# Did I go about this all wrong?



## RaisedGarden

Ok, Here is the story which has been repeated many times before here, but I want everyone's take on this. 

My wife of less than two years, but together for 14 years has decided to take on another paramore. She has done this before with me walking in on her and a coworker both in their underwear in our 7th year of the relationship. We had an extended break, but I forgave, and we were married years later. Fast forward to married life and my wife was growing distant as she had during the first infidelity.I attempted to source the issue, but she would be very vague about her feelings and had cut off sexual relations for more than 6 months with lame excuses. I began to feel that something more was going on again. This time she was careless and was talking to someone on the phone with a mans voice I never heard before. I asked who it was and she told me it was her old girlfriend I knew well. I snooped and found out in the phone records a number that this person did not have. The number was called numerous times a day for as little as 2 minutes but up to 2 hours. She had numerous text messages back and forth(>50 a day) She also had at least 5 picture messages a day as well. When confronted she admitted to having a new friend at work an she had been lying because she was afraid of what my reaction would be.

So after our little pow-wow the calls decreased, but the texting increased to over 100 a day. Every time I pressed the issue, she lied. I began noticing she was disappearing from work at odd hours, nowhere to be found. She would always have bizarre excuses for cover. I had enough, so I installed a text tracking software on her phone. I was in for a shock, a constant "I see you when I close my eyes" lots of :'* Then she was having meetups with him at "their place" at work. I had the proof and I had a sit down, where she cried and rocked on the couch, she never admitted to anything, but nothing, I mean nothing stopped the lying or the communication. So for better or worse I listened to online advise and approached her Parents, friends, and the gentleman himself to let them know what my wife was doing and I was wise to it. Of course my extremely religious in laws got her on the phone immediately and she talked her way out of it. She did the same with the friends, and the other man never got back to me. All I wanted to do is stop the relationship and get her back to table to talk out her concerns and issues with the marriage.

Because of this, my life has gone from bad to worse. All her side think I'm a nuts stalker. My wife barely talks to me and berates me when alone. I have her begrudgingly agreed to seeing a counselor, but she keeps moving the goal post on the first meeting and the conditions surrounding it. This leads me to my questions. Should I have released the texts to the people I told via email/mail? Should I do so now that everyone thinks I'm nuts? I did not involve her HR and director as told in the advise to prevent his and her firing, was I wrong not do so? Is it even worth the pain of reconnecting with estranged family and friends considering how she lied to cause this? Should I walk away knowing that she has the propensity to cheat on the drop of a hat? Should I just call it quits and lawyer up?


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## hookares

RaisedGarden: You have nothing to "save" but yourself. She cried when confronted because she was caught and doesn't wish to lose the financial security you provide.


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## RaisedGarden

hookares said:


> RaisedGarden: You have nothing to "save" but yourself. She cried when confronted because she was caught and doesn't wish to lose the financial security you provide.


Funny part is she makes 5 times the amount I do. If anything I'll be taking the hit if we divorce, but it's just money. What I was asking is did I go too gentle. Should I have been more aggressive and really have let the cat out of the bag by sharing her deceitful and sordid texts with her loved ones? Also, if I do make it to therapy with her, should I bring the texts with me?


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## NYC_gray

I honestly don't know what other people have to do with this issue. You should have confronted her and only her. She should have ceased the relationship with the other man. You both should decide to either work on it and move forward or end it. Involving family and friends just increases the pain and as you said - makes you look a little nuts. I say you exclude everyone from here on out and work on the issues yourselves. If she is still denying (lying), it's a huge sign that she is not willing to work on it and you should probably move on. Ruining her life in the process by telling others is not going to help you heal.


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## RaisedGarden

NYC_gray said:


> I honestly don't know what other people have to do with this issue. You should have confronted her and only her. She should have ceased the relationship with the other man. You both should decide to either work on it and move forward or end it. Involving family and friends just increases the pain and as you said - makes you look a little nuts. I say you exclude everyone from here on out and work on the issues yourselves. If she is still denying (lying), it's a huge sign that she is not willing to work on it and you should probably move on. Ruining her life in the process by telling others is not going to help you heal.


The telling other's was not done out of malice. It was to quote "open the windows and light up the relationship that thrived in the dark" I just wanted the lying to stop, and for her to approach therapy with wanting to work the problems through. Every time I approached her with more damning evidence and verifiable proof to the lies, she just got angrier and withdrew further. The telling friends and family was a hail marry to try to begin the process she had no interest in joining. Maybe you're right and I should just move on, but without trying I will never have any closure, or a clear conscious on my departure. She just needs to make her side of the decision, but until she breaks it off with the man at work, she will always be conflicted. Yes?


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## RaisedGarden

2asdf2 said:


> I am sure you have an opinion.
> 
> What is it?
> 
> .


I'm so conflicted I really don't. Reason seems a distant island at this time.


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## barbados

She has been a serial cheater to you during most of your relationship. Why did you even stay this long ?


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## wiigirl

barbados said:


> She has been a serial cheater to you during most of your relationship. Why did you even stay this long ?


This.....:|








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RaisedGarden

barbados said:


> She has been a serial cheater to you during most of your relationship. Why did you even stay this long ?


I thought it was just the 7 year itch. We went our ways, and I got involved with a mentally unstable woman that scared me back when her relationship ended due to his infidelity within a month and a half of their being together. I felt sorry for her, and it took some time, but I never questioned her devotion until this happened. Marriage also lulled me into thinking that it would not happen again, things were going good for awhile, and then the 7 year itch bit again. Now I know she is a serial cheater and will not be dumb enough to forgive so quickly if things work out, but I'm also afraid if I come down on her with friendships going forward, she will only resent and push her further away. It's a catch 22. 
ps. I'm also a hopeless romantic and perennial optimist, a dangerous combination with this.


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## lost inside

I don't think you went at it wrong. I've been there and understand what it feels like to have everyone else think you're crazy when it was the SO that was in the wrong. Hang tight and know that at some point it will all come out and her friends and family will see that you were right. YOu can't make them see that though, They have to see it for themselves and trust me they will and then she will be the crazy one.


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## tom67

Time to move on my friend this is another serial cheater. sorry


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## RaisedGarden

lost inside said:


> I don't think you went at it wrong. I've been there and understand what it feels like to have everyone else think you're crazy when it was the SO that was in the wrong. Hang tight and know that at some point it will all come out and her friends and family will see that you were right. YOu can't make them see that though, They have to see it for themselves and trust me they will and then she will be the crazy one.


That's all well and good, but she is telling me that everyone is telling her to divorce my ass. I honestly don't know what she is telling them, or if it's true at all. What I do know is that I can no longer speak to them about the situation considering how it all went down. I get the feeling that I'm being cut out of her life systematically, and when the time is right she is going to pull the board out from under me, and move onto her happy life with the new man that she still will not admit to. I would think that people would see that it's weird that she divorces her husband to only end up with the one that they were told she was cheating with, but people only see what they want to. Never underestimate the power of stupidity.


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## NYC_gray

RaisedGarden said:


> The telling other's was not done out of malice. It was to quote "open the windows and light up the relationship that thrived in the dark" I just wanted the lying to stop, and for her to approach therapy with wanting to work the problems through. Every time I approached her with more damning evidence and verifiable proof to the lies, she just got angrier and withdrew further. The telling friends and family was a hail marry to try to begin the process she had no interest in joining. Maybe you're right and I should just move on, but without trying I will never have any closure, or a clear conscious on my departure. She just needs to make her side of the decision, but until she breaks it off with the man at work, she will always be conflicted. Yes?


my honest opinion? if she's getting angry, that's not a sign of remorse. if she's not remorseful, it sounds like the end. I understand your reasons for wanting to try, but some very crucial things are missing from the equation if you want to make this work - 1. she is still maintaining a relationship with the guy, 2. she is not showing remorse and continues to lie - these are huge red flags and it's hard to work on anything in the relationship when these things are standing in the way, unfortunately.


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## RaisedGarden

NYC_gray said:


> my honest opinion? if she's getting angry, that's not a sign of remorse. if she's not remorseful, it sounds like the end. I understand your reasons for wanting to try, but some very crucial things are missing from the equation if you want to make this work - 1. she is still maintaining a relationship with the guy, 2. she is not showing remorse and continues to lie - these are huge red flags and it's hard to work on anything in the relationship when these things are standing in the way, unfortunately.


I'm such a sap I apologized for telling everyone about the relationship. All she could say is that everything she said to him was taken out of context. I don't know I could take anything she said out of context, but she just keeps finding new ways to explain away what she has done. She keeps putting the whole blame on me. How I ruined everything in her life because I told everyone. How she can't work out our issues because she has to deal with everyone else. How I was the reason she started feeling unfulfilled in the marriage. All problems point to me. I'm thinking it's a serious case of deflection, but between the constant barrage of guilt from her, some major head games, and major self introspection and over thinking I'm starting to loose my mind and see the problem as 100% my own and not hers. I'm being manipulated into believing her story.


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## lost inside

Of course they are telling her that. She is lying to them as well. I speak from eperience that right now she looks like the winner and you the loser but I'm telling you that her happy little life you think she will walk away with will not be as happy as you think. People may think you are crazy and making stuff up to be hurtful but once it's over and some time has passed she will show her true colors and everyone will realize what you were saying all along. Like I said, I have been there. It's hard to be in your position right now but what goes around, comes around and she will be the loser in the end.

That being said...I understand reconciling if it was one affair. A serial cheater is a knife in your back with multiple stabs wounds meant to take you out. If you take her back now once she is exposed and comes crying back because people are being mean to her (boo hoo) then you will look the loser.


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## Thor

Talk to a lawyer. Go to dadsdivorce dot com amd read//follow The List. Run like your a$$ is on fire, but be smart to protect yourself. Go for alimony as per your state laws.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan

RaisedGarden said:


> That's all well and good, but she is telling me that everyone is telling her to divorce my ass. I honestly don't know what she is telling them, or if it's true at all. What I do know is that I can no longer speak to them about the situation considering how it all went down. I get the feeling that I'm being cut out of her life systematically, and when the time is right she is going to pull the board out from under me, and move onto her happy life with the new man that she still will not admit to. I would think that people would see that it's weird that she divorces her husband to only end up with the one that they were told she was cheating with, but people only see what they want to. Never underestimate the power of stupidity.


Beat her to the punch.

You are in a false R, get out until if/when she is begging you back. R will only work if she wants it more than you and from what you wrote, she doesn't care enough about you right now. 

Why waste your time trying to work it out with someone that doesn't want to be with you?

Don't be nice or sympathetic to her; she screwed up so she should be grateful that you let her stay. She broke the M, she needs to fix it. If she isn't doing that then you have no M and should move to end it until she convinces you otherwise.


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## Dad&Hubby

RaisedGarden said:


> I'm such a sap I apologized for telling everyone about the relationship. All she could say is that everything she said to him was taken out of context. I don't know I could take anything she said out of context, but she just keeps finding new ways to explain away what she has done. She keeps putting the whole blame on me. How I ruined everything in her life because I told everyone. How she can't work out our issues because she has to deal with everyone else. How I was the reason she started feeling unfulfilled in the marriage. All problems point to me. I'm thinking it's a serious case of deflection, but between the constant barrage of guilt from her, some major head games, and major self introspection and over thinking I'm starting to loose my mind and see the problem as 100% my own and not hers. I'm being manipulated into believing her story.


So you have a path with a fork in it in front of you right now.

On one side..it's stay married, on the other it's divorce.

Staying married is also a forked road. There's true reconciliation and the other is having a wife who's a serial cheater who's not above lieing to people to make you look bad in order to keep the cheating going. 

Can you see which path your wife is walking? She wants the marriage, but she doesn't want a good marriage. She's not being remorseful. 

Plain and simple she first, cheated on you, the ultimate betrayal AND THEN she lied to everyone making you the jerk. Uhmm what is there in a person who would do that to you that you want to remain married to them?

Start filing for divorce and as a parting shot, once it's all said and done, send out the proof to everyone INCLUDING her work. Let her talk her way out of being a blatant liar to EVERYONE. I wouldn't care what her family thought of me. Do you think they'll look at you worse?


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## RaisedGarden

Dad&Hubby said:


> So you have a path with a fork in it in front of you right now.
> 
> On one side..it's stay married, on the other it's divorce.
> 
> Staying married is also a forked road. There's true reconciliation and the other is having a wife who's a serial cheater who's not above lieing to people to make you look bad in order to keep the cheating going.
> 
> Can you see which path your wife is walking? She wants the marriage, but she doesn't want a good marriage. She's not being remorseful.
> 
> Plain and simple she first, cheated on you, the ultimate betrayal AND THEN she lied to everyone making you the jerk. Uhmm what is there in a person who would do that to you that you want to remain married to them?
> 
> Start filing for divorce and as a parting shot, once it's all said and done, send out the proof to everyone INCLUDING her work. Let her talk her way out of being a blatant liar to EVERYONE. I wouldn't care what her family thought of me. Do you think they'll look at you worse?


Valid point. Maybe I'm just holding onto the idelic image I have of her. As for the serial cheating thing, it is still just sinking in. I honestly thought when it first happened that is was just her growing up. Now I'm not so sure. The thing that is really bothering me is that it's turning into a Hatfield and McCoy thing between our two families. I understand that my family and friends have my back but they all want blood. I seem to be the calmest of the bunch right now. I don't know if it's because I'm delusional or just in shock. In any case I'm going to try my best to make the Therapy thing work, but as you said if she doesn't get the need to change her stripes and start to see some fault in the whole thing, it will never work. It's just if my releasing the information to everyone is a face saver, or will I just be looking like I'm also looking for blood?


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## WorkingOnMe

dump her. You can't reconcile with someone who is not remorseful.


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## RaisedGarden

WorkingOnMe said:


> dump her. You can't reconcile with someone who is not remorseful.


She has always been a cold person, but I have never known her to be so heartless and amotional towards me. I guess she has already made up her mind. I guess I just need to hear it from her own mouth. Any chances she will do so in therapy? Has anyone out thre have the cheater break down their wall and just call it quits in thereapy?


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## PHTlump

Dude, she doesn't love you. Maybe she did once, but not anymore.

Talk to a lawyer tomorrow. And keep it secret. The first your wife hears from you should be when you serve her the papers.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump

RaisedGarden said:


> She has always been a cold person, but I have never known her to be so heartless and amotional towards me. I guess she has already made up her mind. I guess I just need to hear it from her own mouth. Any chances she will do so in therapy? Has anyone out thre have the cheater break down their wall and just call it quits in thereapy?


Of course not. You're married to Bill Clinton. Deny, deny, deny. I did not have sexual relations with that man.

She's not the one with the problem. You are. She gets to screw her other man at work and come home to you. She doesn't even have to cheat on the other man with you anymore, since she's cut you off sexually.

Don't look to her for anything. It would be a miracle if she ever acknowledged her affairs, apologized for them, and wished you luck in the future. You should expect her to continue to tell everybody that you're making this up and you are the bad guy. Don't continue to take it.

Good luck.


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## giashasa2012

The solution is simple :
1) Find a lawyer (don't tell her anything)
2) Fill for divorce (don't tell her anything)
3) Follow the 180list
4) Serve her when the paperwork is ready 
5) Follow the 180 
6) Follow the 180
..........................
..........................
99) Follow the 180
..........................
x) Divorce and NC


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## Will_Kane

giashasa2012 said:


> The solution is simple :
> 1) Find a lawyer (don't tell her anything)
> 2) Fill for divorce (don't tell her anything)
> 3) Follow the 180list
> 4) Serve her when the paperwork is ready
> 5) Follow the 180
> 6) Follow the 180
> ..........................
> ..........................
> 99) Follow the 180
> ..........................
> x) Divorce and NC


Obviously you are extremely unhappy with your marriage. Tell your wife what you require of her in order for you to remain married to her: no contact with other man, apology to you, etc., - whatever you need. Tell your wife you cannot control her, you can only control yourself and what you are willing to accept and not accept in your marriage - and you are not willing to accept things as they are. If she is not willing to change them to your satisfaction IMMEDIATELY, then file for divorce and move on with your life, saving yourself many more months and maybe even years of more of the same pain you've been in.


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## sandc

RaisedGarden said:


> She has always been a cold person, but I have never known her to be so heartless and amotional towards me. I guess she has already made up her mind. I guess I just need to hear it from her own mouth. Any chances she will do so in therapy? Has anyone out thre have the cheater break down their wall and just call it quits in thereapy?


No. She will continue to string you along as long as you let her. Just let go. Go find a warm person. If you want to be married, that's great, it just doesn't have to be her, you know?


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## giashasa2012

She is a serial cheater , there is a rule of thumb that states that with one indiscretion a marriage can be saved with a second indiscretion the outlook is grim.

Protect your self

Fill for divorce and if that does not shock her into reality , then you will know that she is far gone and nothing that you do will bring her back .


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## Acabado

The 180 degree rules
Just Let Them Go


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## OldWolf57

RG, How old are you ??? 
Release ALL the evidence to her family and friends, then tell them all to kiss your lilly white.

YOU, are acting likr this is the only woman you have EVER been with.
Dude, it don't rise or set on her, believe me. So take off the rose colored glasses and go to war if you really want to save this train wreck.

Go to HR,and file a complaint. Get a lawyer and file for D.
She makes more than you so she see you as lower then her and him.

Release all the txts and knock her support system out from unde her.
Show them the phone records and ask them if that don't seem excessive for two supposed friends to talk and txt that much.

Personally, I would spit in her face an file. Asking for the house, and alimony.

But you seem like the type that will wait an question your own eyes and ears.

Dude, destroy her and move on.
AND yeah, it will make you feel better.
Never could understand ppl saying it don't.

I never worried about being the bigger person, unless it was the biggest crisis they ever faced.

Redeem yourself man


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## Juicer

So you're being manipulated by a cheater?
Well, cheaters have a lot of experience in how to manipulate people. 

So the question is now:
What do you want?


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## RaisedGarden

OldWolf57 said:


> RG, How old are you ???
> Release ALL the evidence to her family and friends, then tell them all to kiss your lilly white.
> 
> YOU, are acting likr this is the only woman you have EVER been with.
> Dude, it don't rise or set on her, believe me. So take off the rose colored glasses and go to war if you really want to save this train wreck.
> 
> Go to HR,and file a complaint. Get a lawyer and file for D.
> She makes more than you so she see you as lower then her and him.
> 
> Release all the txts and knock her support system out from unde her.
> Show them the phone records and ask them if that don't seem excessive for two supposed friends to talk and txt that much.
> 
> Personally, I would spit in her face an file. Asking for the house, and alimony.
> 
> But you seem like the type that will wait an question your own eyes and ears.
> 
> Dude, destroy her and move on.
> AND yeah, it will make you feel better.
> Never could understand ppl saying it don't.
> 
> I never worried about being the bigger person, unless it was the biggest crisis they ever faced.
> 
> Redeem yourself man


To answer your question I'm in my mid 30's. Yes I know she isn't the only one out there, nor is she the first serious relationship I have had that ended with the other person cheating, but I will find another. To answer your second question she is his direct supervisor, so when HR gets the info both are immediately termianted. This is why she keeps trying to get all digital and physical copies. I keep seeing her snooping around the computers and my papers, but it's all stowed away on the cloud far from her hands. I didn't think it was worth the karma having someone fired to fulfill my anger, but maybe I will be doing her favor by allowing them to have their relationship out in the open without fear of discovery and termiantion. Third. Alimony ain't happening. Living in a no fault state and already told by a lawyer minimum marriage to receive allimony is 10 years. He also told me to tough it out for the next 8 years and then divorce, but I could never live with myself for that long. I was hoping that she would see the error in her ways, but from what I have gleemed from the site is that once a cheater always a cheater, and regardless if the truth landed on her face and did a dance, she's too self absorbed into her own happiness to care about mine. Maybe what I really needed was a slap on the face to get me back to reality. It's gonna suck, but hey in a year I should have this behind me.


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## 67flh

well if alimonys outta the question,then just blow this up to HR and let the pieces fall where they may.RGfor your own self respect you gotta just run from this.


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## alphaomega

Old wolf! Your awesome!

No, it's not you. Your falling under the spell of the gas lighting. That's what it's supposed to do and it's a very effective mental technique of the cheater. 

Btw. Sucks being the "crazy" one to all your family and friends. 

My x told all our family and friends I was the one that cheated when we split. Lol. Oh we'll. 

I agree with old wolf. Fu(k her mind games, then send out the evidence en mass. Who gives a shat what they think. In a year, no one will even give a rats ass about what happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

RG, this entiteled serial cheating princess is image empowered.
So do this, pull some really juicy txts from the cloud and ask her what does she think everyones going to say when you show them and HR.

Your reason ??? No 8 yrs of suffering to get in her pocket for the mental an emotional hurt she has done to you.

Since she is so image conscience use it against her to get what you want.
If HR would fire her over this, then you have the tools if they incriminate enough, to bring her career and rep down to the dirt.

If you want alimony for your trouble make her give it

Sit her ass down, tell her you are filing and you want the house, and alimony. That if she fight you on this, you will file a case against her employer using the txts and phone records to make your case. Tell her she has until breakfast to decide. If not, you will be going to her job first thing in the morning to file a complaint with HR.
But know this, this is where you have to connect to your anger to keep from falling weak. For I see the sadness in your last post dispute the way you've been treated.

Good Luck RG.


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## Remains

RaisedGarden said:


> It's just if my releasing the information to everyone is a face saver, or will I just be looking like I'm also looking for blood?


I don't think so. Think about it...your couple friend are having problems, he says she cheated, she says no way he is just paranoid and misconstruing and making mountains from nothing. He is this, he is that. You believe the woman's story.

They split up and lo and behold you are sent the text conversation etc print outs. You are going to feel really bad for the man on 2 counts. 1, his wife cheated, and then painted him out to be a terrible man, she lied to protect her guilty ass. 2, you believed her and not him. On top of that, total anger at the woman for lying to you, and for putting you in the position of believing bulls*it. It works in your favour.

However, this should obviously only be given to people, family, friends, who you are very close to. Forget the rest. Less close friends will wonder why you are dragging them into something that is nothing to do with them and that they have no interest. And they will probably hear the news on the grapevine anyway. 

Oh, and give the stuff to her work too.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Why the hell the world is filled with nice gamma guys?
I was one like you but now i changed to a cobination of alpha and beta as and when required.
File for D, dont waste your time for hearing it from her mouth, she already ended your marriage.
Use the evidence you have for your betterment.
Or live the life you are living thinking it as second year itch in the marriage but she will have 3,4,5,6,7,8,..............yr itching. Just keep your mouth shut and should think it as normal to have itch(for your wife).


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## RaisedGarden

OldWolf57 said:


> RG, this entiteled serial cheating princess is image empowered.
> So do this, pull some really juicy txts from the cloud and ask her what does she think everyones going to say when you show them and HR.
> 
> Your reason ??? No 8 yrs of suffering to get in her pocket for the mental an emotional hurt she has done to you.
> 
> Since she is so image conscience use it against her to get what you want.
> If HR would fire her over this, then you have the tools if they incriminate enough, to bring her career and rep down to the dirt.
> 
> If you want alimony for your trouble make her give it
> 
> Sit her ass down, tell her you are filing and you want the house, and alimony. That if she fight you on this, you will file a case against her employer using the txts and phone records to make your case. Tell her she has until breakfast to decide. If not, you will be going to her job first thing in the morning to file a complaint with HR.
> But know this, this is where you have to connect to your anger to keep from falling weak. For I see the sadness in your last post dispute the way you've been treated.
> 
> Good Luck RG.


Yeah, thanks for the advice. I would love to go in with a machete to get what I want, but having been with her for 14 years and knowing her deal, the job calls for a scalpel. For better or worse, I'm going to use the Joint Therapy session to lay it all out there. I'm coming with copies of texts and phone calls and laying it out in front of her and the therapist. This will allow me to avoid a flying hand or verbal barrage with the F word punctuated with squeals and whimpering. This is what I typically get if I even bring up anything in the body of the texts. Followed by crying and then a "your taking everything out of context" I now know there is no way to appeal to her higher cognitive functioning. So in front of the therapist I'm going to tell her my demands. No wavering, and no way for her to wiggle out like she is used to. I am also going to ask her to pack a bag and stay with here parents or him if that is what she wants. I also am shuffling my 401k to come up with the scratch for the lawyer's retainer. She played with fire and she used up her last extinguisher in my mind. Unfortunately she is too self absorbed to learn from this, and it may take her second or third divorce before she finally gets it.


