# Eye Opener - Husband More Sensitive Than I Thought



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

My father-in-law was talking about when my husband and I met back in the early 80's this weekend. He mentioned that his son (my husband) had called him and told him that he met this girl (me) and that they had been out on a few dates and that he really liked her and she hadn't found anything wrong with him yet.

My husband then looked at me and said "well, she's made up for that now." 

WOW - could it be that what I consider expressing how I feel when I'm upset at something he does/doesn't do sounds like "criticism" and that "something is wrong with him," even though that's not what I meant?

Could he be more sensitive than he is showing me or others? Could my words cut deep even though he acts like they don't bother him? Could my words over the years have emasculated him and he no longer feels like a man and loved and cherished like he did in the beginning?

How do I approach him and express how I feel without him feeling like he is being criticized, that he's no good, etc.

He also mentioned this weekend that everyone liked him but me. What? I've never said that I didn't like him. It's obvious that I am doing something wrong in the way I talk or act towards him if he feels this way.

This was a real eye opener for me and I need to address it now - I love this man as much today as when I married him 25 years ago. HE IS very important to me and apparently I have sucked at it expressing it in a way that matters to him.

Help!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>Could my words over the years have emasculated him and he no longer feels like a man and loved and cherished like he did in the beginning?<<

In a word, yes.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Conrad said:


> >>Could my words over the years have emasculated him and he no longer feels like a man and loved and cherished like he did in the beginning?<<
> 
> In a word, yes.


Okay...any suggestions on how to fix this?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Okay...any suggestions on how to fix this?


Do you listen to him empathically? Do you watch his body language for how he feels as you're speaking with him?

Or do you press to win the discussion?

And, do you feel it's your job to point out the flaws in his thinking and ideas?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I try - but sometimes it's hard to read him (body language).

I have a habit of pressing to win the discussion - I recognize that and am working on it.

Yes.

Guess I need to do more of #1 and less of #2 and 3. I think he has resentment built up and this I don't know how to get rid of - it's hard to get those walls down once they've been put up.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I try - but sometimes it's hard to read him (body language).
> 
> I have a habit of pressing to win the discussion - I recognize that and am working on it.
> 
> ...


When someone really listens to us, the walls can come down rather quickly.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Okay...any suggestions on how to fix this?


Ask him and just listen for a while. Don't defend yourself. When you respond try to respond logically not emotionally. Have a discussion as if you were problem solving. BTW, i don't think his comments have to mean you emasculated him over the years. (The first one anyway). Just sounds like a candid funny remark meant to grab a laugh. The second one is probably more concerning but It may have been something said at the dinner. May have been your response to his first comment.


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## Orion (Jul 17, 2010)

Kobo said:


> BTW, i don't think his comments have to mean you emasculated him over the years. (The first one anyway). Just sounds like a candid funny remark meant to grab a laugh. The second one is probably more concerning but It may have been something said at the dinner. May have been your response to his first comment.


I agree with this. The first comment sounded like a joke but the second seems like it's a theme. I also understand your being a little confused since he never gave you an indication that things bothered him. I think that your answers to Conrad's questions point out what your issues may be. Open conversation (with you doing most of the listening) is key. Also, you continuing to not do the things in the future will help too. 

Understand that for some men, NOTHING makes us feel like more of a man than the repsect/admiration of our spouse/mate. Constantly getting the opposite of these things from our wives can lead to a lot of resentment. You have been working on yourself and that is a good thing. Good luck.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

*actions speak loudly, words hurt*

Married,

I don't have a solution for you but will tell you my not yet ex w but will be in 2011 can tell a similar story. For the first 20 years of our life together she was loving, affectionate, and enjoyed the marriage bed. Over the last years, she has withdrawn from me, focused on work - both at work and at home, got into a ongoing power struggle she can't win with her boss, would ignore me on the days she was physically home, and making love disappeared from our life. Her sleep schedule was crazy, she didn't come home for dinner most nights, on those nights she came home she was often late, I was the cook and hungry, she was aware of both these items. On the two nights a week we agreed we'd both be in bed - not for sex - just together she would usually arrive 30 to 90 minutes late, well after I fell asleep.

A lot of actions proclaiming rejection, despite words.

