# If your relationship is miserable, leave sooner rather than later - I wish I had.



## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

I’m not posting this for any advice whatsoever, I just need a forum in which to vent. My wife and I have been married for almost seven years and together for eleven. Looking back, I can genuinely say that this relationship has been rocky from the beginning, although being 22 and insecure at the time we got together I didn’t really see it. I continued to be quite insecure until I hit 30 (more on what changed later on). Our relationship was long-distance from the beginning until a few months before we got married, but we saw each other at least every other month. Usually I would fly out to see her and although she was an adult she never once flew out to see me (another red flag I guess). 
While we lived long-distance our relationship was ok. We didn’t fight too often but we also didn’t really talk about much either. When we’d see each other things were also ok, not great though. I’d stay at her parents’ house with her and they wouldn’t let us share the same room (no big deal, it’s their house, so their rules). The thing that bothered me was that on the few occasions that I’d rent a hotel room near her, she wouldn’t spend the night with me. She’d have to run home (keep in mind; she was between the ages of 22 – 26). 

We never have, and still don’t, have much in common. I prefer doing outdoor activities, reading, and going out to pubs once in a while. She prefers staying at home, watching TV and shopping. I used to go shopping with her and watch TV with her quite often – she rarely indulged me in partaking in any of the activities I enjoyed. When I tried to get her to think up of activities we could do together, her only response was “I don’t know.” So here were my options: if I wanted to spend time with her I’d have to stay home and watch TV or go shopping and if I wanted to engage in something I enjoyed, I’d have to do it by myself. 

Even though I saw all these red flags, I stayed with her. As I said, I was very insecure about myself – I don’t have a great body, I’m short, and average looking. I also graduated college with a degree I hated and began a career in a field I hated. I didn’t have much self-worth back then, obviously. So we got engaged and up pops another red flag. I flew out to surprise her and when she asks what I’m doing there (this was surprise, not like “wtf are you doing here?!?”) her mom blurted out that I was there to propose – I was devastated. I had planned an entire evening for us and it was ruined by her mother. She asked if it was true and I just mumbled yes. I let her pick out the engagement ring, but gave her a budget which she pretty much ignored. 

The rest of the day I was quite – I was really upset about what had happened earlier with her mother. That night we didn’t get any alone time because she told all her friends and they wanted to take us out – her mother in tow, of course. When we finally got some alone time, she asked why I was acting so down so I told her I was upset about what her mother did. She told me that I should have stopped her, but honestly who the hell expects someone to do that. I told her that I had been planning something really nice and that it was ruined and that I could never have that moment back – she told me I could still follow through with those plans. I told her I didn’t want to because it wouldn’t be the same. At this she got mad at ME, not her mom…she got mad at ME. Another red flag…

We had a long engagement (2ish years) and it was fine. We had a medium-sized wedding and a nice honey moon. Things were ok in our marriage for about the first six months, but then we just started butting heads all the time. I had no problem doing things for her but she had many issues with doing things for me. When we got married, I told her that I only wanted a few things from her: affection and intimacy. After about six months, these went away and we just started fighting all the time. I felt like I couldn’t do anything – I was stuck in a job I hated and in a marriage in which I was unhappy – I always thought marriage was a two-way street. You give to your partner and your partner gives to you. Apparently, I was wrong. Whenever I’d try to talk about my issues my wife’s only response was “no I don’t do that,” “I’m sorry,” or “yeah but you.” Her “yeah but you” was always very weak and she’d bring up one thing I didn’t do for her a month ago or whatever. 

Our sex life before marriage was pretty good. She was a virgin and wanted to wait until she was married (in my book and with my hindsight this was a HUGE red flag). We would fool around quite often whenever we were together and at least a third of the time it was her initiating it. I got plenty of oral and plenty of manual pleasure so I didn’t really miss intercourse. I reciprocated enthusiastically and there wasn’t one time that we were together when she didn’t have at least one orgasm. She was an animal and seemed unquenchable. 

On our honeymoon, we had sex maybe once every two days (another red flag) and she spent quite a bit of time on the phone with her mom. I didn’t really mind, she’d never flown out of the country before, let alone traveled with someone other than her family. The rest of the honeymoon was ok. Our honeymoon was in Tahiti and I spent a lot of time snorkeling (by myself because she can’t swim and is afraid of the ocean). I can genuinely say that we never had a sexual honeymoon. When we came back from our honeymoon we settled into a routine of only weekend sex and it was only once a night. It always felt rushed. As soon as we were done, there was no cuddling – she’d run to the bathroom, clean herself up, put on her pajamas and go to sleep. To this day I’ve never had sex with her more than once in a day and only at night. We’ve never had sex in the morning. We’ve never spent a weekend in bed going at it like rabbits. The sex is always vanilla - only two positions, no oral, only a little manual stimulation and she basically just lays there, although she does seem to enjoy it when we have it. Thing slowly died…we went from twice a week, to once every two weeks, to once a month, to once every two months and our longest stretch without sex was 10 months. 

Not only were we sexless, there was zero affection from her. I’d try to hug her and she would just stand there. I tried kissing her and it was not returned. I helped around the house…nothing (I don’t buy the more help from guys = more sex and my wife is why). I became a jerk and cold towards her. I still to this day harbor so much resentment towards her. I finally brought up marriage counseling to her and her response was “I’m not cookoo.” I thought her birth control pill had something to do with her change in libido, but she refused and still refuses to address this with a doctor. According to her, everything is ok. I’ve never asked, but she makes it quite obvious that she’s ok with a sexless marriage. 

Now, back to what happened when I was 30. So I had been stuck in a really crappy job for about four and a half years. One morning I just looked at myself in the mirror and realized that I was miserable with the path my life was taking. I couldn’t work 50 – 60 hours per week the rest of my life. Medicine had always been my one true love and after much thought I decided to go back to school and pursue a career in nursing. I talked this over with my wife, who surprisingly was very supportive. I spent the next six months saving up enough money for us to live on and supplement her income while I was in school. I quit my job in August and went back to school that September. I began nursing school two years later and am graduating this may, with honors.

You don’t know how incredibly empowering it feels to take control of your life after feeling like you wasted it for so many years! I was so happy! My wife was happy too – but nothing changed on the sexual or affection front. I was still given the cold shoulder whenever I tried. I thought things would change because I would see her more often, but things got worse! She became more critical of me and complained more. Even when I got a part time job (making more than she does and affording us benefits) things didn’t change. I tried talking to her about it and her only response has been “you’ve changed since you quit your job.” She doesn’t elaborate, no matter how hard I try to get her to, so I’m left with the assumption that this isn’t the real reason.

Finally a year and a half ago I’d had enough. While on vacation in Hawaii I took her for a long hike and explained to her exactly how I feel. How angry, disappointed, and resentful I feel. How I feel like I wasted so much time being in a relationship with someone who obviously doesn’t care about me, how I feel, or my needs at all. She didn’t have much to say, tried blaming me for everything but when pressed couldn’t come up with anything I’d done that would have made our relationship this way. She apologized and said she would change. She has never once in our marriage ever initiated sex. 

Things did change – when we got back home we had sex about once a week but it was still the vanilla starfish variety. I told her I wanted to bring some excitement into the bedroom and try out some toys or anything like that – she would have none of it. Sex for her was satisfying the way it was. I was left unsatisfied more often than not (I would orgasm but it was just…boring). After about six months of this, things again started to slow down…back to once every two weeks, once a month, once every two months. I talked to her about it and she kept promising things would change. They never did. Whenever I’d try to initiate it or take her to the bedroom with me, I’d get one of three responses: “no,” “not tonight, but we can tomorrow,” or “are you kidding me?” Tomorrow never came – whenever tomorrow came she would come to bed late or if I was still away she’d say “oh I forgot, you wanted to have sex.” The “are you kidding me” sliced me like a razor blade and it was often said while watching some ETV show – so there you have it, TV = more important than me.

About a year ago I emailed her a letter detailing how I felt, what I needed from her, and what would happen if things didn’t change (I’d leave when nursing school was done). I gave her a lot of time to think about it and decide what she wanted to do. I left the ball in her court. She skimmed the letter and I don’t think she’s ever fully read it because things haven’t changed. I occasionally reminded her that I felt hollow inside, but it fell on dead ears.

This past September I decided that I’m done – I pretty much checked out of my marriage. She finally decided that she wanted to work on things and wanted to have sex with me – we’ve had it once since then…in October. It did not feel the same – it felt like a chore for me. I did not get any pleasure or intimacy out of it. I think this solidified even more in my mind that I was done with the marriage. She knows things are over, but now is when she decides to want to work on them. I have no desire to fix this anymore – after 6.5 long years of marriage and trying to fix things, I have nothing left to give anymore. I am hollow inside and full of resentment towards her, sometimes I think about living the rest of my life with her and I just can’t breathe. 

I married her because I love her. I wanted to spend my life with her, making love often and having fun together. I wanted her to be the mother of my children. All I ever asked for in return was to be wanted! This isn’t something that I think is difficult – if you love someone shouldn’t you want them? Not once in our marriage did she ever initiate sex, affection, or physical contact. I feel like I’ve been taken for a bait-and-switch. I feel like I have no one to blame by myself – if I hadn’t been so insecure I never would have married her. I would have been ok being single until I found someone who truly loves me and wants me. 

I’m thrilled to be graduating and starting my career soon – I love nursing and medicine, it’s what I was meant to do. It gives me great joy. I can’t wait until I start my career – I’ll be doing what I’m called to do in life. I also can’t wait because I’ll finally be able to divorce her (right now I don’t have the time or financial capability of doing it). I’m very sad that this is how things turned out. I’m going at it alone – my family is very Catholic and will not accept my divorce. I’m not willing to tell them about the issues in my marriage because it’s very emasculating and embarrassing. The only person I’ve told is my brother – he’s supportive at least but we’ve never been very close. I just wish I could build a time machine and go back to the moment I met her and just keep going on with my life. I think I would have been much happier than I am now (I cry myself to sleep quite often). I’m incredibly lonely – counseling will be sought when I have the time to go this summer. My self-worth is shot again – if my wife doesn’t want me, who would? 

ETA: I am divorcing her once nursing school is done. I'm to young to live like this the rest of my life. 


