# A little confused, to say the least.



## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Let me start off by saying I was a cheater,
I cheated for four months on my partner of four years, whom I have 2 children with.
I regret it completely and want to try to repair the damage I've caused, if I can.
This is all quite fresh, as I was only found out 2 months ago, with me withholding facts about what had happened for another month, another huge mistake in itself, although I found it very hard to look her in the face and tell her what I'd done, I was and am very ashamed and embarrassed about what I've done.
After I began to come clean, properly, she threw me out, understandable I guess.
After living apart for 2 weeks, we began to spend more time together, I stayed at home a couple of nights, she stayed with me too. 
Things were looking ok, then one day I rang her from work and she wouldn't answer, then I rang her after work and she didn't want to talk to me at all.
I felt something wasn't right, I drove up and found her with another man.
She has seen him again, since then, lying to me about where she was going.
My question, is, I'm having a lot of feelings of betrayal, and hurt. I'm really confused because do I have a right to feel this way? 
She told him we had been split up for months, it was her house, and I had no right being there. 
Which isnt true, 2 days earlier me and her were kissing and cuddling and talking about how we could move forward together.
SHe insists she has done nothing wrong.
After what I did, can I have emotional feelings about this? I dont feel like I can or should.


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## PastOM (Apr 12, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> Let me start off by saying I was a cheater,
> I cheated for four months on my partner of four years, whom I have 2 children with.
> I regret it completely and want to try to repair the damage I've caused, if I can.
> This is all quite fresh, as I was only found out 2 months ago, with me withholding facts about what had happened for another month, another huge mistake in itself, although I found it very hard to look her in the face and tell her what I'd done, I was and am very ashamed and embarrassed about what I've done.
> ...


How did she find out?
How long have you been married?
How old are the children?
What was the marriage dynamic before she found out?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

It appears both of you have done wrong now. May be a revenge affair or it may be your replacement. I wish I had some good advice for you. I guess I would say file for divorce. At this point your marriage is in the tank. Best of luck.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

You are married until a divorce ends the marriage, thus she is cheating on a marriage that she is still in. The courts do not allow divorces right away to allow for there to be a chance at reconciliation. Her cheating inhibits any chance at reconciliation. Also, it is not her home. Out of remorse, you temporarily moved out of your home, but it is still your home too. Her bringing another man into your home where your children live is way out of line. It is time to move back today. She has no legal right to keep you out.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Could be an exit A---could be revenge---could be lots of things---maybe she had a brewing A, in the works of her own-------who knows what is in her mind----no matter what at this point you have no right to say anything harsh to her, as it is probably what you did that precipitated what she did-----so if nothing else look at it like the playing field is now even-----or is it?????

If you and your partner/spouse, whatever she is---want to try R---you need to start with

A LONG TRUTHFUL, GET IT ALL OUT THERE CONVERSATION---actually many conversations---as if you were counseling yourselves----then you need to set some boundaries for each other


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

PastOM said:


> How did she find out?
> How long have you been married?
> How old are the children?
> What was the marriage dynamic before she found out?


The other woman texted late at night, I was asleep, my partner went through my phone, and found damning evidence on Facebook.
Not the full details, but enough to show something was going on.
We aren't married, we were engaged, together for four years.
Children are 27 months, and 15 months.
I would say that there was a definite lack of real communication and I felt emotionally abused from time to time, I definitely didn't feel equal in the relationship.
But I've since found out, when we were going to counselling, that she felt the same way.
I feel terrible for what I've done to her, but I love her completely and want to try to win her back, if at all possible.
I just feel that after I hurt her so badly, although I dont really know exactly how shes feeling obviously, its pretty upsetting for her to do the same thing back. Well thats how I feel anyway.
But I feel guilty for feeling that way.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

It seems she has replaced you with another man. I think she considers that you've been split up since you started cheating.


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## PastOM (Apr 12, 2013)

What a shame for the children! It sounds like she is either on her way out with an exit affair, or she was already engaged in an affair.

I suggest that both of you sit and have an open conversation about the next steps. If for nothing else, the poor kids.

As for the way you are feeling, I also suggest that you refrain from impulses to rekindle with the OW to make yourself feel better. It's better for you to be alone and focus on the kids - ALL other relationships can wait.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

TRy said:


> You are married until a divorce ends the marriage, thus she is cheating on a marriage that she is still in. The courts do not allow divorces right away to allow for there to be a chance at reconciliation. Her cheating inhibits any chance at reconciliation. Also, it is not her home. Out of remorse, you temporarily moved out of your home, but it is still your home too. Her bringing another man into your home where your children live is way out of line. It is time to move back today. She has no legal right to keep you out.


