# Seeking WS and BS perspectives; his gaslighting doesn’t align with my evidence or with common sense!



## abbylou (3 mo ago)

Hi TAM community, I need help! I am positive that my husband had or is having an affair. Here’s how I know:

In the spring, after my husband’s work trip to Europe, I accidentally found a note from a woman. It was in a book he had taken with him. I was putting the book on the bookshelf and flipped through the pages and found it. It was pretty general, nothing explicit, but obviously from a woman who had spent substantial time talking to him and had intense feelings for him. I should have confronted him then but I was too scared, instead I kept my eyes and ears opened.

In the summer he took another work trip, but this time to another state in the US. Upon his return, I searched his luggage when he was at work the following day. I found another note with the same handwriting. This time the woman stated how she was so happy to have found him on a certain dating app, that she came “to visit you in America…,” signed her name, stated what country she was from, and talked about discussing “what the future brings us.”

I was still very scared to approach him, but building up the courage to do so. Now in the fall, he has taken nearly 3 weeks off work to return to Europe (NOT a work trip!). He did spend about a week and a half with a family member in one country to help out with their new baby. I think this was just a cover up though, because another close family member had a baby last year and he didn’t go visit them. The second half of his trip he spent in the country where this woman lives. Of course he’s staying with a guy friend and sends me pictures of them together.

I should have paid more attention, but it seems that he was more available by phone the duration he was with his family. Since he traveled to the second country (where the woman lives), it seemed like he would answer his phone less often. Once he said, “sorry I was out in the country and there was no reception,” and another time, “I don’t know why I didn’t hear my phone ring.”

When he came home, I asked him about this woman. He said she is just a friend, that he meets people all the time, women always hit on him and he always tells them he has a wife and kids. He said that woman was coming to America to visit her friends and family and she just happened to stop by and see him. He said he has tried and tried to delete his old dating app profiles but can’t remember his passwords or the email he used way back when he signed up. He said I could call his guy friend and ask what they did every day while he was there. He showed me all his apps on his second phone (yes, he has a second phone!) but he did have a few minutes time to delete any suspicious app while I attended to the kids in the other room.

I am 99.99% sure I’ve found the woman on FB and IG and I’m ready to confront her since WH didn’t confess.

My questions are:
The dating app thing…that absolutely does NOT make sense! Even if you did forget your email and passwords, the ONLY way you would ever meet anyone would be if you were ACTIVELY USING the app!!!

Why does he think it’s okay to be friends with women (supposing they aren’t lovers) when he has explicitly told me not to have any single male friends!?

The second love note absolutely does not sound like a casual friend simply dropping by to say hi because she was in the neighborhood. Can someone back me up please?

When I contact the OW….how do I approach it? Nice and kind, matter of fact, aggressive…??? I don’t even know if she knows he’s married. I suspect she doesn’t know, but if she does know…that just makes her as bad as him in my opinion!

Please I need input from people who have been on both sides. How does the mind of the WS work? Are these common ways to gaslight the BS? What are the next action steps for me?

After writing all this down it just looks so ridiculous. I can’t believe I have let it get this far and I never thought I would be in this situation. Thank you all in advance for your help and opinions!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Howdy Mrs. Who,

Well you see here is the thing… you are expecting people to tell the truth. If you were to take the time and read all the cheating stories the one thing you will learn is that cheaters lie … and then lie some more….and then lie again… and after that all they do is lie some more. On top of this fantastic pile of lies they will gaslight the hell out of you and then at absolute best you can hope for a tiny amount of trickle truth

Bottom line…. You are trying to apply logic, reason, and truth to a situation where you will get absolutely none.

You will be left hanging, hanging, and hanging.

Let’s be honest…. You already have seen the truth plain as day. The hard part is accepting it.

