# The Alpha Female



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Well, I try to be very careful posting in the Ladies Lounge since I am only allowed to post no more then 3 topics over a 2 year span (gotta make sure I have content worth posting about!!!). Just came across this article (by a female author) which basically states that the Alpha female is bar none the best girlfriend you could even have ... 



> A strong alpha female might seem intimidating at first, but there’s more to her than just her fiercely strong persona. The alpha female, if you dare dabble, is the best girlfriend you’ll ever have. Here are just a few reasons why:
> 
> 1. SHE’LL ALWAYS BE 100% UPFRONT WITH WHO SHE IS.
> You never have to guess if she’s putting on a front just to reel you in, because she doesn’t really care what you think. She’ll be her authentic self because she lives by the mantra, “Take me as I am, or watch me as I go.” She holds her dignity in high regard and doesn’t feel the need to act innocent and fragile just to avoid scaring you off.
> ...


The two items in particular that stuck out to me:

(1 - Point #3) the assumption that every guy wants a girl who lives in the "fast lane" and someone who isn't can't possibly be fun to be with.

(2 - Point #9) I am a strong believer in not letting yourself go as best you can. However, it seems questionable to imply that in order to be the best version of yourself you need to keep up your appearance/image at almost all times (maybe get allocated a day or two to be "lazy"

So ... thoughts?










Why An Alpha Female Is The Best Girlfriend You?ll Ever Have


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Well, I try to be very careful posting in the Ladies Lounge since I am only allowed to post no more then 3 topics over a 2 year span (gotta make sure I have content worth posting about!!!). Just came across this article (by a female author) which basically states that the Alpha female is bar none the best girlfriend you could even have ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a bit of a revelation to read, because this describes my wife perfectly! So I guess she's an alpha female. I do agree somewhat with your objection to point #3, because she can and does enjoy leisure time, but is constantly bettering herself as well. She's a lot of fun, but in a quieter way. She's more the introvert, I'd say, so prefers small gatherings over larger social events. As for #9, she keeps up her appearance, and has always been athletic and presentable - I don't think #9 means 24x7, anyway.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think Point #5 is...interesting. Yes, if her partner won't do what needs to be done, a woman who knows her worth will absolutely figure out a way to get it done herself. And, no, she doesn't have the time or inclination to nag her partner. But I find it interesting that the author failed to point out that the same woman who won't nag you about forgetting to do things that need to be done, will also drop you like a hot rock if your "forgetting to do things that need to be done" becomes anything approaching a pattern. Because while she won't nag because she shouldn't have to, she also won't put up with a partner who seems to _need_ to be nagged in order to get things done. 


And, yes, Point 3 describes someone that can actually be exhausting to live with. And, I also don't think it's necessarily true. Plenty of strong women who meet all of the other points on this list just aren't really the fast-lane type. They don't need to be, they're personality doesn't require it, and they don't care what anyone else thinks.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

I'd have to say I'm an alpha female. Number 6 though... (SHE WON’T GIVE UP ON THE IMPORTANT THINGS). I started out nagging about things and just said eff it and now do it myself. I respect the struggle but I can't help remind myself there are abt 3.5 billion men in this world, I just ain't got the time to waste. 

I'm now learning to value relationships beyond sex. It's a tough, tough road.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

My wife and I shared an alpha girlfriend. She was most of what you posted. She was with us for 30 years of our 44 year marriage. My wife was very submissive and all my former girlfriends are alpha. My wife was the first frail submissive woman I dated. Great wife and would try anything I asked her to, but our alpha girlfriend was more dominant in the bedroom playing sadist to my masochist. 

My wife never got jealous because she knew that I would never leave her for her girlfriend. She was right about that. Two dominant personalities will clash. In most things someone has to be in charge, have the final say. Militaries, governments, clubs and marriages need to have someone in charge.

Judging from all the posts by males in sex relationed forums, there are many men looking for a take charge alpha female. Seems like modern society has produced a lot of males looking to be sexually dominated and a growing group of alpha females willing to do so. Same with the non sexual parts of a marriage. I have nephews married to dominant alpha women who lead the marriage in and out of bed. Personally I like to be dominated only in the bedroom. Outside of that I am my old alpha self and will be on an equal footing with my Mistress. In fact, every woman who dominated me in the last 47 years was submissive to me in the relationship. That is not a rare occurrence.


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## hylton7 (Jan 24, 2017)

I agree with some of it especially point 1 and 3


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This has some of the same issues as the "alpha male" discussions. It seems to be a collection of positive traits, some of which have little do do with the normal definition of "alpha". 

How is "living in the fast lane", a trait of alpha primates?

All the traits listed are good. I just don't think alpha applies well to humans in modern society


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Anything described as 'alpha' always makes me think of milk because this was in my home town. The Alpha Dairy. Tallest thing in town for a looooooong time


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Anything described as 'alpha' always makes me think of milk because this was in my home town. The Alpha Dairy.  Tallest thing in town for a looooooong time


LOL. I wonder if the phallic resemblance was deliberate. I'd definitely be the kid calling it Alpha **** Milk.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

#10 is only true when you understand that the person any alpha loves the most is themselves.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> #10 is only true when you understand that the person any alpha loves the most is themselves.


