# Leaving Wife Because of Lazy Grown Stepson



## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

I apologize in advance for this lengthy post.

I have been married for three years now. When I met my wife, her son was still in high school and preparing to graduate. When we met, she had told me that her son was going to college and would be out of the house. She had backed that up with saying that if he did not go to college, then he would be going into the military. 

At the time, they lived in a different state, and I would fly to see her for a few weeks at a time. At one point, she wanted me to fly to her area to go to her son’s school to talk to his Guidance Counselor to discuss him going to college. She really wanted for me to do this because I have already went to college and understood the process and what was needed to be done. 

When he graduated, he didn’t go to college. In fact, he never applied successfully to a school. He wasted money applying online to schools that he knew that he wasn’t going to have a chance in getting accepted into. Shortly after he graduated high school, my wife and I married. After the wedding, my step son said that he didn’t want to go to college but instead wanted to join the Armed Forces. So, since I am also a veteran, I was trying to help him though the process. I took a day off of work and went to the recruiter with him, and started to help him with the ASVAB. This went on for months. When he went back to the recruiter to take the test ASVAB, he tanked it so bad, that his score was a 2. If anyone knows anything about this test… that is just beyond horrible. I am not even sure if he got credit for spelling his name correctly! I have zero doubts that he did all of this on purpose and he is/was only trying to buy time, because this too was a farce. 

His mother… my wife, says that we need to give him time to decide what it is that he wants to do. This has been nothing but a ploy on his part to do nothing and live for close to nothing in our home. Now, he does have a job, although it is part time. He pays next to nothing in rent and doesn’t contribute. His only chore is to take out the trash and he has to be told to do even that! My stepson is about to turn 21 years old in two weeks from my composing this.

Every time I discuss this with my wife, she blows up at me. When we confront him together, it always ends up with her taking his side so much that it is just ridiculous. I am a combat veteran with discipline and structure. I also have five kids of my own who are out of the house, working, going to school, and supporting themselves. You know… adulting! I have made it known to my wife before we go married, that I am not interested in raising another child and certainly not an adult. I was under the impression that we’ve had a plan. Well, that was just an illusion.

My wife tells me that she is not ready to give up her son and send him out into the world. This is a complete 180! She had also mentioned to me that he has been there for her, and she doesn’t want to lose that. I should just let him take his time to decide what it is that he wants to do even if he waits until he is 25 or beyond. 

I can’t do it and I won’t do it! This was not the way that it was supposed to be and I am not going to take care of a lazy adult living in my house basically for free. I am done raising kids! I am not an old man, but I became a father for the first time at the age of 23. I am in my very early 50’s. I am exhausted and all I want to do is enjoy time with my wife and grow with her. It is painfully clear to me that is not going to happen. I have told my wife that if this doesn’t change, then I am leaving in the early months of 2021. Nothing has changed. In fact, the both of them have tightened their position. So now, I am looking for a new apartment and moving out. I'm over it all!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sorry to hear that you are going through this. Sounds like you have been VERY clear to HER what the deal was.
Full time job, military, or go to college (have you suggested community college -- usually can get in as long as he completed high school).
If HE isn't willing to do anything and SHE isn't willing to force him into anything, what choice has she left you? 
Sounds like you have been very clear, and she is not willing to do anything to alleviate the issue.
You need to do what you need to do -- so get your plans in order, get with a lawyer, and make sure YOU are ok with things.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Bait and switch. SO not cool.


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## Vorpal (Feb 23, 2020)

Good for you. If he’d had an example of how a real man acts, perhaps he’d have turned out better.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You shouldn't have married a lady with a child still at school. He is only 20 now, you talk as if he is 35 and still at home with no job. You clearly didnt mean your vows and didnt marry her for better and for worse, how sad you are throwing in the towel so easily. You claim you have such discipline but run away at the first sign of trouble. Things dont always work out the way we think or hope or want them to, thats why we work at things and remain faithful and loyal to our spouse through good and bad, or should do if we have integrity and strength and a sense of responsibilty. To be honest you remind me of a toddler throwing a tantrum because they cant get their own way.
Makes me so grateful for my husband who when he married me took on my children(older teen and young adults) as his own. After 16 years he has an amazing relationship with them and they all love him. As he says if you marry someone you also accept the responsibilty of the children of the one you marry.
Oh and BTW its his home as well, just as much as its yours, or should be. I applaud her for not turning against her own child, even if her husband is. How let down and betrayed she must feel. Still she is better off without you. If it wasnt that that made you so easly give upon your marriage and throw away your vows it would have been something else sooner or later that didnt go your way.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Vorpal said:


> Good for you. If he’d had an example of how a real man acts, perhaps he’d have turned out better.


How do you know he didnt?
A real man doesnt run away from trouble, he stays and works on it. A real man doesnt abandon his wife and break his vows of only 3 years just because things arent quite as he wants. A real man doeant shy away from problems but meets them head on. I see none of that here. No staying power, no sense of responsibilty, no guts. Instead of setting this boy a good example, he is setting him a terrible example of how NOT to act.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You got played. She needed someone to help with her son and picked you. 

There have been others here with similar situations so yours, unfortunately, isn‘t unique. A few more months and you’ll be out.

Just don’t make the same mistake again.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I don’t blame you for feeling as if she tricked you.

if she doesn’t expect him to start supporting himself and being independent - it’s best to shorten your suffering phase. If she’s not changing it this won’t work.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

Spicy said:


> Bait and switch. SO not cool.


Gotta agree with @Spicy here. I graduated HS at 18, left for the Marine Corps and college, got my Commission, married at 22, and never looked back. No one coddled me, and coddling is only an enabler for dependence. I can't stand situations like this and what she did is NOT COOL.

I get what you're saying. Something's not right between your wife and her son. I know what it's like to deal with a stepchild who expected us to take care of her. 

All of my bio children are out of the house, motivated, and making their way in life. We almost had a situation with my wife's adult daughter failing and depending on us but thankfully the tides have majorly turned. But the difference is my wife took my side in all of the drama, which changed her daughter's perspective, and now she sees me as a mentor and her "real dad" (long story). If your wife can't recognize what's she's doing to set her son up for failure and doesn't make you her priority as her life partner despite what he's doing, then you have no chance. I'm sorry that you're in this position.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> You shouldn't have married a lady with a child still at school. He is only 20 now, you talk as if he is 35 and still at home with no job. You clearly didnt mean your vows and didnt marry her for better and for worse, how sad you are throwing in the towel so easily. You claim you have such discipline but run away at the first sign of trouble. Things dont always work out the way we think or hope or want them to, thats why we work at things and remain faithful and loyal to our spouse through good and bad, or should do if we have integrity and strength and a sense of responsibilty. To be honest you remind me of a toddler throwing a tantrum because they cant get their own way.
> Makes me so grateful for my husband who when he married me took on my children(older teen and young adults) as his own. After 16 years he has an amazing relationship with them and they all love him. As he says if you marry someone you also accept the responsibilty of the children of the one you marry.
> Oh and BTW its his home as well, just as much as its yours, or should be. I applaud her for not turning against her own child, even if her husband is. How let down and betrayed she must feel. Still she is better off without you. If it wasnt that that made you so easly give upon your marriage and throw away your vows it would have been something else sooner or later that didnt go your way.


Look, @Diana7, you are way off base on this.

His stepson intentionally failed the exam. There's no other explanation. He's a high school graduate. There's no mention that he's mentally retarded/"special needs" or whatever term you want to use. He scored a 2. If you look up the test, the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB), you will see that the scores range from 0-100, with the mean set to 50. (link here = ASVAB). It essentially reflects the population Bell Curve of those that take the test. Do you think he is in the lowest 2% of intelligence, yet still a high school graduate who had ambitions of college? He obviously failed on purpose and has no intentional of gainfully contributing to his own support. It sounds like he also didn't make any meaningful effort to apply to colleges. Sounds like someone who is full of entitlement and deceit.

The OP's wife is not doing her kid any favors by essentially being a facilitator of her son's irresponsibility. In the long run, she is making it worse. She needs to be a parent, not a buddy. The OP is the only one exercising parental responsibility, by holding his stepson accountable. In my opinion, it is the WIFE who is "throwing away her vows" by betraying her husband when her son is clearly in the wrong. It sounds to me like the mother is an "enabler" with a twisted dynamic when it comes to her son.

I think the OP would be better off without HIS WIFE. And the stepson and his mom will actually be WORSE off without the OP, because he was the only one demonstrating any true parental responsibility.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Codependency doesn’t help kids grow up.

it’s a sick way of feeling important - by keeping a child unable to become independent.

we live in a very expensive area. When my kids finished school I told them to buy what they needed with the money THEY earned. Yes, they had to learn to work hard. They learned you work = you make money. You work hard and you make lots of money. Lots of money = you can buy whatever you want.

they work a lot. They are proud of themselves. This “Mom” is doing her son a disservice. She is squishing his ability to learn how to be productive.

sometimes you gotta just say “go get a full time job”! What’s she afraid of? He’s not gonna need her anymore? Maybe.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> You shouldn't have married a lady with a child still at school. He is only 20 now, you talk as if he is 35 and still at home with no job. You clearly didnt mean your vows and didnt marry her for better and for worse, how sad you are throwing in the towel so easily. You claim you have such discipline but run away at the first sign of trouble. Things dont always work out the way we think or hope or want them to, thats why we work at things and remain faithful and loyal to our spouse through good and bad, or should do if we have integrity and strength and a sense of responsibilty. To be honest you remind me of a toddler throwing a tantrum because they cant get their own way.
> Makes me so grateful for my husband who when he married me took on my children(older teen and young adults) as his own. After 16 years he has an amazing relationship with them and they all love him. As he says if you marry someone you also accept the responsibilty of the children of the one you marry.
> Oh and BTW its his home as well, just as much as its yours, or should be. I applaud her for not turning against her own child, even if her husband is. How let down and betrayed she must feel. Still she is better off without you. If it wasnt that that made you so easly give upon your marriage and throw away your vows it would have been something else sooner or later that didnt go your way.


I have to agree with Diana. If he's 20 and going to turn 21 near the end of October, he probably graduated from high school 2 years ago (7 of which had been during a pandemic during which many people like their jobs), right? He's pretty young. Heck I know some people in my professional life, accomplished, hard working, high earning people who ****ed up in their early 20s. Like deliberately flunking out of college and doing a lot of drugs kids of **** ups, etc. If he doesn't know what he wants to do, there is something going on. Maybe he is depressed, maybe he needs counseling. Why not try to help in that way?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I have to agree with Diana. If he's 20 and going to turn 21 near the end of October, he probably graduated from high school 2 years ago (7 of which had been during a pandemic during which many people like their jobs), right? He's pretty young. Heck I know some people in my professional life, accomplished, hard working, high earning people who **ed up in their early 20s. Like deliberately flunking out of college and doing a lot of drugs kids of ** ups, etc. If he doesn't know what he wants to do, there is something going on. Maybe he is depressed, maybe he needs counseling. Why not try to help in that way?


Absolutely, many people who are barely adults dont know what they want to do till years later. At least he has a job, they are not easy to get right now. 