I’m sorry honey but he is a cheater …. Clear as day.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

abbylou said:


> Hi TAM community, I need help! I am positive that my husband had or is having an affair. Here’s how I know:
> 
> In the spring, after my husband’s work trip to Europe, I accidentally found a note from a woman. It was in a book he had taken with him. I was putting the book on the bookshelf and flipped through the pages and found it. It was pretty general, nothing explicit, but obviously from a woman who had spent substantial time talking to him and had intense feelings for him. I should have confronted him then but I was too scared, instead I kept my eyes and ears opened.
> 
> ...


Yea, sorry Mrs Who. I agree with @Mr.Married 
All these red flags are painting a picture of infidelity.

You asked this:
"_Are these common ways to gaslight the BS? _"
Yes, absolutely. Lie Lie Lie is the language of a cheater.
I've been on both sides of the WS/BS fence.

If his claims were innocent and you were just paranoid, the excuses he has would feel a lot more realistic and consistent with his normal behavior.

And something else, you don't need to contact the OW, that won't help you at all. They will just hide things better.
You need to contact a lawyer.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Yes you are being lied to and gaslighted. He has a side piece in another country and a friend that covers for him. You can’t trust any words that leave his mouth. Period. You can’t trust his AP either, even if that is actually her.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

None of that smells well.
Get your affairs sorted, find a good attorney and file.
You can see what sifts out at that point and determine if things are worth saving.
However, you are better off just letting the legal system complete the job.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Mrs Who,

I understand from your perspective it will be hard to read and accept the above post from everyone.

The faster you accept it the quicker you can come out on the other side


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He’s playing you. What is your plan to deal with it?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

You mentioned several times you were too scared to confront him. Too scared of what?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

I second people here, he's cheating. Which man goes willingly to help someone with a new baby? 🤣 🤣 🤣. Come on, he's so full of **** his breath stinks.

Noone going to tell you the truth, he's spending family time and money living a second life. 

Definitely see a lawyer , get tested for STDs and dint say a damned thing. See if you can pull credit card statements and investigate quietly. He sounds pretty adept at covering his tracks.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

He’s 100% cheating and 100% lying to you. There are SO many red flags. Deep down, you know what’s going on.

Don’t focus on the OW. You’re not married to her. I would see a lawyer and start planning for divorce. You’re probably shell shocked. I was when I found out my ex was cheating. But keep your dignity and leave him. A few years from now, you will be glad you did.


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> You mentioned several times you were too scared to confront him. Too scared of what?


I don't know what I'm scared of! I've always been non-confrontational, but this time I think I'm scared to rock the boat. But then I think, what is worse...a life of rugsweeping this behavior and living with anxiety and mistrust, or one big confrontation and get it over with! This is huge! Maybe I'm scared of falsely accusing him even though the evidence is very strong. I only told him about the notes I found, but now I think I should SHOW him the pictures I took of them and ask him to explain himself.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Agree with what others have stated...However, ( this won't be popular ) it can't hurt to contact the OW . She may know nothing about you and may in fact verify your suspicions. Or maybe not and lie

If you do contact her , rest assured she will contact your husband and tip him off. 

I hope you get the answers that you seek


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> Agree with what others have stated...However, ( this won't be popular ) it can't hurt to contact the OW . She may know nothing about you and may in fact verify your suspicions. Or maybe not and lie
> 
> If you do contact her , rest assured she will contact your husband and tip him off.
> 
> I hope you get the answers that you seek


I agree. I really think she has no idea about me. When she addressed her 2nd note to him (her 1st note was addressed to "Love"), she used his middle name which suggests to me he's lying to her too not wanting to tip off her either in case she does a social media search. Speaking of social media...there are 0 posts highlighting me in his IG. I am in a group photo in one post and in another, I'm in the 4th photo as you swipe to see additional photos. I don't obsess over his IG, but I could have sworn there was a picture of us together on there last time I looked.


