# Totally confused.



## X42 (Nov 9, 2011)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57519-kissing-cheating.html

Link to my original thread. 

So, after many months, I've begun considering divorce, or at the very least separation from my wife. Aside from the history as detailed in my OP from the above thread, a few months back I had a serious heart to heart discussion with my wife regarding our intimacy issues and my frustrations. I got her to tell me exactly what the issues were that she saw with our marriage that prevented more intimacy, or desire. Without going into details, I haven corrected everything that she asked me too. I told her that I wanted to rekindle the passion and love we had for each other years ago, and she said she wanted to as well.

Things were great for a while; intimacy was increased, etc. but to me, looking back, it felt forced on her part. She became more intimate because I wanted her too, not because of a true desire. I've told her, countless times, that I just want her to have the same feeling of desire that I have for her. 

I've written countless love letters, notes, etc. and gotten very little in return. She says she has a hard time expressing herself emotionally and that's the reason for the lack of responses. To me, that's a bullish!t excuse. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable. I'm not asking for anything more than to be loved and desired. While she listed 5 things that she wanted me to work on, I only asked her to work on the intimacy issue. 

So I decided I would give this my all, go all in, and see what results were produced. I've asked her to go to the gyno to see if she has a birth control, or hormonal issue....she hasn't gone. I've asked her to describe her sexual fantasies to me....nothing. Regardless, I continued my best efforts over the past few months. And now I'm just tired. I'm over it. 

In reference to my original post, the kissing another woman thing (if that's all it really was) has continued to eat at me. I know I don't respect her in the same way I used as a result of that whole incident. I haven't fallen out of love with her per se, but I don't look at her the same. I don't think I ever can.

So I don't know what to do. We have a 3 year old, and I'm pretty sure my fear of disrupting my child's life is one of the only reasons I am afraid to act. Do I continue in a marriage that leaves me unfulfilled for the sake of my child, or do I embrace the unknown and try to start fresh? Totally confused. Thank you for reading.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Your child will grow up and use your marriage as a model of what a relationship should be. You can bet your bottom dollar that your child will see the unhappiness you have in the relationship. Your unhappiness will affect how you treat your child

So, the answer to your question "Do I continue in a marriage that leaves me unfulfilled for the sake of my child, or do I embrace the unknown and try to start fresh?" should be obvious.

Try and fix it and then move on.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

X42 said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57519-kissing-cheating.html
> 
> Link to my original thread.
> 
> So, after many months, I've begun considering divorce, or at the very least separation from my wife.


This is fully justified in light of her unacceptable behavior and not confessing to the full extent of her actions. That lack of confession on her part is completely understandable.



X42 said:


> Aside from the history as detailed in my OP from the above thread, a few months back I had a serious heart to heart discussion with my wife regarding our intimacy issues and my frustrations.


Did you try to interrogate her on her swinging activities? The root of your problem with her is your passive, semi-submissive Delta Male wheedling for sex. She rightfully must bear the blame for her swinger activities, but women are changed by that. I already explained the brain chemistry IIRC. Plus that went on, off and on for many months. Your weak sexual approach just doesn't work with any woman. What did the poly come up with?



X42 said:


> I got her to tell me exactly what the issues were that she saw with our marriage that prevented more intimacy, or desire. Without going into details, I haven corrected everything that she asked me too. I told her that I wanted to rekindle the passion and love we had for each other years ago, and she said she wanted to as well.


Well, that paragraph right there tells me that you did not read any of the material you were directed to. That is not the way to "rekindle the passion" as you put it. You don't discuss it with her, you just do it.



X42 said:


> Things were great for a while; intimacy was increased, etc. but to me, looking back, it felt forced on her part. She became more intimate because I wanted her too, not because of a true desire. I've told her, countless times, that I just want her to have the same feeling of desire that I have for her.


Of course that's the way it ended up. Instead of continuing to try the same wrong sappy ineffective strategies woman's magazine seduction strategies, you need to actually do stuff that increases a woman's libido, not kills it with a display of needy Delta/Gamma behaviors.



X42 said:


> I've written countless love letters, notes, etc. and gotten very little in return.


That's exactly what I'm talking about. Repeatedly doing the same thing over and over, which never works without the required dominant behavior to counterbalance it, and expecting a different result is the very definition of....something. You're constantly violating The Sixteen Commandments. Doing that will insure your wife has no interest in sex (at least not with you).



