# Thoughts on what led the WS to an affair...



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

So do you think it is a bad/rocky marriage leading up to the affair the somehow that justifies someone stepping outside of the marriage?

I ask because I notice in counselling and with people who know about my situation that sometimes I feel like it is almost like H was justified seeking solace outside the marriage twice. It is not said directly but kind of hinted. Maybe it is because I am focusing on what he did and how it has hurt me so much and not at what led us down the path...I know I tend to do this at times.

I keep hearing the term..well what led him to do what he did? Then I find when that happens the focus is then always seems to be put on me and what I did or did not do. Then I feel like the weight is on me but then maybe alot of it should be...I don't know.

Or am I reading that term all wrong? I am not one to like to play the victim and do like to look at my responsibility in all of this however sometimes I feel like the blame is on me.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I should add that what brought this one today was I was talking with my sister about this and I said we noticed the change in him when he started going on SSRI's back in 2008 and she said but what led him to go on those..and I thought well probably an unhappy marriage and work stress but then after I thought so was I at fault for him choosing to go on SSRIs thus causing his emotional disconnect for me....maybe I am taking it all wrong but sometimes I feel like I am the bad guy here.


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## Hockey27 (Aug 13, 2012)

There is nothing that justifies an affair (EA or PA) in my opinion. The only area where I believe questions about what is missing from the marriage are valid is when you are looking forward at how to repair and improve upon you relationship.

In my specific case, my WS went outside the marriage for emotional comfort and it led to PA. We are reconciling because she is taking full responsibility, not blaming me, and has sworn that she will never look for comfort from another man again. While I was not emotionally available to her, and have a problem with intimacy that has been a roadblock in our marriage, I am not responsible for her breaking her vows. She accepts this, and we're moving forward. As I look ahead, I am in IC to address my intimacy issues, but nothing I did justifies an affair. Bottom line: our spouses swore to be true and they are responsible for betraying us, breaking their vows, and lying.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Did you beat him? Verbally abuse him? 

No, you didn't.

It was all his choice to have an affair! You may be responsible for some of the issues in the marriage but he is 100% responsible for the affair, NOT YOU!


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree with what you wrote. It always seems, at least with me, that there is a fine line between taking responsibility for a marriage that was not the greatest and yet at the same time not holding resentment/anger toward the fact that H chose two times to willingly chat/talk/get emotionally involved with other women.

I was not always happy in my marriage during the years but not once did I ever think about sneaking around behind his back and becoming involved with someone else.

I noticed in counselling that they never emphasis what you wrote in your last sentence...at least the two counsellers we have been to.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Did you beat him? Verbally abuse him?
> 
> No, you didn't.
> 
> It was all his choice to have an affair! You may be responsible for some of the issues in the marriage but he is 100% responsible for the affair, NOT YOU!


I agree...but why is that at times I feel that the blame is put alot on me. I have said to him was I that bad of a wife and he says no it was my own ego and my own selfishness yet in counselling it never comes out this way. The focus is always put back towards me again and again...I know what I am responsibile for in regards to our marital issues but does he not have any responsibility for those as well?

Part of it is with our families my H is so well liked and is considered a really nice great guy so I think that the impression is wow he must have been really pushed in order to hook up with someone else. So many times I have taken the full blame internally for what happened and have told myself you should have done this or you should not have done that, etc. etc.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I know the first counseller we went to last fall after I discovered H's 2011 EA...the focus was put off of what he did and what led up to it..however I did not know at the time that H had another EA back in 2009. I only discovered this in the last month or so.

Now I feel that he lied to both me and the counsellor because he knew that he had another EA prior but did not say anything. He kept saying that he had never done anything like this before which was a lie...so it kind of bugs me that the focus of counselling last fall was then on me and what I could have done to be a better wife.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

Here's the scary thing -- you don't control this. Here's the good thing -- you don't control this. Here's the bad thing -- you don't control this.

It's really, really common for a betrayed spouse to look at themselves and ask -- what did I do to make them cheat?

Because, wow, if you can solve that one, you can FIX it. I'll just tweak this and this about my marriage. I'll overhaul this! I'll obliterate that! And while I'm at it, I'll lose ten pounds and get better at blow jobs. 

