# Erotic book as a gift



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening ladies
the "shades of grey" discussion made me wonder - how would you feel about getting an erotic novel like that as a gift from your husband / long term boyfriend? (or any other sort of sexy / intimate gift)

Too embarrassing? Romantic? Crude? Sexy? 

I'm well aware that opinions may vary a lot - just curious.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

If you're going to buy books for a woman, you need to make sure she's a reader and that you choose something she'll enjoy reading. I would also think there are events and holidays where giving the gift of porn/erotica might be more appropriate than others, so choose carefully. 

I prefer to give and receive presentation-quality books as gifts. Hardback and some combination of beautifully illustrated, rare, antique, or unusual. A beautifully bound copy of the Kama Sutra, would be a good example of what I would enjoy receiving. Something I wouldn't ordinarily pop down to the corner store and buy for myself.

I'm sure many women would like to receive a copy of 50 Shades. It just wouldn't really do it for me personally.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yep, you need to find out first if she would even be interested in it.

From what I've heard about the quality of the writing, I'd have a problem getting very far into it.

Plus S&M is not my thing. So I doubt I'd enjoy that part of it either.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Rowan
She definately reads. She reads some mildly romantic stuff (lots of guys in silk shirts accidentally caught out in the rain sort of thing) but if she reads more explicit stuff, she hasn't told me. (she doesn't talk about sexual things much - though is happy to engage in them).


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I would love it.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Would love it as a gift!


...my birthday is August 4th. Now I can finally tell my husband what I want. lol


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Would love it as a gift!
> 
> 
> ...my birthday is August 4th. Now I can finally tell my husband what I want. lol


After you tell him... let us know how he responds to the request.


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

Those books are horrible. I sell a ton of books in the erotic romance genre (erotica is something else completely) if you guys would like better written and way sexier stuff to read.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> After you tell him... let us know how he responds to the request.


He just said "ok, that's what you can expect to get for your birthday." lol


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> He just said "ok, that's what you can expect to get for your birthday." lol


If he asked you for porn for his birthday, would you get it for him?


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Back in the day, it was about D.H. Lawrence.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> From what I've heard about the quality of the writing, I'd have a problem getting very far into it.


You haven't heard wrong.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

So long as it was my idea of raunchy and he were willing to read it to me? Yes!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> If he asked you for porn for his birthday, would you get it for him?


I'm not dignifying this with a response. If you don't like my opinions fine, but you don't have to patronize me for them.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

EleGirl said:


> If he asked you for porn for his birthday, would you get it for him?


This is actually a serious answer coming from me. but I would .. IN fact It was me who searched for an old VHS that he loved in his teens and found it on Amazon & bought it again, about strippers - so many years ago.

I WISH my Husband would have thought to buy me Erotic books / sex books back in the day...he always wanted more sex over me..and I was an avid reader, he knew I loved Romances.. so Yeah... would have been a great thing for me.. some Hot lingerie & a Steamy romance.. this would have gotten him many favors!

The problem with us was.. we really didn't buy each other gifts, we just did that for the kids..


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Rowan
> She definately reads. She reads some mildly romantic stuff (lots of guys in silk shirts accidentally caught out in the rain sort of thing) but if she reads more explicit stuff, she hasn't told me. (she doesn't talk about sexual things much - though is happy to engage in them).



Then ya, a sexy book would be a nice idea, but I'd also put in a gift card to the local book store so she could pick her own later! Kind of just in case she doesn't care for it, it's not really a dumb present then! 

My H gave me a nice hardback book about tantric sex while we were dating.... not a novel, a how-to. Love it....


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I'm not dignifying this with a response. If you don't like my opinions fine, but you don't have to patronize me for them.


It was a question I would be tempted to ask too simply because the word, "Pornography" was coined long before the invention of the camera to describe a sexually explicit story written for prurient entertainment. That's still the primary definition in English dictionaries and other lexical works.

There's a tendency today (And I don't for the life of me understand why) to attempt to exempt written forms of pornography from the definition, so for me, the question would simply be prompted by human curiosity over how consistent we're all willing to be about our entertainment choices and not a desire to patronize anybody. 

