# Are long affairs different?



## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

My ex cheated with his best friends widow for 3 years. We were in MC during those years. 

What does it say about a person who can continue an affair for that long? And during MC?

I found his emails to her after the affair. She was the widow of his only friend, so he had supposedly legitimate reasons to be visiting her, that made it confusing and delayed me finding out. 

In his emails to her he told her lies, such as he was having a heart angiogram, that he had told his mother and our son and they approved of his plans, that he had put money aside for her and her sons. He proposed marriage to her, made honeymoon plans in these emails. I found these emails after it ended. 

When I found out he was texting her 40 times a day he agreed that it was an inappropriate relationship and they were consoling each other over the man's death too much. 

During the affair he was cruel and callous with me. I did not know why he had turned on me so meanly, hence the MC I insisted on. 

He was accumulating his dead friends clothes, in a weird obsessive way. He had paintings of him commissioned. 

He agreed not to see her any more as per our MC, and I asked him to put it in writing. The next day he was texting her again.

He later admitted that there was some physical component to it (though he suffers ED and that was a factor no doubt)

After the affair he punished her by outing her to her ultra religious church. To this day he won't admit it was adultery. He says it was a ptsd reaction to his friends death. He is not responsible as it was a type of breakdown he claims. During the breakdown he attended one of her son's weddings without me (said it was for close family and friends only), took her to many fine restaurants, and spent 100's on salon and hair appointment for her. 

How is the person involved in a short term fling different than the ongoing affair?


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

What a loser. I'd like to give him some real PTSD.

Its an interesting question, as I think betrayed spouses feel almost perplexed at these LTAs. Its not that it hurts more or less as much as it is hard to process. If the wayward had all this time to screw around, they obviously had time to talk to you, work on the marriage, come to their senses. 

It highlights their true selfishness.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

In this case at least it seems that your ex put himself in the role of his friend and was taking care of the friend's family business in all ways. He proposed marriage to the widow? Yes, I'd say that was inappropriate.

There was a lot more going on with your ex than simply the long vs. short of it, I'd say.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

My wife had a 5 (that I know of) year LTA with a coworker, it's basically a double life.. and that new love feeling turns into an f buddy and an 'escape' from the horror of your real life, in my wifes case having three healthy wonderful children, a large house, trips, a loving husband that worked as hard as he could with what he knew.. but all those years she flirted to make me jealous and feed her ego, had the loose boundaries because it felt good to get attention from guys. Then convinced me that I had the problem, it wasn't her, I was 'jealous'.. Her mom and grandma taught her to use it while she got it, and now that she's 50 and got caught, she's in R with me and remorseful and doing all the right things. I only had to deal with 30+ years of being manipulated to help her ego out. I wonder if it's just too much work now to try to get attention, as attractive as she is, she's not 25 anymore. Even her LTA was with a guy 5 years older than me, and a mental midget to go along with his job title and pay grade that was a notch above paper boy.

So yea, long term affairs suck now that I'm done with my angry rant.. PTSD is the excuse he used to sleeze in on his dead friends wife, that he probably always had feelings for and was jealous of his friends relationship. If he really cared about his friend, enough to have PTSD, he'd stay the hell away from his wife until she healed, and even then he'd make sure he wasn't married before he even considered the concept of approaching her in that way. Some guys see it as an opportunity to take advantage of, and they go with it. I guess I'd probably lose out to one of those alpha guys with my beta thoughts.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

indiecat said:


> After the affair he punished her by outing her to her ultra religious church.


Punished? are you kidding me Indiecat, I have seen your posts to know that you are not easily fooled or manipulated, why are you beliving this gigantic crap.

Your husband is a POS, that instead of helping his friend's widow took adventage of her, he probably began his BS with how they shared a connection from him, he persued hard (as he was the one who always wento to her home) you already have proofs that he made her feel pity and fear for him as he invented a heart condition that probably was a threat for his life causing in her response of pity and fear as her husband have just died, he fooled her thinking that you were already ending your relationship and his family was aware of it and approved their relationship, and he even told her that he already have money to take care of her and her sons, and that they were about to marry.