Like I said in the beginning, I’m not here for advice (if you want to give it, feel free to)…I just needed a place to vent my anger, frustration, and disappointment.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Forgive me but that was just too long and most folks here won't read so much. Please consider condensing your post a bit and be clear and succinct.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

Sanity said:


> Forgive me but that was just too long and most folks here won't read so much. Please consider condensing your post a bit and be clear and succinct.


If someone doesn't want to read it, it's their prerogative. I'm not shortening it because some people may not read it - as I said, I posted it to get this off my chest. I don't have anyone in real life who I can turn to, so posting it online was the next best thing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I did read the whole thing. Other than the fact that I would also be kinda upset with someone who pouted (was quiet and angry) on our engagement day because the surprise was ruined and refused to continue with the special plans......being sexless is unacceptable so it is better to leave sooner rather than later. 

Also-You said you can't leave now because you are financially capable, if you are needing her to support you through school (I know you said you had some saved but is she supporting you as well?) then I think it's pretty crappy to wait until you are done before you leave. If you are done with the marriage, divorce. Don't have her support you through school and then leave as soon as you are employable. Or at least make it clear to her that you will be divorcing.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I did read the whole thing. Other than the fact that I would also be kinda upset with someone who pouted (was quiet and angry) on our engagement day because the surprise was ruined and refused to continue with the special plans......being sexless is unacceptable so it is better to leave sooner rather than later.
> 
> Also-You said you can't leave now because you are financially capable, if you are needing her to support you through school (I know you said you had some saved but is she supporting you as well?) then I think it's pretty crappy to wait until you are done before you leave. If you are done with the marriage, divorce. Don't have her support you through school and then leave as soon as you are employable. Or at least make it clear to her that you will be divorcing.


I didn't make it very clear but I work part time and make a little more than she does so she does not support me. I also get insurance through my job (healthcare work is great - benefits at 20 hours per week).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

I also read the whole thing and I can tell you that IMHO, your entire post hinges on what you wrote HERE:



> I feel like I have no one to blame by myself – if I hadn’t been so insecure I never would have married her


This is a powerful sentence. After reading your post, I tend to agree with you. I can also see that you intend to divorce your wife, which I'd also agree with. 

The only 'advice' I'd offer is this: When you do present her with your plan, please do NOT make this out to be HER fault, as if you're leaving because there's something "wrong" with HER. I can tell you from experience that her 'coldness' may be in response to your insecurities. Insecurity in a man is simply unattractive. Insecurity can manifest in MANY different ways, and your wife may be responding in kind. 

But it seems like you are both incompatible with each other. Your wife may not recognize it as such, but YOU do, and that's all that's needed. It doesn't mean she's "evil" or that you're a lost cause. It just means that you both have different philosophies of life that can't be reconciled without a LOT of work. 

Oh, and one more thing...

Please do yourself a favor and use some of your new found benefits for some therapy to explore the root of your insecurities so you don't make the same mistake twice! You and any future partner you have will be happier for it!

Just my 2 "sense".

Vega


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

Vega said:


> The only 'advice' I'd offer is this: When you do present her with your plan, please do NOT make this out to be HER fault, as if you're leaving because there's something "wrong" with HER. I can tell you from experience that her 'coldness' may be in response to your insecurities. Insecurity in a man is simply unattractive. Insecurity can manifest in MANY different ways, and your wife may be responding in kind.


To address the first point: I will absolutely NOT make the divorce her fault. I'm still trying to come up with a way that does not make it seem like it's all her fault. She's very weak emotionally so I know this will be devastating for her enough as it is already and don't want to put the full burden on her.

To address your second point: my insecurities are internal - I tend not show them to others and I'm pretty sure she doesn't know about it (maybe she does, who knows). I tend to be confident, but not arrogantly so and am very good at compartmentalizing everything in my life. But like I said, who knows if she picked up on them. After I went back to school and became much more secure with myself, she became even worse with me and started criticizing me more. So maybe she knew I was insecure and it didn't bother her and now that I was secure it bothered her. Ugh - you gave me something to think about for my next relationship (a long way down the road from now).

ETA: I do plan on pursuing counseling when school is done. I'm very introspective and I think the reason for my insecurity in the beginning was being so young and choosing a career path that wasn't for me (finance). I should have gone towards medicine and now I'm thrilled to be on that path. As for my insecurity now, I think it lies with being married to someone who has shown so little desire for me. Again, who knows.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I'm still trying to come up with a way that does not make it seem like it's all her fault.


How about by TELLING her "This is NOT YOUR FAULT"...for starters. You'll probably end up having at least ONE if not SEVERAL "break-up talks". Just keep the focus on YOU; not HER. 



> To address your second point: my insecurities are internal - I tend not show them to others and I'm pretty sure she doesn't know about it (maybe she does, who knows). I tend to be confident, but not arrogantly so and am very good at compartmentalizing everything in my life. But like I said, who knows if she picked up on them.


Considering that communication is about 93% non-verbal, she probably picked up on this eons ago. 



> Ugh - you gave me something to think about for my next relationship (a long way down the road from now)


Oh, good! I think one of the best things you can do for yourself is to take a hiatus from intimate relationships for a while. Spend some time in therapy and getting to know _yourself_. Embracing your own 'flaws' while 'working on them'. Figure out what you are willing to tolerate in a partner, and what your drop-dead 'deal-breakers' are. 

Oh, and here's a hint: One of your deal-breaker should NOT be that your partner should give you sex no matter how much of a jerk you've been to her! :nono:

K?

Vega


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## kitty2013 (Dec 6, 2013)

Your wife wants to work on the marriage, are you sure you will have no regret about your decision for not giving your marriage a chance?


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

kitty2013 said:


> Your wife wants to work on the marriage, are you sure you will have no regret about your decision for not giving your marriage a chance?


I am sure. This is a cycle that goes on: I talk to her, she promises to change, changes for a little but, then reverts back. I've tried and tried everything I can - she refuses counseling. At this point I have checked out completely and have made peace with the fact that we are just not compatible. I can't continue those cycles. In 33 and still young - I deserve to be with someone who treats me well and she deserves someone who will show her how to love - obviously that person wasn't me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

I admire that you have courage to break it off. Some people just choose affairs in this kind of situation. 

As I posted somewhere else, people sometimes marry for the wrong reasons, insecurity being one of them. You are really doing the right thing. 

I wish you all the best. Hopefully you will find the "one". What is life without true love?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You gave a good account of your situation. Vega raised good points. It seems that you have thought about many of them even you have not resolved them entirely.

You believed that you could not do better when you decided to propose to your wife. She accepted in much the same spirit. This was a mistake. 

Did she ever ask to have children? This is absent from your narrative, other than your statement that you wanted to. 

Finance... now to nursing. So you have taken a pay cut. If you do well in nursing, after a few years the finance background combined with nursing will offer you promotions into administration. Are you willing to entertain this?

Is your wife good looking?

Are you in shape? Does she work out?

She sounds like a boring person. TV is dullness.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> You gave a good account of your situation. Vega raised good points. It seems that you have thought about many of them even you have not resolved them entirely.
> 
> *Yes, as I said, I am very introspective. Sometimes I reach conclusions quickly, sometimes it takes time. This is taking some time and I think counseling when school is done (and when I have time) will be quite helpful*
> 
> ...


To me, what she considers "fun" is incredibly boring. I'm sure she has the same complaint about what I consider fun though (hiking, outdoors type stuff, etc).


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## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

I read your whole post. There are so many similarities in what I'm going through, I was compelled to keep reading. The one difference, be it a blessing or a curse, is that my wife has never wavered from her own criticisms and decisions (sexless six years now). In other words, never once has she said she'd work on it, which makes it clear that she places 100% of the blame on me. The things she DID say, in response to my alarm at what was happening, were, "What am I supposed to do, go live with my mom?", and "This is mutual, so don't hang this on me!" No discussion, no meeting in the middle, no suggestions, nothing.

In that regard, maybe your wife saying she'd try to change was an honest attempt to at least think about it?? Who knows what goes on in their minds when they don't want to do what we need them to do.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

PinkSalmon13 said:


> I read your whole post. There are so many similarities in what I'm going through, I was compelled to keep reading. The one difference, be it a blessing or a curse, is that my wife has never wavered from her own criticisms and decisions (sexless six years now). In other words, never once has she said she'd work on it, which makes it clear that she places 100% of the blame on me. The things she DID say, in response to my alarm at what was happening, were, "What am I supposed to do, go live with my mom?", and "This is mutual, so don't hang this on me!" No discussion, no meeting in the middle, no suggestions, nothing.
> 
> In that regard, maybe your wife saying she'd try to change was an honest attempt to at least think about it?? Who knows what goes on in their minds when they don't want to do what we need them to do.


To be honest, even if she was honest this time, I don't believe here. She has, many times in the passed, promised to change. She changes for a short while, things to good in our marriage, then she goes back to her old ways and things go sour very quickly. This has happened quite a few times in our marriage, and quite a few of those were in the last year or year and a half. 

I wish it would have just been like you're situation, at least in that position your wife is honest in her stance and doesn't make you think she'll change.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Sanity said:


> Forgive me but that was just too long and most folks here won't read so much. Please consider condensing your post a bit and be clear and succinct.


If the story doesn't echo with your taste, keep in mind that the stories aren't written for you - it's for the author and whoever may find it helpful. I read through the whole story, because it reflects how I felt during marriage before everything fell apart. There are stories that I read first paragraph and I say "it's not for me", but this sad, sexless, affectionless, and childless story compiles me to read until I finish.

Powerful story because I felt, still feel, and still fear, that I won't find anyone like my stbxw ever again. My own insecurity and myself is the biggest hurdle that I have to get over, and act upon my rational analysis rather than unfathomable fear.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

PinkSalmon13 said:


> I read your whole post. There are so many similarities in what I'm going through, I was compelled to keep reading. The one difference, be it a blessing or a curse, is that my wife has never wavered from her own criticisms and decisions (sexless six years now). In other words, never once has she said she'd work on it,


Dear lord! I understand why P51Geo1980 kept trying, since his wife at least made a token effort, but six years of emotional and physical separation means you don't have a marriage anymore, except on paper. At the risk of hijacking this thread, why on earth do you put up with that?? 




