# The Descendants - Take on Infidelity



## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Watched it the other night and very interesting how they view the topic and it is handled.... Interested in opinions

*SPOILER ALERT*

So he finds out from his daughter that his wife was having an affair (she is in a coma and will die). How does he react and those around him is very nteresting. 

We get some clues why she had an affair and know Clooney was a good, but probably not a great husband. We see how others covered up the affair, and still others who think she was a wonderful mother/wife. Without saying much we make judgements on their marriage.

He then goes about finding who she cheated with and to get an answer or two. Interesting is what would have happened if none of this disclosure took place.

It seems that they would have continued in their merry way, two families with a secret.

Lot's to think about, in a movie that really does not say that much.

Reading user comments on IMDB I also find fascinating, as those who do not like the movie I think miss reading between the lines and understanding the subtlety of the story and the affair and what it did. 

I think reading TAM and being in my late 40's too has made me very perceptive when I see a movie like this. 

Hope to see some discussion...... Agree/Disagree????


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## code7600 (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm not sure what you want us to agree (or disagree) with...
I mindlessly went to this movie with my wife. Just before major
surgery on her, and just before our anniversary. My bad! I should
have read a spoiler first. Very depressing for me, in 2nd marriage.
1st ended due to exww ea/pa with co-worker. 2nd going well.
So, if you are the decision maker for post-op serious issues,
or you think infidelity should be taken to the grave... (except for
the daughter knowing...) DO NOT see this movie.
~~~~
"What we have here is a failure to communicate." The Captain


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

code7600 said:


> I'm not sure what you want us to agree (or disagree) with...
> I mindlessly went to this movie with my wife. Just before major
> surgery on her, and just before our anniversary. My bad! I should
> have read a spoiler first. Very depressing for me, in 2nd marriage.
> ...


Just curious as to people's reaction to the movie and how the Affair was handled. 

I very much liked the movie. I found the scene where he confronts his wife's BF and husband very powerful and well played with accusations and what we saw was a beta husband who basically kept his mouth shut, finally giving Matt King (Clooney's character) a name.

The teenage daughter and her emotions catching her mom and how she denied and then as said here 'trickle truth' again an interesting discussion point.

Also the OMW and her well acted role was interesting.

Just wanted to talk about the movie and here is probably the best place.


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## code7600 (Mar 20, 2011)

I got into personal hangups, as I often do.
They got several points right, at least by the stories here.

Toxic friend saying 'you go girl, you deserve it.' And the
quit beta husband you cited.

The AP saying 'it just happened' during a party. Classic poor
boundaries.

Affair down - Matthew Lillard is no Clooney. See scooby-do or
13 ghosts.
OMW has a gut feeling, and confronts.

So, it was well researched for the cliches. It was un-satisying
for never answering the 'why' question Matt had. But again, that
is typical of real life.

But, like Crazy, Stupid Love, I would not suggest it for anyone
going through or having gone through infidelity. Movie treatment
is just a little too glib.

~~~~
"What we have here is a failure to communicate." The Captain


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Very much liked both movies. I just thought the Descendants handled it well, as there were questions never answered, which allowed the movie goers to speculate and discuss.

Also the father and his comments, all the while Clooney biting his lip.

Maybe those confronting Infidelity may feel different. I however very much found it thought provoking. 

Clooney was not the best father/husband, but we didn't know much outside what we listened to and were told in the movie, much like those here in CWI.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

If this movie is just going to be one large trigger, then I'll pass. Thanks for the heads up.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Haven't seen the movie, but I would imagine that most normal folks would think the unanswered question sucked. But for the many that went through this crap called infidelity I would say it was a complete story and would know why the unanswerd questions were all part of the complete story.

hsts. I'll check out the movie, but if I get triggers I'm blaming you! LOL


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## Thewife (Sep 3, 2007)

Watched it last week and both me and H liked it. The unanswered question were great! We both have never experienced cheating but my friend who watched went back depressed.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

My wife and I both thought it sucked. It was depressing. Not entertainment unless you like torture. No infidelity between the two of us (I hope). The husband worked his ass off while she played. Her daughter couldn't even stand her. Typically, all the OM was interested in was her a$$.


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## DubeGechi (Dec 12, 2010)

I had no clue what this movie was about. So downloaded and watched the movie with the wife. When the infidelity thing came out I felt very bad. I really have had enough - so didnt like the movie to perturb me - Also had a very nasty day after.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Other than the daughter part, would you say then this may be a similar plot to the movie Harrison Ford did years ago (think it was Ransomed Hearts?? or something like that) where he discovers his wife's affair after she & her lover die in a plane crash together? I don't remember there being an answer/closure in that one either.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> If this movie is just going to be one large trigger, then I'll pass. Thanks for the heads up.


:iagree:

My wife has suggested this movie several times. I have had to control myself the last couple of times to not ask her if she is serious in suggesting it. The evidence of her affair is convincing but she denies anything.




code7600 said:


> if you think infidelity should be taken to the grave... (except for
> the daughter knowing...) DO NOT see this movie.


Is it a clear message that infidelity should be kept secret?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

OH good to know.

I won't be seeing this movie LOL I can't handle these topics right now without triggers. 

thanks for the post!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Wasn't Harrison Ford in the one were he kills the OM and him and his wife stay together and she helps him out when the cops question him.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Nah that was Richard Gere who was the betrayed husband in Unfaithful. Diane Lane was the unfaithful wife.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

As far as triggers go I'm up for any movie that shows AP get killed and distroyed. I know I'm wierd, but its just so fun to watch.

Thanks M- now I remember Gere wacks OM in the head and kills him then rolles him up in a carpet. Good times there


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I saw Unfaithful well before my wife's EA and thought it a really compelling movie. If I saw that for the first time after her EA I would have walked out of the theatre and right into a straight-jacket.

Wife heard Descendants was good - she casually mentioned wanting to see it but then we saw a commercial where the infidelity was revealed and she hasn't suggested it since.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

the guy said:


> Thanks M- now I remember Gere wacks OM in the head and kills him then rolles him up in a carpet. Good times there


I was watching the fight scene between Adrian Veidt and Edward Blake from the movie 'Watchmen' when I received a call informing me that my ex-wife's OM had been murdered.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

"Presumed Innocent" by Scott Turow. 

(SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T READ / SEEN IT. . . )

Harrison Ford's wife killed the mistress in movie; this isn't the one with the plane crash. 


I like the way the affair in "The World According to Garp" by John Irving comes to an end if you can ignore what happens to the kids,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_According_to_Garp_(film)


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

the guy said:


> Wasn't Harrison Ford in the one were he kills the OM and him and his wife stay together and she helps him out when the cops question him.


 The Harrison Ford movie was called "Presumed Innocent". In this movie, Harrison Ford's affair partner (AP) was murdered. Harrison Ford, working for the district attorney's office, is the first one to notice that there is evidence framing him for the murder that he did not commit. He must solve the case without letting anyone know about the affair. 

SPOILER ALERT!! In the end we learn it is his wife that killed the AP and Ford covers it up for her. The confrontation with the wife is chilling.


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## code7600 (Mar 20, 2011)

Thor said:


> :iagree:
> Is it a clear message that infidelity should be kept secret?


Thor, I often write terse replies that can be confusing.
I do not condone infidelity, nor the message it should
be kept secret. 
The movie did show the spectacular failure of secrecy. While the husband was clueless, the daughter found out.
So the method or plan of "take it to your grave" was mocked
as failing. When the affair got known, the usual pain occurred
to the husband and OMW, but could not be resolved.
I do wonder at the often (mis) quoted statistics that a large
percentage of affairs go undetected. That is depressing.


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## code7600 (Mar 20, 2011)

One more thing - thanks to the OP who helped me finally get over
the big three-oh post count...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Of course when your wife's in a coma you have the freedom to track down the other man in any way you see fit w/o any worry of the consequences. Which is probably the subtext here - the Clooney character would never go that if his wife was walking around being a skank harpy.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Maybe it was wrong that I posted this here, as obviously the hurt, pain and triggers cut deep.

Academy Award nominations for all the major categories, 89% positive rating on Rotten Tomatoes and an 8.1 rating. But here it is panned and people very upset at the portrayal of an affair and how it played out.

Surprised at the response here and sorry I posted, as obviously it hit a raw nerve with many.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Yes, each person brings his/her experiences to movies and songs, and if you have lived through infidelity your reaction will be very different than if you can watch this movie without personal baggage.

I thought the infidelity was being used as a metaphor for how George Clooney's character missed what is important in life. He buried himself in work, and did not pay attention to his wife and daughters. He also had to decide whether or not to sell out to development interests. Should he keep ancestral, beautiful land, or give in to greed?

I would have liked to see more of his relationship with his wife before her accident. I think we are supposed to assume that Clooney neglected her, but there is also the suggestion that she wanted excitement and did not have proper boundaries.

I also had trouble with the bratty kids, but I took this to mean that Clooney was not a good father to them.

I agree that the movie does not spell things out for the audience, and it can have several different interpretations.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Just curious as to people's reaction to the movie and how the Affair was handled.


You know with the anger the daughter felt towards the mother for what she did to her father, she wouldn't have hid it forever.

The so-called "friends" of Clooney's that hid the affair from them I would have disowned. Not really because they hid the affair(maybe a little), but because of their attitude, from what I remember, towards him as if they thought he should have been a little more gracious and the friend, the wife, was appalled when he had just a little less than exemplary words about her.


