# Wife giving me a year before deciding on divorce -- need advice



## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

My wife and I have been married for over 10 years now. We have 2 kids.

Recently, she told me she is considering divorce. She had considered separation a year ago but told me I ignored her and that it's too late. She is thinking of divorce but will make a decision next year. I'm a bit confused because I don't ever recall having any lengthy discussion on separation.

Here are the points she has made clear:

1. I have an anger issue. When I blow up (I get loud, slam doors, and throw things on the ground or in the sink), my anger is intense and it triggers memories of her abusive father.
2. I am too controlling over spending. I admit, the past me, I was frugal and always complained about every detail on spending. Or more recently, become an alarmist that we are going over budget on a budget category. We recently changed budgeting strategies under her suggestion which is that I give her a fix amount every month, she will manage the spending for the groceries and shopping needs and gets to keep whatever is leftover in the budget. I also took her to a bank to open her own account so that she feels like she has her own bank account and not just our joint accounts.
3. I am too passive. She feels like she is taking care of 3 kids (me being the 3rd kid) and it is exhausting. I don't take any effort to plan vacations, to plan weekend outings, and family activities. This is true and my problem here is that my only few attempts to do so have led to poorly planned trips in the past. I focus a lot on my career. (I need advice here)
4. She feels utter despair when she thinks about the type of person she was before getting married vs the type of person she is now. Before our marriage, she was a cheery, energetic person. She seems drained of energy more and more. And it was especially bad during covid lockdowns. (I also need advice here)
5. She feels I am not supportive of her. Example: When she suggests places to go, she says I don't take the effort to go and she feels unsupported. When she says she wants to spend money on courses for training, I am unsupportive and complain a lot. I think part of this is: in the past, I also provide alternative ideas or tell her we are tight on budget. (Need advice here)

I am currently seeing a therapist for anger management, and found that daily meditation seems to be the most effective.

My wife told me she will give me a year before making a final decision on divorce. We still have physical intimacy, but I always have to take the initiative to ask.

I'd like to ask other members here for advice or if anyone had similar experiences, what I should do and what I should avoid? Thanks in advance


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> My wife and I have been married for over 10 years now. We have 2 kids (a 4-yr old and an 8-yr old).
> 
> Recently, she told me she is considering divorce. She had considered separation a year ago but told me I ignored her and that it's too late. She is thinking of divorce but will make a decision next year. I'm a bit confused because I don't ever recall having any lengthy discussion on separation.
> 
> ...


First bit of advice, don't give her control of if you two will divorce. 
If she's considering it she's planning it already.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> First bit of advice, don't give her control of if you two will divorce.
> If she's considering it she's planning it already.


That's the part I'm uncertain about. She has thought about divorce for a long time but also said she wants to make the marriage work. She gets emotional and breaksdown when she talks about leaving me and says she doesn't want to lose me as a friend. She did say that we will talk about this next year after 1 year of anger therapy and see if it works out


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

So look at those 5 things you listed. Do you yourself believe those 5 things, or are you just telling us what _she_ says? Decide which ones you are willing to change, and which ones not. 

What is meditation teaching you?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

In the past my husband was like you describe. He did yell ( not throw things) and strictly enforce $. Ask yourself if you would enjoy having someone freak out at you? Would you feel loved? Respected? Dh is no longer like this but you bet your ass I was going to live like that forever. No one should


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Your describing emotionally abusive controlling behavior. Women don’t like that


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> That's the part I'm uncertain about. She has thought about divorce for a long time but also said she wants to make the marriage work. She gets emotional and breaksdown when she talks about leaving me and says she doesn't want to lose me as a friend. She did say that we will talk about this next year after 1 year of anger therapy and see if it works out


Just try and protect yourself, too.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Have you ever considered that you may have an anxiety problem?

People that try to control to everything, anger easily when something isn't per their own mental plan, worry about things more for the sake of worrying are often just expressing anxiety. Is your lack of planning activities because you don't feel comfortable in groups or crowds?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

On your list all of them except 4 seem like things you can change if you choose to.

Thing is, she has some weird kind of game going on now. You change all those things and in a year she says nope!

The reason to change those things would be if you feel they’re actually problems and you want to change them because you read your post back and you think about that person and you say, “I don’t want to be that person.”

I’m not getting that from your post.

If you change these things or act a certain way to try and keep her from leaving even though it’s not a change you believe in, it probably won’t work.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> My wife and I have been married for over 10 years now. We have 2 kids (a 4-yr old and an 8-yr old).
> 
> Recently, she told me she is considering divorce. She had considered separation a year ago but told me I ignored her and that it's too late. She is thinking of divorce but will make a decision next year. I'm a bit confused because I don't ever recall having any lengthy discussion on separation.
> 
> ...


So when you ask for advice on what to do, is that in terms of trying to save the marriage?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

While you work on yourself i guarantee that she on the other hand will be planning her exit plan....have you given her a list as well as to the issues you have with her....what makes her god damn perfect....the hell with that...i would give her a list as well and if she won't work on herself, i would tell her that we might as well divorce now....DO NOT ALLOW her to control the narrative.

Honestly she is setting you up for failure and this does not sit well with me nor you. Frankly i would tell her you are right i should work on myself for my next wife.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Does she work or is she a sahm?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Good for you for getting anger management counseling. Do try to address some of her other issues. Remember you are her husband/ partner. Start acting like it. Treat her as an equal & value her.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

She is halfway out the door and five steps ahead of you. While you are planning amendments she is already planning divorce. POOF ….smoke screen


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Honestly, these mostly sound legitimate to me, and you yourself have validated that these are real issues. She clearly loves you or else she'd not be giving you this chance. She wants you, but a better version of you.

My wife did something similar. I found it's very hard to change some things - I did work on others and we've made it work.

1) To me, it sounds like you have impulse issues with anger. Looks like you are addressing the anger issue, that's good. That's very important.
2) You've already addressed the spending issue. Now put that to bed and don't control it anymore. That's done, as long as you don't backtrack. 
3) You need to get your head out of your arse on passiveness. This is VERY unattractive to women. Man up, plan a date, take an active role in your family. If you can't do this, you're toast here or in any other relationship.
4) This is her issue, not yours. You can't do anything about it. But this may be mitigated if you are successful with #1, 2, 3.
5) This is just a byproduct of #2 and #3. 

Fix 1 and 3, don't backtrack on #2, and that's all you can do. 

Your call here on whether you even WANT to do these things, but these are going to be issues with most women. They aren't going to want an overly controlling, angry outbursting, unsupportive/passive partner.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Was given this sane ultimatum. In spring one year, she says she “will decide by Dec. 31“ if she will divorce me. Not getting clues, I asked on New Year’s Eve “what did you decide?” “decide?” she replies. “Yeah, about us,” I say. She had no clue, forgot the threat.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Was given this sane ultimatum. In spring one year, she says she “will decide by Dec. 31“ if she will divorce me. Not getting clues, I asked on New Year’s Eve “what did you decide?” “decide?” she replies. “Yeah, about us,” I say. She had no clue, forgot the threat.


That's funny. Was she drunk when she said it?


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Gabriel said:


> Honestly, these mostly sound legitimate to me, and you yourself have validated that these are real issues. She clearly loves you or else she'd not be giving you this chance. She wants you, but a better version of you.
> 
> My wife did something similar. I found it's very hard to change some things - I did work on others and we've made it work.
> 
> ...


Your wife also said "I am giving this xxx months"? You were ok with that?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> That's funny. Was she drunk when she said it?


