# Would you date an Uber driver?



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Rather than participate in a thread jack on someone else's dime, that's the question.

To paraphrase @ReformedHubby, should you date the garbage man at the risk of falling in love? Is the good old fashioned manual laborer relegated to a life as an incel, one day driving his Uber onto the sidewalk and mowing down the women who find his current occupation unworthy, or is there still a place in the world for someone with lesser job aspirations than the corner office?

I'm a firm believer in the mathematical necessity that half of all people have an IQ below 100. Not everyone is college material. Many who are just aren't interested. What then shall we do with the rest?


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Rather than participate in a thread jack on someone else's dime, that's the question.
> 
> To paraphrase @ReformedHubby, should you date the garbage man at the risk of falling in love? Is the good old fashioned manual laborer relegated to a life as an incel, one day driving his Uber onto the sidewalk and mowing down the women who find his current occupation unworthy, or is there still a place in the world for someone with lesser job aspirations than the corner office?
> 
> I'm a firm believer in the mathematical necessity that half of all people have an IQ below 100. Not everyone is college material. What then shall we do with the rest?


If someone is physically attractive, they'll find someone no matter what they do. Even full-time drug dealers most often have little problem attracting women. Men are no better in this regard.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Rather than participate in a thread jack on someone else's dime, that's the question.
> 
> To paraphrase @ReformedHubby, should you date the garbage man at the risk of falling in love? Is the good old fashioned manual laborer relegated to a life as an incel, one day driving his Uber onto the sidewalk and mowing down the women who find his current occupation unworthy, or is there still a place in the world for someone with lesser job aspirations than the corner office?
> 
> I'm a firm believer in the mathematical necessity that half of all people have an IQ below 100. Not everyone is college material. Many who are just aren't interested. What then shall we do with the rest?


There are a lot of jobs that people who do not have a college education can do. And not all people who do not have a college education have an IQ below 100. About half of them are men and about half women. I'll bet that they will date and maybe even end up marrying.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Had to post because the title made me smile!

I honestly don't see any issues with dating anyone at any socioeconomic status.

The barriers are all mental and social in origin and I would love to see more intersocioeconomic matches myself.

I'm not intimidated by a woman at any level and wouldn't think twice about dating someone I found attractive.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There are a lot of jobs that people who do not have a college education can do. And not all people who do not have a college education have an IQ below 100. About half of them are men and about half women. I'll bet that they will date and maybe even end up marrying.


I didn't even graduate high school but, more often than not, I make 6 a year.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I didn't even graduate high school but, more often than not, I make 6 a year.


Six what?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Cletus said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't even graduate high school but, more often than not, I make 6 a year.
> ...


6 dollars an hour...he should sue minimum wage is a couple dollars higher now...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> I didn't even graduate high school but, more often than not, I make 6 a year.


Exactly! Some of the most financially successful people I know never finished high school and/or never went to college.

Now my son is a high school drop out. But he is now working on a Phd in Physics and Nano since.

Everyone has their own path.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

forget iq. forget all those damned stupid tests. i have had my IQ tested a few times. it has been tested to be as low as in the 60s, and much higher. i was put in a special education class for retards when i was a young boy. i have also tested out of a hell of a lot of college courses without studying because i already knew the material.

for nearly everything i have ever done in life, i have had someone tell me that i couldnt do it. either i was too stupid, too inexperienced, too small and weak, or the goal was too hard. 

truth is, you can NEVER know where people will go in life or what they will do. you can either encourage them, or you can discourage them, but you cannot know what they will do with their lives. i was the class retard once. i know what that feels like. i also know what it feels like to score higher than all the AP students on their final exam without ever even taking the AP class itself. 

at one point, i was an unemployed adult living in a swamp by myself. but i managed to make about a hundred thousand dollars within 10 months of that time. god only knows what i would have done if ANYONE would have believed in me and given me straight answers.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Exactly! Some of the most financially successful people I know never finished high school and/or never went to college.


My plumber is loaded. No education to speak of. Not terribly bright. He is the nicest guy and a REALLY good plumber as well as a decent business owner. I would not date him since we have nothing in common. But he is very happily married so it works for him.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Cletus said:


> I'm a firm believer in the mathematical necessity that* half of all people have an IQ below 100.* Not everyone is college material. Many who are just aren't interested. What then shall we do with the rest?


