# My fault



## DamagedGuy

Hello,

My marriage has had stress, but nothing out of the ordinary. My first wife cheated on me, and I have had trust issues ever since.

My second and wife had two online indiscretions, one before and one after we were married. I forgave, we worked through it, and things have been relatively great.

I had a motorcycle accident, and sepsis that almost killed me a month later. During this time I was racked with guilt over becoming disabled and that my wife had to take care of everything. Out business, our kids, everything. I was extremely depressed and told her she deserved someone else. 

I eventually got off of the painkillers, but still not feeling right mentally and emotionally. I told her that I wanted to separate. My mind at the time, could not remember all that she was doing for us, or what she had done for me while during My ordeal. She was hoping that I would come back around up until just before the half of last month. 

During the time I was in crisis and thinking I wanted to separate, I kept realizing that I loved her deeply and missed being with her, and that I wasnt thinking clearly. I looked up things and realize that I probably have PTSD from my first marriage, and now,from my accident.

I approached her about reconciliation, after about a month of me working things out. We are in separate rooms, but under the same roof. She says she doesn't know that she feels the same way anymore. She contacted an old fling to "talk," and met him at least twice. She changed her facebook password. She told me that someone asked her out for coffee but that she said "I don't know." She admitted that they are texting "normal stuff."

She agreed to MC, and I set it up. Our first appointment is tonight. I don't know what to think. I tried explaining to her what I was going through, but it seemed like begging to her. I said that I'm not being weak, that I'm actually getting stronger everyday, that I regret what I did and that I hurt her and am trying to win back her heart and save our marriage and family.

Over at Marriage Builders, I was advised to use a VAR. I didn't pick up any conversations, so I put it in the car since she uses speakerphone and voice to text while driving. I don't know how into the EA she is, or if she is having a PA.

I'm blaming myself for this. I haven't been right for a while. I told her that the man I was and the reasons why she fell in love with me are still there, that I am healing everyday.

I just don't know what to do, and I feel like she is checking out of our marriage.


----------



## aine

I think your wife is incredibly hurt by your actions and her trust is broken. It will take time to heal but her willingness to go to MC suggests that there is still hope.
When a woman's heart is broken like that she will not rush back into the relationship. You will have to prove to her that you will never do that again, you will never let her down again. 
I think you are on the right path but you need to give the process time and you need to give your wife time to heal and grow with you.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I am adamant that to myself and to my wife that I will never hurt her again and that I want to regain trust. 

I don't know how to deal with an OM influencing her decisions. I am thankful and hopeful about the MC, though I don't know how it can work if she is beginning a relationship with another man.

I hate myself for what I put her through and am afraid I may lose my wife, and our family be broken over it.


----------



## MyRevelation

In my experience, MC is a complete waste of time and money, and just like MB is designed to separate your money from your wallet, but MC is ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS if there is an ongoing A. At this point, you really need to be snooping to find out exactly what your W's cheating status is at the moment. Has it gone from only an EA to a full blown PA, and then act accordingly. 

If it is still in the EA category, you may have a chance to save your M if BOTH of you want it, but if it's already crossed over into the PA category, you might as well schedule a visit with an attorney, because your W has already checked out, which sounds to be the case based on her responses.


----------



## ButtPunch

aine said:


> I think your wife is incredibly hurt by your actions and her trust is broken. It will take time to heal but her willingness to go to MC suggests that there is still hope.
> When a woman's heart is broken like that she will not rush back into the relationship. You will have to prove to her that you will never do that again, you will never let her down again.
> I think you are on the right path but you need to give the process time and you need to give your wife time to heal and grow with you.


Her willingness to see a MC doesn't mean squat. 

This could be a delay tactic for her to try the OM on for size.

Seen it too many times.


----------



## GusPolinski

DamagedGuy said:


> I am adamant that to myself and to my wife that I will never hurt her again and that I want to regain trust.
> 
> I don't know how to deal with an OM influencing her decisions. I am thankful and hopeful about the MC, though I don't know how it can work if she is beginning a relationship with another man.
> 
> I hate myself for what I put her through and am afraid I may lose my wife, and our family be broken over it.


If she's in a relationship -- whether EA or PA -- with another man, MC will be a complete waste of both your time and your money.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I feel sick about it all. I don't know what to do. I don't have anyway of getting her phone, and she isn't using her laptop. Unless I pick up something on the VAR, I have no idea what is going on with her and anyone else.

I want to fight for her, though it will be difficult if she is getting involved with another. I'm also on disability, and cannot walk or stand like I used to, and can't work, or drive yet.

If we split for good, not only will I feel great sorrow, I don't have anywhere to go. Out sons lives will be disrupted. If we turn the house back into a duplex and agree to stay in each side, I will see her car gone over night if she is seeing someone, or eventually see his car or even him. 

It is hellish...


----------



## jb02157

I don't think she should have taken your suggestion for a separation so seriously. You were dealing with deep trauma and just coming off pain killers. I'm also coming off an injury and I know how much the pain killers mess with your mind. I got off of those ASAP. She seems to have reverted to getting an OM so quickly, it makes me think that she was seeing him before you asked for the separation. 

She seems to be checked out and I'm not sure why she would accept marriage counseling now. It will be interesting to see what she does and how she responds. Maybe suggest that the two of you go away for a week just to be together and reconnect.


----------



## lifeistooshort

So why exactly did you tell her you wanted to separate? 

What did the VAR pick up? Does she know you used one?

If I found out my hb had recorded me we'd be over.


----------



## DamagedGuy

She had asked before the separation of we could do that when I get personal injury money. After telling her I was in crisis and want to save our marriage, I said that I want to go away with her.


----------



## turnera

What a mess. So go to MC tonight, tell the MC first off that you screwed up BUT that your wife has now gotten a taste of being single and you're not sure whether this is going to work. Make it clear to MC that you're willing to keep going to MC, but ONLY if your wife commits to no talking to any other men while you two do it. See what happens. That will help keep this MC session from being a 'beat up on DG Guy' session.


----------



## Hope1964

turnera said:


> What a mess. So go to MC tonight, tell the MC first off that you screwed up BUT that your wife has now gotten a taste of being single and you're not sure whether this is going to work. Make it clear to MC that you're willing to keep going to MC, but ONLY if your wife commits to no talking to any other men while you two do it. See what happens. That will help keep this MC session from being a 'beat up on DG Guy' session.


THIS. I also think MC is a waste with her talking to other guys, but do the one appt anyway. See what she says.

I don't know about other women, but if my husband told me he wanted to separate, I certainly wouldn't take that to mean I had permission to go out and immediately start screwing around!! What the hell was her rush? Has she never heard of 'in sickness and in health'??

You say YOU would have nowhere to go. Well, news flash - if SHE is cheating it is SHE who needs to get the hell out. NOT you.

Where exactly does this personal injury money factor in? She's probably just agreeing to whatever you say right now till she can get her paws on THAT. I'd take everything she says - EVERYTHING - with a gigantic grain of salt right now.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I separated because my mind and heart were literally confused, my memory wasn't working correctly, and I was going through periods of depression, numbness, and paranoia. 

Before the accident, I did not want to be separated from my wife. After shocking myself with what I did, still loving her and missing her, reading about my symptoms, I gained clarity.

I have not reviewed the VAR from the car yet. The other times, it picked up nothing, but I know she was texting.


----------



## syhoybenden

Hope1964 said:


> What the hell was her rush? Has she never heard of 'in sickness and in health'??



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Absolutely!!

Just what did she think marriage was about? Ooooooh let the good times roll. Party party party! Oh, what's that? You have a problem. Excuse me while I step out and have some more fun. Don't stay up. I'll be in late.


----------



## EleGirl

DamagedGuy said:


> I feel sick about it all. I don't know what to do. I don't have anyway of getting her phone, and she isn't using her laptop. Unless I pick up something on the VAR, I have no idea what is going on with her and anyone else.
> 
> I want to fight for her, though it will be difficult if she is getting involved with another. I'm also on disability, and cannot walk or stand like I used to, and can't work, or drive yet.
> 
> If we split for good, not only will I feel great sorrow, I don't have anywhere to go. Out sons lives will be disrupted. If we turn the house back into a duplex and agree to stay in each side, I will see her car gone over night if she is seeing someone, or eventually see his car or even him.
> 
> It is hellish...


Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley and do what it says to do. The plan in the book is the best chance you have of getting your marriage back to where you want it.


----------



## straightshooter

DamagedGuy said:


> I separated because my mind and heart were literally confused, my memory wasn't working correctly, and I was going through periods of depression, numbness, and paranoia.
> 
> Before the accident, I did not want to be separated from my wife. After shocking myself with what I did, still loving her and missing her, reading about my symptoms, I gained clarity.
> 
> I have not reviewed the VAR from the car yet. The other times, it picked up nothing, but I know she was texting.


*If she is texting other men she is going to talk to them in the car eventually unless she has found the VAR. Do not remove it. 
And you do not waste money on therapy with someone still in an affair and she is*


----------



## DamagedGuy

Here is the MC report:

This counselor is very down to earth while being matter of fact. She is pro-marriage. While she said that we both have personal stuff to work out in addition to our issues as a married couple. She looked directly at my wife and asked her not to make any rash decisions for at least 6 months, to determine either way what is best.

She told my wife that my trauma is more than likely why I was acting the way that I was, especially given how I was before the accident, and how I'm fighting for our marriage now.

I mentioned the guy that asked her out and who she is texting. Counselor straight up told her that she is developing and EA and entering the slippery slope to infidelity. She asked her to cease all communication with OM since it will be detrimental, either way, to continue to be in contact.

Counselor seems to want to help us save our marriage. She said that since we have known each other for most of our lives, been married for almost 5, and been together for almost 7, and have a preemie son and a nice family, it would be a shame to throw it all away. This was after my wife said that she wasn't sure if she wanted to stay married to me. 

She is trying to put us in Plan A. No talking about counseling, our issues, or the marriage for now. Just be around each other doing things like we would have been like a family, and being friendly with each other.

I think this counselor is psychic. She told my wife that if we divorce, friendship is not likely possibly for at least 2 years after, because of the pain that it will cause. 

She said to journal and write down feelings to avoid communicating about the relationship since I am having trouble. When we left, my wife said that she really likes the counselor, and I agreed. It was an hour drive there and back. We ate at a diner on the way, and went shopping at a store before the appointment. We had good conversation like we did when all was well with us.

While the VAR had nothing damning on it, there was almost 2.5 hours of total recording. Thinking about her route today, that may be perfectly normal. She swears that she has done nothing with anyone, just that the guy texting her made her feel good with the attention after I rejected her.

She also said that the personal injury money should be mine to do with what I want, since I lost a part of me from the accident.


----------



## turnera

Good therapist.

Now's a good time to go buy His Needs Her Needs and read it together.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I'm going to order the book. I don't want to try to read it with my wife until I bring it up at counseling. Wife is not receptive to my suggestions now, and I'm trying to follow MC's plan. We are having individual sessions and couples sessions. MC says that she will help me to be a better man than I ever have been, even better than I was before the accident.

If my wife did have an affair and she admits it to the MC, I hope MC advises her to be honest with me. Strangely, I feel that if she did, but ceases and recommits to the marriage, that I will be able to forgive, just because of how I was. Knowing myself, I would normally feel hurt, anxious and angry even suspecting it.


----------



## turnera

Any decent therapist will have read it. Email the MC.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Will do.

I'm still scared about all of this, but I also have faith. MC got wife to admit that things were good before the accident and that she didn't think about a life without me.


----------



## EleGirl

DamagedGuy said:


> I'm going to order the book. I don't want to try to read it with my wife until I bring it up at counseling. Wife is not receptive to my suggestions now, and I'm trying to follow MC's plan. We are having individual sessions and couples sessions. MC says that she will help me to be a better man than I ever have been, even better than I was before the accident.
> 
> If my wife did have an affair and she admits it to the MC, I hope MC advises her to be honest with me. Strangely, I feel that if she did, but ceases and recommits to the marriage, that I will be able to forgive, just because of how I was. Knowing myself, I would normally feel hurt, anxious and angry even suspecting it.


The book "Surviving an Affair" is not a book for your wife to read. I think it would be best at this point if she did not know that you were reading the book.

After that book, there are two follow on books that both you and your wife would benefit from reading together: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs" {see links in my signature block below}. These are two books that the both of you would benefit from reading together and doing the work that they lay out to do. This would be in addition to your counseling.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I will order them all. If we don't make it, I don't plan on remarrying, though you never know what the future holds, and I want tools that will help me. Though I hope with all of my heart that my wife and me can pull through this, together.


----------



## EleGirl

DamagedGuy said:


> I will order them all. If we don't make it, I don't plan on remarrying, though you never know what the future holds, and I want tools that will help me. Though I hope with all of my heart that my wife and me can pull through this, together.


I agree that the books will help you no mater what the outcome of your current relationship is. Though I do hope that you can repair your current relationship since that's what you want.


----------



## SunCMars

DamagedGuy said:


> I feel sick about it all. I don't know what to do. I don't have anyway of getting her phone, and she isn't using her laptop. Unless I pick up something on the VAR, I have no idea what is going on with her and anyone else.
> 
> I want to fight for her, though it will be difficult if she is getting involved with another. I'm also on disability, and cannot walk or stand like I used to, and can't work, or drive yet.
> 
> If we split for good, not only will I feel great sorrow, I don't have anywhere to go. Out sons lives will be disrupted. If we turn the house back into a duplex and agree to stay in each side, I will see her car gone over night if she is seeing someone, or eventually see his car or even him.
> 
> It is hellish...


I get it...only too well. 

I crushed some disks in my back after a bad parachute landing [military]. 

I was laid up, miserable and short tempered....like a caged lion.

Pain can make anyone an a-hole.

Luckily, I stopped this nonsense before it sullied the Rose Garden.

No excuse. 

Continue being contrite and low key. Don't beg. Humbly smile.

On the cheating?

Hell, you broke the bond. 

I wish the best of luck for you.


----------



## SunCMars

DamagedGuy said:


> She also said that the personal injury money should be mine to do with what I want, since *I lost a part of me from the accident.*


Oh boy :frown2:

An important bit of information, a bit of you now missing.

Decent remark from her, on this.

I am trying to refrain from further inquiry.

I hope she does not look poorly on "this" absence.


----------



## MyRevelation

Sounds to me like you just got fed a steaming plate of MC BS.

Wait 6 months ... yeah right, imagine how many times she can ring the cash register in six months?

Plan A ... are you serious, that is the absolute worst advice for a BH. Keep playing the "pick me" dance while WW continues to consider NC with OM.

DG, I know you're in a world of hurt dealing with the double ****burger of your WW's actions on top of your health issues, but BAD advice is BAD advice and your MC is blowing a ton of it.

We've seen it over and over ... all this type advice will get you is 6 months of heartache while you go "all in" on R, and your WW will be just going through the motions. There will be 6 months more of hurt, and 6 months of MC fees lost, and you will be in the exact same place you are now.

Look, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I've been in this exact same position and played it the way you are, and it ended just like I said. You need to take a much harder line if you want any chance. However, if your mind is made up and you don't want to read my thoughts, just say so and I'll gladly bow out.


----------



## Hope1964

Did the MC say anything about your wife being accountable to you? Showing you her phone, that type of thing? Because that REALLY needs to happen.


----------



## DamagedGuy

It was just the first session. If things do not improve, I do not know that I am willing to wait 6 months. I'm trying to imagine a life without her, just to prepare myself if that is what happens. I'm trying to do that while trying to save my marriage, because all that I am feeling is almost unbearable.

Our insurance is covering the MC fees. I'm hoping that the MC tries to convince my wife during her IC session that full disclosure and accountability will be for the best, regardless of outcome. I have an IC session early next week. I will ask her about it and explain my fears.

It seems like I made her feel horrible and someone gave her attention which made her feel good. She admitted that much in MC. From everything that she has said, she does have a foot in the door of our marriage. She doesn't want to hurt me, she doesn't want our kids growing up in a broken home...


----------



## MyRevelation

I understand where you are ... you are reeling from all of this ... I get it. Just keep in mind what the experiences of other BH's have been and proceed with caution and watch for the tell tale signs that the MC is just stringing you all along and is really just FOS.

Right now your main mission should be to get out of infidelity and that means that your WW removes the OM completely from her/your life, or you remove WW from yours.

Priority NUMBER ONE is NO CONTACT ... without that, you're just thumb twiddling and navel gazing.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

So, I'm going to ask you to look at it differently.



> My second and wife had two online indiscretions, one before and one after we were married. I forgave, we worked through it, and things have been relatively great.


Forgiving someone doesn't make you forget NOR does it magically make the feelings go away. Personally, you need to ditch the marriage counselor and go get an Individual counselor. You need to find out why you needed to separate. You aren't a professional and can't diagnosis yourself with PTSD. You do know it could be even a simpler reason? You almost died from sepsis. Death will make you look at the world differently to the point, your mind may have said "why am I with a repeat cheater who, never took the marriage seriously?" Kind of interesting that she deals with problems by talking to other men. No, this is a third time, don't let your decision to separate be used as a tool to make you feel bad. 2 were her fault one was your fault, but the common denominator is she seeks validation from other men.


----------



## Hope1964

I agree. I highly doubt that your wife is going to change. She's done it 3 times now. In my world, after two you're OUT. I think you would be very wise to start moving toward D.

I forget if it's been asked but have you been STD tested?


----------



## DamagedGuy

I snot discounting the past with this current situation, and will bring it all up during the IC session. I know that a lot of MCs can be bad, but I was listening intently to the MC, and she wants us to save our marriage. She said that since we've known each other our whole lives and have been together for years and that my wife shouldn't throw it all away. She told my wife, who wants to be friends if we do ever divorce, that friendship isn't happening, that maybe after 2 years she could hope for some kind of friendship from me. MC really laid it out during this 1st session.

I have not been tested for STDs. I couldn't perform while on the opiates and we didn't try after that.

She told our son's morning nurse about the MC, and that the MC asked if we were in separate bedrooms. My wife told the nurse (nurse is close with us) that she isn't ready for us to be in the same bed, YET.

That is the thing. My wife is using words like "we," "us," "our(s)," and "yet," when she talks to me, our middle son (who is her stepson,) and to others.

We texted little bit this morning. She sent me a wink emote. I do not believe that she would purposefully string me along and hurt me. She did admit to me about the OM asking her out and that they text. I am going to try to look for clues and evidence to see if she has stopped.


----------



## MyRevelation

You don't look for clues and evidence of no contact ... you DEMAND IT and then verify it by routinely checking her phone and cross checking it against the phone bill to make sure she's not deleting texts/call records with the OM. 

This is a hard line in the sand for you ... tell her "I love you, but I refuse to share you ... you can choose OM or me and our family, but you can't have BOTH" and then ask her "Do you understand?" and make her verbalize her decision.

For me, this is all about self-respect, and I simply couldn't look at myself in the mirror knowing that I was competing for my WW while she was in a relationship with POSOM. Screw that noise ... she married YOU and if she wants a do over then at the very least she should respect your dignity enough to grant you a D on your terms before trading you in for another model.


----------



## Hope1964

DamagedGuy said:


> She did admit to me about the OM asking her out and that they text. I am going to try to look for clues and evidence to see if she has stopped.


This is FAR too passive................... You either demand - DEMAND - that she go complete no contact, and write up a contract for it - or she gets the hell out. There is none of this texting that she is doing allowed in YOUR marriage!!!!

Have you read this thread?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


----------



## DamagedGuy

I have read the thread, and I'm thinking hard about what everyone is saying. I'm not going to continue to fight if she,is going to keep a line on an OM. I'm going to talk with the MC on Tuesday and try to formulate a plan on the demand. I'm doing the best that I can, and I have seen marriages saved and become stronger through worse, and that is what I am thinking about. However, I am not going to be strung along if my wife does not commit to rebuilding our marriage.


----------



## Jessica38

DamagedGuy said:


> I approached her about reconciliation, after about a month of me working things out. We are in separate rooms, but under the same roof. She says she doesn't know that she feels the same way anymore. She contacted an old fling to "talk," and met him at least twice. She changed her facebook password. She told me that someone asked her out for coffee but that she said "I don't know." She admitted that they are texting "normal stuff."
> 
> She agreed to MC, and I set it up. Our first appointment is tonight. I don't know what to think. I tried explaining to her what I was going through, but it seemed like begging to her. I said that I'm not being weak, that I'm actually getting stronger everyday, that I regret what I did and that I hurt her and am trying to win back her heart and save our marriage and family.
> 
> Over at Marriage Builders, I was advised to use a VAR. I didn't pick up any conversations, so I put it in the car since she uses speakerphone and voice to text while driving. *I don't know how into the EA she is, or if she is having a PA.
> *
> I'm blaming myself for this. I haven't been right for a while. I told her that the man I was and the reasons why she fell in love with me are still there, that I am healing everyday.
> 
> I just don't know what to do, and I feel like she is checking out of our marriage.


You deeply hurt her and she will need time to decide what she wants. If she came here posting that her husband told her she should find someone else and he wants to separate, I'd advise her to focus on caring for herself to heal and move on. 

Your job now is to be the best husband you can be to her, letting her see how remorseful you are for what you put her through. Don't push her to heal. Be patient, kind, and loving. You're very lucky to be living under the same roof. You have more opportunities to make massive love deposits. Once she sees she can trust you again, she may be able to move forward with you. 

And you do need to find out how deep this possible EA has become. If another man is giving her attention, conversation, and showing her care and concern, she is very susceptible to developing feelings for him. She's at high risk of developing feelings for another man right now. 

I agree with the previous poster who said that MC is a waste of time. Since you're on MB, I'd recommend asking Dr. Harley for advice. His approach includes steps to take to improve the marriage instead of talking/hashing out negatives in the marriage.


----------



## straightshooter

[*QUOTE=GusPolinski;17982081]If she's in a relationship -- whether EA or PA -- with another man, MC will be a complete waste of both your time and your money.[/QUOTE]*


Why are you in therapy with a woman who will leave the office and than bang her boyfriend?????? While you sit there spitting out all your shortcomings in the marriage, she is free to have you and her boyfriend.

Not a recipe for success.

You mention her OM may be influencing her. You got that right. He wants to get laid.


----------



## Hope1964

DamagedGuy said:


> I am not going to be strung along if my wife does not commit to rebuilding our marriage.


Internalize this and re read it whenever you need to. It's VERY important!


----------



## MyRevelation

DamagedGuy said:


> I have read the thread, and I'm thinking hard about what everyone is saying. I'm not going to continue to fight if she,is going to keep a line on an OM. I'm going to talk with the MC on Tuesday and try to formulate a plan on the demand. I'm doing the best that I can, and I have seen marriages saved and become stronger through worse, and that is what I am thinking about. However, I am not going to be strung along if my wife does not commit to rebuilding our marriage.


This is a positive step in your mental approach, and I'm not trying to just bust your chops, but I'd like you to consider something. Now that you've found your backbone again, do you really want to give your WW another 4+ days to be in contact, have lunch, and maybe take this physical if it hasn't already?

I will tell you right now that your MC will not approve of ultimatums, for exactly the reason you need to use one ... they WORK to get you out of infidelity and she won't be able to jerk you around for another several weeks, while your WW amps things up with OM.

Ultimatums work best when delivered calmly and timely (think, like right NOW) and then are defended to the extreme. Try something like this:

DG: "WW, we need to talk. I love you, but I simply refuse to share you with another man. If you want to R, then you need to be all in right now and we will draft a NO CONTACT email to send to OM ... and make no mistake ... NC means NC FOREVER. By committing to our M, you agree to remove OM from our lives from now until the day one of us is planted. Do you understand?"

WW: "You can't choose who I'm friends with."

DG: "You're exactly right, but I can decide for myself to not remain in a M with 3 people. What'll it be?"


Seriously, either choice she makes gets YOU out of infidelity. Either she commits to remaining M to you and doing the work to R or you have her served and start the D process. Either of those choices beat the hell out of LIMBO, because there is a very ugly word to describe a BH who continues to live with a WW KNOWING that she's in a relationship with another man. Let THAT sink in ... then ACT!


----------



## Quality

MyRevelation said:


> This is a positive step in your mental approach, and I'm not trying to just bust your chops, but I'd like you to consider something. Now that you've found your backbone again, do you really want to give your WW another 4+ days to be in contact, have lunch, and maybe take this physical if it hasn't already?
> 
> I will tell you right now that your MC will not approve of ultimatums, for exactly the reason you need to use one ... they WORK to get you out of infidelity and she won't be able to jerk you around for another several weeks, while your WW amps things up with OM.
> 
> Ultimatums work best when delivered calmly and timely (think, like right NOW) and then are defended to the extreme. Try something like this:
> 
> DG: "WW, we need to talk. I love you, but I simply refuse to share you with another man. If you want to R, then you need to be all in right now and we will draft a NO CONTACT email to send to OM ... and make no mistake ... NC means NC FOREVER. By committing to our M, you agree to remove OM from our lives from now until the day one of us is planted. Do you understand?"
> 
> WW: "You can't choose who I'm friends with."
> 
> DG: "You're exactly right, but I can decide for myself to not remain in a M with 3 people. What'll it be?"
> 
> 
> Seriously, either choice she makes gets YOU out of infidelity. Either she commits to remaining M to you and doing the work to R or you have her served and start the D process. Either of those choices beat the hell out of LIMBO, because there is a very ugly word to describe a BH who continues to live with a WW KNOWING that she's in a relationship with another man. Let THAT sink in ... then ACT!


I find ultimatums DON'T WORK.

For example, according to the background notes I've read, MyRev gave his wife an ultimatum and drew a line in the sand and told his wife "no mas" but she still broke "no contact" with OM shortly thereafter, however briefly and they still reconciled. Plus myrev and his 2nd wife didn't have a newborn premie infant to worry about...he could draw such line and {pretty much} mean it whereas your wife, unjustiably, probably feels completely entitled to do what she wants and considering the baby and the recent separation ~ won't really believe you mean it. 

I read your thread at MB and have to say it's refreshing to see such positivity instead of the constant barrage of "divorce the worthless cheater than can never change" and the only way to maybe fix it by issuing ultimatums and hoping they coming crawling back begging your forgiveness.. Never seen it work, but it keeps getting posted. {this is certainly not universal on TAM just annoyingly common}.

I'm not saying you should sit back and do nothing and wait this out either. I agree with the basic premise {take actions, keep snooping and monitoring, demad "no contact"}; however, seeing how you separated and "released her" {and I understand why you did that ~ I'm not blaming you}, I just don't see your wife giving a crap about an "ultimatum". Then what? Are you REALLY going to give up and walk away? If not, you've back yourself into a corner where you appear weak and vulnerable because you throw out threats to manipulate her without REALLY meaning it. An ultimatum, MOST LIKELY, won't change her FEELING like she can do whatever she wants and remaining unsure and indecisive. If you follow through and quit, you still don't know what's actually going on {the truth about your life} and you're going to just give up?

I also don't like the idea of sitting back and hoping/trusting that the MC will fix things. If she's actually dating an OM {emotionally and|or physically enmeshed}, she'll only use MC to manipulate things to continue as they are until she can decide what she wants to do {which she'll never actually do}. 

Instead of an ultimatum, it's really more of a demand without the "or else". You don't have to decide or communicate what you'll do if she does continue contact with the OM just yet {especially because you don't even know what that contact actually entails} ~ you just tell her it has to stop and repeat yourself frequently and like myrev said, "no contact" being your first and only intial goal towards "working on your marriage" because you can't "work on your marriage" at all when another man is triangulating the process.

Keep interfering and not condoning it. Don't be her babysitter so she can date. Find out the truth and EXPOSE her and the OM and interfere as much as you can. Let OM know she's married and with a baby at home and he needs to get away from your family. Sure she'll get mad, but your marriage can survive her anger, it can't survive her continued affair.

Is your wife suffering any post-partum depression? This could be a contributing factor. A newborn premie that she really can't touch and "mother" yet while her hormones are crashing can just be a lot for many women.


----------



## straightshooter

MyRevelation said:


> This is a positive step in your mental approach, and I'm not trying to just bust your chops, but I'd like you to consider something. Now that you've found your backbone again, do you really want to give your WW another 4+ days to be in contact, have lunch, and maybe take this physical if it hasn't already?
> 
> I will tell you right now that your MC will not approve of ultimatums, for exactly the reason you need to use one ... they WORK to get you out of infidelity and she won't be able to jerk you around for another several weeks, while your WW amps things up with OM.
> 
> Ultimatums work best when delivered calmly and timely (think, like right NOW) and then are defended to the extreme. Try something like this:
> 
> DG: "WW, we need to talk. I love you, but I simply refuse to share you with another man. If you want to R, then you need to be all in right now and we will draft a NO CONTACT email to send to OM ... and make no mistake ... NC means NC FOREVER. By committing to our M, you agree to remove OM from our lives from now until the day one of us is planted. Do you understand?"
> 
> WW: "You can't choose who I'm friends with."
> 
> DG: "You're exactly right, but I can decide for myself to not remain in a M with 3 people. What'll it be?"
> 
> 
> Seriously, either choice she makes gets YOU out of infidelity. Either she commits to remaining M to you and doing the work to R or you have her served and start the D process. Either of those choices beat the hell out of LIMBO, because there is a very ugly word to describe a BH who continues to live with a WW KNOWING that she's in a relationship with another man. Let THAT sink in ... then ACT!



TOTAL NO CONTACT, IS THE FIRST REQUIREMENT, and you are wasting your time without that and it being verifiable. Now do not be surprised if your genius MC tells you she needs to gradually let him go. If this MC does not call her out on that you have just pissed away your money


----------



## MyRevelation

I was "Wondering" when ole Quality would show up with his MB vocabulary advocating his passive "Cuckholds R US" Plan A approach?

FTR ... in my situation NC was never broken. Not because my W didn't try for "closure" ... how ****ing sweet ... but I had already confronted OM and he knew I had him by the short and curlys and suddenly my W wasn't such the hot young catch he originally thought when he was faced with a PI delivering in person to his BW all the evidence I had. Somehow he never quite got around to responding to her "closure" attempts.

Look, it is clear that you salved over your hurt with a liberal helping of self-deception. If that's what DG wants, he is free to make that choice for himself, by as we say "taking what he can use and disregarding the rest".

What ... you're offended that I took a cheap shot at your so called "R"? Then learn from your mistake and don't start your cyber-stalking with me like you've tried before and with many others here.


----------



## Steve1000

lifeistooshort said:


> If I found out my hb had recorded me we'd be over.


That's because you are not involved with another man. If you were involved with another man and hid that from your husband, then your husband would be justified to use a VAR.

In this case, I think that the OP is NOT justified in using a VAR because his wife already told him that she's seeing another man.


----------



## DamagedGuy

She has not admitted to anything other than friendly text exchanges with a man she claims she did not go out on a date with. While that is hard for any of us to believe, it could be the truth without evidence to the contrary.

I hope she is not talking to him anymore. I will send a message to the MC about my fears.


----------



## syhoybenden

DamagedGuy said:


> I I know that a lot of MCs can be bad, but I was listening intently to the MC, and she wants us to save our marriage. .


That's what they tell her to say in community college night school. It keeps you on the line to keep paying her. THAT is what it's all about with MC's.


Check out the stats quoted at Marriagebuilders. They say that as a demographic group that Marriage Counselors have a higher rate of divorce than the general population.


----------



## Steve1000

DamagedGuy said:


> She has not admitted to anything other than friendly text exchanges with a man she claims she did not go out on a date with. While that is hard for any of has to believe, it could be the truth without evidence to the contrary.
> 
> I hope she is not talking to him anymore. I will send a message to the MC about my fears.


I reread your original post and saw that she didn't actually say that she is seeing another man. However, she has admitted at least two dates with an old fling. (see below) Dating an old fling "for talking only" is not realistic. I don't want to make you miserable, but the earlier you face the reality, the earlier that you can begin to recover. I still remember how painful and miserable this is and I will be happy for you when it's over.

She contacted an old fling to "talk," and met him at least twice. She changed her facebook password. She told me that someone asked her out for coffee but that she said "I don't know." She admitted that they are texting "normal stuff."

I want to add that you should not hate yourself too much for first wanting to separate from your wife. You were unable to make rational decisions for a few weeks and in my sincere opinion, your wife moved on very quickly.


----------



## MyRevelation

DamagedGuy said:


> I will send a message to the MC about my fears.


I'm sorry to read that. I thought we had made some headway in showing you how your MC doesn't know her ass from a sock top.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Dr. Harley has an article that indicates tthat there are good MCs.

The general consensus seems to be to run. This would make it my second failed marriage, a stepson from a previous R who views wife as mom, plus our bio son products of a broken home(s). 

This is an absolute nightmare.


----------



## Hope1964

OMG, breaking up because you're being cheated on isn't breaking your home, it's FIXING it!!

Read up on the no contact letter and demand that she do it with this guy that she's been texting.

Get Shirley Glass's 'Not Just Friends' and make her read it and you read it and discuss it AT LENGTH.

Demand accountability from her.

If she isn't willing to do all this stuff then she isn't willing to be the wife she SHOULD be. She isn't willing to do what faithful spouses do. She isn't willing to be FAITHFUL.

Do you REALLY want to be married to someone who isn't willing to be faithful? Do you REALLY think she isn't cheating?


----------



## Jessica38

DamagedGuy said:


> Dr. Harley has an article that indicates tthat there are good MCs.
> 
> The general consensus seems to be to run. This would make it my second failed marriage, a stepson from a previous R who views wife as mom, plus our bio son products of a broken home(s).
> 
> This is an absolute nightmare.


I learned _from_ Dr. Harley that most MC's have a dismal success rate and are often not equipped to save marriages. 

"In fact, I learned that marital therapy had the lowest success rate of any form of therapy - in one study, I read that less than 25% of those surveyed felt that marriage counseling had helped. A higher percentage felt that counseling had done more harm than good."

How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages

You CAN take steps to turn this around- but they do not include running away from your marriage (again).


----------



## DamagedGuy

I don't want to run away. 

She just came home and was hugging and kissing my son/her stepson. She was saying "our family." 

I wish that I would have asked about NC at the appointment to get it on the table. 

This is also difficult because even though I am better from the accident trauma, I am not at 100%, and I did separate, after all.

Ugh... I wish I could go back in time and punch myself... I know I was messed up, but it still happened, and she thought that I truly didn't want her anymore; that I was divorcing her. Before the accident, when I set my mind on something, that was it.


----------



## Jessica38

DamagedGuy said:


> I don't want to run away.
> 
> She just came home and was hugging and kissing my son/her stepson. She was saying "our family."
> 
> I wish that I would have asked about NC at the appointment to get it on the table.
> 
> This is also difficult because even though I am better from the accident trauma, I am not at 100%, and I did separate, after all.
> 
> Ugh... I wish I could go back in time and punch myself... I know I was messed up, but it still happened, and she thought that I truly didn't want her anymore; that I was divorcing her. Before the accident, when I set my mind on something, that was it.


I get that. Please remember this though. She's hurting. She needs to know you love and want her and your marriage. You told her you didn't- of course that did damage. 

MB can help you by following the plan to get your wife back. You have to prove to her that she can trust you again and have faith in your commitment to her and the marriage. She agreed to move back in with you. This is VERY encouraging. Keep up with showing her you are stronger and can be there for her again. I predict that if you give it your all and follow the MB plan, the marriage will be in a MUCH better place within months.


----------



## DamagedGuy

She didn't move out. We have been under the same roof, sleeping in separate rooms, and still are.

I'm doing my best to meet her EN's and continue to heal and improve myself.


----------



## MyRevelation

DG ... complete honesty here ... if you follow the MB plans, you will either wind up D'd or unable to look at yourself in the mirror due to complete loss of self-respect. MB was the place I originally landed after D-Day and the best thing I ever did was stand up to their BS enough to get banned from that site. FWIW, this is the same advice I would give to my son if he were in a similar situation. IMHO, there is no greater fraud in the internet infidelity forum world than the Harley's and their groupies with their BS "plans". Some women seem to be drawn to their nonsense, but its LIMBO HELL for BH's. Proceed with MB at your own risk.


----------



## Jessica38

DamagedGuy said:


> She didn't move out. We have been under the same roof, sleeping in separate rooms, and still are.
> 
> I'm doing my best to meet her EN's and continue to heal and improve myself.


Pick a plan and stick to it. Men who have done worse than you have been able to turn their marriages around. I think you can do it but it's going to take strength, effort, and humbleness on your part.


----------



## Jessica38

MyRevelation said:


> DG ... complete honesty here ... if you follow the MB plans, you will either wind up D'd or unable to look at yourself in the mirror due to complete loss of self-respect. MB was the place I originally landed after D-Day and the best thing I ever did was stand up to their BS enough to get banned from that site. FWIW, this is the same advice I would give to my son if he were in a similar situation. IMHO, there is no greater fraud in the internet infidelity forum world than the Harley's and their groupies with their BS "plans". Some women seem to be drawn to their nonsense, but its LIMBO HELL for BH's. Proceed with MB at your own risk.


If my son deeply hurt his wife by telling her he wanted to separate and that she should find someone else, I'd have a lot more to say to him than offering him pity for his wife making a male friend after the fact, however inappropriate. Remember: he put HER in limbo hell first.


----------



## MyRevelation

Jessica38 said:


> If my son deeply hurt his wife by telling her he wanted to separate and that she should find someone else, I'd have a lot more to say to him than offering him pity for his wife making a male friend after the fact, however inappropriate. Remember: he put HER in limbo hell first.


... and from my understanding, DG was in a pain killer induced stupor when he made some irrational demands. I'm sorry, but his WW gets no sympathy on the "in sickness and in health" or the "foresaking all others" front from me.

... and none of the above have anything to do with the complete cluster that the MB plans are for BH's.


----------



## syhoybenden

In my opinion Marriagebuilders is a good guide for a stable marriage and ways to keep it stable.

ON THE OTHER HAND, when it comes to damage control .... In a nutshell here is a synopsis of Marriagebuilders Plan A ..... Let your WW kick you in the nuts as hard as she can until until her foot gets sore. Then prostrate yourself upon the ground and beg forgiveness for hurting her foot and promise that you'll never do it again if only she will stay with you, no questions asked.


----------



## Jessica38

MyRevelation said:


> ... and from my understanding, DG was in a pain killer induced stupor when he made some irrational demands. I'm sorry, but his WW gets no sympathy from me on the "in sickness and in health" or the "foresaking all others" front from me.


I see your point. Not sure what the right answer is here. Pain-killer addiction is becoming the new face of drug addiction. I'm not sure that spouses who are emotionally terrorized by their spouses on pain-killers are necessarily wandering when told to find another partner because they are no longer wanted. 

In many cases, I'm the first one to say texting with the OS is inappropriate. BUT when told by the spouse that they are no longer wanted and that the marriage is over....I'm just not sure she fits the description of a wandering spouse. 

I see both sides on this one.

* just re-read the OP's first post and he said he was off pain-killers by the time her told her he wanted to separate, but still in crisis. I stand by what I said- if a husband tells his wife in crisis that the marriage is over, is she obligated to separate and wait for him to come to his senses? THAT sounds like limbo-hell to me, not the fact that she made a guy friend over coffee after her husband told her to find someone else.


----------



## Quality

DamagedGuy said:


> Dr. Harley has an article that indicates tthat there are good MCs.
> 
> The general consensus seems to be to run. This would make it my second failed marriage, a stepson from a previous R who views wife as mom, plus our bio son products of a broken home(s).
> 
> This is an absolute nightmare.


That is not the "general consensus".

Just the opinion of several posters on the internet that you don't know, your wife or your baby. 

Other posters encouraged you to TRY because until any and all "other men" are out of the picture and "no contact" is in place for 3 or 4 weeks, you really don't know whether you can save the marriage or not. 

She may divorce you for whatever reason in the process of you trying to interfere or otherwise bust up her affair. We can't direct or help her choices and she's free to leave you if she wants; however, I've seen plenty of recoveries to know that it's impossible to predict any new situation and what can happen. There's a baby counting on you too, so maybe it's wise not to jump to conclusions too quickly, exhaust all efforts to save it's family. 

Keep snooping. Don't ask her to tell you the truth because she won't. Divorce or not, you need to know the truth.


----------



## Hope1964

Jessica38 said:


> if a husband tells his wife in crisis that the marriage is over, is she obligated to separate and wait for him to come to his senses? THAT sounds like limbo-hell to me, not the fact that she made a guy friend over coffee after her husband told her to find someone else.


If she's so spaced out that she actually thought he meant it, then he should divorce her on principle alone. She used his condition as an excuse, nothing more. She isn't the poor little mistreated girl you seem to think, *I* don't think.


----------



## DamagedGuy

She did say that she thinks that I am holding something back as my reason to want to reconcile, that maybe someone told me to get my head out of my rear before I lose her forever. I don't think that she is convinced that I am sincere.

Her wording could indicate the budding relationship as a lose her forever scenario, or that she is in full blown affair mode. I think that she would assume that if I knew that she was in a full blown affair, that I might agree to a divorce. However, she wouldn't want to look bad, either.

She wants to remain friends. When I am of sound mind, I have a way of sniffing out the truth. She can't really assume that I would want to stay friends of she is being deceptive.

Things have been positive since the appointment, and I just need to be vigilant about OMs, work on myself, and keep going as though we can work this out, while preparing myself to deal with it and accept it if it cannot, and if that is the case, prepare a NC plan.


----------



## Quality

Jessica38 said:


> I see your point. Not sure what the right answer is here. Pain-killer addiction is becoming the new face of drug addiction. I'm not sure that spouses who are emotionally terrorized by their spouses on pain-killers are necessarily wandering when told to find another partner because they are no longer wanted.
> 
> In many cases, I'm the first one to say texting with the OS is inappropriate. BUT when told by the spouse that they are no longer wanted and that the marriage is over....I'm just not sure she fits the description of a wandering spouse.
> 
> I see both sides on this one.
> 
> * just re-read the OP's first post and he said he was off pain-killers by the time her told her he wanted to separate, but still in crisis. I stand by what I said- if a husband tells his wife in crisis that the marriage is over, is she obligated to separate and wait for him to come to his senses? THAT sounds like limbo-hell to me, not the fact that she made a guy friend over coffee after her husband told her to find someone else.



As Chris Rock says: "I'm not saying it's right, but I understand".

Telling his wife who recently had a baby {don't recall but presume it was after the baby}and who just spent a lot of time taking care of him and their business {while pregnant, I presume} to go and verbally releasing her to date was a mistake. Doesn't matter what condition he was in or what drugs, he's a man and like everyone, responsible for his choices and behavior. I also don't believe we are talking about someone changing their mind, or waking up and apologizing the next morning and the wife saying "no take backs". This choice lasted a little bit before he changed his mind. To his wife, it might just appear he's just had a change of heart because she took him at his word and starting dating and now he's just jealous and wants to control her {and therefore really doesn't love and cherish her ~ this is just "keeping" her like a possession}.

Again, there are reasons but not excuses.

Also I'm not saying she's entitled to date ~ she's clearly still married and though I can understand her likely reasoning as well {were she here}, his behavior wouldn't justify her dating and pursuing other men {the extent of which we don't even really know yet}.


----------



## Dyokemm

This "new" OM who asked her out and she has been 'casually' texting seems to have distracted you from the old fling she met up with twice.

You really need to find out exactly what went on with this guy.....why he suddenly reappeared.....met twice.....and has seemingly disappeared again.

Did the 'old' fling become new again?....and then he bolted after he got what he wanted?

Did she stop seeing him because he pushed her for sex and she said no?.....but if this is what happened, why did she seemingly continue looking for another OM with this new turd?

Look....this is potentially FOUR OM now.....and the last two you have zero idea of what exactly you are really dealing with.

You need some answers quick before you can truly decide what course you want for the future.

If either of these last two were anything more than 'casual' conversation, then you need to RUN from this woman......

You were literally almost a textbook definition of the 'in sickness and in health' part of M vows.....if she abandoned the M with either an EA or PA with this situation, then you need to get out ASAP.

And forget the future friends crap after infidelity.....this seems to be a particular fantasy many WS have.....that somehow the person they stabbed in the back will want to remain close and confidential with them after the D.......its a sign of how delusional they truly are.


----------



## Quality

DamagedGuy said:


> She did say that she thinks that I am holding something back as my reason to want to reconcile, that maybe someone told me to get my head out of my rear before I lose her forever. I don't think that she is convinced that I am sincere.
> 
> Her wording could indicate the budding relationship as a lose her forever scenario, or that she is in full blown affair mode. I think that she would assume that if I knew that she was in a full blown affair, that I might agree to a divorce. However, she wouldn't want to look bad, either.
> 
> She wants to remain friends. When I am of sound mind, I have a way of sniffing out the truth. She can't really assume that I would want to stay friends of she is being deceptive.
> 
> Things have been positive since the appointment, and I just need to be vigilant about OMs, work on myself, and keep going as though we can work this out, while preparing myself to deal with it and accept it if it cannot, and if that is the case, prepare a NC plan.


Again, this is what I just said, perhaps what she thinks you are holding back is your honest motivation.

She's wondering "Does he REALLY cherish and want me, or is this just to keep me on the farm as an option and he's just jealous of me seeking out other men".

And, if she IS actually full blown wayward, expect this thought pattern to lead her to eventually to the following rationalization and justification: "you're too late ~ you had your chance ~ if you wanted me so bad you already had the chance to prove that and now I want to pursue my relationship with OM and you ONLY want me cause I want him. If I come back to you and leave OM, you'll just revert back to the way you treated me before. I demand time and space to figure out what I want ~ for a change"

Unfortunately, adulterers never get around to really figuring out "what they truly want" so that just leaves you both stuck in limbo until the affair either fizzles out on its own or one of you pursues a divorce. That's why doing nothing, paralyzed in fear, feeling guilty for your bad choices is such an awful plan and the affair needs to be busted up actively.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I never treated her badly before the accident. I didn't find out about her contacting the old fling until after I approached her to reconcile, and it was a few days later that she admitted to being asked out, not giving him an answer, and then casually texting. She didn't have to tell me that, and even asked her why she did, but did not get an answer.

There is the possibility that she has not formed an emotional attachment or had sex with anyone, yet.

She also could have said no to the MC and legally separated. The investigation seems to indicate that she truly is torn, that the situation hurts when it comes to thinking about leaving for good.


----------



## GuyInColorado

Simple... keep working on being a better person and a better husband. Also, keep going to the counselor at least once a week for a while. Lastly, start snooping around. You need to put a VAR in her car and try to get access to her cell phone. Can you view her cell phone bill? Is it a work phone?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Personally, I'd never attend a counselor with a bias one way or another. I want a counselor who will give me advice which benefits us both, even if it means ending the marriage or reconciliation even if I am against it. A "pro-marriage" counselor is counter intuitive to me. 

Don't play the wages of sin game. Yes you hurt her, but she hurt you TWICE. Then when she was hurt, she did the same act AGAIN. Nope, there is ZERO excuse for repeating marriage damaging behavior three times, NO MATTER what you did. I do enjoy your wife saying YOU are holding something back and posters blaming you, while ignoring her past. If we are going to play the "wages of sin" game remember, you gave her the gift or reconciliation when she hurt you twice, but she gave you the gift of another man when you hurt her.

You are going to be guilt tripped like you wouldn't believe and I'm not going to derail a thread while it happens. 

I hope you get the outcome you deserve which allows you to be happy.

Edit:

Go read a thread by gridcom.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I honestly do not think that with how we had grown as a couple, that I would have to worry about an OM until I did what I did. Even if she had changed and her past was no longer an issue, I ripped that open. 

The phone bills are online only and I'm pretty sure that she has changed her passwords after I confronted her about talking to the married old fling. Unless a VAR picks up something, or,she,leaves a diary laying around, someone tells me what's going on, or if magically find her with someone, I may never know. Maybe the MC will convince her to come clean if she has done anything.

She sometimes forgets her phone when she is in a rush. I'm not keeping my hopes up for that, right now. MC did, predictably, tell me via text that I just have to trust that my wife will do the right thing, and that I should not ask for a NC just yet, because of our assignment. I do know that my wife is working on what the MC said. She doesn't know that I know.

Edit: Thanks, Philly. I will work on myself to prepare for either outcome. Life must go on. I,will forgive myself at some point, and my guilt will dissipate.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

DamagedGuy said:


> I honestly do not think that with how we had grown as a couple, that I would have to worry about an OM until I did what I did. Even if she had changed and her past was no longer an issue, I ripped that open.


If you had grown as a couple, she'd have fought to keep you. She would not chase another MARRIED MAN, she's so hurt she risked another marriage, because she needs validation. Fix you, then you can see about fixing the marriage. Yep, counter intuitive, but you can't fix a marriage if you are both broken.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Half way through the split time frame before I said I wanted to reconcile, she,was hoping I would change at come back to her. She changed after the half-way mark. I am assuming this is because of the good-feelings from being asked out after the horrible feelings I made her feel. 

I still don't know that she has sex with married guy. I don't think OM is him. If I find out otherwise, the wife of that man will get a private message, a FB transcript, and whatever evidence I have. If she is having EA/PA with a married dude, I will expose it.

I been slowly working in some exercising. This will not only make me more attractive, it will help me get my energy and muscle tone back. It will also make my mind sharper, and my sleep easier, especially if I can find acceptance that my marriage might not make it.

I will also focus on my music and writing, and making money from home. I will continue to socialize, even when I feel down. I will start reading again and practice driving with my drop foot and shattered leg situation. I'm walking more and more without a cane, and will continue physical therapy.

I will get past this, regardless of the outcome. Other than my messed up actions, I'm well respected amongst different circles. I will treat my wife well and will properly handle the situation if there is affair evidence. I have to accept that divorce may not be off of the table. I will beat this.


----------



## straightshooter

DamagedGuy said:


> I never treated her badly before the accident. I didn't find out about her contacting the old fling until after I approached her to reconcile, and it was a few days later that she admitted to being asked out, not giving him an answer, and then casually texting. She didn't have to tell me that, and even asked her why she did, but did not get an answer.
> 
> There is the possibility that she has not formed an emotional attachment or had sex with anyone, yet.
> 
> She also could have said no to the MC and legally separated. The investigation seems to indicate that she truly is torn, that the situation hurts when it comes to thinking about leaving for good.


So you're going to play the Dr. Hartley pick me game and wait for her to decide if she wants to keep texting OM or meeting him. Why do you need a therapist to tell her if she wants to remain married to you that she cannot have a boyfriend????

This ridiculous Dr Hartley plan that you should let her affair continue uninterrupted hoping it burns itself out and woo her is also followed in his book by noting that very few men can stomach the gut wrenching hurt that watching that for six months or more entails.

You are ASKING her to stop talking to him, not telling her its a condition of remaining your wife. Keep following Dr. Hartley you'll be destroyed mentally and without your wife when its all over


----------



## DamagedGuy

I am seeing how she is with me between now and Tuesday while I continue my investigation. Since she is open to MC and has given reasons why working on the marriage would be good, I want to hear from the MC during my IC if she has a plan, and strongly express that I need my wife to guarantee that she cut off OM or I feel MC will not work, and that without a plan of action, I will have to directly ask my wife to stop and for assurance that she has.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Well, perseverance pays off. The VAR picked up a man's voice, and later a voice-to-text to the man. It was a man that my wife reached out to on Facebook during the separation. At that point, It was all of the evidence that I needed.

I couldn't help myself, and I woke her up at 1 am to confront her. I was surprisingly not anxious. I was angry, but collected. She was in disbelief. She wouldn't tell me his name, so I grabbed her phone and locked myself into the bathroom. There were no texts between them (she later admitted to deleting them in case I got a hold of her phone.) However, she sent a screenshot of the man's FB page to her enabling friend, which showed that he was in a relationship with someone else, and said she was done.

However, she was not done, and admitted to sexting, and that they kissed last night, admitting that she felt something while kissing him that she hasn't felt in a long time. She is swearing up and down that they didn't have physical sex, saying it doesn't matter what happens because I won't believe her. I have no way to prove either way.

I was going off about it because I felt like she was stringing me along with my feelings and the MC, and the lies. She started weeping, saying that she thought that I was done and never coming back to her. 

I have to take responsibility for that. Regardless of what happened after, she felt rejected, hurt, worthless, and with a void. I honestly believe that if I had my head on straight, this wouldn't have happened. I have never seen her cry like that before. 

Before we talked and while I was in the bathroom looking at her phone, she was saying, "Do you want to work on this marriage?" I told her not to blackmail me.

Later, after we both calmed down, I asked her what she really wanted; why did she agree to MC; what is going on... She kept saying that she didn't know.

I said that I take responsibility for the separation, that I don't blame her for reaching out to OM. I said that it hurt, but that I was more upset that she lied, and saw him after our MC appointment.

I said that a part it me wants to begin a nasty divorce, but that despite everything, I still love her. I said that we have only two choices: divorce, or rebuild our marriage with no exes in our lives, transparency (because I would rather move on than deal with this, ever again,) and that OM must be out of the picture. I said OM in picture dooms any plan to work on us.

She said that she was leaning towards working on us, especially given that I am remorseful over what I did, but that she doesn't know how to make the hurt from what I did to go away.

We were up until 5 am. I slept for 4 hours and couldn't get back to sleep. I went to her room, and she woke up about when I did. She showed me a text from OM saying good morning beautiful, or some such.

