# Marriage Counselor for manipulation?



## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

Curious if anyone's spouse has used a marriage counselor as a means of manipulation. As a way to teach you a lesson & get you to see 'the error' of your ways so to speak.

This started with the fact that my wife has to see a bariatric counselor for her weight loss. It is part of the bariatric program at the local hospital. After her first session, my wife says that the counselor wants to see us in a joint session. 
That she knows of a marriage counselor we need to see....


We've gone to a counselor years ago....initially it was for her weight loss. It then progressed quickly into including me b/c my wife felt that I had an anti-social disorder (according to her, I had a hard time keeping eye contact with those speaking to me & I was socially nervous).

So Ive been thru this before. 

Long story short....my wife was caught in an online cheating situation two years ago. She kept hiding some other activity afterward as well that she doesn't know that I know about. I think she has an alcohol problem as well.

Anyway, I will write more later. But I was curios on others experiences.

thanks
farmer


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that often times people hope that counseling will help the other person realize their flaws. Good counseling would help both people realize their (both) flaws and their good points.

Why not just go. I doubt it will hurt.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I was asked to attend sessions with my wife, with her individual counselor. That is quite a bit different than seeing a marriage counselor who has ethical obligations to both partners who are each the counselor's patient.



It turned out this invitation occurred when my wife had a secret to tell -- that she had resumed contact with her EA partner (my words, not hers).



This secret was revealed basically in the parking lot before one of our appointments, with our young kids in tow.



I did not like how I was treated by her counselor... she would ask me questions and then try to shut me up before I was finished. She told me she was a Ph.D. or whatever and had a bunch of training and that she knew what worked best (when I complained she was not letting me answer her questions). After a small number of sessions, I never went back.



It retrospect, my suspicion is my wife had other things she or her counselor felt the need to tell me, and was uncomfortable doing so on her own. I wish we had continued the sessions, despite feeling as if I had been muzzled. I might have learned something.



The best way to ensure you don't get railroaded is to have an individual counselor yourself, sign releases to let marriage counselor and individual counselor speak freely about your sessions. Might help if all counselors involved are familiar with each other. That is my experience, anyways.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

duplicate (thanks Tapatalk)


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Not enough info here.

The only thing we KNOW about people with weight issues - if there's no other illness - is that they consume more/less calories than they burn.

Thereafter, a therapist might well want to see you if you are a contributory factor in maintaining your wife's issues.

Without detail, there's no way to tell if her eating, drinking and EAs are due to her being a selfish, instant gratifier,, or you being a neglectful or abusive spouse.

More often than not, both partners have some culpability in their SO's 'issue', whether deliberate or not. A good therapist will seek to find out and address any negativity from the SO. So, not uncommon to seek info from the partner who didn't make the appointment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate all the insight.

Yes, I agree as well that the bariatric counselor would want to see how the spouse of the patient contributes or doesnt to the problem at hand. That I understand. I am willing to be a part of that.

I'll post more, but here is a little more insight. My wife explained that she talked more than just weight issues with this counselor. They talked about her childhood, etc. The counselor asked if she had ever been abused sexually....my wife told her that when she was a child, a neighborhood girl sexually abused her one time.
I assume that the counselor's questioning of my wifes past, is an attempt to find the core issues on her weight problem. This makes sense, since my wife has been dealing with this issue since childhood.

Anyway, my wife tells me that there were other issues they talked about. One was how my wife feels my mother is the root of my problems. That my mom & I have too close of a relationship & that my mom loves me too much. When my wife told me that she shared this thought with the counselor, she also told me that she had been looking thru my phone at my text messages with my mom.
She said that the texts she read showed that my mom is too caring for me (?) and that she thinks it is inappropriate for someone to have a connection to a parent that way.

Ok, I don't understand the concern my wife has for this....she knew I loved my mom from the first time we met & started dating. 

But I think I now know why she is bringing it up. Its because my wife wants to move away from where we currently live. She wants to move far away from my parents so I don't see them as much, she wants to quit her job as a nurse & stay at home, she wants to live in the country on a farm (?), she wants to adopt a child, and she wants me to support all this emotionally & financially.