UNfortunately I did the same thing with the OW, brought her to the house.
So thats definitely no defence for me, but I still feel betrayed. I just dont think I'm allowed, because I was deceptive for many months.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> I think she considers that you've been split up since you started cheating.


Yes, thats what I think is the case.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

SHe has never had sex with him. And compared to what I did, it does seem pretty insignificant. 
Thats why I feel guilty, I will just keep my feelings to myself and try and show her I'm a better person then I was.


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## PastOM (Apr 12, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> SHe has never had sex with him. And compared to what I did, it does seem pretty insignificant.
> Thats why I feel guilty, I will just keep my feelings to myself and try and show her I'm a better person then I was.


Did you have a PA? If so, it's a matter of time for her. 

You really do need to nip this in the bud and have a conversation. Tell her she is free to have her PA after you have had a conversation about your relationship, and especially the path you are both taking with respect to the children.

Doing nothing, or going back to the OW is going to end in a very tricky situation for the kids.

Have you contacted OW again? Be honest ...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What does she say she wants? Is she refusing to stop seeing the OM?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you should tell your BW how hurt and jealous you are. This is the truth, after all, but will also serve to level the field a bit in her head. She will feel some satisfaction from knowing that you've had just a taste of what you have dished out to her. Whether this is rational or right is not relevant, in my opinion. Your feelings aren't rationally justified, but they are natural and very much a reality.

You may have no chance with your BW at this point, but if there is a chance, the only way to move forward is with honesty.

And....have you been in touch with your OW?


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> SHe has never had sex with him.


How do you know this? I think you need to drop yourself back to the ground level.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Suspecting said:


> How do you know this? I think you need to drop yourself back to the ground level.


agreed


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you should realize the relationship you had is over for good. She's decided to dump you and move on to another man.

She gave you a shot at R and she has chosen to not go there with you. She did very much cheat because she wasn't honest about the relationship she had with you. You thought you were working on R when she decided to dump you and move on to a new guy.

She has the right to dump you, but she doesn't have the right to have started a new relationship while offering to work on your relationship together.

Tell her you understand and you and her are now officially done and over. 

You need to make coparenting arrangements and financial agreements and you both need to embark on your separate lives.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> How do you know this? I think you need to drop yourself back to the ground level.


Yes, why wouldn't she have had sex with him?


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> How do you know this? I think you need to drop yourself back to the ground level.


Because she said she didn't have sex with him, now I think about it, I denied when I was found out as well, like most people probably do. 
She refuses to tell me anything about what she did, and flatly refuses to accept what she did was wrong in any way.
THats what hurts the most.

I have spoken to her about what she wants, and I'm trying to keep my hurt feelings in check out of respect for what I did to her.
She says she is confused about what she wants, so I'm hoping, in time there is still a chance.
I have had contact with the OW, very shortly after I was found out, to tell her that I really want to work on my relationship with my partner. But we were already at the stage of ending it shortly before my partner found out. The guilt was getting too great for me and was seriously affecting my life.
I wanted her to know for sure.
I haven't spoken to her since I found out about what my partner was doing, if thats what your asking. It started in the workplace, so I changed jobs to get away from her. Within a week of being found out.
I'm still committed to reconciliation, it sounds to me that most people think i'm wasting my time.
If that is the case, I'm ultimately responsible for this situation occuring. So i would have to accept that.
Its very hard, knowing that I caused all this, very hard.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Ask you wife if she knows what she wants. Tell her you want to make the marriage work and present a plan:

1. Neither of you see anyone of the OS without the knowledge of the other. Not even for support for a period of two weeks to one month if necessary - to calm yourselves. 

2. You and she will meet for talks where YOU promise to answer any and all questions. 

3. At the end of the cooling-off period you can arrange to split amicably or attempt to undergo couples counseling. 

4. Tell her in the meantime YOU will be seeing a counselor to understand yourself and your commitments better.

------------------

How are your finances? Do you both work? Does her "new man" work with her? Do you know who he is?

Do either of you have family living nearby for support? 

