# Cheaters are going to cheat..... unless



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

you do what it takes to stop them. You have to be willing to end a marriage to save it. Never beg a WS...

For Part 2, I decided to go a different route and write about some main points of certain A’s and my mind set during them. Adding in some things a BS should look for and what I think has to be done to end them. I think I will add a Part 3. To detail where I am now and how I got there. I was to just add this to my initial thread titled “Can a Serial Cheater/ Narcissist Change his Stripes” but since the theme is different I thought it deserved its own thread.

Part 2.

I can count on one hand how many ONS I have had since marriage, I never go looking for them. I also am not into porn, yeah I check it out but rarely. However, I am addicted to the whole A process. I like the chase, usually if she is to forward or to easy I won’t be interested or I will lose interest quickly. 

I don’t just pick someone out of the blue, I have to be attracted to her, I have to physically see her ( I never have had an online thing); she has to be involved with someone; with the exception of one that I mentioned earlier, I have never lied to any of them about my marriage. They know I am married, they know my family comes before them. I never make any promises to them. 

Usually somewhere during the process I lose interest, out of last 10 years, two has gone to a full blown A’s. Two other were PA’s that didn’t involve much of a chase, but I was still interested enough to have it.
With the exception of my last EA (a young intern) all of them were married or in a committed relationship.

The two PA’s didn’t have any much emotion behind it cause I didn’t want them too, sometimes it really is just sex. But, they can turn emotional pretty easily if they both want it too. The first one happened when I was transferred and my family didn’t move yet… she worked at the front desk and was very cute. It stopped after I left my extended stay and my wife and kids moved up. The other one was a coworker; I bring her up for that fact alone.


Co-Workers – I probably could have had numerous EA’s or PA’s with fellow employees if I wanted to. It is the easiest ways to have one and it maybe be one of the hardest one’s for a BS to find out about. I say this cause a lot of the cheating can be done from work on work phones, emails, and IM (instant messenger). Plus, you see the AP every day, and depending on the job obviously, it is easy to get away (lunch break, business trips, after work gatherings). Also, unless they get caught in the act, your employer isn’t gonna stop it; nobody will come forward even if the suspect it, and HR could careless unless they are made aware, and in most cases even if they are aware, nothing is going to happen unless the act is egregious. If your spouse had an AP and he/she still works with them you’re in trouble. I have heard about work related affairs lasting years even decades. They call them Work Wife’s and Husband’s for a reason. 

IM at work is used for socializing most of the time. I am still waiting for some BS to sue some company who allows IM under such grounds. So much flirting and I have to believe a bunch of initial contact between future AP start with IM. Ask your spouse if IM is used at their work. Don’t allow your spouse to go to work related gatherings or after work get together without you. Make your presents known. Let their co-workers see you because co-workers will notice if he/she is always out alone. You showing up, even if you don’t want to can stop anything from starting. If your SO doesn’t want you to go, they shouldn’t go either. Communication with your spouse is a must. Listen to your spouse, who he/she is talking about. It is one of the stupidest things a WS does, but we all seem to do it, we just can’t stop talking about the AP or someone we are interested in. I have even caught myself doing this and made a point not to. If your spouse is having an A with a co-worker, they have to quit the job and expose the affair to HR and co-workers. Tough **** if it is going to hurt financially so does divorce. 
I was always against having any type of A’s with a co-worker. I broke my rule this one time. In my case the AP was a co-worker who was engaged. It was very easy to have without getting caught cause it was a PA without any real emotion and contact was kept at work during lunch… daily. They are very hard to end cause it is so easy to have. Mine ended when they moved after getting married. I can still talk to her to this day if I wanted to. 


As I mentioned earlier, I had two pretty serious A’s during this time. The first was the shorter and the less serious of the two. It lasted about 8 months and she was the wife of an acquaintance, not a friend yet, but he started to become one and that is why I ended it. I been with all types of females, but I am very drawn/ attracted to girls with tattoos. She is a very nice sleeve; we had a bunch in common and the same interests. They been married for 5 years, but together for 10, she never cheated before (I believe her because she was very nervous in the beginning and not experienced at these type of things.) They were having problems, but seemed very much into each other, they wanted kids but had problems conceiving and he was the bread winner and wasn’t happy that she hardly worked. Here are the steps that led us to cheat…..
I met her when a mutual friend of her husband and I was leaving her job and moving out of state. I was instantly attracted to the AP, but her H was there and I made some small talk but kept it light. As the night went we would find ways to talk to each other in group settings but by the end of the night, I felt a mutual attraction between us. I didn’t see her again for a few months, didn’t seek her, hoped to run into her again and did when the friend that left came to visit and she had a get together. I only stopped by but the AP made it obvious that she didn’t want me to leave so soon, I had to but we exchanged #’s secretly before I left. 
The Beginning of an A: Like any relationship, this is the feeling out process, and when there is still guilt for what you are doing. You will rationalize it as just a friendship and it is in the most part, but the intentions aren’t and this is why you have to know what your spouse is doing, if you feel something is wrong ACT. The more time you wait the closer the two gets. I hate when I see the BS tell their tale and mention feeling early on something isn’t right but afraid to act on it or being manipulated not to. In our A, I even mentioned to her if her H knows she gave me her #. Knowing full well she didn’t, but was letting her know I didn’t care without outright saying it. I like to take my time, pushing and pulling, stringing her along, making her want to want me more and more each time. She would ask to see each other and I wouldn’t initially, but by the time we met I had her. I had to teach her how to hide it, and she got good at it. 

It got pretty serious with the “I love you” and all that. It was not real, but it does feel like it at the time and if we got caught, her H would have had a hell of a time getting her out of the fog. I suspect she would of broken NC. Since I never have been caught I can’t say for certain what I would do if a WS tried contact me after D day. I know that I would be ****ting my pants hoping to gawd that her H won’t contact my W. For that fact alone, I wouldn’t contact her, but as time went by and if she contacted me, I would think it easily could start up again. This is why have to EXPOSE… just stop being scared and do it right when you find out. 

An A never seems to get old, it is always exciting and as you keep getting away with it, it becomes as important as anything, if not more. You stop feeling guilty and the BS has officially lost their spouse. I actually tried ending this A couple times and each time failed. It is very easy to be pulled back in, but I did end it, she didn’t handle it well…. but did move on. But since we never got caught, I am positive that if I was to contact her at anytime, she would be mine again…. And this is the reason, I do not trust allowing your WS to get out of the fog on their own. I have seen BS allow this, and it makes me cringe each time cause even if you get your W back, it is very easy to lose him/her again. They did it once, they will do it again… cause you allowed it once, you will allow it again. REAL CONSEQUENCES causes the WS to look back at the A and the AP in disgust… this is what you want. 

Guess there is going to be 4 parts of my story, cause the last A I had was the most intense and I really got lost into it. It drained me, for the first time I put her, the AP before my family. I didn’t like that at all. It is the A that finally woke me up enough to finally seek help and really try to change my behavior.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Does this whole post mean you'll go on having as many affairs as you can because you're just an Affair kind of guy?


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*I think it means the OP has a problem with limitations.*


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

^ Pretty much. 

Cheaters aren't some class of different human.

Its just people with low morals and bad boundaries like OP.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I am the worst kind of cheater. If there is a hell I am certainly going there.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I find it somewhat ironic that your name is The Bishop, yet you cheat constantly...

I feel like a Bishop in real life would be above that. 

Out of curiosity, are you religious?


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Atheist. And I picked Bishop cause they were preaching god but allowing priests to abuse children. By NO means do I condone abusing children, it is the worst behavior I could think of. I am not a monster like priests and enabling Bishops, but I wear two faces.... one a loving husband and father and one as a serial selfish cheater. I am as phony as some of them just not as sick.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I was raised Catholic.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

I wonder, sir, what if you were to find out that your wife was also having numerous affairs, what then?


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> I wonder, sir, what if you were to find out that your wife was also having numerous affairs, what then?


You know what.... I feel so bad betraying someone so good, it probably would make me feel somewhat better. I have certainly put her on a pedestal and think she is all that is right with the world. To find out she isn't and just like me would at least allow me to confess fully without the very real possibility of losing her.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

The bishop said:


> You know what.... I feel so bad betraying someone so good, it probably would make me feel somewhat better. I have certainly put her on a pedestal and think she is all that is right with the world. To find out she isn't and just like me would at least allow me to confess fully without the very real possibility of losing her.


I think you suffer from the madonna/w*ore complex


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Wow, you are like my dad. 

Moralless, heartless, and no care for the woman who pledged her life to you. 


So you're like Tony Soprano?
One family face at home. 
Another face to show the world?


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

How many affairs have you had so far in total? [Assuming you're not a troll]
Can I ask how old you are?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Lovely girl, bishop is not a troll. And in fact I am surprised you say that. It seems obvious to me that this story is not troll like at all. It has no patterns of one. 

He has given great advice to people going through the mill, from a cheater's perspective. From a man with narcissistic tendencies and selfish acts, this perspective imo is hugely useful. 

When you first come here as a fogged BS you think your situation is different, that your circumstances may somehow not mean the obvious, and that most of the advice givers on here are bitter, twisted, and clouded by their own situation and the betrayal they have experienced (and so dubious as advice givers)....which a lot are (bitter, twisted)..... but the advice is mostly very real, very important, and very apt. But I don't think it is necessarily given in a positive way. Quite the opposite in fact. 

I think it's great to have an opposite perspective and not just the sea of 'bitter folk' that can be so off putting to newcomers. And in fact, a different perspective for all actually, I find it useful, interesting, and I have been waiting for the bishop to finally tell his story.

And I think the bishop is a very welcome and valuable member of this advice giving forum. And I am glad you are here the bishop


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

In parts, large parts, you are my stbxw or, just as bad, you're one of her 'other' men

and if I'm honest, and not wanting to get banned, I have to control my anger as I write this.

When I consider the complete destruction to my children, myself, the families of all the other married men she 'sailed' into. The peripheral family of each and every one of them.......fk me 

Listen I know you have not ( well I hope) murdered or raped but the ripples of your despicable personality / actions have destroyed countless lives just like those two terrible crimes have ... 

but here's what gets me 

"Oh I've got this mental issue" or "Oh that medication made me....." (no doubt you'll be telling us about those)

Somehow that always gets you off the hook, somehow you people always end up getting some kind of fking sympathy because you're a "nice" guy you're "sociable" you're "charismatic" 

I know you've not committed any tabulated kind of crime here but I'd personally throw away the fking key

( and Remains, yes it is 'interesting' but I for one, and you should not either, ever forget just what type of person we are dealing with here )


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## lesley70 (Oct 8, 2012)

Bishop, can I ask a few questions from a BS point of view? I like your honest posts.

Are you still having affairs and ONS or have you broken this destructive regime?

I wonder, what do you imagine your lovely wife would do, say, feel should she discover your life of betrayal to her and your babies?

Did you ever 'love' any of these OW, or was it just sexual gratification?

Do you feel you truly love your wife?

How is sex with your wife?

Do you find your wife physically attractive?

How do you reconcile with yourself when you have come from another woman and now you're lying in the eyes of your beautiful, loving wife?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Headspin, I agree. It is easy to forget. 

But I do see things from both sides. I always try to. I realise that all people have their issues, and that the bigger the issues the bigger the unhappiness. I also believe that cheating is in just about every one of us to varying degrees. I think given certain circumstances in the right place and the right order and the right time, even the most steadfast can be capable.

Additionally, cheating has been going on since the beginning of time. It is as much a part of human behaviour as is food, shelter, sex, religion (maybe not done everyday but all knows people who have cheated - note I said people and not someone). This behaviour is so damaging, it is one of the deadly sins! But also it has been a behaviour since the beginning of time, just as murder has. 

We all have to deal with the unsavoury side of human nature in our lives, and we have all done bad things ourselves to varying degrees. No one is immune to doing bad things to others. Everyone is tainted by that brush. It is how we deal with our actions that is the true test of decency. And we all get sh*t on in some way at some point throughout our lives too.

Some people are more prone to double crossing, betraying, lying, cheating, robbing, selfish and cowardly behaviour than others. 

Some have things happen to them in more awful ways and with more disastrous consequences than others who receive that same treatment from another. All is swings and roundabouts at the end of the day. 

We live well, our reward is happiness with ourselves. We live selfishly, the reward is unhappiness with our self, and other people wishing ill of us too. I would rather be happy. We have enough people in life telling us how sh*t we are, we don't need to be telling ourself that too! 

What I find most admirable, respectful, noteworthy, more so than someone who has been 'good', and predisposed to 'good' behaviour all their lives, more than someone who's 'goodness' comes naturally, is someone who has been 'bad', recognises this, faces it, deals with it, and overcomes it, makes all efforts to overcome it. This is the mark of someone who deserves to be respected, just as those are who are naturally 'good', and admired for their courage. For someone with such a longstanding pattern of selfish behaviour, it is a difficult thing to change. 

For anyone at all and for whatever fault they may have, it is difficult to change. Add a large helping of selfishness, that change is all the more difficult, important, and to be fully recognised imo.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

"What I find most admirable, respectful, noteworthy, more so than someone who has been 'good', and predisposed to 'good' behaviour all their lives, more than someone who's 'goodness' comes naturally, is someone who has been 'bad', recognises this, faces it, deals with it, and overcomes it, makes all efforts to overcome it. This is the mark of someone who deserves to be respected, just as those are who are naturally 'good', and admired for their courage. For someone with such a longstanding pattern of selfish behaviour, it is a difficult thing to change"

I agree with this...providing they are true in their reconciliation with them self....that must come first, before even considering a true reconciliation with the BS.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Remains said:


> What I find most admirable, respectful, noteworthy, more so than someone who has been 'good', and predisposed to 'good' behaviour all their lives, more than someone who's 'goodness' comes naturally, is someone who has been 'bad', recognises this, faces it, deals with it, and overcomes it, makes all efforts to overcome it. This is the mark of someone who deserves to be respected......


:scratchhead:

mmm........ okay, lets ask all the people who's lives, the gfs, the husbands, the kids, grandparents, that have been completely obliterated by this man - over decades! Lets find out what their level of 'respect' is for him!!?

Sorry but he does'nt get off that lightly in my world. I'm still answering questions my little girl asks me about at bed time why her "mummy is no longer here", "why do you not look at mummy any more daddy" ?? etc etc "Why does'nt nanny like mummy anymore etc etc" 

My stbxw is similar to this man

I don't find anything "admirable respectful noteworthy" that puts somebody like this on a higher plaine than a good honest person who gives their all, their heart and soul to a man or woman over years of marriage

This is what gets me - somehow, somefkinghow, these people manage to invoke some sympathy from people and that's how they can go on and feel good about themselves imo 

I don't think anybody that has been through what this man has put people through will learn an awful lot from this 

I'll stop ......


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Remains said:


> Lovely girl, bishop is not a troll. And in fact I am surprised you say that. It seems obvious to me that this story is not troll like at all. It has no patterns of one.


I knew he was a cheater but I didn't know he still is until I read the thread yesterday. I thought he had left the cheating life behind. While reading his opening post, I liked it in the sense that he was giving a different/clear perspective of what goes on a cheater's mind. But I have to be honest. I was waiting for a "I've left this behind" at the end of his post.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Thank you for sharing Bishop. It is always nice to hear the means and methods of a wayward spouse since it is often very hidden from us betrayed spouses. Sorry folks here are bashing you instead of learning from your willingness to share.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Yea Bishop and the sad thing is you have just accepted your behavior and not changed at all. You say your spouse would have to be a cheater for your conscience to be better. 

I am sorry but when I hear this coming from you. Also Not every bishop out there is bad, it doesn't matter if you are a bishop or a Penn State Football coach child abuse is wrong. That doesn't mean there aren't any good bishops out there. I am not catholic but I am a Christian and I believe we are all sinners. Therefore anyone is capable of anything at anytime. I am not trying to start a religious debate but, merely pointing out that child abuse is wrong and it's everywhere and you can't blame the whole for the individual choices of deeply disturbed individuals.

The level of just acceptance of your own behavior is scary. The way you are talking reminds me of episodes of "INTERVENTION." 
Why are you on TAM? I mean if you are on here to balance the scale and sooth your conscience, that isn't going to work or solve anything. You are still ruining you marriage, betraying the woman you said you would be faithful too. I mean were you sexually abused, I am just stunned. Please tell me you are not continuing you behaviors. Please tell me you are not currently exhibiting predatory behavior that pretty much amounts to marriage busting? You know I am all for support and all that but I can't read that story which was in present tense and not call you out. How much of this does your wife know? Why come on here and try to help people when you are verging on hypocrisy. I hope you don't get too offended but that is what is happening. IF you feel like you are going to hell and you deserve it, and you can't stop then you have a sexual addiction. If you are in active Counceling and it isn't working. Then you NEED a structured rehab program. 
Your story paints a picture of long term addiction not just a guy with a problem. Porn, the chase, hunting specific women , and everything else is not something you need to just accept. You need to change yourself and at least come clean. I know you don't believe in God but I will pray for you. 
Understand I want what's best for you and you are ruining all that you have. Get help.

Please excuse this post if it is based on bad info. It takes awhile for me to post so if my basis for my statements are wrong excuse me. If they aren't wrong they will stand.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

The bishop said:


> you do what it takes to stop them. You have to be willing to end a marriage to save it. Never beg a WS...
> 
> For Part 2, I decided to go a different route and write about some main points of certain A’s and my mind set during them. Adding in some things a BS should look for and what I think has to be done to end them. I think I will add a Part 3. To detail where I am now and how I got there. I was to just add this to my initial thread titled “Can a Serial Cheater/ Narcissist Change his Stripes” but since the theme is different I thought it deserved its own thread.
> 
> ...


 Okay now to argue a few points Cheater are going to cheat unless........... They choose to stop cheating.
You can't put the responsibility of ending cheating on the Loyal Spouse that is Affair 101. I mean have read tons of stories where. the BS "does the 180","goes to MC", and tries hard but it is always on the Cheater to fix themselves. Once the cheater decides to stop then things can move forward. 

judging by your intro and the statements in your body it seems like you want to stop, you want to get caught, that is your fault not your wife's. Your wife is trusting you and you are walking all over it. I am glad for your honesty but I wouldn't be doing my part if I didn't try to reach out.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't really have any bad feelings for bishop. Most of my disgust is directed toward the women he cheated with (especially the engaged one). 

