# No need for physical contact?



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

My wife has made it clear that she doesn't need or want sex anymore. Not even physical touch, I don't understand it. I'm very giving and patient, soft, gentle, firm whatever...but she can't even tell me what feels good and she literally just lays there without a moan or word. We've been married 18 years and the last 4 have been awful in the bedroom. I'm feeling such a heavy depression because I feel like the ugliest guy in the world. We split up house work, both have good jobs, a house and wonderful children. I've told her so many times how I feel, even come right out and have said "I need you, today, maybe tonight after kids go to bed"? She always seems to dodge me. Everyone says affair but I really have no way of knowing. I don't know what the hell to do.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Well, what does she say when you ask her what's going on?


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Was she into sex earlier in the marriage, or has she always been sort of "blah" about it?


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

All women want to be wanted, but the more you actually want them, the less they want it with you. 

So then, how does one make a woman want it? One thing is for sure, as a man you can NOT be needy. Start with that...

Badsanta


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

napsternova said:


> My wife has made it clear that she doesn't need or want sex anymore. Not even physical touch, I don't understand it. I'm very giving and patient, soft, gentle, firm whatever...but she can't even tell me what feels good and she literally just lays there without a moan or word. We've been married 18 years and the last 4 have been awful in the bedroom. I'm feeling such a heavy depression because I feel like the ugliest guy in the world. We split up house work, both have good jobs, a house and wonderful children. I've told her so many times how I feel, even come right out and have said "I need you, today, maybe tonight after kids go to bed"? She always seems to dodge me. Everyone says affair but I really have no way of knowing. I don't know what the hell to do.


Wife's age?
How does your wife treat you in other way?


----------



## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

If you really want to resolve this then find yourself a therapist and start going alone. Let her know when you are going. This won't take long to resolve if the problem is as simple as you describe.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html
see the link above, standard methodology to catch a cheater.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

She already got from you all she wanted the family, nice house, nice job. She's just bidding her time till she finds something better. The best that you can do now is dump her before that happens.


----------



## UnicornCupcake (Dec 8, 2016)

Attraction is important and it CAN change. What do you look like NOW? Even if nothing has changed (physically) maybe what she finds attractive has?


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Could there be a health issue? Menopause? Depression? Or could she resent you for something and instead of putting her big girl pants on and telling you, she's punishing you by withholding sex?

Either way, this situation is not sustainable and is very unfair to you. Tell her clearly that she is betraying the marriage vows, you cannot go on like this and you are going to counselling. Book an appointment and go alone if necessary.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There are some very esoteric medical reasons for not wanting touch. Unfortunately, all are far worse than menopause or lack of desire....


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

napsternova said:


> My wife has made it clear that she doesn't need or want sex anymore. Not even physical touch, I don't understand it. I'm very giving and patient, soft, gentle, firm whatever...but she can't even tell me what feels good and she literally just lays there without a moan or word. We've been married 18 years and the last 4 have been awful in the bedroom. I'm feeling such a heavy depression because I feel like the ugliest guy in the world. We split up house work, both have good jobs, a house and wonderful children. I've told her so many times how I feel, even come right out and have said "I need you, today, maybe tonight after kids go to bed"? She always seems to dodge me. Everyone says affair but I really have no way of knowing. I don't know what the hell to do.


*Being somewhat blunt here, but to hell with "an affair." Go for a divorce!

Her treatment of you is nothing short of uncaring, disrespectful, and unloving!

She either graciously accepts that she has a mental/physical problem and readily seeks help for it! Or you find yourself a good family attorney to advise you of your legal/parental rights!

A loving, married life was never meant to be lived that way!*


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Please give us a timeline of when things going down hill, also if you can tell start around that timeframe....changes in her, new maybe, losing weight, socializing more....paint us a picture. Thanks


----------



## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

the devil is in the details as always


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

File for divorce. That should get a response from the dead fish, good or bad. IMO, 99% chance you'll be happier and better off if you split up sooner rather than later.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In a couple weeks we're spending 5 days in Washington DC without children (renew wife's passport can only be done in person at their expletive deleted embassy). 

I'm making the travel arrangements and what do you know, wifey requested a room with two beds 😁.

It's mind boggling to what levels someone will bury their head in the sand.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NapsterNova,

No one can help you - without your active participation in this thread. So I will lock the thread tomorrow morning absent further posts from you. 

After that - if you wish to carry on with this topic - either PM me - or create a new thread titled: request to have my earlier thread unlocked





napsternova said:


> My wife has made it clear that she doesn't need or want sex anymore. Not even physical touch, I don't understand it. I'm very giving and patient, soft, gentle, firm whatever...but she can't even tell me what feels good and she literally just lays there without a moan or word. We've been married 18 years and the last 4 have been awful in the bedroom. I'm feeling such a heavy depression because I feel like the ugliest guy in the world. We split up house work, both have good jobs, a house and wonderful children. I've told her so many times how I feel, even come right out and have said "I need you, today, maybe tonight after kids go to bed"? She always seems to dodge me. Everyone says affair but I really have no way of knowing. I don't know what the hell to do.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Well, what does she say when you ask her what's going on?


 she says that with the kids, work, chores, she has nothing left to give. She goes out with friends often and I pull double duty with the kids and chores.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Was she into sex earlier in the marriage, or has she always been sort of "blah" about it?


 she was always shy and taught that sex was dirty. We were young when we fell for eachother and she was a virgin. We had some truly fantastic sex though. We would sneak out to motels and have marathons litterally until she would get dehydrated from cumming so many times.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

badsanta said:


> All women want to be wanted, but the more you actually want them, the less they want it with you.
> 
> So then, how does one make a woman want it? One thing is for sure, as a man you can NOT be needy. Start with that...
> 
> Badsanta


 this one I don't get. I don't beg but rather show her in other ways like breakfast in bed or take the kids out someplace for her to chill. I'm not groveling at her feet.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Steve1000 said:


> napsternova said:
> 
> 
> > My wife has made it clear that she doesn't need or want sex anymore. Not even physical touch, I don't understand it. I'm very giving and patient, soft, gentle, firm whatever...but she can't even tell me what feels good and she literally just lays there without a moan or word. We've been married 18 years and the last 4 have been awful in the bedroom. I'm feeling such a heavy depression because I feel like the ugliest guy in the world. We split up house work, both have good jobs, a house and wonderful children. I've told her so many times how I feel, even come right out and have said "I need you, today, maybe tonight after kids go to bed"? She always seems to dodge me. Everyone says affair but I really have no way of knowing. I don't know what the hell to do.
> ...


 we are both 40. I'm snipped and she has a ring so no more kids here. She's super critical of me eventhough I bust my ass trying to balance work, home, kids. It's like, all the work would totally be worth it if we could just get it on once in a while.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

napsternova said:


> she says that with the kids, work, chores, she has nothing left to give. *She goes out with friends often* and I pull double duty with the kids and chores.


I was leaning away from extramarital activity until I read this. She has no energy for sex and yet she has sufficient energy to get dressed and leave the house while you are babysitting and you do not see this as problematic? I think it would be in your best interest to verify which "friends" she is going out with and what venues they are frequenting.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

LOL, I have been corrected once before for calling watching you kids "babysitting" She has stated that she needs to get out once in a while so I figured it's no problem. Yeah it's tough keeping twin 4yr olds and a 7yr old occupied and put to bed but again figured hey, it's the least I can do. I don't go out much anymore, I am actually too tired after work but still take care of household business.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Then she goes on and on, "I hate my body, blah, blah, blah" I tell her all the time how good looking she is. She wears those leggings that drive my f'ing crazy cause they are so hot. I tell her what she does to me looking that good but I swear she could care less. Man, I don't want to divorce, I really don't but I need to change something to get her to love me again. I fix up the house whenever needed, build furniture if we cannot afford new stuff, I just refinished our kids dressers and nightstands. It sucks cause I'm also a Type 1 Diabetic and suffer from Idiopathic Hypersomnia (severe daytime sleepiness that I take meds for) and I just want to have fun with my wife. wft


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Sounds to me like your wife doesn't want to have sex with you because she's not in love with you. How much time do you two spend together? Do you date her, talk to her, meet her other needs? Women usually need conversation and quality time with their spouse to feel like having sex. Men usually need sex and recreational companionship to feel like having conversation, showing interest, etc. Sounds like you work hard to provide for her. That's probably need number 1 for her. But maybe take a look at her other needs and talk to her- tell her you want to make her happy, ask what she needs. And let her know that you're unhappy because you need to have sex with her. Give it 3 weeks of need-meeting, and see if she's able to meet your needs. If not, let her know that this is not going to work for you. Ask her if it could be hormone related. If so, there are treatments she can look into, but let her know that it needs to be a priority for the sake of your marriage. Bio-identical hormones can greatly increase a woman's sex drive if it's related to menopause, and it could very well be the reason (unless you're not spending time dating her and just trying to get her to have sex with you).


----------



## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Sounds like another case of the OP being too much of a nice guy and expecting to get different results by just doing more. Have you read the No More Mr. Nice Guy text OP? What about practicing the 180? What about His Needs Her Needs? Do you know her love languages?


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Keke24 said:


> Sounds like another case of the OP being too much of a nice guy and expecting to get different results by just doing more. Have you read the No More Mr. Nice Guy text OP? What about practicing the 180? What about His Needs Her Needs? Do you know her love languages?


Yes, I have read about the love languages and hers are; Words of Affirmation (I listen to here when she wants to tell me about her day or wants an opinion. I show genuine interest), Quality Time (not so much as we are always mad at each other), and Acts of Service (take over more chores, take kids to the show, watch them on weekend nights so she can go out. I certainly have). She is involved in a work from home side business as well so I do everything I can to keep the kid at bay.

I'm sounding pretty perfect but am far from it but I am really trying to be everything she wants/needs. I just wish I could figure it out. We see a marriage therapist and she gets pissed anytime they "side" with me. Sooner or later she going to sleep with someone else, the writings on the wall.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> I was leaning away from extramarital activity until I read this. She has no energy for sex and yet she has sufficient energy to get dressed and leave the house while you are babysitting and you do not see this as problematic? I think it would be in your best interest to verify which "friends" she is going out with and what venues they are frequenting.


Eh, maybe. He should certainly verify, but the energy issue isn't necessarily a thing.

People have time and energy for things they want and prioritize.....just like when people say they don't have time or energy to exercise it's usually because it isn't a priority to them.

Sex with him isn't something she wants or prioritizes.

Why that's the case is another matter.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> Sounds to me like your wife doesn't want to have sex with you because she's not in love with you. How much time do you two spend together? Do you date her, talk to her, meet her other needs? Women usually need conversation and quality time with their spouse to feel like having sex. Men usually need sex and recreational companionship to feel like having conversation, showing interest, etc. Sounds like you work hard to provide for her. That's probably need number 1 for her. But maybe take a look at her other needs and talk to her- tell her you want to make her happy, ask what she needs. And let her know that you're unhappy because you need to have sex with her. Give it 3 weeks of need-meeting, and see if she's able to meet your needs. If not, let her know that this is not going to work for you. Ask her if it could be hormone related. If so, there are treatments she can look into, but let her know that it needs to be a priority for the sake of your marriage. Bio-identical hormones can greatly increase a woman's sex drive if it's related to menopause, and it could very well be the reason (unless you're not spending time dating her and just trying to get her to have sex with you).


We both have decent careers, she actually makes more and has better hours. Home at 3:30, summers off, etc. Her hormones are supposedly normal according to her bloodwork. If she allows herself to be loved she can get really turned on by me. She doesn't do it herself, from what she's said.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

napsternova said:


> We both have decent careers, she actually makes more and has better hours. Home at 3:30, summers off, etc. Her hormones are supposedly normal according to her bloodwork. If she allows herself to be loved she can get really turned on by me. She doesn't do it herself, from what she's said.