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

Is anyone here an airline worker or a travel agent? Maybe you can clarify if this is a ridiculous cover-up. Another suspicious behavior that I forgot to mention is that during this most recent trip we all agreed we missed each other and he was homesick and he should come home earlier. He was originally supposed to come home on Sunday, the 30th. Then he decided to try to come home earlier but after hours talking to the airline, the earliest he could get to come back was Saturday the 29th AT MIDNIGHT, so not rolling into our driveway till 1 or 2 am on the 30th anyway. Unfortunately I did not see the original itinerary, so I don't know if he even attempted to change his flight at all. The reason for the struggle to change his flight was apparently because he booked with a third party agent and they were super hard to work with. 

This does not make sense to me because first of all, it's EUROPE...not like a super rare trip to some far off uninhabited island. Flights to and from Europe and USA happen every single day. Secondly, he had already changed his his flight dates about 2 times from home before he even left! Never once mentioned a single problem with those changes!


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> He’s playing you. What is your plan to deal with it?


I have had a consult with an attorney, but haven't taken further steps. 

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I will contact the OW today because I truly think she has no idea. I realize she'll probably contact him today too if she reads my message, so I have to be prepared for a confrontation when he comes home from work. 

Today after work I have my first IC session. I get off about 3 hours before he does.

We are on a waitlist for MC but I don't know if we'll get that far.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Be prepared for nothing but lies and him telling you that you are crazy for choosing to destroy the marriage.

Don’t buy that trash.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

abbylou said:


> I don't know what I'm scared of! I've always been non-confrontational, but this time I think I'm scared to rock the boat. But then I think, what is worse...a life of rugsweeping this behavior and living with anxiety and mistrust, or one big confrontation and get it over with! This is huge! Maybe I'm scared of falsely accusing him even though the evidence is very strong. I only told him about the notes I found, but now I think I should SHOW him the pictures I took of them and ask him to explain himself.


He will lie about anything you confront him with, you have to be very deliberate in focusing on the truth. You seem to already doubt yourself, and he will play on that. 

As for contacting the OW. Maybe she doesn’t know about you, or maybe he’s told her that you are crazy, and he’s trying to leave you but doesn’t want to destroy his financial situation. Maybe he told her once he leaves you he will marry her but he has to do it right. (Even if he never planned on leaving you.) You have to be prepared to be lied to by her as well in that case… but I hope you get some information. Good luck!


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

He is actively on dating sites. He never mentioned this woman to you. If it was innocent he would have told you, “Hey, you wouldn’t believe what happened, told you all about it and together you would have figured out how to delete the app, which, btw, is as simple as deleting it on your phone or not looking at it on your computer - which he clearly logs in to. My 15 year old could have come up with a better lie. I’m very sorry he’s doing this to you, unfortunately, I’d bet my front door it’s not the first time because if it was he’d be more nervous about you questioning it. It doesn’t even sound like he panicked when you brought it up, which means he’s sure he can keep suckering you or he doesn’t really care if you find out but he’s not going to admit it until he has to. How awful that this is who he is and that he’s upending your life without a second thought. He’s an A1 jerk.


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

Thank you everyone for your input. 

I contacted the OW this morning. She had no idea and wanted to call me right away. We talked about what we knew and both found out about his secret lives he was living with each of us. Not only were some of his friends covering for him, but several of his immediate family were too including the one who had the baby. This infuriates me! Especially since they all act like they love me and I'm so great. The OW has gone no contact already on her own free will.

There are a hundred other options to address the problems in our relationship or the many ways we could break up in a civil manner. Why did it have to get this far!?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

abbylou said:


> Is anyone here an airline worker or a travel agent? Maybe you can clarify if this is a ridiculous cover-up. Another suspicious behavior that I forgot to mention is that during this most recent trip we all agreed we missed each other and he was homesick and he should come home earlier. He was originally supposed to come home on Sunday, the 30th. Then he decided to try to come home earlier but after hours talking to the airline, the earliest he could get to come back was Saturday the 29th AT MIDNIGHT, so not rolling into our driveway till 1 or 2 am on the 30th anyway. Unfortunately I did not see the original itinerary, so I don't know if he even attempted to change his flight at all. The reason for the struggle to change his flight was apparently because he booked with a third party agent and they were super hard to work with.
> 
> This does not make sense to me because first of all, it's EUROPE...not like a super rare trip to some far off uninhabited island. Flights to and from Europe and USA happen every single day. Secondly, he had already changed his his flight dates about 2 times from home before he even left! Never once mentioned a single problem with those changes!