She indicated that she is angry and annoyed with me. I expected this. She said that she wants,to go to MC for IC to work on herself, regardless of what happens. She repeated that she didn't know what she wanted. She can't shake what I said. She said OM was someone she could keep at a distance. 

I listened to her, and acknowledged what she was saying and feeling. I repeated our options. I,said that with help, I believed that we could get past everything and begin anew, but that we would have to be on the same page. She said that she will commit to seeing if we can repair the damage and fix us. She asked if I could get past her kissing OM. I said that it hurt, but that I could. I asked her the same about the things that I said. She said she didn't know. 

She said that maybe one of us should go away for a couple of days. I did not agree, thinking that that would be a bad idea. She said that she needed to think how to tell OM that they couldn't talk to or see each other so that she can work on our marriage. She said that she would do the same with the old fling she talked to. I asked if I could see the texts and responses, and she said, "Whatever you want, DamagedGuy." She wanted to be left alone.

It is a messed up situation. I don't know if we can come back from all of this. I know that there is a possibility. I have seen many cases of couples getting through a lot worse. I can't help but be paranoid that she may find a way around things to see OM, but that is a rational fear. She doesn't know how I know what I know. I think that I will have easier access to her phone now, but I won't be able to always account for whereabouts, burner phones, secret apps, etc.

She had an out, but she is agreeing to see if we,can fix this. I don't know what to think, but I actually feel relieved that I wasn't going crazy; that I know that she was in the very beginning of involvement with an OM.


----------



## Quality

As soon as you can, go to OM's facebook page and screenshot his friend's list. If his friends are private, open up any public photos and screenshot the list of people that "like" or "love" the photo. You'll need this for exposure ~ the next step on MB's plan A and you'll need those names and screenshots NOW in case OM shuts his page down completely soon in fear you'll use it to search him out. Might be able to identify his girlfriend too. 

Your wife wants "closure" with OM but "closure" very rarely happens that easily or quickly.

"One of you going away for a couple days" was code for she wants to spend a few days with OM ~ so she can weigh her options, OM or you. You did well not to agree with that. She'll likely keep insisting she needs to talk to OM in person under the auspices of ending it; however, if he hasn't yet, OM will use any meeting to close the deal he's invested so much effort into closing. They can't meet. 

No matter what she TELLS you, keep watching and monitoring her actions and stick to your plan.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I can get access to his friend list as it turns out, we have 5 mutual friends. She swears that he doesn't know anything about the length of time separated, MC, or that I wanted to reconcile. I don't know what to believe.

She said she is willing to cut off all contact with OM and past fling. She is willing to work on our marriage if I don't hurt their SO's with exposure. I'm weighing how to deal with this. 

I want accountability so that I am not paranoid. She doesn't know how I know things, but since I knew specific words that were said, I think that she will be vigilant if she wants to remain deceptive. I need to ask her to check in with me. I will need to access her phone location info.

She said that she will draft something to end contact with OM. If she is truthful, she isn't going to see him. She really wants to avoid involving his SO.

She is distant right now. I don't know how any of this is going to work. OM is a player who is physically larger/more muscular than me which is probably more attractive to her since I hurt her, and I am shorter and my muscles atrophied as a result of my accident. She felt some kind of spark when they kissed. Even with OM out of the picture, I can't help but feel that I will be in competition with him.

She feels smothered. I don't know how to make a plan to save this.


----------



## Stang197

DamagedGuy said:


> I can get access to his friend list as it turns out, we have 5 mutual friends. She swears that he doesn't know anything about the length of time separated, MC, or that I wanted to reconcile. I don't know what to believe.
> 
> She said she is willing to cut off all contact with OM and past fling. She is willing to work on our marriage if I don't hurt their SO's with exposure. I'm weighing how to deal with this.
> 
> I want accountability so that I am not paranoid. She doesn't know how I know things, but since I knew specific words that were said, I think that she will be vigilant if she wants to remain deceptive. I need to ask her to check in with me. I will need to access her phone location info.
> 
> She said that she will draft something to end contact with OM. If she is truthful, she isn't going to see him. She really wants to avoid involving his SO.
> 
> She is distant right now. I don't know how any of this is going to work. OM is a player who is physically larger/more muscular than me which is probably more attractive to her since I hurt her, and I am shorter and my muscles atrophied as a result of my accident. She felt some kind of spark when they kissed. Even with OM out of the picture, I can't help but feel that I will be in competition with him.
> 
> She feels smothered. I don't know how to make a plan to save this.


She is playing you bro. Expose now. You gotta man up and show her your not going to sit back and let her have this affair.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

She had contact with OM AFTER you went to MC, AFTER you told her you wanted to get back together.

She says she "DOESN'T" know where she wants to be??

EXPOSE!! She sat in MC office & LIED to you AND the MC.

Life has crapped on you, and the sh!t storm ain't over yet. Focus on yourself. Get stronger. The fact you tolerated her saying she wanted "Alone time", makes you appear weak.

ps- "alone time", when OM is anywhere within a 3 state radius, means "I gotto go taste the sausage"

YEAH, you screwed up when you told her you wanted to separate. But you can't let her continually use your guilt to go screw OM.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I'm having a difficult time. I know exposure or not, I need to back off from her. Nothing I say matters. She says that maybe we can't be fixed, maybe she can never heal from my words and actions, maybe she will never feel intimate with me, that maybe it is too late, but that just doesn't know for sure, either way.

I could just give up and divorce. I could expose, and she will give up, more angry than she is now, and divorce. I could test the waters and see what she does, while improving myself and preparing for the possibility that I will not have my wife in my life, and that I will have to move on. The MC might actually be able,to guide us back together and to build a stronger marriage. The MC might not.

I hear what everyone is saying, but the state that I am in is making things difficult. I never felt fear until I snapped out of the state I was in and realized that I may have ruined things for good. Things are so uncertain and dark right now.


----------



## DamagedGuy

And she keeps telling me that in her mind, we were over for good, based on how I was and what I said.


----------



## syhoybenden

Expose now! You need more sets of eyes watching them.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

@DamagedGuy , I understand your fear. But fear is the problem. Your wife can sense your fear. And right now she is in "shopping" mode. 

One of the most important things I learned when I came to TAM was this - "You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it" It's not logical, yet it was were I had to get to.

How would your wife react if you "Weren't sure", after you were texting / sexting with some other woman? After she told you that she wanted to work on your marriage and go to MC?

Make yourself stronger, and make it very clear. You BOTH are all in, or all OUT. That means going NC, you have access to phones, FB, whatever you ask for.

BUT, you also have to consider that fact that she had no problem lying to you and MC. I admit, I am projecting a bit here. My wife lied while sitting in pastor's office to me and pastor. How long will it take to re-establish trust.

I had a relative that had a steady long term bf, she started to text / chat with another guy online. The BF tried to nice her back. Finally, BF had enough & had a big blowout. But by then she was totally in the OM camp.

She said later that if BF would have "showed he cared" by blowing up earlier, she would have stopped.

Karma paid a visit, she now has no one.


----------



## syhoybenden

Oh yeah, and what she keeps telling you is a boool-sheeeet excuse for her wandering eye.

Might mention to her, 'Say honey, what was the thing in our wedding vows about 'in sickness and in health' ? D'ya think that covers traumatic personal injury and recovery and related depression? Stuff you could have HELPED me with??'


----------



## DamagedGuy

I was,going through periods of high energy/mania during the separation month. She thought I was happier. When she was around me when I had depressive low-points, she thought that I was angry with her. She didn't see me as someone who still had issues. She saw me as someone who was rejecting her, making her feel worthless, who didn't like her any more, and that there was no more hope for us. This is why OM came into the picture. She sought to fill the void that I created. I know it sounds like excuses, but there it is. It is a mess. She found out about his GF, and he played her.


----------



## Ckone1800

DamagedGuy said:


> I was,going through periods of high energy/mania during the separation month. She thought I was happier. When she was around me when I had depressive low-points, she thought that I was angry with her. She didn't see me as someone who still had issues. She saw me as someone who was rejecting her, making her feel worthless, who didn't like her any more, and that there was no more hope for us. This is why OM came into the picture. She sought to fill the void that I created. I know it sounds like excuses, but there it is. It is a mess. She found out about his GF, and he played her.




If this was even true, then why wouldn't she end the marriage so that she can be free to pursue the OM? 

It doesn't just sound like an excuse, it is one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lucy999

DamagedGuy said:


> She had asked before the separation of we could do that when I get personal injury money. After telling her I was in crisis and want to save our marriage, I said that I want to go away with her.


I'm still stuck on this little tidbit. This was a very strange thing for her to say.

And, do you realize that kissing means that they had sex? There is no way that they didn't get together a couple of times and not have sex. And sorry, she doesn't get time to decide anything. Either she wants your marriage to work or she doesn't. You're still doing the Pick Me dance. 

Of course she is distant from you. She is pissed that you found out. She is pissed that you broke up her little love affair. She is doubly pissed that the OM cheated on her. 

ETA: And her telling you that she needs to think about how she's going to break up with the OM? All of that is BS. There shouldn't be any thinking involved. You just do it if you genuinely want to work on your marriage. It's not that difficult a task. It does not need to be a Treatise of a breakup. The thing is, she doesn't want to break it off.


----------



## DamagedGuy

She claims that she didn't want to hurt me. I told her that it hurt, either way. I don't know why she would delay, agree to MC, or even be around me if I hurt her so bad that the marriage is over and she needs an OM.

There is the relationship she has with the son I have from a previous relationship, but I don't want to be strung along in a fake family situation if that is the case.

She needs to open up to me so that I have more information on where she is going with this, since I'm 50/50 on things. I'm trying to be nice, but demanding to know if she is going to recommit, or divorce. I think she feels bad because she knows now that I was not being myself when I separated, and that she began to explore the OM option, and is now torn.


----------



## lucy999

DamagedGuy said:


> She claims that she didn't want to hurt me. I told her that it hurt, either way. I don't know why she would delay, agree to MC, or even be around me if I hurt her so bad that the marriage is over and she needs an OM.


I apologize if I missed this, but what is the status of your personal injury settlement?


----------



## DamagedGuy

I'm waiting on the supplemental. I'm not spending any of it on her. I am paying off some mutual debts so that I can have a clean slate if we split.

I missed your above post. I assume that they had sex, but no matter what is said, even when I feigned evidence that I did, she is adamant that they have not gone that far, but that the other stuff did.

I think she will talk to the MC about it. I'm not sure how long I'm going to tolerate the situation. I will explain to the MC on Tuesday what I know and that I cannot move forward unless my wife commits to trying to save the marriage, and is completely honest.


----------



## aine

DamagedGuy said:


> I can get access to his friend list as it turns out, we have 5 mutual friends. She swears that he doesn't know anything about the length of time separated, MC, or that I wanted to reconcile. I don't know what to believe.
> 
> She said she is willing to cut off all contact with OM and past fling. She is willing to work on our marriage if I don't hurt their SO's with exposure. I'm weighing how to deal with this.
> 
> I want accountability so that I am not paranoid. She doesn't know how I know things, but since I knew specific words that were said, I think that she will be vigilant if she wants to remain deceptive. I need to ask her to check in with me. I will need to access her phone location info.
> 
> She said that she will draft something to end contact with OM. If she is truthful, she isn't going to see him. She really wants to avoid involving his SO.
> 
> She is distant right now. I don't know how any of this is going to work. OM is a player who is physically larger/more muscular than me which is probably more attractive to her since I hurt her, and I am shorter and my muscles atrophied as a result of my accident. She felt some kind of spark when they kissed. Even with OM out of the picture, I can't help but feel that I will be in competition with him.
> 
> She feels smothered. I don't know how to make a plan to save this.



Expose her and him to SO regardless of her pleas and promises. Never listen to a liar, be strong and take control. Tell her you have no reason to believe a word she says and you are taking action. The OM's wife is entitled to know what has been happening it is the right thing to do, she wouldn't understand that and she has no say in the matter. Don/t be afraid to upset her, she will respect you taking control.


----------



## DamagedGuy

She told OM they can't talk anymore and that I know that they saw each other and that she doesn't know how I know.

I have to worry about her turning evil if I expose. There are ways she could force me out of the house. I'm weighing options. I have a feeling that she is going to exit the marriage regardless.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

DamagedGuy said:


> She told OM they can't talk anymore and that I know that they saw each other and that she doesn't know how I know.
> 
> I have to worry about her turning evil if I expose. There are ways she could force me out of the house. I'm weighing options. I have a feeling that she is going to exit the marriage regardless.


Never reveal HOW you know!

See an attorney ASAP. Take care of yourself!

File for divorce, until she starts showing remorse and choosing you, YOU need to move forward for yourself.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I did not reveal my investigative techniques.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> She can't really assume that I would want to stay friends of she is being deceptive.


Of course she can. In fact, statistically speaking, she is MORE likely to assume that.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> I could expose, and she will give up, more angry than she is now, and divorce.


Just because you expose doesn't mean she will go straight to divorce. And if she DOES, then you have dodged a bullet because she'll have proved she doesn't love you, only wants your convenience.

Either way exposure helps you get your life back.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> I have to worry about her turning evil if I expose. There are ways she could force me out of the house.


Good grief. So protect yourself. Carry a recorder in your pocket at all times. Tell everyone you know that you're afraid she's going to frame you and kick you out of the house. Tell her parents what you're dealing with. Hire a lawyer so you get the ball rolling to protect yourself from getting kicked out of the house. Tell the cops she's unstable and you're afraid she's going to frame you. DOCUMENT, ok? Stop making excuses for being the strong man you need to be.


----------



## EleGirl

DamagedGuy said:


> Dr. Harley has an article that indicates tthat there are good MCs.
> 
> The general consensus seems to be to run. This would make it my second failed marriage, a stepson from a previous R who views wife as mom, plus our bio son products of a broken home(s).
> 
> This is an absolute nightmare.


You need to take into consideration that here on TAM, most posters advocate for immediate divorce and no attempt at all to save a marriage if there is infidelity.

Whether or not you choose to try to save your marriage is up to you, not the people posting here on TAM. So if reconciliation is what you want to try for, YOU need to be very clear about that to the people posting to you.

Did you read the book?


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> She needs to open up to me so that I have more information on where she is going with this, since I'm 50/50 on things. I'm trying to be nice, but demanding to know if she is going to recommit, or divorce.


Good grief.

Are you even READING the advice you're getting? We have seen hundreds of men in your shoes, and the ONLY ones who end up getting fair treatment are the men who stand up for themselves, STOP 'being nice,' and TELL the wife what the WIFE would have to do for him to even consider not raking her over the coals.

Expose now. PLEASE.


----------



## EleGirl

syhoybenden said:


> In my opinion Marriagebuilders is a good guide for a stable marriage and ways to keep it stable.
> 
> ON THE OTHER HAND, when it comes to damage control .... In a nutshell here is a synopsis of Marriagebuilders Plan A ..... Let your WW kick you in the nuts as hard as she can until until her foot gets sore. Then prostrate yourself upon the ground and beg forgiveness for hurting her foot and promise that you'll never do it again if only she will stay with you, no questions asked.


That might be your interpretation of MB material. But there are a lot of people out there who have been helped to restore their marriage, made it better and are in good strong marriages, post affair.

MB might not have worked for you. But it has for many people.


----------



## EleGirl

Hope1964 said:


> If she's so spaced out that she actually thought he meant it, then he should divorce her on principle alone. She used his condition as an excuse, nothing more. She isn't the poor little mistreated girl you seem to think, *I* don't think.


He was off the meds when he told her that he was separating and divorcing her. Why wouldn't she believe him?

She's being vilified here because she believed what he told her? This is beyond ridiculous. I've seen thread after thread on TAM telling people to believe it when their spouse says that they are separating and divorcing. I've even seen people encourage them to start dating.

This is no different. He told her that he was done. She believed him. Again, why wouldn't she?


----------



## EleGirl

DamagedGuy said:


> Well, perseverance pays off. The VAR picked up a man's voice, and later a voice-to-text to the man. It was a man that my wife reached out to on Facebook during the separation. At that point, It was all of the evidence that I needed.
> 
> I couldn't help myself, and I woke her up at 1 am to confront her. I was surprisingly not anxious. I was angry, but collected. She was in disbelief. She wouldn't tell me his name, so I grabbed her phone and locked myself into the bathroom. There were no texts between them (she later admitted to deleting them in case I got a hold of her phone.) However, she sent a screenshot of the man's FB page to her enabling friend, which showed that he was in a relationship with someone else, and said she was done.
> 
> However, she was not done, and admitted to sexting, and that they kissed last night, admitting that she felt something while kissing him that she hasn't felt in a long time. She is swearing up and down that they didn't have physical sex, saying it doesn't matter what happens because I won't believe her. I have no way to prove either way.
> 
> I was going off about it because I felt like she was stringing me along with my feelings and the MC, and the lies. She started weeping, saying that she thought that I was done and never coming back to her.
> 
> I have to take responsibility for that. Regardless of what happened after, she felt rejected, hurt, worthless, and with a void. I honestly believe that if I had my head on straight, this wouldn't have happened. I have never seen her cry like that before.
> 
> Before we talked and while I was in the bathroom looking at her phone, she was saying, "Do you want to work on this marriage?" I told her not to blackmail me.
> 
> Later, after we both calmed down, I asked her what she really wanted; why did she agree to MC; what is going on... She kept saying that she didn't know.
> 
> I said that I take responsibility for the separation, that I don't blame her for reaching out to OM. I said that it hurt, but that I was more upset that she lied, and saw him after our MC appointment.
> 
> I said that a part it me wants to begin a nasty divorce, but that despite everything, I still love her. I said that we have only two choices: divorce, or rebuild our marriage with no exes in our lives, transparency (because I would rather move on than deal with this, ever again,) and that OM must be out of the picture. I said OM in picture dooms any plan to work on us.
> 
> She said that she was leaning towards working on us, especially given that I am remorseful over what I did, but that she doesn't know how to make the hurt from what I did to go away.
> 
> We were up until 5 am. I slept for 4 hours and couldn't get back to sleep. I went to her room, and she woke up about when I did. She showed me a text from OM saying good morning beautiful, or some such.
> 
> She indicated that she is angry and annoyed with me. I expected this. She said that she wants, to go to MC for IC to work on herself, regardless of what happens. She repeated that she didn't know what she wanted. She can't shake what I said. She said OM was someone she could keep at a distance.
> 
> I listened to her, and acknowledged what she was saying and feeling. I repeated our options. I, said that with help, I believed that we could get past everything and begin anew, but that we would have to be on the same page. She said that she will commit to seeing if we can repair the damage and fix us. She asked if I could get past her kissing OM. I said that it hurt, but that I could. I asked her the same about the things that I said. She said she didn't know.
> 
> She said that maybe one of us should go away for a couple of days. I did not agree, thinking that that would be a bad idea. She said that she needed to think how to tell OM that they couldn't talk to or see each other so that she can work on our marriage. She said that she would do the same with the old fling she talked to. I asked if I could see the texts and responses, and she said, "Whatever you want, DamagedGuy." She wanted to be left alone.


Did you get and read the book “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley? In the book he tells exactly how tell an affair partner that she is going to no-contact. Here is the letter. It has to be a letter and not via phone or in person. The reason that it is not done in person is that doing it in person is more personal contact and usually leads to the affair not ending.

*OM,

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best wife that he deserves.


Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,

*​


DamagedGuy said:


> It is a messed up situation. I don't know if we can come back from all of this. I know that there is a possibility. I have seen many cases of couples getting through a lot worse. I can't help but be paranoid that she may find a way around things to see OM, but that is a rational fear. She doesn't know how I know what I know. I think that I will have easier access to her phone now, but I won't be able to always account for whereabouts, burner phones, secret apps, etc.
> 
> She had an out, but she is agreeing to see if we,can fix this. I don't know what to think, but I actually feel relieved that I wasn't going crazy; that I know that she was in the very beginning of involvement with an OM.


----------



## GusPolinski

NC with OM should be remarkably simple...

"I have decided to recommit myself to my husband, marriage, and family. Do not contact me again via any means."

If OM is married, or has a girlfriend, fiancée, or whatever, the following should be appended to the last sentence...

"; if you do, I will immediately notify your wife/GF/fiancée."

Same goes for her ex.

You should also be _highly_ skeptical of any attempts on her part to leave the house -- even if it's just for a few days -- and the reason for this has to do with a single word:

Closure.

Waywards just LOOOOOVE "closure".

Also, she's likely lying about the no sex thing.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I'm trying to get more evidence. In hindsight, I shouldn't have confronted her when I did. I was distraught. I have her saying something inappropriate, but OM is not identified via proof. I was angry and was thinking divorce. I confirmed his identity, but could not get the proof off of her phone. My wife refers to OM by name now that I know.

I'm not saying she will turn evil, it is just that I have never seen her angry like this. I think that she will never be truly happy in any relationship, to be honest. I've been reflecting on her history before our relationship, as well as ours. 

I'm too forgiving. I married her after an online indiscretion. She had another one a year later. Three years later, we were good, but I had the accident, which led to the stupid separation fiasco months later, and she started getting involved with OM just after a couple of weeks. 

Perhaps I'm just not wanting to see a 2nd marriage dissolve, especially with kids, one from my last relationship who has known my wife since he was 15 months old. But maybe I will be ultimately happier. Perhaps the IC portions of our counseling will be of good service. Now, if I pick up some absolute proof where things and names are said, I will expose as at that point I will just say screw it.

I'm not trying to be fickle about this, I'm just still dealing with ptsd and depression symptoms that hit randomly, plus all of this. I'm exhausted, and a bit overwhelmed.


----------



## drifting on

Damagedguy

In order for your marriage to have any chance of reconciliation OM has to be gone. Yet she went running to him AFTER mc, not a good sign at all. Now she says she will go no contact and work on the marriage IF you don't expose OM? Let me ask you something, who is she protecting? Why is she protecting OM? 

Your wife is protecting OM so that relationship can still work if your marriage doesn't. She is protecting him because she can have both of you. OM doesn't mind sharing her because he thinks your separated. She will continue to tell OM you are separated regardless if you try to work it out. She will tell you she wants to work on the marriage keeping her safety net intact. Then she will do just as she did after mc, save her relationship with OM. 

You only have one choice here to give your marriage an honest chance, expose. Expose them both, any means possible to both your family and hers. Expose OM on his Facebook account so he blocks both you and your wife. And if you want to get real sinister let me know, I found out something about Facebook.


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> And if you want to get real sinister let me know, I found out something about Facebook.


What do you mean?


----------



## turnera

drifting on said:


> Damagedguy
> 
> In order for your marriage to have any chance of reconciliation OM has to be gone. Yet she went running to him AFTER mc, not a good sign at all. Now she says she will go no contact and work on the marriage IF you don't expose OM? Let me ask you something, who is she protecting? Why is she protecting OM?
> 
> Your wife is protecting OM so that relationship can still work if your marriage doesn't. She is protecting him because she can have both of you. OM doesn't mind sharing her because he thinks your separated. She will continue to tell OM you are separated regardless if you try to work it out. She will tell you she wants to work on the marriage keeping her safety net intact. Then she will do just as she did after mc, save her relationship with OM.
> 
> You only have one choice here to give your marriage an honest chance, expose. Expose them both, any means possible to both your family and hers. Expose OM on his Facebook account so he blocks both you and your wife. And if you want to get real sinister let me know, I found out something about Facebook.


Please listen to drifting on; he's been where you are.

She's a serial cheater, ok? You don't turn that off. You just stop it until (1) your husband feels safe again and stops monitoring you and (2) you get bored again and need more stimulation.

She will NEVER STOP CHEATING unless she suffers some consequence and goes through several YEARS of personal therapy (not marriage therapy).

Just skip the MC and get yourself an IC.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I am beginning to understand and believe that she is a serial cheater. She almost acknowledged that she has relationship issues. I told her that I believe that when her relationship is stressed, she contacts men who should be unavailable. She did not disagree. 

I just contacted my sister, who knows OM to some degree. My accident issues hurt my relationship with my sister as well, so I'm trying to repair that as well.


----------



## turnera

DG, do you know what the strongest act in the world is? An apology (when appropriate). An apology to your sister will most likely mend things instantly.

Now, an apology to a serial cheater (who doesn't DESERVE an apology) will just embolden them, so please don't think I'm telling you that.

But I bet it will work with your sister.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I just talked with my sister for 2 hours. She thinks that because of vows, I should fight for the marriage, but that it will be difficult and might fail, and that my wife needs serious therapy.

Her mind is blown because she knows OM and his reputation. She says that he is a stupid oaf and a tool. She asked if I looked at pictures of him, and I said that he reminds me of Barney Rubble a bit, and she said that he is as stupid as he looks. I actually felt a lot better and even chuckled a bit with c.f. hay information. 

My wife ma see risks being seen because of how many friends and family live in his town. 

My wife is smart and has common sense - generally. She loved that I made her laugh all of the time, and that we had intelligent, stimulating conversation. Apparently, this guy is not capable of that, and often does embarrassing things in public. He has poor relationship history and often ruins them. 

My wife has NO future with this guy, other than the fact that he is gainfully employed (as far as I can tell.) All that she is getting is attention that is making her feel good after the rejection that I made her feel. "He makes me feel good. He makes me feel pretty. I felt something that I haven't felt in a long time when we kissed (and probably screwed.)"

My sister pointed out her attention seeking behavior, how plastic her Facebook use seems to people, and how she does love our son, but is not motherly and is often not involved. I'm with our son throughout every day, so if we divorce, I need to have a journal of time each of us has spent.

This is still a mess, but I actually feel better at the moment. If she continues the affair, and I have bettered myself, I may really not want her back after it inevitably ends. If I find that I still love her, somehow, and at that point, there will need to be a mountain to climb for us to be together. I do want to determine if she did cut off contact with him or not.


----------



## turnera

I thought she gave you access to her electronics and her passwords? 

If that's so, you should easily know if she's in contact.


----------



## dianaelaine59

DamagedGuy said:


> I just talked with my sister for 2 hours. She thinks that because of vows, I should fight for the marriage, but that it will be difficult and might fail, and that my wife needs serious therapy.
> 
> 
> 
> Her mind is blown because she knows OM and his reputation. She says that he is a stupid oaf and a tool. She asked if I looked at pictures of him, and I said that he reminds me of Barney Rubble a bit, and she said that he is as stupid as he looks. I actually felt a lot better and even chuckled a bit with c.f. hay information.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife ma see risks being seen because of how many friends and family live in his town.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife is smart and has common sense - generally. She loved that I made her laugh all of the time, and that we had intelligent, stimulating conversation. Apparently, this guy is not capable of that, and often does embarrassing things in public. He has poor relationship history and often ruins them.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife has NO future with this guy, other than the fact that he is gainfully employed (as far as I can tell.) All that she is getting is attention that is making her feel good after the rejection that I made her feel. "He makes me feel good. He makes me feel pretty. I felt something that I haven't felt in a long time when we kissed (and probably screwed.)"
> 
> 
> 
> My sister pointed out her attention seeking behavior, how plastic her Facebook use seems to people, and how she does love our son, but is not motherly and is often not involved. I'm with our son throughout every day, so if we divorce, I need to have a journal of time each of us has spent.
> 
> 
> 
> This is still a mess, but I actually feel better at the moment. If she continues the affair, and I have bettered myself, I may really not want her back after it inevitably ends. If I find that I still love her, somehow, and at that point, there will need to be a mountain to climb for us to be together. I do want to determine if she did cut off contact with him or not.




Bull****! Just tell the OM's wife for Pete sakes!!! 

I'm 65 years old, spent YEARS doing everything I could to fix my marriage after husband cheated (did not have this forum then), and the more I did, the less it helped. 

Trust me when I say, the hell with the OM's reputation and not exposing because wife asks you not to. Do it anyway!

And by the way, my husband had several health issues throughout our marriage, and told me many times he thought I should find someone else ... I never left or cheated. That's just not me. 

Just my 2 cents worth. 




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DamagedGuy

We didn't get that far, and they might just drive the affair further underground. I still have countermeasures in place, and my sister suggested a GPS. The energy being spent on this is another factor that is making me think 180 NC/ Marriage Builders Plan B. I have my kids to think about, and my own health as I continue to recover from my accident.

Then again, maybe she is behaving, since she doesn't know how I know what I know. Her toxic GF might let her use h we phone to contact him. She might get a burner phone. I'm starting to get sick of worrying about it. 

If she continues with OM, she will eventually realizes that he sucks. I will be in a better place. She may then have regrets.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, great decision, Nice Guy. Just wait for her to get tired of him and come back.

smdh


----------



## syhoybenden

turnera said:


> Yeah, great decision, Nice Guy. Just wait for her to get tired of him and come back.
> 
> smdh



A la Marriagebuilders. You're getting advised by them too, right?


----------



## DamagedGuy

I'm not saying that I am going to sit here while she has an affair. I'm leaning towards moving on. I'm just saying that this OM situation has no future, and she will probably regret it.

She just came home, and admitted that she talked to him for two hours. She then listed excuses that She is blaming me for, for thinking that she wants out. She said that OM, which she has been in contact for a short period, makes her feel happy. Then she says she doesn't know what she wants, and doesn't want to break up our family.

It looks like I need to focus on IC, documenting how much each of us spends time with our son, and think about what I want out of the inevitable divorce.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

DamagedGuy said:


> I'm not saying that I am going to sit here while she has an affair. I'm leaning towards moving on. I'm just saying that this OM situation has no future, and she will probably regret it.
> 
> She just came home, and *admitted that she talked to him for two hours*. She then listed excuses that She is blaming me for, for thinking that she wants out. She said that OM, which she has been in contact for a short period, makes her feel happy. Then she says she doesn't know what she wants, and doesn't want to break up our family.
> 
> It looks like I need to focus on IC, documenting how much each of us spends time with our son, and think about what I want out of the inevitable divorce.



OO for f---'s sake!!! "Hi Honey, I'm home, let me cram a crap sandwich down your throat by telling you I was (talking) for 2 hours to pos OM".

Expose & file, why put up with this???


----------



## DamagedGuy

Who are the best exposure targets? My mom and sister already know. Obviously the GF of the OM and his mom...

I was straight forward that of she wants to work on this, no more OM at all and that I need accountability; are we working on this, or shattering our family with a divorce and NC so that I WILL move on. She said a part of her hates me right now because I separated. Through all of her excuses, this is the main factor. I think the excuses are to make her self feel better; that if I didn't do what I did, we just wouldn't be where we are at.

But she will not give me an answer. I don't know why. She runs out shop without me, and my disability cash isn't a lot, in the grand scheme, and our house can be completely changed into a duplex, so there is no safety net for her, other than familiarity.


----------



## 3putt

DamagedGuy said:


> Who are the best exposure targets? My mom and sister already know. Obviously the GF of the OM and his mom...


You've already been told what to do.....

Please Help - Marriage Builders® Forums


----------



## DamagedGuy

Well I know about facebook friends, but he has over 800+ friends, many who obviously he doesn't know in person. I'm trying to narrow it down. I'll search for people that live in his township, same last name, etc.

Honestly, exposing to her relatives will do nothing. I was trying to give her an out since I'm having a hard time with it for some reason.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I'm probably going to file since she is wishy washy about the marriage/OM/shattering our family and not filing herself.

The only strategic reason to wait is to document how much she is away from our son. I can pull away and go NC.

I told her that I can walk away from this knowing that I am a better, more honorable man than what OM will ever be in the entirety of his life. That I will never have a GF and at the same time try to get into the panties of a recently separated mother who lives with her husband, who wanted to save the marriage.

Part of me wants her to just damn tell me it's over. But she can't stop thinking about the what if. I reiterated that I'm not tolerating her behavior at all, that I'm not going to deal with her while she turns her a fair into a PA of it isn't there already.

"I'll always love you, you are my best friend, you gave me a son, I don't know if I can live with you anymore..." grrr it's making me sick! "What if you don't change your issues, what if I can't change mine; you let me down because I feel I've put more into the marriage and our life together than you..."

My stance is, that is what MC was supposed to be for, stop having anything to do with numbskull OM panty-player, and get serious about fixing the marriage or GET OUT and NO CONTACT! There is NO middle-road here!

I'm am feeling better, more determined, less depressed, and far less anxious. I'm getting annoyed and angry now.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> Who are the best exposure targets? My mom and sister already know. Obviously the GF of the OM and his mom...


Why the hell are you exposing to YOUR family? It's HER family you need to tell. She can - and will - walk away from YOUR family if they give her sh*t. She can't qalk away from her own family as easily. And you're supposed to expose to the people whose respect SHE craves. Her parent, her sibling, her best friend, her priest, her cousin...people whom she doesn't want knowing what she did. THEY are the people who could give her 'that look' and make her feel ashamed and get her to second guess what she's doing.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I know this isn't what you wanted, but you can't make anyone reconcile. Here's the thing you missed in all those helpful reconciliation posts, you CANNOT reconcile with a person still in contact with their affair partner. You can't reconcile with someone who will not accept any blame for their actions. When you calm down, I want you to go back and read posts again. I want you to read carefully and pay attention to what you posted and notice what is being cherry picked.
Also, be careful with your anger. When it rises up walk away, take a ride and get away from her. Last thing you want to do is giver her ANY reason to do anything sideways to you. Yes, it happens and no it isn't as uncommon as certain people like to claim.


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> Why the hell are you exposing to YOUR family? It's HER family you need to tell. She can - and will - walk away from YOUR family if they give her sh*t. She can't qalk away from her own family as easily. And you're supposed to expose to the people whose respect SHE craves. Her parent, her sibling, her best friend, her priest, her cousin...people whom she doesn't want knowing what she did. THEY are the people who could give her 'that look' and make her feel ashamed and get her to second guess what she's doing.


Because my family is there for her for A LOT. They, especially my mother, communicate with her often, and will hold her accountable. My wife's mother is a POS. I just told my wife that whatever happens, I want her to think about the fact that she is the mother of our awesome son when she is messing around with an OM who has a GF, while married. She said I was right, that is not the kind of mother she wants to be, and that she doesn't want to be like her mother. I said, "Then get therapy."


----------



## DamagedGuy

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I know this isn't what you wanted, but you can't make anyone reconcile. Here's the thing you missed in all those helpful reconciliation posts, you CANNOT reconcile with a person still in contact with their affair partner. You can't reconcile with someone who will not accept any blame for their actions. When you calm down, I want you to go back and read posts again. I want you to read carefully and pay attention to what you posted and notice what is being cherry picked.
> Also, be careful with your anger. When it rises up walk away, take a ride and get away from her. Last thing you want to do is giver her ANY reason to do anything sideways to you. Yes, it happens and no it isn't as uncommon as certain people like to claim.


I didn't miss any of that. I demanded that she stop, or I divorce. I said that if that angers her, I'm not sorry for that at all.

My anger is righteous and controlled. I'm calm and collected with her. I still love her, despite things, and the hurt, and I hurt her enough with the separation.


----------



## TDSC60

DamagedGuy said:


> I'm am feeling better, more determined, less depressed, and far less anxious. I'm getting annoyed and angry now.


About time!!! She has not committed to your marriage at all. She will not give up contact with OM.

The only thing she has committed to was a slight possibility to maybe try if you did not screw his life up. WTF!

Actions mean something not words and all she has done is waffle and delay.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

DamagedGuy said:


> I didn't miss any of that. *I demanded that she stop, or I divorce.* I said that if that angers her, I'm not sorry for that at all.
> 
> My anger is righteous and controlled. I'm calm and collected with her. I still love her, despite things, and the hurt, and I hurt her enough with the separation.


 And she didn't and you still won't expose to the OM's GF. She broke her end of the NC as long as you don't expose deal" so why are you still enabling them? If you expose she'll know you're not going to be a pushover any longer and you have stated you feel the OM is more alpha than you. The competition between you and him will shift to your advantage when you tell his GF. She is blameshifting and using the separation to test drive the om(s) and putting it all on you. That is absurd.
If you are enough of a doormat to put up with this fence sitting behavior and try to reconcile ( which you shouldn't...but) then make damn sure she takes a poly and you find out how far it went, how many times and how many different guys.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> I didn't miss any of that. I demanded that she stop, or I divorce.


But she didn't stop. And you did nothing.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> What do you mean?




I will pm you.


----------



## drifting on

I pm'd you how to be sinister with Facebook. Now starting taking action to your wife's fence sitting. Yours too I might add. Get firm and mad, then take legal action, file for divorce listing the reason as adultery and OM.


----------



## DamagedGuy

My steadfast demand conversation, with the threat that I will walk completely out of her life, save for communication involving our son, happened over the last few hours, with posts here in between.

I needed to center myself. I know that it is difficult for some to understand. If this situation had happened before the accident, I would have properly handled it, right off, and probably wouldn't have needed to post here about it.

She drafted a NC to OM, said she is going to give an honest effort to fix our damage, and removed him from facebook. She agreed to my countermeasures, check her facebook, etc. I turned on location data on her phone. She is angry that she feels spied on. Too bad. She asked me to mention the countermeasures to MC. I said that I will, but it won't matter what MC says.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

DamagedGuy said:


> I didn't miss any of that. I demanded that she stop, or I divorce. I said that if that angers her, I'm not sorry for that at all.


I didn't say you did. I said "*the thing you missed in all those helpful reconciliation posts*." I'm pointing out how they glossed over those things and conveniently focus in on the separation, while purposely ignoring this is her third incident. I'm also pointing out how you haven't done anything serious to stop these actions either.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

DamagedGuy said:


> My steadfast demand conversation, with the threat that I will walk completely out of her life, save for communication involving our son, happened over the last few hours, with posts here in between.
> 
> I needed to center myself. I know that it is difficult for some to understand. If this situation had happened before the accident, I would have properly handled it, right off, and probably wouldn't have needed to post here about it.
> 
> She drafted a NC to OM, said she is going to give an honest effort to fix our damage, and removed him from facebook. She agreed to my countermeasures, check her facebook, etc. I turned on location data on her phone. She is angry that she feels spied on. Too bad. She asked me to mention the countermeasures to MC. I said that I will, but it won't matter what MC says.


The separation is 100% your fault, you did hurt her, but her act means you have failed to handle it right two times. So, I am going to disagree with you being able to handle it better before the accident.


Hopefully, it works out for you. This will be a test for your MC, I am curious what the response will be.


----------



## turnera

I'm confused why you think you would have handled it better before your accident, if it already DID happen before your accident and nothing got better. What's going on with you in terms of this accident? Are you feeling 'less than' now? If so, is it keeping you from handling something with strength?

I get that you think that, because your wife spends a lot of time with your mother, that your mother's opinion of her will matter more than her own. But you are wrong. No matter how dysfunctional her parents are, they're still her parents.


----------



## Sparta

OP all that's great and everything but she sees weakness and you plus you have everybody here telling you to expose to the OM's girlfriend and yet you refuse.? Why are you here.? You avoid their questions when the topic is on exposure and then you come up with some lame excuse. The people that are helping you out. I hope you understand everyone here has been through or is going through same pain you are walking through right now. They're here donating their free time of their lives to help you out. Maybe you want to try something new and take the advice that is so freely given to you and apply it, see how that works.


----------



## dianaelaine59

DamagedGuy said:


> I'm not saying that I am going to sit here while she has an affair. I'm leaning towards moving on. I'm just saying that this OM situation has no future, and she will probably regret it.
> 
> 
> 
> She just came home, and admitted that she talked to him for two hours. She then listed excuses that She is blaming me for, for thinking that she wants out. She said that OM, which she has been in contact for a short period, makes her feel happy. Then she says she doesn't know what she wants, and doesn't want to break up our family.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I need to focus on IC, documenting how much each of us spends time with our son, and think about what I want out of the inevitable divorce.




Ugh! I have a headache!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## dianaelaine59

DamagedGuy said:


> I'm not saying that I am going to sit here while she has an affair. I'm leaning towards moving on. I'm just saying that this OM situation has no future, and she will probably regret it.
> 
> 
> 
> She just came home, and admitted that she talked to him for two hours. She then listed excuses that She is blaming me for, for thinking that she wants out. She said that OM, which she has been in contact for a short period, makes her feel happy. Then she says she doesn't know what she wants, and doesn't want to break up our family.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I need to focus on IC, documenting how much each of us spends time with our son, and think about what I want out of the inevitable divorce.




OM's girlfriend DESERVES to know!!!

It's totally unfair for you to leave her in the dark. 

And OM DESERVES to suffer the consequences of her knowing!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dyokemm

dianaelaine59 said:


> OM's girlfriend DESERVES to know!!!
> 
> It's totally unfair for you to leave her in the dark.
> 
> And OM DESERVES to suffer the consequences of her knowing!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes she does.....and so does the ex-fling's W about the two meet ups they had during this time.

That whole scenario seems to have been forgotten in the blow up over the new POSOM.

OP....

You are still being lied to and gaslighted here......it is beyond likely that FAR more than you are aware of went down with one or both of these scumbags.....that is why she is resisting NC while at the same time throwing all the blame on to you for her cheating.

My bet?

She hooked up with ex- fling....but he wanted nothing other than some sex and broke it off after his fun....so she went looking for the next POS and has been having a PA with him.....OF COURSE she claims it was only a kiss, but I would bet money that she is lying....it's a full PA, hence her almost desperate attempts to maintain contact after you confronted.

You blew up her plans......she wanted to keep stringing you along as a backup while she made up her mind if Plan A (POSOM) was going to work.

Btw.....I am a little unclear about something.....is Facebook turd the same guy as the one she originally told you about who asked her out?

Or did you now discover OM 5 in your M?

Blow up these A's immediately....expose to both AP's W's and all friends and family.....

Demand a polygraph to find out what exactly she has done.....there is no chance for R if she is still lying to you.

If she resists or blows up at you....slap her with D papers to show you are dead serious (they can always be cancelled if she pulls her head out of her butt)


----------



## DamagedGuy

Before the accident, I wouldn't have done what I did. I had no intentions of separating from my wife. Before the accident, if I discovered an affair of any sort, I would have exposed immediately. When she has her online indiscretion after we married, I exposed immediately. She begged for forgiveness on her knees and have me all of her passwords and account information and total phone access.

I emotionally and psychologically damaged my wife when I was struggling with mental and emotional pain that I would have gotten a grip on if I just could have maintained a little longer. What she did was wrong, especially given that the OM has a GF who has a child attached to OM.

I know I need to have the GF find out. I'm trying to be strategic in order to make sure that I can keep the front half of the house, which keeps my children from any extra suffering here. My son who is my wife's stepson still has a relationship with her, and has barely remembers a time before her or our house.

Our son we have together was born a preemie, and I am with him a lot more than she is. He has nursing. I do not want to disrupt his life right now. I can keep things as they are with him, while making plans.

Even with MC and keeping tabs on her, I am going to have consultations with lawyers in order to set up something in the event that this goes south. I need to see what I have to both gain and lose. New York State family law doesn't treat husbands/fathers very well. I want to avoid as much blowback as I possibly can. 

I AM working towards it, but right now my mind is in tactical mode, rather than the depressed mode that it was in. I hate myself for what I did and truly believe that she wouldn't have done anything like this, otherwise, knowing I would expose under normal circumstances. 

It doesn't make what she did right at all. She didn't know that OM had GF at the start and thought that I was done with her, and she didn't want to be alone. These are issues she needs to work out in therapy, regardless of our marital outcome, for the sake of our son.

There are too many factors to go all half-cocked on this. If she does continue the affair, I will know. I'm going to use GPS tracking because if she does, she will take it further underground. If we divorce, I need to have a children's professional involved to help my son from the previous relationship be eased out of my wife's life since we would be starting a new future without her.


----------



## Quality

Good way to test this supposed promise of "No Contact" is to at least contact the OM's girlfriend and expose to her. In other words, if she actually isn't in contact with OM, she won't ever find out you did it. If she does find out, well, she's just blown the lid off the promise of no contact, right. 

I still think OM should be fully exposed but I see a poster here doing everything he can to avoid exposure {it's why you came her from MB in the first place ~ to shop for an alternative differing from what pennylane told you to do over there}. 

Absent full exposure of OM, he's free to keep sniffing around the henhouse looking for a way to sneak in and make contact without you knowing. They'll be under the guise of "I just needed to check in and make sure you're ok". If OM is exposed, he'll be more worried about his girlfriend and loss of status with family and friends to sneak around looking for your wife and risk getting caught and exposed again or exposed more broadly.

You were told to do the MB plan there and by most here because everyone that has experienced it knows it's the best and really only course of action. {except that one poster who has divorcebusting confused with marriagebuilding ~ divorce busting is the website that encourages the posters to do nothing but wait for the affair to end ~ with a smile even}.

If you are church-going persons ~ your minister|pastor should be told too.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> I emotionally and psychologically damaged my wife when I was struggling with mental and emotional pain


In what way? Specifically? Details?



> I'm going to use GPS tracking


Why aren't you already using it?


----------



## DamagedGuy

I understand what needed to be done. I have have protections in place. What if exposure before I have a lawyer actually hurts me and my son(s)? 

Exposure is not always black and white. Her friends that are in her side may actually pool resources so that she could get a lawyer. I have resources now, and more on the way. 

I need to think about how ramifications are going to affect my sons, and custody of our son. A lawyer could theoretically use an exposure tactic as a sign that I am jealous and unstable. I want to make sure that she can not move away with our son.

I have consequences to think about before I move on this. This situation is different. I hurt her, I asked to reconcile, she already started talking to OM, she got busted, she is angry and annoyed, and I don't want her to do anything that is going to put my living situation, my stake in our house, or my children at risk. My children are more important to me than anything else in this world. 

This also gives me time to research exposure targets as I look through 800+ people on his frend list, have mutual friends be aware, and her friends her that do not know about OM. A little bit more hard evidence to share would be nice. I didn't have access to the VAR when we talked yesterday, but that would have been perfect since we talked about OM and his GF, and how OM made her feel right now.


----------



## turnera

Exposure isn't to FB friends. It's to family and BEST friends, your pastor, siblings. Maybe a cousin if they're close.


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> In what way? Specifically? Details?
> 
> Why aren't you already using it?


Telling her that I wanted to separate when she clearly didn't want that, and saying hurtful things to rationalize and justify it. It appeared to her that I just stopped loving and caring about her, abruptly. 

I didn't have a GPS tracker. I found a spare phone and turned location services and downloaded the latest Google maps. I will also install VAR app on it, and hide it in the car. Luckily, from a legal standpoint, the car is mine. Her name is not on it.

The OM is the guy who asked her on the date. I did not have countermeasures in place at that time. They went to a movie with that night or the night after, with her friend helping with the deceit. She is maintaining her story without any variation in details, that they started texting/talking, sexting a couple of times, the movie at the theater then another movie at his house, the meet up the day after 1st MC appointment with kissing, the meet up yesterday to talk about the situation, and the text that she is going to put an honest effort into MC and that keeping contact with him is influencing her decisions, and that he has his GF to think about.

He replied that they both know their relationships are not going to last, that they have an attraction, but he supports what she wants to do and she should do what she thinks is best.

She then removed offending parties from facebook. I asked to look at her phone this morning, and she let me. One thing I need to do is get a hold of it and use Dr Fone on it. If I can view her deleted texts, I will know if she is honest about the details, or is lying about the extent of what she did.

I said that she can try to salvage the marriage with me if she cuts out OM, or divorce. She knows I will divorce if she continues, and if I do it right, she not only would definitely be exposed, but possibly not be in a 50/50 divorce situation.

Plus, I know that part of her also wishes that we could go back in time, and that we were good before I got all weird. This part of her would like things to be good, and our family intact. If she does stay out of contact with OM, whatever connection they have will die.

If GPS shows that she went anywhere near him, I will file divorce papers. No matter what happens, I'm not moving on exposure until my situation and my children's situation is safe and secure. I'm not sorry for this.



turnera said:


> Exposure isn't to FB friends. It's to family and BEST friends, your pastor, siblings. Maybe a cousin if they're close.


I don't know who his best friends are, yet. If they are scumbags like him, it won't matter, but I'm looking into it.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> I understand what needed to be done. I have have protections in place. What if exposure before I have a lawyer actually hurts me and my son(s)?
> 
> Exposure is not always black and white. Her friends that are in her side may actually pool resources so that she could get a lawyer. I have resources now, and more on the way.
> 
> I need to think about how ramifications are going to affect my sons, and custody of our son. A lawyer could theoretically use an exposure tactic as a sign that I am jealous and unstable. I want to make sure that she can not move away with our son.
> 
> I have consequences to think about before I move on this. This situation is different. I hurt her, I asked to reconcile, she already started talking to OM, she got busted, she is angry and annoyed, and I don't want her to do anything that is going to put my living situation, my stake in our house, or my children at risk. My children are more important to me than anything else in this world.
> 
> This also gives me time to research exposure targets as I look through 800+ people on his frend list, have mutual friends be aware, and her friends her that do not know about OM. A little bit more hard evidence to share would be nice. I didn't have access to the VAR when we talked yesterday, but that would have been perfect since we talked about OM and his GF, and how OM made her feel right now.




Then my Facebook plan is dead on accurate, no way of being caught. If you think you will get caught then pm the info to me and I'll do it for you.


----------



## dianaelaine59

DamagedGuy said:


> I understand what needed to be done. I have have protections in place. What if exposure before I have a lawyer actually hurts me and my son(s)?
> 
> 
> 
> Exposure is not always black and white. Her friends that are in her side may actually pool resources so that she could get a lawyer. I have resources now, and more on the way.
> 
> 
> 
> I need to think about how ramifications are going to affect my sons, and custody of our son. A lawyer could theoretically use an exposure tactic as a sign that I am jealous and unstable. I want to make sure that she can not move away with our son.
> 
> 
> 
> I have consequences to think about before I move on this. This situation is different. I hurt her, I asked to reconcile, she already started talking to OM, she got busted, she is angry and annoyed, and I don't want her to do anything that is going to put my living situation, my stake in our house, or my children at risk. My children are more important to me than anything else in this world.
> 
> 
> 
> This also gives me time to research exposure targets as I look through 800+ people on his frend list, have mutual friends be aware, and her friends her that do not know about OM. A little bit more hard evidence to share would be nice. I didn't have access to the VAR when we talked yesterday, but that would have been perfect since we talked about OM and his GF, and how OM made her feel right now.




You know, just because you asked her to separate, does not mean that she would walk out or have an affair that quickly.

Even if it hurt her, she could have and should have sat down with you and discussed where it was coming from, why you felt this way, etc. etc.

Many many women would not have just up and started seeing someone because their husband said that to them, especially under the strain of what you have gone through physically and psychologically.

I know for sure I would not have. 

I think you're being way too hard on yourself, unless there's something you're not telling us that you did and or said. 

And now that you want to work it out, even though she was very hurt, you would think that she would want to save her marriage being that you have children together and put her her hurt aside and try to make things right. 

And this is coming from a woman!

People are just too quick to run to somebody else, when things in their go wrong. 

I understand you wanting to make sure of having a place to be able to live, and the safety of your children. 

So start working on that today, and call whoever you need to, to get things started to learn what your rights are and how to protect yourself and the children. 

I don't think any law or lawyer would consider you exposing to the OM's girlfriend and or wife, something vindictive or unstable. 

All you would have to do is show him an outline of why exposure is very important and why it's used. 

You're not the monster you believe yourself to be, forgive yourself even though I know it's very hard, understand that she is 50% of this marriage and you didn't do this alone, she definitely has her fault and responsibility in this. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## dianaelaine59

turnera said:


> In what way? Specifically? Details?
> 
> Why aren't you already using it?




I'd like to know this too. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> I don't know who his best friends are, yet. If they are scumbags like him, it won't matter, but I'm looking into it.


No, you expose to HER parents, HER best friend, Her siblings. Tell his parents or siblings maybe, but you expose to HER important people so that they hopefully tell her they won't accept her new guy.

When you do so, make it clear you were in a bad place and you said some hurtful things. Own it. Apologize to them for it. But then point out that you didn't go seeking another person while married. That you're willing and wanting to go to therapy with her to hash it all out - but ONLY if she gives up OM. And, after you've been to therapy a while, if she still wants to leave you, you'll graciously back off, but that you feel it's not fair for her to just throw it all away while in the middle of an affair.


----------



## dianaelaine59

dianaelaine59 said:


> I'd like to know this too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




OK, I just saw what you wrote. 

I don't know the words you used exactly, and I don't know how bad it was, but even through that, a woman CAN overlook such things. 

I'm not saying it's right to say hurtful things to someone we love, but you were under the strain of physical changes, psychological changes, and depression. 

A person decides to either work it out with all their heart and soul, or run to someone else. 






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> Then my Facebook plan is dead on accurate, no way of being caught. If you think you will get caught then pm the info to me and I'll do it for you.


I'm considering, though there is no way she will believe I had nothing to do with it.


