# I Have a Much Higher Sex Drive than my wife - looking for a safe space to discuss



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

I really enjoy sex. Always have. I love pleasuring my wife and before her, all my previous flings/relationships. I have a very high sex drive; my wife does not - especially after our daughter.

I’ve read about everything I can and I just need to talk it out with someone not in my immediate circle. Maybe writing this will help.

But it’s so frustrating. I feel like I have done everything the experts say. I’ve tried to empathize, make our environment and work/life balance more conducive, made things less about sex and more about non physical intimacy, etc. But my wife is either all about our baby (which I get) or all about her job (which I get). But I want to be young and do something crazy now and again.

We both work about the same, me a little more though it changes depending on trial schedules, etc; we’re lawyers.

I can’t make her less stressed. I can’t make her change her mind about her body after the baby. I can’t make her want me more…this sucks.

Meanwhile, I’m 33 and not to be a cocky asshole, but pretty decent looking except for being on the shorter side (confidence makes up for it, ha) but my point is that women throw it at me quite a bit despite my ring.

My mind has started to wander at times and I can’t and won’t do that, but it adds to the frustration. I hope that makes sense.

i just want to feel her and be young again with her - not like we’re some old couple whose hung it up. I don’t want a sexless marriage, and once a month isn’t enough for me honestly. I’ve tried selfpleasuring but that feels empty and adds to the frustration.

I don’t know what to do. I’m an honorable man. I’m not gonna cheat, and I’m not gonna leave my wife and child. But something has to change. I’m very frustrated.

We’ve had some productive convos but it’s like you make a little progress and then go backward and even still, when I try and she says no, I feel so rejected. It really hurts. I know i shouldn’t always take it personal but I do. I feel unwanted by her. Add in the fact that COVID sucked ass and we almost got divorced and so sometimes it feels like she doesn’t want me at all.

I don’t understand not wanting to have sex; that’s just crazy since I want it so much. I could literally have sex all day, multiple times. I’m really trying to be a good husband and find an equilibrium.

I don’t know if this will help or hurt and hopefully she doesn’t read this and get mad at me - last thing I need. But I’m sitting her next to her for the umpfteenth time unsatisfied and frustrated and it sucks. I’m tired of being rejected by wife - who the crap else can a married man have sex with.

I don’t want to make it an entitlement thing, but practically speaking…I mean, who else?

Maybe some of the ladies on here can help me understand more and I can be a better husband or cope better. I don’t want to pressure her, and I know she probably feels some when I have a reaction after getting rejected or from the numerous times we’ve discussed this. But how else am I supposed to express it and work on it with her? Then it becomes a blame game or just about sex like the articles say and then you’ve lost again.

This sucks. I’m frustrated and I love my wife and everything about her. I just want to be happy.

I appreciate the thoughts and suggestions. Thanks for ready

-GD33


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> I don’t know what to do. I’m an honorable man. I’m not gonna cheat, and I’m not gonna leave my wife and child. But something has to change. I’m very frustrated.


You would do well to try to figure out why, you are willing to paint yourself into a corner and rely on your wife to determine your marital destiny. Through your own unwillingness ,to do something to resolve your situation.



> I don’t know if this will help or hurt and hopefully she doesn’t read this and get mad at me - last thing I need. But I’m sitting her next to her for the umpfteenth time unsatisfied and frustrated and it sucks. I’m tired of being rejected by wife - who the crap else can a married man have sex with.


You shouldn't fear your wife, for finding out that you are posting about your dissatisfaction with her preference to mostly avoid sex with you.

As to who else, given your wife's desire not to have sex with you, you should feel free to have sex with whoever you like as long as it's consensual.



> I don’t want to make it an entitlement thing, but practically speaking…I mean, who else?


Again my recommendation on who else, is whoever wants to mutually share sex with you.



> Maybe some of the ladies on here can help me understand more and I can be a better husband or cope better.


Since all of your other efforts in the same vein have been in vain.



> I don’t want to pressure her, and I know she probably feels some when I have a reaction after getting rejected or from the numerous times we’ve discussed this.


If you sulk, get huffy, beg, plead etc, you ought to appreciate that you are barking up the wrong tree.

Do you really think you can negotiate sexual desire with your wife?

That said, how many interminable discussions to no end are you going to engage in over this?

At the end of the day if your wife no longer wants to have sex with you, all you are left with is a wife who doesn't want to have sex with you.



> But how else am I supposed to express it and work on it with her? Then it becomes a blame game or just about sex like the articles say and then you’ve lost again.


Given her evident disinterest in fixing this, you could just stop wasting your time and divorce her.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

How old is your daughter? Does your wife work?

EDIT: I can see the daughter is a baby and your wife is a lawyer...


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I wish you the best, but these things rarely get better and often get worse...

One thing I would try to figure out, (because you said the sex faucet turned off after the kid), is was she only really compliant to get to that point and now that she has her child, she no longer feels the need to reciprocate? If that's the case, then you are really done as far as sex goes....Like perhaps her desire for you really was never that strong, but she was willing to do it because she saw that you are a good guy, good provider, whatever...

The other possibility is something is bothering her, and as a result, she withdrew but wont talk about it.....This is something men often do rather than women, IME, but who knows? 

Hang around this place and you will quickly realize that your situation isn't unique..I think you have to find out what the reason is, before you know how to approach it...Nagging her about it, may get you some starfish duty type of sex, which while some people will say that's enough, I personally think it's worse than nothing at all...

Good luck..


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

How often do you have sex?


----------



## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> Add in the fact that COVID sucked ass and we almost got divorced and so sometimes it feels like she doesn’t want me at all.


This is a pretty big statement. What happened? how did you resolve it?

To state you almost got divorced, and relatively recently I assume, is it really solved or is she still finding her way back to you?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> But my wife is either all about our baby (which I get) or all about her job (which I get).


How old is the baby? Is your wife breastfeeding her? 



GirlDad33SBP said:


> We both work about the same, me a little more though it changes depending on trial schedules, etc; we’re lawyers.


You mentioned your wife being stressed which is understandable if she's a lawyer. Does she have any hobbies or activities she does that are just for her which take her mind from work? When was the last time you two had a vacation?


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> How often do you have sex?


Looks like around once a month from what he wrote in one sentence but not sure if thats all the time?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Read “The Dead Bedroom Fix” by @dadstartingover and then “Married Man’s Sex Life Primer” by Athol Kay. Start your 180.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I have a simple question that requires a simple (yet not easy) answer. 

How long are you willing to provide an extreme level of service to someone who is unwilling to do the same for you?



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

Lila said:


> How old is the baby? Is your wife breastfeeding her?
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned your wife being stressed which is understandable if she's a lawyer. Does she have any hobbies or activities she does that are just for her which take her mind from work? When was the last time you two had a vacation?


Recently and now actually but it’s a family one which you know, is what it is.

She needs more hobbies other than TV and baby but gets upset if I try and suggest them and it’s not her idea. It’s really the weight gain and body change, which I can do absolutely nothing about. It’s not like I’m no longer interested. It’s just about how she feels, I guess.

Im not hopeless but hopeful that there’s so middle ground but judging by the replies, maybe not. I’ll check the book out someone recommended


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> Recently and now actually but it’s a family one which you know, is what it is.
> 
> She needs more hobbies other than TV and baby but gets upset if I try and suggest them and it’s not her idea. It’s really the weight gain and body change, which I can do absolutely nothing about. It’s not like I’m no longer interested. It’s just about how she feels, I guess.
> 
> Im not hopeless but hopeful that there’s so middle ground but judging by the replies, maybe not. I’ll check the book out someone recommended


How old is the baby?


----------



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

MarmiteC said:


> This is a pretty big statement. What happened? how did you resolve it?
> 
> To state you almost got divorced, and relatively recently I assume, is it really solved or is she still finding her way back to you?


I think we’re still finding our way back. COVID was tough for us all. My firm has had a million conflict checks for divorce during that time and I know people are struggling.

For us, it surrounded firing our childcare without consulting me and then the resulting disagreement.There’s more to it but she felt like I wasn’t supportive enough in the first 8 months of having our daughter. She was on maternity leave and I had just started at a new firm and was trying to make sure I was excelling and putting myself and the family in a strong long term position. I couldn’t read her mind then or ever but I’ve kind of figured it out now and get what she needs, so we’re much better. My daughter is 2 1/2 so maybe it was just the timing. But we went to counseling and worked through stuff.

Sex is getting better kind of, but it’s still not enough and I’m just trying to learn to deal.


----------



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

Lila said:


> How old is the baby?


2 1/2 and she’s my everything. I would never let her grow up in a house without me, which is why the suggestions about divorce are a no go. I also love my wife; I just want this to get better


----------



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

Lila said:


> How old is the baby? Is your wife breastfeeding her?
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned your wife being stressed which is understandable if she's a lawyer. Does she have any hobbies or activities she does that are just for her which take her mind from work? When was the last time you two had a vacation?


And my daughter is 2 1/2 so we’re past that now though it was It’s own thing


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So your child is 2.5 and sex is still once a month. 

I'd call her a toddler....not a baby.


----------



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

Livvie said:


> So your child is 2.5 and sex is still once a month.
> 
> I'd call her a toddler....not a baby.


Touché


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> *she felt like I wasn’t supportive enough in the first 8 months of having our daughter*. She was on maternity leave and I had just started at a new firm and was trying to make sure I was excelling and putting myself and the family in a strong long term position. I couldn’t read her mind then or ever but I’ve kind of figured it out now and get what she needs, so we’re much better. My daughter is 2 1/2 so maybe it was just the timing. But we went to counseling and worked through stuff.
> 
> Sex is getting better kind of, but it’s still not enough and I’m just trying to learn to deal.


Ah, you "abandoned" her when she needed you the most. So resentment + body image + toddler = almost no sex. I don't think this is irreparable, but she might have emotionally detached from you. If you are not considering divorce, prepare for a lifelong unpleasant sentence.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> I think we’re still finding our way back. COVID was tough for us all. My firm has had a million conflict checks for divorce during that time and I know people are struggling.
> 
> For us, it surrounded firing our childcare without consulting me and then the resulting disagreement.There’s more to it but she felt like I wasn’t supportive enough in the first 8 months of having our daughter. She was on maternity leave and I had just started at a new firm and was trying to make sure I was excelling and putting myself and the family in a strong long term position. I couldn’t read her mind then or ever but I’ve kind of figured it out now and get what she needs, so we’re much better. My daughter is 2 1/2 so maybe it was just the timing. But we went to counseling and worked through stuff.
> 
> Sex is getting better kind of, but it’s still not enough and I’m just trying to learn to deal.


You say it's getting better but haven't answered how often you have sex.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> You say it's getting better but haven't answered how often you have sex.


It was once a month, so maybe once every 28 days?


----------



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> You say it's getting better but haven't answered how often you have sex.


Once a month about. Sometimes longer. I ALWAYS initiate


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> Once a month about. Sometimes longer. I ALWAYS initiate


ouch!


----------



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Ah, you "abandoned" her when she needed you the most. So resentment + body image + toddler = almost no sex. I don't think this is irreparable, but she might have emotionally detached from you. If you are not considering divorce, prepare for a lifelong unpleasant sentence.


