# Wife is choosing other man



## Clemson

I found this board and thought I would start a thread to see if I can get thoughts from others. My Wife is probably too far gone.

Little background on marriage. My Wife and I had a great Marriage and wonderful life. We met when she was 23 and I was 32. Wife is an old soul who likes to sew and cook and comes from a great family where church and family are the focus. She was a late bloomer and really didn't become attractive until college. She is the youngest of 3 daughters. Wife was sweet, loving, loyal and very attractive - perfect wife material. Wife and I were married in 2010 after dating for 3 years. Wife dated one guy all through college before breaking up with him and then meeting me. From the beginning, she was obsessed with me and would not even go out with her friends unless I came too. 

We spent all our time together and genuinely loved being with each other. Without a doubt, we were each other’s best friends. Wife was definitely co-dependent on me and I was with her to some extent. I am an attorney and Wife works in insurance and we have no kids so we traveled extensively and generally lived a fun life. My wife complained about very little and never voiced any problems in our marriage. Wife always seemed happy and we almost never fought.

In April 2016, I started a new law firm which began taking up a lot of my time. Wife also started a new job that required her to travel. We seemed to be acclimating fine to this different/stressful time in our lives. I was working particularly long hours in September and October. 

In November 2016, I come home from work to find Wife crying on our couch. Wife says she met a male co-worker and they had an affair during 3 week-long business trips (which happened during the period of my birthday and our anniversary). Apparently they really connected and had great passion. Wife says she was lonely and didn't know she was unhappy until she met OM. OM is 35 years old and married with three small children and lives in another state 1000 miles away. I was devastated and never suspected A. Wife tells me she loves me and chooses me over the OM. Wife has deep feelings for OM. Wife sends a no contact text to OM the next day and shows it to me. Wife seemed genuinely remorseful. Wife's two sisters tell me they too had no idea she was in trouble despite talking to her almost everyday. Her entire family is saddened by Wife's actions.

Two weeks later we are boarding a plane for a previously scheduled trip. I look over and see Wife texting OM and I almost have a panic attack. OM has told his wife of the affair but can’t stop thinking of my wife. My wife says OM reached out to her the night before and said “thinking of you”. Wife apologizes and I take her phone and text OM to never contact my wife or I will tell their employer about what is going on. We then start couples counseling. Wife tells counselor she wants to make our Marriage work.

Another two weeks later though, my wife gives me the ILYBNILWY line. I’m stunned. When I challenge her that she barely knows OM she says she's known him "101 days" like a teenager. I'm really concerned I'm losing her. But over the remainder of December, things are actually pretty good as we work on us. On New Year's Eve, we are at a party and Wife says she is thinking of OM. I lose it and tell her I'm done with the marriage. 

The next day, Wife is sobbing and tells me she can't live without me, she wishes A never happened and she will quit her job if it means she keeps me. In late January 2017, we go out of town and one night Wife breaks down crying and says she can't get over OM. My heart is broken.

Once back home, Wife tells me she wants to separate so she can have time to think. I tell Wife we can do in-home separation on one condition: that she not contact OM. Wife refuses and I make her leave our home. Two days later Wife contacts OM and finds out he has been kicked out of his house by his wife and lives with his brother now. OM is interested in continuing the A. On February 12, I meet WW and she tells me she is choosing OM over me. Wife says she missed me at first but when she found out OM wasn't with his wife, the separation was easier. I kick Wife out of our house and immediately filed for D. I won't be plan b option. 

Since then, I have gone no contact (I also gave up pursuing several weeks earlier). Wife comes by every Sunday to get clothes for work week and to talk about finances/divorce and while she is home she asks how my week has been, etc like nothing is wrong. I can't believe this is the same wife who would eagerly wait for me to come home every day just 6-8 months ago. 

Wife wants to move where OM lives even though she has never been to that state, knows no one but OM there, has never lived outside our city, might lose her job and would be leaving all friends and family. 

Wife's entire family is against her decision and has helped me through this. They think my Wife is lost and didn't give our M a chance. I did not ask for their help but they desperately want our M to work. Personal friends have called asking if she has a brain tumor because this is not the person they know. This A has almost zero chance of working and there is literally no one encouraging Wife to leave other than OM. Yet here we are. Everyone I tell is stunned that Wife would have an A. It was so out of character for her. She is so distant and uncaring now. We have been together over 9 years and it's like it meant nothing. For someone so obsessed with me, I can't believe our lack of communication doesn't bother her at some level. 

Looking back, I can't believe I have put up with all this over the past 3 months. I foresee my Wife returning in the future but I don't know if I would even want her back. Filing for divorce did not snap her out of it. I have lost 20 lbs and am in the best shape I've been in 15 years. Anything else I should be doing? Any words of encouragement? I'd be lying if I said I don't miss her everyday still.


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## phillybeffandswiss

It hurts because you haven't detached and you are waiting for a glimmer of hope and their relationship to fail. She is already lost to you. You need to move on. I will NEVER understand this urge to save a failed marriage. She had an affair, had the gal to text OM in front of you, wont listen to you or her family and wants to leave. Oh and apparently, she wasn't as obsessed as you believe. I'm thinking you were up on that pedestal to her and never noticed any warning signs. Yes, I find your use of the word "obsessed" troublesome.

Move on.


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## manwithnoname

You were too wishy washy with your handling of the situation up to the end. She's already chosen the OM, you're not even plan B at this point unless she returns in the future. Be done with her.


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## *Deidre*

I'd let her go, and move on. Work on healing yourself. I'm sorry you find yourself here, you didn't do anything wrong. I'd not compete with another man if I were you, and what they BOTH will find out after their divorces go through, is that all they ended up with...are two cheaters.  If they'll cheat with each other, some day...they will cheat on each other. This is why the marriage rate for people who have relationships from affairs is pretty low. Because nothing good can come from an affair. ''I met my soul mate,'' bla bla...no, you cheated, and met another cheater. lol

Prayers that you stay strong, but for your own sake, let this go...and move on.


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## TDSC60

Of course you miss her. You love your wife and are still in shock over what she has done.

You have to do a few things. 

1 Mourn the death of your marriage - your wife killed it with her affair. 
2. Mourn the death of your wife - the wife you had is now gone, replaced by this new woman who cares nothing for you and your feelings.
3. Accept that your wife has made her decision. Wish her luck with her new life without you and let her go do what makes her happy, even if you don't think it will work. She is not your concern or problem any longer.
4. Stop talking to her about what you are doing during the week - not her business any longer.
5. Move forward with your life without her.


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## Clemson

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It hurts because you haven't detached and you are waiting for a glimmer of hope and their relationship to fail. She is already lost to you. You need to move on. I will NEVER understand this urge to save a failed marriage. She had an affair, had the gal to text OM in front of you, wont listen to you or her family and wants to leave. Oh and apparently, she wasn't as obsessed as you believe. I'm thinking you were up on that pedestal to her and never noticed any warning signs. Yes, I find your use of the word "obsessed" troublesome.
> 
> Move on.


All good points. 90% of the time I do okay and manage without her. It's the only 10% that suck.


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## Clemson

TDSC60 said:


> Of course you miss her. You love your wife and are still in shock over what she has done.
> 
> You have to do a few things.
> 
> 1 Mourn the death of your marriage - your wife killed it with her affair.
> 2. Mourn the death of your wife - the wife you had is now gone, replaced by this new woman who cares nothing for you and your feelings.
> 3. Accept that your wife has made her decision. Wish her luck with her new life without you and let her go do what makes her happy, even if you don't think it will work. She is not your concern or problem any longer.
> 4. Stop talking to her about what you are doing during the week - not her business any longer.
> 5. Move forward with your life without her.


Thanks for the encouragement. This is all true.


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## TDSC60

Where is your wife living? Why do you allow her to keep clothing at your house which causes you to see her weekly?


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## EunuchMonk

@Clemson, did you notice that the same way she obsessed over you in the beginning, is the same way she is obsessing with this other man? I see a pattern. Your wife has a super co-dependent personality.

The time you two spent working on your career might have played a role in the affair. But that isn't your fault. This is life; sometimes people get busy with life. Not an excuse for her to cheat. She took the easiest way and did not fight for the marriage. She did not express that she was unhappy. She says she didn't know she was unhappy? So she is immature and not self-aware.

She looks like she has moved on. You are going to have to do the same. Don't drink alcohol. Get plenty of sleep. Maybe start exercising. Go 180 on her. Since you two have no children that makes it easier to focus on being a better you.

Godspeed, OP.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Clemson said:


> All good points. 90% of the time I do okay and manage without her. It's the only 10% that suck.


Good to hear. It'll go away, but there will always be a small part that wants your old life back. As long as you know what it is you'll be fine. Just get yourself to a place of indifference because if it fails, she will suddenly have regret. This will be when your toughest test will begin, if you haven't moved forward.


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## GusPolinski

Let her go.

No kids? That's awesome.

Double down on NC and 180.

Put her things in storage and send her the key. Better yet, take it all to her parents' house and leave it there.

Cut her out of your life to the absolute furthest degree possible: unfriend and block her on social media, change email addresses, phone numbers, etc. Whatever you have to do.

In the future, stay away from women in their early 20's.


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## Evinrude58

You have been given the most difficult for you to accept, and the most correct advice possible.

As a man who went through a similar situation and seen others firsthand, I can tell you this. What happened was totally out of your control. This happens sometimes even to "perfect" husbands. You sound like a far better husband than I.

The key to your healing, I have discovered, is acceptance.
You can get closer to acceptance by doing everything you can to move forward in your life without her. Start a new hobby, get a second job, start dating. 
Get your mind off her. Fix it, as hard as it will be, so that she has zero contact with you. I know how impossibly hard it is, but seeing it talking to her, even for an instant, will set you. Ack days. No contact. Zero. Accept that she is gone. Once a woman falls out of love with you, it will never truly return.

I'm so sorry.
The good news is, regardless of how differently you feel right now, you- as a good, loyal man--- are a hot item, and it will be easier than you think to find a new woman who actually lives you.

Your wife is a low-character trollip.
Accept it and move on. Do NOT look back.


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## Clemson

TDSC60 said:


> Where is your wife living? Why do you allow her to keep clothing at your house which causes you to see her weekly?


She is living with her parents until a lease on an apartment starts next week.


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## Clemson

EunuchMonk said:


> @Clemson, did you notice that the same way she obsessed over you in the beginning, is the same way she is obsessing with this other man? I see a pattern. Your wife has a super co-dependent personality.
> 
> The time you two spent working on your career might have played a role in the affair. But that isn't your fault. This is life; sometimes people get busy with life. Not an excuse for her to cheat. She took the easiest way and did not fight for the marriage. She did not express that she was unhappy. She says she didn't know she was unhappy? So she is immature and not self-aware.
> 
> She looks like she has moved on. You are going to have to do the same. Don't drink alcohol. Get plenty of sleep. Maybe start exercising. Go 180 on her. Since you two have no children that makes it easier to focus on being a better you.
> 
> Godspeed, OP.


Thanks Monk. You are not the first person to believe she is super codependent and is now obsessed with this new guy. At the very beginning I asked what the OM's flaws were and she said he has no negative flaws. I'm definitely seeing the same pattern. She is obsessing over a new person like she did with me at the beginning.


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## *Deidre*

GusPolinski said:


> Cut her out of your life to the absolute furthest degree possible: unfriend and block her on social media, change email addresses, phone numbers, etc. Whatever you have to do.


This x 1000

It might seem like it's a mean thing to do, but it's not. It's so you can heal without being distracted by her mood changes, and her ''I miss you'' texts because the OM is being a jerk on a particular day and she needs your attention to make her feel better. If you keep communication open, that will definitely happen. Nearly every story I've heard when a cheating spouse leaves, they always contact their exes with ''I miss you'' texts, usually because the new relationship isn't working out as they'd hoped. So, to spare yourself that, I'd go no contact, because that is the only way to heal.


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## Clemson

Evinrude58 said:


> You have been given the most difficult for you to accept, and the most correct advice possible.
> 
> As a man who went through a similar situation and seen others firsthand, I can tell you this. What happened was totally out of your control. This happens sometimes even to "perfect" husbands. You sound like a far better husband than I.
> 
> The key to your healing, I have discovered, is acceptance.
> You can get closer to acceptance by doing everything you can to move forward in your life without her. Start a new hobby, get a second job, start dating.
> Get your mind off her. Fix it, as hard as it will be, so that she has zero contact with you. I know how impossibly hard it is, but seeing it talking to her, even for an instant, will set you. Ack days. No contact. Zero. Accept that she is gone. Once a woman falls out of love with you, it will never truly return.
> 
> I'm so sorry.
> The good news is, regardless of how differently you feel right now, you- as a good, loyal man--- are a hot item, and it will be easier than you think to find a new woman who actually lives you.
> 
> Your wife is a low-character trollip.
> Accept it and move on. Do NOT look back.


Thanks for the encouragement. Even my wife's sister told my wife that I am a good husband and will make some lucky woman very happy and she is making a mistake. Her other sister is devastated with this divorce and her husband won't talk to my wife anymore. My wife's dad emailed me last week that I am a good man and don't ever forget that. I really was a good husband. We were going to try to have kids in the next couple years and now that is dashed. I'm only 41 but most of my friends are in the young kid stage and don't have time to hang out. At times it has been lonely but I have really worked on bettering myself and my family has been very supportive although they do not live in the area. She is moving all her stuff out next week and then I won't have to see her anymore. The no contact has made it easier. At times I think about how great life was and how our dreams are no longer possible. I am going to start dating in the next couple weeks and I think once I meet someone I have any attraction to it will be helpful.


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## Marc878

For you and your future get all of her stuff out now. Don't allow the trickling back and forth.

The 180 or no contact works if you can abide by it. Cut out all the chit/chat engagement. All that does is drag you back down.

Only text or email business or divorced matters only. NEVER answer a phone call directly let it go to voicemail. Anything not divorce or business ignore. No response needed.

If you can't do this you'll just linger in limbo longer than necessary.

Join a gym start working out or walk jog. It'll keep you distracted and help clear your mind.

You didn't cause this so no guilt trips. It avails you nothing.

Sorry you're here


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## Marc878

Be carefull of rebound relationships. They can be very hurtfull and destructive.

You are too vulnerable to be dating at this time.


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## lifeistooshort

I think the issue that's not being addressed here is that your wife was 23 when you met her, and frankly 23 and 32 a a very large difference at that point in life.

You'd lived your 20's, your wife had not. Forget about the "old soul" stuff, your wife wasn't ready to be married. I mean, were you at 23? Clearly not because you waited until you were in your 30's.

Your wife isn't marriage material right now. Might she be some day? Maybe, but at this point a lot of damage has been done by her infidelities, so maybe best for you to move on and find someone a little older that's ready to be married.


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## Clemson

lifeistooshort said:


> I think the issue that's not being addressed here is that your wife was 23 when you met her, and frankly 23 and 32 a a very large difference at that point in life.
> 
> You'd lived your 20's, your wife had not. Forget about the "old soul" stuff, your wife wasn't ready to be married. I mean, were you at 23? Clearly not because you waited until you were in your 30's.
> 
> Your wife isn't marriage material right now. Might she be some day? Maybe, but at this point a lot of damage has been done by her infidelities, so maybe best for you to move on and find someone a little older that's ready to be married.


Fair point about our age difference. That was why we dated 3 years before we got married. So she was 26 when we got married. I wanted to make sure she was in this for real and it wasn't just a honeymoon phase. I know 23 was young but women have been getting married at that age (including my own mother) and younger for a long time. She had a family who strongly valued marriage and was a good girl. It all made me think that her age wasn't a major factor. Apparently I may have been wrong.


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## Evinrude58

lifeistooshort said:


> I think the issue that's not being addressed here is that your wife was 23 when you met her, and frankly 23 and 32 a a very large difference at that point in life.
> 
> You'd lived your 20's, your wife had not. Forget about the "old soul" stuff, your wife wasn't ready to be married. I mean, were you at 23? Clearly not because you waited until you were in your 30's.
> 
> Your wife isn't marriage material right now. Might she be some day? Maybe, but at this point a lot of damage has been done by her infidelities, so maybe best for you to move on and find someone a little older that's ready to be married.


I totally 100% disagree with you. Always the mans fault lts. This is clearly from what has been described, a disloyal, ungrateful, low class woman.
She doesn't get a pass on cheating and abandonment just because she married young.


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## GusPolinski

Clemson said:


> She is living with her parents until a lease on an apartment starts next week.


Pack up all of her crap and dump it on her parents' lawn.


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## lifeistooshort

Clemson said:


> Fair point about our age difference. That was why we dated 3 years before we got married. I wanted to make sure she was in this for real and it wasn't just a honeymoon phase. I know 23 was young but women have been getting married at that age (including my own mother) and younger for a long time. She had a family who strongly valued marriage and was a good girl. It all made me think that her age wasn't a major factor. Apparently I may have been wrong.


That's true, that women had married younger.

But so had men, yet you waited. And marriage also used to be a business deal, so it's not a good comparison. Older men could buy a young wife, but she'd still have her eye on young men so she had to be watched.

It's good your waited several years, and maybe she thought she was ready. But when the reality of married life hit she wasn't. 

Does "good girl" mean she has limited experience? If so there's part of your answer. She was probably shielded from a lot of stuff....but once she got into the workplace and was no longer shielded she couldn't handle herself.

That's what makes her not ready. 

How much experience did you have and how much did she have? I'm guessing there's a big difference.

For the record, my hb is 19 years older (TAM regulars know that) so it's not like I have issues with age differences. But having been in this for almost 12 years I think the issue isn't so much age as differences in baggage.....and when one partner is in the early 20's that difference tends to be quite large and hard to deal with.


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## honcho

The weekend visits need to stop. Tell her to arrange to get all her stuff out of the house at one time and be done with it. She is doing this because she wants to keep you attached and she's keeping her options open. She wants her new life, get her junk out and let her live it. 

My crazy ex played the weekend pickup a few items each week game for a while, drove me nuts and created a pressure cooker of a situation watching my "old" life being slowly dismantled one box at a time. I finally just packed everything for her and told her to come get it. Then of course the stuff sat in the garage for months. The visits aren't about the items, it's keeping you attached. 

Right now she is firmly entrenched in the magic wonderland of affairland. The more everyone tells her it's wrong the more it reinforce's the "against all odds", meant to be with Mr perfect. It's how they think and what they do convincing themselves. Leave her in affairland, cut your deal and divorce her quickly. It's the best move for you because once affairland turns into real life it's rarely a magical place, then the divorce gets harder and more costly.


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## allicantake

I'm in no place to give you advice on your situation, but I will tell you this from my experience. Listen to the advice you're given about not being a backup or second choice. Cut out the contact with her unless it's absolutely required. If you don't, you'll end up where I am.....5+ years after the affair, 3 years post divorce, still caught up in the web of keeping contact with an XW who lives with her affair partner. Nothing good comes from that....I'm a poster child trying to move on now when I should have been long ago.


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## browser

Dude she chose another guy over you.

It's over. That's a fact. 

What you do with that fact is up to you. I know what I'd do and it wouldn't be posting here asking questions that you already know the answers to.


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## GusPolinski

honcho said:


> The weekend visits need to stop. Tell her to arrange to get all her stuff out of the house at one time and be done with it. *She is doing this because she wants to keep you attached and she's keeping her options open. She wants her new life, get her junk out and let her live it.*
> 
> My crazy ex played the weekend pickup a few items each week game for a while, drove me nuts and created a pressure cooker of a situation watching my "old" life being slowly dismantled one box at a time. I finally just packed everything for her and told her to come get it. Then of course the stuff sat in the garage for months. *The visits aren't about the items, it's keeping you attached.*
> 
> Right now she is firmly entrenched in the magic wonderland of affairland. The more everyone tells her it's wrong the more it reinforce's the "against all odds", meant to be with Mr perfect. It's how they think and what they do convincing themselves. Leave her in affairland, cut your deal and divorce her quickly. It's the best move for you because once affairland turns into real life it's rarely a magical place, then the divorce gets harder and more costly.


Exactly correct.


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## Evinrude58

Acceptance, grief, anger, detachment, and in the end--- indifference. 

Age difference when married? Don't let anyone put this on you.
You did your part as best you could. In the end, you found out she was NOT what you thought she was. Accept it and move forward. Trying to figure out why she did it is a complete waste of time, unless you like pain shopping.


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## EunuchMonk

Evinrude58 said:


> I totally 100% disagree with you. Always the mans fault lts. This is clearly from what has been described, a disloyal, ungrateful, low class woman.
> She doesn't get a pass on cheating and abandonment just because she married young.


True. Many marry young and are ready to settle down. Age has nothing to do with it. She is co-dependent and might still be at 40. Co-dependency doesn't have age-restrictions.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Clemson said:


> She is living with her parents until a lease on an apartment starts next week.





Clemson said:


> She is moving all her stuff out next week and then I won't have to see her anymore. The no contact has made it easier.


Pack up ALL her stuff and dump it off at her parents' home. Yes, you shouldn't have to, and yes it will hurt to do so, but it's like peeling the bandaid off quickly instead of slowly. Seeing it at your home, and having her come over regularly to get it piecemeal is keeping you stuck in pain.



Clemson said:


> Thanks Monk. You are not the first person to believe she is super codependent and is now obsessed with this new guy. At the very beginning I asked what the OM's flaws were and she said he has no negative flaws. I'm definitely seeing the same pattern. She is obsessing over a new person like she did with me at the beginning.


From what you describe, she seems to be the type of person driven more by emotion than by logic. She is held fast by limerence, new relationship hormones, whatever you like to call it, which she believes is love. She's now experienced it with the new guy, hasn't felt it for you in many years, and thinks that means this new relationship is meant to be. The type of person who is controlled by their hormones like that isn't a good long term relationship partner.

She may realize she made a mistake someday, and wish she had stayed with you, and probably even try to get back with you, especially if the new guy tires of her or things get tough or the limerence runs out. However she will always be the type of person who would give in to temptation when another new guy provides that limerence feeling again.



Clemson said:


> We were going to try to have kids in the next couple years and now that is dashed. I'm only 41 but most of my friends are in the young kid stage and don't have time to hang out. At times it has been lonely but I have really worked on bettering myself and my family has been very supportive although they do not live in the area. At times I think about how great life was and how our dreams are no longer possible.


You are mourning the loss of the future you had planned as well as the loss of the honourable woman you thought you had married, which turns out not to be a reality. It's going to take time to recover your equilibrium but you will remain a good man and potential husband and father.



Clemson said:


> I am going to start dating in the next couple weeks and I think once I meet someone I have any attraction to it will be helpful.


I would advise waiting a bit, unless you want to just play around and have one night stands. Actively dating will just end up hurting you, and whichever woman you pick. Get your head on straight as a single man before looking for new relationships. But brief encounters with similarly minded woman could do you a world of good, depending on the kind of guy you are.



Evinrude58 said:


> This is clearly from what has been described, a disloyal, ungrateful, low class woman.
> She doesn't get a pass on cheating and abandonment just because she married young.


Nobody gets a pass on cheating. She may have hidden it well before, or maybe it never came up because opportunity never arose, but she has always been, and very likely always will be, the type of person who thinks of herself first, acts on her feelings without thinking of the repercussions, and puts her own sexual satisfaction ahead of her integrity and the happiness of the people around her.


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## lifeistooshort

Evinrude58 said:


> I totally 100% disagree with you. Always the mans fault lts. This is clearly from what has been described, a disloyal, ungrateful, low class woman.
> She doesn't get a pass on cheating and abandonment just because she married young.


You're entitled to your opinion.

But I'd ask that you stop projecting, nowhere did I say it's his fault.

I said that at 32 years old he found a 23 year old who wasn't ready to be married. I also said very clearly that her choices have done a lot of damage.

You think maturity doesn't factor into this? No problem.....find yourself a 20 year old with limited life experience and see how that works out for you. 

One needs to examine their picker after a relationship fails. How's your picker these days?

Please do not turn this into a gender war.


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## EunuchMonk

@Clemson, you just need to watch out for co-dependency and such emotional hang-ups. You can get yourself another 26 year old and it could work. Majority of affairs in my country happen in the 40s. So, so much for maturity. Age is not always wisdom. You need to work on yourself. That's the main thing that will help you be better able to weed out the unsuitable ones. You were just nine years older than her. That is not that unusual.

Keep on doing what you are doing. It sounds like you are headed in the right direction.


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## lifeistooshort

EunuchMonk said:


> @Clemson, you just need to watch out for co-dependency and such emotional hang-ups. You can get yourself another 26 year old and it could work. Majority of affairs in my country happen in the 40s. So, so much for maturity. Age is not always wisdom. You need to work on yourself. That's the main thing that will help you be better able to weed out the unsuitable ones. You were just nine years older than her. That is not that unusual.
> 
> Keep on doing what you are doing. It sounds like you are headed in the right direction.


So you think that an established 35 year old is the same risk as a sheltered 18 year old?

Serious question. 

I don't. Sure people can cheat at any age, but if age isn't a factor why is the divorce rate so much higher for those under 25?


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## TX-SC

Honestly, it sounds like your wife is in perpetual teenager mode. She fawned over you when you dated, then as soon as the newness wore off and reality set in, she found someone new for her admiration. Reality will come crushing down on her eventually, but you will have moved on by then anyway. You are on the right track. D as soon as possible and move on. I don't see where you have kids, so there's nothing holding you back. 

Pack up whatever remains of her clothes and tell her to come get them. Then go completely NC and tell her to not come back again. This is for good and there is no coming back. Get the D finalized and move on. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## TDSC60

Do you live in Clemson?

I went to college there - a long time ago.


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## Clemson

lifeistooshort said:


> That's true, that women had married younger.
> 
> But so had men, yet you waited. And marriage also used to be a business deal, so it's not a good comparison. Older men could buy a young wife, but she'd still have her eye on young men so she had to be watched.
> 
> It's good your waited several years, and maybe she thought she was ready. But when the reality of married life hit she wasn't.
> 
> Does "good girl" mean she has limited experience? If so there's part of your answer. She was probably shielded from a lot of stuff....but once she got into the workplace and was no longer shielded she couldn't handle herself.
> 
> That's what makes her not ready.
> 
> How much experience did you have and how much did she have? I'm guessing there's a big difference.
> 
> For the record, my hb is 19 years older (TAM regulars know that) so it's not like I have issues with age differences. But having been in this for almost 12 years I think the issue isn't so much age as differences in baggage.....and when one partner is in the early 20's that difference tends to be quite large and hard to deal with.


I definitely had more experience than her. I was only the 2nd guy she ever went on more than 1 date with. Even on high school she was rather unpopular and awkward. She became gorgeous in college. By good girl, I mean very sweet, loving and loyal. When we went out to bars and things she never flirted with anyone and she never wanted to go out with her friends unless I came. When she did go out without me, she couldn't wait to come back home. All our friends are in shock since they didn't see any indication she would cheat. The age thing makes sense except we've been together 9 years and only. Why when she is 32 is it suddenly a problem? She has worked for the same company the last 7 years.


----------



## Clemson

honcho said:


> The weekend visits need to stop. Tell her to arrange to get all her stuff out of the house at one time and be done with it. She is doing this because she wants to keep you attached and she's keeping her options open. She wants her new life, get her junk out and let her live it.
> 
> My crazy ex played the weekend pickup a few items each week game for a while, drove me nuts and created a pressure cooker of a situation watching my "old" life being slowly dismantled one box at a time. I finally just packed everything for her and told her to come get it. Then of course the stuff sat in the garage for months. The visits aren't about the items, it's keeping you attached.
> 
> Right now she is firmly entrenched in the magic wonderland of affairland. The more everyone tells her it's wrong the more it reinforce's the "against all odds", meant to be with Mr perfect. It's how they think and what they do convincing themselves. Leave her in affairland, cut your deal and divorce her quickly. It's the best move for you because once affairland turns into real life it's rarely a magical place, then the divorce gets harder and more costly.


Lots of good thoughts here. My mom always keeps questioning why she needs to come by the house to get clothes for the week and doesn't just get them all. The next time she comes will be the last. She is picking up all her clothes plus furniture to furnish her new 1 bed apartment. I am keeping the house. I am trying to get this divorce wrapped up while she is in la la land and she is agreeable. Part of the reason I haven't just boxed all her crap and thrown it in the yard or something. Right now my financial split in the divorce is advantageous for me because we added a clause that I can't tattle to her employer about her and OM which would probably get them fired.


----------



## TDSC60

Clemson said:


> I definitely had more experience than her. I was only the 2nd guy she ever went on more than 1 date with. Even on high school she was rather unpopular and awkward. She became gorgeous in college. By good girl, I mean very sweet, loving and loyal. When we went out to bars and things she never flirted with anyone and she never wanted to go out with her friends unless I came. When she did go out without me, she couldn't wait to come back home. All our friends are in shock since they didn't see any indication she would cheat. The age thing makes sense except we've been together 9 years and only. Ow when she is 32 it is a problem? She has worked for the same company the last 7 years.


I don't think it is age alone. Seems to me that she traveled on her own with no one she knew around and let herself get out of "good girl" zone since their was no one there to see. Then it got out of hand. This probably would have happened anyway and is more of an indication of her broken character than something related to age.

Count yourself lucky that this happened before any kids came along.


----------



## Clemson

browser said:


> Dude she chose another guy over you.
> 
> It's over. That's a fact.
> 
> What you do with that fact is up to you. I know what I'd do and it wouldn't be posting here asking questions that you already know the answers to.


I hear you. I'm just grieving. I know my marriage and wife I loved are dead. Anyone who knows me would not have believed I lasted this long. In fact, when my wife told her sister she was disclosing the A to me, her sister said I'd throw her out of the house and she could stay there. I don't think anyone knows how they would react until it happens to them. I appreciate the tough love comments though. My dad just isn't strong enough guy to give me these kinds of pep talks.


----------



## Clemson

TDSC60 said:


> Do you live in Clemson?
> 
> I went to college there - a long time ago.


Went to Clemson in mid 90's but now live in the Midwest.


----------



## TDSC60

Clemson said:


> Went to Clemson in mid 90's but now live in the Midwest.


Class of 72


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I found this board and thought I would start a thread to see if I can get thoughts from others. My Wife is probably too far gone.
> 
> Little background on marriage. My Wife and I had a great Marriage and wonderful life. We met when she was 23 and I was 32. Wife is an old soul who likes to sew and cook and comes from a great family where church and family are the focus. She was a late bloomer and really didn't become attractive until college. She is the youngest of 3 daughters. Wife was sweet, loving, loyal and very attractive - perfect wife material. Wife and I were married in 2010 after dating for 3 years. Wife dated one guy all through college before breaking up with him and then meeting me. From the beginning, she was obsessed with me and would not even go out with her friends unless I came too.
> 
> We spent all our time together and genuinely loved being with each other. Without a doubt, we were each other’s best friends. Wife was definitely co-dependent on me and I was with her to some extent. I am an attorney and Wife works in insurance and we have no kids so we traveled extensively and generally lived a fun life. My wife complained about very little and never voiced any problems in our marriage. Wife always seemed happy and we almost never fought.
> 
> In April 2016, I started a new law firm which began taking up a lot of my time. Wife also started a new job that required her to travel. We seemed to be acclimating fine to this different/stressful time in our lives. I was working particularly long hours in September and October.
> 
> In November 2016, I come home from work to find Wife crying on our couch. Wife says she met a male co-worker and they had an affair during 3 week-long business trips (which happened during the period of my birthday and our anniversary). Apparently they really connected and had great passion. Wife says she was lonely and didn't know she was unhappy until she met OM. OM is 35 years old and married with three small children and lives in another state 1000 miles away. I was devastated and never suspected A. Wife tells me she loves me and chooses me over the OM. Wife has deep feelings for OM. Wife sends a no contact text to OM the next day and shows it to me. Wife seemed genuinely remorseful. Wife's two sisters tell me they too had no idea she was in trouble despite talking to her almost everyday. Her entire family is saddened by Wife's actions.
> 
> Two weeks later we are boarding a plane for a previously scheduled trip. I look over and see Wife texting OM and I almost have a panic attack. OM has told his wife of the affair but can’t stop thinking of my wife. My wife says OM reached out to her the night before and said “thinking of you”. Wife apologizes and I take her phone and text OM to never contact my wife or I will tell their employer about what is going on. We then start couples counseling. Wife tells counselor she wants to make our Marriage work.
> 
> Another two weeks later though, my wife gives me the ILYBNILWY line. I’m stunned. When I challenge her that she barely knows OM she says she's known him "101 days" like a teenager. I'm really concerned I'm losing her. But over the remainder of December, things are actually pretty good as we work on us. On New Year's Eve, we are at a party and Wife says she is thinking of OM. I lose it and tell her I'm done with the marriage.
> 
> The next day, Wife is sobbing and tells me she can't live without me, she wishes A never happened and she will quit her job if it means she keeps me. In late January 2017, we go out of town and one night Wife breaks down crying and says she can't get over OM. My heart is broken.
> 
> Once back home, Wife tells me she wants to separate so she can have time to think. I tell Wife we can do in-home separation on one condition: that she not contact OM. Wife refuses and I make her leave our home. Two days later Wife contacts OM and finds out he has been kicked out of his house by his wife and lives with his brother now. OM is interested in continuing the A. On February 12, I meet WW and she tells me she is choosing OM over me. Wife says she missed me at first but when she found out OM wasn't with his wife, the separation was easier. I kick Wife out of our house and immediately filed for D. I won't be plan b option.
> 
> Since then, I have gone no contact (I also gave up pursuing several weeks earlier). Wife comes by every Sunday to get clothes for work week and to talk about finances/divorce and while she is home she asks how my week has been, etc like nothing is wrong. I can't believe this is the same wife who would eagerly wait for me to come home every day just 6-8 months ago.
> 
> Wife wants to move where OM lives even though she has never been to that state, knows no one but OM there, has never lived outside our city, might lose her job and would be leaving all friends and family.
> 
> Wife's entire family is against her decision and has helped me through this. They think my Wife is lost and didn't give our M a chance. I did not ask for their help but they desperately want our M to work. Personal friends have called asking if she has a brain tumor because this is not the person they know. This A has almost zero chance of working and there is literally no one encouraging Wife to leave other than OM. Yet here we are. Everyone I tell is stunned that Wife would have an A. It was so out of character for her. She is so distant and uncaring now. We have been together over 9 years and it's like it meant nothing. For someone so obsessed with me, I can't believe our lack of communication doesn't bother her at some level.
> 
> Looking back, I can't believe I have put up with all this over the past 3 months. I foresee my Wife returning in the future but I don't know if I would even want her back. Filing for divorce did not snap her out of it. I have lost 20 lbs and am in the best shape I've been in 15 years. Anything else I should be doing? Any words of encouragement? I'd be lying if I said I don't miss her everyday still.


Move on sadly you picked a lemon. She will learn the hard way. You are a lawyer probably make good money sounds like you are still young. There is better out there. Try to use her desire to be with the other man to get the best deal for yourself. See her for what he is not what you thought she was. She may even be bipolar, but you can't fix it. Be happy it happened when you were still in your prime.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

It took me a couple years to grieve my marriage, wife and future. And we're still together with no infidelity. For me it was a cancer diagnosis so I had to grieve my losses. At this point... I am indifferent to life. I am happier than during the grieving but a lot of the spark in life is gone. Maybe it's just reality that we don't have a future - only a present and MAYBE that will extend for a period of time. Sounds bad but it's not. Just kind of flat. Ha ha lost my point - yeah you can let go too. Mourn your losses. You'll get to acceptance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Clemson

EunuchMonk said:


> @Clemson, you just need to watch out for co-dependency and such emotional hang-ups. You can get yourself another 26 year old and it could work. Majority of affairs in my country happen in the 40s. So, so much for maturity. Age is not always wisdom. You need to work on yourself. That's the main thing that will help you be better able to weed out the unsuitable ones. You were just nine years older than her. That is not that unusual.
> 
> Keep on doing what you are doing. It sounds like you are headed in the right direction.


Good thoughts. My D should become final by April or May. I am leary of dating before the D is final for a couple reasons. I don't want my wife getting pissed off and then challenging our agreed financial split. Right now we are doing this without lawyers (I don't do divorce law). Plus I don't want any serious relationship until I am truly single since that is a bad foundation I think.  I am open to brief encounters with women and think that might be better at this time. I'm a pretty fun and good dude and women like me. People are already trying to set me up with attractive women. I've just been out of the dating game for a while and my wife really ticked every box I had for a wife plus our history.. My confidence has not been hurt by all this surprisingly. I'm just depressed at times about lost dreams and future. really appreciate everyone's thoughts. I am glad we didn't have kids. We had planned to start IVF in January so I dodged a bullet.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Clemson said:


> I definitely had more experience than her. I was only the 2nd guy she ever went on more than 1 date with. Even on high school she was rather unpopular and awkward. She became gorgeous in college. By good girl, I mean very sweet, loving and loyal. When we went out to bars and things she never flirted with anyone and she never wanted to go out with her friends unless I came. When she did go out without me, she couldn't wait to come back home. All our friends are in shock since they didn't see any indication she would cheat. The age thing makes sense except we've been together 9 years and only. Why when she is 32 is it suddenly a problem? She has worked for the same company the last 7 years.


I'm sorry, I totally missed the part where she's now 32. That does change things a bit.....the lack of experience is probably still an issue but the fact that she's doing this at 32 suggests she really isn't marriage material.

At least not for you. She didn't get much attention before you and spent most of her 20's with you....she's now thinking about what she missed. We see this with guys who married with limited experience too.....they get 15 years in and start wondering what they missed.

But the fact that she acted on it says she's not wife material.

Are you sure this isn't just the first time you know about?


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> We were going to try to have kids in the next couple years and now that is dashed. I'm only 41 but most of my friends are in the young kid stage and don't have time to hang out.


Get down on your knees and thank God that didn't happen before you discovered you wives character. The remainder of your ex-wife's life is going to be very hard and unstable. She is broken. Your kids will not have to suffer through that. 41 is a young man in his prime, and being a lawyer with your own practice you are going to meet very many women interested in you. 

My two cents, work on being more assertive. The first time your wife told you about having and affair you should have been done. She should have known already that there is no wiggle room to test another guy out. One whiff and and you should be gone. Scorched earth. It should be, if she doesn't know she is not paying attention. Your spouse should be scared as hell to even think about cheating. They should not be thinking well my husband is a nice guy he will get over it if the guy doesn't end up being better. They should be thinking my life will absolutely be in ruins if I do this. My spouse is not the safe person to disrespect. They still may cheat but it will be a lot harder to start knowing that you will be out on your ass same day. Even if they do cheat that reaction to it will make you better off. 

What I find from reading on here and other places is too many men are way to lax about this stuff. They think of their wives like children, whom the can discipline and move on. The wives behave like spoiled children and push boundaries constantly, eventually cheating. Don't have boundaries I have bright flashing lines that crossing means immediate death of the marriage. Only accept mature behavior from an adult relationship. If they act like kids dump them immediately, ghost them. Who wants to raising an adult. Life is way too short. There are normal adults out there. THEY ARE SO MUCH BETTER. Adults that act like children are worthless in relationships. 

Finally get comfortable with being alone, this will give you the most leverage in any relationship. Then you won't operate out of fear.


----------



## sokillme

*Deidre* said:


> It might seem like it's a mean thing to do, but it's not.


Be mean, the woman cheated on you. You owe her nothing. It will be a good head-start on what I talked about in my other posts. Get used to giving people who wrong you hard painful consequences then most will understand that wronging you is a bad choice. Don't worry people who live honorably will not fear being friends or having a relationship with you. They will just respect that you don't put up with nonsense. Because they will be the same.


----------



## TDSC60

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm sorry, I totally missed the part where she's now 32. That does change things a bit.....the lack of experience is probably still an issue but the fact that she's doing this at 32 suggests she really isn't marriage material.
> 
> At least not for you. She didn't get much attention before you and spent most of her 20's with you....she's now thinking about what she missed. We see this with guys who married with limited experience too.....they get 15 years in and start wondering what they missed.
> 
> But the fact that she acted on it says she's not wife material.
> 
> Are you sure this isn't just the first time you know about?


Unfortunately he can never be absolutely sure this is the first time she has cheated. She fell hard for OM and confessed this time.

But does it really matter in the long run if it was the first or fifth? I don't think so.

He is well rid of her.


----------



## sokillme

lifeistooshort said:


> That's true, that women had married younger.
> 
> But so had men, yet you waited. And marriage also used to be a business deal, so it's not a good comparison. Older men could buy a young wife, but she'd still have her eye on young men so she had to be watched.
> 
> It's good your waited several years, and maybe she thought she was ready. But when the reality of married life hit she wasn't.
> 
> Does "good girl" mean she has limited experience? If so there's part of your answer. She was probably shielded from a lot of stuff....but once she got into the workplace and was no longer shielded she couldn't handle herself.
> 
> That's what makes her not ready.
> 
> How much experience did you have and how much did she have? I'm guessing there's a big difference.
> 
> For the record, my hb is 19 years older (TAM regulars know that) so it's not like I have issues with age differences. But having been in this for almost 12 years I think the issue isn't so much age as differences in baggage.....and when one partner is in the early 20's that difference tends to be quite large and hard to deal with.


She is just a bad choice. Age has nothing to do with it. Plenty of people get married young and don't cheat. If she had just left I might agree with you but her character is poor. Also it probably won't change. She will have a hard unstable life. This new relationship will just spiral (he is married and cheated on his wife and kids, a real dreamboat) and then it will be on to the next one. The quality of her choices will be less too. Maybe she was too young to understand that had a good man already, as all her family is telling her, but the chances of getting another one after already being married, and now late in life for having kids, are going to be slim. She is going to attract men who are not the settling down type or who have already had kids with someone else. Her loss. 

OP did nothing wrong. In the long run he is going to be better off. He can have kids with a better more mature, higher quality women. 

Sound like you are justifying her bad behavior because she was young when she got married which is bull ****. Are people adults at 23 or not?


----------



## SunCMars

You are right. She is super codependent.

But her loyalty depends on proximity. Who she is near.

The stuff that bound you to her was thread. Her thread was a very light Delft.

Fragile stuff. Any attentive man could have broken that bond.

Think of a friendly She-Cat. The kind that are in perpetual heat.

One stroke.....of her ego and she is yours.

You got the best years of her life. A crass statement, cruel but accurate.

She, at one time worshiped you. Now she has diluted her loving memories with another.

The second and more....coital memories are always less...fulfilling.

Your hearts, both of them were put in Escrow. Not to removed until Death do one partum.

She violated the Living Trust agreement. She violated said trust.

Her Assets in Place were illegally transferred to a third party.

A POSOM in good standing in the Thieves Guild.


----------



## Clemson

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm sorry, I totally missed the part where she's now 32. That does change things a bit.....the lack of experience is probably still an issue but the fact that she's doing this at 32 suggests she really isn't marriage material.
> 
> At least not for you. She didn't get much attention before you and spent most of her 20's with you....she's now thinking about what she missed. We see this with guys who married with limited experience too.....they get 15 years in and start wondering what they missed.
> 
> But the fact that she acted on it says she's not wife material.
> 
> Are you sure this isn't just the first time you know about?


First time I know that she cheated. Obviously could have been earlier but no indication of that. She told me about this recent A since I didn't suspect anything. Plus she is very close with her sisters (they talk everyday) and they would tell me. We have become very close during this ordeal. Her one sister in particular has new baby and she doesn't want my wife being around the baby because of this incident. 

I think my wife is very immature. She told our counselor she's never felt this way before like she does with OM. And OM has three little kids of his own and she is stepping into a hornets nest on that issue. I think she had a weak time in our marriage where she was bored and instead of talking to anyone about it, she acted selfishly to take care of herself. She has told me she has found her new self and her needs are no longer 2nd. I don't where that's coming from since I did not restrict her in any way and actually encouraged her in everything including work to be the best woman she could be.


----------



## Clemson

sokillme said:


> Get down on your knees and thank God that didn't happen before you discovered you wives character. The remainder of your ex-wife's life is going to be very hard and unstable. She is broken. Your kids will not have to suffer through that. 41 is a young man in his prime, and being a lawyer with your own practice you are going to meet very many women interested in you.
> 
> My two cents, work on being more assertive. The first time your wife told you about having and affair you should have been done. She should have known already that there is no wiggle room to test our another guy out. One whiff and and you should be gone. Scorched earth. It should be if she doesn't know she is not paying attention. Your spouse should be scared as hell to even think about cheating. They should not be thinking well my husband is a nice guy he will get over it if the guy doesn't end up being better. They should be thinking my life will absolutely be in ruins if I do this. My spouse is not the safe person to disrespect. They still may cheat but it will be a lot harder to start knowing that you will be out on your ass. Even if they do you are better off.
> 
> What I find from reading on here and other places is too many men are way to lax about this stuff. They think of their wives like children, whom the can discipline and move on. The wives behave like spoiled children and push boundaries constantly eventually cheating. Don't have boundaries I have bright flashing lines that crossing means immediate death of the marriage. Only accept mature behavior from an adult relationship. If they act like kids dump them immediately, ghost them. Who wants to raising an adult. Life is way too short. There are normal adults out there. THEY ARE SO MUCH BETTER. Adults that act like children are worthless in relationships.
> 
> Finally get comfortable with being alone, this will give you the most leverage in any relationship. Then you won't operate out of fear.


Your last comment is absolutely spot on. It's been so long for me to be alone that I need to get comfortable with it. My wife and I literally had never been apart for more than 4 days before she had a 2 week work trip in August and I think met OM for first time. 

She told me over the last few months I didn't pay her enough attention and I took her for granted. I was trying to get my new business going and she cheats on me. My law firm had crazy success the first year and it has been overshadowed by her. In hindsight, I think she is a very shallow person who constantly needs attention and validation to be happy.


----------



## honcho

Clemson said:


> First time I know that she cheated. Obviously could have been earlier but no indication of that. She told me about this recent A since I didn't suspect anything. Plus she is very close with her sisters (they talk everyday) and they would tell me. We have become very close during this ordeal. Her one sister in particular has new baby and she doesn't want my wife being around the baby because of this incident.
> 
> I think my wife is very immature. She told our counselor she's never felt this way before like she does with OM. And OM has three little kids of his own and she is stepping into a hornets nest on that issue. I think she had a weak time in our marriage where she was bored and instead of talking to anyone about it, she acted selfishly to take care of herself. She has told me she has found her new self and her needs are no longer 2nd. I don't where that's coming from since I did not restrict her in any way and actually encouraged her in everything including work to be the best woman she could be.


Take most of what she says with a grain of salt, she is in self serving selfish mode right now and most of what she says is just double talk and self justification. 

While his kids and family issues are a hornets nest your stbx is viewing them as a ready made family and she just step in and play mom. It's all part or the perfect world affair land brings.


----------



## Chaparral

How do you know the Posom has moved out and is getting a divorce? If your wife told you this it is probably a lie. 

Haven't you talked to his wife, she may not even know of the affair? It's rare for an a to have an affair and leave his wife and kids.

Why is she getting an apartment in your town?


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Your last comment is absolutely spot on. It's been so long for me to be alone that I need to get comfortable with it. My wife and I literally had never been apart for more than 4 days before she had a 2 week work trip in August and I think met OM for first time.
> 
> She told me over the last few months I didn't pay her enough attention and I took her for granted. I was trying to get my new business going and she cheats on me. My law firm had crazy success the first year and it has been overshadowed by her. In hindsight, I think she is a very shallow person who constantly needs attention and validation to be happy.


Dude you are SO better off. Again thank God you didn't have children with this person. You can just detach. Yes it's hard but it is still a short period in your life. You meet a class women who you have kids and a 40 year marriage to and this person will be just any other ex that you happened to marry. 

She isn't going to be better off. She had a faithful lawyer, it's like she hit the lotto, then traded in her ticket for a set of stake knives. This is why her family and anyone with any wisdom is in shock. She isn't very bright. Your kids will have a higher IQ and a better role model so be happy. 

The only thing that worries me in my opinion is the you would even consider taking her back once she cheated. Cheaters can smell this **** and they gravitate to people who will give them a pass. Then they proceed to push and push. Pack up here stuff, give it to her parents. Cut her off and never talk to her again. Then every women you date eventually tell them the story. She cheated, I dumped her, packed up her stuff and never talked to her again. That will give everyone an idea where you are coming from. Honest people will admire that, shady ones will be repulsed.


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## Evinrude58

Don't try to figure it out Clemson. you will never understand it. She probably doesn't. You will drive yourself Batpoo crazy with that stuff. I know because I did it too. Learn from the experience of others. You won't be miserable forever. One you accept she's gone, you'll get better at an exponential rate. 
Until then, you're going to be in this pain. That's what I'm trying to help you with. Accepting it.
Research this stuff. There isn't one damn thing you can do, or could have done about this. It just happens and we have to deal with it. It gets better.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

If it provides any consolation, my guess is that it's all going to come crashing down. The spoiled wife-child now expected to take care of her boyfriend's kids, without ever having been a mother. No comfort or affirmation from the adult male who's been providing it for years. The boyfriend with at least one foot still in his old marriage--possibly both feet. Affairland is a wonderful fantasy, but reality will rear its head at some point. At that point I expect she'll come crawling back to you. She's underestimated what an important fixture you were in her life. She's a foolish child. 

