# Honestly, have you stayed in a bad marriage due to finances?



## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Just curious as to how many actually do stay in a bad marriage due to not being able to support themselves?

A female with 3 kids in a marriage over 25 years (depending of state laws) could live comfortably with receiving child support, spousal support/alimony, financial agreements regarding what % she gets of his investments/life insurance, etc, etc. Please do not think I am making this sound as a one-way discussion in the females' favor. I have a male friend who was married for 8 years and due to her not being able to conceive, they adopted 3 kids. She checked out of the marriage and moved away never wanting anything to do with the adopted kids. She pays him support amongst other gratuities.

I'm sure I am going to get mixed reviews on this but curious as to others' point of view and experiences on this topic.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

What is the basis for the bad marriage?


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Xenote said:


> What is the basis for the bad marriage?


This is an open-ended question. It could be for an array of reasons; being unfaithful, growing apart, needs not being met, a spouse not willing to change for the better good of the union/marriage just to name a few.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Currently yes, though trying to objectively balance the options.

Mandatory retirement is 11 years away. Due to various events beyond my control (9/11, the walmart-ization of the airlines, etc), pensions are gone and pay is 1/3rd what it used to be. Furthermore, family money was stolen by a step-grandparent and willed away from our side of the family. So my expectations of a nice income to facilitate good savings, a generous pension, and some inheritance have vaporized.

My wife would be entitled to lifetime alimony if she presses for it.

Though she stands to inherit about $1million, and it is very solid she will get it, inheritance doesn't count in splitting the assets or calculating alimony.

Bottom line is I could walk away with nearly zero and not pay any alimony, with 11 years to save up for retirement. Or, I could keep my 401k but not be able to really add much to my savings due to alimony.

Or I can stay and have an adequate retirement financially. Not lavish, but solid middle class retirement. No worries about how to pay for food or other basics.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

STORMCHASER said:


> Just curious as to how many actually do stay in a bad marriage due to not being able to support themselves?
> 
> A female with 3 kids in a marriage over 25 years (depending of state laws) could live comfortably with receiving child support, spousal support/alimony, financial agreements regarding what % she gets of his investments/life insurance, etc, etc. Please do not think I am making this sound as a one-way discussion in the females' favor. I have a male friend who was married for 8 years and due to her not being able to conceive, they adopted 3 kids. She checked out of the marriage and moved away never wanting anything to do with the adopted kids. She pays him support amongst other gratuities.
> 
> I'm sure I am going to get mixed reviews on this but curious as to others' point of view and experiences on this topic.


Staying together for financial reasons I do think is very state dependent. In Indiana for instance even in a 25 year marriage one party can only receive alimony for a couple of years at the most. In California it would probably be lifetime. 

In the case of a stay at home spouse I can see where finances come into play. One spouse makes say 50k, alimony would take half that sum so now each needs to live off 25k. 50k two people living in one house can live and make ends meet. 2 people trying to live on 25k living separate is much harder. 

I have on friend facing the divorce dilemma now who is in a 4th generation family business. Long story short its a niche business and it makes them a living but it has buildings/equipment that have value. He would have to pay her half because in my state even though the business was basically inherited it isn't. Keeping assets like inherited ones exempt is very hard in my state long term. The business simply couldn't survive him having to take a loan to get her out and pay alimony and child support. 

They have been married over 20 years, youngest child is 8. Staying married they keep the house, the bills get paid. Getting divorced his business wouldn't survive, the house would have to be sold, his employees would lose there jobs and he would have no income.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I think that's what stops me from divorce (right after the kids). We have home, kids and business together. Together is great income, if split it won't be the same. But i wouldn't mind lower standard of living, what keeps me in marriage are kids. I believe at this point, if we are able to keep the crap somehow under control, it is better for them to have both parents at home.


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

A friend of mine who has been married over 25 yrs married his wife cause she got pregnant and did the so-called "right thing". His children are grown (last one is in her senior year of college) and he is considering divorce. He will lose almost everything because all of the assets are marital property (property acquired during the marriage). We both live in Pennsylvania. He is 52 but very unhappy and has been for over 15 yrs. They have lived like room mates (separate bedrooms) for the past couple years and the wife (who is an RN) has chosen alcohol as her go-to best friend the past 5 years. Marriage counseling 3x over and has not done them any good.

I am using the above scenerio because not only is he a friend of mine, he continues to tell me that I should get a free consult and see what my choices and what my situation can or would be. Also that he would hate to see me in his situation years down the road because I am only 43 and will be married only 5 years this December. I also have no children "BUT" I could not live here on my own. My house was brought into this marriage and would not be considered marital property, for it is mine alone but so does all the bills, etc that go with it. I am very unhappy with a husband that puts me, his wife, on the back burner to his work and family. When we talk it is not talking, it is fighting. I love him, but, I am not "in love" with him. Resentment has taken over (on my part) and we also do not do anything together. We have no common interests and I spend time thinking of what it would be like to be with someone who is a "real" partner? Friend? Protector? Confidant? 