Well... Me personally? This would be my first problem. Intelligence is my first requirement in a partner. I won't suffer a fool. Now, that doesn't mean a college education (my husband does not have one), but intelligence, high intelligence is a must for me. I very quickly lose interest in people I find dimwitted. 

Now that said, "would you date an Uber driver"? If that is all he wanted to do with his life. If that was the extent of his motivation and drive? The maximum of his capabilities? Absolutely not. 

Ambition is sexy as hell. I would want a man who wanted more for himself. 

I want a partner who matches me in drive and capability. Doesn't have to be in the same arena (my husband works in a totally different field), but they have to rise to my level. I wouldn't want to make a life with someone where I felt I had to pull all the weight.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Sure, I'd date an Uber driver, provided we had common interests. Isn't Richard Branson a drop-out? Didn't stop him from amassing an empire. Not that empire-building is for everyone ...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I shouldnthave said:


> Well... Me personally? This would be my first problem. Intelligence is my first requirement in a partner. I won't suffer a fool. Now, that doesn't mean a college education (my husband does not have one), but intelligence, high intelligence is a must for me. I very quickly lose interest in people I find dimwitted.
> 
> Now that said, "would you date an Uber driver"? If that is all he wanted to do with his life. If that was the extent of his motivation and drive? The maximum of his capabilities? Absolutely not.
> 
> ...


i have rarely encountered anyone who was actually "dimwhitted". i have encountered plenty of fools though. the funny thing is that most of those fools are actually quite intelligent. my half sister, for instance. she was a fool for a good 15 years. but after a little time spent with me, seeing how i view life in general, and now she is doing great things. she was addicted to meth for a decade and a half, throwing away everything. she lost all her teeth to meth. thought she lost her husband, and her daughter. but, now, she is making outstanding financial decisions, directing her own life, paying her own way. and she got her daughter a job working with her at the same place so that both of them can transition into a well paying career. and she is preparing the way for her husband, who will get out of prison later this year, to work in that career field.

i have seen it so many times... people are capable of SO MUCH! i CANNOT wait to see what my brother in law(half sisters husband) will do with his life when he gets out of prison. he is at the starting line, ready to run. **** his damned past, **** where is right now. he is lined up in the blocks, ready to blast. 


i find those who have no ambition to be fascinating. i examine them. i question them. in pretty much every case so far, i find that they have no ambition because they believe that they cannot accomplish what they want. its incredibly sad. it doesn't sit well with me at all. 

my wife and i dated a girl last year from new york. she had no ambition. we worked on her. she is now back in NY recording original music with a studio, and i couldn't be happier for her. she has an AMAZING singing voice. before she came to us, she thought she was just an overweight black jewish girl with bad psoriasis, with no options. and at first, that is EXACTLY how she acted. today, she is on her way to be a star. beautiful. she is far more beautiful and capable than she realized. 

most people are.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It would depend on the individual. One of our drivers was a software engineer by day. Another a successful professional poker player. And another a wealthy retiree doing it for fun and social interaction. Others were more average, of course. So, you can't generalize and compare them to "sanitation engineers."


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I will probably get flamed for this, but I think women want different things than men. Women want security (aka MONEY), but you better have a good way to make it with minimal time investment or she will either leave or cheat. You also better find time to go to the gym VERY regular. 

Men, want looks, eye candy, and a sex kitten. Most men are find with minimal brains, as long as they hit the gym. 

Uber driver? I think that depends on age and goal set. 20yo, working through college, sure! 40yo, only job? Uh, NO. Why? Because that shows a complete lack of ambition IMO. Sure, I could have a dream job as a life guard at the local pool checking out hotties all day long, but does that really show ambition? 

Personally, I am learning to comb for women in the same "IQ range". IQ is NOT defined by education, however. Know plenty of grads that could not put gasoline in a lawn mower or wash laundry or cook. I also know people that bombed high school that are sharp as a tack. believe it or not, you do NOT have to pay tuition to get an education!!!!! You can buy the exact same books outside of the college doors. All it takes is 'ambition' to learn something new. I have learned that most people do not have much interest in learning just for the fun of it. I love it when people say 'take a cooking class', like that is what you have to do to learn how to cook. NO, you can actually do a lot of learning from a book and the Inet these days. 

I guess I am in a mood....lol


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> To paraphrase @ReformedHubby, should you date the garbage man at the risk of falling in love? Is the good old fashioned manual laborer relegated to a life as an incel, one day driving his Uber onto the sidewalk and mowing down the women who find his current occupation unworthy, or is there still a place in the world for someone with lesser job aspirations than the corner office?