I, however, would not have handled the wife's care and funeral arrangements as Clooney's character would have. I'd have told her parents what happened in a respectful way and tell them that they need to make the arrangements for their daughter.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Watched Unfaithful the other day....Was depressed for 2 days .. But Diana Lane looked really good


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> Nah that was Richard Gere who was the betrayed husband in Unfaithful. Diane Lane was the unfaithful wife.


Yes, that movie I didn't like at all. I wanted to scream at Diane Lane through the TV LOL

And his comment towards the end. "I didn't want to kill him I wanted to kill you!" sort of rang true. NO, not that I would want to kill anyone and I'm sure if Richard Gere's character were real life(with the exception of a psycho which his character was not) that he didn't really mean he wanted to kill her. Its more of a signal of who he really was more angry with.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> Maybe it was wrong that I posted this here, as obviously the hurt, pain and triggers cut deep.


You posted it because you like getting a rise out of people.

If you want people to agree with your enjoyment of the movie, go to Roger Ebert's blog. He promotes movies about sexual deviancy and adultery.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Unfaithful was a good example of a woman with poor boundaries. She had a wonderful marriage with a loving husband, and she still chose to selfishly cheat because that French guy was so hot.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Yes, each person brings his/her experiences to movies and songs, and if you have lived through infidelity your reaction will be very different than if you can watch this movie without personal baggage.
> 
> I thought the infidelity was being used as a metaphor for how George Clooney's character missed what is important in life. He buried himself in work, and did not pay attention to his wife and daughters. He also had to decide whether or not to sell out to development interests. Should he keep ancestral, beautiful land, or give in to greed?
> 
> ...


That is what I liked about the movie, that they did not tell you why there was an affair, just let you make your assumptions. To me Clooney was a decent person, but probably took the marriage and his kids somewhat for granted because no one ever told him he was losing them and his wife to an affair. He went about his life, his work and his family and probably never stopped to smell the roses and enjoy them.

His wife lived life, but she too may have been neglectful to her family & kids (oldest daughter sent off to a specialized boarding school, that may have been for behavioural reasons).

The voice over at the start where Clooney's character talks about living within your means and that his cousins and brothers did not. Knowing they were affluent but he drove a Honda Accord and his father in-law chirping that he didn't buy is wife the proper boat and safety equipment that may have averted the accident, yet another example of how Clooney lived his life.

There are many subtle clues in the movie open for interpretation that really pulled me in.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

code7600 said:


> I do wonder at the often (mis) quoted statistics that a large
> percentage of affairs go undetected. That is depressing.


Yeah it is depressing if it is anywhere near accurate.

Thanks for the additional info on the movie. I still wonder why my wife keeps suggesting we see this movie. 4 times now IIRC she has suggested it as we look at what is playing at the local megaplex. She knows this is a hot button for me and that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence I have asked her about regarding an affair. The entire movie would be a non-stop trigger for me.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> His wife lived life, but she too may have been neglectful to her family & kids (oldest daughter sent off to a specialized boarding school, that may have been for behavioural reasons).


Well duh. When you cheat in a marriage you are obviously neglecting your family & kids. Gotta be away from the family to spread the legs, or whip it out to have sex with the other person


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Unfaithful was a good example of a woman with poor boundaries. She had a wonderful marriage with a loving husband, and she still chose to selfishly cheat because that French guy was so hot.


And she gets angry when he cheats on her. I was extremely pissed off by that part. I wish the ending was more satisfying. She involved two men. One ended up being murderer and one murdered and she goes scot free.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Yes. I think the point was the horrible consequences of cheating. Sex is never just sex.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I also liked unfaithful because for once, Hollywood did not portray a betrayed husband as being a selfish jerk who deserved to be cheated on by his suffering unfaithful wife. And also because of a scene in which a woman friend of Diane Lane's girlfriends group, confesses to her and her other friends - who were toying with the idea of cheating on their husbands - how she cheated and the horrific hell it brought to her and her husband's lives. The change in mood between the women from playful to somber after they heard their friend's story, was quite striking.

It was quite refreshing to see a movie where the woman was actually the 'bad guy'.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thor said:


> Yeah it is depressing if it is anywhere near accurate.
> 
> Thanks for the additional info on the movie. I still wonder why my wife keeps suggesting we see this movie. 4 times now IIRC she has suggested it as we look at what is playing at the local megaplex. She knows this is a hot button for me and that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence I have asked her about regarding an affair. The entire movie would be a non-stop trigger for me.


Tell her you'll see the movie right after she takes a polygraph test.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Well I am glad for the spoil for this one. I will miss this move and save my self the money.

I hate that cheating is given so much attention in movies and t.v. like the show on the BBCA mistress all about a bunch of friends who run around sleeping with each others spouses and things like that. I hate that this passes for entertainment and even worse it there are people out there that believe that is what it is really like. 
Crawl in my head and feel my pain and you will not be entertained you will feel as if you walked through hell.

I am so glad that this movie was ruinned for me because I was going to take my husband and he would have seen it as an attack to make him feel bad. We both would have triggered and then the rest of the week would have been hard as heck to get through. So thanks for saving me the money time and fall out!!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Has anyone seen the movie "Leaving"? A French movie. Painful to watch. Wife dumps her wealthy hubby and family to have an affair with an ex-con carpenter. Her husband does an extreme 180, throws her out. She ends up shooting him to death in his sleep, then runs off to live happily ever after with her beau.

Heres the IMDB link: 

Leaving (2009) - IMDb

Talk about triggers.... holy moley!


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Has anyone seen the movie "Leaving"? A French movie. Painful to watch. Wife dumps her wealthy hubby and family to have an affair with an ex-con carpenter. Her husband does an extreme 180, throws her out. She ends up shooting him to death in his sleep, then runs off to live happily ever after with her beau.
> 
> Heres the IMDB link:
> 
> ...


Always sleep with a .45 under your pillow.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

OneMan said:


> Bullcrap, that whole film was out to justify the affair and make the husband a wimp. Most husbands in real life would've taken a whole different route instead of being a **** and making funeral arrangements for their remorseless wife, who kept her mouth shut until the day she died.


Yes, thats pretty much the gist of it.

I kept wishing Clooney's character would tell the friends who kept the affair from him that they are pieces of s**t, told the parents of his wife that they need to make the funeral arrangements and payments for their cheating daughter, and even though she found out anyway, was wanting him to tell the OM's wife.

The only part I agreed with was not losing his cool in front of the kids even though the daughter wanted him to be angry about his wife's cheating.

After I found out what the movie was about, and the direction I saw it going, I was pretty much disgusted I was even sitting there through the rest of it. Those that gave it good ratings must have been cheaters.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Dexter Morgan said:


> Yes, thats pretty much the gist of it.
> 
> I kept wishing Clooney's character would tell the friends who kept the affair from him that they are pieces of s**t, told the parents of his wife that they need to make the funeral arrangements and payments for their cheating daughter, and even though she found out anyway, was wanting him to tell the OM's wife.
> 
> ...


We don't know what happened or how the funeral was handled. That is not the point. I posted only as someone who was intrigued and interested in the film and how it would handle the situation. To call Clooney a cuckold I think is stretching it. How he handled the affair I found very thought provoking as he had to handle not just an affair, but his wife's death all at once, all the while she was still in a coma. 

Yes we know there is no excuse for an affair, but the questions brought up and the lack of answers I did find thoroughly interesting.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Tell her you'll see the movie right after she takes a polygraph test.


What I need is a movie about a spouse taking a polygraph.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thor said:


> What I need is a movie about a spouse taking a polygraph.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I feel you there.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> We don't know what happened or how the funeral was handled. That is not the point. I posted only as someone who was intrigued and interested in the film and how it would handle the situation. To call Clooney a cuckold I think is stretching it.


I didn't consider his character a cuckold, because to be a cuckold, one would have to continue putting up with a cheating spouse. She wasn't cheating anymore, obviously




> How he handled the affair I found very thought provoking as he had to handle not just an affair, but his wife's death all at once, all the while she was still in a coma.


Yes, we know you keep saying its thought provoking without qualifying your statements. My guess is you are refraining from saying what you really want to say, and for good reason seeing as how many of us here realize you posted this more to provoke, while veiling the intentions pretty well. So I guess all we'll get from you is "thought provoking"



> Yes we know there is no excuse for an affair, but the questions brought up and the lack of answers I did find thoroughly interesting.


Ya, we know you find it interesting.

The rest of us, for the most part, no.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Thor said:


> What I need is a movie about a spouse taking a polygraph.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What I need is a movie where the BS throws the cheating spouse out on the street naked, and people are driving by taking pictures and posting it on youtube

Or something where the BS is able to publicly humiliate them, get custody, or somehow get all the marital assets and the cheating spouse has to start over. Now THAT would be a movie!!


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

michzz said:


> His wife's failings would have a lesser man trashing her to his young daughter, his tool of a father in law, the world.


Oh please. Spare us. 

I agree that no matter what, you should NEVER trash the spouse to your children. Thats not even a debate.

But if he chose to handle it a different way with other people, that doesn't make him a lesser man. How he handles dealing with finding out he was betrayed by a lesser woman, with exception to his kids, would be understandable to say the least.





> Instead, he honored his commitments to all


The only committment he had at that point was to his daughters and nobody else.




> even his cheating wife.


Wrong. The day she didn't honor her committment is the day he had no responsibility to her.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Dexter Morgan said:


> I didn't consider his character a cuckold, because to be a cuckold, one would have to continue putting up with a cheating spouse. She wasn't cheating anymore, obviously
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First others have referred to Matt King as a cuckold, not you. I am responding to posts in general.