Some think it is not worth the risk of losing so much to be happy..others do. It's a roll of the dice I am guessing?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Well in your situation I guess I don’t see how the finances are holding you two together. Housewise you will have to divide up whatever equity got built up during the marriage but you have no children so no support issues or custody fights. Alimony most likely wouldn’t be a factor either given a 5 year marriage. 
You owned the house prior to marriage, you had these household bills then, what is different now? Did you used to work but no longer work?
Your friends situation has larger financial implications but no insurmountable. If she is working as an RN she should have a good salary so from an alimony standpoint unless he makes a great deal more than her shouldn’t be an issue. Child support a non-factor. House/asset division would cost him but he wont lose everything. 
In long term marriages most times the cost of alimony is what keeps two together. Houses and stuff can be replaced. Staying miserable to keep a house just isn’t worth it, at least in my opinion.


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

honcho said:


> You owned the house prior to marriage, you had these household bills then, what is different now? Did you used to work but no longer work?


I worked full time and no longer do, for I work part time. This was DH idea due to the fact that he wanted me home more often. I was also advised by my doctor to so called "slow down" due to medical reasons and she also advised working part time. He made enough that I did not have to work at all but I do work part time. He also had a lot to do with the purchase of a brand new SUV. I had an older one (paid off) that was doing it's job getting me from point A to point B, but, my new job is much farther now and he felt it would be better (and much "safer") for me in a newer vehicle.

So the answer is still no, that I could not afford to live here on my own. The only thing is that if I do stay longer, it would benefit me as far as financially but still unhappy. I have to come to terms if it is worth losing my house, file bankruptcy, etc. Working full time or working 2 part time jobs would put me in the hospital. I am also covered under his medical insurance and with my medical issues (not serious illness) I could not imagine not having any coverage. 

I could go on and on, but, most of us on here are so-called "newbies" to the divorce subject or we wouldn't be here asking questions and getting advice. I appreciate any and all advice you are willing to share.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Stormchaser, have you thoroughly investigated how the finances would work in your location wrt divorce? 

From what you are describing, it sounds like you are prioritizing your house above your happiness. You prefer to stay in this house and to be unhappy in your marriage, rather than get out of the bad marriage but have to move to a different house.

There is no guarantee your husband will stay with you, and then you'd be in the same situation as if you had initiated divorce.

Have you considered other options such as selling the new SUV and buying an older used one?

Finances can be a very real barrier to divorce. For some people they will become destitute, or they will have to take an enormous and permanent reduction in quality of life. From what you write it doesn't sound to me like that is your situation. In fact it almost seems like you are making excuses not to divorce, yet you know in your heart that you can never be happy in this marriage.

At your age I advise you to get out of the marriage if you don't see strong improvement and believe it can be a very good marriage. There are many men who would be thrilled to be dating and get married to a woman of your age. But in another 10 years that reduces, and in another 10 years after that it reduces even more. The same is true for us men, our desirability unfortunately declines with age.

I am 53 and this is a real concern of mine. All of the factors become more restrictive with age. Our health can become a problem, as it is tougher to find a mate when we are in poor health. Finances become far more confining every year. Retirement becomes a bigger factor.

If you can't see your marriage being something you enjoy, I would advise you not do what I did. I stayed on because of the kids, figuring there would always be time in the future to get things in the marriage straightened out. The cracks in the marriage only get worse with time, not better. If you can't fix things now, they will only get worse in the future. But then you'll find yourself another 10 years older with fewer options than you have today, and even more unhappy in your marriage.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

What's Thor said. it looks like only house keeps you in this marriage. If you cannot maintain it by yourself, sell it after divorce, buy small nice condo that you can afford even on part time salary.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

I think my wife doesn't want to divorce because of finances. She was a SAHM for about 8 years. She chose to stay home way longer than she should of. Now her income is so small, the is no way she could afford to live and support herself on her income. Especially if we had 50/50 custody. 

Overall, money keeps us together. We are beginning to live separate lives though.

From my POV, if I knew she would be fine financially as well as myself, D would be a real possibility. 

Our daughter play a huge role as well. Neither one of us want to be the one to move out.