I was a travel agent in the pre-pandemic era, but I don't know how things have changed since. It is more difficult to work with 3rd party, but that's a matter of convenience depending on their hours of operation, not because they're hard to work with. 

He'd have had to contact them and let them broker the change with the airline or if he was particularly insistent, be conferences in with the airline. His claims of trying to make changes himself for flights made through a third party don't sound right, if that's the excuse he's using. Some airlines will deal directly with the customer anyway, but only after they agree to pay fees and assume all responsibility for any changes made. 

It's impossible to verify his story without a copy of his itinerary, and you couldn't anyway because they wouldn't speak to you at all unless you were booked with him.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

abbylou said:


> Thank you everyone for your input.
> 
> I contacted the OW this morning. She had no idea and wanted to call me right away. We talked about what we knew and both found out about his secret lives he was living with each of us. Not only were some of his friends covering for him, but several of his immediate family were too including the one who had the baby. This infuriates me! Especially since they all act like they love me and I'm so great. The OW has gone no contact already on her own free will.
> 
> There are a hundred other options to address the problems in our relationship or the many ways we could break up in a civil manner. Why did it have to get this far!?


Wow. I'm sorry; it's one thing to suspect and another to get confirmation; you must be devastated. 

They sound like a bunch of liars and deceivers, which tells you all you need to know. Is the OW able to give you any evidence? E-mails, texts, dates he visited, etc? If you can, hold your temper and think about what you want and what you're going to do before confronting him. If that even serves you now. 

Your WH sounds like a master manipulator and has full family support. Don't be surprised if they close ranks around him and shut you out. 

Can you arrange an emergency session with your IC to help you process your feelings?


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Wow. I'm sorry; it's one thing to suspect and another to get confirmation; you must be devastated.
> 
> They sound like a bunch of liars and deceivers, which tells you all you need to know. Is the OW able to give you any evidence? E-mails, texts, dates he visited, etc? If you can, hold your temper and think about what you want and what you're going to do before confronting him. If that even serves you now.
> 
> ...


Luckily I schedule the IC a few days ago and I'm heading there now. It will be very helpful considering I'm in the midst of it all right now. 

I didn't procure any evidence from the OW but we planned another video call later this week. We were both pretty shocked at the extent of the dual life. Thank you for mentioning this. I will reach out again and ask her not to delete any of their text messages yet. 

Fortunately I've been pretty calm, but my anxiety comes in uncomfortable ways like a fever blister on my lip, the anxious closed throat feeling, and rapid heart beat. Was shaking when I first contacted her though but after talking, that stopped. I've held back free-flowing tears until a little bit ago I witnessed a car crash and called 911--a totally unrelated stressor (everyone was okay!). Hopefully I hold it together in counseling session in 45 min....and tonight when he comes home from work!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Bust his azz ….. and don’t believe a word he says !!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

abbylou said:


> Luckily I schedule the IC a few days ago and I'm heading there now. It will be very helpful considering I'm in the midst of it all right now.
> 
> I didn't procure any evidence from the OW but we planned another video call later this week. We were both pretty shocked at the extent of the dual life. Thank you for mentioning this. I will reach out again and ask her not to delete any of their text messages yet.
> 
> Fortunately I've been pretty calm, but my anxiety comes in uncomfortable ways like a fever blister on my lip, the anxious closed throat feeling, and rapid heart beat. Was shaking when I first contacted her though but after talking, that stopped. I've held back free-flowing tears until a little bit ago I witnessed a car crash and called 911--a totally unrelated stressor (everyone was okay!). Hopefully I hold it together in counseling session in 45 min....and tonight when he comes home from work!


