# Husband doesn't know what he wants



## remmebr

I'm a wreck and here is my story...about a year ago, I found that my husband was text messaging a girl that he works with approximately 1400 times per month. He was texting multiple times each day, when we were on vacation together - they were texting, etc...I confronted him and he said they were just friends and it would stop. I called the other girl and she claimed they were just friends. This past October, I noticed that my husband was spending a bunch of time on his ipod touch. He would take it into the bathroom with him, he would go downstairs with it, etc. I discovered that he had downloaded a free texting application and was texting her through that service (the first round of texts were discovered through our phone bill.) When confronting him about the second round of texting, he seemed upset and told me that he has feelings for the girl that he works with and they have only hugged and gone out for drinks. He told me that he doesn't know if he wants the marriage or not and he is scared at the feelings that he is having....that he never thought he would have feelings like this. Over the course of the last few years (we have been together 12 years and married for 7), he would feel as though I wasn't giving him enough attention or was not intimate with him enough. I guess i sort of discounted his feelings and thought he was being too overreactive and I felt that he should just know that I love him. I now know that I should have been more accommodating to his feelings. I think he blames his interest in this other girl on my lack of interest in sex, etc. Now it is 4 months since I uncovered the last round of texting and he has been unemotionally there for me for the past 4 months. He doesn't know what he wants, he is leading his own life by coming home when he feels like it, not texting to tell me where he is, etc. When he is home, I cannot talk to him about my feelings or ask where he is at in the relationship decision. He just gets plain angry when I push him on that. He still comes up to bed and sleeps with me in the same bed, although we are not intimate. At times he can be sweet and other times he doesn't want to talk to me or just picks at me. I love him so much and it is devastating me to think that I might be without him some day. He used to be the most trustworthy, emotionally supporting guy that I have ever met and now he is not available for me and I feel sad and lonely. We went to counseling a couple of times and he quit as I believe the counselor was telling him things that he did not want to hear. Recently I found a birthday card from the other woman that he was texting and it said, love you always, and had hearts drawn, etc....(I am 38 and she is a single mother at age 27). We do not have any children and he never wanted kids. He continues to tell me that they are just friends and he said he feels like i don't trust him and I constantly am checking up on him and he hates it. I feel so sad and don't know what to do...I don't want to move on without him, but I don't want to have my life in a loveless relationship with someone who doesn't know what they want. I recently started hanging out with a guy at work who is married and going through the same thing with his wife. I think that we feel comfortable supporting each other, but I am afraid that I am shifting my reliance on support from my husband to the other man and I know that I need to cut it before something happens. I feel sad, confused, anxious, and started having panic attacks. I am at a loss and do not know how to move out of this place of limbo. Any thoughts? Thanks for listening!


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## SprucHub

No real thoughts. It is important to have someone to talk to, but you need to know your boundries with the OM. Have you tried initiating intimacy, or, at least complimenting him in a sincere way (you look nice today, you smell great . . .). Nagging or bombarding with guilt are not likely positive communications. My wife was/is not intimate enough with me and discounts and disregards my feelings. For a long time, she did not know she was doing it. I can forgive this - we think differently. Now, she is sort of playing down the issue. If we did not have children, I likely would have left because of this. We are mid-30's and have been married for 10 years. She is everything to me, but her attempt to have a bare-minimum sex life and her related cruelty (starting a fight every time we try to discuss it by telling me my goals have changed, or I am not giving her enough time . . .) have worn me down. If another woman was showing me affection, I'd avoid her because of my state, but if there were no kids involved . . .

Hope this is helpful for the other perspective.


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## remmebr

Thanks for the response. I went to counseling and they told me to start complementing him, etc. When I do it, he just discounts it and disagrees with whatever I tell him. I think that he views it as a desparate measure on my part of trying to reel him back in....We have had sex a few times since this has happened, but it is empty. He says he doesn't feel anything and just goes through the motions and then goes back to ignoring me. It hurts. I just really feel as though I wish I would have been more accommodating to his needs earlier on and it wouldn't have gotten to this point. Now, I feel he probably is so involved with the other girl (who he works with) and he can only emotionally support one of us and he has chosen her. He won't leave the house, he still sleeps in the same bed as me, and at times (when I seem more independent) he wants to get lunch or dinner with me. There have also been a few times where I have caught him rubbing my head as I sleep...but then the next day, he wants nothing to do with me. I'm sorry your wife is discounting the issue. From personal experience if you were to move on, she would suddenly realize that a few small actions on her part to make you happy would be well worth the effort.


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## s.k

YOur husband is basically having an affair. You need to put your foot down with this and ask him to choose you or her and then set some boundaries if he chooses you, I think you are beiong to soft and you keeping everything bottled in is just giving him the idea that what he is doing is ok which it is not, also you need to cut ties with the guy at work and focus on your marriage if you want it to last. Your husband is wrong in this by not respecting you and going off to someone else to talk to. If you put up with this you are only hurting yourself good luck


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## remmebr

Thank you for the response. I did tell him to figure this out. He claims that he is just friends with her and nothing has happened. He said that he does not like me telling him who he can be friends with. I told him given the history of him hiding things from me, I have the right to make those decisions for him. He didn't like it and left. He can't face talking about feelings or our relationship. He gets uncomfortable and part of me just feels like he doesn't want to hurt me anymore with his words.

