# Great family, 4 kids, and unsure what to do



## stratdude (May 15, 2020)

I can't believe I'm here. I guess everyone says that. We have 4 school-aged children. Everyone thought we had the coolest family. You name it, we did it. RV trips, Disneyland, etc etc. She has a very large, very close family, and they all love me (I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but really, they do because they all respect me and love hanging out/talking to me). Her dad is like one of my best friends. Same story as so many. She was caught in an EA with a person from work, then everything was my fault. I didn't hold her hand enough. I didn't help with groceries. I didn't "let her be her". etc etc. The thing is, she has always been a total family person and loved being a mom and a wife. We both worked at the same place, and I decided to retire early (at 50) to take care of the kids and leave a very stressful/demanding job. Now, she doesn't know what she wants in life, and says she is unhappy because of "the way I allowed you to make me feel". She wants space, but she doesn't want to leave because she says she would be "abandoning the kids". We have been going to counseling but her emotional walls are up, so everything she says she wants (more hand holding, more affection, better listening) is almost impossible, because of her walls. Nobody in our LARGE circle of family and friends can understand what she is going through, and everyone I've talked to says they wish she would "snap out of this". It has shaken the entire family. When I talk to her, I swear it is like talking to a different person. Even her facial expression looks like someone else. We have not filed for D. We have not separated. But I think both/either is very possible, and even likely if nothing changes. 

I am going to individual counseling (aside from our joint counseling), to work on ME throughout this. I know there are things I can do better, and I do take some responsibility for things at times not being perfect (I am one of those people who dive headfirst into my hobbies, so I know I should have cherished her more). She also has one of those mean, abrasive personalities, and at times I took her jabbing personally instead of letting it go. The counselor I am seeing doesn't want to hear anything about her, and if I bring her up he turns it back around to me, to work on myself. It's been tough, because I am very upset, not only with the EA, but at the way she has distanced herself emotionally with me, and the way she seems to have lost her own identity and understanding of what will make her happy. Our four children know about the EA, and they are scared we will D, because things don't seem right in the house. This is so tough, because we had one of those families everyone noticed and enjoyed being around. This has shocked everyone. I have been sleeping on the couch for 3 months, because she needed "space" and made it weird if I slept in bed with her. Three of the kids sleep in the front room with me, like a slumber party, every night. So, every morning when she comes down stairs and goes to work, she sees us all sleeping in the front room. I know it effects her. You have to understand this woman is/was a family woman and wanted nothing more than to have a family, like her parents, and this is not the idea she had in mind for her life. I spend every day doing homework with the kids, with very little adult contact, and then she comes home and then veg's out. She spends a few moments with us, to make an appearance, and then disappears to have her space. We have decent small talk about things, like work or whatever (it is less strained lately). I feel this is a MLC, I am sure, but then again I think it is also her hard-headed nature, since she has spent so much time talking to everyone about our problems (So, I feel like if she gave in and committed to working things out it would make her look like the bad guy - she HATES to feel like people think she is wrong). Everyone is shocked, even people from work, because she used to brag about me to everyone, all the time. We were "that couple". Now, it's a mess. 

I have been trying to stay busy and work on me. I work out, play guitar, work in the yard, etc, even though it is hard. This has been difficult because I want to hold my wife, make love, etc, and this is like living with another dude. A cold, emotionless dude. Everything (intimacy) stopped as soon as I found out about the EA, and even though she says that is done, I have no way of knowing. I also kind of don't care, because I'm sure this guy doesn't want to deal with four kids, and an ex-husband everyone knew and respected. I was sooooo scared of a divorce, because I feel like who out there is going to want to date a 52 year old dude, even though I look young for my age, I am in very good shape, attractive, and I play in a popular band in the area (not sure if that means much, but hey it's something, no?). I've been avoiding talking to her about our relationship. I've been trying to 180, and detach, but I also get conflicting advice from some who say "fight for your marriage with everything you've got". I don't kiss her butt. I don't beg. I don't ask for answers or for assurance. I don't leave notes or follow her around. But, lately I am pissed off. Very. I deserve better, and I want to say "make a decision or file". I feel like after 3 months of this (the EA started 6 months ago), we have got nowhere, other than our time spent together is less strained. I know she doesn't trust me, because I'm sure she feels like if we talk about "things" I will make her feel guilty. I feel like the only thing that will snap her out of this is if she knows she is losing me and all this (house, property, etc). Or, in other words, if I call her bluff. I don't even know that I want things to work out I am so hurt, and it isn't because of the EA. It is the way she is dealing with this whole thing. She is like a train wreck right now, and in some identity crisis. 

My gut tells me things are repairable, because our problems were typical, annoying spouse problems. The good far outweighed the bad. But, I know my friends (and her family even) are all tired of seeing me like this, because it is the opposite of my typical personality. I am normally very confident, funny, etc. I feel like if I call her bluff, and I am willing to move on with my life, A) she will wake the f*** up, or B) I will somehow get through it but be proud that I didn't put up with being with someone who does not want to be with me. So, I don't know if I wait (and let her make the decisions), or if I push so I can get on with things.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sorry you're here, but welcome to TAM. You have a very informative initial post and well written. 