We can't sell our home because rents have increased so much in the past few years. Our mortgage is way less than most small apartments

so yes, we are both stuck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

STORMCHASER said:


> I worked full time and no longer do, for I work part time. This was DH idea due to the fact that he wanted me home more often. I was also advised by my doctor to so called "slow down" due to medical reasons and she also advised working part time. He made enough that I did not have to work at all but I do work part time. He also had a lot to do with the purchase of a brand new SUV. I had an older one (paid off) that was doing it's job getting me from point A to point B, but, my new job is much farther now and he felt it would be better (and much "safer") for me in a newer vehicle.
> 
> So the answer is still no, that I could not afford to live here on my own. The only thing is that if I do stay longer, it would benefit me as far as financially but still unhappy. I have to come to terms if it is worth losing my house, file bankruptcy, etc. Working full time or working 2 part time jobs would put me in the hospital. I am also covered under his medical insurance and with my medical issues (not serious illness) I could not imagine not having any coverage.
> 
> I could go on and on, but, most of us on here are so-called "newbies" to the divorce subject or we wouldn't be here asking questions and getting advice. I appreciate any and all advice you are willing to share.


If you had never married you would still be facing most of these same questions because of your medical issues. Medically you aren't able to work full-time. While originally the two of you decided that you would work less hours the medical issues have appeared to make the decision permanent and that would have occurred whether married or not.

How would you as a single person figured a resolution to the problems you face today?


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

honcho said:


> If you had never married you would still be facing most of these same questions because of your medical issues. Medically you aren't able to work full-time. While originally the two of you decided that you would work less hours the medical issues have appeared to make the decision permanent and that would have occurred whether married or not.
> 
> How would you as a single person figured a resolution to the problems you face today?


I understand where you are coming from. I have not thought of it that way and now that I am, I guess I would have done a couple things differently. I would have never allowed my certifications (for previous job) run out and I would have continued to work full time until I "absolutely" could not do it anymore. My doctor has "advised" me not to and because both me and DH have discussed it, we decided that we could live with him working full time and me part time. Sometimes we make sacrifices for the good of the marriage, personal issues, health, etc. I left my full time job knowing that my DH had my back and it was for the better good of not only my health, but for our piece of mind. 

I also would have never sold my honda. DH got a decent raise and was nagging me about getting a new vehicle so I agreed to get a new SUV. On September 25th, after being with the same company for 15 yrs, he got into an altercation with a co-worker and he got fired. I was in shock for a week. I later found out that they were downsizing and many others within the company were getting let-go so they used this altercation as an excuse to let him go. I do not know how much truth is in that but he is now on unemployment and keeping fingers crossed that he gets hired by an ex-boss.

We have never gone through marriage counseling and DH says we should think about it. He also said that he is not going to give up that easily and will not grant me a divorce. :scratchhead:


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> I think that's what stops me from divorce (right after the kids). We have home, kids and business together. Together is great income, if split it won't be the same. But i wouldn't mind lower standard of living, what keeps me in marriage are kids. I believe at this point, if we are able to keep the crap somehow under control, *it is better for them to have both parents at home*.


I agree with the bolded. I've been married for 25 years and the relationship has been pure hell. She came into it with one kid, who is now grown and out of college, and we now have two teenagers, one who wants to go to private school (he will if he gets scholarships) and another trying to get into college (hopefully with scholarships). I would have left long ago if not for the kids. We simply are incompatible and have been from the start. We do not get along in the least, and dealing with her on a daily basis is impossible. At this point, though, because of debts she has incurred (taxes mostly), and the fact that I make much less than she does, I couldn't afford to leave even if I wanted to. And I do not want to be away from the kids. So I'm stuck in so many ways.


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## TahoeGuy (Aug 1, 2014)

Raises hand.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

Yes.

I am trapped. I wonder if he feels trapped. I will never know though because I am not allowed to share what I feel if it is negative in relation to him.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

STORMCHASER-

One of my single female neighbors has 2 roommates. The roommates pay enough to cover her mortgage and electric bill. 

Is that a possibility for you? 

Does your husband know you are miserable?

Does your husband know how you feel?


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Finances are part of it for me - I make more than her (I'm a partner in a professional service business, she's in a quasi-government job), and with two kids and a nice house, would be difficult to uproot everything. Doesn't help that she's clueless about money (as most in her career are). 

Issues go deeper than money, but it's certainly an important factor.


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## TooFamliar (Nov 11, 2014)

Yes absolutely. I feel like I am stuck. It's a horrible feeling.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

STORMCHASER said:


> Just curious as to how many actually do stay in a bad marriage due to not being able to support themselves?


Yes, finances are the big reason I'm still here. 

I'm a stay at home Dad, I haven't worked full-time in over 5 years. She makes all the money.

About 8 months ago we had a HUGE fight. She accused me of having an affair with a mutual friend (it was because of a misunderstanding and a really bad joke). She was drunk, and hit the ceiling. She was yelling and screaming until 3 am, and threatened to call the cops and have me thrown out of the house.

Long story short, I took a good hard look at my life that day. I realized if she did kick me out, or if I left, I would be up a creek without a paddle. Very little savings, no steady income. I would have to become a greeter at Walmart or something.

