# No idea what to do, or write, or where to write it



## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

I don't even know where to begin. I browsed the forums and my issues would fit into like 4 or 5 of them so i figured id drop it here. a mod can maybe leave it, or move it elsewhere. 

cliffs: 
my wife is heartless
i am depressed
borderline sexless marriage
lots of water under the bridge
3yr old daughter
wife wants another kid
wife threatens divorce
makes it clear divorce means i wont see my daughter

NOW how the heck can i expand this without writing a novel? 

We are mid 30's, together 18yrs but married 4yrs almost.

I am going through a lot at work, unrealistic pressure, constant threats, etc. It has tossed me into a minor depression. 

Due to this self-diagnosed depression, im usually long-faced and down most of the day at work, i go home and typically ignore my wife (i know, effed up).

Due to me ignoring her, she picks fights with me. These fights get pretty heated on both sides, and the absolute last thing im wanting to do is jump into bed with her. 

And here lies our issue ... no sex. Well, sex sometimes ... maybe 2 times last month. She claims there is no passion, and she wants to be kissed, fondled, made love to, i cant keep my hands off her, etc ... i call it the "fairy tale"

She gets frustrated, which gets me frustrated, which leads to less sex, which leads to more arguments, etc. Eventually she is giving me the "that's it im done" speech

I say she is heartless, because she will make comments that convince me she couldn't give a sh*t about me, or my feelings, or if im around. She threatens to say i am "unfit" and not let me see my daughter ... which, i don't have to tell you what that does to me inside ... and to my feelings towards her. 

It would be very helpful if you all can ask questions, but avoid telling me "go see a counselor". She agrees that i need help, but would never concede to needing it for herself. We have seen someone together in the past and it was disastrous! At the end of the hour we wanted to strangle each other, once a week. 

"so you don't want to see a counselor, you don't want to leave her, why are you posting here?".
To be honest, i don't know. I love my wife and don't want to lose her, and i love my daughter more than words can explain ... it would tear me apart to lose either of them. I don't know what else to do


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

She would also throw it in my face often how much i drank. I had a real issue with mass-consuption of alcohol. Sometimes up to a gallon a week of hard liquor. 

I have since given it up and will not drink in the house. And since i dont go out at all, i hope she can no longer hold this against me. 

Its like i have to try to find ways of taking the bullets out of her gun before she shoots them. 

I have told her for years that i know i will never see my daughter fully grow up, i know my wife will eventually leave and take her. Then a month ago i asked her what makes her think i want to have another kid, so then i can have 2 kids that i dont see grow up. 

Ill admit, i say hurtful stuff ... but its how i feel! And its such a catch22. 

She starts all this with me because im not overly intimate with her, and im not overly intimate with her because she starts all this with me. 

WHAT TO DO??


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

It repulses me to get into these fights with her because i know she refuses to reason with me, or hear anything im saying. 

Her answer is always something like "too bad, its time i start thinking about myself and my daughter" or something like that .. enforcing my thought that she could care less about me.


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

and what the hell is with the arguing style of some women?? or is it ALL????

One example, i leave a dirty tupperware in the sink. Or on the counter, whatever. unwashed. She questions me with the usual "im sick of cleaning up after you" stuff. This turns into a damn war of topics.

Can never stay on one single topic and see it through. Everything under the sun comes up!! I dont love her, i dont make love to her, i dont rip her clothes off, i sleep too much, i dont clean up after myself, i didnt paint the bathroom, on and on and on and on, until eventually "maybe we should see an attorney"

Which has my head spinning because just 15min ago this all started because i left a plastic thing unwashed next to the sink. 

How the hell do men deal with this??? And don't dare tell me "just walk away and cool down" that makes it worse, and then on top of everything i get "good do what you do best" or "go ahead and leave, dont come back" or something. 

??????????


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

Looks like i picked the wrong forum  
oh well ill just talk to myself ...

Let me get this right, OnraSR

You're at risk of losing your job
You're at risk of losing your wife
You're at risk of losing your daughter
You're told constantly you arent a man
You're told constantly how "unfit" you are
You're afraid to ever say anything, it might cause another war

I really have no idea why you are depressed! It seems like everything in life is happy happy joyjoy!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

You've got unhealthy, yet common, marriage issues. Unfortunately, they're probably not going to get better unless you both go to counseling together. Why are you not willing to do this?

At the least, pick up a book like the Love Dare and commit to it. It may not solve the root of your issues, but it will create some good habits and put you in the frame of mind to be open about changes you need to make.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

relax, you just unloaded a ton of info and expect answers right away, give people time to digest and think


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Write everything you are frustrated about like you did above.

Then write your true feelings for your wife and daughter.

Then write everything you regret about yourself and how you should've handled situations in the past.

Write it *ALL*.

Send it all in one shot to your wife and immediately stop arguing, confronting and even having long conversations with her for at least a few days.

Make sure she knows what you're doing. Don't leave the house, but don't be at each others' face either. The fog needs to clear up before any meaningful communication can begin.