I get it, you're hurt and can't look at this objectively. 

Yes I posted this to provoke (where you get that Idea, please let me know).... You DM are the one who likes to provoke. 

Anyone who has liked the movie you seem very upset about it. I take it you feel the same about the 89% of film critics who gave it a positive rating and those who nominated it for Academy Awards?

I posted it here as I really liked the movie and how they portrayed the affair. This was not a Hallmark romance or a Mystery/Legal Thriller (Presumed Innocent & Unfaithful).

I will say again as someone in their late 40's, teens, 20-30 years with my spouse it is something that spoke to me. Sorry you seem to have a problem with that DM.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Dexter Morgan said:


> Those that gave it good ratings must have been cheaters.


Or, y'know, people examining it from a storytelling and filmmaking perspective.

I'm reminded of a conversation I had overture weekend. A friend and I were discussing the work of comics writer Alan Moore, perhaps best known to the general public as the writer of Watchmen, the comic mini-series that the movie of the same name was based on. In interviews regarding Watchmen, he was asked several times how he was able to write te character Rorschach so compellingly, when the character's politics, ideology and views on the world are so diametrically opposed to Moore's own. His response was that if he were only able to write characters well if they were just like him, that would make him a bad writer. By extension, we don't have to like or agree with the way a story in a movie, tv show or book plays out to be able to enjoy it on its own merits. It's a film critic's job to look at that larger picture, not simply at whether or not they think the characters did the right thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Anyone who has liked the movie you seem very upset about it. I take it you feel the same about the 89% of film critics who gave it a positive rating and those who nominated it for Academy Awards?


I have seen countless movies with at least a partial theme of infidelity. I have also seen many movies, tv shows, and news stories with some mention of child sexual abuse.

Before I had any personal knowledge of those things they meant nothing more to me than any other plot element. Now they are triggers for me, and so I choose to not watch them.

If people like the movie, great. If it is a piece of art and wins all kinds of awards, fine. If others here like it, that's ok too. If it glamorizes infidelity or sets out to make the BS husband as at fault, I would be disappointed.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> First others have referred to Matt King as a cuckold, not you. I am responding to posts in general.
> 
> I get it, you're hurt and can't look at this objectively.


No, you don't get it. I am long past hurt. I got rid of the source of the pain.

Secondly, what is there to be objective about when people come here belching platitudes of praise in a CWI forum of a movie that shows a BS that turns the other cheek. You knew what you were doing when you posted this thread, which is the same reason why you dodge the questions of your status here, cheater? OM/OW? BS? WS?

Your refusal to acknowledge tells us your true intent. Objective? please.




> Anyone who has liked the movie you seem very upset about it. I take it you feel the same about the 89% of film critics who gave it a positive rating and those who nominated it for Academy Awards?


Their nominations are more than likely coming from the standpoint of acting and the story in general. Not that "this is how a BS should behave". I gather you love the idea of a humbled BS.




> I posted it here as I really liked the movie and how they portrayed the affair.


And how, in your opinion, was it portrayed?




> I will say again as someone in their late 40's, teens, 20-30 years with my spouse it is something that spoke to me. Sorry you seem to have a problem with that DM.


What I have a problem with is someone coming into CWI with intent to show that this is how a BS should cowtow.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

michzz said:


> In order to protect his daughters he had to be discreet. Thrashing about publicly would not do that.


I already said the way he handled it with his kids was the only way to go. And one doesn't need to "thrash" about it pubicly and loudly to cease being a doormat, or whipped pup.




> If he had, say, beaten the OM to a bloody pulp, that would have put his children's future at risk--no matter how satisfying.


Nowhere did I say he should have done that, and would never advise it in real life. But he could have looked at the guy's wife and said, "your husband had an affair with my wife" and walked off.



> He chose to focus on their needs.


Their needs was to have a father and husband that didn't betray them in the first place.



> And following through with her final resting place was for those girls.
> 
> If you have children you may understand.


I do. And I wouldn't be the one to bury their mother after finding out she completely disrespected me and cheated on me. I'd respectfully tell her family that they need to make arrangements for their daughter and why.

My main issue with your previous post is that you thought a man that stood up for himself and would have handled things a little differently would be a "lesser man". The only lesser in the equation is the cheater.

Only way I would have considered him a lesser man is if he trashed his wife to his kids. Thats it. The other emotions and reactions he would have been entitled.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Dexter Morgan said:


> I already said the way he handled it with his kids was the only way to go. And one doesn't need to "thrash" about it pubicly and loudly to cease being a doormat, or whipped pup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe you have your nose a bit out of joint and are reading far more into my words than I intended.

A father of two young daughters, one quite naive, already dealing with the loss of their mother, as flawed as she was, did not need the potential violence of a combative confrontation.

If daddy got locked up for fighting that resulted in injury or worse? How would that be useful?

The character's resolve to protect them despite his own pain speaks volumes to me about the man portrayed.

The movie is about his reaction to protect his family.

If it meant sucking it up about the end if her life, he was up for the role.

Angry exchanges with relatives, friends, or the OM's family would be fruitless after a superficial moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

michzz said:


> Maybe you have your nose a bit out of joint and are reading far more into my words than I intended.


So you didn't intend to imply that a man who would have chosen a different way to handle the information of his wife's cheating, with the exception of not bringing the kid's into, is a lesser man? Those WERE your words.




> A father of two young daughters, one quite naive, already dealing with the loss of their mother, as flawed as she was, did not need the potential violence of a combative confrontation.


And when did I say anything about violence or "combative" confrontation. I merely said he should keep his emotions in check with the kids, but if he decided to tell the in laws that they will need to make arrangements for their daughter, I wouldn't blame him. He would not be a "lesser man" for deciding to not add insult to his injury.




> If daddy got locked up for fighting that resulted in injury or worse? How would that be useful?


It wouldn't. How many times do I have to say I would never condone physical violence?




> The character's resolve to protect them despite his own pain speaks volumes to me about the man portrayed.


Yes, and as admirable as it is, it wouldn't make him a lesser man if he told the inlaws they need to make her arrangments.




> The movie is about his reaction to protect his family.


And he could have still done that if he decided a different course of action, aside from physical violence or public exposure.




> If it meant sucking it up about the end if her life, he was up for the role.
> 
> Angry exchanges with relatives, friends, or the OM's family would be fruitless after a superficial moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again, not talking about angry exchanges with relatives. Now calling a spade a spade with regards to the so-called friends who decided to keep him in the dark about his betrayal, and the wife friend who probably coddled her throughout her affair is a different matter.

He wouldn't have been a "lesser man" if he decided to give them a piece of his mind.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Holding up a skank ho of a wife and mother like she's some kind of saint just because she's sick is also pretty toxic and twisted.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

michzz said:


> I don't disagree that there are many moments in the movie where an angry expression of what had transpired would have been hard to NOT do.
> 
> However, again, the alternative to his restraint is escalation with all the attendant potential for violence.


Not at all, as I've already stated. Like I said, if he were me, I'd have not handled my composure and words around my children any differently, but would make it known to the inlaws that I will not be responsible for her arrangements and why.

And as far as the OM, not sure I'd have even bothered to look for him, but if I did, I'd simply give his wife the information she deserves, and leave. No violence.

But then again, I'd be a "lesser man" if I handled it that way, eh?





> As for the jerk FIL, he had no boundaries and would have, in my estimation, caused drama moments that would include his grand daughters in negativity.


Not the BS's problem or responsibility. A man in the BS's position only is responsible for how he wants to handle things from that point on. Its wasn't his responsibility to keep laying down out of fear what the FIL would have done.




> If you think I am for rug sweeping coddling of cheaters, you really do not follow my postings.
> 
> I am all for protecting small children from the ugliness of life--as this character seems to be trying to do.


And again, I wouldn't have handled my kids any differently than his character did. But that doesn't mean I have to lay down and take it up the arse either. With the exception of lashing out just a little at the friends that kept him in the dark, they made him out to be a wimp, as others have said.



> You can quote my comments all you want. I don't take them back. read them in context of my entire post, don't pull out words and twist to suit your idea of what i said.


I didn't twist a thing. You said a "lesser man" would have handled things differently than Clooney's character did. Therefore, if I had decided to do the exact same thing as he did, with the exception of calmly explaining to the in-laws why they need to make arrangements for their daughter, I'd be a "lesser man". 

I don't think so.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

OneMan said:


> So if you know that then you'd know that just because he had kids doesn't mean he wasn't allowed to express his anger. Him getting angry doesn't automatically mean violence.


And it doesn't make him a lesser man.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

michzz said:


> Expressing anger to an OM, no 100% certainty, of course.
> 
> Potential to escalate? Huge!
> 
> And the churn getting back to the child? Very likely.


Uh, he did express anger to the OM, in his own teeth gritting way.

He simply didn't try to take a swing at him.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I wanted to ignore you DM, but it is obvious that there is only one way to handle an affair when confronted in your opinion.

The woman was dying (actually days from dead). But your view is to sh&t on her grave and memory even though she is gone. Obviously she was (as we all are) a flawed person. 

Her father too was flawed, but we see the love he has for his wife (suffering herself). Why does he need to know about the affair? Probably would have approved it, but that is another discussion all together.

The point of my OP and the movie, is we really know almost nothing about the family at all. For all we know Clooney may have beat her or not have had sex with her for 8 years and emotionally vacuous (extremes yes, but we know absolutely nothing), and are just given little vignettes and insights.

