# I think I'm jealous of my sister in law



## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Maybe not just my partner's sister, his family in general , .

I haven't quite vocalized to him that I get annoyed when his family is coming to town. Which just so happens to be primarily during the holidays and off and on throughout the year. If he really thought about it and put two and two together he's probably figured that out by now. We live in his family's house. They recently bought the home and are all paying it off. His mom lives with us but his two sisters live in another country. When his sisters visit, they stay at the house. Sometimes the married one stays with her husband. It creates a problem because he has to chauffeur everyone around and ends up spending all his time out on the road with them. Sometimes I come along for the ride but it drives me nuts because it's 3 women at one time, and it's so many errands, and he gets cranky and I also get cranky and its back and forth on the road then home then road jesus. 

He has two older sisters. The oldest has a 1 1/2 year old daughter. The second is a doctor, I'm convinced she's a little higher than normal on the aspergers spectrum. She's the one that demands a lot of my partner's attention. This past holidays I felt really frustrated that he spent so much time doing what she wanted to do. Today is the 3rd day in a row he's had to take her to local spots that she really wanted to visit on her trip. These places are hours away though, and require being on the road all day. I do get to sit in the front of the car with him so there's some closeness but it's hard to get to converse with him. I feel like I'm interrupting the conversation between him and sisters because it's stuff from growing up etc. 

I went along with him and both sister on the 1st day, the 31st. She wanted to do a food tour. We left home around 11am I believer, and got back around 10pm. As the day got closer to an end I admit I got increasingly annoyed. I didn't want to spend what little money we had on her food tour, I didn't want to bring in the new years being exhausted from all this driving, I wanted to party, get some quiet time with my partner. 

Yesterday he went alone with doctor sis. Older sis and the baby, myself and mom stayed home. Same thing today. He had asked me yesterday to come with him today and I told him I would think about it. When he got back at about 11 last night we talked about the situation a little bit. I admitted to him that I feel like I'm put on the backburner when the fam is around. He said that you know he doesn't get to see them often. I told him I decided not to go tomorrow because I know I would just be in a bad mood. He said he could respect that. Around midnight he convinced me to head out to a chill spot with him. There he said he knew I didn't feel comfortable around doctor sis, and that older sis felt the same way towards doctor sis. That doctor sis was abrasive. I told him doctor sis isnt the main issue, the issue was me feeling like we don't get enough alone time together.

This morning I felt even more jealous knowing he would soon be leaving for the day with doctor sis again. He asked why I was being withdrawn. I said I wasn't happy about not spending time with him. He stayed close and held me for a little while. I could see he was disappointed. I thought about it right after and decided screw it, this is the time I'll get so make the best of it. While he was showering I told him ok I'll come along. He smiled, he was happy. 

He said yeah he doesn't understand why I was feeling a bad way, he thought everything was good since we already talked about things yesterday. I ask him how could the brief conversation last night really solve the problem. He asked me, didn't we spend time alone last night? Ughh I felt so frustrated I cried right then. He has insinuated in the past that I require too much dialogue. That some things are common sense and should not require explanation. But uh how do I get over my jealousy and resentment overnight after a few minutes of conversation. I'm astounded that we're experiencing the situation so differently.

He comes back and says he's sorry for neglecting me. I tell him I appreciate the thought. I think he's just saying that because he thinks it's the right thing to say, not because he really feels that way. 

I feel really bad about it but right before he left today I apologized and told him I changed my mind. Deep down I really did not want to go, so why bother. I'd rather enjoy time home than be jealous on trip with doctor sis. It's back to work tomorrow and there's still work to be done around the house so better to use the time and be rested rather than jealous and miserable all day, come home late at night and be tired and rushing to get things ready for the morning. 

I'm still reading through His Needs, Her Needs and Awareness. The latter has helped me to see that I am somewhat dependent on my partner for my happiness. Part of the reason is because I have no friends or family in this country and part of it must have to do with some other insecurities I haven't quite figured out yet. Does anyone have suggestions on literature that could help me figure out how to be a little less jealous of my partners time with his family. And how to truly communicate to him how I feel and understand his perspective. I know I need to take control of the communication exchange since he doesn't see the value. Just haven't figured out how to without thinking that i sound whiny or overly demanding.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Just a little bit more to add. While I admit to my jealousy/emotional dependency, I don't think it's ok that he allows himself to be relegated to the role of chauffeur when his family is around. 