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## RaisedGarden

Hey Everyone,

Quick question. I'm fast approaching my first joint therapy session at the end of the week. I have print outs of all the incriminating texts and emails. Should I bring these to the session for back up to her mistruth, and also to put a physical face on her lying to her? Friends think it's tacky and should not do so. What does everyone else think?


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## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> Quick question. I'm fast approaching my first joint therapy session at the end of the week. I have print outs of all the incriminating texts and emails. Should I bring these to the session for back up to her mistruth, and also to put a physical face on her lying to her? Friends think it's tacky and should not do so. What does everyone else think?


Yes bring it with you.


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## walkonmars

tom67 said:


> Yes bring it with you.


by all means. Show one to the MC and tell him/her that it's that type of communication and it's implications that you're concerned about but that she makes light of it.


----------



## Thor

One of the primary rules is to not reveal your sources. She will go deeper underground in the future. Since the texts and emails are your proof there is no choice but to reveal them. But I would caution you to not disclose fully how much you have or exactly how you got them even if directly asked. She will also try to only admit to what you know, so you don't want to lay out the entire bunch of messages for her to see the limits of what you know.


----------



## Will_Kane

Yes, bring them with you. Make your point without them. Don't let on that you have them. Disagree with her lies every step of the way. After she lies to the therapist about everything, pull out one transcript to prove she is a liar. Let the therapist see that nothing your wife says can be believed.

If you think the transcripts can be used as a bargaining chip in other negotiations with your divorce, by all means use them.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Thor said:


> One of the primary rules is to not reveal your sources. She will go deeper underground in the future. Since the texts and emails are your proof there is no choice but to reveal them. But I would caution you to not disclose fully how much you have or exactly how you got them even if directly asked. She will also try to only admit to what you know, so you don't want to lay out the entire bunch of messages for her to see the limits of what you know.


Agree, do not reveal your source
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DavidWYoung

You really need to SAVE yourself. Good luck.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

RaisedGarden said:


> *He also told me to tough it out for the next 8 years *and then divorce, but I could never live with myself for that long.


I sure as hell hope you fire this lawyer. No amount of money is worth putting up with this kind of crap for eight years. Eight days would be too much for me.

You already made a lot of mistakes - like thinking that she would change if you marry her.

RUN YOUR ASS AWAY FROM THIS WOMAN LIKE YOU'RE FORREST GUMP CHASING AFTER JENNY.


----------



## the guy

Since the issue at hand here is the text then by all means bring them. It will give the counselor some real fact to the issue at hand and prevent any side tracking from you wife.

These issue can be addressed finally.......sorry to say though, your wife sound like the kind of person that no matter what she is always right. 

Its safe to say your wife will not like the counselor and most likely not return.

But since you dropped the ball during exposure in the 1st place , it would be good to have her face this...no matter how she responds.

So yes take the texts (copies only), and don't tell your wife, she won't go


----------



## Shaggy

Your wife feels she is entitled to cheat, since she's been doing it before with no long term consequences.

You've got to show her you aren't a passive guy who will cower.

Forget the MC, she's already lying to you and everyone , she will just lie to the MC.

Do take your evidence and bring it directly to HR. shake up her safe cosy playground where she thinks she's untouchable.

The anger and attitude you are seeing is her arrogantly telling you she's gonna do at work what wants to do , and tat you'll too afraid to do anything there.


----------



## RaisedGarden

the guy said:


> Since the issue at hand here is the text then by all means bring them. It will give the counselor some real fact to the issue at hand and prevent any side tracking from you wife.
> 
> These issue can be addressed finally.......sorry to say though, your wife sound like the kind of person that no matter what she is always right.
> 
> Its safe to say your wife will not like the counselor and most likely not return.
> 
> But since you dropped the ball during exposure in the 1st place , it would be good to have her face this...no matter how she responds.
> 
> So yes take the texts (copies only), and don't tell your wife, she won't go


This is what I'm hoping for. I think she is going to pull out of therapy, and will run from the situation. I will then have no qualms in ending the relationship having tried to make it work. At that point I will also have no issue in cutting off his number from our joint cell account. I will also have no issue in sending copies of the texts and letter to her director and HR department. I figure one, if not both, will be fired due to their zero tolerance policy on staff having relationships. Especially since she is his direct supervisor. I will also have no issue in moving forward with having the lawyer file the official papers for our legal separation. She's not going to change her stripes, and I'm a fool for thinking that she ever would. I for one feel sorry for the therapist who is in effect just going to be a referee at the end of marriage.


----------



## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> This is what I'm hoping for. I think she is going to pull out of therapy, and will run from the situation. I will then have no qualms in ending the relationship having tried to make it work. At that point I will also have no issue in cutting off his number from our joint cell account. I will also have no issue in sending copies of the texts and letter to her director and HR department. I figure one, if not both, will be fired due to their zero tolerance policy on staff having relationships. Especially since she is his direct supervisor. I will also have no issue in moving forward with having the lawyer file the official papers for our legal separation. She's not going to change her stripes, and I'm a fool for thinking that she ever would. I for one feel sorry for the therapist who is in effect just going to be a referee at the end of marriage.


There have to be consequences for people's actions it is NOT your fault you are finally tired of being disrespected good!


----------



## the guy

Just remember no matter how pissed off your chick gets you..never show her your hand.


----------



## RaisedGarden

the guy said:


> Just remember no matter how pissed off your chick gets you..never show her your hand
> 
> I have had her grab me and spit in my face. I have been hit plenty of times and have never retaliated. I will never hit a woman, no matter how much she is in my face or hitting me.


----------



## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> the guy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember no matter how pissed off your chick gets you..never show her your hand
> 
> I have had her grab me and spit in my face. I have been hit plenty of times and have never retaliated. I will never hit a woman, no matter how much she is in my face or hitting me.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep a var on you when having a conversation with her.
Click to expand...


----------



## sandc

tom67 said:


> RaisedGarden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep a var on you when having a conversation with her.
> 
> 
> 
> QFT (quoted for truth)
> 
> Next time she does that call the cops. You don't do this to wimp out, you do this so that evidence can be logged.
Click to expand...


----------



## Acabado

RaisedGarden said:


> I have had her grab me and spit in my face. I have been hit plenty of times and have never retaliated. I will never hit a woman, no matter how much she is in my face or hitting me.


Also neeed to brought to light at MC.


----------



## Kasler

RaisedGarden said:


> the guy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember no matter how pissed off your chick gets you..never show her your hand
> 
> I have had her grab me and spit in my face. I have been hit plenty of times and have never retaliated. I will never hit a woman, no matter how much she is in my face or hitting me.
> 
> 
> 
> I've hit women before, but only after I warned them not to hit me again and they did so anyways.
> 
> Bad move, especially if police get involved, but I still stand by my policy of no one lays fists upon me without getting in same in return.
> 
> Call it what ya will.
Click to expand...


----------



## PHTlump

RaisedGarden said:


> I will also have no issue in sending copies of the texts and letter to her director and HR department. I figure one, if not both, will be fired due to their zero tolerance policy on staff having relationships.


Talk to your lawyer before you do anything to affect her employment. You could get her fired, only to owe her more alimony as a result.

Good luck.


----------



## RaisedGarden

PHTlump said:


> Talk to your lawyer before you do anything to affect her employment. You could get her fired, only to owe her more alimony as a result.
> 
> Good luck.


She currently makes 5 times the salary I do. She makes more in a week than I do in a month. There is no way she is going to get alimony, also in NJ you have to be married for 10 years to get alimony considered by the court. No harm no foul.


----------



## the guy

Hang on folks, ya I'm an ex wife beater, but what I meant was never show your cards....stay dark...don't try to retaliate by telling her you are divorcing or moving on or doing this or that....I ment go dark and don't tell your WW what your next step is.

You know like a hand of cards and never reveal your hand.....poker ...get it?

Geez. I mention I pushed my wife around back in the day and all you folks still think I'm that guy...Please!!!


----------



## OldWolf57

You are not really making any sense dude !! If this is what you are hoping, why go tthru all this sh!t ??

Look, do this, go ask family and friends if they would let their spouse put a money making man or woman who you think they are having an affair with on your family phone plan. 
Why are yo paying for them to carry this on in your face.

Also, like a couple of guys said, Put your hands on me, I will stump a mud hole in your ass. You old enough to hit me, you grown enough for me to. Don't hit me, I won't hit you.

I personally have seen a woman cut a man guts out over a dice point. So I KNOW how deadly they can be.

AND Ladies, I do fair play, but you are not the weaker sex.
I have more respect for women then most men.

But, RG, if it takes all of this, then you are fooling yourself.
So just face it dude. YOU are NOT leaving this woman no matter what she does.


----------



## RaisedGarden

OldWolf57 said:


> You are not really making any sense dude !! If this is what you are hoping, why go tthru all this sh!t ??
> 
> Look, do this, go ask family and friends if they would let their spouse put a money making man or woman who you think they are having an affair with on your family phone plan.
> Why are yo paying for them to carry this on in your face.
> 
> Also, like a couple of guys said, Put your hands on me, I will stump a mud hole in your ass. You old enough to hit me, you grown enough for me to. Don't hit me, I won't hit you.
> 
> I personally have seen a woman cut a man guts out over a dice point. So I KNOW how deadly they can be.
> 
> AND Ladies, I do fair play, but you are not the weaker sex.
> I have more respect for women then most men.
> 
> But, RG, if it takes all of this, then you are fooling yourself.
> So just face it dude. YOU are NOT leaving this woman no matter what she does.


No I have already formulated the exit plan. I have most of the pieces in place. What I do need is to be right now. Maybe it's a bit childish, but I cannot leave with her having the upper hand in the situation. I hate to loose, but a loss like this I will not stand by. That is why I have pushed my chess pieces the way I have to force her into a check mate move. It may be only a temporary and small victory, but alas it is mine just the same.


----------



## Thor

You should check out dadsdivorce . com forums. Do carry aVAR to protect yourself from the likely false allegatipns.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RaisedGarden

Thor said:


> You should check out dadsdivorce . com forums. Do carry aVAR to protect yourself from the likely false allegatipns.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know I would never have thought she would try something like that, but I have been so very very wrong about everything I thought I knew about my wife, and to be honest I think she will be my last wife.


----------



## OldWolf57

she's using the queens gambit, while you are countering with the french D. not good man.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Hey Everyone,
Here's the update. We did out first joint MC session and it went horrible. So my wife immediately went on about how she felt for years(mind you we got married two years ago) that the relationship was failing. That she had no feeling for me anymore and that she was forced into cheating. When the counselor asked how serious each of us were in reconciliation, I told her that I was committed, my wife would not answer. When pressed she said she is confused.

The therapist said that it is impossible for a threesome to go through therapy, and she needed to drop the boyfriend. She said she won't. Beside's this she lied multiple times about things that she has already admitted to. It got a little heated and the therapists refuses to move forward with CT without having multiple single sessions first, and for the wife to drop the boyfriend. 

When pressed further about why not leaving the marriage if she insists on keeping the BF, the response was that I have a wonderful husband that I can not find anything wrong with except small things. When the therapist called her out on hypocrisy of that statement, she stated that the BF's provide her something that I do not have that she is craving. After that, what I am craving is a divorce. I have never seen someone so unremorseful outside of OJ in my life. She has said in private she "Refuses" to end her relationship with the OM, and she will not a divorce. I am so udderly confused here. What is going on here? She is caught, she admits to the relationship and she still will not pull the trigger on divorce. Is this just suicide by police? Does she need for me to be the bad guy in this? I wish she would just end the hurt and end the marriage. Does she need to keep me on the line because she really doesn't want to be with the OM, or is it that she is deriving some pleasure in watching me wither away physically, mentally, and emotionally? Has anyone had a cheating spouse ever do this to them? What was the outcome?


----------



## TDSC60

She has told you that you cannot be everything she needs in her life, that she requires another man do be complete, so that should be that.

Divorce does not require her to agree to do it.

Get a lawyer, file the papers and have her served.


----------



## MattMatt

My God! I just had a thought! If she had spent even 50% of the time and energy she used up lying to you, her parents, the OM, her friends, you and she would have had a fantastic marriage!

But she chose not to. Her mistake mate, not yours!

She went about things in the wrong way, not you.


----------



## MattMatt

Just a point, here, please think carefully before you answer this... as it is important.



> When the therapist called her out on hypocrisy of that statement, she stated that the boy friends provide her something that I do not have that she is craving.


*What were her exact words, there? Did she say boy friend or boy friends, in plural? If the latter, this latest boy friend is just one of many.*

Get yourself tested for stds/hiv as soon as you can. And let her knew you are doing this. And why.


----------



## walkonmars

The only good thing I see from your session, if there is such a thing as a good thing, considering what occurred is that the MC was outstanding. 

Things could have been worse. Much worse if the MC had started drilling you for your 'role' in her issues. 

Count your blessing she was forced by the MC to face some truths. 

You know what you need to do now. In the long run you'll do well. She? She'll be trying to find another 'fantastic' husband that can put up with her issues. And boy oh boy does she have them.


----------



## timeforchange

RaisedGarden said:


> Hey Everyone,
> Here's the update. We did out first joint MC session and it went horrible. So my wife immediately went on about how she felt for years(mind you we got married two years ago) that the relationship was failing. That she had no feeling for me anymore and that she was forced into cheating. When the counselor asked how serious each of us were in reconciliation, I told her that I was committed, my wife would not answer. When pressed she said she is confused.
> 
> The therapist said that it is impossible for a threesome to go through therapy, and she needed to drop the boyfriend. She said she won't. Beside's this she lied multiple times about things that she has already admitted to. It got a little heated and the therapists refuses to move forward with CT without having multiple single sessions first, and for the wife to drop the boyfriend.
> 
> When pressed further about why not leaving the marriage if she insists on keeping the BF, the response was that I have a wonderful husband that I can not find anything wrong with except small things. When the therapist called her out on hypocrisy of that statement, she stated that the BF's provide her something that I do not have that she is craving. After that, what I am craving is a divorce. I have never seen someone so unremorseful outside of OJ in my life. She has said in private she "Refuses" to end her relationship with the OM, and she will not a divorce. I am so udderly confused here. What is going on here? She is caught, she admits to the relationship and she still will not pull the trigger on divorce. Is this just suicide by police? Does she need for me to be the bad guy in this? I wish she would just end the hurt and end the marriage. Does she need to keep me on the line because she really doesn't want to be with the OM, or is it that she is deriving some pleasure in watching me wither away physically, mentally, and emotionally? Has anyone had a cheating spouse ever do this to them? What was the outcome?


Sorry to hear how much you've had to go through with this. If someone claims to be forced to cheat is that not actually rape?! If your wife is blatantly refusing to end the other relationship after all that's happened, why do you still try to help the situation? Maybe this is a perfect chance for you to find someone that can be just with you for you, instead of putting yourself through this pain. Know that you will never ever be the "bad guy" in this. 

My husband refused to talk to me or a counselor about my emotional affair. When I wrote and came clean about everything I did, he said that was me landing the problem on his lap. If I didn't tell him what happened I would have been wrong to keep it to myself. He prefers to keep it inside and has told me everything changed when I did it. He'll probably always hold it against me. Fair play.

And no I don't think you went about it all wrong. You did your best given the situation. At least you tried to make it work. I hope you find a way through this that makes life less painful and happier for you in the long run x


----------



## Kasler

Why she doesn't want a divorce?

You're overthinking it. Its not that she gets some pleasure watching you or even not being the bad guy. 

In fact, its elementary Watson. Cake Eating. She wants you on the hook for a comfortable lifestyle and finances while she uses her OMs for sex and emotion. 

Theres nothing comfortable about divorce. Splitting assets, custody of children, court, etc. Therefore, she doesn't want divorce. 

Quite simple really. 

It also has a simple solution

File Divorce. 

As long as shes with her boyfriend R isn't on the table, hell its not even under the table, its shoved in a shoebox in the basement. 

Also individual sessions won't help either, so if you think paying money to stick her in front of a shrink will magically fix your problems, don't

I repeat, file divorce.


----------



## the guy

File for divorce and ask for everything, sole residency, all the asssets, even kids if there are any, take all the pets and leave her with nothing. 
This tactic will force her hand to respond, in not by default you have everything including the home were then you can get her evicted.

See your WW does not have a choice in the matter, she either responds to the divorce or she loses by default. There is no other way out of it.......Well there is one way out of it but she seems to determined to keep her OM.

File now while the iron is hot. Or you can continue to share your wife! Get a shark and do not hold back.


----------



## the guy

BTW, I like your MC!


----------



## walkonmars

Time to reclaim your life and your self respect. 
Go back and re-read all the posts again. They all see what she is.

Heck, even Ray Charles could see it too. 

End it immediately. Don't engage in ANY conversation with her. You'll only end up with spit in your face again or a slap across the face. But if she does slap you file a police report. 

After you leave your lawyer's office go directly to the HR in her office. Be cordial, not mad, not mopey, cordial. 

Ask for a copy of their non-fraternization policy. Tell them you wan to file a complaint because an affair that started, occurred, and is continuing to this day in their offices between a supervisor and a subordinate has ruined your marriage. Take evidence with you but do not offer it unless you are asked for proof. 

ALL of this should be done without consulting or informing your wife. 

And no, these actions do not make you a vindictive spurned lover. It makes you a self-respecting, honorable man.


----------



## Madman1

Are you ok with sharing your wife with another man?
Dont be confused, you almost sound flatered by what she said.

Feel your self respect again and you will see right through her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Remains

I agree with the above. She wants nothing more than comfortable life and husband WITH a bit on the side for excitement. Simple as that.

Expose and file. 

Find someone who will treat you right. She is cold and calculating and deserves her life without you. She will never be happy. While you can move on and be happy. Do it now and put a stop to what she is doing to you.


----------



## Acabado

What a complete narcissistic your wife is. She told you there, ion front of a MC who she is. No shame. She deserves it. You are of use for her.
The nerve.

Refuse to speak with her beyond finances and logistics. Hard 180. File. Shark, dad's friendly lawyer. Go to the yugular.
Don't even bother to expose her in hope she sees the light. 
She's consumed in lust and full of entitlement and narcissistic delusions.

Please, don't forget to carry a VAR with you everywhere. This woman already was violent, she won't go away without making harm. She's dangerous. You will wound her narcissittic core. She will lash out. That's for sure.


----------



## jim123

RaisedGarden said:


> Hey Everyone,
> Here's the update. We did out first joint MC session and it went horrible. So my wife immediately went on about how she felt for years(mind you we got married two years ago) that the relationship was failing. That she had no feeling for me anymore and that she was forced into cheating. When the counselor asked how serious each of us were in reconciliation, I told her that I was committed, my wife would not answer. When pressed she said she is confused.
> 
> The therapist said that it is impossible for a threesome to go through therapy, and she needed to drop the boyfriend. She said she won't. Beside's this she lied multiple times about things that she has already admitted to. It got a little heated and the therapists refuses to move forward with CT without having multiple single sessions first, and for the wife to drop the boyfriend.
> 
> When pressed further about why not leaving the marriage if she insists on keeping the BF, the response was that I have a wonderful husband that I can not find anything wrong with except small things. When the therapist called her out on hypocrisy of that statement, she stated that the BF's provide her something that I do not have that she is craving. After that, what I am craving is a divorce. I have never seen someone so unremorseful outside of OJ in my life. She has said in private she "Refuses" to end her relationship with the OM, and she will not a divorce. I am so udderly confused here. What is going on here? She is caught, she admits to the relationship and she still will not pull the trigger on divorce. Is this just suicide by police? Does she need for me to be the bad guy in this? I wish she would just end the hurt and end the marriage. Does she need to keep me on the line because she really doesn't want to be with the OM, or is it that she is deriving some pleasure in watching me wither away physically, mentally, and emotionally? Has anyone had a cheating spouse ever do this to them? What was the outcome?


You need to end it. How can you stay and let her demean you. If you do not have any kids, just leave. She can not stop the divorce if you want it.


----------



## Shaggy

Why haven't you gone nuclear with exposure and divorce?

Your wife sat across from you can told you to your face with a witness that she will not stop cheating.

She won't stop cheating.

Nuclear is the option now.


----------



## OldWolf57

How is she keeping you on the line ??? Thats your doing.
If you are not into S&M, then file and get on with your life.

To her, you are just a domestic servant. 
Now answer these. How much respect does she have for you??
How much respect do you have for yourself ??


----------



## Madman1

Part of what people are telling you here is that your wife will never have more respect for you than you have for yourself.

You are showing very little self respect, 
and she is completely Diss-ing you!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## RaisedGarden

Madman1 said:


> Part of what people are telling you here is that your wife will never have more respect for you than you have for yourself.
> 
> You are showing very little self respect,
> and she is completely Diss-ing you!!!!!!!!!!!!!


To avoid the psychobabble, I have never really had a great self image or respect for that matter. She is only the latest in a long list of girls who have cheated on me. I know I am the only one to blame for being walked on the way that I am, but it's my lot in life. I have begun the 180. I attempted to move my clothes into the guest room to remove myself from the same bed, unfortunately the closet hasn't any hanger bar. So this weekend I'm heading down to IKEA and buying a wardrobe. I spoke with a number of lawyers who want way more than I have in savings as a retainer. I'm being pushed by them to marriage mediation at a great savings to traditional divorce. Has anyone tried this? Does anyone think out there that my wife will be honorable enough to go through a mediator? I want to thank everyone for their help through this. Just letting you know that we are 4 days since the MC session and her calling and texting has doubled to the OM. I guess she has made up her mind and to save my sanity I have no choice but to divorce.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Wow. Smh. Man, you don't have to live like this. Believe me. There's a man hiding in there someplace. I'm not religious but I'm praying that you find him. Fast.


----------



## Shamwow

Why are you moving into the guest bedroom instead of moving her into it? Calmly put yourself together now...you owe her no favors. You don't have to take any more onto your back. 

Wardrobe or no...just put all her things in the guest bedroom and tell her she gave up her right to the marital bed and she'll be fine in the other room.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> To avoid the psychobabble, I have never really had a great self image or respect for that matter. She is only the latest in a long list of girls who have cheated on me. I know I am the only one to blame for being walked on the way that I am, but it's my lot in life. I have begun the 180. I attempted to move my clothes into the guest room to remove myself from the same bed, unfortunately the closet hasn't any hanger bar. So this weekend I'm heading down to IKEA and buying a wardrobe. I spoke with a number of lawyers who want way more than I have in savings as a retainer. I'm being pushed by them to marriage mediation at a great savings to traditional divorce. Has anyone tried this? Does anyone think out there that my wife will be honorable enough to go through a mediator? I want to thank everyone for their help through this. Just letting you know that we are 4 days since the MC session and her calling and texting has doubled to the OM. I guess she has made up her mind and to save my sanity I have no choice but to divorce.


Find a lawyer you can work a weekly payment plan on my god for your own self respect and sanity and kick her out drive her to the om house have her served there.


----------



## Madman1

Ouch sorry,
You named your thread "Did I go about this all wrong?"
My mistake. 
but you have enough self respect to not want to stay in the situation.

I hope it works out for you man. Take care


----------



## Machiavelli

Garden, who makes more dough? You or her?


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

You said you were cheated on earlier also, what kind of ladies you are choosing to be with? next time be careful.
Move her to the guest bed room, show her that you took the balls from her purse and put it back in its original place.

Expose to all, it may force her for agreeing to D.


----------



## Chaparral

RaisedGarden said:


> To avoid the psychobabble, I have never really had a great self image or respect for that matter. She is only the latest in a long list of girls who have cheated on me. I know I am the only one to blame for being walked on the way that I am, but it's my lot in life. I have begun the 180. I attempted to move my clothes into the guest room to remove myself from the same bed, unfortunately the closet hasn't any hanger bar. So this weekend I'm heading down to IKEA and buying a wardrobe. I spoke with a number of lawyers who want way more than I have in savings as a retainer. I'm being pushed by them to marriage mediation at a great savings to traditional divorce. Has anyone tried this? Does anyone think out there that my wife will be honorable enough to go through a mediator? I want to thank everyone for their help through this. Just letting you know that we are 4 days since the MC session and her calling and texting has doubled to the OM. I guess she has made up her mind and to save my sanity I have no choice but to divorce.