We are left to make our own decision as to what MAY have happened and that is what I took from the film.

Also listen to the scene where he screams and vents at her comatose body when he finds out about the affair.

I get it, no affair is acceptable. That was not the point why I posted at all. 

Your hate is palpable.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I wanted to ignore you DM, but it is obvious that there is only one way to handle an affair when confronted in your opinion.


No, there are several ways to handle it. But none of them include violence or acting like wimp.




> The woman was dying (actually days from dead). But your view is to sh&t on her grave and memory even though she is gone.


Not at all, I simply said that he shouldn't be responsible for the arrangements of someone that sh&t on him.



> Obviously she was (as we all are) a flawed person.


But not all of us cheat. 



> Her father too was flawed, but we see the love he has for his wife (suffering herself).


Sure, that is his daughter. Far cry from a husband. And the wife didn't f**k over her father, she f**ked over her husband.



> Why does he need to know about the affair?


He had no idea. It was his daughter that told him.



> *Probably would have approved it*, but that is another discussion all together.


LMFAO. Ok, now I can ignore what you write out of the sheer ridiculousness of what you just said.



> The point of my OP and the movie, is we really know almost nothing about the family at all. For all we know Clooney may have beat her or not have had sex with her for 8 years and emotionally vacuous (extremes yes, but we know absolutely nothing), and are just given little vignettes and insights.


Still no excuse for cheating. And in any case, you are just assuming. If that were the case in the movie, it would have came out, and the daughter would have had a talk with him about it. Obviously with his flat affect, he was not an abuser.

But you go ahead and make assumptions to make your justifications for cheating.




> We are left to make our own decision as to what MAY have happened and that is what I took from the film.


What happened is she cheated on her husband. Pure and simple.




> Also listen to the scene where he screams and vents at her comatose body when he finds out about the affair.


I did. I loved that part About the only part in the movie that didn't have me wanting to get up and leave.



> I get it, no affair is acceptable.


Uh huh, thats why you just tried to justify her affair with assumptions of neglect and physical violence



> That was not the point why I posted at all.


Based on who you are, and reading your defense of alot of cheaters on this board, I'm not the only one that knows why you really posted this here.



> Your hate is palpable.


Oh no, how will I ever sleep at night knowing someone of your character decided to take that swipe at me 
:lol:


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Oh, Havesomethingtosay, here is what you told someone whose wife had no sex drive



> You should dump her or have an affair


I now know you are a despicable person to even suggest such. Someone with no sex drive isn't an evil person, it could very well be a medical problem, whatever. 

And the kicker here is, this was after she had to go through chemo and just beat breast cancer. How utterly despicable of you! She had cancer for god's sake.

If he wasn't getting sex, then parting ways may have been an option, but to suggest to have an affair and hurt her? Get real. His wife needed HELP, not a husband that is going to listen to some jackass on an internet forum telling him he needs to cheat on her. I'm glad there are people out there that know how to stand by their significant others.

So now I know, along with your refusal to acknowledge your background, that you are a cheater, OM/OW, or both.

So of course you like a movie where a betrayed spouse folded like a cheap suit.

So now we know the type of person Havesomethingtosay is. Someone that advises a husband to cheat on his ailing wife, a wife that had to deal with having cancer. Nice, real nice.

Maybe thats what happened, Clooney's character had cancer, and as a result had no sex drive and deserved to be cheated on.

And I have hate? Sorry, you are a despicable person.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Havingsomething to say, I originally posted on this movie a few weeks ago. I don't think you should apologize for this thread. Obviously, it brought out a lot of different reactions from all of us. I agree that it was a thoughtful story, and in many ways, I identified w/ Geo Clooney's character. But it was quite a trigger, and it kicked my a$$ for a few days. It's good to have this place to vent.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

river rat said:


> Havingsomething to say, I originally posted on this movie a few weeks ago. I don't think you should apologize for this thread. Obviously, it brought out a lot of different reactions from all of us. I agree that it was a thoughtful story, and in many ways, I identified w/ Geo Clooney's character. But it was quite a trigger, and it kicked my a$$ for a few days. It's good to have this place to vent.


And nobody is asking HSTS to apologize for the thread.

But when its taken into the realm of "this is how a BS should act", or from someone else that any other reaction would have made him a "lesser man"(therefore calling anyone here at this site who handled it differently), is a slap in the face to the BS here, or anywhere.

The only people he had an obligation to put things aside, were his kids. As far as everyone else, he had no obligation, but to himself in his temperament if he did decide to make it known that he washed his hands of her.

Although it pisses me off, my pain ended a long time ago over my x-wife's cheating, because she is no longer significant to me. But BS here have a hard enough time without certain people trying to make them think if they decided to expose, walk away, or tell the OM's wife what happened, that they are lesser people because of it.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Dex, you are absolutely right. We all have that obligation to our kids. Makes the decisions really gut wrenching. And as long as we do not physically harm another, no one should judge us for our decisions under these circumstances. I hear you.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

river rat said:


> Dex, you are absolutely right. We all have that obligation to our kids. Makes the decisions really gut wrenching. And as long as we do not physically harm another, no one should judge us for our decisions under these circumstances. I hear you.


Since the day I divorced my x-wife, I never told the kids why. If they ask me some day why, when they get older, I won't lie to them. I'll tell them my reasons. But I won't use derogatory language about her, other than the truth(that she cheated throughout the marriage), and then I'll drop it. No anger, no hatred. Just the straight up truth in a calm fashion.

If they never ask, I'll never say a word.

But trust me, I did tell it like it was to her own father. Her father agreed and thinks she has a hole in her head. Only reason I told her father is because he came to see me a couple of times and wanted to know what went on.


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

I watched this movie with my husband who also had an affair a couple of years ago, I didn't realize this was the plot I thought it was a wayward dad who had to learn to take care of his kids.
I was surprised as I am at times now a days everything and every show seems to have an affair in the jist of the show........
It saddens me that this is our society now and that that kind of betrayal is so common.........
My husband cried through the whole movie........I think he could see himself in the destruction the marriage was in when it should have been a supportive time for a love one....
I didn't cry as a BS I thought it was good for my husband to see it from another family's view point and how pointless and unneccessary the pain caused by the affair was........
I also thought it was good for him to see that it has affected the whole family and that the children also have their own view points of what is right and moral, I think a lot of affair people don't actually think it affects their children........
It all saddens me that something so selfish ruins lives and changes people for the rest of their lives. I know I am forever changed and my boys are too...........And worst of all is the changes it has brought to my husband's life........
He disrespected himself the most and everything about him and the way everyone views him has been affected......
It is just a waste and pointless .........
I think the movie is a huge trigger for anyone that has experienced this kind of pain but I also think it can be educational as well for a wayward spouse.........
sometimes looking in on things has a better meaning then trying to see it in your own life..........
I think the fact that the wife's OM didn't really have any feelings for her is very sad that families are ruined for no reason......pointless deception and betrayal..........
I think triggers are hard to live through but it does bring the cruelty of infidelity to the for front and that is a good thing if it is a learning experience.....


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## reginacole (Mar 3, 2012)

This is from my experience

From Imperial. 
I have said numerous times I hate my husband. I have not had a job in years. I have children and teenagers are my closes friends. I know that I am obsessed with him. I have gone to amazing lengths to get his attention. I have tried to make him believe his wife is cheating with anonymous calls. Everything I do I can not get him to break away from her. I even set up a 2nd Facebook hoping to get his attention, he did not respond to my friend request and it broke my heart all over again. 
I have sent him my nude pictures, of my nipple rings of me in purple lingerie. Nothing has worked. I told him that it was his wife, so he would think she was crazy. 
I have sent him love notes, when he went to the therapist for marriage counseling I cre papered his truck and put a love note under the windshield. We had the best sex. She doesnt deserve him
Regina Cahan-Cole


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

I watched the movie and I am a BS, I thought that the husband showed a lot of restraint in a very difficult situation......he did chose to protect his children from their father acting like a lunatic even though he had every right......
I think he had to realize his mistakes in the marriage as well as deal with a woman that had betrayed him while she was in need.....He had to control the anger and force himself to feel the compassion to stick by his vows to take care of his wife.....in good times and bad........
I think the curiousity of the OM/OW is something we all feel and finding the answers to what the relationship meant to our spouses and what our lives were because of the marriage and the affair....
confronting the OM took courage and It showed that he would stand up for his marriage and his kids lives.........It was sad that the relationship meant nothing to the OM except some fun and sex......
Sad a marriage vow is destroyed for useless reason.
I think the strength of the daughter was amazing and the choice to confront her mother and stand up for her father and family was commendable. She obviously had learned the jist of what is right and acceptable in the world around her.......
I think that even though the husband was hurting by the betrayal and the lies he somehow was trying to do what was best for his wife and what was importnat to her, that is love through a difficult situation and a love for his children.......
I think the husband of the best friend showed that doing the right thing is always the right choice as well......knowing he had a right to know what happened to his marriage and life...
I think you see a lot of the anger associated with this kid of betrayal from many sides, the husband the kids, the OM's wife.
you see how it changes lives and destroys one's safety.......
My husband cried through the whole movie he is a wayward and I think the destruction he saw in the movie and the kid angle was an eye opener for him, he sees some of the same destruction in our lives as well
I am a little disappointed that affairs are so prominent in movies and tv shows. Maybe they always were there maybe I just didn't notice but I never thought that could be the life I could ever be living.............


