# Slamming doors at 11:00 pm



## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

As they used to say on the Underdog Show... "Looks like this is the end."

Last night, my husband was spoiling for a fight. I had gotten up at 5:00 am, worked until 4:00, drove him to the next state to buy new rims for his car (after I already spend $800 on his car this week), and got home at 10:00 pm. I was exhausted, and had to get up at 5:00 am to go to work today. He wanted to fight. I didn't. 

At 10:30, I told him that I was exhausted, kissed him goodnight, and went to bed. Less than five minutes later, he was in the bedroom letting me know in no uncertain terms that he was not pleased that I didn't want to stay up and finish our "conversation." He stormed through the house, in and out of our bedroom, slamming doors and throwing things around. Mind you, our 9 year old son was with us on our little road trip, and had just gone to bed at 10:00. Thankfully, I think he slept through the whole tirade.

It must have been around 11:00 when he stormed back into our bedroom, stated venomously, "I'm SORRY if I'm disturbing your SLEEP! I'm leaving!" Four more slamming doors, and he got in the car and left. I don't know where he went, or when he got home. He was sleeping when I left to come to work at 6:00 this morning. 

He hasn't spoken to me today. I've received a few very curt, businesslike emails regarding our upcoming move, but that's it. I was actually relieved when he left last night. Now my stomach is churning at the thought of going home this evening. The fight will, no doubt, resume. I don't want our marriage to end in an argument. I wish I could take my son somewhere else for the weekend, because it hurts him to see what will likely happen this evening. Husband refuses to allow him to go to my daughter's house, because he hates her and her husband so badly. I don't want to live like this any longer. I just hate to see our marriage end. 

Any advice on how to handle the evening to come?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Sorry you didn't get any advice. I hope it went ok for you. Sounds like an awful situation. I wish you peace and better days.


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## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

sit down and listen to what your husband wants to say. Just listen. If you want to speak, just rephrase what he said. Once he is done, tell him you need time to process and consider what he had said. Come back here when you have done this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

What was the fight over? Is your H often prone to these sort of rages? Has he ever been physically violent towards you? He sounds abusive, but without further information it's difficult to say...


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> What was the fight over? Is your H often prone to these sort of rages? Has he ever been physically violent towards you? He sounds abusive, but without further information it's difficult to say...


Cosmos,

I'm really sorry. I tried to attach previous threads for history, but it appears that I don't know how to do that! He had been ranting about what a loser my son-in-law is, and how badly he hates him. I understand that the kids isn't a highly motivated individual, but he's not a BAD guy. Anyway, I've heard it all before. I had just let him blow himself out. When he was finished talking, I kissed him goodnight and went to bed. Apparently, he hadn't blown himself out, though, because he came back into the bedroom for more. 

He does have anger issues, which I've been trying to get him to see a counselor about since the beginning of the year. He's never been physically abusive, though. I went through that with my first husband. Before I married the second time, I made it very clear that was a deal breaker. I should have addressed emotional abuse, as well, apparently.

We're at a very tenuous truce, right now. He's made it very clear that he HATES the house that we just moved into. I picked the house, you see, based upon the lower rent, the fact that it's larger than the house we were in previously, and it's closer to my work. I don't expect the truce to last much longer, though. He's already very much on edge.

He's very irritated with me, because I haven't finished getting us moved. I have done ALL of the packing. My son and I loaded the U-Haul truck and unloaded it. We still have a couple of chairs, tables, and about four boxes of stuff at the old house that need to be moved by the end of the weekend. He also has a car and all of the stuff in the garage that has to be moved. I have told him that I will be responsible for everything EXCEPT for the garage. That makes him unhappy.

I work full time, go to college online full time, and have been 100% responsible for the move. I'm sorry that I haven't been able to get more done. Do I have some resentment? Absolutely. I'm tired of everything being my responsibility, so that if anything goes wrong, it's automatically my fault. I don't know how I'll afford to pay for a divorce, but it looks like that's what's going to happen. I'm exhausted from doing it all myself.


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## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

mattsmom said:


> Cosmos,
> 
> I'm really sorry. I tried to attach previous threads for history, but it appears that I don't know how to do that! He had been ranting about what a loser my son-in-law is, and how badly he hates him. I understand that the kids isn't a highly motivated individual, but he's not a BAD guy. Anyway, I've heard it all before. I had just let him blow himself out. When he was finished talking, I kissed him goodnight and went to bed. Apparently, he hadn't blown himself out, though, because he came back into the bedroom for more.
> 
> ...



So this going to be a SECOND divorce? AND your first husband had the same issue?

