# Trying to figure out where we are now...



## Lars (May 3, 2010)

Hi All - 
Quick rundown if possible:
I was a drunken jerk for many years, married 16 yrs with 2 children we both love....for most of the marriage it's been great, we've always loved each other....I began the last few years neglecting emotionally and taking wife for granted, etc. up until last year when she had given up, said it was too late the damage had been done, and so forth....she had an EA, which has ended....I stopped drinking and have changed myself and my life, lost weight, got into shape (awesome muscles!), etc. etc. fixed our financial problems that I caused, and things between us have slowly moved along....for the better. Went from last year when she wouldn't touch me or hardly talk to me and I was sure it was over....she had planned on leaving me when daughter graduated she told me...(which was this past weekend) she said it was too late, I came around way too late, etc.....FFWD to today; we get along great, we sit and talk and I listen like I never had before, we laugh together alot, quick kisses on the lips/cheeks, nice hugs (sometimes - sometimes no squeezing at all from her, they vary) some flirting, one-sided sex occasionally but intimacy is not there yet from her....her anger towards me has subsided quite a bit from a couple of months ago...almost non-existent now. I support her and the house/kids while she's training herself, trying to get her career together and go back to work full time. ANYHOO I'm showing patience like never before....waiting to see what her moves are, what she needs. I don't dode on her anymore like I was a couple of months ago, and I went through a 'breakdown/crying/begging' thing a few months ago that's gone now and my confidence and strength are back. I revamped my art career and everything in our lives looks to be awesome from here on out....if the marriage hold together. No talk of leaving anymore, from either of us.
Last week she went somewhere with her mother and emailed me 'Have a Super Day! I love you!!' which melted me, blew my mind! There has been the occasional 'Love ya' before hanging up phone, but nothing like this. I had to read it like 4 times. Never thought I'd see it again.....she use to be so affectionate towards me before I turned into an a$$.....last few days she's been a bit distant but she's been sick too, soI haven't been in her hair or smothering her......one nice squeezing hug a couple days ago, but this morning was quick peck on lips and a lame hug from her......but I smiled,told her to have a wonderful day, told her I missed her, and left for work. She smiles back and we're always quite courteous to each other when greeting ot leaving for the day. I miss her affection to death but I told her I was just here when she's ready...that I wasn't going to push....I told her that a few weeks ago.
I guess I'm just asking for some advice from you experts; how do you see our situation? I realize that right now it's all on her terms.....I did 99% of the damage to this marriage and our relationship....I hurt her and it's painful to even think that I did. We don't talk about the marriage right now, I believe she still hold a lot of resentment but I also believe that her wall is going down....VERY slowly, but progressing. At least that's what I see based on everything I've read about our situation...which is A ALOT! Any advice is appreciated and I'm sure it'll include PATIENCE!! Someone in another forum told me 'keep doing what works and stop doing what doesn't'. Maybe I don't need any more advice?


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## Lars (May 3, 2010)

I'll add this too;
It's been a roller coaster! We've gone from fighting, to the EA, to her wanting an open marriage with the EA person, to me breaking down, to us getting along again and having sex for days, we were each on Facebook constantly but both got off and closed our accounts, she went through wild stage for a couple of months, back to now where she seems like her old self again - minus emotional attachment to me. I've gone from denial to breaking down, to depression to confident and trustworthy, strong, and fit both mentally and physically. We look each other in the eye now when we speak, sometimes a little 'extra' longer than the conversation requires....trusting my intuition and my heart have kept me going. Don't know why I'm writing this except that maybe somebody else will need to hear this, need to read this, if they're in a similar situation. It took a long time for me to damage this woman's heart and get things to the point they were, and I guess I can't expect things to change overnight, as much as I'd like for them to. Just wondering if there's anything else I should be or shouldn't be doing? Thanks all for the advice I've been given thusfar, it's been a life saver!


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## JustMe23 (Feb 3, 2010)

You need to communicate and often. Find out what ways each of you feels loved and make sure to express each others' kind of love often. And above all, keep up the good work and speak kindly to yourself inside your own head. Can't love anyone else if you don't love yourself.


