# The age gap..



## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

I went to see my personal counselor about getting help for myself to improve. My wife and I had one last blow up and I told her I wanted a divorce. 

There are ten years difference between us which also plays a part in why I don't understand some of the reactions she has to things. My counselor says her maturity level has developed to about age 12. He said something around age 12 happened that caused her to stop developing psychologically. And there's where I find alot of the friction since I'm not used to being around 12 year olds.

I'm not trying to use this to put her down but it explains why she throws tantrums, tried to bully and intimidate, doesn't use forward thinking, VERY reactionary, doesn't use self reflection, and rather than communicate how she feels, becomes extremely passive aggressive.

I love her to death. I couldn't sign the divorce papers but men, how do I handle this? I have a bad habit of feeding into the tantrums, fight fire with fire but I'm finding out that this was never the best route. My counselor said I have to be the more disciplined one and just stfu...ask her if she wants to work on a solution but if she says no then walk away.

Does anybody else have any other coping mechanisms? I really really want us to work out.

Oh.....any and all haters on this website please refrain from leaving hater comments. This is meant to be a place that builds and supports marriages, not a place for hate trolls which is getting worse.

Thanks


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

If you do not want a divorce, I hope you have told her that. If you have not then tell her immediately.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Yeah already did that. Unsigned divorce papers got shredded and she didn't sign the lease to the apartment. We go to MC today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Well I know you asked for mens thoughts, but maybe I can add since I'm 19 years younger than my hb. I doubt your age difference has anything to do with it unless she's in her early to mid 20's. That is a very immature time for a lot of people. How old are you guys?
Since the one you control is you I'll ask you this: are you sure you aren't falling into a parent "daddy knows best" role? I think this can easily happen with a big age difference with even the most well meaning people.....I've always felt that the younger partner needed to be a strong personality to counter this, which I am and it works for us. But if I wasn't I'm sure this would've happened to us, my hb had some tendencies toward that role but I put a stop to that early on, and I'm glad because I don't think it would've been good for our marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

" My counselor says her maturity level has developed to about age 12. He said something around age 12 happened that caused her to stop developing psychologically. *And there's where I find a lot of the friction since I'm not used to being around 12 year olds"*

I am not sure what kind of counselor you are seeing but this sounds off. Unless he has really worked with her, I think he either made a general statement or you misunderstood. Is your counselor saying your wife is acting like a 12 year old? What type of counselor is he/she?


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Well I know you asked for mens thoughts, but maybe I can add since I'm 19 years younger than my hb. I doubt your age difference has anything to do with it unless she's in her early to mid 20's. That is a very immature time for a lot of people. How old are you guys?
> Since the one you control is you I'll ask you this: are you sure you aren't falling into a parent "daddy knows best" role? I think this can easily happen with a big age difference with even the most well meaning people.....I've always felt that the younger partner needed to be a strong personality to counter this, which I am and it works for us. But if I wasn't I'm sure this would've happened to us, my hb had some tendencies toward that role but I put a stop to that early on, and I'm glad because I don't think it would've been good for our marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is indeed in her early mid 20's. I am 32. I sometimes feel like I am also taking on some of the parenting roles, especially when she says "quit acting like my father" when it comes to paying bills on time....questions about situations in life and how to deal with them. Sometimes her responses to her own problem solving just stink of lack of insight immaturity.

I still think its the age gap. I'm old, hate mind games, drama, etc.......and that all stems from gaining wisdom with time.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I read some of your backstory and see that she is 23 and you are 32. ish. 

I am admittedly making some assumptions, but my guess is that she is still growing up and maturing. I really doubt that she is as passive aggressive as you indicate without you fueling the fire somehow. My guess is, along the lines of what lifeistooshort is saying, that you are in her eyes the parent in a parent child relationship.

For example, you have been on the fence about staying with her for about a year, and much of your complaints in other posts are about how immature she is with all her "high schooler crap". She probably notices that, and what's the first thing a child does when their parent gets on them too much? They rebel.

