# Why I did it with him and not you



## Girl_power

Just sharing my limited experience and point of view hoping it will help some men. 

I am HD, I consider myself a “disgusting pervert” but I am not very kinky. I have had 3 sexual partners. 

The first was my exH. And he was a “disgusting pervert” like me. He made me feel like he was obsessed with me. He would kiss my feet, and loved going down on me and licking my butt. I can tell he loved it, not necessarily because I liked it and that’s an important point. If I texted him I’m horny he would be like wait for me!! And rush home. We had phone sex when we were apart. I felt sexually very comfortable with him. 

My next partner was after the divorce and I was more self conscious. Let’s call him mark. Mark was also a disgusting pervert like me. He loved sex, and anal, and oral, and he had a fetish for cream pies. He made me feel very sexually comfortable, like I didn’t have to be perfect and he still made me feel like I was a supermodel/porn star. We would Snapchat and masterbate together when we were apart. He loved a straight view of my vagina, and me masterbating. I don’t think most men like to see the vagina that up close, they would rather see the whole picture or boobs or whatever. He also wanted me to do things I didn’t want to do like finger my ass, but the fact that he wanted me to do that was a turn on for me. 

My last partner was not a disgusting pervert, he was normal and like normal sex and watched normal porn. Let’s call him Tom. Tom and I got along great outside of the bedroom. Sex was good, he lasted a long time and usually always made me orgasm. But he was missing that oomph. He told me he liked going down on me, but I could tell he didn’t. I can tell by the way he did it, how often he did it etc. I can tell that he did it because he knew I liked it and not because he loved it. He did not make me feel sexually comfortable because I felt like I was a bigger “freak” then him, but also I can tell he wasn’t obsessed with my body like my other partners were. He made me feel like I had to look my best all the time. One time while we were in bed he drew my attention to my inner thigh because I guess I forgot to shave there or something. It pissed me off. He liked me to wear nice underwear, preferably matching (which I never did). He made me feel like I had to dress up for him in order for him to want to have sex with me. I was not sexually open to him or comfortable with him. Even though he would SAY he wanted me to be, and he would SAY all the right things.

My point is that, it was day and night between my first 2 partners and my third. And Tom and j had good sex, and occasionally anal sex, but we never had great sex. He was inhibited, and self conscious and too in his head, and he did things bc he wanted me to enjoy them but I can tell he didn’t really enjoy them. While the others just enjoyed themselves If that makes sense. 


I don’t know if this was helpful or not haha.


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## fto0293

Thank you for sharing this.

EDIT: After posting, I worried that the short response would be interpreted as sarcasm, so to clarify, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to write this. 

This is a perennial and inevitable topic on any relationship-centered forum (and some non-relationship forums) so any data points society can get about this are much appreciated, at least by me.


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## sokillme

This is a good post but what is interesting to me about this post is how passive you are in all of it. It's all up to the guy to make YOU feel that way. I suspect given your description Tom wasn't interested in really kinky sex anyway. Did he ask you to do things for him that you wouldn't? I think your situation is different in that way as it sounds like you weren't turning him down so much as he was disinterested in anything further. Who knows maybe with a different partner Tom would write the same post about your sex life that you did. 

Not that is unusual though, but it always seems like all of this is the man's job, if she isn't turned on it's his fault, if he isn't turned on it's his fault. It's just funny when husbands write posts like this about their wives (about how they are boring in bed or whatever) there usually is a big push back. I mean imagine the same post with a guy talking about how he can tell his wife isn't into oral sex, how would that go over?

I think the real issue is that people don't try to get better at it they just assume it's that way to stay. I'm of the opinion that sex is not static, the worst kind of lover is the kind that doesn't try to improve the situation and just assumes that it's stuck not taking agency in their sex life. 

If your spouse (man or women) isn't turned on by you maybe you aren't doing the things that turn them on. Sex is not something someone does to you it's something you do together.

I general I think there are a few reasons why this situation happens. Let's take out the women who are vanilla an always will be. The first is the wife did kinky things in her past as a kind of currency to get past boyfriends to like them, maybe even their husbands who they are now vanilla. The whole thing was a kind of bate and switch. This kind of person who uses sex as currency is always going to suck in bed. They don't get it, and they probably never will. They may also cheat and go right back to that pattern of doing the kinky stuff at the beginning but that is because they do the kinky stuff at the beginning of every relationship. It's not that they are really into it it's just that they know it's a good "selling point". 

This is really the worst kind of person to be married to in terms of sex, and why I would tell any young person to really investigate how involved their potential mate doesn't use sex as a kind of currency as a part of hook up culture which seems to be typical. There is a difference. OP for instance just likes it. 

Another reason is there are issues in the relationship, probably hurts and the wife doesn't feel close to her husband anymore (doesn't matter who is responsible). Or she is very tired from life. Maybe she has even taken him for granted. But in this case maybe you can heal that and it can get better if you work on it and if both people understand that it's something they can do for fun. The point being if she is into it she will be into it again.

There is also the idea that some women need the right kind of man to help them feel safe and comfortable to open up sexually. 

Your situation just sounds like he wasn't interested in it so I don't think he is disappointing he didn't have it.


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## Girl_power

sokillme said:


> This is a good post but what is interesting to me about this post is how passive you are in all of it. It's all up to the guy to make YOU feel that way. Maybe YOUR third husband would write the same post about you. Maybe you just didn't do it for him.
> 
> Not that is unusual though, but it always seems like all of this is the man's job, if she isn't turned on it's his fault, if he isn't turned on it's his fault. It's just funny when husbands write posts like this about their wives (about how they are boring in bed or whatever) there usually is a big push back. I mean imagine the same post with a guy talking about how he can tell his wife isn't into oral sex, how would that go over?
> 
> I'm of the opinion that sex is not static, the worst kind of lover is the kind that doesn't try to improve the situation and just assumes that it's stuck and also don't take responsibility for at least 50% of their sex life.
> 
> If your spouse (man or women) isn't turned on by you maybe you aren't doing the things that turn them on.




I am not passive. But from my viewpoint it takes 2 to make sex great. 
Not to toot my own horn but I’m good in bed. Tom (third boyfriend), told me I was hands down the best sex he has ever had, and it’s not because I am skillful, it’s because I LOVE sex. In the beginning of the relationship the sex was awesome, but I didn’t realize it at the time but it was bc I was carrying it. He told me his ex use to tell him he has a low sex drive (he does). He also told me that he never once went down on his ex girlfriend of 6 years because she was unhygienic. 

Anyway, jt isn’t the mans job and I didn’t mean for it to come across the way. I think that when your with someone who is equally and genuinely enjoying sex, it makes you feel more comfortable, and you can enjoy it more. It’s like you are allowed to feel comfortable in your own skin with your likes and dislikes because they are shared. With Tom, I wasn’t going to grab his head and shove him in my vagina when he went down on me bc I know he would be horrified. With my first two partners this was a normal occurrence. 

This is not about being one genders fault. It’s about sexual incompatibility. And when your with someone who you are compatible with, it makes you feel more like yourself and less inhibited. Because at the end of the day, we don’t want to do something our partner doesn’t like, so we are inhibited. 

Some people get grossed out Easy. Some people need every t crossed before they have sex. Some people don’t like bodily fluids. It is what it is, and although most of us can fake it in the beginning, the truth eventually comes out. Some people are good actors. And it’s not about “being turned on enough”. That’s offensive. Why be with someone if your not turned on by them, especially during the dating part. People who say... well she doesn’t do it for you because you don’t turn her on is offensive and rude. And chances are, she/he is done faking liking it.


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## sokillme

Girl_power said:


> I am not passive. But from my viewpoint it takes 2 to make sex great.
> Not to toot my own horn but I’m good in bed. Tom (third boyfriend), told me I was hands down the best sex he has ever had, and it’s not because I am skillful, it’s because I LOVE sex. In the beginning of the relationship the sex was awesome, but I didn’t realize it at the time but it was bc I was carrying it. He told me his ex use to tell him he has a low sex drive (he does). He also told me that he never once went down on his ex girlfriend of 6 years because she was unhygienic.
> 
> Anyway, jt isn’t the mans job and I didn’t mean for it to come across the way. I think that when your with someone who is equally and genuinely enjoying sex, it makes you feel more comfortable, and you can enjoy it more. It’s like you are allowed to feel comfortable in your own skin with your likes and dislikes because they are shared. With Tom, I wasn’t going to grab his head and shove him in my vagina when he went down on me bc I know he would be horrified. With my first two partners this was a normal occurrence.
> 
> This is not about being one genders fault. It’s about sexual incompatibility. And when your with someone who you are compatible with, it makes you feel more like yourself and less inhibited. Because at the end of the day, we don’t want to do something our partner doesn’t like, so we are inhibited.
> 
> Some people get grossed out Easy. Some people need every t crossed before they have sex. Some people don’t like bodily fluids. It is what it is, and although most of us can fake it in the beginning, the truth eventually comes out. Some people are good actors. And it’s not about “being turned on enough”. That’s offensive. Why be with someone if your not turned on by them, especially during the dating part. People who say... well she doesn’t do it for you because you don’t turn her on is offensive and rude. And chances are, she/he is done faking liking it.


Hey I rewrote my post as it came across way too harsh, I think I didn't fix it fast enough before I responded. Please re-read the last post as I added stuff as well to better explain my thoughts. 

One thing I would say about this is if your partner is grossed out easily then they are probably not going to want to push the envelope anyway right? Like it seems like Tom didn't want to do kinky stuff at least with you. If anything your post kind of matches what a lot of these husbands go through except it's that their wives fake it and act like they enjoy kinky sex when they are dating because they know it gives them a better chance to land these guys. Or they did that and not the act is tainted. 

Did you ever try to spice things up with Tom? If not why not, sounds like you would have been more happy if you had a more intense level of sex.


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## Girl_power

sokillme said:


> Hey I rewrote my post as it came across way too harsh, I think I didn't fix it fast enough. Please re-read the last post as I added stuff as well to better explain my thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing I would say about this is if your partner is grossed out easily then they are probably not going to want to push the envelope anyway right? Like it seems like Tom didn't want to do kinky stuff at least with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever try to spice things up with Tom? If not why not, sounds like you would have been more happy if you had a more intense level of sex.




In the beginning of the relationship we talked about what we are into, porn we watch, things that we would like to do that we haven’t done etc. he watches “normal” porn. He said he always wanted to try anal but that’s as far as his kinks go. I like anal I’ve had it before so we did it. 
The thing is, I am not kinky at least I don’t consider what I like kinky. I like Intercourse, anal, and oral. I don’t like whips and chains, I don’t want anyone else in the bedroom with us. The only thing one could say about me is that I’m aggressive. I like personal, passionate, animalistic sex. I get that it won’t be like that all the time. But I like to please and I like to be pleased. And that involves being verbal and knowing what you like. 
It’s like I like oral sex. So yes I’m going to grab his hair and hump his face because it feels great. It turns me on when my partner is turned on, so yes I want to have phone sex or video masterbate together. I like a man that knows what he likes and verbalized it. For example, look at me when you cum, say my name, turn on your back. Or whatever. I’m the same way. To me, it’s not kinky it’s active participation. 
With Tom, it was hard to spice things up. He was always stressed out with work, and we only had sex once a week. I tried initiating and it didn’t go anywhere. The only thing he liked was lingerie, and stockings but that just got him in the mood it didn’t change how he was during sex. 

The other thing I can’t stand is when someone talks about their past partners sex life negatively. He said all this mean stuff about his ex and how she smells bad and it just upset me because I don’t think that should be shared. And it makes me want to open up less with him bc god forbid something embarrassing happened or whatever I don’t want him to talk about it with other people. That’s a big no no to me.


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## sokillme

Girl_power said:


> In the beginning of the relationship we talked about what we are into, porn we watch, things that we would like to do that we haven’t done etc. he watches “normal” porn. He said he always wanted to try anal but that’s as far as his kinks go. I like anal I’ve had it before so we did it.
> The thing is, I am not kinky at least I don’t consider what I like kinky. I like Intercourse, anal, and oral. I don’t like whips and chains, I don’t want anyone else in the bedroom with us. The only thing one could say about me is that I’m aggressive. I like personal, passionate, animalistic sex. I get that it won’t be like that all the time. But I like to please and I like to be pleased. And that involves being verbal and knowing what you like.
> It’s like I like oral sex. So yes I’m going to grab his hair and hump his face because it feels great. It turns me on when my partner is turned on, so yes I want to have phone sex or video masterbate together. I like a man that knows what he likes and verbalized it. For example, look at me when you cum, say my name, turn on your back. Or whatever. I’m the same way. To me, it’s not kinky it’s active participation.
> With Tom, it was hard to spice things up. He was always stressed out with work, and we only had sex once a week. I tried initiating and it didn’t go anywhere. The only thing he liked was lingerie, and stockings but that just got him in the mood it didn’t change how he was during sex.
> 
> The other thing I can’t stand is when someone talks about their past partners sex life negatively. He said all this mean stuff about his ex and how she smells bad and it just upset me because I don’t think that should be shared. And it makes me want to open up less with him bc god forbid something embarrassing happened or whatever I don’t want him to talk about it with other people. That’s a big no no to me.


This all makes sense. But again I don't think Tom i the kind of guy that wants more and can't get his wife to be into it, it sounds like YOU are the type to want more. So I am not sure this fits in with the people who end up in this situation, it more like you ended up in the situation like they did. But please don't take that to mean that I don't think this is a good post or that maybe someone else would see it differently. If anything I am just trying to continue the dialog. Maybe the lesson is not to allow yourself to end up in this situation. 

The "talking about past lovers" thing kind of touches on what I said in my other post about feeling safe. Feeling comfortable and safe is really the bedrock of a good sex life and should be the first and one of the most important things you try to establish. 

You like the phone sex, but others may like to be teased where leaving them wanting more in person is a big turn on. My only point is it's kind of like communication as long as you are working on it always trying to find ways to better communicate it should be getting better. It's when someone stops listening or trying that is the problem.


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## Girl_power

sokillme said:


> This all makes sense. But again I don't think Tom i the kind of guy that wants more and can't get his wife to be into it, it sounds like YOU are the type to want more. So I am not sure this fits in with the people who end up in this situation, it more like you ended up in the situation like they did. Maybe the lesson is not to allow yourself to end up in this situation.
> 
> The talking thing kind of touches on what I said in my other post about feeling safe. Feeling comfortable and safe is really the bedrock of a good sex life.
> 
> You like the phone sex, but others may like to be teased where leaving them wanting more in person is a big turn on. My only point is it's kind of like communication as long as you are working on it always trying to find ways to better communicate it should be getting better. It's when someone stops listening or trying that is the problem.




Correct. Tom doesn’t want more. Tom is easily pleased, and easily made happy. That’s good and bad. In my experience people who are easily happy are lazy because they don’t understand the needs/wants of others, or they don’t grasp the importance of certain things. 

But I think If you were to ask Tom If he would want phone sex and all the things I like he would say hell yes. But those are just words. I mean Who knows, maybe he would like it, but he didn’t make me comfortable enough to try or suggest it. He’s the type of person who would laugh if I said something sexy during sex. Probably because he doesn’t think it’s sexy or he’s uncomfortable. But again, the porn he watches I’m sure they say stuff all the time, and I’m sure he would verbally say he would like it. 

There is this thing with some men... they chase and chase and chase and when they catch what they have been chasing they don’t know what to do with it. My point is, he talks a big game On what he says he likes or says he would hypothetically like. And then you give him the go and it’s a deer in the headlights.


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## JustTheWife

I think I understand what the OP is saying.

I'm more submissive (passive, if you wish). On another thread, someone used the description "Rag Doll" which is probably pretty close to me. But I've always been up for just about anything. I like the guy to be in charge of me and by (my) definition, you go with it when someone else is in charge.

Anyway, what resonates with me in this post is how you talk about the "disgusting perverts". Many of the guys I was with were like this. Just wanted to do more and more and have me do more and more. Go right to the limits and then push them. It's like they take you where you never thought you'd go and certainly never WANT to go. But you do.

I know most of these guys were just users and doing it to satisfy their own kinks or whatever but regardless of that, it makes you feel wanted. Like they get so wrapped up in having sex with you.

