# Given the Choice



## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I thought about this this morning and wanted to ask everyone here. Someone in another thread I was commenting on made a statement about an attractive scale number.

I have stated before that I am not physically attracted to my wife. 
If given the option between two women/men who had very similar personalities, ideals, and beliefs, would you rather be with someone (long term relationship, marriage) who was really good in bed and you had sex often with (often by your own standards) but is a 5 or with someone who is just okay in bed and you only have sex occasionally (by your own standards) but is closer to an 8?

I know it is hypothetical, but this is the question I have in my head quite often.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

The 5. I would rather have love and frequent sex, Then a 10. Remember looks fade.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

underwater2010 said:


> The 5. I would rather have love and frequent sex, Then a 10. Remember looks fade.


But what if they have similar personalities. If that is the case, you have the love in both situations. It comes down to the sex vs. looks.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Every woman is beautiful if that's the way her man chooses to see her. Every woman is great in bed if that's the way her man perceives her. Likewise, the sexiest woman alive could be ugly if her man chooses to see her so.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!! It boils down to feeling wanted. Ask any man that has a woman withholding sex.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Every woman is beautiful if that's the way her man chooses to see her. Every woman is great in bed if that's the way her man perceives her. Likewise, the sexiest woman alive could be ugly if her man chooses to see her so.


Yes, if you take the personality into account when judging how attracted you are to someone. But what about that glance across the room and first look at someone when you don't know them. That perception of looks is what I am talking about. 
Yes, in a marriage we all know about the feelings and love and how all of that impacts perception. That is not what I am talking about.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

underwater2010 said:


> SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!! It boils down to feeling wanted. Ask any man that has a woman withholding sex.


yes, witholding sex does happen. But in this situation there would still be some sex, just a little less often as one would like.


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## caroaustini (Oct 24, 2012)

Ask any man that has a woman withholding sex.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

caroaustini said:


> Ask any man that has a woman withholding sex.


In this scenario I never said anything about witholding sex. Just that sex doesn't happen as often. To me, there is a difference.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't understand the question. I guess because it's hypothetical...

But, I may find someone a 5, but to someone else he'd be a 10. Or the other way around. I think my husband is a 10 and he's amazing in bed...but to someone else it could be not so.

Your wife will be a 10 to someone. Appreciate her or not, but wow...do you even want to be married?


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I don't understand the question. I guess because it's hypothetical...
> 
> But, I may find someone a 5, but to someone else he'd be a 10. Or the other way around. I think my husband is a 10 and he's amazing in bed...but to someone else it could be not so.
> 
> Your wife will be a 10 to someone. Appreciate her or not, but wow...do you even want to be married?


I think it's pretty apparent from all his posts that he doesn't. Definitely a glass is half empty type of person.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

that_girl said:


> I don't understand the question. I guess because it's hypothetical...
> 
> But, I may find someone a 5, but to someone else he'd be a 10. Or the other way around. I think my husband is a 10 and he's amazing in bed...but to someone else it could be not so.
> 
> ...


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

livnlearn said:


> I think it's pretty apparent from all his posts that he doesn't. Definitely a glass is half empty type of person.


I actually consider myself is glass is half full person. I am optimistic that things can always get better.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I thought my husband was the hottest man I'd ever seen. And then he spoke and I was sure of it. But what I think is "the hottest ever" won't be hot for someone else.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's so true.

I had nice looking men with mediocre sex and it just wasn't cutting it because I'm HD. 

So thankfully I got a HD man whom I thought was hot.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

I can honestly answer the OP's question. My husband was not what I would have been attracted to in the slightest. He is 6/7" shorter than me, and looked nothing like the men I typically would have gone for. However, he pestered me until I went out with him. Our first night in bed, I knew he was the one for me. He might not have physically drawn me, but his skill hooked me. 

So, I would rather have a '5', who is skilled and loves often...because that is what makes someone a 10.


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

gbrad said:


> I actually consider myself is glass is half full person. I am optimistic that things can always get better.


perception is half the battle gbrad...


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

livnlearn said:


> perception is half the battle gbrad...


Yes, but actually making things better is the more difficult portion of the battle.


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

gbrad said:


> Yes, but actually making things better is the more difficult portion of the battle.


you're proving my point.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

livnlearn said:


> you're proving my point.


Unless you get a chance to be with someone where you don't actually have to work to be attracted to them.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What is sooooo hideous about your wife? Did I miss something?


