# 'Redpillers' Have not Actually Taken the Red Pill



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

I think the 'Red Pill' is fantastic. Amazing. It is a shame most men proclaiming the red pill have not actually taken it.

Before the red pill many have this idea in life. You are a decent man, you should be able to find a decent woman. You should appreciate her and she should appreciate you. The End.

Thinking there is a way the world should be rather than the way it is, is the road to misery.

The truth is you will do anything you can to be happy and go wherever you think that is, which is typically wrong because you have the wrong idea of who 'you' are. The partner you find will be the same. Neither of us are fixed, out outlook is determined my our biology, our experiences and cultural background; all of which are changing all the time.

There are gold diggers, often they do not start that way, but suddenly are surprised to find that financial inducement makes them feel valued and run after happiness that way. The proper reaction to that is compassion, unless you think they should be another way and appreciate you instead.

The reason some men get stuck in the friend-zone is that they are not sexually attractive enough to the target of their affections. Fine, unless they think that there their targets should desire them and they get upset. 

I know a girl who went out with a lad for six months. He was patient and did not push her for sex, as she had been through a hard time with an abusive partner. After six months and no sexual contact they parted ways. The next man along took her out twice and they started having sex. 

A 'Redpiller' might use this as evidence that being understanding gets you nowhere and you have to be Alpha. In actual fact, understand that she wanted intimacy and sexual contact, but needed the reassurance of a man who realized this and was like an experienced surgeon "You're scared? Of course, but you will see there is no need to worry!" rather than "Oh, you are so hurt and fragile, we must be really careful". It was not being alpha as such, but actually being sensitive to her needs. 

The red pill says that to have a connection with people you must understand their needs and wants as they are and as they see them. Many redpillers just focus on their own needs and get angry as the world does not conform. If they actually took the red pill, they would see people more clearly, have a better connection with them and actually care for them more.


----------



## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

So are you saying that men need to be Alpha with a sensitive side? 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

MrsAldi said:


> So are you saying that men need to be Alpha with a sensitive side?
> 
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


yes, which is very RP


----------



## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Mr The Other said:


> I know a girl who went out with a lad for six months. He was patient and did not push her for sex, as she had been through a hard time with an abusive partner. After six months and no sexual contact they parted ways. The next man along took her out twice and they started having sex.


That's it? Guy 1 no sex failed, guy 2 sex after two dates succeeded? 
Is that actually the message of the example? Successful relationships are two way streets.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Haiku said:


> That's it? Guy 1 no sex failed, guy 2 sex after two dates succeeded?
> Is that actually the message of the example? Successful relationships are two way streets.


Maybe the first guy was what she needed at that time, and the second guy reaped the benefits. We can't know. But, I don't think it was the second guy being alpha, so much as he was confident that he could be a positive factor in her life while also getting his needs met. Of course, the first guy may have been the classic "nice guy" - with a covert contract. The second guy could even be a so-called "beta" but still be confident and _genuinely _caring without having to try so-called "alpha" a**hole techniques to game his way into her bed.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Mr The Other said:


> The reason some men get stuck in the friend-zone is that they are not sexually attractive enough to the target of their affections. Fine, unless they think that there their targets should desire them and they get upset.
> 
> I know a girl who went out with a lad for six months. He was patient and did not push her for sex, as she had been through a hard time with an abusive partner. After six months and no sexual contact they parted ways. The next man along took her out twice and they started having sex.


This seems like nonsense. My takeaway from that is guy #1 has no self respect and guy #2 does. Guy #1 comprised his need for sex to appease a woman. 

Look people will get away with what you let them get away with. I fault guy #1 who has no standards he adheres too. If he "expects" sex on the 2nd date and he didn't make a move towards it and continued to date her as a celibate then that's HIS problem.

Guy #2 more than likely made it clear he was looking for sex and if she wasn't interested he would look elsewhere. So she choose to sex him up to keep him around. Why should she put out for guy #1 if he sits there passively with his covert contracts waiting to be "awarded". Not to mention it's also repulsive behavior to a woman.

This whole scenario is ridiculous and passive aggressive. If you want something, ask for it. If you don't get it, leave the relationship and find a new person who will meet your needs. People put up with too much crap for far too long then have the nerve to whine about it. Seriously, look in the mirror.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I agree that there are a lot of people who claim to have taken the red pill who actually haven't done the work necessary to benefit from the knowledge it conveys.

But this is true of anything that requires any work, so it's not a failing of the red pill philosophy itself, but of those who don't actually adhere to it in action.

