# big mess--long long post



## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

I am 44 and wife is 36. We have three children 7, 9, 11. We have been married for 12 years.

When we met it was a long distance relationship in military and divided by many states and miles for 2 years until we married and had our first child. 

I immediately failed in some ways like giving my wife adequate attention and help with kids (I don't think so but in retrospect if she thinks it then it is important to respond to).

For years we bounced between great happiness and average and apparently very rough times as accounted by my wife. When I look back it seemed somewhat ok. Guess that is because she was the one unhappy. We had very reasonable income and were able to do the things we wanted. She within a couple years wanted to stay home with the kids and was/is a fantastic mother. She then started getting very bored and hated the mundane of house. I had my own hobbies, one of which I was obsessed with and was trying to build a business around it to move into as a second career. She went through a very depressed period, which I didn't recognize and failed to adequately support. All along loving my wife, thinking she was beautiful and challenging and the greatest person in the world. 

I had a bad habit of alcohol use. Many or most days I would finish work and the things that had to get done at home and then open a bottle of wine for us both or start drinking beers. In retrospect it affected my ambitions, ability to focus on family and basically made me a bit lazy. I think it ultimately effected my mood and relationship too. I would stop drinking for months at a time but would always have it in my life.

In addition, I have had anger problems. Temper. The majority of the time I was very angry at myself. I had a counselor tell me I was not angry, he said I was frustrated and I think that is a better visual of what I did. But, there were some occurrences of things that clearly looked like rage to her and in retrospect they were ugly temper tantrums of selfish disappointment with myself.... I rarely was angry with my wife or the few friends I had but my wife is more sensitive the I realized and she was taking it as directed. Even when she would say that she recognizes it as non-directed it was very hard on her. Until recently that was very hard for me to understand.

A couple years ago I started into that second job. It was a big hit on our budget, there where lumps taken and we moved into a much bigger budgeted property to support the business. It was taxing on us. I had a significant event happen in the business and i saw my life long dream slipping, i went into depression and anger. My wife was feeling this tremendously and continued a process of mentally removing to save herself, as she puts it. She sought counseling and was medicated. She started to stabilize. In addition, she had gone back to school and was 2 years into a masters degree and had built a new network of friends.

At some point I felt the detachment start and she eventually had a single occurrence affair combined with a long term online distant emotional and sexual connection. That was 10 months ago and until recently continued. I saw enough on a phone bill that I started to question more and pushed her until she admitted what was happening, there are consequences now of my actions for sure. I have close friends who I talked to about the situations and of course they are mutual friends that has also created problems.

She until recently, 6 months, said I was the best lover she had been with and that she was satisfied sexually. But, then recently she indicated she wanted more adventure, porn, toys, others, controlled, fantasy etc. She claimed the affair was partially due to lack of pleasure...which again was against my perception and what she had said but her reality is the most important when it comes to her satisfaction. And, the reality for me is that when she is happy it brings me tremendous pleasure. We had a pretty mundane sexual life and I rapidly started exploring things to meet her needs and we were really getting into it a lot.

Early fall i had a mental break down. I met with several pastors and theropists in a very short period. I was medicated and started out of what my theropist has now defined as the tornado. I started seeing it from the outside instead of within and started making changes to better marriage, family and myself.

I started seeing a theropist this fall, we saw a couples counselor a couple times , then on to me individual and she didn't go. Then back to couples counseling recently. 

I get mixed signals, some times she wants it to work and a lot she says she wants to be free and on her on and feels suffocated. I work from the home and I am frantically trying to create space and failing. I am comfortable at home but recognize her need for independence and time in her own home without me. In the end I recognize giving her space and freedom is easy...if a divorce or separation where the end result then my time with her becomes infinitely separate. Why not give as much as possible now... 

She struggles with trust of me. I violated trust by checking on her calls. She holds that... As a matter a fact everything I do becomes targeted as intentional. I was whistling the other day and she said "that is funny my friend mentioned that song multiple times today on a call and now you are listening to it...did you listen in on my call?" I did not, and probably am technical enough to make that happen with significant effort ...which puts the thought there but it was innocent. 