So get the documents squared away and remain civil and polite. I agree about stopping the weekend visits, but you should consider whether these visits are of some strategic advantage to you in the short-term. The friendlier you are up to the date of D, the more likely she is to be agreeable. 

Once the documents are final, go completely dark. She's no longer welcome at your house. No calls, no texts. Her stuff gets moved out asap, if you have to do it by hand. You can talk with her family, but do not tell them anything that they might want to pass along to her. She wants to be "friends" so that she won't feel so guilty. Your purpose in life is not to mitigate her guilt or discuss the past with her. Your purpose is to find yourself a wonderful mature woman who loves and respects you and only you. There are millions of women that can fit this bill.


----------



## Graywolf2

You are doing great. To better understand your wife search for the TED talk "why we cheat why we love" by Helen Fisher


----------



## Clemson

Chaparral said:


> How do you know the Posom has moved out and is getting a divorce? If your wife told you this it is probably a lie.
> 
> Haven't you talked to his wife, she may not even know of the affair? It's rare for an a to have an affair and leave his wife and kids.
> 
> Why is she getting an apartment in your town?


I don't know for sure that OM's wife knows except I saw his texts and emails sent in December and he was explaining how he told his wife and the books and counseling they were doing. This jives with what my wife said earlier that they agreed to tell their spouses. My wife says he's been kicked out of his house for the 3rd time since the A. 

My wife says she is getting an apartment in our town because she wants to decide whether she is moving to OM's state or not. I think everyone is telling her to slow down. Besides OM's state requires he and his wife be separated for a year before they can even file for divorce. Plus I don't know if my wife's job will transfer to OM's state. She really loves her job.


----------



## Clemson

I am packing up her crap today. Thanks for the advice. Do you all recommend I be here when she moves her crap out? Don't know if it's better to prevent her from taking my stuff. 

Oddly enough, my neighbor had his wife cheat on him very similarly 10 years ago. He quickly got divorced and she came crawling back. He says my wife will be making a run and reconciliation in the next 6 months after relationship with OM goes bad. He recommended I put together a list of how she's hurt me so I can reference it when I feel weak. My parents never want to see her again so that is hanging out there. I am prepared for her to try to come back in the future and am anxious to finalize the D. I also thinking going on some dates might further help me fend her off down the road.


----------



## Clemson

Tatsuhiko said:


> If it provides any consolation, my guess is that it's all going to come crashing down. The spoiled wife-child now expected to take care of her boyfriend's kids, without ever having been a mother. No comfort or affirmation from the adult male who's been providing it for years. The boyfriend with at least one foot still in his old marriage--possibly both feet. Affairland is a wonderful fantasy, but reality will rear its head at some point. At that point I expect she'll come crawling back to you. She's underestimated what an important fixture you were in her life. She's a foolish child.
> 
> So get the documents squared away and remain civil and polite. I agree about stopping the weekend visits, but you should consider whether these visits are of some strategic advantage to you in the short-term. The friendlier you are up to the date of D, the more likely she is to be agreeable.
> 
> Once the documents are final, go completely dark. She's no longer welcome at your house. No calls, no texts. Her stuff gets moved out asap, if you have to do it by hand. You can talk with her family, but do not tell them anything that they might want to pass along to her. She wants to be "friends" so that she won't feel so guilty. Your purpose in life is not to mitigate her guilt or discuss the past with her. Your purpose is to find yourself a wonderful mature woman who loves and respects you and only you. There are millions of women that can fit this bill.


I am trying to be agreeable as needed to get the D done. Once it is finalized she is dead to me. I am glad to hear the pain gets better. This is the first weekend I've been alone. My family has visited the last few to keep me occupied.


----------



## Marc878

The fantasy won't last long if he has 3 kids and has to pay a ton of child support, etc or her other man decides she's not worth it and goes back to his wife.

However, her infidelity will stay with you a lifetime. Be prepared for the day she wakes up and try's to get her plan B back.

She is not safe wife material so don't fall for the crocodile tears and "I'm so sorry's". It will mainly be to get her lifestyle back.


----------



## Clemson

Marc878 said:


> The fantasy won't last long if he has 3 kids and has to pay a ton of child support, etc or her other man decides she's not worth it and goes back to his wife.
> 
> However, her infidelity will stay with you a lifetime. Be prepared for the day she wakes up and try's to get her plan B back.
> 
> She is not safe wife material so don't fall for the crocodile tears and "I'm so sorry's". It will mainly be to get her lifestyle back.


OM's kids are 8, 6 and 3. What a dirtbag. He's going to be broke for a long time paying child support and alimony. I hate that I am going to be funding their life with money I earned and not my wife but whatever.


----------



## Vinnydee

I once read advice given from a marriage counsellor to a husband with a similar problem. He stated that sometimes your spouse can become addicted to the other guy and no matter how much she wants to remain married and knows the horrible consequences if she does not stop seeing him, she cannot help herself. The advice was that this is not an uncommon problem and the only way to solve it was to move far away so that the wife could not see the OM at all.

I was in a similar situation except I was addicted to a girl at work. We were attracted to each other instantly just like I was with my wife. I met my wife and we were engaged 3 weeks later. I seem to be affected by pheromones or something but I fell head over heels with this new girl. I left my wife and our girlfriend for a month. Then we got back together, but I could not stop seeing the other woman. Our solution was to move very far away and the problem was solved. 

The point is that we cannot turn on and off love or other feelings by sheer will. Just try to look at someone and will love to occur. It will not happen. Same with trying to stop loving when the object of your love has done nothing wrong. As I learned, you can love more than one person at the same time. It is naive to think that two people can fulfill all of each other's needs. Those needs often change during the course of a marriage too. I have moved a second time to avoid an affair when I rejected the advances of a married women who then stalked me for months. She had two kids and a good husband but she wanted me for some reason and did not care that I was married. She left roses at my front door. Called me at night to tell me goodnight. I changed my phone number and then I got anonymous letters and she started to show up at my bus stops no matter that I changed them and also changed the times I went to and came home from work. Once she got on my bus and asked the woman sitting next to me to change seats with her so that she could sit next to me. It was like the movie Fatal Attraction. This was in pre-internet days with no caller ID or stalker laws.

I fear that moving away is going to be your only solution. That may prove difficult since you started your law practice and probably are only licensed in your State. I am lucky because I can work anywhere and had no kids. The sad thing about it is that second marriages have a higher failure rate than first marriages. The problem is that your wife is only with the OM for the fun and game parts of life. She is not living with him. She is not nagging him to take out the garbage or any of the boring daily things that go into a marriage other than sex. Love has an effect of making us blind to the other person's faults plus sex with someone new is always more exciting than what you have been having before. What happens is when they live together and have to deal with the non sexual aspects of a relationship, it can result in disaster. Those of us in the poly world know this and we have to guard against it, but when emotions come into play we tend to make made choices regardless of logic.

I feel for you but it sure sounds like your wife needs to be physically separated from the OM or she will forever be conflicted by the love for two men. Sooner or later one of you will force her to make a choice. You have what is called mature love with her but the OM has new love which is exciting, overlooks flaws and makes you want to spend as much time with your new love. I have both experienced this and seen it happen with my ex fiancee. If she could have, she would have kept me and the OM but I am too alpha to have another man in my relationship, only women. Not much you can do but see where this goes. 

My sister was in the same situation as your wife. Her new lover told his wife about them and my sister told her husband. They continued to live together in separate bedrooms, but she dated her boyfriend. When her husband found a new girlfriend, they divorced. Both are very happy now, but karma came back to bite my sister in the butt. A year after her boyfriend moved in with her, he had a stroke and now she has to take care of him for the rest of their lives. She left her husband because he is 11 years older than her and she wanted to go out every weekend and he did not. She so went out with her divorced girlfriends and that is where she met her new boyfriend. Now they cannot go dancing and drinking anymore so she is back where she started. Meanwhile her ex husband found a wealthy woman to marry and had a good life. These things happen and life is unfair.


----------



## Clemson

Vinnydee said:


> I once read advice given from a marriage counsellor to a husband with a similar problem. He stated that sometimes your spouse can become addicted to the other guy and no matter how much she wants to remain married and knows the horrible consequences if she does not stop seeing him, she cannot help herself. The advice was that this is not an uncommon problem and the only way to solve it was to move far away so that the wife could not see the OM at all.
> 
> I was in a similar situation except I was addicted to a girl at work. We were attracted to each other instantly just like I was with my wife. I met my wife and we were engaged 3 weeks later. I seem to be affected by pheromones or something but I fell head over heels with this new girl. I left my wife and our girlfriend for a month. Then we got back together, but I could not stop seeing the other woman. Our solution was to move very far away and the problem was solved.
> 
> The point is that we cannot turn on and off love or other feelings by sheer will. Just try to look at someone and will love to occur. It will not happen. Same with trying to stop loving when the object of your love has done nothing wrong. As I learned, you can love more than one person at the same time. It is naive to think that two people can fulfill all of each other's needs. Those needs often change during the course of a marriage too. I have moved a second time to avoid an affair when I rejected the advances of a married women who then stalked me for months. She had two kids and a good husband but she wanted me for some reason and did not care that I was married. She left roses at my front door. Called me at night to tell me goodnight. I changed my phone number and then I got anonymous letters and she started to show up at my bus stops no matter that I changed them and also changed the times I went to and came home from work. Once she got on my bus and asked the woman sitting next to me to change seats with her so that she could sit next to me. It was like the movie Fatal Attraction. This was in pre-internet days with no caller ID or stalker laws.
> 
> I fear that moving away is going to be your only solution. That may prove difficult since you started your law practice and probably are only licensed in your State. I am lucky because I can work anywhere and had no kids. The sad thing about it is that second marriages have a higher failure rate than first marriages. The problem is that your wife is only with the OM for the fun and game parts of life. She is not living with him. She is not nagging him to take out the garbage or any of the boring daily things that go into a marriage other than sex. Love has an effect of making us blind to the other person's faults plus sex with someone new is always more exciting than what you have been having before. Those of us in the poly world know this and we have to guard against it but when emotions come into play we tend to make made choices regardless of logic.
> 
> I feel for you but it sure sounds like your wife needs to be physically separated from the OM or she will forever be conflicted by the love for two men. Sooner or later one of you will force her to make a choice. You have what is called mature love with her but the OM has new love which is exciting, overlooks flaws and makes you want to spend as much time with your new love. I have both experienced this and seen it happen with my ex fiancee. If she could have, she would have kept me and the OM but I am too alpha to have another man in my relationship, only women. Not much you can do but see where this goes.
> 
> My sister was in the same situation as her wife. Her new lover told his wife and she told her husband. They continued to live together in separate bedrooms but she dated her boyfriend. When her husband found a new girlfriend, they divorced. Both are very happy now but karma came back to bite my sister in the but. A year after her boyfriend moved in with her, he had a stroke and now she has to take care of him for the rest of their lives. Meanwhile her ex husband found a wealthy woman to marry and had a good life. These things happen and life is unfair.


Dude the OM lives 1000 miles away and my wife hasn't seen him since November except face time. Yet She still chose him and I am divorcing her because of that. I gave her more than enough chances. If you guys knew how awesome our life was you would think this is even crazier.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Clemson said:


> I am packing up her crap today. Thanks for the advice. Do you all recommend I be here when she moves her crap out? Don't know if it's better to prevent her from taking my stuff.


I would be there. Pack it up yourself to make it go faster, and to be certain she can't take anything else that isn't hers. She's not the woman you thought you knew and you have no idea what she's capable of.



Clemson said:


> Oddly enough, my neighbor had his wife cheat on him very similarly 10 years ago. He quickly got divorced and she came crawling back. He says my wife will be making a run and reconciliation in the next 6 months after relationship with OM goes bad. He recommended I put together a list of how she's hurt me so I can reference it when I feel weak.


Her potential return would not surprise me either. Cheaters live in their own fantasy world, and for her that includes your steadfast love in the event that her affair doesn't last. You can very definitely expect her to try to keep manipulating you, and take whatever defensive measures you need to protect yourself against that. Including re-reading this thread.



Clemson said:


> OM's kids are 8, 6 and 3. What a dirtbag. He's going to be broke for a long time paying child support and alimony. I hate that I am going to be funding their life with money I earned and not my wife but whatever.


Why would you be giving them money? Didn't you say your wife had a job?


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## MattMatt

Annnndddd it's all aboard for the Crazy Town Limerence Express!










@Clemson, she has boarded the CTLE and all you can do is wave her off from the station.

What I do suggest is that you look at counselling for yourself, to help you get through this situation.


----------



## EI

Clemson said:


> Good thoughts. My D should become final by April or May. I am leary of dating before the D is final for a couple reasons. I don't want my wife getting pissed off and then challenging our agreed financial split. Right now we are doing this without lawyers (I don't do divorce law). Plus I don't want any serious relationship until I am truly single since that is a bad foundation I think. I am open to brief encounters with women and think that might be better at this time. I'm a pretty fun and good dude and women like me. People are already trying to set me up with attractive women. I've just been out of the dating game for a while and my wife really ticked every box I had for a wife plus our history.. My confidence has not been hurt by all this surprisingly. I'm just depressed at times about lost dreams and future. really appreciate everyone's thoughts. I am glad we didn't have kids. _*We had planned to start IVF in January so I dodged a bullet.*_


I just read through your whole thread to make sure that I hadn't missed this in another post, but I didn't see it addressed anywhere except in this one comment.

Would you mind elaborating on the bolded text a bit? Why IVF? Had you been trying unsuccessfully to have a baby for quite some time? If so, had the two of you been able to determine the cause of your infertility issues? I do agree with what has already been posted here as far as your need to move on without your wife, although I am curious as to whether or not the infertility issues could have played any part, even if subconsciously, in your wife's affair. Although, it certainly would not justify having an affair, as nothing justifies that kind of betrayal, and I say that having been the WS in my own marriage. I've simply observed this as having been a common factor in a number of marriages that have been rocked by infidelity.

I'm not very tech savvy and I cannot recall how to link to another thread on TAM, but perhaps one of the more tech savvy TAMers could link you to bff's thread. I think it would be a very beneficial and empowering thread for you to read.

You've got some hard times ahead of you, but you seem to be very intelligent, grounded, and confident in the knowledge that this is not in any way due to any failure or shortcomings on your part. I suspect that, like bff, you will rise above this difficult time in your life and come out on the other side a much happier man. Good luck to you.


----------



## EunuchMonk

lifeistooshort said:


> So you think that an established 35 year old is the same risk as a *sheltered 18 year old?*
> 
> Serious question.
> 
> I don't. Sure people can cheat at any age, but if age isn't a factor why is the divorce rate so much higher for those under 25?


Who says she has to be sheltered? You are making assumptions here. Not all young people are sheltered despite what condescending older folks may think. Some young people have had a hard life that wasn't about Reeboks and seeing the latest movie at the cinema. Furthermore, I didn't say OP had to go as young as 18. He said he married his now ex-wife at 26.

Not all 35 year olds are established. Some are in a mess. Maybe where you are the divorce rate is higher for those under 25. I know where I am, empty-nesters get divorced the most.


----------



## lifeistooshort

EunuchMonk said:


> Who says she has to be sheltered? You are making assumptions here. Not all young people are sheltered despite what condescending older folks may think. Some young people have had a hard life that wasn't about Reeboks and seeing the latest movie at the cinema. Furthermore, I didn't say OP had to go as young as 18. He said he married his now ex-wife at 26.
> 
> Not all 35 year olds are established. Some are in a mess. Maybe where you are the divorce rate is higher for those under 25. I know where I am, empty-nesters get divorced the most.


I know she wasn't 18, I used that for an example because you claimed that age doesn't matter.

Age does matter, otherwise 16 year olds would be fair game. 

He implied she was sheltered.....not much attention until college, limited experience, and a conservative family. 

It's true that people divorce at all ages, but I stand by the fact that data supports a higher rate for those under 25. They're not a good risk.....I know I wasn't.

You might get a good one, but the younger you go the higher the risk they're not ready for marriage.

Either way it doesn't matter for him, she's not wife material. And hopefully at his age he won't still looking at 23 year olds for anything serious.


----------



## Clemson

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I would be there. Pack it up yourself to make it go faster, and to be certain she can't take anything else that isn't hers. She's not the woman you thought you knew and you have no idea what she's capable of.
> 
> 
> 
> Her potential return would not surprise me either. Cheaters live in their own fantasy world, and for her that includes your steadfast love in the event that her affair doesn't last. You can very definitely expect her to try to keep manipulating you, and take whatever defensive measures you need to protect yourself against that. Including re-reading this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you be giving them money? Didn't you say your wife had a job?


My wife has a job. OM is going to be broke from his divorce (assuming he follows through) so my wife will be paying for everything using the money I paid in divorce. That's what I meant. Indirectly I will be funding their life.


----------



## Clemson

EI said:


> I just read through your whole thread to make sure that I hadn't missed this in another post, but I didn't see it addressed anywhere except in this one comment.
> 
> Would you mind elaborating on the bolded text a bit? Why IVF? Had you been trying unsuccessfully to have a baby for quite some time? If so, had the two of you been able to determine the cause of your infertility issues? I do agree with what has already been posted here as far as your need to move on without your wife, although I am curious as to whether or not the infertility issues could have played any part, even if subconsciously, in your wife's affair. Although, it certainly would not justify having an affair, as nothing justifies that kind of betrayal, and I say that having been the WS in my own marriage. I've simply observed this as having been a common factor in a number of marriages that have been rocked by infidelity.
> 
> I'm not very tech savvy and I cannot recall how to link to another thread on TAM, but perhaps one of the more tech savvy TAMers could link you to bff's thread. I think it would be a very beneficial and empowering thread for you to read.
> 
> You've got some hard times ahead of you, but you seem to be very intelligent, grounded, and confident in the knowledge that this is not in any way due to any failure or shortcomings on your part. I suspect that, like bff, you will rise above this difficult time in your life and come out on the other side a much happier man. Good luck to you.


We tried to get pregnant naturally for couple years unsuccessfully. Her family has problems with fertility and her sister just did IVF so we knew going in it might be needed. I did not pressure my wife and she was not stressed about not getting pregnant. We figured if it was meant to be it would happen. We enjoyed each other so much that if no kids we weren't going to be unhappy.


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## Betrayedone

Go to Divorce Care classes at local church......helpful and not too over the top on religion......Post here for the best free advice you will receive.....Individual counseling as needed.......Actually, in the grand scheme of things you are a relatively lucky guy from a financial standpoint. Not minimizing your personal pain at all. Some of the stories here will just tear you apart......


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## NoChoice

OP,
It has been posted numerous times that your wife is immature. That is the reality of it, she is a child. Also, I dare say that she had "never felt this way before" when you and she were first dating and I can assure you she will feel yet another unique feeling when she cheats on the poor father of three, that is if he does not beat her to it. They deserve one another and you deserve better. Know this that if you take her back you will relive this scenario again only with the possibility of children involved. Consider this carefully.


----------



## 225985

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> 
> It has been posted numerous times that your wife is immature. That is the reality of it, she is a child. Also, I dare say that she had "never felt this way before" when you and she were first dating and I can assure you she will feel yet another unique feeling when she cheats on the poor father of three, that is if he does not beat her to it. They deserve one another and you deserve better. Know this that if you take her back you will relive this scenario again only with the possibility of children involved. Consider this carefully.




Same post in every thread. She is not a child. 

According to some studies, half the adult population cheats. They are not children. 

They cheat because they are needy. Or selfish. Or they just put their needs ahead of their partner. They cheat because they can. That's about it. 

OP, i am sorry you are here.


----------



## honcho

Clemson said:


> I am packing up her crap today. Thanks for the advice. Do you all recommend I be here when she moves her crap out? Don't know if it's better to prevent her from taking my stuff.
> 
> Oddly enough, my neighbor had his wife cheat on him very similarly 10 years ago. He quickly got divorced and she came crawling back. He says my wife will be making a run and reconciliation in the next 6 months after relationship with OM goes bad. He recommended I put together a list of how she's hurt me so I can reference it when I feel weak. My parents never want to see her again so that is hanging out there. I am prepared for her to try to come back in the future and am anxious to finalize the D. I also thinking going on some dates might further help me fend her off down the road.


Some try and come back, most dont. Most do so much damage they can't swallow enough pride to try and come back.


----------



## straightshooter

Clemson,

You are probably correct in that this OM is going to be one broke ass hole even if he is telling the truth and divorces his wife. And guess what? When your wife and him have no money to do anything, the resentment and problems in the relationship will come crashing down. And wait until she sees what happens if her little "instant" family of young ones can't stand her and all the havoc that will create.

Guess What. NOT YOUR PROBLEM any more. And you said it correctly. SHE SHOULD BE DEAD TO YOU ONCE SHE LEAVES.

t=There is nothing more to figure out and I do not know why you want to even go down the path of talking about if she wants to come back in six months. Unfortunately, if you keep conversing with her family and mutual friends, you are inadvertently going to be subject to updates on what is going on with her.

You have no kids. Make the break. And you will do better.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> My wife has a job. OM is going to be broke from his divorce (assuming he follows through) so my wife will be paying for everything using the money I paid in divorce. That's what I meant. Indirectly I will be funding their life.


I would fight to not give her a cent. You are a lawyer you must have friends. Beside that your wife is beyond stupid. She married a faithful man who has his own law practice! She is trading that in for a cheater who has 3 kids and a ex wife. She may be one of the dumbest people on the planet. 

Dude she is going to have a bitter pill to swallow. Again your kids will have higher IQ's with someone else.


----------



## 225985

sokillme said:


> I would fight to not give her a cent. You are a lawyer you must have friends. Beside that your wife is beyond stupid. She married a faithful man who has his own law practice! She is trading that in for a cheater who has 3 kids and a ex wife. She may be one of the dumbest people on the planet.
> 
> Dude she is going to have a bitter pill to swallow. Again your kids will have higher IQ's with someone else.




It's never about money. 

Never any long term thinking. 

It's about instant gratification.


----------



## sokillme

blueinbr said:


> It's never about money.
> 
> Never any long term thinking.
> 
> It's about instant gratification.


Truth.


----------



## *Deidre*

Clemson said:


> I am packing up her crap today. Thanks for the advice. Do you all recommend I be here when she moves her crap out? Don't know if it's better to prevent her from taking my stuff.
> 
> Oddly enough, my neighbor had his wife cheat on him very similarly 10 years ago. He quickly got divorced and she came crawling back. He says my wife will be making a run and reconciliation in the next 6 months after relationship with OM goes bad. He recommended I put together a list of how she's hurt me so I can reference it when I feel weak. My parents never want to see her again so that is hanging out there. I am prepared for her to try to come back in the future and am anxious to finalize the D. I also thinking going on some dates might further help me fend her off down the road.


No contact is the only way. If she can't contact you, she could show up at your house, but you don't need to open the door. lol Seriously, NC is the only way out of a toxic relationship, and that's what you were in. And that's what she is in with her OM. Because nothing good comes from cheating, and she will likely come running back, because you're her second best option at that point, until another better option comes along.  Please stay strong.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Clemson said:


> My wife has a job. OM is going to be broke from his divorce (assuming he follows through) so my wife will be paying for everything using the money I paid in divorce. That's what I meant. Indirectly I will be funding their life.


What money you paid in divorce? You mean her half of your joint assets? That's her problem if she uses it up supporting him and his kids.


----------



## Clemson

Hopeful Cynic said:


> What money you paid in divorce? You mean her half of your joint assets? That's her problem if she uses it up supporting him and his kids.


Yes her half of joint assets. I know she has a right to it. I made most of the money but I know how it works and I was prepared to share every penny I had as her husband. Just makes me mad she had the affair and takes half the money but I understand it is a joint asset.


----------



## Clemson

straightshooter said:


> Clemson,
> 
> You are probably correct in that this OM is going to be one broke ass hole even if he is telling the truth and divorces his wife. And guess what? When your wife and him have no money to do anything, the resentment and problems in the relationship will come crashing down. And wait until she sees what happens if her little "instant" family of young ones can't stand her and all the havoc that will create.
> 
> Guess What. NOT YOUR PROBLEM any more. And you said it correctly. SHE SHOULD BE DEAD TO YOU ONCE SHE LEAVES.
> 
> t=There is nothing more to figure out and I do not know why you want to even go down the path of talking about if she wants to come back in six months. Unfortunately, if you keep conversing with her family and mutual friends, you are inadvertently going to be subject to updates on what is going on with her.
> 
> You have no kids. Make the break. And you will do better.


I'm not entertaining taking her back. I am preparing for that eventuality so I am strong enough to deflect the urge to "be back to normal" which I know is not possible. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Yes her half of joint assets. I know she has a right to it. I made most of the money but I know how it works and I was prepared to share every penny I had as her husband. Just makes me mad she had the affair and takes half the money but I understand it is a joint asset.


It sucks, but money is money. Keep you honor and your dignity. You can't put a price on it. You will be earning a lot more I suspect.


----------



## Marc878

The other thing you'll have to do in order to make this as easy on you as possible. Stay away from her family. I'm sure they are good folks but but bringing her up, talking about her will just hinder you.

Sounds kinda harsh but you have to look at what's best for you. 

If you can set boundaries and maintain no contact it's the best thing.

Hurts a lot up front but it'll get you where you need to be faster.

Sorry man


----------



## sokillme

Marc878 said:


> The other thing you'll have to do in order to make this as easy on you as possible. Stay away from her family. I'm sure they are good folks but but bringing her up, talking about her will just hinder you.
> 
> Sounds kinda harsh but you have to look at what's best for you.
> 
> If you can set boundaries and maintain no contact it's the best thing.
> 
> Hurts a lot up front but it'll get you where you need to be faster.
> 
> Sorry man


Agreed, plus I suggest you tell them that it is now time to move on, thank them for being good in laws and wish them well. They will respect that and it will just make her look worse because once again you proved to be a good man. Imagine being her father and knowing how much she traded down. Knowing who she is with? Now I am not saying she had to stay married to you but even if the marriage is not great, she went for a married guy with 3 kids, while he was still married. Every father's dream. :surprise:

Dude in about a year you are going to be thanking you lucky stars you are far away from the crash and burn that is about to happen.


----------



## Clemson

Marc878 said:


> The other thing you'll have to do in order to make this as easy on you as possible. Stay away from her family. I'm sure they are good folks but but bringing her up, talking about her will just hinder you.
> 
> Sounds kinda harsh but you have to look at what's best for you.
> 
> If you can set boundaries and maintain no contact it's the best thing.
> 
> Hurts a lot up front but it'll get you where you need to be faster.
> 
> Sorry man


Yeah losing her family will be hard. Since my family is out of town, I have really relied on them and they are good people. They treated me like a son and brother. My wife's two sisters have great husbands and the three couples always hung out and were all roughly the same age. I will miss them but I understand it can't go on forever. I have already told them all I will have to start withdrawing from them. Lots of tears. My stupid wife has hurt so many people and she doesn't care right now. I sincerely thank all of you who spent time offering your experience and wisdom regarding my situation. My future is very bright and I will find someone great. Just thought I already had - that's all.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Yeah losing her family will be hard. Since my family is out of town, I have really relied on them and they are good people. They treated me like a son and brother. My wife's two sisters have great husbands and the three couples always hung out and were all roughly the same age. I will miss them but I understand it can't go on forever. I have already told them all I will have to start withdrawing from them. Lots of tears. My stupid wife has hurt so many people and she doesn't care right now. I sincerely thank all of you who spent time offering your experience and wisdom regarding my situation. My future is very bright and I will find someone great. Just thought I already had - that's all.


Once you do make it a point to pay it forward and come back and post. More people need to see there is hope and joy in ending an abusive relationship.


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## Clemson

sokillme said:


> Agreed, plus I suggest you tell them that it is now time to move on, thank them for being good in laws and wish them well. They will respect that and it will just make her look worse because once again you proved to be a good man. Imagine being her father and knowing how much she traded down. Knowing who she is with? Now I am not saying she had to stay married to you but even if the marriage is not great, she went for a married guy with 3 kids, while he was still married. Every father's dream. :surprise:
> 
> Dude in about a year you are going to be thanking you lucky stars you are far away from the crash and burn that is about to happen.


You seem like a really good dude and we think a lot a like. Thanks for your thoughts. My wife's parents are devastated by this. Her mom brought me 5-6 meals last week so I could eat a home cooked meal. Her dad sends me bible scripture and tells me how disappointed they are in their daughter. My nieces and nephews ask where I am at family gatherings. It's the elephant in the room and they have no desire to meet OM or bring him into the family. It's a disaster. I'm done with my wife. I'm just hung up on the old version of her that doesn't exist. It's like grieving a death. Packing up her stuff today was tough. Seeing old pics and clothing I bought her or could see her wearing. I'll be glad when everything is out of the house and I can get busy building my new life. I never in a million years saw this coming with my wife. Lightning striking me seemed more likely. I know my situation could have been much worse but it still hurts sometimes even though I know I'm better without her now.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> You seem like a really good dude and we think a lot a like. Thanks for your thoughts. My wife's parents are devastated by this. Her mom brought me 5-6 meals last week so I could eat a home cooked meal. Her dad sends me bible scripture and tells me how disappointed they are in their daughter. My nieces and nephews ask where I am at family gatherings. It's the elephant in the room and they have no desire to meet OM or bring him into the family. It's a disaster. I'm done with my wife. I'm just hung up on the old version of her that doesn't exist. It's like grieving a death. Packing up her stuff today was tough. Seeing old pics and clothing I bought her or could see her wearing. I'll be glad when everything is out of the house and I can get busy building my new life. I never in a million years saw this coming with my wife. Lightning striking me seemed more likely. I know my situation could have been much worse but it still hurts sometimes even though I know I'm better without her now.


No one sees it coming. You responded with dignity and assertiveness though, that will serve you well. You will also get over this. There is hope. Though I was not married I had proposed and it was my first love. First everything. Anyway, I will tell you what my Mother who was cheated on told me. If you can get through this you can get through anything. 

I no longer fear emotional pain like I once did, because I took that to heart. Once I was through it and I learned that it really does go away with time, then the "hopeless" fear went away. And I have been through some serious **** since then but I had the hope in knowing "this too shall pass". One caveat I would add is I don't have kids, I would not want to live through one dying. I am sure that is worse.

One other thing, when she does try to get you back and they almost always do, be prepared for her family to put on the full court press. Hopefully you will be fully detached by then. This is also a big loss for them.


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## aine

Clemson said:


> I found this board and thought I would start a thread to see if I can get thoughts from others. My Wife is probably too far gone.
> 
> Little background on marriage. My Wife and I had a great Marriage and wonderful life. We met when she was 23 and I was 32. Wife is an old soul who likes to sew and cook and comes from a great family where church and family are the focus. She was a late bloomer and really didn't become attractive until college. She is the youngest of 3 daughters. Wife was sweet, loving, loyal and very attractive - perfect wife material. Wife and I were married in 2010 after dating for 3 years. Wife dated one guy all through college before breaking up with him and then meeting me. From the beginning, she was obsessed with me and would not even go out with her friends unless I came too.
> 
> We spent all our time together and genuinely loved being with each other. Without a doubt, we were each other’s best friends. Wife was definitely co-dependent on me and I was with her to some extent. I am an attorney and Wife works in insurance and we have no kids so we traveled extensively and generally lived a fun life. My wife complained about very little and never voiced any problems in our marriage. Wife always seemed happy and we almost never fought.
> 
> In April 2016, I started a new law firm which began taking up a lot of my time. Wife also started a new job that required her to travel. We seemed to be acclimating fine to this different/stressful time in our lives. I was working particularly long hours in September and October.
> 
> In November 2016, I come home from work to find Wife crying on our couch. Wife says she met a male co-worker and they had an affair during 3 week-long business trips (which happened during the period of my birthday and our anniversary). Apparently they really connected and had great passion. Wife says she was lonely and didn't know she was unhappy until she met OM. OM is 35 years old and married with three small children and lives in another state 1000 miles away. I was devastated and never suspected A. Wife tells me she loves me and chooses me over the OM. Wife has deep feelings for OM. Wife sends a no contact text to OM the next day and shows it to me. Wife seemed genuinely remorseful. Wife's two sisters tell me they too had no idea she was in trouble despite talking to her almost everyday. Her entire family is saddened by Wife's actions.
> 
> Two weeks later we are boarding a plane for a previously scheduled trip. I look over and see Wife texting OM and I almost have a panic attack. OM has told his wife of the affair but can’t stop thinking of my wife. My wife says OM reached out to her the night before and said “thinking of you”. Wife apologizes and I take her phone and text OM to never contact my wife or I will tell their employer about what is going on. We then start couples counseling. Wife tells counselor she wants to make our Marriage work.
> 
> Another two weeks later though, my wife gives me the ILYBNILWY line. I’m stunned. When I challenge her that she barely knows OM she says she's known him "101 days" like a teenager. I'm really concerned I'm losing her. But over the remainder of December, things are actually pretty good as we work on us. On New Year's Eve, we are at a party and Wife says she is thinking of OM. I lose it and tell her I'm done with the marriage.
> 
> The next day, Wife is sobbing and tells me she can't live without me, she wishes A never happened and she will quit her job if it means she keeps me. In late January 2017, we go out of town and one night Wife breaks down crying and says she can't get over OM. My heart is broken.
> 
> Once back home, Wife tells me she wants to separate so she can have time to think. I tell Wife we can do in-home separation on one condition: that she not contact OM. Wife refuses and I make her leave our home. Two days later Wife contacts OM and finds out he has been kicked out of his house by his wife and lives with his brother now. OM is interested in continuing the A. On February 12, I meet WW and she tells me she is choosing OM over me. Wife says she missed me at first but when she found out OM wasn't with his wife, the separation was easier. I kick Wife out of our house and immediately filed for D. I won't be plan b option.
> 
> Since then, I have gone no contact (I also gave up pursuing several weeks earlier). Wife comes by every Sunday to get clothes for work week and to talk about finances/divorce and while she is home she asks how my week has been, etc like nothing is wrong. I can't believe this is the same wife who would eagerly wait for me to come home every day just 6-8 months ago.
> 
> Wife wants to move where OM lives even though she has never been to that state, knows no one but OM there, has never lived outside our city, might lose her job and would be leaving all friends and family.
> 
> Wife's entire family is against her decision and has helped me through this. They think my Wife is lost and didn't give our M a chance. I did not ask for their help but they desperately want our M to work. Personal friends have called asking if she has a brain tumor because this is not the person they know. This A has almost zero chance of working and there is literally no one encouraging Wife to leave other than OM. Yet here we are. Everyone I tell is stunned that Wife would have an A. It was so out of character for her. She is so distant and uncaring now. We have been together over 9 years and it's like it meant nothing. For someone so obsessed with me, I can't believe our lack of communication doesn't bother her at some level.
> 
> Looking back, I can't believe I have put up with all this over the past 3 months. I foresee my Wife returning in the future but I don't know if I would even want her back. Filing for divorce did not snap her out of it. I have lost 20 lbs and am in the best shape I've been in 15 years. Anything else I should be doing? Any words of encouragement? I'd be lying if I said I don't miss her everyday still.



Of course your wife is like a teenage she is in a deep fog and now the path is open as he is out of his house.

You have to emotionally detach and do the 180, stop letting her come around to the house to get her clothes and talk with you, that should not be an option for her, you have to completely cut off contact and only do so through lawyers, she needs to see that she is on her own with her choices.

Set a deadline when the movers are coming to take all her stuff - this will be therapeutic for you
Have them box up everthing and dump it outside the place where she is staying
Have your D lawyer send a letter that all contact through lawyers from now - do not make this easy for her
YOu feel terrible, but you are in good shape, start doing more for yourself.
How long will the D take?
Start joining clubs, take up a hobby, meet new people, no dating till D gone through.
Her family sound like decent people, but dont let them talk you into something you dont want
I think after your detach you will not want her back.

You are only 42, still time to meet another woman who will treat you right. Granted you both didnt work on the marriage and let careers, time and distance come between you. It would require alot of work to R. You gave her many chances, now it is time to let go, she has made the choice already and it shows alot about her character, let her go.


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## aine

Clemson said:


> OM's kids are 8, 6 and 3. What a dirtbag. He's going to be broke for a long time paying child support and alimony. I hate that I am going to be funding their life with money I earned and not my wife but whatever.


Feel so sorry for the OM's poor BW, what a **** bag, says so much about his character!


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## Hopeful Cynic

Clemson said:


> You seem like a really good dude and we think a lot a like. Thanks for your thoughts. My wife's parents are devastated by this. Her mom brought me 5-6 meals last week so I could eat a home cooked meal. Her dad sends me bible scripture and tells me how disappointed they are in their daughter. My nieces and nephews ask where I am at family gatherings. It's the elephant in the room and they have no desire to meet OM or bring him into the family. It's a disaster.  I'm done with my wife. I'm just hung up on the old version of her that doesn't exist. It's like grieving a death. Packing up her stuff today was tough. Seeing old pics and clothing I bought her or could see her wearing. I'll be glad when everything is out of the house and I can get busy building my new life. I never in a million years saw this coming with my wife. Lightning striking me seemed more likely. I know my situation could have been much worse but it still hurts sometimes even though I know I'm better without her now.


It's exactly like grieving a death. This evil twin has murdered your real wife. Be very thankful that you did not have children requiring you to have continued contact with the murderer.

It will always hurt occasionally. Something will happen to trigger the memory and you'll have moments of sorrow for what should have been, then move on. The pangs just come fewer and farther apart over time, especially once you can implement no contact. Then you reach a point where you just shrug and think "oh yeah, that was a thing once."

What helped me a lot, much more than I expected, was selling our once-shared home I had been the one to keep and buying a new one that didn't have memories echoing in it, one that was entirely my style and taste and suited only my needs, instead of being a compromise. Redecorating the old one had only been covering things up, it wasn't moving on.


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## Marc878

It'll be hard but you'll be fine and it seems like you know that. Time cures a lot of things.

If you get rid of pics, mementos, etc you won't be reminded and kept down as long.

Just be thankfull you don't have kids. You can make a complete break and after the D is final just go completely dark. Block social media, phone numbers, email, etc.

Like most she'll probably try the "lets be friends" thing. *Not in your best interest*. This is all for her. Helps eliviate guilt, leaves the door open, Helps them feel better about themselves, etc. Any contact will make your stay in limbo longer.

Definition of friend = honest, trustworthy, loyal. She's not your friend.


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## Hopeful Cynic

sokillme said:


> No one sees it coming. You responded with dignity and assertiveness though, that will serve you well. You will also get over this. There is hope. Though I was not married I had proposed and it was my first love. First everything. Anyway, I will tell you what my Mother who was cheated on told me. If you can get through this you can get through anything.


Hey, that's very close to what I tell myself! When anything gets rough in my life now, I just tell myself "this isn't as bad as being stabbed in the back by the person you trusted most" and get things done.



sokillme said:


> I no longer fear emotional pain like I once did, because I took that to heart. Once I was through it and I learned that it really does go away with time, then the "hopeless" fear went away. And I have been through some serious **** since then but I had the hope in knowing "this too shall pass". One caveat I would add is I don't have kids, I would not want to live through one dying. I am sure that is worse.


I don't know. I've never lost a child, but in the throes of my ordeal, I was thinking that I would rather have lost a child than experience the betrayal of infidelity. At least with losing a child, I would still have had a supportive spouse to go through it with. Being cheated on is the loneliest, hardest thing I can imagine. I remember a colleague got a cancer diagnosis not long after my d-day, and I was envious.

Any other disaster in life, and you go through it with the full support of everyone around you; your spouse, two families, all your friends, often even receiving insurance money.

Experience infidelity, and you go through it without your partner, while losing half your family and half or more of your friends, and your finances crash and burn.

It sucks. But this is a great place for advice on how to handle it. Wish I'd found it sooner in my process.


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## Marc878

Clemson said:


> You seem like a really good dude and we think a lot a like. Thanks for your thoughts. My wife's parents are devastated by this. Her mom brought me 5-6 meals last week so I could eat a home cooked meal. Her dad sends me bible scripture and tells me how disappointed they are in their daughter. My nieces and nephews ask where I am at family gatherings. It's the elephant in the room and they have no desire to meet OM or bring him into the family. It's a disaster. I'm done with my wife. *I'm just hung up on the old version of her that doesn't exist*. It's like grieving a death. Packing up her stuff today was tough. Seeing old pics and clothing I bought her or could see her wearing. I'll be glad when everything is out of the house and I can get busy building my new life. I never in a million years saw this coming with my wife. Lightning striking me seemed more likely. I know my situation could have been much worse but it still hurts sometimes even though I know I'm better without her now.


This is where most can get hung up for long periods of time or try and save something that's no longer there or perhaps never was.

It takes awhile for your heart to sync up with your mind. Once that happens and you see her for who she is or has become its someone you wouldn't want in your life anyway and you'll know you've moved on. 

Make no mistake for you to have a good future with someone else your stbxw has to be purged or it will ruin any relationship. No other woman wants an X around even in memory.


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## sokillme

Hopeful Cynic said:


> It will always hurt occasionally.


I don't hurt at all. I see very clearly what the woman who cheated on me was. I did SO much better. Finding someone new with new memories took the pain away. Especially when you love the new person. The love you had for the old person becomes a memory and so does the pain associated with that love.


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## commonsenseisn't

OP, I went through a similar ordeal a long time ago and having the benefit of extended hindsight I can vouch for the truthfulness of what the TAM community has told you. I think you are on the right track. The only thing I can add is don't forget to change the door locks asap. I will also reinforce the truth that you should harden yourself against taking her back. If you do things right you will realize that you don't want her back by the time she comes crawling back. Good luck, and I'm sorry you're here.


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## jlg07

Clemson said:


> She is living with her parents until a lease on an apartment starts next week.


 sorry that you are going through this. 
You need to pack all of her stuff up asap and send it to her parents. She has NO rights to ask you about your week or anything else. She has picked who she wants. ..now make her live by her decision. You will be much better off than being with somebody who could just make a snap decision to have an affair because you were away for 3 weeks.


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## GusPolinski

Clemson said:


> OM's kids are 8, 6 and 3. What a dirtbag. He's going to be broke for a long time paying child support and alimony. I hate that I am going to be funding their life with money I earned and not my wife but whatever.


Eh... maybe not. You've been married for under a decade, you have no kids, and she works.

Oh, and you have proof of infidelity... right?!?


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## sokillme

Just to give you and idea this is the kind of thing you just avoided. Your wife is the same kind of person as the women in that thread. She just got their quicker.

I know you are in pain but yours is like skin cancer compared to this guy's throat cancer.


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## Joe75

Double Post


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## Joe75

Clemson said:


> Any words of encouragement?


Hi Clemson

The following is from a perspective of a man in his sixties.

Notwithstanding your present situation, you are 41 and the best part of your life is just ahead. You are at the age where you have the acquired experience and astuteness from twenty years of adulthood and still can optimistically look forward to the future knowing there are numerous possibilities/opportunities still within your reach.

In the work place, you will enter into the most productive period of your life – both professionally and financially. 

As for your personal life, take the necessary time to mourn and heal from the ending of your marriage. When I was _much_ younger, a relationship ended when the woman, who I thought was my present and my future, cheated. It is my experience that healing takes longer than mourning. Thus, take the time to re-acquaint you with yourself, get comfortable in your skin again and enjoy time with yourself. That is what I did and I discovered that I like Joe75 and he is a good man. I also discovered, or perhaps re-discovered, that the world is full of remarkable women from all walks of life. A single good man in his early forties, when you are ready, well, let me say please post an update in two years.

Clemson, many folks wish, if they could go back in time, to revisit their teen years or their twenties. Not me, if I could I would go a back to my fortieth birthday when I was on the cusp of hitting my stride. Once you taken the time to truly heal, the future awaits you. 

Regards

Joe75


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## Clemson

Thanks for all the replies and encouragement. I plan to focus on getting back to knowing myself and being comfortable being alone again. Sounds like it's just going to take time. My heart was ripped out but it has gotten better with time. I want to use this time to get in the best shape of my life since college. In many ways I know I'm blessed and that I'd rather know my wife has this flaw now versus 10 years later with kids. I will post updates in the coming months. Hopefully I have some good positive stories to tell.


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## bandit.45

Clemson said:


> Thanks Monk. You are not the first person to believe she is super codependent and is now obsessed with this new guy. At the very beginning I asked what the OM's flaws were and she said he has no negative flaws. I'm definitely seeing the same pattern. She is obsessing over a new person like she did with me at the beginning.


She may also be a love addict. Love addicts are addicted to the heady chemicals the brain releases during courtship. They seem to lack the ability to develop the mature, committed kind of love that keeps married people together for the long term. They just have no ability to mature past the limerance stage. Once the shine wears off the penny, they look for someone else to be enamored with. 

Marilyn Monroe and Elizabeth Taylor were both love addicts, who moved from man to man, never settling down for long.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/healthy-connections/201012/how-break-the-pattern-love-addiction


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## Clemson

bandit.45 said:


> She may also be a love addict. Love addicts are addicted to the heady chemicals the brain releases during courtship. They seem to lack the ability to develop the mature, committed kind of love that keeps married people together for the long term. They just have no ability to mature past the limerance stage. Once the shine wears off the penny, they look for someone else to be enamored with.
> 
> Marilyn Monroe and Elizabeth Taylor were both love addicts, who moved from man to man, never settling down for long.
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/healthy-connections/201012/how-break-the-pattern-love-addiction


That could be her. Despite being gorgeous, she wasn't always that way and I think has self-esteem issues. She could not decide between OM and me for months and then finally decided on the limerance. I think she equates that "in love" feeling with "love". Plus she is addicted to that feeling and cannot stop craving it. I watched her for 2 months struggle with getting over a guy she literally has spent parts of less than 10-12 days with. I think while she had that feeling with me she was fine and while she was not tempted she was fine but the minute she felt it with someone she was gone.


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## BetrayedDad

Clemson said:


> Looking back, I can't believe I have put up with all this over the past 3 months. I foresee my Wife returning in the future but I don't know if I would even want her back. Filing for divorce did not snap her out of it. I have lost 20 lbs and am in the best shape I've been in 15 years. Anything else I should be doing? Any words of encouragement? I'd be lying if I said I don't miss her everyday still.


Continue with the self improvement. Make it your NEW obsession to replace the POS you married.

Do NOT under any circumstances EVER take her back. You made it through the worst part, don't fall back in.

All I can tell you bud was I was in your shoes at one point. Time is your friend, eventually you will move on.

Now I want to send her a "thank you" card for giving me the excuse I needed to dump her ass.

Best decision I ever made. You'll think so too when you realize there are SO many better women out there.


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## Clemson

BetrayedDad said:


> Continue with the self improvement. Make it your NEW obsession to replace the POS you married.
> 
> Do NOT under any circumstances EVER take her back. You made it through the worst part, don't fall back in.
> 
> All I can tell you bud was I was in your shoes at one point. Time is your friend, eventually you will move on.
> 
> Now I want to send her a "thank you" card for giving me the excuse I needed to dump her ass.
> 
> Best decision I ever made. You'll think so too when you realize there are SO many better women out there.


Glad to hear from an experienced person. I look forward to the pain being gone. It's less everyday but still there. The more friends I explain my situation to the more I learn that I'm not alone. I am anxious to get this divorce over so I can start moving forward with the rest of my life. I feel like I'm just stuck in neutral until then. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me. I know I will make some lucky woman a good husband. When my wife first told me she was choosing OM I was shocked and thought I'd never find someone as good as my wife. Looking at the world with a dating eye I've seen there are other available attractive women out there.


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## BobSimmons

Clemson said:


> I am packing up her crap today. Thanks for the advice. Do you all recommend I be here when she moves her crap out? Don't know if it's better to prevent her from taking my stuff.
> 
> Oddly enough, my neighbor had his wife cheat on him very similarly 10 years ago. He quickly got divorced and *she came crawling back. He says my wife will be making a run and reconciliation in the next 6 months after relationship with OM goes bad. *He recommended I put together a list of how she's hurt me so I can reference it when I feel weak. My parents never want to see her again so that is hanging out there. I am prepared for her to try to come back in the future and am anxious to finalize the D. I also thinking going on some dates might further help me fend her off down the road.


With all due respect this could be the loves of their lives and they could be super happy forever. 

You're/He's not a fortune teller and that side of things are entirely out of your control all you have is what is in front of you and the only thing you can control is your side of this situation.

As for putting together a list, why? She's actively cheating as you speak, you've seen her actions and the way she's treated you. She's actively planning on moving away from you to go with this man. Even if she came back, why would you take her back? And love has nothing to do with it, because if love allows someone to humiliate and disrespect you, it's not love it's a lack of self respect.


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## Yeswecan

lifeistooshort said:


> I think the issue that's not being addressed here is that your wife was 23 when you met her, and frankly 23 and 32 a a very large difference at that point in life.
> 
> You'd lived your 20's, your wife had not. Forget about the "old soul" stuff, your wife wasn't ready to be married. I mean, were you at 23? Clearly not because you waited until you were in your 30's.
> 
> Your wife isn't marriage material right now. Might she be some day? Maybe, but at this point a lot of damage has been done by her infidelities, so maybe best for you to move on and find someone a little older that's ready to be married.