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## Lars (May 3, 2010)

thanks Justme23, that's exactly what I've been trying to do....figure out what makes her feel loved. It's a difficult thing, that's for sure....especially when you don't get a response a lot of times, and you're unsure of things most of the time. It's a gamble....it's faith for those that never had faith before.
When I read that this was going to be a rollercoaster, I had no idea it would be THIS much of one! 
Funny, I read my horoscopes this morning for a laugh - and here is one of them, I forget which site it's from:
"A flinging attitude in romance would give you momentary joy but might fail to long a lasting friendship. You should do something to grow it deeper and stronger. Taking advice from experienced friends would help."

- and so here I am taking advice from experienced friends. 
In thought this morning I've come to the conclusion that at this point, all I can do is be patient, and keep doing what I'm doing. Nothing seems to be pushing her away, nothing seems to be causing her to get angry at me. I'm doing everything else or have done everything else that was told to me from others....except try the 'I don't care' and become distant approach. Deep inside I feel that this would backfire in my case - and I trust my intuition.
I mean, I wasn't there for her before and it's one of the main reasons we're in this mess. I tell her I love her and kiss her on the cheek or somewhere on her face/neck every morning while she's sleeping (or in bed at least) and sometimes a small note at the coffee pot - and that's about it for the 'doting'. 
Anyway, not feeling wonderful today so any advice or encouragement from others is greatly appreciated! I've been thinking ALL MORNING about when she wrote "Have a super day, I love you!!!" to me last week.....pure joy, and at the same time I came down to a painful realization... because here I am a few days later and she's a bit distant again - and I know the rollercoaster won't go away any time soon.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Sorry to seem like a broken record, and I know it's cheap dime-store (Oprah, even) psychology, but Google "Walkaway Wife Syndrome". She'll never come back. She's broken up with you and moved on. She's staying in it for the kids/money/wedding vows/fear of leaving (pick as many as apply). 

Sorry to be so negative, but get used to it. My wife seemed like she would try for a month or few weeks, then go back to her old habit of treating me like a roomate (not one she likes very much, either). I quit. It was too hard breaking up 3 times a year.


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## Sully6 (Mar 3, 2010)

Cody5, you really should take your negative attitude on life and leave this board. People are on here hanging on a thread. Not looking for people to blow smoke up their a$$, but looking for ways to help them in their efforts to save a marriage because they care. Every situation is different. They're not all like yours. Say something encouraging, or at least neutral, or say nothing at all. Lars, things can change. Maybe they didn't for Cody5 but they can for you. Do what you can, be patient, and hope for the best.


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## Lars (May 3, 2010)

My marriage and our relationship is in it's current state MOSTLY because of the way I began to drink heavily and slipped into a terrible depression, causing me to act like an out-of-control teenager or something....the last couple of years. I know it's not ALL my fault, but in talking to her she's said more than once that "things would be great today if you hadn't done this-or-that last year"....'that' being an angry, emotionally numb, drunken jerk and it's consequences. We've always been affectionate to each other prior to that, always nice to each other, loving...intimate, etc. We were close, had fun. 
I mean, I was the one who started going downhill. She didn't. She loved me and she tried her ass off to help me, help our marriage, keep the peace...and I didn't pay attention because I drank so f-ing much. I know, typical story and I've read about it here and other forums. 

So will this marriage hold together? I don't know. Will she have feelings for me again? Who knows, I sure as hell don't. 
I'm pretty sure she does, and I'm pretty sure she is afraid of being hurt again which is why she's not opening up.....well, on MY timeline like I want her to. I have to accept that she either will or she won't, and it's all on her timeline. Right now I'm the best husband, dad, and all-around cool guy that I can possibly be. I'm in better shape physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually than I have been since she's known me. I have women hitting on me, women friends that I could have an affair with if I wanted, and will only run into more of the same as time goes on....BUT I don't want that, I want my beautiful, awesome wife's love back....or to start from scratch even. It'll never be the same as it was before, but maybe that's a good thing. It sucks, that's for sure. I didn't think I loved her at one time, but realized eventually that I love her more than anything. See? I sure as hell came out of it over time. I think back about that and remember wanting out of the marriage SO bad, but not being able to do it. Damn, I can't believe that was ME!
I married her because of love. That's why I try, that's why I stay, and that's why I endure this pain every day instead of hauling ass.