I asked him if he was planning on driving his sister around even when he had a family and they're both much older and he said yes. I'm not sure if he was being serious or was just annoyed with me for asking that question. Either way, they're all adults and both sisters drive so their reliance on him seems a little excessive.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Your not married to him, are you?


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

We're not married. However we're been together for 6 years, I moved in with him 5 months ago.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Out of curiosty, if you were to estimate, how many days a year would you say you have them as guests in your home (SIL's).


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Any kids with him?

Why can't sister in law rent a car when they are in town?

Giving a quick ride here and there is one thing, but acting like a professional chauffeur for 12 hours a day is unreasonable. That said, if your boyfriend doesn't mind, what can you do?

I always say- If you aren't married then you don't need to tolerate much, if anything, you find unacceptable. Don't like it? Walk away.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

It's hard to estimate how many days since I haven't been there very long. In the past when I visited it was usually around holidays. Since I moved in, the eldest sister has visited once before this time. 

I had the same experience last Christmas. Feeling jealous of the amount of time spent driving everyone to do their errands. 

The doctor sis, he refuses to let drive. He thinks she's clumsy and likely to end up in an accident. Never mind the fact that she drives herself around when she's on her own, back at home. She's never had an accident. I thought it was sweet of him at first but now I think its overprotective. 

Yes it's true he doesn't seem to mind so I know I'm the one that needs to figure out how to deal with it internally. He does get cranky by the end of the days when he's running errands however because things are not coordinated and its a lot of driving up and down and traffic etc. 

I overheard an argument between him and doctor sis yesterday. She had asked about their today's trip and yesterdays and he indicated that they had never fully agreed on today's. And that he wanted to postpone yesterday's trip to today. Also that he would not have agreed on both yesterday's and today's trip because it mean being on the road all day for 3 days in a row and that was too much for him. But she went on about how she had already told their grand aunt that they would be visiting yesterday and also that they did in fact agree on today's trip and that this was the only thing she asked for was to take her around etc. He stood his ground but eventually backed down. It was right after that he confirmed that he would be heading out (we had just sit down to watch a movie) and asked me to accompany them today. 

So to some extent he's not ecstatic about it but in general yes, he doesn't mind.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

No kids. 

I'm not ready to give up on the relationship just yet despite my complaints. I really just need some better tools to deal with this kind of situation as it's going to be an issue in my mind whenever his family visits.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> No kids.
> 
> I'm not ready to give up on the relationship just yet despite my complaints. I really just need some better tools to deal with this kind of situation as it's going to be an issue in my mind whenever his family visits.


I appreciate that (not wanting to give up on him).

If she is perfectly able to drive then she should. That said, I think it's just a matter that he uses the car as an excuse to spend time with them. And that's fine. There are worse things than a guy who loves his extended family. But be communicative to him- honey I know you don't get to see them often and I'm glad you like to spend time with them. But let's set aside XX time just for the two of us (a dinner, date, quiet afternoon, etc)

Plan before they visit, so time is earmarked for the two of you.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So we're talking this happens what, 7 days out of the year?


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Thanks @ PhillyGuy13, that is a great suggestion. Seems so obvious and practical now that I think about it.
@Livvie it's more often than that. The thing is it doesn't just happen with his sisters. Thankfully I was out on both of these occasions but it was the same story when his uncle/cousin visited earlier this year and his friend from college who visited twice this year. They all stayed at the house here. They paid for gas and he drove them around wherever they wanted to go. It was an issue because he was MIA (online/phone as we were long distance then) most of the time during the weeks they spent at the house. 

It's also an issue with his mom because he also has to drive her around and fulfill her errands which are often requested at the last minute and with what I've felt like is little consideration of his time. So in truth we do not spend as much private time together as I'd like on a daily basis between work, caring for his 4 dogs, and running errands for his mom/the house. 

He promised me before I moved here that we would take some time alone and go somewhere quiet for a couple of days. We haven't been able to do that in the 5 months because he just doesn't have the time. Although I'm certain if I ask him about it he'll say it's because we haven't had the money. But there's lots we can do without much money. So I guess a situation like that adds to my jealousy towards his sis. On friday he called me during work to say he was taking the rest of the day off to take the sisters to a restaurant that doc sis wanted too visit. The place was 1 1/2 hours away. I honestly cannot see him agreeing to take me that far just to sample a menu. I said to him it was excessive, he said they said it was supposed to be a really cool spot and he doesn't get to see them often.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

We moved across the USA when I was young. Since we moved somewhere much nicer than where we were from, we ended up hosting a lot of company. These people were not blood relatives. Yet, my parents always welcomed everyone, and did act as a tour guide over and over again. We went to the same places that everyone who visits our state want to see and endless amount of times. It was maybe 10% of the time that our guests rented a car. We took them all everywhere. My parents were VERY young and poor back then, so they could never afford to stay at a hotel near the attractions. Instead they did multiple long day trips like you describe. That is what my parents viewed as good hospitality.