It's much scarier to realize -- you don't have control over other people. You don't control their terrible choices. That makes you feel helpless. Vulnerable. Afraid. 

But if you blame yourself, some of those feelings go away temporarily. If you just throw yourself on that grenada (I was a bad spouse!), you can stop them from doing hurtful things.

It doesn't work. It doesn't even work if it's true (say, for argument's sake that you suck at being a spouse). If that were true, they had many, many choices other than an affair. Marriage counseling. Divorce lawyer. Taking up scrapbooking. Anything really. 

Cheating was not the answer. Cheating is about ENTITLEMENT.

He cheats because he can. Because he values ego kibbles above your well-being and the commitment he made to you. 

The whole -- what did I do? -- phase, I call Untangling the Skein of F*ckupedness. http://chumplady.com/2012/06/untangling-the-skein-of-f*ckupedness/

To get that link to work -- you have to spell out F*ck. Can't type it here because of filters!

You can't untangle it. You only get to control you. You should be a better you, for YOU. Not because he demands it, or blameshift his crap decisions to you. This is not yours to own. And it's not equivalent. 

Please don't blame yourself.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

chumplady said:


> Here's the scary thing -- you don't control this. Here's the good thing -- you don't control this. Here's the bad thing -- you don't control this.
> 
> It's really, really common for a betrayed spouse to look at themselves and ask -- what did I do to make them cheat?
> 
> ...


Thank you...your post means alot to me.

I know that sometimes I feel like I carry the weight of what he did on me. That somehow I am to blame for leading him to his EA's. Part of it is that H likes to bring up all the time about what I did and what I did not do during the marriage..I know why he does it so that the blame gets deflected off of him and puts back on me. I guess it makes him feel less terrible for causing someone so much pain.

This is so confusing to me because I keep going between anger toward him for what he did to wondering how I contributed to his actions. This sucks....


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Chump...great website by the way!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

These are two completely different issues.

1) An unhealthy marraige and how one handles it

2) Getting a personal need/void filled by decieving your spouse.

See 1) you have choice to get out of a sexless marriage or emotional abusive marriage by leaving and filling...its an honest approach and there is no deciet. Sometimes it just doesn't work, and with anyone else involved and spouse splite up to move on and fins someone else.

And now 2) is all about a personal choice on how you handle an unhealthy marriage...infact some good marriages have infidelity and the wayward is often broken with maybe some child abuse issues or even lack of boundries and/or intitlement issues. The wayward and the betrayed could easly get along fine and have no marital issues at all but the wayward choice to step out cuz its something in side of them as an individual and nothing to do with there loyal and devoted spouse.

Stay away from counselor that aren't specialized in infidelity, they often see infidelity as a by product of an unhealthy marriage and don't understand that the spacific wayward could have an affair if they were with there current spouse or some one else, they as an individual handled, choose, and lacked something that made them be decietful and corrosive not only to them selvs but to the ones closest to them.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@chuplady, that was a good post. It makes alot of sense, if the betrayed were told that the wayward was leaving before they became wayward then the future betrayed has a chance to make the changes to save the marriage, some control in a sence, but when the betrayed is left in the dark, then wayward has never given the betrayed a choice to leave the marriage or work on the marriage, something that they have control over.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

The first counsellor told us that with the state of the marriage it was highly likely that this was bound to happen that either one of us would have gone outside the marriage.

Honestly I don't think I would have..to me the deception and running around trying to cover my tracks takes up way too much energy plus I would have felt guilty about it.

It still bothers me that H did that to me twice and did not feel bad about it because in his mind he was justified because he was unhappy in his marriage. I told him the other day he needs IC so he can work on why he thought twice this was okay to do to someone else. I also told him that nice that he was able to ***** and complain about me to his honey but did he tell them my side of the story? Did he explain about stuff he has done in the marriage and maybe why at times I acted like I did? No I am pretty sure that he didn't.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Premise : There is no excuse for having an affair.

Affairs occur for various reasons. Root cause is not always evident. Often the history re-writing and blame shifting obfuscate.

Great marriages can have infidelity. We do work towards this to minimize the vulnerabilites.

While people with low character are apt to be cheaters too, having good character alone will not prevent affairs from starting. This may seem counter-intuitive.