He didn't "technically" pledge fidelity to their spouses so the fault lies primarily on the APs. There will always be scumbags like bishop (sorry for being harsh mate, but you and I know it's true) and that's why it's very important you make sure you're marrying the right person and have proper boundaries in place.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I don't really have any bad feelings for bishop. Most of my disgust is directed toward the women he cheated with (especially the engaged one).
> 
> He didn't "technically" pledge fidelity to their spouses so the fault lies primarily on the APs.


Say what? He pledged fidelity to his spouse. Why does he get a pass? You can't have a betrayal without two willing parties.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Say what? He pledged fidelity to his spouse. Why does he get a pass? You can't have a betrayal without two willing parties.


Wow completely forgot he is married too :/


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I at work so I can't reply to all the questions just yet... I will in time. 

I am 38, wife is 37, I have two sons 12,9. We have been married 12 years, I have had numerous A's (different degrees) ; I have slept with 9 different women in those 12 years. 

I am trying to change my behavior, so I am trying to put the cheating life behind. I have been cheating way before marriage on every relationship I have ever had. I don't want my boys to grow up to be anything like me and know if I continue I will lose everything. I am here cause I hate cheaters, as I hate myself and since I know the cheating side, I share that perspective. 

I wasn't born like this, I pick up these behaviors that caused me to be very self centered and selfish, among other things. Even though I have been diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, I am not diseased, I don't blame being NPD, I take ownership of all the horrible behavior. In other words, I am NPD, NPD isn't me. 

Even though my threads are about me, they are not for me. I know how bad I am and the difficult road I have I front of me. I will never change completely, cause even if I change and stay faithful for the rest of my life, The dAmage is done. I have lived two lives for way to long, and unless I decide to come clean on my past to everyone, with the real possibility of losing everyone. I'll have to continue hiding that life. 

These threads are to show the ugly side of affairs. Of course not all cheaters are as bad as I was/am. But us cheaters are all very similar once in the fog (or high) of the affair and need to be dealt with accordingly. Some of us are helpless, but it isn't easy for a loved one to see that. In those cases, or others, I hope my stories help, and at the same time open some up (newbies) of what they are dealing with and what to look for.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I think the Bishop is not a "common" cheater. 

Yes, all are bad, yet there are varying degrees.

He is a serial cheater. 

I'm not sure what the point of these threads are. It kinda sounds like you're gloating, Bishop. You said you are "trying" to change. Well trying and doing aren't the same.

When you want to stop doing this, you will.

Until then, your wife can expect the same from you. Hopefully you've come clean and she's been tested for STDs. This behavior is pretty reprehensible.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

boogie110 said:


> Anyway, I know we are all hurt by the Bishops in our life, and then we all cry and our hearts are broken and then our children...and then I read The Mail in the UK - better news info than the US ..about a boy who was raped at 8 and then burned alive (survived it) by the 13 year old who attacked him 2 weeks earlier and the boy just recently died of cancer from the original burn, many years later (the 2 attacks happened like 15 years earlier) and *then I say to myself...Wow, and I was only cheated on?* *Sometimes we all need a little more perspective than what we are currently living through*.


I'm not sure how any of those things are related. To minimize being cheated on in a 'Coping with Infidelity" forum is insensitive.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> You are so amazing to take the time and write all this. THANK YOU!
> 
> I hope that after #4 - now you did write this so I am holding you to this - that you will continue to contribute in all sorts of ways in the future.
> 
> ...


Well fascinating

'what is it bishop that makes you Sooo attractive'
the answer is right in your head - with all due respect, you sound like you're 'hooked' already!
I'd take a cold shower if I was you

Sheesh


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I think the Bishop is not a "common" cheater.
> 
> Yes, all are bad, yet there are varying degrees.
> 
> ...


Well yeah 

'I banged this one and that one and that one and and this one and .... yeah it completely fked up all their lives from top to bottom countless people in turmoil because of my big fat ****.

That's me 

That's what I'm all about. Hip hip hooray - a real man 'I could still have her if I wanted now'

Shame none of the betrayed spouses never managed to get their hands around your neck 

Okay okay I know I need to stay out of this thread and after this I will


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I at work so I can't reply to all the questions just yet... I will in time.
> 
> I am 38, wife is 37, I have two sons 12,9. We have been married 12 years, I have had numerous A's (different degrees) ; I have slept with 9 different women in those 12 years.
> 
> ...


Without the possibility of losing everything you have to continue hiding etc etc?
You've ALREADY lost everything. You just dont seem to know it, because you wont ever be able to "change" without coming clean. I can assure you of that. I was like you. I was a coward, just like you. It took my wife having a two year long affair and "falling in love" with another man for me to finally see the destruction from the other side of the fence. 
So, maybe that will happen to you. 
Maybe thats what you need. Its what i needed. And let me assure you, it will F**K your life UP buddy. 
But it will make you reevaluate what you want, whats right, and more importantly, whats REAL.
Because right now, saying youre gonna hide and not come clean, thats just fear. And once you get over that, you may find that you actually end up having some respect for yourself, your wife, and your family. 
Because it is painfully obvious to me, having been there, that right now, you do not have any of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I think the Bishop is not a "common" cheater.
> 
> Yes, all are bad, yet there are varying degrees.
> 
> ...


Agree.

Can you imagine if a woman put up this thread?

I would be replying on page 987 instead of 3


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

The bishop said:


> you do what it takes to stop them. You have to be willing to end a marriage to save it. Never beg a WS...
> 
> For Part 2, I decided to go a different route and write about some main points of certain A’s and my mind set during them. Adding in some things a BS should look for and what I think has to be done to end them. I think I will add a Part 3. To detail where I am now and how I got there. I was to just add this to my initial thread titled “Can a Serial Cheater/ Narcissist Change his Stripes” but since the theme is different I thought it deserved its own thread.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't it be easier for you to be single? I don't understand why you are married.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Bishop...I highly doubt you're ever going to change your ways no matter how much you say you want to. In your post, you romanticize this whole bullsh-t called an affair. It's f'ng horrible what you do. Period.

You have a family that you're totally screwing over for your own pleasure. And how sad is that? In the end, think of it this way: You're risking your entire family. For what? An orgasm. That's it. That's all.

You're putting yourself AND your wife at risk for STD's. You pay attention to other women for selfish and horrible reasons instead of putting that energy into your wife and family. I can't imagine how many people you have hurt in your process of egotistical urges. 

You are truly sad. Your actions make me sick.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> Bishop - I'm going to stop posting for awhile because my wounds are so raw and even though it was so nice to hear from your side, their are some real mean people on this site - telling me I need a cold shower and that I'm insensitive - they are attackers. But I really hope you will keep posting - I just can't be attacked by strangers and even though you are being attacked by these same people, I hope you are stronger than I am. Keep going and THANK YOU!!!


Just a thought Boogie. Take a look at how you responded to Bishop with so many posts and whatnot and I can tell you, my immediate reaction was, "Wow...he's got her hooked and can do it through the computer, too!"

I saw one "harsh" comment to you.

As for the people you say are "attacking" Bishop...think of it this way: To some, it seems like a thread such as this is flaunting how easy and fun it was for him to cheat.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> I've asked my husband this at least 50 times - cheaters have no interest in being single, I guess. At least my husband doesn't - he wants it ALL! A loving and classy wife - yes, I am - no cold shower needed (thanks to the other non-classy poster) and a beautiful family and yes, sex workers on the side. He said he could have it all and he did - at my expense. Cheaters think of themselves, they are selfish and I appreciate all honesty from them even if it kills my heart.


Maybe you should appreciate yourself and what you would offer someone who actually didnt take it for granted. 
Just sayin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> Bishop - I'm going to stop posting for awhile because my wounds are so raw and even though it was so nice to hear from your side, their are some real mean people on this site - telling me I need a cold shower and that I'm insensitive - they are attackers. But I really hope you will keep posting - I just can't be attacked by strangers and even though you are being attacked by these same people, I hope you are stronger than I am. Keep going and THANK YOU!!!


Weird if you ask me

Gotta say it you seem to be behaving like a lovesick teenager about this bloke and considering what type of man he is and what type of man has wrecked your life that's a bit fkd up.

a cold shower might be a good option  ...............imo of course


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> I've asked my husband this at least 50 times - cheaters have no interest in being single, I guess. At least my husband doesn't - he wants it ALL! A loving and classy wife - yes, I am - no cold shower needed (thanks to the other non-classy poster) and a beautiful family and yes, sex workers on the side. He said he could have it all and he did - at my expense. Cheaters think of themselves, they are selfish and I appreciate all honesty from them even if it kills my heart.


A pity non of them are remotely honest when they are in the thick of it tho. There's a big irony about one of them being "honest" after wreaking havoc in hundreds of peoples lives with truckloads of lies and deceit for decades 

So from this guys 'honesty' you are going to learn what exactly?. You just said "cheaters think of themselves". 

I think you're stroking his ego (just like a lot of his other woman did)


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Just a thought Boogie. Take a look at how you responded to Bishop with so many posts and whatnot and I can tell you, my immediate reaction was, *"Wow...he's got her hooked and can do it through the computer, too!"*
> 
> I saw one "harsh" comment to you.
> 
> As for the people you say are "attacking" Bishop...think of it this way: To some, it seems like a thread such as this is flaunting how easy and fun it was for him to cheat.


Precisely


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Racer said:


> Thank you for sharing Bishop. It is always nice to hear the means and methods of a wayward spouse since it is often very hidden from us betrayed spouses. Sorry folks here are bashing you instead of learning from your willingness to share.


Genuine question here 

What do you think we, what are you learning from this then?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Headspin said:


> A pity non of them are remotely honest when they are in the thick of it tho. There's a big irony about one of them being "honest" after wreaking havoc in hundreds of peoples lives with truckloads of lies and deceit for decades
> 
> So from this guys *'honesty'* you are going to learn what exactly?. You just said "cheaters think of themselves".
> 
> I think you're stroking his ego (just like a lot of his other woman did)


I'm glad you put quotations on the word honesty. Because what Bishop is doing is NOT honest. It is a horrible attempt at self-medicating by confessing. To a bunch of anonymous people. As a Catholic, I understand that.

If he were being honest, his wife would probably leave him. Let's see...ummm...9 affairs in 12 years of marriage. Not f'ng cool in the least.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

Im learning that im not the only POS cheater in the world lol. 
Im also getting an insight on the mentality of the guy my wife was banging for two years. 
Not that i dont appreciate a healthy dose of reality, but putting this guys words to my actions of the past is, well, fkn revolting. 
Difference i guess is that i would take it all back in a heart beat, do it all over. Bishop seems (imo) to think that its OKAY to do this to the people in your life because "thats just who i am". 
Its not. 
So i guess i am learning that i am happy that i figured that out. Its not ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Unless I missed it in your post,,,, my question is..

Have you confessed to your W about all your affairs?

Have you given her the choice to forgive and work "with" you or if she'd rather D your butt (as I would)...


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Unless I missed it in your post,,,, my question is..
> 
> Have you confessed to your W about all your affairs?
> 
> Have you given her the choice to forgive and work "with" you or if she'd rather D your butt (as I would)...



No he has chosen to hide it because he would lose his family. Its in his posts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I'm taking this as a window into the thoughts of the predator. I have defended my family from one already, I was so arrogant, I knew I'd 'won' when my wife chose me when confronted on d day. 

Part of the strategy I used was to communicate directly with the a$$, I wanted into his head. Mostly to expose his true nature to my WW, but also to mess with him. I know I caused him some sleepless nights. I also got to see his deceit, his manipulativeness. He tried it on me, but it didn't work. 

I also got to see his fear, and that gave me weapons to use against him. He is such a piece of sh!t, that I am certain he lied to his wife after I contacted her too, so he is still handing me those weapons, that power, if I want it.

I think, as remains does, that cheating is a response to stress inherent in us. That given the right set of circumstances, anyone could succumb. Those circumstances vary greatly though, so it is easy enough to think of one's self as immune, but I think that's delusional. With that said, I find it quite interesting to be given a window by someone who does shameful things, and at a far lower threshold than I (hope I) would. Because there are lots of people like him out there, watching us, searching for a target.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

boogie110 said:


> Racer - I wish everyone could just get this - if not, just go to one of the thousands of other posts and let those of us who appreciate Bishops honesty be....
> 
> I've been attacked because I want to know things about Bishop - one awful attack was that I needed a cold shower:sleeping: Not only do they attack Bishop's honesty but they attack me for asking honest questions - LIKE WHAT MAKES BISHOP SO ATTRACTIVE TO OTHER WOMEN WHO HAVE NEVER CHEATED BEFORE for instance, yet I need a cold shower... Very Very Very SICK!!!!~!!!!!!


It's not that he's so attractive and desirable - its that he's putting himself in position to take advantage of women. 

That's all he does..

Honestly, I could do it too. 

You know how "sparks" in relationships fade, and monotony sets in? 

To be a "bishop," all you have to do is zoom in on that situation, and put yourself in position to make the women feel desirable, wanted, and eventually direct it towards the bedroom. 

It's not magic. It doesn't require being super desirable..

Threads like this just dress it up, and make it seem like there's more going on behind closed doors. 

Reality isn't so exciting..

Bishops are completely selfish, focused 100% on their goals, and have no qualms with taking advantage of other people.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Bishop...I highly doubt you're ever going to change your ways no matter how much you say you want to. In your post, you romanticize this whole bullsh-t called an affair. It's f'ng horrible what you do. Period.





naga75 said:


> Im learning that im not the only POS cheater in the world lol.
> Im also getting an insight on the mentality of the guy my wife was banging for two years.
> Not that i dont appreciate a healthy dose of reality, but putting this guys words to my actions of the past is, well, fkn revolting.
> Difference i guess is that i would take it all back in a heart beat, do it all over.


Naga, can I ask, how was it you realised you didn't want to be that person anymore? What changed you? 

Usually there is some major incident that causes change. It is not a frequent thing to wake up one morning and change a behaviour trait. 

Somedaydig, I didn't see the romanticising in the post. I have just read facts. Maybe he is romanticising. Maybe that is why he still catches the ladies through the way he speaks his words. I find myself weirdly attracted to him. I have never met, never seen, and had minimal contact. I am one of the people he talks about at the beginning of thread 1 who pm'd him. I exchanged 2 asking him about why he is as he is and could he ever truly change. I was interested...even though a man like him had screwed me up. I was interested because he came to threads telling BS's exactly how they should be treating their waywards. Not softly softly. Harsh consequences. 

What would a cheater be doing on a betrayed website, giving good advice to people who are suffering at the hands of someone else like him, and now giving their story, opening himself up for abuse and derision, if he is exactly the same person and holds no intentions for change, and truly cares not a jot? Doesn't make sense to me. I think that's a good trait, face up to what u have done and take whatever sh*t flies at you. I do that....not a lot of people do though. Very few I would say.

So, minimal contact, and then reading his posts of advice to others over several months, and then his thread. I didn't even know how old he was til this thread. And yet before he even started his own thread I felt an attraction to him. How weird is that! 

That, I think, is the part that interests me hugely in this. Having the opportunity to hear why a person like my man is like he is. And does he have the capacity to stop? And secondly, what is it about them that is attractive. That very subtle charm. What is it? I am baffled as to why I am. But there have been a few on here that I have started to feel attracted to. Usually the harsher advice givers and more like bricks around.the head, (with a softer side too) (my god. I think I have just slotted straight into machiavelli's ideas on how it shld be. I thought I disagreed with them!) 

I know I have read that bishop has stopped his cheating ways. That is why he is in therapy. Whether he can change forever is another thing entirely. I hope he does manage to keep his resolve to be a better man. 

Bishop, you will be a much happier and contented man when you can be a better man.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

lesley70 said:


> Bishop, can I ask a few questions from a BS point of view? I like your honest posts.
> 
> Are you still having affairs and ONS or have you broken this destructive regime? *no, not since seeking help*
> 
> ...


*I live a double life, I am able to be in an A and still show no signs of guilt. I never have been caught cause I show no signs of cheating*


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

The bishop said:


> *I live a double life, I am able to be in an A and still show no signs of guilt. I never have been caught cause I show no signs of cheating*


 bravo!


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

badbane said:


> Yea Bishop and the sad thing is you have just accepted your behavior and not changed at all. You say your spouse would have to be a cheater for your conscience to be better.
> 
> I am sorry but when I hear this coming from you. Also Not every bishop out there is bad, it doesn't matter if you are a bishop or a Penn State Football coach child abuse is wrong. That doesn't mean there aren't any good bishops out there. I am not catholic but I am a Christian and I believe we are all sinners. Therefore anyone is capable of anything at anytime. I am not trying to start a religious debate but, merely pointing out that child abuse is wrong and it's everywhere and you can't blame the whole for the individual choices of deeply disturbed individuals.
> 
> ...


I have stopped. I wouldn't be here if I continued my past behavior. I write in both the past and present tense cause, though I stopped, I am still that person, still have those impulses. For many that is hard to understand. Sorry if that confuses some.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I have stopped. I wouldn't be here if I continued my past behavior. I write in both the past and present tense cause, though I stopped, I am still that person, still have those impulses. For many that is hard to understand. Sorry if that confuses some.


If you lined up against a wall all the people who's lives you have utterly decimated - men woman children parents grandparents how long would it take you to apologize to them all?

Probably a lot of kids, now older who have turned out very different after your 'intervention'


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

badbane said:


> Okay now to argue a few points Cheater are going to cheat unless........... They choose to stop cheating.
> You can't put the responsibility of ending cheating on the Loyal Spouse that is Affair 101. I mean have read tons of stories where. the BS "does the 180","goes to MC", and tries hard but it is always on the Cheater to fix themselves. Once the cheater decides to stop then things can move forward.
> 
> judging by your intro and the statements in your body it seems like you want to stop, you want to get caught, that is your fault not your wife's. Your wife is trusting you and you are walking all over it. I am glad for your honesty but I wouldn't be doing my part if I didn't try to reach out.


It is never the responsibility of a BS to end cheating, but for the ones that want R and a truly remorseful spouse, their actions can certainly help the cheater see what they have to lose, they have to see reality, with consequences, take the romanizing out of it, make it something disgusting. If not, I fear that a cheater will be able to cheat again.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> You are so amazing to take the time and write all this. THANK YOU!
> 
> I hope that after #4 - now you did write this so I am holding you to this - that you will continue to contribute in all sorts of ways in the future.
> 
> ...