Digesting, for now it appears something in her alone time has changed her demeanor, that's a given as you already know.

Initially I'd make her sleep on the couch. 

A lot of good folks here. 

Care for yourself more at the moment. She's not so much right now and it may get worse.

Or it might get better, unknown at this point. 

But you have to start putting yourself first for now. And of course she'll say everything is your fault as she attempts to rewrite history or justify some of her potential wrong doings.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

So, why are YOU on the couch? If she wants space then she should be sleeping on the couch, not you. She's the cheater, she gets the couch. Inconvenience her, not yourself. 

I'm willing to bet that her EA isn't over, and you SHOULD care about that if you want to reconcile. She is never going to be all in with you if she has another guy in her head. It doesn't matter that he won't want "4 kids and the ex-husband around". As long as he's in the picture your marriage is toast. And quite frankly, he most likely just wants to **** her. Her having four kids and a husband really doesn't matter in that scenario.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

How old are your children?


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

stratdude said:


> I can't believe I'm here. I guess everyone says that. We have 4 school-aged children. Everyone thought we had the coolest family. You name it, we did it. RV trips, Disneyland, etc etc. She has a very large, very close family, and they all love me (I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but really, they do because they all respect me and love hanging out/talking to me). Her dad is like one of my best friends. Same story as so many. She was caught in an EA with a person from work, then everything was my fault. I didn't hold her hand enough. I didn't help with groceries. I didn't "let her be her". etc etc. The thing is, she has always been a total family person and loved being a mom and a wife. We both worked at the same place, and I decided to retire early (at 50) to take care of the kids and leave a very stressful/demanding job. Now, she doesn't know what she wants in life, and says she is unhappy because of "the way I allowed you to make me feel". She wants space, but she doesn't want to leave because she says she would be "abandoning the kids". We have been going to counseling but her emotional walls are up, so everything she says she wants (more hand holding, more affection, better listening) is almost impossible, because of her walls. Nobody in our LARGE circle of family and friends can understand what she is going through, and everyone I've talked to says they wish she would "snap out of this". It has shaken the entire family. When I talk to her, I swear it is like talking to a different person. Even her facial expression looks like someone else. We have not filed for D. We have not separated. But I think both/either is very possible, and even likely if nothing changes.
> 
> I am going to individual counseling (aside from our joint counseling), to work on ME throughout this. I know there are things I can do better, and I do take some responsibility for things at times not being perfect (I am one of those people who dive headfirst into my hobbies, so I know I should have cherished her more). She also has one of those mean, abrasive personalities, and at times I took her jabbing personally instead of letting it go. The counselor I am seeing doesn't want to hear anything about her, and if I bring her up he turns it back around to me, to work on myself. It's been tough, because I am very upset, not only with the EA, but at the way she has distanced herself emotionally with me, and the way she seems to have lost her own identity and understanding of what will make her happy. Our four children know about the EA, and they are scared we will D, because things don't seem right in the house. This is so tough, because we had one of those families everyone noticed and enjoyed being around. This has shocked everyone. I have been sleeping on the couch for 3 months, because she needed "space" and made it weird if I slept in bed with her. Three of the kids sleep in the front room with me, like a slumber party, every night. So, every morning when she comes down stairs and goes to work, she sees us all sleeping in the front room. I know it effects her. You have to understand this woman is/was a family woman and wanted nothing more than to have a family, like her parents, and this is not the idea she had in mind for her life. I spend every day doing homework with the kids, with very little adult contact, and then she comes home and then veg's out. She spends a few moments with us, to make an appearance, and then disappears to have her space. We have decent small talk about things, like work or whatever (it is less strained lately). I feel this is a MLC, I am sure, but then again I think it is also her hard-headed nature, since she has spent so much time talking to everyone about our problems (So, I feel like if she gave in and committed to working things out it would make her look like the bad guy - she HATES to feel like people think she is wrong). Everyone is shocked, even people from work, because she used to brag about me to everyone, all the time. We were "that couple". Now, it's a mess.
> 
> ...



Well, there is a lot there...and of course we are getting just your side but...

I didn't really care about a lot of that. Why? Because in some ways it is irrelevant. The core of the issue is SHE IS OR WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR.
None of that other stuff matters. You weren't this, you weren't that, you didn't pay enough attention. Blah, blah, blah. NONE of that EVER justifies an AFFAIR
That is 100% on her! She chose to betray you and according to you, you have no way to even know for sure that it is over or if emotional was as far as it went and that they really weren't or aren't screwing.
The affair is the main issue.
You deal with all that other crap AFTER the affair part is settled.
Do you even want her back? I assume she works with the guy and STILL works with the guy and sees and talks to him every day. Even if you wanted her back you'd be a FOOL to not require her to leave the job where he is....they can't even see or talk to each other again......NON-NEGOTIABLE.
Do you want to live the rest of your life checking on her, checking phone records, e-mails, texts, asking where she is or where she was, wondering if she is being honest or lying.

