# Best Friend Ultimatum



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Hay guys. Long time lurker here and now I've run into an issue of my own I need help with.

I'm a guy, and one of best friends is a girl. We've been through a lot together, but we've never dated and never will due to a few massive deal breakers. We live in different cities but talk to each other frequently over text, and I only see her about once every two months when I go to her city (my parents live there and we hang out while I'm in town).

Recently she started dating someone, and I am thrilled for her. I am rooting for her success, and I've helped her as much as I could from a "guy best friend" perspective. He's a very nice guy, but he is very insecure and jealous (due to his ex-wife cheating on him). Out of respect for the relationship I offered to take a step back by reducing the amount of texting and not hanging out with her anymore when I'm in town.

Recently I've found out that he had actually given her an ultimatum a few weeks back, that she must stop being friends with me period or he'll leave her. This has appalled me, because apparently she told him that we are no longer friends and yet has been texting me as if nothing has happened. She tells me that she doesn't want to give up the friendship, and she asked me to continue being her friend while she tries to "change his mind".

Obviously, I know that if this continues it's going to end badly. I've told her that I refuse to engage in a secret relationship with her, and that she really needs to figure out what she wants, because right now it's not fair to either of us, but she keeps dodging the issue. I think I should just walk away from the whole situation, but it feels like I am abandoning her. Any help?


EDIT: To clarify, she was up front about being best friends with me when they first started dating, and he said he was okay with that. A few weeks ago he was snooping through her phone and read some of our conversation. Nothing bad - we were just chatting about random stuff, certainly nothing about the relationship or anything - and that's when he decided she must cut me out of her life.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Some comments from my perspective:

1.) Her bf is not wrong in requesting she cut ties with you. That's HIS boundary that he has made clear with her. If she doesn't like it she's free to dump him at any time. You should take his boundary seriously and stop contacting her.

2.) The fact that she is circumventing his boundary by talking with you means that she doesn't respect him and is lying to him to keep him appeased. If you're her friend at all you'll call her out on her [email protected] because this is a disrespectful way to treat a man. Would you wanted to be treated this way? Again, if she doesn't like his boundaries, she can freely DUMP HIM.

3.) She will never be able to "change him." Only he can decide if and when his boundaries change.

4.) You told her you refused to carry on with a secret relationship, yet you're still doing it, aren't you? So... follow through and go NC with her.

Friendships are not always meant to be ever-lasting. Sometimes they're transitory. You're at a point in your life where you are discovering this possibility, I am guessing for the first time? It is a life lesson, so take wisdom from it.

You are not abandoning her, she's a grown-arse woman and can make her own decisions. If she isn't an adult, then this is the perfect time for her to learn how to be one.

Lastly... is everything you mentioned in your post about her boyfriend coming from her mouth or his? Did the boyfriend tell you himself that he is very insecure and jealous because of his cheating, ex-wife?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Your friend should realize that her new BF will demand she not have any guy friends. You are only the beginning of her battles for friends. She should find a BF with less insecurities.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

What did he read in the texting and why did it freak him out?

Why are you making her choose between you?

I think you're in an EA but don't see it. Are you dating anyone else? Has this best friend of yours interfered in any of your relationships - freaked out any women you're dating?

I had TONS of girls as friends when my wife and I became serious. Some became OUR fiends, and some just went away. That's the way it is.

She had one guy close friend... that blossomed into an EA when we moved in together, and she dumped him when I threatened to leave. Only to come back again, more than a decade later.

These things are tricky. Be clear with yourself.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Satya said:


> Some comments from my perspective:
> 
> 1.) Her bf is not wrong in requesting she cut ties with you. That's HIS boundary that he has made clear with her. If she doesn't like it she's free to dump him at any time. You should take his boundary seriously and stop contacting her.
> 
> ...


Thank you. And I agree with most of your points. I've explained to her that us continuing being friends is akin to an emotional affair. Since she's told me about the ultimatum I haven't texted her at all. She's been contacting me because of various reasons. I've just been trying to let her decide because she says she will, but now I'm thinking I will not give her the choice anymore.

She said from day one that he's naturally insecure because he's overweight and other stuff. Apparently when they're together he's very possessive and constantly accusing her of making him jealous because she's naturally very friendly and open. I've addressed some of the red flags to her already, but she knows it's her choice.