Which I think is what you are saying, so we seem to be in violent agreement. :smile2:


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I think what many people here are calling the red pill

I just call AWARENESS


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

MrsAldi said:


> So are you saying that men need to be Alpha with a sensitive side?


Broadly, yes. It is more about letting going of unwritten contracts and feelings of how the world should treat you and how you deserve to be treated. Put that aside and things are easier. Sometimes, rants about alpha seem to have an underlying anger that women do not respond as they the upset man thinks they should and the man is not getting the sex he thinks he should. The use of the word "should" is a danger sign.



Haiku said:


> That's it? Guy 1 no sex failed, guy 2 sex after two dates succeeded?
> Is that actually the message of the example? Successful relationships are two way streets.


It is intended as an example of how a situation could be used by men who argue to a crude philosophy of being alpha as much as possible at all moments. That would be to misunderstand how people are. The truth is taking yourself our of the center is often key. This focusses on sex as that is what most people who consider themselves redpillers measure success by.



Married but Happy said:


> Maybe the first guy was what she needed at that time, and the second guy reaped the benefits. We can't know. But, I don't think it was the second guy being alpha, so much as he was confident that he could be a positive factor in her life while also getting his needs met. Of course, the first guy may have been the classic "nice guy" - with a covert contract. The second guy could even be a so-called "beta" but still be confident and _genuinely _caring without having to try so-called "alpha" a**hole techniques to game his way into her bed.


Indeed. And I am sure neither of us would measure the success of a relationship by the amount of sex alone. The first guy might have been very good for her in many ways, though perhaps had the wrong approach for a sexual relationship. The second guy in this case was actually more playful and actually understood what reassurance she needed for that step. Both had their value.



tech-novelist said:


> I agree that there are a lot of people who claim to have taken the red pill who actually haven't done the work necessary to benefit from the knowledge it conveys.
> 
> But this is true of anything that requires any work, so it's not a failing of the red pill philosophy itself, but of those who don't actually adhere to it in action.
> 
> Which I think is what you are saying, so we seem to be in violent agreement. :smile2:


I think you put it very well! Often people are into the red pill, but it is as if most people who called themselves vegetarians actually lived off Burger King meals and ranted and raved on the internet about how angry they are that their food is so mean to them and gives them man-boobs and bad skin.


----------



## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Thank you.



Mr The Other said:


> This focusses on sex as that is what most people who consider themselves redpillers measure success by.


Oh oh. That spells disaster here.


----------



## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> This seems like nonsense. My takeaway from that is guy #1 has no self respect and guy #2 does. Guy #1 comprised his need for sex to appease a woman.
> 
> Look people will get away with what you let them get away with. I fault guy #1 who has no standards he adheres too. If he "expects" sex on the 2nd date and he didn't make a move towards it and continued to date her as a celibate then that's HIS problem.
> 
> ...












Preach it, man, preach it!


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MrsAldi said:


> So are you saying that men need to be Alpha with a sensitive side?


It depends on what brand of birth control pills he is taking! Some companies use red pills to indicate the pills that are just placeboes, or to help count out the cycle. The idea that these pills are red is also a visual aid that this is when your period will occur:










Other companies use the red pill to indicate the pills with hormones and white pills for the placeboes:










So I kind of think this whole topic of redpillars gets confusing, as some men are taking the pills with actual hormones while others are just taking placeboes. 

These guys are delusional if you ask me. Obviously if he is taking her birth control pills thinking she does not have to, she is going to get pregnant and things ARE ABOUT TO GET REAL!!!!!

Badsanta


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> This seems like nonsense. My takeaway from that is guy #1 has no self respect and guy #2 does. Guy #1 comprised his need for sex to appease a woman.
> 
> Look people will get away with what you let them get away with. I fault guy #1 who has no standards he adheres too. If he "expects" sex on the 2nd date and he didn't make a move towards it and continued to date her as a celibate then that's HIS problem.
> 
> ...


I am not sure you read my post. I am not Guy#1 in this scenario. Guy#1 made what he wanted clear, was patient, it did not happen so he moved on. Guy#2 was not explicit (though it was clear), but the difference was seeing the hang-up and managing to make it fun to discard it, which actually required listening and understanding. She had an understandable hang up, the best way to get over the hang up was not by making a big deal about it, either in the insidious 'nice guy' way, nor in the alpha "yeah, whatever, this is what I want or I am off". 

