# Wife does not want sex



## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

Before the pandemic we had sex but maybe every two weeks. I would have sex every night if she wanted. I like the emotional sexual connection. After the pandemic our issues surfaced. I realized I am a nice guy. Someone that is passive. She slowly moved away from me. I communicated with her and now in marriage counseling. She wants no sex. But at times she flirts and I feel romantic connection. She has anxiety issues and I support mad hug her. Then bam super cold. If I touch her I can feel her stiffen up. Last night she woke me up pleasing herself. I felt horrible with the idea of her thinking of having sex with someone as she lay next to me. We have two kids. So she does not want to separate. She asks for patience with me in regard to sex. I know passive emotional men maybe not attractive. Something I am working on with the no more mr nice guy program. But the idea she has no desire for me hurts. My question is will the desire ever come back if I become less passive. On testosterone now. I lost a testicle in my 20s. I am feeling more confident and less passive. Still feels horrible to think she has no attraction for me. She is cute but nothing amazing fyi.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

sensitiveguy said:


> Before the pandemic we had sex but maybe every two weeks. I would have sex every night if she wanted. I like the emotional sexual connection. After the pandemic our issues surfaced. I realized I am a nice guy. Someone that is passive. She slowly moved away from me. I communicated with her and now in marriage counseling. She wants no sex. But at times she flirts and I feel romantic connection. She has anxiety issues and I support mad hug her. Then bam super cold. If I touch her I can feel her stiffen up. Last night she woke me up pleasing herself. I felt horrible with the idea of her thinking of having sex with someone as she lay next to me. We have two kids. So she does not want to separate. She asks for patience with me in regard to sex. I know passive emotional men maybe not attractive. Something I am working on with the no more mr nice guy program. But the idea she has no desire for me hurts. My question is will the desire ever come back if I become less passive. On testosterone now. I lost a testicle in my 20s. I am feeling more confident and less passive. Still feels horrible to think she has no attraction for me. She is cute but nothing amazing fyi.


If you want your situation to improve, you need to be willing to stand up and take control of your situation.

NMMNG is a good start. Also read Athol Kay’s Married Mans Sex Life Primer.

Stop being passive and start leading your wife in your marriage.
Women respect strength, confidence and leadership, they despise weak passive men. It’s not a maybe, women are innately and viscerally turned off by passive, weak men and will always treat them badly.

The first thing you need to do is make a decision as to whether or not you will passively accept a sad, passionless, unfulfilling marriage or not.
You need to decide whether you’re just looking for martyrdom and validation for your misery, or if you actually want to improve your life. Because a crappy marriage is a crappy life.

You are responsible for being the leader in your marriage. That means setting the tone of your interactions and relationship, as well as being attractive and not being unattractive as a man and a husband.
Tell your wife what you expect out of your relationship together and then start behaving as such. Be playful, be flirtatious, tease her with a smile. Don’t expect her to respond right away, consider it practice.

Start doing things that make you more attractive, and stop doing things that make you unattractive.
If you’ve gotten out of shape, start working out and get in better shape.
Be more flirty and charming and fun.
Show more confidence and leadership.

Recognize it you’re acting whiny, needy, etc. and stop doing it.

Above all, you need to make the decision to do this for you, not for her.
You need to become a stronger, more confident and attractive man for YOU, regardless of what happens with your wife.
It will either improve your current marriage or it will prepare you for a much better relationship in the future with someone new.

If she asks what’s going on with you, just tell her I’m not willing to have a non-passionate, roommate marriage so we’re going to start changing that now. I realized I haven’t been leading in this and I’ve decided to change that as well.
Start being affectionate and initiating physically but don’t act butthurt when she declines.

Be consistent and don’t neglect any of this, and give it 6 months. If she doesn’t start responding at that point, you need clearly tell her that you won’t settle for a platonic roommate marriage, and if that is all she is willing / capable of, then it’s time to divorce. And you need to be serious, this can’t be a bluff.

You have to be willing to lose your marriage if you want any hope of reestablishing a romantic, sexual, fulfilling marriage.

She may come around, or she may not. But after 6 months of the above, you’ll be in a much better position either way.

Also, I’d ditch the marriage counseling. You don’t need a third-party “authority figure“ to give you permission to set your boundaries and expectations within your marriage. It just makes you look even weaker.
Marriage counseling may be fine for tactical communication issues or figuring out chores and schedules.
But in your situation, where your wife doesn’t respect you, doesn’t desire you and won’t **** you, not helpful and probably counterproductive.
YOU need to take control of the situation for yourself. There’s no other way your wife will ever respect you.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> She is cute but nothing amazing fyi.


 This makes it sound like you think you settled. Do you think she doesn’t sense that?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This makes it sound like you think you settled. Do you think she doesn’t sense that?


I get where you are coming from and there probably is something to that. But it is a vicious cycle, A man could be married to Heidi Klume but if she has zero attraction and desire for him and chronically rejects him,, she will quickly be "cute but nothing amazing" in his eyes. 

Conversely, if a common Plain Jane is looking at him with googelly eyes and can't keep her hands off of him and is laying him like tile night and after night, she will be the hottest thing on the planet to him. 

A woman that has zero desire and no sexual responsiveness and continually rejects a guy, will soon be just another face in the crowd and just another one of 7 billion human beings on planet; nothing special at all no matter how objectively good looking she may be. 

Does that become factor in her desire?? Maybe or maybe not. Some may be able to sense his loss of esteem for her which further decreases her desire for him. 

But for others, that may even come with some relief that he is losing interest in her and it encourages her to reject and distance herself from him all the more.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think once women lose desire for a person, it is very rare it genuinely comes back. Someone might manipulate them into having sex under certain conditions, but that doesn't mean they want to or have regained desire. At that point it would just be a transaction and not what you are looking for.

By the way, just because she's masturbating doesn't mean she's fantasizing about a man at all. Sometimes it's just scratching an itch and doesn't require any fantasy.

So don't torture yourself imagining rivals.

Communicate honestly in marriage counseling and let's hope she does the same so that at least you both know where you stand clearly and whether or not there is any path forward. Sorry you're going through this. Best of luck.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

I think she felt this years and years ago. After kids I changed my tune and energy and thought she was beautiful. But in some sense I did settle if I am honest.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> I think she felt this years and years ago. After kids I changed my tune and energy and thought she was beautiful. But in some sense I did settle if I am honest.


This is just my perspective but if I married someone who felt I wasn’t good enough for them, I would struggle to be intimate with them. For some women, it’s not just a physical act. It requires vulnerability, and it’s very difficult to be vulnerable with someone you know is disappointed they’re married to you and feels like they could do better. Especially after children when your body changes. 

It’s good you’re in counseling. This is something she deserves to hear. You lied to her and wasted her time. That’s pretty cruel. Don’t you think you owe her the respect and courtesy of the truth?


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> I think she felt this years and years ago. After kids I changed my tune and energy and thought she was beautiful. But in some sense I did settle if I am honest.


I do struggle because she is unemotionally available. She recognizes it. Everyone in her family is as well. All siblings and parents and grandparents are divorced. I want to be passionate and loving. I like that. I hid that need for a long time and as I become more of me she is overwhelmed. As time goes on she gets colder and distant. Her brothers ex wife could not handle the lack of emotion. I go back and forth or how much is me being passive or her just being emotionally unavailable. I believe I can become more assertive but I can’t change the need for passionate love.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> I do struggle because she is unemotionally available. She recognizes it. Everyone in her family is as well. All siblings and parents and grandparents are divorced. I want to be passionate and loving. I like that. I hid that need for a long time and as I become more of me she is overwhelmed. As time goes on she gets colder and distant. Her brothers ex wife could not handle the lack of emotion. I go back and forth or how much is me being passive or her just being emotionally unavailable. I believe I can become more assertive but I can’t change the need for passionate love.


Why would she want to be emotionally available to someone who feels he just settled for her? Isn’t that opening herself up to being even more hurt and humiliated?


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is just my perspective but if I married someone who felt I wasn’t good enough for them, I would struggle to be intimate with them. For some women, it’s not just a physical act. It requires vulnerability, and it’s very difficult to be vulnerable with someone you know is disappointed they’re married to you and feels like they could do better. Especially after children when your body changes.
> 
> It’s good you’re in counseling. This is something she deserves to hear. You lied to her and wasted her time. That’s pretty cruel. Don’t you think you owe her the respect and courtesy of the truth?


Over time I recognized what you said and I have gotten in a place where I haves showed my love and adoration for her. But a little too late maybe.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> Over time I recognized what you said and I have gotten in a place where I haves showed my love and adoration for her. But a little too late maybe.


Showed real love and adoration or just pretended? You’re saying you felt she was plain and then changed your mind? Because your initial post was present tense. Why are you staying married, are you worried about the cost of divorce and child support (if the kids are still at home)?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sensitiveguy said:


> I think she felt this years and years ago. After kids I changed my tune and energy and thought she was beautiful. But in some sense I did settle if I am honest.


Maybe it's time to let it go.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> Over time I recognized what you said and I have gotten in a place where I haves showed my love and adoration for her. But a little too late maybe.