----------



## DamagedGuy

dianaelaine59 said:


> You know, just because you asked her to separate, does not mean that she would walk out or have an affair that quickly.
> 
> Even if it hurt her, she could have and should have sat down with you and discussed where it was coming from, why you felt this way, etc. etc.
> 
> Many many women would not have just up and started seeing someone because their husband said that to them, especially under the strain of what you have gone through physically and psychologically.
> 
> I know for sure I would not have.
> 
> I think you're being way too hard on yourself, unless there's something you're not telling us that you did and or said.
> 
> And now that you want to work it out, even though she was very hurt, you would think that she would want to save her marriage being that you have children together and put her her hurt aside and try to make things right.
> 
> And this is coming from a woman!
> 
> People are just too quick to run to somebody else, when things in their go wrong.
> 
> I understand you wanting to make sure of having a place to be able to live, and the safety of your children.
> 
> So start working on that today, and call whoever you need to, to get things started to learn what your rights are and how to protect yourself and the children.
> 
> I don't think any law or lawyer would consider you exposing to the OM's girlfriend and or wife, something vindictive or unstable.
> 
> All you would have to do is show him an outline of why exposure is very important and why it's used.
> 
> You're not the monster you believe yourself to be, forgive yourself even though I know it's very hard, understand that she is 50% of this marriage and you didn't do this alone, she definitely has her fault and responsibility in this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


This is logical - and crushing. 

I wish I had been in a better place with myself, but you are right, she shouldn't have run to another man, no matter what.

I am going to contact an attorney to know my rights, and what I can expect, given all of the circumstances.

I should also add, as I can't remember if I brought it up yet, is that I brought up separation more than once up until it happened. My perceptions on her happiness were way off, I felt that she didn't love me, and had memory blockages. This is another reason why she thought that I truly didn't want to be with her anymore. She did cry and say that she didn't want to separate during those times.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> I'm considering, though there is no way she will believe I had nothing to do with it.




It really doesn't matter if she believes or not. Put enough from the car recording and it will to have only come from him. How could you possibly know what they spoke of on the phone? In your wife's mind it could only come from him as she knows she didn't do it. You get the burned phone so that when she sits next to you, you excuse yourself to go to the bathroom. Send her a text that she's a cheater and destroying her family then shut the phone off. Watch her reactions, you can say that you know they had sex and list dates you know they were together, such as when she went to his house for a movie. You don't have to be a prisoner to infidelity, you can strike back if you have the desire to.


----------



## DamagedGuy

The two car recordings do not definitively ID the OM. I discovered his ID when I snatched her phone. I wasn't thinking straight and I jumped the gun. 

One was a voice to text where she said something inappropriate, and the other you can here a man's voice, but it is faint as he was outside of the car.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> The two car recordings do not definitively ID the OM. I discovered his ID when I snatched her phone. I wasn't thinking straight and I jumped the gun.
> 
> One was a voice to text where she said something inappropriate, and the other you can here a man's voice, but it is faint as he was outside of the car.





Just pick anything he stated that was between just them so it appears it could only come from them. Posting this on Facebook will remove any feelings she had for OM. Good luck.


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> Just pick anything he stated that was between just them so it appears it could only come from them. Posting this on Facebook will remove any feelings she had for OM. Good luck.


I don't have anything from him. I messed it up, unless they continue and I get something then, or I can get her phone and restore their texts. I saved the conversation where she said she has to work on our marriage and that contact with him influences her feelings, but I haven't had a chance to move it to my phone.


----------



## MyRevelation

... and it was raining today ... and the baby had a hang nail ... and the dog tracked mud in ... and the refrigerator light didn't come on ... and the cat coughed up a hairball ... etc., etc.

Jesus dude, MAN UP and take some form of action to help yourself. It continues to amaze me the number of BH's that are paralyzed by fear and just keep kissing the ass that is ****ting on them.

Actually, that should be the mission statement for MB Plan A.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I have manned up. I'm going to take protective legal steps. My evidence, or lack thereof, could hurt exposure. I'm not tolerating any contact with the OM. I'm checking her on it, even though she is angry and annoyed.


----------



## straightshooter

*


DamagedGuy said:



I have manned up. I'm going to take protective legal steps. My evidence, or lack thereof, could hurt exposure. I'm not tolerating any contact with the OM. I'm checking her on it, even though she is angry and annoyed.

Click to expand...

*


If she is angry and annoyed because you are keeping her from her boyfriend, that means as soon as she gets the chance her affair will restart because you are the bad guy who is being unreasonable not wanting to share her.

Your only chance to save your marriage is to go nuclear. You are getting no where under your current plan.


----------



## drifting on

DG

I know how you feel, I know the shock you are in, and trust I am only trying to help you. I'm not going to keep beating you up here, but your actions from here on are what matter. I don't think your wife wants divorce, I think she wants the stability you provide. At the same time she's getting things from OM that are new. A high that she hasn't had for quite some time. This is not on you in any way, the affair is on her. Mom owing she went to his house to watch a movie pretty much indicates they had sex. 

File for divorce, list adultery and OM, it doesn't matter if it has no bearing. It becomes a public documen, others may see it. Have her served at work, so now everyone knows she's getting divorced. She can blame you all she wants, but if it's listed as adultery she can't lie. This could force her to stop the affair or she actually accept the divorce. Exposure to stop the affair is critical, you seem reluctant to do this and I can understand. But not exposing at this time shows you as weak go her, she still gets her boyfriend from your fear of taking control. By control I mean of your life, take it back.


----------



## Quality

Filing for divorce is most likely going to result in you being divorced. You'll just be confirming once and for all that what you said when you separated is really the truth about your feelings for her and that she's just a possession to you now. It's NOT RIGHT {I'm not excusing this thinking but explaining it} but she feels entitled now to weighing out the choices before her. You are TRYING to be the calm one and the safe place to land. You are trying to be rational to someone who FEELS like doing something else {continuing to see and talk to OM and weigh out her chioces}. When someone FEELS like doing something, their mind will then rationalize and self-justify reasons to do what they actually WANT to do. You are demanding that she go against her feelings and spelling out all the logic about why it's necessary but logic is very meaningless to her right now. Being assertive is good, but being too aggressive {filing divorce} is, IMO, overly playing the hand and just pushing her into the arms of OM. You're the one of the ground making those choices and divorce is always an option, but I'd encourage you to hold back on playing that card too fast. 


As far as Exposure ~ Back to my henhouse example.

You KNOW a fox has made his way into your henhouse and you're in there now trying to block him from entering again. You can reinforced the wall and put up more fencing and chicken wire; however, the fox is cunning and he knows you'll soon leave and he'll keep trying and trying to find another way in as long as he knows the cost of trying isn't all that high. 

At the very least, while you figure out what to do about facebook exposure and exposing to everyone else in OM's life, I encourage you to expose to OM's girlfriend now. Don't discuss it with your wife. Don't ask your attorney if it hurts your case {attorneys are wimps and like divorces to be easy ~ she or he will tell you not to do it because it complicates HER|HIS life and HER|HIS case ~ they sell divorces after all}. Don't threaten it and give them any chance to spin it before you contact her {because you don't have a lot of evidence and because they'll preempt your exposure by warning her about this "crazy jealous abusive mentally ill husband of a friend of his that thinks OM is having an affair with his wife when he's just her friend trying to help her escape her husband"}. 

Do it in a non-vindictive calm manner. Use the MB form that was stated or linked earlier in this thread or over there. 

90% of the time, OM will then leave your henhouse alone and divert to focusing on his own relationship. OM's girlfriend will then hopefully take care of broader exposure OM to everyone else {not your fault ~ you just did the right thing and didn't conspire with your wife and OM to keep the OM's girlfriend in the dark about her life}.

This is like firing a shotgun blast in the air outside the henhouse letting the fox KNOW you are on to him and the potential cost of remaining lurking around in the underbrush waiting for an opportunity. 

A shotgun blast in the air won't be as effective as buckshot to the rear of the fox {which is what total and complete facebook nuclear exposure would do} but it's better than waiting and|or doing nothing PLUS it's 100% completely "justifiably" should you ever be forced to defend such behavior. 

The defense again ~ it's not wrong to tell others the truth about their lives ~ rather ~ it's wrong to cheat. Absent the cheating there would be no need to have ever had any contact at all with OM's girlfriend. It was the cheating that caused this and you weren't being mean or vindictive. Just telling his girlfriend about lie. 

Plus ~ if your wife finds out about you telling OM's girlfriend, you know they've been in contact and it'll then convince you to go full out nuclear.

Threatening "you either go 'no contact' now, or I'll divorce you" isn't a wise move because even the best recoveries in these situations often have one or two breaks in "no contact" for various reasons, ESPECIALLY, when there hasn't been full exposure. For example, OM goes to her workplace and she didn't want to be rude to him so they "just talked". There is no way she's convinced yet that OM is a danger to her very soul and she HAS TO cut all contact if she really wants to give you two a chance. 

Consider also they may have made a pact - that OM promised her he'd wait for her. Such "promise" if not blown up with full exposure, will make marriage counseling, working the MB recovery plan or whatever recovery plan you choose to undertake very difficult. They may honor "no contact" briefly, but if she knows the fox is right outside waiting for her it makes getting through the difficult times and moments of recovery with you pretty much impossible. She's got her "backup plan" waiting just a few yards away that she can "retreat" to when the goings get tough {and they will probably be made even tougher because she'll WANT any excuse she can muster to check in with OM ~ to ensure he's still there...waiting}. 

Another applicable allegory ~ Burn the Ships!

In 1519, Spanish Conquistador Hernán Cortés landed in Veracruz to begin his great conquest. Upon arriving, he gave the order to his men to burn the ships. As I imagine it, someone then laughed and Cortés promptly thrust his sword into the man’s chest. After which, the rest proceeded to get hammered on rum by the glow of the blaze. 

What Cortés did was force himself and his men to either succeed or die. Retreat was not an option. 

I believe that to truly achieve the level of success you desire with your wife, this is the time you need to “burn the ships" and to the extent possible, rid OM from her life whether you recover or not while making sure he's not her back up plan.


----------



## DamagedGuy

These last few posts make me feel physically ill again, along with the wave of guilt that hits me when I remember my part in this. 

My wife saw that I was down and pulled me to another room to ask what is wrong (duh.) Part of me feels like I'm manipulating her or coercing her to stay and work on the marriage. If this is the case, I don't how it can ever be real. I read an article about exposure which details however justified, it is a moral grey area.

She said she is doing what I asked. She then said that I reminded her that she was being just like her mother. My wife was a latch key kid, whose mother *****s around, sometimes with involved (unattainable) guys, and has never had a stable relationship in her entire life. She said she realized, and doesn't want to be like her mother and thus chose to end things with OM. She reiterated that she still doesn't know what she wants; if the marriage can be saved, but she is willing to get therapy for her choices, actions, and for our marriage.

Could she blowing smoke up my rear? Definitely. Maybe, maybe not.

If I expose to GF, he will contact my wife and tell her. Things are so volatile that it would be the same as filing for divorce. As far as me filing, I'm not planning on it for now, but consulting and attorney might be wise, just to be prepared.

There are other ways that I can make OM stay away. Nothing illegal, but it wouldn't be comfortable. Something like that is more my style than airing dirty laundry, even though I did expose in the past. That was when I had a few beers, busted my wife having an online EA with sexual talk, took her rings, and posted it on our walls with links to OM's facebook, and messaged his wife. Buzzed and spontaneous. I had messages coming in from mutual friends that there are betters ways to handle things.

I'm not giving up or trying to be weak. I'm struggling with this, and my personal demons from the damn accident which set all of this into motion. I believe that my wife loved me, but her personal issue overrode that because of her fear of being alone. 

I am doing the best that I can.


----------



## Ckone1800

DamagedGuy said:


> These last few posts make me feel physically ill again, along with the wave of guilt that hits me when I remember my part in this.
> 
> My wife saw that I was down and pulled me to another room to ask what is wrong (duh.) Part of me feels like I'm manipulating her or coercing her to stay and work on the marriage. If this is the case, I don't how it can ever be real. I read an article about exposure which details however justified, it is a moral grey area.
> 
> She said she is doing what I asked. She then said that I reminded her that she was being just like her mother. My wife was a latch key kid, whose mother *****s around, sometimes with involved (unattainable) guys, and has never had a stable relationship in her entire life. She said she realized, and doesn't want to be like her mother and thus chose to end things with OM. She reiterated that she still doesn't know what she wants; if the marriage can be saved, but she is willing to get therapy for her choices, actions, and for our marriage.
> 
> Could she blowing smoke up my rear? Definitely. Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> If I expose to GF, he will contact my wife and tell her. Things are so volatile that it would be the same as filing for divorce. As far as me filing, I'm not planning on it for now, but consulting and attorney might be wise, just to be prepared.
> 
> There are other ways that I can make OM stay away. Nothing illegal, but it wouldn't be comfortable. Something like that is more my style than airing dirty laundry, even though I did expose in the past. That was when I had a few beers, busted my wife having an online EA with sexual talk, took her rings, and posted it on our walls with links to OM's facebook, and messaged his wife. Buzzed and spontaneous. I had messages coming in from mutual friends that there are betters ways to handle things.
> 
> I'm not giving up or trying to be weak. I'm struggling with this, and my personal demons from the damn accident which set all of this into motion. I believe that my wife loved me, but her personal issue overrode that because of her fear of being alone.
> 
> I am doing the best that I can.




Your making this whole ordeal much more painful than it needs to be by making excuses, some of which are far reaching. 

I am not one to usually post, but I really feel for your situation. Hopefully one of us can reach through to you and help you make sense to all of this nonsense. 

No matter what you have done to her, no matter how much pain you have caused, YOU DID NOT cause her to choose infidelity. Period. There are no excuses for that behavior, ever. 

If you were emotionally or physically abusive, she had the option to leave the marriage, but didn't. There are no excuses for this action. 

The only thing you can control are YOUR actions, and as of this point, your actions have been very weak. If a bunch of unknown internet posters see this so simply, your wife has seen it even more pronounced. 

I had reservations about exposure too, but it didn't take very long for the folks here to convince me to do it, and oh boy was I very relieved once it was done. 

If the exposure pushes your WW into the OM arms, you just lessened the pain you were about to receive anyway. If the exposure embarrasses your WW, great! She needs some humility. If the exposure falls on deaf ears? No worries, nothing to deal with here. 

There is no excuse to squash the exposure right now, it doesn't help your case, it will not make you rich, it will not convince your wayward that you are a strong man. It does the opposite. 

You want to keep your wife? Do something about it. Setting the "strategies" of yours, which keep changing depending on the way you respond to advice, is keeping you in limbo and extended pain. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> These last few posts make me feel physically ill again, along with the wave of guilt that hits me when I remember my part in this.
> 
> My wife saw that I was down and pulled me to another room to ask what is wrong (duh.) Part of me feels like I'm manipulating her or coercing her to stay and work on the marriage. If this is the case, I don't how it can ever be real. I read an article about exposure which details however justified, it is a moral grey area.
> 
> She said she is doing what I asked. She then said that I reminded her that she was being just like her mother. My wife was a latch key kid, whose mother *****s around, sometimes with involved (unattainable) guys, and has never had a stable relationship in her entire life. She said she realized, and doesn't want to be like her mother and thus chose to end things with OM. She reiterated that she still doesn't know what she wants; if the marriage can be saved, but she is willing to get therapy for her choices, actions, and for our marriage.
> 
> Could she blowing smoke up my rear? Definitely. Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> If I expose to GF, he will contact my wife and tell her. Things are so volatile that it would be the same as filing for divorce. As far as me filing, I'm not planning on it for now, but consulting and attorney might be wise, just to be prepared.
> 
> There are other ways that I can make OM stay away. Nothing illegal, but it wouldn't be comfortable. Something like that is more my style than airing dirty laundry, even though I did expose in the past. That was when I had a few beers, busted my wife having an online EA with sexual talk, took her rings, and posted it on our walls with links to OM's facebook, and messaged his wife. Buzzed and spontaneous. I had messages coming in from mutual friends that there are betters ways to handle things.
> 
> I'm not giving up or trying to be weak. I'm struggling with this, and my personal demons from the damn accident which set all of this into motion. I believe that my wife loved me, but her personal issue overrode that because of her fear of being alone.
> 
> I am doing the best that I can.


Then take her at her word. Get that MC appointment TODAY, for sometime in the next 7 days. Do it now. And if she balks, then you'll know where you stand.

Of course, this is ASSUMING she has ended all contact with OM. Is she providing proof of that?


----------



## Truthseeker1

Ckone1800 said:


> Your making this whole ordeal much more painful than it needs to be by making excuses, some of which are far reaching.
> 
> I am not one to usually post, but I really feel for your situation. Hopefully one of us can reach through to you and help you make sense to all of this nonsense.
> 
> No matter what you have done to her, no matter how much pain you have caused, YOU DID NOT cause her to choose infidelity. Period. There are no excuses for that behavior, ever.
> 
> If you were emotionally or physically abusive, she had the option to leave the marriage, but didn't. There are no excuses for this action.
> 
> The only thing you can control are YOUR actions, and as of this point, your actions have been very weak. If a bunch of unknown internet posters see this so simply, your wife has seen it even more pronounced.
> 
> I had reservations about exposure too, but it didn't take very long for the folks here to convince me to do it, and oh boy was I very relieved once it was done.
> 
> If the exposure pushes your WW into the OM arms, you just lessened the pain you were about to receive anyway. If the exposure embarrasses your WW, great! She needs some humility. If the exposure falls on deaf ears? No worries, nothing to deal with here.
> 
> There is no excuse to squash the exposure right now, it doesn't help your case, it will not make you rich, it will not convince your wayward that you are a strong man. It does the opposite.
> 
> You want to keep your wife? Do something about it. Setting the "strategies" of yours, which keep changing depending on the way you respond to advice, is keeping you in limbo and extended pain.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 @DamagedGuy - listen to this man - he has successfully reconciled but did so on honorable terms. You should take his words to heart.


----------



## Ckone1800

DamagedGuy said:


> These last few posts make me feel physically ill again, along with the wave of guilt that hits me when I remember my part in this.
> 
> My wife saw that I was down and pulled me to another room to ask what is wrong (duh.) Part of me feels like I'm manipulating her or coercing her to stay and work on the marriage. If this is the case, I don't how it can ever be real. I read an article about exposure which details however justified, it is a moral grey area.


You are trying to coerce her into staying, and you're right, it doesn't have staying power. 



DamagedGuy;17997482
She said she is doing what I asked. She then said that I reminded her that she was being just like her mother. My wife was a latch key kid said:


> She is clearly not fighting for the marriage, and you cannot make her. This has to be her choice.
> 
> 
> 
> DamagedGuy;17997482
> If I expose to GF said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he will try to contact her, and you will know whether or not the NC is working if she doesn't find out. And you want him to throw her under the bus, that way your WW will have some reality in her fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> DamagedGuy;17997482There are other ways that I can make OM stay away. Nothing illegal said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a school yard recess, you cannot keep OM away from your WW if your WW wants to see him. You do not control that.
> 
> 
> DamagedGuy;17997482
> I'm not giving up or trying to be weak. I'm struggling with this said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep using your "accident" as a crutch. No one has said you are trying to be weak either, but you are coming across to everyone as such.
> 
> No more excuses. Proof read what you're writing before you hit post and remove every excuse you put out there. You'll notice your posts become very thin.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Quality

MyRevelation said:


> ... and it was raining today ... and the baby had a hang nail ... and the dog tracked mud in ... and the refrigerator light didn't come on ... and the cat coughed up a hairball ... etc., etc.
> 
> Jesus dude, MAN UP and take some form of action to help yourself. It continues to amaze me the number of BH's that are paralyzed by fear and just keep kissing the ass that is ****ting on them.


Isn't this a little hypocritical when it appears you didn't expose your wife's affair to the OM's wife?

Earlier in this thread you said: 



> FTR ... in my situation NC was never broken. Not because my W didn't try for "closure" ... how ****ing sweet ... but I had already confronted OM and he knew I had him by the short and curlys and suddenly my W wasn't such the hot young catch he originally thought when he was faced with a PI delivering in person to his BW all the evidence I had. Somehow he never quite got around to responding to her "closure" attempts.


Clearly you "threatened" exposure and conspired with OM to keep the affair a secret from his betrayed wife, "OR ELSE". 

So why don't YOU "man up" and tell the OM's wife NOW about the affair OM had with your wife?

I'm sure I'll hear ~~~ "it was raining today, the baby has a hang nail and the dog tracked mud in and it's been too many years and water under the bridge for me to open up that can of worms now"

It amazes me to see a BH's paralyzed by fear and afraid to do the right thing, and even more astonishing to see one TEAM UP with the OM to keep the affair a secret.

Besides, it's never too late, MyRevelations, to "man up" yourself and do the right thing. My wife and I are actually coaching a young couple that just this weekend had the betrayed wife exposing a one night stand her husband had with a married {former} friend of theirs that occurred about 5 years ago on a ski trip in Lake Tahoe. She just found out about it immediately prior to the polygraph. If she can do it this late and under this kind of duress {she just found out the extent of her husband's multiple indiscretions} then surely you can do it now. I don't see how you can respect yourself otherwise.



I'm being ironic above. I really don't care what you do, myrevelations, just that telling this poster to "man up" about exposure while he's desperately trying to do the best he can right now seemed hypocritical to me. He isn't unique or different than almost 98% of ALL betrayed husbands. He's TRYING to weigh his choices and make deliberate decisions {unlike his emotional decision to throw her out}. There's a baby involved which makes divorce and custody a complication so being nervous about that is understandable. He doesn't have the benefit of hindsight like the rest of us and still has hope he can trust his wife or maybe take a short cut. However, he HAS taken action ~ he's snooped and he's confronted and he is much better off than he was a week ago. He is listening, posting {on two forums both kind of saying the same things} and learning. IMO, it wouldn't be "manly" to just do whatever the internet tells him to do {even if it's what he should be doing ~ cough, like, "exposure" ~ wink wink}.


----------



## Quality

DamagedGuy said:


> I read an article about exposure which details however justified, it is a moral grey area.


Written by whom?

These type articles are almost always written by unrepentant wayward {or former wayward but still unrepentant} wayward spouses. 

Stop searching for another opinion and just get the OM's girlfriend done. We can help you figure out the rest later and since you'll be holding your wife accountable for her commitment to "no contact", if she breaks "no contact" you'll be ready to go immediately with nuclear exposure but no rational person can call you vindictive or mean for telling the OM's girlfriend about their relationship and getting yourself another set of eyes watching his side of the street holding him accountable.

If OM's girlfriend dumps him ~ so what? That would be her right and it really won't make the "relationship" he was pursuing with your wife any more attractive or likely. You see ~ absent a girlfriend he can then date ANY available single woman he wants instead of sneaking around with a married patty with a newborn infant. With the cat out of the bag, he'll either throw your wife under the bus and try to blame her OR just disappear.

You won't regret it. Notice no one is stopping by your thread here or on MB saying they exposed and now regret. No one is encouraging you to wait or think twice about it. It's a near consensus that you should expose the whole thing to a least some extent and I just want you to get this done first. OM's girlfriend will get you the most bang for your Looney today and we'll worry about the rest later. 

If your wife doesn't want to be like her mom and is really gonna go "no contact" then she should be perfectly willing to accept this moderate exposure as fair and just. If OM's girlfriend had discovered the affair a few weeks ago with a bunch of evidence, you'd have liked her to tell you, so you're just reciprocating. In fact, the more mad and angry your wife gets ~ the more you'll know you did the right thing because it gives you a good indication she is|was a lot more committed to keeping him around or pursuing him later than you are hoping she is right now. You should probably be asking her why she cares about telling OM's girlfriend at all {if she even finds out about it} and then just let her try to explain.


----------



## turnera

For the record, Quality, nobody here ever advises nuclear exposure.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

For the Record, anything but reconciliation is "nuclear" to certain posters.


----------



## Quality

turnera said:


> For the record, Quality, nobody here ever advises nuclear exposure.


A keyword search of "nuclear exposure" using the advance search function reveals 160 instances of the terms nuclear + exposure appear on TAM. Granted some may just be rejecting the use of the tool but the couple I clicked on were posters other than you and I suggesting and encouraging it.

A google search site:talkaboutmarriage.com "nuclear exposure" revealed 59 instances of the exact phrase.

If no one is advising it, and it's not against the rules somehow???? ~~~then, maybe I'll just take the lead.

Generally, I use the tool when exposing an OM, so my "nuclear" option isn't technically everyone in the entire town approach. I will certainly encourage being strategic when deciding who, say, in the betrayed spouses family needs to know. However, interloping men I want blown up because there is no way to know upfront where the betrayed relative or friend like us might exist that'll step up and take action.

In wayward husband situations, we typically coach the opposite way. Blow up "nuclear" expose the WH as fast as possible but really exposing the OW beyond their immediate family {parents, siblings, grandparents and minister} there really isn't much point beyond that because they {the OW} don't typically care what their family and friends think. However, they DO care what the WH friends and family think of her and will very much resent nuclear exposure on that side because it keeps her from being able to act like she showed up AFTER the separation and|or divorce and be the "new" respectable girlfriend {and be maybe liked by the WH's parents}. Hopefully someone in WH's family and friends someone will step up and bash the WH over the head encouraging him to end it.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, it's used a lot here - to tell the chicken men and women who won't expose at ALL that they don't HAVE to do a nuclear exposure, that they should do a TARGETED exposure, meaning only to the important people in a cheater's life, the ones who will make a difference. Because as soon as they hear the word exposure, they shake in their boots for fear of angering their cheater spouse; they THINK we're telling them to blast it all over Facebook, when we're not.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

Quality said:


> I'm being ironic above. I really don't care what you do, myrevelations, just that telling this poster to "man up" about exposure while he's desperately trying to do the best he can right now seemed hypocritical to me. He isn't unique or different than almost 98% of ALL betrayed husbands. He's TRYING to weigh his choices and make deliberate decisions {unlike his emotional decision to throw her out}. There's a baby involved which makes divorce and custody a complication so being nervous about that is understandable. He doesn't have the benefit of hindsight like the rest of us and still has hope he can trust his wife or maybe take a short cut. However, he HAS taken action ~ he's snooped and he's confronted and he is much better off than he was a week ago. He is listening, posting {on two forums both kind of saying the same things} and learning. IMO, it wouldn't be "manly" to just do whatever the internet tells him to do {even if it's what he should be doing ~ cough, like, "exposure" ~ wink wink}.


[TJ]This is actually rather hilarious when I think back on my own interactions with you over the years on MB and loveshack. You certainly never came to my "defense" in this manner back then. Not that it would have mattered. 

Like I had to and MyRev had to, Damaged is going to have to work out for himself what "plan" he's going to follow. Harley hasn't saved a single marriage. If it appears that he has, it's because the couple in question isn't given proper credit for coming up with their own plan. 

-10th Engineer Harrison


----------



## DamagedGuy

I have been thinking about the lies, the deceit, the fact that she could see that I was struggling with my insane decision to separate, and the fact that she got involved with an already involved OM shortly thereafter. Then she started stringing me along. 

It is evil.

It is difficult to process this. She was being evil. Well, I have something more devious in mind, rather than regular exposure.

I ordered a better GPS real time tracker. OM's GF lives in same township. Our car is in my name, only, so I can track it if I want. If I see that my car is headed towards that township, I will get a message out to the GF that my wife is at her man's house.

I will then sit back and let it sort itself out, then absolutely expose to EVERYONE.

I decided to take this course of action because I simply do not trust my wife, or what she says, right now.


----------



## Ckone1800

DamagedGuy said:


> I ordered a better GPS real time tracker. OM's GF lives in same township. Our car is in my name, only, so I can track it if I want. If I see that my car is headed towards that township, I will get a message out to the GF that my wife is at her man's house.
> 
> 
> 
> I will then sit back and let it sort itself out, then absolutely expose to EVERYONE.
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to take this course of action because I simply do not trust my wife, or what she says, right now.



Yes, this is a really good plan...... all you have to do is watch her 24/7, know exactly when she enters her boyfriends neighborhood, have all of the OMGFs info at your fingertips, hope that she is nearby, hope that your wayward wife is planning an extensive visit and BAM! Caught red handed! There is no chance that this plan will fail!

Um, yeah. Why are you waiting for all of these very specific things to occur before letting the GF know? It's because you fear doing it and know that this is the only way you will have enough courage to do it. 

Please stop. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DamagedGuy

My wife is swearing to give the marriage an honest chance. I want to see of she is going to continue to see the OM anyway. My wife, under normal circumstances, hates confrontation and humiliation. If the GF finds them together, it will shock her.

For my own peace of mind, I need to see if my wife is telling the truth about cutting of OM before I do anything else. My part in this, and my concerns that I mentioned are delaying any further action.

But I will no longer walk on eggshells if she sees him again. Even with what I have been dealing with, a man can only take so much.


----------



## Ckone1800

DamagedGuy said:


> My wife is swearing to give the marriage an honest chance. I want to see of she is going to continue to see the OM anyway. My wife, under normal circumstances, hates confrontation and humiliation. If the GF finds them together, it will shock her.
> 
> For my own peace of mind, I need to see if my wife is telling the truth about cutting of OM before I do anything else. My part in this, and my concerns that I mentioned are delaying any further action.
> 
> But I will no longer walk on eggshells if she sees him again. Even with what I have been dealing with, a man can only take so much.




Seriously, we are not making this stuff up to hurt you or hinder your chances of a successful reconciliation. Exposing the the GF HELPS you and hereby keeping eyes out for any possible contact. It's the easiest way to know if they are still talking. 

Besides, see how you keep making excuses? "If his GF finds them together, it will shock her" is not good enough, and you should accept that. 

If your wayward wife is humiliated by her boyfriends GF knowing about their sexual relationship, then clearly they are still in contact. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> If I see that my car is headed towards that township, I will get a message out to the GF that my wife is at her man's house.
> 
> I will then sit back and let it sort itself out, then absolutely expose to EVERYONE.
> 
> I decided to take this course of action because I simply do not trust my wife, or what she says, right now.


It would have more effect if you go pick up her parents and drive them there and let THEM confront her.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Her mom simply will not care. Her mom exhibited bad behavior her entire life, and was dating up to three men at once, last I knew.

OM lives with his mom and takes care of her. This scene, if it transpires, would automatically include her. 

This is a stratagem. I want to orchestrate this situation, rather than leave regular exposure outcomes to chance. Trust me, my head is clear and if my marriage cannot be saved, the fallout could help me and my children. Or, the fallout will be so painful, my wife may stick with heavy therapy and perhaps we can rebuild.

I know my wife, other than the lying deceitful form of her that she is now. I believe that creating enough chaos during the exposure, having multiple people witness the deceit, is the best solution here.

This has nothing to do with my fear. My wife will automatically assume that I was behind it.


----------



## drifting on

Damagedguy

I exposed my wife's affair to OMW, truly this was only the second thing I feel I did right. The other was to wait six months so my decision came from strength and not emotions. I can only tell you that exposing to OM's wife benefitted me. There was another set of eyes watching his every move as I watched my wife's. Exposure to OMW took pressure off me, it ended up being the best PI I could have without hiring. 

Think about it this way, if she knew the information you do now, would you want her to tell you? Your wife is afraid the girlfriend will find out, but she tells you not to expose so they aren't hurt. Why? Why doesn't your wife walk away from OM if she is so concerned about the girlfriend getting hurt? The truth is your wife doesn't care about your feelings, so how much could she care about the girlfriends? She doesn't care, your wife is strictly caring for herself only, regardless of who she hurts. 

Your wife is only concerned about her reputation. How others see her. I gave you a way to blow that out of the water with Facebook, I even offered to do it for you. You are sitting in a position of weakness, if you need to take an hour to think about this, then act boldly and confidently to end this affair. 

You may feel guilt for what your actions were while you were under the influence of narcotics, but your wife is completely wrong to have found someone new. Have you asked her when she planned to file for divorce? Did she plan on staying separated until she found someone? Did she plan or hope that one day you would come around? If you did come around is she strong enough to work on the marriage? If the roles were reversed, would she expect you to do the same as she did? Get tough on your wife, standing by idly will get you more hurt and no solution. Act now boldly and firmly.


----------



## DamagedGuy

GF lives in my sister's street. I'm gathering intel. I'm preparing for the battles ahead, including exposure. I have IC today, and will talk about what I am going through.


----------



## turnera

Be prepared for your IC to tell you that exposing is wrong. Most ICs are not that deep into how infidelity works, and how to combat it, and they rarely visit places like this to see the real world cases; they only care about 'feelings' and making both parties feel 'heard.' Even if one is cheating. So your IC is likely to tell you not to do it.


----------



## Hope1964

turnera said:


> Be prepared for your IC to tell you that exposing is wrong. Most ICs are not that deep into how infidelity works, and how to combat it, and they rarely visit places like this to see the real world cases; they only care about 'feelings' and making both parties feel 'heard.' Even if one is cheating. So your IC is likely to tell you not to do it.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## DamagedGuy

Counselor said exposure is risky if I want to save the marriage, but not impossible. She agreed with the logic posted here. I'm going to do it. I just need to finish getting my exposure list ready.

I looked at our shop camera, and one of my employees is all but supporting an affair, saying my wife should buy a cheap flip phone, and proceeded to bash me (her boss,) and our marriage.

They also talked about me possibly having to leave the house.

I called the shop, told my wife that I might sell the business (all on my name,) and that the employee is FIRED. Wife freaks out. At the end she gets mad and says, "You don't give time to miss you. Don't call me for the rest of the day!"

Now I'm going nuclear. I should have saved money on the GPS. We still have MC on Monday, but we'll see if we even go. I can't verify it, but it looks like she might have been messaging OM.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

So, if you are the boss what is your wife in the store hierarchy?


----------



## Ckone1800

DamagedGuy said:


> Counselor said exposure is risky if I want to save the marriage, but not impossible. She agreed with the logic posted here. I'm going to do it. I just need to finish getting my exposure list ready.
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at our shop camera, and one of my employees is all but supporting an affair, saying my wife should buy a cheap flip phone, and proceeded to bash me (her boss,) and our marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> They also talked about me possibly having to leave the house.
> 
> 
> 
> I called the shop, told my wife that I might sell the business (all on my name,) and that the employee is FIRED. Wife freaks out. At the end she gets mad and says, "You don't give time to miss you. Don't call me for the rest of the day!"
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm going nuclear. I should have saved money on the GPS. We still have MC on Monday, but we'll see if we even go. I can't verify it, but it looks like she might have been messaging OM.




Of course she is still messaging him, she has had no consequences. Why wouldn't she?

From what you just wrote, it appears as though she has all but checked out of your M, leaving just you to do all of the work. 

Marriage counseling is a huge waste of time and money while your wayward wife is in another relationship, period. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

DamagedGuy said:


> Counselor said exposure is risky if I want to save the marriage, but not impossible. She agreed with the logic posted here. I'm going to do it. I just need to finish getting my exposure list ready.
> 
> I looked at our shop camera, and one of my employees is all but supporting an affair, saying my wife should buy a cheap flip phone, and proceeded to bash me (her boss,) and our marriage.
> 
> They also talked about me possibly having to leave the house.
> 
> I called the shop, told my wife that I might sell the business (all on my name,) and that the employee is FIRED. Wife freaks out. At the end she gets mad and says, "You don't give time to miss you. Don't call me for the rest of the day!"
> 
> Now I'm going nuclear. I should have saved money on the GPS. We still have MC on Monday, but we'll see if we even go. I can't verify it, but it looks like she might have been messaging OM.


DG, let me ask you...

What is the purpose of all this?....of all this sleuthing and sneaking around trying to catch her? 

You had your first wife cheat on you. Your current wife knows this, and yet, instead of standing by you in your time of confusion and waiting for you to heal, she goes off and starts an affair. 

Why are you then wasting time with all this extraneous crap? To heck with all this. File for divorce and be done with her. No marriage is worth this kind of pain. No marriage is worth doing this to yourself. She is an idiot, and you are a bigger idiot for trying to fix this. You have one life to live. Are you going to waste the rest of it by playing Columbo? Doesn't seem like a very happy future to me.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I am exposing. I am going to retain an attorney that I know that my wife doesn't like. I need to think about custody, and dissolving the business.

I'm going to get IC for myself. 

I think that it will take a miracle to save the marriage at this point, and I don't put a lot of stock in miracles.

I am awake.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Friends of OM, his mom, his GF have been told. I posted it on a thread of mine on Facebook, but not my wall. Someone sent a screenshot to my wife.

She texted that she hates me right niw, and that we are done, to file papers.


----------



## Ckone1800

DamagedGuy said:


> Friends of OM, his mom, his GF have been told. I posted it on a thread of mine on Facebook, but not my wall. Someone sent a screenshot to my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> She texted that she hates me right niw, and that we are done, to file papers.




Now she is feeling some uncomfortable consequences. Do not back down, I know it's hard. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DamagedGuy

What to do now...


----------



## Ckone1800

DamagedGuy said:


> What to do now...




Now you focus on you. Fix yourself, heal and recover. You cannot control her, and coercion or manipulation will not be a permanent way to have her choose your M. 

Work on yourself, do something for yourself that you haven't done in a while. 

Your wayward will waffle for a bit, but you cannot get weak now. If you do, she will key into it and work that angle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## xMadame

DamagedGuy said:


> Friends of OM, his mom, his GF have been told. I posted it on a thread of mine on Facebook, but not my wall. Someone sent a screenshot to my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> She texted that she hates me right niw, and that we are done, to file papers.




Over the past 5 days you have gone from 0-60 over your wife and your relationship.

You really need to stop acting, calm down and pull yourself together instead of acting out on her and digging the hole even deeper.

If I was your wife I would hate you too.
You told her it was over and then when she tried to make herself feel better you went all psycho on her. Did you do that so you could blame her for the failure of your marriage?

You pulled the plug. You acted hastily.

Just stop. Stop. Take a few days and clear your head then actually think about what you are doing instead of going all WW 3 on her.
You are making a bad situation that you started worse and are probably ruining any chances at fixing your relationship.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DamagedGuy

The consensus was to expose, so I did. My wife was having an affair, lies about ending it, played around with MC and other things. The OM has a GF. I did something about it.

I do wonder about the Facebook post. A mutual friend asked if that was the right venue for it.


----------



## anchorwatch

You caught her lying and conspiring with others against you, all while you were honestly trying to work things out. What else was there to do?

Of course, she/they are angry, they just lost a part of their control (secrecy and treachery). They will now reevaluate their positions because they have been revealed. They will push back on you. You hold steady, continue forward with your plan and watch her/their actions (not words) as they react to you. The chips will fall where they may now. Then you act accordingly.

BTW, how many EAs did she have during you M?


----------



## xMadame

DamagedGuy said:


> The consensus was to expose, so I did. My wife was having an affair, lies about ending it, played around with MC and other things. The OM has a GF. I did something about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I do wonder about the Facebook post. A mutual friend asked if that was the right venue for it.




It was not right. You humiliated her.

I just spent an hour reading over the entire thread.

You look like a toddler that threw his cookie into a lake then has a temper tantrum because your cookie is gone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DamagedGuy

xMadame said:


> It was not right. You humiliated her.
> 
> I just spent an hour reading over the entire thread.
> 
> You look like a toddler that threw his cookie into a lake then has a temper tantrum because your cookie is gone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seriously!? I posted everything that happened. I owned what I did, and addressing it in IC. My wife knows this. She was having an AFFAIR with a man who HAS A GF. She lied about it, and kept it going when she agreed to MC. She could have just said "No, I agree with the separation and want a divorce."

What part of you is at all okay with her actions?


----------



## Quality

xMadame said:


> It was not right. You humiliated her.
> 
> I just spent an hour reading over the entire thread.
> 
> You look like a toddler that threw his cookie into a lake then has a temper tantrum because your cookie is gone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I suggest you ignore these attacks. This poster just doesn't understand exposure.

It is wrong to have an affair {and cheat on his girlfriend with a married woman}, it is not wrong to tell other people the truth about their lives and expose wrongdoing.


You'll regret it for a short bit but in the end you know you did the right thing. Her anger is a indication that she and OM had every intention of keeping the relationship. If she was really done with OM she wouldn't care that he got exposed.

You did good.


----------



## xMadame

DamagedGuy said:


> Seriously!? I posted everything that happened. I owned what I did, and addressing it in IC. My wife knows this. She was having an AFFAIR with a man who HAS A GF. She lied about it, and kept it going when she agreed to MC. She could have just said "No, I agree with the separation and want a divorce."
> 
> 
> 
> What part of you is at all okay with her actions?




I do not consider what she did an affair.

Marriage is a vow and you ended that vow when you told her that you wanted to split up. Anything she does after that point is fair game. Just because the ink is not dry does not mean she has to live like a nun. 

I know of a lot of people that are separated from their spouses, a few for many years, and are not yet divorced.

What if settling your divorce takes 5 years? Are either of you suppose to go that long without being with someone else in case the other wants to scream infidelity? 

You broke up with her. She at that point was a free woman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Quality

xMadame said:


> I do not consider what she did an affair.
> 
> Marriage is a vow and you ended that vow when you told her that you wanted to split up. Anything she does after that point is fair game. Just because the ink is not dry does not mean she has to live like a nun.
> 
> I know of a lot of people that are separated from their spouses, a few for many years, and are not yet divorced.
> 
> What if settling your divorce takes 5 years? Are either of you suppose to go that long without being with someone else in case the other wants to scream infidelity?
> 
> You broke up with her. She at that point was a free woman.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then why didn't she just date the guy openly and tell the OP to buzz off? She didn't have to lie to him and promise NO CONTACT if it was truly over.

Why should the OP participate in the conspiracy to keep the affair {or relationship} a secret from OM's girlfriend?

Plus, you don't get to commit adultery just because you FEEL like your marriage is over. Lots of waywards declare their marriage is over prior to running off with their affair partner. Married is married. I might have sympathy if a divorce action had been filed and they were separated {and the divorce was in year 2 -5} but it would still be adultery.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> What to do now...


Live your life. Wait it out. Refuse to engage with her.

You'll hear things like:
I was GONNA choose YOU, but you ruined it now.
I'm going to take you for every cent you have.
Everyone thinks you're crazy.
Everyone is laughing at you. 
You'll never see your kids again.
You're insane, controlling, sick.
I never loved you.
I always felt sorry for you.

Stuff like that

Ignore it all.

She's just squirming and trying to find a 'position' that will make her not look like a hooker.


----------



## turnera

xMadame said:


> It was not right. You humiliated her.
> 
> I just spent an hour reading over the entire thread.
> 
> You look like a toddler that threw his cookie into a lake then has a temper tantrum because your cookie is gone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No.


----------



## xMadame

Quality said:


> Then why didn't she just date the guy openly and tell the OP to buzz off? She didn't have to lie to him and promise NO CONTACT if it was truly over.
> 
> 
> 
> Why should the OP participate in the conspiracy to keep the affair {or relationship} a secret from OM's girlfriend?
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, you don't get to commit adultery just because you FEEL like your marriage is over. Lots of waywards declare their marriage is over prior to running off with their affair partner. Married is married. I might have sympathy if a divorce action had been filed and they were separated {and the divorce was in year 2 -5} but it would still be adultery.




You can argue your face off to me but it will be wasted.

She did not FEEL her marriage was over. He asked for a separation. Married is not married. Marriage is a legally binding document. Once separation occurs, everything changes in the eyes of the law.

As for the OM, that is none of the "husbands" business. As soon ad he dumped his wife he lost all right to tell her what to do.
And she lied? Well probably. He was snooping around in her life after he dumped her but they are still living together. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

xMadame said:


> I do not consider what she did an affair.
> 
> Marriage is a vow and you ended that vow when you told her that you wanted to split up. Anything she does after that point is fair game. Just because the ink is not dry does not mean she has to live like a nun.
> 
> I know of a lot of people that are separated from their spouses, a few for many years, and are not yet divorced.
> 
> What if settling your divorce takes 5 years? Are either of you suppose to go that long without being with someone else in case the other wants to scream infidelity?
> 
> You broke up with her. She at that point was a free woman.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No.

And if every person becomes NOT MARRIED every time their spouse says 'we're done,' there'd be a heck of a lot more divorces than there are.


----------



## xMadame

turnera said:


> No.




Yes. 

Sorry.

He ended it. Now he has to live with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ckone1800

xMadame said:


> It was not right. You humiliated her.
> 
> I just spent an hour reading over the entire thread.
> 
> You look like a toddler that threw his cookie into a lake then has a temper tantrum because your cookie is gone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




This is some of the worst commentary I have read in a long time. 

Humiliated a cheating spouse? 

Ugh, she needs consequences lest the status quo continue. 

And I would suggest DG completely ignore this posting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

He didn't end anything. He and his wife had a falling out. Nobody filed anything, nobody 'moved on' openly, and she HID what she was doing from her HUSBAND. Even if YOU don't think they were still married, SHE did.


----------



## xMadame

turnera said:


> He didn't end anything. He and his wife had a falling out. Nobody filed anything, nobody 'moved on' openly, and she HID what she was doing from her HUSBAND. Even if YOU don't think they were still married, SHE did.




They did not have a "falling out". He said it was over. She moved on. Papers are papers and words speak louder than them. Now he has to eat the consequences of his actions. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eric1

DamagedGuy said:


> The consensus was to expose, so I did. My wife was having an affair, lies about ending it, played around with MC and other things. The OM has a GF. I did something about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I do wonder about the Facebook post. A mutual friend asked if that was the right venue for it.




A few hours ago your wife and her boyfriend were having a good laugh over how you've been manipulated (perhaps not in those words). Neither intended to end the relationship. That's why she is mad. Was she this mad when you discovered the affair? NOPE

Nothing about your situation has changed except you've now wrestled control away. YOU are now empowered.

I understand that you may feel like crap right now. There isn't a good person in the world who wouldn't feel like crap. But you have control now. Your wife's abuse of you ends now


----------



## 3putt

xMadame said:


> They did not have a "falling out". He said it was over. She moved on. Papers are papers and words speak louder than them. Now he has to eat the consequences of his actions.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And now, so does she for her actions.


----------



## Quality

xMadame said:


> She did not FEEL her marriage was over.


I THINK you meant to say "She felt her marriage was over"

Feelings aren't facts.

Except to foggy waywards.

If OM wanted privacy, he should have waited until this woman was actually single and ended one relationship before starting another. Messing with a married woman is inherently risky and all men are born knowing this. 

But she can get butt~crack mad and divorce him and be with OM all she wants using whatever rationalization and justification she wants. It's a free country. The OP is not obligated to make it easy for her.


----------



## xMadame

eric1 said:


> Guys - don't feed the xmadame trolling. There is a dude here hurting who needs our help.




Eric1, I am not trolling.

I am sure he is hurting, however people encouraging him to stalk his wife with VARs and to rush to a divorce attorney are not helping.

From 0-5 days this man has been through a whirlwind of pain and emotion.

Stepping back and reflecting and trying to piece it all together is the sensible thing to do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ckone1800

xMadame said:


> Eric1, I am not trolling.
> 
> I am sure he is hurting, however people encouraging him to stalk his wife with VARs and to rush to a divorce attorney are not helping.
> 
> From 0-5 days this man has been through a whirlwind of pain and emotion.
> 
> Stepping back and reflecting and trying to piece it all together is the sensible thing to do.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I believe the recent discussions are about DGs ability to retake some power through exposure, which you pointedly stated that he humiliated her. 

You never made mention of the two items listed above until now. 

Exposure was the right move at this point. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## drifting on

Damaged

Good for you, exposure was your best weapon. Keep the pressure on, if you did what I said in the pm I sent you, then from that account you can post the affair at OM's employer without getting caught. I will still offer to do this if you pm the info to me. Make them squirm, make everything so tight around them that they feel as if they are suffocating. My wife's OM had gotten a new job until I got wind of it. Two weeks later OM is on the unemployment line. Live your life freely now.


----------



## drifting on

xMadame said:


> I do not consider what she did an affair.
> 
> Marriage is a vow and you ended that vow when you told her that you wanted to split up. Anything she does after that point is fair game. Just because the ink is not dry does not mean she has to live like a nun.
> 
> I know of a lot of people that are separated from their spouses, a few for many years, and are not yet divorced.
> 
> What if settling your divorce takes 5 years? Are either of you suppose to go that long without being with someone else in case the other wants to scream infidelity?
> 
> You broke up with her. She at that point was a free woman.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Ink isn't dry yet?? When did damaged or his wife put ink down on paper?? I can say I want a divorce, separation, open marriage or whatever else I want to say. Reality is even though I say those things in the eyes of the state I'm still a married man UNTIL papers are signed. Would that not be correct? Even if it takes five years, papers have to be filled out, signed, and presented to the court. Only then would you be allowed to date. No papers were filed, op did not stalk his wife, op has not slandered his wife, she just happened to make a series of terrible decisions while LEGALLY married and NOT LEGALLY separated. How can you actually say this crap??!!

One other thing, she has made vows, OP has made vows, and shame on her for not researching how to separate or divorce. Instead she has chosen to show her true self as a cheat. If you are on oxygen at home, you may want to increase your amount, it seems that just maybe you aren't getting enough oxygen to your brain on room air. I'm not bashing you, I'm truly concerned for your well being.


----------



## EleGirl

DamagedGuy said:


> Friends of OM, his mom, his GF have been told. I posted it on a thread of mine on Facebook, but not my wall. Someone sent a screenshot to my wife.
> 
> She texted that she hates me right niw, and that we are done, to file papers.


If not on your wall, where did you post it?

What did it say?


----------



## DamagedGuy

I deleted the Facebook post. It was in a thread that I made about an anology to the situation. I started to receive a backlash. I kept it up until my wife saw it.

We had some intense, loud argumenting. It is weird, because while we had disagreements in the past, we always debated and compromised, rather than get into shouting matches.

I did not let up, because I was ready for the realistic possibility that we were done. I kept driving the moral arguments, especially the fact that OM had a GF (and a bad reputation.) I said that I did not want our son to grow up thinking that her behavior was okay. I wouldn't let her spin it. I nailed her "friends" for their role; how evil and twisted they are for their efforts to influence our marriage and for aiding the affair.

My wife began to realize the destruction that a divorce from her actions that would be wrought. Losing her stepson, losing me in NC forever, shattered reputation, shame, destroying families, dissolution of the business, painful and miserable divorce process, splitting time with our son, and continuing to repeat her mistakes.

She broke down hard. Wailing in her hands hard. Apologizing for the damage. She said that I'm the only one who can hurt her because I know her better than anyone, and I did hurt her. OM couldn't hurt her because it wasn't real, he was at a distance. 

She said that she is utterly stressed and completely broken, and that the whole situation is basically a nightmare. I held her, we both cried. But after, I maintained my position. 

We discussed, and she agreed to blocking OM, and that I can assure NC, and that she wants to see if we can rebuild. She wants therapy to find out why she has this behavior, and I agreed since I will no longer tolerate any relationship, with her or anyone else (if we divorce,) where this crap is a factor.

I said that I will no longer be disrespected like this, from her or her fork-tongues friends. I compromised on the employee and will cut pay and have some kind of suspension for a month, rather than fire her. The other friend saw the gravity of what has been done and said she is going to stay in the background, and out of our marriage.

We are going to go together to the MC and lay it all out. I'm still going to prepare for the worst, and not trust my wife until she earns it. Everything is hanging by a thread, so we will see how therapy goes.

That exposure and followup intensity had oddly quick results, but we shall see in the coming days. We are both exhausted from this battle.


----------



## eric1

See? Exposure works!

However you did kind of miss out by just not calling your wife's boyfriend's girlfriend. That way you two could have a running dialogue - four eyes on the problem are better than two. Can you Facebook message her?


----------



## syhoybenden

xMadame said:


> Over the past 5 days you have gone from 0-60 over your wife and your relationship.
> 
> You really need to stop acting, calm down and pull yourself together instead of acting out on her and digging the hole even deeper.
> 
> If I was your wife I would hate you too.
> You told her it was over and then when she tried to make herself feel better you went all psycho on her. Did you do that so you could blame her for the failure of your marriage?
> 
> You pulled the plug. You acted hastily.
> 
> Just stop. Stop. Take a few days and clear your head then actually think about what you are doing instead of going all WW 3 on her.
> You are making a bad situation that you started worse and are probably ruining any chances at fixing your relationship.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



:scratchhead: 


Mmmmmmmmmmm ... Nah. Not really.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> My second and wife had two online indiscretions, one before and one after we were married. I forgave, we worked through it, and things have been relatively great.


 Yeah, but he wasn't hurt, humiliated or damaged when she acted like a toddler.......TWICE. 


Honestly, you need some individual counseling. You made this statement in your OP,


> My marriage has had stress, but nothing out of the ordinary. My first wife cheated on me, and I have had trust issues ever since.


, but you STILL married someone who gave you a MAJOR warning sign BEFORE MARRIAGE. You then remained with someone who did it again. You said trust issues, but your alleged issues have turned out right three times. Again, you need counseling to figure out "YOU", not to figure out "us" issues in your marriage.


----------



## lifeistooshort

moderator warning
Calling other posters trolls will result in a vacation.

The regulars here should know better.


----------



## turnera

Good job. You did an intervention from the drug (OM). Amazing how not getting to keep doing it in secrecy changes things, doesn't it?

