# 15 yeaer-old daughter sneaks around, smokes cigs, pot, disobeys



## sexy

Help !

My wonderful number 1 daughter has gone from Shirley Temple to DAMIEN THE OMEN!!! Yes she had her LINDSEY LOHAN transformation!!!!! She used to be adored by everyone and now she cuts herself, she had been using dope for a couple of years, and today my husband caught her sneaking outside the house to smoke cigarettes. She has been checked into a mental health psychiatric facility 2 times this summer. They will only hold her a week at a time and then they release her to our custody b/c she isn't charged with anything. I am at my end of my rope. We have her in intensive outpatient counseling, but she shuts down whenever she is in the sessions. She just pacifies the therapist and then does what she wants when she gets home! My H is not much help, as he sees it as me being to hard on her. He thinks I'm punishing her too much and not giving her a reason to want to improve. In some ways I see his point, but in others I am unimpressed with the progress my daughter has made. It seems that she does just enough to get her father off her back, but then just backpedals and bides her time doing the bare minimum until whe wants something else again. Then she does a little more and only enough to get her time on the phone or to go to some event (a dance or something). I am tired of her just giving me the bare minimum and going to her father as if Im picking on her and she is totally innocent in all this! I was not caught with mj in my room. I was not caught smoking outside our bedroom window. I did not leave during the middle of the night to go smoke weed with my friend during the wee hours of the night! Yet I am the bad GUY!!!!! Lighten up a little with her. don't fight her all the time, my H tells me. The thing of the matter is that she gives me her absolute worst behavior, and saves her best for Dad. BTW we all still live under the same roof. Yes this is a nuclear family. My H just wants to give everyone what they want to they will be quiet and he can do what he wants to do. He doesn't really unite with me regarding consequences or give her any real punishment. And when he does, it's usually physical labor rather than forbidding her to use phone, go to homecoming, see boyfriend, etc. he theorizes that she will just behave worse if we take everything from her. I kind of see his point, if she has already lost the things she wants most, why behave to our expectations? Yes, it's much easier to just make excuses for her behavior, say she is just a f ck-up and do what she wants anyway (smoke, weed, backtalk, whatever she wants).
I feel POWERLESS!!!!! I don't know what I can do anymore! She is as big as me and any altercation we get into usually leads to physical confrontation. You all know who willl pay the most for that don't you? ME!!! Yep she's got me by the short hairs as it were. How do I get her to behave like a young adult? This is really damaging to my younger daughter to witness. All she sees is that daughter 1 gets away with bloody murder with barely a slap on the wrist, and she has to do everything or get into trouble. This is not right, but how do I get my older daughter to comply with rules and regs without getting into a bar room brawl with her. I really don't need more drama in this house. It seems every time I give her an order or a chore to do she just rolls her eyes at me and does what she wants anyway. I dare not get up into her face, lest we have a knockdown drag out and I get CPS called on me. I have had the Sheriff's deputies out to my home twice this summer because she ran away 2 times. Her grades are slipping, and I don't know how to get her to grow up. Can some one please help me?


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## RandomDude

She will need someone who she feels can understand her, right now she knows that you don't. This is coming from someone who was involved in a lot of crap, drug-deals, debt-collections, gangs, etc etc in my youth. I was left on the streets at 12, so when I reconciled with my parents at 18, good luck to them. Hell, good luck to them even now, because I know for a fact that they don't understand. We reconciled only due to bad blood, and that's it.

At this point of time, this is the only thing that could help. I will never forget the advice of those who have been there, done that, and lived to tell the tale. They were my guidance, not my parents. This is an avenue that you can never understand. Please, find someone, ask around, counsellors, friends, there's folk out there who your daughter will listen to. Including me, but I'm on the net


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## Falene

If you really want to help your daughter you will stop taking her crap and I mean now. No offense to anyone but the only person your daughter needs to be sharing with is you. She should be telling you how damn sorry and remorseful she is for acting so horribly. Who gives a shet what she is feeling? You can get to her feelings when her behavior allows you to. She is hurting? No frigging kidding! She is also making sure everyone else is miserable too! Where is the fairness and goodness in that?