Your boyfriends siblings are coming from another country, and for a short amount of time. They want to spend their time with their brother who they miss. They also go through a lot of expense to get to visit him. Driving is different in different locales, let alone different countries. 

You've only been living with him for 5 short months, and you are already annoyed and jealous. It sounds to me like your boyfriend is a good man, son and brother. He seems very family oriented. Men that treat their female siblings and mothers well, become some of the best husbands. These are qualities that many women look for in men. This is one of the ways your boyfriend is showing hospitality. 

Having to share your boyfriend with his family, for what equates too a fraction of your life, is part of being adults in a relationship. 
Since it clearly bothers you so much, it really isn't fair to lead him on. This will end with a ultimatum "pick your family or pick me." He's a nice guy, and he doesn't deserve to be put through that. Set him free, for a wonderful family oriented woman to find.

You will have no problem replacing him with someone who doesn't care at all about his family. My guess is that someday you will reflect back on "what could have been" had you not put so much focus on yourself. If you truly love him and don't want to lose him, you need to understand that acting this way will ruin a good thing. Then change your perspective, AND how you react to his families visits.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

I really do appreciate that he is a family oriented guy, I am too and he's told me that's one of the things he's attracted to the most about me. 

I've accepted that him, his mum, his dogs and the house is a package deal. I have a harder time with his sisters because they're both adults, both drive, both older than he is and the eldest has her own family. Her husband doesn't drive her around at all even when they both visit. It's hard to accept that that's ok. That a few days ago he had to stay up late to pick up his sister after her reunion party. Why doesn't her husband pick her up, why can't she get a ride back home with the same friend she's heading to the party with? 

Their visits do cost yes, but this is their home country and they're not just visiting to spend time with him. Whether he was here or not, they would still come home to this island. It's hard not to be jealous when I feel that we don't get much private time in general but I hear you @Spicy, this is my problem and I need to change my perspective.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I appreciate that (not wanting to give up on him).
> 
> If she is perfectly able to drive then she should. That said, I think it's just a matter that he uses the car as an excuse to spend time with them. And that's fine. * There are worse things than a guy who loves his extended family. *But be communicative to him- honey I know you don't get to see them often and I'm glad you like to spend time with them. But let's set aside XX time just for the two of us (a dinner, date, quiet afternoon, etc)
> 
> Plan before they visit, so time is earmarked for the two of you.


I don't know about where you all are from, but in my neck of the woods your parents and siblings are considered immediate family, not extended. If this were a discussion about her H going out once a week with the boys we'd see a lot more people saying "let him have some guy time" but a few days a year with his sister (and he invites W along btw) is a bridge too far? 

OP, did you see this kind of behavior in him during the last 6 years you've been together?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Keke24 said:


> I really do appreciate that he is a family oriented guy, I am too and he's told me that's one of the things he's attracted to the most about me.
> 
> I've accepted that him, his mum, his dogs and the house is a package deal. I have a harder time with his sisters because they're both adults, both drive, both older than he is and the eldest has her own family. *Her husband doesn't drive her around at all even when they both visit. It's hard to accept that that's ok. That a few days ago he had to stay up late to pick up his sister after her reunion party. Why doesn't her husband pick her up, why can't she get a ride back home with the same friend she's heading to the party with? *
> 
> Their visits do cost yes, but this is their home country and they're not just visiting to spend time with him. Whether he was here or not, they would still come home to this island. It's hard not to be jealous when I feel that we don't get much private time in general but I hear you @Spicy, this is my problem and I need to change my perspective.


The driving her around seems like a legitimate complaint. What is the reason that you in-laws don't get a rental? (I can think of a few valid reasons, but that would certainly be projection on my part as none are likely)



> The doctor sis, he refuses to let drive. He thinks she's clumsy and likely to end up in an accident. Never mind the fact that she drives herself around when she's on her own, back at home. She's never had an accident. I thought it was sweet of him at first but now I think its overprotective.
> 
> Yes it's true he doesn't seem to mind so I know I'm the one that needs to figure out how to deal with it internally. He does get cranky by the end of the days when he's running errands however because things are not coordinated and its a lot of driving up and down and traffic etc.
> 
> ...


