# At my wit's end; how long before IMAGO therapy works???



## credamdóchasgra

My husband and I fight way too much. 
It's killing me. 
We've been in imago therapy for about a month, and last weekend we went to an Imago workshop, which breathed new life into our relationship and was so healing. I felt like he finally saw and heard me, and could look inward at how his own issues contribute to our problems, and that we were FINALLY both equally invested in working on our relationship.
But 4 days later we were back to our old destructive fighting patterns and habits.
I'm going out of town for the next 2 weeks, so we are missing a week of therapy, which bothers me and sucks, because we desperately need the help in the simple matter of just getting along.
My husband can be a very difficult personality (of course, I can be a pain in the butt too). He is stubborn, sometimes only sees his own point of view, tends to be impatient and intolerant, and has a very hard time compromising, resolving conflicts and see past his own annoyance/frustration to think rationally if he is upset about something. He tends to want to walk away whenever there's an issue, and deny there's anytihng to resolve.
Today he was holding a work-related document of mine, and curving it over so it was slightly folded. I asked him to please hold it flat instead, and he refused, because he didn't beleive he was doing it any damage. To me,that wasn't the point. I got upset because I felt like he wasn't respecting a tiny little request pertaining to something of MINE. His complaint was that i should just trust him. 
Good God, if THAT'S going to put us into a day-long tizzy of a fight, how the hell are we ever going to handle something important, such as "Please honey, check the temperature of the formula before you give it to the baby"???? 
I'm at my wit's end, and am wondering how long before this therapy and "conscious couple" stuff really kicks in???
I'm trying so so so hard. 
We are newlyweds. Not ready to give up. 
Is there any hope? How long can this take???


----------



## candice912

I know it's really hard right now. I went through this with imago. Don't give up just yet, you're just getting your feet wet. I too had a breakthrough with my husband, but then he went backwards several times, times that I hoped the most it would help. Well, in total it took about six months for him to come around. By then, I didn't want to do it anymore. Shockingly, he used a couple's dialoge to find out why I didn't want to do it anymore, which I found anoying in that moment. I agreed to give it one more try if he promised not to break all the rules. It has gotten better since then. The thing is, my situation might be different than yours. I kept my promises, he didn't. In your case, if you are not biting your tongue and you are stooping to his level of immature bickering, then I will tell you that things will begin to change when you decide to stop fighting with him. You do the couple's dialog even if he doesn't. If you can't, then bite your tongue and go out for some air until you can. When does it kick in? It's not a magic pill. Imago is a tool that you both need to use to learn how to communicate in healthy ways. The next time he says something hurtful or disrespectful, say to him, "I love you so I don't want to say anything to hurt you. Don't you love me too and want us to show each other respect honey?"

Do you see the difference? Instead of fighting back, call him on his disrespectufl behavior. It has to be a question. If you say, you did this or that, then it's blaming and you will have a fight again. What I suggested above is redirecting the discussion to a positive place.


----------



## credamdóchasgra

Candice, I want to hug you or this reply! It's encouraging to hear it may take awhile but can still help. Your situation sounds like mine. It is precisely when we need the help from dialogue that it seems most impossible, more for him than for me. I will try as hard as possible to stay in a calm respectful place, and that means waiting to discuss anything remotely sensitive, until I'm sure I have him present with me. Sometimes I have to wait a hell of a lot longer than I think I can stand, 
If I'm learning nothing else, it's the importance of patience and trust...
If there's anythig else you can relate to me about imago, I'm sure it will help me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## credamdóchasgra

So thank you very much!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candice912

credamdóchasgra said:


> Candice, I want to hug you or this reply! It's encouraging to hear it may take awhile but can still help. Your situation sounds like mine. It is precisely when we need the help from dialogue that it seems most impossible, more for him than for me. I will try as hard as possible to stay in a calm respectful place, and that means waiting to discuss anything remotely sensitive, until I'm sure I have him present with me. Sometimes I have to wait a hell of a lot longer than I think I can stand,
> If I'm learning nothing else, it's the importance of patience and trust...
> If there's anythig else you can relate to me about imago, I'm sure it will help me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Waiting to talk until he is present with you sounds like a great idea. Oh boy do I know what you mean about it seeming like forever. I thought I was patient before, but I have learned a new level of patience. If you have more questions, you could send a pm. 
When you get to giving a few things a day, you will see how your husband probably was giving all along, but maybe not the ones you needed the most. You might also learn something about human nature, that you will come to expect these things and want something else that he is not doing. This is the stage that I had to look in the mirror and ask, why do we humans take for granted so much our loved ones? Why don't our brains tell us when our significant other gets up out of bed on a chilly morning and lets us stay toasty in our beds to make the coffee, why don't we see that as an act of love anymore? For me, it's because it wasn't what I needed the most from him, but we still need to realise it's an act of love from him. It will take time for him to discover what you need most. Meanwhile, he is probably feeling hurt and rejected, because you don't see the little things he does anymore. When we first start dating, if they hold the door for us at a restaurant, then we say to ourselves, oh my, what a gentleman, but now we expect it and get angry if they forget the door one time. Well, they too forget some of these little things they once did. I'll tell you what I do, I put my husband first. When first get up out of bed, I ask myself what could I do today to make my husband feel loved? If it's a busy day, then I do smaller things, like loving texts throughout the day, grab some of his favorite candy as a treat while I'm out, etc. It may sound silly, but send an email to him or write a love letter like when you were dating. In fact, when you have a really bad day, try to remember all the sweet things about him that caused you to want to marry him in the first place. 
I will tell you that because he is going to therapy with you that he does want to make it work as much as you do, he does love you and he is trying. Marriage is not easy, but it's worth it. Mine has gotten a lot easier, but that doesn't mean I sit back; I still look for new ways to show him I love him each day.


----------



## credamdóchasgra

I will do my best to take this to heart. Just an hour ago I got SO mad at him because I had told him something literally 3-4 times this morning, ("I'm free at 10 for 45 minutes, let's have breakfast), and he blew me off instead of listening to me, and it messed up our morning.") no, he wasn't busy; he was at my place of work anyway and was free, but he completely ignored me the 3 times I tried to communicate with him. Utterly rude. 
But you're right----he's done a lot of caring things I'm not seeing because they're not the ones I need most right now. 
I tried not to be reactive and critical when I expressed my frustration about this morning, but I didn't get the sense he got it---which made it worse.
To me, almost any conflict can be healed and repaired if I feel I'm understood when I bring it up to deal with it, and if I feel he can see me point of view.
But this morning, he started out defensive and told me I was being petty, and after about 15 minutes, he finally came around to say, " yes I can see why that upset you."
I should try to do what you're doing/did too.
It also helps if I look for evidence of when he does do what I wished he had done, like listen when I tell him my schedule or try to plan something. 
It was just bad timing, because lately I have felt so negative about our relationship and have wondered if it's worth trying. So every little thing is magnified.
But on the flip side, every little good thing can make a bigger difference, too---I need him to see that.
And I can do loving things for him--you know, "if you want to be loved, be a lover." as well as I can, but he doesn't always accept love and doesn't really make it clear what he wants or needs from me---except, of course, that he wants me to want less from him. 
Thanks again for relating to me. I'm sick of crying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candice912

A suiggestion: Try to say something only once and if he doesn't respond, let it go for now and discuss it later. I know, I know, you don't feel heard and neither did I. However, saying it again and again can be seen as nagging and irritating. I'm sure he heard you the first time. Yes, of course you deserve your empathy and he will learn in time. If he doesn't respond the first time, most likely it's something that he doesn't really want to do, but he doesn't want to hurt your feelings. I find men have a difficult time focusing on more than one thing at a time. If they are preoccupied with something, then they want to give you what you need, but they just can't in that moment. Perhaps in your next counseling session, you can bring up the fact that you don't feel heard or when he is in a good mood make a request for a couple's dialog. It is the perfect time to practice.
I'm sorry you had a rough morning. I've been there. I got sick of crying too. He doesn't want you to want him less. He is just stressed and you are scared that you are losing him. When I got sick of crying, I decided to focus a little more on me. Take the pressure off, find a hobby, go out with some girlfriends, or something. Give him some breathing room and you might be surprised that he will come to you. This isn't going to happen over night, so go pamper yourself, feel better, recenter.


