# Not so much fun



## WonderHow (Dec 17, 2012)

Quick intro - my WW had an affair about a year ago. We both posted on another board but I left to come here so I could post freely without having to explain every post. She's remorseful and has done everything a wayward should do. We have been to both IC & MC, we communicate better and in lots of ways are better as a couple now than before. I can't get past what she did but since we have two young kids I made a decision to stay for them, knowing all the arguments against that. And I don’t resent them for my decision, but do feel responsible to make sure they have an unbroken home.

I guess what follows is a stream of conscious of all that’s been going through my head lately that I feel like I need to get off my chest. Sorry for the pity party, but thanks for the ear.

I spend most days wondering if I will get to the point where I am brave enough to tell her I want a divorce. I know it was a deal breaker for me. I don’t really love her anymore and don’t think it’ll ever come back. I still say I love her when she says it to me, but only because I don’t want to deal with explaining why I didn’t say it. 

I am not unhappy but just feel like there’s a huge hole in my life. We do fun things, have more in common now than we did before the affair and are good parents together. Absent the affair and what it did to me, I think I would feel like I had a very complete life. But I just don’t feel “it” any more. I usually enjoy myself more when I’m away from her than when I am with her.

I am resentful that she got to go out and have the excitement of new sex. There are plenty of women who I would have liked to have slept with and have had plenty of opportunities but passed them by because of this assumption that you don’t screw other people while you are married. Now that this has happened, why should I care about that anymore? Having sex with someone else sounds like a lot of fun. 

I hate how this has consumed my life. At first it was the devastation, then it was the limbo, now it’s the acceptance that this is what my life will be like unless I divorce and I just can’t imagine doing that to my babies. 

So anyway, I guess I don’t really know what I’m looking for but it felt good to at least get this to paper. Maybe someone can tell me that what I feel is normal and it gets better.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Wow, just wow.

It doesn't get better in your case, it gets worse. Eventually you'll hate even looking at her, being near her, even hearing her voice. You'll do anything and everything to be away from her as much as possible.

Then, when it's almost eaten you up and you have nothing left, you'll do the one thing you don't want to do while still married to her.

Get out, if it's gone it's gone.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Make your choices carefully. I am glad you have given R a chance. you need to be honest with her for yourself and your family good luck


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

It's normal. I am going through it right now. 

I still love her, and I want us to R. But I don't trust her. She is trying to move on and pretend things are fine, but little things she says and does trigger me. I can't stop the near constant stream of negative thoughts. I try to only bring it up once or twice per week, but even when we do talk it doesn't seem to help.

I am not sure yet how it will turn out. But I am willing to give it time. I am hoping with time she will prove to me she can stay loyal, but I still wonder if I am just a sucker and setting myself up for more pain.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I wish I could tell you that everything will be alright and you'll make it fine, but that would be hypocritical. 

The way you describe your feelings now; they're very similar to mine. I'm 14 months from Dday with my wife, but those pangs of hurt are with me every day, despite our good moments and our otherwise "improved" relationship.

I've been told it can take 2 to 5 years to get past the worst of it. I'm still waiting and holding on I guess, just like you are. In fact there are times when I almost hope she'll do something now to give me a reason to leave her and remove all doubt, but damn it, she's not cooperating. (That's kind of a joke). So the reality is, if I do decide to end it with her, it will likely be on the heels of her being the best wife she's ever been - after being the worst you could imagine.

Is your wife truly remorseful? If so, what has she done to show it? 

Has counseling helped you?


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## WonderHow (Dec 17, 2012)

badmemory it sounds like we are in very, very similar situations. counseling for me was extremely helpful. i went through a number before i bit the bullet and paid for one of the best in my area (she was nearly 3x the price of others but the adage you get what you pay for absolutely applied with my IC). we did some very intense sessions and actually got to the point where she told me I didn't need to come back...

as far as my wife being remorseful all I can say is that I am humbled by everything she has done to try and help me and save the marriage. she's addressed very, very deep childhood / family issues, bent over backwards to do whatever she can to hep me recover, etc, etc. ironically, it's made her a better person and without the baggage of the affair, she is a better mate now than she was in the past.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Acoa said:


> It's normal. I am going through it right now.
> 
> I still love her, and I want us to R.


Well Acoa, yours is different from the OP. He doesn't love her anymore, in it only for the kids right now if you read his post.