This does not excuse any of her past or future behavior, but a dynamic you really should watch out for.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

My husband is 7 years older than me, we married when I was 23 he was 30. I was more mature than people my age, but I have learned a lot from him. I still consider him my mentor. 
Maybe it is not an age gap issue and more of a personality mismatch?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I still think its the age gap. I'm old, hate mind games, drama, etc.......and that all stems from gaining wisdom with time.


You also have to wonder what a 23 year old must think of a 32 year old guy who likes to point out how he's old and has more wisdom than her.

Heck, I'm older than you and you still sound like my father. 

Maybe you guys really need to figure out a way to grow together... and that'll mean giving up a lot of your "right ways" of doing things in favor of what you decide together. 

Or, maybe you really are right about most of the stuff, and she's not the right one. If so, let her go so you both can find the right one.

Just don't sit there and try to be the "mature" one because that's a disaster.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

mablenc said:


> " My counselor says her maturity level has developed to about age 12. He said something around age 12 happened that caused her to stop developing psychologically. *And there's where I find a lot of the friction since I'm not used to being around 12 year olds"*
> 
> I am not sure what kind of counselor you are seeing but this sounds off. Unless he has really worked with her, I think he either made a general statement or you misunderstood. Is your counselor saying your wife is acting like a 12 year old? What type of counselor is he/she?


He specializes in cognitive therapy, doctorate from Texas University. He has worked in several hospitals with every range group and highly experienced. Been going to him for several years now. The majority of her behavior is the way an adolescent behaves. Her behavior was an enigma to me at first until I had the ah ha moment.

Anyway I'm not here to debate my counselor nor am I here to bash on my wife. 

I want solutions of what I can do to be more disciplined when she goes into a fit of rage over a mole hill. I cannot control her but I can control myself and we have a habit of breaking out the big guns first thing. 

I need to be more disciplined with not letting it get to me when she's stomping around the house, slamming doors, being snippy.....etc. 

I hate fighting with her and I realize it takes two to have an argument but I suck at backing down from a fight when I NEED to learn how to.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I want solutions of what I can do to be more disciplined when she goes into a fit of rage over a mole hill. I cannot control her but *I can control myself* and we have a habit of breaking out the big guns first thing.
> 
> *I need to be more disciplined* with not letting it get to me when she's stomping around the house, slamming doors, being snippy.....etc.
> 
> I hate fighting with her and I realize it takes two to have an argument but* I suck at backing down from a fight *when I NEED to learn how to.


Your solutions are in bold.

Be a man, tell her what she's doing is not ok, tell her you won't behave like that, and walk away. If you respond to immature behavior with immature behavior as a rule, you are defining that as your dynamic and it will not change.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Anyway I'm not here to debate my counselor nor am I here to bash on my wife.


Don't be surprised when a few of us blink a couple of times at the notion of a counselor who would tell a client that he has a developmentally stunted wife who is basically stuck as a pre-teen. That DOES sound odd. You are now going to approach every source of friction in your marriage paternalistically, I would think. That would make ME behave like a twelve year old. 

So I guess that's my advice. Don't do that.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Acorn said:


> You also have to wonder what a 23 year old must think of a 32 year old guy who likes to point out how he's old and has more wisdom than her.
> 
> Heck, I'm older than you and you still sound like my father.
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about what my definition of what the right ways are, I'm talking whats normal with adult psychological development.

I own a house, excelled and steadily promoted at the job I've had for 12 years with a very well known company, run a successful business I started 9 years ago, parent my son, all while having managing a debilitating medical condition that is eating my brain one cell at a time that has no cure. 

And I did it all without a college degree.....

Yeah I'd say I'm pretty "mature" and all this was done with my "right ways."

I don't want to part ways with her. We are great together and have alot of fun. The only setback we have is when we fight, we go big or go home, even over the dumbest things.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Acorn said:


> Your solutions are in bold.
> 
> Be a man, tell her what she's doing is not ok, tell her you won't behave like that, and walk away. If you respond to immature behavior with immature behavior as a rule, you are defining that as your dynamic and it will not change.


Thank you Acorn for being the first one to provide some supportive insightful feedback. 

I cannot argue with what you say.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> My question and whole point to my original post was completely missed here.....


Then perhaps you would be willing to clarify?


