# Being June Cleaver



## LailaDay (Apr 23, 2013)

Hi! I'm new to this forum and so first off, I just want to say it's nice to meet you guys. You all seem very smart and very wise!

So at the end of this year my fiancé will be graduating from school (he's getting his MBA) and coming to live with me full time here in New York. I'm still in school here. 

I just purchased an apartment that I take a lot of pride in. I'm a total neat freak and I'm very into decorating and making sure everything smells wonderful.

I've never lived with another person full time before (not counting college roommates). But lately, when fiancé comes to visit me on the weekends, I've been noticing that he isn't very neat.

You may be wondering how I could just have noticed this after nearly five years of being together. We met in college- he lived in a dorm room. And whenever I went over there, it was neat. 

But I've noticed he leaves dishes in the sink when he eats. I've noticed he tosses clothes on the floor when he gets undressed. I've noticed that he leaves hair all over the bathroom sink, sticking in the toothpaste when he shaves. (This is disgusting to me. IMO. Maybe I've over reacting.)

And worst off, I've noticed that after dinner he sits on the couch and goes right to sleep. 

Doesn't even cross his mind to help me.

This is kind of what I'm used to. My mother did everything for my father and I do mean EVERYTHING, including laying out his suits and matching socks on the bed every single morning. She had dinner on the table when he got home. She raised us pretty much by herself. Dad never wanted to do anything with us. He went to work, came home and sat on the couch. Maybe once or twice a year, he'd drag himself to a school play.

I really admired that about her. That sort of "June Cleaver" type thing she had going on where she always looked pretty and took care of her man. 

But I'm not my mother. I'm a full time student and a part time cheerleader. The cheerleading comes with several hours a week in the gym and the dance studio, as well as promotional and charity appearances that I'm contractually obligated to do. Plus, I don't make that much money doing it (100 dollars per home game). 

I make a little more on the side tutoring some undergraduate students at my university. But my point is, I'm busy. 

But my question is this: is it possible to keep this June Cleaver thing up? Or am I going to end up resenting the hell out of him? 

Don't get me wrong, I do like spoiling him. But I think if I allow him to set this pattern now, it could cause issues later. 

I like cleaning so it's not so much the cleaning that upsets me. It's that he seems to have no issue letting me do everything. It's the attitude behind it. 

If he offered hell, I might even say "No thanks, dear." 

But he doesn't even ask.

Worth bringing up?


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## QBall_1981 (Mar 19, 2013)

Not like i have much experience on the boards, but given where i am in my separation/marriage, i'd say you need to be open and honest about your feelings. If it bothers you even a little bit now then i'd say it's going to be something that you're really going to be dissatisfied or unhappy about in a few years (especially after it festers). 

Realize that your opinion matters, you should be heard, and you need to feel like you're taken seriously on ANYTHING you feel is important. Learn to communicate your thoughts!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I used to be just like you. Notice I said 'used to'. Having kids made me rethink the whole 'neat' thing. I'm still neat but June Cleaver I'm not. I could clean and 24 hours later it looks like I haven't done a thing so what's the point? I've learned to let a lot go.

But let me rewind to what I did BEFORE marriage. I actually lived with TWO different guys before picking my husband and this was a part of why. Yes I'm neat and I've got ZERO desire being someone's maid. Guy #1 was a total slob. Piles everywhere, didn't clean dishes, hair everywhere, it was disgusting. I did the June Cleaver thing and that lasted about 6 months before I got sick of being his maid picking up after him. Resentment and irritation was constant. Yeah he had to go (this wasn't the ONLY reason btw)

Guy #2 was neater - we broke up for other reasons.

My husband is neat. Call me silly but this is one of my criteria for marriage. It's that important to me. I'm a homemaker so I do all the cleaning now but he isn't a slob and he will pick up after himself (thanks MIL she trained him well). He puts clothes in the hamper, rinses his dishes off, puts things away and for an OCD person like me I appreciate it. I do the deep cleaning but the least he can do is pick up after himself and he does. He likes it neat the same as I do.