Clemson said:


> Fair point about our age difference. That was why we dated 3 years before we got married. So she was 26 when we got married. I wanted to make sure she was in this for real and it wasn't just a honeymoon phase. I know 23 was young but women have been getting married at that age (including my own mother) and younger for a long time. She had a family who strongly valued marriage and was a good girl. It all made me think that her age wasn't a major factor. Apparently I may have been wrong.





Evinrude58 said:


> I totally 100% disagree with you. Always the mans fault lts. This is clearly from what has been described, a disloyal, ungrateful, low class woman.
> She doesn't get a pass on cheating and abandonment just because she married young.


The getting married at a young age as an excuse is something I would not accept. There are many successful marriages when young and age difference are present.


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## BetrayedDad

Clemson said:


> Glad to hear from an experienced person. I look forward to the pain being gone. It's less everyday but still there. The more friends I explain my situation to the more I learn that I'm not alone. I am anxious to get this divorce over so I can start moving forward with the rest of my life. I feel like I'm just stuck in neutral until then. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me. I know I will make some lucky woman a good husband. When my wife first told me she was choosing OM I was shocked and thought I'd never find someone as good as my wife. Looking at the world with a dating eye I've seen there are other available attractive women out there.


You're about my age friend and I'll be completely blunt with you.

There will be women literally falling over themselves to be with a lawyer, who has his sh!t together, in good shape, who has no kids.

30 something women on the dating scene have biological clocks screaming at them to lock down a guy like you. You're gonna slay.

No rush to hit the dating scene. Make sure you hit the gym frequently, get back to that Clemson physique. It's great for mental recovery.

If your ex is anything like mine, one day you'll get the call, snot dripping down her face, desperate to have you back after OM dumps her.

DON'T FALL FOR IT!!! She will try to plan B you. She will try to use guilt to manipulate you. Let her live the rest of her life with the REGRET. 

That's all the justice you'll need. Plus the new arm candy you'll soon have is a nice perk. Good Luck bro. Her loss..... BELIEVE IT!


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## micawber

Get tested for STDs if there is a chance you may have been exposed. 

Sorry you are here.


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## TX-SC

BetrayedDad said:


> You're about my age friend and I'll be completely blunt with you.
> 
> There will be women literally falling over themselves to be with a lawyer, who has his sh!t together, in good shape, who has no kids.
> 
> 30 something women on the dating scene have biological clocks screaming at them to lock down a guy like you. You're gonna slay.
> 
> No rush to hit the dating scene. Make sure you hit the gym frequently, get back to that Clemson physique. It's great for mental recovery.
> 
> If your ex is anything like mine, one day you'll get the call, snot dripping down her face, desperate to have you back after OM dumps her.
> 
> DON'T FALL FOR IT!!! She will try to plan B you. She will try use guilt to manipulate you. Let her live the rest of her life with the REGRET.
> 
> That's all the justice you'll need. Plus the new arm candy you'll soon have is a nice perk. Good Luck bro. Her loss..... BELIEVE IT!


I agree 100 percent. You have great things in your future. Whether your wife and her OM stay together should not be of any concern to you. She's the past. Look to the future. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

You ARE going to have problems, sir. You're going to have the problem, as stated by betrayed Dad, of having to CHOOSE between all these beautiful women. And they are going to immediately fall madly in love with you and want to marry you. DO NOT let your pain allow you to accept anything other than what you want. WHEN you see red flags, dump them and DO NOT allow yourself to keep going out with them because you are scared to start over with a new one.

Your ex wife will feel like a distant memory in a year. You will have lots of choices. 

You will get better. Your wife is with a cheating scumbag. Do you think there's any remote possibility he can compare to you if you're a decent guy? In this case, I do think she'll be back, and I think you would be the biggest idiot in the country to take her back after what she has done.

Your post title sums it up pretty well. Your wife CHOSE another man. By golly she should have to live with that choice, not you.

Once you accept she is gone and WANT to move forward. You'll get to a point you are starting to have good days again really quickly. You'll have fewer and fewer bad ones until you finally get to where you don't give a darn whether she lives or dies. And for you, she should be dead to you either way. What she has done to you is the worst thing she possibly could do. 
Live well, my friend.


----------



## bandit.45

I agree with the others that you should not trust to hope she will come crawling back. They rarely ever do. This relationship of hers may very well succeed and she could go on to be very happy with her choice. 

That's why you need to move on and work towards indifference. It will come to you in time. You are already off to a good start. Just quit looking in the rear view.


----------



## Clemson

BetrayedDad said:


> You're about my age friend and I'll be completely blunt with you.
> 
> There will be women literally falling over themselves to be with a lawyer, who has his sh!t together, in good shape, who has no kids.
> 
> 30 something women on the dating scene have biological clocks screaming at them to lock down a guy like you. You're gonna slay.
> 
> No rush to hit the dating scene. Make sure you hit the gym frequently, get back to that Clemson physique. It's great for mental recovery.
> 
> If your ex is anything like mine, one day you'll get the call, snot dripping down her face, desperate to have you back after OM dumps her.
> 
> DON'T FALL FOR IT!!! She will try to plan B you. She will try to use guilt to manipulate you. Let her live the rest of her life with the REGRET.
> 
> That's all the justice you'll need. Plus the new arm candy you'll soon have is a nice perk. Good Luck bro. Her loss..... BELIEVE IT!


Good to hear! I am working to get in great shape. It makes it easier without any other time commitments other than work. I'm a popular/fun guy and decent looking. My friends want to have a big "re-releasing into the wild" party for me when the divorce is final. They seem more excited about my prospects than I am.


----------



## nekonamida

lifeistooshort said:


> I think the issue that's not being addressed here is that your wife was 23 when you met her, and frankly 23 and 32 a a very large difference at that point in life.


 I'm a bit late to the party but this really got me thinking. I agree that it's quite a gap and that the WW was not ready to marry when she did but I don't think it was entirely due to age. I think it's more startling that she basically didn't mature in her view of relationships since she was 23. Maybe that was in part due to a lack of experience or maybe she's just one of those people who never gave up that idealistic perspective on love. It is especially clear when she says things like OM has no flaws. Leaving your wife and kids for an OW is a massive character flaw and a red flag for several other deeper character flaws like selfishness, lack of care and respect for their spouse, and entitlement in general.

This doesn't just apply to young people too. I read threads here with posters who married much younger then acted like a high schooler in their next relationship when they were well into their 40s. Fighting, breaking up, and getting back together every month or so for years! I didn't settle for those games in college. I couldn't imagine dealing with them in my 40s. It's mind boggling. People underestimate that dating and relationship building requires a lot of experience and trial and error in and of itself and just because you manage to get lucky in your first long term relationship/marriage doesn't mean you're any more prepared for the dating scene and the immature partners you could encounter afterwards.

Clemson, I don't think there was any fool proof way for you to have seen this coming. It doesn't sound like to me that you were intentionally looking for a younger woman to date but I would hope if a woman acted as codependent as your WW did at 23 that you would cut her loose now. Lesson learned. 

My take on the situation is that it never came up before the A because nothing ever triggered it. Why would you think an A would happen if your WW acted head over heels for you for 9 years? How could you question her loyalty when she never flirted or crossed any boundaries in the past? I also believe you that she put on the air of being very mature and though I don't think she actually is mature when it comes to marriage, I don't think you could have reasonably known that without some serious vetting. So when you're ready to date, ask about fidelity and future partners' experiences with it. Talk about situation you read some where as a stepping stone to ask about what they would do when faced with a difficult relationship choice. Get some more insight about how they think a long term relationship works. It's not fool proof but it will tell you a lot about whether they are the right person to get involved with or not.


----------



## GuyInColorado

Like others have said, you are in your prime. Finding fun and beautiful girls will not be a problem if you are in half decent shape. Make sure you date multiple women at the same time. Don't fall for the first one. I fell for the second girl and put a ring on her finger after 12 months of dating. I have no regrets, but I believe I got lucky. 

Once she's out of the home, start dating for fun. Just be up front with the girls that you are not settling down and still technically married. A bunch of them will just want to go out and get laid. Live it up for a while. Like the saying goes... Best way to get over someone is to get under someone new!


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I watched her for 2 months struggle with getting over a guy


This is where you need to work. As you see that was a waste of time. You should have filed the next day maybe the consequences would have snapped her out of it. Besides that never love someone enough to allow yourself to be abused. Waiting for your spouse to make up their mind is letting them abuse you.


----------



## Clemson

bandit.45 said:


> I agree with the others that you should not trust to hope she will come crawling back. They rarely ever do. This relationship of hers may very well succeed and she could go on to be very happy with her choice.
> 
> That's why you need to move on and work towards indifference. It will come to you in time. You are already off to a good start. Just quit looking in the rear view.


Don't misunderstand me. I'm not hoping she comes back. I'm dreading it. I want to be able to fend her off. Having had some new lady success by then would go a long way. At this point, it would be great if she moves to OM's state and I never see her again. I just don't think that will work out and she'll be back in my city one day coming after me.


----------



## sokillme

BobSimmons said:


> With all due respect this could be the loves of their lives and they could be super happy forever.



They deserve each other. Two real prizes.


----------



## Clemson

nekonamida said:


> I'm a bit late to the party but this really got me thinking. I agree that it's quite a gap and that the WW was not ready to marry when she did but I don't think it was entirely due to age. I think it's more startling that she basically didn't mature in her view of relationships since she was 23. Maybe that was in part due to a lack of experience or maybe she's just one of those people who never gave up that idealistic perspective on love. It is especially clear when she says things like OM has no flaws. Leaving your wife and kids for an OW is a massive character flaw and a red flag for several other deeper character flaws like selfishness, lack of care and respect for their spouse, and entitlement in general.
> 
> This doesn't just apply to young people too. I read threads here with posters who married much younger then acted like a high schooler in their next relationship when they were well into their 40s. Fighting, breaking up, and getting back together every month or so for years! I didn't settle for those games in college. I couldn't imagine dealing with them in my 40s. It's mind boggling. People underestimate that dating and relationship building requires a lot of experience and trial and error in and of itself and just because you manage to get lucky in your first long term relationship/marriage doesn't mean you're any more prepared for the dating scene and the immature partners you could encounter afterwards.
> 
> Clemson, I don't think there was any fool proof way for you to have seen this coming. It doesn't sound like to me that you were intentionally looking for a younger woman to date but I would hope if a woman acted as codependent as your WW did at 23 that you would cut her loose now. Lesson learned.
> 
> My take on the situation is that it never came up before the A because nothing ever triggered it. Why would you think an A would happen if your WW acted head over heels for you for 9 years? How could you question her loyalty when she never flirted or crossed any boundaries in the past? I also believe you that she put on the air of being very mature and though I don't think she actually is mature when it comes to marriage, I don't think you could have reasonably known that without some serious vetting. So when you're ready to date, ask about fidelity and future partners' experiences with it. Talk about situation you read some where as a stepping stone to ask about what they would do when faced with a difficult relationship choice. Get some more insight about how they think a long term relationship works. It's not fool proof but it will tell you a lot about whether they are the right person to get involved with or not.


I really have looked at my role in this marriage and want to take away some lessons for future relationships. Like you say, its trial and error, and if you don't learn from your mistakes you are bound to repeat them. I was not looking for a young 23 y/o when I met my wife. In fact, I thought someone that age might be trouble and a few of my friends said don't do it based solely on her age - they thought she was still at the partying stage. Instead, a few older women I knew who knew me and my wife and her family thought we were a good fit. My wife was cooking meals like casseroles for me when we first started dating and already had a job. She was sewing buttons on my clothes and was really nurturing. She seemed mature. I think emotionally though she is very immature. I always worried a bit that she had not dated many guys before me. But she was so damn reliable and loyal and loving for our first three years of dating that all doubts were gone. My wife is the type of woman who goes to a bar or pool and all eyes are on her. But her eyes and attention were always on me - until last Fall apparently. I really don't think I could have predicted any of this and in some ways that makes me feel better. I know I didn't contribute to the A. I am not perfect but many of the flaws I read about on this board and others I simply don't have. I'll be honest - this thread has been very uplifting for me. It's one of the reasons I keep posting.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Clemson said:


> Don't misunderstand me. I'm not hoping she comes back. I'm dreading it. I want to be able to fend her off. Having had some new lady success by then would go a long way. At this point, it would be great if she moves to OM's state and I never see her again. I just don't think that will work out and she'll be back in my city one day coming after me.



Then the best way to fend her off is to become happy with out her, and remind yourself of the pain she caused you...do not lose perspective.
do not be taken in by false words and promises....one of you has to be the grow up, you sadly married a child, she will grow fast being a step mom and soon will find the life she thought she would have will not happen and she will become a second class citizen in her own home when the children visit because you know his guilt will take hold. it will unravel quickly and she will be begging for you to take her back...please please do not.


----------



## Clemson

GuyInColorado said:


> Like others have said, you are in your prime. Finding fun and beautiful girls will not be a problem if you are in half decent shape. Make sure you date multiple women at the same time. Don't fall for the first one. I fell for the second girl and put a ring on her finger after 12 months of dating. I have no regrets, but I believe I got lucky.
> 
> Once she's out of the home, start dating for fun. Just be up front with the girls that you are not settling down and still technically married. A bunch of them will just want to go out and get laid. Live it up for a while. Like the saying goes... Best way to get over someone is to get under someone new!


I do look forward to dating for fun and I want to avoid anything remotely serious for at least a few months.


----------



## Clemson

sokillme said:


> This is where you need to work. As you see that was a waste of time. You should have filed the next day maybe the consequences would have snapped her out of it. Besides that never love someone enough to allow yourself to be abused. Waiting for your spouse to make up their mind is letting them abuse you.


I know and this is one of the issues I am most humiliated about. I never would have thought I would let someone do this to me. It seemed like baby steps at the time and then you look back and say, my God how did I let that happen. My wife is very blunt and the stuff she told me she was thinking is horrible. I was so desperate to hold onto what we had that I failed myself. I'll never let that happen again. She took my confidence and swagger there for a few months after she told me about her A.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I know and this is one of the issues I am most humiliated about. I never would have thought I would let someone do this to me. It seemed like baby steps at the time and then you look back and say, my God how did I let that happen. My wife is very blunt and the stuff she told me she was thinking is horrible. I was so desperate to hold onto what we had that I failed myself. I'll never let that happen again. She took my confidence and swagger there for a few months after she told me about her A.


This is why you must get comfortable being alone. Do not, I repeat do not look for a replacement for your wife. Shape yourself into a person who doesn't ever need to have a partner in order to have happiness and joy in your life. This will give you strength to never accept less then what you should. That doesn't mean don't fall in love again it means never become dependent on someone again.


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> I agree with the others that you should not trust to hope she will come crawling back. They rarely ever do. This relationship of hers may very well succeed and she could go on to be very happy with her choice.


Minor point of objection. 

I don't think it's rare at all. It happened to me and I've read it happening to many others in TAM as well.

I agree it's incredibly unhealthy to be sitting by the phone hoping she will call and to become indifferent enough to move on without her. 

It's best for OP to never contact her and hope she never contacts him again but if she does, to also be mentally prepared to tell her to "**** off".


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## Lostinthought61

One last lesson.....and this for ALL RE-MARRIAGES or GETTING MARRIED again = Pre-nup....protect your investments.


----------



## browser

Lostinthought61 said:


> One last lesson.....and this for ALL RE-MARRIAGES or GETTING MARRIED again = Pre-nup....protect your investments.


The way you wrote that, you make it sound like pre-nups are never challenged or overturned.

They are, all the time, and even if the challenge is lost, you're still looking at a boatload of legal fees to defend yourself.

You want to protect your investments? Don't repeat past mistakes and don't enter a subsequent useless second or third marriage which is a pointless waste of time, effort and unnecessary risk for absolutely no gain.


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## moth-into-flame

At some point, after things with the posom don't work out, she'll probably come crawling back to you.

I hope, for your sake, you're smart enough and strong enough to tell her "never in 100 million years", and show her the door.


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## moth-into-flame

Clemson said:


> I do look forward to dating for fun and I want to avoid anything remotely serious for at least a few months.


It's been 4 years since I left my exww and I still have no desire for a serious relationship. You probably will date quite a bit at some point - but if you're like me, that novelty will wear off and you'll embrace your freedom. Maybe get a lover/fwb. 

Some guys jump right back in and get married again. My exww tainted my view of relationships and marriage so badly that I don't know if I'll ever let someone in again.

But that's neither here nor there right now. Stay strong, focus on yourself, move ahead with D and accept the fact that your stbxww is not the woman you thought she was and never will be. It hurts like a *****, but that's reality. Make your life about you now.


----------



## bandit.45

GuyInColorado said:


> Like others have said, you are in your prime. Finding fun and beautiful girls will not be a problem if you are in half decent shape. Make sure you date multiple women at the same time. Don't fall for the first one. I fell for the second girl and put a ring on her finger after 12 months of dating. I have no regrets, but I believe I got lucky.
> 
> Once she's out of the home, start dating for fun. Just be up front with the girls that you are not settling down and still technically married. A bunch of them will just want to go out and get laid. Live it up for a while. Like the saying goes... Best way to get over someone is to get under someone new!


Yep 

Clemson find a woman with tits as big as the Rockies and a throat as deep as the Grand Canyon.


----------



## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> Minor point of objection.
> 
> I don't think it's rare at all. It happened to me and I've read it happening to many others in TAM as well.
> 
> I agree it's incredibly unhealthy to be sitting by the phone hoping she will call and to become indifferent enough to move on without her.
> 
> It's best for OP to never contact her and hope she never contacts him again but if she does, to also be mentally prepared to tell her to "**** off".


Oh yeah there might be a chance. Say...when she hears he's bedding new ladies. She may try to get him back, but not because she wants him. She just wouldn't want anyone else to have him. 

Dogbone.


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## Lostinthought61

browser said:


> The way you wrote that, you make it sound like pre-nups are never challenged or overturned.
> 
> They are, all the time, and even if the challenge is lost, you're still looking at a boatload of legal fees to defend yourself.
> 
> You want to protect your investments? Don't repeat past mistakes and don't enter a subsequent useless second or third marriage which is a pointless waste of time, effort and unnecessary risk for absolutely no gain.



I disagree with you, i have personally seen it work in a number of cases and i would suggest that it is better to have a little protection than no protection. i am not suggesting it's the end all but it does have some teeth.


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## Clemson

Lostinthought61 said:


> One last lesson.....and this for ALL RE-MARRIAGES or GETTING MARRIED again = Pre-nup....protect your investments.


I actually did a pre-nup and post-nup. Still giving up some decent money but could have been much worse. I tell everyone to do a prenup and if she won't, that's a huge red flag.


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## Clemson

bandit.45 said:


> Oh yeah there might be a chance. Say...when she hears he's bedding new ladies. She may try to get him back, but not because she wants him. She just wouldn't want anyone else to have him.
> 
> Dogbone.


This will be the case. My sister in law already asked her if she would be bothered if I dated someone and my wife does not like the idea of me dating anyone. Crazy


----------



## browser

Lostinthought61 said:


> I disagree with you, i have personally seen it work in a number of cases and i would suggest that it is better to have a little protection than no protection. i am not suggesting it's the end all but it does have some teeth.


I'm not disagreeing with you either. Any possible protection is better than no protection so if you're going to make the mistake of getting married again at least get the prenup, but my point is that if you really want to cover your ASSets, then don't get married PERIOD. There's a ton of risk especially a subsequent marriage when you've got prexisting assets and no real gain except perhaps health insurance or some other benefits that nowadays you probably can get anyway with "domestic partner" status which is what I have with my girlfriend.


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## GusPolinski

Clemson said:


> This will be the case. My sister in law already asked her if she would be bothered if I dated someone and my wife does not like the idea of me dating anyone. Crazy


Of course not. You're hers until she's done with you, and she's not done with you yet.

Why else do you think all of her crap is still under your roof?


----------



## TX-SC

Lostinthought61 said:


> One last lesson.....and this for ALL RE-MARRIAGES or GETTING MARRIED again = Pre-nup....protect your investments.


I had no investments before I got married. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

Clemson said:


> This will be the case. My sister in law already asked her if she would be bothered if I dated someone and my wife does not like the idea of me dating anyone. Crazy


Your job is to remain lost and alone and pining away for her for the rest of your life, so that she can come back to you if she wants to, or else you die from grief and anguish, curled up in the fetal position on the cold floor of the back room of an empty house at the end of some forgotten street.


----------



## Hoosier

Clemson said:


> Good to hear! I am working to get in great shape. It makes it easier without any other time commitments other than work. I'm a popular/fun guy and decent looking. My friends want to have a big "re-releasing into the wild" party for me when the divorce is final. They seem more excited about my prospects than I am.


Of course they are excited for you. Because for the next however long they are going to be living vicariously thru you! 

My wife left me all of a sudden after 30 years for a mutual friend (more hers than mine apparently, Look up Hoosier which was my user name until the great cleansing happened a year or so ago) I was completely lost. A friend told me the exact same thing about availability of women at your age, I am older, but it applies down the line, in the service it is called "target rich environment"! He told me that in your 20's women call all the shots, but after 40, way more women then men, and many of the men available set the bar so low that if you have the three P's (Property, Paycheck, Personality) that you will be in high demand. He was spot on. I know that I have improved more than one marriage. The husband talks to me, finds out how easy it is to date, tells his wife all the stories (hoping she will up her game a bit, and they have!) and has enjoy the benefits, both in the hearing and telling of my stories. 

Time is your answer. I am 5.5 years out from DDay, it took me a couple of years to even start to feel right (length of marriage affects length of recovery) and even in the last year I feel better, work better, than ever. Time is your answer my friend.

So sorry you are here, but I believe in the future you will thank your lucky stars that you had no children with her. Find a good woman, they are out there.


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## ConanHub

I'm telling you. Spanking the hell out of her stupid butt cheeks solves a lot of these immature issues.

She is an entitled, spoiled brat that hasn't apparently been denied enough in her life to appreciate good things and decency.

Start dating my friend.


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## sidney2718

Clemson said:


> This will be the case. My sister in law already asked her if she would be bothered if I dated someone and my wife does not like the idea of me dating anyone. Crazy


Not so crazy. You have been promoted out of husband status and are now put into the role of parent. She wants you to approve of what she's doing and to help her make the transition as painless as possible.

Think about it. You are obviously NOT hated nor despised. You have been and are a major part of her life.


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## bandit.45

But not an important enough part of her life to be respected.


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## Marc878

sidney2718 said:


> Not so crazy. You have been promoted out of husband status and are now put into the role of parent. She wants you to approve of what she's doing and to help her make the transition as painless as possible.
> 
> Think about it. You are obviously NOT hated nor despised. You have been and are a major part of her life.


Of course she'll want to do the "lets be friends" thing.

Not in your best interest.


----------



## honcho

Clemson said:


> This will be the case. My sister in law already asked her if she would be bothered if I dated someone and my wife does not like the idea of me dating anyone. Crazy


In general waywards hate having options taken away from them. The more you start to act independent/single the more she will try and keep you attached. She won't like you packed all her stuff, she won't like you possibly dating, it takes away her perceived control over you.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

bandit.45 said:


> Your job is to remain lost and alone and pining away for her for the rest of *HER* life, so that she can come back to you if she wants to, or else you die from grief and anguish, curled up in the fetal position on the cold floor of the back room of an empty house at the end of some forgotten street.


LOL.
Sorry, just made one small correction in bold. Remember, it is all about "her."


----------



## Clemson

bandit.45 said:


> Your job is to remain lost and alone and pining away for her for the rest of your life, so that she can come back to you if she wants to, or else you die from grief and anguish, curled up in the fetal position on the cold floor of the back room of an empty house at the end of some forgotten street.


This made me laugh out loud. It's so true. She wants me to be devastated about this but has heard from her family that I am doing well. My brother in law told her I look great and he had no idea a divorce could make someone so healthy looking.


----------



## mickybill

Well, she ain't gone yet. She got an apartment, not a ticket the town 1000 miles away. She may never move when she realizes how hard it will be and you have burned her bridge back to you.
If her stuff is still in the house ask her sisters and family to move it to their house by a specific date. Like Mar 10.

By the way...Did you ever contact or talk to the OM wife? Is he really available? He may still be married or in R with his wife or trying to keep his family together. Don;t believe what she tells you he told her, as he might be lying to her to string her along. Personally, if I were the OM and had a sidepiece 1000 miles away who was hot for me, I might be less than honest with her about my marital situation...just sayin.


----------



## Clemson

mickybill said:


> Well, she ain't gone yet. She got an apartment, not a ticket the town 1000 miles away. She may never move when she realizes how hard it will be and you have burned her bridge back to you.
> If her stuff is still in the house ask her sisters and family to move it to their house by a specific date. Like Mar 10.
> 
> By the way...Did you ever contact or talk to the OM wife? Is he really available? He may still be married or in R with his wife or trying to keep his family together. Don;t believe what she tells you he told her, as he might be lying to her to string her along. Personally, if I were the OM and had a sidepiece 1000 miles away who was hot for me, I might be less than honest with her about my marital situation...just sayin.


Good point about OM's wife but its not my problem anymore. I want her to think that's the story until the D is final. She made her bed now sleep in it. After the D, I might reach out to OM's wife but not before. I don't need to antagonize my wife until the D is done. She's moving her crap out next week.


----------



## Evinrude58

Clem,
I don't know what happened. I guess I had to lose you to see what you really meant to me. I was having some kind of midlife crisis or something. I was just crazy for a while. I'm over all that craziness and am going to never mess up like that again. You were the best thing to ever happen to me. All my family warned me and I just was too wrapped up in it all to see it. I swear we never had sex. It was never physical.
That bad married man seduced me and lied to me and preyed on my enotions. 
Tears pouring.
Body limp.

Clem, please get rid of that gorgeous woman half your age that treats you like a freaking king so I can come back and start the same stuff all over when I'm comfortable and secure again....,

Yeah, sure thing babe.

I'd record her telling you it's over and she's just not in love with you anymore. I'd press play when she comes a-knocking.....,

Yeah--- she's not done with Clem yet.


----------



## sokillme

Evinrude58 said:


> Clem,
> I don't know what happened. I guess I had to lose you to see what you really meant to me. I was having some kind of midlife crisis or something. I was just crazy for a while. I'm over all that craziness and am going to never mess up like that again. You were the best thing to ever happen to me. All my family warned me and I just was too wrapped up in it all to see it. I swear we never had sex. It was never physical.
> That bad married man seduced me and lied to me and preyed on my enotions.
> Tears pouring.
> Body limp.


There will be about 5 guys lining up here telling you how great it all is and how to force yourself to stand it.


----------



## bandit.45

Rent a storage unit and throw her crap in there. Pay for a month. Give her the key to the lock and tell her she has to start paying rent on the unit next month or get her stuff out if there. Tell her that first month rent is your farewell gift to her.

By letting her come by to get her stuff a little at a time, you are picking off the scab and not letting the wound heal.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Rent a storage unit and throw her crap in there. Pay for a month. Give her the key to the lock and tell her she has to start paying rent on the unit next month or get her stuff out if there. Tell her that first month rent is your farewell gift to her.
> 
> By letting her come by to get her stuff a little at a time, you are picking off the scab and not letting the wound heal.


Yep.


----------



## Evinrude58

She's doing that littie at a time stuff for one reason: Checking to make sure Clemson is still on the hook. When she figures out he's left the lake, she'll start cutting bait and chumming the water with texts.


----------



## azteca1986

Clemson said:


> I really have looked at my role in this marriage and want to take away some lessons for future relationships. Like you say, its trial and error, and if you don't learn from your mistakes you are bound to repeat them. I was not looking for a young 23 y/o when I met my wife. In fact, I thought someone that age might be trouble and a few of my friends said don't do it based solely on her age - they thought she was still at the partying stage. Instead, a few older women I knew who knew me and my wife and her family thought we were a good fit. My wife was cooking meals like casseroles for me when we first started dating and already had a job. She was sewing buttons on my clothes and was really nurturing. She seemed mature. *I think emotionally though she is very immature. * I always worried a bit that she had not dated many guys before me. But she was so damn reliable and loyal and loving for our first three years of dating that all doubts were gone. My wife is the type of woman who goes to a bar or pool and all eyes are on her. *But her eyes and attention were always on me - until last Fall apparently. * I really don't think I could have predicted any of this and in some ways that makes me feel better. I know I didn't contribute to the A. I am not perfect but many of the flaws I read about on this board and others I simply don't have. I'll be honest - this thread has been very uplifting for me. It's one of the reasons I keep posting.


Clemson, sorry you find yourself here. I think you're handling things really well under the circumstances, for what it's worth. I'm posting to hopefully give you a bit of insight into "WTF just happened?" and reinforce your belief that it's something that couldn't be predicted.

You, of course, know you wife best. We've had posts that talk your wife's intellect and as you've mentioned her emotional immaturity. To expand on the second point:

There is a mindset, that I think is more prevalent in women than men, that *if you're in love with your spouse you won't find other people attractive.* A good friend of mine stated something similar over dinner. My response to her was that I live in a big city with plenty of attractive people, that initial attraction is not something I can control and I wouldn't use it as a barometer of the health of my relationship. I think your wife had the same mindset as my friend.

What's less well known is that women in their early thirties have a spike in their testosterone levels and this can lead in some women to feeling unsatisfied in their life or relationship without really knowing why.

An exert from Women's Infidelity:


> *Stage 2*
> 
> Women at Stage 2 experience reawakened desire stimulated by an encounter outside the marital relationship. Whether these encounters with a "new" man involves sex or remain platonic, *women will typically give a tremendous amount of emotional significance to these encounters.*


Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity

This is what I think happened to your stbxw and explains how she so rapidly replaced you with someone she had only met for a few days. Having that "no eyes for anyone else because I love my partner" mindset + being dissatisfied with her life but not knowing why + the attraction to the new man + testosterone not only making her feel dissatisfied but making sure she did something about it. That's not to give her an out; we're all subject to biological forces and drives but we can override them.

Hope this helps and good luck on your journey.


----------



## Clemson

azteca1986 said:


> Clemson, sorry you find yourself here. I think you're handling things really well under the circumstances, for what it's worth. I'm posting to hopefully give you a bit of insight into "WTF just happened?" and reinforce your belief that it's something that couldn't be predicted.
> 
> You, of course, know you wife best. We've had posts that talk your wife's intellect and as you've mentioned her emotional immaturity. To expand on the second point:
> 
> There is a mindset, that I think is more prevalent in women than men, that *if you're in love with your spouse you won't find other people attractive.* A good friend of mine stated something similar over dinner. My response to her was that I live in a big city with plenty of attractive people, that initial attraction is not something I can control and I wouldn't use it as a barometer of the health of my relationship. I think your wife had the same mindset as my friend.
> 
> What's less well known is that women in their early thirties have a spike in their testosterone levels and this can lead in some women to feeling unsatisfied in their life or relationship without really knowing why.
> 
> An exert from Women's Infidelity:
> Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity
> 
> This is what I think happened to your stbxw and explains how she so rapidly replaced you with someone she had only met for a few days. Having that "no eyes for anyone else because I love my partner" mindset + being dissatisfied with her life but not knowing why + the attraction to the new man + testosterone not only making her feel dissatisfied but making sure she did something about it. That's not to give her an out; we're all subject to biological forces and drives but we can override them.
> 
> Hope this helps and good luck on your journey.


Thanks for the info. That is consistent with our counselor who said women in their early 30's are vulnerable to this. I wish she would have mentioned any unhappiness but she was probably confused and she is a poor communicator. I read the article you linked and there are several valid points there. My wife did have an identity crisis this last fall and is still having one. She suddenly felt dissatisfied with the marriage and had no explanation so she blamed our marriage for not meeting her needs out of the blue. The article seems to excuse her A but I still think she was weak at the moment of temptation. It's one thing to have feelings but another to act. Plus the betrayal was especially hard. One of the weeks I was in trial in the most stressful time in my life and she's screwing this other guy and texting me good luck each night. Trial ended up very successfully but it will always be tainted for me.

And then aside from the A there is the decision to choose OM over me once the A became known. To me, that is inexcusable.


----------



## azteca1986

Clemson said:


> Thanks for the info. That is consistent with our counselor who said women in their early 30's are vulnerable to this. I wish she would have mentioned any unhappiness but she was probably confused and *she is a poor communicator.* I read the article you linked and there are several valid points there. My wife did have an identity crisis this last fall and is still having one. She suddenly felt dissatisfied with the marriage and had no explanation so she blamed our marriage for not meeting her needs out of the blue.


And as you've said communication could have avoided this situation. No one can meet the needs of their spouse if they are unaware of them.


> The article seems to excuse her A but I still think she was weak at the moment of temptation.


Bear in mind the article, website and accompanying book is written by someone that cheated on their husband and followed that pattern. Betrayed husbands aren't the target audience, so she's trying to be nonjudgmental. But I hope it helps answer the inevitable questions you'll be having of "How could the A have been avoided?" or "Why didn't I see this coming?". Affairs can and do happen in good marriages and they are 100% the fault of the person having the affair.


> It's one thing to have feelings but another to act.


Absoluetly.


> And then aside from the A there is the decision to choose OM over me once the A became known. To me, that is inexcusable.


Yes, it's particularly brutal. The sad thing is she's just chasing a feeling. Affair partners will tell each other "No one makes me _feel_ the way you do". It's just chemically-induced feeling and yet we see people trash good relationships day after day for feelings that will fade.


----------



## Hoosier

oh, and about her stuff. My x gave me a list of 12 items she wanted, that was all. I still loaded box after box up of her stuff, put it on the porch. I told her 30 days to come get it, after that all going to trash. When she set up a time to get the stuff, I had mutual friends there to oversee. She didnt like them there, but I explained it was best for both of us, no problems occured maybe/maybe not because they were there. It ended up being 6 pickup loads (OM house was only half mile away where she was taking it) . I had had a talk with my friend the OM, a month or so earlier. He had bragged that he had finally decluttered his home, how good it felt. So I launched operation "Fill him up" lol

Key point, get rid of it, fast, efficently, I like the idea of the storage paid for one month, let her deal with her crap.


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## bandit.45

Evinrude58 said:


> She's doing that littie at a time stuff for one reason: Checking to make sure Clemson is still on the hook. When she figures out he's left the lake, she'll start cutting bait and chumming the water with texts.


_"come down here and chum some of this sh!t"......_


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## badmemory

Clemson said:


> And then aside from the A there is the decision to choose OM over me once the A became known. To me, that is inexcusable.


There is a silver lining to that. There is no mental anguish about whether to R. You can put her in your rear view mirror, recover and move past this that much sooner.


----------



## DonaldDuck666

GusPolinski said:


> Let her go.
> 
> No kids? That's awesome.
> 
> Double down on NC and 180.
> 
> Put her things in storage and send her the key. Better yet, take it all to her parents' house and leave it there.
> 
> Cut her out of your life to the absolute furthest degree possible: unfriend and block her on social media, change email addresses, phone numbers, etc. Whatever you have to do.
> 
> In the future, stay away from women in their early 20's.


This reply should be a sticky. Esp the last part. As soon as I saw her initial age, none of what happened surprised me. There should be laws against getting married before 30.


----------



## manwithnoname

Evinrude58 said:


> She's doing that littie at a time stuff for one reason: Checking to make sure Clemson is still on the hook. When she figures out he's left the lake, she'll start cutting bait and chumming the water with texts.


4 fishing analogies in two lines: Awesome!


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## TX-SC

DonaldDuck666 said:


> This reply should be a sticky. Esp the last part. As soon as I saw here initial age, none of what happened surprised me. There should be laws against getting married before 30.


My wife was 22 and I was 27 when we married. It really depends on the person, not the age. After 23 years together, we have now been together longer than her age when we married.  

I do agree though that generally its better to wait a little later to marry. I personally wanted a few years of just me and the wife as a couple before introducing kids to the mix. It worked for us. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## GTdad

TX-SC said:


> My wife was 22 and I was 27 when we married. It really depends on the person, not the age. After 23 years together, we have now been together longer than her age when we married.
> 
> I do agree though that generally its better to wait a little later to marry. I personally wanted a few years of just me and the wife as a couple before introducing kids to the mix. It worked for us.


I agree, but at the same time I see his point. My wife and I were 21 and 19. That was 33 years ago, but it was a challenge in those early years. We both had a lot of growing up to do, and it's a wonder that we saw them through together.

I think Clemson will handle this as well as such things can be handled. You wouldn't wish this sort of pain on your worst enemy, but he has the right mind set to see this through.


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## Clemson

azteca1986 said:


> And as you've said communication could have avoided this situation. No one can meet the needs of their spouse if they are unaware of them. Bear in mind the article, website and accompanying book is written by someone that cheated on their husband and followed that pattern. Betrayed husbands aren't the target audience, so she's trying to be nonjudgmental. But I hope it helps answer the inevitable questions you'll be having of "How could the A have been avoided?" or "Why didn't I see this coming?". Affairs can and do happen in good marriages and they are 100% the fault of the person having the affair.
> Absoluetly.
> Yes, it's particularly brutal. The sad thing is she's just chasing a feeling. Affair partners will tell each other "No one makes me _feel_ the way you do". It's just chemically-induced feeling and yet we see people trash good relationships day after day for feelings that will fade.


The article is very consistent with my wife's actions and I believe her emotions but it is written in a way to suggest all the events are outside her control and she can't overcome them. Makes it sound like if you are married to any woman in her early 30's or approaching them that you better hold on for a rough ride when I don't think its necessarily true. If it was out of her hands, some men could then justify taking their wives back. My wife was mentally weak and she took the easy way out to be selfish. I think she confuses love with being "in love". I don't like to think that this whole ordeal was out of her hands because of biology. But I do appreciate the link to understand what happened. 

I will always remember one of the last days together we went to church and the message was basically that the end of the world could happen any day and you need to have your house in order to meet God. The pastor made it clear that meant get your moral house in order - not that you only live once so do whatever you like. Yet my wife, sitting right next to me, took it to mean life is short and you have to enjoy each day. It justified the affair and being happy today. It was stunning how she took away a message that justified her actions which defied everything we just heard.


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Thanks for the info. That is consistent with our counselor who said women in their early 30's are vulnerable to this. I wish she would have mentioned any unhappiness but she was probably confused and she is a poor communicator. I read the article you linked and there are several valid points there. My wife did have an identity crisis this last fall and is still having one. She suddenly felt dissatisfied with the marriage and had no explanation so she blamed our marriage for not meeting her needs out of the blue. The article seems to excuse her A but I still think she was weak at the moment of temptation. It's one thing to have feelings but another to act. Plus the betrayal was especially hard. One of the weeks I was in trial in the most stressful time in my life and she's screwing this other guy and texting me good luck each night. Trial ended up very successfully but it will always be tainted for me.
> 
> And then aside from the A there is the decision to choose OM over me once the A became known. To me, that is inexcusable.


This is really not a women thing it's an everybody thing. People with character just don't cheat. People without it often do. This is why character is key. Everyone at times in their lives want to escape or wonder if there is better. Even if they are happy, that is a part of the human condition. The thing that keeps people from cheating is doing the right thing because it is the right thing. 

That is what you should be looking for.


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> The article is very consistent with my wife's actions and I believe her emotions but it is written in a way to suggest all the events are outside her control and she can't overcome them. Makes it sound like if you are married to any woman in her early 30's or approaching them that you better hold on for a rough ride when I don't think its necessarily true. If it was out of her hands, some men could then justify taking their wives back. My wife was mentally weak and she took the easy way out to be selfish. I think she confuses love with being "in love". I don't like to think that this whole ordeal was out of her hands because of biology. But I do appreciate the link to understand what happened.
> 
> I will always remember one of the last days together we went to church and the message was basically that the end of the world could happen any day and you need to have your house in order to meet God. The pastor made it clear that meant get your moral house in order - not that you only live once so do whatever you like. Yet my wife, sitting right next to me, took it to mean life is short and you have to enjoy each day. It justified the affair and being happy today. It was stunning how she took away a message that justified her actions which defied everything we just heard.


Yeah this is kind of the equivalent of the men who are like, I can't help it I am horny and she was busy with the kids. Our natures should not be an excuse to abuse others. This is not what is expected in a civilized society. Remember this when she tries to get you back. Think of the relationship as a fun time, but not long term. You got just about the best you could out of it, like a car you enjoyed for years but is not too broken to run anymore. 

I find lots of articles targeted to women seem to leave out their own agency. Ironically it's seems to be the most strident feminist magazines who preach this stuff the most. I believe it is really just justification for bad behavior and selfishness. There are plenty of women who don't think this way. Lots of them on here. Women who think with this kind of philosophy were always a huge red flag for me though. If a person is blaming their bad behavior on anything else then there own poor actions run, run fast. 



> If it was out of her hands, some men could then justify taking their wives back.


Um you haven't read a lot of these threads have you? So many do. So many women too.


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## WasDecimated

> I know and this is one of the issues I am most humiliated about. I never would have thought I would let someone do this to me. It seemed like baby steps at the time and then you look back and say, my God how did I let that happen. My wife is very blunt and the stuff she told me she was thinking is horrible. I was so desperate to hold onto what we had that I failed myself. I'll never let that happen again. She took my confidence and swagger there for a few months after she told me about her A.


I felt the same way as you did and my XWW sucked all the life out of me. My weakness for her was obvious and she exploited it. By the time the divorce was final I had no confidence and self-esteem left. I too am ashamed and humiliated by the way I handled the whole situation. No contact was the only way to distance myself from her and begin to rebuild. Try not to dwell on what you did or failed to do. Time and distance are your best friend.



> This is why you must get comfortable being alone. Do not, I repeat do not look for a replacement for your wife. Shape yourself into a person who doesn't ever need to have a partner in order to have happiness and joy in your life. This will give you strength to never accept less then what you should. That doesn't mean don't fall in love again it means never become dependent on someone again.


^^^This 1000%. Don’t be in a hurry to replace what you lost. My first instinct was to do just that. I know a lot of men that were re-married within two years. That was a disastrous mistake for some. You will need time to let all of this really sink in and to learn and grow from it. Only then, will you be ready to let someone else into your life. Remember, broken people attract broken people. 



> I agree with the others that you should not trust to hope she will come crawling back. They rarely ever do. This relationship of hers may very well succeed and she could go on to be very happy with her choice.


Don’t count on her crawling back. In fact, don’t even think about it. You must consider that idea dead. I don’t think most XWW’s come back. None of my guy friends, that went through this, had an XWW come back. In general, from what I’ve seen, when they fall out of love…they stay out of love. I’ve been divorced for over 4. My XWW’s posOM dumped her years ago but she didn’t come back. She just went on to the next guy. If yours does crawl back sometime in the future, have a rejection statement rehearsed and ready, and then slam the door in her face.


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## bandit.45

Decimated said:


> Don’t be in a hurry to replace what you lost. My first instinct was to do just that. I know a lot of men that were re-married within two years. That was a disastrous mistake for some. You will need time to let all of this really sink in and to learn and grow from it. Only then, will you be ready to let someone else into your life. Remember, broken people attract broken people.
> 
> Don’t count on her crawling back. In fact, don’t even think about it. You must consider that idea dead. I don’t think most XWW’s come back. None of my guy friends, that went through this, had an XWW come back. In general, from what I’ve seen, when they fall out of love…they stay out of love. I’ve been divorced for over 4. My XWW’s posOM dumped her years ago but she didn’t come back. She just went on to the next guy. If yours does crawl back sometime in the future, have a rejection statement rehearsed and ready, and then slam the door in her face.


QFT.

Listen to D here. When a woman loses love and respect for her husband....it is gone... 

A woman doesn't just pull the switch on her love. She pulls it, rips off the wall plate, yanks the wiring out, and crams concrete in the hole it came out of. There is a finality to the way women settle their feelings that men just do not possess.

Her love for you is gone, gone, gone and it won't ever come back. You may not have done anything to deserve her losing love and respect for you, but for whatever reasons she did and that is that. So best to just move on, care for yourself, and start to build a new and exciting life for yourself. The path is wide open for you. Think of it: you have no one to answer to anymore but yourself. That is an incredible gift, so use it.


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## Talker67

Clemson said:


> Makes it sound like if you are married to any woman in her early 30's or approaching them that you better hold on for a rough ride.


There IS such a thing as the "Seven Year Itch". they even wrote a movie about it. Marriages have their ups and downs, along with the sex in marriage. And you want to keep working at them, hard, when you notice your marriage is in a down cycle. That will keep the birds singing and the sun coming up in the East!


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## mhalbert14

I'm deeply sorry for the end of your marriage. A marriage ending is as difficult as losing a loved one in death. It's a sacred unity that must be honored in more ways than one. Your wife CHOOSE to dishonor that unity. 

Everyone has a choice. She made hers. Unfortunately you are left with the suffering while she is beginning a new chapter in her life. But you know what so are you. I know at times it's going to be very upsetting. There will be times where it will feel like a new leaf has been turned over 

This is a new chapter in your life too! Try to look at the glass half full rather than half empty. 

Think about it. A new chance at finding true unconditional love. Meeting new people. Doing new things. The structure you had with your wife is gone. The routines of having your wife are gone. You can do anything! 

You will get through this. Right now you are saddened by the loss of your wife. Mourn that loss. You will get through it. You'll go through stages of being sad , angry, and careless. 

It will get better but as everyone else has said NO CONTACT. OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND. do the very best you can to limit all contact. It's for the best. Good luck to you and god bless 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hopeful Cynic

Clemson said:


> I will always remember one of the last days together we went to church and the message was basically that the end of the world could happen any day and you need to have your house in order to meet God. The pastor made it clear that meant get your moral house in order - not that you only live once so do whatever you like. Yet my wife, sitting right next to me, took it to mean life is short and you have to enjoy each day. It justified the affair and being happy today. It was stunning how she took away a message that justified her actions which defied everything we just heard.


People hear what they want to hear. If she's remotely religious, she probably harbours fears she'll go to Hell for her adultery. Interpreting a sermon otherwise makes her feel better and less guilty.


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## TheTruthHurts

TX-SC said:


> My wife was 22 and I was 27 when we married. It really depends on the person, not the age. After 23 years together, we have now been together longer than her age when we married.
> 
> I do agree though that generally its better to wait a little later to marry. I personally wanted a few years of just me and the wife as a couple before introducing kids to the mix. It worked for us.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk




19 / 20 when we met; dated 6 years; married 29. No 7 year itch. Character and devotion to each other and always placing each other over everything else. It's not hard but you have to get lucky when you pick them 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Clemson

Talker67 said:


> There IS such a thing as the "Seven Year Itch". they even wrote a movie about it. Marriages have their ups and downs, along with the sex in marriage. And you want to keep working at them, hard, when you notice your marriage is in a down cycle. That will keep the birds singing and the sun coming up in the East!


This is the kind of thing that makes me sad and thinking that I should and could have done more in the marriage and maybe could have prevented all this. I took my wife for granted the last 1-2 years. I noticed we were in a bit of a down cycle in the fall but chalked it up to our busy schedules and thought we'd get back to us in November. We didn't get there and that's a painful lesson to learn. I didn't think we were at risk of an affair - an affair never was on my radar actually. Now I know everyone is at risk. I should have paid her more attention instead of work but it was short term and a new business and I thought she understood I was doing it for us.

My wife seemed happy and never voiced any concerns, unhappiness or unfulfilment. We had just been on a great trip to the Caribbean 6 months earlier. I looked at my old texts and even just before the affair my wife was texting me on her business trip that she missed me like crazy and couldn't wait to be home. The sex had gotten a little stale and we were both busy in our new roles but we still had fun and seemed to love each other deeply. I didn't see the warning signs and now I'm left second guessing myself sometimes. 

Our divorce is now set for final hearing on May 2. I am ready to be done with it. I want to forget how great our marriage was because this ending never should have happened.


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## bandit.45

You didn't do anything wrong. All marriages get a little stale, all marriages get a little bit neglected due to work and outside forces. Mature people with good morals and principals are able to glide over these drought periods and not cheat on their marriages. 

Your wife cheated because she was weak, poor at communicating, and was willing to sacrifice her ethics and morals for a quick fix to her perceived unhappiness. '

Stop blaming yourself. Seriously.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## brooklynAnn

I have to agree with bandit. You did nothing wrong in your marriage. Being busy and working more for a few months while in a new job is to be expected. This is something that your wife knew about and should have expected. What she did however, was wrong. 

Marriage goes thru cycles, it's not a static thing that stays the same. How you deal with those changes says a lot about who you are as a thinking being. She made a choice to have an affair and to stay with him. You had no say in this matter. 

Stop blaming yourself for her destructive actions. 

If she was so lonely and unhappy, she would have most likely complained to her sisters about it and would have given you some hints that she is miserable. Since, she did neither of these things says to me that an opportunity presented itself and she took it.

Maybe, I am naive in my thinking but I always think that I don't want to stay married to someone who choose to be with someone else. I should always be your choice. The moment you choose someone else, I am done. Why fight for someone who does not want you. 

Be glad that she will be out of life soon. Life will get better. You will become a better man for this. Good luck.