While it does make for interesting discussion its not what I meant. Blue collar does not mean broke or unambitious, and it certainly doesn't mean stupid. Lots of blue collar guys doing very well. The uber driver thing was an example. This may not be PC to say, but if you are an unambitious man without a plan you're not good enough for my daughter. I make no apologies for feeling that way. To me a grown man that is an uber driver and content with that is the opposite of ambitious, and I don't know many women that would prefer that given a choice.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

First, not half the population has an IQ under 100. That’s not how data distribution works. 15 points of IQ is one standard deviation from 100, and that covers roughly 2/3rds of people. Sure, there is a significant difference between 115 and 85, but most people have average IQs. That may not mean much, but while 99 or 97 is technically below average, it is statistically insignificant.

That being said, intelligence and career is just one part of it. Really, I need someone humorously intelligent.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

No 

I also wold not date a waitress, doctor,police officer,politican, and a few other professions.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

chillymorn69 said:


> No
> 
> I also wold not date a waitress, doctor,police officer,politican, and a few other professions.


This is an interesting topic.

I think many, many of the men I dated a year ago (when I was dating) viewed my situation as a character flaw - as opposed to a very deliberate lifestyle choice.

I don't own a house. I don't own a car. I work and live full time at a lodge and make minimum wage. 

Yet, I have two degrees, and I'm financially independent. 

But, it's kind of amusing to me, because we never get to that part. 

I even had one guy go off on me for being fiscally irresponsible. He never asked me questions, like what's my philosophy about money, am I saver or spender, or do I have any debt. We hadn't even met, but he came to his conclusions based on very limited information. 

And I'm fine with how I seem to be perceived. I'm not gonna go buy tons of stuff so that I appear dateable.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

minimalME said:


> This is an interesting topic.
> 
> I think many, many of the men I dated a year ago (when I was dating) viewed my situation as a character flaw - as opposed to a very deliberate lifestyle choice.
> 
> ...


My answer was based on other factors with the professions I mentioned. 

Uber driver... time of working hrs, danger level,
Police officer... high incidence of alcohol dependence and divorce,suicide 
Doctor... no time for family
Waitress... all the dudes trying to pick up waitresses,late working hrs.


No really based on earnings at all!

Politician.....do you even need an explination. Yuck. The slimy of the slime!


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

I wouldn't rule someone out just because of their job or social status. That said, I find drive and success to be attractive characteristics in a person. If the person was content being an Uber driver and wasn't doing anything else interesting with their life, that would be a huge negative. If the person was driving Uber while putting themselves through school or as a second job to save money to start a business or because it helped them make ends meet while they worked on their novel or something like that, I'd have a different perspective.


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## Clockwork (May 2, 2018)

Just wondering here, does this apply to factory workers? Because I do a "manual labour" job too. I would say half of the population does. Most of your grandfathers did too (or fathers depending on how old you are). Studies have shown that 40 years ago men were stronger than they are today with a better grip. Why? Because there were more manual labour jobs. Were they not "worthy" enough or ambitious enough? I do a job at a factory that almost no one else can do day in day out even within my plant. I don't miss a days work either. Here is the thing, if a man works hard every day, then he should be worthy for anyone. There are plenty of lazy men these days, but if you find a hard worker, stick to him.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> Sure, I'd date an Uber driver, provided we had common interests. Isn't Richard Branson a drop-out? Didn't stop him from amassing an empire. Not that empire-building is for everyone ...


RB came of age at a time when most Brits didn't go to university. My exH's best friend went straight into work after graduating from public school (post private schools), usually grads at that level are 19 yo.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Exactly! Some of the most financially successful people I know never finished high school and/or never went to college.
> 
> Now my son is a high school drop out. But he is now working on a Phd in Physics and Nano since.
> 
> Everyone has their own path.


I left school at fourteen after graduating high school.Never went to college and was earning over a million by the time I was twenty two.
A million a month that is.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> I left school at fourteen after graduating high school.Never went to college and was earning over a million by the time I was twenty two.
> A million a month that is.


The probability that this type of education vs income can be replicated is in par with being drafted in the NBA directly from middle school...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

john117 said:


> The probability that this type of education vs income can be replicated is in par with being drafted in the NBA directly from middle school...


