# He says he wants divorce, I don't think he does and I sure don't



## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

It's been several months since I've been on the forum. Some on here may recognize me. My marital issues started to escalate back in September when my husband moved from our room to the guest room. Fast forward to December and I discover he'd had an affair. Right after Christmas I moved back home with my daughter because I had no where else to go, so we are separated, emotionally and psychically by 600 miles. I didn't want to leave, I told him I wanted to stay and work it out, he said he needed time and space to think so I left with our daughter and went back home to the northwest.

He's visited roughly once a month since I've been here. It's been five months since I left. Now it's gotten to the point where he doesn't speak to me at all unless it's to find out what time he can call our daughter. I don't want a divorce and I've told him so. He said he doesn't see any other solution, but we have not done everything possible to try and save our marriage. I can't move on, either with him or without him, without knowing we tried everything possible to fix this. I'm still in love with him. He says he loves me but isn't in love. I don't feel this is true, or if it is, that it isn't a permanent thing. I feel that he isn't in love with me all the time. That's understandable because I feel that way too sometimes. But I AM in love with him and I want to make our marriage work.

I had recently discovered he'd been inappropriate with numerous friends of mine, not sexually mind you, but just inappropriate for someone who's in a relationship. This had evidently been going on for about 11 of our 12 year relationship (married for almost 9 years now). He admitted to his family he ****ed up big time and doesn't think he can fix it. He tells them that but tells me he doesn't see any other way to fix this except with divorce but he's been threatening that with me for over a year! If he wanted a divorce he'd have filed by now and been done with it.

I don't want a divorce and I wont' file. Our daughter is heartbroken. I asked her if she ever had to choose who she'd want to live with between myself and her dad she said both. There was no hesitation whatsoever. 

Any advice is appreciated. No rude or nasty comments please.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

fallen22 said:


> It's been several months since I've been on the forum. Some on here may recognize me. My marital issues started to escalate back in September when my husband moved from our room to the guest room. Fast forward to December and I discover he'd had an affair. Right after Christmas I moved back home with my daughter because I had no where else to go, so we are separated, emotionally and psychically by 600 miles. I didn't want to leave, I told him I wanted to stay and work it out, he said he needed time and space to think so I left with our daughter and went back home to the northwest.
> 
> He's visited roughly once a month since I've been here. It's been five months since I left. Now it's gotten to the point where he doesn't speak to me at all unless it's to find out what time he can call our daughter. I don't want a divorce and I've told him so. He said he doesn't see any other solution, but we have not done everything possible to try and save our marriage. I can't move on, either with him or without him, without knowing we tried everything possible to fix this. I'm still in love with him. He says he loves me but isn't in love. I don't feel this is true, or if it is, that it isn't a permanent thing. I feel that he isn't in love with me all the time. That's understandable because I feel that way too sometimes. But I AM in love with him and I want to make our marriage work.
> 
> ...


He is actually being relatively decent for an admitted cheater. I would bet he took the affair under ground...OR he did end it and is ashamed, but knows he is not cut out and too flawed to watch your pain. He is allowing you to heal unfettered with his moral dysfunction. 

If he is still in the affair he may want to end things with you before taking up with her officially. Maybe he wants you to be super nice in the divorce (i dont know) But if he is still involved in the affair its a safe bet that he would want a divorce. 

Now if he is not maybe he actually gets he is narcissistic and too selfish to help you process his actions. 

I hope i wasnt nasty...Things can get that way here. But read the advice and take what you need away. You dont need to agree.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> It's been several months since I've been on the forum. Some on here may recognize me. My marital issues started to escalate back in September when my husband moved from our room to the guest room. Fast forward to December and I discover he'd had an affair. Right after Christmas I moved back home with my daughter because I had no where else to go, so we are separated, emotionally and psychically by 600 miles. I didn't want to leave, I told him I wanted to stay and work it out, he said he needed time and space to think so I left with our daughter and went back home to the northwest.
> 
> He's visited roughly once a month since I've been here. It's been five months since I left. Now it's gotten to the point where he doesn't speak to me at all unless it's to find out what time he can call our daughter. I don't want a divorce and I've told him so. He said he doesn't see any other solution, but we have not done everything possible to try and save our marriage. I can't move on, either with him or without him, without knowing we tried everything possible to fix this. I'm still in love with him. He says he loves me but isn't in love. I don't feel this is true, or if it is, that it isn't a permanent thing. I feel that he isn't in love with me all the time. That's understandable because I feel that way too sometimes. But I AM in love with him and I want to make our marriage work.
> 
> ...


Get on with your life. Go back to being the interesting and vivacious woman you were before you married him.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Any man who could go seeing his child just once a month is not worth fighting for. Do you want to hear sweet words or the truth? Move on.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I am truly sorry this is happening to you. 

If he doesn't file and you don't want to end the marriage, then wait it out. How are you dealing with finances?

Seeing your daughter once a month is not good for his relationship with her. He says he loves you but is not in love with you. 

You know that's the speech. He loves you as a sister or a close relative. Is that good enough for you? He doesn't want to work on the marriage for whatever reason. You can't force that dear. 

It has been 5 months. What is it that *you* want that* is* *possible* at this time?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Your playing the waiting game as many of us have done and it's usually the worst approach as many have learned the hard way. He has learned to live the single life. It's also rare the wayward files for divorce. He has no incentive to do it. You have tolerated the current situation so he has no reason to change his behaviors.

You want to try "everything", you can't because he doesn't want to. What he is telling your family is lip service as he has no willingness to address the problems. 

You need to file, he won't and you need to start the clock on ending your own limbo. Either he will realize the marriage is worth trying to save or he wont. You not filing only let's him not make decisions, your not going anywhere so he doesn't need to.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

richie33 said:


> Any man who could go seeing his child just once a month is not worth fighting for. Do you want to hear sweet words or the truth? Move on.


They are separated by 600 miles so that has to be taken into account, he likely has a job he can't leave and other responsibilities. It was her who relocated causing it (she had nowhere else to go so I get it). I would bet the separation is very tough on him.

That said OP I feel for you, the feeling of loving someone and not having that returned, especially after years of being a family is worse than anything I can think of.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> That said OP I feel for you, the feeling of loving someone and not having that returned, especially after years of being a family is worse than anything I can think of.


Yup, limbo socks rocks!


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

knobcreek said:


> They are separated by 600 miles so that has to be taken into account, he likely has a job he can't leave and other responsibilities. It was her who relocated causing it (she had nowhere else to go so I get it). I would bet the separation is very tough on him.
> 
> That said OP I feel for you, the feeling of loving someone and not having that returned, especially after years of being a family is worse than anything I can think of.


By her account he just let her leave. As a parent you have a say in where your child lives. I would never allowed that.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

richie33 said:


> By her account he just let her leave. As a parent you have a say in where your child lives. I would never allowed that.


I completely agree with richie33 here. He can't say he doesn't love his daughter, but his actions don't correlate with this. Him letting them live so far away was very telling and convenient for him as well. 

He can start new without any emotional responsibilities, maybe even no financial responsibilities as well. 

I wonder if he pays all of their bills including rent for their separate housing arrangement? Does fallen still have access to his money or has this changed to his benefit too?


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

richie33 said:


> By her account he just let her leave. As a parent you have a say in where your child lives. I would never allowed that.


The wife had no money, she had nowhere to stay, he may be transferring and looking for work to be closer, life's hard, not everyone has the means to simply pick up and split a household and keep everything stable.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> The wife had no money, she had nowhere to stay, he may be transferring and looking for work to be closer, life's hard, not everyone has the means to simply pick up and split a household and keep everything stable.


We probably need more feedback from Fallen in regards to husband being financially responsible or not. Him sending then off to live with her family is not helping. He is far more detached emotionally as well as distance wise from both of them. Is it any wonder he doesn't love her anymore like a husband should love his wife?


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

I don't want to address each of you individually so I'll do my best so answer the unknown here. Yes, I still have access to OUR bank account. I use it rarely. I am working as an office manager for my cousins body shop. My family has helped me tremendously. Yes, he did ask me to leave. I had initially agreed it was for the best and a few days had passed and I told him I did not want to go, as I couldn't understand how we could fix anything if I did so. I have not been back to Nevada since I left in January. 
@Bibi1031, what I want right now that is possible is to just try and be as happy as I can. I'm so tired of crying. Every time he'd come up for a visit I of course being so stinking weak and naive, wanted to be intimate with him because I miss him and love him terribly and every time he'd leave and go back to Nevada we'd fight terribly. It has gotten to the point where we barely speak. I mean like once a week we might speak, and it's just a few words. He doesn't contact me except to ask when he can call our daughter. That is it. 
@knobcreek...yes I had no where else to go but back to Montana. I have no family anywhere else. I lived in Nevada with my husband because I am his wife and I of course go where he goes. He is an engineer and has absolutely no intentions of leaving his job, even though before I left to come to Montana he told me after we get this all sorted out we'd leave and never go back. So much for that I guess.

Yes, he still pays all the bills, I cover my student loans and other expenses here. I am living with my mom (yes, it sucks) but I had no where else to go. So I have no rent at the moment. I literally get sick at the thought of filing for divorce, but I almost feel like I have no other choice at this point. My cousin, who I mentioned I work for, has offered to take me to Nevada with his truck and trailer to get all of mine and my daughters things. Should that be done before or after filing for divorce, if in fact I can actually get myself to do it?

He told his dad he ****ed up royally and didn't know if he could still fix it, but then he tells me the exact opposite, such as "I'm done and I don't see what else to do than file for divorce". But he tells his family he wants it to work and misses his family. I have figured out right quick and in a hurry that he is a narcissist to the tee. I'm torn, it's not so easy to just walk away from a 12 year relationship and an almost 9 year marriage, especially with a 7 year old little girl who adores her father.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

If he is NPD then he is incapable of true love towards you or his daughter. You will need to hold him accountable I'm afraid. You need to file for divorce and get a good lawyer and lawyer up. 

At least get the ball rolling, you don't have to go through with the divorce, but do this before you go and get your things in Nevada.

He is trying to play the nice guy in front of his family, but shows his true colors with you!

I'm sorry you have been deceived by him. Don't hesitate, run as far away from him as you can. You are of no use to him anymore. He will only hurt you. 

Seek counseling for you and your precious little girl. Stay where you have support. I'm glad your mom is willing to have you there, but I'm sure she could use help with the bills and other things too. Make your husband accountable for HIS daughter's well being.
@Uptown is a great source in regards to PD. He can help you find resources when dealing with a spouse that is ill like yours.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

fallen22 said:


> I have figured out right quick and in a hurry that he is a narcissist to the tee.


Fallen, I agree with @*Bibi1031* that, if your H were a full-blown narcissist, he would be _"incapable of true love towards you or his daughter."_ This is not what you're describing. On the contrary, you say he loves you but "he isn't in love with me all the time."

If you feel comfortable doing so, please tell us what his "inappropriate behavior" was with your female friends. You only say that it was nonsexual but it went on for 11 years.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@Uptown. I don't know if he's a full blown narcissist but he definitely is to some degree. He says he cares for me and will always love me but isn't in love with me. 

He has been messaging my close friends for years, asking them relationship advice (which is fine, no harm there) but he has also asked them if he can send them photos of his penis to see if they think it is good enough and has asked them for photos in return. They had all refused and never said anything to me, especially after we married because they all thought everything was ok. Then I guess it had all started up again so they all started ignoring him. I found out that five more girls had been affected by this behavior as well, during our college years, which was not all that long ago. They never said anything to me because they didn't want to hurt me and all of them ceased contact with him. 

He's lost almost everyone, including friends. His dad is unbelievably disappointed in him and his mom barely speaks to him. His sister is about all he has right now as far as I can tell because she is spun of the same tainted cloth as he is. She's a real piece of work I tell ya, but I'm not even gonna get into that mess.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe he's telling his family what he thinks they want to hear. Maybe he wants you to file because he doesn't want to look like the bad guy. Who knows what he's thinking. But he's obviously not interested in working on your marriage now. Will he some day decide to work on it? Maybe. But who knows when or if that will ever happen. Meanwhile your life is on hold. 

