# Need input: Friendship between male and female.



## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

I have been thinking heavily lately about my marriage/ last relationship. There are a few things that have bothered me about it. I am mostly wondering what others feel are appropriate between friends of the opposite sex. I have examples that I feel are sound, but I don't want to steer the dialog by starting with my examples. This is mostly in regards to being sensitive to your partner and respecting your friends relationship(ie being aware enough to see things your friend in a relationship might miss).


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

I have a close female friend that I knew for years before I met my
current wife. There has never been any history of anything sexual or romantic between us. 

My wife has seen the dynamic with my female friend and although I think she is somewhat more "cautious" anytime I might be alone with her, she is okay with it. And she is right not to be suspicious.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

There are a few things I've done such as:

I will not invite a lady friend into my house if my wife is not home.
I won't get alone in a room with the door closed with a lady. 
If we're inviting them to our house, I'll let my wife invite her. This let's my wife have control over the situation, and makes sure I'm not pushing her to an uncomfortable degree. 
If I'm emailing this person, my emails are open for my wife to read (she doesn't normally read them, but she knows she has a standing, open invitation to do so.)
If I'm talking to that person on the phone, within reason, I'll walk into the room where my wife is. Of course, they may call when she's not home, so reasonable conversations are acceptable, but I'm trying again to be sure my wife doesn't feel threatened by it at any point. For the same reason, I won't initiate a phone call with that person unless my wife is home, and near.

With the exception of not being alone with that person, they're more guidelines than rules, and really, all of them are to make sure I'm not in a position to be tempted, and to make sure my wife knows her position is not being threatened.


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

Lionelhutz said:


> I have a close female friend that I knew for years before I met my
> current wife. There has never been any history of anything sexual or romantic between us.
> 
> My wife has seen the dynamic with my female friend and although I think she is somewhat more "cautious" anytime I might be alone with her, she is okay with it. And she is right not to be suspicious.


I had a friend I met in school. I know I made some comments to my gf(eventual w now stbx) that were inappropriate jokes. I wish I had been a little more mature then. She demanded that I never go anywhere private with the "s***". I saw it as a problem so I quit hanging out with her. now she doesn't even talk to me. I did like her when we were having problems, but I never acted on them nor did I tell my friend. I later told gf(years later) and said I was sorry. I can think of several unnerving occasions where the same was not extended to me and my fears.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

It's not much to ask to make your spouse feel you're protecting the marital relationship and making it a priority. That's the least I can do for my husband. So while I have male friends some of whom I've known for over 15 years, I keep things very platonic. 

-A male friend doesn't come to my house unless my husband is also there.
-My husband knows who my friends are. There aren't secret friendships.
-I don't flirt with any male friend
-I don't talk to male friends about any marital problems.
-I don't bad mouth my spouse
-I don't call or text anyone more than call/text my spouse. 
-Any email I write to a male friend can be read by my spouse. My spouse knows my email passwords and I know his. There's nothing to hide. In fact, quite often, I'll ask him to check my email because I'm feeling lazy. 

Only two friends, both from work, have tried to flirt overtly with me, but I've stopped them as soon as they started crossing the line.


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

shy_guy said:


> There are a few things I've done such as:
> 
> I will not invite a lady friend into my house if my wife is not home.
> I won't get alone in a room with the door closed with a lady.
> ...


This sounds like a great ideas. I wish that we had them. These make sense to me. This sounds like what I would do.:iagree:


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

shy_guy said:


> There are a few things I've done such as:
> 
> I will not invite a lady friend into my house if my wife is not home.
> I won't get alone in a room with the door closed with a lady.
> ...


How about if it's a gay male friend?


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> It's not much to ask to make your spouse feel you're protecting the marital relationship and making it a priority. That's the least I can do for my husband. So while I have male friends some of whom I've known for over 15 years, I keep things very platonic.
> 
> -A male friend doesn't come to my house unless my husband is also there.
> -My husband knows who my friends are. There aren't secret friendships.
> ...


Those are very good and fair seeing as they are a two way street.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

losing_hope said:


> How about if it's a gay male friend?


I've had a number of gay coworkers. I'd say it's fair to give them the same treatment. Sometimes, it's hard to be sure.

