# Significant other's relationship with co-workers



## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Happy Thanksgiving Day everyone!

It's no secret that the workplace tends to be a hotbed of adultery. I think, one of the things that always catches people by surprise is seeing your SO's intense and deep emotional connections, most often unbeknown to us, in the form of affectionate body language, tongue-in-cheek behaviors and even lunch/coffee/dinner dates that are, again, most often kept from the SO, *for obvious reasons*.

I remember the first time I saw this in full display with my XW: we went to a wedding where two teachers were getting married (they ended up cheating on each other and divorcing-LOL). 95% of all invitees were school personnel, which I found odd but it is what it is. To say it was an odd day for me is an understatement: When we first walked into the hall, my XW started introducing me to people, which I was fine about but... eventually I saw her jumping from group to group of invitees, exchanging hugs and kisses with women and men I had never met. As the evening progressed, I started noticing my XW was really trying hard to ignore me (I did not know anyone there, she knew everyone,) going as far as dancing slow tunes with other dudes, only to come back to our table and say something really f-cked up to me like "you're getting drunk." One of the dudes she was dancing with... let's just say there were too many eye exchanges and one slap in the butt too many for me to feel like her relationships with the people at work were merely superficial, *which was the story she was selling me all along by the way*. It got so bad that I got drunk and turned my body toward the band and my back to everyone else at the table. At one point, my XW sensed what was happening and we decided to leave. To say that we fought in the car is an understatement.

To make a long story short, what happened that night got printed in my reptilian brain. It wasn't the type of experience that you go through and flush out within days. No, I STILL remember it vividly. Too many (f-cked up) things happened that night that I wasn't aware of... kind of like when I found out Santa was really my parents... like a loss of innocence type of thing. What I learned from that night was that 1) my XW was making insanely deep emotional connections with coworkers (male, female, married, single, young and old), 2) that she was keeping how deep these relationships were a secret, 3) that she was intentionally creating really intimate moments/situations with some of these co workers (again, keeping them secret) and that 4) at one point or another, her emotional and romantic b-base slowly pivoted from the marriage to the school ecosystem. The way this change manifested itself was in the way she behaved: she would ALWAYS try to make up from any fights right before she was about to leave for work and then, as soon as she came home, she would unleash hell because of the smallest things imaginable.

What is your experience?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Hi Bo,

For the record my wife is a second grade teacher and we have been to a wedding much like you described. My wife does indeed have nice relationships with some of her coworkers. I however do not view any of them as threatening in any way, perhaps because the only male teacher in her grade is a cross dresser !!!!! It sounds to me that something was probably going on at home that wasn’t happy marriage material and your wife was getting her emotional cup filled elsewhere. I’m not giving your wife a pass on her bad behavior though.

The dance with another guy: Here is where you and I are extremely different people. I wouldn’t have let that continue for more than a couple seconds but honestly my wife wouldn’t be brave enough to try and pull that kind of BS on me. I would have walked straight up and let him know I was going to break his fingers if he ever got within 5 feet of my wife again. That’s for him disrespecting me with my wife. Secondly my wife would be packing her chit and GTFO as soon as we got home. Your wife gave you the ultimate chit test and you failed miserably but honestly who cares because who in the hell needs a wife like that ? At our event my wife stayed by my side and also had me entertain and take care of her single friend…. that’s how that situation is supposed to look.

Respect: If a relationship doesn’t have it then nothing else matters…..it’s doomed for divorce or a life of misery and chit sandwiches which reminds me the sandwiches at our wedding were pretty good, so were the drinks, and lucky enough my wife’s friend was pretty cute!

Your bitterness bleeds over into all of your post here at TAM. If I were you maybe I would feel the same way but I’d hope that I wouldn’t. You should trying to find whatever makes you feel better as soon as possible because you don’t want to turn into one of those woman hater types. I bet there are still some positive things in your life…. don’t forget about those.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> Hi Bo,
> 
> For the record my wife is a second grade teacher and we have been to a wedding much like you described. My wife does indeed have nice relationships with some of her coworkers. I however do not view any of them as threatening in any way, perhaps because the only male teacher in her grade is a cross dresser !!!!! It sounds to me that something was probably going on at home that wasn’t happy marriage material and your wife was getting her emotional cup filled elsewhere. I’m not giving your wife a pass on her bad behavior though.
> 
> ...


My wife is a hugger. Very much a social butterfly. Hugs practically everyone she meets for more than 5 minutes (except some either she or I get a creeper vibe from).

But one wrong look, one hug just a little too long, one pat on the butt, or hands in wrong place and hell will break loose.

Slow dance with another man? Not a chance.

Her actions and my responses are what we've established as boundaries. Hard boundaries. She respects mine and I respect hers.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Hi Bo,
> 
> For the record my wife is a second grade teacher and we have been to a wedding much like you described. My wife does indeed have nice relationships with some of her coworkers. I however do not view any of them as threatening in any way, perhaps because the only male teacher in her grade is a cross dresser !!!!! It sounds to me that something was probably going on at home that wasn’t happy marriage material and your wife was getting her emotional cup filled elsewhere. I’m not giving your wife a pass on her bad behavior though.
> 
> ...



Do you have anything to add on *YOUR* significant other’s relationships with her coworkers or did you just want to air your grievances toward me all the while trying to look and sound as hard and alpha as Chuck Norris' c-ck? If the later is the case, you could’ve just sent me a private message and hit the ignore button.

I really don't know where you get the *perception* that I dislike women or that I'm becoming bitter toward women just because I criticize one, my XW, though... Let me be very clear, I dislike cheating filth, in all its forms. Not women.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> My wife is a hugger. Very much a social butterfly. Hugs practically everyone she meets for more than 5 minutes (except some either she or I get a creeper vibe from).
> 
> But one wrong look, one hug just a little too long, one pat on the butt, or hands in wrong place and hell will break loose.
> 
> ...


The initial post is not about what you think of how I acted in my case, I'm talking about *YOUR* experience of the relationship between *YOUR* wife/husband and her/his co-workers. 

Needless to say, the way I acted during the wedding had more to do wanting to know the full extent of her relationship with her co-workers than anything else. I knew from the beginning that something was amiss and me going alpha on her from the beginning, at the time, would've driven her even more underground, so keeping my mouth shut and ears open was my modus operandi *THAT DAY* (not every day). 

Again, I'm not looking for your opinion on the way I acted that day, I'm looking for your personal experience. The more situations we're able to describe to people the faster they will be able to understand what is going on in their marriage. I, for one, learned a lot from this forum and many of you during those fateful two weeks at the beginning of August. I learned in 2 weeks to 1) understand that it wasn't my fault, 2) that she was most likely cheating and 3) to pick myself up and move on. THIS is my point of reference. I hope this is the last time I have to say it because this "woman-hater" BS really takes away from the desperate people that come here for information.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Bo,

My wife works at an elementary school and has for 25 years. There is only one male there. However, I have seen some of what you describe. In particular, becoming very close with co-workers and being way too emotionally involved in each other's lives.

I work as a network engineer, where there is about a 50/50 of men and women at my office. On a daily basis, I work with other engineers, who are all male. I am friends with the guys I work with, but we do not hang together outside of work and are definitely not emotionally engaged.

I had to have a talk with my wife, who started coming home and telling me about her work day. My work day talk with her would be.... I set up X VM servers and put in a firewall, etc. Her talk would be.... Jan and Betty are being *****y, Mary is having problems XYZ with her husband, Emily is having an affair with her neighbor Bob.

I pointed out to her that I thought it was bizarre to get this invested in other people's lives. I got a bit angry and told her I am not interested in real life soap operas. I think, and this is just my opinion, women in general just love drama....be it on TV, in real life or in books.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> My wife is a hugger. Very much a social butterfly. Hugs practically everyone she meets for more than 5 minutes (except some either she or I get a creeper vibe from).
> 
> But one wrong look, one hug just a little too long, one pat on the butt, or hands in wrong place and hell will break loose.
> 
> ...


Too exhausting for me. I have decent capabilities in Street fighting. Just not willing to utilize them to police a spouse engaged in voluntary disrespect.
As you said, who needs a wife like that.
As to the original post, it was very common for my XW to start fights over nothing. Also, once she started cheating, our kids and me were relegated to very low priority. I just got the hell out.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

BoSlander said:


> Do you have anything to add on *YOUR* significant other’s relationships with her coworkers or did you just want to air your grievances toward me all the while trying to look and sound as hard and alpha as Chuck Norris' c-ck? If the later is the case, you could’ve just sent me a private message and hit the ignore button.
> 
> I really don't know where you get the *perception* that I dislike women or that I'm becoming bitter toward women just because I criticize one, my XW, though... Let me be very clear, I dislike cheating filth, in all its forms. Not women.


Yes I did indicate that the relationship of MY wife with some of her coworkers is very close in my post. The difference between them is you are viewing them as a negative based on how your wife unfairly treated you and I believe the situation at work with my wife is a good thing. I mentioned the marriage life at home because that is likely the catalyst for what is happening with your wife at work unless she is just basically a piece of cheating trash which is also possible.

Understandable about cheating filth but what I said is “don’t want to turn into”


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> The initial post is not about what you think of how I acted in my case, I'm talking about *YOUR* experience of the relationship between *YOUR* wife/husband and her/his co-workers.
> 
> Needless to say, the way I acted during the wedding had more to do wanting to know the full extent of her relationship with her co-workers than anything else. I knew from the beginning that something was amiss and me going alpha on her from the beginning, at the time, would've driven her even more underground, so keeping my mouth shut and ears open was my modus operandi *THAT DAY* (not every day).
> 
> Again, I'm not looking for your opinion on the way I acted that day, I'm looking for your personal experience. The more situations we're able to describe to people the faster they will be able to understand what is going on in their marriage. I, for one, learned a lot from this forum and many of you during those fateful two weeks at the beginning of August. I learned in 2 weeks to 1) understand that it wasn't my fault, 2) that she was most likely cheating and 3) to pick myself up and move on. THIS is my point of reference. I hope this is the last time I have to say it because this "woman-hater" BS really takes away from the desperate people that come here for information.


