# abusive behaviour



## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

I think I need to divorce my husband, but I'm not 100 % sure. He gets very bad anger attacks where he swears a lot, walks off. He had a tendency to break up with me in these anger fits, before we were married. Since we married, a two years ago, he threatens divorce regularly in our fights. He also had a history of either moving out or kicking me out of the house. Most of these previous fights we would somehow manage to contain and reconcile. 

Our last fight, on Thursday got completely out of hand. It started with a fleeting irritation on my side about something and I flipped and used some swear words. I immediately apologized for swearing at him, I walked over, said sorry and gave him a kiss. But he was angry and wouldn't let go. He started calling me a ****ing *****. Then he suddenly lunged forward and poured his beer on my head, knocking the bottle against my head. I was in shock and walked away crying, not saying anything. I was very angry and hurt and didn't speak to him for a day. Then it escalated again. I wanted the car keys because I wanted to go running in the park with the dogs. He said he wouldn't give them to me and that I had to leave the room (we were sleeping in separate bedrooms) He started pushing me. i moved back into the room and demanded the keys. he then grabbed me and flung me on the bed. I saw the key on the bed and I quickly took it. He then started grabbing me and trying to get the key out of my hand, he twisted my hand so baldy that the keyholder cut into my hand and I started bleeding, dripping some blood on my pants. he kept grabbing me forcefully, trying to get the keys from my hand. I was crying uncontrollably. At one point he called me a ***** and spat in my face. 

I got so upset that I ran out into the street, crying and confused. When I returned I decided that I should return the key or this could become dangerous. I returned the key, but he was still angry. He was throwing my things in the hall, he threw my bike against the door and other stuff. he was telling me that I had to leave now, book myself into a hotel. That this was his house. The papers are all in his name, for a technical/legal reason. We signed an anti-nuptial that basically gives me no rights to anything that belongs to him. He mentions all of this and says that the car (same story, it is not in my name) and the house are his and that I have no rights and I have to leave. 

I was no angel in all of this, I said some horrible hurtful things, I shouted and swore at him. But I didn't use physical violence, I didn't spit, I throw liquid at him or kick him out of the house. 

He has now gone camping in the mountains to cool off. I am at the house, but have arranged to stay with friends from the day he comes back. 

The problem I'm facing right now is that I rationally know that I need to leave him. But the problem is that I still love him. I don't know where to turn to to find the strength. I'm frightened, to be single again at my age. To face the humiliation, we got married 2 years ago, but the wedding party was only 6 months ago. Friends from all over the world flew in for the party. it really was the happiest day of my life. I feel mortified by the thought of having failed at marriage so soon. 

Is there any chance a couple can bounce back from this kind of abusive behaviour? I know rationally, that the answer is no, but my heart is just bleeding and broken and I just wish we could make each other happy. When we're not fighting, we're a good match. I have, strangely, also felt very happy in this relationship. 

I basically don't know what to do. Any advice is welcome. 

A broken heart


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

womble said:


> I think I need to divorce my husband, but I'm not 100 % sure. He gets very bad anger attacks where he swears a lot, walks off. He had a tendency to break up with me in these anger fits, before we were married. Since we married, a two years ago, he threatens divorce regularly in our fights. He also had a history of either moving out or kicking me out of the house. Most of these previous fights we would somehow manage to contain and reconcile.
> 
> Our last fight, on Thursday got completely out of hand. It started with a fleeting irritation on my side about something and I flipped and used some swear words. I immediately apologized for swearing at him, I walked over, said sorry and gave him a kiss. But he was angry and wouldn't let go. He started calling me a ****ing *****. Then he suddenly lunged forward and poured his beer on my head, knocking the bottle against my head. I was in shock and walked away crying, not saying anything. I was very angry and hurt and didn't speak to him for a day. Then it escalated again. I wanted the car keys because I wanted to go running in the park with the dogs. He said he wouldn't give them to me and that I had to leave the room (we were sleeping in separate bedrooms) He started pushing me. i moved back into the room and demanded the keys. he then grabbed me and flung me on the bed. I saw the key on the bed and I quickly took it. He then started grabbing me and trying to get the key out of my hand, he twisted my hand so baldy that the keyholder cut into my hand and I started bleeding, dripping some blood on my pants. he kept grabbing me forcefully, trying to get the keys from my hand. I was crying uncontrollably. At one point he called me a ***** and spat in my face.
> 
> ...


If he touches you violently again call the cops.This behaviour is escalating and will end up with you dead or badly hurt and him in prison.While he is away move your stuff out,see a lawyer and find out what you are legally entitled to,The pre nuptial agreement needs to be watertight to be of any use to him and depending on where you live it may not be enforceable.
Do not stay with a man who is willing to use physical force,spit in your facecut you and pour beer over you.This man doesn't love you he is a violent thug and he will hurt you badly eventually.


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## Radch1988 (Jun 3, 2017)

This is an easy one. 

Get a lawyer and get the f**k out of this relationship. 

Once a man lays a hand on a woman he is no longer a man. 

No one will think you failed at marriage. In fact you will gain more support and respect by dumping this lowlife for how he has treated you and putting yourself first. You will find love again...and you will be even more happy than what you could have ever imagined. 