Sober as a judge. Pissed off but sober.

never seen her drunk. Later this month, 31 years together


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

Gabriel said:


> Honestly, these mostly sound legitimate to me, and you yourself have validated that these are real issues. She clearly loves you or else she'd not be giving you this chance. She wants you, but a better version of you.
> 
> My wife did something similar. I found it's very hard to change some things - I did work on others and we've made it work.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice. I think these are real issues that I want to work on my end. I can't justify my behavior, but didn't realize my behavior until this late. I wish I could repair the damage done, but it seems late now. 

Passiveness on my end is due to anxiety to groups and social settings. Someone mentioned it, and that person is right. That coupled with my priorities being put into work and unable to plan until last minute.

My wife is a stay at home mom, she doesn't have a job. She did in the past but her wages are not livable by the area's standard. If she wanted to divorce, I would be afraid for her ability to support herself and would want everything for her to go well. 


I know a lot of you are telling me to protect myself, but I love my wife. Even if she wanted to divorce me, I would be heart broken but would understand that it would be the only way for her to live a happier lifestyle. I'm also trying to figure out how to encourage her to become more independent, be financially stable so that if she were to decide to divorce, she wouldn't have to go through so much hardship.


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## Captainjacksparrow84 (10 mo ago)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> Thank you for your advice. I think these are real issues that I want to work on my end. I can't justify my behavior, but didn't realize my behavior until this late. I wish I could repair the damage done, but it seems late now.
> 
> Passiveness on my end is due to anxiety to groups and social settings. Someone mentioned it, and that person is right. That coupled with my priorities being put into work and unable to plan until last minute.
> 
> ...


I think you need to start protecting your assets, and see a lawyer ASAP if for no other reason than to get a consultation. She is taking this year to plan, and get her stuff in order. I'd be using this time to get your stuff in order. She already has one one foot and arm out the door.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

You need to wake up. She gave you a threat, a timeline and you can be sure that she is getting her ducks in a row. And what are you doing? Nothing.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

snowbum said:


> Your describing emotionally abusive controlling behavior. Women don’t like that


This was along the lines of my first thoughts as well: the husband sounds controlling, and I don't blame the wife one bit for not wanting to be on the receiving end of that.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> Thank you for your advice. I think these are real issues that I want to work on my end. I can't justify my behavior, but didn't realize my behavior until this late. I wish I could repair the damage done, but it seems late now.
> 
> Passiveness on my end is due to anxiety to groups and social settings. Someone mentioned it, and that person is right. That coupled with my priorities being put into work and unable to plan until last minute.
> 
> ...


Well now we know why she is waiting a year to divorce you. She needs your income and time to figure out where she will live and how she will support herself.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> Passiveness on my end is due to anxiety to groups and social settings. Someone mentioned it, and that person is right. That coupled with my priorities being put into work and unable to plan until last minute.


Everything you stated sounds like anxiety to me, both general anxiety and social anxiety which often come together.. After kids, my wife was behaving very similar to how you described yourself. You can't let anxiety ruin your marriage... its done enough damage already.

Go talk to your doctor and tell him about how anxiety is affecting your day to day life and get an SSRI. You will not believe the difference. It saved my marriage. You can't fight it on your own... just make the appointment.

You are not a failure because you need a med... it is quite the opposite, it is you doing what you have to do for the benefit of your family... If you don't deal with a situation, for whatever excuses you may have, that is a failure... especially if it breaks up your family.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Your wife is stalling for time. If your marriage is so bad or your wife feels threatened by you what is she waiting for?
Have you considered there is another man or woman that your wife is involved with while you are at work? You might want to do some digging and verify if there is an outside influence motivating your wife toward divorce.

1. you have anger issues. So do many others. You have sought out professional help. If you haven't threatened or visited harm on your wife or your kids what is her concern? 

2.you control spending. You are the only income supporting your family. If she wants to spend the money on frivolous things you should be budgeting and controlling the finances. Families are expensive and too many choose to live beyond their means.

3.You are too passive. interesting. She accuses you of being controlling and passive. Can't be both. Your family in theory seems traditional - one spouse to work one to keep the home. Poorly planned trips aren't enough cause to end a marriage. Does your wife plan on getting a job to easy your burdens so you can properly plan her vacations? I doubt it.

4.she feels utter despair when she thinks about the type of person she was before getting married. So you married a party girl? Marriages and kids require effort. Sounds like your wife expected some sort of fantasy life that required little or no effort. That or she expected you to work full time and keep the home while she does nothing.

5.She feels you are not supportive. What kind of courses does she want to spend money on? Frivolous ones that have no return on investment (make her employable)?

What is your wife's definition of you complaining a lot. Is that you disagreeing with unnecessary spending?

She has thought about divorce for a long time but also wants to make the marriage work. This is as idiotic as her accusing you of being both controlling and too passive. It can't be both it is one or the other.
You have your wife on a pedestal. She takes you for granted. She wants to live a fantasy life and have it both ways - keep you around to pay the bills, look after the kids and the home while she lives her previous life.

There is an imbalance in your marriage to be certain but it is on your wife's end, not yours. Whether or not you choose to see this is up to you.

Your wife is stalling for time. She has set up a goal post of sorts with your 5 points that will move once the year is up. It doesn't matter if you meet all the goals successfully since she is the one that will decide what success looks like for you. Even if you meet them she will add other requirements to buy herself more time/ move the goal post or she will follow through with the divorce.

The first thing you should do is consult with a lawyer to see what divorce looks like for you. It should be your practical assumption that your marriage is over. You should get a separation agreement prepared and in place. Why should you do this? To show a) you are taking your wife seriously and b) many states have required periods of separation before divorce can proceed. May as well make it concurrent with your wife's dead line. If you choose this course you will have to stop and intimacy/sex with your wife. That can be seen as reconciliation by the courts.

I'm sure this seems counter productive to you. It is not. The person willing to walk away has all the power. That right now is your wife. She holds all the cards. You need to start looking out for your own best interests because your wife is only looking out for herself. By the sounds of it she has been right from the start of your marriage. Your wife needs to start looking for employment. Start to live a life where divorce is likely. I doubt she will prefer what awaits her to what she has now but that is usually hindsight after all she had is lost to her. 

She wants to stay friends after divorce. Of course she does you don't put a good plow horse to pasture. She will still expect you to do for her all you do now even if she moves on with another man. That is friendship in her eyes.

You love your wife. The question is does your wife love you or does she care for the lifestyle you provide to her? A good marriage is a partnership. Your wife doesn't sound like a very good partner from what you have shared. 

Ultimately the choice is yours. The more you do proactively means the less you will be blindsided and unprepared.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> Thank you for your advice. I think these are real issues that I want to work on my end. I can't justify my behavior, but didn't realize my behavior until this late. I wish I could repair the damage done, but it seems late now.
> 
> Passiveness on my end is due to anxiety to groups and social settings. Someone mentioned it, and that person is right. That coupled with my priorities being put into work and unable to plan until last minute.
> 
> ...


Remember just because she says something is your fault doesn't make it true. She'll say all kinds of things to try and get your goat, and generate guilt. Don't fall for that trap.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Wives will rarely leave their husbands and be worse off, most will have a plan B.
Are you sure your wife is not having an affair, perhaps making a plan to leave for another guy waiting for when the time is right or perhaps a married man and waiting for him to leave his wife.
It maybe wise to discretely keep a watch on your wife`s activities, what she does online, how often she is on her phone texting and where she goes and who with. 
Otherwise if not careful, she will leave you and you`ll lose the marital home, your kids and be stung for alimony and child support including only given visitation to your kids on her terms.
I know it happened to me. 
My advice, visit a lawyer even if just for legal advice at the moment.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

uwe.blab said:


> Your wife also said "I am giving this xxx months"? You were ok with that?