Treating your adult family like children.... that sounds familiar. Does this describe your husband's childhood much?


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

@Kivlor The dynamic within his immediate family is a bit dysfunctional. The only thing I can recall that stuck out to me in the beginning was the amount of time spent on the phone with his sisters. They would catch up for hours at a time even when I was visiting (this was before he moved back home and we were both in the same country as his sisters. I was concerned back then that he was a bit of a mama's boy but I brushed that aside.

The link you shared does indeed describe his childhood. His father left the family when he was just a boy and never returned as promised. His mother raised them. From what he's told me, she was always angry, quick to spank and ridiculed him in particular on occasion when she wasn't happy with him. It seems some of the most traumatizing experiences he had with his mom occurred when she would hit him without warning and without explaining to him what he'd done wrong, often times in front of others. There was no structure and little instruction regarding keeping the house in order, mom expected the kids to figure out what needed cleaning and do it before she got home otherwise there would be trouble,

They were left to fend for themselves with regard to food. Meals were never consistent and to this day breakfast is still completely ignored, lunch ends up being cooked around 4 and dinner, if it happens, takes place way after hours. (This must be linked to why whenever we have issues, his way of expressing his concern for my well-being is by asking me if I've eaten or surprising me with sweets). Whenever he talks about his best times with family, it almost always centres on food/snacks e.g. his mom preparing lots of food for his birthday or his sister getting him all of his favourite snacks for school. He says his oldest sister took care of them but at some point he felt the need to take over after a brief conversation with his father who told him that in his absence, he's the man of the family and must look after his mom and sisters. 

He's the glue that holds everyone together. They all have difficulty communicating with their mother. His sisters rarely do. And on top of that they all have an issue with the doctor sis. She's abrasive, not in any way empathetic and just seems illogical in her thinking in general. This is why I think she may be higher than normal on the aspergers spectrum. Things have improved since I've come in the picture however. He's more patient with his mum now and tries to avoid losing his temper with her. While meals are still erratic, we make a point of eating together on Sundays despite the obvious awkwardness resulting from communication issues with mom. 

His behavioural response to difficult situations indicates some residual issues from childhood. He almost always gets defensive and sees my expression of dissatisfaction with his behaviour as an attack. He also does this thing where he lowers his voice and sounds like he's pleading, like he's so confused as to what he's done wrong and feels overwhelmed that he can't do anything right. He comes across as a scared child. It was worse in the beginning however, he would cover his face with a pillow and not say anything whatsoever. His response to stuff I bring up is almost always that he hates that I'm not happy, he doesn't want me to feel that way.

He's such a macho guy and has a big ego. I've brought up my observances of his child-like response and the practice of him bringing me/his mom sweets (I try to eat healthy and stay away and I'm concerned at his mom's age/health he should offer healthier alternatives) but he hasn't really taken me seriously.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

@Kivlor, doctor sis does not get a rental because he does not want her to drive. He says she's too clumsy. 

I'm not sure about older sis/her husband. Her H almost always visits together with her as he's also from this country but he stays at his house and there's very little interaction after that. Sometimes she and the baby stay with him, most time she stays with us. It's clear that their marriage is not 100%. Both she and her H drive and there's a vehicle at his house that he uses whenever they visit. However I'm not quite sure why he's not more involved in her and the baby's welfare when they're here. 

So by now it's become an established expectation that there's no need for rentals as he is willing to drive them around whenever they come home.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Keke24 said:


> @Kivlor The dynamic within his immediate family is a bit dysfunctional. The only thing I can recall that stuck out to me in the beginning was the amount of time spent on the phone with his sisters. They would catch up for hours at a time even when I was visiting (this was before he moved back home and we were both in the same country as his sisters. I was concerned back then that he was a bit of a mama's boy but I brushed that aside.
> 
> The link you shared does indeed describe his childhood. *His father left the family when he was just a boy and never returned as promised*. His mother raised them. From what he's told me, she was* always angry, quick to spank and ridiculed him in particular* on occasion when she wasn't happy with him. It seems some of the most traumatizing experiences he had with his mom occurred when* she would hit him without warning and without explaining to him what he'd done wrong, often times in front of others.* There was no structure and little instruction regarding keeping the house in order, *mom expected the kids to figure out what needed cleaning* and do it before she got home otherwise there would be trouble,
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response Keke, I’m bolding a bunch of the statements that really stand out to me here. What you have is a SO that has been terribly abused. It’s going to show as your relationship continues. What I’d like to do is discuss some of these issues, from what I think will be something akin to your H’s perspective (I was heavily parentified) to help you get a grasp of this, and then hopefully make a well-informed decision on how you’d like to proceed. 

