# I just don't know what to do........



## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I just don't know what to do.........

So we married in 1995 and have 4 children (I already had 2 young children) when we got together, and he is 2 years younger than me, so he was fairly young and inexperienced when we got together, he was 20 and I was 22. He had one sexual encounter before we met.

He _smoked_ weed, his one vice. He doesn't go out without me, we both do everything together except work. He has a good job.

I have always been a good mother and house wife and up until the past 6 years worked part-time....since then i work full-time because now we have big mortgage to pay.

At some point we lost touch with one another I guess, i didn't realise this until i suspected he might have cheated on me. I was always tired, and busy with kids and house work and he was always grumpy and wanting sex and complaining he wasn't getting enough and making me feel guilty and that made me hold it away from him more......I only ever remember feeling so tired, and never getting any help. 

H would get up in the morning, shower, drink coffee and out the door....H would come home after work, go bathroom for an hour (read his book) eat his dinner and sit in the kitchen smoking weed and watching football. (this was his wind down)

I'm still tired and wanting to sit on the sofa in the evening and watch the soaps and relax because it's all going to start again in the morning....kids up, pack lunches, dropping kids to various places on route to full time job, home from work, pop to supermarket, washing, cooking, ironing....on it goes.

Oops....I forgot my H needed sex!

Oops, my H forgot I needed ANYTHING!

I try to understand why he made the choices he made.....but all I can come up with is he is pathetic, immature and very very selfish.

When I get suspicious he might have cheated, he lies, lies and lies some more. When I finally find my evidence he admits to one incident, (but really he had no choice but to confess as i was in contact with OW).

He then spends a whole year in false R with me, lying to me, promising me he has never done anything else. 

He stops smoking weed over night, and he is like a new man in many respects. He now wakes me up with breakfast, he helps around the house. He agrees I should work a day less each week. He is desperate to make wrongs right. The two eldest have moved out and on with their lives. We have more time together, we have great sex, we spend lots of time together. We are happy....but i still have my niggling doubt that there is more secrets.

After 12 months I still have doubts from my original suspicion and ask him to sit a poly, he panics and looks like he doesn't want to do a poly. Alarm bells!

Within a week he admits to 2 other 'incidents' with colleagues and tells me he has come clean, told me everything and now I have the full truth.

.........so why can i not believe him?

.........why do I think he is a pathological liar?

..........How can i ever trust him again?


Am I blind siding myself?

Am I in some BS fog?

Is he genuinely sorry?

Is he genuinely remorseful?

How does the BS ever answer these questions without investing years and years into what could be a sham?
I want to believe him, but don't trust him and now i don't trust my own judgement either.

I can't help but see him as the kind of H that cheats....because he has done.

I can't help but think he's the kind of H that lies.......because he has done.

Think I'm treading water!


"We could have had it all"

Adele - Rolling In The Deep - YouTube


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## StarGazer101 (Jan 26, 2013)

I wish I had an answer .... all I can say is that I know how you feel.









It seems to me that once again we BS' have to take that leap of faith and give more of the precious time we have. If only .......


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

Since he hasn't been completely honest with you there's no way to know what he's keeping from you.

Trust is gone and probably will never fully return.

Can you spend the rest of your life like this?

I sure couldn't. 

If you stick it out, put measures in place to monitor his actions.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Tell him he has to take a polygraph.

Have you been tested for STD's?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

northland said:


> Since he hasn't been completely honest with you there's no way to know what he's keeping from you.
> 
> Trust is gone and probably will never fully return.
> 
> ...


:iagree: He now tells me I have the truth because I told him the poly was booked. So he came clean on two other counts. he says now that I have everything, and from that day he told me the truth he has no more secrets.

Problem is, when someone you love tells you lies to your face for over a year, not omissions, but full on lies.......its very difficult if not impossible to ever believe you have the truth.

I agree trust is gone, and will never return. Even if I trust he will never cheat again.....i will never know he has been truly open and honest.

can i spend the rest of my life like this?.....probably not.

Measures are in place to monitor his actions.....the problem isn't trusting his future actions, its knowing I have the full truth about his past!

In order to make a fresh start, I need to know I have the full truth in order to move forward and start to fully re-build.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

StarGazer101 said:


> I wish I had an answer .... all I can say is that I know how you feel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know you know what I am going through StarGazer. It is hell on earth. Even though he is seemingly doing everything humanly possible, it is so hard for me to accept and move on.

I am struggling!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

LRgirl said:


> In order to make a fresh start, I need to know I have the full truth in order to move forward and start to fully re-build.


You will never know this. Never. What you have to decide is whether you can allow him back in knowing this.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

He might have gotten to the stage where he figures that it is worth taking the risk of a polygraph as, if he tells the full truth he thinks it's over and if he fails the poly, he thinks it's over.

For what it's worth, this is where my ex wife was and has been; she figured that every truth would cause me to tell her I was done, whereas I am still living with her (with a plan to separate because of the lies).

It's an awful place to be as you can't begin building something new when you are not sure if you are basing the new relationship on trust, or something not quite right.

IC helped me an awful lot - have you sought any?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Tell him he has to take a polygraph.
> 
> Have you been tested for STD's?


A polygraph is def on the cards.......as I can not see any other way of having peace of mind right now.

I keep coming back to 'what if's and maybe's.......all i want is the bloody truth.

Maybe I have it, and maybe I don't. How in God's name am i meant to know what is truth and what is more 'damage limitation'?

STD's I never did get him or myself checked.....he did say he would arrange to get himself checked at GP's.

3 ONS....he never really made it...it didn't get that far from what he has told me and what OW have told me when confronted, but again, i don't know this to be true, only what I've been told.

He insists he never got that far with any of them.

Think a poly and STD check is on the cards.


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> 3 ONS....he never really made it...it didn't get that far from what he has told me and what OW have told me when confronted, but again, i don't know this to be true, only what I've been told.
> 
> He insists he never got that far with any of them.
> 
> Think a poly and STD check is on the cards.


Don't confuse what you want to believe with the truth.

Polygraphs are not reliable nor conclusive, however the threat of a polygraph can be rather useful in getting to the truth.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LRgirl said:


> :iagree: He now tells me I have the truth because I told him the poly was booked. So he came clean on two other counts. he says now that I have everything, and from that day he told me the truth he has no more secrets.


Translation: NOW you can cancel the poly because NOW I have told you everything. Right? You're going to cancel it now, right?

fwiw, the main benefit of a poly is to get that polygraph diahrrea they exhibit BEFORE the appointment. For some reason, most want to be seen as having been 'honest' with you before they get hooked up. Not sure why it is, but it's extremely common.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> He might have gotten to the stage where he figures that it is worth taking the risk of a polygraph as, if he tells the full truth he thinks it's over and if he fails the poly, he thinks it's over.
> 
> For what it's worth, this is where my ex wife was and has been; she figured that every truth would cause me to tell her I was done, whereas I am still living with her (with a plan to separate because of the lies).
> 
> ...


I have considered IC, but not sure if that is the right path for me. I will maybe look at that now, the time might be right.

He keeps saying he will sit a poly now......but i feel he is calling my bluff.....which is stupid because I will book it. I just would prefer him to tell me anything else and i am prepared to give him every opportunity to come clean without me finding out via a poly..because that would be us over.

_"It's an awful place to be as you can't begin building something new when you are not sure if you are basing the new relationship on trust, or something not quite right."_ :iagree:

This is where I am at right now.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Some cheaters continue to bluff right up to when they are sitting in the chair with wires strapped to them. Some STILL lie, thinking they can beat the test.

There is NO way to ever know with 100% certainty. If you hope to R, you have got to come to a point where that's acceptable. If that will never be acceptable, then don't R.


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> i am prepared to give him every opportunity to come clean without me finding out via a poly..because that would be us over


You'd end the relationship over a test that is known to be faulty, unreliable and inconclusive?

Wow.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

turnera said:


> Translation: NOW you can cancel the poly because NOW I have told you everything. Right? You're going to cancel it now, right?
> 
> fwiw, the main benefit of a poly is to get that polygraph diahrrea they exhibit BEFORE the appointment. For some reason, most want to be seen as having been 'honest' with you before they get hooked up. Not sure why it is, but it's extremely common.


:iagree:

I think it will be booked in the next month or so.....no point in bull sh!tting him to get more out of him.... we've been down that path already. 

I should have gone through with it last year as planned. I feel I fell into a common trap of TT so i cancelled.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I have considered IC, but not sure if that is the right path for me. I will maybe look at that now, the time might be right.
> 
> He keeps saying he will sit a poly now......but i feel he is calling my bluff.....which is stupid because I will book it. I just would prefer him to tell me anything else and i am prepared to give him every opportunity to come clean without me finding out via a poly..*because that would be us over.*
> 
> ...


