# Confident wife cheated but she's adamant that she didn't. Would appreciate opinions



## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

Firstly, I've been reading through this forum and found a lot of comfort in the support that members are showing each other. It has given me the confidence to share part of what has happened to me (which is obviously humiliating).

My wife and I have been together 20years, we met at school and I fell for her in a big way. There has been a lot of signs things weren't right early on and was warned by family that they didn't think she was good for me. I defended her and stuck it out because I loved her.

What I would like some perspective on is strange behaviour and things occurring that never made sense at the time but now I can't see any other reason except that she was unfaithful. She absolutely denies it when confronted.

2 years in to marriage wife regularly traveling for work. One such trip she is gone for 5 weeks. Long story short, we chat on the phone most nights and I hear lots about a fellow she's met whose also traveled up there from the same organisation (different office) and they're working together. I know they have dinner a couple of times. I'm not concerned because I'm also traveling for work and with a very attractive woman who became a dear friend of mine/ours, nothing more.

We had organised that I'd travel up to meet my wife on the final weekend of her stay. I get there, we go to dinner. The waitress accuses her of two timing. Wife explains that I'm her husband and the other guy was just a work colleague. Waitress not convinced. I step in and assure waitress that this is true and I'm fully aware That they were having dinner together and all is fine.

We go to wife's accommodation. Later in bed I'm cuddling her: no response, stiff as a board and staring at ceiling. I try to kiss her, no response. I ask her if she's ok? She's cold but assures all ok. Earlier in the day I accidentally discovered she's removed pubic hair (something she had always refused to do and said would never happen and has never happened since). She angrily states that it was meant to be a surprise for me. I go to have a look and she clamps her legs shut not letting me see or go near it. I feel like I'm raping her! So I stop and ask what's going on. She bursts into tears and holds me tight but can't explain.

I get no answers (and still never even think infidelity???). The weekend ends up fine and she's back to normal. I ask her how she removed her hair, she states she can't remember. I push for an answer as this is clearly a lie and she gets really angry so I leave it.

Looking back I realise that after this trip she lost lots of weight, got very fit, new hairstyle, new clothes and then her attitude changed. She became extremely ****y, condescending and I went from feeling like an equal to nothing, like an annoyance. 

Sex dried up between us, no intimacy either. We were booked for a holiday at our favourite place and all of a sudden she wants to change destinations. I get my way and we go where we were booked. At the time I'm baffled to why she wanted this change. We go and she's nasty and cold the whole time. To the point that when I suggested intimacy on a rainy afternoon she told me "I don't want to waste my afternoon" in a way that had so much spite. I was beyond hurt and speechless. This was the place we had so many of our happiest times and where I eventually proposed!!

The next year I didn't want a repeat so let her choose any where she liked. She ends up booking a place where she wanted to go the year before. Leading up to the holiday she asks if she could visit this guy from the work trip. I was a bit surprised, I had forgotten about him and surprised she'd want to meet up again. I was ok with it and intrigued to meet him so said yes.

We get there and while discussing our plans I ask when she wants us to visit him. She says she's changed her mind. I push for an explanation and get shut down. BTW, on the way up we stayed somewhere else. I bought a sex card game with us (again trying to rekindle our intimacy). She reluctantly agrees to try. First card asks her to "do to your partner what you'd like to be done to you". She bursts into tears and heads out of the room. I'm starting to wonder at this time if she's ever been sexually abused. I'm confused and worried about her. Anyway, the reason for that tangent is that a few days later in the town where suspected OM lives we have an incredible night of sex. My normally dry wife floods the bed, asks me to do things that have always been a no no, except this one time. I ask her what was so special and she angrily shuts me down.

Anyway, there are other things that happened over the years that made me start to suspect, unexplained absences, I caught her hiding from me then lying about where she went not realising I saw her, no acknowledgement of anniversaries etc.

Finally, last year I stumbled on the name of this OM. I looked him up and found his facebook. I recognise him as someone in a photo that she took on that work trip. Somewhere she's always stated, and continued to state, she was alone. One day I clicked on a video he posted. I hear his voice and it instantly takes me back to strange 'wrong number' calls I received years ago. I'd forgotten about them. I'd get these calls and everytine I picked up the same guy would always say "sorry wrong number". He had a distinctive voice and accent. It happened too many times to be genuine and I was getting worried. The calls then turned into hang ups every time I answered the phone. I then decided to wait before speaking after picking phone up and there'd be silence then I'd hear it hang up. I was concerned so I raised it with my wife (not in the least suspecting she had had anything to do with it). I wanted to change number and make it private but she shut me down and wasn't at all concerned or interested. Anyway, calls then stopped, I left it and forgot about it all.

I've recently confronted her about this and have been to counselling. She even chose counsellor. (I had taken her to one earlier as I was fed up with her lack of intimacy and general bullying attitude but she decided this one wasn't the right one and stopped attending).

She states that she had a stalker at the time. I told her how ridiculous it is that she had a stalker and yet I was not told especially when I raised concerns about the phone calls. She's now backed away from that claim and still won't give any explanation to her behaviour on that night I met her on her trip. It's too long ago to remember she claims.

There is more circumstantial evidence that all point to an affair including comments and bizarre reactions by one of her friends but I'll leave it at that for now.

If you've read through all of this, thank you.

I'd appreciate some perspective on this. I realise you are only hearing my side of the story but I've tried to tell it as accurately as I can and left out further evidence that I suspect could be me being biased.

The closest I've come to an admission is once, while discussing this she became emotional and stated that I didn't call her enough on that trip. Oh! The first time I suspected that something may of happened on the trip I told her that I believe something happened and it was WW111. I was a bastard for questioning her faithfulness.


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## lovelost2soon (Aug 9, 2014)

I'm sorry to say but it sounds like she has had an affair. Why in the world would she ask to meet up with the coworker? And why didn't that raise a huge red flag for you? And it seems that she is trying to put the guilt on you by saying "you didn't call me enough" as if giving herself a reason to believe what she did was right. Usually if you feel it in your gut that something is not right then it's true. Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well, the way you present this is does sound like an affair could have happened. But you had years to find out for sure and you either did nothing or could not actually prove an affair. IT can be pretty easy to find out if an affair actually going on.

I'm not sure what you want to do with your suspicions now. Are you looking to leave the marriage?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Lie detector test.

keep your finance and assets separate and apart.

Prepare for the worst.

Kids?

Next time questioning, remain a bastard and keep the pressure on. Ignore the tears.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

yep she cheated. no doubt. Sorry!


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## code20 (Feb 5, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks guys. I'm not sure as to leave or not. I have two kids that I adore and went through a divorce as a kid so was hoping to avoid. I've also been. Responsible for much of the Childcare so to lnot see them everyday would really hurt.