Normal for you because you still want her and love her. He's done, the gas tank is empty and he's sitting in the car wondering should he wait for someone to bring some more gas, go and find some gas himself or just leave the car and walk away from it.

Apples and oranges in both your situations. For R to happen, he's got to want it and put in the effort.

2-5 years is if you're both working on the marriage. Never going to happen is when you're done and staying for the kids so they have a mom and dad.


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Man, I feel exactly the same way. Amazing there's so many of us. (2 years after initial D-Day, with a lot of lies and garbage thrown in for the ensuing year).

I guess what you and I are feeling is a normal reaction for some, based on the responses. I was married for 23 years at the point I found out about my wife's affair.

"I don’t really love her anymore and don’t think it’ll ever come back. I still say I love her when she says it to me, but only because I don’t want to deal with explaining why I didn’t say it."

". . . there’s a huge hole in my life."

". . . I just don’t feel “it” any more."

Gives me chills. These statement describe me to a T.

How about this one: I've just lost interest in having sex with her. When I look at her body, knowing that she gave it to another man, I'm just not that interested. She's like damaged goods now. I try to avoid sex entirely. Virtually overnight, I went from a 3-times a week kind of guy to forcing it once a month or so.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Sorry dude but as much as you want it to get better it will not.

She killed your love by her betrayal and that is normal. How can you love a person who sh#ts on your family without as much as a second thought and then lies about it.

I am not going to tell you to get a divorce, but I will tell you that the feeling of being trapped in a loveless marriage will get worse.

Maybe you can live with that maybe not.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Acoa said:


> It's normal. I am going through it right now.
> 
> I still love her, and I want us to R. But I don't trust her. She is trying to move on and pretend things are fine, but little things she says and does trigger me. I can't stop the near constant stream of negative thoughts. I try to only bring it up once or twice per week, but even when we do talk it doesn't seem to help.
> 
> I am not sure yet how it will turn out. But I am willing to give it time. I am hoping with time she will prove to me she can stay loyal, but I still wonder if I am just a sucker and setting myself up for more pain.


I was where you are for a long time. Unfortunately, I had to catch their underground affair two more times to get it to stop...or so as much as I think it has stopped...

In my wife's case, if we continued to talk about it, I was living in the past and couldn't get past it. If I pretended all was good, she just assumed that we were doing great and things would soon be back to "normal". 

In the end, she couldn't give me the reassurances I needed, and it spelled our doom. I have never been the man who needed touching, a hug or reassurance that I was "the man" for her or whatnot. I was just that confident but was always very loving and touchy to her as I knew that she always needed it. Unfortunately, I was no longer in a position to do these things for her (like saying "I love you", as was pointed out), or the spooning in bed. And she couldn't do them for me, or show me she had changed.

Hold onto the hope as long as it's reasonable, but trust what you see. If they aren't working towards making you better now, it will become less so over time. Better to get out while you still like each other. Who knows, maybe the shock of divorce will put them back on the right path.


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

The only way anything will get better, will be if you file for divorce. I've been in your shoes, and I've done the IC, MC, etc. He never ever owned up to what he did. Even after I had information he never even knew I had, I would even ask, 'you're being honest right?', and he would look me right in the eyes, over and over, and say, 'yes'. When you see your wife, you still think you see your wife, in reality we are dealing with totally different people than who we thought we married. These are cheaters, of the same caliber you see on tv, or hear other people talk about. We ended up with them, and now they all want forgiveness and for THEIR life to return to normal, until they feel like doing things to us again. Do yourself a favor, and just like she was able to muster up the courage to take her clothes off and sleep with another man, put your clothes on, walk over to a lawyer's office, and don't think twice about it. she didn't think twice about cheating on you, or her children. She cheated them out of having normal life, with a nuclear family, with love and trust, but she didn't care. So to hell with her, you need to be happy. You can't wait on her to make you happy, look at what she did! Yes, they'll go through good phases, and then they'll do it again, just because they can, and they know they can do it because there are NO CONSEQUENCES. If thieves knew they could rob a bank and the cops wouldn't come, what would deter them from robbing daily? You are NOT A DOORMAT.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Staying together 'for the kids' is a huge mistake. Your kids already come from a broken home - your wife broke it when she had an affair. Your kids are going to pick up on your feelings, or lack thereof - they probably already have - and carry that with them into adulthood as an example of what marriage should look like. Is that really what you want for them???