Meeting each others needs can help vulberabilty to an affair but there is no garauntee. Plus realistically whil we can meet 80% of a persons needs 80% of the time ... maybe, so often an affair partner is a fantasy and may only be meeting 5% of some need. 

Boundaries are essential. So few folks even know what those are. Some think they have boundaries but do not have adequate boundaries for the situations they are in. 

Many people think they are immune to affairs and have no concept about EAs for example.

And that leads me the following generalization. I believe most affairs and are never caught but cause damage to marraiages. Most of these are undetected / unidentified EAs.

Typically folks who fall into EAs are not looking to cheat. This is no excuse for them, but it is important to understand how this works.

Then there are those situation when someone actually sets out to cheat. I think that this is a completely diffetent issue. 

I also believe that the following zones exist :

Inappropriateness -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating

While I believe unfaithful spouses and full blown cheaters are totally responsible for an affair I feel all too often while a BS will unintentionally enable them in the affair by not having good boundaries themselves, unwillingness to do what needs to be done, misguided sense of priorities / urgency and very often conflict avoidance. And so on.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It kind of pisses me off that MC dont address the behavior of lying and decieving, but instead address the betrayed as the cause to the lying and decieving.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

highwood said:


> It still bothers me that H did that to me twice and did not feel bad about it because in his mind he was justified because he was unhappy in his marriage. I told him the other day he needs IC so he can work on why he thought twice this was okay to do to someone else. I also told him that nice that he was able to ***** and complain about me to his honey but did he tell them my side of the story? Did he explain about stuff he has done in the marriage and maybe why at times I acted like I did? No I am pretty sure that he didn't.


This mind set your H has, leaves me to believe the next time you don't meet up to his expectation he has a right to step out of the marriage.....the way I see it he has yet to affair proof his marriage.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

It is funny because H told me before I knew about his first EA back in 2009 I only knew about the one last year...he kept saying that he was not looking for this to happen.

Now I know differently...he met his first EA back in 2009 because he posted profiles in sites such as AFF and Ash. Madision...so that was one big ****in lie right there.

Yes I agree about MC..I think they do not look enough at it and almost want to gloss over it and in my case it always seem to come back to me..that I was not a good communicator, etc. etc.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

the guy said:


> This mind set your H has, leaves me to believe the next time you don't meet up to his expectation he has a right to step out of the marriage.....the way I see it he has yet to affair proof his marriage.


I agree and do wonder about that.

All I know is that if he ever does this again..I am coming after him hard...he would like it if I protected him and didn't tell anybody about his first EA because all anybody knows of is the one from last year. No ****in way..I am telling everybody about it plus showing them his dating website profiles from 2009I have them all printed out just in case. He would be so embarrassed. I am sure his church going mother would like to see his sex search profile online.

I will not protect him if I find out he is doing this **** again.
Sorry if I sound so angry I am just having one of those days again...sigh!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm scared for you girl!

No exposure, no consequences = repeat offender.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

highwood said:


> So do you think it is a bad/rocky marriage leading up to the affair the somehow that justifies someone stepping outside of the marriage?
> 
> I ask because I notice in counselling and with people who know about my situation that sometimes I feel like it is almost like H was justified seeking solace outside the marriage twice. It is not said directly but kind of hinted. Maybe it is because I am focusing on what he did and how it has hurt me so much and not at what led us down the path...I know I tend to do this at times.
> 
> ...


No get a different councilor. You are at fault for the problems in a marriage before an A starts. Just because your WS didn't bang the AP for six months doesn't mean that the AP was sabotaging the marriage. As soon as your WS got attach to the AP, you are being compared. The AP is giving them 100% of their attention. Listening, communicating, and establishing an emotional bond. So while they are sneaking around, flirting, talking, getting comfortable with the idea of physically or emotionally betraying their spouse. You ,the loyal spouse, gets ignored. 
It means that the marriage is compromised by outside forces and you are not at fault. How can you communicate with a Wayward spouse if they spend their free time sneaking around talking to their AP. Sure they might pretend to listen to you or follow along for awhile or just keep tabs on ways they can get you to shut up and back off so they can get back to the Affair Partner. 
Once the Affair starts any pre affair marital problems stop being worked on. All peri-affair problems are going to be directly or indirectly related to the A. Post- A you now have to deal with the Affair fallout, revisit the pre-marriage problems, one partner dealing with guilt, one dealing with betrayal and jealousy, and of course trying to find a good 3rd party(councilor) that isn't biased cause he/she is cheating or being cheated on, or believes in some new age bull cause their parents were hippies and they think frued was onto something.

