# Humiliation. How do you get past it?



## needrelief

Since my wife's affair, I've been a recluse.

Because she was angry at me at the time (and as far as she was concerned, our marriage was over), my wife had no shame in exposing her relationship. Everyone we know, knows she [email protected] someone else, including my parents, siblings, and children. She even posed on Facebook with the f'er. So even my long-distance friends and family are aware of her infidelity.

As a result, I have been thoroughly humiliated.

I don't know how to get past this and feel comfortable around others again.

Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


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## Hopeful Cynic

It's hard to wrap your brain around, I know, but you haven't been humiliated. Your wife is the one who should feel ashamed.

If the subject comes up in conversation, just tell people that your wife nearly broke the marriage, but you are working to reconcile with her. Make it clear that SHE chose to be selfish. Or you could just dump her.


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## needrelief

Hopeful Cynic said:


> It's hard to wrap your brain around, I know, but you haven't been humiliated. Your wife is the one who should feel ashamed.
> 
> If the subject comes up in conversation, just tell people that your wife nearly broke the marriage, but you are working to reconcile with her. Make it clear that SHE chose to be selfish. Or you could just dump her.


Yeah….I try to wrap my head around that type of thought, but the humiliation is still there.

The problem is…. I know how I think. If it was someone else, and I was looking in from the outside, I would be thinking, "What kind of man is he?" "He couldn't keep his wife satisfied?" "He must be a real jerk for his wife to do that."

I remember a time in the past- joking with the guys when we found out one of our coworker's wife was sleeping with another guy. The things we said behind his back were awful.

It's the way guys (a lot of guys) think.

Now I feel like I'm the laughing-stock.


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## WorkingOnMe

A new girlfriend would go a long way.


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## treyvion

needrelief said:


> Since my wife's affair, I've been a recluse.
> 
> Because she was angry at me at the time (and as far as she was concerned, our marriage was over), my wife had no shame in exposing her relationship. Everyone we know, knows she [email protected] someone else, including my parents, siblings, and children. She even posed on Facebook with the f'er. So even my long-distance friends and family are aware of her infidelity.
> 
> As a result, I have been thoroughly humiliated.
> 
> I don't know how to get past this and feel comfortable around others again.
> 
> Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


Well it really helps to leave a betrayer. It's a friend who you said it's ok to dog you out and embarrass you.

Outside of leaving her, her actions have nothing to do with you as a man. It doesn't define you, it doesn't have anything to do with you.

However if you are using her to base your attractiveness and sexiness, then you are not getting more points than the various OM's that come into her radar.


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## murphy5

WorkingOnMe said:


> A new girlfriend would go a long way.


dude, find your balls, and then go out and get them stroked!

why not leave her...she thinks nothing of you! Maybe you can post shots of you and your hot new GF on YOUR facebook page.

and it is HER that is humiliating herself. What do you think people think of HER when they see her facebook page with her cheating partner. "oh, they look so good together' or instead "boy, what a heartless ***** she is"


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## clipclop2

Leaving her is all I've got for ya. If you can't respect yourself more after she went out of her way to humiliate you little wonder you don't want to go out and show your face.


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## Anon Pink

needrelief said:


> Yeah….I try to wrap my head around that type of thought, but the humiliation is still there.
> 
> The problem is…. I know how I think. If it was someone else, and I was looking in from the outside, I would be thinking, "What kind of man is he?" "He couldn't keep his wife satisfied?" "He must be a real jerk for his wife to do that."
> 
> I remember a time in the past- joking with the guys when we found out one of our coworker's wife was sleeping with another guy. The things we said behind his back were awful.
> 
> It's the way guys (a lot of guys) think.
> 
> Now I feel like I'm the laughing-stock.



I'm very sorry for the pain you're currently going through. Please know that I am not wishing you to feel anymore pain when I say this.

The way you've treated others (or the hidden contempt for them and their predicament) during their misfortune has come back to bite you in the ass. I believe that is called karma.

Learn from it. Don't repeat it.


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## WorkingOnMe

needrelief said:


> I remember a time in the past- joking with the guys when we found out one of our coworker's wife was sleeping with another guy. The things we said behind his back were awful.



What would you have said behind his back if he dumped his cheating wife and showed up with a 23 year old hottie on his arm. 

See from my perspective your ongoing humiliation continues because of your ongoing acceptance.


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## clipclop2

The need to show up with a twenty-something onhis arm would be another side of the same coin - being a slave to what others think.

Truth is side is beating himself up because that's the way HE thinks. If he were so darn happy to stay with his wife he would realize it is his life and screw everyone else. But he cares about image. And he was an ass to others.

Seems to me some IC would be in order. 

But I would still recommend leaving because of what I said about self respect.


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## the guy

I wish I could help you out but I can't.

My old lady lied, betrayed, deceived, and committed adultary......ya that's all on her what the phuck do I or you for that matter have anything to do with someone elses behavior and character?

You should be laughing your @ss off for how stubid your old lady brags about her moral compass or lack of.

You want to gain some self respect back????? Dump her @ss!

Post her on cheaterville.com....or is it cheatersville.com?

You need to dust your self off and hold your head up high...unless you are a cheater too?

I mean really ....if sh8t was so bad in the marriage she could have done the honorable thing and divorced you...in stead she phuckin cheated....


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## the guy

If i was your sister or mother I would have beat her @ss after I found out


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## commonsenseisn't

needrelief said:


> Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


There's no advice that can help with the above stipulation. 

They are not laughing because she cheated on you.

They are laughing because you tolerate it.


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## WorkingOnMe

commonsenseisn't said:


> They are not laughing because she cheated on you.
> 
> 
> 
> They are laughing because you tolerate it.



Qft.


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## Decorum

What can you do to earn your self respect back?


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## GusPolinski

needrelief said:


> Since my wife's affair, I've been a recluse.
> 
> Because she was angry at me at the time (and as far as she was concerned, our marriage was over), my wife had no shame in exposing her relationship. Everyone we know, knows she [email protected] someone else, including my parents, siblings, and children. She even posed on Facebook with the f'er. So even my long-distance friends and family are aware of her infidelity.
> 
> As a result, I have been thoroughly humiliated.
> 
> I don't know how to get past this and feel comfortable around others again.
> 
> Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


Why is leaving her -- or, better yet, kicking her out -- off the table?


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## ConanHub

Did she have any repercussions for being a big wh0re?

The picture you portray is that you are married to a remorseless skank. What are you doing about it?

I am having a really hard time feeling sympathy for a man that won't stand up for himself. You did not deserve to be cheated on but you deserve every humiliation coming your way if you're just going to be a doormat.

Nobody can help you if you are not willing to do for yourself and cause your ww to feel some pain for her behavior.

Tell us more about your situation, answer some questions and take some advice.

Many people here have many examples that worked for them.

There is sure to be something to work for you.

Your feelings of humiliation won't change until you start taking some action.


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## LongWalk

Why are you together?

Did she end the affair herself?

Is she remorseful?


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## treyvion

These guys are right. It's not that you were cheated. It's that you allowed it and there was no repurcussions.


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## Racer

I know most the responses you are going to get won’t help. They will humiliate you further. The humiliation stems from your choice to take her back. This is flat out the source. 

So, quite frankly, you need to reconcile on your terms. That means doing whatever it is you need to do to find comfort in the decision. As long as you aren’t, your head is split with the insecurity that ‘maybe they are right and I am a [email protected]’. If you buy into that, you will feel humiliated. 

So look closely at how you are approaching your side of this relationship and what you want. If you are addressing her wants in a relationship, you will feel more humiliated than ever. But if she’s doing everything she can so you have the relationship you need, it gets easier. That’s part of why you need that remorse. She must humble herself privately and publically and see herself as fallen, so you get the efforts needed for her to regain a place at your side. 

What has she done to fix the public view of your marriage?


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## hookares

needrelief, do yourself a favor and dump this cheater you are trying to justify keeping.
You won't believe how much better you will feel.
While you are at it, dump the "friends", too.


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## treyvion

hookares said:


> needrelief, do yourself a favor and dump this cheater you are trying to justify keeping.
> You won't believe how much better you will feel.
> While you are at it, dump the "friends", too.


Simplest solution. It's always a releif to release or remove friends who have betrayed you badly.

She's a reminder of all that she put you through, it's not easy on the psyche at all.


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## SamuraiJack

Depending on how you deal with things, returning to self-respect can be difficult.

A person’s self respect is generally a reflection of how they feel about themselves. You have just suffered a blow to your self esteem and also came dangerously close to one of the childhood needs to be “good enough”. Realizing this will help a lot. Right now I bet there is a lot of self talk going on about how “if you were good enough” you would have been able to prevent the affair. This taking place at a pretty much subconscious level.

A return to self respect would involve you understanding and accepting that your wife did this for reasons that were all her own and that it is NO reflection on your worth as a person. 
Even if you contributed to it, even TOLD her to go have an affair, it was ultimately HER decision to act the way she did.
SHE broke the agreement.
SHE cheated.
SHE broadcasted it.

How is this your fault in any way shape or form?
Once you can answer that ( truthfully) you will understand that this isn’t about you, but rather a personal reaction to the feeling it brings up in you.

YOU are trying to honor your marriage and get back together.
YOU stayed true to your word.
YOU can hold you head up because you haven’t done anything wrong.

If you reconcile successfully people will say “Wow. He stuck by her and they did it! Gotta admire that!.”
If you split people will say “Damn. She treated him really poorly. No wonder they didn’t make it.”

Either way…you are cast in a better light.

BTW…the reason people snicker and joke about affairs is because they are dealing with conflicting feelings around fidelity, honesty and pleasure. One part of them would LOVE to step out on their spouse ( don’t let anyone kid you, humans will screw anything that will let them…) and the other part feels much like you do.

A combination of lust, guilt and dishonesty on a subconscious level will need to be dealt with.
The easiest and most socially acceptable way to do this is to joke about it.
Joking about it allows people to both relieve tension and get what they perceive as “an upper hand”.

Her actions are hers and hers alone.
Anyone who thinks this is a reflection on you obviously hasn’t given human being much thought.


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## abe7333

WorkingOnMe said:


> A new girlfriend would go a long way.



Amen to that


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## TRy

needrelief said:


> The problem is…. I know how I think. If it was someone else, and I was looking in from the outside, I would be thinking, "What kind of man is he?" "He couldn't keep his wife satisfied?" "He must be a real jerk for his wife to do that."


 You feel humiliated not because of the cheating but because of the public disrespect. I never think "What kind of man is he?" "He couldn't keep his wife satisfied?" "He must be a real jerk for his wife to do that." I do not think less of a man for having a cheating wife, even if he stays in the marriage. The only time that I question the cheated on spouse, is if they stay in the marriage after the the cheater publicly disrespected them by not being discreet when they cheated. The reason that you feel humiliated is because your wife not only cheat on you, but she publicly flaunted it to all of your friends and family. I personally would have a hard enough time forgiving the infidelity, but I could never forgive the hurtful flaunting of her affair. The public shaming of you that she did is some of the most hurtful cheating that I have ever read on this site. You feel humiliated because you stayed in the marriage in spite of this.

If you want to be married to her while having some dignity and self respect, you need to divorce her, date her, and then decide if you really want to be married to her again. Only then will the humiliation go away.


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## 2ntnuf

SamuraiJack said:


> Depending on how you deal with things, returning to self-respect can be difficult.
> 
> A person’s self respect is generally a reflection of how they feel about themselves. You have just suffered a blow to your self esteem and also came dangerously close to one of the childhood needs to be “good enough”. Realizing this will help a lot. Right now I bet there is a lot of self talk going on about how “if you were good enough” you would have been able to prevent the affair. This taking place at a pretty much subconscious level.
> 
> A return to self respect would involve you understanding and accepting that your wife did this for reasons that were all her own and that it is NO reflection on your worth as a person.
> Even if you contributed to it, even TOLD her to go have an affair, it was ultimately HER decision to act the way she did.
> SHE broke the agreement.
> SHE cheated.
> SHE broadcasted it.
> 
> How is this your fault in any way shape or form?
> Once you can answer that ( truthfully) you will understand that this isn’t about you, but rather a personal reaction to the feeling it brings up in you.
> 
> YOU are trying to honor your marriage and get back together.
> YOU stayed true to your word.
> YOU can hold you head up because you haven’t done anything wrong.
> 
> If you reconcile successfully people will say “Wow. He stuck by her and they did it! Gotta admire that!.”
> If you split people will say “Damn. She treated him really poorly. No wonder they didn’t make it.”
> 
> Either way…you are cast in a better light.
> 
> BTW…the reason people snicker and joke about affairs is because they are dealing with conflicting feelings around fidelity, honesty and pleasure. One part of them would LOVE to step out on their spouse ( don’t let anyone kid you, humans will screw anything that will let them…) and the other part feels much like you do.
> 
> A combination of lust, guilt and dishonesty on a subconscious level will need to be dealt with.
> The easiest and most socially acceptable way to do this is to joke about it.
> Joking about it allows people to both relieve tension and get what they perceive as “an upper hand”.
> 
> Her actions are hers and hers alone.
> Anyone who thinks this is a reflection on you obviously hasn’t given human being much thought.


Thank you SJ.


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## 2ntnuf

Found this. I forgot this. It was posted by a member of TAM, but I'm not sure whom. Hope it helps.

Developing Detachment / Letting Go
________________________________________
I just want to share with you guys this very nice article from livestrong.com. I know this will help!

DEVELOPING DETACHMENT
By Jake Lawson 

What is detachment?
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.

What are the negative effects not detaching?
If you are unable to detach from people, places or things, then you:
* Will have people, places or things which become over-dependent on you.
* Run the risk of being manipulated to do things for people, at places or with things which you do not really want to do.
* Can become an obsessive "fix it" who needs to fix everything you perceive to be imperfect.
* Run the risk of performing tasks because of the intimidation you experience from people, places or things.
* Will most probably become powerless in the face of the demands of the people, places or things whom you have given the power to control you.
* Will be blind to the reality that the people, places or things which control you are the uncontrollables and unchangeables you need to let go of if you are to become a fully healthy, coping individual.
* Will be easily influenced by the perception of helplessness which these people, places or things project.
* Might become caught up with your idealistic need to make everything perfect for people, places or things important to you even if it means your own life becomes unhealthy.
* Run the risk of becoming out of control of yourself and experience greater low self-esteem as a result.
* Will most probably put off making a decision and following through on it, if you rationally recognize your relationship with a person, place or thing is unhealthy and the only recourse left is to get out of the relationship.
* Will be so driven by guilt and emotional dependence that the sickness in the relationship will worsen.
* Run the risk of losing your autonomy and independence and derive your value or worth solely from the unhealthy relationship you continue in with the unhealthy person, place or thing.

How is detachment a control issue?
Detachment is a control issue because:
* It is a way of de-powering the external "locus of control" issues in your life and a way to strengthen your internal "locus of control."
* If you are not able to detach emotionally or physically from a person, place or thing, then you are either profoundly under its control or it is under your control.
* The ability to "keep distance" emotionally or physically requires self-control and the inability to do so is a sign that you are "out of control."
* If you are not able to detach from another person, place or thing, you might be powerless over this behavior which is beyond your personal control.
* You might be mesmerized, brainwashed or psychically in a trance when you are in the presence of someone from whom you cannot detach.
* You might feel intimidated or coerced to stay deeply attached with someone for fear of great harm to yourself or that person if you don't remain so deeply involved.
* You might be an addicted caretaker, fixer or rescuer who cannot let go of a person, place or thing you believe cannot care for itself.
* You might be so manipulated by another's con, "helplessness," overdependency or "hooks" that you cannot leave them to solve their own problems.
* If you do not detach from people, places or things, you could be so busy trying to "control" them that you completely divert your attention from yourself and your own needs.
* By being "selfless" and "centered" on other people, you are really a controller trying to fix them to meet the image of your ideal for them.
* Although you will still have feelings for those persons, places and things from which you have become detached, you will have given them the freedom to become what they will be on their own merit, power, control and responsibility.
* It allows every person, place or thing with which you become involved to feel the sense of personal responsibility to become a unique, independent and autonomous being with no fear of retribution or rebuke if they don't please you by what they become.

What irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach?
* If you should stop being involved, what will they do without you?
* They need you and that is enough to justify your continued involvement.
* What if they commit suicide because of your detachment? You must stay involved to avoid this.
* You would feel so guilty if anything bad should happen to them after you reduced your involvement with them.
* They are absolutely dependent on you at this point and to back off now would be a crime.
* You need them as much as they need you.
* You can't control yourself because everyday you promise yourself "today is the day" you will detach your feelings but you feel driven to them and their needs.
* They have so many problems, they need you.
* Being detached seems so cold and aloof. You can't be that way when you love and care for a person. It's either 100 percent all the way or no way at all.
* If you should let go of this relationship too soon, the other might change to be like the fantasy or dream you want them to be.
* How can being detached from them help them? It seems like you should do more to help them.
* Detachment sounds so final. It sounds so distant and non-reachable. You could never allow yourself to have a relationship where there is so much emotional distance between you and others. It seems so unnatural.
* You never want anybody in a relationship to be emotionally detached from you so why would you think it a good thing to do for others?
* The family that plays together stays together. It's all for one and one for all. Never do anything without including the significant others in your life.
* If one hurts in the system, we all hurt. You do not have a good relationship with others unless you share in their pain, hurt, suffering, problems and troubles.
* When they are in "trouble," how can you ignore their "pleas" for help? It seems cruel and inhuman.
* When you see people in trouble, confused and hurting, you must always get involved and try to help them solve the problems.
* When you meet people who are "helpless," you must step in to give them assistance, advice, support and direction.
* You should never question the costs, be they material, emotional or physical, when another is in dire need of help.
* You would rather forgo all the pleasures of this world in order to assist others to be happy and successful.
* You can never "give too much" when it comes to providing emotional support, comforting and care of those whom you love and cherish.
* No matter how badly your loved ones hurt and abuse you, you must always be forgiving and continue to extend your hand in help and support.
* Tough love is a cruel, inhuman and anti-loving philosophy of dealing with the troubled people in our lives and you should instead love them more when they are in trouble since "love" is the answer to all problems.