Gotta agree with you. It would have ben foolish to tip your hand. And, without proof, you would have been cast as some jealous ahole.
Never understood the philosophy of fighting other guys over someone who is supposed to be committed to you. Smacks of insecurity and just feeds a cheater's already inflated ego. 
As to whether the marriage was in some way lacking, as alleged - Duh. You were married to a person of low integrity, low, if any, empathy, and a host of character defects ( especially selfishness). Ya think someone like that was a decent marriage partner? Of course she was the cause of anything lacking and these bottomless pits of " needs " can never be satisfied.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> Yes I did indicate that the relationship of MY wife with some of her coworkers is very close in my post. The difference between them is you are viewing them as a negative based on how your wife unfairly treated you and I believe the situation at work with my wife is a good thing. I mentioned the marriage life at home because that is likely the catalyst for what is happening with your wife at work unless she is just basically a piece of cheating trash which is also possible.
> 
> Understandable about cheating filth but what I said is “don’t want to turn into”


I believe his wife cheated. By definition, she is a " piece of cheating trash". If she had dissatisfaction in the marriage, there were myriad honorable options to address this.
Many people go through difficult times in their marriages, experience dissatisfaction. Takes a special,kind of ahole to cheat. 
As I mentioned, a person equipped with the types of character defects needed for cheating, is, almost invariably, causing a host of pre- cheating problems in many areas. These folks do not confine their lack of integrity, empathy, communication skill, lack of commitment to just the sexual fidelity realm. If you look at other areas of their lives, the crap they have pulled is, often, amazing.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

This whole dissatisfaction with the marriage rationale justifying cheating is very entrenched. It reminds me of how some folks acted when my son was born with Down Syndrome. Because they were afraid that something random like this could happen to them, some people had to convince themselves that something other than randomness caused it. They felt that as long as there was some explanation that included some deficiency on the parents part, they were safe, as they were not deficient. 
The need to explain cheating in a similar manner strikes me as pretty much the same thing. It makes people feel safe.
Sometimes you can be a good( not perfect) spouse and your partner still cheats. Sometimes you just did not pick up on the character flaws in your spouse until,after marriage ( and disordered folks are quite adept at wearing a mask)
IMO, if you are in a marriage where your spouse has to feel that you would physically assault someone she hits on to deter her, that is sad


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> Again, I'm not looking for your opinion on the way I acted that day, I'm looking for your personal experience. The more situations we're able to describe to people the faster they will be able to understand what is going on in their marriage.


And I never gave my opinion about your actions.

My opinion for other readers of TAM... don't let things get so bad in your relationship. Have good boundaries and consequences, while also not being demanding or controlling for no reason. When boundaries are broken, act on them.

You can wait it out to see how things turn out, but if she or he is disrespecting boundaries then we all know where it will end up. Many posters here on TAM will tell what will happen you if you don't know.


My experience with my current wife are great.

But when I was a man-child with a crappy understanding for relationships and girls that should NOT become wives... then my story was much different.

Flexible boundaries, she danced with others, I got drunk while she partied with my buddies, etc. All the usual crap similar to your story Bo.
I also waited and watched... I won't ever do that again.

She was for the streets and eventually after rugsweeping and some false R's, that's where she went.

TAM didn't exist in those days so I had only my wits to help me...which were crap as I said.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> And I never gave my opinion about your actions.
> 
> My opinion for other readers of TAM... don't let things get so bad in your relationship. Have good boundaries and consequences, while also not being demanding or controlling for no reason. When boundaries are broken, act on them.
> 
> ...


Just my opinion, but the abiding by boundaries etc has to be entirely volitional and not contingent on wanting to avoid consequences. Otherwise, what do you really have in terms of loyalty and devotion? What types of behaviors will this person engage in when there is little to no chance of detection. 
This is why if one really wants to know the true nature of a partner's loyalty, interceding early on is not helpful. All you have established is that your partner will refrain when consequences are forthcoming, not out of devotion to you.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Just my opinion, but the abiding by boundaries etc has to be entirely volitional and not contingent on wanting to avoid consequences. Otherwise, what do you really have in terms of loyalty and devotion? What types of behaviors will this person engage in when there is little to no chance of detection.
> This is why if one really wants to know the true nature of a partner's loyalty, interceding early on is not helpful. All you have established is that your partner will refrain when consequences are forthcoming, not out of devotion to you.


100% agree. If you have to enforce the boundaries or keep reminding them..then it's not working.
My wife has boundaries and if I have to *think* or keep reminding myself about not violating ... them then there's a problem.

But once the boundary is crossed by me (in this example) she would be foolish to wait around and see what happens next. In my eyes, the boundary is more of a 'suggestion' and doesn't really mean anything serious.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> 100% agree. If you have to enforce the boundaries or keep reminding them..then it's not working.
> My wife has boundaries and if I have to *think* or keep reminding myself about not violating ... them then there's a problem.
> 
> But once the boundary is crossed by me (in this example) she would be foolish to wait around and see what happens next. In my eyes, the boundary is more of a 'suggestion' and doesn't really mean anything serious.


I think it depends on the boundary and the extent to which it is crossed. If my wife , for example, kissed some dude, I would not bother to intercede. It is just too clear of an indication that I could never trust her again. 
I am trying to think of a more innocuous violation, like maybe being late and keeping me waiting while she conversed with an old boyfriend. I doubt I would jettison her for that and would inform her that Imwoild tolerate no further occurrences. 
As far as ever physically harming someone for threatening to break someone's fingers because my wife willingly slow danced with him, no, I would never do that. It demonstrates one's acknowledgement that the wife's loyalty is dependent on my willingness to hurt someone and my capabilities in that regard. What if the guy could obviously kick my ass? Have I gained anything other than an embarrassing ass whipping and physical injury. Same if I win. What prize have I won, a wife who needs to be guarded to remain loyal? No, thanks.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> 100% agree. If you have to enforce the boundaries or keep reminding them..then it's not working.
> My wife has boundaries and if I have to *think* or keep reminding myself about not violating ... them then there's a problem.
> 
> But once the boundary is crossed by me (in this example) she would be foolish to wait around and see what happens next. In my eyes, the boundary is more of a 'suggestion' and doesn't really mean anything serious.


For me, I have established my personal boundaries for work and in social organizations that I belong to. These are to (1) Prioritize my marriage as my most important relationship (2) Not become involved in other people's personal relationships and (3) Avoid even the perception or temptation when dealing with women.

I have been accused of being old fashioned and misogynist, but I really do not care what others think. When you are in close proximity for hours every day at work, the reality is that boundaries become easy to cross, unless you are conscious to keep perspective. I have a couple of women from work that are friends, but I make a conscious effort to not speak privately or be alone with them. Outside of work, we only interact as couples with our spouses, like bowling, mini-golf or BBQs. Likewise, the two women at work that are friends are married, I am friends with their husband's and my wife is a friend to them too. More importantly, we share the same moral beliefs. For us, we don't drink, go clubbing and are family focused. Our interactions outside of work is few and far between. This is usually 4th of July, Christmas, etc.

I have read the book, "Not Just Friends" and there is a lot of truth in it. I have always had the "White Knight" aspect to me, and have had to learn when it is appropriate to help someone and when not to.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> if you are in a marriage where your spouse has to feel that you would physically assault someone she hits on to deter her, that is sad


You have completely missed the point. The firmness with the other man has nothing to do with wife deterring. It has everything to do with a man grabbing my wife’s ass right in front of me. Based on what the OP said the wife would already be pretty much scratched off my list already. I’m not a violent dude but that interaction needed t be handled up front.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

BoSlander said:


> Happy Thanksgiving Day everyone!
> 
> It's no secret that the workplace tends to be a hotbed of adultery. I think, one of the things that always catches people by surprise is seeing your SO's intense and deep emotional connections, most often unbeknown to us, in the form of affectionate body language, tongue-in-cheek behaviors and even lunch/coffee/dinner dates that are, again, most often kept from the SO, *for obvious reasons*.
> 
> ...


I think affairs have a progression and most of them start as an emotional affair. It’s also what makes the illicit relationship so strong and enduring and I believe causes the cheater to absolutely lose their mind in the high when the physical boundaries get crossed. It’s the one two punch of love drunk and physical connection. Murders marriages every single day. 

Sharing intimacy and hiding it is simply the first of many steps in an affair. And you are correct, the workplace is a huge one. The gym. And anywhere where people are in close and repetitive contact. 

I do think many people do not intend on having an affair from the get go. They may find themselves sliding into it with each crossed boundary they take. But this is also the hunting ground of many people who DO intend on having affairs and there are many.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

The single situation was with me rather than my wife.

I don't usually get involved with co workers' personal lives and just relate on a friend to friend basis. Probably good that I still haven't gotten over my inhibitions against flirting or initiating.

However, at about the 7 year mark in our marriage I was not feeling loved and commiserated with a female co worker in that she was going through the same thing. Her husband had diabetes, was always in pain, stayed up late while she slept alone.

We worked in support of the prototype XEROX workstations, networks, servers and engineers' b***erdized versions of the same, spending much time together in the server room maintaining gear and had plenty of time to talk. Then our employer flew us both up to the Palo Alto Research Center for training on a prototype fiber Ethernet for a few days.

I had the sense of sexual tension between us, but I had no intention of acting on it. Then something happened where most men would step in and initiate. I did not and she said, "Thank you," which I took to mean she probably felt the sexual tension as well and was glad neither of us had taken it anywhere.

After knowing what it is like to be nerdy wallflower in my virgin days, I now do circulate at parties or gatherings, making sure everyone has a chance to be part of the activity, trying to make them feel valued and comfortable with joining in. NO touching, though.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> You have completely missed the point. The firmness with the other man has nothing to do with wife deterring. It has everything to do with a man grabbing my wife’s ass right in front of me. Based on what the OP said the wife would already be pretty much scratched off my list already. I’m not a violent dude but that interaction needed t be handled up front.


Exactly. Any man stupid enough to knowingly trespass my territory is going to have a very unpleasant experience regardless of how my wife was behaving.

Dealing with the wife is a separate issue.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> You have completely missed the point. The firmness with the other man has nothing to do with wife deterring. It has everything to do with a man grabbing my wife’s ass right in front of me. Based on what the OP said the wife would already be pretty much scratched off my list already. I’m not a violent dude but that interaction needed t be handled up front.


 Exactly.
The dude gets "his fingers broken" for disrespecting me.
Same way as if an AP knew the cheater was married. It's a separate affront from your wife/husband being a lush or a *****.
If it's a full-tilt double betrayal (like best friend) then that is even more aggregious.
I see people say constantly "they didn't marry you" in reference to an AP, nope they didn't but they sure disrespected me. It does not have to be one or the other (AP or wife), It can be both that deserve consequences.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> I think affairs have a progression and most of them start as an emotional affair. It’s also what makes the illicit relationship so strong and enduring and I believe causes the cheater to absolutely lose their mind in the high when the physical boundaries get crossed. It’s the one two punch of love drunk and physical connection. Murders marriages every single day.
> 
> Sharing intimacy and hiding it is simply the first of many steps in an affair. And you are correct, the workplace is a huge one. The gym. And anywhere where people are in close and repetitive contact.
> 
> I do think many people do not intend on having an affair from the get go. They may find themselves sliding into it with each crossed boundary they take. But this is also the hunting ground of many people who DO intend on having affairs and there are many.


