# How can I ever trust her again?



## ta1971 (Nov 4, 2011)

Wife had an EA which she admitted, then I found out it was a PA by surveillance. She had lied to me repeatedly telling me there was nothing physical going on. PA was done in our car which I had bugged. I believe that the affair is over, mainly because the OM is married and has backed off, he may be scared that I will out him, which he damn well should be, I still go back and forth on that daily. I haven't mainly because I realize I had a part in this. Since then I have completely changed (I was admittedly a neglectful husband in the past) and we are trying very hard to have a loving and fulfilling relationship. I see that her focus has come back to me and our two kids, she was very distant during the EA/PA. But I cannot get over the blatant lying during the entire affair. She was telling me the entire time that she loved me only and that this was just a 'friend' that she needed for conversation. Once I found out the truth, she then told me that at that time she wasn't sure she wanted to be married anymore and was lost. Now she says she's clear that she wants to be married to me. How can I believe she isn't lying now? 

She has done everything I have asked, albeit begrudgingly. I feel justified in asking her when/where she goes, monitoring phone, email, etc. She feels that I should trust her. I am clearly nowhere near trusting her yet. What moron would trust her at this point? It has been 6 months since I found out, 3 months since it ended. It was with a coworker so I have to deal with her seeing him every day, and wondering if anything is going on. She assures me that there is nothing. I can't stop focusing on what she is wearing, if she shaved, etc etc. 

She is required to tell me who she is eating lunch with and where so that if I want to I can go by and check. I don't want to live like this forever it is exhausting but right now it is the only way I can cope without kicking her out on the street. I am so angry and fearful everyday. My best friend has become my enemy. I am so upset with her for bringing this on, turning me into a spy. I just want to get back to normal, or as close as possible. 

I have told her that there are to be NO LIES during this period. But I realize that I may be a little to stringent with that rule. I mean everyone lies sometimes to buy themselves time. 'I just left the office' when you have been gone a while because you want to shop or just drive around and think for a while. Unfortunately, she has made innocent lies like this a red flag to me that she is cheating. 

Will this ever go away? I have read others say 2-5 years, I'm not sure I'll make it that long without losing it. I feel better for a while, then something sets me off (she takes 30 minutes longer to get home for example) and I go into freak out mode. 

I can't expect her to be perfect, how do I ease up without my mind running rampant with thoughts of what/who she's doing?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

It doesn't sound to me like she is doing everything she can. She should be willing to chop off her left arm for you right now, not grudgingly agreeing to transparency!!

I still do not trust my husband 100% and it's been since March 2010 for us. but I am slowly getting there. And he IS doing everything right. If your wife continues to resist, I wouldn't stay with her. I wouldn't be with my husband if he wasn't falling over himself to prove he's trustworthy now. No way.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Since Jan 2011 and I still don't 100% trust him.

It'll never be the same ever again. It can't be. It can be a good different if both are willing to work on it but never the same again.

She shouldn't be grudgingly willing, she should be all out willing without grudges without whining. It's her heavy lifting she has to do to repair damage she did. That's not remorse, that's feelings of guilt.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Expose the affair to the other man's wife - so they aren't tempted to resume when you aren't looking. Your wife will be upset about it, but she'll get over it.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

You can never recover as long as she works with OM. If she is truly committed to recovery, she will leave her job immediately. Every time she sees him, even in passing, she takes a step back into affairland and a step away from recovery. I know that sounds drastic, but that is simply the consequences of her betrayal.

I know you may think you need the money, but what is more important, your marriage or some money? 

By the way, she should be willingly transparent and be agreeable to your spying as long as it takes for you to become comfortable trusting her. You aren’t the one that created the environment of distrust. It was her.