He said that the decision on whether to stay or go is not based upon the OW. He said that he feels like he just wants to be alone and not have anyone telling him what to do and he doesn't want to be responsible for anyone else's feelings. He said he is sick of hurting other people. Part of me wants to believe that is the case and it truly is that he just wants to be alone as he seems like he is going through some sort of mid-life crisis. He hates his job, he is extremely angry at everyone, he is down all of the time, has made a few comments about killing himself (even though that is not what he would do...). I am not pursuing the other guy and know two wrongs do not make it right. It just felt good to feel like someone cared about me. Deep down I know that by hanging onto that feeling would only create a bad situation in the end. I just love my husband so much and want to make it work...I've conveyed that to him, but he keeps saying, "he will always love me, but he is not ready to make that commitment." I'm so lost on what to do....I don't want to be without him.


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## accept

It sounds to me that you are pressurising your husband too much.


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## Gratitude

Your husband has clearly checked out of the marriage and you are trying desperately to save it. His contact with the other woman is completely unacceptable. If you ask him to choose, be prepared for him to go. His contact with her is a definite interference in your marriage.

I know you're trying to save everything, but it won't work if he's not willing. You need to give him space, and let him make his own decision. He is obviously confused. Tell him you love him, what your boundaries are (ie his affair with this woman, whether emotional or physical is completely inappropriate) and let him have the space to decide. Don't accept things in your marriage just to keep him around. Tell him what you are willing to work on, if he is willing to work on the marriage too.

A marriage is never over until both people stop trying. But don't push him, because I think in the end you will just push him away. His comment 'he is not ready to make that commitment'... he already did, when he married you. Try to find some other focus/hobby as well right now to lower your anxiety. The more desperate you appear, the less likely he will be to want to be with you. I haven't been around here long but I know other posters know about the 180 and other things I'm not sure about that you could do, and they could advise you on.


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## remmebr

Gratitude - thank you for your words. I know you are right and my actions are probably pushing him away. I really have always pride myself on being a strong woman, but this situation really has me now understanding who I really am....I just keep going back to the old man he used to be and having hope that he will be that loving man again. I just keep thinking this is a bump in the road and I guess I don't know how long I can go on living like this. I know that he has checked out and the contact with the other woman is not appropriate. I will take your advice and try to give him some more space. He is the type of man who cannot make a decision though on the most simple things....I can tell you that this probably will go on for quite some time where we are in limbo and I guess I will probably get to the point where I have to make the move. I will try to be strong and do the 180...thanks again!


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## sigma1299

First and foremost - tell that OM you're talking to goodbye - right now. You're emotionally vulnerable and so is he - danger danger danger - slam the door on that one - tonight. Take it from someone who had a emotional you want not part of it. 

As far as your H and your marriage. You have a decision to make. Can you accept your husband having feelings for and a relationship with another woman or not? If you can then you just have to hunker down and get on with life. If you can't then you have to decide what you're going to do if he won't cut ties with this OW. 

Assuming you decide that you can't accept three people in your marriage, once you decide what the consequences are if he doesn't change his behavior calmly and clearly explain what those are to him and mean it. Then if he doesn't comply enforce them. I know that's easy to say and much harder to do, but it's really not any more complicated than that. There is tons of great advice and support on here.


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## Hopefull363

Your husband is having an affair is is called an emotional affair (if it hasn't gone physical yet). He is acting like he's single, texting and talking to other women. He is choosing these friendships over your emotional well being and the health of the marriage. He's checked out as stated above. If I were you I would give him the choice our marriage or your girl friends. If he chooses the girlfriends then start the 180 immediately and file for a divorce. The divorce takes a while so if he checks back in it can be withdrawn. If he chooses the marriage then he has to have no contact with other women that are not family and has to go to counseling. He has to really try this time. If he won't make the decision, then make it for him. Have him served with papers. Go to an attorney for a free consult and see what they say. I'm sorry for you. I can just imagine the heartbreak you must be feeling.


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## remmebr

It is a rough day for me. Things have not changed around here. He still has days where he is cordial and other days where he doesn't even talk to me. I found out when the OW's birthday was (Feb 6th) and this is a day that my husband took off of work and told me that I should have the dog walker come as he was going to be gone that day. I've held knowing this inside until the other night when we got into an argument. I went to Mexico for a few days with my girlfriend (to clear my head) and came back on Thursday. He seemed surprised that I was home as he thought I was coming home on Friday. He mentioned that he believes I came home a day early (which I did not) in order to "bust him" doing something. So, I started in telling him that I knew he took her birthday off, I found some greeting cards from her in his briefcase, etc....He turned it on me stating....you were digging in my briefcase???? Ugh! Anyways, today is our wedding anniversary and he told me last night that I shouldn't plan anything as he is going to be gone today. It's now 10AM and he went and got himself breakfast and didn't get me anything and now he left the house for the day. I'm sitting here feeling so sad and alone. In a way I feel sort of trapped as I cannot afford to move out and continue to pay 1/2 of the mortgage here. When I asked him to move out, he said, "this is my house too and I'm not going anywhere." Besides our house is under water and we would have to come up with a bunch of cash in order to get out of this house....and I'm not willing to risk my credit as I have always prided myself on having excellent credit. Sorry for rambling, just having a bad day!