So first, your H lacked a present male authority in his life. In that absence, his mother resorted to violence and ridicule whenever he was “out of line”—a status that she left undefined. Punishment was swift, it was meant to humiliate, and it was not explained, but rather seemed to hover over you SO like the Sword of Damacles, always waiting to fall.

The children were expected to keep the house clean, but the standards weren’t “standard” in any sense, they were left unknown. Again, the Sword of Damacles looms. If that’s not enough, your SO’s father did turn up, but only to tell your SO that he must fill the role of father and husband to his own mother—something a child cannot hope to do, or even properly understand. 

Now, your SO has a duty that has been laid on him—keep the family together, be father to the sisters, husband to the mother. So naturally, he does whatever he thinks necessary to fill the gaps in every trouble, he seeks to smooth over every misunderstanding and conflict—he has to keep them together, it’s his job, it’s his duty. He’s a good son, and a good son would do these things…

So, now we enter into your relationship, and you find that he doesn’t take criticism well—not that he lashes out in anger, but the opposite, it brings him to tears. Whenever you criticize your SO, he’s almost certainly feeling the terror of that Sword of Damacles hovering over him. He is waiting for you to threaten to leave if he doesn’t make you happy. He’s waiting for you to turn violent and lash out without explanation. Every time you bring something up (rightfully) as a concern or criticism, he feels that he is failing in his job as your SO—the same job he’s always had: keep the family together. Every argument is likely an existential threat. 

Now regarding your relationship with this man, you can either end it, or try to find a way to make things work out for the better. If you choose to remain in a relationship with this man, you’ll have your hands full for a while, inasmuch as it is going to take some time for him to heal, if it is possible. He needs counseling with someone who is familiar with parentification / emotional incest. We’re not talking a couple of meetings either, we’re talking a couple of years most likely.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> I don't know about where you all are from, but in my neck of the woods your parents and siblings are considered immediate family, not extended. If this were a discussion about her H going out once a week with the boys we'd see a lot more people saying "let him have some guy time" but a few days a year with his sister (and he invites W along btw) is a bridge too far?
> 
> OP, did you see this kind of behavior in him during the last 6 years you've been together?


A thousand pardons if I used the wrong term. I meant extended meaning not spouse or kids (one's own household). I think my point was pretty clear, apologies if it wasn't to you.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Keke24 said:


> @Kivlor, doctor sis does not get a rental because he does not want her to drive. He says she's too clumsy.
> 
> I'm not sure about older sis/her husband. Her H almost always visits together with her as he's also from this country but he stays at his house and there's very little interaction after that. Sometimes she and the baby stay with him, most time she stays with us. It's clear that their marriage is not 100%. Both she and her H drive and there's a vehicle at his house that he uses whenever they visit. However I'm not quite sure why he's not more involved in her and the baby's welfare when they're here.
> 
> So by now it's become an established expectation that there's no need for rentals as he is willing to drive them around whenever they come home.


Okay. Good news is that this is a fixable problem. Bad news is that it's not as easily fixed as some would think. The answer is simple: H needs to say "Sis, I can't wait to have you all back over. But next time I can't be driving you everywhere." The problem is that this goes against every nerve in your H's body. Every impulse in his mind is screaming "NO!!" when he thinks about having a conflict with his family. It would be a betrayal of his duty.

To get a better view of your H, would you be willing to answer (from your knowledge of his childhood) what is his ACE score? (It's a 10 question, Yes or No) From what I can tell he is at least a 4. (I'm an 8)


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> A thousand pardons if I used the wrong term. I meant extended meaning not spouse or kids (one's own household). I think my point was pretty clear, apologies if it wasn't to you.


I'm not trying to be pedantic. I think I explicitly described what I disagree with in your statement. It is generally viewed as a good thing to have a strong relationship with your parents and siblings. Having close-knit families is good for child-rearing. Going out with your sister (and inviting your W to join you) to have food and visit family for a few days a year is a way more desirable behavior than going out with the guys for drinks. This isn't the problem Keke has in her relationship, and it's not a hill worth dying on. Heck, it's not a hill worth bothering to take.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> I'm not trying to be pedantic. I think I explicitly described what I disagree with in your statement. It is generally viewed as a good thing to have a strong relationship with your parents and siblings. Having close-knit families is good for child-rearing. Going out with your sister (and inviting your W to join you) to have food and visit family for a few days a year is a way more desirable behavior than going out with the guys for drinks. This isn't the problem Keke has in her relationship, and it's not a hill worth dying on. Heck, it's not a hill worth bothering to take.