Absolutely no one should have to deal with this. It will only get worse. End it. Now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

Thanks, you're right obviously. The problem is that I still love him. It's very hard to turn that off....But there aren't many options left, we have tried couples counseling already....


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## ASmileForTheWorld (Jun 14, 2017)

Whilst I agree with the sentiments of the other posts in this thread, I would just add that any violence in any relationship is unacceptable, it doesn't have to be a man being physically abusive to a woman.

This sounds like it's escalating quickly and so needs to be dealt with quickly. You cannot be in the same house as him just now as he has broken that physical boundary and it will now just happen again and again until something more serious happens! If you truly love him you need a professional mediator and to convince him he needs to seek help over his anger and abuse issues before you'll step back in that house. Never put yourself in a one to one situation with him if he can flick on the violence as easily as that!

Has he never been violent or controlling at all in the past?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

womble said:


> Thanks, you're right obviously. The problem is that I still love him. It's very hard to turn that off....But there aren't many options left, we have tried couples counseling already....


Takes the average woman 7 times being abused before leaving a relationship.
What number are you on?

Gtfo


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

chillymorn69 said:


> Takes the average woman 7 times being abused before leaving a relationship.
> What number are you on?
> 
> Gtfo


I'm on number one.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

womble said:


> I'm on number one.


If you stay until number two the chances are you won't be alive for number three.
Most abusers start of slowly,a push or a shove that you aren't even sure whether he meant it or not.It normally takes a few episodes before an actual slap or punch occurs.This "man" and I use the term loosely because any man who strikes a woman is not a man in my opinion,is escalating at a frightening rate and you need to get out NOW!
If you love him as you say then get him to take a course in anger management,then individual counselling for both of you.


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

He has never been physical before,had never spat in my face before or drawn blood, but he would get these anger fits that could rage for days. Like I said before, I am no angel, I'm also quite quick tempered and can be aggressive at times and I'm very verbal, have a quick tongue. But he has this tendency to threaten divorce (or breaking up before we married), which I felt was very traumatizing and I repeatedly asked him to 'just' fight with me, without breaking up or telling me he wants a divorce. But he didnt change that habit, it happens every fight. He also has a tendency to tell me that I need to move out and I feel he is using his legal advantage against me, which I think is also highly immoral. I felt that these actions were in a sense also violent, because it meant he took away my sense of home, belonging, which I feel all the more because I am a foreigner in this country and have no family or safety net to fall back on. 

From the email correspondence we have been having, I realise he will never change, He is adamant that I am to blame as well. And he is correct that I am to blame for verbal abuse, but he doesn't want to acknowledge that he was the only one who used physical violence, not me. He has said that I deserved to be spat on and beer thrown on me because I was being so verbally abusive. I think that is a very worrying thing to say, because I think there is never an excuse to do these things... 

So I need to get out, but I also feel my whole life will fall apart. I had invested so much in this relationship, we traveled together, bought a house together, got married. It was a fairytale and I felt genuinely happy, content. I married at a late age and never thought this would happen (I also never really aspired to get married, but it was still a really lovely and sweet surprise that we fell in love and wanted to share our lives together). I have had a string of unsuccessful relationships and had given up on men. We really clicked, were friends for a year first. He is seemingly very gentle and laid back. 

What worries me is that the relationship I had before him was also violent. And my ex did similar things: he spat in my face, threw me out of the house, drew blood on several occasions, he would throw my stuff around etc etc. This last fight with my husband therefore feels like a horrible deja vu, a nightmare which I thought I had escaped and now here it is right in the middle of my life again. It's making me doubt myself, maybe I bring this out in men? Maybe I am to blame? Meeting my husband and marrying him for me symbolised that I had found happiness after a very humiliating and traumatic relationship. It was proof that sometimes all does end well. And now this. It is a huge reality check and I'm feeling very confused.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

womble said:


> He has never been physical before,had never spat in my face before or drawn blood, but he would get these anger fits that could rage for days. Like I said before, I am no angel, I'm also quite quick tempered and can be aggressive at times and I'm very verbal, have a quick tongue. But he has this tendency to threaten divorce (or breaking up before we married), which I felt was very traumatizing and I repeatedly asked him to 'just' fight with me, without breaking up or telling me he wants a divorce. But he didnt change that habit, it happens every fight. He also has a tendency to tell me that I need to move out and I feel he is using his legal advantage against me, which I think is also highly immoral. I felt that these actions were in a sense also violent, because it meant he took away my sense of home, belonging, which I feel all the more because I am a foreigner in this country and have no family or safety net to fall back on.
> 
> From the email correspondence we have been having, I realise he will never change, He is adamant that I am to blame as well. And he is correct that I am to blame for verbal abuse, but he doesn't want to acknowledge that he was the only one who used physical violence, not me. He has said that I deserved to be spat on and beer thrown on me because I was being so verbally abusive. I think that is a very worrying thing to say, because I think there is never an excuse to do these things...
> 
> ...


He recognised a victim when he saw one and he played you.Why is the house in his name only,if both of you bought it,was this at his suggestion.You need to see a lawyer as soon as possible and try and gather any paperwork that shows that you spent your money on the house.
You also need to figure out why you are picking these violent losers as partners.
That's on you,not him.