She wants to convince me that all the above makes sense & is the best for me in the long run. I believe she feels that a counselor will help make this case even more. That we need to move & do all those things in order for her to lose weight, feel good about herself, etc. 

Some other background to us...this is the 3rd time my wife has cheated. She has done this twice via online relationships (sexting & video sexting) & with a fitness trainer that we went to years ago (kissing & fondling). Long stories...i will explain more later.

(maybe I should post this in the infidelity forum)


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Ahhh. So the deal is, you cater for her every whim and, in return, she might get thinner?

I can see her now, heading for Mc D's if you can't coax the requisite number of eggs outta the chickens.

I don't think you need worry too much about a therapist taking her side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I can say that my ex believed our MC was attempting to manipulate him. At the time I was having difficulties with his anger and verbal abuse. When the counselor offered alternative ways of communicating, the ex shouted (literally) that he didn't need anyone telling him how to talk to his wife-and refused to return.
Turns out he was afraid of disclosing all his infidelities.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> Ahhh. So the deal is, you cater for her every whim and, in return, she might get thinner?
> 
> I can see her now, heading for Mc D's if you can't coax the requisite number of eggs outta the chickens.
> 
> ...


Thats an interesting way of putting it. 
Well, I think she would tell the therapist that all these other issues (my mom, my reluctance to move away, her job that she hates, me not being romantic enough, etc, etc) are keeping her from losing weight....

She would say that she needs to be in an environment that she feels is conducive for her to do this. That is, an environment where she doesnt have to work, she can take care of a child, and one that everything else is taken care of by me.

The weight issue is just one aspect of all this. Ive heard her theory of marriage over & over for the past few years. Her theory is that since she is a female, then she is the princess & should be catered too, taken care of & loved unconditionally.
I'm not kidding....she says this verbatim. She says that her parents have a relationship where her dad does anything for her mom without question. That we should have a relationship like this too. 

Well, at the times Ive heard this from her, I just pass it off to her being tipsy or whatever. She reads fantasy romance novels a lot & likes movies like Twilight, etc. And if anyone posts on facebook about having a baby, it becomes an obsession for her to have one too.

Since catching her in the last online relationship (summer 2012), she hasn't talked or met my parents since then. I obviously told them about the situation at the time b/c I was hurt. But since then, neither has made the move to initiate contact with the other. My parents feel it is not in their place to apologize to her or do anything....my wife on the other hand feels that my parents should make the effort to initiate contact with her & tell her that everything is ok.

After DDay, my wife continued contact with the OM secretly. She also signed up for dating sites with a profile. To this day she has no idea that I know about this. Ive told my parents about it everything....I needed the support at the time.

Maybe this is why my wife feels I should move away from my parents. She feels that my parents know too much. My wifes family (her mom) on the other hand supported her from the beginning of DDay. Her mom didnt approve of the affair, but felt it was justified in her mind. I think her dad was lied to & told a different story, as he would not approve of what happened.

Anyway, what a tangled mess I am in. I have allowed this to fester for 2 years now. My best friend, who knows everything, told me to move on.....that she will do this again. Nothing will change for me....he says that she wants to mold me into a puppet, follow her around & cater to every whim.
Maybe he was right all along.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

If she's not throwing hissy fits and rages, you can probably rule out the narcissist and borderline PD's.

This sounds like a maladaptive personality. Someone who knows fantasy from reality but doesn't much like the latter. Early abuse is common to such types.

You describe her as not liking anything real. Job, home, your parents (etc) but likes the whole princess thing with a farm instead of a castle.

Her disappointment at not having her wishes met likely causes her eating and drinking.

Thing is, if you made her dreams a reality, more than likely they'd soon become another disappointment. Farm too small. Baby too noisy (etc).

Such fantasists are always chasing the next fantasy. 

Probably, only a therapist can help you. If I'm right (may not be) this is reversable, unlike the disorders you commonly hear about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

She does get upset about this issues.... She also gets obsessive about them as well, as if the world will end if she doesnt have it all.

