# I'm checking out. Fiancé oblivious.



## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

So I went from loving, doting, gourmet meal on the table, sex kitten, 2 hour bj giving, gift-buying, forgiving, fairly-appreciated girlfriend. But after two years of asking for so little (less porn, more intimacy) and getting even less (thank-you only goes so far), the straw broke and the camel is laying down for a permanent nap.

I went to eating what I want, when I want (leftovers or not), functioning (stopped trying to look hot), barely verbally and emotionally present, disinterested in confrontation or conversation, thoughtless, self-serving, going to bed when he's "napping", guiltless phone-staring partner and the only thing he can say is, "Where's my blowie?" And I'm pretty sure after my snarky reply, I'm probably not even getting asked THAT again.

Basically, I'm doing what my therapist highly recommends for dysfunctional relationships. Mirroring I believe it is called?    

I basically am putting in the minimal I am capable of without being miserable because I might as well be alone. Maybe only 5% more than he is (instead of 95%). And crazy thing is, I'm the only one who seems to notice...or care. 

Anyone else's S.O. oblivious to a MASSIVE shift in relationship effort? This is not who I am or want to be in a partnership, so I know it has an expiration. Dunno if it's vengeful, hopeful that he will notice and change, or necessary to give myself space as part of an exit plan, so don't ask nor hypothesize why. I do know it it damaging to my ego because I know how much more I am capable of contributing. I never want to be "basic."

I am just flummoxed at how little I have to be present before he's going to voice any kind of dissatisfaction. Granted, it's been waning over time. We are going through the motions in therapy, but at this point even the therapist knows how lazy he is. He has a to-do list that the therapist is embarrassed checking in on. 

Curious how many other women had the same experience and what the outcome was. Is it a pointless experiment/punishment/process? Like a lot of women, I'm not good at leaving. Mostly because I hate regret. I even bring more to the relationship financially, so I'm not trapped. I'm fine being alone, but love being in love. I just can't (at 44) seem to find someone with as much to offer or as much effort to expend (one or the other would be nice). 



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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Why not dump him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Wait...

2 hour blowjobs? :surprise:


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Is it a pointless experiment/punishment/process?" Yes, if you're referring to the two-hour blowjob. Two hours? Really?

"Where's my blowie?" That is seriously vomit worthy.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

TheRaconteuse said:


> I'm fine being alone, but love being in love. I just can't (at 44) seem to find someone with as much to offer or as much effort to expend (one or the other would be nice).


Self.

A lot more self-like would be beneficial to your well-being... what is the purpose in continuing to spend time like this?

Self-care is something you are seriously neglecting...


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Wait...
> 
> 2 hour blowjobs? :surprise:


IKR, I'd either refine my tecnique or find a more "sensitive" fiancé.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

kristin2349 said:


> IKR, I'd either refine my tecnique or find a more "sensitive" fiancé.


I had a chuckle at that...:grin2:


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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

Trust me when I say two-hours was by my choice, not his. This should speak to any "tweaks" I need in my technique. It could have been two minutes had we both wanted it to. While it might have been hyperbole to prove a point, I'm really surprised that only one person could get past it to give solid advice. Clearly they aren't strangers to he delicious art of the tease. Sigh.

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Why not dump him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, that advice would apply to anyone posting about any relationship issues. 

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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TheRaconteuse said:


> Yeah, that advice would apply to anyone posting about any relationship issues.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


No, it really wouldn't.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TheRaconteuse said:


> I'm fine being alone, but love being in love. I just can't (at 44) seem to find someone with as much to offer or as much effort to expend (one or the other would be nice).


You're really fine being alone? Doesn't sound like it. 

You can't find someone with as much to offer because you are a GIVER and you therefore incorrectly expect your partner to be a Giver as well. But it doesn't work that way.

When people are dysfunctional Givers (go back and read your first post and add up all the things you did for him), you subconsciously attract USERS. You send out subtle signals that you'll give and give and expect next to nothing in return. I should say, ACCEPT next to nothing in return. And so it goes.