It is either you are attracted to losers or you have a habit of turning men into angry monsters and then run away.

Unless you take the steps I said, or you just gonna divorce three more times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

look, your man needs to feel important
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

yours4ever said:


> look, your man needs to feel important


She said that she did listen to him and thought he was done. She had to get up at 5am and needed sleep. 

So does making his wife not get sleep so that he can rant at 11PM over something she has no control over make a man feel important? Really?

So none of the other things that she is doing not count?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

yours4ever said:


> So this going to be a SECOND divorce? AND your first husband had the same issue?
> 
> It is either you are attracted to losers or you have a habit of turning men into angry monsters and then run away.


His behavior is 100% his own responsibility. Why are you trying to blame her for his wanting to yell, scream and slam doors after 11pm when she needed sleep so that she could get up in the morning and go to work? 



yours4ever said:


> Unless you take the steps I said, or you just gonna divorce three more times.


This remark is completely uncalled for.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mattsmom,

From your previous threads I gather that your husband has not been emotionally abusive all along. Now after his disability he is depressed and he's even more abusive.

While your husband's disability is, I'm sure, hard for him to handle, the fact is that the it's his responsibility to learn to handle this stage of his life. And if he cannot do it without being abusive then there is little you can do... except move on.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I just read another post of yours and your husband is a complete jerk. First he cheats on you, second he's unemployed and third he verbally/emotionally abuses you. Next he could physically hit you with his anger issue.

I would pack up and leave. You will be much better without this man. He treats you like dirt then throws a temper tantrum. 

I am very sorry your going through this a second time. You do not deserve to be treated this way ever!


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Seems to be a new trend on the boards that the ultimate goal is to remain married an make the man feel like a man regardless of how crappy his behaviour is. The new trend seems to hold people reponsible for the moods of others as well. Your husband is angry about something. In no way is that your responsibility. If you have the strength to leave, then maybe it's for the best. And no you haven't 'turned two men abusive'. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

yours4ever said:


> So this going to be a SECOND divorce? AND your first husband had the same issue?
> 
> It is either you are attracted to losers or you have a habit of turning men into angry monsters and then run away.
> 
> ...


Yours,

Yes, this is my second marriage. I'm his third wife. I have talked with him over and over. I have been to marriage counselling with him. I have bent over backward to make him feel loved and important, to the point that my needs were no longer even a consideration. Divorce three more times? No, I don't think so. This will be my last marriage, regardless of whether it lasts.

Thank you for your kind response.
Mattsmom


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

yours4ever said:


> look, your man needs to feel important
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My entire existence has revolved around this man for the past five years. I have dropped everything and run from my workplace at a phone call. I have absolutely no social life, because he can't join me on some nights, and doesn't want to on others. I cannot make him "feel" anything: happy, important, masculine. His emotions are up to him. I can be the best wife I know how to be, but he remains responsible for himself, just as I am responsible for myself.

Mattsmom


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> mattsmom,
> 
> From your previous threads I gather that your husband has not been emotionally abusive all along. Now after his disability he is depressed and he's even more abusive.
> 
> While your husband's disability is, I'm sure, hard for him to handle, the fact is that the it's his responsibility to learn to handle this stage of his life. And if he cannot do it without being abusive then there is little you can do... except move on.


EleGirl,

He's always had jerk tendencies, but was usually able to reign them in after a conversation. I don't want to be the loser that yours4ever depicts, with two divorces under my belt. I'll openly admit that I have co-dependency issues. I realize that my failed marriage is my fault as much as it is my husband's. 

He gets angry at the mention of my daughter's name. Nothing she and her husband do is good enough. I refuse to cut them out of my life. I moved 1,700 miles to be near my daughter and her children, and I won't be made to keep them at an arm's distance. Yes, I want my marriage to work, but not at the cost of my relationship with my daughter.

I have moved into a place that I can afford on my own. We are going to continue to give it the old college try for the remainder of this month, and then reevaluate. 

Thanks for your help,
Mattsmom


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I just read another post of yours and your husband is a complete jerk. First he cheats on you, second he's unemployed and third he verbally/emotionally abuses you. Next he could physically hit you with his anger issue.
> 
> I would pack up and leave. You will be much better without this man. He treats you like dirt then throws a temper tantrum.
> 
> I am very sorry your going through this a second time. You do not deserve to be treated this way ever!


In Love,

I think, at this point, I'm most concerned about our 9-year-old son. He sees and hears all of this nonsense. He deserves better than to be spoken to the way his father does. I have had the conversation with him that sometimes it's better to have two parents that live apart and are happy than it is to have two parents in the same house that argue all the time. He's such a sweet boy. I just can't bear to see him sad and beaten down. He deserves to be happy and carefree at this age. I know what I have to do. I just keep praying that my husband will realize what he's doing and change.