How much quality time do you two get without the kids? And does she go from work to pick up the kids and manage all of their afterschool stuff (homework, snacks, driving to practices, packing lunches, etc.)? Do you two go on dates? Do you talk 1:1 with her? 

For many women, feeling turned on really starts outside the bedroom.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> How much quality time do you two get without the kids? And does she go from work to pick up the kids and manage all of their afterschool stuff (homework, snacks, driving to practices, packing lunches, etc.)? Do you two go on dates? Do you talk 1:1 with her?
> 
> For many women, feeling turned on really starts outside the bedroom.


True and good point. We don't get any quality time without the kids except for maybe once every couple months we'll get out to dinner without them. Only one is in school and I get her lunch ready and get her to the bus. I grocery shop, cook, fix snacks, put them to bed with her help as our twins are a handful. The divide between us is making us avoid each other. I'm not kidding when I get blamed for every single thing wrong that happens. Even when she goes out I sorta worry because it's a crazy world out there and I would like a text message once in a while.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

In my opinion you are doing too much. Marriage should be 50/50. She's taking advantage and has relegated you to doormat status. Your passivity hasn't helped.

Read "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF download.

Go online and check your phone bill


----------



## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

I'm taking a class called "The Science of Happiness". Taught out of UC Berkley, available for free on the website edx.org. I really encourage everybody who is interested in understanding themselves, their partners and humanity better to take it.

We just finished a section on physical touch.

Turns out we NEED it. The joy hormone oxytocin is released any time we touch another human - unless there's a reason to fear them, e.g., sleazy looking guy in a dark alley. The US and Britain have become lawsuit-happy and touch is rare.

The professors reported a study in which they observed pairs of people interacting at coffeehouses. They focused on couples that appeared not to be romantically involved, but just friends, and included same-sex friends and opposite-sex friends. How often did they touch? In Britain and the US, never. In France, 80 times per hour. In Puerto Rico, 150 times per hour. They didn't list statistics for elsewhere, but claimed the US, Britain and Germany were the only three places they could expect that in an hour, people might not touch.

The power of touch was first noticed in the 1940s...premature babies are known to have poor immune systems. Therefore, they'd be placed in incubators, fed through IV tubes, and nobody could touch them for fear of infection. The mortality rate was 90%. At some point, one hospital said "these poor newborns are only going to live a few weeks anyway, let's comfort them by holding them. Nurses began holding the babies, and the mortality rate dropped to 10%.

Thus, touch is literally "the touch of life".


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

napsternova said:


> My wife has made it clear that she doesn't need or want sex anymore. Not even physical touch, I don't understand it. I'm very giving and patient, soft, gentle, firm whatever...but she can't even tell me what feels good and she literally just lays there without a moan or word. We've been married 18 years and the last 4 have been awful in the bedroom. I'm feeling such a heavy depression because I feel like the ugliest guy in the world. We split up house work, both have good jobs, a house and wonderful children. I've told her so many times how I feel, even come right out and have said "I need you, today, maybe tonight after kids go to bed"? She always seems to dodge me. Everyone says affair but I really have no way of knowing. * I don't know what the hell to do*.





napsternova said:


> we are both 40. I'm snipped and she has a ring so no more kids here. * She's super critical of me *eventhough I bust my ass trying to balance work, home, kids. It's like, all the work would totally be worth it if we could just get it on once in a while.





napsternova said:


> We both have decent careers,* she actually makes more and has better hours*. Home at 3:30, summers off, etc. Her hormones are supposedly normal according to her bloodwork. If she allows herself to be loved she can get really turned on by me. She doesn't do it herself, from what she's said.


To answer the first question, What you should do is go out and buy yourself a very nice Fly fishing Rod. The potential for time use in that hobby is pretty much unlimited. You will have to learn technique and biology and maybe even extend into tying. There will always be need for more money for tools and supplies and trips. There will always be some hobby work to do that needs quiet time.

Second quote: Super critical means she is looking for thing to find wrong. That indicates either a adversarial mindset, or a competitive one. Competitive you can deal with. Adversarial well she is just trying to find a big enough fight to break up over.

Third quote. This can lead to two outcomes. One is that competitive thing. She is constantly trying to prove that she is better than you. You don't strike me as a one upper so maybe you celebrate her victories with her. The other possibility is Loss of respect. This will be the death of attraction. If she is thinking "He can't even keep up with me, what kind of a man is he?" then she will not be attracted to you in any way.

So what does this have to do with buying a fishing pole? First it gives you a place where you can excel with out threatening her. Second it gives you an excuse to get a fair share of the "out of the house away from the kids" time, and that equal sharing makes you look stronger. And last it makes you interesting. It makes you more than her support staff. It gives you depth. These things build attraction. Now fly fishing is certainly not the only activity that could serve those ends. Many of the men here indulge in hobbies of many kinds. Find something that need significant time and investment. But don't choose something with a fixed schedule. I see that time struggle as the big battle here. She isn't going to want to return your weekends to you.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Eh, maybe. He should certainly verify, but the energy issue isn't necessarily a thing.
> 
> People have time and energy for things they want and prioritize.....just like when people say they don't have time or energy to exercise it's usually because it isn't a priority to them.
> 
> ...


QFT.

Read this several times, OP.

Those who want to find a way.

Those who don't find excuses.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So she goes on girls night out while you stay home with the kids, and you don't go out with the guys ever? And you don't go out as a couple? She's a cold fish in bed, tells you she doesn't want sex ever, and refuses to discuss it? She has no medical issues barring sex, is fit and attractive?

You need to see a lawyer stat and have D papers done up and tell her that she either stops the GNO and figures out what's wrong with her in the bedroom, or you're gone. End of story. You're being FAR too nice here, dude.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Napster,

Your wife isn't too tired for sex, she doesn't want to have sex with you. Much of the reason for that lies in her 'super critical' comments. Sounds like a big respect issue. 

