# Starting to wonder if my wife is Asexaul



## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

I start discussions on here when I feel especially frustrated and this is no different.

I have read that sex can be a physical, emotional and spiritual connection of two individuals (I would basically agree with this). Another description I like is; that it is a chance to be vulnerable with each other; an opportunity to know and be know. 

Recently as I have been working on clearly expressing myself, I have also been encouraging my wife to express herself. I am coming to the conclusion that there is nothing there for my wife to express. She has not likes, wants, or desires. She is willing to go through the motions and she does enjoy it. I guess if I have a question today it is this: is it possible to have a good sex life with someone who has nothing to share?

I don't even know if I want to share my own thoughts and feeling with her because she has started using the exact phrases I use. In some ways it feels like I am training a pet with commands like, do this, say this, wear that. 

I don't know if she is Asexual or if she has somehow mananged to compartmentalize sex. I just don't get it. I read what many of the female poster her on TAM say and I get there comments and I understand them. I get what they are saying, but my wife is something else.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Was she always this way, or did she change at some point, perhaps associated with some life event? How long have you been together?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Can she express herself outside of the bedroom? Or does she struggle to express herself across the board? 

There can be a difference between being asexual and not knowing how to express oneself. She may just have no clue how to express herself, for whatever reason. If she is watching you (and maybe other people) and copying their behaviors, it could be because she is asexual and can't relate. It could be something like being on the autism spectrum. It could just be because she never learned how to express herself.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

leftfield said:


> I start discussions on here when I feel especially frustrated and this is no different.
> 
> I have read that sex can be a physical, emotional and spiritual connection of two individuals (I would basically agree with this). Another description I like is; that it is a chance to be vulnerable with each other; an opportunity to know and be know.
> 
> ...


A woman who has and enjoys sex is in NO way asexual. Just because she isnt the same as you doesn't make her asexual in anyway. Just accept and love her as she is and not how you want her to be. I just dont get why people get married to someone and then a few years later want them to change and not be the person they married.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

We have been together for 20 years.

She is very introverted and has always had difficulty expressing herself. I have been with her a long time and have figured out how to communicate with her pretty well. When it comes to sexual intimacy its not just that she struggles to express herself. She really has nothing to express.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm saying this with a few caveats, a lot of times on this forum the OP doesn't give all the info necessary (myself included) for a rounded opinion or advice from others. You said:

"I am coming to the conclusion that there is nothing there for my wife to express. She has not likes, wants, or desires. She is willing to go through the motions and she does enjoy it. I guess if I have a question today it is this: is it possible to have a good sex life with someone who has nothing to share?"

This popped out to me as it is similar to my thoughts on my own wife in the past. She liked sex, even initiated it, but the emotional aspects of it seemed absent in her as did expressions of likes or desires (in or out of the bedroom). The explanation for us is that she struggles with depression and that for her takes a toll on her expressions emotionally, her desires and wants - they were for her too exhausting to contemplate or express. If you're depressed, those are big hills to climb.

As I said, I may be extrapolating wrongly based on your info, but your second paragraph stood out and within the context of your post, there's my 2 cents...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Maybe she's a closet submissive and likes it most when, as you've said, you say things a d she repeats them, but does have sex with you regularly. 

Accept you may always need to be the aggressor, perhaps? Make it a game, lovingly, to test out how much she'll follow your commands.

She may appreciate not having any pressure to come up with her own variations and conversely adores you taking control, relieving her of any pressure. 

Relinquishing control during sex MAY BE her thing, if you can be assertive enough to to a thorough job of taking command during encounters. Many partners are that way, men and women.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Btw, any conversation that doesn't directly have to do with physical relations during sexual activities when happening is strictly forbidden. When in the moment, be ONLY in the moment, fully.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

leftfield said:


> We have been together for 20 years.
> 
> She is very introverted and has always had difficulty expressing herself. I have been with her a long time and have figured out how to communicate with her pretty well. When it comes to sexual intimacy its not just that she struggles to express herself. She really has nothing to express.


I wonder -- could she be on the spectrum? One of the techniques folks who are on the spectrum is to repeat what others say since THEY are not sure what to actually say in a given situation. She may have plenty to express and just doesn't know HOW to do that.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Btw, any conversation that doesn't directly have to do with physical relations during sexual activities when happening is strictly forbidden. When in the moment, be ONLY in the moment, fully.