----------



## Evinrude58

Please don't fall into the trap of blaming yourself for this. Marriage is team work. Instead of choosing to work on her marriage and fix whatever was there that she didn't like, she chose to go outside the marriage and find whatever it was she wanted elsewhere.

There was probably absolutely nothing you could have done YOURSELF to stop this. Had she communicated with you and let you know she was upset about something, you know yourself you would have done whatever it took to fix it.

Your wife messed up. She will almost surely fail in life. The good news is in a couple of years, this won't be such a huge deal to you as far as day to day pain. I suspect in a couple of years, her life will be a total shambles, and it will be her own fault.

Accept it happened, accept that it's out of your hands now, accept that you can be happy again.

Personally, I would do anything to have handled my divorce as well as you're handling yours. Just want to say I admire you and wish you well. I assure you, there are going to be many women that want to love you. Just do your best to make sure they love YOU and not what you can do for them.


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## bandit.45

brooklynAnn said:


> I have to agree with bandit. You did nothing wrong in your marriage. Being busy and working more for a few months while in a new job is to be expected. This is something that your wife knew about and should have expected. What she did however, was wrong.
> 
> *Marriage goes thru cycles, it's not a static thing that stays the same. How you deal with those changes says a lot about who you are as a thinking being. She made a choice to have an affair and to stay with him. You had no say in this matter.
> 
> Stop blaming yourself for her destructive actions.
> 
> If she was so lonely and unhappy, she would have most likely complained to her sisters about it and would have given you some hints that she is miserable. Since, she did neither of these things says to me that an opportunity presented itself and she took it.
> 
> Maybe, I am naive in my thinking but I always think that I don't want to stay married to someone who choose to be with someone else. I should always be your choice. The moment you choose someone else, I am done. Why fight for someone who does not want you.
> 
> Be glad that she will be out of life soon. Life will get better. You will become a better man for this. Good luck.*


QFT.

OP print this out and stick it to your bathroom mirror and read it three times a day.


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## bandit.45

Clemson are you practicing *the 180*?


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## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> You didn't do anything wrong. All marriages get a little stale, all marriages get a little bit neglected due to work and outside forces. Mature people with good morals and principals are able to glide over these drought periods and not cheat on their marriages.
> 
> Your wife cheated because she was weak, poor at communicating, and was willing to sacrifice her ethics and morals for a quick fix to her perceived unhappiness. '
> 
> Stop blaming yourself. Seriously.





TheTruthHurts said:


> 29 years married here after 6 years dating. I will say unequivocally you could NOT have prevented this.
> 
> Of course there are times to focus on work and time to focus on kids and time to focus on elderly family and friends. Solid boundaries and a solid character is all it takes to whether these periods, assuming one partner isn't actively hurting the other.
> 
> I travelled for 9 years and we remained close and committed.
> 
> Your w has weak character. It doesn't mean she's good or bad - just weak and not even minimally self-sufficient. My w totally relies on my for many things (and I rely on her) but that doesn't mean we're weak.
> 
> This will hurt for a long time I suspect. Mostly because it is senseless and only happened because of your W's character issues. That's what will suck.





brooklynAnn said:


> I have to agree with bandit. You did nothing wrong in your marriage. Being busy and working more for a few months while in a new job is to be expected. This is something that your wife knew about and should have expected. What she did however, was wrong.
> 
> Marriage goes thru cycles, it's not a static thing that stays the same. How you deal with those changes says a lot about who you are as a thinking being. She made a choice to have an affair and to stay with him. You had no say in this matter.
> 
> Stop blaming yourself for her destructive actions.
> 
> If she was so lonely and unhappy, she would have most likely complained to her sisters about it and would have given you some hints that she is miserable. Since, she did neither of these things says to me that an opportunity presented itself and she took it.
> 
> Maybe, I am naive in my thinking but I always think that I don't want to stay married to someone who choose to be with someone else. I should always be your choice. The moment you choose someone else, I am done. Why fight for someone who does not want you.
> 
> Be glad that she will be out of life soon. Life will get better. You will become a better man for this. Good luck.


----------



## Clemson

Yes I'm doing 180. Just the divorce final date being set and the comment about working hard on your marriage at the 7 year point brought up some nostalgia. I obviously don't want it to work with her now but I think it's part of the grieving process that I'm wondering if I could have prevented it. I think it would be easier to handle if I had been a drunk or cheated on her, etc. But I didn't and I think even her family would tell you I was a great husband and fun guy. I really do think she is a weak person with lack of true character and integrity. She's very immature. I always thought she acted like a young girl and that made her sweet and loving but now I see a young girl who doesn't see the forest for the trees. She destroyed a great long-term marriage for a short term feeling. Thanks for everyone's thoughts and encouragement.


----------



## Taxman

Keep us in the loop, you are handling this wonderfully.

Based on experiences in my practice, I predict that sometime in summer, her world will come crashing down. The OM will likely dump her, likely blaming her for the losses of kids, income etc etc. She will try to come back. Given what you have said here, you will tell her in no uncertain terms, that she has no further part in your world. By that time, one can assume ithat her affair will have been noticed and she may have scrutiny at work or lost her job completely. She had screwed her support system and literally may have nothing left.

Will look good on her. Let her rebuild alone.


----------



## newlab

Sounds like you have made a good decision. Whatever you think of your wife before (immature, lack of true character), she is not.


----------



## bandit.45

Clemson said:


> Yes I'm doing 180. Just the divorce final date being set and the comment about working hard on your marriage at the 7 year point brought up some nostalgia. I obviously don't want it to work with her now but I think it's part of the grieving process that I'm wondering if I could have prevented it. I think it would be easier to handle if I had been a drunk or cheated on her, etc. But I didn't and I think even her family would tell you I was a great husband and fun guy. I really do think she is a weak person with lack of true character and integrity. She's very immature. I always thought she acted like a young girl and that made her sweet and loving but now I see a young girl who doesn't see the forest for the trees. She destroyed a great long-term marriage for a short term feeling. Thanks for everyone's thoughts and encouragement.


One sad fact you need to accept is that there are some people who MUST fail in their lives. Your wife had to fail. It is in her nature to do so. She had to take a great life and throw it away because she just had to. I only discovered this later in my life, but there are just some people who are like ticking time bombs. They cannot be happy with success and good things. They get to a critical mass and they just explode. 

Don't try to understand it. Don't try to reason it. Your WW would have done this regardless of who she married or how good her marriage was.

P.S. Don't hold out to hope she will come crawling back. They rarely ever do. And even if she did, would you really want a tainted human like her back in your life?


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Yes I'm doing 180. Just the divorce final date being set and the comment about working hard on your marriage at the 7 year point brought up some nostalgia. I obviously don't want it to work with her now but I think it's part of the grieving process that I'm wondering if I could have prevented it. I think it would be easier to handle if I had been a drunk or cheated on her, etc. But I didn't and I think even her family would tell you I was a great husband and fun guy. I really do think she is a weak person with lack of true character and integrity. She's very immature. I always thought she acted like a young girl and that made her sweet and loving but now I see a young girl who doesn't see the forest for the trees. She destroyed a great long-term marriage for a short term feeling. Thanks for everyone's thoughts and encouragement.


Get your self worth and even you feelings about the success of this marriage from your own character. You didn't fail you were honorable you were a good husband. You picked the wrong partner, that was the mistake you made, but then again you didn't have all the facts, you soon to be ex might not have, she still doesn't have the maturity to be married. 

You have proven you can do this, you didn't cheat, you wouldn't cheat. You are a responsible adult who makes a good living. This makes you a very valuable person in a marriage. 

It is fruitless to try to evaluate yourself by others decisions. You have no control over them so you can't even fix that. The only thing you can change is yourself. In this case you just bought a lemon. It happens. Move on and find a prize. Enjoy the heck out of dating.


----------



## billbird2111

manwithnoname said:


> She's already chosen the OM, you're not even plan B at this point unless she returns in the future. Be done with her.


I know this advice from the man with no name hurts, Clemson. Trust me, I know. But he's right. You are no Plan B. You're not even a Plan Z. Your wife has moved on without you. This is something you must accept.

I know this because your story is VERY similar to mine. I wasn't just married. I was married to my best friend. We did everything together. We both had the same loves in life. From cooking to gardening to baseball to football, we were simpatico in every way, shape and form. It was a beautiful life. I was very, very happy. Until "it" happened. Normally, it's some event in our lives that changes things. For you, it sounds like work. For me, it was the death of my wife's brother. She simply changed overnight. She became a different woman, and only had eyes for the OM. For a long time I stuck it out, hoping she would come back. I considered myself a Plan B. I wasn't even in the picture. And I'm sorry to say my friend, neither are you.

Someone on this forum put it into pretty good language for me to follow: "The new woman she became murdered your wife. Grieve for her. She's not coming back."

It will be a year in May since she left. The date continues to march closer with every passing day. There are still bad days, but they don't come nearly as often as they once did. While I do know several other men who went through this and wound up reconciling with their wives years after the separation, I wouldn't hold out any hope for that. Still, I can tell you this much. She will begin to miss you. It will take a period of several years for this to happen. But as time moves forward she will begin to remember the things you did together and she will begin to miss you terribly.

But, while it's harder on men during the first year, men also recover faster. While ex-wives head into a funk in the second and third year over what they've done, the husbands pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and start moving again. In my case I had some help from three or four friends who came out of the woodwork. They call or text every week to five days like clockwork. When they sense that I'm getting low, they extend an invitation to dinner. One woman baked me a loaf of banana bread (which was very good). Still another invited me over to a Super Bowl party that he hosted. Doing these things was strange and hard at first. You will be miserable. But it does get better. Trust me, it does.

If your wife ever does come around, and that's a big if, you've got to decide to choose the path of patience and forgiveness, or closing the border. It will be up to you. You will be in control again.


----------



## sokillme

I think it is important to say pining away for someone who discarded you like garbage is no path for healing. See them for who they are now and thank God to be rid of them. There is a point when the emotions of grieving must be dominated with the intellectual understanding of what you are truly missing. The intrusive thought must be addressed by purposeful thoughts of the reality not romantic notions. 

So many BS agonize over a dream that they never really had, they wish to return to something that never really was. The romantic notions of what you thought had need to be killed in the harsh light of reality.


----------



## bandit.45

billbird2111 said:


> I know this advice from the man with no name hurts, Clemson. Trust me, I know. But he's right. You are no Plan B. You're not even a Plan Z. Your wife has moved on without you. This is something you must accept.
> 
> I know this because your story is VERY similar to mine. I wasn't just married. I was married to my best friend. We did everything together. We both had the same loves in life. From cooking to gardening to baseball to football, we were simpatico in every way, shape and form. It was a beautiful life. I was very, very happy. Until "it" happened. Normally, it's some event in our lives that changes things. For you, it sounds like work. For me, it was the death of my wife's brother. She simply changed overnight. She became a different woman, and only had eyes for the OM. For a long time I stuck it out, hoping she would come back. I considered myself a Plan B. I wasn't even in the picture. And I'm sorry to say my friend, neither are you.
> 
> Someone on this forum put it into pretty good language for me to follow: "The new woman she became murdered your wife. Grieve for her. She's not coming back."
> 
> It will be a year in May since she left. The date continues to march closer with every passing day. There are still bad days, but they don't come nearly as often as they once did. While I do know several other men who went through this and wound up reconciling with their wives years after the separation, I wouldn't hold out any hope for that. Still, I can tell you this much. She will begin to miss you. It will take a period of several years for this to happen. But as time moves forward she will begin to remember the things you did together and she will begin to miss you terribly.
> 
> But, while it's harder on men during the first year, men also recover faster. While ex-wives head into a funk in the second and third year over what they've done, the husbands pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and start moving again. In my case I had some help from three or four friends who came out of the woodwork. They call or text every week to five days like clockwork. When they sense that I'm getting low, they extend an invitation to dinner. One woman baked me a loaf of banana bread (which was very good). Still another invited me over to a Super Bowl party that he hosted. Doing these things was strange and hard at first. You will be miserable. But it does get better. Trust me, it does.
> 
> If your wife ever does come around, and that's a big if, you've got to decide to choose the path of patience and forgiveness, or closing the border. It will be up to you. You will be in control again.


Clemson, if the planets do align and Mercury goes into permanent retrograde and your WW does try to come back one day down the road, don't just accept her back with no strings. Tell her she will be one of many women you will date. She will have to compete for your affections, and prove she is worthy of a second chance. She must be willing to accept "no" when you snatch a younger, newer, hotter woman with no track record of being a slooty sloot, and be okay with it.


----------



## Clemson

I am not holding out hope she comes back. Nor would I take her back. I just remembered what we had and had some sad feelings. Wishing it never happened - but it did. I too have had a bunch of friends come out of the woodwork. My job involves lots of networking so I have enough people wanting to do stuff that I actually told my sister I'm so busy that I don't know how I was ever married and had time for a wife. I am looking forward to dating. I do think I'll feel better about dating once the divorce is final though. Each day is definitely better. I realized last night I've been living alone now for 1 month since she left and it isn't depressing anymore. I actually find that I don't know where the night has gone because I'm so busy each night.


----------



## GusPolinski

Got any pets?


----------



## Clemson

GusPolinski said:


> Got any pets?


No pets. Thought about getting a dog. Don't know if I want to have to take care of it but he companionship is nice. I had one growing up.


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## GusPolinski

Clemson said:


> No pets. Thought about getting a dog. Don't know if I want to have to take care of it but he companionship is nice. I had one growing up.


Get a German Shepherd.

Oh, and a good vacuum.


----------



## MyRevelation

Clemson said:


> No pets. Thought about getting a dog. Don't know if I want to have to take care of it but he companionship is nice. I had one growing up.


Just to offer up my own experiences ... I'm a hobby breeder/trainer of bird dogs and also guide some on the side, so my dogs are more than just pets and more like hunting buddies and travelling companions, but when I was at my LOWEST, the unconditional love I got form my dogs, especially my top dog, may very well have been the reason I made it through to be typing this right now. Even after I got through the worst parts, it was amazing the healing and calmness I got from coming home and getting out of the house to work and spend time with my dogs, especially the young one's. An hours worth of time spent with them seemed to recharge me and improve my mood enough to keep putting one foot in front of the other and actually start enjoying aspects of my life again. They also gave me something that was completely unrelated the ****storm swirling around me to enjoy and look forward to doing.

So, if you've got the room for a dog, I'd highly recommend getting one for your own sanity maintenance. If you'd like to discuss particular breeds, shoot me a PM and I'll share what I know. Good Luck to you!


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> Get a German Shepherd.
> 
> Oh, and a good vacuum.


No no...French Bulldog. They are awesome and they don't shed.


----------



## bandit.45

MyRevelation said:


> Just to offer up my own experiences ... I'm a hobby breeder/trainer of bird dogs and also guide some on the side, so my dogs are more than just pets and more like hunting buddies and travelling companions, but when I was at my LOWEST, the unconditional love I got form my dogs, especially my top dog, may very well have been the reason I made it through to be typing this right now. Even after I got through the worst parts, it was amazing the healing and calmness I got from coming home and getting out of the house to work and spend time with my dogs, especially the young one's. An hours worth of time spent with them seemed to recharge me and improve my mood enough to keep putting one foot in front of the other and actually start enjoying aspects of my life again. They also gave me something that was completely unrelated the ****storm swirling around me to enjoy and look forward to doing.
> 
> So, if you've got the room for a dog, I'd highly recommend getting one for your own sanity maintenance. If you'd like to discuss particular breeds, shoot me a PM and I'll share what I know. Good Luck to you!


I recommend French Brittany. Great, close-in grouse and quail dog. They are calm and have awesome personalities and they aren't hyperactive like Pointers. They stay close to you, you don't have to worry about chasing them all over hell's creation.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> No no...French Bulldog. They are awesome and they don't shed.


A GSD (and _especially_ a female GSD) would have the added advantage of making it _extremely_ clear to his STBXWW that she's not welcome should she try to come crawling back.

Super loyal, super protective, and super lovable.


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## billbird2111

MyRevelation said:


> Just to offer up my own experiences ... I'm a hobby breeder/trainer of bird dogs and also guide some on the side, so my dogs are more than just pets and more like hunting buddies and travelling companions, but when I was at my LOWEST, the unconditional love I got form my dogs, especially my top dog, may very well have been the reason I made it through to be typing this right now. Even after I got through the worst parts, it was amazing the healing and calmness I got from coming home and getting out of the house to work and spend time with my dogs, especially the young one's. An hours worth of time spent with them seemed to recharge me and improve my mood enough to keep putting one foot in front of the other and actually start enjoying aspects of my life again. They also gave me something that was completely unrelated the ****storm swirling around me to enjoy and look forward to doing.
> 
> So, if you've got the room for a dog, I'd highly recommend getting one for your own sanity maintenance. If you'd like to discuss particular breeds, shoot me a PM and I'll share what I know. Good Luck to you!


This is good advice. When my wife split, I made sure to take the dog and cat with me. I couldn't trust her. Bandana is just a mutt that I adopted off a working horse ranch in southern Oregon back in 2010. She was just a pup. When my wife left, Bandana (Bandi for short), started walking. We started slowly at first. But now we do a five mile loop every single day of the week, including weekends. I've lost 80 lbs. She's lost 12. She likes to chase squirrels through the park. I chase the women. It works out for the both of us.

Oh, yeah, she sheds like crazy. Even during the winter months. That hair has led to the untimely deaths of three vacuum cleaners. But I wouldn't trade Bandi for all the tea in China.


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## thenub

bandit.45 said:


> No no...French Bulldog. They are awesome and they don't shed.




Or a manly dog like a Rottweiler or Bullmastiff. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> A GSD (and _especially_ a female GSD) would have the added advantage of making it _extremely_ clear to his STBXWW that she's not welcome should she try to come crawling back.
> 
> Super loyal, super protective, and super lovable.


I had a GS when I was a kid. She got killed by a cougar :frown2:. She was a great companion and really watched out for me, but she had a penchant for getting into neighbors' yards and killing their chickens.


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## bandit.45

thenub said:


> Or a manly dog like a Rottweiler or Bullmastiff.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey! FB are very tough little dogs. They may be small but they have spunk and fight in them.


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## browser

bandit.45 said:


> I had a GS when I was a kid. She got killed by a cougar :frown2:. She was a great companion and really watched out for me, but she had a penchant for getting into neighbors' yards and killing their chickens.


Karma at it's best.


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## Taxman

I agree with Gus, get a GSD. Had a few of them in my time, best dog in the world. We had a small female when we had my daughter. My wife felt a certain amount of trepidation, however when we brought the baby home, Tabitha (My GSD), smelled her head, then promptly plopped down beside her and refused to let any strangers near the child. They were inseparable until Tab passed away. My daughter has absolutely no fear of dogs, when Tabitha passed, we got a massive Siberian Husky. The dog slept in my daughter's bed (we had to go out and get her a queen size). Now that she is out in her own place with the SO, they are contemplating a Malamute.


----------



## MyRevelation

bandit.45 said:


> I recommend French Brittany. Great, close-in grouse and quail dog. They are calm and have awesome personalities and they aren't hyperactive like Pointers. They stay close to you, you don't have to worry about chasing them all over hell's creation.


Sorry for the T/J, but the "dog snob" (my W's description) in me wants to respond to the above. French Brittany's and many other so-called versatile / continental breeds may make great pets and companions, but there is a reason that you see so few of them being ran by serious hunters, they simply don't have the ability to keep up with the long tailed breeds. As for the terms "close in", "stay close", "chasing them all over hell's creation" ... those are code words for people that don't know how to train or handle a truly good bird dog. FWIW, my breed of choice is the English Setter and I've been around them since the 60's, when I would follow my Dad's setters, and my current kennel is largely out of a line that I've hunted and owned for the past 5 generations dating back to the early 90's. 

End of T/J and back to Clemson ... it really doesn't matter what breed to get if you're just looking for companionship and a pet, but I recommend getting a pup out of either the sporting, hound or herding groups that are out of working parents. They will have the traits the breed was originally bred for and they just seem to be more intelligent overall. Pick a breed that pleases you and find a good litter out of quality parents. YMMV, but my dogs were invaluable to me when I was where you are now. Good Luck!!!


----------



## sokillme

We rescued a Mini-pin 3 months ago. Though this is not me this has been my experience every time I come 

home.




No one has ever greeted me better.


----------



## bandit.45

MyRevelation said:


> Sorry for the T/J, but the "dog snob" (my W's description) in me wants to respond to the above. French Brittany's and many other so-called versatile / continental breeds may make great pets and companions, but there is a reason that you see so few of them being ran by serious hunters, they simply don't have the ability to keep up with the long tailed breeds. As for the terms "close in", "stay close", "chasing them all over hell's creation" ... those are code words for people that don't know how to train or handle a truly good bird dog. FWIW, my breed of choice is the English Setter and I've been around them since the 60's, when I would follow my Dad's setters, and my current kennel is largely out of a line that I've hunted and owned for the past 5 generations dating back to the early 90's.
> 
> End of T/J and back to Clemson ... it really doesn't matter what breed to get if you're just looking for companionship and a pet, but I recommend getting a pup out of either the sporting, hound or herding groups that are out of working parents. They will have the traits the breed was originally bred for and they just seem to be more intelligent overall. Pick a breed that pleases you and find a good litter out of quality parents. YMMV, but my dogs were invaluable to me when I was where you are now. Good Luck!!!


To each his own.


----------



## Evinrude58

MyRevelation said:


> Sorry for the T/J, but the "dog snob" (my W's description) in me wants to respond to the above. French Brittany's and many other so-called versatile / continental breeds may make great pets and companions, but there is a reason that you see so few of them being ran by serious hunters, they simply don't have the ability to keep up with the long tailed breeds. As for the terms "close in", "stay close", "chasing them all over hell's creation" ... those are code words for people that don't know how to train or handle a truly good bird dog. FWIW, my breed of choice is the English Setter and I've been around them since the 60's, when I would follow my Dad's setters, and my current kennel is largely out of a line that I've hunted and owned for the past 5 generations dating back to the early 90's.
> 
> End of T/J and back to Clemson ... it really doesn't matter what breed to get if you're just looking for companionship and a pet, but I recommend getting a pup out of either the sporting, hound or herding groups that are out of working parents. They will have the traits the breed was originally bred for and they just seem to be more intelligent overall. Pick a breed that pleases you and find a good litter out of quality parents. YMMV, but my dogs were invaluable to me when I was where you are now. Good Luck!!!


This man knows dogs.


----------



## *Deidre*

brooklynAnn said:


> I have to agree with bandit. You did nothing wrong in your marriage. Being busy and working more for a few months while in a new job is to be expected. This is something that your wife knew about and should have expected. What she did however, was wrong.
> 
> Marriage goes thru cycles, it's not a static thing that stays the same. How you deal with those changes says a lot about who you are as a thinking being. She made a choice to have an affair and to stay with him. You had no say in this matter.
> 
> Stop blaming yourself for her destructive actions.
> 
> If she was so lonely and unhappy, she would have most likely complained to her sisters about it and would have given you some hints that she is miserable. Since, she did neither of these things says to me that an opportunity presented itself and she took it.
> 
> Maybe, I am naive in my thinking but I always think that I don't want to stay married to someone who choose to be with someone else. I should always be your choice. The moment you choose someone else, I am done. Why fight for someone who does not want you.
> 
> Be glad that she will be out of life soon. Life will get better. You will become a better man for this. Good luck.


This x 1000


----------



## MyRevelation

Evinrude58 said:


> This man knows dogs.


Thank You ... I take a lot of pride in my dogs and get much satisfaction from them. Following English Setters after ruffed grouse has been a 50 year passion of mine ... from following my Dad carrying a BB gun before I was old enough for a real shotgun, to now teaching my grandson and being fortunate to somewhat repay my Dad with trips to places he was never able to go back in the day.

Can I forward a guess, based on your username that you're a fellow outdoorsman ... maybe a fisherman or waterfowler?


----------



## bandit.45

MyRevelation said:


> Thank You ... I take a lot of pride in my dogs and get much satisfaction from them. Following English Setters after ruffed grouse has been a 50 year passion of mine ... from following my Dad carrying a BB gun before I was old enough for a real shotgun, to now teaching my grandson and being fortunate to somewhat repay my Dad with trips to places he was never able to go back in the day.
> 
> Can I forward a guess, based on your username that you're a fellow outdoorsman ... maybe a fisherman or waterfowler?


I've hunted over setters and both German and English pointers and they have their strengths to be sure. But the French Brittany (a real French Brittany from France, not the American Brittany with it's dull nose) is a true gentleman's birddog. I have hunted pheasant and quail with them numerous times and they are pure pleasure to hang out with. They hold, point and flush as well as any pointer or setter if they are trained well.


----------



## jlg07

Clemson said:


> This is the kind of thing that makes me sad and thinking that I should and could have done more in the marriage and maybe could have prevented all this. .


You are not to blame at all for her cheating. Yes, you may take some blame on any marital issues but how would you know if she never spoke about it? Seriously SHE is 100% to blame for cheating.


----------



## CuddleBug

Clemson said:


> I found this board and thought I would start a thread to see if I can get thoughts from others. My Wife is probably too far gone.
> 
> Little background on marriage. My Wife and I had a great Marriage and wonderful life. We met when she was 23 and I was 32. Wife is an old soul who likes to sew and cook and comes from a great family where church and family are the focus. She was a late bloomer and really didn't become attractive until college. She is the youngest of 3 daughters. Wife was sweet, loving, loyal and very attractive - perfect wife material. Wife and I were married in 2010 after dating for 3 years. Wife dated one guy all through college before breaking up with him and then meeting me. From the beginning, she was obsessed with me and would not even go out with her friends unless I came too.
> 
> We spent all our time together and genuinely loved being with each other. Without a doubt, we were each other’s best friends. Wife was definitely co-dependent on me and I was with her to some extent. I am an attorney and Wife works in insurance and we have no kids so we traveled extensively and generally lived a fun life. My wife complained about very little and never voiced any problems in our marriage. Wife always seemed happy and we almost never fought.
> 
> In April 2016, I started a new law firm which began taking up a lot of my time. Wife also started a new job that required her to travel. We seemed to be acclimating fine to this different/stressful time in our lives. I was working particularly long hours in September and October.
> 
> In November 2016, I come home from work to find Wife crying on our couch. Wife says she met a male co-worker and they had an affair during 3 week-long business trips (which happened during the period of my birthday and our anniversary). Apparently they really connected and had great passion. Wife says she was lonely and didn't know she was unhappy until she met OM. OM is 35 years old and married with three small children and lives in another state 1000 miles away. I was devastated and never suspected A. Wife tells me she loves me and chooses me over the OM. Wife has deep feelings for OM. Wife sends a no contact text to OM the next day and shows it to me. Wife seemed genuinely remorseful. Wife's two sisters tell me they too had no idea she was in trouble despite talking to her almost everyday. Her entire family is saddened by Wife's actions.
> 
> Two weeks later we are boarding a plane for a previously scheduled trip. I look over and see Wife texting OM and I almost have a panic attack. OM has told his wife of the affair but can’t stop thinking of my wife. My wife says OM reached out to her the night before and said “thinking of you”. Wife apologizes and I take her phone and text OM to never contact my wife or I will tell their employer about what is going on. We then start couples counseling. Wife tells counselor she wants to make our Marriage work.
> 
> Another two weeks later though, my wife gives me the ILYBNILWY line. I’m stunned. When I challenge her that she barely knows OM she says she's known him "101 days" like a teenager. I'm really concerned I'm losing her. But over the remainder of December, things are actually pretty good as we work on us. On New Year's Eve, we are at a party and Wife says she is thinking of OM. I lose it and tell her I'm done with the marriage.
> 
> The next day, Wife is sobbing and tells me she can't live without me, she wishes A never happened and she will quit her job if it means she keeps me. In late January 2017, we go out of town and one night Wife breaks down crying and says she can't get over OM. My heart is broken.
> 
> Once back home, Wife tells me she wants to separate so she can have time to think. I tell Wife we can do in-home separation on one condition: that she not contact OM. Wife refuses and I make her leave our home. Two days later Wife contacts OM and finds out he has been kicked out of his house by his wife and lives with his brother now. OM is interested in continuing the A. On February 12, I meet WW and she tells me she is choosing OM over me. Wife says she missed me at first but when she found out OM wasn't with his wife, the separation was easier. I kick Wife out of our house and immediately filed for D. I won't be plan b option.
> 
> Since then, I have gone no contact (I also gave up pursuing several weeks earlier). Wife comes by every Sunday to get clothes for work week and to talk about finances/divorce and while she is home she asks how my week has been, etc like nothing is wrong. I can't believe this is the same wife who would eagerly wait for me to come home every day just 6-8 months ago.
> 
> Wife wants to move where OM lives even though she has never been to that state, knows no one but OM there, has never lived outside our city, might lose her job and would be leaving all friends and family.
> 
> Wife's entire family is against her decision and has helped me through this. They think my Wife is lost and didn't give our M a chance. I did not ask for their help but they desperately want our M to work. Personal friends have called asking if she has a brain tumor because this is not the person they know. This A has almost zero chance of working and there is literally no one encouraging Wife to leave other than OM. Yet here we are. Everyone I tell is stunned that Wife would have an A. It was so out of character for her. She is so distant and uncaring now. We have been together over 9 years and it's like it meant nothing. For someone so obsessed with me, I can't believe our lack of communication doesn't bother her at some level.
> 
> Looking back, I can't believe I have put up with all this over the past 3 months. I foresee my Wife returning in the future but I don't know if I would even want her back. Filing for divorce did not snap her out of it. I have lost 20 lbs and am in the best shape I've been in 15 years. Anything else I should be doing? Any words of encouragement? I'd be lying if I said I don't miss her everyday still.




She is only 23? She was too young to be engaged and to get married. Not mature enough or ready to really settle down. She didn't realize this and when meeting this other married man, had the affair, made excuses, texting is ongoing and no real remorse. Then this other man gets kicked out by his wife, good for her, now living with his brother and your ex is with him!?

Wow. I feel for you.

You have a good head on your shoulders, mature and solid. She was the opposite.

Some women are messed up.

She is woman trash.

Kick her 100% out of your house. No clothes, no washing them, absolutely gone!!! Change your locks already.

I don't know how she can do this and talk to you like life is great and everything is okay.

Karma will get her bad for this and what goes around always comes around. She will get hers and when it happen, she will cry and run back to you, because you're a nice guy, stable, etc.


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## ricky15100

No kids, dodged a bullet!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss

CuddleBug said:


> She is only 23?


No, it was poorly worded and led to a slight derail. She is 32, they met when she was 23.


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## Clemson

CuddleBug said:


> She is only 23? She was too young to be engaged and to get married. Not mature enough or ready to really settle down. She didn't realize this and when meeting this other married man, had the affair, made excuses, texting is ongoing and no real remorse. Then this other man gets kicked out by his wife, good for her, now living with his brother and your ex is with him!?
> 
> Wow. I feel for you.
> 
> You have a good head on your shoulders, mature and solid. She was the opposite.
> 
> Some women are messed up.
> 
> She is woman trash.
> 
> Kick her 100% out of your house. No clothes, no washing them, absolutely gone!!! Change your locks already.
> 
> I don't know how she can do this and talk to you like life is great and everything is okay.
> 
> Karma will get her bad for this and what goes around always comes around. She will get hers and when it happen, she will cry and run back to you, because you're a nice guy, stable, etc.


She was 23 when we we first started dating. She is now 32. Sorry for the confusion. No problems in our marriage other than things were getting a little stale the last couple months while we worked and got my business going but we still enjoyed being with each other all the time we had. If that was the death knell of a marriage than most would not survive IMO. She has been out of the house for over a month. She is moving all her stuff out next Saturday and it is all boxed up. Divorce will be final in May. She is renting an apartment in our city for 6 months until she decides what she wants to do. She is considering moving to the other state where OM lives with his brother and sister-in-law apparently. My wife has basically withdrawn from everyone except her family because no one understands or approves of her decision. Her family doesn't approve of it but they obviously love her. Someone has obviously gotten to her to slow things down because she was gung-ho initially about moving to be with OM immediately. I've run into several of her personal friends and they can't believe how quickly she gave up on our marriage and how out of character all this is for her. I think she equates a healthy marriage with the same feelings she gets from being "in love". She has just now started telling some co-workers we are getting divorced. I'm sure there is spin on her version. She can't tell them she had an affair with a co-worker in another office they know.


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## Tatsuhiko

My guess is that she'll be back, maybe in a few weeks or months, and you'll have a big decision to make about whether you still want her or not.


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## Evinrude58

I would relish knowing I moved on with a far better woman and seeing her life spiral downward like everyone knows it's going to.

I would never go back to this disloyal person who will likely one day claim to be your friend.


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## CuddleBug

Clemson said:


> She was 23 when we we first started dating. She is now 32. Sorry for the confusion. No problems in our marriage other than things were getting a little stale the last couple months while we worked and got my business going but we still enjoyed being with each other all the time we had. If that was the death knell of a marriage than most would not survive IMO. She has been out of the house for over a month. She is moving all her stuff out next Saturday and it is all boxed up. Divorce will be final in May. She is renting an apartment in our city for 6 months until she decides what she wants to do. She is considering moving to the other state where OM lives with his brother and sister-in-law apparently. My wife has basically withdrawn from everyone except her family because no one understands or approves of her decision. Her family doesn't approve of it but they obviously love her. Someone has obviously gotten to her to slow things down because she was gung-ho initially about moving to be with OM immediately. I've run into several of her personal friends and they can't believe how quickly she gave up on our marriage and how out of character all this is for her. I think she equates a healthy marriage with the same feelings she gets from being "in love". She has just now started telling some co-workers we are getting divorced. I'm sure there is spin on her version. She can't tell them she had an affair with a co-worker in another office they know.



I hope, I know everything will work out for you and that you'll find a good mature woman with a solid head on her shoulders.

Karma will get her in the end....goes around comes around.


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## Marc878

Clemson said:


> She was 23 when we we first started dating. She is now 32. Sorry for the confusion. No problems in our marriage other than things were getting a little stale the last couple months while we worked and got my business going but we still enjoyed being with each other all the time we had. If that was the death knell of a marriage than most would not survive IMO. She has been out of the house for over a month. She is moving all her stuff out next Saturday and it is all boxed up. Divorce will be final in May. She is renting an apartment in our city for 6 months until she decides what she wants to do. She is considering moving to the other state where OM lives with his brother and sister-in-law apparently. My wife has basically withdrawn from everyone except her family because no one understands or approves of her decision. Her family doesn't approve of it but they obviously love her. Someone has obviously gotten to her to slow things down because she was gung-ho initially about moving to be with OM immediately. I've run into several of her personal friends and they can't believe how quickly she gave up on our marriage and how out of character all this is for her. I think she equates a healthy marriage with the same feelings she gets from being "in love". *She has just now started telling some co-workers we are getting divorced. I'm sure there is spin on her version. She can't tell them she had an affair with a co-worker in another office they know.*


The truth always comes out. When it does that's when the reality hits. However, if you're smart you'll be fully detached by then and it won't matter much.

It's best you eliminate everything that reminds you of her. Pics, mementos, etc. as you've found any involvement no matter how small just drags you back down.

You have no future there.


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## Evinrude58

Once I took down and stopped looking at any pictures of my ex wife--- I started getting better.
Let her memory die, Clemson. 
I second the advice on removing anything that reminds you of her from your life, within reason.


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## bandit.45

Tatsuhiko said:


> My guess is that she'll be back, maybe in a few weeks or months, and you'll have a big decision to make about whether you still want her or not.


No. 

No she won't. There is a finality to the way this one is acting that indicates she is completely checked out. Best not to get Clemson's hopes up.


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## arbitrator

Tatsuhiko said:


> *My guess is that she'll be back,* maybe in a few weeks or months, and you'll have a big decision to make about whether you still want her or not.


* I'd greatly have to say that isn't exactly what her actions are telling us!*


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## Vinnydee

So to summarize, the other guy wins and you lose, or win depending on how you look at it. It happens. My sister divorced her husband of 25 years. He is a singer in a group that had a hit record and he performs on TV and all around the country. He also had a business going on the side. He was loved by my entire family. The type of guy who was famous and you would never know it by meeting him. He would literally give you the shirt off of his back. He did a lot of things for my parents since I rarely lived close to them. My sister left him for a married city bus driver who is somewhat of an alcoholic. The last time I talked to him on the phone he was going off on some rant that I think I am better than him just because my sister called me for help on her computer against his wishes. 

We were all mad at my sister. I did not talk to her for a year. Then karma struck and my sister's new boyfriend had a stroke and could not work anymore. My sister has to care for him for the rest of their life. Did not work out as she planned, but she chose the wrong man. Her ex adored her and never asked her to work. Now she is working and providing care for the replacement guy. You can never tell what the future will be. 

I was devastated when my ex fiance left me while I was serving a year's tour of duty in Vietnam. She went on to get hooked on drugs, pregnant by one of several guys she had sex with, developed mental problems as a result of drugs, married a guy to support her and her kid and when her kid graduated from college, she left her husband to marry the woman she had been cheating on him with. Guys never seem to suspect anything when the other guy is a girl. Like with me, this may end up becoming the best thing in your life. 

When it happens you are stuck in the present and have to deal with the problems and emotions. In the future I saw that breakup as being the best thing to ever happen to me. If not for that I would have never met my wife of 44 years who put up with 13 relocations and taking care of the home front when I was away for 3-4 months of the year on business. I never worried once about her cheating, and her willingness to put up with my ambitions allowed us to live a very comfortable lifestyle. None of that would have happened if my ex fiancee did not cheat. BTW, I found that the best way to get over a former lover is to get under another. A month with a girl who liked sex as much as me was all it took to get over my ex who was with me for 5 years. Your future will be made up of the good and bad things that happen to you and if you have a good future, it will be partly due to what happened to you now.


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## TDSC60

bandit.45 said:


> No.
> 
> No she won't. There is a finality to the way this one is acting that indicates she is completely checked out. Best not to get Clemson's hopes up.


I don't think my fellow alumni is harboring any false hope that she will return or that he would accept her back after the way she has treated him. He is not a Plan B for any airhead female.


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## Clemson

Evinrude58 said:


> Once I took down and stopped looking at any pictures of my ex wife--- I started getting better.
> Let her memory die, Clemson.
> I second the advice on removing anything that reminds you of her from your life, within reason.


This is absolutely true. I took down all photos and reminders of her the first week she was gone. Amazing how helpful it was. The healing really does get better everyday. I am getting more and more comfortable being alone and don't miss our life as much as I did even last week. I bought a bunch of new clothes and am working on getting in the best shape I've been since college. Also, I think it is fortuitous that spring and summer are coming since the longer days and outdoor activities will keep me busy and moving forward.


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## Clemson

TDSC60 said:


> I don't think my fellow alumni is harboring any false hope that she will return or that he would accept her back after the way she has treated him. He is not a Plan B for any airhead female.


Correct fellow tiger. I don't want her back. We can't unring this bell. I would like her to grovel so I can say [email protected]"& off. Other that, stay out of my life.


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## Evinrude58

Vinnydee said:


> So to summarize, the other guy wins and you lose, or win depending on how you look at it. It happens. My sister divorced her husband of 25 years. He is a singer in a group that had a hit record and he performs on TV and all around the country. He also had a business going on the side. He was loved by my entire family. The type of guy who was famous but you would never know it by meeting him. He would literally give you the shirt off of his back. He did a lot of things for my parents since I rarely lived close to them. My sister left him for a married city bus driver who is somewhat of an alcoholic. The last time I talked to him on the phone he was going off on some rant that I think I am better than him just because my sister called me for help on her computer despite his wishes. He had a complex about being the least successful in his family and mine.
> 
> We were all mad at my sister. I did not talk to her for a year. Then karma struck and my sisters new boyfriend had a stroke and could not work anymore. My sister has to care for him for the rest of their life. Did not work out as she planned but she chose the wrong man. her ex adored her and never asked her to work. Now she is working and providing care for the replacement guy. You can never tell what the future will be. I was devastated when my ex fiance left me while I was serving a year's tour of duty in Vietnam. She went on to get hooked on drugs, pregnant by one of several guys she had sex with, developed mental problems as a result of drugs, married a guy to support her and her kid and when her kid graduated from college, she left her husband to marry the woman she had been cheating on him with. Guys never seem to suspect anything when the other guy is a girl. Like with me, this may end up becoming the best thing in your life.
> 
> When it happens you are stuck in the present and have to deal with the problems and emotions. In the future I saw that breakup as being the best thing to ever happen to me. If not for that I would have never met my wife of 44 years who put up with 13 relocations and taking care of the home front when I was away for 3-4 months of the year on business. I never worried once about her cheating and her willingness to put up with my ambitions allowed us to live a very comfortable lifestyle. None of that would have happened if my ex fiancee did not cheat. BTW, I found that the best way to get over a former lover is to get under another. A month with a girl who liked sex as much as me was all it took to get over my ex who was with me for 5 years. Your future will be made up of the good and bad things that happen to you and if you have a good future, it will be partly due to what happened to you now.


I have to agree with vinnydee...,,
Never know what the future holds, but know it would have been bad with this woman you are @Losing".


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## DepressedHusband

EunuchMonk said:


> @Clemson, did you notice that the same way she obsessed over you in the beginning, is the same way she is obsessing with this other man? I see a pattern. Your wife has a super co-dependent personality.
> 
> The time you two spent working on your career might have played a role in the affair. But that isn't your fault. This is life; sometimes people get busy with life. Not an excuse for her to cheat. She took the easiest way and did not fight for the marriage. She did not express that she was unhappy. She says she didn't know she was unhappy? So she is immature and not self-aware.
> 
> She looks like she has moved on. You are going to have to do the same. Don't drink alcohol. Get plenty of sleep. Maybe start exercising. Go 180 on her. Since you two have no children that makes it easier to focus on being a better you.
> 
> Godspeed, OP.


Yes, the wife is a submissive, and if you don't have a hyper dominant personality you will never have a long term relationship with a submissive


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## ZedZ

Clemson said:


> Correct fellow tiger. I don't want her back. We can't unring this bell. I would like her to grovel so I can say [email protected]"& off. Other that, stay out of my life.


You are 100% correct...good luck...


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## jlg07

Clemson said:


> I've run into several of her personal friends and they can't believe how quickly she gave up on our marriage and how out of character all this is for her. I think she equates a healthy marriage with the same feelings she gets from being "in love". She has just now started telling some co-workers we are getting divorced. I'm sure there is spin on her version. She can't tell them she had an affair with a co-worker in another office they know.


You should quickly correct your friends on why you are getting a divorce, and if you know folks at work, I think you should correct her spin -- do NOT let her re-write your history.


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## Clemson

jlg07 said:


> You should quickly correct your friends on why you are getting a divorce, and if you know folks at work, I think you should correct her spin -- do NOT let her re-write your history.


Her friends know the real story since my wife told them. It has scared all the husbands apparently because so surprising. In fact, she told her friends there was an affair and they thought it was me. They were shocked it was her. As for her coworkers, part of our divorce settlement agreement is that I don't tell her coworkers because she and OM could be fired. I don't care at his point.


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## badmemory

Clemson said:


> As for her coworkers, part of *our divorce settlement agreement is that I don't tell her coworkers *because she and OM could be fired. I don't care at his point.


Not so fast my friend. 

I would keep that part of the agreement in my back pocket for now - for a bargaining chip. If all other aspects of the divorce agreement play out to your satisfaction, *then* you could agree.


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## Clemson

badmemory said:


> Not so fast my friend.
> 
> I would keep that part of the agreement in my back pocket for now - for a bargaining chip. If all other aspects of the divorce agreement play out to your satisfaction, *then* you could agree.


Correct. It is why the terms of my divorce are so beneficial to me. It is a big bargaining chip.


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## weightlifter

Clemson said:


> Correct. It is why the terms of my divorce are so beneficial to me. It is a big bargaining chip.


#yodavoice
The wisdom is strong in this one.
Help others behind you. You must.


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## TDSC60

Clemson said:


> Correct. It is why the terms of my divorce are so beneficial to me. It is a big bargaining chip.


After the divorce is final, you can always tell a really good friend or spouse of one of her coworkers the details and workplace gossip will take care of the rest. That way you are off the hook.


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## TheTruthHurts

TDSC60 said:


> After the divorce is final, you can always tell a really good friend or spouse of one of her coworkers the details and workplace gossip will take care of the rest. That way you are off the hook.




Or walk away and live your life 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Clemson

TDSC60 said:


> After the divorce is final, you can always tell a really good friend or spouse of one of her coworkers the details and workplace gossip will take care of the rest. That way you are off the hook.


I've thought about it but the upside is so low compared to the downside. It will come out any way since it will be obvious if they start dating immediately. I just want to move on and let her have the OM with his 3 little kids who will hate her, OM's lack of income because all his money will go to alimony and child support and life in a town she has never even visited before.


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## browser

Clemson said:


> I've thought about it but the upside is so low compared to the downside. It will come out any way since it will be obvious if they start dating immediately. I just want to move on and let her have the OM with his 3 little kids who will hate her, OM's lack of income because all his money will go to alimony and child support and life in a town she has never even visited before.


Well said. So many on here say "Expose and tell everyone so they know the truth and you won't be portrayed as the bad guy".

As if it really matters what people think. As if it's necessary to run around like a desperate, vindictive, angry, spiteful, obsessed desperate individual who feels the need to talk trash about their ex-partner or spouse who has hurt them. 

People are always going to gossip, and form their own opinions based on whatever random "facts" they choose to believe. The people that matter- already know the truth.


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## Clemson

browser said:


> Well said. So many on here say "Expose and tell everyone so they know the truth and you won't be portrayed as the bad guy".
> 
> As if it really matters what people think. As if it's necessary to run around like a desperate, vindictive, angry, spiteful, obsessed desperate individual who feels the need to talk trash about their ex-partner or spouse who has hurt them.
> 
> People are always going to gossip, and form their own opinions based on whatever random "facts" they choose to believe. The people that matter- already know the truth.


I agree with you. I tell everyone who asks me about my wife that she had an affair and left me for the other guy. I'm not ashamed since I did nothing wrong. Obviously, there are some things I could have done better but they are no different than any other relationship of 9 years I think. My wife is the weak person here with no integrity and no understanding what love is. At this point, I am trying to end the marriage as quickly as possible with as much of my financial assets as possible. I don't care what people who don't know me and I have never met think about our marriage. I know the truth and everyone who knows us, knows the truth. My wife even told her friends the truth. At this point, she has alienated everyone she knows and her life is basically OM and her family who is disappointed in her. My wife's mom even said she loves me more than my wife because this was so deceitful and sinful. OM will never be accepted by my wife's family. My wife has a sad life right now outside of OM. And knowing my wife, she won't be able to stay away from this guy so the affair will become obvious at work without my intervention.


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## honcho

Clemson said:


> I agree with you. I tell everyone who asks me about my wife that she had an affair and left me for the other guy. I'm not ashamed since I did nothing wrong. Obviously, there are some things I could have done better but they are no different than any other relationship of 9 years I think. My wife is the weak person here with no integrity and no understanding what love is. At this point, I am trying to end the marriage as quickly as possible with as much of my financial assets as possible. I don't care what people who don't know me and I have never met think about our marriage. I know the truth and everyone who knows us, knows the truth. My wife even told her friends the truth. At this point, she has alienated everyone she knows and her life is basically OM and her family who is disappointed in her. My wife's mom even said she loves me more than my wife because this was so deceitful and sinful. OM will never be accepted by my wife's family. My wife has a sad life right now outside of OM. And knowing my wife, she won't be able to stay away from this guy so the affair will become obvious at work without my intervention.


Odds are her coworkers know or suspect anyway. Workplace affairs are near impossible to keep hidden from coworkers and water cooler gossip. 

She has and will alienate friends and family because she has the "perfect world illusion" in her head right now which is just as powerful as any drug. Leave her there and get the divorce done cause when Mr perfect dumps her the whole deal is gonna change. A few lucky ones get it final before the illusion blows up.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Beware and on guard as when reality hits she will likely come running back to you.


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## Clemson

honcho said:


> Odds are her coworkers know or suspect anyway. Workplace affairs are near impossible to keep hidden from coworkers and water cooler gossip.
> 
> She has and will alienate friends and family because she has the "perfect world illusion" in her head right now which is just as powerful as any drug. Leave her there and get the divorce done cause when Mr perfect dumps her the whole deal is gonna change. A few lucky ones get it final before the illusion blows up.


You said the same thing I am thinking. I am hoping this relationship with OM drags on through early May. By then, the divorce becomes final. My greatest concern right now is their relationship blows up before the divorce becomes final and then I have a disgruntled wife during the divorce proceedings. I have been playing the nice guy until this thing gets done.


----------



## browser

Clemson said:


> You said the same thing I am thinking. I am hoping this relationship with OM drags on through early May. By then, the divorce becomes final. My greatest concern right now is their relationship blows up before the divorce becomes final and then I have a disgruntled wife during the divorce proceedings. I have been playing the nice guy until this thing gets done.


Yes, you want to keep things civil and moving along as quickly as possible while she's agreeable otherwise things will get nasty and expensive and slooooow. 