Yea, she claimed that but it was BS. I was there every damn day; I worked my butt off and then came home and immediately did whatever she needed. She just hated being home with our baby, now toddler, during that maternity leave period where she was making far more than her succeeding job in our new city (we moved when we had our baby). So business wise and family wise, it was best. But she wanted to go work so she left early. Then it was about her not having friends in our new city. It’s always something. Drives me nuts.

It really bothers me that she acts like I wasn’t there for her. Like really really does. I was there; it was just a whole new experience for both of us. Obviously, she carried our daughter, but I’ve been there physically and emotionally through everything. Sorry, but that is a raw spot for me


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> It was once a month, so maybe once every 28 days?


Except it's worse than that.



GirlDad33SBP said:


> Once a month about. Sometimes longer. I ALWAYS initiate


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> It really bothers me that she acts like I wasn’t there for her. Like really really does. I was there; it was just a whole new experience for both of us. Obviously, she carried our daughter, but I’ve been there physically and emotionally through everything. Sorry, but that is a raw spot for me


Do either of you actually like each other?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> Yea, she claimed that but it was BS. I was there every damn day; I worked my butt off and then came home and immediately did whatever she needed. She just hated being home with our baby, now toddler, during that maternity leave period where she was making far more than her succeeding job in our new city (we moved when we had our baby). So business wise and family wise, it was best. But she wanted to go work so she left early. Then it was about her not having friends in our new city. It’s always something. Drives me nuts.
> 
> It really bothers me that she acts like I wasn’t there for her. Like really really does. I was there; it was just a whole new experience for both of us. Obviously, she carried our daughter, but I’ve been there physically and emotionally through everything. Sorry, but that is a raw spot for me


Thanks for the reply... then *she thinks* that you have abandoned her. But it doesn't matter, does it? Obviously, she hates her life.


----------



## GirlDad33SBP (Jul 26, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> ouch!


Tell me about it. And it’s one of my favorite things in life haha.


----------



## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

'I would never let her grow up in a house without me, which is why the suggestions about divorce are a no go."


Sorry, Just like the ILYBIANILWY speech means affair, the statement above almost guarantees your situation is only going to get worse. If it does improve, it will only be temporary. She doesnt feel the need to change, and why should she? YOU are never leaving (you will probably think about it again in about 1 and a half years) she KNOWS that. 

Save yourself some time and figure out self pleasuring as that is the only way you are going to have more sex.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> Once a month about. Sometimes longer. I ALWAYS initiate


So if you initiate more frequently she says no every time?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

You need to start on a 180 today if you can. Read up on the references I suggested. DSO’s book you should be able to easily read through or listen to in a single day and that will get you started.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Hey brother, my advice is once a month is unacceptable for marriage and I also have a 3 year old girl (and many older kids) but my wife doesn’t work. I’m going to assume your wife loves you and all I can say is try and find what works. Hire babysitters, reduce work schedules, downsize your lifestyle- whatever it takes so you can enjoy the marital “bond”... per a lot of comments some are suggesting your wife has already emotionally detached from you which I agree could be the beginning of the end of your marriage- if you’re not careful. I mean heck, why run the rat race if you’re too busy to enjoy each other? Maybe your wife could quit or work part time and you could switch to a lower stress job and just spend all your time enjoying your wife and daughter?


----------



## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> I think we’re still finding our way back. COVID was tough for us all. My firm has had a million conflict checks for divorce during that time and I know people are struggling.
> 
> For us, it surrounded firing our childcare without consulting me and then the resulting disagreement.There’s more to it but she felt like I wasn’t supportive enough in the first 8 months of having our daughter. She was on maternity leave and I had just started at a new firm and was trying to make sure I was excelling and putting myself and the family in a strong long term position. I couldn’t read her mind then or ever but I’ve kind of figured it out now and get what she needs, so we’re much better. My daughter is 2 1/2 so maybe it was just the timing. But we went to counseling and worked through stuff.
> 
> Sex is getting better kind of, but it’s still not enough and I’m just trying to learn to deal.


There seems to be a combination of factors at play from what you have said. Certainly once a month is not frequent enough, but with the added pressures of a child now you may need to be prepared that it will never be back to what it was - and you need to find a way to deal with that.

I read here about a woman who feels maybe a bit lost right now. She's in a place with no friends, she's tired from working and the baby (whether you help or not, it's a massive change I'm sure) and perhaps she also lost some body confidence and on top of that you are both still working through your marital issues. Do you make her feel wanted and sexy? Does she spend quality time on herself like she used to before she had the baby (if she did)? I read here somewhere the other day some really good connection questions you can ask your partner and perhaps these can help you: Questions


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Hey brother, my advice is once a month is unacceptable for marriage and I also have a 3 year old girl (and many older kids) but my wife doesn’t work. I’m going to assume your wife loves you and all I can say is try and find what works. Hire babysitters, reduce work schedules, downsize your lifestyle- whatever it takes so you can enjoy the marital “bond”... per a lot of comments some are suggesting your wife has already emotionally detached from you which I agree could be the beginning of the end of your marriage- if you’re not careful. I mean heck, why run the rat race if you’re too busy to enjoy each other? Maybe your wife could quit or work part time and you could switch to a lower stress job and just spend all your time enjoying your wife and daughter?


Did you not read his post that said she didn't enjoy being home with the child?
🤔


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> Yea, she claimed that but it was BS. I was there every damn day; I worked my butt off and then came home and immediately did whatever she needed. She just hated being home with our baby, now toddler, during that maternity leave period where she was making far more than her succeeding job in our new city (we moved when we had our baby). So business wise and family wise, it was best. But she wanted to go work so she left early. Then it was about her not having friends in our new city. It’s always something. Drives me nuts.
> 
> It really bothers me that she acts like I wasn’t there for her. Like really really does. I was there; it was just a whole new experience for both of us. Obviously, she carried our daughter, but I’ve been there physically and emotionally through everything. Sorry, but that is a raw spot for me


So it looks like your communication is poor. You are just dismissive because you made money. It's a common problem with new babies. They are life sucking machines that go on for 24 hours a day 7 days a week. She moved for your new successful career while hers languished because she was taking care of the baby and you didn't think there was a problem even when she voiced it.

This is a recipe for resentment on both sides, no sex and divorce.

And if she did stay home and support you and your child for as long as 15 years then during the divorce the chorus of she doesn't deserve any alimony she got to 'not work' for 15 years. Ohhh boy.


----------



## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> She needs more hobbies other than TV and baby but gets upset if I try and suggest them and it’s not her idea. It’s really the weight gain and body change, which I can do absolutely nothing about. It’s not like I’m no longer interested. It’s just about how she feels, I guess.


I’ve been going thru the same exact thing. We have a one year old and our sex life has dwindled. I think a lot of it has to do with just having less time as our focus shifted to raising our child. Not to mention getting less sleep and her body image issues. She gained 20lbs which she hasn’t been able to lose. But to me
she still looks great and it hasn’t affected my attraction level in the slightest. But no matter how much I tell her I think she’s beautiful it doesn’t make a difference. Frequency has picked up a bit to maybe four times a month. But I don’t sense an overwhelming desire or enthusiasm from her when we do. She’s also been on birth control since giving birth and I swear it’s killed her sex drive but she doesn’t think so. As for what I’m going to do? There doesn’t appear to be much I can do. Most other aspects of the relationship are pretty good. Breaking up my marriage and my sons home because I’m not getting enough sex would just seem selfish.


----------



## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

You mentioned you both work. New mothers often crave staying at home with the baby. It’s the utmost natural thing on Earth.
Have you offered to be the sole breadwinner so she can spend enough time all day with the baby and then have some time for you too?

my husband and both work as well. We don’t have a new baby in the home, but if we did, sex would be the first thing to go… unless I was given the option of being a SAHM.
Women have less testosterone and therefore less energy in general than men. She only has so much energy to go around. You can either enjoy her supplying a good amount of income, or you can enjoy HER.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

This is yet another depressing thread about mismatched married partners as far as sexuality goes. (No offense to the OP of course) Its just depressing as divorce seems to be the only real way out.

It seems so very few couples are matched properly in the sex department. Seems to me less than half are? Just my rough guess of course.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> So it looks like your communication is poor. You are just dismissive because you made money. It's a common problem with new babies. They are life sucking machines that go on for 24 hours a day 7 days a week. She moved for your new successful career while hers languished because she was taking care of the baby and you didn't think there was a problem even when she voiced it.
> 
> This is a recipe for resentment on both sides, no sex and divorce.
> 
> And if she did stay home and support you and your child for as long as 15 years then during the divorce the chorus of she doesn't deserve any alimony she got to 'not work' for 15 years. Ohhh boy.


She'd get half no matter what in the state of Florida. Ask me how I know?


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

You say once a month isn't enough for you. What did you say to her when you brought this problem up in the past, and what precisely did she say in response?

You mentioned that you don't want her to get mad at you for posting this, or "rocking the boat" with this subject. As you already know from your own experiences, catering to her isn't going to get you sex. Women are drawn to strength, to someone with strong boundaries they can respect. And *****-whipped men are neither of those things.

The solution I would suggest, is to stop being a doormat.

If you're justifiably upset about something, speak up. If you want something, ask for it. If she refuses to cooperate, then shrug your shoulders and move on with your day. If you were to imagine a two sided gauge with selfish jackass on one side, and generous giver on the other, you need to maintain the line dividing the two.

Don't tolerate anything from her that you wouldn't tolerate from someone you were dating. If she doesn't listen to you and address your concerns when you're upset, then don't do so for her. If she won't have sex with you, then don't give her any kind of affection, either verbal or physical.

In a nutshell, stop treating her better than she treats you. Stop giving her things of value, when she refuses to do so in return. Stop allowing her to walk over the top of you, while you say "yes ma'am". Maintain your self-respect, and your personal boundaries.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

MEA said:


> You mentioned you both work. New mothers often crave staying at home with the baby. It’s the utmost natural thing on Earth.
> Have you offered to be the sole breadwinner so she can spend enough time all day with the baby and then have some time for you too?
> 
> my husband and both work as well. We don’t have a new baby in the home, but if we did, sex would be the first thing to go… unless I was given the option of being a SAHM.
> Women have less testosterone and therefore less energy in general than men. She only has so much energy to go around. You can either enjoy her supplying a good amount of income, or you can enjoy HER.


It's like you didn't read the thread.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

I have been reading your posts GirlDad. There appears to be more to this story than what you are posting. I sense tension in the marriage emanating from her. Once per month and she never initiates? That is not right at your ages.
I would strongly encourage you both to see a qualified therapists. When I say qualified, I mean thoroughly vetted and references checked. There are some real lulu’s out there passing themselves off as therapists. Look on Psychology today’s web site for therapists. They check these people out prior to allowing them to be linked to them.


----------



## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

How was the sex before you got married? If it was infrequent, maybe she just has a low sex drive. 

Either way, once a month is not acceptable. She's your wife, she supposedly loves you and she should want to keep you happy in the bedroom. 