Yes. I follow this all the time.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> I wonder -- could she be on the spectrum? One of the techniques folks who are on the spectrum is to repeat what others say since THEY are not sure what to actually say in a given situation. She may have plenty to express and just doesn't know HOW to do that.


I have no idea. I have never had reason to expect this.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

leftfield said:


> I start discussions on here when I feel especially frustrated and this is no different.
> 
> I have read that sex can be a physical, emotional and spiritual connection of two individuals (I would basically agree with this). Another description I like is; that it is a chance to be vulnerable with each other; an opportunity to know and be know.
> 
> ...


If she enjoys sex she's not asexual. She may just have a disconnect between sex and love as do many other people. She may just not be very connected emotionally.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

leftfield said:


> We have been together for 20 years.
> 
> She is very introverted and has always had difficulty expressing herself. I have been with her a long time and have figured out how to communicate with her pretty well. When it comes to sexual intimacy its not just that she struggles to express herself. She really has nothing to express.


So now you want her to be a different person than the one you knowingly married??? That doesn’t seem fair.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> A woman who has and enjoys sex is in NO way asexual.





DownByTheRiver said:


> If she enjoys sex she's not asexual.


I need to dispelled this myth. Asexuality is a sexual orientation, in which they are not sexually attracted to males or females. Many do indeed lack a sex drive, but many others have one. They can derive sexual pleasure from the act, and even form romantic attractions. It's hard for most people, straight gay or bi, to comprehend having romantic attraction without sexual attraction, yet no problem to understand sexual attraction without romantic attraction.



https://www.healthline.com/health/what-is-asexual#Being-asexual-means-different-things-to-different-people said:


> Sexual attraction is about finding a specific person sexually appealing and wanting to have sex with them.











What Does It Mean to Be Asexual?


The way you define your sexuality, orientation, and identity is your choice, and only you get to decide what asexual means to you.




www.healthline.com





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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

While asexuality with a lack of drive is a possibility, given some of what you wrote, I'm inclined to go with some others who said high functioning autism spectrum. However, there are plenty of other things that it could possibly be. Your best best is to seek therapy for you both as a couple. You want a doctor who can diagnosis things like, but not limited to, Asperger's. And you want to make sure they know, that you want the actual issues and are not locked onto the idea of a specific diagnosis. It might not get you the drive out of her that you want, but knowing what she has, if anything, and how to work with it could help to improve the overall situation.

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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think of asexual as people who are not interested in sex but very well may be romantically inclined and want a non-sexual partner.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There are some true asexuals in the world just as there are some hermaphrodites and albinos and those guys with two penises. 

But I think true asexuals are no more common in the wild than those other people mentioned.

A much more common scenario is that after 20 years of marriage people change, relationship change, hormonal levels change, boredom and monotony of daily life set in and many women simply lose their attraction and desire for their long term partner. 

Mother Nature designed about all organisms to be fighting for and competing for mates and did not design people to have one lifelong mate forever.

Lifelong marriage and monogamy is a manmade concept to try to keep us from killing each other every time a woman in our proximity ovulates and to provide a legally recognized means passing property and wealth down through biological generations.

It doesn’t sound like she is refusing/rejecting you and it doesn’t sound like she had ever stated that she no longer wants a sex life with you.

It sounds like she, like millions of other married women in long term marriages, submit to having sex with you to keep you in the marriage and keep you together as a couple even though she herself has no particular yearning or desire of her own to do so.

That is not asexuality. That is a million years of evolutionary mating strategy to insure her own provisioning and survival of her and her offspring.

In generations past, this was not only considered “normal” it was considered healthy and desirable. Up until maybe 50 or so years ago, actual medical school textbooks would claim females had no innate sexual desire and were only concerned with procreation and then hearth and home.

In the early half of the 20th century, women could be institutionalized in mental facilities if they had had sex with multiple men or had sexual feelings for other women etc. 

A robust libido in a woman was considered a pathological state just a few generations ago.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

As a general rule, conveying to your partner that they're just not quite right, not quite good enough for you, maybe even broken in some way, is a _fantastic_ way to shut down communication, discourage vulnerability, and kill desire. So if there's even been a hint of that from you, OP, that may actually be part of the problem - you're in a negative reinforcement loop. 

I am curious as to why after 20 years together you're _now_ wondering if you can have a good sex life with your wife? 

Has your sex life with her never been good? If it hasn't, why did you marry your wife? Were you hoping she'd eventually transform into what you wanted? 

