# Ladies, do you care about your man's fitness/body?



## Faithful Wife

@jld has a couple of threads about men's attraction to women's bodies, based on weight/fitness. I am wondering about the women's feelings about their men's bodies.

For myself...yes, it matters. Though what I find attractive and call "hot" may not be what others view as attractive and "hot", so it is still a relative thing.

I have a cousin who is a total hard body and fitness enthusiast. She has washboard abs. She wants a guy who is at least as fit as she is. She was dating a guy for awhile who was in pretty good shape when they met but then started quickly gaining weight (apparently he had just lost a lot before they met and was then gaining it back). It all went to his gut. He retained his big biceps, thighs, and other things she liked about his body...but now he also had this gut. He had not had visible abs in the beginning but he didn't have a gut, either, so she was ok with it. He had said he was still losing and she was hopeful that his mid section would continue losing as well. The opposite happened instead. They broke up. Though it was for other reasons too, she knows she would have never been ok with him long term if he she to keep looking at that gut.

On the thread in the mens sections, @bandit.45 said "Depends on where on the anatomy the weight gain occurs. If it is distributed to the right areas I have little complaint. 

*Beer guts? No*."

I had to chuckle because, do guys actually think that women ARE ok with beer guts on men? But yet we shouldn't expect a man to be attracted to us if we have a similar gut? Why would that be? :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

My cousin said at one point she said something similar to her then boyfriend. He was telling her he loved her body and she was saying she wished he could get his body into better shape for her, too (after he had been gaining his gut back). He got his feelings all hurt about this. She said "well you love my body because it is so fit, why wouldn't I feel the same way? If I had a gut like you do, do you still think you would be as attracted to me?" She said she saw his face visibly cringe when he imagined her having a gut like he does. Yet....he got his feelings hurt when she wasn't attracted to HIS gut? :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

Now...I know many women don't mind a gut on a man or a bit of softness. Many men don't mind this either. But generally speaking, it would seem that men hold women to a higher physical standard than they hold themselves, and yet don't see this as a double standard. Maybe these guys don't actually expect a woman to need to feel physical attraction anyway, or that we somehow "can't see" a huge gut? Even though, the same men most certainly would see a huge gut and find it unattractive.

Attraction matters a lot to me, and my man's physique is a huge part of this. Again I'm not my cousin. I have a healthy amount of body fat and I find a healthy amount of fat to be ok on a partner. But a "healthy amount" is very little, IMO. And a huge increase in fat weight would definitely make me loose attraction. A huge increase in muscle weight would most likely make me more attracted....though there is a line of "too much". Though my current boyfriend would never be a muscle head like that so no worries there.


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## Hope1964

I find that mine depends to a large extent on my own fitness/attractiveness level. If my own beer gut prevents me from shaving down there I really can't be bothered by HIS beer gut can I? But if I manage to get rid of the beer gut while his just keeps growing, well then, my feelings of attraction to him are diminished.


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## bandit.45

I never said a woman should accept a beer gut on a man if she finds it unattractive. I'm not pledging a double standard.


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## Lila

I'll add more to my post when I'm back at my laptop but the simple answer is yes, I do very much care what my husband's physique looks like. 


I know it's hypocritical of me but when it comes to physical attraction, I've always loved fit and muscular men (no roids /hormones). Bulky or lean.... makes no difference to me....but they must have hard(er) bodies. It's the only kind of guy I've ever dated. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

bandit.45 said:


> I never said a woman should accept a beer gut on a man if she finds it unattractive. I'm not pledging a double standard.


Fair enough. Though you did have a thread here recently asking if women are into bigger men these days. A lot of women are into bigger men. But "bigger men" is one thing and can mean taller, buffer, more muscle, more overall size. If you had titled the post "are women into big beer guts these days?" I'm pretty sure you would have gotten a solid stream of "no, not so much" answers.

So when you put it out there on the thread in the mens section "beer guts, no"....I just had to chuckle. Like, does it actually need to be said out loud that most people are not attracted to beer guts on men OR women? I still believe a lot of men who have a gut like that think that women don't care, while they definitely WOULD care if the same was on their woman.

A guy who is an acquaintance of mine was back from vacation in a remote area in Oregon once, and was commenting on how all the women in the small town there were the size of buffaloes, and thus incredibly unattractive. He's married, so I don't really understand the point of talking about a lack of attraction to other women anyway? But his wife was standing right there so I guess she is just used to him needing to discuss the size and weight of other women, for whatever reason, as if he is a beauty pageant judge or auditioning for pin up girls everywhere he goes.

The guy has a beer gut of a size that it appeared he was pregnant with a 5 year old child hidden in his abdomen.

But it is his place to declare how fat and unattractive these women he doesn't know were.

I come across this kind of thing a lot. I don't think it is uncommon. Men seem to think we don't notice their beer guts. :scratchhead:

For me its the FIRST thing I notice!


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## EllisRedding

I love my men with hard bodies, just like @Lila


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## MJJEAN

Faithful Wife said:


> @
> 
> For myself...yes, it matters. Though what I find attractive and call "hot" may not be what others view as attractive and "hot", so it is still a relative thing.
> 
> 
> I had to chuckle because, do guys actually think that women ARE ok with beer guts on men?
> 
> 
> And a huge increase in fat weight would definitely make me loose attraction. A huge increase in muscle weight would most likely make me more attracted....though there is a line of "too much". Though my current boyfriend would never be a muscle head like that so no worries there. :)
> 
> On the thread in the mens sections, [MENTION=34374]bandit.45 said "Depends on where on the anatomy the weight gain occurs. If it is distributed to the right areas I have little complaint.


It sure is relative! My DH is a big guy with a beer gut and I love it. I have a thing for barrel chested, broad shouldered, big guys. That's my hot.

DH has gained weight and it did not affect how physically attracted to him I am at all. I question how attracted to him I would be if he suddenly became Mr Universe. I am not a fan of men with washboard abs.

Like @bandit.45 my DH has said that weight gain on my end isn't a problem depending on where the weight settles. DH doesn't mind some weight gain if the weight is distributed proportionately.


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## Faithful Wife

MJJEAN said:


> I question how attracted to him I would be if he suddenly became Mr Universe. I am not a fan of men with washboard abs.


Mr. Universe is quite a difference than just some washboard abs! :surprise:

I think that weird huge body builder type of thing is just odd looking. Though I have to admit, in my youth, watching Conan movies, I imagined swinging on his arms like monkey bars more than a few times. 

I've never been with anyone who has washboard abs, I think that is just a tad shy on body fat normally. Though it looks good on some people.

My cousin for instance. She simply doesn't have fat cells on her belly. She never has. When she gains weight, it is never there, always other places. So her tummy has always been flat, and then with the minimum amount of fitness her abs are visible. On her it looks so great! It isn't like she constantly has to work on it, it is natural for her because of the lack of fat cells on her torso.

I'm the opposite, when I gain weight it all goes to my mid section. Wish I could just get more boobs and hips, but that's not how I was made. Dang it!


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## MJJEAN

Faithful Wife said:


> Mr. Universe is quite a difference than just some washboard abs! :surprise:
> 
> I think that weird huge body builder type of thing is just odd looking. Though I have to admit, in my youth, watching Conan movies, I imagined swinging on his arms like monkey bars more than a few times.
> 
> I've never been with anyone who has washboard abs, I think that is just a tad shy on body fat normally. Though it looks good on some people.
> 
> My cousin for instance. She simply doesn't have fat cells on her belly. She never has. When she gains weight, it is never there, always other places. So her tummy has always been flat, and then with the minimum amount of fitness her abs are visible. On her it looks so great! It isn't like she constantly has to work on it, it is natural for her because of the lack of fat cells on her torso.
> 
> I'm the opposite, when I gain weight it all goes to my mid section. Wish I could just get more boobs and hips, but that's not how I was made. Dang it!


I'm not a fan of muscular men in general. I find the average sports/athletic build aesthetically pleasing, like looking at art, but it does nothing for me sexually, ya know?