The only chance of fixing your sex life, is by fixing your marriage. And that requires you to be brutally honest about you, her and the dynamic between you. It will be a painful process. But it is the only process. 





napsternova said:


> we are both 40. I'm snipped and she has a ring so no more kids here. She's super critical of me eventhough I bust my ass trying to balance work, home, kids. It's like, all the work would totally be worth it if we could just get it on once in a while.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What is a 'ring' and, if it's birth control, why does she have one if you're snipped????


----------



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Physical contact produces the hormone Oxytocin whose job is to emotionally bond you to your wife. No contact, no emotional bonding and you end up living your life as either two friends or two people who tolerate each other for the sake of the children or to avoid the hassle of a divorce and all that goes with it. Last time my wife said that she did not want sex so much anymore, I told her that I can understand her reasons but I assume it meant that I could find it elsewhere. She knows that I can and have done so before so we now have sex once or twice a week which is pretty good for senior citizens.

I might stay with a wife like yours if I liked her and she liked me but I would tell her that I have sexual needs that if not met, will force me to leave or at best, cheat on her. So it would be to our advantage to open up the relationship to prevent us from parting.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

this has affair written all over it.

You need to come home from work, change into your nicest duds and just leave. Come home about 1/2 an hour after you normally come to bed. Don't tell her where you are going or what you are doing. Do whatever you like, see movie, watch the NCAA tourney, whatever. Her reaction will tell you what you need to know.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

napsternova said:


> True and good point. *We don't get any quality time without the kids except for maybe once every couple months we'll get out to dinner without them. * Only one is in school and I get her lunch ready and get her to the bus. I grocery shop, cook, fix snacks, put them to bed with her help as our twins are a handful. The divide between us is making us avoid each other. I'm not kidding when I get blamed for every single thing wrong that happens. Even when she goes out I sorta worry because it's a crazy world out there and I would like a text message once in a while.


I'd start here. A woman needs her husband's time, attention, and conversation in order to feel "in love" and want to have sex with him. How old are your twins? They are too young for school? And your wife works full-time? Sounds like overwhelm to me. You're doing a lot to help ease the burden for sure, but without quality time, that's not enough to meet her emotional needs (though it is enough to show her you're pulling your weight and expect to have your needs met too).


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You complain that there is no sexual intimacy between you and your wife. But there is no non-sexual intimacy either. And that does not seem to phase you. Most women need a good amount of non-sexual intimacy to desire sex. What is non-sexual intimacy? It's spending time together, just the two of you to doing things where you are focused on each other.. AKA quality time and dating.

It takes a minimum of 15 hours a week of quality time to keep the bond strong, and thus passion strong, in a marriage.

The connection/bond between the two of you is broken. There are two books that help you figure out how to rebuild it in your marriage.

"Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs" 

Read them in that order, do the work that they say to do.

Then sit your wife down and tell her that you will not live in a marriage where there is no intimacy... that's both non-sexual and sexual intimacy. Ask her to read the books and do the work with you.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

It is really hard to get her attention anymore. She's so consumed with her skincare "side business" that time doesn't even exist. We have a therapy session tonight. I'm trying to figure out how to say wtf? This really sucks, all day long I think about what the heck can fix our situation and get back to being happy with one another. When she initiates a conversation, I drop what I'm doing to give her my full attention but when I start a convo she hardly listens. So preoccupied with anything other then me. As far as importance goes, kids, bills, side business, but whoops, I didn't make the list.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

napsternova said:


> It is really hard to get her attention anymore. She's so consumed with her skincare "side business" that time doesn't even exist. We have a therapy session tonight. I'm trying to figure out how to say wtf? This really sucks, all day long I think about what the heck can fix our situation and get back to being happy with one another. When she initiates a conversation, I drop what I'm doing to give her my full attention but when I start a convo she hardly listens. So preoccupied with anything other then me. As far as importance goes, kids, bills, side business, but whoops, I didn't make the list.


Use therapy time tonight to talk about how you want to come up with a plan to schedule 20 hours/week of quality time with her, and brainstorm fun things you two can do together, as well as childcare logistics. Dr. Harley in His Needs, Her Needs says that it takes 20 hours of quality time a week to fall back in love with your spouse. In fact, he won't even counsel couples who say they can't make this time because no matter what else you do, it simply won't work if you two aren't getting enough fun time together to meet the most important intimate needs: conversation, recreational companionship, affection, and sex. I understand you can't get your wife on board yet with the last 2, but you might find that within weeks of spending fun time together like you did while you were dating, you two fall back in love and your wife will once again be interested in having sex with you.

* also want to add that now may not be the right time for a side business. Your wife has a full-time job and young twins and another child in school. No wonder she doesn't have any time left for you! I'd discuss this issue with your MC as well. You need to agree on adding any extra activities and it sounds like her plate is already completely full without adding a side business.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> Use therapy time tonight to talk about how you want to come up with a plan to schedule 20 hours/week of quality time with her, and brainstorm fun things you two can do together, as well as childcare logistics. Dr. Harley in His Needs, Her Needs says that it takes 20 hours of quality time a week to fall back in love with your spouse. In fact, he won't even counsel couples who say they can't make this time because no matter what else you do, it simply won't work if you two aren't getting enough fun time together to meet the most important intimate needs: conversation, recreational companionship, affection, and sex. I understand you can't get your wife on board yet with the last 2, but you might find that within weeks of spending fun time together like you did while you were dating, you two fall back in love and your wife will once again be interested in having sex with you.


I am going to take this advice and run with it. Thank you so much!


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

napsternova said:


> I am going to take this advice and run with it. Thank you so much!


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

napsternova said:


> It is really hard to get her attention anymore.


This is EXACTLY why you need to do something drastic. That is the ONLY way you will get her attention. Being 'nice' isn't going to cut it.

If you are not willing to blow things up, then we really can't help you here. If you're not willing to take the bull by the horns and do something that tells her in NO uncertain terms this is important to you, why would she ever think it IS important to you??



napsternova said:


> She's so consumed with her skincare "side business" that time doesn't even exist. We have a therapy session tonight. I'm trying to figure out how to say wtf?