The main principle is to make sure I'm not tempted and to make sure my wife is respected. That's usually pretty easy to deal with.


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

One that I always followed was never drink/get drunk around someone of the opposite sex.


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## lou (Apr 22, 2011)

My STBX-H had an EA with a friend of his. This didn't make me feel like male/female friendships should be always wrong, however. I think the main thing is that your spouse's comfort should always be first and foremost. If they aren't comfortable with your friendship you should be willing to let them go. Sometimes they see or can sense things you can't. I was suspicious of the girl from the onset and I knew she was into him but he just said I was ridiculous and like a "little sister" (gross). 

I do think having an open book with your opposite gendered friends is the best idea and that they are ALWAYS a FRIEND of your marriage. If your opposite gendered friend ever says anything negative about your marriage or your partner you should probably let them go. Such a bad sign.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

Some people can have male/female relationships without it getting sexual, as long as both parties have clear boundaries. If that isn't the case and if your partner is putting a friendship above the relationship then that person needs to stay clear away from male/female relationships. 

So it can happen, just depends on the person. I'm very happy with my non sexual relationships with my guy friends. But they will never come before my husband.


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

lou said:


> My STBX-H had an EA with a friend of his. This didn't make me feel like male/female friendships should be always wrong, however. I think the main thing is that your spouse's comfort should always be first and foremost. If they aren't comfortable with your friendship you should be willing to let them go. Sometimes they see or can sense things you can't. I was suspicious of the girl from the onset and I knew she was into him but he just said I was ridiculous and like a "little sister" (gross).
> 
> I do think having an open book with your opposite gendered friends is the best idea and that they are ALWAYS a FRIEND of your marriage. If your opposite gendered friend ever says anything negative about your marriage or your partner you should probably let them go. Such a bad sign.


My thoughts are exactly yours. I think that same sex friends can be just as problematic, but for other reasons. I wish I had been better able to voice my feelings properly long ago,too late now. We promised to keep things between us, but I have doubts she did any better than I did. I just felt cornered and needed someone to talk to since she didn't. Disconcerting to know that the friends that supposedly said things about me are now in pursuit mode for sure. While she may or may not have initiated any of this, it still leaves me nauseous.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Love Song said:


> Some people can have male/female relationships without it getting sexual, as long as both parties have clear boundaries. If that isn't the case and if your partner is putting a friendship above the relationship then that person needs to stay clear away from male/female relationships.
> 
> So it can happen, just depends on the person. I'm very happy with my non sexual relationships with my guy friends. But they will never come before my husband.


This is how I feel too. I can and have platonic friends of the opposite sex, but none of them come before my husband. He hasn't ever said that he's bothered by my friendships, but if he did, if he wanted me to keep my distance from one of the friends, I wouldn't dismiss it or tell him he's just being jealous for no reason.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I have 3 male friends.

My husband knows about them. I don't talk to them often and when I talk, it's nothing my husband doesn't already know.

There's never been a sexual tension between us. 

If Hubs had an issue, I'd cut ties. But he is thankful to one of my male friends who was my rock during our separation. Not to get into my pants, but to keep me on my spiritual path.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Both you and your spouse should be on the same page regarding opposite sex friendships. A lot of the issues I see on TAM are due to spouses feeling differently about it and not communicating effectively or explicitly ignoring the spouses thoughts on it.

If you or your spouse was a person for whom interacting with the opposite sex meant escalation to a physical relationship, then opposite sex friends are not for you.

Both my wife and I have had opposite sex friends since before our marriage. While we were dating I specifically introduced her to a good friend of mine to let her know that I had woman friends whom were just friends. So this has been our understanding from the beginning.

Here are some of the boundaries that I have regarding opposite sex friends:

•	Respect any gut feelings your spouse has regarding your opposite sex friends. Their opinion should matter more than the friendship and they can sometimes see stuff you can’t.
•	Don’t escalate contact (in person, talk, phone, text, FB etc.). It should be no more than any of your same sex friends. If it keeps growing this is a sign of an EA.
•	Don’t do things for opposite sex friends you don’t normally do for your same sex friends.
•	Include your spouse in as many activities with friends as possible
•	Say nothing that you can't say in front of your spouse
•	No bad talking about either spouse. Don’t confide or unload emotionally about your spouse. Don’t become an ear to an opposite sex friends marriage problems. Keep that off limits.
•	Minimize alone time
•	No touching
•	Transparency with communication. So secret email accounts or unknowable passwords. The understanding that we can ask for the info at anytime. We share passwords for email, facebook and other accounts.

