# intimacy question



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

being 59 ( widowed by second ) i have been dating for about 1 year 12 years younger lady. we get alone fine ( including her kid ). being intimate for several months ( or trying ) we have difference in this aspect. i have been used to ( and i loved it all my life ) to be able to touch my woman, see her body, kiss/lick private parts, sleep naked or at least half naked. to feel her body i love so much. even i am macho, i have been told i have soul of woman in intimacy aspect. what i get is triple protection ( underwear and pajamas with exception of brief naked when penetrating ). allowed only little touch, no way of going down or holding my hands on her private parts. and command 'stop it' almost always. so we have brief intercourse her way ( missionary, kissing only ), sometimes she comes, sometimes not. i have failed on some occasions ( and she is understanding ) because i need long foreplay without too many restrictions ( like going down ). try to discuss, answer is quarrel and will not happen. 
coming to the point of what to do? i love her and we good with her kid, she loves me ( i believe ) but this intimacy difference can be breaker. and she knows it, considers break ( if i don't accept her way she is ). i would like to but know it is eating me inside and it will backfire if we don't resolve. what do you think? can there be mutual compromise?


----------



## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

I suppose this new woman has been married before as she has a kid. Can you tell us some more about her. In other words was she like this with her first husband.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

she was married briefly for about 2 years. not much LTR in her life.
i had 2 LTR over 13 years each ( second ended with her passing away )
i want it long term but i also think intimacy is such big part of life. dont think i can go without for rest of life. thats how first ended


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Follow your instincts here. You are sexually incompatible and that does not bode well for long term success in a relationship.

I don't blame you a bit for wanting what you want. You know what you like/what your needs are, and there's no point in settling. It will just lead to long term resentment.

Her marriage was brief--its likely her husband discovered the same thing about her that you have, and decided life is too short too!

Plenty of fish in the sea. She sounds uptight, anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

So your first ended that way. Was she the same with her short term husband. 
How did you manage with your first so long. 
Since it is your second time this is happening. Maybe youre doing it wrong and that is putting her off.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Dump her, run...


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Could be a self confidence issue or something dramatic in her past that shaped her views on nudity and physical contact. 

Unless you live in a climate where is it unusually cold and she grew up in the tropics? Then you should try putting a fireplace in the bedroom!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

You are 59 and single. You are at the point in your life that you know what you want. And she aint it. You also know that if she is unwilling to bend for you during the courtship phase how much worse it will be if and when you commit to her monogamously. 
It would be what you already have, but multiplied ten fold.
Run, run, run as fast you can.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

There can be no compromise. You are not sexually/romantically compatible. End of story. You are still too young to give up on another decade or two of wonderful sexual and emotional intimacy. Find another partner who is compatible - there are many women who would love to have a loving and generous partner like you. Why settle for someone who can't or won't appreciate you?


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

er15 said:


> she was married briefly for about 2 years. not much LTR in her life.


Maybe you now know why.

As someone else said she may just not be comfortable with her body. If discussing it hasn't helped and you have made it clear that a "fulfilling, intimate sexual relationship" is important to you and nothing changes, you should probably just move on.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

with first i had to make sure kids are grown up. most of us are parents so we understand.
with my second we were very compatible. maybe that did hold us together until we had no more time left.
current one - i do like she is professional like me, fairly easy going, rational.
just this intimacy is difficult. i have become sarcastic about it at times, she gets very angry when i do, telling me 
how should she get her point across she does not like what i want. i could say the same - how to get my point to her
that it is important to me and maybe seek help may do trick. so far she resists such proposal.
feel bad for her boy, we have become good friends. i like to be part of his life but at what price?


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Accept her as she is despite her faults, or move on! 

Apparently, she's getting what she wants which is light precursory sex, solely on her own terms, while conversely you are not getting your sexual needs and expectations met, thus receiving "the shaft!" If there is real promise there, you can stay and work on it and hope that something will evolve. Otherwise, the status quo is going to make you nothing more than a deprived, horny old man! IMHO, you deserve far better than to be lounging around working on her issues!

Make sure that there's no wedding ring on her finger unless there's a hook in your nose!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

thanks for some good insight. makes more sense why we never had sex until i was about to break with her.