Take a look at what you do, rather than what you say.

She still claims she loves me as much as ever, but these are words, it is the actions that matter even more, those actions have been sadly missing and a large part of why I moved from CT to SF in November and don't plan to return. It isn't just the city of SF, it is my life is so much better w/o daily signs of rejection from the woman I married and loved dearly for over 20 years.

She has finally started therapy, I've told her she needs to do this for herself, not for us, I don't want her anymore, I can't trust her words, years of actions of rejection she refused to acknowledge until I moved out have killed the love I had for her.

Perhaps I have some advice - LISTEN! and ACT. When your H says you criticize him, he means it, he's not just moving his lips. If you mean what you say about loving him and caring for him, I suggest getting on your hands and knees, apologizing, apologizing, and apologizing, and ask him what changes you need to make. Even this might not work, I know my w could show up at the door to my apartment today, perform acts of contrition, and I would say - bye, have a good life. 

I've met several women here in SF, two clearly think well of me and we have a connection, one woman and I have had four dates, and we are really enjoying each other's company greatly. I told my new friend she is filling a place that has been empty for a long time.




MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Could my words over the years ... and he no longer feels ... loved and cherished like he did in the beginning?
> 
> How do I approach him and express how I feel without him feeling like he is being criticized, that he's no good, etc.
> 
> ...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

*Re: actions speak loudly, words hurt*



ThinkTooMuch said:


> Married,
> 
> I don't have a solution for you but will tell you my not yet ex w but will be in 2011 can tell a similar story. For the first 20 years of our life together she was loving, affectionate, and enjoyed the marriage bed. Over the last years, she has withdrawn from me, focused on work - both at work and at home, got into a ongoing power struggle she can't win with her boss, would ignore me on the days she was physically home, and making love disappeared from our life. Her sleep schedule was crazy, she didn't come home for dinner most nights, on those nights she came home she was often late, I was the cook and hungry, she was aware of both these items. On the two nights a week we agreed we'd both be in bed - not for sex - just together she would usually arrive 30 to 90 minutes late, well after I fell asleep.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your story, I followed your post on another thread.

I had already a few months ago asked him what changes he felt I needed to make and he stated so.

We've both come a long way with everything we've had to face. I have changed how I speak to him, listen to him, the way I argue, I am in counseling, he is in counseling and we're in counseling together. But I was still surprised to hear him say that he doesn't think I like him - I don't know where this is coming from. I believe my actions not only show I like him but that I love him, but apparently he's not feeling that. And of course he won't talk to me about it (in-depth), so its up to me to figure out what he means.

But I hear you loud and clear - listen, listen, listen - actions speak louder than words. It hurt me that he thinks I don't like him.

And while I would like to believe the first comment was a joke, it wasn't said in a joking matter and he looked serious - I think he meant it exactly as it was said. 

Thanks for the perspective from a man who has been there. This is more helpful than you know.

And it's great that you are doing so well in SF!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Orion said:


> I agree with this. The first comment sounded like a joke but the second seems like it's a theme. I also understand your being a little confused since he never gave you an indication that things bothered him. I think that your answers to Conrad's questions point out what your issues may be. Open conversation (with you doing most of the listening) is key. Also, you continuing to not do the things in the future will help too.
> 
> Understand that for some men, NOTHING makes us feel like more of a man than the repsect/admiration of our spouse/mate. Constantly getting the opposite of these things from our wives can lead to a lot of resentment. You have been working on yourself and that is a good thing. Good luck.


And it appears he does have resentment. He loves me, tells me so and doesn't want to be without me (has said that to me also), but also makes cracks like "its too late" all the time and it infuriates me and I've told him so.

Its never too late until you're dead and gone and I wished he would quit saying it. He hasn't been perfect either and I never say its too late to him. 

And what I mean by the crack "its too late." An example: I'm a night owl, he's an early-morning person - always have been. But since he had his brain injury I have retrained myself (and it was hard), to go to bed early and get up early so that I can make sure he eats, takes his meds, etc. Well he has made the crack that its "too late" that I'm now going to bed with him all the time and getting up with him. Huh? It wasn't too late to me that he wouldn't stay up with me and wouldn't sleep in and cuddle in the morning. But he's made an effort to do that lately also. 