More complicated. At times I am so attracted to her and love her. Other times I want to run. We were so compatible before kids. Settling not really about looks, but about how I wanted to live my life. I should clarify more on that. I was a confused guy back then when we got together. Maybe still confused. I love her and my children and I want to have a family that shows love. I am here now. I Wanted more of a travel lifestyle and she was cool with that until the kids came. I feel I settled there. I just want to turn it around because I want to have a loving family.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

That poor woman. I hope the counselor is able to help and she gets some happiness.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

sensitiveguy said:


> I do struggle because she is unemotionally available. She recognizes it. Everyone in her family is as well. All siblings and parents and grandparents are divorced. I want to be passionate and loving. I like that. I hid that need for a long time and as I become more of me she is overwhelmed. As time goes on she gets colder and distant. Her brothers ex wife could not handle the lack of emotion. I go back and forth or how much is me being passive or her just being emotionally unavailable. I believe I can become more assertive but I can’t change the need for passionate love.


Look at it this way,
if you don’t stop being passive, and start being strong, assertive and confident - she will never be attracted to you or emotionally available to you anyway, And neither will any other women worth having.
So regardless of the immediate outcome, this is your only viable path forward.

Even if you do those things, she still may not be emotionally available to you.
And if that’s the case you’ll be strong enough and confident enough to leave and build a better relationship with someone new. And as a stronger, more attractive man, you’ll be in a much better position to do so.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Showed real love and adoration or just pretended? You’re saying you felt she was plain and then changed your mind? Because your initial post was present tense. Why are you staying married, are you worried about the cost of divorce and child support (if the kids are still at home)?


I want to be with my kids as much as I can. I 100% find her attractive. I love her. I probably said that because I feel hurt. I am being rejected in subtle ways. Maybe I deserve it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> I want to be with my kids as much as I can. I 100% find her attractive. I love her. I probably said that because I feel hurt. I am being rejected in subtle ways. Maybe I deserve it.


So it’s really about the kids. Lots of people stay together for the kids. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Marriage counseling is a healthy step.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> More complicated. At times I am so attracted to her and love her. Other times I want to run. We were so compatible before kids. Settling not really about looks, but about how I wanted to live my life. I should clarify more on that. I was a confused guy back then when we got together. Maybe still confused. I love her and my children and I want to have a family that shows love. I am here now. I Wanted more of a travel lifestyle and she was cool with that until the kids came. I feel I settled there. I just want to turn it around because I want to have a loving family.


We have spoken about it. I confessed about the travel. But she did not really want to get married and have kids. Just wanted to live by herself with her cats. We both settled in the lives we wanted.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So it’s really about the kids. Lots of people stay together for the kids. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Marriage counseling is a healthy step.


A lot yes. When we go away without the kids I feel we go back to being lovers like old. But with kids a different story. Confusing.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> We have spoken about it. I confessed about the travel. But she did not really want to get married and have kids. Just wanted to live by herself with her cats. We both settled in the lives we wanted.


So you talked her into marrying you when she didn’t want to, knowing you felt she was beneath you and you could do better? Now she’s trapped in a life she didn’t want with a man who thinks she isn’t good enough for him. 

That poor woman.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> A lot yes. When we go away without the kids I feel we go back to being lovers like old. But with kids a different story. Confusing.


When she is calm and nice and positive I feel great with her. When she is fueled with negativity she dumps it on me. I admit I have let her for a long time but recently settling boundaries.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So you talked her into marrying you when she didn’t want to, knowing you felt she was beneath you and you could do better? Now she’s trapped in a life she didn’t want with a man who thinks she isn’t good enough for him.
> 
> That poor woman.


I never talked her in to it. She wanted to get married. I think she was nieve. She met this great guy and was worth it. Sees how complex marriage is and kids. My daughter always asks her if she hates her because my daughter can’t get past the coldness. The coldness makes the loved one feel rejected.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> I never talked her in to it. She wanted to get married. I think she was nieve. She met this great guy and was worth it. Sees how complex marriage is and kids. My daughter always asks her if she hates her because my daughter can’t get past the coldness. The coldness makes the loved one feel rejected. She wishes now I think she stayed with her plan not to get married.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So you talked her into marrying you when she didn’t want to, knowing you felt she was beneath you and you could do better? Now she’s trapped in a life she didn’t want with a man who thinks she isn’t good enough for him.
> 
> That poor woman.


Would you stop projecting your bitter baggage on this guy. 
He didn’t trick his wife, he didn’t trap his wife, you’re so off-base on all of this it’s ridiculous.

You’re not even trying to help OP in any way.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

I don’t think she is beneath me. Just the opposite. I recognize I am a confused guy. I hurt her probably. Because of that I look at myself not better than anyone.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> I never talked her in to it. She wanted to get married. I think she was nieve. She met this great guy and was worth it. Sees how complex marriage is and kids. My daughter always asks her if she hates her because my daughter can’t get past the coldness. The coldness makes the loved one feel rejected.


You said she didn’t want marriage and children, just wanted to live alone with her cats.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You said she didn’t want marriage and children, just wanted to live alone with her cats.


Before she met me that was her plan.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

sensitiveguy said:


> I never talked her in to it. She wanted to get married. I think she was nieve. She met this great guy and was worth it. Sees how complex marriage is and kids. My daughter always asks her if she hates her because my daughter can’t get past the coldness. The coldness makes the loved one feel rejected.


OP, disregard this one. She has an established history of projecting her own irrelevant, man-hating garbage onto others.


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## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> If you want your situation to improve, you need to be willing to stand up and take control of your situation.
> 
> NMMNG is a good start. Also read Athol Kay’s Married Mans Sex Life Primer.
> 
> ...


☝☝☝

This is the whole message. Everything you need is right here. Print this and put it somewhere you will read everyday.


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## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> I do struggle because she is unemotionally available. She recognizes it. Everyone in her family is as well. All siblings and parents and grandparents are divorced. I want to be passionate and loving. I like that. I hid that need for a long time and as I become more of me she is overwhelmed. As time goes on she gets colder and distant. Her brothers ex wife could not handle the lack of emotion. I go back and forth or how much is me being passive or her just being emotionally unavailable. I believe I can become more assertive but I can’t change the need for passionate love.


You might also find Thais Gibson's videos on youtube helpful. You sound like you might have opposing attachment styles - anxious / avoidant.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's a lost cause, reading the whole story. Sorry. Stay for the kids, if you wish, but forget about sex. Or just divorce so you can have sex again.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

It’s interesting to me what we, as posters here, hone in on at times. What personally more stood out to me in your opening post was the mention that she has anxiety issues. I wondered what type of anxiety, and whether she experiences depression too, and whether her mental health (if an anxiety disorder, as opposed to fleeting moments of feeling anxious) was heightened during lock-down. That is to say, aside from her masturbating (and I agree with another poster that it doesn’t mean you have some rival for her desire) sexual interest can be impacted by mental health. Anyway, so as not to continue further down that track in this post, it’s what stood out to me and wondered what considerations / impact that may have on her - alongside if she has sought professional help. I guess as well as if there’s been changes in medications if she takes any?

I think it’s good you’re in MC together. How is that going? What insight have you discovered (if any) so far?

As to whether being less passive will reignite some desire towards you is framed too simplistically for me. There's a whole dynamic and various factors that come into the mix; and hence, why I think MC could be a good step. Note - not necessarily a good step towards desire or staying together or not; rather, opportunity for you both to potentially understand yourselves and each other through a ‘different’ and/or more clear lens in time.

In saying that, if you feel that being some kind of passive is no longer what you’re about for and within yourself, then do what’s needed to gain more congruency. For yourself.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This makes it sound like you think you settled. Do you think she doesn’t sense that?





oldshirt said:


> I get where you are coming from and there probably is something to that. But it is a vicious cycle, A man could be married to Heidi Klume but if she has zero attraction and desire for him and chronically rejects him,, she will quickly be "cute but nothing amazing" in his eyes.
> 
> Conversely, if a common Plain Jane is looking at him with googelly eyes and can't keep her hands off of him and is laying him like tile night and after night, she will be the hottest thing on the planet to him.


I think you both raise valid points here.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> It’s interesting to me what we, as posters here, hone in on at times. What personally more stood out to me in your opening post was the mention that she has anxiety issues. I wondered what type of anxiety, and whether she experiences depression too, and whether her mental health (if an anxiety disorder, as opposed to fleeting moments of feeling anxious) was heightened during lock-down. That is to say, aside from her masturbating (and I agree with another poster that it doesn’t mean you have some rival for her desire) sexual interest can be impacted by mental health. Anyway, so as not to continue further down that track in this post, it’s what stood out to me and wondered what considerations / impact that may have on her - alongside if she has sought professional help. I guess as well as if there’s been changes in medications if she takes any?
> 
> I think it’s good you’re in MC together. How is that going? What insight have you discovered (if any) so far?
> 
> ...


I assumed she was in treatment for her anxiety, but maybe she is not. Anxiety and depression are a libido killer. And if she is on any antidepressants, even more so.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sensitiveguy said:


> When she is calm and nice and positive I feel great with her. When she is fueled with negativity she dumps it on me. I admit I have let her for a long time but recently settling boundaries.