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## ta1971 (Nov 4, 2011)

I agree with you. However, I do feel like there is no way that people can be 100% transparent. At some point we all need a little privacy. I have thought long and hard about this, if the situation were reversed, how would I handle the 50 questions a day, the harping on little details, the constant surveillance. I'm not sure I'd hold up as well as she has. She gets frustrated because in 3 months of this, there has been no evidence of anything, and she says I need to move on. I tell her I'm not there yet, and she has to be patient. She then calms down, and we take it day by day again. The suspicion is making us both crazy. I am begrudgingly spying on her. I honestly hate it. But I feel like right now I have to continue verifying everything she says.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

If the situation were reversed, you would owe her total transparency. I know it seems like overkill, but it's unfortunately the price of cheating.

I also say again that you can never recover until sh eleaves her job or OM leaves the job. THey cannot work together and your marriage recover. YOu can choose to ignore this but you will be back here soon because the affair has restarted or maybe it never ended.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

If she is still working with the OM then that is just asking for further problems and trust issues.

If the marriage was the number one priority this would have been done a long time ago. Also the affair should have been exposed to the OMW. If the wife will not quit the job then the affair should be exposed at work. It was unclear but since the ex was in the car one has to assume that this was work related time.

The above goes a long way towards transparency and trust.

Good luck.


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## ta1971 (Nov 4, 2011)

dadof3, I don't want to do that because 
1. I played a big role in this which I admit fully. 
2. She initiated the affair. In fact, in the audio I've got he is actually telling her he has to go and she is pleading with him no. (try getting that out of your head...) 
3. I wanted it to stop without my interference. I was hoping that she would learn that he isn't the answer to her dreams, which she did. If I had dropped the dime, it would have always been my fault that they didn't run away and live happily ever after together. 

Still, I have everything ready to go with a click of the mouse. 

LostCPA, unfortunately that is not an option. If she leaves the job, financially we are in trouble and she cannot work anywhere else right now (for reasons I can't explain) 
As much as I would LOVE for her to leave the job, there are men in every office, if she stays at home there are men neighbors. I feel like the problems that led to the affair have to be addressed. He is only a symptom. But you're right, it would make me feel better if she quit. Don't think I haven't tried to think of ways to make up the money we would lose.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You will never be able to fully trust her again. Why should you? She was having sex in your car with her lover. How classy is this. She lied right to your face and has put you at risk for STD's. How do you think she would be acting toward you if you humiliated and degraded and disrespected your marriage the way she has done to you? I do hope both of you have been tested for STD's.

You are making a huge mistake not exposing this to the OM's wife. First, if the roles were reversed wouldn't you want to be told instead of being left in the dark?
Second, you are sending a message to the OM that there are no consequences to him to have for having sex with your wife and that you will keep his dirty little secret without any consequences for his behavior. You are in fact telling him that you are a wuss and apparently are afraid of him. Tell the OM's wife today. Not telling is so wrong on so many levels. What are you thinking? Holding it over his head makes you part of the coverup.


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## ta1971 (Nov 4, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> If she is still working with the OM then that is just asking for further problems and trust issues.
> 
> If the marriage was the number one priority this would have been done a long time ago. Also the affair should have been exposed to the OMW. If the wife will not quit the job then the affair should be exposed at work. It was unclear but since the ex was in the car one has to assume that this was work related time.
> 
> ...


affair was exposed at work. Through nothing I did, just sloppiness on their part. That was a big part in ending it, IMO. I think both parties woke up to reality at that point. They basically cannot talk at work anymore. And I know she's not having contact outside of work. I'm not so worried about him anymore as it starting up with someone else. However, we are getting along a lot better, and things are going good at home, which was NOT the case before. I am trying to focus on that, but the little voice keeps creeping up...


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## JustWaiting (Jun 28, 2011)

I strongly suggest you read The Monogamy Myth if you have not already done so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StrangerThanFiction (Jul 19, 2011)

ta1971 said:


> 1. I played a big role in this which I admit fully.


You keep saying this but i'm not sure why. Sure, you may have played a big role in your marriage not being perfect.

But unless you were in the car helping pull their pants off, you didn't play a big role in her choosing an extramarital affair.

The other woman deserves to know so she can make informed choices. And the other man deserves to have this light shined on him, with the side effect potentially being that he discontinues any pursuit of your wife to salvage his own marriage.