I guess I don't see it then because you bolded the part where I used the term extended family. You said you don't consider that extended but immediate family. That's fine. I said it was a good thing he is close to the family and we seem to agree so not sure what the problem with the post is.

So please tell me what part you explicitly disagree with? Thanks.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Okay. Good news is that this is a fixable problem. Bad news is that it's not as easily fixed as some would think. The answer is simple: H needs to say "Sis, I can't wait to have you all back over. But next time I can't be driving you everywhere." The problem is that this goes against every nerve in your H's body. Every impulse in his mind is screaming "NO!!" when he thinks about having a conflict with his family. It would be a betrayal of his duty.
> 
> To get a better view of your H, would you be willing to answer (from your knowledge of his childhood) what is his ACE score? (It's a 10 question, Yes or No) From what I can tell he is at least a 4. (I'm an 8)



Based on my responses on his behalf, he got a 5. I'm not sure what that means however, I've never come across this test.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

@Kivlor, you've given me a lot to think about. I've long considered the possibility that his childhood experiences impacts his relationships today in both positive and negative ways, but not quite to this extent. 

I'm not even sure how to broach the subject as he's not really one of the sensitive types and comes from a background and culture that has little understanding and appreciation of mental health, and the impact of past experiences on current behaviour. Although now that I think back I recall him admitting that he thinks his father not being around must have had some effect on him but he's not sure how as he can't identify any signs of it in his current life beyond him making the decision to be the opposite of what his father turned out to be. He's satisfied that he's a good guy, has ambition, plans to further his education, wants to settle down, would never choose to be away from his children and has no interest in running around with various women. 

I've been hoping that he would read His Needs, Her Needs to delve into a more deeper understanding of relationships, emotions and mental health in general. I'm lost as to how else to break through to the macho exterior and ego so that we can have productive conversations about our relationship, our future, our pasts, and our dysfunctional families.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Keke24 said:


> @Kivlor, you've given me a lot to think about. I've long considered the possibility that his childhood experiences impacts his relationships today in both positive and negative ways, but not quite to this extent.
> 
> I'm not even sure how to broach the subject as he's not really one of the sensitive types and comes from a background and culture that has little understanding and appreciation of mental health, and the impact of past experiences on current behaviour. Although now that I think back I recall him admitting that he thinks his father not being around must have had some effect on him but he's not sure how as he can't identify any signs of it in his current life beyond him making the decision to be the opposite of what his father turned out to be. He's satisfied that he's a good guy, has ambition, plans to further his education, wants to settle down, would never choose to be away from his children and has no interest in running around with various women.
> 
> I've been hoping that he would read His Needs, Her Needs to delve into a more deeper understanding of relationships, emotions and mental health in general. I'm lost as to how else to break through to the macho exterior and ego so that we can have productive conversations about our relationship, our future, our pasts, and our dysfunctional families.


The ACE's score is about some very concerning correlation between answering Yes to those questions, and mental health, physical health, suicide risk, aggression, addictive tendencies, etc later in life. People with a score of 4 are twice as likely to be smokers and 7x's more likely to be an alcoholic, 4x' more likely to have emphysema and chronic bronchitis, and 12x's more likely to commit suicide than those with <3. An ACE score of 6+ is correlated with a 20 year decrease in life span. 

What we see is that people who have very adverse childhoods (such as your SO) are likely to indulge in addictive and unhealthy behaviors in order to drown out the pain of their childhoods. They often lack healthy coping strategies. These are things that will have to be learned (or unlearned in the case of bad behaviors). I asked because this information can be useful to you later. 

Things like HNHN are probably a great idea for your relationship. Has he been very receptive to reading and working on it?

There's no "good" way to try to break through his "macho" exterior. It's a complete facade. What has to happen is he is going to need to learn, accept and behave as if it's okay for him to not be perfect around you--which is about his problems, and isn't your fault. I'm a fan of direct methods. If I were in your shoes, and did try just being straightforward, I'd try to be as gentle as possible. Start with "Hey, I want to talk about some concerns I have..." and then try to word them in as least accusatory ways as possible. "When I see you [chauffeuring your sister] it concerns me because [it seems like you are treating her like a child, not the grown adult she is.]" No matter how upset or agitated he gets, don't let it get you upset.

