# The poison of expecting too much from your partner



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I've been mulling this around for a while here.

This is of course my opinion. I do not intend to imply that it is the only opinion, nor the only correct opinion. You may disagree with me; I won't be offended. 

Too many here seem to advise what I think of as unrealistic expectations from a spouse. Not a single thread goes by where someone doesn't counsel another to "leave the jerk already". Which is fine advice when a husband is smacking his wife around, but maybe not quite so appropriate for the dude who leaves the toilet seat up.

Sure I understand that we all have our deal-breakers. It's hard to tell someone that the one thing you absolutely cannot stand in another person is something you should just accept. But I now have three decades of marriage behind me - a marriage that many have told me on this forum that I should have ended long ago. I don't know if it's representative of anyone else's experience, but I know why it has worked: dedication to getting over the inevitable humps, dissatisfactions, petty differences, and small slights, and the occasional bomb-vests in a long term relationship. 

It seems to me, if I'm not misinterpreting, that too many people believe that a successful relationship has no significant friction. That personal differences _must_ be solved instead of accommodated, and if not solved to my satisfaction, then the relationship is to be terminated. My needs are paramount, and little introspection is paid to whether my needs are really needs. 

So what is this fascination with greener pastures? Is it some misguided notion that the perfect person, with no warts or bad habits really does exist out there if you are only patient and courageous enough to find him or her? From where does this expectation come that if a partner fails to be Everything and Everyone to us that we should pull up stakes? Where is our personal responsibility to accept that others, including our mates, are not exactly like us, nor would we want them to be?

When anyone asks me for what I consider the best recipe for a long term marriage, I answer: Expect a roller coaster. There will be ups, and there will be downs. Expect your partner to piss you off. Not daily, not chronically, but periodically. Do not view every difference of opinion with your spouse as just another nail in the coffin that is sure to end your time together. Dedicate yourself to fixing that which can be fixed and accepting that which cannot - up to a point, of course. Don't stay in an abusive relationship. Don't stay if you're chronically unhappy. Don't become a doormat to allowing every possible kind of bad behavior in the quest for a meaningless long term relationship. 

But above all, be realistic. Your sh*t stinks too, but a good partner will be willing to stand next to you nonetheless.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

My motto is accept every single thing about your spouse that you possibly can. Set limits when required. Don't marry jerk should go without saying, but seems like it does need to be said.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

I actually get this opposite impression on here. That Marriage is for LIFE no matter what. That people shouldn't fall in love with other people while being married and then leave their spouse. This seems to be the norm here. Not, "leave and tear ass!!!" DUDE


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I agree with a lot of that. None of us were born and raised to be a "perfect" partner to someone. We are all individuals and, at best, we appreciate our partners enough that we focus on the positives rather than on what WE perceive to be their negatives. I believe we should allow each other lots of personal freedom to be the unique individuals we are, just like we do with our friends.

Where I disagree is that, I believe many people marry hastily and for the wrong reasons (being in love is not a good enough reason by itself to marry, IMO), and do find themselves in marriages where they simply aren't right for each other and/or their partners exhibit plenty of bad behaviors that might be intolerable. I think the advice to move on could be totally on target because those people should never have been married in the first place.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

i think its an evolution of society where in the world we live in, everything is disposable and replaceable.

marriage is now treated they same way, especially with younger generations. just dump your relationship and get a new one if it takes any effort to maintain or there is some other shiny new person out there who looks better on paper.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

A lot of people have a tendency to see their spouse as the source of their happiness. That puts undue pressure on the spouse and the relationship, and ultimately sets everyone up for failure. I've been guilty of this too.

I'd wager that most successful relationships happen when people become their own source of happiness instead. Instead of plugging into your spouse and drawing happiness, plug yourself into them and pipe it their way.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> I'd wager that most successful relationships happen when people become their own source of happiness instead. Instead of plugging into your spouse and drawing happiness, plug yourself into them and pipe it their way.


Profound and naughty at the same time.

Whakka whakka indeed.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> A lot of people have a tendency to see their spouse as the source of their happiness. That puts undue pressure on the spouse and the relationship, and ultimately sets everyone up for failure. I've been guilty of this too.
> 
> I'd wager that most successful relationships happen when people become their own source of happiness instead. Instead of plugging into your spouse and drawing happiness, plug yourself into them and pipe it their way.