Or is this a more recent issue? If that's the case, one wonders whether it was she who changed, or you. And why?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Rowan said:


> As a general rule, conveying to your partner that they're just not quite right, not quite good enough for you, maybe even broken in some way, is a _fantastic_ way to shut down communication, discourage vulnerability, and kill desire. So if there's even been a hint of that from you, OP, that may actually be part of the problem - you're in a negative reinforcement loop.
> All true. And we very well could be in a negative loop of some sort.
> 
> I am curious as to why after 20 years together you're _now_ wondering if you can have a good sex life with your wife?
> ...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In a way you got what you bargained for by having sexuality and sexual chemistry be a tertiary consideration for marriage. 

I’m not saying that is bad per se as you got what you wanted in the beginning. Sexual chemistry and compatibility wasn’t a big deal to you and you went into marriage with someone who also did not put a lot of emphasis on sexual chemistry and passion.

You both set aside sexual chemistry and passion for the duty and stability of home and family. 

If you are wanting to change up the game now, you may need to change partners. 

You can’t buy an hound dog and expect it to become a greyhound race dog.


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## CrazyCatz (Jan 19, 2021)

Fascinating discussion!



maquiscat said:


> I need to dispelled this myth. Asexuality is a sexual orientation, in which they are not sexually attracted to males or females. Many do indeed lack a sex drive, but many others have one. They can derive sexual pleasure from the act, and even form romantic attractions. It's hard for most people, straight gay or bi, to comprehend having romantic attraction without sexual attraction, yet no problem to understand sexual attraction without romantic attraction.


Completely agree with above quote. For several years with my ex, I identified as asexual. Basically I had zero interest in sex with him, or with anyone else. If we had sex, I could enjoy it, but I never wanted it, never looked forward to it, never anticipated it, never had any desire whatsoever. Quite honestly, I was very content with this, I didn't feel like I was lacking anything, it's just the way I was. This was a HUGE problem for our marriage, however. My ex was very sexual, and I wasn't. This wasn't just a difference in libido levels, this was a difference in true psychological and physical "needs." 
I don't think there's necessarily anything "wrong" with you, or "wrong" with her, but you might not be "right" for each other in a sexual way. 

OP: I believe that sharing sexual experiences with a partner can be a beautiful thing, but it only works if both people are equally committed to it. If she's having sex just to please you (you didn't explicitly say this, but I wonder if it may be the case), that may work for a while, but will be unsatisfying to you both in the long run. I also believe that if you are right for each other in many other ways, it may be worth accepting whatever compromises you both are willing to make in order to agree on your sexual relationship, but that can be very stressful in the long run too. Whatever you decide, good luck! Relationships can be very challenging.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It would help if you defined what it is that you want her to share. Is it before, during or after sex?

For some, if 'sharing' doesn't come naturally, it can become a distraction during sex and may, eventually, cause the partner to lose interest in sex. The fact that she mimics tells you that it does not come naturally. How important is this 'sharing' to you? You seem to indicate it is causing you to not enjoy a 'good' sex life with her.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> In a way you got what you bargained for by having sexuality and sexual chemistry be a tertiary consideration for marriage.
> 
> I’m not saying that is bad per se as you got what you wanted in the beginning. Sexual chemistry and compatibility wasn’t a big deal to you and you went into marriage with someone who also did not put a lot of emphasis on sexual chemistry and passion.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Just in case this discussion helps someone else someday let me update it with what I'm learning.

Over the last few days I have learned that my wife is not asexual. I think, I can understand why she has nothing to share with me. Basically, her sexuality contradicts her self identity. In order to handle this contradiction she puts her sexuality into a mental compartment and will only bring it own when it is needed. This way she doesn't have to think about it, or talk about it and she can safely keep it out of her life. She is willing to deny her own sexuality to maintain her concept of herself.

For someone looking at her from the outside. I have to wonder why she can't be sexual and be herself? I mean her sexuality is part of her. There seems to be some very strong fear there.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> It would help if you defined what it is that you want her to share. Is it before, during or after sex?
> 
> For some, if 'sharing' doesn't come naturally, it can become a distraction during sex and may, eventually, cause the partner to lose interest in sex. The fact that she mimics tells you that it does not come naturally. How important is this 'sharing' to you? You seem to indicate it is causing you to not enjoy a 'good' sex life with her.


It is very important for me. I have no interest in a partner who is going through the motions for me. I need to be able to connect on an emotional level. It doesn't really matter if it is before, during or after the main event. 