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## Radch1988 (Jun 3, 2017)

You're never, ever to blame for the violent behaviour of your partner. 

Now you maybe need to be more selective next time in order to find a genuine good guy. But that's for later. 

For now, get out love, you might think you still love him but he does not love you and he most certainly does not respect you in any way, shape or form. Easier said than done but you will never look back - I promise you that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> He recognised a victim when he saw one and he played you.Why is the house in his name only,if both of you bought it,was this at his suggestion.You need to see a lawyer as soon as possible and try and gather any paperwork that shows that you spent your money on the house.
> You also need to figure out why you are picking these violent losers as partners.
> That's on you,not him.


It's because I am a foreigner, which would basically negatively affect the mortgage. He applied on his own and got a 100 % mortgage (would have been 50 % if my name was on there as well.) We only moved in 3 months ago and I do not want to end up in a legal battle. I think I'm just going to walk away from this all. Cut my losses. I paid a cash instalment on the car, from my savings and he has already indicated that he will repay me that amount. That's all I want. I'm moving out in 2 days. I actually think he can't afford the house on his own, as he doesn't earn much at the moment. If he is serious about therapy, anger management etc. I might give him another chance. But I basically think this is over. 

Your last question is on point, I do need to figure out why this has happened twice. I'm still in shock about that. I never thought he was an abuser. No one did, my family and friends loved him and he is generally known as a gentle sweet, quirky and laid back dude. Our wedding party is still so recent, it feels like yesterday that we walked down the aisle, that we held hands and said yes. That we danced with all our friends to the band and had the best day and night of our lives. How quickly it can all turn dark and threatening.....


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

womble said:


> It's because I am a foreigner, which would basically negatively affect the mortgage. He applied on his own and got a 100 % mortgage (would have been 50 % if my name was on there as well.) We only moved in 3 months ago and I do not want to end up in a legal battle. I think I'm just going to walk away from this all. Cut my losses. I paid a cash instalment on the car, from my savings and he has already indicated that he will repay me that amount. That's all I want. I'm moving out in 2 days. I actually think he can't afford the house on his own, as he doesn't earn much at the moment. If he is serious about therapy, anger management etc. I might give him another chance. But I basically think this is over.
> 
> Your last question is on point, I do need to figure out why this has happened twice. I'm still in shock about that. I never thought he was an abuser. No one did, my family and friends loved him and he is generally known as a gentle sweet, quirky and laid back dude. Our wedding party is still so recent, it feels like yesterday that we walked down the aisle, that we held hands and said yes. That we danced with all our friends to the band and had the best day and night of our lives. How quickly it can all turn dark and threatening.....


A friend of mine is a Martial arts instructor and she also teaches self defence classes for women.(There is a difference). Almost every woman in her classes has been physically abused by their husbands or boyfriends and none of them suspected anything until the first blow was struck. A lot of the women say the same thing that you have said,that this was not the first relationship that they had been abused in.Ally(my friend) teaches them just enough to be able to get away from an attacker,she keeps driving home the point that they need to get out of the situation and then call the cops.
For any women reading if a guy attacks you, go for his eyes or his balls,if he attacks from behind lean forward and throw your head back as hard as you can and head butt him or else scrape your heel down his shin.
Then run!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

What makes you love him? How is he a wonderful person who deserves your love?

Its always difficult to get a picture of what happened from just a few words on a page but from what your wrote he seems abusive, and that abuse is not moving toward physical violence. If so, then you absolutely need to leave before it gets even worse.

Am I missing something or is he a violent abuser?




womble said:


> Thanks, you're right obviously. The problem is that I still love him. It's very hard to turn that off....But there aren't many options left, we have tried couples counseling already....


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Before reading any of the other comments, I will give my 2 cents.

There is no love on his side of things. If you truly love someone, you don't make them bleed, you don't pour anything overtop their heads, and hit them in the head. You don't pick them up and throw them. He is showing you who he really is. Believe him. If I were you, I would probably grab my things, grab the dog(s), and head for the hills as fast as possible.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

womble said:


> I'm on number one.


Naw the number is higher. You need to stop separating them into different acts. Hands on is the most obvious. Verbal can be just as bad, if not worse, than physical. There is a level of mental breaking which is different than physical.

Yes, these were all clues:


> He gets very bad anger attacks where he swears a lot, walks off. He had a tendency to break up with me in these anger fits, before we were married. Since we married, a two years ago, he threatens divorce regularly in our fights. He also had a history of either moving out or kicking me out of the house.


 No, don't feel bad. As you can see many others see it in a similar fashion. This is all a form of abuse. He actually showed you his true colors before you were married. 


Argghhh Andy almost made me derail the thread.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree with everyone else. He is a violent man and you need to divorce him. Never, ever stay with a violent man. He will escalate and this will get worse.

About the house, what percentage of the down payment did you pay?

In those emails, he admits to things like throwing beer on you and spitting on you. Does he admit to pushing you, throwing you around, etc?

Keep those emails (or are the texts?). They are solid evidence of his violence. You probably should report the domestic violence and have him prosecuted.

How bad is the cut on your hand? Do you think it might need stiches?