Also, I don't get the "need" to lie about things like leaving work early for a drive or to shop???? Why lie?


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

WHOA! The stuff you are allowing is going to hinder your recovery. Trust is just one part of the puzzle....but I don't see that coming back until you get your ducks in a row.

*Here is what I see:*


*"I believe that the affair is over, mainly because the OM is married and has backed off, he may be scared that I will out him, which he damn well should be, I still go back and forth on that daily."*

_You need to tell the OM wife immediately! She deserves to know the truth. Plus exposure is one of the best methods of ending the affair for good. _



*"I haven't mainly because I realize I had a part in this."*

_Bull****! Unless you told your wife to go ahead an sleep with other men. The fact is you don't own any part of the affair. Until you realize this you are going to have a tough time healing and she will have a tough time showing the necessary remorse_.



*"But I cannot get over the blatant lying during the entire affair. She was telling me the entire time that she loved me only and that this was just a 'friend' that she needed for conversation. Once I found out the truth, she then told me that at that time she wasn't sure she wanted to be married anymore and was lost. Now she says she's clear that she wants to be married to me. How can I believe she isn't lying now?"
*


_DON'T believe her. Trust is something that needs to be earned...words mean nothing. Without your constant verification of what she's doing you will never be sure. Earning back trust takes years...not months._


*"She has done everything I have asked, albeit begrudgingly. I feel justified in asking her when/where she goes, monitoring phone, email, etc. She feels that I should trust her."*

_Begrudgingly will not cut it...she should be more than willing to do whatever it takes to *EARN* back your trust. The fact that she feels like you should trust her is irrelevant and could be a sign that the affair is still going on deeper underground._



*"It was with a coworker so I have to deal with her seeing him every day, and wondering if anything is going on. She assures me that there is nothing."*

_I am a *FIRM* believer that if 100% no-contact is not achieved, then the affair is still going on, period! She needs to change jobs. There is no way on earth you will ever feel comfortable with her seeing him at work...never. You will have to force yourself every single day to carry this burden...until she quits and 100% no-contact is the norm._



*"She is required to tell me who she is eating lunch with and where so that if I want to I can go by and check. I don't want to live like this forever it is exhausting but right now it is the only way I can cope without kicking her out on the street. I am so angry and fearful everyday. My best friend has become my enemy. I am so upset with her for bringing this on, turning me into a spy. I just want to get back to normal, or as close as possible."*

_This will be your norm as long as she is still working with the OM. Listen, it has been ten years since my wife had her affair with her co-worker...we made a full recovery...but we would never have made a full recovery if she was still working with her AP. Never, not in a million years! I don't care what she tells you...you need to confirm...go check on her_



*"I have told her that there are to be NO LIES during this period. But I realize that I may be a little to stringent with that rule. I mean everyone lies sometimes to buy themselves time. 'I just left the office' when you have been gone a while because you want to shop or just drive around and think for a while. Unfortunately, she has made innocent lies like this a red flag to me that she is cheating."*

_Your kidding right? You are not being to stringent and no not everyone lies to buy time....but cheaters definitely do. It is this "bought" innocent time...that they use to have the affair in the first place. "I will be late I have to get this project finished....I am going to check out this sale on the way home....I have a crazy boss that needs me to work Saturday...." Come on man...don't be a fool._



*"Will this ever go away? I have read others say 2-5 years, I'm not sure I'll make it that long without losing it. I feel better for a while, then something sets me off (she takes 30 minutes longer to get home for example) and I go into freak out mode."*

_This is a hard road to travel...that is for sure. Yes, 2-5 years is the baseline....If everything is done right you will fall on the short end. Her taking an extra 30 minutes to get home is inexcusable... during the recovery process her accountability is going to be paramount to your sanity. If she wants to earn your trust again she is going to have to fix her tardiness and effectively communicate why she is running late...BEFORE...(key word)...BEFORE...she shows up late. My wife was a saint when it came to this...when she new she would be late, which was very rare during recovery, she would call me and keep me on the phone with her the entire ride home....this wen't a long way in showing she understood the damage she did...and that her running late would send me down a rabbit hole of horrible visions....I really appreciated the fact that she did this for me.
_