Let me put it this way; I want to have sexual intamacy with someone who wants that with me. If we don't want that with each other then we should move on.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

leftfield said:


> I have to wonder why she can't be sexual and be herself?


She is who she is. To want her to be different, is to desire her to be somebody she is not. Do you love her and perhaps more importantly like her? Or do you you instead pine for the idea of her being somebody she isn't?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> Recently as I have been working on clearly expressing myself, I have also been encouraging my wife to express herself. I am coming to the conclusion that there is nothing there for my wife to express. She has not likes, wants, or desires. She is willing to go through the motions and *she does enjoy it*. I guess if I have a question today it is this: is it possible to have a good sex life with someone who has nothing to share?


Forgive me if I'm seriously skipping a beat here, I'm just not understanding how your wife potentially does not have 'likes, wants, or desires' yet 'she does enjoy it'. How do you know that she enjoys sexual intimacy with you? As in, something is being expressed/shared with you to conclude there is enjoyment for her. As the saying goes, all behavior is communication.



leftfield said:


> I don't even know if I want to share my own thoughts and feeling with her because she has started using the exact phrases I use.


Unless it's ridiculously personal, are you able to share the type of phrases she is mimicking back? (or perhaps an equivalent analogy if what is shared between you might be too explicit). Also, how does she use the exact phrases? Is it that you say something, and she agrees by repeating, or is it you have mentioned something and later she weaves this into your encounters together.

Like I said, my bad if I've skipped a beat with understanding, and hence, the questions.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

At a guess, I would say your wife mimics back what you've expressed to her because she has no idea how to organically communicate to you in ways you'll accept as valid _and_ wants to make you happy. So, she repeats what you've said - because you clearly find those words acceptable and fulfilling. She's trying to tell you what you want to hear. But, it's not enough for you because you need her to express herself the way you do organically. And she can't, because she's not you and because that's not her. 

You and your wife are wired differently. Maybe that's something you can learn to be okay with - after all, it seems you were okay enough with it to marry her and stay with her for 20 years. Or, maybe you can't be okay with it any longer. But, if that's the case, you probably need to let her go and look for a partner who is wired the way you are. Allow your wife the possibility of finding someone who is accepting of her as she is. 

But, continuing to pine for what you don't have, reinforcing the message that she's not enough and/or defective in some way, trying to get her to change and be who she is not, leaving you both miserable - for _another_ 20 years - is_ not _the way to achieve the healthy, loving, sexually joyful marriage you say you want.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Personal said:


> She is who she is. To want her to be different, is to desire her to be somebody she is not. Do you love her and perhaps more importantly like her? Or do you you instead pine for the idea of her being somebody she isn't?


I agree she is who she is. I'm not looking to change her. Yes, I love her and like her. I am more than willing to let her find happiness where ever she can find it, with me or without me. 

I desire for myself to find a mutually fulfilling sex life that includes an emotional connection. I have expressed that plainly to her and what that means to me. She expresses the same desire, but she has challenges with the doing.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Rowan said:


> ....you probably need to let her go and look for a partner who is wired the way you are. Allow your wife the possibility of finding someone who is accepting of her as she is.
> 
> But, continuing to pine for what you don't have, reinforcing the message that she's not enough and/or defective in some way, trying to get her to change and be who she is not, leaving you both miserable - for _another_ 20 years - is_ not _the way to achieve the healthy, loving, sexually joyful marriage you say you want.



I have no issue letting her go and letting her find someone who better connects with her. She will do everything she can to make sure that this does not happen.

I'm not trying to change her. I am trying to understand who she is. I don't even know if I can accept what we have because I'm not sure what that is.

edited to add: I think that when you really love someone you want them to find happiness. In this situation, I believe there is someone in this world that is a better match for my wife than me. I love her enough to let her go. 

As of right now she is not willing to let me go. She thinks that there is a way for us to really connect sexually. More importantly, she does not think she will find a better match. She thinks that these same issues will arise between her and another sexual partner (Likely true). But she could possible find a relationship that is sexless and better fits her.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> Forgive me if I'm seriously skipping a beat here, I'm just not understanding how your wife potentially does not have 'likes, wants, or desires' yet 'she does enjoy it'. How do you know that she enjoys sexual intimacy with you? As in, something is being expressed/shared with you to conclude there is enjoyment for her. As the saying goes, all behavior is communication.
> *She expresses this by saying she "enjoys it". This is during our converstions away from the bedroom.*
> 
> Unless it's ridiculously personal, are you able to share the type of phrases she is mimicking back? (or perhaps an equivalent analogy if what is shared between you might be too explicit). Also, how does she use the exact phrases? Is it that you say something, and she agrees by repeating, or is it you have mentioned something and later she weaves this into your encounters together.


