# Revealing sources



## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

As the LS - we all have sources (email, friends, text, keyloggers, etc.) that we use to get info about what our DS has been doing. Some of which they have volunteered, others which we are doing secretly (i.e. snooping.)

How much snooping is good snooping? It feels so wrong, yet I can't regain that trust without it. Am I satisfying myself or just controlling her? 

Obviously I've learned things from snooping that have confirmed/refuted what she is up to. It just feels all so wrong. I'd love to hear how others deal with this.

Thank you.


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## Forsaken (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm not sure how much is too much, but I do know that it can make you go insane, especially when you find absolutely nothing, so be careful.


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## HurtAndLost (Jul 8, 2011)

Forsaken said:


> I'm not sure how much is too much, but I do know that it can make you go insane, especially when you find absolutely nothing, so be careful.


Agree. The act of snooping in and of itself can become an obsession... to know everything. And that's damaging enough when you've never been a snooper before.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

You haven't really given us much information in your post. However, if you are inclined to snoop, there must be a reason. Your spouse has betrayed your trust. You are at that point where you don't know what to believe. You simply need answers. There's nothing wrong with "snooping" in this situation. It is justified and you should not feel guilty. Your wife is the one to blame for that. She created doubt in your mind.


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## Craggy456 (Feb 22, 2011)

Personally, I need to know everything! I want to know who, when, how long, what she looks like, did he buy things for her, our house or hers, admit he's married.......

Since the last blowout a few days ago, he has once again changed all of his passwords and I can't get access to anything and it's driving me crazy.


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## Forsaken (Feb 14, 2011)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you will never know everything. Even if you are told everything and you see/hear everything, your mind will not allow you to believe it. You mind will think that there's more and you will feel as if more happened and you aren't being told the whole truth.

I feel this way daily. I think it's just because things were so secretive and I have no trust in my S so it eats at me and sometimes I think everyone is lying to me and I'm not being told the whole story, that I'm only being told what they want me to know.

"Snooping" as you put it has only made things worse for me because I haven't found anything. Well I did find out that the OM tried talking to my W on FB a few days after she aggreed to NC and then she lied to me about him trying to talk to her, she lied a lot around that time. So I guess I just feel like I'm being lied to and/or it went underground.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think snooping is great, it *now* validateds my WW. 
In the begaining there were enough red flags to justify her loss of privacy, and now that shes caught it is now a consequence for her to longer have privacy.

When she wanted me to keep her, it was my #2 rule (#1 is NC) no secrets and full disclosure under my terms. This included picking up her cell and looking at when ever I damb well please.

Granted it was tough in the begining, to pry it from her cold cheating hands, but it was her choice to stay and those were my terms.

I guess I'm wierd b/c I have not one problem with taking this control in protecting me from any more deciet.

On her end, she has no secrets so there is no longer an issue, I snoop away and often infront of her.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

It is easy to get carried away with the snooping. I could probably qualify as a CIA agent now that I took it so serious. lol Just don't let it become an obsession. I don't know where the line is, I just know I crossed it. 

If you reveal the sources, she will likely take it deeper underground. I did and she did.

If she is not showing full transparency, she has something to hide. After a while, you learn to just trust your gut. After the surveillance validates it enough, you don't even need the surveillance. Your gut is probably right. Mine always was.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm not getting full transparency - that's the problem. She hoards her cell, deletes texts & emails, etc.

(Background - married 16 yrs, 3 kids, wife having a EA, believes he is her destiny even though he is married, 3 kids, 1000+ miles away and doesn't seem to feel the same about her)

It is definitely eating me up. My IC is telling me to stop snooping. She says that it doesn't matter, that my W will do what she wants anyway. IC wants me to emotionally detach (180?) so that I just don't care anymore what she does. 

I guess the crux is I don't want to look foolish. Why should I be putting an effort into R, when she continues to contact the OM. And before you flame me about NC, etc. the more I push, the more underground it will go. Ultimatums won't work - yet.


HiT - I learned a lot from your experience. Your mind can fool you. I know realize that going with my gut is where I need to be.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Walt,
You will not look like a fool as long as you do a hard 180.

You will how ever look foolish to tell her you love her, show her affection and make any attemp to get close to her.

Face it as long as she continues contact with OM your effort to R are worthless. 

Stop begging for the R you can't do this alone, so distance your self until she does the NC. Until she can give her self completely back to you then you need to move on.


Its one thing to snoop so one can confront and expose, it another thing to snoop to validate and confirm, but when it is plain as day that she will not be as transparent and forthcoming as she needs to be, and it is plain as day she is still hiding, then what is the point.

Assume the worst and as long as you do the 180 you will not look like a fool.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Walt said:


> It is definitely eating me up. My IC is telling me to stop snooping. She says that it doesn't matter, that my W will do what she wants anyway. IC wants me to emotionally detach (180?) so that I just don't care anymore what she does.


I agree with your therapist after learning more about your situation. My IC also told me to go that route. Certainly allowing myself to detach from the estranged husband emotionally benefited me. And by doing so it gave a new perspective. My estranged husband didn't even notice the changes in me. It was then that I realized he was already gone.




Walt said:


> Why should I be putting an effort into R, when she continues to contact the OM. And before you flame me about NC, etc. the more I push, the more underground it will go. Ultimatums won't work - yet.


There's absolutely no reason to be working on reconciliation at this point. Until your wife drops the other man, it's pointless. It takes two people to make a marriage work and you don't have that. I think an ultimatum is precisely what you need. The cake eating needs to stop now. Either she commits to your marriage, or she packs her things and moves out. You have nothing to lose.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

She cannot work on the marriage if she is contacting OM. 

Every day she is in contact with other man just sends her deeper under. It is a related rates problem. 