Now keep it up. Follow through with the list of things she must do. Since she's a serial cheater, part of that list MUST be sitting down with her parents or siblings (whomever she's closest to) and you all discussing what she did, why, how she came to this, and how to get out of it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

drifting on said:


> Ink isn't dry yet?? When did damaged or his wife put ink down on paper?? I can say I want a divorce, separation, open marriage or whatever else I want to say. Reality is even though I say those things in the eyes of the state I'm still a married man UNTIL papers are signed. Would that not be correct? Even if it takes five years, papers have to be filled out, signed, and presented to the court. Only then would you be allowed to date. No papers were filed, op did not stalk his wife, op has not slandered his wife, she just happened to make a series of terrible decisions while LEGALLY married and NOT LEGALLY separated. How can you actually say this crap??!!
> 
> One other thing, she has made vows, OP has made vows, and shame on her for not researching how to separate or divorce. Instead she has chosen to show her true self as a cheat. *If you are on oxygen at home, you may want to increase your amount, it seems that just maybe you aren't getting enough oxygen to your brain on room air. I'm not bashing you, I'm truly concerned for your well being.*




Speaking as a moderator, please refrain from personally insulting other posters. You can disagree without slinging insults.

Anyone who does this from here on will be going on vacation.


----------



## drifting on

Damaged

I just read your last post, and I am happy for you. The next few days are crucial to both you and your wife, IC is needed for you both. I would also call your MC, see if you can get in today, you will both need to hear calm directions to navigate the next few days. I don't normally recommend to do the following but I believe it is necessary for you to do. 

I would not chance a no contact letter at this time. OM is going to try to make contact with your wife, if OM's girlfriend knows, OM could call angry or try to convince your wife to remain with him. If I were you I would call OM, tell him that any form of contact with you or your wife from this moment forward, will be considered a form of harassment. If OM does not answer his phone or call back, you tell OM he has six hours to contact you. If after six hours OM does not call you tell him you will go to his work with law enforcement to give OM the message. Refer to your Facebook post that discussing this publicly is not a concern of yours. 

I know this sounds as if you are protecting your wife, and you are. But you are also protecting yourself, and showing with action that you do indeed still love your wife enough to care about protecting her. Do not let these lines become blurred, you need to issue consequences but not be cruel either. You are walking a tightrope, and you need to remain focused so you can see if your wife's words hold any meaning. By meaning, I'm saying that her actions match her words. You are practicing trust but verify with your wife, and she needs to be told this is your mindset going forward. 

Damaged, it is also important to remember that you can only control you, nobody else. Your actions and words are to be powerful, no indecision and waffling allowed. Pay close attention to your wife's actions, you are measuring these actions to make your decision from a position of strength. When you attend MC, tell both the therapist and your wife, that you are unable to determine which path you are deciding. At this point in time emotions are leading you both, and for this reason you are waiting six months to make your decision. During these six months you and your wife will work on yourselves, you will also work on repairing the damage between the both of you. You will work on these issues to be better parents in the future, whether you divorce or reconcile. 

After exposure and the ensuing discussions you and your wife have, will leave you drained. I would tell your wife that you will discuss the affair two or three times a week. These talks will only be for forty five minutes, or until one becomes defensive or agitated. If this happens you end the talk, right then, and then continue the talk at your next scheduled time. You won't get through this fast, you have to communicate clearly. Because of what happened when you were on pain medications, I think you should also tell your wife you will not abandon her. Meaning, you will watch her for the next six months and evaluate her actions regarding you and the marriage. 

Best of luck to you damaged, I think you did a great job on the exposure. You have now learned that Facebook can be used for social, family, and sinister reasons.


----------



## MyRevelation

DG,

Well done on taking action to force your WW of the fence.

You have gotten some absolutely STERLING advice and some completely horrendous advice and you've handled as suggested ... "you kept what you could use and discarded the rest".

I know that it may seem that some of us piled on, but it was coming from the voice of experience and was only intended to help you in the long run ... unfortunately all of us BH's have this one common denominator, which makes us all on the same team, even if we may wish we were never drafted into this league ... we are all squarely on Team BH and support our fellow team mates.

Now that you've got the momentum leaning in your direction, don't waffle or go soft. Try to be as calm and detached as possible and continue to follow the advice of the good sources that has created this momentum.

Good Luck and keep pedalling.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Thank you all! I will try to follow the post exposure advice. I also need to eat better and rest, since Iost a lot of weight and can barely sleep. Just exhausted...

My sister contacted OM during the exposure process. She knows more people connected to OM and the GF, and assisted the exposure. I will probably contact OM as suggested. I have been wanting to.

When we were calm and discussing trying to work on things for real this time, she swore on the life of our son that she did not have sex with the OM, that things had not progressed that far. Knowing my wife, I do not believe that she would swear on the life of our son while lying.

I will definitely stay vigilant. If she contacts an OM, I will swiftly take legal action.


----------



## GusPolinski

DamagedGuy said:


> I deleted the Facebook post. It was in a thread that I made about an anology to the situation. I started to receive a backlash. I kept it up until my wife saw it.
> 
> We had some intense, loud argumenting. It is weird, because while we had disagreements in the past, we always debated and compromised, rather than get into shouting matches.
> 
> I did not let up, because I was ready for the realistic possibility that we were done. I kept driving the moral arguments, especially the fact that OM had a GF (and a bad reputation.) I said that I did not want our son to grow up thinking that her behavior was okay. I wouldn't let her spin it. I nailed her "friends" for their role; how evil and twisted they are for their efforts to influence our marriage and for aiding the affair.
> 
> My wife began to realize the destruction that a divorce from her actions that would be wrought. Losing her stepson, losing me in NC forever, shattered reputation, shame, destroying families, dissolution of the business, painful and miserable divorce process, splitting time with our son, and continuing to repeat her mistakes.
> 
> She broke down hard. Wailing in her hands hard. Apologizing for the damage. She said that I'm the only one who can hurt her because I know her better than anyone, and I did hurt her. OM couldn't hurt her because it wasn't real, he was at a distance.
> 
> She said that she is utterly stressed and completely broken, and that the whole situation is basically a nightmare. I held her, we both cried. But after, I maintained my position.
> 
> We discussed, and she agreed to blocking OM, and that I can assure NC, and that she wants to see if we can rebuild. She wants therapy to find out why she has this behavior, and I agreed since I will no longer tolerate any relationship, with her or anyone else (if we divorce,) where this crap is a factor.
> 
> I said that I will no longer be disrespected like this, from her or her fork-tongues friends. I compromised on the employee and will cut pay and have some kind of suspension for a month, rather than fire her. The other friend saw the gravity of what has been done and said she is going to stay in the background, and out of our marriage.
> 
> We are going to go together to the MC and lay it all out. I'm still going to prepare for the worst, and not trust my wife until she earns it. Everything is hanging by a thread, so we will see how therapy goes.
> 
> That exposure and followup intensity had oddly quick results, but we shall see in the coming days. We are both exhausted from this battle.


Good job.

Stand your ground on the employee, though. Cut her loose.


----------



## GusPolinski

DamagedGuy said:


> Thank you all! I will try to follow the post exposure advice. I also need to eat better and rest, since Iost a lot of weight and can barely sleep. Just exhausted...
> 
> My sister contacted OM during the exposure process. She knows more people connected to OM and the GF, and assisted the exposure. I will probably contact OM as suggested. I have been wanting to.
> 
> When we were calm and discussing trying to work on things for real this time, *she swore on the life of our son that she did not have sex with the OM*, that things had not progressed that far. *Knowing my wife, I do not believe that she would swear on the life of our son while lying.*
> 
> I will definitely stay vigilant. If she contacts an OM, I will swiftly take legal action.


Oh boy.

Waywards use this exact line all the time.


----------



## 3putt

DamagedGuy said:


> When we were calm and discussing trying to work on things for real this time, she swore on the life of our son that she did not have sex with the OM, that things had not progressed that far. Knowing my wife, I do not believe that she would swear on the life of our son while lying.


Got some really bad news for you, DG. Whenever a wayward swears on their child's life they didn't have sex, it usually means that they did. And by usually, I mean about 95% of the time.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

DamagedGuy said:


> Thank you all! I will try to follow the post exposure advice. I also need to eat better and rest, since Iost a lot of weight and can barely sleep. Just exhausted...


Yes -- do both!

Nutrition is not only essential to keeping your body functioning, but also your mind.... and the emotions it supports. You must stay nutritionally fortified to fight your emotional battle!

That goes double for sleep! Sleep deprivation has all sorts of horrendous effects. Again, not only will your body suffer, but your ability to process emotions is severely compromised by lack of sleep. Sleep deprivation can take even happy people to very dark places. Given what you're going through, you need all your faculties right now more than ever. 

To facilitate sleep, it helps to have a physical activity you can engage in during the day. Go for a hike, bike ride, hit the weights, head for the park and get into a pickup basketball game (and maybe make some new friends in the process). The options are plentiful; find one that works for you and work your body. It will also sharpen you mind and improve your ability to handle all that is going on. Of course, that nutrition becomes more important as you get more active. They all feed into and reinforce each other: sleep, eat, exercise. They can become a very positive cycle, which is necessary to counter the current negativity in your life. 

I know--easy in principle, but hard to execute. Overcoming the difficulty will also add self confidence, another key to handling your life at this time.


----------



## MyRevelation

DamagedGuy said:


> Knowing my wife, I do not believe that she would swear on the life of our son while lying.


Just a word of caution ... I, and I suspect many other BH's here, got a similar version of the above ... and guess what, IT WAS A LIE!!!

One of the hardest things to deal with I've discovered is the simple fact that I didn't know my WW nearly as well as I thought I new my W. There is just a huge difference in who you think your W was pre-A to what they show themselves to be during and post-A.

Think of it this way, if she can lie, deceive and gaslight you, friends and family about the actual A, which WILL have actual consequences, what's to stop them from lying about swearing of the life of someone else ... think about it, it's not like a lightening bolt will come from the heavens to smite the one who's life was sworn on. It's nothing more than an empty promise ... kind of like swearing before god and family "in sickness and in health", and "foresaking all others". She picked your son's life because of the effect it would have on YOU, but to her its just another empty promise without consequence.


----------



## farsidejunky

GusPolinski said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> Waywards use this exact line all the time.


QFT.


----------



## Sparta

really OP you're going to buy that look dude she's a serial cheater... whatever you do stay with her that's the wrong thing to do but OK. Don't believe the sh!t she says. You're going to reconcile with a serial cheater OK... that seems logical.? And you know cheaters Lie yeah that's one of their biggest assets for all cheaters. OP just be aware and fully understand she slept with him. Well we'll probably hear from you again unfortunately.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Swear on the life? How many threads do you need? It is one of the most common, if not THE most common, phrase uttered on these boards by cheaters of any gender. I won't bring up how many times I've heard it uttered by LIARS, in general, in my actual life.

The more you type the bigger the lie sounds to me. Yes, cheaters almost always say, so do some of their defenders, they are minimizing to help you. Also, I'm waiting for the "she admitted she was scared to tell my because I was <insert what ever bad thing you've done to her ever> !"


----------



## Chaparral

I agree with the poster that she didn't have an affair. OP not only said he wanted a divorce he said things that were designed to stick a stake through the heart of the marriage. Drug induced folly or not,that is the bottom line. Ironically, the exposure may just work. On the other hand,after she has had time to reflect, exposure may end up being yet another stake.
I do not recommend reconciliation with cheaters like I used to do. But what I see here is an in house separation and a newly single woman starting to date. Hopefully,the current damage can be fixed and the family can be saved.


What hurts is the viciousness and disregard for OP's wife who has been put through the ringer. Fault for her dating is 100% on the OP.
Her lying afterward is her's to own. However, she owe's him nothing as he is an ex. I hope this is salvageable but OP needs to accept this is his party and whatever ensues is on him.

What happened after you separated from your wife? Did she then start goin out without you? Were you going out? The reason I ask is when did she have time to date? She dated two men? You decided you didn't want to be divorced when you figured out she was dating another man?
Pay attention to your MC, she sounds better than most. I do think you do d well resisting the more poisonous posts.

Good luck and prayers for your family!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yes and this is why you need individual counseling. You need to understand why you allowed her to stake your courtship and your marriage through the heart, but you accept all blame for ruining the entire marriage. Yes, you forgave her, but she still damaged the marriage as well.


----------



## drifting on

Damaged

I know you're feeling terrible with the emotional dump you are now feeling. Do I want to give you bad news? No. With that said I will tell you this, my wife swore on her grandparents that she didn't have sex with OM. The reason this is said so often and is so often a lie is because waywards want you to stop. Stop trying to find the truth, stop digging at all costs, which is what fuels this dispicable lie to begin with. 

As I said earlier, protect your wife and call OM, this is a courtesy from you that can actually help you at the same time. Do not threaten and only say facts. Do not show emotions or anger, firm and monotone. Stay strong!!


----------



## DamagedGuy

I hear what everyone is saying. My wife lost four pregnancies that were quite a bit along before we had our son. He was born as a micro preemie. Things were touch and go for quite awhile. He is doing great, but still needs vent support during parts of the day and all night. This is why I believe her. My gut instinct is no longer going off about it.

If she did sleep with OM, I cannot prove it at this time. If she did, maybe she will admit it in IC and maybe the counselor will suggest that she be honest with me. But as of now, I just cannot prove it one way or the other.

And I do accept and own my part in this. We were both wrong. But we both need IC and MC to create a safe, affair proof, rock solid new marriage on top of the wreckage of the old one. If we cannot do that, I hope for an amicable end. But I prefer the former.


----------



## drifting on

Chaparral said:


> I agree with the poster that she didn't have an affair. OP not only said he wanted a divorce he said things that were designed to stick a stake through the heart of the marriage. Drug induced folly or not,that is the bottom line. Ironically, the exposure may just work. On the other hand,after she has had time to reflect, exposure may end up being yet another stake.
> I do not recommend reconciliation with cheaters like I used to do. But what I see here is an in house separation and a newly single woman starting to date. Hopefully,the current damage can be fixed and the family can be saved.
> 
> 
> What hurts is the viciousness and disregard for OP's wife who has been put through the ringer. Fault for her dating is 100% on the OP.
> Her lying afterward is her's to own. However, she owe's him nothing as he is an ex. I hope this is salvageable but OP needs to accept this is his party and whatever ensues is on him.
> 
> What happened after you separated from your wife? Did she then start goin out without you? Were you going out? The reason I ask is when did she have time to date? She dated two men? You decided you didn't want to be divorced when you figured out she was dating another man?
> Pay attention to your MC, she sounds better than most. I do think you do d well resisting the more poisonous posts.
> 
> Good luck and prayers for your family!




Respectfully I disagree, and I do usually like most of your posts. The other poster who shared this mentioned vows, and I also question them. I also question why OP's wife never filed for separation or divorce herself, she had every opportunity to do so. Being under the influence of narcotics can cause many things to be said, and if everyone were held to those words, that would cause problems so large no state could cover the fallout. If you are legally drunk (.08) or higher the state considers you impaired. You cannot sign yourself out of a hospital, you can't drive a car, you can be arrested for public intoxication. My point is each person reacts differently to narcotics, some happy, some sad, some combative, some in a stupor. It's all different.

As for the vows the other poster talked about, what if you had the same accident? Same reaction to the medications, what if your spouse did? Have you ever said something while impaired and whoever you said it to took it as written in stone? I sure hope not. What OP said are words while under the influence, it's difficult to use words in court if the person was under the influence. So, for his wife to ignore her vows and think of herself as a single woman, should have taken a different action then she did. 

I will agree to disagree with you on this. This is also different from if you kill somebody while under the influence, that takes an action which OP did not do but OP's wife sure did.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I truly hope that no couple has to go through what happened; the accident, sepsis, meds, losing yourself, hurting your emotional fragule spouse, trying to crawl back, find out that there is an AP, and use what you have left within yourself to fight for a marriage that needs a lot of work in order for both spouses to heal each other, and forgive transgressions, so that a new marriage can be created.

The sorrow is crushing.


----------



## Chaparral

I do don't get the impression he dumped her and she quickly started dating. My take was that they literally,over time, separated at his insistence and she eventually started dating. I think the timeline is important here along with what he said to her specifically.

My point is that dealing with a cheater is not the same as wanting to take someone back that you dumped. I assume that he dumping her wasn't accomplished over night or just in the he heat of an argument.


----------



## DamagedGuy

It is true that in the throes of my guilt over becoming disabled, the depression, the detachment, the 24/7 drugs, and the loss of myself for a while had me saying very hurtful and stupid things. 

Even though I was not in complete control over myself for months, culminating in the worst time of my life when I separated and crushed my wife's heart and trust for me, I don't know if I can forgive myself. I feel terrible through each day for it. 

Looking at my wife last night; broken, despondent, lost, because of both of our actions, I felt horrified, sad, remorseful, and it pained me to see her like that. We both messed up. Me because I was not me for so long, and her because she has self-esteem issues, rejection issues, and is emotionally fragile.

She said that sometimes, if we didn't have her son, she would feel like checking out, from life. She said that she can barely keep it together, since everything has been on her shoulders since the accident: our house, our shop, payroll, managing employees and inventory, our kids, our bills, nursing schedules, not being able to be home as much, being rejected, doing something awful (OoM,w/GF,) lying, relatives dying, her father is dying...

I broke her with what I did. Yes, she was wrong also, but I broke her. Yes, there were past mistakes, but we dealt with it. I opened those scars. Would we have run into marriage issues down the road? Maybe. But -I- triggered this. This is why, with conditions, I am willing for one more shot for us, with intense therapy.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> I truly hope that no couple has to go through what happened; the accident, sepsis, meds, losing yourself, hurting your emotional fragule spouse, trying to crawl back, find out that there is an AP, and use what you have left within yourself to fight for a marriage that needs a lot of work in order for both spouses to heal each other, and forgive transgressions, so that a new marriage can be created.
> 
> The sorrow is crushing.




I don't know how many times I haven't thought that myself as I read a new thread of infidelity. Whether you reconcile or divorce, rebuilding will be a part of your life. Both can be done, with hard honest work, and even though the sorrow is crushing, you will become a better person. Either together or alone, you will get better and feel happiness again.


----------



## turnera

Both of you need a ton of it.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> It is true that in the throes of my guilt over becoming disabled, the depression, the detachment, the 24/7 drugs, and the loss of myself for a while had me saying very hurtful and stupid things.
> 
> Even though I was not in complete control over myself for months, culminating in the worst time of my life when I separated and crushed my wife's heart and trust for me, I don't know if I can forgive myself. I feel terrible through each day for it.
> 
> Looking at my wife last night; broken, despondent, lost, because of both of our actions, I felt horrified, sad, remorseful, and it pained me to see her like that. We both messed up. Me because I was not me for so long, and her because she has self-esteem issues, rejection issues, and is emotionally fragile.
> 
> She said that sometimes, if we didn't have her son, she would feel like checking out, from life. She said that she can barely keep it together, since everything has been on her shoulders since the accident: our house, our shop, payroll, managing employees and inventory, our kids, our bills, nursing schedules, not being able to be home as much, being rejected, doing something awful (OoM,w/GF,) lying, relatives dying, her father is dying...
> 
> I broke her with what I did. Yes, she was wrong also, but I broke her. Yes, there were past mistakes, but we dealt with it. I opened those scars. Would we have run into marriage issues down the road? Maybe. But -I- triggered this. This is why, with conditions, I am willing for one more **** for us, with intense therapy.





Damaged

Without a doubt I believe your words hurt your wife tremendously. I don't doubt your word that you say that you said hurtful and stupid things. You are owning what you have done, you appear remorseful as you feel pain by looking at your wife in pain. It appears to me you feel your wife's pain. The fact that you are accepting and owning your crap is a huge step. I'm also very curious about your behavior while on the medications. Did your wife notice a difference in your behavior? Did she notice how your thinking and processing thoughts changed? I work part time in a hospital, I see people go through this all the time, but the single biggest phrase I hear is that the person taking the medications is just not them self. Things are different and some say they have no idea who this person is. 

People who are normally polite and pleasant to deal with suddenly swing at you. The behaviors are from one end of the spectrum to the other. I have seen people with good careers, become addicted and are now homeless. Some of these pain medications are very strong with unpleasant side effects. Your wife had to have noticed some change in you. 

My biggest concern was how your wife handled this, especially considering her past. I think your wife knew she was wrong, knew she was cheating, and perhaps felt like she was getting even with you. Maybe even had resentment that she cared for you and you were wrong with your words. Sometimes we all have to pull the weight of the other when we get overwhelmed, but she CHOSE to contact to OM's. So while being overwhelmed with all that was going on she had enough to time to start dating. I'm not quite sure what to make of that. 

If you want to give your marriage a gift of reconciliation, I'll support it. There is one thing both of you must agree on now though or your reconciliation will fail, you both must totally commit. You give reconciling everything you have, your going to tire and work hard. It's not easy and it's definitely not for the weak. You both commit with all you have and I will support your decision. I just want you to know that reconciling is not as easy as some think and love is not enough to get you through. Love can be a motivator, but alone it's not enough, how bad do you and your wife want this?


----------



## Yeswecan

DamagedGuy said:


> When we were calm and discussing trying to work on things for real this time, she swore on the life of our son that she did not have sex with the OM, that things had not progressed that far. Knowing my wife, I do not believe that she would swear on the life of our son while lying.


Don't believe it.


----------



## bandit.45

DamagedGuy said:


> Friends of OM, his mom, his GF have been told. I posted it on a thread of mine on Facebook, but not my wall. Someone sent a screenshot to my wife.
> 
> She texted that she hates me right niw, and that we are done, to file papers.


Yeah....her remorse didn't last long did it? 

File.


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> Damaged
> 
> Without a doubt I believe your words hurt your wife tremendously. I don't doubt your word that you say that you said hurtful and stupid things. You are owning what you have done, you appear remorseful as you feel pain by looking at your wife in pain. It appears to me you feel your wife's pain. The fact that you are accepting and owning your crap is a huge step. I'm also very curious about your behavior while on the medications. Did your wife notice a difference in your behavior? Did she notice how your thinking and processing thoughts changed? I work part time in a hospital, I see people go through this all the time, but the single biggest phrase I hear is that the person taking the medications is just not them self. Things are different and some say they have no idea who this person is.
> 
> People who are normally polite and pleasant to deal with suddenly swing at you. The behaviors are from one end of the spectrum to the other. I have seen people with good careers, become addicted and are now homeless. Some of these pain medications are very strong with unpleasant side effects. Your wife had to have noticed some change in you.
> 
> My biggest concern was how your wife handled this, especially considering her past. I think your wife knew she was wrong, knew she was cheating, and perhaps felt like she was getting even with you. Maybe even had resentment that she cared for you and you were wrong with your words. Sometimes we all have to pull the weight of the other when we get overwhelmed, but she CHOSE to contact to OM's. So while being overwhelmed with all that was going on she had enough to time to start dating. I'm not quite sure what to make of that.
> 
> If you want to give your marriage a gift of reconciliation, I'll support it. There is one thing both of you must agree on now though or your reconciliation will fail, you both must totally commit. You give reconciling everything you have, your going to tire and work hard. It's not easy and it's definitely not for the weak. You both commit with all you have and I will support your decision. I just want you to know that reconciling is not as easy as some think and love is not enough to get you through. Love can be a motivator, but alone it's not enough, how bad do you and your wife want this?


She says that she is all in, as am I. Because I think that we got lucky with the quality of our chosen MC, and if we can be devoted, it has a good chance. I will see how our Monday appointment goes.

I'm hoping that limiting contact while she is at work allows us to miss each other, and that we spend time together when she is home, and going out to do small things to start, while keeping relationship/damage discussions to a minimum for now, while following any steps laid out by the MC. I will remain vigilant, and continue with my personal healing, growth, and improvements.


----------



## DamagedGuy

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah....her remorse didn't last long did it?
> 
> File.


It was a natural exposure reaction, from everything that I have read.


----------



## turnera

Natural reaction for an unremorseful person. Unless you're seeing snot running down her face from crying her eyes out, begging you not to leave her, she was just mad at you for messing up her life.

We'll see.


----------



## lisamaree

DG,

Quit blaming yourself for her cheating. She is the one who chose to cheat, and if she truly felt the relationship was over she would have filed divorce. This is 100% her fault and don’t let her say otherwise. Does she show true remorse for the pain she has inflicted on you, or are her cries and sadness centered around her own pain as a result of what you did?

The fact is, you had an excuse for what you did. And you’ve apologized, and taken many sincere steps towards fixing the problem. She has no excuse whatsoever. Any other posters who have tried to justify what she did are just plain wrong. If she truly felt your marriage was over it is more likely she wouldn’t have taken steps to hide the affair from you, continued it after MC, or picked an OM who was in a relationship. She could have filed for divorce, or at the very least a legal separation.

She is the one at fault here. She is using this to pin the blame on you. The marriage will never work until she takes full accountability for what she did and stops blaming you and what you did when you are not of the right mind. Many other couples have had their spouse do similar as a result of PTSD and they didn’t run off cheating for validation of their feelings. Just because someone hurts your feelings doesn’t give you permission to solicit other men for gratification. If this is a trait she has, I fear for you because this will happen again in your future.

I hope you can reconcile with your W but I have some serious doubts you won’t be back in a couple more years with a repeat offense, and your wife still waiving it in your face that you hurt her feelings and this is the result. I doubt your wife is truly remorseful for the pain she put you through, too.


----------



## Chaparral

The single biggest piece of advice I will give is that you keep your emotions in check. That doesn't mean be emotionless. It means there are ups and downs. Your job is to level things out. Do not submit to angry outbursts even when provoked. Look to the next moment when things will be calm. Be strong. 
Download the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER from Barnes and Noble or amazon. You will quickly see how you undermined ed yourself and how you can be a more worthy partner inthe future with your wife or someone else.
Men are bad patients. Everyone knows it. I expect your wife finally accepted what you were telling her and simply gave up. I doubt this is irreparable. Get the MMSLP book. Even though you accept blame it is still no time to be a wimp and do the pick me dance.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Damaged, I think your ability to have compassion for your what your wife went through in the aftermath of your accident is going to be tremendously important in moving forward, whether it be with her or alone.  

We all know that accident was horrible for you, but it's easy to forget that your wife was a casualty as well. Caregivers often are.....

By your own admission she had to shoulder everything.....the business, kids, your care, and then eventually you telling her that you wanted out. There's only so much someone can take before they snap.

This can get lost here on TAM when there's an affair involved.....posters get hysterical over the affair, the betrayed spouse becomes a saint, and the wayward spouse must be on their knees grovelling.

I get that you didn't mean what you said to her, but on top of everything else going on she couldn't take it. I'd suspect that in the back of her mind her thing with OM was justified as the one little thing she did for herself as well as you telling her you were done, which might be why she lashed out at you. I can remember a thread here where a husband cheated and the wife had been very sick.....she'd been told to have compassion for what he went through with her illness. I think this is somewhat gender biased in that women are assumed to be caregivers so more is expected, in much the same way that a guy who abandons his kids is seen as a scumbag but a woman who abandons her kids is the devil himself.

I have mixed feelings about exposure myself for reasons that wouldn't be productive to go into here, but I can understand why you'd do it and I agree that the partner of the other man/woman deserves to know. But I think telling your wife that you can't imagine what she must have been going through after your accident and you're sorry that she chose to look elsewhere would go a long way toward healing this marriage. The dynamic where you have a caregiver is much more complicated then a garden variety entitled cheater. Please don't let that get lost here......you can have boundaries and conditions and still have compassion for what she went through.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

DamagedGuy said:


> What to do now...


File papers


----------



## DamagedGuy

My wife talked with me a bit about things. She had a day to think. She is committed to going to MC/therapy, but she is still saying "I'm going to go to MC to see if the marriage can be saved." I'm saying that I'm going to MC to save the marriage.

She says she understands that I exposed to OM's GF, but that my facebook post which I deleted after an hour, hurt her, and she feels like hurting her is becoming a pattern. I told her that hurting her is not my intention at all.

She will probably be in the "I'm not sure I want this marriage" stage for a while.

In the meantime, I ate better today and got in some exercise, and downloaded the Married Man Sex Life Primer and began reading it.


----------



## turnera

NO REMORSE.

A remorseful woman doesn't BLAME you for hurting her. She doesn't CONSIDER whether to save the marriage.

YOU ARE BEING PLAYED.


----------



## DamagedGuy

She seemed to display remorse last night. Today, she felt that I was trying to hurt and shame her out of malice with the Facebook post. Plus, she told me that there are people telling her that she should leave the marriage, though they don't know about OM. 

I have read that after exposure, they are still in the fog for a bit. She did admit that contact with OM was in case we didn't work out. I'm not sure that she heard herself say that, because that is pretty bad, as far as I am concerned. But she also had admitted to her issue that she doesn't want to be alone. To me, it seems like she wants to be with someone, and hopes that love will come later.

I think that marriage is a technicality for her, that if I'm her mind the relationship is done, she can move on. But the fact that we have a family, a stepson she will lose, and that she still feels love for me, is making her hold on.

It is weird, because after that conversation, we were both sitting in the living room on my side of the house, listening to music, and talking as though everything is fine. Lots of conversation, teasing, some laughing. It is all surreal. 

I did ask if there was any OM contact, and she said that the last was a text to him saying that she is sorry, when she realized I exposed, and that he did not answer her back. Also, I received confirmation from his GF that she received my message. I think OM is in the dog house.

I'm going to follow the plan for MC/therapy while I rebuild myself, retain an attorney just in case we don't work out as my wife would say, and prepare for the worst, you know, just in case.

It looks like people are not happy about my facebook post that I deleted. I did post that in the heat of the moment, still angry about what occurred in my shop, and trying to think of who I should expose to. But people are siding with her on it. I should have just stuck with OM's GF, family, friends.


----------



## eric1

She broke No Contact after you exposed? That is really not good.

You need to man up and call the gf so that you can compare notes. He may have admitted more than your wife has.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> She seemed to display remorse last night. Today, she felt that I was trying to hurt and shame her out of malice with the Facebook post.


*This is not remorse.*

Words are easy, DG. And trust me, women KNOW HOW to turn on the waterworks to get what they want. In this case, for you to STOP EXPOSING. And it worked, didn't it?

Remorse is concern for the person you hurt. It is NOT concern for your own situation. That is the antithesis of remorse - that is putting one's self ahead of the other - just like when they were cheating.

Remorse is willing to go to your important people and admit what you did in person and apologize because YOU GET IT. You GET that what you did was abhorrent. 

It is NOT trying to protect your image.

smdh

Skip the MC and go straight to your own counselor.


----------



## farsidejunky

turnera said:


> NO REMORSE.
> 
> A remorseful woman doesn't BLAME you for hurting her. She doesn't CONSIDER whether to save the marriage.
> 
> YOU ARE BEING PLAYED.


QFT.


----------



## farsidejunky

turnera said:


> *This is not remorse.*
> 
> Words are easy, DG. And trust me, women KNOW HOW to turn on the waterworks to get what they want. In this case, for you to STOP EXPOSING. And it worked, didn't it?
> 
> Remorse is concern for the person you hurt. It is NOT concern for your own situation. That is the antithesis of remorse - that is putting one's self ahead of the other - just like when they were cheating.
> 
> Remorse is willing to go to your important people and admit what you did in person and apologize because YOU GET IT. You GET that what you did was abhorrent.
> 
> It is NOT trying to protect your image.
> 
> smdh
> 
> Skip the MC and go straight to your own counselor.


DG, read this carefully.

Never watch what a person says. Always watch what they do.

So, what is she done? Talked. A lot of it. Some of it is sounded promising, and some has not sounded promising at all.

Ultimately she is going to do what she wants to do. At that point in time, she will show which path she is following.

Remember this statement:

"Your actions speak so loud that I can't hear your words."

Use it when she inevitably starts hurting you again. Please note that I said when. I don't believe for a moment she's on board.

Neither should you, until her actions prove otherwise.

Don't allow your guilt to trick you into tolerating things you shouldn't.


----------



## DamagedGuy

It does seem like this marriage has not been what I thought it was, even when things seemed good.

Telling me that she,was basically shopping in case we didn't work out is pretty messed up.

She is a serial cheater. I don't think she ever felt bad about it. I think that she felt bad about getting caught.

But some people are thinking that I over reacted with the Facebook post, or that I said that if we divorce, my stepson can't be in her life like he is now. They don't have all the facts, but my reputation is taking a hit.

Family is practically begging me to sell our business and divorce her. I do think it would take a miracle to save this. I am worried about my living situation and the custody situation with our son.

This is such a gigantic mess.


----------



## farsidejunky

DamagedGuy said:


> It does seem like this marriage has not been what I thought it was, even when things seemed good.
> 
> Telling me that she,was basically shopping in case we didn't work out is pretty messed up.
> 
> She is a serial cheater. I don't think she ever felt bad about it. I think that she felt bad about getting caught.
> 
> But some people are thinking that I over reacted with the Facebook post, or that I said that if we divorce, my stepson can't be in her life like he is now. They don't have all the facts, but my reputation is taking a hit.
> 
> Family is practically begging me to sell our business and divorce her. I do think it would take a miracle to save this. I am worried about my living situation and the custody situation with our son.
> 
> This is such a gigantic mess.


Yet you are in the driver seat as far as determining how you come out of this mess.

You have agency here, if you'll only choose to use it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Wait, whose son is the stepson?

I thought he was yours but you just said "my stepson" can't be in her life.


----------



## Dyokemm

So you understand from what she has been saying that part of all this is she just doesn't want to be alone....

Well then, I think you had better take the 'no PA' statements with a bit of salt.....

If she was desperate to get him attached fast so she wouldn't be alone, and felt the feelings could come later (as you said)....then what would be her best 'tool' for hovering him in, especially since he was already in a relationship?

The answer of course would be new and exciting sex.

And this also means you really need to find out what went down with ex fling and their two meet ups.....the 'other' OM from this terrible time in your M who seems to have been forgotten in all the drama over Facebook POS.

Could be that she approached him to be her fall back guy....but he rejected her because he's now M?

But then, why TWO meetings?

Maybe she was vaguely testing the waters the first time....and when she directly asked the second, he shot her down.

OR.....maybe they reignited their old love, but he dumped her after the second time because she wanted more and he just saw it as sex.

You REALLY need to find out what went on with this guy too.

But like I said.....what you shared about how she has said that part of this whole fiasco was her desire to not be alone is a HUGE red-flag for either one or both of these being PA IMO.

Women know that the quickest way to pull a new man in is to throw sex at him.....calculating that they can try to build the emotional connection after he is already 'hooked'.

If she truly was that desperate to not be alone, then you would be foolish not to assume she went there (PA).


----------



## DamagedGuy

lifeistooshort said:


> Wait, whose son is the stepson?
> 
> I thought he was yours but you just said "my stepson" can't be in her life.


I have a son from a previous relationship, and my wife has been in his life since he was 15 months old. My wife and I have a son, together.

My concern is how a divorce situation will affect my son, and how NC with my wife and/or a change of living conditions will affect him. I don't want to lose time with him for him to be hanging out with my wife if we divorce, or how it will affect him seeing every parental figure in his life having multiple splits/moving on. 

The situation is beyond just the separation/OM/lies.


----------



## dianaelaine59

DamagedGuy said:


> I have a son from a previous relationship, and my wife has been in his life since he was 15 months old. My wife and I have a son, together.
> 
> My concern is how a divorce situation will affect my son, and how NC with my wife and/or a change of living conditions will affect him. I don't want to lose time with him for him to be hanging out with my wife if we divorce, or how it will affect him seeing every parental figure in his life having multiple splits/moving on.
> 
> The situation is beyond just the separation/OM/lies.




Yes it always affects children in some way. 

But you know what? SHE did that! SHE caused that! Not you. 

When she decided to cheat, SHE laid this on her children. 

And if you both own a duplex, you need to discuss splitting it with a lawyer asap. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> My wife talked with me a bit about things. She had a day to think. She is committed to going to MC/therapy, but she is still saying "I'm going to go to MC to see if the marriage can be saved." I'm saying that I'm going to MC to save the marriage.
> 
> She says she understands that I exposed to OM's GF, but that my facebook post which I deleted after an hour, hurt her, and she feels like hurting her is becoming a pattern. I told her that hurting her is not my intention at all.
> 
> She will probably be in the "I'm not sure I want this marriage" stage for a while.
> 
> In the meantime, I ate better today and got in some exercise, and downloaded the Married Man Sex Life Primer and began reading it.



@turnera is absolutely correct, no remorse. I would Eve take this a step further and say no guilt either. Prepare yourself damaged, I think this affair is going far underground. Also schedule that poly, this is not the time to be soft. Next time she says you hurt her and it's becoming a pattern, you tell her the marriage issues are separate from the affair. That she went to MC while continuing contact with OM, that she has shown no remorse whatsoever for her cheating. Tell her if she feels hurt over the Facebook post say I'm sorry you feel that way. Tell her your vows cover sickness and in health. You were sick with a traumatic injury and given medications that have mind altering effects. Tell her you are sorry she can't hold true to her vows, but in no way will you accept another man to enter your marriage. 

I said you need to be firm, and what she said you should have jammed those words down her throat. You should also tell her that if she continues that line of thought you will be divorced. Yes you need to have compassion for your wrongs to the marriage, but you still need to be firm regarding the affair. Also tell her to delegate someone at work to forward any messages towards the enabling coworker. Your wife does not speak to that coworker again. In fact that would be a post on Facebook to make that frien leave. Regarding the other friend who said she will now step back from your marriage, I would post how she gives advice and support to cheat. You want everything toxic removed at any cost. If feelings get hurt to bad, they should have been a better person. 

As for the coworker, find anything you can to fire her legally. Shouldn't be hard to do as companies have so much power. Make the coworkers life miserable at your company so she quits on her own. I've seen employees moved to isolated areas to basically put them in solitary until they quit. Sometimes given an office away from everyone, kind of left to rot with nobody around. 

You don't need to be mean, firm and resolute regarding the affair, compassion towards the marriage. You both own fifty percent of the marriage problems, the affair is hers regardless of what you said. She could have filed at any time, she didn't, and I do recommend that you file and hopefully she is served in front of said coworker.


----------



## dianaelaine59

drifting on said:


> @turnera is absolutely correct, no remorse. I would Eve take this a step further and say no guilt either. Prepare yourself damaged, I think this affair is going far underground. Also schedule that poly, this is not the time to be soft. Next time she says you hurt her and it's becoming a pattern, you tell her the marriage issues are separate from the affair. That she went to MC while continuing contact with OM, that she has shown no remorse whatsoever for her cheating. Tell her if she feels hurt over the Facebook post say I'm sorry you feel that way. Tell her your vows cover sickness and in health. You were sick with a traumatic injury and given medications that have mind altering effects. Tell her you are sorry she can't hold true to her vows, but in no way will you accept another man to enter your marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> I said you need to be firm, and what she said you should have jammed those words down her throat. You should also tell her that if she continues that line of thought you will be divorced. Yes you need to have compassion for your wrongs to the marriage, but you still need to be firm regarding the affair. Also tell her to delegate someone at work to forward any messages towards the enabling coworker. Your wife does not speak to that coworker again. In fact that would be a post on Facebook to make that frien leave. Regarding the other friend who said she will now step back from your marriage, I would post how she gives advice and support to cheat. You want everything toxic removed at any cost. If feelings get hurt to bad, they should have been a better person.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the coworker, find anything you can to fire her legally. Shouldn't be hard to do as companies have so much power. Make the coworkers life miserable at your company so she quits on her own. I've seen employees moved to isolated areas to basically put them in solitary until they quit. Sometimes given an office away from everyone, kind of left to rot with nobody around.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't need to be mean, firm and resolute regarding the affair, compassion towards the marriage. You both own fifty percent of the marriage problems, the affair is hers regardless of what you said. She could have filed at any time, she didn't, and I do recommend that you file and hopefully she is served in front of said coworker.




I never have understood why people don't just divorce instead of cheat. Cake and eat it too I suppose. Ridiculous. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Let me ask you a few questions.

Would you please describe what led up two the first two incidents with your wife?
What did you do to adress the indiscretions each time?


----------



## DamagedGuy

I will remain firm and resolute. I'm not going to continue to tolerate disrespect and blame shifting. I was angry and determined the other night. I backed off for the moment for breathing room, plus she had two medical procedures today, but I'm not backing down, that is for sure. The employee will suffer a type of suspension, but she is already looking for another job. I can fire her fkrcany reason in my state, and I downloaded the offensive security footage. It amazes me that they would be like that in front of MY camera, that I installed, given that my wife doesn't know how I found out about the OM.

I agree that she should have moved to divorce if she wanted someone else. She didn't even file a legal separation, and she had the time to do so. But no, she started talking to OM, and said she was willing to go to MC, and still kept OM in the picture, while hurting me badly. During our fight, I said that her actions were actually evil, and that I'm not the only one potentially hurt my her actions.

The first indiscretion happened because she saw an old fling and they started a sexual email exchange. I saw it when I needed to use her phone. We had been together for two years and had bought a house. The second one was a year later, and she was stressed out about many things. My oldest son who is now out of the house rebelled against our relationship and was rather difficult. I had been laid off but found work as a landscaper, but money was tight, and we were still learning how to balance our responsibilities. She was talking to a married guy that was her boyfriend in high school, and it turned into sexting. I exposed it immediately, to the world on my facebook wall (a lot more direct than the post I made and deleted,) exposed to the OM's wife,y family, close friends of ours, and sent a message to the OM. She begged for forgiveness on her knees, the following day. We talked about it and dealt with it, and moved on from it. 

Intimacy and sex lessend, which bothered me, but it started after we lost a pregnancy, before the 1st indiscretion. Other than that, we got along great, had fun, lots of laughs. But it was more like being married to a best friend. Four years after the 2nd indiscretion, I had the accident, and months later, this situation.


----------



## Chaparral

Why would she have remorse? She got viciously dumped and started dating. I've read enough of this to know we're not being given all the facts. 
We do know he said they were divorcing. We also now know one was living in one half the house and one was living in the other half.

I'm totally shocked at the venom being heaped on the person who got dumped unceremoniously. I don't actually see why she would want him back. Being ill and on dope is no excuse to demand a divorce and vilify ones spouse that is taking care of you. Demented or not that would kill most relationships. Also OP has conveniently left out how long he abused her before she gave up.


----------



## drifting on

Damaged

You have said a couple times your wife is feeling remorse. Let me show you why I don't think she is remorseful. 
Facebook, you exposed, has your wife explained that she had an OM and that is why you did it? 

Has she told anyone that she went to MC and still contacted OM to keep that relationship alive? 

Has she said to you that she knows having a boyfriend must have hurt you badly? 

Did your wife continue lies up until yesterday? 

Why would she apologize to OM for you exposing? 

Have you asked her what it felt like to know you exposed and her first thought was OM? 

Have you told her that saying I'm going to MC to work on the marriage to see if the marriage can be saved has done to you? 

Your wife hasn't done one ounce of hard work. She cries and you feel terrible, sorry damaged, she is only thinking of herself. This clearly shows she has no remorse, and I'm not even sure about guilt. Have you talked to her that since you took her back and reconciled for past cheating, that she should have fought to keep you? Did she not see that you obviously loved her enough to take her back? Ask her what she brings to the table now, after you suffered a traumatic injury, that you should take her back?

Damaged you need to be firm with her on this affair crap. Do not allow her throw any of that crap around. Tell her if she wants to know who is at fault to look in the mirror. Ask her if she has the strength to not go outside the marriage if a problem arises? Tell her that her track record isn't exactly fulfilling to her vows, is it?


----------



## drifting on

Chaparral said:


> Why would she have remorse? She got viciously dumped and started dating. I've read enough of this to know we're not being given all the facts.
> We do know he said they were divorcing. We also now know one was living in one half the house and one was living in the other half.
> 
> I'm totally shocked at the venom being heaped on the person who got dumped unceremoniously. I don't actually see why she would want him back. Being ill and on dope is no excuse to demand a divorce and vilify ones spouse that is taking care of you. Demented or not that would kill most relationships. Also OP has conveniently left out how long he abused her before she gave up.




Still respectfully disagree, not even damaged or his wife can tell you how impaired his thoughts were. Op was in an accident that required narcotics to treat. These can greatly influence a persons thoughts that people who knew them well don't recognize who they are on medication. I find it hard to believe that OP's wife did not notice a huge change in OP's behavior. Besides, she dealt with the way she did in the past and ran out to date someone. All the while the man she loved(?) lay healing from a traumatic injury. She cared so well for him that she began dating someone. Then tells OP she began dating him "if we didn't work out". That shows along with dating OM during MC that OP's wife knew exactly that she was cheating and that it was wrong. She even got friends to support her dating while married. And again I ask were separation papers filled out or signed? Did OP or his wife file? OP's wife was actually in a better situation to file as it seems OP was probably restricted in moving around and/or driving. 

The wife did nothing, didn't file, dated, and all while not legally separated. She then lied, gathered support, probably due to more lies, and even contacted OM first after exposure.


----------



## MyRevelation

drifting on said:


> Still respectfully disagree, not even damaged or his wife can tell you how impaired his thoughts were. Op was in an accident that required narcotics to treat. These can greatly influence a persons thoughts that people who knew them well don't recognize who they are on medication. I find it hard to believe that OP's wife did not notice a huge change in OP's behavior. Besides, she dealt with the way she did in the past and ran out to date someone. All the while the man she loved(?) lay healing from a traumatic injury. She cared so well for him that she began dating someone. Then tells OP she began dating him "if we didn't work out". That shows along with dating OM during MC that OP's wife knew exactly that she was cheating and that it was wrong. She even got friends to support her dating while married. And again I ask were separation papers filled out or signed? Did OP or his wife file? OP's wife was actually in a better situation to file as it seems OP was probably restricted in moving around and/or driving.
> 
> The wife did nothing, didn't file, dated, and all while not legally separated. She then lied, gathered support, probably due to more lies, and even contacted OM first after exposure.


Plus, in addition, OM had a steady GF, so BOTH were cheating, and BOTH knew they were cheating.


----------



## lucy999

I suggest that you retain an attorney immediately. Today. Your wife has flat out told you that you are Plan B. That would be enough for me to leave. At least have a consultation ASAP so you know what your rights are. Just because you talk to an attorney doesn't mean you have to file for d. Knowledge is power.


----------



## eric1

You need to talk directly to her boyfriend's girlfriend. Pretend you are in a doctor's office and you are in for lung cancer. You smoke two packs a day. What do you think is the first thing that he is going to tell you to do? Stop smoking. You need to talk to the other girlfriend. That is your smoking. You really don't have another option here man. No facebook posts. Just pick up the phone and call her.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I hear you, drifting on. I am watching and listening to my wife. She was telling me earlier why she went after OM, and she wants therapy to stop this behavior. Unless she is a sociopath, I don't think that she really wants to live like that.

She said that she was beginning to realize that things were not going to go anywhere with OM, as they are not in the same level. She said it was hard to stop talking to him because of my mood swings, and smothering because I kept pushing MC and working on the marriage, and that OM couldn't hurt her since she feels that I know what words to say that sting. I was guilty of that when I had lost myself. I know that those could be excuses, but maybe therapy will get her to see the truth. I don't know yet.



lucy999 said:


> I suggest that you retain an attorney immediately. Today. Your wife has flat out told you that you are Plan B. That would be enough for me to leave. At least have a consultation ASAP so you know what your rights are. Just because you talk to an attorney doesn't mean you have to file for d. Knowledge is power.


I still plan on doing this. I refuse to be caught off guard.




Chaparral said:


> Why would she have remorse? She got viciously dumped and started dating. I've read enough of this to know we're not being given all the facts.
> We do know he said they were divorcing. We also now know one was living in one half the house and one was living in the other half.
> 
> I'm totally shocked at the venom being heaped on the person who got dumped unceremoniously. I don't actually see why she would want him back. Being ill and on dope is no excuse to demand a divorce and vilify ones spouse that is taking care of you. Demented or not that would kill most relationships. Also OP has conveniently left out how long he abused her before she gave up.


I never told her that I wanted a divorce. The part that I played is why I am holding on at all. Plus, she is still admitting to her man jumping, slef-esteem, wanting to not feel rejected, can't stand on her own without someone issues. I have given all the facts that I can remember. It would not benefit me, my wofe, or my marriage if I purposefully left anything out. Everything is true, only I left out real names.

She is going to continue to make hour drives every week for both IC (and MC) to address it, not matter what happens to us. She really likes our therapist. I'm going to work on my PTSD. 

If we can rebuild and become,rock solid, great. If not, at least we tried and exhausted all options before divorcing.



eric1 said:


> You need to talk directly to her boyfriend's girlfriend. Pretend you are in a doctor's office and you are in for lung cancer. You smoke two packs a day. What do you think is the first thing that he is going to tell you to do? Stop smoking. You need to talk to the other girlfriend. That is your smoking. You really don't have another option here man. No facebook posts. Just pick up the phone and call her.


I tried to get GF's number, and I couldn't. She was given all the details. In multiple messages. She answered back, and will contact me if she has any questions. I have a feeling that OM will be on a short, tight leash.


----------



## dianaelaine59

Chaparral said:


> Why would she have remorse? She got viciously dumped and started dating. I've read enough of this to know we're not being given all the facts.
> We do know he said they were divorcing. We also now know one was living in one half the house and one was living in the other half.
> 
> I'm totally shocked at the venom being heaped on the person who got dumped unceremoniously. I don't actually see why she would want him back. Being ill and on dope is no excuse to demand a divorce and vilify ones spouse that is taking care of you. Demented or not that would kill most relationships. Also OP has conveniently left out how long he abused her before she gave up.




Did you read about her indiscretions BEFORE his accident?

And what "abuse" are you referring to?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Chaparral

drifting on said:


> Still respectfully disagree, not even damaged or his wife can tell you how impaired his thoughts were. Op was in an accident that required narcotics to treat. These can greatly influence a persons thoughts that people who knew them well don't recognize who they are on medication. I find it hard to believe that OP's wife did not notice a huge change in OP's behavior. Besides, she dealt with the way she did in the past and ran out to date someone. All the while the man she loved(?) lay healing from a traumatic injury. She cared so well for him that she began dating someone. Then tells OP she began dating him "if we didn't work out". That shows along with dating OM during MC that OP's wife knew exactly that she was cheating and that it was wrong. She even got friends to support her dating while married. And again I ask were separation papers filled out or signed? Did OP or his wife file? OP's wife was actually in a better situation to file as it seems OP was probably restricted in moving around and/or driving.
> 
> The wife did nothing, didn't file, dated, and all while not legally separated. She then lied, gathered support, probably due to more lies, and even contacted OM first after exposure.


I have zero regard for the paperwork. Assume the wife is your daughter and is being mistreated in this fashion. He won't tell us what he actually said to her. He won't tell us how long he mistreated her. He doesn't tell us what she did in response or tried to do if anything to make things better.

Evidently, they separated into two halves of a duplex home. I can only speak for myself but not only would I start looking but the only convo I would have under these circumstances would be about the children.

Not buying for a minute about his drug problem. Unless he wants to say he got addicted to pain killers since everyone else is making up their own version of this mess.

From what he says alone, he is very lucky his wife isn't t my daughter. A crushed leg would be the least of his problems.

If he is looking to continue dumping her and his family, he is getting excellent advice.


----------



## bandit.45

DamagedGuy said:


> But some people are thinking that I over reacted with the Facebook post, or that I said that if we divorce, my stepson can't be in her life like he is now. They don't have all the facts, *but my reputation is taking a hit.*


What rep? Your Facebook rep? 

Big deal. Screw those people. They are not your friends. Screw them and the paper horses they rode into town on...


----------



## drifting on

Chaparral said:


> I have zero regard for the paperwork. Assume the wife is your daughter and is being mistreated in this fashion. He won't tell us what he actually said to her. He won't tell us how long he mistreated her. He doesn't tell us what she did in response or tried to do if anything to make things better.
> 
> Evidently, they separated into two halves of a duplex home. I can only speak for myself but not only would I start looking but the only convo I would have under these circumstances would be about the children.
> 
> Not buying for a minute about his drug problem. Unless he wants to say he got addicted to pain killers since everyone else is making up their own version of this mess.
> 
> From what he says alone, he is very lucky his wife isn't t my daughter. A crushed leg would be the least of his problems.
> 
> If he is looking to continue dumping her and his family, he is getting excellent advice.




Again chaparral, respectfully as I do value and respect your posts. 

If this were my daughter, I would have ripped into for her first two poor choices of contacting men for validation and self esteem issues, OUTSIDE the marriage. I would have told her how lucky she is that damaged offered the gift of reconciliation in the first place. I would tell her how lucky she is to have a husband who would give her this second chance, as many wouldn't.

Now, due to a traumatic injury and on medications known to create irrational thinking. You can dispute this or not buy into it, but I have personally seen the effects of these drugs. Damaged didn't have a drug problem, at least he hasn't stated so, so I'm assuming he took them as prescribed. Again I would counsel my daughter as to the effects of these drugs and refer her to damageds physician for proper clarification to the side effects. 

It appears they separated during his injury, each living in a half of the house. I would ask my daughter if she has noticed behavioral issues with damaged and again refer her to his physician. 

If "my daughter" stated to me that there was abuse not inflicted under heavy medication I would advise her to move back in with me. I would then move in with damaged, and he will need a stronger prescription. I would advise my daughter to file for divorce, legal separation, or whatever she needs to to end the marriage. 

If "my daughter" were to do as damageds wife did, I would again be ripping her butt about marriage. About deception and lies, why go to MC, basically just ask her how she grew up this way as o certainly didn't raise her to be that way. 