IMO, she has a medical issues that is affecting her sex drive. Or sex is not enjoyable for her. Or there is something else going on in your marriage (resentment, etc) that is causing her to shut down sexually. Would you go to counseling?.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is the idea behind the 180 in a way. You make yourself into a guy some other woman will want to bang and see what kind of response you get.
> 
> Yesterday we were eating lunch at a bar and the young lady who is tending bar is pretty hot. At some point she asks us what we do for jobs and I gotta say mine is pretty cool.
> 
> ...


Yeah my ex used to get pissed big time if another woman even talked to me.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is the idea behind the 180 in a way. You make yourself into a guy some other woman will want to bang and see what kind of response you get.
> 
> Yesterday we were eating lunch at a bar and the young lady who is tending bar is pretty hot. At some point she asks us what we do for jobs and I gotta say mine is pretty cool.
> 
> ...


And now I really want to know what your job is?


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah my ex used to get pissed big time if another woman even talked to me.


"Yeah Babe, they all want a piece of Daddy"


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

33 years old. 

Don’t waste another day. I’m almost 42 and I took waaaaay too long to fix this problem in my marriage. 

Ask her why she feels the way she does. Ask if there are any root problems. Any old traumas you don’t know about. Go to counceling with her. 

I she doesn’t want to fix it and is perfectly ok with living her life this way, THAT IS OK. It is her prerogative. Some people just don’t want sex, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

On the flip side, it’s also not wrong to want sex all the time. I’m the same way as you. In addition, I would assume you also don’t feel loved unless your wife is having sex with you. That is certainly how I feel. 

I know you love her very much, so definitely don’t cheat. Don’t ever put someone through that kind of pain - at the same time, you are slowly dying inside. I know how that feels. It is miserable. Don’t live your life another day like this. If she doesn’t want to work on it, let her know that is ok and you need to divorce because you want to be in a relationship with someone that can love you the way you need. Same goes for her. 


It feels complicated, but it isn’t. It is mostly simple, just hard to do. YOU need to be the one to act though. Low sex drive people will NOT see your pain. They don’t. They feel fine and think their situation is fine so they have no reason to act. There is nothing “broken” as far as they are concerned.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is the idea behind the 180 in a way. You make yourself into a guy some other woman will want to bang and see what kind of response you get.
> 
> Yesterday we were eating lunch at a bar and the young lady who is tending bar is pretty hot. At some point she asks us what we do for jobs and I gotta say mine is pretty cool.
> 
> ...


If I talk to or set up a date with another woman, my wife tends to get competitive, which helps maintain an active and imaginative sex life beyond the routine which we can fall into.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> If I talk to or set up a date with another woman, my wife tends to get competitive, which helps maintain an active and imaginative sex life beyond the routine which we can fall into.


I guess in that situation its a win-win for you no matter what? Sweet for you. We could all be as lucky


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Hopeful cynic has some good talking points, but in my opinion, this simply isn't an "even" issue. This is the one area of a marriage where I personally do not subscribe to both partners owning 50% of the blame. 

The low drive partner owns it. Why? Because sex is a necessary function of life to procreate and to pair bond so that both parents want to stay to raise the children. Society can fight biology all it wants, or you can just go with the truth and prevent a lot of pain and anguish. 

Again, I do not advocate that there is something "wrong" with the low drive partner. There isn't. Living their life in their own way is completely acceptable. What is wrong is the low drive partner pulling the high drive partner down to their level. It is INCREDIBLY SELFISH. There is no other way to put it. The low drive partner gets everything they want while the high drive partner suffers. If the high drive partner wants to find sex elsewhere, the low drive partner says no and locks them in a prison of misery. It's cake eating. Plain and simple. If the low drive partner says "all you want me for is sex" that is called gaslighting. They are trying to fool you to stay in the misery prison. They DO NOT CARE that you are suffering. They are happy. They think you should be too. 

The low drive partner needs to learn that their way of life is acceptable.... but NOT WITH YOU. let them know in a variety of ways that they are more than welcome not having sex the rest of their lives.... by themselves. 

@ccpowerslave can teach you many things. He has a black belt in the art of "constantly keeping your spouse on their toes". This works short term and long term. I suggest getting a black belt in this martial art if you plan on doing it long term. For me? I would be f**king exhausted. I can do it short term. It's a great 2x4 to the face for the low drive partner. It sends out the message, "I'm not f**king around. I want you by my side, but you had best keep up. If you can't maintain my pace, that's fine, but you'll have to leave the race as I increase my speed to catch up to that gal running in front of us."

There is no force. There is no coercion. There is no foul play. There is only truth. The truth that both the low drive and the high drive partners deserve fulfilling lives. 

For me, it is more of a maintenance game. Once my wife stepped up her sex game, I was constantly on the lookout to fulfill any and all of her love languages. This mostly comes in the form of acts of service as the main #1 with well thought out personal, thoughtful gifts as #2. I'm considerably better doing things this way. I'm very introverted and do not like talking to people in real life. I mean, I do.... but not usually. I'm not going to strike up a conversation with the hot waitress. In fact, I've turned down situations like that the maybe 3 times that has happened to me in my life. I'm not interested in talking and doing that. It's exhausting to me. I can sit and think. I can observe. I can go look for those specific things my wife wants. Things that stew on her mind. The more of those things j discover and thus take care of for her, the less that is on her mind and the more mind power she puts towards how much crazy 🐒sex she'll be doling out next time she sees me. 

It then sorta turns into a self-sustaining engine. Like two pistons going back and forth. She LOVES having sex with me and I LOVE doing acts of service for her. It's true. Never thought that would happen. It really isn't a chore to do acts of service for her. It makes me very happy because I can see how happy it makes her. She in return loves sex again the way she did during the first two years of dating because she sees how happy and loved I feel when we have sex. 

First things first, enroll in ccpowwrslave's "I'm not f**king around" 101 course. That's the primer that's needed. You can then either keep that up indefinitely or go my route. He'll, you can do a mixture of both. Regardless, you need to get out of misery and you are the only one that can do that. No one else.


----------



## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

Regarding @LATERILUS79 's advice, Just don't let yourself fall into the trap of covert contracts.... Do the things you do for her that show her you love her because you do in fact love her, not because you expect them to cause her to want to have sex with you. Her wanting to have sex with you should come as a natural, organic, result of her loving and respecting you and wanting to show you that she loves you..


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Good points, and totally agree^^^

I still say a lot of the "low drive" people aren't really low drive....And this comes from either gender..

A friend of mine that recently divorced, often complained to me about how low drive his wife was...He says this, while every time we were together socially this woman was throwing passes at me...I even embarrassingly mentioned it to him once.. I have zero doubt that she wasn't low drive, just wasn't sexually into* him,*,,for whatever reasons...,but some other guy? Sure...

That reason for lack of sex would probably be unfixable, IMO....There are a lot of people that feel that just because someone at one time felt attraction sexually to another individual, then that would be justification for believing it should last forever....for some, it doesn't, unfortunately...

I do agree with @LATERILUS79 ....At that point it becomes something of a trap for the person holding the bag...The other person. the so called "low drive" is controlling the game...The other one has nothing but undesirable options...They are left to either take it or leave it...

I personally couldn't do the coercion or cat and mouse game that would involve,,,,I too would become totally exhausted by that...I also want sex only one way, when the woman is completely and knowingly as much into it as I am...I wouldn't do all the heavy lifting there...id seek another way of dealing with the problem...

I think it's absolutely vital to determine if its a "not into sex period or not into you" scenario...The reason I say this is that the potential outcomes are vastly different..


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Some good recent replies as they all make good points.

My issue with a wife that is LD is I do feel resentful about it and I know that has changed my perspective of her. Lets face it, I am not asking her to run 8 miles with me each day, I am just asking her to have sex. Its not really that hard.

The pushing thing and coercion hasn't worked for me as she can go a long time with no sex so all I then got is her asking me whats wrong and why I am so "cold" recently. 

The fact is some people just do not need or want sex (whether its with the current partner can always be questioned) and the partner that does suffers. Hence why I still believe there are many couples out there who have at least one partner very unhappy and the only two options that exist are either divorce or living with it.

What ccpowerslave is doing is great for him and its working so more power to him. But to me that just seems like too much constant work to keep someone "in the mood". I want my wife to want sex naturally and initiate and want to talk about sex and suggest new things related to sex without ME having to do ALL the work.


----------



## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Some great advice the last couple of pages. I’ll get into some more specifics to see what you guys think:

Won’t do oral anymore - recently told me she had the idea in her head that guys use it to degrade women as though it’s some recent experience she’s had and not remembering the many times she did it when we were dating? Perplexing. Like what a weird ****in thing to think all of a sudden? She did do it once recently and said all this after and then said she thought “well you’re my husband so I shouldn’t think that”. Again weird to think all of sudden. Was there some guy forcing her to do bj’s recently that I don’t know about?? And yeah my hygiene is always good. It’s not like I’m mowing the lawn and then asking to be blown.

Won’t allow me to do oral on her anymore - says it tickles too much or something. Used to have no problem with it when we were dating.

Won’t allow me to touch her down there during foreplay - again says it’s too sensitive and that it “gives her anxiety” and makes her “tense up”. What? Who says that to their husband? Did I mary a nun or something? Me touching her makes her anxious? And again something she used to have no issue with when dating.

Won’t let me touch her breasts in any way - this one has been since I met her. Cool go ahead and forbid fifty percent of your erogenous zone from me. Not allowed to touch, kiss, or anything there. I probably should have bailed over this one in the beginning. My fault for not seeing this red flag.

Doesn’t like any positions except missionary because it’s the only one she gets off in and doesn’t act the least bit enthusiastic about that really either.

Conclusion: sex life is utterly boring and suppressed and I’m gaslighted into being the one with the issues when it’s clearly the other way around. “You only want to use me for sex” and “Why do you keep bringing up my past?” Because you did things in your past with some losers you met at a bar and yet you won’t with your husband who has loved you and been devoted to you from day one. That’s why. And it’s bs any which way you slice it. Chad Thundercock got to drive around the whole city and I’m only allowed to go two blocks.


----------



## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> the only two options that exist are either divorce or living with it.


Well there is a possible third option -- Ethical Non-Monogamy, aka opening up the marriage, but from what I gather it is not an easy solution either!


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

TurnedTurtle said:


> Well there is a possible third option -- Ethical Non-Monogamy, aka opening up the marriage, but from what I gather it is not an easy solution either!


I don't think may HD folks would have a problem with that but I think most (if not all) the LD partners would! I can't see my wife ever agreeing to that.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But to me that just seems like too much constant work to keep someone "in the mood". I want my wife to want sex naturally and initiate and want to talk about sex and suggest new things related to sex without ME having to do ALL the work.


It’s not that much work.

The thing is once you reboot her and get her in the right frame then a lot of it happens without you having to take action.

Is it playing games? Yeah maybe. But think about it when you were going out in the first place you probably were playing all kinds of games. If you split, you’ll be back to playing games but with other women.

The way you’re talking you also should learn the difference between responsive desire and spontaneous desire. Your wife may never be capable of doing what you want.

You need to get over that and instead learn to be satisfied with doing what you want and she goes along with it once you get her going and then maybe sometimes during the act once she is into it stuff can happen. My wife had a list of wont do’s she developed over time similar to yours and those have been chipped away at over the last year.