And I know that friendships can fade just like all relationships. I'm just a bit thrown off because I've explained to her that if our friendship means that much to her, she needs to defend it and face the consequences, and if they can't compromise she will need to face the music, and instead she keeps dodging the issue.


----------



## depressedandexhausted (Aug 24, 2015)

marduk said:


> What did he read in the texting and why did it freak him out?
> 
> Why are you making her choose between you?
> 
> ...


This...


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

marduk said:


> What did he read in the texting and why did it freak him out?
> 
> Why are you making her choose between you?
> 
> ...


I'm not the one making her choose between us. He was the one who dropped the ultimatum on her. She told him that we're not friends anymore but is still friends with me in secret, and it's making me uncomfortable.

I am okay with not being friends for her if she wants to choose the relationship over me. That's not the problem. The problem is she's NOT choosing, so I'm wondering if I should choose for her.

I had a girlfriend when I met her, and she was totally okay with it. Even when I was single we weren't interested in dating each other because of lots of factors. And she told me the issue isn't my status. Even if I were to get married he would still forbid the friendship. He knows that we would never date. He's just terrified that we would cheat behind his back.

And our texts were innocent. She said that he just didn't like the fact that we were talking for so long. We were talking in the morning - my friend and I are early risers. he's unemployed and sleeps in late.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Your friend should realize that her new BF will demand she not have any guy friends. You are only the beginning of her battles for friends. She should find a BF with less insecurities.


Apparently outside the insecurities he's pretty cool? I'm not going to ask her to give up the relationship. I'm just hurt that if our friendship means that much to her, she should defend it openly instead of going about sneakily.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tobira said:


> I'm not the one making her choose between us. He was the one who dropped the ultimatum on her. She told him that we're not friends anymore but is still friends with me in secret, and it's making me uncomfortable.
> 
> I am okay with not being friends for her if she wants to choose the relationship over me. That's not the problem. The problem is she's NOT choosing, so I'm wondering if I should choose for her.


See, but you _are_ making her choose between you. And that's what makes me think you're in an EA.

The choice I think that would be a better choice is between her living a life of integrity (and hence can be your close friend) or not (and hence not be your close friend)... get what I mean?

Because that's not about this other guy at all, right? It's about your friend who's not living on the up and up.



> I had a girlfriend when I met her, and she was totally okay with it. Even when I was single we weren't interested in dating each other because of lots of factors. And she told me the issue isn't my status. Even if I were to get married he would still forbid the friendship. He knows that we would never date. He's just terrified that we would cheat behind his back.
> 
> And our texts were innocent. She said that he just didn't like the fact that we were talking for so long. We were talking in the morning - my friend and I are early risers. he's unemployed and sleeps in late.


Hmm.

Are you sure they were innocent? What were you talking about?


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

marduk said:


> See, but you _are_ making her choose between you. And that's what makes me think you're in an EA.
> 
> The choice I think that would be a better choice is between her living a life of integrity (and hence can be your close friend) or not (and hence not be your close friend)... get what I mean?
> 
> ...


Ah, okay. I see where you're coming from. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess I would feel better if she would just tell me, "Sorry, can't be friends with you anymore." or "That guy's a jerk, forget him. Now let's figure out which poster would look great in my new living room." Instead she's telling me both at the same time and it's confusing and maddening.

From what I remember, we were talking about British television and room decor (she's moving soon). We just have a lot in common.


----------



## Tobin (Jun 24, 2015)

I doubt the texts were innocent if it set him off like that.

You're probably in an EA with her and you don't realize it.

She's being dishonest with her boyfriend and that says a lot about her integrity, and it's not good.

You've already told her you won't be in a secret relationship and well, that's a good start but the whole thing is still a mess no matter how you look at it.

Follow through, she's either open with him about your EA or you'll have no choice but to cut her off.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Quite an accusatory, possessive, insecure, overweight, unemployed gem she has found there. As a friend, have you asked her what she sees in him?


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> Quite an accusatory, possessive, insecure, overweight, unemployed gem she has found there. As a friend, have you asked her what she sees in him?


He wants to marry her after 2 weeks of dating. Makes her feel wanted. Or something.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Tobin said:


> I doubt the texts were innocent if it set him off like that.
> 
> You're probably in an EA with her and you don't realize it.
> 
> ...