As for those saying its a bait and switch, such nonsense. What this mother wanted and hoped for her child hasnt happened, thats life. Life doesn't always go as planned, yet some of us get on with it, put our big boy trousers on and face it. We dont run away, we dont want to throw our barely adult children out on the streets, we dont have a paddy, we continue to keep the promises we made to our spouse and we act like mature adults. The op is acting in a far more immature way than his 20 year old step son, thats the irony.
Waa waa😭 I cant get my own way so I am running away. 🏃‍♂️😭😣Very mature, not.


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

You say that you are moving out of the home.
Is this a joint home that you purchased together, or your wife's home that she was already living in?
Did you move state to be with her, or did her and her son move state to be with you?

Where is the boy's father? Did he ever have one in his life?

Sounds like your wife is not familiar with the college system, or how to help her son progress in that direction.

He has a job now, which will hopefully lead to a full time one soon. If it did and he contributed more financially, would that be ok with you, or is it the fact that he would be living at home that is the bigger issue?
Do you want him out regardless of what he earns, or how much he helps out physically?

I have to say that as a mother, and as a child that was told I had to earn my own way at 16 (later extended to 17), I'm not in favour of bullying anyone to find a crappy job just to get them out of the home. 

Your insistence has back fired on you. Your need for a regimemented approach to the situation has stopped you from being adaptable to changes, or positive about them improving soon.

I think I would side with my son in this situation, he needs support still, regardless of the whys, or arguments about poor parenting. It's a different world now than when I was his age.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I see both sides...

I guess I would have a very hard time leaving a good woman over this...I get the frustration, but as another poster mentioned, he isn't some neckbeard getting stoned and sponging off mom at 40...In this day and age, 20 is practically a child...I was paying a mortgage and running my own business at 24, but that is completely unheard of today.,...It takes much longer, unfortunately, for these kids(I am about as old as the OP)..The other aspect is what kind of kid is he? Is he generally a good kid, and just hasn't found his way yet? Does he do any drugs or is he getting into any trouble?? know for sure there would be no way in hell someone forcing me into the military...That's nuts...

I also get the point about being tired of parenting and wanting kids to be out on their own...Parenting is exhausting and while rewarding will drain you of a lot of your will, senses, and finances,....There are a lot of women(men as well, but I have seen it more with women), that just have this thing with their sons that aren't motivated and constantly cover their backs and make excuses for them..Then it becomes a problem as they never leave and wind up dependents literally for decades...They get away with it by doing little things for the mom, and the women cover for them as they claim these kids "have their back"...Meanwhile they are doing them no favors by continuing to enable them...

So...as I said, maybe be a little patient if he's a good kid and isn't messing with drugs or getting into trouble...Help him find a path of his own if that is in you...Like stated, while you aren't wrong. if she is really a good woman and you love her, then try to see her side as well...I can't completely fault you if you left, as that was the arrangement beforehand...but I dunno...20 is a little young,,

Best of luck


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He graduated 3 years ago and has only managed to get a part-time job. He's sponging. If he needed to eat, he'd figure out what he wanted to do real quick. Why can't he figure out what he wants to do while working full-time? His mama isn't doing him any favors and he'll be there when he's 30. 

The OP didn't sign up for this so adios.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TheLyonKyng said:


> I apologize in advance for this lengthy post.
> 
> I have been married for three years now. When I met my wife, her son was still in high school and preparing to graduate. When we met, she had told me that her son was going to college and would be out of the house. She had backed that up with saying that if he did not go to college, then he would be going into the military.
> 
> ...


You are making the right choice.

She is not healthy mentally and she is contributing to the worthlessness of her son.

I've seen it many times and have dealt with it a bit in my own marriage.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WOW!

Lot of mommas are dead wrong on this thread.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

No one found what they wanted to do in life by staying home!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Vorpal said:


> Good for you. If he’d had an example of how a real man acts, perhaps he’d have turned out better.


And your point?


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

TheLyonKyng said:


> ...
> I have been married for three years now. When I met my wife, her son was still in high school and preparing to graduate. When we met, she had told me that her son was going to college and would be out of the house. She had backed that up with saying that if he did not go to college, then he would be going into the military...
> ...
> My wife tells me that *she is not ready to give up her son* and send him out into the world. This is a complete 180! She had also mentioned to me that he has been there for her, and she doesn’t want to lose that. I should just let him take his time to decide what it is that he wants to do even if he waits until he is 25 or beyond.


LK... this is a problematic state of mind. I agree with an ultimatum, just not the one you are considering. Your partner needs IC to understand the nature of her unhealthy attachment to her son. As a parent, you are there to nurture, to use discipline to help children transition to self-discipline ... with the ultimate goal of your children having the tools to insert themselves into the world independently. Respectfully, it always takes two to tango in a relationship. Some part of you was aware of the Drama Triangle you were engaging. Be curious about that-


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

TheLyonKyng said:


> She had also mentioned to me that he has been there for her, and she doesn’t want to lose that.


I'm so tired of hearing how mothers NEED their kids. ******** !!! Mothers, and fathers, are to be THERE FOR their kids, while they are kids. The end. The kids are not to be there for them. Their job is to make ADULTS, not children.

Good for you.... walk away, and don't look back. This will NEVER change.......that boy will still be a boy at 50..... you will be propping him up for decades....


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You are making the right choice.
> 
> She is not healthy mentally and she is contributing to the worthlessness of her son.
> 
> I've seen it many times and have dealt with it a bit in my own marriage.


How is she not healthy? Maybe she is one of those mums who actually loves and supports their children.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Seems to me that the problem is not with the stepson, but with the wife. It sounds like she is an enabler and probably always has been, thus the reason for the problems with the stepson. Seems to be a common problem these days. During the greatest generation, 18 year olds were pouring out of LTDs onto the beaches of Normandy in the face of certain death. These days, young people have to be provided with safe spaces so they don't get their feelings hurt. 

I disagree with the idea to cut and run. You took a vow for better or worse. This young man needs a man in his life to help him grow up and that man is you. That may be why God brought you and this family together. You have done well raising your children and you know how to get them ready for the real world. The problem is that the wife needs to get on board and support you. She may need IC in order to see how she is harming her son by coddling him. It's unhealthy and she needs to stop it. You won't make any progress while she is fighting you. The two of you need to be a united front.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Hmmm, look, the OP has every right to do what he is doing. But, his expectations were very unrealistic. He set himself up for failure. Most kids graduating COLLEGE take at least a year to figure themselves out. This kid is just a couple of years out of high school. He's not emotionally mature - most 20 year olds aren't. 

Trust me, I have kids of 23, 23, and 20. Many, many of my cohorts have kids with "less than ideal" post-grad results. I also know many kids are taking gap years because schooling is not normal right now.

And, um, we have a freaking pandemic going on. There are many companies on hiring freezes. 

The OP had expectations that are not realistic. I do understand his position and his frustration, but this is OP's own fault for setting unrealistic expectations for himself. Leave if you want, it's your life. Next time, don't pick a lady with a kid under 23 years old.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jung_admirer said:


> LK... this is a problematic state of mind. I agree with an ultimatum, just not the one you are considering. Your partner needs IC to understand the nature of her unhealthy attachment to her son. As a parent, you are there to nurture, to use discipline to help children transition to self-discipline ... with the ultimate goal of your children having the tools to insert themselves into the world independently. Respectfully, it always takes two to tango in a relationship. Some part of you was aware of the Drama Triangle you were engaging. Be curious about that-


I am amazed at how people here seem to think they know the mother and her child intimately just going by what this one quitter has said. They are criticising the 20 year old but supporting the weak actions of this supposedly mature man in the fact that be is breaking his recently make promises and marriage vows and throwing in the towel after just 3 years.
I can only conclude that for many here marriage means nothing, and I can only conclude that the OP doesnt love his wife or believe in keeping promises and vows made.

I remember when we had been married just a couple of years it looked as if my husband's son age about 19 or 20 at the time may have to come and live with us.Previous to that he had been with his mum and we thought that would continue. Did I sign up for that? No not at all. Did I cry and complain and threaten divorce? No of course not. Did I think about running away? Never entered my head. He is my husband's son, I would have welcomed him. As it was he stayed with his mum, but to end a marriage over that shows that there wasnt a marriage there to start with. Probably just an excuse to leave.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I am amazed at how people here seem to think they know the mother and her child intimately just going by what this one quitter has said. They are criticising the 20 year old but supporting this supossedly mature man in the fact that be is breaking his recently make promises and vows and throwing in the towel after just 3 years.
> I can only conclude that for many here marriage means nothing, and I can only conclude that the OP doesnt love his wife or believe in keeping promises and vows made.
> 
> I remember when we had been married just a couple of years it looked as if my husband's son age about 19 or 20 at the time may have to come and live with us.Previous to that he had been with his mum and we thought that would continue. Did I sign up for that? No not at all. Did I cry and complain and threaten divorce? No of course not. He is my husband's son, I would have welcomed him. As it was he stayed with his mum, but to end a marriage over that shows that there wasnt a marriage there to start with. Probably just an excuse to leave.


He is a military man -very used to rigid schedules and expectations. If he laid out his expectations clearly, that this was a dealbreaker for him, then the wife should have been upfront about "the unknown". 

I find it very weird that a man would marry a woman with a 17 year old son, with the expectation he wouldn't be living with them much. 17?? That's a freaking kid. Nowhere near done cooking yet. He's going to need more time, especially when his dad isn't around. This isn't 1960 anymore. People stay home longer these days. And his own children likely got independent quicker because of his parenting style. I mean, listen to him, wouldn't you want to get out of the house ASAP? But this kid was not raised by OP - he's NOT going to be the same.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Diceplayer said:


> Seems to me that the problem is not with the stepson, but with the wife. It sounds like she is an enabler and probably always has been, thus the reason for the problems with the stepson. Seems to be a common problem these days. During the greatest generation, 18 year olds were pouring out of LTDs onto the beaches of Normandy in the face of certain death. These days, young people have to be provided with safe spaces so they don't get their feelings hurt.
> 
> I disagree with the idea to cut and run. You took a vow for better or worse. This young man needs a man in his life to help him grow up and that man is you. That may be why God brought you and this family together. You have done well raising your children and you know how to get them ready for the real world. The problem is that the wife needs to get on board and support you. She may need IC in order to see how she is harming her son by coddling him. It's unhealthy and she needs to stop it. You won't make any progress while she is fighting you. The two of you need to be a united front.


I agree with the fact that decades ago young people were more independant, but that isnt the case today. Few leave home at 18-21, those at college or uni still basically live at home to all intents and purposes, and in my country at least, there is no way that an 18-20 year old could afford to rent their own place let alone buy it unless they have mega rich parents. 
Yes I to was independant early, married at 19 and bought my own home at 20 and had a baby at 21, yada yada yada, but that doesnt happen now. House prices and rents are crazy, and jobs are very hard to come by especially now with covid and so many being made unemployed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Gabriel said:


> He is a military man -very used to rigid schedules and expectations. If he laid out his expectations clearly, that this was a dealbreaker for him, then the wife should have been upfront about "the unknown".
> 
> I find it very weird that a man would marry a woman with a 17 year old son, with the expectation he wouldn't be living with them much. 17?? That's a freaking kid. Nowhere near done cooking yet. He's going to need more time, especially when his dad isn't around. This isn't 1960 anymore. People stay home longer these days. And his own children likely got independent quicker because of his parenting style. I mean, listen to him, wouldn't you want to get out of the house ASAP? But this kid was not raised by OP - he's NOT going to be the same.