This is where the whole "need" vs. "want" comes in. I want my partner to want me to enhance their own happiness and their life, not to need me to survive and be happy.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

norajane said:


> This is where the whole "need" vs. "want" comes in. I want my partner to want me to enhance their own happiness and their life, not to need me to survive and be happy.


My wife has this problem. She "knows" that I don't _really _need her to be happy, and this pains her a little No, I've never said "I don't need you", but people figure things out.

My son was reassuring her recently that this is a good thing. It means we are together not because I can't possibly imagine it any other way, which implies no choice on my part, but because I choose to be there.


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

I can see where Cletus is coming from. There are many times were posters advise others to cut and run right off the bat instead of even trying to dig into more details or offer up other suggestions to attempt to work through an issue first. I just think it's part of life on a forum such as this where people come at it with their own baggage coloring their advice. They aren't always offering up clear and impartial advice because they're mired in their own problems or just offering lazy advice. Hell, I know when I was posting more during my more troubling times I would post a reply and often look back at it and realize that I was talking into a mirror more than to the other poster. After being around here awhile you also get to know some of the different personalities and know/expect they may have a certain characteristic to their advice. Sometimes you just get a the quality of advice you pay for hah.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

4x4 said:


> Sometimes you just get a the quality of advice you pay for hah.


I always cut my advice here with 20% baking soda. 

But it's not just the advice. There's been a handful of threads recently where the OP question makes my eyebrows go up in a "Really? THIS is the problem with which you need relationship advice?" manner. 

It makes me want to tell them that they really need to learn better coping skills, or they're going to have a Very Bad Day when a real problem comes down the pike.


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## HBnFV (Sep 22, 2015)

I really really like this post. A lot. I mostly read threads that tend to have similar themes of the things I'm dealing with and I do see a lot of "leave him, he's an a$$hole, what a jerk," etc...

I spend much of my day contemplating the state of my marriage. I am very unhappy and have been for a long time. I see little efforts here and there on husband's part; however, they are always very short lived. This post will make me think harder about whether I should just accept that my husband is extremely lazy, selfish, and unsupportive. He is not physically abusive and we do get along pretty well most of the time. Is it possible I expect too much? Maybe. I believe everyone deserves to at least feel supported in their relationship, but maybe I do rely on him for my own happiness too much and I need to just focus on doing things that make me happy. 

Thanks for another perspective!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

HBnFV said:


> Is it possible I expect too much?


It is always possible, but the fact that you're willing to contemplate the question mitigates 90% of the problem.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I tend to advise divorce when I see situations that have similarities to my first marriage. And I didn't just leave my marriage at the drop of a hat, I was married for 21 years. There are just some very incompatible personality types that I truly feel will not get better and, in fact, will probably get worse over time.

I think I suggest divorce because I honestly am trying to save someone else from wasting the amount of time that I did with someone who was a complete waste of my investment of time and energy.

But I agree that you should try to work through your problems first. Just that you have to start clear boundaries, time limits and stick to them if you don't see improvements.

Ultimately, for me, the grass wasn't just greener after divorce. Its green and lush and filled with flowers and glitter-farting unicorns. My new husband is literally the most amazing person I've ever had the pleasure to spend time around and he's always on my side. Something I've never had before. 

And I don't think there's anything wrong with having huge expectations for a spouse. I certainly do and he lives up to them. I have zero intention of lowering my standards ever again. I did that for a long time in my crappy marriage and it affected me, my kids, and my life in a very bad way.

So I agree with you to a point. I do agree that people need to try before they give up but I do think that for some people, divorce is a very good solution to an incompatible relationship.