> _ which makes it clear that she places 100% of the blame on me. The things she DID say, in response to my alarm at what was happening, were, "What am I supposed to do, go live with my mom?",_



I would respond with: "_*why not?? Since our marriage is sexless I am basically living with my mom right now*_."


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## amusenet (Jul 12, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I’m not posting this for any advice whatsoever,
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


OK, I did read all your story. Even though you said you didn't want advice, I'm going to unload anyway. 

Your side of the story has some similarities to the kind of thing STBXW may have thought right before she walked out. So I've experienced the other side of what you're thinking of doing. It actually made me angry reading it, but also I do sympathize having been in an almost sexless marriage. So I had both sides, almost. I was stunned when my W cheated and moved out after rejecting sex for so long. Then she blamed me for a string of problems in the relationship even though she'd barely mentioned any before.

I have to say up front, it sounds like you're already in an EA with someone else, or at least thinking about that. You didn't mention it, but it sounded like it. Any kind of cheating is a pretty low thing to do. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though since you didn't mention any cheating and maybe I'm seeing too many similarities with my W story.

Even so it seems like you're plotting about leaving your wife after 11 years and she has no idea you're even thinking of it. Your plan is to dump her right after you finish nursing school, having planned it out and made your final decision. You already said you know she'll be devastated. My guess it that right now she's thinking your marriage is getting better because you stopped complaining about stuff. She probably puts that down to you doing well at nursing school and finally getting the career you want, and is happy for you and looking forward to a bright and happy future for both of you together. She doesn't know you only stopped complaining because you're finalizing your plans, so you can present it as a done deal, with no going back. She won't know what hit her when it comes.

I have to say right up front, in my view you're behaving like an a..hole. If you're not happy with the way your marriage has gone, you need to make it clear, right now, TODAY. 

That way you at least give your marriage a chance to get back on its feet. Right now you're going to take a 22 year old girl who is desperate to have kids and dump her as a distraight 34 year old woman, alone, heartbroken and childless. 

All she will have is thoughts of what could have been, questions about why it didn't work out that will never be answered, and a Herculean task ahead of her to somehow find it in herself to trust someone again and start over. Even so, you will have taken away from her the prime years of her youth, replacing all her happy memories with painful and sorrowful ones, and done damage that can never be undone. 

If I was her father I'd want to come after you for what you're thinking of doing. I'd like to think he's from Texas and would catch up with you, and wouldn't miss. In my opinion that's what you'd deserve for what you're thinking of doing. Sorry to be so blunt, that's what I think. I know in reality parents just have to try their best to help their kids pick up the pieces of shattered lives and broken dreams when people they trusted treat their sons and daughters like this.

Here is what you should do: tell her how you feel. Honestly. Don't hold back. If you're considering divorce, let her know. Say why you're unhappy, and what got you here. Involve her in your decision making process, just like you did when you changed career, and she supported you.

You owe her that. You said you were insecure and didn't have a lot of self-worth when you first got together. You've grown and got confident since then. Now you're at the point where you're finally getting the career you want. I don't want to run down your achievements, I admire you for getting on and making the positive changes to your life. But, think about it.. you didn't do it all by yourself. She was there with you all that time, by your side, as your wife. So, she hasn't been able to grow as a person in the same time, maybe she thought her role was to support you. Do you even know? Have you really talked about this with her?

If you leave her, may might never be able to make that transition, and you'll never know if she could. That might not bother you, you can go off and have your new career and maybe find someone else and be happy, as long as you don't spend too long thinking about your first wife and how you let her down.

Instead, you could give it a fair chance. Be prepared to compromise a little- if you want daily sex and a variety of exciting new positions, remember that doesn't happen even in some of the best marriages. But you are right to want affection and closeness. Tell her. You need a decent sex life. If you have a kink, she should at least try to get on board with that. You for her to, you might be surprised. 

Be prepared to let her know you will do whatever it takes to get things back on track. Don't put a time limit on things, just say what you need and be patient. See if she responds and give her a chance. Be willing to do whatever it takes, as long as she can show you she's trying too. 

Theer are definately problems in your marriage. TV is a killer for relationships. You got to find a way around that. Does she have a TiVo or something to record programs or insist on watching everything "live"? You need to find a way around that to reconnect.

My idea would be, when you finish nursing school, instead of scheming about how you can best deliver your bombshell, instead plan a vacation. Not just a weekend in Vegas, a real change of scenery, away from the TV and the misery of daily life. If she can't take a sebatical, see if she'd be interested in quitting her job and taking a few months out. Have you ever been to Europe? Try Paris in the Spring. She likes shopping, take her to Milan, Italy. I always thought Lisbon, Portugal was a lot like San Francisco (must be the bridge). Try and get back to find the love you once had for each other. 

I don't know her, maybe she really isn't bothered by her marriage. If you do all that, maybe half way through she'll quit, say she didn't sign up for this, and you will have gotten what you wanted anyway because she'll leave you. 

You promosed to love her and protect her. Keep your word.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

amusenet said:


> OK, I did read all your story. Even though you said you didn't want advice, I'm going to unload anyway.
> 
> Your side of the story has some similarities to the kind of thing STBXW may have thought right before she walked out. So I've experienced the other side of what you're thinking of doing. It actually made me angry reading it, but also I do sympathize having been in an almost sexless marriage. So I had both sides, almost. I was stunned when my W cheated and moved out after rejecting sex for so long. Then she blamed me for a string of problems in the relationship even though she'd barely mentioned any before.
> 
> ...


She also promised things in her wedding vows, things that she has reneged on. Your whole post stinks of deflection and anger over your marital problems onto my marriage. To suggest that I'm having an EA when I'm not is ridiculous - especially because you claim there are similarities between me and your ex-wife. Some people still have integrity - your STBXW obviously doesn't, but it doesn't mean that everyone who has problems in their marriage will cheat.

Your response reeks of bitterness, anger, and resentment. I'm already going to get counseling when I get divorced to let go of my anger and resentment towards my STBXW. I highly suggest you do the same - you'll be much happier and less angry. You should probably have started a long time ago.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

P51, I read your whole post. I think you're doing the right thing. Just don't get her pregnant.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

I will work on marriage as long as there's even the tiniest bit of hope left. The bare minimum that I need to hang on is even the smallest action that things will turn out to be better - not promises, but action. A simple touch, hug, or kiss; a sincere "how was your day", anything. I will walk through fire and storm to reach the light at the end of the tunnel, but to preserve for so long, the spouse must be willing to reciprocate - even in the smallest ways.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> P51, I read your whole post. I think you're doing the right thing. Just don't get her pregnant.


Unless he does a total 180 from his current decisions, he won't be getting her pregnant because touching is involved which he isn't presently doing with her.


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## amusenet (Jul 12, 2013)

> OK, I did read all your story. Even though you said you didn't want advice, I'm going to unload anyway.
> 
> Your side of the story has some similarities to the kind of thing STBXW may have thought right before she walked out. So I've experienced the other side of what you're thinking of doing. It actually made me angry reading it, but also I do sympathize having been in an almost sexless marriage. So I had both sides, almost. I was stunned when my W cheated and moved out after rejecting sex for so long. Then she blamed me for a string of problems in the relationship even though she'd barely mentioned any before.
> 
> ...


Yep I know.. your account sounded eerily similar to what I'd guess my STBXW would say, although in my case it was her that refused sex, and then her that left. But by the end it probably got a bit difficult to see who was refusing who, because I'd got to the point where I'd pretty much given up trying too.

I guess because people's accounts of their marital breakdown often follow familiar patterns. Sometimes it's reality, sometimes it's made up "rewritten history" to sound like a plausable story, and sometimes just differences in perception. 



> Even so it seems like you're plotting about leaving your wife after 11 years and she has no idea you're even thinking of it. Your plan is to dump her right after you finish nursing school, having planned it out and made your final decision. You already said you know she'll be devastated. My guess it that right now she's thinking your marriage is getting better because you stopped complaining about stuff. She probably puts that down to you doing well at nursing school and finally getting the career you want, and is happy for you and looking forward to a bright and happy future for both of you together. She doesn't know you only stopped complaining because you're finalizing your plans, so you can present it as a done deal, with no going back. She won't know what hit her when it comes.
> 
> *She's very well aware that I've checked out of the marriage so it's not going to be a complete shock to her. I no longer touch her, I no longer kiss her, I no longer talk to her about the future.*


OK now I am a bit confused because earlier you said you knew she'd be devastated when you asked for D. Maybe I'm taking a simplistic view here but my guess would be, when you say you want D she'll either shrug and maybe feel a little sad but accept it because she saw it coming, or be devastated because she had no idea things were that bad.



> I have to say right up front, in my view you're behaving like an a..hole. If you're not happy with the way your marriage has gone, you need to make it clear, right now, TODAY.
> 
> That way you at least give your marriage a chance to get back on its feet. Right now you're going to take a 22 year old girl who is desperate to have kids and dump her as a distraight 34 year old woman, alone, heartbroken and childless.
> 
> *I have no desire for my marriage to get back on it's feet. I've given her 11 years of my life and have gotten nothing but bitterness, lack of desire, no affection and no love in return. My marriage is DEAD. I didn't ask for much out of my marriage, but the little that I did ask was to difficult for her to do. I guess you missed that part when you were projecting the anger you have towards your STBXW onto me.*


No I got that part, but I also believe that marriages can be recoverable even if they've reached a really, really, low point. Only if both partners want to though. I guess I'm confused about how she can not want divorce, but not want to fix the problems either. All I got left is that she hasn't figured these are "divorce level" problems.

One thing I took away from my marriage (which will now be for my current relationship) is about how serious complaints can fade into the background against the less serious ones. It happens when there's other problems happening all the time, about your career, and little stuff like the laundry or loading the dishwasher or whatever. It can be difficult to differentiate the real problems.





> All she will have is thoughts of what could have been, questions about why it didn't work out that will never be answered, and a Herculean task ahead of her to somehow find it in herself to trust someone again and start over. Even so, you will have taken away from her the prime years of her youth, replacing all her happy memories with painful and sorrowful ones, and done damage that can never be undone.
> 
> *This works both ways - she took away my prime years as well.*


The bit I don't get is why the cloak-and-dagger approach where you will "do the deed" after you finish nursing school. If it's this bad why aren't you two already discussing divorce?