You can’t fix FOO issues and I doubt she can either. She obviously likes sex just not with you.
From what I’ve seen you are beating a dead horse. 
Let her go and free the both of you. 
Life is short and you can’t get it back.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sensitiveguy said:


> I never talked her in to it. She wanted to get married. I think she was nieve. She met this great guy and was worth it. Sees how complex marriage is and kids. My daughter always asks her if she hates her because my daughter can’t get past the coldness. The coldness makes the loved one feel rejected.


FOO issues. It’s not just you but her kids as well. You need to read up. You can’t fix this.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> FOO issues.


Exactly. I want to tell you, based on my experience, these NEVER, NEVER, NEVER change. You have a decision to make. Either you will stay with her and tolerate this, or you will leave, but there is no third option where she will "get help" or otherwise EVER be any different toward you or toward her children.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

TJW said:


> Exactly. I want to tell you, based on my experience, these NEVER, NEVER, NEVER change. You have a decision to make. Either you will stay with her and tolerate this, or you will leave, but there is no third option where she will "get help" or otherwise EVER be any different toward you or toward her children.


^^^^^ correct. People for the most part do not change.
Most people can’t make a decision. So they just stay. Where do you want to be a year or 5 years from now?
Then figure out what you have to to get there.
When my sister got married the reason was everyone else was. They were incompatible. It gets worse over time. 
Im staying for the kids is an excuse to not make a decision.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

sensitiveguy said:


> I never talked her in to it. She wanted to get married. I think she was nieve. She met this great guy and was worth it. Sees how complex marriage is and kids. *My daughter always asks her if she hates her because my daughter can’t get past the coldness. The coldness makes the loved one feel rejected.*


This is a problem, and not of your making, OP.

It is one thing for her to treat you that to way. But her own daughter?



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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

sensitiveguy said:


> Before the pandemic we had sex but maybe every two weeks. I would have sex every night if she wanted. I like the emotional sexual connection. After the pandemic our issues surfaced. I realized I am a nice guy. Someone that is passive. She slowly moved away from me. I communicated with her and now in marriage counseling. She wants no sex. But at times she flirts and I feel romantic connection. She has anxiety issues and I support mad hug her. Then bam super cold. If I touch her I can feel her stiffen up. Last night she woke me up pleasing herself. I felt horrible with the idea of her thinking of having sex with someone as she lay next to me. We have two kids. So she does not want to separate. She asks for patience with me in regard to sex. I know passive emotional men maybe not attractive. Something I am working on with the no more mr nice guy program. But the idea she has no desire for me hurts. My question is will the desire ever come back if I become less passive. On testosterone now. I lost a testicle in my 20s. I am feeling more confident and less passive. Still feels horrible to think she has no attraction for me. She is cute but nothing amazing fyi.


Depends...NMMNG turned my marriage around. After 2 kids our sex life was ~3x month. Which is not near enough for a man that feels love and connection through physical intimacy. I felt alone and unloved. It is not in me to cheat so I searched for change. 

I tried to do more, already was doing half the house work. As final shot I dropped 60 lbs, buffed up and being being more distant/un-needy. I quit initiating, took off the rose colored glasses and realized that I was the prize. Kind of started getting a screw her mentality. I will make myself the best me and she can get on board, or I can leave and hit the ground running and looking good. 

Wife realized I was checking out and she **** a brick. She thought I was already out the door. Then we started communicating, really communicating. She then realized that sex was MUCH more than just a physical activity to me. It is the emotional ropes that keep me bound to her. 

I also stopped holding in the anger/pain, etc. When she did something I had issues with. I started speaking my mind and standing my ground. I was not going to be pushed around. A husband that a woman can't boss around is much more appealing. 

Before, I met my wife at 27, I was 24, she was 🔥, 5'03" blue eyed brunette, size 1 with 34 full C cup. In my eyes I was the an average looking big country boy that wondered what this fine Texas filly saw in me. I put her on the pedestal. 

Now she sees me as the prize. She only ever trusted 2 men in her life, her grandfather and me. She tells me daily that she is grateful for me and that I did not leave. She realizes she almost lost me and that saddens her and she has apologized for her past behavior.

We are 50 and 53 now and physical intimacy is usually 4 days a week.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

NMMNG might work if your wife hasn't detached or has mental problems, etc... otherwise, it's a total waste of time. In fact, your wife will be happy you are detaching yourself.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> NMMNG might work if your wife hasn't detached or has mental problems, etc... otherwise, it's a total waste of time. In fact, your wife will be happy you are detaching yourself.


The entire premise of this post is flawed.

You don't pick up that book to try and improve your marriage. You pick up that book to try and improve yourself, thereby making you more capable of improving your marriage.

Self-improvement is NEVER a waste of time.

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> Depends...NMMNG turned my marriage around. After 2 kids our sex life was ~3x month. Which is not near enough for a man that feels love and connection through physical intimacy. I felt alone and unloved. It is not in me to cheat so I searched for change.
> 
> I tried to do more, already was doing half the house work. As final shot I dropped 60 lbs, buffed up and being being more distant/un-needy. I quit initiating, took off the rose colored glasses and realized that I was the prize. Kind of started getting a screw her mentality. I will make myself the best me and she can get on board, or I can leave and hit the ground running and looking good.
> 
> ...


OP, similar circumstances brought me to this site in 2014. I followed a very similar path of the quoted poster.

It is possible for you to improve your marriage. However, that will not happen without first improving yourself.

There are also no guarantees that improving yourself will actually improve your marriage. But what I can promise you is that if you don't improve yourself, you will never improve your marriage.

Working on yourself is the only winning move for you at this point.

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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I've read your other threads. 

It appears your wife does not provide a healthy, non toxic, caring partnership to you (or to your children). I think sex sounds like the least of your relationship woes. I doubt anything is going to change her core personality. I'd stick a fork in it, it's done, if I were you.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

Fly With Me said:


> You might also find Thais Gibson's videos on youtube helpful. You sound like you might have opposing attachment styles - anxious / avoidant.


This is exactly correct.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> The entire premise of this post is flawed.
> 
> You don't pick up that book to try and improve your marriage. You pick up that book to try and improve yourself, thereby making you more capable of improving your marriage.
> 
> ...


Ah, yes, I forgot that you have to improve yourself first...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Many times people think if it’s all my fault I can fix this. Faulty thinking.
Rarely are marital problems one sided. 
Treating her kids the same as she treats you is telling.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> OP, similar circumstances brought me to this site in 2014. I followed a very similar path of the quoted poster.
> 
> It is possible for you to improve your marriage. However, that will not happen without first improving yourself.
> 
> ...


I came here 2 weeks after you did.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> OP, similar circumstances brought me to this site in 2014. I followed a very similar path of the quoted poster.
> 
> It is possible for you to improve your marriage. However, that will not happen without first improving yourself.
> 
> ...


Exactly. I dropped 60 lbs in 6 weeks, hit the weights hard and was looking like a different person. One that was not tolerating **** my wife was throwing at me due to her own issues.

I was ready to exit the station looking damn good. She realized her issue and she jumped on board before I pulled away from the platform. 

Our marriage has been awesome the past 7 or so years. Abundant sex. I can't say that in that time she has really denied me. Then again she thinks I am like a sexual guru that leaves her very, very satisfied. She makes out like a bandit...in spades.

After 26 yrs together, it is like honeymoon stage again the past 7 yrs. She can't keep her hands off my muscles, which turns her on. At 50, i have more muscle than ever in my life. She walks by me in the dining room and grabs my crotch and says she needs this! People think we are newly weds in public with our interactions, PDAs and hand holding.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Divinely Favored said:


> Exactly. I dropped 60 lbs in 6 weeks, hit the weights hard and was looking like a different person. One that was not tolerating **** my wife was throwing at me due to her own issues.
> 
> I was ready to exit the station looking damn good. She realized her issue and she jumped on board before I pulled away from the platform.
> 
> ...


You just proved life is your choice.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> OP, disregard this one. She has an established history of projecting her own irrelevant, man-hating garbage onto others.


I have the person blocked so cannot see the comments you are referring to. TexasMom?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> Exactly. I dropped 60 lbs in 6 weeks, hit the weights hard and was looking like a different person. One that was not tolerating **** my wife was throwing at me due to her own issues.
> 
> I was ready to exit the station looking damn good. She realized her issue and she jumped on board before I pulled away from the platform.
> 
> ...


Very similar here.

OP, you have two examples of men who improved their marriages by first improving themselves. 

Most people who come to this site with marital problems are so consumed with how to 'fix' their partner that they refuse to even acknowledge that there is something in themselves that needs to be addressed. 

Those same posters are the ones who either disappear from this site never to return, or they come back a year later and NOTHING has changed. We see it time and time again. 

Start with yourself. Find ways to make yourself a better man. NMMNG is a start. So is Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s by Wayne Levine. 