Dead wrong. Alphas aren't necessarily narcissists. But healthy alphas do have healthy self-esteem.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> I'd have to say I'm an alpha female. Number 6 though... (SHE WON’T GIVE UP ON THE IMPORTANT THINGS). I started out nagging about things and just said eff it and now do it myself. I respect the struggle but I can't help remind myself there are abt 3.5 billion men in this world, I just ain't got the time to waste.
> 
> *I'm now learning to value relationships beyond sex. It's a tough, tough road.*


I would ask you to extrapolate, to expound.......more!

But, I am too bashful.

I would rather let my imagination run up and down your road.....

Just sayin'


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

You hooked me with that killer GIF. 😂😂😂

Reading your opener....now I'm not sure if I am an alpha female, or maybe I have aspergers based on that other thread. 

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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> I would ask you to extrapolate, to expound.......more!
> 
> But, I am too bashful.
> 
> ...


Super sexual, assertive female. Grew up with a whole lot of good for nothing examples of men/relationships. Decided it was easiest valuing men based on sexual skill as it didn't seem they had much else offer. 

Currently in the process of being proved wrong with.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> Dead wrong. Alphas aren't necessarily narcissists. *But* healthy alphas do have healthy self-esteem.


And that one word is why I'm not all that wrong. Alphas are very good at writing this kind of propaganda. In this case the author glazed over the idea that in order to get the very best Duo, an Alpha will upgrade to gain less than 1%. From the outside it is much easier to see this. 
I've always seen faithfulness as the Achilles heal of the Alpha type. 
esteeming ones self is loving ones self.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Then your experience is totally different than mine, @Mr. Nail. My wife matches the alpha female description, yet is very faithful to me. Is she a rare exception? I very much doubt it. You also seem to be misunderstanding the difference between narcissism and self-esteem.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Dead wrong. Alphas aren't necessarily narcissists. But healthy alphas do have healthy self-esteem.


This phrase hit me as very alpha, though 

_You never have to guess if she’s putting on a front just to reel you in,* because she doesn’t really care what you think*._

Maybe not all alphas are narcissists, but all narcissists have this trait in common...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*My RSXW definitely presented signs of being a preeminent Alpha female as all of those by the author of that article so indicated!

And she fastly remained so, only up until the time that her multi-cheating was discovered and I had grown tired of placating the drug habits of all three of her worthless, tatted, dropout, juvenile, courtroom parading, often incarcerated, drug head, children of hers!

Which made me think that perhaps the author left out an important 11th one: Alpha females like to drop their drawers for men who are not their husbands!*


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I agree with this, and I used to be an Alpha, Type A or whatever you wanna call it. 

But 25 years married to a difficult man can change you, you get tired of the constant 'challenges.' and when you have kids, some things have to give. 
Many men have fragile egos though they themselves may be Alpha, it took me years to figure that out about my H. If he was alpha he should be able to take direct feedback, but he is not. His ego needs to be stroked and he would get offended then come back a few days later and confirm (via his friend) what i had been saying all along. 
So I think many men like the idea of such a woman but their egos cannot cope with an Alpha female


Though the old me is gone I do notice the old me is coming back, I guess it is because I am losing all the estrogen


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *My RSXW definitely presented signs of being a preeminent Alpha female as all of those by the author of that article so indicated!
> 
> And she fastly remained so, only up until the time that her multi-cheating was discovered and I had grown tired of placating the drug habits of all three of her worthless, tatted, dropout, juvenile, often incarcerated, drug head, children of hers!
> 
> Which made me think that perhaps the author left out an important 11th one: Alpha females like to drop their drawers for men who are not their husbands!*


I don't agree with this. One can be an Alpha female and have morals! :grin2:


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## MrRight (Apr 17, 2017)

Interesting definition of wha constitutes an "alpha" female - I hate the term by the way. It seems to imply that alpha females are the best and the rest are just lemons.

but anyway - I first heard this term used by a friend - referring to a conversation with a friend about women my friend told him - get an alpha female - he said - I've got one - she is chief anaesthetist at xxx hospital - earns - mega bucks etc.

So in his view this was a characteristic of an alpha female - career high flier and big earner. maybe there are other characteristics - but this, to him - was cited and one must assume because it was the most prized.

did not see that in the list though it is implied in #3.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

There is a very thin line between this upfront,challenging,self confident,never gives up,self iniating woman who doesn't give up on you and doesn't let herself go and an in your face,bossy,bullying,egotistical,high maintenance pain in the ass who only has sex on her terms.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

EasyPartner said:


> This phrase hit me as very alpha, though
> 
> _You never have to guess if she’s putting on a front just to reel you in,* because she doesn’t really care what you think*._
> 
> Maybe not all alphas are narcissists, but all narcissists have this trait in common...


Dead wrong, too! Buzzz! Narcissists do not have _healthy_ self-esteem. Healthy people of ALL kinds have healthy self-esteem.