Sorry chaparral, just the way I see it from what is posted. And I know you didn't mention Facebook, but I would have told my daughter she deserved it, it is the third time she has cheated.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chaparral said:


> I have zero regard for the paperwork. Assume the wife is your daughter and is being mistreated in this fashion. He won't tell us what he actually said to her. He won't tell us how long he mistreated her. He doesn't tell us what she did in response or tried to do if anything to make things better.
> 
> Evidently, they separated into two halves of a duplex home. I can only speak for myself but not only would I start looking but the only convo I would have under these circumstances would be about the children.
> 
> Not buying for a minute about his drug problem. Unless he wants to say he got addicted to pain killers since everyone else is making up their own version of this mess.
> 
> From what he says alone, he is very lucky his wife isn't t my daughter. A crushed leg would be the least of his problems.
> 
> If he is looking to continue dumping her and his family, he is getting excellent advice.


I was high doses of fentanyl and oxycodone, 24/7, for MONTHS. Two 100 patches for 200mcg/hr. When I separated, I was still taking oxycodone for withdrawal and for pain, had been off of fentanyl for a short time, along with trazadone and cymbalta, which really screwed with my wiring. I also didn't have a decent night's rest from the accident until now, nor could I eat well, and I felt nauseous everyday. My short term memory was greatly affected, and I had crushing depression.

I felt immense guilt, and was telling my wife that I non longer had value, should have died, and that she deserves better.

After the separation, I said things from misperceptions about certain things, and I was never like this before. I was in a high impact motorcycle accident, bouncing and flipping and slamming into the road, the shoulder, and grass. I broke my back, shattered my leg from the hip down, and shattered my wrist. I was wearing a helmet, but my head slammed into the ground numerous times, and smashed half of my face. I required multiple surgeries, and almost lost my leg below the knee. I lost muscle and flesh to necrosis and required skin grafts. They had me on so many pain killers that they said I would die of they have me anymore.

A month and a week later, I developed sepsis, my brain cooked at 105.3, I went into a coma, amd,mu family thought that it was the end. After that, I was shipped to a nursing facility where I tried not to lose my mind, while still in all of the drugs, chronic pain, and crushing depression and feelings of guilt. People were busy keeping things together, and I was alone for much of the time. The facility wouldn't let my son stay the night. I barely was able to see our baby.

I was going insane.

When I came home, I felt relief. Them I felt like I was a burden, and felt utterly worthless. My wife was stressed to the max, and I just couldn't see why at the time. I would rep either for four hiurs, or 15, and,it didn't matter. I felt exhausted and was a zombie from November onward. When I separated from my wife, I had no idea who I was anymore. I couldn't see past my disability, and was hopeless and depressed. 

I immediately started struggling with what I did, but couldn't pull myself out of it. It took me a month, shocked at myself for putting my marriage on the line and hurting my wife, to get me head out of my rear.

I NEVER maliciously hurt my wife. Do you understand me? DO YOU!?


----------



## eric1

> I tried to get GF's number, and I couldn't. She was given all the details. In multiple messages. She answered back, and will contact me if she has any questions. I have a feeling that OM will be on a short, tight leash.


But you have questions, not her. Namely - do the stories that you have both received match up?

You need this information, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.

And I (strongly) disagree with people who are saying that you deserve this. Right this instant we have a guy experiencing infidelity, with a wife whom retained contact with a boyfriend that she was physical with even after it was clear that it was damaging you tremendously. Not "I'll back off and have an adult discussion with the guy I'm still legally married to". Nope, still continued a physical affair. 

If it was NOT an affair then all she needed to do was say "you asked to move on and I agree with you. Let's continue with the divorce". But that's not what she did.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chaparral said:


> Not buying for a minute about his drug problem. Unless he wants to say he got addicted to pain killers since everyone else is making up their own version of this mess.


True, you included.


----------



## DamagedGuy

We had a good day yesterday, and things are so far so good this morning. My wife is talking about things in the future for us, "if we make it." Though when she talks about those things, her voice sounds like she either hopes we do, or expects that we will.

She did get a little upset, because I told my sister the other day that my wife and her two toxic friends laughed and talked down on my sister when she sent my wife a heartfelt text. She said I tell certain people too much, and it "makes it hard for her." I told her that the last thing I'm trying to do was cause anymore hurt, and that my sister had called while I was hurting, sad, and angry. I think that these things should come out sooner, rather than later, so that we can talk about it now or in MC, than make a lot of gains and then have emotional setbacks that could be avoided.

We are hugging more. We are watching tv/movies, and eating together. We are talking, smiling, and laughing now and then. We talk a little bit about what has happened, and then give it a rest.

Wife and stepson sat together on the couch and watched a kids movie. She looked through his school stuff, signed a permission slip, and we discussed his attending swimming lessons and summer rec. All of these things are things she will have to think about losing of are marriage dies.

She has to drive to our business. I rearranged my schedule to tag along because I have to address the employee situation. So I'm trying to be around her as much as possible without following/hovering. I'm keeping it normal and natural.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> I was high doses of fentanyl and oxycodone, 24/7, for MONTHS. Two 100 patches for 200mcg/hr. When I separated, I was still taking oxycodone for withdrawal and for pain, had been off of fentanyl for a short time, along with trazadone and cymbalta, which really screwed with my wiring. I also didn't have a decent night's rest from the accident until now, nor could I eat well, and I felt nauseous everyday. My short term memory was greatly affected, and I had crushing depression.
> 
> I felt immense guilt, and was telling my wife that I non longer had value, should have died, and that she deserves better.
> 
> After the separation, I said things from misperceptions about certain things, and I was never like this before. I was in a high impact motorcycle accident, bouncing and flipping and slamming into the road, the shoulder, and grass. I broke my back, shattered my leg from the hip down, and shattered my wrist. I was wearing a helmet, but my head slammed into the ground numerous times, and smashed half of my face. I required multiple surgeries, and almost lost my leg below the knee. I lost muscle and flesh to necrosis and required skin grafts. They had me on so many pain killers that they said I would die of they have me anymore.
> 
> A month and a week later, I developed sepsis, my brain cooked at 105.3, I went into a coma, amd,mu family thought that it was the end. After that, I was shipped to a nursing facility where I tried not to lose my mind, while still in all of the drugs, chronic pain, and crushing depression and feelings of guilt. People were busy keeping things together, and I was alone for much of the time. The facility wouldn't let my son stay the night. I barely was able to see our baby.
> 
> I was going insane.
> 
> When I came home, I felt relief. Them I felt like I was a burden, and felt utterly worthless. My wife was stressed to the max, and I just couldn't see why at the time. I would rep either for four hiurs, or 15, and,it didn't matter. I felt exhausted and was a zombie from November onward. When I separated from my wife, I had no idea who I was anymore. I couldn't see past my disability, and was hopeless and depressed.
> 
> I immediately started struggling with what I did, but couldn't pull myself out of it. It took me a month, shocked at myself for putting my marriage on the line and hurting my wife, to get me head out of my rear.
> 
> I NEVER maliciously hurt my wife. Do you understand me? DO YOU!?




I sometimes see accidents and injuries where I think it just may have been better if the person died. By this I look at the quality of life the person is left with after being saved. Many of these accidents and injuries can leave these people to suffer from chronic pain the rest of their lives. Some have disabilities that the person just can't ever recover from. The mind also takes a traumatic hit, and sometimes that hit can be worked out and sometimes it can't. Damaged, you appear to be traumatized from your accudent, that is a natural human response for what you have gone through. Wishing you had died from your accident is also a natural human reaction. 

You have extensive work to do on yourself damaged, additionally, you are going to work on your marriage. Damaged, you need to assess yourself before you can move forward from here, an honest assessment of yourself. Physically, how far along are you? Are you able to work eight hour days? Are you anywhere near what you were before the accident? What till does this take on you? After work can you care for the kids? Can you do things around the house that need to be done after work? I'm asking because I don't know how far along you have come. I will also add this, your health is your first priority. If you can't care for yourself you definitely can't care for others. Please don't take that the wrong way, but you need to heal you first.

In many ways I'm very angry with your wife, in many ways I think you'd be better off without her. But you said you were leaning to reconcile and I agreed to support you. Your wife's biggest issue is abandonment issues. So your priority if you wish to reconcile is to calm those fears in her. Reassure her you are not leaving, you want the marriage and fix your problems you brought into the marriage. Show your wife with actions that your plans include her, by your side. Address in MC what you did wrong, as well as what you are doing to correct these wrongs. Communicate clearly and effectively. This will need to start now as hard as it seems to do that. By the way, your wife isn't feeling smothered by you, she felt guilty she ran to another man when she had one all along in you. What she felt were the feelings she used to have for you, but she thought they had vanished. Obviously they didn't vanish from her, but what she was feeling was how wrong her choices and actions with OM are wrong. 

If you want this marriage, then take it, firmly lay out your boundaries to your wife. Any deviation in these boundaries moves divorce forward. By the way, in MC you tell your wife you are filing, you will have her served, and that she has six months to prove she wants the marriage. If your MC is as good as you say, then she will agree to this. Also tell your MC of the two other times your wife cheated. Tell your MC that after therapy your wife went right back to OM, and this is the reason you are filing. Tell your MC you trust she has your best interests at heart, and that she will have her work cut out for her too. Tell your wife she has more work then she's ever had before, that you know how she responds ignorantly by having an affair. Tell her she will now have to do this work alone on herself, all the while trying to prove she is worthy of reconciliation. 

You work on forgiveness first, then tge problems of the marriage. Your wife had better own her affairs or you don't stand a chance damaged. Start this now, incorporate your MC into this plan, then get started on doing the work. I wish you the best.


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> I sometimes see accidents and injuries where I think it just may have been better if the person died. By this I look at the quality of life the person is left with after being saved. Many of these accidents and injuries can leave these people to suffer from chronic pain the rest of their lives. Some have disabilities that the person just can't ever recover from. The mind also takes a traumatic hit, and sometimes that hit can be worked out and sometimes it can't. Damaged, you appear to be traumatized from your accudent, that is a natural human response for what you have gone through. Wishing you had died from your accident is also a natural human reaction.
> 
> You have extensive work to do on yourself damaged, additionally, you are going to work on your marriage. Damaged, you need to assess yourself before you can move forward from here, an honest assessment of yourself. Physically, how far along are you? Are you able to work eight hour days? Are you anywhere near what you were before the accident? What till does this take on you? After work can you care for the kids? Can you do things around the house that need to be done after work? I'm asking because I don't know how far along you have come. I will also add this, your health is your first priority. If you can't care for yourself you definitely can't care for others. Please don't take that the wrong way, but you need to heal you first.
> 
> In many ways I'm very angry with your wife, in many ways I think you'd be better off without her. But you said you were leaning to reconcile and I agreed to support you. Your wife's biggest issue is abandonment issues. So your priority if you wish to reconcile is to calm those fears in her. Reassure her you are not leaving, you want the marriage and fix your problems you brought into the marriage. Show your wife with actions that your plans include her, by your side. Address in MC what you did wrong, as well as what you are doing to correct these wrongs. Communicate clearly and effectively. This will need to start now as hard as it seems to do that. By the way, your wife isn't feeling smothered by you, she felt guilty she ran to another man when she had one all along in you. What she felt were the feelings she used to have for you, but she thought they had vanished. Obviously they didn't vanish from her, but what she was feeling was how wrong her choices and actions with OM are wrong.
> 
> If you want this marriage, then take it, firmly lay out your boundaries to your wife. Any deviation in these boundaries moves divorce forward. By the way, in MC you tell your wife you are filing, you will have her served, and that she has six months to prove she wants the marriage. If your MC is as good as you say, then she will agree to this. Also tell your MC of the two other times your wife cheated. Tell your MC that after therapy your wife went right back to OM, and this is the reason you are filing. Tell your MC you trust she has your best interests at heart, and that she will have her work cut out for her too. Tell your wife she has more work then she's ever had before, that you know how she responds ignorantly by having an affair. Tell her she will now have to do this work alone on herself, all the while trying to prove she is worthy of reconciliation.
> 
> You work on forgiveness first, then tge problems of the marriage. Your wife had better own her affairs or you don't stand a chance damaged. Start this now, incorporate your MC into this plan, then get started on doing the work. I wish you the best.


Thank you for your support. I don't want to file. I think that my wife feels bad, and I think that true remorse will come through therapy. We,do have a lot or work before us.

I'm coming along well, physically, and the mental issues are getting better by the day, but they are still there. They are not as intense as they were, and the whole wishing I died in The accident is gone. I am still sad and angry with myself for how I treated my wife, which set all of this into motion. We are both guilty for things right now. 

Physical therapy has really helped, and the chronic pain is becoming more tolerable. I'm exercising almost every day, and ate three meals yesterday. We both have sleep issues right now.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

DamagedGuy said:


> Physical therapy has really helped, and the chronic pain is becoming more tolerable. I'm exercising almost every day, and ate three meals yesterday.


This is great to hear! This is a necessary part of a solid foundation for any kind of decision making. Hope you keep that ball rolling...


----------



## Chaparral

My point is simple. And I think you get it because you do accept blame. I was making the point that this isn't the typical cheater script that most cheaters follow like a Bible. 

So me folks think that until a divorce is decreed seeing other people is cheating. I think the marriage is over when the vows are broken. In your case you separated from your wife. I assume that was a prelude for divorce. You haven't mentioned any trouble in the marriage that you wanted to work on. Your wife has gone through severe trauma too. She has literally had to watch you come back from the dead and then be told she is now separated. Yet another blow. I don't knOw how you put it but it sounds like you were done with the marriage.

I'm truly sorry for your situation. Hope the MMSLP book helps. Hope and pray you heal and if you decide to do more bike riding I hope your disability and life insurance is in place. Also what would happen to your son if something happened to him. Why hasn't your wife adopted him. Losing him has been another blow she has had to deal with not to mention the premie.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chaparral said:


> My point is simple. And I think you get it because you do accept blame. I was making the point that this isn't the typical cheater script that most cheaters follow like a Bible.
> 
> So me folks think that until a divorce is decreed seeing other people is cheating. I think the marriage is over when the vows are broken. In your case you separated from your wife. I assume that was a prelude for divorce. You haven't mentioned any trouble in the marriage that you wanted to work on. Your wife has gone through severe trauma too. She has literally had to watch you come back from the dead and then be told she is now separated. Yet another blow. I don't knOw how you put it but it sounds like you were done with the marriage.
> 
> I'm truly sorry for your situation. Hope the MMSLP book helps. Hope and pray you heal and if you decide to do more bike riding I hope your disability and life insurance is in place. Also what would happen to your son if something happened to him. Why hasn't your wife adopted him. Losing him has been another blow she has had to deal with not to mention the premie.


I appreciate your support.

I do not blame my wife like I normally would in an OM situation, because of what I do and that the situation isn't black and white. I understand why people have different positions.

Any bike riding will be down the road and very limited to events. I'm honestly not thinking about riding at all right now.

My wife did not adopt my son because his mother is highly involved in a 50/50 custody situation.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> Thank you for your support. I don't want to file. I think that my wife feels bad, and I think that true remorse will come through therapy. We,do have a lot or work before us.
> 
> I'm coming along well, physically, and the mental issues are getting better by the day, but they are still there. They are not as intense as they were, and the whole wishing I died in The accident is gone. I am still sad and angry with myself for how I treated my wife, which set all of this into motion. We are both guilty for things right now.
> 
> Physical therapy has really helped, and the chronic pain is becoming more tolerable. I'm exercising almost every day, and ate three meals yesterday. We both have sleep issues right now.




Damaged

Had this been your wife's first time cheating I would be more inclined to go with your suggestion. However, your wife has proven time and again that if things get challenging, her coping skill is to find another OM, and frankly that scares me. The last time you said she was on her lnees begging for reconciliation. The reason I have been hard on her is not to anger you, but for you to see what she does. The reason I reject the fact that you said you wanted to divorce and separate is because of the bad place you were in both mentally and physically. You lost a part of your leg, so yes, you will be on very strong narcotic pain killers aside from your other injuries. @Chaparral, I want to make it clear I'm not saying this towards you, I'm saying this to OP and why I feel so strongly opposite that you posted. 

Your wife damaged, has cheated twice before the accident, both times given the gift of reconciliation. Damaged, when you were facing massive injuries, multiple medications and therapy, and spoke while impaired, I believe your wife should have stayed at your side. In my opinion she abandoned you in your greatest time of need, when you were at your most broken. I question her loyalty, her love, her commitment, and her way of thinking. If you take your spouse back from cheating you are showing with action your love for that spouse, and quite frankly your wife needed to be much stronger. She wasn't, she went straight out and found another OM, she continued with the same thought process as before, it gets challenging, I need another OM. As much as that hurts to read damaged, it's also the truth. This is why I have pushed you to file whether you want to or not. At the very least I would say this in MC so your wife can feel the shame of her decision with a little intensity behind it. So she can think deeply about how she is as a person, a spouse, and a mother. Your wife in other words needs to grow the **** up. 

I still support you damaged, and I don't dislike your wife, but I'll like her more if she can be a better person and own her **** as you have.


----------



## turnera

I hope to God you will start off MC by saying "My wife has cheated on me three times. I want to stay together, but I have to figure out how I can be sure she is CHANGED."


----------



## DamagedGuy

I understand why everyone feels the way that they do. My fears based on the past are there. I do not know how effective therapy will be for my wife. I don't know that we will stay married even if it is. Maybe we can rebuild and be rock solid. I don't know.

I did tell the MC while in IC about all three indiscretions. She thinks that If we are making marital progress, it will take at least a year before I trust her again. My wife has said more than once in the past days that she wants to change her behavior.

Right now, however, the situation with the employee is casting a dark shadow over us. I decided on a suspension, rather than a firing because we simply cannot operate without her, right now. My wife tried to get her to stay, but she immediately put out applications, had an interview, and a place called my wife for a reference.

My wife says that she is upset with the situation, though I'm sure that part of her is thinking that if I didn't do the damned separation thing, none of this would be happening. Part of me also feels this way. It is depressing, and I feel anxious about it, and I am still angry at myself for it. No matter what my wife and others have done since, my actions set it all into motion. Other than working on myself and trying to be a good husband for my wife, I don't know how to make my part in all of this, right. I think we both wonder how we can come back from all of this.


----------



## lifeistooshort

drifting on said:


> Damaged
> 
> Had this been your wife's first time cheating I would be more inclined to go with your suggestion. However, your wife has proven time and again that if things get challenging, her coping skill is to find another OM, and frankly that scares me. The last time you said she was on her lnees begging for reconciliation. The reason I have been hard on her is not to anger you, but for you to see what she does. The reason I reject the fact that you said you wanted to divorce and separate is because of the bad place you were in both mentally and physically. You lost a part of your leg, so yes, you will be on very strong narcotic pain killers aside from your other injuries. @Chaparral, I want to make it clear I'm not saying this towards you, I'm saying this to OP and why I feel so strongly opposite that you posted.
> 
> Your wife damaged, has cheated twice before the accident, both times given the gift of reconciliation. Damaged, when you were facing massive injuries, multiple medications and therapy, and spoke while impaired, I believe your wife should have stayed at your side. In my opinion she abandoned you in your greatest time of need, when you were at your most broken. I question her loyalty, her love, her commitment, and her way of thinking. If you take your spouse back from cheating you are showing with action your love for that spouse, and quite frankly your wife needed to be much stronger. She wasn't, she went straight out and found another OM, she continued with the same thought process as before, it gets challenging, I need another OM. As much as that hurts to read damaged, it's also the truth. This is why I have pushed you to file whether you want to or not. At the very least I would say this in MC so your wife can feel the shame of her decision with a little intensity behind it. So she can think deeply about how she is as a person, a spouse, and a mother. Your wife in other words needs to grow the **** up.
> 
> I still support you damaged, and I don't dislike your wife, but I'll like her more if she can be a better person and own her **** as you have.



While i agree that his wife has a history of turning to other men, she most certainly did not abandon him. She took care of everything with zero appreciation from him right up until he told her he wanted out.

Ok, I get that he was in crisis and reevaluated his wish to separate, but you can't honestly think the fact that he decided he didn't mean it means it should have no effect on her.

This was a devastating situation for both of him.....i mean his accident. Why is it fair to cut him all kinds of slack for nasty behavior while she doesn't get the same courtesy?

Caregiving can destroy the toughest, most upstanding characters even when the ill spouse doesn't proclaim they want out.


----------



## DamagedGuy

lifeistooshort said:


> While i agree that his wife has a history of turning to other men, she most certainly did not abandon him. She took care of everything with zero appreciation from him right up until he told her he wanted out.
> 
> Ok, I get that he was in crisis and reevaluated his wish to separate, but you can't honestly think the fact that he decided he didn't mean it means it should have no effect on her.
> 
> This was a devastating situation for both of him.....i mean his accident. Why is it fair to cut him all kinds of slack for nasty behavior while she doesn't get the same courtesy?
> 
> Caregiving can destroy the toughest, most upstanding characters even when the ill spouse doesn't proclaim they want out.


This is why I'm fighting for my marriage. After we moved past what had happened before, things were relatively good. We get along great, under normal circumstances. We have many of the same goals and dreams. Could the marriage have been better? Absolutely. Can it be? I think that with help and our own work, we can make it happen.

As we talk, it is as though we expect a future with both of us in it. I'm owning up to things that I know that I personally need to improve on. She will learn through therapy. I'm also going to ask for a script to help with my moods, such as depression bouts and anxiety/ptsd symptoms. I'm being proactive at addressing the reasons why all of this started.


----------



## drifting on

lifeistooshort said:


> While i agree that his wife has a history of turning to other men, she most certainly did not abandon him. She took care of everything with zero appreciation from him right up until he told her he wanted out.
> 
> Ok, I get that he was in crisis and reevaluated his wish to separate, but you can't honestly think the fact that he decided he didn't mean it means it should have no effect on her.
> 
> This was a devastating situation for both of him.....i mean his accident. Why is it fair to cut him all kinds of slack for nasty behavior while she doesn't get the same courtesy?
> 
> Caregiving can destroy the toughest, most upstanding characters even when the ill spouse doesn't proclaim they want out.




I have seen strong pain medications change people into people they never were before. Never even displayed this type of behavior or even give a slight hint they were this way. What OP said would definitely dishearten his wife, but she should also know his true self. Had damaged ever expressed separating or divorce prior to the medications? Did his wife speak to any doctor regarding the change in behavior from Damaged? Did she take into account that even after cheating twice he stayed with her? Did she take into account the severity of his injuries, a broken back and amputated leg? I can't believe people are actually condoning what she did. Yes, she cared for him, she also began dating. What kind of loyalty did she show? Because she nursed him? Because she was there some of the time? Don't forget, as he is recovering she found the time to date someone. 

No, she is clearly in the wrong, went right back to her previous cheating ways when a challenge presented itself. Have you given any thought to damaged here? Do you know what it's like to wang to die? That you are a burden? Have you actually tried to kill yourself? Do you know what it's like to lose all hope and faith to the point death is your only answer? Have you lost part of your leg? Do you know that feeling? If the tables were reversed and she told damaged she wanted a divorce and separation would she say he is cheating? Would she have the heart that he has and take him back? Would she have taken him back after he cheated twice? 

This has been presented as my daughter, what I would I do then. I answered honestly, I wouldn't approve of the behavior damageds wife has shown. What did the wife do? Did she file? Did she legally separate? No, she didn't do anything and then posters say they don't care about paperwork. No, of course nobody cares about paperwork, now it's because he said the words that she can date. Be real. She could have done a number of things but once again went to her cheating ways. Did damaged do wrong? A resounding hell yes! But for her to look at her husband, damn near die, amputated leg, broken back, forgave her cheating twice, offered the gift of reconciliation TWICE, and she goes to find an OM when she clearly has to see the change in damageds behavior? Despicable at best is the only way to describe it. 

As for being a caregiver, I've done it for both of my grandmothers. One died from cancer and the other died while suffering from dementia. My grandmother who died of cancer was on a machine that dispensed pain killers. She became very erratic in her behavior, only showed me love my entire life. When she said she hated me and hit me I knew it wasn't her. I TALKED TO THE DOCTOR , found this was common with strong pain killing drugs. Did I leave my grandmother? NO! I stayed with both, my other grandmother I sat with after we had to take her to a nursing home. We couldn't provide the care she needed anymore. I was at the nursing home and fed her the purée dinners they made for her. On one occasion I held her hand, she looked at me and smiled. My heart warmed thinking she knew who I was. She gently patted my hand and said "I'm not that kind of woman", that broke my heart. I remember that to this day very clearly as it hurt so much to hear. But I didn't abandon either of my grandmothers, I held their hands as they passed. Damageds wife did clearly abandon him to care for him and have time to find a new boyfriend.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> I understand why everyone feels the way that they do. My fears based on the past are there. I do not know how effective therapy will be for my wife. I don't know that we will stay married even if it is. Maybe we can rebuild and be rock solid. I don't know.
> 
> I did tell the MC while in IC about all three indiscretions. She thinks that If we are making marital progress, it will take at least a year before I trust her again. My wife has said more than once in the past days that she wants to change her behavior.
> 
> Right now, however, the situation with the employee is casting a dark shadow over us. I decided on a suspension, rather than a firing because we simply cannot operate without her, right now. My wife tried to get her to stay, but she immediately put out applications, had an interview, and a place called my wife for a reference.
> 
> My wife says that she is upset with the situation, though I'm sure that part of her is thinking that if I didn't do the damned separation thing, none of this would be happening. Part of me also feels this way. It is depressing, and I feel anxious about it, and I am still angry at myself for it. No matter what my wife and others have done since, my actions set it all into motion. Other than working on myself and trying to be a good husband for my wife, I don't know how to make my part in all of this, right. I think we both wonder how we can come back from all of this.




Your wife should be thinking if she didn't go find a new boyfriend and then involve employees that work for her this never would have happened. Your wife should also be thinking you were nice enough to give a reference that wasn't damning for her participation in ridiculing you. Your wife apparently needs to understand the repercussions of her own stupid choices. Who would involve a coworker who works with you both about an affair anyway? Why don't you ask your wife why she involved this coworker?


----------



## drifting on

@lifeistooshort, I'm cutting OP some slack but also telling him to own his actions. His wife on the other hand is blame shifting to OP about the affair. Damageds wife can't say she didn't notice the change in behavior with damaged. He most likely never presented this way to her before. He took his wife back after cheating twice, for that fact alone she should have stayed loyal. She has self esteem issues in that she can't be alone, she needs a love interest, no matter who it hurts.


----------



## lifeistooshort

DamagedGuy said:


> This is why I'm fighting for my marriage. After we moved past what had happened before, things were relatively good. We get along great, under normal circumstances. We have many of the same goals and dreams. Could the marriage have been better? Absolutely. Can it be? I think that with help and our own work, we can make it happen.
> 
> As we talk, it is as though we expect a future with both of us in it. I'm owning up to things that I know that I personally need to improve on. She will learn through therapy. I'm also going to ask for a script to help with my moods, such as depression bouts and anxiety/ptsd symptoms. I'm being proactive at addressing the reasons why all of this started.


Im really happy to hear that. By all means have good boundaries, and have her address in counseling what she's going to do next time she's overwhelmed so it does not involve other men. 

You seem like a good guy who's been through trauma, and your wife seems like someone who does the best she can and when she gets overwhelmed makes poor choices.

And please, in the future do not tell her you want out if you don't mean it. You can't do that and expect her not to look elsewhere.


----------



## TDSC60

lifeistooshort said:


> While i agree that his wife has a history of turning to other men, she most certainly did not abandon him. She took care of everything with zero appreciation from him right up until he told her he wanted out.
> 
> Ok, I get that he was in crisis and reevaluated his wish to separate, but you can't honestly think the fact that he decided he didn't mean it means it should have no effect on her.
> 
> This was a devastating situation for both of him.....i mean his accident. Why is it fair to cut him all kinds of slack for nasty behavior while she doesn't get the same courtesy?
> 
> Caregiving can destroy the toughest, most upstanding characters even when the ill spouse doesn't proclaim they want out.


I'm not ignoring his behavior and how he basically abandoned his wife and family. For him to suddenly do a 180 has to be confusing and painful for her all over again. I can see why she is reluctant to commit - she does not fully believe the sudden change and is waiting for the other shoe to hit the floor. I can see that she may have been hurt so much that she can never return to marriage with him. And all this is a result of what he has done.

But on the other hand her obsessive need for a male companion is troubling.

I am just suggesting that if she continues to hold back, it will be best for everybody concerned to go their separate ways.


----------



## DamagedGuy

TDSC60 said:


> I'm not ignoring his behavior and how he basically abandoned his wife and family. For him to suddenly do a 180 has to be confusing and painful for her all over again. I can see why she is reluctant to commit - she does not fully believe the sudden change and is waiting for the other shoe to hit the floor. I can see that she may have been hurt so much that she can never return to marriage with him. And all this is a result of what he has done.
> 
> But on the other hand her obsessive need for a male companion is troubling.
> 
> I am just suggesting that if she continues to hold back, it will be best for everybody concerned to go their separate ways.


I did not abandon anyone. We interacted and talked, I just kept screwing it up. She asked me a couple of times before 5/5 if I wanted to try to work things out. I really did, but I couldn't get the right words out. I couldn't tell myself to stop it, to quit being illogical and being irrational with how I was trying to rationalize why I was being that way. There wasn't a day that went by without some interaction.

While fighting myself, I ceased any attempts to further divide our house, remove pictures, or erase her. I was struggling with myself; the real me who would never leave my wife, and the weird, post trauma and 24/7 drugs me who forgot who the real me was. It was maddening, for both of us.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> My wife says that she is upset with the situation, though I'm sure that part of her is thinking that if I didn't do the damned separation thing, none of this would be happening. Part of me also feels this way.


Let me get this straight. Because YOU got in an accident, an accident which would have KILLED nearly every other person, and you then went through months and YEARS of pain, fear, therapy. near mindlessness yet clearly so far out of your mind that you did not know who you were let alone what to DO with your life - because of THAT, and you moving out, she is now due a free pass? 

Even if she WAS evil and selfish enough to use the worst thing that ever happened in your life against you, how does that account for the OTHER two times she cheated because she just 'couldn't deal' with things?

You are about the most codependent guy I've ever come across. I hope you get some individual therapy AWAY from her.


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> Let me get this straight. Because YOU got in an accident, an accident which would have KILLED nearly every other person, and you then went through months and YEARS of pain, fear, therapy. near mindlessness yet clearly so far out of your mind that you did not know who you were let alone what to DO with your life - because of THAT, and you moving out, she is now due a free pass?
> 
> Even if she WAS evil and selfish enough to use the worst thing that ever happened in your life against you, how does that account for the OTHER two times she cheated because she just 'couldn't deal' with things?
> 
> You are about the most codependent guy I've ever come across. I hope you get some individual therapy AWAY from her.


Normally I would agree with you on this. However, it is established that she has emotional issues and probably an amount of BPD which would explain her reactions to high stress and rejection/abandonment. In sickness and in health. A condition of reconciliation is therapy.

I'm not as codependent as it seems. I made vows, she is my wife. I told her that if she wants out, then that would be it, as she is not my possession. She opted for NC with OM and MC. I have to see this through.


----------



## turnera

So what are your BOUNDARIES?


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> So what are your BOUNDARIES?


If you mean my boundaries as far as her behavior? Obviously no contact with exes, flirting with other men, and not skipping therapy. She agreed to some countermeasures, so unbeknownst to her, I am still using the VAR, and a GPS tracker. I'm doing this because of the d-day and lies after the first MC appointment.

She just got an iPhone given to her with a thumb scanner, so I can't really know who she is texting. 

All she has to do if she isn't going to work on the marriage with proper boundaries is say she wants a divorce, and proceed with it. She has nothing to gain by lying about MC and continuing with her behavior, other than causing people, namely me and the children, a lot of pain. If she does so that to us, I will have to bring it up if we do divorce as it is unstable behavior, as far as I am concerned.

I'm willing to work on the marriage and become a better man, amd,she a better woman. I'm not going to be weak or get kicked while down, that is for sure. I fully know that a divorce is a possibility.

However, with that said, I know that she is thinking about a future together, because she keeps talking about it. Talking about our pets, our vehicles/future vehicles, vacations, buying property, jobs and our business and/or future businesses.

Time will tell...


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> If you mean my boundaries as far as her behavior? Obviously no contact with exes, flirting with other men, and not skipping therapy. She agreed to some countermeasures, so unbeknownst to her, I am still using the VAR, and a GPS tracker. I'm doing this because of the d-day and lies after the first MC appointment.
> 
> *She just got an iPhone given to her with a thumb scanner, so I can't really know who she is texting. *
> .


WHAT THE HELL?!

Are you fvcking KIDDING ME? :slap:

NObody is that weak.


----------



## turnera

You ARE aware, are you not, that as the MAN of the house, and the one being CHEATED ON, all you have to do is tell her PUT YOUR THUMB ON THAT PHONE AND HAND IT TO ME OR ELSE GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS HOUSE - right?

You DO acknowledge that, right?


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> You ARE aware, are you not, that as the MAN of the house, and the one being CHEATED ON, all you have to do is tell her PUT YOUR THUMB ON THAT PHONE AND HAND IT TO ME OR ELSE GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS HOUSE - right?
> 
> You DO acknowledge that, right?


I could do that. It could also cause more tension in the house which will affect my boys and make certain other people miserable.

I am addressing each issue. I'm just not doing it via blitzkrieg.

We moved past what happened before and created good years. I opened those scars. What happened is like giving a drink to a reformed alcoholic. 

I'm not being weak; not anymore. I'm seeing if this marriage can be saved, or if the end of it can minimize the fallout which will affect my children. I'm avoiding making rash decisions. I'm avoiding controlling behavior (GIMME YOUR PHONE!) There has to be a better way to get the information that I need. 

The marriage lives and can be made great, or the marriage dies, and I move on. I am trying for the best outcome.


----------



## TaDor

Simple... thing about the fingerprint scanner on her new iPhone.

You can use more than one person to unlock the phone with their finger prints. And a second thing, the use of a thumb reader is optional.

So the day your fingers don't work or the password has changed, is the day you know she is screwing you over.


----------



## drifting on

Damaged

I'm wondering if you are seeing the full picture here. Please excuse my post as this is probably going to seem to be harsh.

With the way you are going about this, your marriage is done. File for divorce now and dissolve your company. From your last few posts neither you or your wife have what it takes to reconcile. Reconciliation the way you are moving forward will eat you alive. This is not for the weak, you have to commit fully and wholly for reconciliation to have a chance. Did you read that, a chance. Right now you have as much chance to reconcile as I do in winning a Pulitzer Prize. 

Here are the reasons why you are going to fail, and I mean fail miserably. Your wife got a NEW iPhone, probably in her name only, and the only access is with her thumbprint. Where is the transparency in that? Your own MC told you it would be upwards of a year before you trust her, correct? In order to build trust you need transparency. In other words your wife has zero privacy, AS WELL AS YOU, and that just flew away with the pigeons. Really, a new phone when she has previously broken no contact ALL THE WHILE going to MC. Now factor in her previous other two cheating incidents, she is someone who has repeatedly shown she can't be trusted. Don't give me your song and dance that you moved past the other two cheating incidents, as I know damn well that her recent cheating brought the other two incidents to the forefront of your mind. And they should!! Because she can't be trusted. 

Ask your MC if she believes it is s good idea for your wife to have a new phone, thumbprint needed for access, when she has failed at no contact? Ask her damaged. Hear the truth from your therapist, then remember your wife really likes her. Why? Because I wouldn't put it past your wife to tell the MC that she needs privacy from your "controlling ways". This is nothing but an excuse to keep contact with OM. Get your head out of your ass, you aren't controlling because you don't allow your wife to date other men, it's gas lighting at its finest!!!

Ask your wife why she involved a coworker in her affair. You need to know why, and then you need to tell her that you honestly don't know which choice was more stupid, that she had a third affair or that she involved a coworker not thinking there would consequences. Your wife then has the audacity to be MAD at you for suspending said employee and making her life more difficult!!! You should have suspended your wife at that very moment. Now your wife gets a call to give a reference for said employee, want to go out on a limb with me and guess that she gave an excellent reference? You know she did!!! Where are you a priority to your wife as her and said employee ridicule you? Ask your wife that question. 

Your reconciliation is going to fail because your wife cheated a third time, broke no contact, but rather never stopped contact anyway. You have forgiven two cheating incidents, your wife can't forgive words uttered during an impaired state on narcotics. Read what @turnera wrote in her posts above, it's spot on and then look how your wife chose to deal with it. 

Damaged, your words hurt your wife, I'm not disputing that at all, I'm disputing your behavior on those medications. Ask your wife, did she notice a behavioral change in you while on the medications? Did she think you were acting rationally on the medications? Did she ask the doctor about these changes? when your wife cared for you, did she bring any concerns to you about your future? Did she take any, I mean any, actions towards ending the marriage? On that I mean any actions other then cheating. Did she accept your separation and say you should BOTH begin dating others. I would imagine that if a separation was discussed that, that dating would also have been discussed since you have children together. I suspect that it wasn't discussed, that your wife became overwhelmed far before your separation request, and that she began contact to find an OM if you two didn't work out. 

What really bothers me is the fact that your wife went outside the marriage. That her husband has a traumatic injury and she begins to find an OM to protect herself for the future. All the while you are trying to recover from devastating injuries. Does your wife have any idea how this looks TO YOU? Does this look like a wife who loves her husband? Would she take you back if the roles reversed? Your wife seems like an entitled selfish princess. Would she accept the same actions from you if the roles reversed? Ask her damaged, make this real for her. 

If she doesn't agree to have no passcode or thumbprint on her phone, you won't reconcile, period. Best of luck to you.


----------



## turnera

Here's how you show you are not weak. Walk up to her, and say 'wife, you want to make things right. Here's how. Add my thumbprint to be able to open your phone.' And then just see what happens.

That is not GIMME YOUR PHONE. That is rational behavior of a man who wants to save his marriage and an act that a REMORSEFUL ex-cheater would gladly do for you. If she refuses, she is NOT remorseful, she WILL cheat again, and she is just waiting to find a stronger, better companion.


----------



## dianaelaine59

turnera said:


> WHAT THE HELL?!
> 
> 
> 
> Are you fvcking KIDDING ME? :slap:
> 
> 
> 
> NObody is that weak.




Can I thank this post 100 times?!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## dianaelaine59

I have an Excedrin headache number 44!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> I could do that. It could also cause more tension in the house which will affect my boys and make certain other people miserable.


First, what does No More Mr Nice Guy say about tension?

Second, which other person would be miserable? You? Because...she gets MAD at you for calling her out? So you are willing to remain miserable, afraid, untrusting, waiting for the next shoe to drop as long as SHE is not made uncomfortable?

Her? Because...she is seeing - finally - a CONSEQUENCE for her bad behavior? How else does one CHANGE, DG? We only change when we face consequences. 

Nobody else matters. 

Do you want to improve this marriage or not?


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> First, what does No More Mr Nice Guy say about tension?
> 
> Second, which other person would be miserable? You? Because...she gets MAD at you for calling her out? So you are willing to remain miserable, afraid, untrusting, waiting for the next shoe to drop as long as SHE is not made uncomfortable?
> 
> Her? Because...she is seeing - finally - a CONSEQUENCE for her bad behavior? How else does one CHANGE, DG? We only change when we face consequences.
> 
> Nobody else matters.
> 
> Do you want to improve this marriage or not?


I have had the phone in my hands, unlocked. I'm just not being pushy about it. I'm also trying to follow what the MC is laying out. We aren't supposed to be talking about certain things. D-day obviously screwed it up. Also, there is evidence that besides sexting and kissing, things did not progress to full on PA. I mean, it still could have, but it looks like just maybe it didn't. I have my other investigative things in place. OM's GF is more than likely on top of what OM is doing. OM doesn't have the intelligence to hide an affair. Multiple people in his town know about what happened. My wife was humiliated from the exposure. She will carry that for a long time. My wife said that the entire situation isn't worth the stress alone. 

As I stated earlier, I'm preparing for either outcome to this. If we divorce, I want it to be as pain free as I am able to make it. I care more about my children than anything or anyone else in this world. If we divorce and she runs to OM, she is the one who will ultimately suffer. The guy is older than me, and idiot, and juvenile. She will look back on what she threw away when she realizes that she cannot stand the OM. She even admitted that while thinking back on it, it wouldn't work for those very reason.

If I keep being pre-accident husband with marked improvements, plus IC for both of us and MC, I believe that all truths will be revealed and that she will feel remorse. If not and we divorce, I will be a better man and more of a prize for someone else; someone who doesn't have BPD type issues, where cheating and running away during stress are not a part of her psyche. 

Also, my leg wasn't amputated. I had necrotic muscle removed and skin grafts, plates, pins, and rods. I can have more surgeries down the road. I might even be able to walk normally, some day. I may eventually come away from this with just scars. Time will tell, as the surgeries are not a guaranteed fix.

You see, I plan on coming out on top of this, regardless of what happens.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I can pretty much confirm that nothing happened with the old fling, based on recovered text messages. However, I can't recover OM messages, though based on knowing my wife, and that she told the truth about old fling, and that she sounded the same about OM had had no lying cues that I could detect, it might be that I was able to interfere before it went full PA with that guy. However, I still can't be 100%, and I have tried different programs to recover those messages.


----------



## TaDor

DamagedGuy said:


> I have had the phone in my hands, unlocked. I'm just not being pushy about it. I'm also trying to follow what the MC is laying out. We aren't supposed to be talking about certain things. .


It should ALWAYS be unlocked to you. Considering what happened... You may look at HER phone - ANYTIME - with or without her in the room. My phone is open to my wife. Her's has a fingerprint reader, but its not being used. No need to be "pushy" - just that you will do random checks on her phone - whenever you feel like it - to make YOU feel better or as a matter of fact.

You two should talk as much as possible...


----------



## eric1

A locked phone means she is still cheating. Period.

Get her phone for a night after she disables it and get teenfree or whatever on it


----------



## straightshooter

eric1 said:


> A locked phone means she is still cheating. Period.
> 
> Get her phone for a night after she disables it and get teenfree or whatever on it


Damaged, GOOGLE "signs your wife if cheating" and the locked phone attached to her is NUMBER ONE . You're being played my friend and you're going to wind up with D Day #4


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> I have had the phone in my hands, unlocked. I'm just not being pushy about it.


Great. Just keep randomly holding your hand out and asking for it. At least every 3 to 5 days.


----------



## straightshooter

*


turnera said:



Great. Just keep randomly holding your hand out and asking for it. At least every 3 to 5 days.

Click to expand...

*

Great. Now all she has to do is delete messages and you can randomly ask for the phone every hour and be clueless. if you want to randomly do something productive with a THREE time cheater, randomly hook her up to a polygraph machine.


----------



## Primrose

DamagedGuy said:


> She just got an iPhone given to her with a thumb scanner, so I can't really know who she is texting.


Is that what she told you? I have the iPhone 6+ and yes, it does have a fingerprint scanner, BUT it also has a passcode option to be used simultaneously. I have my fingerprints recognized, but there's also a passcode for my SO and for my children if they want to/need to access my phone. 

Require her to set a passcode as well.


----------



## turnera

He's afraid to. She'll be mad.


----------



## TaDor

He is afraid to. Because he doesn't want to know.

I remember the first time I found my wife's phone locked. It was an innocent action on my part... but I half knew why it was locked and didn't press to have it unlocked. That was 6 weeks before I came here.

"she needs her privacy" = bullcrap.


----------



## Quality

Primrose said:


> Is that what she told you? I have the iPhone 6+ and yes, it does have a fingerprint scanner, BUT it also has a passcode option to be used simultaneously. I have my fingerprints recognized, but there's also a passcode for my SO and for my children if they want to/need to access my phone.
> 
> Require her to set a passcode as well.



When attempting to reconcile with a recent wayward wife, a betrayed husband has to walk to fine line of being helpful with holding her accountable so she doesn't break "no contact" while also not appearing to be this unattractive controlling jerk monitoring everything she does. 

Acting like her dad demanding to see her phone every few minutes also isn't very attractive, but, until you've reached 30 days or so of "no contact", you are still in a very risky period of recovery {one in which I'd say the appearance of parenting her and controlling her are worth it because NOTHING can be accomplished if they resume contact ~ also, although you must continue secretly monitoring for contact ~ catching her isn't the goal of "accountability", achieving "no contact" is the goal, so trying to work with her versus setting her up to fail is the better course of actions, IMO}.

I do consider it very disturbing that she got iPhone and set up a secret security passcode {unless she did this to have a new phone number OM wouldn't know}. The timing is just very indicative of an attempt to maintain private contact with OM {which, if they both have iPhones would probably entail them using an almost untraceable application other than text ~ like snapchat or some other one the kids are using now to get around their parents}. 

Since she lets you have access to the phone to look through it now and then, and because you need the password to "add a fingerprint" to "Touch ID & Passcode" under "Settings" you'll need to insist she give you the passcode, at least one time {she can change it later, I believe} such that you can quietly go to to "settings" / Touch ID & Passcode and add your own fingerprint to list of permitted users. Then, hopefully, if you store the fingerprint well, you'll be able to access the phone secretly thereafter even if she changes the passcode. 

You convince her to give you the code one time because it's really the right thing to do to hold her accountable. There shouldn't be secrets in marriage {my wife and I both have fingerprint access to each others phones as well as knowing the pass codes ~ mostly because it's convenient should I need to use hers or read/reply to a text for her while she's getting ready}. Perhaps the best argument is just being really direct about it ~ she doesn't like you asking her to hand it over to you for inspection due to the reasons above {feels controlling and parenting} so by just giving you the passcode and permitting you to check {or not check} at any point in time with or without her knowledge will actually achieve the desired result for both of you. People tend to behave when they KNOW everything they do is subject to monitoring by a third party, whether the third party checks or not. Fake cameras prevent crime nearly the same amount as real cameras ~ real cameras are just more helpful AFTER any crime takes place. You {and presumably she} don't want her to mess up and, in a moment of weakness or otherwise, decide to contact OM or let OM contact her, where she thinks she can get away with it, hide it and keep it secret. Affairs thrive on secrecy. 

However, even if you are upfront about the reasons and importance of her giving you the passcode, don't tell her you're adding your fingerprint to the thing. Then, you'll hopefully have access even if she changes her mind and later, changes her passcode to something you don't know. 

Fingerprint access can be tricky. My access on my wife's phone wasn't done well. If I don't get my thumb on there just right, after 3 tries it goes back to annoyingly requiring the passcode. When setting a fingerprint, you have to move your thumb around at a few different angles so it will work more easily.


----------



## turnera

Nobody said 'demanding' OR 'every few minutes.' Just to have access. It should be an understanding between them that, to consider staying together, there must be transparency. If you don't even have that, there is no point staying and trying. "Fine. Then leave."



> Perhaps the best argument is just being really direct about it ~ she doesn't like you asking her to hand it over to you for inspection due to the reasons above {feels controlling and parenting} so by just giving you the passcode and permitting you to check {or not check} at any point in time with or without her knowledge will actually achieve the desired result for both of you.


Agreed.


----------



## drifting on

Damaged, you said she was "just given a new iPhone", who gave it to her? If it was anyone but you, put it in your driveway and run it over. Hand it back to her and say, just don't make things like they used too!! My point is, and your MC had better be on board with this, is transparency. My wife has zero privacy after d-day, I wasn't controlling, instead she was trying to earn my trust back after being a liar and a cheat. If your wife gets upset, just tell her to look at her actions, she has now cheated three times, then you can say, OM probably doesn't trust you either, you were after all lying to your husband.

Trust but verify is what you do, transparency is what you do, you don't get a new phone and then lock your spouse out. Especially when you are trying to earn trust. Tell your MC that and see what she says!!


----------



## drifting on

Here it is damaged, in a nutshell this is what you're dealing with. You have a wife with a history of running to other men when difficulties arise. What do you think reconciliation is? So you need to tell your MC what you NEED from your wife in order to offer reconciliation. Transparency, no codes on cell phones, no contact with OM, no contact with supportive friends, this includes suspended employee, for starters. 

Next, you need to know if your wife is in one hundred percent. If she waffles at all you tell MC you will begin to dissolve the company tomorrow, you will seek legal representation, you will cease all contact unless written, you will file due to adultery and list om. 

If she agrees to commit to the marriage then you do the same. You have forgiven her in the past, you can forgive now, and she will need to forgive you. I would think her position is much easier to forgive then yours. I accept and acknowledge your words hurt, but you haven't answered my previous questions so I'm going to take that as I was right. 

It's going to be intense, it's going to be difficult, but you both have to commit now. You need to decide now, because the fact she blames you, broke no contact, found coworkers to support her, probBly gave coworker a good recommendation, is a breeding ground for resentment. All that I just mentioned is valued higher by her, your value is lower, so she needs to commit or run to another OM.


----------



## eric1

Have you tried to recover deleted texts from the new phone?


----------



## drifting on

eric1 said:


> Have you tried to recover deleted texts from the new phone?




My problem with this is, she is supposedly wanting to work on the marriage. She is trying to see if her feelings for damaged come back. She has been to both an IC and MC appointments. She says it wouldn't have probably worked out with OM. But from what damage posts, she is doing everything to make damage file. Damage also said she was "given" a phone. I asked who because it didn't sound like it came from damaged. Can you imagine if this phone was given to Mrs. Damaged from the suspended employee of OM himself? Does damaged have his wife's number if it changed? Did the phone come with apps that delete and can't be found with trying to recover programs like wonder share? Sorry damaged, I would definitely be filing in the morning. Your wife appears to think you will reconcile no matter what. Put your post back up on Facebook and let the chips fall where they may. Your wife doesn't seem like she is thinks you're serious.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Wife told MC that I ensured NC with OM through exposure and the embarrassing FB post (which caused a slight backlash. ) MC was shocked about the FB post and asked if I was trying to get even with my wife. I said no, emotions were running high and I reacted, then felt bad and deleted it.

My wife said she felt like she had no privacy. She accused me of scrubbing her old phone, which I did do. Earlier in the day she had accused me and said that I would find nothing to indicate sex with anyone else. I believe her. I ran multiplease forensics programs on it. She has no idea what I can recover. She was adamant in MC about what happened with OM, and felt like I was focused on proving her guilt and forcing her to file so that I wouldn't be the bad guy. I said that I was doing no such thing.

Wife told MC she loves me, but is unsure of she is still in love with me. MC said that feelibgs are murky due to all the things I said before and after the separation event. She told me that in a state of separation, people have the right to date, and told my wife that because of OM, I needed the honesty to heal, or I would try to fill in the blanks between the facts that I know.

She told us that we have to put all of it in the past, and relearn to trust each other, and asked if we were both committed to working on the marriage. We both said that we were.

She said that we have a lot of history, going back to childhood, and that whatever caused us to be drawn together and fall in love is still there. She said that it can be rekindled, and that we are not that far from healing and saving the marriage as we think. She said it would take time and work, but that she thinks we will make it. 

She said that my wife has to work on her issues and I mine, especially my ptsd and depression. I agree. My wife admitted to her rejection issues.

I'm satisfied that the EA was stopped by my actions before a PA took place. My sister, who spoke with OM''s GF, also thinks that there was no PA.

I'm not making any demands. I will probably check GPS now and then, but that is it, unless there are other clues. A nurse gave the phone to my wife, and I can look at it whenever I ask. I'm not going to create a big brother atmosphere. My actions pushed her away. She needs to see that I can be a better version of my old self, and I need to see her improve and defeat her issues.


----------



## Sparta

Let's just say I'll leave this one up to the other boys and girls because I'll be really cynical and I just don't feel like it right now. so someone else have at it ...


----------



## eric1

Strategically you need to disagree with her vehemently that you do not agree that either of you should have been dating during separation, particularly under the circumstances. Exacerbating that is it wasn't just dating, when you 'got back together' she was still talking to him. The optics on her point are horrible.

Just tell the MC that you view it as cheating, don't be combative about it, just state it as plainly as ordering a burger off of the menu. Then ask him/her how you reconcile that.

Privately I would still be suspicious as **** about that new phone of hers


----------



## straightshooter

DamagedGuy said:


> Wife told MC that I ensured NC with OM through exposure and the embarrassing FB post (which caused a slight backlash. ) MC was shocked about the FB post and asked if I was trying to get even with my wife. I said no, emotions were running high and I reacted, then felt bad and deleted it.
> 
> My wife said she felt like she had no privacy. She accused me of scrubbing her old phone, which I did do. Earlier in the day she had accused me and said that I would find nothing to indicate sex with anyone else. I believe her. I ran multiplease forensics programs on it. She has no idea what I can recover. She was adamant in MC about what happened with OM, and felt like I was focused on proving her guilt and forcing her to file so that I wouldn't be the bad guy. I said that I was doing no such thing.
> 
> Wife told MC she loves me, but is unsure of she is still in love with me. MC said that feelibgs are murky due to all the things I said before and after the separation event. She told me that in a state of separation, people have the right to date, and told my wife that because of OM, I needed the honesty to heal, or I would try to fill in the blanks between the facts that I know.
> 
> She told us that we have to put all of it in the past, and relearn to trust each other, and asked if we were both committed to working on the marriage. We both said that we were.
> 
> She said that we have a lot of history, going back to childhood, and that whatever caused us to be drawn together and fall in love is still there. She said that it can be rekindled, and that we are not that far from healing and saving the marriage as we think. She said it would take time and work, but that she thinks we will make it.
> 
> She said that my wife has to work on her issues and I mine, especially my ptsd and depression. I agree. My wife admitted to her rejection issues.
> 
> I'm satisfied that the EA was stopped by my actions before a PA took place. My sister, who spoke with OM''s GF, also thinks that there was no PA.
> 
> I'm not making any demands. I will probably check GPS now and then, but that is it, unless there are other clues. A nurse gave the phone to my wife, and I can look at it whenever I ask. I'm not going to create a big brother atmosphere. My actions pushed her away. She needs to see that I can be a better version of my old self, and I need to see her improve and defeat her issues.