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

She is not you and you are not her, you can't measure her against your life. Part of being "mature" is to realize that others are different. You knew she is younger when you married her, you need to find a way to meet middle ground. She has to be willing too.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

What attracted you to your wife initially, given that she's so obviously immature and lacking in what's "normal with adult psychological development"?

It's on you to control yourself, so stop feeding into the unhealthy dynamic in your marriage. At the same time, you were initially drawn to something about your wife. You need to figure out whether you missed the red flags (and if so, why), or whether what you dislike about her now is simply a part of what attracted you in the first place.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Rowan said:


> What attracted you to your wife initially, given that she's so obviously immature and lacking in what's "normal with adult psychological development"?
> 
> It's on you to control yourself, so stop feeding into the unhealthy dynamic in your marriage. At the same time, you were initially drawn to something about your wife. You need to figure out whether you missed the red flags (and if so, why), or whether what you dislike about her now is simply a part of what attracted you in the first place.


Could have been attracted to the crazy, the lust, you know. The immaturity is a big issue, and if you fight her on it, she just may go the other direction and act even worse like a 18-20 years old.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

If he was attracted to "the crazy", he shouldn't be surprised that "the crazy" is still part of the package. And yet he does seem surprised, somehow. :scratchhead:


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

My original question is this.....she makes a mountain out of mole hills quite frequently. Take this for example.....just last week we were in process of divorcing, we decided to work things out with some help. She hits me up about when we are going to start having kids. I would think working on a long term stable marriage is the first step before even considering dragging innocent kids into it.

We had a great evening hanging out watching movies, had sex where I go above and beyond to pleasure her, and the world was perfect. As soon as I said we need to work on the marriage first before having kids can ever be on the table.

She got up, got dressed, and gave me the cold shoulder the rest of the night. I went from being the best thing ever, to not even worth her giving me the time of day......just like that.

So i shut my mouth, said I had to run errands and i told her i love her, kissed her, and left. I didn't even put any validation into the temper tantrum.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

FWIW, I am currently dating someone 14 years younger than me. 

She can act in ways that show the age difference. She can be very emotional, throw herself into situations, and blame me and/or expect me to calm her down when something has her riled up. 

But you know what? I love her and have learned how to diffuse it. And you know what else? She admires me for it. She has told me herself. And having that passionate personalty is not always a negative. 

I can't imagine trying to "fix" her or remind her all the time how much I've accomplished. Oh my gosh would that be a bad idea, lol.

I think you have to love that part of her in some way for it to really work, that's my experience.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Rowan said:


> What attracted you to your wife initially, given that she's so obviously immature and lacking in what's "normal with adult psychological development"?
> 
> It's on you to control yourself, so stop feeding into the unhealthy dynamic in your marriage. At the same time, you were initially drawn to something about your wife. You need to figure out whether you missed the red flags (and if so, why), or whether what you dislike about her now is simply a part of what attracted you in the first place.


I also suspect she has BPD. She is very attractive and knows how to use it. She got me by being very seductive, which comes first in the different stages, to the lover phase, and we're now on the hater phase. She had me up on a pedestal and quickly knocked that over after the wedding.

Yes I did miss the red flags, they were subtle, but they were there. Small amounts of being the damsel in distress and I would take on the white knight role. She was also impulsive by taking on many risky sexual partners.

I am understanding my own flaws about what drew me to her. And now I am modifying my own beliefs so this can be turned from dysfunctional to a fulfilling marriage. 

Crazy yes. But I married crazy and she has times of normalcy, and I love that part of her.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> So i shut my mouth, said I had to run errands and i told her i love her, kissed her, and left. I didn't even put any validation into the temper tantrum.


So you told your wife that your relationship is so broken, or at least so precarious that you couldn't yet consider fathering her children.

Which might be accurate, but is certainly the equivalent of throwing a fuel/air bomb on the night. That's not a small statement. She didn't threaten to cut you, get blind stinking drunk, or file divorce papers. She was hurt and she acted hurt. Now maybe I only have the emotional range of a 12 year old too (wouldn't be the first time that's been said) but I think I would have reacted about the same were I a woman who hoped to raise a family with my husband. 