I agree, and he should have been mature enough to see that there was an unknown.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

So sorry to read this. I was/am in almost the exact situation, except for my stepson was living in Florida when we married (he is 25) and only after we have been married for six months, then is when he moved back to Indiana into my house. I know exactly how you feel. I could of wrote your original post except I have 3 adult daughters who are all adulting well. 
In my case I own a building which has an apartment, I moved him into it, charge him 1/3 of what it should be, and supply his internet and tv (free from my office below). He has lived there three months and works a job, enough to get by, long way to go. But it is better as he is not in my house, that would not of worked!
You really only have one move and you must be firm. Yes, you owe him help, but thats it. If she refuses to listen, she is putting him ahead of your relationship....if he were 5 years old I would understand, but he is not. If you dont put your foot down here, 10 years from now he will still be in your basement, apart of every decision and choice you make going forward. She maybe didnt mean to bait and switch you but that is exactly what she has done.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

A parent's job is to help their child grow to be a responsible adult. Allowing the son to shirk his responsibilities is not helping in that regard. I don't want to go so far as to say she did a bait and switch on purpose but none the less, OP made his vows because he thought their life together would look one way and it now looks completely different. I can understand his frustrations.

Perhaps sitting down with a family counselor might be a good option. The counselor might help each member of this family to see things from the other's point of view. 

I don't particularly want my kids living with me forever either. I'm not ready to kick anyone out but if, after college, they need some time at home to build up a savings account, get situated, etc there will be rules and they will be followed, and they can't stay there forever. My BF knows this...his children will be welcome to do the same. But not forever. We are both looking forward to our time together.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> How is she not healthy? Maybe she is one of those mums who actually loves and supports their children.


It would probably take too long to educate you about just how unhealthy many parents, not just mothers but mostly, behave as their children grow into adulthood.

Suffice it to say that coddling pathetic and lazy behavior helps to cripple young adults.

I love my son's and required better behavior from them so that they would develop enough to survive in the world on their own and take care of their wives and children.

I myself met my wife at 20 and started raising a family immediately.

The mother in this post is helping to destroy her son by coddling his weakness and laziness.

She doesn't have her head on straight and shouldn't be married because she can't commit to her marriage first over her adult son.

I've dealt with some of this in my own marriage and helped deal with it in many other instances.

There has been more than one divorce over a mother who put her adult children over her marriage vows.

Men aren't exempt here but I have seen mostly women doing this.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> He is a military man -very used to rigid schedules and expectations. If he laid out his expectations clearly, that this was a dealbreaker for him, then the wife should have been upfront about "the unknown".
> 
> I find it very weird that a man would marry a woman with a 17 year old son, with the expectation he wouldn't be living with them much. 17?? That's a freaking kid. Nowhere near done cooking yet. He's going to need more time, especially when his dad isn't around. This isn't 1960 anymore. People stay home longer these days. And his own children likely got independent quicker because of his parenting style. I mean, listen to him, wouldn't you want to get out of the house ASAP? But this kid was not raised by OP - he's NOT going to be the same.


Yeah. He is almost 21 and going nowhere.

Young adults might be lazier and weaker than a couple decades ago but it isn't biological.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> WOW!
> 
> Lot of mommas are dead wrong on this thread.


Just spoken to my husband about this and he was appalled at the OP's attitude and actions. He said you have to stick with things and get on with it. Not be weak and run away. He said he would definately stay and help the young man over the coming months and years find his way in life. Also keep the vows made to his wife. Marriage is so important, not something to be thrown away at the first hardship. 
My husband may not have been in the military, but he has far far more integrity, strength and of a sense of responsibility than this man will ever have.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> It would probably take too long to educate you about just how unhealthy many parents, not just mothers but mostly, behave as their children grow into adulthood.
> 
> Suffice it to say that coddling pathetic and lazy behavior helps to cripple young adults.
> 
> ...


I appreciate that there are a few mums and dads who struggle to let their children go, but I dont see that at all here. Now if the young man was 35 and still living with mum, yes I would agree with you. He is barely out of high school. A good man would not expect his wife to do.... what exactly, throw him out? He would help and guide and support them both. He would keep his promises and vows made. He would man up.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Just spoken to my husband about this and he was appalled at the OP's attitude and actions. He said you have to stick with things and get on with it. Not be weak and run away. He said he would definately stay and help the young man over the coming months and years find his way in life. Also keep the vows made to his wife. Marriage is so important, not something to be thrown away at the first hardship.
> My husband may not have been in the military, but he has far far more integrity, strength and of a sense of responsibility than this man will ever have.


Putting up with her nonsense and her son's is not strong at all.

Quite the opposite actually.

I wasn't in the military either and that has nothing to do with coddling bad behavior.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Just spoken to my husband about this and he was appalled at the OP's attitude and actions. He said you have to stick with things and get on with it. Not be weak and run away. He said he would definately stay and help the young man over the coming months and years find his way in life. Also keep the vows made to his wife. Marriage is so important, not something to be thrown away at the first hardship.
> My husband may not have been in the military, but he has far far more integrity, strength and of a sense of responsibility than this man will ever have.


Also, she took vows to her husband, not her adult son.

She isn't honoring them.

If my wife defied me and took a similar position with one of our adult sons, she would be the ex Mrs Conan quickly.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I appreciate that there are a few mums and dads who struggle to let their children go, but I dont see that at all here. Now if the young man was 35 and still living with mum, yes I would agree with you. He is barely out of high school. A good man would not expect his wife to do.... what exactly, throw him out? He would help and guide and support them both. He would keep his promises and vows made. He would man up.


I think the bigger problem is, and what I inferred from reading, it sounds like the son isn't doing anything.

Doesn't sound like he is working, going to college, or doing anything. And trying to find ways to just drag out being able to do nothing. 
If he wants to go to college, well, every single major out there requires you to have taken certain classes, like communication arts, math, history, some science. If he was wanting to figure out what he wanted to do, he could at least be going to community college to get those classes out of the way, and maybe try several different classes to figure out what he likes.
He could go to trade-school and learn a trade! Some of those trades pay very well because too many people don't want to do them, or there is a stigma attached to them. But diesel mechanics, welders, those guys can make good money. And it doesn't take 4 years to get a degree.
Or he could be working. Maybe full-time as a driver for Amazon or UPS, they pray well (I think?) or part-time doing whatever while going to said community college.

Encouraging your child is expected from parents. Coddling them so they become lazy and do nothing after high school is not a good plan.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Also, she took vows to her husband, not her adult son.
> 
> She isn't honoring them.
> 
> If my wife defied me and took a similar position with one of our adult sons, she would be the ex Mrs Conan quickly.


When you marry the wife/husband, that includes the intricacies of their family as well. IF you dont like it then dont get married.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Broken at 20 said:


> I think the bigger problem is, and what I inferred from reading, it sounds like the son isn't doing anything.
> 
> Doesn't sound like he is working, going to college, or doing anything. And trying to find ways to just drag out being able to do nothing.
> If he wants to go to college, well, every single major out there requires you to have taken certain classes, like communication arts, math, history, some science. If he was wanting to figure out what he wanted to do, he could at least be going to community college to get those classes out of the way, and maybe try several different classes to figure out what he likes.
> ...


He has a job, but I am sure you realise what a mess the job market is in right now. People being laid off left right and centre. Vast unemployment.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Also, she took vows to her husband, not her adult son.
> 
> She isn't honoring them.
> 
> If my wife defied me and took a similar position with one of our adult sons, she would be the ex Mrs Conan quickly.


We both support each other and care for each others children and grandchildren. We both understand that family is important. Also neither of us believes in divorce unless its for something really serious such as adultery. We also believe in working through the more difficult times and not running away. Being a good mum isnt being dishonoring. Throwing out a young man who is barely out of school is cruelty.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> He has a job, but I am sure you realise what a mess the job market is in right now. People being laid off left right and centre. Vast unemployment.


My mistake. Does work, part time. But nothing else. And yes, the job market is very hard right now, and unless you have the right skills, it's very difficult to get hired. 

He could still be going to community college or doing more than he currently is. I don't know of anyone from my high school that worked a part-time job until they were 21 and went off to become successful. Or at the very least, make something of themselves.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I understand the feelings of NOT abandoning the kids.
I'm not 100% that is what is going on here.
This line:"My wife tells me that she is not ready to give up her son and send him out into the world. "
THIS is to me the real problem. She WANTS to enable him to keep him around so of COURSE she is not agreeing with OP. 
Yes 20 is still "young" these days. I agree that you should help your kids, but I think the attitude SHE has is NOT helping and rather stifles his personal development.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> We both support each other and care for each others children and grandchildren. We both understand that family is important. Also neither of us believes in divorce unless its for something really serious such as adultery. We also believe in working through the more difficult times and not running away. Being a good mum isnt being dishonoring. Throwing out a young man who is barely out of school is cruelty.


If my kids were still at home at age 20 they'd either have to be in school (which my 20yo is) or have a full time job and pay some rent and expenses to me to show they are learning the ways of living on their own. It seems to me OP wants this to be the case with his stepson as well. This is teaching your child how to be an adult, not letting him live at home with zero responsiblities at age 20.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> I understand the feelings of NOT abandoning the kids.
> I'm not 100% that is what is going on here.
> This line:"My wife tells me that she is not ready to give up her son and send him out into the world. "
> THIS is to me the real problem. She WANTS to enable him to keep him around so of COURSE she is not agreeing with OP.
> Yes 20 is still "young" these days. I agree that you should help your kids, but I think the attitude SHE has is NOT helping and rather stifles his personal development.


What exactly does send him out into the world mean? I guess it means to him that the boy has to leave. Few young adults live away from home at 20. If they are at college that is still basically at home and most come back after college and stay till they can afford to rent on their own.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> If my kids were still at home at age 20 they'd either have to be in school (which my 20yo is) or have a full time job and pay some rent and expenses to me to show they are learning the ways of living on their own. It seems to me OP wants this to be the case with his stepson as well. This is teaching your child how to be an adult, not letting him live at home with zero responsiblities at age 20.


He said that he wants him 'sent out into the world', to me that says the OP wants him to have to leave his own home.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> He said that he wants him 'sent out into the world', to me that says the OP wants him to have to leave his own home.


I guess I read it as because he is not at all responsible he should be sent out to learn some responsibility, ie. go back to school, join the military, or at the very least get a full time job and contribute to the household expenses. OP can clear it up for us if he feels the desire.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TheLyonKyng said:


> I apologize in advance for this lengthy post.
> 
> I have been married for three years now. When I met my wife, her son was still in high school and preparing to graduate. When we met, she had told me that her son was going to college and would be out of the house. She had backed that up with saying that if he did not go to college, then he would be going into the military.
> 
> ...