^^^^Wise Man^^^^


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

BootsAndJeans said:


> ^^^^Wise Man^^^^


Lady 😉


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

If some guy slapped my ass, my husband would knock him the eff out. Well, he'd want to but I wouldn't let him do it.

But also I wouldn't be dancing with any man besides my husband to begin with.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> Lady 😉


And a very smart lady at that!🙂


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> You have completely missed the point. The firmness with the other man has nothing to do with wife deterring. It has everything to do with a man grabbing my wife’s ass right in front of me. Based on what the OP said the wife would already be pretty much scratched off my list already. I’m not a violent dude but that interaction needed t be handled up front.


Sorry, did I miss the part about the guy grabbing your wife's ass? If this was merely dancing, and your wife consented, that is completely different than someone grabbing the wife' s ass. Did you embellish this or did I miss it?
I will reread.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Sorry, did I miss the part about the guy grabbing your wife's ass? If this was merely dancing, and your wife consented, that is completely different than someone grabbing the wife' s ass. Did you embellish this or did I miss it?
> I will reread.


Yeah, I overlooked the butt slapping. I can see that pissing someone off.
Just me, but I would still not risk criminal charges if my soon to be XW was allowing this. Just would not want to reward her with V tingles from two men fighting over her. Cheater's egos are inflated enough.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Exactly.
> The dude gets "his fingers broken" for disrespecting me.
> Same way as if an AP knew the cheater was married. It's a separate affront from your wife/husband being a lush or a ***.
> If it's a full-tilt double betrayal (like best friend) then that is even more aggregious.
> I see people say constantly "they didn't marry you" in reference to an AP, nope they didn't but they sure disrespected me. It does not have to be one or the other (AP or wife), It can be both that deserve consequences.


Disrespect, absent some physical threat, means nothing to me. So, I would not bother unless it was non- consensual. Nothing would please my cheating wife more than having two physically fighting over her. You win, you have won nothing of value and risked being arrested. You lose and you risk injury and further humiliation. 
This in no way means that I do not feel the OM is a reprobate who has no morals. The " they did not marry you" rationale is so without analysis or merit it is not worth debating. If someone buys it, he or she is too dumb to debate, anyway.
If one is inclined to intercede, physically, I would advise making sure the OM was not misled and was fully informed about the marital status or the couples philosophy on the expectations within the marriage. 
Cheaters' lying is, often, not confined to just lying to the spouse. I have seen a few stories where an affair partner was unaware he or she was infringing.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

so_sweet said:


> If some guy slapped my ass, my husband would knock him the eff out. Well, he'd want to but I wouldn't let him do it.
> 
> But also I wouldn't be dancing with any man besides my husband to begin with.


Exactly. This woman was into it, apparently. Completely different than an unexpected slap from some one you consented to dance with.


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## GoldenR (Jan 6, 2019)

My XWW's A was with a co-worker that pursued her for a good while, getting an EA established that eventually went PA. 

When I figured out what was going on, there was no fighting or Hell breaking loose. I knew she was at his place, so I packed EVERYTHING that was considered hers aside from big furniture/appliances and put it on his doorstep between the hours of 1130pm and 4am. It took over 40 large yard bags to fit it all. 

And surprisingly, that was that. She stayed with him. Never attempted to come home. Never attempted to get custody. 

And she's been miserable ever since. 

As far as the work dynamic, I was only around them together one time, at his house for a work pool party. Didn't notice anything weird between them. But I did later find out that when she was inside with him helping with the cooking, and i was in the pool with our girls, when she waved at us from the window above the sink that faced the pool, he was ****ing her from behind at that exact moment. So there's that...


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

GoldenR said:


> My XWW's A was with a co-worker that pursued her for a good while, getting an EA established that eventually went PA.
> 
> When I figured out what was going on, there was no fighting or Hell breaking loose. I knew she was at his place, so I packed EVERYTHING that was considered hers aside from big furniture/appliances and put it on his doorstep between the hours of 1130pm and 4am. It took over 40 large yard bags to fit it all.
> 
> ...


You are my new hero


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

GoldenR said:


> My XWW's A was with a co-worker that pursued her for a good while, getting an EA established that eventually went PA.
> 
> When I figured out what was going on, there was no fighting or Hell breaking loose. I knew she was at his place, so I packed EVERYTHING that was considered hers aside from big furniture/appliances and put it on his doorstep between the hours of 1130pm and 4am. It took over 40 large yard bags to fit it all.
> 
> ...


IMO, this is how one keeps one's dignity. No threats of violence or screaming etc. These folks are just not worth it.
I am almost certain I had the capability of thrashing my XW' s main affair partner. Instead, when I met him, I thanked him for relieving me of a terrible burden. I did make it clear he would be safer if he remained away from my kids.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BoSlander said:


> Happy Thanksgiving Day everyone!
> 
> It's no secret that the workplace tends to be a hotbed of adultery. I think, one of the things that always catches people by surprise is seeing your SO's intense and deep emotional connections, most often unbeknown to us, in the form of affectionate body language, tongue-in-cheek behaviors and even lunch/coffee/dinner dates that are, again, most often kept from the SO, *for obvious reasons*.
> 
> ...


I see someone slapping my wife's butt at some wedding and my fist is slapping his face. If she protested we would probably be divorcing. Being cheated on once has made me ruthless about boundaries. Life is too short to put up with ********.

Now I would probably let some guy dance with her for part of the song before I cut in. I would just use it as a way to prove my dominance.

And I am no way a bad ass, just someone with more conviction. No one causes me pain without feeling their own.


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## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

I wouldn't have to punch the guy. My wife would and she packs a wallop. Seen her elbow a guy in the short ribs when he got to close, lol!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Bo,
> 
> My wife works at an elementary school and has for 25 years. There is only one male there. However, I have seen some of what you describe. In particular, becoming very close with co-workers and being way too emotionally involved in each other's lives.
> 
> ...


A lot of women like emotional connections and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of women are interested in other people they know just as friends. I just find it very peculiar when someone thinks you shouldn't have any friends. I don't think that's healthy. Just because you're that way doesn't mean someone else should be that way. It's fine for you but it probably wouldn't be fine for her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

After I read that and wrote it I started thinking about it and literally all of my friends that I still have that I've had for 40 years, I met at work. It may have been especially true for me because my work was also my niche. We all liked our work and had that in common.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> IMO, this is how one keeps one's dignity. No threats of violence or screaming etc. These folks are just not worth it.
> I am almost certain I had the capability of thrashing my XW' s main affair partner. Instead, when I met him, I thanked him for relieving me of a terrible burden. I did make it clear he would be safer if he remained away from my kids.


LoL! I would be relieving the idiot of any illusion of dignity.

I walk the talk and have never been jailed. I guess knowing your limits is good.

I do like your style though. Children are those needing the most protection. You're aces for that alone.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A lot of women like emotional connections and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of women are interested in other people they know just as friends. I just find it very peculiar when someone thinks you shouldn't have any friends. I don't think that's healthy. Just because you're that way doesn't mean someone else should be that way. It's fine for you but it probably wouldn't be fine for her.


I said become too invested in friends/co-workers lives. I have no issue with her having friends. However the old saying "not my circus, not my monkeys" applies.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

your partners already know you, moreover, if I remember correctly, she had studied psychology, she knows how to bend people's ideas, she must have used you in her experiments for a long time.

the part that surprised me was you saw these and got drunk?

You proved to everyone that you are a weak idiot (I meant it means they said it), I think from that day on you were the laughing stock of your wife's friends and everyone understood why your wife cheated on you so easily!

It's their choice to cheat, but it's your choice to make yourself ridiculous after realizing it. instead of getting drunk you should have returned home, it would be a good choice to start leaving that evening.

however, as I said at the beginning, your partner knows you better than us and knew how to control your reactions.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> LoL! I would be relieving the idiot of any illusion of dignity.
> 
> I walk the talk and have never been jailed. I guess knowing your limits is good.
> 
> I do like your style though. Children are those needing the most protection. You're aces for that alone.


Once I reached adulthood, with decent strength etc., I learned that physically fighting was nothing like it was as a kid. People do not stop when you cry uncle. It continues until someone gets very badly injured sometimes. People get stomped when they are laying helpless etc. Weapons are often involved. Careers get ruined if you are charged. I am not talking about defending yourself or a loved one or someone else being harmed.
Getting repeatedly punched in the face , kicked etc. is nothing like as portrayed on TV or movies. It does way more damage than portrayed. 
I just would not engage over an insult or disrespect. People wind up seriously hurt. Last time I did this, decades ago, I wound up with a fractured orbit and zygoma. Fighting, as an adult is extremely dangerous. Just too much strength and anger involved.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

bygone said:


> your partners already know you, moreover, if I remember correctly, she had studied psychology, she knows how to bend people's ideas, she must have used you in her experiments for a long time.
> 
> the part that surprised me was you saw these and got drunk?
> 
> ...


Again.. I don't know why my commentary and response to the situation became the center of attention but... whatever... Look, since you took my comment out of context, allow me to re-center it for you: At the time of the wedding, my XW was acting up. I knew something was up but could not find anything because my XW was a master, and I mean a CIA spy-grade secrecy MASTER, at hiding things. 

My hunt started at work because, at the time, I felt that that was the most likely place where something "weird" may be going on (I did not suspect adultery at the time). And I say "weird" because my wife was very involved in her co-workers lives up to about 10-11 years into our marriage, at which point she basically went mute. SO, the wedding represented a good opportunity for me to gather "intelligence" and I decided to go. I knew I was going to most likely see some f-ed up sh-t so I mentally prepared myself for the worst. So, I get to the wedding and I immediately see that my XW knows everyone. I see her jumping from group to group of people, having conversations and being very touchy-feely for my taste. Then, as the night progressed, she began to completely ignore me. And that's when I started to see the cheater behavior that I eventually stumbled upon. I mean, it took me YEARS to figure out how she was doing all of this (it was my mistake, I should've hired a PI) so I wanted to pick up as much behavior as possible without letting her know or see that I was observing her. OF COURSE, under normal circumstances she would not be dancing with another man and the men that slapped her in the but would have the white knocked out of their teeth, but I wasn't there that night to go full on MMA on anyone. I was there to see how my XW behaved when around her co workers. 

Understood?


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A lot of women like emotional connections and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of women are interested in other people they know just as friends. I just find it very peculiar when someone thinks you shouldn't have any friends. I don't think that's healthy. Just because you're that way doesn't mean someone else should be that way. It's fine for you but it probably wouldn't be fine for her.


I never said she shouldn't have any friends. What I am saying is that she had an emotional network set up at work and *purposely kept it from me* because she knew she wanted to get with some of the people there and that I would either get upset at her not tell me what her intentions were or I would get inquisitive (understandably) at who she was having those connections with.