Until the divorce, half of what she makes is yours in most places.

If you have joint accts, take half the money and open a new acct.

Repeated relationship failures, go here and get the book:

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


----------



## Chaparral

Machiavelli said:


> Garden, who makes more dough? You or her?


she makes 5x


----------



## Kasler

^ And thats one of the reasons of a lack of respect. 

He lets her walk all over him, lets her have the bedroom, and since hes talking about pulling from savings instead of a joint account he doesn't even know where her money is. 

I would say she has him by the balls, but I don't see how that could be possible with the lack of them existing

Raised, you need to man up, no one is gonna do it for you, and if you think a wife who flat out degrades you in MC is going to have a fair mediation then I have a wormhole I can sell you. 

Take all her crap, throw it in the guest room. 

Get a weekly plan, or do research and learn how you can file yourself and get the ball rolling. 

You need to stop asking her what she wants to do and then REACTING, and be the one who ACTs. 

Your self image is irrelevant in the choice you have before you. 

no matter what self respect/confidence issues you have it comes down to two things

A or B, no excuses or justifications or middlegrounds.

A) Do you want to live a life in a multi person marriage and be treated like a foot rug by your wife while she showers affections upon other men

B) Do you want to move on with your life and be in a relationship where you are respected whether its with your wife or not?

If your answer is A, then consign yourself to your fate and enjoy the life of a cuckold. 

If your answer is B, then its time to go nuclear. Expose to family and friends, file divorce, kick her out of the marital bedroom, and go 180 and not pretend it but live it. 


The choice is yours.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Many times I've seen courts order husbands to pay for their wives lawyer in divorce court. Lack of money is no excuse to remain a cuckold.


----------



## alte Dame

There aren't many women on your thread, so I'll give one female perspective to the questions you have about your W's motives.

You ask why she doesn't want divorce, but refuses to give up the bf. The standard answer is cake-eating, but with her I think it's all about control.

She needs to control every situation. If you make a decision, she has to countermand it. You want a divorce - sorry, no deal. You have evidence of her cheating - too bad, no, you don't really have evidence. She insists that she's always in the driver's seat no matter what.

It's up to you to throw her out of the car. You can do it. She's kind of a sociopath.


----------



## RaisedGarden

alte Dame said:


> There aren't many women on your thread, so I'll give one female perspective to the questions you have about your W's motives.
> 
> You ask why she doesn't want divorce, but refuses to give up the bf. The standard answer is cake-eating, but with her I think it's all about control.
> 
> She needs to control every situation. If you make a decision, she has to countermand it. You want a divorce - sorry, no deal. You have evidence of her cheating - too bad, no, you don't really have evidence. She insists that she's always in the driver's seat no matter what.
> 
> It's up to you to throw her out of the car. You can do it. She's kind of a sociopath.


Sometimes it takes another set of eyes to see the picture is crooked. Thanks for the insight. She is beyond a type A personality and it really is all about control. She has always controlled me in the relationship through a number of tactics, but this is what is throwing her in a tizzy when I start to do stuff outside of her purview. This also why her interest in a younger subordinate, much easier for her to puppet master. This is also why she has no interest in me anymore. She has complete control over me, and therefore boring. I really have been a dumb ass to think that I could have her kneel before common sense and reason. I have but no choice but to go full 180 and pick up the pieces as they lay. I really want to know though what the hell she is going to get out of therapy if she has now intentions of righting her wrong. All well, maybe next time i'll get it right.


----------



## the guy

Maybe she is going to therapy as a front, again to control everything by making it look like she is doing the right thing.

It could be just part of her damage control.


----------



## walkonmars

She'll know how serious you are when you expose her at her job. Until then you are blowing hot air in her opinion. 

Time for her to see the worm has turned.


----------



## sandc

RaisedGarden said:


> All well, maybe next time i'll get it right.


That's right, bud. You can find someone better. And remember, this is isn't something you did wrong. All you did wrong was pick a messed up woman. Don't do that again.


----------



## akashNil

RaisedGarden said:


> ....
> So for better or worse I listened to online advise and approached her Parents, friends, and the *gentleman *himself to let them know what my wife was doing and I was wise to it.


:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead: You call him a gentleman?


----------



## RaisedGarden

akashNil said:


> :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead: You call him a gentleman?


He's just a kid. Low level job, attractive superior is giving gifts, attention, sex. I know that I would never mess with a married woman, but I can't put the blame directly at his feet. From what I saw of the captured texts and emails, she is the aggressor, and he comes off very juvenile and sophomoric in his writing and return of love to her. He has also offered to call off the relationship for her to get back to me multiple times. I saw that his family disproves of the relationship so he knows it's wrong, but I chalk it up to the youth of someone 10 years my junior. All well, doesn't matter though both of them are going to be pounding the pavement looking for work after HR finds out about their tryst.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Quick question everyone, when I release the info to my WW place of employment, should I also make the OM parents and family aware of the affair via Facebook? The OM still lives home with his parents. Does this come off too aggressive or weird if I do this??


----------



## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> Quick question everyone, when I release the info to my WW place of employment, should I also make the OM parents and family aware of the affair via Facebook? The OM still lives home with his parents. Does this come off too aggressive or weird if I do this??


Go ahead do it give us an update after exposure.


----------



## sandc

If you're going thermonuclear, then my friend, go thermonuclear. Expose far and wide.


----------



## alte Dame

RaisedGarden said:


> I really want to know though what the hell she is going to get out of therapy if she has now intentions of righting her wrong. All well, maybe next time i'll get it right.


What she gets out of the therapy is the latest declaration that you don't get to call any of the shots.

You want therapy? OK, she'll lower herself to go, but that means that it's HER decision & only HER decision - when to go, when to stop.

If she's the personality she sounds like from your posts, her decision-making is all part of a sociopathic pattern.

The best thing you can do for yourself with this type of woman is cut the puppet strings - go complete 180 and absolutely mean it.

She'll try to slap you down, try to rein you back in, bring you under her thumb again, but if you hold fast, you can break her instead. 

If you do this calmly, with a smile, it will drive her around the bend.

And I know that you feel like a real doormat here, but I have to say I've seen women like this before & they spend their lives determined to emasculate men, all types of men. So give yourself a little break. I think it's much more on her than on you.


----------



## Thor

Yes she sounds like a true sociopath.


----------



## RaisedGarden

alte Dame said:


> What she gets out of the therapy is the latest declaration that you don't get to call any of the shots.
> 
> You want therapy? OK, she'll lower herself to go, but that means that it's HER decision & only HER decision - when to go, when to stop.
> 
> If she's the personality she sounds like from your posts, her decision-making is all part of a sociopathic pattern.
> 
> The best thing you can do for yourself with this type of woman is cut the puppet strings - go complete 180 and absolutely mean it.
> 
> She'll try to slap you down, try to rein you back in, bring you under her thumb again, but if you hold fast, you can break her instead.
> 
> If you do this calmly, with a smile, it will drive her around the bend.
> 
> And I know that you feel like a real doormat here, but I have to say I've seen women like this before & they spend their lives determined to emasculate men, all types of men. So give yourself a little break. I think it's much more on her than on you.


Knowing her, she will never be broken. Despite being caught, friends and family knowing that she is a cheater, and told by the MC to drop the boyfriend she still maintains communication and refuses to stop it. She is a conductor of a run away train very much asleep at the controls. She is beyond distant at this point, and the only emotion I get from her is anger if at all. The only time she shows any remorse or sadness is when the dissolution of the assets of the marriage is discussed. It's pretty bad that the wine collection gets a tear, and I don't. She is a lost cause and despite what I may have thought at the beginning of this journey, she is lost and not the person I ever knew. Even if she decides suddenly to come back, I don't know if I want her back after what she has put me through, and of the likelihood of her just doing this again with him or some other lackey she is in charge of. It's been a roller coaster for the last 14 years, and 2 years of the marriage, but like all good times this one has come to it's end. I'm telling my intentions of divorce to the MC and have begun the paperwork for a legal separation. She has had her chance and alas I cannot remain on the outskirts of her life as she drifts through the fog of her affair. Your actions have consequences and now is the time for the reckoning.


----------



## Louise7

RaisedGarden said:


> Knowing her, she will never be broken. Despite being caught, friends and family knowing that she is a cheater, and told by the MC to drop the boyfriend she still maintains communication and refuses to stop it. She is a conductor of a run away train very much asleep at the controls. She is beyond distant at this point, and the only emotion I get from her is anger if at all. The only time she shows any remorse or sadness is when the dissolution of the assets of the marriage is discussed. It's pretty bad that the wine collection gets a tear, and I don't. She is a lost cause and despite what I may have thought at the beginning of this journey, she is lost and not the person I ever knew. Even if she decides suddenly to come back, I don't know if I want her back after what she has put me through, and of the likelihood of her just doing this again with him or some other lackey she is in charge of. It's been a roller coaster for the last 14 years, and 2 years of the marriage, but like all good times this one has come to it's end. I'm telling my intentions of divorce to the MC and have begun the paperwork for a legal separation. She has had her chance and alas I cannot remain on the outskirts of her life as she drifts through the fog of her affair. Your actions have consequences and now is the time for the reckoning.


I think your earlier comment about how splitting the wine collection caused her the most upset was spot on. Let her drift in the fog. You are worth so much more.


----------



## alte Dame

Right now she's got her AP to be in charge of. Didn't you describe him as a very young man who lives with his parents, is decidedly below her on the ladder at work, and has expressed willingness to bow out of the A for the sake of her marriage? (May be misremembering).

I'll bet that even though she's got this guy in her pocket, she won't like losing complete control of you & will give you no end of trouble in a separation and divorce.


----------



## RaisedGarden

alte Dame said:


> Right now she's got her AP to be in charge of. Didn't you describe him as a very young man who lives with his parents, is decidedly below her on the ladder at work, and has expressed willingness to bow out of the A for the sake of her marriage? (May be misremembering).
> 
> I'll bet that even though she's got this guy in her pocket, she won't like losing complete control of you & will give you no end of trouble in a separation and divorce.


Yeah, he is only 25 and I'm 35 so there is a world of difference between those two ages. He seems to be immature, and thinks he has the world by it's balls. Unfortunately he and my wife are both losing their employment because of their stupidity, so life lesson learned for the young lad. Also in the field they both work this will follow them anywhere they try to get employment so I do feel kind of bad for him. That is why I resisted so long in disclosure to their job. 

As for the divorce thing, I'm starting to catch a whiff of the knock out drag out war it is going to be. Her best friend is a lawyer and spends almost as much time talking to the OM as her now that I know about the affair. She also seems to throw threats at me like "I pay the mortgage, so you have to move out", "The credit cards you have with all the debt incurred while you paid my way through school, I didn't ask you to do that", or "You can't split up the dogs so I get them both." etc.... So not only is she getting to have an affair that "I forced her into", but she gets to keep the house, the stuff in it, and leave me with all the debt. Class act she is. So yeah my lawyer said I'm going to get hosed since we weren't married for 10 years, and the debt I can always declare bankruptcy on and deal with credit issues for 7 years. Isn't life grand that in the end she gets to hold all the cards because I was dumb enough to love her and help pay her way through medical school. Life lesson learned.


----------



## alte Dame

RaisedGarden said:


> Yeah, he is only 25 and I'm 35 so there is a world of difference between those two ages. He seems to be immature, and thinks he has the world by it's balls. Unfortunately he and my wife are both losing their employment because of their stupidity, so life lesson learned for the young lad. Also in the field they both work this will follow them anywhere they try to get employment so I do feel kind of bad for him. That is why I resisted so long in disclosure to their job.
> 
> As for the divorce thing, I'm starting to catch a whiff of the knock out drag out war it is going to be. Her best friend is a lawyer and spends almost as much time talking to the OM as her now that I know about the affair. She also seems to throw threats at me like "I pay the mortgage, so you have to move out", "The credit cards you have with all the debt incurred while you paid my way through school, I didn't ask you to do that", or "You can't split up the dogs so I get them both." etc.... So not only is she getting to have an affair that "I forced her into", but she gets to keep the house, the stuff in it, and leave me with all the debt. Class act she is. So yeah my lawyer said I'm going to get hosed since we weren't married for 10 years, and the debt I can always declare bankruptcy on and deal with credit issues for 7 years. Isn't life grand that in the end she gets to hold all the cards because I was dumb enough to love her and help pay her way through medical school. Life lesson learned.


Scorched earth. I hope you have your own supportive army, at the very least a smart, good lawyer. Given all of this, a 180 would help you cope, no?


----------



## RaisedGarden

alte Dame said:


> Scorched earth. I hope you have your own supportive army, at the very least a smart, good lawyer. Given all of this, a 180 would help you cope, no?


I have been attempting the 180, but with the hurricane and 2 weeks without power it has been very hard to be detached while under the same roof. Now that things are normalizing and I can get my wardrobe for clothing I'm moving to another room this week. She can also stop making honeydew lists for me as well. I'm not Alice or Rosey, she can pay someone to clean her own room, to do her wash, and to take her car for washing. I will be hospitable, but I will no longer make and put diner aside for her. I will not go to the dry cleaners and pick up her stuff. I will not go to her parents and help them do yard work, or construction. She has lost those privileges and I have always had a hard time saying no to anyone who has asked for my help, but No is word she is going to have to get used to in my vocabulary.


----------



## Chaparral

RaisedGarden said:


> I have been attempting the 180, but with the hurricane and 2 weeks without power it has been very hard to be detached while under the same roof. Now that things are normalizing and I can get my wardrobe for clothing I'm moving to another room this week. She can also stop making honeydew lists for me as well. I'm not Alice or Rosey, she can pay someone to clean her own room, to do her wash, and to take her car for washing. I will be hospitable, but I will no longer make and put diner aside for her. I will not go to the dry cleaners and pick up her stuff. I will not go to her parents and help them do yard work, or construction. She has lost those privileges and I have always had a hard time saying no to anyone who has asked for my help, but No is word she is going to have to get used to in my vocabulary.


Has no one recommeded Married Man Sex Life to you?

Its not a sex guide by the way and it will show you why your wife treats you like she does.

Hint, a woman does NOT want to be married to the maid.


----------



## alte Dame

RaisedGarden said:


> I have been attempting the 180, but with the hurricane and 2 weeks without power it has been very hard to be detached while under the same roof. Now that things are normalizing and I can get my wardrobe for clothing I'm moving to another room this week. She can also stop making honeydew lists for me as well. I'm not Alice or Rosey, she can pay someone to clean her own room, to do her wash, and to take her car for washing. I will be hospitable, but I will no longer make and put diner aside for her. I will not go to the dry cleaners and pick up her stuff. I will not go to her parents and help them do yard work, or construction. She has lost those privileges and I have always had a hard time saying no to anyone who has asked for my help, but No is word she is going to have to get used to in my vocabulary.


You sound like a very nice man. I think your W wants a nice man, but for all the wrong reasons.

Anyway, the 180 should be for you, for your own emotional protection, so I hope the circumstances start allowing you to implement it.


----------



## RaisedGarden

alte Dame said:


> You sound like a very nice man. I think your W wants a nice man, but for all the wrong reasons.
> 
> Anyway, the 180 should be for you, for your own emotional protection, so I hope the circumstances start allowing you to implement it.


Why is it that I am always referred to as a "nice man". I have married friends who are complete ****s to their wives, and all the wives do is complain to me how they would want a husband like me. Then fast forward to my wife, and she treats me like dirt. There has to be a happy middle, but I suffer the curse of being a "Nice Man". I guess I have to go to the dark side and just be the stereotypical A-hole man to get any respect.


----------



## Acabado

Just in case you didn't get the link earlier:

No More Mr Nice Guy


----------



## walkonmars

Raised:
You can be both. Nice AND respected. 
Until now you have only been nice. Respect BEGINS within YOU. 

When you respect yourself you refuse to be taken advantage of gratuitously. You do not allow anyone to disrespect you. Never ever. You act with integrity and demand same.


----------



## Chaparral

RaisedGarden said:


> Why is it that I am always referred to as a "nice man". I have married friends who are complete ****s to their wives, and all the wives do is complain to me how they would want a husband like me. Then fast forward to my wife, and she treats me like dirt. There has to be a happy middle, but I suffer the curse of being a "Nice Man". I guess I have to go to the dark side and just be the stereotypical A-hole man to get any respect.


LOL the answer to this question is in MMSL. Download it now and order the book at amazon.com (for one).


----------



## Chaparral

No offense to the lovely ladies here, but since when did you notice that what comes out of a womans mouth is what they want? Except occaionally at Christmas time of course.


----------



## kenmoore14217

"I have married friends who are complete ****s to their wives, and all the wives do is complain to me how they would want a husband like me"

This is NOT a compliment RG. It should read: Why can't I find a doorknob as dumb as RG!!


----------



## alte Dame

RaisedGarden said:


> Why is it that I am always referred to as a "nice man". I have married friends who are complete ****s to their wives, and all the wives do is complain to me how they would want a husband like me. Then fast forward to my wife, and she treats me like dirt. There has to be a happy middle, but I suffer the curse of being a "Nice Man". I guess I have to go to the dark side and just be the stereotypical A-hole man to get any respect.


There's nice and there's too nice. Although the traits and behaviors are different for men and women, this goes in both directions. I don't want my husband to be a doormat with me, but I won't be one with him either. There's a balance & I don't think you have had a balance in your marriage.

I get what the guys here are saying, but I can also say that I don't think this would matter with your wife because she sounds like a very particular type of woman. I think she demands a 'too nice' guy so that she can be in charge. I would bet that she wouldn't tolerate anything different for herself.

I think if you're not the typical 'nice guy,' she dumps you because she can't be in control. If you are the typical nice guy, she controls you for a while until the next nice guy comes along for her to control. (This could all be psychobabble, I know. Am only interpreting the text here.)


----------



## Thor

No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin

So she is a doc and you paid the bills through her med school. Even if you haven't been married ten years (is that the alimony threshold where you live?) a lawyer should be able to spin this as she has huge earning potential and she has abused your kindness of paying her way through school.

If the roles were reversed, as it usually is, and a wife supported hubby through med school the courts usually award a lot to the jilted wife.

I would interview another shark atty to see if you get a better picture. There is no way you should be stuck with the debt. Worst case would be 50/50 split of assets and debt between you, but the situation is so lopsided that an atty should get some kind of proportional split of debt based on income, so she would get the larger share. Since she earns and can earn so much, she should shoulder much of the debt accumulated due to her being in school.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Thor said:


> No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin
> 
> So she is a doc and you paid the bills through her med school. Even if you haven't been married ten years (is that the alimony threshold where you live?) a lawyer should be able to spin this as she has huge earning potential and she has abused your kindness of paying her way through school.
> 
> If the roles were reversed, as it usually is, and a wife supported hubby through med school the courts usually award a lot to the jilted wife.
> 
> I would interview another shark atty to see if you get a better picture. There is no way you should be stuck with the debt. Worst case would be 50/50 split of assets and debt between you, but the situation is so lopsided that an atty should get some kind of proportional split of debt based on income, so she would get the larger share. Since she earns and can earn so much, she should shoulder much of the debt accumulated due to her being in school.


The deal in my state is no alimony is awarded to Husbands without 10 years of marriage. With wives the threshold is only 2 years, but hey I live in a F'd up state. I was told that I could possibly get Rehab Alimony for up to the length of the marriage, so I could get some money for 2 years, but I was also told that it's a long shot depending on the hearing judge. In other words I'm getting the shaft and the balls on this deal. So she gets to ride off into her sunset with the OM, the dogs, and whats in the house. I get left with the debt. All well. Live some, learn some.


----------



## walkonmars

RaisedGarden said:


> ...So she gets to ride off into her sunset with the OM, the dogs, and whats in the house. I get left with the debt. All well. Live some, learn some.


She gets to ride off with the stain of adultery, thievery, dishonor, and shame. 

You get to ride off with your honor and integrity in tact. 

Money comes and goes. The things above are worth more in the scheme of your lives. 

Of the three: You, her, OM - who is most respectable? the one with the money? the one with the lover? or the one with integrity?


----------



## RaisedGarden

OK everyone who has been listening to this thread I have a story for you that is just blowing my mind. I cannot wrap my being around it, or have any comprehension in why she would do this. So here it goes. 

So everyone knows that my marriage is ending, and that me and my wife haven't been intimate for over 6 months. All she is when around me is angry, and she refuses to stop contact with the OM. Enough said right, nope. So I just found out that my wife has booked in the last week a get away weekend with two other couples in a coming weekend. The people that she invited are all my best friends I have known long before her. The place only has 3 bedrooms, so we will need to share a bed. Why in the name of all that is holy would she do this? The people who will be there all know the story about us, and she knows it. Is she flipping her lid here, or is there some Machiavellian scheme here that she will get out of doing this? I am completely lost. What does everyone out there think she is trying to accomplish by doing this? Thanks


----------



## RaisedGarden

walkonmars said:


> She gets to ride off with the stain of adultery, thievery, dishonor, and shame.
> 
> You get to ride off with your honor and integrity in tact.
> 
> Money comes and goes. The things above are worth more in the scheme of your lives.
> 
> Of the three: You, her, OM - who is most respectable? the one with the money? the one with the lover? or the one with integrity?


I keep telling myself when this is all well and done, at least I will be the one who will be able to sleep at night and look myself in the mirror. I don't know if the narcissism will wear off long enough for her to see what she has done and become in all of this, but hey I can dream.


----------



## walkonmars

You know very well. She's trying to save her job and her lover's job. Her buttt cheeks are clenched and in a desperate attempt you will be bombarded with 'heart-felt' lectures on letting bygones be bygones. Of how 'revenge' hurts both - not just one. 

She has enlisted YOUR friends, with or without their knowledge of this hidden agenda. Be prepared for an avalanche of rationales and talks of 'acting like a mature adult' 

When these start just say: "You have an interesting outlook. I'll have to think about it but I'm not prepared to discuss that now. Thanks anyway"


----------



## Kasler

RaisedGarden said:


> The deal in my state is no alimony is awarded to Husbands without 10 years of marriage. With wives the threshold is only 2 years, but hey I live in a F'd up state. I was told that I could possibly get Rehab Alimony for up to the length of the marriage, so I could get some money for 2 years, but I was also told that it's a long shot depending on the hearing judge. In other words I'm getting the shaft and the balls on this deal. So she gets to ride off into her sunset with the OM, the dogs, and whats in the house. I get left with the debt. All well. *Live some, learn some*.


Yeah, don't rugsweep infidelity and marry adulterous women. 

Still trying to wrap my head around how you walked in on her cheating and then married her anyways.


----------



## Chaparral

Ask her what her objectve is? There is a chance she will tell you the truth. Are you considering going under present circumstances?
Tell her everyone knows whats going on so what is she thinking.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Kasler said:


> Yeah, don't rugsweep infidelity and marry adulterous women.
> 
> Still trying to wrap my head around how you walked in on her cheating and then married her anyways.


Hey I'm a romantic and dumb. A dangerous combo. We had a break when I discovered her last time, and I had two rather disastrous rebound relationships, I was scared straight back to her. She was always there in the background calling and texting me. Now looking back, she is probably the reason the one relationship had ended(I was forthcoming with what was going on, I don't blame her for leaving). So now here I am alone, scarred, and have a crying woman at my feet who I was still not over, and I bought her BS hook line and sinker. Then things progressed and got better, and I proposed. Also, in hindsight I think she got off on me being with another girl why she was doing this, and I now realize that she needed money and I was always willing to shower her with it. So I got used, and have wasted the last 7 years of my life. All well.