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

The 5 any day of the week. I need great sex and often


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

gbrad said:


> If given the option between two women/men who had very similar personalities, ideals, and beliefs, would you rather be with someone (long term relationship, marriage) who was really good in bed and you had sex often with (often by your own standards) but is a 5 or with someone who is just okay in bed and you only have sex occasionally (by your own standards) but is closer to an 8?


No question I'd take the 5. I firmly believe that the best sex I've had in my life has been the result of a great relationship outside of the marriage bed. If I'm having mediocre sex with the 8, then we're not clicking outside of the bedroom. If I'm having hot sex often with the 5, then we have a fantastic relationship and marriage that is most likely fulfilling me in many ways other than sex. When I'm in bed with my wife and the sex is sizzling, I'm seeing nothing but inner beauty and radiance. I couldn't help but love the 5 and want to be her lovin' man.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

OP for some reason I think you'd have bedroom troubles even if you thought your wife was a solid 10.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

that_girl said:


> What is sooooo hideous about your wife? Did I miss something?


I never said she was hideous. If based purely on looks I would say she is a 5 or 5.5. Not ugly, never said that, just that I am not physically attracted to her.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

pplwatching said:


> No question I'd take the 5. I firmly believe that the best sex I've had in my life has been the result of a great relationship outside of the marriage bed. If I'm having mediocre sex with the 8, then we're not clicking outside of the bedroom. If I'm having hot sex often with the 5, then we have a fantastic relationship and marriage that is most likely fulfilling me in many ways other than sex. When I'm in bed with my wife and the sex is sizzling, I'm seeing nothing but inner beauty and radiance. I couldn't help but love the 5 and want to be her lovin' man.


In that situation you are taking into account other variables besides just the sex. I recognize that there are other aspects to a fulfilling relationship. For me personally, sex is important, but it would be more pleasing to me to be with someone who is the 8.
I want to be able to look across a public room, see a woman standing there and say "damn she is hot" without even realizing it is my wife. That kind of physical attraction.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Were you ever? Did something change? :/

My answer: 5. Anyday. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

MrsOldNews said:


> OP for some reason I think you'd have bedroom troubles even if you thought your wife was a solid 10.


You are probably right. A 10 just might make me feel inadequate. I want set the bar high, but not so high that I can't even reach it.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> Were you ever? Did something change? :/
> 
> My answer: 5. Anyday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I never was. 

And I am not suprised that most people here are saying they would take the 5. I think that has a lot to do with the idea of a loving and caring relationship. For me, I want the 8 with that loving and caring relationship.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

gbrad said:


> Yes, if you take the personality into account when judging how attracted you are to someone. But what about that glance across the room and first look at someone when you don't know them. That perception of looks is what I am talking about.
> Yes, in a marriage we all know about the feelings and love and how all of that impacts perception. That is not what I am talking about.


If you're just glancing around the room, you'd have no idea about their personality. Also, whether a woman is attractive or not also depends on your level of intoxication, the availability of other targets, how long it's been since you've engaged a target, and your perception of your ability to engage available targets. If it's been a while or you're drunk enough, "4" looks a lot like "10".


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## Horsa (Jun 27, 2012)

To me, my DW is 8, but she sees herself as 6. I still remembered the first time I look at her, her eyes and her smile are what really draws me to her. Sex with her is always great to me, though I feel that she don't feel the same.
To her, maybe I am 6 (tall, white, handsome), but lack muscle and side whiskers (that's what she consider attractive and sexy on man). But she said that I change into 8 when I'm on top of her as we make love.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> If you're just glancing around the room, you'd have no idea about their personality. Also, whether a woman is attractive or not also depends on your level of intoxication, the availability of other targets, how long it's been since you've engaged a target, and your perception of your ability to engage available targets. If it's been a while or you're drunk enough, "4" looks a lot like "10".


Thank you for over analyzing it and adding many unnecessary variables.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

I have to ask gbrad, are you over a 5 or a 5.5 looks wise? A lot of men think dating a woman who is much better looking than you doesn't bode well.

I however think you are to fixated on this 8 out of ten looks thing. Why is it so important for you? I think there has to be some underlying issue as to why you're so fixated on looks. 

