# He won't meet w/me to discuss our marriage



## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

We have been back and forth for years. I was last on this forum in 2009 and it's still the same old song and dance.

We can get along just fine IF:
1) I am perfect and don't make mistakes or do the things that get on his nerves 
2) I accept his angry criticism for doing the things that get on his nerves (like leave coffee mug in car cup holder, leave keys in my purse instead of key holder, not go to bed first so I can give a shot) without trying to explain or point out that he does the same thing too
3) Not spend any money and Not point out that he spends money hand over fist.
4) Not ask him to do anything around the house, yard, etc EVER -even if it's his mess, his stuff and it has sat there 10 months. Not his responsibility (but don't dare throw it away either because he is going to go through it "later")
5) Do not expect sex from him EVER but never, ever, ever turn him down either.
6) Accept every weird, odd story that he tells without following up or questioning the inconsistencies.
7) Think it's completely normal that he is only one of three business partners that has to go do all these extra errands, work late nightly, etc. Think is completely normal that a man takes a shower as soon as he gets home from working at a office job, takes his phone to the bathroom, steps outside to text a client, has a $55 payment to a prepaid phone because he had to stop at a rest area to use someone's MIFI and paid them in minutes (he said it was a guy -but the phone belongs to an 18 year old girl who may be a hooker).
8) Never criticize him EVER. If I try, expect to be screamed at "SHUT UP" until I finally give up. 
9) No matter if it's his fault, I should apologize without expecting one back. If I can not bring myself to apologize and admit I was wrong, I need to at least pretend nothing is wrong.
10) Don't tell him his kids think he's cheating because he will be mad not concerned. He will be mad at all if you question anything he says in a way that leads him to believe he was cheating. Never concerned -always mad (or mad if you questioned where money went, etc). If he tells me not to question him and I do, then I get kicked out (of the office, the house) -never mind that he's cheated in the past and lied over and over, I should just trust him.
11) Expect to get kicked out of the house about every other month and then when you proceed to pack stuff, etc. He acts like it's your idea and he "never said that" -dude it's right here in text!!!!
12) Don't cry because that will make him even colder.
13) Think it's reasonable that a man sleeps on this couch because he is mad at his wife (but doesn't say anything until she asks -just doesn't come up) because She's "too lazy" -mad because I went to bed early (sick) while our daughter was at a party and he went "had" to go pick her up at a house 5 minutes away (never mind the fact that I offered to get up and go myself or ride with him)
14) Don't expect a response when you do apologize.

IN short -everything is my fault. None of it his.


ANyway -I have emailed him to ask him to meet. He couldn't meet that day nor the next and I asked him which day he could meet -no answer. I told him it was important to me and I needed him to prioritize this. No answer. I emailed again two days later - no answer. How can we proceed with repair or ending if he won't even talk to me about it (he'll talk about politics, dinner, anything else but "us")

Oh in our state -if I leave, he has the upper hand in the divorce because I would have abandoned the home (and he knows that). I can't just file for a divorce -we have to be separated a year and day first. We have two teens and lots financial debt (plus we homeschooled until this year so I'm in process of job hunting). It's not one of those "just leave" cases . I don't want to leave until we work out an agreement of some sort. (and I don't want to take him to the cleaners or anything -I just want to deal with the issues or just move on already -it's been over a decade of this dance!)


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Are you venting (which is perfectly fine), or do you have a question?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

Both 

venting yes -it is so pent up I am about to explode

But I really need some ideas on HOW to move this forward. How do I go about divorcing this man if I can't "just leave" nor get him to agree to discuss it?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you talked to a lawyer to get an understanding of your legal options? Because your explanation of "abandonment" doesn't seem quite right. There has to be a process to separate for the required year without someone getting tagged with abandonment, even if the other person doesn't want to play nice. 

What have you done to investigate infidelity? Because that might be an option to have him booted from the home. 

How's the job hunt going? From the sounds of things, depending on him for support seems risky. So the sooner you can get self-sufficient, the better. 