No, more like, you are running out of time.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

All of the things that are troubling your wife, are worthwhile to change in yourself - even if you end up divorcing. It sounds like you’re open to seeing her points and wanting to change. But I’m not a fan of ultimatums. But, she may want to see if you’ll change and improve …

That said, check your phone bill just in case. It’s possible that she’s grown tired of how you’re treating her which is understandable at the same time, possible that she may be opening up to another guy about her marital woes. There’s always that guy/woman from the past or neighbor etc willing to lend an ear to vulnerable unhappily married people. 

Change because the things she mentions are worth changing to improve your own character. But keep your eyes open. Definitely seek legal advice just in case things go south sooner than you were anticipating.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> My wife and I have been married for over 10 years now. We have 2 kids (a 4-yr old and an 8-yr old).
> 
> *Recently, she told me she is considering divorce*. She had considered separation a year ago but told me I ignored her and that *it's too late. She is thinking of divorce but will make a decision next year*.........
> 
> ...





BlueWhiteClouds said:


> Thank you for your advice. I think *these are real issues that I want to work on my end*. I can't justify my behavior, but didn't realize my behavior until this late. I wish I could repair the damage done, but it seems late now.
> 
> Passiveness on my end is due to anxiety to groups and social settings. Someone mentioned it, and that person is right. That coupled with my priorities being put into work and unable to plan until last minute.
> 
> ...


A few comments. First she does love you enough that she has told you specific problem and that if they aren't fixed she will divorce you. She is giving you a chance, which is much more than most divorced dads get. They often find out that their is a problem when handed the divorce papers and told to move out. 

You know what the problems are that she has identified. My suggestion is that you sit down with her and ask her for her help on each of the 5 areas. It sounds like you have already taken steps on several of them as they do seem to be legitimate concerns on her part. Get some counseling (over and above anger management) on the other issues as well. Figure out ways that she can help you. For example, in issue 5 perhaps she can provide you with some more suggestions of things that wants to do or places she wants to go in a way that you hear her. Ask her to sit down with you and write down a few of these and then schedule a time to see what you have done toward doing them. Ask for her to give you some that do not need to be done immediately. Perhaps taking the kids to a water park, while booking her into a spa, and then all meeting up for a kid friendly dinner restaurant, with the kids are worn out could be something you arrange. Maybe do some internet research on a women's motivational seminar series (which could help her with issue 4) and present it to her as something you will support her doing.

Now as to being too passive (issue 3), ask for her help. Tell her you are going to work on being less passive, but you also don't want to come off on too controlling as you have been about money. Tell her it will take time, that you will work on it, but you need her help in identifying when you are being too passive.

I honestly don't know if these are "sh#t tests" she is putting you through or if you really do have a chance of saving your marriage. She may have already decided it is over. It is clear that you love her.

However, assume for a moment that she does divorce you and there is nothing you can do to stop that. What is the best course of action for you? I think that the best course of action so you can find and succeed at your next relationship is to make the changes she has identified and you feel are appropriate. Work hard on making those changes so you will be a better partner to your wife or the next woman in your life. In identifying those issues, she has done you a huge favor and given you a time without huge change in which to modify your behavior. Take advantage of that gift.

Now you need someone to know some sense into you. I understand that you love her, that she is the mother of your children, etc............but.......you are being very foolish saying things like "......*so that if she were to decide to divorce, she wouldn't have to go through so much hardship.*...."

Dear Blue White Clouds, divorce involves hardship, that is why you both need to try to avoid it. Suggest marriage counseling to her. Don't make divorce more attractive to her by figuring out how to minimize the hardship. That hardship is probably the only reason she hasn't walked out the door already. By all means if it comes to divorce try to make it as pleasant as possible, however, it will involve plenty of hardship for you, her, and your children.

Good luck to you.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

Young at Heart said:


> A few comments. First she does love you enough that she has told you specific problem and that if they aren't fixed she will divorce you. She is giving you a chance, which is much more than most divorced dads get. They often find out that their is a problem when handed the divorce papers and told to move out.
> 
> You know what the problems are that she has identified. My suggestion is that you sit down with her and ask her for her help on each of the 5 areas. It sounds like you have already taken steps on several of them as they do seem to be legitimate concerns on her part. Get some counseling (over and above anger management) on the other issues as well. Figure out ways that she can help you. For example, in issue 5 perhaps she can provide you with some more suggestions of things that wants to do or places she wants to go in a way that you hear her. Ask her to sit down with you and write down a few of these and then schedule a time to see what you have done toward doing them. Ask for her to give you some that do not need to be done immediately. Perhaps taking the kids to a water park, while booking her into a spa, and then all meeting up for a kid friendly dinner restaurant, with the kids are worn out could be something you arrange. Maybe do some internet research on a women's motivational seminar series (which could help her with issue 4) and present it to her as something you will support her doing.
> 
> ...


thank you. This was the most well-written response I've read. I am sadly an unromantic brute. This suggestion never occurred to me:

Perhaps taking the kids to a water park, while booking her into a spa, and then all meeting up for a kid friendly dinner restaurant, with the kids are worn out could be something you arrange.

I had never thought about giving my wife alone time as part of planning. I think logically and rationally so I never thought about doing things that didn't involve her being part of the fun and let her be solo and recharge/de-stress from being a mom. My wife jokes that I have aspbergers and unable to relate to human emotions. I don't know if it's true or not but there is a disconnect for me to understand other's feelings and take those into account in my actions sometimes.

I honestly don't know what I will do if I am divorced. Meeting my wife was more or less of a happy/fated accident. This is probably something I need to think about -- how to better live my life even if alone.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Sooooo.....

All this time, she took it on the chin, said nothing, and now you have to do all this "work" on yourself?

Her financial stress won't go down when she gets divorced, unless she can land a loaded guy that wants to carry her...with two little kids and all the other crap, probably not...

Women often confuse men for being controlling, (especially when it comes to finances) but the truth is some of the things could have been just wisely being frugal, maybe she would have no retirement savings and a ton of debt, if you did it her way, but I don't know...

What was your sex life like leading up to this?


Eh, me personally would have just divorced her on the spot...Sounds like she is just stalling this because she is too scared of the unknown...you could do everything on her list, stand on your head, etc, and my guess is it wont matter....*She doesn't like you anymore, so she is picking you apart, to make you the bad guy and relieve her guilt over initiating the divorce, especially with kids involved....*...Its a typical and well used technique...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> My wife and I have been married for over 10 years now. We have 2 kids (a 4-yr old and an 8-yr old).
> 
> Recently, she told me she is considering divorce. She had considered separation a year ago but told me I ignored her and that it's too late. She is thinking of divorce but will make a decision next year. I'm a bit confused because I don't ever recall having any lengthy discussion on separation.
> 
> ...


That is a lot of changes you would be expected to make. I don't think you'd be successful for very long, even though you might try hard. 

Of course, these would be dealbreakers for a lot of people, so it might be a good idea to let this one go but start working on at least some of them one by one. Good luck.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> thank you. This was the most well-written response I've read. I am sadly an unromantic brute. This suggestion never occurred to me:
> 
> Perhaps taking the kids to a water park, while booking her into a spa, and then all meeting up for a kid friendly dinner restaurant, with the kids are worn out could be something you arrange.
> 
> ...


yeah k*ssing her a**. That always works. 