And just to let you know, I've been told I'm quite a looker and have many friends and acquaintances whom I would consider 8-10 out of 10 (by my scale for women is much more harsh than men)

And as much as I love my friends, a lot of the hot ones act entitled in their relationships. Their men put them on a pedastool due to looks and let them get away with murder. Not to mention how high maintenance some of them are. And insecure too. I've noticed this about a lot of really hot women. For instances one of my close friends who always turns heads was astounded that it only takes me 20min to get ready. Takes her 1-1 1/2 hours, yep.... that long

Now before I get flamed by a bunch of hot women with awesome personalities I was just speaking from my own experiences with uber hot women. That's just a small example of hot women everywhere.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

gbrad said:


> I thought about this this morning and wanted to ask everyone here. Someone in another thread I was commenting on made a statement about an attractive scale number.
> 
> I have stated before that I am not physically attracted to my wife.
> If given the option between two women/men who had very similar personalities, ideals, and beliefs, would you rather be with someone (long term relationship, marriage) who was really good in bed and you had sex often with (often by your own standards) but is a 5 or with someone who is just okay in bed and you only have sex occasionally (by your own standards) but is closer to an 8?
> ...


If the love is there, a 5 to everyone else is a 10 in your own head.

As such, give me the 5 every time and let me have sex so often my balls look like raisins.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Personally I wouldn't choose either. I'd keep looking until I found a woman who was a 10 on all scales in my eyes.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

There are different things for each person that are "graded" more important than others. I love the cuddly, broad shouldered football player build and don't care about a man being 'cut' and really dislike string-beans. But I know people who are really in to those things. I love a nice smile and good oral hygiene is important to me. I know a guy who is fit and otherwise attractive but chews tobacco and his teeth are gross. 

My BF is an 8.5 facially and probably a 6 physically but because I love his eyes, broad shoulders and great smile, his over all SA rank to me is about an 8. I think I'm about a 7.5 or 8. Body a bit chunky, smile a plus, pretty good w/ very few lines. But I have NO IDEA what he thinks. He hasn't complimented anything in particular.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Good Question gbrad. I've often wondered the same thing in reverse. Would I be happier with a women who wasn't as good looking as my wife and wasn't LD. 

There are so many other things I love about my wife besides her looks though. As I am discovering I need much more than just a pretty face and hot body. Sexy is just as much and attitude as it is a look. Ask any women who has talked to a hot guy only to find out he's got the personality of a brick. 

I don't have an answer for you really. Perhaps only that we all look the same with the lights off. Turn out the lights, turn up the heat and get between the sheets.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

MrsOldNews said:


> I have to ask gbrad, are you over a 5 or a 5.5 looks wise? A lot of men think dating a woman who is much better looking than you doesn't bode well.
> 
> I however think you are to fixated on this 8 out of ten looks thing. Why is it so important for you? I think there has to be some underlying issue as to why you're so fixated on looks.
> 
> ...


I consider myself a 6.5. As much as I think an 8 would be nice, I would be quite happy with someone closer to a 7. To me, a 7 is someone who is good looking and can still turn some heads.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

CanadianGuy said:


> Good Question gbrad. I've often wondered the same thing in reverse. Would I be happier with a women who wasn't as good looking as my wife and wasn't LD.
> 
> There are so many other things I love about my wife besides her looks though. As I am discovering I need much more than just a pretty face and hot body. Sexy is just as much and attitude as it is a look. Ask any women who has talked to a hot guy only to find out he's got the personality of a brick.
> 
> I don't have an answer for you really. Perhaps only that we all look the same with the lights off. Turn out the lights, turn up the heat and get between the sheets.


As I have stated I understand that personalities can play a large part in how we view our partners. At the same time, physical attraction on its own is important. As for turning out the lights and getting between the sheets. Given the choice, I would rather have the chance to hang out together in the light and love the view the entire time.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

gbrad said:


> I consider myself a 6.5. As much as I think an 8 would be nice, I would be quite happy with someone closer to a 7. To me, a 7 is someone who is good looking and can still turn some heads.


Have you ever read MMSL?

Just wondering, because there is something to what you are saying about "sex rank" and whether it's positive or negative for you to have a higher rank than your wife\gf.

I believe the man does better overall if his rank is higher than the woman's. Because you want her to realise she has a good catch. And not go grazing.

A 6.5 man with an 8 woman. I can see issues with that. 
Unless you enjoy that kind of environment?


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

deejov said:


> Have you ever read MMSL?
> 
> Just wondering, because there is something to what you are saying about "sex rank" and whether it's positive or negative for you to have a higher rank than your wife\gf.
> 
> ...