So, when you leave this loser, here's a tip: don't offer anything to the next guys you meet. Don't offer sex for at least three dates. Don't cook him meals. Don't buy him groceries or video games. Don't let him use your car. Don't accept going out to a coffee shop instead of a restaurant (except for the first meet and greet), and for heaven's sake, don't PAY for the meal. See if they stick around. 

Anyone who's still asking you out after three dates might be a keeper.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Wait...
> 
> 2 hour blowjobs? :surprise:


I get em nearly everyday...NOT two hours...cause...damn..

And he hasn't noticed his winning powerball ticket????????

Just...no words
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Self.
> 
> A lot more self-like would be beneficial to your well-being... what is the purpose in continuing to spend time like this?
> 
> Self-care is something you are seriously neglecting...


I agree with this.

Where is your self care? You are neglecting yourself to get a reaction out of your boyfriend? That is counter productive to you own health, well-being, and happiness.

You take care of yourself, because you love yourself, not because you want someone else to be happy.

From what you have posted, your boyfriend doesn't have your back. Your relationship isn't mutual. It is you serving him and him having all the relationship power. That is not healthy. He should be just as eager to please you as you are to please him, but clearly he's not.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> You're really fine being alone? Doesn't sound like it.
> 
> You can't find someone with as much to offer because you are a GIVER and you therefore incorrectly expect your partner to be a Giver as well. But it doesn't work that way.
> 
> When people are dysfunctional Givers (go back and read your first post and add up all the things you did for him), you subconsciously attract USERS.


Frickin Turnera. When are you ever wrong?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

TheRaconteuse said:


> Yeah, that advice would apply to anyone posting about any relationship issues.


Well, not anyone.

Sometimes it's "Why not dump _her_?"

:lol: :rofl:

Seriously, though -- it would seem to apply here.

So why not?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

one perspective was that you were the perfect girlfriend

another is that you were engaging in a series of covert contracts

I don't know if there is an exact dividing line, but you might want to examine whether you were doing things because you truly wanted to do them, or whether you were doing things simply to elicit an expected response from your BF.

if the nature of your relationship was a series of covert contracts, it is going to take major work and a major resetting to change expectations all around.

it's probably not worth it in this relationship. you would probably be better off taking what knowledge you can from this experience and improving in your next relationship.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

TheRaconteuse said:


> I just can't (at 44) seem to find someone with as much to offer or as much effort to expend (one or the other would be nice).


Seriously? You can't find anyone better than your selfish bum of a fiancé?

Edit to add:

Okay, here's some serious advice.

1) Don't marry a guy with a porn addiction.
2) Don't marry a guy who spends more time on their phone than on you.
3) Don't marry a guy who's addicted to video games. Moderation & priority.
4) Hold off on marriage until he changes for at least two years.

Work on yourself. Where would you rank yourself on the looks barometer? Where do you rank him?

Don't do anything for him that you usually do. Just shut the entire valve off. Focus on you and what makes you happy. Go out more. Watch what you eat, join a gym to boost your energy levels. Find activities that you enjoy doing on your own. Do a 180 on him with short & sweet one line responses. Don't initiate conversations with him. If he changes and can keep it up for 2 years, then revisit marriage, but if he continues the way he is for another 3 to 6 months, call off the engagement and move on. On paper, you sound like the perfect girlfriend and fiancé. If he doesn't recognize and appreciate that, he's not worth a divorce over, because you can't change people; they have to want to change themselves.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

"Just dump him/her" isn't much of an answer. Sure dumping a person may be in order, but if nothing changes in the person doing the dumping, there is a good chance of going right back into a similar relationship. There are so really good posts on this thread that would be good to contemplate and try to understand why you would choose a person who didn't seem to really care about you and why you'd spend your life serving someone who doesn't do the same for you.