----------



## jim123

RaisedGarden said:


> OK everyone who has been listening to this thread I have a story for you that is just blowing my mind. I cannot wrap my being around it, or have any comprehension in why she would do this. So here it goes.
> 
> So everyone knows that my marriage is ending, and that me and my wife haven't been intimate for over 6 months. All she is when around me is angry, and she refuses to stop contact with the OM. Enough said right, nope. So I just found out that my wife has booked in the last week a get away weekend with two other couples in a coming weekend. The people that she invited are all my best friends I have known long before her. The place only has 3 bedrooms, so we will need to share a bed. Why in the name of all that is holy would she do this? The people who will be there all know the story about us, and she knows it. Is she flipping her lid here, or is there some Machiavellian scheme here that she will get out of doing this? I am completely lost. What does everyone out there think she is trying to accomplish by doing this? Thanks


Are you sure you are the one invited.


----------



## RaisedGarden

walkonmars said:


> You know very well. She's trying to save her job and her lover's job. Her buttt cheeks are clenched and in a desperate attempt you will be bombarded with 'heart-felt' lectures on letting bygones be bygones. Of how 'revenge' hurts both - not just one.
> 
> She has enlisted YOUR friends, with or without their knowledge of this hidden agenda. Be prepared for an avalanche of rationales and talks of 'acting like a mature adult'
> 
> When these start just say: "You have an interesting outlook. I'll have to think about it but I'm not prepared to discuss that now. Thanks anyway"


She doesn't know about my information release. I mentioned it once during D-Day, but she freaked and told me that I have no idea what she would do to me if I did that. I backed off and never mentioned it again. I don't know if this would be the first thing she would want to accomplish by doing this. My taxation lawyer friend thinks she is trying to have me let my guard down, and have a False R so that I will have sex with her to take divorce for Adultery off the table to make a better case for her in court. Then again he is a lawyer so he would think that way.


----------



## alte Dame

RaisedGarden said:


> OK everyone who has been listening to this thread I have a story for you that is just blowing my mind. I cannot wrap my being around it, or have any comprehension in why she would do this. So here it goes.
> 
> So everyone knows that my marriage is ending, and that me and my wife haven't been intimate for over 6 months. All she is when around me is angry, and she refuses to stop contact with the OM. Enough said right, nope. So I just found out that my wife has booked in the last week a get away weekend with two other couples in a coming weekend. The people that she invited are all my best friends I have known long before her. The place only has 3 bedrooms, so we will need to share a bed. Why in the name of all that is holy would she do this? The people who will be there all know the story about us, and she knows it. Is she flipping her lid here, or is there some Machiavellian scheme here that she will get out of doing this? I am completely lost. What does everyone out there think she is trying to accomplish by doing this? Thanks


She went ahead and booked this on her own with no consultation or discussion. She does what she wants & doesn't sound like she wants any lip from you.

No doubt she has some self-serving agenda (perhaps about saving face as well as her job), but her very first impulse always seems to be in charge, to make the decisions for both of you.

Can't you just say NO? Can't you just ignore & go about your own business? Can't you refuse to be told what to do?


----------



## RaisedGarden

jim123 said:


> Are you sure you are the one invited.


yeah she has already invited me, and my friends have already told me how I am part of the plans. So no she isn't going to go hang out with my friends alone, or with the OM.


----------



## RaisedGarden

alte Dame said:


> She went ahead and booked this on her own with no consultation or discussion. She does what she wants & doesn't sound like she wants any lip from you.
> 
> No doubt she has some self-serving agenda (perhaps about saving face as well as her job), but her very first impulse always seems to be in charge, to make the decisions for both of you.
> 
> Can't you just say NO? Can't you just ignore & go about your own business? Can't you refuse to be told what to do?


I have just found out in the last 2 hours. I haven't even been able to talk to her about how dumb an idea it is. I just get a group forward text about the deposit being paid, and the back and forth about what everyone needs to bring and do for the get away. I am so new to the whole thing I have no idea on what I am even going to say to her and my friends. I also don't want to skip out on hanging out with my friends since I have been such a crappy friend as of late due to all of this going on. I'm conflicted and confused. It's a tough bind to be in by her own making. I think she wants to see me squirm.


----------



## Kasler

And why not just tell her to I dunno, fvck off? 

Please tell me you have enough self respect for that.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Kasler said:


> And why not just tell her to I dunno, fvck off?
> 
> Please tell me you have enough self respect for that.


That was my first feeling about this. I would love to do that in a more tactful way, but I also want to see what the hell is she up to. Curosity killed the cat I guess. What's the worse that could come out of this?


----------



## Machiavelli

RaisedGarden said:


> My taxation lawyer friend thinks she is trying to have me let my guard down, and have a False R so that I will have sex with her to take divorce for Adultery off the table to make a better case for her in court. Then again he is a lawyer so he would think that way.


That's her Machiavellian scheme. Don't stay alone with her. Don't take the trip.


----------



## Thor

RaisedGarden said:


> My taxation lawyer friend thinks she is trying to have me let my guard down, and have a False R so that I will have sex with her to take divorce for Adultery off the table to make a better case for her in court.


:iagree::iagree:

Having sex with her can be legal forgiveness. You lose all leverage. DO NOT have sex with her no matter what!


----------



## RaisedGarden

Thor said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Having sex with her can be legal forgiveness. You lose all leverage. DO NOT have sex with her no matter what!


Ok, so my friend wasn't just being a paranoid lawyer. I am in the process of moving everything out of our room to sleep in the guest room. I guess I really need to be vigilant about this. Does anyone know if she can lie about having sex to avoid paying in the divorce proceedings? If so, is the only defense moving off the premises??


----------



## Chaparral

Thor said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Having sex with her can be legal forgiveness. You lose all leverage. DO NOT have sex with her no matter what!


If he goes there will be four witness to testify he spent the night with her. 

You should ask your friends how and who instigated all this. If your friends did thats very odd unless they think they can get you back together. In any case its a trap.


----------



## Acabado

Sex = forgiving, condoning the adultery.

Standard answer: No Thanks (Looking at the ghost, to the wall behind her).


----------



## Chaparral

Of course you could always go and take a sleeping bag for the floor unless these are separate hotel rooms.


----------



## Thor

You seem to need a better divorce lawyer. Try also reading the forums and articles at dadsdivorce.com . 

(Disclaimer: A law firm sponsors that site but the info and forums are excellent. I am not associated with them, and I selected a lawyer not from their firm.)


----------



## tom67

Machiavelli said:


> That's her Machiavellian scheme. Don't stay alone with her. Don't take the trip.


Please have alittle self respect and simply DO NOT GO! Do not argue just walk away. So when do you think they will be fired? You did expose to hr already right?


----------



## RaisedGarden

tom67 said:


> Please have alittle self respect and simply DO NOT GO! Do not argue just walk away. So when do you think they will be fired? You did expose to hr already right?


No I haven't exposed to her HR just yet. I really don't have the killer instinct and I really can't have her and the OM loose their jobs on my account. Also I have a meeting with the MC on Weds by my self. I want to run it by her before I go all scorched earth. 

Also for those of you wondering who initiated the get together, it was my friends that started the ball rolling, and who all said that they want us to work it out when I had told them about the EA/PA. The WW is OCD to a fault and always is the planer for all these gatherings. I guess everyone just fell on old habits and involved her from the get go. I spoke with my one friend already who says that I should go despite the awkwardness of it all. I told him there may be legal ramifications if I do go to with them, and he felt that it was overkill. In any case I think I am going to wait to the last minute and pull out then. This way if she had any other plans or schemes, she will be tied to them in the end.


----------



## walkonmars

RaisedGarden said:


> No I haven't exposed to her HR just yet. I really don't have the killer instinct and* I really can't have her and the OM loose their jobs on my account.* Also I have a meeting with the MC on Weds by my self. I want to run it by her before I go all scorched earth.
> 
> Also for those of you wondering who initiated the get together, it was my friends that started the ball rolling, and who all said that they want us to work it out when I had told them about the EA/PA. The WW is OCD to a fault and always is the planer for all these gatherings. I guess everyone just fell on old habits and involved her from the get go. I spoke with my one friend already who says that I should go despite the awkwardness of it all. I told him there may be legal ramifications if I do go to with them, and he felt that it was overkill. In any case I think I am going to wait to the last minute and pull out then. This way if she had any other plans or schemes, she will be tied to them in the end.


On your account?
Did I miss something? You didn't pimp her out did you? You should have said this from the start!

J/K

It's not your 'fault' there are consequences.


----------



## Acabado

Your friends have the better intentions, the heart in the right place. It doesn't make them specially good counselors/advicers. Quite the contrary.

It's easy I won't spend willingly a single minute in the same room with a woman who:
Cheated on me AND it's not an inch remorseful about it.
Showns no empathy.
Won't accept personal responsability.
Act as an entitled princess, narcissistic beatch who believes she deserves it.
After using your for years in order to fulfill her dream is more than happy to dump you to the curve now she feels "above" you just because you are not of use for her anymore.
It's more than willing to leave you with notihng after taking all from you.

And the worse of all:
It's still cheating on me and tells you won't stop doing it. What will leave you accepting the role of a cukc0ld.

If any of your friends who come with good intentions tell the above.


----------



## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> No I haven't exposed to her HR just yet. I really don't have the killer instinct and I really can't have her and the OM loose their jobs on my account. Also I have a meeting with the MC on Weds by my self. I want to run it by her before I go all scorched earth.
> 
> Also for those of you wondering who initiated the get together, it was my friends that started the ball rolling, and who all said that they want us to work it out when I had told them about the EA/PA. The WW is OCD to a fault and always is the planer for all these gatherings. I guess everyone just fell on old habits and involved her from the get go. I spoke with my one friend already who says that I should go despite the awkwardness of it all. I told him there may be legal ramifications if I do go to with them, and he felt that it was overkill. In any case I think I am going to wait to the last minute and pull out then. This way if she had any other plans or schemes, she will be tied to them in the end.


Expose to hr on monday come on she's walking all over you!


----------



## walkonmars

Why the MC? Has she dumped the underling lover?

No? Then he should be at the meeting with the MC too since she has made him a part of your marriage. What's the point exactly?


----------



## Kasler

RaisedGarden said:


> That was my first feeling about this. I would love to do that in a more tactful way, but I also want to see what the hell is she up to. Curosity killed the cat I guess. What's the worse that could come out of this?


Hmm, I see the problem. 

RG she spoke and took action for you. You were not consulted, you were not informed. She took this without even caring what you may have wanted, and didn't want to hear it either. 

She made the choice for you as if you were a child, but instead of blowing this up, shutting it down and putting her in her place, you're picking out swim trunks?

And you wonder why she has such an egregious lack of respect for you? With that attitude, I'm not too surprised by hers. 

She treats you like sh!t, throws you a bone and you're actually taking the time to consider putting it in your mouth.


----------



## DavidWYoung

Can you leave, because she is so toxic that she makes my GB/DP ex wife look like a nice person. Really can you leave?


----------



## Louise7

RaisedGarden said:


> That was my first feeling about this. I would love to do that in a more tactful way, but I also want to see what the hell is she up to. Curosity killed the cat I guess. What's the worse that could come out of this?


You are being set up. The worse is, you go, she gets you into bed and watch your adultery claim go out the window. Don't do it.


----------



## alte Dame

Louise7 said:


> You are being set up. The worse is, you go, she gets you into bed and watch your adultery claim go out the window. Don't do it.


Yes, your friends may have the best of intentions, but your W does not.


----------



## Remains

Don't EVER go to friends looking for relationship advice where infidelity is concerned. They are worse than useless! 

They know nothing on infidelity, the pain, the heartache, and the head fu*ks. If there is one...just one...that does, in the same way people do here on this forum, then you are equivalent to a lottery winner! 

If I had taken the advice I just wrote I probably would have dumped my man long long long ago and saved myself a lot of pain.


----------



## Shaggy

For heavens sake speak the truth and expose to hr. exposé a wife who refuses to stop cheating, let her and him sort out their careers once the truth is known.

I bet she will bail at the last minute, she will have plans to have the OM over to your house or she will be going for a weekend with him.


----------



## tom67

Shaggy said:


> For heavens sake speak the truth and expose to hr. exposé a wife who refuses to stop cheating, let her and him sort out their careers once the truth is known.
> 
> I bet she will bail at the last minute, she will have plans to have the OM over to your house or she will be going for a weekend with him.


Shaggy god I hope he listens


----------



## Thor

IF D is a possibility (and it should be the plan imo), don't out her to her boss yet. You want her to have a high income so you can get the best possible financial settlement.

Also, looking at your original post I see you are together 14 years. This might make a very strong argument in court that you have been "as married" for that period of time. Akin to a common law marriage, thus entitling you to alimony.

Seriously I think you need to talk to a few more atty's. They typically will offer a free 10 or 15 minute consult. Tell them your story and see what the general consensus is. There is no way you should end up with less than 50% of the net $. Split the assets and debt 50/50. That is your worst case. Much better is that your relative incomes are considered and the causes of the debt are considered, and some leverage using the infidelity (even if not legally pertinent it can be used as leverage). You have nothing to lose by finding a shark of an atty. Worst case is the judge craps all over you, but that is what you are starting out expecting now.


----------



## tom67

Thor said:


> IF D is a possibility (and it should be the plan imo), don't out her to her boss yet. You want her to have a high income so you can get the best possible financial settlement.
> 
> Also, looking at your original post I see you are together 14 years. This might make a very strong argument in court that you have been "as married" for that period of time. Akin to a common law marriage, thus entitling you to alimony.
> 
> Seriously I think you need to talk to a few more atty's. They typically will offer a free 10 or 15 minute consult. Tell them your story and see what the general consensus is. There is no way you should end up with less than 50% of the net $. Split the assets and debt 50/50. That is your worst case. Much better is that your relative incomes are considered and the causes of the debt are considered, and some leverage using the infidelity (even if not legally pertinent it can be used as leverage). You have nothing to lose by finding a shark of an atty. Worst case is the judge craps all over you, but that is what you are starting out expecting now.


Keep this mindset nothing to lose and everything to gain, you will go far.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Hey everyone, so after some more digital snooping I discovered another EA/PA going back to 2004 thats still going on when he gets in to my area. I am so f'n done. I'm out


----------



## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> Hey everyone, so after some more digital snooping I discovered another EA/PA going back to 2004 thats still going on when he gets in to my area. I am so f'n done. I'm out


So sorry man. You deserve way better than this. Call hr now and out her and pos at work!


----------



## Acabado

Shark lawyer, nail her to the wall. Get all you can. Be wise. 

An expose her her to all friends.


----------



## Ovid

RaisedGarden said:


> Hey everyone, so after some more digital snooping I discovered another EA/PA going back to 2004 thats still going on when he gets in to my area. I am so f'n done. I'm out


I'm sorry you went through all of this but I'm glad you're removing yourself from it. Good luck to you.


----------



## Madman1

STD the gift that keeps on giving!


----------



## Remains

RG have you recorded the evidence? Kept it in a safe place with copies just in case? Can you use this as further leverage in the divorce case? (if indeed you do get divorced). So sorry to hear this. Truly crap. Though on the positive (small I know)...has it given you further ammunition and further clarity on what you need to do? And therefore made it easier to execute the necessary?


----------



## RaisedGarden

So I just had it out with her. She had left her laptop in sustain mode and left open an email account I never saw before. All she could say was that "I'm so very sorry" over and over. Not only is she having another EA/PA, but he doesn't even know her real name. She is using a pseudonym with him. Why in hell would someone do that?


----------



## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> So I just had it out with her. She had left her laptop in sustain mode and left open an email account I never saw before. All she could say was that "I'm so very sorry" over and over. Not only is she having another EA/PA, but he doesn't even know her real name. She is using a pseudonym with him. Why in hell would someone do that?


Dude just out her everywhere what a [email protected]!


----------



## Kasler

RaisedGarden said:


> So I just had it out with her. She had left her laptop in sustain mode and left open an email account I never saw before. All she could say was that "I'm so very sorry" over and over. Not only is she having another EA/PA, but he doesn't even know her real name. She is using a pseudonym with him. Why in hell would someone do that?


You need to expose, badly. Shes been having a six year affair. 

I can't fathom why you haven't called a lawyer yet. 

Shes not sorry. Shes sorry she got caught fcvking around for six years. 

And to think, shes been getting angry and short with you this whole time DURING her having an affair. She had you be the bad guy during all this. 

Raised, what you have been doing CLEARLY has NOT been working. Doing more of the same will not help either as the definition of insanity that so often applies to betrayed spouses

_Insanity: Doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results_

File and go nuclear on exposure.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Kasler said:


> You need to expose, badly. Shes been having a six year affair.
> 
> I can't fathom why you haven't called a lawyer yet.
> 
> Shes not sorry. Shes sorry she got caught fcvking around for six years.
> 
> And to think, shes been getting angry and short with you this whole time DURING her having an affair. She had you be the bad guy during all this.
> 
> Raised, what you have been doing CLEARLY has NOT been working. Doing more of the same will not help either as the definition of insanity that so often applies to betrayed spouses
> 
> _Insanity: Doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results_
> 
> File and go nuclear on exposure.


I did one better. I haven't exposed to her work yet as per instructions from both my MC and Lawyer. Both feel that having her fired is going to make any chance of receiving what alimony I may be due much harder. I did go subversive though. I forwarded the "I love you emails" of both guys to each other from the WW. The two guys can fight it out with her on what the hell is she doing there. I figure even if they know she is married and they are cheating on me, they won't stand not being "special" since both seem very wrapped up on their "Unique situation with her". :rofl:


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Ya, maybe one of THEM will act like a man.


----------



## Acabado

Another thing to add to the list of "why I can't go to the vacations" with well intentioned friends. Do they know the latest development? Think they are in the thought they are helping you guys to patch things by setting up this, right? 

Good lord, f0cking this guy since 2004 with a "fake" name?
What's more worrisome is she make them believe they are her soulmate! WTF! Pure sociopath. Don't know mixed PDs.

I'm sure there're way more scheletons. She was smart untill now, don't know whether she got lazy and felt so entitled and empowered with her fabulousness she decided to cross the line with this young subordinate.
Just imagine the countless ONSs, STAs with no trace over the years.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Acabado said:


> Another thing to add to the list of "why I can't go to the vacations" with well intentioned friends. Do they know the latest development? Think they are in the thought they are helping you guys to patch things by setting up this, right?
> 
> Good lord, f0cking this guy since 2004 with a "fake" name?
> What's more worrisome is she make them believe they are her soulmate! WTF! Pure sociopath. Don't know mixed PDs.
> 
> I'm sure there're way more scheletons. She was smart untill now, don't know whether she got lazy and felt so entitled and empowered with her fabulousness she decided to cross the line with this young subordinate.
> Just imagine the countless ONSs, STAs with no trace over the years.


That's my feeling as well. I feel like I married Sybil. Who knows what other email addresses and alternate names and lives does she have. The depravity that is my WW seems to have no bottom. I apparently have never known her, and for her to be having these relationships throughout our entire 14 years just seals the fate of the marriage. Maybe I could have gotten through 1 affair, but two in as many months with so many layers of lies and subterfuge, I'm out. I'm just waiting to find out if there is any bodies hidden in yard, or if she is a nationally ranked MMA fighter. Each layer I peel back the more bizarre the whole thing becomes. I have been a dupe of the first order, and I have no one to blame for that than myself. I never getting married again. What hell is wrong with me to be so wrong?


----------



## sandc

NOTHING is wrong with you. You married an accomplished liar. She has a serious problem. Your only problem is how to get rid of her.


----------



## tom67

Expose after you get a settlement


----------



## warlock07

What about things you may have no idea about.. ONS, emails accounts that she discarded..


----------



## warlock07

RaisedGarden said:


> I did one better. I haven't exposed to her work yet as per instructions from both my MC and Lawyer. Both feel that having her fired is going to make any chance of receiving what alimony I may be due much harder. I did go subversive though. I forwarded the "I love you emails" of both guys to each other from the WW. The two guys can fight it out with her on what the hell is she doing there. I figure even if they know she is married and they are cheating on me, they won't stand not being "special" since both seem very wrapped up on their "Unique situation with her". :rofl:


keep the evidence safe...make more than a few backups


----------



## Acabado

keylog the PC and watch the "cleaning".
Also, follow the money.


----------



## happyman64

Do not cancel your weekend away with your wife.

Just send your MC along with her.

Your wife seriously needs help and good counseling.

For the rest of her life.

Please protect yourself, get tested for STD's, let her parents know what she has been doing so they can help her, divorce her and make sure she agrees to pay off your debts.

It is the least she can do for you.

Then move on and find a good woman with no issues.


----------



## Chaparral

She makes 5xs what you do. Ask her to pay off all the debts and pay you alimony for a few years. If she doesn't agree,let her know you are taking your evidence to her company and you will still be fine. I think her having to send you a monthly check should be a pretty good payback.


----------



## keko

Find the best lawyer in town and have him get the highest alimony for you. You'll expose after divorce but focus on getting the best settlement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

chapparal said:


> She makes 5xs what you do. Ask her to pay off all the debts and pay you alimony for a few years. If she doesn't agree,let her know you are taking your evidence to her company and you will still be fine. I think her having to send you a monthly check should be a pretty good payback.


But do that negotiation through an attorney so it does not come across as blackmail......


----------



## alte Dame

Your wife sounds like a class-A bully and will not go quietly, I would bet.

As she is unmasked, she will give up on trying to force you to believe whatever she wants you to believe about OM. She'll move her battleground to the details of splitting up.

I feel very sorry for you. I think you have a battle royale in front of you. (Didn't she actually spit in your face at one point? May be remembering incorrectly.)

If you can find a really good lawyer who is happy to battle her so that you have to deal with less of it, that would be great.


----------



## Madman1

Its not you, you were decieved, we have all been, a deciever has the advantage, because they rely on your trust


----------



## Madman1

Get as much evidence as you can and keep it in a safe place. Make her open her acounts if you can.

I called it she's a freak, you just cant make this shjt up!


----------



## PHTlump

I haven't been divorced. But, from what I know, all 50 states are no-fault. Which means that adultery has little or no consequence in deciding custody or settlements. Of the real life stories on these boards, the best case I've seen is where the BS was able to quantify the amount spent on the affair and set an equal amount aside for himself in the divorce, before splitting the remainder.

Perhaps, technically, having sex with your wife after her adultery will "forgive" her. But I honestly don't know if it matters.

Someone with experience to the contrary should feel free to correct me here.


----------



## Shaggy

You've only been married for 2 years, so how much alimony are you really executing to get? Or are you in a place that recognizes common law marriage?

Myself I'd go nuclear given this most recent discovery. Alimony or not, you can support yourself and she needs to be held accountable fir being such a tramp.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Ok Everyone here's the update. Sorry haven't been around since I have been dealing with a whole lot that last couple of days. So, as I said in an earlier post I got in contact with the last OM and let him know that my WW was sick and needed help. He promptly sent that email back to my wife with a "I'm out". 

So I return to my home after the OM breaks it with my WW. I have never seen such anger and frustration in another human being. She just sat there seething, and the only words that came out of her mouth were grunts when she was asked questions. At first I thought she had a psychotic break. After awhile she started talking and eventually brought up the email and the OM ending the relationship. The only concern she brought up over and over was how disrespectful it was that I contacted him, and how horrible he must feel after being told this. When I called her out on caring more about the feelings of her boyfriend over her husband she just shut down. She also mentioned how she was ending the relationship that day, and I had beat her to the punch, so not to gloat over the ending of the relationship. 

So there was one thing she asked at the end of all this anger and hate coming out of her mouth that really hit me like a ton of bricks. "Now that you got what you want. Now what?"
It then dawned on me I have been so caught up in bringing the truth to light and the ending of the affair, I have no clue what the hell I want to do next. Can I ever trust this woman again, and now in her new shell of woman that I once knew, will things ever normalize considering how things ended? Will she resent me for ending the relationship for her? So what is everyone's take on this. Do you think that things got so out of hand and I was so consumed in getting her back that I disregarded the obvious choice of leaving her? I am so utterly confused now.


----------



## Chaparral

You don't want to ba married to a serial cheater. What you want is for her to get into counseling to see why she wants to be a promiscuous women who chases young men. There is no future here if she doesn't get real help and wants too.

You have leverage. Write a letter to HR, give her a copy and tell her to get help with IC and MC you both approve of or you will send the letter.


