# Accsess denied



## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

Hi all,

I'm new. Long time lurker, first time poster.

I just need a little advice.

My husband and I have been together 12 years. We are pretty sexually compatible (minus a few hang-ups, but whatever) I denied sex when the kids were little (1-2 years, we have 2, 10 year old son, 6 year old daughter) but have tried my best to be open and willing ALWAYS, a sex is super important for him (and me, but again, I have some hang-ups. Hubby gets upset if I can't finish from vaginal only and it makes me feel awkward.. but that's another story) When I say denied.. I mean once a week is a LONG time for us.

Anyways... here is the deal. Sometimes he denies me "I'm tired" or "I don't feel like it" etc. OK, no big deal, try again later (try not to get feelings hurt, hey, we all can't be ready all the time) BUT.. and here is the BIG BUT...

If I do the same, he gets visually upset, won't talk to me, pouts, etc. 

I feel he denies me more than I do him, but I don't say anything. I'm lost, if I bring up that I tried with him "the other day" he brings up how he WAITED FOREVER when the kids were little, or how he lost his mojo and I didn't take him up on it when he was younger and now it's gone(BS.. he's 30) 

WHAT DO I DO? I don't want to get upset, I just want to fix it.

He is very sexually spoiled BTW, 1-2 BJ's a week, and usually always during foreplay, and sex 3ish times a week not counting BJ's (sorry if it's too graphic) 

I guess I'm asking how to stop feeling guilty and inadequate about not giving it to him enough.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

He needs to grow up and realize that you are not a machine. When my wife turns me down, I do have a problem with it. However, I need to learn this myself and take it all in stride. The way I figure it, if I handle rejection with dignity and self control WITHOUT getting upset, my wife will be that much more impressed and be even more attracted to me.

Easier said than done, but worth the effort.

No pain, no gain.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sounds like it's time for marriage counseling, and stand up for yourself. If he doesn't acknowledge the frequency and denials differential, perhaps keep a log for a month and bring it out when he complains again. He needs to up his game substantially if he think PiV is going to get you off routinely. He does sound spoiled, childish, and uninformed.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> Sounds like it's time for marriage counseling, and stand up for yourself. If he doesn't acknowledge the frequency and denials differential, perhaps keep a log for a month and bring it out when he complains again. He needs to up his game substantially if he think PiV is going to get you off routinely. He does sound spoiled, childish, and uninformed.


I don't know about marriage counseling, that feels a bit extreme... what I was looking for is advice as to how to pose the situation to him in a way he doesn't feel threatened (like I'm attacking him) I love him very much, I don't feel "squashed" by him at all.. please don't take it that way.

I also would like to point out every story has 2 sides.. so playing devil's advocate would be helpful... not to sound wishy-washy, I just am not here to bash him.. just to gather some advice from those who may have the same situation at play.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sarantonio said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new. Long time lurker, first time poster.
> 
> ...


No lets talk about this now and for a very important reason. Since your husband is operating under false assumptions on penetrative sex and the female orgasm, it underscores how he is also operating under fals assumptions that your post partum denying caused him to lose his "mojo!"

IOW, your husband is full of sh!t!

Facts: 

1. 70% of women do not orgasm via vaginal sex and can only orgasm via clitoral stimulation.
2. There is no such thing as mojo and a man in his 30's, baring other medical problems, should be able to perform penetrative sex several times per week.





> If I do the same, he gets visually upset, won't talk to me, pouts, etc.


And how do you respond to his pouting and silent treatment? Do you ever give him the silent treatment?



> I feel he denies me more than I do him, but I don't say anything. I'm lost, if I bring up that I tried with him "the other day" he brings up how he WAITED FOREVER when the kids were little, or how he lost his mojo and I didn't take him up on it when he was younger and now it's gone(BS.. he's 30)
> 
> WHAT DO I DO? I don't want to get upset, I just want to fix it.
> 
> ...


Why don't you want to get upset? What happens if you get upset? Is your husband the only one allowed to get upset? You do realize that the more you cater to his pouting silent treatment the more often it will happen, right?


You should start keeping track of the times you have sex and who initiated, the times when he initiates and is denied, the times when you initiate and are denied.