Limit the conversation to a couple items at at a time that way you don't snowball him. No one likes feeling like they're being persecuted, and he's more likely to feel that way than most. Try not to turn any of it into a "I'm jealous of your time with [family member]" because that's not likely a winning strategy with someone who views/treats their family as their children. Make it about the behavior, and make it reasonable. If you have an issue with a family member, it needs to be addressed in ways that don't make it seem you're just jealous, and instead voice reasonable concerns about their behavior or the way they treat him. Like: "It concerns me when [family member] expects you to [behavior] because it seems like they are treating you like a resource instead of a son/brother/etc and I love you and want them to treat you like a family should."


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Does the doc sis drive when she is home? 
There needs to be a balance. It's fine to drive them to a few places but when they are hours away all day everyday that's a different story. 

I think that he drives them because he wants to go with them and hang out with them. And he probably wants to hang out with them with you as well. I get that you want your own alone time with him though. 
The feeling of jealous is normal. I think that you will eventually get use to it. On one side he doesn't see them often so you can "suck it up" and put on your positive pants and make the best out of the limited time they are there and understand he is going to spend the majority of his time with them. Or you guys can come up with a compromise, do what you want with them but reserve 1hr a day with me and I get your undivided attention. Or whatever. You need to talk to your bf and come to an understanding. I don't know if a book will help you.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> The ACE's score is about some very concerning correlation between answering Yes to those questions, and mental health, physical health, suicide risk, aggression, addictive tendencies, etc later in life. People with a score of 4 are twice as likely to be smokers and 7x's more likely to be an alcoholic, 4x' more likely to have emphysema and chronic bronchitis, and 12x's more likely to commit suicide than those with <3. An ACE score of 6+ is correlated with a 20 year decrease in life span.
> 
> What we see is that people who have very adverse childhoods (such as your SO) are likely to indulge in addictive and unhealthy behaviors in order to drown out the pain of their childhoods. They often lack healthy coping strategies. These are things that will have to be learned (or unlearned in the case of bad behaviors). I asked because this information can be useful to you later.
> 
> ...


He's not interested in reading it and hasn't opened the book since I shared it with him a month ago. I did have some success with the questionnaire however. He was clearly annoyed when I suggested it but by the time we were done and had discussed each other's top needs, he actually said "this was a really good idea". I think he really does enjoy the feeling of empowerment that comes with learning something new about me, us and how to make things work better. He just doesn't quite put in the effort necessary to learn. He thinks my time of this site is wasteful and is more akin to spending time on the popular social media sites, that I should read more important stuff like news stories and updates on financial markets.

Thanks so much for the advice. I will be straightforward and gentle and plan my approach in advance, being careful to address only a few topics at once. I'll save discussion of the issues with family visits for later, after I've been able to break the ice with less contradictory topics.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Keke24 said:


> He's not interested in reading it and hasn't opened the book since I shared it with him a month ago. I did have some success with the questionnaire however. He was clearly annoyed when I suggested it but by the time we were done and had discussed each other's top needs, he actually said "this was a really good idea". I think he really does enjoy the feeling of empowerment that comes with learning something new about me, us and how to make things work better. He just doesn't quite put in the effort necessary to learn. He thinks my time of this site is wasteful and is more akin to spending time on the popular social media sites, that I should read more important stuff like news stories and updates on financial markets.
> 
> Thanks so much for the advice. I will be straightforward and gentle and plan my approach in advance, being careful to address only a few topics at once. I'll save discussion of the issues with family visits for later, after I've been able to break the ice with less contradictory topics.


I hope some other people can come along who might have better implementation strategies than me. Do let us know how things go. Feedback is good for everyone. 

At some point you might want to discuss ACEs and Parentification with him. I don't know how to get him there, I came to it on my own, and didn't have anyone to say "You were terribly abused and it was wrong!" and I don't know how receptive I'd have been to such things. I'll dig around for some resources on that, and see if I can find you some. 