It's very important you fully express yourself in the kindest, most heartfelt manner in your letters. She has to see a completely honest, caring and kind human being in your letters. That's the real you. That's who she married. You have to show your real self to her. Letters are just a start. Overtime, you both need to come out of your resentment shells and be your true selves.

Your wife is not heartless. She's full of resentments and tired. So are you. Time to be the better person and take the first positive step towards breaking the walls of resentment. Get rid of all your ego and anger. They're poison to your marriage and your daughter's life. 

Start being the kind, warm, loving person that you've been hiding from others deep inside. That person is irresistable. If your wife fails to see the real you, then you will have the comfort of knowing you've tried. Until you have shed your insecurities and toxic ego, there's no point in blaming your wife for anything. 

Be YOU. She will most likely see it and get her s*** together. 

Start writing now.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Why do you love your wife? You don't seem to show it. You aren't attracted to her, don't want to touch her, don't like the fights and are depressed. So why do you want to be married to her (apart from your daughter).

With that, some thoughts:

1. Get to a doctor to get the depression treated. 
2. Start exercising. Good for stress.
3. Good for stopping drinking. Keep it up.
4. Do stuff with your daughter and practice laughing. Be fun to be around.
5. Are you responsible around the house? I don't mean like a good little boy doing things mommy (I mean your wife) tells you to do. I mean, are you looking to see what you, as a man, need to do to keep your house in working order? If not, start doing it.
6. Quit the fighting. If she belittles or goads you, tell her that is not acceptable and walk away. Remain calm and don't raise your voice.
7. Figure out what you want your marriage to be like. Don't jsut say better, define what you want.


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why do you love your wife? You don't seem to show it. You aren't attracted to her, don't want to touch her, don't like the fights and are depressed. So why do you want to be married to her (apart from your daughter).


I appreciate any/all feedback, and i am taking it all in. 

I am absolutely attracted to her, and definitely would love to touch her, when she is not threatening to leave me, kick me out, take my daughter, or starting a fight with me over a dirty dish. 

We were together longgggggg before we had a kid. My daughter definitely adds reason to stay, but its not like if we didnt have a child id hit the road. You can imagine we have had our share of fights in an 18yr history.


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

COguy said:


> They're probably not going to get better unless you both go to counseling together. Why are you not willing to do this?


We saw a guy for a few months many years ago. What would happen is it would take about 20min for stuff to start coming out, another 20min for it to get heated, then for the remaining 20min it would be an all out screaming, blaming, pointing, accusing, game. 

Then the guy would be like "ok that's it for today, have a nice weekend and we'll pick back up next Friday!". You can imagine how the car ride was after that. 

terrible experience. I cannot believe others don't have that same type of experience.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

bad counselor


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

OnraSR said:


> We saw a guy for a few months many years ago. What would happen is it would take about 20min for stuff to start coming out, another 20min for it to get heated, then for the remaining 20min it would be an all out screaming, blaming, pointing, accusing, game.
> 
> Then the guy would be like "ok that's it for today, have a nice weekend and we'll pick back up next Friday!". You can imagine how the car ride was after that.
> 
> terrible experience. I cannot believe others don't have that same type of experience.


Definitely bad counsellor. That's how a few of our sessions started, probably took about 6 weeks for us to get started.

Counselling isn't an end all be all, but it helps you put your issues on the table and provides a mediator for expressing your views and making them heard.

However, the biggest change will come when the light bulb goes off in your brain (or your wife's, or both), and you "get it". Then all your fights will seem silly and you'll be in a place you couldn't imagine before.

Unfortunately, I don't know how or why that happens. Went off for me right about the time my wife started an EA (though I didn't know it at the time). Counselling probably helped, as did reading, and the desire to fix my marriage. Took about 3 months to undo all the bad habits from 7 years of marriage. Now we have a completely different relationship.

Fast apologies, much fewer fights, a lot more conflict resolution than just petty bickering.

It's impossible to flip someone's switch for them, they have to be at the place and ready for it. For me it happened in the first page of Love Dare, it was the night I knew my wife and I would be divorced. I told myself I was going to give it one last shot, 100% my all, and if that didn't work we would call it quits. I picked up the book that had been in my drawer for a few years, and in the first page I realized that my problem in our marriage was that I had not taken responsibility for my actions in the marriage. I was the normal one and everything wrong was my wife's fault (because she was 'crazy').

Everything changed after that. Listening, helping around the house, reading more about how to be a better husband, how to be a better man, a better father. Life sucked for those few months but it was worth it. Now we're both on the same page and it is a completely different world.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You are the man, and your wife is the woman.
Women are not interested in men who let their job get them depressed, walk around with a long face, and drink too much.

If you become more manly, stop letting the stress get to you, stop drinking, and create a pleasant aura about yourself, your wife's respect for you will change in a hurry.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Onra,

Do you know anything of your wife's childhood?


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

Hicks said:


> If you become more manly, stop letting the stress get to you, stop drinking, and create a pleasant aura about yourself, your wife's respect for you will change in a hurry.


Now you sound sort of like her: "Snap out of it already". fine coming from you, but imagine sensing that level of insensitivity coming from your life partner. 



Conrad said:


> Onra,
> 
> Do you know anything of your wife's childhood?