You seem to be confusing the alpha female definition with sociopathy, and that is clearly not true except by coincidence. (BTW, I agree with @MrRight that the term "alpha" is counterproductive for men and women.) Going by the OPs list and article, my wife is alpha, and while she never puts on a front, she genuinely cares what I think and solicits my input on just about everything. The article is wrong on this point's corollary, so I'm glad you pointed that out. She doesn't care what *other* people think though, unless they have earned her respect. Healthy people - including many alphas - are secure enough to want other opinions. Perhaps you are getting your wrong-minded view from the stereotype of alpha males using women and discarding them (which some do, of course).


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

aine said:


> I don't agree with this. One can be an Alpha female and have morals! :grin2:


*Please help me to understand this better! So being an Alpha female is completely irrelevant to the morals cycle? Or are all Alpha females moral, truthful, and faithful people?

Or like most all other segments of society, do you have the Alpha females who randomly and covertly cheat and lie, right alongside those who are vehemently faithful to their spouses and their family?

Much like the Alpha male, common sense dictates that they, if absolutely forced to, will cheat and lie to get whatever it is out of society that they need in order to thrive!*


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

IMO, alpha women are those who don't mind stepping on other people on the way up to get what they want BUT also know how to play it with people who have better boundaries or people who they think they might want around for longer.

I've noticed over on askmen that when women themselves as "independent", it's interpreted as "a pain in the a$$." I would say the same about "alpha."


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I find it fascinating that it seems that many men find 'alpha male' to be a good thing, but an 'alpha female' is a _problem_, a narcissist, a *****. Tell me again, fellas, why a smart, driven, independent woman who is upfront and honest, loyal, self-reliant, fun to be around, doesn't nag or let herself go, initiates, and is willing to stick with you through challenging times is a negative? Isn't this list describing the "unicorn" that men always say they're looking for but can't find? 

Is the reality of having to actually keep up with such a woman in the real world not nearly as much fun for many men as saying they want her and complaining about not being able to find her?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Rowan said:


> I find it fascinating that it seems that many men find 'alpha male' to be a good thing, but an 'alpha female' is a _problem_, a narcissist, a *****. Tell me again, fellas, why a smart, driven, independent woman who is upfront and honest, loyal, self-reliant, fun to be around, doesn't nag or let herself go, initiates, and is willing to stick with you through challenging times is a negative? Isn't this list describing the "unicorn" that men always say they're looking for but can't find?
> 
> Is the reality of having to actually keep up with such a woman in the real world not nearly as much fun for many men as saying they want her and complaining about not being able to find her?


The problem for a lot of men and I include myself in this is eventually it is a competition,who earns the most,who has the better education,the biggest bonus.I have known some of these Alpha females and I don't know any of them who has had a successful marriage,it may look great from the outside but someone has to defer to the other in the end.
They can't stop looking for something bigger,better,faster etc,it is tiring trying to keep up.If and when they meet someone completely out of their league earnings wise it upsets the apple cart and they can't cope.There is only room for one Alpha in any relationship.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Rowan said:


> I find it fascinating that it seems that many men find 'alpha male' to be a good thing, but an 'alpha female' is a _problem_, a narcissist, a *****. Tell me again, fellas, why a smart, driven, independent woman who is upfront and honest, loyal, self-reliant, fun to be around, doesn't nag or let herself go, initiates, and is willing to stick with you through challenging times is a negative? Isn't this list describing the "unicorn" that men always say they're looking for but can't find?
> 
> Is the reality of having to actually keep up with such a woman in the real world not nearly as much fun for many men as saying they want her and complaining about not being able to find her?


I think the issue, and @uhtred hit on this as well, the "alpha" label is stupid and subjective, just as is the "beta" label. Basically, the author here is taking traits she finds desirable and labels them "alpha", probably to prop herself up (just look at her opening sentence, the alpha girl is the best girlfriend a guy could ever have...). Most, if not all people are probably a mix of "alpha" and "beta" (how much of each of course will vary by person). Would you really want to be with someone who was 100% "alpha" or 100% "beta"???

When I look at the list, not everything there is IMO "alpha". Some of the stuff I would find desirable, other traits not so much.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The issue is adaptibility, not labels....


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

This description is very much me and while I'm proud of these qualities they do intimidate most men. Thankfully I found one more alpha than I am, that loves these things about me and isn't intimidated in the least. 


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Personally I prefer omicron women.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

happysnappy said:


> This description is very much me and while I'm proud of these qualities they do intimidate most men. Thankfully I found one more alpha than I am, that loves these things about me and isn't intimidated in the least.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That tattoo in your picture would intimidate me,must have hurt.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> That tattoo in your picture would intimidate me,must have hurt.




Bahahaha. That is not me at all in the pic


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> The problem for a lot of men and I include myself in this is eventually it is a competition,who earns the most,who has the better education,the biggest bonus.I have known some of these Alpha females and I don't know any of them who has had a successful marriage,it may look great from the outside but someone has to defer to the other in the end.
> 
> They can't stop looking for something bigger,better,faster etc,it is tiring trying to keep up.If and when they meet someone completely out of their league earnings wise it upsets the apple cart and they can't cope.There is only room for one Alpha in any relationship.