I am 38 and attractive. There isn't anything special I do to attract someone, as anyone really can. Their are a lot of faithful men who are more attractive, charming & charismatic. 

I just seem to have an attraction to women with tattoos. As I have plenty myself.

I never been with a prostitute, Technically I did pay for sex, with the therapist. I have been to strip clubs. Message parlors seem cleaner then street prostitutes.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I think the Bishop is not a "common" cheater.
> 
> Yes, all are bad, yet there are varying degrees.
> 
> ...


I understand. The reason it took 4 months to post this is because some would get very upset about it and others would wonder what is the point. I am not trying to gloat, but show the the other side and what one thinks.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Headspin said:


> Well yeah
> 
> 'I banged this one and that one and that one and and this one and .... yeah it completely fked up all their lives from top to bottom countless people in turmoil because of my big fat ****.
> 
> ...


If I told the same story but excluded myself, it would still be a fact. Any OM/OW can reconnect with their AP, if you look at the past fondly, as she does why wouldn't it be easy to reconnect! That is why getting you wayward to be disgusted by it, their AP, and themselves is a must. Ask some of the past waywards on this site what they think about that. If you can't see past the messenger your going to miss the message. Q


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Wouldn't it be easier for you to be single? I don't understand why you are married.


Yes it would. Not only on my W. I only cheat with someone who has as much to lose as I do. If that wasn't the case, I would stick to single women. But, I wanted it all.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

naga75 said:


> Im learning that im not the only POS cheater in the world lol.
> Im also getting an insight on the mentality of the guy my wife was banging for two years.
> Not that i dont appreciate a healthy dose of reality, but putting this guys words to my actions of the past is, well, fkn revolting.
> Difference i guess is that i would take it all back in a heart beat, do it all over. Bishop seems (imo) to think that its OKAY to do this to the people in your life because "thats just who i am".
> ...


For years it was exactly that..... "This is who I am". Not now, again I am not self medicating, I wouldn't be here if I was still continuing my behavior, what some cant and won't get is why I just can't stop. Well i have, but like drug addiction, smoking, unhealthy eating, or any bad behaviors, it is ingrained in myself. I understand those who doesn't get it, or see it as a cop out. All i can say is if you would have to walk in my shoes to understand how ****ed up I really am.... Worse then you would think, cause to me it isn't as easy as just stopping... Even with the fact that I can lose it all.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Remains said:


> Naga, can I ask, how was it you realised you didn't want to be that person anymore? What changed you?
> 
> Usually there is some major incident that causes change. It is not a frequent thing to wake up one morning and change a behaviour trait.
> 
> ...


Well of course you do . I am very much like your SO as you state, you still seem to really love him, and want him to at least take ownership of his behavior and try to change them, as I am trying to do.... Your projecting myself on to your SO and that attracts you. It goes both ways, as I am attractive to you cause you struggle loving a man like me and all I can hope is my wife does the same.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Thus the slippery slope has been found. At least this gives a great example of how EA's begin and can easily progress.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Bishop,you dont seem to afraid of being caught.
My wife had an EA with old hs bf,they even met up a couple times but the PA part never happened,I broke it up.
Then I relentlessly went after him and ruined him.
So bad that he set up fights with me then ran when I went after him.
Hes homeless and broke.
He broke up a few families in the past.
Are you not afraid that one day you'll run across someone who will not stop coming after you.
He was careful also.
Now he's sorry as hell and always looking over his shoulder.
There are consiquences on both sides of the ball and sometimes they are harsh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Yea...imagine if I was after you.:FIREdevil:


But you know what Bishop, I'll give you credit. 
You got balls to be able to post this, knowing you are going to be judged and ripped apart by some people, but post anyway. 
My hats off to you sir.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Juicer said:


> Yea...imagine if I was after you.:FIREdevil:
> 
> 
> But you know what Bishop, I'll give you credit.
> ...


Yeah,not going to rip him apart and he does have balls.
Good thread for a foggy WS to read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

The bishop said:


> *I live a double life, I am able to be in an A and still show no signs of guilt. I never have been caught cause I show no signs of cheating*


Would you ever consider, now that you are experiencing a conscience, of maybe having trust enough in your wife to maybe come clean on this secret aspect of your life? As you say yourself, "cheaters will always cheat.......unless" outing to your wife maybe the only way that you will fully experience the pain you have caused, and that maybe would be enough for you to stay 'clean'.

You believe she will end your marriage, but maybe she would give you one chance to never cheat again. Your very best incentive?

You appear to love your wife, so does she not, now, deserve the truth about you? Won't it always be like 'dead bodies in the cellar' rotting away, smelling until you have them removed. That caller is like your foundation for your life with your family......if its got rotten things in it, they won't just vanish, even eventually, the remains will always remain!

I believe, if you really want help now, and really want to change, you need to out yourself to the one you love, yes, the **** will hit the fan, but if she loves you and feels you have been finally honest, and that you fully intend to change, and recover, you could have that chance with the clean foundations. 

There is always a possibility you will be 'outed' by another, even years down the line. I just recently discovered by H had ONS's with colleagues 6, 4 and 2 years ago.....i didn't have a clue about any of this until about 18 months ago.....if i wanted to I could blow OW marriages sky high, and I'm still considering this route.....the OW have walked away from these incidents Scott free whilst my marriage is in major trauma.

From personal experience, I would say to you, your wife, at the very least, deserves the truth from you, because you realised it was the right thing to do. If she should find out from another, or come across the truth herself, it will be 100% worse for you both.

I speak to you, as a BW, of a man I trusted almost completely....loved completely, and I feel at this moment in time, the only thing that will prevent him reoffending is knowing the complete and utter pain he has caused me, the very real risk of almost losing everything, and all for what? He is on a life long probation in our marriage, if he f*cks it up I won't hesitate to end our marriage, but at least I am giving him the opportunity. 

He won't get a second chance....and if I find out anything else from his past that he hasn't disclosed, I will walk.......

You should give your wife this opportunity, and you can both start again, cleanly, openly.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Thus the slippery slope has been found. At least this gives a great example of how EA's begin and can easily progress.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe in your mind, but that is not how I operate. 

I was stating a fact, discussing the topic with other opinions that were stated. I have stated that fact to many people I think are attractive. Men and women. But never more than a compliment. Never pursued. The bishop has been on my 'friends' list soon after he joined. The only person on my 'friends' list, I haven't requested any. And I am glad to have the bishop on my friends list. Have I pursued anything due to an attraction? I think not! That is the 1st time I have mentioned attraction due to the pointers at boogie....she did seem a little wild! I am interested in exploring these issues being disussed...and thus I stated what I did.

EA? Beginning of an EA? Your making me laugh now. Though I guess your point was that that is how they start...yes...in many ways they start. Many. But an EA only truly goes anywhere when an attraction is pursued.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

*Here is what we're dealing with. Bishop's original post, below, received a lot of negative responses. I'm sure, in his mind, he decided, rather than continue his 2nd part of the same story in that highly negative thread, he would create a new one and reach out for that attention he needs so badly.*

"Quite Long and Only Part 1.

I have been posting on here for a couple months now; one afternoon I decided to check out some infidelity forums since I am knee deep in “the cause” of such anguish and pain. I already knew the “cheater side” all too well, understood the magnitude of an affair, but felt the need to “look deeper” into the aftermath of such betrayal. I wasn’t planning to post, since I was/am part of the problem (the enemy so to speak). Yet, after reading thread after thread, and seeing a common theme, I started posting. I believe there is only one way to deal with a cheater, and that is with harsh consequences. Not begging & not being weak. This is because if you ask any cheater, they want to be in control with little to no consequences. 

So I just started posting, mentioning in my posts that I am a cheater, but never sharing much details past that. I mean who really wants to know why someone is so selfish. Why someone is willing to ruin lives and willing to hurt loves one? Why can’t someone just stop such pathetic behavior? I mean, does anyone here really want to know anything about someone who was willing to cause the pain that most of you have experienced/ or experiencing? Yet, I have had PM’s asking just that, so I guess I should share my story. I hope it doesn’t set off any triggers to some of you and I will keep from getting into too much detail.

To start off, I am a diagnosed Narcissist and all that goes with it, a serial cheater, a liar, a manipulator, a predator, who only thinks of myself and believes I can control any situation. I also could be considered a borderline (non-violent) Sociopath. Yeah… that was shocking to find out, cause I always thought of sociopaths as anti-social violent criminals… but there are (per my therapist, 1 out of 25 adults show sociopathic tendencies) non-violent sociopaths. In my case, I do have somewhat of a conscience, but I am very able to live two lives without any noticeable signs of guilt or regret. 

I had a very normal upbringing, I wasn’t spoiled, I wasn’t mothered, and my parents are still happily married. Yet, even as a young child I have been sneaky, and once I started dating, I was manipulative and used for my own warped entertainment. I have always been charming, charismatic, and sociable. Very well-liked by many, and I have never had any problems getting attention from the opposite sex. I mean I have dark mysterious features that just fit perfectly with my personality and I used it to my advantage. I use to cheat on my girlfriends, with their best friends, and cheat on the best friend, with another of their friends. I did this all the time, never cared about their feelings and really got off on being deviant. (I know I am not a good person). I almost always got away with it and if there were any questions I usually talked my way out of any suspicion. 

The first time I was an OM was when I was 17. I had an A with my married spanish teacher. Yeah just like what you see in the news just that we never got caught. I never shared any of these activities, especially her with anyone; I didn’t have to tell my friends about my conquests… yeah some suspected the girlfriends, but no one ever knew about her. It started sexual but it did get emotional with crazy confessions and fantasy land. It went on for almost 2 years until I went away to school. Looking back, I kind of cringe, it was very deceitful; but then, I loved it, it was intense and exciting… this was before texting and even cell phones (I had a pager); we would write notes and use land line phones. I would continue to chase this high for years to come, and I understand the lure and high of an affair.

When I was 24, I met my wife. I instantly was attracted to her and she made me chase her just a bit cause she is a good girl who really is the opposite of me in every way, she thinks of others before herself and although incredibly stunning, doesn’t know how to flirt and isn’t aware when someone is flirting with her. When we first started dating, I was actually faithful, and didn’t even crave any other. I never was like this before as it was the first time I actually fell in love. Gawd, I still love her just as much, and I recently learned that I wasn’t just drawn to her beauty but her healthy personality and virtues (opposite of mine). It seems Narcissists seek the opposite of themselves as companions. 
Well unfortunately I didn’t stay true to her and began some of my old ways. I did change some of my boundaries so to speak. Where I use to cheat with my girlfriends friends, actually seeking it, I never did that again, I made a point to not ever cheat on her with anyone she knew personally. (oh so noble huh??) The first time was with a high school friend’s sister, who I use to be with in secrecy throughout high school. It was the only time anyone caught us and it was her mom (the sister’s) in the act. She never said anything to anyone as she didn’t know I had a girlfriend, but her daughter got a talking too as she did have a boyfriend. As the years went by I moved in with my future W but really started living the double life. I didn’t cheat all the time but I still cheated.

Once I moved in with her I knew I could never do any better and asked her to marry me, this was the beginning of me regretting my behavior and questioning why I was how I was. I was having a full on A shortly after the engagement and didn’t end it until a month after being married. This was the only time I ever lied to an AP about my situation, and led her to believe I was not engaged, but that I only had a live in girlfriend. I also look back at this with the most disgust, cause of the timing, and how I was totally living two lives when I was about to start a committed life with someone who loved me unconditionally. Before this I never took relationships seriously cause it wasn’t a real commitment; it was my way of downplaying hurting her. 

After I ended it I was really going to try to be faithful and that became easier once I found out my W was pregnant. We were only married for a couple months and I still was cheating on a couple occasions when I would go see AP from the engagement. Yet after we found out about the pregnancy, I totally ended it with her, telling her about the pregnancy. This because another rule of mine, which just recently, I learned, shows I am capable of stopping my behavior. I wouldn’t cheat on her while she was pregnant, and had no problem doing just that. Actually I been in plenty of A’s and had some ONS (not to many) but I have had long period of no adulterous activities. 

After my son was born and after the incredible high from being a new father and bringing life into the world, I was feeling overwhelmed and looking for escapes. But this time I recognized it and in a slight depression (cause I wanted to be a great father and husband) went for help. It was the first time I realized I may not be able to stop my behaviors without it…. I went to see a female therapist who really seemed disgusted by what I was telling her and shocked that I just couldn’t stop. I only had on session and she sent me to a male counterpart. He wasn’t any help either, as he tried but his methods were too weak and I stopped going. Well my W knew I was dealing with being a new father and I sugar coated it to her that I just wanted to talk to someone about life changes and doing right for my family. Since she was still enrolled in school she was able to get me to see a counselor through the university who referred me to a husband/wife practice who dealt with life changes and marriage counseling. 

Disclaimer- I am a known liar as I stated earlier, but I swear this is no tall tale this all actually happened and very real I bring this up cause it is about to get a bit crazy.-

Well I decided to see the wife as I have always picked females over men in any type of care. Well it started off great, she seemed to understand, said something I was actually thinking and the first two sessions seemed to at least put me at ease, I still had thoughts, actually thoughts about her and I purposely mentioned this to her like I had to cause she was helping me, she took the bait and with her H across the hall or sessions got sexual. I know straight from penthouse letters…. But No Lie…. Her excuse for this, she was my surrogate, I was to only have extramarital with her as we worked on weaning me and such… never happened as we never weaned I actually would started lying to her as well about what I was doing. This ended when we moved because of my work. 

I will have to continue when I have more time…. I wrote a bunch more than I thought I would and I am still a good 10 years away from now…. Not sure if this is the right place to post, if there is even a place, but at least you get a look into the drama one lives as a narcissist."​
And my response remains the same...

*You've been played Bishop, they (the people who are supposed to help you), told you you have a disease, that you're not the reason, that you're sick, you have a thing called narcissism, and other $100 an hour psychobabble. You've been played, you've been sold a bill of goods, the player is actually the one being played. Imagine that, you, the one who thought he was the player, let himself be used by multiple girls and even a counselor, they used YOU. You're not sick, you're spoiled, you grew up with better than average looks and charm, you're overindulged, and you're a lesser man for it. The women/girls took your honor and the "Dr's" took your money.​*
Bishop, you present your story in such a way that reveals you're nature. You act as if you want to help bereaved spouses with vital OM information; but that is a lie you're telling yourself. The truth is that, like other serial behavior, you enjoying reliving what you've done, you're savoring the telling of the story, not the helping of the bereaved.

You'll be over your selfish behavior when your heart gets crushed. Right now you THINK you know the damage you have inflicted, but you don't, you know it conceptually, but until you know it experientially, you won't understand it.

T


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Just spent last half hour reading through your threads

1. This guy is not being honest with anyone he is playing all of you
2. Why are so many females on here sucking up to this guys ego?
3. If this was your husband/wifehow would you feel!
4. This comes across to me like he's gloating because he's never been caught!
5. He needs to be honest with himself first then his family then he might stop but I doubt it.
6. He's never seen the hurt he has caused anyone and not felt that hurt himself.

7. I have been a cheater and seen that hurt in a loved ones eyes and nearly had my family ripped apart by my actions and felt that hurt of being the one to nearly destroy it all.

8. The only one thing I can agree with all the points is that the husband/wife do need to be harsh to stop it and try and recover but this guy will never know.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> Does this whole post mean you'll go on having as many affairs as you can because you're just an Affair kind of guy?


No, it means he is baring his soul here in an attempt to show how a player operates and how to try to help other TAMers stop their WS having an affair.

The reverend (that's how you address a Bishop!) is going through counselling to help him stop his cheating behaviour.

I applaud his candour and pray that his counselling works.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

What I write very well may come across as gloating or reliving my past.... I don't mean it to, I am just telling you like it is, I never have been caught, I have had multiple affairs. I have done all types of horrible things, I am disgusted by it and have stopped, yet I still struggle with my past behavior and impulses. 

I am not here to win over the crowd, as I understand why some would never trust my intentions.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

A true narcissist does not realize he/she is one.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Bishop if you really want to feel what most are feeling on this site from either being the betrayed or the betrayer then tell your spouse otherwise I'm afraid it does come across as gloating, I'm no angel and only came clean when backed in a corner but reading your 'story' it is only that are there are no consequences for you yet!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The bishop said:


> What I write very well may come across as gloating or reliving my past.... I don't mean it to, I am just telling you like it is, I never have been caught, I have had multiple affairs. I have done all types of horrible things, I am disgusted by it and have stopped, yet I still struggle with my past behavior and impulses.
> 
> I am not here to win over the crowd, as I understand why some would never trust my intentions.


I once interviewed someone for a newspaper. He was a burglar who had turned over a new leaf and was working officially with the police to help the public protect themselves. You are doing a similar thing, here, I think.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Maybe a teaspoon of saltpeter in your morning cup of coffee could help out with your "impulses".


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

megmg said:


> Bishop if you really want to feel what most are feeling on this site from either being the betrayed or the betrayer then tell your spouse otherwise I'm afraid it does come across as gloating, I'm no angel and only came clean when backed in a corner but reading your 'story' it is only that are there are no consequences for you yet!


Not to me. I have heard someone gloating about an affair for real. Believe me, The Bishop is not gloating. He is merely reporting what happened.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Can I ask what brought you here? You have no consequences to change your behaviour yet seek help? From what I have seen/read people end up here after being found out or discovering a betrayal,

What changed in your life to bring you to this point?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

:scratchhead:

I'm trying to figure out who the "attackers" are here.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

you don't have to tell him not to tell his wife - he won't tell his wife because he has no balls at all

I hope she's banging someone else


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This thread is one of those that has the capability of going bad, rather quickly.

Folks, if you feel the need to start writing rude, snarky comments and such like and attacking the OP, do be careful. Please don't get banned, OK?

If this thread is triggering you (and yes, it's impacted on me in a negative way too, on a personal level) please do not respond in anger or in outrage in the thread. Don't want anyone banned for hurting a bit too much...


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Will you tell your wife? the ultimate in feeling true remorse? face the consequences?

Or remain a coward........she deserves to know who you really are.