This has NOTHING to do with healthy interpersonal relations.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Bo,
> 
> My wife works at an elementary school and has for 25 years. There is only one male there. However, I have seen some of what you describe. In particular, becoming very close with co-workers and being way too emotionally involved in each other's lives.
> 
> ...


I think this is why there's so much adultery in the workplace, because emotional connections are being made where there ought be none. My company is exactly like yours, we have zero investment in each other's personal life and are happy to have it that way. We even have classes that we need to take on an annual basis where we're explicitly told not to over engage on the personal stuff.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Megaforce said:


> This whole dissatisfaction with the marriage rationale justifying cheating is very entrenched. It reminds me of how some folks acted when my son was born with Down Syndrome. Because they were afraid that something random like this could happen to them, some people had to convince themselves that something other than randomness caused it. They felt that as long as there was some explanation that included some deficiency on the parents part, they were safe, as they were not deficient.
> The need to explain cheating in a similar manner strikes me as pretty much the same thing. It makes people feel safe.
> Sometimes you can be a good( not perfect) spouse and your partner still cheats. Sometimes you just did not pick up on the character flaws in your spouse until,after marriage ( and disordered folks are quite adept at wearing a mask)
> IMO, if you are in a marriage where your spouse has to feel that you would physically assault someone she hits on to deter her, that is sad


Exactly, my wife wants to flirt with other dudes, it will be her hitting the streets. Guy should not tolerate that kind of disrespect, she can get the hell out.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BoSlander said:


> I think this is why there's so much adultery in the workplace, because emotional connections are being made where there ought be none. My company is exactly like yours, we have zero investment in each other's personal life and are happy to have it that way. We even have classes that we need to take on an annual basis where we're explicitly told not to over engage on the personal stuff.


It blows my mind when you have co-workers that take vacations together. Ones I know, ends up in alternate spouses having affair. I spend 10+ hrs a day with co-workers, no I do not want to go lay on a beach with them on my free time. Or my wife and I climb into a hot tub with co-worker and her hubby. Hell to the NO!


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Exactly.
> The dude gets "his fingers broken" for disrespecting me.
> Same way as if an AP knew the cheater was married. It's a separate affront from your wife/husband being a lush or a ***.
> If it's a full-tilt double betrayal (like best friend) then that is even more aggregious.
> I see people say constantly "they didn't marry you" in reference to an AP, nope they didn't but they sure disrespected me. It does not have to be one or the other (AP or wife), It can be both that deserve consequences.


FINALLY someone on the same page with me!


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I said become too invested in friends/co-workers lives. I have no issue with her having friends. However the old saying "not my circus, not my monkeys" applies.


But it is her circus and her monkeys if she's friends with them. There's nothing wrong with becoming invested in other people's lives.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BoSlander said:


> I never said she shouldn't have any friends. What I am saying is that she had an emotional network set up at work and *purposely kept it from me* because she knew she wanted to get with some of the people there and that I would either get upset at her not tell me what her intentions were or I would get inquisitive (understandably) at who she was having those connections with.
> 
> This has NOTHING to do with healthy interpersonal relations.


Because she knows you. But there's nothing wrong with her having a friend Network at work just because you don't like it. You are the outlier here. Having friends at work is pretty normal.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> Once I reached adulthood, with decent strength etc., I learned that physically fighting was nothing like it was as a kid. People do not stop when you cry uncle. It continues until someone gets very badly injured sometimes. People get stomped when they are laying helpless etc. Weapons are often involved. Careers get ruined if you are charged. I am not talking about defending yourself or a loved one or someone else being harmed.
> Getting repeatedly punched in the face , kicked etc. is nothing like as portrayed on TV or movies. It does way more damage than portrayed.
> I just would not engage over an insult or disrespect. People wind up seriously hurt. Last time I did this, decades ago, I wound up with a fractured orbit and zygoma. Fighting, as an adult is extremely dangerous. Just too much strength and anger involved.


I respect your position and I think you have good advice.

My way isn't the only, or even the best, one.

It is the best and only way for how this barbarian lives however.

For what it's worth, I've ended all fights almost before they started with minimal damage to my antagonist and I've never been hurt.

Get me on ice skates though and I will nearly kill myself!😋


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But it is her circus and her monkeys if she's friends with them. There's nothing wrong with becoming invested in other people's lives.


I think there is a bit of grey here, it is not just black & white. I disagree with you in the following context. When a person becomes invested in the lives of people who are just friends, to the degree that those issues cause an emotional response that impacts that person's spouse in the marital relationship, then the friendship needs to be dialed back. 

Here is my perspective....my circus is MY family. My monkeys are members of MY family. While I or she can and do have friends, we should not get involved in their love lives or other emotional storms. We have financially helped friends, we have provided a safe space for one her friends before. 

I guess I am different than most people. My wife has been my best friend for 40 years. I really have no need for a lot of other close friends. I have one buddy that we have been friends for 47 years.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I respect your position and I think you have good advice.
> 
> My way isn't the only, or even the best, one.
> 
> ...


One rule to abide by: do not engage with guys who have cauliflower ears( unless you have them as well). You get taken to the ground and it is over.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> FINALLY someone on the same page with me!


If this becomes a habit, decent odds you run into the wrong person sooner or later. One of my best friends never lost a wrestling match his entire high school career. I think he had an extra Y chromosome or something. 
Some guy back from Marine training started up with him. Yeah a few months of basic vs 12 plus years of wrestling. It was not pretty. Guy went through a plate glass window. If he had only known to look for cauliflower ears.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> If this becomes a habit, decent odds you run into the wrong person sooner or later. One of my best friends never lost a wrestling match his entire high school career. I think he had an extra Y chromosome or something.
> Some guy back from Marine training started up with him. Yeah a few months of basic vs 12 plus years of wrestling. It was not pretty. Guy went through a plate glass window. If he had only known to look for cauliflower ears.


Watch out for the cauliflower!!!😂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I think there is a bit of grey here, it is not just black & white. I disagree with you in the following context. When a person becomes invested in the lives of people who are just friends, to the degree that those issues cause an emotional response that impacts that person's spouse in the marital relationship, then the friendship needs to be dialed back.
> 
> Here is my perspective....my circus is MY family. My monkeys are members of MY family. While I or she can and do have friends, we should not get involved in their love lives or other emotional storms. We have financially helped friends, we have provided a safe space for one her friends before.
> 
> I guess I am different than most people. My wife has been my best friend for 40 years. I really have no need for a lot of other close friends. I have one buddy that we have been friends for 47 years.


Yes but that's you. Your spouse doesn't have to become you and do everything your way. She has her own social habits. If she's not cheating there's just nothing wrong with her having friends and getting involved with people's lives and I think that applies whether the husband is threatened or not in a case where the husband is unreasonably possessive and just because he's not social but she is.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes but that's you. Your spouse doesn't have to become you and do everything your way. She has her own social habits. If she's not cheating there's just nothing wrong with her having friends and getting involved with people's lives and I think that applies whether the husband is threatened or not in a case where the husband is unreasonably possessive and just because he's not social but she is.


And where had this advice been applied and worked?

I'm genuinely interested because you're opposing input from a very lengthy, successfully married person.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I guess these two old adages were wrong all along, huh?
"Don't mix business with pleasure"
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Your default seems to be to allow as much opportunity for infidelity as possible and do nothing if it interferes with the way you operated when you were/are single.
Like you said "That may work for you" but there's no need to go on further with trying to convince everybody else it will work for them, as you seem to be doing.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Because she knows you. But there's nothing wrong with her having a friend Network at work just because you don't like it. You are the outlier here. Having friends at work is pretty normal.


And I’m not saying otherwise. Again, the types of interpersonal relationships my wife was forging at work were the type of relationships that are unhealthy to the matrimony. No one, including me, is saying that people shouldn’t have friends at work, or a network of. What is being discussed here is when people go too far with those relationships and put themselves in places where things can and OFTEN do develop.


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## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I think there is a bit of grey here, it is not just black & white. I disagree with you in the following context. When a person becomes invested in the lives of people who are just friends, to the degree that those issues cause an emotional response that impacts that person's spouse in the marital relationship, then the friendship needs to be dialed back.
> 
> Here is my perspective....my circus is MY family. My monkeys are members of MY family. While I or she can and do have friends, we should not get involved in their love lives or other emotional storms. We have financially helped friends, we have provided a safe space for one her friends before.
> 
> I guess I am different than most people. My wife has been my best friend for 40 years. I really have no need for a lot of other close friends. I have one buddy that we have been friends for 47 years.


I agree with this perspective. I have had coworker friends both male and female. My wife has had many more coworker friends in comparison to mine. All of hers were/are female because of her profession. She is more invested in her friends lives than I; however, not to the detriment in our relationship. Our relationship has been almost as long as yours.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes but that's you. Your spouse doesn't have to become you and do everything your way. She has her own social habits. If she's not cheating there's just nothing wrong with her having friends and getting involved with people's lives and I think that applies whether the husband is threatened or not in a case where the husband is unreasonably possessive and just because he's not social but she is.


You are absolutely right. I can agree to respect her feelings and conform my social life to ensure she feels safe, secure and loved in our marriage. Or I can do whatever the hell I want to.

She can conform her social life to protect our marriage and relationship or just do what she wants. That is absolutely her right as an adult woman. In that case, I would cut her loose in a divorce and she could get as involved in everyone else's lives that she wanted to.

Marriage takes work, establishing healthy boundaries, open communication and respecting each other. It also requires both spouses to conform their behaviors to protect the marriage. I absolutely trust my wife romantically and sexually. But I do not want the shyte storm of others peoples lives impacting ours.

Call me controlling....I do not not give a crap. I will put our 40, mostly very happy years above your or anyone's opinion. What matters to me is my wife's opinion.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

BoSlander said:


> I think this is why there's so much adultery in the workplace, because emotional connections are being made where there ought be none. My company is exactly like yours, we have zero investment in each other's personal life and are happy to have it that way. We even have classes that we need to take on an annual basis where we're explicitly told not to over engage on the personal stuff.


I have to agree. When you start building intimacy with opposite sex people in any environment it’s is easier and almost natural to smudge boundaries. A lot of people take tiny little steps over months and then when it’s gone into the realm of EA their brain is already twisted into a pretzel. The PA is just the natural progression of things from there.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> I have to agree. When you start building intimacy with opposite sex people in any environment it’s is easier and almost natural to smudge boundaries. A lot of people take tiny little steps over months and then when it’s gone into the realm of EA their brain is already twisted into a pretzel. The PA is just the natural progression of things from there.