She went so far as to look for me a job in another city that she wanted to move to. She also was looking at houses too....and not about how much they cost...but what the houses looked like & if they were out in the country or not, etc, etc. It was up to me to pay for all this I guess.

So yeah, I can agree, its a fantasy mentality. She has changed jobs 4 or so times at the hospital she works at within the 8 years we've been together. Its always been that she can't get along with the supervisors or the workload is too much. She's currently looking for another job & she's only been at her current job for 8 months.

I dont know about being a narcissist. I work with women who is one, so I have some experience with one. They are similar is some ways & not in others. 

My wife has said that she thinks that since she is a female.... with female parts, that any man should be thankful to be with someone like her. That babies when they see someone like her, that they gravitate to her because babies know what real beauty is (?) Not sure why babies would know that, but thinks what she thinks.

Its gotten to the point where I am afraid of the weekends. The weekends mean that we are together for an extended amount of time, and I become afraid that something will make her mad & ruin the whole weekend for me. She'll bring up wanting a child...or wanting to move away...or proceed to tell me that my mom is the reason for our issues...etc, etc. To me, weekends & vacations are chances for an emotional ambush by her.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

So let me get this straight, she has already cheated on you more than once (still going on?) and now wants to move away from your family and be a stay at home wife.

Well for her this would be great. You'll be working while she has lots of time to have affairs. And with your family out of the picture you'll have less support trying to get through this and she'll have no one to interfere. But this time her reason for the cheating will be because you're never there and she's lonely.

Don't do what she wants. You're going to have to do something about the cheating as it seems it hasn't stopped and it will get worse if you give in to her demands. This has to be your priority. Definitely not the weight loss. As soon as she is slimmer she'll have more opportunities to cheat.

Also don't have children yet.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

Also Farmer. Stick with the one thread. I've just gone through all the others and it seems they last for two pages then you start a new one. Your first thread was in early 2013 and you seem to be still in the same situation. Nothing has changed. And its difficult for members on here to have to read them all to get a picture of what is going on and what actions you have taken so far.

From what I've read she thinks the only person that matters in this relationship is her. You have to do everything in your power to make her happy yet just being married to her is seen as reward enough for you.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Farmer,



In some of your posts above, you state what you "think" your wife is thinking or would say or do in front of a counselor. It sounded like you were speculating, and fully aware speculation does not equal knowledge. Yet, by the time I finished reading them I got the feeling (just a feeling) you might give your speculations more significance than you should.



Are you planning to meet with her counselor, and resume MC with another?



Sounds like there are lots of things to figure out in your relationship. IME, seeing regularly a good therapist of one's own can be a way to get traction and move things forward. Especially when the Other's behavior is confusing and troubling.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

Actually I have seen an individual therapist on my own since Feb or March of last year. No one knows that Ive been going to one. 

As SevenYears has stated....my situation hasnt changed any since early 2013. I do though think me going to a therapist has helped a lot. It has been very helpful for me to talk to someone about all this. My therapist has just been listening to me talk during our sessions. Ive told her everything that has gone on so far. 

Shes mentioned that I need to move on. That being happy alone is better than being with someone & unhappy. She doesnt understand what I want out the therapy sessions since I never really listed a goal that I wanted to attain. But I think I have.....Ive been using the sessions to weigh my options of staying vs leaving. So far I am leaning towards leaving.

But Ive had a side issue of dealing with my fear of being alone. I'll admit that I'm afraid of losing my parents now that they are getting older in their early 70's. My folks have been the only ones that I could count on for support during all this mess & in the past. After my wife & I split apart...I'll be by myself. 
I dont want to paint my wife as a wicked she-devil....but she has put me thru a lot of pain.....the cheating, lying, emotional manipulation, etc. I know there are spouses out there that have done worse....such as catching them in a physical affair. 

I know to some, after reading my story, that its a no brainer on what I should do. Its been hard accepting the inevitable.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Time for the loaded question... How does Mrs. Farmer regulate her emotions ???

The frequent job changes, not getting along with people at work etc have a few things to suggest...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

At this point I'm wondering why you are still with her. Seriously.