Your logical and reasonable concerns, based on what you are going through right now, flies in the face of those posters who say "expose the affair, it doesn't matter if she gets mad at you it won't have any effect on the divorce" which is to say the least, shortsighted and just plain bad advice.


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## *Deidre*

I think you only expose the affair if you want to reconcile, because all it will end up looking like is revenge, if you're on the divorce path. Let her go, and move on with your life.

I would also not chat anymore with her parents. They're still her parents, and if you share too much, it might come back to hurt you. I would sever all ties with her family. Frankly, they're probably part of the reason she is the way she is.


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## Clemson

*Deidre* said:


> I think you only expose the affair if you want to reconcile, because all it will end up looking like is revenge, if you're on the divorce path. Let her go, and move on with your life.
> 
> I would also not chat anymore with her parents. They're still her parents, and if you share too much, it might come back to hurt you. I would sever all ties with her family. Frankly, they're probably part of the reason she is the way she is.


They are definitely a player in how she is. I have not spoken with her parents in several weeks. The comment above was shortly after my wife told her parents she was choosing OM. Good advice.


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## *Deidre*

Clemson said:


> They are definitely a player in how she is. I have not spoken with her parents in several weeks. The comment above was shortly after my wife told her parents she was choosing OM. Good advice.


Yea, most parents share some responsibility in how their kids turn out. Not that as adults, we don't have the power to make our own choices, but I have a feeling that she didn't learn responsibility and when things get hard, she learned somewhere along the way, that it's okay to abandon whatever it is that isn't going her way. If you look back through your marriage, you will probably pin point some red flags but you ignored them, thinking that things will get better. No one wakes up out of the blue and cheats. The character flaws and behaviors are already there, and those things pave the way for the affair to happen. Many people don't cheat, not because they don't have opportunity to, not because they're not hot enough to be desired by the opposite sex, but because they have class and take their vows seriously. I'm sure women have flirted with you during the course of your marriage. You didn't cheat. Your wife cheated because she lacks something, and what's really REALLY sad, is this OM is going to dump her so hard, she is going to be reeling from the pain. Wait for it. (but from afar lol)

I'd go no contact as much as you can, because she will come back when her relationship to the OM ends. And it will end. He most likely will cheat on her. Cos that's what cheaters do. 
Stay strong.


----------



## Marc878

*Deidre* said:


> I think you only expose the affair if you want to reconcile, because all it will end up looking like is revenge, if you're on the divorce path. Let her go, and move on with your life.
> 
> I would also not chat anymore with her parents. They're still her parents, and if you share too much, it might come back to hurt you. I would sever all ties with her family. Frankly, they're probably part of the reason she is the way she is.


For the most part blood is always thicker than water. Long term she will be brought back into the fold. If OM stays around he'll probably be accepted even if grudgingly.


----------



## TDSC60

Clemson said:


> I've thought about it but the upside is so low compared to the downside. It will come out any way since it will be obvious if they start dating immediately. I just want to move on and let her have the OM with his 3 little kids who will hate her, OM's lack of income because all his money will go to alimony and child support and life in a town she has never even visited before.


You do see the silver lining in this. You just left out that you will be a single professional who will be in high demand to the female population.

Take your time and have some fun.

The best revenge is living a good life for yourself and indifference to her and her situation.


----------



## *Deidre*

Marc878 said:


> For the most part blood is always thicker than water. Long term she will be brought back into the fold. If OM stays around he'll probably be accepted even if grudgingly.


Yep. And the fruit doesn't fall from the tree, in this case. Let them have their fruit back


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## lostmyreligion

Marc878 said:


> For the most part blood is always thicker than water. Long term she will be brought back into the fold. If OM stays around he'll probably be accepted even if grudgingly.


This. My sister had a LTA with a good mutual friend of theirs. When it came to light and the SHTF she chose her AP. We were pissed and disappointed as hell. They stayed together for twenty or so years and we came to grudgingly accept him. He seemed a better match.

Of course he cheated on her, but I have to give her some credit. Even though she hurt like hell, her comment was "Karma's a b!tch". 

And she wouldn't take him back.


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## sidney2718

*Deidre* said:


> I think you only expose the affair if you want to reconcile, because all it will end up looking like is revenge, if you're on the divorce path. Let her go, and move on with your life.


I'd only expose if I got some benefit out of it. If there was a reconciliation, it will be more difficult if the whole town knows what she did.



> I would also not chat anymore with her parents. They're still her parents, and if you share too much, it might come back to hurt you. I would sever all ties with her family. Frankly, they're probably part of the reason she is the way she is.


This I agree with. It puts the parents in a very difficult position and does little for you except bring back old memories.


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## sokillme

lostmyreligion said:


> This. My sister had a LTA with a good mutual friend of theirs. When it came to light and the SHTF she chose her AP. We were pissed and disappointed as hell. They stayed together for twenty or so years and we came to grudgingly accept him. He seemed a better match.
> 
> Of course he cheated on her, but I have to give her some credit. Even though she hurt like hell, her comment was "Karma's a b!tch".
> 
> And she wouldn't take him back.


I love stories with a happy ending. >


----------



## Clemson

TDSC60 said:


> You do see the silver lining in this. You just left out that you will be a single professional who will be in high demand to the female population.
> 
> Take your time and have some fun.
> 
> The best revenge is living a good life for yourself and indifference to her and her situation.


Great words of encouragement. Thank you. I sometimes find myself wanting to rush out and find some new woman but I want to get comfortable being alone and just have fun for a while and meet new women.


----------



## *Deidre*

sidney2718 said:


> I'd only expose if I got some benefit out of it. If there was a reconciliation, it will be more difficult if the whole town knows what she did.
> 
> 
> 
> This I agree with. It puts the parents in a very difficult position and does little for you except bring back old memories.


One of my reasons for not thinking people should expose, is I wouldn't want the whole town feeling sorry for me. I wouldn't want everyone contacting me to ''see if I'm okay.'' I wouldn't want pity, I wouldn't want people to look at my cheating spouse as an evil person. I don't think some people think it all through and it's a knee jerk reaction to being cheated on, for some people. And then you take this person back who you have demonized to your friends and family, and now they really feel sorry for you. It just wouldn't be something I'd be comfortable doing, tbh.


----------



## ABHale

*Deidre* said:


> One of my reasons for not thinking people should expose, is I wouldn't want the whole town feeling sorry for me. I wouldn't want everyone contacting me to ''see if I'm okay.'' I wouldn't want pity, I wouldn't want people to look at my cheating spouse as an evil person. I don't think some people think it all through and it's a knee jerk reaction to being cheated on, for some people. And then you take this person back who you have demonized to your friends and family, and now they really feel sorry for you. It just wouldn't be something I'd be comfortable doing, tbh.


And this is actually what would happen if this happened with you. Look at the start of the threads here on TAM. 

With guys it is different. Normally they do keep quiet out of shame and pride. Then the WW goes out and tries to rewrite history so she is not to blame. Then the BH catches hell for being an ass to her when he wasn't. So he ends up losing his wife and friends.


----------



## TaDor

Exposure is not about wanting people to "feel sorry" for you. As a BH, it was to not let the WS re-write history, say we "broke up" - rather than she cheated.

So that when the cheaters is showing off their NEW boyfriend or girlfriend... is *IT* the affair partner? The homewrecker? Will the parents of the WS be supporting of the cheating?


----------



## *Deidre*

ABHale said:


> And this is actually what would happen if this happened with you. Look at the start of the threads here on TAM.
> 
> With guys it is different. Normally they do keep quiet out of shame and pride. Then the WW goes out and tries to rewrite history so she is not to blame. Then the BH catches hell for being an ass to her when he wasn't. So he ends up losing his wife and friends.


At the end of the day though, what others think when you're going through something like that, should matter least. I think people get really overly concerned with how this or that will look if they stay...if they leave, etc. I mean, if you're asked by your friends and family ''what happened'' then share, but to broadcast...''hey everyone, my spouse cheated on me, that's why we're breaking up...'' and then proceed to call everyone up, including their employer, etc...is just keeping you locked into the WS' drama, if you ask me. 

Everyone is different, but I just see broadcasting stuff like this as backfiring.


----------



## ABHale

*Deidre* said:


> At the end of the day though, what others think when you're going through something like that, should matter least. I think people get really overly concerned with how this or that will look if they stay...if they leave, etc. I mean, if you're asked by your friends and family ''what happened'' then share, but to broadcast...''hey everyone, my spouse cheated on me, that's why we're breaking up...'' and then proceed to call everyone up, including their employer, etc...is just keeping you locked into the WS' drama, if you ask me.
> 
> Everyone is different, but I just see broadcasting stuff like this as backfiring.


O, not like that. Parents/siblings and close friends is all. People that are in your everyday life and will see. Also no details unless needed. The people that it will effect as well as two involved. Then drop it. 

Then pull the plug on social media with the WS. Break all contact so you don't see what's being posted by them. 

One shot and done. No drama.


----------



## browser

TaDor said:


> Exposure is not about wanting people to "feel sorry" for you. As a BH, it was to not let the WS re-write history, say we "broke up" - rather than she cheated.
> 
> So that when the cheaters is showing off their NEW boyfriend or girlfriend... is *IT* the affair partner? The homewrecker? Will the parents of the WS be supporting of the cheating?


So WHAT if the cheater "rewrites history"?

Who cares what the ex partner/cheater does, who they're doing it with and what their parents think about it?

I sure wouldn't. 

To expose, simply to "set the record straight" so that "everyone knows the truth" is lame and desperate and what it really says is "I'm hurt and I can't get over them".


----------



## sokillme

browser said:


> So WHAT if the cheater "rewrites history"?
> 
> Who cares what the ex partner/cheater does, who they're doing it with and what their parents think about it?
> 
> I sure wouldn't.
> 
> To expose, simply to "set the record straight" so that "everyone knows the truth" is lame and desperate and what it really says is "I'm hurt and I can't get over them".


I would never cover for anyone who did me wrong. I also tend to live my life pretty openly so most people would know, and I wouldn't care if people thought I was having trouble getting over it or not, eventually they would SEE me get over it so who cares what they think. I never had any shame about being cheated on. I tend to judge people by how much honor they have, I was never the dishonorable one, so why would I feel bad about that. Her loss. I damn sure ain't going to let someone lie about me though.


----------



## browser

sokillme said:


> I would never cover for anyone who did me wrong.


"Covering for someone" is not the same thing as "running around all over town making sure everyone knows you were cheated on".

If anyone who matters to you, asks.. then you tell them. Simple as that. Everyone else can draw their own conclusions, why do you care what they think.


----------



## Clemson

sokillme said:


> I would never cover for anyone who did me wrong. I also tend to live my life pretty openly so most people would know, and I wouldn't care if people thought I was having trouble getting over it or not, eventually they would SEE me get over it so who cares what they think. I never had any shame about being cheated on. I tend to judge people by how much honor they have, I was never the dishonorable one, so why would I feel bad about that. Her loss. I damn sure ain't going to let someone lie about me though.


I draw a distinction between covering for the cheater and working on reconciliation. For example, I knew when I told my mom about the affair, she would never want anything to do with my wife. So my options were tell her and if we worked it out then never see my mom again with my wife or wait and see how things unfolded and if we reconciled then people like my mom would not know it ever happened and treat us normally. You can't unring the bell. I agree if the decision is to divorce then the gloves are off. Anyone who asks me about her now gets the full truth about what happened and I am not ahamed at all. I did nothing wrong.


----------



## browser

Clemson said:


> I draw a distinction between covering for the cheater and working on reconciliation. For example, I knew when I told my mom about the affair, she would never want anything to do with my wife. So my options were tell her and if we worked it out then never see my mom again with my wife or wait and see how things unfolded and if we reconciled then people like my mom would not know it ever happened and treat us normally.


Interesting predicament. Your mom is a wise woman. If I was ever in such a situation I'd like to think I would give her the benefit of the truth and let her do what she wanted with it even if it meant total loss of respect for a woman who deserves no respect.

That has nothing to do with running around and exposing the cheater to anyone who will lend an ear. That's having a candid discussion with one of the people who matter.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I draw a distinction between covering for the cheater and working on reconciliation. For example, I knew when I told my mom about the affair, she would never want anything to do with my wife. So my options were tell her and if we worked it out then never see my mom again with my wife or wait and see how things unfolded and if we reconciled then people like my mom would not know it ever happened and treat us normally. You can't unring the bell. I agree if the decision is to divorce then the gloves are off. Anyone who asks me about her now gets the full truth about what happened and I am not ahamed at all. I did nothing wrong.


I get this, for me though I would never take a cheater back so it wouldn't matter.


----------



## sokillme

browser said:


> If anyone who matters to you, asks.. then you tell them. Simple as that. Everyone else can draw their own conclusions, why do you care what they think.


Nah I would be like, "yeah we are getting divorced turns out she was a cheating *******." I am not one to hide who I am or my opinions. (I bet you couldn't tell /s) Now I wouldn't write posts on Facebook or anything but then again I am not on Facebook so there is that.


----------



## *Deidre*

Typically, people like drama. You tell people that your wife cheated and the reaction will be ''oh my gosh, that's awful, you didn't deserve that...'' etc etc. That's okay in the beginning, but a year later, people will still want to talk about it with you, because that's human nature, and many people love drama. This is why I'd say ''she cheated,'' and I wouldn't get into details, because the story will actually come back to haunt you, not your stbx, when you're trying to heal.  I had this happen after a break up with a guy, a friend of mind kept wanting to talk about what a jerk he is 6 months later, and it was hard to keep hearing about him, as I was trying to heal.


----------



## Jessica38

*Deidre* said:


> One of my reasons for not thinking people should expose, is I wouldn't want the whole town feeling sorry for me. I wouldn't want everyone contacting me to ''see if I'm okay.'' I wouldn't want pity, I wouldn't want people to look at my cheating spouse as an evil person. I don't think some people think it all through and it's a knee jerk reaction to being cheated on, for some people. And then you take this person back who you have demonized to your friends and family, and now they really feel sorry for you. It just wouldn't be something I'd be comfortable doing, tbh.


Another good reason I've heard is that if you don't expose to close family and friends, the cheater is likely to rewrite history to them (and to themselves to justify their cheating). Suddenly, the reason the marriage ended was because the betrayed spouse was a workaholic, or too critical, or controlling. I think it's important to call a spade a spade- maybe there were issues in the marriage, but the bottom line is it ended when they decided to have an affair. And cheaters betray more people than one- their in-laws who believed in their commitment, their children who should be able to take for granted their parents' commitment, and anyone else who supported the marriage.


----------



## sokillme

*Deidre* said:


> Typically, people like drama. You tell people that your wife cheated and the reaction will be ''oh my gosh, that's awful, you didn't deserve that...'' etc etc. That's okay in the beginning, but a year later, people will still want to talk about it with you, because that's human nature, and many people love drama. This is why I'd say ''she cheated,'' and I wouldn't get into details, because the story will actually come back to haunt you, not your stbx, when you're trying to heal.  I had this happen after a break up with a guy, a friend of mind kept wanting to talk about what a jerk he is 6 months later, and it was hard to keep hearing about him, as I was trying to heal.


Who cares if people want to talk about it. I got no problem talking about it. I didn't do anything wrong in this hypothetical situation. If I didn't want to talk about it, I would say I have moved on lets talk about something else.


----------



## TaDor

If you are divorced... people are STILL GOING TO ASK?! "WHY?"

So either you are going to lie or say nothing... or tell the truth. No need to do favors for cheaters. I have no shame or embarrassment from exposure. There is NOTHING cool about it. But in the big scheme of things - exposure is the least of your problems. Oh, and nobody bothers us about it and its been almost a year and I don't give a damn. I got bills and diapers to worry about.

Yeah, my wife and her family were pissed off about the exposure. But she was lying about what was going on. She was lying behind my back and lying to others... Lies about what I did or did NOT do... really horrible crap. Soon after she was kicked out, her lies were cracking. Also, there was a crazy friend who was feeding my wife lies - which really helped to justify her actions. I showed my wife the TRUE conversations between me and her crazy friend. She had to think about her words and actions in that they didn't match reality. Her wanting to do (R) and going to therapy and wanting me to come back to family events and talking to her parents - showed them that SHE was the one who was doing the damage. I have a better relationship with her parents today, than ever before.

I hope R continues to go well.


----------



## *Deidre*

sokillme said:


> Who cares if people want to talk about it. I got no problem talking about it. I didn't do anything wrong in this hypothetical situation. If I didn't want to talk about it, I would say I have moved on lets talk about something else.


But what does it matter what others think happened? I get people ask, but honestly? If I knew someone was going through a divorce I wouldn't be like ''Sorry to hear, what happened?'' I mean, it's really not my business, unless the person wants to open up about it freely. But people are so dang nosy and must know. Not because they care, but because they like gossip. Your close family and a few close friends might care, but the rest? They just want to talk gossip, and I'm just not into sitting around giving them something to talk about. 

I had a bad break up with a guy a few years ago, and he rewrote what happened to everyone who asked about us. But, people knew that he was a player, so when he'd say ''she quit on us, etc...'' I didn't care, because I knew the truth. And eventually, they all saw what I saw, and ended their friendships with him. So...you don't need to drag someone through spreading what happened just because you got hurt by them....otherwise, you're no better than them, honestly.  People will figure out if they're your true friend, and know you well enough. 

Remember...you tell one person, he/she tells another person and so on and pretty soon people you barely know are asking you what happened, so just be prepared if you spread around a big story for everyone to chat about, you may be hearing about it for like ever. lol


----------



## sokillme

*Deidre* said:


> But what does it matter what others think happened? I get people ask, but honestly? If I knew someone was going through a divorce I wouldn't be like ''Sorry to hear, what happened?'' I mean, it's really not my business, unless the person wants to open up about it freely. But people are so dang nosy and must know. Not because they care, but because they like gossip. Your close family and a few close friends might care, but the rest? They just want to talk gossip, and I'm just not into sitting around giving them something to talk about.
> 
> I had a bad break up with a guy a few years ago, and he rewrote what happened to everyone who asked about us. But, people knew that he was a player, so when he'd say ''she quit on us, etc...'' I didn't care, because I knew the truth. And eventually, they all saw what I saw, and ended their friendships with him. So...you don't need to drag someone through spreading what happened just because you got hurt by them....otherwise, you're no better than them, honestly.  People will figure out if they're your true friend, and know you well enough.
> 
> Remember...you tell one person, he/she tells another person and so on and pretty soon people you barely know are asking you what happened, so just be prepared if you spread around a big story for everyone to chat about, you may be hearing about it for like ever. lol


Some people just like to be open. That is how I am. I like to talk about stuff so I would talk about it. At that moment it would probably be the primary thing going on in my life so it would be talked about. Doesn't make me right or you wrong that's just the way some people are.

As far as people asking me, I would tell them. Again I don't live my life worrying about what people who I don't care about think about me. Life is too short for that. I also suspect this is because I am older then you. There is a point in your life where you just don't worry too much about that. I have good friends, I have established a pretty good reputation. I don't have to worry about that because you can take a look at my life and see who I am.

It also my have to do with how women can be catty about other women. Men don't really operate that way, at least guys who I want to associate with.


----------



## Dyokemm

I understand Clemson's choice to improve the outcome of his D by avoiding exposing his WW and the POS at their work.....smart IMO.

After the D finalizes though, I do think there is one person that he needs to make SURE knows the A and its entire extent.

POSOM's BW!

OP's WW has told him that this dirtbag has already confessed and been kicked out of his house to his brother's.....but much of that story is very likely a lie.....either from WW to OP or from OM to the WW.

IMO, it is a little suspicious that OM's BW knows about the A but has made ZERO attempts to contact Clemson.

Now, we all know that some BS do not reach out to the other BS and feel uncomfortable about it.......but that is a minority position IMO.....most DO reach out in some way.

The fact that the BW here has not makes me think that she is either not aware of the A or that it is continuing.

After the D finalizes, I think Clemson should make sure that POS's BW is definitely aware of the A, that it is continuing, and that his exWW is now a free actor because their D is final.

This is the only way to ensure that this poor woman knows exactly what is going on in her M and life.

And if OM's BW blows them up at work?

LMAO....well that would just be sweet karma for them.


----------



## *Deidre*

sokillme said:


> Some people just like to be open. That is how I am. I like to talk about stuff so I would talk about it. At that moment it would probably be the primary thing going on in my life so it would be talked about. Doesn't make me right or you wrong that's just the way some people are.


No, I totally understand. I think that it's up to what you're comfortable with.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

@deidre haven't you heard that old people signal lane changes by changing lanes? Back up till you hear broken glass? 

Seriously at some point many of us just say what we want and don't GIF

And remember it's not a BF / GF situation then - it could be 10, 20, 30 years with that person.

So I get it - say what you want and let it go

That's all @sokillme is saying I think


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## musicftw07

TaDor said:


> If you are divorced... people are STILL GOING TO ASK?! "WHY?"
> 
> So either you are going to lie or say nothing... or tell the truth.


This succinctly describes all the available choices. I always opted to tell the truth. Whenever people asked why I'm divorced I never held back: "My ex wife was screwing a guy at her work."

I would then get the inevitable "Oh, I'm sorry!"

To which I would reply, "No need. I'm much happier post divorce." And then I smile like an idiot. :grin2:

There are only two people I have withheld the full truth from: my daughter and my ex MIL. I'll tell my daughter the full truth when she's older and can understand better. As to why I didn't tell my ex MIL when I had the chance...I can't really say. My gut just said to keep my mouth shut, and it's very rare where my instincts lead me astray.


----------



## Clemson

sokillme said:


> I get this, for me though I would never take a cheater back so it wouldn't matter.


I thought I was the same type of person. Can't explain why it wasn't my instinct. I think I thought my wife was still the innocent girl I married and this was a mistake. I was wrong.


----------



## Clemson

Dyokemm said:


> I understand Clemson's choice to improve the outcome of his D by avoiding exposing his WW and the POS at their work.....smart IMO.
> 
> After the D finalizes though, I do think there is one person that he needs to make SURE knows the A and its entire extent.
> 
> POSOM's BW!
> 
> OP's WW has told him that this dirtbag has already confessed and been kicked out of his house to his brother's.....but much of that story is very likely a lie.....either from WW to OP or from OM to the WW.
> 
> IMO, it is a little suspicious that OM's BW knows about the A but has made ZERO attempts to contact Clemson.
> 
> Now, we all know that some BS do not reach out to the other BS and feel uncomfortable about it.......but that is a minority position IMO.....most DO reach out in some way.
> 
> The fact that the BW here has not makes me think that she is either not aware of the A or that it is continuing.
> 
> After the D finalizes, I think Clemson should make sure that POS's BW is definitely aware of the A, that it is continuing, and that his exWW is now a free actor because their D is final.
> 
> This is the only way to ensure that this poor woman knows exactly what is going on in her M and life.
> 
> And if OM's BW blows them up at work?
> 
> LMAO....well that would just be sweet karma for them.


I sometimes wonder why OM's wife hasn't reached out to me. Is that normal that she would? I'm waiting until my divorce is final before I contact her. Don't want to rock the boat until the finances in divorce are nailed down.


----------



## GusPolinski

Clemson said:


> I thought I was the same type of person. Can't explain why it wasn't my instinct. I think I thought my wife was still the innocent girl I married and this was a mistake. I was wrong.


Because attachment.

Because delusion.

Because status quo bias.

Because love.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By Clemson*
> I took my wife for granted the last 1-2 years
> 
> My wife seemed happy and never voiced any concerns, unhappiness or unfulfilment. We had just been on a great trip to the Caribbean 6 months earlier. I looked at my old texts and even just before the affair my wife was texting me on her business trip that she missed me like crazy and couldn't wait to be home.


Clemson
I hope you are through with your thinking about what you did and that you could have done better. We all could have done better but it is like you may have committed a misdemeanor but she committed a 1st degree murder. Stop being concerned about you taking your wife for granted because it was not that bad or else your wife would have said something. *You taking your wife for granted without her saying a word is not even close to a good excuse for her or you to blame you.
*




[quote*]By Clemson*
I am prepared for her to try to come back in the future and am anxious to finalize the D[/quote]

You can bet she will be trying to come back in the future. Here are a few reasons why:

1	She has not lived with the OM nor smelled his stinky breath in the morning and his passing gas

2	She will eventually realize that she is not number one, in fact she is not even number 2 or 3. The OM will eventually prove to your wife that he is number one then his 3 children will be next inline. Your wife will be lucky if she is number 5

3	She and the OM will experience the effect of financial strain as the OM will have very little money after paying child support for three young children for many years


4 Your wife will feel the pain of being big disappointment to her parents and to her other family members.

5	After the OM gets tired of your wife he will probably try and go back to his wife because they have a very strong bond by having 3 children together.


6	Your wife will never have a great relationship with the OM’s children and they may even despise her.

7	The OM has proven that he will cross a line with his wife and children that is very detrimental to integrity and character so he will have no problem betraying your wife in the months or years to come.

*Living with someone and facing life’s struggles and disappointments takes a LOT away from a person’s fool like fantasies. Your wife will learn that in the future.*

Yes, I do think that your wife will come back some day to you with big tears and lots of emotion, however, the damage is now done and she will have to bear her consequences that she alone made.

You, Clemson, are very wise, have a great plan for such a hurtful crises, and have implemented your plan like a pro! You will be much relieved after May 2 and have a lot of time to build up your retirement and to have a very good life. You have not degraded yourself and can walk with your head up high.

As for your now great pain? “This Too Shall Pass”


Your wife is in a fog (that is an understatement) that she willfully planned to be in. *Her dedication to acting on her feelings over commitment, trust, loyalty and honesty has severely damaged her character*. She may be very physically attractive but the lack of integrity and her willful betraying will over rule her attractiveness. Also, when she is in her later years her attractiveness will leave and then she will have nothing to offer.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I thought I was the same type of person. Can't explain why it wasn't my instinct. I think I thought my wife was still the innocent girl I married and this was a mistake. I was wrong.


Well it only happened to me once and it wasn't my wife. I tried to hold on for about a month, then I just couldn't stand myself any longer. I had lost all self respect. I basically gave up on her and decided I would rather never be happy again then allow myself to stay with someone who treated me so poorly. I was pretty sure I wouldn't be. I was very wrong. 

The problem for the next girl such as my wife would be now I know I will be fine. I have no fear at all. You need to get to that point. It is quite liberating. I fear the pain of being cheated on, but not the finality if you get my meaning. Life will go on, it always does.


----------



## sokillme

Mr Blunt said:


> Clemson
> I hope you are through with your thinking about what you did and that you could have done better. We all could have done better but it is like you may have committed a misdemeanor but she committed a 1st degree murder. Stop being concerned about you taking your wife for granted because it was not that bad or else your wife would have said something. *You taking your wife for granted without her saying a word is not even close to a good excuse for her or you to blame you.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am prepared for her to try to come back in the future and am anxious to finalize the D
> 
> You can bet she will be trying to come back in the future. Here are a few reasons why:
> 
> 1	She has not lived with the OM nor smelled his stinky breath in the morning and his passing gas
> 
> 2	She will eventually realize that she is not number one, in fact she is not even number 2 or 3. The OM will eventually prove to your wife that he is number one then his 3 children will be next inline. Your wife will be lucky if she is number 5
> 
> 3	She and the OM will experience the effect of financial strain as the OM will have very little money after paying child support for three young children for many years
> 
> 
> 4 Your wife will feel the pain of being big disappointment to her parents and to her other family members.
> 
> 5	After the OM gets tired of your wife he will probably try and go back to his wife because they have a very strong bond by having 3 children together.
> 
> 
> 6	Your wife will never have a great relationship with the OM’s children and they may even despise her.
> 
> 7	The OM has proven that he will cross a line with his wife and children that is very detrimental to integrity and character so he will have no problem betraying your wife in the months or years to come.
> 
> *Living with someone and facing life’s struggles and disappointments takes a LOT away from a person’s fool like fantasies. Your wife will learn that in the future.*
> 
> Yes, I do think that your wife will come back some day to you with big tears and lots of emotion, however, the damage is now done and she will have to bear her consequences that she alone made.
> 
> You, Clemson, are very wise, have a great plan for such a hurtful crises, and have implemented your plan like a pro! You will be much relieved after May 2 and have a lot of time to build up your retirement and to have a very good life. You have not degraded yourself and can walk with your head up high.
> 
> As for your now great pain? “This Too Shall Pass”
> 
> 
> Your wife is in a fog (that is an understatement) that she willfully planned to be in. *Her dedication to acting on her feelings over commitment, trust, loyalty and honesty has severely damaged her character*. She may be very physically attractive but the lack of integrity and her willful betraying will over rule her attractiveness. Also, when she is in her later years her attractiveness will leave and then she will have nothing to offer.



All of this is true. You did nothing wrong you were fooled. Possibly by someone who doesn't even know themselves. Your wife is broken. Her character will hurt her life, and her future kids lives, if she has them. You really will be happy that you found out when you did.


----------



## Clemson

Mr Blunt said:


> Clemson
> I hope you are through with your thinking about what you did and that you could have done better. We all could have done better but it is like you may have committed a misdemeanor but she committed a 1st degree murder. Stop being concerned about you taking your wife for granted because it was not that bad or else your wife would have said something. *You taking your wife for granted without her saying a word is not even close to a good excuse for her or you to blame you.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [quote*]By Clemson*
> I am prepared for her to try to come back in the future and am anxious to finalize the D


You can bet she will be trying to come back in the future. Here are a few reasons why:

1	She has not lived with the OM nor smelled his stinky breath in the morning and his passing gas

2	She will eventually realize that she is not number one, in fact she is not even number 2 or 3. The OM will eventually prove to your wife that he is number one then his 3 children will be next inline. Your wife will be lucky if she is number 5

3	She and the OM will experience the effect of financial strain as the OM will have very little money after paying child support for three young children for many years


4 Your wife will feel the pain of being big disappointment to her parents and to her other family members.

5	After the OM gets tired of your wife he will probably try and go back to his wife because they have a very strong bond by having 3 children together.


6	Your wife will never have a great relationship with the OM’s children and they may even despise her.

7	The OM has proven that he will cross a line with his wife and children that is very detrimental to integrity and character so he will have no problem betraying your wife in the months or years to come.

*Living with someone and facing life’s struggles and disappointments takes a LOT away from a person’s fool like fantasies. Your wife will learn that in the future.*

Yes, I do think that your wife will come back some day to you with big tears and lots of emotion, however, the damage is now done and she will have to bear her consequences that she alone made.

You, Clemson, are very wise, have a great plan for such a hurtful crises, and have implemented your plan like a pro! You will be much relieved after May 2 and have a lot of time to build up your retirement and to have a very good life. You have not degraded yourself and can walk with your head up high.

As for your now great pain? “This Too Shall Pass”


Your wife is in a fog (that is an understatement) that she willfully planned to be in. *Her dedication to acting on her feelings over commitment, trust, loyalty and honesty has severely damaged her character*. She may be very physically attractive but the lack of integrity and her willful betraying will over rule her attractiveness. Also, when she is in her later years her attractiveness will leave and then she will have nothing to offer.


[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your comments. While I think I've got a good handle on things now, I don't feel that I handled things as a pro early on. I basically let my wife have a month plus to decide on me or OM. I should have dropped the hammer much earlier and made her choose. But it was the holidays and I wanted it to work. I think I was in shock and my own fog until she told me she was choosing OM. Only then did it hit home and I think I acted decisively and true to myself.


----------



## Clemson

GusPolinski said:


> Because attachment.
> 
> Because delusion.
> 
> Because status quo bias.
> 
> Because love.


I think you nailed it. The status quo one is still a problem sometimes. I don't like that furniture and pictures are missing from my house that she took with her. I plan to fill those spots once the divorce is final. I loved my life with her and wanted the status quo to continue. Obviously, I also loved her deeply and wanted to believe she would see the light.


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## Clemson

sokillme said:


> Well it only happened to me once and it wasn't my wife. I tried to hold on for about a month, then I just couldn't stand myself any longer. I had lost all self respect. I basically gave up on her and decided I would rather never be happy again then allow myself to stay with someone who treated me so poorly. I was pretty sure I wouldn't be. I was very wrong.
> 
> The problem for the next girl such as my wife would be now I know I will be fine. I have no fear at all. You need to get to that point. It is quite liberating. I fear the pain of being cheated on, but not the finality if you get my meaning. Life will go on, it always does.


I've concluded my wife is the kind of person who chases her feelings. If she doesn't have butterflies anymore, she doesn't think she she loves someone. Love is not a feeling because it is susceptible to change. Love is a choice. But she doesn't get that. During our attempt at reconciliation she wanted to do a book called Love Dare. It is actually pretty good. There was a section on love is a choice and lust is not love. I noticed she had a problem with every section that didn't jive with her feelings for OM. 

Once I let go of my wife a month ago, it has been very liberating. I am getting used to being alone and enjoying life with friends. I am looking forward to my new life.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
Inasmuch as she is capable of growth she may (or may not) realize at some point just how horrifically bad her "choices" were. If her mind is capable of growth then this is the type of experience that may spur it on. If so, she may indeed see the error of her ways, though I doubt ever fully, and try to regain that which she has so nonchalantly cast away. The problem is that her growth would have come at too high a price and sadly much too late. You will have moved on and will be nowhere near the place you are currently. She, however, would long to be back in that place.

It is fascinating that people can develop physically and yet remain so mentally retarded in their development. As you said she follows her emotions/feelings and hasn't the cognition to do otherwise so, in reality, she has no choice. She must follow her emotion/instinct rather than having the mental aptitude to direct her own life. I do actually feel a sense of sorrow for these people as they are completely at the mercy of the ebb and flow of life, chasing that dangling carrot for the entirety of their existence, usually down very destructive paths. And the really tragic aspect of this is that they all too often carry unsuspecting, trusting, committed people like us and their children with them until we decide to redirect our course as you have done. Good fortune to you as you travel your new path.


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## Clemson

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> Inasmuch as she is capable of growth she may (or may not) realize at some point just how horrifically bad her "choices" were. If her mind is capable of growth then this is the type of experience that may spur it on. If so, she may indeed see the error of her ways, though I doubt ever fully, and try to regain that which she has so nonchalantly cast away. The problem is that her growth would have come at too high a price and sadly much too late. You will have moved on and will be nowhere near the place you are currently. She, however, would long to be back in that place.
> 
> It is fascinating that people can develop physically and yet remain so mentally retarded in their development. As you said she follows her emotions/feelings and hasn't the cognition to do otherwise so, in reality, she has no choice. She must follow her emotion/instinct rather than having the mental aptitude to direct her own life. I do actually feel a sense of sorrow for these people as they are completely at the mercy of the ebb and flow of life, chasing that dangling carrot for the entirety of their existence, usually down very destructive paths. And the really tragic aspect of this is that they all too often carry unsuspecting, trusting, committed people like us and their children with them until we decide to redirect our course as you have done. Good fortune to you as you travel your new path.


My question is how do you identify these types of people during the dating process? Maybe her total dedication and passion for me with disregard of everyone and everything else was my red flag. I was too inexperienced to have seen it or known the potential repercussions. I sense OM is the same type of person based on what I know about him and the texts I've seen.


----------



## *Deidre*

Clemson said:


> My question is how do you identify these types of people during the dating process? Maybe her total dedication and passion for me with disregard of everyone and everything else was my red flag. I was too inexperienced to have seen it or known the potential repercussions. I sense OM is the same type of person based on what I know about him and the texts I've seen.


Yep, that's a big red flag in the beginning with dating. I've dated guys who texted non stop, said I love you way too soon (like after a week lol) and monopolized my time. At first it seems flattering, but it's a red flag for a toxic relationship, imo. The person probably does this with everyone, but if you don't know what to look for, it might seem like this person thinks you're amazing and special. When things move too fast, when the person shows signs of possessiveness and jealousy early on, and starts sending 1000 texts every hour, those are red flags to RUN. lol


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## BobSimmons

Clemson said:


> My question is how do you identify these types of people during the dating process? *Maybe her total dedication and passion for me with disregard of everyone* and everything else was my red flag. I was too inexperienced to have seen it or known the potential repercussions. I sense OM is the same type of person based on what I know about him and the texts I've seen.


And there you have it. It wasn't normal was it?

But like everything stroking the ego has a way of sweetening things. Didn't you notice during that time that even when you f*cked up she was still sweet? 

I hazard a guess even now if the sexiest woman strolled up up to you, said you were the best in bed etc etc you'd at least think about throwing caution to the wind before actually doing it.


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## Clemson

BobSimmons said:


> And there you have it. It wasn't normal was it?
> 
> But like everything stroking the ego has a way of sweetening things. Didn't you notice during that time that even when you f*cked up she was still sweet?
> 
> I hazard a guess even now if the sexiest woman strolled up up to you, said you were the best in bed etc etc you'd at least think about throwing caution to the wind before actually doing it.


It was definitely flattering. I could do no wrong. And everything I did was amazing and cool she thought. It is definitely hard to turn down a beautiful woman who thinks everything you do is amazing. I definitely got swept up in it. It never stopped either until the last 6 months either and then it was like a switch was flicked.


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## TX-SC

I have lots of friends and family who went to Clemson. Great school! I'm a CofC man mysrlf... 

Anyway, in regard to that month you gave your wife to choose. I don't see that as a huge mistake. You have a guilt free conscience now. You did what you could to save the marriage, but she refused. Hold your head high. There is nothing to be ashamed of. 

Now, have you talked to any nice, single women lately? 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## bankshot1993

Clemson said:


> It was definitely flattering. I could do no wrong. And everything I did was amazing and cool she thought. It is definitely hard to turn down a beautiful woman who thinks everything you do is amazing. I definitely got swept up in it. It never stopped either until the last 6 months either and then it was like a switch was flicked.


And that my friend is exactly how so many affairs start. A lot of flattery and a little flirting and then boom suddenly they are in the middle of an affair and don't even know when it started. That ego kibble turns their brain to mush and common sense goes out the window.

So you want a red flag to watch for when dating, that's the one. People that seek validation from other people, big warning. If your happiness depends on the ego kibble you get from others than you will drift from one relationship to another for the rest of time because while that ego kibble feels great at first eventually it stops meaning anything when it comes from the same person all the time. That's when they start to look for it from other people and when they find it they make themselves available to that person as much as possible so that it will keep coming.

I've said this over and over, when it comes to a "battle" for your wife, the OM has one unfair advantage. He is one thing that you, no matter how hard you try, you can simply never be, new. He represent new, excitment, danger, adventure, you represent the status quo, mundane, routine, boredom, responsibility, chores, etc:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:.

Yes you also represent safety, security, comfort and so many other great things but lets face it these aren't people that are interested in being safe, they want the excitement. You can bring your wife a dozen roses and you will be the great romantic husband the first time and the second time and the third time, but eventually the glitz wears off and even romantic gestures are just the routine so the novelty is gone. Its pretty hard to come up with new things after 10,20 or even 30 years.

If you are dating a person that needs that ego kibble from other people to find validation in themselves than I almost guarantee that once the marriage starts getting stale, she's going to be open to finding her ego boosts elsewhere.


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## NoChoice

Clemson said:


> My question is how do you identify these types of people during the dating process? Maybe her total dedication and passion for me with disregard of everyone and everything else was my red flag. *I was too inexperienced to have seen it or known the potential repercussions.* I sense OM is the same type of person based on what I know about him and the texts I've seen.


Indeed but now you are wiser and more seasoned. Her infatuation was immature and you realize that now. I would advise that you simply look for signs of mature behavior. What we naively deem to be "cute" may indeed be warning signs.


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## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by Clemson *
> I've concluded my wife is the kind of person who chases her feelings. If she doesn't have butterflies anymore, she doesn't think she loves someone.
> 
> It was definitely flattering. I could do no wrong. And everything I did was amazing and cool she thought
> 
> *My question is how do you identify these types of people during the dating process?* Maybe her total dedication and passion for me with disregard of everyone and everything else was my red flag.


Your quotes above are some of the identifiers to pay close attention to in dating.

Your wife is controlled by feelings and feelings cannot be trusted. Her total dedication to you with disregard of everyone, and her thoughts that everything you did was amazing and cool proves that she is too much of a co-dependent on others rather than herself. *She looks to others to fulfill all her needs instead of having it within herself to fulfill some of those needs*. Your wife loves the foolish fantasy world and allows those fantasies to be priority over real life.

Your soon to be ex-wife is going to have real hard struggles and great emotional pain in the future as her fairy tale fantasies come crashing down. You are still young and can recover. *Your future is much brighter!*


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## Clemson

bankshot1993 said:


> And that my friend is exactly how so many affairs start. A lot of flattery and a little flirting and then boom suddenly they are in the middle of an affair and don't even know when it started. That ego kibble turns their brain to mush and common sense goes out the window.
> 
> So you want a red flag to watch for when dating, that's the one. People that seek validation from other people, big warning. If your happiness depends on the ego kibble you get from others than you will drift from one relationship to another for the rest of time because while that ego kibble feels great at first eventually it stops meaning anything when it comes from the same person all the time. That's when they start to look for it from other people and when they find it they make themselves available to that person as much as possible so that it will keep coming.
> 
> I've said this over and over, when it comes to a "battle" for your wife, the OM has one unfair advantage. He is one thing that you, no matter how hard you try, you can simply never be, new. He represent new, excitment, danger, adventure, you represent the status quo, mundane, routine, boredom, responsibility, chores, etc:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:.
> 
> Yes you also represent safety, security, comfort and so many other great things but lets face it these aren't people that are interested in being safe, they want the excitement. You can bring your wife a dozen roses and you will be the great romantic husband the first time and the second time and the third time, but eventually the glitz wears off and even romantic gestures are just the routine so the novelty is gone. Its pretty hard to come up with new things after 10,20 or even 30 years.
> 
> If you are dating a person that needs that ego kibble from other people to find validation in themselves than I almost guarantee that once the marriage starts getting stale, she's going to be open to finding her ego boosts elsewhere.


I've said the exact same thing. I can't compete with new. Sex is new, interests are new, ideas are new, etc with OM and I'm a known commodity to my wife. Doesn't mean we can't have fun its just the newness is something I don't have. My wife finally moved all her stuff out of the house today. I am glad to be done with her although the house is a little empty.

You guys have been correct in a lot of things but the fact that a single decent-looking professional fun guy is in demand is true. I was worried that age 41 was little old for some women but not at all. I am constantly getting hit on now and getting set up with women. And these are attractive quality women. I'm also surprised how many women notice I don't have a wedding ring on. I don't notice whether a woman has a wedding ring on to be honest but they are all talking about the fact I don't have one on. Went to a St. Patrick's party yesterday and there was a lot of interest. I'm a little hesitant to do anything before my divorce is final in early May because I don't want to get my wife riled up and want to contest the divorce or our agreements. Definitely makes the future exciting.


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## curious234

Her friends know the real story since my wife told them. It has scared all the husbands apparently because so surprising. In fact, she told her friends there was an affair and they thought it was me. They were shocked it was her. As for her coworkers, part of our divorce settlement agreement is that I don't tell her coworkers because she and OM could be fired. I don't care at his point.
are you going to tell after the D? I think you should tell POSOM OW ASAP


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## Clemson

curious234 said:


> Her friends know the real story since my wife told them. It has scared all the husbands apparently because so surprising. In fact, she told her friends there was an affair and they thought it was me. They were shocked it was her. As for her coworkers, part of our divorce settlement agreement is that I don't tell her coworkers because she and OM could be fired. I don't care at his point.
> are you going to tell after the D?


No for a couple reasons. I don't really care anymore and if I tell she could possible challenge the agreement since that is part of the deal. Just no upside and I'm done focusing time on her. I need to move forward.


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## curious234

Thanks for your comments. While I think I've got a good handle on things now, I don't feel that I handled things as a pro early on. I basically let my wife have a month plus to decide on me or OM. I should have dropped the hammer much earlier and made her choose. But it was the holidays and I wanted it to work. I think I was in shock and my own fog until she told me she was choosing OM. Only then did it hit home and I think I acted decisively and true to myself.

Are you thinking of some kind of payback later?


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I've concluded my wife is the kind of person who chases her feelings. If she doesn't have butterflies anymore, she doesn't think she she loves someone. Love is not a feeling because it is susceptible to change. Love is a choice. But she doesn't get that. During our attempt at reconciliation she wanted to do a book called Love Dare. It is actually pretty good. There was a section on love is a choice and lust is not love. I noticed she had a problem with every section that didn't jive with her feelings for OM.


I know you are not saying this but I read this stuff all the time and I believe it's true however I have to say, even they feel this way why do that have to be such ****s about it. I mean it's not just not understanding the difference between love and lust. It's understanding loyalty and just common human decency. Like break up first before you basically destroy another person. Just cause you feel stuff doesn't mean you have to act on it, or at least you an delay it. This is what makes them really bad people, they treat other people, often times people who have sacrificed and lived their lives for them, people who have honored and loved them like disposable garbage. The really are the worst of the worst when you think about how they act. If life were just the wouldn't be allowed to be in any relationship ever again. That would have forfeited that card.


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> My question is how do you identify these types of people during the dating process? Maybe her total dedication and passion for me with disregard of everyone and everything else was my red flag. I was too inexperienced to have seen it or known the potential repercussions. I sense OM is the same type of person based on what I know about him and the texts I've seen.


This is good. Also look for character, do they do the right thing when it's hard. Are they honest with you even though it would be easy not to say anything. Do they take pride in doing the right thing. Do they identify part of themselves by the fact that they do the right thing. That isn't being nice, sometimes doing the right thing causes conflict. A lot of people mistake being nice to people or nice to be around as being good. That is not the case.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

[quote[/B]=Clemson;17547946]No for a couple reasons. I don't really care anymore and if I tell she could possible challenge the agreement since that is part of the deal. Just no upside and I'm done focusing time on her. I need to move forward.[/quote]

Keep that attitude sir. You are going to be fine and very likely will make a woman who truly appreciates you very happy.:smile2:


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## sokillme

bankshot1993 said:


> I've said this over and over, when it comes to a "battle" for your wife, the OM has one unfair advantage. He is one thing that you, no matter how hard you try, you can simply never be, new. He represent new, excitment, danger, adventure, you represent the status quo, mundane, routine, boredom, responsibility, chores, etc:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:.


Not all women want this though. Actually that could be a good thing to look for women who aren't looking for this. I think some healthy women don't mistake danger, excitement, adventure as strength. "Nice guys" are not attractive because they don't seem strong, but some women who pick the bad boys do so because they mistake danger or really selfishness as strength and assertiveness.


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I've said the exact same thing. I can't compete with new. Sex is new, interests are new, ideas are new, etc with OM and I'm a known commodity to my wife. Doesn't mean we can't have fun its just the newness is something I don't have. My wife finally moved all her stuff out of the house today. I am glad to be done with her although the house is a little empty.
> 
> You guys have been correct in a lot of things but the fact that a single decent-looking professional fun guy is in demand is true. I was worried that age 41 was little old for some women but not at all. I am constantly getting hit on now and getting set up with women. And these are attractive quality women. I'm also surprised how many women notice I don't have a wedding ring on. I don't notice whether a woman has a wedding ring on to be honest but they are all talking about the fact I don't have one on. Went to a St. Patrick's party yesterday and there was a lot of interest. I'm a little hesitant to do anything before my divorce is final in early May because I don't want to get my wife riled up and want to contest the divorce or our agreements. Definitely makes the future exciting.


You need to get on every thread where the poor slubs is holding on to a backstabbing cheating wife and say this ****. Tell them over and over how much fun you are having.


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## *Deidre*

And the one thing the OM is that you're not, OP...is a cheater. Any man willing to sleep with a married woman, is not a man at all. She will figure that out, you'll see...when he's cheating on her. That's what cheaters do.


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## bandit.45

Clemson said:


> I've said the exact same thing. I can't compete with new. Sex is new, interests are new, ideas are new, etc with OM and I'm a known commodity to my wife. Doesn't mean we can't have fun its just the newness is something I don't have. My wife finally moved all her stuff out of the house today. I am glad to be done with her although the house is a little empty.
> 
> You guys have been correct in a lot of things but the fact that a single decent-looking professional fun guy is in demand is true. I was worried that age 41 was little old for some women but not at all. I am constantly getting hit on now and getting set up with women. And these are attractive quality women. I'm also surprised how many women notice I don't have a wedding ring on. I don't notice whether a woman has a wedding ring on to be honest but they are all talking about the fact I don't have one on. Went to a St. Patrick's party yesterday and there was a lot of interest. I'm a little hesitant to do anything before my divorce is final in early May because I don't want to get my wife riled up and want to contest the divorce or our agreements. Definitely makes the future exciting.


If you are keeping the house, now is the time to turn it into the man-cave you have always wanted. Big screen TV, weight room, cigar humidor, and leather couches. Leather...lots of leather and wood.


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## Evinrude58

If I were in your position, I wouldn't remarry. If I did she'd have to be some kind of special.


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## Marc878

Id put a stripper pole in the bedroom. Start doing lunch at Hooters, etc.

Life gives you lemons you make margaritas 

Just sayin


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## bandit.45

I second the not getting remarried part.


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## TDSC60

Unfortunately, in the USA today, marriage is nothing more than a tax advantage.