----------



## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Wow. I heard some answers that I certainly didn't like. IF SHE WANT PUT OUT THEN GET OUT. You marry for better or worse, pretty sure the vows say nothing about lack of sex and vanilla sex at that voids the marriage. 

Just throwing this out there. Just maybe she feels loved and close to you. You make her feel safe. For the first time in her life she feels safe. Could past abuse issues be part of the problem. A past rape, a violent lover, a tragic childhood. Sometimes that kind of thing has a huge impact on our love lives. It takes being in a safe and loving relationship sometimes for that kind of thing to come to light. I don't know if that is the problem, I just know that is how it was for me. She sounds a lot like I used to be. 

Having sex when she thinks the relationship may be over is a sign of how much she really loves you. Otherwise she would just let you leave. Have you guys considered marriage counseling. That often helps iron out sexual differences or at the least difference and ways to fix those differences so she will want to have more sex. Maybe even a sex therapist. 

Good luck. If you and your wife love each other, and you have a child, even if it is her child, you have to keep that in mind to. When you married her you gained a family, not just a wife. To me, love and children are not worth tossing away just for sex. All the sex in the world with an evil and cold hearted woman is useless if she is mean and you hate her. But limited sex with someone you love is so much more valuable. Just keep that in mind.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

@Big Mama...
They aren't married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I agree with the other posters... life is too short to spend your time in a relationship that doesn't meet your needs. There is a woman out there who will appreciate all you have to offer, both in and out of the bedroom.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm going to chime in with the same advice as others on this topic. You've found a woman you are not compatible with. I wouldn't be either. All of those things you list would be deal breakers for me.

What I'll add is be honest with her. I suspect she's going to find that unless she changes her views, she's not going to find a guy who will stay with her.


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Big Mama said:


> Wow. I heard some answers that I certainly didn't like. * IF SHE WANT PUT OUT THEN GET OUT*. You marry for better or worse, pretty sure the vows say nothing about lack of sex and vanilla sex at that voids the marriage.
> 
> ...........................


Another saying I like is "On your back or on your way". 

Same as others OP, move on but tell her straight up why. Oh and like a pp said next time don't get so involved with other peoples kids so soon, it isn't fair on them.


----------



## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> @Big Mama...
> They aren't married.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry my bad. Living together. 

Almost the same thing minus the piece of paper that says you are married. But since they are not married that does change things a little. The ability to be able to walk away has become some what easier. Still I believe love is so much more then time in the bed.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

There are two big elephants in the room. 
1) In every sexless relationship one partner is THRILLED about that. That's their goal. Trying to change them will make them resent and hate you as much as you resent and hate them right now. We here seem to take on the burden that all of it one person's problem to 'fix' to 'understand'. But people don't change their core behaviors just because they feel like it. If he or she actually wanted sex they'd have sex. Even bad sex. It's very au courrant to say 'sexless' means <10x/year. But those same studies say anywhere from 40-70% all marriages are sexless. That's a LOT of sex not happening. 

2) We're living in a era where everything is 'normal', everything's 'on a spectrum'. Well ok then. Everything's fine, we agree now stop complaining about it. Spend some time googling 'sexless relationship' and half the responses will come back "And that's ok!" while the other half try to accommodate the therapeutization of that behavior. Oh it's hormones, it's stress, it's fatigue, it's the kids, she put on weight, he sulks... But they mix up normal behaviors with abnormal behaviors, or, sexless really IS the normal. Of course our bodies age or fail us. Of course we get ED or vaginal issues. Of course we have hydraulic problems. Is every part of you broken at the same time? 

And with all this micromanagement - still half of couples toss it in the trash anyway. Maybe a better metric is looking at men and women who REmarry. Are they having more sex as before? The same? Are they any happier? I suspect they are not having more sex even when they divorced because of being sex starved.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Unfortunate that a child is involved. If touching and seeing her body is more important than the other positive aspects of the relationship then you should leave. There is no guarantee that you will find a woman with the qualities of your STBX gf plus likes sex the way you do. 

"Dump her" is common advice here on TAM as if women are in an endless supply and willing to accept any man who looks her way. Also, individual women can easily be thrown away in exchange for a new one. I hope you are realistic enough to know that this is not the case. It sounds like this women has some value to you beyond the kind of sex she can give you. 