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## Prodigal

remmebr said:


> today is our wedding anniversary and he told me last night that I shouldn't plan anything as he is going to be gone today. It's now 10AM and he went and got himself breakfast and didn't get me anything and now he left the house for the day. I'm sitting here feeling so sad and alone.


Your husband is throwing this affair right in your face. He can't be more blatant. Your wedding anniversary? It means NOTHING to him. Why should it? He's off cavorting with his new lady. Meanwhile, you are sitting home, being a victim, and pining away for the man you once knew. Here's the reality of the situation: that man ain't comin' back. At least not as long as he has you for a doormat. 



remmebr said:


> In a way I feel sort of trapped as I cannot afford to move out and continue to pay 1/2 of the mortgage here. When I asked him to move out, he said, "this is my house too and I'm not going anywhere." Besides our house is under water and we would have to come up with a bunch of cash in order to get out of this house....and I'm not willing to risk my credit as I have always prided myself on having excellent credit.


Okay, you can't move because you cannot afford it. Your H insists it's his house too and he's not budging. So how about this: don't pay 1/2 the mortgage next month. It's HIS house, let HIM come up with the $$ to cover the mortgage. I understand you not wanting to risk your credit, but what are you investing more pride in; your credit rating or your self-esteem? Let him figure out how to come up with the mortgage payment; after all, he must have money to toss around on his new squeeze. Find an apartment and get a roommate, move in with some friends for the short-term, move in with family (if you have some in the area).

If you really want to stay in the house, pull a 180 on him. Start going out with gf's. Dump the guy with whom you currently share your sad stories. You don't need a rebound relationship when you're already dealing with a bad marriage. You may have to force yourself at first, but get out there and start living. I think you will find out how much your husband values you, if at all. I mean, c'mon ... he doesn't even want to be with you on your anniversary, and apparently he didn't miss you when you went to Mexico. In fact, it sounds like he was kinda ticked off that you came home "early."

Time to put on the big girl panties and make a life for yourself, because it sounds like hubs has checked out 100% for the time being.


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## remmebr

Thanks Prodigal. I can't quite figure out what my deal is with this whole situation. Normally I am such a strong person and was always telling others that the minute someone does me wrong, I would not put up with it. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I just wish I had proof of a physical relationship between my husband and this other girl. I would feel more comfortable moving forward. I feel like I have done a great job with the 180, but it is not causing him to move closer to me. I mind my own business, I don't cook food anymore, I don't do his laundry, I go on trips with my girlfriends, and I don't check in with him. The only setback is when I get upset at the comments that he makes to me and I start getting vocal about the things "I think or have uncovered" that he is doing. We got into a huge argument the other day and my husband is not one to let things go....so, I believe that he is still angry about our fight and he is "showing me" by not coming home today...on our anniversary. BTW...it is 8PM and he is still not home. I just don't know why I feel the way I do and why I am allowing him to get away with acting like this.....as you put it....being a doormat....which I agree I am....He has such a way of turning things on me to make me feel like I am the one who caused him to do this by not being affectionate enough or by not giving him enough attention. He now blames me for everything....he claims that I am the one who got us into a financial mess, I am the one who was not affectionate and caused his feelings to change, I am the one.......I think it is bs as I am the one who always made sure his house was clean, paid the bills, made sure he had clean laundry, made sure groceries were in the house, made sure he had something to eat, and did all of this while holding down a successful career bringing in as much money as he does, and going to grad school....I'm just so frustrated with myself and my feelings...I just wish I could get away from looking at him and feeling as though I can't live without him....


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## pinkbird

This sounds like me. I wanted to ask you a few questions, but please know I am just curious and in no way blaming you, because of course these are typical feelings/responses/rationalizations.

Did he initiate the counseling? I'm curious as to why the counselor told you "to start complementing him"?

Did you originally want children? Did your opinions on children change throughout the marriage? It seems odd that he would be with someone that has a child if he doesn't want them. I was unsure if I wanted children, and my H did not. I felt like I was ok with that decision. Now I almost 36, and unsure again. But since I have always been on the fence I feel like it might just be that my time is running out , so I feel like the chance has passed me by (because I wont be in another relationship that I trust for a long time).

How are things going with you now? Have you confirmed the OW? Have you moved out?

I hope you were able to come to some decisions and have found a little bit of peace.


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## Jellybeans

This poster hasn't been back since March.


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## rider

Hey Remmebr, my wife and I went through the same thing. I was attached and still talking to (but not being physical with) this girl.