You once were kind enough to send me some information on what type of work you do and what you actually have a PhD in after I asked you how being a psychologist correlated with working in the electronics industry.
Can you honestly tell me that the PhD made any difference to your expertise in the workplace you find yourself or would a masters have sufficed.
We can argue this over and back John but most of these certifications may as well be wallpaper for all the end use they are put to.
I ran installations for a few years all over Europe and for the electrical supply I would use a local contractor and he could connect,test and commission the electrical end of things.Then the rules changed and you had to have a degree to test anything.We then had the ridiculous situation of electricians with years of experience not being able to request a supply for the installation and some newly qualified guy could.
I am not talking about huge loads here,less than 5KVA would be normal.
It is just a meaningless way to justify certifications.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

john117 said:


> The probability that this type of education vs income can be replicated is in par with being drafted in the NBA directly from middle school...


I'm sure the NCAA has some rules and regulations so that they remain in control .... and in profit...... of these things.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

john117 said:


> The probability that this type of education vs income can be replicated is in par with being drafted in the NBA directly from middle school...


The other thing to remember is that in Western Europe there are many layers of post high school education and training ..... other options for career preparation than university for a much longer period than the US has.

High school level education is usually controlled at the national level so a high school diploma from anywhere in that country meant the same thing.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The PhD is useless, but... It gives credibility. Which is what upper management and customers want. The money follows


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

john117 said:


> The PhD is useless, but... It gives credibility. Which is what upper management and customers want. The money follows


You are a capitalist after all John lol. That is what I told you before about education when you suggested that a prospective suitor for your daughter needed to have “a degree or even two”. Why go back for more education if you are making a fortune off the bat. 
On a different subject entirely I am in a bar with some relatives in Ireland right now and the Eurovision Song Contest is on tv. I’m pretty sure your country of origin is represented.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

There are all different kinds of intelligence. While I have the math/science abilities, I do not have the quick verbal or natural musical improvisational intelligences. More important to me than raw IQ would be personality, passion for something, and general good character. Good personal hygiene too! Someone who dull to be with regardless of IQ would be a big turn-off.

These days financial responsibility is something I would need in a long term partner. Someone with low or no debt, and who will be self sufficient in retirement. Wealthier is better of course, but as long as they would not be a drag on my finances it doesn't matter to me what their economic class is.

One of my uncles is on his 4th wife. The first 3 died of various natural causes. All 4 have been very different personalities and talents. There's more to a good match than matching IQs.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Would you date an Uber driver?


Not if I had to use the app to call them 

I would date anyone (if I was dating) if I thought they were nice and if I liked them as people. 

I come from relatively poor background but was financially pretty much independent by the time I was about 10 or 12. I was earning money from a young age. And I didn't have to work anymore by the time I was 30. Anything's possible. I did get a masters degree but in terms of career, it didn't play such big a role. I think a good degree/higher education can increase your chances for success quite significantly but it will not guarantee it. 

If anything was 'guaranteed' any certain way, everyone would do it this way and it would *stop* being guaranteed.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> RB came of age at a time when most Brits didn't go to university.


Yeah, so what's your point?


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Since when have lower income/blue collar men had trouble finding mates? Or are we talking about the Uber driver not being able to attract the women who meet HIS standards because he doesn't meet theirs? Don't get to have it both ways...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

zookeeper said:


> Since when have lower income/blue collar men had trouble finding mates? Or are we talking about the Uber driver not being able to attract the women who meet HIS standards because he doesn't meet theirs? Don't get to have it both ways...


Why does the Uber driver have to be male.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Why does the Uber driver have to be male.


Because if it was a female, it would be called 'Unter', not 'Uber' :nerd:


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> Yeah, so what's your point?


I am saying that a lot of people RB's age did not go to university so the fact that he doesn't have a university degree is not unusual / remarkable for someone his age and citizenship / origin / whatever.......


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## grays (Jun 24, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> To me a grown man that is an uber driver and content with that is the opposite of ambitious, and I don't know many women that would prefer that given a choice.


I am an uber driver myself and I do it because it's a blast and it makes it possible for me to be with my kids whenever they need me. I have them 50% of the time and I love it that I can do 90% of my work when they're with their dad. 

My exh and I were both lawyers and it was a miserable existence. We were never living for the present. Everything was about making money and shoring up our future. I feel like I didn't start living until my 25 yr marriage was over. 

When I started feeling like I wanted a more serious relationship after being single for a while, I was really hoping to find someone who had a similar feeling about money -- that it's not as important as love, family, happiness.