Why are YOU not sleeping in your own bed? That is utterly ridiculous. Who cares if she doesn't want you there. If she has a stick that far up her aaaass that she can't even sleep in the same be as her own husband that SHE betrayed and cheated on then SHE can move her precious, self indulged tush to the couch.

I thinks you are totally being taken advantage of that YOU are getting kicked out of your own room. I do not even know you and I do not have much respect for you and sort of consider a soft pushover who gets bullied and won't stand up for themselves.

Personally, my advice is always NEVER STAY WITH A CHEATER.

The affair is the one and only issue here. She should be begging and pleading for you to forgive her and take her back. Who gives a crap about all of her space issues. Screw that.
She had an affair on her husband.
You do not just sweep that aside and then listen to her justify by telling you why you made her do it and you need to give in to her pathetic list of me, me, me, give me space demands.

Why do you want her back at all?
She doesn't even sound as if she is sorry and that she blames you and that you need to pamper her mid life crisis.

You should file for divorce, be utterly furious and disgusted by her sleazy affair, ignore and reject any attempt to blame you for causing her to have an affair and do not even consider reconciliation unless she is totally crushed and remorseful over betraying her wedding vows and her husband.

I cannot believe you got kicked out of your own room and you are viewing this through HER ISSUES and what SHE NEEDS and WANTS when she had a freaking affair on YOU!!!!!!!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Soooo, she started connecting more with someone outside the family enough to create a wall/distance from that family - and YOU are sleeping in another room?

oh NO... she caused this change - SHE is the one who should bear the penalty for the change!

without consequences she won’t change!!! Start making HER UNCOMFORTABLE!!! Kick HER out! Or at the minimum have HER sleep on the couch!

why are you bending and twisting to her requests? Start making demands! Start telling her if SHE doesn’t take responsibility For HER bad behavior and make effort to repair that damage SHE caused - she will be divorced!

and if she doesn’t make extreme effort - divorce her!

stop being her doormat! You’ve been too wimpy... start knowing you have your kids/family - without her!

you can have your family and relationship ships without her. Start living like you can and showing your kids that life can be great without toxic Mom ruining everything!
Do not hesitate to kick her out ASAP if her attitude shows no remorse and that sense of entitlement!


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I pretty much agree with Hinterdir and Beach123, but I can understand that part of you would like to fix things. 

She's the sort that gets attack-y when she's caught in the wrong. How much do you actually know about the EA, and how was it discovered? And how come your children know about it??

Let's assume the following things are all true, just for what it's worth

You really didn't hold her hand enough. you didn't help with groceries, you weren't a good listener. In other words, things were not perfect. And she wasn't good at asking for those things, or you didn't listen, or both
Of course, none of that justifies an affair at all. She should have tackled her dissatisfactions in other ways
everything she said she wanted (more hand holding, more affection, better listening) is now almost impossible
she feels like if we talk about "things" it will make her feel guilty. And she has low tolerance for guilt. So she feels like she's trapped in hell.
You are very hurt, and it isn't because of the EA. It is the way she is dealing with this whole thing, unable to come to the table and talk, the most basic of relationship skills.
But so far, she has been willing to come to MC, and she'd really like this fixed. 
So what the hell is your MC doing? Are they competent?

And supposing all the above statements are true, what do you think you should do?


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## stratdude (May 15, 2020)

I do appreciate the comments regarding the ridiculousness of me sleeping on the couch. I am in no way justifying this happening, but here is a bit more to consider. She did not "kick me out of the bed/room" or tell me to sleep on the couch. I chose to do this it when she was asking for "space". Again, not justifying it, and to be honest I didn't want to sleep with her anyways I was so pissed. Weeks back, I told her I was going to return to the bed, and she said she didn't care where I slept, but after one night there just felt cold, so I said to myself I'd rather be on the f***ing couch. Over the weekend we took the RV out and I made sure to be the first in bed, and she elected to sleep in the bed with me (even though she scooted all the way over to the other side, to prove a point I think). She could have easily slept on the fold out with the kids. This is not me having false hope or giving her good girl points, it just is what it is. And, sleeping on the couch with all the kids around me is also kind of a way that she can see kids and I are very close, and we would do just fine without her. Yes, it looks like I am a pushover, but if you knew me personally you would know that is not the case, nor has it ever been. I'm just trying to figure out if I wait out this MLC by giving her space to get through this, or if I decide I've had enough. As far as the EA, I'd be lying if I didn't say I just about fell into the same trap with a coworker a few years back, since we work so closely with each other. It was nowhere near what she did, but the "stones at a glass house" and the "stick/plank in the eye" is a consideration, and it is far too common where we worked. Yes, my ego wants to draw a line and be done, and believe me when I say that is an issue that will need to be addressed before we decide to reconcile. There is no way I'm agreeing to move forward and "repair" things, until that issue is addressed. If it is something she does not want to address, then I have no choice but to move on. 