How to Develop Detachment
In order to become detached from a person, place or thing, you need to:

First: Establish emotional boundaries between you and the person, place or thing with whom you have become overly enmeshed or dependent on.

Second: Take back power over your feelings from persons, places or things which in the past you have given power to affect your emotional well-being.

Third: "Hand over" to your Higher Power the persons, places and things which you would like to see changed but which you cannot change on your own.

Fourth: Make a commitment to your personal recovery and self-health by admitting to yourself and your Higher Power that there is only one person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity you need to let go of the "need" to fix, change, rescue or heal other persons, places and things.

Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick" and "unhealthy" to believe that you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal or rescue another person, place or thing if they do not want to get better nor see a need to change.

Sixth: Recognize that you need to be healthy yourself and be "squeaky clean" and a "role model" of health in order for another to recognize that there is something "wrong" with them that needs changing.

Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not blame others for the way you feel.

Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy actions, feelings and thinking and cease looking for the persons, places or things you can blame for your unhealthiness.

Ninth: Accept that addicted fixing, rescuing, enabling are "sick" behaviors and strive to extinguish these behaviors in your relationship to persons, places and things.

Tenth: Accept that many people, places and things in your past and current life are "irrational," "unhealthy" and "toxic" influences in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop minimizing their negative impact in your life.

Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt and other irrational beliefs which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life.

Twelfth: Practice "letting go" of the need to correct, fix or make better the persons, places and things in life over which you have no control or power to change.

Steps in Developing Detachment
Step 1: It is important to first identify those people, places and things in your life from which you would be best to develop emotional detachment in order to retain your personal, physical, emotional and spiritual health. To do this you need to review the following types of toxic relationships and identify in your journal if any of the people, places or things in your life fit any of the following 20 categories.

Types of Toxic Relationships
* You find it hard to let go of because it is addictive.
* The other is emotionally unavailable to you.
* Coercive, threatening, intimidating to you.
* Punitive or abusive to you.
* Non-productive and non-reinforcing for you.
* Smothering you.
* Other is overly dependent on you.
* You are overly dependent on the other.
* Other has the power to impact your feelings about yourself.
* Relationship in which you are a chronic fixer, rescuer or enabler.
* Relationship in which your obligation and loyalty won't allow you to let go.
* Other appears helpless, lost and out of control.
* Other is self-destructive or suicidal.
* Other has an addictive disease.
* Relationship in which you are being manipulated and conned.
* When guilt is a major motivating factor preventing your letting go and detaching.
* Relationship in which you have a fantasy or dream that the other will come around and change to be what you want.
* Relationship in which you and the other are competitive for control.
* Relationship in which there is no forgiveness or forgetting and all past hurts are still brought up to hurt one another.
* Relationship in which your needs and wants are ignored.

Step 2: Once you have identified the persons, places and things you have a toxic relationship with, then you need to take each one individually and work through the following steps.

Step 3: Identify the irrational beliefs in the toxic relationship which prevent you from becoming detached. Address these beliefs and replace them with healthy, more rational ones.

Step 4: Identify all of the reasons why you are being hurt and your physical, emotional and spiritual health is being threatened by the relationship.

Step 5: Accept and admit to yourself that the other person, place or thing is "sick," dysfunctional or irrational, and that no matter what you say, do or demand you will not be able to control or change this reality. Accept that there is only one thing you can change in life and that is you. All others are the unchangeables in your life. Change your expectations that things will be better than what they really are. Hand these people, places or things over to your Higher Power and let go of the need to change them.

Step 6: Work out reasons why there is no need to feel guilt over letting go and being emotionally detached from this relationship and free yourself from guilt as you let go of the emotional "hooks" in the relationship.

Step 7: Affirm yourself as being a person who "deserves" healthy, wholesome, health-engendering relationships in your life. You are a good person and deserve healthy relationships, at home, work and in the community.

Step 8: Gain support for yourself as you begin to let go of your emotional enmeshment with these relationships.

Step 9: Continue to call upon your Higher Power for the strength to continue to let go and detach.

Step 10: Continue to give no person, place or thing the power to affect or impact your feelings about yourself.

Step 11: Continue to detach and let go and work at self-recovery and self-healing as this poem implies.

"Letting Go"
* To "let go" does not mean to stop caring; it means I can't do it for someone else.
* To "let go" is not to cut myself off; it's the realization I can't control another.
* To "let go" is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.
* To "let go" is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.
* To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another; it's to make the most of myself.
* To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about.
* To "let go" is not to fix, but to be supportive.
* To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.
* To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
* To "let go" is not to be protective; it's to permit another to face reality.
* To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept.
* To "let go" is not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
* To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody, but to try to become what I dream I can be.
* To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires, but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.
* To "let go" is to not regret the past, but to grow and live for the future.
* To "let go" is to fear less and love myself more.

Step 12: If you still have problems detaching, then return to Step 1 and begin all over again.


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## GrannyMildew

Hello all. The next time you decide to have your fun at other's expense behind their back, think of this. Nothing ever good comes from taking fun or amusement in others problems behind their back.

As far as your wife, you must now decide if this is something you can forgive or if you need to part. Given that you feel humiliated, I suggest that you think long and hard before deciding to move forward with this woman, no matter how much you think you love her.

Her actions publicly, show a lack of love and compassion, and sorrow for her actions. Is this REALLY the woman you want holding your heart for the long term?

If I were you, I would think long and hard before re- committing myself and my heart to someone who cares so little for yours. I wish you discernment and much happiness in the future. With whomever you decide to give your heart to.


----------



## Juicer

My XW cheated on me. 

And I was 6'2" and 220. 
My body was the product of years of hard work in the gym and steroids. 
And I made a good living. Hell I made an excellent living. 

Yet she still choose to be with someone else. 

I was beyond broken. 

And some of my coworkers teased me. 
At first I ignored them. I figured, none of them would be dumb enough to actually say something to my face. If they knew my wife cheated, they had to know what my recreational activities were. 
Until one day, some guy cracked a joke I must have ED otherwise my XW wouldn't have gone looking else where. 

After that, I decided to go ballistic on people about twice a week for maybe 2 weeks. 
And I may have hinted at my recreational activities. 
Amazing how fast rumors about someone disappears when people learn the victim is six foot and loves his steroids. 

Not that I am suggesting steroids, but don't stand for anyone that tries to tease you. 

Personally, I would suggest what WorkingOnMe suggested. 
Get a hot 20 something girlfriend and parade her on facebook, your work, and where ever else. 

They can tease you for dating her. 
But everyone knows, they are jealous.


----------



## JCD

I have a solution: Predicate your continued relationship on both of you moving.

She has created an unacceptable situation for you. Now she needs to fix it.

So the both of you move to another state and find new friends. They can look at you as a new couple.

If she does not want to do that, then you really know the state of your current relationship.

Additionally, I would hit the gym and take protein. There is nothing like lifting twice what you could before which gives you a reinforced self esteem. Seeing your new body, she will treat you differently.

And despite the protests of our more liberated females here, OTHER women will look at you differently...and that is a balm which cures a good bit of humiliation.

Even if you don't move, dump all her friends. Why should you accept them into your life just to cause you to trigger. If she wants to see them, she can see them out of the house or apartment.

Let me tell you: if she shot you in the back, would I think you less of a man for not being bullet proof? Being in a relationship is about making yourself vulnerable. This is not a crime: it is what a relationship is all about.

That she took advantage of this is very much morally on her. And honestly, what she did was based on hate. I would have some serious reservations staying with such a lady. What will she do next, a Lorena Bobbit?

Last bit of advice. You can also start to STRONGLY emotionally distance yourself from her and your friends. If you don't mind, they don't matter. 

Now, for a woman to do this, she is either evil (possible) or you somehow offended her mightily. Discover what you did and fix it in yourself. Not for her (we need a spitting emoticon), but for you. Fix yourself so you are a better person, once again, FOR YOU.

So if this relationship finally crashes and burns, you can move on with a sense that the next one will be better.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

How old are you anyways? Sounds like you are suffering from a maturity issue if you can laugh and poke fun at other men who had the misfortune of being cheated on by a wife. If nothing else, you should at least learn about empathy and perhaps next time you see someone suffering a traumatic situation you will think differently.

Back to your issue. Has your wife demonstrated any remorse to you for what happened and/or are you two dealing with the issue head on? You may be feeling humiliated because you decided to stay with someone who is not demonstrating true remorse for what she did. Based on what you wrote in the OP and what you and your work buddies said about another guy whose wife cheated on him, you are being raked over the coals by these "friends" for what your wife did. Sorry, but you have to conclude that. Moving forward, your wife needs to demonstrate to the world that you are her one and only, and that she is terribly saddened by the cheating. If she does not do that, I don't see how your marriage will survive.


----------



## JCD

How did the family and friends react to this situation? Did they offer you any support? Did they condemn your wife? Did they stay out of it?

That last would trouble me very much. 

Let me help quantify what you are feeling. It isn't necessarily all humiliation. I think a large part of it is isolation: that all these people whom you thought would be there to support you...didn't.

That makes you question everything. Did you 'have it coming'? Did they think she was 'too good for you'? Did they take her side?

Now, I think it very likely in some ways, most of them wanted to stay out of it. But you don't view it that way. You think they took her side because they didn't take yours. And for all practical purposes (though not in their minds) you are correct. A woman being beaten on the side of the road would not think that people were 'on her side' if they just walk by, even though most of those people are responding out of fear.

So...it isn't just her! You need to start to question all these relationships and that is staggering!

Some more information would be helpful.


----------



## Forest

I think this is another of those "easier said than done" situations, but using logic and common sense will still solve most problems.

I understand where you're coming from, and believe you've got every right to feel as you do, if that's what you want. But to address the solution:

If you feel humiliated, and don't like it -- stop feeling humiliated. Makes no sense, right? Still, that's how to defeat it. Ignore it into submission.

Do exactly what a non-humiliated person would do. Hold your head up, conduct your business, and don't give a damn or a thought to what others think. Control your mind/thoughts. You're at war with this thing, and fighting is the only way to beat it.

Set about kicking humiliation's butt, and the rest will follow.


----------



## Wolf1974

GusPolinski said:


> Why is leaving her -- or, better yet, kicking her out -- off the table?


I agree. Really this is all you have left in my opinion. You aren't a sucker because she cheated, that's on her, but you staying is on you. She had no consequences for her actions. You staying tells her and others that. I think it's totally normal to feel humiliated under those circumstances. I know I woud .


----------



## ne9907

needrelief said:


> Since my wife's affair, I've been a recluse.
> 
> *Because she was angry at me at the time* (and as far as she was concerned, our marriage was over), my wife had no shame in exposing her relationship. Everyone we know, knows she [email protected] someone else, including my parents, siblings, and children. She even posed on Facebook with the f'er. So even my long-distance friends and family are aware of her infidelity.
> 
> As a result, I have been thoroughly humiliated.
> 
> I don't know how to get past this and feel comfortable around others again.
> 
> Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


She cheated on you BUT she was ANGRY at you???
Dude... what did you do to make her so angry she had to cheat on you???

Seriously... you need help. I feel awful for you. It is not your fault, it never was. You should be upset, not humiliated. Please go see a couselor. I am so sorry


----------



## unbelievable

She humiliated herself, not you.


----------



## treyvion

Juicer said:


> My XW cheated on me.
> 
> And I was 6'2" and 220.
> My body was the product of years of hard work in the gym and steroids.
> And I made a good living. Hell I made an excellent living.
> 
> Yet she still choose to be with someone else.
> 
> I was beyond broken.


Wasn't your fault. I'm sure you treated her excellent too.



Juicer said:


> And some of my coworkers teased me.
> At first I ignored them. I figured, none of them would be dumb enough to actually say something to my face. If they knew my wife cheated, they had to know what my recreational activities were.
> Until one day, some guy cracked a joke I must have ED otherwise my XW wouldn't have gone looking else where.


They always assume the worst. I don't know how the cheated carries a penalty of being cheated, and also catching the blame for the affair(s).



Juicer said:


> After that, I decided to go ballistic on people about twice a week for maybe 2 weeks.
> And I may have hinted at my recreational activities.
> Amazing how fast rumors about someone disappears when people learn the victim is six foot and loves his steroids.


Repurcussions will quiet down the hyenas.



Juicer said:


> Not that I am suggesting steroids, but don't stand for anyone that tries to tease you.
> 
> Personally, I would suggest what WorkingOnMe suggested.
> Get a hot 20 something girlfriend and parade her on facebook, your work, and where ever else.
> 
> They can tease you for dating her.
> But everyone knows, they are jealous.


You guys are always going younger.


----------



## treyvion

Forest said:


> I think this is another of those "easier said than done" situations, but using logic and common sense will still solve most problems.
> 
> I understand where you're coming from, and believe you've got every right to feel as you do, if that's what you want. But to address the solution:
> 
> If you feel humiliated, and don't like it -- stop feeling humiliated. Makes no sense, right? Still, that's how to defeat it. Ignore it into submission.
> 
> Do exactly what a non-humiliated person would do. Hold your head up, conduct your business, and don't give a damn or a thought to what others think. Control your mind/thoughts. You're at war with this thing, and fighting is the only way to beat it.
> 
> Set about kicking humiliation's butt, and the rest will follow.


Yes, her actions do not define you.

It's still easier to remove a betrayer from your eyes and ears when discovered.


----------



## bandit.45

Her continued presence in your life will be a daily reminder of how you accepted her humiliating you and you did nothing. Either change your life situation or live in the dungeon of your own complacency. 

Dont come on here and make stipulations about what we should or should not advise you to do. I do advise you to divorce her. Like...yesterday.


----------



## chillymorn

bandit.45 said:


> Her continued presence in your life will be a daily reminder of how you accepted her humiliating you and you did nothing. Either change your life situation or live in the dungeon of your own complacency.
> 
> Dont come on here and make stipulations about what we should or should not advise you to do. I do advise you to divorce her. Like...yesterday.


:iagree: 1000%

put your big boy pants on and really really think if you want to spend any more of your life with a woman who is so vindictive that she could do what she did. 

people like her do not change!


----------



## JustTired

OP,

As a woman, what your wife did to you is despicable. To flaunt the other man in the manner that she did is completely classless & disgusting. Rest assured, her action do not reflect negatively on you - like others have said.

As far as feeling humiliated....What exactly are you attaching shame to? Are you attaching shame to the fact that you have taken her back after her public displays of _affliction_? Or you are attaching shame solely to her f*cked up actions? If it's the latter, rest assure that her action say nothing about you & ALL about her. If the the shame & humiliation you are feeling has more to do with taking her back after all the bull$hit - then you got some serious thinking to do.


----------



## needrelief

I hear what you all are saying about leaving out of self-respect. But because the specifics of my situation are so “unique” (yeah, I know, everyone thinks their situation is unique), I think a lot more detail is in order. My problem actually involves a lot more than just humiliation….
Also, it’s not my intention to paint my wife in a bad light, but its hard not to do so when speaking of things from my (angry, hurt, dazed) perspective.
Hold on, this gets very LONG, convoluted and explicitly graphic towards the end....
I’m new to _Talk About Marriage_, so I apologize if this post breaks any rules.

As a side note:
When I mentioned joking about a coworker’s misfortune- that was several years ago. I was in my late 20s. I was young and naïve, and I assure you it was not done with malice or contempt. It was done with ignorance. Even before it happened to me, I would never have been so insensitive within the last 15 years….
Also, no one around me now has outwardly made fun of, or mocked me. Thank God, everyone I’ve come into direct contact with has been very supportive.​
Here goes.

I've been married for 18 years and with my wife for 24 years. My whole adult life…. (I’m 44)
I love her and have devoted my life to her and my family. I don't know how to do anything else.

Last year, my wife had an affair after filing for divorce. So I guess technically, she didn't “cheat” But we were still married, and the divorce was not something I wanted. And there was also a very complex non-sexual betrayal on her part, prior to her filing for divorce- which led to the PA.

This, compounded with the quickness of the PA- without attempt at R until after the PA had ended- takes away any “brownie point” my wife gets for not [email protected] until after filing paperwork.

Her friends and family were very supportive of her divorcing me and of the new relationship. I believe this had a lot to do with her initial betrayal- which involved another family (lets call them _the Cun+s_) who were overstepping their bounds with my family.