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Just watched this with the wife this afternoon after her medical treatment


The most commendable part of the movie was that infidelity wasn't glamorized like it usually is in most Hollywood films

While the characters didn't do things the way they "should have" it was indeed much more realistic to how people behave when dealing with infidelity


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

the guy said:


> Wasn't Harrison Ford in the one were he kills the OM and him and his wife stay together and she helps him out when the cops question him.


Nope - Richard Benjamin in "Unfaithful"

I actually like how The Descendants uncovered the reason for the daughter's self destructive behavior stemmed from her seeing her mother with the OM and her conflict about telling/not telling her father. It shows that the damage of an affair is not limited to the spouses involved. Liked the movie but - yeah - could be a big time trigger.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> Nope - Richard Benjamin in "Unfaithful"


Correction, it was Richard Gere.


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> We don't know what happened or how the funeral was handled. That is not the point. I posted only as someone who was intrigued and interested in the film and how it would handle the situation. To call Clooney a cuckold I think is stretching it. How he handled the affair I found very thought provoking as he had to handle not just an affair, but his wife's death all at once, all the while she was still in a coma.
> 
> Yes we know there is no excuse for an affair, but the questions brought up and the lack of answers I did find thoroughly interesting.


I really enjoyed this movie. I dont come from a marriage of infidelity so it was not disturbing to me and I was not biased in that regard.

Very thought provoking regarding all the inter-relationships that Clooney had to deal with. In the first scene his voice-over paints the picture - his wife and him have been distant for some time now, and he is making a point to regain their closeness. He talks about his philosophy in "giving just enough for his kids to do something, and not too much for them to do nothing at all". 

The philosophy is questioned time and time again in the film, with wife's death, kids, and his cousins.

To answer you question though, I see the film with a different perspective- Clooney idolized a person who was working to gain a name for himself, rather than inheriting his position in society. The person who strived to make a name for himself was successful in business and in his personal life. He was likable and people drew towards him. It is suprising this person was only in the film for 10 mins. and all we get was his reaction to Clooney confronting him. 

On a side note-I left the threatre uncertain if the OM intention with Clooney's wife was a direct result of the transaction of property between the cousins and orgainzation that ultimately Clooney refused, after he confronted the OM. 

Clooney's wanting to re-connect, then shock of the coma, the feelings of betrayal turned to remorse of her affair, and the show he had to up hold during this whole exerience towards her freiends and family was remarkable. He continued to want his wife respected (not allowing people to know about affair, etc.) for being the devoted mother the family thought of her was trruly remarkable.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Humble Pie said:


> I really enjoyed this movie. I dont come from a marriage of infidelity so it was not disturbing to me and I was not biased in that regard.
> 
> Very thought provoking regarding all the inter-relationships that Clooney had to deal with. In the first scene his voice-over paints the picture - his wife and him have been distant for some time now, and he is making a point to regain their closeness. He talks about his philosophy in "giving just enough for his kids to do something, and not too much for them to do nothing at all".
> 
> ...


Agree & disagree. I think something as simple as seeing him driving a Accord gave a glimpse as to who he was. His father in-laws comments about him being less then a perfect husband such as him not spending his/their money to enjoy the fruits of their labour so his wife could have a better boat or equipment to indulge her passions again highlighted some issues that may have arisen in their marriage.

The affair, not sure if it was about sex, love or to get closer to the land sale amongst other things.

I think the fact there are so few explanations for the "affair" or knowing what happened between them to get to this point, was what made it interesting to me.


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

Just watched this movie yesterday with my wife. I think we've been doing better overall, but this one led to some uncomfortable discussion between us. I think I'd just gotten to the point of accepting that what my wife had was bad but not cheating, but her reaction to this movie makes me question that now. Anyway, very good movie. I realize this thread has petered out now but despite everything I think films like this can help if you're in the right state of mind and things aren't too recent.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I saw the film last night. I don't know what to think to be honest. The thing that stuck out with me the most wasn't his handling of the affair but the larger picture of forgiveness. I don't know how I'd react if I found out about the affair after seeing my wife like that. It was very difficult to watch the last scenes and it actually made me question a lot of things. 

Certainly if I was a husband like Clooney it would've been much easier to forgive my wife knowing that I took her for granted and neglected her but at the same time, the fact she willingly destroyed such a young family for her own selfish ends took away some of the sympathy I had for her. Overall the picture of her fading away without life support is just so overwhelming , it's hard not feel pity for her in the end.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

TRy said:


> The Harrison Ford movie was called "Presumed Innocent". In this movie, Harrison Ford's affair partner (AP) was murdered. Harrison Ford, working for the district attorney's office, is the first one to notice that there is evidence framing him for the murder that he did not commit. He must solve the case without letting anyone know about the affair.
> 
> SPOILER ALERT!! In the end we learn it is his wife that killed the AP and Ford covers it up for her. The confrontation with the wife is chilling.


There's also another infidelity themed movie with Harrison Ford as the WS who kills his OW when she threatens to expose the affair.



What Lies Beneath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I loved this movie so much.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Complexity, I know this is an old thread, but your comment is new.

I'm guessing that you have never watched someone that you love fade away in a coma.

I know that it's canon here on TAM that an affair is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a marriage, but it's really not. And that was, I think, the point of the movie. People in marriages do stupid things, sometimes very bad things, sometimes just foolish things...but at the end, it comes down to a person dying in a bed. As we all will.

I thought it was a brilliant film that didn't get nearly enough attention.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

lamaga said:


> I thought it was a brilliant film that didn't get nearly enough attention.




It was nominated for 5 Oscars and won for Best Writing for an Adapted Screenplay.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Some "experts" say infidelity is tougher to recover from than death of a loved one because of the volitional betrayal, the vititation of memories, the breach of trust, and the constant reminder due to your continued interaction with the cheater.
I realize there was a suggestion that the husband's distance/neglect was a factor in the state of the marriage. But, there also seemed to be a countervailing narcissism suggested about the wife, particularly evidenced by the older daughter's original lambasting of her in the early scenes. Something about the mom spending a lot of $$ on massages and other things vs on the family.
If the woman was raised by her incredibly doting, kid worshippng dad( he , apparently rejected his son for being gay, and this woman was put on a pedestal as a kid), a true bigotted insensitve monster, it is no wonder she was NPD.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> But, there also seemed to be a countervailing narcissism suggested about the wife, particularly evidenced by the older daughter's original lambasting of her in the early scenes. Something about the mom spending a lot of $$ on massages and other things vs on the family.
> If the woman was raised by her incredibly doting, kid worshippng dad( he , apparently rejected his son for being gay, and this woman was put on a pedestal as a kid), a true bigotted insensitve monster, it is no wonder she was NPD.


Dude. It is not that deep. It's just a movie George Clooney made. 

It's Friday. Drinks, anyone? Lol.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Dude. It is not that deep. It's just a movie George Clooney made.
> 
> It's Friday. Drinks, anyone? Lol.


Oh, you can bet the writers intended for it to be that deep. Movies are created for entertainment sure but don't be so sure that the intention wasn't to convey a message or to get people to think.

Three guesses what industry I'm in.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I was talking about how personally Liam seemed to be taking it. But thanks for the sidenote


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

I liked the movie. It informed how I handled my discovery of my wife's affair, because I saw it on a plane on my way to see her.

The Matt King character (Clooney) was admirable. The scene where he bites his tongue while his father-in-law was ranting and insulting him was an inspiration.

My own inclination is to seek out things in art and literature that might inform how I deal with a problem, not avoid them because they might produce an emotional response.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I was talking about how personally Liam seemed to be taking it. But thanks for the sidenote


HUH?


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

And if his wife did not have the accident, would he have ever discovered the affair (probably because the daughter knew) or recognized his wife slipping away? That is what I wonder.

Like many here, George Clonney's character is a decent guy, hard working, a "straight arrow". He however was negligent, did not live life and definitely somewhat stingy. But really was he a good husband & father?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

I do not think Clooney was negligent or stingy. Thye had a beautiful house. Appeared the wife did not work and had a lot of outside interests. He did not want his kids to grow up becoming indulged brats.
He indicated he was dissatisfied with his wife, as she was with him. Many of the BSs here are in that boat,often being less the source of the problems in the marriage thnan the cheater. Yet, Clooney did not cheat.
I think you have to taqke the wife's dad's characterization of Clooney's stinginess with a grain of salt. Even though the dad was in pain, his abusiveness was incredible.
I really liked how the kids became close to their dad. I thought, now , with the cheater gone, he might meet a better partner.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> I do not think Clooney was negligent or stingy. Thye had a beautiful house. Appeared the wife did not work and had a lot of outside interests. He did not want his kids to grow up becoming indulged brats.
> He indicated he was dissatisfied with his wife, as she was with him. Many of the BSs here are in that boat,often being less the source of the problems in the marriage thnan the cheater. Yet, Clooney did not cheat.
> I think you have to taqke the wife's dad's characterization of Clooney's stinginess with a grain of salt. Even though the dad was in pain, his abusiveness was incredible.
> I really liked how the kids became close to their dad. I thought, now , with the cheater gone, he might meet a better partner.


The stinginess was shown in him driving an Accord and his own admission. He was certainly not a bad person, just one who started to let the marriage wane.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

What gets me is a couple weeks before DDay, I sat
down and watched the movie "Closer" with my wife.

Looking back, I can't imagine what was going on inside
of her head while we were watching it. It was intense.