In the past month or less since the elephant in the room was out. I should say I saw indications of the affair, extra gym effort, hiding the phone, detachment. But, I was in denial. It wasn't until recently she started doing odd things...like saying a dudes name in her sleep and twice during one sex session. When confronted she said he is a fantasy. I wanted to believe her and new we had made significant changes to our sex life and it made some sense to me. We had started exploring fantasy and I incorporated his name into an email fantasy we were developing. She is now saying that I knew who he was and was twisted enough to goof with her mind. I wasn't. I was trying to please her and build on her desire for a more exploring and open sex life. 

We had sex a couple few times after the openness a month ago. Her eyes were wide open no emotion like a corpse. The first time i immediately stopped. I told her in a discussion, that i was going to keep working at seducing her and keep trying to be with her. I thought that eventually, she would become numb to the occurrence and start to at least respond body wise. We discussed that we both suffer from sexual frustration and tension and that it is in our interest to go through the process. Three days ago we had sex and she responded and got into it, multiple orgasms, eyes closed in the moment and also looking into my eyes some. Then two nights ago I grabbed her as she came out of the bathroom and tried to be aggressive and stern...she has forced the issue with me being dominant and likes it...though a big dude, I am physically and emotionally passive. We would both define each other as me being emotional and her being more like the stereotypical man. Anyway, she responded oddly and that turned into "I don't want to feel guilt for not spreading my legs" I explained that I wanted her and that i wanted to keep pushing her but in any one instance if she doesn't want sex she sure shouldn't feel obligated or guilty. Today i sent her a couple texts about what i wanted to do to her and if she remembered doing something to me on sunday, as I thought it was pleasurable to her. I was trying to be playful and push the fantasy line a bit and build something up for her so that she might respond physically and enjoy something tonight or days from now. But, she responded with implying that I was sick because she had a relationship online and now i am trying to give her guilt for it. I wasn't. I told her if she needed it I would no longer show any desire for sex with her, she asked that I no longer approach her about sex, I am fine with that if it allows her to heal. I don't know how that will effect us and my hope is that she will come to me or heal. I recognize she may turn to someone else or may eventually leave and then heal later and then either come back or meet someone else. I can't control those things but I can do the things I need to such that she is respected by me.

My specific questions would be how to avoid or deflate conflict. I read a post the other day where someone said in response to a post like mine something like: you aren't going to learn from a book; yep i get that. Also, saw some real responses like; you screwed it up and now you want her back or if you really love her let her go; yep get that too. I am selfish I love her. I also hear her say positive things about a potential future. I am trying to expand on that vision we give each other occasionally, even as recently as 3 days ago.

What are the common situations after an affair or mental separation that are similar to this one and lessons for how to properly interact with her so she can heal. Specifically sexually.

When a couple has long term history of family and some good and some bad with trauma what lessons are there.

I understand this all seems bleak but I pray God will work within our lives to heal our marriage.

Things I have done to make myself better.
- established relationship with Christ
- Sought counseling
- reduced work stress
- reduced anger to pretty much nil
- sought anger management
- completely removed alcohol
- become much more tidy
- I seriously struggle to make and meet new people and friends as I work from the home and I am in an area I didn't grow up in so I don't have a network of friends and family.
- I am trying to be supportive of a life that looks more like her vision and altering big pieces of what used to be very important to me. She has one vision of finishing doctorate and working here but she has another of moving and one of moving over seas...my business was here. In the end it will all be for naught if my family comes apart. I can be happy with any number of careers in any number of locations. That is a big change on my part a far as what I am projecting because I was driven for work.
- I am trying to support her desire to be autonomous. I am not sure how to do that other than when she wants to go to a concert saying...I would love to go...."but me and the girls are going".....oh, well then you and the girls have fun.

There is so much more to this though like her control of her own money (she pays bills and controls checkbook) but she still put the money into a grinder that is driven by a couples desires and probably has guilt if she wants to plan something that only she cares about. Even when we buy groceries or when we go out. I don't overpower and control but I am now getting the since that she has guilt when she makes choices. How do I remove myself from the equations so she achieves greater happiness.....if we are to remain a couple and she is a happy half of that couple.