The last thing you said is probably the most interesting. You feeling that Tom was doing things to please you while the other two (kinkier ones) just did it to enjoy themselves. I TOTALLY get that. It is SO much hotter when guys appear to be doing things to please themselves. I once had sex with a guy who, before he went down on me, said "I'm going to make you feel so good". Ugghh. Noooooooo. That was kind of a turn off for me. I had to pretend that I didn't hear that but you can't unhear it LOL. I suspect that a lot of women would say that they are not like this but who knows maybe there are a lot of us like me and the OP. But if you do meet one of us, I guess the lesson is to just think of yourself and that will take us where we want to be. For me, the best sex partner is one who knows what he wants and goes for it. Not one that is focused on my needs. Yeah, that sounds counter-intuitive but hey, maybe I'm weird. If it sounds too weird, just think about where it intersects. There are BAD partners who only think of themselves but for me the BEST partners only think of themselves. Just "ignoring" my needs is certainly not all it takes. Exactly as the OP says, when they are genuinely getting freaky without it feeling like they are just doing things for you, it feels like they are sooo into having sex with YOU. So just go for it and don't worry about me. If you're really into what you're doing, it will be amazing for me.


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## Girl_power

JustTheWife said:


> I think I understand what the OP is saying.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm more submissive (passive, if you wish). On another thread, someone used the description "Rag Doll" which is probably pretty close to me. But I've always been up for just about anything. I like the guy to be in charge of me and by (my) definition, you go with it when someone else is in charge.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, what resonates with me in this post is how you talk about the "disgusting perverts". Many of the guys I was with were like this. Just wanted to do more and more and have me do more and more. Go right to the limits and then push them. It's like they take you where you never thought you'd go and certainly never WANT to go. But you do.
> 
> 
> 
> I know most of these guys were just users and doing it to satisfy their own kinks or whatever but regardless of that, it makes you feel wanted. Like they get so wrapped up in having sex with you.
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing you said is probably the most interesting. You feeling that Tom was doing things to please you while the other two (kinkier ones) just did it to enjoy themselves. I TOTALLY get that. It is SO much hotter when guys appear to be doing things to please themselves. I once had sex with a guy who, before he went down on me, said "I'm going to make you feel so good". Ugghh. Noooooooo. That was kind of a turn off for me. I had to pretend that I didn't hear that but you can't unhear it LOL. I suspect that a lot of women would say that they are not like this but who knows maybe there are a lot of us like me and the OP. But if you do meet one of us, I guess the lesson is to just think of yourself and that will take us where we want to be. For me, the best sex partner is one who knows what he wants and goes for it. Not one that is focused on my needs. Yeah, that sounds counter-intuitive but hey, maybe I'm weird. If it sounds too weird, just think about where it intersects. There are BAD partners who only think of themselves but for me the BEST partners only think of themselves. Just "ignoring" my needs is certainly not all it takes. Exactly as the OP says, when they are genuinely getting freaky without it feeling like they are just doing things for you, it feels like they are sooo into having sex with YOU. So just go for it and don't worry about me. If you're really into what you're doing, it will be amazing for me.




In my opinion your “kink” is to see your partner being pleased. I think that’s awesome. There is nothing better in the world than seeing your partner having pleasure from you. And I’m sure you know that he probably would love nothing more than for you to be pleased as well. 


I’m glad you mentioned the disgusting pervert part and men just using women to push their limits. This never occurred to me because I have such a strong personality (even though I enjoy being submissive), I have very hard boundaries that I won’t cross. It’s just like when mark told me to finger my butt... ah hell no. Next.

I can see how things can go bad. But I think it’s important not to be a push over, to know your boundaries, to be confident enough to say stop or no, and to advocate for yourself. 

People, especially women need to be a active participant in their sex life and In their life In general. There was a feminist book called yes means yes. I loved it bc we always talk about no means no, but women need to be active participants because by not speaking up, we are giving mixed signals. Oh I didn’t really want to do that, but I wanted to make him happy or whatever is bull crap. And no man I wants to do something that their wife doesn’t want to be done to her, so speak up women! Men aren’t mind readers. And when we talk about pushing the boundary... I’m a very black and white thinker so I don’t really get that. I see a boundary as a line. Period. Also, just because I do certain things doesn’t mean I always want to do them. If I don’t feel like doing something I won’t do it.


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## ConanHub

Thanks for your perspective @Girl_power

I agree with your points and I also know that every couple dynamic is slightly unique with things that might come easier with different partners.

Different chemistry leads to becoming comfortable with different sex for different partners.

I honestly don't care what a woman has done for a previous partner, even if she loved it, as long as we are both having fun and fulfillment with each other in our own dynamic.


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## uhtred

@Girl_power, your post completely makes sense, but I think it is also exactly what some me fear: that they are mediocre lovers, not the hot men you had before.

I've got no suggestions, and your honestly is great, but I assume you can also tell how it would feel to the last guy. As a highly sexual person, its difficult to imagine not being very sexual and having no way to fix that. 

(btw, while I have a wide range of issues, this is not one of mine).


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## MJJEAN

Why I did it with him and not you.

In my real world experience, the answer to this question is usually "Because I was/am more attracted to him and he had skills, so I _wanted_ to do it with him."


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## Girl_power

MJJEAN said:


> Why I did it with him and not you.
> 
> In my real world experience, the answer to this question is usually "Because I was/am more attracted to him and he had skills, so I _wanted_ to do it with him."




Why be with someone then that you aren’t attracted to?


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## oldtruck

MJJEAN said:


> Why I did it with him and not you.
> 
> In my real world experience, the answer to this question is usually "Because I was/am more attracted to him and he had skills, so I _wanted_ to do it with him."





Girl_power said:


> Why be with someone then that you aren’t attracted to?


my thought too.

I have to ask is how many times did you do it with mr just ok?


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## MJJEAN

Girl_power said:


> Why be with someone then that you aren’t attracted to?


For the answer to that question ask the 1000's of men and women married to people they aren't sexually attracted to. Usually, the answer is something along the lines of "But s/he's perfect in every other way!" or "We love each other and are so compatible on every other level!" 

I didn't say wasn't attracted, I said _more_ attracted. Distinct difference. For me, at least, sexual attraction isn't a simple yes-no. There are levels of attraction from neutral to highly attracted and everything in between. With men I am highly attracted to I will naturally be more into the sex and will desire all the naughty things. With someone I am, say, moderately attracted to I am naturally going to be less fired up and be less interested in going beyond vanilla.


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## Lila

It makes sense that people will be much more open/comfortable in situations where there is less insecurity. The higher the level of compatibility, the less unknowns, the higher the feelings of security, the freer we feel we can be ourselves and not fail (however we define that). 

Tom was not sexually compatible to you so there were lots of unknowns and lots of insecurity. I don't think there is anything Tom could have done to fix this. 

Personally, I think sexual compatibility is either there or it's not. This is one of those things that can't be taught.


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## ConanHub

Girl_power said:


> Why be with someone then that you aren’t attracted to?


There are levels.

She might have been with a really hot lover but it didn't work out for whatever reason outside of the bedroom.

She moves on and finds a man she is attracted to but he isn't at the hot level of her previous lover. It might be difficult to find someone that hot again or at least someone she could make a life with.

I'm also playing devil's advocate here because I know people can get hotter even if they might not be the superstars that others are naturally.

If two people want it to get good in the sack, it will get good.

There are some people that are simply molten but not necessarily a good long term mate.


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## RebuildingMe

Girl, thanks for posting your thoughts. I appreciate the sexual insight from the female point of view. Especially since it’s been over a decade since I last dated. I have some preferences, but matching bra and panties is not one of them. I lol reading that!


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## samyeagar

I think this is a great example of the different perspectives not understanding what the other is actually saying. As insightful as this is, this is not really an explanation for the actual "you did it for him, but not for me" situation.

A closer analog would be if Tom had said he wouldn't do it for you because he hated oral, or that he wasn't really into oral, and didn't like it with his ex wife, or you just picked up on him not being really into it, and so you take it off the table because you were understanding and didn't want him to be doing something he didn't really enjoy specifically and exclusively for your pleasure. And then some time later, you find out that not only did he love it with his ex, and did it all the time, and actively and enthusiastically pursued oral on her, and by all accounts he was amazing at it, her vagina was better than unicorns and puppies.

Perhaps a better way to frame the question, more accurate to what is actually being asked is "what do their other lovers have that I don't?"


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## ConanHub

samyeagar said:


> I think this is a great example of the different perspectives not understanding what the other is actually saying. As insightful as this is, this is not really an explanation for the actual "you did it for him, but not for me" situation.
> 
> A closer analog would be if Tom had said he wouldn't do it for you because he hated oral, or that he wasn't really into oral, and didn't like it with his ex wife, or you just picked up on him not being really into it, and so you take it off the table because you were understanding and didn't want him to be doing something he didn't really enjoy specifically and exclusively for your pleasure. And then some time later, you find out that not only did he love it with his ex, and did it all the time, and actively and enthusiastically pursued oral on her, and by all accounts he was amazing at it, her vagina was better than unicorns and puppies.
> 
> Perhaps a better way to frame the question, more accurate to what is actually being asked is "what do their other lovers have that I don't?"


If you find someone hotter than someone else, it is just easier to get worked up for all kinds of action. That is a pretty stark reality.

It is also maybe more prevalent among the less mature?

There isn't much I wouldn't do for a partner to blow her mind but when I was younger, I experienced some situations like this.

I was involved with a wonderful woman who was taller than Uma and just as hot with bigger, nicer, breasts. I actually really cared about her. Due to immaturity, I left her for a belly dancer who was crazy hot.

Sex with the Amazon was wonderful and nicely erotic but I never went down on her.

Sex with the belly dancer was off the charts hot and I did things with her that I never did with anyone before including oral.

I didn't perform oral sex again for anyone until I met Mrs. Conan and she had to ask and teach me how to perfect it.

I'm a lot more grown up now and would do anything I have done in the past with a current lover.

I honestly don't personally understand doing differently unless there is some health issue associated with a certain sex act.


----------



## ReformedHubby

MJJEAN said:


> *I didn't say wasn't attracted, I said more attracted. Distinct difference. For me, at least, sexual attraction isn't a simple yes-no. There are levels of attraction from neutral to highly attracted and everything in between. With men I am highly attracted to I will naturally be more into the sex and will desire all the naughty things. With someone I am, say, moderately attracted to I am naturally going to be less fired up and be less interested in going beyond vanilla.*


Thank you for saying this. Sexual chemistry is just weird that way. I honestly thing having two different partners doing the exact same thing to you will evoke a different reaction if you're more attracted to one than the other.


----------



## Buddy400

samyeagar said:


> I think this is a great example of the different perspectives not understanding what the other is actually saying. As insightful as this is, this is not really an explanation for the actual "you did it for him, but not for me" situation.
> 
> A closer analog would be if Tom had said he wouldn't do it for you because he hated oral, or that he wasn't really into oral, and didn't like it with his ex wife, or you just picked up on him not being really into it, and so you take it off the table because you were understanding and didn't want him to be doing something he didn't really enjoy specifically and exclusively for your pleasure. And then some time later, you find out that not only did he love it with his ex, and did it all the time, and actively and enthusiastically pursued oral on her, and by all accounts he was amazing at it, her vagina was better than unicorns and puppies.
> 
> Perhaps a better way to frame the question, more accurate to what is actually being asked is "what do their other lovers have that I don't?"


Agreed, this is about three different things:

For the OP, it just doesn't seem that he wanted what other guys got. I don't see this as the classic "you did it for him but not for me" situation. If I don't WANT anal sex, then it doesn't matter if my wife will or won't do it with me (although she DID offer it, which matters). 

The @MJJEAN situation is pretty much what we're talking about and pretty much what many guys fear. She did it for HIM because HE was a better lover and she was more attracted.

Nothing wrong with that. 

And there are plenty of good reasons for committing to someone who you're less attracted to. The important (often overlooked) thing is to make sure that your committed partner understands this and accepts it.

As far as:



JustTheWife said:


> I think I understand what the OP is saying.
> 
> I'm more submissive (passive, if you wish). On another thread, someone used the description "Rag Doll" which is probably pretty close to me. But I've always been up for just about anything. I like the guy to be in charge of me and by (my) definition, you go with it when someone else is in charge.
> 
> Anyway, what resonates with me in this post is how you talk about the "disgusting perverts". Many of the guys I was with were like this. Just wanted to do more and more and have me do more and more. Go right to the limits and then push them. It's like they take you where you never thought you'd go and certainly never WANT to go. But you do.
> 
> I know most of these guys were just users and doing it to satisfy their own kinks or whatever but regardless of that, it makes you feel wanted. Like they get so wrapped up in having sex with you.
> 
> The last thing you said is probably the most interesting. You feeling that Tom was doing things to please you while the other two (kinkier ones) just did it to enjoy themselves. I TOTALLY get that. It is SO much hotter when guys appear to be doing things to please themselves. I once had sex with a guy who, before he went down on me, said "I'm going to make you feel so good". Ugghh. Noooooooo. That was kind of a turn off for me. I had to pretend that I didn't hear that but you can't unhear it LOL. *I suspect that a lot of women would say that they are not like this but who knows maybe there are a lot of us like me *and the OP. But if you do meet one of us, I guess the lesson is to just think of yourself and that will take us where we want to be. For me, the best sex partner is one who knows what he wants and goes for it. Not one that is focused on my needs. Yeah, that sounds counter-intuitive but hey, maybe I'm weird. If it sounds too weird, just think about where it intersects. There are BAD partners who only think of themselves but for me the BEST partners only think of themselves. Just "ignoring" my needs is certainly not all it takes. Exactly as the OP says, when they are genuinely getting freaky without it feeling like they are just doing things for you, it feels like they are sooo into having sex with YOU. So just go for it and don't worry about me. If you're really into what you're doing, it will be amazing for me.


There are apparently many women whose sexuality works this way. Again, whatever floats one's boat is okay with me. 

But a couple of things of interest to me are...

I've read a lot lately about how, for many women, their desire is driven by the man's desire for them. Also, that there's often little connection between what drives their sexual desire and what actually gives them orgasms. 

I've also read that women can be uncomfortable with the focus being on satisfying them (which ties in perfectly with the above. But most of what I hear on TAM is about how if women have orgasms they'll love sex and how men need to focus on the women's pleasure more than their own. 

I know that the idea is that the man is dominant in the bedroom but not outside of it. Is this really likely? It would seem as though a guy who pursues only his own interests in the bedroom would tend to act the same outside of it or vice versa. Isn't a guy who is genuinely interested in his partner's happiness going to have a problem focusing only on his own desires when sex is involved? Doesn't this situation fit pretty neatly into the stereotype of women are more attracted to bad guys? (I'm not saying that they shouldn't be, just noting that this seems to add credence to the popular wisdom).

I know that the idea is that, as long as the woman feels "safe" then this okay, but I'm not so sure that women into this type of scenario only engage in it when in safe, trusted relationships. So, while "safe" may be a bonus, it doesn't seem to be a requirement. I also can imagine that situations that are "too safe" could lose some of the necessary edge. 

What about women who may be turned on with sex like this but don't realize it (or would rather they didn't)? My wife has fantasies along these lines and isn't entirely happy about it.

Of course, what men hear constantly is that we need to make sure that we know what our partner wants and yet, in many cases they seem to want us to ignore what they want and focus on what we want.

I know that there's a world of difference between a first meeting and a committed relationship. But, how does the transition from one to the other actually work?


----------



## Young at Heart

Girl_power said:


> I am not passive. But from my viewpoint it takes 2 to make sex great.
> Not to toot my own horn but I’m good in bed. Tom (third boyfriend), told me I was hands down the best sex he has ever had, and it’s not because I am skillful, it’s because I LOVE sex. In the beginning of the relationship the sex was awesome, but I didn’t realize it at the time but it was bc I was carrying it. He told me his ex use to tell him he has a low sex drive (he does). He also told me that he never once went down on his ex girlfriend of 6 years because she was unhygienic.
> 
> Anyway, jt isn’t the mans job and I didn’t mean for it to come across the way. *I think that when your with someone who is equally and genuinely enjoying sex, it makes you feel more comfortable, and you can enjoy it more.* It’s like you are allowed to feel comfortable in your own skin with your likes and dislikes because they are shared. With Tom, I wasn’t going to grab his head and shove him in my vagina when he went down on me bc I know he would be horrified. With my first two partners this was a normal occurrence.
> 
> This is not about being one genders fault. *It’s about sexual incompatibility. *And when your with someone who you are compatible with, it makes you feel more like yourself and less inhibited. Because at the end of the day, we don’t want to do something our partner doesn’t like, so we are inhibited.
> 
> Some people get grossed out Easy. Some people need every t crossed before they have sex. Some people don’t like bodily fluids. It is what it is, and although most of us can fake it in the beginning, the truth eventually comes out. Some people are good actors. And it’s not about “being turned on enough”. That’s offensive. *Why be with someone if your not turned on by them, especially during the dating part. People who say... well she doesn’t do it for you because you don’t turn her on is offensive and rude*. And chances are, she/he is done faking liking it.