> If I was her father I'd want to come after you for what you're thinking of doing. I'd like to think he's from Texas and would catch up with you, and wouldn't miss. In my opinion that's what you'd deserve for what you're thinking of doing. Sorry to be so blunt, that's what I think. I know in reality parents just have to try their best to help their kids pick up the pieces of shattered lives and broken dreams when people they trusted treat their sons and daughters like this.
> 
> *You have some anger issues there, bud. You may want to get some help for them.*


I'm not sure it's as simple as going to get issues "fixed" like a faulty carburetor.



> Here is what you should do: tell her how you feel. Honestly. Don't hold back. If you're considering divorce, let her know. Say why you're unhappy, and what got you here. Involve her in your decision making process, just like you did when you changed career, and she supported you.
> 
> *I don't think you read my entire post at all...or any of my responses for that matter. I have talked to her about it. Many many times. I've given her more chances than many people would have. I am emotionally spent.*


I did, but looks like I saw it from another angle.




> You owe her that. You said you were insecure and didn't have a lot of self-worth when you first got together. You've grown and got confident since then. Now you're at the point where you're finally getting the career you want. I don't want to run down your achievements, I admire you for getting on and making the positive changes to your life. But, think about it.. you didn't do it all by yourself. She was there with you all that time, by your side, as your wife. So, she hasn't been able to grow as a person in the same time, maybe she thought her role was to support you. Do you even know? Have you really talked about this with her?
> 
> *I don't owe her anything anymore. As I said, I didn't ask for much in marriage. Just a little affection, sex, love, and intimacy on all levels. Every time she's been there for me, it's with a complaint. Even though she did do some of the things I asked of her, it was always with a complaint. And yes, I have talked to her about this - it's always ended up in an argument so I just stopped.*


Sounds like you got to the point of having an argument and then backed down without resolving the issue one way or the other. 



> If you leave her, may might never be able to make that transition, and you'll never know if she could. That might not bother you, you can go off and have your new career and maybe find someone else and be happy, as long as you don't spend too long thinking about your first wife and how you let her down.
> 
> *I'm over this. I know I'll let her down but at this point she's had enough chances to change. I guess you didn't read where I said I've talked to her, she's promised to change, has changed for a little bit, then went back to her old ways.*


If you have got to the point where you can't forgive her then your relationship isn't salvageable. 

You might be storing up problems for the future though as forgiveness is often part of the recovery process too.



> Instead, you could give it a fair chance. Be prepared to compromise a little- if you want daily sex and a variety of exciting new positions, remember that doesn't happen even in some of the best marriages. But you are right to want affection and closeness. Tell her. You need a decent sex life. If you have a kink, she should at least try to get on board with that. You for her to, you might be surprised.
> 
> *I've already given it a fair chance. I've already compromised - for her "compromise" meant me giving into her wants and her never having to give in. Again, this paragraph makes me doubt that you have read anything I've written....*


I did read it! Maybe I'm just giving a devil's advocate response. 

I'm wondering though, what would your W say in her defence? 



> Be prepared to let her know you will do whatever it takes to get things back on track. Don't put a time limit on things, just say what you need and be patient. See if she responds and give her a chance. Be willing to do whatever it takes, as long as she can show you she's trying too.
> 
> *See, after so many years of things being miserable for me, I'm no longer willing to do whatever it takes. I'm at the point where I just need to cut my losses and move on.*


Is it that you're not willing to do whatever it takes, or that you don't think anything can possibly work?




> Theer are definately problems in your marriage. TV is a killer for relationships. You got to find a way around that. Does she have a TiVo or something to record programs or insist on watching everything "live"? You need to find a way around that to reconnect.
> 
> My idea would be, when you finish nursing school, instead of scheming about how you can best deliver your bombshell, instead plan a vacation. Not just a weekend in Vegas, a real change of scenery, away from the TV and the misery of daily life. If she can't take a sebatical, see if she'd be interested in quitting her job and taking a few months out. Have you ever been to Europe? Try Paris in the Spring. She likes shopping, take her to Milan, Italy. I always thought Lisbon, Portugal was a lot like San Francisco (must be the bridge). Try and get back to find the love you once had for each other.
> 
> *Vacation? Our problems will just be here when we come back. I'm not going to spend money that I don't have to escape problems that will just be here when we get back. I had love for her - she obviously didn't. As I said, and as you obviously missed, I got married to her because I loved her. She got married because it's the thing to do.*


The idea of something like that would be to try and work through the problems, not to put them on hold. 



> I don't know her, maybe she really isn't bothered by her marriage. If you do all that, maybe half way through she'll quit, say she didn't sign up for this, and you will have gotten what you wanted anyway because she'll leave you.
> 
> You promosed to love her and protect her. Keep your word.






P51Geo1980 said:


> She also promised things in her wedding vows, things that she has reneged on. Your whole post stinks of deflection and anger over your marital problems onto my marriage. To suggest that I'm having an EA when I'm not is ridiculous - especially because you claim there are similarities between me and your ex-wife. Some people still have integrity - your STBXW obviously doesn't, but it doesn't mean that everyone who has problems in their marriage will cheat.
> 
> Your response reeks of bitterness, anger, and resentment. I'm already going to get counseling when I get divorced to let go of my anger and resentment towards my STBXW. I highly suggest you do the same - you'll be much happier and less angry. You should probably have started a long time ago.


I find it interesting that your view of counseling is that you can go get problems like anger/bitterness/resentment cleared up, like an unwanted yeast infection. 

Obviously you've encountered more effective form of counseling than I have


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

*Re: Re: If your relationship is miserable, leave sooner rather than later - I wish I*



Kria said:


> Unless he does a total 180 from his current decisions, he won't be getting her pregnant because touching is involved which he isn't presently doing with her.


When she finds out he's leaving her she may step up to the sex plate to try to get him to stay. He just needs to be careful.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't know why it's so hard to tell her that you don't want to work on the marriage anymore and you're done. Why play games?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

P51... I applaud your decision. I stayed 20 years in a completely DEAD marriage; mostly I stayed "for the kids" (big mistake by the way, they would have had much less psychological damage if I had left early on when my gut told me to).

Hands down, it was the BEST decision I ever made. I am in a long-term (more than 3 years) happy, love-of-my life relationship with my SO. We connect on every level, my kids adore him, and my life has improved in ways too numerous to count.

I wish you the very best of luck.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> P51... I applaud your decision. I stayed 20 years in a completely DEAD marriage; mostly I stayed "for the kids" (big mistake by the way, they would have had much less psychological damage if I had left early on when my gut told me to).
> 
> Hands down, it was the BEST decision I ever made. I am in a long-term (more than 3 years) happy, love-of-my life relationship with my SO. We connect on every level, my kids adore him, and my life has improved in ways too numerous to count.
> 
> I wish you the very best of luck.


Yeah, I really don't understand the "fight for your marriage, even if it's dead" mentality. I understand I made vows, but so did she. When I got marriage, I truly was in love with her - she got married because I was convenient. Vows work both ways, and marriages are a two way street - if I'm not getting out of it what I put in, then it's not a relationship I want to be in. I'm not in a marriage to be someone's ego booster. I got married to have a fulfilling relationship - one in which I can make someone else happy and that person can make me happy. 

This idea that it's noble to suffer in a marriage and that as long as you make your spouse happy you should stay is ridiculous. You only live once, so you might as well make the most of it. If you're unhappy, change the circumstances. I was unhappy in my business career, I changed those circumstances. I'm unhappy in my marriage, so I'm changing those circumstances. 

To suggest that I'm an a-hole, that I'm cheating on her, or that her father should physically assault me, as amusenet did, is ridiculous. Some marriages just don't work out. People change over time - sometimes they outgrow a spouse - it's sad but it happens - especially if you marry at a very young age. Some people just change, either for the better or for the worse and the spouse just can't handle it or doesn't want to go along with the change. 

Congrats on your new relationship. I will someday hopefully be at that point as well - but not for a very very long time. Thankfully I'm entering a career full of available and intelligent women so I have something to look forward to when the time comes. :smthumbup:


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> I don't know why it's so hard to tell her that you don't want to work on the marriage anymore and you're done. Why play games?


I'm not playing any games. I'm not giving her any hope that this marriage will work out. She's well aware that the marriage is in dire straights and that there is no hope of recovery.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I'm not playing any games. I'm not giving her any hope that this marriage will work out. She's well aware that the marriage is in dire straights and that there is no hope of recovery.


You said she is getting older and wants kids, have you actually told her that once you are done school you will be filing for divorce?


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You said she is getting older and wants kids, have you actually told her that once you are done school you will be filing for divorce?


No, and I won't be. It will serve no good. It's better to wait until I'm done with school to serve her than to let her know now. This is not negotiable, nor is it the point of my post. This is the last time I address this particular issue. When I serve he divorce papers is my prerogative and it won't change a thing. 

Her wanting children and me divorcing her are two different issues. Even if I were to stay and try to save our marriage there is no way in hell I would bring children into this marriage for many years. It's not fair to bring children into a turbulent situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You said she is getting older and wants kids, have you actually told her that once you are done school you will be filing for divorce?


Then why wait if you're so sure you're done? If you still care about her as a person, serve the papers and move on. Why keep her still thinking maybe there is some hope...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

P51Geo1980 said:


> No, and I won't be. It will serve no good. It's better to wait until I'm done with school to serve her than to let her know now. This is not negotiable, nor is it the point of my post. This is the last time I address this particular issue. When I serve he divorce papers is my prerogative and it won't change a thing.
> 
> Her wanting children and me divorcing her are two different issues. Even if I were to stay and try to save our marriage there is no way in hell I would bring children into this marriage for many years. It's not fair to bring children into a turbulent situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It serves the purpose of letting her know ASAP so she can get on with her life and goal of having children before it is too late for her. It's not about her getting a chance to get you back or you having kids with her, you are done and that's fine. It's about her having the chance to move on - and her time is running out if she wants children. It does no good to keep her waiting any longer once you know you are going to file.


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## amusenet (Jul 12, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> This idea that it's noble to suffer in a marriage and that as long as you make your spouse happy you should stay is ridiculous. You only live once, so you might as well make the most of it. If you're unhappy, change the circumstances. I was unhappy in my business career, I changed those circumstances. I'm unhappy in my marriage, so I'm changing those circumstances.