I look forward to advice, support or criticism. Thanks.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

So you are taking the blame for her two affairs because you accept the 'reality' of her feelings at the time?

Unhappiness or dissatisfaction in a relationship is not an excuse for your wife's choices. Did her cheating in any way help to resolve your issues as a couple? No...it was like pouring gasoline on a fire.

I'm afraid that by rushing to be supportive and understanding in what you believe is an honest effort to save your marriage, you are only setting yourself up for future failure and pain.

You are rugsweeping the tremendous damage she has done to your relationship.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I don't know where to begin with this...SHE says to YOU that she doesn't trust YOU??? WTH? She cheated yes? and you agree with her? Oh she is gooood.....she is very good at pulling the wool over your eyes.
She is the one not to be trusted. Do you know why she is saying that? To distract you from her affair she is currently having.

All points you have said spell that she is cheating on you still. She is a total mess! and you are falling for every word she says. You have to see that these little odd things she is telling you is because she is trying to make YOU look like the bad guy so she can go on justifying her affair!

You said, "But, she responded with implying that I was sick because she had a relationship online and now i am trying to give her guilt for it. I wasn't. I told her if she needed it I would no longer show any desire for sex with her, she asked that I no longer approach her about sex, I am fine with that if it allows her to heal. I don't know how that will effect us and my hope is that she will come to me or heal. I recognize she may turn to someone else or may eventually leave and then heal later and then either come back or meet someone else. I can't control those things but I can do the things I need to such that she is respected by me."

DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF??? Holy mackerel man! No wonder she's walking all over you! Allow HER to heal? How about this..she cheated on YOU! Where's your healing time? It's all about her?? Really? Do you really believe that when someone cheats, they are the ones who need all the attention and love? She's got you on a leash.

This is pathetic. I am sorry to tell you, but your W is going to continue to cheat until the cows come home. You are the ultimate doormat. I only say this to try and wake you up!

The only reason she is so paranoid is because she's hiding something. She doesn't want to have sex with you because she is having sex with someone or some people. It's plain as the nose on my face. Seriously man, I've lived with a serial cheater for 8 years. I know what I'm talking about. Get your head out of the sand and...

WAKE UP!


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Manwhoneedshelp.

Sit down, grab a glass of wine or a beer (it's okay). Clear your thoughts.

Open up what's about to come your way in regards to the help you need and LISTEN!!!

You're going to hear MANY MANY things you don't want to hear and you won't agree with (right now).

But it will be the help you NEED!!


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

" So you are taking the blame for her two affairs because you accept the 'reality' of her feelings at the time? "

I accept that she had quit the marriage and actually had full intention of divorce and that it might still be inevitable. I accept that she was hurting and made a very bad decision that has everlasting consequences. I accept this in the same way that my long term behavior was not acceptable and that I did long term possibly irrecoverable damage. We both behaved inappropriately...

Will she cheat again? Maybe not if we both are working towards a happy and fullfilling marriage. BUT, that is a state that seems a long ways away. Will I be a smothering or non-engaged angry man again....maybe BUT not if I want self happiness and my marriage to move forward.

I have started reading posts on this site and see a lot of the same responses and yes many men and women are habitual cheaters. I do appreciate the strong man talk as being a mat is not the best end to a situation, but tossing someone out might not be the best result either. If marriage was always non-reconcilable and everyone who cheated once...did it over and over then we would have no need to talk to others, have forums and have counselors. I am curious for people who have went through this the symptoms they have seen, how they coped, has anyone had a successful out come and what that looked like.

Whether she stays or leaves, I want to be happy. So taking steps to be independent is good either way. She wants space and for that to happen I need to build friendships, increase hobbies and get out of the house.

So yes, been trying to resolve and I am taking a lot of punishment and I understand that I need to stick up for myself. ...........So I think when she went to counseling before the only one night affair she was in the same mode...need to stick up for herself, no doormat and marriage over. What changed was my massive breakdown and counseling and she saw a change. That made her start back into the marriage a bit. On a side, I ordered the book recommended on this site for doormat men...actually it was highly recommended even for good marriages "The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011"; ordered it today. 