Most of our intimate encounters happen in the morning, because this fits our lives right now. I once mentioned that hearing something positive about the experience such as; "that was a nice way to wake up" would be make it even better. I have now heard that exact phrase 5 different times. But never heard anything else.

I now wish I could undue that, but there is no good way of accomplishing that.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

leftfield said:


> I once mentioned that hearing something positive about the experience such as; "that was a nice way to wake up" would be make it even better. I have now heard that exact phrase 5 different times. But never heard anything else.


It's sad that you felt that way. While it's also sad that you said that to your wife. Since you were also having a go at her. Instead of letting her be her, you were effectively telling her what she ought to say. Yet when she gives you exactly what you asked for, you don't like it.

Unfortunately you want her to be more expressive with you, yet coaching her on her behaviour is exactly the kind of thing that would limit her sense of safety to be more expressive with you.



> I now wish I could undue that, but there is no good way of accomplishing that.


Well of course you can't undo it, yet you can address it with her, and tell her you were wrong for implying her response to what you share is not good enough.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

leftfield said:


> *I'm not trying to change her. I am trying to understand who she is.* I don't even know if I can accept what we have because I'm not sure what that is.


Respectfully, I don't think that's true. 

I think you _do_ understand her - at least well enough to feel that she's not the way you want her to be. She is not someone who expresses themselves, sexually or emotionally, in the same way you do. This is a known fact. One that has been proven out over time, despite whatever conversations you two have had about this matter. She is as she has been. What more can there be to understand? This is her. She is not you. The way she is does not seem to work for you. 

So, continuing to try to talk her into being more expressive, attaching more emotion to sex, behaving in a way that would work for you? That is not seeking understanding. You have understanding. That is seeking to instruct her in the correct way _so she can change_. It's reinforcing to her that she should fix herself - because your way is the correct one. 

The reality is that neither of you, your wiring around sex, is any more correct or incorrect than the other's. Two people can experience a situation in very different ways without one of them being wrong. You and your wife experience, and express your experience of, sex very differently. That doesn't make either of you bad people or in any way defective or in need of fixing, but it might just mean that you two are _incompatibl_e.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Personal said:


> It's sad that you felt that way. While it's also sad that you said that to your wife. Since you were also having a go at her. Instead of letting her be her, you were effectively telling her what she ought to say. Yet when she gives you exactly what you asked for, you don't like it.
> My feelings are 'sad', thank you for that. I do not have a go at my wife. I'm willing to share that part of me with her.
> 
> Unfortunately you want her to be more expressive with you, yet coaching her on her behaviour is exactly the kind of thing that would limit her sense of safety to be more expressive with you.
> ...


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Rowan said:


> Respectfully, I don't think that's true.
> 
> I think you _do_ understand her - at least well enough to feel that she's not the way you want her to be. She is not someone who expresses themselves, sexually or emotionally, in the same way you do. This is a known fact. One that has been proven out over time, despite whatever conversations you two have had about this matter. She is as she has been. What more can there be to understand? This is her. She is not you. The way she is does not seem to work for you.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I personally agree that we are incompatable. Yet my wife wants to seek counciling.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Personal said:


> It's sad that you felt that way. While it's also sad that you said that to your wife. Since you were also having a go at her. Instead of letting her be her, you were effectively telling her what she ought to say. Yet when she gives you exactly what you asked for, you don't like it.
> 
> Unfortunately you want her to be more expressive with you, yet coaching her on her behaviour is exactly the kind of thing that would limit her sense of safety to be more expressive with you.
> 
> ...


Let me address this comment again. I understand that you are trying to get me to see things from a different perspective. And to see the things I do as an attempt to change my wife. I see your perspective. I can accept it. 