Do you work with the OW? Do you have reason to come in contact with her for any reason --- other than ...you know


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Ask you wife if she knows what she wants. Tell her you want to make the marriage work and present a plan:
> 
> 1. Neither of you see anyone of the OS without the knowledge of the other. Not even for support for a period of two weeks to one month if necessary - to calm yourselves.
> 
> ...


Asked her, she says she is still very confused.

I have agreed to answer all her questions, it took almost 2 months for me to give her the full story anyway, which certainly didn't help.

She refuses to delete this guy off her facebook, I dont know if she is in contact with him, she has put locks on her phone and carries it with her where ever she goes and refuses to show me when I ask her. Which to me would seem like a big yes to still being in contact

I have agreed to not going out anywhere without her if thats what she wants, especially with the OS, and she has full access to my life, phone, facebook, she has all my passwords.

I have been going to counselling pretty much since the time i was found out.

I work full time, she is a full time mother at the moment, I support her and the kids. I dont know the guy, she says she met him in a nightclub.

I did work with the OW, thats how it started, but I quit the week after I was found out, so that is no longer an issue. Luckily I'm very experienced in my trade, and had another job to go to straight away.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

This is why I'm so conflicted, I dont feel like I have a right to accuse her, or demand anything of her


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

I think you both svck!! 

Now that that's out, imagine her feelings from finding out YOU were unfaithful. If you two were in love at the time, multiply her feelings by 10 to get your starting point! Sure, you feel betrayed and no doubt so did she. You may need to approach this as having to win her back. Have a discussion about starting-over with no more hurting one another. Talk about total transparency and a loving home for the children. You need to determine if she still has feelings for you and even wants a future with you. I hope you can R and focus on raising your children.

Live and learn guy, you can have your feelings, but so can she. Don't cheat again as this or worse will be the result. Good Luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Can I tell this guy the full story? As I don't know if she has


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If she has your passwords you should also have hers.

She's playing a bull-sht game her where you are in the dog house for your cheating, but she's allowed to continue dating this guy.

Sorry, but she has lost the moral high ground with her revenge affair,

Time to stand up and refuse to allow her to have a double standard.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> If she has your passwords you should also have hers.
> 
> She's playing a bull-sht game her where you are in the dog house for your cheating, but she's allowed to continue dating this guy.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:You need her passwords.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

You both cheated.

How do you think there is a scope for recovery in this case?


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

OP - have you actually told how you feel when you think about her 'dating' another man?

If i was in your wifes shoes I might want to know you were feeling at least some of the pain I had felt.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree....tell her and show her how upset you are. It will help her feel better about her own pain and worse about doling out the same pain to you. 

Try to act away from the guilt you feel now, try to distance yourself from it, and fix your marriage. Start being firm with her. 

She has had her revenge affair, you acted shi*tier (in one sense) but hey, this is no competition. Both of you now have sh*t on your doorstep. Time for you (both) to clean it up and move forward. Start being firm. Don't hesitate on this because those who hesitate lose, worse, they get shot!


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

johnvk72 said:


> Because she said she didn't have sex with him, now I think about it, I denied when I was found out as well, like most people probably do.
> She refuses to tell me anything about what she did, and flatly refuses to accept what she did was wrong in any way.


But what's she's doing is wrong, and until she comes to that realization you can't reconcile with her. 

Look, she's seeing another guy and she refuses to disclose anything about it. You can't go on like that. If she wants to continue down that road then you have to realize that reconciliation is impossible at this point and you're better off being fully separated from one another.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm most likely going to move out, she is not interested that I can see.
She doesn't care at all, I tell her I cant imagine the hurt she is feeling but she has hurt me too. 
She actually told me to shut up and stop talking about it.
Oh well, looks like its over then.
What a life lesson


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

johnvk72 said:


> I'm most likely going to move out, she is not interested that I can see.
> She doesn't care at all, I tell her I cant imagine the hurt she is feeling but she has hurt me too.
> She actually told me to shut up and stop talking about it.
> Oh well, looks like its over then.
> What a life lesson


Sounds like she's still bent on revenge and on hurting you as much as she can. That will probably pass, but the question is whether you can have the patience to endure--and the desire-- while she off with every man she feels like.