This is super on target. Thankfully with age comes wisdom and understanding. It took me into my 30's before I fully grasped the concept of contentment 


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

aine said:


> I agree with this, and I used to be an Alpha, Type A or whatever you wanna call it.
> 
> But 25 years married to a difficult man can change you, you get tired of the constant 'challenges.' and when you have kids, some things have to give.
> Many men have fragile egos though they themselves may be Alpha, it took me years to figure that out about my H. If he was alpha he should be able to take direct feedback, but he is not. His ego needs to be stroked and he would get offended then come back a few days later and confirm (via his friend) what i had been saying all along.
> ...


Yeppir.

A wise statement. Older women lose patience, lose some of their feminine edges. 

The funny thing....what they lose in F, their male partners gain in F in equal amounts. The roles seem to reverse.

There was a nice German lady a couple houses from us. We knew her forever. She went from sweet to sour. She grew a mustache, I kid you not.
And that old lady loved me til the end. Must be the sweet and sour in me.

Just sayin'


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

That article is a very one-sided (ie, flattering and positive) portrayal of 'Alpha Women.'

She neglects to mention all the ways in which those great qualities can turn on you if she starts seeing her partner as less 'alpha' than she is. Most women don't enjoy 'wearing the pants' all the time. 

And most women will have kids. I have seen very few women who are able to maintain all those solely-positive 'alpha' aspects of themselves once they are exhausted from chasing around after the rugrats 24/7. They may still be 'alpha', but it won't present in anywhere near such desirable ways.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i think the problem comes in trying to define what an 'alpha' is (whether male or female).

in biology, the 'alpha' term is given to those individuals within social animal groups that lead the group.
they have the physical attributes, the mental toughness and tenacity and confidence.
beyond that, there is not that much description. so then, the problem comes in when human sociologists try to 
construct a narrow human definition and that's where it breaks down.

so, in my view a natural 'alpha' is a leader of men and women. beyond that their can be positive traits and negative.
they can be narcissists, but they can also be caring. there is a wide gamut of individual attributes within that definition of 'leader'.

there can be 'bad' leaders and 'good' ones. faithful ones and selfish ones. 

same goes for alpha males and alpha females.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> The problem for a lot of men and I include myself in this is eventually it is a competition,who earns the most,who has the better education,the biggest bonus.I have known some of these Alpha females and I don't know any of them who has had a successful marriage,it may look great from the outside but someone has to defer to the other in the end.
> They can't stop looking for something bigger,better,faster etc,it is tiring trying to keep up.If and when they meet someone completely out of their league earnings wise it upsets the apple cart and they can't cope.There is only room for one Alpha in any relationship.


Interesting. Why does it need to be a competition? And why does that competition need to end up with a winner and a loser?

Certainly men who can't handle the idea of a woman being smart and successful, maybe even a bit smarter and more successful then he is, shouldn't marry someone like that. That much is true.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

wild jade said:


> Interesting. Why does it need to be a competition? And why does that competition need to end up with a winner and a loser?
> 
> Certainly men who can't handle the idea of a woman being smart and successful, maybe even a bit smarter and more successful then he is, shouldn't marry someone like that. That much is true.


I am only speaking from my own experience here.What I found with these A type women was that they were never satisfied and were always pushing for more.They didn't seem to have an off button.I'm not implying that anyone should "settle"but eventually the constant pushing for more gets tiring.
Now I believe that women are smarter than men in a lot of situations but here is the rub.When you meet a women at the very top of the ladder in business they can lack the empathy that men in the same situation have.You have probably heard the term ball buster used and this is where it comes from.It's probably because a woman has to fight much harder to succeed in what is still a mans world and they get toughened up on the journey.But it also leaves them alone at the top because they may have alienated a lot of people on the way.And because women by their very nature are more emotionally affected than men in a given situation they tend to bring their problems home with them which affects their home and family life.
Then again I could be spouting rubbish,wouldn't be the first time.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)




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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

wild jade said:


> Interesting. Why does it need to be a competition? And why does that competition need to end up with a winner and a loser?
> 
> Certainly men who can't handle the idea of a woman being smart and successful, maybe even a bit smarter and more successful then he is, shouldn't marry someone like that. That much is true.


That's not the problem.

In my experience, high strung career wise women are rarely satisfied with their job, always wanting more. There are natural and artificial limits to how high one can get. Men take it more in stride - with a PhD and decades experience I'm a lowly team leader of 8, not a director  - but it doesn't bother me. Women will likely take it differently.


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## MarriedWKids (Apr 26, 2017)

Obviously people are are complex and lists cannot apply 100% to anyone, but overall I loved this article and there are a lot of very true and positive points!


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

wild jade said:


> Certainly men who can't handle the idea of a woman being smart and successful, maybe even a bit smarter and more successful then he is, shouldn't marry someone like that. That much is true.


Most women I know do not respect men whom they feel are less smart and less successful than them, especially in those areas considered the domain of the 'masculine.' While they can love him for who he his, they probably won't respect him as a man.

And since earning and maintaining a woman's respect is critical to provoking and maintaining her desire, IME, I don't begrudge men who are wary about getting involved with a woman who is always one step ahead of him.

All of the strong, independent, dominant 'alpha' women I know desire men who are *more* strong, independent, and dominant than they are, not less. Most women want to feel 'taken care of' by their man and do not want to feel like they have to be the one to take care of him (their impulse to care and nurture is usually directed towards their children more than their husbands). That's why so many women talk disdainfully of their husbands being 'like a child' when they don't feel like he is 'manning up' properly (ie, being less of a man than they themselves feel they are being).