On the other hand I have to be myself. I will not hide myself any longer. My life unfolded in a way that I discovered who I am sexually later than most people. Now that I know who I am, I will express that. I will not lie or hide from the truth, I will state it clearly and plainly. The connection that comes with my wife through sex is important to me. You can tell me I'm wrong, but it will not change that for me it is important. So when that connection does not happen, I'm not just going to go through the motions. I'm not going to use my wife.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Bottom line: too much psychobabble and no enough action to accept or not accept the situation.
My divorce from the ex: 
Me (to my now ex wife) after she rejects me for sex: what's going on it's been three months, no sex, just rejections.
Wife: it's not you, it's me (********)
Me: we are divorcing have a nice life.
Me (next day): hey, how are you? (to some hot blonde I know): I want to see you tonight. Her: OK.
Me: at the hotel. It feels so good after three months of denied sex. 
marriage dissolved a few months later. Life is very short, why waste it on swimming against the current. It will just tire you, and you don't advance much. 

I don't understand why we let others to determine our fate. I see so many people in these forum, just reacting and not doing what they need to do to get out of a situation that is eating them alive. Sad.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> Now that I know who I am, I will express that. I will not lie or hide from the truth, I will state it clearly and plainly.


Alright I'm chiming in, and likely echoing the views already expressed.

The way you express yourself does not equate to how she expresses herself. So if YOU want to share with her that was a nice / sexy way to wake up, can that not just be something that you verbalize because you feel wired to do so? If she does not say this, how else would you know that she enjoyed herself? Are you aware, open, and understanding of her non-verbal cues?

She has verbally expressed that she is willing to go to counseling, and feels there is a way that you can both really connect sexually together. She is engaged with walking this path with you; even with expressing herself in YOUR way to try to meet a need for you. Please don't underestimate that.

What has inspired you to reflect on this now, after 20 years together?
And while I'm here asking questions of curiosity, why the need to hear that it was a nice way to wake up together - what does that fulfill in you?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

leftfield said:


> edited to add: I think that when you really love someone you want them to find happiness. In this situation, I believe there is someone in this world that is a better match for my wife than me. I love her enough to let her go.


I hesitated about asking this but here goes. Is there someone else that has captured your attention or even imagination?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Trying to get the OP to articulate just what he is asking for is like trying to nail jello to the wall. If he can't articulate to an anonymous forum, how is he coming across to his wife? I hope he is more forthcoming and articulate with her. She may well be scratching her head and wondering just what it is he wants.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> Alright I'm chiming in, and likely echoing the views already expressed.
> 
> The way you express yourself does not equate to how she expresses herself. So if YOU want to share with her that was a nice / sexy way to wake up, can that not just be something that you verbalize because you feel wired to do so? If she does not say this, how else would you know that she enjoyed herself? Are you aware, open, and understanding of her non-verbal cues?
> Yes we express ourselves differently. I can and have expressed my self that way. She does not express enjoyment in any recognizable way. When we are away from the bed room and it comes up she says she enjoys it. Honestly, she never used the words 'enjoy it' until I suggested it. Her own words would be something more like "sex is sex" or simply "that". I feel confident that I can read her non-verbal cues pretty well. When it comes to sex her cues indicate she is somewhere between "involved and going through the motions" depending on ones perspective.
> ...


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Trying to get the OP to articulate just what he is asking for is like trying to nail jello to the wall. If he can't articulate to an anonymous forum, how is he coming across to his wife? I hope he is more forthcoming and articulate with her. She may well be scratching her head and wondering just what it is he wants.


Interesting...

If I am going to articulate what I want from this thread it would be; Can anyone help me understand my wife?

If you are referring to what most of the posters want to discuss, it would be articulated like this: I want some kind of positive interaction in my sex life. Edit: Right now I would even be happy with her having a negative response. At least it would be something authentic.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

To answer my own post. The consensus on TAM is, its a waste of effort to try and understand my wife further. All of the information I need to know is already available. In addition, I am trying to change my wife by continuing to express myself. 

So the purpose of this thread is now complete. Thank you to those who responded.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

leftfield said:


> To answer my own post. The consensus on TAM is, its a waste of effort to try and understand my wife further. All of the information I need to know is already available. In addition, I am trying to change my wife by continuing to express myself.
> 
> So the purpose of this thread is now complete. Thank you to those who responded.



Trying to understand your wife is a worthy goal. IMHO, desiring to see change that is growth in another isn’t inherently bad; it’s just full of pitfalls.

As you know, you can spend a lifetime trying to figure someone else out. No guidance here on when it’s time to leave questions unanswered, and move on. Lots of variables, and things not known.