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

Don't you mean you wanna say "Are you some kind of moron?” :rofl:

Well Cletus you do have the advantage of knowing Brandine in more ways than just husband and wife. heeyuck There are some threads, such as by a recently banned member, that have rolled my eyes also. You've got a lot of years of experience under your belt were others don't. I had a lot of years under my belt with my ex too, but I've still had a lot to learn. I do appreciate what I've learned here from threads great and small.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

HBnFV said:


> I really really like this post. A lot. I mostly read threads that tend to have similar themes of the things I'm dealing with and I do see a lot of "leave him, he's an a$$hole, what a jerk," etc...
> 
> I spend much of my day contemplating the state of my marriage. I am very unhappy and have been for a long time. I see little efforts here and there on husband's part; however, they are always very short lived. This post will make me think harder about whether I should just accept that my husband is extremely lazy, selfish, and unsupportive. He is not physically abusive and we do get along pretty well most of the time. Is it possible I expect too much? Maybe. I believe everyone deserves to at least feel supported in their relationship, but maybe I do rely on him for my own happiness too much and I need to just focus on doing things that make me happy.
> 
> Thanks for another perspective!


I don't think the intent of this thread was to encourage people to stay in bad relationships. If my partner were lazy, selfish and unsupportive, I wouldn't stay. Those are the kinds of things I consider intolerable in a partner - they aren't actually being a partner if they are selfish and unsupportive, are they?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Which is why this forum is so popular. It is exceedingly difficult to differentiate between the need for more and the need to adjust expectations. When is enough enough and when is more too much?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I believe in doing everything possible to gain understanding. That is especially true regarding understanding your spouse. Crucially so about understanding yourself. 

I think those that suggest divorce are speaking as though they are the ones making the decision. It goes back to boundaries... What we each find tolerable /intolerable. Different strokes, etc. I actually wouldn't be all that surprised to find a woman that would divorce because a toilet seat was up. We've seen stranger things here.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cletus,
That's why compatibility matters as much as love. And it is also why you should pay close attention to what is happening while dating. For most folks, dating is a mix of 'sales cycle' and 'discovery' process. 

If it's a healthy process, the sales part is each person showing their best self, not dishonestly misrepresenting themselves. 

But by far the biggest flaw I see during dating isn't overt deception about who we are. It's the foolish beliefs that:
- Love will overpower incompatibility 
- Marriage will change the person we love

Most of what folks say on here - if you ask them good questions - they acknowledge that they knew what was what before they conceived their first child. 





Cletus said:


> I've been mulling this around for a while here.
> 
> This is of course my opinion. I do not intend to imply that it is the only opinion, nor the only correct opinion. You may disagree with me; I won't be offended.
> 
> ...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

So much depends on the person you marry. With my ex, I had to accept more and more and expect less and less. This time, apparently I can keep raising my expectations while simultaneously lowering my idea of what I have to put up with.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I tend to agree but that it's more women than men who have the unrealistic expectations. Men are not trying to overreact and try to hold things together while women find a couple of "non-deal breaker level" items and they want a divorce,

When you think about it, it makes sense because men have a lot more to lose in a divorce, so they would be more incline to try to hold things together.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> I tend to agree but that it's more women than men who have the unrealistic expectations. Men are trying to overreact and try to hold things together while women find a couple of "non-deal breaker level" items and they want a divorce,
> 
> When you think about it, it makes sense because men have a lot more to lose in a divorce, so they would be more incline to try to hold things together.


What is a deal breaker for one isn't for another. I would be totally surprised if a woman divorced over the toilet seat being left up. 

I consider all threads as being important to the person who started it.

Sure, some may seem silly or attention-getters. And, these are easy enough to pass by without passing judgment and issuing condemning statements to the OP.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Cletus,
> That's why compatibility matters as much as love. And it is also why you should pay close attention to what is happening while dating. For most folks, dating is a mix of 'sales cycle' and 'discovery' process.
> 
> If it's a healthy process, the sales part is each person showing their best self, not dishonestly misrepresenting themselves.
> ...


So true!

In response to Cletus' OP, assessing initial compatibility is only the first step. Maintaining congruent objectives throughout the changes in life is the second half. 

Change is inevitable. Most people would agree that their behavior and thought patterns at 20 are very different at 40, and probably unrecognizable at 60. In a long term relationship, we hope that the changes experienced by each spouse/partner will happen in parallel to each other but sometimes they diverge dramatically. This isn't an issue of one partner seeking greener pastures. It's more about the current green pasture no longer being able to sustain both partners. 