Here is something that you need to contemplate. I don't think you love him, not who he really is. I think you love the man you thought he was or the man that you though he could be. Surely you do not love the man you saw who poured beer over your head, hit you with the bottle, beat you up over keys and drew your blood. Do you really love the man who tries to throw you out of the house? I don't think so. And that is the man that he is. A person is only as good as the worst thing that they do. He is that violent person. He really is not the person that you love. You love the imagined person in your mind.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Womble, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling actions, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your H necessarily has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit strong traits of it or another PD.



womble said:


> He poured his beer on my head, knocking the bottle against my head.... He started pushing me... grabbed me and flung me on the bed.... twisted my hand so badly that the keyholder cut into my hand... and spat in my face.


_"__Intense, inappropriate anger__"_ is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. If your H is a BPDer (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

For these reasons, the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at *50% of Batterers are BPDers*. Similarly, a *2008 study* and a *2012 study* find a strong association between violence and BPD. 



> He had a tendency to break up with me in these anger fits, before we were married. Since we married, a two years ago, he threatens divorce regularly in our fights. He also had a history of either moving out or kicking me out of the house.


The repeating cycle you describe -- i.e., that of push-you-away and pull-you-back -- is a hallmark of BPDer relationships. They therefore are notorious for having multiple breakups followed by makeups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll. 



> I rationally know that I need to leave him. But the problem is that I still love him.


BPDers generally are good people who are very easy to love. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct. 



> He is generally known as a gentle sweet, quirky and laid back dude.


A BPDer's problem is not being _bad or unlovable_ but, rather, being _unstable_. Like a young child, a BPDer lacks the emotional skills needed to regulate his own emotions. A BPDer therefore will exhibit the unadulterated warmth, emotional intensity, and purity of expressions that otherwise are only seen in young children. The result is that -- despite the temper tantrums and abuse -- walking away from a BPDer is very painful. It can feel like you're abandoning a sick young child. 



> We have tried couples counseling already....


If your H is a BPDer, my experience is that couples counseling likely will be a total waste of time. A BPDer's lack of basic emotional skills go far beyond the simple communication skills that MCs are good at teaching. Moreover, until a BPDer acquires those missing emotional skills, teaching him communication skills may worsen the situation by making him better at manipulating you.



> I am no angel, I'm also quite quick tempered and can be aggressive at times and I'm very verbal, have a quick tongue.


None of us are angels. We all exhibit BPD behaviors to some degree. BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot -- especially after you've been married for two years -- because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, irrational anger, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.



> Is there any chance a couple can bounce back from this kind of abusive behaviour?


Yes, if your H is a high functioning BPDer, there is a chance. But it very small. Although most major cities offer excellent treatment programs, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to seek therapy and then work hard in it (for several years at least) to learn how to manage their own emotions. My guess is that less than 1% of HF BPDers have sufficient self awareness and ego strength to remain in therapy long enough to make a real difference.

Hence, if you are still reluctant to divorce him, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I would also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Womble.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think a lot of people fall into this trap: loving what they want their partner to be, not what their partner is. 
Then, loving them, you fool yourself into excusing every terrible thing that they do. 



EleGirl said:


> sniop
> Here is something that you need to contemplate. I don't think you love him, not who he really is. I think you love the man you thought he was or the man that you though he could be.
> snip


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

uhtred said:


> I think a lot of people fall into this trap: loving what they want their partner to be, not what their partner is.
> 
> Then, loving them, you fool yourself into excusing every terrible thing that they do.




Right on!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

Thanks Uptown, you've given me such a valuable response. All the stats and studies also work for me (I have that kind of brain, if there is science to back things up, I pay attention ;-)). I feel a lot of people here on this forum provide the obvious response: get the hell out. Of course that is the way forward. But it is such a difficult thing to do, as I do see his pain (he's from a broken home: his mother is a total psycho who didn't come to our wedding and he has only reconnected with his father two years ago, he was absent most of his life. He was raised by his grandmother, who is really strong and sweet and she is why, I think, he is not totally deranged), I do still love him and I also married him, which is a firm commitment. I am not condoning his behaviour, but I'm trying to say that it is just very complex. 

I'm pretty sure we will never work, he just showed me a dried up cut on his hand which he only discovered now. he is claiming that this is what I did to him during the fight, in other words, that I am also violent and drew blood, which is a total lie and if it weren't then why is he only noticing it 3 days after the fight? It's pathetic and I won't stand for it. 

The BPD 'diagnosis' (for lack of a better description) is interesting and rings true. I am going to find a psychologist for me alone to figure things out. I have told him we are over if he doesn't seek therapy. But your point on 'sufficient self awareness and ego strength' made my heart sink: that is exactly what he is lacking. And that is why he keeps trying to blame me, the latest being this cut on his hand. He even at one point said I deserved the spitting and throwing beer because I am verbally abusive (which might well be true, I do get very angry and my tongue is very sharp, but obviously that is NEVER an excuse for physical violence). 

I have decided to stay in the house. Initially I arranged to stay at a friends, but I feel I need to stand my ground: this is my house too. I am a foreigner in this country and have no safety net. I cannot and will not be kicked out of a house that is mine. I'm not sure what the next steps will be. I think I might go back home to my family to rethink everything. When I announced this to him, he immediately responded by saying that this is then our official separation. 