Is there some reason that you can't just say exactly that? WHAT THE ****. Capitals and all. STOP being NICE and GET MAD here!! This is your marriage at stake - why are you willing to just meekly let it expire?????

You actually don't even belong in counseling, you know. With your attitude it's just a waste of time.



napsternova said:


> This really sucks, all day long I think about what the heck can fix our situation and get back to being happy with one another. When she initiates a conversation, I drop what I'm doing to give her my full attention but when I start a convo she hardly listens. So preoccupied with anything other then me. As far as importance goes, kids, bills, side business, but whoops, I didn't make the list.


And this doesn't piss you off???

There's only so many ways we can say it, you know. If you just keep ignoring the advice, and keep listing off all the stuff you pine for and how freaking NICE you are to her, we're just gonna give up and ignore you. JUST like she does.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Jessica38 said:


> Use therapy time tonight to talk about how you want to come up with a plan to schedule 20 hours/week of quality time with her, and brainstorm fun things you two can do together, as well as childcare logistics. Dr. Harley in His Needs, Her Needs says that it takes 20 hours of quality time a week to fall back in love with your spouse. In fact, he won't even counsel couples who say they can't make this time because no matter what else you do, it simply won't work if you two aren't getting enough fun time together to meet the most important intimate needs: conversation, recreational companionship, affection, and sex. I understand you can't get your wife on board yet with the last 2, but you might find that within weeks of spending fun time together like you did while you were dating, you two fall back in love and your wife will once again be interested in having sex with you.
> 
> * also want to add that now may not be the right time for a side business. Your wife has a full-time job and young twins and another child in school. No wonder she doesn't have any time left for you! I'd discuss this issue with your MC as well. You need to agree on adding any extra activities and it sounds like her plate is already completely full without adding a side business.


This isn't going to work. She's just going to tell you sure, that sounds good, and then keep on doing what she's been doing the whole time. And you'll let her, all the time wondering WHY????


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

I think chemical castration would just be easier to deal with. No more urges to bend her over the couch, watch her in the kitchen looking hot, and certainly wouldn't have to deal with pent up urges.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

napsternova said:


> It is really hard to get her attention anymore. She's so consumed with her skincare "side business" that time doesn't even exist. We have a therapy session tonight. I'm trying to figure out how to say wtf? This really sucks, all day long I think about what the heck can fix our situation and get back to being happy with one another. When she initiates a conversation, I drop what I'm doing to give her my full attention but when I start a convo she hardly listens. So preoccupied with anything other then me. As far as importance goes, kids, bills, side business, but whoops, I didn't make the list.


Start going your own way. Mr Nice Guys get walked on


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

napsternova said:


> I think chemical castration would just be easier to deal with. No more urges to bend her over the couch, watch her in the kitchen looking hot, and certainly wouldn't have to deal with pent up urges.


You've already castrated yourself, dude. STOP BEING SO BLOODY NICE and GET MAD here. If you standing up for yourself drives her away then WHY ON EARTH would you want to be with her anyway????????????????

Man, your attitude just pisses me off. Sorry to be so blunt but it does.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> You've already castrated yourself, dude. STOP BEING SO BLOODY NICE and GET MAD here. If you standing up for yourself drives her away then WHY ON EARTH would you want to be with her anyway????????????????
> 
> Man, your attitude just pisses me off. Sorry to be so blunt but it does.


You don't have to worry about pushing her away. She's already gone.

Maybe it's time to try a different approach


----------



## BlueandBlond (Jun 20, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> She already got from you all she wanted the family, nice house, nice job. She's just bidding her time till she finds something better. The best that you can do now is dump her before that happens.


Would you say the same if it was the man that didn't want anything to do with the wife? Should she dump him first?


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> You complain that there is no sexual intimacy between you and your wife. But there is no non-sexual intimacy either. And that does not seem to phase you. Most women need a good amount of non-sexual intimacy to desire sex. What is non-sexual intimacy? It's spending time together, just the two of you to doing things where you are focused on each other.. AKA quality time and dating.
> 
> It takes a minimum of 15 hours a week of quality time to keep the bond strong, and thus passion strong, in a marriage.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing that his wife isn't the least bit interested in non-sexual intimacy or spending quality time with him.

But, I guess you've got to start somewhere and this should be tried first.

Once this doesn't work, I'd suggest putting the same effort into meeting her needs that she puts into meeting his.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

napsternova said:


> We have a therapy session tonight. I'm trying to figure out how to say wtf?


Stop with figuring out how to say WTF AND JUST SAY IT, Just like that! I think you need to stiffen the spine and just flat out confront her. Tell her the blame game stops. Next time she starts in on you, grab your keys and LEAVE. Her disrespect should NOT be tolerated..


----------



## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> Stop with figuring out how to say WTF AND JUST SAY IT, Just like that! I think you need to stiffen the spine and just flat out confront her. Tell her the blame game stops. Next time she starts in on you, grab your keys and LEAVE. Her disrespect should NOT be tolerated..


Absolutely. Tell her this sh1t has to stop, in that language. If you never get angry (I bet you don't) it will be even more effective. Tell her how you feel. Get ANGRY. That's what men do - they get ANGRY. They don't turn into blubbering heaps of jelly. Anger is massively underrated. It's a POSITIVE and POWERFUL emotion if used properly. For me it makes me laser focused and I am unbeatable in an argument when I'm angry. My brain goes into overdrive and all my second thoughts and doubts disappear. 

Unbelievably that's what saved my marriage. My wife actually said to me at one point "if you had slapped me across the face it might have snapped me out of it sooner". Not that I would ever be physically violent to her. Please note I am NOT suggesting you get physically violent. Just show her your anger. She might even be criticizing you and thinking you are a ***** because you are NOT getting angry!!!!! She's probably thinking you are some sort of limp ***** and not a real man like that guy she met out with her friends last week. Prove her wrong !!!! 