About a year and a half ago, I recognized that _the Cun+s_ were not good for my family and distance was needed between them and us. At this time, there was no large problem between my wife and me. However, when I tried to get _the Cun+s_ out of our lives, my wife didn’t agree. These people had helped us in the past and my wife felt a bond with them. But I was emphatic, that they were a problem. So after _the Cun+s_ were told they could no longer be in our lives, my wife fell into a six-month funk where she didn’t talk to me. I was angry, hurt and felt betrayed that my wife didn’t acknowledge how manipulative and undermining _the Cun+s_ were to our (especially my) relationship with our children, so I didn’t go out of my way to talk to my wife either.

We went on living in the same house, without any real contact for a good four months. Every once in a while, we’d argue. She’d say we need counseling. I’d say,
“Ok, but before couples counseling, I want you to go to individual counseling for a month….”
My rational was that she had other issues she needed to work thru (why else would she be so invested with these other people, at the detriment to the relationship with her husband and children).

She didn’t want to do the month of individual counseling, so after a horrible trip to Disneyland, the next day, I got a call after work, and she told me to meet her somewhere to talk.

She then told me she was leaving and until she got her own place, she and the kids would be staying *WITH THE CUN+S!*

I became incensed! I couldn’t believe she was going directly into the lion’s den and taking my cubs! *What a complete betrayal! *What kind of woman would jeopardize her children’s relationship with their father by moving them in with people who blatantly undermined her and her husband’s authority?

I felt completely betrayed and told her that this was a deal-breaker. She could come back home or go anywhere else, but as long as she stayed with _the Cun+s_, it was a complete betrayal and she was choosing them over me….

She chose them…. and started divorce proceedings three weeks later.

The quick exit without warning, the quick divorce filing, and the contemptuous way she spoke to me all seemed the actions of an immature person reacting to not getting her way, or of a person enticed by the prospect of else something.

During the time she stayed with _the Cun+s_, she made no attempts at R, and no real attempts to actually find a permanent place for her and my kids. She lost her job, and with all the extra time on her hands, she put all her efforts into partying with friends. These friends were all also friends, family, or someway connected with _the Cun+s_ so they of course thought I was an a$$hole. As a result, they were very supportive of my wife’s decision to leave me, and spent very little time trying to get her to reflect on her situation and not make any rash decisions. Instead, they welcomed her into their group (which consisted of a lot of divorced adulterers), and were eager to help her move on.... 

And before long, my wife was reintroduced with, and started sleeping with, some loser a$$hole she went to high school with.


In the meantime, my anger at the betrayal was slowly turning to sadness and depression. I thought about moving in with my parents but instead got a townhome so my kids could at least have their own space when they were with me. 

After 24 years, my life had taken a turn I could have never imagined. I felt like a failure, I mourned my old life, I missed seeing my kids every day, and I missed my wife. Unlike my wife, I was visibly upset by the breakup. I didn’t see it as partytime. I saw it as the worst point in my life.

I slipped into a really bad depression.

I began missing hours and days at work. I’d cry until I felt like I was going to die. Trying to hold myself together while my kids were present was agonizing and not always successful. I became withdrawn- even from my parents and siblings. I stopped sleeping and eating. I thought I was going crazy and all I could think was *“I GOTTA GET MY WIFE BACK!”*

But she had moved on. She (now) says that she never felt anything for the OM. That it was just sex (of which they had plenty of- but according to my wife, wasn’t good). However, despite not feeling anything for this other guy (I call bullsh!t), whenever I asked her to come back to me, she would tell me that she no longer loved me and that I needed to stop talking about reconciliation. But I couldn’t think of anything else that would help make my pain go away.

After a couple more months of agonizing pain, including watching my wife pawn-off our children during her custody time so she could go [email protected] in Las Vegas, I was still not deterred from trying to get her back. I was obsessed and consumed with it. I tried to find/create every opportunity to meet with her- which she would almost always deny, unless it was in a public place. But I had no shame. I would sob and beg no matter where we met (once even in the middle of a crowded fast food restaurant).

Then one day I asked her to meet me to discuss the children (the only ploy I had to get her to agree), and she agreed to meet me at my townhome.

*Immediately my sensors went up.* She had never agreed to meet at my house before. I knew at that moment something was different. Sensing an opportunity, I took my kids to my parents’ house, so we could be alone.

When she came to my place, I quickly turned the conversation from the kids, to my desire to R. I asked her, “Why can’t we be together? Is it because of your _boyfriend_”
I had always contemptuously referred to the OM as her “_boyfriend_” and she had always ignored it in the past. But this time, she replied, “He’s not my boyfriend.”

*AHHH!!! This was the moment I was waiting for. Finally, a hint of trouble in paradise. *

I began to pour my heart out and moved from a separate couch, to grab her hand and kneel in front of the couch where she sat. She didn’t move away, so I advanced. She unconvincingly attempted to continue the conversation until I’d advanced to the point where we were finally engaged in a passionate kiss.

*I’d never felt such passion, elation, release, and relief in my life.*

I took her into the bedroom and we made love.

From that moment, I was in a fog.

My appetite to have her was beyond intense. For the next couple of weeks, I could think of nothing other than having sex with my wife, and I created every opportunity to do so. She tried to hold strong to the bullsh!t reasons that she left me, but with the OM having dumped her a week earlier, she stopped believing her own bullsh!t and gave in to the passion of our reconnection.

On the third week, we told the kids, and she moved in.

Though I felt as though a huge weight had been lifted, unfortunately, the reconnection did not bring an end to my pain. The excruciating pain of her [email protected] another man was still there, and the emotional hurt and humiliation was intense. As a result, many nights, after making love, we’d fall into heated, passionate, intense discussions that lead to arguments and crying (and sometimes, more sex).

I called her names and kicked her out several times, only to run after her (once down the street, in my underwear, w/an erection!).

I’ve been f’ed-up sexually. At first, I didn’t know it existed (or that there is actually a term for it), but now I recognize that I suffer from hysterical bonding. Even now, almost a year from our R, the desire to have sex with my wife is all consuming. But at the same time, I have to continually fight the images in my head of her [email protected] another man.

The fact that my wife is very sexual helps, because she never turns me down. She can hypnotize me with the way she touches me. This is great, until I start thinking, “GOD!!! Did she do this with him!?!?!”
*Then I want to die. *

Do you have any idea how horrifying it is to think of another man’s [email protected] inside your wife while you’re making love to her?!?!!! Sometimes these thoughts will cause me to not be able to achieve, or to lose my erection (something that NEVER happened before her affair).

I’m obsessed with doing things sexually with my wife that I feel she didn’t do with him. Once I intentionally- without warning- came on her face. And though I know she doesn’t like it, I need her to swallow my cum, and I fantasize about taking her anally. These are all things I’m pretty sure she didn’t do with him. And I need them, because I need to feel like there are things that she has only given to me.

The visions and the humiliation can sometime (often) be too much to bear. There literally is *NOT* a single minute in the day that her affair is completely out of my mind. It’s exhausting, and I’m exhausted.

But I love her. I love her, and I’m in pain.
*But the pain needs to end.* The pain of being without her is excruciating (I’ve lived it.). But the pain of the thought of her sleeping with someone else, and the pain of humiliation can be completely debilitating.

I don’t know what to do….

On a positive note:
When my wife told _the Cun+s_ about our reconciliation, the lead _Cun+_ called out-of-state to my wife’s dad (hoping to cause trouble) and took it upon herself to inform him that my wife had moved back with me. Whatever _the Cun+_ told him backfired and he told my wife that he would support whatever she decided. Not surprisingly, at the same time, _the Cun+_ was also telling my oldest son (who was estranged to me during most of our separation) that he shouldn’t come home.
The combination of these two instances was enough for my wife to finally recognize and accept how manipulative and undermining the _Cun+s_ really are.
And finally.... they are now out of our lives.​
Thanks to anyone who hung in and read all of this. I don’t know if having all this info changes any of the opinions of those who have responded so far, but I just had to get it off my chest.

I don’t know what to do next….


----------



## tulsy

Wow...fawkin nightmare.

I feel for ya, bro.


----------



## BaxJanson

Yup, not really unique at all, sorry to say.

Step one is to stop contact with her. Yeah, it'll suck. Yeah, it'll hurt. But this pain is one which will end. The wound from leaving her will, with time and attentiveness (get an IC, quick) heal. The wound from staying with an abusive harpy gets picked back open every single day - and it will never heal. It'll grow, get infected, and eventually contaminate everything you do. You want to stop hurting? Choose the path which will let you heal. It won't stop hurting right away. You need time to recover. But it will stop hurting. And if you do it right, you'll be the stronger for the wounds you've taken.


----------



## jorgegene

I read it all. It is trite and cliche for me to say this, but I can feel your pain.

Partly because I once went through similar though not quite as terrible as you.

I don't think the advice is going to change though. I think people will still think your wife has crossed the line too long and too much.

What a horrible dilemma.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

needrelief said:


> I hear what you all are saying about leaving out of self-respect. But because the specifics of my situation are so “unique” (yeah, I know, everyone thinks their situation is unique), I think a lot more detail is in order. My problem actually involves a lot more than just humiliation….
> Also, it’s not my intention to paint my wife in a bad light, but its hard not to do so when speaking of things from my (angry, hurt, dazed) perspective.
> Hold on, this gets very LONG, convoluted and explicitly graphic towards the end....
> I’m new to _Talk About Marriage_, so I apologize if this post breaks any rules.
> 
> As a side note:
> When I mentioned joking about a coworker’s misfortune- that was several years ago. I was in my late 20s. I was young and naïve, and I assure you it was not done with malice or contempt. It was done with ignorance. Even before it happened to me, I would never have been so insensitive within the last 15 years….
> Also, no one around me now has outwardly made fun of, or mocked me. Thank God, everyone I’ve come into direct contact with has been very supportive.​
> Here goes.
> 
> I've been married for 18 years and with my wife for 24 years. My whole adult life…. (I’m 44)
> I love her and have devoted my life to her and my family. I don't know how to do anything else.
> 
> Last year, my wife had an affair after filing for divorce. So I guess technically, she didn't “cheat” But we were still married, and the divorce was not something I wanted. And there was also a very complex non-sexual betrayal on her part, prior to her filing for divorce- which led to the PA.
> 
> This, compounded with the quickness of the PA- without attempt at R until after the PA had ended- takes away any “brownie point” my wife gets for not [email protected] until after filing paperwork.
> 
> Her friends and family were very supportive of her divorcing me and of the new relationship. I believe this had a lot to do with her initial betrayal- which involved another family (lets call them _the Cun+s_) who were overstepping their bounds with my family.
> 
> About a year and a half ago, I recognized that _the Cun+s_ were not good for my family and distance was needed between them and us. At this time, there was no large problem between my wife and me. However, when I tried to get _the Cun+s_ out of our lives, my wife didn’t agree. These people had helped us in the past and my wife felt a bond with them. But I was emphatic, that they were a problem. So after _the Cun+s_ were told they could no longer be in our lives, my wife fell into a six-month funk where she didn’t talk to me. I was angry, hurt and felt betrayed that my wife didn’t acknowledge how manipulative and undermining _the Cun+s_ were to our (especially my) relationship with our children, so I didn’t go out of my way to talk to my wife either.
> 
> We went on living in the same house, without any real contact for a good four months. Every once in a while, we’d argue. She’d say we need counseling. I’d say,
> “Ok, but before couples counseling, I want you to go to individual counseling for a month….”
> My rational was that she had other issues she needed to work thru (why else would she be so invested with these other people, at the detriment to the relationship with her husband and children).
> 
> She didn’t want to do the month of individual counseling, so after a horrible trip to Disneyland, the next day, I got a call after work, and she told me to meet her somewhere to talk.
> 
> She then told me she was leaving and until she got her own place, she and the kids would be staying *WITH THE CUN+S!*
> 
> I became incensed! I couldn’t believe she was going directly into the lion’s den and taking my cubs! *What a complete betrayal! *What kind of woman would jeopardize her children’s relationship with their father by moving them in with people who blatantly undermined her and her husband’s authority?
> 
> I felt completely betrayed and told her that this was a deal-breaker. She could come back home or go anywhere else, but as long as she stayed with _the Cun+s_, it was a complete betrayal and she was choosing them over me….
> 
> She chose them…. and started divorce proceedings three weeks later.
> 
> The quick exit without warning, the quick divorce filing, and the contemptuous way she spoke to me all seemed the actions of an immature person reacting to not getting her way, or of a person enticed by the prospect of else something.
> 
> During the time she stayed with _the Cun+s_, she made no attempts at R, and no real attempts to actually find a permanent place for her and my kids. She lost her job, and with all the extra time on her hands, she put all her efforts into partying with friends. These friends were all also friends, family, or someway connected with _the Cun+s_ so they of course thought I was an a$$hole. As a result, they were very supportive of my wife’s decision to leave me, and spent very little time trying to get her to reflect on her situation and not make any rash decisions. Instead, they welcomed her into their group (which consisted of a lot of divorced adulterers), and were eager to help her move on....
> 
> And before long, my wife was reintroduced with, and started sleeping with, some loser a$$hole she went to high school with.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, my anger at the betrayal was slowly turning to sadness and depression. I thought about moving in with my parents but instead got a townhome so my kids could at least have their own space when they were with me.
> 
> After 24 years, my life had taken a turn I could have never imagined. I felt like a failure, I mourned my old life, I missed seeing my kids every day, and I missed my wife. Unlike my wife, I was visibly upset by the breakup. I didn’t see it as partytime. I saw it as the worst point in my life.
> 
> I slipped into a really bad depression.
> 
> I began missing hours and days at work. I’d cry until I felt like I was going to die. Trying to hold myself together while my kids were present was agonizing and not always successful. I became withdrawn- even from my parents and siblings. I stopped sleeping and eating. I thought I was going crazy and all I could think was *“I GOTTA GET MY WIFE BACK!”*
> 
> But she had moved on. She (now) says that she never felt anything for the OM. That it was just sex (of which they had plenty of- but according to my wife, wasn’t good). However, despite not feeling anything for this other guy (I call bullsh!t), whenever I asked her to come back to me, she would tell me that she no longer loved me and that I needed to stop talking about reconciliation. But I couldn’t think of anything else that would help make my pain go away.
> 
> After a couple more months of agonizing pain, including watching my wife pawn-off our children during her custody time so she could go [email protected] in Las Vegas, I was still not deterred from trying to get her back. I was obsessed and consumed with it. I tried to find/create every opportunity to meet with her- which she would almost always deny, unless it was in a public place. But I had no shame. I would sob and beg no matter where we met (once even in the middle of a crowded fast food restaurant).
> 
> Then one day I asked her to meet me to discuss the children (the only ploy I had to get her to agree), and she agreed to meet me at my townhome.
> 
> *Immediately my sensors went up.* She had never agreed to meet at my house before. I knew at that moment something was different. Sensing an opportunity, I took my kids to my parents’ house, so we could be alone.
> 
> When she came to my place, I quickly turned the conversation from the kids, to my desire to R. I asked her, “Why can’t we be together? Is it because of your _boyfriend_”
> I had always contemptuously referred to the OM as her “_boyfriend_” and she had always ignored it in the past. But this time, she replied, “He’s not my boyfriend.”
> 
> *AHHH!!! This was the moment I was waiting for. Finally, a hint of trouble in paradise. *
> 
> I began to pour my heart out and moved from a separate couch, to grab her hand and kneel in front of the couch where she sat. She didn’t move away, so I advanced. She unconvincingly attempted to continue the conversation until I’d advanced to the point where we were finally engaged in a passionate kiss.
> 
> *I’d never felt such passion, elation, release, and relief in my life.*
> 
> I took her into the bedroom and we made love.
> 
> From that moment, I was in a fog.
> 
> My appetite to have her was beyond intense. For the next couple of weeks, I could think of nothing other than having sex with my wife, and I created every opportunity to do so. She tried to hold strong to the bullsh!t reasons that she left me, but with the OM having dumped her a week earlier, she stopped believing her own bullsh!t and gave in to the passion of our reconnection.
> 
> On the third week, we told the kids, and she moved in.
> 
> Though I felt as though a huge weight had been lifted, unfortunately, the reconnection did not bring an end to my pain. The excruciating pain of her [email protected] another man was still there, and the emotional hurt and humiliation was intense. As a result, many nights, after making love, we’d fall into heated, passionate, intense discussions that lead to arguments and crying (and sometimes, more sex).
> 
> I called her names and kicked her out several times, only to run after her (once down the street, in my underwear, w/an erection!).
> 
> I’ve been f’ed-up sexually. At first, I didn’t know it existed (or that there is actually a term for it), but now I recognize that I suffer from hysterical bonding. Even now, almost a year from our R, the desire to have sex with my wife is all consuming. But at the same time, I have to continually fight the images in my head of her [email protected] another man.
> 
> The fact that my wife is very sexual helps, because she never turns me down. She can hypnotize me with the way she touches me. This is great, until I start thinking, “GOD!!! Did she do this with him!?!?!”
> *Then I want to die. *
> 
> Do you have any idea how horrifying it is to think of another man’s [email protected] inside your wife while you’re making love to her?!?!!! Sometimes these thoughts will cause me to not be able to achieve, or to lose my erection (something that NEVER happened before her affair).
> 
> I’m obsessed with doing things sexually with my wife that I feel she didn’t do with him. Once I intentionally- without warning- came on her face. And though I know she doesn’t like it, I need her to swallow my cum, and I fantasize about taking her anally. These are all things I’m pretty sure she didn’t do with him. And I need them, because I need to feel like there are things that she has only given to me.
> 
> The visions and the humiliation can sometime (often) be too much to bear. There literally is *NOT* a single minute in the day that her affair is completely out of my mind. It’s exhausting, and I’m exhausted.
> 
> But I love her. I love her, and I’m in pain.
> *But the pain needs to end.* The pain of being without her is excruciating (I’ve lived it.). But the pain of the thought of her sleeping with someone else, and the pain of humiliation can be completely debilitating.
> 
> I don’t know what to do….
> 
> On a positive note:
> When my wife told _the Cun+s_ about our reconciliation, the lead _Cun+_ called out-of-state to my wife’s dad (hoping to cause trouble) and took it upon herself to inform him that my wife had moved back with me. Whatever _the Cun+_ told him backfired and he told my wife that he would support whatever she decided. Not surprisingly, at the same time, _the Cun+_ was also telling my oldest son (who was estranged to me during most of our separation) that he shouldn’t come home.
> The combination of these two instances was enough for my wife to finally recognize and accept how manipulative and undermining the _Cun+s_ really are.
> And finally.... they are now out of our lives.​
> Thanks to anyone who hung in and read all of this. I don’t know if having all this info changes any of the opinions of those who have responded so far, but I just had to get it off my chest.
> 
> I don’t know what to do next….