The overriding problem remains that I love him. he has many good sides and we have had a lot of really good times, travels, friends. I actually thought that I had found peace: that I was with a man who cared about me deeply and that we would be together and have each other's back till death do us part..... wrapping my head around the fact that that dream is shattered will take time. I can't turn off my feelings for him. Yet.


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

Hi there Elegirl, no the cut on my hand is minor: maybe half an inch? His physical abuse didnt lead to the jaw breaking, blood gushing kind of injuries: but it nevertheless crossed a line. He also didn't beat me: he grabbed, shoved and pushed me. I have no bruises, I just have a small cut on my hand and a lot of sadness and hurt. 

I don't love this side of him, obviously. But it is just really hard to let go of a man you said 'yes' to only 6 months ago, in front of all our family and friends. I thought we were going to have a family, live and stay together, be there for each other until the end. I considered him my best friend. I wanted to love and take care of him for the rest of my life. That is what I signed up for. And now it has all crumbled and I need to make a plan.... it's all rather overwhelming.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I am sorry that you have suffered that abuse from him, which will only ever escalate, make no doubt. He may not be injuring you very bad right now, but he enjoys destroying your things which is just an indirect way of hurting you. It will take very little for that violence to turn on you. 

This is not going to net me points on this board, but I think you are not blameless in this. Why do you allow yourself to yell, scream, and curse at him? That would never be OK in any relationship. Yes, his behavior is physically worse, but looking at your behavior for a moment, verbal abuse is a real thing and it will follow you in other relationships if you do not address it. Whether this was an existing problem or his behavior escalates your own, you have a responsibility to not let it consume you, especially when you know that this man is fueled by anger... It's like dumping gas on an open flame. 

Get away from this man. I don't care if you love him. It's possible to love someone and they are still completely wrong for you. He is violent, abusive verbally and physically, and there are plenty of men out there who are NOT like that. He needs more professional help than you are capable of and based on what you wrote, I somehow doubt he will agree to see anyone. 

You are scared what others may think because you are recently married, but it doesn't matter what they think. If your daughter or son was in your exact relationship, in your shoes, and they came to you in honesty, would you tell them to go home and suck it up because other people who don't matter will be mad? H3ll no, you'd tell them to gtfo of there! 

And lastly, you are afraid that you are too old to find love again. Hun, how old are you? I have news for you. My widowed, 63 year old mother found a man just a few years older than her and she is HAPPY. The reason she is happy was because she decided to address her needs after being alone for 12 years, felt READY for a new relationship, and she started dating again. Anything is possible. Finding love again is possible. But you have to work for it and you have to want it. Don't let fear determine your future. Don't let it keep your feet in cement.


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

Satya said:


> I am sorry that you have suffered that abuse from him, which will only ever escalate, make no doubt. He may not be injuring you very bad right now, but he enjoys destroying your things which is just an indirect way of hurting you. It will take very little for that violence to turn on you.
> 
> This is not going to net me points on this board, but I think you are not blameless in this. Why do you allow yourself to yell, scream, and curse at him? That would never be OK in any relationship. Yes, his behavior is physically worse, but looking at your behavior for a moment, verbal abuse is a real thing and it will follow you in other relationships if you do not address it. Whether this was an existing problem or his behavior escalates your own, you have a responsibility to not let it consume you, especially when you know that this man is fueled by anger... It's like dumping gas on an open flame.
> 
> ...


Hi Satya,

You're absolutely right: I am also to blame and I have found myself in an exact same situation again so I must face the question: what is my own role in all of this? I do have a temper and I do lash out and I probably ignite his rage fits. I am really no angel. But I have never ever liften a hand against anyone I was with, never spat on a fellow human being ever, never threw beer on anyone. Never used physical violence. 

Everything else you write is true, I do not need to feel ashamed, I know, but I do. I shouldn't be afraid of being alone again, I know, but I am. 

I guess time will also help. I have too many things now to consider (leaving him, leaving this country, where to go, new job, etc etc) so I just need to take it step by step.... 

Thanks for the advice


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

womble said:


> Hi Satya,
> 
> You're absolutely right: I am also to blame and I have found myself in an exact same situation again so I must face the question: what is my own role in all of this? I do have a temper and I do lash out and I probably ignite his rage fits. I am really no angel. But I have never ever liften a hand against anyone I was with, never spat on a fellow human being ever, never threw beer on anyone. Never used physical violence.
> 
> ...


I know this is hard. It is hard to leave an abuser. There is a ton of literature out there if you Google it. 

"Why Does He Do That?" is a very good book you should read. My ex H was an emotionally abusive man... No rage fits or yelling, but his words alone could cut me down to nothing. That book explains so much, I recommend you get it immediately. It's on Kindle.

It feels overwhelming now, but in time, with progress in mind, you will do and feel better. When you really remove yourself from a toxic environment and for a time live in a healthier one, only then can you truly see how bad the first was for you.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

womble said:


> I am going to find a psychologist for me alone to figure things out. I have told him we are over if he doesn't seek therapy.