You shouldn't stay unhappy, you loved her once, enough to marry her, I just wonder what went wrong. Could be that your wife is narcissistic and they way she's treating you is a form of emotional abuse, that does happen, and there's not much that can be done except get out. Could also be just years of built up resentment. Any number of things.

The part I don't get is about planning your departure without having figured out what's wrong or why you can't get back to the way you used to be. Seems there's some kind of communication breakdown where your wife isn't getting the message that the marriage really isn't working for you.

Seems to be commonplace these days. People fight without resolving their difficulties and go away and fume on their own until one day enough is enough and boom, gone in one go. 





> To suggest that I'm an a-hole, that I'm cheating on her, or that her father should physically assault me, as amusenet did, is ridiculous. Some marriages just don't work out. People change over time - sometimes they outgrow a spouse - it's sad but it happens - especially if you marry at a very young age. Some people just change, either for the better or for the worse and the spouse just can't handle it or doesn't want to go along with the change.


OK I'm maybe overly suspicious. It's America's #2 reason for divorce so I might not be the only person to jump to conclusions. By the way #1 is communication problems.





> Congrats on your new relationship. I will someday hopefully be at that point as well - but not for a very very long time. Thankfully I'm entering a career full of available and intelligent women so I have something to look forward to when the time comes. :smthumbup:


Thanks but I didn't get there by choice. 

Looks like you're treating your marriage like an employer. If someone's not happy with their job, they don't tell their boss, they go off in private and make plans to get out (and oftentimes line up a replacement..) then only serve notice when they're done. Nobody goes and has a conversation with their boss to say they're thinking of moving on, because it's a different power dynamic.

Marriage is supposed to be a more open partnership. You're not happy, you can just say you're thinking of divorce and take it from there.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I married her because I love her. I wanted to spend my life with her, making love often and having fun together. I wanted her to be the mother of my children. All I ever asked for in return was to be wanted! This isn’t something that I think is difficult – if you love someone shouldn’t you want them? Not once in our marriage did she ever initiate sex, affection, or physical contact. I feel like I’ve been taken for a bait-and-switch. I feel like I have no one to blame by myself – if I hadn’t been so insecure I never would have married her. I would have been ok being single until I found someone who truly loves me and wants me.


Reading your post what I saw over and over again was that you and your wife do not have the same sexual drive. i think your expectations of marriage was to have a sex partner. When in med school do read more on the difference between the female and male hormones. Good luck finding what makes you happy! Thinking the way you do you might be looking a while!! Would be interesting to see what your wife has to say.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Telling your wife that divorce is coming is the decent thing to do. Could be, OP, that you don't want her begging for sex. A woman who moves her hips and moans can be very pursuasive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

Ok I never read long post but I couldn't stop reading yours for the similarities. What the heck is it with some women that they completely change after the wedding???? I think you're being too hard on yourself. Sounds like you really tried to work on this (as I did) but like you said, it has to be a two-way street.

And I completely disagree with those that said it wasn't her fault. Maybe not completely, but certainly she bears the burden of it.

Don't beat yourself up. Get the divorce and move on. Her loss.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

OP, good for you. It really just sounds like your wife has placed you in one of those situations where you really are stuck - you can't grow in a lot of ways that you would expect in a marriage because she's not along for the ride. 

I'm with those that think that, without a sexual dimension, it's not really a marriage but rather an arrangement of convenience. If it will serve a purpose for a short while while you are at school, so be it.

Unlike others, I don't see a problem with you hanging around a bit, and observing her behavior while you complete school. You've told her how bad the marriage is from your POV, so she may try to turn things around and that is not a bad thing, even if you think it is too late right now. If she badly wants children, she may take the initiative to file on her own and start over somewhere else quickly. If so, good for her. Either way, she should have the right to make her decision just like you have the right to make yours, IMO.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

yellowstar said:


> Then why wait if you're so sure you're done? If you still care about her as a person, serve the papers and move on. Why keep her still thinking maybe there is some hope...


*" I also can’t wait because I’ll finally be able to divorce her (right now I don’t have the time or financial capability of doing it)."*

This is why he is waiting - he needs her support.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

BeachGuy said:


> Ok I never read long post but I couldn't stop reading yours for the similarities. What the heck is it with some women that they completely change after the wedding???? I think you're being too hard on yourself. Sounds like you really tried to work on this (as I did) but like you said, it has to be a two-way street.
> 
> And I completely disagree with those that said it wasn't her fault. Maybe not completely, but certainly she bears the burden of it.
> 
> Don't beat yourself up. Get the divorce and move on. Her loss.


I ignore them now, to me they are just stand-ins for my wife's excuse making. She has put in very little effort into our marriage and, as you said, she take the vast majority of the burden for it's failure. I put in quite a lot more into trying to make it work and I'm not willing to put in anymore. It is a sunk cost and I will not spend the rest of my life in this type of dynamic. She's shown that she is incapable of changing permanently and doing any of the heavy lifting to fix things. I'll bear the burden of not ending the marriage sooner. It was dead years ago, I was just to blind to see it.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> *" I also can’t wait because I’ll finally be able to divorce her (right now I don’t have the time or financial capability of doing it)."*
> 
> This is why he is waiting - he needs her support.


It's the other way around.

OP is going to school and working part time, which is earning him more than her and providing them both benefits.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

Acorn said:


> OP, good for you. It really just sounds like your wife has placed you in one of those situations where you really are stuck - you can't grow in a lot of ways that you would expect in a marriage because she's not along for the ride.
> 
> I'm with those that think that, without a sexual dimension, it's not really a marriage but rather an arrangement of convenience. If it will serve a purpose for a short while while you are at school, so be it.
> 
> ...


I supported her for quite a while, and I still do - I make more than she does, she's on my health insurance, I take her where she needs to go if she doesn't want to drive alone, etc. That's what the stand-in's don't understand. If she wants to divorce me, she's more than capable of going down-town and filing herself, but as you said, this marriage is too convenient for her: she has a roof over her head (my parents own it, we live in it rent free), we live a mile from her job, her parents live about half an hour away, we are able to live semi-comfortably on the small amount we make, before I went back to school we used to travel, I've done quite a bit for her and the little that I did need or ask for in return was met with grief.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> *" I also can’t wait because I’ll finally be able to divorce her (right now I don’t have the time or financial capability of doing it)."*
> 
> This is why he is waiting - he needs her support.


You didn't read my post, did you? I work part time, make about $5K more than she does and I get our health insurance benefits...I guess I should have clarified the figure more. The time is the factor above all things. If she were to file herself, I'd be 100% fine with it.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

P51Geo1980 said:


> That's what the stand-in's don't understand.


I think the opposing point of view is that, if you really love her and want to give her the best chance to succeed with childbearing, you would let her go quickly because she's up against the biological clock. There is honor in that, but I do think she's been perfectly happy putting in the bare minimum for years on end, so perhaps that can be ok for you too for three months until you graduate.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I ignore them now, to me they are just stand-ins for my wife's excuse making. She has put in very little effort into our marriage and, as you said, she take the vast majority of the burden for it's failure. I put in quite a lot more into trying to make it work and I'm not willing to put in anymore. It is a sunk cost and I will not spend the rest of my life in this type of dynamic. She's shown that she is incapable of changing permanently and doing any of the heavy lifting to fix things. I'll bear the burden of not ending the marriage sooner. It was dead years ago, I was just to blind to see it.


Sucks doesn't it? I had a friend tell me he's never known anyone who tried as hard as I did to save their marriage. Yet my wife just continues to bury her head in the sand and make no effort to keep our family together. I'm like you...I have nothing left to give and no interest in her anymore. I don't respect her anymore. Be glad y'all don't have kids to complicate things.

I'll never understand this entitlement attitude some people have. They want all the benefits with no effort.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I supported her for quite a while, and I still do - I make more than she does, she's on my health insurance, I take her where she needs to go if she doesn't want to drive alone, etc. That's what the stand-in's don't understand. If she wants to divorce me, she's more than capable of going down-town and filing herself, but as you said, this marriage is too convenient for her: she has a roof over her head (my parents own it, we live in it rent free), we live a mile from her job, her parents live about half an hour away, we are able to live semi-comfortably on the small amount we make, before I went back to school we used to travel, I've done quite a bit for her and the little that I did need or ask for in return was met with grief.


So you are being kind by not pulling the rug from under her? You are adding to the stability in her life even though you can't wait to sign the papers and get on with your own life? if you feel this way, is it possible that you are playing a daddy role to your wife?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

You guys are funny.

The guy has pretty much done everything in his power in the last 6 years to let this woman know how unhappy he is and how to to change it. He has suggested counselling etc and SHE WONT BUDGE!!

He is absolutely doing the right thing. He wants to wait to file...that's on her. She has had plenty of wake up calls and keeps messing it up. 

OP - I applaud your decision and think she had multiple chances to fix this. Now you're done. Its completely on her.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

sinnister said:


> You guys are funny.
> 
> The guy has pretty much done everything in his power in the last 6 years to let this woman know how unhappy he is and how to to change it. He has suggested counselling etc and SHE WONT BUDGE!!
> 
> ...


Thank you, I don't pay much attention to those who think they're serving a purpose by playing the Devil's Advocate. I have my wife for that purpose.

I also question those who say "I wonder what your wife has to say about you." In my mind, these posters have the same mentality as my wife and I too, wonder what their spouse or ex-spouses have to say about them. I tend to wonder how they treat(ed) their spouse/ex-spouse during the course of their marriage and if the circumstances of their divorce or marital problems weren't because of how they treated their partner. 

What a lot of these people cannot fathom is that sometimes the demise of a marriage rests either almost fully or fully on one individual. As I stated in my original post and responses to others, I have tried everything possible to fix my marriage and my wife refuses to accept there is a problem. In her mind, the marriage has no problems because most, if not all, of her needs were being met. She has never felt any need to make my needs important to her - no matter how small or easy to meet they were/are. This is not how a marriage works and she is completely selfish. She believes that the bare minimum effort on her part is enough and that I should accept this. I will no longer accept anything that is less than what I need to make me happy in a marriage. 