That's quite the story. You really had me going for a while. Bye.


----------



## 6301

Friend. You could have saved yourself a whole lot of anguish and heartache by just moving on.

In my opinion, your not better off. If it was me, I would seek a lawyer, file slap her with the papers but not before I went on line and inform every friend and family member of my intentions and seek custody of the kids.


----------



## GusPolinski

needrelief said:


> I hear what you all are saying about leaving out of self-respect. But because the specifics of my situation are so “unique” (yeah, I know, everyone thinks their situation is unique), I think a lot more detail is in order. My problem actually involves a lot more than just humiliation….
> Also, it’s not my intention to paint my wife in a bad light, but its hard not to do so when speaking of things from my (angry, hurt, dazed) perspective.
> Hold on, this gets very LONG, convoluted and explicitly graphic towards the end....
> I’m new to _Talk About Marriage_, so I apologize if this post breaks any rules.
> 
> As a side note:
> When I mentioned joking about a coworker’s misfortune- that was several years ago. I was in my late 20s. I was young and naïve, and I assure you it was not done with malice or contempt. It was done with ignorance. Even before it happened to me, I would never have been so insensitive within the last 15 years….
> Also, no one around me now has outwardly made fun of, or mocked me. Thank God, everyone I’ve come into direct contact with has been very supportive.​
> Here goes.
> 
> I've been married for 18 years and with my wife for 24 years. My whole adult life…. (I’m 44)
> I love her and have devoted my life to her and my family. I don't know how to do anything else.
> 
> Last year, my wife had an affair after filing for divorce. So I guess technically, she didn't “cheat” But we were still married, and the divorce was not something I wanted. And there was also a very complex non-sexual betrayal on her part, prior to her filing for divorce- which led to the PA.
> 
> This, compounded with the quickness of the PA- without attempt at R until after the PA had ended- takes away any “brownie point” my wife gets for not [email protected] until after filing paperwork.
> 
> Her friends and family were very supportive of her divorcing me and of the new relationship. I believe this had a lot to do with her initial betrayal- which involved another family (lets call them _the Cun+s_) who were overstepping their bounds with my family.
> 
> About a year and a half ago, I recognized that _the Cun+s_ were not good for my family and distance was needed between them and us. At this time, there was no large problem between my wife and me. However, when I tried to get _the Cun+s_ out of our lives, my wife didn’t agree. These people had helped us in the past and my wife felt a bond with them. But I was emphatic, that they were a problem. So after _the Cun+s_ were told they could no longer be in our lives, my wife fell into a six-month funk where she didn’t talk to me. I was angry, hurt and felt betrayed that my wife didn’t acknowledge how manipulative and undermining _the Cun+s_ were to our (especially my) relationship with our children, so I didn’t go out of my way to talk to my wife either.
> 
> We went on living in the same house, without any real contact for a good four months. Every once in a while, we’d argue. She’d say we need counseling. I’d say,
> “Ok, but before couples counseling, I want you to go to individual counseling for a month….”
> My rational was that she had other issues she needed to work thru (why else would she be so invested with these other people, at the detriment to the relationship with her husband and children).
> 
> She didn’t want to do the month of individual counseling, so after a horrible trip to Disneyland, the next day, I got a call after work, and she told me to meet her somewhere to talk.
> 
> She then told me she was leaving and until she got her own place, she and the kids would be staying *WITH THE CUN+S!*
> 
> I became incensed! I couldn’t believe she was going directly into the lion’s den and taking my cubs! *What a complete betrayal! *What kind of woman would jeopardize her children’s relationship with their father by moving them in with people who blatantly undermined her and her husband’s authority?
> 
> I felt completely betrayed and told her that this was a deal-breaker. She could come back home or go anywhere else, but as long as she stayed with _the Cun+s_, it was a complete betrayal and she was choosing them over me….
> 
> She chose them…. and started divorce proceedings three weeks later.
> 
> The quick exit without warning, the quick divorce filing, and the contemptuous way she spoke to me all seemed the actions of an immature person reacting to not getting her way, or of a person enticed by the prospect of else something.
> 
> During the time she stayed with _the Cun+s_, she made no attempts at R, and no real attempts to actually find a permanent place for her and my kids. She lost her job, and with all the extra time on her hands, she put all her efforts into partying with friends. These friends were all also friends, family, or someway connected with _the Cun+s_ so they of course thought I was an a$$hole. As a result, they were very supportive of my wife’s decision to leave me, and spent very little time trying to get her to reflect on her situation and not make any rash decisions. Instead, they welcomed her into their group (which consisted of a lot of divorced adulterers), and were eager to help her move on....
> 
> And before long, my wife was reintroduced with, and started sleeping with, some loser a$$hole she went to high school with.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, my anger at the betrayal was slowly turning to sadness and depression. I thought about moving in with my parents but instead got a townhome so my kids could at least have their own space when they were with me.
> 
> After 24 years, my life had taken a turn I could have never imagined. I felt like a failure, I mourned my old life, I missed seeing my kids every day, and I missed my wife. Unlike my wife, I was visibly upset by the breakup. I didn’t see it as partytime. I saw it as the worst point in my life.
> 
> I slipped into a really bad depression.
> 
> I began missing hours and days at work. I’d cry until I felt like I was going to die. Trying to hold myself together while my kids were present was agonizing and not always successful. I became withdrawn- even from my parents and siblings. I stopped sleeping and eating. I thought I was going crazy and all I could think was *“I GOTTA GET MY WIFE BACK!”*
> 
> But she had moved on. She (now) says that she never felt anything for the OM. That it was just sex (of which they had plenty of- but according to my wife, wasn’t good). However, despite not feeling anything for this other guy (I call bullsh!t), whenever I asked her to come back to me, she would tell me that she no longer loved me and that I needed to stop talking about reconciliation. But I couldn’t think of anything else that would help make my pain go away.
> 
> After a couple more months of agonizing pain, including watching my wife pawn-off our children during her custody time so she could go [email protected] in Las Vegas, I was still not deterred from trying to get her back. I was obsessed and consumed with it. I tried to find/create every opportunity to meet with her- which she would almost always deny, unless it was in a public place. But I had no shame. I would sob and beg no matter where we met (once even in the middle of a crowded fast food restaurant).
> 
> Then one day I asked her to meet me to discuss the children (the only ploy I had to get her to agree), and she agreed to meet me at my townhome.
> 
> *Immediately my sensors went up.* She had never agreed to meet at my house before. I knew at that moment something was different. Sensing an opportunity, I took my kids to my parents’ house, so we could be alone.
> 
> When she came to my place, I quickly turned the conversation from the kids, to my desire to R. I asked her, “Why can’t we be together? Is it because of your _boyfriend_”
> I had always contemptuously referred to the OM as her “_boyfriend_” and she had always ignored it in the past. But this time, she replied, “He’s not my boyfriend.”
> 
> *AHHH!!! This was the moment I was waiting for. Finally, a hint of trouble in paradise. *
> 
> I began to pour my heart out and moved from a separate couch, to grab her hand and kneel in front of the couch where she sat. She didn’t move away, so I advanced. She unconvincingly attempted to continue the conversation until I’d advanced to the point where we were finally engaged in a passionate kiss.
> 
> *I’d never felt such passion, elation, release, and relief in my life.*
> 
> I took her into the bedroom and we made love.
> 
> From that moment, I was in a fog.
> 
> My appetite to have her was beyond intense. For the next couple of weeks, I could think of nothing other than having sex with my wife, and I created every opportunity to do so. She tried to hold strong to the bullsh!t reasons that she left me, but with the OM having dumped her a week earlier, she stopped believing her own bullsh!t and gave in to the passion of our reconnection.
> 
> On the third week, we told the kids, and she moved in.
> 
> Though I felt as though a huge weight had been lifted, unfortunately, the reconnection did not bring an end to my pain. The excruciating pain of her [email protected] another man was still there, and the emotional hurt and humiliation was intense. As a result, many nights, after making love, we’d fall into heated, passionate, intense discussions that lead to arguments and crying (and sometimes, more sex).
> 
> I called her names and kicked her out several times, only to run after her (once down the street, in my underwear, w/an erection!).
> 
> I’ve been f’ed-up sexually. At first, I didn’t know it existed (or that there is actually a term for it), but now I recognize that I suffer from hysterical bonding. Even now, almost a year from our R, the desire to have sex with my wife is all consuming. But at the same time, I have to continually fight the images in my head of her [email protected] another man.
> 
> The fact that my wife is very sexual helps, because she never turns me down. She can hypnotize me with the way she touches me. This is great, until I start thinking, “GOD!!! Did she do this with him!?!?!”
> *Then I want to die. *
> 
> Do you have any idea how horrifying it is to think of another man’s [email protected] inside your wife while you’re making love to her?!?!!! Sometimes these thoughts will cause me to not be able to achieve, or to lose my erection (something that NEVER happened before her affair).
> 
> I’m obsessed with doing things sexually with my wife that I feel she didn’t do with him. Once I intentionally- without warning- came on her face. And though I know she doesn’t like it, I need her to swallow my cum, and I fantasize about taking her anally. These are all things I’m pretty sure she didn’t do with him. And I need them, because I need to feel like there are things that she has only given to me.
> 
> The visions and the humiliation can sometime (often) be too much to bear. There literally is *NOT* a single minute in the day that her affair is completely out of my mind. It’s exhausting, and I’m exhausted.
> 
> But I love her. I love her, and I’m in pain.
> *But the pain needs to end.* The pain of being without her is excruciating (I’ve lived it.). But the pain of the thought of her sleeping with someone else, and the pain of humiliation can be completely debilitating.
> 
> I don’t know what to do….
> 
> On a positive note:
> When my wife told _the Cun+s_ about our reconciliation, the lead _Cun+_ called out-of-state to my wife’s dad (hoping to cause trouble) and took it upon herself to inform him that my wife had moved back with me. Whatever _the Cun+_ told him backfired and he told my wife that he would support whatever she decided. Not surprisingly, at the same time, _the Cun+_ was also telling my oldest son (who was estranged to me during most of our separation) that he shouldn’t come home.
> The combination of these two instances was enough for my wife to finally recognize and accept how manipulative and undermining the _Cun+s_ really are.
> And finally.... they are now out of our lives.​
> Thanks to anyone who hung in and read all of this. I don’t know if having all this info changes any of the opinions of those who have responded so far, but I just had to get it off my chest.
> 
> *I don’t know what to do next….*


Divorce.


----------



## lifeistooshort

needrelief said:


> Yeah….I try to wrap my head around that type of thought, but the humiliation is still there.
> 
> The problem is…. I know how I think. If it was someone else, and I was looking in from the outside, I would be thinking, "What kind of man is he?" "He couldn't keep his wife satisfied?" "He must be a real jerk for his wife to do that."
> 
> I remember a time in the past- joking with the guys when we found out one of our coworker's wife was sleeping with another guy. The things we said behind his back were awful.
> 
> It's the way guys (a lot of guys) think.
> 
> Now I feel like I'm the laughing-stock.



I don't know anyone who thinks like that. I do however know people that will talk about how pathetic it is that a guy whose wife treats him like this is desperate to hold onto her. Sorry.


----------



## NotLikeYou

I've found that I give my best advice, if I sit back, try to set aside any emotions evoked by reading a post, and imagining that the anguished poster is a very good friend in real life, not an unknowable person somewhere in cyberspace.

I try to ditch the sarcasm and snark, the disbelief at what people subject themselves to, and instead try to write what I would say to that friend, that would ease their torment, or help them make sense out of the buttsecks experience life was giving them at the time.

So, needrelief, when I imagine you as a best-buddy, who has gone through what you have described, done what you have done, tolerated what you have tolerated, and, at the end of all that, your position is that you still want your wife back.....

All I can think is that it would be time to stop being friends with you, because you're too damaged to be healthy to be around, and there are limits to friendships, too.

I guess maybe you should look into some Individual Counseling, yourself. You need it a lot more than your wife does, man.....


----------



## Personal

Divorce!


----------



## Decorum

It will always hurt.

There are no words that can be typed on a keyboard in addition to the millions published every year about it that can change that.

Your experience and feelings are very typical, some people take actions to change their lives others like you just live with it. Its your choice.

Your animal brain's desire to posses your wife is overriding your cognitive attempt to forget about it.

This is your new reality, it should decrease in time a bit and depending on how someone deals with it can decrease significantly.

But you have a demon now that will haunt you for the rest of your life.

Your wife's unremorseful behavior will add coals to the fire.

You can only take responsibility for you now. There is no going back only moving forward into the new reality.

Yeah it sucks.

I wish you well. I'm sorry.


----------



## JCD

So...you sold your soul to fvck your wife. And you wonder why you feel diminished?

Here is what I am NOT reading: her reaction. Because according to everything I read, she was DONE with you. Period. Put a fork in you.

Then you crawled and begged enough to engage her pity. 

You have neglected to indicate anything which states she is HAPPY with this new state of affairs. That she has shown any remorse.

The only thing she is doing is having sex with you (for...reasons...undefined reasons)

And that she didn't like the C's to mess with HER family! Your family...it's all good! Her family, verboten! Messing with you? Hey, that's why she left in the first place, right?

So...what has she shown in the way of remorse? This is a key question.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Sorry to say you have good reason to feel humiliated. And no, I'm not talking about what your wife did. It's your own actions.


----------



## Racer

Co-dependent. Seriously deep into it. Your entire world revolves around her and she knows it. You really need IC. Break the co-dependent and you'll see her in a whole new light. It won't be easy; Your entire adult life has been with her. Think of it as losing your right arm and having to change your life to adjust to being left handed. It sucks, but you really need to saw that gangrene arm off...


----------



## CH

Racer said:


> Co-dependent. Seriously deep into it. Your entire world revolves around her and she knows it. You really need IC. Break the co-dependent and you'll see her in a whole new light. It won't be easy; Your entire adult life has been with her. Think of it as losing your right arm and having to change your life to adjust to being left handed. It sucks, but you really need to saw that gangrene arm off...


That's what I was thinking, he's screwed.....Nothing she does (short of piling the dirt on top of him herself) is going to make him leave her.


----------



## treyvion

CH said:


> That's what I was thinking, he's screwed.....Nothing she does (short of piling the dirt on top of him herself) is going to make him leave her.


A good strategy for eliminating humiliation is to remove the ones from your circle which do this to you. This would be your current spouse..

Another stategy is humiliating them equally strongly, it might not be a moral decision, but it is one that many times psychologically does balance things out.

As long as you depend on this one for parts of your self view, confidence, support, reassurance, you will get what she feeds you.


----------



## Healer

I was only humiliated when I was with her after discovering her affair. After I left her, that went away, and I told and will tell anyone what she did. She's the skank, not you.


----------



## FormerSelf

That is a major case of hysterical bonding. It happens when we weigh the pain and consequences between spouse leaving versus pain of having them stay, but our rationale is overridden by panic, fear, abandonment...the desire for things to go back as they were.

Your wife MAY be over her affair, but she had already "went there" and flipped the affair switch...puncturing holes in her soul and conscience, so she is an emotional mess with really no gameplan of recovery. All she knows is that her fantasy didn't play out like she liked and you were her safety...and allowing your to pound away at her in the bedroom is probably a means of keeping a roof over her head.

But now we need to consider your safety. Infidelity is a deep trauma...and when our spouse cheats, we feel pain UNIMAGINEABLE. Taking your spouse back may have felt like a safe move, but her unresolved actions keep triggering your safety...as not only are you hypervigilant with fears that it will happen again...but you also are replaying what she may have done with this man over and over. It is maddening...so part of you wants to show your dominance, your ownership...doing whatever you can sexually to make a permanent mark on her, but at the time time, you are carrying extreme rage and hurt and anger about this.