Even with good boundaries in place you are accepting a certain amount of risk by having opposite sex friends. Feelings can develop in a blink of an eye that may threaten your marriage. You need to be in tune with your feelings and your spouses gut feelings over your friendships to be able to pull the plug quickly to avoid slipping into the EA black hole. I know because I nearly slipped in myself. Fortunately my wife saw it and I listened to her gut before I really understood myself what was going on. 

Here is my original thread on the topic:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...27621-cross-gender-friendship-boundaries.html


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's so true that you must know yourself.

Hubs has a lot of female friends. None are more important than the others and not one of them comes before me. He has always hung out with girls. His HS yearbooks are only signed by girls. lol. He was on the dance team in middle school because he was the "lifter" and he got to hang out with his best friends. Girls.

He's never been a guys guy. More the artist, dreamer, listener, etc. I trust him with his friends. One of his friends is now one of my best friends. He does have male friends now. I know them all...even the girls...and it's no big deal. He doesn't go out anyway. lol.

He can handle having female friends and knows the boundaries.

I have my male friends but will not make new ones. Why? Because I don't trust myself. I don't see why I'd want male attention other than my husband and if I did, it wouldn't be a good thing. So I jsut don't do it.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Agast84 said:


> I have been thinking heavily lately about my marriage/ last relationship. There are a few things that have bothered me about it. I am mostly wondering what others feel are appropriate between friends of the opposite sex. I have examples that I feel are sound, but I don't want to steer the dialog by starting with my examples. This is mostly in regards to being sensitive to your partner and respecting your friends relationship(ie being aware enough to see things your friend in a relationship might miss).


I think its possible, but I think only with the right people and only a small percentage of people can handle this. 
I think if its someone you've known for a long time and (this sounds rude) someone you aren't attracted to. Also, if you think your spouse doesn't have a problem with it. 
At the end of the day, your spouse's feelings though trump all these criteria.


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

I am glad I started this, it has helped me see that I was in an unbalanced relationship in regards to this type of thing. I have discussed my feelings with family and they too have felt closer to what I felt was appropriate. Next relationship I will stand my ground. I was constantly told I was wrong. Thank you to everyone.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

effess said:


> I think its possible, but I think only with the right people and only a small percentage of people can handle this.
> I think if its someone you've known for a long time and (this sounds rude) someone you aren't attracted to. Also, if you think your spouse doesn't have a problem with it.
> At the end of the day, your spouse's feelings though trump all these criteria.


Even though I personally see nothing wrong with co-ed friendship it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I was raised with lots of girls. I spent a lot of time as a kid with my aunt where I was one boy with 7 girls.

Years ago my female friend and we joked about just how completely horrible we would be as a boyfriend and girlfriend. She is a self-described b**ch. In fact, if she complains about things at home, I almost always back-up her husband.


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

Lionelhutz said:


> Even though I personally see nothing wrong with co-ed friendship it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I was raised with lots of girls. I spent a lot of time as a kid with my aunt where I was one boy with 7 girls.


Me too. I am in no way against, I just wish people were more aware of how things can look and the possibility of easy EA intentional and not (if there is such a thing).


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Agast84, there is a great book you should read. It covers the dangers of opposite sex friendships and how to maintain proper boundaries with an opposite sex friend. The books is _Not "Just Friends" _ by Shirley Glass.


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> Agast84, there is a great book you should read. It covers the dangers of opposite sex friendships and how to maintain proper boundaries with an opposite sex friend. The books is _Not "Just Friends" _ by Shirley Glass.