I refuse to take any blame for the demise of my marriage other than I should have ended it years ago. At this point in time, when I decide to end it is entirely my prerogative. If I want to end it after nursing school because it is more convenient for me in a sense of having more time and money to shop around for a lawyer or mitigator than that is entirely up to me. If she wants to serve me divorce papers sooner, so be it. But she won't - she has it too good being married to me - a roof over her head without having to pay any rent (my parents own the house we live in and have allowed us to live rent free while I'm in school), health insurance, I financially support her, I take care of all the bills (including reminding her when to pay hers), etc. 

Even though I have not told her of my plans to divorce her, there is no way that she can't see the writing on the wall - I am no longer affectionate with her; I no longer complain about her lack of physical, intellectual, or emotional intimacy; I no longer engage her in any discussion about the future or children; my interactions with her are short and simple; I've basically put into effect the 180 that is so talked about on CWI. I am bettering myself for ME, not for her - she hasn't really noticed and if she has she's too proud to say anything about it.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Wow!!!

What i get from reading this is she is not into you at all. The more you tried to show affection the more she withdrew.

I'm not saying all women would not be into you but she is not. If she was she would be much more affectionate, do more things sexually and for God's sake she would give you oral. 

If you have not been advised please read married mans sex guide book. Not so much in saving this marriage but to better yourself for the next woman.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I wish I had thrown in the towel earlier on my first marriage, too. I wish we had waited to have kids, because once you have them, this decision is much harder.

Good luck with your journey.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I wish I had thrown in the towel earlier on my first marriage, too. I wish we had waited to have kids, because once you have them, this decision is much harder.
> 
> Good luck with your journey.


Yeah. I'm really glad we don't have kids. I know she'll throw that card at me but I just can't have children with her. Things between us are already bad, kids will just make her neglect me even more (if that's even possible). 

Sometimes I have second thoughts about leaving her but I'm glad I posted this because it always reminds me of what a bad situation I'm in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

***UPDATTE***

So it's been a while since this post has had an activity so I thought I'd update everyone. I filed for divorce about two months ago. My STBXW became completely intolerable. Once she figured out that I threw in the towel, she became more emotionally withdrawn and snapped at me all the time. After a week of this I had enough and one day just went down to the court house and filed for divorce. She was extremely shocked and started begging for me to give her one last chance. In essence I told her that she'd had way too many chances, I've talked about our issues to death with her and all it ended with are empty promises on her part. No matter how many times she told me she'd change forever I told her I had no reason to trust her. I also told her that there's no way I'm spending the rest of my life with a woman who changed because I had to file divorce. I'm done. I stayed at my folks for a few days while her and her folks cleaned her stuff out of my house (we live in one of my parents' houses). I feel bad for my dog, she seems to really miss my STBXW. She hasn't asked much, I offered her $2,000 per month for half the length of the marriage when I find a nursing job and she accepted. This doesn't bother me at all, she'll need it considering she makes barely $1500 per month as a preschool teacher. Divorce should be finalized in a few more months.

As for my STBXW, she seems genuinely sorry for how she treated me and how she destroyed the marriage. I feel sorry for her. She had so many chances and just ruined them. 

On my end, I'm feeling great. After one of the girls in my class found out that I was getting divorced, she asked me out on a date. I explained my situation to her honestly and she understands what's going on in my life. I've been over my marriage for a long long time, so I've gotten over it - I just want it to be done and over with now. This new girl is pretty great - she's the complete opposite of my wife; loves to laugh, loves to joke around, is pretty light-hearted, super intelligent, and she seems to genuinely LIKE me. We're taking it slow and getting to know each other - our dates are usually fun places, nothing serious so far. We haven't done more than make out, which is fine with me. I want to get to know her better.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

Great post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

Feel sorry for your wife op. I think you are equally to blame for the demise of your marriage. On the other hand if you do pay her the money that is a good thing.

You come across to me as rather whinny(sp?) and a grudge holder e.g still upset over your engagement from 10 years ago. Not only that, in your responses to the comments posted you come across as defensive, and, all of a sudden at the end you seem to be all giddy because you are asked out by a girl in your class. 

I would say it is to soon to know if this new woman is the complete opposite of your wife. You have not lived with her, you have not married her, you have not known her for 11 years. More importantly she does not know anything of substance about you.

You want to vent on a public forum, but are less open to receiving feedback from other people. That indicates to me, as does this thread that you are more into talking than you are listening. You know, I really would love to near your wife's side of the story.

Sorry, but you strike me as selfish too.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Works.


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## amusenet (Jul 12, 2013)

How has she taken it? She'll probably be in shock for a while but I wonder if in time things will change. Or maybe you won't know because she might present a different face to you than she really feels. Anyway. Sad I guess.

I wouldn't worry too much about the dog. They're resiliant and in time will come to understand that it it might be better to have you apart and happy than together but fighting. Perhaps you can arrange weekend visits.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you have been this unhappy for so long and you feel that your wife was not doing enough then divorce make sense.

There is one thing that has bothered me from the first time I read the OP. If my husband and I went to a romantic place for our honeymoon and he spent much of that honeymoon doing solo things like scuba diving... I think I would get a very strong feeling that he was not into me. It would probably kill my feelings for him. A honeymoon is about starting your life together as a couple, not about one partner getting a chance to doing a lot of a sport they enjoy.

At least now both of you can find someone else who is more suited for you.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

amusenet said:


> How has she taken it? She'll probably be in shock for a while but I wonder if in time things will change. Or maybe you won't know because she might present a different face to you than she really feels. Anyway. Sad I guess.


She hasn't made it seem like it bothers her. This is part of the problem, she never shows much emotion. She'll have the occasional emotional outburst, but in terms of happiness and sadness, she won't show it. She's always had the attitude of "I won't give them the satisfaction of an emotional response" to anyone she's come into contact with. She never drew a line between how she treated me as a husband and how she'd treat others (i.e., she's very quick to write people off, this included me I guess).


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There is one thing that has bothered me from the first time I read the OP. If my husband and I went to a romantic place for our honeymoon and he spent much of that honeymoon doing solo things like scuba diving... I think I would get a very strong feeling that he was not into me. It would probably kill my feelings for him. A honeymoon is about starting your life together as a couple, not about one partner getting a chance to doing a lot of a sport they enjoy.


Yup, kind of like what happened to me when she decided to spend two or three hours per day on the phone with her mom instead of with me (not even exaggerating this point). Her mom bought her 10 phone cards so she could call them and gave them to her before we left. If we weren't at the beach or pool, she was on the phone. Total romance killer. After a certain point I just gave up and went to do my own thing. 

I've learned a few important lessons from this "marriage":

1. Never marry someone who wants to wait until marriage to have sex. 

2. Never marry someone who doesn't want to live with you before marriage.

3. Never marry someone who you don't share interests with and/or who isn't willing to try new things.

4. If you're a guy, look at how the mother treats the wife's father. If your a gal, look at how the father treats the mother. In my case, my STBXW is the spitting image of her mother: browbeating, hen pecking, and treats her husband like he's just a paycheck and there to do her bidding.

At least now things with this new girl are progressing quite well, albeit slowly (which is what I want at this point). We're just getting to know each other, she's pretty cool to hang out with. We've decided to be casual but exclusive for now - haven't gone past second base. STBXW saw us at the movie the other night. I got a slew of texts telling me what a jerk I am and I'm basically cheating on her (I'm not, as soon as those divorce papers were served, I was single). Whatever. If that helps her sleep at night, fine by me. She's not thrilled to be replaced by someone 10 years younger than herself.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

lancaster said:


> Feel sorry for your wife op. I think you are equally to blame for the demise of your marriage. On the other hand if you do pay her the money that is a good thing.
> 
> You come across to me as rather whinny(sp?) and a grudge holder e.g still upset over your engagement from 10 years ago. Not only that, in your responses to the comments posted you come across as defensive, and, all of a sudden at the end you seem to be all giddy because you are asked out by a girl in your class.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your opinion.

It seems like a lot of the negative responses I received are from people who are jealous that they don't have the courage or ability to pack up and leave terrible situations. I made this observation by reading through their historical posts...maybe its true, maybe it's not. But based on what they've posted in the past it strikes me as true. There's nothing noble about staying in a crappy situation where both people are obviously unhappy. 

The nice thing is at least now I get to go out with friends more and spend time with people who actually like me rather than someone who makes her disdain for me quite obvious.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

lancaster said:


> Feel sorry for your wife op. I think you are equally to blame for the demise of your marriage. On the other hand if you do pay her the money that is a good thing.
> 
> You come across to me as rather whinny(sp?) and a grudge holder e.g still upset over your engagement from 10 years ago. Not only that, in your responses to the comments posted you come across as defensive, and, all of a sudden at the end you seem to be all giddy because you are asked out by a girl in your class.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I stopped reading at post 8, then jumped to now after he questioned her emotional strength. he's great, she's needy, and we don't know WTH we're talking about because we aren't there. Oh, and the new gal is swell. Okee dokee....


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Thank you for your opinion.
> 
> It seems like a lot of the negative responses I received are from people who are jealous that they don't have the courage or ability to pack up and leave terrible situations. I made this observation by reading through their historical posts...maybe its true, maybe it's not. But based on what they've posted in the past it strikes me as true. There's nothing noble about staying in a crappy situation where both people are obviously unhappy.
> 
> The nice thing is at least now I get to go out with friends more and spend time with people who actually like me rather than someone who makes her disdain for me quite obvious.


Jealous, unlikely. In my case I have enough issues in my marriage as it is, that is why I am in counseling and here on TAM. I do believe once married it is important to exhaust all options before divorce. Hence therapy, and listening to my wife, so that I may try and understand what she perceives our problems to be.If I end up divorced it better be for more than boredom and selfishness on my part.

I do agree staying in an unhappy marriage is not a good idea, but at least in my case, I had better exhaust all plausible options before I up and quit. At least that way when I look back in a decade I could do so with minimum guilt and questioning as could my former wife. As another person who has delt/deals with self esteem issues that kind of thing is important to me.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

Wow, this guy have tried to talk to his wife over and over again, including writing an email with everything to her in hope she would care. She always promised changes but things reverted again. He tried to convince her to counselling but to no avail. What else is he supposed to do? Suck it up and hope that things will change somehow, while wasting more and more years in the process? People who accuse him of not having tried hard or that he is whinny seems crazy. Marriage is not a one way street so if his wife is not telling him what she thinks is wrong or what she really wants, and proceed to forget about his talks and needs over and over again, then of course he'd give up. And an affectionless (physical/emotional) marriage or relationship is horrible. :/

Some people really don't care enough to change or understand their partners' needs 'till the relationship dies. That's called taking things for granted. It was not an easy decision for peole like OP.