Healthy relationships are mutual. You have my back and I have yours. We love each other and care for each other without asking for something back. We feel cared for and nurtured by our significant other. That is how a healthy relationship works. If you don't have that, it's not healthy.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

TheRaconteuse said:


> So I went from loving, doting, gourmet meal on the table, sex kitten, 2 hour bj giving, gift-buying, forgiving, fairly-appreciated girlfriend. But after two years of asking for so little less porn, more intimacy) and getting even less (thank-you only goes so far), the straw broke and the camel is laying down for a permanent nap.
> 
> I went to eating what I want, when I want (leftovers or not), functioning (stopped trying to look hot), barely verbally and emotionally present, disinterested in confrontation or conversation, thoughtless, self-serving, going to bed when he's "napping", guiltless phone-staring partner and the only thing he can say is, "Where's my blowie?" And I'm pretty sure after my snarky reply, I'm probably not even getting asked THAT again.
> 
> ...


If you were 24 or 34 ...would you settle? Therein lies your answer.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

What do you want? Are you in love with him?

God forbid don't settle because of your age!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> "Just dump him/her" isn't much of an answer. Sure dumping a person may be in order, but if nothing changes in the person doing the dumping, there is a good chance of going right back into a similar relationship.


I agree. 
What Gus asked is a very good question. If a poster lays out 500 reasons why a person is awful, a good questions is "Why are you still there/Why not just dump him/her?" He made her look at herself, which gave us her defensive and acerbic non-answer.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

What sort of therapist would recommend mirroring lazy, hurtful, using, immature behaviour? 

You are 44, heading into the best years of your life yet you are wasting them on a man that does not cherish you. Get a backbone, get some IC and get a life.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> IKR, I'd either refine my tecnique or find a more "sensitive" fiancé.


A bit of dental work would help 

Mirroring works up to a point, for NormalPeople. NotNormalPeople don't notice it, like they don't notice their own body odor....


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

john117 said:


> A bit of dental work would help
> 
> Mirroring works up to a point, for NormalPeople. NotNormalPeople don't notice it, like they don't notice their own body odor....


Yep I get that it might work in some situations that are minor. OP has a major deadbeat on her hands, no wonder he doesn't notice she has changed for the worse.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Two


hour


blowjobs?


So if I be a insensitive jerk towards the next woman I meet I can get those? That's genius!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

turnera said:


> You're really fine being alone? Doesn't sound like it.
> 
> You can't find someone with as much to offer because you are a GIVER and you therefore incorrectly expect your partner to be a Giver as well. But it doesn't work that way.
> 
> ...


You are correct about me being a giver, but I fail to see how one can't be a dysfunctional giver and also ok being alone. We DO exist, I assure you. I love Swedish Fish, but I certainly can imagine life without ever eating another. I have a child to dote on, college students to mentor, and do enough charity work to keep my heart (and ego) quite stable. Dudes just make me feel desirable. Can't fault me for occasionally wanting to blow a mind or two. 

And the problem really is that I get off too much on giving and leaving men breathless (it's the redhead in me). I've always taken my share of the blame for that (and recognized the selfishness of my inability to accept certain things), but while I gave been trained by various users to never expect reciprocal relationships, I really didn't think the ONLY thing I would attract would be a user. Aren't my odds better than 100/100? Isn't there just a thoughtful, ambitious guy out there that likes to be treated like a king? Or are they extinct?

Plus, while not plenty, I have had a lot of relationships that started out with ZERO giving on my part. This one, for example. I was actually just trying to get back into the dating scene after a little hiatus. Didn't even want a relationship. He begged for it. Talked about locking it down within a few months. I paid for nothing for quite some time, and didn't lay the FULL Brazilian on him until after he ate at the salad bar for a while...if you know what I mean.

Either I'm attracting a more skilled, evolved user OR I'm Frankensteining them into my worst nightmares. Regardless, you're going to have to up your three date put-out/shell-out threshold. It's invalid here on the East Coast. 

Honestly, this one is a finely aged blend of selfish, lazy and immature. But you know how short-sighted women can be.. give him a few weeks with this mouth, and he'll realize he hit the lottery..and CHANGE (big lolz). Oh wait, a dude on this thread said that. My bad (but I thought the same thing). 