Please read the poly links in my signature.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

northland said:


> You'd end the relationship over a test that is known to be faulty, unreliable and inconclusive?
> 
> Wow.


I would.

It is also known to be valuable, helpful and psycyholically motivating.

All depends on what bias you're starting with. Yours is obvious.


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

turnera said:


> I would.
> 
> It is also known to be valuable, helpful and psycyholically motivating.
> 
> All depends on what bias you're starting with. Yours is obvious.


Mine might be but what about HIM?

Imagine the poor guy has really come clean, and he's got nothing to hide yet he knows she doesn't believe him and the relationship depends on him giving the right answers.

So he's asked if he's holding anything back, and he knows he isn't but he knows the question is loaded so his heart skips a beat or he breaks a sweat or sends an extra pulse of electricity to the probe on his fingers and the examiner jots down that he's lying. 

It really is THAT easy to fail a poly even if you're being honest.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LRGirl, can you get the trust back? Well, yes, you can. Eventually, and it will be a long time -if ever- until it is back to 100%.

People say that smoking weed is great, fine, safe, etc. Well, as someone who has smoked weed, and had friends who smoked it, I have to say that weed is not as safe as some people claim. Would it have made your husband cheat? No. But I fear it might have helped.

Have you thought of threatening him with an appearance on the Jeremy Kyle Show? (Only joking!)


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

northland said:


> Mine might be but what about HIM?
> 
> Imagine the poor guy has really come clean, and he's got nothing to hide yet he knows she doesn't believe him and the relationship depends on him giving the right answers.
> 
> ...


If he'd been honest in the first place, he wouldn't be taking a poly.

You reap what you sow. If it's gotten to the point where your spouse demands a poly, you aren't innocent. And if it's gotten to the point where you feel you really need a poly, maybe it's better to end things anyway.


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> If he'd been honest in the first place, he wouldn't be taking a poly.


True, he's been dishonest, and still may be dishonest, but irrelevant when it comes to her decision to end the relationship if he fails the poly. 



Hope1964 said:


> If it's gotten to the point where your spouse demands a poly, you aren't innocent.


Not necessarily. Some betrayed spouses walk around in a perpetual state of unease and suspicion, and for good reason- they've been traumatized. But that doesn't mean the WW is still cheating. 




Hope1964 said:


> And if it's gotten to the point where you feel you really need a poly, maybe it's better to end things anyway.


Also true. That still doesn't mean she'd be ending the relationship for the right reason if she's basing it on her belief that a failed polygraph means he's definitely cheating.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I wouldn't assume it means he's still cheating. Just that he's still hiding things. And AFTER the cheating, that's enough for me. 

I always told my husband that if I ever found him cheating, he would never see me again. And I meant it. Still do. Decades later, I asked him why he never cheated, and he said it was because I told him that. Well, not that he wanted to, but that it was a big factor.

Some people simply DO have a high boundary when it comes to stuff like that.

Anyway, we're getting off her subject.


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## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

northland said:


> You'd end the relationship over a test that is known to be faulty, unreliable and inconclusive?
> 
> Wow.


No, she'd end the relationship because the POS has already admitted to cheating on her three times. Looks like she'd rather believe the poly than him - which given his previous is fair enough.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl, this is the toughest thing - having all this betrayal to deal with, yet not being sure if it's everything there is. Yet in order to R, you'd have to take a leap of faith when you already had what seemed to be a nice safe ledge crumble beneath you previously. Any wayward can tell you what they felt or experienced, and while it might give you some insight, it can't tell you what you really need to know - what YOUR WS is feeling/experiencing. I'm so sorry that you're in this situation.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> I would.
> 
> It is also known to be valuable, helpful and psycyholically motivating.
> 
> All depends on what bias you're starting with. Yours is obvious.


Reading the links in my signature will likely change your mind.


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## All of a sudden (Jan 24, 2013)

My husband, if you want to call him that, has recently to admitted to 1 affair, then two, possibly three. I will never be able to trust him cause everytime he said that was it, i found something else and he had to admit as to what I found. Im done but havent left him yet because ,well i will have to start my own thread. You will never be able to trust him again. At least i won't, he had so many opportunities to come clean but didn't unless i had evidence. Been married a long time 4 kids, some men just suck and are liars. I so want to press reset and start with someone new. At least yours has stopped weed and is trying, mine thinks since he makes the money he has all control over me and makes no effort to lift a finger. I have to wait on him hand and foot. So for you , your husband seems to show remorse, give him a chance to show or not show a better marriage.

Mc for us the lady told us there was no hope. At the time I didn't want to hear that, I wanted some steps or help or something.

Anyway Im no help sorry.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

northland said:


> True, he's been dishonest, and still may be dishonest, but irrelevant when it comes to her decision to end the relationship if he fails the poly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She'd be ending the relationship because he CHEATED. The fact he failed the poly would just be the proverbial straw at this point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

2asdf2 said:


> Reading the links in my signature will likely change your mind.


 Already did and no, it didn't. Just another bias.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

All of a sudden said:


> I have to wait on him hand and foot.


:rofl:

No, you _don't_. That's what courts are for.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

northland said:


> True, he's been dishonest,


:rofl:

Yep. He was 'dishonest' when he put his you know what, you know where. Just a little white lie, right?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I am certain you will never really know the truth. However, you do know he is a betrayer, deceiver and a liar and if given another chance for a one night stand will take it.

So the question remains- can you live with this?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

All of a sudden said:


> My husband, if you want to call him that, has recently to admitted to 1 affair, then two, possibly three. I will never be able to trust him cause everytime he said that was it, i found something else and he had to admit as to what I found. Im done but havent left him yet because ,well i will have to start my own thread. You will never be able to trust him again. At least i won't, he had so many opportunities to come clean but didn't unless i had evidence. Been married a long time 4 kids, some men just suck and are liars. I so want to press reset and start with someone new. At least yours has stopped weed and is trying, mine thinks since he makes the money he has all control over me and makes no effort to lift a finger. I have to wait on him hand and foot. So for you , your husband seems to show remorse, give him a chance to show or not show a better marriage.
> 
> Mc for us the lady told us there was no hope. At the time I didn't want to hear that, I wanted some steps or help or something.
> 
> Anyway Im no help sorry.


Actually that was very helpful, because you have allowed me to see some of the facts....and the fact is, he is doing so much. He is doing everything he can possibly do.......the only thing he can not do is give me back peace of mind and trust.

I do not think for one minute he will cheat again, if i thought this, he would be gone. So the one problem is purely about if he is still TT me, or has he told me everything.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Maybe you should press that button.

"_I so want to press reset and start with someone new._"

You will when you are ready. How old are the kids?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> LRgirl, this is the toughest thing - having all this betrayal to deal with, yet not being sure if it's everything there is. Yet in order to R, you'd have to take a leap of faith when you already had what seemed to be a nice safe ledge crumble beneath you previously. Any wayward can tell you what they felt or experienced, and while it might give you some insight, it can't tell you what you really need to know - what YOUR WS is feeling/experiencing. I'm so sorry that you're in this situation.


I feel like you know where I am coming from so well.....you always hit the nail on the head.

'not being sure it's everything there is' that is all I want.

This is disgusting, but I always liken the secrets and lies to having dead bodies in the basement / cellar......and they are only removed with all traces gone when the truth is told. How can I start to rebuild my marriage if there are bodies rotting in the foundations......it needs to be emptied, cleaned out and thoroughly bleached!

I can't even say 'I mostly believe him', I just don't know when he's lying any more......I don't think he's lying about anything and everything.....but regarding 'me having it all' I do believe he will take secrets to the grave if I have no evidence to confront him.

I either take the leap of faith or let him go.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I feel like you know where I am coming from so well.....you always hit the nail on the head.


Thank you, I'm glad to hear that. That's one of the reasons I spend a lot of time reading on TAM - I want to understand as best I can what a BS goes through. Threads like yours really help me. 



LRgirl said:


> 'not being sure it's everything there is' that is all I want.
> 
> This is disgusting, but I always liken the secrets and lies to having dead bodies in the basement / cellar......and they are only removed with all traces gone when the truth is told. How can I start to rebuild my marriage if there are bodies rotting in the foundations......it needs to be emptied, cleaned out and thoroughly bleached!
> 
> ...


Dead, rotting bodies in the basement is a perfect analogy. It makes sense that you'd need to keep looking, and that you're worried that you can't trust your perceptions of him anymore (since he had secrets you never knew he had). Since it's something traumatic, you feel compelled to check and double-check. But there's no way to know for certain that what you know is all there is, not even with a polygraph test. Is there anything he could do that would ease that anxiety (other than or in addition to the polygraph)? Writing a timeline? Signing something (maybe in front of witnesses) that promises that he has disclosed everything?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I do not think for one minute he will cheat again, if i thought this, he would be gone. So the one problem is purely about if he is still TT me, or has he told me everything.