Equip yourself so that you will be okay whether your marriage continues or not. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

sensitiveguy said:


> Before the pandemic we had sex but maybe every two weeks. I would have sex every night if she wanted. I like the emotional sexual connection. After the pandemic our issues surfaced. I realized I am a nice guy. Someone that is passive. She slowly moved away from me. I communicated with her and now in marriage counseling. She wants no sex. But at times she flirts and I feel romantic connection. She has anxiety issues and I support mad hug her. Then bam super cold. If I touch her I can feel her stiffen up. Last night she woke me up pleasing herself. I felt horrible with the idea of her thinking of having sex with someone as she lay next to me. We have two kids. So she does not want to separate. She asks for patience with me in regard to sex. I know passive emotional men maybe not attractive. Something I am working on with the no more mr nice guy program. But the idea she has no desire for me hurts. My question is will the desire ever come back if I become less passive. On testosterone now. I lost a testicle in my 20s. I am feeling more confident and less passive. Still feels horrible to think she has no attraction for me. She is cute but nothing amazing fyi.


She's playing you like a fiddle. IMO, denying you sex and getting her self off in your bed in front of you is the ultimate disrespect.

Here is an action plan for you:

1. Study up on the 180. Implement it fully.

2. Read Glover's "No More Mr. Nice Guy," available for free as a download. Learn it and live it.

3. Decide what you want, and prepare a series of choices for her. When my wife pulled that on me (and I tolerated it for far too long,) I gave her three options. The only one she found palatable was working on the marriage. I gave her the full
blown ultimatum on a Wednesday, and gave her until Sunday to decide. I was ready to call the lawyer Monday morning. She seduced me Saturday night. We have had sex at least weekly since (at least when one or not both of us is clearly 
ill.) Things have been like they were when we were dating since (and we met for the first time, 30 years ago yesterday.)

Time for you to take charge of your own destiny.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

uwe.blab said:


> I have the person blocked so cannot see the comments you are referring to. TexasMom?


Same. I can only assume so.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

sensitiveguy said:


> Before the pandemic we had sex but maybe every two weeks. I would have sex every night if she wanted. I like the emotional sexual connection. After the pandemic our issues surfaced. I realized I am a nice guy. Someone that is passive. She slowly moved away from me. I communicated with her and now in marriage counseling. She wants no sex. But at times she flirts and I feel romantic connection. She has anxiety issues and I support mad hug her. Then bam super cold. If I touch her I can feel her stiffen up. Last night she woke me up pleasing herself. I felt horrible with the idea of her thinking of having sex with someone as she lay next to me. We have two kids. So she does not want to separate. She asks for patience with me in regard to sex. I know passive emotional men maybe not attractive. Something I am working on with the no more mr nice guy program. But the idea she has no desire for me hurts. My question is will the desire ever come back if I become less passive. On testosterone now. I lost a testicle in my 20s. I am feeling more confident and less passive. Still feels horrible to think she has no attraction for me. She is cute but nothing amazing fyi.


Am I going to be the first one to say that her “anxiety issues” would disappear if she were to jump onto another penis? I’ve been married for 20 years and have gone through every marital stage known to mankind and have found out that the best to approach females was best said by Chris Rock: “It doesn’t matter if you are a billionaire, have the build/stamina of an athlete, have 10 mansions and a 12’ rotating diamond-encrusted ****, the time will come when the wife you’ve taken from fish stick to premium Norwegian lobster will ask you ‘what have you ever done for me’ without batting an eyelash.”

As males we have to first realize that we are dealing with seriously screwed up human beings that will FLIP on you eventually. Insert here […] whatever reason your heart desires. Women are built and wired to ALWAYS think they could’ve done better than you. It’s the reason they initiate 80% of all divorces and the gender than ends up living alone more often.

Us males aren’t taught about 1) how to deal with this **** and 2) one the **** hits the fan, how to deal with it. WE, males, are not the problem. Women will blame her cheating on you on the most outlandish reasons. They will pick whatever you are most insecure about and River dance on your last nerve until you either 1) desist or 2) succumb. They get a kick out of controlling you. It’s a power trip you only control if you dump her ass.

Fast forward to the issue du jour… it’s all a function of how far you want to take it and how much you love your wife. You can turn into an alpha male, eat only what you hunt and fish and flirt with a thousand women, eventually that will ALSO get stale. Been there, done that. Upping the sex mileage only works short term. Eventually sex gets stale too, primarily because women tend to be rather boring and bad in the sac. It took me years, YEARS! to get my significant other to try multiple postures.

Moral of the story: long term, this movie does not have a happy ending. You’re asking a question that can’t be answered, truly, by anyone but yourself. It’s YOUR decisions, and YOURS only as to how best proceed based on how bad you want to save the relationship. If you break it up, you WILL survive and thrive. If you don’t, and succumb to her requests, she will turn you into a puppet of your former self because people are people and do not know how to deal with the fact that someone just gave her the entire control of the relationship. NEVER, EVER, change or forfeit your control.

Wish you all the luck.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Jakobs said:


> Am I going to be the first one to say that her “anxiety issues” would disappear if she were to jump onto another penis? I’ve been married for 20 years and have gone through every marital stage known to mankind and have found out that the best to approach females was best said by Chris Rock: “It doesn’t matter if you are a billionaire, have the build/stamina of an athlete, have 10 mansions and a 12’ rotating diamond-encrusted ****, the time will come when the wife you’ve taken from fish stick to premium Norwegian lobster will ask you ‘what have you ever done for me’ without batting an eyelash.”
> 
> As males we have to first realize that we are dealing with seriously screwed up human beings that will FLIP on you eventually. Insert here […] whatever reason your heart desires. Women are built and wired to ALWAYS think they could’ve done better than you. It’s the reason they initiate 80% of all divorces and the gender than ends up living alone more often.
> 
> ...


Interesting take. So you are still married after figuring this out? Is it terrible? If it is good, what did you do to get it there?


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

Seriously, one of the most important classes that ought to be taught to males at every academic level is how to deal with women. I bey my right testicle that tor three semesters of knowing about the nature of the beast would cut male suicide in half.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Jakobs said:


> Seriously, one of the most important classes that ought to be taught to males at every academic level is how to deal with women. *I bet my right testicle* that tor three semesters of knowing about the nature of the beast would cut male suicide in half.


The OP is missing a testicle...


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

tittle of your post: 
*Wife does not want sex*

Solution: YOU GET A NEW WIFE OR NEW WOMAN. 

Of course, you won't do a thing other than pathetic, beta talk that in reality won't do a thing for you. Must guys like you that's where they end up...same spot, never moving. As time passes, at least you'll be oblivious to what sex is... eventually. And for your info, as time passes she'll have less and less interest or desire for sex, whether with you or some other dude. That's your reality there. Lets not even talk about how messed up she is. The magic potion you're looking for exist... the name is NEW WOMAN.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> Interesting take. So you are still married after figuring this out? Is it terrible? If it is good, what did you do to get it there?


Oh, I haven’t figured anything out, it’t a work in progress and I expect it to be til the day I die. It’s an emotional tug of war. Every day. Every week. Every year. I think what saved my marriage is that we have similar goals (delivering a healthy male to society, retiring early and moving to a hot place,) like to travel and are $ecure.

If I had to get specific… I’d say that the moment I realized my wife had a “reptilian brain” (see Clotaire Rapaille) was when I and the other 10 males attending a lamas class were taken to an isolated room in the hospital basement and were told that our wives were about to become emotionally and physically unavailable for many months and that it was all based on the “build the nest” feeling. We were told that our wives were essentially going to become mothers and that, sadly, some were NOT going to be wives again.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> tittle of your post:
> *Wife does not want sex*
> 
> Solution: YOU GET A NEW WIFE OR NEW WOMAN.
> ...


Oh, here comes Rambo…


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If you have a bluetick that won’t run a raccoon,
A beagle that won’t run rabbits, a pointer that’s doesn’t point birds, a retriever that won’t fetch—— what do you do???????

You give them away to some poor sap that doesn’t care, that just wants them for a pet.

I’m a practical person, and a realist.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Jakobs said:


> Oh, here comes Rambo…


No, here comes reality for you. Reality which you have been refusing to acknowledge. And for your info, I know what I'm talking about. As a matter of fact what i did was to get a new woman. Problem solved. Oh, and by the way, I will call you in ten years. I know you'll be there... in the same spot you are now.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Jakobs said:


> Oh, I haven’t figured anything out, it’t a work in progress and I expect it to be til the day I die. It’s an emotional tug of war. Every day. Every week. Every year. I think what saved my marriage is that we have similar goals (delivering a healthy male to society, retiring early and moving to a hot place,) like to travel and are $ecure.
> 
> If I had to get specific… I’d say that the moment I realized my wife had a “reptilian brain” (see Clotaire Rapaille) was when I and the other 10 males attending a lamas class were taken to an isolated room in the hospital basement and were told that our wives were about to become emotionally and physically unavailable for many months and that it was all based on the “build the nest” feeling. We were told that our wives were essentially going to become mothers and that, sadly, some were NOT going to be wives again.


Ok so you have come to a conclusion about women in general. Are you happy in your own marriage? I think if I legit felt that my wife thought she could do better I would just be fine being without her. ( I would not have thought this way when I was in my 20s). 

Or are the goals-- the parenting, financial security and retirement stuff-- enough, even though you may not even love her anymore....