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## Lars (May 3, 2010)

When I look back it amazes me some of the steps SHE has taken .......without telling me, without my input. 

She closed her Facebook account last year (it started some problems when I was at my drunken worst, both of us acting like kids on it)...I followed and closed mine too, not long afterward. Forced us to start talking to each other, even though I did everything wrong at first (crying, begging, pursuing, all that sort of thing), wanting to talk about the marriage (which made her angry every time I mentioned it, and she almost left every time I brought it up)....she was like soap, every time I squeezed she was about to slip out of my hand and go flying. She told me she had 'planned' on leaving as soon as our daughter graduated. That was last weekend. Wife is still here. I don't see bags packed or any indication of her leaving....today. I don't know if she is or not.

She decided in the early stages of her EA that it wasn't going to happen, he wasn't worth it she told me (this was last year too, at the worst - she told me she had fallen in love with someone else because of my neglect).
She stopped calling and texting him - which amazed me. If she's still doing it, she's doing a damn good job at hiding it from me! I don't spy anymore, in my attempt to grow trust....but last time I looked at the phone bill to pay it, his number was no longer there. No calls or texts. Long story, but he's a gay friend of hers (yes he's gay - confirmed) from high school, ran into each other at a reunion last summer when I was at my drunkest....so I don't know if she was truly in love with him 'that way' or just reaaaally needed somebody while I 'wasn't there'. I'm not a therapist, so I don't know...they were friends for the last few months, she built him a website. She told me that he didn't know anything about her crush on him and that he'd probably laugh if he knew. I don't know. All of this conversation was last year....this year we don't talk about the past and it's caused things to cheer up between us. We don't talk about the marriage, and her anger has subsided tenfold. 

So all of these things have stopped...one at a time, all her decisions. She's a strong, intelligent woman and knew they were causing problems...grief, hurt. She made her own decisions, I didn't give her input or try to control anything like I use to. I'm not even the same human being I was last year or before. Right now I'm just patient. Waiting to see what she's going to do. She's still here.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Sully6 said:


> Cody5, you really should take your negative attitude on life and leave this board. People are on here hanging on a thread. Not looking for people to blow smoke up their a$$, but looking for ways to help them in their efforts to save a marriage because they care. Every situation is different. They're not all like yours. Say something encouraging, or at least neutral, or say nothing at all. Lars, things can change. Maybe they didn't for Cody5 but they can for you. Do what you can, be patient, and hope for the best.



You're right. I'll step out. Every situation is different. As a matter of fact, I'd like to hear of some success stories. It may help me as well. Literally HUNDREDS of posts on this forum of wives checking out of marriages for 4+ years. So many times I've read "I changed but she said it was too late". I 'd like to hear of ONE where the wife found love again and happily came back to the marriage. That would be nice. Any success stories? Anyone? I could use the help also.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

cody5 said:


> I 'd like to hear of ONE where the wife found love again and happily came back to the marriage. That would be nice. Any success stories? Anyone? I could use the help also.


Here you go! 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation-stories/1383-when-enough-enough.html


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

You had me up to here:

"People do fall back in love, I did. Now I patiently wait for her to do the same. Is it a happy marriage? No, but it is happier than it’s been in years".

And this:

"While there is still no sexual intimacy between us..."

Mine is on the way to being happier than it's been in years. She will never love me again, however. If she ever did.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

cody5 said:


> Mine is on the way to being happier than it's been in years. She will never love me again, however. If she ever did.


Read the rest of the thread.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Lars, I hope you won't listen to Cody or allow him to discourage you. Some people want their situation to change without having to do anything to change it. But you, on the other hand, have made great progress and given your circumstances much consideration. And, you are trying to learn more that you can do. You efforts are remarkable, and I can't believe your thoughtfulness. 

