# Need man's advice - am I needy or expect too much?



## Oneday (Apr 21, 2009)

Alittle background on us... Im 31, 10 year old son, work PT (professional). Him, 35, 12 year old daughter, works 2 jobs (4pm - 7am). Together 5 1/2 yrs, own a home, wedding is october 2009. 
We have had ups and downs as any relationship, but he proposed 12/06, I went thru a mini-midlife crisis, got cold feet and cancelled the wedding July 08. I kicked him out in July, immediately regretted it, and worked my butt off to prove I wanted to make it work, I proposed to him in November, and he moved back in Dec 08, wedding is on for Oct this year. Heres my issues...He has always worked alot but even more so now, so we don't spend alot of time together - when he is home he wants to sleep and im lonely from being home alone and want to talk his ear off - he's not a big communicator and gets annoyed BUT his text msging goes crazy and it seems like he's texting novels to his friends instead of talking to me. He was never overly affectionate, but since December (when he came back home) he has been alot less affectionate. I have been very jeleous and obsessed with the thought that he's cheating (there has been occasional suspicious behavior, like a customer texting him, inviting him out, etc, but it was platonic, I THINK) He went through a bout of deprression in October/November and went on meds for a few months, he felt he was better so he went off them. He goes through periods of being interested in sex, and other times where he doesn't want to be bothered with it. He has no interest in helping me plan our wedding, just tells me to do what ever I want. I have a bad habit of nagging about sex, complaining about the time he spends with me, the lack of affection, and the fact that his phone is glued to his fingers texting all the time. Obviously he loves me or he wouldnt be living here, remodeling our house. I try to stop myself and bite my tounge but sometimes i just can't help it and say what i feel, and he gets irritated. Most of his friends are 7-10 years younger than him and are in serious relationships/ getting married and are mushy and affectionate with their women. I bring it up and get excuses like: "they're young, or they'll break up in 6 months, or it's new, that stuff fades." We haven't gotten married yet and it seems like he takes me for granted and the lovey dovey time is over. Or am I just being needy, naggy and don't understand how a man operates? Please, opinions needed!!


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## Oneday (Apr 21, 2009)

anyone?


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

1. Is he working 2 jobs because you guys need the money?

2. So he works 15ish hours a day, is remodeling your house, and doing some other stuff...how much does he sleep? 5? 6? hours a night?

My opinion on why he's not that affectionate or wanting more sex/etc is because he is overworked and/or stressed out about having to work so hard to provide and remodel the house at the same time. 

I'm not saying he's perfect, I mean if he's texting really as much as you say (give us a number, once an hour? 100 times an hour?) he obviously could spend more time with you. However, you need to cut him some slack with how much he's working.

You really think he has had time to cheat? Working 80 hours a week, remodeling a home, having 2 kids, a fiance, etc...he has to sleep about 50 hours a week somewhere. If he's putting 15-20 hours a week into the house remodeling? That's already 150 hours a week gone in just work, sleep, and remodeling...there's only 168 hours in the week...


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## Oneday (Apr 21, 2009)

He sleeps from 10am til about 4pm, so about 6 hrs a day. I DEFINATELY know hes stressed, overworked and overtired. I have a Master's degree so my 20 hour a week job makes what he makes at a 40 hour a week job. We don't NEED the extra $, so its more or less his spending money, but he wanted to pursue it as a career so i supported him (unfortunately the economy is bad, especially in our area so the possibility of him opening his own shop is not there for a long while...) he is basically working the other job because he wants to. When we talked about it initially I didnt anticipate him keeping both jobs for this long and lately it doesnt look like its ending any time soon. I would say text msgs come in starting when he wakes up at 4pm and is usually nonstop for the next half hr til he leaves for work (im sure it continues at work) He gets texts at 7:30 am when hes coming in the door, and he has a few friends that text him all night at his other job. On the bill his average # of texts is about 2-3 thousand a month (incoming and ooutgoing) (the bill shows the number of calls and texts but is not detailed so i dont know to who) His best friend travels for work so i know alot of the texts are from him, also a few other guys he works with and a few random friends (male and female). Then again, sometimes a weekend will go by and he wont get a single text. I do understand his point of view of feeling tired, stressed, etc, but it literally only takes a minute to give a tight hug, long kiss, etc. And since hes working there by choice, my feeling is if he has no appointments, why he cant take a few hours off and go in at say, 7pm instead of 4:30? Hes afraid if hes not there he wont get any of the walk-ins, or book appointments from the people that call, but whats the point in working so hard and so much when the people who care about you someday just leave because you couldnt make time for them?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Oneday-

There are many threads like yours on this forum. Surely if you are about to get married, you should be displaying a high degree of love and affection towards each other. I think you should delay the wedding indefinitely until everything feels peaceful. He will make even less effort after you are married. And no you're not being over-demanding wanting lots of affection. Why on earth would you want to marry if there is not plenty of affection. You have much to sort out.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Five Stages of Marriage by Michelle Weiner Davis

Stage 1: Passion prevails

Like people, marriages also go through different developmental stages and predictable crises.