Of course you thought about swinging from Arnold like he is a jungle gym! It's freakin Arnie! Even I would swing from his tree like limbs. Arnie and Vin Diesel are the only two men I give a pass to. >


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## EllisRedding

MJJEAN said:


> Of course you thought about swinging from Arnold like he is a jungle gym! It's freakin Arnie! Even I would swing from his tree like limbs. Arnie and Vin Diesel are the only two men I give a pass to. >


Which Vin Diesel? :grin2:


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## Faithful Wife

MJJEAN said:


> I'm not a fan of muscular men in general. I find the average sports/athletic build aesthetically pleasing, like looking at art, but it does nothing for me sexually, ya know?
> 
> Of course you thought about swinging from Arnold like he is a jungle gym! It's freakin Arnie! Even I would swing from his tree like limbs. Arnie and Vin Diesel are the only two men I give a pass to. >


And don't forget.....The Rock. Nom nom. :laugh:


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Which Vin Diesel? :grin2:


There is very little effort between these two pictures, actually. Maybe a month of gym time? The human body is amazing, isn't it? Fitness basically works the same on every body. It is natural to be fit and work the body a lot, that's what nature intended. Not to the extremes of Mr. Universe. But certainly, nature designed us to hunt and gather and did not create Twinkies on trees for us to eat.


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> There is very little effort between these two pictures, actually. Maybe a month of gym time? The human body is amazing, isn't it? Fitness basically works the same on every body. It is natural to be fit and work the body a lot, that's what nature intended. Not to the extremes of Mr. Universe. But certainly, nature designed us to hunt and gather and did not create Twinkie trees for us to eat.


No, unless you are getting steroids involved (which the Rock, Diesel, and many others use), you are not making those changes in 1 month.


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## farsidejunky

I can't pack that much muscle on in 6 months. Probably not even in 16 months.


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## EllisRedding

farsidejunky said:


> I can't pack that much muscle on in 6 months. Probably not even in 16 months.


Kinda reminds me of those women who say they don't want to lift weights or don't want to lift heavy weights because they don't want to become too bulky/muscular lol. Yeah, it is that easy, lift a few heavy weights and all of a sudden you got muscles poppin out of your arse


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> No, unless you are getting steroids involved (which the Rock, Diesel, and many others use), you are not making those changes in 1 month.


Um....really look at the 2 pictures. In the out of shape one, he doesn't have any body fat. He is just letting his abs slack completely and has a full belly. But you can see that even in that picture, if he sucked his gut in, you would see nothing but a flat stomach. When you are fit over and over like Vin is (and Arnie), you can go from out of shape to in shape fairly quickly.

I myself have done this over the years many times. When you have been more muscly for a long period of time and then let it go, it comes back really fast. That is, if you have not gained a lot of fat on top of it that hides the definition.

There's no fat hanging off Vin's gut.

Have you seen these type of stories lately? There's a lot of similar pics floating the internet.

Fitness Blogger?s Photos of 'Food Baby' Bloated Stomach Go Viral - Us Weekly


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Kinda reminds me of those women who say they don't want to lift weights or don't want to lift heavy weights because they don't want to become too bulky/muscular lol. Yeah, it is that easy, lift a few heavy weights and all of a sudden you got muscles poppin out of your arse


Ok, let's get it straight what I was saying, though.

Vin is a muscle man and has done this thing over and over.

I am an athlete, and have a large amount of muscles that never leave me...though they do get smaller when I'm not as active. Yet, if I want to, I can get to my buffest again in no time. This has a lot to do with my diet and basic core strength as well.

So no....please do not misunderstand me.

John Goodman isn't going to go from his usual size to the second Vin picture in a month.

But Vin can.

I know a bit about fitness and nutrition.


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> Um....really look at the 2 pictures. In the out of shape one, he doesn't have any body fat. He is just letting his abs slack completely and has a full belly. But you can see that even in that picture, if he sucked his gut in, you would see nothing but a flat stomach. When you are fit over and over like Vin is (and Arnie), you can go from out of shape to in shape fairly quickly.
> 
> I myself have done this over the years many times. When you have been more muscly for a long period of time and then let it go, it comes back really fast. That is, if you have not gained a lot of fat on top of it that hides the definition.
> 
> There's no fat hanging off Vin's gut.
> 
> Have you seen these type of stories lately? There's a lot of similar pics floating the internet.
> 
> Fitness Blogger?s Photos of 'Food Baby' Bloated Stomach Go Viral - Us Weekly


You can definitely change your look easily in a few minutes, make yourself look bloated, etc.. That is a known trick for a lot of the people who do these before/after shots (aside from lighting, skin tone, body hair, etc...)

However, he still did have a substantial amount of muscle in the right pic vs the left one. Sorry, but you aren't adding that much of a muscle mass difference while losing body fat (guessing he is sub 10% bf in the pic) in a month, especially without the help of steroids (and at his age).

I have no issues if guys in Hollywood use steroids, HGH, etc... Heck, if I was in Hollywood and my physique needed to be at a certain level to maintain or bolster my career, I would do the same thing. However, it is a shame when the average person sees this, reads about the guys diet/training regimen, follow to a T, and don't even come close to the same results (b/c there is a missing ingredient  )


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> I know a bit about fitness and nutrition.


Nah, I know from your other posts that you do know about, but who says I don't :wink2:


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> You can definitely change your look easily in a few minutes, make yourself look bloated, etc.. That is a known trick for a lot of the people who do these before/after shots (aside from lighting, skin tone, body hair, etc...)
> 
> However, he still did have a substantial amount of muscle in the right pic vs the left one. Sorry, but you aren't adding that much of a muscle mass difference while losing body fat (guessing he is sub 10% bf in the pic) in a month, especially without the help of steroids (and at his age).
> 
> I have no issues if guys in Hollywood use steroids, HGH, etc... Heck, if I was in Hollywood and my physique needed to be at a certain level to maintain or bolster my career, I would do the same thing. However, it is a shame when the average person sees this, reads about the guys diet/training regimen, follow to a T, and don't even come close to the same results (b/c there is a missing ingredient  )


In my experience, men who have a lifetime full of mature muscle, can pump it up very quickly.

Again...I'm looking at the two pics of Vin and assuming he has only taken a few months off from working out, because he still has a lot of mature muscle visible in the left picture and little body fat. His abs, to me, just look slack, not fat (over or under).

When you have mature muscle, and you've only let it go for a short time, it WANTS to come raging back, and does so very quickly.

This would not be true if you let your muscles go for a long period of time. But from the pictures, I assume Vin did not let it go very long.

My ex-h had such enormous strength and lots of mature muscle. His arms were always getting somewhat of work out from simply working on the house and staying active. But if he got house bound for a few months, they would get a little smaller, though still very large and strong. I swear to god, he could do nothing but do 50 push ups a day for a week or two and re-increase his arms size by several inches.

Again...I'm not applying these same distinctions to EVERYONE. I'm talking about when you've already got a lot of mature muscle, like Vin does.


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Nah, I know from your other posts that you do know about, but who says I don't :wink2:


I think you do...but I'm kind of surprised by what you are seeing in the Vin pictures versus what I am seeing.


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> In my experience, men who have a lifetime full of mature muscle, can pump it up very quickly.
> 
> Again...I'm looking at the two pics of Vin and assuming he has only taken a few months off from working out, because he still has a lot of mature muscle visible in the left picture and little body fat. His abs, to me, just look slack, not fat (over or under).
> 
> When you have mature muscle, and you've only let it go for a short time, it WANTS to come raging back, and does so very quickly.
> 
> This would not be true if you let your muscles go for a long period of time. But from the pictures, I assume Vin did not let it go very long.
> 
> My ex-h had such enormous strength and lots of mature muscle. His arms were always getting somewhat of work out from simply working on the house and staying active. But if he got house bound for a few months, they would get a little smaller, though still very large and strong. I swear to god, he could do nothing but do 50 push ups a day for a week or two and re-increase his arms size by several inches.
> 
> Again...I'm not applying these same distinctions to EVERYONE. I'm talking about when you've already got a lot of mature muscle, like Vin does.


Well, it isn't like Vin suddenly had just his biceps blow up. His entire upper body got more muscle while getting shredded. Factor in his age and how much more difficult it is for a guy as he gets older, and if Vin hoped to accomplish that in a short time frame, he had pharmaceutical help. That is all I am saying. That is not a "natural" transformation in a short amount of time, especially when factoring in age. Of course these pics are probably years apart though so our debate is a bit of a moot point :grin2:


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> I think you do...but I'm kind of surprised by what you are seeing in the Vin pictures versus what I am seeing.


Well, do I think a guy can go from the left pic to the right pic, yes. Can they do it in a month, especially at his age, without pharma help, no, mainly because you are talking about increasing muscle mass while simultaneously decreasing BF% significantly in a short period of time
@Faithful Wife I think we just drove everyone else away from this thread lol


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Well, do I think a guy can go from the left pic to the right pic, yes. Can they do it in a month, especially at his age, without pharma help, no, mainly because you are talking about increasing muscle mass while simultaneously decreasing BF% significantly in a short period of time
> 
> @Faithful Wife I think we just drove everyone else away from this thread lol


Its ok. They will be back when someone, somehow brings up red pill. :laugh:

I hear you on the steroids. I am sure you are correct.