Totally appreciate your perspective so just trying to get a better grasp here. And obviously comparing it to my own life.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sensitiveguy said:


> I want to be with my kids as much as I can. I 100% find her attractive. I love her. I probably said that because I feel hurt. I am being rejected in subtle ways. Maybe I deserve it.


I don't know where you live but in the United States if you did divorce you would most likely get 50% custody of the kids. So you'll get to see them plenty and do everything for them when you have them as she will when you don't. But that leaves you the other half of the time to get your traveling out of the way or to take the kids with you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

sensitiveguy said:


> A lot yes. When we go away without the kids I feel we go back to being lovers like old. But with kids a different story. Confusing.


Welcome to adulting.


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> Ok so you have come to a conclusion about women in general. Are you happy in your own marriage? I think if I legit felt that my wife thought she could do better I would just be fine being without her. ( I would not have thought this way when I was in my 20s).
> 
> Or are the goals-- the parenting, financial security and retirement stuff-- enough, even though you may not even love her anymore....
> 
> Totally appreciate your perspective so just trying to get a better grasp here. And obviously comparing it to my own life.


Things have changed. I see the marriage as a project and we both agree that our kid is the priority. But we DO love each other.

With age I’ve learned that it’s best to 1) eat when hungry, 2) drink when thirsty and 3) have sex when horny. We have sex about once a week, but when we do we both REALLY freaking enjoy it. I climax like Peter North and she looks and sounds like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. I guess you could say we found some happy sex middle ground.

As far as my opinion in women goes, I really don’t think it’s their fault for wanting the beat male they can get. It’s their fathers raising them to want a 10 when they’re really a 5. Fathers of females are literally destroying their daughters lives because they’re forcing them into essentially becoming females with penises. It’s sad. And then you have The Sex in the Cities ******** stories pushing lives onto women that directly contradict what women really want. They are as crossed as we are because we’re not being educated to understand each other’s needs and wants.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Jakobs said:


> Things have changed. I see the marriage as a project and we both agree that our kid is the priority. But we DO love each other.
> 
> With age I’ve learned that it’s best to 1) eat when hungry, 2) drink when thirsty and 3) have sex when horny. We have sex about once a week, but when we do we both REALLY freaking enjoy it. I climax like Peter North and she looks and sounds like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. I guess you could say we found some happy sex middle ground.
> 
> As far as my opinion in women goes, I really don’t think it’s their fault for wanting the beat male they can get. It’s their fathers raising them to want a 10 when they’re really a 5. Fathers of females are literally destroying their daughters lives because they’re forcing them into essentially becoming females with penises. It’s sad. And then you have The Sex in the Cities ****** stories pushing lives onto women that directly contradict what women really want. They are as crossed as we are because we’re not being educated to understand each other’s needs and wants.


I have a daughter. 

Anyway, I am just thinking about my own marriage and it is not perfect. There are times-- too many-- when I really do not want the drama (blended family is a huge contributor) and I start to think that we want VERY different things out of this marriage....and is LOVE alone going to hold it together? and do I even love her sometimes? and what is her motive for doing this or that....? 

Just rambling but your thoughts have allowed me to look at things from a different angle. I think my wife would not be ok with staying married with all the benefits but not feeling totally loved....


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## lucyruiz1875 (6 mo ago)

As a woman and someone who has anxiety myself... First off, if she is taking meds like antidepressants or anxiety pills, sex drive is just OFF. I was in those meds for about 2 years and when I finally got off them it was like I was 16 again... 
Another thing. If you cheated on her, and you actually said she's ''cute'' but not super, boy she has reasons to not want to have sex with you. At least I wouldn't and you shouldn't be too pushy about it, either. Just try, make moves, if she rejects you then ok... you won't die, but the question really is, are YOU happy in this marriage?
I have a child and Ive been single for four years, since I had him (behaviour issues with the dad) and my life has never been better. I do not think in any ways staying in a relationship for the kids its either good for the couple or for the kids themselves. They can always sense that you don't love each other. I saw that all the time as a kid with my parents and when I was like 10, I asked my mother why they don't get a divorce, and me and my sister were the ones who actually encouraged it. Don't wait if you don't think you can support her, you are saying you are ''super'' supportive but I do not think it's true.
But I know first hand it cand be very difficult dealing with someone that has anxiety and depression. Its really not for everyone.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Jakobs said:


> As far as my opinion in women goes, I really don’t think it’s their fault for wanting the beat male they can get. It’s their fathers raising them to want a 10 when they’re really a 5. Fathers of females are literally destroying their daughters lives because they’re forcing them into essentially becoming females with penises. It’s sad. And then you have The Sex in the Cities ****** stories pushing lives onto women that directly contradict what women really want. They are as crossed as we are because we’re not being educated to understand each other’s needs and wants.


" I beg to diffuh, suh, we started a game we never got to finish"..

Seriously though, I have daughters, never have I advised them to seek the best male, or a ten. What I do advise them is to be humble, be nice, respect and accept not disrespect. I advise them to be happy, to set boundaries, to respect their partners boundaries, to appreciate a good decent partner and to be a good partner. 

I think what happens with most relationships is once the shiny wears off, you're off to greener pastures. In my case, X lost weight, got a boob job, started getting attention from other males, then she realized she could do better 🙄.
Found out the hard way and 15 yrs later, it wasn't what she thought. 

OP, just as others have advised, become the best version of yourself, don't be an a-hole but definitely don't be a doormat. If she comes around, good for you guys, if not , her loss but at least you walk away a better man for someone who appreciates you.


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## Aloneinmarriage (6 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This makes it sound like you think you settled. Do you think she doesn’t sense that?


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

lucyruiz1875 said:


> I do not think in any ways staying in a relationship for the kids its either good for the couple or for the kids themselves.


It’s the opposite actually: kids DO benefit from both parents staying in the relationship. The DO NOT benefit from parents who constantly engage in fights and arguments in front of the kid. Kid’s needs, from a Maslowian perspective, are easy: Food and shelter. They need constant access to food and an environment that guarantees their safety. They take care of the rest.

The root of your own relationship’s woes is probably your husband feeling like he gained a mother but lost a wife. And this stems from the fact that we as males have NO IDEA what happens to females when becoming mothers. YOU know what to expect but we have no idea. It’s like we got ran over by a sixteen wheeler and everyone keeps telling you to dust off and keep going.

A male’s life is a very lonely place you know…


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## Jakobs (6 mo ago)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Seriously though, I have daughters, never have I advised them to seek the best male, or a ten. What I do advise them is to be humble, be nice, respect and accept not disrespect. I advise them to be happy, to set boundaries, to respect their partners boundaries, to appreciate a good decent partner and to be a good partner.


And I’m sure you do but, sadly, the majority of daughters are not being raised your way. These girls are being raised to want a feminized version of men, someone who is “high value” and compliments their needs (a tool). It’s no wonder the divorce rates are skyrocketing because girls are being raised to want men they eventually realize they deeply dislike.



> I think what happens with most relationships is once the shiny wears off, you're off to greener pastures. In my case, X lost weight, got a boob job, started getting attention from other males, then she realized she could do better 🙄.
> Found out the hard way and 15 yrs later, it wasn't what she thought.


Yeah, jumping from male to male is surely going to make an impression. You really pre-frontal cortex loaded that one, didn’t you? 

There’s an old and very wise Chinese proverb that basically translates to “it’s best to grow a beautiful flower to its fullest potential than a garden full of dying flowers.”


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## Schek (Jul 2, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> If you want your situation to improve, you need to be willing to stand up and take control of your situation.
> 
> NMMNG is a good start. Also read Athol Kay’s Married Mans Sex Life Primer.
> 
> ...


Wow. So ditch the marriage counseling and claim to be the boss & she'll do what you want? Just leave now and save yourself 6 months. I don't know a woman who would respond positively to this. If she did respond to this for a bit, you can bet your ass she'll be looking for more of a partner very shortly thereafter. Cut bait now and find someone - an equal partner - who shares your interests and desires. You deserve to be happy and so does she. She doesn't need another "boss" or authoritatian father figure though. One other point - take a 2nd look at your love/sex life. A lot of men think they're awesome in bed when they are not. If you're offering the same stale moves expecting fireworks, it'll never happen.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

[/QUOTE]


oldshirt said:


> A woman that has zero desire and no sexual responsiveness and continually rejects a guy, will soon be just another face in the crowd and just another one of 7 billion human beings on planet; nothing special at all no matter how objectively good looking she may be.


QFT. Ladies often don't get this part, and are surprised (possibly offended) when a guy not getting sex treats her differently after a while.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

sensitiveguy said:


> I never talked her in to it. She wanted to get married. I think she was nieve. She met this great guy and was worth it. Sees how complex marriage is and kids. My daughter always asks her if she hates her because my daughter can’t get past the coldness. The coldness makes the loved one feel rejected.


This could be my ex. Wanted the married life until the reality set in. If your W doesn't come around, she's going to lose you and your daughter, just like my.ex did.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

sensitiveguy said:


> I want to be with my kids as much as I can. I 100% find her attractive. I love her. I probably said that because I feel hurt. I am being rejected in subtle ways. Maybe I deserve it.


First of all, we all need to take responsibility for our own happiness.