Has the conversation been had about what is required to fix the relationship before children are a consideration?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> As soon as I said we need to work on the marriage first before having kids can ever be on the table.
> 
> She got up, got dressed, and gave me the cold shoulder the rest of the night. I went from being the best thing ever, to not even worth her giving me the time of day......just like that.
> 
> So i shut my mouth, said I had to run errands and i told her i love her, kissed her, and left. I didn't even put any validation into the temper tantrum.


What happened here is you communicated your needs, she tested you, and you passed.

As long as kids is eventually on the table for you assuming you guys strengthen the marriage, you did great.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Cletus said:


> So you told your wife that your relationship is so broken, or at least so precarious that you couldn't yet consider fathering her children.


Well, you have to admit, talking about having kids within a week of being in the process of divorce is a bit optimistic on her part...


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Acorn said:


> FWIW, I am currently dating someone 14 years younger than me.
> 
> She can act in ways that show the age difference. She can be very emotional, throw herself into situations, and blame me and/or expect me to calm her down when something has her riled up.
> 
> ...


Dude......I don't put on a "Mr Accomplishment" sash when I get out of bed every morning or her to kiss. She would get turned off by that so fast, I would get nothing out of it lol

But again I agree 100% with your earlier post.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Acorn said:


> Well, you have to admit, talking about having kids within a week of being in the process of divorce is a bit optimistic on her part...


True enough, unless the possible prospect of not being able to raise a family with her husband is a big part of what's driving the conflict. No guesses here. 

And what's with this disease that's eating your brain one cell at a time? Do you have a shelf life as a potential father?


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Rowan said:


> If he was attracted to "the crazy", he shouldn't be surprised that "the crazy" is still part of the package. And yet he does seem surprised, somehow. :scratchhead:


Yes I know crazy is still there but I want to learn how to adapt to crazy. She's not all that bad when she's not blaming me for her life choices


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> So you told your wife that your relationship is so broken, or at least so precarious that you couldn't yet consider fathering her children.
> 
> Which might be accurate, but is certainly the equivalent of throwing a fuel/air bomb on the night. That's not a small statement. She didn't threaten to cut you, get blind stinking drunk, or file divorce papers. She was hurt and she acted hurt. Now maybe I only have the emotional range of a 12 year old too (wouldn't be the first time that's been said) but I think I would have reacted about the same were I a woman who hoped to raise a family with my husband.
> 
> Has the conversation been had about what is required to fix the relationship before children are a consideration?


BUT do you not see that putting kids in the middle of an untested unstable marriage would have disastrous results at the expense of the child?

Not to mention courts hate fathers so I would yet again be nailed for more child support if an exit strategy was even on the table?

We have to take things one day at a time or we'll get burnt out with stress. Besides I'm not real sure about being pressured into fatherhood again. This is my boundary of I have a right to my own reproductive rights and my decision if I'm willing to participate in my servitude to another baby mamma, when looking back the marriage has been rocky long term and NOT a good situation to even discuss kids.

I have fathered a child, I have had a judge tell me when I can and can't see my own son while paying an extravagant sum of money to my baby mama with a brand new chevy traverse. Fighting for my son was one of the worst times of my life and I'll go to any lengths to prevent that from happening again. My sperm belongs to me, and I have every right about what it does after it leaves my body.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> True enough, unless the possible prospect of not being able to raise a family with her husband is a big part of what's driving the conflict. No guesses here.
> 
> And what's with this disease that's eating your brain one cell at a time? Do you have a shelf life as a potential father?


I have MS. My immune system is killing my brain cells and spinal cord. No shelf life, its not terminal, even though I wish it was some days.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> BUT do you not see that putting kids in the middle of an untested unstable marriage would have disastrous results at the expense of the child?
> 
> Not to mention courts hate fathers so I would yet again be nailed for more child support if an exit strategy was even on the table?


I already conceded that you might be right. Being right doesn't reduce the emotional sting of the statement, and it doesn't imply that a partner wouldn't react with pain at the prospect.