*"I can't expect her to be perfect, how do I ease up without my mind running rampant with thoughts of what/who she's doing?"*

_No you can't...and if you don't communicate why you expect a certain behavior, she will more than likely continue doing the wrong things. Look, she's home and at least playing lip service to the recovery right now...not bad in the short amount of time that has passed. But....you are going to have to make some real adjustments if you really want thing thing to move forward in a positive direction._


Good Luck.


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## ta1971 (Nov 4, 2011)

bryanp said:


> You will never be able to fully trust her again. Why should you? She was having sex in your car with her lover. How classy is this. She lied right to your face and has put you at risk for STD's. How do you think she would be acting toward you if you humiliated and degraded and disrespected your marriage the way she has done to you? I do hope both of you have been tested for STD's.
> 
> You are making a huge mistake not exposing this to the OM's wife. First, if the roles were reversed wouldn't you want to be told instead of being left in the dark?
> Second, you are sending a message to the OM that there are no consequences to him to have for having sex with your wife and that you will keep his dirty little secret without any consequences for his behavior. You are in fact telling him that you are a wuss and apparently are afraid of him. Tell the OM's wife today. Not telling is so wrong on so many levels. What are you thinking? Holding it over his head makes you part of the coverup.


was advised by a very good friend who went through the same thing and DID expose it to the wife that it really didn't help his situation, in fact it just ended the marriage quicker. I really don't feel that it's my responsibility to inform his wife of this, she should be keeping up with him. My focus is on my children and my marriage. And I am going to do whatever it takes to keep my family together. I chose to take a 'cooler head' approach. If I had done half of the things that were going through my head in heated moments I would be writing this from jail right now. So I am instead trying to focus on my marriage instead of seeing how much destruction I can cause. I have been down that road before in my life, and it wasn't a scenic route. 

I also need to clarify, the PA in the car was not sex, it was just fooling around. She denies sex emphatically. To me, it doesn't really matter, the betrayal is there with or with the sex.


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## ta1971 (Nov 4, 2011)

'My wife was a saint when it came to this...when she new she would be late, which was very rare during recovery, she would call me and keep me on the phone with her the entire ride home....this wen't a long way in showing she understood the damage she did...and that her running late would send me down a rabbit hole of horrible visions....I really appreciated the fact that she did this for me.'

she has started doing this also with me. It has done wonders for us. In fact, she has started generally being available by cell at all times, something she started on her own. There have been a lot of things like that she has done, without me asking. I am just trying to figure out when I can start to ease up. I think it will just happen when it happens. I'm already getting to the point where I don't want to sit on the phone with her the entire way home. I do have a life I need to focus on, which has been sorely neglected during this time.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Here we go with the "you NEED to expose to the OM wife immediately!!!!!' stuff again *SIGH* I know you all think that exposure is of ultimate importance, but I will say again: it is NOT always such a great idea. Browbeating every BS who comes here into telling the OP's spouse is not a great idea. Suggest it, sure, but don't make people think it's an absolute MUST.

This guy obviously doesn't think it's warranted right now and I agree with him.

ta1971, it's a long tough road. Your old marriage is over and done with. Hopefully you will be able to build a new one with your wife. Don't set time limits on yourself. Your wife needs to understand that it isn't optional for her to do what YOU need her to. If that means answering the same questions fifty thousand times, then that's what it means. You need to know the answer is still the same.

I STILL ask questions that I have asked before. It used to upset my husband more than it does now. He knows it's one thing I need to heal.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

To quote the great President Ronald Reagan, "trust but verify". I was just looking thought my wife's cell phone at 3AM this morning. I trust her, but I think it is prudent to verify.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> To quote the great President Ronald Reagan, "trust but verify". I was just looking thought my wife's cell phone at 3AM this morning. I trust her, but I think it is prudent to verify.