We've never really had any inappropriate conversations. Like I said, I met her when I had a girlfriend. Our texts have always been PG, with the occasional swear. She said he's always had trouble with her talking to other guys and won't really budge.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tobira said:


> Ah, okay. I see where you're coming from. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess I would feel better if she would just tell me, "Sorry, can't be friends with you anymore." or "That guy's a jerk, forget him. Now let's figure out which poster would look great in my new living room." Instead she's telling me both at the same time and it's confusing and maddening.
> 
> From what I remember, we were talking about British television and room decor (she's moving soon). We just have a lot in common.


Ok then here's the deal.

Let's focus on you. You have a girl as a best friend who's hooked up with a fat unemployed insecure slob and still wants you to be her best friend, but on the down low.

She likely knows she's in a terrible relationship, but still wants your emotional support.

I suggest both for her sake and yours you turn that volume down to like 1 or 2. And here's why.

Attention you give to her is actually propping her up. It may be how she stays with this loser. Take it away, and the situation will likely resolve itself shortly.

Plus, attention you're giving to her detracts from attention you give to chasing hot babes for yourself. Trust me, I've been there. You get so wrapped up in girl drama with your friends that you forget to create drama of your own. She should be helping you find mrs right, not creating drama in your life.

So turn that volume down for both your sakes.

"best friend, listen, I just can't support what you're doing. I care about you and always will, but I need to live a life of integrity, not be hiding from your boyfriend. I also don't agree with your relationship - I think he has issues he needs to get over before a relationship with you can really begin. If things don't work out with him or he gets to a better place, let's be best friends again. Until then, let's just be more casual friends, OK?"

Something like that.

And go get life a bit messy for yourself. It sounds a little to neat with your British TV shows and interest in home decor.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
If you care for your friend at all you will tell her to proceed with extreme caution. 2 weeks and he's proposed? I would be deeply concerned. If she marries him now this will end horribly.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

She's not telling you firmly to buzz off because if she's wishy washy, you can do the deed and then it will be your fault the friendship ended. Sorry to sound judgemental, but young women have a particularly challenging time being direct. 

Your friend is looking less and less mature as this thread grows.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

She's co dependent, he's insecure. This is a short term problem for you.
MN


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Marduk is hitting the nail on the head with my thoughts, just coming from the male perspective.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

marduk said:


> Ok then here's the deal.
> 
> Let's focus on you. You have a girl as a best friend who's hooked up with a fat unemployed insecure slob and still wants you to be her best friend, but on the down low.
> 
> ...


Thanks. She hasn't been a bad friend per se throughout our friendship. But the recent behavior I'm finding a bit appalling, especially when she knows how anti-cheating I am.

I've been dating vigorously these days and everything is cool on my end. Thanks for the advice though!


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> If you care for your friend at all you will tell her to proceed with extreme caution. 2 weeks and he's proposed? I would be deeply concerned. If she marries him now this will end horribly.


I have. Many, many times. I told her I have her best intentions at heart and that I'm only going to bring up red flags, but not push her. Ball's in her court now I guess.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Satya said:


> She's not telling you firmly to buzz off because if she's wishy washy, you can do the deed and then it will be your fault the friendship ended. Sorry to sound judgemental, but young women have a particularly challenging time being direct.
> 
> Your friend is looking less and less mature as this thread grows.


Yeah, you've nailed it actually. She's not very emotionally mature and goes out of her way to be a people-pleaser to avoid conflict. It's why we're in this situation in the first place - she didn't stand her ground and never challenged the ultimatum. One of her friends just told me that her way of "changing his mind" is to repeatedly guilt him into accepting our friendship by making him feel bad instead of actually defending herself. I think the solution is pretty clear. Thanks for your input.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Just learn from this, man. Wrap your head around why you've chosen her as your best friend.

Dating vigorously? Good for you! How's that going?


----------



## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

You're probably conversing with an ease and familiarity that he is threatened by. Not only because of his history of being cheated on, but also because he knows that he will most likely not be able to match your compatibility in a conversational/connection respect. 

Kindly tell her to either set her boundaries with him and what he originally agreed was ok, or no hurt feelings, respect her new man's request and reach out again if it doesn't pan out. Marduk's framing it about her personal integrity is a great way to approach it.


----------



## Tobin (Jun 24, 2015)

tobira said:


> He wants to marry her after 2 weeks of dating. Makes her feel wanted. Or something.


Yes, this is completely normal.