Embedded within your post is the thought that people are incapable of sexually evolving. For some that may be the case, for others growth is possible.

In my perspective most people take sex and each sexual act way too seriously. The wild woman in you seems to like to just give it a whirl and see what happens. Tom seems to be concerned with his "performance." AKA performance anxiety.

You might want to figure out how to "play" with Tom in a non-threatening way at sex. He probably is capable of changing somewhat if you work with him and work on yourself. When my wife and I were in sex therapy, the ST suggested we share with each other the 3 best sex experiences of our lives and try to practice them with each other until our partner became our best sexual experience of our life. The idea is to bond and build your relationship throughout your marriage. But that takes work on the part of both and it takes the willingness to communicate and become emotionally vulnerable.

Good luck and thank you for sharing. You might talk to Tom about going to see a sex therapist so you can share some of your fantasies and desires. If he can become comfortable enough to open up, you might find out he is kinkier than you may have thought.


----------



## Casual Observer

RebuildingMe said:


> Girl, thanks for posting your thoughts. I appreciate the sexual insight from the female point of view. Especially since it’s been over a decade since I last dated. I have some preferences, but matching bra and panties is not one of them. I lol reading that!


Are you sure about that? I’d make the argument they’re matching if they’re missing.


----------



## JustTheWife

Girl_power said:


> In my opinion your “kink” is to see your partner being pleased. I think that’s awesome. There is nothing better in the world than seeing your partner having pleasure from you. And I’m sure you know that he probably would love nothing more than for you to be pleased as well.
> 
> 
> I’m glad you mentioned the disgusting pervert part and men just using women to push their limits. This never occurred to me because I have such a strong personality (even though I enjoy being submissive), I have very hard boundaries that I won’t cross. It’s just like when mark told me to finger my butt... ah hell no. Next.
> 
> I can see how things can go bad. But I think it’s important not to be a push over, to know your boundaries, to be confident enough to say stop or no, and to advocate for yourself.
> 
> People, especially women need to be a active participant in their sex life and In their life In general. There was a feminist book called yes means yes. I loved it bc we always talk about no means no, but women need to be active participants because by not speaking up, we are giving mixed signals. Oh I didn’t really want to do that, but I wanted to make him happy or whatever is bull crap. And no man I wants to do something that their wife doesn’t want to be done to her, so speak up women! Men aren’t mind readers. And when we talk about pushing the boundary... I’m a very black and white thinker so I don’t really get that. I see a boundary as a line. Period. Also, just because I do certain things doesn’t mean I always want to do them. If I don’t feel like doing something I won’t do it.


I think we're very different and that's Ok. It takes all kinds. I don't label myself as feminist or anti-feminist. I just am me. I'll speak up if I want to speak up. I'll look out for that book yes means yes but always talking about what I want and don't want is not really my thing. I'm introverted and i don't always want to be explaining things to guys or to be looked to actively engage in how things feel. Actually, i don't know if that's because i'm an introvert generally or just a sexual preference. I also don't see it as a flaw where I need to "learn to speak up". I don't want that. BTW, i'm not at all saying that I'm afraid to say "no" if it's really something that i don't want. Obviously that's not a good thing but that's not what i'm talking about. I interpret your point to be more about being on the front foot with communicating what you want and don't want with sex. Of course that can be a very good thing for some but it's just not for me. 

I'm not sure I can explain this in the right way but hopefully some people can understand. Sex has always been really intense emotionally for me. Being a very private and introverted person in real life, it's seriously "invasive" for me. Like an "invasion" of my space and of the "wall" that I keep around me. I'm a pretty sexual person and I had sex with a lot of guys before meeting my husband. But "opening up" and getting close to people, especially strangers, does not come easy for me. So part of my coping mechanism (if that's the right way to put it) is to keep very private even when I was doing the most intimate things. I could be naked and the walls that I normally have around me were completely torn away, completely exposed. But one thing that I kept private was my feelings. Very guarded. I just wanted the guy to be in charge of me. I don't want to be constantly giving feedback. I don't want to initiate things that "i want to do". I don't like dinner parties where you have to "engage" actively in conversation. During sex I don't want pressure to "engage" by giving all kinds of signals and verbal feedback, etc. Don't want it. While i'm exposed in every way physically, I want to keep the emotional walls up. Let me process it and feel what I feel privately. I would even hide when I had orgasms. I wanted those to just for me. Private. With these guys, I gave them all of my body but I want to keep my feelings to myself. Sometimes I would close my eyes and go into my own little world. Let him do what he wants and I'll enjoy it in my own private world where it's just me. i didn't do this but I always thought it would be great to wear a mask that I could hide behind. I don't think being an "active participant" is for everyone. i love to people watch. I observe. i don't want to "actively engage" in conversation much of the time. Why is that so wrong in sex?

I don't want to be constantly looked at for come kind of response. I'm not saying that I don't respond but I'd rather have the guy just focus on his own needs and not be focused on mine. If he's focused on mine, he'll be constantly looking at, interpreting, analyzing my response and feedback to everything. The OP talked about her past partners so that's what i'm talking about in terms of my preferences. obviously with my husband there is trust and it's different. I'm still private and still keep up some walls but nothing like what i'm talking about with random guys from the past.

I hope this makes sense and i'm sure some will say that there's something wrong with me that I should have worked on. Or that it sounds "sad". I'm just a private person. An introvert. That's how I am.


----------



## JustTheWife

Buddy400 said:


> There are apparently many women whose sexuality works this way. Again, whatever floats one's boat is okay with me.
> 
> But a couple of things of interest to me are...
> 
> I've read a lot lately about how, for many women, their desire is driven by the man's desire for them. Also, that there's often little connection between what drives their sexual desire and what actually gives them orgasms.
> 
> I've also read that women can be uncomfortable with the focus being on satisfying them (which ties in perfectly with the above. *But most of what I hear on TAM is about how if women have orgasms they'll love sex and how men need to focus on the women's pleasure more than their own. *
> 
> I know that the idea is that the man is dominant in the bedroom but not outside of it. Is this really likely? It would seem as though a guy who pursues only his own interests in the bedroom would tend to act the same outside of it or vice versa. Isn't a guy who is genuinely interested in his partner's happiness going to have a problem focusing only on his own desires when sex is involved? Doesn't this situation fit pretty neatly into the stereotype of women are more attracted to bad guys? (I'm not saying that they shouldn't be, just noting that this seems to add credence to the popular wisdom).
> 
> I know that the idea is that, as long as the woman feels "safe" then this okay, but I'm not so sure that women into this type of scenario only engage in it when in safe, trusted relationships. So, while "safe" may be a bonus, it doesn't seem to be a requirement. I also can imagine that situations that are "too safe" could lose some of the necessary edge.
> 
> What about women who may be turned on with sex like this but don't realize it (or would rather they didn't)? My wife has fantasies along these lines and isn't entirely happy about it.
> 
> Of course, what men hear constantly is that we need to make sure that we know what our partner wants and yet, in many cases they seem to want us to ignore what they want and focus on what we want.
> 
> I know that there's a world of difference between a first meeting and a committed relationship. But, how does the transition from one to the other actually work?


I can only speak for myself and I'll just say it directly - I don't need guys to focus on me and make pointed efforts to make me orgasm in order to orgasm. it happens easily for me. I have no idea what other women like or need to orgasm. I'm sure many women like guys to "work on them" with an objective of making them orgasm. Aligned with what I said in my last post, I don't want a guy making an effort to make me have an orgasm and then try to see if I am. Waiting for me to orgasm so he can feel like he did his job and gave me pleasure. Noooo. I HATE that. HATE it. If he's trying too hard, i'll just shut down anyway and I won't have an orgasm in that situation.


----------



## SunCMars

Lila said:


> It makes sense that people will be much more open/comfortable in situations where there is less insecurity. The higher the level of compatibility, the less unknowns, the higher the feelings of security, the freer we feel we can be ourselves and not fail (however we define that).
> 
> Tom was not sexually compatible to you so there were lots of unknowns and lots of insecurity. I don't think there is anything Tom could have done to fix this.
> 
> Personally, I think _sexual compatibility_ is either there or it's not. This is one of those things that can't be taught.


I would substitute _sexual chemistry_ for compatibility. 

It is more descriptive. 



L-


----------



## SunCMars

JustTheWife said:


> I can only speak for myself and I'll just say it directly - I don't need guys to focus on me and make pointed efforts to make me orgasm in order to orgasm. it happens easily for me. I have no idea what other women like or need to orgasm. I'm sure many women like guys to "work on them" with an objective of making them orgasm. Aligned with what I said in my last post, I don't want a guy making an effort to make me have an orgasm and then try to see if I am. Waiting for me to orgasm so he can feel like he did his job and gave me pleasure. Noooo. I HATE that. HATE it. If he's trying too hard, i'll just shut down anyway and I won't have an orgasm in that situation.


Aw, this is a shame.

Hmm. :frown2:

For men, there can be this 'mental orgasm' for them. 

Seeing their lady get off is such an added 'spurt' to a man's ego. :grin2:


----------



## ReformedHubby

Buddy400 said:


> And there are plenty of good reasons for committing to someone who you're less attracted to. The important (often overlooked) thing is to make sure that your committed partner understands this and accepts it.


I agree that there are many that commit to people that they are less attracted to than previous lovers, but I can't think of any scenario where that other person is told. It is often overlooked as you say. I suppose if you're like 30 to 40 years older than your partner you kind of know the deal, but I think most people don't know. I also wonder if they did know, would they even want to be in the relationship? Hey honey, "I love you but I'm nowhere near as turned on by you as Bob". Not sure most would choose to move forward knowing that.


----------



## Girl_power

oldtruck said:


> my thought too.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to ask is how many times did you do it with mr just ok?




We dated for 10 months... so probably 100xs.


----------



## Lila

SunCMars said:


> I would substitute _sexual chemistry_ for compatibility.
> 
> It is more descriptive. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
> 
> 
> 
> L-


Why do you feel that chemistry is more descriptive than compatibility? 

I associate chemistry with subjectiveness. It's all very wishy washy. Whereas compatibility is kind of objective. Two people either are compatible or they are not. 

I think chemistry gets someone to agree to sex. I think compatibility is what keeps them coming back for more.


----------



## Girl_power

SunCMars said:


> Aw, this is a shame.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. :frown2:
> 
> 
> 
> For men, there can be this 'mental orgasm' for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing their lady get off is such an added 'spurt' to a man's ego. :grin2:




I agree. And I am the same, I love seeing my partner orgasm. There is nothing better than an orgasm face.


----------



## samyeagar

ReformedHubby said:


> I agree that there are many that commit to people that they are less attracted to than previous lovers, but I can't think of any scenario where that other person is told. It is often overlooked as you say. I suppose if you're like 30 to 40 years older than your partner you kind of know the deal, but I think most people don't know. I also wonder if they did know, would they even want to be in the relationship? Hey honey, "I love you but I'm nowhere near as turned on by you as Bob". Not sure most would choose to move forward knowing that.


Of course the other person isn't told. They know exactly how the other person would feel, and it's not that they wouldn't want to hurt the other persons feelings so much as they wouldn't want to risk losing the benefits of the relationship.


----------



## Laurentium

JustTheWife said:


> While i'm exposed in every way physically, I want to keep the emotional walls up. Let me process it and feel what I feel privately. I would even hide when I had orgasms. I wanted those to just for me. Private. With these guys, I gave them all of my body but I want to keep my feelings to myself. Sometimes I would close my eyes and go into my own little world. Let him do what he wants and I'll enjoy it in my own private world where it's just me. ...


Yeah. I think I understand what you're saying, and if I understand right, this is the same as my ex wife, who wanted to be eyes closed, in her own world, during sex. I never felt there was any emotional connection there. Indeed, she could never talk about feelings at any time - I don't know whether that applies to you. She was a wonderful person, but we ended up divorced. 

Whether you would want to "work on" it would have to be 100% your decision.


----------



## JustTheWife

Laurentium said:


> Yeah. I think I understand what you're saying, and if I understand right, this is the same as my ex wife, who wanted to be eyes closed, in her own world, during sex. I never felt there was any emotional connection there. Indeed, she could never talk about feelings at any time - I don't know whether that applies to you. She was a wonderful person, but we ended up divorced.
> 
> Whether you would want to "work on" it would have to be 100% your decision.


I'm still a private person and not very "expressive" but, as I mentioned, I can lower my emotional walls with my husband. Not eliminated altogether but more open. Mostly I was talking about "just sex". i do try to connect more openly with my husband when we have sex. 

Some people don't open up about things very easily whether it's with sex or anything else. Other people are an open book. They walk into a room and everyone knows what they are thinking and feeling. nothing is left unsaid. A comment for everything.


----------



## StillSearching

Girl_power said:


> I like a man that knows what he likes and verbalized it. For example, look at me when you cum, say my name, turn on your back. Or whatever. I’m the same way. To me, it’s not kinky it’s active participation.


OH yeah! that's the ticket!


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> Why do you feel that chemistry is more descriptive than compatibility?
> 
> I associate chemistry with subjectiveness. It's all very wishy washy. Whereas compatibility is kind of objective. Two people either are compatible or they are not.
> 
> I think chemistry gets someone to agree to sex. I think compatibility is what keeps them coming back for more.


Not bad. I'll add that great chemistry definitely helps with compatibility most times and definitely doesn't hurt.:smile2:


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> Not bad. I'll add that great chemistry definitely helps with compatibility most times and definitely doesn't hurt.


Chemistry definitely can't hurt but I don't think it helps with compatibility. 

I have gone on dates where I felt amazing chemistry with the guy (laughing, flirting, touching). Unfortunately, we were no where near on the same page sexually speaking. Although they were sexy and fun, I didn't have sex with any of them. Just discussing our likes/dislikes and kissing/heavy petting told me everything I needed to know.


----------



## notmyjamie

I think the emotional connection during sex can make all the difference if you're dealing with an otherwise skilled lover. My current guy is very similar in bed to my first lover with 2 major differences. He is much more turned on by my pleasure. He can deal if for some reason I won't orgasm but he delights when I do and so he does all he can to make it happen. I'd be totally turned off by sulking. The last thing I want to do is stroke his ego in bed. Sometimes it's just not going to happen, I know this and I still thoroughly enjoy the sex so I don't want to be made to feel it was bad when I loved it. The more important difference is that he needs and makes that emotional connection very well. He told me once that he absolutely loves that I'll keep eye contact with him during sex. And apparently I smile a lot in a way I do not smile at any other time. He loves my "sex smile." He holds that eye contact very well as well. We "say" so much to each other even if we never speak out loud. 

For these two reasons I think I'd do just about anything he asked...or I'd at least give it a try. There are some exceptions but his connection to me makes me feel like I want to do nothing but make him feel good. I've been asked for certain things by other guys but I have said no. If this guy asked for those same things, I'd say yes and it's really just because of our connection.


----------



## SunCMars

Lila said:


> Why do you feel that chemistry is more descriptive than compatibility?
> 
> I associate chemistry with subjectiveness. It's all very wishy washy. Whereas compatibility is kind of objective. Two people either are compatible or they are not.
> 
> I think chemistry gets someone to agree to sex. I think compatibility is what keeps them coming back for more.


Chemistry is the basis for sexual compatibility. Without the chemistry, someone ain't getting any. At least, not for long.


General compatibility, obviously, requires a whole smatter of other likes/dislikes. 

Being generous, I concede that you win, 75% of this debate.
I take whatever you concede, back my way.

Any leftover battle-able can be saved for the next relationship topic. 



The Typist I-


----------



## SunCMars

Girl_power said:


> We dated for 10 months... so probably 100xs.


I have to ask, I must.

Are you trying to take @StarFires place?

With you trying to gain favor with all the horn toads on this Blog! ?

Starfires took her role, her title, seriously, too slurpy, methinks.

(Likely) few men here have any issues with this candor of yours.


The Typist I-


----------



## RebuildingMe

SunCMars said:


> Girl_power said:
> 
> 
> 
> We dated for 10 months... so probably 100xs.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to ask, I must.
> 
> Are you trying to take @StarFires place?
> 
> With you trying to gain favor with all the horn toads on this Blog! ?
> 
> Starfires took her role, her title, seriously, too slurpy, methinks.
> 
> (Likely) few men here have any issues with this candor of yours.
> 
> 
> The Typist I-
Click to expand...

Twice a week is hardly bragging while dating. Twice a week while married? Now I have a bridge to sell you.


----------



## Girl_power

RebuildingMe said:


> Twice a week is hardly bragging while dating. Twice a week while married? Now I have a bridge to sell you.