I just have personally known a lot of men who through good genes, good diet, and a lifetime of working hard and staying active have a lot of mature muscle. I've seen them transform very quickly from out of shape (for them, which is still pretty in shape) and to their top form, many times. So while I'm sure you are right when it comes to hollywood and body builders...I think the average hunk with muscles got his naturally.


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## MrsHolland

It is all in the shoulders for me. i can handle weight around the middle but they have to have strong, broad shoulders.

The whole dad bod thing is a crock, a soft pudgy guy is a major turn off.


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## EllisRedding

I got nothing on red pill lol

Along the lines of the conversation here, and honestly I would have to ask my W, it is hard for me to say exactly how much she cares about my body. When we first met I was very lean / borderline lanky, although I did always have built/defined arms. Over the years as I got more into lifting I did bulk up, but somewhere along the way once we had kids let things get away from me. No one would say I was overweight because of how I carried my weight, going back to a few other comments here about it being important how she/he carries the weight. I just looked like a stocky dude (people would ask me if I was a cop or ex football player lol). Really though, I was overweight, even if I had muscle I still had plenty of fat lol. At no point did I think this had impacted my Ws attraction to me (but once again, I would need to ask my W and have her answer honestly). 

After getting my $hit together, and fast forward to now, I have a lot more muscle and a lot less fat. From a physique standpoint I am in the best shape I have ever been in. Is my W more attracted to me now b/c of this versus previously, once again, I really don't know. I know she likes to constantly make comparisons of myself vs all the other husbands she sees, but maybe that is more pride then attraction? If I think of it, maybe I will ask her, tell her my questioning is purely for TAM research :grin2:


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## Faithful Wife

MrsHolland said:


> It is all in the shoulders for me. i can handle weight around the middle but they have to have strong, broad shoulders.
> 
> The whole dad bod thing is a crock, a soft pudgy guy is a major turn off.


In the 70's, there was a slogan men used to bandy about....No Fat Chicks. There were bumper stickers, and I even would see men with handmade signs saying this hanging in their back window.

The new slogan should be....No Dad Bods!! :grin2:


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> I got nothing on red pill lol
> 
> Along the lines of the conversation here, and honestly I would have to ask my W, it is hard for me to say exactly how much she cares about my body. When we first met I was very lean / borderline lanky, although I did always have built/defined arms. Over the years as I got more into lifting I did bulk up, but somewhere along the way once we had kids let things get away from me. No one would say I was overweight because of how I carried my weight, going back to a few other comments here about it being important how she/he carries the weight. I just looked like a stocky dude (people would ask me if I was a cop or ex football player lol). Really though, I was overweight, even if I had muscle I still had plenty of fat lol. At no point did I think this had impacted my Ws attraction to me (but once again, I would need to ask my W and have her answer honestly).
> 
> After getting my $hit together, and fast forward to now, I have a lot more muscle and a lot less fat. From a physique standpoint I am in the best shape I have ever been in. Is my W more attracted to me now b/c of this versus previously, once again, I really don't know. I know she likes to constantly make comparisons of myself vs all the other husbands she sees, but maybe that is more pride then attraction? If I think of it, maybe I will ask her, tell her my questioning is purely for TAM research :grin2:


Please do ask her, I'd be curious!

I'm also fascinated that you don't really know. :scratchhead:

I guess I just talk too much and ask too many questions. There's no way I wouldn't know about something like this in my relationship. 

Or maybe I'm just too obsessed with sex and attraction and you are normal and are not.


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> Please do ask her, I'd be curious!
> 
> I'm also fascinated that you don't really know. :scratchhead:
> 
> I guess I just talk too much and ask too many questions. There's no way I wouldn't know about something like this in my relationship.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just too obsessed with sex and attraction and you are normal and are not.


Well, if you go by the frequency of our sex life then you would have to conclude she isn't more attracted to my current physique lol. 

I think the difference, in general she is a lower drive. Over the years, especially once we had kids, it has become a bit more apparent our drive mismatch. So I think with you being a high drive individual, you would make it perfectly clear to your SO your attraction to them (I believe you would agree with this?). With my W, she may very well be more attracted to me now vs. in the past (and she does say things that leads me to believe that, does brag about me at times), but actions don't quite follow words. Not sure if that makes sense, but without the actions the words can ring kinda hollow, so that is why I am not sure I could answer.


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## WorkingOnMe

My weight fluctuates on an annual cycle. I gain during my busy season, then lose during the climbing season. My wife definitely notices when my gut goes away. In fact she just commented on it a couple days ago.


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## Lila

EllisRedding said:


> I love my men with hard bodies, just like @Lila


Omg, that's a hot mess right there, lmao. Thank you for the laugh. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## dubsey

Ok, according to my better half, she prefers pudgy me to in shape me. The Vin pictures above are pretty close to the difference. I'm not quite as strong, but do triathlons, so not near as much upper body, but still quite strong.

She doesn't like it because of the difference in our appearance. I got in shape when we split and ended up divorced. Dropped 25 pounds, and wasn't really all that out of shape when it started. All I did during that time was work out. So, when we reconciled about a year after we split, well, reconciled isn't the right word, restarted a relationship (still divorced) she does not like the fit version of me. She says it's nice to look at, but every time I get out of the shower it's a reminder of what happened, because I only look like that because of her poor choice.

So, in our case, it's the difference in fitness more so than if she likes it or not.


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## EllisRedding

Here is another question (and I guess can really be gender neutral). How many people would not like their SO to have a "great" body b/c it would bring out a lot of insecurities in themselves (i.e. their own body image, possibly concerns your SO with the great body will be more desired by others, etc...)


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## thefam

My H got back from a temp assignment a week or so ago. When I last saw him only 7 or so weeks and he has lost a LOT of weight. Still fit and buff but I don't care for him being this thin especially after all the weight i gained from our 7 week old. I need to lose and he needs to gain.


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## WorkingOnMe

EllisRedding said:


> Here is another question (and I guess can really be gender neutral). How many people would not like their SO to have a "great" body b/c it would bring out a lot of insecurities in themselves (i.e. their own body image, possibly concerns your SO with the great body will be more desired by others, etc...)




My wife is the kind of person who can become quite cruel when she's better at something or more fit. I don't think it's the insecurities per se but I don't like being treated badly, mocked or teased because she can run a faster mile than me or because she's wearing a size 3. If she keeps her mouth shut about it then I can be happy for her.


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## Celes

Yes I care. When I met my husband, he was 165lbs at 5'8 with some muscle. He looked great. Now he's 190. I would prefer he lose 15-20 lbs which he's working on. He lost it right in time for the wedding then gained it back, so I know he can do it. The doctor also mentioned he should lose weight. We're working on being more active together as a couple and eating healthier.


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## bandit.45

> So when you put it out there on the thread in the mens section "beer guts, no"....I just had to chuckle. Like, does it actually need to be said out loud that most people are not attracted to beer guts on men OR women? I still believe a lot of men who have a gut like that think that women don't care, while they definitely WOULD care if the same was on their woman.






Good body fat proportioning:











Not good:


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## katiecrna

So attraction is important to me obviously but I am more attracted to what I perceive as intelligence and that being said a health conscious person. 
This is how I am... I care about my health first and foremost. Then I care about my looks. Some people only care about the way they look so they workout and try to get a certain look/body type that they think looks good. I am attracted to health conscious people bc to me it reflects intelligence and I respect it. I am not attracted to people who care so much about the way they look, bc this reflects someone who is way to into themselves, narcissistic/materialistic/****y attitude that I find dumb. Like a "dumb jock", that is a total turn off to me. 
So it's not so much male fitness so much as someone that works out, eats healthy to be healthy. I can't stand those guys that are meat heads, that are so focused on sculpting a specific part of their body, that tan, wear too much gel and stare in the mirror too much. 
We don't have a scale in our house. It's not about a weight or body size I try to fit into. To me... eating healthy and being able to run a few miles a week means I am in shape enough. I don't care how In shape you look or how many muscles you have, if you can't run a 5k, to me your not healthy.


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## farsidejunky

I am right now the leanest I have ever been. For the past two months my wife has been commenting about how my butt has disappeared.

I am pretty pleased with the way things are looking at this point.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

katiecrna said:


> I don't care how In shape you look or how many muscles you have, if you can't run a 5k, to me your not healthy.


:scratchhead:


----------



## katiecrna

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> :scratchhead:




Being able to run a few miles in my opinion means your physically healthy. Being able to lift a barbell in my opinion does not mean your healthy. I care about being heart healthy, being able to run IMO reflects physical health. 
Btw I may be biased bc I use to work on a CTICU as a nurse and I took care of patient after patient getting cabgs, (bypasses), and seeing heart attack after heart attack.