Sounds like she needs a year to get her stuff together to me. Otherwise she would be gone, post haste.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> Sooooo.....
> 
> All this time, she took it on the chin, said nothing, and now you have to do all this "work" on yourself?
> 
> ...


sex life was okay for the both of us (like 3-4 times per month), and has gone up recently like 3 times a week. We are both more physically fit than before


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## May16 (5 mo ago)

ultimatums are usually given out of desperation and with the hope to save the relationship. if she was so careless and money thirsty as suggested, she would simply have an affair or she wouldnt have mentioned anything about a planned divorce.

i really wonder how strangers who do not know your wife suggest she is the bad one and the one deserving divorce 🙁. as a woman i say your wife has legit points. the anger issues sound scary. controlling finances like that makes the woman in your life feel like she is not important for you enough to show some pride in providing for the family. and being passive and emotionally cold is the nail in the coffin. she may feel really unimportant.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Go online and check your phone bill.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> Go online and check your phone bill.


I did some sleuthing and I know she isn't cheating on me physically. Uncertain about emotional affairs (chatting)


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


Longtime Hubby said:



Was given this sane ultimatum. In spring one year, she says she “will decide by Dec. 31“ if she will divorce me. Not getting clues, I asked on New Year’s Eve “what did you decide?” “decide?” she replies. “Yeah, about us,” I say. She had no clue, forgot the threat.

Click to expand...

*Jeez. Why on earth would you stay with someone who disrespected you to that level? Telling you she'll decide at the end of the year if you're good enough to stick around or not?

I would have been packing my bags the next day. Screw that.

OP, find your dignity. You have a woman constantly telling you what a failure you are and how she wants to leave you.

I repeat - find your dignity.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

When a woman mentions divorce in a serious way like this……… it’s over.

When you said “so that if she were to decide to divorce, she wouldn't have to go through so much hardship.....", I knew there was little chance of helping you.
Only you snd her know if you are indeed a crappy husband. One thing is for sure though, you do all the earning of money and putting food on the table. I think you are so scared of losing her that you have taken on this mentality of everything being your fault so you can try to fix you and thereby fix your marriage. 

Looking from the outside:
I suspect your wife is lazy and is chronically unhappy and blames it all on you. When she monkey branches to another man, she’ll still blame everything on you.

My advice is to fix the areas you know you are weak in, and also start demanding your lazy wife gets a job and starts taking some of the heat off you. I’ll bet she’ll be a lot more frugal with the money she earns rather than yours.

Start bring a good man. Do NOT start babying her and giving her a bunch of extra attention. It will drive her further away. Start being a man that you know other women would want.
If she doesn’t start changing her attitude toward you, divorce her. Get an attorney. You need one. Marco gave you sound advice.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Jeez. Why on earth would you stay with someone who disrespected you to that level? Telling you she'll decide at the end of the year if you're good enough to stick around or not?
> 
> I would have been packing my bags the next day. Screw that.
> 
> ...


Cuz I knew she was bluffing. Knew she’d not pull out the D card. I still
have the winning hand. It was said in heat of moment. “find your dignity”? Please. I was laughing inside. she has never told me I was a failure. How did u come up with that?


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> When a woman mentions divorce in a serious way like this……… it’s over.
> 
> When you said “so that if she were to decide to divorce, she wouldn't have to go through so much hardship.....", I knew there was little chance of helping you.
> Only you snd her know if you are indeed a crappy husband. One thing is for sure though, you do all the earning of money and putting food on the table. I think you are so scared of losing her that you have taken on this mentality of everything being your fault so you can try to fix you and thereby fix your marriage.
> ...


You're right about a lot of this too. Thanks. I am not a man with a lot of words and hate explaining myself.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

None of the men commenting on the violent temper, disparaging of wife’s goals, and tightwad money habits? They think these behaviors are typical?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

snowbum said:


> None of the men commenting on the violent temper, disparaging of wife’s goals, and tightwad money habits? They think these behaviors are typical?


The temper he’s seeing a therapist for. Wife’s goals? Being a housewife all day is a life goal? Maybe for some. Few are good at it. I greatly admire the ones that are.
Tightwad money habits? Yeah, when one is the sole breadwinner and has a wife that stays home all day with lots of time on her hands to invent ways to spend money—/ that’s a recipe for accusations of tightwad, controlling behavior. Most likely he has to or they’d be destitute. 

She DOES not work. Then complains about him not planning vacations? What the heck does she do all day?

No, he works supporting the family. She can organize the vacations, especially since she doesn’t like the way he does it.

“so that if she were to decide to divorce, she wouldn't have to go through so much hardship....."
That one quote says everything about OP and his passive, put-her-on-a-pedestal, doormat attitude. He doesn’t even realize that once he’s not paying her way, she’ll be down the road with another man and won’t even remember his name. Jim WHO?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Cynical attitude


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

snowbum said:


> None of the men commenting on the violent temper, disparaging of wife’s goals, and tightwad money habits? They think these behaviors are typical?


A lot of women I know are living very large off the fruits of their husbands( or fathers) "tightwad" attitudes about money....too bad a lot of those tightwads now pushing daisies...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yep, by your own words you yell, throw things and break things. If your wife came on this forum we'd tell her violent out burst and verbal abuse like this usually escalates and to get out. We'd ask her if this is the kind of examples she wants her kids to think is normal.

I don' t know if you wife has given up but probably. I don't know if she may be having an emotional affair or looking to monkey branch.

What I do know is that you don't seem to take ownership of this list.
Do you think her complaints are accurate?
Do you have an internal desire to do better or you just want to convince her to stay?

Additionally how exactly is the money in your family. Cause it seems like you control everything, she has nothing. Even if she wanted to leave she'd have to be afraid of your temper and she has no money what so ever and if she spends to much on a shirt then you get upset.

Why wouldn't there be a household budget?
Also from your description, you never take the kids. So working is great and being a provider is great but by your description she has to work every waking hour and you work what 40 hours?

Someone prior to this alluded your wife was lazy. Is she lazy?

Why would you not support her getting a certificate or more education? Are you trying to isolate her or make sure that she can't get a good paying job?

Women need so much more than a house and basket of food. How do you date her, connect with her?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

This. How does a woman start working earning decent money with no support from the spouse? You sound like you scream and intimidate her.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

IN the US, NO ONE has control over someone else's ability to earn money. There has never been more money paid to nobodies in the history of this country, than there is right now. Between WFH and the internet you don't even have to take off your pajamas, let alone commute.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Lostinthought61 said:


> While you work on yourself i guarantee that she on the other hand will be planning her exit plan....have you given her a list as well as to the issues you have with her....what makes her god damn perfect....the hell with that...i would give her a list as well and if she won't work on herself, i would tell her that we might as well divorce now....DO NOT ALLOW her to control the narrative.
> 
> Honestly she is setting you up for failure and this does not sit well with me nor you. Frankly i would tell her you are right i should work on myself for my next wife.


this !!!!! She's no angel. You are right. Don't let her control the narrative


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> The temper he’s seeing a therapist for. Wife’s goals? Being a housewife all day is a life goal? Maybe for some. Few are good at it. I greatly admire the ones that are.
> Tightwad money habits? Yeah, when one is the sole breadwinner and has a wife that stays home all day with lots of time on her hands to invent ways to spend money—/ that’s a recipe for accusations of tightwad, controlling behavior. Most likely he has to or they’d be destitute.
> 
> She DOES not work. Then complains about him not planning vacations? What the heck does she do all day?
> ...


amen


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Young at Heart said:


> Now as to being too passive (issue 3), ask for her help. Tell her you are going to work on being less passive, but you also don't want to come off on too controlling as you have been about money. Tell her it will take time, that you will work on it, but you need her help in identifying when you are being too passive.