You sit her down and tell her you are done with her behavior. You let her know that you are willing to start with a clean slate. You set fair rules. If she is over 18 you need to let her smoke outside of the home w/ rules (no throwing butts, etc.) You do not have to pay for her habit. You put them on paper and hand her a copy. You set consequences that sting like hell if she breaks the rules. You put them on paper and hand her a copy of those too. 

I suggest choosing consequences that rely on her very little to get accomplished. Example: Cell phone turned off. Wifi gets a password and she doesn't go online. Car keys are taken away. These are much better than restricting her as she can just give you the finger and walk out the door. 

If she breaks the rules (and she probably will as she will test the waters) you MUST be firm and do not cave in. You must allow her to suffer the consequences of her actions. More importantly, you must send the message to your younger daughter that this type of behavior is not allowed or tolerated. If you don't you could very well be dealing with this all over again. You are also subjecting your younger daughter to potential danger from your older daughter by allowing her to be exposed to drugs and people who use drugs.

You say it gets physical? The next time she takes a swing at you let her hit you. Call the police.

You say she is using drugs? The next time you suspect she is high or find drugs you call the police.

She comes in drunk? Call the police.

Unless you insist she follows the rules she will not. Unless you make following the rules by far more enjoyable than breaking them she will not fall in line. Some kids are just like that. They will cut off their nose to spite their face. It is her choice to do so. Help her see the error of her ways or heaven knows what her future could be like.

If her father wants to move out with her and put up with her, let him. At least your younger daughter would have the opportunity to have a somewhat normal childhood instead of always taking the backseat to her sister.


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## heartsbeating

sexy said:


> She used to be adored by everyone and now she cuts herself


What happened to/with her?

Why is she self-destructing? Why does she feel unworthy?

My friend in school started cutting herself. Went from good grades to skipping school a lot. I'm not saying this is what's happening with your daughter - but I discovered her family was having issues and then her boyfriend at the time was leaving bruises on her. That's when the cutting began. It was a cry for help but she wouldn't tell anyone and stayed with the boyfriend. Fast forward a couple of years, I wasn't at school anymore and received a letter from her from hospital. I hadn't seen her in a long time and went to visit. She'd tried to take her own life. Why? Because she saw her mother trying to take her own life. 

I can't help but wonder (and maybe I'm projecting, thinking about my friend), maybe she's resentful/angry at you for not knowing what's going on with her? There's got to be a reason she's gone from 'princess' to 'train wreck'.


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## costa200

Self mutilation is a sign of something deeply wrong. There is something there you need to find out about.


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## turnera

Two things going on. First, you are being too lenient and too bending. You should have IRON-CLAD RULES in the house for ALL children, and you need to find a way to get your husband to abide by them - even it if means dragging him to a therapist. The ONLY way she'll survive this is if you enforce the consequences of those rules with NO discussions. Except in terms of someone dying or something. NO exceptions. 

She may end up with no phone, no car, no tv, no nothing, but that will be HER CHOICE after you have explained the consequences for actions. It's not your job to be her friend and, in fact, if you bend because you feel sorry for her or you want her to like you, you are setting her up for a LIFETIME of bad choices and misery. She needs you to be strong and unrelenting right now.

Now, that said, the one thing I've seen that usually leads to this stuff is the kid feeling like you aren't really 'there' for her. You don't listen. You judge. You don't love unconditionally. She wants it and is trying to get your attention.

So, along with setting the rules, you tell her and her sister: "These are the rules for the house. As long as you live here, that's what you get. You don't like the rules? You can leave, but don't expect me to support you somewhere else. I love you and I want you here. Now, I'm here to admit that your dad and I may have not given you the emotional support you needed, but that ends today. I'm not your friend but I AM your mother and I love you no matter what; I may not like what you DO, but I'll never stop loving you. And I promise that my days of judging are over. You can tell me whatever you want, and it won't affect that I love you. I'm sure you'll try to test the waters, I expect it. I may get exasperated, but I won't stop loving you. That said, if you choose to test my boundaries like smoking or weed or stealing or whatever, you WILL be enjoying the consequences of said behavior. It's up to you."