My story is pretty similar to your own. Two years of False R before my husband confessed to an additional two other women. The brief EA I thought we'd been rebuilding from had actually been a 3+ year long EA (that was probably also a PA but he won't admit to that), a ONS with a stranger and a sexting affair with a coworker. Honestly, it isn't even the affairs that really did me in. It was the lies. All the times he looked into my devastated face and flat out lied to me. 

If I may ask, why do you not think your husband would cheat again? How did you get to the point of confidence that a guy who's already done this 3 times won't fall off the wagon and cheat again?

I'm not trying to be combative, just deeply curious. I can't imagine ever seriously thinking my husband wouldn't cheat again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LR, have you set up your Extraordinary Precautions? Any BS should have these in place; they are, in fact, a pretty good indicator if he is cheating/will cheat again. Because you can't cheat as easily and still maintain the EPs.

Some will/should include:
He has NO passwords any more. If he has work phone/computer that you are not allowed to look at, I urge you to say you won't stay married until he quits that job and gets one that doesn't have those rules. Doesn't want to quit? Tough. He lost THAT right when he chose to cheat multiple times.
He tells you where he is; you install GPS on his phone without telling him so you can verify if you feel a need or have a suspicion.
He finds an IC and starts going NOW, so he can discover how he could do that to you.
He finds a MC that you both go to, to get to a safe place about all this.
I always recommend that you require him to admit to his parents or other VIP what he did; the humility that requires is a great indicator whether he's sincere; plus, they become part of his accountability partner group - he may not think twice about cheating on you, but letting his mom find out he did it AGAIN? Not nearly as likely.
If the As were long-term, it displays a different level of capability to harm; therefore, I would consider telling him he has to sign a post-nup - an agreement in which, if you catch him cheating again, he leaves the marriage with NOTHING and no rights. If he won't sign it, another great indicator he's just tellling you what you want to hear. They don't always hold up in court, but just knowing you have it can give him pause.

If he's not willing to do these things, run.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

turnera said:


> Translation: NOW you can cancel the poly because NOW I have told you everything. Right? You're going to cancel it now, right?
> 
> fwiw, the main benefit of a poly is to get* that polygraph diahrrea they exhibit BEFORE the appointment*. For some reason, most want to be seen as having been 'honest' with you before they get hooked up. Not sure why it is, but it's extremely common.


:rofl:


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I feel like you know where I am coming from so well.....you always hit the nail on the head.
> 
> 'not being sure it's everything there is' that is all I want.
> 
> ...


Good explanation. Have you put this to him? Is he capable of seeing this?

Have you gotten him to write a timeline. You can even have him recall details like what she was wearing, what they ate, how many orgasms. The more detail that comes forth will establish at least a tendril to other incidents. You will think of more questions.

The important thing is that he understand where you're coming from. It will help him, too. But if the lies are more important, then why be married.

You should praise him for quitting the weed. That is an achievement that has raised the quality of life for you both. Tell him that ending the lying will probably have the same effect. However, what if he tells you something that is a deal breaker? Sex with someone you knew, for example. You cannot promise that the truth will not produce new problems.

Tell him that you are happier with you sex life. Ask him if he is, too. If both of you are happier, ask him why this has happened?

You are actually in a better position than many. You can honestly praise and encourage instead of merely planning divorce.

Polygraphs are probably not entirely reliable so take it with a grain of salt.

Although your poor sex life was not justification for cheating, it is certainly worth discussing. If you admitted that you should have tried harder back then, would he appreciate your honesty?

The fundamental issue in your marriage is who is he? How do you measure who someone is?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Rowan said:


> My story is pretty similar to your own. Two years of False R before my husband confessed to an additional two other women. The brief EA I thought we'd been rebuilding from had actually been a 3+ year long EA (that was probably also a PA but he won't admit to that), a ONS with a stranger and a sexting affair with a coworker. Honestly, it isn't even the affairs that really did me in. It was the lies. All the times he looked into my devastated face and flat out lied to me.
> 
> *If I may ask, why do you not think your husband would cheat again? How did you get to the point of confidence that a guy who's already done this 3 times won't fall off the wagon and cheat again?*
> 
> I'm not trying to be combative, just deeply curious. I can't imagine ever seriously thinking my husband wouldn't cheat again.


I really believe that when he saw the complete and utter pain in my eyes and the devastation he had caused, he was so disgusted with himself.

Its a long and complicated story....each of these ONS were with female colleagues. First one happened when very drunk, working away over night with a group.....going to bed in the early hours she took his hand and lead him into her room....he went with her, but couldn't get it up. too drunk, although he says because he didn't want to. That was 2005.

Next a dirty tramp offered him a no strings attached BJ after work in the car and he thought 'why not?' he tried but again, he went floppy........she has verified this as we have had contact. I pretended to be my H emailing her. That was 2008.

Last time, Feb 2011, a female colleague at an over night conference. He kissed her outside the club and when they got back to hotel he asked if he could come in to her room for _coffee_ at 5am...they had a drunken fumble because again he couldn't get it up...too drunk, again he says he couldn't and didn't really want to be there. She has verified this also. I take the lack of erection with a pinch of salt....

None of these women work with him any more. All are married. All have been threatened by myself to tell me the truth or I will tell their husbands.....he confessed to 2005 and 2011 a couple days before booked polygraph.

I found evidence on his email in the form of 'BJ offer' from 2008 tramp....this was only evidence i had on him. Prior to this he lied through his backside about not cheating on me. But my intuition played a blinder.....I was initially suspicious after the Feb 2011 conference.....

All 3 women are mutts.....seriously!

I don't feel in any way threatened by these women, they just were there when he wanted sex or to try something new or exciting. He now can look and see what he risked.

He was a heavy weed smoker, this has stopped. He doesn't go away over night with work unless I can see all e-mails relevant, and I know who will be present...and in fact he wont be staying out over night again.

He doesn't go out with out me. But then he never did, unless it was work conference or similar....so he shouldn't have the opportunity unless he gets another car park offer!

I just don't believe he would take the risk. He knows i would never tolerate it and would throw him right out.

I found out about these 3 incidents September 2011....so I didn't know he'd cheated and had him back for him to cheat again. That would never have happened!

If i thought he would cheat on me again, he would be D by now.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I have considered IC, but not sure if that is the right path for me. I will maybe look at that now, the time might be right.
> 
> He keeps saying he will sit a poly now......but i feel he is calling my bluff.....which is stupid because I will book it. I just would prefer him to tell me anything else and i am prepared to give him every opportunity to come clean without me finding out via a poly..because that would be us over.
> 
> ...


LR girl what has happend to trigger the two new threads you have going ?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> LR girl what has happend to trigger the two new threads you have going ?


Nothing new has happened 55, it's weird but I have good weeks and bad weeks.......

Probably hasn't helped that it is conference season.

I allowed H to stay away from home last night.....I know who he was with and the agenda, i could verify via email who he was with, but did not allow him to stay away on the night of conference (tonight) when everyone seems to get stupid drunk! So he is here but things are strained.

I just need more and he is incapable it would seem to give me what I need.

But thanks for asking and for you concerns


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LRgirl said:


> So he is here but things are strained.


Oh well...too bad so sad.

It's called a consequence.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> Nothing new has happened 55, it's weird but I have good weeks and bad weeks.......
> 
> Probably hasn't helped that it is conference season.
> 
> ...


Stupid Drunk that's a toxic work culture


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

I agree with your feelings and agree with most of the constructive posts, I disagree that I am still lying but that is so hard to prove because you don't trust me, this I understand as well, I will sit a poly anytime you want as this did actually make me come totally clean last time, I will never smoke weed again or even have a cigarette the only vices I have and want are you (and red wine) which we both like.

I will sign / do anything there is nothing more important in 
my life than you and our marriage, with either I relly do have nothing

If a failed poly means D then I have to accept that even if I know I am telling the truth, I don't have any facts to prove/disprove if they cut ally work but will do whatever it takes.

You want more than I know how to give, things are strained tonight because I stayed away last night , you told me to of this, I was willing to drive back exactly the same as I have done tonight, you said you needed to do this.

Read lots of messages on here about willing to let you go so you can be happy, well there is lines to a song somewhere which says I would rather have you unhappy than not at all, I know it is selfish to want you anyway but I do.

Your Sex is tremendous , fantastic, exciting , amazing and wonderful 

You have all my passwords email , work computer , phone tracker, if you want me to carry a spy camera with me do you can see where I am I will (do these things even exist, advice welcome)

I love you , our life and kids and want to grow old and grey with you and fulfill all our stupid and not o stupid dreams / plans for our future

All my love forever whether I am with you or not .... Sweet dreams xx


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Megmg, really good to see you here!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

megmg said:


> Read lots of messages on here about willing to let you go so you can be happy, well there is lines to a song somewhere which says *I would rather have you unhappy than not at all*, I know it is selfish to want you anyway but I do.