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Articles like this always come off sounding "Superior"....numerous articles on "ALPHA MEN" come off like this.... many of those had a "I don't give a care" attitude (like #1) or I have no need of you (#4).. then trying to tie it in with how devoted & wonderful they are (#10)...and how who you are with has to be "so awesome" to have you... . 

Same thing here...reading down that list.. many of us would find we identify with a good half or more (I do!)....but they may not all fit.. we may find we don't care for how it is written even, but still hold onto the ideal...how I am seeing some of these...

Like *#1*....


> "because she doesn’t really care what you think ..You never have to guess if she’s putting on a front just to reel you in. She’ll be her authentic self because she lives by the mantra, “Take me as I am, or watch me as I go.” ...


 I just don't care for how this is written... I see it this way... People DO need to be who they are...all for transparency, be REAL... so we have a good shot of finding a suitable partner who enjoys our quirks and can handle our faults , still loving us ....we all NEED that... but once you have established this.. this sort of attitude will slowly destroy a relationship, it comes off rather obnoxious ... taking a step back from caring about the mutual satisfaction of the other.. 

I find *#5* a little funny.. the nagging depends on what it is .. a woman who knows what's best for her early on -simply wouldn't stay with a lazy man she had to nag.. that's the bottom line, that would get old real quick......but then it mentions "petty things".. this makes a difference, basically maybe it is implying SHE is not a complainer (and that's good)...not sweating the small stuff (taking out the garbage, little things)... though big things.. like he's been lying, hiding things, car repairs need done while he won't get off his video games...No No No, a mature adult knows what's important & where priorities are. 

Don't really care for how *#4 *is written.. it's a slap on the hand of a woman who may be a "stay at Home".. or depend on her husband ... speaking how she needs "provided for"....as if this disqualifies her , she is now in a lesser position, less ALPHA .... such woman may also very much choose to be with their husbands... not out of obligation or a lowly need -as it is implied here... but an affectionate WANT and enjoyment .. One does not necessarily disqualify the other. 



EllisRedding said:


> (1 - Point #3) the assumption that every guy wants a girl who lives in the "fast lane" and someone who isn't can't possibly be fun to be with.
> 
> (2 - Point #9) I am a strong believer in not letting yourself go as best you can. However, it seems questionable to imply that in order to be the best version of yourself you need to keep up your appearance/image at almost all times (maybe get allocated a day or two to be "lazy"


 *#3 *is another downing.. one could look at ALPHA in terms of lifestyle or personality.. I think "Lifestyle" comes more into play with #3... some people always love to be "DOING".. it's like a rush to them...they may be more social creatures... but this doesn't mean a homebody can't have a "take charge" personality and still wear some Alphaness, even if he/ she doesn't have as much of a fast lane lifestyle or want that... 

*#10*... Very important to be Devoted & Loyal, so true... ..though I didn't care for the ending of this


> "Because she doesn’t live a mediocre life, she only wants what’s amazing. If she’s with you, you must be pretty amazing to capture her heart and attention."


 ..."Not living a mediocre life"..... sounds like a woman who is demanding of a higher class "AMAZING" lifestyle... and her man should be so honored to have her...(Narcissism anyone?)

Taking a step back... I feel it's important to see the beauty in the simple things in life.. this may be "Mediocre" to some...


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## Celtic (Apr 7, 2017)

wild jade said:


> Interesting. Why does it need to be a competition? And why does that competition need to end up with a winner and a loser?
> 
> Certainly men who can't handle the idea of a woman being smart and successful, maybe even a bit smarter and more successful then he is, shouldn't marry someone like that. That much is true.


But it's not always the man at fault. My partner has a lot of Alpha Female traits and at times it feels like she is focussed on competing against me rather than working with me. Her being smart and successful is one of the things that attracted me to her but (sometimes) the second I have any success of my own she feels the need to out perform me rather than enjoy our shared positivity together. It can feel exhausting. 

I have no problems in admitting when I'm wrong either (only human and all that) but she never will and that in turn makes her come across as arrogant, even though I know she isn't. Alas for some reason she sees me as a rival when all I've ever wanted to be is a partner. Some people are just wired like that, male or female regardless.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

john117 said:


> That's not the problem.
> 
> In my experience, high strung career wise women are rarely satisfied with their job, always wanting more. There are natural and artificial limits to how high one can get. Men take it more in stride - with a PhD and decades experience I'm a lowly team leader of 8, not a director  - but it doesn't bother me. Women will likely take it differently.


When I was employed what used to amaze me was the amount of people but women especially who never seemed to be finished studying for one thing or another.They had masters,coming out of their asses but were still aiming for more letters after their names.I had none but when the subject got around to money as it always does in these situations I was the best paid by a long way and also the youngest.This used to drive them crazy 😜.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Celtic said:


> But it's not always the man at fault. My partner has a lot of Alpha Female traits and at times it feels like she is focussed on competing against me rather than working with me. Her being smart and successful is one of the things that attracted me to her but (sometimes) the second I have any success of my own she feels the need to out perform me rather than enjoy our shared positivity together. It can feel exhausting.
> 
> I have no problems in admitting when I'm wrong either (only human and all that) but she never will and that in turn makes her come across as arrogant, even though I know she isn't. Alas for some reason she sees me as a rival when all I've ever wanted to be is a partner. Some people are just wired like that, male or female regardless.