----------



## happyman64

RG

What is there to be confused about.
your marriage had no chance with the POSOM still in the wings. 

And your wife is full of crap that she was ending the Affair. She would have been relieved if she wanted it over.

Step 1. Complete. Affair exposed and dead at this time.

Now take a step back and observe your wife for a few weeks.

You need to see if she can stay away fromOM. Be NC with OM.

You need to see if she shows any remorse for what she has done.

So when she asks you "What now?" Step 2 begins.


You have to determine if you still love her, if she has any value as a wife and more importantly can she step up, do the heavy lifting o repair the marriage as well as herself.

And tht judgement takes weeks if not months.

But time is on your side.

HM64


----------



## happyman64

And with respect to your religious inlaws that "Sybil" so easily deceived.

Invite them to your wife's exorcism.......
:FIREdevil:


----------



## Shaggy

Your onto phase two, which is will she choose to stop being a cheater and change into your faithful loving wife.

Right now she is a WW whose OM dumped her. So she is a WW not currently in a relationship with an OM.

That is not the same by far as a woman who has chosen to be your loving faithful wife.

So what now? She needs to choose to del with and fix that broken part of her that chooses to cheat. When she's done that she will actually have remorse.


----------



## RaisedGarden

I think you voiced in this previous post what you should do. She sealed the fate of the marriage, you never knew her.[/QUOTE]

I will be the first to admit that I have a savior complex. Now that she is at her lowest I don't know how I could leave her, but in the same token after all the BS she has put me through I don't know how I could stay with her. It's one thing to say I'm out when the other person is still hurting you so much, but it's an entirely different animal when the person is hurting so much them self. I'm beyond conflicted at this point.


----------



## PHTlump

RaisedGarden said:


> It's one thing to say I'm out when the other person is still hurting you so much, but it's an entirely different animal when the person is hurting so much them self. I'm beyond conflicted at this point.


I could never be my wife's emotional tampon to help her deal with the pain of losing her boyfriend. And I'm a really good guy.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Has anyone forced a affair apart like I did? How long did the anger and resentment from the WS continue? Is this a lost cause and will she not return to IC because this???


----------



## aug

Your wife has been unfaithful for a very long time in your marriage.

How do you know for sure she wont get back together with the OM (or a new one) again sometime in the future? I suppose there's some sort of guarantee she wont if she becomes crippled, obese or chronically ill.


----------



## walkonmars

RaisedGarden said:


> I am so utterly confused now.


This is understandable. Your wife has turned the world you knew or thought you knew upside down




RaisedGarden said:


> . The only concern she brought up over and over was how disrespectful it was that I contacted him, and how horrible he must feel after being told this.


This speaks volumes. You were there and you wrote this yourself but did you LISTEN. Did you get the full meaning of this? 




RaisedGarden;1215310. said:


> When I called her out on caring more about the feelings of her boyfriend over her husband she just shut down.


Shut down instead of "OMG, of course you're right." Nope - still pissed at you - you don't deserve an answer to a valid question. None at all. 



RaisedGarden;1215310. said:


> She also mentioned how she was ending the relationship that day, and I had beat her to the punch, so not to gloat over the ending of the relationship.


And you believe she was actually going to do this? This is why she was so distraught that the poor OM's feelings were hurt - I guess she was going to let him down in a gentler manner? I know you're confused but c'mon man. I can smell week-old fish reading this part. 

The last part of the statement ( Don't gloat...) was a way of minimizing you. What you did was unimportant. Friend, I'm not trying to yank your chain, I have no reason to. I don't know you or her. 

But unless she was caressing your face when she said this I, and any objective observer, can only take this as a contemptuous statement. 




RaisedGarden said:


> "Now that you got what you want. Now what?".


Again, unless she was running her fingers through your hair and caressing your face, I read this objectively as a challenge to you - not a plea for help or a real question. Not at all. 




RaisedGarden said:


> Do you think that things got so out of hand and I was so consumed in getting her back that I disregarded the obvious choice of leaving her? I am so utterly confused now.


Oh yeah. No doubt. It's your life, your wife, your choices, your future. In the end you're going to do what you're going to do. And she's going to do what she's going to do. I think we all know - even if you don't - what that will be. 

Take some time off for yourself. Your emotions are in too much turmoil to heal yourself much less help her now. Send her to IC. You continue your counseling - keep your legal papers in order. Keep a clear head.


----------



## RaisedGarden

> Oh yeah. No doubt. It's your life, your wife, your choices, your future. In the end you're going to do what you're going to do. And she's going to do what she's going to do. I think we all know - even if you don't - what that will be.
> 
> Take some time off for yourself. Your emotions are in too much turmoil to heal yourself much less help her now. Send her to IC. You continue your counseling - keep your legal papers in order. Keep a clear head.


Yeah I get it. I knew she was being defensive and also being very much in face about "Look at what you've done, so what now smart boy?" I think she needs some time to simmer in her own juices here, but I really do think she is actually now moving towards Divorce. It's just a waiting game at this point. Also, does she get any benefit by filing for divorce first instead of me?


----------



## carmen ohio

RaisedGarden said:


> I will be the first to admit that I have a savior complex. Now that she is at her lowest I don't know how I could leave her, but in the same token after all the BS she has put me through I don't know how I could stay with her. It's one thing to say I'm out when the other person is still hurting you so much, *but it's an entirely different animal when the person is hurting so much them self*. I'm beyond conflicted at this point.


Boy, are you an easy touch. She's "hurting" like a bank robber hurts when he gets caught or a used car dealer hurts when he has to take back a lemon.

Only when your W starts hurting over the pain she's inflicted on YOU should you have any sympathy for her.


----------



## alte Dame

You're confused about the next steps because your wife calls all the shots & without her telling you explicitly what will happen next, you're lost.

Your wife is a toxic controlling personality & bully, but you enable her with your willingness to follow wherever she decides to lead. 

She hasn't been the slightest bit remorseful about her atrocious behavior; in fact, she's flaunted things in your face, essentially daring you to stand up to her.

So now you're waiting for instructions from her on what to do next. You can continue to have the sort of warped relationship you have had until now or you can decide to do the hard work of declaring some peace for yourself.

It's really up to you, whether you know it or not. She doesn't have to give you permission to lead your own life.


----------



## Thor

Talk to a lawyer. Get accurate info for your location. Protect your rights and futuure because you know your wife is angry and contemptuous of you. Dadsdivorce.com is a good resource.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

Your wife... your... WIFE... hates you because you ended an affair. She is YOUR wife. First of all, the affair was wrong. Now she's mad at you because you forced her to stop doing something wrong.

Go see a lawyer, tell him about your situation, ask about her divorcing before you do. Get facts from the lawyer.

It is at this moment you are seeing whom it is you really married. Do you really want to be married to this? First of all, get help for the savior complex, second of all, get out of this and find someone who loves and appreciates you. She is out there.


----------



## Acabado

RaisedGarden said:


> Ok Everyone here's the update. Sorry haven't been around since I have been dealing with a whole lot that last couple of days. So, as I said in an earlier post I got in contact with the last OM and let him know that my WW was sick and needed help. He promptly sent that email back to my wife with a "I'm out".


So OM2? dumped her, sure she's mad as hell. They always are. What happend to OM1 (The one she toke with the faked name as early on as 2004)! Didn't you forward both each other emails already?


What now?

Tell her she has serious issues she need to adress regardles your future. Tell her no matter how strong is the impulse to help her fix her sh1t it's obvious you can't, you are not equiped for it. Tell her to come clean, at least to someone who can help her. Tell her to write down a cheating timeline, to get calendars since you met (or even earlier) and disclose every transgression of the relationships and past cheating behavior. Tell her it's obvious there are tons of hiddden scheletons stinking somewhere ans she needs to see the big picture, her patterns.
Tell her to go to that MC individualy (or another IC) and disclose her secret live. Tell her it was unavoidable some day her two? worlds would collide and it's what's happening now which is the perfect oportunity to get her head straight (including her abusive ways).

If you are not ready to dump her for good at the very least you protect yourself and watch from afar.
Honestly I think your wife's issues are not fixable at all even if she suddenly claims to work this out. She's fundmentally, structurally damaged.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Acabado said:


> So OM2? dumped her, sure she's mad as hell. They always are. What happend to OM1 (The one she toke with the faked name as early on as 2004)! Didn't you forward both each other emails already?
> 
> 
> What now?
> 
> Tell her she has serious issues she need to adress regardles your future. Tell her no matter how strong is the impulse to help her fix her sh1t it's obvious you can't, you are not equiped for it. Tell her to come clean, at least to someone who can help her. Tell her to write down a cheating timeline, to get calendars since you met (or even earlier) and disclose every transgression of the relationships and past cheating behavior. Tell her it's obvious there are tons of hiddden scheletons stinking somewhere ans she needs to see the big picture, her patterns.
> Tell her to go to that MC individualy (or another IC) and disclose her secret live. Tell her it was unavoidable some day her two? worlds would collide and it's what's happening now which is the perfect oportunity to get her head straight (including her abusive ways).
> 
> If you are not ready to dump her for good at the very least you protect yourself and watch from afar.
> Honestly I think your wife's issues are not fixable at all even if she suddenly claims to work this out. She's fundmentally, structurally damaged.


I have already had that talk with her yesterday. Didn't she think that all the lying was going to catch up to her? She implicitly agreed that it was only a matter of time before of the unraveling. She then started making snide comments and belittling the fact. Stated that "Everything she did was wrong and everything I do is 110% right" Kept interjecting with peanut gallery comments. It was almost like I was a comedian on stage with a drunk angry heckler in the crowd. I am distancing myself every day from her. I have already told her that if she doesn't begin to show signs of improvement I was out. Since I have always been a soft touch with her I guess she doesn't believe me, and she still can't believe I had the balls to tell her family and friends about the affair. She was still able to keep controlling the situation after that so she began to settle into her pattern with OM again. This time I went and emailed the OM's and now both want nothing to do with a woman who is insane enough to not only cheat on her husband, but to cheat on the OM as well. Like they say never stick your Djck in crazy.


----------



## aug

RaisedGarden said:


> ... This time I went and emailed the OM's and now both want nothing to do with a woman who is insane enough to not only cheat on her husband, but to cheat on the OM as well. *Like they say never stick your Djck in crazy.*



and yet here you are still wanting to?


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## RaisedGarden

aug said:


> and yet here you are still wanting to?


Well just found out that not even 24 hours after all this has happened she is already fishing for him to contact her on email. I can't believe she keeps leaving her account up on the computer. I really do think she wants to be caught. He hasn't bit yet so I think I ended it between the two of them, but if she can't even cool her jets for 24 hours without this guy, it's over. So long and good bye. How sick does someone have to be that in the midst of the maelstrom of the last 2 days, her first thought was to try to keep the relationship with the OM alive. Divorce here I come. 35 and divorced, who thought?


----------



## happyman64

RaisedGarden said:


> Well just found out that not even 24 hours after all this has happened she is already fishing for him to contact her on email. I can't believe she keeps leaving her account up on the computer. I really do think she wants to be caught. He hasn't bit yet so I think I ended it between the two of them, but if she can't even cool her jets for 24 hours without this guy, it's over. So long and good bye. How sick does someone have to be that in the midst of the maelstrom of the last 2 days, her first thought was to try to keep the relationship with the OM alive. Divorce here I come. 35 and divorced, who thought?


Uh Hello!

35 and Divorced is better than 55 and Divorced.

So stay dark, go 180 and kiss her ass goodbye.

Show her consequences.

Because right now she is playing games with you.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Uh Hello!
> 
> 35 and Divorced is better than 55 and Divorced.
> 
> So stay dark, go 180 and kiss her ass goodbye.
> 
> Show her consequences.
> 
> Because right now she is playing games with you.


Expose her at work already geez man! You will feel so much better by empowering yourself and taking charge of your future starting today.


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## sandc

There WILL come a point when she realizes she has lost control of you. The manipulation will begin at that point. You will again see the woman you married because she will be playing that part. That's all it is, a role. She will be trying to keep you. I mean, who else will continue to take care of stuff at home while she goes and does whomever? She will say whatever she needs to, and do whatever she needs to keep you. It won't be real, it will be an act.

Don't fall for it.


----------



## Acabado

The friends, expose her to her friends, the other OM, the fishing. You never told what are the plans for the get away they set up.
She doesn't give a sh1t about you might think of her anymore, she lose respect for you ages ago. Her reputation among her friends, those who still respect her might shake her world a bit.

She seems too far gone. I suspect if main OM doesn't fall after her fishing attepts she'll lash out at him like a mad woman she's now. She might even make a public scene at work. She's very capable as you know.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Acabado said:


> The friends, expose her to her friends, the other OM, the fishing. You never told what are the plans for the get away they set up.
> She doesn't give a sh1t about you might think of her anymore, she lose respect for you ages ago. Her reputation among her friends, those who still respect her might shake her world a bit.
> 
> She seems too far gone. I suspect if main OM doesn't fall after her fishing attepts she'll lash out at him like a mad woman she's now. She might even make a public scene at work. She's very capable as you know.


She won't cause a scene at work. She is very much tied to appearances. Everything has to be the best. Everything in her world has to be perfect and ordered. She would never have a scene at work because of that. That is why she never really ever loved me, I was never "enough" for her. MC says she has a fractured self, and her identity only comes from those around her. She needs constant praise and adulation from those around her. That is why she took on so many men in her life. Now it is showing for the facade it has always been and she is lashing out at me, the person who broke the wall in front of the mirror. Sucks doesn't it.


----------



## PHTlump

RaisedGarden said:


> MC says she has a fractured self, and her identity only comes from those around her. She needs constant praise and adulation from those around her. That is why she took on so many men in her life.


It's tragic for you, but it will also be tragic for her. An attractive 35 year-old woman can get some attention from men. A 50 year-old woman will get far less attention. A 65 year-old woman will get very little attention. That's one of the advantages to a woman marrying a good man when she's at the height of her beauty and remaining faithful to him. He'll give her plenty of attention in her old age when she would have great difficulty attracting it outside of the marriage.

Ah well. Good luck with your divorce.

And don't expose her at work until your lawyer has given you the OK. You may look petty to the judge and get a less favorable split of the assets if you cause her income to disappear.


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## Madman1

So many guys have a flash of reality and say "IM OUT OF HERE".
but the stupidity creeps back in, "OH I REALLY LOVE HER"
I'll believe it when I see it.

I hope reality wins out!


----------



## Chaparral

* Like they say never stick your Djck in crazy. *


So why are you still hanging with a serial cheater that has notjing but contempt for you? 

You haven't read the book Married Man Sex Life have you? It will give you the rundown why she is doing what she is doing.


----------



## warlock07

RaisedGarden said:


> Well just found out that not even 24 hours after all this has happened she is already fishing for him to contact her on email. I can't believe she keeps leaving her account up on the computer. I really do think she wants to be caught. He hasn't bit yet so I think I ended it between the two of them, but if she can't even cool her jets for 24 hours without this guy, it's over. So long and good bye. How sick does someone have to be that in the midst of the maelstrom of the last 2 days, her first thought was to try to keep the relationship with the OM alive. Divorce here I come. 35 and divorced, who thought?


You are the only one that is surprised ... Weren't you able to see the obvious ? Your wife is not in the fog. She is a serial cheater.


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## RaisedGarden

warlock07 said:


> You are the only one that is surprised ... Weren't you able to see the obvious ? Your wife is not in the fog. She is a serial cheater.


Yeah she is a serial cheater and manipulator. She has mentioned divorce 2 times in as many days, and when I am in complete agreement of her thoughts on the subject, she backs off and changes the subject. I think she is testing the waters to see how far I am willing to go. What she doesn't know is that I'm in the process of cashing in my 401k to get the money to pay for the lawyer. She is not the woman I married in my mind. I married someone so vile that I can not wrap my head around how wrong I was in choosing this woman to be my wife. Then again hindsight is 20/20 so live and learn.

ps. She did come on the weekend getaway. She was fake nice to the friends as if nothing is going on between the two of us. To me she was cold as ice. I attempted to talk to her during my long drive to the place we were going, and on the way back. As soon as I began to talk she would then turn her head and stare out the window. She has become as petulant as a 3 year old. Well I had a good time despite her BS. I think that will be the last time friends ever see me and my WW in the same place.


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## alte Dame

RaisedGarden said:


> She is not the woman I married in my mind. I married someone so vile that I can not wrap my head around how wrong I was in choosing this woman to be my wife.


You shouldn't beat yourself up too much about this.

The way you describe your wife gives the impression of a master manipulator and actress who does what she does so that she can control things to her advantage. For a while, it was to her advantage to have you, so you saw her charming self.

Once she decided that you weren't really what she wanted, she went out to find other entertainment. She can't quite give up that last bit of power over you, though. She may not want the marriage anymore, but if anyone is going to decide when it's over, it will be her. No backtalk from you.


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## RaisedGarden

alte Dame said:


> You shouldn't beat yourself up too much about this.
> 
> The way you describe your wife gives the impression of a master manipulator and actress who does what she does so that she can control things to her advantage. For a while, it was to her advantage to have you, so you saw her charming self.
> 
> Once she decided that you weren't really what she wanted, she went out to find other entertainment. She can't quite give up that last bit of power over you, though. She may not want the marriage anymore, but if anyone is going to decide when it's over, it will be her. No backtalk from you.


Yeah, I know I shouldn't come too hard about this, but if I can be this wrong about this person, what hell else have my eyes been closed over? I am beginning to settle in to the idea that I will be alone for awhile why the divorce proceeds. I am also realizing that it is most likely for the best that I am getting the divorce. What truly scares me is the dating scene, and trying to look for someone after becoming "damaged goods". I know that 50% of marriages end in divorce, but I never counted on myself being a part of that statistic. So I have been religious about the gym, and have been excited about taking care of myself. Complacency got me into this in the first place, I will never let it happen to me again.


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## alte Dame

Again, people who are decent, honest, and caring expect that others will be the same. If you are a chump, then a lot of the world is in exactly the same boat.

I predict that you will get out into the wider world & quickly discover how many nice, stable, decent women there are for you to get to know.


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## Acabado

You are not damaged goods, she is. You got a lemon, that's all, she just hid it very well because it's how she is. She always was this way and she become very skilled at it with time. It says nothing about you.

Albeit your heart is going to take it's time to catch your head don't hesitate your decisions.

Hard 180 meanwhile.

I wished you could expose her at the getaway, in front of her friends, the whole secret life. To force her to show her true colors rigth there.


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## Madman1

You are choosing a much happier future, I'm glad for you.
She would suck your soul dry.

Dating,meh! just smile and talk to a woman, if she is into you after a couple times, aks for her number, talk more by text, phone whatever and ask her in person to join you somewhere, dont call it a date , it will work out.

Talk to as many women as you can it will be good for you.

You will see , your eyes are open now.

We have all been fooled by someone who hides who they are, they play on our trust. you will choose better next time, believe in yourself!


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## Shaggy

Think about this - not only are you going to be meeting attractive and great new women once you cast of this cheating harpy, but these new woman are going to want to know how you dealt with the harpy.

So deal swiftly and decisively. Do it the way you want to the tell the story later. You don't want to tell a future date the 3 hours version of back and forth. You want the one you need now as well - decision - action - follow through.


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## RaisedGarden

So I moved all my stuff out of the main bedroom and have taken over the guest room and bathroom. Not as comfy as my old bed but it will suffice till the divorce. WW very angry at me. Asked "What brought this on". My answer was have you been asleep for the last three months. She has broken the NC in less than 72 hours. After the silence and petty questions she went to bed. All I heard was her sobbing and crying a better part of the night. Is this normal or is she trying to play on my emotions here?


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## bandit.45

She's crying because you took away her cake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WyshIknew

bandit.45 said:


> She's crying because you took away her cake.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

She's crying because pvssywhipped, doormat RG has shown his nads.
She no doubt now realises that she is going to have to face real consequences for her behaviour from a man and that man will do whatever is necessary to bring closure on this sorry state of affairs the way *he* sees fit.

Her pathetic little cake eating double life is starting to crash down around her.

Go after her, go after the OM let people know you are prepared to protect what you feel are your rights.


----------



## Numbersixxx

RaisedGarden said:


> So I moved all my stuff out of the main bedroom and have taken over the guest room and bathroom. Not as comfy as my old bed but it will suffice till the divorce. WW very angry at me. Asked "What brought this on". My answer was have you been asleep for the last three months. She has broken the NC in less than 72 hours. After the silence and petty questions she went to bed. All I heard was her sobbing and crying a better part of the night. Is this normal or is she trying to play on my emotions here?


Maybe she thinks that if she puts enough tears, you will put on your knight's armour and come to her rescue?


----------



## happyman64

RaisedGarden said:


> So I moved all my stuff out of the main bedroom and have taken over the guest room and bathroom. Not as comfy as my old bed but it will suffice till the divorce. WW very angry at me. Asked "What brought this on". My answer was have you been asleep for the last three months. She has broken the NC in less than 72 hours. After the silence and petty questions she went to bed. All I heard was her sobbing and crying a better part of the night. Is this normal or is she trying to play on my emotions here?


She is crying because she is an addict!

Does an addict like doing drugs? No. But they want the high.

So does your wife.

She is crying because she knows all the consequences for her actions are on her.........


----------



## Shaggy

She upset because her control of the situation is falling apart. 

She thought she had made it through and found how to play and not get burned anymore.

Now she's learning she failed and it's out of her hands now.


----------



## keko

How sad. She no longer has a doormat to step on.

OP, keep your stand and don't cave in to the crocodile tears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RaisedGarden

Yeah, she was all teary the first day of me removing myself from her equation. Last night we have gotten to anger. Any conversation with her is either short and cursory, or she makes faces and is condescending when we talk. I can also tell that she is not sleeping at all. I caught her once standing at my door in the middle of the night. What the hell is she doing? Has she gone completely nuts at this point?


----------



## tom67

RaisedGarden said:


> Yeah, she was all teary the first day of me removing myself from her equation. Last night we have gotten to anger. Any conversation with her is either short and cursory, or she makes faces and is condescending when we talk. I can also tell that she is not sleeping at all. I caught her once standing at my door in the middle of the night. What the hell is she doing? Has she gone completely nuts at this point?


I would watch your back if I were you she is really losing it.


----------



## sandc

RaisedGarden said:


> Yeah, she was all teary the first day of me removing myself from her equation. Last night we have gotten to anger. Any conversation with her is either short and cursory, or she makes faces and is condescending when we talk. I can also tell that she is not sleeping at all. I caught her once standing at my door in the middle of the night. What the hell is she doing? Has she gone completely nuts at this point?


She was either getting the courage up to come in and talk to you or she was listening to see if you were talking to anyone.


----------



## aug

tom67 said:


> I would watch your back if I were you she is really losing it.


Or, put a lock on your door?


----------



## Shamwow

You need to remove yourself from this meltdown of hers, stat. It's hard to hear the one you love(d) sobbing and going through this kind of stress. The thing is, she deserves it in full and then some. Just remember how concerned she was for your feelings while she was banging other men FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS. 

Best thing to do is go dark entirely and remove yourself from having to see her break down. Hard, but it'll be easier for you in the long run. I hit a hotel for a week or so while I found an apartment, didn't communicate w xw at all while she imploded. Use that time to focus on yourself and what your plans are going forward, without her. She's got problems, unfortunately for her they're in direct relation to her treatment of you, so you have to try NOT to fix them for her. Because you can't. Period. Start letting her go and do it hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Shaggy said:


> Think about this - not only are you going to be meeting attractive and great new women once you cast of this cheating harpy, but these new woman are going to want to know how you dealt with the harpy.
> 
> So deal swiftly and decisively. Do it the way you want to the tell the story later. You don't want to tell a future date the 3 hours version of back and forth. You want the one you need now as well - decision - action - follow through.


This. Absolutely. 

Your future dealings with women may hinge heavily on how you deal with this. Be John Wayne. Show yourself and others that you will not tolerate being treated this way.

Your stbxw had her chance, many actually, and she has failed. It's on her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

RaisedGarden said:


> I can also tell that she is not sleeping at all. I caught her once standing at my door in the middle of the night. What the hell is she doing?