:surprise:


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

tobira said:


> Apparently outside the insecurities he's pretty cool? I'm not going to ask her to give up the relationship. I'm just hurt that if our friendship means that much to her, she should defend it openly instead of going about sneakily.


There are many cool people with insecurities. However, this particular insecurity will prove to be an issue with any friend she wishes to have. You are just the tip of the iceberg.

I did not suggest you ask she give up the current relationship. I suggest you advise this ultimatum to drop you like a bad habit will also translate to any other people she might try to befriend. 

And yes, she should defend your friendship openly but the OM will see it as protecting her "friend" who is more than likely a threat to in his mind. This causes more headache for her so she hides it. And that is my case and point. From now on her BF will dictate who she can have as a friend.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

marduk said:


> Just learn from this, man. Wrap your head around why you've chosen her as your best friend.
> 
> Dating vigorously? Good for you! How's that going?


Yep, lesson learned for sure. We've been through a lot together actually. I've saved her life no less than twice and was always available for emotional support (within reason), and she has been too for the most part. But her recent behavior has been telling. She knows I have my boundaries and I'll let her know that she's crossed it, and the rest is up to her.

Going pretty well, thanks for asking. :smile2:


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tobira said:


> Yep, lesson learned for sure. We've been through a lot together actually. I've saved her life no less than twice and was always available for emotional support (within reason), and she has been too for the most part. But her recent behavior has been telling. She knows I have my boundaries and I'll let her know that she's crossed it, and the rest is up to her.
> 
> Going pretty well, thanks for asking. :smile2:


Sally forth with great abandon, you fabulous guy.

In the words of Jim Morrison... "Let there be great, golden copulations!"

You're a sweet guy. Go be sweet to some grown up women.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

rich84 said:


> You're probably conversing with an ease and familiarity that he is threatened by. Not only because of his history of being cheated on, but also because he knows that he will most likely not be able to match your compatibility in a conversational/connection respect.
> 
> Kindly tell her to either set her boundaries with him and what he originally agreed was ok, or no hurt feelings, respect her new man's request and reach out again if it doesn't pan out. Marduk's framing it about her personal integrity is a great way to approach it.


Thank you. I agree and will approach it that way.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> There are many cool people with insecurities. However, this particular insecurity will prove to be an issue with any friend she wishes to have. You are just the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> I did not suggest you ask she give up the current relationship. I suggest you advise this ultimatum to drop you like a bad habit will also translate to any other people she might try to befriend.
> 
> And yes, she should defend your friendship openly but the OM will see it as protecting her "friend" who is more than likely a threat to in his mind. This causes more headache for her so she hides it. And that is my case and point. From now on her BF will dictate who she can have as a friend.


Yeah, I've hinted at the fact that if he's being controlling. But I'm not her keeper. She says she hates being controlled, but if her being wanted outweighs her own self-respect then I'm not even sure I know her anymore.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

marduk said:


> Sally forth with great abandon, you fabulous guy.
> 
> In the words of Jim Morrison... "Let there be great, golden copulations!"
> 
> You're a sweet guy. Go be sweet to some grown up women.


:wink2: Thank you again!


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

tobira said:


> Yeah, I've hinted at the fact that if he's being controlling. But I'm not her keeper. She says she hates being controlled, but if her being wanted outweighs her own self-respect then I'm not even sure I know her anymore.


As a friend you can only see what she is not seeing. You can advise but she does not have to take heed to that advice. Like any other new relationship the fog is thick as pea soup. Apparently in 2 weeks BF has dropped the marriage word? Ok, I hear fog horns in the thick of it. 

You have done what you can. Step back and let the cards fall as they may. 

Go find a main squeeze and have fun.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> As a friend you can only see what she is not seeing. You can advise but she does not have to take heed to that advice. Like any other new relationship the fog is thick as pea soup. Apparently in 2 weeks BF has dropped the marriage word? Ok, I hear fog horns in the thick of it.
> 
> You have done what you can. Step back and let the cards fall as they may.
> 
> Go find a main squeeze and have fun.


Will do. Thank you for the advice.