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## GusPolinski

Evinrude58 said:


> If I were in your position, I wouldn't remarry. If I did she'd have to be some kind of *LOADED*.


Word.

(Fixed that for you.)


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## Be smart

Not only USA my friend. 

Also It is easier to live in the House if you have someone who is going to help you pay a rent and other stuff.


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## Clemson

I don't plan on rushing into any marriage. Ideally would date for 2-3 years before I would consider marrying anyone. I would like to have kids. I understand you don't have to be married to have kids but I'd prefer to be. I'm a relationship kind of guy so I can't see myself being single for 10 years or something.


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## TheTruthHurts

Clemson said:


> I don't plan on rushing into any marriage. Ideally would date for 2-3 years before I would consider marrying anyone. I would like to have kids. I understand you don't have to be married to have kids but I'd prefer to be. I'm a relationship kind of guy so I can't see myself being single for 10 years or something.




I don't blame you, but the key thing is to become completely comfortable with yourself as an individual who can live alone without a relationship and still be happy and fulfilled. Then you'll be in good shape to be a good marriage partner but also not rely on someone else too much to miss any warning signs or unresolved issues they may have. They're just as likely to bring issues to their next relationship (probably why the D rate of second marriages is higher). But if you're healthy and independent you'll both be more attractive and be able to se issues early so they can be addressed 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NoChoice

Clemson said:


> My question is how do you identify these types of people during the dating process? Maybe her total dedication and passion for me with disregard of everyone and everything else was my red flag. I was too inexperienced to have seen it or known the potential repercussions. I sense OM is the same type of person based on what I know about him and the texts I've seen.


I have reflected on this question with some diligence and have come to think that overall signs of maturity would be the single biggest indicator. I believe one of the most telling indicators about a persons maturity is contemplative thought especially in regards to finances. A large amount of debt would tend to indicate one who has difficulty denying themselves what they want. Try to ascertain their level of satiety with life in general.

Also pay attention to how they treat people. Do they seem able to acknowledge and understand how their interactions with other people affect them or do they show little to know concern for others.

In conversation do they focus on themselves obsessively as the point of the dialog or do they yearn for more information about other topics, including you. Listen closely to their sentence structure, are they actually saying what they mean to say to effectively convey their point or do they say "you know what I mean" too often expecting that you can "decipher" their intended message. Do they have opinions and viewpoints that they are able to defend with salient facts and figures not just hearsay and propaganda.

I know this is by no means all inclusive but it may give you food for thought as you enter the world of dating. I do know however, that the maturity level of society in general is declining rapidly so do be weary of that fact.


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## MyRevelation

NoChoice said:


> I have reflected on this question with some diligence and have come to think that overall signs of maturity would be the single biggest indicator. I believe one of the most telling indicators about a persons maturity is contemplative thought especially in regards to finances. A large amount of debt would tend to indicate one who has difficulty denying themselves what they want. Try to ascertain their level of satiety with life in general.
> 
> Also pay attention to how they treat people. Do they seem able to acknowledge and understand how their interactions with other people affect them or do they show little to know concern for others.
> 
> In conversation do they focus on themselves obsessively as the point of the dialog or do they yearn for more information about other topics, including you. Listen closely to their sentence structure, are they actually saying what they mean to say to effectively convey their point or do they say "you know what I mean" too often expecting that you can "decipher" their intended message. Do they have opinions and viewpoints that they are able to defend with salient facts and figures not just hearsay and propaganda.
> 
> I know this is by no means all inclusive but it may give you food for thought as you enter the world of dating. I do know however, that the maturity level of society in general is declining rapidly so do be weary of that fact.


I can't speak for Clemson, but the above descriptions hit eerily close to home. Would you please expand on your line of thinking ... you very much have my attention.


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## Steve1000

TheTruthHurts said:


> the key thing is to become completely comfortable with yourself as an individual who can live alone without a relationship and still be happy and fulfilled.


If someone can be completely happy living alone without a relationship, then would they want to get involved with a relationship? I think that most of us do have a longing to have a partner. Without one, life can be good, but I'd argue that it wouldn't be "completely happy" for most people.


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## TheTruthHurts

Steve1000 said:


> If someone can be completely happy living alone without a relationship, then would they want to get involved with a relationship? I think that most of us do have a longing to have a partner. Without one, life can be good, but I'd argue that it wouldn't be "completely happy" for most people.




A longing is very different. That's your desire. I'm talking about your capability. Can you be happy as an independent person? Can you be happy, independent and still want a relationship? Absolutely!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NoChoice

MyRevelation said:


> I can't speak for Clemson, but the above descriptions hit eerily close to home. Would you please expand on your line of thinking ... you very much have my attention.


I do not wish to threadjack but I do believe that this information would be relevant to the OP.

Adult relationships are very complex and involve an intricate network of thoughts, feelings, perceptions and responses. Due to this complexity, an immature individual is ill equipped to fully understand, act and react in a way that is productive and beneficial to the marriage. They are also incapable of handling their own emotions and feelings which further disadvantages their position.

Since their mind does not process information fully, or in some cases barely, their words, actions and interactions will paint a true picture of who they are. What may be superficially perceived as a person "acting cute" may, in reality, not be an act but rather an indication of their inability to handle or cope with a particular situation.

Likewise, displays of anger can be an indicator of a seriously underdeveloped intellect. In a truly mature individual there is rarely a need to display anger but in an immature person anger is quite often the first response to an adverse situation. Whereas a mature individual could communicate their concerns by presenting a reasoned argument, an immature person would become angry and storm off. Therefore, how a person handles their own emotions and feelings can be indicative as to their level of maturity.

When dating, there are usually behaviors displayed that will indicate a persons level of maturity such as the fiance in this thread becoming obsessed with the OP, unfortunately most times they are either overlooked in the infatuation of dating or taken as "cute" and therefore dismissed.


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## Clemson

Hey everyone. Quick update and a setback. My wife moved all her belongings out of the house last week. Now we are wrapping up the last of the financial issues. She keeps telling me she is entitled to half the furniture and I say I was entitled to not have a wife screw another guy but we don't always get what we want. I was removing my wife from our credit cards and noticed she has visited OM twice in the other state. Really angered me to know she was spending our money on dinners and hotels to bang this guy. My wife called and I yelled at her and called her every name in the book. First time I have melted down in anger since she admitted the affair 4 months ago. She started crying and I backed down. What a heartless b****. She used our frequent flyer miles to visit OM. She literally doesn't have any problem charging her escapades on our credit card. So disrespectful. Our divorce will be final the first week of May and she can't wait until then. I hate that I feel bad about yelling at her. I am doing really well except when I hear from her. I cannot wait to be rid of her. She doesn't understand why everyone won't just accept what is going on.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Clemson said:


> Hey everyone. Quick update and a setback. My wife moved all her belongings out of the house last week. Now we are wrapping up the last of the financial issues. She keeps telling me she is entitled to half the furniture and I say I was entitled to not have a wife screw another guy but we don't always get what we want. I was removing my wife from our credit cards and noticed she has visited OM twice in the other state. Really angered me to know she was spending our money on dinners and hotels to bang this guy. My wife called and I yelled at her and called her every name in the book. First time I have melted down in anger since she admitted the affair 4 months ago. She started crying and I backed down. What a heartless b****. She used our frequent flyer miles to visit OM. She literally doesn't have any problem charging her escapades on our credit card. So disrespectful. Our divorce will be final the first week of May and she can't wait until then. I hate that I feel bad about yelling at her. I am doing really well except when I hear from her. I cannot wait to be rid of her. She doesn't understand why everyone won't just accept what is going on.


Is there a way you can make her pay for these charges out of her part of the settlement? You're an attorney, so you would know better than anyone.


----------



## Satya

Wolfman1968 said:


> Is there a way you can make her pay for these charges out of her part of the settlement? You're an attorney, so you would know better than anyone.


Talk to your lawyer about this, save all the documentation. 

While I personally believe that you should put on a stoneface then go punch a punching bag to let off steam, sometimes it's actually good to just go off. I went ballistic at my ex one night after I had a big too much to drink. I was just furious and he was literally shocked because it was so unlike me to fly off the handle. But I told him how I REALLY felt. After that, things were different. He no longer talked to me like I was this buddy or understanding, best friend helping him to get ready for divorce. I was an angry woman tired of his crud. At least he stayed away so I could get on with things! 

Don't be hard on yourself. She deserved it all. You're upset because it's not something you wanted to resort to. Now maybe you can get down to serious business since you kicked her off of her unicorn.


----------



## sokillme

NoChoice said:


> I have reflected on this question with some diligence and have come to think that overall signs of maturity would be the single biggest indicator. I believe one of the most telling indicators about a persons maturity is contemplative thought especially in regards to finances. A large amount of debt would tend to indicate one who has difficulty denying themselves what they want. Try to ascertain their level of satiety with life in general.
> 
> Also pay attention to how they treat people. Do they seem able to acknowledge and understand how their interactions with other people affect them or do they show little to know concern for others.
> 
> In conversation do they focus on themselves obsessively as the point of the dialog or do they yearn for more information about other topics, including you. Listen closely to their sentence structure, are they actually saying what they mean to say to effectively convey their point or do they say "you know what I mean" too often expecting that you can "decipher" their intended message. Do they have opinions and viewpoints that they are able to defend with salient facts and figures not just hearsay and propaganda.
> 
> I know this is by no means all inclusive but it may give you food for thought as you enter the world of dating. I do know however, that the maturity level of society in general is declining rapidly so do be weary of that fact.


All of this is great. I would like to add I think it is terribly important that you OP have hard strong boundaries. You need to stick to them. I think lots of people of poor character are always testing these to see if you are the type of person who will accept their abuse. If you show that you have absolutely no quarter you will end up chasing the bad ones off. The good ones will be attracted to that though. Character and strength attracts the same. 

I think by the time it gets to the affair with a lot of these situations there have been many instances of boundary pushing. Things happening that lots of people would have already said HELL NO to. This is why you see so many people staying and even trying to R after the most brutal and horrible disrespect has happened to them. The accepting and staying just continues the pattern of abuse. The BS was already passive and codependent, they don't have the capacity to change and say enough at least not without a lot of work. The cheating is just the next phase in that dynamic. In a sense it was almost per-destend because the WS chose to be with the type of person who they knew would let them get away with it. I think that is also why the WS can do such horrible things and have the lack of shame to act like if they just apologies all will be well again. In many cases they are absolutely right and they knew all along they were going to get away with it. No one can convince me that these types of abusive people don't deliberately look for people who will put up with their ****. I say all that to say if you don't put up with the little crap they try to pull they will not stick along long enough for you won't have to suffer the indignity of the bigger crap. 

Another thing, from your first description it sounds like you were your wife's whole world. Now this guy is. You need to look for someone who is much more well rounded then that. It's really not normal. Again this goes back to boundaries and such. Something is wrong if a person can immerse themselves completely in another person to the point where they shut everyone and everything else out. That is not a healthy person and that makes them emotionally dangerous.

Finally start reading up on this stuff. Like anything else the more knowledge you have the better chance to make a good choice.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Hey everyone. Quick update and a setback. My wife moved all her belongings out of the house last week. Now we are wrapping up the last of the financial issues. She keeps telling me she is entitled to half the furniture and I say I was entitled to not have a wife screw another guy but we don't always get what we want. I was removing my wife from our credit cards and noticed she has visited OM twice in the other state. Really angered me to know she was spending our money on dinners and hotels to bang this guy. My wife called and I yelled at her and called her every name in the book. First time I have melted down in anger since she admitted the affair 4 months ago. She started crying and I backed down. What a heartless b****. She used our frequent flyer miles to visit OM. She literally doesn't have any problem charging her escapades on our credit card. So disrespectful. Our divorce will be final the first week of May and she can't wait until then. I hate that I feel bad about yelling at her. I am doing really well except when I hear from her. I cannot wait to be rid of her. She doesn't understand why everyone won't just accept what is going on.


I think it's very possible she has a personality disorder, or a very low IQ. She shows no long term decision making ability. She is almost child like. Not normal at all. Just a little while longer, it will all be over soon.


----------



## Clemson

sokillme said:


> All of this is great. I would like to add I think it is terribly important that you OP have hard strong boundaries. You need to stick to them. I think lots of people of poor character are always testing these to see if you are the type of person who will accept their abuse. If you show that you have absolutely no quarter you will end up chasing the bad ones off. The good ones will be attracted to that though. Character and strength attracts the same.
> 
> I think by the time it gets to the affair with a lot of these situations there have been many instances of boundary pushing. Things happening that lots of people would have already said HELL NO to. This is why you see so many people staying and even trying to R after the most brutal and horrible disrespect has happened to them. The accepting and staying just continues the pattern of abuse. The BS was already passive and codependent, they don't have the capacity to change and say enough at least not without a lot of work. The cheating is just the next phase in that dynamic. In a sense it was almost per-destend because the WS chose to be with the type of person who they knew would let them get away with it. I think that is also why the WS can do such horrible things and have the lack of shame to act like if they just apologies all will be well again. In many cases they are absolutely right and they knew all along they were going to get away with it. No one can convince me that these types of abusive people don't deliberately look for people who will put up with their ****. I say all that to say if you don't put up with the little crap they try to pull they will not stick along long enough for you won't have to suffer the indignity of the bigger crap.
> 
> Another thing, from your first description it sounds like you were your wife's whole world. Now this guy is. You need to look for someone who is much more well rounded then that. It's really not normal. Again this goes back to boundaries and such. Something is wrong if a person can immerse themselves completely in another person to the point where they shut everyone and everything else out. That is not a healthy person and that makes them emotionally dangerous.
> 
> Finally start reading up on this stuff. Like anything else the more knowledge you have the better chance to make a good choice.


Good points. In my case, I always had firm boundaries. I was the more dominant one in our relationship and one of the problems in our marriage was my wife apparently assumed I wouldn't like or approve of many things (though she never asked and I wouldn't have cared). My wife was actually surprised I didn't throw her out of the house after she disclosed the A. That was my first lack of boundaries. 

Your last point is spot on. It is clear my wife moves from obsession to obsession. Her whole life is now OM. Her family won't hear from her for days. She has told her family she is moving to OM's state in August. It is not healthy that her focus is the man she is with. I enjoyed it at he beginning and just thought she really loved me. Now I see it as a major flaw. She only had the one boyfriend before me so I didn't see a pattern. Now I look back and see she cut that guy out ruthlessly after focusing on him for years. Same thing happened to me. It will happen again.


----------



## Clemson

Satya said:


> Talk to your lawyer about this, save all the documentation.
> 
> While I personally believe that you should put on a stoneface then go punch a punching bag to let off steam, sometimes it's actually good to just go off. I went ballistic at my ex one night after I had a big too much to drink. I was just furious and he was literally shocked because it was so unlike me to fly off the handle. But I told him how I REALLY felt. After that, things were different. He no longer talked to me like I was this buddy or understanding, best friend helping him to get ready for divorce. I was an angry woman tired of his crud. At least he stayed away so I could get on with things!
> 
> Don't be hard on yourself. She deserved it all. You're upset because it's not something you wanted to resort to. Now maybe you can get down to serious business since you kicked her off of her unicorn.


I'll say it felt very good to let loose with my true feelings finally. I had planned to wait to give her my angry thoughts until after the divorce is final. I just lost it though when I see she's been on 2 vacations with the guy in the 5 weeks since I filed divorce. She is head over heels for OM. She is getting a separate credit card so I don't have to see what she is up to. Only negative was that I had a hard time sleeping last night because the whole incident stirred up anger and old emotions of her being with the OM again and having sex with him.


----------



## Clemson

sokillme said:


> I think it's very possible she has a personality disorder, or a very low IQ. She shows no long term decision making ability. She is almost child like. Not normal at all. Just a little while longer, it will all be over soon.[/QUOTE
> 
> Something is going on. She is 32 and acts like she is 15 all the sudden. She isn't thinking long term. As my good friend said, I am fun, nice, good-looking, financially successful and own my own business. Yet my wife is chasing a guy with 3 little kids, who is married, makes less money than her and who lives in a state that will prevent her from seeing her family. It makes no rational sense.


----------



## jsmart

Clemson said:


> Hey everyone. Quick update and a setback. My wife moved all her belongings out of the house last week. Now we are wrapping up the last of the financial issues. She keeps telling me she is entitled to half the furniture and I say I was entitled to not have a wife screw another guy but we don't always get what we want. *I was removing my wife from our credit cards and noticed she has visited OM twice in the other state. Really angered me to know she was spending our money on dinners and hotels to bang this guy.* My wife called and I yelled at her and called her every name in the book. First time I have melted down in anger since she admitted the affair 4 months ago. She started crying and I backed down. What a heartless b****. Sh*e used our frequent flyer miles to visit OM. She literally doesn't have any problem charging her escapades on our credit card. *So disrespectful. Our divorce will be final the first week of May and she can't wait until then. I hate that I feel bad about yelling at her. I am doing really well except when I hear from her. I cannot wait to be rid of her. She doesn't understand why everyone won't just accept what is going on.


This is why we always advise the betrayed to IMMEDIATELY separate the finances. Even if you think you may R, until you're sure that the wayward is a safe partner, you have to assume that they will clean you out. 

If you were see how common it is for a WW to use family money to buy gifts for, and spend money on hotels, restaurants, ETC you would've protected yourself. The OM usually being of a lower socioeconomic level, the WW starts being generous with her BH's money. Basically whoring on your dime. Doesn't even come to their mind that they're also betraying their own kids. Just pure selfishness. 

Let her destroy herself. Just protect yourself and the kids. Concentrate on rebuilding yourself. You'll bounce back from this.

BTW: have you exposed POS to his BW. If not, do so TODAY. It's funny how quickly they throw the OW under the bus when facing their BW's wrath. 

I've read 1000s of threads like this. Just take solace that it doesn't end well for your STBXW. She thinks she's going to steal POS from his wife. It RARELY happens. Most likely, she'll be strung along for a few years as this guy's side piece until she wakes up and realizes she's destroyed herself and has nothing but a bad reputation to show for it. That's why these online dating sites are littered with former adulterous divorcees with kids.


----------



## TDSC60

Clemson said:


> sokillme said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's very possible she has a personality disorder, or a very low IQ. She shows no long term decision making ability. She is almost child like. Not normal at all. Just a little while longer, it will all be over soon.[/QUOTE
> 
> Something is going on. She is 32 and acts like she is 15 all the sudden. She isn't thinking long term. As my good friend said, I am fun, nice, good-looking, financially successful and own my own business. Yet my wife is chasing a guy with 3 little kids, who is married, makes less money than her and who lives in a state that will prevent her from seeing her family. It makes no rational sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said cheaters are rational, logical thinkers???????? Not me.
Click to expand...


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## Marc878

Clemson said:


> sokillme said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's very possible she has a personality disorder, or a very low IQ. She shows no long term decision making ability. She is almost child like. Not normal at all. Just a little while longer, it will all be over soon.[/QUOTE
> 
> Something is going on. She is 32 and acts like she is 15 all the sudden. She isn't thinking long term. As my good friend said, I am fun, nice, good-looking, financially successful and own my own business. Yet my wife is chasing a guy with 3 little kids, who is married, makes less money than her and who lives in a state that will prevent her from seeing her family. It makes no rational sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you say "train wreck"?
Click to expand...


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## Evinrude58

Sounds like a trade down in all aspects. Typical.

Clem, you will trade up, typical.

Relish it, Clem. It will happen.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Good points. In my case, I always had firm boundaries. I was the more dominant one in our relationship and one of the problems in our marriage was my wife apparently assumed I wouldn't like or approve of many things (though she never asked and I wouldn't have cared). My wife was actually surprised I didn't throw her out of the house after she disclosed the A. That was my first lack of boundaries.
> 
> Your last point is spot on. It is clear my wife moves from obsession to obsession. Her whole life is now OM. Her family won't hear from her for days. She has told her family she is moving to OM's state in August. It is not healthy that her focus is the man she is with. I enjoyed it at he beginning and just thought she really loved me. Now I see it as a major flaw. She only had the one boyfriend before me so I didn't see a pattern. Now I look back and see she cut that guy out ruthlessly after focusing on him for years. Same thing happened to me. It will happen again.


Love is not obsession. You want a partner with healthy activities and likes because you could be the most interesting guy in the world and you still won't be enough to satisfy someone completely. It's not a good place to be a persons whole world. This is something you or anyone else can't live up to.


----------



## lordmayhem

Clemson said:


> sokillme said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something is going on. She is 32 and acts like she is 15 all the sudden. She isn't thinking long term. As my good friend said, I am fun, nice, good-looking, financially successful and own my own business. Yet my wife is chasing a guy with 3 little kids, who is married, makes less money than her and who lives in a state that will prevent her from seeing her family. It makes no rational sense.
> 
> 
> 
> So very typical. She is in the fog of affairland where it's all rainbows and unicorns. There is absolutely nothing you can do at this point to snap her out of it. It's the whole feeling of being in love again. Reality will hit one day, but not at this moment.
Click to expand...


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## Marc878

Hmmmm, id bet she's the type that will never fully understand what she wants and this will happen over and over. You are lucky to be free of this nightmare. 

You are losing what? You are gaining the freedom to do better.


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## Clemson

Evinrude58 said:


> Sounds like a trade down in all aspects. Typical.
> 
> Clem, you will trade up, typical.
> 
> Relish it, Clem. It will happen.


The only thing OM might have on me is being better looking (although I don't know what he looks like). I've just heard her say her coworkers think he's good looking.


----------



## Clemson

Marc878 said:


> Hmmmm, id bet she's the type that will never fully understand what she wants and this will happen over and over. You are lucky to be free of this nightmare.
> 
> You are losing what? You are gaining the freedom to do better.


This is what I think. I think she will continue to tire of guys, not know why and then move on. What makes me sick is that even today, a month plus since she has been gone, I still miss her some days and can't believe this happened. I never saw this coming.


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## Clemson

By the way, for those of you who have followed this saga, I am going on my first date this weekend. Very attractive woman with no kids and a very lucrative job. Almost a 180 from my wife - Very strong and independent. I've come a long way from the guy who let his wife have time to decide whether she wanted me or OM. I've lost 25 pounds and people think I look so good.


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## TX-SC

Clemson said:


> By the way, for those of you who have followed this saga, I am going on my first date this weekend. Very attractive woman with no kids and a very lucrative job. Almost a 180 from my wife - Very strong and independent. I've come a long way from the guy who let his wife have time to decide whether she wanted me or OM. I've lost 25 pounds and people think I look so good.


Have fun! I wish you good luck on the date. It'll be a great way to kind of get your mind off of the D. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

TX-SC said:


> Clemson said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, for those of you who have followed this saga, I am going on my first date this weekend. Very attractive woman with no kids and a very lucrative job. Almost a 180 from my wife - Very strong and independent. I've come a long way from the guy who let his wife have time to decide whether she wanted me or OM. I've lost 25 pounds and people think I look so good.
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun! I wish you good luck on the date. It'll be a great way to kind of get your mind off of the D.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

 Word of warning if she finds out you're on a date watch for her to try to make a play for you again. Be careful. Be very careful. Women are strange creatures


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## JohnA

You seem be doing well. Work on being aware of the decisions you make and why you make them. You asked early on how do I avoid making the same mistake. Do some reading on relationships. Start with "Not Just Friends" then divorce busters. Also seriously consider going to an IC - marriage counselor. Be this poster husband (note who benefited): 

Why improve yourself by the new wife of a BS*

As a side note I always find it very interesting when a person is hammering their ex mate so hard for cheating and refuses to accept any responsibility for anything that might have been wrong in the marriage.

My husband's exwife cheated on him and left him for the OM. She was pregnant by OM before the divorce was final. When I met him he admitted he knew he'd done things in the marriage which left it vulnerable to an affair.*

He didn't condone her affair but he accepted responsibility for his part in the demise of their marriage. That was something I had to respect. He worked on himself, in therapy, while they were separated and divorcing. When she wouldn't go to MC, he went alone, and I have reaped the benefit from that counseling. *

___________________________________________________________

BS be this person. *


----------



## Clemson

JohnA said:


> You seem be doing well. Work on being aware of the decisions you make and why you make them. You asked early on how do I avoid making the same mistake. Do some reading on relationships. Start with "Not Just Friends" then divorce busters. Also seriously consider going to an IC - marriage counselor. Be this poster husband (note who benefited):
> 
> Why improve yourself by the new wife of a BS*
> 
> As a side note I always find it very interesting when a person is hammering their ex mate so hard for cheating and refuses to accept any responsibility for anything that might have been wrong in the marriage.
> 
> My husband's exwife cheated on him and left him for the OM. She was pregnant by OM before the divorce was final. When I met him he admitted he knew he'd done things in the marriage which left it vulnerable to an affair.*
> 
> He didn't condone her affair but he accepted responsibility for his part in the demise of their marriage. That was something I had to respect. He worked on himself, in therapy, while they were separated and divorcing. When she wouldn't go to MC, he went alone, and I have reaped the benefit from that counseling. *
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> 
> BS be this person. *


I know I was not a perfect husband and I don't plan to jump into a new long-term relationship for several reasons and that is one - I want to continue to take stock of what I did wrong to better myself for the next woman. I have done a lot of self-analysis. I knew I was to blame for several things in my marriage but my wife never communicated that it bothered her even though I was not happy with myself. In the end, I truly believe nothing was going to prevent her from leaving. She just lost interest and chased another butterfly. She doesn't know how to handle her own feelings and ask what she wants. My goal had always been to please her but she never had any requests and I was left guessing or content to not do more. Taking her for granted is definitely a takeaway.


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## Tobyboy

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Word of warning if she finds out you're on a date watch for her to try to make a play for you again. Be careful. Be very careful. Women are strange creatures


I beg to differ! Let her see that she's just as replaceable as everyone else!!


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Tobyboy said:


> I beg to differ! Let her see that she's just as replaceable as everyone else!!


We are on same page. I was warning him to be on guard.


----------



## *Deidre*

Glad to see you are moving on and going on a date. Just enjoy and don't overthink it. lol


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## Clemson

I have done a lot of introspection over the last few weeks regarding my actions in our marriage. In fact, I've been unable to sleep at times because I can't stop analyzing what I did wrong. How do you handle introspection without feeling regret that if you had done something different, you would have saved your marriage? 

I can't help but feeling like I caused all this when I look at myself. I am struggling with this. 

I am the first to admit I took my wife for granted the last few months before the affair. My new business and stress took a lot out of me. I didn't want to fail us. As a trial attorney, I am a strong personality and opinionated. My wife says she felt she was walking on eggshells and being judged (although I didn't judge her - she would hear my opinion and then not speak up if she disagreed - sort of self-imposed judging of her by me). She admits she didn't communicate any unhappiness or sad feelings to me. I thought she liked me being opinionated. We have a lot in common but she tended to agree and adopt my opinions as our opinions (only after the A did I learn she sometimes disagreed with my opinions but didn't want to tell me because she thought I would judge her negatively). If I got angry about something, she shut down and became quiet instead of standing up for her position or self. Her sisters told her they wished she would have told them about her unhappiness before the A and she told them she wasn't always unhappy - just sometimes. My introspection has filled me with guilt that had I been less opinionated and blunt, had I been less stubborn or more inquiring about her feelings, I would have saved our marriage. I want introspection to better myself for the next go round but it makes me feel so guilty and sad that I screwed this one up. We really were very happy during 90+% of our marriage. This didn't seem like one that should end and that's what hurts so bad. No vices, flirting, cheating, abuse, financial problems, family problems, lies, etc until her A. For me, introspection is leading to feelings of regret and guilt for ruining a marriage that I truly loved.


----------



## Dr. Stupid

Clemson said:


> I have done a lot of introspection over the last few weeks regarding my actions in our marriage. In fact, I've been unable to sleep at times because I can't stop analyzing what I did wrong. How do you handle introspection without feeling regret that if you had done something different, you would have saved your marriage?
> 
> I can't help but feeling like I caused all this when I look at myself. I am struggling with this.
> 
> I am the first to admit I took my wife for granted the last few months before the affair. My new business and stress took a lot out of me. I didn't want to fail us. As a trial attorney, I am a strong personality and opinionated. My wife says she felt she was walking on eggshells and being judged (although I didn't judge her - she would hear my opinion and then not speak up if she disagreed - sort of self-imposed judging of her by me). She admits she didn't communicate any unhappiness or sad feelings to me. I thought she liked me being opinionated. We have a lot in common but she tended to agree and adopt my opinions as our opinions (only after the A did I learn she sometimes disagreed with my opinions but didn't want to tell me because she thought I would judge her negatively). If I got angry about something, she shut down and became quiet instead of standing up for her position or self. Her sisters told her they wished she would have told them about her unhappiness before the A and she told them she wasn't always unhappy - just sometimes. My introspection has filled me with guilt that had I been less opinionated and blunt, had I been less stubborn or more inquiring about her feelings, I would have saved our marriage. I want introspection to better myself for the next go round but it makes me feel so guilty and sad that I screwed this one up. We really were very happy during 90+% of our marriage. This didn't seem like one that should end and that's what hurts so bad. No vices, flirting, cheating, abuse, financial problems, family problems, lies, etc until her A. For me, introspection is leading to feelings of regret and guilt for ruining a marriage that I truly loved.


Introspection is fine. Learning from your past is fine. These are good things.

Regardless, cheating, breaking vows, and being dishonorable is a character flaw that cannot be justified. Honorable people see relationship issues as something to be worked on, and if they find that the relationship cannot be fixed, they do not unilaterally break their oath. They dissolve the relationship in an honorable manner first.

You cannot be held accountable for your wife's character flaws. As an honorable person, you spend time reflecting on your own actions, and seeking to become a better person, but never take the blame for the freedom of others to behave dishonorably.


----------



## GusPolinski

Clemson said:


> I have done a lot of introspection over the last few weeks regarding my actions in our marriage. In fact, I've been unable to sleep at times because I can't stop analyzing what I did wrong. How do you handle introspection without feeling regret that if you had done something different, you would have saved your marriage?
> 
> I can't help but feeling like I caused all this when I look at myself. I am struggling with this.
> 
> I am the first to admit I took my wife for granted the last few months before the affair. My new business and stress took a lot out of me. I didn't want to fail us. As a trial attorney, I am a strong personality and opinionated. My wife says she felt she was walking on eggshells and being judged (although I didn't judge her - she would hear my opinion and then not speak up if she disagreed - sort of self-imposed judging of her by me). She admits she didn't communicate any unhappiness or sad feelings to me. I thought she liked me being opinionated. We have a lot in common but she tended to agree and adopt my opinions as our opinions (only after the A did I learn she sometimes disagreed with my opinions but didn't want to tell me because she thought I would judge her negatively). If I got angry about something, she shut down and became quiet instead of standing up for her position or self. Her sisters told her they wished she would have told them about her unhappiness before the A and she told them she wasn't always unhappy - just sometimes. My introspection has filled me with guilt that had I been less opinionated and blunt, had I been less stubborn or more inquiring about her feelings, I would have saved our marriage. I want introspection to better myself for the next go round but it makes me feel so guilty and sad that I screwed this one up. We really were very happy during 90+% of our marriage. This didn't seem like one that should end and that's what hurts so bad. No vices, flirting, cheating, abuse, financial problems, family problems, lies, etc until her A. For me, introspection is leading to feelings of regret and guilt for ruining a marriage that I truly loved.


Stop.


----------



## Clemson

GusPolinski said:


> Stop.


Man I like your style. Woke up this morning from a dream in which I was being a jerk to my wife. My post was the result. Thanks for the slap in the face. I'd been doing well until I got in an argument with my wife about her spending money to visit OM and she started crying and saying that's why our marriage failed. It has been bothering me all week.


----------



## farsidejunky

It is okay to want to make yourself a better man. In fact, that is the only true way forward in your situation.

What is not okay is taking the leap in logic that what you did or failed to do led your wife to cheat. She made that choice.

Do not mistake correlation with causation.


----------



## dubsey

Clemson said:


> Man I like your style. Woke up this morning from a dream in which I was being a jerk to my wife. My post was the result. Thanks for the slap in the face. I'd been doing well until I got in an argument with my wife about her spending money to visit OM and she started crying and saying that's why our marriage failed. It has been bothering me all week.


Missed opportunity. "Sure, I have flaws, but I agree, your involvement with OM is why our marriage failed."


----------



## straightshooter

Clemson said:


> Man I like your style. Woke up this morning from a dream in which I was being a jerk to my wife. My post was the result. Thanks for the slap in the face. I'd been doing well until I got in an argument with my wife about her spending money to visit OM and she started crying and saying that's why our marriage failed. It has been bothering me all week.


No your marriage failed because she started banging another man. my question is if divorce is filed why is she spending any "joint" money to go visit her boyfriend. i hope i got that wrong.

No more introspection. She cheated, refused to stop, and that is why the marriage is ending. She left you no alternative other than letting her continue and living in the open marriage she created.

Get rid of her.!!!


----------



## GusPolinski

Clemson said:


> Man I like your style. Woke up this morning from a dream in which I was being a jerk to my wife. My post was the result. Thanks for the slap in the face. I'd been doing well until *I got in an argument with my wife about her spending money to visit OM and she started crying and saying that's why our marriage failed.* It has been bothering me all week.


Ha!


----------



## Satya

It's good to admit your past failings to yourself.

Make a point to never repeat them in your next relationship. Consider yourself evolved. You'll feel some guilt for not being that evolved man for your wife, but your past failings in no way justified her actions. She made her choices all on her own.


----------



## Evinrude58

Clem,
These cheating spouses NEED to convince you that the failed marriage is all your fault. This makes it easier for her to not feel like the trash she is for cheating on her husband. If her husband is a bad husband, in her cheating heart she is justified. Can you see how your rotten wife's mind works?

Here's the thing, YOU want this to be your fault, because subconsciously you think that you can fix it by fixing yourself.

Clem, there ARE NO perfect husbands. There aren't perfect wives. But deciding that it's ok to cheat with another person because your spouse is doing or not doing x, y, z??????
That's just low character, zero loyalty, and plain old not marriage quality person.

Stop beating yourself up. You know I'm your heart that you would fix your end if you could. Your wife took those chances away by her choice of betraying you.

Nobody is perfect. But your imperfections are not what caused her to cheat--- it was HER imperfections.

When you meet a woman of character, you will be glad you were released by your lousy wife.

I know how you feel, believe me.
I had nightmares, too. They will go away when you accept she's gone and start a new life with someone who loves you.


----------



## MyRevelation

GusPolinski said:


> Stop.


Exactly ... seriously Clemson ... there is one sure fire way to know that your WW is FOS when it comes to the anger, strong opinions, etc. ... she only mentioned it AFTER she got caught in her A. This is Wayward 101, Chapter 1 - blameshifting. Don't give it a minutes thought, because that's about all the thought that WW used to come up with such BS.


----------



## Yeswecan

Clemson said:


> Man I like your style. Woke up this morning from a dream in which I was being a jerk to my wife. My post was the result. Thanks for the slap in the face. I'd been doing well until I got in an argument with my wife about her spending money to visit OM and she started crying and saying that's why our marriage failed. It has been bothering me all week.


Because you did not fund the good time with OM? Sheesh....your STBX is really something.


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## Clemson

I don't think my imperfections caused her to cheat. That's on her. I hate thinking I didn't do my best at all times to be a good husband and I created a situation where she was unhappy (unknown to me) which is the last thing I wanted. It's basically just me wishing for a do-over which is not possible. In her time of weakness, she failed - not me. She also failed to communicate any unhappiness nor did she try to work on our marriage. She just gave up. I was willing to work on us but she was already hooked on the feelings with OM. One more month until I'm done with her. I do fine when I don't hear from her but as we get closer to the final divorce hearing, we have had more interaction to finalize all the details.


----------



## Evinrude58

Lol, she got mad because she had to use her own money to date her AP!!!!?????

Yeah, it's all Clem's fault. She's not self centered or has a sense of entitlement or anything.....
She's perfect, CLrm is an ass.
Lol, this woman is definitely going to have a hard life eventually.


----------



## Clemson

Yeswecan said:


> Because you did not fund the good time with OM? Sheesh....your STBX is really something.


I think she meant that I got angry and gave my opinions and she felt powerless to stand up to me and defend herself. She said she has no other money to do this stuff. I think she's visiting OM this weekend for 3rd time since we separated in mid-Feb - their relationship has consisted of nights at hotel rooms. Rainbows and unicorns. We're a month away from divorce and she's been on 3 weekend getaways with OM that I am essentially spending half the cost on because all money we earn right now is split. Serenity now!


----------



## Yeswecan

Clemson said:


> I don't think my imperfections caused her to cheat. That's on her. I hate thinking I didn't do my best at all times to be a good husband and I created a situation where she was unhappy (unknown to me) which is the last thing I wanted. It's basically just me wishing for a do-over which is not possible. In her time of weakness, she failed - not me. She also failed to communicate any unhappiness nor did she try to work on our marriage. She just gave up. I was willing to work on us but she was already hooked on the feelings with OM. One more month until I'm done with her. I do fine when I don't hear from her but as we get closer to the final divorce hearing, we have had more interaction to finalize all the details.


Well yeah, you own not being 100% totally there. Live and learn. But who can say they have been 100% totally there in a marriage 24/7/365? The rest of it is on your stbxw. 

Sorry it ended up as it did.


----------



## Clemson

Evinrude58 said:


> Lol, she got mad because she had to use her own money to date her AP!!!!?????
> 
> Yeah, it's all Clem's fault. She's not self centered or has a sense of entitlement or anything.....
> She's perfect, CLrm is an ass.
> Lol, this woman is definitely going to have a hard life eventually.


Definite sense of entitlement! When we were splitting up household items, she kept saying she's entitled to half. I responded that I was entitled to not have a wife screw another guy but life isn't always fair. I always refer to OM as the married father of three and it pisses her off. Pretty funny. Unbelievable that you can have an affair and break up a marriage and still feel entitled to your "share" of stuff.


----------



## Marc878

None of us are perfect and we can all use work. I'm sure your wife wasn't perfect either but did you go out and have an affair because of it?

See the difference?

Quit with the excuses for her.


----------



## Tron

She certainly is an accomplished and unremorseful blameshifter!

Stop allowing it. And stop killing yourself over this. 

Noone, and I repeat NOONE is perfect! Not you, not me, not anyone. We all make mistakes in marriage. Take what you've learned in this one and commit yourself to do better next time.


----------



## *Deidre*

Clemson said:


> I think she meant that I got angry and gave my opinions and she felt powerless to stand up to me and defend herself. She said she has no other money to do this stuff. I think she's visiting OM this weekend for 3rd time since we separated in mid-Feb - their relationship has consisted of nights at hotel rooms. Rainbows and unicorns. We're a month away from divorce and she's been on 3 weekend getaways with OM that I am essentially spending half the cost on because all money we earn right now is split. Serenity now!


Wow, your wife's OM is so classy, he's married and sneaks off to take your wife to hotels to use her for sex. lol Someday, she'll see it exactly like that, and you'll be long gone. It's funny that they think they're leaving for greener grass, but really it's anything but that.


----------



## Yeswecan

Clemson said:


> I think she meant that I got angry and gave my opinions and she felt powerless to stand up to me and defend herself. She said she has no other money to do this stuff. I think she's visiting OM this weekend for 3rd time since we separated in mid-Feb - their relationship has consisted of nights at hotel rooms. Rainbows and unicorns. We're a month away from divorce and she's been on 3 weekend getaways with OM that I am essentially spending half the cost on because all money we earn right now is split. Serenity now!


She feeling powerless is on her. Your W should have communicated that. I understand your stbxw did not. Puts the blame on you. Typical. 

No worries, unicorns get the runs every now and then. Rainbows disappear when the rain dries up. Your stbxw will display the non-communicative self in the future as routine invades fantasyland. Her behavior will not change. Watch the cycle begin again when OM stops the weekend get aways or....finds another to take away on weekends.


----------



## TDSC60

Clemson said:


> I don't think my imperfections caused her to cheat. That's on her. I hate thinking I didn't do my best at all times to be a good husband and I created a situation where she was unhappy (unknown to me) which is the last thing I wanted. It's basically just me wishing for a do-over which is not possible. In her time of weakness, she failed - not me. She also failed to communicate any unhappiness nor did she try to work on our marriage. She just gave up. I was willing to work on us but she was already hooked on the feelings with OM. One more month until I'm done with her. I do fine when I don't hear from her but as we get closer to the final divorce hearing, we have had more interaction to finalize all the details.


Her lack of character is what caused the marriage to fail.

Like most men with a deep love and respect for their family, you were working hard for a better future with your wife and potential children in the future. A future where your family would be financially secure. You cannot be faulted for that. But unlike most women, your wife failed to recognize and appreciate what you were doing and why.

Do not allow her twisted logic and blameshifting to cause you to accept that you could have done something different to avoid this. The OM simply fed her ego and she gave up her marriage and you because of it. Not because of something you did or did not do. She wanted to be the center of attention with no regard or thought about anything else. She has unrealistic and immature expectations of marriage and life.

Enough with the self blame already. Get that out of your mind. You actually dodged a bullet here. What if you had had a child with her before she showed you her real self?


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I have done a lot of introspection over the last few weeks regarding my actions in our marriage. In fact, I've been unable to sleep at times because I can't stop analyzing what I did wrong. How do you handle introspection without feeling regret that if you had done something different, you would have saved your marriage?
> 
> I can't help but feeling like I caused all this when I look at myself. I am struggling with this.
> 
> I am the first to admit I took my wife for granted the last few months before the affair. My new business and stress took a lot out of me. I didn't want to fail us. As a trial attorney, I am a strong personality and opinionated. My wife says she felt she was walking on eggshells and being judged (although I didn't judge her - she would hear my opinion and then not speak up if she disagreed - sort of self-imposed judging of her by me). She admits she didn't communicate any unhappiness or sad feelings to me. I thought she liked me being opinionated. We have a lot in common but she tended to agree and adopt my opinions as our opinions (only after the A did I learn she sometimes disagreed with my opinions but didn't want to tell me because she thought I would judge her negatively). If I got angry about something, she shut down and became quiet instead of standing up for her position or self. Her sisters told her they wished she would have told them about her unhappiness before the A and she told them she wasn't always unhappy - just sometimes. My introspection has filled me with guilt that had I been less opinionated and blunt, had I been less stubborn or more inquiring about her feelings, I would have saved our marriage. I want introspection to better myself for the next go round but it makes me feel so guilty and sad that I screwed this one up. We really were very happy during 90+% of our marriage. This didn't seem like one that should end and that's what hurts so bad. No vices, flirting, cheating, abuse, financial problems, family problems, lies, etc until her A. For me, introspection is leading to feelings of regret and guilt for ruining a marriage that I truly loved.



Please stop. Why were you building your business? Was it to spend on hookers and blow or was it for your family. Maybe you made some mistakes, however she cheated and from the posts on here she sounds legitimately disordered. See it for what it was she was never going to be able to give you more.

WS do this all the time they compare themselves to the affair partners or there situation and say "if only I". The truth is you got the best you were going to get out of her. She gave you the same thing she is giving this guy so he isn't getting more then you did, he isn't more special. But that is all she is capable of she is not capable of giving you the long term love that you wanted. 

Just move on and have a happy life.


----------



## Hope1964

I hope you keep posting here, because other than blaming yourself I think you are handling things extremely well. You've excised the cancer much more effectively than the vast majority of men we see.

What is your plan for when she comes crawling back? Because she will.


----------



## honcho

Clemson said:


> I don't think my imperfections caused her to cheat. That's on her. I hate thinking I didn't do my best at all times to be a good husband and I created a situation where she was unhappy (unknown to me) which is the last thing I wanted. It's basically just me wishing for a do-over which is not possible. In her time of weakness, she failed - not me. She also failed to communicate any unhappiness nor did she try to work on our marriage. She just gave up. I was willing to work on us but she was already hooked on the feelings with OM. One more month until I'm done with her. I do fine when I don't hear from her but as we get closer to the final divorce hearing, we have had more interaction to finalize all the details.


Your forgetting how much they rewrite history and convince themselves they must be "unhappy" in order to justify the affair to themselves. The unhappy speech is a hallmark of any affair yet the unhappiness is never discovered until they are getting thrills and euphoria that an affair brings. You could have done lots of things different the end result would be the same.


----------



## Decorum

Back after a long uphill health battle. Glad to see we are still blaming the BS. SMH.

So sorry Clemson.


----------



## VFW

There is nothing that you did that MADE her cheat. You are like most humans and made mistakes in the relationship, but you didn't make her cheat. I think that reflection is good, but don't look to lay blame either way. Instead concentrate on things you could have done better if given another chance, then apply them to your next relationship to make it better. Don't waste time on what she and POSOM are doing, instead fill your life with positive things and people.


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## 3putt

Decorum said:


> Back after a long uphill health battle. Glad to see we are still blaming the BS. SMH.
> 
> So sorry Clemson.


Haven't lately been around that much either, Decorum, but good to see you again. Sincerely hope those health issues are getting resolved. Dealing with some myself.


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## Decorum

Thanks 3putt,
good to know you are still up and kicking around. Yep I am back to work after 16 months and things are better. Sorry to hear you are facing things too. I will keep you in mind (thats what i say when I mean I will pray for you ha ha ha). PM me if something comes up. Take care!


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I think she meant that I got angry and gave my opinions and she felt powerless to stand up to me and defend herself. She said she has no other money to do this stuff. I think she's visiting OM this weekend for 3rd time since we separated in mid-Feb - their relationship has consisted of nights at hotel rooms. Rainbows and unicorns. We're a month away from divorce and she's been on 3 weekend getaways with OM that I am essentially spending half the cost on because all money we earn right now is split. Serenity now!


Why can't he pay for it. Jeez. I would want a do over too, a do over from ever meeting her.


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## cgiles

Clemson said:


> I can't help but feeling like I caused all this when I look at myself. I am struggling with this.


If you caused it, it would mean you have some controls over it, and you are not a victim. 

Cheating is a form of abuse. It ruins the loyal partner integrity, selfworth, expose them to lie, manipulations, high stress. It can even expose them to physical violence, stds, or simply the high stress wrecking their health.

You are a victim of her betrayal. 

There is a gold rule, about abuse, you must never blame the victim. Because if you start to justify a form of abuse, by blaming the victim, you can start to justify any kind of abuse. Domestic violence ? Well, the victim could have learned to cook. Rape ? The victim could have acted less flirty. Etc...



> I been less stubborn or more inquiring about her feelings, I would have saved our marriage.


I think it was on another forum about infidelity. There was a man who been cheated on, after two decades of a perfect marriage, dixit his wife, post affair. She cheated on him, because he was not helping to organize their daughter's marriage, and OM was. The betrayed husband, was just working his ass, for pay the bill. 

Do you think if he worked less, he would have saved his marriage ? 

Or this woman who posted here, last year, who had cheated on her husband, because she was bored, as he was not the bad boy he was when they met. He became mature, grow up, a great provide, great father, great husband. 

Do you think if he still the young man he was, didn't became mature, didn't made the choices needed for provide his family, he would have saved his marriage ?

Yes, you been less available, and took her for granted.

But the right and fair thing to do, is to go to your partner, and points it out, and if they don't react, to go in couple therapy, or divorce.

The wrong and bad thing to do, is to include a third party in your marriage. 

Accept you are a victim of her betrayal, and she is broken or cracked inside.That's why she cheated on you, not because you was less available, or took her for granted, but because in her is broken or cracked, and she allowed herself to cheat on you. She decided she deserved it, and now use those justification, she used for not look at herself as the bad guy, for excuse what she did. 

Accept you are just a passenger in this, accept you have no responsibility in this. 

It asks you to accept the woman you married is gone long ago, and maybe that's why you want to be guilty, so she wouldn't be so bad.


----------



## Evinrude58

Clem, you'll feel a whole lot differently about this when you're divorced, and dating some younger, sexier, classier, harder working, more loving, better in bed, etc etc lady.
Your wife is not the best there is. She made her choice to gut you and hang you out to rot.
I would have no problem seeing how she handles her life post Clemson, and if it crumbles as we all suspect, don't bail her out at your expense.
Stop worrying about her. She's not yours anymore, of her own choice, to worry about.
Divorce her and tell us about the new amazing woman in your life and how happy you are.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

YOUR own perfection could never have compensated for HER flaws.

I've seen stories where the cheater's reason for the affair is that their spouse was too good and they felt they couldn't keep up!

You want to look back and think that it wouldn't have happened if you had done something different because that would give you back a sense of control over everything. The aftermath of an affair feels very much out of your control.

Find the things that you can control instead of dwelling on what you can't. You want her to stop charging her trysts on the joint card? Close the joint account.


----------



## jlg07

Clemson said:


> I think she meant that I got angry and gave my opinions and she felt powerless to stand up to me and defend herself. She said she has no other money to do this stuff. I think she's visiting OM this weekend for 3rd time since we separated in mid-Feb - their relationship has consisted of nights at hotel rooms. Rainbows and unicorns. We're a month away from divorce and she's been on 3 weekend getaways with OM that I am essentially spending half the cost on because all money we earn right now is split. Serenity now!