An example of this would be the couple that divorces after the kids are grown and gone. They realize they are two completely different people than they were when they married. Their life paths are 180 degrees apart from each other and the effort required to join those paths is monumental if not impossible. 

In addition to managing expectations, couples have to focus on nurturing the relationship. It's a two part process IMO.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

EnigmaGirl said:


> But I agree that you should try to work through your problems first. Just that you have to start clear boundaries, time limits and stick to them if you don't see improvements.


Actually, that's not at all what I was getting at.

I say make a conscious decision to have fewer problems in the first place by not expecting your partner to be perfect. By, in fact, expecting your partner to be flawed and to do a better job of handling those flaws when they arise.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> What is a deal breaker for one isn't for another. I would be totally surprised if a woman divorced over the toilet seat being left up.


Did we not have a recent post where one of the two initial complaints was that one of the spouses used the wrong door when entering the bathroom?



> Sure, some may seem silly or attention-getters. And, these are easy enough to pass by without passing judgment and issuing condemning statements to the OP.


That's fine, but perhaps sometimes the best advice to the OP is "suck it up". Is that passing judgment?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Where we came to was being clear with each other about what our dealbreakers were in terms of boundaries.

And basically everything within those boundaries we agree to work on together.

Easier to talk about no fly zones than it is to talk about what possible places you can fly.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Cletus, I get what you're saying and I agree, within what I call reasonableness. None of us are perfect, we all do dumb things and have odd quirks, and we should forgive these things... Not sweat "small stuff." 

But if a spouse grievously lies for instance or is purposely deceptive, I don't call that a hurdle in the relationship, I call that an oncoming pain train and sadly, that is what we often see here. It's unacceptable behavior to me personally, and given the severity of the offense, I would lose no sleep over ending the relationship in a very real and decisive stroke. 

Personal boundaries coupled with reasonableness.

BTW I am very pleased your strategy worked for you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cletus,
There's a massive difference between being - flawed - and being - selfish enough to remain largely indifferent to your spouse's desires. 

Marriage creates a type of 'natural monopoly' in a lot of ways. It is inherently expensive in many ways to end a marriage. Sometimes the result of that high 'barrier to exit' is a pronounced devaluation of the other persons desires. 

This is exactly why so many divorces occur when the last child leaves the home. The barrier comes way down, and the person who feels ill treated or neglected - walks. 






Cletus said:


> Actually, that's not at all what I was getting at.
> 
> I say make a conscious decision to have fewer problems in the first place by not expecting your partner to be perfect. By, in fact, expecting your partner to be flawed and to do a better job of handling those flaws when they arise.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Cletus said:


> My wife has this problem. She "knows" that I don't _really _need her to be happy, and this pains her a little No, I've never said "I don't need you", but people figure things out.
> 
> My son was reassuring her recently that this is a good thing. It means we are together not because I can't possibly imagine it any other way, which implies no choice on my part, but because I choose to be there.


My wife had a problem with that as well. I think she's come around by now.

I don't appreciate being needed. My dog needs me, he doesn't have a choice. It says nothing about me as a person.

I want to be wanted, that implies a conscious choice to be with me.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> say make a conscious decision to have fewer problems in the first place by not expecting your partner to be perfect. By, in fact, expecting your partner to be flawed and to do a better job of handling those flaws when they arise.


It really depends on what the flaws are and if they work for you though.

For instance, I could never tolerate a slob. I hate mess and I spent wayyyy too much of my life cleaning up after my ex. Some women, however, don't care about that.

I also couldn't tolerate someone who wasn't a really hard worker and financially independent. But some women tolerate that in their men too and don't mind being the primary breadwinner.

It really is about knowing you first and what you can put up with and not put up with.

I think what its really about is knowing what your breaking points are and making sure that you know you first and then your partner enough to make sure that they don't have the traits that are going to drive you nuts. You don't have to lower your expectations but you do have to acknowledge that you can't change anyone and if they're someone you're barely tolerating before marriage, you're going to hate them soon after you wed.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

My advice to my children is "only be involved with someone who is genuinely concerned with your happiness".