Likewise, I insisted that my exW seek therapy in order for us to remain married. She saw six different psychologists (and 3 MCs) in weekly visits for 15 years -- at enormous expense to me and my insurance company. It did not make a dent in her behavior -- not one dent. Based on that experience, I will describe several difficulties you likely will encounter when going down that road.

First, be aware that your H's therapist is not your friend. Relying on his _therapist_ for candid advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on his _attorney_ for candid advice during the divorce. I therefore applaud your decision to find your own psychologist, one who will not be treating or even seeing your H. That way, you are ensured that the psychologist is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not those of your H.

Second, even if your H exhibits full-blown BPD, it is unlikely that his therapist will tell him or his insurance company, much less tell you. If you're interested, I discuss the reasons why therapists generally withhold the diagnosis name from high functioning BPDers at Loath to Diagnose. 

Third, because it takes years for high functioning BPDers to acquire the missing emotional skills, it is extremely hard for the spouse to determine whether any real progress is being made. Think about it. How would you know? Like the smokers who are throwing away their "last pack" every two months, BPDers typically make dramatic improvements every 6 to 8 weeks. That's how emotionally unstable people behave. Even a roller coaster makes dramatic gains half the time.

Fourth, HF BPDers who are forced into therapy (at the insistent of their spouses) typically will only play mind games with the therapists. Therapy only works if the BPDer is strongly self motivated to pursue it. Because BPD traits are easy to hide during a 50 minute weekly meeting, it can take a therapist years to see the symptoms you see all week long. When that happens, the BPDer likely will switch to another therapist. As I noted, my exW went to six different psychologists.



> But your point on 'sufficient self awareness and ego strength' made my heart sink: that is exactly what he is lacking. And that is why he keeps trying to blame me, the latest being this cut on his hand.


By its very nature, BPD behavior usually is invisible to the person suffering from it. This is why BPD behavior (like that of other PDs) is said to be "egosyntonic," i.e., is in such complete harmony with the needs of the ego that it is perceived by the BPDer as perfectly natural and desirable.

Much of this "harmony" is maintained by the BPDer's subconscious, which works 24/7 protecting his fragile ego by preventing it from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting nearly all hurtful thoughts and feelings onto YOU. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, the BPDer usually is convinced that the thoughts and feelings are originating with you.



> The BPD 'diagnosis' (for lack of a better description) is interesting and rings true.


The proper term is "spotting BPD symptoms," i.e., spotting BPD warning signs. BPD symptoms only describe a pattern of behavior. They tell you little or nothing about the disorder causing that behavior. Strictly speaking, nobody on the planet can do a true diagnosis of the disorder itself. This is why psychologists cannot cure the underlying disorder. They cannot cure what they cannot identify. Instead, they help people by treating the symptoms, not the disorder itself.


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## JiltedH (Jun 13, 2017)

Just a question, not sure if it applies, did your actions/words feed his anger?

My wife would feed off my anger early on in our relationship. She'd try to make me angrier. We have an agreement now to avoid agitating when either is angry, and talk rationally later.

Maybe it's me, but your post struck me as goading the guy. 

You safety comes first, I only ask as you wanted to know whether your relationship could be be saved.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

womble said:


> Hi there Elegirl, no the cut on my hand is minor: maybe half an inch? His physical abuse didnt lead to the jaw breaking, blood gushing kind of injuries: but it nevertheless crossed a line. He also didn't beat me: he grabbed, shoved and pushed me. I have no bruises, I just have a small cut on my hand and a lot of sadness and hurt.
> 
> I don't love this side of him, obviously. But it is just really hard to let go of a man you said 'yes' to only 6 months ago, in front of all our family and friends. I thought we were going to have a family, live and stay together, be there for each other until the end. I considered him my best friend. I wanted to love and take care of him for the rest of my life. That is what I signed up for. And now it has all crumbled and I need to make a plan.... it's all rather overwhelming.


A person does not have to be beaten until their jaw is broken to call 911 to get help for the abuse. Keep that in mind. If you are staying in the house with him, violence is likely to break out again. So be ready for it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

womble said:


> ) Then it escalated again. I wanted the car keys because I wanted to go running in the park with the dogs. He said he wouldn't give them to me and that I had to leave the room (we were sleeping in separate bedrooms). He started pushing me. i moved back into the room and demanded the keys. he then grabbed me and flung me on the bed. I saw the key on the bed and I quickly took it. He then started grabbing me and trying to get the key out of my hand, he twisted my hand so baldy that the keyholder cut into my hand and I started bleeding, dripping some blood on my pants. he kept grabbing me forcefully, trying to get the keys from my hand. I was crying uncontrollably. At one point he called me a ***** and spat in my face.


Since you are planning on staying in the same house with him, there is something you need to consider. In your description of him being physical, you need to consider your part of it.

The moment he started pushing you, you should have left to get away from him. Instead you pushed forward to get the keys. 

He was 100% wrong. I'm not blaming you for his violence. What I am telling you is that your actions escalated an already bad situation. In the future, if you even think that he is going to get violent, get away from him. Go to your room and lock the door. Or just leave the house.

It sounds like the two of you have one car. So make yourself a copy of the keys and keep them where you can access them anytime you want.