I read Fifty Shades out of curiosity, but have to say that the book irritated me in the handful of places where Grey's behavior crosses the line into that of a predator and I found myself fantasizing over how much fun I would have with 'ole Christian if I happened upon him alone in the Mazatzal wilderness.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening ladies
> the "shades of grey" discussion made me wonder - how would you feel about getting an erotic novel like that as a gift from your husband / long term boyfriend? (or any other sort of sexy / intimate gift)
> 
> Too embarrassing? Romantic? Crude? Sexy?


I'd like it. But that's because I enjoy good erotica. 

However, if someone gifted me with the stupid 50 Shades crap, it might be the end of our relationship. That is not literature. that is litera-sh*t that praises abusive relationships.

There is a LOT of good erotica out there and I think it's sexy.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon Jellybeans
Some suggestions perhaps

Seriously. I've see a little erotica written for women, but I can't tell the good from the bad - it wasn't written for me






Jellybeans said:


> I'd like it. But that's because I enjoy good erotica.
> 
> However, if someone gifted me with the stupid 50 Shades crap, it might be the end of our relationship. That is not literature. that is litera-sh*t that praises abusive relationships.
> 
> There is a LOT of good erotica out there and I think it's sexy.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty triology.
Anais Nin. Loooove her.
Both are female authors and good writers.


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## salespro (Jan 15, 2014)

I gave my wife a copy of "50 Shades". She never even looked at it. Sort of sums up our marriage.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I'd like it if he bought me classic literature that was racy for its time. I'd be insulted, I think, if he presented me with Shades of Grey or its ilk.

I gave him a copy of Story of O early in our relationship, and I think he still considers it one of his favorite gifts. 

But everyone is different, as evidenced by the answers here.

ETA: I'm also an Anais Nin fan, though she is worlds apart from the "bodice ripper" romance you describe your wife reading. I also always found Gone With the Wind and Jane Eyre strangely erotic. Hmmmmm, dominating men . . . no surprise there, I suppose.


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## ajheart (Jul 28, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening ladies
> the "shades of grey" discussion made me wonder - how would you feel about getting an erotic novel like that as a gift from your husband / long term boyfriend? (or any other sort of sexy / intimate gift)
> 
> Too embarrassing? Romantic? Crude? Sexy?
> ...


I've been folding books as a side hobby for quite some time. Some of them are erotic, and often, they really help spice up the lives of people that have received them. Please PM me if you'd like me to send you some material that can help you 'spice' up your life


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> It was a question I would be tempted to ask too simply because the word, "Pornography" was coined long before the invention of the camera to describe a sexually explicit story written for prurient entertainment. That's still the primary definition in English dictionaries and other lexical works.
> 
> There's a tendency today (And I don't for the life of me understand why) to attempt to exempt written forms of pornography from the definition, so for me, the question would simply be prompted by human curiosity over how consistent we're all willing to be about our entertainment choices and not a desire to patronize anybody.
> 
> I read Fifty Shades out of curiosity, but have to say that the book irritated me in the handful of places where Grey's behavior crosses the line into that of a predator and I found myself fantasizing over how much fun I would have with 'ole Christian if I happened upon him alone in the Mazatzal wilderness.


I understand what you mean. The reason I know she's patronizing me is because there is another thread asking what we think of men who use porn, and I stated that I am vehemently against it, and that I am still very much hurt over my husband watching it behind my back and it still gives me self-esteem issues to this day.

I don't understand why someone would want to make fun of me for that, and it hurts. But apparently that kind of thing is allowed here.


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

Anais Nin--one of the very few that was able to write erotic fiction and be very effective with it. Her skill in the craft was incomparable.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening GettingIt
Makes it tricky, doesn't it. Some people would think it was great, some would be insulted. :scratchhead:






GettingIt said:


> I'd like it if he bought me classic literature that was racy for its time. I'd be insulted, I think, if he presented me with Shades of Grey or its ilk.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening GettingIt
> Makes it tricky, doesn't it. Some people would think it was great, some would be insulted. :scratchhead:


It's a matter of knowing the recipient of the gift.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> If he asked you for porn for his birthday, would you get it for him?





ariel_angel77 said:


> I'm not dignifying this with a response. If you don't like my opinions fine, but you don't have to patronize me for them.





ariel_angel77 said:


> I understand what you mean. The reason I know she's patronizing me is because there is another thread asking what we think of men who use porn, and I stated that I am vehemently against it, and that I am still very much hurt over my husband watching it behind my back and it still gives me self-esteem issues to this day.
> 
> I don't understand why someone would want to make fun of me for that, and it hurts. But apparently that kind of thing is allowed here.