In terms of regretting the lost opportunities of the past when you were post partum (BTW extremely common for a woman's libido to just disappear and stay gone for many months after child birth. Think of it as natures way of allowing the woman's body a chance to fully heal before another pregnancy.) you have apologized yes? You have taken measures to not behave that way again, yes? You have asked for his forgiveness and he has given it, yes? Then the past is over and revisiting to reblame is mothing more than manipulation. 

Your husband is manipulating you with his denials, his blaming you for his loss of libido, for insisting your body orgasm through penetrative sex (magic d!ck syndrome!) through continuing to bring up a past that should have been put to bed two years ago.

How do you deal with this?

Tell him to grow the hell up!


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Based on what you've posted, it sounds like your husband has a lot of lingering resentment over the period when you first had kids.

he obviously is not handling this resentment well. he seems to believe he has a license to "repay" you for what he believes you put him through.

there are two different paths here.

(1) you could say it's just his problem. he should just get over it and stop being childish. he should realize he has it pretty good now and forget about all of the past stuff. this is actually what I would tell him if he was here presenting his problems. however, he is not here so I think there is an even chance this approach will go no where. he doesn't believe it is just his problem and, because you are on opposite sides of this, you are unlikely to convince him he's wrong.

(2) acknowledge why he feels resentment and try to get to the bottom of it. this means that you take responsibility for failing to meet his needs in the past. in turn, he should take responsibility for his childish behavior today. this path will require you to swallow your pride a bit (not saying you have excesive pride, but most people don't like to admit they may have screwed up). don't look at this as a case of, well, he should have understood what I was going through and it's his problem if he doesn't get it. He feels the same way toward you. somebody has to take the first step toward reconciliation and since you are here looking to work it out, you should take that step.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Or, you could both stop the no's with an excuse and change it to a not now but let's reschedule for tomorrow or the next day. Throw in an I love you.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Stop spoiling him.

Instead, educate him on how your sexuality actually works.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

anonmd said:


> Or, you could both stop the no's with an excuse and change it to a not now but let's reschedule for tomorrow or the next day. Throw in an I love you.


and if either of you gives a rain check, always honor it when it is cashed in-- no exceptions.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

There is an old story about animal training that might apply. A cat one day was very hungry. It tried rubbing and purring it's owner on the leg while they were in the kitchen where it's food was kept. After being ignored it wraped it's paws around the owners leg and bite the owner's calf. The cat got kicked and chased out the room. The owner returned to the kitchen and immediately put food out for the cat. WHAT DID THE CAT LEARN?!?

As to the organism issue. It may be the result of his insecurity. If he can't cutnit for you, the next guy might. 

Understand that these two points are not about objective facts. They are about perception only.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

To clarify my point, what lesson did your husband learn from your dry spell. Understand that period was not your fault, and sometimes wives should aways keep a 2x4 handy.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> (2) acknowledge why he feels resentment and try to get to the bottom of it. this means that you take responsibility for failing to meet his needs in the past. in turn, he should take responsibility for his childish behavior today. this path will require you to swallow your pride a bit (not saying you have excesive pride, but most people don't like to admit they may have screwed up). don't look at this as a case of, well, he should have understood what I was going through and it's his problem if he doesn't get it. He feels the same way toward you. somebody has to take the first step toward reconciliation and since you are here looking to work it out, you should take that step.


This is what I was looking for, I try this, but, yes.. sometimes my pride gets in the way. Instead of "I'm sorry for the past denial, I'll do better" it comes out "I's sorry for the past denial, but I'm trying to do better, don't you see that??" UGH. Most likely a wrong approach


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I sort of agree and sort of don't agree with much of the advice. I will provide my perspective, which is a little different.

As to the PIV expecting you to finish, he needs to learn the facts of life and after all these years of marriage he should have.

As to the acting badly if denied. My suggestion is a bit different. I was in a real multi-year sex starved marriage where my wife really hurt me emotionally. I identify with PTSD on this to some extent, but in a very very mild way. If my wife backslides and we go without sex for over week (even if there are great excusesl like we got back from a Europe vacation, she was jet lagged, then got sick, then feel behind in her job and had to work late and weekends), it is really hard not to feel all the old emotional scares being ripped open. 

If she has good obvious reasons, I will bite my tongue, but it still hurts and frightens me, because of where we were and how hard it was to save our marriage.