Thank you,
Mattsmom


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> Seems to be a new trend on the boards that the ultimate goal is to remain married an make the man feel like a man regardless of how crappy his behaviour is. The new trend seems to hold people reponsible for the moods of others as well. Your husband is angry about something. In no way is that your responsibility. If you have the strength to leave, then maybe it's for the best. And no you haven't 'turned two men abusive'. Good luck to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Golfergirl,

Thanks for your kind words. Bless my Momma's heart, she taught me well how to just keep taking men's crap. My first marriage ended when my husband threatened our son. This marriage may well end because I can no longer turn a blind eye to the way our son feels. 

Hubs had the audacity to yell at me because none of his children called him on Father's Day. I pointed out to him that 1) this was in no way my fault, 2) I spent a LOT of money to try to make his day special, and 3) perhaps if he were to reach out to his older children rather than expecting them to do all of the work to maintain the relationship, he might experience some different results. This advice did not sit well (SHOCKER!).

I will hang on for a few more weeks, and try to make things work, but I hold out little hope, at this point. 

Thanks, again,
Mattsmom


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## silkpalace (May 17, 2013)

Dear MattsMom

You sound like a wonderful person. You seem like a very loving human being who just wants to make everyone happy. I totally get it!!! I've been married two times, and currently separated from my 2nd husband. I know in my heart of hearts that I have been a wonderful wife to my husbands. I immediately wanted to read your post "slamming doors", because that's what I have been living with for years. My 2nd husband was always slamming doors because he was always angry, because he was always enraged and DRUNK! I thought all the mirrors in the apartment would fall off the walls because of those slamming doors. Currently, I am separated from my husband and am not going back......luckily, I do not have children to worry about. I love him with all my heart and soul.....but he is a raging alcoholic who has not dealt with his issues. I left several times, but left for good on April 22nd. Get the book , Codependent No More by Melody Beattie....you will "see" yourself on every page. It has helped me enormously. My heart is with you!!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

yours4ever said:


> So this going to be a SECOND divorce? AND your first husband had the same issue?
> 
> It is either you are attracted to losers or you have a habit of turning men into angry monsters and then run away.
> 
> ...


This is one of the most ROTTEN things I have seen anyone post on here to another member.  Seriously uncalled for. 

I've been divorced 3 times, what a freakshow* I *must be, huh?? 

MM, I've been reading your threads, I think you may have finally hit the end of that rope you have been hanging on to. He isnt going to change. You and your son deserve to have peace in your lives.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

yours4ever said:


> So this going to be a SECOND divorce? AND your first husband had the same issue?
> 
> It is either you are attracted to losers or you have a habit of turning men into angry monsters and then run away.
> 
> ...


It isn't unusual for people who have been caught up in the cycle of abuse to attract similar people in the future, because their boundaries are damaged. This is why abuse counseling is necessary after an abusive relationship. It teaches victims how to become survivors and how to break the cycle of abuse in their lives. 

It is unfair of you to suggest that the OP might have "a habit of turning men into angry monsters."


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

silkpalace said:


> Dear MattsMom
> 
> Y\I left several times, but left for good on April 22nd. Get the book , Codependent No More by Melody Beattie....you will "see" yourself on every page. It has helped me enormously. My heart is with you!!


Silkpalace,

I'm glad that you got out of there. No one deserves to live like that. A friend of my bought me "Codependent No More" two years ago. I'm reading it, again. I actually asked my husband to read it when I first got it, so that he could try to understand where my head was and what was going on with me. He refused. That seems to be his MO...

Anyway, in my head, I know what I should do. It's a problem of the heart, I suppose. I don't want to give up. We'll have our 12th wedding anniversary a week from today. This will be the first time that I haven't reminded him constantly leading up to the date. I'm sure he won't remember, but maybe he'll surprise me. If he doesn't, I'm not going to be mad. I don't have that in me, anymore. 

He came into our room last night and asked me how I thought things were going. I told him that I could tell that he was working on his anger issues, but that I was afraid that he wouldn't be able to keep it up for long. I also told him that I still felt more like a roommate than a wife. He asked me what he could do. I told him that I think of him and our son before I do anything. Even things as simple as making the grocery list or what channel the television is on. I told him that I needed him to do the same thing for us. I gave him a couple of specific examples of things that he did the day before that were really inconsiderate. He just looked at me with this broken expression and told me that he didn't know how to do that. :scratchhead:


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

Ugh. I'm so sorry. He sounds like a difficult person to live with. No one gets married with the intention of getting a divorce...let alone a second divorce. I can definitely relate to that feeling of wanting to stay just so you don't have another "mark" on your record. It's a stupid reason to stay, however...especially when someone is manipulating you and controlling you with his childish anger. 