I can’t agree with you more. We didn’t have a lot of sex at all.


----------



## Lila

SunCMars said:


> Chemistry is the basis for sexual compatibility. Without the chemistry, someone ain't getting any. At least, not for long.
> 
> 
> General compatibility, obviously, requires a whole smatter of other likes/dislikes.
> 
> Being generous, I concede that you win, 75% of this debate.
> I take whatever you concede, back my way.
> 
> Any leftover battle-able can be saved for the next relationship topic.
> 
> 
> 
> The Typist I-


Lol. Wasn't trying to debate. I genuinely wanted to know why you felt chemistry was a better word and explained why I used compatibility.


----------



## StillSearching

Girl_power said:


> Why be with someone then that you aren’t attracted to?


Hypergamy


----------



## Girl_power

StillSearching said:


> Hypergamy




He looks happy


----------



## notmyjamie

StillSearching said:


> Hypergamy


and I just lost my Christmas appetite. Ugh, just ugh.


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> Chemistry definitely can't hurt but I don't think it helps with compatibility.
> 
> I have gone on dates where I felt amazing chemistry with the guy (laughing, flirting, touching). Unfortunately, we were no where near on the same page sexually speaking. Although they were sexy and fun, I didn't have sex with any of them. Just discussing our likes/dislikes and kissing/heavy petting told me everything I needed to know.


I get it now. I was thinking along other lines.:smile2:


----------



## ConanHub

notmyjamie said:


> and I just lost my Christmas appetite. Ugh, just ugh.


You're not the only one....:surprise:


----------



## SunCMars

notmyjamie said:


> and I just lost my Christmas appetite. Ugh, just ugh.


Why?

She seems pretty to me?


King Brian-


----------



## Livvie

That aren't commenting on her. They are commenting on him.


----------



## Girl_power

Livvie said:


> That aren't commenting on her. They are commenting on him.




Lmao


----------



## notmyjamie

Livvie said:


> That aren't commenting on her. They are commenting on him.


Truth be told I was commenting on both of them and not on their appearance. They are both willing to be in a completely shallow relationship and sell their souls to the devil for money or appearance sake. Yuck, just yuck. 

She comes off like a ***** to me and he comes off like a dirty old man. Blech.


----------



## Girl_power

notmyjamie said:


> Truth be told I was commenting on both of them and not on their appearance. They are both willing to be in a completely shallow relationship and sell their souls to the devil for money or appearance sake. Yuck, just yuck.
> 
> 
> 
> She comes off like a ***** to me and he comes off like a dirty old man. Blech.




She comes off like a what? A loose women? And that grosses you out? Yet millions of people watch porn and don’t think anything of it.


----------



## samyeagar

Girl_power said:


> She comes off like a what? A loose women? And that grosses you out? Yet millions of people watch porn and don’t think anything of it.


And the wheels on the bus go round and round...

then fall off


----------



## Casual Observer

JustTheWife said:


> I don't want to be constantly looked at for come kind of response. I'm not saying that I don't respond but I'd rather have the guy just focus on his own needs and not be focused on mine. If he's focused on mine, he'll be constantly looking at, interpreting, analyzing my response and feedback to everything.


There's a Star Trek line that might be appropriate here.

What you want is irrelevant. What you have chosen is at hand.

When we marry, if you can't compromise and, especially in sex, offer your partner something that they are looking for, you're not going to have a healthy sex life. And vice versa, of course. In your case, your husband may be looking for cues that would allow him to be the sexual person he might actually want to be. You may be making assumptions about his adventurousness (or lack thereof) that stem from you being relatively emotionless (I say "relatively" not completely) during sex.

You actually have an opportunity here. You can work on something that you shared with no other man before. That's could be a big thing for you maybe? And then it becomes... why you did this with your husband and not any of the guys before. Turn this thread upside-down.


----------



## MaiChi

Could someone patient please let me know what "Normal Sex " is, and whether that implies that there is also abnormal sex?
Thanks


----------



## RebuildingMe

MaiChi said:


> Could someone patient please let me know what "Normal Sex " is, and whether that implies that there is also abnormal sex?
> Thanks


Nope. There is normal sex and then there is great, mind blowing, freaky, walls completely down, girlfriend sex. If you have to ask, you’re probably having normal sex, durning a normal time of the day, the normal number of times per month, etc.


----------



## JustTheWife

Casual Observer said:


> There's a Star Trek line that might be appropriate here.
> 
> What you want is irrelevant. What you have chosen is at hand.
> 
> When we marry, if you can't compromise and, especially in sex, offer your partner something that they are looking for, you're not going to have a healthy sex life. And vice versa, of course. In your case, your husband may be looking for cues that would allow him to be the sexual person he might actually want to be. You may be making assumptions about his adventurousness (or lack thereof) that stem from you being relatively emotionless (I say "relatively" not completely) during sex.
> 
> You actually have an opportunity here. You can work on something that you shared with no other man before. That's could be a big thing for you maybe? And then it becomes... why you did this with your husband and not any of the guys before. Turn this thread upside-down.


I'm a Star Trek nerd so how appropriate! This response is not just for this post but for others too.

This is complicated and very hard to explain accurately. I'm afraid everyone is just interpreting this as that I am emotionless (even though you say relatively and not completely). It's not just a spectrum of no emotion and lots of emotion. I have A LOT of emotion when I have sex (with my husband now and other partners before him). All kinds of emotions. I'm quiet and introverted so I focus on perceiving and feeling more than many other people. I notice things and feel things that others may not. Some people just constantly radiate their thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc outward but they don't receive. I "receive" acutely and things impact me more than other people. With extroverts, sometimes their constantly radiating outward channel is at the expense of the inward channel (perceiving, processing, feeling, etc). I'm a very sensitive person. So having sexual intercourse is a huge thing for me, even when i was promiscuous. I'm not like some emotionally numb person!

I have a different way of showing emotion and feelings. I'm quiet. I'm subtle. Most guys that i've had casual sex with and boyfriends were incapable of perceiving my feelings or emotions or what was going on in my head. That's OK. I don't want them analyzing me anyway. To use a simplistic and dumb example, I'm not going to be shouting "I'm cumming". Sorry that's just not me. I'm going to clench my fingers tightly around whatever is closest and close my eyes and go into my private world of my own. You can say that there is nothing better than "sharing" your orgasm but what if I don't want to? Again, that's just a dumb example to make the point that I don't care to be "expressive" like that.

Sex is very "invasive" especially for me as a sensitive woman. You are sharing (or giving away) a lot of yourself. I was usually open to do whatever physically but being expressive with it all and opening up emotionally or talking about it, or describing what I like and want, etc is not what I want to do. I want to protect that and keep it to myself To those who say that I should be opening up and being expressive, I'd ask why I can't just share what i want and keep what i want to myself? If I was saying that I didn't want to do something physical like sucking on it or whatever, everyone would be in total agreement that I just shouldn't do it if I didn't want to open up to that physical act. Nobody probably would be trying to convince me that it would be better if I did it. *We've grown to recognize that physical boundaries should be respected 100% but what about emotional boundaries or boundaries around different non-physical (emotional, etc) aspects of sex you want to open up to or share?*


----------



## Mr.Married

.....

Edited: I was being too much of a smart a$$ and unhelpful


----------



## ConanHub

Casual Observer said:


> There's a Star Trek line that might be appropriate here.
> 
> What you want is irrelevant. What you have chosen is at hand.
> 
> When we marry, if you can't compromise and, especially in sex, offer your partner something that they are looking for, you're not going to have a healthy sex life. And vice versa, of course. In your case, your husband may be looking for cues that would allow him to be the sexual person he might actually want to be. You may be making assumptions about his adventurousness (or lack thereof) that stem from you being relatively emotionless (I say "relatively" not completely) during sex.
> 
> You actually have an opportunity here. You can work on something that you shared with no other man before. That's could be a big thing for you maybe? And then it becomes... why you did this with your husband and not any of the guys before. Turn this thread upside-down.


I like your logic!:smile2:


----------



## Girl_power

JustTheWife said:


> I'm a Star Trek nerd so how appropriate! This response is not just for this post but for others too.
> 
> 
> 
> This is complicated and very hard to explain accurately. I'm afraid everyone is just interpreting this as that I am emotionless (even though you say relatively and not completely). It's not just a spectrum of no emotion and lots of emotion. I have A LOT of emotion when I have sex (with my husband now and other partners before him). All kinds of emotions. I'm quiet and introverted so I focus on perceiving and feeling more than many other people. I notice things and feel things that others may not. Some people just constantly radiate their thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc outward but they don't receive. I "receive" acutely and things impact me more than other people. With extroverts, sometimes their constantly radiating outward channel is at the expense of the inward channel (perceiving, processing, feeling, etc). I'm a very sensitive person. So having sexual intercourse is a huge thing for me, even when i was promiscuous. I'm not like some emotionally numb person!
> 
> 
> 
> I have a different way of showing emotion and feelings. I'm quiet. I'm subtle. Most guys that i've had casual sex with and boyfriends were incapable of perceiving my feelings or emotions or what was going on in my head. That's OK. I don't want them analyzing me anyway. To use a simplistic and dumb example, I'm not going to be shouting "I'm cumming". Sorry that's just not me. I'm going to clench my fingers tightly around whatever is closest and close my eyes and go into my private world of my own. You can say that there is nothing better than "sharing" your orgasm but what if I don't want to? Again, that's just a dumb example to make the point that I don't care to be "expressive" like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sex is very "invasive" especially for me as a sensitive woman. You are sharing (or giving away) a lot of yourself. I was usually open to do whatever physically but being expressive with it all and opening up emotionally or talking about it, or describing what I like and want, etc is not what I want to do. I want to protect that and keep it to myself To those who say that I should be opening up and being expressive, I'd ask why I can't just share what i want and keep what i want to myself? If I was saying that I didn't want to do something physical like sucking on it or whatever, everyone would be in total agreement that I just shouldn't do it if I didn't want to open up to that physical act. Nobody probably would be trying to convince me that it would be better if I did it. *We've grown to recognize that physical boundaries should be respected 100% but what about emotional boundaries or boundaries around different non-physical (emotional, etc) aspects of sex you want to open up to or share?*




Everyone is different. And if you and yours husband are happy with each other that’s all that really matters. 

I like that you compare physical and emotional boundaries. I think that we need to have our hard line boundaries... whether it not be doing something physical or emotional. But I also think that it’s important to open yourself up to your spouse and try new and different things (as long as they are not a boundary).

Just speaking for myself, and my personal issues and blah blah, I need to connect emotionally and personally in the bedroom. Actually let me change that... I need to FEEL a connection from my partner during sex. And this is very different. I am sensitive and emotional and I couldn’t have sex without feeling like I was connecting, but for some reason (deep seated issues), I NEED certain things from my partner to make me feel like he is connecting, and not just having sex with a body but having sex with ME if that makes sense. 

I totally understand where your coming from. But if I put myself in your husbands place I would have a problem with it. Good thing I’m not your husband, and I know it doesn’t matter the point I’m making. I’m just speaking to you from a different perspective.


----------



## Girl_power

My ex boyfriend Tom (third guy) was not emotional. And he told me he was taught not to show emotion, and it was just really hard for him to express his feelings. 
That was really hard for me because I need to FEEL loved, and I need to feel a connection with him and I honestly don’t know how people do that without sharing feelings and emotions. 
And that lack of emotion translated in the bedroom. I don’t always need to have wild sex, but I just need some emotion al connection from him. And to me, that can be stepping back, and really looking at the person and enjoying them.


----------



## Girl_power

And with mark, he was very good at showing his feelings and emotions and that translated to the bedroom.


----------



## Casual Observer

Girl_power said:


> My ex boyfriend Tom (third guy) was not emotional. And he told me he was taught not to show emotion, and it was just really hard for him to express his feelings.
> That was really hard for me because I need to FEEL loved, and I need to feel a connection with him and I honestly don’t know how people do that without sharing feelings and emotions.
> And that lack of emotion translated in the bedroom. I don’t always need to have wild sex, but I just need some emotion al connection from him. And to me, that can be stepping back, and really looking at the person and enjoying them.


I think what you're describing is much tougher to understand than most realize. The connection we need (you and I and maybe @JustTheWife 's husband) pretty much requires some outward, perhaps you could say extroverted, feedback. Just as some of us have partners who would get turned off by dirty talk during sex, and so even if that's your thing you still find a way to adapt and enjoy sex with that person, there are many (I suspect a great many) of "us" that would absolutely die for the type of connection during sex where our partner is openly expressing his or her thoughts, a variation of the "I'm cumming!" that someone mentioned. 

The curled toes, the digging fingers into your back, that's something some of us will connect with, but not all. Consider it almost as the "Words of affirmation" in the 5 Love Languages. Maybe that's precisely it? We need verbal feedback, and the type of verbal feedback needed during sex would definitely play to the extrovert. 

If, in everything else aside from sex, we see credibility to the 5 Love Languages, why do we stop at sex, the most intimate shared moment of all?


----------



## JustTheWife

Girl_power said:


> Everyone is different. And if you and yours husband are happy with each other that’s all that really matters.
> 
> I like that you compare physical and emotional boundaries. I think that we need to have our hard line boundaries... whether it not be doing something physical or emotional. But I also think that it’s important to open yourself up to your spouse and try new and different things (as long as they are not a boundary).
> 
> Just speaking for myself, and my personal issues and blah blah, I need to connect emotionally and personally in the bedroom. Actually let me change that... I need to FEEL a connection from my partner during sex. And this is very different. I am sensitive and emotional and I couldn’t have sex without feeling like I was connecting, but for some reason (deep seated issues), I NEED certain things from my partner to make me feel like he is connecting, and not just having sex with a body but having sex with ME if that makes sense.
> 
> I totally understand where your coming from. But if I put myself in your husbands place I would have a problem with it. Good thing I’m not your husband, and I know it doesn’t matter the point I’m making. I’m just speaking to you from a different perspective.


If you're looking at this from my husband's or my past partners' perspectives, you should recognize that people need and want different levels of emotional connection AND different things make people connect emotionally with other people. It's a mistake to think that because I'm quiet and I don't blab blab blab about my wants, desires, needs, likes, dislikes, etc that nobody can connect emotionally with me. I'm sorry I don't mean that like it probably sounds but I feel like I'm being misunderstood as emotionless and clammed up. Or like a "starfish" to borrow from another thread.

I see nothing wrong with someone who is very expressive when they have sex with someone. I'm just not that person. It takes me a while to open up emotionally and I'll never be blab blab blab about my wants and needs sexually. I don't even want that and I'm not going to force myself to be like that. You say that you're happy that I have boundaries but already you judge that you would have a problem with someone like me. If someone wants to connect emotionally with me then there's no reason they can't. Do you have any friends that are introverts? Some say that we make the very best friends because behind our quiet facades, there can be a lot of strong emotional intimacy and connection that you may not get from people who are much more expressive generally.


----------



## Casual Observer

JustTheWife said:


> If you're looking at this from my husband's or my past partners' perspectives, you should recognize that people need and want different levels of emotional connection AND different things make people connect emotionally with other people. It's a mistake to think that because I'm quiet and I don't blab blab blab about my wants, desires, needs, likes, dislikes, etc that nobody can connect emotionally with me. I'm sorry I don't mean that like it probably sounds but I feel like I'm being misunderstood as emotionless and clammed up. Or like a "starfish" to borrow from another thread.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with someone who is very expressive when they have sex with someone. I'm just not that person. It takes me a while to open up emotionally and I'll never be blab blab blab about my wants and needs sexually. I don't even want that and I'm not going to force myself to be like that. You say that you're happy that I have boundaries but already you judge that you would have a problem with someone like me. If someone wants to connect emotionally with me then there's no reason they can't. Do you have any friends that are introverts? Some say that we make the very best friends because behind our quiet facades, there can be a lot of strong emotional intimacy and connection that you may not get from people who are much more expressive generally.


To be fair, you should be taking me to task as well...

I'd be interested in why you think the 5 Love Languages don't apply to sex? Or maybe it's the case you feel they do apply and you are offering your husband what he needs sexually?


----------



## Girl_power

JustTheWife said:


> If you're looking at this from my husband's or my past partners' perspectives, you should recognize that people need and want different levels of emotional connection AND different things make people connect emotionally with other people. It's a mistake to think that because I'm quiet and I don't blab blab blab about my wants, desires, needs, likes, dislikes, etc that nobody can connect emotionally with me. I'm sorry I don't mean that like it probably sounds but I feel like I'm being misunderstood as emotionless and clammed up. Or like a "starfish" to borrow from another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> I see nothing wrong with someone who is very expressive when they have sex with someone. I'm just not that person. It takes me a while to open up emotionally and I'll never be blab blab blab about my wants and needs sexually. I don't even want that and I'm not going to force myself to be like that. You say that you're happy that I have boundaries but already you judge that you would have a problem with someone like me. If someone wants to connect emotionally with me then there's no reason they can't. Do you have any friends that are introverts? Some say that we make the very best friends because behind our quiet facades, there can be a lot of strong emotional intimacy and connection that you may not get from people who are much more expressive generally.