All the same techniques work on individual sex acts.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Yeah this is all too familiar.

If she wants to be with you then it’s important for her to understand she needs to figure out how to get back to that place and you need to help her by figuring out the difference between you then and now.

Or not... you could also just bounce.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah this is all too familiar.
> 
> If she wants to be with you then it’s important for her to understand she needs to figure out how to get back to that place and you need to help her by figuring out the difference between you then and now.
> 
> Or not... you could also just bounce.


jjj's wife sounds alot like mine. Are we married to sisters???


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> What puzzles me about this HD/LD dynamic, is both spouses fully know that continuing with unrelieved high sexual tension can eventually end the marriage. The LD person, if they cared at all for their spouse, and their marriage would do all in their power to rise to the occasion. They would be talking to their mate, doctors, sex counselors trying to find a path forward.
> 
> The LD person isn't broken. But that doesn't give them the right to break their HD spouse.


That’s the thing though, Rus. The LD spouse DOES NOT know until they are informed. And I don’t mean informing them with words. They need to be informed with actions. The LD spouse will hold on to the bitter hand until they have no choice. Either sh$t or get off the pot. The only way this moves forward to that point is if the HD spouse gets up and does something about it.


----------



## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Again, the choice is yours. You can either accept it or not. As it is now, it is not going to change, at least not for better, (can it get worse?) unless she is motivated to do so. You have announced that D is off the table, she isnt going to change. 
Just do me one favor, dont be like countless other posters, they come here, asking for advice, Everyone (or about everyone) tells them the same thing. The Posters dont like the answer (But I dont want to give an ultimatium! I want her to just wake up one day and want sex with me! alot of sex!) so they talk a lot, get nothing accomplished. Occassionally they come back six months or so later with the same issue, get the same advice, dont like the advice, nothing changes. They leave to maybe come back in a year or so. DONT BE THAT PERSON! 

I get it....tough call, tough change to make. The choice is up to you! You really do HAVE A CHOICE, you have control to change your situation. Good luck to you.


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> Tell me about it. And it’s one of my favorite things in life haha.


 we might be able set you up with someone on here , what are you into men or women 

we have a quite a few singles around and if we can try to brake up a few extra if you need ,lol


----------



## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

_“I don’t understand not wanting to have sex; that’s just crazy since I want it so much. I could literally have sex all day, multiple times. I’m really trying to be a good husband and find an equilibrium._”

I find it interesting that whenever there is sexual incompatibility as far as frequency, it is always the person with the lower libido who is viewed as the “problem.”
Then solutions are offered in attempts to create a higher libido im the low-libido partner.

While that is helpful, there is something to be said about meeting your partner halfway. Perhaps she is just as frustrated with your constant pressure for sex as you are with her constant rejection and interest in other activities.

Here are a few food items known help lower sexual libido (I hope this helps!):

soy, liquorice, chasteberry, hops and wild lettuce

There are many more herbs and foods that can help lower libido - a quick Internet search will expand the list.

Again, she may see your high libido as just as much of an issue as you see her low libido.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> My issue with a wife that is LD is I do feel resentful about it and I know that has changed my perspective of her. Lets face it, I am not asking her to run 8 miles with me each day, I am just asking her to have sex. Its not really that hard.


Mine is the LIE. Just tell me you don't want to have sex with me ever again and let's wrap it up.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> In your current situation, the only path you have going forward is what ccpowerslave does. You need to drastically increase your SMV. She will take notice.


I wouldn’t even bother here. If she’s already making threats to take you for every penny you have in court she’s done done.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I wouldn’t even bother here. If she’s already making threats to take you for every penny you have in court she’s done done.


Fair point, cc. 

Could be a very bad case of LDFY (Low drive for you). That's why I think it's important for him to have "the talk" with her again with a VAR on him. Get her to say it again out loud. Get a recording of it and get it to a family court lawyer to see his options. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that doesn't sway judges when they hear one spouse threaten the other to withhold children.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I understand this feeling of being duped. It sucks. It really, really sucks. Just my personality. So many people have screwed me over in my life that I started to pride myself on NOT getting duped. I really beat the crap out of myself when I miss something and allow someone to get the drop on me. Pisses me off to no end.
> 
> So, two things you can look into that helped my wife.
> 
> ...


So I appreciate what you are saying and you and I have exhanged comments before about it so I am sure you know what I am about to say is not a challenge or meant to be an ass in asking.

But if the "intimidation aspect" (my words and maybe too harsh?) are whats needed to keep your wife participating and in line with the sex frequency, is the sex really all that good? Seems like she could develop just the idea of going along for the ride (pun intended) and not really being all that into it and just thinking "OK I'll do this just to keep him happy and keep him from leaving".


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Sorry to say this is it, though she didn't necessarily intend to "dupe you". She likely thinks she wants marriage but doesn't know herself well enough to know she isn't capable of having that. She likes the thrill of a new relationship, and surely loves sex with a new flame but gets bored after "awhile". She doesn't know herself well enough to know she isn't ltr capable. The "bunch of guys" she went through after the divorce discerned that part of her, so had fun and then left before the relationship staled. And they sure weren't going to marry her knowing the history.
> 
> It is too bad you have a child, but "staying for the kids" doesn't help anyone, least of all the child.
> 
> So, that is where you are. What you do with it is in your court. I think you know that stale bread doesn't improve with age, it eventually goes totally rotten. And hanging around while you make some more money just increases size of her attorney's bank account.


...and all of what you said Rus is why if I ever do leave my wife, I would NOT get married again!!!


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Fair point, cc.
> 
> Could be a very bad case of LDFY (Low drive for you). That's why I think it's important for him to have "the talk" with her again with a VAR on him. Get her to say it again out loud. Get a recording of it and get it to a family court lawyer to see his options. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that doesn't sway judges when they hear one spouse threaten the other to withhold children.


I don't think most courts care or have time to listen to a conversation recorded on a VAR. The attorney will be only too happy to listen and charge him for the hours spent listening, but it is not going to change anything. The people I know who divorced, had a basic set of forms that the attorney(s) filled out and filed with the court. Kind of a cookie cutter approach. Negotiation was all that happened, the court didn't care what the circumstances were.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> ...and all of what you said Rus is why if I ever do leave my wife, I would NOT get married again!!!


I can understand that. Once burned twice shy. But, never say never. I have known people where their *fourth* try resulted in a match made in heaven. They finally figured out how to pick, and that a bar wasn't the best place to find a future mate.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

It will be twice burned, three times shy for me. I appreciate what you say but I don't think there will ever be a Mrs. FloridaGuy #3.

A GF would be far easier to break up with should the need ever arise. And beside, both of my wives have had "Wedding Cakeitis" so the next one will never have cake just to prevent it from happening.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So I appreciate what you are saying and you and I have exhanged comments before about it so I am sure you know what I am about to say is not a challenge or meant to be an ass in asking.
> 
> But if the "intimidation aspect" (my words and maybe too harsh?) are whats needed to keep your wife participating and in line with the sex frequency, is the sex really all that good? Seems like she could develop just the idea of going along for the ride (pun intended) and not really being all that into it and just thinking "OK I'll do this just to keep him happy and keep him from leaving".


Good question! 

I think this brings up the matter of "unconditional love". I've come to the conclusion over the past 5 years that it simply does not exist - with exception to young, dependent children. 

Yes, the frequency and quality of my sex life is GOOD. Every single one of us knows when our spouse wants to be there. We know when it is being faked. 

The underlying theme here are the conditions of love. Call them intimidation aspects. Doesn't matter. It really doesn't bother me what word is used. The fact of the matter is that all of us have conditions for love. 

Let me give an example for when the condition is NOT sex: I came up with a super awesome vacation for my wife and I for our 10th anniversary 4 years ago. I planned everything. Surprised her on the day we were leaving and just said to pack a bag. I'll take care of the rest. This is definitely a part of her love language. This was also during the time of our dead bedroom. I received slightly above average sex 4 days in a row. That is pretty spectacular considering we were averaging 2-4 times a month. 
Anxiety soon ravaged me the moment we got home. I straight up blew my "mental strength" load on that trip. I was desperately trying to figure out what is the next thing I could do for her. What grand gesture would it take for her to get back into bed and give me slightly above average sex again? It was nauseating, then I got depressed. 

So yeah, the "pressure to perform" is a two way street. LD folks are going to complain all day that they feel pressured to have sex. Great. I feel pressured to come up with grand gestures of my love. 

It's all too transactional. 

This is why I'm saying you get yourself to a point of not caring. You can call it an ultimatum. You can call it intimidation. Doesn't matter. I'll call it what I think it is: INDIFFERENCE

Simply things:

"Spouse, this is the path I'm walking on. I want you on my path. I love you dearly. I think you are great just the way you are. If you want to stay LD, I support you and understand you - but not as my spouse. If you want me, if you truly want me, then hard work is required. You need to be on my path. It is completely ok with me if you don't want to walk on my path. I hold no grudge. No animosity. We can go our separate ways and find someone who romantically loves us for who we are."

To me, that is what it comes down to. Doesn't sound like an ultimatum for me. Sounds like I'm giving my spouse a choice, not a form of punishment. If my wife doesn't want to walk my path, then she doesn't truly love me and that is OK. I wish I would have taught myself this decades ago. 

On the flipside, this same conditional love goes for me as well. If I neglect my wife's love needs, then I expect her to leave me. I have to decide if I truly "Want" my wife. In my case, I absolutely do, so now I'm happy to do the things for her that make her feel loved. It makes me feel good to do things for her. I enjoy doing acts of service for her. As such, my wife WANTS me. She is happy to have sex with me and she enjoys it.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The fact that you are focused on sex, rather than your wife's revulsion towards you, says much about your understanding of the situation...which is next to nothing.

I am not trying to belittle you by saying that, but your relationship is borderline (or completely) broken.

The easiest way to explain this is that prostitutes often don't kiss their johns for a reason; they don't want to be passionate with them. They want it done and over with.

Your wife's response to you is similar to disgust. 

Let that sink in for a moment.

Disgust. 

It has a pretty nasty ring to it.

Disgust often comes about from years and layers of resentment. She sounds like she has already played out leaving you in her head. 

Again, wrap your mind around that.

And you are worried about sex?

That said, all is not lost. My marriage was at that point in 2014, when I came to this site. We are now happy, with a regular sex life that has a wide menu of activities. 

But...to get to that point, we went through a lot. 

First, I had to grow up. I drank too much, and invested in her far too little.

After that, I had to reassess what she actually wanted in a relationship, and do it...consistently. This went on for a few months, with her more than willing to take, while being very stingy in giving. 

Then, after 6 months of her still dragging her feet, I stopped pushing her, and started withdrawing by lowering the thermostat. In other words, I invested into the relationship exactly as much as she was, which was very little. I started preparing for divorce, and doing my own thing without consulting her.

This has the effect of pulling her towards me rather than pushing. Had she not responded to that, we would be divorced today. 

But you have to do all three steps in order for it to work, eg. if you withdraw from someone who is repulsed by you, they will feel relief rather than need.

If you can't get yourself to see past the sex, then you had best prepare for divorce, because that is your current trajectory, and every time she has sex with you right now, it adds another brick to the proverbial wall she has built between you.