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## papa5280

I am someone who has been where you are. I'm two years further along the same path with my 17 year old son. EVERYTHING you described was part of our experience...the initial cutting, the pot and tobacco use, the inpatient time in psych wards, the ineffective therapy, because he never bought-in, the complete lack of respect for us, our property, or our rules, the arguing between parents that comes from all this. He was and is a master manipulator.

So you'll know where I'm coming from today, my wife walked away from the family 11 months ago. The stress of our son's behaviors and our reactions to them were a significant cause of our friction. As I type this, my son doesn't know where he's spending the night tonight. He slept in a park last night. He has burned every bridge with every friend, and exhausted his supply of enablers. So, at the moment, I can't offer you the promise of a happily-ever-after, but I do believe that the path I'm taking now is his only chance to not end up dead or in prison within the next few years.

So, here's how we got here: My STBXW would always want to give him one more chance...then one more...etc. I put my foot down. Now that my STBXW doesn't live in my home, I can set the rule: To live in my house, you need to give me a clean UA. Once home, there will be random UAs at least once a week. Other than that, you need to respect me, your sister, and our property, to not steal from us, and to stay in school. That's it. Personally, I can't lower the bar any further than that.

Well, he's not willing or able to do that. So, he's homeless. He states that pot isn't addictive, and that he could quit, but chooses not to. I don't know if I believe that anymore (FYI, I have been a lifelong supporter of legalizing the stuff, but for the first time in 40 years, I'm seriously rethinking my position). If he wants to stop but can't, I'll get him help. But he has to admit it. Otherwise, I'm operating on the principle that he is making a choice, and has to accept the consequences.

This is a very difficult path. The easiest thing to do would be to let him come home, let him sneak off to get high, and pretend that everything is OK. But, I won't do that, because I believe that path is far worse for him in the long run.


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## turnera

The key is to explain the consequences up front, with NO EMOTION attached. The same rules/consequences everyone in the family lives by, so it's not about her. They just are rules. Common sense. Logical. Protective. And smart.

She can choose to rebel against them...great...go ahead...enjoy the consequences. You won't tell her what she has to do...just what will happen to her. That way, it IS all about her. She'll learn, eventually.

And there are all kinds of consequences; get creative. Remove door from hinge, take pillows away, remove electronics from room, has to take bus to school...

One thing I told my DD in junior high was that, if she were to decide she wanted to ditch school and I found out about it, MY next step was going to be to quit my job. I would then drive her to school every day, walk INTO school with (or behind) her every day, and get permission to sit in her classes every day. Her choice. She never ditched a single day until her senior year - and even then she asked me permission first, lol.

Just don't forget to work on that communication - listen listen listen and never judge. It's essential. Today, I'm DD22's best friend. She used to test me, to see if I really WOULD avoid judging her. I never did. I told her I didn't like something she was doing, but I never judged her. She told me later she didn't really believe me, but eventually realized I was telling the truth. I had to SHOW her that I was serious about not judging.


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## Runs like Dog

My wife is the enabler. It doesn't work.


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## lovingsummer

turnera said:


> The key is to explain the consequences up front, with NO EMOTION attached. The same rules/consequences everyone in the family lives by, so it's not about her. They just are rules. Common sense. Logical. Protective. And smart.
> 
> She can choose to rebel against them...great...go ahead...enjoy the consequences. You won't tell her what she has to do...just what will happen to her. That way, it IS all about her. She'll learn, eventually.
> 
> And there are all kinds of consequences; get creative. Remove door from hinge, take pillows away, remove electronics from room, has to take bus to school...
> 
> One thing I told my DD in junior high was that, if she were to decide she wanted to ditch school and I found out about it, MY next step was going to be to quit my job. I would then drive her to school every day, walk INTO school with (or behind) her every day, and get permission to sit in her classes every day. Her choice. She never ditched a single day until her senior year - and even then she asked me permission first, lol.
> 
> Just don't forget to work on that communication - listen listen listen and never judge. It's essential. Today, I'm DD22's best friend. She used to test me, to see if I really WOULD avoid judging her. I never did. I told her I didn't like something she was doing, but I never judged her. She told me later she didn't really believe me, but eventually realized I was telling the truth. I had to SHOW her that I was serious about not judging.