So while my marriage is horrible, I can't do anything about it until/unless my financial picture changes. And I'm not sure how to make that happen. All the options I've considered are pretty bad.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

HiLibido, do you live in an alimony state? If so, your picture isn't so bleak.

Have you considered a part time job or a home based business?


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Thor said:


> HiLibido, do you live in an alimony state? If so, your picture isn't so bleak.


Not sure what an alimony state is. I live in South Carolina. The law does provide for alimony: "If such claim shall appear well-founded the court shall allow a reasonable sum therefor." The key term is "well-founded." I would lay odds no judge would grant me alimony. They'd say, "Get a job, loser." Plus, I don't have the money to pay an attorney to fight that battle.



Thor said:


> Have you considered a part time job or a home based business?


Part-time won't cut it, and full time less than about $20/hour won't either. I've talked to recruiters and employment services, and my resume is woefully out of date. I could likely get retail work for $10/hour. Not a good solution.

I've tried several home based businesses, and agree this is my best option, but I haven't made that work yet. Taking care of the kids (9 & 7) is almost a full-time job as it is, and that gets in the way of trying to work at home. Obviously if we separated, that issue would likely go away, as she would get the kids.

I said finances are a big reason, but my kids are another big reason. I love them to pieces, and don't want them out of my life. I can put up with a lot of crap to stay with them... 

If money were not an issue at all, i.e., if I were rich, I would probably sue for divorce and full custody. She works 70 hours a week anyway, she wouldn't miss them that much...


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

hilibido, i have kids similar ages, and work from home. they are in school most of the day. sometimes i need to work when they home, but they big enough to take care of themselves for a while. it can be done


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

I filed for divorce in Feb. 2013 but I'm still there, mostly because of finances. She asked for 72% of my income, I countered with 50% last week. Waiting to see what she says to that.

But honestly I have not pursued this as diligently as some would have simply because it's a tough pill to swallow, losing half of everything I worked for and writing her checks for an undetermined number of years.

So yes, I am still there because of finances. Very unhappy but at least I still live with my kids. And things are slowly moving to a final decree. It sucks no matter what.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

STORMCHASER said:


> He also said that he is not going to give up that easily and will not grant me a divorce. :scratchhead:


Not sure of the laws in PA but here in FL a spouse can't "not grant a divorce". They either accept it and deal with it or the judge will decide what they get or don't get.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

HiLibido said:


> Not sure what an alimony state is. I live in South Carolina. The law does provide for alimony: "If such claim shall appear well-founded the court shall allow a reasonable sum therefor." The key term is "well-founded." I would lay odds no judge would grant me alimony. They'd say, "Get a job, loser." Plus, I don't have the money to pay an attorney to fight that battle.


Most lawyers will give you a free consultation. You can get your basic questions answered and they will tell you how things usually work where you live. Some will do a phone consult, others will do an in-office consult.

Alimony in general seeks to level out the earnings. The court will attempt to figure out what you could realistically earn and base their calculations on that. So if you had said you could make $500k but are a SAHD, the court probably would not award you alimony. But if you're in the $20k to $40k range things are very different. Also, the court will consider that you and your wife had agreed on you staying home with the kids because of your values. You both agreed you preferred for you to be home raising the kids rather than have the extra income you could have earned.

On top of alimony would be child support she would pay to you.

Things might be pretty tight, and you might be forced to get a job just to have a livable income even considering alimony. But only a lawyer could tell you what you would likely get in the way of alimony.

A lawyer would likely get paid by your wife or out of your joint savings account because you have no income. This situation is not new, just new to you.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

Thor said:


> Most lawyers will give you a free consultation. You can get your basic questions answered and they will tell you how things usually work where you live. Some will do a phone consult, others will do an in-office consult....
> 
> This situation is not new, just new to you.


Hadn't thought of that. Perhaps I will call around.


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## BlueGray (Sep 29, 2014)

If money was not an issue, I would divorce my husband in a heartbeat. He is well aware of this. He is also aware that I am preparing to divorce him by going back to school and developing my career.
If he had to pay me alimony, it would be hard for him to make ends meet. In our state, he would have to pay me for the rest of his life, if I don't remarry. I don't want that. I also don't want to be living off of his income if I'm not married to him. I want to have a career and make my own money.
He says he loves me, can't live without me, etc., but he has not been a good husband to me. He is immature and cannot be trusted. I am through with the way he treats me. If he can make major changes in the next 4 years and treat me honorably, maybe I'll stay with him, but as it is right now, I don't really see that happening.
I cannot imagine staying married indefinitely due to finances. I would find a way to be financially independent. I'd rather live with less materially than live with someone who doesn't love me and treat me honorably. That is why I am making an exit plan. It may seem like a long time, but it's not forever. At least I have an end in sight.


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