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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

MarriedDude said:


> I get em nearly everyday...NOT two hours...cause...damn..
> 
> And he hasn't noticed his winning powerball ticket????????
> 
> ...


In his defense, I'm not always a walk in the park. And I am only his second serious relationship (was overly focused on raising his child instead of dating). I think he'll realize what he lost pretty quickly, but I don't revisit relationships, and he's proud stubborn, so once this is done, it's done.

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> Where is your self care? You are neglecting yourself to get a reaction out of your boyfriend? That is counter productive to you own health, well-being, and happiness.
> 
> ...


Are most men eager to please women? I'm curious. I don't seem to meet many who are. At least not past the six-week mark when the only thing they are impressing is marks in your couch (most of the ones I date, anyway).   

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> one perspective was that you were the perfect girlfriend
> 
> another is that you were engaging in a series of covert contracts
> 
> ...


I don't know what covert contracts are, but I promise to look them up. If you are asking me if I got off on giving because it served me, yes. Was it selfish, yes. I know all of this about my parents whom I could never please to needing constant approval and being told how awesome I am. I am a pleaser/giver for some unhealthy reasons for sure. BUT...BUT...I never expect nor want (nature of the beast) that level of attention/affection back. I understand and accept I wouldn't be comfortable with it.

The question of the post was honestly different than what the thread has evolved to. I don't want to know who I am or why I do what I do. I get me. I don't need to be told he's a jerk (he obviously has some salvageable qualities). I didn't ask if I should leave. I honestly read some amazing, insightful comments on a thread about "checking out." Since this is the first time I haven't just given more and more and more to try and save a relationship, and found myself for the first time giving LESS (and not hating it entirely), the post was really just trying to benchmark and time frame the "checking out" thing as it's new to me.

Why I'm doing it is not up for discussion as it feels equal amounts of a lot of conflicting motives. Leaving is not an option. I'm really wanting to explore how much I can "not give" and be happy. And loved. And accepted. 

In sum, this feels like the right thing to do for ME. I assure you, 5% of my love and energy isn't punishment for any man. Maybe I will learn balance, as I'm unlikely (at 44) to fix the damage of childhood. Especially since I've had pretty good therapy and don't expect to ever be wholly "fixed."

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> Seriously? You can't find anyone better than your selfish bum of a fiancé?
> 
> Edit to add:
> 
> ...


Not sure what you're asking as far as looks (we both can turn heads), but the advice is solid. I have zero interest in marriage until he proposes properly which is another debacle in laziness. Anyway, I'm really just curious about the "checking out" process.

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> "Just dump him/her" isn't much of an answer. Sure dumping a person may be in order, but if nothing changes in the person doing the dumping, there is a good chance of going right back into a similar relationship. There are so really good posts on this thread that would be good to contemplate and try to understand why you would choose a person who didn't seem to really care about you and why you'd spend your life serving someone who doesn't do the same for you.
> 
> Healthy relationships are mutual. You have my back and I have yours. We love each other and care for each other without asking for something back. We feel cared for and nurtured by our significant other. That is how a healthy relationship works. If you don't have that, it's not healthy.


It's more about me...learning me. Dumping might save time, but I always feel figuring yourself out saves you from just repeating old habits. This is my first time "hanging out." Normally I bail or self-sabotage for escape.

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> If you were 24 or 34 ...would you settle? Therein lies your answer.


24 or 34 knowing what I know now or with my then-brains. We've all always been hopeless romantics  

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

Spicy said:


> What do you want? Are you in love with him?
> 
> God forbid don't settle because of your age!


I used to be in love with him. Madly. Maybe even for the first time. Now? Not so sure if I'm on mute or the movie is over  

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I agree.
> What Gus asked is a very good question. If a poster lays out 500 reasons why a person is awful, a good questions is "Why are you still there/Why not just dump him/her?" He made her look at herself, which gave us her defensive and acerbic non-answer.


Actually her defensive answer was because there were 5 posts in a row insinuating I can't suck a ****, and one that while thoughtful, didn't address the OP'S question. No one has, actually. As for acerbic, that's standard. 