She'S is looking at you and imagining how handsom you are and the vision of roses peddles surrounding your body as the low glow of centented candle fill the room.....Naaaaaaaaaa...she's looking at you imagining you laying in a coffin with lillies surrounding the casket and a shovel in her hand.

GOT OUT NOW!!!!!!!!


----------



## RaisedGarden

the guy said:


> She'S is looking at you and imagining how handsom you are and the vision of roses peddles surrounding your body as the low glow of centented candle fill the room.....Naaaaaaaaaa...she's looking at you imagining you laying in a coffin with lillies surrounding the casket and a shovel in her hand.
> 
> GOT OUT NOW!!!!!!!!


Homicidal is not how I would describe my WW. I think she is as others have said, bumping up against the glorious world she has built up in her mind and the reality of the situation. The standing thing outside the door was really really weird. Then again I never thought that the woman I married could have multiple relationships going on at the same time as me. One of which under a pseudonym. So yes there is the slight chance that this story could end up as one of the segments on the ID channel where the seemingly perfect wife stabbed her husband 1000 times and fed him to camels at the zoo, or something like that. Kind of like "Who the Bleep Did I Marry". I can just hear the voice over with the deep foreboding music in the background. "She was a....."


----------



## the guy

LOL...In all seriousness, I'd but an entry lock on the bedroom door


----------



## bandit.45

A pod person will often just stand there, still as stone, waiting for commands from the mothership.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kasler

everyone thinks they know their stbxs, which I find puzzling considering you were cheating on. 

Its nothing new really, so many husbands think their wives are completely logical and honorable. 

False DV complaints ensue. 


I thought I knew my ex fiancee, a b!tch but I thought I knew her. 

Stole about everything from my house but the kitchen sink.

Just goes to show ya.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Ok everyone, 
Things just got way weird. So I have been on a strong 180. Things have been tense, but I was settling in my stride with removing myself from the WW. Long story short my wife approaches me and we start to talk about her individual therapy session she has just had. She goes into some detail about what she talked about and she finally started to mention some of the "things that I lack that MADE her cheat on me". I kind of redirected forcefully and let her know that nothing that I did or didn't do deserved her cheating on me with multiple guys and the constant lying she was doing. I told her that I am on the plank ready to jump off the marriage and nothing she said I would believe. Only actions will tell the truth.

So a very tearful and emotional WW begins to tell me that she has a severely messed up past that I am not privy too. So I start to put 2 & 2 together and tell her some things that I have strongly suspected over the course of our relationship. So my WW breaks down and tells me she was being sexually abused from about 5 till her early teens by an older close family member. I have dated sexual abuse survivors in the past(they flock to me) and she had the same M.O. as the other girls. The lack of intimacy, the mechanical sex, the lack of sex for long periods of time punctuated by hyper sexuality.... She really does follow the symptoms to a tee. The realist in me though kicked in and I thought is she being manipulative enough with me to make up this story to get on my good graces. However, the facts seem to add up that this horrible thing has happened to her in the past that is effecting our future.

So guys I'm in a really tough spot here. I have a WW who has just shared something that only her and the abuser have known up until now. She has yet to share this with her therapist and won't do so for quite some time. The gentleman who did this to her is now deceased, but in hind sight that is the same time that our marriage really hit the skids and she began the latest of her EA/PA's. So now I have a weeping WW who obviously needs the emotional support of a husband. I have so built a wall around myself to protect me from her actions, I have no clue what to do around her, or how to be there for her. I don't even know if I want to share this new issue with my therapist. Does anyone out there have a similar experience or a gem of knowledge to help me either try to reconnect or dump my very exposed WW? Also, now that I know that she is even beyond damaged goods of my worst nightmares, if I end up in R, will this past just keep popping up as EA/PA's in the future?

ps happy thanksgiving


----------



## aug

She tells her abuse to the counselor now -- make sure the counselor specialize or is knowledgeable in that area.

I think you should stay on course for now. There are abused people who dont cheat.


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## Shaggy

If true then the most important thing she needs right now is a therapist with experience treating childhood sex abuse survivors.

If the doesn't get treatment then the cycle will just continue and continue.

You have a very small window right now where she is broken down enough that she's motivated to try and do something. If you put off going with her and you together in the same room talk to the therapist about it, she will clam up and deny.

This is important: You need to both be in the room to tell the therapist. Her to tell it, and you to make sure she does tell it.

Help get her treatment.

BUT know this - it's still OK and reasonable to divorce her. 

While she may have suffered childhool abuse she is also still an adult who is responsible for their choices and actions. She chose to cheat. She chose to lie. 

Divorcing her because she chose to betray you over and over is as good a decision as ever.


----------



## RaisedGarden

aug said:


> She tells her abuse to the counselor now -- make sure the counselor specialize or is knowledgeable in that area.
> 
> I think you should stay on course for now. There are abused people who dont cheat.


Her therapist is part of a large C/B group that should have someone in house that should be able to deal with this correctly. If not my feeling is they will refer her to someone who is. Also she is only on session #2 and just starting to feel out the dynamic, so I think she is holding off to further along in the process. Also, it didn't occur to bring up this past until I forced it out into the open. Now she can't bury anymore and she will need to talk to the therapist about it. What are your thoughts on me sharing with my therapist?? Wait till she does??


----------



## RaisedGarden

Shaggy said:


> If true then the most important thing she needs right now is a therapist with experience treating childhood sex abuse survivors.
> 
> If the doesn't get treatment then the cycle will just continue and continue.
> 
> You have a very small window right now where she is broken down enough that she's motivated to try and do something. If you put off going with her and you together in the same room talk to the therapist about it, she will clam up and deny.
> 
> This is important: You need to both be in the room to tell the therapist. Her to tell it, and you to make sure she does tell it.
> 
> Help get her treatment.
> 
> BUT know this - it's still OK and reasonable to divorce her.
> 
> While she may have suffered childhool abuse she is also still an adult who is responsible for their choices and actions. She chose to cheat. She chose to lie.
> 
> Divorcing her because she chose to betray you over and over is as good a decision as ever.


1. We have stopped Joint MC for awhile(cost and time of carrying that and Individual therapy at the same time) So she has to go at it alone for her sessions with that revelation.

2. It feels so heartless to kick someone when they are already down. I'm a bleeding heart so I liken it in my mind like leaving someone who has cancer. 

I think she has bought herself some more time. The question is how much more time should I wait to see the signs of R?


----------



## walkonmars

Ploy #1


> ..she finally started to mention some of the "things that I lack that MADE her cheat on me".


not too successful. Let's try ploy #2


> WW begins to tell me that she has a severely messed up past that I am not privy too.


It's probably true. But how does this mitigate cheating, disrespecting you and blaming you? 

And please don't disrespect cancer patients. If you want to apply analogy it's more like an AIDS carrier knowing spreading the virus to others. It doesn't make sense.


----------



## sandc

Dude,
I think you have now just officially gone outside of TAM's area of expertise. This is one for the professionals. We can't advise you on how to help your wife. Only a professional is going to be able to help you wife.

So question: Are you a professional?

I know you want to help her but the bottom line is you CANNOT help her. This will take years, YEARS to fix.

So, next question with a lot of qualification: Given what she has done to you for years, given that she has not been truthful (lies of omission) about her past, given that this has been a recurring pattern for her the whole time you've known her, given the stuff you know that you haven't even told us.... Do you want to dedicate the rest of your life to being there and checking up on her to make sure the "fix" is taking hold, that she is in fact being truthful, that she has put her demons to bed and is now focusing on a healthy life. That's a tall order. You have to decide how much love you have left for her and judge how much love she has for you. You can do that by asking her what she's willing to do to show you that love? If she does anything short of any damn thing you ask, then the love for you is just not there. 

What contributed to her cheating really doesn't matter. What matters is that you married a broken woman. A woman who didn't give you the courtesy of telling you everything about here. I guess I believe in full disclosure. That's what the dating and courtship process is all about, it's discovery. I told my wife things about me, my wife told me things about her (which included abuse) before we even married. Your wife didn't do you that courtesy. So you didn't get who you thought you were getting. You have to decide now if she is what you truly want.


----------



## Acabado

RaisedGarden said:


> I think she has bought herself some more time. The question is how much more time should I wait to see the signs of R?


Actually, in my book, as long as the right steps are followed and you are "protected" you have all the time in the world to decide if your heart and psyche can.

You know the rules, they are always the same:
NC letter sent
Complete transparence, NC verified
Full confession
---- whatever you need (post nup?)

She clearly fits the sexsual abused victim treats.
Think about it, it's very possible she won't be able to have a real, intimate relationships, she might never enjoy "clean" sex... 
So if she even stop cheating you might be miserable in this marriage. Many SAb mare messed up for life.


----------



## alte Dame

I think this could be the truth or could be another attempt to regain control. You will unfortunately never know.

Women who have been abused as children often have OCD behaviors, which essentially allow them to feel like they're in command of at least some small parts of their lives. The point is always the assertion of control because they were powerless when they were younger and subject to the abuse.

Your W certainly needs treatment no matter what the truth is, so you can support that at least.

I think, though, that she's a wrecking crew for you & in the final analysis you have to live your life for yourself and whatever children you are responsible for. I would keep up the 180, but be generally supportive of her therapy.


----------



## Shaggy

RaisedGarden said:


> 1. We have stopped Joint MC for awhile(cost and time of carrying that and Individual therapy at the same time) So she has to go at it alone for her sessions with that revelation.
> 
> 2. It feels so heartless to kick someone when they are already down. I'm a bleeding heart so I liken it in my mind like leaving someone who has cancer.
> 
> I think she has bought herself some more time. The question is how much more time should I wait to see the signs of R?


You can still go with her the IC and be in the room when she tells her. Then you leave.


----------



## Acabado

Also she was surely very promiscuous as a teen. That's the way many SAb believes themselves at chargue. Then they meet a "safe" partner only to have a second life recreating the abuse/fighting the abuser forever.


----------



## BjornFree

Acabado said:


> Also she was surely very promiscuous as a teen. That's the way many SAb believes themselves at chargue. Then they meet a "safe" partner only to have a second life recreating the abuse/fighting the abuser forever.


Agreed and its a recurring pattern for the "safe" guy too. Notice he said, they flock to him.


----------



## Thor

RaisedGarden said:


> So now I have a weeping WW who obviously needs the emotional support of a husband. I have so built a wall around myself to protect me from her actions, I have no clue what to do around her, or how to be there for her. I don't even know if I want to share this new issue with my therapist. *Does anyone out there have a similar experience* or a gem of knowledge to help me either try to reconnect or dump my very exposed WW? Also, now that I know that *she is even beyond damaged goods* of my worst nightmares, if I end up in R, will this past just keep popping up as EA/PA's in the future?
> 
> ps happy thanksgiving


Please do not use nice words to describe the scum who abused her. I suspect your anger has not yet settled in on this subject. Mine has simmered for the past 16 months since finding out my wife of (then) 29 years experienced abuse as a grade schooler.

Yes, obviously I have a similar experience to you.

Sorry but I can't keep track of every person's details to know if we covered the possibility of abuse before in your thread.

Also, I am sorry to see you consider her _damaged goods_. She is deeply harmed but something about that term is derisive. Certainly you should never use that term out loud or anyplace your wife might come across it, as it will be very hurtful to her.

Your wife's greatest fear is that _it is true_. What is true? Her carefully suppressed feelings she is guilty, shameful, unworthy. Whatever happens with your marriage, basic humanity should lead you to avoid inflicting undeserved harm.

I have just read your post and so haven't really thought deeply yet about it. I am in a similar situation in that my wife revealed her abuse when the chips were really down, and I was confronting her about ending our marriage. The one difference is that I had not yet confronted her about suspecting an affair. It has been a roller coaster of conflicting loyalties, to her and to me. I have understood the deep dishonesty represented by her not informing me earlier. _I consider it an infidelity_. But the nature of the psychological damage makes it impossible for some women to ever tell anybody.

The bottom line is our wives have a responsibility to us to be emotionally healthy and present in the marriage. Now that this deep problem is identified, she has the responsibility to face it. If she fails to, it is a flaw which is fatal to your marriage (not considering any other factors such as her affairs).

To your specific concerns:

1) I think you reveal this to your therapist asap. This is a huge issue to your marriage and will be a big part of your worries and considerations. There is no obligation for you to keep her abuse secret from your docs, medical and psychological. She kept it secret from you for many years and it harmed you. You should not keep it secret from your shrink now!

2) You cannot and should not require her to tell her therapist. However, her CSA is _central_ to her deep dysfunctions. I think at this point you can make it a boundary that she tell, and she actively pursue recovery, or you walk.

3) However, I think ultimately R is not going to be successful. The question is how much time to gift to her. And yes it is a gift of some time out of your life. Especially after the affairs! This is up to your own sense of honor. I went in with a 1 yr window but did not insist on therapy as a condition. I think 6 months is a better time frame _for you_. For her she is likely looking at years of therapy.

4) Secrecy about abuse is destructive to the survivor and then by extension to the downstream victims such as you. I don't think you are obligated to keep her abuse secret. If it makes sense to tell someone you should, but keep in mind her sensitivities, e.g. don't just tell all the neighbors.

5) You will likely cycle between different strong feelings. It has slightly moderated for me by now. One one hand there is deep sadness for her suffering which was not of her doing. On the other hand there is the anger that she knowingly let me suffer for all those years without seeking therapy or informing me what was really going on. There is the desire she stops suffering.

6) There is a significant possibility that you will not be able to nudge her to successful recovery. You might be an enabler to her avoiding the hard work of recovery _simply because you care_. And she may have a view of you which leads her to avoid recovery as long as she is with you.

7) Her affairs are part of her abuse. It does not excuse her at all! Yes you can understand her better now that you know this fact of her abuse. It does mean it was not your failings which precipitated the affairs. You aren't too small, repulsive, beta, or anything. In fact you were too decent. She saw you as safe, and that was part of selecting you.


----------



## Chaparral

It doesn't excuse her cheating and the abuse she has dished out to you. Definitely tell your counselor. Hopefully, he will give you insight into both your problems.

The exoperience here by the way is that serial cheaters can not be fixed. IDK if the reasons for the serial cheating have anything to do with that.

Is she trying to get you to stay? Is she offering up any changes she will make? Have you copied the wayward spouse instructions?


----------



## Madman1

chapparal said:


> It doesn't excuse her cheating and the abuse she has dished out to you. Definitely tell your counselor. Hopefully, he will give you insight into both your problems.
> 
> The exoperience here by the way is that serial cheaters can not be fixed. IDK if the reasons for the serial cheating have anything to do with that.
> 
> Is she trying to get you to stay? Is she offering up any changes she will make? Have you copied the wayward spouse instructions?


This :iagree:

She has not told you before, you tell her you are jumping ship and then she tells you. Do you really need to ask "Is she trying to get you to stay"?

She is trying to protect her world. That is self interest (self interest is ok, selfishness is not)

You need to protect your world!

All you owe her now is some support if she truly wants to change.

You can divorce her and still be supportive. (I would)

She should understand this, especialy after what she has done.

She has shown that she cannot honor a marriage, she should accept this as part of her recovery.

If she was forthcomming before then maybe, but she has not seen you as part of her solution up to this point, you cannot take a chance.

If she recovers in the future you can talk about it.

I dont believe you are morally obligated to stay or go, its your choice.


----------



## ilou

How are your previous gf's doing presently (since they TOO were abused)? Why did it not last? For the same reason as your wife?


----------



## warlock07

Her sexual abuse helps you understand why she did some of the things but that won't undo the things she did.. 

You can forgive her and support her but still move on with your life away from her. You just don't treat the people you love like your wife did.. She just is good at manipulating you..

A sob story is to rein you back in..The timing of this is not a coincidence..


----------



## RaisedGarden

ilou said:


> How are your previous gf's doing presently (since they TOO were abused)? Why did it not last? For the same reason as your wife?


The relationships with all the survivors ended in the other party cheating. Actually most of my relationships ended in the other person cheating. I have a habit of finding people who are down on themselves and I end up building them back up. Then eventually they don't need me anymore and they find something else. I know I hear it from anyone, but I could be put in a room with 100 girls and I will strike up a conversation with the one who has the most screwed up past, or need for a self esteem boost. A therapist could spend years trying to pick that apart about me. I have been told I have a savior complex, but still even a blind squirrel gets a nut once and awhile. I guess a normal woman is out there for me, but they seem so very far away at this point.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

warlock07 said:


> Her sexual abuse helps you understand why she did some of the things but that won't undo the things she did..
> 
> You can forgive her and support her but still move on with your life away from her. Y*ou just don't treat the people you love like your wife did.. She just is good at manipulating you..*
> 
> A sob story is to rein you back in..The timing of this is not a coincidence..


Only mad people hurt their partners unconsciously without knowing what they are doing. An abusive past docent make one mad, she did everything with a conscious mind knowing the consequences. So don't excuse her cheating and disrespecting you because she was abused in the past.
Victims of abuse and rape leads a normal life without cheating their spouse.
She is again trying to get back the control by her new story.

She need therapy, let she have it but you can move on with your life from this toxic women.


----------



## Shaggy

RaisedGarden said:


> The relationships with all the survivors ended in the other party cheating. Actually most of my relationships ended in the other person cheating. I have a habit of finding people who are down on themselves and I end up building them back up. Then eventually they don't need me anymore and they find something else. I know I hear it from anyone, but I could be put in a room with 100 girls and I will strike up a conversation with the one who has the most screwed up past, or need for a self esteem boost. A therapist could spend years trying to pick that apart about me. I have been told I have a savior complex, but still even a blind squirrel gets a nut once and awhile. I guess a normal woman is out there for me, but they seem so very far away at this point.


So stop putting time and energy into this type of woman. When you meet a girl, the minute you detect the drama, the poor-poor me stuff - DUMP HER.

The drama and poor-poor me is her fishing to see if you'll be willing to serve her and sacrifice yourself for her. That's not love, that using someone.

Stop accepting being used by women. You want a woman who is a partner and an equal to you. Not someone who needs you to fix them.

Like when shopping for cars - you don't buy the beater fixer upper. You walk past the broken ones and you instead go for the one's that are reliable and work.

You wouldn't buy a pair of pants that had a rip in them.


----------



## Thor

She did reveal to you out of a sense of self preservation. No doubt she was playing the sympathy card. For you it is a key piece of data but not a game changer.

Don't let her use the CSA to take the focus off of the affairs. The affairs affect you and your marriage, whereas the CSA is her issue to face.

Having mulled your situation over a bit more I am comfortable with a cooler approach than in my previous reply. For example, telling her you're sorry for what she suffered but it doesn't change the facts of the affairs which you cannot excuse or forget. If you want to move straight to D it feels ok to me. Though I took a softer approach not having concrete proof of an affair and I would still be comfortable with you holding off for a short while to help her transition into therapy.


----------



## alte Dame

I don't mean to sound cruel, but you really don't know that the abuse story is true. Your W could be manipulating you in a very pure way, i.e., fabricating this to keep you in her web.

Also, the issue of being attracted to damaged and/or needy women: I spent years as a magnet for needy people. I was lucky enough to have avoided that in marriage, but was literally surrounded by it in family and friends. At some point, I just got worn out from propping people up because, when all was said and done, I was always there for them, but they were NEVER there for me (it doesn't occur to people like this that the ones they rely on actually might like some support some times).

So, I just stopped helping these people. I just stopped. I surrounded myself with friends like myself - and much to my surprise, I found that they were happy to offer help and compassion to me & I gave it back to them.

So, you actually can change that about yourself. It's not carved in stone.


----------



## warlock07

alte Dame said:


> I don't mean to sound cruel, but you really don't know that the abuse story is true. Your W could be manipulating you in a very pure way, i.e., fabricating this to keep you in her web.
> 
> Also, the issue of being attracted to damaged and/or needy women: I spent years as a magnet for needy people. I was lucky enough to have avoided that in marriage, but was literally surrounded by it in family and friends. At some point, I just got worn out from propping people up because, when all was said and done, I was always there for them, but they were NEVER there for me (it doesn't occur to people like this that the ones they rely on actually might like some support some times).
> 
> So, I just stopped helping these people. I just stopped. I surrounded myself with friends like myself - and much to my surprise, I found that they were happy to offer help and compassion to me & I gave it back to them.
> 
> So, you actually can change that about yourself. It's not carved in stone.


And he has every right to move on even if the abuse story is true.. His savior mode activated as soon as she told him this story..He is being abused himself..


----------



## alte Dame

warlock07 said:


> And he has every right to move on even if the abuse story is true.. His savior mode activated as soon as she told him this story..He is being abused himself..


Yes, indeed. He has been abused for a long time. I agree.


----------



## Thor

alte Dame said:


> I don't mean to sound cruel, but you really don't know that the abuse story is true. Your W could be manipulating you in a very pure way, i.e., fabricating this to keep you in her web.


I had similar doubts about my wife's abuse. But the facts do seem to support it, and I think so too for RaisedGarden. Though anything is possible, and one should always take that into consideration.

EleGirl wrote earlier (in a different thread)



EleGirl said:


> It is important to find the cause. But the cause cannot be the focus


----------



## Decorum

Maybe some thoughts like these to your wife in your own words would be helpful.

To your wife,
I am truly sorry for the trauma and damage you experienced during those years of abuse.

And I encourage you to seek and find the best help and therapy you can in order to learn to deal with this in a more constructive way than you have been.

“Damaged people damage others”, and I have to admit that I have been deeply hurt by your behavior in our marriage and it will take some years for me to heal from it. I will seek out help for myself as well. 

And while I am sympathetic to your suffering I need to tell you that your history in no way excuses your behavior or your cheating in our marriage.

The trust is gone, the friendship is gone, and the marriage has been destroyed. I will seek divorce as a way to separate from a relationship that has been very toxic to me, and pursue my own recovery so that I, like you, can move on with my life.

I hope you will face your issues honestly and with courage, but understand that I cannot save you and you cannot support me.

Again you have my sympathy for the struggle that facing your issues will involve, and I hope I have your understanding and sympathy as I try to do the same.


My recomendation is, let that be the end of the discussion, if she brings it up again, tell her you have already addressed that and you have nothing further to say. If she gets pissed so be it! Walk away if necessary.


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## AlphaHalf

The abuse dosen't excuse or justify a darn thing for what she has done to you. She knows your a softy and will tell you whatever it takes to get you feeling sorry for her. Already your eating it up.Just about everyone has a fudged up childhood, it dosent give a person a pass to [email protected]!t on anyone's because of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RaisedGarden

Decorum said:


> Maybe some thoughts like these to your wife in your own words would be helpful.
> 
> To your wife,
> I am truly sorry for the trauma and damage you experienced during those years of abuse.
> 
> And I encourage you to seek and find the best help and therapy you can in order to learn to deal with this in a more constructive way than you have been.
> 
> “Damaged people damage others”, and I have to admit that I have been deeply hurt by your behavior in our marriage and it will take some years for me to heal from it. I will seek out help for myself as well.
> 
> And while I am sympathetic to your suffering I need to tell you that your history in no way excuses your behavior or your cheating in our marriage.
> 
> The trust is gone, the friendship is gone, and the marriage has been destroyed. I will seek divorce as a way to separate from a relationship that has been very toxic to me, and pursue my own recovery so that I, like you, can move on with my life.
> 
> I hope you will face your issues honestly and with courage, but understand that I cannot save you and you cannot support me.
> 
> Again you have my sympathy for the struggle that facing your issues will involve, and I hope I have your understanding and sympathy as I try to do the same.
> 
> 
> My recomendation is, let that be the end of the discussion, if she brings it up again, tell her you have already addressed that and you have nothing further to say. If she gets pissed so be it! Walk away if necessary.


So this turns out to be a hiccup in the 180. I feel sorry for her and so I get talked into going over the inlaws for thanksgiving. Sat there and ate turkey, and bam like a lightening bolt out of the blue her mother and father lay into her like a fox on a hen. "How dare you disrespect us by treating your husband this way", "What kind of child did I raise to go and do this". Had my wife in tears and we had to leave the house. On the way home she just sat there sobbing and rocking like a child. Now I'm really feeling sorry for her. I get home and try to console her, but she starts to yell at me "How could I do this do her? How could you tell my parents about this.....". I remove myself from the fray and hide in my small corner of the house. I take the computer and go to do some surfing. Ooops. She left the email up on the computer. There right in front of me is a recounting of what just happened to the OM, and at the end a "I miss you so much more than ever. I need a extra big hug when I see you at work xxxooo". So with that any remorse I thought she had. Any pity I had for her vanished in a instant. So hard 180 again and divorce attorneys are still on. God damned manipulators.