Wouldn't you agree?

we had a guy on here a few weeks ago told his wife he had been having a one year PA with a colleague whilst his W was 8 months pregnant, he did the right thing....'fessed up. The sh*t hit the fan for him, but the fact he told the truth will probably mean he will end up R with his wife. he did wrong, big time, but he did the right thing in the end.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

megmg said:


> Bishop if you really want to feel what most are feeling on this site from either being the betrayed or the betrayer then tell your spouse otherwise I'm afraid it does come across as gloating, I'm no angel and only came clean when backed in a corner but reading your 'story' it is only that are there are no consequences for you yet!


If I said I totally agree with you and plan to do just that would you believe me?

I can tell you as some other posters pointed out, I haven't had my heart broken, I haven't felt any consequences, however, I am aware of the importance of both happening. I also understand that if I don't kill that part of me, I easily can fall back into it and can't truly change if I continue living a lie, which I would be doing even if I stopped but hid the past. I struggle with what to do daily, and have had this discussion with my therapist. I can't hide from it and will have to face it at some point.

I fear consequences the most. As any cheater should and does.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Not to me. I have heard someone gloating about an affair for real. Believe me, The Bishop is not gloating. He is merely reporting what happened.


Ahhhh, MattMatt, I like you but, I disagree. I think he is very proud of his escapades and his ability to elude being caught. I feel so very sorry for his wife. She has no clue what she is married to and sadly probably never will.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Well, I guess I'm in the opposite camp. I think it's cowardly to not tell your wife Bishop. I think it shows the truth behind a real cheater and that is that a tiger can never change it's stripes. You can claim this that and the other of how you want to change, however a change would mean a true 180 turn from your present course of lying and manipulation to one of pure and brutal honesty.

As for the poster who says "You can't handle the truth" being shown in this thread...well, I'd ask: What truth? The one of a lying and deceiving OM?

A lot of us who have been betrayed have handled more truth than most in this world will ever know and have to be shown. It sucks. And that truth sucks pretty bad. I don't apologize for not buying into this whole 'trying to help others' rouse. I tend to agree with Tony about the serial issue. It's like Buffalo Bill taking his skins as trophies.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> *You've been played Bishop, they (the people who are supposed to help you), told you you have a disease, that you're not the reason, that you're sick, you have a thing called narcissism, and other $100 an hour psychobabble. You've been played, you've been sold a bill of goods, the player is actually the one being played. Imagine that, you, the one who thought he was the player, let himself be used by multiple girls and even a counselor, they used YOU. You're not sick, you're spoiled, you grew up with better than average looks and charm, you're overindulged, and you're a lesser man for it. The women/girls took your honor and the "Dr's" took your money.*
> 
> 
> Bishop, you present your story in such a way that reveals you're nature. You act as if you want to help bereaved spouses with vital OM information; but that is a lie you're telling yourself. The truth is that, like other serial behavior, you enjoying reliving what you've done, you're savoring the telling of the story, not the helping of the bereaved.
> ...


:iagree:

I wasn't going to post on this thread because then I would be guilty of doing exactly what The bishop desired when he created the thread.... he desired to have his ego fed and to show all of the male BS's just how easily he can charm women, even betrayed wives. 

By even responding to this thread we are feeding his insatiable need for validation, validation that he counts, that he has value, even if his value, here, is to _"show" all of us his true altruistic nature  by providing valuable insight into the mind of a narcissistic, serial cheater...(gag)_ In his never-ending, unmet quest for validation, he proves not that he is "The Man," he is simply a very empty man, a hollow man, a man who keeps searching for his own value and self-worth, but continues to come up empty. Ladies, I fear that those of you who are being sucked in by this pathetic excuse for a man will continue to be betrayed over and over, again, because you may be trying to fulfill an unmet need of your own.... you erroneously think you can "fix" him. It's so sad that you are falling all over yourselves clamoring to get the attention of a man who repeatedly betrays his wife and family and the lives of countless others. Did your own spouse who betrayed you not do you enough harm? Do you need more? 

bishop, you aren't posting on this forum to help others. You came here to "help yourself." But, not really.... not to become a better man, not to atone for your transgressions in some small way, you came here to "help yourself" to the leftover carnage of hurting BS's, WS's and broken families. You may find a few, here, who are vulnerable to your sociopathy, but most of us see you as the very pathetic, empty, shell of a man that you really are. I don't find you to be charismatic, at all. I find you to be repulsive.

~EI


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I was concerned that I would trigger some of you.... I do apologize for that. I don't have a problem with what anyone is saying about me, and won't report anyone and I hope nobody gets banned.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

The bishop said:


> If I said I totally agree with you and plan to do just that would you believe me?
> 
> I can tell you as some other posters pointed out, I haven't had my heart broken, I haven't felt any consequences, however, I am aware of the importance of both happening. I also understand that if I don't kill that part of me, I easily can fall back into it and can't truly change if I continue living a lie, which I would be doing even if I stopped but hid the past. I struggle with what to do daily, and have had this discussion with my therapist. I can't hide from it and will have to face it at some point.
> 
> I fear consequences the most. As any cheater should and does.


No I dont think Bishop is a troll,in a strange way I think he's trying to give a warning.
Just remember Bishop,it doesnt matter how carefull you are,evidence is always left behind at the scene of the crime.
Our OM got away with it with others for awhile,he didnt get far with me.He used to call and taunt me,the calls did stop,I didnt.The last call I recieved from him was him telling me how I ruined his life and I did to a degree but I'm not done with him yet.When he gets comfortable and thinks all is good,I strike.
You just might meet up with a BH one day who is hell bent on giving it back to you 20 fold.
Get counseling and change your ways,what youre doing isnt going to last forever.
I still do tip my hat to you for coming on here and telling your story,it took guts.
Better quit while youre ahead,I know our OM told some ex friends he never wished he met my wife and that I was crazy.....just saying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

answer some questions?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> Ahhhh, MattMatt, I like you but, I disagree. I think he is very proud of his escapades and his ability to elude being caught. I feel so very sorry for his wife. She has no clue what she is married to and sadly probably never will.


Even so, his tips of how he operated will be useful for some poor soul here on TAM.

And I think what we are seeing here is someone working through therapy who may start the process with a bit of gloating, but who -if his therapist is any good- will end up without the gloat in his soul.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

calvin said:


> You just might meet up with a BH one day who is hell bent on giving it back to you 20 fold.
> Better quit while youre ahead,I know our OM told some ex friends he never wished he met my wife and that I was crazy.....just saying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let's see...the xOM who was with my wife has/had(?) a great career as an attorney.

I exposed him to his wife and she left him immediately.

I posted him on Cheaterville and he's had half a million hits.

If someone looks him up on Google for attorney services, his Cheaterville profile is the #1 response for his name.

Calvin...you are so correct in that if someone wants to ruin your life for ruining theirs...they WILL find a way. And succeed.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

calvin said:


> I still do tip my hat to you for coming on here and telling your story,it took guts.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Caaaaaalvin..........Noooooooo, it didn't take any "guts," at all. It took an afternoon and a keyboard.
_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Even so, his tips of how he operated will be useful for some poor soul here on TAM.
> 
> And I think what we are seeing here is someone working through therapy who may start the process with a bit of gloating, but who -if his therapist is any good- will end up without the gloat in his soul.


MM...in all honesty, Regret went through IC. ALL counselors will tell their clients to NOT reveal stuff. That's just it. They will allow the betrayal to continue. They're looking out for the best interest of their clients...not their spouses. They will ALWAYS say not to reveal. That kind of stuff is all over TAM.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

@ Reasons:
What changed me was my wife doing to me what i had been doing to her. Only worse, instead of a few ons or bjs here an there, she had a two year EA/PA, fell in love, hated my guts, and lied to me every day for two years almost. 
Yes, that changed me. I saw that my behavior, which i had justified as "its just who i am", had very REAL and very POWERFUL consequences. 
I can tell you all, especially Bishop, he WILL NOT CHANGE OR STOP until he is put in the same position. Period. He may go for awhile without it, but he will not stop, he will not change. After all, why should he?
@ Calvin:
Yup. Like you, the OM thinks i am bat sh!t crazy. And i pretty much am. 
He told me early on before my WW came out of the fog he could "get" her i he wanted. I made it clear. CLEAR. the next thing he would "get" would be a broken face and a big ER bill. 
He believed me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

megmg said:


> Can I ask what brought you here? You have no consequences to change your behaviour yet seek help? From what I have seen/read people end up here after being found out or discovering a betrayal,
> 
> What changed in your life to bring you to this point?


I was going to tell how I came to this point as (part 3). I am not sure if I should do that. I can tell I am really pissing people off and I swear that isn't my intention.

Basically the last A I had was the worst and I was putting it before my family and I felt totally drained because of it. I have two boys who need a father who puts them, before himself. My wife also deserves a husband that only loves her. As bad as my behavior was, I always knew this, but as another poster pointed out correctly, I followed the mantra "this is who I am". It wasn't right. I love my family and they deserve so much better. 

It is as simple as that. What most live by, I didn't, but want to now.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Let's see...the xOM who was with my wife has/had(?) a great career as an attorney.
> 
> I exposed him to his wife and she left him immediately.
> 
> ...


I was highly motivated Dig and I still am.
Excellent job by you Dig...feels good to get more than even but in my case om deserved it and I'm not done,he wont prey on another SAHM again.
Justice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

are you going to tell your wife? you know it's the only TRUE way forward............


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

calvin said:


> I was highly motivated Dig and I still am.
> Excellent job by you Dig...feels good to get more than even but in my case om deserved it and I'm not done,he wont prey on another SAHM again.
> Justice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Justice is right, Brother.

If Bishop is lucky, he might be spared his justice. I hope not.

So, Bishop...what do you think about my comment that a MAN who is truly willing to change all that he is makes a 180 degree turn and goes from liar/betrayer to the honest MAN he should be?


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

I thought you said you never showed 'signs of cheating' which is why you'd never been caught? If you were putting your last affair before your family then how can this be? Or maybe your wife just isn't that into you and didn't notice?


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I was going to tell how I came to this point as (part 3). I am not sure if I should do that. I can tell I am really pissing people off and I swear that isn't my intention.
> 
> Basically the last A I had was the worst and I was putting it before my family and I felt totally drained because of it. I have two boys who need a father who puts them, before himself. My wife also deserves a husband that only loves her. As bad as my behavior was, I always knew this, but as another poster pointed out correctly, I followed the mantra "this is who I am". It wasn't right. I love my family and they deserve so much better.
> 
> It is as simple as that. What most live by, I didn't, but want to now.



This sounds like what my W and her OM would say to each other early on after i found out. 
"We're still good parents and spouses, we put family first"
Um. WRONG. 
I hate to say it my friend, but it wasnt the "last affair" you put before your family. 
You put ALL of them before your family. All of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Justice is right, Brother.
> 
> If Bishop is lucky, he might be spared his justice. I hope not.
> 
> So, Bishop...what do you think about my comment that a MAN who is truly willing to change all that he is makes a 180 degree turn and goes from liar/betrayer to the honest MAN he should be?


I dont know what he thinks, but i can tell you that i think that i have done this and it is LIBERATING to say the least. 
And after living wrong for so long, it is such a different and honestly, fantastic, feeling to be a real man again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> I thought you said you never showed 'signs of cheating' which is why you'd never been caught? If you were putting your last affair before your family then how can this be?
> 
> 
> I have to agree to some extent, maybe BS is having some fun herself and maybe Bishop doesn't know about it, he's been way too busy to notice!


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

naga75 said:


> I dont know what he thinks, but i can tell you that i think that i have done this and it is LIBERATING to say the least.
> And after living wrong for so long, it is such a different and honestly, fantastic, feeling to be a real man again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife, Regret, has expressed the same thing to me. She said it was liberating that she didn't have to live the lie any longer. She could finally be honest with me. She could open up and fully connect with me on a level that we haven't been on since 6 years into our marriage. Our love is so strong now and is better than it ever has been

THAT only comes from truth and honesty in a marriage.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I was going to tell how I came to this point as (part 3). I am not sure if I should do that. I can tell I am really pissing people off and I swear that isn't my intention.
> 
> Basically the last A I had was the worst and I was putting it before my family and I felt totally drained because of it. I have two boys who need a father who puts them, before himself. My wife also deserves a husband that only loves her. As bad as my behavior was, I always knew this, but as another poster pointed out correctly, I followed the mantra "this is who I am". It wasn't right. I love my family and they deserve so much better.
> 
> It is as simple as that. What most live by, I didn't, but want to now.


Yes but Bishop,you will slip up sooner or later.
You might run across a WW who cant stand the guilt and fesses up.What you are doing is wrong,you said that but you have yet to face consequences for what your doing,so you wont stop.
Believe me you will get caught and the one of the BS's will make it their mission in life to come after you again and again.
They will use certain tactics to make you hurt for a long time...I did and my wife knows a lot of what I've done to the POS but not all.
At least you didnt rub it in the BH's face like I had done to me.
BTW my wife did pretty much confess after awhile and I had one day of TT.
Youre not playing with fire,you just might be laying with your life and the safety of you family.
I'm not out to hurt no one but the om,his family had nothing to do with it but you are putting your family in danger.
Get therapy and counseling and stop man.
You might run across a nut bag of a husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> _Caaaaaalvin..........Noooooooo, it didn't take any "guts," at all. It took an afternoon and a keyboard.
> _


Youre right Empty,my bad.I stand corrected
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

calvin said:


> Youre right Empty,my bad.I stand corrected
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's okay, Calvin. You're just too good of a man. I, on the other hand, saw through him on his very first thread. I'm not sure, exactly, what that says about me.... but, I do know that I am nothing like him. Never have been.... never will be.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> It's okay, Calvin. You're just too good of a man. I, on the other hand, saw through him on his very first thread. I'm not sure, exactly, what that says about me.... but, I do know that I am nothing like him. Never have been.... never will be.


Not at all,you are working on yourself and your marriage,he is getting jollies that put people in what can be a life or death situation.
I do like the chance for a WS to see his post thought.
Shows them how phoney and selfish people can be.
I am glad he posted though,in a weird way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I wasn't going to post on this thread because then I would be guilty of doing exactly what The bishop desired when he created the thread.... he desired to have his ego fed and to show all of the male BS's just how easily he can charm women, even betrayed wives.
> 
> ...


Wow. This post has knocked the air out of me. For one, I AM NOT Here to "help myself" to anyone. To think or say otherwise is being disrespectful to those "leftovers". I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, let alone that you, a wayward who caused such carnage.

Can you please tell me what is the difference of our stories and how we shared them on here. The only difference I see is you got caught, and then decided it was wrong. Caused I never got caught I am validating myself. I am telling my story, I can't tell it any other way because I am telling it as it happened and what I was feeling at the time. It seems a lot of you can't handle that, so I must be gloating. 

You lied, you betrayed, you hid.... So did I. So since I kept doing it and you got caught and was forced to stop, you can judge me and call me repulsive. Ahhh, you are disgusted by me, as you are yourself and cheating, cheaters in general... Good for your H as you all really have a chance at true R without you cheating again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

gemjo said:


> are you going to tell your wife? you know it's the only TRUE way forward............


It's A way forward. It's what my wife did. It's what I did.

But the only TRUE way forward? I wouldn't go that far. It worked for me, but it might not work for everyone in every case.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Wow. This post has knocked the air out of me. For one, I AM NOT Here to "help myself" to anyone. To think or say otherwise is being disrespectful to those "leftovers". I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, let alone that you, a wayward who caused such carnage.
> 
> Can you please tell me what is the difference of our stories and how we shared them on here. The only difference I see is you got caught, and then decided it was wrong. Caused I never got caught I am validating myself. I am telling my story, I can't tell it any other way because I am telling it as it happened and what I was feeling at the time. It seems a lot of you can't handle that, so I must be gloating.
> 
> You lied, you betrayed, you hid.... So did I. So since I kept doing it and you got caught and was forced to stop, you can judge me and call me repulsive. Ahhh, you are disgusted by me, as you are yourself and cheating, cheaters in general... Good for your H as you all really have a chance at true R without you cheating again.


I decided it was wrong without being caught. 
I wasnt ever technically "caught", as in caught in the act or anything. 
I decided it was wrong when i myself was put into the opposite situation. 
And then i decided to have a real marriage, and came clean to my WW about my own transgressions. 
And guess what im not guilty anymore. Im not a liar anymore. Im not a bad husband anymore. 
Until you decide to so something similar, all the "im changing" and all that crap is just that. Crap. Youre just blowing smoke. 
Im not judging. Im just telling it how it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Bishop, you present your story in such a way that reveals you're nature. You act as if you want to help bereaved spouses with vital OM information; but that is a lie you're telling yourself. *The truth is that, like other serial behavior, you enjoying reliving what you've done, you're savoring the telling of the story, not the helping of the bereaved.
> *
> You'll be over your selfish behavior when your heart gets crushed. Right now you THINK you know the damage you have inflicted, but you don't, you know it conceptually, but until you know it experientially, you won't understand it.
> 
> T


On the money


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

Headspin said:


> On the money


Thats it. 
I thought i understood the pain i caused. 
Then i experienced it. 
Turned out, i didnt know sh!t. 
I just told myself i did so i could feel better about betraying someone i swore never to betray.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Wow. This post has knocked the air out of me. For one, I AM NOT Here to "help myself" to anyone. To think or say otherwise is being disrespectful to those "leftovers". I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, let alone that you, a wayward who caused such carnage.
> 
> Can you please tell me what is the difference of our stories and how we shared them on here. The only difference I see is you got caught, and then decided it was wrong. Caused I never got caught I am validating myself. I am telling my story, I can't tell it any other way because I am telling it as it happened and what I was feeling at the time. It seems a lot of you can't handle that, so I must be gloating.
> 
> You lied, you betrayed, you hid.... So did I. So since I kept doing it and you got caught and was forced to stop, you can judge me and call me repulsive. Ahhh, you are disgusted by me, as you are yourself and cheating, cheaters in general... Good for your H as you all really have a chance at true R without you cheating again.