Well if you're done your done. But if your not I suggest you to try a different tact. I suggest that you tell your wife, it's fine if her son doesn't know at 21 what he career will be but assuming he is a healthy adult he still needs to get a full time job and start to contribute to expenses. You are not doing that to be mean or be a hard ass but to prepare him for life. He needs to think about his future. Ask her what would happen to her if she died? What she is doing is not helping him but actually the opposite. Life is hard and it requires work and this is kind of life 101. This is the proverbial push the bird out the nest so they can learn to fly situation.

I mean I can't remember a time in life that I wasn't working, and when I didn't have a career I was working full time. That helped me when I did end up getting a career because it helped me learn discipline and how to be a good employee.

So here is the thing, it may be how you are trying to sell it. In this case she is acting like a Mom, and coddling him. She thinks she is protect him but she is actually doing the opposite because she is not preparing him for real life. She is preventing his growth. You need to show her that she is actually hurting him by enabling his bad behavior, if you can. Now maybe that has been your argument. But if your argument is "In my day we did this" or "When I was his age I did this." That just isn't going to work. You need to use her motivation to protect her to motivate her. Show her she is doing the opposite. 

"How does it help him if he stays in his room all day." "What happens if we are not here to pay for the roof over his head." "Just because he doesn't have a career yet doesn't mean he can't have a job." "He needs to be using this time to learn about himself and what working full time is like, not when he is 5 years older, competing with people younger then him, and possibly without us as a safety net." "At the end of the day that is all we can and should be, a safety net."

Where is his real father in all this?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Well if you're done your done. But if your not I suggest you to try a different tact. I suggest that you tell your wife, it's fine if her son doesn't know at 21 what he career will be but assuming he is a healthy adult he still needs to get a full time job and start to contribute to expenses. You are not doing that to be mean or be a hard ass but to prepare him for life. He needs to think about his future. Ask her what would happen to her if she died? What she is doing is not helping him but actually the opposite. Life is hard and it requires work and this is kind of life 101. This is the proverbial push the bird out the nest so they can learn to fly situation.
> 
> I mean I can't remember a time in life that I wasn't working, and when I didn't have a career I was working full time. That helped me when I did end up getting a career because it helped me learn discipline and how to be a good employee.
> 
> ...


I like this approach. Make it about preparedness. What happens if we die? Could he survive? Let's make sure he can, and arm him with the tools he needs so he can practice being on his own.

Totally wondering where the biological dad is, too. Is he dead?

The 20 year old can work full time in a grocery store, and no, that won't be enough to move out, but he'd be out of the house more, and you can charge him some rent.

In reality though, this is EXTREMELY common and only more so now with the pandemic. So it should not be this huge surprise that this kid isn't fully functioning at 20 years old. He can work and take classes at community college to work towards a better life.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Well, this post was from 2 years ago, he wasn't married then and was frustrated in a non-sexual relationship. 

Something doesn't add up here. 2 years ago, complaining about your sexless relationship, but now suddenly married for 3 years??









A-Sexual Dating Relationship


Met a beautiful woman both in spirit and in body. We've both had horrible previous marriages, and at least from where I stand, looking forward to moving on from the past and starting new. We would spend time together walking the local parks, going to Starbucks, the beach, and the movies. She...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I'll never understand this mentality that kids need to "figure out what they want to be" maybe he needs to figure out how to not be homeless and hungry. If you stay you will be paying for this adult child from now on. She will give him money and pay his bills from now on, behind your back if she has to. No idea where you're at but my company can't hire enough. Drive down main Street and its "help wanted" signs as far as the eye can see.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Well, this post was from 2 years ago, he wasn't married then and was frustrated in a non-sexual relationship.
> 
> Something doesn't add up here. 2 years ago, complaining about your sexless relationship, but now suddenly married for 3 years??
> 
> ...


He never returned to that thread.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> What exactly does send him out into the world mean? I guess it means to him that the boy has to leave. Few young adults live away from home at 20. If they are at college that is still basically at home and most come back after college and stay till they can afford to rent on their own.


So the poster said HIS WIFE said she doesn't want to send him out into the world -- I don't think the OP said that himself.

Also, I don't think the OP just wants to up and kick him out -- he wants him to "up" and take some responsibility for his life. Sounds like he intentionally tanked the test for the armed forces, and has only applied himself enough to get a part-time job.
I bet if the kid got a full time job, came to them with some $$ for rent and showed he was responsible, this wouldn't be an issue.

The REAL issue is that the H and W are NOT on the same page and the W undermines anything the H wants to get across to the son.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> He never returned to that thread.


This thread has me thinking about my kids. I really thought that at this point in my life I wouldn't have to sleep with a fan on. I thought that there would be a bedroom free for me to move into. The Irish twins (28) are still using those rooms. One has a full time job and a car. The other has a Bachelor's degree and no drivers licence. 
If OP comes back we can talk about them.


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## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

My wife tells me that she is not ready to give up her son and send him out into the world. This is a complete 180! She had also mentioned to me that he has been there for her, and she doesn’t want to lose that. I should just let him take his time to decide what it is that he wants to do even if he waits until he is 25 or beyond. 

This is what the poster stated. He got married after the kid graduated. There is no chance I would marry someone that let their kid do this. She basically lied to him before marriage and now wants the kid to wait until he is 25 is it's ok. Not ok. Why would it be ok? Do you think he would of married her if he knew this. I'd be gone too because our life together is gonna be just awful due to this issue and it's gonna be in your face everyday. 

My daughter went to college at 18 and has never moved back home. 21 is an adult and should be treated as such.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> I'll never understand this mentality that kids need to "figure out what they want to be"


Neither will I. I figured out what both my careers were going to be by age 12. I knew exactly what I wanted to do, my father gave me very good and wise advice on how to "get there". I started both of them, part-time, after-school, summertime beginning at age 15. My mother had to drive me to work. I went to full-time work within 3 or 4 months after high-school graduation.

So. no..... I don't "get it"....not at all....I have no idea where this mentality comes from....but, I don't respect it one damned bit....



gold5932 said:


> She basically lied to him before marriage


That's how I see it, and if OP stays in this marriage, he will be footing the bills for the freeloader forever.... "mommy" is never going to "give up"
her son.....she had to lie....because he would have kicked her to the curb if she didn't.....


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## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

For those who think that I am a "quitter" and that I cannot follow through on vows, let me ask this simple question. How long does one person need to repeat something before you can see that nothing is going to change? Marriage is not 50/50, marriage is 100/100. I don't half-step anything! I am also not going to carry the both of them on my back. 

I refuse to be a stranger in my own home will not tolerate the amount of disrespect that I have been given. Life is too short to be miserable everyday because someone else decides to force and manipulate to get what they want. Marriage is about compromise, and when the other side refuses to do so, then everyone has to ask themselves the question that I have started this post off with, or shut their mouths and just live in an unhealthy relationship. If you stand for nothing, then you will fall for anything.

I wouldn't care if my step son needed time to decide on his course of action, but he has zero plan whatsoever. He doesn't even want to think about it, and that is unacceptable in my home and life. It may be okay for you who do not see the long term damage that this brings, but that is not okay for me. If this year has taught me anything, it is that life is too short to deal with crap that is just not necessary. 

If the two cannot work together... and if one wants to make it all about them and not take into consideration the other party... you know, the person who they had vowed to love, cherish, and protect, then what are you doing? Words are words, but they also demand action. If I am going to do it all on my own, then I might as well be on my own. I am not going to make anyone do what they do not want to do. And if my spouse doesn't want to step up to her son and defend our marriage, and work with me... then what is there left for me to do? I am surely not going to sit back and be on the same level as the family pet.

Respect goes a very long way, and I have respected their relationship, but this is something different. I am also a parent and I have close relationships with my kids. But, my kids had to learn how to "adult" without "mommy and daddy" wiping their adult asses. I am their for them if they need me, but they also have to learn to walk and find the answers on their own.


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## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> You shouldn't have married a lady with a child still at school. He is only 20 now, you talk as if he is 35 and still at home with no job. You clearly didnt mean your vows and didnt marry her for better and for worse, how sad you are throwing in the towel so easily. You claim you have such discipline but run away at the first sign of trouble. Things dont always work out the way we think or hope or want them to, thats why we work at things and remain faithful and loyal to our spouse through good and bad, or should do if we have integrity and strength and a sense of responsibilty. To be honest you remind me of a toddler throwing a tantrum because they cant get their own way.
> Makes me so grateful for my husband who when he married me took on my children(older teen and young adults) as his own. After 16 years he has an amazing relationship with them and they all love him. As he says if you marry someone you also accept the responsibilty of the children of the one you marry.
> Oh and BTW its his home as well, just as much as its yours, or should be. I applaud her for not turning against her own child, even if her husband is. How let down and betrayed she must feel. Still she is better off without you. If it wasnt that that made you so easly give upon your marriage and throw away your vows it would have been something else sooner or later that didnt go your way.


This type of thinking is what is wrong with so many families today. You seem to think that kids or young adults have a say or a voice in what an adult does or has to do. I am not here to debate this. This is my life and I was sharing something deep and personal. You are entitled to your opinion, but at the end of the day... that is all that it is.

As for me being a military person, I couldn't be any more proud to have given Honorable service in the United States Navy. I have fought in combat in an active theater of operations and I am a decorated Sailor. None of my journey was easy. I came from a broken home and I've had to make something of myself or live and die on the streets. What I am asking is a drop in the bucket as to what I have provided to this young man. I have offered my guidance as a man and a step father. Something that has not been offered to him in the past. Instead, he crapped on my offer and in return provided a great deal of disrespect to me, my service, and my effort to assist him.

Sometimes, there are just people who are not grateful, and it is not always about maturity. It is also about what was taught and how he had received his training to be a young man... and not a little child. We do not have the option to not grow up. 

I understand that there is a global pandemic and I am sympathetic to that and I understand. I am dealing with the same hardships as anyone else, but that doesn't mean that I should sit around with my head down and "beg" for respect. I am a grown man in my early 50's... I refuse to let a 21 year old to command and disrespect me. Maybe that is okay for you... but not for this guy!

I have a covenant with his mother, not him. He was part of the deal and I took on that responsibility. But, that doesn't make him exempt from planning his future and taking steps to being responsible and accountable. No one gets a free ride, and if you are teaching your kids that this is the way, then you are harming them more than you will know!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> This thread has me thinking about my kids. I really thought that at this point in my life I wouldn't have to sleep with a fan on. I thought that there would be a bedroom free for me to move into. The Irish twins (28) are still using those rooms. One has a full time job and a car. The other has a Bachelor's degree and no drivers licence.
> If OP comes back we can talk about them.


It's your fault they are still there.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> It's your fault they are still there.