----------



## warlock07

cant really tell you how lucky you are!! Forward the email to her parents..


----------



## warlock07

And is the OM single? Expose him to his family and both of them at work. Go nuclear before she tries to manipulate you again.


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## Chaparral

RaisedGarden said:


> No I haven't exposed to her HR just yet. I really don't have the killer instinct and I really can't have her and the OM loose their jobs on my account. Also I have a meeting with the MC on Weds by my self. I want to run it by her before I go all scorched earth.


This is what all the crying and remorse and so called abuse was about. "Please don't ruin OM and my jobs"

"Because OM will hate me for it."


----------



## Decorum

By a loto ticket! Karma is smiling upon you


----------



## JCD

First off, go to a mirror and repeat after me.

*I AM NOT JESUS!*

Repeat that until you believe it. I'll wait. Now that you got that out of your system...

Keep the D rolling. I would expose her to HR, even if it hurts a little bit.

Why? They say that everyone fakes courage until they actually find it. You need to start to cultivate a harder edge to your personality and that is a good first step. The OM KNEW she was married. I would make sure that you include his multiple offers to drop her and his actual dropping her in the mail. He was scum, but he TRIED to do the right thing. Certainly his head was a lot more centered than yours was in dropping what was obviously dangerous and damaged goods. So give him a bit of a mulligan. It might save his career...while shattering hers since she seems to be the aggressor.

So most of the consequences should fall on her. It's PURELY for personal growth for yourself.

And remember: They nailed Jesus to a tree. They shot Ghandi. Muhammud, who was a bastard, died on top of a girl at a ripe old age.

Think very hard on that.

BTW...you are not Jesus.


----------



## happyman64

RG

Not only should you forward the email to your parents but you should show the email to your wife.

Then tell her she is the only one to blame and all the consequences are hers to own.

HM64


----------



## Decorum

Amen!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

RaisedGarden said:


> So this turns out to be a hiccup in the 180. I feel sorry for her and so I get talked into going over the inlaws for thanksgiving. Sat there and ate turkey, and bam like a lightening bolt out of the blue her mother and father lay into her like a fox on a hen. "How dare you disrespect us by treating your husband this way", "What kind of child did I raise to go and do this". Had my wife in tears and we had to leave the house. On the way home she just sat there sobbing and rocking like a child. Now I'm really feeling sorry for her. I get home and try to console her, but she starts to yell at me "How could I do this do her? How could you tell my parents about this.....". I remove myself from the fray and hide in my small corner of the house. I take the computer and go to do some surfing. Ooops. She left the email up on the computer. There right in front of me is a recounting of what just happened to the OM, and at the end a "I miss you so much more than ever. I need a extra big hug when I see you at work xxxooo". So with that any remorse I thought she had. Any pity I had for her vanished in a instant. So hard 180 again and divorce attorneys are still on. God damned manipulators.


She still doesn't get it. He got what he wanted, now he can't get far enough away. Until his naughty bits start to tingle again, if then.


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## bandit.45

Sorry you had to find out that way brother, but I'm glad you found out. She's a piece of work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Hey RG

Was that her work email or private email?

Did you forward that email to your attorney or their Human Resources dept.???

*It it time to manipulate the manipulators......*


----------



## alte Dame

There's literally nothing she does that you can trust. You really can't have a future with her if you want any kind of life for yourself. Please stick with the 180 and D.


----------



## Shaggy

It's good that you know that your wife is totally without remorse and has ZERO intention to stop or to get help.

You really need to deal with the work OM and destroy the affair. Her having work to go to for support and comfort and to continue the A is something you need to end for her.


----------



## JCD

Shaggy said:


> It's good that you know that your wife is totally without remorse and has ZERO intention to stop or to get help.
> 
> You really need to deal with the work OM and destroy the affair. Her having work to go to for support and comfort and to continue the A is something you need to end for her.


Honestly, if it wasn't so totally crystal clear for this guy, I'm betting he'd go soft on her again with a few more tears and a few faked stories about abuse.

Raised...you can't fix everyone (in fact, maybe you can't fix anyone)

Don't be the guy that broken women 'settle for for now'. Improve yourself and have a bit more pride and self respect.

Edited to add: You share the assets AND debts. Make sure that your attorney is fully aware of the length of your relationship, and the amount of debt FOR HER that you accrued so she gets to own how much debt is hers.


----------



## Madman1

Ah ha ha, remorseless skank really threw away her trump card there.

Whats next? 
She was repeatedly abducted by UFO's and raped by their reptilian occupants?

Better call George Norry!

Dude, you are going to be free of this shjt one day and be happy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Simple truth is his WW is a liar. She has lied to him about who she truly is throughout their entire marriage. He is now seeing who and what she truly is. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Madman1

Ok thats well put! So I wish her well in the long run. 
But it really frosts my balls the way she uses him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

RG - I know we are just anonymous voices in the ether, but the powerful thing about TAM, I think, is the sincere desire of people of all kinds to help other people through their troubles and pain. Even though we don't really 'know' you, we know you & wish you a happy life.

I've said that I think it's possible that your W's abuse story is not real. Perhaps it's real and was traumatic or perhaps something less traumatic happened that she is now dramatizing to lure you back in. In any case, she should she a professional that you can talk to so that you can get a real diagnosis before you actually decide to help her in that.

Also, I think it's possible as well that she purposely allowed you to find her latest message to her OM. Whenever she feels that you are moving outside of her control, she does something to attract your attention (in this case the abuse revelation) & then slaps you down to show you who's in control (here, the message discovery). I'm hoping you won't fall for this.


----------



## JCD

alte Dame said:


> RG - I know we are just anonymous voices in the ether, but the powerful thing about TAM, I think, is the sincere desire of people of all kinds to help other people through their troubles and pain. Even though we don't really 'know' you, we know you & wish you a happy life.
> 
> I've said that I think it's possible that your W's abuse story is not real. Perhaps it's real and was traumatic or perhaps something less traumatic happened that she is now dramatizing to lure you back in. In any case, she should she a professional that you can talk to so that you can get a real diagnosis before you actually decide to help her in that.
> 
> Also, I think it's possible as well that she purposely allowed you to find her latest message to her OM. Whenever she feels that you are moving outside of her control, she does something to attract your attention (in this case the abuse revelation) & then slaps you down to show you who's in control (here, the message discovery). I'm hoping you won't fall for this.


More importantly, she just doesn't seem to be worth it. This seems to conflict with my advice to Dr. Mathias, but they have been MARRIED multiple years, they have a kid and she cheated with one, not THREE guys.

So tell me again why you aren't talking to HR again? Or has she finally locked you out of your computer and is making you sleep in the basement?

Pleast start to take some control in your life.


----------



## RaisedGarden

JCD said:


> More importantly, she just doesn't seem to be worth it. This seems to conflict with my advice to Dr. Mathias, but they have been MARRIED multiple years, they have a kid and she cheated with one, not THREE guys.
> 
> So tell me again why you aren't talking to HR again? Or has she finally locked you out of your computer and is making you sleep in the basement?
> 
> Pleast start to take some control in your life.


I haven't exposed to hr under advisement from my attorney. 
A. If she is unemployed at the time of discovery in the divorce it will be harder to get alimony. Esp if she is unemployed due to my actions
B. He is afraid of a counter suit due to my accessing her email even though it's a shared computer she left logged in. He said she'll loose in trial due to prior case outcomes, but it will cost me a fortune in legal bills and gum up the divorce. 

I am currently living in my guest bedroom. Have all my clothes and dog. Go to the gym daily. Keeping busy. Not sleeping well or eating much, but it will get better with time. I figure I'll be free of this part of my life by summer(depending on the courts). Alas live and learn. Also never marry a manipulative physician.


----------



## keko

Dude you are one lucky SOB.

Sorry you had to find it this way but in the long run you'll me very glad it did.

I agree with your attorney regarding exposing her to HR, but I would call her parents right away about the email and ask them to come and puck her up from the house. That'll ease your life so much until a divorce settlement is reached.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

RaisedGarden said:


> I haven't exposed to hr under advisement from my attorney.
> A. If she is unemployed at the time of discovery in the divorce it will be harder to get alimony. Esp if she is unemployed due to my actions
> B. He is afraid of a counter suit due to my accessing her email even though it's a shared computer she left logged in. He said she'll loose in trial due to prior case outcomes, but it will cost me a fortune in legal bills and gum up the divorce.
> 
> I am currently living in my guest bedroom. Have all my clothes and dog. Go to the gym daily. Keeping busy. Not sleeping well or eating much, but it will get better with time. I figure I'll be free of this part of my life by summer(depending on the courts). Alas live and learn. Also never marry a manipulative physician.


You can however send a note to the OM at work informing him that you a leaning toward exposing the affair to HR and that he should really rethink having any relationship with your wife.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Shaggy said:


> You can however send a note to the OM at work informing him that you a leaning toward exposing the affair to HR and that he should really rethink having any relationship with your wife.


I really am done with this marriage. If he wants the deceitful wench, she's all his. It really isn't worth the yelling and carrying on if I email him again. Besides I have an email in the can to send to the om's mother, father, and sibling pretty much saying if further contact occurs with my wife I was going to contact HR. Decided against it since it seemed so crazy and desperate. I don't know if it really is worth it in the end. What's everyone's thoughts on this?


----------



## alte Dame

RaisedGarden said:


> I really am done with this marriage. If he wants the deceitful wench, she's all his. It really isn't worth the yelling and carrying on if I email him again. Besides I have an email in the can to send to the om's mother, father, and sibling pretty much saying if further contact occurs with my wife I was going to contact HR. Decided against it since it seemed so crazy and desperate. I don't know if it really is worth it in the end. What's everyone's thoughts on this?


People often decide this based on logistics or how it will achieve their own goals, but I think that shaming is important and often enough of an incentive.


----------



## CH

If you're done with the marriage I would probably keep everything under wraps and get out 1st. No need to poke the bear and start a war that will cost a ton of $$ during the divorce.

Once the papers are signed, nuke her and never look back if you want. Or walk away as the better person.


----------



## JCD

RaisedGarden said:


> I really am done with this marriage. If he wants the deceitful wench, she's all his. It really isn't worth the yelling and carrying on if I email him again. Besides I have an email in the can to send to the om's mother, father, and sibling pretty much saying if further contact occurs with my wife I was going to contact HR. Decided against it since it seemed so crazy and desperate. I don't know if it really is worth it in the end. What's everyone's thoughts on this?


First off, take half the money out of ALL your accounts. And by 'your' I mean PLURAL. Her accounts too if you can get access. If not, find out how much she has and take out ALL the shared money you can get.

She will try to starve you from resources so you need to get that resolved NOW. The law can figure things out later but possession of money is more than 9/10s of the law.

Additionally, get her paycheck dinged so half goes to you if at all possible. She is still married and needs to pay her half of the expenses...which is half of her income. Yes, you might not get ALIMONY, but in the interim, try to get as much of her cash as you can. Sun Tzu said it is better to wage war with your opponents resources. And any money you can get the courts to throw your way is a bonus even if it's not half. It starves her and it grows you.

***

So...you don't expose right now.

I would encourage you to STRONGLY consider doing that. But I have an inherent sense of justice so this offends me. So if the cost is not too high, maybe some alimony she's going to worm out of anyway, I'd do it.

She is a doctor. She has God Complex. She is boning another doctor. HE has God Complex. Humility is good for the soul. 

I say help them become better souls.


----------



## Eli-Zor

RaisedGarden said:


> I haven't exposed to hr under advisement from my attorney.
> A. If she is unemployed at the time of discovery in the divorce it will be harder to get alimony. Esp if she is unemployed due to my actions
> B. He is afraid of a counter suit due to my accessing her email even though it's a shared computer she left logged in. He said she'll loose in trial due to prior case outcomes, but it will cost me a fortune in legal bills and gum up the divorce.
> 
> I am currently living in my guest bedroom. Have all my clothes and dog. Go to the gym daily. Keeping busy. Not sleeping well or eating much, but it will get better with time. I figure I'll be free of this part of my life by summer(depending on the courts). Alas live and learn. Also never marry a manipulative physician.


Get another lawyer , this one is feeding your fear to make his job easier. Why would a wayward sue you , they would have to go to court and that would give more exposure of their adultery, that is the last thing they want plus I have never seen a successful case bought against a BS by a wayward for exposure using the waywards emails. If she loses her job its because she is breaching company policy not because you have told HR .

Please , like many BS before you , you are hiding away from doing what has to be done. Expose the darn affair to HR and stand back . Don't say anything about what you have done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## moxy

RaisedGarden said:


> Yeah, I know I shouldn't come too hard about this, but if I can be this wrong about this person, what hell else have my eyes been closed over? I am beginning to settle in to the idea that I will be alone for awhile why the divorce proceeds. I am also realizing that it is most likely for the best that I am getting the divorce. What truly scares me is the dating scene, and trying to look for someone after becoming "damaged goods". I know that 50% of marriages end in divorce, but I never counted on myself being a part of that statistic. So I have been religious about the gym, and have been excited about taking care of myself. Complacency got me into this in the first place, I will never let it happen to me again.


Being married to a manipulative serial cheater and busting up his/her secret life by exposing while trying to fix your marriage will definitely earn you contempt and a control battle from such a wayward spouse -- and it will mess with your head, a lot. Lots of people are saying the right things on this thread. Keep trying to be objective and detached. It is clearer from the outside. I'm in the same boat as you and it sucks. Certainly didn't plan on spending the early middle of my 30s this way. I'm told that this gets easier, so, hang in there, bro.


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## OldWolf57

Always take care of the wallet is my first thought.
Many here have not had their mom and grandma steal a chicken in the dead of night to feed the kids. 
So grand gestures are fine, but I'd hold off until I know I'll be getting bank.


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## moxy

Her past abuse does not excuse her from being faithful, though it might indicate that her problems are deeply rooted. You didn't abuse her. She chose not to tell you about it before. And these "revelations" are not accompanied by remorse but by contempt, so think about it instead of reacting in a savior type way.

It is her therapist's job to help her work through HER issues. You have plenty to cope with that she has done TO you. Do not put your needs aside to help her deal with hers. You put your air mask on first before helping a kid on a plane, right?

By choosing to tell you instead if tell the therapist, and at such a precarious time, means she is manipulating you and trying to get you to back off from holding her accountable for her actions. I bet she knows she is doing this. Do not fall for it. Do not enable her.

Until and unless she is willing to be honest, to stop manipulating and treat you with respect, you won't be out of the cycle of the double life woven of illusions and control. Right now, she is in damage control mode.


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## OldWolf57

take Moxy advice and get some moxie yourself.


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## Chaparral

RaisedGarden said:


> I really am done with this marriage. If he wants the deceitful wench, she's all his. It really isn't worth the yelling and carrying on if I email him again. Besides I have an email in the can to send to the om's mother, father, and sibling pretty much saying if further contact occurs with my wife I was going to contact HR. Decided against it since it seemed so crazy and desperate. I don't know if it really is worth it in the end. What's everyone's thoughts on this?


If you do nothing it just means you let the OM make you AND you wife his b!tches. Is that clear enough? If you don't stand up for your self under these circumstances, I just don't see you ever being a man.


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## alte Dame

moxy said:


> Her past abuse does not excuse her from being faithful, though it might indicate that her problems are deeply rooted. You didn't abuse her. She chose not to tell you about it before. And these "revelations" are not accompanied by remorse but by contempt, so think about it instead of reacting in a savior type way.
> 
> It is her therapist's job to help her work through HER issues. You have plenty to cope with that she has done TO you. Do not put your needs aside to help her deal with hers. You put your air mask on first before helping a kid on a plane, right?
> 
> By choosing to tell you instead if tell the therapist, and at such a precarious time, means she is manipulating you and trying to get you to back off from holding her accountable for her actions. I bet she knows she is doing this. Do not fall for it. Do not enable her.
> 
> Until and unless she is willing to be honest, to stop manipulating and treat you with respect, you won't be out of the cycle of the double life woven of illusions and control. Right now, she is in damage control mode.


Bingo!


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

chapparal said:


> If you do nothing it just means you let the OM make you AND you wife his b!tches. Is that clear enough? *If you don't stand up for your self under these circumstances, I just don't see you ever being a man.*


Many times he faced similar situations. We know that from his thread but he never stood for himself. He wavered every time when she said or done something nice to him. I dont think that he will stick on to his decision for D if she shed some crocodile tears and say something nice to him. He is tooooooo nice, but I hope as others that at least this time he will be firm on his decision and stand for himself.


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## AlphaHalf

You need to seek counseling on being too trusting/gullible/forgiving. You need hard defined boundaries to stop being taken advantage of through manipulation/sympathy. As soon as your wife mentioned abuse you where already folding on your resolve, If you didn't find those messages she would've played you for foolAGAIN. You cannot play "Captain SaveAHO" with every female you meet.


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## the guy

RaisedGarden said:


> I really am done with this marriage. If he wants the deceitful wench, she's all his. It really isn't worth the yelling and carrying on if I email him again. Besides I have an email in the can to send to the om's mother, father, and sibling pretty much saying if further contact occurs with my wife I was going to contact HR. Decided against it since it seemed so crazy and desperate. I don't know if it really is worth it in the end. What's everyone's thoughts on this?


I get the marriage is over.
BUT!

When in commes to exposure to others on AP side you don't have to look like a Jealous spiteful husbend threatening bad to there son/brother.

So play it like this " My wife is Mrs. Raisedgarden and she is currently in an affair with your son/bothers and I'm contacting you looking for support for our marriage. No matter what you may have heard we a very much married and according to my Mrs. Raisedgarden we want to working on repairing this family and marriage. Since it takes two to effect the dynamics of a marriage, I'm simply asking that you support me and my wife in removing the third party to out marriage. I will be asking for the same support with Mrs. Raisedgarden and OM's employer".

See, playing it like this makes you look like a good man looking for support instead a vantictive bad guy. I get the marriage is over, but it is an effective way to call the OM out to his family, and makes it very unfomfortable to bring the new girl friend (your wife) around OM's mom, dad, and siblings.

I highly recommend you send this type of email versuse the one you have.


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## warlock07

How much alimony for 2 years of marriage ? I don't think it will be much


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## OldWolf57

Warlock raised an interesting point.

The marriage is only 2 yrs, but the relationship is 14.
I know many States consider domestic partnership in divisions, so why not this one, seeing as she went to school and started her career during. 
I'm sure you helped support her, so as I see it, half her Dr. Degree and income is yours for life. PALIMONY, Lee Marvin.


----------



## RaisedGarden

AlphaHalf said:


> You need to seek counseling on being too trusting/gullible/forgiving. You need hard defined boundaries to stop being taken advantage of through manipulation/sympathy. As soon as your wife mentioned abuse you where already folding on your resolve, If you didn't find those messages she would've played you for foolAGAIN. You cannot play "Captain SaveAHO" with every female you meet.


I have to take that on as my super hero name. "Captain SaveAHO"
Thanks for the laugh, and yes I am in the process of looking for a new therapist. I know that I allow myself to be walked all over, but I think this has shown me that I need to change what I define as a relationship, and my part in it. Thanks for everyone having my back.


----------



## RaisedGarden

OldWolf57 said:


> Warlock raised an interesting point.
> 
> The marriage is only 2 yrs, but the relationship is 14.
> I know many States consider domestic partnership in divisions, so why not this one, seeing as she went to school and started her career during.
> I'm sure you helped support her, so as I see it, half her Degree and income is yours for life. PALIMONY, Lee Marvin.


The lawyer thinks I have a good case for rehabilitative alimony for about the length of true support ~6 years. He says that with a cap on the length of support, it is more likely to be accepted by my WW legal team and the judge. As for hard assets, he says that I will be entitled to 50% of the house, furniture, etc... My business was incorporated years prior to this so she will only be entitled to any gains made during the two years of the marriage. So if she counter sues it will be very difficult for them to cut the amount of the alimony by offset. I am becoming well versed on all things divorce. I have seen fortune 500 companies go through chapter 11 with less legalize than I am seeing here. I think I missed my calling, I should have been a divorce lawyer. :smthumbup:


----------



## RaisedGarden

Oh I forgot to tell everyone, I just found out that my wife has been going into my email account to see how much I know about what she is doing. Funny part is that the email address she was looking at isn't the one I am using with my lawyer, and the people I have been going to with help. Funny how she gives me hell for wanting full disclosure, and how I'm a vile human being for going into her email that she left open on our shared computer. I guess she missed the day in class where they defined hypocrisy.


----------



## Jonesey

RaisedGarden said:


> Oh I forgot to tell everyone, I just found out that my wife has been going into my email account to see how much I know about what she is doing. Funny part is that the email address she was looking at isn't the one I am using with my lawyer, and the people I have been going to with help. Funny how she gives me hell for wanting full disclosure, and how I'm a vile human being for going into her email that she left open on our shared computer. I guess she missed the day in class where they defined hypocrisy.


Still convinced that her past abuse, is a issue here?


----------



## moxy

Her double dealing is not surprising. She is still in damage control mode. She wants to be able to control this shipwreck so it doesn't look like it was her fault. Cheaters often spy on those they betray in order to gauge the effectiveness of their subterfuge and its associated strategies; if only they'd safeguard their marriages as well as they do their lies...!


----------



## Louise7

RaisedGarden said:


> Oh I forgot to tell everyone, I just found out that my wife has been going into my email account to see how much I know about what she is doing. Funny part is that the email address she was looking at isn't the one I am using with my lawyer, and the people I have been going to with help. Funny how she gives me hell for wanting full disclosure, and how I'm a vile human being for going into her email that she left open on our shared computer. I guess she missed the day in class where they defined hypocrisy.


Just a thought but could she have found this place? Be reading what you are saying? I hope not.


----------



## RaisedGarden

Louise7 said:


> Just a thought but could she have found this place? Be reading what you are saying? I hope not.


Anything is possible, but my name here is nothing that I have used in the past. I use the incognito mode in chrome, so there is no history of this place, and even if she did find it she would have no clue where to look for my posts. If she does find it, all well what am I going to do differently. Also the email that I have for this place she can not get into. So I think I'm pretty covered, then again she thought she was as well :rofl:


----------



## warlock07

RaisedGarden said:


> The lawyer thinks I have a good case for rehabilitative alimony for about the length of true support ~6 years. He says that with a cap on the length of support, it is more likely to be accepted by my WW legal team and the judge. As for hard assets, he says that I will be entitled to 50% of the house, furniture, etc... My business was incorporated years prior to this so she will only be entitled to any gains made during the two years of the marriage. So if she counter sues it will be very difficult for them to cut the amount of the alimony by offset. I am becoming well versed on all things divorce. I have seen fortune 500 companies go through chapter 11 with less legalize than I am seeing here. I think I missed my calling, I should have been a divorce lawyer. :smthumbup:


Get a second opinion about it from a different lawyer..The more you know, the better.

And change your passwords just in case...She might have installed keylogger herself(reinstalling OS will fix this. )..So make sure that the computer yu are using isn't compromised..


----------



## JCD

warlock07 said:


> Get a second opinion about it from a different lawyer..
> 
> And change your passwords just in case...And she might have installed keylogger herself(reinstalling OS will fix this. )..So make sure that the computer yu are using isn't compromised


Heck, take her credit card and BUY a new laptop. Get a good one with a warranty for three years! Have the Geeks put an administrative password on it by the time you leave the store and have spyware software primed.

Pick up a few games as well. Shouldn't you get SOMETHING out of this mess?