What I have told my wife is that if I initiate or she feels she should but just can't, then I have asked her to use my two primary love languages touch and praise (Chapman's 5 languages of love book) and hold me in her arms, tell me what a good man I am and how much she loved me because of that, then tell me that I had better get a good nights sleep as she has plans for me either in the morning or the next night and she expects me to at my best. Or if it is something more long term like she is sick, then tell me that she has plans for me as soon as she feels better and she hopes that will be within a couple days.

The difference is that the "Denial" isn't a denial, but her saying I want to do this with you, just not right now, but at the following time I will so you get yourself ready for it.

This is a whole different dynamic that I can handle much easier.

Good luck.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

UMP said:


> He needs to grow up and realize that you are not a machine. When my wife turns me down, I do have a problem with it. However, I need to learn this myself and take it all in stride. The way I figure it, if I handle rejection with dignity and self control WITHOUT getting upset, my wife will be that much more impressed and be even more attracted to me.
> 
> Easier said than done, but worth the effort.
> 
> No pain, no gain.


But it will never lead to more frequent sex...Trust me on this one...


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Sarantonio said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new. Long time lurker, first time poster.
> 
> ...



Congrats being married 12 years.:smile2:

And you have two beautiful children.:smile2:


Sounds like your hubby is a high sex drive "HD" man. That means he could have sex almost every day and multiple times even.

Sounds like you have a healthy sex drive, and are more average, maybe 3x week?


Both of you take the 5 love languages quiz and then compare the results to each other afterwards. You will be surprised at the results.

Home | The 5 Love Languages® | Improving Millions of Relationships? One Language at a Time.


Its understandable why you weren't into sex much the first 1 - 2 years after having the kids. Your hormones need to naturally return to their norm and your focus is on your babies. Totally understandable.

Most women only have orgasms from oral and not penetration.

You could use a small silver bullet vibrator on yourself while he gives you oral at the same time. You will have killer orgasms every time.

Sounds like he is a bit spoiled in the bedroom. You are to have sex when he's in the mood but when you're in the mood, he's tired and maybe later??? Not cool. I would kill to have a wifee that initiates sex and often.

You give him 1 - 2 BJ's a week? WOW. He is spoiled. I get a BJ maybe once every 1 - 2 months.

If his sex drive has dropped because he is getting older, have him take L - Arginine powder (10g) with a small amount of water just before he goes to bed. This will raises his human growth hormone levels while he sleeps. He will usually wake up hard and in the mood and his sex drive will increase.


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## depressedandexhausted (Aug 24, 2015)

I have no added advice to give, but jesus. If most of us married men got even half of what he is getting there would be a lot less issues. Man, I envy what he is getting.

Not that I am trying to sound creepy lol.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

How often were you intimate during the 2 yrs after birth of each child? 1x week/month?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sarantino,

This is what M2 does. Either says:
1. Lets connect tomorrow. (and she means that, it isn't an empty promise)
Or
2. I will totally rock your world tomorrow (and she does) 


And the way this works is simple. I don't interrogate her about why. It doesn't matter why. She doesn't want to right now. And that is ok. 

And she doesn't have to make up silly white lies to protect my ego. If M2 says she has a headache , she really does have a headache. 



QUOTE=Sarantonio;13719298]I don't know about marriage counseling, that feels a bit extreme... what I was looking for is advice as to how to pose the situation to him in a way he doesn't feel threatened (like I'm attacking him) I love him very much, I don't feel "squashed" by him at all.. please don't take it that way.

I also would like to point out every story has 2 sides.. so playing devil's advocate would be helpful... not to sound wishy-washy, I just am not here to bash him.. just to gather some advice from those who may have the same situation at play.[/QUOTE]


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The getting upset if you can't orgasm through vaginal is problematic. It suggests a guy who watches a lot of porn and has a distorted view of female sexual response. Much porn is about men pounding and otherwise putting forth no effort while continuing to to take. Very selfish.

Is he a regular porn consumer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

He needs to learn your needs. How to please a woman.

You denied sex when the kids were little? Whoa!!!! Could be a long term problem festering here.
Sex is important to a marriage. 

Sounds like you both need some help.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> But it will never lead to more frequent sex...Trust me on this one...


It has, for me.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

I'll try to answer everything. When the bambini were tiny it was like 1xx/ 8-9 days.He used to watch a lot of porn, but I don't think he is anymore after I told him " you want me to watch a bunch of hung naked dudes? It ain't real, bruh" ( he could hide it... But I doubt it) he has always had a hang up on his size, which is ridiculous, its on the larger side of average, someone before me messed him up I think.. We have done the 5 love languages test, we have the same top 3 in different order. I feel like it is a "he wants it only when he wants it" deal and that's what upsets me. I have talked to him and he said he'll try harder to see my side, we'll see. 