----------



## EllisRedding

katiecrna said:


> Being able to run a few miles in my opinion means your physically healthy. Being able to lift a barbell in my opinion does not mean your healthy. I care about being heart healthy, being able to run IMO reflects physical health.
> Btw I may be biased bc I use to work on a CTICU as a nurse and I took care of patient after patient getting cabgs, (bypasses), and seeing heart attack after heart attack.


So if someone had bad knees, asthma, or maybe some other ailments that made running difficult, you would not consider them heart healthy because they could not manage a 5k :scratchhead:


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish

katiecrna said:


> Being able to run a few miles in my opinion means your physically healthy. Being able to lift a barbell in my opinion does not mean your healthy. I care about being heart healthy, being able to run IMO reflects physical health.
> Btw I may be biased bc I use to work on a CTICU as a nurse and I took care of patient after patient getting cabgs, (bypasses), and seeing heart attack after heart attack.



Oh no, I got it the first time. It's snooty opinion, that's all.


----------



## katiecrna

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Oh no, I got it the first time. It's snooty opinion, that's all.




Thanks.
I don't want a cross fitter, power lifter, guy that spends hours a week in the gym. All I want is for a guy to be able to run 3 miles and that's snooty? Okkkkkk


----------



## WorkingOnMe

katiecrna said:


> Being able to run a few miles in my opinion means your physically healthy. Being able to lift a barbell in my opinion does not mean your healthy. I care about being heart healthy, being able to run IMO reflects physical health.
> Btw I may be biased bc I use to work on a CTICU as a nurse and I took care of patient after patient getting cabgs, (bypasses), and seeing heart attack after heart attack.




I suck at running. But I've climbed Mt. Rainier 4 times and have beat many runners to the top. And I ride centuries most of the year. But ya, if I do a 5k there's going to be some walking. My resting heart rate is in the 50s. I think my heart health is pretty decent.


----------



## katiecrna

I don't need rock hard abs, huge biceps, less than 5% body weight. Just run 3 miles...


----------



## katiecrna

WorkingOnMe said:


> I suck at running. But I've climbed Mt. Rainier 4 times and have beat many runners to the top. And I ride centuries most of the year. But ya, if I do a 5k there's going to be some walking. My resting heart rate is in the 50s. I think my heart health is pretty decent.




I'm sure you can jog 3 miles at a slow pace.


----------



## katiecrna

EllisRedding said:


> So if someone had bad knees, asthma, or maybe some other ailments that made running difficult, you would not consider them heart healthy because they could not manage a 5k :scratchhead:




Bad knees are different. 
But asthma... I don't know. Your asthma should be well controlled that's a whole other issue. I have friends that have asthma and use their inhalers when they run and compete. If your asthma is THAT bad you have bigger issues to deal with.

I'm talking about a "normal" person with no ortho problems or breathing problems. There are millions of reasons why someone can't run due to illness and disease, I'm not talking about those people.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

katiecrna said:


> I'm sure you can jog 3 miles at a slow pace.




Probably true. I can do 13 minute miles all day long.


----------



## FeministInPink

OK, so back to the original question... I've never been into guys who are really ripped. I mean, they are fun to drool over in magazines, but when it comes to in person, I've never been all that interested. It may be because I'm overweight myself, and always have been. 

Real Estate (my beau) is a teddy bear, and he does have a little bit of a beer gut. It doesn't bother me... in fact, this tends to be the type of guy I go for. But it REALLY bothers him. Like a LOT. Because he used to be really fit. I try to encourage him to make changes to his diet and to workout, so he can make those changes to his physique, but he hasn't found the willpower to do it thus far.

Oddly enough, I've decided to start working out and eating better (I'm on day 4!)... losing weight and getting in shape has been one of those goals I've had pretty much my entire life, but never manage to pull off. I know Real Estate would like it if I would lose weight (this is for ME, not for him)... but it makes me wonder. If I get on the fitness train, and he doesn't... and I get in shape and lose all this weight and he doesn't... will I still find him attractive? I'm worried that I won't. I'm a little scared to find out.


----------



## katiecrna

@FeministInPink no one is to know. But that should never stop you from getting healthy and fit. 
I think people lose attraction for their partner when it's an extreme change... like turn into a fitness fanatic that consumes your life. But adopting a healthy lifestyle and shedding some lbs shouldnt change your attraction. And a little beer gut is not significant to lose attraction over unless he gets bigger and bigger.


----------



## SunCMars

Faithful Wife said:


> There is very little effort between these two pictures, actually. * Maybe a month of gym time? *The human body is amazing, isn't it? Fitness basically works the same on every body. It is natural to be fit and work the body a lot, that's what nature intended. Not to the extremes of Mr. Universe. But certainly, nature designed us to hunt and gather and did not create Twinkies on trees for us to eat.


Try 12 months, 5 days a week, 2 hours a day.


----------



## FeministInPink

katiecrna said:


> @FeministInPink no one is to know. But that should never stop you from getting healthy and fit.
> I think people lose attraction for their partner when it's an extreme change... like turn into a fitness fanatic that consumes your life. But adopting a healthy lifestyle and shedding some lbs shouldnt change your attraction. And a little beer gut is not significant to lose attraction over unless he gets bigger and bigger.


If he doesn't make some changes, it will get bigger... I've seen some pictures of him from ~2 years ago, and he's put on a fair amount of weight since then.

He has basically asked me to shame him into getting into shape. If he asks me to get him some gummi bears at the store, he wants me to respond along the lines of, "You don't need any gummi bears, fatty." And I won't do it. I'm not going to be mean to him and ridicule him to get him to lose weight. I won't do it. It violates every thing that I believe about relationships and treating your loved ones. He might start working out and eating better, but it will also ruin our relationship... and I honestly don't see how he thinks that me treating him like sh!t would motivate him to work out and lose weight. That has never worked for me. And how he doesn't see that it would ruin our relationship.


----------



## Faithful Wife

SunCMars said:


> Try 12 months, 5 days a week, 2 hours a day.


Yes ok but did you read my other posts?

I'm not talking about just "any guy" I was talking specifically about Vin and other guys who have been very fit and muscular part or most of their lives, and then just slack off on work out for a short time, getting it back in a month. I have seen men do this before my very eyes. But they were fit initially and had lots of mature muscle.


----------



## Faithful Wife

bandit.45 said:


> Good body fat proportioning:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not good:



Ok you are just poking me, I assume? I hope so, because I can't think of any other reason for you to post this, it is simply in bad taste and unnecessary and mean.


----------



## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Well, if you go by the frequency of our sex life then you would have to conclude she isn't more attracted to my current physique lol.
> 
> *I think the difference, in general she is a lower drive.* Over the years, especially once we had kids, it has become a bit more apparent our drive mismatch. So I think with you being a high drive individual, you would make it perfectly clear to your SO your attraction to them (I believe you would agree with this?). With my W, she may very well be more attracted to me now vs. in the past (and she does say things that leads me to believe that, does brag about me at times), but actions don't quite follow words. Not sure if that makes sense, but without the actions the words can ring kinda hollow, so that is why I am not sure I could answer.


Perhaps someone who is naturally LD doesn't necessarily notice more or less of what they are sexually attracted to? Maybe they don't feel that "thump" in their heart (or genitals) when they see someone who they are attracted to? 

I think that is true for asexual people. If we are on a sexual spectrum, it could be sort of true for LD folks, too maybe?


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> I know Real Estate would like it if I would lose weight (this is for ME, not for him)... but it makes me wonder. If I get on the fitness train, and he doesn't... and I get in shape and lose all this weight and he doesn't... will I still find him attractive? I'm worried that I won't. I'm a little scared to find out.


Interesting. Let us know what happens! 

But definitely lose weight for yourself if you are feeling inspired to do so, and let the chips falls where they may.


----------



## MJJEAN

EllisRedding said:


> Which Vin Diesel? :grin2:


Either works. It's Vin. I've had a thing for him since Pitch Black came out, lol.



Faithful Wife said:


> And don't forget.....The Rock. Nom nom. :laugh:


Nope, just Arnie and Vin.


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Interesting. Let us know what happens!
> 
> But definitely lose weight for yourself if you are feeling inspired to do so, and let the chips falls where they may.


Well, I'm only on day 4, so it will be a long time before I can give an update on that. He hasn't started working out yet... I think he might be waiting to see if I stick with it.

