# Masturbation and fantasy confusion.



## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

After a few weeks of regular chats with my wife, a few things have become apparent.
1. She rarely thinks about sex when I'm not around.
2. She doesn't fantasise whilst masturbating. I found this out when I asked what kind of things she thinks about whilst using her vibrator. I made it clear that it was ok and entirely normal to fantasise about other men, before she gave her reply.
She went on to tell me that she clears her mind, listens to the TV and just let's it all happen....
I do actually believe her.
She does EXACTLY the same thing every time. It even takes roughly the same amount of time every time, give or take a minute.

I've previously posted that her orgasms seem "weak" to me, although they are very real .
Does any of this sound "normal"? It seems very strange to me, almost as if she's trained her body to just react to the stimulus without needing to be mentally in the zone.
She agrees that her vibrator induced (clitoral) orgasms are weaker than her PIV ones with me ( and I find them to be quite weak as previously stated ).
She has never explored herself in a sexual way with her fingers but I'm encouraging her to do this whilst integrating fantasy into the act.

Do any women out there have any direct experience they'd like to share?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

We'll I can't get there without the fantasy playing out in my head. I'm glad my H has never asked because I have no intention of ever telling.

Sometimes I use one of my fantasies while we're having sex, but not all the time. I don't try to control what happens in my head during sex except to focus on the feelings.

I have no idea what is normal for women, we don't tend to follow the same path as men when it comes to sex in general.

I think you should encourage your wife to fantasize and explore her dirty mind. I don't think you should ask her to share though. Letting her know you'd like to know is different from asking her to tell you. How about you encourage her to read some dirty smutty stories as a jumping off point?


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Good idea. Cheers
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Would you consider imagining having sex with someone other than your partner when masturbating as being unfaithful?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Everyone is different I imagine. Maybe she just doesn't want to tell you, though. 

I don't know that I fantasize about other men as much as certain scenarios that work for me. That is to say there is rarely a specific identity i.e. someone I know, someone I dated, someone famous. There is usually a male presence, but it's one made up out of my imagination.

Specific man or not I don't find fantasizing to be unfaithful. 

If you were falling in love with someone and were thinking about them instead of your spouse - that would qualify as unfaithful in my book. There's a line but I don't think it generally gets crossed.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

askari said:


> Would you consider imagining having sex with someone other than your partner when masturbating as being unfaithful?


Certainly not! What happens in your head, stays in your head!


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

there's not much going on in this head....


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

After reading My Secret Garden....I know there are lots of sexy thoughts going thru women's heads. I think it is AWESOME! 

Men do the same thing mentally. I think that women, my wife included, just don't talk about it as openly as men do. Just my opinion. Maybe I am wrong?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I Notice The Details said:


> After reading My Secret Garden....I know there are lots of sexy thoughts going thru women's heads. I think it is AWESOME!
> 
> Men do the same thing mentally. I think that women, my wife included, just don't talk about it as openly as men do. Just my opinion. Maybe I am wrong?


I think you're right INTD. I think the vast majority of women DO have sexual fantasies, but they would rather have their toe nails pulled out the be forced to fess up about them. I can still remember some of my extremely childish fantasies when I was a little girl. Hint, it involved a handsome prince and ropes!


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

She doesnt trust you enough to tell you her fantasies. Maybe you should show her that it's ok by telling her yours first.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I don't fantasize during masturbation or sex. I really just close my eyes and concentrate on how my body is feeling and reacting. My husband was most disappointed to find out that I don't always remove my clothing to masturbate either, I think that ruined one of his fantasies. 😧


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Antman said:


> After a few weeks of regular chats with my wife, a few things have become apparent.
> 1. She rarely thinks about sex when I'm not around.
> 2. She doesn't fantasise whilst masturbating. I found this out when I asked what kind of things she thinks about whilst using her vibrator. I made it clear that it was ok and entirely normal to fantasise about other men, before she gave her reply.
> She went on to tell me that she clears her mind, listens to the TV and just let's it all happen....
> ...