As for sleeping with someone else - don't be that person. You've been better than that for all these years, don't do that to yourself. Screw what your wife would think - she doesn't get a vote any more. But you do. Do the honorable thing and get a divorce, THEN sleep around all you want. You don't sound like a cheater to me, and once you become a cheater, you can never become a non-cheater ever again.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I also think that using the kids as an reason to stay is wrong. My parents were married for 25 years, of which about 7 or so were happy. I was the last of 4 kids, and my mom put me in pre-school early so that she could get her degree and have the ability to support her kids. They vacillated between misery and tolerance for eachother the duration of my childhood, until finally divorcing the month after I graduated high school. My siblings and I have all talked about how we like them both so much better apart... they were not happy together, and it warped what we all thought relationships should be like. It's something to consider. They were so miserable dealing with their own emotions a lot of the time they completely forgot about us, especially as we got older. 

I understand your anger - it isn't fair. You are the only person that knows if this is something that you can truly get past or not... and if it isn't, you need to move on.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The way you now feel about her is both normal and reasonable. Her choice to cheat literally kill your love for her. In your heart you are now done with her. 

You know parents get divorced and kids go on. Obamas patents divorced and he became president.

Life is precious. Don't waste yours living in a prison without love.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

OP's message is sad and scary. I don't want my love for her to die but I feel it happening a tiny bit everyday. I try to act like it's okay but I don't feel okay. I desperately want to save my love for her but don't know how.

I can't even bring myself to buy her anything for Christmas. My children are grown and know she cheated but think everything is fine. I've always overdone it for her at Christmas time. I guess the cat will be out of the bag when they see how little I do this year.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I have tremendous empathy for you. I, too, would say that it's not worth it to stay just for the children. You say they are young, which means you have years ahead of you in this unsatisfying limbo of a marriage. The children will adapt. There are many children of divorced parents who say they prefer their parents to be apart than together. It's not a perfect solution, but your W ruined your chances for perfect when she chose to have an affair.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Yes it's normal and I went through it once. Some men are not built to handle infidelity even once even if WW is doing the heavy lifting. I'm one of them and you may or may not be one.

Often I don't comment on recovery threads because it doesn't compute with me as to how to get rid of those invasive thoughts so I know exactly what you're going through (except time has dulled it). 

If you're wondering about the anger and resentment you feel, it may show up less frequently but it's there to stay. Even guys who successfully recovered will tell you that.


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## WonderHow (Dec 17, 2012)

@JustGrinding yep sex and intimacy in general is totally changed now. You always hear about how women are the ones that get sex and emotions tied up but the same certainly applies for us dudes too. I went from as often as she would give it up to the once a week club.

I guess a big part of my struggle with stay vs. go is that I don't dislike my wife. Certainly I dislike what she did but I can tolerate her just fine. In fact we're very compatible on many levels. When I say I'm not "in love" it's more a matter of just not feeling that connection. It's almost like how I felt when I was generally annoyed with her before all of this happened but now it's more constant and it always comes back to what she did versus possible other underlying issues. I just don't know. 

So as a general question, do you think reconciliation is even possible? I know there are lots of stories of people who have successfully reconciled but what defines success? Did they have a stronger foundation of love before all this happened? Wired differently? 

Also since this is a brain dump I'll go onto a bit of a tangent; is it odd that one of the reasons I don't want to end the marriage is that I think it would still kill me to see her with another man. Where's the logic in that.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

There's no logic to feelings.

Ours is what can be considered a 'successful so far' R. I say so far, because we're only just over 2 years past the last D day. Our marriage today is FAR better than it was before. There are two main reasons for this I think:
1) I let him go. I kicked him out on D day. I was DONE. I was ready to go on on my own, and I did. I did the 180 - not perfectly because I didn't have TAM to guide me, I did it inadvertently - but I concentrated on myself and said to hell with him. And through this process I discovered that I was perfectly fine on my own. Happy even.
2) He came out of the fog pretty quickly and started doing everything he should have. He begged and grovelled. He apologized - ad nauseum. (still does sometimes) He set up counseling for himself, and for us when I decided to do MC. He sought out a 12 step program and still attends. He offered to put a keylogger on his computer, gave me all his passwords, cut off contact with his online harem, uninstalled all the chat programs, gave me his work email and bank account passwords, offered to GPS his phone for me, got rid of the couch he had the BJ on, etc etc etc. HE did all this - I didn't even have to ask.