May be best just to let her go. WHen you're not around for her to practice her little acts of revenge, her attitude may change.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Karma"s a bi*ch.

time to move on in my opinion. you guys just arn't right for eachother.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Well I'm still convinced we can fix it, 
I know what I've done, I regret it with every part of my body and soul.
And I'm committed to making myself a better person so it never happens again, no matter what happens with this present relationship.
I dont believe in karma, every person is responsible for their own actions, as I am responsible for mine.
I haven't given up hope, I just need to be patient, very patient.
I'm learning a lot of things though.
She has just told me that I'm responsible for all the problems in the relationship.
I know its just her anger and hurt talking. 
I can endure, I can forgive. But I will reach my limit eventually.
I think I should move out, buts its very hard to leave my little ones behind.
I should have thought of that before I did what I did, though.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You were busted in your A, right? You didn't feel bad and end it and then confess, correct?

What happened with that? Did she see/hear anything worse than the (sadly) usual 'I have a bad feeling. Are you cheating on me?' confrontation? This is bad enough, but what happened?

It sounds like as time passes, she's angrier and more inclined to not want you back. This often happens when the BS tries to get to a better place emotionally, but realizes that the trauma may be too great.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Right now she's no different that he was. As a matter of fact she's being way more openly cruel and entitled he ever was.

You are now a BS too. Act accordingly.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

johnvk72 said:


> I'm most likely going to move out, she is not interested that I can see.
> She doesn't care at all, I tell her I cant imagine the hurt she is feeling but she has hurt me too.
> She actually told me to shut up and stop talking about it.
> Oh well, looks like its over then.
> What a life lesson


Do you think she was having an affair too? Just you that got found out first. She doesn't sound like any BS I have ever seen, whether they want to R or just throw the Wayward out. Never seen this! (Edit: At least not so quick)

She was doing the dirty on you too! Get your kids DNA tested. Check out her phone bills and computer browsing. You can access deleted history somehow too.

She is just pissed at you because you were doing the dirty too.

IMO

Edit: I was thinking maybe this was a very swift thing, and a far too fast change of heart. But actually, she has had a few months (?) to digest this....maybe this is her way of dealing with such intense anger. And by god, I can tell you, after the devastation and upset, the anger is intense...murderous. Maybe not the above after all...though something to consider I guess.


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## mg2977 (Mar 20, 2013)

I may get trouble for this but I may be able to offer a slightly different perspective. Please note I am not in anyway condoning cheating - look for my thread and you will see my crazy situation.

But with that said while it may be an exit affair or a revenge affair, is it possible that she really only started this after she learned of your affair? What I am wondering is if she met this guy while you were separated and just is clinging to him as she is desperate to feel desirable and wanted right now (again no justifications). While it is not right that she attempted R with you and carried on with this guy (and her lies to him), could it be that when she is with you she really wants to try to work it out but right now it is so painful and she is just getting a self esteem boost from this new "relationship"? Basically maybe she feels in an ideal world, you could R but she is so hurt and has no self esteem right now, that she is using this other man to feel something again. Or maybe this is revenge.

The reason I ask is after I found out about my H's torrid affair, I did not want to have a revenge affair, but I was so broken and beaten down that I contemplated trying to find someone new. Granted I had filed for D and we were over, but even when my H asked to R, I still in a way wanted to feel desirable to someone else. I wanted someone who treated me well, had not lied and cheated on me and someone who made me feel valuable. It is not right and I may not be explaining myself well at all, but could it be a very real possibility that she is just all over the place emotionally and does not know what she wants - if so you certainly need to demand honesty and answers from her.

I just know that while I avoided temptation, I did see the lure of finding someone else to serve as a sort of escape from my reality. There was a time I just wanted someone to take me to dinner, laugh with me and just make me feel something other than crushing destruction that I felt from my H. Again not making excuses and many will feel I am not a "good person" or I have issues for contemplating this, but this is honestly how I felt a lot. 

Again, try to get honest answers from her. She could now be in her own "fog" bc this guy is so new and "wonderful" (she does not even know him), so maybe just work on you, show her genuine remorse (do not reengage with your former affair partner) and show her you want to make this work (if you do). And if she does not come around, then you have still made yourself a stronger person.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

John,

How old are you and your partner?

I am also trying to understand your level of commitment to each other.

You have two kids. You are engaged but never got married.

Is it you? Is it her? Was one of you not committing to a long term relationship?

Was it because of he infidelity?

All I will say is this.

Do not move out. Own up to everything if you have not already. Be a Dad to those kids.

And be an open book to your partner. Treat like a partner.

ANd she needs to resolve the anger. You deserve a beating. 

But her having a revenge affair just shows me that you two are both immature.

Two wrongs do not make it right.

You should both start being honest and give your relationship 12 months to get back on track. And you both need to take care of those kids.