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> What sort of therapist would recommend mirroring lazy, hurtful, using, immature behaviour?
> 
> You are 44, heading into the best years of your life yet you are wasting them on a man that does not cherish you. Get a backbone, get some IC and get a life.


Mirroring was a joke. My emojis didn't post, I'm afraid.

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Two
> 
> 
> hour
> ...


He was a sweetheart many moons ago.

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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, it really wouldn't.


Yeah, it kinda could. If you're asking for advice on whether you should leave, chances are you already should have. Oddly, I never asked that, nor for psychoanalysis. I asked specifically about the checking out process. Not whether I should leave.

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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TheRaconteuse said:


> You are correct about me being a giver, but I fail to see how one can't be a dysfunctional giver and also ok being alone.


If you were ok being alone, you would have walked away long ago when you realized YOUR needs were not being met.

It's an issue of self esteem. Or codependency. Or both.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TheRaconteuse said:


> You are correct about me being a giver, but I fail to see how one can't be a dysfunctional giver and also ok being alone. We DO exist, I assure you. I love Swedish Fish, but I certainly can imagine life without ever eating another. I have a child to dote on, college students to mentor, and do enough charity work to keep my heart (and ego) quite stable. Dudes just make me feel desirable. Can't fault me for occasionally wanting to blow a mind or two.


I'll tell you a story. For reasons too complicated to discuss, my DD25 grew up having problem after problem keeping a friend. It's worthy of a movie script, I tell ya. Anyway, all her life, having a 'real friend' was her Achilles heal.

At the same time, SHE KNEW her worth. We waited 10 years to have her,so by the time she came, she was our life. She never had a single doubt that she was loved, wanted, and waited for.

Her only problem was making and keeping (female) friends. Fast forward to college, and she's blown off a dozen guys cos she simply has no time for them. Girlfriends, on the other hand...every girl she met, she bent over backwards to please them. Praying that just ONE of them would want to be her friend. She gave money, rides in her car, gave pencils, did homework....anything she could think of to keep the girls hanging around her. 

Meanwhile, she never had time for any guys. She KNEW she could get any guy she wanted; she had no doubt. 

Do you see my point? The one area in your life where you have self doubt, fear, expectation of failure...THAT is where you become a Giver. Your fear of being abandoned, ignore, not wanted...that's what causes you to become a Giver.

In my DD25's case, it wasn't men. She left swaths of men in her wake. It was female friends.

In her junior year, with no real friends in sight, I told her just what I told you: don't offer to give stuff, don't give money, don't do favors, don't give rides...and see who is still around. THOSE people just like you, and aren't expecting to USE you.

Just reverse the issue - her with girlfriends, you with men - and use the same advise. Psychology says it works.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

TheRaconteuse said:


> Are most men eager to please women? I'm curious. I don't seem to meet many who are. At least not past the six-week mark when the only thing they are impressing is marks in your couch (most of the ones I date, anyway).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


There are lots of men who are eager to please women. AND a lot of them are single, as women view them as boring, somewhat too eager to please wusses.

When I was single, I had women in my college classes call me to come give them a ride home from parties. They all told me the same thing, "I trust you to not take advantage of me when I'm drunk".

Took me a while to figure out that when they "trust" you, they in no way want to f--- you, EVER. You are the "big/little brother", or just a friend. Ask em out on a date, listen to the snickers.

I guess the point of my late night rant is to ask, was your BF ever into doing nice things & being present in the relationship with you? Or have you just gotten tired of his once attractive bad boy snottiness?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

TheRaconteuse said:


> Yeah, it kinda could. If you're asking for advice on whether you should leave, chances are you already should have. Oddly, I never asked that, nor for psychoanalysis. I asked specifically about the checking out process. Not whether I should leave.


If you make a post with a bunch of details and comments about leaving, you are opening the thread up to address what you posted. You talk about what you therapist said and your feelings, etc., but then complain about being psychoanalyzed. I don't know what you expect, but what you got is based on what you posted, then you complain about the answers that were based on what you posted.