Plus, if you divorce her, she will probably lose all kinds of weight.

See how that works for both of you?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Farmer_J said:


> I know to some, after reading my story, that its a no brainer on what I should do. Its been hard accepting the inevitable.





Same here. 



You might check out Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay. Author is Mira Kirshenbaum or something like that.





My therapist does not express an opinion on whether I should stay or go. I am surprised yours does. Sometimes I wish mine would give me her opinion though!


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

john117 said:


> Time for the loaded question... How does Mrs. Farmer regulate her emotions ???
> 
> The frequent job changes, not getting along with people at work etc have a few things to suggest...


I'm not sure if I understand the question....but I guess you mean how she controls herself....

I'd have to say, she has a hard time holding back any emotions. She tells it like she sees it. If she is angry or sad, she'll let you know, You'll see or hear it. She isnt shy about letting others know show she feels.


She certainly isnt shy about her opinions about things. For instance, her brother and his wife home school their kids. His wife is a SAHM & involves religion in the schooling. I dont have a problem that...first it isnt any of my business how they raise their kids...and I think its rather pleasant to know that at least their kids are learning morals, etc. Not to long ago, my wife tells her brother what she thinks of his wife.....that she feels his wife is overbearing & controls his family with religion & home schooling, etc. Afterwards she told what she said to her brother....I was shocked & embarassed for her. But after awhile it made sense...she speaks her mind about things.

The frequent job changes....I think this is just her not being happy with anything. Its always something.....usually its been supervisors being too demanding. For her current job now, its because the work load is too much....(she makes $32 an hour).
She just wants to stay at home & raise a child. I get so tired of hearing about it over & over whenever she has a bad day at work. 
Gosh, I'd like to quit my job too & stay at home too. I told her this and her response was that it wouldn't follow traditional gender roles for me to stay at home (wtf does that have to with anything?)

This Thanksgiving she made the plans for us to go see her brother & his family. Her parents will be there as well. Her brother's inlaws will also be there. Her brother & sister inlaw are fine moral people. They don't know the entire story about my wife & I. Its her mom that I don't feel good about....on the outside she is a happy 72 yr old grandmother....but back on DDay, Ive read the correspondence btwn her & my wife in how she feels about me. On the other hand, who knows what story my wife was telling her parents....

But I won't be able to see my parents for Thanksgiving though. My mom just told me that she will have to get radiation treatment for the next 6 weeks. 
I feel that I am away from the people that need me now more than anything.......and I'm spending most of my time with people that would throw me under the bus given the first chance.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, you just triggered the BPD and/or NPD detector there.

- problem regulating (controlling) emotions
-lack of empathy (not shy about speaking out even when it may not be a good long term option)
- job changes, never happy 
- painting you different colors... Mostly negative

And so on.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

john117 said:


> Well, you just triggered the BPD and/or NPD detector there.
> 
> - problem regulating (controlling) emotions
> -lack of empathy (not shy about speaking out even when it may not be a good long term option)
> ...


Well, made it thru the holidays ok I guess.....
We spent Thanksgiving with her family....and we ended up spending Christmas also with her family. My B-day is the day after Christmas....so we were with her family then as well.

I got to see my parents the following weekend though. My mom has been going thru radiation treatments causing her to be weak but she is a true champion & doesnt let it get her down. But she did express some sadness to me....she mentioned that this March, it will be 3 years since my wife has seen or talked to my parents. My mom was sad about this. I feel as though I am to blame by letting this situation stay like it has for so long.

Today my wife texts me & says that she is done with her job. That she doesnt get support from her doctor employer in running his office & she is done there. 
Man, I hate these blow ups....they used to cause me to stress out quite a bit. Now not so much...I guess I am used to it.
My wife thinks that moving away to a new town would make things better for her. She also would rather not work either & just stay at home.

I have quit going to my IC. I just don't feel like I am getting anything out of going anymore. I guess the answer was staring me in the face the whole time....basically that no amount of IC is going to solve my problems for me. I think thats what my IC was trying to imply to me. Going there & talking about how bad my week was with my wife or whatever....that talking about it isnt solving the issue.