And if she starts the whole "I think he's going to be physically abusive to me" you have your answer. In that case serve her with divorce papers. Why is it that when a wife acts like a ****ty person, the husband has to be extra nice to her? You never see the advice with the genders reversed. Know why? Because it's a load of BS. If you were a complete ******* to her all the time then this advice might be relevant, but it's irrelevant to you. 

RESPECT. If someone loves you they RESPECT you. You are not being respected. Being extra nice to her will get you even less respect.


----------



## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

napsternova said:


> I think chemical castration would just be easier to deal with. No more urges to bend her over the couch, watch her in the kitchen looking hot, and certainly wouldn't have to deal with pent up urges.


What is this crock of BS?! 

Listen to yourself?! Do you understand how lame and weak you sound? OP, the issue is not your wife, it's you! Sheesh!


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Good thing I didn't do anything drastic cause I was needed. Well, needed my desires filled and told her what's up. Works like a charm. She must want me to ****tate when I need/want to.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

BlueandBlond said:


> Would you say the same if it was the man that didn't want anything to do with the wife? Should she dump him first?


No because men don't cut off sex when they have everything in life they wanted.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

napsternova said:


> Good thing I didn't do anything drastic cause I was needed. Well, needed my desires filled and told her what's up. Works like a charm. She must want me to ****tate when I need/want to.


Care to expound upon this..?


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

This dude isn't reading ANYTHING that's being posted or answering any of our questions. I'm still waiting to find out what this 'ring' is she has and why she has it if it's birth control and he's snipped


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> This dude isn't reading ANYTHING that's being posted or answering any of our questions. I'm still waiting to find out what this 'ring' is she has and why she has it if it's birth control and he's snipped


Wedding ring. He's alluding to bait and switch.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

I am going to try again and see if it was just a fluke or what.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

It's a contraception ring that she has inserted. I mean yeah she could screw anyone without getting pregnant but I really doubt that's what she's up to.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

napsternova said:


> It's a contraception ring that she has inserted. I mean yeah she could screw anyone without getting pregnant but I really doubt that's what she's up to.


So why does she have contraception when you're snipped?????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

napsternova said:


> I am going to try again and see if it was just a fluke or what.


Try what???????

Your posts make ABSOLUTELY no sense.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> So why does she have contraception when you're snipped?????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Only one good reason for that...


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> So why does she have contraception when you're snipped?????????????????????????????????????????????????????


I use Nuvaring. I would continue to use it even if my partner was snipped, and we were monogamous.

The answer is very simple. Getting my period SUCKS. I have a very flow which, if I am not on contraception, can last up to a week and a half with horrible cramps, and is very unpredictable. Some months it will start after four weeks, sometime six. Who knows? It's menstrual roulette.

But when I'm on contraception, my flow is much, much lighter and shorter with know cramps. I know exactly when I'm going to get it, and I can skip periods by taking it continuously. I can plan around things like beach vacations and other special occasions.

It makes perfect sense to me.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

FeministInPink said:


> I use Nuvaring. I would continue to use it even if my partner was snipped, and we were monogamous.
> 
> The answer is very simple. Getting my period SUCKS. I have a very flow which, if I am not on contraception, can last up to a week and a half with horrible cramps, and is very unpredictable. Some months it will start after four weeks, sometime six. Who knows? It's menstrual roulette.
> 
> ...


Ok, learned something. Thanks for info


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Hope1964 said:
> 
> 
> > So why does she have contraception when you're snipped?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> ...


My wife is on the Nuvaring and says it really help regulate her period. I think she might also be somewhat afraid of my proceedure not completely cutting off the sperm. We did suffer through 3 miscarriages before our first born. And 1 after.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

The other thing about NuvaRing that is better than the pill is that you don't have to worry about taking a pill every day at the same time. Just change out the ring once a month.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

Well. it seems as if we've reached the end of the road. I'm not stupid but I guess a was hopeful things would be able to be resolved by putting in the extra effort but it makes no difference what I do or say. We sat down and talked about how I really want to feel good with each other and how life is crappy sometimes but our bond makes it worth while. But the feelings aren't mutual, I am disposable. She can find 1,000 guys tomorrow and I will be left to my own isolation. I don't know what to do. I'm scared ****less about "quitting" on my kids. My twins are only 4 and my daughter is just 7 (I just took her to our first ever daddy/daughter dance). I can't live with this turmoil. I am seriously ****ed up about this.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

So does that mean she is unwilling to make any effort? She wants to end the marriage?


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> So does that mean she is unwilling to make any effort? She wants to end the marriage?


It really does seem that way. She isn't doing or trying to improve the relationship. I have improved my behavior, compliments, asking to help, trying to woo her with breakfast in bed and taking the kids out, etc... I pay her compliments and show enthusiasm with her accomplishments. I tell her, come on babe let's have some fun while we can, we are both 40, I'm Type 1 diabetic and don't have ED, yet. I seriously wish my sex drive would just go way. I mean wtf?


----------



## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

D - to tha I - to tha VOR - C - E.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

napsternova said:


> It really does seem that way. She isn't doing or trying to improve the relationship. I have improved my behavior, compliments, asking to help, trying to woo her with breakfast in bed and taking the kids out, etc... I pay her compliments and show enthusiasm with her accomplishments. I tell her, come on babe let's have some fun while we can, we are both 40, I'm Type 1 diabetic and don't have ED, yet. I seriously wish my sex drive would just go way. I mean wtf?


So you are rewarding her for treating you poorly. She is getting no consequences. And until you make it clear that this is a do or die situation, she will maintain the status quo. Let her know its..counseling...effort...improvement, or divorce.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> So you are rewarding her for treating you poorly. She is getting no consequences. And until you make it clear that this is a do or die situation, she will maintain the status quo. Let her know its..counseling...effort...improvement, or divorce.


Yes, you need to have a "Come to Jesus" conversation with your wife. And you need to be prepared to back it up with actual consequences and file when she doesn't take any action to make improvements. 