These are not comments to justify her behavior, or to justify not filing for divorce. I just want to feel like every rock was turned before we make such a decision, and believe me when I say I am running out of rocks. I think, for me, I just need to know I tried everything, so I (and my kids) can look back and know I did everything I could, and she made her choices from there. You guys have me thinking though.... seriously.


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## stratdude (May 15, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> I pretty much agree with Hinterdir and Beach123, but I can understand that part of you would like to fix things.
> 
> She's the sort that gets attack-y when she's caught in the wrong. How much do you actually know about the EA, and how was it discovered? And how come your children know about it??
> 
> ...



She has a very low tolerance for guilt, or for people telling her that she is wrong. When we were active Catholics, she wigged out if we were going to confession, every time. Once we got in such a bad argument waiting in line for confession I left her at the church (a stupid move I am still paying for). It wasn't worth the marriage, so we stopped being "Catholic". I think this is something from her childhood, which she has kind of mentioned, because somehow people/her parents made her feel dumb at times, or that is just the way she takes things. So, maybe this EA thing is something that burden's her but she can't discuss because of how she is, and maybe she would rather have a divorce and end things than deal with all that guilt. Maybe it is just easier for it to go away.... but that is just me thinking too much.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Did your wife know about your dealings with your coworker?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

How did you find out about the EA?


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

You suspect a midlife crisis.
How about menopause? It can look pretty similar.
What age is your wife? 

As you used to work at the same company, do you know the person she has been in contact with?

In what way has her EA been worse than your EA? And did your wife know about your EA?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

But why aren’t YOU forcing HER to sleep on that damn couch?

she wants space? Put her on the couch! You are so passive of course she is walking all over her doormat!

you want to set things right? Make sure SHE is the one that’s uncomfortable! SO uncomfortable that she realizes she is being squeezed OUT of the family! SO uncomfortable that SHE starts to think “hmmm, maybe I’ll lose my family; maybe I’ll change!”

you bowing to her isn’t working!!!!


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

stratdude said:


> I do appreciate the comments regarding the ridiculousness of me sleeping on the couch. I am in no way justifying this happening, but here is a bit more to consider. She did not "kick me out of the bed/room" or tell me to sleep on the couch. I chose to do this it when she was asking for "space". Again, not justifying it, and to be honest I didn't want to sleep with her anyways I was so pissed. Weeks back, I told her I was going to return to the bed, and she said she didn't care where I slept, but after one night there just felt cold, so I said to myself I'd rather be on the f***ing couch. Over the weekend we took the RV out and I made sure to be the first in bed, and she elected to sleep in the bed with me (even though she scooted all the way over to the other side, to prove a point I think). She could have easily slept on the fold out with the kids. This is not me having false hope or giving her good girl points, it just is what it is. And, sleeping on the couch with all the kids around me is also kind of a way that she can see kids and I are very close, and we would do just fine without her. Yes, it looks like I am a pushover, but if you knew me personally you would know that is not the case, nor has it ever been. I'm just trying to figure out if I wait out this MLC by giving her space to get through this, or if I decide I've had enough. As far as the EA, I'd be lying if I didn't say I just about fell into the same trap with a coworker a few years back, since we work so closely with each other. It was nowhere near what she did, but the "stones at a glass house" and the "stick/plank in the eye" is a consideration, and it is far too common where we worked. Yes, my ego wants to draw a line and be done, and believe me when I say that is an issue that will need to be addressed before we decide to reconcile. There is no way I'm agreeing to move forward and "repair" things, until that issue is addressed. If it is something she does not want to address, then I have no choice but to move on.
> 
> These are not comments to justify her behavior, or to justify not filing for divorce. I just want to feel like every rock was turned before we make such a decision, and believe me when I say I am running out of rocks. I think, for me, I just need to know I tried everything, so I (and my kids) can look back and know I did everything I could, and she made her choices from there. You guys have me thinking though.... seriously.


Does she still work with this person and see and talk to them every day?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

A couple of things here. First off, she is the one behaving badly and you are rewarding her for it. The entire family is suffering and half of you are sleeping on the floor while she is cozy in bed. Why is that? If you think this is going to win her back, you are sadly mistaken. I wrote an article about how to get your spouse to treat you better. It is directed towards women, but it's the same for anyone, male or female. If you reward someone for their bad behavior, it encourages them to continue it. Here's a link: How to Get Your Husband to Treat You Better | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World



stratdude said:


> She has a very low tolerance for guilt, or for people telling her that she is wrong. When we were active Catholics, she wigged out if we were going to confession, every time. Once we got in such a bad argument waiting in line for confession I left her at the church (a stupid move I am still paying for). It wasn't worth the marriage, so we stopped being "Catholic". I think this is something from her childhood, which she has kind of mentioned, because somehow people/her parents made her feel dumb at times, or that is just the way she takes things. So, maybe this EA thing is something that burden's her but she can't discuss because of how she is, and maybe she would rather have a divorce and end things than deal with all that guilt. Maybe it is just easier for it to go away.... but that is just me thinking too much.