I can't see myself watching a movie that relates to cheating right now. It's too soon.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> The stinginess was shown in him driving an Accord and his own admission. He was certainly not a bad person, just one who started to let the marriage wane.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Frugal not stingy.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Loves,
I sometimes wonder why my perceptions of people are so profoundly different than other peoples. Before we both question my sanity, I have made a very good living in technology sales where the sales cycles are very long. So I am confident that at least "in a business" context I understand folks pretty well. 

IMO the movie portrayed Clooney as:
Responsible, perceptive and effective. He did a great job with his teenage daughter and was rather clever and funny in dealing with her boyfriend. There was some ridiculous comment about the viewers not knowing if he "abused" his wife. Really? WTF. The guy was very even keel. Even in the confrontation with the OM - he was not violent - despite being so angry. He was maybe too serious - and not playful enough for his wife, but a great guy. 

And the wife was shown - albeit much less directly as:
A spoiled, materialistic woman - who was angry that her H wanted to limit their spending to what he EARNED as a successful lawyer. They lived in a beautiful house. She felt entitled to a giant inheritance. She was portrayed as that playful/fun person who was also very immature and self indulgent. 





lovesherman said:


> Yes, each person brings his/her experiences to movies and songs, and if you have lived through infidelity your reaction will be very different than if you can watch this movie without personal baggage.
> 
> I thought the infidelity was being used as a metaphor for how George Clooney's character missed what is important in life. He buried himself in work, and did not pay attention to his wife and daughters. He also had to decide whether or not to sell out to development interests. Should he keep ancestral, beautiful land, or give in to greed?
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have,
This is pathetic beta justification (by you) of a spoiled wife who cheated on her very decent husband. Many of the people in my neighborhood drive really modest cars. Some of us chose to "speed pay" our mortgages, others to accelerate our retirement. And some think flashy cars are a waste of money. 

He NEVER said he was stingy - he said he felt they should live within their means - of what he EARNED - which as we all saw was a very nice life style. And she was RESENTFUL that he wasn't in a hurry to access his inheritance. 




Havesomethingtosay said:


> The stinginess was shown in him driving an Accord and his own admission. He was certainly not a bad person, just one who started to let the marriage wane.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Have,
> This is pathetic beta justification (by you) of a spoiled wife who cheated on her very decent husband. Many of the people in my neighborhood drive really modest cars. Some of us chose to "speed pay" our mortgages, others to accelerate our retirement. And some think flashy cars are a waste of money.
> 
> He NEVER said he was stingy - he said he felt they should live within their means - of what he EARNED - which as we all saw was a very nice life style. And she was RESENTFUL that he wasn't in a hurry to access his inheritance.


I think you are missing the point. Yes they lived a nice life, but did not LIVE and enjoy life. The movie gave no indication one way or another of the issues in their marriage and left that to us. Again Mem11363 we know you are damn close to perfect - successful, good looking, physically fit and a loving husband.... You tell us that all the time in your pronouncements. 

I think you gloss over the father in-laws comments, particularly the boat and how it contributed to the accident, and her best friend, who knew of the affair and encouraged the affair because something was missing. Was it right.... No, but George Clooney never addressed it either. Heck he was completely oblivious to the affair and disintegration of their marriage.

I think the point was they lived WELL INSIDE THEIR MEANS amongst other things.....

And exactly why am I beta to say so??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> Heck he was completely oblivious to the affair and disintegration of their marriage


Also knows as blameshifting. He had to he soooo horrible to be blinsided... WTF


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Spending enough money on your spouse has nothing to do with her cheating. Purchasing a boat would not have pervented it.
Presumably, she married the guy for himself, not his wealth. If he was a mealticket and she wanted more material things, shje could have divorced. 
Clooney's character, apparently, made decent enough $$ to afford her the luxury of staying home, getting facials etc while her kids were old enough to be in school. Even if he was dirt poor and would not spend $$, since when is it the husband's obligation to buy his wife's love?
As for the friend not telling him, that is not at all uncommon as the friend was hearing her version of the truth only.
The dad seemed to think that his daughter, who seemd to have plenty of leisure time, was entitled to the princess treatment.
I guess anyone with money who drives an accord and lives on his salary should watch out.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Spending enough money on your spouse has nothing to do with her cheating. Purchasing a boat would not have pervented it.
> Presumably, she married the guy for himself, not his wealth. If he was a mealticket and she wanted more material things, shje could have divorced.
> Clooney's character, apparently, made decent enough $$ to afford her the luxury of staying home, getting facials etc while her kids were old enough to be in school. Even if he was dirt poor and would not spend $$, since when is it the husband's obligation to buy his wife's love?
> As for the friend not telling him, that is not at all uncommon as the friend was hearing her version of the truth only.
> ...


Missing the point again. We have no idea what happened and it is all conjecture. There are some pieces to the puzzle and we are left to fill in the blanks. 

I get it an affair is inexcusable regardless. A husband or wife can neglect their spouse be emotionally and physically unavailable (I.e. Working more than they have to or golfing or out with the guys). 

Can't argue with you as it is always the woman's fault.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Missing the point again. We have no idea what happened and it is all conjecture. There are some pieces to the puzzle and we are left to fill in the blanks.
> 
> I get it an affair is inexcusable regardless. A husband or wife can neglect their spouse be emotionally and physically unavailable (I.e. Working more than they have to or golfing or out with the guys).
> 
> ...


I just think you took all kinds of liberties making assumptions about the guy in oreder to blame him.
Just look at that absurd observation where you equated driving an accord with being stingy. That makes no sense whatsoever.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have,
If you read my post again, I believe you will see that I made an observation about the way people spend discretionary income. What was in my post about my:
- success (surely the fact that I own a house does not imply success - not in the US where most people own houses)
- appearance
- fitness level
- husbandly love

As to why I commented about you being beta - well that is very simple. You are chronically angry because your wife isn't willing to go "the extra mile" for you. Instead of solving that problem - which would require alpha traits - you come on here and lash out at others. Safe way to vent your anger - just doesn't solve the problem. 



Havesomethingtosay said:


> I think you are missing the point. Yes they lived a nice life, but did not LIVE and enjoy life. The movie gave no indication one way or another of the issues in their marriage and left that to us. Again Mem11363 we know you are damn close to perfect - successful, good looking, physically fit and a loving husband.... You tell us that all the time in your pronouncements.
> 
> I think you gloss over the father in-laws comments, particularly the boat and how it contributed to the accident, and her best friend, who knew of the affair and encouraged the affair because something was missing. Was it right.... No, but George Clooney never addressed it either. Heck he was completely oblivious to the affair and disintegration of their marriage.
> 
> ...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Missing the point again. We have no idea what happened and it is all conjecture. There are some pieces to the puzzle and we are left to fill in the blanks.
> 
> I get it an affair is inexcusable regardless. A husband or wife can neglect their spouse be emotionally and physically unavailable (I.e. Working more than they have to or golfing or out with the guys).
> 
> ...


Not always to woman's fault.

It IS always the fault of the cheating spouse however.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Have,
> If you read my post again, I believe you will see that I made an observation about the way people spend discretionary income. What was in my post about my:
> - success (surely the fact that I own a house does not imply success - not in the US where most people own houses)
> - appearance
> ...


I've said very little on TAM about my marriage. I've been careful not to so that people don't slough off what I say based on my "story". The most I have said is I don't have as much sex as I want and I certainly can't keep up with many here on TAM and their appetites 

The comment about the Accord is that it is a very functional car (I own one). The placement of the car was certianly specifically done to make an impact on one's opinion of the character. For all we know the wife may have had a bmw or a mercedes. The fact an affluent successful lawyer chose an Accord and if I remember with cloth interior was meant to make a point. 

Mem11363 you above had to mention your socio economic position in addition to your many posts bragging about your appearance and physical features. Its just the way you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Well, I guess I need some clarification as to the significance of the accord.
I agree, it was chosen to demonstrate that the man was frugal, or , perhaps chosen to demonstrate that he was not terribly concerned with material trappings.
But, frugality or lack of concern with material possessions leading to his wife's cheating, I do not follow. I know many successful lawyers (I've practiced for almost 30 years, make a comfortable living etc) but my car is just a tool to get from point A to B.
But, now that you mention it, I think my XW may have pointed to my fnancial conservatism as justification for her cheating.
But, i think that reflects poorly on her vs mre bbeing cheap.
Like the wife in the film, my wife stayed home and had mors material goods than many woman. Her main interests were shopping and tanning.
Remeber, the wife in this movie, despite having been busted by her impressionable daughter, never quit the affair, never showed remorse, and simply shipped the daughter back to school without getting her counseling or doing anything to alleviate the trauma she inflicted on the child.
The gebder of the cheater in this film does not enter into my analysis. if the H was acting like the wife, I would feel he was a terrible parent, as well.
But, he supported his family and took all kinds of abuse , in silence , from the manaic father in law.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> IHeck *he was completely oblivious to the affair *and disintegration of their marriage.


Is this something you think BS's should be faulted for?

I was oblivious to my WW's affair for 3 months until the OM
slipped up and sent an errant text early in the a.m.

We had a great, normal sex life over those 3 months
like nothing else was going on. She was leading a separate life.
She was going crazy inside of herself and didn't tell me about it.
She compartmentalized it from the rest of the world.

Is that MY fault? Because she deceived and lied to me?