My mother has never been a terribly supportive person, she never pays many conpliments, and she doesn't know me anywhere near as well as she thinks she does, but there is one thing that she said about me once a long time ago that has stuck with me. She said, "FIP, you've always been strong willed, and when you make a promise or say you're going to do something, you stick to it."

I hope she's right on that one.

(But I'm not telling her about the whole working out and eating better thing. Whenever I've said that I'm going to get in shape/lose weight/etc, her response has always been to snort and say, "I'll believe that when I see it." But I know that's about her and her own struggles with weight, which she's never really been successful at until the last ten years or so. And only then it's because she needed to get her blood sugar and heart rate down because she would have otherwise lost her job, and she hasn't lost as much weight as she wanted. She's still bitter.)


----------



## jld

Faithful Wife said:


> Fair enough. Though you did have a thread here recently asking if women are into bigger men these days. A lot of women are into bigger men. But "bigger men" is one thing and can mean taller, buffer, more muscle, more overall size. * If you had titled the post "are women into big beer guts these days?" I'm pretty sure you would have gotten a solid stream of "no, not so much" answers.*
> 
> So when you put it out there on the thread in the mens section "beer guts, no"....I just had to chuckle. Like, does it actually need to be said out loud that most people are not attracted to beer guts on men OR women? I still believe a lot of men who have a gut like that think that women don't care, while they definitely WOULD care if the same was on their woman.
> 
> A guy who is an acquaintance of mine was back from vacation in a remote area in Oregon once, and was commenting on how all the women in the small town there were the size of buffaloes, and thus incredibly unattractive. He's married, so I don't really understand the point of talking about a lack of attraction to other women anyway? But his wife was standing right there so I guess she is just used to him needing to discuss the size and weight of other women, for whatever reason, as if he is a beauty pageant judge or auditioning for pin up girls everywhere he goes.
> 
> The guy has a beer gut of a size that it appeared he was pregnant with a 5 year old child hidden in his abdomen.
> 
> But it is his place to declare how fat and unattractive these women he doesn't know were.
> 
> I come across this kind of thing a lot. I don't think it is uncommon. Men seem to think we don't notice their beer guts. :scratchhead:
> 
> For me its the FIRST thing I notice!


This whole post was just great, FW. The whole thing had me laughing, especially the bolded. Thanks for that.


----------



## bandit.45

Faithful Wifex said:


> Ok you are just poking me, I assume? I hope so, because I can't think of any other reason for you to post this, it is simply in bad taste and unnecessary and mean.


You asked a question. I wanted to make sure you understood my answer.


----------



## 71Climber

I realize that I am in the women's forum, and so I offer an apology up front, as I am a guy. I am certainly not trying to enter your place without permission, and so I ask for such permission to post... This issue is a significant one, I think, and I really would love to hear a woman's opinion regarding the role of physical attraction in the overall relationship. What is important to people in the complex world of attraction, arousal templates, etc, is all over the place, for sure. I have heard it said that sexual attraction/physical attraction is not essential for marriage, but rather what is most important is the very essence of a person-his/her character, integrity, kindness, spirit, etc. Certainly, I believe that non-sexual intimacy is first and foremost, and that includes friendship, enjoying being around one another, communication, laughter, so many things. But I for one, as a man, am very sight-oriented. My love language is physical. What draws me to a woman is being able to involve my senses. There is something in which I am unable to explain about the form of a woman's body that, when admired, creates an initial desire to interact, to get closer. I believe that the act of physical intimacy brings everything together, and is the way I receive love. By the same token, I believe that women primarily feel loved and cared for in the acts leading up to the physical act, those things that speak love to a woman and increase her oxytocin are when a man notices her, is kind to her, makes her feel special, does things for her, thinks of her, helps her, lets her know she's special, and there are a hundred things there. When she feels loved and cared for, she is able to move towards him so that he can feel loved. Ok, so, enough of that...here's where I am..I am 45, and I work very hard to maintain myself physically. I am 6'0', 163lbs, and I do not have a "gut", but am very lean and muscular. I eat right and get plenty of rest, and despite my very busy schedule, I make time to do Crossfit, run, etc. I have lost physical attraction for my wife. She is probably 30lbs overweight. I am not looking for a porn star for a wife. But my question to the ladies is this: If I am maintaining myself not only for myself, but for my wife, isn't it reasonable to expect the same from her? Beauty is not skin deep, but a huge component of passion is physical attraction, and I am struggling with the guilt of feeling very shallow, and at the same time not being able to deny that this is an issue for me. I want to WANT my wife, in addition to thinking she's an awesome person. And, quite honestly, the lack of taking care of yourself in this way, I actually begin to resent it, which I know is not good. Ladies..please help!!!


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

71Climber said:


> Ok, so, enough of that...here's where I am..I am 45, and I work very hard to maintain myself physically. I am 6'0', 163lbs, and I do not have a "gut", but am very lean and muscular. I eat right and get plenty of rest, and despite my very busy schedule, I make time to do Crossfit, run, etc. I have lost physical attraction for my wife. She is probably 30lbs overweight. I am not looking for a porn star for a wife. But my question to the ladies is this: If I am maintaining myself not only for myself, but for my wife, isn't it reasonable to expect the same from her?


You're doing it for yourself. You'd be doing it whether you were married or *not*. But it sure sounds altruistic - that you're '_also_' doing it for her so it gives credence to your argument that you want her to lose 30 pounds.

But I DO understand what you're saying. She just doesn't share the same passion that you do about staying lean and mean. I don't know what the magic answer is that will make her suddenly feel the need to start working out and losing weight. That really has to come from her.


----------



## heartsbeating

Faithful Wife said:


> @jld has a couple of threads about men's attraction to women's bodies, based on weight/fitness. I am wondering about the women's feelings about their men's bodies.


Batman was lean when we met and started dating. He gained a bit of weight over the years and it suits him. If he were to work-out and build muscle, there's no denying I'd find that attractive. However that's not to say I'd find him _more_ attractive. He won't go to the gym and do weights. He prefers exercise to be functional; gained mostly with yard work and firefighting stuff. And he is fit as a result. I respect that that can be hard work. He's not concerned with muscles for appearance. He's self-accepting 'Eh, this is who I am..' which is more about _how_ he chooses to live. If his clothes start to get tight because of weight gain, he makes adjustments with food to have his clothes fit better again. 

It's largely the habits and behaviors that would affect attraction for both of us. It's not just about whether he has muscles or not... or certain amount of body fat... or body hair... or whatever else, it's the complete picture of habits. He eats reasonably healthy and accepts himself. When his muscles are sore, it's because he's worked hard for us or he's doing what's needed to help people. That is undeniably sexy to me. 

How he can make a chocolate chip cookie last a whole week is beyond me.


----------



## heartsbeating

Faithful Wife said:


> [MENTION=105122]Now...I know many women don't mind a gut on a man or a bit of softness. Many men don't mind this either. But generally speaking, it would seem that men hold women to a higher physical standard than they hold themselves, and yet don't see this as a double standard. Maybe these guys don't actually expect a woman to need to feel physical attraction anyway, or that we somehow "can't see" a huge gut? Even though, the same men most certainly would see a huge gut and find it unattractive.


I would have thought the opposite... that women hold themselves to a more critical / higher standard than their man would. Or maybe that's just me.


----------



## Mr. Nail

If I could just put on 7 inches of height. But since all the diet and exercise , and even surgery in the world, won't accomplish that there is little point worrying about biceps and six packs.


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish

heartsbeating said:


> How he can make a chocolate chip cookie last a whole week is beyond me.


:rofl::rofl:

That's some serious discipline!


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish

I'm more attracted to the eyes of a man than anything else. If I look into a mans eyes and feel drawn in, that's attractive to me. I don't dig skinny men; a man should be a little beefy or meaty. And I don't mean that in terms of muscle necessarily. I like a little soft padding. Although, arm strength is a good trait. You have to be able to open up that jar of salsa that I've been struggling with for 5 minutes. So, to wrap this up. . . .

If you can open up a jar of salsa, have a little bit of padding, and have beautiful eyes, I'm hot for you.


----------



## MrsHolland

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok you are just poking me, I assume? I hope so, because I can't think of any other reason for you to post this, it is simply in bad taste and unnecessary and mean.


Not going to speak for the poster...

however I did not see it as bad taste or mean, in fact quite the opposite. The first woman looks beautiful to me and I admire her confidence to wear bathers at her size. A man posting this pick says to me that men find a curvy shape sexy regardless of size.
I won't comment on the second pic because I will get into trouble.