Yes this is how I did it when I was very young. I couldn't "O" unless I cleared my mind because I would find myself thinking about shopping lists...what I was going to fix for supper ...etc. I did this because I was in a hurry and it was a way of release....as I got older and relaxed more I started to fantacize more....the "O" are weaker if you don't do anything but clear your mind....they are just a release.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Giro flee said:


> I don't fantasize during masturbation or sex. I really just close my eyes and concentrate on how my body is feeling and reacting. My husband was most disappointed to find out that I don't always remove my clothing to masturbate either, I think that ruined one of his fantasies. 😧


Have you ever ready any erotic stories that pushed your buttons?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

All people aren't the same!

Some people really don't fantasize during MB, and actually this is healthier for you. I'll probably get slammed for this but...if you get into learning about tantric sex and similar forms of sexual expansion and learning, you will find that in order to achieve some of these states you do have to have a clear mind.

For people who cannot have an orgasm without some kind of fantasy going on in their heads, they will not be able to get to those tantric exercises.

In his book No More Mr. Nice Guy, Robert Glover talks about his concept of healthy masturbation. All it means is masturbation without the use of porn OR fantasy...staying focused on YOURSELF. This isn't quite the same as sensate therapy exercises, because it isn't "just" focusing on the sensations you are feeling. But he means being focused on yourself, your own pleasure, and discovering HOW it all feels instead of removing your mind from your body and going somewhere else with it.

If you use fantasy (or porn) to get off, it is all good...BUT if you CAN'T get off without it, that isn't so good.

To the OP, I would just believe your wife is a healthy person and not try to encourage her to change. How about instead YOU try to learn to have an O while only focusing on yourself, your body, and your own pleasure? If you don't normally do that, you might find your wife's way is actually hard to achieve for you. If it is, you should work on it until you can do it. There are skills to be learned when you are focused entirely on yourself instead of on mental or physical imagery.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

That's all well and good but I've never been able to clear my mind, ever! And I have tried and tried. The best compromise is to focus on something. I count myself disciplined if I start and end with the SAME fantasy.


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## H30 (Nov 23, 2013)

Eh, I don't really fantasize during playtime either. I like to read stories or watch some porn sometimes that will turn me on, but I don't really play it out in my mind. I'd rather concentrate on what is happening at the moment.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

I just finished reading a book called "My Secret Garden, Women's Sexual Fantasies" by Nancy Friday. 

It's not just a book to tittilate the reader, it is huge sampling of women's candid submission about their fantasies and mastrabatory experiences. The author has so shame or humiliation about sharing some of the most common and some of the most horrifying fantasies that were shared with her. 

It gives an amazing amount of insight into the experiences that shape many women's fantasies. It was certainly eye opening for me...and helped to accept many of the thoughts that privately run through my head that I was rather ashamed or embarrased of. 

It has a really good section about women that have shared their fantasies with their partners and how that has helped to improve and open up their sex lives.

I would certainly suggest purchasing the book to share with your wife and as well as reading it yourself.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> *Ugh*
> 
> This is exactly how I get off and it's why I _really_ don't enjoy doing it in front of my husband. I don't feel the need to put on a show for masturbation and having someone ask what is going in my head and what I'm fantasizing about and putting on a show to prove how awesome my orgasms are. It's my time, my orgasm, leave me alone.
> 
> Sorry if I sound a little harsh a little but it's a little frustrating to be called abnormal or have my own orgasms in question because I masturbate quietly without fantasizing...previous partners have done so. To me they are two separate entities; masturbation is meditation and fantasies/intercourse are my hymns. Every woman is different and it's so much more liberating sexually to be adored for those differences, seriously.


And who has called you abnormal?

Look, we are all essentially saying the same thing. "This is how I get off, but everyone is different. Most women do have sexual fantasies, but not everyone likes to share." 