I only just saw these replies of yours. Do you assume that everyone here reads every word you write and burns it into their memory? You are jumping to conclusions and attacking me for no good reason. I am certainly not patronizing you. I am certainly not patronizing you. I did not make fun of you. I’m not sure why you reacted this way.

When I asked that question I had no idea what you opinion on pornography is and certainly did not know (or recall) that you had this issue with your husband. That’s why I asked it out of honest curiosity. Many people consider books like this one to be written pornography. It definitely fits the definition of pornography. So I wondered if you were as ok with your husband asking you for pornography as you are with you asking him for it.

You have answered the question. No it’s not ok for him but its ok for you. My bet is that you do not realize that a lot of men are bothered when their wives read things like this book. Many people do not realize that it’s about the same thing.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

It was a very valid question. She would ask the same question to a man who said it was ok for him to watch porn but his wife is not allowed to read a book filled with S&M and sex.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I'm not dignifying this with a response. If you don't like my opinions fine, but you don't have to patronize me for them.


Wow that was unnecessary.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

lenzi said:


> Wow that was unnecessary.


Not really. Her question was unnecessary when she obviously knows how I feel about it.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

richie33 said:


> It was a very valid question. She would ask the same question to a man who said it was ok for him to watch porn but his wife is not allowed to read a book filled with S&M and sex.


Yeah, I'm such an awful person to not want my husband to get off to naked women other than me, but to want to be able to read a book that has sex in it.

Honestly, if she would have phrased it "why is this okay with you but porn is not?" I would have explained to her why and would not have felt offended. The way she said it very much made me feel like I was being made fun of. And I realize that it's hilarious to many of you that I would ONLY want my husband to get off to my naked image and no one else's. That's your opinion.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

You seem to be the type of woman that would make your relationship partner feel like he's walking on eggshells all the time.

Do you react with swift, strong anger when your husband says something to you that you feel is hurtful and offensive?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Not really. Her question was unnecessary when she obviously knows how I feel about it.


Did you read my reply to you? I had no idea what your feelings about porn are.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Honestly, if she would have phrased it "why is this okay with you but porn is not?"


I phrased the question the way I did because I had no idea what your view is on porn. 


ariel_angel77 said:


> I would have explained to her why and would not have felt offended.


Again I could not have written the question the way you suggest because I had no idea what your view of porn is. Since you asked for the books I was actually thinking that you were ok with porn on some level but just wondered if you would buy him porn in the same way you want him to buy you porn.


ariel_angel77 said:


> The way she said it very much made me feel like I was being made fun of.


I cannot help it if you are imagining things and assigning motives to what I post. That’s your problem not mine.


ariel_angel77 said:


> And I realize that it's hilarious to many of you that I would ONLY want my husband to get off to my naked image and no one else's. That's your opinion.


Again you are assigning motives and thoughts to others that are your thoughts. If you are opposed to your husband using porn that’s a valid point of view. 

I know that there are some people here who think that porn is the Holy Grail right to every man and anyone who does not agree with them is just wrong. But their opinions have nothing to do with me. 

Just like they need to be able to accept that people have different opinions and not take those opinions to heart, so you do.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Yeah, I'm such an awful person to not want my husband to get off to naked women other than me, but to want to be able to read a book that has sex in it.


I don't mean to be jabbing a stick into an open wound and I'm sorry if that's what I'm inadvertently doing here.

To be fair though, this is not just a book that has sex in it. This is a book that revolves around a fictional male character named Christian Grey.

Just like the painted up, collagen injected, silicone implanted, surgically altered, perpetually horny porn star is a fictional construct that most women don't feel they compare favorably to, Christian Grey is a twenty-seven year old billionaire, jet setting, helicopter hopping, sophisticated, educated, altruistic, uber successful business magnate and bad boy with the face of Adonis and the body of a Greek statue who possesses a sexual prowess and exudes a confidence that makes grown women stutter and trip over their own feet. 

It would be absurd to claim that many, if not most of the women who read this book are not vicariously having violent sex with Christian Grey via the vignette, Anastasia Steele. That's the whole attraction of fiction. It carries you away to an imaginary place where you become part of the story. 