She just texted me earlier stating how she might financial assistance coming up, and she won't (can't) turn to the boyfriend for help. I told her nicely that I really do not appreciate our current position, and that I won't be giving her any support, financial or otherwise, until she stands up for herself and figures out what she wants. She accused me of "not being a friend and not being there when she needs help", but I just reminded her that by being there "in secret", I'm enabling a habit as bad as any, and as a friend I can't condone what she's doing anymore. She's gone silent since.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

tobira said:


> Will do. Thank you for the advice.
> 
> She just texted me earlier stating how she might financial assistance coming up, and she won't (can't) turn to the boyfriend for help. I told her nicely that I really do not appreciate our current position, and that I won't be giving her any support, financial or otherwise, until she stands up for herself and figures out what she wants. She accused me of "not being a friend and not being there when she needs help", but I just reminded her that by being there "in secret", I'm enabling a habit as bad as any, and as a friend I can't condone what she's doing anymore. She's gone silent since.


She needs to turn to her BF. If she borrows money from you and BF finds out...game over.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> She needs to turn to her BF. If she borrows money from you and BF finds out...game over.


Yeah, I told her that I'm not her ATM or the mysterious relative who keeps dying and leaving her money. If she wants to turn to me for help as a friend she better acknowledge me as a friend.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'd just respond "I'm not OK with that." 

Or better yet, "No."


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

tobira said:


> If she wants to turn to me for help as a friend she better acknowledge me as a friend.


I would agree that you stated the correct thing here. Further, she is hiding not only a friendship from the BF but hiding the borrowing of money as well. What next?


This is all too funky for me. I would look to cut ties.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Satya said:


> I'd just respond "I'm not OK with that."
> 
> Or better yet, "No."


Yep. I know her boyfriend is unemployed at the moment and I would have gladly helped her out if we were openly friends. But now, ehhhh...


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> I would agree that you stated the correct thing here. Further, she is hiding not only a friendship from the BF but hiding the borrowing of money as well. What next?
> 
> 
> This is all too funky for me. I would look to cut ties.


Yeah, I've told her a few times before that if she's going to hide stuff like this from him, he has good reason not to trust her. And thinking about it, down the line I'm going to stop trusting her as well, so cutting ties is looking like a painful but necessary option.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

tobira said:


> Yeah, I've told her a few times before that if she's going to hide stuff like this from him, he has good reason not to trust her. *And thinking about it, down the line I'm going to stop trusting her as well,* so cutting ties is looking like a painful but necessary option.


You are thinking clearly.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> You are thinking clearly.


Thank you :smile2:


----------



## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

tobira said:


> Ah, okay. I see where you're coming from. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess I would feel better if she would just tell me, "Sorry, can't be friends with you anymore." or "That guy's a jerk, forget him. Now let's figure out which poster would look great in my new living room." Instead she's telling me both at the same time and it's confusing and maddening.
> 
> From what I remember, we were talking about British television and room decor (she's moving soon). We just have a lot in common.


Women are rarely(almost never) up front about these things, because they don't want to hurt the other person. So they might stall and stall and hope that you get the hint and go away without her being the bad person to tell you up front. 

I suggest that you step back. See if she contacts you on her own. My guess is she will not.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

nirvana said:


> Women are rarely(almost never) up front about these things, because they don't want to hurt the other person. So they might stall and stall and hope that you get the hint and go away without her being the bad person to tell you up front.
> 
> I suggest that you step back. See if she contacts you on her own. My guess is she will not.


I've already stepped back. I haven't texted her since July. She's the only who keeps texting me and I'd respond (of course, I didn't know about the ultimatum). And ever since she told me about the ultimatum last weekend I've told her that we shouldn't talk anymore, she'll say something like "we'll see what happens" and continue talking.

But yeah, I already told her that I'm not going to respond anymore and that if something changes between them that'll make our friendship viable again, I might consider rekindling it, but right now I'm just going to walk away - for everyone's sake.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I stand by my diagnosis of Co dependent. My Oldest D is like this. For years she thought she needed a full stable of friends. She would drop everything, miss work, lose jobs whatever if she thought a friend might need her. Even if the friend didn't ask. She had to get over all of that drama before she was able to fully commit to one partner. 

I think you are doing the right thing. I think your perception of the BF is probably right as well. He is week and can only fill her emotional needs. 

There will be tears, there may be screaming. If you can weather that you will be around to pick up the pieces. If not someone else will.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I had a friend like this. He was a guy, though. But my best friend for a long, long time.

Constant drama. Never actually grew up. Kinda stayed stuck at 25. Or in his case, more like 19. It became awkward when the rest of us moved on and he didn't.