Your husband is a total POS, what a way of betraying a friend, I know of people that have really helped the widows of his friends and are admirables, you POS of a husband just didn't help her, he destroyed her in her more vulnerable moment in life and using his friendship and probably a promise of "taking care of her as excuse".

he Lied to her, he manipulated her, he made fake promises and after he had his fun with his "*friend's*" widow, he burned her when she was a victim of this amoral human garbage, so now probably the kids over the fact that they have to get over the loss of their father they have to help their devastated mother which now also have to face the shame of what your husband did to their remaining family, "such a good friend your husband", *what a total POS*.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Each affair has certain elements and dynamics inherent to it that make it somewhat unique and different from every other affair. Having said that, many long-term affairs do to carry w/ them a certain cruelty.

As for your ex's affair and his behavior while engaged in it... Yeah, pretty unique. I wouldn't obsess over it too much, though... he's your ex! 

Just out of curiosity, though, is the affair the reason that you divorced him?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

All affairs are bad but the ones that last for years I think are especially bad. 

By that time, a relationship has been established. And one could imagine, feelings, too.



indiecat said:


> My ex cheated with his best friends widow for 3 years. We were in MC during those years.
> 
> What does it say about a person who can continue an affair for that long? And during MC?


It says he wasn't really that committed to your marriage or MC.



indiecat said:


> *After the affair he punished her by outing her to her ultra religious church.* To this day he won't admit it was adultery. He says it was a ptsd reaction to his friends death. He is not responsible as it was a type of breakdown he claims.



What a d!ck. So he casts her as the bad person to her church then claims zero accountability/responsibility for it because he was having a "breakdown?" Did he have a breakdown for three years? Please. I think that is such a pvssy move. He tried to take her down and shame her while he acted all high and mighty. Double d!ck move.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Your husband sounds like a complet d-bag. It wasn't his fault but it was her fault? Please!

Is this his first affair? Did he wait until after his friend was dead to pursue the widow?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

People who have had betrayals have stated, and told me personally, that the first time was the hardest and yet the rush of a lifetime and after that the second time is easy and afterwards it's just second nature. So if undies drop once the chance they do again at some point in time is substantial.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

He had a heart attack near the end of the affair. I kicked him out and he would sit on the front porch and cry and hold his chest. The kids would see this, and I ended up taking him back after 2 months. We tried to R for 3 years. He kept to his ptsd story.

And we did Christian MC, a big mistake, if I brought up the affair he would say I was a bad Christian because the speakers at the MC seminars had weathered affairs and were now all happy. 

So we limped along for 3 years. He started triangulating ds against me. Short and long of it, I had a breakdown and left the house. It was that or suicide. His name calling, telling me I was crazy, unforgiving and hard etc. 

The kids sided with him, I've explained that in other posts, he poisoned them against me by saying I would not give them enough money for groceries, or pay his visa down, he lets them live in a no rules house, they can smoke pot at home, son's gf lives there now. 

He told ds it was only a 'friendship' and son chooses to believe that and see me as the walk away. I was actually the crawl away. 

I got my own place and both kids know they are welcome to live with me. I don't call that abandonment , but in their little cult world it is apparently.

He waited until his friend was dead to start the A. I think earlier in the marriage he had an EA, he was very close to a woman in the reserve army with him.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

indiecat said:


> He told ds it was only a 'friendship' and son chooses to believe that and see me as the walk away. I was actually the crawl away.
> 
> I got my own place and both kids know they are welcome to live with me. I don't call that abandonment , but in their little cult world it is apparently.


Yeah I remeber your story, this is why I found so hard to believe that you bought his story for a second.

If I had know this story from the beginning in your threads I had adiviced you to talk with the OW, explaining her your current situation with your kids and how he had manipulated them against you, OW, was also a manipulated victim so she probably will be more than happy to help you to uncover the snake you had for husband, giving you time lines, dates, details, and maybe even evidence to help your kids open their eyes to see the kind of man their father is.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

I doubt OW would help me. I outed her to her family and she sent me a letter threatening me with the police if I contacted anyone else she knew. She is a politician. 

I didn't buy his story, I stupidly thought time would help, and a psychiatrist might help him. 

I have to live with the regret of my choices.