It is way too easy for it to incrementally creep, like the fable of boiling a frog. My company has strict workplace relationships policies. A great deal is due to the potential liability of complaints of sexual harassment. In my experience, even in social organizations, this is a huge problem.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BootsAndJeans said:


> You are absolutely right. I can agree to respect her feelings and conform my social life to ensure she feels safe, secure and loved in our marriage. Or I can do whatever the hell I want to.
> 
> She can conform her social life to protect our marriage and relationship or just do what she wants. That is absolutely her right as an adult woman. In that case, I would cut her loose in a divorce and she could get as involved in everyone else's lives that she wanted to.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised you got this far but I bet if you're not social and she is that you never would have even met if she hadn't been social.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Tactic #4 — Isolation


Isolation is among some of the most debilitating tactics some men use to control their female partners.




speakoutloud.net


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm surprised you got this far but I bet if you're not social and she is that you never would have even met if she hadn't been social.


Wow lady. I am social, but I practice this old fashioned maxim called "minding my own business". There is a huge difference between being friends/being social and being too invested in other people's lives. Obviously, I am a man, so my emotional life is different than a typical woman. 

My wife, by the way, now agrees with me....once she got sucked into a female friends romantic/emotional hurricane. She now understands there have to be boundaries, even with friends.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm surprised you got this far but I bet if you're not social and she is that you never would have even met if she hadn't been social.


I have to agree with him, there should be a huge boundary around what type of conversation is had with any friend. There tends to be a group ***** mentality that happens when people start complaining about or discussing their spouses in an unflattering ways it builds up and can destroy relationships. With opposite sex (assuming heterosexual) it can easily progress to more. With same sex it’s destructive to one’s marriage and can actually destroy marriages because suddenly everyone starts hating their spouses. I’ve seen this happen with both sexes gossiping and complaining about their spouse.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Tactic #4 — Isolation
> 
> 
> Isolation is among some of the most debilitating tactics some men use to control their female partners.
> ...


Pretty common tactic used by the disordered, regardless of gender.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Wow lady. I am social, but I practice this old fashioned maxim called "minding my own business". There is a huge difference between being friends/being social and being too invested in other people's lives. Obviously, I am a man, so my emotional life is different than a typical woman.
> 
> My wife, by the way, now agrees with me....once she got sucked into a female friends romantic/emotional hurricane. She now understands there have to be boundaries, even with friends.


Someone starts confiding intimate stuff or dissatisfaction with a spouse, run.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Tactic #4 — Isolation
> 
> 
> Isolation is among some of the most debilitating tactics some men use to control their female partners.
> ...


Ah, the myth of *She The Victim*! Never fails. If there’s one thing females really dislike, better yet, DESPISE, is not being able to use their sexual energy/advances to get what they want.

Let me put it to you this way: if a person has a choice, THERE IS NO CONTROL. Meaning, if I make my boundary clear to my SO, she has a choice of not accepting my decision and divorcing me.

Consequently, the isolation bit is most often used by overly flirty females when their SO ask them to take it down a few notches.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

I think this is precisely one of the issues with high adultery rate workplaces like hospitals and schools: WAY overpaid people with insane benefit packages and WAY too much free time to engage in social innuendo.

I sure as hell know what it feels like: my ex is a school psychologist making close to what I make. At one point during our marriage she started making comments about her not needing me financially if need be… and it slowly grew on her that her life did not depend on the marriage. And so, just as with the financial part, she slowly began emotionally and romantically pivoting from the marriage to the school network of friends she had built at the school she was working at before she got out on disability.

Eventually, as is often the case, she went over the edge with the socializing part and started cheating with a coworker. And here we are: thanks to her coworker friends, she’s now on the way to getting divorced and depressed because the OM dumped her as soon as he found out I knew.

Talk about friendships.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> Pretty common tactic used by the disordered, regardless of gender.


Funny thing is that I was the one with lots of friends when I first met my XW. She had, oddly enough, no female friends at all and only two male friends, one of which was her ex. And she, not me, SHE, started finding faults and issues with all my friends to the point that I only kept in touch with 2 or 3 of them.

And then, once the marriage was established, she started complaining about me not having any friends. Go figure!!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BoSlander said:


> It's no secret that the workplace tends to be a hotbed of adultery. I think, one of the things that always catches people by surprise is seeing your SO's intense and deep emotional connections, most often unbeknown to us, in the form of affectionate body language, tongue-in-cheek behaviors and even lunch/coffee/dinner dates that are, again, most often kept from the SO, *for obvious reasons*.





BoSlander said:


> What is your experience?


My experience is it is good for married people to have a variety of good friends.

On that experience my wife throughout her career, has made friends with some of her male and female work superiors, subordinates and colleagues. Some of these friendships, have remained through 30+ years, while others have existed for lesser times to now. Some of these friendships are also transitory as well.

My wife has kissed some of these people hello goodbye etc, she has hugged and been hugged by some of them and not by others as well. My wife also sometimes has lunch, or catches up for coffee with both camel and female work colleagues alone including some she is friends with. Some of these friends of hers both male and female, are also people that she cares for, and has good rapport with etc, which is what makes them friends. She also keeps in touch with them when she has time as well.

As for myself I am also friends with a number of different male and female current and former work superiors, subordinates, colleagues, contractors and some clients. Some of those friendships have lasted through 30+ years and for lesser time periods to now, and some of them are transitory as well.

I have kissed some of these people hello and goodbye etc, I have hugged some of them and have been hugged as well. I have slept over at some of their places (and that includes women), had lunch and dinner with some of them alone and caught up at cafes etc. Some of the people both male and female that I am still friends with, are people who I have seen get changed, have seen naked and some of them have seen me naked and getting changed as well. Not forgetting I have also showered with some of my male friends who I used to work with.

That said I still work with some people who I consider to be friends, who I have rapport with and care for them as well.

Both my wife and I think, that is all good for us.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Tactic #4 — Isolation
> 
> 
> Isolation is among some of the most debilitating tactics some men use to control their female partners.
> ...


Know some psycho women do the same thing.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> Know some psycho women do the same thing.


Yep. Whoever does it, it's not okay.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Personal said:


> Some of the people both male and female that I am still friends with, are people who I have seen get changed, have seen naked and some of them have seen me naked and getting changed as well.


Whatever works for you but justifying that as 'normal' behavior is ****ed up. Hard stop.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Personal said:


> Some of the people both male and female that I am still friends with, are people who I have seen get changed, have seen naked and some of them have seen me naked and getting changed as well.





Rubix Cubed said:


> Whatever works for you but justifying that as 'normal' behavior is ****ed up. Hard stop.


Given most people (which must include you as well) in the United States where you are from and Australia where I live, have never served in the army or even been in infantry like I have either. It's not a surprise you would think being friends with people who you have both worked with and seen naked, is ****ed up.

That said having been an infantryman when I was a young man, I have seen many of my workmate friends, getting changed and being naked. Not forgetting doing FFI inspections for hygiene out in the field, plus communal field and barracks showers and the like.

Likewise since there are lots of occasions when I take pictures of naked men and women, plus draw and paint pictures of them naked in person as well for work these days. It's hardly a surprise that I will have seen some of them who have become my friends naked as well.

But hey I get it, some of you have all sorts of hangups about nudity.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Personal said:


> Given most people (which must include you as well) in the United States where you are from and Australia where I live, have never served in the army or even been in infantry like I have either. It's not a surprise you would think being friends with people who you have both worked with and seen naked, is ****ed up.
> 
> That said having been an infantryman when I was a young man, I have seen many of my workmate friends, getting changed and being naked. Not forgetting doing FFI inspections for hygiene out in the field, plus communal field and barracks showers and the like.
> 
> ...


Me thinks ye doth protest too much. You also make a lot of assumptions about people you have zero clue of their background and express that through ad hominem attacks.



Personal said:


> Given *most people *(which must include you as well) in the United States where you are from and Australia where I live, *have never* served in the army or even been in infantry like I have either.


So by this you agree with me that it isn't the norm. If "most people have never" than obviously that is an exception.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> So by this you agree with me that it isn't the norm. If "most people have never" than obviously that is an exception.


I can't help but be exceptional, of which given my experience I am certainly glad I am.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Personal said:


> Given most people (which must include you as well) in the United States where you are from and Australia where I live, have never served in the army or even been in infantry like I have either. It's not a surprise you would think being friends with people who you have both worked with and seen naked, is ****ed up.
> 
> That said having been an infantryman when I was a young man, I have seen many of my workmate friends, getting changed and being naked. Not forgetting doing FFI inspections for hygiene out in the field, plus communal field and barracks showers and the like.
> 
> ...



This is a bizarre post. So what if you saw naked people in the military? Lest you forget, the military also teaches soldiers to kill and maim fellow human beings under certain conditions, but that doesn't mean it's a behavior for society at large. By your thinking, my gynecologist friend should think other men "have hang ups" about people seeing their wives' genitalia, because he does it all the time in his work.

The OP started off by pointing out some unacceptable behaviors that crossed his acceptable boundaries for physical and emotional intimacy between his STBX and her coworkers. Picking up on this led him to discover her affair. Your post, on the other hand, strikes me as if you're trying to gaslight the OP into accepting that these sorts of behaviors are all OK. (If it's not your intent, then I would say you're threadjacking with your personal anecdotes.)

So, no, despite your military experience, I don't accept that this kind of behavior is appropriate for the society at large, and I agree with the OP that these sorts of intimacies need to not be accepted. And although I do not have a military background, I have an unusually large percentage of my family who have served, including career military, so I am also aware that there are significant issues of infidelity in the military; it's at least as common as the general population, and some studies say more so (reference: Veterans Twice as Likely to Cheat in One Study). So all this experience with nakedness and intimacy doesn't appear to make people any less likely to cheat, and the incidence may even be higher.

Therefore, in bringing this back to @BoSlander 's original point, I would agree with him that excessive emotional and physical intimacy with people outside the marriage can be a bad sign.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> Funny thing is that I was the one with lots of friends when I first met my XW. She had, oddly enough, no female friends at all and only two male friends, one of which was her ex. And she, not me, SHE, started finding faults and issues with all my friends to the point that I only kept in touch with 2 or 3 of them.
> 
> And then, once the marriage was established, she started complaining about me not having any friends. Go figure!!


Yep, BTDT. My playing basketball once a week with my friends, pre kids, was a huge threat to my XW. OTOH, her going out multiple nights a week to drink and, eventually, hook up...


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Personal said:


> My experience is it is good for married people to have a variety of good friends.
> 
> On that experience my wife throughout her career, has made friends with some of her male and female work superiors, subordinates and colleagues. Some of these friendships, have remained through 30+ years, while others have existed for lesser times to now. Some of these friendships are also transitory as well.
> 
> ...


Personal, thanks for the input but... I'm not talking about "normal" friendships, I'm talking about work relationships that eventually make it to the personal level and those involved keeping the intensity of those friendships as well as their meetings/dates or frequency being specifically kept secret from the main romantic relationship, either some of the time or all the time.