It is only one story, the example was not to show something typical, but to show that a red-piller who still puts himself at the center of the story and thinks it is just a case of demanding what he deserves has spectacularly missed the point. The point is that you are not very important, which is the awareness I think @ButtPunch refers to. Ideas of what you feel you need to be happy are ideas you get into your head and you are freer and happier without them. In the scenario as you describe it, both men were very needy.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Mr The Other said:


> I am not sure you read my post. I am not Guy#1 in this scenario. Guy#1 made what he wanted clear, was patient, it did not happen so he moved on. Guy#2 was not explicit (though it was clear), but the difference was seeing the hang-up and managing to make it fun to discard it, which actually required listening and understanding. She had an understandable hang up, the best way to get over the hang up was not by making a big deal about it, either in the insidious 'nice guy' way, nor in the alpha "yeah, whatever, this is what I want or I am off".
> 
> It is only one story, the example was not to show something typical, but to show that a red-piller who still puts himself at the center of the story and thinks it is just a case of demanding what he deserves has spectacularly missed the point. The point is that you are not very important, which is the awareness I think @ButtPunch refers to. Ideas of what you feel you need to be happy are ideas you get into your head and you are freer and happier without them. In the scenario as you describe it, both men were very needy.


I assumed the story was hypothetical or about a friend of yours. I'm not sure why you think I thought you were guy #1... 

My point is guy #1 shouldn't be comparing himself to guy #2. That's where the offense for him is coming from right?!? That because guy #2 got laid a lot faster its NOT FAIR to him. That's covert contractual garbage. Obviously six months was okay for guy #1 (because he waited) until it wasn't (when guy #2 got it faster). If guy #1 waited so long that is ON HIM. If he wasn't happy being patient he should of left, period. He could of dumped her at anytime and moved on. She can fvck whoever she wants as soon as she wants. Guy #1 needs to worry about himself rather than hating on a dude who obviously made his intentions far more transparent. 

Guy #1 was probably your typical beta nice guy but remember nice guys who "expect things in return" are not TRULY nice guys. IMO just cowards who won't go after what they want. If she was all screwed up from her last bf who was abusive then he shouldn't of even dated her to begin with. Now guy #2 reaps the benefits of his KISA / Mr. Fix-it persona. Again, guy #1's FAULT, he needs to be dating women, not fixing them. And why do you think guy #2 is needy? He was smashing this girl on the second date. If anything SHE'S the one reeking of "can't be alone" syndrome and neediness sleeping with someone she hardly knows.


----------



## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

Mr The Other said:


> I am not sure you read my post. I am not Guy#1 in this scenario. Guy#1 made what he wanted clear, was patient, it did not happen so he moved on. Guy#2 was not explicit (though it was clear), but the difference was seeing the hang-up and managing to make it fun to discard it, which actually required listening and understanding. She had an understandable hang up, the best way to get over the hang up was not by making a big deal about it, either in the insidious 'nice guy' way, nor in the alpha "yeah, whatever, this is what I want or I am off".
> 
> It is only one story, the example was not to show something typical, but to show that a red-piller who still puts himself at the center of the story and thinks it is just a case of demanding what he deserves has spectacularly missed the point. The point is that you are not very important, which is the awareness I think @ButtPunch refers to. *Ideas of what you feel you need to be happy are ideas you get into your head and you are freer and happier without them.* In the scenario as you describe it, both men were very needy.


Mr. Other, you have explained succinctly and clearly more about the Red Pill than many gurus have. So let me ask you, in the area I put in bold above, what would you suggest one does to get to this state?


----------



## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

https://youtu.be/HK7n_XA40V8

Let's forget about sex for a minute & look at real issues. 
I have 5 brothers and someday I will probably have a son. 
We need clarity on what is truly going on.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Jayg14 said:


> Mr. Other, you have explained succinctly and clearly more about the Red Pill than many gurus have. So let me ask you, in the area I put in bold above, what would you suggest one does to get to this state?


Thank you for this kind comment. It was from this forum that I was first referred to Anthony Demello's 'Awareness'. 

That in turn reminded me of many of the things I had been taught in my spiritual tradition (Catholic in my case, but I think they almost all offer a route to the same insight) that finally started to sink in. If people have a spiritual background, it is the best place to start.


----------



## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

Mr The Other said:


> Thank you for this kind comment. It was from this forum that I was first referred to Anthony Demello's 'Awareness'.
> 
> That in turn reminded me of many of the things I had been taught in my spiritual tradition (Catholic in my case, but I think they almost all offer a route to the same insight) that finally started to sink in. If people have a spiritual background, it is the best place to start.


So, I should read awareness and I'll then know what to do to get to this state?


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I think a fallacy here is some people think guy #2 is naturally more alpha than guy #1 to have sex on the second date. For all we know he was more beta than guy #1, but was the type of guy she really wanted. There are just too many variables at play to know for sure what really transpired.