I'm willing to compromise and have done a lot of it - but why am I always the bad guy? Why is it that he can't compromise, that it always has to be me? I guess I shouldn't be *****ing about that if I'm trying to solve "you don't like me, huh?" 

Thanks!


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

*Re: actions speak loudly, words hurt*

MWIL,

I wish you success in convincing your H that you still like and love him, his damaged brain must make this even harder, glad my words were useful. Thanks for your good wishes.

I'm sure there are quite a few folks reading this thread who want to know what approach, if any, works. I can't speak for any men other than myself, but think many of us want our wife's love and affection, will put up with a great deal before deciding to move on. Despite our so called tough exteriors, we are very sensitive to what we interpret as rejection.

My wise psychologist told me more than once the meaning of words and actions is not what is intended by the speaker/actor but what is heard and felt.

During our happy years my stbx and I agreed we didn't want to win battles, we wanted to win the marital war by loving each other, staying at peace and not having battles. What we didn't take into account was the long term corrosive effects of failing to listen enough, of putting external priorities ahead of the marriage. Recently, after we separated physically, she told me she made a terrible mistake not accepting my offer to move west with me, by deciding she wanted to continue at her job and care for her parents. This was during a phone call last week.

I responded - I forget my exact words - you decided what you decided, there are no makeovers at this point, have your mom move in with you and keep going to work. There are no do overs in horse shoes or when dropping atomic weapons, note even the nicest guy will stop granting oopsies sooner or later.

One of the very pleasant aspects of my new friend, is her words of appreciation added to the not so hidden message of her face, and body saying "I really, really, really like you". We've said good byes more often than we've parted, a single hug, a single kiss, not enough to express our feelings.



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Thank you for sharing your story, I followed your post on another thread.
> 
> I had already a few months ago asked him what changes he felt I needed to make and he stated so.
> 
> ...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

*Re: actions speak loudly, words hurt*



ThinkTooMuch said:


> MWIL,
> 
> I wish you success in convincing your H that you still like and love him, his damaged brain must make this even harder, glad my words were useful. Thanks for your good wishes.
> 
> ...


Thanks again - I hear you LOUD and CLEAR. Now, to just put it into practice.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I wonder if there’s a 6th sense about all this? In the latter years of our marriage my wife would tell me she loved me …. but I didn’t actually feel loved plus I felt very insecure with our relationship. It was her words not agreeing with her actions or body language.

Since we’ve been separated I’ve discovered she didn’t actually want to be with me during those latter years even though she was telling me she did. In a way she was fraudulent about our relationship, it’s kind of left me feeling used and abused. Now she wants back in but I don’t want her anymore.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I wonder if there’s a 6th sense about all this? In the latter years of our marriage my wife would tell me she loved me …. but I didn’t actually feel loved plus I felt very insecure with our relationship. It was her words not agreeing with her actions or body language.
> 
> Since we’ve been separated I’ve discovered she didn’t actually want to be with me during those latter years even though she was telling me she did. In a way she was fraudulent about our relationship, it’s kind of left me feeling used and abused. Now she wants back in but I don’t want her anymore.


But I sincerely do love my husband. I do want to be with him, maybe his illness has him thinking that I'm just staying out of pity (he has mentioned this a time or two but I didn't take it seriously).

I would NEVER stay with someone out of pity.

I really do love this man, but apparently he's not feeling it, thinks I don't "like him", etc. I have to figure out why and he's not the type to open up and tell me why, so I'm trying to figure it out myself...I'm apparently doing something that is causing him to feel this way and it breaks my heart that he doesn't feel I like him.

I'm sorry that your wife led you on, it seems. But I swear I'm not leading him on. Why would I? I'm not the one whose sick, I make the majority of our income, I look younger for my age than he does (and I'm older). What would be my reason - I can make it on my own just fine - but I don't want too - I want to be with him because I love him, not because I feel sorry for him, not because I pity him, not because he makes oodles of money and I'm in it for the dough, not because I don't think I can find someone else, though I may be staying with him for his big *****. :smthumbup: That is, when I get to see it...:rofl:

I just have to figure out what signals I'm giving by my actions and behavior that are not matching my words.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

It seems you've gotten a ton of advice and have a pretty good handle on things, but I just want to add one thing: consider your tone when you tell him things that could be taken as criticism. 