In some respects I was in a similar situation. You're being in counseling may be good or not. I insisted that my wife and i see a marriage counselor that was a board certified sex therapist, as our problem related to the lack of sex and her lack of sexual desire for me. I worked hard to stop being a Glover Nice Guy and I also worked hard to make my wife feel loved and cherished.

I was mentored in that by my dog, who taught me what it feels like to be unconditionally, emotionally loved. I worked hard at making my wife feel loved and cherished during our counseling. Ultimately the ST got through to my wife and made her face THE QUESTION, "If you never have sex with this man again, what do you think will eventually happen?" My wife finally answered and said we would probably divorce. The ST said that in her professional experience counseling over a thousand client, my wife was right, we would divorce. Then the ST told my wife that she had a choice to make about sex and her choice would have consequences of divorce or continuing to stay married. The ST gave us exercises and homework to help build back sensual and sexual feelings between us, help us communicate about sexual issues, and better express our feelings to each other.

You need an ST not a general marriage counselor if I understand your situation correctly. You might want to read David Schnarch's book Intimacy and Desire to better understand how one can build back sexual desire between two people. When my wife first read parts of Schnarch after I introduced some of his books to her, she told me she didn't want that much intimacy. The ST helped us negotiate a loving sexual relationship about 12 years ago. It is not perfect, but it is a compromise we can both find happiness with and enjoy.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Last year you wrote: "She keeps saying we are not meant for each other. ....She makes me feel like a horrible person. The idea of separating with two young kids seems horrendous."

Has she told you I love you but not in love with you yet? Kind of sounds like she is done and when that occurs there is no fix she has checked out. Dragging it on is only more misery.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

DTO said:


> a guy not getting sex treats her differently after a while.


Yep. Exactly. They say "we have no life" because we QUIT. No sex = no marriage. We retreat back into your own world, do things which trip OUR trigger. Why the hell do I want to go anywhere, do anything with her ? Waste my time on activities, family, utter boredom? If she doesn't want sex with me, I don't want to spend my time. I especially don't want to talk. What I want to do is shut up and do something productive. I don't want to visit grandchildren and be ignored completely for 6 hours. I don't want to go to spring festivals. I have no interest.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> Before the pandemic we had sex but maybe every two weeks. I would have sex every night if she wanted. I like the emotional sexual connection. After the pandemic our issues surfaced. I realized I am a nice guy. Someone that is passive. She slowly moved away from me. I communicated with her and now in marriage counseling. She wants no sex. But at times she flirts and I feel romantic connection. She has anxiety issues and I support mad hug her. Then bam super cold. If I touch her I can feel her stiffen up. Last night she woke me up pleasing herself. I felt horrible with the idea of her thinking of having sex with someone as she lay next to me. We have two kids. So she does not want to separate. She asks for patience with me in regard to sex. I know passive emotional men maybe not attractive. Something I am working on with the no more mr nice guy program. But the idea she has no desire for me hurts. My question is will the desire ever come back if I become less passive. On testosterone now. I lost a testicle in my 20s. I am feeling more confident and less passive. Still feels horrible to think she has no attraction for me. She is cute but nothing amazing fyi.


Read 8 questions by gotten, and what makes marriage work, learn how to seduce each other.
Do it now, have the talk, both need to do what it takes, give deadline in 3 months, in November, say to each other, either us and making love is fixed or you leave in June 2023.
When it comes to marital sex, there is no fudging,
Life is too short, its even shorter when emotional intimacy isn't there either.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TJW said:


> Yep. Exactly. They say "we have no life" because we QUIT. No sex = no marriage. We retreat back into your own world, do things which trip OUR trigger. Why the hell do I want to go anywhere, do anything with her ? Waste my time on activities, family, utter boredom? If she doesn't want sex with me, I don't want to spend my time. I especially don't want to talk. What I want to do is shut up and do something productive. I don't want to visit grandchildren and be ignored completely for 6 hours. I don't want to go to spring festivals. I have no interest.


I just did my own thing. My ex withheld sex so I iced her. I spent time with my kid, family, and work. She complained about how unhappy she was, but those are the breaks.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

I have had conversations with my wife when she is emotional. She has told me I am unattractive, not sure she wants to be with me, and not sure she wants a divorce. Other times she says she loves me and could never see us apart. I am confused. Marriage for me is we stick together and learn and grow no matter hard it is. Do she need me to stand up more and show more man? For example, not too crumble and show her I am here. Or she is just wasting time tryin to get the courage to leave me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sensitiveguy said:


> I have had conversations with my wife when she is emotional. She has told me I am unattractive, not sure she wants to be with me, and not sure she wants a divorce. Other times she says she loves me and could never see us apart. I am confused. Marriage for me is we stick together and learn and grow no matter hard it is. Do she need me to stand up more and show more man? For example, not too crumble and show her I am here. Or she is just wasting time tryin to get the courage to leave me.


Things are certainly going nuclear. The first part is sad but I'm hearing finality there.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

sensitiveguy said:


> I have had conversations with my wife when she is emotional. She has told me I am unattractive, not sure she wants to be with me, and not sure she wants a divorce. Other times she says she loves me and could never see us apart. I am confused. Marriage for me is we stick together and learn and grow no matter hard it is. Do she need me to stand up more and show more man? For example, not too crumble and show her I am here. Or she is just wasting time tryin to get the courage to leave me.


My take is that she wants the benefits of being married but isn't interested in you at all. So she stays in the marriage but offers you nothing in the way of a relationship, just roommate and co parents stuff. That's all she wants. 

I'd be getting ready to exit the relationship. I don’t think self improvement is going to make a difference in regards to her and this relationship.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You could suddenly get bit by a spider and grow big muscles, long silky hair, etc etc….
Her feelings toward you would not change.
Go find a woman that loves you and it one that just wants to use you


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

Livvie said:


> My take is that she wants the benefits of being married but isn't interested in you at all. So she stays in the marriage but offers you nothing in the way of a relationship, just roommate and co parents stuff. That's all she wants.
> 
> I'd be getting ready to exit the relationship. I don’t think self improvement is going to make a difference in regards to her and this relationship.


Perhaps, we went to marriage counseling today and the way she is with the therapist is different. Nicer. Puts on a different face.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sensitiveguy said:


> Perhaps, we went to marriage counseling today and the way she is with the therapist is different. Nicer. Puts on a different face.


Hopium is never a good substance to abuse....


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> Perhaps, we went to marriage counseling today and the way she is with the therapist is different. Nicer. Puts on a different face.


I would bring that up in therapy. She is just putting on a show.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

Livvie said:


> My take is that she wants the benefits of being married but isn't interested in you at all. So she stays in the marriage but offers you nothing in the way of a relationship, just roommate and co parents stuff. That's all she wants.
> 
> I'd be getting ready to exit the relationship. I don’t think self improvement is going to make a difference in regards to her and this relationship.


She says she needs to understand herself before making any decisions.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Okay, so then work on getting out while she "figures herself out". Tell her you have zero desire to be her backup plan or be with someone who is "meh" about you.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

I do want to add that I had a chronic illness over the last 8 years that reduced my mojo. This also played a part in her falling out of love. Recently I have made good progress in my health. My mojo is somewhat back doing more around the house. I will take one advice over the next 6 months and see if any changes are made then if not start to plan an exit.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Livvie said:


> My take is that she wants the benefits of being married but isn't interested in you at all. So she stays in the marriage but offers you nothing in the way of a relationship, just roommate and co parents stuff. That's all she wants.
> 
> I'd be getting ready to exit the relationship. I don’t think self improvement is going to make a difference in regards to her and this relationship.


This is the story of at least a dozen years of my life. I achieved some of what I wanted to, but the price, in terms of years spent being miserable, and years of my kids missing out on seeing healthy relationship behaviors, was extremely high. If you are letting fear or uncertainty about change keep you tied to her, weigh the costs carefully. If you let yourself imagine it, despite the discomfort in doing so, you may find it is easy to predict where you are headed staying with someone that treats you as she does, approaches relationships as she does.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

QFT. Ladies often don't get this part, and are surprised (possibly offended) when a guy not getting sex treats her differently after a while.
[/QUOTE]

You know what they call a woman that is about your same age that you live with and don't have sex with? 


Sister.....

A man does not have any loving feelings toward his sister. SO that will not make love to her man will soon be in the same category. Once a man moves her to that status, hard to come back from that due to his resentment.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> She says she needs to understand herself before making any decisions.


Nah that’s bullcrap, she understands herself just fine.

She’s simply keeping you around to help out around the house and help pays bills until a stronger man comes along for her.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> You know what they call a woman that is about your same age that you live with and don't have sex with?
> 
> 
> Sister.....


Pretty much. A family member you care about but there’s nothing romantic going on.

I used this line of reasoning on my wife when we had “the talk”. We were still having sex a couple times a month but she got the point. 

Every time I come back to this thread and see the OP picked sensitiveguy as a name it makes me cringe. That’s not how you get out of it, trying to rationalize what is happening and chalking it up to character or something like that.

To advance things forward you need to be prepared to give it all up and start again.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> I will take one advice over the next 6 months and see if any changes are made then if not start to plan an exit.


dude, don't be so ridiculous. If that's the path you're taking, then why in the world will you be waiting for 6 six months and then start your exit plan. NOOOOOO, you start your exit plan right now, so that when the six months come, I you decide that is a no go, then, you're ready to bail at that moment. Do you see it now???