I remember when I was throwing my (soon to be) wife a birthday party, and he wanted to invite a stripper.

Not a male stripper - a 19 year old female stripper that he was dating when he was 30. I said no, he flipped out, and we drifted apart for various related reasons. He took it hard when the 19 year old stripper dumped him because he was too immature. I'm not kidding, you can't make this stuff up.

My wife had a similar friend that she had to 'break up with'. We all have them, I think, and letting them go is part of growing up.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> I stand by my diagnosis of Co dependent. My Oldest D is like this. For years she thought she needed a full stable of friends. She would drop everything, miss work, lose jobs whatever if she thought a friend might need her. Even if the friend didn't ask. She had to get over all of that drama before she was able to fully commit to one partner.
> 
> I think you are doing the right thing. I think your perception of the BF is probably right as well. He is week and can only fill her emotional needs.
> 
> There will be tears, there may be screaming. If you can weather that you will be around to pick up the pieces. If not someone else will.


Funny thing is, she said her last long-term relationship was totally a codependency (her boyfriend never worked so she had to work and go to school and raise her kid, etc.) so she wanted to avoid falling into that again. It's one of the reasons why she told me that she was proceeding carefully, and that she'll never be controlled again. She has confided in me before that she had thought about breaking up with him, but then gave him "a last chance to shape up" - no less than 4 times. 

Honestly, I knew the relationship is pretty much dysfunctional the moment he snooped through her phone and she shrugged it off instead of berating him for violating her trust.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

marduk said:


> I had a friend like this. He was a guy, though. But my best friend for a long, long time.
> 
> Constant drama. Never actually grew up. Kinda stayed stuck at 25. Or in his case, more like 19. It became awkward when the rest of us moved on and he didn't.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's insane.

Honestly I think we were friends for so long was because we lived in different cities, so there was little drama in person. She was emotionally volatile at times (had to call the cops on her once to stop her suicide attempt) but we always had fun hanging out and chatting together. But yeah, after this little episode I don't know if she'll ever get a wedding invite if I get married.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

My take is it;s a $hit test he has setup for her. She should tell him she wants to remain a couple but cant see the wisdom of giving up friendships in order to continue. In other words, $hit test him back. 

If he caves in, then it;s over and she maintains her balance of power. If he doesn't then she needs to dump the control freak eventually. 

I would never dump a friend because their boyfriend said she had to dump me. 

I would sit idly by while they self-destruct and then go on as normal. 

Friendships ebb and flow. Right now she is with an idiot and it is up to her to figure it out. 

The way OSF should work when they are legit and not a cover for a cheater, is when one of the OSF's is in a relationship, you give the friendship some "space" to see where it goes. IF it becomes super serious then, give it some more. If it ends keep it going. 

I am a believer in friends come and go throughout life for various reasons. I just dont force it unless a friendship deal killer comes up.

IF someone tells me they cant be friends right now, I accept it. If they come back I accept that too. 

Too often, people take these things into all or nothing land which in my view is goofy and unneeded.

Live a fuller life because you allow flexibility with your relationships along with those boundaries. 

I suggest the same for you because it works


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> My take is it;s a $hit test he has setup for her. She should tell him she wants to remain a couple but cant see the wisdom of giving up friendships in order to continue. In other words, $hit test him back.
> 
> If he caves in, then it;s over and she maintains her balance of power. If he doesn't then she needs to dump the control freak eventually.
> 
> ...


That is fantastic advice, thanks.

I have boundaries and I've stated to her that I won't have them crossed. She can do whatever she wants to at this point.


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

First off The OP NEVER really said but instead sort of summarized some of what was said and of course its all above board and all PG.. 

So I will say bullsh!t on that.. Straight and simple.. I will call the OP a Liar.. Screen shot a few pages, black out the names and post it.. Because it's all bullsh!t.. 

I'm 48 years old.. I have seen MANY, MANY crazy things in my life.. 

I am fortunate to have MANY friends and maybe, just maybe.. I might have been so fortunate that I have NEVER had any man or woman for that matter that had a *OPPOSITE SEX BF or close friend * that wasn't gay.. 

But honestly I doubt it.. Even my own cheating ex wife told me, men and women cannot be friends unless one is gay or a cousin, and even then the cousin might have to be gay..* (Mind you can copy that quote and search this site for it.. I have said it many times in the past )*

So no, this guy just didn't read. 
Hey how is your day ? How are the kids ? 
Is he/she feeling better from the cold ? 
Oh, Your BF seems real nice.. 