Anyway needless to say the second the words turn into " the reason I had an affair was because you ________" Well then that's where you stop them and say screw you I kept my gentialia in my pants, or I kept my legs closed. "i was frustrated with the way things were in our marriage. The Affair Partner was there when I didn't feel like I could come to you, because I realize that I felt trapped, or it was exciting and I felt bored."

The reason anyone cheats is an I problem not a you problem. 
If you see your councilor even hinting at this find a new councilor. The only reason I could see someone having and affair and the loyal spouse has a hand in it. Is if there is abuse. Why??? Because if you are abusing your partner you don't deserve to be with them in the first place. Eventually someone is going to come along and figure out your spouse is being abused. You're in big trouble if the guy that finds out is a single lonely white knight. 
Granted an Affair is still not the best way to handle things but your a gutless fool and don't deserve one ounce of sentiment. I just won't feel bad if you get cheated on and divorced because you were abusing your spouse and he/she finally had enough. 
Anyway sorry for the rant but that's just my two cents.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

highwood said:


> The first counsellor told us that with the state of the marriage it was highly likely that this was bound to happen that either one of us would have gone outside the marriage.
> 
> Honestly I don't think I would have..to me the deception and running around trying to cover my tracks takes up way too much energy plus I would have felt guilty about it.
> 
> It still bothers me that H did that to me twice and did not feel bad about it because in his mind he was justified because he was unhappy in his marriage. I told him the other day he needs IC so he can work on why he thought twice this was okay to do to someone else. I also told him that nice that he was able to ***** and complain about me to his honey but did he tell them my side of the story? Did he explain about stuff he has done in the marriage and maybe why at times I acted like I did? No I am pretty sure that he didn't.


I think the counselor was saying that your marriage was highly vulnerable to an affair. Whether that was right or wrong. I agree with the pragmatic assessment. 

Have you read His Needs Her Needs? My wife and I give this as a Wedding gift. It is best done as a couple and also includes the setting of boundaries.

I am at odds with your husbands values. I understand that a situation could exist where a spouse feels abused or neglected or whatever. But I see no justification for an affair. Either work on your marriage or move on.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

There was exposure in April...that is what got him out of the fog. Our son was told and this devestated H. I am just saying that to date I have not told anyone about his first EA back in 2009. Everyone though knows about the one from last year.

H was highly embarrassed about everybody knowing.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Frick this is probably the hardest thing I have been thru emotionally. It is such a fine line between not being angry over what H did and trying to be loving toward him. Almost like walking a tightrope!


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

..as well as trying to look at my issues leading up to it and working on those as well. I am so envious of marriages that do not have this crap to deal with.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> There is a tendency to blame the BS especially when they are female. It's always about you not "meeting his needs". Really nice guys have their ego problems too, and sometimes they don't let you in on what they are thinking, or what their "needs" are. Often their "need" is to make a conquest with a strange woman, not because of anything you did or did not do, but because they want to. I did not put a gun to my H's head, he did not tell me what was going on with him, and I had no input what-so-ever in his choice to cheat. In your H's case, neither did you!


Very true! I am realizing that more and more. I can see more and more why alot of people choose to walk away from this. Sometimes I think starting over fresh with someone else is so appealing. Sometimes I wonder now if there is too much baggage and too much damage.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Marriage's do have crap in them, its the choice the wayward makes that brings infidelity into it.

I'm curous, back in '07-'08 how often did your H tell you you had communication issues and you needed to address them for him to stay in the marriage?


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

the guy said:


> Marriage's do have crap in them, its the choice the wayward makes that brings infidelity into it.
> 
> I'm curous, back in '07-'08 how often did your H tell you you had communication issues and you needed to address them for him to stay in the marriage?


I sensed some pulling back from me in certain ways...however my fault is that I did not address this with him. Understand too that he started SSRI's around that time..and now from research this medication tends to emotionally numb a person and often makes them feel as if they are losing interest in their partner sexually/emotionally, etc. 