Thank God! Therapy was my lifeline in processing my feelings and thoughts and helped me become "unstuck". You sound like you're in good shape, mentally; you'll be ok even if it doesn't feel like it this minute.

Don't worry about holding it together during your session, freely express yourself and feel what you feel. You mentioned you're usually home a few hours earlier than your WH anyway, so you can pull yourself together in that time. 

Look at you, able to empathize with other people and come through for them, despite being in your own crisis. Please remember this and hold onto it, if you find yourself wallowing in self-pity and having low self-esteem, which is bound to hit you at some point. 

Hang in there! Be kind to yourself and don't feel you need to act on any timetable. After what he put you through, he can stew a little wondering what's up.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

abbylou said:


> Luckily I schedule the IC a few days ago and I'm heading there now. It will be very helpful considering I'm in the midst of it all right now.
> 
> I didn't procure any evidence from the OW but we planned another video call later this week. We were both pretty shocked at the extent of the dual life. Thank you for mentioning this. I will reach out again and ask her not to delete any of their text messages yet.
> 
> Fortunately I've been pretty calm, but my anxiety comes in uncomfortable ways like a fever blister on my lip, the anxious closed throat feeling, and rapid heart beat. Was shaking when I first contacted her though but after talking, that stopped. I've held back free-flowing tears until a little bit ago I witnessed a car crash and called 911--a totally unrelated stressor (everyone was okay!). Hopefully I hold it together in counseling session in 45 min....and tonight when he comes home from work!


What are you going to do? (About your husband)


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

abbylou said:


> Thank you everyone for your input.
> 
> I contacted the OW this morning. She had no idea and wanted to call me right away. We talked about what we knew and both found out about his secret lives he was living with each of us. Not only were some of his friends covering for him, but several of his immediate family were too including the one who had the baby. This infuriates me! Especially since they all act like they love me and I'm so great. The OW has gone no contact already on her own free will.
> 
> There are a hundred other options to address the problems in our relationship or the many ways we could break up in a civil manner. Why did it have to get this far!?


That's gnarly.
Best to assume that if he is still breathing, he is still lying.
Find the best lawyer you can and go at it.


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## Amanhasnoname (Apr 1, 2021)

I'm so sorry for what you're going through Abbylou, my heart aches for you.
I'm sorry to say the probability by the things you say in your posts is that this behavior you have just discovered has been going on for some considerable time, it doesn't seem to me as if he just started acting like this out of the blue. 
You have to steel yourself that what you have found so far is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg (and it really does pain me to say this).

I advise you as hard as it may be, to not cry in front of him or beg him to not leave you, some cheaters gain a perverse pleasure from this and it gives them a feeling of power. Show him you are not some meek little woman who will stand for his disgusting actions.

Get very angry, get your divorce papers in order ASAP and have him served. If you do decide you can work through this at a later date the divorce procedure can always be stopped, although pesonally this would be a deal breaker for me! 
Look up the 180 and as others have said, don't believe a single word he says unless you can verify it by your own means beyond any doubt.

You need to look after yourself now, drink plenty of water, eat small tasty, nutrious meals (I'm sure you've got no appetite at all at the moment) if you can't eat anything get a supply of liquid meal replacements. Not sure if you drink or not but don't start boozing to excess, alcohol never is the answer and at best is only a very temporary pain blocker.
See your Dr. to get some meds. to help you sleep, again get off these asap once you begin to get over the shock of what you are dealing with.

We're thinking of you and sending strength, all the very best.


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

Guys...he had been renting an apartment downtown in our city and using it as an AirBnB! When I though he was in another state and I thought she had come to visit him there...It was actually in OUR OWN CITY! 😭. He said he only had the apartment for 2 months, but I don't even know if that's true! It could still be rented out in his name!