No.. He didn't read that.. What he read what silly innuendos from you or her and then her probably playing dumb about it because she knew it crossed the line.. 

So where there's smoke, there's fire.. 

Why, because I have been there and done that.. Her BF only mistake is allowing his EMOTIONS to rule the moment.. I learned after 2 years NOT to let that happen.. 

What I got in the end was the GF apologizing about it all.. A sincere and honest apology and most importantly a fresh start..

Being a former OBESE guy I do take some offense to the comments being laid out by some here against this other man.. Once again I refer back to the GF.. When she was thin and extremely hot she also wondered why people would allow themselves to be fat.. Once she had her second child she quickly realized how inaccurate she was with her comments.. After 4 years she is still trying to lose the weight she gained.. Mind you I would not toss her out of bed for it and I am sure many men *(if not all)* here would not either.. 

We have no clue why he lost his job or what he did.. He could be an engineer of some sort for all we know or ran his own business making good money that he lost in the divorce.. 

Further unless it's a city job, you pretty much take a risk as any job can be lost or cut at any time.. After 25 years in the Police force I am taking that exact risk right now by leaving my own secure job to go with an investment bank, mind you this is as the stock market takes a huge plunge this week.. So yea I'm scared as a lot is riding on this for my family as well. I get a financial independance I have never felt for the first time in my life.. I hopefully get to make more money than I need to or care to spend in a month.. But I know I always have the chance of them cutting me loose.. Which utterly scares the fvck out of me.. 

So unless some other posters here know who this BF is.. Let's chill on the fat slob, unemployed loser judgements just yet.. 

Plus.. Get this.. 

This WOMAN with a kid, is fvcking and sucking this fat slob, unemployed loser d!ck at night and she isn't complaining about it.. I'm pretty sure as much as we don't want to accept this.. He has to be doing something right in bed at least.. 

I mean if he is such a loser and he sucks in bed.. Well what does that say about this woman ?.. 

So to me and maybe I have a warped reality here and maybe I am reading too much between the lines.. But I really fvcking doubt it..

The OP said some fvcked up sh!t and this guy is right to be upset.. The simple point is he shouldn't be upset with the OP.. He should be upset with the GF for her allowing such conversations to continue unchecked and unquestioned.. 

Yes his overweight does give him self esteem issues.. Again I know. Been there, done that.. Never again.. Never again.. 

I'm 235, running and losing a bit more weight and trying to tone up a bit.. I might even go for surgery to possibly look at some lose skin I have that I don't think will ever recover at my age around my stomach and legs..

This BF issue is one he loses this weight he will get more looks and more attention.. Its a sad reality.. 

I tell the OP as I told the GF.. If your GF seen the conversations you were having with this other woman, would your GF be okay with it.. Would YOU be okay if you seen these sort of text messages come across your GF phone as you were with her from another man ?

No.. You wouldn't.. No man would.. The ONLY difference is some guys are cooler than others.. Other men just say okay, I see this isn't serious so I need not to invest too much personal time and emotions into this relationship.. 

Me ? I piss on every fvcking tree I come across.. I see something not right I speak what is on my mind.. Straight and simple.. I express how it makes me feel, I don't care if it makes me look weak.. Why ? Because I'm the mother fvcking king of my jungle.. I fear no man.. Why because I've seen it all and I learned that EVERY MAN BLEEDS and can be hurt.. 

My GF knows I don't like what she does or did.. But this time I DON'T whine about it.. Now my mentality is "*This is what I expect out of this situation or relationship"*.. If I see something different and YOU do not correct it immediately I will have a fight and argument with YOU.. Not them.. But you.. I will think less of you if YOU allow inappropriate comments to be addressed to you.. Because I will think you like it and want those comments.. 

What it also means is YOU no longer have any control over what I say or is said to me.. So I in turn can say those exact words to another woman and a woman can say them to me and YOU have no say or power over it.. 

So if this is the type of relationship YOU want.. By all means then go down that road.. But mind you it will be YOU and ONLY YOU that can start and stop this before it starts.. 

The problem is this BF hasn't learned this yet.. But hopefully he will..


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Hardtohandle said:


> ...


I certainly appreciate your input. 