So since she has no other money she thinks it was ok to take YOUR money so she can go bang the other man? WOW. Just don't understand that logic. Oh yeah that's because it's not logic. Just twisted. .


----------



## TDSC60

I think they have separate banking account, but since divorce is basically adding everything into one big pot then splitting it 50/50, he feels she is taking money from the pot before the final split and the pot is getting smaller due to her trips to keep the affair going and 50% of the money being spent by her should belong to him.

Clemson, if this is the case, you should be able to bring any out-of-the-norm spending that should be addressed in the final settlement. Flights, hotels, meals - everything.


----------



## Clemson

TDSC60 said:


> I think they have separate banking account, but since divorce is basically adding everything into one big pot then splitting it 50/50, he feels she is taking money from the pot before the final split and the pot is getting smaller due to her trips to keep the affair going and 50% of the money being spent by her should belong to him.
> 
> Clemson, if this is the case, you should be able to bring any out-of-the-norm spending that should be addressed in the final settlement. Flights, hotels, meals - everything.


You are correct. And this is what we are going to do.


----------



## bandit.45

Take it one day at a time Clemson. There will be lots of self-doubt and self-incrimination. Don't not buy into it. 

Your wife is a low-down, rotten, cheating liar. That is the truth. Focus on that. 

You did nothing to deserve this. Like others have said, one day you will be free and able to steer your own path. This is the beginning of the rest of your life. Look forward to it. Stop looking back.


----------



## TDSC60

When is the divorce final?


----------



## Clemson

TDSC60 said:


> When is the divorce final?


May 2. Can't come soon enough. This limbo stage is awkward for dating. people want to set me up but understandably want to wait until I'm single. It will also be nice to finally be done with my wife. Just seeing her name pop up on a text or email makes me sick, sad, angry, etc.


----------



## Clemson

bandit.45 said:


> Take it one day at a time Clemson. There will be lots of self-doubt and self-incrimination. Don't not buy into it.
> 
> Your wife is a low-down, rotten, cheating liar. That is the truth. Focus on that.
> 
> You did nothing to deserve this. Like others have said, one day you will be free and able to steer your own path. This is the beginning of the rest of your life. Look forward to it. Stop looking back.


You are right. Thanks for your thoughts. For the most part I'm in a good place. My life alone feels normal now and I'm keeping very busy and enjoying myself. It's only occasionally that I have a bad day. Sunday was tough. My sister in law asked me to come to church with her and my brother in law. I thought it would be good to see them but all it did was bring back memories. I decided I can't see her family any more. That was a bad idea. On a positive note, It is getting hard for me to remember the good times with my wife so that makes this easier. 

I am very excited about the future and dating in particular. I don't go a day without someone trying to set me up with a quality woman. I'm going to have my hands full when this divorce is final. I have told my friends I enjoyed being married to my wife and didn't want it to end but if it has to, I am excited about my current situation. Not a bad fall back position.


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## TDSC60

Yeah. Hanging out with her family before the divorce is even final is a bit too much. Even with their good intentions, just being around them brings back memories of your cheating wife and sets you back in your path to healing.

Going out with quality women is a good way to start healing from the hurt. Just realize that you in emotional upheaval now and will be for several months. Don't get too attached to any of the new women.


----------



## Marc878

Clemson said:


> You are right. Thanks for your thoughts. For the most part I'm in a good place. My life alone feels normal now and I'm keeping very busy and enjoying myself. It's only occasionally that I have a bad day. Sunday was tough. *My sister in law asked me to come to church with her and my brother in law. I thought it would be good to see them but all it did was bring back memories.* I decided I can't see her family any more. That was a bad idea. On a positive note, It is getting hard for me to remember the good times with my wife so that makes this easier.
> 
> I am very excited about the future and dating in particular. I don't go a day without someone trying to set me up with a quality woman. I'm going to have my hands full when this divorce is final. I have told my friends I enjoyed being married to my wife and didn't want it to end but if it has to, I am excited about my current situation. Not a bad fall back position.


Good lesson learned. If you don't purge everything about her it'll just hold you back.

Once the D is final get a new phone number or block everyone, social media, email, etc.

Most can't let Go and wallow in the victim or "woe is me" mode.

Make no mistake her family would love to keep you as plan B. They know where this is headed.


----------



## Clemson

Getting closer to the finish line. My wife is so infatuated with OM that she just met his parents. We've only been separated 2 months. I think its beyond bizarre. They are both still married. I can't imagine as a parent meeting your son's married girlfriend and the one who broke up your son's marriage and family. These two are meant for each other.


----------



## Satya

OP, have you ever heard about the al-anon "three C's?" 

I didn't *c*ause it.
I can't *c*ontrol it.
I can't *c*ure it.

Pretty pertinent in many situations.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Yes... funny how people like to become karma-magnets, those acting on emotions based on affairs seem to do that.

As for your SIL and BIL... they may simply be good people looking after good people, good Christians do that. In time you may see them as such once you have accepted that your former wife cannot hurt you any more.

Stand tall good sir, stand tall... remember one can travel further with bridges than walls.


----------



## rockon

Clemson said:


> I can't imagine as a parent meeting your son's married girlfriend and the one who broke up your son's marriage and family.


I'd say that was a rather tense meeting.


----------



## Thundarr

Clemson said:


> Looking back, I can't believe I have put up with all this over the past 3 months. I foresee my Wife returning in the future but I don't know if I would even want her back. Filing for divorce did not snap her out of it. I have lost 20 lbs and am in the best shape I've been in 15 years. Anything else I should be doing? Any words of encouragement? I'd be lying if I said I don't miss her everyday still.


It's almost guaranteed that she will be back and that's why you're grieving. You know it will probably be too late for you to attempt reconciliation then. Yes; you miss her, you miss your dreams of a future together and mostly you just feel a loss. Hang in there Clemson.


----------



## bandit.45

Thundarr said:


> It's almost guaranteed that she will be back and that's why you're grieving. You know it will probably be too late for you to attempt reconciliation then. Yes; you miss her, you miss your dreams of a future together and mostly you just feel a loss. Hang in there Clemson.


No she won't come back. If things with Mr Perfect don't work out she will just go out and find another shmuck to leech off of. Women like her are too proud and too selfish and have egos too fragile to ever admit they did anything wrong. She will walk in front of a cement truck before she ever asks Clemson for his forgiveness. 

She and her new man could very well go on and buck the odds and actually have a long successful marriage. But, there is less a chance it will be a truly happy one. 

What she WILL do is continue to make the same bad choices over and over in her life. She will never have any internal stability...not with this new man...not with anyone. Because she's a broken, lost, self-deluded soul.


----------



## Marc878

Clemson said:


> Getting closer to the finish line. My wife is so infatuated with OM that she just met his parents. We've only been separated 2 months. I think its beyond bizarre. They are both still married. I can't imagine as a parent meeting your son's married girlfriend and the one who broke up your son's marriage and family. These two are meant for each other.


The looney tune family no doubt. She'll fit right in.....

For awhile


----------



## curious234

My WW met the parents ---- why are you checking her out in media? Just like you said meeting in laws make you sad, you should more so detach / block from whatever that is associated with WW. Done and dusted. It is not worth anything different after all this time otherwise she will feel entitled and spoiled after all her blatant disregard and disrespect.

---I can't imagine as a parent meeting your son's married girlfriend and the one who broke up your son's marriage and family.--- So the POS was not separated when he met your wife? Better to go nuclear informing BW and as well as POSs' company HR without bothering the alimony etc. At least do it after D in May


----------



## Clemson

I found out my wife met OM's parents from a mutual friend. I told him I don't want to know anything else about my wife but he told me that info before.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

bandit.45 said:


> No she won't come back.


I agree, sadly I know of at least 2 cheaters that have even married and are doing quite good, I believe is a myth that fate or karma always catches up with then, many totally get away with dumping their loyal spouse and move on to a good life with AP. But you will be allright *Clemson*, walk with your head high and dont look back!!


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I found out my wife met OM's parents from a mutual friend. I told him I don't want to know anything else about my wife but he told me that info before.


This is good. Do everything in your power to purge all feelings for your crazy ex. The next women who you will be with deserves that. Now is the time to start planning forward, no longer looking back. No what could have beens. No it was good once. That phase of your life is over forever, and that is OK. It happens.


----------



## straightshooter

Clemson,

I am not an attorney but I don't understand why if the divorce filing is done that you are still responsible for debts she is incurring now.

But regardless, if it makes you feel any better, while none of us here nor you has any inkling how this relationship of theirs will work out, the statistics are not in their favor. A significant majority of relationships hatched out of infidelity end badly and many times for the same reason. 

Your best revenge will be to purge her from your life and be happy. That will happen, You are in the homestretch. Just keep making like a NASCAR driver, one gear fast forward and no reverse.


----------



## chillymorn69

Good riddens! 

Stick with the plan. You will be fine!


----------



## Clemson

straightshooter said:


> Clemson,
> 
> I am not an attorney but I don't understand why if the divorce filing is done that you are still responsible for debts she is incurring now.
> 
> But regardless, if it makes you feel any better, while none of us here nor you has any inkling how this relationship of theirs will work out, the statistics are not in their favor. A significant majority of relationships hatched out of infidelity end badly and many times for the same reason.
> 
> Your best revenge will be to purge her from your life and be happy. That will happen, You are in the homestretch. Just keep making like a NASCAR driver, one gear fast forward and no reverse.


In my state, our assets are joint until the divorce decree is final. Filing the divorce does not prevent her from still having a right to a portion of my paycheck for example.

15 days until it is over. Some times I still can't believe this is happening. Literally, every time I see a new group of people I know I get hugs from the girls and no one can believe it. We were so happy and it showed. My wife is dead and this new person is like a child. I am in the best shape I've been in since college and have enjoyed the single life so far. It's the "what the hell happened?" question that still bothers me sometimes and I know there is no answer.


----------



## curious234

May you have all the mental strength to ride through the few days remaining and then towards happiness once this immoral liability is history


----------



## Marc878

Please do yourself a favor and don't accept a hug and wish her well at the divorce hearing. God I hate that kind of BS. 

It should be a quick in and out with no engagement.


----------



## bandit.45

Clemson said:


> It's the "what the hell happened?" question that still bothers me sometimes and I know there is no answer.


When someone asks this, just say _"We divorced because I wasn't willing to share her with her boyfriend."_ And leave it there. You don't need to get into the dirty details with anyone. If they press, ask them to respect your privacy and not mention it again.


----------



## bandit.45

Marc878 said:


> Please do yourself a favor and don't accept a hug and wish her well at the divorce hearing. God I hate that kind of BS.
> 
> It should be a quick in and out with no engagement.


Yep. The second that gavel hits the desktop, walk straight out and don't stop. Get in your car and leave. Don't look at her, don't talk to her, don't say a word.


----------



## Malaise

bandit.45 said:


> Yep. The second that gavel hits the desktop, walk straight out and don't stop. Get in your car and leave. Don't look at her, don't talk to her, don't say a word.


At that point she's just someone you used to know.


----------



## SunCMars

bandit.45 said:


> No she won't come back. If things with Mr Perfect don't work out she will just go out and find another shmuck to leech off of. Women like her are too proud and too selfish and have egos too fragile to ever admit they did anything wrong. She will walk in front of a cement truck before she ever asks Clemson for his forgiveness.
> 
> She and her new man could very well go on and buck the odds and actually have a long successful marriage. But, there is less a chance it will be a truly happy one.
> 
> *What she WILL do is continue to make the same bad choices over and over in her life. She will never have any internal stability...not with this new man...not with anyone. Because she's a broken, lost, self-deluded soul.*


That is YOUR wish and YOUR hope, including all who have read Clemson's post. *All of us [minus @browser] WISH this to be true.*

Only Hope [not from Canada] keeps us sane. Life can be hard, IS UGLY on many fronts...from so many affronts, from other vile ****-Sapiens.

People naturally want Justice. Demand Justice. 

Justice comes from without. It is fluid and is applied poorly, with few feeling satisfied. 

In civilized society [which I must ascribe to] is Justice is applied from without....by others, by fate, by competing interests.

In the old days, Justice came at the Tip of the Sword, the End of a Gun. The kind of justice that @ConanHub and my ethereal-double love.


----------



## Danny4133

@SunCMars

QFT and as my mates and I say "Deep man, deep"


----------



## bandit.45

Well, I guess my ultimate point is, OP needs to move on and past the need to worry or care about his WW and her future. It's not his to influence anymore.


----------



## Evinrude58

I would bet a year's salary that Clem's wife and this OM crash and burn within a year.
No takers, though. But I seriously would bet.

Who cares, though? As stated, Clemson should treat her like she has the plague and never speak to her for any reason after the divorce. Clemson, I can personally tell you that any interaction that you have with your soon-to-be ex wife once divorced, will only bring you pain of some kind, in variable degrees. She should be treated like what she is--- a low-life unworthy of telling her the time of day.

YOU thought the marriage was great. SHE never appreciated what you had to offer, hence the betrayal. Remember that if she comes into your life again, with a slime trail behind her. She placed no value whatsoever on your love, your loyalty, your hard work, your companionship. Place the EXACT same value on her, now that she has excluded you from her life. 
I am certain you are going to meet someone better. It won't be difficult....
Sorry man...


----------



## Clemson

Evinrude58 said:


> I would bet a year's salary that Clem's wife and this OM crash and burn within a year.
> No takers, though. But I seriously would bet.
> 
> Who cares, though? As stated, Clemson should treat her like she has the plague and never speak to her for any reason after the divorce. Clemson, I can personally tell you that any interaction that you have with your soon-to-be ex wife once divorced, will only bring you pain of some kind, in variable degrees. She should be treated like what she is--- a low-life unworthy of telling her the time of day.
> 
> YOU thought the marriage was great. SHE never appreciated what you had to offer, hence the betrayal. Remember that if she comes into your life again, with a slime trail behind her. She placed no value whatsoever on your love, your loyalty, your hard work, your companionship. Place the EXACT same value on her, now that she has excluded you from her life.
> I am certain you are going to meet someone better. It won't be difficult....
> Sorry man...


You nailed it man. I think that's why everyone is so blindsided. I had one friend say "I guess she hated taking vacations all the time, being financial secure, having a loyal loving husband who was fun, no problems in the marriage and little conflict and a husband who liked hanging out with her." She clearly doesn't appreciate how rare it is what we had. What makes me angry is she never voiced any complaints or asked me to do anything better. Just sat there and wanted to chase feelings.


----------



## Evinrude58

She's just in for a very abrupt awakening. Her other friends know how difficult it is to find a decent man. You can bet this affair partner, by definition, has none of the character traits you possess. She will be standing with a dropped jaw when the new wears off and he starts showing her how he really is and how much he values himself over her. And he will see the same from her.

It would be nice to be a fly on the wall when it all hits the fan. She will likely call you up out if "friendship" and tell you all about how the AP screwed her over and wasn't who she thought he was and how foolish she was to let you go. I'd listen to all of it, then tell her that you agree it was foolish, and hang up the phone and block her


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> You nailed it man. I think that's why everyone is so blindsided. I had one friend say "I guess she hated taking vacations all the time, being financial secure, having a loyal loving husband who was fun, no problems in the marriage and little conflict and a husband who liked hanging out with her." She clearly doesn't appreciate how rare it is what we had. What makes me angry is she never voiced any complaints or asked me to do anything better. Just sat there and wanted to chase feelings.


Dude, your wife has serous emotional problems. Stop trying to figure it out and ruminating on it. See it like she died of cancer or something. The women is nuts. Accept it. You were happy but it was a facade, it was never going to last. Again she is not emotionally equipped to do that. Quit trying to understand crazy. That's how YOU become crazy. You were doing better in the beginning of this thread.

Just cause you ex-wife was a lemon doesn't mean all women are. There are good times ahead for you. Let it go, start to get excited about your future. You know maybe it's going to be even better!


----------



## sokillme

Evinrude58 said:


> She's just in for a very abrupt awakening.


She had a very short shelf life.

She is enamored with new. That is what does it for her. New shallow relationships. A bad person to try to have a long term relationship with.


----------



## Clemson

sokillme said:


> Dude, your wife has serous emotional problems. Stop trying to figure it out and ruminating on it. See it like she died of cancer or something. The women is nuts. Accept it. You were happy but it was a facade, it was never going to last. Again she is not emotionally equipped to do that. Quit trying to understand crazy. That's how YOU become crazy. You were doing better in the beginning of this thread.
> 
> Just cause you ex-wife was a lemon doesn't mean all women are. There are good times ahead for you. Let it go, start to get excited about your future. You know maybe it's going to be even better!


I hear you. We have had more interaction the last week as we wrap up some final things for the divorce. For example, she has had 2 realtors appraise the value of our house and because she still doesn't like the number, she is having it appraised Friday by an appraiser. I get about 5 texts or emails a day about this crap. So ready to be done with her. You guys have made some great points. I do appreciate your thoughts. I've lost 27 pounds since Thanksgiving and am in fantastic shape. I am so busy I don't know how I ever fit a wife in my life. I've got about 5 women that people want to set me up with once this divorce is final. I have had so much fun being single. I do better when I don't hear from her. The end is near.


----------



## Evinrude58

Yes, not hearing from her will be freaking awesome. You will come to her pe for silence.
I literally dread texts or calls from my ex now. Two years ago I stared at my phone hoping.

Time will fix this for yoU. Time is going through be a predator for her.


----------



## turnera

I wish I'd found this a month ago. Here's what happened. Your wife grew up insecure, mousy, sheltered, repressed, unattractive...one of the losers in life. Try to remember that while a man's self image can be carved out by your actions (strong, athletic, charismatic), females KNOW that 75% of their 'chances' with men are based on looks. Which they have little control over. You said it yourself: she wasn't attractive until college, you met/married around 23, right after she finished college (i.e. being busy studying vs. living life). 

So basically, she was just experiencing 'life' as she was hoping it would be, when she tied herself to your star. 

In other words, she never got to be an adult. And the little time she WAS an adult, she did what most young women do: look for an older man to replace her father (give her stability, provide safety), so it's safe to start 'playing at' being an adult.

Many many women do this: for their FIRST boyfriend. And then they get older and start outgrowing that protective father figure as they stop needing the protection.

Unfortunately, you just got caught up in it. She followed a typical path for backward, repressed females.


----------



## Clemson

turnera said:


> I wish I'd found this a month ago. Here's what happened. Your wife grew up insecure, mousy, sheltered, repressed, unattractive...one of the losers in life. Try to remember that while a man's self image can be carved out by your actions (strong, athletic, charismatic), females KNOW that 75% of their 'chances' with men are based on looks. Which they have little control over. You said it yourself: she wasn't attractive until college, you met/married around 23, right after she finished college (i.e. being busy studying vs. living life).
> 
> So basically, she was just experiencing 'life' as she was hoping it would be, when she tied herself to your star.
> 
> In other words, she never got to be an adult. And the little time she WAS an adult, she did what most young women do: look for an older man to replace her father (give her stability, provide safety), so it's safe to start 'playing at' being an adult.
> 
> Many many women do this: for their FIRST boyfriend. And then they get older and start outgrowing that protective father figure as they stop needing the protection.
> 
> Unfortunately, you just got caught up in it. She followed a typical path for backward, repressed females.


You nailed it. I knew none of this back then obviously. She dated one guy all through college who hung out with his friends constantly. She would either hang out with her boyfriend and his crew or she stayed home. He cheated on her and she hung around loyally. Then she just dropped the guy like a sack of potatoes shortly after getting her first job. We met about 2-3 months later at work. The rest basically played out as you say ...


----------



## Marc878

As painful as it is you got off extremely lucky. You can't quite see this yet but in a year or two you'll be sweating bullets at the could've been worse scenario.

Nice job on moving quickly and not trying to hang onto this loser.


----------



## bandit.45

You need a motorcycle.


----------



## Evinrude58

He needs a sports car--an obnoxious, fast, eye-catchy one. 

And a boat.

And lots of beautiful, bikini/clad women in both. Enjoy the single life for a while.


----------



## Evinrude58

He needs a sports car--an obnoxious, fast, eye-catchy one. 

And a boat.

And lots of beautiful, bikini/clad women in both. Enjoy the single life for a while.


----------



## Marc878

Evinrude58 said:


> He needs a sports car--an obnoxious, fast, eye-catchy one.
> 
> And a boat.
> 
> And lots of beautiful, bikini/clad women in both. Enjoy the single life for a while.


Id recommend a jaguar convertible >


----------



## Clemson

Marc878 said:


> Id recommend a jaguar convertible >


Bought a Range Rover in February knowing the end was near. I love that we all think the same way!


----------



## sokillme

How about this!

0-60 in (2.3 SECONDS)


----------



## arobk

bandit.45 said:


> You need a motorcycle.


 :smile2:

This is the correct answer for everyone.


----------



## rockon

sokillme said:


> How about this!
> 
> 0-60 in (2.3 SECONDS)


I would give up breathing for that beauty!!


----------



## sokillme

rockon said:


> I would give up breathing for that beauty!!


No list price yet as far as I know.


----------



## threelittlestars

Range rovers are hawt. I had one growing up. Good choice. Jag would be good too, provided its older than 1989. I like me a true jag.


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## goingsolo12

@Clemson

I am happy for you that you are finally getting out of this mess, welcome to the single life :grin2:

You deserve better and believe me your time is just starting, a lot of good stuff will happen to you as you focus on yourself and your happiness.

All the best and enjoy your life


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

I always liked the Jag in Harold and Maude:


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Clemson said:


> Bought a Range Rover in February knowing the end was near. I love that we all think the same way!



Get you a good Cadillac Escalade loaded. I had a Range Rover.....mechanics retirement plan. I spent too much time going to Nashville to get it worked on.:surprise::surprise:


----------



## sunshinie

Clemson said:


> I found this board and thought I would start a thread to see if I can get thoughts from others. My Wife is probably too far gone.
> 
> Little background on marriage. My Wife and I had a great Marriage and wonderful life. We met when she was 23 and I was 32. Wife is an old soul who likes to sew and cook and comes from a great family where church and family are the focus. She was a late bloomer and really didn't become attractive until college. She is the youngest of 3 daughters. Wife was sweet, loving, loyal and very attractive - perfect wife material. Wife and I were married in 2010 after dating for 3 years. Wife dated one guy all through college before breaking up with him and then meeting me. From the beginning, she was obsessed with me and would not even go out with her friends unless I came too.
> 
> We spent all our time together and genuinely loved being with each other. Without a doubt, we were each other’s best friends. Wife was definitely co-dependent on me and I was with her to some extent. I am an attorney and Wife works in insurance and we have no kids so we traveled extensively and generally lived a fun life. My wife complained about very little and never voiced any problems in our marriage. Wife always seemed happy and we almost never fought.
> 
> In April 2016, I started a new law firm which began taking up a lot of my time. Wife also started a new job that required her to travel. We seemed to be acclimating fine to this different/stressful time in our lives. I was working particularly long hours in September and October.
> 
> In November 2016, I come home from work to find Wife crying on our couch. Wife says she met a male co-worker and they had an affair during 3 week-long business trips (which happened during the period of my birthday and our anniversary). Apparently they really connected and had great passion. Wife says she was lonely and didn't know she was unhappy until she met OM. OM is 35 years old and married with three small children and lives in another state 1000 miles away. I was devastated and never suspected A. Wife tells me she loves me and chooses me over the OM. Wife has deep feelings for OM. Wife sends a no contact text to OM the next day and shows it to me. Wife seemed genuinely remorseful. Wife's two sisters tell me they too had no idea she was in trouble despite talking to her almost everyday. Her entire family is saddened by Wife's actions.
> 
> Two weeks later we are boarding a plane for a previously scheduled trip. I look over and see Wife texting OM and I almost have a panic attack. OM has told his wife of the affair but can’t stop thinking of my wife. My wife says OM reached out to her the night before and said “thinking of you”. Wife apologizes and I take her phone and text OM to never contact my wife or I will tell their employer about what is going on. We then start couples counseling. Wife tells counselor she wants to make our Marriage work.
> 
> Another two weeks later though, my wife gives me the ILYBNILWY line. I’m stunned. When I challenge her that she barely knows OM she says she's known him "101 days" like a teenager. I'm really concerned I'm losing her. But over the remainder of December, things are actually pretty good as we work on us. On New Year's Eve, we are at a party and Wife says she is thinking of OM. I lose it and tell her I'm done with the marriage.
> 
> The next day, Wife is sobbing and tells me she can't live without me, she wishes A never happened and she will quit her job if it means she keeps me. In late January 2017, we go out of town and one night Wife breaks down crying and says she can't get over OM. My heart is broken.
> 
> Once back home, Wife tells me she wants to separate so she can have time to think. I tell Wife we can do in-home separation on one condition: that she not contact OM. Wife refuses and I make her leave our home. Two days later Wife contacts OM and finds out he has been kicked out of his house by his wife and lives with his brother now. OM is interested in continuing the A. On February 12, I meet WW and she tells me she is choosing OM over me. Wife says she missed me at first but when she found out OM wasn't with his wife, the separation was easier. I kick Wife out of our house and immediately filed for D. I won't be plan b option.
> 
> Since then, I have gone no contact (I also gave up pursuing several weeks earlier). Wife comes by every Sunday to get clothes for work week and to talk about finances/divorce and while she is home she asks how my week has been, etc like nothing is wrong. I can't believe this is the same wife who would eagerly wait for me to come home every day just 6-8 months ago.
> 
> Wife wants to move where OM lives even though she has never been to that state, knows no one but OM there, has never lived outside our city, might lose her job and would be leaving all friends and family.
> 
> Wife's entire family is against her decision and has helped me through this. They think my Wife is lost and didn't give our M a chance. I did not ask for their help but they desperately want our M to work. Personal friends have called asking if she has a brain tumor because this is not the person they know. This A has almost zero chance of working and there is literally no one encouraging Wife to leave other than OM. Yet here we are. Everyone I tell is stunned that Wife would have an A. It was so out of character for her. She is so distant and uncaring now. We have been together over 9 years and it's like it meant nothing. For someone so obsessed with me, I can't believe our lack of communication doesn't bother her at some level.
> 
> Looking back, I can't believe I have put up with all this over the past 3 months. I foresee my Wife returning in the future but I don't know if I would even want her back. Filing for divorce did not snap her out of it. I have lost 20 lbs and am in the best shape I've been in 15 years. Anything else I should be doing? Any words of encouragement? I'd be lying if I said I don't miss her everyday still.


----------



## sunshinie

Maybe your wife wanted you to be more aggressive in fighting for her after she confessed the affair. If she was person that did everything with you and that suddenly changed it meant she felt neglected and immaturely looked for it in someone else arms. You sound like you want your wife and that filing for a divorce was just for the sole purpose of "snapping her out of it". If you want your wife go get her. Bang on the other man's door, punch him and tell him to don't come near your wife again. Look her straight in the eye and tell her "get your s**t, we are going home. Homage to every bad boy romance i have ever read. 

Get some bail money just in case. She wants back as much as you want her, that is why she keeps coming around. She wants you to aggressively fight for her and your marriage.


----------



## Andy1001

sunshinie said:


> Maybe your wife wanted you to be more aggressive in fighting for her after she confessed the affair. If she was person that did everything with you and that suddenly changed it meant she felt neglected and immaturely looked for it in someone else arms. You sound like you want your wife and that filing for a divorce was just for the sole purpose of "snapping her out of it". If you want your wife go get her. Bang on the other man's door, punch him and tell him to don't come near your wife again. Look her straight in the eye and tell her "get your s**t, we are going home. Homage to every bad boy romance i have ever read.
> 
> Get some bail money just in case. She wants back as much as you want her, that is why she keeps coming around. She wants you to aggressively fight for her and your marriage.


You keep taking the pills dude,I'm sure you will get better.


----------



## Evinrude58

sunshinie said:


> Maybe your wife wanted you to be more aggressive in fighting for her after she confessed the affair. If she was person that did everything with you and that suddenly changed it meant she felt neglected and immaturely looked for it in someone else arms. You sound like you want your wife and that filing for a divorce was just for the sole purpose of "snapping her out of it". If you want your wife go get her. Bang on the other man's door, punch him and tell him to don't come near your wife again. Look her straight in the eye and tell her "get your s**t, we are going home. Homage to every bad boy romance i have ever read.
> 
> Get some bail money just in case. She wants back as much as you want her, that is why she keeps coming around. She wants you to aggressively fight for her and your marriage.


So you're suggesting he go get his WIFE from another dude's house that is banging her, by punching him in the mouth and telling her to get her ****?

Result: 1)he's shot dead by the other man-- not very good for the long term.
2) she laughs in his face while coddling the other man while she dials the cops on her cell. Not great for his law career.
3) OM beats the hell out of Clemson, while wife looks on with repulsion.
4) Clem beats OM's ass, his wife follows him to the car with her stuff, and he's won back his cheating **** of a wife.
5) Clem gets thrown in jail for assault.

I could go on...... but this already just seems like an idea that is not well thought out.


----------



## bandit.45

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Get you a good Cadillac Escalade loaded. I had a Range Rover.....mechanics retirement plan. I spent too much time going to Nashville to get it worked on.:surprise::surprise:


I have a friend who owns a Disco. I tell him to never park that piece of crap in front of my house. I don't want the neighbors thinking it's mine. And he's Aussie. Oh it pisses him off when I say that. &#55358;&#56611;


----------



## giddiot

rockon said:


> I would give up breathing for that beauty!!




I have an RT and it scares the crap out of me, I cannot imagine driving one of these.


----------



## Marc878

sunshinie said:


> Maybe your wife wanted you to be more aggressive in fighting for her after she confessed the affair. If she was person that did everything with you and that suddenly changed it meant she felt neglected and immaturely looked for it in someone else arms. You sound like you want your wife and that filing for a divorce was just for the sole purpose of "snapping her out of it". If you want your wife go get her. Bang on the other man's door, punch him and tell him to don't come near your wife again. Look her straight in the eye and tell her "get your s**t, we are going home. Homage to every bad boy romance i have ever read.
> 
> Get some bail money just in case. She wants back as much as you want her, that is why she keeps coming around. She wants you to aggressively fight for her and your marriage.


Why would anyone fight for a wife who's willingly spreading for someone else? The fight should be to get her gone as fast as possible.


----------



## Marc878

Jag

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/attachments/ladies-lounge/48777d1475932842-men-cars-image.jpeg


----------



## TDSC60

Why would anyone fight to get a cheating, lying, immoral, untrustworthy, unreliable spouse to come back to him?

Why fight for something not worth having in the first place?


----------



## sunshinie

Marc878 said:


> Why would anyone fight for a wife who's willingly spreading for someone else? The fight should be to get her gone as fast as possible.



You fight for things you want and would have invested in. Did you read his post. He didn't sound like a guy who wants to lose his wife. Some marriages are ****ty, but hey! All stories to tell the grand kids. We went through the fire and we are still together. Not every mistake or heartbreak in a marriage have to end in divorce. We are a people that give up too easily. Throw the old toy in the bin and get a new shiny one. Successful relationships are not void of trials, what makes the difference is how handle them, in a marriage that handling is TOGETHER. 

We got his side of the ,what about hers? Did she spend her nights lonely and crying for him? Did she beg him to stay home with her? Did the OM selfishly preyed on her vulnerabilities and wormed his way in. You heard him, she was never like that before he started spending more time away from her. He also said she was very codependent on him and "OBSESSED". What happens when the thing you are obsessed about feels like it no longer wants you.


----------



## gettingthruthis

I would like to interject if I may. what people are telling you is exactly what I need to hear, I am in the same boat and it has been very hard most days however if I keep coming here and seeing that I will survive this setback it helps me to move on kicking and screaming like a little baby but still moving on as I should, sometimes I do have that glimmer of hope that she will come back (actually a lot of times) I myself have been looking up words and learning their meanings such as words like integrity and dignity, serenity, self-control, self-discipline, equanimity, cool and imperturbable the best one of all, look them up and learn what they mean to you, it will help.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Ah yes, the "it is your fault you didn't fight" scenario mixed with the "we only heard one side."

Funny, zero cheating and there would be less turmoil concerning reconciliation. Funny how this works male or female. Yes, even if they divorce, separate, date and come back together. 

The easiest way to a spouse's heart or reconciliation is to cheat, then move out, screw other people, send mixed signals, keep screwing other people and then wait for them to fight for you.

Nope, sorry, not for me and hopefully not for Clemson. Funny thing is, you are ignoring the simplest reason, problems in her new relationship might be why she keeps coming around or regret. None of the reasons explain why she keeps screwing the OM. So, what he might be seeing is her true colors. When things don't go her way she looks for an easy out.


----------



## bandit.45

sunshinie said:


> You fight for things you want and would have invested in. Did you read his post. He didn't sound like a guy who wants to lose his wife. Some marriages are ****ty, but hey! All stories to tell the grand kids. We went through the fire and we are still together. Not every mistake or heartbreak in a marriage have to end in divorce. We are a people that give up too easily. Throw the old toy in the bin and get a new shiny one. Successful relationships are not void of trials, what makes the difference is how handle them, in a marriage that handling is TOGETHER.
> 
> We got his side of the ,what about hers? Did she spend her nights lonely and crying for him? Did she beg him to stay home with her? Did the OM selfishly preyed on her vulnerabilities and wormed his way in. You heard him, she was never like that before he started spending more time away from her. He also said she was very codependent on him and "OBSESSED". What happens when the thing you are obsessed about feels like it no longer wants you.


Life throws curves. Sometimes it takes us away from our spouses for legitimate reasons. The spouse who stays at home is obliged to put up with the distance and lonliness. That's what it means to be in a committed marriage. 

If we follow your argument, then it is perfectly okay for military wives to sleep with other men while their soldier husbands are away for months and even years of deployment. 

If you cannot stand being alone or having your spouse away from you for extended periods, then you kindly remove yourself from the relationship. You don't cheat.


----------



## Evinrude58

The more I read, the more I see in real life, the more I grow.......

I am realizing that there is basically zero chance of being truly happy by reconciling with a cheater.

Peace if mind is never possible again. If someone says it is, they're delusional.

The cheating spouse has already shown they are willing and capable. When will the next "vulnerability" situation occur?


----------



## Marc878

sunshinie said:


> You fight for things you want and would have invested in. Did you read his post. He didn't sound like a guy who wants to lose his wife. Some marriages are ****ty, but hey! All stories to tell the grand kids. We went through the fire and we are still together. Not every mistake or heartbreak in a marriage have to end in divorce. We are a people that give up too easily. Throw the old toy in the bin and get a new shiny one. Successful relationships are not void of trials, what makes the difference is how handle them, in a marriage that handling is TOGETHER.
> 
> We got his side of the ,what about hers? Did she spend her nights lonely and crying for him? Did she beg him to stay home with her? Did the OM selfishly preyed on her vulnerabilities and wormed his way in. You heard him, she was never like that before he started spending more time away from her. He also said she was very codependent on him and "OBSESSED". What happens when the thing you are obsessed about feels like it no longer wants you.


Yawn


----------



## CantBelieveThis

Evinrude58 said:


> The more I read, the more I see in real life, the more I grow.......
> 
> I am realizing that there is basically zero chance of being truly happy by reconciling with a cheater.
> 
> Peace if mind is never possible again. If someone says it is, *they're delusional.*
> 
> The cheating spouse has already shown they are willing and capable. When will the next "vulnerability" situation occur?


well in that case I better make a doc appt asap on Monday!!!......boy the B/W thinking is all over TAM lately, support for BS attempting R is dwindling very fast!!! (even thou is clear this isnt really an R friendly spot), oh well....is an open internet forum, whatcha gonna do....


----------



## Clemson

sunshinie said:


> Maybe your wife wanted you to be more aggressive in fighting for her after she confessed the affair. If she was person that did everything with you and that suddenly changed it meant she felt neglected and immaturely looked for it in someone else arms. You sound like you want your wife and that filing for a divorce was just for the sole purpose of "snapping her out of it". If you want your wife go get her. Bang on the other man's door, punch him and tell him to don't come near your wife again. Look her straight in the eye and tell her "get your s**t, we are going home. Homage to every bad boy romance i have ever read.
> 
> Get some bail money just in case. She wants back as much as you want her, that is why she keeps coming around. She wants you to aggressively fight for her and your marriage.


I think I did everything I could to save my marriage. We went on two vacations, we spent time together, I did things she said I failed to do in our marriage and I attacked their relationship verbally and exposed it to her family who also railed against it. My wife is just in love with OM and not me. She doesn't know the difference between lust and love. 

OM lives 1000 miles away so I'm not flying there just to confront him and I'm not going to risk losing my law license and livelihood over that. If the only way my wife would stay with me is if I got in a fistfight with her boyfriend than I don't want her. Besides, I think she would say I'm being mean to him.


----------



## Clemson

sunshinie said:


> You fight for things you want and would have invested in. Did you read his post. He didn't sound like a guy who wants to lose his wife. Some marriages are ****ty, but hey! All stories to tell the grand kids. We went through the fire and we are still together. Not every mistake or heartbreak in a marriage have to end in divorce. We are a people that give up too easily. Throw the old toy in the bin and get a new shiny one. Successful relationships are not void of trials, what makes the difference is how handle them, in a marriage that handling is TOGETHER.
> 
> We got his side of the ,what about hers? Did she spend her nights lonely and crying for him? Did she beg him to stay home with her? Did the OM selfishly preyed on her vulnerabilities and wormed his way in. You heard him, she was never like that before he started spending more time away from her. He also said she was very codependent on him and "OBSESSED". What happens when the thing you are obsessed about feels like it no longer wants you.


I didn't want to lose my wife but it wasn't my choice. She picked the other guy. She was going to file divorce if I didn't. In fact, when I filed divorce, she was on a sex romp trip with the OM in Seattle. Saving the marriage isn't an option because she doesn't want it. I don't think I gave up too easily. For three months I tried to work on it. All the while she thinks of the guy and refuses to work on our marriage. She told me she wants to end the marriage - not me.

Even when I was busy with work for just two months, I saw my wife every night and came home for dinner. I had just started a new business. If I can't be away from her for that little time then how committed was she? I am a good husband and I enjoyed spending time with my wife. In fact, she was my best friend and I hung out with her over my own friends. We were very close. I don't think she even knows what happened.


----------



## Clemson

sunshinie said:


> You fight for things you want and would have invested in. Did you read his post. He didn't sound like a guy who wants to lose his wife. Some marriages are ****ty, but hey! All stories to tell the grand kids. We went through the fire and we are still together. Not every mistake or heartbreak in a marriage have to end in divorce. We are a people that give up too easily. Throw the old toy in the bin and get a new shiny one. Successful relationships are not void of trials, what makes the difference is how handle them, in a marriage that handling is TOGETHER.
> 
> We got his side of the ,what about hers? Did she spend her nights lonely and crying for him? Did she beg him to stay home with her? Did the OM selfishly preyed on her vulnerabilities and wormed his way in. You heard him, she was never like that before he started spending more time away from her. He also said she was very codependent on him and "OBSESSED". What happens when the thing you are obsessed about feels like it no longer wants you.





gettingthruthis said:


> I would like to interject if I may. what people are telling you is exactly what I need to hear, I am in the same boat and it has been very hard most days however if I keep coming here and seeing that I will survive this setback it helps me to move on kicking and screaming like a little baby but still moving on as I should, sometimes I do have that glimmer of hope that she will come back (actually a lot of times) I myself have been looking up words and learning their meanings such as words like integrity and dignity, serenity, self-control, self-discipline, equanimity, cool and imperturbable the best one of all, look them up and learn what they mean to you, it will help.


I used to have hope she would come back but I don't anymore. I do want the pain to stop and it is getting better but I get lonely sometimes and miss the life I had. I was genuinely a happily married man and thought we would never be apart. I've had some great times recently but I do miss the companionship we had. This board has been very helpful to share my story and hear what others have done on the same path.


----------



## frusdil

bandit.45 said:


> Life throws curves. Sometimes it takes us away from our spouses for legitimate reasons. The spouse who stays at home is obliged to put up with the distance and lonliness. That's what it means to be in a committed marriage.
> 
> If we follow your argument, then it is perfectly okay for military wives to sleep with other men while their soldier husbands are away for months and even years of deployment.
> 
> If you cannot stand being alone or having your spouse away from you for extended periods, then you kindly remove yourself from the relationship. You don't cheat.


^^This. So much this.



Evinrude58 said:


> I am realizing that there is basically zero chance of being truly happy by reconciling with a cheater.


I don't there is really...I don't think I could ever get over such a betrayal. 

OP, I'm so very sorry that you're going through this. I know it feels like the pain will never end now, but it will...this too shall pass. You'll feel so much lighter when it's all final, and you can work through your grief and move forward with your life.

Good things are coming for you!


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> I used to have hope she would come back but I don't anymore. I do want the pain to stop and it is getting better but I get lonely sometimes and miss the life I had. I was genuinely a happily married man and thought we would never be apart. I've had some great times recently but I do miss the companionship we had. This board has been very helpful to share my story and hear what others have done on the same path.


For all we know your wife is bipolar. Don't let one poster get you to start worrying about what happened. You're right you did everything you could. It's OK to be sad but I want to present an idea for you to think and meditate on. *You most likely will have a better life without her.* How good can she be if she does this to you? To have a good marriage you needs someone with boundaries and loyalty. When it comes to her nada. This was going to happen eventually. Imagine if it happened when you were 60? 

Again it's OK to be sad, but you must MUST also have hope. You will feel joy again. Genuinely joy, I guarantee it. And when you do, you come back on here and you tell others who are going through what you are going through now just that, just like telling you now.

I remember feeling like this sadness is going to be my pain forever. I will never love anyone as much as I loved the cheater. I was absolutely wrong. I feel nothing, NOTHING for the person who cheated on me, except maybe gratitude.


----------



## Clemson

sokillme said:


> For all we know your wife is bipolar. Don't let one poster get you to start worrying about what happened. You're right you did everything you could. It's OK to be sad but I want to present an idea for you to think and meditate on. *You most likely will have a better life without her.* How good can she be if she does this to you? To have a good marriage you needs someone with boundaries and loyalty. When it comes to her nada. This was going to happen eventually. Imagine if it happened when you were 60?
> 
> Again it's OK to be sad, but you must MUST also have hope. You will feel joy again. Genuinely joy, I guarantee it. And when you do, you come back on here and you tell others who are going through what you are going through now just that, just like telling you now.
> 
> I remember feeling like this sadness is going to be my pain forever. I will never love anyone as much as I loved the cheater. I was absolutely wrong. I feel nothing, NOTHING for the person who cheated on me, except maybe gratitude.


Thanks for your thoughts. I agree. My sadness is not that I want her back, its just that this sucks and I hate that it happened. At times, I find myself saying her loss and good riddance. She's the one who is going to have the terrible life. But I was happy and never wanted anything more in life than what I had. My life was perfect. I had a beautiful wife who I thought loved me, financial security, a nice home, travel and friends. I want to forget our life. I have hope for the future and am genuinely excited. I'm in a better spot than most betrayed spouses since I am very outgoing and have lots of friends looking out for me. Believe me, I view her as a ticking bomb now and I'm glad I escaped now and wasn't 10 years down the road with kids. And I don't want someone who would do this to me. She has been very mean and selfish. I think only time and new experiences will get me to where you are. And I plan on returning to this board and sharing my journey.


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## Marc878

Your feelings are normal mainly because you are stepping into the unknown and unfamiliar territory. Even though in the long term you'll come out better (and you will) it causes high anxiety.

What you aren't seeing is this was a time bomb waiting to go off. No kids not married long if it was to happen now was the best time.

Hard to see because you are on the receiving end of this right now and it's raw.

Time and no contact will fix that


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. I agree. My sadness is not that I want her back, its just that this sucks and I hate that it happened. At times, I find myself saying her loss and good riddance. She's the one who is going to have the terrible life. But I was happy and never wanted anything more in life than what I had. My life was perfect. I had a beautiful wife who I thought loved me, financial security, a nice home, travel and friends. I want to forget our life. I have hope for the future and am genuinely excited. I'm in a better spot than most betrayed spouses since I am very outgoing and have lots of friends looking out for me. Believe me, I view her as a ticking bomb now and I'm glad I escaped now and wasn't 10 years down the road with kids. And I don't want someone who would do this to me. She has been very mean and selfish. I think only time and new experiences will get me to where you are. And I plan on returning to this board and sharing my journey.


Remember there was never going to be anything better. You got the best out of her, this is it, there is no more. She wasn't capable of anything more. This was always going to happen at some point. She is not made to be happily ever after. You don't see it now but 30 years from now you will see she will have strings of short relationships. Trust me. She will remember you fondly and think how stupid she was and how different her life would have been. Some things are not meant to be forever, your marriage was one of them.


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## hylton7

this is her true self gald you didn't have kids with her wish you luck in the future


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## sunshinie

bandit.45 said:


> Life throws curves. Sometimes it takes us away from our spouses for legitimate reasons. The spouse who stays at home is obliged to put up with the distance and lonliness. That's what it means to be in a committed marriage.
> 
> If we follow your argument, then it is perfectly okay for military wives to sleep with other men while their soldier husbands are away for months and even years of deployment.
> 
> If you cannot stand being alone or having your spouse away from you for extended periods, then you kindly remove yourself from the relationship. You don't cheat.


This is not an issue of setting a standard for if cheating is ever okay. Because it never is. But every situation is different. My own mother forgave my father for an affair he had. And they are still together today and have a solid relationship. And this is a woman that was not only confronted by the other woman but often times verbally abused. But she said she stuck in there because she had made her vows and was gonna stick to it. She explained that she went through many shades of angry and hurt. She said it took many years to trust him again, today she does again. And almost 40 years of marriage. They have had really bad times and really good ones. That's what you commit to when you decide to get married. It is not about the butterflies and how you good that person makes you feel all the time. Some days you get messy and dirty and torn, but you fight. If this dude wants to leave his wife, that's his prerogative but for either of us to sit behind our keyboards and call his wife nasty names and tell him to leave her, (when obviously wants her back) is absolutely a terrible thing to do. There are cheaters who cheated once and are truly repentant and others who are belligerent in their ways. He has to decipher which his wife is, and from the limited information he has given she appeared to be a good person who did a really ****ty thing. Any issue can be resolved, it only takes forgiveness.


----------



## azteca1986

sunshinie said:


> Any issue can be resolved, it only takes forgiveness.


The tiny fly in the ointment of your theory is that OP's STBXWW has chosen to leave the marriage to take up with her boyfriend. No point flogging this dead horse. It's done. 

OP loses his marriage but gets to keep his dignity.


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## Evinrude58

sunshinie said:


> This is not an issue of setting a standard for if cheating is ever okay. Because it never is. But every situation is different. My own mother forgave my father for an affair he had. And they are still together today and have a solid relationship. And this is a woman that was not only confronted by the other woman but often times verbally abused. But she said she stuck in there because she had made her vows and was gonna stick to it. She explained that she went through many shades of angry and hurt. She said it took many years to trust him again, today she does again. And almost 40 years of marriage. They have had really bad times and really good ones. That's what you commit to when you decide to get married. It is not about the butterflies and how you good that person makes you feel all the time. Some days you get messy and dirty and torn, but you fight. If this dude wants to leave his wife, that's his prerogative but for either of us to sit behind our keyboards and call his wife nasty names and tell him to leave her, (when obviously wants her back) is absolutely a terrible thing to do. There are cheaters who cheated once and are truly repentant and others who are belligerent in their ways. *He has to decipher which his wife is, and from the limited information he has given she appeared to be a good person who did a really ****ty thing. Any issue can be resolved, it only takes forgiveness*.


He doesn't have to decipher anything. Her character is being displayed in technicolor for anyone who is willing to open their eyes and look. And forgiveness he is likely already at the point of giving her. Resolving the situation here is not possible because she DOES NOT WANT CLEMSON. SHE WANTS THE OTHER MAN!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kerf

Clemson already gave her a chance at reconciliation once.She couldn't get over her lover and she has shown no signs of having any real feelings for Clemson left.


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## bandit.45

I don't think she's an evil woman. I think she is a morally bankrupt woman who is confused and obviously has a shallow sense of love and responsibility. 

I'm of the mind not to tell Clemson to get his hopes up that he will be happy again one day. Call me a buzzkill, but life doesn't work that way. Happiness is really nothing more than a series of far divided oases in a desert of humdrum. You come upon short periods of bliss and you milk them and enjoy them for all their worth, because soon it will be time to cross the desert again. Most of us are wandering the desert between the happy oases, and most of us are used to this and can handle the day to day monotony that is life. But some, like Clemson's wife can't handle the desert, so she jumps off her camel and goes running to another guy who's heading the opposite direction, thinking he will lead her to the land flowing with milk and honey. Except that land doesn't exist. 

Clemson do your your best. Live hard and smart and carve your destiny. But don't hang on to the past and don't wait for karma to hit your WW. She may well go on to live a very happy life and even have a successsful marriage with the guy. But at the end of the road, only one of you can look back and say you lived a life of integrity. She will never be able to say that.