Maybe there are more things he could have tried, but then we are not all masters of marriage arts, and couples has to both dedicate to learn together than only one sided concern will not make things work.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I've learned a few important lessons from this "marriage":
> 
> 1. Never marry someone who wants to wait until marriage to have sex.
> 
> ...


1. Waiting until marriage is not a bad thing in and of itself. I think in this instance you just picked the wrong person. (Which I am sorry to hear about.)

2. Living together before marrying is NOT a guarantee of a happy marriage. People are usually on their best behavior until it's legal; they know there aren't many legal consequences (or options) if they're either dumped or decide to leave.

3. Good point. 



P51Geo1980 said:


> ... I got a slew of texts telling me what a jerk I am and I'm basically cheating on her *(I'm not, as soon as those divorce papers were served, I was single).*


Wrong. In the eyes of the law, you are a married man UNTIL that divorce is finalized. It doesn't matter whether or not you've disconnected yourself physically, emotionally, and mentally from your spouse. (And frankly, I'm also amazed your new girlfriend has so little self-respect that she would even consider dating a man whose divorce wasn't finalized (but I digress.)

OP, now that you're already dating again, you may want consider two things:

1. What if STBXW decides to fight back and slam you for every penny you've got because you've committed adultery (which, technically, you have)? (And yes, this has happened.)

2. What if STBXW decides to not grant the divorce to one-up you (which you're obviously doing to her, whether consciously or not)?

You are right; marriage is about building a partnership. From what you've said, STBXW wasn't interested in that (which I agree is not right). However, there is such a thing as taking the high road. You may want to consider doing this UNTIL your divorce is final. 

And, to be perfectly honest, you need counseling before dating anyone, whether it's casual or not. To me, you come across as an insecure, petty, defensive person who wants to one-up this woman who did all this to you. These traits will not go away or be tamed without some seriously hard work. And, I have a feeling these traits turned your STBXW off quite a bit over the years. Besides, whether you like it or not, STBXW was there with you for eleven years. She saw you at your best and worst. This new girl hasn't seen you OFF your best behavior. Remember that.

On a more positive note, I wish you the best of luck in your new career! Not many people get to do what they love for a living.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

sunvalley said:


> 1. Waiting until marriage is not a bad thing in and of itself. I think in this instance you just picked the wrong person. (Which I am sorry to hear about.)
> 
> *Waiting until marriage does not allow you to know if you are sexually compatible with your spouse. This is one of the most important aspects of marriage, along with emotional and intellectual intimacy (both of which were sorely lacking in my marriage).*
> 
> ...


To address these two points: I live in a no-fault state. Even if I was having an affair (which I'm not, no matter what you may *think*), the judge cannot take that into account. Also, my STBXW has been advised by her lawyer-cousin NOT to try to get anything more from me because as it stands I'm offering her about $600 more per month than is required by law. If she wants to fight me on the issue and get more money, I'll fight the amount and the only offer will be what is required by law. She'll also be getting it for 3.5 years - since I am in CA and the marriage is less than ten years, I'm only obligated to be spousal support for half the length of the marriage. The days of "taking him to the cleaners" are gone...at least in CA.

My STBXW would be smart to take the offer I've made her because if I really wanted to I could reduce it to the minimum allowable by the law. Her cousin, a lawyer, has advised her not to demand more than what I'm giving because it's above and beyond what is required by law and if I really wanted to I have a case to pay her less.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

lilith23 said:


> Wow, this guy have tried to talk to his wife over and over again, including writing an email with everything to her in hope she would care. She always promised changes but things reverted again. He tried to convince her to counselling but to no avail. What else is he supposed to do? Suck it up and hope that things will change somehow, while wasting more and more years in the process? People who accuse him of not having tried hard or that he is whinny seems crazy. Marriage is not a one way street so if his wife is not telling him what she thinks is wrong or what she really wants, and proceed to forget about his talks and needs over and over again, then of course he'd give up. And an affectionless (physical/emotional) marriage or relationship is horrible. :/
> 
> Some people really don't care enough to change or understand their partners' needs 'till the relationship dies. That's called taking things for granted. It was not an easy decision for peole like OP.
> 
> Maybe there are more things he could have tried, but then we are not all masters of marriage arts, and couples has to both dedicate to learn together than only one sided concern will not make things work.


Thank you. There are some people (probably most) who would rather avoid change and the positivity associated with it because they are either scared or uncomfortable with change. Some people would rather be married and miserable than single and happy (with the prospects of finding a compatible spouse). It has been my experience that very few people are capable of permanent change. I live 3 or 4 years in my marriage with my STBXW promising to change, changing for a short while, then reverting to her old ways. There were a number of cycles of this pattern and in the end I realize she was just stringing me along. What a lot of the negative posters do not realize is that not only did I set myself free to find someone who is more compatible with me, I did the same for her.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Updates??

I think you handled the situation as best as you could. The only thing I'd be concerned about is you jumping into a new relationship so quickly, no matter how slow you're taking it. But it sounds like it's going pretty well anyway.


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## bjchristian (Jul 23, 2014)

Only read the OP, so not sure if this was mentioned by others.

You insecurities allowed you to accept things when they should have been changed or when you should've left shortly after meeting her.

You had the needle at 'pleasing her' and not 'pleasing us', so to try to change it after many years is very difficult.

Sounds like she just went along for the ride b/c there we no other options or it just seemed like the 'thing to do' at that point in life.

Even if you had sex with her 3x a day your problems would still be there. It's not the act, it's that the ingredients for closeness are missing. Doesn't sound like you guys ever had it even at the beginning of the relationship.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

CA is actually one of the worst for alimony. Most start lifetime at 15+ and those are few states. CA is 10.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Updates??
> 
> I think you handled the situation as best as you could. The only thing I'd be concerned about is you jumping into a new relationship so quickly, no matter how slow you're taking it. But it sounds like it's going pretty well anyway.


Nothing really to update as of yet. I think STBXW has finally realized all the pain she caused me by neglecting me and making false promises, but it was too little too late for me when she did. She tried asking me to take her back, but understood when I told her my reasons why I won't give her another chance - she had too many and blew them and made a lot of false promises.

We are still waiting for the divorce to be finalized - should be another month to month and half. Other than that STBXW has not have much contact with me. Her brother, who I am amicable with (would not say friendly), told me that they are moving back to the East Coast as soon as the divorce is finalize - fine with me.

Things with the new girl are progressing along nicely and there is definitely a connection there. We see each other a few times a week and she's started sleeping over on weekends when neither of us has to work.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't think Sanity was being snarky at all. He's not making up "rules" either.

He was polite to the OP and said something truthful: many will not read it and it would be helpful if it were condensed.

I don't read the long ones either.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

**UPDATE**

So my thread wasn't terribly active, but I thought I would give an update. As of September 19th, the divorce is finalized. My ex agreed to what I had offered her and that was that. She did try to make one final attempt to win me back but wasn't very emotional about it. She said she would agree to counseling and finally understood that she had neglected me for the majority of our marriage. She never apologized though. I reiterated to her that I was done and that I had begged and pleaded enough times in our marriage that it made it very clear that I was unhappy. We parted and that was that, haven't heard from her since. My ex-brother-in-law texted me and told me she was going to be better off without me and that she met someone else already. I didn't respond.

Things with my gf are still going along quite nicely. She spends a few nights per week at my place and since we are both nurses and only work three days per week, we have a lot of free time to spend together. We're currently in the process of planning a trip to Sweden in April or May. She knows how I feel about marriage now (not for me anymore) and she's on the same page for now. I'm glad to put the last sorry ten years behind me and move forward with my life. Whether or not my girlfriend and I stay together long-term, I'll be happy no matter what happens.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

My ex-gf was like your ex-W, it ended up being the birth control pills she was taking that killed her sex drive.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

From your OP, it sounds like you have a view of marriage that is unacceptable to any woman that isn't high drive. 

Your OP talked about sex, intimacy, sex, more sex, etc. You said that you do things for her but she doesn't do for you.

Uh.... if your wife feels like all she is good for in your opinion is sex and intimacy, she's going to shut down sexually. Maybe I missed the part where you talked about her being your best friend, or loving her, or trying to connect with her outside the bedroom, but your emphasis was pretty clear to me.

No wonder she shut down! You just lived up to the worst male stereotype: a man only wants a woman for sex.

You ruined your first marriage. Hope you learned from your mistake.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You did the right thing. You cannot live in a sexless marriage. You and your ex are simply not compatible. Life is just too short. I don't say this casually; been married going on 35 years. First marriage for both of us; married at 22 & 24 years of age. Best wishes to your career and your life.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

P51... so glad you stuck to your guns and moved on.

As you are already discovering, there IS a much happier life once all that negativity is gone...


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

SurpriseMyself said:


> From your OP, it sounds like you have a view of marriage that is unacceptable to any woman that isn't high drive.
> 
> Your OP talked about sex, intimacy, sex, more sex, etc. You said that you do things for her but she doesn't do for you.
> 
> ...


Where's the DISLIKE button when a post like this comes along? Did it dawn on this guy's detractors that he may not have mentioned things that they feel make him a bad partner was because she didn't feel them? Six years is more than enough time to adjust in order to save a marriage.
The guy was just ten years late in doing what he did.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

hookares said:


> Where's the DISLIKE button when a post like this comes along? Did it dawn on this guy's detractors that he may not have mentioned things that they feel make him a bad partner was because she didn't feel them? Six years is more than enough time to adjust in order to save a marriage.
> The guy was just ten years late in doing what he did.


Thank you for the support. I don't really pay attention to people like that and the only reason I know what a misguided thing they wrote was because you quoted it. I saw the negativity in the first few lines and ignored it the first time.