This is exactly the point I was trying to make but you put it more eloquently than I could.One of the A types that worked under me a few years ago was incapable of admitting she was wrong about anything,even something meaningless.Even when I would point out something she had made an error in she couldn't accept it and would always make a passive aggressive remark such as she would take it under advisement or we will agree to differ.I never tried to correct her in front of other staff but it was impossible to reason with her.I eventually got fed up with her arrogance and fired her for insubordination.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

What I have found of the women who were in male tradtional careers like finance, law, accounting was that they were very dismissive of those women who not. Expressions like "just a housewife" were in common use among them. 

So Alpha woman are not very kind to their lesser paid sisters.

Any body ever see "Working Girl" 1989 with Sigourney Weaver and Melanie Griffin (and a few other stars).......


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> What I have found of the women who were in male tradtional careers like finance, law, accounting was that they were very dismissive of those women who not. Expressions like "just a housewife" were in common use among them.
> 
> So Alpha woman are not very kind to their lesser paid sisters.
> 
> Any body ever see "Working Girl" 1989 with Sigourney Weaver and Melanie Griffin (and a few other stars).......


Sigourney Weaver aka Ripley.Now that's an Alpha woman.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> When I was employed what used to amaze me was the amount of people but women especially who never seemed to be finished studying for one thing or another.They had masters,coming out of their asses but were still aiming for more letters after their names.I had none but when the subject got around to money as it always does in these situations I was the best paid by a long way and also the youngest.This used to drive them crazy 😜.


That is because you were born with that gift for X-ray vision into electrical circuits, and the need for only an hour's sleep at night. 

Those are true gifts, Andy. Few if any other people are wired like you are.

There is no reason for those women, or other men, for that matter, to compare themselves to you. Nature just doles out gifts as it chooses. The most important thing is to use those gifts for the benefit of the world.


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## Celtic (Apr 7, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> ...Even when I would point out something she had made an error in she couldn't accept it and would always make a passive aggressive remark such as she would take it under advisement or we will agree to differ.I never tried to correct her in front of other staff but it was impossible to reason with her.I eventually got fed up with her arrogance and fired her for insubordination.


This, so much this! I'll admit that I was very much the competitive sort during my first marriage but since then I've learned a lot about the importance of working together rather than against each other. If I'm making a sandwich (for example) and my GF tells me using a specific cheese with a specific ham will give it a better taste then I will. After all the end result is me getting a better tasting sandwich so that's a win right? If however the roles are reversed I'll either receive the passive aggressive "everyone has their own opinions" or if she's feeling particularly threatened she'd throw the sandwich away and eat a rotten egg instead. The phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind. Anything to make her feel in control and the 'alpha' again.

I've tried so many different approaches, I've tried explaining that I'm just trying to be helpful and not oppose her but now I find just sitting back and letting her make her own mistakes is the only way. It hurts seeing her dissaponted in herself but as long as she feels the need to compete against me, we can never work together.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Celtic said:


> This, so much this! I'll admit that I was very much the competitive sort during my first marriage but since then I've learned a lot about the importance of working together rather than against each other. If I'm making a sandwich (for example) and my GF tells me using a specific cheese with a specific ham will give it a better taste then I will. After all the end result is me getting a better tasting sandwich so that's a win right? If however the roles are reversed I'll either receive the passive aggressive "everyone has their own opinions" or if she's feeling particularly threatened she'd throw the sandwich away and eat a rotten egg instead. The phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind. Anything to make her feel in control and the 'alpha' again.
> 
> I've tried so many different approaches, I've tried explaining that I'm just trying to be helpful and not oppose her but now I find just sitting back and letting her make her own mistakes is the only way. It hurts seeing her dissaponted in herself but as long as she feels the need to compete against me, we can never work together.


I once pointed out to this woman that a change she was proposing on an installation that I designed could bring an entire city to a standstill.I did this in private,I never saw the need to correct anyone in front of colleagues.She just looked to heaven and said "whatever".I said straight away that I wasn't interested in dealing with her childish behaviour and she just looked at me and shrugged.Now this woman was an electronics engineer and she had a masters in digital media.Her attitude sucked big time and I warned her she was on thin ice.She made a smartass comment the next morning at our daily meeting about how it must be great to be in charge and nobody could question my decisions.
I fired her on the spot.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I saw in an e-mail that my husband's (ex) just a friend ex made remarks about my profession: "you can't make me jealous of a 50 year old divorced event planner." In the same e-mail she talked about how challenging her job as a social worker was.

I also figured out that my future husband asked me how much money I made because she wanted to know. There was a pattern of her comparing herself favorably to me. 

I think that's the crazy part of being an Alpha female. Why would anyone want to be the chosen one simply because they earned more money than the other "competitors?"

I think a man is truly in love when he chooses the less physically attractive; the poorer, less well connected and so on. 