Kind of insulting if that's the case... although you're entitled to your opinion.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Maybe, just maybe, as a full functioning adult, the wife had a duty to express her dissatisfaction and take steps to make the marriage better.
remeber, in addition to the daughter being angry about her mom's cheating, the daughter also lashed out about the mom's superficiality.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Maybe, just maybe, as a full functioning adult, the wife had a duty to express her dissatisfaction and take steps to make the marriage better.
> remeber, in addition to the daughter being angry about her mom's cheating, the daughter also lashed out about the mom's superficiality.



There's no maybes about it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Liam,
This is exactly the way I saw it. The scene with the father in law was priceless. And the best part of it was him hammering clooney, for being cheap with her. Hmmm - she did not have to earn any money despite the fact that their two kids were in school. Only a dysfunctional first world culture could describe a man like that cheap. He provided his wife a beautiful home, the funds for private schooling at least one child, the freedom to not have to work. (while not explicit - the absence of any communication with an employer made that bit very clear). He also provided his wild, adventurous wife stability. Emotional stability. While she attempted to provide him/them with spontaneity and excitement. 

She cheated due to boredom, yawn, that was hard to decipher. To at least try for some balance, the movie shows him as viewing her from a parental angle, and ignoring the fact that her adventurousness, and love of excitement were the initial basis for attraction. 




BigLiam said:


> I do not think Clooney was negligent or stingy. Thye had a beautiful house. Appeared the wife did not work and had a lot of outside interests. He did not want his kids to grow up becoming indulged brats.
> He indicated he was dissatisfied with his wife, as she was with him. Many of the BSs here are in that boat,often being less the source of the problems in the marriage thnan the cheater. Yet, Clooney did not cheat.
> I think you have to taqke the wife's dad's characterization of Clooney's stinginess with a grain of salt. Even though the dad was in pain, his abusiveness was incredible.
> I really liked how the kids became close to their dad. I thought, now , with the cheater gone, he might meet a better partner.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Agreed,MEM. In some threads, one sees a sort of sexism toward males, urging them to be alpha, criticizing them for not being romantic enough or providing enough entertainment. In this case, there seems to be an assumption by Havesomething, that the husband had some sort of duty to dispense part of his inheritance to the wife, while she, essentially, brought nothing to the table, financially.
It boggles my mind that driving an accord, not buying her a boat, and living on what must have been a very decent income, is looked upon as somehow justifying/causing his wife's cheating.
It was obvious to me that the wife was an immature party girl type who felt enttitled to things. Otherwise, why no job?


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Agreed,MEM. In some threads, one sees a sort of sexism toward males, urging them to be alpha, criticizing them for not being romantic enough or providing enough entertainment. In this case, there seems to be an assumption by Havesomething, that the husband had some sort of duty to dispense part of his inheritance to the wife, while she, essentially, brought nothing to the table, financially.
> It boggles my mind that driving an accord, not buying her a boat, and living on what must have been a very decent income, is looked upon as somehow justifying/causing his wife's cheating.
> It was obvious to me that the wife was an immature party girl type who felt enttitled to things. Otherwise, why no job?


Again you're making assumptions as to what I think. The point of the movie was there was very little said and certainly the wife's side will never be known. I certainly don't expect her to spend the inheritance. What I expect is for a happily married couple to share experiences and to LIVE. Do not take my comments to be that I am indifferent and am taking the wife's side. I enjoyed the movie and how it handled the story. 

My disgust was their best friends and the husband knowing of the affair and at the least not warning him. 

You see a party girl, I see a wife unhappy and the husband oblivious. There were no answers, mostly questions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Liam,
I remember the first "big financonflict" my wife and I 

UOTE=BigLiam;814442]Agreed,MEM. In some threads, one sees a sort of sexism toward males, urging them to be alpha, criticizing them for not being romantic enough or providing enough entertainment. In this case, there seems to be an assumption by Havesomething, that the husband had some sort of duty to dispense part of his inheritance to the wife, while she, essentially, brought nothing to the table, financially.
It boggles my mind that driving an accord, not buying her a boat, and living on what must have been a very decent income, is looked upon as somehow justifying/causing his wife's cheating.
It was obvious to me that the wife was an immature party girl type who felt enttitled to things. Otherwise, why no job?[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I will make a new assumption since you are all convinced that is all I do. George Clooney was an abusive husband and alcoholic who couldn't get it up. She was a cold, unfeeling, moneygrubbing, shrew, who wanted to milk him for every penny and not just a cheater, but a serial cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Liam,
It sure seemed that most of their negative emotional "torque" was caused by her sense of entitlement as to the level of luxury he was expected to provide with no financial contribution from her at all. 

Any male with reasonable boundaries would either see that on their own, or recognize it when it is pointed out.



I remember the first major financial dustup my W and I had after she decided to be a SAHM. Up until that disagreement, it was smooth sailing because we have similar views on money, and we treated "our" money responsibly and lived well within our means. 

But this was a case of my W wanting to start giving money to someone who was living (and would continue to live) beyond their means. After a brief exchange I recall saying: 
If this is that important to you, you can work a part time job and use ALL the after tax, after expense (clothes, travel, other) income to support "this persons" lifestyle for as long as you wish. 

Long quiet period follows. And then my painfully honest wife says to me "I guess this isn't nearly as important to me as I thought". Not one to pile on I just remarked that her kindness and desire to help others was generally a very positive thing. And that sometimes it is hard to know what "help" is for an adult who is not managing their money and never has. Especially when that adult is a relative. 





BigLiam said:


> Agreed,MEM. In some threads, one sees a sort of sexism toward males, urging them to be alpha, criticizing them for not being romantic enough or providing enough entertainment. In this case, there seems to be an assumption by Havesomething, that the husband had some sort of duty to dispense part of his inheritance to the wife, while she, essentially, brought nothing to the table, financially.
> It boggles my mind that driving an accord, not buying her a boat, and living on what must have been a very decent income, is looked upon as somehow justifying/causing his wife's cheating.
> It was obvious to me that the wife was an immature party girl type who felt enttitled to things. Otherwise, why no job?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Again you're making assumptions as to what I think. The point of the movie was there was very little said and certainly the wife's side will never be known. I certainly don't expect her to spend the inheritance. What I expect is for a happily married couple to share experiences and to LIVE. Do not take my comments to be that I am indifferent and am taking the wife's side. I enjoyed the movie and how it handled the story.
> 
> My disgust was their best friends and the husband knowing of the affair and at the least not warning him.
> 
> ...


Good movie. Regardless of her side, she was not justified in cheating on her family and traumatizing her kids.
Can you beleive she just sent her daughter back to boarding school without getting her help? That speaks volumes about the woman, IMO.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Liam,
This stuff kills me. People posting about how "perceptive" they are and then using an example of the car a guy chooses FOR HIMSELF as proof he is stingy. This is a guy who is portrayed as spending most of the family income on his wife and kids - but since he isn't materialistic he is stingy.




BigLiam said:


> Good movie. Regardless of her side, she was not justified in cheating on her family and traumatizing her kids.
> Can you beleive she just sent her daughter back to boarding school without getting her help? That speaks volumes about the woman, IMO.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Liam,
> This stuff kills me. People posting about how "perceptive" they are and then using an example of the car a guy chooses FOR HIMSELF as proof he is stingy. This is a guy who is portrayed as spending most of the family income on his wife and kids - but since he isn't materialistic he is stingy.


Wow Mem11363 you really, really miss the point. Americans are very materialistic and cars often are representative of that. They all (many) buy above and beyond their means. An accord is a classic example of an "old man sedan" as we called mine. Very practical and specifically meant to show a point. This is the same as Larry David (worth $250 million) on Curb Your Enthusiasm driving a practical Prius Hybrid. He was worth and was inheriting many millions. Agreed he provided a very nice life for his family, but we were told so little. Maybe the book revealed more. 

Quit obsessing over a small detail to create an issue. I was only using it as a vehicle to validate my point. It was done purposefully. If he drove a lexus/mercedes/luxury vehicle no one would have batted an eye. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have,
Agreed. The movie seemed to imply that he did not meet her need for excitement. That need is valid and it is powerful. Lots of ways to meet it - if you are willing to acknowledge it as valid and important to your partner. 




Havesomethingtosay said:


> Wow Mem11363 you really, really miss the point. Americans are very materialistic and cars often are representative of that. They all (many) buy above and beyond their means. An accord is a classic example of an "old man sedan" as we called mine. Very practical and specifically meant to show a point. This is the same as Larry David (worth $250 million) on Curb Your Enthusiasm driving a practical Prius Hybrid. He was worth and was inheriting many millions. Agreed he provided a very nice life for his family, but we were told so little. Maybe the book revealed more. Quit obsessing over a small detail to create an issue. I was only using it as a vehicle to validate my point. It was done purposefully. If he drove a lexus/mercedes/luxury vehicle no one would have batted an eye. _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

BTW, Unfaithful was on last night and I will admit the 10 minutes I saw (my wife would never watch the movie) was precisely the point the spouse (Diane Lane) was seduced.

She is riding back on the train and they cut between the seduction, the sex, and vignettes of the appearance of an idealistic life at home with a loving husband and son, where they are affectionate, laughing and a family and it is jarring.

I can see how difficult that is to watch.