I decided to leave last year and told her so. She wanted more time to sort it out and volunteered to see counsellor to help her with her bullying behaviour. Since she has been really making an effort but I think I'm done. There has been a lot of other horrible behaviour and general bullying too. 

My next step is to tell her that I can't stay without the truth and the opportunity to start again fresh and rebuild trust. I don't think she'll ever admit. Counsellor agrees. I'm now just trying to get myself strong enough to a) confront her b) move on if needed. 

I guess your perspective helps me believe I'm reasonable to believe she was unfaithful and have the confidence to confront her and stand firm with my accusations. Also to know that if I leave I'm not being unreasonable. After all, my leaving will greatly impact on my kids.

Elegirl, I guess I never suspected till years later after kids came along. I figured it was a brief encounter at the time and I'd live with it. I also realised it was probably ridiculous to think she did. It's only as I discovered more that I realised that something definitely happend and now can't deal with it. I don't trust her and I'm heart broken. As they say, love is blind! Reading my post it's so obvious, but living it, and when the one person you trust the most states that she's never cheated, it's hard to believe it could have happened.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Tell her then you won't mind taking a polygraph then.
Then see her reaction.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tired and hurt said:


> Elegirl, I guess I never suspected till years later after kids came along. I figured it was a brief encounter at the time and I'd live with it. I also realised it was probably ridiculous to think she did. It's only as I discovered more that I realised that something definitely happend and now can't deal with it. I don't trust her and I'm heart broken. As they say, love is blind! Reading my post it's so obvious, but living it, and when the one person you trust the most states that she's never cheated, it's hard to believe it could have happened.


Unless she confesses, you cannot prove her infidelity. Concentrate on what you can prove... the way she treats you.

I hate to bring this up, but you might want to DNA test your children.


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

I guess the thing that hurts the most is her attitude and put downs at the time. She's all nice and supportive now but at the time it was horrible. I was put down for cleaning (I like things clean), I was told I was a ****ing Bastard for giving our baby an early morning feed to give wife a sleep in after she had a big night out at a hens party because she'd have to express milk (breast feeding at the time). I gave up a successful career that I loved to work for myself so that I could choose hours and be the hands on dad while she pursued her career only to be be belittled in front of her family one day for my drop in income. See I didn't see my dad when I was a child, I wanted a chance to do better and be a dad. But everything I did was cause to belittle. 

She claims all sorts of reasons why she was like this and says she's sorry and has improved but I just can't let it go. I've had enough.......but I have two kids that I adore and don't know how I'd survive without them.


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

Elegirl, that's the approach I've taken and that has improved dramatically. Took me to tell her I'm leaving though and to basically not care about her feelings. I still care greatly for her and now feel sorry for her. 

Re DNA test for kids. There's no question there. They look and act like me way too much. They are just too much like me in every way.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tired and hurt said:


> I guess the thing that hurts the most is her attitude and put downs at the time. She's all nice and supportive now but at the time it was horrible. I was put down for cleaning (I like things clean), I was told I was a ****ing Bastard for giving our baby an early morning feed to give wife a sleep in after she had a big night out at a hens party because she'd have to express milk (breast feeding at the time).


HUH? The early morning feed thing sounds odd… did she need to have him nurse because it was painful? 


Tired and hurt said:


> I gave up a successful career that I loved to work for myself so that I could choose hours and be the hands on dad while she pursued her career only to be be belittled in front of her family one day for my drop in income. See I didn't see my dad when I was a child, I wanted a chance to do better and be a dad. But everything I did was cause to belittle.


Was you giving up your career a unilateral move on your part? 


Tired and hurt said:


> She claims all sorts of reasons why she was like this and says she's sorry and has improved but I just can't let it go.


So your wife’s view of thing is always wrong? 


Tired and hurt said:


> I've had enough.......but I have two kids that I adore and don't know how I'd survive without them.


It sounds like you just want out of your marriage and are looking for reasons to not work with your wife. I get that a person can just burn out. But divorce is a very hard thing to go through. It will have devastating effects on your children.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tired and hurt said:


> Elegirl, that's the approach I've taken and that has improved dramatically. Took me to tell her I'm leaving though and to basically not care about her feelings. I still care greatly for her and now feel sorry for her.
> 
> Re DNA test for kids. There's no question there. They look and act like me way too much. They are just too much like me in every way.


I adopted a 10 day old baby boy. He is 24 now. He looks just like me down to the eye and hair color. Growing up people used to always comment on how he looked like me and even had my mannerisms. (They did not know that he was adopted.)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

By the way, you can get DNA test kits at the drug store. It can be done without anyone but you knowing that you are doing them.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Why can't you get primary custody if you are the one doing the day to day caring of the kids ???

Anyway,, if it mean this much,, ploygraph her butt.

She shaved for him, and once it started, she lost all respect for you. 
that my friend was what all the belittering was about.

Tell her poly or D, her choice.

Oh, the waitress thought you was into the **** life, after you talked to her.

Just think, why would a staff member risk her job outing a patron.
She saw something so vile she could not, not say something. BJ or finger action dude. This woman was disgusted with your wife man.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Ele, he now has more info and want the truth.

What puzzles me is your view. 
This was classic cheater script back then.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

OldWolf57 said:


> Ele, he now has more info and want the truth.
> 
> What puzzles me is your view.
> This was classic cheater script back then.


Sure it sounds like a classic cheater script. But there is no proof. This is why getting evidence is so important. It gets rid of the shadow of doubt.

He had suspicions but stayed in the marriage and had children with her. 

OP did not say that he has more info. The suspicion is coming to the forefront now that he is getting to the point of wanting to divorce her.

My point is that if he's so unhappy and she's basically as abusive wife, then he has enough there to leave her. He does not need to try to prove what he cannot prove.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

See your point.
But some come late to what they saw, and if staying is unhealthy, then the kids will suffer more.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

Just call the op, tell him you know everything and are going to out him.

Sit back and watch.

Yeah........get angry. Angry is good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

Firstly, I didn't suspect a thing till we had kids otherwise I'd have left.

Secondly, bullying etc is being addressed. I'm not taking any of it and she's made a huge effort and admitted it. I could get past that if this change was to last. I've made my decision, I'm not taking any crap again. It's the fact that I don't trust her that, try as I have, I can't get past. The only hope of rebuilding this marriage is if I know what happened. It might not work, I might feel worse, I don't know. I do know that I can't continue wondering. It's too painful and humiliating. Besides, I don't think she could ever respect me fully if she knew she got away with it. This alone is enough for me to walk away. I don't want to feel this. The rest of my life is great, good friends, family, love what I do but she makes me feel worthless. Yet, I feel guilty and selfish because of what ending the marriage would do to my kids.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Did she ever shave her pubic hair to surprize you again? Usually women do it to excite their partner. It's a big move. Bigger than lingerie. But obviously not as big as anal. It is possible that OM shaved in her in the bath for fun.