Finally, what about other forms of support? Do you have family you can ask for help?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would say that you getting into therapy might do it, as the IC might help you see you deserve more than this sham of a marriage.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

We tried couples counseling -can't afford it right now and he probably wouldn't go. It doesn't help as it was a Christian Counseling program that our church paid for. He's the man- he's right and I'm not submissive enough kind of deal. 

I can't afford a counselor on my own. I will look up to see if I can get it via our insurance but he will throw a fit about that as it's an HSA.

Job hunt is going -finally got resume together, references together, a basic cover letter going through and looking at interview questions to be prepared. I have it out to some jobs but not many bites yet. I will likely have to take a very low paying job just to get a job.

I have made a list of lawyers to call to have a consultation next week.

No family close by -they have no money to help.

I have no real way of tracking infidelity legally -He does not leave his cell phone alone. It is a company phone and the bill goes to the office so I can't access it. Ditto Laptop. I don't know his passwords anymore for anything. When I have been able to be on it -he has his history erased. He would likely use an email that I don't know since I caught him last time via email/texts.

His credit card statement goes to the office.

GPS tracker would not be useful as we switch cars so much and he travels around town for work a lot. Plus there is a couple of company cars that he uses a lot. 

Unless I catch him in the act itself, he will just lie and he would probably lie if I caught him in the act. Last time I caught him (EA as far I know but probably more), he lied and then I would uncover that lie and he'd tell me another lie ad infinitum. I never got the truth there.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're in the US, you have access to low-cost therapy; look up your city/county agencies, or try United Way.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What about a VAR?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

I sent a message asking to talk on Monday and was blown off. I asked on Wednesday and was ignored. On Friday morning, he finally hugged me in bed and said, "YOu drive me nuts but I love you." and I said, "I love you too but we still need to talk." Today, I sent an email saying that I love him but can't live this way and we need to talk and come to some kind of compromise. If he didn't agree to talk to me by 8:00 tomorrow (exactly one week from the first request) then I would proceed to call a lawyer to work on a separation agreement. 

I got back that he does not "do ultimatums" and it was no use talking because it would just be all his fault. Then proceeded to tell me everything that he thinks is wrong with me. THen he closed with if I wanted to see a lawyer that was fine but he wished I wouldn't.

This follows our typical pattern:

A) Husband is not happy and points out what is wrong with wife on a regular basis.
B) Wife then becomes unhappy and wants to express what she feels.
C) Husband either yells at her to shut up, says he doesn’t want to talk about and kicks her out of the office or out of the home or just gives the silent treatment
D) Wife points out that something is wrong with this dynamic and wants to discuss and come to a compromise
E) Husband doesn’t want to discuss 
F) Husband ignores requests and pleas until Wife makes an ultimatum 
G) Wife says now he won’t talk because she made an ultimatum (He wouldn’t talk before the ultimatum because???????) ** This step is optional -the ultimatum rarely happens but we do go straight to H fairly quickly. 
H) Husband then says there is no use talking because Wife will just be a victim (Says this every time. Translate: Husband doesn’t want to hear that he is not perfect so he passively aggressively plays the victim). To date, Wife has never been able to even express how it's "all his fault" or even that anything is his fault so not sure where this comes from.
I) Then husband proceeds to tell wife everything that is wrong -how she doesn't respect him, how she has a life outside of him that she wants to share with him, how he's worried about his job and finances and how the finances are everyone elses fault -especially the teen daughter (that he hates), and how wife continues to do the same annoying things over and over (like leave keys in her purse instead of hanging them up or not carrying her coffee cup from house to car -many things that he himself does on a regular basis too).

Now in the past it continues as such
J)Wife apologizes for what she does wrong
K)Wife offers sex to make up.
L)Wife doesn’t mention what husband does that bothers her so that they have temporary peace. She continues to ignore it.
M) Husband doesn’t apologize for anything or ever acknowledge what he does (the closest he ever comes is when he says “There is no use talking because Ami is the victim –still no acknowledgement in his role). 
N) Husband continues on with his life without regard to wife’s feelings until wife screws up again or asks that he do something again. Then we start over at A.