NOOOOOOO!
While I agree with much of what you wrote overall, this approach will be completely counterproductive and tank any respect/attraction she may still have for him.

That approach itself is completely passive and subservient.
Basically - wife/woman, please help teach me and coach me on how to be a better, stronger, less passive man. That will simply dry her up and disgust most women even more. She doesn’t wanna teach him, she expects him to figure it out.

Women respect confidence, strength and leadership. They despise (and are turned off by) week, passive men who need her validation to operate.
This approach will only disgust her more. She doesn’t want a man to ask her to help him be less passive, that’s ****ing pathetic. She wants him to figure the hell out himself and just do it. She wants him to figure it out and start leading.

And the fact that she’s accusing him of being controlling, abusive and passive at the same time is absolute ********.
She doesn’t respect him and is absolutely rewriting the entire marital narrative to justify her exit.

I’m not suggesting that OP doesn’t have a lot of work to do on himself - but he’s not controlling, abusive and passive at the same time.
She’s just setting him up to take all the responsibility, while denying him any authority.

0P, do not let her put you in this position.
By all means, work on yourself. You should’ve been doing that already.
But you need to be improving for YOU, not just for her. YOU need to do your own self-assessment based on your vision, values and principles.
And based on that introspection, as well as her input, YOU need to decide what and how you want to improve yourself as a man, husband, father, etc.

And YOU need to absolutely take control of the situation and this entire narrative.
You need to sit down with her and take ownership and leadership of this situation from a position of strength.
Tell her that you recognize your shortcomings and mistakes, along with hers. You both need to do better in this marriage, and you recognize that you have not been effectively leading and nurturing the marriage.
Tell her that you will be taking ownership on your end and that you’ve recognize a number of areas where you will be improving yourself - for you and her.
But she’s not off the hook either. It needs to be a joint effort.

You will not jump through her hoops and chase after her approval, on her timetable, with the threat of divorce hanging over your head. That’s just giving her all of the power in your marriage and creating a very bad situation where you have no power or authority in the relationship, she does, and yet you bear all of the responsibility for fixing things to a point where she deems it acceptable to stay with you. That dynamic is toxic, destructive and it will destroy you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

snowbum said:


> None of the men commenting on the violent temper, disparaging of wife’s goals, and tightwad money habits? They think these behaviors are typical?


I think in my response I basically suggest he read his points (except 4) and decide if he wants to be a man that is described that way. I thought it was clear that I was suggesting it’s not ideal.

Throwing temper tantrums and yelling especially at a woman is completely out of order in my opinion.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Have you posted about this recently? Under another name?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think in my response I basically suggest he read his points (except 4) and decide if he wants to be a man that is described that way. I thought it was clear that I was suggesting it’s not ideal.
> 
> Throwing temper tantrums and yelling especially at a woman is completely out of order in my opinion.


Yeah. Most women find mens anger scary.

I'm not an easy woman to intimidate and my bf is as gentle as they come, but sometimes he'll get aggravated about something and start cursing and raising his voice a little. It's never directed at me...he would talk to me that way....but he's a big guy and I still find it a little unnerving.

I don't say anything because it's not common and we all get aggravated, but it does put me on edge. I highly doubt he feels the same way when I get annoyed by stuff.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yep, by your own words you yell, throw things and break things. If your wife came on this forum we'd tell her violent out burst and verbal abuse like this usually escalates and to get out. We'd ask her if this is the kind of examples she wants her kids to think is normal.
> 
> I don' t know if you wife has given up but probably. I don't know if she may be having an emotional affair or looking to monkey branch.
> 
> ...


How does she support him? Clean the house? Cook a meal? Have a kind word for him when he comes home from work?
Date her?
He’s married to her. They should naturally BOTH plan fun activities to do together.
It seems like some people think a man is responsible for everything. It’s supposed to be a team effort.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I'm also trying to figure out how to encourage her to become more independent, be financially stable so that if she were to decide to divorce, she wouldn't have to go through so much hardship.


That is not your job, nor should you be focusing on it. You have your own issues to deal with. She needs to figure out hers. 



Evinrude58 said:


> The temper he’s seeing a therapist for. Wife’s goals? Being a housewife all day is a life goal? Maybe for some. Few are good at it. I greatly admire the ones that are.
> Tightwad money habits? Yeah, when one is the sole breadwinner and has a wife that stays home all day with lots of time on her hands to invent ways to spend money—/ that’s a recipe for accusations of tightwad, controlling behavior. Most likely he has to or they’d be destitute.


Nothing the OP said indicated that that is the case. In fact, I think they came up with a pretty good solution for it. She has a set amount of money to run the household, and he stays out of how she is allocating it. 



Evinrude58 said:


> She DOES not work. Then complains about him not planning vacations? What the heck does she do all day?


She does work. She's busy raising their family. No vacation days, no sick days, and on call 24/7. 

And for all you saying that you can't be passive and controlling...of course, you can. The most obvious form is passive aggressiveness. And anyway, the type of passiveness she described was more about him not taking any responsibility in regard to family involvement. I can't tell exactly what the OP's wife wants, but my guess is that she wants OP to be more aware of the routines in the household, learn them, take part in some of them, and eventually take over some of them. Don't ask what needs to be done. Notice it, and then do it before she notices it. And don't look for accolades for doing them either. Just hold up your part of the marriage, and making money is not enough. You have to actually be engaged with your kids and your wife when you get home. 

But that said, I don't know that I disagree with the posters who say it might be too late. And I also don't know if you should fix everything on the list she gave you. Some of them may be personality based (i.e., social anxiety). There is a balance to meeting your partner's needs while still being true to yourself. 

And instead of worrying about her if you two divorce, worry about yourself. Work on the skills you need to be a better person, a better father, and a better partner. But don't try to change who you fundamentally are. That will just make you miserable, and you guys will divorce anyway.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah. Most women find mens anger scary.
> 
> I'm not an easy woman to intimidate and my bf is as gentle as they come, but sometimes he'll get aggravated about something and start cursing and raising his voice a little. It's never directed at me...he would talk to me that way....but he's a big guy and I still find it a little unnerving.
> 
> I don't say anything because it's not common and we all get aggravated, but it does put me on edge. I highly doubt he feels the same way when I get annoyed by stuff.


Its definitely different. I mean, you even know how to defend yourself and such but there’s just such a difference between a big man and a normal woman.

I don’t think I have ever raised my voice at a woman period. As a big guy myself I am a gentle giant up until the point where I need not to be.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> My wife and I have been married for over 10 years now. We have 2 kids (a 4-yr old and an 8-yr old).
> 
> Recently, she told me she is considering divorce. She had considered separation a year ago but told me I ignored her and that it's too late. She is thinking of divorce but will make a decision next year. I'm a bit confused because I don't ever recall having any lengthy discussion on separation.
> 
> ...