It is clear your wife is still in love with you or at least that she still wants to be. It just sounds like she is pensive and afraid to completely turn her trust and her heart back over to you. Where that is concerned, I think you just want to be careful not to betray or abuse her trust as she releases a little at a time.

Another thing is, I think it's time you pursue her. Just as if you recently met her and began dating, it's time to be a little more aggressive in your approach and efforts to win her back. This movie is exactly what you need to make her fall back in love with you. Rent it. Watch it. Follow the principles.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I read the whole thing AMP. I see you two are doing a great job of trying to fix it. Great for you. However, I was asking for an example of a wife coming back after being "gone" for a few years. I didn't ask if anyone ever tried, or if it's "better". Sure, I'm trying too and it's better. I don't think it can succeed, however. I need someone, a woman, to say:

"I hadn't loved my man or been physically/emotionally attractesd to him in the past x years. One day he "decided to change" and I eventually fell in love with him again".

I didn't get that example from your thread.

Anyone?


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Susan2010 said:


> It is clear your wife is still in love with you or at least that she still wants to be. .


Yea, so? My wife would do anything to be able to love me again too. She can't. She feels horrible that she married me knowing she would never love me or be attracted to me. It's killing her as much as it is me.

Look. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here. I'm just saying that I've been on this board a long time and have seen hundreds of "she stopped loving me and never started up again" posts. I'd love to see some where the husband truly won that love back. I'd LOVE to see that it's possible. It hasn't happened for me and I haven't heard of it happening to anyone else. I, and those thousands of other husbands that need to try, want to hear sucess stories.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Then, Cody, you are not going get if from anyone since no matter what anyone says, you won't believe it and will keep finding things wrong with it and looking for loopholes and reasons not to believe them. He gave you exactly what he you asked for. It was him telling his story and in it was his wife's example. But you don't like that because she is not the one who wrote here. So you tell him, in so many words, that he is lying, that his wife did not say _"I hadn't loved my man or been physically/emotionally attractesd to him in the past x years. One day he "decided to change" and I eventually fell in love with him again"_ by her own words and actions. But that is exactly what she said. No one will be able to please you. And you're right about your wife because she is tired of trying to please you. It is not possible to do. You prefer to remain negative and discouraging. Anyone would be sick of that.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I guess I'm just too literal a person. I can only see where he specifically states that his wife is still not in love with him and the intimacy is not back. I didn't read between the lines to see where it's been fixed.

Sorry Lars. You CAN fix it if you really want it and are willing to try. Just look real had and read between the lines of the sucess story posts on this site. Just ignore all of the negative ones, you're just not reading them right. You'll get through all this and your marriage will be better for it.

I feel better already.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

cody5 said:


> I can only see where he specifically states that his wife is still not in love with him and the intimacy is not back. I didn't read between the lines to see where it's been fixed..


Then you've missed it in the thread.



Amplexor said:


> Physical intimacy increased and eventually so did sexual intimacy after a two year abstinence. With intimacy grew stronger bonds between us emotionally. I once again became her emotional center and my love of her increased and deepened.





Amplexor said:


> But another breach occurred in it a few weeks ago. Those three little words she couldn't find in her to say to me slipped out. They have been repeated on several occasions since. So our story progresses again in a positive direction. I know she still searches for the Eros love for me and I think she will eventually get there. But for now, this was just one more step in the process. Good luck all.


Yes you are correct, she is still looking for that "in love" feeling but does love me very deeply. Eros love is fleeting in all couples. It comes and goes but the point is my wife's love and respect in me did come back. Both had been pretty much dead for years.


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## Lars (May 3, 2010)

Susan2010 said:


> Lars, I hope you won't listen to Cody or allow him to discourage you. Some people want their situation to change without having to do anything to change it. But you, on the other hand, have made great progress and given your circumstances much consideration. And, you are trying to learn more that you can do. You efforts are remarkable, and I can't believe your thoughtfulness.
> 
> It is clear your wife is still in love with you or at least that she still wants to be. It just sounds like she is pensive and afraid to completely turn her trust and her heart back over to you. Where that is concerned, I think you just want to be careful not to betray or abuse her trust as she releases a little at a time.
> 
> Another thing is, I think it's time you pursue her. Just as if you recently met her and began dating, it's time to be a little more aggressive in your approach and efforts to win her back. This movie is exactly what you need to make her fall back in love with you. Rent it. Watch it. Follow the principles.