Everything you mentioned screams affair, but it was some time ago. Will be difficult to get a confession out of her.

Have you read MMSLP? 

To preserve your marriage you might try the approach of working on yourself. Would you be content upping your sex ranking and having your wife be more attracted to you?

Are the suspicions of the affair killing your affection for your wife over time? Is this like a chronic disease?

Has your wife improved as person?

Is your sex life good today?

Do you find yourself thinking of other women? What would it be like to have someone who truly loved you? Does you wife truly love you?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I assume you are in your 40's, maybe going into your 50's----as you get older in years, and you have more alone time together----I E: no more work to go to, kids out of the home----you will have a lot more time to think about things----and this will all get much worse---so whether you stay or go----get it cleared up once and for all

You are being given excellent advice, and you need to follow it----bottom line, if you absolutely have to know---make her take a POLY----you do that by going to your local police precinct---as they will give you the best info, on who to use as a poly operator---but no matter what----you are slowly driving yourself loco, so one way or the other get it resolved, as it doesn't look like you are gonna forget about it


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

she shaved her *****, but did not want you to see it? Yeah, THAT makes a lot of sense. 

not sure how to proceed at this time. Sounds like the sex is getting marginally better, and the bullying is decreasing. You have become a successful plan B to her. 

I guess the only way to be sure at this point is the lie detector. Not because they actually work, but because you will be able to see her behavior when you demand one. Does she search online for "how to beat a lie detector" (install a keylogger on the home computer and take off for a few hours after you drop the bomb on her). VAR her car so when she calls her friends to discuss this, you can get some truth out of it.

if it was just this one fling a long time ago, I guess you have to decide if you can live with that or not.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> she shaved her *****, but did not want you to see it? Yeah, THAT makes a lot of sense.



:iagree:


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Pretty much after all this time she's not going to confess, and neither will the OM

Time to draw your final line in the sand, let her know you're at this point and that this is very serious with regards to both your futures in this marriage but lies will not be tolerated. The truth and maybe you can both start to work on this marriage and yourselves. One lie and you're gone.

Then you ask her again about that period. She says nothing happened, then you say good, you have a lie detector appointment, she passes it then she's clear.

Her reaction will be very telling.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

It most surely sounds like she cheated. I think the best tactic would be to call the OM, tell him you know what happened, and want to meet face to face. Be very emphatic you know it happened.

That will probably spin him enough that he'll start apologizing. Then you can quickly ask "how many times" and probably get more info.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

By your first post it sounds like she cheated. Could there be a possibility that the OM has been holding it over her head all this time?


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

Geta poly, 

Ask her and make an apointment.

Whatch the internet search history, if u find "how to beat the poly" or something like that, u will know there os something.

Probably she will confess al last at the parking lot.

In other hand, if she agrees and pass the poly u must belive her and be cool.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP, just because the kids look like you and act like you does not make you the father. Paternity tests are cheap, easy, private and painless. Your wife does not need to participate. It should set you back right around a hundred dollars (at least that is about what I paid in the US for a DIY kit).

Your story sounds like she cheated and she has been hiding it for 20 years. A polygraph or the threat of one is probably the only way you will find out. I would confront her with all of your thoughts prepared and tell her you want her to explain and that you also want a polygraph. Give er one last chance to answer your questions. Follow thru with the poly, but don't be surprised if you get a parking lot confession.

You had enough red flags back at the time. I realize that more flags appeared over the years, but this would have been easier to resolve and get to the bottom of years ago. You are experiencing very similiar results to rug sweeping coming back to bite in the ass.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

FWIW- from my experience, cheaters tend to be extreme liars, capable of weaving incredible tales of complete BS.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> It sounds like you just want out of your marriage and are looking for reasons to not work with your wife. I get that a person can just burn out. But divorce is a very hard thing to go through. It will have devastating effects on your children.


Serious guilt tripping there EleGirl. Very unlike you. From what he described, his wife sounds like a serious emotional abuser. You can sense the deep hurt due to her actions over the years in OP posts. At this point the truth about the infidelity will the straw the broke the camel's back. 

Would you advice a woman the same ? I seriously doubt it.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm sorry, but what waitress would accuse a patron, a stranger no less, of "two-timing" based on two visits? This simply does not happen, unless it's a plot device.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'd suggest you tell your wife that you don't know who she thinks she's bullsh!tting but it aint you. Tell her she has one more chance to spill it and if she gets crazy tell her to save her bullsh!t and leave. Whether she had a full on affair or not she had serious feelings for the guy, that's why she'd cry when you tried something; she wanted him and you repulsed her. That's how women work when they're in love with the other guy; had it been just sex she'd have done both of you. She probably still has residual feelings for him and has romanticized their relationship, all the while keeping you as plan B. Maybe if she cracks you can get counseling and move forward, if that's what you want, but if not you might have to call it a day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Tired and hurt said:


> Firstly, I didn't suspect a thing till we had kids otherwise I'd have left.
> 
> Secondly, bullying etc is being addressed. I'm not taking any of it and she's made a huge effort and admitted it. I could get past that if this change was to last. I've made my decision, I'm not taking any crap again. It's the fact that I don't trust her that, try as I have, I can't get past. The only hope of rebuilding this marriage is if I know what happened. It might not work, I might feel worse, I don't know. I do know that I can't continue wondering. It's too painful and humiliating. Besides, *I don't think she could ever respect me fully if she knew she got away with it.* This alone is enough for me to walk away. I don't want to feel this. The rest of my life is great, good friends, family, love what I do but she makes me feel worthless. Yet, I feel guilty and selfish because of what ending the marriage would do to my kids.


Your situation mirrors mine.

I put up with deceit for 40+ years.

Like you, one day I decided that I would not put up with any crap and demanded full accountability about the incidents. *That was the beginning of the end*, as she would not discuss the past, and resented my new "stand up for myself" attitude. 

Increasing coldness and distance began to be a problem of its own. Something that became a dissatisfier for her, and reduced her need to stay married.

After seven or eight years of this, and after MC in which she lied and convinced the counselor that she was truthful, I moved out. I believe that by this time she had lost all affection for me because my change in attitude (caused by her refusal to acknowledge her betrayal) had brought about a distance to the marriage.

She has never admitted her involvements in spite of a recorded admission from an OM.

_*My decision to separate did not have to do with my WS respect for me. It had to do with my own respect for myself*_, in the face of her contempt for my need for a confession and her remorse.