 I don't get this. What is your faith? Do you believe in Jesus? Are you a Catholic? If so, why on earth would you leave your faith because someone is unwilling to go to confession? This isn't about what she does. It is about what you believe and what you do. It is also about what you are teaching your children. If you want to renew practicing your faith, do it.

You seem like a very passive person to me and it doesn't seem to be serving you or your family well. Please read the article I posted. I hope it gives you some insight.

One more thing: Your wife is probably having a physical affair and it's probably not over. Don't trust a word she says.


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## stratdude (May 15, 2020)

For those who asked, yes she knows about my situation with a coworker. I told her during a conversation after finding out about her EA. Yes, I had inappropriate feelings, but no I never shared them with the coworker. It was just me having feelings, but having the common sense to not act on them or tell the coworker. I'm just saying I could have easily fell into the same trap if she would have opened the door.... I found out about the texting when I looked at a phone bill and saw a number that appeared too many times. I didn't know who it was, so I asked her if she had been communicating with someone she shouldn't have, and she immediately said yes. She has stated it was selfish and she liked the attention, and at the time our relationship was lacking (4 kids, bills, husband who is interested in band more than wife, etc). She fell for it, and fell for the lines, and as much as I hate her for it, she is human like all of us. That does not mean I will ever get over it, but I could have fallen in the same trap. Hopefully, that answers some of your question


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Wow, just wow...

You and the entire family are kind of super deniers... Maybe you guys just don't understand...

Here is what is actually going on. 

1) She did not have an EA, it was and still is a full on physical affair. Do you get that YET???? 

2) She has lied to you about everything. Further, she gaslight you and her whole family. As an aside, I cannot believe that no one in the family has figured this out yet. 

3) She has basically made a fool out of you, sleeping on the couch, please. 

4) She is trying to wait for him to leave his wife, and she will divorce you, ASAP. The affair obviously is still going on, you get that i hope.

I guess those are the biggest. 

What should you do?? 

File for divorce and have her served at work. It will wake her up or you get a head start with your new life.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Quit making excuses FOR her!!!

sheez, you seems like an extreme doormat.

she isn’t changing! She is blaming you (because you ALLOW that). She isn’t attempting to repair that damage SHE has caused!

all of these things leave you ONE option = Divorce her now! Have her move out immediately! That’s all you need to know. Those are your only options in order to save your self respect and the respect of your kids.

lead by example! Would you like any of your kids to be treated this way by a spouse? If not, start taking action to get ahold of the family.

you CAN be a great family without your Disrespectful wife causing hardships in the house!


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

stratdude said:


> but that is just me thinking too much.


Yes. You read what I wrote, but you didn't address my questions. You are still caught in your own thought process.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sounds terminal to me...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My ex wife had similar behaviours - sudden personality change, she would hold her face differently, refuse to answer questions, wanted me gone, our relationship was suddenly all bad...

she never shook it off. She never went back to the normal that I ever knew. She didn’t just walk away from me, she walked away from all of our friends and much of her own family.

It happens. And it’s weird and it sucks but it happens.

Flip the script. Make things hard for her. She sleeps on the couch. She explains things to family. She figures out her life.

You go do you. Disconnect. Act single. Get a lawyer. Tell the family that she has decided to be with someone else and doesn’t want this life any more.

The EA isn’t over. And it’s probably not an Emotional Affair, it’s just an affair.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

At this point, unless you get on offense, your family doesn't stand a chance.
You need to take control. You have to blow it up to save it. Shock and awe all the way.
Get a hold of her phone. Copy and secure the texts.
Her ass goes to the couch.
Find out what you can about her "Little Buddy." Find out if he is married. With your wife present, ring her up. Let her know what is going on. Offer to share the evidence. Set up an appointment at a public venue.
Dial up "Loverboy" on his cell. Tell him that you are not going to stand in the way of true love, that in reading all the texts you have realized that it is pure destiny that they are together, you are going to make it happen, and you need to know where to deliver her s**t. He won't be expecting any of this. He might bail.
Make sure to have plenty of boxes and trash bags on hand. Be nice, buy the heavy duty trash bags.
Use social media to let everyone know of her transgressions, and that you are now on the open market.
Meanwhile, the next day at work, have her served with divorce paperwork. 
*Take every possible step to blow up her little world. You will see if it is salvageable.*
Tell her that she has the time to make her case for reconciliation up until the time the divorce is final.
You give her a list of requirements to make you and the kids safe. Tell her you will judge how well she "Walks" the list.
Tell her her sincerity, remorse, and desire will be the criteria you will use to determine if she is worthy of the gift.
Keep her feet to the fire and the pressure on her.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think it's detrimental that you are letting the kids sleep in the living room with you. The kids should be sleeping in their rooms in their beds. They don't need to be part of the "let's show Mom how close we are, sleeping together, and Mom isn't" show.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Tdbo said:


> At this point, unless you get on offense, your family doesn't stand a chance.
> You need to take control. You have to blow it up to save it. Shock and awe all the way.
> Get a hold of her phone. Copy and secure the texts.
> Her ass goes to the couch.
> ...