I'm making the mistakes Lyon Kyng won't and Dianna advocates. And I have my reasons for doing it. 
My kids: a run down.
D1 age 31 lives with a friend in a cooperative relationship to raise one child. Out of work for over a year. Child is not hers child is four. 
#1 put us through the wringer. Co-dependent in High school. Settled with the wrong guy. finally got their stuff together for a few years then returned to my house with the worlds dumbest beagle. After that disaster ended she got un dependent and learned to stand on her own feet. I think to some extent her experience has led to me being softer on the next 2.
D2 worked in HS and went to university. Only needed bailing out a few times. Failed to find good employment post degree but is following her dream with a small community arts org that can't pay her for what they need. That wraps up next Spring. She is at home because it is cheaper than bailing her out.
D3 Tech school 3 times between jobs of various terms. She makes enough money but doesn't save much. I'm happier with her home because even though she is 28 she has the emotional maturity of a 18 year old. No signs of committing to a long term romantic relationship. She tried twice but doesn't "feel" it. She is closer to launch than D2.
S4 married and an electrician apprentice. Renting half a home with his wife. 22 years old. 
So I can't very well say kick that kid out, because I haven't. (almost kicked D1 out) did kick the beagle out. But every one of my kids has gone forth to do something. They had dreams and to some extent have achieved them. 
I think that Lyon would feel a lot better if Jr. was doing this kind of thing. But he is in limbo. And there is an undercurrent of disrespect. A you can't make me attitude. Let's compare Jr. Lyon to S4.
S4 worked every summer of Highschool away from home. He was already able to live on his own. Every year brought new responsibility and new challenge. Even though he suffered depression the whole time. So why is he launched? Why isn't Jr.? it's because he didn't hide from responsibility he sought it out. Jr. pulled a stunt with that ASVAB. There is something going seriously wrong there.


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## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Well if you're done your done. But if your not I suggest you to try a different tact. I suggest that you tell your wife, it's fine if her son doesn't know at 21 what he career will be but assuming he is a healthy adult he still needs to get a full time job and start to contribute to expenses. You are not doing that to be mean or be a hard ass but to prepare him for life. He needs to think about his future. Ask her what would happen to her if she died? What she is doing is not helping him but actually the opposite. Life is hard and it requires work and this is kind of life 101. This is the proverbial push the bird out the nest so they can learn to fly situation.
> 
> I mean I can't remember a time in life that I wasn't working, and when I didn't have a career I was working full time. That helped me when I did end up getting a career because it helped me learn discipline and how to be a good employee.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your words and view point. 

I have tried taking many different approaches to this situation. What needs to be understood is this... no matter how many times a person can say, explain, or sound concerns about a difficult or dangerous topic, the person on the other end has to want to listen to what is actually being said. Yes... LISTEN and not just HEAR. 

The problem is, she doesn't want to hear anything negative about her cub. From me, it is coming from a place of love and concern, because a lazy and unskilled man will be eaten alive in this world. I cannot say enough as to how many nights I have spent sleeping on the couch over this. While he sleeps soundly in his queen sized and comfortable bed. There has not been a time when we have stood together and confronted him about this. Instead, she ends up defending his immaturity and foolishness. I would have a better conversation talking to the wall. And the more I talk about it, the worse it gets. It is exhausting.

As long as she refuses to confront him and stand her ground... he feels protected. And that gives him the feeling that he can do what he wants and as he pleases. He doesn't feel the need to be respectful as long as she is standing in front of him.

As for his dad... he lives in another country. And he doesn't have much to do with his son.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TheLyonKyng said:


> Thank you for your words and view point.
> 
> I have tried taking many different approaches to this situation. What needs to be understood is this... no matter how many times a person can say, explain, or sound concerns about a difficult or dangerous topic, the person on the other end has to want to listen to what is actually being said. Yes... LISTEN and not just HEAR.
> 
> ...


Maybe her ex is the smart one? LoL!😉

Not trying to make light of your situation, just trying lighten the mood.

You are on the right path and you are far more patient than I would be given similar circumstances.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

From what I have seen, Step Fathers have an uphill battle from the start (more so than step mothers). You are their partner, but not the biological father of her child.

On a certain level that is something which seems to be very difficult to overcome.

She may have agreed to your wishes prior to marriage, but when push comes to shove she will revert to her biology (maternal instinct) and support her child.

Having an understanding of this, and a deep open discussion about this prior to marriage may have helped highlight to her what possible courses of action she may take under duress. 

The old 'blood is thicker than water' argument.


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## BeetleJuice53 (Dec 29, 2018)

I went through something similar with my oldest son (#1)
A little history first, My wife couldn't have children and they are adopted and have known that since they were old enough to understand. 

#1 was never motivated for anything except hanging out, partying and video games with his friends. #2 left the house at 18 and was on his own ever since.
I put both of them through trade school #1 for electronics and #2 for auto mechanics. 

I have been self employed since 26 years old and worked my ass off to build up a business that right now is into seven figures yearly. #1 worked for me 10 years or so and it was not a good situation as he did just the minimum to get through the day. The real problem was that he was a genius WHEN HE WANTED TO BE and I (foolishly) thought that he just needed time to come into his own. 

Over the course of his time with me I fired him FOUR times. He never could put it together that you make money to get the things you want and live the life you want.
He just didn't require much to live his life.

Well, four years ago he gets a girl pregnant when he was back where he grew up (we live in a neighboring state) and moves back with and marries her. She has a great job with good insurance and #1 stepped up to the plate and did most of the work raising my granddaughter and working part time.

Last year he went to work for a company where he could use the trade he learned with me and He is now running the department. 

I never thought I would see the day that that would happen and I believe that it wouldn't have if he was still working for me. He didn't seem want to put in the effort if it meant he had to "conform" to my direction if that makes any sense.

#2 has been with me since and is pretty much running the business as I slide off into the sunset. He wants to do it and sees the potential to bring it to the next level.

My point to all of this is you can't make anybody do anything THEY have to want it. I have hired and fired plenty of people over my career what I look for is attitude, all the rest can be taught.

LK your stepson just does not care enough at this point to exert himself when the "status quo" is good enough right now to get him past today, tomorrow, next week etc. He is not thinking about when it ends because in his mind it won't. He is not trainable with his present mindset because he doesn't want to be.

I wish you the best with your decision.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TheLyonKyng said:


> Thank you for your words and view point.
> 
> I have tried taking many different approaches to this situation. What needs to be understood is this... no matter how many times a person can say, explain, or sound concerns about a difficult or dangerous topic, the person on the other end has to want to listen to what is actually being said. Yes... LISTEN and not just HEAR.
> 
> ...


I suggest you write it out and give her a letter. Leave out the "defending his immaturity and foolishness" stuff. Your not wrong, but he is 21 lots and lots of young men today are immature and foolish. You might not have been but maybe you were in other ways right? You didn't have kids like this, probably because of the way you parented which is great, but she does. She is going to be defensive about her son. It just is. If it's too much to take, makes sense. If you really do want to help then you have to be dispassionate.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BeetleJuice53 said:


> I went through something similar with my oldest son (#1)
> A little history first, My wife couldn't have children and they are adopted and have known that since they were old enough to understand.
> 
> #1 was never motivated for anything except hanging out, partying and video games with his friends. #2 left the house at 18 and was on his own ever since.
> ...


Fear is a good motivator. Like your first son, OP's son knows he has a safety net so no need to be afraid.


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## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

BeetleJuice53 said:


> I went through something similar with my oldest son (#1)
> A little history first, My wife couldn't have children and they are adopted and have known that since they were old enough to understand.
> 
> #1 was never motivated for anything except hanging out, partying and video games with his friends. #2 left the house at 18 and was on his own ever since.
> ...


Thank you so much for sharing your experience! 

I have always said that my step son as it too good. I have always said that sometimes, you just need to "sour the milk". But, even when I try to do that, it is met with firm and swift opposition. 

Children and young adults need to be challenged. If they are not challenged, then how do they gain the experience to either use or develop the tools that they need to go through life. When I try to speak to him, man to man... he sits there looking around the room, checking his phone and watch. I tell him to put his phone away and I ask him questions to provoke some type of thought. He actually told me once that he has heard all of this before.

Since he contributes very, very little to the house, he spends a lot on Amazon and online shopping. I do not provide him with the "glorious life"... he purchases all of his items on his own. But, this is not what a responsible adult does. Then again, he is not a responsible adult. 

Me preparing to move out is to create some pressure to get him to step up. His mother will not challenge him or give him an ultimatum. So, without my financial assistance... I will see what happens next. In the meantime, I will have some quiet and space. If things change for the better, and my wife is ready to do this as a team, then we move forward. If not, then I go on with my life without her. Sometimes, the answers really are that simple.

Congrats on your sons coming to an understanding... but that has happened because they were challenged, and it worked out for the best.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Just leave. Mothers always choose their kids, even grown moochers, over anyone else. She's said herself she's not ready for him to leave. It's not unusual for stepparents to be left out of the decisions. I think she led you down the rosy path acting like she wanted you involved, but then push comes to shove, the son is in control. It's not good for you two to be fighting, especially over him. She might have just wanted you there in case he did want to go to college, you'd help foot the bill or something. 

It's also not unusual with this generation for kids to stay at home forever. I agree kids should be out by 21 away at school or working two jobs, but starting to support themselves. Nowadays, a lot stay home and do online school, and then you never get them out of the house for years. But these days, a lot of them are just staying with their parents and there are very few who can boot them out. Whether he knows what he wants to do is irrelevant. The only way to find what you want to do is start working doing something and see where it leads and learn your strong points, the weak points of things you can't tolerate, etc., and meet more people to broaden your knowledge of the job market. 

A friend of mine still has a grown son living in his videogames since covid, but before covid, he finally got a job at the grocery store. He's a shy self-conscious kid but he found he could do that job and people were friendly to him and he came out of his shell a little working the register and was doing just fine. Until then, he refused to go to college (always had crap grades and always conned his mother about why -- I caught him at it). But after working at the grocery store, he decided he wanted to go to junior college, but then covid came. Kids just have to be made to take that first step if they're not self-motivated. It gets the ball rolling and it makes them start figuring out what they do and don't want to do. 

But you know all this. Sorry you're in this mess. I don't see a way out except to leave because it could last for years. Just be sure it's not covid holding him back right now, though.


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## BeetleJuice53 (Dec 29, 2018)

TheLyonKyng said:


> Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
> 
> I have always said that my step son as it too good. I have always said that sometimes, you just need to "sour the milk". But, even when I try to do that, it is met with firm and swift opposition.
> 
> ...


Luckily I didn't have to fight my wife when I had to make a decision and she backed me up. I could see how it would have been the end of our marriage if she fought me on this.
My son would give me the same blank stare when I tried to explain how the "real world" works. His eyes light up now when he tells me about a problem he solved and I'll say gee, where the hell did you learn that ?

You can't teach ambition and motivation, that has to come from within. 
One of my fathers favorite sayings was "hunger is a great motivator"


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

My biggest fear is to have an unmotivated child living at home. 

My maternal grandmother provided for her adult sons while she was alive. My uncles are in their fifties and sixties and they are all broke and poor. They have no skills. They were never shown how to live and survive in this world on their own. 

My 23 year old niece just got her BSN this past summer and she's already working full time at the local hospital but she's living at home while she pays for her school loans. She doesn't come from money. My in laws helped her a little bit but she got scholarships and financial aid as well. Her sister just started college, she got scholarships thanks to hard work during high school. She wants to be an nurse anesthetist. I see them having a great foundation and having the tools to become successful on their own. Their mom is a single mom, very strict but very involved.

I wouldn't mind my kid living at home if the kid is working or studying full time. They have to do something. They have to have a plan, and living at home will be temporary. 