So you have some choices to make.


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Sorry to say this is it, though she didn't necessarily intend to "dupe you”



Rus! I’m glad you said this!!!

Let me know if this analogy rings true:

I never meant to cheat. It just sorta happened. 



Either way, it still sucks, right? Either way, there is a spouse that was betrayed and lied too…. Whether they truly meant to hurt you or not. As such, if adult decisions can be made, then that person can accept adult consequences. 

Cheaters are not given quarter. No passes. No acceptable reasons for what they did. They may be forgiven, but that is the choice of the BS. 

I was lied to for 20 years. My wife “thinks” she may have told that lie to keep from scaring me away. I don’t think she “thinks”. I think she “knows”. This is something that my wife and I are still working on in our talks with each other. Our relationship is better than it ever has been before. I love her to death. We’ve been connecting so well. 

Doesn’t change the fact that I was duped by a 21 year old adult woman who had no intention of hurting me, but hurt me she did for well over a decade.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m a woman and I see no benefit to it either. I will never marry again.


Hey torn,

We should connect and never be married together


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Hey torn,
> 
> We should connect and never be married together


I’m game. 😉👊


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m game. 😉👊


@FloridaGuy1. You may think this means you can have a date with @Torninhalf. 

It's not. She is going to wink at you and then punch you in the face. Pay close attention to the emojis. It's all there. 😆


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> @FloridaGuy1. You may think this means you can have a date with @Torninhalf.
> 
> It's not. She is going to wink at you and then punch you in the face. Pay close attention to the emojis. It's all there. 😆


Hey, hey now. You would make a terrible wingman @LATERILUS79.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> My wife complains about things I can't control...politics, world issues, etc. I have no idea how to turn that around??? I wished she complained about other things I could control.


Perhaps the problem is your listening.

If the only thing you can think about in her complaints are things external to your relationship, you are not listening...or watching.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Perhaps the problem is your listening.
> 
> If the only thing you can think about in her complaints are things external to your relationship, you are not listening...or watching.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Oh I am doing both. Like I just posted in another thread, my wife says she enjoys our sex life and "likes" it and says she has no complaints about it. Its just her idea of like is a few times a month of vanilla sex.

She spend more time focusing on conspiracy theoiries than our sex life.

I'll add she has nothing really to complain about. She doesn't work, we are debt free, we are upper middle class, we go to Europe a few times a year (before the pandemic) etc. I ask her what I could do to make her life better and how we can improve our marriage yet she says everything is fine. I think we are just mismatched.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Heat of the moment? Doesn't matter. An adult that cannot control their emotions and say stupid things can count on winning stupid prizes. What she said is a serious threat.
> 
> Look at it this way: What if a man and woman are in a heated argument and the man is just sooooo pissed that he decides to hit the woman. Happened in the heat of the moment. Should we hold it against him? The obvious answer is yes.
> 
> So yeah, you should hold this against your wife for saying a serious threat.


Words aren't violence, despite what some from the younger generation would have you believe.

Neither is okay, but one is several steps above the other on the escalation ladder. 

That said, if the OP does end up divorced, he needs to expect her threats to become reality. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Oh I am doing both. Like I just posted in another thread, my wife says she enjoys our sex life and "likes" it and says she has no complaints about it. Its just her idea of like is a few times a month of vanilla sex.
> 
> She spend more time focusing on conspiracy theoiries than our sex life.


Does your wife ask you not to kiss her during sex or it will kill her O's? If so, we can make true comparisons. 

Otherwise, apples and oranges. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Does your wife ask you not to kiss her during sex or it will kill her O's? If so, we can make true comparisons.
> 
> Otherwise, apples and oranges.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


She has never asked that and I am not following your line of thinking


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> Words aren't violence, despite what some from the younger generation would have you believe.
> 
> Neither is okay, but one is several steps above the other on the escalation ladder.
> 
> ...



Trust me, I do NOT subscribe to the modern definition of violence. Today’s younger generation is a joke. 

My analogy is the severity. Someone threatening to beat me up I can handle in the heat of the moment. I would not be able to handle a threat of removing my child from my life. Those words have consequences.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But if the "intimidation aspect" (my words and maybe too harsh?) are whats needed to keep your wife participating and in line with the sex frequency, is the sex really all that good? Seems like she could develop just the idea of going along for the ride (pun intended) and not really being all that into it and just thinking "OK I'll do this just to keep him happy and keep him from leaving".


This is what my wife did, to keep me there and the family together. I guess she thought she owned it to our marriage. When it wasn't necessary any more, she dropped our sex relationship like a hot potato. Kids grown up, family was gone. I wasn't needed any more, apart from the financial aspect. But she knew she would get my money any way. But I don't know if any of this is due to her mental issues. I guess I will never know.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Oh I am doing both. Like I just posted in another thread, my wife says she enjoys our sex life and "likes" it and says she has no complaints about it. Its just her idea of like is a few times a month of vanilla sex.


We didn't have vanilla sex. It was scheduled yes, but it was good. She even told me she loved me after sex. Look what happened to me. Believe in the action, not the words.


----------



## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

ccpowerslave said:


> Read “The Dead Bedroom Fix” by @dadstartingover and then “Married Man’s Sex Life Primer” by Athol Kay. Start your 180.


The book: *The Dead Bedroom Fix*


----------



## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> We didn't have vanilla sex. It was scheduled yes, but it was good. She even told me she loved me after sex. Look what happened to me. Believe in the action, not the words.


can you give me a quick rundown of what happened to you or point me to your thread? Did she cheat or did you just get divorced?


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

MEA said:


> _“I don’t understand not wanting to have sex; that’s just crazy since I want it so much. I could literally have sex all day, multiple times. I’m really trying to be a good husband and find an equilibrium._”
> 
> I find it interesting that whenever there is sexual incompatibility as far as frequency, it is always the person with the lower libido who is viewed as the “problem.”
> Then solutions are offered in attempts to create a higher libido im the low-libido partner.
> ...


Once a month or less is not "meeting halfway" - not even close. Less than 10 times per year is considered technically sexless.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> You have your answer from the texts. You are in same boat as her first hubby. She isnt cutout for marriage. And the first man who tickles her fancy she will be full on wanton with.
> 
> I dont think MC is going to fix anything. She already told you it is her way or hiway so live with it or she going ef u over in divorce. I would have filed when she said that. Waiting just builds more finances for her attorney to take


This. If she said she felt a spark then talks so much crap about him, what does she think / say about you?


----------



## CupCake522 (Mar 24, 2013)

GirlDad33SBP said:


> I really enjoy sex. Always have. I love pleasuring my wife and before her, all my previous flings/relationships. I have a very high sex drive; my wife does not - especially after our daughter.
> 
> I’ve read about everything I can and I just need to talk it out with someone not in my immediate circle. Maybe writing this will help.
> 
> ...


Have you both tried married counseling it may help you resolve your concerns and issues ?


----------



## purplewish5 (May 7, 2020)

Honestly, my hubby and I have gone through the same thing. We had a lot of backstory as well, but ultimately we had different needs and had to compromise. We finally agreed to a “every 3 day” schedule. It was less than he wanted but more than I wanted but we make it work. And of course, the closer we are emotionally the better it is. I’ve even gone “off schedule” before if we’d had a great day.  it seems pedantic putting sex on a schedule but we no longer argue about the frequency and it takes a lot of the pressure off. You might try bringing it up to your wife? Oh, I got three days from a marriage therapist who said men “need” it about every 72 hours. (I use need loosely)


----------



## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

It ain’t easy for sure. You have to plan a date night once a week or something without (sorry about this piece) WITHOUT expecting to have sex. Talk, just be together, something easy whatever that it. But no pressure. It’s not easy having a baby and working full time and dealing with all the crap the last year threw at us. Just give it time. You all have a lot going on. 
just get comfortable pleasuring yourself to take the load off 😉


----------



## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> My issue with a wife that is LD is I do feel resentful about it and I know that has changed my perspective of her. Lets face it, I am not asking her to run 8 miles with me each day, I am just asking her to have sex. Its not really that hard.


This shows you don’t understand a woman’s sex drive. It’s not just a physical act for us. It’s so much more than that and requires the heart and mind to be satisfying, so if we’re not into it, and our partner doesn’t seem to care, it becomes a soul-sucking, hurtful act. You start to feel like a human masturbatory aid.


----------



## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

I see a lot of disturbing HD comments here and just want to add mine as a LD person. My first husband was HD. Our marriage ended quickly for other reasons but I knew if our marriage continued, it would eventually become a big problem for us. He always wanted sex, and I did my best to rise to the occasion when I could, but it was so constant and incessant, I felt like I never was given the chance to desire and initiate and enjoy. It was exhausting and soul sucking. I began to feel like a sex doll to him rather than a human. Sometimes I cried after sex. I felt so empty. And my pleasure and feelings were set aside.

My current husband is much more compatible with me. He’s not interested if I’m not into it. He is very attuned to my emotions, and I feel so much more loved and honored and safe…and sexual with him. I don’t know if y’all aren’t sexually compatible or if you just haven’t reached an empathetic understanding of each other in order to find a solution.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> II'm confused why there is such a huge thread jack on the OP's thread.


    

Guilty as charged! 

I was about to say, "what the hell are you talking about, Livvie?" Then I took a quick glance at the OP name. Yeah, that was embarrassing. I completely forgot who started the thread. I thought it was jjj858!


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Skookaroo said:


> I see a lot of disturbing HD comments here and just want to add mine as a LD person. My first husband was HD. Our marriage ended quickly for other reasons but I knew if our marriage continued, it would eventually become a big problem for us. He always wanted sex, and I did my best to rise to the occasion when I could, but it was so constant and incessant, I felt like I never was given the chance to desire and initiate and enjoy. It was exhausting and soul sucking. I began to feel like a sex doll to him rather than a human. Sometimes I cried after sex. I felt so empty. And my pleasure and feelings were set aside.
> 
> My current husband is much more compatible with me. He’s not interested if I’m not into it. He is very attuned to my emotions, and I feel so much more loved and honored and safe…and sexual with him. I don’t know if y’all aren’t sexually compatible or if you just haven’t reached an empathetic understanding of each other in order to find a solution.


Sooooo..... it sounds like you solved the problem. You removed yourself from your previous husband and found someone you are much more compatible with. Great job! I commend anyone who has the courage to do this. It's much easier said than done, but it must be done to stop the misery. Pretty much all the advice given here is the same. Get out of the incompatible situation.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There was a very long threadjack here. I moved the posts to @*jjj858's* thread. If I missed anything let me know and I'll move that too.

Please stick with posting to the OP on this thread.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MEA said:


> _“I don’t understand not wanting to have sex; that’s just crazy since I want it so much. I could literally have sex all day, multiple times. I’m really trying to be a good husband and find an equilibrium._”
> 
> I find it interesting that whenever there is sexual incompatibility as far as frequency, it is always the person with the lower libido who is viewed as the “problem.”
> Then solutions are offered in attempts to create a higher libido im the low-libido partner.
> ...