He got violent once, he will escalate from here. So you need a safety plan. I'll post one shortly.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JiltedH said:


> Just a question, not sure if it applies, did your actions/words feed his anger?
> 
> My wife would feed off my anger early on in our relationship. She'd try to make me angrier. We have an agreement now to avoid agitating when either is angry, and talk rationally later.
> 
> ...


This is very common actually. And it's why police hate domestic calls... it's often hard to tell how did what. Here where I live the police and courts very often charge both parties with domestic violence because very often both and engaging is the verbal and physical part of it.

You and your wife have found a very workable solution. It's the same sort of solution that helped stop most of the angry outburst and even physical violence in my marriage with my son's father.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is a book that might help you ..............

*Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men* by Lundy Bancroft

.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

womble said:


> Thanks Uptown, you've given me such a valuable response. All the stats and studies also work for me (I have that kind of brain, if there is science to back things up, I pay attention ;-)). I feel a lot of people here on this forum provide the obvious response: get the hell out. Of course that is the way forward. But it is such a difficult thing to do, as I do see his pain (he's from a broken home: his mother is a total psycho who didn't come to our wedding and he has only reconnected with his father two years ago, he was absent most of his life. He was raised by his grandmother, who is really strong and sweet and she is why, I think, he is not totally deranged), I do still love him and I also married him, which is a firm commitment. I am not condoning his behaviour, but I'm trying to say that it is just very complex.


While the advice to get the hell out might seem obvious and useless to you, you might be surprised how many people who post here need to hear it, over and over. Some stay here posting for months before they get the courage to leave. 

So, while you might dismiss the input people on here have spent their precious time giving you, it's often the very input that many people need.

You have decided to stay with him for now. That's not a good decision since you have zero control over his anger and violence. But like most abused women, there is a process that you need to work through.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

womble said:


> I feel a lot of people here on this forum provide the obvious response: get the hell out.


Womble, I agree with @*EleGirl* that the obvious response -- "get the hell out" -- is exactly what a substantial share of our members _need _to hear. And most of those members likely _want_ to hear it because they come here seeking validation for a painful decision they've already made but are having great difficulty taking action on.

Of course, there is no single solution or piece of advice that works for all our members. They have a variety of problems and arrive here at various stages in the healing process. Hence, what works for one abused member may not work for another. The beauty of the TAM forum, then, is that it offers the OP a variety of suggestions -- from folks having a wide range of experiences -- from which to choose.

I therefore am pleased to hear that you found the information I provided to be useful. But this is not always the case. I've participated in many threads where my advice is wholly ignored because the OP decides it is irrelevant to his/her situation -- or decides it is simply not helpful at his/her stage in the healing process.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I've seen posts that accuse the TAM crowd of "get divorced" as the go-to answer but let's face it...if the situation has come down to the point of someone seeking help from strangers on an internet forum...???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

womble said:


> Hi Satya,
> 
> You're absolutely right: I am also to blame and I have found myself in an exact same situation again so I must face the question: what is my own role in all of this? I do have a temper and I do lash out and I probably ignite his rage fits. I am really no angel. But I have never ever liften a hand against anyone I was with, never spat on a fellow human being ever, never threw beer on anyone. Never used physical violence.
> 
> ...


You seem determined to stay with this guy so that's that.Will you at least consider taking some self defence classes for your own protection.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Elizabeth001 said:


> I've seen posts that accuse the TAM crowd of "get divorced" as the go-to answer but let's face it...if the situation has come down to the point of someone seeking help from strangers on an internet forum...???


Some people come here with non-marriage-ending issue. But you are right that most of the time, when someone comes here and posts it's because their marriage has serious issues. When a person is not safe in their home, it's clearly time to leave.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

womble said:


> Thanks, you're right obviously. The problem is that I still love him. It's very hard to turn that off....But there aren't many options left, we have tried couples counseling already....


You love an ideation. Not the reality.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Speaking from someone that found herself in more than 1 abusive relationship, they always get worse. You need to do what you can to protect yourself and get out as soon as you can.

Your life is more important than what people who came to a party 6 months ago thinks, do live your life worrying what others think or you will just be miserable.

I loved the guys who abused me too, or so I thought. 

I left a house, vehicle and all my belongings to get away from the last one, none of it was worth my life.


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> This is very common actually. And it's why police hate domestic calls... it's often hard to tell how did what. Here where I live the police and courts very often charge both parties with domestic violence because very often both and engaging is the verbal and physical part of it.
> 
> You and your wife have found a very workable solution. It's the same sort of solution that helped stop most of the angry outburst and even physical violence in my marriage with my son's father.


Responding to Elegirl and the poster before her: of course I played a role and I am now going over what I did and you're 100 % right: at the first sign, I should walk away. It was when he thought it OK to take the car keys from me, that I pushed forward into the room. Not to feed his anger, but because I felt it was so unfair and unjust for him to keep the key from me. I probably shouldn't have done that. 

I'm also considering how effective these anger management tips or solutions could be for us, I know couples overcome violent episodes like this. But I fear the worst, as he really hasn't acknowledged his behaviour yet, yes the obligatory apologies, but not a full realization that he has been violent towards me. 

In terms of my safety: I think I will be fine, I have indicated that I want no contact other than what is required for living together calmly and he is respecting that. We don't share meals, transport or whatever. We're basically living separate lives in the same house. I've also told him that we are over for sure if he doesn't recognise his violent behaviour. Also, if he does lay a hand of me again I will phone the police. I don't think this will escalate. He is also now reasonable in sharing the car key. 