My son is 12 and he's already complaining we are too strict at home. He's actually saying he can't wait to turn 14 so he can find a job. I hope he keeps the motivation going because I need him to become independent.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> As for those saying its a bait and switch, such nonsense. What this mother wanted and hoped for her child hasnt happened, thats life.


I think it's pretty clear from the OP's postings that the mother is helping MAKE it not happen.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> He has a job, but I am sure you realise what a mess the job market is in right now. People being laid off left right and centre. Vast unemployment.


 You seem to be ignoring the fact that he INTENTIONALLY failed the military aptitude test. When you realize that, it makes it most likely that he is not trying hard to find a decent job. The OP didn't post what his part-time job is, but I'm willing to bet it's purposefully a minimal hour, low expectation job just so he can get a little pocket money to blow on toys, video games or weed which he sponges off his codependent mother.

He is not a victim of circumstance or of forces beyond his control. He deliberately created his situation.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

This kid has a queen sized bed, and spends what's left on Amazon? I mean...at least that's better than signing up for a bunch of onlyfans girls... 

Does your son know how to cook? You could up the rent he pays, and require him to either cook a meal once a week, or you and your wife will go out and he'll have to figure it out. 
And tell him to find another part-time job or get ready for community college. 

Or you could take the Tony Soprano approach. 
Start with the cell phone, by dropping that and forcing him to pay for it. 
Then I'd take the internet. You can change the passwords, and require everyone in the house to use ethernet cable, so even if they access it, they need a password. 
Then take away the car (assuming you pay the insurance, and it's legally yours). And the gas in it. (Or smash the windshield with a football helmet. He won't be able to drive it then) 
Then take away his mom's cooking. 

Because if you've gotten that far and she hasn't balked yet, taking away her cooking won't be that big of a step. 

And according to Tony, because he's over 18, he can't call child protective services!
Man...I miss good TV


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Broken at 20 said:


> This kid has a queen sized bed, and spends what's left on Amazon? I mean...at least that's better than signing up for a bunch of onlyfans girls...
> 
> Does your son know how to cook? You could up the rent he pays, and require him to either cook a meal once a week, or you and your wife will go out and he'll have to figure it out.
> And tell him to find another part-time job or get ready for community college.
> ...


yeah, but I think your kind of plan won't go far because the co-dependent mommy will be undermining the OP at every turn.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

TheLyonKyng said:


> I couldn't be any more proud to have given Honorable service in the United States Navy


My hat's off to you, and thank you for your service to our country.



pastasauce79 said:


> He's actually saying he can't wait to turn 14 so he can find a job.


Good for him !!!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> When you marry the wife/husband, that includes the intricacies of their family as well. IF you dont like it then dont get married.


He would not have if she had not given a false narrative.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TheLyonKyng said:


> This type of thinking is what is wrong with so many families today. You seem to think that kids or young adults have a say or a voice in what an adult does or has to do. I am not here to debate this. This is my life and I was sharing something deep and personal. You are entitled to your opinion, but at the end of the day... that is all that it is.
> 
> As for me being a military person, I couldn't be any more proud to have given Honorable service in the United States Navy. I have fought in combat in an active theater of operations and I am a decorated Sailor. None of my journey was easy. I came from a broken home and I've had to make something of myself or live and die on the streets. What I am asking is a drop in the bucket as to what I have provided to this young man. I have offered my guidance as a man and a step father. Something that has not been offered to him in the past. Instead, he crapped on my offer and in return provided a great deal of disrespect to me, my service, and my effort to assist him.
> 
> ...


There is a full time job wether it is Army, Navy,AF or Marines. He intentionally tanked his test. He has to know the answers to tank it so bad. Does he have a video game console, I hate those stupid video games they play. Why in hell does an adult playing video games. Turns alot of kids into worthless adults.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I can only say times have changed. All us boys growing up couldn't wait to be old enough to work, so we could gain some FREEDOM!!.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I can only say times have changed. All us boys growing up couldn't wait to be old enough to work, so we could gain some FREEDOM!!.


Ah, but therein lays the point of difference. It used to be the case that you EARNT your freedom with hard work/discipline.

Today many young folk have been brainwashed by having everything instantly accessible/available, without having to invest the time, effort, and in turn develop an appreciation for what they are seeking.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I can only say times have changed. All us boys growing up couldn't wait to be old enough to work, so we could gain some FREEDOM!!.


My mom said, "When you graduate HS you are out, unless you go to college. When you graduate college...your out."

Finished college at 23 already had own house, met wife at 24, married at 25. Together 24yrs 2 boys 15 and 20. 20 yr old was told go back to college spring or get your own place. He already bought a 6500 car and paid it off. Told him if his GF ends up pregnant they are not coming back here...we ain't raising no grandkids.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Yeah, my brother, sister and I were all moved out by 18, and starting the next phase in life. 

I started college at 17, out in three yrs, Engineering, married at 23, still together.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Oh good night! 😠An Engineer! 😡I was a Millwright for KBR. My dad was Electrician for same. We all cursed the Enginers! 😁 What were they thinking when they designed this crap!!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Everyone has a right to their own choices. OP, feel free to make this a deal-breaker if you want. Just know, this was a predictable outcome. Perhaps something to learn from for next time.

Betting this 20 year old has depression/anxiety, and just can't face the world yet. His mom is coddling it, and it's a delicate balance. If she is not showing any path to helping him become an independent man, then he'll likely be there for quite some time.

My situation

23 year old son: Living with us, but working full time remotely, paying us some nominal rent, and paying off his college loan. He is no trouble at all, keeps to himself and plans to move out in the next 6-8 months.

22 year old son: Due to his field, will be away for months at a time, and crash with us in between assignments. Currently away, but we have a room here for him. Given his current assignment, he may never return. But we'll see.

20 year old daughter: In college full time, living in her own apartment, be we pay for it. She will live on her own immediately upon graduation, off the payroll. She wouldn't have it any other way.

Every kid and parent is different. You have to establish boundaries and parenting philosophy BEFORE marriage. Lesson learned?


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> Oh good night! An Engineer! I was a Millwright for KBR. My dad was Electrician for same. We all cursed the Enginers!  What were they thinking when they designed this crap!!


They were thinking that they don't have to install this stuff and service it, but to make it work ...


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## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I can only say times have changed. All us boys growing up couldn't wait to be old enough to work, so we could gain some FREEDOM!!.


I couldn't agree with this comment more! When I was a teenager living in the Northeast... I was shoveling snow for people in the neighborhood for pocket change. After that, I had a newspaper route which required me to get up early on the weekends to deliver the paper. I took on part time jobs at Dunkin' Donuts and Micky D's to contribute to my car insurance and have some spending money through high school. My parents encouraged me and I wanted to work to for the pride of having a job and making my own money. 

When I went on a date while in high school, my dad didn't spot me $10 or $20. I had my own cash. 

I can remember walking the halls in high school and talking to my buddies about when we had days off from our JOBS so that we can hang out. It's like it was a thousand years ago when young men wanted to be responsible!


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

TheLyonKyng said:


> I couldn't agree with this comment more! When I was a teenager living in the Northeast... I was shoveling snow for people in the neighborhood for pocket change. After that, I had a newspaper route which required me to get up early on the weekends to deliver the paper. I took on part time jobs at Dunkin' Donuts and Micky D's to contribute to my car insurance and have some spending money through high school. My parents encouraged me and I wanted to work to for the pride of having a job and making my own money.
> 
> When I went on a date while in high school, my dad didn't spot me $10 or $20. I had my own cash.
> 
> I can remember walking the halls in high school and talking to my buddies about when we had days off from our JOBS so that we can hang out. It's like it was a thousand years ago when young men wanted to be responsible!


Have you maybe tried tackling this from another angle? A more...feminine one? 

He's 21? Or almost? Which means, his testosterone, is sky high. I'm 28 and mine is still, sky high. So he probably thinks about sex 80% of the time. 

As he gets older, he'll learn that girls generally don't date guys that live with their parents and work dead-end jobs.
I'm 28, white-collar job (that is admittedly, dead end), bachelor pad downtown near all the bars/clubs, college educated, and tall. And I still have trouble getting matches on Tinder. 

What hope does a guy that lives with his parents, works a part-time job with no future, and still hasn't figured out what he wants to do in life have?


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## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

Broken at 20 said:


> Have you maybe tried tackling this from another angle? A more...feminine one?
> 
> He's 21? Or almost? Which means, his testosterone, is sky high. I'm 28 and mine is still, sky high. So he probably thinks about sex 80% of the time.
> 
> ...


I didn't think that telling someone to grow up, get a job, and respect the home that is being provided for you should take so many different directions. This is not rocket science by any stretch of the imagination. What he needs to do is to get over himself in thinking that he is entitled to a good and comfortable life without having to put forth any effort. I didn't go through everything that I've went through, build what I have built, and fought for what I've had to fight for just to frustrate myself in explaining something so basic to a young man. 

There are things that he should have come to know and understand while growing up. He didn't just step off of the space ship and wasn't handed the manual on how to behave. This has all been a personal choice of his and enforced by his mother... which completely blows my mind. I can remember a time when parents wanted their kids to be successful and independent. 

People tend to over complicate the simplest of things. This really isn't complicated. My wife is making excuses for a grown man's bad behavior. I don't care if he is her child or not. I have a 28 year old son who is independent, living with roommates, working to support himself, and working a full time job. He has a social life and his own bills! I have daughters who live in their own places and work to support themselves. Never have I ever given my kids the "lesson" to live off of anyone else and to be as lazy and as ungrateful as possible.

My current situation is not just new to me, but it is unspeakable and disgraceful. What parent wants their kids to be an Albatross all of their lives?! I understand helping out because that is what family does. But this is far beyond that. If your kid is 5 years old, then you treat them like they are five years old. When they are 20/21 years old, you don't treat them like that are 5-10 years old.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

TheLyonKyng said:


> I didn't think that telling someone to grow up, get a job, and respect the home that is being provided for you should take so many different directions. This is not rocket science by any stretch of the imagination. What he needs to do is to get over himself in thinking that he is entitled to a good and comfortable life without having to put forth any effort. I didn't go through everything that I've went through, build what I have built, and fought for what I've had to fight for just to frustrate myself in explaining something so basic to a young man.
> 
> There are things that he should have come to know and understand while growing up. He didn't just step off of the space ship and wasn't handed the manual on how to behave. This has all been a personal choice of his and enforced by his mother... which completely blows my mind. I can remember a time when parents wanted their kids to be successful and independent.
> 
> ...


So were you looking for a possible solution, or just wanting to complain? 

Because I'll openly admit this generation sucks. 

But if you were just looking to complain, I'll just nod along and say "Yeah...your wife sucks for not wanting to whip this young waste of my future tax dollars into a productive member of society. But what can you do? Guess it's just divorce."


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## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

Broken at 20 said:


> So were you looking for a possible solution, or just wanting to complain?
> 
> Because I'll openly admit this generation sucks.
> 
> But if you were just looking to complain, I'll just nod along and say "Yeah...your wife sucks for not wanting to whip this young waste of my future tax dollars into a productive member of society. But what can you do? Guess it's just divorce."