As far as personal relationships, I think Alpha Women lose the plot.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> I saw in an e-mail that my husband's (ex) just a friend ex made remarks about my profession: "you can't make me jealous of a 50 year old divorced event planner." In the same e-mail she talked about how challenging her job as a social worker was.
> 
> I also figured out that my future husband asked me how much money I made because she wanted to know. There was a pattern of her comparing herself favorably to me.
> 
> ...


There is a movie called up in the air with George Clooney and Vera Farmiga.They are both highfliers and are constantly traveling.In one scene they are at a bar comparing their VIP lounge passes for various airports and George has the best ones.(as far as I can remember).
This scene really struck a chord with me because I have seen it so many times in real life.The Alpha woman would take it as a personal affront if anyone had a better pass than her,the men don't really care.You can only sit on one armchair and drink one drink at a time,that's my attitude but the Alpha woman sees it different.
When it comes to personal relationships they have to earn more than their husbands but then lose respect for him.A lot of A women never have children because they see them as an anchor on their career.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> I am only speaking from my own experience here.What I found with these A type women was that they were never satisfied and were always pushing for more.They didn't seem to have an off button.I'm not implying that anyone should "settle"but eventually the constant pushing for more gets tiring.
> Now I believe that women are smarter than men in a lot of situations but here is the rub.When you meet a women at the very top of the ladder in business they can lack the empathy that men in the same situation have.You have probably heard the term ball buster used and this is where it comes from.It's probably because a woman has to fight much harder to succeed in what is still a mans world and they get toughened up on the journey.But it also leaves them alone at the top because they may have alienated a lot of people on the way.And because women by their very nature are more emotionally affected than men in a given situation they tend to bring their problems home with them which affects their home and family life.
> Then again I could be spouting rubbish,wouldn't be the first time.


"Ballbuster" as I understand the term, means any woman who disagrees with a man who thinks women are by nature decorations, servants, or otherwise inferiors.

Notice, for example, that it is never just a "*****". Lots of women are indeed *****es, but it's only smart successful ones that have good ideas that are ever called ballbusters.

Not sure why you think women both lack empathy AND somehow are more emotional than men, and so yep, will have to agree it sounds like rubbish to me.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

The problem I have with describing a woman who is independent, smart, responsible, etc as ''alpha'' is that is typically a male term, so we just can't be all those things without being compared to men? This is the problem I have with feminism, it causes women to think that we need to compete with men. 

In relationships, I've always preferred men to lead, and that doesn't mean I become a doormat, it just means that I don't want to lead a guy. In relationships, you make decisions together, but there's still something to be said about masculine leadership. In reading some threads on here, some wives seem to be leading their entire families, and wonder why they're not interested in sex with their husbands. The husbands are just taking orders from their wives...that's just not sexy. No one should be ''taking orders'' from the other, but men shouldn't be ashamed to be masculine, and women shouldn't be ashamed to be feminine. I'm independent, have a good job, have my own opinions, etc...but, I don't want to lead my fiance. Everyone's different, so you have to find what works best in your relationship.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

wild jade said:


> "Ballbuster" as I understand the term, means any woman who disagrees with a man who thinks women are by nature decorations, servants, or otherwise inferiors.
> 
> Notice, for example, that it is never just a "*****". Lots of women are indeed *****es, but it's only smart successful ones that have good ideas that are ever called ballbusters.
> 
> Not sure why you think women both lack empathy AND somehow are more emotional than men, and so yep, will have to agree it sounds like rubbish to me.


Let's be clear I never used the words natures decorations,servants or inferiors and I never called anyone a *****.(By the way you may want to edit that,new moderator rules forbid incorrect spelling to use what would be called a swear word).I said "some" women at the top of the ladder can lack the empathy of their male counterparts.I also said that women by their nature can be more emotionally affected by things.
I know and have worked with women who would make Einstein seem like a dullard.They aren't Alpha females though,they are smart,wealthy,respected individuals and the fact they are women has no bearing in my eyes on their ability to do the job they are doing.If you want to tell me I'm talking crap then carry on but do not try putting words in my mouth that I never used.You seem very quick to take offence at imagined slights which is definitely Alpha female behaviour.


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> The problem I have with describing a woman who is independent, smart, responsible, etc as ''alpha'' is that is typically a male term, so we just can't be all those things without being compared to men? This is the problem I have with feminism, it causes women to think that we need to compete with men.


Alpha is not gender specific in ethology, doesn't really have anything to do with feminism.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> You seem very quick to take offence at imagined slights which is definitely Alpha female behaviour.


Why is this alpha female behavior?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Tiggy! said:


> Alpha is not gender specific in ethology, doesn't really have anything to do with feminism.


''Alpha male'' is defined as the dominant male. So, an alpha female would likely dominate over a guy, in a relationship...if we're comparing the two.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> Why is this alpha female behavior?


The Alpha in either male or female form has to be top dog,the leader of the pack.Anything that he or she perceives as an insult,however slight is unacceptable.Think about certain politicians reactions to seemingly innocuous questions by journalists.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> In reading some threads on here, *some wives seem to be leading their entire families*, and wonder why they're not interested in sex with their husbands.