Where is halfway if the "LD" is actually happy with "No Drive"? After reading bunches of threads in my short time here, it is amazing to me that there are people fine with being essentially celibate in a marriage, and think it ethical to force their partner to live celibate too. The one who wants to be celibate can be that alone! Why did they marry? Why do they stay married? For the kids? As some kind of passive aggressive desire to punish their partner?

In most marriages the male is going to naturally be the higher drive, just the nature of biology. My wife EXPECTS and responds to my drive. If it were otherwise she would want to know what is wrong, am I no longer attracted to her? She often laughs when I start romancing her saying "there's the male animal!". Every woman on the planet realizes that a man usually has a higher drive, so if that is an issue for them why would they marry in the first place?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Where is halfway if the "LD" is actually happy with "No Drive"? After reading bunches of threads in my short time here, it is amazing to me that there are people fine with being essentially celibate in a marriage, and think it ethical to force their partner to live celibate too. The one who wants to be celibate can be that alone! Why did they marry? Why do they stay married? For the kids? As some kind of passive aggressive desire to punish their partner?
> 
> In most marriages the male is going to naturally be the higher drive, just the nature of biology. My wife EXPECTS and responds to my drive. If it were otherwise she would want to know what is wrong, am I no longer attracted to her? Every woman on the planet realizes that a man usually has a higher drive, so if that is an issue for them why would they marry in the first place?


If you want to see something really sad check out posts from HD women with a LD male partner. Statistically this is ~20%. Since most people believe men should be HD and after sex constantly it’s particularly bad for them.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Skookaroo said:


> This shows you don’t understand a woman’s sex drive. It’s not just a physical act for us. It’s so much more than that and requires the heart and mind to be satisfying, so if we’re not into it, and our partner doesn’t seem to care, it becomes a soul-sucking, hurtful act. You start to feel like a human masturbatory aid.


But thats just it. You are obviously LD so thats how you view it. Which is totally OK. But from what I read in the threads where guys have indicated their wives enjoy it for the physical pleasure, it is not presented in the way you indicate.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

There is also the axis of responsive vs spontaneous desire. 

Compared to me my wife is very LD and if you went by her spontaneous desire alone where she initiated or does her best version of initiating this month she came to bed ready to go and initiate on me 4 times out of the 21 times we have had sex this month (so far).

Out of those encounters 7/16 times were PIV where she wanted to have an orgasm. 

Usually she isn’t committed to it right out of the gate but once we have been going for a few minutes she will decide she wants to go for it. Half the time that never happens and sometimes she knows she is not interested in trying to have an orgasm at all.

One of the times she initiated 1/4 she was thinking about initiating all day and she still didn’t try to have an orgasm.

So if I was a guy who waited around until she felt like it by herself instead of trying to get her to respond to me it would be a sad state of affairs.

I consider the level we’re at adequate but I could go 2x our current amount and it would be better for me and if you left it up to what she’d start naturally it would be 1/5 our current amount.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Skookaroo said:


> This shows you don’t understand a woman’s sex drive. It’s not just a physical act for us. It’s so much more than that and requires the heart and mind to be satisfying, so if we’re not into it, and our partner doesn’t seem to care, it becomes a soul-sucking, hurtful act. You start to feel like a human masturbatory aid.


Did you have any children? My wife was in your position (but it's a long story), but instead of divorcing me, she gave me pity sex not to split the family up. She told me when she decided to stop sex completely when I wasn't needed anymore (children grown up).


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Skookaroo said:


> This shows you don’t understand a woman’s sex drive. It’s not just a physical act for us. It’s so much more than that and requires the heart and mind to be satisfying, so if we’re not into it, and our partner doesn’t seem to care, it becomes a soul-sucking, hurtful act. You start to feel like a human masturbatory aid.


Both genders need to understand and accomodate the others drive in a marriage. It isnt a oneway street forcing the one to dance the tune played by the othet IF the marriage wanted to be happy one.


----------



## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Where is halfway if the "LD" is actually happy with "No Drive"? After reading bunches of threads in my short time here, it is amazing to me that there are people fine with being essentially celibate in a marriage, and think it ethical to force their partner to live celibate too. The one who wants to be celibate can be that alone! Why did they marry? Why do they stay married? For the kids? As some kind of passive aggressive desire to punish their partner?
> 
> In most marriages the male is going to naturally be the higher drive, just the nature of biology. My wife EXPECTS and responds to my drive. If it were otherwise she would want to know what is wrong, am I no longer attracted to her? She often laughs when I start romancing her saying "there's the male animal!". Every woman on the planet realizes that a man usually has a higher drive, so if that is an issue for them why would they marry in the first place?


Yes, men have a naturally higher drive. Yes, women (normal women) accept and respect that.
The OP states that he would like to do it 5 or more times per day. That is abnormally high and unreasonable / unrealistic unless we are talking about 19 year olds on their honeymoon… but certainly not 5+ times a day for the rest of their lives.
If the OP is over the age of 30 and still wants sex from his wife 5+ times per day, then he is being unreasonable and yes, he should meet her halfway. 5+ times per day, every day would wear out any woman. 
Maybe the OP shouldn’t be married and should have multiple GFs who can collaborate to meet his needs. I would suspect hormone supplements are behind such an insanely high sex drive.


----------



## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

DTO said:


> Once a month or less is not "meeting halfway" - not even close. Less than 10 times per year is considered technically sexless.


I never said the wife shouldn’t try harder. But it’s stupid to always put the onus COMPLETELY on the LD partner… which is what I see here 100% of the time.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

MEA said:


> The OP states that he would like to do it 5 or more times per day. That is abnormally high and unreasonable


I missed that part in his OP. I did catch this part:



GirlDad33SBP said:


> I don’t want a sexless marriage, and once a month isn’t enough for me honestly.


Once a month or less is the clinical definition of a dead bedroom. OP is in a dead bedroom. It’s deader than parachute pants.

2-3x that amount in my opinion is still effectively dead.

If the OP did want 5x a day there is nothing wrong with that, it’s his drive. His wife might not be compatible with that.

As for putting it on the LD there is an obvious reason, they’re the gatekeeper of all the activity. 

So while getting what the HD wants from the LD likely requires more work from them (the HD), at least visible work, the person who has to make the obvious change is the LD. In a dead bedroom like the OP’s case they need to go from not having sex to having it. The LD ultimately controls whether it happens.

In this case based on the OP’s first post he is barking up the wrong tree and if he wants to even try and repair things he needs to change his approach.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> There is also the axis of responsive vs spontaneous desire.
> 
> Compared to me my wife is very LD and if you went by her spontaneous desire alone where she initiated or does her best version of initiating this month she came to bed ready to go and initiate on me 4 times out of the 21 times we have had sex this month (so far).
> 
> ...


Wait…I’m confused. She has sex but decides she doesn’t want an orgasm? Can you explain?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Wait…I’m confused. She has sex but decides she doesn’t want an orgasm? Can you explain?


Nope can’t explain it. There are other women here who claim the same thing, they don’t always want to (or think it’s worth the effort to) have an orgasm.

For me it’s weird but then again I’m a man so having an orgasm is functional and kind of part of the whole deal.

FWIW I am fine with it. If she doesn’t want PIV she has no trouble saying so and giving me a BJ instead. If she wants to have an orgasm she can, she just doesn’t always want to 🤷‍♂️


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Wait…I’m confused. She has sex but decides she doesn’t want an orgasm? Can you explain?


I think it's because they are not aroused enough or they think it would take too much work to get there that evening or whatever... I think she is doing it for him, to get him off her back...


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Nope can’t explain it. There are other women here who claim the same thing, they don’t always want to (or think it’s worth the effort to) have an orgasm.
> 
> For me it’s weird but then again I’m a man so having an orgasm is functional and kind of part of the whole deal.


Worth the effort? I mean…uhhh…like isn’t that the whole point? That’s like baking the cake but not having any. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Worth the effort? I mean…uhhh…like isn’t that the whole point? That’s like baking the cake but not having any. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I think it could be that 7-13 minute sweet spot thing. If she thinks it will take her say 30 minutes she’s like “Nah not worth it.” Sometimes it will be worth it though.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I think it's because they are not aroused enough or they think it would take too much work to get there that evening or whatever... I think she is doing it for him, to get him off her back...


Maybe however I don’t ever ask her for sex anymore and haven’t in a while. That is one sure fire way to not get it, at least with her.

She understands I am pretty much DTF 24/7 and what she does about that is up to her.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Worth the effort? I mean…uhhh…like isn’t that the whole point? That’s like baking the cake but not having any. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I take you've never been in a relationship with opposite sex drives?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Maybe however I don’t ever ask her for sex anymore and haven’t in a while. That is one sure fire way to not get it, at least with her.
> 
> She understands I am pretty much DTF 24/7 and what she does about that is up to her.


I get it... if I didn't ask, I would never get it either. I'm glad your wife is "accommodating" you. It's a sign of a good and caring spouse.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think it could be that 7-13 minute sweet spot thing. If she thinks it will take her say 30 minutes she’s like “Nah not worth it.” Sometimes it will be worth it though.


Why would it take 30 minutes? I mean y’all have been together for quite awhile. Surly you know how to make her orgasm way quicker than that.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I take you've never been in a relationship with opposite sex drives?


I’ve been in one very long relationship and he had a higher drive than me. Given that if it took him 30 minutes to make me orgasm something was terribly wrong.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I get it... if I didn't ask, I would never get it either. I'm glad your wife is "accommodating" you. It's a sign of a good and caring spouse.


I stopped getting rejected when I stopped initiating into a brick wall. For example yesterday she says, “I don’t feel well and I’m tired.” Ok fine let’s go to bed and sleep.

In years past I would have tried anyway and gotten rejected, felt bad about it, and then been actively annoying.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Why would it take 30 minutes? I mean y’all have been together for quite awhile. Surly you know how to make her orgasm way quicker than that.


I dunno. I mean sometimes it takes me 20 minutes but sometimes I can go in 5 seconds.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I dunno. I mean sometimes it takes me 20 minutes but sometimes I can go in 5 seconds.


So I’m getting the feeling that she is just allowing you to use her body to get off. That she doesn’t derive any pleasure from it…am I reading this wrong?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been in one very long relationship and he had a higher drive than me. Given that if it took him 30 minutes to make me orgasm something was terribly wrong.


To answer your technique question sure. If we do PIV and I go slow and she uses a vibrator she can normally go in 2 minutes or so. But she doesn’t always want to do that. Sometimes she will want to be on top with no hands or toys and that can take her from say 5 minutes to 30 minutes.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MEA said:


> Yes, men have a naturally higher drive. Yes, women (normal women) accept and respect that.
> The OP states that he would like to do it 5 or more times per day. That is abnormally high and unreasonable / unrealistic unless we are talking about 19 year olds on their honeymoon… but certainly not 5+ times a day for the rest of their lives.
> If the OP is over the age of 30 and still wants sex from his wife 5+ times per day, then he is being unreasonable and yes, he should meet her halfway. 5+ times per day, every day would wear out any woman.
> Maybe the OP shouldn’t be married and should have multiple GFs who can collaborate to meet his needs. I would suspect hormone supplements are behind such an insanely high sex drive.


