posting your drafted letter here for comments first, or feel free to PM to me or others if you want an objective opinion on how it comes across.



twl142 said:


> Given, though, that one of my H's main complaints was he never felt appreciated or important, I'm not sure how extreme of a 180 I should do. Do I stop contacting him (meanwhile knowing the OW is fulfilling *his need for appreciation*)?


Do you feel he deserves to be appreciated right now? Think hard before answering.

Stop contacting for anything other than practical matters, study the 180 and do it. You're across the world from him anyway, you have to do whatever you can to show him you are detaching due to his behavior. If he wants to talk about the relationship, go ahead and listen. But don't beg, plead, express endless hope, etc because it will only annoy him.



twl142 said:


> With a bitter divorce though, my love would be tinged with feelings of anger and regret.


That he created. What happens if OW becomes pregnant? Or hubby brings home an STD for you? These are risks he's creating. Divorce doesn't have to be bitter, it just has to be a decision based on what's truly best for you.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

OP is hoping someone will chime in and tell her that happy ending story about the time when the wife held on, while the husband went off and did as he pleased without her, humiliating her every step of the way, then coming to his senses and realizing that it was his wife, not the OW, that he wanted all along! Highly unlikely. And even if the OPs H does give up the affair; this will hang over the marriage forever.

OP you said earlier that you were hoping to start a family soon...what if he starts one without you, will you still be clinging on like this.


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## czechmate (Apr 4, 2012)

twl124, when I read your posts it was like it was me that was talking. While the situation is different (my H is having a long-distance affair with an old high school flame), the feelings are identical. I've also been struggling to decide if I should expose this. I've gotten many comments that I should but in my heart I feel like if we are able to work things out that this could be a bad move. On the other hand, although I can't prove it, I'm pretty sure he's still contacting the OW. I initially said I wanted to go to MC and H grudingly agreed. But the fact that he still has a connection to the OW (oh, who by the way is also married) makes me think it isn't going to work.

I definitely feel conflicted. I'm tired of playing second fiddle to the OW but I deeply love my H and want to work it out. So no real advice here. I just wanted to tell you I understand what you are going through. I've never felt so alone, empty, and heartbroken ever in my life.

I will be glad to look over your letter, if you'd like.


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## Peachy Cat (Apr 15, 2012)

Learn about codependency and learn how to NOT enable him to keep you waiting. He's leading you on because he will lose face at church, with friends and family, etc.

The OW knows about you... think about how she's gloating over the fact that he continually chooses her over you; if that doesn't piss you off, nothing will.

I'm so sorry you are hurting and I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

I meant to post this reply to everyone last night, but accidently put it on my other thread...

"Ok, I have been considering everyone's replies and am possibly thinking about this different plan.

1) Call H and ask him if he would come back home during his holiday in May rather than go to Thailand with OW
2) If he refuses to come back in May (which I'm 99.9% sure he will) ask him if he wants a divorce
3) If he says no, say that I'm not willing for him to continue A and he can either come back home now or I will go out there with him until he is due to return for the summer holidays
4) If he says yes, a) expose the affair to his family, saying I have tried to reconcile but he is not interested and b) expose the affair to the OW's friends and contact her"

In the cold light of the next day, I still think I'll go for this plan, rather than wait quietly another 2 1/2 months BUT, I would bother exposing the affair to the OW. I'm pretty sure they all know already--in the photos of them on Facebook my husband is still wearing his wedding ring so it's not like she can argue she thought he was single! I think getting in touch with her/her friends may be temporarily satisfying for me but, in the end, I would rather keep my dignity and rise above her.

I'm also not sure whether I should call my H or just write him an email. Writing an email would be less emotionally and easier for us both, but I really think that it should be a conversation we have face-to-face and that, if that isn't possible, the phone is the next best thing (and would likely be much harder for him than me).

I am going to try to make an appointment to see a solicitor tomorrow. 

I am still against divorce and think, if he were willing, my marriage could have not just worked but been really happy and fulfilling (as I'm sure a lot of others on here wanting to R do too). Whilst I would be prepared to try to forgive an A if my H expressed any remorse or willingness to end it, I am not prepared to just allow my H to think I condone his behaviour and that it is ok carry on with the OW. 