It is just as damaging, and just as emotionally battering as an affair. Men don't always fully understand this.

Until he stops, you wont be able to fix anything. He is sharing his hopes and dreams with this girl, and whatever she has in mind for the future certainly does not have your interests in mind.

Sure, maybe you could start complementing him like the therapist says, but you cant complement a man you do not trust.

You have to be able to say: "Honey, I ****ed some things up, and you had every right to be upset about that, but talking constantly to another woman is not ok. I want this marriage to work, and if you can cut ties from this woman (maybe even move jobs). I will promise to give you my all."

It's going to take months for you to heal, but it's the only hope you have.

He is going to say that what he is doing is fine since it is not physical. You can tell him to call his mother/sister and ask their opinion if he is so sure.

If he would be ashamed to tell the world about it, it isn't right...


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## pinkbird

Jellybeans said:


> This poster hasn't been back since March.


Oops, sorry. Although, that does make me even more curious as to how things are going!


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## remmebr

Hello - 

I haven't posted on here for a while, but I have been checking in now and then to see how everyone is doing. Things have not changed. I am still living in the house and he comes and goes when he wants. He has been home more on the weekends, but still comes home from work late most nights. When I ask him where he was...he says it is none of my business...but says it in a joking way...but still won't tell me. He never wanted kids and frankly he acts like a child himself at age 38. He has a very stressful, successful career, but when he comes home, he wants to ride his motorcycle, he wants to play pinball (we have 5 of them in our house), he still likes to skateboard, plays drums in a band, etc.....Typically, he is emotionally unavailable for me and still doesn't know what he wants. He states that there is nothing going on with the OW and he just thinks he wants to be alone. I have been trying to get my own life, between working a stressful job, going to school, and spending time with my friends, I haven't been around a ton. I thought maybe that would make him miss me, but it really doesn't. He jokes around sometimes and calls me his "roomie." The other day I drove him to an appt and we passed the headquarters of the builder that we used to build our house....He commented as we passed the site that....."that is where it all started....now I am trapped." Then he started laughing like he is joking. He has his own bank account and does allow me to see it...as he said that he wants to be responsible for his own money as he feels I have not been responsible when I was in charge of our money....which is far from the truth. I just wanted him to have everything that he wanted and I always tried to find a way to allow him to have it, even if I had to borrow money from our creditline. Okay...so maybe that was dumb, but I wanted the best for him. One thing is I recently lost a pet that I have had for a long time and when that happened, he rushed home from work and hugged me, held me, and came up to bed when I did and rubbed my head and back...he was saying, I am so sorry. It felt so comforting to have him back to his "old self." Then, a few days later, he was back to his selfish ways, not coming home until 8pm at night...going out on Fridays after work and not coming home until 10pm or so. Anyways, I guess it is my fault for dealing with this. So, I just haven't posted as I am somewhat embarrassed by my lack of moving forward on my situation. I guess I am able to tolerate it right now, although I do get lonely. Anyways, thanks for asking where I am at in the relationship....sorry to say it really hasn't changed at all.....


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## EleGirl

It is very common for a BS to end up cheating. I think you can see why. YOu do not want to complicate your life like this. 

Cut back on your friendship with this guy.


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## EleGirl

remmebr said:


> Thank you for the response. I did tell him to figure this out. He claims that he is just friends with her and nothing has happened. He said that he does not like me telling him who he can be friends with. I told him given the history of him hiding things from me, I have the right to make those decisions for him. He didn't like it and left. He can't face talking about feelings or our relationship. He gets uncomfortable and part of me just feels like he doesn't want to hurt me anymore with his words.
> 
> He said that the decision on whether to stay or go is not based upon the OW. He said that he feels like he just wants to be alone and not have anyone telling him what to do and he doesn't want to be responsible for anyone else's feelings. He said he is sick of hurting other people. Part of me wants to believe that is the case and it truly is that he just wants to be alone as he seems like he is going through some sort of mid-life crisis. He hates his job, he is extremely angry at everyone, he is down all of the time, has made a few comments about killing himself (even though that is not what he would do...). I am not pursuing the other guy and know two wrongs do not make it right. It just felt good to feel like someone cared about me. Deep down I know that by hanging onto that feeling would only create a bad situation in the end. I just love my husband so much and want to make it work...I've conveyed that to him, but he keeps saying, "he will always love me, but he is not ready to make that commitment." I'm so lost on what to do....I don't want to be without him.


The issue is not someone else telling your husband who he can have as a friend. The issue is that he cannot work on your marriage as long as he is in this EA/PA with this other woman.

AT this point it has been going on for a very long time. He comes and goes as he pleases. There is a very high probability that he's in a physical affair with her. 

Does he communicate with her using a home computer?

Do you ever check his cell phone and read messages from her?


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## pinkbird

I feel like you are blaming yourself too much, and for things that are not in your control. It makes me sad. Nor do you have anything to be embarrassed about.