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> dude, don't be so ridiculous. If that's the path you're taking, then why in the world will you be waiting for 6 six months and then start your exit plan. NOOOOOO, you start your exit plan right now, so that when the six months come, I you decide that is a no go, then, you're ready to bail at that moment. Do you see it now???


Because in 6 months a miracle might happen and she may see the error of her ways. And it gives him time to keep kicking the can down the road. I'll give them 6 months is code for I ain't doing ****. You either act or react and she will be the one filing for divorce not him. Either before of after she cheats on him is yet to be seen.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

sensitiveguy said:


> She says she needs to understand herself before making any decisions.


Which gives absolutely ZERO consideration towards what you want or need. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Which gives absolutely ZERO consideration towards what you want or need.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


In the no more mr nice guy it says to take a break from sex so it does not get in the to way of recovery. Some of my energy is manipulating to get sex and once I have it I am distant. I admit to that. Been conscious of correcting that. Given that context is she right?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

sensitiveguy said:


> She has told me I am unattractive





Livvie said:


> she wants the benefits of being married but isn't interested in you at all.


I'd be willing to bet that these things were both true since the beginning of your relationship.
Any physical interest she showed you was fake.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

TJW said:


> I'd be willing to bet that these things were both true since the beginning of your relationship.
> Any physical interest she showed you was fake.


Not true. I had a chronic illness after second daughter was born. That is when the interest starting waning. Admitted I was not myself and my mojo was half of what it was. She also has a lot of resentment over not setting boundaries with my parents, moving for my work, moving from our more recent neighborhood to a nicer one. She does not like the new one. I pushed for it. I agree with her. I wanted to move farther away but she wanted to be closer so it was a compromise that turned bad. She holds so much against me. I realize my issue is that I allow her to push my buttons. I am learning if I reveal a button she will find it and exploit it.


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## cocolo2019 (Aug 21, 2019)

OP, check first if there is a probability of cheating. Review the phone bill for any red flags.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

sensitiveguy said:


> Not true. I had a chronic illness after second daughter was born. That is when the interest starting waning. Admitted I was not myself and my mojo was half of what it was. She also has a lot of resentment over not setting boundaries with my parents, moving for my work, moving from our more recent neighborhood to a nicer one. She does not like the new one. I pushed for it. I agree with her. I wanted to move farther away but she wanted to be closer so it was a compromise that turned bad. She holds so much against me. I realize my issue is that I allow her to push my buttons. I am learning if I reveal a button she will find it and exploit it.


1. She’s not in love with you. All of these multitude of resentments always pop up and become exacerbated when a wife is not in love with her husband. When she is, these things rarely present them selves unless the resentments stem from consistently bad/useless behavior.
2. Of course she pushes any button that you present to her. Stop being emotionally reactive and stop presenting her with buttons to push.
Women viscerally turned off by overly sensitive, passive, weak men.
And when they say that they want a sensitive man who can be vulnerable with her, that’s true - partially and in context. When she means though, is that she wants a strong, masculine man who confidently leads the way - that shows the occasional fleeting glimpse of weakness/vulnerability and a bit of sensitivity now and then.
The fact that you would even choose the name sensitiveguy is an indicator of at least part of the problem here.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

sensitiveguy said:


> In the no more mr nice guy it says to take a break from sex so it does not get in the to way of recovery. Some of my energy is manipulating to get sex and once I have it I am distant. I admit to that. Been conscious of correcting that. Given that context is she right?


Whether she is right or not is besides the point. 

Your wife told you she is not attracted to you.

FULL STOP.

The only way you can ask the question in the above post is if you gloss past her lack of attraction without actually considering the implications of what she told you.

Ask yourself a more pertinent question:

Why am I investing so heavily into someone who clearly doesn't love me?

Before you ask ANY other questions...please...answer that question for me. 

And just to be clear, "for the kids" is not an acceptable possible answer. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@sensitiveguy, from all that you have exposed throughout your post what comes to the forefront is that due to your various physical and emotional health issues you have been trying to compensate (to your wife) by being more and more passive to her, more and more submissive to her and her wants. Probably as a defense mechanism in order to have her support with your physical ailments and to not be dumped because of it.

Obviously, this has backfire on you because the outcome has been that she lost it for you as a man and as a partner. You showed her too much of your weakness. This type of rejections by women are extremely hard to get it back once they see you as less than a man. It really sucks to say this but is normally the truth as far as female's psyche. You are swimming against the current here.

Do not let wanton desperation to fix the relationship to blurry reality. Right now you need to be stoic and unemotional. Do not, and I repeat Do not try to use appeasement in order to try to fix the relationship, nor try to make it all about her and what you can subserviently do for her.

You need to take the driver seat, be the man showing confidence and comfort on your decisions that are for your benefit first, the relationship second. It may sound counterproductive to your senses, but that's what you need to do for yourself, with, or without her.

Just don't be afraid. Nothing in this world is irreplaceable, but death.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> @sensitiveguy, from all that you have exposed throughout your post what comes to the forefront is that due to your various physical and emotional health issues you have been trying to compensate (to your wife) by being more and more passive to her, more and more submissive to her and her wants. Probably as a defense mechanism in order to have her support with your physical ailments and to not be dumped because of it.
> 
> Obviously, this has backfire on you because the outcome has been that she lost it for you as a man and as a partner. You showed her too much of your weakness. This type of rejections by women are extremely hard to get it back once they see you as less than a man. It really sucks to say this but is normally the truth as far as female's psyche. You are swimming against the current here.
> 
> ...


This resonates with me thank you. You are correct in your assessment. When I fell sick her reaction was anger like you are going to do this to me with two small kids. Never I have your back we will get through this together. So I compensated. Can I be that assertive man? Sometimes I can and sometimes no. I guess I need help from someone.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

I am now with her and her family on vacation. She is so lovely when around her family. What does that mean?


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Whether she is right or not is besides the point.
> 
> Your wife told you she is not attracted to you.
> 
> ...


Your right. She does not love me, who I am as a person. This right there leaves me lost. According to the no more mr nice no woman will ever love me if I am so passive. Why not turn my attention away from her and work on my passivity until I feel strong and confident then leave?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

sensitiveguy said:


> Your right. She does not love me, who I am as a person. This right there leaves me lost. According to the no more mr nice no woman will ever love me if I am so passive. Why not turn my attention away from her and work on my passivity until I feel strong and confident then leave?


SG:

Speaking as a recovered nice guy, I can smell nice guy ******** a mile away.

This is an acceptable course of action...but it also wasn't really an answer to my question. Furthermore, if the above was actually what you were doing, I wouldn't be holding you to task.

So I ask again...please answer the question. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> Why not turn my attention away from her and work on my passivity until I feel strong and confident then leave?


Actually, you can do that better on your own. You're too conditioned to her in order to work on your problems.

Why don't you seek professional help in assertiveness? Expose your situation to the counselor and follow his instructions. 

The way you just asked this question reeks of fear, fear of taking a step that you are reluctant to do.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> I am now with her and her family on vacation. She is so lovely when around her family. What does that mean?


It means that she's putting about face by pretending in front of her family how nice she is to you. Period, nothing more, nothing else. The moment you two are alone, and no one watching she'll revert to the aloof woman to you.

Please, stop trying to read to much of what she does when in front of people. Pay attention to what she does when alone with you.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> It means that she's putting about face by pretending in front of her family how nice she is to you. Period, nothing more, nothing else. The moment you two are alone, and no one watching she'll revert to the aloof woman to you.
> 
> Please, stop trying to read to much of what she does when in front of people. Pay attention to what she does when alone with you.


I mean she is lovely with her family. Like she used to be with me.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> I mean she is lovely with her family. Like she used to be with me.


Regardless, is an about face.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> Actually, you can do that better on your own. You're too conditioned to her in order to work on your problems.
> 
> Why don't you seek professional help in assertiveness? Expose your situation to the counselor and follow his instructions.
> 
> The way you just asked this question reeks of fear, fear of taking a step that you are reluctant to do.


I am. We start Thursday next week.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Because apparently she likes them.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

sensitiveguy said:


> I am. We start Thursday next week.





Openminded said:


> Because apparently she likes them.


Her behavior then toward me is my fault if she is lovely otherwise?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

sensitiveguy said:


> Her behavior then toward me is my fault if she is lovely otherwise?


For whatever reason, she doesn’t currently like you. Maybe that will change at some point.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

sensitiveguy said:


> Her behavior then toward me is my fault if she is lovely otherwise?


It’s your fault if you tolerate it. And tolerating it encourages more of it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

sensitiveguy said:


> I am now with her and her family on vacation. She is so lovely when around her family. What does that mean?


It means she is a big fat phony and knows how she is with you when no one is looking is wrong. She puts on a good show so others can't see the real her because she knows it is ugly.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DudeInProgress said:


> It’s your fault if you tolerate it. And tolerating it encourages more of it.