You have two choices: live in limbo (never a good place to be) or take charge of your life and move on.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You realize he's probably still cheating, right? And now he can justify it by saying you're separated. Stop having sex with him because who knows who he's having sex with and what you may be exposing yourself to.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Another thing -- he was obviously grooming your friends by asking for relationship advice which then led to asking if he could send penis pictures to see if it was good enough. Like he has any doubt it is. Shaking my head. All of that was obviously so he could advance to the next level with them. It would have been helpful had they told you then and maybe you wouldn't have married him but they didn't so all you can do is fix the situation that exists now.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> @Uptown. I don't know if he's a full blown narcissist but he definitely is to some degree. He says he cares for me and will always love me but isn't in love with me.
> 
> He has been messaging my close friends for years, asking them relationship advice (which is fine, no harm there) but he has also asked them if he can send them photos of his penis to see if they think it is good enough and has asked them for photos in return. They had all refused and never said anything to me, especially after we married because they all thought everything was ok. Then I guess it had all started up again so they all started ignoring him. I found out that five more girls had been affected by this behavior as well, during our college years, which was not all that long ago. They never said anything to me because they didn't want to hurt me and all of them ceased contact with him.
> 
> He's lost almost everyone, including friends. His dad is unbelievably disappointed in him and his mom barely speaks to him. His sister is about all he has right now as far as I can tell because she is spun of the same tainted cloth as he is. She's a real piece of work I tell ya, but I'm not even gonna get into that mess.


You really need to work on yourself and quit being so co-dependent, it's not healthy in the least. I know, I was there and it took me many months to overcome it.

You've been in denial for long enough, why do you wish to continue down this lonely road? It's time to pick yourself up, dust off and get your life going in the right direction. 

Read what you just wrote, do you really want him back? I mean seriously? That is a huge level of disrespect that he's been dealing out to you for a long time, like your whole life together.

This is a blessing in disguise, see it for what it really is, be in control. 

Get out of this sad state you've found yourself in and go live life, you owe it to yourself. Go meet new people, take up some hobbies, have some fun!


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

I'm not financially stable. There's not much I can do right now except stay where I am. I am working yes, but it's for less than minimum wage. I make enough to pay my student loans and car payment. 

I have hobbies but can't get into them like I used to. I'm bored with them. I love to travel but I don't have the means to do that right now.
@Openminded, no I don't want to stay in limbo, I've been there long enough. I'm the only one trying. He calls our daughter once a day (most times) and talks to her for just a few minutes. I listen to the conversations, and its the same thing over and over. It always ends with I love you so much, etc. She is 7. She has told him a few times she wants our family back together and that she wants me and him to work it out. All he says to her is I know, that's it. And that's his go to answer for everything. 

Yes I do realize he could still be cheating but I don't think he is. I don't have that sick feeling in my gut like I did the firs time. But I could very well be wrong. God, I've thought of doing the the same thing just to get back at him but I couldn't live with the guilt. I'm terribly lonely, he's been by my side for 12 years and then one day he was just gone. It's worse than death.....

I'm told I should file for divorce and then I'm told no let him he wants this. I have no way of paying for a lawyer at this point, so unless he files I'm still stuck.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

fallen22 said:


> He has also asked them if he can send them photos of his penis to see if they think it is good enough and has asked them for photos in return.... I found out that five more girls had been affected by this behavior as well, during our college years, which was not all that long ago.


Fallen, yes, I agree that you are now describing symptoms for narcissism. I caution that NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) traits are not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, these symptoms constitute a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all NPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits NPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the NPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong NPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. 

Strictly speaking, the attention seeking and provocative behaviors you describe are warning signs for *Histrionic PD*. Like NPD, HPD is one of the four personality disorders referred to as the "Cluster B" disorders. (These four disorders -- also called the "Dramatic PDs -- include BPD and ASPD as well.) Since 2012, I've been thinking of HPD as a subcategory of NPD. The American Psychiatric Community still seems to be on a path to eliminate HPD as a separate category and to include it as an exhibitionistic attention-seeking subtype of NPD. 

This consolidation would allow what they call the current 'grandiose male-dominated' NPD to be supplemented by a more female-dominated attention-seeking subtype, described by a behavior pattern of (1) explicit attention-seeking; (2) outer-directedness; (3) self-dramatization; (4) dependency on others' attention; (5) presentation of self through sexualized means; and (6) easily emotionally triggered. Although HPD primarily overlaps with NPD, to a lesser extent it also overlaps with BPD. For more explanation, see Charles Pull's discussion at *MedScape*.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> I'm not financially stable. There's not much I can do right now except stay where I am. I am working yes, but it's for less than minimum wage. I make enough to pay my student loans and car payment.
> 
> I have hobbies but can't get into them like I used to. I'm bored with them. I love to travel but I don't have the means to do that right now.
> 
> ...


In your original thread, that has since been deleted, you painted a different picture than what's contained in the information you now share. Unfortunately, you never really knew him, you had blinders on.

You are absolutely right on, with that ugly feeling of betrayal, it's the worst. But why not take advantage of it, let the old you die, and be reborn, like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. It's only sad and gloomy if you let it, take control and become the best you, live life to it's fullest. 

As Chuck Swindoll says, "Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react." So fix your attitude, stop wasting time, look into getting a better job, starting a career. The opportunities are there waiting for you, you just have to pull yourself up and go find them. Get involved locally, meet new people, start new hobbies, read some self help books and just as important, fix your man picker. It's a tough pill to swallow knowing that he wasn't at all who you thought he was, I went through the same thing with my STBXW. 

It'll get better, just keep swimming! :grin2:


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

I shared some of this information ya'll have shared with my MIL. She doesn't think the NPD fits him but I do and I have for a while. That being said, she still agrees wholeheartedly with me that he needs professional help and has ****ed everything up. I was no angle when our marriage first started, I had many problems. Hormonal imbalance, PPD, thyroid malfunction, etc. It took a toll on me and him and he hasn't been able to forgive me for it, even though they were all medically treatable once I got to the right doctor and mindset.

It's funny how I can forgive him for years of sneaking behind my back talking to friends in ways he shouldn't have been and having an affair but he continually brings up my past mistakes.....meh.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Do you mean postpartum depression or Paranoid Personality Disorder?

It looks like you are getting into the anger stage. Try to use that to channel your progress forward. You need that anger to stop crying and wanting this man as he is right now.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fallen22 said:


> I shared some of this information ya'll have shared with my MIL. She doesn't think the NPD fits him but I do and I have for a while. That being said, she still agrees wholeheartedly with me that he needs professional help and has ****ed everything up. I was no angle when our marriage first started, I had many problems. Hormonal imbalance, PPD, thyroid malfunction, etc. It took a toll on me and him and he hasn't been able to forgive me for it, even though they were all medically treatable once I got to the right doctor and mindset.
> 
> It's funny how I can forgive him for years of sneaking behind my back talking to friends in ways he shouldn't have been and having an affair but he continually brings up my past mistakes.....meh.


At this point, the WHY of his behavior is irrelevant. The facts are that he doesn't love you, respect you, or wish to be with you, and has done the ultimate betrayal of choosing other women over you. Time to take your dignity and your life back, and file. You do your child no favors staying married to a man like this. I understand you are struggling financially, but you can do this. (I have been there, done that) NO MAN is worth this.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> At this point, the WHY of his behavior is irrelevant. The facts are that he doesn't love you, respect you, or wish to be with you, and has done the ultimate betrayal of choosing other women over you. Time to take your dignity and your life back, and file. You do your child no favors staying married to a man like this. I understand you are struggling financially, but you can do this. (I have been there, done that) NO MAN is worth this.


Or no woman, for that matter, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Slow Hand said:


> Or no woman, for that matter, lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So true!!


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@Bibi1031, I meant Post partum depression. And yes I am very angry. I'm also bitter. During lunch my daughter drew a picture in her fathers day card to him. When she was done and showed me I teared up. It was a drawing of the three of us and she said "It's our family". 
@3Xnocharm, I know the why is irrelevant. No, I can't believe he doesn't love me. But it's not the same love it used to be. Do I believe he doesn't respect me or want to be with me, yes I do and that stings, but it is what it is. It's just a very hard pill to swallow, and it's even harder for me to try and explain it all to my daughter. I grew up without a father. My dad died when I was 10 and my mom never remarried. I feel like the garbage that gets tossed out every night, that my daughter and I have just been thrown away.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fallen22 said:


> I feel like the garbage that gets tossed out every night, that my daughter and I have just been thrown away.


I am all too familiar with that feeling. My ex husband tossed me and my teenage daughter out of his house and moved his ex wife back in less than two weeks later. Talk about gut wrenching and life altering....If I can get through it, so can you. I know it feels like you cant, but you can, and you will.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

1) Stop letting your daughter determine what you do with YOUR life. OF COURSE she wants you with her daddy. but her daddy is a sicko who sends other women pictures of his penis for chrissakes!!!
2) Stop acting like splitting up with him is the end of the world. IT'S NOT. He's a cheating lying ba$tard who does NOT deserve you. Or his child.
3) You can't believe he doesn't love you? What does he have to do to prove it to you? HE DOESN'T LOVE YOU. If he did he'd be pleading with you to come home and he'd be doing everything in his power to make that happen. Is he doing that?? NO. He's telling you over and over and OVER that he doesn't WANT you. BELIEVE him.
4) By acting the way you're acting, you're teaching your daughter to be a trembling puddle of misery if a guy ever breaks up with her, and to plead and beg and debase herself to try and keep him. No matter what the cost to her emotional health and self respect.

You REALLY need to move on with your life WITHOUT him. Get yourself some therapy to improve your self image and make absolutely sure you don't EVER get involved with another guy until you've improved vastly in that area.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My ex-husband swore both times, when I was prepared to divorce him, that he loved me more than life. The first time I believed him. The second time I didn't and I finally divorced him. Which is what I should have done the first time. Because his actions said he didn't love me. And your husband's actions say he doesn't love you. Accept that and make a plan to move on. Otherwise, you'll be his doormat for the rest of the marriage. And he WILL continue to cheat. That will send a very bad message to your daughter and she will likely repeat it some day.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

fallen22 said:


> I shared some of this information ya'll have shared with my MIL. She doesn't think the NPD fits him but I do and I have for a while. That being said, she still agrees wholeheartedly with me that he needs professional help and has ****ed everything up. I was no angle when our marriage first started, I had many problems. Hormonal imbalance, PPD, thyroid malfunction, etc. It took a toll on me and him and he hasn't been able to forgive me for it, even though they were all medically treatable once I got to the right doctor and mindset.
> 
> It's funny how I can forgive him for years of sneaking behind my back talking to friends in ways he shouldn't have been and having an affair but he continually brings up my past mistakes.....meh.


He brings up your past as excuses to justify his behavior now. Your stuck looking at yourself thinking you are at fault. You arent. 

Whether he has a mental issue or is just a selfish jerk is irrelevant at the moment, he is unwilling to address any faults in the marriage or himself. You should check with your county or city agencies as they may have legal aides or assistance to help with divorce. It's doesn't sound like you have a great deal of assets or high income issues.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I am sorry his is throwing your illnesses back at you. He is a jerk regardless of whether he as a personality disorder or not. Some people are just jerks dear.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

So,what's the plan?

You love him, he loves you..and you're separated. Now what?

Either you both get into MC or you file. I'm not exactly sure what the dilemma here is. What you're doing is treading water. At some point, you have to swim to shore..on either side.

As an aside, you say you're still in love with him, yet list incidents and behaviors that any sane person wouldn't love..actually, probably wouldn't even tolerate. Could it be that you cannot admit to yourself that whatever it once was that you might have actually loved is no gone, perhaps forever?

Consider therapy for yourself too.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

I just to be clear to everyone, I've been in therapy for five months. All its done is help my confidence and self image.
@Hope1964, it's hard to throw away someone you love. This isn't easy for me, you must get that I'm sure. I'm 30 years old and met him my senior year of high school. This isn't easy. I took the initiative to see a secular therapist and they've helped with what I mentioned above. I can't afford any other type of therapy. Marriages can recover from infidelity and I'm not the type to just give up on a person. I have stood up for myself and have put him in his place. He's not taken it well. I've been very confrontational with him and have not let him walk all over me anymore. That being said, he is a man I married because I LOVE him, and I am the only one here who knows him. He did a 180 when we moved from Arizona to Nevada and everyone who knows him saw it. I'm not making excuses for him, I no longer do that. I'm just trying to fill in some blanks. I am a loyal, loving woman who refuses to give up on a person until absolutely pushed over the edge. I haven't been pushed to that point yet. Maybe that makes me foolish or maybe it means I'm stronger than the average woman, or maybe it's both.
@honcho, no I don't have many assets or much income. I live in a town of 650 people, good paying jobs are hard to come by here and I'm thankful for the opportunity my cousin gave me to be his office manager. I'm saving as much as I can so I can get back on my feet.
@Unicus, yes I've thought that what we once had is gone, because I know it is. Something new could be born from this if he'd let it, but only time will tell. Right now it doesn't look good but you never know.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> I just to be clear to everyone, I've been in therapy for five months. All its done is help my confidence and self image.