My opinion? Infidelity is ONE thing. Many of us have gone through this and even reconciled...but it takes a long time putting the bloody pieces together that were blown apart, not to mention digging deeper past the cheating itself and doing some analysis of how things went wrong. It is achievable.

However, blatant publicizing is an another things altogether. Yes, it's embarrassing when our friends and family find out we have been cheated on, but when a spouse is brazen in her activities, so deep in the fog, that they care not if the whole world knows...that is entirely separate issue. Badmouthing, belittling, and anything untoward about you in speech or in writing...that is betrayal of the utmost degree.

Many people have suggested divorce...and you are certainly justified to do so. I would also suggest that you are not in your right frame of mind. It sounds like you are trying your best to control the situation and even control your spouse. Let it go. You need to let things be as they are and not be so eager to step up to the plate to fix all of this. I would also stop any sexual activity and start erecting some boundaries where you take the focus off of your wife...and that your wife won't be so corralled and hovered over. She needs space and time for her to start realizing the destruction she caused. She will never get to that place if you are lording over her, demanding an explanation and constantly f-ing her brains out.

Neither of you are in a healthy frame of mind and unhealthy people make unhealthy decisions.

I agree with the suggestion of looking at codependency....and reading the book, Boundaries. You need to slow down and accept that this all happened...and she needs to accept her actions. From there, you need to decide what to do.


----------



## needrelief

I appreciate all the constructive replies you guys have provided. Many of them are harsh and hard to read, but I guess I need to read them.
I agree with you guys who say my wife hasn't paid any consequences. This probably is a huge contributor to my rage- as it attacks my sense of fairness.
Understand, my wife does express that she feels bad about what happened, but I can't help but feel that she doesn't grasp the severity- and that makes me angry also.
I always try to hold back from talking about the affair or blowing up, but ultimately (a little more than once a week) I'll crack, and we'll have heated discussions. Sometimes I'll REALLY crack, and call her names. If she gets angry or argues back, I just see that as further proof that she's not remorseful.
I know I'm not being fair, but when I lay awake at night and reflect on this, I believe that the reason I do this is because I'm giving opportunities and creating opportunities for my wife to display the type of remorse that I feel her earth-shattering actions call for. But it never comes.
I hate feeling manipulative, vindictive, or as though I'm continually beating her down, but when I think about it, I feel as though my wife has not gone out if her way to show remorse. I feel like she hasn't taken full ownership of the job of fixing us. And it makes me angry.
When I'm not angry, I just feel sad. And all I can think about is how to fix things without breaking apart my family. I seriously consider moving away, but we are such a financial mess right now that moving really isn't possible.
I've been to several counselors and therapists. But I get so tired of talking about my situation. It's enough that I think about it all the time. It seems so self-indulgent. And even with my therapist, I feel as though they don't truly get what I'm going through. As a result I don't feel as though they're helping much. When I thought I was getting a divorce, I went to divorce and separation group therapy. But now that I'm in the middle of reconciling, that group doesn't really apply to me anymore. I came here to find men that are in situations similar to mine. I appreciate all help that any of the women on this message board offer. But I really feel that only other men can truly understand what I'm going through. What women go through is just as awful, but it's just different. At least, that's what my head thinks.
What is it that I need to hear from my wife, or what does she have to do, to make me feel better? I hate telling her what I need because then I feel like she's only doing it to shut me up. I crave so much for her to get an epiphany, and give me the relief that she owes me.
But even I don't know what that is. What is it that I need for my wife?
I'm just not ready to give up yetâ¦


----------



## JCD

Okay. Here is her perspective:

For reasons I don't understand, your marriage was already on shaky ground. You need to own that fact. It wasn't the 'C's who were the only problem in your marriage. They were merely the catalyst.

So she left. As stated, she was DONE! She had you served with divorce papers. And then, out of anger, hostility and even a touch of malice, she decided it was time to burn the bridges.

That 'seems' to be what that blatant 'kissy face' crap was. She wanted to make sure there was no going back! She engaged in acts beyond the Pale. And (ahem) any man with a decent sense of self respect would not go chasing her...to her mind.

Except she did not properly gauge (being charitable) how much you were wiling to sacrifice for the idea of 'kids and family'. (Please God tell me it wasn't because you were just after sex).

So a couple of things happened (again, just analyzing from what you told us)

1) The party was over. Beau wasn't all that interesting. Not a keeper.

2) The C's overstepped their bounds and whatever influence they had went away.

3) I am guessing she got a bit of push back in life. A few friends saying 'how could you do that?' sort of thing. Somehow she got a bit of outside perspective.

But let's be clear: the reasons she left were still in the front of her mind...but you were crawling to get back with her and there were the kids and...

So...she feels she is in some ways giving you a gift by trying again. She knows what she did was wrong...but her actions were based on the fact she never ever intended to be back with you EVER. They were not wrong in that context. As a single woman (you were *served*), she was 'free to date' in her mind. That she was also malicious is what she feels bad about, not the dating. Or a smattering of sympathy for your obvious pain.

That is part of what is keeping her from showing sufficient remorse. She is still angry about 'stuff' that has her upset. 

But lets check the checklist:

You won't move

You won't divorce her

You don't want to inflict consequences because you want the relationship to 'be what it used to be'...and you want her to continue to accede to your sexual overtures. You seem to think you can screw your way back into her heart. (If you do, you'll be the first)

So, mapping out what you won't do, there is very little you have left us to offer except for 'there there' and pats on the shoulder.

If you want to vent, by all means, do so. However, few people make fluffy stuffed Badger toys. It might be our tendency to rip at underbellies. So I am not so good at the 'there theres'.

You two need serious couple therapy.


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## Fozzy

This is brutal, but accurate. She doesn't feel bad about what she did, that's the reason she doesn't appear remorseful.

She didn't come crawling back to you, you crawled back to her. Over and over. Once the OM had kicked her to the curb, you were the easy plan B. Do you think if the OM hadn't ended things with her she'd still have come back to you that day? The fact that you were falling all over yourself to bring her back tells her that she doesn't really NEED to be remorseful about anything.

The picture you've painted of this woman is one who values the advice and judgment of others over her own spouse, to the point of leaving her spouse. A woman who values time with a fling relationship partner over taking care of her own children. A woman who acts in the most publicly vindictive way possible. These were all her decisions and her actions because THAT'S WHO SHE IS. Sometimes my friend, a leopard doesn't change it's spots.


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## Faithful123

Go get some IC there are definitely some CBT that can assist in dealing with humiliation, trust me I've been there. That said, once that is done you are likely going to be much stronger and able to actually deal with your wife on a level playing field. In the meantime, as silly as this sounds, you need to feel the humiliation, in small doses, expose yourself to it carefully. Take your time doing it, but as you increase your exposure it will become easier to handle. I suggest getting a therapist to a manage it for you, but it is very fixable. Good luck.


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## needrelief

…a bit more information and answers to some questions:

When I ask my wife how long she was unhappy before she left, she says: approximately 6-4 months. When I hear this it makes me angry. She based her decision to leave on six months of difficult time. What about the 20+ years of happy times?

I know the Cs weren't the only problem. Other than the Cs, a few things that were going on around the time:

My dad had a stroke and I was spending a lot of time at my parents' house.
My oldest son stopped caring about school and grades and started becoming belligerent and defiant.(Resulting in one physical altercation)
I was diagnosed with prediabetes and started working out regularly (at 4 AM so as not to infringe on family time).
She started a new job.​
I'm sure these are also factors that led to her decision to leave.

Its saddening when I think all these things were things that I had no control over, and I was reacting to. But for some reason she blamed me.

She says another reason why she left, is because I'm controlling. When I ask how I'm controlling, the only concrete example she can give is: I always controlled where and when we took vacations....

*WTF!?!?!
*

In truth, when she says I was "controlling", I believe she's mistaking being a hands-on parent for being controlling.

Let me explain:

For example- A lot of times, when I would tell my kids to do their homework, or if I tried to establish a routine (such as a regular practice time for tennis), the kids would give me pushback. And they would complain. And I would become insistent. Causing tension in the house.

Because my wife grew up having no rule in the house, this was a very foreign to her. As a result, she saw my creating rules and restrictions for the kids as being controlling. And because it caused tension in the house, she blamed me.

This tension in the house was nonexistent in the early (first 10) years of our marriage because the children were young and didn't belligerently question my authority. She's never really said if she agrees with my theory of her idea of me being controlling. But she hasn't offered me an alternative.

My desire to get my wife back was not due to sex.

Though I did want to have sex with her, the feeling was not nearly as intense as it became after we reconciled. However, during my time of trying to win her back, I was doing a lot of reading on the Internet. When trying to figure out how she could leave me, I came across several articles regarding bonding. The articles mentioned the importance of a sexual relationship for a woman to feel bonded to a man.

By the time she left, we hadn't had sex in 6-4 months.

The idea of bonding made, and makes, sense to me. As a result, my overwhelming desire to have sex probably stems from my belief that it will keep her bonded to me.

Because this mess has left me so ****ed up, there's no way I'm taking divorce completely off the table. When I asked for advice on this message board, divorce seemed like the obvious answer. I was hoping someone could give me a different answer. Something that would allow me to stay with the woman I've loved for the last 20+ years. Something that wouldn't leave my family (Especially kids) completely destroyed (as though it hasn't been already).

Also, I didn't say that I don't want to move. I actually would love to move far away- as everything I come in contact with is a reminder. It's just that we are truly in a financial mess, and moving isn't a realistic option.

What consequences do you guys suggest I insist upon? What consequences will make me feel better?

I read Road Scholar's post (all of it!) here on Talk About Marriage, and like the idea of having my wife speak to my parents and her mother. She feels bad about leaving and not talking to my mother before or after the decision. And she agrees that her mother was less than supportive, in a motherly, advice-giving way. Her mother instead acted like one those people who "didn't want to get involved". And told her "whatever makes you happy."
Talking to our parents would be very hard for her, Maybe doing that will show me a level of commitment and remorse?

As I said in an earlier post, humiliation isn't the only issue.

I've actually tried CBT and IC to try to get over the humiliation and mind movies. But for some reason, my brain can't let go of them. I don't know what to do, but I'm hoping that if my wife shows the "correct" level of remorse, i'll be at enough ease that my brain will start to let go of the humiliation and mind movies.

I don't know what the [email protected] I'm doing.

I just want my life back.


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## lifeistooshort

What you describe is a woman who doesn't consider you all that important. She'll keep you around if there's nobody better, but you're not that valuable to her. And the reason she doesn't feel worse is that she thinks you deserved it.... as someone else pointed out she went out of her way to stick things in your face. That's someone who has contempt for you. I don't think you can move forward until you feel valuable to her, and taking divorce off the table creates a situation where she doesn't have to contemplate life without you. IMO, until that happens she's not going to value you and you're not going heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeful Cynic

needrelief said:


> I just want my life back.


That's the big problem there. You CAN'T EVER get that life back. It involved a wife you didn't believe could cheat on you or leave you.

What you have to do now is forge a new life, with the pieces you have at hand. These include a wife who is capable of cheating on you and leaving you, and people knowing all about how she did this. You can keep those pieces and fit them in with all their rough painful edges, or you can toss them away and rebuild without them, filling in the gaps.

It's hard to get over the hurdle of wishing and trying to make things magically go back to the way they were. Going backwards can't be done, and once you accept that, then you can start moving forwards.


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## JCD

Hopeful Cynic said:


> That's the big problem there. You CAN'T EVER get that life back. It involved a wife you didn't believe could cheat on you or leave you.
> 
> What you have to do now is forge a new life, with the pieces you have at hand. These include a wife who is capable of cheating on you and leaving you, and people knowing all about how she did this. You can keep those pieces and fit them in with all their rough painful edges, or you can toss them away and rebuild without them, filling in the gaps.
> 
> It's hard to get over the hurdle of wishing and trying to make things magically go back to the way they were. Going backwards can't be done, and once you accept that, then you can start moving forwards.


:iagree:


She has shown herself to be hurtful and vindictive...and you want to grab that viper and hold it to your bosom again. Think hard on that.

But you want an alternative.

Here is an alternative. It is based on ongoing affairs but will also work in this case where one spouse obviously feels pretty damned secure in her relationship with someone who will crawl after her. That makes a person feel pretty damned secure!

***

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
*13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.*
14. *Don't sit around waiting on your spouse *- get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16.* If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.*
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. *Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.*31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. *Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared*.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.

**

Do not think this will 'fix' your marriage. It will help you grow as a person. Yes, more emotionally distant...but at this point, you *REALLY NEED TO!*

Your relationship has been forever changed and you need to give her a hard look as well as look hard at yourself.

I get not destroying the kids is important and worth sacrificing over. I actually applaud this impulse.


So here is more free BS internet advice:

You tell her: "I intend on moving as soon as it is fiscally feasible. You have ruined this place and these people for me and I want to get away from them as quickly as humanly possible. You and the kids are welcome to come too."

She needs to see blow back.

Now the onus of 'fixing things' as I said before, is on her.

Separate your finances. Pay your bills as before...just don't give HER access or control of your money. Hand her a check. If she remonstrates with you, shrug and walk away.

Start to 'fix this fiscal train wreck'. You can actually FIX that. You cannot FIX her. Whether you are together or not, having the fiscal house in order is an improvement.

DO NOT start to relent on the 180 if she waves some sexual offerings at you. This is a long game.

She broke it. She gets to fix it. And she needs to convince you not to move if that is important to her. How she does that isn't your problem.

Fixing this isn't your problem. You just live. Day by day. Be courteous. Take care of the NEEDS of the household. Carve out your own identity outside of kids and wife. Get a 'run for the hills' fund set up for yourself as well.

This isn't mind games. It's protection.


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## 2ntnuf

Only provide her with the bare minimum of financing for her needs only. Let her find the money somewhere else for her recreational activities. 

You have to stop caring about her. You have to treat her like a wart that you will have removed if the salve doesn't make it go away.

My guess is you are scared out of your wits to live alone. You don't even know where to start. She and the children are/were your whole life. You had/have nothing outside of that little circle of life, that is meaningful to you. 

Find and pursue those things, even if one of them is another woman. Yes, I typed that. You have nothing at the moment. Don't give two ****s about them. Give only what you must by law to keep them going. Reads like your children don't respect you much, either. In the right circumstances, you would be treated like a king, but not with this woman. You won't prove to her how much you are worth. She doesn't value what you have been giving.

ETA: It may only be that she just doesn't value what you offer because it's coming from a man she doesn't respect. You can't earn her respect if she doesn't want you to try.


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## GusPolinski

lifeistooshort said:


> What you describe is a woman who doesn't consider you all that important. She'll keep you around if there's nobody better, but you're not that valuable to her. And the reason she doesn't feel worse is that she thinks you deserved it.... as someone else pointed out she went out of her way to stick things in your face. That's someone who has contempt for you. I don't think you can move forward until you feel valuable to her, and taking divorce off the table creates a situation where she doesn't have to contemplate life without you. IMO, until that happens she's not going to value you and you're not going heal.


^This is spot on.


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## AliceA

treyvion said:


> A good strategy for eliminating humiliation is to remove the ones from your circle which do this to you. This would be your current spouse..


I'm not so sure he can so easily eliminate his humiliation as I think most of it comes from shame at his own actions rather than hers.


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## treyvion

breeze said:


> I'm not so sure he can so easily eliminate his humiliation as I think most of it comes from shame at his own actions rather than hers.


One controllable action is having to deal with the person in the first place. The one who betrays you is a huge reminder and it's really hard to have any boundaries or respect, when they are adiminant to holding onto their position, like MOST PEOPLE WILL.

It's best to get them out of your ear, out of your heart, out of your priorities.

To hear them, see them, look out for them is a constant diminishment in light of what they did to you.


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## BookOfJob

I don't know about you guys, but what I've seen from NR's posts seem to be clear as crystal to me. (It's easier to see for me as a stranger, of course, but I bet it is hard to see from within). What NR has described is clearly within the storyline out of a cheater's script.



needrelief said:


> ....
> She based her decision to leave on six months of difficult time. What about the 20+ years of happy times?


This is the jolt of oxytocin of infidelity. I don't have a crystal ball on hand now, but can you track back to way before 6 months when you might have a hint of suspicion? In your opinion, when do you think the infidelity started? 6 months ago?



needrelief said:


> .....
> When i asked for advice on this message board, divorce seemed like the obvious answer. I was hoping someone could give me a different answer.





needrelief said:


> .....
> What consequences do you guys suggest i insist upon? What consequences will make me feel better?


I am including quotes from you because this is part of that long list of questions now that you have. I struggled with a long list of question back then too. However, finally I concluded that the one thing that had to happen was the 'remorse' part. Everything else will hinge upon that. When in my view I judged that it never happened, even during the divorce proceedings, I had my answers. I always thought that we could reconcile, even after a divorce, even if not legally. To me, the paper meant nothing at that point.

When R was in my plans, I think a lot about what will become of me as a person in the future. How I will react and how I will handle conflict in the home. That was part of the tough questions I asked myself.



hopeful cynic said:


> that's the big problem there. You can't ever get that life back.....
> 
> What you have to do now is forge a new life, with the pieces you have at hand.


I think you should not go back to that life. The way forward, R or D, you have to improve upon your own character. That's why I don't think you want to go back to that life.

I wish you the best in your journeys ahead.