I'm not saying that ladies shouldn't read this type of fiction if they want to. Not at all. I'm just pointing out the lack of an ethical difference here.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I really don't see a difference between erotica and porn. It seems like there is no clear line between romance novels, erotica like "shades of grey", hard core pornographic writing and erotic pictures and soft core or hard core pornography. 

All are fantasies designed to create arousal. (which is fine).

The characters in romance novels are no more (or less) realistic than the characters in porn films. 

There is certainly deviant porn that most people would find disturbing, but then there are the writings of DeSade.....

Finally there is illegal porn that shows the abuse of children, or actual rape. Clearly unacceptable, but I put it in the same category as the writings of rapists and child molesters.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> I really don't see a difference between erotica and porn.


It's hard to compare the two (IMO) because those terms come from entirely different systems of classification.

"Erotica" is a literary genre. "Pornography" is defined along linguistic and legal lines.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> Christian Grey is a twenty-seven year old billionaire, jet setting, helicopter hopping, sophisticated, educated, altruistic, uber successful business magnate and bad boy with the face of Adonis and the body of a Greek statue who possesses a sexual prowess and exudes a confidence that makes grown women stutter and trip over their own feet.


Thanks for the recap . . . I just tripped and bit my tongue.  



ocotillo said:


> I'm not saying that ladies shouldn't read this type of fiction if they want to. Not at all. I'm just pointing out the lack of an ethical difference here.


I guess my only quibble with your "lack of ethical" difference here is with the use of real vs. imaginary actors in effecting titillation. I'm very uncomfortable with some types of visual porn because I can't get past the line between choice and exploitation when it comes to the human beings doing the performing. In other words, I don't like how not knowing whether or not that line was crossed affects my enjoyment. I simply cannot relax into it knowing that such exploitation exists, and there is no way for me to tell.

With a book like Shades of Grey, I don't experience the same struggle. The characters, or "actors" are figments of someone's imagination, for me to do with what I will. 

This difference might also matter to folks who are determining whether or not they are comfortable with the porn use of their partners. 

In my mind, works of "porn" exists only to titillate, shock, or take a human quality or behavior to an extreme with no other directed purpose by its creator. Sometimes a work (be it written or visual) can contain elements of pornography, without being a work of porn over all. The Song of Ice and Fire series comes to mind--lots of "violence porn" in there, IMO. I mean, Martin kills, maims, and tortures people in just about EVERY conceivable way there is to do so. Are the books porn? I don't think so because I judge there is purpose and value beyond the elements of violence. Others might not see such purpose, and deem the whole lot "porn." It really is quite subjective, how we assign "value."


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I guess my only quibble with your "lack of ethical" difference here is with the use of real vs. imaginary actors in effecting titillation. I'm very uncomfortable with some types of visual porn because I can't get past the line between choice and exploitation when it comes to the human beings doing the performing.


I would agree that there are additional ethical considerations with real, live people that hopefully would influence a person's entertainment choices. But I think you know that's not the distinction that was drawn farther up this thread. 





GettingIt said:


> In my mind, works of "porn" exists only to titillate, shock, or take a human quality or behavior to an extreme with no other directed purpose by its creator. Sometimes a work (be it written or visual) can contain elements of pornography, without being a work of porn over all. The Song of Ice and Fire series comes to mind--lots of "violence porn" in there, IMO. I mean, Martin kills, maims, and tortures people in just about EVERY conceivable way there is to do so. Are the books porn? I don't think so because I judge there is purpose and value beyond the elements of violence. Others might not see such purpose, and deem the whole lot "porn." It really is quite subjective, how we assign "value."


I would object if we're conflating literary classifications which are pretty subjective with linguistic and legal definitions which have to be as objective as we can possibly make them. People sometimes quote the late Potter Stewart in an attempt to claim otherwise, but I think they might not be aware of how much the subject has been revisited since then.

But even strictly as literature, I'm kinda reminded of the claim that Madeleine L'engle never wrote science fiction because her books were too good to be science fiction. Is Cleland's Fanny Hill not pornography because it's proven to be an enduring classic?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon GettingIt
From what I can tell the great majority of porn is made by actors / actresses who are happy to do what they are doing in return for money. See some of the interviews with the Duke student who was recently outed as a porn star - she chose doing porn for ~$300/hour over flipping burgers for $10/hour. A well considered and rational choice - FOR HER, though obviously not for everyone. 