Clubbing, partying and cheating are not a good way to raise kids.

HM64


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Look, i understand your feelings of guilt are preventin you from thinking and acting clearly in this situation, but as you've already been told on a few occasions in this thread, what she is doing is way out of bounds. Your are still technically married, and she is actin in a way that is consistent with all the major red flags that come with an affair. Two wrongs never make a right. You need to do the hard thing and stand up for the virtue of what a marriage is supposed to be. Yes you will come off as a hypocrite and a selfish d-bag, but you will at the very least show that you have learned something from your own mistakes, and will not put up with a toxic relationship.

Explain to her that regardless of how you acted, what she is doing is wrong, and if she continues to be secretive with her phone/facebook/email/anything and if she continues to communicate with this guy, you will file for divorce. 

I know that must sound counter intuitive at the moment, but it will send a clear signal to her that you now understand what a proper marriage should be, and will do what is necessary to maintain whatever self respect you still have, in addition to protecting the idea of what a marriage is supposed to look like.

Also, if she has not had sex with him yet (very unlikely) and you explain to her that what she is doing is unacceptable, you will have the chance to divorce her, and save her from being a cheater herself. Once the dust settles, she will be grateful for that. Just think about how you are feeling right now, do you want her to feel the same way in two years?


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

If you move out, take her engagement ring with you.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who replied with their thoughts and advice, I apologise for not taking part in the thread I created, just a lot going on in the last few months.

So with regard to the situation that caused me to come here for advice initially.
My partner/ex/BS or what ever she is, continued to see this guy for about four months, all the while completely denying it.
I only found out because her Facebook was left logged in and I saw messages between them.
Anyway, turns out he was an idiot, and the last straw was when he was driving like an idiot and almost had an accident with her and my 18! month old daughter in the car!!!!!!

I was told this by one of her friends, not by her. Weird, her best friend actually feels sorry for me, even after what I did.

She now says she is willing to work on our relationship, and just last week said she had forgiven me, but that it will a very long time for the hurt to fade and the trust to return.

But she is still being secretive with her phone and her whereabouts.
I know she is not seeing guy from before, but now what?

Also, her friend told me that she only said she would work on it, so I would stop hassling her for long enough for her to save enough money to move out.
I don't know if this is true or not, how could I know? I don't want to believe it.
If I try and bring things up, or question her about ANOTHER random number calling her phone, she just gets really defensive and says I'm don't have the right to question her about anything.
I just feel like I'm trying to give 100%, trying to. And she is only giving about 60%.
She still tells her friends we're not together, even though we are sleeping in the same bed again, and there has been some physicality.
Some people on here might say I deserve this, but I don't think this is right, but I cant let go.
I really want this, I really DO love her, I really DO want to be with her.
I don't know what to do to really try and make up for what I've done.
I help out more around the house, and with the kiddies.
I do anything she asks of me, massages, cleaning, doing errands for her.
I was going to counselling but I've had to stop as I simply cant afford it.
I've really tried to explain to her how I could do what I did, as best I can.
I've told her the whole truth.
Do I sound selfish right now? I'm not really trying to be, I just want some advice on what more I can do to.
You know, to just keep doing the right thing on my end.
And to show that I am serious about wanting to work on this. 
JUst like the thread title says, still seriously confused.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

I wont lie, when it really starts to get to me, I sometimes think about the OW.
I haven't tried to contact her at all.
In fact she texted me and I just deleted it.
but I have thought about her


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sounds like she was full on dating the idiot, but that relationship ended. But she's still hiding things and denying the relationship so I'm betting there is a new guy.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

She's already had sex with him. 

In my opinion the marriage is dead. You both quit. 

Divorce her and move on. Give yourself closure.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> John,
> 
> How old are you and your partner?
> 
> ...


I am 35 and she is 25,
We were only engaged for about 4 months before I started my affair.
We were together for 3 years before that.
I did not move out.
I really want to try and sort this out.
I agree, she needs to stop acting like she is single, if she really is serious about trying to reconcile.
I just don't know what to do. Right now, it is night here, Friday night, and she is out, while I sit at home.... because she says she doesn't want to go out with me yet.
I just feel so lonely, so completely alone, even with the kids asleep in their beds


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Your relationship ended the day she found out about your affair. That said, you don't deserve to be treated this way. She is punishing you and using you. 