How wud it be if OPs wife told him "Look darling, I just cant keep up the pace you want. Lets go together to each of our doctors, get some tests to see if there is a medical cause for our missmatch. In meantime, I think I can keep up with 5 a week. What do you think darling?" As she kisses him passionately


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> So I’m getting the feeling that she is just allowing you to use her body to get off. That she doesn’t derive any pleasure from it…am I reading this wrong?


I dunno. It might be better to ask one of the women on here who feel the same about PIV. I can say as a dude I enjoy the part before the orgasm and also the orgasm. It’s kind of an alien idea to me not to finish but it happens occasionally especially if I have drank too much and it’s the same reason “not worth it”.

Would I say in those cases if my wife had one I felt bad because she used my body to get off? Hell no.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I dunno. It might be better to ask one of the women on here who feel the same about PIV. I can say as a dude I enjoy the part before the orgasm and also the orgasm. It’s kind of an alien idea to me not to finish but it happens occasionally especially if I have drank too much and it’s the same reason “not worth it”.
> 
> Would I say in those cases if my wife had one I felt bad because she used my body to get off? Hell no.


Oh no I get that sometimes it just doesn’t happen but you said she goes into having sex without the desire to orgasm. I don’t understand that part. Does she not get aroused? I’m genuinely curious. I know once I get started I would like a spectacular ending. Have there been times Ive had sex knowing it was more for his benefit than mine? Sure but as a regular habit that would be a hard no.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Oh no I get that sometimes it just doesn’t happen but you said she goes into having sex without the desire to orgasm. I don’t understand that part. Does she not get aroused? I’m genuinely curious. I know once I get started I would like a spectacular ending. Have there been times Ive had sex knowing it was more for his benefit than mine? Sure but as a regular habit that would be a hard no.


I know there have been times when my wife's primary goal was to get me off without desiring to get off herself. I can't say that her thought process was, "I don't want an orgasm", but it wasn't her goal for sex at that time. Now I'm still trying to achieve that and in some of those times it still just happens, but she really didn't care either way. I think it is a little strange to not "want" an orgasm, but she has told me on many occasions that it isn't her goal while having sex.


----------



## MEA (Jul 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> How wud it be if OPs wife told him "Look darling, I just cant keep up the pace you want. Lets go together to each of our doctors, get some tests to see if there is a medical cause for our missmatch. In meantime, I think I can keep up with 5 a week. What do you think darling?" As she kisses him passionately


I’m not sure because I’m not in OP’s marriage. I have discovered that most people are in a marriage that I’m glad to not be in, and tell my H regularly how lucky I am and how much I appreciate the gift of marriage God led us into together.
I suppose if I were married to someone who badgered me for more sex than I could handle, and tried to convince me I’m the problem, to the point where I felt the need to negotiate sex and “put out” on a schedule regardless of my feelings, then I would probably feel dirty and used. I would feel as if my husband doesn’t value our relationship and friendship and would probably be happier married to a hooker.
That’s just me though.
I know there are millions of men in this world who are probably relieved to not be married to me… it can be quite an effort to treat a woman as a human being instead of a compliant object for some.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I know there have been times when my wife's primary goal was to get me off without desiring to get off herself. I can't say that her thought process was, "I don't want and orgasm", but it wasn't her goal for sex at that time. Now I'm still trying to achieve that and in some of those times it still just happens, but she really didn't care either way. I think it is a little strange to not "want" an orgasm, but she has told me on many occasions that it isn't her goal while having sex.


Then her goal is just to get you off. I can understand that once in a while but certainly not half the time. That’s duty sex. 😳


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> If you want to see something really sad check out posts from HD women with a LD male partner. Statistically this is ~20%. Since most people believe men should be HD and after sex constantly it’s particularly bad for them.


It is, isn’t it? Like, I get very sympathetic for men that deal with LD women, but we are used to it as a society. But the reverse? It’s just crazy to me. First of all, there are less HD women out there then men. Secondly, there are so many good HD men out there that an HD woman can have a fulfilling life with.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Oh no I get that sometimes it just doesn’t happen but you said she goes into having sex without the desire to orgasm. I don’t understand that part. Does she not get aroused? I’m genuinely curious. I know once I get started I would like a spectacular ending. Have there been times Ive had sex knowing it was more for his benefit than mine? Sure but as a regular habit that would be a hard no.


I think both?

Sometimes I think she’ll go into it with no intention to orgasm and then get aroused and go for it. Generally I can tell because she’ll tell me to grab the wedge pillow or something where I can get the exact angle I want. 

I’d have to dig through my stats to get a count of times with a wedge where she had an orgasm but I’m guessing it’s less than the 50% overall figure for July.

So in July she went for the wedge 2x and 0x orgasms for her. One of the two times she initiated but suggested the wedge anyway.

Edit. Interesting. June 0 wedge, May 2x wedge 2x orgasms for her.

This is why I journal. Now I need to go back and look at all of it because my gut feeling might be wrong.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I think it's because they are not aroused enough or they think it would take too much work to get there that evening or whatever... I think she is doing it for him, to get him off her back...


...or get him off her front too? Sorry I couldn't resist


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think both?
> 
> Sometimes I think she’ll go into it with no intention to orgasm and then get aroused and go for it. Generally I can tell because she’ll tell me to grab the wedge pillow or something where I can get the exact angle I want.
> 
> ...


You crack me up…let me check my notes. 😂 I guess I’m having a hard time working this out in my mind. Sounds like she is simply having sex to please you. I thought that was considered duty sex round these parts. I know my STBXH would have felt horrible if he didn’t make me orgasm half or more of our encounters.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> I stopped getting rejected when I stopped initiating into a brick wall. For example yesterday she says, “I don’t feel well and I’m tired.” Ok fine let’s go to bed and sleep.
> 
> In years past I would have tried anyway and gotten rejected, felt bad about it, and then been actively annoying.


sounds familiar... lol


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> You crack me up…let me check my notes. 😂 I guess I’m having a hard time working this out in my mind. Sounds like she is simply having sex to please you. I thought that was considered duty sex round these parts. I know my STBXH would have felt horrible if he didn’t make me orgasm half or more of our encounters.


it is duty sex. My wife did the same in the last 10 years of our relationship, but only twice a month. It was scheduled, it was a compromise, but the sex was really good and I really fancied her, so frequency wasn't a problem... 🙂


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> it is duty sex. My wife did the same in the last 10 years of our relationship, but only twice a month. It was scheduled, it was a compromise, but the sex was really good and I really fancied her, so frequency wasn't a problem... 🙂


Ok. At least you knew it was duty sex. I just can’t imagine a life like that. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> You crack me up…let me check my notes. 😂 I guess I’m having a hard time working this out in my mind. Sounds like she is simply having sex to please you. I thought that was considered duty sex round these parts. I know my STBXH would have felt horrible if he didn’t make me orgasm half or more of our encounters.


I don’t care why she has sex as long as she does it often enough and is happy to do so.

Feeling bad because she doesn’t have an orgasm when she has a sure fire way to have one every time why would I feel bad? It’s on her if she doesn’t feel like having one.

If she’s not happy to do so that’s fine she can just let me know and then I’ll go do something else like sleep.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> it is duty sex. My wife did the same in the last 10 years of our relationship, but only twice a month. It was scheduled, it was a compromise, but the sex was really good and I really fancied her, so frequency wasn't a problem... 🙂


Depends on how you define duty sex. If you say that it is “sex without desire” then for someone with responsive desire like my wife she will initiate very rarely. Which means almost all sex with her is duty sex.

If you define it as sex because of an obligation, I only initiate when she has shown she will be responsive to it. If she signals responsiveness without me doing anything but is signaling out of an unspoken obligation or something in her own mind then:

A. I’m not a mind reader.

B. If she’s offering and I do not accept then it’s contrary to my goals.

If I consult my journal there are all kinds of situations in there where she has initiated and hasn’t had an orgasm. Some she even did something to make it very special for me without having an orgasm herself.

Was that a coercive thing that I feel bad about? Hell no she did what she wanted to and enjoyed doing it otherwise she wouldn’t have done it.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t care why she has sex as long as she does it often enough and is happy to do so.
> 
> Feeling bad because she doesn’t have an orgasm when she has a sure fire way to have one every time why would I feel bad? It’s on her if she doesn’t feel like having one.
> 
> If she’s not happy to do so that’s fine she can just let me know and then I’ll go do something else like sleep.


If you are happy more power to you. 😁


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Ok. At least you knew it was duty sex. I just can’t imagine a life like that. 🤷🏼‍♀️


First 15 years were great... then her mental issues took over. And I was lost.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Depends on how you define duty sex. If you say that it is “sex without desire” then for someone with responsive desire like my wife she will initiate very rarely. Which means almost all sex with her is duty sex.
> 
> If you define it as sex because of an obligation, I only initiate when she has shown she will be responsive to it. If she signals responsiveness without me doing anything but is signaling out of an unspoken obligation or something in her own mind then:
> 
> ...


You wife has responsive desire. I don't classify that as duty sex. I got responsive desire the first 15 years and then duty sex in the last 15 years. We can debate the reasons, but the last years were definitely duty sex.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Was that a coercive thing that I feel bad about? Hell no she did what she wanted to and enjoyed doing it otherwise she wouldn’t have done it.


I have bad news for you. In the last 15 years my wife decided she had to have sex with me. She always had an orgasm and enjoyed it, to the point of telling me she loved me afterwards. Guess what? When she left our sex life, she told me she did for me (I knew this), to keep the family together (I didn't know this) and also that she had sex with me many many times when she didn't want to. I wouldn't be so sure that "she wouldn't have done it". I was completely in the dark about her real reasons. But you have one advantage: your wife is not bonkers...


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> You wife has responsive desire. I don't classify that as duty sex. I got responsive desire the first 15 years and then duty sex in the last 15 years. We can debate the reasons, but the last years were definitely duty sex.


From what I understand responsive desire means someone has to start the sexual process to be aroused. Kissing etc. It doesn’t explain not orgasming. To me it just sound like she goes along for the ride for his benefit.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> From what I understand responsive desire means someone has to start the sexual process to be aroused. Kissing etc. It doesn’t explain not orgasming. To me it just sound like she goes along for the ride for his benefit.


Yes, in the "no orgasm" scenario. I agree with you. Still, if she doesn't mind...


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I have bad news for you. In the last 15 years my wife decided she had to have sex with me. She always had an orgasm and enjoyed it, to the point of telling me she loved me afterwards. Guess what? When she left our sex life, she told me she did for me (I knew this), to keep the family together (I didn't know this) and also that she had sex with me many many times when she didn't want to. I wouldn't be so sure that "she wouldn't have done it" otherwise. I was completely in the dark about her real reasons. But you have the advantage that your wife is not bonkers...


Why is that bad news for me?

My wife already left our sex life once and if that happens again then I’m leaving our “not sex” life.

If she secretly doesn’t want to and is getting mentally damaged each time and concealing it then yeah “bonkers” would be how I’d describe that.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, in the "no orgasm" scenario. I agree with you. Still, if she doesn't mind...


If she doesn’t mind is different than wanting to actually have sex. I’m what I think a normal drive but I am definitely responsive desire. I didn’t think about sex as much as my husband but once I was in it I wanted it. I wanted orgasms. I can’t imagine just saying use me for your pleasure. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Did you have any children? My wife was in your position (but it's a long story), but instead of divorcing me, she gave me pity sex not to split the family up. She told me when she decided to stop sex completely when I wasn't needed anymore (children grown up).