TheRaconteuse said:


> So I went from loving, doting, gourmet meal on the table, sex kitten, 2 hour bj giving, gift-buying, forgiving, fairly-appreciated girlfriend. But after two years of asking for so little less porn, more intimacy) and getting even less (thank-you only goes so far), the straw broke and the camel is laying down for a permanent nap.
> 
> I went to eating what I want, when I want (leftovers or not), functioning (stopped trying to look hot), barely verbally and emotionally present, disinterested in confrontation or conversation, thoughtless, self-serving, going to bed when he's "napping", guiltless phone-staring partner and the only thing he can say is, "Where's my blowie?" And I'm pretty sure after my snarky reply, I'm probably not even getting asked THAT again.
> 
> ...


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

TheRaconteuse said:


> Are most men eager to please women? I'm curious. I don't seem to meet many who are. At least not past the six-week mark when the only thing they are impressing is marks in your couch (most of the ones I date, anyway).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


This says more about you than men in general. There is a whole world full of great men out there, if you are attracting the losers then some introspection is in order.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheRaconteuse said:


> It's more about me...learning me. Dumping might save time, but I always feel figuring yourself out saves you from just repeating old habits. This is my first time "hanging out." Normally I bail or self-sabotage for escape.


You are right that figuring yourself out saves you from repeating old habits. You say that this is the first time that you have hung out in a bad relationship. So what have you learned from staying in a bad relationship? what have you learned about selfish men? (applies to selfish women too)

From reading your posts, I can see a few lessons that I'm hoping you are learning.

1) If the guy is lazy, selfish, abusive (add other bad things if you wish), they are not going to change any time soon, probably never. What you see is what you get.

2) Sticking it out in a bad relationship does not make it get better. It only gets worse.

3) You cannot fix another person. The only person you can fix is yourself. So work on yourself. Stop trying to fix him, or somehow magically entice him into being you need. Move on.

4) The longer you stay in a bad relationship, the worse the relationship gets. So this is a lot better today than it will be 2 years, 4 years, 10 years down the road. If you don't want to be miserable for the rest of your life... run. Get out of this relationship.

5) Staying in a bad relationship does not make you a giver. It makes you an enabler. get the book Co-Dependent No More. Co-dependency is actually a form of control. You give up your own needs and concentrate on the other person, trying to find the magic pill that will make them better. Thus is makes them the bad guy and you the saint (in your own mind).

I could go on, but those are a few things you should be learning here. What do you do? Get out of the bad relationship. Then read the co-dependency book, read some books on setting boundaries. And then take care of yourself. Better to be by yourself than in a bad relationship.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

TheRaconteuse said:


> Maybe I will learn balance, as I'm unlikely (at 44) to fix the damage of childhood.


The balance I needed wasn't found and didn't begin until I was 44...

I understand you are trying to minimize your giving and are testing to how far you can go before things fracture, if you could encapsulate your situation, and turn it into one question at the end of all you are facing, is it really "how little can I give and remain where I am"? 

A 5% foothold sounds like a fragile balancing act...


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

You're not a perfect girlfriend at all, in fact you're terrible.

I say this with the greatest respect because for the life of me why would anyone be on their knees/lying down giving a blowjob for two hours and getting zero in return and think that it's being perfect.

Do you live in a small town without any males? Why are you settling for this jerk?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm glad you clarified the two hour blowjob was hyperbole.

You seem to be doing all these things to get your needs met. Covert contract. Out of all of your giving, the only thing he inquires about is the blowjob. That tells you that he doesn't value the other things you do. They aren't meeting his needs. They don't speak to his love language. Your love language is words of affirmation. Look up the 5 love languages and see if they resonate.

There is a man out there who would appreciate all that you do and also meet your need for appreciation. The guy you're with isn't him. Maybe he could be with communication.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> I'm glad you clarified the two hour blowjob was hyperbole.


Well, she does live up to her name with being skilled in relating stories and anecdotes interestingly.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This thread grew very quickly, so I'm catching up. To some of the OP's questions.