Did this childlike behavior start in his "mid life crisis" or has he always been this way? Just curious, not that its a bad thing. Hell, I wish I could act like I was 20 again 

It is not acceptable to treat someone like he is treating you. I do know how hard it is to move on though and accept things. He has to be with this woman when he isnt coming home, right? Do you know her? Have you ever tried to follow him? You seem like you need some hard evidence, although his actions are telling you all you need to know.

You said that you were the one who would have to ultimately make the decision. This was me. After I made the choice to leave, my H told me that he would've never been strong enough to do it. It took me way to long to decide though.


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## Hopefull363

Make an exit plan. Squirrel away some money every week. You're not doing anything about it anyway. Use this time to plan and play squirrel.


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## brokenbythis

My husband is acting like this. He has a female friend of about 20 yrs who I recently found out he was in love with for many years, and I believe he still is. For the past 6 or so years he has been calling, seeing and texting her behind my back (ie: in secret) and talking about our marriage and me to her. She is married with a child too. She has her own serious personal problems and they both run to each other all the time to rescue each other.

About 2 mths ago I set my boundary. I told him stop all contact with her or I'm not willing to continue in this marriage. Our marriage has been in trouble for a LONG time, and I believe this woman has a lot to do with it. He has not connected with me for years. Has his own secret life, etc. We cannot work on our relationship with her in the picture. So he agreed to cut contact, then I found about a week ago he is back in contact with her. I confronted him and now he wants a divorce. 

He chose her over me.... He has been looking at apartments and now tells me he can't afford to move/support 2 households on his income. Like that is my problem. 

He is a very complex, secretive man. He says he still loves me and cares about me but his actions speak louder than his words. I know there is no hope while he has feelings for her. I am full of anger that he married me only because she wouldn't have him. I feel cheated out of my life. And we bought an innocent little baby into this mess....

You need to be strong and move out. This is no way to live. You deserve to be loved and respected and cherished by a man who is loyal to you. Not this crap he's dishing out.


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## pinkbird

Perfectly said, brokenbythis. I have never good at writing things out and this is what I was thinking/trying to say.

I agree with you on the feeling cheated part. Lately I am been big into the "what ifs". Not the what if's of my marriage, but the what if's I had taken another path. I feel like I need a time machine to go back and start over again. To see the warning signs from the beginning (back to when we first even started dating) and to be stronger than I was. Something I need to work on because my life isn't over. I just feel like a broken failure and can not fathom anyone wanting to be with me. Silly, I know.


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## Lyris

Did/do you want children? If you do, please leave this man. You still have time to meet someone else and have children if you want them.

At any rate, start planning to separate, at least for a while. He's clearly checked out of your marriage and is either trying to goad you into leaving or too lazy and selfish to do anything to disrupt his comfort. 

Tell him calmly and firmly that either he agrees to counseling and to no contact with his 'friend' or he finds somewhere else to stay. It might shock him out of his fog, but whatever happens you'll be moving forwards instead of treading water.

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## remmebr

I really appreciate everyones comments. I go back and forth about having children. In all honesty, I think I would be okay if I did not have a child. The child like behavior has always been around, I was okay with that when we were in our 20's as I thought he would eventually grow out of it. He used to be so emotionally supportive, my best friend, we were inseparable, and I felt as though no matter what happened I would always have him to count on....so, when that was the case, I had no issue with his child-like behavior when he was younger. I think, however, that it has become worse over time. He finds happiness by buying things in his life....like big ticket items. Then the happiness fades and he moves onto buying something else. I have thought about having him followed, and maybe that is a good next step, but at this point, he is treating me so crappy (at times) that would that even matter? Earlier on when I was posting, I was thinking that is what I needed, but since then the rude comments, the lack of respect for my emotions, have really been hard on me. I know I want someone in my life who wants to be an equal contributor to the relationship....To answer some of the other questions, I haven't checked his cell phone records. We used to have our cell phone together on one plan, and I finally got so tired of being obsessed with checking the records each day and being suspicious that I went out and got my own plan. He still carries his phone everywhere with him and does not leave it laying around. 

Pinkbird - I can totally relate. I am going to have to be the one to leave as he is comfortable and doesn't really need to do anything about this as he has the best of both worlds. What caused you to really make the move and leave...how long did it take? How did you feel after you left, did you feel a sense of relief or were you questioning if you should have done more? That is what I am so scared about...is leaving, moving into my own place, and being completely messed up as I might be feeling I made the wrong decision or didn't give it my all....and would wish he was back in my life. I think that is what keeps me here is the unknown.....Probably pathetic, but it's the truth. At any rate, the comments everyone is providing helps me to put things into perspective and I can't thank everyone enough.


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## LonelyNLost

Bless your heart, I know exactly how you feel. Please take everything he's said and continues to say with a grain of salt. He's in an affair fog. It's so hard for you to see what's really going on because you're blinded by your love for him and your desire to work things out. He is having an affair, and he's disrespecting you every turn of the way. You are holding on because you have hope. It's only natural. You want to save the marriage, he wants to trash it. And the sad thing is, he sees that you want to save it, so he continues to have his cake and eat it too because he knows you'll be there waiting. The best thing to do is act nonchalant like you don't care. Don't give him any of you though, no joking, talking, etc. Be pleasant and cordial, but businesslike. Be mysterious, don't let him know where you are, give him a taste of his own medicine. Let him miss YOU. Be prepared for him to accuse you of cheating or finding someone else. It's all par for the course. 