Another poor clueless guy led into oblivion by some idiot therapist. So she cheats three times, and the direction you get is to just put it behind you, trust her because she says to, and go merrily on your way be a better husband 
And now it appears your blushing bride has herself a phone that you dare not bother to want to know what she is doing with it.

Just curious, when she finds her next boyfriend, I guess you think she will just tell you?????? Of course she will.

The problem here is that this so called committment that this genius therapist is talking about requires NO VERIFICATION OR CONFIRMATION on her part. Just tell the MC that and all is well. If you had a dollar for every serial cheater who sits there lying to a therapist while in an active affair, you would be a rich man.

NO CONTACT
TOTAL TRANSPARENCY 

Those are the first requisites for any reconciliation. Your set up here is just trust what the cheaters says. 
Good luck. You will need it


----------



## drifting on

Posted by damagedguy 
Wife told MC that I ensured NC with OM through exposure and the embarrassing FB post (which caused a slight backlash. ) MC was shocked about the FB post and asked if I was trying to get even with my wife. I said no, emotions were running high and I reacted, then felt bad and deleted it.


Your reply should have been this. I was trying to end an affair my wife is involved in. I thought coming to see you (therapist) would have ended the affair, it didn't. You yourself (therapist) stated that my wife needed to end contact, she didn't. I will not sit here and pay you money when my wife is not going to practice what you state. I will not call you (therapist) and beg and plead with you to talk to my wife about ending her affair. What I did with Facebook was end the affair, period. If I want to get back at my wife I will date other people, but tell her I want to work on the marriage and sit in front of you twice a week and tell you what you want to hear. The affair continued through MC I ended it, what is next?


----------



## drifting on

Posted by damagedguy
My wife said she felt like she had no privacy. She accused me of scrubbing her old phone, which I did do. Earlier in the day she had accused me and said that I would find nothing to indicate sex with anyone else. I believe her. I ran multiplease forensics programs on it. She has no idea what I can recover. She was adamant in MC about what happened with OM, and felt like I was focused on proving her guilt and forcing her to file so that I wouldn't be the bad guy. I said that I was doing no such thing.


Your reply to her should have been this. Poor princess, there is no privacy in marriage, with exception to the bathroom door. Privacy in marriage leads to inappropriate contact, as you have previously done twice. I have forgiven these two incidents, but when you go find another boyfriend these feelings come rushing back to the surface. With that in mind you continued no contact, after no contact was established and MC in place. I cannot trust a word you say, you have an extensive history of cheating. You said you wanted to work on the marriage remember? You sat here in MC saying no contact them promptly contacted OM. WHAT IS THE TRUTH WITH YOU? Yes, in order for me to get the truth I have to verify, I'm sorry you are a liar and cheat. Act like a married woman, tell the truth, and you will find that I am the husband you married. But you won't know any of this while talking to OM.


----------



## drifting on

Posted by damagedguy
Wife told MC she loves me, but is unsure of she is still in love with me. MC said that feelibgs are murky due to all the things I said before and after the separation event. She told me that in a state of separation, people have the right to date, and told my wife that because of OM, I needed the honesty to heal, or I would try to fill in the blanks between the facts that I know.




Wow!! Just wow!! I would call your MC today and tell her that her services are no longer needed. Ask your therapist this, if two people get married, one cheats twice when does the marriage end? Then follow with, if two people are married, reconcile two cheating episodes, and no actions other then words are said about separation, when do you date? Either you are for or against marriage. Tell your therapist that her of all people know what a traumatic injury, depression, PTSD, and pain medications will have you very messed up. You will say and do things you have never done before. Ask her if that is correct? Ask her if your wife honored her vows? Ask her if she should have been dating again? Ask her if your wife should have taken an action to end the marriage by filing for separation or divorce legally? Ask her if finding a new boyfriend was the best answer to her problems? She obviously should not agree with what your wife has done, but if she does, find a new counselor immediately. Read @straightshooters post several times, as that will be you if alternative action isn't taken.


----------



## drifting on

Posted by damagedguy
She told us that we have to put all of it in the past, and relearn to trust each other, and asked if we were both committed to working on the marriage. We both said that we were.




It's a good thing my MC never stated this to me, I'd still be there ridiculing her. The only thing positive your therapist said here is, are you both committed to the marriage. Had this been me, I would have replied with this. Laughter, followed by more laughter, followed by please, stop, I can't take anymore!!! Now the therapist probably would have looked at me like I'm being rude. I would then have to explain my reaction to her comment. But know I would do this from the edge of my seat, anger dripping from every word and seeming like I'm going to jump into her face. It would have been like this. My wife has cheated twice, and your idea of separation and dating is bull****. We are here to put it in the past but first it has to be addressed as cheating. The minute we left the first session she promptly rang OM, trust, what fvcking trust are you seeing? I will not blindly give trust to my wife, that's on her, and you telling me to rug sweep is insulting. I had thought we found a therapist who would have us worki through the issues, but I see I'm wrong. Of course we need to trust, and the first step is owning your shlt. I've owned mine, what has my wife done? What have you done to encourage my wife to work? She rings OM after cheating twice before and after listening to you, you want me to trust? I can't trust you or my wife, you now ask me to put it in the past, I did that twice before and what the fvck happened? What does trust mean to you? Is it, ok, you are here in MC with me wife I trust you now. Or is it working through the issues, being vulnerable and actually working with actions FOLLOWED by words that I will earn your trust? Therapist, you have a lot to learn and I'm not trusting my wife or marriage to you that I need to put this in the past. Is my wife putting my words in the past? Is she going to just start trusting me like I do her? She was accusing me of no privacy, she has gotten a new phone and instantly entered a restriction to me opening it. Where does the bill go to? How do I see who she has called and when? How do I put this in the past? A nurse gave her the phone, how do I know what apps are installed? What apps are hidden? Is transparency needed in your world to earn trust? Do you know how to advise a couple? Because if I'm going to put this in the past much work needs to be done first. And the first thing is to go back to her old phone or a phone I have unlimited and whenever I choose to have access. Did my wife tell you about her and a coworker ridiculing me? Do you think she did this with the nurse to? Put all this in the past? Please tell me oh wise one, exactly how do we do that?


----------



## turnera

Does your MC know that she has cheated THREE times?


----------



## drifting on

Damagedguy I should have posted what @Sparta posted, I'm probably not of very much help to you. I do hope you see your therapist needs a good ass reaming. Your doomed if you follow her path.


----------



## straightshooter

Drifting On, now why would we want to interfere with this special cupcake three time cheater's privacy. We must just be real meanies.

OP

if your brother told you or your best friend told you his wife cheated THREE times and his course of action was going to be to just suck it up and trust her and let he do whatever she wants to what would your reaction be.??? If its what you are doing, I hope for your brothers or friends sake they do not ask you.

This woman has betrayed you in the worst possible way multiple times and you are still playing the pick me game not wanting to upset her. And your therapist should have her license pulled. You are being not only robbed of your dignity but also your money.


----------



## farsidejunky

Don't let the MC define your boundaries for you. Define them yourself, then rigidly enforce them.

Here is the problem: right now, you want the marriage to work more than she does. 

In the midst of a power struggle, sometimes the very best thing you can do is drop the rope.

"If you will not agree to transparency, you will not agree to no contact with your AP, and you are no longer in love with me, I see no reason to further pursue marriage counseling. If that should change, let me know. Otherwise, I will move forward with the expectation of an amicable divorce."

Stop accepting the unacceptable in the name of saving a broken marriage.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Your MC is full of $^*!, and you shoudl have called them out on them...the bottom line is she cheat and there is nothing absolutely nothing for you to forgive her cheating, your MC reeks of Beta Male and that she shoudl expect no privacy until you say so...complete transparency....you serious need to grow a pair. The only thing you own is your behavior and actions but this cheating belongs to your wife and if she is not willing to own it then give her das boot.


----------



## turnera

The thing is, she's giving him JUST ENOUGH to make him feel like he's getting it all. Because, as you said, he wants to stay married more than she does.


----------



## drifting on

turnera said:


> The thing is, she's giving him JUST ENOUGH to make him feel like he's getting it all. Because, as you said, he wants to stay married more than she does.





@turnera and @farsidejunky, I thank God for both of you posting here, I am unsure how both of your posts have come through as calm and intelligent. I of course could not reel myself in as I see damaged about to go from damagedguy to destroyed guy. Many times in MC I had to call my therapist out, credit the posters of TAM on this. Many times I called my therapist my wife's teammate, much to her objection and anger, but my calling her out and saying she was my wife's teammate made her become grounded. I always said my therapist for MC was golden, and that's because after being called out she was perfect and held no grudge. She honestly did her very best, and I'm grateful. Damaged, I hope you can read the advice here without becoming angry, but instead calm and wisely. So far Turnera and Farsidejunky have provided you with stability, I hope you listen.


----------



## drifting on

straightshooter said:


> Drifting On, now why would we want to interfere with this special cupcake three time cheater's privacy. We must just be real meanies.
> 
> OP
> 
> if your brother told you or your best friend told you his wife cheated THREE times and his course of action was going to be to just suck it up and trust her and let he do whatever she wants to what would your reaction be.??? If its what you are doing, I hope for your brothers or friends sake they do not ask you.
> 
> This woman has betrayed you in the worst possible way multiple times and you are still playing the pick me game not wanting to upset her. And your therapist should have her license pulled. You are being not only robbed of your dignity but also your money.




Straightshooter 

You have been dead on in this entire thread, except for the meanies part, I'm thinking we probably look like bullies now. I just couldn't post with any thought after reading damageds post.


----------



## drifting on

Damaged

Why would a nurse give your wife a phone? I'm thinking she is perfectly capable to get her own phone, so why the need for this nurse to give her one? Are you able to see the phone bill? What measures is your wife giving you that no contact is currently still established? What did your MC say about your wife's new phone? Did she even tell your MC she got a new phone? Did MC agree that your wife needs privacy?


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck Damaged guy. I hope you and your wife can heal and save your family. The marriage counselor is at least able to talk to you both and get a better feel for what was going on. That doesn't mean she is infallible. Be wary but fair.

In case I missed it, what is your timeline of events. When was your accident, how long in recovery with this and your wife's caring for you, how long before you told her you wanted to separate and why, how long after that did she start seeing the either man? What were the details of the separation and had you actually basically quit being man and wife?

Do either of you go out drinking without the other or with just same sex friends?


----------



## Chuck71

MyRevelation said:


> ... and it was raining today ... and the baby had a hang nail ... and the dog tracked mud in ... and the refrigerator light didn't come on ... and the cat coughed up a hairball ... etc., etc.
> 
> Jesus dude, MAN UP and take some form of action to help yourself. It continues to amaze me the number of BH's that are paralyzed by fear and just keep kissing the ass that is ****ting on them.
> 
> Actually, that should be the mission statement for MB Plan A.


Not yet caught up but I wanted to answer this......

The courts are known to screw over the guys. 85-90% of the time. If this fear was not there, 

I would have D my XW five years prior. Bullchip domestic abuse, beating the kids, poking your

tally in the kids, stalking.... UNTIL the courts square up the system, this will go on.

This is why younger guys will not marry and by God, I do not blame them.


----------



## Chuck71

10th Engineer Harrison said:


> [TJ]This is actually rather hilarious when I think back on my own interactions with you over the years on MB and loveshack. You certainly never came to my "defense" in this manner back then. Not that it would have mattered.
> 
> Like I had to and MyRev had to, Damaged is going to have to work out for himself what "plan" he's going to follow. Harley hasn't saved a single marriage. If it appears that he has, it's because the couple in question isn't given proper credit for coming up with their own plan.
> 
> -10th Engineer Harrison


Savior complex. If three listen, the megaphone comes out.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> Seriously!? I posted everything that happened. I owned what I did, and addressing it in IC. My wife knows this. She was having an AFFAIR with a man who HAS A GF. She lied about it, and kept it going when she agreed to MC. She could have just said "No, I agree with the separation and want a divorce."
> 
> What part of you is at all okay with her actions?


No......DG..... what you did is free yourself of the pain. You came here and as far as I can

tell, spilled out your soul. Not many can do that. Yes both of you made mistakes in the past, we ALL do.

But I am in consensus with others by saying -she moved on WAY to fast- as in, she had someone(s)

in mind before your decision to separate. DG.... you took back your life.... NEVER feel guilty about that.


----------



## ButtPunch

DamagedGuy said:


> Wife told MC that I ensured NC with OM through exposure and the embarrassing FB post (which caused a slight backlash. ) MC was shocked about the FB post and asked if I was trying to get even with my wife. I said no, emotions were running high and I reacted, then felt bad and deleted it.
> 
> My wife said she felt like she had no privacy. She accused me of scrubbing her old phone, which I did do. Earlier in the day she had accused me and said that I would find nothing to indicate sex with anyone else. I believe her. I ran multiplease forensics programs on it. She has no idea what I can recover. She was adamant in MC about what happened with OM, and felt like I was focused on proving her guilt and forcing her to file so that I wouldn't be the bad guy. I said that I was doing no such thing.
> 
> Wife told MC she loves me, but is unsure of she is still in love with me. MC said that feelibgs are murky due to all the things I said before and after the separation event. She told me that in a state of separation, people have the right to date, and told my wife that because of OM, I needed the honesty to heal, or I would try to fill in the blanks between the facts that I know.
> 
> She told us that we have to put all of it in the past, and relearn to trust each other, and asked if we were both committed to working on the marriage. We both said that we were.
> 
> She said that we have a lot of history, going back to childhood, and that whatever caused us to be drawn together and fall in love is still there. She said that it can be rekindled, and that we are not that far from healing and saving the marriage as we think. She said it would take time and work, but that she thinks we will make it.
> 
> She said that my wife has to work on her issues and I mine, especially my ptsd and depression. I agree. My wife admitted to her rejection issues.
> 
> I'm satisfied that the EA was stopped by my actions before a PA took place. My sister, who spoke with OM''s GF, also thinks that there was no PA.
> 
> I'm not making any demands. I will probably check GPS now and then, but that is it, unless there are other clues. A nurse gave the phone to my wife, and I can look at it whenever I ask. I'm not going to create a big brother atmosphere. My actions pushed her away. She needs to see that I can be a better version of my old self, and I need to see her improve and defeat her issues.


She's still cheating. I have been here long enough to be 99% sure of it.

Your reckless desire to save this marriage will ultimately cause its demise.


----------



## drifting on

Damaged

How are you doing? Is your wife still in no contact? Is she doing what your MC has said to do?


----------



## Chuck71

ButtPunch said:


> She's still cheating. I have been here long enough to be 99% sure of it.
> 
> Your reckless desire to save this marriage will ultimately cause its demise.


Listen to B-Punch. Also.... check out this thread below. Why? This could be you.....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/305850-new-here-but-not-new-infidelity.html

NewPhoenix5


----------



## DamagedGuy

Well hello again. My wife retardedly told her 16 y/o cousin that she did in fact sleep with another man. Cousin told my 16 y/o son. My son, hating my wife for what she has done, told me. Wife admitted to it this morning. 


That makes one confirmed PA, one EA (at least,) and a male friend who she kept secret, with me catching her because she unplugged the camera at our shop.

She also told her cousin that she was faking working on our marriage, waiting until her cousin graduates at the end of the upcoming school year, then she would bail on the marriage.

Well, screw that. I have an appointment with an attorney Friday morning. I'm going for 50/50 joint custody, primary placement with me. I only have to be away from home for a couple of hours a day, and she got a new job with an 80 minute round trip a day, plus 45 hours, and she will be away on some nights for trade shows.

With right of first refusal, I will have our son 75% of the time, plus more overnights than her due to her job. I can provide more parenting time, and the courts don't like to separate siblings. She has no other children, yet I have 2 sons from before our marriage.

I'm going for the house because it has been our son''s home, and my other son''s home for 7 years. I'm going for alimony because she has a higher paying job, my lifestyle will decrease, and I am disabled and have to walk with a limp and a cane, and she cheated, so screw her.

People are slowly finding out about all that she has done and she is looking like a SCUMBAG. Plus, I feel bit justified and vindicated for my snooping efforts, which she used to make me look crazy to certain people. Now they will know the truth.

I feel surprisingly good right now.


----------



## Hope1964

Yay! I hope everything goes the way you want it to. Your kids deserve YOU, not her.

Make sure you have a plan of action for when she comes grovelling back.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Hope1964 said:


> Yay! I hope everything goes the way you want it to. Your kids deserve YOU, not her.
> 
> Make sure you have a plan of action for when she comes grovelling back.


If she comes groveling back like she did after her 2nd indiscretion from 2013, I will tell her to go jump off of a bridge because I refuse to be her back up chump. I will not play the pick me dance with this woman who betrayed me multiple times.

I have determined that she:

1. Sucks.

2. Has the emotional maturity of someone who is 16-24 (she is 38 and her two best friends are 24 & 26, 24 y/o has marital problems.)

3. Has a hollow soul and will never feel fulfilled.

4. Is constantly craving attention from everyone. 

5. Is selfish; utterly.

6. Thinks of her job status, stepmother status, and mom status are status symbols/trophies.

7. That she is in love with the idea of a relationship and motherhood, not the relationship or status of motherhood themselves.

8. Will leave our son in the care of nurses when she can be with him, as she has been doing this already. She is not here on here time off, or stays in her room for hours. I watch him play, play and interact with him, and rock him to sleep while we listen to tunes.

I have extended family support, and she has angered and/or alienated hers. People are turning on her, people who thought she was a perfect, innocent princess. 

I can't stand to talk to her or look at her. My idea of her and our potential has been shattered. All I want to do is verbally destroy her, and it is difficult not to do so.

She is damaged goods. I hope that with our situation and her instability, that I can prevail during custody and divorce proceedings. I gave her the chance to own up to the fact that I felt that she cheated, but she gaslighted me. A divorce would have been amicable. Now it is war.


----------



## drifting on

I hope you contact the nurses employer and discuss with them how she enabled the cheating of the spouse she was caring for. Quite the contrast in care.


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> I hope you contact the nurses employer and discuss with them how she enabled the cheating of the spouse she was caring for. Quite the contrast in care.


They are independent nurses. I had quite the text discussion regarding her part I'm this. The thing is, it was difficult to find these nurses, and we had to gave them in place before our son could be released to our care. She is also the head nurse who does all the scheduling and coordinating. 

She was put in her place, and is definitely worried about the potential ramifications for what she did. At one point I considered a lawsuit, but my son''s needs outweigh my desire to inflict punishment.


----------



## chillymorn69

DamagedGuy said:


> They are independent nurses. I had quite the text discussion regarding her part I'm this. The thing is, it was difficult to find these nurses, and we had to gave them in place before our son could be released to our care. She is also the head nurse who does all the scheduling and coordinating.
> 
> She was put in her place, and is definitely worried about the potential ramifications for what she did. At one point I considered a lawsuit, but my son''s needs outweigh my desire to inflict punishment.


Ask your divorce attorny about possible lawsuit agint the nurse. They should have liability insurance. She has a lisence. File a compliant the the board of nursing .


----------



## Dyokemm

So who was the PA with?

One of her previous EA indiscretions from years ago?

The ex she met during this difficult period you went through?

The scumbag OM she was 'talking to'?

Or some guy you didn't even know about yet?


----------



## Dyokemm

And d*mn it sucks....

But nearly every time the experienced posters here express that they think a WS claiming EA is really in a PA....it eventually comes out that they are right.

Sorry man.

Also....make sure to expose POSOM if he has a W or gf.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I have no idea who it is, and I don't care at this point. However, if I ever do find out and he has a significant other, I Wil drop that bomb for sure.

The way she has been acting since she screwed the guy is out of character from the woman I married. Sure there were the two past indiscretions, but she got into a pool with just her panties on at a mutual friend's birthday party, and was flirty and hands with her man. The different guys(even though she swears that she only screwed one, once, but we all know that they are LIARS) in a short period of time, the outright lies and deceit, attacking my character...she is out of control. 

I will just subsidize on alimony, establish myself as the primary caregiver, and then nail her for child support. 

I told her earlier (after she agreed to discuss terms, recording as we spoke) that she had an out if she admitted the truth back in June. I told her that if she didn't, and I found out later, that I would go nuclear. I told her that she chose this outcome, that I would nail her in the courts, and expose her behavior to our mutual friends. The weird thing is, she knew that I wasn't bluffing. She seems self-destructive.

She agreed to giving me the house, getting our 2nd vehicle and car loan in her name, split our son''s disability 50/50, getting her name off of my accounts, and moving out as soon as she collects a paycheck or two and finding a place. I then said, "Oh yeah, I'm also suin you for alimony."

She said, "Why!? I thought we are being amicable!"

I replied, "We are, about the other stuff. You betrayed me. I'm on disability..."

"Yeah, so?"

"...and my lifestyle will see a decrease due to the divorce."on 

"Well have fun collecting it for 2.5 years."

I say, "Maybe. However, I read that it could be indefinite due to my physical disability."

*silence*

She also said that she would not fight me on right to 1st refusal (smart choice) and if the weather was bad, our son might have to stay the night at my house rather than travel early in the morning. I happily agreed, since in New York, the court counts nights spent at a parent''s house for determining primary caregiver and child support in 50/50 custody situations.

I also said that our son will go to my son''s school. I told her that the courts frown on separating siblings. She was not happy as she wants to move to the next town over.

All in all, I win. Part of me is sad because I wish that she wasn't a serial cheater, but then I remind myself that the happy times were FAKE.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

This irritates me to no end no matter who is cheated on and getting a divorce. Shut your mouth. Why would you EVEN tell her your plans? Are you trying to sabotage yourself? This is how vindictiveness and anger turn into madness. Now, she has a heads up on your actions. I just read a story where, a judge mentioned how everything a district was doing was about racism, bigotry and segregation then PROMPTLY decided in favor of the people she just admonished. What a court frowns on and what they do are two entirely different things. Be quiet, do your thing and keep your mouth shut.


----------



## Dyokemm

DamagedGuy said:


> I have no idea who it is, and I don't care at this point. However, if I ever do find out and he has a significant other, I Wil drop that bomb for sure.
> 
> The way she has been acting since she screwed the guy is out of character from the woman I married. Sure there were the two past indiscretions, but she got into a pool with just her panties on at a mutual friend's birthday party, and was flirty and hands with her man. The different guys(even though she swears that she only screwed one, once, but we all know that they are LIARS) in a short period of time, the outright lies and deceit, attacking my character...she is out of control.
> 
> I will just subsidize on alimony, establish myself as the primary caregiver, and then nail her for child support.
> 
> I told her earlier (after she agreed to discuss terms, recording as we spoke) that she had an out if she admitted the truth back in June. I told her that if she didn't, and I found out later, that I would go nuclear. I told her that she chose this outcome, that I would nail her in the courts, and expose her behavior to our mutual friends. The weird thing is, she knew that I wasn't bluffing. She seems self-destructive.
> 
> She agreed to giving me the house, getting our 2nd vehicle and car loan in her name, split our son''s disability 50/50, getting her name off of my accounts, and moving out as soon as she collects a paycheck or two and finding a place. I then said, "Oh yeah, I'm also suin you for alimony."
> 
> She said, "Why!? I thought we are being amicable!"
> 
> I replied, "We are, about the other stuff. You betrayed me. I'm on disability..."
> 
> "Yeah, so?"
> 
> "...and my lifestyle will see a decrease due to the divorce."on
> 
> "Well have fun collecting it for 2.5 years."
> 
> I say, "Maybe. However, I read that it could be indefinite due to my physical disability."
> 
> *silence*
> 
> She also said that she would not fight me on right to 1st refusal (smart choice) and if the weather was bad, our son might have to stay the night at my house rather than travel early in the morning. I happily agreed, since in New York, the court counts nights spent at a parent''s house for determining primary caregiver and child support in 50/50 custody situations.
> 
> I also said that our son will go to my son''s school. I told her that the courts frown on separating siblings. She was not happy as she wants to move to the next town over.
> 
> All in all, I win. Part of me is sad because I wish that she wasn't a serial cheater, but then I remind myself that the happy times were FAKE.


I'm glad she seems to be agreeing to most of your terms.

I would find out who POS is for sure and make sure he feels some of the pain he has put your family through.....plus his SO deserves to know what a sh*tbag she is M to.

My bet would be its the ex you mentioned meeting before she took up with the local dumba** EA turd.

Always thought one meet up....then he suddenly disappears again.....sounded suspicious that POS met up, got his sex, and then told her he wasn't going to leave his W.....

So your WW was forced to go looking again and got caught up with EA turd until you caught her....and that would have been going to PA soon too if you hadn't busted it up.

If it is sh*tbag ex she recently met.....wreck that f*cker's world by telling his BW.


----------



## Chuck71

DG............ no male should ever think they will get a fair shake in D court. Do some.... yes they do.

Never expect it..... go in hoping for the best but prepare for the worst. Never underestimate your 

opponent. 

Don't beat yourself up.... you wanted to believe her. We knew.... but we were not invested either.

Chalk it up as a learning experience and work on yourself. Spend time with kiddos.

And definitely, refine your picker.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I have her recorded twice that I can have the house. New York is a one party state. However, she was aware of and agreed to the second recording where she agrees to my terms.

My appoit mentions with the attorney is tomorrow, and I don't believe that she has one hired yet, based on lack of money yet and time. I will have a separation agreement drafted ASAP with the agreed upon terms.

The only thing that I did that maybe I shouldn't have is mention alimony. However, I don't think that doing so will hurt my case because I am disabled and her new job gives her a large salary. I'm going to have two surgeries that Wil hopefully correct my knee and drop foot issues, though my back is probably permanently messed up.

She doesn't really want full-time motherly responsibilities and she doesn't like this house. She would look like a terrible person by trying to legally for her disabled husband and his kids from the house that she doesn't even want. She is agreeing to 50/50 custody and not challenging the right to 1st refusal because she would lose, she would lose the tests the courts would administer, she would look bad, and she knows that our son will be well under my care.

I have established red-flag rules for myself when I am ready to date again in order to hopefully avoid women like her. 

I woke up feeling sad, hurt, and regretful. However, I remembered that she screwed someone right off, lied and gaslight ed me about it, lied to everyone else including our MC, made me feel crazy and dirty for investigating her lies, and made people think that I was crazy and that she was innocent. Screw her. Now the word is spreading and her reputation is getting annihilated.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

DamagedGuy said:


> I have her recorded twice that I can have the house. New York is a one party state. However, she was aware of and agreed to the second recording where she agrees to my terms.
> 
> My appoit mentions with the attorney is tomorrow, and I don't believe that she has one hired yet, based on lack of money yet and time. I will have a separation agreement drafted ASAP with the agreed upon terms.
> 
> The only thing that I did that maybe I shouldn't have is mention alimony. However, I don't think that doing so will hurt my case because I am disabled and her new job gives her a large salary. I'm going to have two surgeries that Wil hopefully correct my knee and drop foot issues, though my back is probably permanently messed up.
> 
> She doesn't really want full-time motherly responsibilities and she doesn't like this house. She would look like a terrible person by trying to legally for her disabled husband and his kids from the house that she doesn't even want. She is agreeing to 50/50 custody and not challenging the right to 1st refusal because she would lose, she would lose the tests the courts would administer, she would look bad, and she knows that our son will be well under my care.
> 
> I have established red-flag rules for myself when I am ready to date again in order to hopefully avoid women like her.
> 
> I woke up feeling sad, hurt, and regretful. However, I remembered that she screwed someone right off, lied and gaslight ed me about it, lied to everyone else including our MC, made me feel crazy and dirty for investigating her lies, and made people think that I was crazy and that she was innocent. Screw her. Now the word is spreading and her reputation is getting annihilated.


I live in a one party state, her agreeing doesn't mean crap in court. People are allowed to change their minds until, a document is signed and filed with the court. Her reputation being annihilated doesn't mean anything either. I've watched courts give kids back to abusers and then act stupid when the child ends up dead. No, not TV, I worked with a grandfather who had this happen. Yes, we live in different states, but those tests are guidelines, they are not legally obligated to follow them the way you think. You are disabled, if you make her mad enough it is EXACTLY what she may attack. My buddy's ex DEFIED a court order, left with the child and the judge said "Oh well, the next court date is in August." 6 months away from his kid until he hired a lawyer and scared the crap out of his ex. 

Good luck, make sure you relay all of this to your lawyer.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I'm telling the lawyer everything tomorrow morning. I texted her that I'm getting a separation agreement drawn up listing what we agreed upon. She agreed to this. So as long as it is signed and notarized, it is a contract. I have a lot of experience with drawing up my own contracts and having them upheld in court.

I will get advice about the alimony from the attorney, because if she understands that she isn't getting out of it, and that if she fights it, the divorce will be protracted and I will sue her for lawyer and court fees, she will probably relent. If she relents, we won't even have to go to court, since there is a free uncontested divorce program in my area. W could be divorced in 3 months.

She can't use my disability against me. I can demonstrate that I have cared for our child, can pick him up and safely carry him, can drive, and in fact, even though the nurse is driving, I am taking him to his appointmen right now. 

I will always have more time for him than her. Trust me, she cares about her image, and she will no make herself look any worse than she already does. She is leaving the marital home, and our son's only home he has ever known. I also have extensive experience with the local family court because of my other sons. She knows this. She asked me to help her fill out the custody paperwork for her 16 y/o cousin who ironically and hilariously revealed the affair and alienated her whole family. 

I enjoy chess. I got this.


----------



## Dyokemm

DamagedGuy said:


> I have her recorded twice that I can have the house. New York is a one party state. However, she was aware of and agreed to the second recording where she agrees to my terms.
> 
> My appoit mentions with the attorney is tomorrow, and I don't believe that she has one hired yet, based on lack of money yet and time. I will have a separation agreement drafted ASAP with the agreed upon terms.
> 
> The only thing that I did that maybe I shouldn't have is mention alimony. However, I don't think that doing so will hurt my case because I am disabled and her new job gives her a large salary. I'm going to have two surgeries that Wil hopefully correct my knee and drop foot issues, though my back is probably permanently messed up.
> 
> She doesn't really want full-time motherly responsibilities and she doesn't like this house. She would look like a terrible person by trying to legally for her disabled husband and his kids from the house that she doesn't even want. She is agreeing to 50/50 custody and not challenging the right to 1st refusal because she would lose, she would lose the tests the courts would administer, she would look bad, and she knows that our son will be well under my care.
> 
> I have established red-flag rules for myself when I am ready to date again in order to hopefully avoid women like her.
> 
> I woke up feeling sad, hurt, and regretful. However, I remembered that she screwed someone right off, lied and gaslight ed me about it, lied to everyone else including our MC, made me feel crazy and dirty for investigating her lies, and made people think that I was crazy and that she was innocent. Screw her. Now the word is spreading and her reputation is getting annihilated.


So you know it was someone 'right off' during separation?

Well wasn't her married ex the first guy she contacted based on your previous posts?

Confirm it is him....then wreck the scumbag by exposing to his BW after you have everything signed and turned into the court with your STBXWW.


----------



## drifting on

chillymorn69 said:


> Ask your divorce attorny about possible lawsuit agint the nurse. They should have liability insurance. She has a lisence. File a compliant the the board of nursing .





This is exactly the route to take, however, even though she is the scheduling nurse there is much action you can take. First see your attorney, have your attorney send the head of the company a letter outlining what this nurse did. Then have your attorney state, any change in the healthcare of my clients family member will be met with legal action. If you determine to cease providing healthcare to said clients family member, a lawsuit for abandonment will be filed and aggressively pursued to the fullest extent of the law. Any further contact with the nurse who provided my wife a cell phone will be considered harassment. Said nurse is to have zero interest in the care of said clients family member. Furthermore, a complaint will be filed with the states licensing review board for misconduct. We are seeking the removal of said nurses license. If you do not wish to be subject to a lawsuit, which my client has grounds for, said nurse will be removed from the care of said client and his family.

For the review board have your attorney send them a letter stating the misconduct, the cause her misconduct created, and the repercussions of you and your family. Do not be tolerable in this, this person has no business being in the medical profession. They're job was to provide healthcare to an individual that fit they're scope of services. They are not to be providing phones in which one spouse is locked out of the device. Big mistake on this nurses part, and she deserves all the consequences that come with it. Perhaps your wife can pay the nurse alimony too!!


----------



## DamagedGuy

The nurse who gave her the phone didn't know about any of the issues. My wife needed a phone and she had a spare.

It was a different nurse, who was also my nurse when I came home from the nursing facility, who suggested to my wife to file for separation and file for visitation of my stepson, and other things. She is the head nurse who coordinates the other nurses. She is scared that I may seek vengeance.

My wife said, and I know that they can barely be believed, that she did not sleep with the married ex. She said that after crying herself to sleep for two weeks after I initiated the separation l, she decided that she wasn't going to sit and cry and pine for someone who she felt didn't want her. She said she went out and had some drinks and slept with someone I know but am not friends with because she needed to feel that someone found her attractive and to be wanted. 

She said that she felt horrible and guilty after the act and told him it was a mistake. However, that doesn't explain the OM she was going to the movies with and kissed (and swears she didn't screw.)

She said that when I gave her the out to admit to any sex with anyone and that while it hurt me, I won't hold it against her because I broke her heart and made her feel worthless, that she couldn't fac.e me and admit to it.

Prior to this conversation, we had a huge fight. Since she wouldn't tel me who she had sex with, I sent her chat transcript to her ex''s wife. It appears that that act caused ex''s marriage to breakdown. Ex''s sister started to trash my wife on facebook, calling her a home wrecker.

I had posted on my wall that my life was starting over as a single father and that I wouldn't air dirty laundry when asked why, but that people would have to ask me in private, and I told a small handful that my wife had in fact slept with someone, lied about it, and wasn't working with me and our MC on the marriage. She is now a pariah.

During the argument, I became angry and broke down that I had forgiven her twice in the past and we worked through it, but when I had my accident and had survivor''s guilt, felt like less of a man, wanted to die, and had 200mcg of fentanyl and 15mg of oxycodone for 24/7 for months and I separated, I am unforgivable, that she slept with someone 2 weeks in, and that I came back to her 2 weeks after that once I got myself off of the pain meds and became myself again, only to be lied to while she started hanging out with another man and lied to our MC, only for me to find out that she did in fact sleep with someone and planned on pretending in MC until next June. That yeah, I decided to go nuclear.

She then began to weep, and I mean weep. "None of this was supposed to happen! I'm not infallible and I made mistakes and I feel horrible!" I began to cry because if the separation I instigated never happened, none of this would have. We were doing good after we worked through the past betrayal. But I broke this woman, my wife, and it began a cycle of bad choices on both sides. 

I do not feel good about starting this, how she handled it, that she is now very mixed up over the fact I hurt her and that she feels guilty and dirty, and that I ultimately reacted with devastating vengeance. Many here would applaud the vengeance. However, she is the mother of our child and he will have to grow up in an area where people will look at him and think, 'You'really mother is a worthless wh0re.'

I am guilty in this and we both made huge mistakes. I separated and said things that cut her to the core, and she thought that I had no love for her and was neber comjng back. I spoke with the attorney, and no matter what, the divorce will be painful, bitter, and costly for both of us.

I told her about the meeting over the phone on her lunch break. I said that our options were to go through a bitter divorce which will cause more anger, pain, and resentment, or that we can recognize that we both screwed up bad, and that it would be hard, but if she is transparent, then perhaps we could revisit working on things with checks and balances in place.

She was crying, and asking why I was fighting so hard for her. I told her about the good things about her and us and that my accident put us on a trial by fire. She said that if we tried option 2, that we need a clean slate and that she would truly try this time, but that she needs to have some time and a couple more IC session because her emotion are all over. She admitted that she at times wanted to come to my room and lay next to me, but that she resisted, and that she doesn't know that she can get past what she has done to me.

I had also told her that I also accept it if she chooses divorce. I told her that a decision must be made, because I will not live like this. Option A is fine, and option B will be very difficult, but if we can do it, then we will be stronger and close by starting over.

I'm not holding my breath and I do believe that barring some miraculous epiphany on her part, that we will commenced divorce proceedings in early September. I'm going to follow the attorney''s advice and document every last thing we own with photos, and gather as much info on our financials in order to be ready. 

Call me crazy, and I can't explain why, especially with how I dealt with past relationships, but I still love this woman. The 1st betrayals are on her, but she remained faithful after we worked throughdidnt If I didn't separate from her and cut her down, she would not have gone off of the deep end with her behavior.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> She then began to weep, and I mean weep. "None of this was supposed to happen! I'm not infallible and I made mistakes and I feel horrible!" I began to cry because if the separation I instigated never happened, none of this would have. We were doing good after we worked through the past betrayal. But I broke this woman, my wife, and it began a cycle of bad choices on both sides.


Dude cut it out. Like you asked I won't call you crazy. You're not crazy your codependent. -- This is also something you should read. Your wife cheated on you twice and you forgave her then she couldn't even last 2 weeks. She cheated on you before you got married, after you got married and now after after you broke up, 2 WEEKS! Stop it, just stop it. Stop letting your heart get in the way of the truth. Did you sleep with someone in those 2 weeks? Your wife has a very tenuous connection to you at best, what about her kids did she think of them? If I read this right she likes to project that she is some moral angle. She is just a plan old phony. I don't doubt that there is more cheating or at least untowardly behavior you don't even know about. 

She doesn't seem to have loyalty at all to anyone but herself. Why aren't you fighting for her?!! You ended it and she flew into the arms of another guy and the only reason it took 2 weeks it seems is because no guy could be found faster. Now she wants you to fight for her? Why didn't she fight for you? Man has this women have some nerve. She had already cheated on you twice at that point. She didn't even fight for you before you got married. I am so tried of these triflingly lose women who pray on men who don't see them for what they are, and the nonsense that do but instead treat them like they are some princess. Enough, you were better 5 posts ago when you were hardcore. That is all she deserves. She is not meant to be married to anyone. Let her go hang out at parties with the other vapid people. 

You seem surprised you say she knew you were not bluffing and she still lied. Dude she cheated on you twice and you stayed with her, OF COURSE she believes you are going to back down. She is not self destructive she just assumed you will get over it like the last time. Are you? Because you are sounding like you are from this post right here. What are you going to say when she does it a 4th time? The 5th time will be different? Seems all it takes is some tears. 

Move on there is better out there. She is the mother of your children so if you want to just have a equitable settlement then do that. Eventually if she changes as a person you can tell your friends you forgive her and they should too. Her reputation is ruined because people know who she really is now not because of anything you did. You just stopped protecting her. If it wasn't that bad as she has been trying to convince you then no one would think badly or her right? It IS bad, she has treated you terribly. Tell her reputation just finally caught up with the reality. Frankly it's about time there is some consequences, this is where you both went wrong in the first place, she needs some pain to motivate her to change. If you even think of getting back with this broken women it will be more of the same. She isn't capable of being what you want it's not in her nature.

2 WEEKS!


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> Call me crazy, and I can't explain why, especially with how I dealt with past relationships, *but I still love this woman.* The 1st betrayals are on her, but she remained faithful after we worked throughdidnt If I didn't separate from her and cut her down, she would not have gone off of the deep end with her behavior.


You love who she WAS, not who she IS

BIG difference....


----------



## manfromlamancha

For you to be considering R with her she has to really want to R. If she really wants to R, then she should come clean about everything including who she slept with, and without you asking. I understand that she is confused but you should tell her that in order to R, she has to really want to R and do everything that comes with wanting to R such being completely honest.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

For someone who tried to use the chess analogy to explain how good he is at legalities, you just fell for the simplest gambit.


----------



## Lostinthought61

You have better odds waiting for publishing clearing house knocking at your door and handing you a check and balloons than you do having your wife come home and being the woman she once was....the door shut a long time ago...and your too naive to see it. And btw after all you did to expose her, many are going to second guess you not her if you take her back....they will see you as the bad guy not her. You have to be the worse card player in the world.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Also, as you have described, this is manipulation 101 on your part. You threatened her with less money, alimony, recorded her, exposed her and generally made passive aggressive threats. I wouldn't want anyone back under these circumstances. If I have to make it stressful to win you back, I lost.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I am still processing emotions. As I said, the divorce is pretty much a certainty. I have seen people come back from worse. However, she obviously has issues that she has refused to get help for and change.

I am trying to figure out the best way to proceed since she said that she would still have intimacy issues if we worked on us, which p*sses me off since they weren't there in the past, I am smart, funny, and good looking, sex between us was always great, and she screwed someone 2 weeks after the separation.

It is hard moving forward because of my stupid feelings, but I know that I must. I don't want a long, painful divorce, and I want the house and alimony.

About her being who she is now versus who she was: she stated that her own behavior since the separation concerns her and she is talking about it in IC, and that she doesn't know who she is anymore in addition to not feeling emotionally stable.


----------



## DamagedGuy

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Also, as you have described, this is manipulation 101 on your part. You threatened her with less money, alimony, recorded her, exposed her and generally made passive aggressive threats. I wouldn't want anyone back under these circumstances. If I have to make it stressful to win you back, I lost.


Want do you expect me to do? She was lying since May. I wasn't manipulating her at all. When I found out she slept with someone and lied to me and out MC about it, and planned on stringing me along for the better part of a year while torturing me, you bet your *ss I exposed her, and want alimony.

I fought for this woman, and for our marriage. I made personal changes to live better with or without her, and went to great lengths to make up for separating for a month and hurting her. Separating from her is no excuse for her behavior, and it is no excuse to cause me massive amounts of pain through her mental/emotional abuse. 

I got my head clear and wanted to end the separation a month after the fact. I slept with no one, and she did, and then started at least EA with someone else, while in MC, and lied consistently. Maybe you think I should have grabbed my ankles while standing on eggshells, but I refuse to do that. I was patient and understanding, and her behavior blew up in her face. I am not responsible for her actions, she is.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> I am still processing emotions. As I said, the divorce is pretty much a certainty. I have seen people come back from worse. However, she obviously has issues that she has refused to get help for and change.
> 
> I am trying to figure out the best way to proceed since she said that she would still have intimacy issues if we worked on us, which p*sses me off since they weren't there in the past, I am smart, funny, and good looking, sex between us was always great, and she screwed someone 2 weeks after the separation.
> 
> It is hard moving forward because of my stupid feelings, but I know that I must. I don't want a long, painful divorce, and I want the house and alimony.
> 
> About her being who she is now versus who she was: she stated that her own behavior since the separation concerns her and she is talking about it in IC, and that she doesn't know who she is anymore in addition to not feeling emotionally stable.


Saying something about it and doing something about it are two different things.

Of course she admits things now... she was caught. By all means, file for a D.

You can still date, even after the D. After the D, you have better standing when you want

out. If you do not D her, she will "bang you back" and after 6-9 months, she will be sneaking 

with someone else. Protect yourself, don't leave yourself exposed. 

Oh... keep in mind the example she is setting for the kids. And the one you would set if you took

her back.


----------



## nekonamida

DG, one of the most concerning parts of your post is that she planned on getting a divorce soon enough. How can you trust that she won't just say whatever you want to hear now and file later when she's ready? She could hide money, drop down to part time, or even quit her job by then to play dirty and get out of paying you more. At this point a divorce would protect you from that.


----------



## DamagedGuy

nekonamida said:


> DG, one of the most concerning parts of your post is that she planned on getting a divorce soon enough. How can you trust that she won't just say whatever you want to hear now and file later when she's ready? She could hide money, drop down to part time, or even quit her job by then to play dirty and get out of paying you more. At this point a divorce would protect you from that.


I have certainly thought that she might be delaying, though she was ready to have me file. She has been saying since May, and continues to say, that she is torn between divorce and reconciliation, and that the anxiety of it is overwhelming.

When she was wailing, she cried out that she wants to fall in love with me again, but doesn't know how, and then she began to cry even harder.

The next day she said that she has been keeping her heart closed because she cannot take being hurt and rejected, by me or anyone else. That was before asking me to give her until the end if the month. I know that she wishes what has happened can be undone, but she doesn't think we can come back from what we both did.

She won't go part time, because she can't, and this new job is her dream job that she hopes to retire from. 

She is not your typical WW. She has deep issues with rejection and self-esteem that she should have received help for, years ago. What she did is a symptom of these issues and no one but me is here to see the despair on her face and the pain, anger, and regret in her voice. 

Maybe I haven't been completely honest here. When I separated, I was disconnected and detached, and was desperately seeking change from my condition and situation, and thought that both she and I would be better off if I left and found someone else. I didn't seek anyone, and got my head clear a month after I left, not realizing just how much pain I had caused her. What she did is utterly wrong, but so was what I did.


----------



## Tobyboy

She didn't seem to have any issues when she stripped down to her panties only for a romp with her lover in the pool did she? What's the count of OM now....Four? Five?


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> I have certainly thought that she might be delaying, though she was ready to have me file. She has been saying since May, and continues to say, that she is torn between divorce and reconciliation, and that the anxiety of it is overwhelming.
> 
> When she was wailing, she cried out that she wants to fall in love with me again, but doesn't know how, and then she began to cry even harder.
> 
> *The next day she said that she has been keeping her heart closed* because she cannot take being hurt and rejected, by me or anyone else. That was before asking me to give her until the end if the month. I know that she wishes what has happened can be undone, but she doesn't think we can come back from what we both did.
> 
> She won't go part time, because she can't, and this new job is her dream job that she hopes to retire from.
> 
> *She is not your typical WW. She has deep issues with rejection and self-esteem* that she should have received help for, years ago. What she did is a symptom of these issues and no one but me is here to see the despair on her face and the pain, anger, and regret in her voice.
> 
> Maybe I haven't been completely honest here. When I separated, I was disconnected and detached, and was desperately seeking change from my condition and situation, and thought that both she and I would be better off if I left and found someone else. I didn't seek anyone, and got my head clear a month after I left, not realizing *just how much pain I had caused her.* What she did is utterly wrong, but so was what I did.


And you suited up in your Mr. Fixer outfit and tried to "save" her.

And you're about to do it again. Before you do it again......

How have things worked out as Mr. Fixer so far?


----------



## DamagedGuy

Tobyboy said:


> She didn't seem to have any issues when she stripped down to her panties only for a romp with her lover in the pool did she? What's the count of OM now....Four? Five?


She wasn't in the pool with anyone. I was there, standing outside of the pool. The act was out of character and part of her off the deep end behavior since the separation.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have certainly thought that she might be delaying, though she was ready to have me file. She has been saying since May, and continues to say, that she is torn between divorce and reconciliation, and that the anxiety of it is overwhelming.
> 
> When she was wailing, she cried out that she wants to fall in love with me again, but doesn't know how, and then she began to cry even harder.
> 
> *The next day she said that she has been keeping her heart closed* because she cannot take being hurt and rejected, by me or anyone else. That was before asking me to give her until the end if the month. I know that she wishes what has happened can be undone, but she doesn't think we can come back from what we both did.
> 
> She won't go part time, because she can't, and this new job is her dream job that she hopes to retire from.
> 
> *She is not your typical WW. She has deep issues with rejection and self-esteem* that she should have received help for, years ago. What she did is a symptom of these issues and no one but me is here to see the despair on her face and the pain, anger, and regret in her voice.
> 
> Maybe I haven't been completely honest here. When I separated, I was disconnected and detached, and was desperately seeking change from my condition and situation, and thought that both she and I would be better off if I left and found someone else. I didn't seek anyone, and got my head clear a month after I left, not realizing *just how much pain I had caused her.* What she did is utterly wrong, but so was what I did.
> 
> 
> 
> And you suited up in your Mr. Fixer outfit and tried to "save" her.
> 
> And you're about to do it again. Before you do it again......
> 
> How have things worked out as Mr. Fixer so far?
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to fix her, at all. All I am doing is recognizing symptoms and issues. We have a son together, and when we most likely divorce, I want her to get help for herself for the sake of our son.

No matter how much everyone wants to beat me down, I will walk away from this marriage knowing that I exhausted all options, and did my very best to do the right things, especially since everyone is forgetting that I started this and crushed her.

I am also a bad ender when children are involved, and when I can't make my love stop being there. It sucks, for certain.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> She is not your typical WW. She has deep issues with rejection and self-esteem that she should have received help for, years ago. What she did is a symptom of these issues and no one but me is here to see the despair on her face and the pain, anger, and regret in her voice.


Which is why she needs to be ALONE and SINGLE to work these things out. It will be a good testing ground. Even if she continues IC, if she won't go without picking up another guy if you separate for a year, then you'l know she's not really concerned with fixing herself.


----------



## Chuck71

turnera said:


> Which is why she needs to be ALONE and SINGLE to work these things out. It will be a good testing ground. Even if she continues IC, if she won't go without picking up another guy if you separate for a year, then you'l know she's not really concerned with fixing herself.


QFT

Say it.... ok. Now prove it.


----------



## Quality

Congrats on breaking down the wall of denial. Without the absolute truth on the table you were never really ever in a position to save your marriage and family in the first place. NOW ~ you actually MIGHT be. You might not be. Time will tell; but, your inclination to slow down and see where this goes isn't hurting anything or anyone. You have the rest of your life to be divorced ~ no need to rush it. 

Ask her to take the lead in recovery this time ~ if SHE wants it, she should go about doing some of the initial work and learning to get recovery going. Send her to MB and have her ask pennylane what to do. That would be interesting.

Talk to your lawyer and then tell her, if SHE wants, you might put the divorce process on hold for a little bit but would like her to sign a post-nuptial agreement spelling out the divorce/custody terms you've already negotiated out this month just so you'll be assured she isn't playing a bait and switch game on you and is seriously willing to put her money where her mouth {and tears} are. The indications she gave of playing you for a year {which was just meaningless wayward idle talk that I really don't take seriously ~ waywards don't think past one week let alone scheme a divorce for a year} is a good tool for you to use to insist she give you additional and extreme assurances, in writing, before you'll move forward even considering her plan.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Quality said:


> Congrats on breaking down the wall of denial. Without the absolute truth on the table you were never really ever in a position to save your marriage and family in the first place. NOW ~ you actually MIGHT be. You might not be. Time will tell; but, your inclination to slow down and see where this goes isn't hurting anything or anyone. You have the rest of your life to be divorced ~ no need to rush it.
> 
> Ask her to take the lead in recovery this time ~ if SHE wants it, she should go about doing some of the initial work and learning to get recovery going. Send her to MB and have her ask pennylane what to do. That would be interesting.
> 
> Talk to your lawyer and then tell her, if SHE wants, you might put the divorce process on hold for a little bit but would like her to sign a post-nuptial agreement spelling out the divorce/custody terms you've already negotiated out this month just so you'll be assured she isn't playing a bait and switch game on you and is seriously willing to put her money where her mouth {and tears} are. The indications she gave of playing you for a year {which was just meaningless wayward idle talk that I really don't take seriously ~ waywards don't think past one week let alone scheme a divorce for a year} is a good tool for you to use to insist she give you additional and extreme assurances, in writing, before you'll move forward even considering her plan.


Thank you. This is all relatively reasonable. 

We were talking a little bit ago. She is resisting woking on the relationship because:

1.) She doesn't have answers as to why she finds it easy to talk to other men when stress is high.

2.) She is afraid to open her heart because she doesn't trust me or anyone else. She is afraid that I will break her heart again.

I told her that I am not fighting for the marriage just to leave her again. She keeps saying "but you did." She cannot see that I was not myself and enslaved to opiates.

I'm weary of it, and if she said "Nope, let's divorce," I would do it. If she doesn't commit to actually doing the work required to save us, relatively soon, then I am proceeding with the hehe divorce.


----------



## Geek_Reborn

DG, I feel for you and I can relate to alot of what you post and feel. My ex-wife had self-esteem and trust issues as well. She would promise me anything I wanted and act like she was acting on those promises.....for a while....After that, it was back to the ole usual. This cycle continued for most of our relationship, pre and post wedding. 

Do I still love her? Yes, I do. I will always love her. 
Will I help her if she asks? Yes, I will. I'll do alot for her to help her get back on her feet if she needed it.
Will I ever get back with her? Hell no!! Not a chance. 

She is the mother of my son and I want my son to have his mother around. I want her to be at her best for him as well. But will I ever subject myself to her manipulation, lies and continual trail of bread crumbs? Nope.. Not a chance..

Unless you are willing to break the cycle...this will continue until she gets her way, finds her way or finds another guy to get her what she wants. Her continuing indecision should tell you something. If she says over and over, "I don't know"..then she can't commit to you or anything. If she says something to a 16 year old about cheating on you and told you otherwise..Then she cannot commit to you. If she cannot be straight with you in MC, then she cannot be straight with you period. 

You may have all the best intentions and desires...But it does not hold true for her. 

Divorce is the best option, IMHO. No one is saying you can't still be friends for a while and try to rekindle something IF you both feel you can..But for now, this relationship is broken and cannot be fixed on its own. Both parties need to be 110% on board..and she is not!!