My guess is they're either in the same situation I was in and are too afraid to leave or, more likely, they are exactly the same kind of person my ex is.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Good job sticking to it even when she tried to pull you back in. You dodged a bullet not having kids with her. Good luck


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

SurpriseMyself said:


> From your OP, it sounds like you have a view of marriage that is unacceptable to any woman that isn't high drive.
> 
> Your OP talked about sex, intimacy, sex, more sex, etc. You said that you do things for her but she doesn't do for you.
> 
> ...


your view of reality is so far off base its scary. 

since the OP is just as horny dog who only want his wife for sex, think abou this.......WHY DID SHE TRY TO GET HIM BACK? according to the OP, she made some attempts only to fall back to her old ways, but seemed more genuine when served with divorce papers.

cant see why a woman that was so trapped, unhappy, used, would want hm back. but hey, your opinion in your world is valid. EPB.......maybe someday the men in the white coats will come along and take you away for some serious counseling. you need it.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

P51Geo1980 said:


> When we got married, I told her that I only wanted a few things from her: affection and intimacy. After about six months, these went away and we just started fighting all the time.


P51 - you said this in your original post. You also used the word "sex" or a variation of that word 18x in your original post. You also used other words to describe sexual acts.

If you don't want to deal with this, of course that is your choice. But I do think you made a big mistake and you could choose to learn from it. 

Most women seek to be understood, to understand, to be connected. If she was a sexual being and then shut down 6 months into your marriage, have you ever asked yourself why? when did you make the above statement to her? I will say this again, if a woman thinks that she can be replaced by any other woman of a similar sex rank, that there's nothing special you value about her other than receiving sex and intimacy, then she's going to pull away. She just is!


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

SurpriseMyself said:


> P51 - you said this in your original post. You also used the word "sex" or a variation of that *word 18x *in your original post.


I stopped reading after that because I couldn't stop laughing.

I feel immense pity for you. You don't seem to have read my entire post at all. 

I find it hilarious that the only thing you picked up on in my post was my need for sex and the number of times I used the word "sex" or some variation of it. It shows that you have absolutely zero understanding of the situation.

Maybe you should to back and actually read the post and my responses. It's hilarious that only you and one other person came away with the twisted view of my situation that you did. But then again, I'm not really surprised. As I said before to someone else, you're either too jealous because you can't get out of the situation you're in and like to drag those of us who can down or you're exactly like my ex wife.

Divorcing my wife was the right decision - a marriage without sex isn't a marriage. People who believe that sex isn't important in a marriage are insane. I'm happier now than I've been in the last 10 years and would be if I was single as well. I've been lucky enough to find a great girl who I have awesome chemistry with and who actually understands, respects, and appreciates me. 

Sorry my new-found happiness pisses you off so much.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

*If your relationship is miserable, leave sooner rather than later - I wish I ...*

SurpriseMyself, no offense but maybe you should stop projecting.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It serves the purpose of letting her know ASAP so she can get on with her life and goal of having children before it is too late for her. It's not about her getting a chance to get you back or you having kids with her, you are done and that's fine. It's about her having the chance to move on - and her time is running out if she wants children. It does no good to keep her waiting any longer once you know you are going to file.


To add to this, she will need some time to prepare for this huge change. She may need to get a new job to earn more money, she may need to line up friends for support, a counselor, a new place to live, separating things financially, etc. There is good reason to at least let her know, especially since you have the opportunity and no reason not to tell her. What is your reason for not telling her your plans?


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I stopped reading after that because I couldn't stop laughing.
> 
> I feel immense pity for you. You don't seem to have read my entire post at all.
> 
> ...


Not sure where you read that I'm pissed off? And no need to pity me. I think your anger toward me is very telling. I'm not angry at you or projecting. I'm here offering my perspective. And by your response, I'm thinking I struck a bit of a nerve.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

SurpriseMyself said:


> Not sure where you read that I'm pissed off? And no need to pity me. I think your anger toward me is very telling. I'm not angry at you or projecting. I'm here offering my perspective. And by your response, I'm thinking I struck a bit of a nerve.


Those who are miserable try to drag others down, I won't let you drag me down. 

After reading your post about how you treat your husband with such disrespect in public and continually undermine him to your kids, yeah your responses here are laughable. At her worst my ex wasn't this disrespectful. My pity for you has only increased now and I just feel sorry for your husband that he has to deal with someone so disrespectful to him on a daily basis. I was right when I said those who are twisting my post around are like my ex....


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Updates??
> 
> *I think you handled the situation as best as you could.* The only thing I'd be concerned about is you jumping into a new relationship so quickly, no matter how slow you're taking it. *But it sounds like it's going pretty well anyway.*


What this guy said. I have no idea what the **** the naysayers are talking about :scratchhead:


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

P51Geo1980 said:


> Those who are miserable try to drag others down, I won't let you drag me down.
> 
> After reading your post about how you treat your husband with such disrespect in public and continually undermine him to your kids, yeah your responses here are laughable. At her worst my ex wasn't this disrespectful. My pity for you has only increased now and I just feel sorry for your husband that he has to deal with someone so disrespectful to him on a daily basis. I was right when I said those who are twisting my post around are like my ex....


My H has done to me exactly what your W did to you. I talk to him openly about my needs, about what we should do for our kids, and how we should work together to make things better. He changes the subject, or gets defensive, or other tactics. Typically he just avoids the topic entirely, kind of like your wife probably would if you never brought up your needs. 

I admit I am very frustrated and resentful at him for derailing us in helping our kids. Our kids both have ADHD and our son has additional issues that require intervention. He has made statements saying he thinks our kids are that way because I spoil them. So spoiling a child doesn't make them afraid to put their head underwater. It doesn't make them write like a 3 year old when they are 6. It doesn't make them have sensory processing issues. But he says nonsensical stuff like that, then later says he didn't really mean it. It is very frustrating.

So, keep in mind that you and I are in the same boat in an important regard: you and I both saw a problem and wanted to address it. The other person stalled, evaded, said they would work on things but didn't, and wasted years. 

Keep in mind, too, that by being angry about my posts, you are letting me drag you down. Rise above. I've pointed out something very valid that you probably should consider. Whether you do is up to you, but only one of us is losing their cool here.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

SurpriseMyself said:


> Keep in mind, too, that by being angry about my posts, you are letting me drag you down. Rise above. I've pointed out something very valid that you probably should consider. Whether you do is up to you, but only one of us is losing their cool here.


I don't think you're very good at reading emotions. That being said, you also seem to have a compulsive need to have the last word/prove that you're was it the right way - I suspect this is why your marriage failed.

That being said, this is the last time I respond to you. I realize now that you have way to much baggage than I want to deal with, even if it is only online.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

P51,

I have a couple observations I'd like to share after having followed your trajectory from when you first came to TAM.

You disliked your career and your marriage. In both cases, you developed a realistic plan and executed against it. 

You were MORE than fair to your ex wife. And in the end - despite her long standing ill treatment of you - you were financially generous with her. You have class. Hold your head up - because you did the absolute best you could in a bad situation. 

And you were really smart about birth control. I mean that. This situation would be very different - especially with your ex moving to east coast - if you had kids. 

I understand why you have a dim view of marriage at the moment. Anyone would. Your wife exploited your vows in an ugly way. 

That said, I believe you've learned some important lessons:
- If someone isn't really 'into you' that's generally an unsolvable problem. 

BTW: The fact that your wife wasn't into you is much more a reflection of her than you. You're active and adventurous, she's a couch potato. You wanted real intimacy - she wanted a room mate who paid most of the bills. 

You two were in Tahiti for Gods sake and she couldn't get off the phone with her mom. BTW: her mom wasn't just a nightmarish role model (in terms of how she treated your father in law) - she was a highly intrusive nightmare. Ruining your engagement surprise was bad. But disrupting your honeymoon - was a disgrace. 

- Accepting a poor partner - prevents you from finding a good partner.

As for all the hostility directed at you - it's a mystery to me. Your wife wouldn't have lasted a year with most men. 

And as for all the folks who are trying to lay 50% of this at your door. LMAO. The fact is you were desperate to end the marriage and she repeatedly asked you to give it another try. 

There are only two people who fully grasp what happened in your marriage - and they both vehemently agreed at the end that you deserved to be treated a lot better. 



QUOTE=P51Geo1980;10647418]I don't think you're very good at reading emotions. That being said, you also seem to have a compulsive need to have the last word/prove that you're was it the right way - I suspect this is why your marriage failed.

That being said, this is the last time I respond to you. I realize now that you have way to much baggage than I want to deal with, even if it is only online.[/QUOTE]


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Wow, this thread came alive again.

P51Geo,

I think you did a good job of stating your case. Your wife did not really consider you a catch – your low self esteem back then put a stamp on you. But she must have had the same issue, she didn't hold out looking for a guy who excited her.

In reality you changed and became more secure. She stagnated.

The reason that she kept promising to change but failed to follow through could be because she still always felt she was settling on a plan B guy, even though rationally you had improved yourself.

Her absolute lack of a sex drive is difficult for a man to comprehend. I wonder if she is the kind who enjoys 50 shades of gray.

You send her checks every month. But if she remarries, you're off the hook. How will you know if she does?


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

Got a tad sad reading this. You sound like you want love so bad. To be wanted. Your faith has been shot, but it can be restored. Seems like she got married alright. . .to herself.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I flew out to surprise her and when she asks what I’m doing there (this was surprise, not like “wtf are you doing here?!?”) her mom blurted out that I was there to propose – I was devastated. I had planned an entire evening for us and it was ruined by her mother. She asked if it was true and I just mumbled yes. I let her pick out the engagement ring, but gave her a budget which she pretty much ignored.
> 
> The rest of the day I was quite – I was really upset about what had happened earlier with her mother. That night we didn’t get any alone time because she told all her friends and they wanted to take us out – her mother in tow, of course. When we finally got some alone time, she asked why I was acting so down so I told her I was upset about what her mother did. She told me that I should have stopped her, but honestly who the hell expects someone to do that. I told her that I had been planning something really nice and that it was ruined and that I could never have that moment back – she told me I could still follow through with those plans. I told her I didn’t want to because it wouldn’t be the same. At this she got mad at ME, not her mom…she got mad at ME. Another red flag…


I think she got mad at you because you trashed the whole day in a sulk. Her Mom just made a comment that ended up being true which slightly spoilt the moment but you spoilt the whole day with your reaction.



> When we got married, I told her that I only wanted a few things from her: affection and intimacy.


Just what every bride dreams of hearing from her new husband, her heart must have lit up with joy.


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