Thanks for the responses so far.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I am going to go back and read your post again as there was a lot of pretty hard to digest stuff in there, but in the meantime:

You need to get hold the the Married Man's Sex Life Primer now. If you have a Kindle or similar, download it.

You are making the mistake I did, except writ large and to an extent that I am shocked by.

Your wife is one of the most abusive spouses I have read about; the way in which she is emotionally and mentally abusing you will leave bigger scars that are harder to heal than all but the most Chris Brown like of physical beatings. She is not only treating you with utter contempt, I think she is getting off on it.

I doubt you will do this, but you need to commence a divorce and then see how clever she is about exploring her needs.

I say this in nearly every thread these days it seems,_* but you must be prepared to lose your marriage to save it.*_

Your wife will continue to act as she has been doing because she has been given no consequences for acting in such a revolting manner.


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

- Already ordered the book. 
- Not, willing to drink anymore, and like it. I have a peace about it.
- I am not afraid of divorce or to be alone. Do not like the idea of it but I am happy enough by myself or dating.


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

Chris 989 is your story posted on this site.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi, it's in my signature, but here it is anyway:

http://tinyurl.com/ivebeenamug

That was just the beginning and things have move on a lot. We are still living together but now divorced. My wife does what I want when I want her to (although I don't order her around, it's just that she wants to be like that for me now.)


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

Saw it, got it thanks. Reluctant to click on stuff that isn't clear where I am headed....as in the tinyurl link.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

manwhoneedshelp said:


> Saw it, got it thanks. Reluctant to click on stuff that isn't clear where I am headed....as in the tinyurl link.


Ah. Good point that. Here is the long link for the record:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ng-out-really-struggling-long.html#post878589


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Okay, I'll run with you on your contribution to the breakdown in your relationship. But look at what is going on...

She wants more adventure from you in the bedroom, then guilt trips you and lays like a corpse during sex?

She gets what she puts in. You my friend are being set up to fail.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm sorry that I came across very angry, but your thread kind of infuriates me. Mostly your W's cake eating tendencies, and your lack of awareness.

I currently am with the man that used to treat me like a doormat. But not because I have been a "Great Spouse to him". I am a good wife, but to tell you the truth. Being a great spouse by letting him have his freedom, giving him everything to make him comfortable never got me anywhere with him. He continued to walk all over me. And I see this happening with you as well.

I know it seems that overcompensating for your W's lack of respect for you is the right thing to do right now..but in time you will see that she will become a monster. 

There are some Huge Red Flags in your thread such as; she is talking about wanting freedom, she's not wanting to have sex, she has cheated twice? Is that right?

Here's what you wrote: "She struggles with trust of me. I violated trust by checking on her calls." *RED FLAG*

"I was whistling the other day and she said "that is funny my friend mentioned that song multiple times today on a call and now you are listening to it...did you listen in on my call?" *RED FLAG* 

"In the past month or less since the elephant in the room was out. I should say I saw indications of the affair, extra gym effort, hiding the phone, detachment." **A month ago you saw these signs?**

"It wasn't until recently she started doing odd things...like saying a dudes name in her sleep and twice during one sex session. When confronted she said he is a fantasy. I wanted to believe her and new we had made significant changes to our sex life and it made some sense to me. We had started exploring fantasy and I incorporated his name into an email fantasy we were developing. She is now saying that I knew who he was and was twisted enough to goof with her mind. I wasn't. I was trying to please her and build on her desire for a more exploring and open sex life." *RED FLAG*

**She was saying a man's name while having sex with you not because he's make believe, but because she's been cheating on you with this guy** **So she admitted that this was a real guy by saying you knew who he was and you were just playing mind games with her....Did you know that this is a real guy or no??**


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

MWNH

You both contributed to issues in the marriage. But the affair is solely on your wife.

She could have separated from you. She could have divorced you.

And from what you have shared with us it sounds very much like your wife is still having an Affair.

Can you tell us who she was cheating with? And what you did to put a stop to her Affair/s.