> We have to take things one day at a time or we'll get burnt out with stress. Besides I'm not real sure about being pressured into fatherhood again. This is my boundary of I have a right to my own reproductive rights and my decision if I'm willing to participate in my servitude to another baby mamma, when looking back the marriage has been rocky long term and NOT a good situation to even discuss kids.


Then don't have children, by any means. But you will have to be prepared to deal with the ramifications of telling your wife that something which she evidently values very highly in a marriage is now off the table, for the indefinite future. 

I'm not unsympathetic to your position, buy you'll have to be realistic about what this means for your relationship. Your example of her reaction to the problem didn't seem even remotely out of the ordinary, given the considerable implications of what you said and implied. 

So I ask again - have you had a calm conversation about what conditions would have to be met before your considered children? Does your relationship have a goal or a checklist?


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

From what I've seen of people your wife's age, I don't think her behavior is isolated to only her. Her generation is truly the entitlement generation, they tend to think everything should be given to them RIGHTNOW! 

I think what Cletus asked above about having a calm conversation about your conditions for having children is a sound idea. She needs to be able to buy into the decisions you two will make as a couple, instead of being told what you two are going to do. Act like a husband, not like her father. A marriage involves two people who must work together for it to succeed, look to her as your partner, not your adversary. Come up with goals for your marriage together, ask for her input, because she deserves to have as much input as you do.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I have to question as to why you are married to someone who is so incompatible with you regarding maturity levels. Maybe your answers will be found by digging a little deeper. Your own growth can be obtained by breaking the cycle, but first you need to identify what it was about her and your inevitable clashes that made you want to be with her. This might sound confusing, but I think a book I've read gives great insight, "Getting the love you want", by H. Hendrix.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

I agree our maturity levels cause friction but I'm not perfect and I'm working on my expectations from her since we are different for the sake of the marriage. Right or wrong, this way I'm not nearly as shocked by some of the reactions I get from her. I can control myself and myself only, I have to learn how to cope with her flaws. She has walked off jobs bc of a bad day which really isn't an option when there's bills to pay.....just another example.....there's that lacking of forward thinking of consequences to choices....and sometimes I get extremely frustrated by it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Don't be surprised when a few of us blink a couple of times at the notion of a counselor who would tell a client that he has a developmentally stunted wife who is basically stuck as a pre-teen. That DOES sound odd.



The description would be more fitting for BPD and there are many spouses of BPD's who would welcome this level of emotional development, as the usual textbook BPD stops developing emotionally at a much younger age. 

Perhaps OP can look thru a list of BPD or other related disorders and see if he's dealing with that?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> She is indeed in her early mid 20's. I am 32. I sometimes feel like I am also taking on some of the parenting roles, especially when she says "quit acting like my father" when it comes to paying bills on time....questions about situations in life and how to deal with them. Sometimes her responses to her own problem solving just stink of lack of insight immaturity.
> 
> 
> I still think its the age gap. I'm old, hate mind games, drama, etc.......and that all stems from gaining wisdom with time.


See I think she could grow out of some of this behavior; unfortunately this is what you got by marrying someone that's still a child in many ways. I'm sure it's physically attractive but as you're finding out you end up having to deal with a child. You're not old by any means (though some people like drama and mind games at all ages so that could be a difference in personality types) but you have matured out of the 20's, and I'll guess that with your MS you don't always feel well, which further strains your patience. It's not your fault, it just is. I don't think these age differences are a good idea when someone is in their 20's; not that it can't work (it clearly does sometimes) but the odds aren't great.

I think you should focus on not being the parent; that is horrible for a marriage because nobody wants to sleep with their parents. 
Here's one of our examples that we fixed: my husband used to have a habit of handing me something important and then telling me "now be careful to put it away properly" in a very daddy sounding tone; umm, thanks dad. Not cool or attractive. Now if he has to say something he'll say "can you take care of this or do you need me to, like I'm another adult, which at almost 40 I am.

That doesn't mean you have to accept her attitude, but you do need to rethink how you deal with it. Get some more MC to learn how you can better communicate (both of you), or just think about whether you want to hang in there until she matures. That's not her fault, she's 23...you could find someone closer to your age that's already matured. And if you've decided you don't want children you really owe it to her to tell her that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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