He went on the SSRIs as he claimed because he told the dr. he was stressed about work ,etc. so the dr. put him on these pills.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

My fault to me lies in the fact that I did not question him as to why he was pulling away from me. I just let it go. My mistake...


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

In hindsight, my fault lies in the fact that maybe I was too comfortable in a stale marriage and H was not comfortable and wanted more. I guess hindsight is 50/50 and obviously years ago I would have made changes then his unhappiness and EA's might not have happened.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

highwood said:


> So do you think it is a bad/rocky marriage leading up to the affair the somehow that justifies someone stepping outside of the marriage?
> 
> I ask because I notice in counselling and with people who know about my situation that sometimes I feel like it is almost like H was justified seeking solace outside the marriage twice. It is not said directly but kind of hinted. Maybe it is because I am focusing on what he did and how it has hurt me so much and not at what led us down the path...I know I tend to do this at times.
> 
> ...


Some people think the loyal spouse must own some of the blame. Well, not sure that's true.

A WS can go mad, maybe like when a vicar suddenly shoplifts some chocolate bars that he doesn't even particularly like the taste of? I mean, someone might blame the shopkeeper for leaving them on display, but nobody with any sense, that is...


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

If a bad/rocky marriage justifies infidelity then I think that all of us BS's have a pretty darn good reason for having our own affairs. Do you suppose the counsellors that blame the BS would then turn around and blame the WS if the BS had an affair? :scratchhead: 

Because I'm thinking that if marriage problems justify the A then I'd say we've got a whole lot more problems now thanks to the A so let's really get this party started. I think that's what I'd say to one of those blame the BS type counsellors. "Guess it's my turn now, Mr. PhD."

Anyway...

My H said our bad marriage/lack of sex/lack of intimacy was the justification he used prior to the A but that entitled thinking was wrong and unfair. He claims this all hit him before D-day because he started reading and this realization is also why he got himself into counselling before D-day (although at the time I had no clue as to why...) That said, in the weeks following D-day during some of what we discussed made me wonder if he still blamed me on some level for his A.

I recall him explaining to me that yes, our marriage was bad and we both contributed to the problems, but he still loved me and wanted to have sex with me. He said in his opinion I withdrew from him first - rarely showed him affection or touched him and didn't want to have sex with him. All true. I was contemplating divorce. However, I spoke to him about why I felt withdrawn and he chose NOT to deal with those issues but instead put all the blame on me for our problems. So yes, I rejected him sexually. But he rejected me emotionally. We are both to blame for our rocky marriage.

The affair? All on him.

During our talks though, when things would get heated, he would often blurt out, "It would have never happened if you hadn't rejected me sexually. I always just wanted to be with you!"

I finally said, "Well okay since you slept with someone else, guess it's my turn then if you want to play tit for tat."

Besides, if he truly just wanted me, then he would have done everything and anything to make sure that it was me, instead of giving up.

But he was selfish and immature and he wanted easy, or to punish me, or to start over with someone who was kissing his a$$. And he certainly didn't want to own his issues.


However...

Ironically, the bad marriage and our issues leading up to the A what is keeping me in R. Because I know that if we had a good marriage and we were having sex, I would have gone straight to D after D-day. I wouldn't have had anything that I could wrap my head or heart around forgiving if things had been good.

He made poor decisions during a difficult time. Excusable? Nope. Forgivable? Maybe.

I don't take any of the blame but on some level, I can understand what led him down the wrong path.

So a bad marriage as justification for an A? No. But without understanding where we both went wrong then I'd just be dealing with a selfish permanently damaged person with no hope for recovery.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife had an affair, and I, due to a combination of feelings of low self-worth and self-medication with alcohol, had what I now realise was a revenge affair.

Who was to blame for my affair? *Me.*


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

highwood said:


> Frick this is probably the hardest thing I have been thru emotionally. It is such a fine line between not being angry over what H did and trying to be loving toward him. Almost like walking a tightrope!


God, that is so true.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Hey HW- how did you find out about his EA in '09????


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> I have often thought that it would have been much easier if I had moved on. I stayed because my H was adamant that he wanted the Marriage and was willing to work on it. He just hasn't been real clear about what constituted "working on it". A lot of men think, that because they are still with you and bringing home a paycheck and no longer cheating that they are working on it. Up tell recently my H continued to excuse himself on this or that count for what he chose to do. He continued to blame me for issues he'd never discussed with me. It has been very difficult. It is hard to reinvest in a person who is unwilling to own their own choices. If my H had done this twice, I'm not sure I could have had the will to put in the effort. My heart goes out to you.