No confession, no remorse, no respect for my intelligence with absurd lies, no respect for my self-esteem, no concern for my need to know the extent of her betrayal, that equaled my decision to separate.

Two years separated, no change in my WS.

My rug-sweeping because of the kids worked for them then, It has not worked for them now as adults.

If you intend to salvage the marriage, the shock effect of separation or divorce _*may*_ produce the confession that you need to recover. That shock effect will only happen while your wife has some affection for you. The longer you are in a battle of wits with her, the less affection she'll have for you.

If you are contemplating any drastic action to save the relationship, do it now, and suddenly.

I wish you the best.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

1. It is obvious that she has had an affair and put your health at risk for STD's.
2. She is a bully and has emasculated you in the marriage.

IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I realize she has changed as you have put your foot down. But if I were you, I would still expect transparency, now and forever. 

It is pretty nice of you to even consider giving her another chance. 

Maybe she is scared to tell the truth? Sounds like a very weak person. Strong people are open and honest.

In England, do you have to prove adultery? Is that why you're being given advice for a polygraph?

To me, the lack of trust alone seems like grounds for divorce. It is sad about the kids. 

I would really like to see her come clean and humble herself before you. That could possibly be the beginning of the rebuilding of trust.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

intheory said:


> BTW: is "hen's night" British for GNO? I'm guessing by the context.


I hate to break it to you IT, but that's the same thing guys call it in the U.S. ; between themselves of course.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Philat said:


> I'm sorry, but what waitress would accuse a patron, a stranger no less, of "two-timing" based on two visits? This simply does not happen, unless it's a plot device.


This struck me as well.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Philat said:


> I'm sorry, but what waitress would accuse a patron, a stranger no less, of "two-timing" based on two visits? This simply does not happen, unless it's a plot device.


Where did you get the fact there were only two visits? She was there for awhile. I assumed the waitress saw her eating with the om several times and by their actions assumed since they were loving each other up they were married. Then she shows up with a new man(husband) and she thought WW was cheating on the boyfriend. When they said they were married, the waitress knew she was cheating she just didn't know which one was being cuckolded.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Philat said:


> I'm sorry, but what waitress would accuse a patron, a stranger no less, of "two-timing" based on two visits? This simply does not happen, unless it's a plot device.


You do not think the OP is for real?


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Anyone who doesn't believe that this sneaky and untruthful woman hasn't had *numerous* sexual encounters outside the marriage, stand on your head!


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

You already knew the answer when you were writing your post. She wont admit it because you only have lot of circumstantial evidence and the events happened years back. She'll lie until the consequences for keeping the lie are to much to bear. You decide what that is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> Where did you get the fact there were only two visits? She was there for awhile. I assumed the waitress saw her eating with the om several times and by their actions assumed since they were loving each other up they were married. Then she shows up with a new man(husband) and she thought WW was cheating on the boyfriend. When they said they were married, the waitress knew she was cheating she just didn't know which one was being cuckolded.


A waitress a hotel restaurant is not going to accuse a patron of cheating. She's lose her job in a heartbeat.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Tired and hurt said:


> 2 years in to marriage wife regularly traveling for work. *One such trip she is gone for 5 weeks.* Long story short, we chat on the phone most nights and I hear lots about a fellow she's met whose also traveled up there from the same organisation (different office) and they're working together. I know they have dinner a couple of times. I'm not concerned because I'm also traveling for work and with a very attractive woman who became a dear friend of mine/ours, nothing more.
> 
> We had organised that I'd travel up to meet my wife on the final weekend of her stay. I get there, we go to dinner. *The waitress accuses her of two timing. *Wife explains that I'm her husband and the other guy was just a work colleague. Waitress not convinced. I step in and assure waitress that this is true and I'm fully aware That they were having dinner together and all is fine.
> 
> ...


This says it all right here, this entire post is one long RED-FLAG. This behavior is standard cheating wife stuff, very common. Your wife obviously is not a drunken slvt banging strangers, just a (young at that time, but likely continued her cheating) women presented with a better deal than being with you at work. This is called Hypergamy. Women like your wife are one bed-partners at a time people; that why all the crying, changing sex patterns and styles etc. Being a fairly new marriage she saw a better opportunity with this OM, and you were put on the back burner- Plan B. Its hurts and was rug sweep for years, now the pain resurfaced. Most likely this OM only wanted in your wife’s pants on this business trip and nothing more. She 100% obliged him and was his exclusive personal sex partner while they were working away – dinning out in public and living as a couple. You see this behavior all the time in the military. Your wife viewed their bed-play as more serious then he did; she likely got dumped and ignored when the trip ended and just went home. 
Take the time to find out what you want, look around, spend some time alone. This senario happened to me in my early 20s late in college. I dumped her, went to work then later med-school. She kept trying to get back, but I moved on and couldn’t do it. The pain she caused was too deep. She spiraled down – 3 more divorces and now lives in a cheap apartment alone. You probably had many other unexplained ‘behaviors’ in the M since this one that you missed. Trust me they don’t change. Take your time and make sure you want to R after the confrontation. And answer the key question to yourself – Why?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> A waitress a hotel restaurant is not going to accuse a patron of cheating. She's lose her job in a heartbeat.


I must be getting old, at least half the women I know would have called her on it. They would also tell a boss to kiss their behind. And no, they would not use the word a$$.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> I must be getting old, at least half the women I know would have called her on it. They would also tell a boss to kiss their behind. And no, they would not use the word a$$.


I would like to hear a current waitress or waiter here say they would do that.

Most people need their income.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Tired and hurt said:


> Thanks guys. I'm not sure as to leave or not. I have two kids that I adore and went through a divorce as a kid so was hoping to avoid. I've also been. Responsible for much of the Childcare so to lnot see them everyday would really hurt.
> 
> I decided to leave last year and told her so. She wanted more time to sort it out and volunteered to see counsellor to help her with her bullying behaviour. Since she has been really making an effort but I think I'm done. There has been a lot of other horrible behaviour and general bullying too.
> 
> ...


Stop using the word "bullying." Call it "SPOUSAL ABUSE."


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> I must be getting old, at least half the women I know would have called her on it. They would also tell a boss to kiss their behind. And no, they would not use the word a$$.


Sorry, no. No way in the world anyone in the service sector would butt in like this.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

jld said:


> You do not think the OP is for real?


Taking the Fifth, jld.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If it was me, I would have found a way to talk to that waitress and ask her what she saw when your wife was with the so called co worker. Ask if they were acting more like co workers or lovers.

Second thing. If my wife came home from a business trip or if I met her at the city where she's working and she shaved her pubic hair off then telling me it was going to be a surprise, my question to her would be, surprise who? If you wanted to surprise me, you would have done this at home then at bed time show me your baldness.