Besides working on yourself, what do the MC and IC say should be done? Give her space and support while she goes deeper into the affair. How does she justify staying in the affair and yet expect you to support her? There is no weening off and affair. It can run its course certainly.

Have you gotten with the lawyer yet? I would at least be getting my finances separated and there would be no credit cards for my wife who is involved with OM.


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## cindysue77 (Jul 23, 2011)

We snoop because there is something in us telling us that something just isn't quite right. You are seeing some type of red flag. Just be careful, because it is very likely you will find your confirmation. Then you will have even tougher questions to answer...what to do next.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

In these times of lethal STDs it is a rational decision to snoop on a potentially cheating spouse to verify they are not putting your health at risk.

But how long this is justified depends on your situation.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

jemjester made a very good page about snooping in her Betrayed Spouse Bill Of Rights

Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights « betrayed but recovering

But this is all for naught if she is still in contact with the OM. If she is still in contact, the EA is still on and R is not possible. An ultimatum is exactly what he needs.

*Betrayed Spouses Bill of Rights*​
_In a world where a marriage is as likely to end as not, we sometimes forget what a partnership is in the early days after discovery of infidelity. We lose ourselves in the desperation to hold onto your loved one. Remembering your rights will help you no matter which path your marriage takes.​_ 
1- You have a right to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. By having an affair, your spouse has closed off the relationship with you and opened one with the OP (other person). You have a right to insist this is reversed for your healing and to assure that loyalties have been realigned.

2- You have the right to trust- but verify. Trust has been broken, ‘snooping’ is not snooping. It is verifying that someone proven to be a liar, sneak and cheat has changed their ways. Like an addict, a WS(wayward spouse) will often go back to their emotional fix. You have a right to verify this is not happening.

3- You have the right to insist there are only two people in the marriage. That choice was made when you made vows to each other. Even a moment with a third person is too much. You owe your WS no time to ‘think about it’. There’s a marriage or there’s none.

4- You have a right to know who the OP is, the flip of this is you do not have a right to harm or harass this person. Hold yourself to a better standard than the OP did.

5- You have the right to choose to give the gift of reconciliation or to divorce. You have the right to take some time to make that choice. If you one day realize you cannot live with the truth of what has been done, you have the right to walk away.

6- You have the right to insist your WS gets STD testing done and to see the results. Even if the WS claims it has not gotten physical, as many WSs will admit to “only a kiss” when it has gone much further.

7- You have the right to insist that your WS initiates and honors NC (no contact) immediately. You have a right to have input and to be a witness to how NC is established.

8- You have a right to set and enforce boundaries. This is not blackmail or any of the other negative words your WS might use. This you protecting yourself.

9- You have a right to hold onto evidence for as long as you need it to feel safe. Your WS has created an atmosphere of risk and danger. It is natural to have a safety net to counteract what has been brought into your marriage.

10- You have a right to know who your WS’s friends are and the nature of their interactions. If it is kept a secret, it is not healthy for the marriage and therefore something is amiss.

11- You have the right to out the affair to anyone you deem will help you and/or your marriage. This is not your secret to keep, this is not your shame to hold. You owe no protection to those that failed to protect you.

12- You have a right to heal on your timeline. As long as you are making steady progress, you are healing. It is a slow process and a WS that says things along the lines of, “You’ll never get over this!” does not have a full grasp of the damage betrayal causes. This is a healing process that takes from 18 months to five years.

13- You have a right to yell, cry, fall apart and otherwise handle this in any way that relieves some of the devastating pain, shock and loss of trust. Your world has been turned on its end. You do not have the right to physically, verbally or otherwise abuse your spouse.

14- You have the right to insist on a true marriage. A marriage of partners, where you love, honor and protect each other. If you feel your marriage is missing one of these components, either fixing it or leaving are your only two options. You don’t have the right to cheat and/or turn someone else into a betrayed spouse.

15- You have a right to love yourself. Often the betrayed have forgotten themselves as an individual. This is the optimum time to remind yourself that you are unique and lovable in your own right. That as much as you might love your spouse, you should love yourself enough to refuse any sort of mistreatment.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

Given what's happened, you have a right to snoop and come forward with what you find.

Your thread seems more about: snooping makes you feel dirty, you never feel you can know everything, and what to do with the things you find.

If the purpose of snooping is to make you feel better/regain trust and this is not happening because you wonder what else is out there ? Maybe the right amount for you is 0.

Through my wifes EA/PA I have sometimes thought about police gathering evidence on criminals (I'm not a lawyer and live in Canada)

If a police officer breaks into your house without a warrant and finds pot this evidence is not admissible.

Somehow I think in a perfect world BS/DS through R must establish a system that gives BS what he/she needs to heal (like the warrant). Everyone would probably have different needs in terms of the amount of info they would need.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Snooping sure can be an obsession... in my case there is no chance of R, she wants divorce and I can accept that, we are being amicable as possible and trying for uncontested, yet I still take any chance I can get to find dirt from either before she separated or even now that she is living as a single. At some point I realize I have to let go, and I think until the D goes through I am comfortable enough with myself to handle whatever dirt I happen to find out, in fact I do find out little bits of "dirt" if you call it that and for the most part it no longer affects me deeply, though it does influence my emotions somewhat.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I'll add to the Lord's post - there a phones from the big box she can buy and you would never know it, same with emails and other FB accounts. Util she is remorseful and committed to R, you cannot change her mind and force it. Snooping is false security under those circumstances. Require NC and a NC letter. Require full transparency and an opening of honesty with no hidden accounts or otherwise. If you knew me you would know I'm very pro- reconciliation - but under these circumstances there is not a chance until she commits. Close all accounts and transfer funds only you can access. See a lawyer and present her with a separation agreement with Divorce in time to come. She will probably turn then.


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