If you dump her, you will need to date a number of women, select someone from among them who seems compatible and get to know her over a period of time. You have a set of requirements that you enumerated so she needs to satisfy those. Plus she needs to want a relationship with a man in his 60's. The pool of women may be limited. This women may have more value than you know. "Dump her" is easy to say but you have to live with your choice. 

Think carefully. You can't always get exactly what you want. I am not advising you to settle but to assess the true value of what you have. Don't buy into the "dump her" mind set.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Holland said:


> Another saying I like is *"On your back or on your way". *


Love this! Going to find a way to incorporate this into my daily vernacular...


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Unfortunate that a child is involved. If touching and seeing her body is more important than the other positive aspects of the relationship then you should leave. There is no guarantee that you will find a woman with the qualities of your STBX gf plus likes sex the way you do.
> 
> "Dump her" is common advice here on TAM as if women are in an endless supply and willing to accept any man who looks her way. Also, individual women can easily be thrown away in exchange for a new one. I hope you are realistic enough to know that this is not the case. It sounds like this women has some value to you beyond the kind of sex she can give you.
> 
> ...


Actually, that is exactly what you are advising him to do. He made it clear in his first message just how important sex is to him in a relationship. This isn't a little thing for him. Furthermore, he's expressed this to her, and... she's kind of made it clear that she doesn't give a sh!t about what he wants, and isn't willing to try or make any effort to meet his needs.

The recommendation to break up isn't just about the sex; it's about the fact that she doesn't care about what he wants from the relationship. That's a huge freaking problem. Why should ANYONE stay with a partner who doesn't value the other person's happiness and satisfaction?

Yes, sometimes there are things on which we have to compromise in relationships. Having a partner who prioritizes your needs and wants isn't one of them.

And the woman is clearly frigid. There's something else going with her that he doesn't know about. He should run far, far away.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think this will become a real issue for you as she doesn't seem to want to change. See someone else, probably closer to your own age.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

FeministInPink said:


> Actually, that is exactly what you are advising him to do. He made it clear in his first message just how important sex is to him in a relationship. This isn't a little thing for him. Furthermore, he's expressed this to her, and... she's kind of made it clear that she doesn't give a sh!t about what he wants, and isn't willing to try or make any effort to meet his needs.
> 
> The recommendation to break up isn't just about the sex; it's about the fact that she doesn't care about what he wants from the relationship. That's a huge freaking problem. Why should ANYONE stay with a partner who doesn't value the other person's happiness and satisfaction?
> 
> ...


It is all about sex. He as much as said that. Everyone talks about their sexual needs like the most important thing is to get exactly what you want. We have a list of sex acts and preferences that are absolute requirements. It's not. I have more sex than I need, am I settling? Most would say I am compromising.

Prioritize another person's needs? That sounds nice. Who should prioritize in this case? Him or her? Why is she expected to prioritize his sexual needs and he not do so for her? Adult relationships are exchanges, not at all sacrificial. 

He needs to assess whether the relationship so bad that he would be happier without the gf. Maybe he imagines that he can find someone who will have most of her qualities plus likes sex the way he likes. She sounds like a high quality woman who may be difficult to exchange. If assessing the contribution of the gf to his life is settling then so be it. I think it is just smart. Why should he not decide if is worthwhile to stay and work on the problem.

Nevertheless, is she were here, I would advise her to compromise on the sexual issues. If she loves him and finds the relationship satisfying then she should be open to working on her self confidence to give him more of what he wants. He would be hard to replace. A man of intelligence who is thoughtful enough to ask for advice, who appreciates many of her qualities, who is sexually attracted to her and who is so attached to her child. It would be foolish to make him so unhappy over the removal of a few items of clothing that he is considering leaving the relationship.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> It is all about sex. He as much as said that. Everyone talks about their sexual needs like the most important thing is to get exactly what you want. We have a list of sex acts and preferences that are absolute requirements. It's not. I have more sex than I need, am I settling? Most would say I am compromising.
> 
> Prioritize another person's needs? That sounds nice. Who should prioritize in this case? Him or her? Why is she expected to prioritize his sexual needs and he not do so for her? Adult relationships are exchanges, not at all sacrificial.
> 
> ...