And I met another uber driver and I LOVE it that his work is not his everything. Its just a way to pay for **** that needs to be paid for. I am completely crazy over him.

I'm also dating a venture capitalist who owns homes in London, San Diego, Austin, and Vancouver that sit empty when he's not in them. He bought his baby-mama a home in a really ritzy neighborhood and pays her 40k/year in child support because he wanted her to feel free to not work if she wanted to stay home with their son. He's insanely ambitious, bright, funny, charming, generous (with his heart and his money), hot and I really like him and respect the hell out of him. But my heart doesn't leap when he calls/texts the way it does over my uber driver. When I'm with him I do kinda adore him, I'm just in awe of what a great person he is, but the heart wants what the heart wants. I don't think his ambition is a turn off for me because he clearly loves what he's doing. He's living for the moment as much as I am. But in general I'd say ambition is not at all appealing to me unless a guy's ambition is to do what makes his heart sing.

BTW, I met venture capitalist guy when he got in my car for an uber ride. He doesn't seem to be at all bothered by my uber-driver-status. I think maybe it's a turn on, not for some creepy reason like he digs being the powerful one, but because I am happy and doing me and doing a damn good job at enjoying my life.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> I am saying that a lot of people RB's age did not go to university so the fact that he doesn't have a university degree is not unusual / remarkable for someone his age and citizenship / origin / whatever.......


Okay, so tons of people his "age" don't have a college education. Tons of people also don't build an empire. MY POINT IS that education level is a moot point. Gawd, I'm going to go pour myself a drink ...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Education gives you more options and makes the odds a bit better in your favor. For some people, it's the journey more than the destination. 

For others, like me for example, it's a great way to avoid the real world .


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

For me , it’s all about who I click with. I really couldn’t care less about what a persons job is. For some, a job is a career filled with passion and ambition. For others, a job is about making a living so they can enjoy the things in life they really enjoy like spending time with family and other simple things in life.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

As far as I know, Bill Gates never graduated from college.

I agree with @Thor that there are different types of intelligence and they may not be correlated with each other. 

It is a poor idea to get a PhD in order to earn more money, but id does open some job options that are otherwise very difficult to get.

College is not for everyone - this is not because the are not "good enough" but because talents / interests vary. I've pointed out that the guy who fixes my airplane is a lot wealthier than I am, despite my degrees and titles. 

That said, I'm not at all unhappy with my schooling and career, its what *I* want, but may not be what anyone else wants.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

john117 said:


> The PhD is useless, but... It gives credibility. Which is what upper management and customers want. The money follows


This has a ring of the Emperors new clothes about it.
All those years spent studying for something that you yourself admit is meaningless.It is probably more a reflection on me than you but I just don’t get it.
However you did say in another thread that those years were the happiest of your marriage so maybe there was an upside.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> This has a ring of the Emperors new clothes about it.
> 
> All those years spent studying for something that you yourself admit is meaningless.It is probably more a reflection on me than you but I just don’t get it.
> 
> However you did say in another thread that those years were the happiest of your marriage so maybe there was an upside.



Studying something that’s not totally relevant can be useful too; it stimulates your brain and you learn a certain thinking process how to connect the dots that you otherwise wouldn’t. Plus you are in a certain environment with other people and learn various social skills. There are benefits that are not immediately obvious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's simply a reflection of the type of work my lab does and my acumen in expanding our role. There simply isn't a college program that teaches even half of what I do. I have lab rats that are specialized EE's or ID's or software engineers, but as the team leader I have to know the stuff myself.

It's also a testament to my ability to learn industrial design and computer programming largely on my own. Our needs change constantly and we don't have the ability to hire lots of people. So we learn quickly.

And a testament to my modesty of course


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Why does the Uber driver have to be male.


He doesn't have to be, but the OP is about a male Uber driver.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

john117 said:


> Education gives you more options and makes the odds a bit better in your favor. For some people, it's the journey more than the destination.
> 
> For others, like me for example, it's a great way to avoid the real world .


But I would have thought in some areas like science, medicine and maybe others, it's critical. It takes basic research before anything can get monetised.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> But I would have thought in some areas like science, medicine and maybe others, it's critical. It takes basic research before anything can get monetised.


Exactly my point. In 2000 when I got my PhD nobody had even heard the term "user experience". In 2007 or 2008 Apple wowed the world with the iPhone (thanks Jonathan Ive). Then companies woke up and realized they need to pour money into basic R&D to understand what drives consumer decisions vis a vis user experience. Which, diabolically, was my research area 🤡.