Everyone is familiar with the infancy stage of marriage — the "honeymoon period" — but what happens after that? Because people are unfamiliar with the emotional terrain, the normal hills and valleys of marriage, predictable transitional periods are often misunderstood, causing overreactions. Those who manage to weather these universal stormy periods usually come out the other side with greater love and commitment to their spouses. That’s why I want to offer you a marriage map.

The marriage map is meant to give you a broad overview’ of the experiences most couples have when they negotiate the marital terrain. As you read through these stages and developmental passages, don’t get too hung up on the timetable. Some couples move through these stages more quickly than others, and some bypass certain stages entirely.

Head over heels in love, you can’t believe how’ lucky you are to have met your one and only star-crossed lover. Everything other than the relationship quickly fades into the background. Much to your amazement, you have so much in common: You enjoy the same hobbies, music, restaurants, and movies. You even like each other’s friends. You can finish each other’s sentences. When you pick up the phone to call your partner, s/he is already on the line calling you. You are completely in sync. When little, annoying things pop up, they’re dismissed and overlooked.

At no other time in your relationship is your feeling of well-being and physical desire for each other as intense as it is during this romantic period. The newness and excitement of the relationship stimulates the production of chemicals in your bodies that increase energy and positive attitudes, and heighten sexuality and sensuality. Never, never, have you felt this way before. ‘It must be love," you tell yourself. While in this naturally produced state of euphoria, you decide to commit to spending the rest of your lives together. "And why not," you reason, ‘we’re perfect together." And marry, you do. Unless you elope or opt for a simple, judge’s chambers-style wedding, your euphoria takes a temporary nose-dive as you plan and execute your wedding. Once you get past the superhuman challenges of dealing with family politics and hosting a modern-day wedding, your starry-eyed obsession with each other reemerges and takes you through the honeymoon period. And for a period of time, nothing could be more glorious. But soon, your joy gives way to an inevitable earth-shattering awakening; marriage isn’t at all what you expected it to be.

Stage 2: What was I thinking?

In some ways, Stage 2 Is the most difficult because it is here that you experience the biggest fall. After all, how’ many miles is it from bliss to disillusionment? Millions. What accounts for this drastic change in perspective? For starters, reality sets in: The little things start to bother you. You realize that your spouse has stinky breath in the morning, spends way too long on the toilet, leaves magazines and letters strewn on the kitchen counter, never wraps fo9d properly before it’s put in the refrigerator, and to top things off, snores. There are big things too.

Although you once thought you and your spouse were kindred spirits, you now realize that there are many differences between you. Although you share interests in hobbies, you disagree about how often you want to participate in them. You like the same kinds of restaurants, but you enjoy eating out often while your partner prefers staying home and saving money. Your tastes in music at-c compatible, but you prefer quiet time in the evening while your mate enjoys blasting the stereo. You have manY common friends, but you can t agree on which nights to see them. You’re confused about what’s going on. You argue. You knew life wouldn’t always be a bed of roses, but you never thought all you’d get was thorns. You feel disillusioned and you wonder if you made a mistake.

Ironically, it is in the midst of feeling at odds with your once kindred spirit that you are faced with making all sorts of life-altering decisions. For example, it is now that you decide whether and when to have children, where to live, who will support the family, who will handle the bills, how your free time will be spent, how in-laws fit into your lives, and who will do the cooking. Just at the time when a team spirit would have conic in mighty handy, spouses often start to feel like opponents. So they spend the next decade or so trying to "win" and get their partners to change, which triggers stage 3.

Stage 3: Everything would be great ii you changed

In this stage of marriage, most people believe that there are two ways of looking at things, your spouse’s way and your way, also known as the Right Way. Even if couples begin marriage with the enlightened view’ that there are many valid perspectives on any given situation, they tend to develop severe amnesia quickly. And rather than brainstorm creative solutions, couples often battle tenaciously to get their partners to admit they are wrong. Thai’s because every point of disagreement is an opportunity to define the marriage. Do it my wag, and the marriage will work, do it yours and it won’t.