I'm very happy for you that you get more sex than you need. No, that's not settling, because settling means getting LESS than what you deserve. Unfortunately, because you're statement pretty much makes it clear that you're the LD person in your relationship, I don't think you will every fully comprehend where the OP is coming from. I've been there the OP is, and I had similar concerns over my sex life with my then fiance, and a lot of well-intentioned, LD women like yourself gave me the exact same advice that you're giving the OP, and so I made the mistake of marrying that man, and it all turned out to be a horrible disaster.

Sex is never just about sex. And maybe you don't think sex is all that important, but I'm not surprised, since you're the LD partner in your relationship. But for an HD partner--and I get the impression that the OP is an HD partner--sex is helluva crucial thing. Good sex in the glue that holds a romantic relationship together. Sexual incompatibility is cancer in a relationship, and it WILL end a relationship if it's not addressed and both partner's needs aren't met. 

So, he has a choice: 1) he can stay in the relationship, as you advise, even though he's unfulfilled, with a woman who is making absolutely no effort to meet his needs, or even compromise and meet him halfway, in which he will become more and more unsatisfied, and this dissatisfaction will begin to manifest itself in other ways, and the relationship will continue to deteriorate, at which point he will either stay in the relationship and be miserable, or the relationship will end acrimoniously after several years wasted in unhappiness getting to this point; or 2) he can recognize this problem as a red flag warning of the dangerous waters ahead, look ahead and see that this incompatibility will only lead to a bad break-up in the future, and he can recognize that continuing this relationship is a waste of both his and her time, and they would both be better off ending it and moving on to find someone more compatible.

He could stay and work on the problem, but it's clear that he's the only one who thinks there's a problem. He can't fix it if she's not willing to work on it with him. And if she's not willing to work on it, she clearly doesn't place much value on their relationship--or she has THAT much baggage that she might never work through all her issues, and is it really his responsibility to deal with all that sh!t? I don't think so. 

Like you said--he won't be easy to replace. And he'll have a lot of value on the dating market. I don't think it will be as hard for him to find someone as you seem to think it will be. There are a lot of women in their 50s who are widowed, or are finally leaving bad marriages because the kids are grown and off to college. Women recognize a good man, and if he's as good a man as he comes across here, he won't be single for long.

Regardless, one should never stay in a bad relationship out of fear of being alone. Because if you're alone, at least you have the chance/opportunity to be in a good relationship in the future. A bad relationship has virtually no chance of becoming good.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You guessed wrong, In fact, I have a normal drive. What makes you so sure that I am LD? You don't know what I need Vs what my husband needs. Please explain how you came to the conclusion that I am LD given that you need some standard by which to measure a sexual drive besides your imagination? You don't know me and therefore you are incapable of assessing my need for anything. 

Don't make assumptions about me. If you have something to write, let it stand on its own merit.


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Love this! Going to find a way to incorporate this into my daily vernacular...


Hopefully in an appropriate setting :grin2:

I will say it to Mr H but I'm crackers like that, is all in fun. I suggest you don't say it to the Fed Ex delivery guy.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> You guessed wrong, In fact, I have a normal drive. What makes you so sure that I am LD? You don't know what I need Vs what my husband needs. Please explain how you came to the conclusion that I am LD given that you need some standard by which to measure a sexual drive besides your imagination? You don't know me and therefore you are incapable of assessing my need for anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't make assumptions about me. If you have something to write, let it stand on its own merit.



She said you have a LD relative to your husband. And she's right. You're the one who said you have more sex than you need. You compromise, fine. But that says right there that you are LD relative to your husband.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

No she said I was LD and I was like women who misguided her. I am like no one except myself and I have nothing to do with some amorphous group of women who give bad advice. I never advise him to go ahead with the relationship, I said to consider. If he is as smart as he seems, he will make the right decision for himself. Who makes the monumental decision to get married based on the advice of strangers? Cant blame the strangers. Considering an alternate choice does not mean you follow advice but you think about it and do what best for yourself.