----------



## Evinrude58

bandit.45 said:


> I don't think she's an evil woman. I think she is a morally bankrupt woman who is confused and obviously has a shallow sense of love and responsibility.
> 
> I'm of the mind not to tell Clemson to get his hopes up that he will be happy again one day. Call me a buzzkill, but life doesn't work that way. Happiness is really nothing more than a series of far divided oases in a desert of humdrum. You come upon short periods of bliss and you milk them and enjoy them for all their worth, because soon it will be time to cross the desert again. Most of us are wandering the desert between the happy oases, and most of us are used to this and can handle the day to day monotony that is life. But some, like Clemson's wife can't handle the desert, so she jumps off her camel and goes running to another guy who's heading the opposite direction, thinking he will lead her to the land flowing with milk and honey. Except that land doesn't exist.
> 
> Clemson do your your best. Live hard and smart and carve your destiny. But don't hang on to the past and don't wait for karma to hit your WW. She may well go on to live a very happy life and even have a successsful marriage with the guy. But at the end of the road, only one of you can look back and say you lived a life of integrity. She will never be able to say that.


I agree with a lot of this, but not for clenson. He didn't wait around pining forever for his cheater to come home. He manned up fast, accepted this, and is moving on. He was happy before, he will find happ happiness again. For sure because I can tell he is the kind of guy that can be happy with or without a wife.
But he's a young, childless, successful guy with lots of friends. There will be plenty of women for him to be with. All he has to do is pick a good one.

I think he's in a great spot in life. He gets another chance while still young to use a wiser picker to find an exceptional woman of character.
Life is good Clenson! Enjoy it!


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## Joyfull

"When is the divorce final?
May 2. Can't come soon enough. "

So, @Clemson, how are you? Is it over?


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## Clemson

Update: divorce became final yesterday. Expected it to be more emotional than it was. Actually felt little emotion. My ex wife was trying to keep it light hearted. She said I looked good, that my suit was probably the only one that fit me because I've lost 27 lbs., and she said my work bag has a tear in it and that I should get a new one. After the divorce was final, she asked if she could get a hug. I said I wasn't going to hug her back and she tried some awkward hug and then I said I was going to the bathroom so we didn't have to walk out together. I was very distant during the whole event and wasn't going to make nice. Surprisingly, despite the need for me to move money today, I did not hear from her all day except an email telling me I'm covered on her health insurance through the end of May. I really don't have any emotional response to the divorce being final since this has been the status in my mind for over a month. Decided to get on match.com last night and already have 30 likes from women. Kind of crazy. Thanks for everyone's thoughts throughout this nightmare. I'm in a good spot. Just sometimes can't believe this happened. People who haven't seen me in a while still ask me if we are pregnant yet. I tell them no and in fact we're divorced. Everyone is shocked and I tell them I am too so they have to be. I am looking forward to see what life has in store for me and will update as things unfold.


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## Joyfull

Thanks for the update. Believe that your BEST days are ahead of you. It's all in how you approach it and a good positive attitude. For me, after my divorce, I found me. Outside of the birth of my child during marriage, my absolute best days were my single days after divorce. My first husband was a cheater and walked away. The best thing he could have done to me was divorce me. I thank him for that. I learned my part in the divorce, I owed it and full on worked on becoming a better me. I've enjoyed the journey very much. 

So on to the new adventures and opportunities. Keep taking care of you. Don't be surprised if random emotions pop up. Just process them. Don't waddle in them at all and just believe that your best days are ahead of you because they are!!! Best wishes!!!


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Update: divorce became final yesterday. Expected it to be more emotional than it was. Actually felt little emotion. My ex wife was trying to keep it light hearted. She said I looked good, that my suit was probably the only one that fit me because I've lost 27 lbs., and she said my work bag has a tear in it and that I should get a new one. After the divorce was final, she asked if she could get a hug. I said I wasn't going to hug her back and she tried some awkward hug and then I said I was going to the bathroom so we didn't have to walk out together. I was very distant during the whole event and wasn't going to make nice. Surprisingly, despite the need for me to move money today, I did not hear from her all day except an email telling me I'm covered on her health insurance through the end of May. I really don't have any emotional response to the divorce being final since this has been the status in my mind for over a month. Decided to get on match.com last night and already have 30 likes from women. Kind of crazy. Thanks for everyone's thoughts throughout this nightmare. I'm in a good spot. Just sometimes can't believe this happened. People who haven't seen me in a while still ask me if we are pregnant yet. I tell them no and in fact we're divorced. Everyone is shocked and I tell them I am too so they have to be. I am looking forward to see what life has in store for me and will update as things unfold.


She hugs you. :crazy:

You find it over and over, many WS are just emotionally retarded. They just don't have the ability to emotional comprehend what they do. Up until the point they get married none of this comes to the forefront but marriage requires a higher level of emotional commitment and they are just in no way prepared to give that. They are just not capable. 

So many think they can stomp on your heart and still be best friends. The empathy meter is broken.


----------



## Clemson

I talked about all this with my sister and I think she makes a good point. My ex wife doesn't want to feel bad about what she's done. She likes hearing that I'm doing well and wants to be friends so she doesn't have to face how awful she is. I am not playing along.


----------



## GusPolinski

Clemson said:


> I talked about all this with my sister and I think she makes a good point. My ex wife doesn't want to feel bad about what she's done. She likes hearing that I'm doing well and wants to be friends so she doesn't have to face how awful she is. I am not playing along.


Yep. We see it all the time.

Basically it goes like this:

If she can convince you to be friends, then what she did to you can't have been all that bad, so she doesn't have to feel "that bad", "as bad", or even "bad" at all.

Essentially she's looking for ways to assuage her guilt.

To Hell with that.

Let her sit in her own stew.


----------



## Evinrude58

Wanted to hug you so she could get a reaction---- still trying to make sure old Clenson has feelings for her.
I'll bet she is still mulling over the lack of a hug.
Clem didn't hug me? What an ass!
He acts like I cheated or something..... wait, I did kinda do that........
But Clemson wasn't giving me enough x, y, and z and I tried to--- well, I was going to try before I met dilfohead. 
Anyway, Clem is just bitter.
I'm Happy. That's all that counts....


----------



## Marc878

Sorry man.

Now that it's over I'd block her on everything. Her family too. *This is for you.* This was painfull enough without having to relive it with contact.

Definition of friend = loyal, honest, trustworthy. She's not your friend. 

I suspect this will hit you hard emotionally at some point unless you've already gotten your grief out.

take care of yourself


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Clemson said:


> I talked about all this with my sister and I think she makes a good point. My ex wife doesn't want to feel bad about what she's done. She likes hearing that I'm doing well and wants to be friends so she doesn't have to face how awful she is. I am not playing along.





GusPolinski said:


> Yep. We see it all the time.
> 
> Basically it goes like this:
> 
> If she can convince you to be friends, then what she did to you can't have been all that bad, so she doesn't have to feel "that bad", "as bad", or even "bad" at all.
> 
> Essentially she's looking for ways to assuage her guilt.
> 
> To Hell with that.
> 
> Let her sit in her own stew.


Yep. She'll still be justifying and rationalizing even after she gets it through her skull that you aren't friends. If she can convince herself that "it was just meant to happen this way" and "see? it was all for the best" then she doesn't have to feel guilty about it.

F her. Go live a fantastic life with someone who appreciates you and forget all about her.


----------



## Marc878

Clemson,

You probably are guilty of leaving the commode seat up back in Jan of 2015.

That's very traumatic for a woman in the dark of night.


----------



## brooklynAnn

Good days ahead brother. Keep positive and have fun........


----------



## TDSC60

Take a couple of weeks off. Go somewhere you always wanted to go. Tell only your family where you are going and stay off social media.

You do not have to be in a relationship to be happy. Learn to live on your own before bringing another women into the picture. Don't rush it.


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## bandit.45

Clemson I'm happy for you! 

Now get out there and get laid!


----------



## jasoncampbell

Clemson said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. I agree. My sadness is not that I want her back, its just that this sucks and I hate that it happened. At times, I find myself saying her loss and good riddance. She's the one who is going to have the terrible life. But I was happy and never wanted anything more in life than what I had. My life was perfect. I had a beautiful wife who I thought loved me, financial security, a nice home, travel and friends. I want to forget our life. I have hope for the future and am genuinely excited. I'm in a better spot than most betrayed spouses since I am very outgoing and have lots of friends looking out for me. Believe me, I view her as a ticking bomb now and I'm glad I escaped now and wasn't 10 years down the road with kids. And I don't want someone who would do this to me. She has been very mean and selfish. I think only time and new experiences will get me to where you are. And I plan on returning to this board and sharing my journey.


Clemson,

Your story reminds me of a lot of what I've faced. I remember hearing all the advice, and cliche's about getting to a better place, moving on and finding happiness.. It's a process to heal. What's happened in your life is unfair and a shock... you strike me as a rather logical guy, and your words are wrapped up in formulating acceptance around the reality you're faced with. Right now that is to construct a comparison to how it was and how it'll be. Practicality is a comfort, but your emotions are reeling... so many. I remember the feeling of hopelessness, failure, anxiety... all the undertones that wouldn't let me let go of the circumstances and the "unfairness" of it all. I knew I wasn't at fault, and I knew I was a good guy... and I had to convince myself of that by explaining things to others.

One day I met someone who showed me that I didn't need to explain what had happened, and I didn't need to revisit it. This person showed me that when something breaks you, it contains you... it traps you. Its owns you. And only you have the power to let it go. This starts from accepting that you were not at fault, and that you don't need to even say so... because it is actually irrelevant, and counter to moving towards your own happiness. So you start to focus on yourself, and in that your confidence grows and you become all those things you rationalized, because that's you to your core. You stop saying who you are, and you start being that person. You start to look back and realize "life was perfect" wasn't entirely accurate. It was only good enough. But you get to a place where you really see what a good life is, and it's being with someone who respects and values you, without the need to question, ever, that loyalty.

I'm reminded of a quote that moved me the other day:
“There are two basic motivating forces: fear and love. When we are afraid, we pull back from life. When we are in love, we open to all that life has to offer with passion, excitement, and acceptance. We need to learn to love ourselves first, in all our glory and our imperfections. If we cannot love ourselves, we cannot fully open to our ability to love others or our potential to create. Evolution and all hopes for a better world rest in the fearlessness and open-hearted vision of people who embrace life.” - John Lennon.

Allow yourself to recognize your fears, and in that you'll resolve them much quicker... you sounds like an awesome guy. Keep your head up and you'll get past this sooner than you realize. You'll look back and be thankful she made it so easy for you to move on with your life. To love yourself first.

Better days ahead, I can promise you that. :smile2:


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Don't be surprised if you end up like SF-FAN, years down the line: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/163241-found-evidence-wife-having-affair-71.html


----------



## farsidejunky

Tatsuhiko said:


> Don't be surprised if you end up like SF-FAN, years down the line: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/163241-found-evidence-wife-having-affair-71.html


And he was particularly stubborn about letting his ww go.


----------



## Clemson

Lots of good encouragement here. Thanks. I really want to use this time to get to know myself better, get in the best shape of my life and just have fun. I have no desire to get into a new serious relationship right now. This was the first time in my life any woman cheated on me so I don't have any reference point. I know most women aren't like my ex-wife and I know I have a lot to offer women. My ex-wife's story and crazy decision to leave me for a man who has no quality that is better than me actually has made the process easier because it makes no sense to anyone. I will learn from the experience and do a little better in the couple areas I got lazy about next time around. I am looking forward to having fun and sampling all the great women out there. These last couple weeks have been some of the most fun times of my life even with all the divorce crap looming over my head. One great thing is that every woman I know thinks of me as the innocent victim in all this so I have major appeal for them to recommend me to their single friends.


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## TDSC60

Time for the Tiger to roar.


----------



## sokillme

jasoncampbell said:


> Clemson,
> 
> Your story reminds me of a lot of what I've faced. I remember hearing all the advice, and cliche's about getting to a better place, moving on and finding happiness.. It's a process to heal. What's happened in your life is unfair and a shock... you strike me as a rather logical guy, and your words are wrapped up in formulating acceptance around the reality you're faced with. Right now that is to construct a comparison to how it was and how it'll be. Practicality is a comfort, but your emotions are reeling... so many. I remember the feeling of hopelessness, failure, anxiety... all the undertones that wouldn't let me let go of the circumstances and the "unfairness" of it all. I knew I wasn't at fault, and I knew I was a good guy... and I had to convince myself of that by explaining things to others.
> 
> One day I met someone who showed me that I didn't need to explain what had happened, and I didn't need to revisit it. This person showed me that when something breaks you, it contains you... it traps you. Its owns you. And only you have the power to let it go. This starts from accepting that you were not at fault, and that you don't need to even say so... because it is actually irrelevant, and counter to moving towards your own happiness. So you start to focus on yourself, and in that your confidence grows and you become all those things you rationalized, because that's you to your core. You stop saying who you are, and you start being that person. You start to look back and realize "life was perfect" wasn't entirely accurate. It was only good enough. But you get to a place where you really see what a good life is, and it's being with someone who respects and values you, without the need to question, ever, that loyalty.
> 
> I'm reminded of a quote that moved me the other day:
> “There are two basic motivating forces: fear and love. When we are afraid, we pull back from life. When we are in love, we open to all that life has to offer with passion, excitement, and acceptance. We need to learn to love ourselves first, in all our glory and our imperfections. If we cannot love ourselves, we cannot fully open to our ability to love others or our potential to create. Evolution and all hopes for a better world rest in the fearlessness and open-hearted vision of people who embrace life.” - John Lennon.
> 
> Allow yourself to recognize your fears, and in that you'll resolve them much quicker... you sounds like an awesome guy. Keep your head up and you'll get past this sooner than you realize. You'll look back and be thankful she made it so easy for you to move on with your life. To love yourself first.
> 
> Better days ahead, I can promise you that. :smile2:


This is beautiful dude. I wish it was required reading of every WS. Good on you for paying it forward. Much respect.


----------



## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Lots of good encouragement here. Thanks. I really want to use this time to get to know myself better, get in the best shape of my life and just have fun. I have no desire to get into a new serious relationship right now. This was the first time in my life any woman cheated on me so I don't have any reference point. I know most women aren't like my ex-wife and I know I have a lot to offer women. My ex-wife's story and crazy decision to leave me for a man who has no quality that is better than me actually has made the process easier because it makes no sense to anyone. I will learn from the experience and do a little better in the couple areas I got lazy about next time around. I am looking forward to having fun and sampling all the great women out there. These last couple weeks have been some of the most fun times of my life even with all the divorce crap looming over my head. One great thing is that every woman I know thinks of me as the innocent victim in all this so I have major appeal for them to recommend me to their single friends.


Emotional bootcamp my friend. Learn to love being single. Never be dependent on anyone ever again. Let your spouse be a bonus and a teammate. Not a necessity.


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## Marc878

No contact, working on you and your X will become just a very distant bad memory.

You've done well. Continue that


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## MyRevelation

Marc878 said:


> No contact, working on you and your X will become just a very distant bad memory.
> 
> You've done well. Continue that


Exactly .... and get yourself that dog we spoke about ... there is some unconditional love you can count on!!!


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## VFW

Your sister is right, the hug was her way to say we both agree that the divorce was a good thing. We both know that is BS, but that is her mind set. You are going to be a little bitter about this for the near future, this will slowly turn to complete indifference. She is no longer your friend, buddy or pal, just a woman you use to know. You have a great career and future ahead, it is a Brave New World out there. Enjoy!


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## curious234

The dday was the worst. Then it slowly got better until divorce day. Now it will get better much faster. A huge drag net to your over all well being is totally removed. Have you blocked channels of communications? There will most probably contact from your Ex trying to socialise and wishing for your happiness. How are you going to respond. May be total silence


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## SunCMars

Evinrude58 said:


> The more I read, the more I see in real life, the more I grow.......
> 
> I am realizing that there is basically zero chance of being truly happy by reconciling with a cheater.
> 
> Peace if mind is never possible again. If someone says it is, they're delusional.
> 
> The cheating spouse has already shown they are willing and capable. When will the next "vulnerability" situation occur?


Evinrude... 

I have been on TAM for ~15 months.

In this time you have grown an inch or two in stature.

In awareness? Doubled....and I might be stingy here!
.........................................................................................................................................................................
*Wayward Spouses? They march to a different ditty....a different selfish tune....played in F-Minor, full hammer, sans damper, bedboards become the soundboard.. *
.........................................................................................................................................................................
Me? Wooden heads cannot grow unless you soak them [a lifetime] in holy water..............I wish. My charged, anoded cranium turns the water into plasma...hydrogen, oxygenated.. it flashes the holy water...


----------



## SunCMars

Clemson said:


> You nailed it man. I think that's why everyone is so blindsided. I had one friend say "I guess she hated taking vacations all the time, being financial secure, having a loyal loving husband who was fun, no problems in the marriage and little conflict and a husband who liked hanging out with her." She clearly doesn't appreciate how rare it is what we had. What makes me angry is she never voiced any complaints or asked me to do anything better. *Just sat there and wanted to chase feelings*.


She just sat there. Not moving much. No twitches.

Nary a blush, or sigh from her lips to give her inner cheater a face and a voice. Hidden from all...save OM. 

OM who wore the Suit of Amour' made of deceit. An armor that can pierced easily by a hard pointed stare. 

OM got WW's deeeep hidden womenly skin. Clem got the surface derma.

Apparently, that hidden flesh was warmer, yet forever untouchable to Clem and his loving Son. 

A shame, THIS. 

How wonderful that "this part of her" could have been "To Have and to Hold, through Good Times and Nigh". To loyal Clem and his medium-sized son.

In the dark, under the sheets....in the light of day... atop a stretched out picnic blanket... on a grassy plain.


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## maverick33

Read Athol Kay's book 'Married man's sex primer' She was bored...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera

maverick33 said:


> Read Athol Kay's book 'Married man's sex primer' She was bored...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And unafraid of losing you.

People should always be afraid of losing their spouse. Keeps them on their toes.


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## maverick33

Totally agree....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## maverick33

There is always two sides a coin. As much as she stuffed up, you owe it to yourself and your future partner to see what you part was. I urge you to read Athol's book...it's a very honest mirror for both. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski

maverick33 said:


> There is always two sides a coin. As much as she stuffed up, you owe it to yourself and your future partner to see what you part was. I urge you to read Athol's book...it's a very honest mirror for both.


He was working a lot. In all fairness, he told her about an opportunity for a promotion, including all that it would entail, and she encouraged him to pursue it.

What he failed to take into consideration was her voracious need for constant attention.

So yeah... important lesson:

Stay away from the overly needy, clingy ones.


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## azteca1986

turnera said:


> And unafraid of losing you.
> 
> People should always be afraid of losing their spouse. Keeps them on their toes.


Nah. That sounds unhealthy; to have someone be in a state of fear of losing you. Isn't that co-dependent thinking, btw? 

Complacency is a marriage killer, as is taking each other for granted, but dread game isn't the answer.


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## ButtPunch

azteca1986 said:


> Nah. That sounds unhealthy; to have someone be in a state of fear of losing you. Isn't that co-dependent thinking, btw?
> 
> Complacency is a marriage killer, as is taking each other for granted, but dread game isn't the answer.


I agree.

I think what Turnera means however is being a man with options.

Be someone that your spouse knows will be wanted by the opposite sex.


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## TheTruthHurts

azteca1986 said:


> Nah. That sounds unhealthy; to have someone be in a state of fear of losing you. Isn't that co-dependent thinking, btw?
> 
> 
> 
> Complacency is a marriage killer, as is taking each other for granted, but dread game isn't the answer.




I think one can be vigilant about mate guarding without being worried. I'd say that describes my W and I even with 30+ years together. It means we ask and tell about any OS contacts and, if anything we are suspect of others rather than lacking trust for our partners. But since we are aware of the "outside world" it does ensure that we never stop trying to meet each other's needs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera

azteca1986 said:


> Nah. That sounds unhealthy; to have someone be in a state of fear of losing you. Isn't that co-dependent thinking, btw?
> 
> Complacency is a marriage killer, as is taking each other for granted, but dread game isn't the answer.


Oh come on, you know I don't mean codependency and day-to-day fear. I mean respect for your partner and fear that you might fall INTO complacency and no longer deserve her.


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## sokillme

maverick33 said:


> Read Athol Kay's book 'Married man's sex primer' She was bored...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They used to call that immature.


----------



## sokillme

Here is the deal you should never be dependent on anyone for your complete happiness or better yet contentment. Let them add to it but don't be dependent on them. That is the lesson. You are responsible for you. That gives you options and makes you strong and confident. It enables you to be authentic because you can say yes and no without fear. Authentic confident people are attractive. 

Reading these threads you can pretty much tell the codependent ones from how many replies they have in their posts about being cheated on. If it is a very long thread inevitably the person who started it is very codependent. This is not a coincidence. That's not to say they are in anyway responsible for the cheating their spouse did but it is to say this is a pattern and seems to be a magnetism that draws the two types of people together. (In this case though I don't think this is you OP, but I DO think you missed the signs with your ex who is very shallow and needy. The only thing that holds relationships together when it's hard is character, both partners need to have it, she didn't.) 

Continuing on the theory of your ex it's very unfair and unhealthy to expect someone to bring you life long contentment. The only person who deserves that responsibility is you to yourself. In this case this is what your wife expected of you. She was the one who was not authentic. She was the one who was codependent. Because of that when you got busy with life doing what normal people do (growing a business), instead of having the character to deal or even just say, hey I need more from you, she just moved on to the next person who temporally made her feel whole.

Finally all that said, some people are just not meant to be in long term relationships and some long term relationships are not meant to last. Again not being dependent enables you to be in a much stronger position if they don't work out. It's OK for things to end. Life will go on, you will be happy again. That's life.


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## azteca1986

turnera said:


> Oh come on, you know I don't mean codependency and day-to-day fear. I mean respect for your partner and fear that you might fall INTO complacency and no longer deserve her.


Oh turnera! You were doing reasonably well till you threw her on top of a pedestal at the end there 

I hope Clemson is doing okay under the circumstances and I hope he's not dwelling on this period:


Clemson said:


> Even when I was busy with work for just two months, I saw my wife every night and came home for dinner. I had just started a new business. If I can't be away from her for that little time then how committed was she?


I also started my own business and I can remember the stress, the long hours, being way out of my comfort zone, putting my professional reputation very publicly on the line. I've no doubt had that carried on for a prolonged period of time, it would have taken a physical toll on me. So it's no surprise you and I would have been distracted at such a time. You _should_ have been able to lean on your spouse. After all, you weren't going through this for your own amusement, but mutual gain.

In short, don't let her blame you for her own shortcomings.


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## turnera

ButtPunch said:


> I agree.
> 
> I think what Turnera means however is being a man with options.
> 
> Be someone that your spouse knows will be wanted by the opposite sex.





azteca1986 said:


> Oh turnera! You were doing reasonably well till you threw her on top of a pedestal at the end there


Nonsense. I'd say the same thing - and HAVE said the same thing - to people of the opposite sex. 

This has nothing to do with keeping a woman on a pedestal. It has everything to do with RESPECTING your spouse and knowing that if you don't do the hard work to keep your marriage vibrant and healthy and desirable, you are leaving room for an interloper to step inside.

And trust me, your 'interloper' can be anything from another human to collecting guns to becoming addicted to Fox News to wanting to play games instead of hanging out with your spouse.


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## bandit.45

Clemson said:


> One great thing is that every woman I know thinks of me as the innocent victim in all this so I have major appeal for them to recommend me to their single friends.


Play that injured puppy thing to the max. It brings out the motherly instinct in women.


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## azteca1986

turnera said:


> Nonsense. I'd say the same thing - and HAVE said the same thing - to people of the opposite sex.
> 
> This has nothing to do with keeping a woman on a pedestal. It has everything to do with RESPECTING your spouse and knowing that if you don't do the hard work to keep your marriage vibrant and healthy and desirable, you are leaving room for an interloper to step inside.
> 
> And trust me, your 'interloper' can be anything from another human to collecting guns to becoming addicted to Fox News to wanting to play games instead of hanging out with your spouse.


Oh I agree with what you're saying _now_. It's what you said earlier I disagreed with. You said the people should aspire to be *deserving*. You're setting people up for failure if they're trying to hit a constantly moving target that only exists in somebody else's head.


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## turnera

You are mistaking what I said. When I say deserving, I mean that you should strive to be the best person you can - someone who people admire and respect and want to be around, so that they also give YOU their best face forward, don't take you for granted, because, well, you're worth being around. Like the guy who comes home from work and plants his butt on the couch and never gets up the rest of the night - why should his wife care if she pleases him? He's sure as hell not making HER life better aside from financially.


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## TDSC60

Clemson,

Is your XW still around or has she moved on? Have you had any contact since the D?


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## Clemson

Hey everyone. Thought I'd give you an update on me. Divorce was final May 2. Besides sending some checks to my wife, I have not heard from her nor have I communicated with her since in any way. Hard to believe two people who were so totally and completely in love have nothing to do with each other. I sometimes wonder what she's up to and if she thinks of me when I see something that triggers a memory. Anyway, my life is fantastic. As many here predicted, I am slaying it out here. I went on three dates with three different women last week. And I have another one coming over tonight. There is a shortage of good guys for sure. I joined match.com 6 weeks ago for fun and have gotten 110 likes from women. I have lost 35 lbs and am in the best shape since college 20 years ago. For those of you going through a cheating spouse, it will get better with time. I was a wreck from November to February. I have used this time to work on myself and do all those things I thought I'd always get around to. Also, because I was cheated on, women are eager to set me up with other women and they are sympathetic. I can honestly say I love my life.


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## Marc878

Good for you. 

Hard no contact and in a year or two the X will be a very distant and fading bad memory.


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Hey everyone. Thought I'd give you an update on me. Divorce was final May 2. Besides sending some checks to my wife, I have not heard from her nor have I communicated with her since in any way. Hard to believe two people who were so totally and completely in love have nothing to do with each other. I sometimes wonder what she's up to and if she thinks of me when I see something that triggers a memory. Anyway, my life is fantastic. As many here predicted, I am slaying it out here. I went on three dates with three different women last week. And I have another one coming over tonight. There is a shortage of good guys for sure. I joined match.com 6 weeks ago for fun and have gotten 110 likes from women. I have lost 35 lbs and am in the best shape since college 20 years ago. For those of you going through a cheating spouse, it will get better with time. I was a wreck from November to February. I have used this time to work on myself and do all those things I thought I'd always get around to. Also, because I was cheated on, women are eager to set me up with other women and they are sympathetic. I can honestly say I love my life.


Good update, really not surprised. Be damn scrupulous when you decided to get serious again.


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## TheTruthHurts

@Clemson just ran into an old buddy on the train. He just got married to a great woman. Was single about 3 years dating women in OLD which he said was wild (in a good way at least for a night) and then landed a gem. Dated about 3 years and got hitched. You'll do great 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Truthseeker1

Clemson said:


> Hey everyone. Thought I'd give you an update on me. Divorce was final May 2. Besides sending some checks to my wife, I have not heard from her nor have I communicated with her since in any way. Hard to believe two people who were so totally and completely in love have nothing to do with each other. I sometimes wonder what she's up to and if she thinks of me when I see something that triggers a memory. Anyway, my life is fantastic. As many here predicted, I am slaying it out here. I went on three dates with three different women last week. And I have another one coming over tonight. There is a shortage of good guys for sure. I joined match.com 6 weeks ago for fun and have gotten 110 likes from women. I have lost 35 lbs and am in the best shape since college 20 years ago. For those of you going through a cheating spouse, it will get better with time. I was a wreck from November to February. I have used this time to work on myself and do all those things I thought I'd always get around to. Also, because I was cheated on, women are eager to set me up with other women and they are sympathetic. I can honestly say I love my life.


Great! Keep moving forward - your ex is irrelevant - remember she is now a stranger - the opposite of love is indifference - she has no meaning to you anymore...she is nothing. Good luck!


----------



## BetrayedDad

Clemson said:


> I sometimes wonder what she's up to and if she thinks of me when I see something that triggers a memory.


Give it another six months and you won't give two craps about that stupid ****. Her loss.



Clemson said:


> Anyway, my life is fantastic. * As many here predicted, I am slaying it out here. * I went on three dates with three different women last week. And I have another one coming over tonight.


Baller! Man, sometimes I get so tired of being right....



BetrayedDad said:


> There will be women literally falling over themselves to be with a lawyer, who has his sh!t together, in good shape, who has no kids.
> 
> 30 something women on the dating scene have biological clocks screaming at them to lock down a guy like you. *You're gonna slay.*


----------



## TDSC60

Clemson said:


> Hey everyone. Thought I'd give you an update on me. Divorce was final May 2. Besides sending some checks to my wife, I have not heard from her nor have I communicated with her since in any way. Hard to believe two people who were so totally and completely in love have nothing to do with each other. I sometimes wonder what she's up to and if she thinks of me when I see something that triggers a memory. Anyway, my life is fantastic. As many here predicted, I am slaying it out here. I went on three dates with three different women last week. And I have another one coming over tonight. There is a shortage of good guys for sure. I joined match.com 6 weeks ago for fun and have gotten 110 likes from women. I have lost 35 lbs and am in the best shape since college 20 years ago. For those of you going through a cheating spouse, it will get better with time. I was a wreck from November to February. I have used this time to work on myself and do all those things I thought I'd always get around to. Also, because I was cheated on, women are eager to set me up with other women and they are sympathetic. I can honestly say I love my life.


:smthumbup::grin2::smthumbup:

Have fun and don't get too serious with any one female for a couple of years. You will be in recovery for a while until you simply do not care what XW is doing and the memories are just that - memories with zero emotional attachments.


----------



## Marc878

Hey Clemson,

How's it going for you?


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## Marc878

I hope you made it through the holidays ok.

Take care


----------



## BurnedButLearned

Clemson: hopefully you realize that your wife didn't change; she was always that person. Google "Briffault's law".

Any woman you are with can do the same thing to you again that your ex-wife did and there is no way you can protect yourself from that happening, except to not get the government involved in your relationships by signing a legal document. (marriage). Since divorce law and family law tends to favor women, you have no advantage in signing such a legal document.

Be monogamous if you will, play the field if you will, but simply realize that a relationship can be committed and monogamous without dragging the government into it, and if she tries to force you into such, she is simply attempting to put herself into a better position in the future. (legal document of marriage, followed by divorce, and cash and prizes) Simply not worth the risk.


----------



## SunCMars

BurnedButLearned said:


> Clemson: hopefully you realize that your wife didn't change; she was always that person. Google "Briffault's law".
> 
> Any woman you are with can do the same thing to you again that your ex-wife did and there is no way you can protect yourself from that happening, except to not get the government involved in your relationships by signing a legal document. (marriage). Since divorce law and family law tends to favor women, you have no advantage in signing such a legal document.
> 
> Be monogamous if you will, play the field if you will, but simply realize that a relationship can be committed and monogamous without dragging the government into it, and if she tries to force you into such, she is simply attempting to put herself into a better position in the future. (legal document of marriage, followed by divorce, and cash and prizes) Simply not worth the risk.


When Some Truth reaches one's waist, but not one's eyes, this is that Truth, your Truth above.
Tall enough to be seen, not tall enough to be Gospel.

Tall enough to kick sense in one's vulnerable place.


----------



## Taxman

Clemson, I will tell you the one thing that has been constant in all of the years that I have done matrimonial finance work: The minute, the wayward spouse sees their former betrayed partner in a new relationship, the **** hits the fan. Suddenly, it finally dawns on them that while they were getting ego kibble and whoring themselves out for mediocre sex and compliments, their ex BS has found something BETTER. Case in point: I have a wonderful 50ish woman. She is not hard on the eyes, makes a good living, pays her bills and lives a decent life. Her ex husband was more interested in dipping his wick into anything with a vulva. So, the divorce is finalized, and I tell her that I have a friend or two that would definitely be interested. Her ex is at the meeting, and shoots me a dirty look. (my attitude-fvck you and the horse you rode in on) Pretty soon, her dance card is filled. Six months down the line, and she is sitting in front of me with her new fellow. He is a year or two older, and widowed. He also has a few dollars to rub together. Her ex is ballistic. He hates it that she has found someone new. She is going to move in with him in the next several months, and guess what? Her Ex wants to reconcile. So, I bring her in for a pre-taxation summit, and after we get our planning down, I ask what is happening. She tells me that she is going to have to take out a restraining order on her ex. I tell her that is a prudent approach. His reaction was predictable. Sauce for the goose so to speak. This crap repeats and is incredibly predictable. I told her that she should take out the RO, and then, if at all possible, move (which in this case is now likely, he has property in the south, and I think they'll be deleriously happy-I also snagged an invite to their place next winter.) This applies to both sexes. I have had wayward wives sitting in front of me weeping uncontrollably, that they gave up their great guy, best dad, good lover, for the bad boy, who has either already dumped her, or is already messing around on her. One swore that she was going to murder her ex-husband's new wife. She had proven to the ex that he was desireable and sexy, his exWW made it a career to cut him down and make him out to be homely and undesireable. She did this to build herself up, she let him know that she was the better looking and more desireable of the two. So, when the divorce was finalized, and he suddenly found himself inundated with dates, he quickly reassessed and told his ex; thanks for cutting me down all those years, I found out that you are so full of **** your eyes are brown. Turns out, I am the better looking one, and I have a whole bunch of new fillies to check out. Have fun changing your new guy's (he is in his '70's) "Depends".


----------



## Malaise

@Taxman

I love your stories.


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## Taxman

Believe me, there are times I wish I had stayed in real estate development. There I am only dealing with sharpies and frauds.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Taxman said:


> Believe me, there are times I wish I had stayed in real estate development. There I am only dealing with sharpies and frauds.


 But think how much entertainment you (and us) would have missed out on. Not to mention I expect your job now is much more stable.


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## GusPolinski

Malaise said:


> @Taxman
> 
> I love your stories.


LOL right


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## manfromlamancha

Are we still flogging this dead horse ? @Clemson has moved on and it doesn't look like he is coming back here to give us an update. I wonder why though!


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## GusPolinski

manfromlamancha said:


> Are we still flogging this dead horse ? @Clemson has moved on and it doesn't look like he is coming back here to give us an update. I wonder why though!


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## manfromlamancha

GusPolinski said:


>


OK who stole all the furniture from the Lodge temple ?


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## Mrs.Stone

To be honest she sounds like a clingy women and once you were to busy to cling to she found someone eles tongue her the attenchen and affection she wanted. She is one of 3 and could not be away from you. The signs were all there.

When the time comes for you to be involved with someone eles this is something you want to be aware of. 

This silver lining is small but it is still silver.

Best wishes


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## Taxman

A little T/J
I really can't go back to real estate development: I testified against a former employer. He is now on the hook for $17M. Haven't looked lately, but I think I am still blacklisted. My wife was in the field at the same time, and I was a topic of discussion at many a boardroom table. It is an incredibly incestuous industry. Burn a bridge somewhere, and it's rotting spirit follows you. Like I say, I have had an interesting life thus far.


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## TDSC60

I was hoping @Clemson would visit from time to time to share his lessons with other in his former situation, but as he said, he is happy in his new life and just wants to put all the drama in the past.

Maybe he will come back to help others, maybe he is too busy with all the ladies chasing him to think about that at this time.


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## Clemson

Hey guys. It has been a while since I last checked in. Sorry, life has been busy and great. 2017 was my second best year of income and I had a great time meeting lots of women. My married friends were all living vicariously through me. Funny how when you are in the eye of the hurricane, you think the world is ending. I cried alone in my car one morning - I just didn't think I could go on. That was over a year ago. I'm happy to report that a year later it all seems like a dream. I had the summer of my life in 2017. I think we worry too much about the unknown. We all deserve happiness. You don't deserve to be treated poorly. Know this: the script is reversed after you turn 30. The number of decent guys over 30 is way way less than the number of good women. You will be very sought after. I'm not bragging here: I had more sex since I got divorced than I did in college and its only been a year. And with smoking hot women. One was a beauty pageant winner for crying out loud. Ages 26-43 and I'm 42 years old. But I want guys going through this to know it will get better. You will be happy. Don't give up. Focus on yourself. I lost 40 pounds and got in the best shape of my life. Learn something from the nightmare. Even if she was the cheater, your actions or choices played a small role in the marriage failure. Accept that and grow from this expensive lesson. Don't be ashamed of what happened. I tell anyone who asks what happened and I'm not ashamed. It's a reflection on her that she cheated. Women will love that you were the loyal victim. And I have talked with 2-3 guys who are going through this to help them from my experience. I'm happy to report I've been dating a great 31 y/o girl for the past 5 months and we are very happy. She is the younger sister of a girl I went to high school with. It feels right since I know all about her family and she knows mine. I'm not sure we will ever get married but if we do, it is going to require prenups and postnups. I am not going through the financial mess again. Its like a business. You don't go into business without knowing how things will play out if the business dissolves. The same should be true about marriage. Don't be scared to love again but don't be a fool and think its going to last forever. I'm not counting on her loving me forever. If anything, I'm skeptical of the life partner thing and if it happens, great. If not, then I know I've survived the worst life can throw my way. I didn't realize it at the time but my ex-wife did me a favor and I've never been happier.


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## sokillme

Clemson said:


> Hey guys. It has been a while since I last checked in. Sorry, life has been busy and great. 2017 was my second best year of income and I had a great time meeting lots of women. My married friends were all living vicariously through me. Funny how when you are in the eye of the hurricane, you think the world is ending. I cried alone in my car one morning - I just didn't think I could go on. That was over a year ago. I'm happy to report that a year later it all seems like a dream. I had the summer of my life in 2017. I think we worry too much about the unknown. We all deserve happiness. You don't deserve to be treated poorly. Know this: the script is reversed after you turn 30. The number of decent guys over 30 is way way less than the number of good women. You will be very sought after. I'm not bragging here: I had more sex since I got divorced than I did in college and its only been a year. And with smoking hot women. One was a beauty pageant winner for crying out loud. Ages 26-43 and I'm 42 years old. But I want guys going through this to know it will get better. You will be happy. Don't give up. Focus on yourself. I lost 40 pounds and got in the best shape of my life. Learn something from the nightmare. Even if she was the cheater, your actions or choices played a small role in the marriage failure. Accept that and grow from this expensive lesson. Don't be ashamed of what happened. I tell anyone who asks what happened and I'm not ashamed. It's a reflection on her that she cheated. Women will love that you were the loyal victim. And I have talked with 2-3 guys who are going through this to help them from my experience. I'm happy to report I've been dating a great 31 y/o girl for the past 5 months and we are very happy. She is the younger sister of a girl I went to high school with. It feels right since I know all about her family and she knows mine. I'm not sure we will ever get married but if we do, it is going to require prenups and postnups. I am not going through the financial mess again. Its like a business. You don't go into business without knowing how things will play out if the business dissolves. The same should be true about marriage. Don't be scared to love again but don't be a fool and think its going to last forever. I'm not counting on her loving me forever. If anything, I'm skeptical of the life partner thing and if it happens, great. If not, then I know I've survived the worst life can throw my way. I didn't realize it at the time but my ex-wife did me a favor and I've never been happier.


Good for you. This is a pretty typical outcome. Sad that so many think it's not the norm. Please continue to post and let others who were where you were in the beginning of this thread how it turned out at the end. If more people were empowered to abandon their abusive situations they would have better lives. I wish we did a better job of that here whatever peoples ultimate choice. I am contemplating adding your thread to the HOF post I made a while ago.


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## Tatsuhiko

All I can say, in my most petty voice, is WE TOLD YOU SO. Back on page 32, in fact. Good for you, man. Let this tale be a lesson for any other betrayed husband who feels like it's all over. This was a GOOD THING that happened to you, as crazy as it sounds.


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## Truthseeker1

Clemson said:


> Hey guys. It has been a while since I last checked in. Sorry, life has been busy and great. 2017 was my second best year of income and I had a great time meeting lots of women. My married friends were all living vicariously through me. Funny how when you are in the eye of the hurricane, you think the world is ending. I cried alone in my car one morning - I just didn't think I could go on. That was over a year ago. I'm happy to report that a year later it all seems like a dream. I had the summer of my life in 2017. I think we worry too much about the unknown. We all deserve happiness. You don't deserve to be treated poorly. Know this: the script is reversed after you turn 30. The number of decent guys over 30 is way way less than the number of good women. You will be very sought after. I'm not bragging here: I had more sex since I got divorced than I did in college and its only been a year. And with smoking hot women. One was a beauty pageant winner for crying out loud. Ages 26-43 and I'm 42 years old. But I want guys going through this to know it will get better. You will be happy. Don't give up. Focus on yourself. I lost 40 pounds and got in the best shape of my life. Learn something from the nightmare. Even if she was the cheater, your actions or choices played a small role in the marriage failure. Accept that and grow from this expensive lesson. Don't be ashamed of what happened. I tell anyone who asks what happened and I'm not ashamed. It's a reflection on her that she cheated. Women will love that you were the loyal victim. And I have talked with 2-3 guys who are going through this to help them from my experience. I'm happy to report I've been dating a great 31 y/o girl for the past 5 months and we are very happy. She is the younger sister of a girl I went to high school with. It feels right since I know all about her family and she knows mine. I'm not sure we will ever get married but if we do, it is going to require prenups and postnups. I am not going through the financial mess again. Its like a business. You don't go into business without knowing how things will play out if the business dissolves. The same should be true about marriage. Don't be scared to love again but don't be a fool and think its going to last forever. I'm not counting on her loving me forever. If anything, I'm skeptical of the life partner thing and if it happens, great. If not, then I know I've survived the worst life can throw my way. I didn't realize it at the time but my ex-wife did me a favor and I've never been happier.


Wonderful to hear!! Yes the unknown can be scary but it holds many more opportunities for happiness. I love stories like yours. What does chumplady say "lose a cheater get a life"!


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## SentHereForAReason

I like this post 😀. Being 38 and seeing your 42 and the options are good makes me feel more confident in the future. My official divorce is still a few months out so I won't even start to look until it's official (important to me at least to honor my vow to the end) and I know my kids are transitioning well. I'm in no rush but good to hear what's on the other side.


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## Trumbull

Congratulations on your new life! Sound like all turned out fine for you. I had a few men that worked for me several years ago all in their late 30's early 40's. Their wives cheated on them and they ended up divorcing. After a few months of mourning, they discovered other women. It was like all of a sudden they were turned loose in a candy shop. They had more dates and sex than they knew how to handle. Eventually the novelty wore off and they ended up marrying nice women and to my knowledge are leading happy lives. Tragedy can turn out to be a blessing sometimes. Reconciliation is not always the answer. I am very happy that it has turned out good for you! A good life is the best revenge.


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## TDSC60

Great update.

Great outlook on the future.

Great things ahead for you.


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## Kamstel

Fantastic to read that you are doing so well! Very happy for you.


And has the X crashed and burned yet?


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## TDSC60

What happened to the XW? Did she end up moving to be with the POS?


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## SentHereForAReason

TDSC60 said:


> What happened to the XW? Did she end up moving to be with the POS?


It's ironic but the Vets always want the BSs to not care about the WSs or wonder what they are doing (and for good reason) but we all want to know what happened to the WSs after lol!


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## Clemson

stillfightingforus said:


> It's ironic but the Vets always want the BSs to not care about the WSs or wonder what they are doing (and for good reason) but we all want to know what happened to the WSs after lol!


Haha I was thinking the same thing - lots of questions about the X. My X moved to Virginia to be with the OM and his 3 kids in August. I assume he is going through his divorce. I have only heard from her twice since then (asking for tax info). She tried to be upbeat and I just send her the info she wants without comment. I do not care to know what she is up to. I hope it works out for her but I know she will regret it one day. I am still close with one of her sisters and their family is still very disappointed with her and they don't hear much from her anymore. They say she is so stubborn she wants to prove this was the right move. It has definitely created a wedge in her family. I actually like that she has moved away so I don't have to run into her. To this day I still don't know what the OM looks like. That is old news and my old life - it seems like a distant memory. Really happy with where I'm at. Thanks for all the well wishes and thoughts throughout this.


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## Clemson

stillfightingforus said:


> I like this post 😀. Being 38 and seeing your 42 and the options are good makes me feel more confident in the future. My official divorce is still a few months out so I won't even start to look until it's official (important to me at least to honor my vow to the end) and I know my kids are transitioning well. I'm in no rush but good to hear what's on the other side.


I waited until my divorce was final as well before dating. I think its good to get some healing and time alone. Plus it avoids the awkward conversations with women "I'm going through a divorce so technically still married". You don't even know how much fun you are going to have. Just wait. Women will throw themselves at you. Just be careful not to get someone pregnant!


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## SentHereForAReason

Clemson said:


> Haha I was thinking the same thing - lots of questions about the X. My X moved to Virginia to be with the OM and his 3 kids in August. I assume he is going through his divorce. I have only heard from her twice since then (asking for tax info). She tried to be upbeat and I just send her the info she wants without comment. I do not care to know what she is up to. I hope it works out for her but I know she will regret it one day. I am still close with one of her sisters and their family is still very disappointed with her and they don't hear much from her anymore. They say she is so stubborn she wants to prove this was the right move. It has definitely created a wedge in her family. I actually like that she has moved away so I don't have to run into her. To this day I still don't know what the OM looks like. That is old news and my old life - it seems like a distant memory. Really happy with where I'm at. Thanks for all the well wishes and thoughts throughout this.


This is why I am trying to move away from the thoughts of her getting hers, karma, closure, etc. The personality of my STBXW is one of hating to be wrong, super stubborn and this would be the ultimate bummer for her when she finds out she was wrong for all of this but my counselor thinks by the way she handles demons and has been manipulative her whole life, she may have built in ways for dealing with the crushing disappointment she will incur in the future when it doesn't work out between her and OM, or even sooner when she realizes OM won't leave his wife even after she finalizes our divorce.

Awesome you are finding your groove again!


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## TDSC60

Clemson said:


> Haha I was thinking the same thing - lots of questions about the X. My X moved to Virginia to be with the OM and his 3 kids in August. I assume he is going through his divorce. I have only heard from her twice since then (asking for tax info). She tried to be upbeat and I just send her the info she wants without comment. I do not care to know what she is up to. I hope it works out for her but I know she will regret it one day. I am still close with one of her sisters and their family is still very disappointed with her and they don't hear much from her anymore. They say she is so stubborn she wants to prove this was the right move. It has definitely created a wedge in her family. I actually like that she has moved away so I don't have to run into her. To this day I still don't know what the OM looks like. *That is old news and my old life - it seems like a distant memory. Really happy with where I'm at.* Thanks for all the well wishes and thoughts throughout this.


This is the result we hope to see for all who are betrayed and choose divorce.


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## Imajerk17

I've just read through this thread. I must admit that I have seen many many situations on here such as this: Woman leaves a happy marriage (financial, emotional, and physical) to someone has everything going for him, for someone else who doesn't seem to have nearly as much going for him and who also seems to have lots of problems. It HAS to be a cliche.

I wonder if some women (subconsciously) need drama. As in, they go for someone with all these problems over the nice smooth life because, well, that's how it is in the love stories right. How can you feel like a heroine unless things are difficult with the one you love and you are fighting through all these problems together.  And maybe on some level it makes sense. I guess. We take pride at successfully overcoming challenges at work, maybe some women pride themselves at overcoming challenges in their relationships.

Anyway @Clemson I am happy to hear that you moved on with your life and are happy.


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## Angelle

She had to become someone else in order to go through with this. What you and her family, your friends are seeing is her grasping at some piece of herself that is buried from the past. It is completely unpredictable when she will come to, take her daggers out of you and let them fall to the ground. Move forward as kindly as possible. She will regret the nature of these actions. My ex husband did a similar thing and he has never really recovered.


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## TheGoodGuy

Clemson said:


> Haha I was thinking the same thing - lots of questions about the X. My X moved to Virginia to be with the OM and his 3 kids in August. I assume he is going through his divorce. I have only heard from her twice since then (asking for tax info). She tried to be upbeat and I just send her the info she wants without comment. I do not care to know what she is up to. I hope it works out for her but I know she will regret it one day. I am still close with one of her sisters and their family is still very disappointed with her and they don't hear much from her anymore. They say she is so *stubborn she wants to prove this was the right move.* It has definitely created a wedge in her family. I actually like that she has moved away so I don't have to run into her. To this day I still don't know what the OM looks like. That is old news and my old life - it seems like a distant memory. Really happy with where I'm at. Thanks for all the well wishes and thoughts throughout this.


Yep, pretty normal. Trying to save face and prove "See? Everything worked out for the best. Clemson is happy, and look how well I'm doing! All is well!! Guess it was meant to be this way!"

Glad to see you're doing so well sir.


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## SentHereForAReason

Angelle said:


> She had to become someone else in order to go through with this. What you and her family, your friends are seeing is her grasping at some piece of herself that is buried from the past. It is completely unpredictable when she will come to, take her daggers out of you and let them fall to the ground. Move forward as kindly as possible. She will regret the nature of these actions. My ex husband did a similar thing and he has never really recovered.


Could you elaborate on your husband never really recovering. Just curious? Do you mean he came face to face with what he had done and is now emotionally paying the price for it?


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## Jharp

@Clemson I wish you well man. You got put through hell. If anyone deserves it, it is you.


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## Stormguy2018

Just read through this. Clemson, you are one awesome guy! Enjoy your new life!


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