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

I think LTAs are in a whole separate category by themselves as far as the consequences to the esteem and ability to recover for the BS.

Anything greater that 6-12 months, I would consider LT. Also important is was the A disclosed or discovered? Meaning did the WS finally wake up and end it, disclose and repair original marriage or did they attempt to cake eat until the s**t hit the fan?

Really, when you think about it, LTA are really a form of polyamory, open marriage, without the BSs consent or participation in the same. 

It takes a special kind of selfishness, disrespect for vows and spouse, aversion to commitment especially if both partners in betrayal are married which I just can't get my head around to understand. 

This quote from russel:
*it's basically a double life.. and that new love feeling turns into an f buddy and an 'escape' from the horror of your real life,*
is almost a word for word quote from my FWH who had two LTA 13 years apart, the first 18 months, never disclosed and the most recent 6 years, discovered by me. He has admitted that both As started when each partner discovered thru conversations that they lacked something in both their marriages which turned out to be nothing more than their expectations of sex. So they helped themselves to that and entered into what my FWH called a "mutually beneficial relationship (f buddies). He justified it by his need to escape into a non-confrontational relationship with them as opposed to a conflict based relationship with me, his wife. No introspection on his part as to why there might have been conflict in his primary relationship in the first place! The double life becomes the norm, nothing out of the ordinary for them...so complacent in their ability to betray without discovery that they lose the ability to see how morally wrong it is. The ability to compartmentalize guilt-free their double life is a necessary component to LTA also.

Nope, three years into R and I still can't get my mind around that...back in MC to see if FWH can finally admit the truth, own it and apologize for what is truly eating my heart out: noncommittment, selfishness, complete devaluation of me: total imploding of his moral character.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

allwillbewell said:


> Really, when you think about it, LTA are really a form of polyamory, open marriage, without the BSs consent or participation in the same.
> 
> It takes a special kind of selfishness, disrespect for vows and spouse, aversion to commitment especially if both partners in betrayal are married which I just can't get my head around to understand.
> 
> ...


My evil ex-wife wh$red herself for nine years with some fellow a$$h0le.

Her double-life was a sick, sick assault on our marriage and on my physically since she infected me with STDs too.

I agree, the kind of person who behaves that way is plain unable to give a crap about their behavior.

But they are really good at the cry-cry tears once outed.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

allwillbewell said:


> I think LTAs are in a whole separate category by themselves as far as the consequences to the esteem and ability to recover for the BS.
> 
> Anything greater that 6-12 months, I would consider LT. Also important is was the A disclosed or discovered? Meaning did the WS finally wake up and end it, disclose and repair original marriage or did they attempt to cake eat until the s**t hit the fan?
> 
> ...


If he doesn't admit it, won't own it, and hasn't apologized for it (a sincere one).. I hope you can get those things or find the strength to leave him. You deserve him to give you true R, not a false R. If he's not capable of it, and it seems most aren't.. then you should find someone that's capable of some empathy.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

indiecat said:


> My ex cheated with his best friends widow for 3 years. We were in MC during those years.
> 
> What does it say about a person who can continue an affair for that long? And during MC?
> 
> ...


LTAs, affairs the result in a pregnancy, etc are in a whole other category. Affairs that last a few years means that the cheater had to keep on lying and deceiving for YEARS and YEARS it must shake the BS to their core knowing that their spouse was capable of continuously lying and cheating. That takes a special lack of conscience to engage in an affair for years.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> A short term affair is a bad choice that *sometimes* the ws recognizes and shows sorrow and remorse and does not repeat their behavior.
> 
> A long term affair is a continuous, purposeful, lie. Getting over this type of long term deceit would be impossible for me.
> 
> All affairs are wrong and evil, but living with someone that can deceive you this long is beyond me.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Well said JA!!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

johnAdams said:


> A short term affair is a bad choice that *sometimes* the ws recognizes and shows sorrow and remorse and does not repeat their behavior.
> 
> A long term affair is a continuous, purposeful, lie. Getting over this type of long term deceit would be impossible for me.
> 
> All affairs are wrong and evil, but living with someone that can deceive you this long is beyond me.



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:



Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Well said JA!!