----------



## credamdóchasgra

Sounds pretty spot on---I do come across as a nag and a pain, and di find myself repeating things: "I was so irritated that you blew me off and didn't listen." I repeated that a few times because I was still so ticked over it, and he absolutely hates it. And yes, he blew me off precisely because he was focused on something else. So accurate. 
My fear is that if I back off, he won't care at all to show me he cares, give affection, communicate, etc.
But I will try to take your suggestion: say it once. At least it's a concrete specific goal *I* can work on and control, difficult as it seems to me when he seems far away.
You've been so helpful. Thank you!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candice912

I know it's hard, but you need to have some faith right now. You have nothing to lose by trying to back off a little. He's not going to disappear. He might take some air for a few days, but he will come around to you when he doesn't feel overwhelmed. Look at it this way, if you give him some space and he does not give you this affection, you can always go back to what you're doing now. If you accept thatyour fear is just that, a fear, and your husband isn't going to stop loving you, then it will be easier for you to let him some space. After you do that, you might be surprised to see him come around to you. 
You are right, you can only control youself. Start making you happy. Little changes can make a big difference. If you want him to change, you have to start with yourself. He will not treat you the same way when you treat him differently. Through practicing the couples dialogue and counseling, he will begin to understand your needs better, but that's just a tool. You have to make changes too. I know what he said hurts a lot and he's not saying it in a good way, but that is why you two are in counseling to learn healthy communication skills so that you can understand one another better. You also are learning how to say it in a way he can understand. Even if there was a misunderstanding today, try not to hold a grudge. Make a peace offering, maybe rent a movie he wants to see or pick up something he likes to eat as a surprise then let it go. If you can't do that, then just take yourself out to give him some space. Go get a massage or something that will make you feel better. 
btw: you are welcome I hope your evening gets better


----------



## credamdóchasgra

Well, i guess if I apply one little change, that's a way to change myself and hope for a positive outcome. All I can do is try it.
The timing of "giving him space" is interesting, because I'm going out of town tomorrow for about a week, so he'll have plenty of time without me...
I'm not holding a grudge from this morning, just moving on and acting neutral...he's doing what he always does---acting like nothing happened.

We are going to an old friend's house for dinner tonight, which will be good. 
It is nice to know someone out there understands what i'm going through here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candice912

I do understand. This trip might be coming at a good time for you. I know it's difficult, but trust me that he loves you, or he wouldn't even try. Men are just that way. He loves you or he would have been out of there already. I know that is not always enough to be loved, so I will go as far as to say he wants you too. He wants what you want or you two wouldn't have gotten married. You two are just having a stressful time, and at times of stress, it can be hard to comprehend what others want from you. From my husband's point of view, he says, "People are more selfish in their thoughts when they are stressed." Maybe that's something for you to think about on your trip, that it's not him, but that you do it, I do it, he does it, everyone does it in moments of stress, that we cannot see beyond our own suffering.


----------



## credamdóchasgra

Thank God for the trip, because I honestly need the forced distance to force me to not be so needy and vulnerable right now.
It is gut-wrenching and empty-feeling to feel like what we need more than anything is s connection, and somehow I need to do less. 
I don't want huge revolutionary things from him. Small things---holding me when we are in bed, even briefly, goes a long way in making me feel loved. Not too long ago he did that often. So why now when I say to him, " I love when you do that," he doesn't? It's like he purposely doesn't, only because I told him I like it. 
I never thought Id be in a marriage where I felt like I care more than my husband but that's how it feels.
Right now I feel like i'm trying to get my husband to love me and show me love, and that's a miserable feeling.
I feel basically rejected. It sucks.
Going away for a week will force me to back off, and God knows what it'll mean for him...right now it just hurts too much to be near him and feel this void of distance between us that he's either ignoring, or prefers. I need a bit of distance to get strong. I feel pathetic at the moment.
Did you ever go through a feeling like this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## credamdóchasgra

I don't perceive that he feels stressed when his indifference or intolerance hurts me.
I perceive that he feels nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candice912

credamdóchasgra said:


> I don't perceive that he feels stressed when his indifference or intolerance hurts me.
> I perceive that he feels nothing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's just a wall to hide is feelings, so that he doesn't get hurt anymore than he already is. He has feelings, just as much as you do. Do you remember the phrase, "boys don't cry"? Men were never taught to be in touch with their emotions the way women are. Then the moment they get married, they are supposed to magically be in touch with their emotions. But they don't know how. Let me correct myself here, some men are in touch with their emotions, but many are not. He will learn in time to better deal with your feelings.