Good luck in your new place. Have you read "Codependent No More"?


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Your last message was somewhat encouraging I think. I think a lot of guys stuck in the rut he seems to be in would not approach their wife to ask her how things are going and carry on a conversation in which she gets an opportunity to go into detail about areas that he needs improvement in. I'm not sure what specific examples you offered that he didn't know how to do, but make sure you keep trying to look at it through his eyes (it sounds like you do that already wherever possible, keep it up!) and know that maybe that meant something else to him. 

I think I have often said something similar to my wife or friends, "I don't know how to do that" or "I don't know where to begin!" but it usually doesn't mean that I'm unwilling to do it, it just means I hadn't considered it before and I'll need to think about how to go about doing it. 

It sounds like it was a reasonably productive conversation, and it seems really good that he was willing to take the constructive criticism well.

By the way, I don't know if it has been said, but there are a lot of great books that could help you. The love dare immediately comes to mind, along with the five love languages and Love & Respect to name a few!


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

bewilderness said:


> Ugh. I'm so sorry. He sounds like a difficult person to live with. No one gets married with the intention of getting a divorce...let alone a second divorce. I can definitely relate to that feeling of wanting to stay just so you don't have another "mark" on your record. It's a stupid reason to stay, however...especially when someone is manipulating you and controlling you with his childish anger.
> 
> Good luck in your new place. Have you read "Codependent No More"?


Yep! Love the book. Reading it again, now!


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> Your last message was somewhat encouraging I think. I think a lot of guys stuck in the rut he seems to be in would not approach their wife to ask her how things are going and carry on a conversation in which she gets an opportunity to go into detail about areas that he needs improvement in. I'm not sure what specific examples you offered that he didn't know how to do, but make sure you keep trying to look at it through his eyes (it sounds like you do that already wherever possible, keep it up!) and know that maybe that meant something else to him.
> 
> I think I have often said something similar to my wife or friends, "I don't know how to do that" or "I don't know where to begin!" but it usually doesn't mean that I'm unwilling to do it, it just means I hadn't considered it before and I'll need to think about how to go about doing it.
> 
> ...


I'll definitely check the books out. Basically, I asked him to think about how his words or actions will make me or our son feel BEFORE he acts or speaks. The example I gave him is when I had gone to bed at 11:00, exhausted. He came into the bedroom at about 3:00 a.m. (mind you, I have to get up at 5:00 to go to work) and turned on the television in our room. After about a half hour, he wanted to talk. I've asked him before to try to let me sleep through the night, unless it's something really important, because I don't get much sleep, anyway, and hate to make the 45 minute drive to work when I can barely keep my eyes open. It's dangerous for everyone on the road with me. Thinking about our feelings is what he said he didn't know how to do. So, I just asked him to think about how it would make him feel if one of us did it to him. I truly feel like he and I are speaking different languages.

I don't know that I would go as far as to say that he takes constructive criticism well. He was still sulking the next evening and didn't come to bed that night, at all. I'm almost ashamed to admit that I no longer miss his presence in the bed when he's not there.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Well, I don't know him well enough to really say he generally takes constructive criticism well, in fact it sounds like he usually doesn't at all judging by his incredibly immature tantrums. It just seemed like he handled himself alright that particular time.

As far as your request for him to think about how his words and actions will make you both feel before he acts or speaks, his response sort of makes sense to me. I could see a guy interpreting that as, "You need to know how your son and I will react to your words/actions beforehand." which sounds like a tall order, but you aren't actually asking that. You just want him to consider your feelings and how his words/actions will impact you in general, as doing so will likely greatly cut down on a lot of your hurt/frustration. That is definitely a very fair expectation.

I hope he can have his "wake-up call" before you are ready to call it. It is amazing that by the time the woman is ready to quit and has fully girded herself for a fight and is unwilling to reconsider, that many guys still have no idea that the relationship was even in trouble. So often times it isn't until she has walked out that he it actually occurs to him. Then he might try everything in his power to change, all the while she either doesn't believe him or can't believe that he was so clueless. Communication between the species I tell ya... lol.


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> W Communication between the species I tell ya... lol.


:iagree:
You said it right there! I swear we speak different languages!