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

Clockwork said:


> Just wondering here, does this apply to factory workers? Because I do a "manual labour" job too. I would say half of the population does. Most of your grandfathers did too (or fathers depending on how old you are). Studies have shown that 40 years ago men were stronger than they are today with a better grip. Why? Because there were more manual labour jobs. Were they not "worthy" enough or ambitious enough? I do a job at a factory that almost no one else can do day in day out even within my plant. I don't miss a days work either. Here is the thing, if a man works hard every day, then he should be worthy for anyone. There are plenty of lazy men these days, but if you find a hard worker, stick to him.




I’m married and work as a white collar professional, but I have to say that on the whole, I have quite a bit more respect for the work ethic and drive exhibited by blue collar laborers than most of the white collar crowd. 

Plus, I imagine societal norms / views will begin to shift soon if they haven’t already; pushing all students to go to college has created too many degree-holders and a real scarcity of skilled laborers or folks trained to work in the trades.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

veganmermaid said:


> Clockwork said:
> 
> 
> > Just wondering here, does this apply to factory workers? Because I do a "manual labour" job too. I would say half of the population does. Most of your grandfathers did too (or fathers depending on how old you are). Studies have shown that 40 years ago men were stronger than they are today with a better grip. Why? Because there were more manual labour jobs. Were they not "worthy" enough or ambitious enough? I do a job at a factory that almost no one else can do day in day out even within my plant. I don't miss a days work either. Here is the thing, if a man works hard every day, then he should be worthy for anyone. There are plenty of lazy men these days, but if you find a hard worker, stick to him.
> ...


I am working in London at the moment,just for a month. I have a property that I own and I use a housekeeping service. Last Friday I was at the house and the cleaners were there and I got chatting to one of them. 
She told me she qualified as a solicitor (lawyer) two years ago in Scotland and other than internships she hadn’t worked since.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Rather than participate in a thread jack on someone else's dime, that's the question.
> 
> To paraphrase @ReformedHubby, should you date the garbage man at the risk of falling in love? Is the good old fashioned manual laborer relegated to a life as an incel, one day driving his Uber onto the sidewalk and mowing down the women who find his current occupation unworthy, or is there still a place in the world for someone with lesser job aspirations than the corner office?
> 
> I'm a firm believer in the mathematical necessity that half of all people have an IQ below 100. Not everyone is college material. Many who are just aren't interested. What then shall we do with the rest?


Odd thing about IQ. 100 never was the average. It's more like 120.

Until recent generations, college was not a way to get a job. It was a way to broaden your horizons, get exposure to people not of your home town, "become worldly" whatever that means, pursue learning more about something that fires your passions. Some of the most significant learning from college is how to navigate the complex political system (nothing is more political than the administration in a university). One's social life tends to flourish and great experiments can be done in which groups to hang out with. For many, a college town will be their first time living, socializing, eating and flirting with people from foreign countries.

Post-primary education for work is a "trade school". IQ is not needed to learn to be a diesel mechanic, for instance (comes to mind because the learning-disabled child of a neighbor has done just that and is well-paid for maintaining over-the-road trucks).

So, who to date?

In dating, as with everything else in the cosmos, it's all about percentages. Let's say a person isn't interested in dating people who collect trash for a living. BLS statistics show that in the USA, there are 116,000 people who do that job. Out of 140 million working adults in the USA, that's less than 1 in 1000. So, if she decides "no garbagemen", a woman is not restricting her dating prospects much.

OTOH, I don't think of Uber drivers as low class. You have to own a fairly recent model vehicle to drive for Uber, so such a person obviously has some financial stuff going on. The Uber drivers I've spoken to while in the back seats of their vehicles were articulate, knowledgeable about local events and highlights of the local area, enjoyable to converse with and overall, people I'd gladly spend more time with. One of the guitarists I play with from time to time drives and airport limousine. His passengers have included rock stars, sports figures, actors and actresses, politicians, business leaders and so on. He has learned and assimilated a lot from conversing with those people and has excellent ideas in promoting the business needs of the various bands he's in.

If you work a service job where you interact with the public, especially the traveling public, you can become a very fascinating person. So, if you're an Uber driver - use that as your university!

Generally, my experience has been that people don't care so much about what you do for a living, but whether or not you have learned from it and used it as a way to build better character.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

College / university was a training ground for the "professions." ie, accountant, lawyer, doctor, dentist ...... those professions which required government certification in order to "practice." and well, why not,.... don't we want these professionals to jump through some hurdles before they cut us open, manage our money and navigate our way through the laws........