It's time for you to move on, she did months ago.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Vanguard said:


> She's already had sex with him.
> 
> In my opinion the marriage is dead. You both quit.
> 
> Divorce her and move on. Give yourself closure.


I 'm under no illusions here, she was obviously sleeping with him.
If we can work it out, I don't care.
I'm just not sure that I'm ready to give up


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> I wont lie, when it really starts to get to me, I sometimes think about the OW.
> I haven't tried to contact her at all.
> In fact she texted me and I just deleted it.
> but I have thought about her


Did you tell your fiance about the text? If not then you are still hiding things as well and this needs to stop. Deleting the text and not responding is the right thing to do, but not until after notifying the fiance. I know that you have a had a LTR, but without the full commitment or marriage, other than the kids there really is nothing legally that is keeping her with you, so maybe she has moved on and no chance for R is there. She sees that you will continue to support her lifestyle and that is really all she wants it seems. The only thing that I can say is that if you want to fix this it is going to take a long time (it is not a fast recovery) and you just need to keep giving it 150%. If you are not committed to that then maybe it is time to move on. It is sad, but you are reaping what you sow and you are seeing exactly how bad you hurt her by experiencing it first hand.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Did you tell your fiance about the text? If not then you are still hiding things as well and this needs to stop. Deleting the text and not responding is the right thing to do, but not until after notifying the fiance. .


This is helpful, I didn't even really think to tell her, I just deleted it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I have just caught up with this thread. Firstly some questions about the first part:

Did you (both) ever fully come to an understanding of why you cheated on her for four months ? Did she accept the reason and agree to move on or was it largely rug-swept ?
Was it made clear that your R was mutually agreed and that you had effectively started over again ? If this was the case and the reset button was pressed, she had no excuse to go and cheat.
When she started cheating (and yes this was nothing other than cheating), did she try and hide it from you ? It seemed that it didn't take much for you to find out. So did she want you to find out ?
When you found out, did she ask you to leave ?
The answers to the above will really explain a lot about what you should have done and also what you should do now. Essentially, she has been misbehaving with no remorse in sight. I am not sure and don't know if you know for sure that she hadn't started up her affair before you were found out (this is why I ask what was agreed when you found out - if she let you off the hook easily then this maybe the reason). In any case she does not love you at the moment and I don't know how you agreed to let the OM be around your children. Even though you are not married, you are both parents and have equal rights and should have equal concerns when it comes to the kids. You need to start looking at child custody etc first and then worry about your personal relationship with her.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> This is helpful, I didn't even really think to tell her, I just deleted it.


If this text came in while she was cheating with the OM or maybe more than one man, I don't see how telling her would have made too much of a difference other than to gaslight it into yet another reason to justify her behaviour.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> I am 35 and she is 25,
> We were only engaged for about 4 months before I started my affair.
> We were together for 3 years before that.
> I did not move out.
> ...


Perhaps I do not fully grasp the meaning of being engaged - you lived together for 3 years and had two kids but did not consider yourself engaged to each other - I do not understand being engaged for 4 months after all that. Were you in an open relationship prior to the 4 months ?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> I just don't know what to do. Right now, it is night here, Friday night, and she is out, while I sit at home.... because she says she doesn't want to go out with me yet.
> I just feel so lonely, so completely alone, even with the kids asleep in their beds


Why did you allow her to go out without you? Sorry and not trying to chauvenistic or controlling to the others on here, but if you are the one bringing in the money and she doesn't want to be with you, then you should not be giving her money to allow her to go out. If she wants to be independent, then make her be responsible for herself and get a job to earn play money. You can pay the housing, food allowances, and support for your children, but you really don't owe her a cent for her personal endeavors and fun if she doesn't want to be with you. You are her glorified money pit and baby sitter.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Also, during the 4 months that she continued to see and sleep with him, were you both living in the same house ? This would have been torture beyond compare for me. Especially if I had kids in the same house too. Or had he replaced you completely in the house ?


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> I have just caught up with this thread. Firstly some questions about the first part:
> 
> Did you (both) ever fully come to an understanding of why you cheated on her for four months ? Did she accept the reason and agree to move on or was it largely rug-swept ?
> Was it made clear that your R was mutually agreed and that you had effectively started over again ? If this was the case and the reset button was pressed, she had no excuse to go and cheat.
> ...