----------



## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

This is probably off-topic, but I'm wondering if we should start our own sub-forum for Red-Pill, MGTOW, PUA stuff since there seem to be so many of these threads floating around nowadays.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> This is probably off-topic, but I'm wondering if we should start our own sub-forum for Red-Pill, MGTOW, PUA stuff since there seem to be so many of these threads floating around nowadays.


just call it battle of the sexes


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> I think a fallacy here is some people think guy #2 is naturally more alpha than guy #1 to have sex on the second date. For all we know he was more beta than guy #1, but was the type of guy she really wanted. There are just too many variables at play to know for sure what really transpired.


This was a rel life example. In my opinion, and what I was trying to express, the talk about alpha/beta was a complete red-herring.

The mistake was putting all the emphasis on the man and not the woman. The second man understood her better than the first man and focused on her emotional needs not his own. This sounds classic beta, but the point is that what the woman wanted was a close sexual, casual, but intimate relationship. What was holding her back was nervousness. 

As I mentioned in the OP, many see the difference as the second man being more confident. In actual fact, as soon as you understand the lady, the approach was straight forward. Fun, playful and sexual, whether that was in a beta or alpha way is beside the point.

The point is that it is not all about the man at all. Not being self-obsessed or neurotic was key. 



JukeboxHero said:


> This is probably off-topic, but I'm wondering if we should start our own sub-forum for Red-Pill, MGTOW, PUA stuff since there seem to be so many of these threads floating around nowadays.


There are plenty of Red-Pill, MGTOW, PUA forums and I suspect you would be the redpillers who are like vegetarians who only eat at Burger King. You would get men obsessed with seeing women as an object to compete over.
---------------------------------------------------------


I find that I think I am explicit on this forum, but am misunderstood so often that the fault must lie with me. I will try and spell out what I mean a little more, sorry for the waffle.

It is like there are three stages:
1) A man thinks he is a decent man and deserves certain things, therefore they should naturally follow. This is not unlike what modern relationship understanding is like; "Women are looking for a decent man", that the man is responsible for the relationship rather than the woman, and the plot of many Hollywood films and TV shows. Therefore, he signs up happily to the secret contract and looks forward to having sex and a satisfying marriage.

2) A man discovers that despite being a decent man, the women are not flocking to him. He gets annoyed and angry. Women a re meant to be passive objects like natural elements, but they do not respond in the way that orthodox relationship advice, or TV shows illustrate.

3) A man realizes that the deal is nonsense, that women are all different things and that generic advice is useless. Rather than being a correct way to behave, which decent women will follow and only a few defective ones reject, instead most women believe they are the central figures in their own relationship stories and that the man is at most a supporting character, at worst barely an extra. 
Red Pill Interpretation 1: She thinks you are nothing and does not realize you are the star of the show. This is terrible. You have to prove otherwise and make her realize otherwise you are an unimportant nobody!
- I think this is flawed. I write this as a way I think many people who call themselves redpillers think, but realizing that other do not see them as the central figure is not taking the red pill, it is merely seeing the pill and getting upset and having to take/accept that pill.

4) Actually taking the red pill. You are not an important person. You are clinging to an identity that is meaningless and are convinced that this central person has to get their way or it will be terrible. Most people feel the same and it cause great struggles. 
When a woman does not want to have sex with you, it is not an issue about you, it is an insight into her life. It could be you are just not attractive, or no connection, or that she has issues, but that you are upset of not having your way is not the big issue. 
ed Pill Interpretation 2 (not consistent with the first): It is not all about you. You are needy because of insecurities, so is she. They are both silly and made up but real anyway. If you want to make a connection with her, you have to focus on her story and not the nonsense, orthodox relationship advice and not your own hang-ups.

This is what Guy #2 did right, understand what was going on in her mind. He could offer the lead, as he understood what she wanted and needed in that particular moment (which was non-threatening alpha, but might have been something else in at another time). We all make plenty of mistakes, but many of the people who shout that it is all about step 3 are clearly angry and self-obsessed.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Jayg14 said:


> So, I should read awareness and I'll then know what to do to get to this state?


Here is a section from it:
"Do you think I am going to help anybody? No! Oh, no, no, no, no, no! Don't expect me to be of help to anyone. Nor do I expect to damage anyone. If you are damaged, you did it; and if you are helped, you did it. You really did! You think people help you? They don't. You think people support you? They don't"
It is actually very cheerful.

http://coursesweb.net/blog/dwl/awareness_anthony_de_mello.pdf

Or buy from amazon


----------