He doesn't like it when I touch myself (with him, we both agree masturbation doesn't fit in our marriage unless one is out of town, sick, etc.) So I dunno, I want to let him know that he is enough for me, but I also can't get it always through Penetration alone (sometimes) but I think he takes it that way... And no, he won't read anything, he absolutely LOATHES reading (long story/messed up schooling stuff)

I think I covered it all..


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

You are still apologizing for period of lower libido after child birth.

You feel guilty about not being able to have orgasm through PIV alone.

You suffer your rejections from your husband in silence.

you have to suffer through your husband's childlish pouting when he gets rejected.

You are worried how to communicate with your husband so he does not get upset.

You are not allowed to masturbate.

Your husband refuses to get educated about sex and female sexuality.

your husband wants sex on his terms only.


Do you have anything to say in your marriage? Or you walk around apologizing all the time?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

O. M. G! What?




Sarantonio said:


> I'll try to answer everything. When the bambini were tiny it was like 1xx/ 8-9 days.He used to watch a lot of porn, but I don't think he is anymore after I told him " you want me to watch a bunch of hung naked dudes? It ain't real, bruh" ( he could hide it... But I doubt it) he has always had a hang up on his size, which is ridiculous, its on the larger side of average, someone before me messed him up I think.. We have done the 5 love languages test, we have the same top 3 in different order. I feel like it is a "he wants it only when he wants it" deal and that's what upsets me. I have talked to him and he said he'll try harder to see my side, we'll see.
> 
> *He doesn't like it when I touch myself (with him, we both agree masturbation doesn't fit in our marriage unless one is out of town, sick, etc.)* So I dunno, I want to let him know that he is enough for me, but I also can't get it always through Penetration alone (sometimes) but I think he takes it that way... And no, he won't read anything, he absolutely LOATHES reading (long story/messed up schooling stuff)
> 
> I think I covered it all..



So, not only does his not understand that 70% of women canNOT orgasm via penetration...you're also not allowed to masturbate?


Anon pink will return once her smelling salts have arrived...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I didn't see this post before I posted above. Just lemme do...one...



WandaJ said:


> You are still apologizing for period of lower libido after child birth.
> 
> You feel guilty about not being able to have orgasm through PIV alone.
> 
> ...


There. 

A-frickin-men!


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Help him find your clit. That is all.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm sorry, but most people learn what they like first through masturbation. If you aren't allowed to do that how are you supposed to tell him what you like or even know what you like?


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## Eastcoasting (Apr 21, 2015)

Sarantonio, I do not think this question was asked, but does he go down on you? I keep hearing about BJs and such but I am not hearing if spends time between your legs.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

I really would hope that this doesn't turn into a giant "Down with the man! Grab your pitchforks! You need to toughen up, woman!" post..
I truly despise man-bashing. 

He prefers I don't masturbate, yes, because he would rather take care of that himself, just as I prefer he doesn't, masturbation doesn't feel fit for a marriage, one of the reasons I got married was so I didn't have to masturbate... I have someone to sleep with that I feel as comfortable around as I do myself. 

He always tries to get me off, he uses his hand during penetration. He prefers I don't use mine (hand) because HE wants to do that FOR ME. 

My initial post was written in a bit of annoyance, so bear with me. I'm sorry if I came off like I don't have a voice in this union. I do. And it's a BIG one.. I just choose not to use it often. I'm not too pushy 

And, no, he needs to go down more often.... I honestly think he doesn't like to, and I don't want to feel like I'm making him do something he doesn't like. 

I like to give head, and he doesn't ask for anal (often..lol) it's a win-win!


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

You were upset about it, we commiserate and say you being upset is justified, and it's man bashing. You have a sexual mismatch. You want see more often than he does and his PIV/manual technique of "wanting to take care of that himself" isn't always working. 

Either you tell him and try and work on it, or live with the status quo. But you need to be okay with accepting the idea it's not working rather than feel more compelled to defend him.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

Starstarfish said:


> You were upset about it, we commiserate and say you being upset is justified, and it's man bashing. You have a sexual mismatch. You want see more often than he does and his PIV/manual technique of "wanting to take care of that himself" isn't always working.
> 
> Either you tell him and try and work on it, or live with the status quo. But you need to be okay with accepting the idea it's not working rather than feel more compelled to defend him.