For most everything else, people learned on the job. Now businesses don't have to pay that cost anymore. the expectation is that they can hire someone who already knows what they need. so the business costs have shifted from the corporation to the individual.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Herschel said:


> First, not half the population has an IQ under 100. That’s not how data distribution works. 15 points of IQ is one standard deviation from 100, and that covers roughly 2/3rds of people. Sure, there is a significant difference between 115 and 85, but most people have average IQs. That may not mean much, but while 99 or 97 is technically below average, it is statistically insignificant.


This is exactly how it works. IQ is a normalized, Gaussian, non-skewed (to my knowledge) distribution. By definition, half of the distribution is below the mean/median (which are the same number), and since it's normalized, that number is 100. 

Sure, you can define everyone within +/-1 standard deviation to be "normal", but half of them are STILL below 100.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So it seems the general consensus, with a few exceptions, is that it's fine to date an Uber driver as long as that isn't the sum of his or her ambition. Uber driver might have been a bad choice, since it actually is used by many to fill gap between other things in their life. Maybe the "sanitation engineer" would have been a better choice - someone who is perfectly content to keep doing that and nothing more with his life. 

My daughter dated a musician. Did I like it? I certainly has misgivings about her ability to settle down, have a family, and maintain a normal relationship with a man who didn't know where his next paycheck was coming from, or even if there was going to be a next pay check, but an Uber driver presumably has as steady an income as she desires, up to the limits of the platform. 

I understand the arguments, I have some of the same prejudices, and I'm not sure how I feel about that just yet.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> You once were kind enough to send me some information on what type of work you do and what you actually have a PhD in after I asked you how being a psychologist correlated with working in the electronics industry.


I graduated in 1989 from a state school with a B.S.E.E. I stopped at the B.S. because going further was absolutely pointless. No employer was asking for a Masters or higher. No job was closed to me for lack of a higher degree or Ivy League diploma. 

My brother on the other hand is a research Psychologist. Nothing short of a Ph.D. would suffice to get him a tenured teaching position anywhere in the states. 

So tailor your education to your needs, and don't feel bad for not climbing all the way to the top of a non-existent ladder.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> If someone is physically attractive, they'll find someone no matter what they do. Even full-time drug dealers most often have little problem attracting women. Men are no better in this regard.


I'm going to disagree gently on this one. I know two women...one is an ex from 25 years ago...who are easily 8/10. Both are phyically very fit, trim, smile a lot. But both seem completely incapable of actually hearing what someone else says. Example: The 63 year old, when someone says "I'm not sure if what I do for a living really is meaningful", will typically reply "I know what you mean, it seems no matter what I do, they don't want to pay enough. Damned cheapskates." The topic wasn't about how much you get paid, but that's all she can see about a job. The other one fears everything in life, and upon conversaiton, someone will say "what do you like to do?" and she'll say "just this, what we are doing, conversing". No, she won't go out to eat, there might be food poisoning and no, she won't go out with you. Both have experienced years and years where men will have coffee with them and never follow up with a phone call. So, these two visually attractive women, in 30 years for one, and 10 years for the other, have not "found" anybody...and they both try, online and in real life.

Both, incidently, have reasonablye well-respected careers in mid-level management. One in the financial world, the other in technology.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

IQ varies by country. In the USA, the average IQ is about 98.
https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

john117 said:


> The probability that this type of education vs income can be replicated is in par with being drafted in the NBA directly from middle school...





Andy1001 said:


> You once were kind enough to send me some information on what type of work you do and what you actually have a PhD in after I asked you how being a psychologist correlated with working in the electronics industry.
> Can you honestly tell me that the PhD made any difference to your expertise in the workplace you find yourself or would a masters have sufficed.
> We can argue this over and back John but most of these certifications may as well be wallpaper for all the end use they are put to.
> I ran installations for a few years all over Europe and for the electrical supply I would use a local contractor and he could connect,test and commission the electrical end of things.Then the rules changed and you had to have a degree to test anything.We then had the ridiculous situation of electricians with years of experience not being able to request a supply for the installation and some newly qualified guy could.
> ...


I wholeheartedly agree with both of you.

Like Andy, I believe that we've gotten way too carried away with certifications and formal educational much to the detriment of everyone's not involved in higher education. 