Her response knock the air out of you for a reason
and no you are not the same,you go from person to person,family to family and do not care about the destruction left behind.
You continue to do it for selfish reasons.The I want what I want mentality will catch up to you.
It might already have and you dont know it.
Like I said,you can be as carefull as you want but one of your AP partners wont.Youre taking a big risk.
If you love you family so much you would not put them in harms way.
I'm serious as a heart attack when I say I'm not done with the POS who preyed on my wife at a bad time in her life.Her fault? You bet it was but it was also someone like you who exploited a bad time in her life and pretended to listen and be a freind.
You can cross all your T's and dot all your I's but you will get found out.
What youre doing hurts many,the domino affect is very real and you just might be the final domino to fall and fall hard and take the ones you proclaim to love with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Wow. This post has knocked the air out of me. For one, I AM NOT Here to "help myself" to anyone. To think or say otherwise is being disrespectful to those "leftovers". I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, let alone that you, a wayward who caused such carnage.
> 
> Can you please tell me what is the difference of our stories and how we shared them on here. The only difference I see is you got caught, and then decided it was wrong. Caused I never got caught I am validating myself. I am telling my story, I can't tell it any other way because I am telling it as it happened and what I was feeling at the time. It seems a lot of you can't handle that, so I must be gloating.
> 
> You lied, you betrayed, you hid.... So did I. So since I keep doing it and you got caught and was forced to stop, you can judge me and call me repulsive. Ahhh, you are disgusted by me, as you are yourself and cheating, cheaters in general... Good for your H as you all really have a chance at true R without you cheating again.


You know, it's always the comments that hit too close to home that evoke the biggest reaction. The leftover carnage that I referred to is the devastation in the lives of the spouses, children, families and friends in the wake of our betrayals. It is certainly not a character assessment of the betrayed. The only disrespect in this thread, I believe, comes from the one who would have the readers believe that he is offering a service for the betterment of mankind. And, my carnage, BTW, is sleeping, blissfully, on the sofa.

My repulsion towards you comes not from the way that you are sharing your story.... it is your story itself that repulses me. So, the difference between us is that I am not, never have been, nor ever will be a serial cheater. At the end of the day, there is no moral difference between my cheating and yours. We both cheated. I got caught. But, unlike you, I never professed to have been in a happy marriage prior to my affair. My marriage had been in a state of carnage long before my affair began. I didn't cheat for sport. I didn't go see my lover, come home, put on a happy face, pretend that all was well with the world and crawl into bed with my husband. My husband and I were living very separate lives, although we were living under the same roof, we were not having sex, sleeping together or even in the same room. And, I certainly didn't cheat with multiple partners, who I knew I wasn't in love with, without a care in the world for the well-being of their families. I cheated with one partner who I had known and had had a past relationship with before my marriage, who was not married and had no children living in his home. Do I think that makes my betrayal any less painful for my own family? Hell no!!! The family that I hurt the most was my own and I have to live with that everyday.

With all of that having been said, yes, I am disgusted and devastated by my actions. I hate what I became, I hate that I didn't have the strength to make a different choice. I hate that the people whom I love the most in this world have to pay the sentence for my crime. So, who better to judge you?..... It takes one to know one, right? But, you know what, I sleep a lot better at night, now. Wanna know something, else? It was never a game or a sport for me.... people weren't stacked end-to-end like trophies.... that is what makes me different from you.

~EI


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, b&ll&cks! I knew this thread would get a bit heated.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Oh, b&ll&cks! I knew this thread would get a bit heated.


In this place, MM...would you think otherwise? Honestly?

Maybe over at Loveshack on the OM/OW area it'd be better. But that's just me. A simple BS's opinion.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I don't want to name call and get banned again but I just would like to say..I am Calvin's wife and now since we are reconcilled the OM is homeless due to the fact that Calvin made sure all of the OM's girlfriends and friends knew what was going on. See he got caught and nobody wants anything to do with him. He had the attitude that all women love him and want him. He told Calvin that he tells all of his female friends he loves them. This guy is now barely hanging on to his job (altho his checks get garnished big time because he owes money everywhere) He does not own anything. Not even a car because he used the company truck. He has nowhere to sleep. I guess he sleeps in his truck or at work. I'm just saying, this guy thought he would never get caught. Well I did tell my husband and now I bet he has alot of regrets having all these women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> In this place, MM...would you think otherwise? Honestly?
> 
> Maybe over at Loveshack on the OM/OW area it'd be better. But that's just me. A simple BS's opinion.


I could have started railing and shouting. Why? *Because my wife's lover was a serial cheater EXACTLY like The Bishop*.

So Dig... if anyone should have reacted badly, you'd think it would have been me, yes?

But it wasn't. Though I did trigger somewhat.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I did more than that to him but I can not elaborate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I can say MM that I did NOT trigger from his posting. Honestly, I didn't think you would react badly because you have somewhat a unique situation being a mad hatter...one who has been cheated on and who has cheated. I don't say that in a bad way, man. I say that because maybe part of you identifies, which again, is fine. I've always enjoyed your unique POV.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> I can say MM that I did NOT trigger from his posting. Honestly, I didn't think you would react badly because you have somewhat a unique situation being a mad hatter...one who has been cheated on and who has cheated. I don't say that in a bad way, man. I say that because maybe part of you identifies, which again, is fine. I've always enjoyed your unique POV.


I don't identify with the Bishop. At all.

I have to wonder if The Bishop ever deliberately humiliated one of his lover's husbands in front of their wife? 

My wife's OM did that to me. Ah, s**t! Now I am triggered. F**k this s**t!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Oh, b&ll&cks! I knew this thread would get a bit heated.


Youre right M&M but I feel no regret from him.
This isnt our thread its Bishops thread.
Bishop please explain more if you will.
Is this an addiction? Do you get off on the sex?
Conquest? Is there something more youre looking for? Are you not worried about your family?
What do you think about the other families you have left in the dust?
You dont know that some of these women confessed because of the guilt,I'm sure marriages and families were affected.
Why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I don't identify with the Bishop. At all.
> 
> I have to wonder if The Bishop ever deliberately humiliated one of his lover's husbands in front of their wife?
> 
> My wife's OM did that to me. Ah, s**t! Now I am triggered. F**k this s**t!


Sorry buddy.


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I don't identify with the Bishop. At all.
> 
> I have to wonder if The Bishop ever deliberately humiliated one of his lover's husbands in front of their wife?
> 
> My wife's OM did that to me. Ah, s**t! Now I am triggered. F**k this s**t!


MM -- take a deep breath and get some sleep.

It's 3:00am there --

Tomorrow will be a better day !!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Sorry buddy.


If I'd have seen The Bishop's words before my wife's affair could I have done something to stop it? I honestly don't know.:scratchhead:


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

calvin, I think you should read his first part thread so you will understand why you don't feel "regret". Detach, if you can, a little from yourself, put your scientific mask for a while. The bishop doesn't operate with the same internal tools people like you possess. Some people is not this way. Period. You will go nuts if you try to project the way you are wired on this. He explains it here:
Is it possible for a Serial Cheater/ Narcissist to change his stripes?
Warning, if you feel like triggering better don't read it.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Acabado said:


> calvin, I think you should read his first part thread so you will understand why you don't feel "regret". Detach, if you can, a little from yourself, put your scientific mask for a while. The bishop doesn't operate with the same internal tools people like you possess. Some people is not this way. Period. You will go nuts if you try to project the way you are wired on this. He explains it here:
> Is it possible for a Serial Cheater/ Narcissist to change his stripes?
> Warning, if you feel like triggering better don't read it.


Um...what?
I'll read the link but I really dont....come again....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jh52 said:


> MM -- take a deep breath and get some sleep.
> 
> It's 3:00am there --
> 
> Tomorrow will be a better day !!


Yes, it will.

Got a shopping trip planned, should be fun!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes I have read it." knee deep in pain and anguish" ..get help.People like him? Some people are good actors ans put on a front.
I dont hate Bishop,I dont like him.
I'm pretty good at reading people but only if I met them in person.I can get a few clues off of what people write.
He thinks highly of himself to a point.
Pride cometh before the fall.
I feel he needs some serious treatment.
He's hurting people,not physically but he still is hurting them.
In his thread he says he feels no remorse but then later he felt disgust.
He never took any relationship seriously,it was his way of downplaying hurting her and the Fam?
No.
Being a father was overwhelming? Join the club.
Being a father means I do whats right by my familiy.
Then the disclaimer "I am a known liar" ??????
Ok then.
Wasnt my fault,I loved being a father ,wanted to be the best dad I could but it was too much for me.
No sugar coating?
You need help Bishop,the one thing I like about this thread is that its good for a WS to read or someone who is thinking about cheating.
Too many excuses.
I'm done.Said my peace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

calvin said:


> Yes I have read it." knee deep in pain and anguish" ..get help.People like him? Some people are good actors ans put on a front.
> I dont hate Bishop,I dont like him.
> I'm pretty good at reading people but only if I met them in person.I can get a few clues off of what people write.
> He thinks highly of himself to a point.
> ...


Luckily, The Bishop is getting help. Hope it works out for him and his family.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I wonder if you trying to figure out why you do what you do and cant help it.
I dont know. Search for an expert counselor who can really help you.
Good luck,I mean that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hehasmyheart (Mar 11, 2010)

How did you hear of TAM? What led you here?


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## hehasmyheart (Mar 11, 2010)

So, you went to therapy to try and stop, and ended up sleeping with the therapist?


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## hehasmyheart (Mar 11, 2010)

You really need to stop because, sooner or later, everyone gets caught. Then, you could be writing here for different reasons.

I think you are writing about this because you desire to stop. Be grateful for your family, and think of them before playing with fire again.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> You know, it's always the comments that hit too close to home that evoke the biggest reaction. The leftover carnage that I referred to is the devastation in the lives of the spouses, children, families and friends in the wake of our betrayals. It is certainly not a character assessment of the betrayed. The only disrespect in this thread, I believe, comes from the one who would have the readers believe that he is offering a service for the betterment of mankind. And, my carnage, BTW, is sleeping, blissfully, on the sofa.
> 
> My repulsion towards you comes not from the way that you are sharing your story.... it is your story itself that repulses me. So, the difference between us is that I am not, never have been, nor ever will be a serial cheater. At the end of the day, there is no moral difference between my cheating and yours. We both cheated. I got caught. But, unlike you, I never professed to have been in a happy marriage prior to my affair. My marriage had been in a state of carnage long before my affair began. I didn't cheat for sport. I didn't go see my lover, come home, put on a happy face, pretend that all was well with the world and crawl into bed with my husband. My husband and I were living very separate lives, although we were living under the same roof, we were not having sex, sleeping together or even in the same room. And, I certainly didn't cheat with multiple partners, who I knew I wasn't in love with, without a care in the world for the well-being of their families. I cheated with one partner who I had known and had had a past relationship with before my marriage, who was not married and had no children living in his home. Do I think that makes my betrayal any less painful for my own family? Hell no!!! The family that I hurt the most was my own and I have to live with that everyday.
> 
> ...


So basically I came here and told you all honestly everything I have done, as bad as it was in detail, and since I haven't gotten what is coming to me, that justice has not been served. Then i must be here to validate myself and to gloat and to poach? We both made poor decisions and acted selfish, mine far more worse.... Yet, I and the board takes you by your word (a past liar) that your marriage was bad, that you never cheated before or will again, that it was never a game, that you are truly remorseful, not because you confessed because you got caught. I do believe you, certainly most on the board does to, but since as you said "it takes one to know one" (yet we are nothing alike).... I am being dishonest about why I am posting my story, I am gloating cause I have nothing better to do and I am here to poach hurt women. Basically if I came here with the same story, or decided to just tell you about one affair I had and that I got caught and I am so so sorry.... You and everyone else who looks down on me (look, rightfully so, I haven't once denied who I am, I am just fighting the charges that I am here to hurt you all worse and pick up some ladies why I am at it) would accept my story as I mean it to be.... TO SHOW the very ****ty side of cheating. 

I will be back tomorrow to continue answering all the questions, I am not purposely not answering them. I do feel bad this thread is opening up wounds to some and pissing people off because I haven't gotten mine yet, thus, justice hasn't been served.... I get that, and I do deserve it, I never said I didn't... Some of you have.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Sorry for the grammar and spelling errors... I am on a iPad.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I am not a psychologist (most of you probably knbow my opinion on counseing before I even started it) but I think I am begining to figure you out.

I think I see a big difference between wayward spouses. 
There are those that are trully sorry, and want to repent. 
There are those that want to straddle the fence and choose which lawn is greener (hate those people, just saying)
And then there are those that try to run off with their AP

But you are different. You are in a fourth category, of "I just had the opportunity, and took it." 

And I find it very interesting, because you show very little remorse. For your wife, your children, your family, everyone that would be affected by it. You may show worry, but little remorse. 

And I think I know why. 

You either: felt bad the first time, but couldn't stop, and overtime, the continuing affairs desensitized you to it
Or 
You are one of those people that have a psychological disorder to some degree. I would say most likely a lower form of anti-social. 

And I think I am starting to understand your reason for posting this. 

It wasn't to stir a riot. 
It wasn't to accomplish or point out other WS faults. 

It was to show people, why, some people can cheat, and not have problems. And to show we have people like that out there. 

And you want people to know that. 
And you are able to examine and anaylze your situation and feelings from the inside, and you are wanting to help people understand the WS that we can't. 

But hey I could be wrong.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> bishop, you aren't posting on this forum to help others. You came here to "help yourself." But, not really.... not to become a better man, not to atone for your transgressions in some small way, you came here to "help yourself" to the leftover carnage of hurting BS's, WS's and broken families. You may find a few, here, who are vulnerable to your sociopathy, but most of us see you as the very pathetic, empty, shell of a man that you really are. I don't find you to be charismatic, at all. I find you to be repulsive.
> 
> ~EI


Again, you're giving bishop too much credit for his affair. Just as you give your OM too much credit for yours. Whether you cheated once or a 100 times, it really doesn't matter( not talking in terms of whats good for reconciliation and whats not). So, adopting a holier than thou attitude when you yourself haven't been perfect is never the way to go about( This, btw is not an accusation, just an observation). Bishop, would most definitely not have had the opportunity to cheat if all the married women(or otherwise) did not want to cheat with him, just as your OM would not have had an opportunity if you had given him a firm no.

Bishop, you need to realize that some people are just not cut out for monogamy, and you are one of those. Nothing bad in it, just do your wife some kindness and cut her off. You'll have a better time dating around without having to keep it out of the public eye, but I guess the lure of all your affairs are the secrets.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Again, you're giving bishop too much credit for his affair. Just as you give your OM too much credit for yours.


Bjorn,

I really don't understand your comment. I'm not complaining about it, I just don't understand it. First thing, I'm not giving The bishop credit for anything. 

Second, if you've ever read any of my threads or B1's you would know that I have NEVER given the OM credit or blame for my affair.... Never. I was the one who was unfaithful to my husband and my family. In fact, I pursued the OM... he did not pursue me. He was the one saying "NO." Obviously, he was persuaded, otherwise. Credit and/or blame lies only with me.

Nor was I adopting a Holier than thou attitude.... I was simply stating my opinion... and my opinion stands unchanged. Having been a WS does not in any way exclude me from the privilege of having an opinion and stating it.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> You know, it's always the comments that hit too close to home that evoke the biggest reaction. The leftover carnage that I referred to is the devastation in the lives of the spouses, children, families and friends in the wake of our betrayals. It is certainly not a character assessment of the betrayed. The only disrespect in this thread, I believe, comes from the one who would have the readers believe that he is offering a service for the betterment of mankind. And, my carnage, BTW, is sleeping, blissfully, on the sofa.
> 
> My repulsion towards you comes not from the way that you are sharing your story.... it is your story itself that repulses me. So, the difference between us is that I am not, never have been, nor ever will be a serial cheater. At the end of the day, there is no moral difference between my cheating and yours. We both cheated. I got caught. But, unlike you, I never professed to have been in a happy marriage prior to my affair. My marriage had been in a state of carnage long before my affair began. I didn't cheat for sport. I didn't go see my lover, come home, put on a happy face, pretend that all was well with the world and crawl into bed with my husband. My husband and I were living very separate lives, although we were living under the same roof, we were not having sex, sleeping together or even in the same room. And, I certainly didn't cheat with multiple partners, who I knew I wasn't in love with, without a care in the world for the well-being of their families. I cheated with one partner who I had known and had had a past relationship with before my marriage, who was not married and had no children living in his home. Do I think that makes my betrayal any less painful for my own family? Hell no!!! The family that I hurt the most was my own and I have to live with that everyday.
> 
> ...


There, I hope you understand now.

I'm sorry to say that both of you are cheaters, but both of you gave different reasons for your cheating and that is the only difference I see. Again, Ei, please don't take offence.

EDIT: Also I'd like to add that the state of the marriage, is just an excuse. There are plenty of women in bad marriages that don't cheat and there also a number of women (and men) who don't put up with being in a bad marriage and make an honorable exit


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Just going to say this:

EI was knee deep in her affair. It was a hard affair. 
I would desribe it like taking a knife to the heart and twisting it. It will hurt. 

But EI is trying to make up for it. 

I will also give EI credit because from what I read from their relationshp before her affair, she had some reason. I am not saying she should have, or had a right to, but I understand it. 
But she has owned up to her mess. She realized what she did, and she tries to hekp her husband. She loves him, and all of us (or, well maybe just most of us) don't doubt her. So she can take some moral high ground. She has fessed up and owned her sh!t. 
And her husband loves her, even after everything she did. 

The Bishop however, hasn't. I don't even think he is sorry. He will only be sorry if he is caught, and is going to lose everything. 
And there is the big difference. He hasn't fessed up to it. 
EI stabbed her hubby in the heart and twisted. 
The Bishop has several knives all aimed at the heart of everyone in his family. He will completely destroy his family. 
Plus, Bishop hasn't told his wife. 
So will she still love him? For all the good and bad of him? Because she only knows half of him.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

Hey, guess what?

An attractive coworker was complaining about her husband to me today. Her and I are friends and joke and laugh together etc, and seem to enjoy eachothers conversation.

Guess what I did? 

I didnt work my way in, slyly put him down, nor manipulate her with compliments. Instead I kept the boundaries in place and never crossed that line. 

Do I get a thread in praise of not being a scumbag and crossing the line? Nope. 

Why people are all over this like it's some mystery, or assume he has some magnetic appeal to women, I don't get. 

He just takes advantage...nothing mysterious or praiseworthy about it..


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

As I said earllier, Bishop is not cut out for marriage but that doesn't make him repulsive or disgusting. And I never knew that there existed hard and soft affairs. Whether his wife found out that he had one hard affair or ten soft affairs the devastation is going to be just as much but Juicer, you're right about one thing, Bishop isn't sorry, or maybe he is I wouldn't know.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Yet, I and the board takes you by your word (a past liar) that your marriage was bad....