Anyway, I think I have had almost enough of this. I told myself that under no circumstances am I going to move away any further from my folks. I feel as though they need me to be there for them......but the reality is, that maybe I need them to be there for me. I just can't move away in hopes to help my wife get happy and then one day to get that fateful phone call about my folks. 

I'm just sad about it all. I never thought my life would end up where it is. I thought I would have had a happy marriage & children by now...instead Ive had one failed marriage & another on the way, neither with any children.

.....
Edit

Tonight my wife has been sad about her job....which I know from past blowups, brings up her desire to move to anywhere away from here.
She hates it here (Florida)...thinks life would be better somewhere else....that me being away from my parents would be best for me....

Her parents in the older age have decided to move to N Georgia to be closer to her brother & his family. This causes even more of a pull for my wife to want to move. Ive heard all this before so many times.....

Just awhile ago, my wife comes to me showing on her tablet where she has been searching on the internet....searching for me jobs in Georgia.
I guess her plan is that I am supposed to quit my job, sell our house here, find a new place to live up there. find a new job & she stay at home. She could then travel to see her family during the day while I worked. This would make her happy. 
Of course I would be miserable. My parents are elderly too...my moms had breast cancer & is currently receiving treatment for it. 
I don't know if my wife even thinks about that.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Your therapist had it right.
She is taking whatever she can get from you and not allowing you to grow or even exist as a person.

Time to move on.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

let's face it is all about your wife...end of story...it will always all about your wife and her needs....and i promise you this...if you leave Florida to move closer to her family in Georgia it will NEVER end with her, she will she will stay home, or be at her parents house, she will rely on you for everything and when you finally wake up and divorce her...she will take you to the bank....and if life didn't screw you enough at that point you will get the call that your mom passed away and you will live with guilt the rest of your life......so i am not sure what you have in your hands to try to salvage...i do agree with your wife...sell the house but i would split the proceeds and send her backing to Georgia...you will never change her...and she is hell bent to change you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The real problem here is that you're being a doormat. And the longer you stay a doormat, the more of your wife's 'problems' become YOUR problems. 

Tell her you want a separation. Tell her you'll stay in touch if she wants, but in the meantime, if she doesn't go to therapy to deal with HER crap (cheating, overeating, etc), you'll just make plans to go your own way.

And go get No More Mr Nice Guy and read it as soon as possible. You'll find yourself in the pages.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

Wow...I wasn't expecting the responses. I appreciate them.
I guess, yes I have been a doormat. I have to admit, that I am afraid to make my wife mad or upset . Subconsciously Ive been afraid of losing my spouse so I walk on eggshells. I guess it is a fear of rejection since my first wife left me 10 yrs ago for someone else. That episode in my life has haunted me to this day. She was the opposite to my current wife....thin, job oriented, a go-getter, non-girly, etc. (She's been a sheriffs deputy for 10 yrs now.) She was quieter too about things in life..didnt openly criticize my family, my mom, etc. BUT, I think her not talking about life, is what lead her to find someone else. I knew things werent great btwn us (being roommates, no intimacy, etc) , but I wasn't expecting to really divorce. My thoughts were that divorce came about from hating the other person a lot & 'for real' falling out of love with them. I guess I didnt really do that with my first wife. 

I guess when I met my current wife, I was looking for anything to fill that void in my life. Out of the ones that I met, she was the only woman that appeared great on paper. I had to accept that she wasn't average sized & quiet like my first wife. At the time I didnt know I found those qualities attractive. Don't get me wrong, my wife is pretty. She at least knows she is....she made the comment that babies know when they see attractive people, that they calm down...and she can tell b/c they calm down around her. My wife is not humble at all.

Anyway to get back on track with my story...... my wife wants me to put her forefront of my life. I kind of understand that somewhat since I come from a religious background that values spousal bonds. But I think her understanding is that its not only from a religious standing but she wants me to put her on a pedestal....like the guys that swoon over the girl in the Bachelorette show. Its hard for me to do that. There has been a lot of water under the bridge since I met my wife. There's been a lot of things she's done that have hurt me.....a lot of it, I don't think I can forgive. When she wants me to act like I desire her, its hard for me to forget all those things....the cheating, lying, unemphathetic tones, and inability to lose weight. 