HM64


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

Yep. So she started into an online affair. Physical in summer 2012. Then maintained contact with him until 30 days ago. After, the affair sex got beyond good (psych's have told me that is somewhat normal following an affair) and wife told me point blank our marriage was in trouble and she was walking out and sex was only physical and relationship in dire straights. That is what triggered the breakdown and counseling. Then, about a month ago, she admitted to the summer affair and we started into couples counseling, it was after the admission that sex got goofy. The guilt then set in and we had massive open talks. The other thing that she said is there was no love, all physical and all mental physical. She was using it as an escape and to keep me at a mental distance. I think her intent was to finish school and then divorce. May still happen, which is fine as I don't get to pick that. But, until then I am going to do the things I can to be happy and try to rebuild trust and a marriage. If she doesn't come along she is eventually going to go anyway.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

She is still in an affair.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Your marriage, and your contributions to it, may have not been what they should, but the choice to cheat is all hers. HERS. You did not 'make' her cheat. You did NOT cause her cheating. The state of the marriage is partly on you, but her cheating is 100% on her. You must NEVER take ANY blame for her cheating.

Secondly, if you want your wife to respect you, start holding her accountable for her actions. Allowing her to call the shots - ANY shots - after she's cheated is lowering her respect for you.

You MUST be willing to end the marriage in order to save it. You must.

Until you understand these truths, there's not much more to say.


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

HM64 ....in the summer she mentally separated, met with a lawyer and used the affair to peel off the remainder of her love and connection to me. The dude was 1500 miles away and was a friend of a friend she had met.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Have you ever read "The Married Man's Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay.

ANd you are right.

You cannot control your wife or her actions but you can fix you and work to make your future better. If she wants to join you then great.

But by your wife stepping out for those months and lying to you she has shown you one side of her.

She is selfish. And she is a coward.

You have to take that into consideration.

When she admitted to the affair did you do anything to stop it, prevent it from going further?

Did she tell you who she was screwing?

Was the OM married too?


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

manwhoneedshelp said:


> I am 44 and wife is 36. We have three children 7, 9, 11. We have been married for 12 years.
> 
> When we met it was a long distance relationship in military and divided by many states and miles for 2 years until we married and had our first child.
> 
> ...


That's going to mess with your sexual drive and desire. Along with that self confidence in the act.


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

Somethingelse

Ok so I recognize the red flag issues. That is why I put them in the post. So here is a direct question that would go along with them. When a person cheats and the guilt starts building in, is there a natural tendency for them to deflect blame. And, how can couples who are reconciling work through it. I recognize these items as Red Flags....how then do we work together to identify this to her.


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

I really struggled with where to start this thread. In the reconcile section, divorce, addiction, crappy husband, crappy wife section. I see everyone here focused on the cheat...yep it happened, yep it sucks and yes she may still be doing it. But, there are a plethora of issues here too... Thanks again for the input!


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

Daddylongshanks. yep for sure. 

Hope1964

Yes i agree with what you are saying. The key here is she was done. In her mind she was already gone but had to work through the logistical details. I don't take blame myself for the actual affair, but I do blame myself for my actions that created the state that led to her mental separation. I view the affair as just a symptom and a really hurtful and bad decision by her. In the whole marriage if it works it might be minor. If it doesn't it might be huge. 

Here is the big one... I have seen this elsewhere on this forum. Can you explain.

"You MUST be willing to end the marriage in order to save it. You must." 

Are you implying if I throw a fit and kick her out, get a lawyer and start divorce actions she will then become submissive and grovel? That sure isn't going to happen 

If you are saying until in my mind I could care less if she stays or goes and divorce is on the table then yep. We are both there. I am not begging her or groveling to her as ugly as the initial post looks. I recognize most of those things as really messed up and think she needs some serious help, but the question is can she sort out what is real and the image she has created in her mind of me and transition back to something that doesn't create chaos.


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

Chris989...she may be still in an affair. But if that is the case she is going to walk out when she graduates and gets a job. Can't worry my head over it. Not going to stare at the phone bill, or track her texts, or put a gps on her car. If she wants to be with another man no matter how much monitoring I do will not stop it and worrying about it will just make me crazy.


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## manwhoneedshelp (Apr 18, 2013)

happyman64,

YES!