This will be to my benefit. I have been very good about this though out my life. Being single is very new to me, so I want to make sure I haven't had a skewed view. Thank you.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Also do His Needs Her Needs together and do the boundary setting.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

This is a great discussion. I'd like everybody's input on something I haven't seen mentioned yet in terms of opposite-sex friends. Is there a difference in how various age groups view this issue? When I told my STBXH that I was very uncomfortable with a friendship he had with a female co-worker (basically violated every boundary people have listed here ), I was told that it bothered me because I was older, and had a more old-fashioned (actually, he used the word 'repressed) upbringing. He said his younger generation knew how to handle it. He never believed that there was such a thing as an EA -- an affair was only about physical sex. However, I could see that these relationships were just like crushes, and that he was skating on thin ice thinking he could keep from falling through. He wrote off my concerns, and even now, doesn't acknowledge the part his EAs played in the death of our relationship.

From what I have seen on TAM, it seems that EAs bother people no matter the age.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> This is a great discussion. I'd like everybody's input on something I haven't seen mentioned yet in terms of opposite-sex friends. Is there a difference in how various age groups view this issue? When I told my STBXH that I was very uncomfortable with a friendship he had with a female co-worker (basically violated every boundary people have listed here ), I was told that it bothered me because I was older, and had a more old-fashioned (actually, he used the word 'repressed) upbringing. He said his younger generation knew how to handle it. He never believed that there was such a thing as an EA -- an affair was only about physical sex. However, I could see that these relationships were just like crushes, and that he was skating on thin ice thinking he could keep from falling through. He wrote off my concerns, and even now, doesn't acknowledge the part his EAs played in the death of our relationship.
> 
> From what I have seen on TAM, it seems that EAs bother people no matter the age.



Yes it bothers you because you have self respect, it has nothing to do with age. I'm of a younger generation (early 20's) and I wouldn't stand for this either. Him denying that an emotional affair doesn't exist is his way of not admitting fault, it was a bunch of bullsh1t. Good for you for getting out of it.


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## Mello_Yellow (Feb 22, 2012)

One major rule for my wife and I: Absolutely NO alcohol when there are friends or coworkers of the opposite sex present...not even "social" drinking, unless we are both present.

That "one little drink" has caused an untold amount of heartache in an untold amount of relationships.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

angelpixie said:


> This is a great discussion. I'd like everybody's input on something I haven't seen mentioned yet in terms of opposite-sex friends. Is there a difference in how various age groups view this issue? When I told my STBXH that I was very uncomfortable with a friendship he had with a female co-worker (basically violated every boundary people have listed here ), I was told that it bothered me because I was older, and had a more old-fashioned (actually, he used the word 'repressed) upbringing. He said his younger generation knew how to handle it. He never believed that there was such a thing as an EA -- an affair was only about physical sex. However, I could see that these relationships were just like crushes, and that he was skating on thin ice thinking he could keep from falling through. He wrote off my concerns, and even now, doesn't acknowledge the part his EAs played in the death of our relationship.
> 
> From what I have seen on TAM, it seems that EAs bother people no matter the age.


I changed my view on this after I allowed my self to become involved in an EA. My charater was too good and I was too smart for this to happen. WRONG. I was very naive. My wife and I later did His Needs Her Needs. So I learned the hard way. In my case then while I am older than many, my position on this is based on experience. 

I suspect many younger folks will have a more liberal approach to this as I did when I was younger. Frankly they are very idealistic and do not yet understand the risks involved.

I would like to believe that folks are learning to have boundaries at an earlier age.


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## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

angelpixie said:


> This is a great discussion. I'd like everybody's input on something I haven't seen mentioned yet in terms of opposite-sex friends. Is there a difference in how various age groups view this issue? When I told my STBXH that I was very uncomfortable with a friendship he had with a female co-worker (basically violated every boundary people have listed here ), I was told that it bothered me because I was older, and had a more old-fashioned (actually, he used the word 'repressed) upbringing. He said his younger generation knew how to handle it. He never believed that there was such a thing as an EA -- an affair was only about physical sex. However, I could see that these relationships were just like crushes, and that he was skating on thin ice thinking he could keep from falling through. He wrote off my concerns, and even now, doesn't acknowledge the part his EAs played in the death of our relationship.
> 
> From what I have seen on TAM, it seems that EAs bother people no matter the age.


Your partner should always respect you, if you are being reasonable. It sounds like you were. My stbx didnt think ea's were real either. 

I can see how a friend I had violated some things, I am ashamed but I ended contact I was a freshman in college(young and learning) my w's happened (started) 4 years later. She was more than old enough to know better.


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