----------



## EllisRedding

Ladies want a man who can bring in all the groceries in one trip :smthumbup:

Really, the take home message, if you want to get/stay in shape, be healthy, etc... you need to do it for yourself. Do it because you enjoy it. Do it b/c it makes you feel good about yourself. Don't do it to impress someone else, you will just end up being disappointed at the end of the day.


----------



## katies

I think when you marry someone, you expect them to maintain (roughly) their current level of fitness. If a spouse gains a lot of weight during the course of a marriage, well, that is something the other spouse didn't sign up for. I think the spouse has a right to be frustrated over their spouse's changing appearance. Granted, it's a tough road for women after being pregnant but it's still doable. 
Hubby has gained about 25 lbs since we married (29 years ago) but it suits him and I actually like a bigger man.
I weigh the same as I did in 9th grade, but hubby doesn't really like my newly developed muscles. I've been lifting since February. 
I'm not sure what to do about this. I really like my new form, but he likes it less. He didn't sign up for a muscular woman so I can see his point. His physique, baring a major weight gain, is not as big of an issue for me. Part of his gain is muscular. So, he wants to develop muscles but I can't? It's not a huge deal for us but I can see a sticking point with us.


----------



## Cosmos

Whilst intelligence, integrity, good manners and refinement are high on my list of priorities when it comes to me being attracted to a man, the first thing I will notice about him is his overall appearance. Poor grooming and obesity would immediately preclude me from looking further.

FW, the following made me laugh until I cried! :rofl:



> The guy has a beer gut of a size that it appeared he was pregnant with a 5 year old child hidden in his abdomen.
> 
> But it is his place to declare how fat and unattractive these women he doesn't know were.


----------



## jld

Dug has always been pretty fit, at least by my standards. He grew up on a farm, so was always doing manual labor. He has a nicely-proportioned build, is 6'2", and usually around 200 lbs. He is around 190 now because of all the cycling he has been doing this last year. 

He was into cycling before we met, and has taken it up again in the last year. He did nearly 200 miles in 12 hours last summer. I could not help but be impressed by that, and I am not overly impressed by fitness.

He is also a healthy eater. I was about 20 lbs overweight (BMI-wise) for nearly a decade, when we had all little kids. He would mention occasionally that we should go back to a low-fat, vegan diet (we had done that in the late 90s). I knew he was right, but really wanted to keep eating dairy. It was not until I stopped eating it that I lost the weight.

I have to admit, sometimes I have wondered what it would be like to be with someone I could just "have fun with food" with. Dug is way too responsible to ever, say, surprise me by bringing home 3 different flavors of ice cream for us to try. 

Overall, a well-chiseled face and a confident, non-needy personality attract me more than physical fitness, I think, though I probably just take my husband's body for granted. A "hard" body would be pretty meaningless to me if a man did not have those other things.


----------



## jld

Cosmos said:


> Whilst intelligence, integrity, good manners and refinement are high on my list of priorities when it comes to me being attracted to a man, the first thing I will notice about him is his overall appearance. Poor grooming and obesity would immediately preclude me from lookng further.
> 
> FW, the following made me laugh until I cried! :rofl:


I know, wasn't that whole post great!


----------



## EllisRedding

jld said:


> I have to admit, sometimes I have wondered what it would be like to be with someone I could just "have fun with food" with. Dug is way too responsible to ever, say, surprise me by bringing home 3 different flavors of ice cream for us to try.
> 
> .


It is heavenly :grin2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

bandit.45 said:


> You asked a question. I wanted to make sure you understood my answer.


Um no, I never asked you any question.


----------



## Faithful Wife

MrsHolland said:


> Not going to speak for the poster...
> 
> however I did not see it as bad taste or mean, in fact quite the opposite. The first woman looks beautiful to me and I admire her confidence to wear bathers at her size. A man posting this pick says to me that men find a curvy shape sexy regardless of size.
> I won't comment on the second pic because I will get into trouble.


To me it is in bad taste for people to take pictures of strangers at the beach, in their worst possible pose and posture, while the person is completely unaware....and then to put those pictures on the internet purely for the intention of fat shaming this stranger (and by proxy, fat shaming anyone who looks like them). And then for bandit to further this meanness by sharing the same pic again just to say "see this here? THIS is what I am NOT attracted to".

This is a real human being's body. This is a real person with real feelings. She does not deserve to be made a spectacle of for another person's sick pleasure....I call being mean for no reason a sick pleasure for sure. Ha ha, she's so ugly and fat! This type of thing makes people happy to say and spread around.

I find it appalling behavior.

Just because I am not attracted to someone doesn't make me also want to shame that person and point out how horribly ugly or fat they are to other people and spread pictures of a random stranger's body just to further mock and shame them. It is as if these guys decide that if they are "grossed out" by someone, then they also decide that that person has no soul and doesn't deserve kindness. Nope. They deserve to be mocked by as many people in the world as possible.

Wtf. It is just plain mean.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Mr. Nail said:


> If I could just put on 7 inches of height. But since all the diet and exercise , and even surgery in the world, won't accomplish that *there is little point worrying about biceps and six packs*.


:scratchhead::scratchhead:

I don't understand.


----------



## bandit.45

Faithful Wife said:


> To me it is in bad taste for people to take pictures of strangers at the beach, in their worst possible pose and posture, while the person is completely unaware....and then to put those pictures on the internet purely for the intention of fat shaming this stranger (and by proxy, fat shaming anyone who looks like them). And then for bandit to further this meanness by sharing the same pic again just to say "see this here? THIS is what I am NOT attracted to".
> 
> This is a real human being's body. This is a real person with real feelings. She does not deserve to be made a spectacle of for another person's sick pleasure....I call being mean for no reason a sick pleasure for sure. Ha ha, she's so ugly and fat! This type of thing makes people happy to say and spread around.
> 
> I find it appalling behavior.
> 
> Just because I am not attracted to someone doesn't make me also want to shame that person and point out how horribly ugly or fat they are to other people and spread pictures of a random stranger's body just to further mock and shame them. It is as if these guys decide that if they are "grossed out" by someone, then they also decide that that person has no soul and doesn't deserve kindness. Nope. They deserve to be mocked by as many people in the world as possible.
> 
> Wtf. It is just plain mean.


I'm sorry Mrs. Rogers. I won't do it again.


----------



## MrsHolland

Faithful Wife said:


> To me it is in bad taste for people to take pictures of strangers at the beach, in their worst possible pose and posture, while the person is completely unaware....and then to put those pictures on the internet purely for the intention of fat shaming this stranger (and by proxy, fat shaming anyone who looks like them). And then for bandit to further this meanness by sharing the same pic again just to say "see this here? THIS is what I am NOT attracted to".
> 
> This is a real human being's body. This is a real person with real feelings. She does not deserve to be made a spectacle of for another person's sick pleasure....I call being mean for no reason a sick pleasure for sure. Ha ha, she's so ugly and fat! This type of thing makes people happy to say and spread around.
> 
> I find it appalling behavior.
> 
> Just because I am not attracted to someone doesn't make me also want to shame that person and point out how horribly ugly or fat they are to other people and spread pictures of a random stranger's body just to further mock and shame them. It is as if these guys decide that if they are "grossed out" by someone, then they also decide that that person has no soul and doesn't deserve kindness. Nope. They deserve to be mocked by as many people in the world as possible.
> 
> Wtf. It is just plain mean.


OK I must have missed something. He did not call her fat and ugly or laugh at her. Two photos showing overweight women, one was attractive, one was not. Of course the posed photo has the benefit of being photo shopped which is another whole topic but I still don't see where he was calling anyone fat and ugly. TBH I was more impressed that a photo of an overweight woman was given the title of "good fat proportion" it is relieving to know stick figure bodies are not the only appealing ones.

I'm scratching my head here FW, you started a thread that encourages people to dissect and put down men's bodies, maybe a warning should have been put on it that no photos of fat women are allowed. The very culture you are giving power to, the culture of shallowness, is what you are also complaining about.


----------



## *Deidre*

Yes, I definitely do as I'm into working out/eating healthy, and I'd prefer that in the guy I'm with. My fiance is in amazing shape, he has to be for his job, but I've tended to date men who are into fitness and eating right. That is what brings about ''instant'' attraction, but it wouldn't be enough by itself to keep a relationship going. Intelligence, humor, thoughtfulness, humility, etc...are all what keeps the attraction building.


----------



## Hellomynameis

When I met my husband he was about 220 pounds. He was an ex high school football player so the weight was part of that but he had let himself go to some extent. At the time I liked his size, it made me feel safe.

By the time he hit 330 pounds the attraction was gone. He was obviously no longer a former athlete who had just gone to seed. And I no longer felt safe because by then I knew he was capable of violence, even though he never actually physically abused me until the day he left me. 