As a result of both of the above, I realized that I could choose whether to be with him, and that if he followed through on everything I actually WANTED to still be with him. So we are. And he is following through. And I love it


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

WonderHow said:


> @JustGrinding yep *sex and intimacy in general is totally changed now*. You always hear about how women are the ones that get sex and emotions tied up but the same certainly applies for us dudes too. I went from as often as she would give it up to the once a week club.
> 
> I guess a big part of my struggle with stay vs. go is that *I don't dislike my wife*. Certainly I dislike what she did but I can tolerate her just fine. In fact we're very compatible on many levels. When I say I'm not "in love" it's more a matter of just not feeling that connection. It's almost like how I felt when I was generally annoyed with her before all of this happened but now it's more constant and it always comes back to what she did versus possible other underlying issues. I just don't know.
> 
> ...


I bolded the exact things that I felt. Many have been in the same boat.

I decided after one arguement after months of TT that I had failed. I kind of gave up on the whole idea of R. It was an epiphany of sorts.

What helped me? I stopped looking in the past, and started looking forward. I envisioned my new life without her.

I started saving for my new apartment. I window shopped a couple of dating sites just to "see" what my prospects would look like.

Guess what? The divorce idea started to look more appealing. I actually had to deal with *my* guilt in deciding it was a better option for me.

Several people that new the situation told me I was crazy for staying in the marriage. They finally made sense to me.

Whew! 23 years of being a dedicated husband just ended. Freedom from the WW started to feel great!

Moved out, dated, started having fun, and the divorce was not all that painful. Just a grind on the finances.

Fast forward - I am now 2 months into a new marriage. 

I sincerely hope my exW remarries. Seeing her (exW) with new boyfriends is NOT an issue. Lol! I actually pity some of them.

Sex is different for me. Great, but different. It is about the heart, love, and more than just getting off. It can be cRaZy wild, or just thoughtful. 

There were little triggers in the beginning. Not too hard to face when you are holding a beautiful, thoughtful new lover/wife. I actually felt so emotionally touched that I had tears in my eyes the second time I had sex with my new woman. Tears of joy. So much for my efforts to be more alpha. Lol!

In a nutshell, your life needs to begin with you deciding that it will be ok to move on. 

Your WW chose for herself, do NOT feel guilty about choosing what you want. It will be ok.

And I don't have to hate, or love my ex. Those feelings kind of go away on their own. 

Hope this helps. It helps me when I write it.


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

WonderHow said:


> So as a general question, do you think reconciliation is even possible? I know there are lots of stories of people who have successfully reconciled but what defines success? Did they have a stronger foundation of love before all this happened? Wired differently?


Absoutely. Reconciliation is possible; there are numerous people on this board and others who tout a stronger post-affair marriage. It's really up to you and I to decide if to reconcile, and if so, under what terms.

It appears there are some to whom adultery is just a deal-breaker and closes a door. I'm starting to think I'm one of those people. Only you can decide if you are.



WonderHow said:


> Also since this is a brain dump I'll go onto a bit of a tangent; is it odd that one of the reasons I don't want to end the marriage is that I think it would still kill me to see her with another man. Where's the logic in that.


I can't really relate to this. It's probably a good sign that you feel that way. My problem is that's what I see most of the time in my mind: her with another man. It's probably a bad sign for me that I don't really care anymore if she takes up with another man. I'm basically living silently in a permanent state of emotional withdrawal in a relationship based on economic and social ties, with no real intimacy. Sadly, I'm comfortable with that for now.

In my case, I went through a grueling two years of lying and gaslighting. Regardless of what she does now, I believe that was just too great a toll on our relationship. She emptied me out.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> I bolded the exact things that I felt. Many have been in the same boat.
> 
> I decided after one arguement after months of TT that I had failed. I kind of gave up on the whole idea of R. It was an epiphany of sorts.
> 
> ...


This is a very nice, very relevant post, in my opinion. LMT has found the real love and tenderness in his new marriage that was killed in his first. And isn't that what you want for yourself? The intimacy, tenderness and real feelings of love and caring and closeness for a woman?