Note a difference between sexual fantasies and fantasizing while masturbating....

In fact, the only one who has made a single judgment call about what is normal and healthy is faithful wife by both quoting Dr Glover's opinion on healthy masturbation and her own sentiment when she declared that "If you use fantasy (or porn) to get off, it is all good...BUT if you CAN'T get off without it, that isn't so good."

I frankly don't give a hoot what dr glover declares is healthy for me or not. Once he's walked a mile in my shoes he can then make a suggestion that I MIGHT listen to but probably won't follow.

ETA, let's also not loose sight of the fact that Glover's book was written for men and his suggestions pertain specifically to a males sexuality.

Sheeshe women. Sensitive much? Different...good...okay?


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## H30 (Nov 23, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> *Ugh*
> 
> This is exactly how I get off and it's why I _really_ don't enjoy doing it in front of my husband. I don't feel the need to put on a show for masturbation and having someone ask what is going in my head and what I'm fantasizing about and putting on a show to prove how awesome my orgasms are. It's my time, my orgasm, leave me alone.





Anon Pink said:


> And who has called you abnormal?
> 
> 
> Sheeshe women. Sensitive much? Different...good...okay?


Anon, I think perhaps Frenchfry meant that in her situation that her husband's expectations of masturbating doesn't match up to her reality, it can be frustrating. Frenchfry, my husband has a thing about wanting to watch me too and it's too much to put on a show. My main issue with it isn't that he's asking me questions (thank goodness) but I worry that he might feel insecure that things are different. Orgasms are different. Everything is different. Not better or worse, just different.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Good gosh. I didn't mean to start a **** fight!
I was asking for other women's experiences.
I'm beginning to think my wife may have been either sexually abused or possibly suffering from some form of PTSD.
She's having ZERO erotic thoughts until presented with her naked spouse. Her libido has dropped off since extra stressors have been introduced into her life.
She seems to use sex and masturbation as a release mechanism - more concerned with the destination than the trip itself.
I enter the room while she's asleep and she will wake with a massive gasp - as you would if in fear if your life. I asked why she does this, she tells me I could've been an intruder - we live in a VERY nice area with virtually no crime and the house is secure.
She's having recurrent dreams if the children dying. 
She seems to find the worst case scenario in every eventuality.
I'm concerned for her well being and thought if start with the smile stuff, like masturbatory habits and erotic thoughts/fantasies...
Anyone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Does she have Post Partum Depression? 

This is starting to sound more and more like that. Especially if she's having disturbing thoughts and dreams about violence and children dying. 

(Incidently I do think FrenchFry was reacting to the OP's notion that his wife couldn't possibly be thinking of nothing - she has likely gotten this feedback on her own method before.)


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

She's stressed out and having anxiety dreams. That's the underlying issue, and the one she needs to get to the bottom of. Focusing on her masturbation and fantasies seems an odd place to focus as a starting point.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

In that case I apologize for not paying better attention while reading and reaching the wrong conclusion. So sorry FF.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

norajane said:


> She's stressed out and having anxiety dreams. That's the underlying issue, and the one she needs to get to the bottom of. Focusing on her masturbation and fantasies seems an odd place to focus as a starting point.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

norajane said:


> She's stressed out and having anxiety dreams. That's the underlying issue, and the one she needs to get to the bottom of. Focusing on her masturbation and fantasies seems an odd place to focus as a starting point.


You're absolutely correct. She's a natural "stress head" but I only really noticed when her libido changed.
I started taking notes of the things she's saying and it all points to a seriously worried/anxious personality ATM.
The list is quite comprehensive. I'm going to see a psychologist next week.
The main drama is that my wife says there's no problem, she's always been like this she says. Seems like she's trying to justify her actions by defining them as "normal for her".
I see a difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Antman said:


> You're absolutely correct. She's a natural "stress head" *but I only really noticed when her libido changed.*


OK, I have to do this now, because you gave me the opening...