Third. All these phone calls with some guy saying wrong number. In all honesty it's not a wrong number, it's the wrong person answering the phone.

All in all, your being played big time and one or two other posters suggested a polygraph test and I'm the third.

I would let her know that your making the appointment and she's taking the test. If she refuses then your done. If she fails then your done. 

Don't give her the chance to fire her mouth off at you, just tell her that she has given you nothing but doubt and now it's time for the truth and if she isn't willing then pack up and go.

As far as your child goes, your not going to lose your kid. In most cases it's 50/50 unless your proved to be a bad father. 

And take my word, she'll use the kid to her advantage when she's cornered to make you back down. If I were you I would buy a VAR and carry it you when you. 

The woman has been lying to you for many years and it's time that you make her stop and find out the truth. If not, then expect this to go on until you meet your maker.


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> A waitress a hotel restaurant is not going to accuse a patron of cheating. She's lose her job in a heartbeat.


I caught that as well, sounds like a good smoke screen designed by her to cover up her tracks.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lordhavok said:


> I caught that as well, sounds like a good smoke screen designed by her to cover up her tracks.


What? I understood that some people don't think it actually happened.

OP, are you telling us the truth?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Yes, she cheated. More importantly, she is abusing you. 

Is there anything good about your wife to put in the effort to stay?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The waitress was right.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> I would like to hear a current waitress or waiter here say they would do that.
> 
> Most people need their income.


What about the waiter who refused to serve a family because one of them made a remark (a fairly mild remark, as it happens) about a noisy child with special needs in the restaurant?

That waitress might have had a religious reason for speaking out against adulterers, or maybe her parents marriage had been blown to pieces by adultery?


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## Cacsper (Aug 9, 2014)

Waitress was right man she's cheating on you


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

She's been unfaithful and you know it, my friend. You've been a complete doormat (I don't mean that in a derogatory sense) and let her get away with this. She sounds like a woman with some serious issues.

It's been so long now and over such a long stretch...you need to get the truth, have it confirmed and then decide if you can continue to live with your unfaithful wife.

It sounds to me like she is remorseless and could very well still be cheating. I would tell her you know she's been unfaithful, and when she denies it, tell her you want her to take a polygraph or you'll file for divorce.

I would not want to be married to a woman who treated me the way she treats you, with the cheating, coldness and bullying.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Be strong and stand up for yourself - don't be a doormat any longer. Good luck.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> So your wife’s view of thing is always wrong?
> 
> It sounds like you just want out of your marriage and are looking for reasons to not work with your wife. I get that a person can just burn out. But divorce is a very hard thing to go through. It will have devastating effects on your children.


:scratchhead: ???


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Look up parking lot confession in the search tab concerning a poly.

Read the top link in my signature for how to gather evidence. Unfortunately you are late bur fwiw.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Just tell her she is taking a polygraph.
If she refuses serve her at work and out the om where he works.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> What about the waiter who refused to serve a family because one of them made a remark (a fairly mild remark, as it happens) about a noisy child with special needs in the restaurant?
> 
> That waitress might have had a religious reason for speaking out against adulterers, or maybe her parents marriage had been blown to pieces by adultery?


I think most people could understand not wanting to accept intolerance and insensitivity.

I think what the OP is saying supposedly happened, to most people, would be called _sticking your nose into other people's business. _And considered perfectly acceptable by some in CWI.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Tough one. She sounds like the type who will stand behind her lies no matter what. Only if 100% proof is found will she then admit anything. A poly won't help. Some people believe their own lies and belief in their story is like religion. If she fails a poly she'll just say that they are not 100% accurate (they are not) and she has no idea why she would fail when she's telling the truth.

I certainly don't believe her. Too many red flags and the waitress is the kicker. The pubes on their own, however, are actually explainable. They hadn't seen each other for weeks and he's coming up to meet her at a hotel. Wanting to surprise a guy with something sexual is not out of the ordinary in this situation. Why did she get all funny about it? Well some women (and men) play the victim - if they are not getting along, they try to make their SO feel guilty - "I did this to surprise you and you ruined it" kind of thing.

Since she won't admit to anything, the best you had was the waitress. You can't question her now but i would think about how this unfolded with her. Clearly she thought that the OM was the BF or husband. She saw them together first so this makes sense as she just got it in her head that her and the OM were a couple. When you explained that YOU were the husband, how did her demeanor change? Did she believe that you were the husband and that she was cheating with the OM? Or did she seem to believe that you were the OM? Was her hostility/disgust aimed at you the whole time or at your wife or both? Did her attitude ever turn toward pity for you but continued disgust toward her? For some reason she did not immediately apologize when she knew you were the husband. Frankly this all sounds strange to me.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

jld said:


> I would like to hear a current waitress or waiter here say they would do that.
> 
> Most people need their income.


Not a waiter story but one similar. My wife and I usually go to the same cashier at the grocery store. Over time we have become talkative about life and things. Just casual talk while checking out. One day I did not go to the grocery store with my wife. That day she happened to see her brother in the parking lot. Of course they stopped and talked for some time. The cashier had seen this from the store window. My wife did her shopping and got in the cashiers line like normal. The cashier leans in and asks my wife where I am and who the bald guy is my wife talking too for a long time. My wife cleared up what the cashier was thinking was going on. So, we see that folks in the service industry will talk about things they have observed. I have no doubt the waitress was not shy about what she had seen.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Nosy people exist in fiction. But in real life?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

she shaved her *****, but did not want you to see it? Yeah, THAT makes a lot of sense. 

Yeah as a woman I found that strange.

And if my BF have his balls and didn't want me to see-(he always does) we would have a problem.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

couple said:


> I certainly don't believe her. Too many red flags and the waitress is the kicker. The pubes on their own, however, are actually explainable. They hadn't seen each other for weeks and he's coming up to meet her at a hotel. Wanting to surprise a guy with something sexual is not out of the ordinary in this situation. Why did she get all funny about it? Well some women (and men) play the victim - if they are not getting along, they try to make their SO feel guilty - "I did this to surprise you and you ruined it" kind of thing.


 OK so if their not getting along even though he comes to visit her, then why would she do something like shave her privates if she has no intention of having sex with her husband.

This is so blatant that if I was the guy, there would be no more talking and the next phone call would be to the law office of "Wee Jippem & Howe.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Nosy people exist in fiction. But in real life?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Nosy people exist in real life too. 

The amount of nosy people who call in to our newspaper office with tips they have got by being nosy!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Tired and hurt said:


> e DNA test for kids. There's no question there. They look and act like me way too much. They are just too much like me in every way.


Plenty of guys have said this about their kids only to be proven wrong in the end.