----------



## DamagedGuy

Geek_Reborn said:


> DG, I feel for you and I can relate to alot of what you post and feel. My ex-wife had self-esteem and trust issues as well. She would promise me anything I wanted and act like she was acting on those promises.....for a while....After that, it was back to the ole usual. This cycle continued for most of our relationship, pre and post wedding.
> 
> Do I still love her? Yes, I do. I will always love her.
> Will I help her if she asks? Yes, I will. I'll do alot for her to help her get back on her feet if she needed it.
> Will I ever get back with her? Hell no!! Not a chance.
> 
> She is the mother of my son and I want my son to have his mother around. I want her to be at her best for him as well. But will I ever subject myself to her manipulation, lies and continual trail of bread crumbs? Nope.. Not a chance..
> 
> Unless you are willing to break the cycle...this will continue until she gets her way, finds her way or finds another guy to get her what she wants. Her continuing indecision should tell you something. If she says over and over, "I don't know"..then she can't commit to you or anything. If she says something to a 16 year old about cheating on you and told you otherwise..Then she cannot commit to you. If she cannot be straight with you in MC, then she cannot be straight with you period.
> 
> You may have all the best intentions and desires...But it does not hold true for her.
> 
> Divorce is the best option, IMHO. No one is saying you can't still be friends for a while and try to rekindle something IF you both feel you can..But for now, this relationship is broken and cannot be fixed on its own. Both parties need to be 110% on board..and she is not!!


I agree. She avoids talking about things and working on things, and get annoyed when I try to talk about things. I do not constantly try to talk, but our MC had told us to talk about how we feel. 

She is saying that she doesn't feel that she loves me, yet goes hot and cold on whether to divorce or work in the marriage. She said that sometimes she feels like coming to my room on some nights, but resists and she hasn't done it. Once in a while she refers to herself as my wife, or call me babe, which she had stopped doing in May. She even started to say "I love you" yesterday, but caught herself and excused it away.

Breadcrumbs. 

It's almost as though she wants to get her own place, have our son part time, work her new job, avoid serious relationships, and go play. I think that the delay tactic may be so that she gets a couple of paychecks so that she can hire her own attorney. Not that it will matter, I am getting what I want. She reiterated today that she hates the house. I do too; we were going to finish remodeling and sell it, but I can turn it into a duplex and rent it out at some point. She cannot hope for better than 50/50 custody, and there is no way she is getting out of paying spousal maintenance. This will be temporary as I work on my own things that will make money.

I know that I will be alone for a little while, but not forever. It is tragic, for if my plans come to fruition, I will end up making more money than her, have a better lifestyle for me and the boys, and will be in a better relationship at some point. She will realize what she gave up, and it will be too late. 

I will not be friends with her if she doesn't commit to working on us. I will need to move on, and thus cannot associate with her other than on issues regarding our son. She will not benefit from my friendship; our talks, the laughs, all of it will end.

It doesn't have to come to this, but it probably will.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> Want do you expect me to do? She was lying since May. I wasn't manipulating her at all. When I found out she slept with someone and lied to me and out MC about it, and planned on stringing me along for the better part of a year while torturing me, you bet your *ss I exposed her, and want alimony.
> 
> I fought for this woman, and for our marriage. I made personal changes to live better with or without her, and went to great lengths to make up for separating for a month and hurting her. Separating from her is no excuse for her behavior, and it is no excuse to cause me massive amounts of pain through her mental/emotional abuse.
> 
> I got my head clear and wanted to end the separation a month after the fact. I slept with no one, and she did, and then started at least EA with someone else, while in MC, and lied consistently. Maybe you think I should have grabbed my ankles while standing on eggshells, but I refuse to do that. I was patient and understanding, and her behavior blew up in her face. I am not responsible for her actions, she is.


She sounds like a great choice to invest the rest of your life into. /sarcasm Please stop it. If you are as handsome as you say you will have a lot of choices. Pay attention to what she does and who she is with. She looks to men to give her self esteem. There will be other men unfortunately. Read the books I posted.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> She wasn't in the pool with anyone. I was there, standing outside of the pool. The act was out of character and part of her off the deep end behavior since the separation.


No it wasn't. She cheated on you twice. 




> She is not your typical WW. She has deep issues with rejection and self-esteem that she should have received help for, years ago. What she did is a symptom of these issues and no one but me is here to see the despair on her face and the pain, anger, and regret in her voice.


Read some other posts there all like this. She is the most typical.

You are not dealing in reality here.


----------



## honcho

"She is saying that she doesn't feel that she loves me"

This is really all you need to hear from her and the reason you should divorce. In very general terms once a woman falls out of love they don't fall back in love. Both of you have a great deal to figure out about yourselves individually without the added pressure of trying to save a marriage on top of it.


----------



## DamagedGuy

After reviewing posts, talking to my sister, and doing some serious inner reflection, I'm no longer going to remain blind. She is 38, and she is simply not going to change, and she is going to continue to breadcrumb, delay, and be wishy-washy and fickle.

Women have showed some interest when they found out that I'm probably going to be single. I'm not saying I'm going to hook up, though I'm saying that I am desirable to other women, so dating after all of this will be a breeze.

Plus, the community knows what she has done, and yhey know that I have done all that I could. I can leave on a moral high note, get the house, and alimony.

She is not going to be my problem. I'm going to have my attorney draft a post-nuptial agreement, which she indicated she would sign. I will then follow his advice and photograph all of our assets, down to the pens and pencils, and have her served with divorce papers.

It is actually important to me that I initiate the divorce. A's ahead has said, she is the one who always leaves her relationships. I did my best to save us, but I'm making the choice to leave her to her own devices, and start my life over at 40 years old, looking like I'm 30. 

Screw it, I'm done. She will hem and haw and try to make me feel bad so she can delay. In fact, I told her yesterday that after finding out that she had sex with another man, I felt like going out and screwing someone, but that that would be imature and I would feel hollow. After I said that, she said "Well if we try to work things out, then we need to do it with a clean slate, and really work on it this time."

BULSH*T. Breadcrumbs! And she doesn't want me to leave and be with someone else until she decides! NO. I can't do it anymore, and I'm done looking like a chump. I have support from the community, and maybe I wont if I forgive her. There are women out yet who are better for me. She even said as much. Well, she is right on that one.

I will be filing as soon as I am able.


----------



## farsidejunky

Words are meaningless without action to back them up.

Not willing to open up? Not willing to work on things? Your reconciliation is over before it has even begun when the wayward is unsure.

And DG, make no mistake...she IS a typical wayward. Most of them have a hole in their ego that can never allow it to be filled. Rejection enlarges the size of the hole. If she manages to reel you back in, the hole shrinks, but never goes away.

This is why she needs time in therapy, and even then it is a crapshoot.

Do not let the KISA take over.


----------



## GusPolinski

Gotta say... pretty typical wayward stuff for an atypical wayward.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> After reviewing posts, talking to my sister, and doing some serious inner reflection, I'm no longer going to remain blind. She is 38, and she is simply not going to change, and she is going to continue to breadcrumb, delay, and be wishy-washy and fickle.
> 
> Women have showed some interest when they found out that I'm probably going to be single. I'm not saying I'm going to hook up, though I'm saying that I am desirable to other women, so dating after all of this will be a breeze.
> 
> Plus, the community knows what she has done, and yhey know that I have done all that I could. I can leave on a moral high note, get the house, and alimony.
> 
> She is not going to be my problem. I'm going to have my attorney draft a post-nuptial agreement, which she indicated she would sign. I will then follow his advice and photograph all of our assets, down to the pens and pencils, and have her served with divorce papers.
> 
> It is actually important to me that I initiate the divorce. A's ahead has said, she is the one who always leaves her relationships. I did my best to save us, but I'm making the choice to leave her to her own devices, and start my life over at 40 years old, looking like I'm 30.
> 
> Screw it, I'm done. She will hem and haw and try to make me feel bad so she can delay. In fact, I told her yesterday that after finding out that she had sex with another man, I felt like going out and screwing someone, but that that would be imature and I would feel hollow. After I said that, she said "Well if we try to work things out, then we need to do it with a clean slate, and really work on it this time."
> 
> BULSH*T. Breadcrumbs! And she doesn't want me to leave and be with someone else until she decides! NO. I can't do it anymore, and I'm done looking like a chump. I have support from the community, and maybe I wont if I forgive her. There are women out yet who are better for me. She even said as much. Well, she is right on that one.
> 
> I will be filing as soon as I am able.


This sounds good but I think you should read one of the books I linked to. Use it to decide if you are codependent. I think you seem to be because of the fact that you put up with this nonsense for so long. You seem to be trying to save her all this time. The thing is if you are you are going to attract the wrong type of women. They can smell a codependent man a mile away. The are like parasites they use men as hosts so they can go off and cheat and have a good time while these men bankroll their lifestyle. If you don't fix whatever it is in you that needs to white knight these types of women you will just be back on here with another women like that. Read the books see if it makes sense and if it does get some IC. 

If you do stick to this plan then you did take the first step, but get ready once she realizes you are really done mark my words then she will really start pouring it on. You are going to need to be strong to stick to your guns.


----------



## Chuck71

All she wants to do is make sure she has another vine to swing to (another man).

Very typical WW behavior. The ONLY reason she is waffling is to not be left ALONE.

She does not love you in a "healthy way" but does not want to see you with another woman.

She will string you along as much as you allow her to. D her..... and as I have said for awhile, 

allow her time to work on herself (IF). If she loves you 10% of what she claims, she would

move mountains for you. At the moment... she wouldn't move a ketchup packet. 

Protect yourself, work on yourself, and maybe...... maybe she works on herself.

Get on with your life and maybe 3-4 years down the road she can come to you in a much

more mature way. But don't expect it. You may find someone who has her "schit" together and 

will make her a distant memory. From your posts, that would not be too difficult.

If you decide to return to her..... I will quote an old TAM legend..... Conrad. Three words.....

Wash
Rinse
Repeat


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> All she wants to do is make sure she has another vine to swing to (another man).
> 
> Very typical WW behavior. The ONLY reason she is waffling is to not be left ALONE.
> 
> She does not love you in a "healthy way" but does not want to see you with another woman.
> 
> She will string you along as much as you allow her to. D her..... and as I have said for awhile,
> 
> allow her time to work on herself (IF). If she loves you 10% of what she claims, she would
> 
> move mountains for you. At the moment... she wouldn't move a ketchup packet.
> 
> Protect yourself, work on yourself, and maybe...... maybe she works on herself.
> 
> Get on with your life and maybe 3-4 years down the road she can come to you in a much
> 
> more mature way. But don't expect it. You may find someone who has her "schit" together and
> 
> will make her a distant memory. From your posts, that would not be too difficult.
> 
> If you decide to return to her..... I will quote an old TAM legend..... Conrad. Three words.....
> 
> Wash
> Rinse
> Repeat


It is really hitting me that she is no good for me or anyone else. I wish that I could have truly seen it a long time ago. I think that I always knew, but I just kept holding on. Things were really good for a while. I was always happy to see her after work. I always enjoyed her company, our talks, making love, and just being with her. 

However, she isn't loyal. She is disrespectful. Her emotions change on a whim. I have to fight too much to keep her, and I deserve to be with a woman who is the exact opposite of who my wife is.

It hurts, but I know that divorce is the ONLY option. It sucks. I realize that the marriage was plastic; fake.


----------



## DamagedGuy

We just had the talk. I told her that her recent behavior brought her past indiscretions on table. I said that she has lied so much, that I can never trust her again, and that I would always wonder if she still kept secrets; never fully disclosed. I said that in addition to the lies, sleeping with someone, and having contact with another man after that, she was stringing me along and planned to until next June. I said that I cannot have a wife with questionable morals, or lacking in morals, or one that can so easily lie to me, or put me through all of this. 

I said that I realized that it is not worth fighting for someone like that, or fighting for someone who claims to have been in love with me, yet have the love stop like a switch has been flipped. I said that I question whether she actually ever loved me at all. That ticked her off.

She is now going to find an attorney. I will file the paperwork.


----------



## Dyokemm

DamagedGuy said:


> We just had the talk. I told her that her recent behavior brought her past indiscretions on table. I said that she has lied so much, that I can never trust her again, and that I would always wonder if she still kept secrets; never fully disclosed. I said that in addition to the lies, sleeping with someone, and having contact with another man after that, she was stringing me along and planned to until next June. I said that I cannot have a wife with questionable morals, or lacking in morals, or one that can so easily lie to me, or put me through all of this.
> 
> I said that I realized that it is not worth fighting for someone like that, or fighting for someone who claims to have been in love with me, yet have the love stop like a switch has been flipped. I said that I question whether she actually ever loved me at all. That ticked her off.
> 
> She is now going to find an attorney. I will file the paperwork.


Her anger is really not because you pointed these things out to her.....it is because she truly has no way to logically dispute ANY of what you said.

Anyone can see the total logic and rational thought in what you expressed to her.....and she knows it.

That's why no denials....they are obviously pointless in the face of all those incontrovertible facts.

Hence her angry outburst.....

And ironic huh?

She went from calmly saying she would accept your proposal, while moping and going back and forth about whether or not to try R.......

To belligerently running off to lawyer up now that you told her in no uncertain terms you are done.....

Looks to me like she was still hoping she could guilt you and string you along to next year as you discovered she was planning to do.

Pure manipulator.....and typical for a serial cheater.

In all honesty......you MAY NOT know the true extent of what she has been up to over the years or, especially, over the past few months.

Get out of there ASAP!


----------



## JustTheFacts

What happened to your business ? Are you back to work since she has a new job somewhere else now?


----------



## DamagedGuy

Dyokemm said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We just had the talk. I told her that her recent behavior brought her past indiscretions on table. I said that she has lied so much, that I can never trust her again, and that I would always wonder if she still kept secrets; never fully disclosed. I said that in addition to the lies, sleeping with someone, and having contact with another man after that, she was stringing me along and planned to until next June. I said that I cannot have a wife with questionable morals, or lacking in morals, or one that can so easily lie to me, or put me through all of this.
> 
> I said that I realized that it is not worth fighting for someone like that, or fighting for someone who claims to have been in love with me, yet have the love stop like a switch has been flipped. I said that I question whether she actually ever loved me at all. That ticked her off.
> 
> She is now going to find an attorney. I will file the paperwork.
> 
> 
> 
> Her anger is really not because you pointed these things out to her.....it is because she truly has no way to logically dispute ANY of what you said.
> 
> Anyone can see the total logic and rational thought in what you expressed to her.....and she knows it.
> 
> That's why no denials....they are obviously pointless in the face of all those incontrovertible facts.
> 
> Hence her angry outburst.....
> 
> And ironic huh?
> 
> She went from calmly saying she would accept your proposal, while moping and going back and forth about whether or not to try R.......
> 
> To belligerently running off to lawyer up now that you told her in no uncertain terms you are done.....
> 
> Looks to me like she was still hoping she could guilt you and string you along to next year as you discovered she was planning to do.
> 
> Pure manipulator.....and typical for a serial cheater.
> 
> In all honesty......you MAY NOT know the true extent of what she has been up to over the years or, especially, over the past few months.
> 
> Get out of there ASAP!
Click to expand...

It is like my sister said; I know who she really is now. There have been other issues that I was blind to over the years, like how she was able to form wedges between me and some of my family.

Plus, she could be really b*tchy, often randomly. She is a hollow person.


----------



## DamagedGuy

JustTheFacts said:


> What happened to your business ? Are you back to work since she has a new job somewhere else now?


I go in to open, so that I don't have to pay my employees to do it. I'm handling the book work and inventory ordering. All of the employees opted to stay. My new manager (an employee who I promoted and gave a raise to) complained to me today about both my wife and the manager who betrayed me. 

They would sit on their a**es and play cards. My wife told me that they had no time to plan specials or sales, or to do anything else to drum up sales. Basically, my wife stopped giving a crap after my accident.

She also said that my wife would tear me up and down to the employees. Obviously, that backfired. No one has quit since I came back. Plus they know that she is a cheat. 

Business is really slow. I'm imagining customers coming in and instead of being greeted by my smiling wife and manager from behind the counter, they saw my bored wife paying my bored scumbag manager playing cards. We used to constantly update the businessential page, and put out an a-frame sign with sales and specials.

I think that my wife wanted to see me fail. The employees were not fully trained like she said that they were, and she was 1.5 months behind on the book keeping.

I'm probably going to sell the business and focus on writing. However, if I can get things turned around, it would be sweet revenge to build it back up to a profitable enterprise. I just don't know if I want to deal with it.


----------



## SunCMars

DamagedGuy said:


> It is like my sister said; I know who she really is now. There have been other issues that I was blind to over the years, like how she was able to form wedges between me and some of my family.
> 
> Plus, she could be really b*tchy, often randomly. *She is a hollow person. *


She had an hourglass figure.
Her chest so full, her waist a whisp.

Her hips had that curve that artists find so appealing.

She gave off an aura, her red lips always apart....and a-pout.

As she aged she got lighter. Yes she did.

The hourglass had a crack, right were her legs came together.

And as the years passed the sand sprinkled out.

And at the end...she was hollow...and she did not Ring True when the truth be told. When you tapped her heart, it did not thump.
No, it clinked.

SCM


----------



## Handy

*DamagedGuy
I had a motorcycle accident, and sepsis that almost killed me a month later. During this time I was racked with guilt over becoming disabled and that my wife had to take care of everything. Out business, our kids, everything. I was extremely depressed and told her she deserved someone else. *

I just wanted to comment on the feelings (depressed... she deserved better) you had after your accident. I had similar feelings after a serious injury (second time). I was worried there wouldn't be enough income and we would have to sell everything and live in a dump. At times I though my W wouldn't put up with me and my problems at the time. Some of my feelings came from hearing other women talk about what they wanted or had to have. I thought maybe my W would look for another man if I didn't earn xxxx dollars. I placed way too much importance and emotions on what I earned. At the time I was what I did for a living and what I earned or what money would by my family. Working a job where the paycheck is based on commission / sales /business owner drives home the idea that being successful money wise is a man's main goal.

It took 20 years to see that I am more than what work I do and how much I earn. I also learned it isn't what you earn that makes a person successful, it is how you spend the money and time that determines success.

I don't have any comments on the rest of the thread's content. You and others have that part covered.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Part if her is still holding on, even after yesterday. She sent me a text that she was going to open her own checking account to deposit her paycheck, but that she knows the shop is slow and that we have bills to pay.

I responded that the shop, us, and everything is messed up. Part of me wants her to realize the gravity of the situation. She replied that she is lost and unsure of what to do, that she is hollow and broken and doesn't want to fight anymore and that she feels like she isn't good enough.

She is at work, so it's text, but she finally started opening up, whereas she avoided talking about it as much as possible before I dropped the D decision yesterday. 

She wishes that I didn't separate, though she feels guilt over what she has done. She thought I was never coming back, and she acted out because she felt worthless. 

She feared admitting to things and opening her heart back up because of fear and guilt, yet that she also feared the pain of the divorce, since working on the marriage with fear and guilt and divorcing and failing were both scary and filled with uncertainty.

I told her that before, I had been willing to work with her in therapy on us. She said that I think that she will keep cheating. I said that yes, I think that each time has been a response to stressors, but that I had been willing to work with her in therapy to learn the truth, the why, and to see if she could get help and if could have rebuilt the marriage and proof it against either of us hurting the other.

As it stands, I'm still filing. I am hoping to get more answers since she is opening up. However, I think that she is too damaged for any hope for her to change. I think that she needs more than the MC/IC to get to the bottom of her behavior.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> It is really hitting me that she is no good for me or anyone else. I wish that I could have truly seen it a long time ago. I think that I always knew, but I just kept holding on. Things were really good for a while. I was always happy to see her after work. I always enjoyed her company, our talks, making love, and just being with her.
> 
> However, she isn't loyal. She is disrespectful. Her emotions change on a whim. I have to fight too much to keep her, and I deserve to be with a woman who is the exact opposite of who my wife is.
> 
> It hurts, but I know that divorce is the ONLY option. It sucks. I realize that the marriage was plastic; fake.


Now is the time to grieve. I have heard people suggest grief counseling, and I think it is actually a good idea as this is very much life a death. However what you don't realize is you have been operating under a delusion that this is the best a relationship could be. You are going to be surprised if you get the right women. You will wonder why you wasted so much time. However I think you should consider IC so you don't pick the same kind of women. There is a reason why you put up with the cheating on you twice and almost a third time. A reason why she was able to almost manipulate you back. Work on that or you will attract the same type of woman. 

Morn today but have hope for tomorrow.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> Part if her is still holding on, even after yesterday. She sent me a text that she was going to open her own checking account to deposit her paycheck, but that she knows the shop is slow and that we have bills to pay.
> 
> I responded that the shop, us, and everything is messed up. Part of me wants her to realize the gravity of the situation. She replied that she is lost and unsure of what to do, that she is hollow and broken and doesn't want to fight anymore and that she feels like she isn't good enough.
> 
> She is at work, so it's text, but she finally started opening up, whereas she avoided talking about it as much as possible before I dropped the D decision yesterday.
> 
> She wishes that I didn't separate, though she feels guilt over what she has done. She thought I was never coming back, and she acted out because she felt worthless.
> 
> She feared admitting to things and opening her heart back up because of fear and guilt, yet that she also feared the pain of the divorce, since working on the marriage with fear and guilt and divorcing and failing were both scary and filled with uncertainty.
> 
> I told her that before, I had been willing to work with her in therapy on us. She said that I think that she will keep cheating. I said that yes, I think that each time has been a response to stressors, but that I had been willing to work with her in therapy to learn the truth, the why, and to see if she could get help and if could have rebuilt the marriage and proof it against either of us hurting the other.
> 
> As it stands, I'm still filing. I am hoping to get more answers since she is opening up. However, I think that she is too damaged for any hope for her to change. I think that she needs more than the MC/IC to get to the bottom of her behavior.


You're hedging. Dude do you want me to buy you the book. Give me your address I will send it to you if you read it. Seriously, she sat around and bad mouthed you to your own employees and played cards while you could have been dying.



> She said that I think that she will keep cheating.


Your response should have been. "It doesn't matter anymore you cheated on me 3 times. Did you think I would always stay with you no matter how you treated me? Haven't I have done enough for you, I have fulfilled my end of the deal yet you have consistently failed. I'm done. Good luck."

Stop romanticizing this women and trust your sister and about 10 strangers on the board who can tell she is full of ****. Trust us, move on there is much better life out there for you.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I hear you, I really do. I'm calling another attorney in the morning to get more opinions on my legal standing. This woman is a serial cheater, and will always make me fight for the relationship, and make me play the pick me dance.

I don't know why I love her like I do. I hate myself for it. I have walked away from previous relationships because of similar behavior. But my wife... there is something about her. She is chubby and complains but does nothing about it, wants to be perceived as a good mother but has little to do with our son, has baggage, and self-esteem issues...

Gods, maybe I do have white knight syndrome. I cannot fathom, other than the fact we have a child, that I am putting up with her. Why!? I am attractive, smart, and educated, and defied death, TWICE. There are MANY women who would find me to be a suitable mate who would never put me through any of this! Why am I having such a hard time leaving this badly aging, damaged serial cheater who doesn't respect or love me!? Why am I doing this to myself? 

I need to stop talking to her. I am curious as to what she has to say after IC tomorrow, but it will probably be manipulation. The counselor is certainly easily manipulated. But I need to file, and watch more of her true colors come out while I free myself.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I have to look back on the posts to see the title of the book again. I have just been all over the place not able to sleep or eat right lately.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> I hear you, I really do. I'm calling another attorney in the morning to get more opinions on my legal standing. This woman is a serial cheater, and will always make me fight for the relationship, and make me play the pick me dance.
> 
> I don't know why I love her like I do. I hate myself for it. I have walked away from previous relationships because of similar behavior. But my wife... there is something about her. She is chubby and complains but does nothing about it, wants to be perceived as a good mother but has little to do with our son, has baggage, and self-esteem issues...
> 
> Gods, maybe I do have white knight syndrome. I cannot fathom, other than the fact we have a child, that I am putting up with her. Why!? I am attractive, smart, and educated, and defied death, TWICE. There are MANY women who would find me to be a suitable mate who would never put me through any of this! Why am I having such a hard time leaving this badly aging, damaged serial cheater who doesn't respect or love me!? Why am I doing this to myself?
> 
> I need to stop talking to her. I am curious as to what she has to say after IC tomorrow, but it will probably be manipulation. The counselor is certainly easily manipulated. But I need to file, and watch more of her true colors come out while I free myself.


You are codependent! That is what I have been trying to tell you. Your relationship is not and has probably never been healthy. You need to get some IC or you are going to go into the next relationship with same issues and may end up in the same place. Who you meet is a crap-shoot, but when you are not codependent you are be able to identify the ones you meet that are not a healthy choice. You probably don't have that skill and may even be attracted to those qualities as you seem to think you need to white knight to be deserving of love. Lots of guys do this. It's a lie. You should help people because you want to not because you think it makes you more attractive. This quality of doing something as a trade off for getting things often becomes a problem in a marital relationship, for many reasons one of them is your white knighting people can take away time and effort form people who should be your primary relationship, your wife and kids. Another is you can marry people who take advantage of you, as you seem to have. 

You should really make this your mission, not trying to R with your broken wife. Fix yourself and you won't want to waste time R with your wife. 

Also get ready for your wife to do a 180 when she finds out you are for real this time. (If you really are for real). It's doesn't mean she won't do the same thing again as she already has 3 times. Remember you got the best of her, and that was still cheating 3 times.

Your mission if you choose to accept it is to fix you right now, not the marriage. If it helps you then put the marriage on hold. The truth is if you fix yourself you won't want this broken relationship anyway. You will see that part of what is keeping you stuck is your issues not healthy love.


----------



## Taxman

DG
Do yourself the best favor, divorce her, make sure that it is understood that she will get nothing from you as she attempted to destroy your life and business. Move on and find a good woman. When you do, make sure your ex gets a good long look. I have seen the brain explosion when a wife spent years tearing down her exhusband, only to see him happily married and fulfilled in his next relationship while she is still with the AP. Yeah, you really want to be with a guy who had you cheat on your husband. Great moral character there.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I'm divorcing her for certain. I have an appointment with another attorney on Monday, and I will choose one and file. I'm making preparations. I have to photograph everything and document it.

And, my wife changed her mind on the house, which is fine, because I'm getting personal injury money, alimony from her whether she likes it or not, and she will haven to pay me my equity in the house, and I will sue her for relief for my attorney and court fees. We are also splitting our son''s disability, and this year''s tax return.

I will force the sale of all of our marital property. She will have to find a place to rent if the house is sold, but I will have the resources to simply buy another one. I'm looking now, just in case.

She will walk in shame, because people know what she has done. I haven't been perfect, though I did what I could do to make things right. 

I will get counseling for my apparent white knight issues. I am going to get my social life back, since it has been practically nonexistent for half of this marriage. I'm going to put myself out there to try new things. I was invited to participate in poetry reading sessions, and I do write, so I will try that. I will date, but tell my dates that I'm not looking for anything serious at this time, and weed them out based on red flags.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> It is really hitting me that she is no good for me or anyone else. I wish that I could have truly seen it a long time ago. I think that I always knew, but I just kept holding on. Things were really good for a while. I was always happy to see her after work. I always enjoyed her company, our talks, making love, and just being with her.
> 
> However, she isn't loyal. She is disrespectful. Her emotions change on a whim. I have to fight too much to keep her, and I deserve to be with a woman who is the exact opposite of who my wife is.
> 
> It hurts, but I know that divorce is the ONLY option. It sucks. I realize that the marriage was plastic; fake.


If you have to "fight" to keep her, AT ALL, walk the hell away. You saw her at her best, you NEVER will

again, move along, nothing more to see. Just erratic behavior 
and constant train wrecks.

I used to speed home just to be with my XW back in our first five years together. The magic we had...

But that was 15-20 years ago. We had many "gotcha" moments as the years went on but....

they were less and less. Today... she is not even a shell of who she was. Maybe, maybe.... 5% of

what I saw at one time. She has wanted me to save her, dating back to a month before the D.

She traveled 500 miles away to shack up with a guy on disability who claimed he was a pilot but

ended up it was a head set on a go-cart (no lie). Again... she wants me to save her, JUST like you WW

wants you..... to save her. You had in the past, and the results were.........???????

It's a cycle. Thing is, DG, you already know this. But you're letting your heart get into your head.

This is why I, and others, have said, D her.... give her room, space, and time to grow, heal, and

unearth her demons. Only then... after 4-5 years of great leaps forward.... should you even contemplate 

anything with her. Me and many others would be willing to wager a large chump of change saying

it will not take her long at all, to find a new love after she realizes you are moving on.

Now it will not last long..... you will know this by her re-appearing after 6-8 months again,

wanting you to save her. Hence she never tried working on herself. She wants to be saved and.... in truth,

the only person that can save her, is HERSELF.

Go to search..... and type Tomas into the engine. Your thread is very similar to his.

DG.... you know the truth.... but you're still not "ready" for it fully.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I talked to her to find out how IC went. She said that the counselor told her that divorce or reconciliation is an important choice that didn't need to be made right now, and that if I can't handle that, then I need to make the decision. Since I disagree with waiting and already decided to file, I steered the conversation in that direction.

My wife said she doesn't think we each can get past what happened. She began to get angry, yelling at me, and slamming stuff on the table. 

I agreed with her, because she refuses to talk about what happened or work together on any of it, preferring to sit on the fence and keep us in limbo.

So I still have feelings of guilt and all that because I separated while dealing with my meds, depression, and pain. However, I then remind myself that:

- She has a history of betrayal.
- She has proven, more than once, that she is willing to betray me with other man who are already taken.
- She didn't officially end things and slept with a mystery man a couple of weeks into the situation, claims to regret it, but saw another man afterwards, who has a GF.
- She easily lied to me multiple times, and to our MC. Can't rebuild trust with a liar.
- Flirted with and got handsy with a married man in front of me and his wife.
- Gaslighting.
- Kept in contact with exes. Spent time with one behind my back.
- Is emotionally immature.
- Blame shifting.
- Tells everyone who will listen how much she misses our son because of work, but then hangs out in her room or goes out on her time off.
- Raised her voice at me only a couple of times over the years, but now does it when we discuss mariage/reconciliation/mistakes/divorce.
- Is a hypocrite because she judges those who cheat.

I told her that I'm not leaving the house anytime soon. This is so that I can establish myself as our son''s primary caregiver being that I am home with him more, and wait for my personal injury money. Also, so that I can begin to work with an attorney about alimony and my equity in the home and other property.

Plus I need my finances in order so that I can buy a house. The one we have needs some work, and has a couple unfinished rooms. She will have to buy out my equity, plus alimony.

I separated, but I didn't make her go off and commit a series of immoral and evil actions. I'm going to disengage from her unless we talk about our son, or the divorce.


----------



## DamagedGuy

She did come groveling back now that she knows I am serious about filing. She told me it was her first husband who she slept with, after I vowed not to retaliate. I can't be an oath breaker and it is killing me.


----------



## Dyokemm

Is this the first you are hearing about her being in contact with her first H.....or is the the 'old fling' she admitted meeting that you mentioned in your original post?

If it's a new revelation, then you have to face the fact she still has info she is hiding about what she has been up to.

If it is the 'old fling', then she has been lying A LOT to you since this all began since she told you nothing happened there.

Not good either way.


----------



## turnera

Try to look at it all from 50,000 feet above. What really matters in your life?


----------



## DamagedGuy

Dyokemm said:


> Is this the first you are hearing about her being in contact with her first H.....or is the the 'old fling' she admitted meeting that you mentioned in your original post?
> 
> If it's a new revelation, then you have to face the fact she still has info she is hiding about what she has been up to.
> 
> If it is the 'old fling', then she has been lying A LOT to you since this all began since she told you nothing happened there.
> 
> Not good either way.


She maintains that she did not sleep with the fling, that they just talked, and that,she blocked him from social media and her phone. I still nuked his marriage.

She said she then called to apologize to her ex-h because what I did to her, she did to him. He invited her over to talk, and after drinks, one thinged to another. She maintains that it was during the separation and that she thought I didn't want her, love her, or was ever coming back. Ex-husband is remarried, and wife was out of town. I want to tell her, but I vowed not to retaliate, or my wife wouldn't reveal the truth. 

She maintains that she only kissed the o.m. after that she didn't know what to do since I had hurt her with her worst fear, and I had been so different for months on the opiates and in pain that it was hard to forgive me and that she was afraid. 

She maintains that after I demand no contact with o.m. and we do MC or I divorce, there has been no one else, except for the man who was divorced and she was just asking him about it all from his experience to get perspective.

She said that until I decided to divorce, she was siting one the fence unsure as to what to do. 

Now she is backtracking and saying that she loves me and cares about me deeply and regrets causing me pain, that she doesn't understand how I could love her at all, and that she is damaged goods and no good for relationship's and marriage, that I should be free to be happy and find someone who won't hurt me like she has, and that she doesn't know if her problems can be fixed, but that she wants to work on fixing her issues. She suggested a separation instead of divorce.

I feel that a separtion would be a waste of time and we might as well divorce.


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> Try to look at it all from 50,000 feet above. What really matters in your life?


I don't know anymore. Seeing my kids grow up. I can't see much more past any of this gloomy dark.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> She did come groveling back now that she knows I am serious about filing. She told me it was her first husband who she slept with, after I vowed not to retaliate. I can't be an oath breaker and it is killing me.


So he is married too right? She is a real winner.


----------



## sokillme

> Now she is backtracking and saying that she loves me and cares about me deeply and regrets causing me pain, that she doesn't understand how I could love her at all, and that she is damaged goods and no good for relationship's and marriage, that I should be free to be happy and find someone who won't hurt me like she has.


You should have cut her off right there and said yep.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> I want to tell her, but I vowed not to retaliate, or my wife wouldn't reveal the truth.


What truth? Don't do it for retaliation do it because it is the right thing to do. Your wife is morally compromised, notice she doesn't seem to feel guilt for this. Guess she doesn't care about his wife. So she dumped him and then years later she participates in braking up his new marriage. She is truly awful and this is the women you are pining away for?


----------



## Lostinthought61

DamagedGuy said:


> I don't know anymore. Seeing my kids grow up. I can't see much more past any of this gloomy dark.


That is because she is the dark gloomy Mass front of you....once you remove her from your day yo day being things we clearer.... there may still be hard days but you will no longer have to brought down by her deceitful behavior....don't you think you deserve that.


----------



## turnera

DamagedGuy said:


> I don't know anymore. Seeing my kids grow up. I can't see much more past any of this gloomy dark.


Ok, so if your kids growing up happy is your #1 goal, figure out how that happens. And then mentally backtrack how to make it happen.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

sokillme said:


> What truth? Don't do it for retaliation do it because it is the right thing to do. Your wife is morally compromised, notice she doesn't seem to feel guilt for this. Guess she doesn't care about his wife. So she dumped him and then years later she participates in braking up his new marriage. She is truly awful and this is the women you are pining away for?


^BINGO^
It is not retaliation it is being a morally upright human being, and not being a participant in the betrayal of the OBS. Even if you considered it a betrayal how on earth has your wife earned any loyalty from you. She showed you none ... ZERO.


----------



## DamagedGuy

sokillme said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to tell her, but I vowed not to retaliate, or my wife wouldn't reveal the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> What truth? Don't do it for retaliation do it because it is the right thing to do. Your wife is morally compromised, notice she doesn't seem to feel guilt for this. Guess she doesn't care about his wife. So she dumped him and then years later she participates in braking up his new marriage. She is truly awful and this is the women you are pining away for?
Click to expand...

She is claiming that she felt guilt and has been trying to put it out of her mind, but that she knows that she can't. 

I'm still filing for divorce, because she can lie to me so easily and that she has no morals. I can find a better woman who isn't screwed up. I hope that I can learn to trust again.

I'm trying to figure out how to deal with her ex and tell his wife. I was thinking of telling him that I know, and that I don't want to be the one to tell his wife. I think that in this way, I maintain my vow.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Lostinthought61 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anymore. Seeing my kids grow up. I can't see much more past any of this gloomy dark.
> 
> 
> 
> That is because she is the dark gloomy Mass front of you....once you remove her from your day yo day being things we clearer.... there may still be hard days but you will no longer have to brought down by her deceitful behavior....don't you think you deserve that.
Click to expand...

This is why I'm going to divorce and sue for my equity and for spousal maintenance, and buy a new house. I told her that I won't be able to have any dealings with her unless it concerns our aon, so that this love that I irrationally still have for her goes away.


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anymore. Seeing my kids grow up. I can't see much more past any of this gloomy dark.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so if your kids growing up happy is your #1 goal, figure out how that happens. And then mentally backtrack how to make it happen.
Click to expand...

They will automatically be happier without her around, I think.


----------



## turnera

Then you know your next 5 or 6 steps.


----------



## Tobyboy

DamagedGuy said:


> She is claiming that she felt guilt and has been trying to put it out of her mind, but that she knows that she can't.
> 
> I'm still filing for divorce, because she can lie to me so easily and that she has no morals. I can find a better woman who isn't screwed up. I hope that I can learn to trust again.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how to deal with her ex and tell his wife. I was thinking of telling him that I know, and that I don't want to be the one to tell his wife. I think that in this way, I maintain my vow.


Haha. So much guilt that she confided in her 16 year old cousin about sleeping with another guy? And that she was only stringing you along? Run. Don't walk.


----------



## DamagedGuy

I am sticking to my guns and not letting her breadcrumb me, and I am divorcing her. More information about her past is now filtering to me. She is completely messed up. These women put on a mask.

I think she does feel bad about what she did because of how loving and patient I have been, and I think she is mad at herself for being self-destructive and ruining the relationship. I mean, why tell me that she doesn't deserve me and that I deserve someone else (unless she plans on playing house with someone else, and accepts her reputation is tainted.)

I will divorce and start over, and be aware if my codependency and white night issues, and watch for red flags when I start to date.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> I will divorce and start over, and be aware if my codependency and white night issues, and watch for red flags when I start to date.


Please get some IC. We all want the best for you but you are probably going to need some help to fix the issues. Most people do. It will give you the best chance. I think your idea about telling the husband is a good one. 

I get the impression from your posts that your wife likes to present herself as a moral church leader or something is that true? What exactly is this reputation tha she is so careful about protecting. Didn't you already expose her on Facebook or something?


----------



## DamagedGuy

sokillme said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will divorce and start over, and be aware if my codependency and white night issues, and watch for red flags when I start to date.
> 
> 
> 
> Please get some IC. We all want the best for you but you are probably going to need some help to fix the issues. Most people do. It will give you the best chance. I think your idea about telling the husband is a good one.
> 
> I get the impression from your posts that your wife likes to present herself as a moral church leader or something is that true? What exactly is this reputation tha she is so careful about protecting. Didn't you already expose her on Facebook or something?
Click to expand...

I had a long post, but a glitch lost it. Basically, I have had an epiphany about my white knight issues, after reflecting on this and past relationships. 

This relationship has been more difficult, because a felt more for this woman than the ones from the previous toxic relationships. 

It is okay. I should get IC in order to buttress what I have learned abouto myself the last day. I can see some red flags that I could not before, especially as I compare precious relationships. I need to spot them earlier on in the dating process. I should also get a vasectomy, as I am 40, and I have my children. Having a child with a toxic woman causes me to put up with more abuse, rather than let go.


"I lovee being with you!"

"Great."

"My ex, blah blah blah... I had to leave him (or he left me) because blah blah blah... and it hurts. You won't do that to me, will you?"

"...."

"Huh?"

"You know, I have had a great time with you, though I don't think that we are going to work out. BYE."

This is how it should go. I found out a little bit ago, that my STBXW was having an affair with her ex-H while he was married to his 1st wife, who he remarried after my wife divorced him. She then slept with him, recently. Who do they think I am? Jerry Springer?


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> I had a long post, but a glitch lost it. Basically, I have had an epiphany about my white knight issues, after reflecting on this and past relationships.
> 
> This relationship has been more difficult, because a felt more for this woman than the ones from the previous toxic relationships.
> 
> It is okay. I should get IC in order to buttress what I have learned abouto myself the last day. I can see some red flags that I could not before, especially as I compare precious relationships. I need to spot them earlier on in the dating process. I should also get a vasectomy, as I am 40, and I have my children. Having a child with a toxic woman causes me to put up with more abuse, rather than let go.
> 
> 
> "I lovee being with you!"
> 
> "Great."
> 
> "My ex, blah blah blah... I had to leave him (or he left me) because blah blah blah... and it hurts. You won't do that to me, will you?"
> 
> "...."
> 
> "Huh?"
> 
> "You know, I have had a great time with you, though I don't think that we are going to work out. BYE."
> 
> This is how it should go. I found out a little bit ago, that my STBXW was having an affair with her ex-H while he was married to his 1st wife, who he remarried after my wife divorced him. She then slept with him, recently. Who do they think I am? Jerry Springer?


And she has no guilt about this right? Your wife is toxic. Why are you protecting this awful women?


----------



## DamagedGuy

sokillme said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a long post, but a glitch lost it. Basically, I have had an epiphany about my white knight issues, after reflecting on this and past relationships.
> 
> This relationship has been more difficult, because a felt more for this woman than the ones from the previous toxic relationships.
> 
> It is okay. I should get IC in order to buttress what I have learned abouto myself the last day. I can see some red flags that I could not before, especially as I compare precious relationships. I need to spot them earlier on in the dating process. I should also get a vasectomy, as I am 40, and I have my children. Having a child with a toxic woman causes me to put up with more abuse, rather than let go.
> 
> 
> "I lovee being with you!"
> 
> "Great."
> 
> "My ex, blah blah blah... I had to leave him (or he left me) because blah blah blah... and it hurts. You won't do that to me, will you?"
> 
> "...."
> 
> "Huh?"
> 
> "You know, I have had a great time with you, though I don't think that we are going to work out. BYE."
> 
> This is how it should go. I found out a little bit ago, that my STBXW was having an affair with her ex-H while he was married to his 1st wife, who he remarried after my wife divorced him. She then slept with him, recently. Who do they think I am? Jerry Springer?
> 
> 
> 
> And she has no guilt about this right? Your wife is toxic. Why are you protecting this awful women?
Click to expand...



I'm not. She is on her own. I'm going to take care of the divorce, and then notify her ex-H''s wife.


----------



## DamagedGuy

We are texting each other about the divorce such as who is getting what, and I reiterated that other than my equity, maintenance, and fees, our divorce should be amicable. 

She is also saying how she us damaged and broken and that there is something wrong with her, that she loves and cares, but that I need to be free of her because of her issues and what she has done. I agree.


----------



## ButtPunch

DamagedGuy said:


> She is also saying how she us damaged and broken and that there is something wrong with her, that she loves and cares, but that I need to be free of her because of her issues and what she has done.


She is being truthful here and you best believe her.


----------



## DamagedGuy

ButtPunch said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is also saying how she us damaged and broken and that there is something wrong with her, that she loves and cares, but that I need to be free of her because of her issues and what she has done.
> 
> 
> 
> She is being truthful here and you best believe her.
Click to expand...

I absolutely do. She apparently has no control over her immoral behavior. She said that she is no good for anyone. She wants to stay in therapy and try to become a better role model for our son.

I'm going to buy a house and go back to college, be single for a while, and then date. If women exhibit any of my wife''s tendencies, I will avoid them. 

I will say:

"Sorry, you seem great, but I don't think that we are a match."


----------



## badmemory

DamagedGuy said:


> She is also saying how she us damaged and broken and that there is something wrong with her, that she loves and cares, but that I need to be free of her because of her issues and what she has done.


Has your wife always used this tact with you? The classic passive aggressive BS; designed to evoke sympathy, avoid criticism and manipulate. I'm all too familiar with it.

I'm assuming it must have worked for her before. 

I've found the best response is to agree with her. Then change the subject or end the conversation.


----------



## DamagedGuy

badmemory said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is also saying how she us damaged and broken and that there is something wrong with her, that she loves and cares, but that I need to be free of her because of her issues and what she has done.
> 
> 
> 
> Has your wife always used this tact with you? The classic passive aggressive BS; designed to evoke sympathy, avoid criticism and manipulate. I'm all too familiar with it.
> 
> I'm assuming it must have worked for her before.
> 
> I've found the best response is to agree with her. Then change the subject or end the conversation.
Click to expand...

This is the first time she has admitted all of this. She is very exposed, and knows that people know what she has done. She has to own it now. 

I feel pity for her, though I will no longer be her victim. 

I'm filing at the first available opportunity, and once the legal separation portion of the divorce is official, I'm going to buy a house.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> This is the first time she has admitted all of this. She is very exposed, and knows that people know what she has done. She has to own it now.
> 
> I feel pity for her, though I will no longer be her victim.
> 
> I'm filing at the first available opportunity, and once the legal separation portion of the divorce is official, I'm going to buy a house.


I am proud as @#$%%#@ for you. You are opening your eyes DG. Just be prepared for her 

fallout during the D. Your STBXW is very vengeful. She knows you will D her but she will drag 

it out and hope to wear you down...... like she had in the past. You may have to offer her a better

settlement than you want to just to get it over with. A D is very traumatic. Even though... I knew 

my M was over, and I was ice cold with her..... still hurt like hell.

Get an IC that challenges you. NOT a co-pay collector who regurgitates what you say.

One who you cuss under your breath because they are making you look within.

You have Co-D issues but you recognize them. Now..... change them. 

Google Married Man Sex Life primer. btw-It's not a sex book.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the first time she has admitted all of this. She is very exposed, and knows that people know what she has done. She has to own it now.
> 
> I feel pity for her, though I will no longer be her victim.
> 
> I'm filing at the first available opportunity, and once the legal separation portion of the divorce is official, I'm going to buy a house.
> 
> 
> 
> I am proud as @#$%%#@ for you. You are opening your eyes DG. Just be prepared for her
> 
> fallout during the D. Your STBXW is very vengeful. She knows you will D her but she will drag
> 
> it out and hope to wear you down...... like she had in the past. You may have to offer her a better
> 
> settlement than you want to just to get it over with. A D is very traumatic. Even though... I knew
> 
> my M was over, and I was ice cold with her..... still hurt like hell.
> 
> Get an IC that challenges you. NOT a co-pay collector who regurgitates what you say.
> 
> One who you cuss under your breath because they are making you look within.
> 
> You have Co-D issues but you recognize them. Now..... change them.
> 
> Google Married Man Sex Life primer. btw-It's not a sex book.
Click to expand...

Thank you. We did argue a bit about telling her ex-H''s wife. She said "I don't want to be married anymore!" I said, "ME either, that is why I'm filing." I said that either she or her ex-H tell his wife and it is verified, or I do it. She then told me that she hated me.

Later, I had to talk to her about shop stuff, and asked her if she still hated me because I believe in doing the right thing. She said no, she could never hate me, and told me that she reached out to her ex-H about me knowing and that I have an ultimatum.

She got real emotional, saying again that she hates herself for hurting me and ruining our marriage, and that she forgives me for separating, and that I deserve someone better. I told her that I don't hate her, that I pity her and hope that she gets the help that she needs and that it works. 

She asked about the house I want to buy, if the yard had trees, and what not. So I don't think that she is going to be difficult with the D. She said that she talked to an attorney and realize's I get my equity, aND she agreed to the possessions that I want. 

She acknowledged that I will get maintenance but worried about child support, and I said that I'm not asking for c.s. and that even if I got it, the maintenance would be reduced, so she did not have to worry about it.

My codependency was flaring up. I realized that I try to talk to her just to be near her. I told her about it, and she seemed sad. She said she is sad about all of it, and wished that she wasn't the way she is. 

It is gloomy and sad, as there were many great times between us, but I know that she wold continue to sabotage us if I stayed with her and could somehow get over what she has done. The divorce is the only realistic option, as is moving out as soon as I can close on the house, in order to fully detach from her.

I have read the MMSLP, and some other books when I was working hard on saving the marriage, before the revelation that she slept with her ex-H. I have been following the advice therein, such as exercising, eating better, talking to women, and upgrading my wardrobe.


----------



## Chuck71

WTF is she NOT emotional? Let me clarify.... an emotional wreck. Best you end these coffee chats

with her. I know her pull is strong, like the Dark Side. Remember Vader was once a Jedi..... then

he kept tempting the Dark Side.......... he became it.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> WTF is she NOT emotional? Let me clarify.... an emotional wreck. Best you end these coffee chats
> 
> with her. I know her pull is strong, like the Dark Side. Remember Vader was once a Jedi..... then
> 
> he kept tempting the Dark Side.......... he became it.


It is exacty like an invisible pull. Before, I was blind to it, but now I can see it.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> It is exacty like an invisible pull. Before, I was blind to it, but now I can see it.


Now just stop listening to it.......


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is exacty like an invisible pull. Before, I was blind to it, but now I can see it.
> 
> 
> 
> Now just stop listening to it.......
Click to expand...

I'm trying, I really am. We have to coexist for a while. I went out to a local show with a friend to get out of the house for a bit.

My sister thinks that she is breadcrumbing and trying to keep a connection in order to make herself look better to the public after what she has done.

Though I know her, and her crying about her issues seems genuine. I do hope that post divorce, therapy helps her, at the very least for the sake of our son.


----------



## SunCMars

DamagedGuy said:


> I hear you, I really do. I'm calling another attorney in the morning to get more opinions on my legal standing. This woman is a serial cheater, and will always make me fight for the relationship, and make me play the pick me dance.
> 
> I don't know why I love her like I do. I hate myself for it. I have walked away from previous relationships because of similar behavior. But my wife... there is something about her. She is chubby and complains but does nothing about it, wants to be perceived as a good mother but has little to do with our son, has baggage, and self-esteem issues...
> 
> Gods, maybe I do have white knight syndrome. I cannot fathom, other than the fact we have a child, that I am putting up with her. Why!? I am attractive, smart, and educated, and defied death, TWICE. There are MANY women who would find me to be a suitable mate who would never put me through any of this! Why am I having such a hard time leaving this badly aging, damaged serial cheater who doesn't respect or love me!? Why am I doing this to myself?
> 
> I need to stop talking to her. I am curious as to what she has to say after IC tomorrow, but it will probably be manipulation. The counselor is certainly easily manipulated. But I need to file, and watch more of her true colors come out while I free myself.


I admire your courage. I do.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> I'm trying, I really am. We have to coexist for a while. I went out to a local show with a friend to get out of the house for a bit.
> 
> My sister thinks that she is breadcrumbing and trying to keep a connection in order to make herself look better to the public after what she has done.
> 
> Though I know her, and her crying about her issues seems genuine. I do hope that post divorce, therapy helps her, at the very least for the sake of our son.


Repeat after me....... she is not your problem anymore. 

she is not your problem anymore
she is not your problem anymore
she is not your problem anymore
she is not your problem anymore
she is not your problem anymore


----------



## DamagedGuy

SunCMars said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you, I really do. I'm calling another attorney in the morning to get more opinions on my legal standing. This woman is a serial cheater, and will always make me fight for the relationship, and make me play the pick me dance.
> 
> I don't know why I love her like I do. I hate myself for it. I have walked away from previous relationships because of similar behavior. But my wife... there is something about her. She is chubby and complains but does nothing about it, wants to be perceived as a good mother but has little to do with our son, has baggage, and self-esteem issues...
> 
> Gods, maybe I do have white knight syndrome. I cannot fathom, other than the fact we have a child, that I am putting up with her. Why!? I am attractive, smart, and educated, and defied death, TWICE. There are MANY women who would find me to be a suitable mate who would never put me through any of this! Why am I having such a hard time leaving this badly aging, damaged serial cheater who doesn't respect or love me!? Why am I doing this to myself?
> 
> I need to stop talking to her. I am curious as to what she has to say after IC tomorrow, but it will probably be manipulation. The counselor is certainly easily manipulated. But I need to file, and watch more of her true colors come out while I free myself.
> 
> 
> 
> I admire your courage. I do.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I'm trying. I have had to build it up, because I almost get sucked back in, all of the time. I am filing, no matter what. Either Monday, or another day next week if I decide to go with the first attorney. 

I have to remind myself that she betrayed me more than once, and that she will simply do it again, and her morals are scewed, and she is a homewrecker.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying, I really am. We have to coexist for a while. I went out to a local show with a friend to get out of the house for a bit.
> 
> My sister thinks that she is breadcrumbing and trying to keep a connection in order to make herself look better to the public after what she has done.
> 
> Though I know her, and her crying about her issues seems genuine. I do hope that post divorce, therapy helps her, at the very least for the sake of our son.
> 
> 
> 
> Repeat after me....... she is not your problem anymore.
> 
> she is not your problem anymore
> she is not your problem anymore
> she is not your problem anymore
> she is not your problem anymore
> she is not your problem anymore
Click to expand...

I know that you are right. I wish that I could turn off my feelings and detach. Filing and buying that house is going to help. Starting over will help.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Wife contacted ex-H to tell him that I know what happened and that I want his wife to know the truth. I said that I will need verification that he has told her. I will view my vow to "not retaliate" to be void once the divorce is final.

During all of this, she said that she back tracked after groveling because telling me about her ex-H one night made her feel worse, and that because of my anger about it, she realized that I will probably never be able to forgive her, and that her actions as of late and the way she currently is will make me miserable.