Sorry that you're here, friend. It's a hard place to be, but things will get better.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

napsternova said:


> It really does seem that way. She isn't doing or trying to improve the relationship. I have improved my behavior, compliments, asking to help, trying to woo her with breakfast in bed and taking the kids out, etc... I pay her compliments and show enthusiasm with her accomplishments. I tell her, come on babe let's have some fun while we can, we are both 40, I'm Type 1 diabetic and don't have ED, yet. I seriously wish my sex drive would just go way. I mean wtf?


Well, you've stepped up your game, which you needed to do to prove that it wasn't on you.

Now it's time to do the 180.

Have a conversation with her where you point out that, as she doesn't prioritize your needs, you will no longer prioritize hers.

Let her know that this will undoubtedly result in the end of your marriage at some point in the future. Let her know that, while you have no intention of looking to be involved with other women, you will certainly be more vulnerable if the situation should arise. Let her know that you will probably be looking to end the marriage when the kids are grown if not sooner. Only do things for her that you would do for anyone. Get a life that someone else might want to be a part of.

Stop initiating sex, consider refusing when she initiates on her terms (who wants a sex life that is completely controlled by the other person?).

Focus on yourself and being a father. Become a better person, someone who will have an easy time attracting quality women when the time comes.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

napsternova said:


> Everyone says affair but I really have no way of knowing.


Affair. 



napsternova said:


> I don't know what the hell to do.


Divorce.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

One night a couple weeks ago I was in the garage painting some furniture items (I refinished all the dressers and nightstands in my kids rooms), buzzing on Apple Pie but pizzed about something and she comes in and asks if I wanted to go to bed. I said "not now hon I'm busy." Great idea I had, since then she hasn't asked at all. I mean how the hell? She flat out turns me down all the time which really kills the male ego, I give it back once in 20yrs just to show her how it feels and "poof"? I sure created a mess of a life for myself.

I'm not going to the divorce route. I'm pretty much decided on that. Unfortunately it doesn't give me a very strong hand. Sorry everyone, I really do appreciate all your help. I just don't have the fight in me anymore. There's got to be another way.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

napsternova said:


> One night a couple weeks ago I was in the garage painting some furniture items (I refinished all the dressers and nightstands in my kids rooms), buzzing on Apple Pie but pizzed about something and she comes in and asks if I wanted to go to bed. I said "not now hon I'm busy." Great idea I had, since then she hasn't asked at all. I mean how the hell? She flat out turns me down all the time which really kills the male ego, I give it back once in 20yrs just to show her how it feels and "poof"? I sure created a mess of a life for myself.
> 
> *I'm not going to the divorce route. I'm pretty much decided on that. Unfortunately it doesn't give me a very strong hand.* Sorry everyone, I really do appreciate all your help. I just don't have the fight in me anymore. There's got to be another way.


Just bear in mind that you deciding not to divorce her doesn't mean you won't get divorced. _She_ can divorce _you_. 

I think if you want to stay married you better get some of that fight back in you and fight to recover.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

I would actually be fine if she divorced me. I would at least be able to look at myself in the mirror. There's just no ***ing way I could look at my kids knowing how much I've hurt them. I'm not much of a quitter and I don't want to throw away what we have. We are a good team when we need to be. I think some individual counseling might help her figure out what's important. Yep typical floor mat here. But I haven't been the ideal husband the whole marriage either soooo... lol It's complicated.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Stolen from @MEM2020


I will tell you what I told my wife of 25+ years (we have been together almost 28) early in our marriage.

My knee jerk reaction is to put you and your desires first. That's just a hard wired response. If you can't do the same for me in this one area of our marriage - we probably shouldn't be together. And no - that doesn't mean sex on demand. 

What it does mean is this. If you are calculating the bare minimum you can do for me, and have the marriage survive, that isn't about me, that's about you. It isn't love, it's self preservation. And if that's where we are, we shouldn't be together.

Love this!


----------



## introvert (May 30, 2016)

napsternova said:


> Well. it seems as if we've reached the end of the road. I'm not stupid but I guess a was hopeful things would be able to be resolved by putting in the extra effort but it makes no difference what I do or say. We sat down and talked about how I really want to feel good with each other and how life is crappy sometimes but our bond makes it worth while. But the feelings aren't mutual, I am disposable. She can find 1,000 guys tomorrow and I will be left to my own isolation. I don't know what to do. I'm scared ****less about "quitting" on my kids. My twins are only 4 and my daughter is just 7 (I just took her to our first ever daddy/daughter dance). I can't live with this turmoil. I am seriously ****ed up about this.


Can you give the specifics of your conversation with your wife? You seem very vague, at least here, about what your conversations entail, and you were going to bring the topic up in marriage counseling, but you never reported back on that. 

Communication is vital.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Napster,

You have no chance of changing this broken dynamic - taking this approach. A man starts out with his contribution to the state of his marriage. He doesn't hint at it a dozen posts into his thread. 




napsternova said:


> I would actually be fine if she divorced me. I would at least be able to look at myself in the mirror. There's just no ***ing way I could look at my kids knowing how much I've hurt them. I'm not much of a quitter and I don't want to throw away what we have. We are a good team when we need to be. I think some individual counseling might help her figure out what's important. Yep typical floor mat here. But I haven't been the ideal husband the whole marriage either soooo... lol It's complicated.


----------



## introvert (May 30, 2016)

Maybe this is just me, but I talk a whole heck of a lot about sex and every other aspect of my relationship with my S.O. 

I can't fathom my sex life fading away and my not bringing it up in great detail with my significant other, to solve the issue, bring it to light, etc. You are extremely vague in your references to your convos on this topic with your wife, and it seems you did not bring it up in the counseling session as you said you would. On top of that, it seems you are very eager to cut and run from the whole relationship.

Things aren't adding up.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

napsternova said:


> I'm not going to the divorce route. I'm pretty much decided on that. Unfortunately it doesn't give me a very strong hand. Sorry everyone, I really do appreciate all your help. I just don't have the fight in me anymore. There's got to be another way.