I guess it's a matter of perspective. I usually have good control over my emotions and if I KNOW there is no future between a girl and I, I wouldn't waste the energy to pursue it, and I'll make it clear to the other party so they don't get the wrong idea. I've kept very good female friends over the years, some longer than a decade, without us ever having much tension. Those who didn't drift apart I became friends with their SO's as well.

I don't mean to rag on the guy. The fact he's willing to marry my friend and be her kid's dad is a testament to his character, assuming his feelings are pure. From what I hear from her friends, he had been living at home due to his health issues and was laid off from his Geek Squad job a few months back, before they started dating. As I've told my friend before, insecurity is only a deal breaker if you let it become one.

I can take some screenshots and post some conversations if you'd like, but I agree that regardless of content, he's perfectly justified in how he feels what the conditions of the relationship should be. I was just initially taken aback because my friend and I are very, VERY anti-cheating (my dad cheated on my mom for years; my friend's ex cheated on her), and the fact that she roped me into an EA, intentional or not, is deeply unsettling. I've clearly voiced my thoughts to her yesterday and we haven't spoken since, so hopefully things will end up being on the right track regardless of what happens.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, my view on this is that you are being passive aggressive towards her husband especially when you describe him or their relationship. Even when you pay him a compliment, it is shrouded in insults.

Which tends to make me believe that this is an EA and there is more to it than meets the eye. And I haven't seen an OSF friendship where the guy doesn't want to jump the girl unless he's gay (and even then sometimes). I agree with HardToHandle.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> OP, my view on this is that you are being passive aggressive towards her husband especially when you describe him or their relationship. Even when you pay him a compliment, it is shrouded in insults.
> 
> Which tends to make me believe that this is an EA and there is more to it than meets the eye. And I haven't seen an OSF friendship where the guy doesn't want to jump the girl unless he's gay (and even then sometimes). I agree with HardToHandle.


That's fair. I guess it's because I'm seeing some pretty harsh red flags, so I can't praise him the way my friend does. She's told me herself that she wanted to break up with him at least 4 or 5 times, but always ended up staying. It's not just me - all of her friends and family think he's nice, but that's about it. We have all warned my friend to proceed with extreme caution.

And I don't have any such feelings for her. We even went out once and played wingman for each other trying to pick up girls. It was hilarious. She's not my type, physically or otherwise.


----------



## Tobin (Jun 24, 2015)

tobira said:


> We even went out once and played wingman for each other trying to pick up girls. It was hilarious. She's not my type, physically or otherwise.


If she's trying to pick up girls then she's not your type, unless she's bisexual in which case she's EVERY guys type.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

Tobin said:


> If she's trying to pick up girls then she's not your type, unless she's bisexual in which case she's EVERY guys type.


She's bi. But she's doesn't do casual sex or one-night stands because she equates sex with love. I'm much less emotionally invested when it comes to physical matters. That's why I don't flirt with her.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tobira said:


> That's fair. I guess it's because I'm seeing some pretty harsh red flags, so I can't praise him the way my friend does. She's told me herself that she wanted to break up with him at least 4 or 5 times, but always ended up staying. It's not just me - all of her friends and family think he's nice, but that's about it. We have all warned my friend to proceed with extreme caution.
> 
> And I don't have any such feelings for her. We even went out once and played wingman for each other trying to pick up girls. It was hilarious. She's not my type, physically or otherwise.


Lol.

I had a friend that was a bi girl, we had many fun times. We had exactly the same taste in women, so it caused much confusion and laughter. 

And not a lot of sex, of course, because most girls thought we were a couple looking for a three way. Which, I'm sure, would have been fine but wasn't the intent.

Oh, the good times...


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

marduk said:


> Lol.
> 
> I had a friend that was a bi girl, we had many fun times. We had exactly the same taste in women, so it caused much confusion and laughter.
> 
> ...


Oh that's cute. :smile2:

Yeah I think the only aspect of women we've agreed on is hair color (we both like redheads). From that point on our tastes really start to part. I've joked with her that a prude bi girl will probably end up blowing a lot of guys' minds.


----------



## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

If you're looking for a new best girl friend to give money to without drama, I'm available.


----------



## tobira (Aug 26, 2015)

GA HEART said:


> If you're looking for a new best girl friend to give money to without drama, I'm available.


I would gladly appreciate you as my new best friend once you help me collect the money owed from my previous best friend :wink2:


----------