your marriage does not sound like a partnership at all but a prison. Why are you so angry and controlling? you are going to lose it all if you don't sort yourself out first. Work on yourself regardless of whether you divorce or not. No person can control the feelings of another person, you can only be the best version of yourself. Do not change to make your wife happy, that is a recipe for disaster, change because you yourself see the need for change. Your wife can either take it or leave it but you will have become a better person. 
Anger in a marriage is very very damaging. Words spoken in anger cannot be forgotten with simply apologies.
You do not sound very engaged with her in the marriage, if she must do everything including childcare, housework, organizing your lives, etc. She doesn't need a banker, she needs a husband!
I can see why she wants out of the marriage, if what you have written above is true of you, it is no wonder.
I am surprised she still has sex with you, so she obviously still cares about you alot. Time for you to undo the damage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I am quite amazed at the responses of (primarily) males to this OP. Many of you skim over the fact that this is an emotionally abusive marriage by all appearances. You mention, get your ducks in a row, she's biding her time, planning her exit, etc. What the hell is wrong with you all? This woman feels despair, he is controlling, angry, loud, abusive, passive aggressive, controls money, controls her personal development (she wants to better herself with courses) apparently shows no engagement in family matters, planning etc. A woman in this environment slowly dies, slowly disappears (that is why she is making comments about who she was and who she is now). Woman blossom when they are cherished, she is not cherished but crushed, she doesn't even have her own money ffs! Her spirit has been crushed and walked all over. The lack of empathy and understanding is appalling and the comments the majority of you have made show the lack of insight. She is hanging on because she still loves her husband and is hoping for change, cause she does not want to destroy the family.
OP you listen to the majority of the responses here, you will be divorced! However, you will have 50% custody of the kids, with no-one to organize anything for you,. Meanwhile your wife can get a good job, have her own money and 50% time to meet others, make friends and live a life without anyone controlling her. Win win for all.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

aine said:


> I am quite amazed at the responses of (primarily) males to this OP. Many of you skim over the fact that this is an emotionally abusive marriage by all appearances. You mention, get your ducks in a row, she's biding her time, planning her exit, etc. What the hell is wrong with you all? This woman feels despair, he is controlling, angry, loud, abusive, passive aggressive, controls money, controls her personal development (she wants to better herself with courses) apparently shows no engagement in family matters, planning etc. A woman in this environment slowly dies, slowly disappears (that is why she is making comments about who she was and who she is now). Woman blossom when they are cherished, she is not cherished but crushed, she doesn't even have her own money ffs! Her spirit has been crushed and walked all over. The lack of empathy and understanding is appalling and the comments the majority of you have made show the lack of insight. She is hanging on because she still loves her husband and is hoping for change, cause she does not want to destroy the family.
> OP you listen to the majority of the responses here, you will be divorced! However, you will have 50% custody of the kids, with no-one to organize anything for you,. Meanwhile your wife can get a good job, have her own money and 50% time to meet others, make friends and live a life without anyone controlling her. Win win for all.


I only told my wife's side of the story, but I understand her points of view. Thank you for your perspective.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

aine said:


> your marriage does not sound like a partnership at all but a prison. Why are you so angry and controlling? you are going to lose it all if you don't sort yourself out first. Work on yourself regardless of whether you divorce or not. No person can control the feelings of another person, you can only be the best version of yourself. Do not change to make your wife happy, that is a recipe for disaster, change because you yourself see the need for change. Your wife can either take it or leave it but you will have become a better person.
> Anger in a marriage is very very damaging. Words spoken in anger cannot be forgotten with simply apologies.
> You do not sound very engaged with her in the marriage, if she must do everything including childcare, housework, organizing your lives, etc. She doesn't need a banker, she needs a husband!
> I can see why she wants out of the marriage, if what you have written above is true of you, it is no wonder.
> I am surprised she still has sex with you, so she obviously still cares about you alot. Time for you to undo the damage.


sigh.. i am not overall an angry person. Most of the time, I am pretty calm and able to hold my cool. The few times I've blown up (last time was 3 years ago) seems to be used as examples every time. But part of the problem is that she is basing her story from all the bad parts of the marriage.

anyway, I only came here for advice, but please don't judge me. I did not tell my side of the story and I feel trying to justify the hardship she faced is just wrong.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Start bring a good man. Do NOT start babying her and giving her a bunch of extra attention. It will drive her further away. Start being a man that you know other women would want.
> If she doesn’t start changing her attitude toward you, divorce her. Get an attorney. You need one. Marco gave you sound advice.


This is some of the most sound advice I've ever read on this forum. @BlueWhiteClouds this is exactly what you need to do. Always seek to be a better man. Don't just do what she tells you to do.

The only thing I wanna add is you should see a divorce lawyer ASAP. I've lived through and seen enough scenarios like this before to know that she is already laying the groundwork for her divorce plans. The idea is, she keeps you busy trying to "work on your marriage" and basically just doing what she wants while she prepares for her exit. She likely needs time before she can actually leave. One day while you're busy working on things, she will sucker punch you with divorce papers. I'm not saying you should divorce her right now, but you should be at least prepared in case that sucker punch gets thrown at you. This is advice I was given that I should have taken.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

"Controlling" is just a buzz word a lot of weakling women use to attack any guy that isn't a complete lay down. Just ignore that bull crap. Slavery has been abolished for a while now. 

Armchair psychoanalysts will call you a narcissist as well. Get ready for that, too. 

If you feel it's worth saving and don't want to blow your kids lives up, then tweak what you think you need to tweak, but don't lose who you are in the process. Don't be intimidated by so called ultimatums, deadlines,, and hit lists...they are petty and punitive. . That's nonsense. She has a right to voice grievances but doing it in that manner won't be well received by too many guys I know. 

It's a good sign that you are still intimate as much as you claim. Sex is often a very good indicator of hope that it can be salvaged. I would have guessed that you were sleeping on the couch already. 

Good luck either way and always be prepared.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> "Controlling" is just a buzz word a lot of weakling women use to attack any guy that isn't a complete lay down. Just ignore that bull crap. Slavery has been abolished for a while now.
> 
> Armchair psychanalysts will call you a narcissist as well. Get ready for that, too.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate your perspective. I will visit an attorney to see what I should be prepared with. Do you have any advice on how to avoid triggering suspicions if she has access to credit card transactions?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I really appreciate your perspective. I will visit an attorney to see what I should be prepared with. Do you have any advice on how to avoid triggering suspicions if she has access to credit card transactions?




Attorneys are well aware of the need for privacy and confidentiality. Explain it to him/her and they will guide you in the appropriate measures. In your case I would absolutely seek a female attorney, if all else equal.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> sigh.. i am not overall an angry person. Most of the time, I am pretty calm and able to hold my cool. The few times I've blown up (last time was 3 years ago) seems to be used as examples every time. But part of the problem is that she is basing her story from all the bad parts of the marriage.
> 
> anyway, I only came here for advice, but please don't judge me. I did not tell my side of the story and I feel trying to justify the hardship she faced is just wrong.


You dont get that around this place - people get off by judging others based upon their personnel experiences which ends up biasing us all (me included of course). If the last time you blew up was 3 years then I dont get it. From what you initially stated it seemed like it was all the time. If she is giving you a year before deciding on divorcing you there might be the possibility that she is taking this time and wondering if the replacement she has for you already in place would work out. Suspect she is testing the waters and you dont know it. Good luck.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I really appreciate your perspective. I will visit an attorney to see what I should be prepared with. Do you have any advice on how to avoid triggering suspicions if she has access to credit card transactions?


Almost all initial consultations are free of charge. When you are ready to go expect about a 7K retainer fee. Do not select a divorce attorney based on an ad on the radio or tv. In nearly all areas there is a small group of them that specialize in this and they all know one another. They do not need to advertise. Make sure you have one of them.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

It’s alarming here how many people don’t think he is abusive, and how she is using him for a year. 

I can also understand why she hasn’t worked and why he won’t change and won’t let her go. Pretty bold to admit neglect & withholding (yes, not ever wanting to do things with your spouse is as bad as rejecting sex), as well as explosive episodes. 

She’s not biding her time for a year, or using him for a year. She’s been beaten down and STILL loves you and thinks you’ll get better. 

Question for you OP: do you have these rage episodes at your place of work? Have you ever had one of these rage episodes at work, ever?