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Bugged said:


> typical TAM advice
> 
> DUMP HER!!
> I'm sure, at 59, you have women lining up in front of your door to date you...
> ...


At 59 he may well have women lining up, dating is not exclusive to younger people. 

It is not about dumping her it is about being incompatible, why should anyone waste their life and not be fulfilled? He has the right to happiness too or do you think that is only for some people?


----------



## inhope (Nov 17, 2010)

er15 said:


> i have been used to ( and i loved it all my life ) to be able to touch my woman, see her body, kiss/lick private parts, sleep naked or at least half naked. to feel her body i love so much. even i am macho, i have been told i have soul of woman in intimacy aspect.
> 
> what i get is triple protection ( underwear and pajamas with exception of brief naked when penetrating ). allowed only little touch, no way of going down or holding my hands on her private parts. and command 'stop it' almost always. so we have brief intercourse her way ( missionary, kissing only ), sometimes she comes, sometimes not. i have failed on some occasions ( and she is understanding ) because i need long foreplay without too many restrictions ( like going down ). try to discuss, answer is quarrel and will not happen.


You are too young at 59 to give up on the sex and intimacy you prefer, which by all accounts can not be viewed as _extreme_ in any way, and I guess she is too old at 47 to change her ways.
I cannot see how this can get better. 


> i do like she is professional like me, fairly easy going, rational.
> just this intimacy is difficult. i *have become sarcastic about it at times*, she gets very angry when i do, telling me
> how should she get her point across she does not like what i want. i could say the same - how to get my point to her


BUT sarcasm is definitely not the way to handle things here, sarcasm breeds anger and resentment and resentment breeds sexless marriages.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> No she said I was LD and I was like women who misguided her. I am like no one except myself and I have nothing to do with some amorphous group of women who give bad advice. I never advise him to go ahead with the relationship, I said to consider. If he is as smart as he seems, he will make the right decision for himself. Who makes the monumental decision to get married based on the advice of strangers? Cant blame the strangers. Considering an alternate choice does not mean you follow advice but you think about it and do what best for yourself.


No, I said you were the LD partner in your relationship. Even someone who says they are "normal drive" is low drive in the context of a relationship with someone who has a higher drive.

I didn't make any assumptions about you or what you need. I was going off your post, which said that you get more sex than you need. That statement indicates that your partner is higher drive than you--which makes you low drive in the context of your relationship. 

There's nothing wrong with that. Why do you jump on the defensive immediately, and insist that you are "normal drive"? (A phrase which, BTW, is insulting to anyone who is low drive or high drive, because it implies that they are abnormal. So thanks for that.) And then try to attack me because I made poor choices in the past? Low blow, simply because I disagree with you.

The OP prioritizes sex in his relationship because he is HD, and there's nothing wrong with that, either. It doesn't sound like you prioritize sex the way the OP does. And there's nothing wrong with that, either. But you're giving him advice based on how YOU prioritize sex, not based on how he does, and that's why I think your advice is bad for him. It might be good for someone else, but I think it is bad for the OP.


----------



## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Bugged said:


> typical TAM advice
> 
> DUMP HER!!
> I'm sure, at 59, you have women lining up in front of your door to date you...
> ...


It may come as s shock to you but people in their 50's (and beyond) seek one another's company for many reasons, including intimacy. 
I hope by the time you reach the OP's age you develop more empathy toward others than you show in this post. Or at least a filter.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Bugged said:


> I have *ZERO *empathy (and it shows >) for people that prioritize sex over feelings and people. This is another case where they're not NOT having sex..it's not the kind of sex he wants...he obviously has different standards...but I'm SURE to build the _mythical _ _emotional _connection through sex you need a certain standard otherwise it's impossible ... :nerd:
> 
> 
> Not clear to me why prioritizing money is *not ok* but prioritizing sex is...it's as much as materialistic...
> ...


Bugged, for a lot of people (and I'm pretty sure that this applies to the OP), sex isn't just about sex. Sex is about feelings, too. A lot of people see physical intimacy (sex!) as a way to demonstrate their emotions and care for their partner. For a lot of people sex is a way to build and reinforce emotional intimacy.

Emotional intimacy through sex is NOT mythical. It's very sad that you've never experienced that, Bugged.