I know.. It's yt another thing I'm working on.. I'm wishy washy


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Are you both religious? That's why masturbation is a big no?


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

i'm so glad you clarified. i was all amped up by the end of this. not ALLOWED masturbation? upset over no orgasms from piv? oh the horror. But i think i see now that these are maybe smaller issues, not all the time issues. I see your point too, he doesn't need to be vilified, but if i had only read the first post, i probably would have joined right in with my pitchfork : /

after your last post. i think the only issue i take is with the pouting when you say no. that has a manipulative feel. i feel like controlling tendencies like this are destructive to a marriage. and that's what the pouting is. it's him trying to change your mind, or guilt you into sex. I also like the suggestions that several other people have, where they don't say no, they say, not yet instead, and reschedule for the next day or whenever. I think there's not a lot of instances where a flat no for your partner is a healthy option. Maybe you two could discuss this. i would go ahead and discuss the sulking too, when you are calm and not in the moment.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> i'm so glad you clarified. i was all amped up by the end of this. not ALLOWED masturbation? upset over no orgasms from piv? oh the horror. But i think i see now that these are maybe smaller issues, not all the time issues. I see your point too, he doesn't need to be vilified, but if i had only read the first post, i probably would have joined right in with my pitchfork : /
> 
> after your last post. i think the only issue i take is with the pouting when you say no. that has a manipulative feel. i feel like controlling tendencies like this are destructive to a marriage. and that's what the pouting is. it's him trying to change your mind, or guilt you into sex. I also like the suggestions that several other people have, where they don't say no, they say, not yet instead, and reschedule for the next day or whenever. I think there's not a lot of instances where a flat no for your partner is a healthy option. Maybe you two could discuss this. i would go ahead and discuss the sulking too, when you are calm and not in the moment.





WandaJ said:


> Are you both religious? That's why masturbation is a big no?



We are religious, but we don't frown upon masturbation. It's just something that glfeels "wastful" not sharing that with you're partner.

Sixty eight.. I appreciate this response. I do need to start calling him out on his pouting. I don't think he is doing it to try to get his way, I think he is genuinely disappointed and doesn't handle it well. Lol.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You still haven't answered why you don't want to get upset. You avoided that question as you posted some nonsense about man bashing. You know, nothing pisses me off more than being accused of man bashing as a result of pointing out inequalities within a relationship.

Okay, I get it, you love him and as such you defend him. It's no skin off my back if you willingly wear a chastity belt as he denies you orgasms. 

But as some point you really need to ask yourself why it's okay for him to get upset, but not you. I can already hear you thinking how it doesn't do anyone any good to have both spouses upset and someone has to be calm. Yeah yeah yeah. Really, why is he allowed to get upset when you offer a rain check, but you avoid getting upset when his sexual expectations have the maturity level of a 17 year old? And...as if that isn't enough, the saving all my loving for you bit...okay I could be super okay with that too but if that's what you each want from each other, than isn't it totally his role to find out HOW to help you to orgasm rather than just demand that you do it?

You may now go back to your regularly scheduled session of invalidating yourself and minimizing his role.

Not man bashing, this is ignorance bashing. 

Enabling too.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

does this have anything to do with your other thread, the EA?


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

Ugh. I'm not having an EA. I wouldn't consider 2 non sexual conversations with the opposite sex that my husband knows about an EA.

And I'm working on it, marriage is work. 
I do get upset, but I don't fly off the handle, I was trying to gain insight as to pose some suggestions on how to have him understand without making him feel inadequate.

But thank you for your insight.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

You said sex once every 8-9 days. For how long did you with hold from him like this? I would be resentful as hell! May be the problem with him, still holding on to the resentment.

My wife once said "we just did it the other day" that was 7-8 days prior. I was passive+agressive and When I broke I dumped years of pent up resentment in her lap. P/A no more....she had to adjust to that.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

At what point is once a week "withholding." I think this modern perception with all sorts of terms and labels justifies poor behavior in some cases and just unfairly shames people in others.


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## Muse1976 (Apr 25, 2015)

For a couple that have sex everyday, once a week would be "withholding".
For a couple that have sex once a month, once a week is a sexpaloosa.
Different strokes for different folks. Maybe it's perspective?
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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