Know who he is. Yes, she took actions to give me confidence. Like offering for me to see her electronics, told me to call him. Told her she was selfish and a coward and she agrees. We have talked a bit about that.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

You might be able to save this if you stop the affair. If you aren't bothered then divorce her and move on. Would save a lot of time and trouble.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

You read my story. I went to confront the OM. It stopped the affair. I threatened to cost him money in court. He didn't even try to contact my wife again.

You owe it to yourself to try. You have nothing to lose; your self esteem has already gone and your wife too.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

manwhoneedshelp said:


> Somethingelse
> Ok so I recognize the red flag issues. That is why I put them in the post. So here is a direct question that would go along with them. When a person cheats and the guilt starts building in, is there a natural tendency for them to deflect blame.


Yes, a person who does not want to talk about their affair will try to deflect blame onto the betrayed spouse. They do feel guilty, and want to lessen that guilt by trying to make BS take some responsibility.....but in your case she is fully deflecting blame onto you. 

There is a point where your W has to acknowledge that she is wrong. She has shown absolutely no remorse. This is dangerous territory you are in. Where there is no remorse, there will continue to be issues with her. With cheating or with plain disrespect. Or both. 



manwhoneedshelp said:


> And, how can couples who are reconciling work through it.


You currently are not in reconciliation. You are in False Reconciliation. She is not remorseful, she deflects blame onto you. She is dreaming about another man and most likely still sleeping with him. You are accepting it. Right now she is cake eating. She has no intention on reconciliation. You are, she isn't. 



manwhoneedshelp said:


> I recognize these items as Red Flags....how then do we work together to identify this to her.


The only identifying you need to do, is place D papers in front of her. I know it sounds insane, but it is necessary in order to get her to snap out of her little fantasy island. If you want her to see that what she is doing is not tolerable, then that is the way to do it. 

You have to see that she is using the crap out of you. She is selfish and self centred. She is most likely still having an A, because you have been WAY too accepting of this. You have shown her that it's ok to cheat. 

In essence, she is interpreting this situation as;; You have taken all the blame willingly, therefore you are wrong, she is right. Therefore, her cheating is justified. She can cheat, because you are to blame. Period. She will not change until she sees that you are a bull, that you do not tolerate Bull Crap like this, that you Sir are not to blame, and she is WRONG.

The only thing I blame you for manwhoneedshelp, is that you have allowed this to go on this long without giving her repercussions.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Okay man I really reading this. This reeks of bad counciling and over therapy. I mean I cannot believe you would have reached these conclusions about your marriage. 

one ) you snooped and caught your wife cheating. THAT IS BREAKING TRUST. If you are married you have a right to look through your wife's bill because you share everything with this woman. Money, kids, life, bills, and everything else. If you are married there is no real need for privacy since you should trust each other enough that you don't have to keep secrets. 
So instead of getting pissed off you take blame for finding out your wife was screwing around you you. AND YOU FALL for that. IT is all lies and manipulations. You have lied down for so long and you are so repressed that you have lost yourself. 

I mean this whole post is how can I do more for my wife how cheated on me. Than it is HOW can I end this affair and save my marriage. You have let this woman control you. 
I mean seriously YOUR WIFE CHEATED SHE DID you made some mistakes BUT DID YOU GET INVOLVED WITH SOMEONE ELSE........ NO
But she does and then makes you feel guilty for finding out about it. Man.... I just don't have words to tell you how ANGRY you should be. How outraged you should be. You should be going through everything because she doesn't deserve privacy because she has broken your trust. 

IF she really wanted out she could have divorced you and then done whatever she wanted to. The truth is she is using your for your wallet and if likely still having an affair. 

How do i know? You are doing everything to facilitate her affair. 
YOu have not demanded her be faithful instead you tried to become someone else. Do You wand to live your life as somoneelse and act like someone else???? NO you don't.

Some where you lost your self respect. Probably because this woman has been beating you down. A married woman should be faithful to her husband and her husband only.
You have got to focus on yourself. You need to get your head unwrapped around this womans finger. You need to start demanding that your wife stay within your marriage.
You need to start Demanding your wife work around some of your need for a change. You should look up the term codependent. Because your story points directly to that type of relationship and it is not a good relationship.