Yes - unfortunately there are people who are that oblivious. I know one, and I'm married to someone who is nearly that bad. I sometimes wonder if its sort of a mild from of Aspberger. 

OTOH, you have to be sure that what you are doing for him are things that *he* cares about. For example food isn't important to me. While I appreciate that my wife makes nice dinners, if she wanted to save time and make something instant, it wouldn't matter at all. OTOH, sex matters a lot to me, but not at all to her. She would be happy if we never had sex again - even though she sort of wants it now and then. Does your fiance care about the things you were doing and then stopped? Is it possible that there is something else that matters to him.

(I'm not in any way trying to place blame for this on you - if he hasn't told you what he wants, it may be very difficult for you to guess. Maybe he doesn't want anything. Maybe he is just selfish and expects that you will go back to what you were doing).


You asked if most men are interested in pleasing women. I have no idea of the statistics, but some are. You say how much you enjoy leaving men breathless. There are men who feel exactly the same way about women, I do, given a choice of physically enjoying sex myself of having my partner enjoy, I'd prefer for my partner to enjoy. Imagine if you were with someone for whom their greatest joy was to leave you half unconscious with pleasure. Sadly many of those men will be putting all of their effort into trying to please women who don't care.

My general advice is not to stay with someone who doesn't make you happy. You are not married, nothing prevents you from leaving this man. It sounds like there are men who would be a much better match. You sound like a wonderful giving person, find someone who will appreciate you and will want to do the same in return - not as a "trade" but because they just want to see you smile.


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

I've seen this sort of thing before. One person goes ALL OUT to impress a potential suitor, completely spoils them in nearly all ways. Then, after a few months the suitor gets into a comfort level and becomes a little lazy or lackadaisical, with no real motivation to change. Sometimes he/she doesn't even recognize that something is amiss. He/she just assumes that the relationship has evolved more to routine, and that the person who did all the spoiling was just trying to impress him/her, and now they are showing their true self. Assuming that it is communicated that something is amiss, when he/she does try to change, he/she doesn't know exactly what it is they are "supposed" to do. His/her changes inherently are never really "enough" to please the person that spoiled him/her in the first place. When he/she senses this, he/she either does so half-heartedly or not at all. He/she likely will never change "enough" to be the person the original "spoiler" wanted him/her to be.

This is where self-preservation in starting a new relationship comes into play. It's okay to have passion, and a "want to" please your suitor, but you can't place all your cards on the table at once, and then go back and say "I only did this to show you what I will do for you if you do 'this' for me" after the fact, and expect him/her to change into something they're not. Apparently, there was a communication breakdown somewhere along the way that was never resolved.

I would advise the OP to not fall into this line of thinking, not taking care of herself, not doing the things she used to do just to see if he notices. I would be more inclined to communicate what it is that needs changing, that it IS a deal-breaker, and give him a time for adjustment. If he still doesn't do what needs to be done you have the answer you need as to whether it is worth investing more time and feeling into. It's unhealthy for you to not take care of yourself either way. Be yourself, whomever that might be, and if he isn't willing to reciprocate it, then do the 180 and detach yourself from the relationship enough that you are ready and willing to move on. I'm assuming you are willing to move on if he doesn't change?

There are a lot of good men out there who would appreciate a woman that will do what you do. To think otherwise is short-sighted, and will leave you feeling resentment toward men. That is not conducive to a healthy outlook on any future relationship. You may want to read up on love languages to see if what you read rings any bells. I would be willing to bet they do.

For a giving type of person that you seem to be, I sense a little overcompensation for some emotional baggage you bring with you. That's not necessarily a bad thing because we all have it. I think it can cloud your judgment and expectations, though. Some people think a marriage is a 50/50 proposition. I don't think that is the case at all. It should be 100/100, or very near it, for a marriage to work forever. The perception of 100/100 is different for different people, and it usually boils down to love languages.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

"covert contract" means you do something for somebody else with the hidden expectation that they then do something for you.

you don't inform them that you've made this secret "deal" in your mind, but you still blame them when they fail to uphold the bargain you've imagined.

if you keep upping the ante with all of these outlandish gestures, you could very well be engaging in covert contracts.

you expect the guy to "match you" in outlandish overtures, when he doesn't really expect anything of the sort from you and doesn't have any intention of returning the "favor."