My suggestion is this. DISCUSS IT. ASK FOR HELP. See how he responds. Guy #1 had no interest in cleaning so I never got anywhere with him. He was happy to live in a mess so my words fell on deaf ears. It simply wasn't important to him like it was to me.

I can't live like that. I just can't. I NEED a clean house.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

OP - this is the sort of issue that can be sorted very easily I'm sure. He is probably just unaware that what he's doing is really irritating you and thus a problem.

Talk about it, tell him how mess makes you feel and tell him what you want him to do. 

What kind of home life as a kid did he have. Was it tidy or chaotic?

Your engagement is the perfect time to sort out issues like this...before they become embedded and hard to change.

Also do try to be easy on both of you. You are having a huge time of adjustment as well. He is NOT you and can't be expected to behave like you but you can set boundaries on what is and is not acceptable in your marriage.

Good luck.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> I used to be just like you. Notice I said 'used to'. Having kids made me rethink the whole 'neat' thing. I'm still neat but June Cleaver I'm not. I could clean and 24 hours later it looks like I haven't done a thing so what's the point? I've learned to let a lot go.


Yeah, different areas of my house are clean at different times due to the rotational cleaning/messing with all these people here.

The house is entirely clean once in a blue moon and the wife and I just sit on the couch and stare at it for awhile before it's gone.

:rofl:


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## LailaDay (Apr 23, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I used to be just like you. Notice I said 'used to'. Having kids made me rethink the whole 'neat' thing. I'm still neat but June Cleaver I'm not. I could clean and 24 hours later it looks like I haven't done a thing so what's the point? I've learned to let a lot go.
> 
> But let me rewind to what I did BEFORE marriage. I actually lived with TWO different guys before picking my husband and this was a part of why. Yes I'm neat and I've got ZERO desire being someone's maid. Guy #1 was a total slob. Piles everywhere, didn't clean dishes, hair everywhere, it was disgusting. I did the June Cleaver thing and that lasted about 6 months before I got sick of being his maid picking up after him. Resentment and irritation was constant. Yeah he had to go (this wasn't the ONLY reason btw)
> 
> ...



I've learned just by watching that his mother has waited on him hand and foot since the day he was born. He's an only child and she doted on him like crazy.

I honestly don't think he knows how to clean or really do anything for himself. 

When we were in college, he paid to have all his laundry dry cleaned every semester rather than do it himself.


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## LailaDay (Apr 23, 2013)

waiwera said:


> OP - this is the sort of issue that can be sorted very easily I'm sure. He is probably just unaware that what he's doing is really irritating you and thus a problem.
> 
> Talk about it, tell him how mess makes you feel and tell him what you want him to do.
> 
> ...


His home life was very privileged. He had a full time housekeeper as well as a mother who doted on him.

Going to the future in law's is surreal. I mean, literally he plants his ass on the couch and people ask him if he wants anything.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

LailaDay said:


> His home life was very privileged. He had a full time housekeeper as well as a mother who doted on him.
> 
> Going to the future in law's is surreal. I mean, literally he plants his ass on the couch and people ask him if he wants anything.


I hate to be the bearer of bad new but my best friend married a man like just like this (his family had money) and he NEVER got better. He'd drop his shoes in the MIDDLE of the floor for them all to trip over, he'd leave his plate ON THE TABLE, it drove my friend absolutely batty.

The ONLY time he cleaned was when HIS parents came to visit (because he felt she didn't do to his satisfaction). So he knew how to clean he just didn't. 

They divorced after 10 years of marriage. They had an in house separation and you don't even want to know how bad his room smelled. 

My MIL waited on my FIL hand in foot but my husband went the opposite direction. He vowed he'd never treat HIS wife that way and for 21 years he hasn't.


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## LailaDay (Apr 23, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad new but my best friend married a man like just like this (his family had money) and he NEVER got better. He'd drop his shoes in the MIDDLE of the floor for them all to trip over, he'd leave his plate ON THE TABLE, it drove my friend absolutely batty.
> 
> The ONLY time he cleaned was when HIS parents came to visit (because he felt she didn't do to his satisfaction). So he knew how to clean he just didn't.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

I'm so glad you found such a wonderful man. Gosh, you've been married as long as I've been alive.