That's a good thing. That is IC. You are not in marriage counseling. You are technically separated and living in limbo.

I hope you find your way to being happy again. No one deserves living on hold...that is what limbo is. You can't get that time back.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@Bibi1031, no you can't get that time back. My memories have been my worst enemy.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

fallen22 said:


> I just to be clear to everyone, I've been in therapy for five months. All its done is help my confidence and self image.
> @Hope1964, it's hard to throw away someone you love. This isn't easy for me, you must get that I'm sure. I'm 30 years old and met him my senior year of high school. This isn't easy. I took the initiative to see a secular therapist and they've helped with what I mentioned above. I can't afford any other type of therapy. Marriages can recover from infidelity and I'm not the type to just give up on a person. I have stood up for myself and have put him in his place. He's not taken it well. I've been very confrontational with him and have not let him walk all over me anymore. That being said, he is a man I married because I LOVE him, and I am the only one here who knows him. He did a 180 when we moved from Arizona to Nevada and everyone who knows him saw it. I'm not making excuses for him, I no longer do that. I'm just trying to fill in some blanks. I am a loyal, loving woman who refuses to give up on a person until absolutely pushed over the edge. I haven't been pushed to that point yet. Maybe that makes me foolish or maybe it means I'm stronger than the average woman, or maybe it's both.
> @honcho, no I don't have many assets or much income. I live in a town of 650 people, good paying jobs are hard to come by here and I'm thankful for the opportunity my cousin gave me to be his office manager. I'm saving as much as I can so I can get back on my feet.
> @Unicus, yes I've thought that what we once had is gone, because I know it is. Something new could be born from this if he'd let it, but only time will tell. Right now it doesn't look good but you never know.



Hun, I genuinely feel for you here. But I think you're feeling more than thinking. What you want may not be possible from from you have. I think the best course of action for you is to find the wherewithal to re start therapy for yourself and process the emotion in a way that doesn't interfere with rational thought.

It often takes more than desire on the part of one (or even both) people to make a very bad situation better.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> I just to be clear to everyone, I've been in therapy for five months. All its done is help my confidence and self image.
> @Hope1964, it's hard to throw away someone you love. This isn't easy for me, you must get that I'm sure. I'm 30 years old and met him my senior year of high school. This isn't easy. I took the initiative to see a secular therapist and they've helped with what I mentioned above. I can't afford any other type of therapy. Marriages can recover from infidelity and I'm not the type to just give up on a person. I have stood up for myself and have put him in his place. He's not taken it well. I've been very confrontational with him and have not let him walk all over me anymore. That being said, he is a man I married because I LOVE him, and I am the only one here who knows him. He did a 180 when we moved from Arizona to Nevada and everyone who knows him saw it. I'm not making excuses for him, I no longer do that. I'm just trying to fill in some blanks. I am a loyal, loving woman who refuses to give up on a person until absolutely pushed over the edge. I haven't been pushed to that point yet. Maybe that makes me foolish or maybe it means I'm stronger than the average woman, or maybe it's both.
> @honcho, no I don't have many assets or much income. I live in a town of 650 people, good paying jobs are hard to come by here and I'm thankful for the opportunity my cousin gave me to be his office manager. I'm saving as much as I can so I can get back on my feet.
> @Unicus, yes I've thought that what we once had is gone, because I know it is. Something new could be born from this if he'd let it, but only time will tell. Right now it doesn't look good but you never know.


But, the reality is, that you've become stronger at being a doormat, we've all been there and it's not healthy. Start detaching, it gets easier, I promise.

You are expecting something new out of your relationship and you got it, the truth, take those blinders and rose colored glasses off, he's shown you who he is, believe him.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

I laid in bed last night thinking about how ALL of my belongings are in that house in Nevada. Literally everything of mine is there, even my two cats. He sleeps in my bed every night, goes into a closet thats full of my clothes and shoes, makes meals in a kitchen full of my kitchen gadgets, etc. It makes me sick.....and genuinely pissed off.
@Slow Hand, what do you mean I've become stronger at being a doormat?
@Unicus, my therapists are secular in nature. It's helped to some degree but only with my self esteem. I feel that going back at this point isn't going to do me any good.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

You want to wait for him and hope for a miracle. That is not going to happen. He is too far gone from you emotionally, he will not turn back.

You are in his past now. He has been honest with you. You don't want that honesty. You want more lies!

Stop that! You are only prolonging the inevitable. Move on even if it's kicking ans screaming every inch of the way there. It's the only card left on the deck for you. No reconciliation card has ever been offered because it is not in your deck of cards.

Let it go, or keep living in sucky limbo!

Those are your two options. You have no others. Your can't wrap around the idea that he left everything. You can't, he already has not only left you physically but emotionally much longer than that.

Your head is messed up. It doesn't correlate with your feelings. That is going to take time, apparently a long time for you. That doesn't mean your logic is correct. It can't be because you didn't cause this; he did.

You can't fix it because you didn't break it. It's over, you need to listen to others that have been in your shoes. Most WS don't seek reconciliation because they cheated thinking they no longer loved their spouse. They are probably right. They were just not honest until they had set a nest elsewhere.

Believe statistics...they are not in your favor. Your marriage is a casualty of infidelity...not the exception!


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@Bibi1031. What do you mean my head is messed up?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> @Bibi1031. What do you mean my head is messed up?


You would never leave him. Your head cannot accept this fact that HE CAN. I was the same way. 

I filed for divorce and let my husband go because I saw the pattern in his other brothers. That is why I did it, but not because my head believed it. I still can't wrap my head around it at times and it has been almost 14 years! The patterns and the statistics didn't lie; my head, my gut and my emotions did!

Some of us take our marriage vows to the grave, others don't. I would of stayed with my X through thick or thin regardless of the temptations thrown my way. My moral compass was firm and unwavering. 

I WAS (being the operative word here) because it ain't that way anymore. I am a royal mess. After two failed marriages and the worst one not being the infidelity one but the abusive one...the damage has been done and the clock can't be turned.

I'm glad you asked for clarification. I sometimes think people perceive what I am trying to convey and that is most certainly not so.:smile2:


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> I laid in bed last night thinking about how ALL of my belongings are in that house in Nevada. Literally everything of mine is there, even my two cats. He sleeps in my bed every night, goes into a closet thats full of my clothes and shoes, makes meals in a kitchen full of my kitchen gadgets, etc. It makes me sick.....and genuinely pissed off.
> @Slow Hand, what do you mean I've become stronger at being a doormat?
> @Unicus, my therapists are secular in nature. It's helped to some degree but only with my self esteem. I feel that going back at this point isn't going to do me any good.


Look, I don't mean to be rude or insensitive, but I've been there. How long has it been since D day? It doesn't appear as though you've made much progress, if any at all. You let him use you, while he was visiting, and you still want him back. You are simply not in your right mind, you should never let anyone disrespect you, like your husband has, and continues to do. He's made it clear, that he doesn't want to get back together, let him go, believe him!

It's high time you pick yourself up off the floor and do something about it. Stop making excuses and fight for your rights, this is not on you and you have no obligation to anyone but yourself. Would you really want your daughter growing up in this type of situation? Do you really think he can change, when it's obvious, you never really knew him? 

Just be careful, guard your heart, when he see's the new you, he may try to get back together with you. Will you be strong enough to spurn his advances? Or will you cave in and become a doormat once again? There's a whole new world waiting out there for you, seize the moment and do what you know is right, file for divorce and move on. 




> Infidelity feels like intense hate that is meant to agonizingly carve the love right out of your heart. A sadistic and vengeful way to say, "I despise you like no other person on earth." It is the combination of evil and hate that rips at your heart, spitting a venom of condemnation, from someone who feels like the devil; only this time the devil is wearing your spouses face. From an enemy you may expect such ruthlessness, but not from your spouse. It is the ultimate rejection of your very being from the person who knows you the most. It is horror that terrorizes every moment of your life as it kills your dreams of what your life is, was, and will be. The shock of the assault feels no different than if your spouse plunged a knife deep into your heart, while you let out a bloodcurdling scream of destruction to your self-esteem and safety. It is mocking of your love, a statement of reprisal. The confusion so overwhelming and dismaying - How could this person who claimed to love you, dispose of your affections so ruthlessly, tearing them from your heart one vicious and bloody slash after another. Once the extraction is complete, leering at your anguish, as if now, you understand their disgust for you; sneering with achievement as you accept their hatred. No respect is given to the gift of commitment upheld by you. It is implied as burdensome and irritating.
> 
> Read more at: Infidelity is traumatic, but it is not your fault. Staying or leaving after an affair.
> Copyright © www.healingafteraffiars-bloomington.info


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I have experienced an 18 year, 14 years married relationship falling apart just like you have. It involved infidelity just as yours did. It still bothers me terribly even though it's been a couple of years. 

It hurts to have the person you love reject you. You feel helpless-- you are. But only regarding their love for you. 
You feel like their live can't just evaporate--- it has.
You feel like the love they have for you is there, it's just deep below the surface--- it's not and likely never was there as it should have been, hence the years of inappropriate behavior you've learned about.

Your self esteem is gone, you feel unlovable, old, and unwanted. It hurts. You don't want to let go of your dreams of a happy family that are do important to you, and nonexistent for him.

Here's what you must do. You don't have a choice in this if you want to be happy again.

Divorce him. Live as best as you can and learn to be happy again on your own. Stop thinking about him. Force yourself. It will get easier when you accept he's gone. Acceptance is the first step to healing. Find hobbies or just do things you've always enjoyed or wanted to do.
When you're happy and over him, consider dating. Yes, regardless of what you look like or think you look like, or how old you are, there are LOTS of people out there that will find you attractive, and you them. When you're ready and you meet the right one, things will come easy. If it's not easy, send them on their way. Things should at least be easy at first. When you find someone you like, you will stop thinking about your ex and you will begin to see him for what he really is, when you do think about him.
This is not your fault, and you can't fix it. But you can be happy again, and you will likely love the next person that actually loves you back much more than this disloyal jerk you are currently letting your life get ruined by. 

Please don't think you can't get over this. You can. It's not easy, but you can----if you start moving in the right direction instead of stagnating where you are because if inaction.

I wish you luck, strength, and future happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@Evinrude58.....I cried reading your words because what you said resignated with me to my core. My family is gone. My dream of growing old together is gone. I'm now raising my daughter alone, just like my mom did with me.

It hurts so bad......I haven't cried over this in quite a while but your words rang so true with me the tears just fell


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm so sorry you're hurting. I know firsthand how bad it does hurt. I'm not normally a heavy person. I didn't eat for two months. I list 30 pounds.

There's good news. When you accept what's happened, you will get better quickly. And you will be happy. YOU WILL find a person to spend your life with, and you will have the chance now to find a person who will truly love you.
Your happiest days are in the future.

I promise that you will put this behind you and things will appear so different than they do now. I assure you that you can work toward your dream again. And that's all it takes.

Please, don't feel in despair. We've all been there. You aren't alone. Post when you're feeling bad. Someone will answer. It helps a little to know you're not the only person that has successfully rebuilt their life after having been betrayed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Just read your situation. I'm sorry to hear that you're hurting, and that you and your daughter have been put in this position. In my opinion you're going about this wrong. 

You're in limbo, but not because of him but because of YOU!!!

You want to move forward, and get on the path to happiness for both you and your daughter? From here on out, when you start thinking about your husband and how much you love him and want to work things out, stop yourself IMMEDIATELY and remind yourself that this PIECE OF $HIT showed you time and time again how much he truly loves you by sending pictures of his penis not to women but YOUR FRIENDS. 

It wasn't some stupid thing he did once when he was drunk, but it sounds like he did it multiple times over a good number of years. You say you're angry, but I call total BS on this because if you had any self respect for yourself you would be LIVID about this and more importantly you would have filed already to end this farce of a relationship that for some crazy reason you're trying to hold onto.

Is this the message that you want to show your 7 yr old daughter? That you value yourself so little that you're willing to let the man who is suppose to love you and have your back NO MATTER WHAT treat you like a PIECE OF $HIT? 

Where's your DIGNITY & SELF RESPECT? 