In one last attempt to "intellectually reason" with my H (which I know I shouldn't do) I did send him an excerpt today from the 5 Love Languages on how it is possible to rebuild feelings of love... When I sent it to him though I did also say that, I wouldn't send him anything else I've read unless his specifically interested or asks...


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

Should have proofread my post first-- "I WOULDN'T bother exposing or contacting the OW. Not would!


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

canuckprincess said:


> I'm so sad for you. Do something to get your self esteem up.
> People change, let him go for your our sake. He sounds toxic!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks canuckprincess. In a lot of ways I know my life could be a lot worse--I have good friends, a good job, I've never looked better (I'm in my early 30s and still get id'd), a family who cares about me, my health. I am actually usually quite confident. I think it's just that I've always been able to cope with things and this has totally and utterly knocked me. 

I'd love to be angry with him, to just be able to let him go. We've been together since I was 15 though, he's part of my childhood, we've grown up together and he's really the only person that I ever really let see the 'real' me. Although I know he doesn't define me, I'm not only losing my husband, I'm losing part of who I was and who I am. 

I'm sure I'll get through the grieving process and get up and dust myself off, but, it just seems lately that each day is getting harder rather than easier.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> OP is hoping someone will chime in and tell her that happy ending story about the time when the wife held on, while the husband went off and did as he pleased without her, humiliating her every step of the way, then coming to his senses and realizing that it was his wife, not the OW, that he wanted all along!


Yep. Only in the movies...


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Yep. Only in the movies...


Although I agree this doesn't happen often, I, any many others such as Michele Weiner Davis, Gary Chapman and Tim Clinton, don't believe it ONLY ever happens in the movies. My H's father had an A when he was young and his parents recovered. I also personally know two other couples where, after having an A, separating and living with other people, they reconciled and went on to have happy marriages. In each case, there were children involved which may have helped act as an extra incentive to try and make things work. 

While this isn't likely going happen in my case, I still think that it possible for other people. Negativity, hopelessness and selfish personal interest are far more damaging to any relationship (and your own self of self and peace of mind) than anything else.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

If you do a 180, please remember its purpose. It's to help YOU get to a place where you can move on. The fact that some spouses are affected by it is a byproduct. Given the physical separation that you both are already used to, I suspect it will just make it easier foe him to continue doing what he's doing.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

twl142 said:


> Although I agree this doesn't happen often, I, any many others such as Michele Weiner Davis, Gary Chapman and Tim Clinton, don't believe it ONLY ever happens in the movies. My H's father had an A when he was young and his parents recovered. I also personally know two other couples where, after having an A, separating and living with other people, they reconciled and went on to have happy marriages. In each case, there were children involved which may have helped act as an extra incentive to try and make things work.
> 
> While this isn't likely going happen in my case, I still think that it possible for other people. Negativity, hopelessness and selfish personal interest are far more damaging to any relationship (and your own self of self and peace of mind) than anything else.


The thing is, my husband had an emotional affair for four and a half years. That's nearly 5 years. I had no idea it was approaching some kind of record until I came to TAM. He only ended it for good 10 weeks ago.

But my husband did not come back to me because I exhibited positivity. And he didn't come back because I wasn't selfish--in a sense. It was only when I turned toward making MYSELF a better person from the inside out and he realized I was a DIFFERENT more improved version of myself that he was prepared to give up the EA.

Here is the irony: all that changing that I did? I did it during a period I thought the affair had ended. And I didn't do it for him!! I did it all for me. Because in the end, YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELF while you're here on earth. If you believe in God, as I do, well, God is with you to. 

But NO OTHER HUMAN BEING can fill the void in your heart. It's just not possible.

The hardest truth I ever had to learn was that you cannot control another human being.

He has to want to commit to the marriage. And as much as it breaks my heart to say this--we don't see any evidence of that.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

Met with my solicitor today. 

In the country where I live the law is that, when there are no children, its usually automatically 50/50. Unfortunately, this would mean it would cost me around $100,000 to buy my husband out of our home. He would then pocket the $100,000 plus continue to take home the $3000 disposal cash he earns from his job each month. Meanwhile, I would have no savings, a mortgage I couldn't really afford and would barely have enough to meet my day-to-day expenses. I could technically sell the house, but the cost of rent in my area would be the same/more than my mortgage.