I have been trying to work towards a solution to all of this for two years now. 

I have mentioned in my previous messages here that marriage is not 50/50 but 100/100. You have to give it your all. Don't half step. When in a relationship, or in just everyday life... people need to actually LISTEN and not just HEAR the other party. I have not been afforded any of these things. 

Men tend to be "fixers"... we like to fix things. I feel that this is not something that I can fix while staying in the family home. My moving out is the result of talking about this more times that it was ever necessary. I have been and continue to be ignored. I am not broken over it, I just don't see the need to waste anymore of my time with a situation that is not going to change.

Maybe, and I stress maybe things will change when I leave out and she has to rethink the entire situation. Sadly, people tend to appreciate you when you are gone or dead. Since I am not trying to be the latter... I need to step away and let them stew in their own mess without me being around.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

One problem is that you don't have the credibilty with a a step-child as with a natural one. Secondly, I'm not sure you truly like, much less love the boy and if that's the case, you probably should not have gotten married. As a stepparent, I can tell you the job is significantly harder than being a regular parent but can be more fulfilling. 

You can try to talk things out, both can be flexible but note if its him or me, you're going to lose.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> So the poster said HIS WIFE said she doesn't want to send him out into the world -- I don't think the OP said that himself.
> 
> Also, I don't think the OP just wants to up and kick him out -- he wants him to "up" and take some responsibility for his life. Sounds like he intentionally tanked the test for the armed forces, and has only applied himself enough to get a part-time job.
> I bet if the kid got a full time job, came to them with some $$ for rent and showed he was responsible, this wouldn't be an issue.
> ...


She doesnt want him thrown out, why would she? Its his home as much as it is the OP's. Few young people leave home just 2 years out of high school. Yes it would still be an issue, he has made it clear he wants him out, period.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TheLyonKyng said:


> This type of thinking is what is wrong with so many families today. You seem to think that kids or young adults have a say or a voice in what an adult does or has to do. I am not here to debate this. This is my life and I was sharing something deep and personal. You are entitled to your opinion, but at the end of the day... that is all that it is.
> 
> As for me being a military person, I couldn't be any more proud to have given Honorable service in the United States Navy. I have fought in combat in an active theater of operations and I am a decorated Sailor. None of my journey was easy. I came from a broken home and I've had to make something of myself or live and die on the streets. What I am asking is a drop in the bucket as to what I have provided to this young man. I have offered my guidance as a man and a step father. Something that has not been offered to him in the past. Instead, he crapped on my offer and in return provided a great deal of disrespect to me, my service, and my effort to assist him.
> 
> ...


My kids are all living independant lives with children of their own and are lovely people, so I guess I did something right. I would never have thrown them out, and my husband, their step dad, had been awsome with them and now his step grandchildren. He loves them as his own, and he took all his responsibilities seriously and didnt run away if things got a bit tough. He said to me, when I married you I took them on as well, now there's character. I wouldn't have married a man who didnt care about my children. Marriage to us is not something that you run away from or end unless its for something very serious like serious abuse or adultery.
I think there is far more to this that what you are saying, I suspect that your marriage isnt good anyway and ths is an excuse to leave. I would love to hear your wifes side of the story, I supect its very different.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TJW said:


> Neither will I. I figured out what both my careers were going to be by age 12. I knew exactly what I wanted to do, my father gave me very good and wise advice on how to "get there". I started both of them, part-time, after-school, summertime beginning at age 15. My mother had to drive me to work. I went to full-time work within 3 or 4 months after high-school graduation.
> 
> So. no..... I don't "get it"....not at all....I have no idea where this mentality comes from....but, I don't respect it one damned bit....
> 
> ...


You are lucky that you knew from a young age what you wanted to do, not many have that clear desire so young. I know quite a few people who found their vocation much later.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

gold5932 said:


> My wife tells me that she is not ready to give up her son and send him out into the world. This is a complete 180! She had also mentioned to me that he has been there for her, and she doesn’t want to lose that. I should just let him take his time to decide what it is that he wants to do even if he waits until he is 25 or beyond.
> 
> This is what the poster stated. He got married after the kid graduated. There is no chance I would marry someone that let their kid do this. She basically lied to him before marriage and now wants the kid to wait until he is 25 is it's ok. Not ok. Why would it be ok? Do you think he would of married her if he knew this. I'd be gone too because our life together is gonna be just awful due to this issue and it's gonna be in your face everyday.
> 
> My daughter went to college at 18 and has never moved back home. 21 is an adult and should be treated as such.


Most young people in the UK where I live cant afford to leave home after college/uni, due to the very high housing costs. She was fortunate she could afford it, but I do know that housing costs there are far cheaper.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

TheLyonKyng said:


> What parent wants their kids to be an Albatross all of their lives?!


A mother who feels guilty because her son lost interface to his father because of her. "Albatross" is a worthy description.



TheLyonKyng said:


> maybe things will change when I leave out and she has to rethink the entire situation.


Nope. It won't change, ever..... it doesn't have anything to do with you. She will not "rethink" this, with you, or without you. She has made a mollycoddled mess out of her son. Too bad that it is HIM who is going to pay the penalty. Him, and his nuclear family, if he ever manages to get one.

She will still be supporting him when he is 50. I watched this play out over decades in my extended family. My MIL did this to my BIL. She cheated on his father and they had a divorce. He turned into a 400-pound, 5-foot-6 (yes, that's not an exaggeration) man-child who never made enough money to keep him out of the family pockets for more than a month. He is now receiving dialysis 3-times a week and has utterly no chance whatsoever of getting on a kidney-transplant list because of comorbidities.

And, yes, momma.....his doctor will say "...diabetes..". I will say YOU.....



TheLyonKing said:


> This type of thinking is what is wrong with so many families today. You seem to think that kids or young adults have a say or a voice in what an adult does or has to do.


This type of thinking is what is wrong in your family, your wife thinks this, and believes this lie of Hollywood and cheap sitcom-TV.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Well, you've made your decision to move out. It'll remove you from the frustration of living with your stepson. But it won't change anything else. Your wife will simply view this as you not being able to handle the situation, which clearly you can't.

And that's totally okay. Just know that your marriage will end as a result. Which is also okay if that's what you want.

Sometimes values are resolutely different between two people, and it's impossible to reconcile them. Not the end of the world. You are in your early 50s, plenty of life ahead of you.


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## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Most young people in the UK where I live cant afford to leave home after college/uni, due to the very high housing costs. She was fortunate she could afford it, but I do know that housing costs there are far cheaper.


It may be high in the UK but I live on the west coast in one of the highest housing markets in the states. And, Portland's housing has exploded with all the CA people moving there. I mean like $500k for 1500 sqft home fixer upper with a scary basement.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

gold5932 said:


> It may be high in the UK but I live on the west coast in one of the highest housing markets in the states. And, Portland's housing has exploded with all the CA people moving there. I mean like $500k for 1500 sqft home fixer upper with a scary basement.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> ...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

gold5932 said:


> It may be high in the UK but I live on the west coast in one of the highest housing markets in the states. And, Portland's housing has exploded with all the CA people moving there. I mean like $500k for 1500 sqft home fixer upper with a scary basement.


To be honest $500,000 is nothing here.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> To be honest $500,000 is nothing here.


Yeah, but you have great health insurance and that wonderful royal family and their progeny whom you dote on and support.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Yeah, but you have great health insurance and that wonderful royal family and their progeny whom you dote on and support.


Yep we sure do. Very grateful as well.


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## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> To be honest $500,000 is nothing here.


Yes, same where I live. I don't think you can buy anything for 500K. Coastal CA is super expensive and with the taxes going up on gas, property, you name it. I paid $4.25 for gas yesterday for premium.

But I still believe kids can move out even making minimum wage. Roommates, just like I did when I was young. My belief the poster should follow his gut stands.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

gold5932 said:


> Yes, same where I live. I don't think you can buy anything for 500K. Coastal CA is super expensive and with the taxes going up on gas, property, you name it. I paid $4.25 for gas yesterday for premium.
> 
> But I still believe kids can move out even making minimum wage. Roommates, just like I did when I was young. My belief the poster should follow his gut stands.


Yes they can move out, but even sharing, (which all my three children did), isnt cheap at all. Rents here are really high. Many young people cant save anything for their own home unless they are living with parents for a time.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm not sure how the price of real estate in the UK affects this thread. Perhaps wunder kid is planning on moving there? At least it would be a plan. Is this kid even buying lottery tickets?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It's still a ****ing pandemic. How many grown adults who have families to feed are out of work now?

It's hardly the time to be kicking out a just turning 20 year old. Or expecting him to be able to get a good full time job. The economy (and life) are far from normal right now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> It's still a ****ing pandemic. How many grown adults who have families to feed are out of work now?
> 
> It's hardly the time to be kicking out a just turning 20 year old. Or expecting him to be able to get a good full time job. The economy (and life) are far from normal right now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm not sure how the price of real estate in the UK affects this thread. Perhaps wunder kid is planning on moving there? At least it would be a plan. Is this kid even buying lottery tickets?


Thst was my fault, I said that few such young people of his age could afford to leave home. Things are not the same as when I was his age, we bought our first home at age 20 and 24, the difference between wages and house prices was completely different in the 70's. Even sharing a place is very expensive, at least over here.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Its makes me so sad that many here seem to value marriage and the vows made so very lightly. Things dont go our way and we are out. We run away. No staying power, no compromise, no sense of keeping promises so recently made, for better and for worse, no sense of responsibilty, no integrity, no strength of character. So very sad.
Having thought about this, I feel the op would have run at the next thing that went wrong or that he didnt like even if it wasnt this, so she is probably better off without a quitter. I hope she finds a good man who will have a sense of responsibilty and some integrity and who will accept her children, and who will stick with her through think and thin. This isnt that man.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Perhaps it's second or more marriages in which better communication is expected and not tolerated for long if bait and switch tactics are perceived encountered. Or abnormally childish grown kids are suddenly put first.

Family members are great, part of family concerns, adult children that abuse help provided are a different story.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Its makes me so sad that many here seem to value marriage and the vows made so very lightly. Things dont go our way and we are out. We run away. No staying power, no compromise, no sense of keeping promises so recently made, for better and for worse, no sense of responsibilty, no integrity, no strength of character. So very sad.
> Having thought about this, I feel the op would have run at the next thing that went wrong or that he didnt like even if it wasnt this, so she is probably better off without a quitter. I hope she finds a good man who will have a sense of responsibilty and some integrity and who will accept her children, and who will stick with her through think and thin. This isnt that man.


It's hard for a grown man to tolerate being sole everything provider for another grown man when that man does nothing daily to try and pull his own weight and sleeps all day plays video games all night or 24 7 social media and is totally unappreciative of the help he's getting. 

Because as grown men we KNOW that enabling sloth is harmful in the long run, and may make the person homeless in the future. 

Being forced to be financial provider, taxi, purchase all the personal needs another grown man requires, and be expected to treat that lazy person as an equal man or person goes against the grain of any mature man that has been working hard all his life.

Period. 

I don't see this case as OP not being willing to help, but rebelling when being forced to financially and with his time support another man that's too lazy to help himself.