Well then, I hope you are prepared to be unhappy, because as long as she knows you are staying put to be her doormat, she will NOT change. Why should she?? She gets to do things her way with no consideration of you because YOU arent going anywhere. You totally diminish your worth this way.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

introvert said:


> Maybe this is just me, but I talk a whole heck of a lot about sex and every other aspect of my relationship with my S.O.
> 
> I can't fathom my sex life fading away and my not bringing it up in great detail with my significant other, to solve the issue, bring it to light, etc. You are extremely vague in your references to your convos on this topic with your wife, and it seems you did not bring it up in the counseling session as you said you would. On top of that, it seems you are very eager to cut and run from the whole relationship.
> 
> Things aren't adding up.


Sex life doesn't "fade away" overnight. Not if they're reasonably intelligent 😁


----------



## introvert (May 30, 2016)

john117 said:


> Sex life doesn't "fade away" overnight. Not if they're reasonably intelligent 😁


Duly noted. I just can't imagine not talking about the whole issue, but I guess I'm somewhat unusual in that aspect, unfortunately. I imagined that everybody talked with their spouses about stuff. I'm starting to see that I'm a real oddity!


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

introvert said:


> Duly noted. I just can't imagine not talking about the whole issue, but I guess I'm somewhat unusual in that aspect, unfortunately. I imagined that everybody talked with their spouses about stuff. I'm starting to see that I'm a real oddity!


Talking about it requires both spouses to be open to talking about it. My XH was so... repressed? I don't know what it was, but he would NOT talk about sex. He couldn't even say the names of body parts without using stupid Victorian-esque euphemisms. And he refused to talk about the actual act of sex, and the fact that we weren't having enough of it. I tried to talk about it with him numerous times, and I never got anywhere with him, meanwhile our sex life grew worse. He knew it was bad, and he refused to do anything.


----------



## napsternova (Mar 10, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Talking about it requires both spouses to be open to talking about it. My XH was so... repressed? I don't know what it was, but he would NOT talk about sex. He couldn't even say the names of body parts without using stupid Victorian-esque euphemisms. And he refused to talk about the actual act of sex, and the fact that we weren't having enough of it. I tried to talk about it with him numerous times, and I never got anywhere with him, meanwhile our sex life grew worse. He knew it was bad, and he refused to do anything.


Thank you, we do talk about it but I'm the only one that has interest in it, sex, and or physical attention. rubbing shoulders, neck, scalp, feet, whatever. And btw, I do bring a lot to the relationship but I'm not here to gloat or stroke my ego. There isn't anything I don't do in our home. I kill myself to work, cook, feed our kids, teach them, read to them, bath them, I go to all my girls school activities, parent-teacher conferences, just went to daddy/daughter dance. I'm always trying to improve our living quarters, shelves, can lights, dimmers, low level lighting around the outside and trees, maintain the whole outside, kids bikes, both mine and my wife's vehicles (I was an auto mechanic 100 yrs ago). I do the grocery shopping, laundry except my wife's stuff unless she asks or if it seems like she would want me to. I make sure my daughter is on the bus on time. Coffee made every morning. I make pretty sweet birthday photo videos for our kids birthday's, all kinds of holiday stuff. I mean, what else can I do? My wife ignores sex talk like the plague. I've asked her many times her desires or fantasies. I'll do anything to please her. Why wouldn't I? This isn't a test drive, I signed up for life.

I'm sorry for being vague, I'll go back and answer the inquiries that I missed. Or, some of them at least.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

napsternova said:


> Thank you, we do talk about it but I'm the only one that has interest in it, sex, and or physical attention. rubbing shoulders, neck, scalp, feet, whatever. And btw, I do bring a lot to the relationship but I'm not here to gloat or stroke my ego. There isn't anything I don't do in our home. I kill myself to work, cook, feed our kids, teach them, read to them, bath them, I go to all my girls school activities, parent-teacher conferences, just went to daddy/daughter dance. I'm always trying to improve our living quarters, shelves, can lights, dimmers, low level lighting around the outside and trees, maintain the whole outside, kids bikes, both mine and my wife's vehicles (I was an auto mechanic 100 yrs ago). I do the grocery shopping, laundry except my wife's stuff unless she asks or if it seems like she would want me to. I make sure my daughter is on the bus on time. Coffee made every morning. I make pretty sweet birthday photo videos for our kids birthday's, all kinds of holiday stuff. I mean, what else can I do? My wife ignores sex talk like the plague. I've asked her many times her desires or fantasies. I'll do anything to please her. Why wouldn't I? This isn't a test drive, I signed up for life.
> 
> I'm sorry for being vague, I'll go back and answer the inquiries that I missed. Or, some of them at least.


I wasn't implying that YOU'RE not open to it. Your wife sounds like my XH in this respect.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

introvert said:


> Duly noted. I just can't imagine not talking about the whole issue, but I guess I'm somewhat unusual in that aspect, unfortunately. I imagined that everybody talked with their spouses about stuff. I'm starting to see that I'm a real oddity!


That's the point, it happens over a period of time - and with plausible explanations​ along the way. If you bring it up the pace picks up a bit then back down. If 

By the time the unsuspecting spouse wakes up it's generally too late.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

john117 said:


> That's the point, it happens over a period of time - and with plausible explanations​ along the way. If you bring it up the pace picks up a bit then back down. If
> 
> By the time the unsuspecting spouse wakes up it's generally too late.


EXACTLY. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

napsternova said:


> I'm not going to the divorce route. I'm pretty much decided on that. Unfortunately it doesn't give me a very strong hand. Sorry everyone, I really do appreciate all your help. I just don't have the fight in me anymore. There's got to be another way.


THIS! This is exactly the very implement by which she holds you hostage. Because of this philosophy that you cling to, you will be eternally impotent in the dynamic between you two. Until you divorce yourself from this futile mindset there will be nothing any of us can say that will help you. 

This quote has been thrown out here in TAM many times because it is so true... "you've got to be willing to lose your marriage if you want to save it." 

And no, there is no other way.


----------