He was very hypocritical about it too. Over the course of our marriage I went from 110 to 140 pounds and he thought that was too much even though I had actually been underweight at 110 (I'm 5 foot 5). He gained over 100 pounds but didn't think it should bother me.


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## *Deidre*

Having read through the thread, it's not just about how someone looks, it also tells me about what a guy prioritizes in his life. Health should be a priority...if you don't have your health, nothing else will matter much.


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## Faithful Wife

MrsHolland said:


> OK I must have missed something. He did not call her fat and ugly or laugh at her. Two photos showing overweight women, one was attractive, one was not. Of course the posed photo has the benefit of being photo shopped which is another whole topic but I still don't see where he was calling anyone fat and ugly. TBH I was more impressed that a photo of an overweight woman was given the title of "good fat proportion" it is relieving to know stick figure bodies are not the only appealing ones.
> 
> I'm scratching my head here FW, you started a thread that encourages people to dissect and put down men's bodies, maybe a warning should have been put on it that no photos of fat women are allowed. The very culture you are giving power to, the culture of shallowness, is what you are also complaining about.


There was another post by bandit in the mens area that started the back and forth thing with me.

I never asked men or bandit in particular any question at all on my thread. I asked the ladies if their man's bod was important to them, after a similar thread in mens was started (which is where bandit's other post was). Therefore, his answer with those pictures on my thread was just like....wtf? I did not ask him anything at all. He had already stated in the other thread "no beer guts", and I saw his answer and knew what he meant. Him posting these pictures here on my thread...is still making me scratch my head with a wtf.

If we want to *discuss* the bodies of other people when talking specifically about our own attraction...I don't see an issue with that. It does not mean we think that no one would ever be attracted to that person just because we are not, especially if we are talking about hypothetical people.

But to then post a picture that was taken of a woman who was unaware and post it as an example of a "beer gut" on someone...I just don't think this is ok. It is mean. That woman is a real human being and it isn't fair her picture is being used by strangers to point out her flaws when all she was doing was enjoying a day at the beach, harming no one.

I don't know, maybe it doesn't seem that bad to some people. I just know that there are plenty of bad angles someone could get a picture of me at the beach to make me look like crap, and that I would be shocked and hurt if someone did this and then sent the picture around the internet so that other people could mock me, too. 

JMO.


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## Mr. Nail

Mr. Nail said:


> If I could just put on 7 inches of height. But since all the diet and exercise , and even surgery in the world, won't accomplish that *there is little point worrying about biceps and six packs*.





Faithful Wife said:


> :scratchhead::scratchhead:
> 
> I don't understand.


I have solid evidence that women consider that any extremely short man (read under six feet tall) is as unattractive as if he was "as ugly as a bridge troll". Once you are in that "basket of Deplorables", fitness is optional.


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## EllisRedding

Mr. Nail said:


> I have solid evidence that women consider that any extremely short man (read under six feet tall) is as unattractive as if he was "as ugly as a bridge troll". Once you are in that "basket of Deplorables", fitness is optional.


I find it interesting how somehow 6ft seems to be the threshhold some/many(?) throw out there.


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## Faithful Wife

Mr. Nail said:


> I have solid evidence that women consider that any extremely short man (read under six feet tall) is as unattractive as if he was "as ugly as a bridge troll". Once you are in that "basket of Deplorables", fitness is optional.


Um, ok. I still have no idea what you are getting at but, feel free to ignore your fitness and your biceps while putting yourself in the basket of deplorables. Have fun with that!

Speaking for myself, heck yes I like a tall man. Though that does not mean (and I have never said here or anywhere else) that this means a man who isn't tall is "ugly". Just because I prefer tall men for my own relationships doesn't make me blind to the fact that lots of non-tall men are certainly *very* attractive. It is just not my preference to be with one.


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## Mr. Nail

Faithful Wife said:


> Speaking for myself, heck yes I like a tall man. Though that does not mean (and I have never said here or anywhere else) that this means a man who isn't tall is "ugly". Just because I prefer tall men for my own relationships doesn't make me blind to the fact that lots of non-tall men are certainly *very* attractive. It is just not my preference to be with one.


Let me save you 66 words. "Not attractive to me" You are no unicorn here. The vast majority of women agree with you. 
Women will go on and on about personality, and fitness, and financials, but in the end if you are under the line, you are Danny DeVito, Not Vin Diesel. Height trumps everything.


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## Faithful Wife

Mr. Nail said:


> Let me save you 66 words. "Not attractive to me" You are no unicorn here. The vast majority of women agree with you.
> Women will go on and on about personality, and fitness, and financials, but in the end if you are under the line, you are Danny DeVito, Not Vin Diesel. Height trumps everything.


Actually I am a unicorn but that is besides the point....

I still have to disagree with what you are saying....because to me it definitely matters that my tall guy also has a good personality and certain level of fitness and financial health. You seem to be implying that if a guy is tall, he doesn't need the other stuff. To me, he needs to have it all.

What do you suggest? That women who have physical preferences should pretend that they don't and lie to you? Or would you just prefer it if women had no preferences?


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> I find it interesting how somehow 6ft seems to be the threshhold some/many(?) throw out there.


Being that the average height of American men is 5'10", I wonder if the preference is actually something like "slightly taller than average"?


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> Being that the average height of American men is 5'10", I wonder if the preference is actually something like "slightly taller than average"?


Actually, I think it is just as simple as 6ft is a nice "round" number lol.

I guess it is a good thing I got married when I did. I was 6ft back in the day but have slowly shrunk down to 5'11" now, so I am in total loser range now


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Actually, I think it is just as simple as 6ft is a nice "round" number lol.
> 
> I guess it is a good thing I got married when I did. I was 6ft back in the day but have slowly shrunk down to 5'11" now, so I am in total loser range now


I prefer 6'3" and taller though, so I guess I just dislike "round" numbers. 

As for total loser range...well duh, I mean, your avatar says it all.


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> I prefer 6'3" and taller though, so I guess I just dislike "round" numbers.
> 
> As for total loser range...well duh, I mean, your avatar says it all.


Oh man, too obvious with the Avatar huh lol.


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## FeministInPink

Mr. Nail said:


> Let me save you 66 words. "Not attractive to me" You are no unicorn here. The vast majority of women agree with you.
> Women will go on and on about personality, and fitness, and financials, but in the end if you are under the line, you are Danny DeVito, Not Vin Diesel. Height trumps everything.


Oh, boo hoo. I'm beginning to think it's your attitude, not your height, that's the problem.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Celes

H is 5'8 and I'm 5'2. I think we fit perfectly together :grin2:


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## AVR1962

I like a fit body for a man but when he has an attitude that he's untouchable because he is in lobe with himself or he is nothing but a gym rat it is a turn off.


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## MrsHolland

Mr. Nail said:


> I have solid evidence that women consider that any extremely short man (read under six feet tall) is as unattractive as if he was "as ugly as a bridge troll". Once you are in that "basket of Deplorables", fitness is optional.


You keep choosing to believe this.


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## Mr. Nail

What I said and will continue to say is that no matter what else a guy has $$$$$, personality, Rock hard abs, marathon endurance, if he isn't 6 feet tall he will not attract you, or any other of the 80% of women with this weird fetish. Starting this thread to discuss the issue of male fitness sidesteps this issue. No matter what a man does he can not add an inch to his stature. As to the other deniers, How long have you been short men?


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## Faithful Wife

Mr. Nail said:


> What I said and will continue to say is that no matter what else a guy has $$$$$, personality, Rock hard abs, marathon endurance, if he isn't 6 feet tall he will not attract you, or any other of the 80% of women with this weird fetish. Starting this thread to discuss the issue of male fitness sidesteps this issue. No matter what a man does he can not add an inch to his stature. As to the other deniers, How long have you been short men?


I don't know your story. Are you a short man who has never been with a woman because none have ever or will ever be attracted to you, or so that is what you believe? Or did some woman tell you that you are completely without value because you are short and then you believed her?

If 80% of women have a similar preference (I'm not saying they do, you did) then why is it a "weird fetish?" 

Even if only a small % of women cared about this, still why would it be a "weird fetish"? 

I think I have seen surveys that concluded that a majority of women pick "tall" as one of their top attraction features, but a majority does not mean 80% and I don't think "tall" meant only over 6'. I think it meant a certain number of inches taller than herself, if I recall the survey correctly. 