Don't be that guy. Order the tests.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Philat said:


> I'm sorry, but what waitress would accuse a patron, a stranger no less, of "two-timing" based on two visits? This simply does not happen, unless it's a plot device.


Unless, of course, she saw OP's wife slobbering all over OM.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I think the waitress story holds water. I bet the OM and WW stiffed her on a tip...and I bet that came to bite WW in the butt when server saw her return with husband. I worked in foodservice for years...and half of the staff gives no eff.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Unless, of course, she saw OP's wife slobbering all over OM.


She could have seen them acting like husband and wife. Or like boy and girl friend.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op,

Sorry, reading your story it's just so obvious it's unreal. She can't tell you the truth, be there is no truth to tell you. She's lived lies for so long with you she doesnt even know what the truth is probably! Your married life together has been anything but... 

~sammy


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Just tell her she is taking a polygraph.
> If she refuses serve her at work and out the om where he works.


I don't think that's necessary. If the OP feels that he can no longer trust his wife, that marriage is dead. Under no-fault laws one does not need proof of adultery or anything else. If I were in the OP's shoes I'd just file for divorce.

If the WW doesn't want a divorce, she'll have plenty of opportunity to come clean while the paperwork is being done.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

This is the result of years of gas lighting and rugsweeping. That lump in the rug that keeps getting bigger is your resentment building. It's clear that this has been eating you for a long time.

And how do you know that this has been the only time? Are you a Stay At Home Dad (SAHD) now? I see she publicly humiliated you in front of her family for being one, you see a lot of women look down on SAHDs, despite our society being so progressive. Why are you taking all this emotional abuse?

She refuses to admit anything, much less Full Disclosure. Either she takes a polygraph or you initiate divorce proceedings and go for full custody. Otherwise this will continue to poison your soul.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

workindad said:


> You had enough red flags back at the time. I realize that more flags appeared over the years, but this would have been easier to resolve and get to the bottom of years ago.


I had red flags something like 25 years ago, confronted without too much evidence, got rugswept and gaslighted. But, the follow on 25 years got much better, and the sex and relationship now is very good. I personally have decided to burry those old thoughts and only work on the present and future. Will I ever know for sure what happened? No. Can I live with that now, yes. She has shown, thru actions, that she truly loves me.

Now, if I were getting red flags today....it would be a different story. So I guess the decision on what to do depends on what you can live with, what you can forget, and what is going on right now.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

There are a lot of people who believe that if you deny long enough and vociferously enough, the suspicion and distrust will finally "go away."


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Murphy: "I had red flags something like 25 years ago, confronted without too much evidence, got rugswept and gaslighted. But, the follow on 25 years got much better, and the sex and relationship now is very good. I personally have decided to bury those old thoughts and only work on the present and future. Will I ever know for sure what happened? No. Can I live with that now, yes. She has shown, thru actions, that she truly loves me."
Murphy, you should post your story on a thread. Interesting perspective, and might help. This kind of injury takes a loooong time to heal.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tired and hurt said:


> I guess the thing that hurts the most is her attitude and put downs at the time. She's all nice and supportive now but at the time it was horrible. I was put down for cleaning (I like things clean), I was told I was a ****ing Bastard for giving our baby an early morning feed to give wife a sleep in after she had a big night out at a hens party because she'd have to express milk (breast feeding at the time). I gave up a successful career that I loved to work for myself so that I could choose hours and be the hands on dad while she pursued her career only to be be belittled in front of her family one day for my drop in income. See I didn't see my dad when I was a child, I wanted a chance to do better and be a dad. But everything I did was cause to belittle.
> 
> She claims all sorts of reasons why she was like this


What did you expect? You turned into a beta model and women despise beta males. They cheat on them. They lose attraction for them. They belittle them. An alpha male would never allow his wife to belittle him in front of her family.

Not trying to dis you, just educate you. Go read MMSLP and NMMNG. Like, today. It will all make sense. Follow the tenents of those books and you'll have her begging you to forgive her for her affair.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

turnera said:


> What did you expect? You turned into a beta model and women despise beta males. They cheat on them. They lose attraction for them. They belittle them. An alpha male would never allow his wife to belittle him in front of her family.
> 
> Not trying to dis you, just educate you. Go read MMSLP and NMMNG. Like, today. It will all make sense. Follow the tenents of those books and you'll have her begging you to forgive her for her affair.


People here hate the alpha-beta discussion (especially the women) but I have to agree.

OP - You probably did everything you hear on TV that a man is "supposed" to do to be a loving and attentive husband and father. It just so happens that it's everything you're NOT suppose to do to keep your wife interested in you.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

I have to ask, why the hell would you not object to her meeting up with this guy? How can anyone be so naive? I know what my answer would have been. NFW

I get a kick out of this when I see posters say that my spouse went to meet someone from their past, work, etc. and go on to say I didn't think anything of it and act like it was nothing at all and they had absolutely no problem with it, I don't get it. 
I'll tell you what, if my wife ever says to me she wants to meet up with an old friend, or a male friend from work, or whatever, I'd say, sure, bring him over for dinner with us and the kids, we'll see what his true intentions are, if he accepts, then he is probably alright, but at least I can see that for myself, if he or she says no, then that should tell you that the intentions are probably a little different than what you are being told. 

I think most of us would be able to tell right off the bat.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Forest said:


> It most surely sounds like she cheated. *I think the best tactic would be to call the OM, tell him you know what happened,* and want to meet face to face. Be very emphatic you know it happened.
> 
> That will probably spin him enough that he'll start apologizing. Then you can quickly ask "how many times" and probably get more info.


:iagree:

I also think this is your best bet at this point. But no p*ssy-footing around with this, no giving him a chance to call her and get there stories straight. You've got one chance to strike, to blind-side him, hit him hard, and at least get a portion of the truth.

I would call him, state emphatically that you have PROOF (text messages, voice mails, P.I. evidence, pictures, etc.) even though you really don't. Threaten to expose him to his wife or girlfriend (if he has one), work, his boss, etc.

This may be your only chance to nail him. Also, don't call him from your own cell phone as he may recognize the number. And DON'T leave him a message if he doesn't pick up; he will likely NEVER return your call and will immediately call your wife to plot their lies. Even better, if you know where he works, you could go confront hiim in person. You might consider taking a trusted friend as a witness so OM can't claim you harassed or threatened him.