I’m very sorry to hear that. And no, no children with first husband. Marriage was very brief. I’m pregnant now with my current hubby.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Why is that bad news for me?
> My wife already left our sex life once and if that happens again then I’m leaving our “not sex” life.


Didn't know that. It's not "bad news" if you are aware and prepared for it. I wasn't.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> If she doesn’t mind is different than wanting to actually have sex. I’m what I think a normal drive but I am definitely responsive desire. I didn’t think about sex as much as my husband but once I was in it I wanted it. I wanted orgasms. I can’t imagine just saying use me for your pleasure. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I agree with you. I'm sure my wife wouldn't have had sex with if she didn't get an orgasm out of it. A bit pointless.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I agree with you. I'm sure my wife wouldn't have had sex with if she didn't get an orgasm out of it. A bit pointless.


Pretty much what I am thinking. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Yeah well... it’s weird to me too but it’s a thing. Several women on this site report the same thing.

A cursory search of the literature the first article that comes up for me is this one:









Determinants of female sexual orgasms


The pursuit of sexual pleasure is a key motivating factor in sexual activity. Many things can stand in the way of sexual orgasms and enjoyment, particularly among women. These are essential issues of sexual well-being and gender equality.This study presents ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov





and in there you can find women rating their importance of reaching an orgasm during PIV based on relationship status. Looks like this










I’d suspect my wife is falling into the married bucket where for her it’s not very important or usually important (40%). Interesting that it’s most important for married women.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MEA said:


> I’m not sure because I’m not in OP’s marriage. I* have discovered that most people are in a marriage that I’m glad to not be in, and tell my H regularly how lucky I am and how much I appreciate the gift of marriage God led us into together.*
> I suppose if I were married to someone who badgered me for more sex than I could handle, and tried to convince me I’m the problem, to the point where I felt the need to negotiate sex and “put out” on a schedule regardless of my feelings, then I would probably feel dirty and used. I would feel as if my husband doesn’t value our relationship and friendship and would probably be happier married to a hooker.
> That’s just me though.
> I know there are millions of men in this world who are probably relieved to not be married to me… it can be quite an effort to treat a woman as a human being instead of a compliant object for some.


You are preaching to the choir! We feel the same way!

But the key, you see is that wife and I care about one another, want the other to be happy. I am not sure what you mean about "badgering" for sex. The wife and I have swapped the LD/HD dynamic several times. Most recently my wife was craving intimacy at a rate that challenged me. Was she "badgering me"? I took it as a real complement that she wanted this old man still after all of these years. I am not going to tell her, "you are just a sex maniac, 3 times a day is insane at your age, once a week is all I care for, now leave me alone!" At least in our marriage, whoever was "Low" worked to up their game toward the other rather than dragging the "High" down.

Just my opinion. Worth what was paid.

Anyway, I gess this is a TJ from the OP, my apologies all will say this subject


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Interesting thread, especially since OP has left the building. LD people make life and marriage insufferable. I just wish they’d be honest about it upfront. They are the gatekeepers to sex, and often, they weaponize it. I’d also be careful about men on here that ‘claim’ they fixed their sex lives. I remember one story (don’t remember who of if they still post) that claimed they turned their wife around. Then proceeded to say their wife makes them wear a condom during a BJ. 

Kids ruin marriages (especially the sex). It certainly seems that way for the OP.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah well... it’s weird to me too but it’s a thing. Several women on this site report the same thing.
> 
> A cursory search of the literature the first article that comes up for me is this one:
> 
> ...


Like I said I find it a bit odd. Given how important sex is to you and the line in the sand you have drawn with your wife it seems to me she has sex with you simply to keep you happy and off her back. Orgasms feel great so I have no clue why someone wouldn’t want one. I know this may be TMI but my STBXH could give me one in under 2 minutes. It was never a decision on my part if I should go for it or not. 😂


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Like I said I find it a bit odd. Given how important sex is to you and the line in the sand you have drawn with your wife it seems to me she has sex with you simply to keep you happy and off her back. Orgasms feel great so I have no clue why someone wouldn’t want one. I know this may be TMI but my STBXH could give me one in under 2 minutes. It was never a decision on my part if I should go for it or not. 😂


Gotcha.

I guess if I took the most pessimistic view possible about what is happening as you choose to then the question would be if I cared or not.

Presumably in that case there would have to be a reason she would want to stay in a relationship with me. It could be for money, or just momentum/laziness.

So yes, I would care, because I think I can be with someone else who wouldn’t be with me for those reasons. She could be faking everything good or that I like about our relationship.

She might even be faking the orgasms she does seem to have.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> I guess if I took the most pessimistic view possible about what is happening as you choose to then the question would be if I cared or not.
> 
> ...


I’m sure there are many reasons she wants to stay with you. I’m simply saying that perhaps she just does not have any real sexual attraction to you. Most dead bedrooms are caused by lack of physical attraction. If she is responsive desire and just needs her motor turned on it is curious her lack of interest in orgasms. While I do believe one can have sex occasionally without orgasms the frequency she does is odd. Like I said earlier her making a “decision” to go for it or not may be simply because she just isn’t turned on. It is just easier to let you do your thing and be done with it. I’m just spitting in the wind here…I could be reading it all wrong.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m sure there are many reasons she wants to stay with you. I’m simply saying that perhaps she just does not have any real sexual attraction to you. Most dead bedrooms are caused by lack of physical attraction. If she is responsive desire and just needs her motor turned on it is curious her lack of interest in orgasms. While I do believe one can have sex occasionally without orgasms the frequency she does is odd. Like I said earlier her making a “decision” to go for it or not may be simply because she just isn’t turned on. It is just easier to let you do your thing and be done with it. I’m just spitting in the wind here…I could be reading it all wrong.


Yeah not sure what to do with that. Of course that is a possibility and one I brought up with her a year ago and a possibility I was and am mentally prepared for. Outcome for me is the same, if she isn’t attracted to me then next...

Not sure what I could do about that anyway. I’m already in much better shape than most men period and especially men my age and I’m not ugly so...


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah not sure what to do with that. Of course that is a possibility and one I brought up with her a year ago and a possibility I was and am mentally prepared for. Outcome for me is the same, if she isn’t attracted to me then next...
> 
> Not sure what I could do about that anyway. I’m already in much better shape than most men period and especially men my age and I’m not ugly so...


Like I said I’m spitting in the wind. The dynamics, from what you described are odd.


----------



## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I know there have been times when my wife's primary goal was to get me off without desiring to get off herself. I can't say that her thought process was, "I don't want an orgasm", but it wasn't her goal for sex at that time. Now I'm still trying to achieve that and in some of those times it still just happens, but she really didn't care either way. I think it is a little strange to not "want" an orgasm, but she has told me on many occasions that it isn't her goal while having sex.


This makes sense to me. For me, O is a bit difficult to achieve and on occasion feels impossible. If I try too hard to come, I just get frustrated, so I take it off the table when I feel like that. This could be due to stress, pregnancy, conflict, or anything really. However, I love my husband very much and want to please him, so sometimes I initiate sex just for him. My goal is his pleasure, and I enjoy it because he does. He would always prefer I come too, but sometimes it’s just not in the cards.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Skookaroo said:


> This makes sense to me. For me, O is a bit difficult to achieve and on occasion feels impossible. If I try too hard to come, I just get frustrated, so I take it off the table when I feel like that. This could be due to stress, pregnancy, conflict, or anything really. However, I love my husband very much and want to please him, so sometimes I initiate sex just for him. My goal is his pleasure, and I enjoy it because he does. He would always prefer I come too, but sometimes it’s just not in the cards.


So my wife is similar, Skook. She starts to get anxious and gets frustrated. She starts to have these "calm down" long breaths and tries to concentrate too much. 

That's when I hold her and tell her everything is OK. Relax. We have nothing else to do today. I'm not going anywhere. I'll work for as long as it takes. I don't care if this will take another hour or two hours. I love being here in this exact moment. I love being with her and that is what matters to me the most - and most importantly, she knows that I mean it when I say these things. 

This has worked, without fail, to calm her and relax her brain every single time. Then she orgasms In less than. 4 minutes. She thanks me every time for calming her so she can enjoy herself then she gets mad that she does this to herself half of the time. I tell her its OK. If you get anxious and/or frustrated, I'll always be here to help. No need to beat yourself up. 

My wife has also taken a variety of anti-anxiety meds. This causes problems as well, but then she gets off them and the anxiety returns and then has problems.... lol. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

So, maybe have a conversation with your husband. He married you so I'm gonna assume he loves you. Ask him to be with you and if he can be patient if it takes you a long time. See if that helps calm your nerves to enjoy your time with your husband more.


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

OP, if you're still around, have you and your wife looked at the 5 love languages material? Your love language is probably physical touch, hers is probably something else. I was you before, in my first marriage. Here's my advice:

Exercise more--nothing helped me with frustration like chopping firewood. I don't know if you can make yourself too tired for sex at 30, but you can try! 

This is an opportunity for you to transcend, for a little while, a physical desire that is hurting you right now. Pretend you're a monk. Growth hurts, but this is an amazing opportunity for growth. 

At the same time, read up on the 180. It's not about preparing to leave your wife, it's about a better you.

Then hopefully, your wife will be inspired to do the same. Some personal work, better communication, understanding her needs and how to advocate for them. 

You guys can do this, and it can start with just you, but ultimately it'll take two. Good luck!!


----------



## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> If she doesn’t mind is different than wanting to actually have sex. I’m what I think a normal drive but I am definitely responsive desire. I didn’t think about sex as much as my husband but once I was in it I wanted it. I wanted orgasms. I can’t imagine just saying use me for your pleasure. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I know I'm late to this conversation, but I will say that I don't generally feel the need to orgasm (but of course enjoy when it happens). Now I don't ever have sex and start out thinking "well, I don't really want an O today." But I can see where a woman, particularly with responsive desire, might not care if that's the outcome sometimes. I seem to be higher drive at the moment, and while I want the pleasure of sex, it is as much about intimacy for me, if not more so, than pleasure. So if I start out hoping to orgasm and then it seems like I might not get there, well. . . I'm still happy we had the encounter. So maybe CC's wife is into it because she wants that intimacy with her husband. Even during the times that I was lower drive and wasn't really enjoying our encounters, most of the time (outside of those years where I was dealing with an aversion), I still enjoyed the intimacy of it. So maybe she sees it as quality time spent with him even if she doesn't feel the need for an orgasm that day.


----------



## Helpunderstand (Aug 2, 2020)

Try and make more one on one with eachother by going on dates and have someone watch your child over night. Don’t try to have sex the first or second date as this will most likely reaffirm her idea of that’s what you only want. After a few dates, she might open up more to the idea of sex as she isn’t thinking that’s all you focus on doing.


----------



## alexismazur (Sep 8, 2020)

We have set everyday. Hes not reciprocating. What should I do


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

alexismazur said:


> We have set everyday. Hes not reciprocating. What should I do


What?


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> What?


I was thinking the same thing.


----------