You want to travel and are frightened about what the future holds, I get it. Quit thinking about what you don't have and make a choice to open the door on a new life for you and your daughter. Everything starts with a choice. Then take the first step and take a baby step to get momentum moving.

File for divorce.
Take your cousin up on his offer, and go back to Nevada and get all of you and your daughters possessions. Bring it back to Montana.
Trust me by doing these two things you'll feel better about your situation as you will be taking control of your life and more importantly your future. You'll feel empowered.

When you get back to Montana, continue working for your cousin, and realize it's serving a purpose (temporarily). By the grace of god you do have a roof over your head even though it's with your mom and you hate being in this situation. Do you know how many people don't have a roof over their head? Be grateful!!

I would also use this time to continue going to individual counseling. You need to find out who you are. Like why would you ever want to be in a relationship with a man who obviously has no respect for you or your child? Did your husband think that sending these texts to your friends would never get back to you? Now that it has, how did you react to it? You're torn to pieces claiming you love this guy and willing to do anything to try and fix it? Come on now.

You need to to learn to start trusting that voice deep down inside of us (the Holy Spirit) who's been talking to you about all of this but you're not listening. You get one shot at this thing called life. You're holding on to some fairy tail about putting your marriage back together, and you and your daughter and husband live happily ever after.

The sooner you realize who and what your husband is the sooner you can get PISSED OFF ENOUGH to say that you and your daughter are too valuable to take crumbs from some scumbag and PISSED OFF ENOUGH to say it's time to get back in life and say NO MORE.

Your husband has shown who and what he is.
The question is are you willing to put up with this, or are you ready to close the page on this chapter in your life and be ready to start the next chapter?

STOP LETTING FEAR DICTATE YOUR DECISIONS.
Baby steps.
File for divorce.
Each step you take, trust me, you'll get stronger and you'll also realize it's not as bad as you thought. This will give you the strength and more importantly the COURAGE to take the next baby step.

If you can't do it for yourself DO IT FOR YOUR DAUGHTER!!!!
She deserves this.

I'll be praying for you, and trust me, you're not this weak person who can't handle all of this. The Lord didn't give you a spirit of fear. The fighter in you is already in you.

So remember, every single time you start thinking about your husband and how great things were, stop yourself IMMEDIATELY, and tell yourself this man who you claim you love and are trying to hold onto had so little respect for you and your daughter and showed how much he loved you by sending pictures of his penis to your friends.

The choice is up to you!!
Take the first step to a new life.
It all starts with a choice.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Why would you want to stay with a man who has cheated on you and has been inappropriate with your friends? The man is a cheat. He more than likely moved out of the bedroom because of the affair. It does not sound like he has any interest in working on the marriage. I was in your shoes many years ago, my husband was having an affair and he had filed for divorce, I didn't want it, I was in love with my husband despite his affair and I had a hard time moving on. Seek out a good counselor to help you thru this. As I watched my husband (ex) move thru his life I began to see him in a different way than I had when we were married and I was in love with him. He was a cheat and a liar. He cheated on every women he was serious with after our divorce. He destroyed a second marriage with his cheating. There are some men (and women) who are serial cheaters, they need help but they don't want help, they like what they are doing. If you took this man back without him getting to the core of HIS issues he would do the same again. You could not trust this man.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@sideways, I know you're right. I know everyone here is right. I now know there are worse things than death. He's made me feel guilty for the things he did. I only wish my friends would have said something sooner. As far as I know, a penis picture was only sent to one friend, and the rest told him to leave them alone. Right after our daughter was born I had discovered he'd been on dating websites too. I wish I could have seen all this for what it was back then and then I could have saved myself some massive heartache, but I guess that's how we learn.

My biggest fear is he'll find a way to get full custody of our daughter. I can't afford a lawyer so I don't know how to go about this. I'm also a resident of one state living in another. Will someone help me for little or no money? Who do I go to?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your husband will have to pay for your lawyer most likely, whether he wants to or not. What you need to do is go talk to one. They will give you a course of action. There are people willing to help you. Get their help. 
Don't be afraid. This is a bad person you're dealing with. The longer you are legally married, the more his bad deeds can affect you financially.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> The longer you are legally married, the more his bad deeds can affect you financially.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How can his bad deeds affect me financially?


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

fallen22 said:


> @sideways, I know you're right. I know everyone here is right. I now know there are worse things than death. He's made me feel guilty for the things he did. I only wish my friends would have said something sooner. As far as I know, a penis picture was only sent to one friend, and the rest told him to leave them alone. Right after our daughter was born I had discovered he'd been on dating websites too. I wish I could have seen all this for what it was back then and then I could have saved myself some massive heartache, but I guess that's how we learn.
> 
> My biggest fear is he'll find a way to get full custody of our daughter. I can't afford a lawyer so I don't know how to go about this. I'm also a resident of one state living in another. Will someone help me for little or no money? Who do I go to?


"My biggest fear".
Can you see that fear is driving everything you think of, and everything that you do and don't do?

How do you know that someone (a lawyer or anybody else for that matter) won't help you? Go explain your situation to a lawyer(s), and I have NO doubt that someone will help you.

When we don't know the answers to things in our future our mind runs wild, and trust me the things we think of are 99% negative thoughts.

Where you're at right now is like an alcoholic, and the road to a better a life (recovery) is looking in the mirror and acknowledging the fact that "yes, I am an alcoholic". In your situation it's acknowledging the reality of your situation/marriage, and that your husband isn't a good person and given his DNA (who and what he TRULY is) just isn't someone you need to be married to.

You tip toe around truly acknowledging this. Once you TRULY believe it in your mind and soul (not your heart as it can be lead astray) then you've taken the first step.

Then it's about taking ACTION and doing something about it.
Take the first step (baby step).

You said you're 30 yrs old.
You have your whole life out in front of you, and the decisions you make today will determine your future.

Let's look at what you do have.
Your daughter is with you.
I can only imagine how much you love her, and she loves you.
You are both healthy!!!! Don't take this for granted!!!!!
Your with your mom, and I'm sure she loves you and your daughter as well.
You and your daughter have a roof over your head, you're not wondering where your next meal is coming from (as millions of people around the world do), you have clothes on your back, you have a job (even if it's not the ideal job long term), and you have transportation (correct?). You have a cousin who seems to be willing to be there for you. All of this are HUGE BLESSINGS, and it's something to build on.

You have all these thoughts running around in your head.
Put a step by step plan down on paper, and then take a deep breath, and then put all of your focus on making step 1 happen. Once you've done that focus on step 2, and then move to the next step. By putting the plan down on paper you're creating a map on how to get from point A to point B (the life that you want to create for you and your daughter).

Also remember, despite your daughter being only 7 yrs old, she's watching everything you're doing, and she's not stupid. Show her that things happen in life that we never expected, but even though we get knocked down, we pick ourselves up, and we press forward. This is the difference between a coward and courage.

So let's stop with all the fearful thoughts.
You don't need anyone to motivate you.
Get online and make an appointment with an attorney so you know what your legal options are moving forward.
Then put the wheels in motion to go back to Nevada to get all of your possessions. 
This is a good start.

Agree?

You CAN do this and more importantly you WILL DO THIS!!!


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@sideways. I am fully aware that fear is driving everything I do. I know that. I've never really been independent. I mean to some degree, the obvious ways yes, but my husband has always supported me. My work was always just a bonus, extra money. I have a bachelors degree so I'm not stupid and I'm not unable to find a good job. It's just finding that job where I live. I'll most likely have to commute an hour or more one way to find anything that will pay for a house here. Too many out of state people with too much money have moved here and have driven up the cost of land and housing. 

I know my mind is running wild, it has been for about 8 months now or so. Yes, I have all those things you listed, and no I'm not taking them for granted. My mom is sick with breast cancer, but doing well. She was diagnosed right after I came back to Montana, and my aunt as well. 

I know my daughter see's and hears everything. Her attitude has changed quite a bit since being here. She is away from all of her belongings and her pets, everything she knows. It's not been easy on her and I'm doing my best to try and stay positive. 
@AVR1962, I know you're speaking from experience, and so in saying that I'm sure you understand why I'm struggling with actually forcing myself to file for divorce. You said you loved your husband and didn't want a divorce. You see now that he wasn't good for you and have since moved on and lived a happy life, I'm assuming. It's just very hard to come to grips with the fact that my happily ever after with this man who treated me so well (I thought) for so long, is capable of these things. He didn't take into account what his actions would do to his family. And not just me, but his parents, brother, etc. They are all so angry with him, he almost has no one to turn to.

This may be me digressing, but a few weeks ago I'd gone to dinner with a friend who is also a therapist and while we were eating I'd gotten two texts from him, photo messages. I didn't see them till long after dinner as I'd left my phone in my purse while we were eating. He had wrecked our Polaris Razr, hit a tree head on. He was injured pretty badly but not severely. Of course I was worried and wanted to make sure he was ok. He assured me he was, and I didn't worry too much more after that. A few days go by and somehow we end up in a bit of an argument over something, through text, and he sends me a message saying something to this affect "I wrecked the Razr for gods sake, sent you pictures, and it took you an hour and a half to respond because you were out with god knows who doing god knows what"......I was floored. He knew exactly who I was with and what I was doing, and he had the nerve to say that. It's little **** like that just irks the crap out of me.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

fallen22 said:


> @sideways. I am fully aware that fear is driving everything I do. I know that. I've never really been independent. I mean to some degree, the obvious ways yes, but my husband has always supported me. My work was always just a bonus, extra money. I have a bachelors degree so I'm not stupid and I'm not unable to find a good job. It's just finding that job where I live. I'll most likely have to commute an hour or more one way to find anything that will pay for a house here. Too many out of state people with too much money have moved here and have driven up the cost of land and housing.
> 
> I know my mind is running wild, it has been for about 8 months now or so. Yes, I have all those things you listed, and no I'm not taking them for granted. My mom is sick with breast cancer, but doing well. She was diagnosed right after I came back to Montana, and my aunt as well.
> 
> ...


His RAZR accident is a prime example of why the longer you wait the more financial problems can occur. Had he been seriously injured the medical bills would be part your responsibility because you have no legal separation agreement. 

The RAZR is/was a marital asset. It's now damaged or junk. Half that asset value was yours. Accidents/mistakes that no one expects happen all the time. My crazy ex totaled her car and didn't pay the insurance. She was still on the hook for the splitting the value because we had the paperwork filed for the legal separtation. Had it not been we would be splitting the value of a junk car.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

honcho said:


> His RAZR accident is a prime example of why the longer you wait the more financial problems can occur. Had he been seriously injured the medical bills would be part your responsibility because you have no legal separation agreement.
> 
> The RAZR is/was a marital asset. It's now damaged or junk. Half that asset value was yours. Accidents/mistakes that no one expects happen all the time. My crazy ex totaled her car and didn't pay the insurance. She was still on the hook for the splitting the value because we had the paperwork filed for the legal separtation. Had it not been we would be splitting the value of a junk car.


Now I see what you're saying. Insurance totaled the RAZR so he has $1600 to pay on a totaled machine. It's never been "ours". He's almost always referred to it as his. As odd as this may sound I have no concerns when it comes to the financial aspect of this, except the lawyer, because it's all "his" **** anyways. He's financially responsible, if nothing else.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You are so wrong. ANY debt that he find up while you're married is likely going to be half YOUR debt. You are still married. You so freaking badly need to talk to a lawyer.

Please do this. You are 30 years old! I would really like to have been your age when I had to divorce. You have had your daughter all this time. No judge is going to give custody to an absent dad.

Stop worrying and do something!
You're letting this guy hold your life hostage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@Evinrude58. I emailed a lawyer. Waiting to hear back. There are no family law lawyers where I live so I have to go out of town. I suppose I'm quite ignorant in this situation, unfortunately.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

We all were ignorant until it happened to us. I hope you get some good advice. I assure you that you aren't as helpless as your ex wants you to believe. Why do you think he hasn't divorced you yet? It's not because he still lives you, sadly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> We all were ignorant until it happened to us. I hope you get some good advice. I assure you that you aren't as helpless as your ex wants you to believe. Why do you think he hasn't divorced you yet? It's not because he still lives you, sadly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So what are you saying? That he's afraid I'll take him for everything he's worth? You lost me there.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm saying that a divorce will be expensive for him.
I don't think you should take him for everything.
Just divorce. And I don't think it will cost you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I'm saying that a divorce will be expensive for him.
> I don't think you should take him for everything.
> Just divorce. And I don't think it will cost you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think I completely misunderstood what you meant lol. Ok. That clears things up for me, thank you.