----------



## candice912

credamdóchasgra said:


> Thank God for the trip, because I honestly need the forced distance to force me to not be so needy and vulnerable right now.
> It is gut-wrenching and empty-feeling to feel like what we need more than anything is s connection, and somehow I need to do less.
> I don't want huge revolutionary things from him. Small things---holding me when we are in bed, even briefly, goes a long way in making me feel loved. Not too long ago he did that often. So why now when I say to him, " I love when you do that," he doesn't? It's like he purposely doesn't, only because I told him I like it.
> I never thought Id be in a marriage where I felt like I care more than my husband but that's how it feels.
> Right now I feel like i'm trying to get my husband to love me and show me love, and that's a miserable feeling.
> I feel basically rejected. It sucks.
> Going away for a week will force me to back off, and God knows what it'll mean for him...right now it just hurts too much to be near him and feel this void of distance between us that he's either ignoring, or prefers. I need a bit of distance to get strong. I feel pathetic at the moment.
> Did you ever go through a feeling like this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I have felt like that, but I didn't have the luxury of a trip to regroup, which I desperately yearned for at times. The void ate me alive too, but it won't stay that way. You two have had some breakthroughs, just give it time. You might feel extra needy right now because you're going away and twice as hurt because he isn't giving you that extra affection. He will come to you in time. First, he needs some air,then through counseling and time, he will come to understand your needs and be more willing to fulfill them.


----------



## credamdóchasgra

That is exactly how I need to see this trip--as a luxury that I need to help me regroup and give me some space too. We left on a better note yesterday, too. An outside issue came up that we needed to deal with together as a tteam, and it was really helpful to focus on something else important...then later when I did bring up what had concerned and hurt me from before, he was more open to listening. We had a conflict-free afternoon, which is rare lately. I didn't get annoyed at him for something I think he expected me to, and I hope he noticed and appreciated that. 
When he took me to the airport, he gave me a long hug and kiss and I told him it was ok if he didn't park and come in, just drop me off since he had to get somewhere. Again, I hope he appreciated that too. We left on a good note.
A little bit of space is what we need right now. Both of us. 
The more I fill my mind and time and attention with other important things too, the better I can put these issues in perspective---not that they aren't important, just that other positive/important things are valuable in their own right, and make us both better people who can handle our relationship issues better. That was yesterday's lesson anyway. 
This will be a good week. I'm at one of my best friend's house with her husband and daughter, I'll be her for thenext 5 days and it's exactly what I need right now.
Thank you again, your words have been resonating in my mind when I need them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candice912

It sounds like it went really well. You sound like you are more centered right now, more focused, better, and I am happy for that. Just remember that you are not alone. I share some of my experiences of growth with you in hopes that it helps you. It sounds like it has. Have a wonderful trip.


----------



## credamdóchasgra

BTW....the "outside issue" that he and I dealt with "as a team" was much more "outside" than the one in which today he got to the end of his short fuse WAY too quickly (on the phone) and snapped at me, 
"Can I have a frustration dialogue?!?!"
I can understand his point of view, see into his world full of stressors, be understanding and empathetic to all of that, and not take his crappy snappiness personally in this particular moment.
But I'd like him to see into my world too, join me in it, and not snap AT ME when he's annoyed AT STRESS, DEADLINES, SCHEDULING ISSUES, etc. IN GENERAL.
I do not want every annoyance projected ONTO ME.
candice, i sent you a pm. I hope it went through.


----------



## candice912

I'm sorry, I've been sick the last few days. I'll read it now. Yes you are right. Some boundaries must be set.