So frustrating that he's the one who is leaving the marriage and having an A, and I'm the one left struggling not just emotionally but also financially! 

Solicitor said my only chance may be to try to suggest a slightly better settlement while he is still feeling guilty...


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

twl142 said:


> Solicitor said my only chance may be to try to suggest a slightly better settlement while he is still feeling guilty...


It has and does happen.

I am sorry, I agree it's profoundly unfair.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

twl142 said:


> Unfortunately, this would mean it would cost me around $100,000 to buy my husband out of our home. He would then pocket the $100,000 plus continue to take home the $3000 disposal cash he earns from his job each month. Meanwhile, I would have no savings, a mortgage I couldn't really afford and would barely have enough to meet my day-to-day expenses. I could technically sell the house, but the cost of rent in my area would be the same/more than my mortgage.


If he's entitled to 100k then you have a 100k in equity as well, sure if you sell you'd have to pay rent but you'd now have 100k in the bank that would be earning interest that could go toward rent and you could dip into the principal as needed. You could also get a roommate which would help you save even more. A mortgage might be the same as the rent but with an apartment the overhead and maintenance is usually much less and utilities are often included. 

Plus he's the high income earner, I don't get why you cant go after him for spousal support for a few years.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

Unfortunately, really no such thing as spousal support over here (unless I couldn't work for medical reasons or had been a stay at home mom...)

Woke up at the crack of dawn with the birds singing, feeling overcome with grief. Think today is the day H is leaving to go on holiday with OW. 

I'm sure I probably know what the advice may be, but would there perhaps be any point or hope in contacting the one close friend my H has confided in (and turned to guidance for)? My H always been very easily influenced by his surroundings (and by the company he keeps). Although it's been 3 months since he first confided in his friend, perhaps his friend could still have some influence either way.

I'm not suggesting I contact his friend with the (direct) purpose of asking him to intervene on my behalf and ask H to consider giving our marriage another chance. Although I will say I understand H's friend loyalty lies with H and that I cannot ask him to do anything, I will request that he does not tell my H I have contacted him. My H said that his friend offered him an 'objective' view and did not just tell H to 'end our marriage'. 

I suppose my purpose in contacting H's friend would be to 'try to explain or describe things from my perspective': how despite my instincts screaming for me to go out to see H since November I love H and respected H's wishes that I did not do so, how when I asked H in December if he was involved with someone else and he said 'No' I believed him (had I known about OW I would have gone out in Jan, despite H's wishes), how I acknowledge our marriage was never perfect and there are things would need to change, I feel since H's emotional involvement with OW has developed his no longer recognises that there ever was (or could still be) any value, worth or love in our marriage. I would tell him I truly love H and want to reconcile, but I am finished trying to fight for our marriage and, I guess by contacting him, I am hoping to achieve some small bit of the peace my H seems to have achieved..


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

At this point I would ckean out the bank accounts, take hubbies stuff down to goodwill and donate it and file for divorce.

Oh if I would be canceling credit cards and any hotel and flight reservation he has.

It is far far past time to use the nuclear option on him.

Wow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

If only it were that easy!

Problem is though that, although when all of this started I did question whether I loved the ideal of being married, or whether I love H himself, it's all made me realise just how much I love HIM. 

I accept he doesn't love me anymore, that I didn't show him I loved him when I had him and that, me loving him now probably comes across as sad and desperate, but there it is.

It's just whether I selflessly love him and let him go to enjoy his new found happiness or if I continue fighting/hoping for our 'marriage' (which really only now exists in name only)...

Seems regardless of what I decide the only thing I really can do is 'go dark' and Get a Life. 

If someone, anyone, has been in a similar situation and have successfully recovered their marriage I'd love to know how you did it!!!!! For all of the hundreds of thousands of marriages like mine that have fallen apart there must be 2 or 3 where people have salvaged things...


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

twl142 said:


> I'm sure I probably know what the advice may be, but would there perhaps be any point or hope in contacting the one close friend my H has confided in (and turned to guidance for)? My H always been very easily influenced by his surroundings (and by the company he keeps). Although it's been 3 months since he first confided in his friend, *perhaps his friend could still have some influence either way*.