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## warlock07

you humiliated yourself by the way you took her back. You said you recognized were desperate and panicked when you dud that.

What changed now? calling her names once in a while?

The way you begged her back was beyond pathetic. 

Just change the narrative to your wife's POV and examine what happened. 

You cannot respect yourself.

She cannot respect you either.

*She wouldn't even meet you until she got dumped!!!! the guy she was married for 20 years*.


No one who will hear either side of the story will say you did the right, respectful thing or that "you fought for the family".

You mentioned that she also lost her job. Did she also need you financially.



> Something that would allow me to stay with the woman I've loved for the last 20+ years. Something that wouldn't leave my family (Especially kids) completely destroyed (as though it hasn't been already).



............



Are you scared that if you leave her, she will start [email protected] a new guy in a couple of day?

What kind of life is that?


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## Mr The Other

needrelief said:


> Since my wife's affair, I've been a recluse.
> 
> Because she was angry at me at the time (and as far as she was concerned, our marriage was over), my wife had no shame in exposing her relationship. Everyone we know, knows she [email protected] someone else, including my parents, siblings, and children. She even posed on Facebook with the f'er. So even my long-distance friends and family are aware of her infidelity.
> 
> As a result, I have been thoroughly humiliated.
> 
> I don't know how to get past this and feel comfortable around others again.
> 
> Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


You are humiliating yourself by staying. There is good news in this. If it is you who has the power to humiliate yourself by keeping her rather than getting rid, the power is yours.

You are not happy with the situation at present. She is the one who has to make it right. Tell her how to put it right, if she does not go through with it all, which includes at least being as public in her humble apologies, then get rid.

This is the only way I can see of saving your marriage. Ultimately, a marriage depends on two people making a genuine effort. No-one can make a marriage work on their own. It sounds very simple, but can be hard to accept. You feel responsible for the marriage and you do not feel she is as responsible. It is the major problem in your marraige. 

Take it head on and cure it, from now on, she has to put it right and if she cannot the marraige is dead.


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## Zouz

SIMPLE ,

You need to get new balls ,

Tell her that from now on she has to get your permission to do anything until you forgive her ; 

You enforce all kind of restrictions on her ; even financial ones ; 

she should ask for your permission to go pee.

She accepts she stays ; otherwise , you change the locks and kick her out ( You Own the house at least !! are you ?).

If you can't do any of above .

Burry your head in sand and stop nagging about it .


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## nuclearnightmare

Needrelief:

you mention financial issues. would you then be unable to just move down the street, to a cheap apartment say? better yet are there friends or relatives you could stay with? temporarily and more cheaply? of course the better option is to kick her out, but am assuming that's even more of a challenge.....

J*sus she sounds horrible! GET AWAY FROM HER is your answer. SEPARATE FROM HER. Not seeing her viscious little countenance will probably take the edge off your humiliation in the near term. If my wife did what yours did I certainly would want to hear her perspective on the situation. so that I could then follow up with "F*ck you and your perspective!" I'd then tell her that her breaking her vows to me means that my vows to her have instantly become meaningless. whether I kept them or not. I'll say one more thing that I swear is true - I don't think divorcing her would quite satisfy me. I would need to contemplate what I could do to her that would humiliate her as much as she has humilitated me. I'm not kidding....I'd try to think of something and implement it.

May sound like I'm judging you. I'm really not. I don't doubt it's hard, emotional etc. as for your kids; bottom line is you'll be a better father to them, a better example to them, if you divorce her! Start looking for another partner, for your next 20 years, TODAY! you have a resonable chance of finding someone that loves you more than she does........before Monday


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## couple

While this is a very painful and difficult situation, it's very simple. The 'cost' of continuing this relationship (humiliation, pain and loss of trust) has just risen immensely. At the same time, the benefit (intimacy, commitment, trust, etc) of the relationship has fallen.

Only you can determine of you have the strength and commitment to this relationship to deal with the pain and humiliation that will come with staying by her side. You're right that guys talk exactly like you describe. Every guy's nightmare is their wife getting it from another man so women who betray like this won't get kind words. And women won't think any better of her. While people will look at you with sympathy for what she did to you, many will consider you a fool and a cuckold for staying. Of course you can argue that this is all wrong and many of these people are hypocrites. But it doesn't change the fact that this is going to happen. Are you strong enough and committed enough to this relationship to live like this and not care what people think? Putting the question of whether you should stay or go aside, it takes a special strength of character and thick skin to deal with all of this.


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## vellocet

needrelief said:


> As a result, I have been thoroughly humiliated.
> 
> I don't know how to get past this and feel comfortable around others again.
> 
> Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


Been there done that, completely humiliated myself.

My solution was to leave her. Took my power back.

But, if your desire is to not leave, let me recommend this.

Do something for yourself. Make it your New Year's resolution to hit the gym, work off that frustration and humiliation on the bench press. Start looking good, feel good, etc.

And trust me, if people know she f****d someone else, they aren't looking down on you as inadequate and not worth, they are looking down on her for what she is and did.

So if you start taking care of yourself, people will notice and think, "good for him"


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## chaos

Since *you've chosen* not to end the marriage, then may I suggest that you look deep down inside yourself and realize that it was *your ego* that could not accept the truth that she left you, filed for divorce and engaged in an affair. It was *your ego* that made you beg time and again for her to come back until she did. And now that you have her back, it is *your ego* that once again is bringing up all the damage she caused to you and feeding the resentment until you explode in her face. 

See a pattern here? As much as I detest saying this, your wife is right that *you have to let go* of the past so you can move forward. How can you do this? By *waking up* to the fact that it is *your ego* that was, is, and always will be, your true enemy. Whenever you start feeling miserable over your wife's actions, stop and confront *your ego*. As one of the characters in the movie Revolver said *"the greatest con that [the ego] ever pulled was making you believe that he is you."*.


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## 2ntnuf

Infidelity...it destroys everything good on both sides. Not only does he have to be able to be man enough to decide he doesn't care who that woman was that cheated on him, but he needs to get reacquainted with a new man, the one that his girlfriend(wife) finds attractive and who is the best man he can be. Also, she has to become that new trustworthy desire of his, that has never cheated on him. I guess that means there has to be a huge change in him and her. Is it possible? I think to some extent. Will it be enough? I wonder if they can both change and be new lovers? 

She is changed. She has to change once more. He has not changed enough in a positive direction. Good luck.


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## 2ntnuf

Thought this might help if you think you do have ego issues. It can't hurt to take a look. 

How to Practice Gratitude – Helpful Tips – Unstuck


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## tulsy

Mr The Other said:


> You are humiliating yourself by staying. ....


Exactly.



chaos said:


> Since *you've chosen* not to end the marriage, then may I suggest that you look deep down inside yourself and realize that it was *your ego* that could not accept the truth that she left you, filed for divorce and engaged in an affair. It was *your ego* that made you beg time and again for her to come back until she did. And now that you have her back, it is *your ego* that once again is bringing up all the damage she caused to you and feeding the resentment until you explode in her face.
> 
> See a pattern here? As much as I detest saying this, your wife is right that *you have to let go* of the past so you can move forward. How can you do this? By *waking up* to the fact that it is *your ego* that was, is, and always will be, your true enemy. Whenever you start feeling miserable over your wife's actions, stop and confront *your ego*. As one of the characters in the movie Revolver said *"the greatest con that [the ego] ever pulled was making you believe that he is you."*.


The humiliation is there for a reason.

Inside your head, you are still humiliated by what she did. 
What she did is something you never thought you could ever forgive.
By staying with her, you are agreeing to try to forgive the unforgivable. 
You still can't seem to forgive her.
Honestly, I don't blame you one bit.

In your particular situation, I don't think you can have it both ways, a reconciliation and loss of humility, unless you try to trick yourself or put your head in the sand.

If you choose to stay, you've chosen humiliation. You get exactly what you chose.

You chose humiliation, and you are going to get upset about it when there is a trigger. I think that's pretty understandable...that's your reaction to the reality of the situation.

There is a frame of thought that since you chose to R, you have to let the past transgressions go and move forward. If you can't do that, than you can't accept the humiliation, and you should end the R.

Given how she treated and treats you, I really don't see how you could ever get past the humiliation.


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## shalom_82

Your situation sounds terrible for you. I'm wondering how she went from being so angry/upset and cheating to having a change of heart and reconciling. It sounds like she really went all out to punish you, and personally I think that's wrong to do to people. I'm hoping that counseling can help her with this because if she keeps it up, she may do a lot of damage to her relationships.


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## needrelief

Iâm numb.
Absolutely, ****ing numbâ¦
For over a month Iâve silently been reading all the comments, and dying inside. I never thought such mental anguish was possible.
To be in such a perfectly no-win situation is almost laughable.
Reading advice telling me to âgrow some balls and just leaveâ makes me feel like an alien. To hear such trite advice makes me wonder âdo I experience love differently from other men?â Or am I really just a big *****?
The bluntness and frankness of the comments certainly offers no relief. Instead, the comments stab like a knifeâ¦
I know (at least I hope) most of the comments are intended to provide me with perspective and get me to reflect objectively on my situation.
And I appreciate thatâ¦ mentally.
But emotionallyâ¦
Itâs an unbearable thought to leave a woman whom Iâve loved for my whole life....
Yet itâs an excruciating reality to stay with a woman who hurt me so completelyâ¦


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## chaos

While anti-depressant medication is not a solution to your problems, it may give you a much needed support to weather the emotional turmoil. Maybe you should consider seeing a doctor.


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## shalom_82

I have to say that it takes a lot of courage to put your innermost thoughts on the internet and allow strangers to comment. All sorts of good and bad things will come of it, I'm sure. I'm still warming up to the idea myself, and I know that once I do (as I'm sure that I will) there will be comments that stab me like a knife too. 

I like to think that professionals would handle your/everyone's concerns with more tact and compassion, that you may benefit from finding a local psychologist for a session or two... or more to chat about things. Personally, I've gained a lot of strength, validation and "therapy" in every sense of the word from a couple of psychologists over the years. 

The first time was when my mother died suddenly when I was 19. I saw a therapist every week for a year after that, and my most vivid memories of the experience (as more than a decade has passed since then) is of leaving the office after the hour session with an actual smile on my face. It was a huge thing at the time.

The second time was more recent and when I was generally unsatisfied in my life career and relationship wise. I was pursuing certain things in life that were not panning out over and over again, and I felt defeated and lost and just didn't know if I should go on feeling that way without at least trying to understand it better and do something, anything.

So, besides the above suggestion. I have a few other thoughts/responses to your posts. First, I feel really bad for you. I hope that pity doesn't make you feel worse. Really, I just want to validate you and let you know that what you are going through is really awful and you don't deserve to be treated this way. No one does. 

I'm really curious to understand more about your situation and think that maybe others on here too would be interested in expanding the picture a little bit. It would help them give you advice. With my little time on this site, I do see that there are several sincere people here with lots of great, helpful things to say. As for the ones who aren't so helpful... err, I chalk them up to having their own issues that they are processing through your issues.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

I think your shame and humiliation won't go away because your wife is showing no remorse. You both know she came back to you because you were plan B. Her doing NOTHING to help you recover is why you still feel humiliated. It's not taking her back that did it, it's taking her back knowing she still feels contempt for you that is causing your continued humiliation. 

Don't "just leave her" as all of these well intentioned people are saying. Let her know she got off for the affair too easily and she needs to start doing some lifting to help you. She chooses not to help you? THAT'S when you leave.


----------



## 2ntnuf

My humiliation came from what x2 did behind my back. It came from those in my family who chose not to support me. Those that did, sided more with my ex than me. Now, I understand that. I just didn't want to accept it. I still have a hard time accepting it. This likely doesn't have much to do with you, except that it's what you are receiving here. I also got some very tough responses to many things I wrote, and sometimes still do. Made me wonder about things, but I realized over time, many folks have their own issues. Hell, we all do. 

It's very difficult to separate what is worth considering and what is not, when a person is terribly depressed. Everything that is written, is read and absorbed, instead of normally brushing off the things which have no bearing in reality. We sometimes want to prove any and all allegations. Doing that only makes us look guilty. 

I imagine you feel and awful weight of guilt. I am thinking you feel great responsibility for any and all areas in your marriage where now you see you might have done better. I imagine you are searching all the memories you have to figure out every single place you did less than adequately as a husband. 

Many of these ideals are valid. The trouble is, when we are in a state of hyper-vigilance, they are given more weight than they deserve. We look at things others say and justify what they are guessing with little things we've done that in reality, have no bearing on what you need to heal. 

You actually need to get some help from a counselor. You have to start believing you are not the horrible waste of life you believe in your heart. It's not true. Please think about that. It may be an exaggeration of how you feel. It may be that you've just buried those feelings. 

Part of the way I think would help you to heal is reading about cognitive distortions and how you can separate yourself from those. They can make reality a myth. Another thing I think would help is to look at the things in life you can be grateful for. Something else would be to take action for yourself. Do things that take you away from the immediate situation. Get out of the "house" and start to live a little. Go sit and talk to folks about things they want to talk about. Do some things which push your boundaries a little. I don't mean to go and do things that will get you in trouble. Do things that will push your boundaries on the level of appropriate vulnerability. Something like taking a dance class. Helping others less fortunate, which will make you uncomfortable, but let you realize there are many people who need help to eat and survive, and will accept you for who you are right at this moment. All they want from you is for you to be just a little respectful and kind, no matter who they have become.

I don't know if this will help you or not. I'm doing the best I can. I hope you will see that. I'm not a doctor or counselor. I'm just a man with problems, doing his best to work through them. Hoping beyond all reason, that I can find a life and love again. It's hard. Some days, it's almost impossible to have hope. 

There are many ways to find hope. Finding a different perspective on your life, will help you. Remember that you still have choices. You just have to find a way to see them. Realizing that will help you to recover.


----------



## G.J.

Ouch just read it 

You've had it hard my friend

One thing that stood out to me was 



> When I ask my wife how long she was unhappy before she left, she says: approximately 6-4 months





> By the time she left, we hadn't had sex in 6-4 months.


In my book she was seeing some one then


----------



## the guy

We all had it hard.....it's what you do from here on out that matters.

Having some chick have that much control over your emotions is phucked up.


----------



## the guy

sorry ladies....chick/dude....


----------



## needrelief

G.J. said:


> In my book she was seeing some one then


I really doubt it. One thing I don't think my wife is, is a liar.

However, I believe during that time she was being seduced by the prospect of hanging with friends and the possibility (likelyhood) of meeting someone else.

I take a small (very small) amount of responsibility for this, in that I didn't nurture our intimacy. As chevanistic as it may sound, I believe some women become very succeptable to outside influences when her physical desirability isn't frequently being reinforced. Without physical intimacy the female brain quickly begins to unravel the relationship and set in motion (in her head, if not in actuality) plans to find a relationship where physical intimacy can nurture her emotional needs. 

Men do this too... The difference being; Men mostly do it to meet a physical need, while women do it to meet an emotional need- which usually results in a bond with the new partner and a repulsion from the previous partner.

I didn't understand this before my wife's affair.

During the 6-4 months of not speaking, I was watching porn and j-ing off to meet my physical needs and mentally I just saw our issues as a temporary situation.

My wife, on the other hand, without mental/emotional intimacy being reinforced was beginning to doubt our relationship and her own sexual worth... So she felt she needed to do something about it.

Now... What she chose to do about it was completely irrational, spiteful, and without thought or consideration. And on some level I believe she was not in her right mind. Because of the outside (non-sexual) influencers who had a vested interest in our separation, her "fog" was able to begin even before the physical affair began.

I'm not looking to excuse her behavior. She still had many opportunities to set things right. And ultimately, she's an adult human who has to be in control of her emotions and accountable for her actions if she's to live in society.

I guess the main reason for this rant (and I'm sorry if it comes across as sexist) is to say I'm trying to understand why she did what she did. But because it hurts so bad, I'm having a hard time forgetting what she did. As a result I can't stop the internal bleeding in my head and heart.

Because I am male, I am a very visual person. I can see EVERYTHING in my big stupid head. However, I am a very sensitive male. This is a trait of mine that many have found endearing and has served me well over the years. But right now, it's the biggest burden to endure.

I wish to god I could be like other guys and just say "[email protected] it!"


----------



## 2ntnuf

> ...Now... What she chose to do about it was completely irrational, spiteful, and without thought or consideration. And on some level I believe she was not in her right mind. *Because of the outside (non-sexual) influencers* who had a vested interest in our separation, her "fog" was able to begin even before the physical affair began.
> 
> I'm not looking to excuse her behavior. *She still had many opportunities to set things right.* And ultimately, she's an adult human who has to be in control of her emotions and accountable for her actions if she's to live in society.
> 
> I guess the main reason for this rant (and I'm sorry if it comes across as sexist) is to say *I'm trying to understand why she did what she did.* But because it hurts so bad, I'm having a hard time forgetting what she did. As a result I can't stop the internal bleeding in my head and heart.
> 
> Because I am male, I am a very visual person. I can see EVERYTHING in my big stupid head. However, I am a very sensitive male. This is a trait of mine that many have found endearing and has served me well over the years. But right now, it's the biggest burden to endure.
> 
> I wish to god I could be like other guys and just say "[email protected] it!"