The Descendants however s much different.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

What you fail to see is the sense of entitlement the wife had that came from her FOO, specifically her father. You put a person, a spouse, on a pedestal and eventually he/she will deem you unworthy.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Wow Mem11363 you really, really miss the point. Americans are very materialistic and cars often are representative of that. They all (many) buy above and beyond their means. An accord is a classic example of an "old man sedan" as we called mine. Very practical and specifically meant to show a point. This is the same as Larry David (worth $250 million) on Curb Your Enthusiasm driving a practical Prius Hybrid. He was worth and was inheriting many millions. Agreed he provided a very nice life for his family, but we were told so little. Maybe the book revealed more.
> 
> Quit obsessing over a small detail to create an issue. I was only using it as a vehicle to validate my point. It was done purposefully. If he drove a lexus/mercedes/luxury vehicle no one would have batted an eye.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Folks keep missing your point, I guess.

I'll be trading in my Camray and getting a Lexus/mercedes, so my GF will not cheat on me. If I had only known about this cause and effect deal earlier...


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Yes you better buy a penis extender..... Obviously you may need t......

The point again was it is just a movie. The Accord was a prop meant to convey a point. Like Jim Rockford's Camaro, Magnum's Ferrari's, James Dean's Motorycles....... All very deliberate.....


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

What point were they trying to convey? You seem to be saying that being frugal leads to one's spouse cheating? Or, did I miss the point, again?


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## Good Dog (Mar 28, 2012)

The entitlement angle to the movie definitely bothered me since that seemed to be a theme with my WW as well. Maybe in order for someone to cheat they need such a feeling of things being "owed" to them to begin with.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Good Dog said:


> The entitlement angle to the movie definitely bothered me since that seemed to be a theme with my WW as well. Maybe in order for someone to cheat they need such a feeling of things being "owed" to them to begin with.


Mine, too. As I look back on it , my XW felt as if she deserved all types of things others did not and which she had not earned.
I do think there is a relationship between feeling entitled and cheating.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> What you fail to see is the sense of entitlement the wife had that came from her FOO, specifically her father. You put a person, a spouse, on a pedestal and eventually he/she will deem you unworthy.


That was my take on it too, when Clooney's character went to tell his in-laws. The jerk of a FIL berating Clooney, and talking about his princess and how he never deserved her pissed me off.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> That was my take on it too, when Clooney's character went to tell his in-laws. The jerk of a FIL berating Clooney, and talking about his princess and how he never deserved her pissed me off.


Well, you better buy an extender, too. You disagree with havesomething:flowerkitty::smcowboy::allhail:


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## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> Unfaithful was a good example of a woman with poor boundaries. She had a wonderful marriage with a loving husband, and she still chose to selfishly cheat because that French guy was so hot.


:iagree:



warlock07 said:


> And she gets angry when he cheats on her. I was extremely pissed off by that part. I wish the ending was more satisfying. She involved two men. One ended up being murderer and one murdered and she goes scot free.


Does he cheat on her too?? I don't really remember that part. Doesn't he just kill the other man???


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> That was my take on it too, when Clooney's character went to tell his in-laws. The jerk of a FIL berating Clooney, and talking about his princess and how he never deserved her pissed me off.


Many layers to the movie and *so so very little details* about the marriage. We do know George worked hard, was somewhat frugal and did not share his wife's hobbies. They also were to become extraordinarily wealthy. We don't know much more about him than that. 

We know she was somewhat of a free spirit, a daddy's girl, with at least one friend knowing about the affair and happily hiding it (as did her husband and George's friend). 

And she was a cheater..... That's all that counts in your book....


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Liam,
If someone is chronically sexually frustrated, it is easier to blame their situation on a choice of car - as opposed to their general willingness to take risks. It just feels better. This is the "I am semi-celibate because I am frugal" school of thought. 

It is wholly different than: I am too risk averse for my Wife - said risk aversion manifesting itself in many ways including being very frugal (financial caution), constantly reassuring (representing excessive emotional caution), etc. There is absolutely no way to externally help someone with that profile because they absolutely refuse to accept that the characteristics below reflect oppositional positions and are inherently hostile to one another:
- Maximizing emotional stability AND
- Generating genuine passion 

Careful observation shows consistent behavior across the board. While they complain about the lack of sex, they constantly work to ensure the relationship is totally stable - even keeled. This creates a household emotional temperature that is high enough to be good friends. Tolerable for their spouse as long as they aren't having too much contact. It is however a miserable temperature to have sex in. 

And the pedestal furniture you place, for them to stand on, creates a daily opportunity for them to look down on you, while you look up at them with love and admiration

You cannot enfore boundaries - real boundaries - while fully focusing on your partners comfort and constantly reassuring them that you love them, the marriage and by reference the way they are treating you. 

Impossible to Enforce marrital boundaries while staying far away from anything that might upset/aggitate you partner. 




BigLiam said:


> What point were they trying to convey? You seem to be saying that being frugal leads to one's spouse cheating? Or, did I miss the point, again?


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Liam,
> If someone is chronically sexually frustrated, it is easier to blame their situation on a choice of car - as opposed to their general willingness to take risks. It just feels better. This is the "I am semi-celibate because I am frugal" school of thought.
> 
> It is wholly different than: I am too risk averse for my Wife - said risk aversion manifesting itself in many ways including being very frugal (financial caution), constantly reassuring (representing excessive emotional caution), etc. There is absolutely no way to externally help someone with that profile because they absolutely refuse to accept that the characteristics below reflect oppositional positions and are inherently hostile to one another:
> ...



Oh my god you are full of it!!!!!

The Accord was a tool chosen specifically so one could make a judgement on the character. The same reason he is a lawyer & not a factory worker. 

The fact that you miss the point and the nuance, turn it into a veiled attack on my posts astounds me.

You are really full of your self.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Many layers to the movie and *so so very little details* about the marriage. We do know George worked hard, was somewhat frugal and did not share his wife's hobbies. They also were to become extraordinarily wealthy. We don't know much more about him than that.
> 
> We know she was somewhat of a free spirit, a daddy's girl, with at least one friend knowing about the affair and happily hiding it (as did her husband and George's friend).



You tell MEM11363 that he so full of it but you are no better.

The fact is that *lawyers pay scale range* is between $44,726 to $167,338. Hardly a rich man's salary.



> And she was a cheater..... That's all that counts in your book....


Damn right and when one day you become a member of our club, I'd like to see you come back and sing the same tune.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

I am a lawyer. Make about the max pay scale mori mentions. Yet, I drive a 4 year old Camray. Guess that is why my wife cheated(oh, and possibly because she is a sociopath, as well).


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I felt bad for the FIL - nothing worse than burying a daughter. He was a world class a-hole though and that came shining through. And for certain he fed the princess monster in his daughter. 




lordmayhem said:


> That was my take on it too, when Clooney's character went to tell his in-laws. The jerk of a FIL berating Clooney, and talking about his princess and how he never deserved her pissed me off.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have,
Some day I hope you realize the truth of it. I am not attacking you - I am describing you. While I find you a bit combative at times, I don't take it personally. Much easier for you to be that way with others, than with the actual source of your anger. 





Havesomethingtosay said:


> Oh my god you are full of it!!!!!
> 
> The Accord was a tool chosen specifically so one could make a judgement on the character. The same reason he is a lawyer & not a factory worker.
> 
> ...


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I haven't seen that movie yet.

I drive a piece of shat cavalier.

My wife had an affair.

...oh......

Crap!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

honda Civic is a huge step up from a Cavalier, you must be scum


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Have,
> Some day I hope you realize the truth of it. I am not attacking you - I am describing you. While I find you a bit combative at times, I don't take it personally. Much easier for you to be that way with others, than with the actual source of your anger.


What truth???? You don't know me. Like your posts, you make conjectures on all people's Sex Lives and state your views and hypothesis as fact. You are a self-professed guru who thinks you know what ails marriages, sex lives and have a paint by number solution for all. 

You are the one offended when people claim their spouse's have orgasms the vast majority of times, but sex is not as often or as satisfying as they wish. 

Trust me I look in the mirror plenty and am careful what & why I write. 

Maybe you should look in it too.....

By the way I feel bad for you if you drive a cavalier......


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> I haven't seen that movie yet.
> 
> I drive a piece of shat cavalier.
> 
> ...



Are you extremely wealthy too?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

aug said:


> Are you extremely wealthy too?


And, do you look like Clooney?

You better consult Havesomcraptosay to see what kind of car you need to get to prevent cheating.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I am glad that you get your W to the rapture most/all the time. I know I have gotten irritated with you on this topic, though I find it ironic that you don't understand why. 

My irritation stems from some logic that seems very flawed to me. It is the flawed logic that irritates. 



Havesomethingtosay said:


> What truth???? You don't know me. Like your posts, you make conjectures on all people's Sex Lives and state your views and hypothesis as fact. You are a self-professed guru who thinks you know what ails marriages, sex lives and have a paint by number solution for all.
> 
> You are the one offended when people claim their spouse's have orgasms the vast majority of times, but sex is not as often or as satisfying as they wish.
> 
> ...


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Logic? Very generous of you.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

aug said:


> Are you extremely wealthy too?


Sigh. I make a six figure salary. 

If I'd only known......

Lol. Actually, I'm still driving the same car I first bought 16 years ago. That piece o crap just refuses to die on me. Every time I see a nice new car on the road, i think it would be great to get a new one. But then I hear my dads voice in my head about "...things aren't disposable son! If it still works no sense wasting money on a new one!". Lol.

My WW kept the new 2012 SUV I bought for her, though. Again...lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrArachnid (May 3, 2012)

Wow...in my head I thought...'someone posted the song Clean Sheets by The Descendants.....yep not at all what was in my head.


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## MrArachnid (May 3, 2012)

The Descendents - Clean Sheets - YouTube

That was what I was thinking


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