So right now we just finished I. It's time for J but this time, I want to change the pattern. This is getting old.


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## Kolors (Sep 27, 2013)

Unhappy is unhappy. I tried doing all the little stupid things my ex complained about and it didn't help, she just found new things to be unhappy about. We had a cycle as well for about 8years. Eventually I wised up and moved on.

Also, if guys tell the same old stories over and over and the details change slightly over time, don't call us out on them. The color of Jims f250 is irrelevant or if it was June or July. Just be happy we are talking.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It's time to start stock piling some cash and come up with a plan and work the plan....and it's pretty clear this plan doesn't include your old man.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your old man is phucking around on you....it's time to stop talking about what he does to you and start talking about what you can do for your self.

It sounds like it will take some time but you need a plan and a goal. In the mean time hopefully your old man can some how see he is losing you.

For starters...today can be the start of a hard 180!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nothing has changed in at least 5 years. You aren't doing anything different, so how could it?


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

my question is how to handle the waiting period until I can afford to leave. I've been trying to find a job for over a month and not even gotten an interview. It's going to take me two years to save enough to move out. He keeps thinking of ways we need to spend my income and I want to tell him "no" because I need to save to leave you. 

I would prefer to sit down and work out a way to proceed with this with him. Let him know that I want to work toward that, etc. We'd still have to live together but it would be with some honesty. I can't do that because he won't meet with me without others around. 

It feels wrong to spend two more years faking it and sneaking around to save money, etc. 

Do I just pretend everything is okay and be fake for the next two years? Do I shut him out and make things tense in the house (we have kids!). Do I email him? I don't know.

and while he'd have to pay alimony, etc. It's not a good financial time. You can't get blood from a turnip. (And I as I type this -we just found out we need a new heater for thousands and it's freezing here. -can't catch a break.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

First off. Did you talk to any attorneys yet to find out what you do about the 1 year separation period? You first need to know your rights.

What have you done to find out if he's cheating? Did you put a VAR in his vehicle? It's probably your best bet on catching him.

At this point you need to fake, get a job and save money. Pull out of the relationship as much as you can. Start living like roommates. Move to another bedroom in the house.


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## Mr Right (Oct 5, 2013)

BiscuitMom said:


> my question is how to handle the waiting period until I can afford to leave. I've been trying to find a job for over a month and not even gotten an interview. It's going to take me two years to save enough to move out. He keeps thinking of ways we need to spend my income and I want to tell him "no" because I need to save to leave you.
> 
> I would prefer to sit down and work out a way to proceed with this with him. Let him know that I want to work toward that, etc. We'd still have to live together but it would be with some honesty. I can't do that because he won't meet with me without others around.
> 
> ...


I don't know how things work in the States but here in Australia you can be separated and still live under the same roof for the full year until you get a divorce. Can you get a legal separation from him?


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

EleGirl said:


> First off. Did you talk to any attorneys yet to find out what you do about the 1 year separation period? You first need to know your rights.


We have to be physically living in different households for a year and day to file for divorce. The only other option was divorce from bed and board but that was not appealing. 



> What have you done to find out if he's cheating? Did you put a VAR in his vehicle? It's probably your best bet on catching him.


It seems there are some legality issues to consider with a VAR so I have not pursued it. I did find a credit card statement that had a rent charge on it (found it today in fact). I asked him about it and he says he came home and was mad because the house was not clean so he put a deposit down on an apartment but then changed his mind. (MMMM -really -going to move out behind my back because the house was not clean enough one the busiest day of the busiest week of the summer??? -personally I think this is s a lite to cover for cheating as the statement said RENT not DEPOSIT but honestly, this story makes me want to leave more than the cheating.



> At this point you need to fake, get a job and save money. Pull out of the relationship as much as you can. Start living like roommates. Move to another bedroom in the house.