My mother is 5'0 and my father was 5'5. To her, he was perfect, and to her he was "tall". She felt a perfect fit with him. He was her ideal. She later married a man who was 6'0 and they never really fit together. My father later married a woman who was 5'7" and although they did not last, she was clearly very into him though she was taller than him. I know he was into her too and liked her height, but I do think he also felt my mother was a better "fit".

I was not side stepping some women's preference for taller men with this thread. When I asked if their fitness/body matters, I meant does any of it matter. Taller is one way it may matter and is about his body.

I know for a fact that some women don't have a strong preference for over 6 ft tall and some do have a strong preference for shorter, like my mom. But those of us who do have a preference for taller, why is this a problem? Big deal, you can't change it, so what? You only have to attract one woman, not all of them. If you literally cannot attract even one woman, I promise you, it isn't your height that is causing this. It would have to be your attitude.


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## MrsHolland

Mr. Nail said:


> What I said and will continue to say is that no matter what else a guy has $$$$$, personality, Rock hard abs, marathon endurance, if he isn't 6 feet tall he will not attract you, or any other of the 80% of women with this weird fetish. Starting this thread to discuss the issue of male fitness sidesteps this issue. No matter what a man does he can not add an inch to his stature. As to the other deniers, How long have you been short men?


My first husband was 5'5" approx. He is super fit and toned. Short and unfit/untoned would not get my attention but short and fit is a great combo IMHO.


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## Mr. Nail

Pardon my thread jack.


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## Alli3fire

I personally find body builders a huge turn off. Also, as I am only 5'2", it does not matter to me a man's height. As long as a man keeps himself clean and dresses nice, I find myself more attracted to personality, intelligence and humor than a man's physique. However, although I like to go for long walks and such, I'm not a big exercise person.


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## Haiku

Faithful Wife said:


> There is very little effort between these two pictures, actually. Maybe a month of gym time?


I feel he's looking at closer to a year. Maybe he could shave a little time off depending on what help he uses. Losing the body fat and adding mass like that requires a strict clean diet and smart routine with supplements. Since he's wealthy he can afford a great diet, good trainers, and the time to devote to it. 

(I never cycled but was accused of it. [No humble brag intended.] I admit to using legally prescribed adderall though.)


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## notmyrealname4

Of course I care about my husband's fitness and body. It's really hard to understand how any woman wouldn't care about it???

I am 5'9", so I would like a guy that is at least 5'9"-1/2. I suppose that's "prejudice", but I feel uncomfortable and less feminine if I'm the taller person. I speak from experience. My husband is well over 6'. I appreciate it every day.

I have found men shorter than me to be good looking and have nice bodies; but I feel too "big" standing next to them. It's not a good feeling.

I think really skinny men are the most beautiful. Concentration camp + 20lbs. The guys with xylophone chests. I don't know why.

My H was very thin when we met. Not so much anymore. I'm still attracted to him. He has beautiful facial features. I feel lesser than him in "beauty".

Lately, my attraction seems to have gone up a lot; but it's mostly been a desire for sex. It's not as bad as it was 2 or 3 years ago though, so that's good.



Regarding bandit45 posting the comparison pics of two different women as an example of what he thought was attractive? I have to say, the very larger gal in the bottom pic is "fair game" as far as I'm concerned. If you are in a public place displaying your body; anyone can take a picture of you. That gives us all something to think about. And this is probably going to get much more widespread.

If she was in her pool in her backyard----that is different, if you are on your own private property, no-one should be taking pictures of you "over the fence" so-to-speak, and uploading them online.


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## Haiku

notmyrealname4 said:


> I think really skinny men are the most beautiful. Concentration camp + 20lbs. The guys with xylophone chests. I don't know why.


Excellent. 

Love the description. Ha ha. Ectomorphs matter!


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## Haiku

EllisRedding said:


> I guess it is a good thing I got married when I did. I was 6ft back in the day but have slowly shrunk down to 5'11" now, so I am in total loser range now


Omg - I just went to the doctor last week to refill my crazy pills. The nurse jammed that height thing down hard on the top of my head and reported I was 1/2 inch shorter than Jan 2015. Then I staggered behind her to the examination room carrying my shoes.


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## Faithful Wife

Haiku said:


> I feel he's looking at closer to a year. Maybe he could shave a little time off depending on what help he uses. Losing the body fat and adding mass like that requires a strict clean diet and smart routine with supplements. Since he's wealthy he can afford a great diet, good trainers, and the time to devote to it.
> 
> (I never cycled but was accused of it. [No humble brag intended.] I admit to using legally prescribed adderall though.)


Please see my previous replies # 16, 17, 20, 24 and 54.

Though I agree that being wealthy and getting paid to get buff for a movie is a huge motivator and can provide an advantage, that doesn't stop millions of regular people who are just fit beythey desire to be, or because they are recreational athletes.

Also, genetics plays a much bigger role than some people realize. Some goals may be impossible to attain for that reason alone, no matter how much effort is put into fitness. I have a ex who had a lovely buff upper body and arms and chest, but also had chicken legs. He had the natural base to build his chest up to an incredible size, bordering on roid size without the roids, but there was nothing he could have ever done to increase his leg size to match his upper body. For that reason he did not try to increase his chest size in an amount that made him look out of balance.


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## heartsbeating

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> :rofl::rofl:
> 
> That's some serious discipline!


Tell me about it!

I mean one of the big cookies... he asked if I wanted some icecream the other night. I asked what flavor it was. It's the same tub he brought home about a month ago. How is that possible?! :surprise:


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## heartsbeating

There was a time where I would have loved my husband to have gone to the gym with me. It frustrated me that he wouldn't! Until I wised up and respected that's not who he is... and recognized that it doesn't stop me from going and he was still supportive and encouraging of me, even though it wasn't his bag. I haven't been in some time. We both appreciate (and perhaps, take for granted) our base level of fitness to work in the yard, walk and/or hike together.

I loved the response from @Curse of Millhaven on another thread... she is very eloquent indeed. While I find tone and muscle (and Wolverine haha) physically attractive, it's not the only state of physical attraction for me. Reasonable balance of habits and approach to health would be important to me and physical appearance may reflect that, which is where the habits and behaviors come in. And yet, it's the vibe of a person that draws me in most of all.


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> Perhaps someone who is naturally LD doesn't necessarily notice more or less of what they are sexually attracted to? Maybe they don't feel that "thump" in their heart (or genitals) when they see someone who they are attracted to?
> 
> I think that is true for asexual people. If we are on a sexual spectrum, it could be sort of true for LD folks, too maybe?


Sorry, missed this before. If someone gets a "thump" up top or down below whenever they are stimulated by someone else, odds are they are not LD in the first place :wink2:


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## jld

Celes said:


> H is 5'8 and I'm 5'2. I think we fit perfectly together :grin2:


That is probably perfect, that he is half a foot taller than you. Mine is almost a foot taller (10 inches), and it is probably too much.


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## jld

Alli3fire said:


> I personally find body builders a huge turn off. Also, as I am only 5'2", it does not matter to me a man's height. As long as a man keeps himself clean and dresses nice, I find myself more attracted to personality, intelligence and humor than a man's physique. However, although I like to go for long walks and such, I'm not a big exercise person.


This is me, too. I actually get annoyed sometimes at how much time my husband devotes to cycling. It can be kind of selfish.

And I finally saw "The Rock" yesterday. I had heard about him here. Personally, I do not see the appeal, at least from the physical aspect. The article I skimmed through said he is a very nice person, though, so there is that. And that is the most important thing, imo.


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## Rowan

I tend to find tall, somewhat stocky, men attractive - all the men in my family are built that way, so it's what I tend to associate most with "manly". That said, I've only dated one man who was over 6' tall, and at 6'4" I found his height very attractive, but his weight was beginning to get away from him. I found his lack of healthy behaviors a bit of a problem and can imagine that if we'd stayed together I might have eventually found myself becoming less attracted to him because of his increasing weight. I don't want a gym rat or a crossfitter, or someone who's so into his body that he won't have fun indulging in great food from time to time. But being unwilling to take care of yourself enough to at least give yourself a chance for a long and healthy life isn't attractive either.

That said, both my ex-husband and my current SO were under 6' (a little under 5'10" and right at 5'11", respectively) but both solidly built. Not a thin runners build, but not muscle-bound either. Average body, I would say. Strong, cuddly, with a little extra weight, but not obese. My SO has a heart condition, so I worry about his body from the standpoint of wanting him to stay healthy enough to be around with me for as long as he can. But we are both foodies and love to cook and to eat. We both enjoy food and dislike the gym and I find that compatibility attractive, even if neither of us are ever going to have very trim physiques. Happily, he seems to feel the same about my size 10-12 self. I don't think either one of us would find it attractive if the other became obese, however.


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