I do honestly wish that this wasn't happening, but such is life I suppose.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

fallen22 said:


> So what are you saying? That he's afraid I'll take him for everything he's worth? You lost me there.


At a minimum he would be liable for child support which it doesn't sound from your postings he is providing much in the way of financial help. 

This isn't his only factor why he hasn't filed but no doubt plays a part. You don't have to take him to the cleaners or try to really but you are entitled to half. Marriage is fun that way, even though it's mine/yours it's really all ours and subject to division.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

honcho said:


> At a minimum he would be liable for child support which it doesn't sound from your postings he is providing much in the way of financial help.
> 
> This isn't his only factor why he hasn't filed but no doubt plays a part. You don't have to take him to the cleaners or try to really but you are entitled to half. Marriage is fun that way, even though it's mine/yours it's really all ours and subject to division.


No, I don't want to take him for all he's worth. I'm just not that kind of person. I don't have a vindictive bone in my body. Being "too nice" has gotten me into this mess this deep. I should have stood up for myself long ago. I have complete access to our bank account but I rarely use it, just to pay bills. I use my wages, which are very little, to pay for gas, my student loans and groceries.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I truly hope you find your way out of this marriage and into happiness.
You are a rare woman indeed to have this attitude. 

Glad you're seeing a lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I truly hope you find your way out of this marriage and into happiness.
> You are a rare woman indeed to have this attitude.
> 
> Glad you're seeing a lawyer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What attitude would you be referring to? And I do hope I can be happy again. I'm steering clear of men for a very, very long time. Sad to say but it's true.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

An attitude of making your own way and not going after cash and prizes in a divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Btw, it's not all men, it's him. Keep blame placed where it belongs-- on him.

There's plenty of bad people of any gender. Don't waste time blaming gender. Blame your lousy, cheating, cake eating husband.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> No, I don't want to take him for all he's worth. I'm just not that kind of person. I don't have a vindictive bone in my body. Being "too nice" has gotten me into this mess this deep. I should have stood up for myself long ago. I have complete access to our bank account but I rarely use it, just to pay bills. I use my wages, which are very little, to pay for gas, my student loans and groceries.


You can't just not take anything. You have a child to think about. If you own property, it needs to be sold and you get half. If you don't want it, your child should most certainly have it. It is not vindictiveness at all. It's fairness and also being an advocate for your child. 

He should pay for your daughter's food. Her school expenses and her needs. Most states allocate 20% of the parent earnings for the first child to support and 5% to each additional child. 

That is standard and not one bit done out of vindictiveness or malice. He owes her that. You can discuss her future as well and how you two will provide for her higher education as child support is only mandatory until the child reaches 18. Most parents will accept paying child support until the child finishes college and can truly stand on their own. 

I hope this helps you see why it's convenient for him to leave this as it is.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don't agree with putting all financial support of the child on the father. That this notion is "fair" is crazy to me. Lots and lots of women take child support and are allowed to spend it on themselves or their new bf's. Seen it myself personally.
If a man makes 150k a year, why should he have to pay 30k a year in child support, and the ex wife pay nothing? It seems the man gets shafted with custody going to the wife almost invariably, and he gets shafted financially as well. And people call this "fair"????

This fairness idea needs revamping. Divorce should result in accountability for both parents, not just men. Women should be willing to do their part since they want all this equality. Like the OP, she should go after what's fair, but nothing more. But most women aren't like OP. Too bad.

But I agree, OP, you should listen to your lawyer and get what you can. If you think it's unfair, you can always give what you don't need back to him. But don't be too nice. Just be fair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@Bibi1031. I wasn't saying I wouldn't want child support and the like. I was just stating that I don't want to take him for everything he's worth. It pains me to think that I should make him sell the house and split the profit with me. That's just the kind of person I am. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying I won't enjoy having that happen.

Yes, I do know he should be paying for some of our daughters things. He put himself in this mess, I wanted reconciliation.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't agree with putting all financial support of the child on the father. That this notion is "fair" is crazy to me. Lots and lots of women take child support and are allowed to spend it on themselves or their new bf's. Seen it myself personally.
> If a man makes 150k a year, why should he have to pay 30k a year in child support, and the ex wife pay nothing? It seems the man gets shafted with custody going to the wife almost invariably, and he gets shafted financially as well. And people call this "fair"????
> 
> This fairness idea needs revamping. Divorce should result in accountability for both parents, not just men. Women should be willing to do their part since they want all this equality. Like the OP, she should go after what's fair, but nothing more. But most women aren't like OP. Too bad.
> ...


I completely agree. I do not and will not take him for all he has. Regardless of the circumstances, I still love him and always will. I'm a kind soul. I hate conflict and try to keep the peace whenever possible.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fallen22 said:


> No, I don't want to take him for all he's worth. I'm just not that kind of person. I don't have a vindictive bone in my body. Being "too nice" has gotten me into this mess this deep. I should have stood up for myself long ago. I have complete access to our bank account but I rarely use it, just to pay bills. I use my wages, which are very little, to pay for gas, my student loans and groceries.


I was the same way when I went through my divorces, I had no interest in taking someone to the cleaners or being vindictive. Get your child support and split your assets.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't agree with putting all financial support of the child on the father. That this notion is "fair" is crazy to me.


The custodial parent is the one that receives the child support. It's not gender specific. Sadly, most states sway towards the mother being the custodial parent. I find that unfair as the mother is not always the best of the two parents.

I think the % alottedbymost states is fair. It's intended for the child, but if the custodial parent spends it on something else; that's on them and not the system.

To be honest, very few earn $150,000 a year. The average income may be half of that. So, it's quite fair. Would 10% be enough? I don't think so.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Just thought I would catch everyone up and let you know I am hiring an attorney. He's fighting me for custody of our daughter but says he wants to be nice and not fight. **** that. He wants this damn divorce and I'm getting the best attorney in the region. How I'm gonna pay for I have no idea but I'll get it figured out.

Anyone have any advice on how to handle this because I'm in one state with our daughter and he's in another.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

You can request that the court have him pay your attorney fees due to the fact that the separation/divorce was instigated by him.It's fairly common for the higher earning spouse to be asked to cover the attoryney fees, especially if that is the spouse who asked for the divorce. 

I do not thik this unfair in any way. You wouldn't have to hire an attorney if he didn't decide he wants out of the marriage. So, let him pay the costs of the divorce.

And, yes, take your half of the total marital assets. You have a child and are going to be her main caretaker and financial support. If anything happens to you, if you are unable to work for any reason, if you become ill or have an accident, etc. you'll need that money to sustain any kind of decent life for her.

If you never have need of that money, you can always leave it in an account, gathering up interest, and later use it to pay for her college or to give her a head start on purchasing a car/house.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

fallen22 said:


> Just thought I would catch everyone up and let you know I am hiring an attorney. He's fighting me for custody of our daughter but says he wants to be nice and not fight. **** that. He wants this damn divorce and I'm getting the best attorney in the region. How I'm gonna pay for I have no idea but I'll get it figured out.
> 
> Anyone have any advice on how to handle this because I'm in one state with our daughter and he's in another.


You're in one state taking care of your daughter and he's in another and he wants to fight over custody?? I'd let him have at it. It won't go well for him. The system is already heavily tilted in your favor. In this case, I think it's obvious you should have full custody. He's scared of paying child support. Should have thought about that a long time ago.
You are wise to get a lawyer and not let him dictate your life, even though he doesn't want to be part of it anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@MJJEAN, the problem is coming up with the initial cost of the lawyer. I don't have $3500 to hire one. 
@Evinrude58, I'm terrified he'll find a way to get my daughter. I can't handle that on top of everything else that's gone to ****.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

fallen22 said:


> No, I don't want to take him for all he's worth. I'm just not that kind of person. I don't have a vindictive bone in my body. Being "too nice" has gotten me into this mess this deep. I should have stood up for myself long ago. I have complete access to our bank account but I rarely use it, just to pay bills. I use my wages, which are very little, to pay for gas, my student loans and groceries.


You will be rewarded for your kindness, I believe this. What vibes we send out, good or bad, comes back to us. You have not had it easy, but have courage and be kind, as you have been. It takes courage to be kind, so don't let this change you. I will be praying for you to have great strength, you deserve better. Many people fall in love with narcissists. I did once. Your soon to be ex is a narcissist, and they rarely change. ((hugs and stay strong))


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@*Deidre* - this is the worst thing I've ever had to face. Even losing my dad wasn't this painful. I just don't know where to start to end this. I have a meeting with a lawyer on monday bur I have no money to hire him. I'm trying to get a loan through the bank but I don't know any of our asset information. It's a nightmare.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

fallen22 said:


> Just thought I would catch everyone up and let you know I am hiring an attorney. He's fighting me for custody of our daughter but says he wants to be nice and not fight. **** that. He wants this damn divorce and I'm getting the best attorney in the region. How I'm gonna pay for I have no idea but I'll get it figured out.
> 
> Anyone have any advice on how to handle this because I'm in one state with our daughter and he's in another.


This is one of the things you need to discuss with a lawyer. You may have lived in the new state long enough to file in that state. As far as a retainer, how much is in the checking account? Half is yours whether he likes it or not


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

fallen22 said:


> @*Deidre* - this is the worst thing I've ever had to face. Even losing my dad wasn't this painful. I just don't know where to start to end this. I have a meeting with a lawyer on monday bur I have no money to hire him. I'm trying to get a loan through the bank but I don't know any of our asset information. It's a nightmare.


I imagine it's a scary time, right now. Please remember what I'm about to tell you. Your soon to be ex sounds like a narcissist. They are calculated, they have no empathy, they play a lot of head games, and like a cat/mouse type of game. There will come a day, when he flirts with you, or texts you something sexy. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS. It is a narcissist playing a game. Remember what love should actually look and feel like. It doesn't feel or look like this. Please remember this, because he will be alone some day, when his affinity for affairs run out, and he will remember the nice wife he left behind. But, trust me, if you entertain conversations with him other than have to do with the divorce and parenting, etc...you will always ALWAYS lose. A narcissist is always one step ahead of his prey. I hate to sound so ...sinister lol But, no person who truly loves his family, would also destroy it. Only a narcissist would do what he's doing. Praying for you, to stay very strong.

You will read threads on here of people who keep hanging on...hoping their narcissist will change. And the narcissist keeps coming in and out of their exes' lives, when they want something, sex, money...whatever. And the betrayed spouse continues to open the door. Getting hurt, nearly every time. There are some here who have worked out things, despite affairs, but the trust is gone. They are monitoring their spouses' behaviors, and checking up on them, and going through their phones, etc. Is that really a marriage? To each their own.

You can't change your soon to be ex, but you can change how you respond to him.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Your lawyer may agree to accept the proceeds from the sale of the house as a bond. 

Ask a friend or a sibling to retrieve your belongings from the home. Do not return to Nevada where he can ambush you with a filing. Do not allow your daughter to return to Nevada where he can force her to stay. Remember he allowed your daughter to go with you, he set the precedent do not allow him to change it until the courts settle the issue. 

Finally your feelings for your husband reminds me of a song from the late sixties(?) hooked on a feeling. @Uptown posted this recently about BPDand cluster B personality types.


Generally, you will not find the full-blown BPDers to be scary at all. The vast majority of them are high functioning individuals who typically exhibit a warmth, spontaneity, and childlike purity of expression that makes them very likable, fun, and easy to fall in love with. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct. You typically will never see a BPDer's dark side unless you make the mistake of trying to establish a close friendship, at which point you will start triggering the BPDer's two fears (abandonment and engulfment).

I would also add sense of entitlement to his list.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

A narcissist just wants what they want. Your feelings don't matter. Decency doesn't matter, except how it might make him look bad to others (affecting his ability to get more of what he wants).

You must stop being a victim. There is no shame in getting selfish on your own behalf AND your daughter.

Focus on your independence. Stop hanging on hoping for a change that isn't coming. Accept reality and treat him like he's dead. Find your inner b!tch.

Oh, and since he wants the divorce, I agree with others -- do nothing to block him, but let HIM do all the work. You don't owe him anything at this point. Focus ONLY on yourself and your daughter.