When a friend or neighbour or anyone else invites you somewhere, do you always say no every time?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DudeInProgress said:


> NOOOOOOO!
> While I agree with much of what you wrote overall, this approach will be completely counterproductive and tank any respect/attraction she may still have for him.
> 
> That approach itself is completely passive and subservient.
> ...


One of the things I found was that when I changed myself and when I helped support my wife with changes she made in herself, was how important positive feedback was. The other party didn't have to make the change or say do this, but having positive feedback for making a positive change was very helpful in cementing the change and making it permanent..


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

snowbum said:


> This. How does a woman start working earning decent money with no support from the spouse? You sound like you scream and intimidate her.


The Domestic violence laws might be different in the USA, we’re soon going to criminalise Coercive control in another state in Australia. 

This case would be an interesting one before the courts here. 

Men can quickly panic and pat a buddy and call the wife lazy and she should get a job. So it’s not surprising you’re seeing a lot of support here. 

I can tell you that some of the most controlled women are the ones without a job. 

It’s all part of a plan that can sometimes eventually end in murder. (There’ll be lots of backlash here for me saying that). 

The police do a great job here in our country, the courts are just catching up. 

I don’t like what I hear in this story at all. And to be honest I’m concerned for some of the ex-wives and current wives of a few back-patters here. The underlying rage and hatred of women is more alarming than the poster’s self-confessed control-tactics.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> The Domestic violence laws might be different in the USA, we’re soon going to criminalise Coercive control in another state in Australia.
> 
> This case would be an interesting one before the courts here.
> 
> ...


You just compared the guy to a murderer because he has anger issues. This is what the OP said he does: _"*1. I have an anger issue. When I blow up (I get loud, slam doors, and throw things on the ground or in the sink), my anger is intense and it triggers memories of her abusive father."*_ Yes, he obviously needs to work on that, and a few of the men here, including myself have said he needs to work on being a better man. That's part of it. Nowhere did he say anything about hurting his wife or children.

So whether she gets a job or not, OP is still bad, eh? Makes sense.

I can't speak for all men here but I give advice based on my own personal observations. My ex wife did the same thing to me, gave me "time to work on our marriage" while she got her ducks in a row and got out while I was trying to make changes. Happened to one of my friends too, and she put him out of his own place while he was ring shopping for her. This isn't an uncommon tactic. The purpose of this forum is to support and advise people who post here, not compare them to murderers.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm surprised your wife is still having sex with you.

EDIT: actually, if she is planning her exit, she would do that.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I also took her to a bank to open her own account


Is she a child?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Noooo, not comparing him to a murderer. Yes, women in these situations eventually have to get their ducks in a row. Now if she’s safe to leave and has clearly indicated that she will, he will get some help or let her go. Some women are most in danger when they are planning to leave, or have left.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> She is halfway out the door and five steps ahead of you. While you are planning amendments she is already planning divorce. POOF ….smoke screen


With any of you two's money she can take.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> I'm surprised your wife is still having sex with you.
> 
> EDIT: actually, if she is planning her exit, she would do that.


That said, if she is planning her exit, what's the point in announcing to her husband? She would just leave when ready. Maybe she is really waiting to see if he can change his ways.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Op you never answered if she’s the lazy SAHM painted by some or if she actually does most things all the time except ‘work’.

Or why you didn’t support her taking classes. Did she want a job? Do you want her to work or stay home?


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I really appreciate your perspective. I will visit an attorney to see what I should be prepared with. Do you have any advice on how to avoid triggering suspicions if she has access to credit card transactions?


What suspicion would you like to avoid? Your wife has told you divorce is on the table. She gave you a deadline no less. Going to see a lawyer is only natural. You owe her no explanation. She opened this door. You are merely seeing what your options are.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I really appreciate your perspective. I will visit an attorney to see what I should be prepared with. Do you have any advice on how to avoid triggering suspicions if she has access to credit card transactions?


So what if she does.
You should be planning and acting to separate your finances now now now.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> sigh.. i am not overall an angry person. Most of the time, I am pretty calm and able to hold my cool. The few times I've blown up (last time was 3 years ago) seems to be used as examples every time. But part of the problem is that she is basing her story from all the bad parts of the marriage.
> 
> anyway, I only came here for advice, but please don't judge me. I did not tell my side of the story and I feel trying to justify the hardship she faced is just wrong.


Yeah, I think you're okay. Your wife on the other hand... yikes. I'm a little late to the thread, but I'd quibble with the below post:



snowbum said:


> Your describing emotionally abusive controlling behavior. Women don’t like that


She used threats of divorce to force him to go to therapy by himself (no joint marital counseling???), get on medication, get complete control of their finances, provide a separate nest egg for herself (but not him?), and continues to string him along for a year to decide if she's going to keep him or not? 

Maybe he is emotionally abusive and controlling, but she certainly is as well.

He should be putting her behavior - particularly how she's managing their finances now - under as much scrutiny as she's put him under.

Threats of divorce are as much a manipulative control technique as mental or physical abuse.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Yeah, I think you're okay. Your wife on the other hand... yikes. I'm a little late to the thread, but I'd quibble with the below post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ummmm she isn't in charge of all their finances now. She requested a monthly budget for the household and to not have to justify each purchase is how I read his paragraph.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I did some sleuthing and I know she isn't cheating on me physically. Uncertain about emotional affairs (chatting)


how could you possibly 'know' she isn't cheating physically and be 'uncertain' about EA or chatting with another guy?


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> It’s alarming here how many people don’t think he is abusive, and how she is using him for a year.
> 
> I can also understand why she hasn’t worked and why he won’t change and won’t let her go. Pretty bold to admit neglect & withholding (yes, not ever wanting to do things with your spouse is as bad as rejecting sex), as well as explosive episodes.
> 
> ...


No. I never had rage episodes at work. I almost never get angry, and even if I do (say children pushing my buttons), the most I'll do is yell at them to cut it out and stop. If they continue, then I'll take a privilege away and if they still continue, I send them to their room or make them stand in the corner for 2 minutes. The worst is I tell them I will spank their hands if they continue and then spank their hands if they challenge.
And yes, I pretty much do all the house chores except laundry and shopping.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

To me the odd thing here is verbalizing the timeline. Here are my problems with you (and a problem with her) and you must somehow address these by this date.

What if they’re addressed in a month and you have a year?

When I told my wife I wasn’t happy and we were headed towards divorce I had a time in mind (3 mos) but I didn’t tell her it was 3 months. I wanted her to change then.

The way this is presented it’s like quitting your job and giving a year notice. Only the most sad and lame employer would tolerate something like that.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> ummmm she isn't in charge of all their finances now. She requested a monthly budget for the household and to not have to justify each purchase is how I read his paragraph.


maybe. If she really is prudently managing their finances now, and not squirreling away cash toward her own separate future, then I'd concede the point. 

that's not the only thing she's done I'd consider controlling and manipulative here. 

Sounds like he's jumped through all the hoops she put in front of him. Is she going to be happy now and let him know she's as committed to the marriage as he is? I suppose only time will tell.

In my experience, divorce (and related threats, like gatekeeping access to kids, or ruining the other financially) are just other forms of control and abuse by lousy partners. 

Very different story if clear, objective goals are laid out, like "Stop drinking or I am leaving." I don't get the sense from his posts she's being up front about this. 

"You need counseling" instead of "we need counseling" is another red flag.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Is she a child?


No. She just hates doing anythign related to finances herself.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Op you never answered if she’s the lazy SAHM painted by some or if she actually does most things all the time except ‘work’.
> 
> Or why you didn’t support her taking classes. Did she want a job? Do you want her to work or stay home?