If by chance he does call your wife, this strategy may still work with her. If you tell her you ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING (this is where you have to be tough and wear your poker face) and she has one chance, and one chance only, to come clean, you just may get a tearful confession from her.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

Only confront him if prepared to give him a good shoeing, if confronted and he laughs what you going to do? slink off? put him on his back? when i confronted the other man there was not a lot of talking that's all i'm saying


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr Useless said:


> Only confront him if prepared to give him a good shoeing, if confronted and he laughs what you going to do? slink off? put him on his back? when i confronted the other man there was not a lot of talking that's all i'm saying


Any tips on how OP should behave in prison, should he be sent down for what the US equivalent for GBH is?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Tired and hurt said:


> I'd appreciate some perspective on this.


There are enough red flags to make "any" reasonable spouse suspect cheating - and for those of us who have experience in dealing with it, for us to set the odds high that she has.

You need to make yourself an expert on the stealth monitoring techniques; as you probably should have done some time ago. You can get all the help you need with that on this forum.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Any tips on how OP should behave in prison, should he be sent down for what the US equivalent for GBH is?


Only advice is dont make threats dont even mention him and get him alone no witnesses etc and try his chat then if guy wont break off then man up, or if not your style just tell her to go simple as that for the more passive guys here


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I think it comes down to a decision.

I basically see three paths ahead here:

Path 1: What you have gone through is sufficient for you to divorce. The path here is pretty straightforward... lawyer up, sit the wife down and say "Wife, you've been abusive and obnoxious and done enough for me to be pretty sure you've been unfaithful. I'm not here to debate this with you, I'm here to tell you that we're getting divorced."

Path 2: You're willing to stay with this but you need her help to do so. "Wife, you've been abusive and obnoxious and you're behaviour is suspicious enough to assume you've been unfaithful. I'm willing to stay and work on this relationship but I need you to do X and Y for me to be able to get through this." I would suggest X and Y is some kind of admission of wrongdoing and agreement to transparency.

Path 3: You aren't willing to leave and aren't willing to confront. In this case, keep letting her dominate the story and admit nothing. It won't matter, you'll never know, and you'll also have little to bargain with.

Which path is it? I'm seeing a lot of mixed messages here so it's difficult to respond.


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## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

6301 said:


> I would let her know that your making the appointment and she's taking the test. If she refuses then your done. If she fails then your done.


I wouldn't tell her if she fails then your done. If she is guilty, then under those circumstances she has nothing to gain by going. You will only get the truth if she thinks it is in her benefit. The other advice was all spot on. Just my 2 cents.


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## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

Mr Useless said:


> Only confront him if prepared to give him a good shoeing, if confronted and he laughs what you going to do? slink off? put him on his back? when i confronted the other man there was not a lot of talking that's all i'm saying


Be careful with this - a violent outburst (although warranted) can easily be used against you when custody discussions come up. The beating you put on this dude becomes evidence of your violent nature and why you are harmful to your children.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

One of my trusted advisors had a good take on this. I am in a somewhat similar situation, suspecting an affair in the past but have no solid evidence.

Tell your wife that with the evidence at hand you believe she had an affair. You do not accuse her of an affair, you don't ask her if she had one. You are simply reporting your belief. You are not asking her to defend herself or to explain anything away. The weight of the evidence strongly supports only one conclusion, which is an affair.

Right now you are in a position of believing there was an affair, but you have absolutely zero ability to resolve it to a firm answer of yes or no. Unless she confesses, you will never know with total certainty.

So that is where you are starting from. If you want to rebuild your marriage it has to start from you believing an affair happened. Which means your wife has to be actively involved in rebuilding trust, eliminating pent up resentments, and restoring love.

I think it looks very much as if she had an affair. One possibility is that she intended for an affair with that guy, but then for whatever reason it never happened. Maybe she shaved her privates and she then propositioned him at dinner, but he turned her down. But, the evidence certainly suggests an affair happened. If you presume the worst case, can you see a way forward in the marriage? Can you see staying with her if she never confesses, even though you believe there was an affair? 

Or would an affair be grounds for divorce no matter what? That is certainly a valid position. And if you believe there was an affair, then you are going to have to divorce her if you can't stay with a cheater. Her actions directly caused you to believe an affair happened. You are not at fault for believing it happened, whether or not it did.

Ele Girl brought up something back on page 1 which bears repeating as a question. Are you looking for a justification for divorcing her? Would finding out with certainty that no affair happened, would you feel very good about the marriage?

What about all the other bad behavior? Do you have in your mind a line in the sand on what is acceptable for you to continue in the marriage? Is it bad enough now that if it does not improve substantially that you cannot remain?


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

waylan said:


> Be careful with this - a violent outburst (although warranted) can easily be used against you when custody discussions come up. The beating you put on this dude becomes evidence of your violent nature and why you are harmful to your children.


You're right it can be a bad move but we all react differently and i shouldn't have confronted him and should have expected him to push me away and laugh in my face, final straw that broke the camels back as they say


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Do you have contact information on the OM? Contact him but expect nothing but denials. But VAR (voice activated recorder) the house and your wife's car and see if she gets a call from him. Even a one sided conversation can be telling.

Can you also check her email/texts to see if they are still in contact?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Tired and hurt said:


> Thanks guys. I'm not sure as to leave or not. I have two kids that I adore and went through a divorce as a kid so was hoping to avoid. I've also been. Responsible for much of the Childcare so to lnot see them everyday would really hurt.
> 
> I decided to leave last year and told her so. She wanted more time to sort it out and volunteered to see counsellor to help her with her bullying behaviour. Since she has been really making an effort but I think I'm done. There has been a lot of other horrible behaviour and general bullying too.
> 
> ...


Yes, they will bully if they are with someone else and your kindness and love all this time has been taken advantage of.

Here goes the deal. She probably IS cheating. You might simply get rid of her on the principle that it's just not working out and it's been some time.

However since you are currently in the position you may as well find out what is really going on.

On TAM we have a standard investigation procedure:

1. VAR's - voice activated recorder. Get a pen var for her purse and one in her car. Cheaters will talk to people who are in that cheating world with them in the car. She might even call the lover right after she leaves the house in the morning or before she gets home.

2. Keyboard loggers - keyboard logger on computers you have access to and on cell phone if you can.

3. Cell phone spy app. You will be able to get GPS location, access to texts and calls made, pictures, even engage the camera and microphone remotely.

4. Get passwords to her accounts. Check her social media and email accounts. The key logger will get the passwords. Alternatively a router can log packets and you can find it that way.

5. Hire a PI.

6. Talk to people in those social circles. It was suggested the PI is a female. 

You can get the info, it takes time. With the VAR you will get information in the first several days. Be patient as you collect the entire picture.

You will feel better about it all when you understand what is really going on and you can cut it out of your life.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Let me clear up something.

If you have no criminal record, or have not been arrested in more than 5 to 7 yrs, chances are you will NOT be going to prison

Now, serious injury with a weapon may override that, but in our justice system, even the injury would have to be life threatening.