I didn’t mean to offend you. And I was not trying to speak for your husbands perspective. I was saying If I, key word is I, were your husband. I am not attacking you. I was just offering a different perspective to you. I love hearing other people’s perspective about me so I didn’t mean to upset you. I come on here to hear other people’s perspectives. Yes I know you didn’t ask for mine, so I’m sorry I gave it. 

And I am not an extrovert. I am on the spectrum and I have a hard time reading social cues and I am not comfortable in social situations. Everyone is different.


----------



## JustTheWife

Girl_power said:


> I didn’t mean to offend you. And I was not trying to speak for your husbands perspective. I was saying If I, key word is I, were your husband. I am not attacking you. I was just offering a different perspective to you. I love hearing other people’s perspective about me so I didn’t mean to upset you. I come on here to hear other people’s perspectives. Yes I know you didn’t ask for mine, so I’m sorry I gave it.
> 
> And I am not an extrovert. I am on the spectrum and I have a hard time reading social cues and I am not comfortable in social situations. Everyone is different.


No offense at all so don't worry. This is a discussion. Nothing personal.

i was a "cool girl". It was pretty easy to open me up physically. My point is simply that if someone came here trying to say what women should be doing physically to please men then everyone would (rightly) have issues with that. Some women are uncomfortable opening up physically. They don't want to give blowjobs or do different positions, etc. And we (rightly) say that they should only do what makes them happy. Nobody (rightly) acts like there is something wrong with them that they should correct to be a better partner.

Yet I come here and express that I'm not totally comfortable with certain emotionally related things like announcing when I'm cumming, always talking about what I want, what I need, what makes me cum, etc and everyone reacts like I have a problem that I need to work on. How is wanting to enjoy my orgasm more privately any different from any other things that a woman might want to do or not do. You mentioned that you were so repulsed by fingering your butt. I've done that for guys when they wanted me to do it and it was no big deal for me. But I'm certainly not going to act like there is something wrong with you for not wanting to do that and not agreeing to do that. Or that you should work on being open to that so that you can please him better!

Again, no offense taken at all. Just wondering why it's so different? Why are we so sensitive to physical boundaries but emotional boundaries are like defects that need to be overcome or fixed?


----------



## Girl_power

JustTheWife said:


> No offense at all so don't worry. This is a discussion. Nothing personal.
> 
> 
> 
> i was a "cool girl". It was pretty easy to open me up physically. My point is simply that if someone came here trying to say what women should be doing physically to please men then everyone would (rightly) have issues with that. Some women are uncomfortable opening up physically. They don't want to give blowjobs or do different positions, etc. And we (rightly) say that they should only do what makes them happy. Nobody (rightly) acts like there is something wrong with them that they should correct to be a better partner.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet I come here and express that I'm not totally comfortable with certain emotionally related things like announcing when I'm cumming, always talking about what I want, what I need, what makes me cum, etc and everyone reacts like I have a problem that I need to work on. How is wanting to enjoy my orgasm more privately any different from any other things that a woman might want to do or not do. You mentioned that you were so repulsed by fingering your butt. I've done that for guys when they wanted me to do it and it was no big deal for me. But I'm certainly not going to act like there is something wrong with you for not wanting to do that and not agreeing to do that. Or that you should work on being open to that so that you can please him better!
> 
> 
> 
> Again, no offense taken at all. Just wondering why it's so different? Why are we so sensitive to physical boundaries but emotional boundaries are like defects that need to be overcome or fixed?




Nobody said anything was wrong with you. Not one person.


----------



## Wolfman1968

MJJEAN said:


> I didn't say wasn't attracted, I said _more_ attracted. Distinct difference. For me, at least, sexual attraction isn't a simple yes-no. There are levels of attraction from neutral to highly attracted and everything in between. With men I am highly attracted to I will naturally be more into the sex and will desire all the naughty things. With someone I am, say, moderately attracted to I am naturally going to be less fired up and be less interested in going beyond vanilla.


Very honest.

Interestingly, several months back there was a thread where this line of thinking was denied (by a woman). A female poster was saying that things would be "off the table" with one guy that she was totally into with another and potentially would want to do again in the future, but claimed that had nothing to do with how attracted to she was to the guy. I still don't think her statements made sense. Your posting here makes more sense to me.


----------



## Wolfman1968

notmyjamie said:


> and I just lost my Christmas appetite. Ugh, just ugh.



That's Anna Nicole Smith, I think, and she said they were in love.

It had nothing to do with the fact that she was a 20 year old stripper with limited prospects, and he was a 90 year old billionaire. They were in love.

Would you doubt her?


----------



## frusdil

I'm like you @Girl_power, I've always had a high drive and I absolutely LOVE sex. On about our third date, my now husband and I were talking about his marriage and he was saying that their sex life was down to about once a month, and that by that stage he had absolutely no sexual attraction to her at all. I point blank was like "Yeah, no, that's nowhere near enough for me" bahahahaha. ETA - just for clarification, my post reads like he was married and having an affair with me when we met, that is NOT the case...he was legally separated, and she was living with another man when I met my husband. We were talking about the last couple of years of his marriage.

He says he loves how passionate I am, that I throw myself into it all with great gusto lol. I sometimes want to make love, I want to be submissive and he take charge sometimes and others I want to run the show. We work so well together I think because we both live to please the other, we're both very generous, giving lovers. I don't think he ever experienced that with his first wife, it was always mechanical, and almost duty like. She and I are polar opposites.

I don't think I could be with someone who didn't put in as much effort as I, you can't carry a relationship on your own after all.


----------



## Marduk

Casual Observer said:


> There's a Star Trek line that might be appropriate here.
> 
> What you want is irrelevant. What you have chosen is at hand.


I've always loved that quote, and you've nailed the context here.


----------



## Marduk

MaiChi said:


> Could someone patient please let me know what "Normal Sex " is, and whether that implies that there is also abnormal sex?
> Thanks


"Normal" sex is the stuff you wake up the next morning and smile about, "Abnormal" sex is the stuff you wake up the next morning and go "what the hell...?"

Then the "Abnormal" stuff becomes "Normal." Rinse and repeat.

It's like that old saying goes... "Don't worry, it only feels kinky the first time!"


----------



## notmyjamie

Girl_power said:


> She comes off like a what? A loose women? And that grosses you out? Yet millions of people watch porn and don’t think anything of it.


I was thinking she comes off like a prostitute..she's selling her body for money. And yes, that grosses me out. The idea of sleeping with anyone for anything other than an emotional connection grosses me out. I don't sleep around. I don't have one night stands. I have a very low partner count and all of them have been relationships with meaning to me. I get that other people may feel differently for themselves and that's fine, I feel they are entitled to live how they are comfortable with...but when you add in sleeping with a guy 50 years older than you so you can have access to his money, yes, that grosses me out. I'm sorry if that offends you.

How someone can **** a bunch of different guys with the camera rolling earning money as a porn star also grosses me out so at least I'm consistent. :grin2:


----------



## Girl_power

Wolfman1968 said:


> That's Anna Nicole Smith, I think, and she said they were in love.
> 
> 
> 
> It had nothing to do with the fact that she was a 20 year old stripper with limited prospects, and he was a 90 year old billionaire. They were in love.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you doubt her?




And I don’t doubt that he really was in love with her also...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Girl_power said:


> Everyone is different. And if you and yours husband are happy with each other that’s all that really matters.
> 
> I like that you compare physical and emotional boundaries. I think that we need to have our hard line boundaries... whether it not be doing something physical or emotional. But I also think that it’s important to open yourself up to your spouse and try new and different things (as long as they are not a boundary).
> 
> Just speaking for myself, and my personal issues and blah blah, I need to connect emotionally and personally in the bedroom. Actually let me change that... I need to FEEL a connection from my partner during sex. And this is very different. I am sensitive and emotional and I couldn’t have sex without feeling like I was connecting, but for some reason (deep seated issues), I NEED certain things from my partner to make me feel like he is connecting, and not just having sex with a body but having sex with ME​ if that makes sense.
> 
> I totally understand where your coming from. But if I put myself in your husbands place I would have a problem with it. Good thing I’m not your husband, and I know it doesn’t matter the point I’m making. I’m just speaking to you from a different perspective.


What things?

I know what you're saying, and it's good, thought we could get a list going, others might add too.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> I NEED certain things from my partner to make me feel like he is connecting, and not just having sex with a body but having sex with ME if that makes sense.


Makes total sense to me. I have heard this exact comment from my stbx countless times. I just couldn't give her the emotional investment she needed after her infidelity. In return, she couldn't give me the sex I needed. This is why I firmly believe that infidelity, one way or another, is such a deal breaker. I suppose that is not for this thread.


----------



## Marduk

Girl_power said:


> And I don’t doubt that he really was in love with her also...


Well, marriage had nothing to do with love for most of recorded human history. 

A love marriage is a recent phenomena.


----------



## Casual Observer

Marduk said:


> Well, marriage had nothing to do with love for most of recorded human history.
> 
> A love marriage is a recent phenomena.


And it seems to be true that a whole lot of people in arranged marriages did grow to love each other and have successful marriages. The only relevant point being, love can grow from nothing, even in random circumstances. But can love re-grow if it's previously died? If not, why not? Are we coded to give it just one shot, and once things head on a downward trajectory, it becomes increasingly difficult to recover? If so, then TAM's success rate for reconciliation may be worse than normal, because people don't typically come here until things are really bad.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Casual Observer said:


> And it seems to be true that a whole lot of people in arranged marriages did grow to love each other and have successful marriages. The only relevant point being, love can grow from nothing, even in random circumstances. But can love re-grow if it's previously died? If not, why not? Are we coded to give it just one shot, and once things head on a downward trajectory, it becomes increasingly difficult to recover? If so, then TAM's success rate for reconciliation may be worse than normal, because people don't typically come here until things are really bad.


I suspect this is true as long as the two are compatible. Selling one's daughter off to a bad match for money (which can and does happen) likely doesn't work our as well, but love can grow out of compatibility. Otoh, love can't create compatibility.

I know a number of Indian friends at work who are in arranged marriages and all are happy, but all have compatible spouses....ie reasonable age differences, similar backgrounds, similar education, etc.


----------



## Marduk

lifeistooshort said:


> I suspect this is true as long as the two are compatible. Selling one's daughter off to a bad match for money (which can and does happen) likely doesn't work our as well, but love can grow out of compatibility. Otoh, love can't create compatibility.
> 
> I know a number of Indian friends at work who are in arranged marriages and all are happy, but all have compatible spouses....ie reasonable age differences, similar backgrounds, similar education, etc.


I have a buddy that went through this - did the whole Indian parent set up thing. Went through various different 'matches' that were deemed incompatible for whatever reason. He didn't even get to meet the women. The kind of stuff was wild, including an astrological evaluation - and most women didn't meet whatever that standard was.

So finally they find the woman. He flies over, marries her. Discovers he actually loves her. After a few years with no babies, they get checked out, and for whatever reason they can't have kids together. 

So now the same parents that 'matched' them are now insisting on a divorce. The thing is, they're actually wildly in love, and have since abandoned both their families, and the most of their culture, and moved to the other side of Canada. They seem very happy. The families aren't.


----------



## ConanHub

Marduk said:


> I have a buddy that went through this - did the whole Indian parent set up thing. Went through various different 'matches' that were deemed incompatible for whatever reason. He didn't even get to meet the women. The kind of stuff was wild, including an astrological evaluation - and most women didn't meet whatever that standard was.
> 
> So finally they find the woman. He flies over, marries her. Discovers he actually loves her. After a few years with no babies, they get checked out, and for whatever reason they can't have kids together.
> 
> So now the same parents that 'matched' them are now insisting on a divorce. The thing is, they're actually wildly in love, and have since abandoned both their families, and the most of their culture, and moved to the other side of Canada. They seem very happy. The families aren't.


Hahahaha! Liked this one!:smile2:


----------



## MAJDEATH

To the OP, I think I can summarize your subject concept in just a few words: Different strokes for different folks. Some men made you feel like doing certain things, and other men made you feel like doing something else. I felt the same way about gift giving with previous relationships. Some ladies really appreciated the things I bought for them, and some just expected it. The first wedding ring my W received was worth about $500. The one she wears now is insured for nearly $20K. I didn't feel like she needed or wanted an expensive rock in the beginning. But she really appreciated the more expensive one later, after we went thru some trials/tribulations in my career and she stuck with me.


----------



## Yeswecan

Marduk said:


> They seem very happy. The families aren't.


When it comes to marriage, family happiness is secondary and really should not matter. The marriage always comes first. :smile2:


----------



## samyeagar

Yeswecan said:


> When it comes to marriage, family happiness is secondary and really should not matter. The marriage always comes first. :smile2:


Unless you are from a culture where it doesn't. Which includes most of the worlds current population, and almost all of human history.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Which, personally speaking only; is a crippling blow to marriages.


----------



## Yeswecan

samyeagar said:


> Unless you are from a culture where it doesn't. Which includes most of the worlds current population, and almost all of human history.


In your opinion is this a good or bad thing?


----------



## samyeagar

Yeswecan said:


> In your opinion is this a good or bad thing?


See, this is where things get kind of blurry. I only have my own personal perspective, so can only speak for myself, not generally. Personally, the marriage comes first, and I think that is a good thing, and I live in a society that supports that. However, I also realize that I am in a global and historical minority.


----------



## Laurentium

JustTheWife said:


> It's a mistake to think that because I'm quiet and I don't blab blab blab about my wants, desires, needs, likes, dislikes, etc that nobody can connect emotionally with me.


So how _would _you emotionally connect with your partner during sex?



JustTheWife said:


> Yet I come here and express that I'm not totally comfortable with certain emotionally related things like announcing when I'm cumming, always talking about what I want, what I need, what makes me cum, etc


To me, those are not at all the way a person would emotionally connect during sex. It would be more likely to be eye contact, or saying the person's name. Not talking about the mechanics of sex.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I agree with all the answers about connecting. 

Besides eye contact and saying your partners name, as having sex several times a week that is limiting; 

What are other ways?

Just out to always be broadening my horizons, seeing how others do things sometimes opens a new line of thought for me.


----------



## aaarghdub

Why I did with him and not you...

1. You’re a beta male and doesn’t solicit that kind of response
2. It’s a shameful part of her life and doesn’t want to relive it
3. She’s a mom now and that’s just gross
4. She was having audition sex 
5. She was having her fun and how that part of life is over


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Not

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I agree with all the answers about connecting.
> 
> Besides eye contact and saying your partners name, as having sex several times a week that is limiting;
> 
> What are other ways?
> 
> Just out to always be broadening my horizons, seeing how others do things sometimes opens a new line of thought for me.


I would like to hear about other ways as well.

I don’t talk at all during sex, I’m to focused on the physical sensations but I do like to emotionally connect by physical touch with things like touching my partners face, rubbing the tips of our noses gently during eye contact and breathing in each others air. Things have to be moving at a slow pace for these things.


----------



## Girl_power

Not said:


> I would like to hear about other ways as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t talk at all during sex, I’m to focused on the physical sensations but I do like to emotionally connect by physical touch with things like touching my partners face, rubbing the tips of our noses gently during eye contact and breathing in each others air. Things have to be moving at a slow pace for these things.




Make a new thread on it! It would be a good topic!


----------



## Not

Girl_power said:


> Make a new thread on it! It would be a good topic!


Did I thread jack? If so sorry! I thought the conversation had morphed into connecting, sorry Girl_power.


----------



## Girl_power

Not said:


> Did I thread jack? If so sorry! I thought the conversation had morphed into connecting, sorry Girl_power.




No you didn’t thread jack. I just thought you would get more feedback from others if you started a new thread.


----------



## Lady2019

Your first two were my first BF. I married a Tom. I love Tom to death we’ve been together for 12 years. Tom’s low drive + has a trampling, foot, giantism(sp?) fetish. Tom needs intense fantasy play to let go and in exchange Tom will fully indulge in my body 😉 His drive has drove me off the deep end and back with self doubt and I’m still learning that I’m not the issue he is just specific in what he likes and in turn I can be too. Perhaps your Tom needed that outfit and matching bra and underwear set. Fun topic.