X42 said:


> She says she has a hard time expressing herself emotionally and that's the reason for the lack of responses. To me, that's a bullish!t excuse. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable. I'm not asking for anything more than to be loved and desired. While she listed 5 things that she wanted me to work on, I only asked her to work on the intimacy issue.


And you wasted your time doing what she thought she wanted you to do. That's because what women THINK they want, and believe they SHOULD want from a man rationally and what they actually CRAVE from a man sexually is in no way the same thing. Why don't you try something new and actually educate yourself about women by reading MMSL, Vox, and Roissy? NMMNG should also be read. Now, you've been given that reading list before and you clearly have not read one word from any of them. Since your way doesn't work, why not try the right way?



X42 said:


> So I decided I would give this my all, go all in, and see what results were produced. I've asked her to go to the gyno to see if she has a birth control, or hormonal issue....she hasn't gone. I've asked her to describe her sexual fantasies to me....nothing. Regardless, I continued my best efforts over the past few months. And now I'm just tired. I'm over it.


And that's exactly NOT what numerous posters on here told you to do. You keep doing it your way. Your wife doesn't have a medical problem and she knows it. Her problem, aside from her swinger activities which may or may not be in the past, is that you are sexual kryptonite to her. You could fix this, at least for your next woman, but you persist in your blue pill state.



X42 said:


> In reference to my original post, the kissing another woman thing (if that's all it really was) has continued to eat at me. I know I don't respect her in the same way I used as a result of that whole incident. I haven't fallen out of love with her per se, but I don't look at her the same. I don't think I ever can.


Yes, it's bad. Even through your rose colored glasses.



X42 said:


> So I don't know what to do.


Take the red pill and leave aside your childish girly notions of romance. You were given lots of good advice in your previous thread, none of which you paid any attention to. Divorce is most likely justified due to adultery. You could educate yourself on how to be attractive to a woman and become sexually appealing; that may or may not work with her. You might try it.

If you don't want to do that, when Friday night rolls around, tell her to shave her bush because yall are going to the swingers club. She'll light up like Hiroshima.



X42 said:


> We have a 3 year old, and I'm pretty sure my fear of disrupting my child's life is one of the only reasons I am afraid to act.


DNA said he was yours?



X42 said:


> Do I continue in a marriage that leaves me unfulfilled for the sake of my child, or do I embrace the unknown and try to start fresh? Totally confused. Thank you for reading.


You can start all over, you're 100% justified, but you're going to end up in a sexless place all over again in your next relationship if you don't enter the real world and learn how to get a woman initiating sex with you instead of you begging and wheedling for mercy sex.


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## hope4family (Sep 5, 2012)

Good advice on those sixteen commandments.


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## X42 (Nov 9, 2011)

I've read the books and done the 180. At the same time I felt, and feel, that it was only fair to ascertain her feelings on any shortcomings I had that may be contributing to the problems we've had. I don't think for one second that that is being beta, omega, or whatever. I feel that is what you do when trying to fix your relationship. 

Yes, the child is mine. Had DNA testing done so that's not a concern.

I've cut out the love letters, the compliments, the initiating. More so because I'm tired of it than because I'm trying to illicit a reaction from her. Yes, she notices. She doesn't like it, or to be clear, doesn't like that my attention gets focused elsewhere and not on her.

If I don't initiate affection, she won't. I don't think I should have to jump through hoops to get affection from my wife. 

If I knew my child would be ok, this decision would be a lot easier, I think. It's the fear of damaging her that has me concerned and afraid to pull the trigger. Ugh.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

It is often said that children would rather BE from a broken home than LIVE in one
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

X42 said:


> I've cut out the love letters, the compliments, the initiating. More so because I'm tired of it than because I'm trying to illicit a reaction from her. Yes, she notices. *She doesn't like it, or to be clear, doesn't like that my attention gets focused elsewhere and not on her.*
> 
> *If I don't initiate affection, she won't.* I don't think I should have to jump through hoops to get affection from my wife.
> .


She wants your attention, that's good. By initiate affection do you mean "affection" or sex? It's rare for women to initiate sex after the preacher says "you may kiss the bride." The problem comes when you can't get her fired up to follow enthusiastically with your initiating sex.

Run the MAP if you're not getting enough. And run it to the end.

No question kids do better in a two parent home, but sometimes it just is not possible to persevere. I knew a guy who did it against the WW's wishes (before no fault) because the kids would have been exposed to some seriously bad stuff. In the end, the law in his state changed and she was able to get a divorce. By then, the kids could choose who to live with.


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