^^^^ yep! Do this!
And don’t back down one bit if she begs you to stay married! Words are NOTHING at this point... she must earn her respect back with solid, consistent actions that show she is trustworthy - which takes a long time!

in the meantime - stay neutral - meaning show no emotions to her whether happy or sad. Just neutral.

The reason she doesn’t care about you is because she is TOTALLY interested in someone else!


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

1. Fire your therapist. If you go to another one, find one who has counseled betrayed spouses. Throwing everything back on you when your wife is cheating is almost tantamount to justifying her affair.

2. Boundaries. She doesn't get to have a password protected phone. You have all her passwords. She doesn't get to have contact with this dude.

Put your kids in their rooms, and move back into your bedroom. If she's uncomfortable she can have the couch.

Basically di the opposite of what the nice guy in you thinks you should do.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

secretsheriff said:


> 1. Fire your therapist. If you go to another one, find one who has counseled betrayed spouses. Throwing everything back on you when your wife is cheating is almost tantamount to justifying her affair.


I agree with this entirely. Your IC is just not equipped to help with your marriage. Even if the affair wasn't an issue, your IC can't just choose to ignore the elephant in the room. The break down of your marriage is why you went to IC in the first place. Get a new IC.

Strat, you have to realize that your wife is thinking very differently than you are right now. She seems fine with your new arrangement. If she hasn't explicitly told you she's not okay with how things are, anything you think about her guilt or shame is just guessing. She's not acting ashamed. She's acting like she likes sleeping alone and likes having you as a roommate while she does whatever she wants with her OM and isn't accountable for it.

In your mind right now it seems like you're not acting because you're giving her a chance to change before you go for divorce and once you do for a divorce, it's all over. That's not actually true or what frequently happens in these cases. Even if you file for divorce tomorrow, you will have to wait months, possibly even years, before it's all over. Really divorce is just the beginning of the end. Even if you file tomorrow, your wife has many MANY chances to stop what she's doing and turn back towards the marriage and you can choose to be open to that if she does what is needed. Since she is comfortable right now and does not care that your marriage has degraded, she may need that push in order to make a decision between you and OM. You do not have anything to lose by filing for divorce and seeing where things go while you still think reconciliation is a possibility.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

And when you file - request spousal support as well as child support!


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Beach123 said:


> ^^^^ yep! Do this!
> And don’t back down one bit if she begs you to stay married! Words are NOTHING at this point... she must earn her respect back with solid, consistent actions that show she is trustworthy - which takes a long time!
> 
> in the meantime - stay neutral - meaning show no emotions to her whether happy or sad. Just neutral.
> ...



Exactly. To break the strategy down more:
Loverboy is the new and exciting toy.
OP is the solid and steady "Plan B."
The strategy is to make Loverboy bail and see that her "Plan B" is working on becoming "Plan Bye-Bye."
No new toy and no safety net? What's a cheat to do?
That is how you modify the egregious behavior, and gain control of the dynamic.
That way, you can see if there is anything meaningful to work with and you make the decision regarding reconciliation.
OP needs to do what is in his and his kids best interests, but she needs to experience pain compliance, serious consequences, and demonstrate evidence that she has corrected whatever malfunction(s) that led to the betrayal.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What is the update?

the problem here is that you care too much for her and her bad behavior and she simply doesn’t care at all!

until you completely change those dynamics - she holds all the power - controls the relationship - all to the demise of the marriage.

get to a point where you don’t care and SHE needs to make effort to resurrect that marriage, or not!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Any update?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@stratdude get tested for STDs. Then, and this is to prove a point as to how badly your wife has impacted on, get your children tested for a DNA match.

Also, whilst I can sort of see your counsellor's point, if you are stuck in your progress by your wife's unreasonable behaviour, his refusal to help you might be a clue that you need a better counsellor?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Here is the problem -- if your wife still works with this guy, she is STILL in the affair. She is just hiding it better.
Get her phone, recover the texts, make sure you expose ALL of this to her/your family.
Find out if this guy is married -- get the goods on them from folks you still know at the job.
If he has a GF or married, expose to THEM also.