@sensitiveguy 
You must accept this as fact and deal with the situation from this perspective or it will never change.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

sensitiveguy said:


> This resonates with me thank you. You are correct in your assessment. When I fell sick her reaction was anger like you are going to do this to me with two small kids. Never I have your back we will get through this together. So I compensated. Can I be that assertive man? Sometimes I can and sometimes no. I guess I need help from someone.


Ok, let's chop this up a bit. You want to double-down with a woman who, when you developed a serious illness made that about the impact to her?

What makes you think she won't bail out next time things get tough? Hint: she probably will.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sensitiveguy said:


> This resonates with me thank you. You are correct in your assessment. When I fell sick her reaction was anger like you are going to do this to me with two small kids. Never I have your back we will get through this together. So I compensated. Can I be that assertive man? Sometimes I can and sometimes no. I guess I need help from someone.


Can you live on your own and be co-parents, that's where you should be going.

Only you are slowing you down now. Action is required.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Can you live on your own and be co-parents, that's where you should be going.
> 
> Only you are slowing you down now. Action is required.


We live in an expensive area. We barely get by right now. However, I just got a second job. I want to see if I am so two jobs. If I can then I can make it happen.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

DTO said:


> Ok, let's chop this up a bit. You want to double-down with a woman who, when you developed a serious illness made that about the impact to her?
> 
> What makes you think she won't bail out next time things get tough? Hint: she probably will.


On other forums dealing with chronic illness, this response is super common. I did not have cancer, I had parasites from living and traveling abroad hormone issues. Diagnosed with Lyme, only one testicle. All of this collided together. Hard for people to be understanding of something that is not identifiable. My family had the same reaction.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

sensitiveguy said:


> Her behavior then toward me is my fault if she is lovely otherwise?


Of course, her behavior is HER OWN FAULT. Your wife is all about self. She even framed your illness as something you chose in order to self-justify her reprehensible and sinful actions toward you; 

The bible does not tolerate sexual withdrawal of one partner from the other in marriage, except for brief periods of "prayer and fasting". It is not, contrary to popular belief, an "option". It is a COMMAND. Your wife's actions and attitudes are just plain WRONG. That's all. End of story.

The bible does not wind any tales of "nice guy", women are attracted to, women are not attracted to, strong leaders, weak men, etc. It simply commands husbands and wives to have sex. Make up your mind, and do it. I'm sure there are countless men and women who do not like their job. However, they seem to manage to go to it and to perform at least in mediocrity every day. Therefore, to say "I'm not attracted" ? This is ignored daily when it comes to their JOB. Well, being a wife and being a husband is JOB #1. That's all. All this other malarkey is pure horse$hit.

The bible does not depict any scenarios in which it is "ok". In fact, The Lord Jesus Christ Himself condemned fantasizing about being with any other partner as equal to adultery. The bible also considers sexual abandonment as a lawful ground for divorce. No one is commanded to divorce, however, we are free to choose divorce, or not.



sensitiveguy said:


> We live in an expensive area. We barely get by right now.


Do yourself a big favor. Go to a lawyer. Get the lawyer's advice. You don't have to initiate any action, only get the "scoop" on where you'll stand financially if you divorce.


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

She is completely 100 percent unselfish when it comes to being a mom. However, when it comes to personal relationships she is selfish which is modeled after her dad which she is like. The dad bought a house for her mom and moved her there two hours from their shared house to be near their son who is an alcoholic. Dad has a girlfriend now while the mom cares for her grandchildren and has no romantic relationship. They never divorced or spoke about it. She is aware that she does not want to be like that and is now seeing a therapist. FYI all of this came out after covid. Before covid I feel things were not that bad. There were underlying issues that were not being addressed then though.


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## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> 1. She’s not in love with you. All of these multitude of resentments always pop up and become exacerbated when a wife is not in love with her husband. When she is, these things rarely present them selves unless the resentments stem from consistently bad/useless behavior.
> 2. Of course she pushes any button that you present to her. Stop being emotionally reactive and stop presenting her with buttons to push.
> Women viscerally turned off by overly sensitive, passive, weak men.
> And when they say that they want a sensitive man who can be vulnerable with her, that’s true - partially and in context. When she means though, is that she wants a strong, masculine man who confidently leads the way - that shows the occasional fleeting glimpse of weakness/vulnerability and a bit of sensitivity now and then.
> The fact that you would even choose the name sensitiveguy is an indicator of at least part of the problem here.


Women want men to be themselves. It doesn't have to be fleeting sensitivity and vulnerability but yes... it does have to be in the context of strength and leadership. If you are only ever one aspect of yourself, in either direction, women will want to see more of your full self and will push for that. 

In sensitive guy's case she likely pushes his buttons to see if the strong, masculine man, she could respect is in there. She is trying to get him to come out, get angry, set a boundary. Every time he doesn't she loses respect.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

sensitiveguy said:


> On other forums dealing with chronic illness, this response is super common. I did not have cancer, I had parasites from living and traveling abroad hormone issues. Diagnosed with Lyme, only one testicle. All of this collided together. Hard for people to be understanding of something that is not identifiable. My family had the same reaction.


Common does not mean appropriate. When my son developed leukemia, my ex complained regularly. She resented staying home to care for him and the care he got from me. She didn't like his oncologist. Keeping up with his medical info was too much - while I was running circles around her.

No gratitude. After he passed it was my job to press on while she "recovered". And to top it off, after she though I was used up (I was laid off and didn't find something right away) she quickly moved to leave me.

This is what you are in for. Don't make the mistake of leaning in and doubling down.

Especially don't do anything (like get a second job) that will restrict your ability to be with your kids in case of divorce.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

sensitiveguy said:


> She is completely 100 percent unselfish when it comes to being a mom


If she is anything like my wife..... she is 100 percent doing what floats her boat and what trips her trigger when she is being a mom. My W has adopted 9 cats to replace her DD and her DGD, and she has now become MY mom because I'm having trouble with heart failure. She calls me here in the hospital 2 or 3 times a day wanting to know what doctors have said and what they have done. Anyone who needs a mom (even those of us who don't) better look out when she gets close......



DTO said:


> Especially don't do anything (like get a second job) that will restrict your ability to be with your kids in case of divorce.


Yep. See that lawyer before making any changes.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Fly With Me said:


> She is trying to get him to come out, get angry, set a boundary. Every time he doesn't she loses respect.


This is manipulative, controlling, and a "set up" to make him "fail". Shame upon her. Shame for the unloving, unedifying person she is. Shame for the sin which motivates these actions.
She needs to repent of this way, control herself instead of others, operate in modalities which bring encouragement and positive reinforcement to her husband instead of chicanery.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

there are some super posts here I am finding the debate and reading each post interesting 

I just had a question for the other posters here , as this topic is about the/a wife

IF a woman in her 20/30s has what we have come to think as a normal sex life then after 40 drops interest and does not talk to her DR about it , is this because something has switched off her sex drive more from the relationship side than a medical/ hormone side.

Would this type woman re-find her sex-drive if a new guy showed interest in her 
I would expect she would be back in the game like a spring lamb,
I have not much experience with women 
but the woman I know is up for sex more in her 50 than she was before her 50


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

frenchpaddy said:


> there are some super posts here I am finding the debate and reading each post interesting
> 
> I just had a question for the other posters here , as this topic is about the/a wife
> 
> ...


Right but you're missing two possibilities. One, sometimes a new partner feels better only because he's new. Two, she might not like sex but feels she has to, to attract someone new.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DTO said:


> Right but you're missing two possibilities. One, sometimes a new partner feels better only because he's new. Two, she might not like sex but feels she has to, to attract someone new.


one, I can't say 
two, Which makes me think it is what she did before to get the first guy old habits die hard


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> Would this type woman re-find her sex-drive if a new guy showed interest in her
> I would expect she would be back in the game like a spring lamb,
> I have not much experience with women
> but the woman I know is up for sex more in her 50 than she was before her 50


Yes to all.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Whether she is right or not is besides the point.
> Your wife told you she is not attracted to you.
> FULL STOP.


Yes. This is the painful truth.




TJW said:


> If she is anything like my wife.....


She isn't, your wife.

The OP's wife may be a lovely flawed human being (like the all of us) who also is no longer invested in her relationship with her husband. It happens. To both men and women, since like, forever.


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## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

TJW said:


> This is manipulative, controlling, and a "set up" to make him "fail". Shame upon her. Shame for the unloving, unedifying person she is. Shame for the sin which motivates these actions.
> She needs to repent of this way, control herself instead of others, operate in modalities which bring encouragement and positive reinforcement to her husband instead of chicanery.


I agree she needs to do everything you've described. However, shame doesn't tend to motivate real change. 

I'm not saying it's good she does this. It's most likely completely subconscious.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sensitiveguy said:


> She says she needs to understand herself before making any decisions.


Smells like BS. You have a choice. Is there a ball and chain shackled to your ankle?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

sensitiveguy said:


> I am now with her and her family on vacation. She is so lovely when around her family. What does that mean?


She’s pretending. Nothing more than that. Your hopium addiction won’t get you a thing.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

harperlee said:


> Yes. This is the painful truth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s why divorce is a great option.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> That’s why divorce is a great option.


I don’t think it’s ever a great option, but sometimes it’s the best option.


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