Maybe I should listen to you! 

I love fiancé very much. I might just have to suck it up and ask him to clean.

I've got a difficult time finding my voice box. My dad was always very "women should be seen and not heard" type of guy. 

Since I've started professional cheerleading, he hasn't spoken to me because he takes issue with the revealing uniform.

I admit it is a little revealing (it makes me a little uncomfortable) but he can get over it.

It's not 1954. Maybe I should send fiancé that memo.


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## nothingtodeclare (Apr 13, 2013)

*Re: Re: Being June Cleaver*



LailaDay said:


> I might just have to suck it up and ask him to clean.
> 
> I've got a difficult time finding my voice box.


Now is the time to find that voice, not after the wedding. I bet he has no problem with the other trappings of dating a cheerleader (in shape woman) so he better get over your job.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

LailaDay said:


> That sort of "June Cleaver" type ....


Even June Cleaver slacked off in some areas. There was an episode when the family was at the table and Dad asked Beaver why his shirt was inside out. He explained that all of his shirts were dirty and the one he was wearing was the cleanest dirty shirt he had, so he turned it inside out to make it look clean. Wonder what other things June neglected.


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## PaperTiger (Mar 19, 2013)

BE CAREFUL!! I won't tell you to send him packing or anything that dramatic, but writing as a person who had no intention of living the "June Cleaver life", it's far more difficult that TV makes it appear. I admire your mother for being strong enough to do that. 

I am not a neat freak, but I prefer things on the neater side. And my husband could care less. As long as he doesn't have to do anything other than go to work and come home, he's fine. I also lay out his clothes every morning. It becomes much more difficult to keep things in order when several people make the mess, but only one person is left to clean it up. Once a kid was in the mix, I added all that cleaning/washing/etc. to it, and your life can become consumed with scrubbing up one mess after another, knowing that no one is going to give you a break. Few things are more frustrating than spending the day working, taking care of your family, cleaning, cooking, while your spouse sits in the armchair surfing the internet, or playing a video game. 

I would suggest at least discussing this with your fiance about his cleaning habits, or lack thereof. All relationships have to have compromise, and that means you as well. See if you can work out a method that works for both of you BEFORE you move in together (like washing/drying the dishes together after a meal). Whatever works for the two of you.

I really hope you are able to work something out. Good luck in your future.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

LailaDay said:


> I've got a difficult time finding my voice box.
> 
> My dad was always very "women should be seen and not heard" type of guy.


Are you okay with being a woman who isn't heard? 

I also see a red flag in regards to your dad.

Is he the reason you strive to be so perfect aka June Cleaver?

My dad was like yours and he's why I ended up this way. Therapy got me over it (in addition to the kids). I remember going to therapy one day laughing because I actually went to bed WITHOUT doing the dishes. :smthumbup:


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm concerned that you're having trouble communicating about something important to you with the man you want to marry. You probably think you're making a big deal out of nothing and minimizing it but this is not a something to question whether you have a right to feel this way or not. This is something that needs to be discussed. He sounds like he might be entitled and spoiled and seriously and honestly expects you to do these things. You might become disgusted or resentful when you finally do have this conversation with him and you find out his feeling of where he stands in the relationship and where you stand - to serve him. 

This engagement period where he moves in is a test, it's not a lifetime commitment, although it will be if you are as content as he is. However, if this slight knawing feeling becomes a thorn in your side brewing resentment, which leads to anger, less sex, less communication, more unhappiness, then you'll know that this guy doted on by maids all his life is not the guy for your. You want equality and respect and help around the house. And you're not asking him to clean the toilet bowl, you're just asking him to do what my 8 year old is expected to do - clear off the table.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Welcome to married life.

My dude would 'farmer john' it in the shower and leave his boogers on the wall. Yea. I nipped that quickly. gross!