Which I believe is cheater behavior because if there's something cheaters are known for is minimizing ("she's just a friend" or "he's just a co worker" or "he's gay") and obfuscating ("I never told you because I didn't think you'd want to know" or "I didn't tell you because the phone ran out of battery").


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Tactic #4 — Isolation
> 
> 
> Isolation is among some of the most debilitating tactics some men use to control their female partners.
> ...


And some women. It's not just a "male" thing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> And some women. It's not just a "male" thing.


Yup. Happened to my oldest son by his now ex.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

I agree @BoSlander that keeping secrets from one’s spouse about developing a romantic/sexual relationship and obfuscating and telling lies and all the rest isn’t okay at all.

And though most workplace friendships involving married people, don’t turn into marital sexual infidelity, some of those friendships certainly do.

At the end of the day all you can tea do is be attentive and if something seems off, look into it, then determine what to do, based on the information that you have found.

That said if someone finds they can’t trust their spouse, regardless of having ruled out or not, any bias towards being overly insecure, not trusting or any paranoia. I can’t see how wanting to hang onto a marriage with someone that one feels they can’t trust, is worth paying the ongoing costs to maintain.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Personal said:


> I agree @BoSlander that keeping secrets from one’s spouse about developing a romantic/sexual relationship and obfuscating and telling lies and all the rest isn’t okay at all.


That's the thing with adultery, there is no "developing." Once the person realizes feelings are involved, it's already too late. 



> And though most workplace friendships involving married people, don’t turn into marital sexual infidelity, some of those friendships certainly do.


I would NOT say that. "_19% of employees admitted to stepping out on their partner with a colleague at work, a surprising 44% of employees have known colleagues who had affairs at work or on business trips_." Meaning 1 in every 5 MARRIED coworker is getting punani on the side. That's 10 in every 50 and 100 in every 500. And again, as the second part of the quoted text suggests, the 19% figure is probably wildly underestimated. Moreover, I would venture to say that professions with high adultery rates (schools, hospitals, military, etc) are closer to 2-3 out of every 5.



> At the end of the day all you can tea do is be attentive and if something seems off, look into it, then determine what to do, based on the information that you have found.


And that's exactly the point of the OP, to find out what everyone's views are on this issue. 



> That said if someone finds they can’t trust their spouse, regardless of having ruled out or not, any bias towards being overly insecure, not trusting or any paranoia. I can’t see how wanting to hang onto a marriage with someone that one feels they can’t trust, is worth paying the ongoing costs to maintain.


Well, trust is the core issue behind the OP. When someone spends x amount of energy setting up and keeping up friendships at work and keeping that information secret, if the other person finds out, trust is out the window. Most people will say that these friendships are beneficial but, are they really? If you're going out for drinks after work with coworker friends and come home at 1AM to a previously horny but now fully asleep husband/wife... from an emotional and romantic standpoint, are you sure you're efficiently allocating your attention? Or are you putting yourself in places that only create doubt and mistrust?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I've had no issues like this with my Mrs. but she also has always held me up as a priority, never putting me second to anyone or thing.

I've seen a hell of a lot of misbehaving in the workplace over the years though.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Personal said:


> Given most people (which must include you as well) in the United States where you are from and Australia where I live, have never served in the army or even been in infantry like I have either. It's not a surprise you would think being friends with people who you have both worked with and seen naked, is ****ed up.
> 
> That said having been an infantryman when I was a young man, I have seen many of my workmate friends, getting changed and being naked. Not forgetting doing FFI inspections for hygiene out in the field, plus communal field and barracks showers and the like.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I get the military thing, men all taking showers together. I spent nearly forty years in the Army and its Reserve Forces.
Did that, done that.

However, no coworker ladies, did I view, naked!

I do not think, that our presently, _Woke Military_ allows that.
Not yet!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I've seen a hell of a lot of misbehaving in the workplace over the years though.


Me too. When was working, I used to wonder how we had any time to actually run the business and make a profit. The workplace affairs going on all of the time reminded me of Peyton Place. One manager had a harem of married and unmarried women lined up continuously for his attention. Lot of the managers had women in their offices with the door closed and locked for hours. We had one female manager who was diddling the young new hire males. Even the field workers in the factories and warehouses were spending a lot of time with extracurricular activities.

Late in my career, corporate lowered the hammer with strict rules and harsh penalties for these things, as harassment suits became more and more common. I watched more than one manager escorted off of premises from violating the new rules.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> And some women. It's not just a "male" thing.


Oh absolutely, although I have just never ended up being friends with a woman like that but I've heard about them and seen them. I have been friends with women who have men trying to isolate them, over and over.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh absolutely, although I have just never ended up being friends with a woman like that but I've heard about them and seen them. I have been friends with women who have men trying to isolate them, over and over.


Welcome to male life.

If there’s one thing a newlywed wife will do is, once the nest-building instinct gets going at full speed, is convince the husband to drop the friends and concentrate on the nest.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> Welcome to male life.
> 
> If there’s one thing a newlywed wife will do is, once the nest-building instinct gets going at full speed, is convince the husband to drop the friends and concentrate on the nest.


Yup....it's a biological thing. Mine did it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BoSlander said:


> Welcome to male life.
> 
> If there’s one thing a newlywed wife will do is, once the nest-building instinct gets going at full speed, is convince the husband to drop the friends and concentrate on the nest.


Absolutely not all of them at all. Only the ones with the same insecurity and pathology of the jealous possessive men. 

They certainly exist. But I don't know any women who tried to keep their men from their friends. It just depends on what kind of people you attract I guess. I never let someone have pathological or possessive stay around me whether they were male or female.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Absolutely not all of them at all. Only the ones with the same insecurity and pathology of the jealous possessive men.
> 
> They certainly exist. But* I don't know any women *who tried to keep their men from their friends. It just depends on what kind of people you attract I guess. I never let someone have pathological or possessive stay around me whether they were male or female.


“They certainly exist”???? Why don’t you do a survey of all men in this forum and try to find out if they’ve even been isolated by their SO.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh absolutely, although I have just never ended up being friends with a woman like that but I've heard about them and seen them. I have been friends with women who have men trying to isolate them, over and over.


That's because they are not recognized as being isolated. (Kind of like when women can't conceive of women hitting men as being domestic violence). It is well documented that in married couples, most of the friendships are managed by the women, and that is why men are much more likely to be without any social support after divorce. Women CLAIM that it's because men don't make the effort, but in reality, before marriage men DO have a network of friends. It is because of the influence of the wife that these friendships diminish. The common stereotype is a woman being resentful because the man is "running around with his friends" instead of being at home with her, and so her complaints and carping (as well as her counter-scheduling) lead to a gradual erosion of a man's social circle. But this is not recognized as "being isolated by the wife", even though this is exactly what is occurring. 

It's not really my opinion. There is a great deal of data about the increasing social isolation of men in society, to a much greater degree then women, and it can easily be seen with a Google search. So, the objecting women in TAM must all be the 0.0001% of the population that is the exception, because statistically, the isolation is MUCH, MUCH more likely to occur to men in society as a whole.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> “They certainly exist”???? Why don’t you do a survey of all men in this forum and try to find out if they’ve even been isolated by their SO.


Yeah, seen it a lot. My XWs both hated some of my friends and were critical of them. What hypocrisy. Clearly, they were better people than a cheater. It is not a gender specific deal. It is a sign of a disordered person.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

BoSlander said:


> “They certainly exist”???? Why don’t you do a survey of all men in this forum and try to find out if they’ve even been isolated by their SO.


OP, you are completely right.

The women posters who don't see it in their social circles really DON'T WANT TO SEE it. Because the data says it is so widespread, it would be unimaginable it is not happening in couples around you.

I've already referenced how research/data has documented that MEN are actually more isolated than women. And though it's not a scientific sampling, you can see an example of HOW this process works by looking up, "Why does my husband prefer being with his friends more than me?", in the Quora website. ( Quora Answers to this question )

A poster on that site responds:
*"Because he cares about his friends more than he cares about you.Because he is choosingThe company of his friendsOver the company of you.Because your husband doesn’t understand What being your husband means and he isn’t mature enough to realize that when A man marries you don’t still hang out with all your buddies like you did in high school.And because he’s not giving it a second thought about neglecting his wife.In short my dear your husband is selfish….I’m guessing his mom and dad never taught him how not to be."*

So it appears that men who maintain friendships are "immature", "neglectful", "selfish", etc., (unless its some limited amount of time with friends approved by the wife).

Yet on another TAM thread a few months ago, women posters (who are also posting in this thread), responded to a cheater woman who had a skanky friend that the husband was concerned was a bad influence on the wife and influenced his wife to cheat. The women advised the poster NOT to lose this questionable friend, and instead consider divorcing the "controlling" husband.

So that's the narrative in society as well as among some TAM posters. Women should keep their friends, even if they are potentially a threat to the marriage, and the husband is "controlling" or "abusive" if they object to the sketchy individual, nature of the relationship/interactions, or the excessive time commitment. However, a woman is allowed to control a man's outside relationships, and if he objects he's "selfish", "immature" or "neglectful". 

And to bring it back to you, OP, it appears you were labelled as "controlling" or "abusive" by your STBX when you called out her shady friendships which, in the long run, proved to actually be infidelity or facilitating her infidelity.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But it is her circus and her monkeys if she's friends with them. There's nothing wrong with becoming invested in other people's lives.


It's never good to mix business and pleasure.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

There is something to be said about a person who surrounds themselves with friends who are destructive or just not good people. Making such a person kick their friends to the curb doesn’t change the reason why they have those friends. Some of us had to learn this the hard way.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> There is something to be said about a person who surrounds themselves with friends who are destructive or just not good people. Making such a person kick their friends to the curb doesn’t change the reason why they have those friends. Some of us had to learn this the hard way.


I couldn't agree more...Total truth.
My mom used to say " tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are "


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Wolfman1968 said:


> OP, you are completely right.
> 
> The women posters who don't see it in their social circles really DON'T WANT TO SEE it. Because the data says it is so widespread, it would be unimaginable it is not happening in couples around you.
> 
> ...


Good analogy to the views on domestic violence. Despite a lot of research demonstrating female on male violence is, roughly, just as prevalent as vice versa, the number of shelters accepting male victims is minuscule compared to the number available for women. 
And, ever billboard or ad campaign one sees for domestic violence awareness seems to have pictures of only battered women.
Very much like infidelity used to be, and still is to some extent, viewed as disproportionately the province of males. Yet the stats show the participation is pretty even between the genders.
One by product I see among males that are betrayed is their getting a new found awareness that women are not very much different than men as regards domestic abuse and cheating. And, they are also starting to recognize the emotional abuse they have experienced whereas in the past they glossed over it.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Yup. @Megaforce is batting a thousand here. 