You sound very much like me... I have 3 teenagers... ugh... 19,17,13 I'm very glad now that I put the work into discipline when they were young and stayed consistent.

I have at one point or another... taken door off hinges, stripped their bedrooms of EVERYTHING but a mattress, pillow, blanket, taken their "name brand" clothes away and replaced them with cheap stuff, drug tested, talked to their friends parents, taken cars, ipods, cell phones, tv, internet away... etc. etc. 

They know the rules up front, they never change (the rules) and if they want to be angry about their consequences then they are free to go look in the mirror and have that talk with themselves about making better choices.


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## turnera

Discipline does work. You just have to make sure you're not a 'because I said so' parent. That never works; they just learn to sneak better. Explain WHY you set up the rules/consequences so they are able to see the logic and come to the same conclusions on their own when you're not with them.

And 'because I said so' shuts down the gates. Never do that. Always be available to advise, talk or listen.


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## WhereAmI

When I was cutting it was to deal with pain without burdening those around me. When my parents discovered cutting the first words out of my father's mouth were, "How could you do this to your mother?" They unintentionally raised me to be codependent. Everything was always about how to please my mother. My cutting was mostly in response to molestation that happened for years. Something to explore.

If I were you, I'd bust out every method of spying available to find out what the real issue is. Calling her friends parents to see if they could talk to their children about her, keylogging the computer, searching her room for clues. Something is really messing her up and she doesn't feel safe talking about it. 

Also, I'm a fan of the love and logic approach for parenting. You may want to let your daughter deal with some of the more severe consequences of her behavior. For example, not rescuing her should she get arrested for drug use.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog

We don't teach people ethics anymore.


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## turnera

WhereAmI said:


> Also, I'm a fan of the love and logic approach for parenting. You may want to let your daughter deal with some of the more severe consequences of her behavior. For example, not rescuing her should she get arrested for drug use.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Most definitely! I told my daughter, back around 8th grade (the one time she got in trouble) that, if she ever did something to get thrown in jail, she'd better enjoy it, because I sure as hell wasn't going to bail her out.


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## Falene

I think there is a huge difference between a child that is emotionally ill and one that will pull any stop to get what he/she wants.

It appears to me in this society that we focus too much on emotions in the sense that we let it justify every action we take. Instead of the "this will not be tolerated" we are now throwing out "why do you behave that way?".

It is very difficult to deal with a willful child and, in my opinion, parents cave in, not due to the great love they have for their child, but their inability to gain the mental fortitude and support to combat it.

Another favorite of mine is when one parent labels the other one as the offender/enabler and simply checks out while pointing the finger of blame. If that is truly the case, then you REALLY need to step up and get something in place so your child does not become a statistic, victim or prison inmate.

Accepting poor behavior is just a shade a way from condoning it.


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## lovingsummer

Falene said:


> I think there is a huge difference between a child that is emotionally ill and one that will pull any stop to get what he/she wants.
> 
> It appears to me in this society that we focus too much on emotions in the sense that we let it justify every action we take. Instead of the "this will not be tolerated" we are now throwing out "why do you behave that way?".
> 
> It is very difficult to deal with a willful child and, in my opinion, parents cave in, not due to the great love they have for their child, but their inability to gain the mental fortitude and support to combat it.
> 
> Another favorite of mine is when one parent labels the other one as the offender/enabler and simply checks out while pointing the finger of blame. If that is truly the case, then you REALLY need to step up and get something in place so your child does not become a statistic, victim or prison inmate.
> 
> Accepting poor behavior is just a shade a way from condoning it.


I agree... I'm a pretty strict parent by the standards in my area... but I've always tried to keep the lines of communication open with my kids. I listen to all the drama, who loves who this week, this is the best video game ever, etc. I've told my kids if you are too embarrassed to talk to me in person, leave me a note on my pillow. I've had several notes on my pillow over the years. 

On the flip side.. rules are rules.. They've been clearly stated and explained along with the consequences. If they want to be rebellious that's ok you will be the one paying the price... They hate it when I tell them ... The world is full of people who are "rule breakers"... we call them PRISONERS...


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