Welcome, megmg.

I have a thought for you. 

When you reach the point where you ARE willing to let her go so she can be happy, because her happiness is more important to you than your own, then I will believe you have truly 'gotten it.'

Until then, you are spinning words to save YOUR happiness. That's not love.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

turnera said:


> Welcome, megmg.
> 
> I have a thought for you.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

That's a standard reply for this site, please don't question my love you do not know me, the choice always has and does 
Lie with lrgirl. And I do get it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> She'd be ending the relationship because he CHEATED. The fact he failed the poly would just be the proverbial straw at this point.


Maybe so, but it's an invalid proverbial straw since a polygraph is unreliable. 

It would be like saying, he cheated on her multiple times, she forgave him but she was walking down the street and a bird crapped on her head and she divorced him because that was the proverbial straw.


----------



## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

megmg said:


> Ego - don't think I'm selfish by nature but that's for others to decide


You don't think you're a selfish person.



megmg said:


> I would rather have you unhappy than not at all, I know it is selfish to want you anyway but I do.


You know you're being selfish. 

These are YOUR words, no one elses.

This thread is a great example of why people should not invite their partners to this site. If he's done his homework he now knows he really has nothing to fear from the polygraph, and he can use that to his advantage, unlike the first time when, according to his posts, he came clean because he was afraid of the upcoming polygraph.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

northland said:


> Maybe so, but it's an invalid proverbial straw since a polygraph is unreliable.
> 
> It would be like saying, he cheated on her multiple times, she forgave him but she was walking down the street and a bird crapped on her head and she divorced him because that was the proverbial straw.


:rofl: your post made me smile and have a little chuckle. So thanks for that


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

That's what we're here for.

:toast:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

northland said:


> This thread is a great example of why people should not invite their partners to this site. If he's done his homework he now knows he really has nothing to fear from the polygraph, and he can use that to his advantage, unlike the first time when, according to his posts, he came clean because he was afraid of the upcoming polygraph.


 actually, he DOES have to fear the polygraph because she, like I and so many others, WILL take its results as proof of whether he's continuing to lie and she WILL dump him if he fails. Whether YOU love the sh*t out of a polygraph or hate it.


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

turnera said:


> actually, he DOES have to fear the polygraph because she, like I and so many others, WILL take its results as proof of whether he's continuing to lie and she WILL dump him if he fails. Whether YOU love the sh*t out of a polygraph or hate it.


My wording was poor. Perhaps he has reason to fear the test.

He isn't in the same situation he was the first time he took the polygraph, where he was so afraid he was going to fail that he came clean (or said he did) before he actually took the test.

Now, having read that a polygraph isn't always reliable, and knowing that his fate is in the hands of the test and not based on what he might admit to before the test, he's in a much better position, again, from having been brought to this forum and learning more than perhaps his BS would like him to know.

Besides, just because she says he's a goner if he fails the test doesn't necessarily mean that he's a goner if he fails the test.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> actually, he DOES have to fear the polygraph because she, like I and so many others, WILL take its results as proof of whether he's continuing to lie and she WILL dump him if he fails. Whether YOU love the sh*t out of a polygraph or hate it.


 Maybe re-reading the links in my signature -carefully this time- may get you to change your mind.


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Maybe re-reading the links in my signature -carefully this time- may get you to change your mind.


Maybe you should change your screen name to "Antipolygraph"


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

northland said:


> Maybe you should change your screen name to "Antipolygraph"


I like your style. 

The polygraph has its uses. It can be very useful indeed -as you know- but finding the "results" as an indication of truth is not one of them. 

Peace to the believers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

2asdf2 said:


> Maybe re-reading the links in my signature -carefully this time- may get you to change your mind.


Maybe you should stop your one-man agenda to highjack threads and convince the world that the polygraph will ruin our lives like it obviously ruined yours. Maybe then you could stop being so rude and pushy where it isn't wanted.

We get it.

Now please drop it.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> Maybe you should stop your one-man agenda to convince the world that the polygraph will ruin our lives like it obviously ruined yours. Maybe then you could stop being so rude and pushy where it isn't wanted.
> 
> We get it.
> 
> Now please drop it.


I have no personal experience whatsoever with the poly.

I have not been rude. it was gentle teasing full of smilies to let you know it was a tease.

Have a little humor.

I still like you


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

2asdf2 said:


> I have no personal experience whatsoever with the poly.
> 
> I have not been rude. it was gentle teasing full of smilies to let you know it was a tease.
> 
> ...


I am intrigued to know your story 2asdf2. I'm sorry if it is written on TAM somewhere.....maybe you could direct me to it. I like knowing the back ground of those who post, even if just a general outline


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

megmg said:


> I agree with your feelings and agree with most of the constructive posts, I disagree that I am still lying but that is so hard to prove because you don't trust me,
> 
> I do actually trust you will not cheat on me again. But I do not trust you are not still lying about your cheating. That is probably, and understandably because you continued to lie and hold back on two more cheats...only confessing to these 7 months ago.
> 
> ...


I did not have sweet dreams as awake at 3 am and on here looking for support!


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

megmg said:


> That's a standard reply for this site, please don't question my love you do not know me, the choice always has and does
> Lie with lrgirl. And I do get it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately, megmg, people here are going to question our love and devotion since we are *waywards*. We even made our partners/spouses question it with our actions (and we're lucky enough to have them still around to ask us anything), so how could strangers not question us? Now we have to prove ourselves. We have a LOT to prove.

LRgirl's latest comment on the thread indicates some things you could do to step up and make her feel like you're remorseful and committed to changing things for the better. This is your chance, and it sounds like it's the last one you're going to get. Don't waste it.

Also, she's not always going to repeat the things that she has been asking you to do or taking issue with throughout the years. I'm sure you know at least some of these things she has already mentioned. If you think you can do something to make her feel comforted or loved (not just physical interaction with her), just do it. Don't make her ask.

She still has questions (plainly stated above), and she needs the answers from you, not us.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

LRgirl,

Your husband knows... He doesn't want to tell you the details because he is afraid how you will react. He is not being completely transparent and is not doing true R.

You are 42. You have an absolute chance at a wonderful life. I'm 43. I met my gf who is also 43. My wife of 15 years walked out on me and for the most part my kids. She doesn't understand why they 'hate' her or why they always want to be over my house.

I fought until my wife moved out. I had checked out earlier but I wanted my kids to always know that I was willing to tow the line if needed and I always want them to respect me.

My wife moved out and I met my gf a few weeks later. I was normally shy but through all the things I went through after DDay, I became much stronger mentally, emotionally, and physically... I'll never completely trust anyone again but that is ok. I decided to take a chance on my gf... Been together 10 months. My kids love her to death. We have our issues. My wife traded me in for a tired old model that faded. I traded way up! 

Do things for yourself. Get stronger. Take chances! Enjoy your life!!!

GF with my boys... Mothers Day dinner early

View attachment 3146


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Moving ahead, very happy for you you in your life, but don't presume you know that I haven't told my wife the truth, the thing that puts me off this site sometimes is the presumption people know exactly what has been said, another bad night for us revolving around what happened and what has been said, I took offence at lrgirl saying on here that I have said don't remember and I don't know as I haven't said this words for a while, lrgirl does not understand the actions of what I did and honestly looking back I hate some of the stupid choices I made in the spur of the moment looking a for the the .buzz. 

Some people on here move on and get new relationships other are successful in R , I want to be one of the ones successful in R . However if lrgirl wants to move on then I have to accept that and know what I did caused it, I am under no illusions of this, but please do not assume moving on is the right thing for lrgirl to do as I truly believe we can be happy again .... Sorry for the rant its not personal to you or your post just p1ssed off at myself


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> LRgirl,
> 
> Your husband knows... He doesn't want to tell you the details because he is afraid how you will react. He is not being completely transparent and is not doing true R.
> 
> ...


I'm happy you are happy and you have successfully moved on. Good that your boys like your new GF too..... She looks lovely and very pretty, you are obviously very proud.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

megmg said:


> Moving ahead, very happy for you you in your life, but don't presume you know that I haven't told my wife the truth, the thing that puts me off this site sometimes is the presumption people know exactly what has been said, another bad night for us revolving around what happened and what has been said, I took offence at lrgirl saying on here that I have said don't remember and I don't know as I haven't said this words for a while, lrgirl does not understand the actions of what I did and honestly looking back I hate some of the stupid choices I made in the spur of the moment looking a for the the .buzz.
> 
> Some people on here move on and get new relationships other are successful in R , I want to be one of the ones successful in R . However if lrgirl wants to move on then I have to accept that and know what I did caused it, I am under no illusions of this, but please do not assume moving on is the right thing for lrgirl to do as I truly believe we can be happy again .... Sorry for the rant its not personal to you or your post just p1ssed off at myself


The only part of your posting that jumps out when I read it is ****I hate *some of the stupid choices* I made in the spur of the moment looking for the buzz. ****

Only some of the stupid choices?