Tell her you need it to treat your 'abuse'


----------



## RaisedGarden

JCD said:


> Heck, take her credit card and BUY a new laptop. Get a good one with a warranty for three years! Have the Geeks put an administrative password on it by the time you leave the store and have spyware software primed.
> 
> Pick up a few games as well. Shouldn't you get SOMETHING out of this mess?
> 
> Tell her you need it to treat your 'abuse'


I used to build pc's and design and manage networks in my former life, so not so much need. As for her and a keylogger, lets just put it this way, when I asked her to reset the router by unplugging it, she thought the router was our cable box. So no I don't think she has enough technical acumen to pull that one off. . 
ps. all my passwords for everything have been changed to complex long chain high security codes. Even if she brute forced me, it would take 140 years for her to get a password with a supercomputer. As for a new pc, well I'm saving up to pay the Ferryman his gold to cross the river styx that was my marriage.


----------



## JCD

Her money is your money

Don't you get that yet?

So Hacker McHackysack. Get the information which will help you pay your attorney

Or does she get to pay for her hotel rooms out of family money, but you can't pay the lawyer she forced you to?


----------



## RaisedGarden

JCD said:


> Her money is your money
> 
> Don't you get that yet?
> 
> So Hacker McHackysack. Get the information which will help you pay your attorney
> 
> Or does she get to pay for her hotel rooms out of family money, but you can't pay the lawyer she forced you to?


From what I can tell, most of her intimate meetings with him have been in her car or at "their place at work". The only way she could be paying for a hotel would have to be cash, and to be honest there is no way I could ever track that. She always keeps a few hundy on her "just in case". As for the info, I have a binder at this point of her driveling back and forth with her lover boys. Definitely, no way in hell is this going uncontested. I'm filing for divorce on grounds of extramarital affair. So her and the most recent lover will get served at work. All well. Also, I'm using 401k money to pay the lawyer to keep her from finding out and going thermonuclear until she gets the paper in hand. Then the accounts and assets will be frozen and she wont be able to hide her cash. I leave nothing to chance with this manipulative wench. I have been so wrong about everything else with her, I didn't want to end up behind the eight ball with this.


----------



## JCD

Okay, you are frustrating the hell out of me so let me lay it on the line very plainly.

Option One: You take a credit card and you GO to the attorney. (Stay with me here) He RUNS IT THROUGH HIS MACHINE...and your court fees just became part of marital debt (sort of like the THOUSANDS she saddled you with)

Okay. You don't like that one.

Option Two: You GO to the attorney and you say "My mid six figure Doctor wife is cheating on me with one of her underlings at a rich hosptial. Unfortunately, she's a controlling ***** and has cut me off from all marital money."

Watch the flurry of advice which will come out of his mouth! I'm sure he could solve ALL your questions on that issue...for free...right there...

Don't like that one?

Option THREE: See Cheating *****. See Cheating *****'s Jimmy Choo boots. See Cheating *****'s Gucci Purse. See Cheating *****'s gold jewelry. See DoorMatt. Matt no likey Cheating ***** any more. Matt sees Pawn Shop. Matt has money. Cheating ***** has claim tickets. Matt HAPPY!

Hmm. Then there is the direct route:

"Hi honey. I want ten thousand dollars tomorrow. No, I'm not joking. I want ten thousand dollars tomorrow and I don't care where it's coming from. Or this goes out."




> Dear Sir. I would like to report that Dr. Lick and Dr. Thumbdrive have been engaging in an adulterous affair. Please see attached emails and texts. As you can see, SHE was the instigator in chasing a subordinate. As this violates NUMEROUS codes of conduct, I am sending this to YOU (HR, NJ Board of Medical Ethics, College Sorority) so you can take the appropriate action. My counsel is VERY interested in this case.


"See, I don't NORMALLY see me getting much alimony. But strangely, I see you as becoming suddenly generous. This goes out tomorrow evening at 7 p.m. I am going to a hotel somewhere. When you pass me a cashiers check or a big wad of bills, I'll stop this from going out. A divorce is nasty and expensive, but NOT IF YOU'RE WORKING. I can solve that last if you aren't reasonable."


----------



## RaisedGarden

JCD said:


> Okay, you are frustrating the hell out of me so let me lay it on the line very plainly.
> 
> Option One: You take a credit card and you GO to the attorney. (Stay with me here) He RUNS IT THROUGH HIS MACHINE...and your court fees just became part of marital debt (sort of like the THOUSANDS she saddled you with)
> 
> Okay. You don't like that one.
> 
> Option Two: You GO to the attorney and you say "My mid six figure Doctor wife is cheating on me with one of her underlings at a rich hosptial. Unfortunately, she's a controlling ***** and has cut me off from all marital money."
> 
> Watch the flurry of advice which will come out of his mouth! I'm sure he could solve ALL your questions on that issue...for free...right there...
> 
> Don't like that one?
> 
> Option THREE: See Cheating *****. See Cheating *****'s Jimmy Choo boots. See Cheating *****'s Gucci Purse. See Cheating *****'s gold jewelry. See DoorMatt. Matt no likey Cheating ***** any more. Matt sees Pawn Shop. Matt has money. Cheating ***** has claim tickets. Matt HAPPY!
> 
> Hmm. Then there is the direct route:
> 
> "Hi honey. I want ten thousand dollars tomorrow. No, I'm not joking. I want ten thousand dollars tomorrow and I don't care where it's coming from. Or this goes out."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "See, I don't NORMALLY see me getting much alimony. But strangely, I see you as becoming suddenly generous. This goes out tomorrow evening at 7 p.m. I am going to a hotel somewhere. When you pass me a cashiers check or a big wad of bills, I'll stop this from going out. A divorce is nasty and expensive, but NOT IF YOU'RE WORKING. I can solve that last if you aren't reasonable."


I was trying to go under the radar and get my money back at the end of the divorce, but pushing her face in her own mess works as well. The only problem I have with this approach is can this be construed as Black Mail, and if so can that not just hurt me more in the end? Also the legal ramifications of being involved in a felony. Just saying?


----------



## JCD

RaisedGarden said:


> I was trying to go under the radar and get my money back at the end of the divorce, but pushing her face in her own mess works as well. The only problem I have with this approach is can this be construed as Black Mail, and if so can that not just hurt me more in the end? Also the legal ramifications of being involved in a felony. Just saying?


Blackmail is such an ugly word. That is when a stranger tries to make you do something.

When it's your wife, it's 'marital negotiation.' Was it blackmail when she used sex to get her way with you?

But that is only ONE of the four options...

You need a more aggressive (or at least imaginative) attorney.

But I can understand that too. It took me a week to get a withdrawal from my 401k. A divorce is looked upon as a financial emergency. BTW, how do you intend on getting the mailed in check without her discovering it? Think about that.


----------



## RaisedGarden

JCD said:


> Blackmail is such an ugly word. That is when a stranger tries to make you do something.
> 
> When it's your wife, it's 'marital negotiation.' Was it blackmail when she used sex to get her way with you?
> 
> But that is only ONE of the four options...
> 
> You need a more aggressive (or at least imaginative) attorney.


Well when you put it that way. I suck at picking women and a wife. I suck at picking an attorney. Maybe it wasn't a good idea that I put in those replacement refs in the NFL as well. Thanks. maybe I have been going about this all wrong. Went on the suggestions of other lawyers on who they would use if they were getting divorced, this guys name came up every time. Maybe he's something that I'm not seeing other than an insanely expensive retainer.


----------



## alte Dame

From what you've told us it seems fair to assume that your W will make your life a living h3ll whenever you make even the slightest attempt to make an independent decision. I think that no matter which way you choose to go, she's going to make sure you know that she still controls you, in small things and large. A shark attorney with a taste for blood would save you a lot of grief in this process, since you wouldn't have to personally deal with the W's rages all the time.


----------



## happyman64

RaisedGarden said:


> From what I can tell, most of her intimate meetings with him have been in her car or at "their place at work". The only way she could be paying for a hotel would have to be cash, and to be honest there is no way I could ever track that. She always keeps a few hundy on her "just in case". As for the info, I have a binder at this point of her driveling back and forth with her lover boys. Definitely, no way in hell is this going uncontested. I'm filing for divorce on grounds of extramarital affair. So her and the most recent lover will get served at work. All well. Also, I'm using 401k money to pay the lawyer to keep her from finding out and going thermonuclear until she gets the paper in hand. Then the accounts and assets will be frozen and she wont be able to hide her cash. I leave nothing to chance with this manipulative wench. I have been so wrong about everything else with her, I didn't want to end up behind the eight ball with this.


RG

I think you outlined a good plan.

You have evidence.
You obtained a lawyer with 401k money.

When will your wife be served?

HM64


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## RaisedGarden

happyman64 said:


> RG
> 
> I think you outlined a good plan.
> 
> You have evidence.
> You obtained a lawyer with 401k money.
> 
> When will your wife be served?
> 
> HM64


Lawyer tells me to wait till after first of the year. His case load is tight, and I guess I will still need to file jointly this year so might as well take it out till 2013. Also my HR at my place is being a pain on taking the loan out of my 401k. So who knows when I will get the money. So I guess she has a temporary reprieve, but the gallows are in the process of going up. Just waiting on the executioner.


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## happyman64

Make sure the executioners blade is sharp!

Bide your time well and keep her clueless......


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## PHTlump

JCD said:


> Okay, you are frustrating the hell out of me so let me lay it on the line very plainly.
> 
> Option One: You take a credit card and you GO to the attorney. (Stay with me here) He RUNS IT THROUGH HIS MACHINE...and your court fees just became part of marital debt (sort of like the THOUSANDS she saddled you with)


And two weeks later, the divorce lawyer's retainer shows up on the bill. Maybe RG can get the lawyer to bill him in multiple, random increments between $15 and $50 in the name of gas stations around town. Because I'm betting that $5k charged to a divorce lawyer would raise her suspicions.



JCD said:


> Option Two: You GO to the attorney and you say "My mid six figure Doctor wife is cheating on me with one of her underlings at a rich hosptial. Unfortunately, she's a controlling ***** and has cut me off from all marital money."
> 
> Watch the flurry of advice which will come out of his mouth! I'm sure he could solve ALL your questions on that issue...for free...right there...


You don't think he's shared the pertinent information with the several attorneys he's spoken to? I do. I think he's probably gotten competent advice for his local jurisdiction.



JCD said:


> Option THREE: See Cheating *****. See Cheating *****'s Jimmy Choo boots. See Cheating *****'s Gucci Purse. See Cheating *****'s gold jewelry. See DoorMatt. Matt no likey Cheating ***** any more. Matt sees Pawn Shop. Matt has money. Cheating ***** has claim tickets. Matt HAPPY!
> 
> Hmm. Then there is the direct route:
> 
> "Hi honey. I want ten thousand dollars tomorrow. No, I'm not joking. I want ten thousand dollars tomorrow and I don't care where it's coming from. Or this goes out."


These are pretty equivalent. And I can tell you that judges LOVE it when one spouse just steals or tries to blackmail from the other. Now, I would be all for squirreling away as much cash as will not be missed. But that's a lot different from pawning her jewelry or blackmailing her. Watch how the support hearings go when the judge hears that. He'll wind up paying her support.

Everybody should just chill out. RG has an attorney. And, sadly for us, the attorney will not advise him to light himself on fire in her parking lot and upload the video to us on this sight. I guess we'll have to be satisfied with a boring old divorce settlement that takes several months and doesn't involve impalement or the rack.


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## JCD

PHTlump said:


> Everybody should just chill out. RG has an attorney. And, sadly for us, the attorney will not advise him to light himself on fire in her parking lot and upload the video to us on this sight. I guess we'll have to be satisfied with a boring old divorce settlement that takes several months and doesn't involve impalement or the rack.


Where is the fun in that? 

If this is the BEST GUY he's been advised to get, than take his advice.

Set her up. Take her down.

Since RG has been wishy washy to say the least on this issue, I would prefer something faster before he loses his nerve or she comes up with some other sob story to pull on his puppet strings.

And I say this in love. If you hadn't seen her emails to the OM, how much of a sap would you have been about that abuse story, RG?


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## RaisedGarden

PHTlump said:


> And two weeks later, the divorce lawyer's retainer shows up on the bill. Maybe RG can get the lawyer to bill him in multiple, random increments between $15 and $50 in the name of gas stations around town. Because I'm betting that $5k charged to a divorce lawyer would raise her suspicions.
> 
> 
> You don't think he's shared the pertinent information with the several attorneys he's spoken to? I do. I think he's probably gotten competent advice for his local jurisdiction.
> 
> 
> These are pretty equivalent. And I can tell you that judges LOVE it when one spouse just steals or tries to blackmail from the other. Now, I would be all for squirreling away as much cash as will not be missed. But that's a lot different from pawning her jewelry or blackmailing her. Watch how the support hearings go when the judge hears that. He'll wind up paying her support.
> 
> Everybody should just chill out. RG has an attorney. And, sadly for us, the attorney will not advise him to light himself on fire in her parking lot and upload the video to us on this sight. I guess we'll have to be satisfied with a boring old divorce settlement that takes several months and doesn't involve impalement or the rack.


I'm being told that in my county, if she decides to fight it to the fullest extent, the earliest I can expect a trial date is the middle of 2014. If she throws in the towel and tries to play nice he said that I may be able to have the marriage dissolved by the end of the summer. So I'm kind of stuck in this half life of married but not for at least until fall of next year. I have already begun to look for places to store my stuff when we sell the place, and I have to start to look for places that allow dogs over 70 pounds(pretty rare in my area). that isn't over 1800 a month in rent. 

Kind of sucks starting my life over again. I know it's for the best, but this was unimaginable to me 6 months ago, and now I'm living through the worst of nightmares. If anyone out there has gone through this, what is left after all the planing and the technical aspects of the divorce is through? What seems to be keeping me going is the light at the end of the tunnel that is the divorce. When I don't have that anymore, is it going to hit me like a ton of bricks? I have been going to the gym religiously and trying my best to keep on the top of my game at work. Will that keep me fulfilled after the end of the storm?


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## RaisedGarden

Just spoke with the ww. Saw her therapist today. She tried telling me that it is okay for her to keep talking and seeing the OM because he allows her to have a friend in a time of need. What in the Hell kind of a therapist would condone that sort of relationship when they know that it is the reason the marriage is dissolving? Is there ever a reason psychological speaking for a cheating spouse to maintain communication with the other party, and what kind of therapist would ever suggest this??


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## alte Dame

Some therapists are not trained in issues of infidelity. Some actually enable patients with their bad behavior. It's a very subjective field - a lot of therapists are reactive, kind of seat-of-the-pants. The good ones, though, can really help tremendously.


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## JCD

RaisedGarden said:


> What in the Hell kind of a therapist would condone that sort of relationship when they know that it is the reason the marriage is dissolving?


One who wants to keep getting paid.


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## OldWolf57

man just tell her you are D/ing, so she can fk him all she wants, bc you DON'T want her anymore.


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## warlock07

She is lying to the therapist..

OR she is lying about her therapist..


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## warlock07

RaisedGarden said:


> Just spoke with the ww. Saw her therapist today. She tried telling me that it is okay for her to keep talking and seeing the OM because he allows her to have a friend in a time of need. What in the Hell kind of a therapist would condone that sort of relationship when they know that it is the reason the marriage is dissolving? Is there ever a reason psychological speaking for a cheating spouse to maintain communication with the other party, and what kind of therapist would ever suggest this??


If the therapist did really say that, she should live with her/him...

Ask to speak to her therapist and see how she reactws


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## theroad

RaisedGarden said:


> Just spoke with the ww. Saw her therapist today. She tried telling me that it is okay for her to keep talking and seeing the OM because he allows her to have a friend in a time of need. What in the Hell kind of a therapist would condone that sort of relationship when they know that it is the reason the marriage is dissolving? Is there ever a reason psychological speaking for a cheating spouse to maintain communication with the other party, and what kind of therapist would ever suggest this??


Another example of a bad therapist. Putting their savings acount first before their patients.

You see if a counselor tells their patient things they don't want to hear the patient stops going.


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## happyman64

RaisedGarden said:


> Just spoke with the ww. Saw her therapist today. She tried telling me that it is okay for her to keep talking and seeing the OM because he allows her to have a friend in a time of need. What in the Hell kind of a therapist would condone that sort of relationship when they know that it is the reason the marriage is dissolving? Is there ever a reason psychological speaking for a cheating spouse to maintain communication with the other party, and what kind of therapist would ever suggest this??


Yes RG. There is a very good reason.

Your WW is lying to her therapist........


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## Acabado

Tell her she's lying. Period.
Dark on her.


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## Shaggy

You need to understand that the therapist is not trying to save your marriage. She is not trying to stop your wife cheating.

She is entirely about making your wife feel good and happy.

So if your wife said to her, I want to keep the OM around because he makes me happy, the therapist is going yo say do what makes you feel good.

Basically the IC is a paid enabler.


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## Eli-Zor

happyman64 said:


> Yes RG. There is a very good reason.
> 
> Your WW is lying to her therapist........


Agree

phone the therapist and confirm the status , if he/she is enabling your wife refuse to pay and have your wife change therapists.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

Eli-Zor said:


> Agree
> 
> phone the therapist and confirm the status , if he/she is enabling your wife refuse to pay and have your wife change therapists.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you READ this thread? The wife has all the money and she's the one with big brass ones.

If it's entertaining to you, RG, call the therapist and see what she says. But what is the point?


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## RaisedGarden

Eli-Zor said:


> Agree
> 
> phone the therapist and confirm the status , if he/she is enabling your wife refuse to pay and have your wife change therapists.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok so this day will go down as a bad one. So I tell my wife I would like to talk with her therapist. The one who said it's ok for her to keep on with the OM. SHE Denies she ever said that, and she's tired of me hearing what I want to. This is like the 30th time where she has said something and reneged on it as soon as I mention it. She's f'ing with my memory and mind. I know what I heard and she keeps doing this. I am half tempted to vor all of our conversations. She also tells me that he already told her there is no point in me talking to him since it's only ic. My previous therapist always wanted to talk with her. Also today I go into her purse to get keys to move her car. Nothing clandestine. Guess what I find? A carved heart and a love note from him to her. Immediately its "why we're you in my purse?" "you know about what happened with us why is this bothering you so much? ". She also tried to play that it's from months ago and she just so happened to forget it was in there... I know I'm moving towards D, but why is this still bothering me so much??


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## happyman64

RaisedGarden said:


> Ok so this day will go down as a bad one. So I tell my wife I would like to talk with her therapist. The one who said it's ok for her to keep on with the OM. SHE Denies she ever said that, and she's tired of me hearing what I want to. This is like the 30th time where she has said something and reneged on it as soon as I mention it. She's f'ing with my memory and mind. I know what I heard and she keeps doing this. I am half tempted to vor all of our conversations. She also tells me that he already told her there is no point in me talking to him since it's only ic. My previous therapist always wanted to talk with her. Also today I go into her purse to get keys to move her car. Nothing clandestine. Guess what I find? A carved heart and a love note from him to her. Immediately its "why we're you in my purse?" "you know about what happened with us why is this bothering you so much? ". She also tried to play that it's from months ago and she just so happened to forget it was in there... I know I'm moving towards D, but why is this still bothering me so much??


RG

You should VAR all your conversations just to confirm you are not crazy and that she is F'ing with you as in abuse!

Then do yourself a favor. Go back into her purse. Take the note and heart. Burn the note outside and then take a hammer to the heart and the beat the living [email protected] out of it until it is no longer recognizable.

Take the ashes and the heart, put them in a plastic sandwich bag with a little love note from you:

*"Dear STBXW,

You are right, these little things should not bother me so much. I am much better now. 

Thank you for showing me the way!

Respectfully
RG"*

That is how you do it buddy!!!

And I guarantee you will feel better and more in control of you.....

HM64


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## tom67

happyman64 said:


> RG
> 
> You should VAR all your conversations just to confirm you are not crazy and that she is F'ing with you as in abuse!
> 
> Then do yourself a favor. Go back into her purse. Take the note and heart. Burn the note outside and then take a hammer to the heart and the beat the living [email protected] out of it until it is no longer recognizable.
> 
> Take the ashes and the heart, put them in a plastic sandwich bag with a little love note from you:
> 
> *"Dear STBXW,
> 
> You are right, these little things should not bother me so much. I am much better now.
> 
> Thank you for showing me the way!
> 
> Respectfully
> RG"*
> 
> That is how you do it buddy!!!
> 
> And I guarantee you will feel better and more in control of you.....
> 
> HM64


Raised it's time to expose her at work and if you don't have much money find a dam sleeping room on craigslist and get away from this toxic b!tch.


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## alte Dame

happyman64 said:


> RG
> 
> You should VAR all your conversations just to confirm you are not crazy and that she is F'ing with you as in abuse!


Yes.


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## Acabado

Classic example of gaslighting. She want you to doubt your own perceptions. After all she has been gaslighting you for years, right?

She just wanted you out of her back and came up with this.


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## JCD

It is bothering you because YOU are coming out of the Fog. You thought she was this perfect little smart and sexy woman who thought you were, if not perfect, quirky and hers. That you shared SOME sort of connection.

And now you wake up next to this two faced alien. One who not only is crapping on you NOW, but seems to have been doing so since 2007 and, here is the kicker, *she's acting like nothing is wrong.*

It would be akin to her coming home, covered in blood with a grocery bag and she pulls a head of the bag while she talks to you about how she needs new brake pads and can you handle it?

Who is this person and where did she come from?

She is not a serial killer or Satan. But if what you say is true, she is very unhealthy to stick around, particularly if you are a person who feels 2+2=4, not whatever She happens to want it to be.

Carry the VAR for your protection and piece of mind. Download to a cloud or a web based email so she can't delete it.

Change all your passwords and delete browsing histories.

*STOP TALKING TO HER*

Adjust your schedule so you aren't around when she is around if at all possible. Since bars, libraries and movie theaters all have a wide range of hours, you can find SOMETHING to do so you are away from Dr. Strangehump.

Do the things you need to do financially. Listen to your lawyer, but at some point, you need to educate her into the fact that reality is not whatever she wishes it was.

Secure your valuables, emotional as well as fiscal.

Keep a bag packed at all times in your car. Set up with a friend or two a crash pad in case things go south. Have a fistful of dollars to see you through a few days if home becomes too emotionally trying.

What do you POSSIBLY have to talk to this woman about? Her latest affair? How she's been allowing men to play with her body for the last 5 years? That she's defrauded you of years of your life and thousands of dollars? It's a sunk cost. Those years will never come back and that money is gone-ish. 

She is a con artist and a horrible human being. Talking to her lets her work your levers. The only way to protect yourself from the same is to never believe anything she says, does or alledges. Personally, I think she set up these affairs for you to find so she could have you get all huffy annd divorce her ass so her hands stay clean. She is now 'too good for you' so she's gone...which is why you don't see a bit of remorse. It's all going according to plan.

Make her choke on her plans.


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## Shaggy

I hope you kept the OMs gift and didn't return it to her.


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## warlock07

Are you a masochist?


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## RaisedGarden

Shaggy said:


> I hope you kept the OMs gift and didn't return it to her.


Took a picture to keep with the growing volume for divorce proceedings. I spoke with the lawyer this morning and he said that it can't hurt to have this volume at the first meetings after the new year with her legal team(yes that's right team). He is going to push aggressively for Alimony of a set term. As for the gas lighting thing. Lawyer said that it isn't a bad idea for VOR, as long it is on my person and a person involved in the conversation. Otherwise risk wiretapping laws. God I love my life right now.


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## aug

Is it wiretapping if you are monitoring your own home and vehicle for security? Look at hidden security cams to monitor both inside and outside.


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## PHTlump

RG,

You're bothered because you're still adjusting to the idea of divorcing your wife. Somewhere, deep down, you're thinking that it might just be possible for her to give up the other men and choose you. You will let that notion go completely in time.

To help yourself adjust to this, you should doing a hard 180. I mean everything on the list. The list was written for you. Your wife has checked out of your marriage. The only way she wants to remain married to you is if you sign off on her affairs. So you have to check out too. And you can't check out of your marriage when you're monitoring her and trying to talk to her therapist. Let it go. If it doesn't affect you immediately and directly, let it go.

As for what to expect after your divorce, that's where your slow-boat divorce will help you. Since you're going to spend the next 10-20 months on your divorce, that gives you plenty of time to get in shape, get some interesting hobbies, and work on your personality. Run the MAP. By the time the divorce is final, you will have a new crew of friends to celebrate with.

Good luck.


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