My boyfriend has a tendency to say something to me, and while in his head, it's perfectly innocent and not meant critically and shouldn't hurt my feelings, his tone very loudly says otherwise. Unfortunately, given that this is the written (ok, typed) word, I can't really give an example of this, but you strike me as a sharp enough lady to get what I'm saying. The same phrase can sound totally different depending on the tone you use, and sometimes (this is especially true for my boyfriend), people don't realize the tone they're using and so they don't realize that though they think they're not saying something hurtful, they really are because of their tone.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> maybe his illness has him thinking that I'm just staying out of pity (he has mentioned this a time or two but I didn't take it seriously).
> 
> I would NEVER stay with someone out of pity.


Ahhh but many people would !! They would feel it is their obligation, their vows. Yeah, I would take those words of his seriously. Maybe he is giving you some really really really hard "Tests" to prove your love & devotion. As I am sure you are being worn down with his testing -if so - Just to see what all you will put up with, because from all you have shared about him, he is not as self-less as you- never was, and if reversed, he would not feel "as you do" so he does NOT understand it , can not comprehend it. Plus his brain injury on top of that isn't helping matters. 

He is such a blessed man.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> But I sincerely do love my husband. I do want to be with him, maybe his illness has him thinking that I'm just staying out of pity (he has mentioned this a time or two but I didn't take it seriously).
> 
> I would NEVER stay with someone out of pity.
> 
> ...



It may just be that what’s happened to him has embittered him and he feels like he’s a victim. So maybe he’s an “embittered victim”. If he is, it is a state of mind and emotion and an exceptionally strong one at that.

I’m sorry to say that it’s my experience that people in that state of mind actually seem to enjoy it. It seems to get them something out of “life” that they can’t get any other way.

If he is a “victim” then you sure are the “rescuer”. And the more you try and rescue the more of the victim role he’ll play. It’s called the “drama triangle”. In my experience the only way out of the triangle is via impatience and intolerance. Ever more patience and tolerance just feeds and perpetuates the drama.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

AFEH said:


> If he is a “victim” then you sure are the “rescuer”. And the more you try and rescue the more of the victim role he’ll play. It’s called the “drama triangle”. In my experience the only way out of the triangle is via impatience and intolerance. Ever more patience and tolerance just feeds and perpetuates the drama.


 AFEH is so brilliant . I never heard of this before, so I looked it up, I bet he is on to something here. 
Here is a nice overview: http://www.therapyideas.net/triangles.htm Many such articles can be found on a google search. 


Does any of this hit home?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

The drama triangle in my marriage repeated itself every now and then. I think of them as “dysfunctional episodes”. I stepped into the triangle as the rescuer, trying to teach my stbx “new ways” of handling things and being ever more understanding, patient and tolerant. I always “shouldered” the blame. It feels like I forever “researched” much as MWIL is right now. It feels like I did it for decades. My stbx had many good qualities about her. Wrong move on my behalf.

I read once that the way out of the triangle is to become the “persecutor”. But that didn’t sit on my shoulders very well. I got out by constructing my boundaries, essentially an intolerance of my stbx’s persecution of me.

As soon as I told my stbx of the behaviour I’d no longer tolerate from her, well she just trampled right through them and persecuted me even more. The things she persecuted me for had no basis in realty, it was “victim speak”. She learned it from her mother as a child and it was very deeply rooted in her psyche.


MWIL I’ve added this to your thread as you may see some parallels in your situation.

If you feel your husband is abusing the person you are deep inside of you then he probably is. If that is so, the reason it continues is because of your lack of personal boundaries. You are probably being way too tolerant. Not just for your own good but at the end of the day for the good of your husband as well. While he has you to “kick around” there isn’t any way in the world he’s going to get introspective and look at his own role in the situation.

It took 12 months separated from me for my stbx to do that. She’s getting there. I reckon she’s got at least another two years to go, at age 59 next year or maybe she’ll never ever get there.

Bob


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> AFEH is so brilliant . I never heard of this before, so I looked it up, I bet he is on to something here.
> Here is a nice overview: Therapy Ideas - Relationship Triangles and Manipulation Many such articles can be found on a google search.
> 
> 
> Does any of this hit home?