The ability to be naked with his partner and touching her body isn't just about sex; it's about the OP feeling closer to her, and allows the OP to communicate his feelings for her in a physical, tangible way. And her denying him this is basically her saying to him, "I don't want your love, at least not in the form that you want to give it." It's a form of rejection, and it's very hurtful.

If you don't want to prioritize sex in your romantic relationships, that's fine and it's your right. But there's nothing wrong or materialistic about someone who wants (or needs!) to prioritize sex in their own romantic relationships, and shame on you for judging. Someone who prioritizes sex does so because they knew and understand their own emotional needs, and is prioritizing their own needs. A person is a much better partner when he/she is getting his/her needs met, and that only happens if that person prioritizes his/her own needs; but if a person's needs are not being met, they will grow resentful of their partner, especially if their partner is knowingly and blatantly ignoring, neglecting, and minimizing the person's needs. 

So: if someone is HD, and they prioritize sex in order to have those needs met, they will be a better partner and more likely to meet their partner's needs in return. 

In the OP's case, his partner is completely dismissing his needs. Likely she has some issues that prevent her from meeting his needs, and it doesn't sound like she is doing anything to try to fix it. If he doesn't make this a priority, he will NEVER have his needs met, and if he stays in this situation, he'll become miserable.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

inhope said:


> You are too young at 59 to give up on the sex and intimacy you prefer, which by all accounts can not be viewed as _extreme_ in any way, and I guess she is too old at 47 to change her ways.
> I cannot see how this can get better.
> 
> 
> BUT sarcasm is definitely not the way to handle things here, sarcasm breeds anger and resentment and resentment breeds sexless marriages.


I think he's already angry and resentful, but is holding it in, and that's why the sarcasm comes out.

I think you're right--at 47, I doubt she is going to change.

He'd be better off finding a sex-positive woman, without the baggage--and without the kids! At 59, WHY would you want to date a woman with kids? You're only a couple years away from retirement--when you're so close to freedom, why saddle yourself with that type of responsibility? I don't necessarily mean that the OP would have to take responsibility for a partner's children, but I mean that the OP might be better off with a woman with LESS responsibility, who will have the same amount of freedom that he has (or will have, soon).

I mean if he loves kids, and whatever, more power to him, but does he really want to jump on the parent wagon again, even if it's just as a step-parent?

Sorry, that was totally off-topic.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Holland said:


> I suggest you don't say it to the Fed Ex delivery guy.


:lol:


----------



## inhope (Nov 17, 2010)

FeministInPink said:


> Bugged, for a lot of people (and I'm pretty sure that this applies to the OP), sex isn't just about sex. Sex is about feelings, too. A lot of people see physical intimacy (sex!) as a way to demonstrate their emotions and care for their partner. For a lot of people sex is a way to build and reinforce emotional intimacy.
> 
> Emotional intimacy through sex is NOT mythical. It's very sad that you've never experienced that, Bugged.
> 
> The ability to be naked with his partner and touching her body isn't just about sex; it's about the OP feeling closer to her, and allows the OP to communicate his feelings for her in a physical, tangible way. And her denying him this is basically her saying to him, "I don't want your love, at least not in the form that you want to give it." It's a form of rejection, and it's very hurtful.


Yes I agree.
If we take the pure sex out of it, many find just hugging, cuddling and spooning skin to skin in bed engenders a fantastic feeling of closeness, and all he is getting here is skin to layers of cloth.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Bugged said:


> needs needs needs..I can't stand this word anymore..if having your needs met is your idea of a relationship..well then the only advice for OP is...find a HD woman...problem is ..since sometimes you fail man...
> 
> >


Wow, you really don't have ANY empathy, do you? Do you realize that needs are an ACTUAL THING?

Maslow?s eight basic needs and the eight stage devlopmental model | The Mouse Trap

Sex is a legitimate need on Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, listed as one of the PRIMARY needs along with food, water, sleeping, and breathing. Sexual/emotional intimacy is listed as a tertiary (love/belonging) need (still pretty damn important), along with love and belonging--just after safety/security (employment, shelter, etc).