She then said that she hates his wife because her ex-H was previously married to her in the past, and she screwed him over financially while ex-H was married to my wife (her ex-H didn't remarry his wife until well after my wife and I had been together.)

I told her that the whole situation is an train wreck, and that her hatred towards that woman is no justification or excuse to screw her ex-H. She agreed, and maintains that it was a horrible mistake that she wishes never happened, and has no feelings for her ex-H at all. She had told her I the truth (finally) and she told my wife that she has a major problem that needs a lot of work.

So my plan is still in effect, to meet with the attorney tomorrow, hire him or the first one I spoke with immediately file so that I can start the process to buy the house, and move into it asap.

I need to do this because it is too difficult for me not to engage in discussions with my wife. Plus, she will act like everything is normal and fine, such as us eating dinner together as a family and watching movies, and talking to me about normal stuff, her job, life, etc. It makes it difficult to detach, and we have to coexist until I can get another place to live. I have to be careful, because moving out could be bad for custody, so I might have to stay here until custody is eatablished. 

Ugh.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> Wife contacted ex-H to tell him that I know what happened and that I want his wife to know the truth. I said that I will need verification that he has told her. I will view my vow to "not retaliate" to be void once the divorce is final.
> 
> During all of this, she said that she back tracked after groveling because telling me about her ex-H one night made her feel worse, and that because of my anger about it, she realized that I will probably never be able to forgive her, and that her actions as of late and the way she currently is will make me miserable.
> 
> She then said that she hates his wife because her ex-H was previously married to her in the past, and she screwed him over financially while ex-H was married to my wife (her ex-H didn't remarry his wife until well after my wife and I had been together.)
> 
> I told her that the whole situation is an train wreck, and that her hatred towards that woman is no justification or excuse to screw her ex-H. She agreed, and maintains that it was a horrible mistake that she wishes never happened, and has no feelings for her ex-H at all. She had told her I the truth (finally) and she told my wife that she has a major problem that needs a lot of work.
> 
> So my plan is still in effect, to meet with the attorney tomorrow, hire him or the first one I spoke with immediately file so that I can start the process to buy the house, and move into it asap.
> 
> I need to do this because it is too difficult for me not to engage in discussions with my wife. Plus, she will act like everything is normal and fine, such as us eating dinner together as a family and watching movies, and talking to me about normal stuff, her job, life, etc. It makes it difficult to detach, and we have to coexist until I can get another place to live. I have to be careful, because moving out could be bad for custody, so I might have to stay here until custody is eatablished.
> 
> Ugh.


STOP ENGAGING with her


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wife contacted ex-H to tell him that I know what happened and that I want his wife to know the truth. I said that I will need verification that he has told her. I will view my vow to "not retaliate" to be void once the divorce is final.
> 
> During all of this, she said that she back tracked after groveling because telling me about her ex-H one night made her feel worse, and that because of my anger about it, she realized that I will probably never be able to forgive her, and that her actions as of late and the way she currently is will make me miserable.
> 
> She then said that she hates his wife because her ex-H was previously married to her in the past, and she screwed him over financially while ex-H was married to my wife (her ex-H didn't remarry his wife until well after my wife and I had been together.)
> 
> I told her that the whole situation is an train wreck, and that her hatred towards that woman is no justification or excuse to screw her ex-H. She agreed, and maintains that it was a horrible mistake that she wishes never happened, and has no feelings for her ex-H at all. She had told her I the truth (finally) and she told my wife that she has a major problem that needs a lot of work.
> 
> So my plan is still in effect, to meet with the attorney tomorrow, hire him or the first one I spoke with immediately file so that I can start the process to buy the house, and move into it asap.
> 
> I need to do this because it is too difficult for me not to engage in discussions with my wife. Plus, she will act like everything is normal and fine, such as us eating dinner together as a family and watching movies, and talking to me about normal stuff, her job, life, etc. It makes it difficult to detach, and we have to coexist until I can get another place to live. I have to be careful, because moving out could be bad for custody, so I might have to stay here until custody is eatablished.
> 
> Ugh.
> 
> 
> 
> STOP ENGAGING with her
Click to expand...

I'm trying. It is difficult, as we both have to coexist here. Our son, my other sons, the nurses, her 16 year old cousin, our dogs, mutual bills, who is getting what in the divorce...it is nearly impossible not to interact with her, and the topic of our situation and what has transpired inevitably comes up.

It is why we must not live together asap. It is going to be difficult. My middle son and my wife still have a relationship that will end when we move. They say "love you," and everything else that a mom and son have. The whole thing sucks.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Chuck71 said:


> STOP ENGAGING with her


 DG ,You better listen to Chuck, because according to his pic he has bypassed the 2x4s and gone straight for the 2x6s. They hurt a lot worse and should get your attention much faster.


----------



## turnera

Just do this: NOTHING IS DONE EXCEPT IN EMAIL.


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> Just do this: NOTHING IS DONE EXCEPT IN EMAIL.


I don't understand. Do you mean communication in general? It isn't realistic, given all that we have to deal with, mutually. We literally have to coexist due to a lack of funds at the moment, and so many things tied together. 

I could be cold and distant, though that will create tension for my kids and the nurses. Since I am divorcing her no matter what at this point, I feel that taking the high road and being "cool"and friendly will make her have even more regrets once I am gone, especially with the probable low quality men she will inevitability hook up with. Maybe that is vindictive, but I don't care. I have a hard time believing that she loved me but "had a problem she couldn't control."

I need her to drop something off regarding the shop as she works closer ro the location, and she can't do it for a few days. I asked why, and she said that she had IC one day, and was meeting with her attorney on another. I asked her, out of curiosity, how she felt about all that has happened and that we are getting a divorce.

She said that when she is away, she misses me and has doubts, and second guesses the divorce. But when she is around me, she gets irritated and wants to sign papers asap. I laughed at her, and said "Really? And how do I irritate you, other than bringing up why we are here and discussing things (for closure and for a more amicable divorce?)"

I feel that her stupid answers are helping me to detach; that my own logic is now overshadowing my irrational emotions with regards to her.

She is projecting her issues onto me. That is okay. Her therapist can deal with that, and I am no longer her white knight therapist. I walked around the house that I want to buy, checked out what I could, including the yard that my sons will play in. I look forward to the showing this week, as well as getting preapproved for the mortgage. I'm gaining an extra 1000 sq/ft with this house, and it is a beautiful place on a quiet street. 

It is a brick Victorian, and it is right up my alley and will help with my writing. Our house sucks; needs a lot of work, and has a very poor layout, and she hates it (but wants to keep it, for some reason.) She will see my place during child exchanges and have even more deep regrets as my life gets better, without her and her issues holding me back.

It is a bachelor pad extraordinaire. I think I will buy the pool table and minibar that I always wanted, as well as have a dedicated room for playing music with my musician friends. I will do everything that I wanted to do in our house, that she fought me on. 

During off weeks when I won't have my children, I will be alone. But it will be mine.


----------



## Chuck71

Heroin and cocaine are bad for you, yet addictive. She is addictive.

Stay AWAY from her / it. Relapses are never pretty.

"You're still hanging around your drug dealer"


----------



## turnera

Sounds like you're trying to manipulate her. Sounds like you're not done with her.


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> Sounds like you're trying to manipulate her. Sounds like you're not done with her.


I'm just hurting and venting.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> Heroin and cocaine are bad for you, yet addictive. She is addictive.
> 
> Stay AWAY from her / it. Relapses are never pretty.
> 
> "You're still hanging around your drug dealer"


Hopefully the process to get free happens as quickly as possible. I need to legally separate in order to get the house and move out.


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> I don't understand. Do you mean communication in general? It isn't realistic, given all that we have to deal with, mutually. We literally have to coexist due to a lack of funds at the moment, and so many things tied together.
> 
> I could be cold and distant, though that will create tension for my kids and the nurses. Since I am divorcing her no matter what at this point, I feel that taking the high road and being "cool"and friendly will make her have even more regrets once I am gone, especially with the probable low quality men she will inevitability hook up with. Maybe that is vindictive, but I don't care. I have a hard time believing that she loved me but "had a problem she couldn't control."
> 
> I need her to drop something off regarding the shop as she works closer ro the location, and she can't do it for a few days. I asked why, and she said that she had IC one day, and was meeting with her attorney on another. I asked her, out of curiosity, how she felt about all that has happened and that we are getting a divorce.
> 
> She said that when she is away, she misses me and has doubts, and second guesses the divorce. But when she is around me, she gets irritated and wants to sign papers asap. I laughed at her, and said "Really? And how do I irritate you, other than bringing up why we are here and discussing things (for closure and for a more amicable divorce?)"
> 
> I feel that her stupid answers are helping me to detach; that my own logic is now overshadowing my irrational emotions with regards to her.
> 
> She is projecting her issues onto me. That is okay. Her therapist can deal with that, and I am no longer her white knight therapist. I walked around the house that I want to buy, checked out what I could, including the yard that my sons will play in. I look forward to the showing this week, as well as getting preapproved for the mortgage. I'm gaining an extra 1000 sq/ft with this house, and it is a beautiful place on a quiet street.
> 
> It is a brick Victorian, and it is right up my alley and will help with my writing. Our house sucks; needs a lot of work, and has a very poor layout, and she hates it (but wants to keep it, for some reason.) She will see my place during child exchanges and have even more deep regrets as my life gets better, without her and her issues holding me back.
> 
> It is a bachelor pad extraordinaire. I think I will buy the pool table and minibar that I always wanted, as well as have a dedicated room for playing music with my musician friends. I will do everything that I wanted to do in our house, that she fought me on.
> 
> During off weeks when I won't have my children, I will be alone. But it will be mine.


It would be unwise for you to assume that your wife is going to equitable in the divorce (assuming you really go through with it, of which I have some doubt). Nothing in all this shows that that will be her MO. Her previous relationship with her ex shows just how screwed her thinking is. If I were you I would prepare for a fight because I think once she really sees you are serious all bets will be off. Then when it is over she will treat you like she did her ex. Meaning even years later she will use you for ego boosting if the opportunity presents itself. Who you are with be damned. This women is very bad news.


----------



## DamagedGuy

sokillme said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand. Do you mean communication in general? It isn't realistic, given all that we have to deal with, mutually. We literally have to coexist due to a lack of funds at the moment, and so many things tied together.
> 
> I could be cold and distant, though that will create tension for my kids and the nurses. Since I am divorcing her no matter what at this point, I feel that taking the high road and being "cool"and friendly will make her have even more regrets once I am gone, especially with the probable low quality men she will inevitability hook up with. Maybe that is vindictive, but I don't care. I have a hard time believing that she loved me but "had a problem she couldn't control."
> 
> I need her to drop something off regarding the shop as she works closer ro the location, and she can't do it for a few days. I asked why, and she said that she had IC one day, and was meeting with her attorney on another. I asked her, out of curiosity, how she felt about all that has happened and that we are getting a divorce.
> 
> She said that when she is away, she misses me and has doubts, and second guesses the divorce. But when she is around me, she gets irritated and wants to sign papers asap. I laughed at her, and said "Really? And how do I irritate you, other than bringing up why we are here and discussing things (for closure and for a more amicable divorce?)"
> 
> I feel that her stupid answers are helping me to detach; that my own logic is now overshadowing my irrational emotions with regards to her.
> 
> She is projecting her issues onto me. That is okay. Her therapist can deal with that, and I am no longer her white knight therapist. I walked around the house that I want to buy, checked out what I could, including the yard that my sons will play in. I look forward to the showing this week, as well as getting preapproved for the mortgage. I'm gaining an extra 1000 sq/ft with this house, and it is a beautiful place on a quiet street.
> 
> It is a brick Victorian, and it is right up my alley and will help with my writing. Our house sucks; needs a lot of work, and has a very poor layout, and she hates it (but wants to keep it, for some reason.) She will see my place during child exchanges and have even more deep regrets as my life gets better, without her and her issues holding me back.
> 
> It is a bachelor pad extraordinaire. I think I will buy the pool table and minibar that I always wanted, as well as have a dedicated room for playing music with my musician friends. I will do everything that I wanted to do in our house, that she fought me on.
> 
> During off weeks when I won't have my children, I will be alone. But it will be mine.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be unwise for you to assume that your wife is going to equitable in the divorce (assuming you really go through with it, of which I have some doubt). Nothing in all this shows that that will be her MO. Her previous relationship with her ex shows just how screwed her thinking is. If I were you I would prepare for a fight because I think once she really sees you are serious all bets will be off. Then when it is over she will treat you like she did her ex. Meaning even years later she will use you for ego boosting if the opportunity presents itself. Who you are with be damned. This women is very bad news.
Click to expand...

I understand the concern, and have been mentally and emotionally prepping myself for the possibility.

However, I just got off of the phone with her. She spent too much money and had to cancel her appointent with the attorney.

I told her that I hired mine and that he is drafting the separation agreement. She is aware that I'm getting my equity and spousal maintenance, no matter what happens. She calculated the maintenance, and said she can't afford it. 

I told her that my attorney said that I cam negotiate a smaller weekly payout buy extend the time I will receive it. She also said thathat she understands if I want to be the primary caregiver. 

She feels bad, and is resigned. Part of her is hanging on, not wanting to dovorce, presumably to get help for her issues.

If I hold off on the divorce, I can get my house and stay in her health insurance. The whole thing is surreal and I would rather go through my accident again than this.


----------



## Chuck71

When you hold her accountable for her actions, the clouds will part.

Not until.....


----------



## sokillme

DamagedGuy said:


> I understand the concern, and have been mentally and emotionally prepping myself for the possibility.
> 
> However, I just got off of the phone with her. She spent too much money and had to cancel her appointent with the attorney.
> 
> I told her that I hired mine and that he is drafting the separation agreement. She is aware that I'm getting my equity and spousal maintenance, no matter what happens. She calculated the maintenance, and said she can't afford it.
> 
> I told her that my attorney said that I cam negotiate a smaller weekly payout buy extend the time I will receive it. She also said thathat she understands if I want to be the primary caregiver.
> 
> She feels bad, and is resigned. Part of her is hanging on, not wanting to dovorce, presumably to get help for her issues.
> 
> If I hold off on the divorce, I can get my house and stay in her health insurance. The whole thing is surreal and I would rather go through my accident again than this.


Get the best attorney possible. Have her sign everything before the financial and emotional turmoil of the change kicks in because once does look out.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, once the money issues kick in, look for her to start scrounging for every penny.


----------



## DamagedGuy

As usual, the predictions ring true. She came back from IC with an attitude (I really hate her IC who was also our MC.) 

She said that she never would do to me what I am doing to her with regards to the separation/divorce. She is going to wait for a copy of the separation agreement and get an opinion from her attorney.

That's fine. She can't get out of buying out my equity in the house. More than one lawyer has said so. I'm getting spousal maintenance based on a formula, length to be determined by a judge. I will become our sons primary care giver, based on how much time I have available for him.

I was willing to negotiate the maintenance amount to make things more comfortable, but if she gets adversarial, that will be off of the table. If she drags this out, I will sue for relief.

Other than that, there is nothing else I want, and there is nothing for her to hide. The way I see it, her actions with multiple men are why we have to separate, and she wants to walk away unscathed while I'm left with how to figure things out with a shop that is losing money, and disability payments which aren't very much.

Also, her getting angry and entitled really makes it easy to detach.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> As usual, the predictions ring true. She came back from IC with an attitude (I really hate her IC who was also our MC.)
> 
> *She said that she never would do to me what I am doing to her with regards to the separation/divorce*. She is going to wait for a copy of the separation agreement and get an opinion from her attorney.
> 
> That's fine. She can't get out of buying out my equity in the house. More than one lawyer has said so. I'm getting spousal maintenance based on a formula, length to be determined by a judge. I will become our sons primary care giver, based on how much time I have available for him.
> 
> I was willing to negotiate the maintenance amount to make things more comfortable, but if she gets adversarial, that will be off of the table. If she drags this out, I will sue for relief.
> 
> Other than that, there is nothing else I want, and there is nothing for her to hide. The way I see it, her actions with multiple men are why we have to separate, and she wants to walk away unscathed while I'm left with how to figure things out with a shop that is losing money, and disability payments which aren't very much.
> 
> Also, her getting angry and entitled really makes it easy to detach.


You cheated.

I'm divorcing you.

1st grader can understand that.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, the predictions ring true. She came back from IC with an attitude (I really hate her IC who was also our MC.)
> 
> *She said that she never would do to me what I am doing to her with regards to the separation/divorce*. She is going to wait for a copy of the separation agreement and get an opinion from her attorney.
> 
> That's fine. She can't get out of buying out my equity in the house. More than one lawyer has said so. I'm getting spousal maintenance based on a formula, length to be determined by a judge. I will become our sons primary care giver, based on how much time I have available for him.
> 
> I was willing to negotiate the maintenance amount to make things more comfortable, but if she gets adversarial, that will be off of the table. If she drags this out, I will sue for relief.
> 
> Other than that, there is nothing else I want, and there is nothing for her to hide. The way I see it, her actions with multiple men are why we have to separate, and she wants to walk away unscathed while I'm left with how to figure things out with a shop that is losing money, and disability payments which aren't very much.
> 
> Also, her getting angry and entitled really makes it easy to detach.
> 
> 
> 
> You cheated.
> 
> I'm divorcing you.
> 
> 1st grader can understand that.
Click to expand...

She feels that she should wall away unscathed. If she didn't cheat, and our marriage fell apart, things would be different as far as spousal maintenance.

She said, "This is all about money, and you know that I hate that!"

She stormed out of the room, so I didn't get to say, "You cheated and you know tag I hate that, and I'm on disability and we are splitting, so you have to pay a settlement."

Her showing the agreement to a lawyer is fine, because the agreement is far from unreasonable, but if she becomes antagonistic, it will probably not look very good for her. I'm also thinking about using the ID of her AP as leverage. I'm not usually dark like that, though right now I am in survival mode and have my sons to think about.


----------



## lucy999

I knew she'd get nasty when money talk came up.

LISTEN-STOP talking to her about anything but the kids. Don't talk about attorneys, division of property, any of that. Let the lawyers and judge hammer it out-that's why you're paying good money to an attorney.

She is your enemy. She is not your friend. Would you talk to your enemy about how s/he's "feeling about things", lawyer strategy, your strategy, what you're going to ask a judge for? No, you wouldn't. This is poker- do not show your hand or give any clues. Get a poker face, and get it quick. 

Stop talking. Because even if she was super agreeable, she'll turn on a dime. Trust that.


----------



## DamagedGuy

lucy999 said:


> I knew she'd get nasty when money talk came up.
> 
> LISTEN-STOP talking to her about anything but the kids. Don't talk about attorneys, division of property, any of that. Let the lawyers and judge hammer it out-that's why you're paying good money to an attorney.
> 
> She is your enemy. She is not your friend. Would you talk to your enemy about how s/he's "feeling about things", lawyer strategy, your strategy, what you're going to ask a judge for? No, you wouldn't. This is poker- do not show your hand or give any clues. Get a poker face, and get it quick.
> 
> Stop talking. Because even if she was super agreeable, she'll turn on a dime. Trust that.


I spoke with multiple lawyers, in person and on avvo, and they recommend that I try to hammer out a deal with my wife in order to save thousands of dollars, and that while I can sue her for fee relief, it will be expensive and difficult. I don't want to nail her that bad, I just want the equity and alimony without an expensive fight. Once she realizes that she will spend more money to fight it, she should give in.


----------



## lucy999

DamagedGuy said:


> I spoke with multiple lawyers, in person and on avvo, and they recommend that I try to hammer out a deal with my wife in order to save thousands of dollars, and that while I can sue her for fee relief, it will be expensive and difficult. I don't want to nail her that bad, I just want the equity and alimony without an expensive fight. Once she realizes that she will spend more money to fight it, she should give in.


That's fair. I will tell you something though. I work in the legal field and I cannot tell you how many times I have seen parties try to work it out on their own or in mediation, (which sometimes is court-ordered, )only to go to a full-on trial because someone either changed their mind or lied through the whole negotiations, there's a whole myriad of reasons. So, in the end, even more money was spent .

You know that your wife is a proven liar. Time and time again. Just be careful and do not take anything that she says as gospel.

But, a couple of pages ago, I seem to recall you talking to her about how she is feeling. Stop that.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I warned you about talking too much, but you had it handled. No, divorce is not like any other business deal or contract you have EVER written or controlled. Divorce is something which, has broken powerful people with HUNDREDS of millions of dollars at stake. As you keep reading from others, stop running your mouth.


----------



## DamagedGuy

lucy999 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I spoke with multiple lawyers, in person and on avvo, and they recommend that I try to hammer out a deal with my wife in order to save thousands of dollars, and that while I can sue her for fee relief, it will be expensive and difficult. I don't want to nail her that bad, I just want the equity and alimony without an expensive fight. Once she realizes that she will spend more money to fight it, she should give in.
> 
> 
> 
> That's fair. I will tell you something though. I work in the legal field and I cannot tell you how many times I have seen parties try to work it out on their own or in mediation, (which sometimes is court-ordered, )only to go to a full-on trial because someone either changed their mind or lied through the whole negotiations, there's a whole myriad of reasons. So, in the end, even more money was spent .
> 
> You know that your wife is a proven liar. Time and time again. Just be careful and do not take anything that she says as gospel.
> 
> But, a couple of pages ago, I seem to recall you talking to her about how she is feeling. Stop that.
Click to expand...

I am understanding that everything that she says is either a lie or a half-truth. If she really meant what she said about having regrets and wanting to work on the marriage and all of the other crap that she said, she wouldn't be having an attitude now. She would be happy to help me out so that I could get back on my feet, given my disability with my leg and back, and after all that she has done.

I reminded her that it will cost us more money to fight things than what she will have. She also is backtracking on my right to 1st refusal with having our son while she was at work. Let her try that in court. She will look like a terrible person while she loses. I have years of experience as a parent on her. 

I also reminded her that whether we were able to stay together or not, I would be the one taking him to preschool, to appointments, and to events because she would be unavailable. She is being a self-entitled idiot right now, and that works in my favor. 

"Why can't I cheat and walk away with everything, leaving you screwed, and keep you from our son while I'm at work!? WHAAAHHH!"

There is no way for her to get out of my equity, or some level of spousal maintenance. I am going to use my leverage with the ex-H of I have to, and I will tell her that I will push for a full custody review, including court appointed psychologists, and that I will bring in a MYRIAD of character witnesses testify on my behalf,, including my ex with whom I share a child. She will be destroyed. I was patient and forgiving, but now I am ticked off.

I will then tell more people why we are splitting up. 

If she wants to go to war, so be it. She has a good job but no money saved, and I have a nice personal injury check coming. I will force a sale of the house, if I must, and she has alienated her family. She is also going for custody of her 16 y/o cousin, and the court will look at that as well. I have a Word document where I am documenting how often she is away from our son.

Whew, I am feeling better. I was asking about her feelings because I was trying to guide things in a way to avoid a court battle. But it is probably best to avoid her and continue go detach while I prepare for what is coming.


----------



## Handy

DamagedGuy, if your state is no fault, the affairs don't count that much in what she has to pay YOU. Child support is determined by the state and how much each parent earns.

Don't count on having money to buy a pool table or a mini-bar and a bigger house costs extra money. You might have to settle for where you now live.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Handy said:


> DamagedGuy, if your state is no fault, the affairs don't count that much in what she has to pay YOU. Child support is determined by the state and how much each parent earns.
> 
> Don't count on having money to buy a pool table or a mini-bar and a bigger house costs extra money. You might have to settle for where you now live.


My attorney and my wife both calculated the maintenance that I will receive. She is not happy, and says she can't afford it. She can, she will just have to do without some things. She will also have to buy out my equity in our house, and I have a personal injury check coming. P.I. money, as long as I don't comingle it, cannot be considered as part of my financial situation in a divorce proceeding. I also have separate property that I can sell.

That money, and the loan I have a cosigner for, will get me the house that I am looking at. If she gets nasty, I will sue her for relief, and for child support. I will have everything sold by the court for equitable distribution, since I van easily replace everything. There is also a program to reduce property taxes, which I am going to sign up for.

My attorney basically said to get ready to move into my new house. The affairs won't matter, but the fact that that she makes quadruple what my disability nets is what matters, as well as the fact that I will be the primary caregiver.

I can't go after her for the affairs, but the situation results in a necessary divorce and allows me to be set for a while.

I told her from the beginning that I had been cheated on before, and she chose to do it to me multiple times. If she doesn't cooperate, I will go nuclear and request court appointed psychologists, subpeaona who I need to, and the works. She will not only be screwed, but the whole situation will expose who she is and what she has done to a much wider audience.

I'm done being walked over. I am awake, and I'm going to war.


----------



## Chuck71

If you have anything, in your name (or you and another party).... she will have a hard time trying

to get it BUT.... if it is.... land. Worth $25k when married, now worth $35k, she IS entitled to 

$5k of the $10k increase. This could have happened to me with a duplex, bought and I had my

mom's name put on the deed as well, in case something happened to me and she needed income.

About four months later, I met my future XW. Don't be surprised when she goes after your settlement

money. Can she.... oh yes! Will she get any? *shrugs shoulders*


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> If you have anything, in your name (or you and another party).... she will have a hard time trying
> 
> to get it BUT.... if it is.... land. Worth $25k when married, now worth $35k, she IS entitled to
> 
> $5k of the $10k increase. This could have happened to me with a duplex, bought and I had my
> 
> mom's name put on the deed as well, in case something happened to me and she needed income.
> 
> About four months later, I met my future XW. Don't be surprised when she goes after your settlement
> 
> money. Can she.... oh yes! Will she get any? *shrugs shoulders*


So far, all info says personal injury money belongs to the injured and is untouchable unless placed uni a joint account. Just to be safe. I am depositing it into my mom's savings account, which I will have access to.

I don't have anything else that she is entitled to, except for easily replaced electronics which could be sold by the court if she fought things. However, if she keeps the house, I get equity. That reminds me, our house can be turned back into a duplex. I should mention that to my lawyer.

I will definitely come our on top. People who know what she did hope that I nail her.


----------



## DamagedGuy

We negotiated the custody portion of the separation agreement, and she acknowledgesaid that I will get my equity, once it is determined what it is. 

We are negotiating my spousal maintenance. I'm being fair in that we are going over her budget and lowering it under the condition that I get it longer than normally would.

She complained about it a little, until I reminded her that since she keeps the house and most of the furniture, I am going out in the world starting over as,a disabled man water doing everything that I could to save the marriage and avoid all of this.

This was after a big argument over how she handled the shop and how she treated me. She reiterated that she is going through why she cheats with taken exes in therapy.

The wife I sent the transcript to messaged me on FB and asked that I don't tell my wife that she reached out. She said she has fleeting thoughts of suicide and lost weight because of our spouses. I feel bad for her and part of me wonders if I did the right thing.

We chatted for a while and our spouses stories aren't matching up. My wife sent her husband some pics, but he deleted them, so we dont know qhat the pics were of. I can't confront my wife without raising suspicion that I am working with her ex''s wife behind the scenes. 

I am still trying to figure out how to tell her ex-H''s wife. The gf of the OM was told a while ago, but she is in denial and stayed with OM. Three guys in a month and a half, and she slept with AT LEAST one. And she still can't say what she wants. I brought up the divorce, and she seemed shocked and said, "I thought we were just separating!?" 

I said that she has a lot of issues to work through, and we haven't had sex in a year while she cavorted with other men, so...


----------



## turnera

It doesn't matter anymore. You're divorcing. Move on.


----------



## DamagedGuy

turnera said:


> It doesn't matter anymore. You're divorcing. Move on.


This is true. I am glad that I have our agreement just about hammered out. The house hunting is in progress, and there is a local grant program to help people with down payment matching and closing cost assistance. Until all of these things are in place, we have to coexist in this house. I'm trying to do a 180, but we have a lot to hash out, such as the fact that it takes about three months to close and move into a house, I haven't found one yet, and the holidays are approaching.

However, I feel that the wife of her one ex is still going to reach out. I did send her the chat transcript and exposed our spouses. Not knowing the whole truth is bothering us both. I will answer her questions, and I hope that she figures out what she needs to do with her marriage.


----------



## JustTheFacts

I'm so glad that it is going to work out for you financially. It is extremely rare for the man who gets cheated on to actually get money from the WW and favorable custody. At least from the tons of threads that I've read on this site. Right on ! Hopefully, like you said, your business can pick up despite the certain damage that she has done to it. Please keep us updated and keep up the good work


----------



## DamagedGuy

JustTheFacts said:


> I'm so glad that it is going to work out for you financially. It is extremely rare for the man who gets cheated on to actually get money from the WW and favorable custody. At least from the tons of threads that I've read on this site. Right on ! Hopefully, like you said, your business can pick up despite the certain damage that she has done to it. Please keep us updated and keep up the good work


Thank you! I think that I'm coming out on top due to my accident, and my history as a father compared to her time as a mother. Plus, she doesn't really want me to get court appointed psychs involved.

She happened to get the well paying job at the tail end of this, and her treatment of me made it easy to go after my legal benefits.

A buddy of mine (ours) laughed when he heard this, for the same reason. We men tend to get screwed. It takes a stressful amount of finesse, evidence, and other things to avoid eating the crap sandwich, and I have managed it by the skin of my teeth. 

I still want to be rid of the business. It is a vampire right now, and I have bigger goals in mind. Plus, the business reminds me of "us" and thus needs to go.


----------



## lucy999

Good job on the negotiations. Please be careful re:alimony. Don't let her talk you into a figure that you're not happy with. Two of my friends did that, hoping to play "nice" and it bit them both in the butt. They're both crying poor mouth now because they were trying to be nice. Just remember. Although alimony won't last forever, this is your new life. Don't short change yourself.


----------



## Satya

Do not agree to anything verbally. 

Do not accept anything she agrees to verbally as a guarantee. 

Get every agreement in writing and do it through a lawyer. 

You can't afford to put the tiniest amount of trust in her any longer. This is your future.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Anything we agree to will be written into the separation agreement by my attorney. We calculated what the court would grant me, and it would leave her with very little. If I were to be granted 2.5 years at that amount, I could lower the amount and extend it to 4-5 years. 

She will eventually make $20/hr. She will also receive more money when she gets custody of her teenage cousin.

But everything will be in writing and filed with the courts, and it will be binding.


----------



## DamagedGuy

The wife of the one ex is in denial, and wants to refuse to believe that her husband and my wife did anything other than talk. He started going to AA and is looking for god, and is almost to tears because she is pestering him for the truth. We don't have any evidence to the contrary, so I suggested that if she decide to stay with him, that he needs to be an open book with total transparency.

She said that he gave all passwords and took the locks off of his phone. I wished her luck, that maybe they can build a stronger marriage, but that in any case, I hope she gets through this and can be happy. I hope at least one victim involved in all of this can be happy, because I know that I am not feeling happy at all. In fact, after anger and being on the warpath with the separation, I feel just as bad as I did before.


----------



## Chuck71

You exposed..... you did your part. LET IT GO

Whatever the OMW thinks, is between her and OM.

You did all you SHOULD do. 

Always remember..... sometimes it is best to not be with someone, even though... you still love them.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> You exposed..... you did your part. LET IT GO
> 
> Whatever the OMW thinks, is between her and OM.
> 
> You did all you SHOULD do.
> 
> Always remember..... sometimes it is best to not be with someone, even though... you still love them.


It's the details we don't have that are bothering us, but you are probably right. It just sucks not knowing the extent of the betrayal. I did learn that my wife initiated most of the contact, and they exchanged over 475 texts and she sent some pics to him.

It also bothers me that part of me can still feel some love for a woman that is capable of the things that my wife has done, buy I'm still getting the hell out of the marriage, and this house as soon as I can. 

And then I will tell the wife of the ex-H what happened. But not before I have my ducks in a row and legally binding agreements are in place.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> It's the details we don't have that are bothering us, but you are probably right. It just sucks not knowing the extent of the betrayal. I did learn that my wife initiated most of the contact, and they exchanged over 475 texts and she sent some pics to him.
> 
> It also bothers me that part of me can still feel some love for a woman that is capable of the things that my wife has done, buy I'm still getting the hell out of the marriage, and this house as soon as I can.
> 
> And then I will tell the wife of the ex-H what happened. But not before I have my ducks in a row and legally binding agreements are in place.


As I have said hundreds of times on TAM, I will ALWAYS love the person my XW was....

God she was amazing. But she has not been that person in a number of years.

Over a decade to be exact. I saw her at her best, as you did, your STBXW. Way it goes man....

IS and WAS..... present tense and PAST tense. If you learn anything, learn that.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the details we don't have that are bothering us, but you are probably right. It just sucks not knowing the extent of the betrayal. I did learn that my wife initiated most of the contact, and they exchanged over 475 texts and she sent some pics to him.
> 
> It also bothers me that part of me can still feel some love for a woman that is capable of the things that my wife has done, buy I'm still getting the hell out of the marriage, and this house as soon as I can.
> 
> And then I will tell the wife of the ex-H what happened. But not before I have my ducks in a row and legally binding agreements are in place.
> 
> 
> 
> As I have said hundreds of times on TAM, I will ALWAYS love the person my XW was....
> 
> God she was amazing. But she has not been that person in a number of years.
> 
> Over a decade to be exact. I saw her at her best, as you did, your STBXW. Way it goes man....
> 
> IS and WAS..... present tense and PAST tense. If you learn anything, learn that.
Click to expand...

I wonder if the woman that I fell in love with is real, or she was wearing mask the entire time. 

Even if we were to continue with therapy, sleep in the same bed again, and try to put the separation and her behavior behind us, her true self has been revealed, and she wouldn't be able to put the mask back on. Nor would I be able to forget what she has done. 

Since she knows that I have paid an attorney to draft the separation agreement and that I am actively looking for a house, she is breadcrumbing again. However, I am awake and I can see it for what it is. A narcissist who wants to control the relationship, and/or choose for herself how it ends. With hiring an attorney, I am choosing to free myself.


----------



## turnera

When someone removes access to themselves, they seem more desirable to you. You may feel it's love for her, but it may just be desire since you can't have her anymore.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> I wonder if the woman that I fell in love with is real, or she was wearing mask the entire time.
> 
> Even if we were to continue with therapy, sleep in the same bed again, and try to put the separation and her behavior behind us, her true self has been revealed, and she wouldn't be able to put the mask back on. Nor would I be able to forget what she has done.
> 
> Since she knows that I have paid an attorney to draft the separation agreement and that I am actively looking for a house, she is breadcrumbing again. However, I am awake and I can see it for what it is. A narcissist who wants to control the relationship, and/or choose for herself how it ends. With hiring an attorney, I am choosing to free myself.


When you met her.... she had her bandages on really damn tight. They were freshly applied.

As time passed and you became "invested" in her.... the bandages started to loosen.

A bandaged person has a knack for knowing "just how far" to push your boundaries.

The bandages slowly fall.... as do the 'mini' red flags. Followed by more bandages... one by two by ten by twenty

and the mini red flags simply become MANY red flags. But.... by then.... married, got some kids,

bought a house..... what a F'up we then realize. Whaddya do now??!!

-It'll get better, it has to. It was at one time
-Look how much I have invested
-Maybe if I "love" them more or "save" them more
-I don't want to "rock the boat"

When people try these.... I usually ask -how's that been working out for ya-

She showed you, DG, who she really was in the beginning. You refused to believe.

Many refuse.... you are in no way alone in that. She gave you the best she could, for a number of

years, you have children with her. Now you see her without the mask. And you are walking away.

Do not be fooled by her bread crumbs. She is bandaging herself up for the next person.

YOU know better now.


----------



## alte Dame

I am the mother of two extreme premies. They are now grown with full lives, educated, employed, and healthy.

They got this way because I never dropped the ball. NEVER.

They started out in life with huge disadvantages and I, as their mother, owed it to them to do everything in my power to help them recover and thrive.

It is not an easy life. A devoted parent lives with constant, silent anxiety about whether the child is developing well, worrying endlessly about what can be done to deal with the issues surrounding the effects of the premature birth. Special therapy, special classes, language deficits, unusual social development. The list of issues is long & that is only the case if you have avoided the worse things like CP and vision/hearing damage. With the more severe effects, the list is essentially endless.

I hope you get full custody, OP, because your stbx isn't equipped. She's far too selfish and messed up. She's disgusting, in my opinion.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Well I hope that the legal separation and getting a new house happens as soon as possible. I am leaving no matterms what, but having to coexist with her makes it very difficult. 

I am bouncing between being angry and completely done with her to that one stupid part of me trying to hold on. Don't get me wrong; I'm ignoring that ignorant, irrational part. But it is still there and it is causing me to feel more pain and hopelessness.

I don't understand it. I should not feel anything towards her except for anger or indifference. It is nothing that is going to make me stay, it is something that I shouldn't feel at this point. It should go away.

As far as her being who she is the whole time, we did talk about that. She said that she would feel shame and guilt after sexting an ex, but that she wouldn't dwell on it and she could put it out of her mind. She said that it was only recently that she recognizes that it is a pattern, and that is why she is able to get help for it now. 

I'm looking at another house tomorrow, and am calling my attorney to see where we are at with the separation agreement.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> Well I hope that the legal separation and getting a new house happens as soon as possible. I am leaving no matterms what, but having to coexist with her makes it very difficult.
> 
> I am bouncing between being angry and completely done with her to that one stupid part of me trying to hold on. Don't get me wrong; I'm ignoring that ignorant, irrational part. But it is still there and it is causing me to feel more pain and hopelessness.
> 
> I don't understand it. I should not feel anything towards her except for anger or indifference. It is nothing that is going to make me stay, it is something that I shouldn't feel at this point. It should go away.
> 
> As far as her being who she is the whole time, we did talk about that. She said that she would feel shame and guilt after sexting an ex, but that she wouldn't dwell on it and she could put it out of her mind. She said that it was only recently that she recognizes that it is a pattern, and that is why she is able to get help for it now.
> 
> I'm looking at another house tomorrow, and am calling my attorney to see where we are at with the separation agreement.


IF you rugswept everything............... what would happen?

How would you feel?

What would your future be?


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I hope that the legal separation and getting a new house happens as soon as possible. I am leaving no matterms what, but having to coexist with her makes it very difficult.
> 
> I am bouncing between being angry and completely done with her to that one stupid part of me trying to hold on. Don't get me wrong; I'm ignoring that ignorant, irrational part. But it is still there and it is causing me to feel more pain and hopelessness.
> 
> I don't understand it. I should not feel anything towards her except for anger or indifference. It is nothing that is going to make me stay, it is something that I shouldn't feel at this point. It should go away.
> 
> As far as her being who she is the whole time, we did talk about that. She said that she would feel shame and guilt after sexting an ex, but that she wouldn't dwell on it and she could put it out of her mind. She said that it was only recently that she recognizes that it is a pattern, and that is why she is able to get help for it now.
> 
> I'm looking at another house tomorrow, and am calling my attorney to see where we are at with the separation agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> IF you rugswept everything............... what would happen?
> 
> How would you feel?
> 
> What would your future be?
Click to expand...

I would feel like a chump and a fool, and the future would be full of paranoia, discontent, with a decided lack of trust, and full of wonder of what life with a good woman could be like.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Well it gets easier to detach when I find out that she kept on communicating with the first ex she reached out to right up until before I exposed them to his wife. Sounds like at least an EA to me. So at least one EA and one PA in a months time, while she cast a line out to another ex and started at least an EA with him.

Details keep emerging. When my legal separation is in place, I am exposing the PA. Now I am more angry than anything. The head nurse also has been reporting to my wife what she overhears me say, and what I post on facebook. I asked another nurse how she would feel with taking over her duties. I will mention what she has done, to my attorney.


----------



## Taxman

Appears that when the separation is in place you are going scorched earth. Make sure none of this can burn you.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Taxman said:


> Appears that when the separation is in place you are going scorched earth. Make sure none of this can burn you.


I am trying to stay calm and collected. It is difficult. I want to go scorched earth now.

The same people who already know have been updated with the new information. My wife is now fearful that I will expose the PA.

I honestly felt no connection with her today, whatsoever. I also got the pre-approval for the mortgage loan. Things are moving forward. Once the legal separation is in place, all I will need to do is expose the PA. I do not foresee any blowback on me for that.

Another nurse cautioned me about suing the head nurse because the private nursing community is tight nit and that our family will be black listed. I may have to ask my attorney about the statute of limitations.


----------



## lucy999

DamagedGuy said:


> I honestly felt no connection with her today, whatsoever. I also got the pre-approval for the mortgage loan. Things are moving forward.


That's great news.


----------



## DamagedGuy

lucy999 said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly felt no connection with her today, whatsoever. I also got the pre-approval for the mortgage loan. Things are moving forward.
> 
> 
> 
> That's great news.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I'm starting to feel some hope, finally. I have moral support coming in from all over. I wish the connection that I felt with her ended a long time ago.

Finding out that she had been communicating with the first ex she reached out to this entire time was something that I actually needed. When people fund out that she slept with her married ex-H, she will lose any support that she still has. It might keep other men away, so that I don't have to worry about them being around our son.

Now I feel like I can actually ignore her and communicate only when absolutely necessary, while I continue to work towards getting a new home and a fresh start. As soon as I have everything with custody and the separation in place, I will begin divorce proceedings. 

I was asked why I was bothering with the separation. It will allow.me to get a house faster than waiting on all of the divorce stuff. It will survive a divorce proceeding. It is lap cheaper. I can get a pro bono uncontested divorce and attach the post nuptial agreement.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> I am trying to stay calm and collected. It is difficult. I want to go scorched earth now.
> 
> The same people who already know have been updated with the new information. My wife is now fearful that I will expose the PA.
> 
> I honestly felt no connection with her today, whatsoever. I also got the pre-approval for the mortgage loan. Things are moving forward. Once the legal separation is in place, all I will need to do is expose the PA. I do not foresee any blowback on me for that.
> 
> Another nurse cautioned me about suing the head nurse because the private nursing community is tight nit and that our family will be black listed. I may have to ask my attorney about the statute of limitations.




Damaged

I'm only going to touch on the nursing end here, but what help the nurse provided was unethical. Her job is to provide medical treatment, period. For another nurse to caution you that the nursing industry is tight knit, wrong. Nobody would stand with this nurse once they find out what she did. The fact another nurse cautions you to think twice about suing is telling you to sue. Give the information to your lawyer. Tell him to send both nurses a letter with what they did and said. Watch how fast all the other nurses alienate them. Nurses invest time and money into a degree, then even more time and money to become licensed, no nurse wants their license to be reported. Black listed is the same as abandonment, tell that to the nurse who told you that.


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying to stay calm and collected. It is difficult. I want to go scorched earth now.
> 
> The same people who already know have been updated with the new information. My wife is now fearful that I will expose the PA.
> 
> I honestly felt no connection with her today, whatsoever. I also got the pre-approval for the mortgage loan. Things are moving forward. Once the legal separation is in place, all I will need to do is expose the PA. I do not foresee any blowback on me for that.
> 
> Another nurse cautioned me about suing the head nurse because the private nursing community is tight nit and that our family will be black listed. I may have to ask my attorney about the statute of limitations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damaged
> 
> I'm only going to touch on the nursing end here, but what help the nurse provided was unethical. Her job is to provide medical treatment, period. For another nurse to caution you that the nursing industry is tight knit, wrong. Nobody would stand with this nurse once they find out what she did. The fact another nurse cautions you to think twice about suing is telling you to sue. Give the information to your lawyer. Tell him to send both nurses a letter with what they did and said. Watch how fast all the other nurses alienate them. Nurses invest time and money into a degree, then even more time and money to become licensed, no nurse wants their license to be reported. Black listed is the same as abandonment, tell that to the nurse who told you that.
Click to expand...

The problem is how much the nurse that needs to be sued does, and how small the pool of private nurses are. 

Our area is very limited. My son will need in home nursing for at least another two years. There are no nursing companies in our area, and sometimes it is a struggle to schedule the nurses we have.

The situation sucks all around...


----------



## drifting on

Talk to the higher powers of the company, tell them you have given this information to your lawyer. Your lawyer wants to sue the nurses and the company for non ethical treatment and harassment. Watch how fast their disposition changes. The company and the nurses can be sued through the company and personally. You can have their licenses terminated very easily. Tell them to respond in writing to your complaints to your legal counsel. Any future "hiccups" in regards to your sons care will be handled by your legal counsel. Believe me they will care for your son.


----------



## drifting on

Damaged

Have your lawyer Google nursing fidelity.


----------



## drifting on

Actually here it is.



Fidelity- This principle requires loyalty, fairness, truthfulness, advocacy, and dedication to our patients. It involves an agreement to keep our promises. 
Fidelity refers to the concept of keeping a commitment and is based upon the virtue of caring."


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> Talk to the higher powers of the company, tell them you have given this information to your lawyer. Your lawyer wants to sue the nurses and the company for non ethical treatment and harassment. Watch how fast their disposition changes. The company and the nurses can be sued through the company and personally. You can have their licenses terminated very easily. Tell them to respond in writing to your complaints to your legal counsel. Any future "hiccups" in regards to your sons care will be handled by your legal counsel. Believe me they will care for your son.


They are private nurses who have billing numbers so that they can bill health insurance/medicaid/medicare. I don't think that they answer to anyone.

I could definitely sue her personally and go after her license. She knows it. She is here tonight and hasn't looked at me or has said a word. I hope that she feels like dog crap for ingratiating herself to my cheating scumbag wife and had put herself in this position.

If I sue her, there is no company to send more nurses. Most of the nurses here were brought in by this nurse. I am searching for a solution so that I can go after her.

It feels strange that I am in this situation where my wife is a cheater, but I can't do much about it other than happily divorce her, while she has all of these people siding with her, knowing that she is a cheat. 

Sometimes I hate this world.


----------



## drifting on

Leave your laptop close by with the nursing ethics on the screen.


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> Leave your laptop close by with the nursing ethics on the screen.


I could print them off and leave them where they will be seen by this vile nurse. 

People who know what she has done hate her and want me to sue her. There are very few gray area people involved in this situation. 

I also have supporters trying to talk me out of going nuclear because even though I would feel great for a while, my cheating wife is still out son''s mother, and the other victims of the cheating, namely the women who were cheated on by the men my wife was messing around with, might be humiliated. They have a point...


----------



## syhoybenden

Surely there exists an oversight body for all nurses in your jurisdiction responsible for their registration in accordance with standards of conduct, education and professional bearing.

Here in Ontario it is called the College of Nurses. Where does a nurse's registration come from in your jurisdiction?

These are the people your lawyers are to approach. I would think your lawyer would already be aware of this.

If the nurse is abusing her position they can cancel her registration so that she cannot work as a nurse again until reinstatement.


----------



## DamagedGuy

syhoybenden said:


> Surely there exists an oversight body for all nurses in your jurisdiction responsible for their registration in accordance with standards of conduct, education and professional bearing.
> 
> Here in Ontario it is called the College of Nurses. Where does a nurse's registration come from in your jurisdiction?
> 
> These are the people your lawyers are to approach. I would think your lawyer would already be aware of this.
> 
> If the nurse is abusing her position they can cancel her registration so that she cannot work as a nurse again until reinstatement.


I agree with everyone. I can go after her, there is no question. But none of the other nurses know how to do the extra things that she does with regards to the coordination and approvalso with different companies regarding my son's equipment and supplies.

There are stories of "difficult" families being without enough available nurses. Suing her or going after her license will cause other available private nurses to say "no."

The nurse and my wife could make the case that I am being difficult and try to affect custody. Even though I'm confident that I would ultimately win, my wife could be granted temporary custody with visitation restrictions based on what nurse is available during certain time slots. I would rather not fight that battle.

I had it out with her about things, last night, over text. I will save the text exchange. She sent my wife a message this morning that from now on all communication between them had to be about our son, and only about our son.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> I agree with everyone. I can go after her, there is no question. But none of the other nurses know how to do the extra things that she does with regards to the coordination and approvalso with different companies regarding my son's equipment and supplies.
> 
> There are stories of "difficult" families being without enough available nurses. Suing her or going after her license will cause other available private nurses to say "no."
> 
> The nurse and my wife could make the case that I am being difficult and try to affect custody. Even though I'm confident that I would ultimately win, my wife could be granted temporary custody with visitation restrictions based on what nurse is available during certain time slots. I would rather not fight that battle.
> 
> I had it out with her about things, last night, over text. I will save the text exchange. She sent my wife a message this morning that from now on all communication between them had to be about our son, and only about our son.




Being a licensed professional, she should have done that from the start. Instead she has meddled into your lives way past the ethics line. Since you have the texts saved, now would be a perfect time for a letter from your lawyer to her. Also, in at least my state, a nurse has to work under a home health company or doctor to treat patients. Nurses who go to homes are overseen by someone, even in hospice situations. Your sons primary physician could be the person who is over this nurse in her care of your child. Let the primary physician know what this nurse has done as well as the threat by another nurse that they are closely knit group and that your son could become black listed. I'm not trying to cause you trouble, just trying to help protect you.


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with everyone. I can go after her, there is no question. But none of the other nurses know how to do the extra things that she does with regards to the coordination and approvalso with different companies regarding my son's equipment and supplies.
> 
> There are stories of "difficult" families being without enough available nurses. Suing her or going after her license will cause other available private nurses to say "no."
> 
> The nurse and my wife could make the case that I am being difficult and try to affect custody. Even though I'm confident that I would ultimately win, my wife could be granted temporary custody with visitation restrictions based on what nurse is available during certain time slots. I would rather not fight that battle.
> 
> I had it out with her about things, last night, over text. I will save the text exchange. She sent my wife a message this morning that from now on all communication between them had to be about our son, and only about our son.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being a licensed professional, she should have done that from the start. Instead she has meddled into your lives way past the ethics line. Since you have the texts saved, now would be a perfect time for a letter from your lawyer to her. Also, in at least my state, a nurse has to work under a home health company or doctor to treat patients. Nurses who go to homes are overseen by someone, even in hospice situations. Your sons primary physician could be the person who is over this nurse in her care of your child. Let the primary physician know what this nurse has done as well as the threat by another nurse that they are closely knit group and that your son could become black listed. I'm not trying to cause you trouble, just trying to help protect you.
Click to expand...

I appreciate all of your help. Perhaps notifying my attorney and my son''s physician would apply a shield where my wife cannot screw with our custody agreement, and it would let both her and the nurse know that I am dead serious.


----------



## drifting on

DamagedGuy said:


> I appreciate all of your help. Perhaps notifying my attorney and my son''s physician would apply a shield where my wife cannot screw with our custody agreement, and it would let both her and the nurse know that I am dead serious.




That's a start, first you must protect your sons healthcare, by documenting what has happened. Once that is secured, then you address the ethics violations. Any retaliatory actions made after the documenting assure your son ethical health care treatment.


----------



## Chuck71

Bet your bottom dollar there are several nurses who do not "approve" of what the -head- nurse

is doing. Contact your health care insurer.... they can help you find another provider for son.

I would go after them, full on. But that's just me. I would not feel comfortable with a person of

her immoral standing, providing care for my child. I want to add something but I need to

ask, is your child verbal? How is his communication skills? I was a special ed teacher for a number

of years.....


----------



## DamagedGuy

drifting on said:


> DamagedGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate all of your help. Perhaps notifying my attorney and my son''s physician would apply a shield where my wife cannot screw with our custody agreement, and it would let both her and the nurse know that I am dead serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a start, first you must protect your sons healthcare, by documenting what has happened. Once that is secured, then you address the ethics violations. Any retaliatory actions made after the documenting assure your son ethical health care treatment.
Click to expand...

I contacted my attorney's office. He had to have emergency surgrey and is out for a few days, but they documented everything that I said, and his paralegal is going back and forth to house to keep things rolling.

I mentioned things going on with the nurse, and had notes added to update the separation agreement.

I'm risking using the knowledge I have for leverage. I have that flyer, and the evidence to back up what is on it. I will take out a billboard ad, if I have to. So I am hoping that my wife cooperates.


----------



## DamagedGuy

Chuck71 said:


> Bet your bottom dollar there are several nurses who do not "approve" of what the -head- nurse
> 
> is doing. Contact your health care insurer.... they can help you find another provider for son.
> 
> I would go after them, full on. But that's just me. I would not feel comfortable with a person of
> 
> her immoral standing, providing care for my child. I want to add something but I need to
> 
> ask, is your child verbal? How is his communication skills? I was a special ed teacher for a number
> 
> of years.....


He is almost 2, with an adjusted age of about 17 months due to being a preemie.

He knows some sign language, and communicates in his own way, and repeats some words. For his situation, he is very intelligent.


----------



## lucy999

syhoybenden said:


> Surely there exists an oversight body for all nurses in your jurisdiction responsible for their registration in accordance with standards of conduct, education and professional bearing.


State Board of Nursing. I think every state in the US has one.


----------



## Chuck71

DamagedGuy said:


> He is almost 2, with an adjusted age of about 17 months due to being a preemie.
> 
> He knows some sign language, and communicates in his own way, and repeats some words. For his situation, he is very intelligent.


I anticipated your son to be older. I have not worked with any student under 3.

But from birth-3 they are covered under a different name but it is the same thing as an IEP.

Lucy is right about above statement. Also... see what the supervisor of special ed

in your district can do about different nurses. "If you're a taxpayer, they are there to 

help you." You have many tools, utilize them....


----------



## Tobyboy

How are things DG?


----------