I do, why do you ask


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I'm just stating a fact. Women are not attracted to what I described.
Men on the other hand are visual creatures. Men and women are different.


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

Just an update. As of now things seem calm. I know from experience that our issues arent "gone" .. but i always fall for the same thing. I sense things are calm, i let my guard down, and in a week we are screaming and getting divorced again. 

our v-day was exceptional, and very costly as usual  

The big update .. last week she told me she was late so i bought a test. yup .. positive!! She is scheduled to go to Dr in a month, so we will see how its all going!


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## OnraSR (Feb 7, 2012)

OnraSR said:


> I say she is heartless, because she will make comments that convince me she couldn't give a sh*t about me, or my feelings, or if im around. She threatens to say i am "unfit" and not let me see my daughter ... which, i don't have to tell you what that does to me inside ... and to my feelings towards her.


This is my concern with her being pregnant. I really do want another child, and i really do believe we are great parents and can provide properly. 

But I have a child being held over my head already. will this become 2 children being "taken away" from me every time things get rough? 

It tears my heart every time she says it, and she knows it. She goes right for the spot that hurts


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

You guys need to get some degree of control over your relationship before bringing another child into it. This is not healthy for a child. 

Learn to pick your fights more thoughtfully. Most things aren't worth fighting over. When you do fight learn to control it and direct it toward resolution rather than bomb throwing. 

Keep the argument on point. Don't let it devolve into simply throwing out hurtful accusations. If she resorts to that don't respond in kind. control yourself and stay on subject.

Never react with your first emotion wait, breathe and give a calm logical response.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

You have a wife with an anger issue. She can not take your child away from you completely, the courts will not allow such a thing. Actually, the courts are now in favor of splitting visitation right down the middle.

Most women do not act in this manner, although some do. My mother is very bossy and controlling. I don't ever remember her using divorce threats to my dad. Neither were perfect, but they fought a lot and still do. My mother loves to yell, and treats me as I'm still a 5 year old naughty child. When I confront her, she plays the victim.

If your wife is acting this way towards you, she's got to stop or she'll ruin the marriage. I've seen women like this and the divorce is usually very messy. Your wife sounds revengeful and has a lot of self issues to deal with. The best thing to do is sit and have a quiet conversation without getting angry. Tell her exactly how you feel and how you feel she is treating you. You both sound like you have a ton of resentment toward one another.

My ex husband loved to pick fights with me, but he also used pot and was bipolar. He was verbally abusive(which your wife sounds to be), but I left. I found out he was cheating on me and left once I had solid proof. He claimed that I set him up to cheat. He was always blaming me for everything! Good luck, I hope you work things out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

OnraSR said:


> and what the hell is with the arguing style of some women?? or is it ALL????
> 
> One example, i leave a dirty tupperware in the sink. Or on the counter, whatever. unwashed. She questions me with the usual "im sick of cleaning up after you" stuff. This turns into a damn war of topics.
> 
> ...


I'll speculate here .........and likely you already see it, that it actually has nothing to do with the dirty tupperware. Okay maybe she would prefer that you clean after yourself, but, maybe it's actually about her seeing you making effort for her, thinking of her, and ultimately, loving her. Yup, all from a dirty tupperware. Ridiculous, ain't it? But it's a theory. And hopefully has merit seeing as she goes straight to mentioning that she wants you to make love to her etc.

I'm not defending her position. I'm not saying you're the bad guy here, please don't misunderstand this. I'm just trying to give you a different perspective on things in case it resonates in some way. It's almost as though in the midst of her feeling that way, she wants the "come here" grasp around her waist and take her. Your wife WANTS you. Wake up!! 

From her perspective, based on what you have written: You come home from work and ignore her. You don't show her that you desire her. You aren't sexually intimate with her. She may be feeling shut out and is craving to be close to you. But as you're not able (or rather, willing) to give that to her right now, she fast forwards to a position of defensiveness to protect herself. Would a woman who wants to make love to her man and wants him to crave her passionately really want a divorce? There's nothing "fairytale" about wanting your spouse to want you sexually and lovingly.

Obviously you also have a past with alcohol and maybe she's dealing with resentments still from that time. Some of this will be on her to handle but I think there will be some things you can action if you do want to make this work and if you are still attracted to her physically and emotionally. The catch-22 is happening because she wants you but you're shutting down then she gets annoyed and you lose attraction ....and around and around she goes, where she stops nobody knows. Except she won't always continue to want you. This will get old and your marriage is at risk. 

I'm not suggesting "snap out of it" because I know when one is in a certain mindset that's very hard to do. I do think you need to face yourself though and take a good look at your behavior in all of this and see what you can do. 

For example: does she know you're stressed to the nines with work? Maybe if she can see from your perspective a little, if you let her into that world, you give her more chance of being understanding/compassionate towards you. You let her in. Maybe letting her in, will also help you come around to letting her in sexually too.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

OnraSR said:


> I have told her for years that i know i will never see my daughter fully grow up, i know my wife will eventually leave and take her.


Why would you think/say this? .....Do YOU feel worthy of her love? Why do you think you'd want to set this up for yourself?


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