Her getting mad at YOU for HER having an affair -- yeah, NO WAY. You are taking too much on as your fault. This is HER fault.
If she had such a problem to go seek out another man, then she should have divorced you first.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

So because she feels guilty of the EA you have to suffer and she has to play the victim?! She needs space?! Give her space but forcing you to give up your bed is not the right way. She has no right to do it! She needs to punish herself if she feels bad, not you. All her drama is pointless.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I understand about what you are saying about falling into the trap. The thing is you didn’t cross the line into cheating. You stopped it before it got to that point. Your wife didn’t.

Three months is enough time for your wife to have figured out what she wants. I don’t suggest giving her an ultimatum about the future of your relationship. What I do suggest is that you see a lawyer and start putting your ducks in a row. Get everything lined up especially child custody. I suggest 50:50 with you being the primary.

I really think the only way your wife will wake up is by being served with divorce papers.

Does she work with the OM?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ABHale said:


> I understand about what you are saying about falling into the trap. The thing is you didn’t cross the line into cheating. You stopped it before it got to that point. Your wife didn’t.
> 
> Three months is enough time for your wife to have figured out what she wants. I don’t suggest giving her an ultimatum about the future of your relationship. What I do suggest is that you see a lawyer and start putting your ducks in a row. Get everything lined up especially child custody. I suggest 50:50 with you being the primary.
> 
> ...


In general I agree with this, but I think it's important to remember that while he may have stopped things sooner then his wife, it was still going to damage the marital bond, and it's not clear to me how that was repaired.

I do think that there isn't much to work with if she's waffling on what she wants, and filing might be his best option here, but it's unhelpful to pretend his emotional involvement with another womam didn't impact his marriage. Guaranteed whatever he was putting into the emotional relationship with the coworker he wasn't putting into his marriage.

It's something to address if they ever decide to reconcile and when he's contemplating what he can learn from this.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I’d bet money she’s cheating - find out.


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## Oldtimer (May 25, 2018)

Three months, sleeping on the couch, bs. Put a stop to your misery. If you haven’t exposed, do it. If she’s still working with him, you know it’s ongoing no matter what she says. 
you’re standing in a weak position so if I were you, “only my opinion “ I would just file and have her served at work. It’s been said many times that to save a marriage, you may have to lose it. Can go either way, but both get you out of infidelity.

The biggest thing that I see is that this has been going on for three months. Bite the bullet and be proactive rather than reactive.

Remember, this is just my opinion. I wish you and your family peace and hope things come to an end in a good way, whichever it may be.

OT


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> In general I agree with this, but I think it's important to remember that while he may have stopped things sooner then his wife, it was still going to damage the marital bond, and it's not clear to me how that was repaired.
> 
> I do think that there isn't much to work with if she's waffling on what she wants, and filing might be his best option here, but it's unhelpful to pretend his emotional involvement with another womam didn't impact his marriage. Guaranteed whatever he was putting into the emotional relationship with the coworker he wasn't putting into his marriage.
> 
> It's something to address if they ever decide to reconcile and when he's contemplating what he can learn from this.


There is nothing saying it did either. OP never said he started to neglect his wife. He figured out he was developing feelings for his coworker and put the brakes on it. He stopped it in its tracks. He did the right thing and what he did is not cheating. Could it have hurt the marriage, only if he kept it going when he realized he started to have improper feelings for his coworker.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ABHale said:


> There is nothing saying it did either. OP never said he started to neglect his wife. He figured out he was developing feelings for his coworker and put the brakes on it. He stopped it in its tracks. He did the right thing and what he did is not cheating. Could it have hurt the marriage, only if he kept it going when he realized he started to have improper feelings for his coworker.


We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm of the belief that if your attention is elsewhere you are neglecting your partner to some degree.

Add to that the fact that his wife knows about it....I don't see how that didn't affect the bond. I can tell you that if I found out my partner was sniffing elsewhere (or had feelings...call it what you will) it would definitely impact our bond because I would no longer feel safe with him.

Of course he did the right thing by stopping it, though tbh I'm not sure I would've said anything to his wife if all it involved was unreturned feelings.

Maybe this doesn't apply to everyone, but I would not assume it didn't do any damage.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm of the belief that if your attention is elsewhere you are neglecting your partner to some degree.
> 
> Add to that the fact that his wife knows about it....I don't see how that didn't affect the bond. I can tell you that if I found out my partner was sniffing elsewhere (or had feelings...call it what you will) it would definitely impact our bond because I would no longer feel safe with him.
> 
> ...


For those who asked, yes she knows about my situation with a coworker. I told her during a conversation after finding out about her EA.

OP’s wife knew nothing about it until she had already cheated.

OP also stated that he was working closely with the coworker at the time. Most of us know when you work with people you become friends with them. That can lead down the road to other feelings as well. It doesn’t mean you are putting more into the friendship then you are the marriage. Op saw that he was getting to close and stopped it.

There are plenty of people that spend more time with friends then they do their own spouse. They are not having affairs, they just prefer the friends. Not saying it is right either.