If that's the case, then just about anything can be worked through.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

If I could I would like the whole thread. The thing I take away from it is recognizing the difference between "flawed" and "broken". All of us are flawed, some of us (and our SOs, STBXs and X's as well) are flawed to the point of being broken. The key lies in recognizing the difference and dealing with it. I also agree that a lot of people here see every issue thru the prism of their own experience and see every problem as a nail because the only tool they possess is a hammer.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"That's fine, but perhaps sometimes the best advice to the OP is "suck it up". Is that passing judgment?"

Yes. By the time they get around to starting a thread they have most likely already 'sucked it up'. Telling a person to 'suck it up' isn't advice - it's downplaying what they consider to be a problem and is patronizing. If you don't have useful advice, exit the thread.

You think if spouses would just realize that their mate isn't perfect and lower their expectations that their lives would be hunky-dory. Wrong! Unless you marry the first day you meet, people already know that their mate isn't perfect. And, that first little annoyance gets overlooked until there is a mountain of little annoyances that come tumbling down when they've reached the end of their rope. The latest annoyance is usually the one that gets a thread started.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I feel much of *my personal perspective* comes from seeing 1st hand when a couple is "train wreck compatible" (my own parents)....Best thing they ever did was divorce.. but I'm happy I was born!...

Then witnessing my father's happiness & contentment with my step Mother, going on 40 yrs now.. . even though I had my issues with this woman when living with her....I thank God for her today... the love & devotion she has given my father... they were meant to be together.. 

He has some ongoing health issues, with her by his side.. I can see the uplift in his spirits -always... they do everything together, 2 peas in a pod...I witnessed her tear up in the waiting room once -talking about her love for him....then I got mushy.. they have a beautiful thing.. had this not have been.. what a shame I say. 

*So yeah...sometimes that GRASS IS GREENER*.. 

I could mention a # of friends who found happiness AFTER a divorce.. had they stayed with their 1st spouse.. they would never have felt LOVED even.. Some people, for whatever reason , can not get past certain differences.. we can offer our advice to meet each other half way.. but some are too stubborn or something in them just needs OUT.. for freedom.. I am not one who would want to stay where another wanted freedom.. I would SPIT ON THIS ...

We can lead a horse to water but not make him drink, ya know. 

I take a preventative view of relationships...I put the most emphasis on understanding WHO we are.. what we want in life, love.. having a vision of what we call happiness...and finding someone honest enough to show us who they are.. what they want.. do our visions line up.. CAN WE LIVE WITH THEIR Flaws, shortcomings, hobbies & quirks.. or will they drive us to want to pull our hair out... 

When husband & I first met.. how did I know he was right for me...or it sure was a good beginning....he didn't mind when I "love noted" him to death.. I picked that poor man's brain!! ... so I knew what he was about .. where he came from, what he wanted.. equally what he didn't want....some crazy insightful deep heart to hearts we had.. that left us feeling like soul mates pretty early on...

We still have spats .. (and true to your thread topic).. it's me wanting something more out of him at times... (those pesky expectations!)....now & then I let it get the best of me.. and I cause a fight.. (one of my flaws ) though he'd tell anyone he handles me well...and it's true...

One of those friends of mine who found happiness in her 2nd marriage.... she says to my husband the other day.. I mentioned how I caused him some grief fighting with him... she looks at him & says... "it's when she stops fighting ...you have to worry.. "

He smiled & agreed.. this is very true.... if/when that happens.. it means I gave up on him...something has been lost between us... 

He gives me Grace .. I give him Grace.. and we fall back into each others arms.. 



> *Buddy400 said*: *My advice to my children is "only be involved with someone who is genuinely concerned with your happiness"*.


 :smthumbup:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Yes. By the time they get around to starting a thread they have most likely already 'sucked it up'. Telling a person to 'suck it up' isn't advice - it's downplaying what they consider to be a problem and is patronizing. If you don't have useful advice, exit the thread.


That is useful advice. If a dozen people in a thread tell you "Whoa, that's not a problem, recalibrate", then perhaps that's exactly what you need to do.

Advice doesn't always have to take the form of a shoulder to cry on. Sometimes it needs to be a smack on the behind.


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