Everything we do, all of our actions, are driven by a desire to have our needs met. Humans pursue relationships BECAUSE we have a need for love, and a need to GIVE love to another person, for a sense of belonging and for companionship and friendship, for the security that comes with either two incomes or a larger extended family network, for acceptance, and YES, FOR SEX. And this is COMPLETELY NORMAL. Stop trying to shame the OP (and all of us who are like him) because HE IS NORMAL.

When these needs aren't met, it can cause a lot of psychological damage, especially when an individual is exposed to a deficit over an extended period of time. Unmet needs create anxiety, depression, shame, doubt in oneself, misplaced guilt, and a whole host of other problems. Have you ever read about or heard what happens to children who are left feral--in other words, their parents have neglected ALL of their basic needs? They are literally unable to function as fully-developed human beings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child. Yes, this is an extreme example, but I'm using it as an example to show that needs are a real thing. 

Many of us here on TAM had our needs severely neglected in previous relationships, and we bear the psychological scars from such experiences. Don't tell us that needs aren't real, or that they don't matter, or that we shouldn't expect or have the right to have our needs filled in our relationships.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Bugged said:


> needs needs needs..I can't stand this word anymore..if having your needs met is your idea of a relationship..well then the only advice for OP is...find a HD woman...problem is ..since sometimes you fail man...
> 
> 
> 
> >


Bugged, slow down, you are moving to the mean side. Your need is not to be bothered by sex much. That's fine. But you have to find someone who has similar need. If you find someone with much higher drive then you , you both will be misearable. It goes BOTH ways.

yes, that's why we enter relationship - because we feel happy, because our needs are being met by the other person. If they are not met - what's they point? it means you are not making each other happy. He wants sex, she does not care about sex at all. There is no room for negotiations at all, only building resetnemnt. 

there is no reason to stick around longer. DAting is process of searching for someone compatible. They are not compatible. They are not married, so it is rather easy.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Where are you OP. It would help you if you come back and let us know how you are doing. Take the advice that suits you and someone will suggest ways for you to impliment a plan. You seem hesitant to follow your heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Bugged said:


> I have *ZERO *empathy (and it shows >) for people that prioritize sex over feelings and people. This is another case where they're not NOT having sex..it's not the kind of sex he wants...he obviously has different standards...but I'm SURE to build the _mythical _ _emotional _connection through sex you need a certain standard otherwise it's impossible ... :nerd:
> 
> 
> Not clear to me why prioritizing money is *not ok* but prioritizing sex is...it's as much as materialistic...
> ...


I prioritise both money and sex, cannot live without lots of either.

OK so sex is not important to you, you have told us many times so please explain then why you keep posting on threads from people that do put an importance on sex/physical closeness/passion/intimacy?

Would be like me posting on the latest American football threads, don't understand it, don't care about it.


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Bugged said:


> uhm...so?
> You can do what you want..I said _I_ have zero empathy for someone that trades people for materialistic things..I'm sure if your husband lost his job you would dump him...right?
> 
> *No I wouldn't because even though it would make a short term dent in our lifestyle we are financially established so would still have plenty. He also has income protection which is vital for high income earners so that would carry us through till his next job. I would kick his arse to the curb though if he intentionally made our relationship sexless, BTDT*
> ...


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Bugged said:


> Nope..this idea that a relationship means to meet someone's needs (ALL of them, whatever they are) is ludicrous to me...I do not have need that I cannot satisfy by myself..when I met my partner I was perfectly fine by myself...*I wanted to be with him for the man he was.*.not for what he was doing for me...if we didn't end up together I would have still loved him..so ...
> 
> I think it's time to change my signature,,,


Because as "the man he was " he was meeting your needs, your emotional needs. You felt loved and cherished, and enjoyed time together, right? That's what it means to have your needs met, without going into to many details. You are a GOOD match.

But sometimes you date someone, and at the beginning you both are happy, but after a while it becomes more and more obvious that you have different ideas of what important, what you want from life, what you expect from each other. That there is not much common ground after the hormones stop working. That's when your needs are not met - need of intimacy, need to share, need to love and being loved. You stop looking forward to time together.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Bugged don't go away. Keep being honest. People who feel as you do are not welcomed here as you see. However, they are needed. 