Good luck.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

honcho said:


> This is one of the things you need to discuss with a lawyer. You may have lived in the new state long enough to file in that state. As far as a retainer, how much is in the checking account? Half is yours whether he likes it or not


I have been in Montana long enough for this state to have jurisdiction. I don't know what's in the checking account, I can promise it's not enough to pay a retainer fee. He makes good money but we're almost completely billed out so that kind of money isn't there.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> I imagine it's a scary time, right now. Please remember what I'm about to tell you. Your soon to be ex sounds like a narcissist. They are calculated, they have no empathy, they play a lot of head games, and like a cat/mouse type of game. There will come a day, when he flirts with you, or texts you something sexy. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS. It is a narcissist playing a game. Remember what love should actually look and feel like. It doesn't feel or look like this. Please remember this, because he will be alone some day, when his affinity for affairs run out, and he will remember the nice wife he left behind. But, trust me, if you entertain conversations with him other than have to do with the divorce and parenting, etc...you will always ALWAYS lose. A narcissist is always one step ahead of his prey. I hate to sound so ...sinister lol But, no person who truly loves his family, would also destroy it. Only a narcissist would do what he's doing. Praying for you, to stay very strong.
> 
> You will read threads on here of people who keep hanging on...hoping their narcissist will change. And the narcissist keeps coming in and out of their exes' lives, when they want something, sex, money...whatever. And the betrayed spouse continues to open the door. Getting hurt, nearly every time. There are some here who have worked out things, despite affairs, but the trust is gone. They are monitoring their spouses' behaviors, and checking up on them, and going through their phones, etc. Is that really a marriage? To each their own.
> 
> You can't change your soon to be ex, but you can change how you respond to him.


I've done better with how I handle the situation and him. That hope is still there, even though I know it can't work out. He's all I've known and it's hard to get over that. I know he'll continue to hurt me and use me, and he doesn't see at all how he's used me. I've tried to tell him and he thinks that's crazy I could think that. 

I don't trust him and he doesnt trust me. We used to be happy. This makes me never want to marry again. And that makes me sad.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

JohnA said:


> Your lawyer may agree to accept the proceeds from the sale of the house as a bond.
> 
> Ask a friend or a sibling to retrieve your belongings from the home. Do not return to Nevada where he can ambush you with a filing. Do not allow your daughter to return to Nevada where he can force her to stay. Remember he allowed your daughter to go with you, he set the precedent do not allow him to change it until the courts settle the issue.
> 
> ...



I can't have a friend retrieve my belongings. My cousin will be taking me in his pickup and his enclosed trailer to get my things. He told me today there's no way he'd let me go alone, not after what's happened. He's not a man my husband wants to mess with, and he won't. They were pretty close for a long time but since all this **** has started that's changed. I feel safe with my cousin and I know I'll be ok going with him. My daughter will not be going with us.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

sapientia said:


> A narcissist just wants what they want. Your feelings don't matter. Decency doesn't matter, except how it might make him look bad to others (affecting his ability to get more of what he wants).
> 
> You must stop being a victim. There is no shame in getting selfish on your own behalf AND your daughter.
> 
> ...


He isn't going to file. He'd have done it by now. He's perfectly happy keeping me in purgatory so I'll have to file and I can do so in Montana, I've been here long enough. He's fighting me for our daughter and I know I have the upper hand with that but it scares me. I will never keep her from her dad, I want to be fair and allow him to see her regularly but I need custody of her and that's just how it is.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Your cousin can go with a bud. Questions can be asked and answered with your phone using texts and pixs. Going in person only gives your husband the opportunity to either ambush you by having you served thus gaining home court advantage and isolating you from family or have you arrested for kidnapping. 

Before you say no there is no evidence this is wrong. Sometimes we need to simply follow the advise of strangers or those we respect. There is not a single good reason for you to go and more than a few reasons not to. 

Have you read @Blossom Leigh thread on abuse. There are more than a few kinds of abuse.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

You may be able to get a free consultation from attorneys. You can shop around.... you don't HAVE to go with the first one you talk to. 

Can you get online to find financial information? Is your name on some of the bills, credit cards, etc? If you filed joint income taxes then you are on that account and can request those documents from the IRS. If your name is on anything you can start getting on the phone and getting whatever info possible. IF he pays bills online you may be able to guess his passwords to those accounts... if your name is on them, you have the right to see them.

If your name is on credit cards....attorneys will take that! Nothing to feel bad about there, because all the credit will be split during the divorce anyway. 

You can do this. You can also research online about Montana's divorce/custody laws..... do some homework. You will feel less anxious if you educate yourself! 

My ex also walked out on us (myself, 5 kids...one a teen mom so a grandbaby too) and would do nothing about divorce. I also moved far away, which is actually easier than always being in the same town. A little distance helped me TONS. I also had to divorce with no help/input/anything from him. My point is... it is definitely doable. 

It gets better. And it takes T I M E. One step at a time is right. You have a good support system. 

When you go back to get your stuff, be on the lookout for important papers...insurance policies, bills, credit card receipts, tax papers, checking account info, savings account info, pay stubs, deeds, titles, etc.... the more stuff you can find the less work you have to do later trying to get info from him. Remember.... even if you are not "taking him to the cleaners", the marital assets and debts are yours also. You just need the info to know what you are looking at financially. 

They say "marriage is about love....divorce is all business". Put on your big girl panties, and get down to business. Show your daughter how to be a strong woman. There is no reason to denigrate your stbx to your daughter, just show her that mom knows how to take care of business. She will take life cues from you, her closest female role model. Be the role model that you want her to see. Someone who is strong and independent and not a clueless doormat. (Not saying you are that, just be careful of the image you project to your daughter). Be strong for her. You can do this.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Texas Sunny said:


> They say *"marriage is about love....divorce is all business"*.


1000%. That's how I treated it and it was the best thing I did.

Kudos on fighting for your girl. You'll be glad you did. Stay tough.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

I'm having a rough day today. I'm scared because I have no money. I was denied a loan and a credit line increase in my credit card. I have a consultation tomorrow with an attorney. I'm hoping he'll be able to help me figure out the financial aspect of this in addition to the legal stuff.

I just want my legal fees paid for, what I'm rightfully entitled to and my personal belongings. The money I hopefully receive from half the house and such I will use to pay my car off and my student loans. I'm not taking my husband to the cleaners but I'm in this mess because of him, because he's too damn selfish and full of pride to make sacrifices for the sake of his family. So he's going to pay to get my debts taken care of and then I can start fresh. It's gonna be a chore to find a decent job where I live. Rural Montana is not known for high paying jobs but I'm a college grad with a good head on her shoulders and I'll figure it out.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

It's amazing the amount of secrets that have been kept from me for 12 years! Jesus Christ! I have a list now of 12 girls he was inappropriate with, not physically but sending them messages like "I'd pay to look at you" and "you know you're beautiful, my wife won't even let me look at her". Ugh and they were all friends except the one who he did cheat on me with. Thank god my friends were decent enough to shut him down. It's just too bad they didn't tell me sooner. 

I understand not wanting to hurt me, especially when they thought everything between he and I was ok. But damn it stings. Now I just gotta get him out of my life and figure out how to rebuild from nothing.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

fallen22 said:


> It's amazing the amount of secrets that have been kept from me for 12 years! Jesus Christ! I have a list now of 12 girls he was inappropriate with, not physically but sending them messages like "I'd pay to look at you" and "you know you're beautiful, my wife won't even let me look at her". Ugh and they were all friends except the one who he did cheat on me with. Thank god my friends were decent enough to shut him down. It's just too bad they didn't tell me sooner.
> 
> I understand not wanting to hurt me, especially when they thought everything between he and I was ok. But damn it stings. Now I just gotta get him out of my life and figure out how to rebuild from nothing.


I am so sorry you are going thru this.

And this is precisely why I always say that one must immediately bring up any inappropriate behavior to the spouse.
If any friend of mine does this crap and I know it... Their spouse will hear it ASAP.
Does not matter if my friend is there closest and best I have ever had. But cheating has no place.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't agree with putting all financial support of the child on the father. That this notion is "fair" is crazy to me. Lots and lots of women take child support and are allowed to spend it on themselves or their new bf's. Seen it myself personally.
> If a man makes 150k a year, why should he have to pay 30k a year in child support, and the ex wife pay nothing? It seems the man gets shafted with custody going to the wife almost invariably, and he gets shafted financially as well. And people call this "fair"????
> 
> This fairness idea needs revamping. Divorce should result in accountability for both parents, not just men. Women should be willing to do their part since they want all this equality. Like the OP, she should go after what's fair, but nothing more. But most women aren't like OP. Too bad.
> ...


I think you are making gross generalisations. In my case for example I gave up a good career where I was earning more than my husband to look after kids and travel around the world (it sounds great but not so exciting when you do it for the umpteeth time looking for schools, homes, new network, etc) to support his career. If following your logic we were to divorce, I should be getting my own job and getting on with it. I do now have a full time good paying job due but the point is I did everything while he worked so the wealth created we did it together (anyway my H is useless with money and i am the saving and investing kind of gal). So in our scenario would it be 'fair' in your opinion if I get nothing just because the kids no longer need financing let's say. I would think that is grossly unfair. I ought to seek lost earnings and compensation for domestic support services which based on peer reviewed research the domestic support alone equates to approx USD65,000 per annum. Men cannot earn and create wealth without having domestic support and knowing their family, household, etc is being taken care of. Unfortunately, too many put no value on this at all, no wonder many females don't want to marry or have families.

Just saying!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

fallen22 said:


> It's amazing the amount of secrets that have been kept from me for 12 years! Jesus Christ! I have a list now of 12 girls he was inappropriate with, not physically but sending them messages like "I'd pay to look at you" and "you know you're beautiful, my wife won't even let me look at her". Ugh and they were all friends except the one who he did cheat on me with. Thank god my friends were decent enough to shut him down. It's just too bad they didn't tell me sooner.
> 
> I understand not wanting to hurt me, especially when they thought everything between he and I was ok. But damn it stings. Now I just gotta get him out of my life and figure out how to rebuild from nothing.


So sorry you are finding all of this out now, but you are heading in the right direction and you have your family so you will get through this. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Your WH sounds like he has major issues with boundaries and sounds a bit creepy to me.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> It's amazing the amount of secrets that have been kept from me for 12 years! Jesus Christ! I have a list now of 12 girls he was inappropriate with, not physically but sending them messages like "I'd pay to look at you" and "you know you're beautiful, my wife won't even let me look at her". Ugh and they were all friends except the one who he did cheat on me with. Thank god my friends were decent enough to shut him down. It's just too bad they didn't tell me sooner.
> 
> I understand not wanting to hurt me, especially when they thought everything between he and I was ok. But damn it stings. Now I just gotta get him out of my life and figure out how to rebuild from nothing.


The truly scary thing is what you don't know. I imagine if he behaved that way with your friends, he was also behaving that way with women who don't know you or who don't know you well.

I call b.s. on not wanting to hurt you because they thought everything was ok between you two. They knew things weren't ok because he was sending them inappropriate messages. In ok marriages, the husband doesn't send the wifes friends inappropriate messages.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

imtamnew said:


> fallen22 said:
> 
> 
> > It's amazing the amount of secrets that have been kept from me for 12 years! Jesus Christ! I have a list now of 12 girls he was inappropriate with, not physically but sending them messages like "I'd pay to look at you" and "you know you're beautiful, my wife won't even let me look at her". Ugh and they were all friends except the one who he did cheat on me with. Thank god my friends were decent enough to shut him down. It's just too bad they didn't tell me sooner.
> ...


I can understand the hesitation and fear of not wanting to say anything and get involved but this hurts worse I think than if I would have known when it happened. At least it didn't take me long to find out about the affair.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> fallen22 said:
> 
> 
> > It's amazing the amount of secrets that have been kept from me for 12 years! Jesus Christ! I have a list now of 12 girls he was inappropriate with, not physically but sending them messages like "I'd pay to look at you" and "you know you're beautiful, my wife won't even let me look at her". Ugh and they were all friends except the one who he did cheat on me with. Thank god my friends were decent enough to shut him down. It's just too bad they didn't tell me sooner.
> ...


I do agree with you. Some friends just aren't aware of what could really be going on. I don't fault my friends for not telling me. At least they didn't get involved with him. What he did is on him, no one else


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

One day at a time, Fallen. Also, think about getting some new friends when the dust settles. True friends would have told you the truth, even if painful.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

sapientia said:


> One day at a time, Fallen. Also, think about getting some new friends when the dust settles. True friends would have told you the truth, even if painful.


I can't let several 25 year friendships go down the drain. These girls are my childhood friends and they've been there for me and I for them since kindergarten. Their the ones keeping me afloat. If I let them go I'll end up in a hospital. I'm already spiraling downhill at a rapid rate. I think I'm severely depressed and probably need to go to a doctor or therapist.