If you have a moment or a day, lol (since it's 89 pages long), to spare, to read my thread, you'd probably see a lot of parallels and see a lot of your own thoughts in my posts. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-.../23111-now-what-i-love-you-i-always-will.html People gave me a hard time for not giving up and for still continuing to try to talk to him about what he was saying and doing, but it was my struggle and I can now say I'm glad I lived it. I learned a lot about myself and how to respect myself and decide what it is I'll live with and what I won't. We ended up divorcing, but it's for the best, as I deserve better and am now getting better. I hope you get resolution soon, as limbo is the worst, and he's taking advantage of you in so many ways. Hugs!


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## pinkbird

remmebr said:


> Pinkbird - I can totally relate. I am going to have to be the one to leave as he is comfortable and doesn't really need to do anything about this as he has the best of both worlds. What caused you to really make the move and leave...how long did it take? How did you feel after you left, did you feel a sense of relief or were you questioning if you should have done more? That is what I am so scared about...is leaving, moving into my own place, and being completely messed up as I might be feeling I made the wrong decision or didn't give it my all....and would wish he was back in my life. I think that is what keeps me here is the unknown.....Probably pathetic, but it's the truth. At any rate, the comments everyone is providing helps me to put things into perspective and I can't thank everyone enough.


First, the biggest thing that I learned was not to make decisions based on fear. I wish I would have learned that when I was 10! 

We didn't own a house, so I did not have that as a challenge. There is a way to figure that out though. When your serious about it you can come up with a plan.

This is fairly new for me, but I felt a sense of empowerment and still do. That is not to say that I am not sad or lonely, but I do know I did what was best for me because I was sad and lonely with him. Not only that but he made me feel like I was nothing and worthless. The harder I tried to get him to love me again the more he pushed me away and the more I felt like a failure. What was so wrong with me that he could stop loving me? Actually nothing. What did this other girl have that I didn't? I still struggle with that too. But in my heart I know it.

Have you asked him to go to counseling again and to stop contact with her. That alone I believe would be giving it your all.

I still have never questioned myself that I did the wrong thing. And what has happened since I left only proves to me that I made the right decision.

It hurts, yes. I've never had someone not want me anymore in this way and that is the hardest thing to realize. Someone who truly loves you will never hurt you like that and then sit and watch what he has done and still continue to do it.

I don't really agree with the make him miss you "game". Games never work. I think those are good things to do for yourself, but not to try and get him back. I think its dangerous. If you are purely doing those things (and I am not saying you are) to get him back and that doesn't work, it can be a slippery slope to continue to do those things to better yourself without an agenda if your previous agenda failed. Does that make sense?


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## pinkbird

P.S. I'm actually so happy that I was the one to leave the house. I know you said you were both wanting to be the one to stay.

I think would be hard to stay in the place that we shared. I think getting a new place myself was a very good idea. Leave the past behind, start new.


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## remmebr

Thanks Pink Bird - I'm at the point now where I don't think I would need to stay at the house. It would be full of memories which would be difficult. The challenge I have is that he swears up and down that he doesn't hang out with this girl anymore and I don't catch him as much on his cell phone at home texting. He acts as though I am the crazy one for thinking he did something wrong as he claims he never had a physical relationship and she is now just one of the "buddies" that the group at work hangs out with. When he leaves the house, sometimes he tells me where he is going and it is usually to his guy friends home....but when I ask....he tells me it is none of my business. Another thing that is so annoying is that he opened his own bank account and he is hoarding money by selling some of the things we bought. So, when he has $8K in the account and I'm living paycheck to paycheck with $100 in my account, he has no regard for me needing money. When I ask him to borrow money, he asks when I can pay it back.....We used to have our money combined and it didn't matter who spent what...but now all of a sudden, I am a bad money manager and it's not his fault that I don't have as much money as he does....frustrating!!


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## pinkbird

What about counseling? Will he agree to that? So she is a work "friend". Then he needs to find other friends. Why can't he do that for you?

I can't tell if you are just making excuses for him or if there is a possibility that you can work things out.

I don't know, him hoarding away his own money seems like his exit plan to me. And if you bought those things together that he is selling, how is that his money alone?

Ok, I'm leaning towards you making excuses, but obviously I am not in your relationship and can not tell you what to do or what is best for you. :/


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## iheartlife

I apologize in advance if I'm not up to speed on everything you've posted.

Your husband says he's not in contact with the OW. What evidence do you have of that?