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> A short term affair is a bad choice that *sometimes* the ws recognizes and shows sorrow and remorse and does not repeat their behavior.
> 
> A long term affair is a continuous, purposeful, lie. Getting over this type of long term deceit would be impossible for me.
> 
> All affairs are wrong and evil, but living with someone that can deceive you this long is beyond me.


I agree. It's not just a lie to the spouse but the kids and other family too.

Over 25 years ago my dad had a LTR, 2-3 years, I was 21-22 at the time. One of his lies was that he was teaching a course at the local community college on Wednesday nights. Nope, that was his and the OW's evening together. I remember having conversations about the class, what he taught, etc. I remember my aunt and uncle asking him questions too. I was really proud of him. He was totally bull****ting us the whole time! I thought my Dad hung the moon and he disappointed me so much.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Oh soccer mom...that breaks my heart...
> 
> It was hard enough having a short term affair resulting in one sexual encounter...I cannot imagine living a life of deceit and lies for a long period of time.
> 
> ...


You are not in the category MrsJA .of a long term or serial cheater. It is easy to understand for me how a couple moves beyond a ONS or relatively brief affair.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

His 'cover story' was that he was at our cottage cleaning up, or at her church, because all of a sudden he started taking bible classes'.

His other cover story was that he was meeting with a priest he had befriended. He would meet him for hours. I called the priest once and asked him 'did you really meet with my husband the last two Saturday's?'. The priest said he was not at liberty to divulge such information'. 

In my defense, yes I was naïve. I stupidly bought the 'promised to look after his only friends widow and kids story'. They had known each other since childhood. 

I did confront him saying they were having an EA, he said I was not understanding about his need to talk to her about his friends passing. 

I also confronted her, telling her he was spending too much time with her and I considered it an EA. 

It just went underground as they say, then I found the phone records. 

As he always was LD I didn't think about PA. He also had a heart attack near the end of the A. And the kids wondered why I can't be totally sympathetic to their dad's constant talking about his heart.

I was really stupid. Should kept him out right after discovery. But he the bad heart attack and the kids were so freaked out about his heart condition, and he played it up. Still does. 

So now I am out of the house. And the kids see me as the bad one. He's convinced them that it was just a friendship, and that our MC after the affair should have sorted it out for me.

There is no point to carrying on for me, I am really depressed. I try to make a life, but without my kids it seems very void.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your children will come back to you. Give it time.

A cheater who vilifies the BS to children is worse than a simple long term cake eating adulterer. He cannot even man up to admit to his failure.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

He sends me long emails on how I am hurting the kids by breaking up the family. And how he just knows he won't live too much longer, and is having heart tests that are not good. And that they are all grieving his mother who died in Feb. The one they never visited. And the kids send me hurtful ones on my abandoning their sick dad. 

I've stopped reading his emails, and am taking a break from texting the kids. It only seems to escalate their alienation when I try to keep in touch. 

I told him over and over, all I needed is you to say you hurt me and are sorry. But it's always the ptsd excuse, or the lecture about how if I was a good Christian I would get over it and not be such a hard woman.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I am truly sorry for what you are going though Indie... He sounds like a completely, manipulative coward. All of this will come back to bite him in the arse some day. I am sorry that he has gotten to your children... I cannot imagine how much pain that adds to his A.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

It's like he put my heart in a blender.

He keeps telling me to return, that divorced families hurt kids. 

He now denies the affair, say in an email 'you think I wanted to screw that sea hag that my dumb dead fvkd of a friend got stuck with and who ruined his life?'. 

This same woman had done some serial cheating on her husband earlier in their marriage. And my h. had consoled his friend, who took her back, but was never truly happy again. 

I have his love letters and marriage proposals to her. And the aids test, which he said he only got because I am a science major and I wouldn't believe him that they did nothing physical. He said 'you cannot get stds from non body contact nor from the air, but here's a copy of the test anyway, since you are suspicious'. 

I know, it's all a mess. Feel like leaving the province for awhile. But I have to get on with the D. Though I find that idea terifyling. I'm not young anymore (50's) and to have no kids, no home, no partner. It's terrifying.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> A short term affair is a bad choice that *sometimes* the ws recognizes and shows sorrow and remorse and does not repeat their behavior.
> 
> A long term affair is a continuous, purposeful, lie. Getting over this type of long term deceit would be impossible for me.
> 
> All affairs are wrong and evil, but living with someone that can deceive you this long is beyond me.