If she didn't have a past of cheating & was average sized.....I'd say, that I wouldn't really have anything to complain about. But even with saying that, I still feel somewhat guilty. I feel like I have led her on somehow. She's had surgery that makes her incapable of having children...I feel guilty for that too. I know I shouldn't. On the flip side, It would be insane to adopt a child with her, given all that has happened.

To add to my dilema....a friend is starting a new business with some other guys I know. Its been in the works for about a year but the pieces are finally coming together to make it work. Their hope is that I would join them one day & become part owner. My wife doesn't know any of this. I wasnt sure even how to approach her with this...i didnt want to upset her. I guess to some people it sounds like a perfect circumstance, in that I would get out of two bad situations...a bad job & marriage. But I am still wary of it all.....I guess I have a fear of change.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you in therapy?

And have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? 

Both are absolutely essential in your life.

And go for the new opportunity. If you're scared, just write her a text about it.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> Are you in therapy?
> 
> And have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet?
> 
> ...



Not in therapy any more....stopped about 2-3 months ago. 
I did see one about 4 months (Jan 2013) after DDay (Aug 2012). I went to a counselor by myself. My wife didn't & still doesn't know that I went to see one. 

I suggested after dday & a few times afterward that she should go see a counselor but she never did. She has a variety of issues that she needs to deal with....
She's been to see a "counselor" about 6 months ago but it was for bariatric reasons. I guess people who have weight issues have their own type of counselling. But In her sessions she must have mentioned our relationship b/c the counselor suggested that we see a marriage counselor....hence this thread.

We've been to see one before. It was early on in our marriage. Initially it was for her to see a counselor for the weight issue. After about 2 sessions, she said that the counselor wanted to see the both of us. Thats when she brought up my social issues....which at the time really annoyed her.

So, thats why I am hesitant about seeing any more counselors. I think they can do great work....when they arent steered away from the main issues. On the flip side, I am not going to sit in a session with a counselor & my wife's past actions be minimized. Im not ready for that & I just dont think I am ready....honestly I dont think I would ever be ready. Ive been thru an episode like that with my first wife with a counselor minimizing what my wife was doing (flirting w men, etc).

I do have the book No Mr Nice Guy.....ive glanced at it. Its easier said than done with implementing the advice. BUT I do think it is great advice & would help someone like me. Deep down I want to do & be what the book says to do. One day, hopefully, I can reach that level.

The new opportunity is becoming a reality more & more. My friend that I have know for 12 years, yesterday was his last day at my work place. He is off to run a new consulting business & become competition to the place he just left...which I am still at. They dont know that was what he was planning on doing. If they did....who knows what they would have done.
Anyway, he would like very much for me to join the business sometime.... whenever I want to & become part owner as well. Me leaving my current job in itself will be another dramatic point in my life. My workplace will want me to stay & I couldnt tell them my plans for leaving....what a drama it will be.

Ive talked to my friend a lot about what has happened in my life. He knows everything that has happened. He told me that I should have kept walking after I left on DDay. That my mistake was going back home & trying to work it out with her. He feels that my wife will manipulate me enough that I will end up moving to GA or wherever she wants to go...but that she'll never be happy with anything. Ive told him that wont ever happen & that I cant leave my family behind & only see them a few times a year. He says that once she finds out about this business that she will have two choices....either, surprisingly, she will stick around or she will be so angry that I didnt tell her about it, that she will end up leaving & moving to GA by herself.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Honestly, I think your wife is the one who needs IC, not you. And don't give up entirely on marriage counselors. We've had two terrible ones and now have an awesome one. Yes, they can be manipulated and the key is to finding one that would never allow that to happen.

There's sooo much going on in your relationship between her weight, surgery, infertility, her need to control....She needs a counselor that is not just a bariatric surgery counselor, IMO. But she has to want it . 