I never said I didn't support her taking classes. When she asked to take classes related to a hobby (this is probably 2-3 years ago) I made a list of classes including free alternatives. She took that as me saying no. She did sign up for the class at the end and I still paid for it


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> No. She just hates doing anythign related to finances herself.


THAT is a huge example of laziness. Nobody likes to do bilks and finances. What is your opinion of how she spends her day when you’re at work in someone else’s schedule?


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> To me the odd thing here is verbalizing the timeline. Here are my problems with you (and a problem with her) and you must somehow address these by this date.
> 
> What if they’re addressed in a month and you have a year?
> 
> ...


I'm trying not to divulge too much info because there are a lot of things I want to handle on my own. But thank you all for the advice and feedback


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Op you never answered if she’s the lazy SAHM painted by some or if she actually does most things all the time except ‘work’.
> 
> Or why you didn’t support her taking classes. Did she want a job? Do you want her to work or stay home?


Part of me wants to say she's a lazy SAHM, but I know she's burnt out from the kids. They're very needy and drained all of her energy. I've been picking up the slack for all the house chores for the past 2 years.
All these issues regarding me not supporting her taking classes isn't true either. I think my behavior from 10 years ago when we were tight on cash and I told her no at that time must have left a bad taste for a long time.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> Part of me wants to say she's a lazy SAHM, but I know she's burnt out from the kids. They're very needy and drained all of her energy. I've been picking up the slack for all the house chores for the past 2 years.
> All these issues regarding me not supporting her taking classes isn't true either. I think my behavior from 10 years ago when we were tight on cash and I told her no at that time must have left a bad taste for a long time.


she simply should not be holding on to a grudge that long if she expects to have a long, happy marriage.

Being a SAHM and complaining about the domestic workload is another issue that's hard to parse. 

I kind of understand it as a division of labor, with some concessions that it's not equal... like in some ways going to an office for 8-10 hours a day is easier than taking care of kids (especially if they're home all day). 

But it's also more stressful at times; dealing with business-people egos and office politics is no walk in the park. 

It's hard to say who's doing more without observing it first hand... 

my partner will claim she needs more help, and I try to provide that, b/c she's not working, and we have a 1-year-old that still needs constant attention. I would not be as understanding a couple years from now when he doesn't need to be held/carried all the time, and can play on his own. But the plan is for her to go back to work... in which case we'd agree on a division of housework, or hire a cleaning person.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

The thing that I find odd is her desire to still have sex with you a few times per week. She is threatening divorce and seems unhappy with you but is having sex with you. Hmm…

I think you have changes to make and not knowing your wife, I’ll give her some benefit of the doubt but something feels off…

I don’t know, sounds like you’ll be walking on eggshells and any slight slip up she’ll be threatening divorce.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Most guys if a W says they might D you H, I'll tell you in a year.......would immediately start planning to D her pronto, no waiting, sorry W, if that's your ultimatum to me, we need to D now


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The regular sex is not unusual to me. I had a chronically unhappy ex and she wanted sex as often as I did. Was having sex with me every night while doing all her shenanigans. 

I think the sex is most commonly dependent on libedo and not as much as other factors. 
That’s why I think people who are claiming this reason or that reason for not having sex—- I’m sure that’s partly true, but imagine how angry a normal 18 years old boy wouid have to be before he turned down sex? A woman that’s 45 and in her prime as far as libedo is likely similar.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The absolute best answer to this situation is beat her to the punchline and you file immediately. Take control or be controlled… up to you.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

As the thread goes on, it sounds like most of these issues she brought up happened a while ago.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Most guys if a W says they might D you H, I'll tell you in a year.......would immediately start planning to D her pronto, no waiting, sorry W, if that's your ultimatum to me, we need to D now


Wouldn’t most people do that? I mean, what’s the point in the deadline?


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Wouldn’t most people do that? I mean, what’s the point in the deadline?


One of two or a combination of both: She is indeed a shell of herself. Threatening instead of acting.
Or, she is trying out a new person but wants a safety net or plan b.

It doesn't matter. The marriage is over.


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## BlueWhiteClouds (5 mo ago)

re16 said:


> Everything you stated sounds like anxiety to me, both general anxiety and social anxiety which often come together.. After kids, my wife was behaving very similar to how you described yourself. You can't let anxiety ruin your marriage... its done enough damage already.
> 
> Go talk to your doctor and tell him about how anxiety is affecting your day to day life and get an SSRI. You will not believe the difference. It saved my marriage. You can't fight it on your own... just make the appointment.
> 
> You are not a failure because you need a med... it is quite the opposite, it is you doing what you have to do for the benefit of your family... If you don't deal with a situation, for whatever excuses you may have, that is a failure... especially if it breaks up your family.


@re16, can you tell me which SSRI you used? I did some research and reflection and suddenly realized a majority of the conflicts stem from my anxiety.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

[


BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I really appreciate your perspective. I will visit an attorney to see what I should be prepared with. Do you have any advice on how to avoid triggering suspicions if she has access to credit card transactions?


What a strange question. Visiting an attorney can be done privately


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> I never said I didn't support her taking classes. When she asked to take classes related to a hobby (this is probably 2-3 years ago) *I made a list of classes including free alternatives.* She took that as me saying no. She did sign up for the class at the end and I still paid for it


That statement there shows how controlling you are. Where is her agency in making decisions? Do you make all the decisions for the family and for her?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

aine said:


> That statement there shows how controlling you are. Where is her agency in making decisions? Do you make all the decisions for the family and for her?


Perhaps he was just making a suggestion(s) and giving her some ideas ? You can't really make an accusation of controlling behavior without all the details.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

aine said:


> That statement there shows how controlling you are. Where is her agency in making decisions? Do you make all the decisions for the family and for her?


I like your response, but need to consider exactly what she was requesting and their financial situation.

My ex, when we were struggling financially many years ago, borrowed thousands of dollars that we didn't have for something she wanted to do. Later, she wanted to take some religious studies classes through an unaccredited school. I shared my frank opinion and it did not happen.

You can bet she threw the controlling and abusive labels at me. The truth was we didn't have tens of thousands of dollars to throw at this. I guess she expected me to make it work.

Details matter. You can't say he's abusive if he's simply being prudent / realistic.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

aine said:


> [
> 
> What a strange question. Visiting an attorney can be done privately


Yes, but how will he pay for it? Not even basic consultations are free. And any assessment is going to cost hundreds per hour. Keeping that private is his concern.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

How hard can it be to make a check out to cash or a cash withdrawal? Geez. She can ask what it was for, he can do what she’s an expert at and WITHHOLD INFORMATION


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## Alexander 84 (5 mo ago)

BlueWhiteClouds said:


> My wife and I have been married for over 10 years now. We have 2 kids.
> 
> Recently, she told me she is considering divorce. She had considered separation a year ago but told me I ignored her and that it's too late. She is thinking of divorce but will make a decision next year. I'm a bit confused because I don't ever recall having any lengthy discussion on separation.
> 
> ...



If she means something to you and the family as a whole, work on it. Try counseling for conflict resolution and enhanced communication. Try and find a hobby that lets you blow off steam like working out or something so you can have your own time, or include the kids. Divorce is no fun. The budget thing, I’ve been there. Try and maybe find ways to make more money so you won’t be as worried.
Place family #1 - the career takes the back seat. They say 18 years is all we get with our children, make them count and build great memories. Something as simple as a family walk through the park on the weekend can be a good thing and requires no money. Some of my best memories were doing these sort of things with the family, not a vacation. Maybe seek assistance with a travel agent for more in depth vacations?


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