Susan, thanks so much for your words of encouragement!

"I love you". She wrote that in an email to me a couple of weeks ago. I THOUGHT FOR SURE a couple of months ago that I would *NEVER* hear that from her mouth....or see that written from her again. 
I use to daydream and visualize her smiling at me again, and giving me a hug...AT LEAST a hug. Now I have that and more. On to the next step!

"I think you just want to be careful not to betray or abuse her trust as she releases a little at a time."
I agree, and that's exactly what I'm doing. Being patient, showing love, and treating her like the beautiful person she is and deserves to be treated. I'm sure she's suspicious at times, and I'm sure that, if she's opening her heart back up to me, it's a 'molecule at a time' considering the way I treated her and the type of person I use to be. I don't blame her for being cautious.
I may be too late, I don't know, but there are more indications that I'm not than there use to be...and my intuition and heart keep telling me to work on it. 
I read Divorce Remedy and that was AFTER I made every mistake the book says not to make! 
Yes it can get better but only if a person changes himself - will it be the same? Never. How could it?
Do I want it to be the same way it use to be? Nope. 
I'm shooting for a relationship like we've never seen before...but it's going to take some time.


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## Lars (May 3, 2010)

One more thing I want to add: 
Couple of years ago I had what I know now was a mid-life crisis. I was heading towards 40, and of course my drinking and low brain function probably added to the problems it caused, but knowing all the signs now, yeah....I had one! 
I wasn't sure if I wanted to be married anymore, I wasn't sure if I was in love anymore, etc. etc. And looking back now, it sucked and it must have REAALLY sucked for my wife. It didn't last long, but it was long enough to cause damage. 
I know I put her through some heartbreak.
The reason I'm saying this is because for me, the feelings of love and adoration RETURNED. They came back to my heart because of my wife.....who loved me through all of that, stayed with me through all of that, tried to repair our relationship and marriage through all of that. She was STILL so sweet to me even though I was a screwed-up jerk. she tried her ass off, tried everything. I realized one day that I was really in love with her, as I had always been.....but by that time so much damage had been done that we were on a spiral downwards that led to where we are now....my wife full of resentment and hurt, and me full of regret, pain, and heartbreak.
I can't explain it, I can't explain why it happened to me this way, but it did. So I BELIEVE they can come back into a person's heart....because it happened to me. I also believe people can change....because it happened to me.
That's one of the reason I'm still here, working on myself - hoping and praying that they'll find their way out of that wall my wife built around her heart because of me.
As a man, as a husband, I HAVE TO try. I can't give up on this relationship and the woman I love.
Good luck to everyone.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I have to agree with Cody, because Amp's example is still one in which there is an emotional distance between wife and husband, and where w loves him for what he has become, but (as yet) gives no indication that she is anywhere near the previous emotional connection. She feels strongly enough to keep trying to make the connection, but it isn't there yet. At least, that's how it appears to come across in the quotations provided. I think it's contradictory that he says he's become her emotional center but she doesn't yet feel Eros love for him. That is just my read on it, anyway. Not to mention that it is all from Amp's point of view (no offense intended) based on what he observes and what she tells him. I know only too well how what we want can influence what we say already "is." But maybe I'm too suspicious.

Anyway, although Cody has been negative, I still think he has a good point--the reality is, very few people (no one?) on this site can say that they, personally, have "come back" from the kind of disconnection that happened in their marriage. That does not mean it CANNOT happen; it's just a reality check on the likeliness. And it does not matter what the general "rule" is, if you are the one exception, so Lars is wise to keep hope while it works for him. Just like he would be wise to give up, if and when the time comes that hope and waiting are no longer good for him.


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## Lars (May 3, 2010)

One thing I have learned in all that I've been through so far; 

If a person does change, and I mean REALLY change like I have, then there's NO WAY things can or will ever be the same as they were before. I don't WANT them to be like they use to be.