I think women do this when they feel they cannot rely on their husbands. And if they feel that way, they likely have reasons for it.

I push men here to become more secure in themselves and earn the trust of their wives because I think that will make the lives of everyone in their family easier, most especially the wives. Way too many women in the world are carrying a very heavy load, all by themselves, and not necessarily out of choice.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> ''Alpha male'' is defined as the dominant male. So, an alpha female would likely dominate over a guy, in a relationship...if we're comparing the two.


The original term Alpha male comes from Wolf packs.To study a pack of wolves living together in the wilderness is very interesting.When food is hunted and brought back to the den the Alpha male gets first dibs,then the Alpha female.It doesn't matter which wolf brought the food back,they are the rules.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

jld said:


> I think women do this when they feel they cannot rely on their husbands. And if they feel that way, they likely have reasons for it.
> 
> I push men here to become more secure in themselves and earn the trust of their wives because I think that will make the lives of everyone in their family easier, most especially the wives. Way too many women in the world are carrying a very heavy load, all by themselves, and not necessarily out of choice.


That seems like good advice. I think that there are many men and women suffering in their marriages, at least from what I read on this forum. I think that men desire to lead. My dad is a strong man, and always led our family. But, my mom had to learn to stand up for herself, too, because my dad could act dominating, sometimes. I don't think that masculine leadership means dominating a woman, it means leading her and the family. I think that's really lacking in many families, for whatever the reasons.


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> ''Alpha male'' is defined as the dominant male. So, an alpha female would likely dominate over a guy, in a relationship...if we're comparing the two.


A Alpha is a dominant, I still don't see what this has to do with feminism.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> The original term Alpha male comes from Wolf packs.To study a pack of wolves living together in the wilderness is very interesting.When food is hunted and brought back to the den the Alpha male gets first dibs,then the Alpha female.It doesn't matter which wolf brought the food back,they are the rules.


We complicate things as humans. lol It seems like the animal kingdom just does what is instinctive?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Tiggy! said:


> A Alpha is a dominant, I still don't see what this has to do with feminism.


Never mind.


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Well, I try to be very careful posting in the Ladies Lounge since I am only allowed to post no more then 3 topics over a 2 year span (gotta make sure I have content worth posting about!!!). Just came across this article (by a female author) which basically states that the Alpha female is bar none the best girlfriend you could even have ...
> 
> So ... thoughts?


Just sounds like the author posted a bunch of traits she likes (and possibly thinks has) and decided to portray those traits as "Alpha".


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Tiggy! said:


> Just sounds like the author posted a bunch of traits she likes (and possibly thinks has) and decided to portray those traits as "Alpha".


Ellis is a guy


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Ellis is a guy


I was referring to the author of the article, not the OP.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Tiggy! said:


> I was referring to the author of the article, not the OP.


My bad🙁🙁🙁


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Let's be clear I never used the words natures decorations,servants or inferiors and I never called anyone a *****.(By the way you may want to edit that,new moderator rules forbid incorrect spelling to use what would be called a swear word).I said "some" women at the top of the ladder can lack the empathy of their male counterparts.I also said that women by their nature can be more emotionally affected by things.
> I know and have worked with women who would make Einstein seem like a dullard.They aren't Alpha females though,they are smart,wealthy,respected individuals and the fact they are women has no bearing in my eyes on their ability to do the job they are doing.If you want to tell me I'm talking crap then carry on but do not try putting words in my mouth that I never used.You seem very quick to take offence at imagined slights which is definitely Alpha female behaviour.


LOL. I'm not offended in the slightest, nor did I say you said those things.

I spend my life around alphas, both male and female, and know them very well. All I was saying that you pretty much only hear the word ballbuster used in very particular types of circumstances -- and it usually says more about the person slinging the insult than it does about the person who is being insulted. 

Of course, being defensive and quick to take offence is alpha male behaviour too. :wink2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Tiggy! said:


> Just sounds like the author posted a bunch of traits she likes (and possibly thinks has) and decided to portray those traits as "Alpha".


I was actually thinking that she probably got burned by a guy, so she posted all these "awesome' traits about herself to show how she would be the best girlfriend a guy could ever have ... Nothing wrong with listing traits per se, but claiming that if you don't have all of these traits you can't be the best girlfriend is a bit absurd lol.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Wolf packs or apes. But neither are human, and human interactions don't work the same way. You can try to map human actions onto animal behavior, but it feels like a stretch. 

In a social group of humans you will often see multiple different types of power distributed among different people. Also the strongest / bravest / most-aggressive is not particularly correlated with social / political power among humans. 




Andy1001 said:


> The original term Alpha male comes from Wolf packs.To study a pack of wolves living together in the wilderness is very interesting.When food is hunted and brought back to the den the Alpha male gets first dibs,then the Alpha female.It doesn't matter which wolf brought the food back,they are the rules.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Wolf packs or apes. But neither are human, and human interactions don't work the same way. You can try to map human actions onto animal behavior, but it feels like a stretch.
> 
> In a social group of humans you will often see multiple different types of power distributed among different people. Also the strongest / bravest / most-aggressive is not particularly correlated with social / political power among humans.


I was really only pointing out the origin of the term Alpha male.


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