And really, it is harmful to do so too long, or that person will get entrenched in his expectations that others will take care of him and his sense of entitlement will be his downfall.

Much less be able to be a productive family member in the lifelong family relationship. 

It's just horrible.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's hard for a grown man to tolerate being sole everything provider for another grown man when that man does nothing daily to try and pull his own weight and sleeps all day plays video games all night or 24 7 social media and is totally unappreciative of the help he's getting.
> 
> Because as grown men we KNOW that enabling sloth is harmful in the long run, and may make the person homeless in the future.
> 
> ...


You are making many assumptions about this young man without knowing about him at all. The OP married this lady when she had an older teenage son. He is only out of school 2 years ago, and now he wants him booted out. The OP is 50, and should be a mature man by now, I dont see that at all. I see a selfish man who takes the weak and easy option and runs away when he cant get his own way and when things become slightly unconvenient. No character and no staying power and no sense of responsibility. She will be better off without him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Perhaps it's second or more marriages in which better communication is expected and not tolerated for long if bait and switch tactics are perceived encountered. Or abnormally childish grown kids are suddenly put first.
> 
> Family members are great, part of family concerns, adult children that abuse help provided are a different story.


I dont see anything here to assume this young man is 'abnormally childish.' Nor is he in anyway 'abusing'. I do see a lot ot show that this 50 year old man is the childish one. The one who cant cope when things get a bit challenging. Who is so quickly breaking his vows.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I dont see anything here to assume this young man is 'abnormally childish.' Nor is he in anyway 'abusing'. I do see a lot ot show that this 50 year old man is the childish one. The one who cant cope when things get a bit challenging. Who is so quickly breaking his vows.


C'mon, Diana. You have to admit that a guy who deliberately scores so low on a test that they have to put a mirror under his nose just has to be a wee bit 'abnormal'/childish/selfish/self-serving/lazy - pick one.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Kindly, if this young man has been living there this long, without finding a job, not going to college, tanked test to avoid going into the military, and hasn't put forth a plan to improve his future those are enough bits if info.

Everyday he plays the mom against the Mom's husband he's displaying childishness and selfishness of epic proportions. 

At this point everyday others go to work while he sits at home doing nothing productive he's insulting the adults in the house.

Unless medical problems In trw one doesn't work, one doesn't eat.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> C'mon, Diana. You have to admit that a guy who deliberately scores so low on a test that they have to put a mirror under his nose just has to be a wee bit 'abnormal'/childish/selfish/self-serving/lazy - pick one.


Maybe he didnt want to go into the military? Its definitely not the sort of career that many of us would suit.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Kindly, if this young man has been living there this long, without finding a job, not going to college, tanked test to avoid going into the military, and hasn't put forth a plan to improve his future those are enough bits if info.
> 
> Everyday he plays the mom against the Mom's husband he's displaying childishness and selfishness of epic proportions.
> 
> ...


You have no idea what he is doing. All we have is the biased one sided view of a man who wants rid of him. OH and BTW he does work. We dont know how many days or hours but in these times of massive unemployment at least he has a job.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> *Maybe he didnt want to go into the military?* Its definitely not the sort of career that many of us would suit.


Ya think? lol Maybe he doesn't wanna go to college. Maybe he doesn't wanna work full-time. Maybe he doesn't wanna give up his bedroom with the cowboy wallpaper and Superman sheets. Bet he wants to eat, though.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> You are making many assumptions about this young man without knowing about him at all. The OP married this lady when she had an older teenage son. He is only out of school 2 years ago, and now he wants him booted out. The OP is 50, and should be a mature man by now, I dont see that at all. I see a selfish man who takes the weak and easy option and runs away when he cant get his own way and when things become slightly unconvenient. No character and no staying power and no sense of responsibility. She will be better off without him.


I gurantee:
The young man has a phone and a phone plan.
He uses mom or step dads computer or has his own laptop. 
Gets mom or step dad to drive him places.
Forces parents to give rides in evenings and times when both would rather enjoy an uninterrupted evening or day.
Still gets haircuts.
Gets clothes.
Has mom cook for him.

And more. Everything that's needed for him to live is provided by others.

And on and on. There is no plan for advancement in sight. 

The no plan thing is salt in the wound. 

He shows no concern for Mom's happiness, he knows he's causing strife and still doing nothing.

Is young, strong, able to work.

So why is he milking his permanent vacation?

Because at this point he can. He knows this.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

My wife has a cousin who sounds identical to this young man. He eventually got into trouble with the law and a judge gave him a choice, 4 years in the military or 2 years in jail. He chose the military. He will tell you today that it was the best thing that ever happened to him. He credits that judge with saving his life.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Because as MEN, we know what's coming in a young man's life when said young man is just gliding along counting on others to care for him.

Call it sexist but it's a reality. Cold hard fact.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's hard for a grown man to tolerate being sole everything provider for another grown man when that man does nothing daily to try and pull his own weight and sleeps all day plays video games all night or 24 7 social media and is totally unappreciative of the help he's getting.
> 
> Because as grown men we KNOW that enabling sloth is harmful in the long run, and may make the person homeless in the future.
> 
> ...


Too many assumptions. OP is SOLE Provider for this 19 year old??? I didn't see that. If OP's wife works, then OP isn't the sole provider. Whose house are they living in? Who actually owns it?

This young man does work, but part time.

Too many assumptions and not a whole lot of information from OP.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Enough is known.

How long would you let a friend (man) or of age family member (man) stay at your home while you daily went to work, or were spending your savings feeding you both, and spouse?


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## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

I think some of the replies on this thread are exactly why kids can't figure out how to get out of the house. Why do we continue to baby our adult children? I'm not talking about kids that have to move home during Covid. I'm talking about this guys stepson. Flunked his military test when basically you just need to put your name on a sheet when he said he was going to do this. Do we think the OP would of married this lady if he knew the stepson was going to be there? Absolutely not. If he did, then it's on him and he needs to calm down. But that's not what happened. And I don't care how much it costs to get out of your parents house. Get 2 jobs if you have to. 

But we as parents need to get the kids out of the house. It may be cruel to some but that's our job to make sure they can survive on their own. The poster is absolutely 100% correct.


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## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

Oh and to the people that say there's no jobs due to COVID, you are absolutely incorrect. I live in a large city and there are a lot of jobs for people willing to work and have some basic skills. But the real problem now is that you can make more from unemployment than you can working.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Ya think? lol Maybe he doesn't wanna go to college. Maybe he doesn't wanna work full-time. Maybe he doesn't wanna give up his bedroom with the cowboy wallpaper and Superman sheets. Bet he wants to eat, though.


Maybe he actually wants to be able to live in his own home and not be rejected and thrown out by a man he barely knows. It's just as much his home as it is anyones.
As usual like others, you are making things up about him when you know little. All we know are the few words of an immature 50-year-old man who can't even keep his marriage vows for 3 years. Who cant even be man enough to accept that life isn't always as we want and that mature people of character don't run away from problems. What a dreadful example he is being to this young man. This is how NOT to act. 

I wonder how many parents of adult children had them all leave home before or at age 20 in recent years. I bet there are quite a few who didn't, probably the majority.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

gold5932 said:


> Oh and to the people that say there's no jobs due to COVID, you are absolutely incorrect. I live in a large city and there are a lot of jobs for people willing to work and have some basic skills. But the real problem now is that you can make more from unemployment than you can working.


It depends on where you live. There have been massive job losses in many places, certainly where I live.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe he actually wants to be able to live in his own home and not be rejected and thrown out by a man he barely knows. It's just as much his home as it is anyones.
> As usual like others, you are making things up about him when you know little. All we know are the few words of an immature 50-year-old man who can't even keep his marriage vows for 3 years. Who cant even be man enough to accept that life isn't always as we want and that mature people of character don't run away from problems. What a dreadful example he is being to this young man. This is how NOT to act.
> 
> I wonder how many parents of adult children had them all leave home before or at age 20 in recent years. I bet there are quite a few who didn't, probably the majority.


You got me dead to rights - I made up the cowboy wallpaper and Superman sheets. Everything else is fact.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe he actually wants to be able to live in his own home and not be rejected and thrown out by a man he barely knows. It's just as much his home as it is anyones.
> As usual like others, you are making things up about him when you know little. All we know are the few words of an immature 50-year-old man who can't even keep his marriage vows for 3 years. Who cant even be man enough to accept that life isn't always as we want and that mature people of character don't run away from problems. What a dreadful example he is being to this young man. This is how NOT to act.
> 
> I wonder how many parents of adult children had them all leave home before or at age 20 in recent years. I bet there are quite a few who didn't, probably the majority.


It's not that the boy lives at home, it's that he's skating, not living up to his potential.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Livvie said:


> It's still a ****ing pandemic. How many grown adults who have families to feed are out of work now?
> 
> It's hardly the time to be kicking out a just turning 20 year old. Or expecting him to be able to get a good full time job. The economy (and life) are far from normal right now.


That doesn't take anything away from how pathetic this young man is.

My youngest isn't much older and is supporting three kids and my daughter in law as she completes college for becoming a nurse.

The young man in this post is not motivated to do anything except ruin his mother. She is certainly helping and will have a pretty crappy life as a result.

Did you not read what this lazy thing did on his test to get into the military?

Mommy can have her grown up baby and maybe some cats but she needn't apply for being a wife.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I dont see anything here to assume this young man is 'abnormally childish.' Nor is he in anyway 'abusing'. I do see a lot ot show that this 50 year old man is the childish one. The one who cant cope when things get a bit challenging. Who is so quickly breaking his vows.


Yeah. She would actually need to be keeping hers. She isn't. Is she respecting her husband and being submissive to him?

Leave your Bible at the door if you want to argue with me over this one.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

I see a 'nature' VS 'nuture' theme in this thread.

Best if you guys decide which one applies from whom...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. She would actually need to be keeping hers. She isn't. Is she respecting her husband and being submissive to him?
> 
> Leave your Bible at the door if you want to argue with me over this one.


That's why it's so important that we marry someone with integrity and who will treat our children as their own and care about them and be a good role model for them. Marrying a person who doesn't even want them around and is pretty selfish is asking for trouble. 

Submission isn't meaning that you do the wrong thing and throw a child out onto the streets. How is he loving his wife as Christ loves the church come to that. How is he keeping his marriage vows? The promises he made? Living up to his responsibilities? You can respect a person but not do something that they want that is wrong. If he isn't going to help and encourage that young man, then she has to. If he isn't going to be a good parental example then she has to carry on being his only parent (which is a very hard job).
It's significant to me that my husband thinks his attitude is appalling. He is a man who loved my children all through hard times, who loves them as his own, who believes in keeping the vows and promise you make and not go running off at the first sign of trouble.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The bottom line is most people have a dealbreaker or two. No one gets to tell another that their dealbreaker is wrong.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> The bottom line is most people have a dealbreaker or two. No one gets to tell another that their dealbreaker is wrong.


Depends on how much we value marriage and the vows we made. He clearly values them very little, he has only kept them for 3 years. I think his reason for ending this marriage is one of the weakest and most pathetic excuses I have read on this forum.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I agree 100% with how you are handling this. Hope it works out for you.


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