NOT telling you to do this thou.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Iver said:


> Do you have contact information on the OM? Contact him but expect nothing but denials. But VAR (voice activated recorder) the house and your wife's car and see if she gets a call from him. Even a one sided conversation can be telling.
> 
> Can you also check her email/texts to see if they are still in contact?


*The Bait and Trap does work.*

I used a spin of this with my wife's OM2. I emailed him (as her) from her "dead" secret email and he admitted to the truth about the affair and details that his wife never believed from me. He actually responded within an hour of the 1st send. Tooooo Easy.

I played him for a couple of weeks and then sent the whole "confession" to his wife. Vindictive? I could care less... still do. 

No "free ride" regarding affairs.


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

Thank you for everyone that has posted. I'm finding the amount of replies overwhelming and the emotions involved are making it difficult for me to reply but I do appreciate the advice given. Thank you again.


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

Philat said:


> I'm sorry, but what waitress would accuse a patron, a stranger no less, of "two-timing" based on two visits? This simply does not happen, unless it's a plot device.


This did indeed happen. I knew they were having dinner together sometimes but i now wonder what else was going on to make them appear a couple and to provoke such a strong reaction from the waitress.


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Where did you get the fact there were only two visits? She was there for awhile. I assumed the waitress saw her eating with the om several times and by their actions assumed since they were loving each other up they were married. Then she shows up with a new man(husband) and she thought WW was cheating on the boyfriend. When they said they were married, the waitress knew she was cheating she just didn't know which one was being cuckolded.


Actually, this is something that I hadn't considered. I just always assumed waitress realised I was the husband. I never considered that I may have been perceived as the OM. It makes more sense plus the suspected OM was much older than myself and in much poorer shape. The waitress probably thought she was fooling around with a younger guy.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Tired I'm sorry you are hurting. This limbo sh!t has to stop.
Are you just going to ask her for a polygraph?
Thanks for coming back and venting.
If everything is okay now get some ic but this triggering you are going through will give you ulcers.
Take care.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

You know the truth. Time to admit it to yourself.

What are you going to do with it?


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Tired I'm sorry you are hurting. This limbo sh!t has to stop.
> Are you just going to ask her for a polygraph?
> Thanks for coming back and venting.
> If everything is okay now get some ic but this triggering you are going through will give you ulcers.
> Take care.


Not sure what I will do yet. I've returned to study and working on my career at the moment. It's keeping me extremely busy with work, looking after kids and study but it's something I've always wanted to do. Plus, I've had the chance to get out and meet new people and make new friends. I'm almost finished so am hoping to see how I feel after this. 

It's given me back my confidence which was almost totally gone. I'm feeling good about myself again. The problem with this is now I can't believe the crap I dealt with and let happen to me and realise there's a better life out there. Would be easy decision except for kids.

I do need to hear the truth and that she's genuinely sorry. I just don't think it will happen. I'm even now thinking that this may not be enough now anyway.

Thanks for support and advice. I have been getting IC from a councillor she suggested (the one I took us too wasn't the right one apparently) and he said some very encouraging things to me this week in regards to my character and stated not to doubt myself.


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

jim123 said:


> You know the truth. Time to admit it to yourself.
> 
> What are you going to do with it?


True but not sure what to do yet. Just trying to look after kids and myself and get in a better and stronger mindset then make a decent decision.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Polygraph and/or ask her one more time BUT have online divorce papers in hand.
And just for good measure, tell the om's fiance.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

One last thing PM a mod named Deejo please go in the members list you will find him.
I think he is a therapist by trade whether mc I don't know.
He has a way with words and is very knowledgeable in my opinion.
Do it.
Okay Deejo did you send the check yet?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Trust your gut. If your gut screams she cheated, then she most likely did. The truth will surface eventually.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Polygraph and/or ask her one more time BUT have online divorce papers in hand.
> And just for good measure, tell the om's fiance.



:iagree:

Absolutely. If she knew wouldn't you want her to tell you?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You mentioned comments and actions by friends also indicated something went on. Could you explain that comment?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Tired and hurt said:


> It's given me back my confidence which was almost totally gone. I'm feeling good about myself again. The problem with this is now I can't believe the crap I dealt with and let happen to me and realise there's a better life out there.


You're not the first one to wonder why he put up with all the crap for so long! Just don't beat yourself up for it. Use it as a positive motivator to have good healthy boundaries in the future.



Tired and hurt said:


> Would be easy decision except for kids.


That is a common but flawed thought process. I stayed for the kids ever since the first one was born 25 years ago. Things went downhill really fast after she was born, and after about a year I was ready to D. But I didn't want some other man raising my daughter. Ironically it would never have been an issue because my wife never would have had another man in the house. She was sexually abused as a child and thus was super protective of the kids.

So there is lesson 1: Your reasons for staying may be based on totally false assumptions.

As my wife learned, for me the overriding priority was to not break up the family. She learned I would put up with anything to avoid D.

Lesson 2: You lose all power to effect changes within the marriage. You also lose all power within the family. Your prime directive is to not D. Which means you cannot really have absolute limits. You avoid confronting big issues because they could lead to D. You won't confront small issues too strongly because then they could become big issues which could lead to D.

If you cannot have a good marriage, the family will be dysfunctional. The kids might be far better off with D. At least one house will be healthy (maybe even both), as compared to spending 100% of their time in a dysfunctional home if you don't D.



Tired and hurt said:


> I have been getting IC from a councillor she suggested (the one I took us too wasn't the right one apparently) and he said some very encouraging things to me this week in regards to my character and stated not to doubt myself.


ALWAYS trust your gut. You're the only person you know you can trust.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Thor said:


> ...As my wife learned, for me the overriding priority was to not break up the family. * She learned I would put up with anything to avoid D.
> *
> 
> Lesson 2: You lose all power to effect changes within the marriage. *You also lose all power within the family. Your prime directive is to not D. Which means you cannot really have absolute limits.* You avoid confronting big issues because they could lead to D. You won't confront small issues too strongly because then they could become big issues which could lead to D.


Before being cheated on, if I would of read this kind of talk, I would of just passed it off as some strange off-base logic.

Funny how things are... once it happens to you, it suddenly becomes very personal. Don't be confused with Thor's logic here. He's not saying that D is the "Absolute Limit". Rather, if you cannot accept that there are Absolute Rules (fidelity) and the failure to adhere has consequence, then the marriage is just a façade, an illusion. 

I personally will never accept being powerless, 2nd tier, walk-on, in my marriage ever again. My fww knows that D is not a possibility but an absolute.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Thor, your post (#110) is very insightful. Unfortunately that came with a heavy price. Hopefully others appreciate that.


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