Thanks for adding your valuable voice. Your posts may be valuable to people who are dealing with sex-starved relationships. Reading what you have to say may help someone in a sex-starved relationship insight into what is going on with their partner.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

thank you all for advise, comments. i am slowly digesting what i have red. first, i don't think it is sex i am longing for, rather intimacy. and it could be me who has to adjust. i was used for years ( with my late one ) for great intimacy. we did not have to go down ( all the time ) to be intimate. so many other ways to express feeling and love. become one body and soul, to feel that unity when you embracing each other or just feel body next to you given in complete trust. that's what love was to me. maybe i am in relation too soon, only 2 years since i become alone. 
i don't want to dump anybody, i like LTR and try to work it out. not everything will go my way, i understand, i just want to give relation chance. and i think we have all going for us but some differences in intimacy. she is realizing that i have need and we will both try to adjust. i for sure will give it time. time is best doctor. 
maybe i should mention we both immigrants, good education, 
i am white, she is asian.
and i don't mind parenting, actually i find in her boy ( just become teenager ) grand child i don't have ( my own kids are in 30s but no children ). he needs a lot of male guidance ( mother may not give ).
would love to go to his graduation one day ( i hope from ivy league ).


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

er15 said:


> thank you all for advise, comments. i am slowly digesting what i have red. first, i don't think it is sex i am longing for, rather intimacy. and it could be me who has to adjust. i was used for years ( with my late one ) for great intimacy. we did not have to go down ( all the time ) to be intimate. so many other ways to express feeling and love. become one body and soul, to feel that unity when you embracing each other or just feel body next to you given in complete trust. that's what love was to me. maybe i am in relation too soon, only 2 years since i become alone.
> i don't want to dump anybody, i like LTR and try to work it out. not everything will go my way, i understand, i just want to give relation chance. and i think we have all going for us but some differences in intimacy. she is realizing that i have need and we will both try to adjust. i for sure will give it time. time is best doctor.
> maybe i should mention we both immigrants, good education,
> i am white, she is asian.
> ...


How long were you with your late wife? How long did it take you to reach the level of intimacy you desired with her? Building intimacy does take time.

However, I am concerned that there may be some cultural differences between the two of you that might make this difficult to achieve.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Trying to get more info about your gf and her approach to love and relationships. How do you discuss this problem with her? Does she seem empathetic and does she do things that you like just to make you happy. Culture is important, how much do you know about her culture relative to relationships between husbands and wives?


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

i have been with late one for about 13 years. second for both. she was also asian, so culture i think is not at play here.
and we did not have to build level of intimacy. we were match from very beginning ( i guess luck ). 
with current gf we do discuss but it always ends with her stating she will not do.
i will be ok without sex, but intimacy is different story.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Marriage to one Asian woman does not make you a culturally knowledgable partner. "Asian" is not a homogeneous group of people. My suggestion is to start from the beginning and get to know your gf as an individual along with the influence of her particular culture and family background. 

Aside from the sexual/intimacy problem, I think there is another larger issue. Perhaps you are wanting your gf to be a replica of your deceased wife and you have not taken the time to know who she is as an individual? Putting preconceived notions aside, do you think this woman can ever meet your expectations? She sounds fairly resolute. She is willing to risk the relationship over this but you are not. She holds the cards. 

You said that you are willing to forgo sex as long as you have intimacy. You don't seem to have either one at present.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

catherine602 said:


> marriage to one asian woman does not make you a culturally knowledgable partner. "asian" is not a homogeneous group of people. My suggestion is to start from the beginning and get to know your gf as an individual along with the influence of her particular culture and family background.
> 
> Aside from the sexual/intimacy problem, i think there is another larger issue. Perhaps you are wanting your gf to be a replica of your deceased wife and you have not taken the time to know who she is as an individual? Putting preconceived notions and your wants and needs aside, do you think this woman can ever meet your expectations? She sounds fairly resolute. She is willing to risk the relationship over this but you are not. She holds the cards.
> 
> You said that you are willing to forgo sex as long as you have intimacy. You don't seem to have either one at present.


all of this^^^


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

i stumbled on asexual post here and i think it fits. once i asked about it, she got so mad. adds up.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

How did you approach it? What happened?


----------