I pray the best for the both of you but......

i get the feeling/impression that there may be more going on than even u know. i.e., there may be other "incidents" you dont know about nor has she revealed.

based on the way u've written, i'm sure u'll deny it all (they always do...sigh).

also, at a minimum, methinks most couples go wrong because
true intimacy is sooooo hard to accomplish, especially on a frequent, if not daily basis. 

if she were able to say "i really struggled with temptation(s)
back in 2003 or "u didnt pay attn to me back in ...." or my Dad
cheated on my Mom, sorry i never told u" kind of stuff, then 
maybe i'd feel soooo confident that she were honest n frank with me about this PA or anything for that matter.

especially true, if she were able to open up & say how u r lacking in the bedroom or she is inhibited, etc etc.
(yeah, i know, things are grrrreat for u two there...read this
before too....right)

anyhewwww, honesty/frankness/revealing whats going on & has been going on in that lil' brain of hers is what counts most
to my believing anything, or hoping for anything to improve in
the future. o/wise, yer just living a "lie" with too much stuff 
swept under the carpet just so u can have some kind of
psuedo security, in the form of sexual/financial/social partnership with a familar, comfy woman u'd like to think u know.

kinda harsh, for me, i know but, just have to share my 
"impressions" based on what u have written here at TAM.
if it makes u feel better, know that u arent the only one.

if my marriage was "exposed" like yers, believe me i'd be
harshly contemplating all this & my dependency weaknesses
to boot.

remember, i pray the best for u, & that i am wrong.

shalom


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## ta1971 (Nov 4, 2011)

cb45 said:


> I pray the best for the both of you but......
> 
> i get the feeling/impression that there may be more going on than even u know. i.e., there may be other "incidents" you dont know about nor has she revealed.
> 
> ...


not sure if that was directed at me or at the reagan quote. But if it was to me, I won't deny anything I know about. For the stuff I don't know about, well I can't deny or confirm that, obviously. 

I think I was pretty upfront about my failings in the marriage, and she has also. We have serious intimacy issues that we are working on very diligently. Whether there were incidents in the past to me is irrelavent. I have enough to worry about in the present and future without delving into the past. I know past can be prologue, but I am looking to clean the slate. My feeling is this: Now that we are trying to work things out, she has no justification. So if it happens now, she is just a cheat, period. I have to give it this chance, just as she gave me chance after chance to be a better husband. Am I excusing her? absolutely not! But I am saying that to build our marriage back I have to eventually trust her. You can't have a long term relationship with one partner on a chain. It just doesn't work for long. She should, I agree, be willing to do it while I get over the affair. But to say that I will never get over it, well that is saying that we should divorce. I am not willing to do that at this point, despite what anyone says or advises. 

Of course we have problems, and those problems aren't going to just be undone overnight. They took years to develop, and they'll take lots of time to be resolved.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

So you don't wanna be a parole officer----

You can ease up anytime you want---just put in some boundaries, and make sure she knows the one and only consequence is D.

Make her sign a POST--NUP with a duress cluase.

Tell her you are going to stop monitering her, and give the mge., a chance, but that you want access to all her electronics, at any time---You want a call immediately if anything is out of the ordinary---she takes the kids with her, when she goes on errands, and she has no contact with men for any reason, also she is to never be on ANY social websites.

Tell her to start looking for another job, she can stay where she is, but if something else comes up, of equal or close value, she leaves this job immediately

As to you telling the other wife---this is a must----1st she will aid you in watching the 2 spouses, and keeping them OUT OF CONTACT, and 2ndly she deserves to know----if she had found out 1st you would have wanted her to let you know----whatever your problems were that you say caused all of this, I imagine you being selfish was one of them, for your nasty comment about let the other wife, watch her H., was pure selfishness on your part---she is entitled to know, that she has scum for a H., ---- what she does with the info. is not of your concern, but in many cases if she is responsible, she would/will help you to control the cheaters, in case there is still spark there.


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