I'm not doing well at all. Literally everything makes me cry. I just want to sleep all the time and I don't each much. I don't enjoy things anymore. I don't want to be around anyone, I just would rather be alone. I know I need help and I guess that's one good thing, that I know I need it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

This is a grieving process you must go through, the sun will come out and you will get through and be glad you decided to stop living the limbo you were in


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sapientia said:


> One day at a time, Fallen. Also, think about getting some new friends when the dust settles. True friends would have told you the truth, even if painful.


Some of us suggested a year ago that he was not faithful. It was not well received. I think her IRL friends realized that, too, and acted accordingly.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

aine said:


> I think you are making gross generalisations. In my case for example I gave up a good career where I was earning more than my husband to look after kids and travel around the world (it sounds great but not so exciting when you do it for the umpteeth time looking for schools, homes, new network, etc) to support his career. If following your logic we were to divorce, I should be getting my own job and getting on with it. I do now have a full time good paying job due but the point is I did everything while he worked so the wealth created we did it together (anyway my H is useless with money and i am the saving and investing kind of gal). So in our scenario would it be 'fair' in your opinion if I get nothing just because the kids no longer need financing let's say. I would think that is grossly unfair. I ought to seek lost earnings and compensation for domestic support services which based on peer reviewed research the domestic support alone equates to approx USD65,000 per annum. Men cannot earn and create wealth without having domestic support and knowing their family, household, etc is being taken care of. Unfortunately, too many put no value on this at all, no wonder many females don't want to marry or have families.
> 
> Just saying!


Fabulous post, aine.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

fallen22 said:


> It's amazing the amount of secrets that have been kept from me for 12 years! Jesus Christ! I have a list now of 12 girls he was inappropriate with, not physically but sending them messages like "I'd pay to look at you" and "you know you're beautiful, my wife won't even let me look at her". Ugh and they were all friends except the one who he did cheat on me with. Thank god my friends were decent enough to shut him down. It's just too bad they didn't tell me sooner.
> 
> I understand not wanting to hurt me, especially when they thought everything between he and I was ok. But damn it stings. Now I just gotta get him out of my life and figure out how to rebuild from nothing.


It's not even worth knowing, really! I husband too was secretly doing things and seeking women. I know some of it and what I know is enough. I have a feeling what I don't know would probably shock me. Hang in there, remember his issues are his issues and have nothing to do with you. Keep pressing fwd!!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

fallen22 said:


> I can't let several 25 year friendships go down the drain. These girls are my childhood friends and they've been there for me and I for them since kindergarten. Their the ones keeping me afloat. If I let them go I'll end up in a hospital. I'm already spiraling downhill at a rapid rate. I think I'm severely depressed and probably need to go to a doctor or therapist.
> 
> I'm not doing well at all. Literally everything makes me cry. I just want to sleep all the time and I don't each much. I don't enjoy things anymore. I don't want to be around anyone, I just would rather be alone. I know I need help and I guess that's one good thing, that I know I need it.


Fallen, are you going to counseling? Sounds like some depression is creeping in. Are you blaming yourself for anything your husband did? Are you fearful of your future? You cannot beat yourself over your husband's actions and you will find a way fwd financially. What did the attorney say about alimony?


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> fallen22 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't let several 25 year friendships go down the drain. These girls are my childhood friends and they've been there for me and I for them since kindergarten. Their the ones keeping me afloat. If I let them go I'll end up in a hospital. I'm already spiraling downhill at a rapid rate. I think I'm severely depressed and probably need to go to a doctor or therapist.
> ...


I was in counseling and it helped when I still had hope for my marriage. I haven't been in almost two months. I don't blame myself for anything he did, I just feel like this never would have happened if I'd been a better, more caring and loving wife. 

Yes I'm scared to death of my future. I have nothing but my personal belongings and even they are still with him in Nevada. Montana is a crappy state for alimony so I prolly won't be granted any. I want my things and my daughters things but I don't know if I should just go get them or wait until something is filed. I keep having these awful thoughts about another woman in my house, maybe wearing my jewelry or clothes, using my things. I want my stuff but I don't know when is an appropriate time to fetch them.

And I won't be going alone. My cousin, who is a very large man, will be taking me when I do go because he doesn't want me to go alone and will be there to make sure everything goes well. I just don't know when to go. But I want my things.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Fallen, get your belongings when you have filed. The filing should include temp orders re custody and personal belongings. Go once you have legal documents in your possession to show the police in case things go south while you're there.

Go back to counseling. A certain level of depression in your situation is normal, but if it becomes too much you may need medication temporarily to help you through the worst of it. No shame in that. I've seen a lot of people going through a painful divorce use anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety medications for 6 months or so until they could cope on their own.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Fallen, get your belongings when you have filed. The filing should include temp orders re custody and personal belongings. Go once you have legal documents in your possession to show the police in case things go south while you're there.
> 
> Go back to counseling. A certain level of depression in your situation is normal, but if it becomes too much you may need medication temporarily to help you through the worst of it. No shame in that. I've seen a lot of people going through a painful divorce use anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety medications for 6 months or so until they could cope on their own.


Ok thank you. I will do that. I have paperwork for a parenting plan. I don't know how to fill it out though so I'll need to go to the county attorney. I really don't have a choice but to file without hiring an attorney because I can't afford one. 

I had post partum depression after my daughter was born for about six months but I'm not sure if this is worse than that was or not. I'm up and down all the time. Like today, I'm ok for the most part, but yesterday and Tuesday were pretty bad. I have no shame in getting medication. I just can't afford it...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> Ok thank you. I will do that. I have paperwork for a parenting plan. I don't know how to fill it out though so I'll need to go to the county attorney. I really don't have a choice but to file without hiring an attorney because I can't afford one.
> 
> I had post partum depression after my daughter was born for about six months but I'm not sure if this is worse than that was or not. I'm up and down all the time. Like today, I'm ok for the most part, but yesterday and Tuesday were pretty bad. I have no shame in getting medication. I just can't afford it...


I did my own divorce, with kids, because I couldn't afford an attorney, either. 

In my state, the county will only accept certain forms. Other counties make their own rules. So, make sure whatever forms you have are acceptable to the county you'll be filing in.

If there is low/no income help available, use it! Also, clerks are Gods and Goddesses. They know more about how the system works and the judges than the judges do. So, if you get stuck, call and politely ask a clerk. They can't give legal advice by law here, but the will gladly point you in the right direction.

Here, if you're legally married the state counts both incomes when determining eligibility for assistance. Even if one has moved out or is denying access to the money. Once one or the other have filed for divorce, the spouses incomes are separate and the low earner who may need help would then qualify. Once you have filed for divorce, you may be able to qualify for assistance for yourself and your kids if you need help with healthcare. If not, look for sliding scale mental health services and sliding scale pharmacies. 

Here, the county has a program through certain pharmacies to cover medications for the uninsured. My $89 a month blood pressure meds only cost me $5 through the program. When I was taking anti-depressants, I was paying $1. I joined the program through the pharmacy, but was notified it existed through the health department. Do some checking, there might be something similar where you live.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> I did my own divorce, with kids, because I couldn't afford an attorney, either.
> 
> In my state, the county will only accept certain forms. Other counties make their own rules. So, make sure whatever forms you have are acceptable to the county you'll be filing in.
> 
> ...


I may be able to get legal financial assistance. I hate having to do all this work for something I don't want, but my husband has shown no initiative to file. He doesn't want us to use attorneys, probably because he knows he can't afford one and because he knows he's basically given up his rights to our daughter. He let us leave, it's been six months.....ya...

There's places I can go for sliding fee scale healthcare, and I'll be sure to make him keep our daughter on his healthcare plan. I only take two medications and one is just BC, so I don't worry much about my daily meds. Just if we were to get sick or something.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> I may be able to get legal financial assistance. I hate having to do all this work for something I don't want, but my husband has shown no initiative to file. He doesn't want us to use attorneys, probably because he knows he can't afford one and because he knows he's basically given up his rights to our daughter. He let us leave, it's been six months.....ya...
> 
> There's places I can go for sliding fee scale healthcare, and I'll be sure to make him keep our daughter on his healthcare plan. I only take two medications and one is just BC, so I don't worry much about my daily meds. Just if we were to get sick or something.


Hi Fallen22, hope your Fourth of July went well, one day at a time. 

ps
Your inbox is full. 😉
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

I was served with divorce papers today, one day before our ninth anniversary.......


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Fallen, things will only get better, your WH would have caused you a life of misery. How are you doing?


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

aine said:


> Fallen, things will only get better, your WH would have caused you a life of misery. How are you doing?


I'm awful. And my sister in law is harassing me. I just want to die.




@SlowHand, I don't think my messages are sending to you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fallen22 said:


> I'm awful. And my sister in law is harassing me. I just want to die.
> 
> @SlowHand, I don't think my messages are sending to you.


Im sorry being served has hurt you, but on a positive note, it is a step FORWARD, leading you out of the limbo you have been in. 

BLOCK your SIL. You don't need to put up with her sh!t. 

Hang in there, we are here for you.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

That's how it started. I removed her as a friend on Facebook and she went crazy telling me I shouldn't take my anger out on her and that if I remove her I best remove her husband and kid too. Then this morning I got a worse message, a text no less. I have been in tears all day long and I told my husband to tell her to back off and if she doesn't leave me alone I'll file harassment charges on her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Getting divorced is a GOOD thing!! 

PLEASE go back to counseling.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> Getting divorced is a GOOD thing!!
> 
> PLEASE go back to counseling.



How can you say that? Divorce isn't a good thing. I'm heartbroken. I didn't marry my husband so I could divorce him 9 years later. For heavens sake today is our anniversary and I'm trying to figure out how to respond to a divorce decree.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

fallen22 said:


> How can you say that? Divorce isn't a good thing. I'm heartbroken. I didn't marry my husband so I could divorce him 9 years later. For heavens sake today is our anniversary and I'm trying to figure out how to respond to a divorce decree.


Go back to the beginning of this thread and read your post and all the replies. PLEASE. Being married to this man was a horrible thing for you! Of course no one wants to end up divorced when they get married, but sometimes - including in your case - it really is for the better.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

fallen22 said:


> That's how it started. I removed her as a friend on Facebook and she went crazy telling me I shouldn't take my anger out on her and that if I remove her I best remove her husband and kid too. Then this morning I got a worse message, a text no less. I have been in tears all day long and I told my husband to tell her to back off and if she doesn't leave me alone I'll file harassment charges on her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't block her just filter the messages you don't want her to see. She is not your friend. Blood is thicker than water and she probably wants to have a foot in the issues in your marriage, do not let her. Explain to her that right now, you have a lot on your plate and if she wants to be supportive she must leave you alone to lick your wounds and heal. Do not let her drama derail your from what you must do.

If she had any consideration she would know this but she obviously doesn't care for you only herself. Let her fuss and fume, that is her problem, do not succumb to the drama


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

fallen22 said:


> How can you say that? Divorce isn't a good thing. I'm heartbroken. I didn't marry my husband so I could divorce him 9 years later. For heavens sake today is our anniversary and I'm trying to figure out how to respond to a divorce decree.


Fallen, I know you feel terrible and you now think it is the end of the world. But your WH is not going to suddenly change his mind or treat you better, it is what it is. I do not want to sound harsh or lacking in empathy cause I know the pain is deep and soul destroying but the sooner you start pulling yourself up and looking towards a future (which can be very bright) without him the better. He has treated you terribly, get angry or get mad. Make sure you go for counselling, join a church, a group something to look outwards from the problem.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Are you upset because he filed before you could? Or is it the fact that the divorce is real now that it's filed? I think most of us who have been through a divorce felt at that moment it was the end of the world -- but the truth is it's not. I thought my 45 year marriage was forever and that turned out not to be true. It's absolutely okay to mourn the end of your marriage but don't let it paralyze you and keep you from doing what you need to do to protect yourself. First, organize a trip and get your stuff. Then make a list of what you need to do and another list of what you want to do. I felt better when I could cross things off my list and know I was closer to where I needed to be. 

You'll get through this.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

I'll consider everything that's been said. I appreciate everyone's input. It's been made very complicated with him in one state and me and our daughter in another. I've spent all day on the phone and have been given hardly any answers as to what I can do and I have 19 days now to get an answer back to the courthouse down there.