You don't have to take my word about my marriage being bad.... read my husband's words..... My husband is posting here on TAM, as well. He and I have shared our story at length. I clearly stated, you and I both share the "cheater badge." I've put mine away.... what about you?


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Juicer said:


> Just going to say this:
> 
> EI was knee deep in her affair. It was a hard affair.
> I would desribe it like taking a knife to the heart and twisting it. It will hurt.
> ...


_Thank you, Juicer, just.... thanks._


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## frootloop (Dec 20, 2010)

SomedayDig said:


> I can say MM that I did NOT trigger from his posting. Honestly, I didn't think you would react badly because you have somewhat a unique situation being a mad hatter...one who has been cheated on and who has cheated.


My ex-wife was a NPD and a serial cheater - I never cheated. While bishop's posting's trigger me, I still appreciate them - unlike a more serious NPD case, bishop has a shred of a conscience, and is willing to open up about his thoughts.

This is an unusual opportunity, as most NPD will never admit to being wrong, or say why they are doing these things.

For some of you its too soon, and you can't stand to hear it, perhaps you should find another thread that it doesn't pain you to read.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Probably the biggest untold truth in this is the one Bishop hasn't discovered yet, his wifes secret. I can guarantee that his wife knows more than he realizes, woman have that instinct, they know. His wife doesn't know anything tangible, nothing she can put her finger on, but she has that little tingle in her head saying 'what am I missing'. The really interesting part is this, if I had to make a bet on it, I would bet that his wife has a secret friend, a male confidant, someone she can talk to that he doesn't know about. I've seen this happen before with husbands who neglect their wives (bishop will say he doesn't neglect his wife, but he would be wrong, he's neglecting her emotionally, in a way that she perceives, but too subtle for him to realize it). 

Mrs Bishop has a secret. The odds are in favor of it. There's a man out there touching her heart in a way that Bishop never has, he never could, because he was never fully committed. Mrs Bishop may very well have her Robert Kincaid out there (Bridges of Mad1son County). And like the husband in that movie, he'll never know about it.

Bishop titled this cheaters will cheat.... Unless. The subtitle should be 'What Cheaters Don't Know'.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> You don't have to take my word about my marriage being bad.... read my husband's words..... My husband is posting here on TAM, as well. He and I have shared our story at length. I clearly stated, you and I both share the "cheater badge." I've put mine away.... what about you?


I do take you for your word. You did put you "cheater badge" away as did I. I know you don't and won't believe me, I know you think you have me pegged as someone who is validating my behavior and trying to pick up broken waywards. At this point, there is nothing I can say or do to convince you otherwise, and even if I did you will never admit it as, I am scum, and you are repulsed by me, thus I must of manipulated you to believe me like those other poor wayward women who aren't cleaver like you are. 

You stopped because you got caught, not because after 16 months (yeah I read your story) you decided to come clean. Thus you aren't really remorseful for cheating but for getting caught. See I can do it to.... Tell me why I shouldn't believe that, tell me why you weren't glad you cheated as it did accomplish changing your marriage from something broken to something worth saving. 

Stop judging me like you know me.... You don't. All you know is what I have told you. I hate who I am. I have stopped but it is a struggle, maybe everyone is right and that is because I never got caught, maybe I am just so ****ed up it doesn't matter caught or not, I am always going to struggle being a bastard.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Juicer said:


> Just going to say this:
> 
> EI was knee deep in her affair. It was a hard affair.
> I would desribe it like taking a knife to the heart and twisting it. It will hurt.
> ...


I am sorry juicer.... But for most of you I can't be sorry on my own, I must confess, I must be punished. Juicer you did pinpoint my biggest problem in all of this.... My wife as well as my kids, my parents, my in laws, most of my friends all know only half of me.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Probably the biggest untold truth in this is the one Bishop hasn't discovered yet, his wifes secret. I can guarantee that his wife knows more than he realizes, woman have that instinct, they know. His wife doesn't know anything tangible, nothing she can put her finger on, but she has that little tingle in her head saying 'what am I missing'. The really interesting part is this, if I had to make a bet on it, I would bet that his wife has a secret friend, a male confidant, someone she can talk to that he doesn't know about. I've seen this happen before with husbands who neglect their wives (bishop will say he doesn't neglect his wife, but he would be wrong, he's neglecting her emotionally, in a way that she perceives, but too subtle for him to realize it).
> 
> Mrs Bishop has a secret. The odds are in favor of it. There's a man out there touching her heart in a way that Bishop never has, he never could, because he was never fully committed. Mrs Bishop may very well have her Robert Kincaid out there (Bridges of Mad1son County). And like the husband in that movie, he'll never know about it.
> 
> Bishop titled this cheaters will cheat.... Unless. The subtitle should be 'What Cheaters Don't Know'.


Tony you hate me and everything about me, you want me to die a horrible death alone and spend eternity in hell. Everything about me is repulsive and you use your words as if they are truth, hoping thy hit home cause damn it I deserve it. Well, I agree I deserve it.. All I have done I deserve to happen to me. We are in agreement.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Look clearly for the ones that I am helping they aren't being helped enough, because I am hurting a lot more of you then not. I am letting this thread die. If I knew it would become like this I wouldn't of told my story, cause I had a feeling it would cause triggers, it is to real. I was hoping most would see the message and not the messenger, certainly I knew I would get a beating and deservingly so, but I didn't know how much hatred I would cause, and how much I opened old wounds. I am sorry.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Probably the biggest untold truth in this is the one Bishop hasn't discovered yet, his wifes secret. I can guarantee that his wife knows more than he realizes, woman have that instinct, they know. His wife doesn't know anything tangible, nothing she can put her finger on, but she has that little tingle in her head saying 'what am I missing'. The really interesting part is this, if I had to make a bet on it, I would bet that his wife has a secret friend, a male confidant, someone she can talk to that he doesn't know about. I've seen this happen before with husbands who neglect their wives (bishop will say he doesn't neglect his wife, but he would be wrong, he's neglecting her emotionally, in a way that she perceives, but too subtle for him to realize it).
> 
> Mrs Bishop has a secret. The odds are in favor of it. There's a man out there touching her heart in a way that Bishop never has, he never could, because he was never fully committed. Mrs Bishop may very well have her Robert Kincaid out there (Bridges of Mad1son County). And like the husband in that movie, he'll never know about it.
> 
> Bishop titled this cheaters will cheat.... Unless. The subtitle should be 'What Cheaters Don't Know'.


Don't make assumptions. For all you know the poor woman may be completely and utterly committed to her marriage. I don't really understand why people come to conclusions. Guilty unless proven to be innocent. Sigh


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Look clearly for the ones that I am helping they aren't being helped enough, because I am hurting a lot more of you then not. I am letting this thread die. If I knew it would become like this I wouldn't of told my story, cause I had a feeling it would cause triggers, it is to real. I was hoping most would see the message and not the messenger, certainly I knew I would get a beating and deservingly so, but I didn't know how much hatred I would cause, and how much I opened old wounds. I am sorry.


You don't have to be sorry for the people on here. if their wounds open up, that is their problem. They shouldn't be looking at such a thread if they fear triggering, let alone give advice.

But you have to be sorry for your wife. Tell her the truth, give her the freedom to choose to stay or go.


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## frozen (Mar 5, 2012)

The bishop said:


> You know what.... I feel so bad betraying someone so good, it probably would make me feel somewhat better. I have certainly put her on a pedestal and think she is all that is right with the world. To find out she isn't and just like me would at least allow me to confess fully without the very real possibility of losing her.


You have no idea how much pain you would be in. I tried so many times to tell my wife about my work wife. I came to believe the only way I could ever tell my beautiful wife was if she had an affair too. And of course I held her so high, as did she for so long, that I believed it never could happen.

Lo and behold after my 5 year was ending she got started. I caught her 3 Weeks after PA started but let me tell you the higher the pedestal you hold them on, the more pain you will feel


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> It's okay, Calvin. You're just too good of a man. I, on the other hand, saw through him on his very first thread. I'm not sure, exactly, what that says about me.... but, I do know that I am nothing like him. Never have been.... never will be.


You saw through him? Through what? I think in your case you are living in a glass house and throwing stones. And your pride is coming before your fall. I am sorry but you are no better. In fact you are worse! You changed ONLY because you were found out. No one caught the bishop out and MADE him change. He wasn't forced to. No-one put his arm behind his back and threatened him with the loss of all he held dear before he said ok ok I will change! He did it all through his own realisation and on his own impetus. You however..... He has done a million times better than you on that score.

This isn't the bishop's 1st thread or posts on here either! He has been here a while. I have 'known' him since he arrived and lurked on TAM. I asked him questions I wanted to know due to my man having manipulated me for 3 years, cheated on me for 1 and half. He does not manipulate me anymore. I don't allow him to, I see right through him. The bishop answered truthfully, genuinely, helpfully. Every advice giving post I have seen of the bishop, his advice is spot on. Every post I have seen has been placed to help a BS.

Is your high and mighty stance because he hasn't come out here gushing about how awful, how evil he is. That he is now going to do all he can to make it all better gush gush. 

This is really pissing me off. All the holier than thou attitudes, just because he isn't gushing. That is what I see anyway.

All you cross Waywards are probably just annoyed that he hasn't had to face all the consequences you did. In essence, he got away with it. You are just pissed off he never got found out and you did! Jealousy is NOT healthy! And the reason you want him to tell his wife is so he can taste the medicine you got. You are more upset than anything that he got away with it! You are not looking for his best interests as a person when advising to tell his wife. You just want him to suffer and his wife to leave. That is what a lot of you are coming across like. 

(FYI the bishop, I am in 2 minds regarding telling your wife. On the one hand you are in real danger of losing everything, your acts are immense, and your wife is in happy ignorance. On the other hand, I think you bringing it to her will mean an AWFUL LOT to her. Do not underestimate how massively this will go in your favour as opposed to her just finding out. And let's face it, that is always a possibility. If she stays, she will come to be a huge help in your wish and effort for change. Just her knowing, there to talk to, esp if you get urges and impulses, will help massively for your change. And as a previous poster said, the closeness it brings to a marriage, to share all, to be as one, to know everything about the other, no more secrets, no barriers or walls....all that will improve your marriage no end. The benefits are huge if you tell her, as are the consequences. Not telling? You deal with it alone, walls and barriers exist etc. I started erring on the side of not telling, now I err on telling. For you, for your marriage, and ultimately for her).

And the cross BS's, well, it is understandable, but hey, did you never do something bad and decide to do it no more? This man is NOT YOUR wayward! 

He has come here giving a factual account of all the bad things he's done. All his posts have been giving BS's great advice. He has used self derision. He has used phrases that make it clear he is NOT proud of his actions. He has not boasted, just fact. Describing a story. But hell, if your story involves bedding many women, it sounds like a gloat. It didn't sound that way to me. If it had I would be posting he's a prick and not bother returning to this thread.

IMO Empty, you are not like him because 
1. You slipped into an A. However your deeds are just as shi*tty because you didn't make one error and go 'ooops, I wasn't thinking there', you made a cold and calculated cake eating process that lasted 2 years. (forgive me if some of the facts here are wrong but I understand you had a 2 year affair)
2. You got found out. Thus you faced the pain you were causing. But you didn't get that, understand that, in the Affair! You never came to a realisation off your own back! - another reason why you are not like the bishop. Your H MADE you realise. That is weak! IMO. You had an A, 2 years, you never left BHusband, you ate your cake. YOU NEVER LEFT YOUR H. YOU ATE YOUR CAKE WHILE DELUDING YOUR MAN! I am sorry empty but your posts I have generally liked, right now though you are coming across as smug and self satisfying. Deluded. You don't deserve your H if you are only together due to you being caught. Not after the smugness I have read of you compared to him. 

You think you are immune to a repeat? A 2 year affair you had. 2 years of lies and deceit. You didn't leave your H. I find it shocking that that is your actions and yet you set yourself so far apart. I would say however, as he is now in this process of change having not been caught, I would set you both far apart too. You, immune? I wouldn't count on it.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Wow. This post has knocked the air out of me. For one, I AM NOT Here to "help myself" to anyone. To think or say otherwise is being disrespectful to those "leftovers". I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, let alone that you, a wayward who caused such carnage.
> 
> Can you please tell me what is the difference of our stories and how we shared them on here. The only difference I see is you got caught, and then decided it was wrong. Caused I never got caught I am validating myself. I am telling my story, I can't tell it any other way because I am telling it as it happened and what I was feeling at the time. It seems a lot of you can't handle that, so I must be gloating.
> 
> You lied, you betrayed, you hid.... So did I. So since I kept doing it and you got caught and was forced to stop, you can judge me and call me repulsive. Ahhh, you are disgusted by me, as you are yourself and cheating, cheaters in general... Good for your H as you all really have a chance at true R without you cheating again.


Haha I just seen your post right after Empty's. I couldn't resist either. Shocking. I am glad that I was spot on with my thoughts of it too. (Edit: I didn't actually read EI's post properly, scanned it, but your reply was just as my thinking was, and similar kinda stuff to my reply on another of her posts, I thought u were replying to same post for a moment! She is revealing a lot about her nature) 

Bishop, I hope you are not taking this derision to heart and can ignore. Know that these people are still in their own fog. They are still bitter. And some are still so ashamed/hurt, they cannot see past their own actions or situation. People and their situations and circumstances seem not to register. 

And they are really pissing me off now because they are ruining a really useful thread, put there for all the right reasons, bloody obvious too, and just tarring u with the 'You're a cheater so you must now die' brush! I know there is a lot of them, but just bloody ignore them. They all come out and pounce when there is a juicy story like this they can attack on. Like vultures some of them. Even as advice givers, the word cheat arrives, they put on their blinkers, and off they charge churning out the same words regardless of the situation. I would like to say more, and worse, but worry I may get banned.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Bishop, as a BS I find your writing interesting, I know you can only speak from your own experience, not all cheaters are the same, not all cheat for the same reasons......

I agree with Remains "(FYI the bishop, I am in 2 minds regarding telling your wife. On the one hand you are in real danger of losing everything, your acts are immense, and your wife is in happy ignorance. On the other hand, I think you bringing it to her will mean an AWFUL LOT to her. Do not underestimate how massively this will go in your favour as opposed to her just finding out. And let's face it, that is always a possibility. If she stays, she will come to be a huge help in your wish and effort for change. Just her knowing, there to talk to, esp if you get urges and impulses, will help massively for your change. And as a previous poster said, the closeness it brings to a marriage, to share all, to be as one, to know everything about the other, no more secrets, no barriers or walls....all that will improve your marriage no end. The benefits are huge if you tell her, as are the consequences. Not telling? You deal with it alone, walls and barriers exist etc. I started erring on the side of not telling, now I err on telling. For you, for your marriage, and ultimately for her)."

For your own sake, think about exposing yourself to your wife before another does. It will happen at some point. Unfortunately, these things come out when we least expect them to, and how much worse will it be if you have truly stopped your cheating, and your wife finds out anyway? At least if you tell her yourself, she will always know, even in her darkest moments that you came to her for no other reason than because you wanted no secrets, and ultimately wanted to change.

I wish you well, and hope you succeed in changing for yourself and your family.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

My ex h never stopped cheating. He can't. He's very proud that he "scores" with these women and disregards his current wife's feelings.

I'd never stay with a cheater. Once you cheat, I'm outta here very quickly. I don't have time for those games.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Look clearly for the ones that I am helping they aren't being helped enough, because I am hurting a lot more of you then not. I am letting this thread die. If I knew it would become like this I wouldn't of told my story, cause I had a feeling it would cause triggers, it is to real. I was hoping most would see the message and not the messenger, certainly I knew I would get a beating and deservingly so, but I didn't know how much hatred I would cause, and how much I opened old wounds. I am sorry.


I've re-read your initial post a few times now. Just to see if I had missed it...your point, that is. There are a few things that you wrote that I understand are helpful to BS's. You point out how one shouldn't allow a WS to get out of the fog on their own because it's too easy to fall back into the affair. Good point. However, the delivery - IMO - was too romanticized. Writing the details about how you did your deeds is what I think a lot of us don't care to read and see it as gloating and whatnot. Again...just my opinion.



Remains said:


> And the cross BS's, well, it is understandable, but hey, did you never do something bad and decide to do it no more? This man is NOT YOUR wayward!


I don't equate chewing tobacco and infidelity along the same lines. Maybe that's just me. Disgusting? Yes. I don't see Bishop as an embodiment of my wayward. I do however, in some way, see him as the predatory type that the xOM is. Someone who finally got caught and lost everything. Bishop will be lucky if he escapes what is much deserved.



Remains said:


> Know that these people are still in their own fog. They are still bitter. And some are still so ashamed/hurt, they cannot see past their own actions or situation. People and their situations and circumstances seem not to register.
> 
> *Funny how you can say that WE are in our own fog because we don't agree with you or Bishop. This is one of those odd things where one person is right and the masses are crazy. Who's in a fog?*
> 
> And they are really pissing me off now because they are ruining a really useful thread, put there for all the right reasons, bloody obvious too, and just tarring u with the 'You're a cheater so you must now die' brush! I know there is a lot of them, but just bloody ignore them. They all come out and pounce when there is a juicy story like this they can attack on. Like vultures some of them. Even as advice givers, the word cheat arrives, they put on their blinkers, and off they charge churning out the same words regardless of the situation. I would like to say more, and worse, but worry I may get banned.


Is it ruining a perfectly good thread when someone says they want to reconcile and many posters come in a say they should leave their wayward? Take a gander at some of the wayward's initial threads and you'll see that the ones who go into it and just "pounce" usually wind up getting banned for not being productive. I know I have responded in quite a few of their threads with my betrayed side of the story to let them see what it's like from my point of view. My words change with every situation since every one is different. There is NO one way as everyone's marriage has a unique set of lives involved. No one prescription. That'd be ludicrous.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

Bishop,

I am the BS, my wife is the "evil narcissist". I am not happy, my wife is living in her own hell too. Our kids are looking for some not so good experiences ahead. And you are here too. 

Books say, "narcissists are doomed, and you too when you are with them"

Where do we go from here ?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The back and forth here has been surprisingly well conducted.

You don't have to always like what someone has to say, and you are free to state as much.

Please continue to keep decorum, and keep personal attacks out of it.