Like a bullseye.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> AFEH is so brilliant . I never heard of this before, so I looked it up, I bet he is on to something here.
> Here is a nice overview: Therapy Ideas - Relationship Triangles and Manipulation Many such articles can be found on a google search.
> 
> 
> Does any of this hit home?


Yep - I am the "rescuer" and he is the "persecuter."

I also looked at the black & white and a few other things.

It recommends as the "rescuer" you have to become indifferent. I've read that before and tried it but I suck at it. I'm not the type of person that can just pretend I don't care and just walk away from something - I've tried and failed miserably.

I'll do some more reading and see what I can come up with. Now, of course, as the "rescuer" this is what we do best but it never seems to solve anything...I'm going to take that personality test at ******* - but I already know how its going to turn out.

I took another one on another site and it came up with "histronic" personality type and it fit me to a "T".

We'll see....


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> The drama triangle in my marriage repeated itself every now and then. I think of them as “dysfunctional episodes”. I stepped into the triangle as the rescuer, trying to teach my stbx “new ways” of handling things and being ever more understanding, patient and tolerant. I always “shouldered” the blame. It feels like I forever “researched” much as MWIL is right now. It feels like I did it for decades. My stbx had many good qualities about her. Wrong move on my behalf.
> 
> I read once that the way out of the triangle is to become the “persecutor”. But that didn’t sit on my shoulders very well. I got out by constructing my boundaries, essentially an intolerance of my stbx’s persecution of me.
> 
> ...


I am WAY too tolerant and I know it. I have very few, if any personal boundaries - never have. Maybe this is why I get crapped on regularly.

Based on my personality type, I want to be liked and loved at all costs. Makes it difficult to have any boundaries when you need to be liked and loved at all costs, you become very tolerant and you are always adjusting your boundaries, if you have any to begin with.

Boy do I have a lot to figure out. I'm too old for this crap!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MWIL,

It's never too late.

But, the regrets over lost time sure do pile up, don't they?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Conrad said:


> MWIL,
> 
> It's never too late.
> 
> But, the regrets over lost time sure do pile up, don't they?


Yes and so does the resentment. I'm trying very hard to put past resentments aside, just be loving, quit wondering what's in it for me, etc.

But boy, its hard!


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

One thing...you haven't given up. Here you are, still searching and REsearching. Your husband is a lucky man!

I thought about his "you don't like me" remark. I personally hate armchair analyzing things to death...and I'm sure this has occurred to you...but maybe HE doesn't like himself? Maybe it has nothing to do with you at all (in terms of what you're doing). I can imagine how he feels (and have felt the same way myself sometimes) and it's hard when you wake up one day and you're not the person you used to be.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Yes and so does the resentment. I'm trying very hard to put past resentments aside, just be loving, quit wondering what's in it for me, etc.
> 
> But boy, its hard!



I look at it this way. If I can’t take care of the most fundamental needs in my life, just who can I take care of?

You do need to take care of yourself. You really do. That’s what “Rescuers” neglect. They neglect themselves, who they are at their core being.

But you have even more going on in your life in that as I understand you are a carer because of your husband’s disability? That at least doubles the need to care for yourself.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I am WAY too tolerant and I know it. I have very few, if any personal boundaries - never have. Maybe this is why I get crapped on regularly.
> 
> Based on my personality type, I want to be liked and loved at all costs. Makes it difficult to have any boundaries when you need to be liked and loved at all costs, you become very tolerant and you are always adjusting your boundaries, if you have any to begin with.
> 
> Boy do I have a lot to figure out. I'm too old for this crap!



Does being ever more patient, tolerant and “understanding” actually bring us more love?

It may do if we’re with the “right person”. In effect a person who will not use and abuse our patience and tolerance and our need to be loved. That is a person who will not use and abuse the person we are. “Victims” do that stuff.

But without well defined boundaries surely a lot of what we’ll get is disrespect. And can a person truly love another while at the same time disrespect them? Surely those two things, love and respect go hand in hand with one another.

Well I'm 61 and I've learnt a lot in this past year and I feel a better person for it.

Bob


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