When people are in this state of mind, they have a hard time understanding why their spouses are so glued to their way of seeing things. They assume it must be out of stubbornness, spitefulness or a need to control. What they don’t realize is that their spouses are thinking the same thing about them! Over time, both partners dig in their heels deeper. Little or no attempt is made to see the other person’s point of view for fear of losing face or worse yet, losing a sense of self.

Now’ is the time when many people face a fork iii the marital road. They don’t want to go on this way. Three choices become apparent. Convinced they’ve tried everything, some people give up. They tell themselves they’ve fallen out of love or married the wrong person. Divorce seems like the only logical solution. Other people resign themselves to the status quo and decide to lead separate lives. Ultimately, they live unhappily ever after. But there are others who decide that it’s time to end the cold war and begin to investigate healthier and more satisfying ways of interacting. Although the latter option requires a major leap of faith, those who take it are the fortunate ones because the best of marriage is yet to come.

Stage 4: That’s just the way any partner is

In Stage 4. we finally come to terms with the fact that we are never going to see eye to eye with our partners about everything and we have to figure out what we must do to live more peaceably We slowly’ accept that no amount of reasoning, begging, nagging, yelling, or threatening changes our partners minds. We look to others for suggestions; we seek religious counsel, talk to close friends and family, attend marital therapy, read self-help books, or take a relationship seminar. Those of us who are more private look inward and seek solutions there.

We more readily forgive our spouse for his/her hard-headedness, and recognize that we aren’t exactly easy to live with either. We dare to ask ourselves whether there’s something about our own behavior that could use shaping up. When disagreements occur, we make more of an effort to put ourselves in our partners shoes and, much to our surprise, we have a bit more compassion and understanding. Fights happen less frequently and when they occur, they’re not as intense or as emotional as in the earlier years of marriage. We know how’ to push our partner’s buttons and we consciously decide not to. When we slip, we get better at making up because we remind ourselves that life is short and very little is worth the pain of disharmony. And because were smart enough to have reached this stage, we reap the benefits of the fifth, and final, stage.

Stage 5: Together, at last

It is really a tragedy that half of all couples who wed never get to stage 5, when all the pain and hard work of the earlier stages really begins to pay off. Since you are no longer in a struggle to define who you are and what the marriage should be, there is more harmony. Even if you always have loved your spouse, you start to notice how much you are really liking him or her again. And then the strangest thing starts to happen. You realize that the alien who abducted your spouse in stage 2 has been kind enough to return him/her. You are pleased to discover that the qualities you saw in your partner so very long ago never really vanished. This renews your feelings of connection.

By the time you reach Stage 5, you have a shared history. And although you’d both agree that marriage hasn’t been easy, you can feel proud that you’ve weathered the storms. You appreciate your partner’s sense of commitment and dedication to making your marriage last. You also look back and feel good about your accomplishments as a couple, a family, and as individuals. You feel more secure about yourself as a person and you begin to appreciate your differences. And what you don’t appreciate, you accept. You feel closer and more connected. If you have children, they’re older and more independent, allowing you to focus on your marriage again. You have come full circle. The feeling you were longing for during those stormy periods is back, at last. You’re home again.

I’m certain that if more couples realized that there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, they’d be more willing to tough it out through the downpour. The problem is, most people fool themselves into thinking that whatever stage they are in at the moment, is where they will be forever. That can be a depressing thought when you’re in the midst of hard times. And in marriage, there are lots of hard times—unexpected problems with infertility,, the births of children (marital satisfaction goes down with the ‘birth of each child), the challenges of raking a family, children leaving home, infidelity, illnesses, deaths of close friends and family’ members.

Also, it’s important to remember that people generally don’t go through these stages sequentially. It’s three steps forward and two steps back. Just when you begin to feel more at peace with each other in stage 4, a crisis occurs and you find yourselves slipping back to stage 3. But if you’ve been fortunate enough to have visited stage 4, sanity sets in eventually, and you get back on track. The quality and quantity of love you feel for each other are never stagnant.


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## Oneday (Apr 21, 2009)

Martino,

Wow. WOW. Your post was just amazing! It really lays it out in black and white and makes it much more concrete than the abstract thoughts in my head. When your going through it it seems like there must be something wrong with him, or me or maybe Im just insane, or destined to be alone because I dont have adequate partnership skills but it really puts it in perspective. Right now I see us between stages 3 and 4 - I am begining to see that although I believed things would be better if he, or I , or us changed, we are who we are and moving toward acceptance of the diferences and trying to learn how to ride out the storm. We have had a rocky road (as most rrelationships have) and I know the honeymoon period has been long over. We own a home, have 2 children (not together) both 10+ yrs old. Not planning on having more, and not having the big wedding gala (had it planned 2 years ago and postponed/cancelled it, opting for a small intimate ceremony), so Im not really disillusioned on what I want out of marriage - I believe I have to practice more acceptance, empathy and understanding of his situation and not just my own. Im waiting for my own sanity to set in and hope it doesn't take too long!