You deserve that. I agree that it's very possible that focusing forward for yourself could help with the conflicting feelings you have about seeing your W with another man. You're in limbo right now. If you stay, you'll stay in that limbo.


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## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

WonderHow said:


> it’s the acceptance that this is what my life will be like unless I divorce and I just can’t imagine doing that to my babies.


this is exactly the dilema 'the children/kids/babies' but the point is SHE has already 'done that' to your babies when she dropped her pants. My wife was not thinking about our children when she invited POSOM to her hotel room - 5 days beforehand, and she was not thinking about our children when she spread her legs for him.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

WonderHow said:


> @JustGrinding yep sex and intimacy in general is totally changed now. You always hear about how women are the ones that get sex and emotions tied up but the same certainly applies for us dudes too. I went from as often as she would give it up to the once a week club.
> 
> I guess a big part of my struggle with stay vs. go is that I don't dislike my wife. Certainly I dislike what she did but I can tolerate her just fine. In fact we're very compatible on many levels. When I say I'm not "in love" it's more a matter of just not feeling that connection. It's almost like how I felt when I was generally annoyed with her before all of this happened but now it's more constant and it always comes back to what she did versus possible other underlying issues. I just don't know.
> 
> ...


The D rate for marriages with affairs is double that of a marriage without. You need to find happiness or it will impact you and your children. Maybe you should go to IC but you should tell your wife. She is the only one who can help you, if not then it is time to move on.

Your unhappiness will destroy you marriage and also your relationship with your children. Only R if you love you wife, no other reason.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

wonderhow, what was the other site that you were on?

How did you find out the affair?
What did you do when you found out?
How did the affair end?
What have you done to recover?

How long was the affair?
How long are you in recovery?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> This is a very nice, very relevant post, in my opinion. LMT has found the real love and tenderness in his new marriage that was killed in his first. And isn't that what you want for yourself? The intimacy, tenderness and real feelings of love and caring and closeness for a woman?
> 
> You deserve that. I agree that it's very possible that focusing forward for yourself could help with the conflicting feelings you have about seeing your W with another man. You're in limbo right now. If you stay, you'll stay in that limbo.


Thanks alte Dame! You are right on the mark.

I think the "limbo" state after an attempt at R may be as difficult as DD. DDay is almost surreal. DDay shock also passes much quicker. 

Limbo is a long, confusing time with seemingly endless self-evaluation and the "why" always eating at your soul.

Limbo ended for me when I finally accepted that my ex WW would never be what I deserved. Sounds vain, but it is true. It was about 8 months after DDay.

I now find myself wanting to encourage divorce more than reconcilation, especially for people such as _Wonder How _and _Just Grinding_. 

They would likely make great husbands to women that DESERVE it. There truly are some wonderful women and men that could use a good mate! 

I also thank the Heavens above for the opportunity I now have of starting over with a woman that I admire. The whole experience has taught me things I never would have learned otherwise.


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## WonderHow (Dec 17, 2012)

I'v often said that limbo is just as hard - if not harder - than the affair itself. I suppose it's the difference between getting punched in the nose versus having your balls slowly squeezed in a vice. They both suck in their own special way.

As far as deserving better? What does that really mean? This will sound really cynical, but I think that relying on anything external (a person, job, etc) as an entitlement / something you deserve, puts too much emphasis on that external thing. Maybe if I deserve a better situation I should make it? Maybe if I was committing myself more to my marriage at the moment - unsolicited ILYs, wearing my wedding ring again, making long term plans, etc, etc - I would have the marriage situation I deserve. 

On the other hand, I am also really confident that I could fall head-over-heels in love with someone else and go on to be much happier. But is that just because I am more committed? Is it because I don't feel like a chump for staying? 

I have to say I'm glad I came to this site though. It seems to be much more person-positive than marriage-positive and the perspective is super helpful. So thanks.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

WonderHow said:


> As far as deserving better? What does that really mean? This will sound really cynical, but I think that relying on anything external (a person, job, etc) as an entitlement / something you deserve, puts too much emphasis on that external thing.


This is true. When I threw out my husband on Dday, I had to realize how to be happy by myself before I knew whether I could be happy with him. I deserve to be happy, period. If that means staying with him even though he cheated, then I choose that. If it means divorcing him, then I choose that. Right now I choose to stay.


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