----------



## hkbaker

credamdóchasgra said:


> Thank God for the trip,
> I don't want huge revolutionary things from him. Small things---holding me when we are in bed, even briefly, goes a long way in making me feel loved. Not too long ago he did that often. So why now when I say to him, " I love when you do that," he doesn't? It's like he purposely doesn't, only because I told him I like it.


I have felt this way before and it took ME a while to realize what I was doing to create this nearly identical environment. I was so wrapped up in my pain that I did not realize I projected some MY pain onto my wife.

This created a very unsafe space for my wife and she did what she needed to do to feel safe. She became closed-off, unempathetic, etc



credamdóchasgra said:


> I never thought Id be in a marriage where I felt like I care more than my husband but that's how it feels.
> Right now I feel like i'm trying to get my husband to love me and show me love, and that's a miserable feeling.
> I feel basically rejected. It sucks.


I too have head these feelings and yes, feeling rejected does suck. The hardest thing for me to realize was the majority of my feelings of rejection and abandonment came from a very traumatic experience from my childhood. 

I would revert back to a 9 year old hurt and abandoned little boy where the only way to get the attention I needed was through reactivity and anger. 

When the same feelings would come up around my wife, I would literally react like a hurt 9 year old little boy.

My wife had an affair and this obviously was a justifiable event for my feelings of betrayal, but I added the childhood pain on top of this and was like "see all the pain you have caused me?"



credamdóchasgra said:


> Going away for a week will force me to back off, and God knows what it'll mean for him...right now it just hurts too much to be near him and feel this void of distance between us that he's either ignoring, or prefers. I need a bit of distance to get strong. I feel pathetic at the moment.
> Did you ever go through a feeling like this?


I also thought that she was either ignoring or prefers it. I need closeness and need my wife to show me she wants to be close to me or else I start getting feelings of rejection and abandonment. 

The worst part was that my inability to communicate my pain and needs to my wife in a healthy way actually caused us to grow apart and not the closeness that I needed.

Imago dialogue is what you guys need. I know the format seems kind of corny and structured, but it will work if you work it.

I hope this helps


----------



## credamdóchasgra

Hi, hkbaker...thanks for your replies.
Are you and your wife in imago therapy?
I know it's helping us, though we still have a long way to go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hkbaker

Yes, we are seeing an Imago therapist, and quite honestly, it's the only thing that will save our marriage.

This time last weekend, I thought my wife and I were done, finished, on our road to divorce. I told this to our IT and he said he has helped facilitate separations and divorce in the past.

Well, after going to see him earlier this week, things are certainly better. You wanna know why? Because I had an epiphany of sorts the days following our session.

I realized the pain I had been carrying with me all of these years was brought to our relationship. When the same feelings would come up around her, it was all too easy to dump all that pain together and put it on her.

I cant tell you what what it was like for me when I realized that I projected my pain onto my wife and more importantly how much that hurt my wife.

All I can say is that you HAVE to use the dialogue format. You can't let those thoughts fester, nor let them out in an unhealthy way. But those feelings need to be expressed.

Not just the dialogue, but all of the practices from the workshop, THEY WORK.


----------



## credamdóchasgra

We went to a workshop too and it was great.
Honestly sometimes our therapy sessions go better than other times.
Imago is anything but a quick fix...I'm more likely to try and implement tools right away, like dialogue, while my husband eases into them more gradually.
I just appreciate how balanced Imago is, and how it does not point the finger at either person---even if someone has done something hurtful, it's not productive to take the other person's "side."
it's the only thing that's going to save us, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hkbaker

credamdóchasgra said:


> Imago is anything but a quick fix...


Quick fixes tend to break and besides, how long did it take you two to get this far apart? It will take time.



credamdóchasgra said:


> I'm more likely to try and implement tools right away, like dialogue, while my husband eases into them more gradually.


It sounds like you're frustrated because he is not diving in like you are. Are you using the dialogue? I have seen the threads you've started here and it sounds like you're venting here on the boards instead of through the dialogue.

Perhaps if you told him all of these things through dialogue, he would feel there's a safe place for him and he would start using the dialogue as well.

I'm in the same position and I decided that I was going to use the tools from the Imago workshop regardless if she does or not and hopefully that will make her feel safe enough to want to do these things as well.


----------