I hate all of the stupid, selfish choices you made!


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Yes well I hate myself so we are equal and agree on something tonight then !


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

megmg said:


> Yes well I hate myself so we are equal and agree on something tonight then !


You come across as being very argumentative and impatient.....frustrated maybe?

Almost like you've had enough, or maybe that you feel forced into being here against your will?

I want to hear your heart and soul, not your anger and frustration...if that is too much to ask for then pack your bag.

I am not asking for much in return for what i got!

Right now I need to feel you are worth my pain....and right now you are not!


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

megmg said:


> Some people on here move on and get new relationships other are successful in R , I want to be one of the ones successful in R . However if lrgirl wants to move on then I have to accept that and know what I did caused it, I am under no illusions of this, but please do not assume moving on is the right thing for lrgirl to do as I truly believe we can be happy again .... Sorry for the rant its not personal to you or your post just p1ssed off at myself


I personally really want to see you two succeed in R.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I did not have sweet dreams as awake at 3 am and on here looking for support!





LRgirl said:


> You come across as being very argumentative and impatient.....frustrated maybe?
> 
> Almost like you've had enough, or maybe that you feel forced into being here against your will?
> 
> ...


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

You both seem very immature. I would say a separation would be best.

Lies are lies, period. Details are reinforcements but I would not trust this person again. 

If you can air your problems on TAM, go to MC or IC and really work. I don't see the need for a poly but I do see the need for a divorce or separation and some maturity to take place.

I don't believe if he cheats again, you will throw him out but I hope when he does, you will.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

megmg said:


> Moving ahead, very happy for you you in your life, but don't presume you know that I haven't told my wife the truth, the thing that puts me off this site sometimes is the presumption people know exactly what has been said, another bad night for us revolving around what happened and what has been said, I took offence at lrgirl saying on here that I have said don't remember and I don't know as I haven't said this words for a while, lrgirl does not understand the actions of what I did and honestly looking back I hate some of the stupid choices I made in the spur of the moment looking a for the the .buzz.
> 
> Some people on here move on and get new relationships other are successful in R , I want to be one of the ones successful in R . However if lrgirl wants to move on then I have to accept that and know what I did caused it, I am under no illusions of this, but please do not assume moving on is the right thing for lrgirl to do as I truly believe we can be happy again .... Sorry for the rant its not personal to you or your post just p1ssed off at myself


Your answers are text book for someone who cheated... I am just being honest. You got caught and you are here...

You haven't told your wife the entire truth. I am not presuming. I know you haven't because you are too defensive. You told her as much as you had to and you might have told her a little more than you wanted to but you are still being selfish.

There are little details that you are hiding or lied about because you fear the consequences of being utterly truthful because you feel it may hurt your cause toward R. You are are more concerned with your needs than your wife's and you act like you don't care but you are still being selfish and hanging on for selfish reasons.

You have no idea how damaging trickle truth's can be. If she finds out you hid little things later, she will trigger and wonder what else you hid and you will go back past square one and it will ruin any progress you had toward R.

You aren't being truly remorseful. You aren't being absolutely truthful. You are still being selfish. If you really want to save something you have to be willing to lose it and you aren't. You are still trying to control the damage YOU created.

It's not the way. The way is to be completely selfless, to put your BS needs before your own and to become the man you should have been all along.

I am not presuming anything. I'm telling you you are full of crap. I have seen it over and over and you are being text book. Your R will NOT last if you don't stop being selfish and start doing the heavy lifting.

Stop acting like a little spoiled brat and eat your veggies! You complain about being here... Leave then. Maybe you should read the threads of how devastating it is to the BS. The loss of children, of health, of confidence etc... Maybe you might get a glimpse of the damage you caused really. If you are brave enough to face that and you are willing to do what it takes you have a chance. If not, then stop acting like you are doing anything and let your wife go. Sign everything over to her and wish her a happy life.

To be honest, you are being a tool! Your wife deserves better so give her better or like she said pack your bag... just sayin...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> You come across as being very argumentative and impatient.....frustrated maybe?
> 
> Almost like you've had enough, or maybe that you feel forced into being here against your will?
> 
> ...


This is a very fair and generous offer to WH. If the cheater is an open book, BS can make a plan to climb the mountain of R. If the mountain keeps changing shape she cannot commit. Your R will become a miserable quest.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Rugs said:


> You both seem very immature. I would say a separation would be best.
> 
> Lies are lies, period. Details are reinforcements but I would not trust this person again.
> 
> ...


Sorry rugs, but why am I coming across as immature....I am simply doing the best i can in trying to save my marriage, home and family.

I am trying to be mature in not doing the easy thing in throwing out the father of my 4 kids.

That would be my easy option right now.

If I even had the smallest suspicion of cheating he would be gone. No second chances here!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

LRGirl, for men who demand affair details sex is often an obsession. And while honesty is great, if the BH pursues with questions like and then what happened, and then hears "I looked down saw he was big(ger than you) and couldn't wait for him to be in me," doesn't that really hurt chances of R?

What do you want to know?

Do you want him to search his memory for details that will lighten your burden. Would you like him to say that in a post coital cuddle with her, a guilty thought of you and the children flitted through his mind a few times but he was able to block it out by watching a movie with her or having more sex?

Should he have to court you now?

It is pretty brave of your WH to show up here. He will take many kicks from angry BS who never got the satisfaction letting out their anger.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> LRGirl, for men who demand affair details sex is often an obsession. And while honesty is great, if the BH pursues with questions like and then what happened, and then hears "I looked down saw he was big(ger than you) and couldn't wait for him to be in me," doesn't that really hurt chances of R?
> 
> What do you want to know?
> 
> ...


Longwalk. In a nutshell: You have no idea what you are talking about. I mean, utterly and completely, no idea at all.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> LRGirl, for men who demand affair details sex is often an obsession. And while honesty is great, if the BH pursues with questions like and then what happened, and then hears "I looked down saw he was big(ger than you) and couldn't wait for him to be in me," doesn't that really hurt chances of R?


Every BS is different. Some need to know everything that happened, everything that was said. Others only want the outline and main events. It just depends on the BS. Neither way is more correct. They just need to do whatever it takes to stop the free-fall they're in, and they need their waywards to cooperate with whatever that is.



LongWalk said:


> Do you want him to search his memory for details that will lighten your burden. Would you like him to say that in a post coital cuddle with her, a guilty thought of you and the children flitted through his mind a few times but he was able to block it out by watching a movie with her or having more sex?


Her burden cannot be lightened, but at least then she might be less haunted because there wouldn't be things she didn't know. She wouldn't have to constantly wonder what he did or said with those others. 



LongWalk said:


> Should he have to court you now?


A thousand times, *YES*! She thought she was special and loved, and now that feeling is severely destabilized. He has to do what he can to repair the blasted landscape of the marriage/their relationship (or create it anew), not to mention trying to restore what he drained from LRgirl by his actions. Her security, her comfort, her smile, her trust, what she believed, and so much more. Additionally, one should never STOP courting. Sure it won't be like it was in the very beginning - life gets in the way - but courting should never *stop*.



LongWalk said:


> It is pretty brave of your WH to show up here. He will take many kicks from angry BS who never got the satisfaction letting out their anger.


It _is_ brave of him, and great that he's willing to do so, but he has to realize that it's only the first step on a long road. Getting the perspectives of other BSs, whether on this thread or through reading other threads on TAM, is very useful.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> LRGirl, for men who demand affair details sex is often an obsession. And while honesty is great, if the BH pursues with questions like and then what happened, and then hears "I looked down saw he was big(ger than you) and couldn't wait for him to be in me," doesn't that really hurt chances of R?
> 
> What do you want to know?
> 
> ...


With this I agree. 

The need to know whatever level of detail the BS needs to know is not one open to argument. 

It is an emotional need. 

Driven by emotional parameters of each individual.


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## StarGazer101 (Jan 26, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Do you want him to search his memory for details that will lighten your burden. Would you like him to say that in a post coital cuddle with her, a guilty thought of you and the children flitted through his mind a few times but he was able to block it out by watching a movie with her or having more sex?


Talk about a blunt instrument!!! However it has been a useful comment for _me_ to take on board ..... I've a feeling I may just have taken a step forward.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

megmg said:


> That's a standard reply for this site, please don't question my love you do not know me, the choice always has and does
> Lie with lrgirl. And I do get it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm curious to know, HOW do you get it? Have you tried the role of a betrayed?