----------



## MAJDEATH

aaarghdub said:


> Why I did with him and not you...
> 
> 1. You’re a beta male and doesn’t solicit that kind of response
> 2. It’s a shameful part of her life and doesn’t want to relive it
> 3. She’s a mom now and that’s just gross
> 4. She was having audition sex
> 5. She was having her fun and how that part of life is over
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So the dependable, long-term beta guy gets the cold-fish sex, and the jersey-shore one night stand meathead gets the good stuff.


----------



## ConanHub

MAJDEATH said:


> So the dependable, long-term beta guy gets the cold-fish sex, and the jersey-shore one night stand meathead gets the good stuff.


Sounds like it....


----------



## Marduk

aaarghdub said:


> Why I did with him and not you...
> 
> 1. You’re a beta male and doesn’t solicit that kind of response
> 2. It’s a shameful part of her life and doesn’t want to relive it
> 3. She’s a mom now and that’s just gross
> 4. She was having audition sex
> 5. She was having her fun and how that part of life is over
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It’s funny, you know. 

I read stuff like this, and I’m kinda left wondering. I mean, plenty of women have said no to me about plenty of things, current wife included. 

However, I’ve almost unilaterally found that if you drop it and move on to the next best thing, you often get that. And then, eventually what you wanted in the first place, too. 

And often, it’s a timing thing. I mean, ask a woman for some crazy thing over tea and she’ll often tell you no. Ask her that same thing when you’ve driven her mental for a half hour or an hour in bed, and she’s crazy turned on... and you almost always get a yes. 

Only exception was my ex wife. Who was cheating on me. Go figure.


----------



## Affaircare

MAJDEATH said:


> So the dependable, long-term beta guy gets the cold-fish sex, and the jersey-shore one night stand meathead gets the good stuff.


You know what's funny? That's not the way I read @Girl_power 's post at all. It seems to me that she views her own self as a bit of a sex freak (in the good way), and that she did things with BF1 and BF2 that were sexually edgy because THEY were sexually edgy. And she liked that because SHE is sexually edgy. For her, BF3 was a lovely human being and all, but he was more restricted in his sexual expression, and thus, it didn't seems as exciting to her. Hey, as I understand it...to each his/her own! She likes a sexy freak! :x

The thing that really struck me about this thread the most, though, is that for me...it's almost 100% the opposite. I think of myself as pretty sexually open-minded but not "freaky" really. I tend to love the person first, and then because I love them, I can "get into it" sexually. Thus for me, I think I would have felt like BF1 and BF2 were just in it for the sex and not in it for "me." I mean, when I am committed to someone, I think we could do almost anything we wanted (with the exception of pain), and I'd be game for it. But I get to the state of mind to really feel safe and expressive when there's commitment--before that, for me, it feels like too much of just "technique" rather than loving expression. Make sense?

In my lifetime, I've loved men and women. I eventually chose to pick male partners, but with every single person, I've loved them first...then gotten sexual. And with the people who turned out to be my best lovers, we start less freaky and gradually add this here...that there...and just expanded our sexual vocabulary together. It was more like exploring together, than one of us having a desire to go look at someplace that the other hadn't been. In addition, I am on the more responsive/passive side and love a person who initiates and leads, but I'm not a fish. It's just more like "let me learn what you find enjoyable, let me show you what I enjoy, and let's go these new places together and decide if we like them." 

I'm not saying my partners were beta--shoot have ya MET @Emerging Buddhist ? But the guys who really heat me up are the quiet, nerdy, dependable types. They are usually smart, witty, imaginative, fun, playful, wonderful people AND steady like a foundation on which you can build trust and safety. To me, once that foundation is laid, THEN the sexcapades appear.


----------



## Numb26

MAJDEATH said:


> aaarghdub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why I did with him and not you...
> 
> 1. You’re a beta male and doesn’t solicit that kind of response
> 2. It’s a shameful part of her life and doesn’t want to relive it
> 3. She’s a mom now and that’s just gross
> 4. She was having audition sex
> 5. She was having her fun and how that part of life is over
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> So the dependable, long-term beta guy gets the cold-fish sex, and the jersey-shore one night stand meathead gets the good stuff.
Click to expand...

Pretty much has always been this way


----------



## sokillme

I think there are two points to be made to something like this. Some women use sex transactionally as a kind of a barter system which is very common in hook up culture (men too in different ways) . If you marry someone like that then your sex life is probably going to struggle because that is a very unhealthy way of thinking about sex.

The other and what OP's post seems to be about is and especially what men need to wrap there head around is that desire for women isn't love based, maybe it is in the beginning but not after long periods of marriage. For some reason (probably movies and such) men grow up believing it is. I mean look at the shows we grew up watching does anyone believe in real life Elizabeth Montgomery would be married to a shlub like Darren Stephens? 

I mean when you think about it is our (meaning men) desire love based? What makes you want to go bang your wife's brains out, how good she cooked dinner that night, or the thong she is wearing? Why would it be any different for women? Now I do think women are more complicated and desire for them isn't so tied into the visual, but in my mind that actually is of some benefit. 

That is the point, if you want to get your wife to treat you like the Jersey Shore guy learn what makes her tick and be the Jersey Shore guy for her. 

Now the key to all that is you didn't marry a women who thinks like my first paragraph (transactionally). But one who is open to communicate and you can learn what makes her hot and bothered. But YES you are going to have to work at it. Everyone does. Marriage even good sex takes work. 

As I say over and over on here, your sex life doesn't have to be static.


----------



## Girl_power

Affaircare said:


> You know what's funny? That's not the way I read @Girl_power 's post at all. It seems to me that she views her own self as a bit of a sex freak (in the good way), and that she did things with BF1 and BF2 that were sexually edgy because THEY were sexually edgy. And she liked that because SHE is sexually edgy. For her, BF3 was a lovely human being and all, but he was more restricted in his sexual expression, and thus, it didn't seems as exciting to her. Hey, as I understand it...to each his/her own! She likes a sexy freak! :x
> 
> The thing that really struck me about this thread the most, though, is that for me...it's almost 100% the opposite. I think of myself as pretty sexually open-minded but not "freaky" really. I tend to love the person first, and then because I love them, I can "get into it" sexually. Thus for me, I think I would have felt like BF1 and BF2 were just in it for the sex and not in it for "me." I mean, when I am committed to someone, I think we could do almost anything we wanted (with the exception of pain), and I'd be game for it. But I get to the state of mind to really feel safe and expressive when there's commitment--before that, for me, it feels like too much of just "technique" rather than loving expression. Make sense?
> 
> In my lifetime, I've loved men and women. I eventually chose to pick male partners, but with every single person, I've loved them first...then gotten sexual. And with the people who turned out to be my best lovers, we start less freaky and gradually add this here...that there...and just expanded our sexual vocabulary together. It was more like exploring together, than one of us having a desire to go look at someplace that the other hadn't been. In addition, I am on the more responsive/passive side and love a person who initiates and leads, but I'm not a fish. It's just more like "let me learn what you find enjoyable, let me show you what I enjoy, and let's go these new places together and decide if we like them."
> 
> I'm not saying my partners were beta--shoot have ya MET @Emerging Buddhist ? But the guys who really heat me up are the quiet, nerdy, dependable types. They are usually smart, witty, imaginative, fun, playful, wonderful people AND steady like a foundation on which you can build trust and safety. To me, once that foundation is laid, THEN the sexcapades appear.




I just what your saying. Just to clarify, my first boyfriend was my husband and we waited till marriage to have sex. So there was definitely love before sex. The second and third there was sex before love. I guess with me it doesn’t make a difference which one comes first.


----------



## notmyjamie

Marduk said:


> It’s funny, you know.
> 
> I read stuff like this, and I’m kinda left wondering. I mean, plenty of women have said no to me about plenty of things, current wife included.
> 
> However, I’ve almost unilaterally found that if you drop it and move on to the next best thing, you often get that. And then, eventually what you wanted in the first place, too.
> 
> And often, it’s a timing thing. I mean, ask a woman for some crazy thing over tea and she’ll often tell you no. Ask her that same thing when you’ve driven her mental for a half hour or an hour in bed, and she’s crazy turned on... and you almost always get a yes.
> 
> Only exception was my ex wife. Who was cheating on me. Go figure.


I'd say that describes me pretty well. Something might sound too out there when I'm not in the mood but it takes on a much better shine when I'm in the moment and super turned on. 

But unlike the posts that say Mr Dependable gets the boring stuff and Mr One Night Stand gets the funky stuff, I am much more likely to get funky with Mr Dependable because we have a real relationship and the whole relationship affects how I see our sex life. For example, I've got the flu this week. My guy and I had to take a few days off so I made a joke that I would have sex as long as he knew it would be total starfish sex as I was honestly too weak for much more than that. He laughed and said "No thanks...that will never be something I want from you, I'd rather we both be into it" and that tells me that sex with me is about more than just insert tab a into opening b and getting off. So if he asks for something I've never considered before I won't be thinking "He just wants that act" I'll be thinking "he wants to do that WITH me, not to me" and that's makes a huge difference to me. But even so, if it's something I've never considered before, he will definitely have a better chance if he asks during sex once I'm already all worked up.


----------



## Marduk

notmyjamie said:


> I'd say that describes me pretty well. Something might sound too out there when I'm not in the mood but it takes on a much better shine when I'm in the moment and super turned on.


This has been extremely common in my experience. If I'm into someone, I'll be as up for something 'out there' over tea as I am when we're in the swing of things. But the women I've been with have been more like you almost without exception.



> But unlike the posts that say Mr Dependable gets the boring stuff and Mr One Night Stand gets the funky stuff, I am much more likely to get funky with Mr Dependable because we have a real relationship and the whole relationship affects how I see our sex life.


Exactly. But good old mr dependable also needs to be upfront about what he wants, create a situation by which it's easy and desirable for you to say yes to it, and have all the logistics about it sorted out.

Let's give an non-kinky (to me) example: Say mr dependable wants to see you in lingerie. You're with him in the mall, you walk past victoria's secret or whatever, and instead of shuffling along, he's gotta say "hey, listen, I've always wanted to see you in something like this..." and then you go in. Or at least have a conversation about it. At which time you say "maybe..." or "sure" or "perhaps one day..." Basically he's gotta receive anything but a "no way in hell will I ever do this" as at least a "maybe."

Let's say you don't go in and buy something on the spot, but you say "maybe one day." So then, he's gotta make that one day happen. Remember, he's the one that wants this, so he's gotta do the work for it. He can't just sit there waiting for you to go to the store, buy something that is exactly what he meant by 'lingerie,' put it on for you the next day, and have everything be great. He's gotta go to the store, he's gotta know you're measurements (nothing unsexier apparently than buying lingerie the wrong size), he's gotta pick out what he wants, and then he's gotta gift it to you.

And even then, his work isn't done. He's gotta create a scenario in which you want to put it on. He's gotta get you all in the mood, he's gotta get the kids put to bed, music on, lights low, warm room, make out with you and get your motor running, and then whisper in your ear "I'd love to see you in..." 

And then _maybe_ it happens, and he's gotta compliment and get all googly eyed and be appreciative and then rock your world. And if it doesn't happen, he's gotta do all that anyway with a smile on his face so you don't feel forced or coerced into doing something and have him be passive aggressive about it. And then he's gotta do the whole thing again a night or two or a week or a month later, and roll the dice one more time.

That's what I mean.



> For example, I've got the flu this week. My guy and I had to take a few days off so I made a joke that I would have sex as long as he knew it would be total starfish sex as I was honestly too weak for much more than that. He laughed and said "No thanks...that will never be something I want from you, I'd rather we both be into it" and that tells me that sex with me is about more than just insert tab a into opening b and getting off. So if he asks for something I've never considered before I won't be thinking "He just wants that act" I'll be thinking "he wants to do that WITH me, not to me" and that's makes a huge difference to me. But even so, if it's something I've never considered before, he will definitely have a better chance if he asks during sex once I'm already all worked up.


If she's sick, I do the same. Just go into caretaking mode. If she's just tired or something, sometimes I do the opposite - I go all mr sexy on her, and watch her try to just lay there starfish style and not get into it. It's like a dare. Often, she gets very into it.


----------



## notmyjamie

Marduk said:


> Exactly. But good old mr dependable also needs to be upfront about what he wants, create a situation by which it's easy and desirable for you to say yes to it, and have all the logistics about it sorted out.
> 
> 
> Being upfront about what you want always seems to work better anyway about all things, not just sex. But I'm not sure it's fair to say he has to have all the logistics worked out on his own and do all the work of making it easy and desirable. That seems too one sided to me.
> 
> 
> Let's give an non-kinky (to me) example: Say mr dependable wants to see you in lingerie. You're with him in the mall, you walk past victoria's secret or whatever, and instead of shuffling along, he's gotta say "hey, listen, I've always wanted to see you in something like this..." and then you go in. Or at least have a conversation about it. At which time you say "maybe..." or "sure" or "perhaps one day..." Basically he's gotta receive anything but a "no way in hell will I ever do this" as at least a "maybe."
> 
> Let's say you don't go in and buy something on the spot, but you say "maybe one day." So then, he's gotta make that one day happen. Remember, he's the one that wants this, so he's gotta do the work for it. He can't just sit there waiting for you to go to the store, buy something that is exactly what he meant by 'lingerie,' put it on for you the next day, and have everything be great. He's gotta go to the store, he's gotta know you're measurements (nothing unsexier apparently than buying lingerie the wrong size), he's gotta pick out what he wants, and then he's gotta gift it to you.
> 
> And even then, his work isn't done. He's gotta create a scenario in which you want to put it on. He's gotta get you all in the mood, he's gotta get the kids put to bed, music on, lights low, warm room, make out with you and get your motor running, and then whisper in your ear "I'd love to see you in..."
> 
> And then _maybe_ it happens, and he's gotta compliment and get all googly eyed and be appreciative and then rock your world. And if it doesn't happen, he's gotta do all that anyway with a smile on his face so you don't feel forced or coerced into doing something and have him be passive aggressive about it. And then he's gotta do the whole thing again a night or two or a week or a month later, and roll the dice one more time.
> 
> That's what I mean.
> 
> Jeez...that is VERY one sided. If it were me, and my guy said "I'd love to see you in some sexy lingerie. I'd take some of the ownership in making it happen. I'd go into the store with him, see what he likes, show him what I like, and buy something together. Once I wore it for him I'd appreciate it greatly if he threw some compliments my way and rocked my world. That would 100% increase the chance of my wearing it again. Or I'd buy something and surprise him with it. My guy told me recently something he'd love to see me in...he said it in passing, like it wasn't a really big deal if he never actually got to see it. It's sitting in my drawer right now waiting for a good opportunity to wear it. I'm thinking next time we go away.
> 
> He told me recently about a long time fantasy of his...nothing too kinky...very easy to do for him. It will happen for him. And I will thoroughly enjoy it knowing how much he'll enjoy it.
> 
> 
> If she's sick, I do the same. Just go into caretaking mode. If she's just tired or something, sometimes I do the opposite - I go all mr sexy on her, and watch her try to just lay there starfish style and not get into it. It's like a dare. Often, she gets very into it.
> 
> LOL...that's a fun challenge.If I'm just tired, he can get me going...and he loves to do it. He seems to instinctively know when I'm just your average tired vs bone weary tired. He'll do the challenge for the former and tuck me into bed for the latter. It's really nice to have someone in my life like that, I feel pretty lucky. So when he tells me there's something that would make him happy, my first instinct is to do it for him.


----------



## Marduk

notmyjamie said:


> Being upfront about what you want always seems to work better anyway about all things, not just sex. But I'm not sure it's fair to say he has to have all the logistics worked out on his own and do all the work of making it easy and desirable. That seems too one sided to me.


My point is that he should proactively assume that if he wants something, then he's the one that's going to have to do the work for it. If you choose to do it, and say "OK, I'm game, why don't I surprise you with something sometime" then bonus!

But too many people I think assume that by just vocalizing or wishing for something that their spouse should bear the burden for reverse engineering what it is they want, and then providing it for them.

How many guys for example have said on these forums "I wish my wife would do X" and they've never asked for it? Or they wish their wife would wear something or use something and they've never actually provided it? Or never created the situation where they might be willing to do it?



> Jeez...that is VERY one sided. If it were me, and my guy said "I'd love to see you in some sexy lingerie. I'd take some of the ownership in making it happen. I'd go into the store with him, see what he likes, show him what I like, and buy something together. Once I wore it for him I'd appreciate it greatly if he threw some compliments my way and rocked my world. That would 100% increase the chance of my wearing it again. Or I'd buy something and surprise him with it. My guy told me recently something he'd love to see me in...he said it in passing, like it wasn't a really big deal if he never actually got to see it. It's sitting in my drawer right now waiting for a good opportunity to wear it. I'm thinking next time we go away.