We are influenced to purchase items we don't need, see movies that we wish we didn't, eat foods that clog arteries, jump from bridges with only a gum band attached, jump from perfectly good airplanes, and have children before we are ready. In the end, the decision to do these things is on the one making the choice. The difference in the things I listed are just that, some I won't ever have the opportunity to do, others I will have opportunity and not appetite, some I will just be too afraid to attempt. Others, I just really have very little interest in doing because I know myself. 

So, who is responsible for taking the actions necessary to do one of these? I have to ignore my arteries, my fear, my cravings and all the fancy advertisement that entices and influences my decision. I have to realize these influences are there for a selfish reason. Some reasons may be considered less bad than others. 

Like, someone falls in love because they know someone that matches the image in their head of an ideal mate. Some may believe they are a KISA helping someone to remove themselves from an abusive relationship. There are many reasons, but most of them have some sort of selfish allure. When I write selfish, I want you to understand that selfishness is necessary to be happy. The degree to which we find ourselves doing things to achieve our own selfish desires and hurt/harm others is when actions can be questioned. 

All of these things are more or less important depending on our own unique life experiences. 

We make choices unique to us, that lead us down a path. As we get closer to some end, the previous choices become reasons/justifications/beliefs that we are doing the right thing, as long as we find ourselves feeling better. That doesn't mean they are the right decisions, but that they have provided some relief from the turmoil we believe we are escaping. In some cases, our emotions mess with logic and reason. We find ourselves finally, too far removed from where we started. There is no going back. We cannot see ourselves as that person we once were. We fool ourselves. It's tougher to really change than we think. It's too late when we realise. The damage is done. 

There's a whole pile of brain chemicals involved which influence us. There's also outcome that we find more pleasing than what we had. 

Living in the present will help. Finding some way to be grateful for even small things will help. Doing things for yourself will help. You are worth it. You must somehow believe that. You don't have to have the validation of her love. Somehow you must realise that. 

I hope you are in counseling. You really do need it. You are only prolonging your agony.


----------



## tulsy

needrelief said:


> One thing I don't think my wife is, is a liar....


Really?


----------



## G.J.

needrelief said:


> *She then told me she was leaving and until she got her own place*, she and the kids would be staying *WITH THE CUN+S!*
> 
> During the time she stayed with _the Cun+s_, she made no attempts at R, *and no real attempts to actually find a permanent place for her and my kids.*
> 
> _LIER LIER PANTS ON FIRE_
> 
> And before long, my wife was reintroduced with, and started sleeping with, some loser a$$hole she went to high school with.
> 
> *But she had moved on. She (now) says that she never felt anything for the OM. That it was just sex (of which they had plenty of- but according to my wife, wasn’t good). However, despite not feeling anything for this other guy (I call bullsh!t),*
> 
> _LIER ALERT LIER ALERT_
> 
> *She tried to hold strong to the bullsh!t reasons that she left me,*
> 
> _THE SHIELDS ARE FAILING CAPTAIN_


You said she doesn't lie but looking at your post ....er well 

Why don't you phone the a$$hole and ask him when they started talking to each other (not seeing)


----------



## 2ntnuf

Not to burst your bubble, but...(see that "but" makes the first part of that a lie).

Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar | Talk Video | TED.com


----------



## 2ntnuf

I wonder if she was the type of person, and these can be both male and female, that is easily influenced into doing things? I guess I'm wondering for my own benefit too. Was she the type of person who would buy things because they were the newest thing on the market? Did she constantly update things because she believed they were better than what she had? I might be going way off on a tangent. I'm trying to understand and find some common red flag among those who decide to cheat.


----------



## chaos

It is very likely that most will view your wife as a skank and a pariah who switches between men like a light switch. Most of the men will not want their wives associating with her. But unlike you, she will be very deserving of this type of humiliating judgement.


----------



## Mr The Other

G.J. said:


> You said she doesn't lie but looking at your post ....er well
> 
> Why don't you phone the a$$hole and ask him when they started talking to each other (not seeing)


There are three types of lie. 

The flat out lie "I did it", when i's not true. 

The emotional support lie "I [feel as though] did it [on an emotional level]"

Then the third type of "I will go to the gym and start the diet tomorrow".

I can will believe most of the lies are the first two types, which she may not consider a lie (unless they come from him).


----------



## G.J.

double post


----------



## G.J.

Mr The Other said:


> There are three types of lie.
> 
> The flat out lie "I did it", when i's not true.
> 
> The emotional support lie "I [feel as though] did it [on an emotional level]"
> 
> Then the third type of "I will go to the gym and start the diet tomorrow".
> 
> I can will believe most of the lies are the first two types, which she may not consider a lie (unless they come from him).


Sorry to say but with out getting into semantics of lying BUT to me a lie is a lie is a lie especially with the ones in your post 



needrelief said:


> *She then told me she was leaving and until she got her own place*, she and the kids would be staying *WITH THE CUN+S!*
> 
> During the time she stayed with _the Cun+s_, she made no attempts at R, *and no real attempts to actually find a permanent place for her and my kids.*
> 
> _LIER LIER PANTS ON FIRE_
> 
> And before long, my wife was reintroduced with, and started sleeping with, some loser a$$hole she went to high school with.
> 
> *But she had moved on. She (now) says that she never felt anything for the OM. That it was just sex (of which they had plenty of- but according to my wife, wasn’t good). However, despite not feeling anything for this other guy (I call bullsh!t),*
> 
> _LIER ALERT LIER ALERT_
> 
> *She tried to hold strong to the bullsh!t reasons that she left me,*
> 
> _THE SHIELDS ARE FAILING CAPTAIN_


So how about calling him and seeing which category in your list
she will never know as she doesn't have contact does she?


----------



## needrelief

G.J. said:


> You said she doesn't lie but looking at your post ....er well
> 
> Why don't you phone the a$$hole and ask him when they started talking to each other (not seeing)


Again, I'm not making excuses for her...

When she left and said she intended to get a place for her and the kids, I believe she actually thought that was something she would do. Instead, she got caught up in her party and this got put on the back burner.

When she said she never felt anything for the POS, I don't think she was "lying" in so much as she just doesn't want to believe that this f-er was so successful at manipulating her into developing feeling for him. As a result, in her head, she doesn't see the feelings she felt as "real". So in her mind, the feelings didn't exists. I, on the other hand, believe these feelings were real and valid.

I think she truly believed the bull$hit she was dishing out. She was just under the "fog"

As far as phoning the a$$hole (she does not have contact), I don't want to give him and the cun+s the satisfaction of knowing that I still think of him...

2ntnuf- I wish I could find a way to solely live in the present. But in my mind it's difficult to let go of the past. How do I dismiss the bad, without dismissing the good as well? -Which makes me feel like our whole relationship is tainted.

[email protected]


----------



## G.J.

needrelief said:


> Again, I'm not making excuses for her...
> 
> When she left and said she intended to get a place for her and the kids, I believe she actually thought that was something she would do. Instead, she got caught up in her party and this got put on the back burner.
> 
> When she said she never felt anything for the POS, I don't think she was "lying" in so much as she just doesn't want to believe that this f-er was so successful at manipulating her into developing feeling for him. As a result, in her head, she doesn't see the feelings she felt as "real". So in her mind, the feelings didn't exists. I, on the other hand, believe these feelings were real and valid.
> 
> I think she truly believed the bull$hit she was dishing out. She was just under the "fog"
> 
> As far as phoning the a$$hole (she does not have contact), I don't want to give him and the cun+s the satisfaction of knowing that I still think of him...
> 
> 2ntnuf- I wish I could find a way to solely live in the present. But in my mind it's difficult to let go of the past. How do I dismiss the bad, without dismissing the good as well? -Which makes me feel like our whole relationship is tainted.
> 
> [email protected]


Hard call But the only reason she came back was because the OM dropped her and I'm thinking 'what ground is that to build on'

So I would need to know for definite if she was lying

Does she show true remorse for what she has done e.g. say thank you for giving me another chance, daily showing how much you mean etc
If its half baked then its a disaster waiting to happen


----------



## 2ntnuf

needrelief said:


> Again, I'm not making excuses for her...
> 
> When she left and said she intended to get a place for her and the kids, I believe she actually thought that was something she would do. Instead, she got caught up in her party and this got put on the back burner.
> 
> When she said she never felt anything for the POS, I don't think she was "lying" in so much as* she just doesn't want to believe that this f-er was so successful at manipulating her* into developing feeling for him. As a result, in her head, she doesn't see the feelings she felt as "real". So in her mind, the feelings didn't exists. I, on the other hand, believe these feelings were real and valid.
> 
> *I think she truly believed the bull$hit she was dishing out. She was just under the "fog"*
> 
> As far as phoning the a$$hole (she does not have contact), I don't want to give him and the cun+s the satisfaction of knowing that I still think of him...
> 
> 2ntnuf- I wish I could find a way to solely live in the present. But in my mind it's difficult to let go of the past. How do I dismiss the bad, without dismissing the good as well? -Which makes me feel like our whole relationship is tainted.
> 
> [email protected]


She might only hope that you don't believe she could let herself be manipulated. She knows she will lose respect in your eyes and the eyes of others. It will likely mean she is easy. She doesn't want that. She is manipulating you by saying these things. You have to believe what she did, not what she says. She did things based on what she believes. She may not have believed those things when you got married, but I suspect she did and you never knew. When the chips were down, she showed her true colors. 

You see, you have to find acceptance that it was a bad marriage. You have to know that you two were actually not that good for each other. You have to know that you have lied t o yourself for some reason only known to you. You have to look at who she is today, because that is the woman she is. She is not the woman you married. And that's not just because of the infidelity. Life experience changes us. What happened to bring this out of her? Likely there was something and only she knows. She won't tell because it makes her look bad, weak, ugly, ****ty, evil, or some other descriptively negative term. 

A marriage is good and bad, sickness and health. It's a conglomeration of many things, some of which are not so great, perseverance is part of that commitment. Some have a greater amount of that than others. Some are able to give up long before others. Not only did feelings influence her, but also people. The thing is, she decided that the best thing for her had nothing to do with you. It included someone else in her life. Even if she wanted to try, she already made the decision that you could not make her happy enough to stay with through thick and thin. 

Maybe you were duped? Maybe you were naive? Maybe you were horny? What matters is what is now, this day. It's all you have. It's all any of us have. All we can do is make this day the very best we can. 

I am so sorry that was harsh. I imagine it hurt. I don't know how else to explain without just putting it out there. I ask your pardon.


----------



## needrelief

chaos said:


> It is very likely that most will view your wife as a skank and a pariah who switches between men like a light switch. Most of the men will not want their wives associating with her. But unlike you, she will be very deserving of this type of humiliating judgement.


Since coming back to me, she seems to have lost all "friends" associated with the cun+s. As far as I know, none of them contact her (unless she's deleting threads from her phone and facebook). However, she doesn't spend any time with the two friends that weren't involved with her "partytime" either...

Now that you mention it, I can see their husbands' being turned-off/disgusted by my wife's behavior... so maybe you're right... (Again, unless she's deleting their conversations or for some reason, just not making time for them.)

You're right. Guys think that way. There's a skank that my wife used-to work with, that there's NO WAY I'd feel comfortable with her hanging out with... And it horrifies me to think that if not for my pleading... she would have been on her way to following in this skank's footsteps.


----------



## Mr The Other

G.J. said:


> Sorry to say but with out getting into semantics of lying BUT to me a lie is a lie is a lie especially with the ones in your post
> 
> 
> 
> So how about calling him and seeing which category in your list
> she will never know as she doesn't have contact does she?


The issue is that most women will not consider themselves to be lying with two of those three types of lie. OK, it was not true what she said - but she had to get him to understand. If she said it directly, he would not understand. If she said it directly, he would take it the wrong way and it was not really like that. 

These are the ways she will be in her mind and she will genuinely feel honest.


----------



## Mr The Other

needrelief said:


> Since coming back to me, she seems to have lost all "friends" associated with the cun+s. As far as I know, none of them contact her (unless she's deleting threads from her phone and facebook). However, she doesn't spend any time with the two friends that weren't involved with her "partytime" either...
> 
> Now that you mention it, I can see their husbands' being turned-off/disgusted by my wife's behavior... so maybe you're right... (Again, unless she's deleting their conversations or for some reason, just not making time for them.)
> 
> You're right. Guys think that way. There's a skank that my wife used-to work with, that there's NO WAY I'd feel comfortable with her hanging out with... And it horrifies me to think that if not for my pleading... she would have been on her way to following in this skank's footsteps.


In my experience, women can be rather black and white sometimes. They will believe it is all their friends husband's fault, as that is how it is with men and normal decent women. Then, she crosses and line and the friends no longer consider her a "normal decent women".


----------



## G.J.

Mr The Other said:


> The issue is that most women will not consider themselves to be lying with two of those three types of lie. OK, it was not true what she said - but she had to get him to understand. If she said it directly, he would not understand. If she said it directly, he would take it the wrong way and it was not really like that.
> 
> These are the ways she will be in her mind and she will genuinely feel honest.


Doesn't matter which way you dress it a lie is a lie
If she trys to justify it different in her mind that's her problem ...still is a lie


----------



## G.J.

Mr The Other said:


> In my experience, women can be rather black and white sometimes. They will believe it is all their friends husband's fault, as that is how it is with men and normal decent women. Then, she crosses and line and the friends no longer consider her a "normal decent women".


I totally have the opposite opinion in that men tend to think in terms right or wrong and women tend to look deeper and below the surface


----------



## NobodySpecial

Wait a minute? You unilaterally INSISTED that SHE change her friends? You use ploys to *get* her to do things? Is it even remotely possible that you don't look as great to the rest of the world as you think you do, and THAT is why they were supportive of her?


----------



## needrelief

NobodySpecial said:


> Wait a minute? You unilaterally INSISTED that SHE change her friends? You use ploys to *get* her to do things? Is it even remotely possible that you don't look as great to the rest of the world as you think you do, and THAT is why they were supportive of her?


The family "friends" in question (the matriarch in particular) were overstepping their bounds with my family. The woman took pleasure in undermining me (and my wife) to our children. My oldest child especially, was very enamored with her and the woman took great pleasure in contradicting us at every opportunity.
If we were at a party and I told my kids they couldn't drink soda... she'd say (in front of them) "Why not, you do"?
She would give them money and say "Don't tell your father, or he'll take it from you" (Which I would... then put it in their bank accounts)
She would pick them up from school and take them out to eat without asking- or even tell us at all...
One of the last straws was after a tennis tournament, I was talking to my son about his game play and what he could have done differently, and she said, "Well maybe he would have won if you didn't make him practice this morning..."
These are just a few examples, and there's even more blatant ones that I won't even get into...
These people are much older than us (20+ years), so out of respect, I was hesitant to come down on them. Plus, I understood that she thought she was being grandmotherly to the children...
But it got to be too much...
It was affecting my relationship with my children (specifically my oldest son). If you asked my wife, she would agree to this fact.
In the past, both my father, and my moronic mother-in-law expressed concern over the amount of control over my family that we (my wife and I) gave that woman.
When I told my wife that I had finally had enough, we got into a heated argument. She agreed that the woman was overbearing and undermining, but because she thought "her intentions were good", she wasn't willing to consider the damage this woman was doing.
My wife can be very passive, so this woman did not see her (my wife) as a threat to her control over my family. However, she was threatened by me, so most of the undermining was directed at me. As a result, it was my parental role that was constantly being challenged. If my wife could see that, yet still not see cause to act... I needed to take action regardless if she agreed.
This person wasn't as overtly hurtful to my children as say, a pedophile, but how far should I had let it go on? If you suspect someone of being a pedophile, do you wait until they actually penetrate your child before you take action? Or do you try to prevent the abuse?

Before the affair, other than this woman and her family, I never tried to tell my wife who she could have as friends. After the affair, it's a whole different story. However, I didn't even have to play that card, cause when she didn't tow the line with the cun+s, most of them dumped her like a bad habit...

As far as your statement about "using ploys to get her to do things" I don't know what you're referring to?


----------



## NobodySpecial

Whom do you respect?


----------



## needrelief

NobodySpecial said:


> Whom do you respect?


I showed (past tense) the matriarch of the cun+s respect because of her age...
She or her family will never get any respect from me ever again.


----------



## chaos

needrelief said:


> And it horrifies me to think that if not for my pleading... she would have been on her way to following in this skank's footsteps.


This right here shows your decency and quality as a human being.

As much as it sometimes sucks to be you, it sucks even worse to be her.


----------



## needrelief

chaos said:


> This right here shows your decency and quality as a human being.
> 
> As much as it sometimes sucks to be you, it sucks even worse to be her.


Her unhappiness gives me no comfort.


----------



## Mr The Other

G.J. said:


> Doesn't matter which way you dress it a lie is a lie
> If she trys to justify it different in her mind that's her problem ...still is a lie


Yes. We all lie. Sometimes we manage to convince ourselves we are honest people while lying. 



G.J. said:


> I totally have the opposite opinion in that men tend to think in terms right or wrong and women tend to look deeper and below the surface


My experience is when there are troubles in a relationship, women tend to assume the man is at fault as women are kind, sensitive creatures who want to make it work. When it gets to the point that this view is unsustainable, it swings the other way and she barely counts as a woman at all.