I won't speak for Lrgirl, but as a BS, I don't get at all how you can disrespect someone you claim to love like this. So how can you possibly know how it feels to have the carpet beneath your feet pulled away just like that? And how can you know how it feels to not know at all what to believe?

It's good to see that Lrgirl actually believe in you, otherwise my advice for her would to detach from the uncertainty.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> LRGirl, for men who demand affair details sex is often an obsession. And while honesty is great, if the BH pursues with questions like and then what happened, and then hears "I looked down saw he was big(ger than you) and couldn't wait for him to be in me," doesn't that really hurt chances of R?
> 
> What do you want to know?
> 
> ...


My H did not have an Affair Longwalk, he had 3 ONS so its highly unlikely he watched a movie with any of them! 

*Do you want him to search his memory for details that will lighten your burden.* Lighten my burden????????

It is not brave of a WS to show up here, providing we have grown ups reading and posting. The posters here at TAMS are trying hard to make things right!

I asked my H to come back to TAM, it isn't helpful when people slate him the moment he's back, we want support from you guys, honesty yes, but mud flinging I can live without. It isn't constructive, it's juvenile and very thoughtless!

Please, people of TAM, remember the majority of people here are hurting badly. We come here for help and support.

I can not stress enough how much i truly appreciate those of you who do not jump on the band wagon of condemnation. Both BS and WS alike.

If I don't like your posting, it's because I'm not impressed with it.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

_We all make mistakes, it is how we handle them that defines us.
Mistake, definition: An error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc._

cpacan, I like what you have as your foot note.

:iagree: We all make mistakes, it is how we handle them that defines us. This part in particular.

This is what I need my H to understand. I love him and I know he loves me. I can see the fear in him as he knows he is treading the tight rope to 'marriage over'

I try to explain, that what I need to know is enough for things to make sense to me. It isn't that I don't believe what he is telling me, it is that he is so guarded in what he tells me, he obviously doesn't trust me enough to deal with the full truth.

I can see that he is careful about how he answers me, instead of just answering me with the bare minimum.

He thinks about his answers before he answers me....you shouldn't need to think if you are being honest!


Let me explain one scenario.

He asks the last ONS OW 'do you want to meet up again?' he told me this of his own volition. It was hard to hear but I was grateful for the truth, after all he didn't have to tell me this. But he gives me the bare bones, no actual detail, where, when etc... (my imagination is shocking, so it needs the full truth as and how it happened or it makes up little scenarios)

So I'm thinking, OK, where was he when he asked her this....in the busy office? (did everyone hear him?) in my living room sat on the sofa with me? (that would be worse) on his own with her somewhere? (sh!t this is bordering an EA/PA) Where could they have been for him to ask her this?

Each statement creates new questions and answers!

So a few days ago he says they were on the stairs in work....so now I know he didn't text her from his phone sat next to me. He wasn't somewhere having a coffee with her secretly.....the whole office probably don't know about him asking this question.

Because he asked her on the stairs....when they were passing one another. OK it is still sh!t.......but i have it clear in my mind now.

This is what I'm asking for from him.....some detail that sounds genuine and not guarded....

We all can make mistakes, that is true. We can all make things better to some extent too.......but we have to be 'all giving'....no holds barred!

Do I talk a load of poo! Can anyone relate to me?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Megmg, if your situations were reversed, what would you want to know about the man or men who had sexual intercourse with your wife. What bothers one may not bother another. Did you give OW a pet name? Maybe the amount of money you spent on her will really anger her. The idea of your wife having anal sex with another dude would probably cause you intense misery but maybe your wife wouldn't care.

What does bother your wife is that you hesitate before replying because worry about the consequences of facts. Also, if you have some halv truths floating you have to protect them. The easiest way is to trust her. If she asks you if you told OW you loved her, just fess up and take what comes. Sure you might say something that really hurts. But poison of your trickle truth is the worst right now.

On a soul to soul level you need lick any sore that is not healing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

LRgirl, everything you say makes perfect sense. If I got the ONS aspect wrong, i apologize
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> LRgirl, everything you say makes perfect sense. If I got the ONS aspect wrong, i apologize
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It would probably be wise if you read the back ground between myself and megmg.

He had 3 ONS....all colleagues, all opportunistic incidents...no PA as such....not that the truth isn't bad enough....because it truly is....but he wouldn't be here in my home if he'd had a full on PA.(although, i'm not 100% convinced he hasn't)

Look up Megmg profile and postings, he has explained fairly graphically what he has done wrong.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

LRgirl...

I don't think it is brave at all for your husband to show up here. You basically dragged him here. He didn't show up on his own volition.

I am being tough on him because you are being too easy on him. He is rug sweeping. He isn't doing the heavy work.

I bet he complained that he did what you asked and he came on here and he just got a lot of crap from a lot of angry people and none of it was helping so he's not doing it any more... and you let him off.

That is your choice. You want him to FEEL the pain he caused and understand it so he can be in touch with his feelings and yours... I'm pretty sure he isn't put together like that... Some guys will never get it and I think he is one of them. Yes he knows he hurt you, but since he doesn't think it is nearly as big a deal as you do.

He wants you to get over it already... 

It's your life... You can let him get away with that but I don't think it will help in the long run. You need to set firm boundaries and consequences or not...


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I wish you both and your kids the best, I really do.

But, I think you are being reckless to EVER let WS be on an overnight trip. And WS, if you find yourself drinking anywhere women might be but without your wife right next to you, then you deserve no respect from anyone, especially your wife and kids.

DON'T YOU BOTH SEE CERTAIN BEHAVIORS AND SITUATIONS BRING GREAT RISK?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

LRGirl,

If I understand your need for more details, it stems from the nature of our built-in lie detectors: if someone is being truthful, then all the details given in a timely fashion upon request will easily fit together; if someone is lying, mistakes will be made and inconsistencies will emerge; delay/stall tactics *could* be signs that one is struggling to remember old lies and synthesize new ones that don't conflict.

If that's where you are at, I get it. Seems like a sensible desire to me.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

LRGirl,

Having him sign a post-nup is different from the vows.

Marriage vows, when broken, result in few consequences, and none legally enforced (at least in my locale).

Post-nups, in some locales, can be enforced by the courts (check with your lawyer first), and, so, I would think give WS a really significant financial and other incentive to record the truth now and walk the straight and narrow in the future. So, if that is what you want from him - truth and future integrity - then I wouldn't so easily dismiss the idea of a post-nup.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

I was kind of hesitant to post on this thread given the charged atmosphere. But figured what the hell the worst you can do is come to my house and steal my tea. LR it sounds like you are having a bad time and for that I am truly sorry, your posts fairly thrum with pain and make it difficult to read. No one deserves to have there love and trust tossed aside. And one wants to find themselves in love with a deceiver, that has to kill you. I would bet you always told yourself you would never have feelings for someone who could do that. I think the point is not what he has or has not done the point is that in YOUR eyes it is not enough. Really that is all, the very fact is that whatever he has done to try to make you trust him again has not been enough.

I don't know where you go from here only you know that but it seems to be you and your relationship has been put on pause neither going forward or backward. I would suggest time apart but at the same time if you do separate I would also wager that you would move on with you life without him. Please choose a path that does not cause you to bleed so much. I would also like to say that many on TAM just want you to be happy we just disagree on who to help you get there.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Soulpotato what is your story? Have you started a thread yet?


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

CEL said:


> Soulpotato what is your story? Have you started a thread yet?


No, I haven't started my own thread, I just hop around reading and commenting on other threads.  

I'm a former wayward, 3 EAs. I've learned a lot about myself from TAM and reading books like Not Just Friends. (Not Just Friends was awesome - I've had severe boundary problems for most of my life and that book helped me more than anything else ever has.) Trying to get to R with my GF at this point. We're separated at the moment, but things are going much better than they were, so maybe I'll be able to report differently in a few more months. 

(Sorry for the hijack, LRgirl!!)


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> No, I haven't started my own thread, I just hop around reading and commenting on other threads.
> 
> I'm a former wayward, 3 EAs. I've learned a lot about myself from TAM and reading books like Not Just Friends. (Not Just Friends was awesome - I've had severe boundary problems for most of my life and that book helped me more than anything else ever has.) Trying to get to R with my GF at this point. We're separated at the moment, but things are going much better than they were, so maybe I'll be able to report differently in a few more months.
> 
> (Sorry for the hijack, LRgirl!!)


No problem, and its no hijack....I think its important we all know what path each is on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Happy Mothers Day!

Wondering if yours is going well...


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> Happy Mothers Day!
> 
> Wondering if yours is going well...