Two ways to look at it.. A LTA might have more of an emotional connection before they are willing to go all the way. A ONS or short term thing might show that this person is a bit more willing to cheat without much invested other than physical attraction. They could be someone that is into instant gratification sexually with random person that asks, and don't really need to think they love them.

Affairs put doubt in your head, LTA, STA, ONS.. I would imagine that I would suspect that if I got a confession, I'd wonder if the motivation for the confession was just to let me know, so I'd have to feel some pain. Is it to boost ego, to assuage guilt etc.. Would I believe after such a betrayal that the confession was actually for me and not the person doing the confessing?

If I had to choose, I'd take your situation 100 times over mine, but I need to point out this side of the coin.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

A long term affair is, in my opinion, absolutely different. 

I can only speak of what I've been through but the knowing something is going on but not knowing was true torture. The longer the feeling was experienced, the worse it was. It is like a slow build up to discovery. I cant say for sure it is worse than discovering a one night affair, but I can certainly say the agony lasted a long time. 

The reality is that the long term AP has invested a lot to the point of getting caught, the one nighter was most likely based on lust for a good part, I'm sure there may be other factors such as resentment, lonliness, being drunk and other things that may have contributed to that choice.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

roostr said:


> A long term affair is, in my opinion, absolutely different.
> 
> I can only speak of what I've been through but the knowing something is going on but not knowing was true torture. The longer the feeling was experienced, the worse it was. It is like a slow build up to discovery. I cant say for sure it is worse than discovering a one night affair, but I can certainly say the agony lasted a long time.
> 
> The reality is that the long term AP has invested a lot to the point of getting caught, the one nighter was most likely based on lust for a good part, I'm sure there may be other factors such as resentment, lonliness, being drunk and other things that may have contributed to that choice.


They put so much effort into hiding it, and that works by making you think you're the one with all the problems. It's totally based on resentments, that are hidden from the spouse. They build up a list, they use it later as 'reasons'. It could be anything from drinking too much to loading the dishwasher backward.

The example that stands out to me the most was at a beach, I was so sad and lonely because I was getting the usual cold treatment. So I developed an attitude. My wife wanted to know what was wrong, I told her I wanted her to spend a few minutes with me and to pay me some attention. We were on vacation at the beach, I wanted time with my wife. Of course, I was needy, I was ruining our day, I was being controlling.. all the usual. I was really sensing that she was tuned out, and I had suspicions why but didn't want to even think that could be a possibility. That whole fight that day, it was all me.. I was the one that made the fight supposedly. After DDay, I realized there were so many of those fabricated fights she'd use to justify cheating on me. Make me a bad guy, then it's okay to cheat, because I suck.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Yes he deliberately picked fights when he was with her. Or he would be sarcastic and point out how much better a decorator she was then me, how much nicer her house was, On a family trip he tried to make me sit in the back seat and son sit up front, demeaning things.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

indiecat said:


> He sends me long emails on how I am hurting the kids by breaking up the family. And how he just knows he won't live too much longer, and is having heart tests that are not good. And that they are all grieving his mother who died in Feb. The one they never visited. And the kids send me hurtful ones on my abandoning their sick dad.
> 
> I've stopped reading his emails, and am taking a break from texting the kids. It only seems to escalate their alienation when I try to keep in touch.
> 
> I told him over and over, all I needed is you to say you hurt me and are sorry. But it's always the ptsd excuse, or the lecture about how if I was a good Christian I would get over it and not be such a hard woman.


Manipulative, manipulative, manipulative. How old are your children, indiecat?


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Almost 15 and 23. I was a fool not to leave earlier. I gave it 3 years after discovering the affair, a really bad choice. He used the time to poison ds against me. Now he has dd falling for his bad heart, mom doesn't care scenario as well. 

I'd go back, but I know the atmosphere would be deadly. He's in the drivers seat with the kids seeing him as the victim. But living this life is a kind of death. I've seen the kids maybe twice or three times in a year. We used to be very close.


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