I grew up in a house (deliberately did not use the word home), where my mother and stepfather were physically and emotionally abusive to each other and my siblings and I. 

She never outright said anything bad about my biological father, but strongly painted him as the out of control reason they got divorced. He has been married 3 more times, wives 2 & 3 died of cancer. In none of his other marriages, including wife #4, has he been violent or abusive. Much later, after I had moved back home after the military, I had a long talk with him.

He said, my mother is the one that filed for divorce. I know she had cousins move her/kids while we were at school and he was at work on the railroad. He told me she refused to go to counseling, she eventually isolated us kids from him by moving several hundreds of miles away. She married my step-dad exactly 1 day after the divorce was finalized. My biological father and my step-dad's brother, were best friends from junior high until my mom married my step-dad. In fact, my middle name is the name of my step-uncle.

I may not be a real smart man, but I figured out what my mom did to my father, a long time ago. I have deliberately minimized all interactions and communications with her psychotic, cheating person. Sad really, she is now 70 something, 5 foot tall and five feet in diameter and just a miserable, unhappy person.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Yup. MegaForce is batting a thousand here.
> 
> I grew up in a house (deliberately did not use the word home), where my mother and stepfather were physically and emotionally abusive to each other and my siblings and I.
> 
> ...


My mom did not cheat, but the way she treated my dad with sarcasm, ridicule due to ED and belittling has damaged my view of her. Dad had heart attack and passed ~3 yrs ago. Sadly he loved her too much to leave, so he finally died to get away from her. He loved her but could not stand to be around her. 
She is now 74 and I call her about every 3-4 weeks. She lives 20 miles away with her dog. All the time she has alone, I think she now sees how bad she screwed up by the way she treated dad. She has plenty of time to think about her actions and regrets.

She was not even at the hospital when he died. She was home. He was in for dehydration and UTI due to diabetes and had heart attack. When nurses came for his lunch tray, he was gone. But they should never have married in 1st place. She did not love dad, he was a baby daddy for my older sister. She will even say that she did not love him when they got married, she "grew to love him". That statement still really irks my sister.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> My mom did not cheat, but the way she treated my dad with sarcasm, ridicule due to ED and belittling has damaged my view of her. Dad had heart attack and passed ~3 yrs ago. Sadly he loved her too much to leave, so he finally died to get away from her. He loved her but could not stand to be around her.
> She is now 74 and I call her about every 3-4 weeks. She lives 20 miles away with her dog. All the time she has alone, I think she now sees how bad she screwed up by the way she treated dad. She has plenty of time to think about her actions and regrets.
> 
> She was not even at the hospital when he died. She was home. He was in for dehydration and UTI due to diabetes and had heart attack. When nurses came for his lunch tray, he was gone. But they should never have married in 1st place. She did not love dad, he was a baby daddy for my older sister. She will even say that she did not love him when they got married, she "grew to love him". That statement still really irks my sister.


 Divinely - this type of thing is one reason I am thankful for my wife. Too many people carry on cycles they were raised in. A lot of men marry women that act like their mother. My wife is nothing like my mother....she is sane, emotionally stable and honorable. 

But to the point of the conversations. In the USA, I think there is a cultural belief that women are kinder, gentler and always the victim. This is obviously BS, I have seen and been the victim of an abusive woman. I think women are given a lot of the benefit of doubt, especially in cases of family/marital problems. The "men are violent" generalization plays into this. The reality is that both males and females can be crazy, it is not gender specific.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

...


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Our societal problems arise from finding a workable balance with these imperatives.

_Competition_ and_ tribalism _are the most contentious factors acting out in our human society.
[/QUOTE]

Dude, I was


SunCMars said:


> Humans (male and female), as a species, are just very intelligent animals.
> We are not "divine".
> I wish we were!
> 
> ...


Dude, I was replying to the user named Divinely Favored....maybe dial down the atheist apologetics.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Dude, I was
> 
> Dude, I was replying to the user named Divinely Favored....maybe dial down the atheist apologetics.


No offense intended!

I see where I should not have tagged _your_ Avatar, to make 'a' point.
Mea Culpa.


I have a very strong belief in God.
Though, obviously, not the same as yours.
Sobeit.

I do admit, I am an outlier.

I am going to delete any reference to you.
Just, because.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

My wife has proven to have good boundaries with friends and work colleagues. My wife has only worked long term at two different places in the time we've been married.

The first was before we had kids. It was an electrical supply company. The place was a pretty even mix of male and female employees. The employer treated the employees incredibly well. Huge Christmas party every year as well as a summer weekend getaway. There was also a ton of infidelity, including between coworkers. Much of which was clearly hypergamy at work. The owner had an affair with one of the office staff my wife worked with and they ended up getting married. Another office worker and former good friends of my wife explicitly said she left her husband, who was a soldier like me, for the the sales manager because "her husband couldn't give her the life she and her child deserved." There were many others. Looking back, I truly believe the highly social culture of the workplace contributed to the infidelity. As fun as those parties and weekend getaways were, I also think they were prime opportunities to cause relationship trouble. I don't think we had an issue because of my wife's character, personality, attitude about her marriage and our public interactions with each other. My wife has always had a habit of telling her coworkers how happily married she is. I would regularly pop in for lunch. On our 5th anniversary I had 5 dozen roses delivered to her. Which made all the men there give me a hard time for making them look bad, lol. We were connected at the hip during those company events. I didn't stop her from socializing, but when I was there we came as a set. I'm positive everyone knew my wife was off limits.

I've told this story here before. At this employer they regularly went out to lunch together. It was always a mixed gender group. One time everyone backed out last minute except my wife and one of the male salesmen. They decided to still go. My wife later told me all about it. They actually had a nice lunch together, but it felt like a date to her. Even though the conversation never got inappropriate she said it felt wrong and looked wrong for a married woman to be out socially with another man. She told the colleague she enjoyed lunch, but it felt awkward and told him that she wouldn't do solo lunch again. (BTW, that guy moved in with the wife of his best friend and colleague about one month after the husband died in a motorcycle accident. Makes you wonder when that all actually started.) I think my wife may have been a bit sensitive due to things she had witnessed over the years at this employer, but she set this boundary for herself without us ever having discussed it. My wife really enjoyed working there and made some good friends. Some she is still friends with today, decades later. Also interesting, the vast majority of those affairs that ended up with APs getting married are still married. My wife left this employer shortly after our first child was born. She became a SAHM.

Now my wife is working at an elementary school. She started there once the kids hit middle school and has been there about 15 years. She is currently in a kindergarten class. Although it is mostly women, there are a significant number of men there too. I would guess 15-20% male if you count all staff, not just teachers. She has made great friends there, including male friends. There is even one male PE teacher that she is very good friends with. They even text occasionally after work. That said, I am also good friends with him and his wife. We hang out as couples too. He is a mentor of my son's, who is about to become a PE teacher. She never hides any communication or engages alone, one on one. That along with her past demonstrated behaviors tells me her boundaries are solid.

I love hearing about my wife's day. She will talk about students and work in general, but I do hear about some of the drama at work and some personal things that come up. I really don't mind it and it is often a conversation starter for us to talk about our marriage or something along those line. None of it has been about infidelity and I'm not aware of any of that happening at her school. Honestly it is mostly hearing about her closest colleagues complaining about their husbands not pulling their own weight when it comes to taking care of the kids, house, etc. Apparently my wife is quite proud of me and often uses us as an example of how it can and should work. She's clear that we had our growing pains when figuring out the balancing act of kid's activities, work and home life, but we figured it out. It is kind of funny how I get treated when I show up at her school. Everyone that is close to my wife swoons and fawns over me because she talks me up so positively. They are constantly telling her how lucky she is. They aren't wrong 

So bottom line for us is I'm glad my wife has colleagues she considers friends, of both genders. I think that is important for her to be a healthy person and to have a healthy relationship with me. She also has very solid boundaries of her own making. I wonder if that is simply her nature or if there is some influence from the cheating when we first started dating. I have it detailed in another post I originated, so I won't go into deep detail, but this is needed to completely paint the picture. About one month into us dating she slept with her ex-fiancé. This was before we had sex the first time. She immediately confessed, was 110% remorseful and did everything right to keep us together. Again, she did that all on her own, without the benefit of books or internet advice. It is possible that her sensitivity to this has effected her, but I think in general she just has good character and solid self imposed boundaries. She respects me and our marriage in the same way she wants me to act.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't think we had an issue because of my wife's character, personality, attitude about her marriage and our public interactions with each other.


Right on BigDaddyNY.....as I have said before, people look to find the reasons for infidelity. It boils down to the character of the person. Character is what counts.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> My wife has proven to have good boundaries with friends and work colleagues. My wife has only worked long term at two different places in the time we've been married.
> 
> The first was before we had kids. It was an electrical supply company. The place was a pretty even mix of male and female employees. The employer treated the employees incredibly well. Huge Christmas party every year as well as a summer weekend getaway. There was also a ton of infidelity, including between coworkers. Much of which was clearly hypergamy at work. The owner had an affair with one of the office staff my wife worked with and they ended up getting married. Another office worker and former good friends of my wife explicitly said she left her husband, who was a soldier like me, for the the sales manager because "her husband couldn't give her the life she and her child deserved." There were many others. Looking back, I truly believe the highly social culture of the workplace contributed to the infidelity. As fun as those parties and weekend getaways were, I also think they were prime opportunities to cause relationship trouble. I don't think we had an issue because of my wife's character, personality, attitude about her marriage and our public interactions with each other. My wife has always had a habit of telling her coworkers how happily married she is. I would regularly pop in for lunch. On our 5th anniversary I had 5 dozen roses delivered to her. Which made all the men there give me a hard time for making them look bad, lol. We were connected at the hip during those company events. I didn't stop her from socializing, but when I was there we came as a set. I'm positive everyone knew my wife was off limits.
> 
> ...


My wife worked in a welding manufacturing facility. Most of women were in office, the other 500 employees were 99% men in the shop. She just delt with the management and shop foremen. They all knew me and around her they were on their best behavior. If someone cursed in front of her, they would immediately apologize or another guy would call them out for cursing in front of my wife. She was the one who helped everyone, she was an excel genius. She learned a process for tracking every piece of pipe that came into facility, every weld and every worker that touched that pipe until it left the back gate. Her and plant mgr were only ones in the company that learned it. But they would not pay her over $13 /hr because her job description was admin asst. She hated working with women and would rather work with a bunch of stinking guys from the welding shop.

I was thinking again how much our spouses parallel right up to that last part. 