Oh, and about the new job opportunity....just make sure you won't be doing anything illegal with regard to violating a non-compete agreement or something! You don't need that added on to everything!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So basically, everyone tells you to grow a backbone, you are handed tools to help you do that - like reading NMMNG - and you refuse to follow any of the advice, and you still have the crappy life you have.

Quel surprise.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> So basically, everyone tells you to grow a backbone, you are handed tools to help you do that - like reading NMMNG - and you refuse to follow any of the advice, and you still have the crappy life you have.
> 
> Quel surprise.


Yes I understand. But I am trying to grow a backbone. And I have started on NMMNG & some other books....

I guess my real issue is coming to terms of being alone. I dont think I am the only one facing this.

Ive had to come to grips with if what I am thinking is rational. You see, Ive made so many mistakes in my past (1st & 2nd marriage) that Ive come to second guess my decisions. 

Writing on this forum & having people tell me that what I have in my life isnt good for me.....it helps me accept things. None of us got married knowing that someday we'd get divorced. It took me at least 2-3 years for me to finally accept the end of my first marriage. I had a hard time accepting that my wife picked another person over me. Its not an ego thing....but I just didnt think that was the way life was supposed to be. 

I guess the outcome just didnt fit my vision of what my life was supposed to be. Ive had a hard time accepting that there isnt a manual of living your life & if you go by it you'd be guaranteed success.

Having people here tell me that its ok to leave...or that if they were me that they would do this or that.....it has helped me realize that I dont have to second guess myself or put up with crap just so I wont be alone. 

Its been a journey for me....I was scared at the beginning & now I'm not as scared. But I have to keep encouraging myself to not regress back to my old feelings. B/c if I don't keep it up, I feel as though I will put up with anything.

I also dont want to fool myself into thinking that it is always the other person that is wrong....and that there isnt anything wrong with me. You see, Ive been married twice....and there has been something Ive been doing to instigate what happened to my marriage's both declining. Ive been soul searching on what that is. Maybe it is my personality, my family, my habits.. 
I dont want to keep repeating whatever I have been doing wrong. Going thru one divorce was a nightmare....and it just about killed me, literally. 

I guess I do need IC...for facing my fears. I guess I also need a mentor of some sort. Someone who is wise that I can discuss life & get advice. The people on this forum have been my mentors in a way. Reading about their experiences & getting their advice has opened up my eyes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Farmer_J said:


> I guess I do need IC...for facing my fears. I guess I also need a mentor of some sort.


Exactly. And absolutely. Father, brother, friend, pastor...?

btw, being alone and learning to be OK being alone...absolutely good for you. If you can't handle being alone, then you're making decisions based on whatever it takes to NOT be alone...and even you can know that that's not healthy.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

Just a rant....

My wifes 40th b-day was friday and of course v-day was yesterday. I got her card(s) weeks ago. So she tells me that she wants to do a lot of activities this week. That we dont need to celebrate v-day....ok
I look into getting reservations for some local restaurants....She wants to go to one in particular. It doesnt honor reservations...thats ok.

So friday she tells me that we are going to another restaurant to meet one of her friends....ok I guess going to the other restaurant has been delayed until a later day. As everyone knows, restaurants on or around V-day are packed....
Well we get to the restaurant and meet her friend. We have a good time. I think my wife was expecting more of her friends to be there...but oh well.

Saturday, v-day....she slept till almost 1 pm. She didnt want to do anything for v-day anyway. I work around the house some. SHe tells me that Sunday she is to meet several of her old work mates for brunch & watch a move...50 shades of grey. i say ok, fine by me.
So today while she is out with her friends, I clean the house, etc.

She comes back a couple hours later today & she sounds depressed.
I finally get it out of her that she no longer feels close to any of her friends...that she is an outsider. I dont know what particularly happened during her outing, but it made her depressed.
She mops on the couch for a while....teary eyed.
She then tells me that she no longer feels like we do anything together. (?)

So, now here I am getting ready so we can go to dinner at a nice restaurant. I know there is going to be some expectation of me to act a certain way (romantic) but she'll still have that underlying depression.