We'll be checking in.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Remains said:


> You saw through him? Through what? I think in your case you are living in a glass house and throwing stones. And your pride is coming before your fall. I am sorry but you are no better. In fact you are worse! You changed ONLY because you were found out. No one caught the bishop out and MADE him change. He wasn't forced to. No-one put his arm behind his back and threatened him with the loss of all he held dear before he said ok ok I will change! He did it all through his own realisation and on his own impetus. You however..... He has done a million times better than you on that score.


Don't take this the wrong way Remains and I'm not attacking you, but your sympathy with him is very misplaced. 
EI was loyal to her husband for the 30 years of their marriage. It took half a decade of constant sexual rejection and a complete breakdown of any meaningful relationship between them for her to slip into an affair. While it's not a excuse, it's certainly a hell of a lot better than Bishop. He's cheated on every single woman he's been with for no apparent reason. He has a hand in destroying numerous relationships all for the sake of ego gratification. He's a serial cheater and an unrepentant one at that. He has absolutely no remorse for his actions, maybe slight "regret" (if that). 

Bishop hasn't changed unless I'm missing something here. What has changed exactly? that he's come to terms with what a POS he is? I don't call that change, I call it a comforting acknowledgement that he's not a sociopath. 

What does this realisation change anyway? does it mend the hearts of the countless BSs who've had their lives ruined? There are just people like that in the world. I suppose it's their purpose in life to hurt others.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Spoke too soon ...


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> EXTREME counseling. I am with an extreme narcissist also. He hid it well though for 25 years - I've been with him forever - he is my life. He did destroy me, I'm trying, with therapy and group help, to pick up the pieces...I could never do it alone...Narcissists will kill you without help. But the difference with Bishops wife is that she doesn't know and I DO pray she never finds out, after all Bishop is changing on his own.


I share your experience. There were times (mostly really) that she made me feel like we were connected forever. I had been cared and loved. I also enjoyed to have someone in my life that I feel the same back. 

I have been with her for 22 years. I've been feeling like we were about to hit our fifties soon and the rest together. Then last year It all started falling in to pieces. 

She revealed that, actually I made her to admit that, she has been a serial cheater. She kind of tried to rug sweep first and then she showed her true colors and let me know my choices, which are "suck it up or get out" . We are at the "get out" stage now.

Finding a good councellor and a patient who wants to benefit from a good councelling..... My wife and her psychiatrist might be far from that. 

I feel like if I stick around, this drama will continue forever. I can't go away when my 5 year old boy asking me to come back before it is dark.

What makes a narcissist to have some sense ? Now it is beyond of banging some coworker behind doors.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SweetAndSour said:


> Bishop,
> 
> I am the BS, my wife is the "evil narcissist". I am not happy, my wife is living in her own hell too. Our kids are looking for some not so good experiences ahead. And you are here too.
> 
> ...


Yeah... but what if the book was written by someone who is not competent? Just because someone has strings of letters after their name and has published a book doesn't mean they are wise or right in their conclusions. They might be, but they might not be.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Spoke too soon ...


Just curious, where did complexity cross the line that hadn't been crossed before?


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Don't take this the wrong way Remains and I'm not attacking you, but your sympathy with him is very misplaced.
> EI was loyal to her husband for the 30 years of their marriage. It took half a decade of constant sexual rejection and a complete breakdown of any meaningful relationship between them for her to slip into an affair. While it's not a excuse, it's certainly a hell of a lot better than Bishop. He's cheated on every single woman he's been with for no apparent reason. He has a hand in destroying numerous relationships all for the sake of ego gratification. He's a serial cheater and an unrepentant one at that. He has absolutely no remorse for his actions, maybe slight "regret" (if that).
> 
> Bishop hasn't changed unless I'm missing something here. What has changed exactly? that he's come to terms with what a POS he is? I don't call that change, I call it a comforting acknowledgement that he's not a sociopath.
> ...





Deejo said:


> Spoke too soon ...





SadandAngry said:


> Just curious, where did complexity cross the line that hadn't been crossed before?



*Complexity, I am so, so, so, sorry. I can't believe that you had to take a bullet for this. Please accept my sincerest apologies.*

I will not be making any additional comments on this thread. But, by no means take that as me agreeing with any of the comments that have been made, or likely will be made, since my last post. There are simply some things not worth getting banned over.... this is one of them.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I imagine it might be around here...



Complexity said:


> Bishop hasn't changed unless I'm missing something here. What has changed exactly? that he's come to terms with what a POS he is? I don't call that change, I call it a comforting acknowledgement that he's not a sociopath.
> 
> What does this realisation change anyway? does it mend the hearts of the countless BSs who've had their lives ruined? There are just people like that in the world. I suppose it's their purpose in life to hurt others.


Hope it wasn't permanent. 


Deejo, your profile pic makes me laugh everytime I see it. One of my favorite movies.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Tony you hate me and everything about me, you want me to die a horrible death alone and spend eternity in hell. Everything about me is repulsive and you use your words as if they are truth, hoping thy hit home cause damn it I deserve it. Well, I agree I deserve it.. All I have done I deserve to happen to me. We are in agreement.


Slow down Bishop, you're losing track of who said what. I'll clarify my position, stated and yet to be stated:

1. I don't hate you, I don't FEEL anything for you, you're not unique to me, I know people who have conducted their lives exactly the way you have.

2. I personally never said I wanted you to die a horrible death, I stated, "You're enjoying the freedom of a modern society. If you were doing this 200 years ago decent men would have tarred and feathered you and threw you out of the community, or possibly even hung you. Now you get to be a narcissist; I suppose that's better than being dead... for you." I was pointing out what society would do to you in a different era if your activities were exposed. And I never said you should spend eternity in hell; I don't believe in hell.

3. I'm not repulsed by you, I can even go as far as to say your behavior doesn't repulse me, it is what it is, I don't agree with it but I'm not repulsed. Bishop, you miss my point, it isn't that I condemn you and your behavior, it is that I firmly believe that you are taking pleasure in the telling of your experiences, consciously or not, there is an overt tone to the stories that reveal pleasure in the retelling of the details. A person can warn others of what to look for without reliving each actual event; especially when you know the people receiving the information were traumatized at some point in their life by relatively similar behavior (emphasis on the word relatively). This, to me, was all confirmed when you created a new post to continue telling your story; you needed (consciously or not) for it to be seen (emphasis on the word needed).

You say I "use my words as if they are true, hoping they will hit home", but what you miss is that, I, like you, may know something about the behavior of women, I, like you, can make judgement calls, and, believe it or not, I, like you, am pretty good at tuning into a women's thoughts and desires when I interact with them (a lot of men can do this if they apply themselves, the difference is how they choose to use that ability). So, when I say Mrs Bishop has a secret, I'm deducing that based on countless life experiences of my own, much the way you deduce what woman is vulnerable, I can deduce how many women will behave under certain circumstances; I'm not necessarily always right, but I'm pretty good.

You said...
_"When I was 24, I met my wife. I instantly was attracted to her and she made me chase her just a bit cause she is a good girl who really is the opposite of me in every way, she thinks of others before herself and although incredibly stunning, doesn't know how to flirt and isn't aware when someone is flirting with her."_​Do you not think other men see the same thing in your wife? These are highly attractive traits that draw in motivated men, it drew you in, right? When I was younger, in my bad days, I was highly attracted to demure girls, slightly shy, not flirty. You underestimate other men who think exactly like you, if your wife is as attractive as you say, and especially if she's a "good girl" as you say, then my guess, based solely on my life experiences, is that she has a secret. I believe, in the larger scheme of things, that the player, who is over confident and sure in his game, ultimately, given the right conditions, will be played, and will be oblivious to it because he is too focused on his own game.

"Incredibly stunning" women, especially the quiet ones, who are with a man who isn't 100% into them, do not sit still, they know the difference in genuine affection and pseudo affection (I don't think you will be able to distinguish the two), they share their heart with someone eventually, not for malicious reasons, but for very innocent reasons initially and all it takes is one predatorial male to begin the seduction.


And one last note. I actually fall on the side of not revealing your infidelity to your wife, you can't, not if you want to stay married, it is way too extensive, there is no way your marriage would survive such a revelation.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I would like to say something about your kids, or anyone's kids from a divorce home:

A cheater for a parent does not mean a child will grow up to be a cheater. 

My dad cheated on my mom twice. 
Did that mean I would cheat on my wife? NO! I felt the devastation it brought, and vowed to never subject someone to that pain. Even after experiencing it a second time. 

I think sometimes, that when the divorce really hits the children, it makes them a better person. Is this to say it is a good thing to do so they have the knoweledge of how much it hurts? NO! But it may help them realize why this is so hard and painful, and they will hopefully vow to never hurt someone like that. Because they never want someone to relive that pain.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Spoke too soon ...


Yours, my friend, is a job I don't envy.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Yours, my friend, is a job I don't envy.


I have done it. And it sucks. Lots of people think they can do it better.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Don't take this the wrong way Remains and I'm not attacking you, but your sympathy with him is very misplaced.
> EI was loyal to her husband for the 30 years of their marriage. It took half a decade of constant sexual rejection and a complete breakdown of any meaningful relationship between them for her to slip into an affair. While it's not a excuse, it's certainly a hell of a lot better than Bishop. He's cheated on every single woman he's been with for no apparent reason. He has a hand in destroying numerous relationships all for the sake of ego gratification. He's a serial cheater and an unrepentant one at that. He has absolutely no remorse for his actions, maybe slight "regret" (if that).
> 
> Bishop hasn't changed unless I'm missing something here. What has changed exactly? that he's come to terms with what a POS he is? I don't call that change, I call it a comforting acknowledgement that he's not a sociopath.
> ...


Complexity, I don't take it the wrong way at all. I am always open to criticism and happy to admit I am wrong.

And yes, what you point out is a situation I was not aware of. I had read some of EI's posts, but not her story. So yes, you are completely correct, I agree with most of your post, and it sounds like an understandable affair IMO and a set of circumstances that were bound to happen at some point. As I have said before, I think we are all capable to varying degrees depending on circumstances and situation....and as someone else has pointed out, to different thresholds of restraint. 

So I apologise EI for making assumptions, but I do think your total annihilation of bishop is unhelpful, and also slightly misplaced, but almost understandable.

Where I disagree Complexity is I think for someone, anyone, to change a behaviour trait is extremely difficult, if not almost impossible. But for him to try is good! It is a start. And doesn't need completely assassinating for that. All we can do is try to be better people. Trying is the key! But trying hard, with all you have. I hope the bishop is doing that. It seems he is well on the way...IMO anyway. 

Also, is it possible to have real remorse if you are not fixing the hurt? And as his wife doesn't know, maybe all he can have at this stage is regret? I don't know. 

Edit: I have been trying to write this all day but haven't been able to post it.

Deejo, why is complexity banned? 

Edit: I just realised...I am so used to hearing the derision of the bishop I completely blanked it in the post! Duh!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I have also been wanting to write this all day, but haven't found the time. 

The bishop, I don't want you to take the annihilation of you as a standard here. What seems to be a standard is the annihilation of ANYONE the moment a cheat or nearly cheat is mentioned. The big size 12 boots come out and stamp away. This has also been the case where people have come here for advice and guidance, having been cheated on, and the big boots come out and stamp over and scare them away too. 

To illustrate the point, a post comes to mind. A man was here for advice, it was obvious his wife was a total wh*re, he was realising that fact, and needed help. He seemed a truly good and decent man. But, he made the mistake of mentioning a near miss of full blown EA. He pulled himself out. Because of that mention, all his other problems were suddenly ignored by some, and suddenly, a faithful man was tarred with the cheater brush. He was nearly scared away. It was a sorry sight to see.

Read it. Only the first 2-3 pages are necessary.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/54817-well-im-complete-idiot.html

Edit: I remember this thread being worse than what it is...I have just gone back and read it. There were just a couple of posts on the 1st page (I think) that criticised him in a total unnecessary manner. I guess I just remember the shock. It was strong. I could not believe that a good man was being criticised in such a way. but I guess it still illustrates my point. Some people just grab the stick and run with it regardless. Some people don't see the wood for the trees. Some people are just plain negative and blinkered.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I am still here. I just been busy and will try to reply later on.... I am perfectly ok with all the comments directed to me with the exception of saying I am here to hunt for broken waywards. But even with that being said, I really don't want anyone to be banned because my thread. I should be hated and I understand that too. I just seemed that some of you really think I came here to gloat and to relive my "conquests", thus to hurt BS's purposely, and I would rather of just killed the thread completely then have anyone hurt because of that. At my worst, I am not sadistic to the point to come to a site, and purposely hurt people by rubbing salt in their wounds. 

I told my story with the intention of what I was thinking, at the time, also pointing out that since their wasn't any consequences to my actions that it was possible to reconnect at anytime, I do believe that. But not in the intention that some of you think, but as a warning, to make sure you kill of the affair without letting the WS control "R". 
I probably should of either never started this thread, or as Tony mentioned, brought up warnings without reliving the events. I did do that on purpose as a way to show the mindset of a cheater in the middle of it, but it was insensitive and I apologize for that.

I am all for a heated discussion and questioning ones intentions.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Well,I guess I do give you some kudos for sticking around and taking some crap.
I dont feel youre bragging.
What about the families of your AP?
I would think that a couple of the WS's guilt got the best of them and they came clean.
Even if that did'nt happen the BS knows something is wrong and a lot of damage has been done.
Is'nt what those famlies have gone through or still going through enough of a concequense for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I am still here. I just been busy and will try to reply later on.... I am perfectly ok with all the comments directed to me with the exception of saying I am here to hunt for broken waywards. But even with that being said, I really don't want anyone to be banned because my thread. I should be hated and I understand that too. I just seemed that some of you really think I came here to gloat and to relive my "conquests", thus to hurt BS's purposely, and I would rather of just killed the thread completely then have anyone hurt because of that. At my worst, I am not sadistic to the point to come to a site, and purposely hurt people by rubbing salt in their wounds.
> 
> I told my story with the intention of what I was thinking, at the time, also pointing out that since their wasn't any consequences to my actions that it was possible to reconnect at anytime, I do believe that. But not in the intention that some of you think, but as a warning, to make sure you kill of the affair without letting the WS control "R".
> I probably should of either never started this thread, or as Tony mentioned, brought up warnings without reliving the events. I did do that on purpose as a way to show the mindset of a cheater in the middle of it, but it was insensitive and I apologize for that.
> ...


You should have started this thread! It comes across exactly as it was intended.

Warnings without reliving....blah! We are all fully aware of the warnings! Except for the newcomers. What we are NOT aware of is your mindset. The 'why's'. But some weren't interested in the why's and couldn't stay away due to the desire to bash you.

You WERE NOT insensitive. Absolutely not! Read that thread I posted. THAT is insensitive!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

calvin said:


> Is'nt what those famlies have gone through or still going through enough of a concequense for you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, absolutely not, because it doesn't affect him if he doesn't think about it. Even if he thinks about it, it only affects him as much as he wants it to.

You as a BS have a kind of parallel. You are in R, so you can get angry and upset with your WS a bit, but at some point, if you want it to work, you have to relent, and accept her back. You have to forgive her, because she is intertwined deeply in your life. The OM is another story. You have little restriction there, you can hate that POSOM just as much as you want, because he isn't involved in your life. There's no need to forgive if you don't want to. You can torment him even, like you do Calvin. As long as the hate doesn't bleed over to your wife, or upset your equilibrium in life too much. you can have at it for as long ad it suits you. The consequences to him mean next to nothing to you in practical terms.

I'm not saying this is how it necessarily should be, or if it is a healthy way to go about things in either sort of case, but it can certainly work for a period of time, years even.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> No, absolutely not, because it doesn't affect him if he doesn't think about it. Even if he thinks about it, it only affects him as much as he wants it to.
> 
> You as a BS have a kind of parallel. You are in R, so you can get angry and upset with your WS a bit, but at some point, if you want it to work, you have to relent, and accept her back. You have to forgive her, because she is intertwined deeply in your life. The OM is another story. You have little restriction there, you can hate that POSOM just as much as you want, because he isn't involved in your life. There's no need to forgive if you don't want to. You can torment him even, like you do Calvin. As long as the hate doesn't bleed over to your wife, or upset your equilibrium in life too much. you can have at it for as long ad it suits you. The consequences to him mean next to nothing to you in practical terms.
> 
> I'm not saying this is how it necessarily should be, or if it is a healthy way to go about things in either sort of case, but it can certainly work for a period of time, years even.


No,he taunted me with phone calls for months,he did insert himself into my life.
Thats one reason he is homeless now.
Yes a WS should never make the choice to cheat.
A AP knows better than to the invite into a married persons life.Its wrong both ways,plain and simple.
We all have the ablitity to walk away.
Getting what you want when you want it and working on it and knowing others can be caught in the crossfire is selfish and careless.
In my case the AP kept threatening to come to the house.He's sorry now.
Not that Bishop did that but he knows others can be hurt and to not care about innocents being put in harms way is wrong,just so you can have what you want.
I appreciate his thread,its a good look into the mindset of someone who puts their wants above others needs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Bishop did make thread here that I hope anyone thinking of cheating will read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Headspin said:


> so complexity was banned for what then!?
> 
> Have I missed that - has his shocking post been removed ?
> 
> What did he do?


The offending post is one that I quoted at 10.05pm yesterday.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

I don't doubt he's a valuable member...I just don't see why this is newsworthy. 

It's like saying the spoiled kid sitting next to the cookie jar stole a cookie. 

...is that really news? 

This thread:

Op: yeah, I stole the cookie..don't feel remorse or anything..
Posters: Wow! You feel none at all? Can you explain that?
Op: nope, I just wanted it...never got caught either..

The annoying part is, rather than calling it for what it is (being completely selfish, manipulative), those traits are being dressed up and turned into something worthy of an intelligent discussion. 

Whats to gain? Being told that cheaters want to cheat?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

NickCampbell said:


> I don't doubt he's a valuable member...I just don't see why this is newsworthy.
> 
> It's like saying the spoiled kid sitting next to the cookie jar stole a cookie.
> 
> ...


And then get defended. /baffling
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

calvin said:


> No,he taunted me with phone calls for months,he did insert himself into my life.
> Thats one reason he is homeless now.
> Yes a WS should never make the choice to cheat.
> A AP knows better than to the invite into a married persons life.Its wrong both ways,plain and simple.
> ...