 Kind of hard to just up and move to another bedroom (if we had one lol) without explaining.


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

Mr Right said:


> I don't know how things work in the States but here in Australia you can be separated and still live under the same roof for the full year until you get a divorce. Can you get a legal separation from him?


You have to live in separate households for a year and a day in our state.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BiscuitMom said:


> my question is how to handle the waiting period until I can afford to leave. I've been trying to find a job for over a month and not even gotten an interview. It's going to take me two years to save enough to move out. He keeps thinking of ways we need to spend my income and I want to tell him "no" because I need to save to leave you.
> 
> I would prefer to sit down and work out a way to proceed with this with him. Let him know that I want to work toward that, etc. We'd still have to live together but it would be with some honesty. I can't do that because he won't meet with me without others around.
> 
> It feels wrong to spend two more years faking it and sneaking around to save money, etc.


Just tell him you will be divorcing him. What else is there to say?


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

turnera said:


> Just tell him you will be divorcing him. What else is there to say?


I didn't want to tell him when the kids were in the house in case of a blow up.

I didn't want to tell him on the phone or via text.

I didn't want to do it while we were driving for safety reasons. 

I wanted to just be alone with him and he would not make himself available to be alone with me.


Anyway -I found some very incriminating evidence and confronted him with it via email. Since then, he's been more than willing to talk about saving our marriage. I am in doubt mode.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Evidence of cheating?

Are you determined to leave him still?


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## BiscuitMom (Oct 16, 2009)

I finally was able to log in to his laptop and access his email. It was horrible. He solicited sex on Craig's List (says he did not do it but he did, it's in the details that it had to be him). He has about 6 girls that he's helping with rent, phone bills, etc (not all at once just here and there). They are all young girls from 18-25, mostly drug users. (Swears no sex and not really evidence of that but after his 5 year emotional affair, we agreed to no secret friendships w/the opposite sex so to me the actual sex doesn't matter).

Then I got to his phone -just the pictures. He had taken pictures of the house one day when it was messy. Pictures like sink full of dirty dishes (teen daughter's job), boxes of stuff in a corner with clothes draped all over it (They were boxes moved downstairs to take to goodwill and the dryer was broke so I was using them as drying racks). He said he had planned to take those to a lawyer to justify a divorce. WTF??? **I noted he did not take a picture of the boxes of his stuff that had been there 10 months, his office that is a pig sty, his pile of baseball equipment and tools. Insane. 


He is now begging me to forgive him. He wants to put a GPS on his phone, give me access to his phone account online, set up his email so that I can access it anytime, etc. He wants to give me full control of the bank account and do a weekly meeting to reconcile receipts, etc. 

Now he did start changing to the good a week ago, right after I found the rent payment charge on his credit card. That story was a mix of lies and half truths. He said he realized he didn't want to lose me and started working on our relationship. He has improved but it's only a week and now I have all these emails to process. 

I love him and would love our marriage to work. However, I just don't know that I can endure this. I have given him multiple chances. I can't trust him. I can't trust that anytime the house gets a bit messy, he's not taking pictures to garner sympathy of how horrible a wife I am. I can't trust that anytime we hit a rough patch, he's not out talking to waitresses about us (yet refusing to discuss issues with me?) which leads to him becoming their savior. 

He definitely has a White Knight issue. He always likes to rush in and help young girls in need. Yet, when I need help, he gets mad at me. I get told to "Google it" or "Call someone." because he doesn't have time for me. Meanwhile, he's helping everyone else under the sun. -at the expense of OUR budget, our relationship, etc.

Right now, I am in paralysis mode. I just don't know which way to go. I am leaning toward divorce but it's painful because I really do love him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell him to move out, get a one-room apartment, give you access to all his stuff, GPS, everything, and at the end of 3 months, you'll determine if he really means it.

If he can't stick to this for three lousy months, then he's just giving you lip service to keep his cushy life.


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