Mothers Day in UK was back in March 

Hoping all the Mums here have a good day x


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> No, I haven't started my own thread, I just hop around reading and commenting on other threads.
> 
> I'm a former wayward, 3 EAs. I've learned a lot about myself from TAM and reading books like Not Just Friends. (Not Just Friends was awesome - I've had severe boundary problems for most of my life and that book helped me more than anything else ever has.) Trying to get to R with my GF at this point. We're separated at the moment, but things are going much better than they were, so maybe I'll be able to report differently in a few more months.
> 
> (Sorry for the hijack, LRgirl!!)


It sounds to me like you are actively doing everything you can to make things right. You seem to be analyzing yourself and working on issues and reading and just wanting to make things better. Being here of your own volition to try to understand the BS point of view is a really good way of understanding at least some of how your GF feels. Another perspective as it were.

Did you ever come close to moving on from EA to PA?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

CEL said:


> I was kind of hesitant to post on this thread given the charged atmosphere. But figured what the hell the worst you can do is come to my house and steal my tea. LR it sounds like you are having a bad time and for that I am truly sorry, your posts fairly thrum with pain and make it difficult to read. No one deserves to have there love and trust tossed aside. And one wants to find themselves in love with a deceiver, that has to kill you. *I would bet you always told yourself you would never have feelings for someone who could do that. I think the point is not what he has or has not done the point is that in YOUR eyes it is not enough. Really that is all, the very fact is that whatever he has done to try to make you trust him again has not been enough.*
> 
> I don't know where you go from here only you know that but it seems to be you and your relationship has been put on pause neither going forward or backward.*I would suggest time apart but at the same time if you do separate I would also wager that you would move on with you life without him.* Please choose a path that does not cause you to bleed so much. I would also like to say that many on TAM just want you to be happy we just disagree on who to help you get there.


All posters are welcome on all of my threads, except for those who outright condemn. Lots of different opinions is good, providing something helpful and constructive is being posted.

I never for one second thought my man could ever do this to me and his family......not ever. Thoughts have crossed my mind in the past, because of his lack of thought when away from home, but NO, I never truly believed he was doing anything he shouldn't....except drinking too much alcohol.

Alarm bells should have been ringing...when a spouse goes away over night and contacts you early evening and then nothing.......well it says a lot...it says he doesn't care and he's forgotten you, he's having too much fun and isn't thinking about you. I know this now. I just feel such a fool for not really thinking clearly about this sooner....I just trusted like a fool I guess.

dont know where to go from here either, had a terrible day when all I can think of his separation.....it isn't the path I want to go down, but I feel it is my only option.

Why? Because I guess i just will never be able to reconcile these two men rolled into one. 

I will never trust him again.

I will always remember what he has done to me.

Since May 2011 I have had this on my mind almost all of the time....he's dragged out my pain, he's watched me suffer, he's continued to lie to save his own sorry ar$e.

I simply feel I cannot live with this knowledge.

I will never understand why?, how? and he can't help me with this apparently, because he's done all he can.

......and it's getting very hard work. I believe he may have some big issues that need sorting, and that's for him to do, not me.

On a positive note, he said to me yesterday that I've never looked better......and he's not the only one to say that recently.

I'm 42 and looking better than ever...that is a good thing for me.

The women he swapped me for, you can imagine...for them to be so easy to have ONS with a colleague and it mean nothing to them...tramps, not good looking tramps too  which makes me think I couldn't have mattered so much to him.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> It sounds to me like you are actively doing everything you can to make things right. You seem to be analyzing yourself and working on issues and reading and just wanting to make things better. Being here of your own volition to try to understand the BS point of view is a really good way of understanding at least some of how your GF feels. Another perspective as it were.


Thank you, I'm doing my best. I very much want to make things better and became a safe, stable person. I want to be able to bring happiness to GF if she decides to R with me, and I want her to be able to trust that I won't betray her again. I find it incredibly helpful to read what BSs say here, because they're sharing their true feelings. I think sometimes GF worries about hurting *me* too much and so she inhibits the expression of her feelings. It kills me that she keeps trying to sacrifice herself for me, even after what I did.



LRgirl said:


> Did you ever come close to moving on from EA to PA?


No. I had the opportunity with 2 of the OWs and had no desire to take it there. Sex or even kissing with them was a do-not-cross line in my mind, and I didn't want real relationships with them in the first place. GF thinks that I could have gotten physical in the right situation, but I really don't think so. I felt uncomfortable being alone with the OWs and made sure to avoid that. One of them "threatened" to kiss me one time, and I immediately had the notion to throw myself into the water (we were outside) if she made a move towards me!


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I will never understand why?, how? and he can't help me with this apparently, because he's done all he can.
> 
> ......and it's getting very hard work. I believe he may have some big issues that need sorting, and that's for him to do, not me.


R is hardest on the BS. 



LRgirl said:


> The women he swapped me for, you can imagine...for them to be so easy to have ONS with a colleague and it mean nothing to them...tramps, not good looking tramps too  which makes me think I couldn't have mattered so much to him.


I know it's confusing, but in my experience and from what I've read from other waywards, attractiveness and how much the wayward values his/her spouse don't necessarily line up with cheating or a lack thereof. You could be the most beautiful, most amazing person in the world, and your spouse might still cheat on you with society's most pitiful rejects. While still extolling your virtues, no less. I know I certainly told my APs how much I loved GF, how great she was, and how she was my favorite person in the whole world. My APs were all less attractive than GF in every way imaginable.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I could really do with some book advice for my WS and myself also.....looking for the best books to read ....not necessarily EA related, because to my knowledge my H has never crossed those lines..... but boundaries and crossing them.

Compartmentalization, switching off from spouse and family so you can have sex with another....not feeling too much in the way of guilt before, during or after..etc....until found out!

Maybe IC would be the best solution, but in UK we are not too hot on counselling and that is probably because the counselors dont know what they are talking about.

H did go to a couple of MC sessions and he bought the book....but it was so vague and unrelated to his / our needs...to a large extent we counselled ourselves, it's just that lately its come to rear its ugly head when i still felt sore and felt H had 'got away with it' :scratchhead: maybe not even that....cos i have given him hell and then some. So obviously lots of issues still to deal with.

Because he's doing everything he can in many ways, but not on the issues of why? and how? and to proof our marriage from this ever happening again.

In my opinion there is a massive difference between having a PA/EA either long or short....and having ONS...as its spontaneous act rather than ongoing lies and planning etc... 

So good books please


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> Thank you, I'm doing my best. I very much want to make things better and became a safe, stable person. I want to be able to bring happiness to GF if she decides to R with me, and I want her to be able to trust that I won't betray her again. I find it incredibly helpful to read what BSs say here, because they're sharing their true feelings. I think sometimes GF worries about hurting *me* too much and so she inhibits the expression of her feelings. It kills me that she keeps trying to sacrifice herself for me, even after what I did.
> 
> 
> 
> No. I had the opportunity with 2 of the OWs and had no desire to take it there. Sex or even kissing with them was a do-not-cross line in my mind, and I didn't want real relationships with them in the first place. GF thinks that I could have gotten physical in the right situation, but I really don't think so. I felt uncomfortable being alone with the OWs and made sure to avoid that. One of them "threatened" to kiss me one time, and I immediately had the notion to throw myself into the water (we were outside) if she made a move towards me!


*What do you mean "It kills me that she keeps trying to sacrifice herself for me, even after what I did"
*
*She sounds like she's well worth your hard work? *

*So what was it about then? If you never intended it to go to another level....was it for reassurance? For ego? for your self esteem? Did your GF make you feel wanted....I'm not asking you to in any way blame or say there was a lacking in your GF but BS feel like they weren't somehow enough? I know you have said this in a general sense, but in your own personal relationship....did your GF leave you unfulfilled? Maybe, on some level?*


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> *What do you mean "It kills me that she keeps trying to sacrifice herself for me, even after what I did"
> *
> *She sounds like she's well worth your hard work? *


I mean that despite my betrayal of her with the EAs and all the pain I've caused her, she still sometimes sacrifices herself for me in that she seems to hold back on saying what she's thinking and feeling about it all because she doesn't want to hurt ME. She is very much worth my hard work.



LRgirl said:


> *So what was it about then? If you never intended it to go to another level....was it for reassurance? For ego? for your self esteem? Did your GF make you feel wanted....I'm not asking you to in any way blame or say there was a lacking in your GF but BS feel like they weren't somehow enough? I know you have said this in a general sense, but in your own personal relationship....did your GF leave you unfulfilled? Maybe, on some level?*


Okay, I'll talk about the relationship issues, but with the understanding that I'm in no way excusing or justifying my cheating. Also to be noted is that in my previous state, I needed too much, and my BPD was not being treated. (My PD affects how I perceive, think, and feel quite a lot, so it bears mentioning. It affects how I interact, so I can actually exacerbate or create problems with just the way I was/am.) That said...