I've been on the run before from an abusive partner and now I just don't want to. This is my house too and I have a right to be here, with my dogs and my stuff. I'm fed up of having to hide. 

Thanks for the feedback.


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

And to everyone on this thread: thanks for the well meant advice. I know I need to get the hell out, I am just struggling at the moment with all the variables: love/work/house: it's all tangled up and even without the emotional fallout of a divorce, I'm finding it really difficult to make any decisions right now. I am totally not set on staying with him, I'm currently more in a mind to divorce, but what I'm trying to say here is that this incident has not turned off my love for him. That's a complicating factor. I am looking into all options now: leaving (just him or him and the country. If the latter option applies: where and how am I going to find work?) and reconciliation. That last option is not looking very hopeful. I am going overseas to see my family for a few weeks, gather my thoughts, come back and make the final decision. What I'm trying to point out that this situation is not black and white, even though it might seem that way from a distance. Our lives are entwined, we have a history, I still love the man. This makes decision making hard.


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## womble (Jun 16, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> You seem determined to stay with this guy so that's that.Will you at least consider taking some self defence classes for your own protection.


No Andy, I am not determined to stay with this guy. I'm struggling with a plethora of contradicting emotions.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

womble said:


> And to everyone on this thread: thanks for the well meant advice. I know I need to get the hell out, I am just struggling at the moment with all the variables: love/work/house: it's all tangled up and even without the emotional fallout of a divorce, I'm finding it really difficult to make any decisions right now. I am totally not set on staying with him, I'm currently more in a mind to divorce, but what I'm trying to say here is that this incident has not turned off my love for him. That's a complicating factor. I am looking into all options now: leaving (just him or him and the country. If the latter option applies: where and how am I going to find work?) and reconciliation. That last option is not looking very hopeful. I am going overseas to see my family for a few weeks, gather my thoughts, come back and make the final decision. What I'm trying to point out that this situation is not black and white, even though it might seem that way from a distance. Our lives are entwined, we have a history, I still love the man. This makes decision making hard.


Sorry but you loving him doesnt matter. Nor does your house matter. What matters is you not ending up dead or hospitalized. "Love" for him doesnt mean a damn thing at this point. You need to get out, and you need help ... you keep choosing abusers and you need to find out WHY. And WHY do you think you love someone who would do this to you? 

Go back home to your own country.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

womble said:


> And to everyone on this thread: thanks for the well meant advice. I know I need to get the hell out, I am just struggling at the moment with all the variables: love/work/house: it's all tangled up and even without the emotional fallout of a divorce, I'm finding it really difficult to make any decisions right now. I am totally not set on staying with him, I'm currently more in a mind to divorce, but what I'm trying to say here is that this incident has not turned off my love for him. That's a complicating factor. I am looking into all options now: leaving (just him or him and the country. If the latter option applies: where and how am I going to find work?) and reconciliation. That last option is not looking very hopeful. I am going overseas to see my family for a few weeks, gather my thoughts, come back and make the final decision. What I'm trying to point out that this situation is not black and white, even though it might seem that way from a distance. Our lives are entwined, we have a history, I still love the man. This makes decision making hard.


As long as you see him, hear his voice and live in the same house, you are very unlikely to lose your love for him. The emotion we call love is the reaction our brains have to the uptake of dopamine, oxytocin and other bonding & feel-good hormones. Every time you see him, hear his voice, think of him, are touched by him... your brain starts up taking those feel good chemicals like crazy.

And believe it or not, every time you two argue, fight, and even if he gets physically violent, your body will produce even more of those hormones and your brain will up-take them. Studies have shown that abuse, especially physical abuse, causes our brains to do this. It's some kind of coping mechanism that helps people survive bad situations. The more you are abused, the more of these chemicals your body/brain produce & use. And the more bonded and in love you will feel.

This is why we so often hear victims of abuse talk about horrible abuse on the one hand, and then talk about how much they love their abuser on the other. They will go on about how wonderful he (or she) is. It's because their brain and body are sending confusing signals via the brain chemicals. Humans are chemical engines. Everything we feel is actually a chemical reaction.

If you are going to stay in the same house with him, I suggest that you interact with him per the 180. See the 180 link in my signature block below.

The goal of abuse is to control the victim. As you try to take his control away from him as you are doing by living there while 'separated' he is very likely to escalate. He will most likely have a great need to regain control of you. Just be aware that you pulling away from him could make him even worse.


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## MamaxP (Jun 20, 2017)

womble said:


> I think I need to divorce my husband, but I'm not 100 % sure. He gets very bad anger attacks where he swears a lot, walks off. He had a tendency to break up with me in these anger fits, before we were married. Since we married, a two years ago, he threatens divorce regularly in our fights. He also had a history of either moving out or kicking me out of the house. Most of these previous fights we would somehow manage to contain and reconcile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm sorry you had to go through this. You do not deserve to be spat on or to even get hurt like that. 
Do you know if he is doing drugs? The reason I asked is because I caught mines and it explains his anger issues and tantrums. 


MamaxP


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