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

One thing a great book on marriage once taught me...

You can NEVER change a thing about your spouse, you can only change yourself and the way you REACT to your spouse. Only your spouse can change things about themselves.

Now, the book then went on to talk about how changing yourself for the better, and how you react to your spouse (even the bad things your spouse does that you would normally blow up at) will most of the time cause your spouse to want to change for the better too.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Wife and I are just starting stage 5. (or maybe I am!! lol she's been there for a while) yeah that's a nice article. Good luck.


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## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

Oneday I read your post and I believe your starting into a marriage with huge doubts that are only going to get worse. I have been married 23 years and it is a rough road to get to the sunshine. I would have issues if my wife was texting all the time and not sharing what those text where about. I see a red flag and I would proceed very very slowly. I would not stand at the alter or where ever without feeling 100% sure about going into this marriage.

I feel for you but I think you need to have a long talk with your future husband about the level of openess you want in your marriage. 

God Bless


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## Oneday (Apr 21, 2009)

Happyquest,

I have always had doubts, not so much about him, but doubts about myself in marriage. If I ask who he's texting he tells me, and he doesn't go into the other room or try to hide it from me or anything, it just bothers me because we spend so little time together that when he is home I kind of want his undivided attention (I know alittle selfish of me). We had a talk yesterday and again alittle this morning and he assures me that he loves me, wants to get married and nothing is wrong, but to me it seems either patronizing, or mybe he's tired, or tired of reiterating the same thing over and over to me... I do know that his exwife and him had a big arguement the day before their wedding about basically the same thing - him not expressing his happiness/ excitement over their wedding. I guess it has been a continued problem for him and it might just be that is the way he is? Can people just need need less amounts of affection/ attention/ reassurance from their SO?


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Yes, i've been with women in the past that were much too clingy and needy, emotional baggage. Polar opposite way over to my wife who needs very little emotional support. I will say though, many guys become froze like deer in the headlights when planning a wedding. They leave it all to the wife. Flowers and photographers and meal plates, guys don't usually want to deal with that!! yuck! ha ha


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## Oneday (Apr 21, 2009)

I even changed all the plans so as NOT to stress him. Changed from the big wedding to a ****tail wine party ceremony only, just close family and friends. No meals, no flowers, no stress! If it were just an issue of him being tired I can deal. He has had depression issues in the past and we delt with that together and he was much more verbal with his feelings then, now though, he is just so distant, almost cold in his tone. Not mean at all, just...empty. The words dont seem to have anything behind them. He will tell me what i want to hear, but you know when you listen to someone and look in their eyes if they mean it. I see him doing the motions. This evening he told me he was going to shower and show "it" to me after. After his shower he stood there with a smile just waiting for me to do something (I am aggressive but I wanted him to make the initiative this time) I had to tell him to do something. A quickie, no fireworks, but thats OK (oh, and he didn't "finish" inside me like he has for 5 years...)- after he said "will that hold you over for a while?" I felt like he did it just so i would stop asking for a while - like he wasnt that interested... I tried playfully joking with him like I usually do - making funny faces and asking "do you loooovvvvveee me?" And I just got yeah. When i mention anything bout after the wedding (family plan for insurance - his daughter needs braces, filing mrried on taxes) he shuts it out and changes the subject). Very confused cuz when we had our wedding scheduled the 1st time around he seemed alittle more into it, asking a few questions, like bout the music, and stuff like that... MAYBE my paranoia but seems like he doesnt want to talk bout anything cuz hes not sure the wedding will happen? (OK now im just driving myself even crazier! Why cant you guys come with a manual?)


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

I couldn't agree with Mark Twain more. You need to re-think and decide if you can live with this permanently.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Oneday-

You seem to be one of those people, who when they are confronted with a sea of red flags, complains but does not take heed. Then a full of people tell you "look, those things flapping in the wind are red flags", and still you are in denial.



Oneday said:


> I do know that his exwife and him had a big arguement the day before their wedding about basically the same thing - him not expressing his happiness/ excitement over their wedding. I guess it has been a continued problem for him and it might just be that is the way he is?


This is a huge red flag. Basically, he is not marriage material. Amazingly, people like him can always find someone with their "eyes wide shut", who will marry them anyway.

My advice: if you marry him, be sure to book the attorney well in advance for the forthcoming divorce.


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