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## LailaDay (Apr 23, 2013)

that_girl said:


> Welcome to married life.
> 
> My dude would 'farmer john' it in the shower and leave his boogers on the wall. Yea. I nipped that quickly. gross!


THAT IS DISGUSTING. 

:soapbox::soapbox::soapbox::soapbox::soapbox:

My fiancé leaves his underwear just...anywhere. I find it so damn off putting. 

I feel like I should not have to pick up a grown man's underwear. 

He says he's too busy and tired because he's getting his MBA but guess what, I'm getting a law degree and I can still pick up my damn underwear. I also have a job. So seriously.


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## LailaDay (Apr 23, 2013)

IsGirl3 said:


> I'm concerned that you're having trouble communicating about something important to you with the man you want to marry. You probably think you're making a big deal out of nothing and minimizing it but this is not a something to question whether you have a right to feel this way or not. This is something that needs to be discussed. He sounds like he might be entitled and spoiled and seriously and honestly expects you to do these things. You might become disgusted or resentful when you finally do have this conversation with him and you find out his feeling of where he stands in the relationship and where you stand - to serve him.
> 
> This engagement period where he moves in is a test, it's not a lifetime commitment, although it will be if you are as content as he is. However, if this slight knawing feeling becomes a thorn in your side brewing resentment, which leads to anger, less sex, less communication, more unhappiness, then you'll know that this guy doted on by maids all his life is not the guy for your. You want equality and respect and help around the house. And you're not asking him to clean the toilet bowl, you're just asking him to do what my 8 year old is expected to do - clear off the table.


I really just am boggled that he can see me doing something and just go ahead and take a nap.

I wonder if that complacency is going to spread like cancer.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Op - this privileged life thing is a bit of a worry.

I certainly don't like your chances of changing him if this is the case.

I too am quite anal about my house and gardens. I like cleanliness and order and I'm the queen of decluttering ( sigh... opposites attract...I'm married to a disorganized hoarder) but I do have to keep reminding myself that...that's just me and not everyone else thinks like me and a necessary part of living in a marriage or a community is being flexible and allowing for differences.

But with some boundaries


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

LailaDay said:


> His home life was very privileged. He had a full time housekeeper as well as a mother who doted on him.
> 
> Going to the future in law's is surreal. I mean, literally he plants his ass on the couch and people ask him if he wants anything.


I think it's a grave mistake to not allow our sons to fend for themselves... this even sets them up for problems in their marriages ....as so many women work today...these men NEED to understand chores will be halved to allow a smooth running household. 

There are days in our house, with a slew of kids, I just say ..."you don't like what I cook....fend for yourselves!" ... Ya know..I don't wait on them hand & foot... they learn to DO for themselves.....so once they go off to college, they are set! They wouldn't be taking their clothes to the dry cleaners, they'd learn how to live on a dime also. 

I do , however, take care of the husband... he's #1 ... He works hard every day ... and really I tend to THINK much like SweetiePie's post...being a SAHM (even with a few sides jobs)...

I feel the idea marital situation is when husband & wife both recognize what the other brings to the marriage...validating each other...always with a willingness to help... 

But hopefully.... IF we both do our parts ....manage our time away from each other well ... my managing the household when he is at work / helping him with some of his projects that he needs a hand..... that way when he comes through that door every day.......the vast majority of his nights are FREED up....time to goof off, catch moments alone ....or hang as a family ....as you never know what is on the horizon.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

SweetiePie said:


> I am very much a "june cleaver" type. I am 25 and a SAHM to two wonderful kids and an excellent husband that is a great husband, lover and provider
> 
> I've never been one of those women that cared about a "career". I've seen SO many women that are 40+ that have great careers but lament not having children or, if they do, not being able to spend as much time with them as they'd like or miss important events.
> 
> ...


You are not alone. Right now I work full time AND do all the cooking and cleaning and H takes care of the yard work and the cars. That's works for us so it's not a problem. 

In about 5 months I will be a SAHM and I absolutely look forward to it even though I know I have no idea what I'm getting myself into. 

How have you managed taking care of the household, the kids and making sure your husband needs are met?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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