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## remmebr

Wow - that is a little brutal pinkbird...I don't think I am making excuses for him as I recognize the behavior and I am not excusing the behavior...just confused by how someone can change their personality so drastically. I think that he has had an issue of feeling a sense of independence in the past and now he wants to live out his independence by taking control of matters he feels he can control....like his own money, doing things when he wants to do them rather than having someone question where he is going, what he is doing, etc...It does not excuse the behavior and I get that. He refuses to do marriage counseling although we went to a few sessions earlier on...he then decided to quit. I have no evidence that he cut it off with her. I only have his word, which is worth nothing at this point. I think he is severely depressed and is making poor decisions and the "I don't know" aspect of him is getting old. I can't get a straight answer out of him and somedays wish he would just say he wants out.....part of me feels like he doesn't want to be the "bad guy" who left the marriage and wants me to do that so he doesn't look bad in the eyes of his family....


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## pinkbird

Oh no! You definitely misread the tone of what I wrote! However you interpreted that was definitely not how I intended it. Maybe excuses was the wrong word? I am re-reading it and not sure what sounded so brutal. Sorry for whatever I said that upset you.


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## remmebr

Thanks for the email - sorry I misinterpreted the email. I felt as though you were thinking I wasn't strong enough to leave, thereby making excuses for his behavior. Of course, that is always the challenge with email communications as you interpret things differently. Thanks for clearing that up and mostly thank you for your story/support. It's amazing how many people can relate to the situation that I am going through....it is really quite sad that things have to be this way.


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## pinkbird

I was just having a conversation with a friend last week because another friend and I had gotten into a silly tiff through email that was totally blown out of proportion. My other friend says "you never talk about emotional stuff on email, it always goes wrong".  

Although that is sort of what I meant, lol. Not that you werent strong enough, but maybe scared of the outcome, which is completely understandable.

I think where I falter with your situation is that I really can't tell if you are just venting. I know that you are hurt for sure. But you do stand up for him (which is normal of a loving wife) but it confuses me as to whether this is just a bump in the road for your marriage or if it is more. Thats why I said I can't tell you what is best for you. Obviously there is so much more to a marriage than a few posts on an anonymous message board.

I don't think for me that my husband was afraid of being the bad guy. He was comfortable in hurting me... Not such a good deal for me!

It's been extremely hard for me to realize that people can stop loving each other. I struggle with that immensely. I still have my best friends from kindergarten for heavens sake! But maybe its more that love changes, not ends.

Are you leaning more towards trying to make things work? I would really ask him again to visit a counselor.

(Hopefully all of that came across ok. not only is it typed, but I am horrible at writing, always have been ).


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## remmebr

If it were up to me, I would want to make it work as long as he was willing. The challenge is that he is not willing right now and doesn't know that he will ever be willing...He keeps saying that right now, he doesn't want to try, but doesn't know if he will be up for trying in 4 months. He said that if I leave he might kick himself for not wanting to work at the marriage 4 months from now. I keep thinking something will knock some sense into him and he will come to me stating that he wants to work things out and that he was sorry for the last few months. I think I could learn to trust him again if he was open about what he was doing, included me in his outside activities, and showed me how much I mean to him. I struggle with worrying that if I leave now, what if....what if he would have snapped back into the true man I married, what if I didn't give it enough time, etc....I'm struggling with the "what-if" scenario and the potential of feeling that I didn't do enough or should have given more. That is the sick part about the whole situation that I need to work on....I am in individual counseling and that helps, but the counselor is telling me not to rush things and I will know when enough is enough and will be ready to move on. So far, I am not there yet.....however, I do need to vent during this time and I do like to get other peoples perspectives on the situation as it makes me feel stronger about what I am dealing with.....Anyways, maybe that clarifies where I stand about a few topics. I don't want to make excuses for his behavior as there are no excuses and his behavior is not appropriate for someone who is technically married.


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## pinkbird

I completely understand that. I think that is where I was saying "you cant make choices based on fear", but at the same time I understand wanting to save your marriage. The biggest factor is that he needs to want to also.

You keep saying that you should have done more. Even in the beginning of your story. Is that true at all? Or is that just an excuse (ahhh, sorry for the word!).

I stopped struggling with "what ifs" with us and have started struggling with "what ifs" in general. What if I hadn't followed him to California? What if I would have given the smitten boy that I loved in HS and disregarded a chance? What if I would have done what I wanted, not what was expected?

I grew up in Minnesota, and am now back here. I spent 15 years in California. Priorities are very different. Everyone I know is married and I am a complete outcast in MN for not being married with children. That was one of my fears. I am still not sure if I am accepted here again.

Like I said before, I want a time machine. I want to somehow end up in one of those movies where you get to go back and do it all again.

One thing I have learned is that you can't judge yourself by what you perceive others have. 

I am glad you are individual counselling. You will know when you are ready... or if you are ever not ready.


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## freemaa

Recently, I received an email from a very distraught wife who was at a cross roads in her marriage. During an argument, her husband let slip that he just didn’t know if he wanted to be married anymore. When pressed, he told her that he “thought” he stilled loved her, but he also thought that he no longer wanted to be married to her anymore.


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## remmebr

Thanks guys! Hey pinkbird, I work in Minneapolis...where are you in Minnesota. That is crazy. I know what you mean about being an outcast as all of your friends have children. I'm in the same boat....no children, but all of my friends (some married and some divorced) have children. Anyways, I guess I've said enough for one day. I hope everyone has a good night and we can chat more later.