And that's fantastic. But I've known plenty of women that aren't like that at all. Hell, I know of one that won't buy a vibrator even though both of them want one. My response to that would be that if you want it, go and get it. But don't both sit there expecting the other person to do it for you, and if it's something only one person wants, then that person should assume the burden of making it happen.

If the other person is gung ho, then again, that's a bonus.



> He told me recently about a long time fantasy of his...nothing too kinky...very easy to do for him. It will happen for him. And I will thoroughly enjoy it knowing how much he'll enjoy it.


Groovy!


----------



## notmyjamie

Marduk said:


> My point is that he should proactively assume that if he wants something, then he's the one that's going to have to do the work for it. If you choose to do it, and say "OK, I'm game, why don't I surprise you with something sometime" then bonus!
> 
> But too many people I think assume that by just vocalizing or wishing for something that their spouse should bear the burden for reverse engineering what it is they want, and then providing it for them.
> 
> How many guys for example have said on these forums "I wish my wife would do X" and they've never asked for it? Or they wish their wife would wear something or use something and they've never actually provided it? Or never created the situation where they might be willing to do it?


That's true...I just think that as a willing, loving, partner I want to take on some of that responsibility too. Someday I'll be the one who wants something and I'd feel better about it if he met me half way at least...otherwise I'd feel like he was just going along but didn't really want to be doing it and that would take all the pleasure out of it. I'd hate for my partner to feel that way so I make sure to meet him halfway at a minimum.

People tell me all the time I'm not like most women in a lot of ways...maybe it's true in this case too.


----------



## samyeagar

People tend to put in an amount effort that is proportional to how important something is to them. Peoples actions tend to reflect their feelings.


----------



## attheend02

notmyjamie said:


> That's true...I just think that as a willing, loving, partner I want to take on some of that responsibility too. Someday I'll be the one who wants something and I'd feel better about it if he met me half way at least...otherwise I'd feel like he was just going along but didn't really want to be doing it and that would take all the pleasure out of it. I'd hate for my partner to feel that way so I make sure to meet him halfway at a minimum.
> 
> People tell me all the time I'm not like most women in a lot of ways...maybe it's true in this case too.


I think most couples in a functional loving long term relationship are probably closer to the "meet half way point" for most things illustrated in Marduk's example, but the point is well taken.


----------



## Marduk

notmyjamie said:


> That's true...I just think that as a willing, loving, partner I want to take on some of that responsibility too. Someday I'll be the one who wants something and I'd feel better about it if he met me half way at least...otherwise I'd feel like he was just going along but didn't really want to be doing it and that would take all the pleasure out of it. I'd hate for my partner to feel that way so I make sure to meet him halfway at a minimum.
> 
> People tell me all the time I'm not like most women in a lot of ways...maybe it's true in this case too.


Oh, my wife is more like you than she isn't. My point is not that mr dependables often turn out to also be mr passive-aggressive and mr boring and wonder why they don't get what they want.

I think about sex like I think about food.

Steak is great. But steak every night would probably wear thin after a while. Sushi's good, too. But maybe once a week. 

If my wife normally is the one that cooks and makes me steak every night and I want sushi... well then I better learn how to make sushi, nicely ask her if she'll make sushi, or make a reservation at a sushi place. Rejecting steak because I don't get sushi isn't going to make anybody happy.

And if my wife doesn't want sushi, then I guess pizza sounds great, too. Or Thai. Or Italian. There's an infinite amount of different kinds of food, with plenty to try that we both like. No point in getting hung up about any one kind of food or any one dish because life is a buffet. But I have to be a part of the work to bring it to the table.


----------



## Girl_power

samyeagar said:


> People tend to put in an amount effort that is proportional to how important something is to them. Peoples actions tend to reflect their feelings.




I am a firm believer on this.


----------



## ConanHub

I'm going to agree with getting a woman worked up, feeling sexy, feeling appreciated, etc. having a greater impact on how much and how many things they will do with you as opposed to asking over tea. LoL!

The Amazon I dated did some things with me without being asked because I just led the way sexually and she was very turned on.

Her next partner asked for some of the same things and she refused. Partially, probably, because he asked without getting her motor running fast enough and she straight up told me she wasn't into him as much.


----------



## TJW

MAJDEATH said:


> So the dependable, long-term beta guy gets the cold-fish sex, and the jersey-shore one night stand meathead gets the good stuff.





samyeagar said:


> People tend to put in an amount effort that is proportional to how important something is to them. Peoples actions tend to reflect their feelings.


Over the long term, yes. Actions reflect feelings. However, the beta guy gets the "audition sex", but a week (or a couple days) into the marriage, the REAL feelings take over.


----------



## Numb26

TJW said:


> Over the long term, yes. Actions reflect feelings. However, the beta guy gets the "audition sex", but a week (or a couple days) into the marriage, the REAL feelings take over.


Also known as the bait and switch. I am really suprised at how many men and women put up with it


----------



## Girl_power

Numb26 said:


> Also known as the bait and switch. I am really suprised at how many men and women put up with it




Obviously no one should be baiting and switching anyone. When people think of the old “bait and switch” they usually think of women letting themselves go and not having good sex anymore.
But I do want to add that a lot of men also do the bait and switch with their wives. Men that were once romantic and spontaneous and good conversationalist and watched chick flicks and bought gifts and flowers etc. “switch” after marriage and become more lazy and not as into their wife as they were before they got married.

I think it happens both ways. Men and women have “audition” personality or behavior and once they seal the deal then they can relax, un-bottom their pants and stop trying so hard. It’s sad.


----------



## Numb26

Girl_power said:


> Numb26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also known as the bait and switch. I am really suprised at how many men and women put up with it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously no one should be baiting and switching anyone. When people think of the old “bait and switch” they usually think of women letting themselves go and not having good sex anymore.
> But I do want to add that a lot of men also do the bait and switch with their wives. Men that were once romantic and spontaneous and good conversationalist and watched chick flicks and bought gifts and flowers etc. “switch” after marriage and become more lazy and not as into their wife as they were before they got married.
> 
> I think it happens both ways. Men and women have “audition” personality or behavior and once they seal the deal then they can relax, un-bottom their pants and stop trying so hard. It’s sad.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree. That's why I said I was suprised how many men and women try to live with it. It's a shame


----------



## RebuildingMe

Girl_power said:


> Numb26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also known as the bait and switch. I am really suprised at how many men and women put up with it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously no one should be baiting and switching anyone. When people think of the old “bait and switch” they usually think of women letting themselves go and not having good sex anymore.
> But I do want to add that a lot of men also do the bait and switch with their wives. Men that were once romantic and spontaneous and good conversationalist and watched chick flicks and bought gifts and flowers etc. “switch” after marriage and become more lazy and not as into their wife as they were before they got married.
> 
> I think it happens both ways. Men and women have “audition” personality or behavior and once they seal the deal then they can relax, un-bottom their pants and stop trying so hard. It’s sad.
Click to expand...

That’s exactly why marriage is a joke. Date someone and let them keep the auditions going until they stop and then you fire them.


----------



## minimalME

Which is exactly why 'dating' is now a joke.



RebuildingMe said:


> That’s exactly why marriage is a joke. Date someone and let them keep the auditions going until they stop and then you fire them.


----------



## Numb26

minimalME said:


> Which is exactly why 'dating' is now a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> RebuildingMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> That’s exactly why marriage is a joke. Date someone and let them keep the auditions going until they stop and then you fire them.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I agree.


----------



## aaarghdub

Marduk said:


> My response to that would be that if you want it, go and get it. But don't both sit there expecting the other person to do it for you, and if it's something only one person wants, then that person should assume the burden of making it happen.
> 
> 
> 
> If the other person is gung ho, then again, that's a bonus.



Funny... in my experience women do this all the time. Substitute “job/salary/standard of living/ huge ticket expensive item.” and you’ll see a double standard with respect to a couple’s standard of living and finances...

“Husband I’d really love it if you got a $400K/year job for me. It would look so good on you”

*OK but I need you to work on my resume, set up interviews, help me study for my certification exams, go network for me. Then maybe I’ll go to the interview if you get me one. Depends on how you make me feel that day... I mean I have a lot of stuff going on in my head and job hunting is last on my list. Why can’t you just be happy with my $60K/year salary, what’s wrong with what I do now?”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Marduk

aaarghdub said:


> Funny... in my experience women do this all the time. Substitute “job/salary/standard of living/ huge ticket expensive item.” and you’ll see a double standard with respect to a couple’s standard of living and finances...
> 
> “Husband I’d really love it if you got a $400K/year job for me. It would look so good on you”
> 
> *OK but I need you to work on my resume, set up interviews, help me study for my certification exams, go network for me. Then maybe I’ll go to the interview if you get me one. Depends on how you make me feel that day... I mean I have a lot of stuff going on in my head and job hunting is last on my list. Why can’t you just be happy with my $60K/year salary, what’s wrong with what I do now?”
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't get why you're trying to derail this into a 'men are victims of women' thing.


----------



## Marduk

RebuildingMe said:


> That’s exactly why marriage is a joke. Date someone and let them keep the auditions going until they stop and then you fire them.


In marriage #1, the sex got worse after marriage and eventually ended. We divorced. In marriage #2, the sex got better and frequency stayed about the same after we got married, and continues to do so.

It's a sample size of one, for sure, but one of the criteria I was clear and up front about was that sex was a priority. It was for her, too. I also dated with this being a key component, and broke it off if there were hangups, or I even got the sense that she really didn't know who she was, sexually, or was just trying to make it look like she was more sexual than she really was.

Just got a laundry list of things wife wants to do and try last night. Been together 20 years at this point. Be intentional, and be ready to bail when dating if you get an indication that something important to you isn't working.


----------



## aaarghdub

Marduk said:


> I don't get why you're trying to derail this into a 'men are victims of women' thing.



I’m just saying there’s a double standard that’s all. As a man, the more desirable and confidence you present, the higher chance you’re partner will go out if their way to improve your sex life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Livvie

aaarghdub said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get why you're trying to derail this into a 'men are victims of women' thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m just saying there’s a double standard that’s all. As a man, the more desirable and confidence you present, the higher chance you’re partner will go out if their way to improve your sex life.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I don't think it's really a double standard. As a man, the more desirable you are and more confidence you present, the higher the chance your partner will go out of their way to improve your sex life. Sure. And as a woman, the more attractive and sexy/confident you are, the higher the chance your partner will go out of their way to maintain/keep the relationship happy. Look at all of the man who date/marry/stay with crazy just because she's hot and they want to **** her.


----------



## leftfield

notmyjamie said:


> That's true...I just think that as a willing, loving, partner I want to take on some of that responsibility too. Someday I'll be the one who wants something and I'd feel better about it if he met me half way at least...otherwise I'd feel like he was just going along but didn't really want to be doing it and that would take all the pleasure out of it. I'd hate for my partner to feel that way so I make sure to meet him halfway at a minimum.
> 
> People tell me all the time I'm not like most women in a lot of ways...maybe it's true in this case too.


This comment just about perfectly sums how I feel about doing things with my wife. I wish my wife thought about things the same way you do. I hate feeling like she is just going through the motions for me. It sucks all of the joy out of it.


----------



## notmyjamie

leftfield said:


> This comment just about perfectly sums how I feel about doing things with my wife. I wish my wife thought about things the same way you do. I hate feeling like she is just going through the motions for me. It sucks all of the joy out of it.


Yup, that would absolutely make me not want to ask for anything, ever. Sorry you're dealing with that. Have you talked with her about it?


----------



## Marduk

aaarghdub said:


> I’m just saying there’s a double standard that’s all. As a man, the more desirable and confidence you present, the higher chance you’re partner will go out if their way to improve your sex life.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Want to talk about the double standards for women?

Men aren't victims in this game.


----------



## Marduk

Livvie said:


> Look at all of the man who date/marry/stay with crazy just because she's hot and they want to **** her.












Story of my dating life.


----------



## leftfield

notmyjamie said:


> Yup, that would absolutely make me not want to ask for anything, ever. Sorry you're dealing with that. Have you talked with her about it?


Yes, I have talked to her many times about it. The response is "I'm willing". What goes through my head at that point is "so is a prostitute or a cam girl, but I am not looking for that". I have never verbalized those thoughts.


----------



## notmyjamie

leftfield said:


> Yes, I have talked to her many times about it. The response is "I'm willing". What goes through my head at that point is "so is a prostitute or a cam girl, but I am not looking for that". I have never verbalized those thoughts.


Maybe it might be time, assuming, of course, you're not asking for something that's way out there. I like to think of myself as giving but if my guy asked for something way out there (diaper fetish for example) I might be willing but would have trouble faking being even halfway into it. Scratch that...I'd probably run away as fast as possible. I think I used a too far out there example for me!! LOL

But my point is the same...she needs to know how it makes you feel. The discussion could yield some insight for you on her feelings as well.


----------



## arbitrator

TJW said:


> Over the long term, yes. Actions reflect feelings. However, the beta guy gets the "audition sex", but a week (or a couple days) into the marriage, the REAL feelings take over.


*You don't really have to be a beta male (or female) to get unceremoniously greeted by the old "bait and switch!"

I cannot help but believe that there's a certain segment of society (both male and female) out there that, who for whatever reason, internally deplores or fears the functionality of human sex, but at the same time, hates loneliness even more; and will just go along with the newness of sex until such time that they feel they can safely coerce their marital partner to refrain from its performance, other than perhaps for procreational purposes!

So sad, but true! *


----------



## Divinely Favored

What you want is irrelevant. What you have chosen is at hand.



Marduk said:


> I've always loved that quote, and you've nailed the context here.


Perfect saying for those cheaters when you divorce or dump them.


----------



## Rivercat

As a common husband that lost partaking of oral sex as the marriage seasoned. I have stepped up and practice on her almost every time. 
I have gained weight, she likewise has gained weight from pregnancy’s. All that is past I have had a vasectomy our youngest is out if diapers. She is trying ti diet I am trying to diet. I am trying to be more romantic and trying to step up to the role of man more than ever. As said i practice allot on her and live the amount of control and for her to finish when i let her, even if i didnt like it or thought it to be gross I would still do it based on the pleasure it gives her. All that said is there any hope to get her to practice oral on me again if i make myself attractive or appealing enough without forcing it? 
Not trying to jack the thread but you seemed to laid out degrees of sexuality depending on the other person and this seems to fit the topic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

Rivercat said:


> As a common husband that lost partaking of oral sex as the marriage seasoned. I have stepped up and practice on her almost every time.
> I have gained weight, she likewise has gained weight from pregnancy’s. All that is past I have had a vasectomy our youngest is out if diapers. She is trying ti diet I am trying to diet. I am trying to be more romantic and trying to step up to the role of man more than ever. As said i practice allot on her and live the amount of control and for her to finish when i let her, even if i didnt like it or thought it to be gross I would still do it based on the pleasure it gives her. All that said is there any hope to get her to practice oral on me again if i make myself attractive or appealing enough without forcing it?
> Not trying to jack the thread but you seemed to laid out degrees of sexuality depending on the other person and this seems to fit the topic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got Mrs Conan to get into oral a lot more several years ago.

I just made sure we were intimate and she felt comfortable and safe and I had a few fun talks with her about it and let her know that my body was her playground and my unit was her toy. She needed to feel in control and confident about doing things to me.

I am absolutely the more sexual partner and love everything about sex. I could give oral morning noon and night for the shear pleasure of doing it so our dynamic is a little unbalanced but since I'm HD and confident it goes good with her Reactive Desire.

She definitely got into it more and I love it!

Getting in shape won't hurt at all.

Mrs. C gets in the mood quickly when I'm sans apparel.😉


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

It was probably 15 years ago, even while a pretty good sex life, we had the talk to kick things up into the next level sex wise, with any frequency each desired as long as it reaches my needs 😎😎😎 with continued patient approval by both of us that we can bring up improvements and variations any time in an emotional safe environment. 

And always getting better.

I admit, and this was after kids were older, that the extent of my point was there has to be more sex at will or there's going to be repercussions. I want to build on what works for both, and this is my starting point.

Dear Wife (DW) to her credit got right on board.

And we cleared the air on the common issues as in she thought she was less attractive because of mastectomies, that's a hard not, and the fact that I'll have to have more personal time if needed, no closed doors in my office, she can walk in any time, I won't be hiding things.

So we cleared the roads and built a superhighway to get things out in the open, freely, comfortably, at any time each wants too.

Because I told her if I can't and we can't talk about sex freely with each other, who else can we when we're married and after so many years it's unthinkable we can't freely talk about sex.