We were going to counselling and trying to work through the reasons for what I did. I was doing a lot of blameshifting at the time though.
I had moved out, (to her Dads at her request).
We had not agreed to reconcile at the time, not really, but we were trying.
I found out initially that she had met someone else, when I went home, to be romantic, and found him there.
That's when I moved back to the house I paid for.
It was at this point that she said she didn't want to work it out.
I basically said to her that she was only saying that because she met this guy, because she was trying right up till that point.

SHe completely denied seeing the guy again, for the whole time she was seeing him. 
I DID NOT consent to him being around our kids, he used to go to our house when I was at work I eventually found out.
She did not ask me to move out when I found out

SHe in fact said she was only seeing him to feel better and she was planning to break it off because she didn't really like him.

In the last 6 weeks or so I have pretty much been able to understand and explain why I did what I did.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> Asked her, she says she is still very confused.
> 
> I have agreed to answer all her questions, it took almost 2 months for me to give her the full story anyway, which certainly didn't help.
> 
> ...


A full time mother who goes to nightclubs (without you) ???


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> Perhaps I do not fully grasp the meaning of being engaged - you lived together for 3 years and had two kids but did not consider yourself engaged to each other - I do not understand being engaged for 4 months after all that. Were you in an open relationship prior to the 4 months ?


No, I proposed to her 4 months prior. With the ring and the nice dinner and romantic location.
We were in a long term committed relationship, until I did what I did


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> If this text came in while she was cheating with the OM or maybe more than one man, I don't see how telling her would have made too much of a difference other than to gaslight it into yet another reason to justify her behaviour.


It is showing change and remorse on his part, so that he is willing to be completely transparent. The fact that he is willing to show her that the text came in and he is not responding, shows that he is not in contact. He lied for so long and covered up the A that this is just seen as more of the same, and that is what she believes is happening (so stop the reinforcement). The only thing that he can control and change now is himself, and he needs to do this in order to rebuild and earn the trust if they are ever to R. I don't think R is in the cards anymore, but he needs to know that this behavior is not acceptable, if nothing else for his next relationship. In order to enact change, one must be able to make the new behavior routine. The old behavior was to read, respond, and delete. The new behavior should be to notify the other partner and they read together and then delete together (and decide if to response is appropriate or not). This action shows that no contact is trying to be maintained and change being attempted and accomplished. He is doing this for himself and his betterment (as the secrecy and straying boundaries are what got him in trouble before) and not for her now.


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> Also, during the 4 months that she continued to see and sleep with him, were you both living in the same house ? This would have been torture beyond compare for me. Especially if I had kids in the same house too. Or had he replaced you completely in the house ?


I was living back at home, he would go there while I was at work


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> A full time mother who goes to nightclubs (without you) ???


Yes, well, I was not living at home at the time, and I had the kids on the weekend and she went out with her friends


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## johnvk72 (Apr 28, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> It is showing change and remorse on his part, so that he is willing to be completely transparent. The fact that he is willing to show her that the text came in and he is not responding, shows that he is not in contact. He lied for so long and covered up the A that this is just seen as more of the same, and that is what she believes is happening (so stop the reinforcement). The only thing that he can control and change now is himself, and he needs to do this in order to rebuild and earn the trust if they are ever to R. I don't think R is in the cards anymore, but he needs to know that this behavior is not acceptable, if nothing else for his next relationship. In order to enact change, one must be able to make the new behavior routine. The old behavior was to read, respond, and delete. The new behavior should be to notify the other partner and they read together and then delete together (and decide if to response is appropriate or not). This action shows that no contact is trying to be maintained and change being attempted and accomplished. He is doing this for himself and his betterment (as the secrecy and straying boundaries are what got him in trouble before) and not for her now.


I have already done this, some random number texted me on my birthday. Just said: Happy Birthday (my name) x
I showed her and she got wild, I truly didn't and still don't know who it was.
But her reaction, it caused a big argument, saying it must be some other chick I was sleeping with. Understandable reaction I guess, but still not one I wish to repeat.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

johnvk72 said:


> I have already done this, some random number texted me on my birthday. Just said: Happy Birthday (my name) x
> I showed her and she got wild, I truly didn't and still don't know who it was.
> But her reaction, it caused a big argument, saying it must be some other chick I was sleeping with. Understandable reaction I guess, but still not one I wish to repeat.


No one wants to repeat things that hurt (that is why the trickle truth happens as well as the lying). It takes time to get over an A, the typical suggested time is 2-5 years. One can't expect miracles over night. Texts like that will trigger (my wife got one the other day and we went through the same thing) and she showed me. I triggered from this and it is to be expected, but I appreciate that she showed me. We were in the car with the kids and she read it to me. We decided how to proceed together, but I can tell you she was ashamed and trying to make it better. 