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## pinkbird

Sorry I just saw this. I rarely check the email that is associated with this account. I'm in St. Cloud. I love Minneapolis and am looking for positions there so I can move! Jealous!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## remmebr

Well...I am back after a few months off of the site. I am still in the house, but we are definitely living two separate lives. Things are sort of crazy at the moment. The last time I posted, there was another woman that he worked with, but I had no proof outside of texts and some birthday cards that he received from her. I actually got into his email about a month ago and found some flirty emails from another girl who happens to be his bosses sister. She lives about 4 hours from here and occasionally comes down to stay with her brother. My husband spent a few nights at his bosses house as he said he was too drunk to come home. Well, I have been keeping a journal of everything I am going through and I compared the dates in which this other girl was staying at her brothers house and the dates that my husband didn't come home and wouldn't you know....the two dates that she was in town staying at her brothers (knew this due to the emails in his yahoo account) were the dates where my husband didn't come home and said he was staying at his bosses house...yet he failed to mention anything about this girl. Well, I sent her an email and asked her what was going on with my husband due to the flirty emails and the fact that he did not come home the two nights that she was in town. She actually responded stating that they are just friends and nothing is going on. Well, I looked up what she was all about online and found out she is a hairstylist. So, once I found that out, it triggered in my mind that when I tried to get into my husbands bank account (he has his own account and won't share the password)....the secret question to get into the account was, "who is your first hairstylist." So, I put in her name and sure enough I was able to get into my husbands bank account. So not only did he not come home on two nights when this girl was staying at her brothers house (who is also my husbands boss), but also my husband has her name as the secret question to his bank account. So, now there appears to be another girl in the picture. However, when I ask my husband, he says they are just friends and I am crazy. He said I am crazy and he is sick and tired of me "stalking" him. He tells me to mind my own business as he is not doing anything. I have no physical proof and in a sick sort of way, I feel like I need physical proof to move on. He has always been a stand-up guy who believed in honesty. He is a different man now....So, I told him that I was going to file for divorce once I have enough money to get my own place and also have the retainer money for a lawyer. He seems to be okay with this and said that he believes that we are not good marriage material, but said if I want to be his "roomie" I am welcome to live with him. Seriously....how can a man who has been with me for 12 years be okay with just being roommates? I also live in a state where it is community property. I was talking to my husband about getting a lawyer for himself and he thinks a divorce should be pretty straight forward...you know just splitting up the stuff in the house. I told him it was more than that...splitting up debts, 401K's etc....He then became angry and said if I go after his 401K, he is going to fight me "tooth and nail." Part of me feels like I deserve part of his financial stuff....but then again I am afraid to make him too angry as maybe some day he would want me back and by taking half of the financial stuff, it would make him mad so that he would never want to be with me again.....How sick of a thought is that? I am having trouble dealing with all of this and what I have facing me in the near future....yet, I still feel like I don't want to give up after what has been said and done....I'm normally a smart girl with a strong head on my shoulders, yet, I feel so weak in this situation and I'm terrified of walking away....What is wrong with me?


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## PBear

Keep in mind that you are entitled to half the communal property. Talk to a lawyer, but you might get the go-ahead to transfer half the money from "his" accounts into one you control. 

Things will not likely be amicable after that, though...

C


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## Hopefull363

Take care of yourself first. As PB said consult with a lawyer. Usually the first consultation visit is free. Your husband checked out of the marriage not you. He disrespects you and broke your trust. If he ever does want to come back would you trust him? Move on and find somebody that is worthy of your trust. You deserve every penny you can get from him.

Are you working?


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## curlysue321

I am sorry you are going through this.


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## pinkbird

You just popped into my head and I thought I would come here and see how things were going for you.

Sorry to hear the recent news. Keep your chin up! Sounds like you would be much happier on your own, even though its scary. Don't worry about the what ifs. Life has a way of working itself out. You'll kick yourself later if you don't stand up for yourself.

Don't let yourself be treated like that. Nobody deserves that.

Hope youre doing well.


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## remmebr

Hi Pinkbird - 

Thanks for thinking of me! I'm still in the house. We still are leading two separate lives, although he has been nicer lately. Not nice in the aspect that he wants us to be together, but more in the realm of nice roommates. It is so hard for me. I don't know why I care so much about this whole thing. When he is around me, I a so angry....but when he is not here, I miss him. It is so sick! I'm in counseling which is helpful. Anyways, my plan is to get my bonus in February this year and then I am moving out. I hope I can stay strong to actually follow through with this! How are you doing?


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## pinkbird

I haven't been on here and you just popped into my mind so I thought I would check in  It's a mind game within yourself. It's hard. I'm sorry.

What would you tell your best friend in this situation? What you once had doesn't negate what is happening now, unfortunately. I'm sorry you are stuck but I think it is really good that you are going to therapy!

I think you will love having your own place! There are many positive things to come.


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