As I said, I would be happy as a 6.5 with a 7. And I have heard a lot of people say that men tend to get better looking as they age, but woman not as much. (don't jump all over me on that one, just stating what I have heard other people say and I tend to believe there).
Though I understand the number issue aspect. Someone who is with someone ranked somewhat lower may feel the need to work harder to keep that person around. Kinda counter-intuitive if you are the higher rank and doing all the work, it makes you feel as if you deserve more.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll always be hot.

:rofl:

MOISTERIZE, people!


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

First you have to tell me whether the scoring is being done by the Russian judges.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Problem with that question to me, is that in my opinion of a "5" the only way to get to that point or below means you have really poor health and attitude and energy... or in the case that they really have great personality, energy and enthusiasm, and take care of them, in order to be a 5 they would have to be insanely hideously physically unnatractive. A 5 doesn't put out, so your example is fictional 

To me, my ex W started as a 7.5, dropped to a 7 (which is fine because that is where I put myself), but after having our child her looks, personality and health all slid way down, no enthusiasm, she dropped to below a 5 for sure (maybe a 6 in looks but a 4 in personality)

Rank is determined largely in part by looks, but you can't truly separate the personality and attitude numbers out of the equation... there is no comparing a "5" who puts out with a "8" who doesn't, because with the right attitude a 5 looker can be an 8, and with a sour personality an 8 looker can be a 5. rank is an overall package value.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

My husbands friends used to ask him "how did you get her and does she have a sister that looks like that?" LOL

I have never though about the "rank" before now. I have no idea what my "rank" is or my husbands~ Don't care much either =) but i would have to say doesn't really matter as long as they put out, a lot, but there has to be attraction, if there isn't it will never work!


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

ladybird said:


> My husbands friends used to ask him "how did you get her and does she have a sister that looks like that?" LOL
> 
> I have never though about the "rank" before now. I have no idea what my "rank" is or my husbands~ Don't care much either =) but i would have to say doesn't really matter as long as they put out, a lot, but there has to be attraction, if there isn't it will never work!


Exactly, there has to be attraction. To me, a 5 is someone you are not attracted to. They might not be ugly, but they are not attractive either. And I guess for me, I care more about looks and the physical attraction than I do about the putting out.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Gbrad do you think your wife thinks you're better looking than her? Does she have any idea as to how you feel about her looks?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I couldn't be with someone who I thought was HOT but they never put out. GAWD! What hell that would be.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Yeah, but your ego would be happy. Cuz all your friends would be jealous. And maybe taking turns on the bicycle LOL


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

.......


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## GinnyTonia (Jul 31, 2012)

gbrad said:


> No, I never was.


Why did you marry her?


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

MrsOldNews said:


> Gbrad do you think your wife thinks you're better looking than her? Does she have any idea as to how you feel about her looks?





that_girl said:


> I couldn't be with someone who I thought was HOT but they never put out. GAWD! What hell that would be.


Yes she does think I am better looking than her. I am not trying to be conceded there, just going off of what I do know and what is said her at home. No, she does not know what I honestly think about her looks. I don't want to make her feel any worse than she already does about it.

I never said be with someone hot who NEVER puts out. Just someone who you have sex with less often than you would want. You still get to have sex with them.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

deejov said:


> Yeah, but your ego would be happy. Cuz all your friends would be jealous. And maybe taking turns on the bicycle LOL


? Not sure what this pertains to.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

GinnyTonia said:


> Why did you marry her?


She was my friend who I enjoyed spending time with and talking to. And I felt it was in my best interests to get married at the time. (That is the abbreviated version of it)


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

I would rather have a 5 with plenty of sex and intimacy any day, thats a no brainer, sex and intimacy breeds happiness. I like a 10 as much as the next guy but in the long run youre better off with someone you connect with regardless of the looks score.


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## Horsa (Jun 27, 2012)

Agreed, better a 5 with plenty of sex and intimacy that will make the relationship strong and both of us happy...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

roostr said:


> I would rather have a 5 with plenty of sex and intimacy any day, thats a no brainer, sex and intimacy breeds happiness. I like a 10 as much as the next guy but in the long run youre better off with someone you connect with regardless of the looks score.


Putting this in context for myself, apart from the first couple years of my marriage I've had to take care of my sexual needs all on my own my whole life. If need be I can continue that but i'd rather it be with a woman I'm sexually interested in.

according to my definition of a "5" my sexual interest in her would be completely neutral... And conversely a "10" being the prime. 

So assuming my availability of 5's are unlimited, and availability of a 10 is nil, the perfect sweet spot for me is probably a 7.5 (would probably fit well with my level of sex drive too).