I'm so tired. So so tired.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Are you upset because he filed before you could? Or is it the fact that the divorce is real now that it's filed? I think most of us who have been through a divorce felt at that moment it was the end of the world -- but the truth is it's not. I thought my 45 year marriage was forever and that turned out not to be true. It's absolutely okay to mourn the end of your marriage but don't let it paralyze you and keep you from doing what you need to do to protect yourself. First, organize a trip and get your stuff. Then make a list of what you need to do and another list of what you want to do. I felt better when I could cross things off my list and know I was closer to where I needed to be.
> 
> You'll get through this.


I'm upset because papers have been filed and now it's real. I couldn't get myself to file papers and now I'm paying for it. I called a women's resource center today and have a meeting with an attorney this afternoon. I have less than 20 days now to get papers back to Nevada. I'm going to file a parenting plan and file for custody if I can. I was told by another attorney I could file for custody once my six month mark of being in Montana had passed and it has. He's asking for primary custody on the divorce papers and I can't stand the thought of my daughter being taken from me too.

She came with me when I left because he told me to take her with me. That we needed our space and she came with me. Now he wants her back. I can't lose my daughter too. It's hard enough losing my husband and marriage. I won't go get my things until the divorce is final. My cousin will be taking me and he'll keep me safe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

For anyone who has gone through divorce with children, I need your honest opinion. He filed first, in Nevada, one day before my six month residency in Montana had occurred. So Nevada has jurisdiction over everything.

I can get jurisdiction changed but it isn't likely it will happen. My attorney told me the best thing to do right now is just send back the divorce answer papers and include why she would be better off with me. She's already established here, in school here, enrolled in the after school program which is also a summer program that includes trips to the pool and swimming lessons. My entire family is here to help, she and I have a huge support system here.

He doesn't have that in Nevada and his work hours are very long. He also works 8 days on and 6 off, roughly 10-11 hour days with no way to get her to school in the morning and have her picked up. If the bus were to take her after school I don't know where she'd go. The bus can't pick her up because she'd be home alone. He leaves for work around 5-5:30 in the morning and doesn't typically get home till 4:30 or 5.

My question is: what are the chances the judge will grant me primary custody? I work 7-8 hours a day and have Friday's off which she is also off from school here. My mom and sister both work until 2 pm and can pick her up from school if I needed them to. I also have two cousins, an uncle and a brother in law here. They also will watch her for me if need be. We've been here a little over six months and have not left the state. The benefits for her here far outweigh those she'd have in Nevada. 

I can't lose my daughter because he made bad choices and wanted a divorce when I wanted to reconcile.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Anyone??


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

fallen22 said:


> Anyone??


The question is hard to answer because of all the unknowns. In some jurisdictions a woman is almost always guaranteed to get custody no matter who may be the better parent. Some judges will almost always go with a 50/50 split in order to not decide who a better parent may be. 

You being in a different state complicates things. It's standard fare in divorce that both spouses ask for primary custody because of the child support implications. 

The more prepared with parenting plan etc etc the better chance you have. Just telling a judge you can't live without the child does little to sway opinion. Once a judge is assigned a lawyer will be better able to tell you how that judge views/rules in custody cases. Most judges follow a pretty consistent pattern.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

He doesn't have an attorney. The divorce papers were filed by him. I also don't have one right at the moment but I should be getting one soon. 

I'm not sure if I can file a parenting plan or not. I know I had to wait for divorce papers to be filed to do that but he filed in Nevada. I'm having to respond with Nevada papers which I was able to find online. Should I file a Montana parenting plan since that is where she and I live?

I got a text from him tonight asking for time with her, that he can't come up here to see her because he can't afford it and needs and wants time with her. I understand that and want her to have time with her dad but I know he knows that right now if she were to leave the state he would have custody of her. What do I do? I tried calling the attorney twice today, talked to his secretary twice and she left a message with him both times and I never heard back.

I'm panicking.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

fallen22 said:


> He doesn't have an attorney. The divorce papers were filed by him. I also don't have one right at the moment but I should be getting one soon.
> 
> I'm not sure if I can file a parenting plan or not. I know I had to wait for divorce papers to be filed to do that but he filed in Nevada. I'm having to respond with Nevada papers which I was able to find online. Should I file a Montana parenting plan since that is where she and I live?
> 
> ...


From here on out keep a record every conversation (tape it) and everything written. Tell him he can see his daughter but you are not travelling to see him, you don't have the money either. HIs lack of money is not your problem. Start thinking as a single mother, you owe your H nothing.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Considering he has lived in a seperate state for 6 months, I doubt he'd get full custody unless you screw up. One possible way to screw up is to give the impression you are denying parenting time. You don't want to be accused of parental alienation. BUT, you can certainly tell your STBXH that you cannot take a trip to his state due to work and finances, invite him to visit the child in your state, and offer to have your child use Skype to talk to him.

I have the feeling his text about visiting with your shared child was more or less him trying to get evidence that you are inhibiting parenting time. Be very careful how you respond to anything and everything sent by him or his family/friends. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court. Anything they can do to make you look unstable or like you hate them and will poison the child against them may come back to bite you in the azz, even if it wasn't your intention. They can take things out of context, so be very careful with phrasing.

You are now at war. His family and friends are the enemy. Delete them from social media. All of them. Ignore their emails and texts. DO NOT get sucked into arguments, debates, or drama.

By the way, I'd bet my last $5 your STBXH waited until the near the 6 month residency mark to file on purpose. I'd also bet his OW is his daycare plan.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Considering he has lived in a seperate state for 6 months, I doubt he'd get full custody unless you screw up. One possible way to screw up is to give the impression you are denying parenting time. You don't want to be accused of parental alienation. BUT, you can certainly tell your STBXH that you cannot take a trip to his state due to work and finances, invite him to visit the child in your state, and offer to have your child use Skype to talk to him.
> 
> I have the feeling his text about visiting with your shared child was more or less him trying to get evidence that you are inhibiting parenting time. Be very careful how you respond to anything and everything sent by him or his family/friends. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court. Anything they can do to make you look unstable or like you hate them and will poison the child against them may come back to bite you in the azz, even if it wasn't your intention. They can take things out of context, so be very careful with phrasing.
> 
> ...


I responded to his text with this: "I understand you need and want time with her and I want that for her and you too. But as it stands you filed for custody and that means that she goes with you in a month unless the judge decides otherwise. I don't want to give up my last month I have with her if the judge rules in favor of your request. I would like to wait and see what the judge says. I feel that's fair."

The only person in his family I speak to is my mother in law. I trust her completely, she's always supported me. Everyone else, no I do not contact them or respond to them if they contact me. I'm sure that he did file one day before on purpose. His psychotic sister probably put him up to it. She's crazy. I honestly don't believe he's still seeing the other woman, she has just as crazy of a schedule as he does, she's an exploration geologist and has her life wrapped up in her work. People in mining rarely have free time. Their work hours are long and unaccommodating.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@fallen22

Yeah, I thought my exMIL was my friend, too, as I trusted her and she was always supportive of me. Took me about 4 years after the divorce was final to realize her son was her priority and that anything I said to her or did in her presence made it immediately back to my exH.

I also thought the last OW wsa out of the picture and allowed my exH to take the girls for his weekend visitation. Sunday, he notified me he wasn't giving them back as his OW could watch them while he was at work. The ONLY reason I was able to get my girls back without having to fight it out in court was that the OW I thought was out of the picture decided watching a 6 year old and a 1 year old was too much bother.

Trust those of us who have been there. His family is NOT your family anymore and if he doesn't still have an OW, I'm a virgin.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

@MJJEAN

I understand what you're telling me. I really do. I have plenty of people in my family who can vouch for my mother in law. My brother in laws ex wife can also say the same thing. She was always there for both of us. They are still good friends. I realize you're trying to protect me from more heartache but I can promise I have nothing to worry about with her. My MIL's step daughter, my husbands half sister, tries to bully and control my MIL. I have seen it first hand. The way she now treats me because of the divorce is how she has treated my MIL for years, since she was a kid. I can promise you that my MIL is an honest, loving person. I won't allow anyone to sway my opinion of her. I'm the only one here who knows her. I am as close to her as my own mother, and my mom can attest to her trustworthiness as well.

As far as the other woman goes, I don't know. Honestly don't care anymore. What concerns me with it is if my daughter is granted primary custody to her dad, and she is there. I don't know how to handle that one.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

fallen22 said:


> @MJJEAN
> 
> I understand what you're telling me. I really do. I have plenty of people in my family who can vouch for my mother in law. My brother in laws ex wife can also say the same thing. She was always there for both of us. They are still good friends. I realize you're trying to protect me from more heartache but I can promise I have nothing to worry about with her. My MIL's step daughter, my husbands half sister, tries to bully and control my MIL. I have seen it first hand. The way she now treats me because of the divorce is how she has treated my MIL for years, since she was a kid. I can promise you that my MIL is an honest, loving person. I won't allow anyone to sway my opinion of her. I'm the only one here who knows her. I am as close to her as my own mother, and my mom can attest to her trustworthiness as well.
> 
> As far as the other woman goes, I don't know. Honestly don't care anymore. What concerns me with it is if my daughter is granted primary custody to her dad, and she is there. I don't know how to handle that one.


Just be careful what you tell her anyway. She doesn't need to know anything sensitive that she could accidentally let slip to your STBX.

The reality is that there isn't much you can do about the OW being around your child, if there still is one, unless she has done something provable to indicate she is a danger to the child. Some states allow morality clauses. Usually, the morality clause says no unrelated members of the opposite sex can stay in the home when the child is in residence. However, that doesn't mean that the opposite sex person can't be there from, say, 9 am until 2 am. Long as they don't sleep over.

Can you prove your STBXH told you to take your little girl with you out of state? That would likely go a long way toward making sure your STBXH doesn't get primary custody.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Just be careful what you tell her anyway. She doesn't need to know anything sensitive that she could accidentally let slip to your STBX.
> 
> The reality is that there isn't much you can do about the OW being around your child, if there still is one, unless she has done something provable to indicate she is a danger to the child. Some states allow morality clauses. Usually, the morality clause says no unrelated members of the opposite sex can stay in the home when the child is in residence. However, that doesn't mean that the opposite sex person can't be there from, say, 9 am until 2 am. Long as they don't sleep over.
> 
> Can you prove your STBXH told you to take your little girl with you out of state? That would likely go a long way toward making sure your STBXH doesn't get primary custody.


I"ll be careful of what i say to people. I don't think anyone is staying in my house but if they are they are. I haven't been there in six months. I have a text from me to him that states the separation, specifically that we agreed I'd leave, then days later I told him I wanted to stay and he said it would be best for him if she and I left. I asked him in the text if he recalled all of that and he said yes I recall that. That is my proof. About all I have too. I had every message we'd sent to each other, but lost most of them because I didn't realize my phone was set to automatically delete texts after 30 days.

I'll be sending my response papers today or tomorrow. I will feel better once they are in the courts possession.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

fallen22 said:


> For anyone who has gone through divorce with children, I need your honest opinion. He filed first, in Nevada, one day before my six month residency in Montana had occurred. So Nevada has jurisdiction over everything.
> 
> I can get jurisdiction changed but it isn't likely it will happen. My attorney told me the best thing to do right now is just send back the divorce answer papers and include why she would be better off with me. She's already established here, in school here, enrolled in the after school program which is also a summer program that includes trips to the pool and swimming lessons. My entire family is here to help, she and I have a huge support system here.
> 
> ...


Sadly, it is more than likely that a judge will grant a 50/50 split here. Have you thought of moving back to the state your husband is ta so that you can share custody more easily?


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> Sadly, it is more than likely that a judge will grant a 50/50 split here. Have you thought of moving back to the state your husband is ta so that you can share custody more easily?


No I can't even consider moving back. I can't afford to live there let alone find a job there. That's completely out of the question. My entire family is in Montana, I have nothing in Nevada.

She can't go to school in Nevada one year and the next in Montana. She is going to have to live with one of us for the school year. That's just how it is. I won't go back to Nevada.


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## fallen22 (Apr 28, 2015)

Hey all, I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or continue on this one, so here I am. Guess I made up my mind lol. Just wanted to post an update for those of you who so graciously helped me get through a rough time in my life. I am near the completion of my divorce, it should be final in a couple months, fingers crossed. I have my daughter, and it's looking like it's going to stay that way. I have been doing well. I have a new SO in my life, and he is absolutely wonderful. We are in a LDR, roughly 700 miles apart, but we've made it work quite well. We have met up with each other three times since dating, twice where I live and once where he lives. He's just so amazing and I am genuinely happy again. Who'd have thought lol.

I hope everyone here is doing well 

PS- Slow Hand, my inbox is FULL


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