----------



## G.J.

Mr The Other said:


> Yes. We all lie. Sometimes we manage to convince ourselves we are honest people while lying.
> 
> 
> 
> My experience is when there are troubles in a relationship, women tend to assume the man is at fault as women are kind, sensitive creatures who want to make it work. When it gets to the point that this view is unsustainable, it swings the other way and she barely counts as a woman at all.


There we go that's what makes the human species so unpredictable as in both examples two people have completely different views


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## alexm

needrelief said:


> I take a small (very small) amount of responsibility for this, in that I didn't nurture our intimacy. As chevanistic as it may sound, I believe some women become very succeptable to outside influences when her physical desirability isn't frequently being reinforced. Without physical intimacy the female brain quickly begins to unravel the relationship and set in motion (in her head, if not in actuality) plans to find a relationship where physical intimacy can nurture her emotional needs.
> 
> Men do this too... The difference being; Men mostly do it to meet a physical need, while women do it to meet an emotional need- which usually results in a bond with the new partner and a repulsion from the previous partner.
> 
> My wife, on the other hand, without mental/emotional intimacy being reinforced was beginning to doubt our relationship and her own sexual worth... So she felt she needed to do something about it.
> 
> 
> I wish to god I could be like other guys and just say "[email protected] it!"


But other guys aren't really like that, believe it or not. This is "supposed" to be how we are, perhaps, but it's not the case, so don't worry about being somebody you are "supposed" to be.

Straight up, this post of yours has struck a nerve, as I feel I am in the beginnings of what you have described above, and I am fearful things with my wife may end up similarly.

We have had our share of stresses in the last little while, and among them is our sex life. It has gotten to the point where she no longer acts sexual within our relationship the way she used to. The why and how is not important. We do still have sex, yet I am finding it increasingly more difficult to do the initiation (she rarely, if ever, does). This has caused me to no longer see her in a sexual light, at least in the way I used to. I no longer look at her and think of what I'd like to do to/with her. She has become cognizant of this, and she has started to withdraw even further (as opposed to trying to be more "sexy" or seduce me).

The thing is, this was her fault, and she admits it. A little over a year ago, she thought it a good idea to tell me that she simply wasn't as highly sexual a person as I had thought, and that she never thought about sex (with me or anybody else), among other things. This escalated to her telling me in no uncertain terms that she hated giving BJ's, even though she always had (and very well, I might add). All of this, of course, caused me great anxiety, and when she realized the impact her statements had caused, she felt remorse. But the damage was done. It was difficult to me to feel attraction to somebody who I knew wasn't as "into it" as I thought she had been.

The similarities of my situation to your post above is eery, so I'm paying close attention to the replies here, and I genuinely don't mean to thread jack.

But I am now afraid that my relationship will take the same turn yours did, in that my wife knows I no longer feel the same sexual desire for her that I once did, and she knows exactly why. However the damage is done, and she is not doing a whole lot to repair it, even with my suggestions. I am genuinely worried that she will seek this desire elsewhere, or otherwise fall prey to an external advance (not that I don't trust her, I DO. I don't believe she'd purposefully plan something). I don't believe your wife purposefully planned what she did, either, however it seems as though she fell prey to the advances and suggestions of outside sources.

Often a parents worst advice begins and ends with "as long as you're happy". Even as parents of adult children, one has a responsibility to give ones opinion and advice based upon experience and common sense.

None of this justifies what your wife did to you, of course. If you ask me, she was (is?) weak-minded. She took a situation that was not appealing to her, and instead of working on it with you, she heeded the "advice" of others. My ex wife did something similar, and this, I believe, was a catalyst for her own infidelity. She had met a woman who happened to be a "life coach"  and they hit it off, initially as friends. This turned into once-weekly sessions, in which she completely admitted that she vented her issues within our marriage to this woman - who had never met me. My ex wife even told me that she was following this woman's advice when she decided to exit our marriage. She got a lot of the "follow your heart" and "do what makes you happy" garbage from this woman.

Basically, she enabled her, imo. I doubt she said "go out and have an affair", but I also doubt very much she suggested she work on her marriage, either. My ex wife, apparently, was also easily swayed by the outside advice of others, based upon one-sided chats.

It's a sad reality, though, that things are often up and down within a marriage. But its the down times that test the strength of the individual and the marriage. Your wife has failed you, as my ex wife had failed me.

Take solace in the fact that often there is nothing you could have done to change this. My current situation is close to that. I have tried to express to my wife that the way I view her currently (sexually) is not a reflection on her, her body, or how I feel about her. That it is completely based upon her having told me how she feels about sex and that, essentially, she had been faking her desire for many years. Not desire for ME, desire for sex, period. We have discussed this ad nauseum with the "solution" being that she needs to rekindle this desire (real or imagined) for me in this way. At one point in our relationship, she had the desire to do this for me, for us. For no apparent reason (even she admits that), she felt compelled to tell me it wasn't real, and this has damaged how I see her in that way.

I believe I am able to repair this, but to do it, it requires a great effort on her part, as well as mine, just as your image of your wife requires great effort on both of your parts.

I believe it can be done, but you need to be able to trust your wife again. Easier said than done, but it IS possible.


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## needrelief

alexm said:


> But other guys aren't really like that, believe it or not. This is "supposed" to be how we are, perhaps, but it's not the case, so don't worry about being somebody you are "supposed" to be.
> 
> Straight up, this post of yours has struck a nerve, as I feel I am in the beginnings of what you have described above, and I am fearful things with my wife may end up similarly.
> 
> We have had our share of stresses in the last little while, and among them is our sex life. It has gotten to the point where she no longer acts sexual within our relationship the way she used to. The why and how is not important. We do still have sex, yet I am finding it increasingly more difficult to do the initiation (she rarely, if ever, does). This has caused me to no longer see her in a sexual light, at least in the way I used to. I no longer look at her and think of what I'd like to do to/with her. She has become cognizant of this, and she has started to withdraw even further (as opposed to trying to be more "sexy" or seduce me).
> 
> The thing is, this was her fault, and she admits it. A little over a year ago, she thought it a good idea to tell me that she simply wasn't as highly sexual a person as I had thought, and that she never thought about sex (with me or anybody else), among other things. This escalated to her telling me in no uncertain terms that she hated giving BJ's, even though she always had (and very well, I might add). All of this, of course, caused me great anxiety, and when she realized the impact her statements had caused, she felt remorse. But the damage was done. It was difficult to me to feel attraction to somebody who I knew wasn't as "into it" as I thought she had been.
> 
> The similarities of my situation to your post above is eery, so I'm paying close attention to the replies here, and I genuinely don't mean to thread jack.
> 
> But I am now afraid that my relationship will take the same turn yours did, in that my wife knows I no longer feel the same sexual desire for her that I once did, and she knows exactly why. However the damage is done, and she is not doing a whole lot to repair it, even with my suggestions. I am genuinely worried that she will seek this desire elsewhere, or otherwise fall prey to an external advance (not that I don't trust her, I DO. I don't believe she'd purposefully plan something). I don't believe your wife purposefully planned what she did, either, however it seems as though she fell prey to the advances and suggestions of outside sources.
> 
> Often a parents worst advice begins and ends with "as long as you're happy". Even as parents of adult children, one has a responsibility to give ones opinion and advice based upon experience and common sense.
> 
> None of this justifies what your wife did to you, of course. If you ask me, she was (is?) weak-minded. She took a situation that was not appealing to her, and instead of working on it with you, she heeded the "advice" of others. My ex wife did something similar, and this, I believe, was a catalyst for her own infidelity. She had met a woman who happened to be a "life coach"  and they hit it off, initially as friends. This turned into once-weekly sessions, in which she completely admitted that she vented her issues within our marriage to this woman - who had never met me. My ex wife even told me that she was following this woman's advice when she decided to exit our marriage. She got a lot of the "follow your heart" and "do what makes you happy" garbage from this woman.
> 
> Basically, she enabled her, imo. I doubt she said "go out and have an affair", but I also doubt very much she suggested she work on her marriage, either. My ex wife, apparently, was also easily swayed by the outside advice of others, based upon one-sided chats.
> 
> It's a sad reality, though, that things are often up and down within a marriage. But its the down times that test the strength of the individual and the marriage. Your wife has failed you, as my ex wife had failed me.
> 
> Take solace in the fact that often there is nothing you could have done to change this. My current situation is close to that. I have tried to express to my wife that the way I view her currently (sexually) is not a reflection on her, her body, or how I feel about her. That it is completely based upon her having told me how she feels about sex and that, essentially, she had been faking her desire for many years. Not desire for ME, desire for sex, period. We have discussed this ad nauseum with the "solution" being that she needs to rekindle this desire (real or imagined) for me in this way. At one point in our relationship, she had the desire to do this for me, for us. For no apparent reason (even she admits that), she felt compelled to tell me it wasn't real, and this has damaged how I see her in that way.
> 
> I believe I am able to repair this, but to do it, it requires a great effort on her part, as well as mine, just as your image of your wife requires great effort on both of your parts.
> 
> I believe it can be done, but you need to be able to trust your wife again. Easier said than done, but it IS possible.


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## needrelief

I wish I could help you, alexm. I don't want to see anyone in the position I currently find myself.

All I can say is don't hold back your hurt feelings. Make sure you communicate these to your wife in a way that doesn't attack her.

Also, make sure it's clear that you're main intention is to please her, and to be closer to her.

Be completely vulnerable to her.

One thing I learned from my experience- I can completely disarm my wife by being vulnerable.

You may feel like a pu$$y and want to pull out (cause it's easier to just be angry)... But from what you say, it sounds like you're getting nowhere with frank discussions.

I'm almost sure if I'd learned how to show vulnerability prior to the mess I'm currently in, I wouldn't be here today...


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## EleGirl

WorkingOnMe said:


> What would you have said behind his back if he dumped his cheating wife and showed up with a 23 year old hottie on his arm.
> 
> See from my perspective your ongoing humiliation continues because of your ongoing acceptance.


Yea, nothing like using a young woman to stroke some guy's ego. Using others is definitely the way to feel better out himself. :scratchhead:


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## needrelief

Lila said:


> I've been reading this thread since it was started and hadn't posted anything because frankly, I think OP should divorce from his wife but that's something he and she will have to work through on their own. My only comment is really intended to clear up a misconception that keeps popping up in this thread over and over.
> 
> By OP's own words, his wife _never _cheated on him. She started a relationship with someone else _after_ she filed for divorce from OP. It was crass to flaunt the relationship to all and sundry on facebook, but it's not cheating.


I feel this neither helps nor changes my situation. Should it?


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## chaos

needrelief said:


> I'm almost sure if I'd learned how to show vulnerability prior to the mess I'm currently in, I wouldn't be here today...


I admire that you admit your shortcomings as a man and as a husband but I respectfully disagree with you on this point. 

There are thousands of women in your wife's shoes who did not resort to having an affair to feel better about themselves. These women chose to divorce their husbands FIRST but only after all the talking in the world brought them no help from their husbands. Many probably had opportunities to have an affair but had enough respect and self respect to say no. But not your wife. Her affair stroked her ego and it became so inflated that she thought she no longer needed you.

My point is not to stoke any lingering resentment towards your wife, but to help you see that nothing you did made her cheat on you. It was totally her choice to do that.


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## chaos

Lila said:


> By OP's own words, his wife _never _cheated on him. She started a relationship with someone else _after_ she filed for divorce from OP. It was crass to flaunt the relationship to all and sundry on facebook, but it's not cheating.


You may want to read *post 44* again to see that as soon as she left and filed for divorce, the affair became public knowledge, by her. Unless it is a ONS, no affair starts that quickly after filing for divorce and with plans to marry the lover ASAP.


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## EleGirl

needrelief said:


> I feel this neither helps nor changes my situation. Should it?


Very often here on TAM, when a man files or divorce (or his wife does) the men on TAM advise the man to start dating and "get some" as soon as the divorce papers are filed. So some of the very men who are on here calling your wife names would not hesitate to tell a man to do what she did. Stop and thing about that when reading their advice.

And yes, it is very important info to realize that your wife did not cheat on you. She did not flaunt an affair. She was out with the guy she started to see after she filed for divorce.

It helps because it's always a good idea to have things in the correct perspective.


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## needrelief

Lila said:


> The advice that is given to those reconciling after an affair is different from those reconciling due to a "normal" separation.


Why do you feel I should divorce?


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## needrelief

Lila said:


> Honestly.....I think your stubbornness (4 months of no talking while living together) and refusal to accept any responsibility for your half of what was wrong in your relationship prior to her leaving (see bold below) combined with the fact that you can't accept that she was unhappy enough in the relationship that she called your bluff and left you, will continue to prevent you from healing.
> 
> ​
> 
> You've completely rewritten your relationship. You continue to find other people on who to blame your marital problems. First it was the Cs. Then it was the other guy.
> 
> I mean, it's be almost a year and a half during which time you continue to have serious mental collapses, yet you haven't sought out independent counseling.
> 
> ​
> 
> ​
> Frankly, you need to fix yourself before you can even start thinking about fixing your marriage. However, I have a sneaky suspicion, based on everything I've read, that you won't do anything except continue to blame the (non) "affair" for everything you're going through. This won't help you one bit. Not at all.


Was I wrong to want these people out of our lives? I was trying to fix a huge problem in our lives. She was upset with, and not talking to me because I needed these people out of our lives. We had other issues, like all couples, but, believe me when say there were no other issues that she made me aware of that were making her unhappy. AND against my better judgment- just to make my wife happy- I even tried to smooth things over with the cun+s! But THEY were too hurt!

As far as calling my bluff, I wasn't bluffing when I said going and taking my children to these people was a completed betrayal. It was. How could I have said otherwise?

I don't blame the Cun+s or the a$$hole for our marital problems. But they were knowing, purposeful *enablers *and *opportunists *who played a huge role in helping my family fall apart.

The main problem was the lack of communication. But my wife didn't want to communicate. Perfect example- when my wife filed for divorce, she didn't even tell me she was filing. Three weeks after leaving the house (end of April), she went to the lawyer. 
And I didn't find out until July, when I was served...

And I went to IC for 7 months. And am currently looking for another...


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## soccermom2three

Good posts, Lila!


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## EleGirl

needrelief said:


> The main problem was the lack of communication. But my wife didn't want to communicate.
> 
> Perfect example- when my wife filed for divorce, she didn't even tell me she was filing. Three weeks after leaving the house (end of April), she went to the lawyer.
> 
> And I didn't find out until July, when I was served...


She had left you already. It's very common for a person who is filing for divorce to not tell their spouse that they are filing. Very often they find out when they are served.

This is an example of something she did AFTER she left you. It's not an example of her not communicating when you were together and the marriage was falling apart.


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## EleGirl

needrelief said:


> Was I wrong to want these people out of our lives? I was trying to fix a huge problem in our lives. She was upset with, and not talking to me because I needed these people out of our lives.


No one here knows if you were wrong, or not, to want the C’s out of your life. We don’t have your wife’s side of the story.

In a marriage, there should be a “policy of joint agreement”. That means that one person does not make major decisions… both do. You and your wife disagreed about these people. So the thing to do was to work it out. Neither of you could convince the other.

Your wife has as much right to want them as friends and you do to not want them as friends.



needrelief said:


> We had other issues, like all couples, but, believe me when say there were no other issues that she made me aware of that were making her unhappy. AND against my better judgment- just to make my wife happy- I even tried to smooth things over with the cun+s! But THEY were too hurt!


You say that there were other issues. What were those other issues?


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## chaos

Would you mind sharing the details regarding the chain of events that lead to your wife's change of heart and coming back to you to give the marriage another try?


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## Bruticus

needrelief said:


> Since my wife's affair, I've been a recluse.
> 
> Because she was angry at me at the time (and as far as she was concerned, our marriage was over), my wife had no shame in exposing her relationship. Everyone we know, knows she [email protected] someone else, including my parents, siblings, and children. She even posed on Facebook with the f'er. So even my long-distance friends and family are aware of her infidelity.
> 
> As a result, I have been thoroughly humiliated.
> 
> I don't know how to get past this and feel comfortable around others again.
> 
> Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


Sorry, I have no advice for you that's short of leaving her and moving on. At least leaving would let you heal in time, staying with the adulteress could prevent you from ever healing. You should at least be thankful she was upfront with you about her skankery, it's the ones who lie and hide it that you really have to be weary of.


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## marriedandlonely

needrelief said:


> Since my wife's affair, I've been a recluse.
> 
> Because she was angry at me at the time (and as far as she was concerned, our marriage was over), my wife had no shame in exposing her relationship. Everyone we know, knows she [email protected] someone else, including my parents, siblings, and children. She even posed on Facebook with the f'er. So even my long-distance friends and family are aware of her infidelity.
> 
> As a result, I have been thoroughly humiliated.
> 
> I don't know how to get past this and feel comfortable around others again.
> 
> Short of leaving her- any advice would be appreciated.


Any chance she will get angry again (to be perfectly honest if she has been there before she will MOST probably go there again) 
And if there is anything worse than being humiliated once ,its being humiliated AGAIN,MATE for your own sanity unless she is doing a perfect job on the wifey thing you are a fool unto yourself.
But you asked me not to tell you to LEAVE so I won't "ask her to":scratchhead:


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## Dogbert

For the pain of infidelity betrayal, relief is spelled D-I-V-O-R-C-E


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