At some point, if he's going to overcome this he is going to have to come to grips with what it is, and why it's bad. Maybe someone else here has a good idea on how to broach that.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Does the doc sis drive when she is home?
> There needs to be a balance. It's fine to drive them to a few places but when they are hours away all day everyday that's a different story.
> 
> I think that he drives them because he wants to go with them and hang out with them. And he probably wants to hang out with them with you as well. I get that you want your own alone time with him though.
> The feeling of jealous is normal. I think that you will eventually get use to it. On one side he doesn't see them often so you can "suck it up" and put on your positive pants and make the best out of the limited time they are there and understand he is going to spend the majority of his time with them. Or you guys can come up with a compromise, do what you want with them but reserve 1hr a day with me and I get your undivided attention. Or whatever. You need to talk to your bf and come to an understanding. I don't know if a book will help you.


There's no denying he enjoys spending time with them but the errand days are definitely duty. He hates the constant driving up and down and is always cranky by the end of the day. When the repetitive requests come he'll go into silent treatment mode and get real curt, even I feel bad about his response to them in that moment. It does force them to get more organized and waste his time less, to avoid upsetting him further.

The day-long excursions less so but I think there's also some aspect of him feeling like it's his duty. If doctor sis asks to go somewhere and it doesn't happen she'll make comments about how sad and depressing her visit is and will emphasize that by sitting around for hours doing nothing and staring off into nothing. I say it's duty because he always comes across cool places he's been or wants to visit through his job, but he doesn't ever want me to mention them in his sister's presence. He knows she will be interested and wants to avoid her asking to visit. 

Also, part of the reason he asked me to come along with him&doctor sis yesterday and the day before, is because elder sis did not want to go as she can only stand being around doctor sis for so long. Him and doctor sis often get into small arguments and he's said that he's the only person that's willing to put up with her.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Your husband is the problem. He needs to stop feeling responsible for them. If doc sis can drive at home she can drive here. He is an enabler. I'm exhausted for him, but he is the only one that can put a stop to it.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

It sounds like your true issue here is the lack of quality time together. You're focusing on the wrong thing here by getting jealous of his sisters. You need to address the real problem. There's nothing wrong with wanting to spend time with family who visit a few days out of the year. Whether he drives them around or not. That's his choice. But you need to sit him down and find a solution to the quality time issue. Set up a date night. It doesn't have to be expensive. Or it can even be something simple like setting up an evening stroll every day together.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Update

Recently, I asked him to sit and talk. Although his body language indicated he was dreading it, he agreed to talk that evening. I had him read the 'Intimate Conversation' chapter of HNHN and we shared what we found new/interesting and the conversation killers from each other.

I deliberately avoided the topic of his sisters' visit as I'd prefer to discuss it after hearing more about his childhood experiences, the resulting overwhelming sense of duty etc. We talked about my need for quality time however and how he feels consumed by the finances. I acknowledged that that burden was indeed placed on him by mom/sisters and inquired as to how I could be of more help. I also clarified that in addition to that not being fair, it was not very practical as it meant things would go haywire if something were to happen to him. We agreed that moving forward we would do things my way by budgeting, documenting everything appropriately and utilizing spreadsheets to stay on top of everything. 

He shared some more details about his childhood, his sense of responsibility for ensuring everyone's well-being and the need to mediate communication among his siblings and mother. He confirmed that: he feels ultimately responsible for the success of our relationship; takes it very personally when I'm not happy; feels down and thinks that he can't do anything right when I ask to sit down and talk about our issues. We explored how these behaviours can be counter-intuitive and some of the unforeseen impacts they've already had.

All in all, a very insightful conversation. By the end we were both visibly relieved and in much better moods. I plan to initiate the conversation again in the next 2 weeks and thereafter. He said the chapter was "eye opening". This seems to be a more effective approach to get him to read the literature than expecting him to do it on his own time. I'm most satisfied that this was a clear indicator to him that communication is critical at times like these and just because I want to talk about issues doesn't mean I'm planning on ripping his head off.

Thank you everyone for all of your insight and suggestions. Everything shared here was helpful and allowed me to look at things differently. A special thanks to @Kivlor for a spot on analysis.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Keke24 said:


> Update
> 
> Recently, I asked him to sit and talk. Although his body language indicated he was dreading it, he agreed to talk that evening. I had him read the 'Intimate Conversation' chapter of HNHN and we shared what we found new/interesting and the conversation killers from each other.
> 
> ...


Hey Keke, I forgot to respond to this. I hope things are improving further, and I'm glad--and sad--I wasn't off the mark. Glad I was giving you the right advice, sad that I was correct, because it's a rough thing to deal with.

I hope to see more updates from you, and I really hope that you guys continue to improve your marriage. 

Best wishes--Kiv.


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