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

abbylou said:


> Guys...he had been renting an apartment downtown in our city and using it as an AirBnB! When I though he was in another state and I thought she had come to visit him there...It was actually in OUR OWN CITY! 😭. He said he only had the apartment for 2 months, but I don't even know if that's true! It could still be rented out in his name!


At this point you know he is a liar.
Don't believe anything he tells you.

In fact, don't ask him anything or even talk to him more than you _must_. it will only bring you pain.
Go to a lawyer and start removing the person you don't even know from your life.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I’m so sorry Mrs. Who.

Don’t get yourself caught up inside the hamster wheel going round and round with needing truth and explanation. The trickle truth and lies will melt your brain.

You already have more than you need. Get the lawyer. Get it done. Don’t get stuck in neutral gear.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Also get a forensic accountant (through your lawyer possibly) to track down all his money and assets. If he can hide an apartment, he can hide a hell of a lot more.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

abbylou said:


> Guys...he had been renting an apartment downtown in our city and using it as an AirBnB! When I though he was in another state and I thought she had come to visit him there...It was actually in OUR OWN CITY! 😭. He said he only had the apartment for 2 months, but I don't even know if that's true! It could still be rented out in his name!


Wow, this man is pathological and has zero respect for you!

abbylou, how about scheduling a doctor's appointment? Not only do you need to get checked for STD's, but it would be a good idea to get a checkup and maybe some help to cope with the shock and stress.

It's good that you consulted with a lawyer already. Even if you do not wish to proceed with divorce atm, it would be a good idea to ask for a list of everything you need and collect everything while he doesn't know what all you know, it'll be more difficult later if you need his cooperation.

I know it's been a huge shock, you may even feel too stunned to move, but you need to start thinking a few moves ahead. What are you going to do about your living situation, how you're going to handle it if he comes at you for sex/comfort, how are you going to cope financially?

Do you have any children? Are you working? I know it's a lot of think about, but time to take care of you. You know enough.


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

Amanhasnoname said:


> I'm so sorry for what you're going through Abbylou, my heart aches for you.
> I'm sorry to say the probability by the things you say in your posts is that this behavior you have just discovered has been going on for some considerable time, it doesn't seem to me as if he just started acting like this out of the blue.
> You have to steel yourself that what you have found so far is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg (and it really does pain me to say this).
> 
> ...


Thank you so much @Amanhasnoname. I have definitely had decreased appetite and I have 0 desire for alcohol, which is good. I don't know what's the truth and what's a lie anymore.


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Wow, this man is pathological and has zero respect for you!
> 
> abbylou, how about scheduling a doctor's appointment? Not only do you need to get checked for STD's, but it would be a good idea to get a checkup and maybe some help to cope with the shock and stress.
> 
> ...


Thank you @TXTrini . I've got help with a therapist (first time going and it was a good experience). Will schedule a doctor check up soon as I can get in. 

To be honest, I've suspected the affair for some time. I truly thought he would come clean when I approached him, but he didn't which made me more sad than shocked. The shocking thing to me is how his family covered for him and the fact that he was renting a second apartment in downtown. He didn't have to go that far! It's all ridiculous.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

abbylou said:


> Thank you @TXTrini . I've got help with a therapist (first time going and it was a good experience). Will schedule a doctor check up soon as I can get in.
> 
> To be honest, I've suspected the affair for some time. I truly thought he would come clean when I approached him, but he didn't which made me more sad than shocked. The shocking thing to me is how his family covered for him and the fact that he was renting a second apartment in downtown. He didn't have to go that far! It's all ridiculous.


Thank goodness. Ok self-care, check. It might sound inane, but you have to find a way to relax enough to sleep and get sustenance. I lived on protein shakes for a while.