Reassurance, self-esteem/self-worth, affection, and escape were what I was seeking. I wanted to *feel* special to someone, even if it was fake. At the time, I felt like I wasn't important to her or needed by her. I didn't feel respected. I felt undesirable as a person and unwanted, and that her creative endeavors were more important to her. She would often be emotionally distant and disconnect from me (not emoting or expressing affection either verbally or physically), and didn't seem to be passionate about me. (Yet there would be times when she could be affectionate.) She also has anger issues. Most of the time when I managed to bring these things up, she became defensive or angry. We had major communication problems, which are still being worked on.

P.S. I hope I answered your questions adequately. I have a really hard time getting everything out in one attempt, cohesively, intelligibly, and concisely!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

EVERY couple should have to read His Needs Her Needs, together. AND do the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> I mean that despite my betrayal of her with the EAs and all the pain I've caused her, she still sometimes sacrifices herself for me in that she seems to hold back on saying what she's thinking and feeling about it all because she doesn't want to hurt ME. She is very much worth my hard work.
> 
> *Do you feel your GF could maybe find it hard to share how she thinks and feels with you? Is she open and sharing with you in her nature? So maybe it's hard to know what she's thinking and feeling? *
> 
> ...


Thank you, Always look forward to your input.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

turnera said:


> EVERY couple should have to read His Needs Her Needs, together. AND do the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires.


Thanks Turnera, I will go to amazon and order His needs, Her needs. 

Don't know what the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires is???

Do we have it on TAM?


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> Do you feel your GF could maybe find it hard to share how she thinks and feels with you? Is she open and sharing with you in her nature? So maybe it's hard to know what she's thinking and feeling?


Actually...that could definitely be part of it. She generally seems to have trouble talking about feelings and emotional subjects, and I, on the other hand, want to talk about them way too often for her comfort. She's not an emotionally open person. But I know she definitely holds back on certain things because she worries about me. 



LRgirl said:


> You are correct, nothing excuses cheating of any kind on any level....however, I think most BS can accept a little truth of how they are perceived in the relationship, providing it isn't being used as a reason or excuse the betrayals.


I'm very leery of trying to explain how I thought or felt, or even to try to talk about how my issues tie into the relationship problems, because some BSs might jump to thinking, "Excuses/justifications!" because of their experiences, etc. But that's not where I'm trying to go at all. It's just that those things are actually *relevant* in the context of the relationship and in explaining what went on in my head AND what's wrong with me, you know? It DOESN'T make anything "okay" or mean that I'm not working like hell to change those things, but the fact is that it affects things. My HEAD was messed up, so that meant that a lot of what came from ME was messed up, only I couldn't see it because I was still upside down. 

To me, it's actually insulting (and hurts me, too) that people would think I would try to excuse or justify my betrayal of GF. I certainly wouldn't be doing the hardest thing I've ever done in my life (tackling my BPD and facing myself while marinating in the shame of being a wayward) if I felt that way, and that's something I would only do for her. Anyone who knows anything about BPD will tell you that a BPDer would typically evacuate the area and sacrifice almost anything rather than spend a minute in the same room with shame. Even though I can _understand_ why people would be watchful of excuses/justifications, that's just not where I'm coming from. I'm here because I love her. She knows what all of this means, even if no one else does.

You know, it's probably ridiculous that I feel insulted/hurt sometimes by what others say. I do logically understand why people would see from the outside just another wayward trying to excuse/justify their actions when trying to explain or explore things, especially if they're already primed from dealing with being betrayed themselves. Also, they don't know me, all they know is that I'm a cheater, regardless of what I say or do. But the silly feelings remain. 




LRgirl said:


> I hold my hands up, I didn't listen hard enough, I didn't compromise where and when I should have. Unfortunately it wasn't pointed out so I didn't realise my short comings.


It's very generous of you to say that at this point when your pain is still so fresh, but even if there were things that a WS needed that weren't being supplied, the cheating was still the sole responsibility of the wayward and their own awful choice. I own that with GF, too. Sure I felt shut down and rejected by her, but instead of trying even harder, telling her I couldn't go on that way, or breaking down and dragging us to therapy, I turned to others to patch those holes and supply what I needed from _her_. I avoided and withdrew from the discomfort. Couldn't bear it. My limitations, my failures, not hers. I don't know why she doesn't throw me away, but I'm so grateful, and I can't express what it means to me that's she still loves me and allows me to spend time with her.



LRgirl said:


> So when it comes out now.....since i discovered he cheated...it's very hard to hear as it feels like blame. It should always be dealt with before one partner makes a bad choice in crossing wrong lines. But that said, you are fully entitled to realise your GF is not perfect and has faults of her own....we all do, we are human. WS need to be careful they do not put their BS on some pedestal...like BS are perfect, because nobody is!


I can imagine. Yes, exactly, it should. But that's assuming the partners who will become waywards have the ability to deal with whatever it is in the way they should. Please rest assured, I am not blaming any BS for anything. Every day, I think about what I've done. Writing on TAM is always emotional for me, and I have cried during or after posting more often than not. Oh, I know. I know GF has faults, but she's a damned fine person, and as I've told her, she's stuck being my better half, even if she walks away. 



LRgirl said:


> You could be my H writing this! I believe he felt very similar, except I have no creative side. If my H brought things up, which wasn't often, and in fact could probably count on one hand and two fingers the times he did....I would probably take it as criticism....I get the feeling he just couldn't be doing with any confrontation...almost feel like he treated me like his 'other' mother. So nothing got resolved. From either side regarding many things.


From the sound of it, your H and I do have some things in common. The unresolved issues definitely start to fester over time. GF said that sometimes she felt I was her child with how she had to "caretake" with me. It frustrated her. I brought things up with her many times, just as she did with me, but we were both tuning each other out and being dismissive on certain things. GF and I both shy away from confrontation, but over different things and in different ways. It's really kind of complicated and weird.



LRgirl said:


> How does your GF deal with your BPD.....it must be hard for both of you.


Before I went into therapy, she had a really hard time with it. I didn't feel like we fought that much or that badly, but she did. Also, we're both emotionally reactive, so if she got upset about something, I would tend to get upset right back (very) and be incapable of having a productive discussion about whatever it was. She tried peacemaking in the beginning of the relationship, which was very hard on her and didn't resolve anything. Then she tried letting me run all over her boundaries, which also was very hard on her. I would also dump my feelings on her (which is another boundary issue, I think) and freely talk about my suicidal and self-harming impulses/actions when they occurred, which was a huge stress on her. Our entire relationship, she worried that her actions or words would "cause" me to hurt myself (she tended to take responsibility for things that weren't hers due to her own background) and it made her a hostage of sorts. Since I've been in therapy, however, things are greatly improving with our interaction. 

My BPD drives me crazy. Literally, sometimes. To me, it feels like being possessed. I tried dealing with it on my own, and I just couldn't. Even though they say I'm high-functioning and it's not in the "severe" range, it has still just about destroyed me, my life, and everything I love over the years. Before therapy, I just kept veering into self-destruction (and taking the people I cared about with me). Now, I can actually imagine a future in which I can be healthy and stable. I'm determined to get there.



LRgirl said:


> You answered everything more than adequately, cohesively, intelligently and concisely!


Yay!! Thank you. :smthumbup:

If no one has recommended it to you yet (and I can't recall if I have!), _Not Just Friends_ is a good book.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Books that I have found to be good for a relationship

1: 5 languages of love
2: His needs Her needs
3: Love Busters
4: Surviving Affairs "supposed to be good"

All of these are available from amazon and as kindle books. I have not read them all as I am making my way through them "I am not in a hurry as we currently have no elephants in the room". I wish I could give you some advice that will help you out of the maze of pain you are in but reading your story I do not think there is any advice that is going to make it better. I think since you have been dealing with this since 2011 that you need a break from the pain I would suggest a separation of a month to give you both some time where you are not always dealing with the pain. Pain is like a grinding wheel your emotions have been grinded down for so long only the more primal are left a separation can give you perspective a time where you can choose to NOT think about the pain where you can focus on other things because the object of your pain is not always around you. Hope this finds you well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LRgirl said:


> Thanks Turnera, I will go to amazon and order His needs, Her needs.
> 
> Don't know what the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires is???
> 
> Do we have it on TAM?


 No, they go with HNHN. You can get them off of Harley's website, marriagebuilders.com. But avoid their forums - they are more toxic than helpful.

Do the LBQ first, and work on eliminating those LBs you do that hurt your partner - those are habits to break, so it'll take a while. Love Busters Questionnaire

Then do the ENQ. But read the book first. Altogether, it's a great system for improving your marriage.Emotional Needs Questionnaire


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