Oh yeah, if my W has another EA or rekindles the EA with her AP, I am out. There is no 3rd chance. In general, I believe in 2nd chances but not 3rd. 

About 4 months after my wife's EA, she began communicating a little more with this guy acquaintance of hers. Innocent stuff. But one time she was in the passenger seat of my car while I was driving, and she was having a texting convo with him, and I said, "You've been texting with XXX a lot more lately." She knew what I meant, and said, "Great, so now I can't ever talk to anyone if they happen to be male?" 

I said, "You barely know this person, and now your texting back and forth, and I don't like it."

She stopped. It really was nothing, but I was setting a boundary right then to not let any doors begin to open, at all. Only hard boundaries work. Otherwise, with the technological communication tools we all have, it's just to easy for everything to fall into a dangerous gray area.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Hey HW- how did you find out about his EA in '09????


Back in June...I managed to get onto the other email he had that I knew about..and I noticed in the profile that he had set it up in June 2009. I also noticed in his safe sender list that all of these emails from various sex search/ash. mad., etc. etc. as well as some emails with someones name. When I confronted him about this one name at the time he said it was just someone from one of those stupid sites....so acting on a hunch I obtained from our cell phone provider all the airtimes detail from July 2009 until about a year later. I am the account holder of our phones so was able to do this.

I noticed one number that stood out..alot of phone calls incoming and outgoing..he admitted to me that it was her. I noticed that the phone calls were long calls..some up to 2 hours long. THat pissed me off because this was not just random people on these sites it was one in particular who he gave her his cell phone number. He inissits he did not meet with her ever...as I know he was still having his sexual issue back then I believe it.

THe calls were heavy especially in August thru until December 2009..then began to peter out..with no calls at all from that number from April 2010 onward to present.

He said she was in an abusive relationship and needed someone to vent to...whatever. Of course the tears came up as well....how much he ****ed up, etc. etc. etc.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Understand that he is in the dog house...I am not someone that is idly sitting here passively and hoping he is being good. I am constantly checking, etc. He knows this and is 100% open to it...he also is made aware that my checking things will continue for many many years and as he is sticking around he is obviously okay with it. He knows that this is what he created and now he has to live with the consequences...

The strange thing is if I had paid attention to the cell phone bills years ago I would have picked up on this however I trusted him 110% and had no reason to doubt him. That makes me mad too that I missed this....in one month he even had 300 texts sent/received from his phone. I didn't even pick up on that..frick what an idiot I am.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

> he posted profiles in sites such as AFF and Ash. Madision.


Yeah, you need to rethink that this is only an EA. Cheaters lie. Men don't post profiles on adultery websites and then spend hours and hours and hours on the phone with women they aren't hooking up with for sex. I'm sorry.

His "depression" and the fact that you sensed things were off in 2008-09, his withdrawal, are indications that his energy was spent OUTSIDE the relationship, having affairs. Even his sexual problem (whatever that was. ED?) Again, sorry, if he wasn't having sex with you, it probably means he was getting it elsewhere. A "problem" is a convenient excuse. Also, sorry, TMI, but if he can't get it up for you and was having issues then, it could mean that he was in an affair and needed the illicitness and thrill to have sex -- and may have even felt guilting "cheating" on the OW. This happens.

I know. It's way messed up. I'm just saying please consider that you don't know everything about what went on, what's been going on. Also his blameshifting to you is a VERY BAD SIGN. He's not remorseful. That's affair think. 

I post this a lot here, but run a free credit check on him -- see if he has CC you are unaware of, PO boxes, debts. He may have taken it underground. He may have quit. (I don't think so, IMO). Whatever he's doing actively or not, he's not in the proper mindset of remorse if he's putting his cheating on YOU.