The s hit the fan when I found out later that she had purposely skipped reading or showing me parts of it until later (as she states that she was embarrassed to read it in front of the kids and I understand that and I was driving so unable to read it), but she chose to act as if nothing was there. We still don't know if this was one of her APs fishing for a connection or not or just someone that got her number by accident. It created an argument between us, but I did assure her that I was glad she showed me and we are working through it. I therefor know first hand what your reservations are. 

You just need to decide to do the right thing and do it for you and your boundaries and morals or do what you want and continue to live the life you have been leading to this point. All you can control and change in this relationship is you, and you have to want to do it for yourself and not to win someone else back. If you do the right things you'll feel better about yourself and have a better self to present to your next partner if it comes to that.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

This seems like a destructive relationship. The quickness with which she had a revenge affair makes me think perhaps she had her affair brewing or ongoing while you were having yours.

My 2 cents ... cut bait. Make arrangements to see your children 50/50 and get away from this woman. Hope you learned your lesson about how destructive cheating can be for the cheater and cheated.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK I now understand that:


you guys were as good as married for just over 3 years
you cheated for some reason (that is not some blameshifting stuff, that you now understand and hopefully she does too ?)
you never really started R properly but in some half-hearted way that she did not agree to
she found somebody new (at a nightclub !!!) - did she go looking for somebody new or was it just chance
she expects you to support her while she explores new relationships
you are happy to do so out of guilt
and all this happening while you live together with your kids
you hope that she will still come back to you
she tells you to shut up when you talk about this stuff and does not appear to have feelings for you

OK at this point you have an unresolved issue with her in that she either wants to R or not - no halfway house here. You need to be prepared to let her go if she does not. You cannot finance her philandering ways from here on. If she does want to R then the usual rules apply - complete disclosure on both sides with timelines, NC whatsoever with OM/W, complete transparency, set and understood boundaries, regular counselling (M and I), some good suggested reading as per this forum etc. If not, then 180 to heal yourself, child custody arrangements, financial separation and maybe exposure (on both sides).


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

This thread reminds me of the movie "Idiocracy"


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Paladin said:


> Look, i understand *your feelings of guilt are preventin you from thinking and acting clearly in this situation*, but as *you've already been told* on a few occasions in this thread, *what she is doing is way out of bounds*. *You are still* technically *married*, and she is actin in a way that is consistent with all the major red flags that come with an affair. *Two wrongs never make a right.* You need to do the hard thing and *stand up for the virtue of what a marriage is supposed to be*. Yes you will come off as a hypocrite and a selfish d-bag, but you will at the very least *show that you have learned something from your own mistakes, and will not put up with a toxic relationship.
> *
> Explain to her that *regardless of how you acted, what she is doing is wrong, and if she continues to be secretive with her phone/facebook/email/anything* and if she continues to communicate with this guy, *you will file for divorce.
> *
> ...


Is it doochebaggery to quote yourself? I've never done it before, so I figured I'd give it a shot. OP I've *bolded*<is that a word?> the *important* stuff, consider it a *redux *if the first post was too long to bother reading.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

johnvk72 said:


> Anyway, turns out he was an idiot, and the last straw was when he was driving like an idiot and almost had an accident with her and my 18! month old daughter in the car!!!!!!
> 
> *I was told this by one of her friends, not by her*. Weird, her best friend actually feels sorry for me, even after what I did.
> 
> ...


If you believe the friend about the reckless car ride, and you believe the friend about dumping other man, then you must also believe the friend about your wife just using you.

If you want to stop being confused, stop paying attention to her words and focus on her actions.

I think any fawning, begging, or doing more than your fair share hurts you more than helps you at this point.

She feels she has you in the bag, thus she is taking you for granted. If you tell her you love her, but can't go on this way, and want to split up if she doesn't change, perhaps she will realize that she doesn't want to lose you.

Needy and clingy and submissive is not usually attractive to women. Strength and confidence is.

Can you develop the attitude that, although you love her and want to save the marriage, that you will be fine without her, too, and actually would find that preferable than being her whipping boy? That your sorry for what happened, but there is a limit to the abuse you can take? And that you are putting 100% in, and if she doesn't start to as well, you are moving on? If you can give her that attitude, it might turn her around. Then again, she might just be done with you.


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