Oh...I just thought we could make for a few months without another depressive episode.....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what are you doing for YOURself? That's not attached to her or what she does or what she wants?


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> So what are you doing for YOURself? That's not attached to her or what she does or what she wants?


Good question...

Well.... we have started on Nutrisystem...lol..if that counts for anything. She instigated doing this & is providing the funds for it.
She needs someone to help her stay on the system.

For myself....I guess I have my hobbies. I dabble in computers & play a musical instrument. I guess another thing I'm doing is that I am currently trying to learn new software that is useful for my career. 

I don't have my wood working tools at our house anymore (I moved all my stuff out back in 2012). I havent touched any of it since that time. 

My friend's business is now picking up. He & another guy he is working with are basically competition to the place I currently work at (long story). The plan was for me to be a part of it at some future date along with another guy I know at my work place. The other guy's family knows of his plans & is supportive of him. I on the other hand, have not told any of this to my wife. I'm afraid of her reaction...she could get mad & tell my current bosses...who knows. But I doubt she would do it though.
I have to admit....my plans don't involve her in my long term future plans. I just dont think I can deal for the rest of my life dealing with this up & down depressive cycle of hers. Its more than that...there has been a lot that has happened since we first got together. My prior posts give a more detailed account of what has happened.

On the other hand, part of me feels that I deserve all this. That I don't deserve to have a family & peace in my life.

My first wife left for someone else for a reason. That reason was because of me. I made her feel sad, like a roommate, etc.
I can't even remember all the other reasons she gave me 11 years ago. And here I am again, with someone different....in the same situation. 

It all points to me. Im the defective one.
I just dont know what I have been doing wrong all these years. There is no manual or guide to how to live your life with others. In my life there has been all sorts of texts, guides or manuals for this or that..... but in a relationship life, I can't seem to find one to go by.

Maybe I am looking at it wrong...
People don't always get along...they fall in & out of love all the time....there are times when you love your spouse & then other times when you don't so much....times when you feel like staying & times when you feel like you made a mistake...
Maybe the true statement is this: These all may be true, but its how you react to those not so great moments that is the true test of time. Some try to make the best of it all, some try to get past the bad times to the good ones that behind it...
Then there are others that step out of bounds and decide that someone they know might be better in their life.

The fear of losing my parents is something I am having to deal with now as well. These two people are the only ones that I know I can count on. They have loved me before I am ever came into this world. They have supported me in ever moment of my life. They were there during those hardest moments when I thought my life was over & I wanted to die.

So I guess I have some things on my plate. I wished life was different for me. I didnt see myself ever being here. If I had, I would have taken a different path a long time ago.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're the defective one...so stop whining about it and DO SOMETHING.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

turnera said:


> You're the defective one...so stop whining about it and DO SOMETHING.


No...I don't think I am defective....sorry I was in a state of dispair the past few days...

I guess I've just been unlucky in the relationships Ive been in so far. The two spouses Ive been with have been the defective ones....b/c they chose to cheat as a solution to any problems we might have had. They seem to be able to sleep at night with what they have done....that speaks volumes to their character & moral base.

The hard part has been what to DO.... 
I don't know what to DO.... 
I don't know what to gauge as being appropriate to DO.

I really do need to find a wise advisor.....Someone to mentor me.

How would I go about finding someone to help advise me on what I need to DO?

Maybe they have been there all along....my friends, associates, people here on the forums, etc.....they've been telling me advice all along...I just never noticed or took it seriously.

My friend has told me that I will end staying with my wife...no matter what she does to me....that will end up doing whatever she wants me to do. His advice was that I should have kept walking when I left 2 years ago after dday.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Farmer_J said:


> No...I don't think I am defective....
> 
> I guess I've just been unlucky in the relationships Ive been in so far.


Relationships YOU picked and unlucky through choices YOU made. 

Until you accept the fact that you create your own problems, you will never get any real help, you will never make any changes, and you will never find real happiness.



> I really do need to find a wise advisor.....Someone to mentor me.


That's what psychologists are for.


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