Don't believe it.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

highwood said:


> Understand that he is in the dog house...I am not someone that is idly sitting here passively and hoping he is being good. I am constantly checking, etc. He knows this and is 100% open to it...he also is made aware that my checking things will continue for many many years and as he is sticking around he is obviously okay with it. He knows that this is what he created and now he has to live with the consequences...
> 
> The strange thing is if I had paid attention to the cell phone bills years ago I would have picked up on this however I trusted him 110% and had no reason to doubt him. That makes me mad too that I missed this....in one month he even had 300 texts sent/received from his phone. I didn't even pick up on that..frick what an idiot I am.


Nope not an idiot. You just trusted him. Most BS' did- thats how they get away with it. Dont take this on yourself. Hard I know but really, you did nothing wrong but trust your husband when he wasnt deserving. And you had NO way of knowing that until he did something wrong. Just like the rest of us.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> So do you think it is a bad/rocky marriage leading up to the affair the somehow that justifies someone stepping outside of the marriage?
> 
> I ask because I notice in counselling and with people who know about my situation that sometimes I feel like it is almost like H was justified seeking solace outside the marriage twice. It is not said directly but kind of hinted. Maybe it is because I am focusing on what he did and how it has hurt me so much and not at what led us down the path...I know I tend to do this at times.
> 
> ...


Highwood:

I haven't yet read the entire thread but I will soon. 

I think it is very difficult to find a good marriage counselor. Iheartlife found one. She said she look for porn addiction specialists because and usually they are very skilled and knowledgable about all types of affairs. 

It took me a long time after Dday to find out that my STBEH is a porn addict. So that never came out in counseling and I too felt as if I were being blamed almost more than he. 

I too feel that far too many counselors are all to willing to blame the BS. 

It's just so wrong, IMO. 

IMO, your husband can not have sex because of the drugs he takes so he is blaming you. 

As far as marital problems, there is no perfect person or marriage. 

Most people who cheat have unrealistic expectations of their spouses or marriage or life in general. 

One counselor told me that in his experience when he starts IC with the cheater, a majority of the time, he finds the cheater has a low self esteem issue, a need for attention, narcissism, childhood abuse or some other issue. 

The fact that your family sees your spouse as a great guy only means he is good at hiding his true persona. It may also mean he is a manipulative narcissist who knows how to charm people to get them on his side. 

My own STBEH is also like by almost everyone he meets. He hides his flaws and likes to be seen as a good person. 

I enabled this, because I never complained to anyone about him or any problem in our marriage prior to Dday, when I sought support forums and counselors to unload on. 

Even more sadly, I USED TO THINK he was a better person than I because he can be nice to people he hates. 

I can't do that, I wear my emotions on my sleave. I am an open book. I am not passive aggressive like my STBEH who told one counselor he seeths for years about something minor. 

I can't do that. I air the issues and try to clear the air by doing so. My STBEH could never do that. If we argued, he would leave the house. Nothing ever got discussed in a healthy way. 

Also, he would hide resentments over minor issues. I would address them as they happened. 

How can a spouse fix a problem if the problem is hidden and tucked away and seethed over. 

In any case, I think this is what happens with most cheaters, not all, but perhaps a majority.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Chump..I did run a CC on him about a month or so ago..nothing unexpected. Actually I handle 100% of our finances..when he gets paid it goes into a joint account so basically the guy can't spend anything unless I know about it...everything is joint account and I deal with it all.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You have heard me say before that the BS can, and should, take fault for problems in the marriage, but NOT for the choice the WS made to cheat, haven't you?

When your marriage sucks you have four choices.
1. ignore it
2. try to work on it
3. cheat
4. divorce

Your hubby CHOSE to cheat. You were in the same marriage and didn't. Take ownership of the choice you made, but NOT the one he made.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> You have heard me say before that the BS can, and should, take fault for problems in the marriage, but NOT for the choice the WS made to cheat, haven't you?
> 
> When your marriage sucks you have four choices.
> 1. ignore it
> ...


Sigh, my WW did 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, then 3.

I do take responsibility for her unhappiness, but not for her choosing #3, even as patient as she was.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

I don't think anything leads to an affair. A person chooses to have an affair, and that choice is on them 100%. 

However, you are responsible for any problems that you bring into your relationship. You work it out or divorce. A person doesn't cheat when problems arise.


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

I was told for a long time he felt like we were roommates and friends instead of lovers and husband and wife.
It still does not make it right he cheated becasue he was not getting his needs meet becasue he was a corward to talk to me but not a corward to talk the the OW.


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