If you want to save your marriage. You need to start looking at phone record, emails, facebook accounts, and if she objects tell her that "We are married and there are no need for secrets unless you are doing something you know I wouldn't approve of. " 

You have a lot of work ahead of you in working on yourself. Because you are being used.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

manwhoneedshelp said:


> happyman64,
> 
> YES!
> 
> Know who he is. Yes, she took actions to give me confidence. Like offering for me to see her electronics, told me to call him. Told her she was selfish and a coward and she agrees. We have talked a bit about that.


So did you call him?

Did you call his wife?

Did you put conditions / boundaries in place so that if she starts lying and cheating again that she would face consequences???

And talking is real good. Communication is key. But as you have learned you wife is a liar and a cheat.

So you have to judge her and her remorsefulness by her actions......


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

manwhoneedshelp said:


> Yep. So she started into an online affair. Physical in summer 2012. Then maintained contact with him until 30 days ago. After, the affair sex got beyond good (psych's have told me that is somewhat normal following an affair) and wife told me point blank our marriage was in trouble and she was walking out and sex was only physical and relationship in dire straights. That is what triggered the breakdown and counseling. Then, about a month ago, she admitted to the summer affair and we started into couples counseling, it was after the admission that sex got goofy. The guilt then set in and we had massive open talks. The other thing that she said is there was no love, all physical and all mental physical. She was using it as an escape and to keep me at a mental distance. I think her intent was to finish school and then divorce. May still happen, which is fine as I don't get to pick that. But, until then I am going to do the things I can to be happy and *try to rebuild trust and a marriage*. If she doesn't come along she is eventually going to go anyway.


Why are you rebuilding trust...she cheated on you no? Is this bizarro world where she cheats and you get to fix the marriage and rebuild her trust in you? I'm baffled..


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

manwhoneedshelp said:


> I really struggled with where to start this thread. In the reconcile section, divorce, addiction, crappy husband, crappy wife section. I see everyone here focused on the cheat...yep it happened, yep it sucks and yes she may still be doing it. But, there are a plethora of issues here too... Thanks again for the input!


MWNH

The only reason we focus on the infidelity is because of the active red flags.

Most of us on TAM have learned one or two things. 

As long as your spouse is engaged in infidelity there is no working on the marriage.

It takes two to fix a marriage. And both spouses need to be fully focused on themselves, each other and the marriage. If either spouse cannot due that ( infidelity/personal issues) then the one spouse working on the marriage is wasting their time. They are better off working on on their personal issues.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

The blameshifting by the wayward spouse is bad enough.

But, the self-loathing required to take this all on yourself is a big red flag.

Are you in counseling with a psychotherapist?

Pastors are helpful, but there are childhood issues at work here - both yours and hers.

If you don't get to the bottom of both, the prognosis is poor.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

You may see a plethora or issues in your marriage as you stated. 

However, you cannot begin to work on any of them as long as she is still in the affair. 

You MUST focus first on blowing the affair up and ending it before you can work on anything else in the relationship.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

There is a lot going on here but my simple mind senses the betrayed getting strong along by the wayward?

Maybe its me, but your chick has you right were she wants you!


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Are you financing her education? What is she doing to to rebuild trust- being transparent, going to counseling, reading books? Anything? It sounds like it is all on you to not only fix the marriage, but to take blame for all her indiscretions.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Checking up to catch your spouse cheatng on you is in no way violating her trust, and she is playing you with such foolish ideas.

In marriage there is no privacy to have secret relationships with others. This is what your wife doing on you. She has you believing she should be given full privacy, so she can have affairs.

She's obviously still in an affair and that is why she's hot and cold about the sex. She may have either met up with him that day and ea carrying him inside her, OR, she was meeting him that day or next day and she wanted to be clean for him. 

But my instincts say she's still actively cheating on you.

Find the affair and break it up, that's the only path to fixing your marrage because she will never actually work on the marriage while she's actively cheating,

She must have a lot of private secret time that allowed her to have an affair with a guy so far away.

Have you exposed the guy to his wife or gf where he lives?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife is the one that's cheated twice now, and even likely is still cheatng. Why are you the one jumping through hoops, making changes, and feeling guilty for taking action to uncover her affair?


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