It isn't the higher education or credentials that really matter, it's the fact that people were sharp enough to be accepted into the programs. This provides a handy shortcut for those doing the hiring and promoting (don't get me started on the evil spawn that is HR).

When my son pointed out all the massively successful people who dropped out of Harvard (as he was considering dropping out of Columbia) I had to point out that no one reported on those who dropped out of college only to become crack *****s.

So, John's right as well.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Rather than participate in a thread jack on someone else's dime, that's the question.
> 
> To paraphrase @ReformedHubby, should you date the garbage man at the risk of falling in love? Is the good old fashioned manual laborer relegated to a life as an incel, one day driving his Uber onto the sidewalk and mowing down the women who find his current occupation unworthy, or is there still a place in the world for someone with lesser job aspirations than the corner office?
> 
> I'm a firm believer in the mathematical necessity that half of all people have an IQ below 100. Not everyone is college material. Many who are just aren't interested. What then shall we do with the rest?


I'm pretty sure that you didn't intend to start a discussion about the importance of IQ or credential-ism. 

I suspect that the discussion you were trying to start involved what happens when women aren't interested in marrying (or long term partnering) with a large subset of men (or do not see the point in doing so).

That's a VERY interesting conversation.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I'm pretty sure that you didn't intend to start a discussion about the importance of IQ or credential-ism.
> 
> I suspect that the discussion you were trying to start involved what happens when women aren't interested in marrying (or long term partnering) with a large subset of men (or do not see the point in doing so).
> 
> That's a VERY interesting conversation.


True enough, especially when the subset of men are all owners of the latest terrorist device of choice.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

veganmermaid said:


> pushing all students to go to college has created too many degree-holders and a real scarcity of skilled laborers or folks trained to work in the trades.


Mike Rowe of "Dirty Jobs" was one of the first to push this.

It seems that almost everybody's starting to say the same thing.

Everybody, that is, except the elites and mainstream media. 

I can see why elites overvalue education (after all, it's what makes them "elite").

And I guess it's further evidence that the media sees themselves the same way.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

zookeeper said:


> He doesn't have to be, but the OP is about a male Uber driver.





Cletus said:


> My daughter dated a musician. Did I like it? I certainly has misgivings about her ability to settle down, have a family, and maintain a normal relationship with a man who didn't know where his next paycheck was coming from, or even if there was going to be a next pay check.


Well, let's be honest - men are often judged / their worth is often tied to their financial status / employment status.

Women are often judged for their looks.

Dating someone new? A women's friends are more likely to ask "what does he do?!"

A man's friends are more likely to ask "what does she look like?!"

We don't often advise women to go out there and establish a great career to increase their dating potential. But this is often good advice to give a man if he is struggling with the opposite sex.

While "I don't need a man" to take care of me financially (I earn about twice as much as my husband), I admit, I would feel a twinge of embarrassment bringing an "Uber driver" home to meet the folks. I am sure my father would be disappointed.

Blue collar jobs? Works with his hands AND his mind? Good. Has the intelligence and fortitude to use his abilities to work his way up? Wonderful.

After all, that is what my father did. Started as manual labor on a factory floor, and eventually was designing industrial machinery and managing a large factory.

Didn't take an expensive education, he was blessed with an exceptional mind, and parents who installed a good work ethic. 

If there isn't any opportunity for upward mobility, or if a guy does not have the inate ability to seize those opportunities, I can't say I would be interested.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> Mike Rowe of "Dirty Jobs" was one of the first to push this.
> 
> It seems that almost everybody's starting to say the same thing.
> 
> ...


Education doesn't need to be formal. But it needs to be there. Germany and their apprenticeship programs are far better than our barista majors graduating from college...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

I shouldnthave said:


> Women are often judged for their looks.
> 
> Dating someone new? A women's friends are more likely to ask "what does he do?!"
> 
> A man's friends are more likely to ask "what does she look like?!"


That's so old school.

Men and women are exactly the same now.

Everyone is judged for their looks


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Cletus said:


> This is exactly how it works. IQ is a normalized, Gaussian, non-skewed (to my knowledge) distribution. By definition, half of the distribution is below the mean/median (which are the same number), and since it's normalized, that number is 100.
> 
> Sure, you can define everyone within +/-1 standard deviation to be "normal", but half of them are STILL below 100.


A non-insignificant percentage is at exactly 100. Even more are within error range. But whatever


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

DustyDog said:


> I'm going to disagree gently on this one.


Ok, as long as you're gentle...


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