There is also a lot of homemade porn made by exhibitionists for free, simply because they are turned on by the idea of people watching them. Certainly not my kink, but whatever floats their boats.

There is some abusive porn, but it is rare and getting rarer. The internet provides such a vast array of porn, that it simply isn't worth it for people to commit crimes to make more abusive stuff. 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not claiming all porn stars love their jobs, but it doesn't seem that they are any less happy than the average worker. 




GettingIt said:


> I guess my only quibble with your "lack of ethical" difference here is with the use of real vs. imaginary actors in effecting titillation. I'm very uncomfortable with some types of visual porn because I can't get past the line between choice and exploitation when it comes to the human beings doing the performing. In other words, I don't like how not knowing whether or not that line was crossed affects my enjoyment. I simply cannot relax into it knowing that such exploitation exists, and there is no way for me to tell.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon GettingIt
> From what I can tell the great majority of porn is made by actors / actresses who are happy to do what they are doing in return for money. See some of the interviews with the Duke student who was recently outed as a porn star - she chose doing porn for ~$300/hour over flipping burgers for $10/hour. A well considered and rational choice - FOR HER, though obviously not for everyone.
> 
> There is also a lot of homemade porn made by exhibitionists for free, simply because they are turned on by the idea of people watching them. Certainly not my kink, but whatever floats their boats.
> ...


It sounds like you are comfortable with your assessment; you do not have to justify yourself or your rational to me. 

I don't have the level of comfort with porn that you do, and probably never will. It's not a matter of what people (even porn starts) say is true or not true about porn and exploitation; it is a matter of what I believe to be true. It's a matter of that little nagging voice in my head. I rarely ignore her.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> I would agree that there are additional ethical considerations with real, live people that hopefully would influence a person's entertainment choices. But I think you know that's not the distinction that was drawn farther up this thread.


I don't know, actually. I didn't read the whole thread very closely.  I honed in on your post because a thought had occurred to me about the personal "ethics" of the consumer regarding visual vs. written porn. I'm sorry if I jumped into a more nuanced debate than I picked upon from your post. 




ocotillo said:


> I would object if we're conflating literary classifications which are pretty subjective with linguistic and legal definitions which have to be as objective as we can possibly make them. People sometimes quote the late Potter Stewart in an attempt to claim otherwise, but I think they might not be aware of how much the subject has been revisited since then.


I think the run of the mill TAM discussion of porn rarely deals with objective linguistic and legal definitions . . . 



ocotillo said:


> But even strictly as literature, I'm kinda reminded of the claim that Madeleine L'engle never wrote science fiction because her books were too good to be science fiction. Is Cleland's Fanny Hill not pornography because it's proven to be an enduring classic?


Depends on who you ask. If you're asking me, I'll have to get back to you after I read it.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening GettingIt
I'm curious: honestly curious, not "curious" as in "I think you are wrong". 

Why do you think making porn is abusive to the actors? Have you seen something or known someone involved in the business?

Please - I can't think of a way to phrase this that doesn't sound like I'm saying "you are wrong", but really that isn't my intent. Many people share your views, and I am interested in the source of those views. 

My views come from things like the interview with the "duke student", but I am aware that she may be lying in the interview in order to increase her income. 

I have never met anyone personally who did porn so I don't have any direct information either way. 




GettingIt said:


> It sounds like you are comfortable with your assessment; you do not have to justify yourself or your rational to me.
> 
> I don't have the level of comfort with porn that you do, and probably never will. It's not a matter of what people (even porn starts) say is true or not true about porn and exploitation; it is a matter of what I believe to be true. It's a matter of that little nagging voice in my head. I rarely ignore her.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening GettingIt
> I'm curious: honestly curious, not "curious" as in "I think you are wrong".
> 
> Why do you think making porn is abusive to the actors? Have you seen something or known someone involved in the business?
> ...


My gut tells me so. And the discomfort doesn't stop with the knowledge that there could be abuse, but with the knowledge that sometimes very, very broken people end up doing things they would not do if they were not so broken. 

I don't need to read interviews, studies, statistics. I'm a human being, same as they are.


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