As to how to determine a 7.5, well that to me is the fun part about the sexes


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

roostr said:


> I would rather have a 5 with plenty of sex and intimacy any day, thats a no brainer, sex and intimacy breeds happiness. I like a 10 as much as the next guy but in the long run youre better off with someone you connect with regardless of the looks score.





Horsa said:


> Agreed, better a 5 with plenty of sex and intimacy that will make the relationship strong and both of us happy...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just because you don't have sex all the time that is great doesn't mean you can't connect with the person. I can imagine being in a relationship with someone where the sex is just okay, but everything else is great. I would take that in a heart beat.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

gbrad said:


> Just because you don't have sex all the time that is great doesn't mean you can't connect with the person. I can imagine being in a relationship with someone where the sex is just okay, but everything else is great. I would take that in a heart beat.


I can respect what you are saying here gbrad... sex, is certainly not the only thing you base a marriage on, and in a couple that has other mutual interests more important, they can and will connect in other ways.

Though, we are all human after all, and sex is a genuine, bona fide need, for everyone, atleast I believe this to be true, god gave us sexual organs (or we evolved them) for a reason, to use not just to cover up with clothes. It certainly isn't the be all and end all, though personally I want to take full advantage of my hormones while I still got em!


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

I think this all comes down to that we are shaped by our past experiences and that everybody wants the things they think for themselves (stress that) is the solution for whatever lack they experience in their current situation. To clarify that with an example: a person who experienced a relationship with that 8 but also experienced a non-fulfilling sex-life is logically going to go for the 5 with the fulfilling sex-life. Visa versa someone who believes they’ve settled for a 5 is going to long for a relationship in which they do have that jaw drop experience. That’s just how humans work – we always see things on the other side of the fence as idealized and desirable.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

After reading the couple of comments it is clear that we view sex differently. I understand the need to connect intimately with your spouse, but that is not how I have viewed sex. For me there are other ways that I am happy to connect closely with my partner. Sex is fun, it is a good time and yes it can make you feel closer. But I don't need sex to feel intimate as others stated. Different needs for different people shaped by our experiences.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Thats why you shouldn't get married lol.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

gbrad said:


> I thought about this this morning and wanted to ask everyone here. Someone in another thread I was commenting on made a statement about an attractive scale number.
> 
> I have stated before that I am not physically attracted to my wife.
> If given the option between two women/men who had very similar personalities, ideals, and beliefs, would you rather be with someone (long term relationship, marriage) who was really good in bed and you had sex often with (often by your own standards) but is a 5 or with someone who is just okay in bed and you only have sex occasionally (by your own standards) but is closer to an 8?
> ...


Looks fade - go for compatibility, sexual and otherwise. 

Hubby was definitely a solid LA 9 when we married AND the sex was smoking hot so it was wonderful! Now to get him to the gym again...


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

TCSRedhead said:


> Looks fade - go for compatibility, sexual and otherwise.
> 
> Hubby was definitely a solid LA 9 when we married AND the sex was smoking hot so it was wonderful! Now to get him to the gym again...


Yes, looks fade, so you want to get them while you actually still can. As well, you can be compatible with someone in other ways besides just sex. To me, being attracted to the person would make sex a whole lot more compatible.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

gbrad said:


> Just because you don't have sex all the time that is great doesn't mean you can't connect with the person. I can imagine being in a relationship with someone where the sex is just okay, but everything else is great. I would take that in a heart beat.


 Sex is very important for me to have a connection with someone, but there has to be somewhat of a connection before hand. Sex (for me) makes that connection stronger. No sex means less of a connection (for me).


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> Looks fade - go for compatibility, sexual and otherwise.


Yes and no... for me, aging isn't really the biggest factor, because I see so many beautiful women aging gracefully - the nice part about a gracefully aged woman is you know their looks have longevity. But wrinkles are not a dealbreaker, nor is a little sagginess, atleast not for the age group I find myself compatible with. Style, health/fitness and personality are still the big factors for me, whether you are 25 or 50. (note: that is a little wider than the age group I go after). And it seems there is so little correlation about how good a woman looks at 18 to how she looks at 40, some of the prettiest girls in high school are still gorgeous today, some not at all, and some of the more awkward geeky looking ones just seem to be getting more and more beautiful looking with age, while others not.

So yeah, to reiterate: Style, health/fitness and personality.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> The 5. I would rather have love and frequent sex, Then a 10. Remember looks fade.


My husband gets hotter everyday...and he is older then me. Now ME on the otherhand....

Why do men get more attractive as they age?! Not fair!


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