Op did nothing wrong with his coworker. It is also not relevant to his situation now. He told his wife about it so she can know that he face a similar situation. That he knows how it starts. That he knows what she felt. The only difference being, OP’s wife didn’t stop it. She decided to f**k OP over and cheated.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

This is the gist of it all. Your wife us having an affair and although she doesn’t want you anymore (and in my honest opinion never will again, not like before), she doesn’t want to leave the security of your home, the security of her friends and relatives to find out what she is doing, and/or the other man is married and just enjoying your wife on the side (so she can’t leave you and go to him yet). You say all she ever wanted was a family—— nope, she had all that and she’s having an affair with another man. Clearly you and her family wasn’t enough.

There’s nothing complex about this.
I wish I could tell you that you did something wrong and you could fix it. I wish I could say she’s not going to get worse, and not going to start to despise you because you are in the way of her and her lover.

But I can’t. It’s just gonna get worse, you are going to have to divorce if you ever want happiness again.
Her face seems to have changed because she is a different person than you have known. She was always a person that looked at you with love. She doesn’t anymore. She’s literally a different person. Please don’t believe the nonsense. That it was an emotional affair. It’s still going on, and that’s the only reason she needs all this space.
You are literally dying to fall on the sword and take all blame and beg your wife to give you another chance, and you’d try to change x,y,z. 
I truly believe if you were the absolute perfect husband, your wife would still say you weren’t, and it’s all your fault. It’s a flat out LIE. She has to make you out in her mind to be a bad husband so her own conscience doesn’t eat her alive. Do you realize how petty and childish it sounds that your wife says “you didn’t hold my hand enough”???? I wish I was such a good dude that was all my ex could think of. Geez, you must be a saint!

You’ll want to know why. She chose to cheat because she wanted to. That’s the reason. And you’ll look for other reasons, but that’s the only one there is.
I will predict that eventually, your wife will vilify you to her relatives, in order to cover her tracks and keep them from believing the truth about her that you will undoubtedly discover eventually.

I am very sorry for the position you’re in. I only hope you will stop blaming yourself, accept what has happened, and realize that there is nothing you can do but move forward without your wife. She doesn’t want you anymore. She was disloyal.

Once your wife’s sTarted seeing another man, she stopped loving you.
And it is easier to lasso the moon than it is to flip the switch back into the love position once it’s turned off. And make no mistake, it’s off.


honestly, it sounds like you’re an alright dude and deserve more.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> Wow, just wow...
> 
> You and the entire family are kind of super deniers... Maybe you guys just don't understand...
> 
> ...


yep, pretty much spot on and concise.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

stratdude said:


> For those who asked, yes she knows about my situation with a coworker. I told her during a conversation after finding out about her EA. Yes, I had inappropriate feelings, but no I never shared them with the coworker. It was just me having feelings, but having the common sense to not act on them or tell the coworker. I'm just saying I could have easily fell into the same trap if she would have opened the door.... I found out about the texting when I looked at a phone bill and saw a number that appeared too many times. I didn't know who it was, so I asked her if she had been communicating with someone she shouldn't have, and she immediately said yes. She has stated it was selfish and she liked the attention, and at the time our relationship was lacking (4 kids, bills, husband who is interested in band more than wife, etc). She fell for it, and fell for the lines, and as much as I hate her for it, she is human like all of us. That does not mean I will ever get over it, but I could have fallen in the same trap. Hopefully, that answers some of your question


you don’t seem to understand that your wife doesn’t think like you or value you like you do her. Yes, you could have had an affair—- you chose not to. Sir, your wife is HAVING an affair, and your value now to her is only measured in dollars most likely.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Are you sure her EA is actually over and not a PA? You need to do some digging. Your dalliance was not quite an EA but once you start going down that road, cracks will appear in any marriage.

She may also be hitting menopause and take it from personal experience, all the neglect, wrongs of the past that were buried, swept under the carpet, for the sake of a harmonious marriage and family life come back with a vengeance. Maybe she got fed up of keeping the 'perfect family' 'perfect marriage' 'perfect couple' thing going. You say she loved being a wife and a mum, maybe she's done with all that and wants to put her own needs first for a change. many women at this stage of life have put their own needs last for decades in order to support husband careers, children's lives, family life etc. Meanwhile you had all the time to enjoy your hobby of being in a band which probably meant she carried more of the load at home with 4 kids. So now she looks back on her life and thinks, she got the short straw.
The drop in the nurturing hormone of estrogen play havoc with wives hormones and their sense of themselves. The Female Brain by Dr Louann Brizendine discusses the reason why so many middle age women throw away their marriages and stop being who they once where. Unfortunately not enough research is being done on this issue.
Has she any issues with her hormones?
I would suggest you educate yourself on the effects of the menopause. there is lots of information out there. 

You can take the advice of the many males on here who will tell you dump this marriage immediately and move on, but if its the menopause causing this shift in her behavior, the marriage can be salvaged, it will pass but you may end up with a woman you do not want to be married to and vice versa.


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