Yes, any affair partner is inserting themselves into your life. I'd go much farther and say they are violating your life in fact. My point was, aside from the affair, in many cases the AP is not involved in your life (unless it's one of those horrible cases where the AP is close to the family), so you can function fairly normally while holding a big grudge against them. That's not the same as your spouse, who is just as responsible for the affair. You can't hold the grudge against your spouse if you're trying to R.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> Yes, any affair partner is inserting themselves into your life. I'd go much farther and say they are violating your life in fact. My point was, aside from the affair, in many cases the AP is not involved in your life (unless it's one of those horrible cases where the AP is close to the family), so you can function fairly normally while holding a big grudge against them. That's not the same as your spouse, who is just as responsible for the affair. You can't hold the grudge against your spouse if you're trying to R.


Holding a grudge is natural for awhile.
When your WS is showing tons of remorse and really working on the marriage and doing every thing they can to make it right you have to let it go.
I keep on trying to put myself in her shoes,I know I'd want a chance to prove how sorry I am and make amends
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

What a thread. I'd like to add my $0.02. First- I could care less what Bishop's motivation is. I believe he is who he says and he is telling the truth. His goal here (if he has one) is irrelevent to me. I am here to learn, and his POV is unique. For that I am thankful. I have learned a few things from his posts so to you Bishop, I say please stay and keep posting your thoughts.

My goal here is not to fix anyone. I am willing to offer advice from lessons I have learned, from others or my own failings, but ultimately I am here to help myself deal with my wife's infidelity.

Bishop's POV certainly adds to the community. Take it for what it is. No need to judge him, that is not our place.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

calvin said:


> Holding a grudge is natural for awhile.
> When your WS is showing tons of remorse and really working on the marriage and doing every thing they can to make it right you have to let it go.
> I keep on trying to put myself in her shoes,I know I'd want a chance to prove how sorry I am and make amends
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How can you know their 'tons of remorse' is true, they are a cheater and a liar?

How do you know' they are doing everything they can to make it right' so that you can eventually let it go?

It's the hardest thing giving your WS a chance to prove how sorry they are' when it's hard to believe anything they say.

I feel my H is not who I thought he was......simple!


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Well he knows I'm not lying because I am allowing him to see everything I do. I'm willing to let him snoop..hell I want him to. I also want a lie detector. I am showing remore by genuinely being repulsed by my prior actions, I do not know how to fake remorse...well I do hide in the bathroom when I cry sometimes but that is because I get very emotional about how I've hurt him. Why do I hide sometimes? He is upset enough and shouldn't have to comfort me all the time for my own stupidity. So he trusts me but I know he would Never give me another chance if I were do do anything like that again. That's what reconcilliation is all about. I am very grateful for this chance. Also I have made many changes in myself in other ways. It's never too late to change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

gemjo said:


> How can you know their 'tons of remorse' is true, they are a cheater and a liar?
> 
> How do you know' they are doing everything they can to make it right' so that you can eventually let it go?
> 
> ...


Because I see it every day,it was an EA with old hs bf,yes they even met up a few times in public.
She learned he had the same issues as me but 20 times worse,when I say it was out of character for my wife,I mean it.
Believe it or not some people do make a bad stupid choice and see the damage they cause and work their ass off to make sure it never happends again,my wife CSS has worked her but off on us.
She knows what she did.Its hard for me,very hard almost eight months out but I know I'm doing the right thing here....I could of had custody,the house and more but she showed me she deserved this one chance and I'm giving it to her.
If your WS is not doing all they can then I'm sorry for you.
Some not the majority deserve a chance to prove themselves,I'm sorry your H is not one of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Can I ask? I'm sorry I'm not familiar with your story.....what kind of affair did you have? EA, PA or ONS or multiple?

You come across as very genuine and doing everything you can to be transparent, as is my H.

But for me, my H just doesn't seem genuine enough.

I'm not sure what I should be expecting at this time, but I feel so dissapointed and let down......not sure anything he says or does will be enough to ultimately move forward to a full R.

This is how I feel today.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Honestly you can go either way with a AP. There is always going to be some minor fault for the AP. Especially if they are the one pursusing the WS. The FACT is that it shouldn't matter how many men throw themselves at your spouse. The WS should either not allow the potential men the opportunity to tempt them or should keep things within a safe set of boundaries. I mean I don't understand how hard it is to keep women at a distance. I have had women come on to me. I always kept women at a distance. I might listen to a few personal stories or talk about how crazy my kids are. But I don't hand out my phone number. I don't get emotionally attached. I don't put myself in situations that could in any way compromise my marriage directly or indirectly. 

AP are snakes they are looking for opportunity. IF they have one they will pounce. But, again who has to give the AP the opportunity the WS. get mad at the AP all you want but everything falls on the WS. Everything except rape of course. If you really connect the dots they all end up pointing one direction.

Neglectful spouse excuse, should have tried to get into counciling with BS instead of confiding to member of the opposite sex

Needed more excitement in the marriage. Should have tried roleplaying or attempted to see what BS would have been willing to experiment with. Rather than opening up and having sexual conversations with members of the opposite sex.

He made me feel like I did when you and i first dated. Should have opened up to BS about wanting to reconnect. Instead of opening up to member of the opposite sex and exploring a new relationship.

Losing my parent/sibling just put me in a bad place. Should have turned to BS for support or close friends of the same sex. Should not be turning to a member of the opposite sex you don't know that well for support. 

I really have tried to create a scenario where the AP is the root of the problem and there is just not one short of forced rape. But in some scenarios the Victim should have not been in a position to be taken advantage of. IE going out and taking drinks from someone you don't know. Getting into a car with a guy you have only really known for a short time but have "connected". 
I don't condone rape nor do I think that the victim is stupid. I think that certain scenarios just should be avoided and affair fog can warp those scenarios a bit. 

I maybe wrong but tell me one scenario, not involving rape, where the AP is the problem and not a flawed choice of the WS?


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I pursued the OM. I looked him up on facebook. It is my fault. It was an EA. I didn't get physical. It was a 3 month EA. Saw him only a few times for about 10 min but we told eachother we love eachother. It was definately wrong. I had all the excuses just like any other WS. I blamed hubby and I was very wrong for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

In my mind I convinced myself that my husband didn't love me and we didn't get along, we would fight. I felt at my wits end with him. I should have went thru with all the other choices but I took the wrong one. Yes there is seperation, divorce and MC. I decided I wanted a divorce and started an EA. I am so thankful that we are now fulfilling each other's needs and communicating and connecting the way we should have all along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

gemjo said:


> Can I ask? I'm sorry I'm not familiar with your story.....what kind of affair did you have? EA, PA or ONS or multiple?
> 
> You come across as very genuine and doing everything you can to be transparent, as is my H.
> 
> ...


Because you are married to him I think you will just feel it if he is being genuine. The hugs, kisses, the look in their eyes, you should be able to feel it. I might be wrong but that's my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Well bad,my wife did try to break it off a few times,she knew it was wrong.I swear to God afeter I kicked her out for a week I got no TT at all and she immediately saw the dumb crap she did.
Her ap kept fishing,I told him to knock it off then the phone calls from him went on for months,how I owed him money for her abortion,how he fvcked her all over my house( he couldnt decribe the inside of my house),believe me she ran as fast as she could from him,wrote the letter,we went to the cops over the calls...he wouldnt stop.Threats to come to my house and rape my wife and kick my ass.
Funney,the three times I saw him he ran like hell.
Then he stated talking about going to the cops to protect him from me.
Now he's homeless and broke,He should have walked away but he didnt.
Rape? Maybe mind raped her and that is why I hunted him down,he got off to doing it to other families,he was a preditor who searched out the weak,bet he never does this to another famliy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Sorry I haven't answered any questions... this thread is growing rapidly and I can't keep up. I didn't ask for Complexity to get banned and if the mods are reading this, I hope he can be reinstated. I'm not sure when I will get a chance to catch up, but will.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Sorry I haven't answered any questions... this thread is growing rapidly and I can't keep up. I didn't ask for Complexity to get banned and if the mods are reading this, I hope he can be reinstated. I'm not sure when I will get a chance to catch up, but will.


I'm glad you did this,I really am.I dont respect you and it seems you have not gotten around to any of my post but thats ok.
I'll give you a little respect for doing this thread,it might really help some people.
I really hope you get help and stop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

calvin said:


> I'm glad you did this,I really am.I dont respect you and it seems you have not gotten around to any of my post but thats ok.
> I'll give you a little respect for doing this thread,it might really help some people.
> I really hope you get help and stop.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I apologize for not answering, I will make a point to read your posts and answer the best I can.... I am at work so it will have to be later... the thread took a life of its own and I can't keep up. I did notice how you blew up your W affair up and hunted down the OM. I am a lot of things, but that OM is crazy. Sorry both of you had to deal with that. Stories like your opens my eyes to the damage one cause as a OM. That was one of the reasons I came here initially, I lurked for a while just to see the aftermath of an A. I knew the damage one can cause as an OM, but I never knew what it all entails.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Its good to hear you say that,its a start and yes the OM was an azzhole and a actor


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I apologize for not answering, I will make a point to read your posts and answer the best I can.... I am at work so it will have to be later... the thread took a life of its own and I can't keep up. I did notice how you blew up your W affair up and hunted down the OM. I am a lot of things, but that OM is crazy. Sorry both of you had to deal with that. Stories like your opens my eyes to the damage one cause as a OM. That was one of the reasons I came here initially, I lurked for a while just to see the aftermath of an A. I knew the damage one can cause as an OM, but I never knew what it all entails.


Even what you read here, it's just scratching the surface. The damage reaches into every corner of your life, and pops up in unexpected ways.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

the jackass called my cell phone on valentines day. I had a feeling it was him (had him removed and thought weeks later he did the same since I told him to) so I didn't pick up.. voicemail was background noice as if he buttdailed me. I texted Calvin immediately and gave him the number..the jac,kass kept texting my husband the entire day saying he call call whoever he wants! So much bullcrap he pulled. Why didn't he apologize and leave us alone? We block his number and now he calls him with a restricted number. He doesn't call me at least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

He wont be no more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I apologize for not answering, I will make a point to read your posts and answer the best I can.... I am at work so it will have to be later... the thread took a life of its own and I can't keep up. I did notice how you blew up your W affair up and hunted down the OM. I am a lot of things, but that OM is crazy. Sorry both of you had to deal with that. Stories like your opens my eyes to the damage one cause as a OM. That was one of the reasons I came here initially, I lurked for a while just to see the aftermath of an A. I knew the damage one can cause as an OM, but I never knew what it all entails.


I want my Wayward to read this thread. He asked what forum I was on the other week, he wanted to read some as it had helped me so much and he thought it might help him too, but I am not ready to let him in just yet. This is my place of safety and refuge, this has been my education and solace against his behaviour since I came here 8 months after DD. Being here has helped me enormously, to see through his gaslighting, his abuse, personal attacks, and lies. I thought he was right, there was something wrong with me! Being here has helped me regain my sanity and confidence. And now that I have given up on us, he is finally prepared to do all that is necessary to fix us. He is giving me solid actions to progress. 

I know I am a fool for even letting him back in to my life, but, once I feel confident in his intentions, and if I do actually want to give it another go, I don't know yet, would I be a fool to bring him here?

We have been mostly split since end of August, out of the time since then, of which we get to spend half of it together due to childcare commitments (we both had children when we met, he has his daughter 50/50), we have probably been together about 6 times. That is why he has now come down from his position of attack and defence, the TT came out, and he is prepared to put in some hard work at last....I am prepared to put in no hard work until I see him doing some proper lifting. I have put in all since May last year and now I am done. As soon as this becomes hard for me, I am out. Therefore, here I am, wondering if this forum, this thread and others, would be useful in our situation. 

I guess I should start my own thread to ask this, but I am not going to. I think this post is most appropriate here. I would like your opinions from here.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Hi Remains

I gave my H access to this forum a few weeks ago.....he reads it and occasionally posts. I think it has helped us, but I know what you mean about it being your haven.

If you want him to see some of the threads but not have full access why not print relevant things out for him?

Only you know if you want him here reading your heart and soul, but I personally got to the point where I just thought, I might let him see what he has done to me from another vantage point, and also what other posters think about this 'CWI' board and hope he might share some of himself too...

I wish he would share more though....he isn't one for talking about emotional things, even though he is very loving....so its great for me if I see him open up.

Hope this helps in some small way x


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I asked my wife if she read this stuff, because she knoes I'm on here. She says she looked at it a bit when I started, but it seemed pretty repetitive, and not what she needed at the time. She wondered if maybe now she should come back and have another look. I said nope! She's been pretty down for a while, not feeling too hopeful, trying to deal with her stuff, but not feeling like she can say a lot, because she brought it on herself. That's true. but it isn't healthy or helpful. It is repetetive, but there are the absolute gems occasionally where someone really strikes the right chord. Those great ones right now are about the damage the infidelity causes, and I just don't feel the need to kick her while she's down.


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## TheCrunch (Sep 3, 2012)

Remains said:


> Being here has helped me enormously, to see through his gaslighting, his abuse, personal attacks, and lies. I thought he was right, there was something wrong with me! Being here has helped me regain my sanity and confidence.


Gaslighting is an insidious form of emotional abuse - I think this link says it all!

Gaslighting Is Emotional Abuse- Infidelity!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

TheCrunch said:


> Gaslighting is an insidious form of emotional abuse - I think this link says it all!
> 
> Gaslighting Is Emotional Abuse- Infidelity!


I absolutely agree. It is a tormenting and unbelievably torturous form of mental abuse. It crumbles the self, makes you doubt your own self, makes you doubt your own sanity, puts huge cracks in your confidence due to the blame that is thrown. Blame, accusations, abuse, all based on nothing more than covering up a lie and/or an inability to accept responsibility. All of it directed at the wrong person. 

So, if it is so horrendous to be on the receiving end of it, if it is so torturous, if it is abuse (which it is), why is there so little out there in the public consciousness? Why are people generally so unaware of it's presence, it's reality, it's damage?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree with the repetitiveness of being here. And yes, some absolute gems here and there.

I suppose they won't have such a pull to be here as us BS's. We found this place due to an intense need. If they had a need that was as strong, to get over what they did, then maybe they would stay. But I imagine it doesn't have the same pull for them. 

I think just sharing a few pertinent threads would be the most effective thing. I think he would get irritated by all the ranting and whitewashing that goes on here sometimes/often! Dare I say it.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Remains said:


> I agree with the repetitiveness of being here. And yes, some absolute gems here and there.
> 
> I suppose they won't have such a pull to be here as us BS's. We found this place due to an intense need. If they had a need that was as strong, to get over what they did, then maybe they would stay. But I imagine it doesn't have the same pull for them.
> 
> I think just sharing a few pertinent threads would be the most effective thing. I think he would get irritated by all the ranting and whitewashing that goes on here sometimes/often! Dare I say it.


It's a missed opportunity if they find this forum and don't use it, they could learn so much. Ok there is a lot they should discard, but so much they could really learn from.

Sometimes it's hard to talk face to face, and this is a really good venue if they want to really see and understand how their BS feels.

Those given the opportunity to see what their BS are posting should just not read, but enter into conversation. The WS has so much to input on this site. They have a vantage point the BS does not, and vice versa.

I guess only those deeply committed will use such a forum be it introduced by their S or because they seek it out.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

gemjo said:


> It's a missed opportunity if they find this forum and don't use it, they could learn so much. Ok there is a lot they should discard, but so much they could really learn from.
> 
> Sometimes it's hard to talk face to face, and this is a really good venue if they want to really see and understand how their BS feels.
> 
> ...


I reckon thats how i found it. Yep. Re-evaluating what marriage means to me, and what kind of marriage i was committed to having. Its done me much good. Although i do find the asinine posts a little too much at times, there are people that share their successes and failures, and that to me means a lot. I hope my wife will join some day. I let her know about this place, an also that our situation is tame compared to some i have read about here. But, on the other hand, ours would be shocking to many im sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

People say "oh it was only an EA" well let me just say..my husband thinks about all the times I told him I don't love you and was telling another man that I love him. A total loser too.. alot of hurt is in an EA . When someone ignores their spouse and is constantly texting another man and being so sneaky about it, it really makes the BS have a hard time wondering if she or he will do it again...it makes them feel devistated. I hate when people say "oh you didn't have sex with the guy and it's been 9 mo, he should be over it" these people just don't get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I think the emotional part is actually a lot worse. More of a personal investment on the part of the ws, more effort. The physical, it is still stomach turning, but its just an extension of the emotional investment sometimes.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> People say "oh it was only an EA" well let me just say..my husband thinks about all the times I told him I don't love you and was telling another man that I love him. A total loser too.. alot of hurt is in an EA . When someone ignores their spouse and is constantly texting another man and being so sneaky about it, it really makes the BS have a hard time wondering if she or he will do it again...it makes them feel devistated. I hate when people say "oh you didn't have sex with the guy and it's been 9 mo, he should be over it" these people just don't get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please don't think I'm underestimating the effects of an EA. I would have been been more devastated if my H had had an EA than his 3 ONS. Sex is sex, much the same with one person as another, and i dont actually take it too personally, even though maybe i should, but an EA is on another level. I see that.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

It is another level but as my hubby says..if it woulda went physical he would not be with me..the worst I guess is to have the EA along with the sex...every couple's situation is different yet I see so many similarities in so many people's stories..heartbreaking...I ripped my husband's heart out..said the I love you but not in love with you speach. Told him I wanted a divorce, saw a laywer, blamed everything on him...everyone's story seems to be the same foggy bullcrap I put my hubby thru..it makes me wanna puke that I did that to him.. I still believe it was a midlife crisis but I did not deal with it the way I should have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> It is another level but as my hubby says..if it woulda went physical he would not be with me..the worst I guess is to have the EA along with the sex...every couple's situation is different yet I see so many similarities in so many people's stories..heartbreaking...I ripped my husband's heart out..said the I love you but not in love with you speach. Told him I wanted a divorce, saw a laywer, blamed everything on him...everyone's story seems to be the same foggy bullcrap I put my hubby thru..it makes me wanna puke that I did that to him.. I still believe it was a midlife crisis but I did not deal with it the way I should have.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes she did hurt me bad but she realises what a horrible choice she made and how she tore me up pretty bad.
She's really doing everything she can to repair the damage and she gets this chance.
There wont be another and she knows it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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