For me, I have felt I needed things from my wife that, after some changes in me, I no longer need. I don’t experience that all as a loss; some in fact feels like a more centered, self-sufficient maturity. Hard to describe, and maybe not relevant to you, I don’t know. But sometimes it’s possible to be more content without a change in the other, more than one might have thought possible.

Pardon my ramblings, but what I wanted to convey is if you want a different model of how people work than you might have come across so far, and how that plays out in relationships, I suggest checking out the book “You are the one you’ve been waiting for. Bringing courageous love to relationships” by Richard C. Schwartz.

Here is an excerpt:

We are primarily oriented toward getting from our partners what we need to feel good and don’t believe we can get much from ourselves. We want to transform the source of pain in the outside world rather than the source within us. That external focus—and the therapies of accommodation that subscribe to it—will only provide temporary relief at best from the inner and outer storms that gradually erode the fertile topsoil of our relationships. There is another way, and we will explore it in this book. Before we do, however, let’s further examine the problems with this accommodation premise.
The Three Projects
For reasons that will be discussed at length in the pages to come, your partner cannot succeed in making you feel good in a lasting way. For example, if you have had a hard life filled with rejection and loneliness, his love can only temporarily lift the cloud of worthlessness and self-loathing that will return whenever he is away or in another mood. If you enter the relationship expecting him to be that kind of redeemer, inevitably you will be disappointed at some point.
Our culture, and many of the relationship experts in it, have issued us faulty maps and improper tools. We’ve been told that the love we need is a buried treasure hidden in the heart of a special intimate partner. Once we find that partner, the love we crave should flow elixir-like, filling our empty spaces and healing our pain.

When that love stops flowing, even momentarily, we get scared and go to work on one of three projects. The first two of these are designed to get our partner back into that loving redeemer role. The third project is to give up on that endeavor and find alternatives.
The first, and most common, project involves directly trying to force our partner to change back. We get out the blunt saws, scalpels, or dynamite in an attempt to break through the crust surrounding her heart. We plead, criticize, demand, negotiate, seduce, withhold, and shame—all in an effort to get her to change. Most partners resist our crude attempts to perform open-heart surgery on them. They sense the implicit criticism or manipulation behind these change attempts and become defensive.
The second project is to use many of those same crude tools on ourselves. First we strive to figure out what our partner doesn’t like about us and then try to sculpt ourselves into what we think he wants, even if that is a far cry from our true nature. We use self-criticism and shame to cut out parts of our personalities or pounds off our bodies, hoping that if we please him, he will love us. Because this self-transformation project isn’t authentic— and instead is focused on manipulating our partner—it usually backfires, too.
The final project kicks in once we give up on getting the love we crave from our partner. At that point, we begin to close our heart to him and: (1) search for a different partner, (2) numb
or distract from the pain and emptiness enough to stay with the original one, or (3) numb and distract enough to live alone.
All of these are exiling projects. In the first, we try to get our partner to exile the parts of him that threaten us. In the second, we work to exile the parts of us that we think he doesn’t like. In the third, we exile the parts of us that are attached to him. As I will discuss later, whenever a relationship creates exiles, it will pay a price.
Although couples enter therapy complaining of all kinds of issues, usually it isn’t hard to discern some combination of these three projects behind their dysfunctional patterns of interaction. This is because virtually all of us carry inner vaults full of pain, shame, and emptiness, and none of us know how to deal with these emotions other than to numb or distract from them until we finally get the love of that special other person.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Leftfield, you wrote.....

*Edit: Right now I would even be happy with her having a negative response. At least it would be something authentic.*

Yes I have to agree, instead of a story which changes every time its told, I would settle for something like the following provided it is the truth even if it's brutal....

I find you disgusting and lost attraction for you even before we were married.

I still love the OM and never regained my love for you, I used to think of him when we had sex, but can no longer think of him since we recovered our marriage as it makes me feel guilty.

I can still orgasm when I masturbate but not with you

I never really liked your physical type, I like *whatever* and now that my sex drive is lower I no longer have enough excess drive to even do it once a month


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

@leftfield ...I quickly looked over your previous threads for a bit more context. It's unlikely I would have asked the previous questions based on your other topics. In one thread, both you and I expressed that meaning and words can become misconstrued in type / this format. I acknowledged to you that without body language and tone, I sometimes find this tricky, and would consider myself to be a lot more approachable in person! 

Thank you for taking the time to respond back to the questions I asked. Having read some of the interactions between you and other members across your different threads, including this one, I hope you might find some value - or at the very least - some things to consider.


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