I'm not the same person, internally and externally. I know my wife isn't the same person; she's been hurt too much, she built a wall - and even when that wall comes down....she'll never be the same towards me. That's just how it is. Once I realized and accepted that I decided to STOP trying to 'get back' what I use to have and do something different; shoot for something new between us.
Something better than before, greater...deeper than it ever was. 
A different kind of love, nothing like it has been in the past. As I work on detaching myself from her I've realized something....that I love her. I've always loved her - but up until now, I'm not sure if I really knew what that meant. Love takes WORK, effort. I'm putting forth that work and effort every day, not asking for anything in return, and I'm beginning to really CARE about her...what she wants, how she feels, what she needs. It's a strange yet wonderful feeling for me, to be unselfish.

Last night she was a bit distant to me, but friendly. She was tired from a long day of driving and being at the airport, and I understood that so I backed off....and in the past I would have been irritated by it probably and it would have made ME irritated.
I'm uber sensitive to her needs now and it makes a difference in our relationship like never before.

Last night though, I didn't push anything....I was sweet and thoughtful to her, we talked a bit but gave her some breathing and thinking room. I worked on my art and kept my mind occupied instead of over analyzing things and firing up the automatic negative thoughts I've always been guilty of.
This morning, up early...we had coffee together and listened to NPR, laughing and talking about all kinds of weird stuff. It was a great morning - little things like that have become awesome!
She gave me one of the best 'good bye' hugs this morning that I've felt in a long time as I was leaving for work. Three kisses. Another awesome squeeze as I stepped out. 
Made my day, my heart feels like it's going to burst. 

Yeah - THIS is what life is suppose to feel like.

NOT leaving for work hungover like hell, pissed off about something she did or didn't do (that my mind made up, usually) something she said or didn't say the night before (which was usually never the case but my mind would tell me otherwise) and that I stewed on all freakin' night.

My 'hope' use to be that she wouldn't leave me and that we'd pop right back into the way things use to be 'immediately'. 
Our good 'ole predictable, comfortable (to me anyway, I was always numb) pattern. 
As time has passed and I've grown leaps and bounds, I've realized that I don't ever want that back.....now my 'hope' has changed. 
I hope that each and every day she continues to smile at me, look me in the eye when we talk, laugh with me....open to me a molecule at a time. Talk to me and allow me the honor of listening to her. Hug me like she did this morning. THAT'S what I ask the universe for each day.
I don't think about the future right now. I don't dwell on negative thoughts, I don't dwell on the past. I enjoy each and every second I'm around her. I consider it a privilege to have the chance to even put my arms around her, considering what I've done and the way I've behaved. Thanks for listening!
Good luck to you all and I hope you find true peace and happiness.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Lars. Your situation is so similar to mine it's creepy. Go for it. Keep trying. I've not heard of it working yet, but maybe there's a first.

My wife and I were moving along the same as you. Intimacy was back. Sex was back (althought she never liked it with me, she'll "put-out" when I want it. Not perfect, but I'll take it). Problem was, I was always walking on eggshells around her. Trying to change. I became a different person. A good person. I'd ended the emotional abuse I didn't realize I was putting her through. Cold turkey. (It's amazing how completely you can change when you find out 15 years of a loveless marriage was your fault after-all). 

2 months of "healing" like that, then I make one comment. A 100% innocent comment, and she hit the roof. Although it was a misunderstanding, I realized then and there that the old Cody was forever stuck in her head. I'd become a different person that neither one of us really liked, and beneath the surface the old Cody was always lurking in her mind. I'm never getting her back, and I've yet to see a post where any one has after something like that. 

I'm a little different than you in that during this process I've also realized that she has never been physically attracted to me. Also, we dated/were engaged for a long tie before we got married. She knew who I was and married me anyhow. She committed me to a lifetime of no love and herself to an emotional abuser. She should have done us both a favor and said "I don't" instead of "I do".

3 kids later and we need keep surviving. Who knows what will happen when the kids are out of the house. I can't imagine her staying.


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