That would have been the end for me. If I am dating someone and they did that, I consider that cheating and am gone. If she knew it was wrong, why the hell screw him....sounds like she was not ready to let him go. But damn, what an F'ed up way to start a new relationship.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> I was thinking again how much our spouses parallel right up to that last part.
> 
> That would have been the end for me. If I am dating someone and they did that, I consider that cheating and am gone. If she knew it was wrong, why the hell screw him....*sounds like she was not ready to let him go*. But damn, what an F'ed up way to start a new relationship.


That is it right there in bold and you aren't kidding about an F'ed up way to start a new relationship. She wasn't over him and probably shouldn't have gotten into a new relationship yet. However, I think it was the catalyst that showed her who he really was and finally got her over him. It was most certainly cheating. I stuck with her for many reasons. We had not gone much past kissing yet, I was an inexperienced and horny as hell 16 year old and you could have written a book on how to be remorseful and work for reconciliation after infidelity based on her actions. There is much more, but in the end I have never regretted sticking with her. I'm glad this happened before I had more relationship experience because I do think it would have been over, which I now know means I would have missed out on being married to one of the most kind, loving, loyal and beautiful women in the world. 

Over the years she has thanked me numerous times for giving her a second chance and giving her the marriage and family of her dreams.. This is why I think her rock solid boundaries may have been influenced by that past experience. I think she never wants me to feel any concern that she isn't 100% faithful.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Divinely - this type of thing is one reason I am thankful for my wife. Too many people carry on cycles they were raised in. A lot of men marry women that act like their mother. My wife is nothing like my mother....she is sane, emotionally stable and honorable.
> 
> But to the point of the conversations. In the USA, I think there is a cultural belief that women are kinder, gentler and always the victim. This is obviously BS, I have seen and been the victim of an abusive woman. I think women are given a lot of the benefit of doubt, especially in cases of family/marital problems. The "men are violent" generalization plays into this. The reality is that both males and females can be crazy, it is not gender specific.


I started out acting like my dad. Passive. Yes dear, what ever you say dear. I was not getting the reaction I wanted. She was pushing me to stand up to her as she did not want a weak ass man. I got to a point and realized I did not want to be like my dad. It was killing me to bite my tongue when she was pushing my buttons. Holding it in and letting it build resentment was eating me like cancer. I finally blew a gasket and dropped years worth of resentment in her lap over 2 days. From them on, we communicate and like has been onward and upward, wonderful.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is it right there in bold and you aren't kidding about an F'ed up way to start a new relationship. She wasn't over him and probably shouldn't have gotten into a new relationship yet. However, I think it was the catalyst that showed her who he really was and finally got her over him. It was most certainly cheating. I stuck with her for many reasons. We had not gone much past kissing yet, I was an inexperienced and horny as hell 16 year old and you could have written a book on how to be remorseful and work for reconciliation after infidelity based on her actions. There is much more, but in the end I have never regretted sticking with her. I'm glad this happened before I had more relationship experience because I do think it would have been over, which I now know means I would have missed out on being married to one of the most kind, loving, loyal and beautiful women in the world.
> 
> Over the years she has thanked me numerous times for giving her a second chance and giving her the marriage and family of her dreams.. This is why I think her rock solid boundaries may have been influenced by that past experience. I think she never wants me to feel any concern that she isn't 100% faithful.


My wife still thanks me for not giving up on her and leaving 15 yrs ago when she was being a total B. Her ex was a serial cheater and I took the brunt of a lot of her anger until she got her **** squared away. I am very long suffering but I was almost to my end, when she finally saw what she was doing was driving me away and reversed course.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

I scored the jackpot with my wife. She put up with my damage and helped me heal. I honestly know I would not be alive today, if I had not met her.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> I started out acting like my dad. Passive. Yes dear, what ever you say dear. I was not getting the reaction I wanted. She was pushing me to stand up to her as she did not want a weak ass man. I got to a point and realized I did not want to be like my dad. It was killing me to bite my tongue when she was pushing my buttons. Holding it in and letting it build resentment was eating me like cancer. I finally blew a gasket and dropped years worth of resentment in her lap over 2 days. From them on, we communicate and like has been onward and upward, wonderful.


Many times this will result in your being called abusive. Narcissists, in particular, push people to their limits until they react. Then, the narcissist claims victimhood. Seen it a bunch of times. Normally kind, gentle people just blow a gasket, eventually. A true narcissist has boundless energy to try to get an eruption. Glad your wife did not play this game but giving someone shyt tests is not too healthy, either.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> I started out acting like my dad. Passive. Yes dear, what ever you say dear. I was not getting the reaction I wanted. She was pushing me to stand up to her as she did not want a weak ass man. I got to a point and realized I did not want to be like my dad. It was killing me to bite my tongue when she was pushing my buttons. Holding it in and letting it build resentment was eating me like cancer. I finally blew a gasket and dropped years worth of resentment in her lap over 2 days. From them on, we communicate and like has been onward and upward, wonderful.


I tease my wife about being bossy, but it is just teasing. She knows I respect a woman who will stand up to me, but also knows when to follow my lead. We are really well balanced as a couple. We have grown up a lot over the last 40 years.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Megaforce said:


> Many times this will result in your being called abusive. Narcissists, in particular, push people to their limits until they react. Then, the narcissist claims victimhood. Seen it a bunch of times. Normally kind, gentle people just blow a gasket, eventually. A true narcissist has boundless energy to try to get an eruption. Glad your wife did not play this game but giving someone shyt tests is not too healthy, either.


My wife wanted a man to lead. She never wanted to be the one wearing the pants. She just wanted to be a wife and mother more than anything else.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> My wife wanted a man to lead. She never wanted to be the one wearing the pants. She just wanted to be a wife and mother more than anything else.


Perhaps she might have just told you vs acting unkindly.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Megaforce said:


> Perhaps she might have just told you vs acting unkindly.


She realizes the error after the fact. Her actions delayed what she wanted all along. I would not take the step to get home loan because she would get mad and drop the D word. I am not going to buy a house when wife is talking about leaving. 

If she had just talked to me, instead of assuming that I was not willing to stand on my own, due to her past issues with her ex, who remained attached to his mom's tit during their marriage. 

She realizes it is on her that our marriage could have been where it is now, 15 yrs ago. That is why she still thanks me for not leaving her before she got her crap straight.

True communication is essential to a productive marriage. My past with my wife is why it irks me when some of the women on this site presume to know what a male poster is thinking, when the male poster has indicated nothing of the sort. 

Some of these girls will say male said such and such, I'm like where the hell did you get that?! He said nothing of the sort! If a guy says this, he means exactly that. Don't read into it, something that is not there! Most women are BAD about doing that. 

By doing that, it is actually the woman that has communication issues, not the men. The men communicate, the women are trying to translate it into a different language. Then act like men are not communicating, because they did not act according to the foreign language translation the women changed it into.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> She realizes the error after the fact. Her actions delayed what she wanted all along. I would not take the step to get home loan because she would get mad and drop the D word. I am not going to buy a house when wife is talking about leaving.
> 
> If she had just talked to me, instead of assuming that I was not willing to stand on my own, due to her past issues with her ex, who remained attached to his mom's tit during their marriage.
> 
> ...


I agree with you but have seen similar done to women by men who are reading things into their posts.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I agree with you but have seen similar done to women by men who are reading things into their posts.


Yep on occasion by the men who have been burned. I think the women are masters at miscommunication and twisting things and tends to come natural.

Wife: I cooked brussel sprouts for supper.

Hubby: I do not like BS.

Wife: He hates my cooking! 😫Wait...my mom likes BS. 🤨He hates my mom too! 😡


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I scored the jackpot with my wife. She put up with my damage and helped me heal. I honestly know I would not be alive today, if I had not met her.


I feel the same way. I truly believe my wife, then GF, being in my life saved me from either jail or death. I was on a very self destructive path for a while as a teenager. She put up with a lot from me while we were dating, so much so I wasn't sure she would say yes when I proposed. Thankfully when I finally came to my sense and decided I what I wanted to do with my life and that I wanted her to be my permanent partner in life she was there for me again, we left our home town and never really looked back. 

I feel she is fully invested in me and our relationship, so I've never felt I had to worry about her interactions with coworkers or other friends. Her demonstrated actions over the years show me that my trust in her is well placed.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Yep on occasion by the men who have been burned. I think the women are masters at miscommunication and twisting things and tends to come natural.
> 
> Wife: I cooked brussel sprouts for supper.
> 
> ...


In our society, men get a very bad rap for communication skills and being in touch with their emotions. It is as if there is no acknowledgment of all the great male philosophers, orators, poets, authors, psychologists, artists etc throughout history. We see these absurd stereotypes of insensitive, uncommunicative louts on TV and movies that are completely untrue.
Like so many stereotypes, these are used by intellectually lazy folks to pigeonhole a class of people so as not to have to look at them individually.
I am pretty sure I am fairly typical. I was a very good athlete in college. Many of my close friends had similar backgrounds. I also have friends in all types of professions, blue and white collar.
We talk frequently. While sometimes the initial part of the conversation may touch on a sport or hobby, we do not spend too much time discussing " da bears" or the boxscore of the Yankees game or carburetors etc.
We discuss our challenges, our feelings, our families etc for the most part. Yet, to hear some folks characterize men one would think we come in the door, insist on being brought a beer and plop down in front of the television to watch some game or the other.
You see the same stereotype applied to the alleged reason for men cheating vs women cheating. The prevailing view seems to be that it is all about the physical part for men and more about emotional fulfillment for women. There is denial that many men enjoy emotional intimacy and that many women have high sex drives and seek physical pleasure same as men.
In college, I lived in a house with one other guy and six women. What passed for deep, emotional conversations for the women was every bit as superficial as anything the men talked about. Much of it was gossip or expressions of lust for some guy with a " nice ass."
I read an article by a woman researcher who interviewed couples who stayed together after the wife cheated. This woman was, herself,,a cheater during her marriage. She often heard the women cheaters justify their cheating by alleging their husbands were poor communicators and/ or emotionally unavailable etc.
But, when she interviewed the husbands,she found they were, in fact,,better communicators than their wives in many cases. She found that many had curtailed their communication with their wives to some degree, however, because when they expressed their true thoughts and feelings, they were ignored or even chastised .Rather than really wanting to hear their husbands' thoughts and feelings, she found the wives merely wanted their husbands to be echo chambers, validating their own thoughts and opinions vs expressing independent ones.
After a while,the husbands just gave up,tired af being rebuked .
Anyway, it sort of mirrored my experience.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Sorry about the typos. They were not really typos but this tablet does some really strange auto corrections.
I never typed " chubby". That shouldl read " cheating".
And the word " art" should read " article ".


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Sorry about the typos. They were not really typos but this tablet does some really strange auto corrections.
> I never typed " chubby". That shouldl read " cheating".
> And the word " art" sho UK ld read " article ".


You can edit your post by clicking/touching the three dots in the upper right corner of the post.


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