She's become tremendously more free about being nekkid on demand, as she wants or I request, and sex all over the house, and if my imagination can think it and bring up kindly, lovingly, she's all for it.

All good.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

My favorite words from her are honey, do me.


----------



## Personal

Rivercat said:


> All that said is there any hope to get her to practice oral on me again


Do you tell her any of the following: "Put my **** in your mouth.", or "Put it in your mouth.", when you are having sex?

Since in my experience both of the above statements work very well. To the point I've always enjoyed getting a lot of frequent oral sex, throughout my marriage.

Be direct, be bold and don't tap dance around what you want her to do.


----------



## C.C. says ...

Personal said:


> Do you tell her any of the following: "Put my **** in your mouth.", or "Put it in your mouth.", when you are having sex?
> 
> Since in my experience both of the above statements work very well. To the point I've always enjoyed getting a lot of frequent oral sex, throughout my marriage.
> 
> Be direct, be bold and don't tap dance around what you want her to do.


😁👍 lol I didn’t expect that out of you.


----------



## Personal

C.C. says ... said:


> 😁👍 lol I didn’t expect that out of you.


Why?


----------



## C.C. says ...

Personal said:


> Why?


I don’t know. I’m not sure. But I liked it.


----------



## Casual Observer

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I admit, and this was after kids were older, that the extent of my point was* there has to be more sex at will* or there's going to be repercussions. I want to build on what works for both, and this is my starting point.
> ....
> She's become tremendously more free about being nekkid on demand, as she wants or I request, and sex all over the house, and if my imagination can think it and bring up kindly, lovingly, she's all for it.
> 
> All good.


I'm not sure if this sounds perfect, an ideal situation, or a Stepford Wife dream come true. If both are fully on board, and both have similar levels of desire, or both have the desire to match their partner's level, sure. But "sex at will" could at times be essentially a demand on the other partner, asking him or her to do something they don't want to do at that time. And that starts sounding a bit like coerced consent, and where do you draw the line separating consensual sex from rape at that point?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Personal said:


> Do you tell her any of the following: "Put my **** in your mouth.", or "Put it in your mouth.", when you are having sex?
> 
> Since in my experience both of the above statements work very well. To the point I've always enjoyed getting a lot of frequent oral sex, throughout my marriage.
> 
> Be direct, be bold and don't tap dance around what you want her to do.


I like, " You look like you need some candy, i got a lolli pop for you" or since i always liked Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory...."Hey baby, i have you an everlasting gobstopper for you"


----------



## Rivercat

Personal said:


> Do you tell her any of the following: "Put my **** in your mouth.", or "Put it in your mouth.", when you are having sex?
> 
> Since in my experience both of the above statements work very well. To the point I've always enjoyed getting a lot of frequent oral sex, throughout my marriage.
> 
> Be direct, be bold and don't tap dance around what you want her to do.


To be fair this is something that sharply declined after we got married. She finally admitted how much she hates it and I can admit my cum smells, however we have tried using saran wrap and that seems like a reasonable compromise. I guess im too fat and unappealing to command the sort of attraction especially after her 5 child and declining drive to receive oral or even piv sex more than weekly. She loves getting oral but will never actually ask for it. When i say we are overweight i mean like i wear a 3x shirt and she wears 24s. May take a miracle for us to act like athletic teens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bobert

Rivercat said:


> we have tried using saran wrap


....WTF?


----------



## ConanHub

bobert said:


> ....WTF?


Ya. I'm really uncertain as well......


----------



## Casual Observer

ConanHub said:


> Ya. I'm really uncertain as well......


Kind of like a condom maybe? Thinner so maybe it feels better? I’ve often thought there might be a market for a condom alternative that’s designed to reduce mess while not thick enough to prevent accidental rupture sometimes.


----------



## Laurentium

There are such things are pleasant-flavoured lubricants.


----------



## Rivercat

As a condom to cover the phallus and stop precum/ cum as well as the latex/lube taste of a legit condom. Sorry if actually loving my wife and not just wanting to dog her and gag her in the mouth like a back alley rapist makes me a modern day puritan or something. 
Again if you stop the hardcore porn use you will see woman as human beings again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bobert

Rivercat said:


> As a condom to cover the phallus and stop precum/ cum as well as the latex/lube taste of a legit condom. Sorry if actually loving my wife and not just wanting to dog her and gag her in the mouth like a back alley rapist makes me a modern day puritan or something.
> Again if you stop the hardcore porn use you will see woman as human beings again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You know you can buy flavored condoms, right? Or non-lubricated condoms and flavored lube? Or non-latex condoms? Far safer than using saran wrap that she could end up swallowing...


----------



## RandomDude

My partner and I don't use condoms. She also swallows. She's been swallowing from day one in fact. Then she licks any leftovers clean. Never had to ask or suggest, just have it flopping around and sooner or later it goes in lol

I do keep it pristine though, like I wouldn't let her go near it unless it is. Just wash it over the sink as a habit.


----------



## JustTheWife

Personal said:


> Do you tell her any of the following: "Put my **** in your mouth.", or "Put it in your mouth.", when you are having sex?
> 
> Since in my experience both of the above statements work very well. To the point I've always enjoyed getting a lot of frequent oral sex, throughout my marriage.
> 
> Be direct, be bold and don't tap dance around what you want her to do.


I always liked being told exactly what to do - direct approach is best. Shows he has some guts and not afraid to take charge of things. That's a turn on.


----------



## Personal

Rivercat said:


> To be fair this is something that sharply declined after we got married. She finally admitted how much she hates it and I can admit my cum smells, however we have tried using saran wrap and that seems like a reasonable compromise. I guess im too fat and unappealing to command the sort of attraction especially after her 5 child and declining drive to receive oral or even piv sex more than weekly. She loves getting oral but will never actually ask for it. When i say we are overweight i mean like i wear a 3x shirt and she wears 24s. May take a miracle for us to act like athletic teens.


Okay I'll start from the top and work my way down (pun intended).

On taste and smell, such things can be addressed in part with diet. For example lay off having caffeine, if you consume it and drink more water. Hygiene matters a lot as well, so if one wants more oral sex keeping one's undercarriage clean goes a long way. Likewise addressing taste and texture inside the mouth, you don't have to ejaculate inside your wife's mouth. So you can pull out beforehand and splatter her on her face or breasts, as an alternative amongst others. I'll address barriers in a response to another one of your posts a bit later.

On being overweight it's a good thing you are both trying to address it. Now with respect to oral sex and being overweight, one doesn't need to be an athletic teenager to do such things. You can stand in front of your wife while she sits on a chair. You could both lay on your sides on a bed for your wife to access you. You could lay on your back on a bed, with your wife kneeling above you. Or you could sit at the side of the bed, while your wife accesses you on and on etc. Oral sex needn't be an athletic activity at all.



Rivercat said:


> As a condom to cover the phallus and stop precum/ cum as well as the latex/lube taste of a legit condom. Sorry if actually loving my wife and not just wanting to dog her and gag her in the mouth like a back alley rapist makes me a modern day puritan or something.
> Again if you stop the hardcore porn use you will see woman as human beings again.


Please don't use Saran Wrap as an improvised condom, since the Saran Wrap can break into separate pieces, which can be swallowed or worse can potentially block your wife's airway with catastrophic results. Polyurethane condoms are less likely to break into small debris, are thinner and do not have the taste issues of latex condoms, so they are a viable option in lieu of latex condoms. Another option is the use of dental dams, which are also available in non-latex options. So please do your wife a favour and save the Saran Wrap for food.

As to the rest of the above quoted post, you're the one who asked for advice on how to get more oral sex as quoted below.



Rivercat said:


> All that said is there any hope to get her to practice oral on me again


As a man who has never lacked for lots of oral sex amongst plenty of other sex, in all of my sexual relationships, including with my wife who I have happily been with for over 24 years, plus ex-wife and all the others. I have simply told you what works well and have genuinely tried to help you.

So with that said here goes, I have no idea what wanting to dog someone is, to the point I put " wanting to dog her" into a search engine and found stuff about pet shops and issues with owning dogs and puppies. Yet no one has told you to gag your wife, or has implied gagging a woman during oral sex is a good idea.

As to your back door rapist comment, shame on you. For sullying oral sex and sullying the shared pleasures of consensual oral sex.

The incredulity that was expressed here, over your Saran Wrap practices. Are driven by the understanding that the use of plastic film is at best an inadequate solution, and at worst a potentially life threatening practice. It has nothing at all to do with you being a puritan or otherwise.

In closing if you are interested in solutions to your poor sex life, you would do well to consider adopting some of the behaviours that sexually successful people do. If you aren't interested in such solutions, you would do well not to ask.

That said if you are determined to double down on what doesn't work, please don't let me or anyone else dissuade you from your efforts.


----------



## RandomDude

Personal said:


> So with that said here goes, I have no idea what wanting to dog someone is, to the point I put " wanting to dog her" into a search engine and found stuff about pet shops and issues with owning dogs and puppies. Yet no one has told you to gag your wife, or has implied gagging a woman during oral sex is a good idea.
> 
> As to your back door rapist comment, shame on you. For sullying oral sex and sullying the shared pleasures of consensual oral sex.


I actually don't get why people think oral sex on men is even anything related to male dominance at all, or vice versa on women. Quite frankly I feel as a sub when receiving and I prefer to be dominant.


----------



## Bluesclues

RandomDude said:


> I actually don't get why people think oral sex on men is even anything related to male dominance at all, or vice versa on women. Quite frankly I feel as a sub when receiving and I prefer to be dominant.


You have obviously never had a **** shoved down your throat with someone holding the back of your head. Even when done lovingly it can be terrifying.


----------



## RandomDude

Bluesclues said:


> You have obviously never had a **** shoved down your throat with someone holding the back of your head. Even when done lovingly it can be terrifying.


Yeah even the thought of that isn't dominant enough for me, I don't want just her body, but her mind and her soul at my mercy for a release.

I think I see the whole power dynamics of sex a tad differently to other people, I wonder if that makes me even more... sadist but it's not like I've had anyone complain unless I leave them hanging... too long.


----------



## farsidejunky

RandomDude said:


> Yeah even the thought of that isn't dominant enough for me, I don't want just her body, but her mind and her soul at my mercy for a release.
> 
> I think I see the whole power dynamics of sex a tad differently to other people, I wonder if that makes me even more... sadist but it's not like I've had anyone complain unless I leave them hanging... too long.


Yup.

Nothing like keeping the finger on the pulse of your dominant side. 

It completely changes the experience. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Rivercat

Personal said:


> Please don't use Saran Wrap as an improvised condom, since the Saran Wrap can break into separate pieces, which can be swallowed or worse can potentially block your wife's airway with catastrophic results. Polyurethane condoms are less likely to break into small debris, are thinner and do not have the taste issues of latex condoms, so they are a viable option in lieu of latex condoms. Another option is the use of dental dams, which are also available in non-latex options. So please do your wife a favour and save the Saran Wrap for food.
> 
> [\QUOTE]
> 
> By being overweight Im expressing that we both lack self esteem and confidence and are self conscious of our bodies, not that we are unable to position well.
> 
> That being said the cockiness of demanding she “put it in her mouth” is gonna seem more like abuse. Thats what i mean by “back alley rape”. It was two extremes puritan/ porn throat gagger I have to find a happy medium between the two.
> 
> As far as the saran wrap. It is thin and rubbery i cant even get it to rip when covering dishes and it comes on a 12-15” roll if she was to use it to cover my stuff it would be a 12x12 piece anyone that swallows that is retarded when they don’t even wanna be there sucking anyway.
> By all means keep the tips rolling.


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## JustTheWife

RandomDude said:


> Yeah even the thought of that isn't dominant enough for me, I don't want just her body, but her mind and her soul at my mercy for a release.
> 
> I think I see the whole power dynamics of sex a tad differently to other people, I wonder if that makes me even more... sadist but it's not like I've had anyone complain unless I leave them hanging... too long.


i don't think very many get this...yes...the mind and soul in addition to the body. Some guys aren't dominant at all. Some just focus on dominating the body. The absolute best experiences are when your soul and mind are completely controlled and manipulated. You come away questioning who you even are. You're stripped to the core. So intense. I think very few guys know how to do this (combined with the desire to). Takes a huge amount of intelligence.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Rivercat said:


> When i say we are overweight i mean like i wear a 3x shirt and she wears 24s.


Yikes.

I was wondering if by chance that was YOU in your avatar, but you answered my question. 😁


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## Rivercat

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Yikes.
> 
> I was wondering if by chance that was YOU in your avatar, but you answered my question.


Sorry for the letdown. The avatar is Don Draper from Mad Men.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

JustTheWife said:


> i don't think very many get this...yes...the mind and soul in addition to the body. Some guys aren't dominant at all. Some just focus on dominating the body. The absolute best experiences are when your soul and mind are completely controlled and manipulated. You come away questioning who you even are. You're stripped to the core. So intense. I think very few guys know how to do this (combined with the desire to). Takes a huge amount of intelligence.


Well a wise man once said that God gave men a penis and a brain, yet only enough blood to run one at a time 😂
So maybe not intelligence lol


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Good Lord, I'd suggest stay away from saran wrap.

If she says the taste of things is an issue, this is one option, and will, no doubt, resolve the tase issue. 

Use massage oils that are edible, and in multiple flavors, whether Vanilla, Mango, etc, readily available on Amazon. 

First though, after you shower, using cocoa butter soap, shave all over with flavored shave cream (like Cremo).

Put a little flavored massage oil on, let her do to her preferences, and go to town.

That will prevent the concept of bad taste and smell, no more barriers. 

Good luck!


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## WandaJ

Damn, how did I miss that thread before?


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## Modernman504

Girl_power said:


> Just sharing my limited experience and point of view hoping it will help some men.
> 
> I am HD, I consider myself a “disgusting pervert” but I am not very kinky. I have had 3 sexual partners.
> 
> The first was my exH. And he was a “disgusting pervert” like me. He made me feel like he was obsessed with me. He would kiss my feet, and loved going down on me and licking my butt. I can tell he loved it, not necessarily because I liked it and that’s an important point. If I texted him I’m horny he would be like wait for me!! And rush home. We had phone sex when we were apart. I felt sexually very comfortable with him.
> 
> My next partner was after the divorce and I was more self conscious. Let’s call him mark. Mark was also a disgusting pervert like me. He loved sex, and anal, and oral, and he had a fetish for cream pies. He made me feel very sexually comfortable, like I didn’t have to be perfect and he still made me feel like I was a supermodel/porn star. We would Snapchat and masterbate together when we were apart. He loved a straight view of my vagina, and me masterbating. I don’t think most men like to see the vagina that up close, they would rather see the whole picture or boobs or whatever. He also wanted me to do things I didn’t want to do like finger my ass, but the fact that he wanted me to do that was a turn on for me.
> 
> My last partner was not a disgusting pervert, he was normal and like normal sex and watched normal porn. Let’s call him Tom. Tom and I got along great outside of the bedroom. Sex was good, he lasted a long time and usually always made me orgasm. But he was missing that oomph. He told me he liked going down on me, but I could tell he didn’t. I can tell by the way he did it, how often he did it etc. I can tell that he did it because he knew I liked it and not because he loved it. He did not make me feel sexually comfortable because I felt like I was a bigger “freak” then him, but also I can tell he wasn’t obsessed with my body like my other partners were. He made me feel like I had to look my best all the time. One time while we were in bed he drew my attention to my inner thigh because I guess I forgot to shave there or something. It pissed me off. He liked me to wear nice underwear, preferably matching (which I never did). He made me feel like I had to dress up for him in order for him to want to have sex with me. I was not sexually open to him or comfortable with him. Even though he would SAY he wanted me to be, and he would SAY all the right things.
> 
> My point is that, it was day and night between my first 2 partners and my third. And Tom and j had good sex, and occasionally anal sex, but we never had great sex. He was inhibited, and self conscious and too in his head, and he did things bc he wanted me to enjoy them but I can tell he didn’t really enjoy them. While the others just enjoyed themselves If that makes sense.
> 
> 
> I don’t know if this was helpful or not haha.


So, I am interpreting the meaning of this post as follows: "Guys, yank the giant stick out of your rear if you want wild, mind-blowing sex and a woman who can offer that."


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## leftfield

JustTheWife said:


> i don't think very many get this...yes...the mind and soul in addition to the body. Some guys aren't dominant at all. Some just focus on dominating the body. The absolute best experiences are when your soul and mind are completely controlled and manipulated. You come away questioning who you even are. You're stripped to the core. So intense. I think very few guys know how to do this (combined with the desire to). Takes a huge amount of intelligence.


I would love to hear some pointers if you have any to share.


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