To paraphrase Percy Sledge: When a man loves a woman, he'll turn his back on his best friend if he puts her down.

So no. His friend won't have any kind of influence on him. Nada. Zippo. Zilch.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

So you don't think exposure of any type would work?

I am pretty sure my H's parents and older brother would support our marriage fully (although they would be very uncomfortable discussing it). There is also another couple who, although we are not exceptionally close to, I know would support our marriage. It's the influence bit that I don't think is presently there (although has been in the past). 

My H can be very easily influenced. Again, I may be grasping at straws here and know there is very little way I could actually ever tell, but depending on how 'closed' my H's mind is to the influence of his family (and possibly our friends), there may be a chance that their influence could grow or develop again. Alternatively my H has also recently said that he DOES NOT want a marriage like his parents, so perhaps he really has shut his mind to anything they may say.

I guess I need to weigh up the risks of trying to get his family on board and seeing if they could influence him vs. contacting them and looking like a needy, clingy, desperate W.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

I think exposure is still one of your best bet for saving your marriage. However, his friend is not going to be able to convince him to give up his new love.

You need to implement the 180 and use the advice and tools that have been suggested to you by the wise folks here.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

twl142 said:


> Problem is though that, although when all of this started I did question whether I loved the ideal of being married, or whether I love H himself, it's all made me realise just how much I love HIM.


I am going to be very honest. I find this statement by you to be disturbing.

I think your first instinct was the right one: that you loved being married, vs. being married to him. He treats you like dirt, and you discover a passionate love for him?

Finding out my husband cheated on me had the 100% opposite effect and I would expect most BSs say the same. There was an initial crisis and desire to save the marriage, but as the full EVIL of the betrayal sunk in, it made me question why I would WANT to be with someone who was so selfish and who made such awful choices with no thought to me at all.

A WS who continues to betray you with your full knowledge is taking that to an even greater level. They KNOW that they're hurting you, and they KNOW that you KNOW. There is a point after this continuing that my love would start to turn to disdain, disgust, and yes, some type of dislike or hate.

My feelings that scare me the most are when I think of my husband as a COWARD for cheating on me. That is my core feeling. If I think about it too long, it would be quite easy for me to find him repulsive. I have to concentrate with all my might on his other wonderful qualities. I have to fight this disgust.

I don't see any of that in you. I see someone who decides that the MORE he is humiliating you, the more you run after him. This is a recipe for zero self-esteem and self-hatred. Instead of being increasingly angry and disgusted with him, you will find that you feel this way about yourself. But you may already be there.

I am sorry for all that you are going through. I have huge compassion for you. But you need to devote some energy toward loving YOURSELF. That is what I take away from all the things you've posted.


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## twl142 (Apr 15, 2012)

I came to the realisation that I loved my H BEFORE I became aware of the A. When I found out he was involved with someone else I did question whether I could still be married to him (even if he did at some stage decide he wanted to reconcile and end the A). 

I am not willing to be in an open marriage for the rest of my life, but do feel that, if my H were willing and remorseful, we could move on.

At this stage my H is not 'cake-eating' he has made it clear he does not want to work on our marriage and, from his perspective, things are over in all but name. He no longer loves me and either does not want or care if I still love him.

Yes, by not having the courage to DIRECTLY tell me or ask me for a divorce he has been incredibly cowardly and cruel. 

All of this has, however, also made me realise and accept some not particularly nice things about myself. I am not perfect and, throughout our marriage have also acted in ways that have been unintentionally or intentionally cowardly and cruel. 

By asking my H to consider giving our marriage another chance I am effectively asking him to forgive and moved past these, equally I must also expect that I would be willing to forgive and move past his cowardly and cruel behaviour.

I appreciate all of the concern about my self-esteem and self-hatred. I do feel very guilty about a lot things I have done in marriage, but overall my self-esteem is average to good. Along with the not so nice things about myself (which I'm working on) I recognize I have a lot of good qualities and am, overall a pretty good person. I also recognize that, in many ways, my position isn't that bad and could be a lot worse (e.g. I'm healthy, I have good friends, caring family, active social life, good job etc). 

I take your point though that I do need to be more gentle with myself and allow myself more time to work through things and not just expect that I should be able to cope and carry on as usual.


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