Unfortunately, it's not shocking to me. I'm STILL dealing with harassment from my exH's family, and we'll have been divorced for 3 years in March. They knew a lot more about me, including the fact he apparently had a complete wardrobe including work uniforms at their house. Blood is thicker than water, it's times like this that shows you what people really think of you.

Anyway, none of them matter anymore. I don't mean to badger you, but are you able to support yourself and kids if you have any? Things can get very nasty and much worse if you don't take care of business.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

abbylou said:


> Thank you @TXTrini . I've got help with a therapist (first time going and it was a good experience). Will schedule a doctor check up soon as I can get in.
> 
> To be honest, I've suspected the affair for some time. I truly thought he would come clean when I approached him, but he didn't which made me more sad than shocked. The shocking thing to me is how his family covered for him and the fact that he was renting a second apartment in downtown. He didn't have to go that far! It's all ridiculous.


They rarely come clean at discovery. Their first thought is, how little can they get away with? Maybe the betrayed spouse knows very little and the wayward spouse can admit to something minor and try to get away with it. For anyone comfortable with lying, this comes naturally, without having to think about it. They wayward spouse is thinking about themself first, not you.

This is not about you. It’s about him.


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Thank goodness. Ok self-care, check. It might sound inane, but you have to find a way to relax enough to sleep and get sustenance. I lived on protein shakes for a while.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's not shocking to me. I'm STILL dealing with harassment from my exH's family, and we'll have been divorced for 3 years in March. They knew a lot more about me, including the fact he apparently had a complete wardrobe including work uniforms at their house. Blood is thicker than water, it's times like this that shows you what people really think of you.
> 
> Anyway, none of them matter anymore. I don't mean to badger you, but are you able to support yourself and kids if you have any? Things can get very nasty and much worse if you don't take care of business.


Yes I’m able to support myself and our child. We both have FT jobs and make about the same, but I’m salary and he’s hourly. I have a side gig I’m trying to build but it’s hard to put effort into it right now and it hasn’t really turned a significant profit. We share bills 50/50, so if I had to pay everything, it would be tight but manageable.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

abbylou said:


> Yes I’m able to support myself and our child. We both have FT jobs and make about the same, but I’m salary and he’s hourly. I have a side gig I’m trying to build but it’s hard to put effort into it right now and it hasn’t really turned a significant profit. We share bills 50/50, so if I had to pay everything, it would be tight but manageable.


Good, at least you're not trapped. Please, do whatever you decide is best for you and your child. Don't worry about building it just yet, next thing you end up owing him alimony to add insult to injury.


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## abbylou (3 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> They rarely come clean at discovery. Their first thought is, how little can they get away with? Maybe the betrayed spouse knows very little and the wayward spouse can admit to something minor and try to get away with it. For anyone comfortable with lying, this comes naturally, without having to think about it. They wayward spouse is thinking about themself first, not you.
> 
> This is not about you. It’s about him.


You are totally right @Casual Observer ! I thought about that after our long conversation last night which was my second confrontation in which I told him I had contacted the OW and knew the truth. The first confrontation was lies and denials. Lots of statements and clues bringing the conversation back to himself.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

abbylou said:


> You are totally right @Casual Observer ! I thought about that after our long conversation last night which was my second confrontation in which I told him I had contacted the OW and knew the truth. The first confrontation was lies and denials. Lots of statements and clues bringing the conversation back to himself.


The more you talk to him about this, the more lies, blame shifting, and minimizing you will hear.

If you’re going to stay with him in spite of his second life, then go to marriage counseling and maybe you can find a way to accept OW.

But if you’re not ok with it (and you shouldn't be), then stop talking and start walking. First to a lawyer to initiate divorce.

Any other path through this mess leaves you vulnerable to more manipulation and lies.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

That apartment downtown was likely used for other one night stands, and/or trysts with ladies he met online.

He is a serial cheater.

His favorite cereals are _Trix and F. Flakes._


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