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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

This was tremendously helpful. Thanks. BTW--He won't read "The Love Languages" or any other book I suggest, but I have told him mine, to no apparent avail.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

TheRaconteuse said:


> This was tremendously helpful. Thanks. BTW--He won't read "The Love Languages" or any other book I suggest, but I have told him mine, to no apparent avail.


Perhaps he would be willing to take the on-line quiz. If he is too lazy to do that, to hell with him. He could easily be replaced with a potted plant.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Perhaps he would be willing to take the on-line quiz. If he is too lazy to do that, to hell with him. He could easily be replaced with a potted plant.


Do potted plants respond when you give them a BJ?


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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Do potted plants respond when you give them a BJ?


Yes, but anything over 10 minutes causes them to wilt. 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

TheRaconteuse said:


> Yes, but anything over 10 minutes causes them to wilt.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


Cucumbers don't wilt. Don't ask me how I know.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Do potted plants respond when you give them a BJ?


Try it out on a Venus Flytrap and get back to us.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TheRaconteuse said:


> This was tremendously helpful. Thanks. BTW--He won't read "The Love Languages" or any other book I suggest, but I have told him mine, to no apparent avail.


Why should he? All his needs are being met.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

TheRaconteuse said:


> Like a lot of women, I'm not good at leaving. Mostly because I hate regret. I even bring more to the relationship financially, so I'm not trapped. I'm fine being alone, but love being in love. I just can't (at 44) seem to find someone with as much to offer or as much effort to expend (one or the other would be nice).


Ugh. This guy just brings NOTHING to the table.

LOL...getting his type to read a self help book about "Love Languages" is ludicrous. You might as well ask him to scale Mt. Everest instead.

You're stuck with a dud. Why in the hell you'd marry someone like this is beyond me. But if you DO choose to do it, get a *pre-nup* - you're the only one who stands to lose anything (over and above what you've ALREADY lost, which is *you*).


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

So apparently you gave your all and he didn't care; so you gave him nothing and he still doesn't care. Must be love keeping you together.


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## TheRaconteuse (Aug 2, 2016)

breeze said:


> So apparently you gave your all and he didn't care; so you gave him nothing and he still doesn't care. Must be love keeping you together.


The giving nothing is a recently new development. Sex has stopped now, so I'm expecting the coffin polishers to be along any time now. 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

How old is the BF and what's his past relationship status? Has he been married before?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

He has done you a tremendous favor by showing you who he really is and how your marriage would be before you got married! Get out of this.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for the clarifications.

The minute you stopped and he stopped the discussion should have been who is moving out. I won't mention the posters name, but there is a man right now who would LOVE 1/4 of what you said you give your bf from his wife. There are many men out there who would love a woman like you even without the 2 hour bj. As someone said earlier fix you and your picker and you'll find one. Yes, even at 44.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

TheRaconteuse said:


> So I went from .....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


What was your selection process?


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> "Is it a pointless experiment/punishment/process?" Yes, if you're referring to the two-hour blowjob. Two hours? Really?
> 
> "Where's my blowie?" That is seriously vomit worthy.


*Also consider that these things were the way she was selling herself!!!*

She was going into the market saying this is what she wanted to be doing and what she saw was good to do in the relationship, and she was happy enough with him , to do these things with him.

So certainly see why he'd wonder who swapped out his wonderful girlfriend and put a boring demand pod-person in her place.
Can see why he thinks he's been "baited and switched" on.

Did she give any indication that the behavior was only for a short time or subject to a growing IOU that he would need to catch up on?
How exactly was this _communicated_ to him?


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## Purple*Orchid (Aug 7, 2016)

People don't change. Change is too hard for most. If it happens it usually very short lived and it reverts back to the same song and dance.

This tactic doesn't work. He hasn't even noticed.


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