:soapbox:

Please, please don't make it a habit to not notice or address significant issues until they impact your sex life. And then don't focus on the sex problem as THE problem! Address issues sooner, notice them long before your sex life drops to nothing, or else you'll be contributing to your sex life dropping to nothing.

Years ago, I lived with someone and, no matter what I said or how I tried to get through to him, he wouldn't notice or address any issues we were having until I was finally so done that I didn't want to have sex with him anymore. That's when he finally noticed we had problems, but unfortunately, all he noticed was the sex problem.

Ok, off my soapbox now. 

I realize I don't have your full story, and you aren't like my ex, but if you go the marriage counselor and say, "I'm worried about my wife. She isn't interested in sex and I think her masturbation habits aren't normal," I guarantee that you will get nowhere. Your wife will think that you only care about the sex, and not her overall mental health and welfare.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Antman, I hope you do help your wife check into her anxiety issues, as that can be a problem. 

In your first post you said: "It seems very strange to me, almost as if she's trained her body to just react to the stimulus without needing to be mentally in the zone."

This is what prompted my response to you. I just don't think it is fair for you to try to "grade" her orgasms because she doesn't do it like you do. I also think it is shortsighted of you to feel that the fact that she "trained her body to the stimulus without needing to be mentally in the zone" is some kind of hindrance to her that she needs your help correcting.

She is achieving orgasms in the most natural way...by experiencing pleasure in her body without having to imagine or look at fantasy pictures. You actually should try it her way and see just how much skill you can build by achieving it!

Anon, yes in NMMNG Robert Glover is writing to men and about men. BUT the reason he is suggesting his healthy masturbation exercise is because ANYONE can get "stuck" only being able to orgasm in response to visual or mental imagery. Not just men, but women have this problem, too. If it isn't a problem in your sex life, then great. But for many people, learning to do the healthy masturbation exercise would really help them. I know women who can't get off by simply being with their partner, they also must fantasize about being tied to a tree or similar. And if that's ok with them, then great...but some of them actually struggle to rid themselves of this habit because they want to respond with an orgasm to the actual pleasure they are receiving from their actual husband and not have a bunch of dancing boys in their head at the same time.

I'm not saying that having mental fantasies is bad...I'm just saying, this man's wife is healthy and having orgasms in her natural way, and why on earth would anyone encourage her to add fantasy to it? Why would we assume that would make it better for HER? I can understand suggesting adding fantasy for a woman or man who couldn't get off at all and was trying to find a path way. But this woman is healthy and getting off just fine.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Honestly I am a person who thinks of nothing while I masturbate.

Nothing at all. I clear my mind, and just relax.

Every once in a while I'll think of my husband, but it usually it just a fleeting thought, and I go back to thinking of nothing.

Maybe I'm strange.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Antman said:


> Good gosh. I didn't mean to start a **** fight!
> I was asking for other women's experiences.
> I'm beginning to think my wife may have been either sexually abused or possibly suffering from some form of PTSD.
> She's having ZERO erotic thoughts until presented with her naked spouse. Her libido has dropped off since extra stressors have been introduced into her life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife doesn't masturbate at all. When asked if she fantasizes about sex, she says never, not even when watching a movie with her favorite male star, all ripped with his shirt off. I believe her, given all of the data I've collected over the years. She is still perfectly arouse-able and fully orgasmic without the fantasies or erotic imagination. 

There's no PTSD. She's not abnormal unless you're defining normal as 1 standard deviation from the mean. All human behavior is distributed across a distribution that includes just about every kind of situation you can imagine.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

I definitely fantasize but I would only tell them to someone I trust.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

My wife told me tonight that she doesn't usually fantasize when using her vibrator. I assured her that it is great if she did, but she said she just concentrates on the feeling. She sounds like many of the other women here. 

As a man, I just ASSUMED that she fantasized, because that is what I do to get in the mood at times. Maybe it is more a man thing...since we are so visual. Very interesting......i like learning new details like this!


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