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Books and more books I LOVE books. I like

Love Busters
His Needs Her Needs 
No More Mr Nice Guy

Both are great for men or women. I get that you are getting to a place where you want to leave what I would do this

1. Set a meeting with him at a time that is good for you both on day netiher of you work. Neutral location not the home.

2. Write out a a point by point summary of your good and bad points in the relationship. What you can work on and what you need him to work on.

3. Have the books ready for him "His Needs Her Needs, Love Busters, 5 Steps to Romantic Love, find a good anger managment book".

4. Own your 50% of the problem but do not own any part of his.

5. Date Night is mandatory.

6. Undivided time together is scheduled for 20 hours per week.

7. Follow the Enthusiastic Agreement as outlined in the books.

8. Go through the work book 5 Steps to Romantic Love.

9. Set a date every week where for no less than 1 hour you both bring problems to the table to discuss this happens every week if a problem cannot wait than that is okay but try to let them keep unti this time.

10 Set date 6 months out where you decide if you want to stay or go.


All this give him realistic goals and a laid out plan to follow with clear consequences if he should not follow it. Men needs this structure to make a marriage better we need a framework with deadlines and goal. We need things spelled out for us and actions clearly articulated. This gives him the tools to do this. When he say he does not know how to do something it is because he genuinely does not know. Take affections I ask my girl if this action or that action is affectionate to her, sometimes she says of course it is. I say well I don't and really I don't that is why I ask once she tells me yes it goes into my file in my head marked Affection. Simple concept for some but I struggled for years with it.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

silkpalace said:


> Dear MattsMom
> 
> You sound like a wonderful person. You seem like a very loving human being who just wants to make everyone happy. I totally get it!!! I've been married two times, and currently separated from my 2nd husband. I know in my heart of hearts that I have been a wonderful wife to my husbands. I immediately wanted to read your post "slamming doors", because that's what I have been living with for years. My 2nd husband was always slamming doors because he was always angry, because he was always enraged and DRUNK! I thought all the mirrors in the apartment would fall off the walls because of those slamming doors. Currently, I am separated from my husband and am not going back......luckily, I do not have children to worry about. I love him with all my heart and soul.....but he is a raging alcoholic who has not dealt with his issues. I left several times, but left for good on April 22nd. Get the book , Codependent No More by Melody Beattie....you will "see" yourself on every page. It has helped me enormously. My heart is with you!!


:iagree: You sound like a beautiful soul. Your husband is not worthy of you at this point. He sounds like a whiny baby who can't see past his own nose.


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

Well, here's a fine mess! Last Tuesday, I asked permission to go see "The Heat" with my daughter on Friday night. He told me that I looked like I was afraid to ask. I told him that I was, because he really resents my relationship with my daughter. He said that I deserve time to do things like that, and that it was silly for me to ask permission. I asked him if he was sure that he was okay with it, because I didn't want him to turn around and be mad on Friday when it was time for me to leave. Of course, he was sure. At about midnight Thursday night, he woke me up to tell me that it hurt his feelings that I was going out with my daughter instead of him. I asked him if he remembered me asking for permission and the discussion that followed. He was still mad. I was hurt. I shouldn't have to ask permission to see my own daughter. I can't plan nights out with him, because I never know when he's going to be feeling well enough to go. He won't make arrangements for someone to watch our son. It's my fault we don't go out together.

I had a miserable weekend. I've been 100% responsible for getting our entire household moved from the old house to the new one. The biggest reason for the move is financial. With my income, his disability check, and his spending habits, we simply couldn't afford to stay at the other place. I found the new place ($550 less per month), but he hates it. Now he's irritated because everything hasn't been moved, yet. I work about 50 hours per week 45 minutes from our home, and go to school online full time. I do 95% of the housework, as well. So, I have about one day on the weekend that's available for me to borrow a truck and get things moved. 

This past weekend, in addition to moving several loads of stuff from the old house to the new one, my daughter and I went and picked up a stove and refrigerator for the new place. When we got to the new house with the appliances, it was pouring rain. We got the stove into the house, but the refrigerator was too wide to go through the door. So, there I was, laying on our front deck in the pouring rain, trying to get the doors off of the refrigerator so it would fit through the door. My husband comes to the front door, demands to know why I don't lean the refrigerator back, so that I can get to the bolts holding the hinges on more easily. It's a large, heavy, side-by-side refrigerator. Who is going to hold it up? My daughter? I don't think so. I simply told him that I could get it. That made him angry. He slammed the door and went back inside.

We eventually got both appliances in the house, and my daughter went home. I cleaned both appliances and discovered that we had a three pronged cord on the range, and a four pronged outlet. I went to Lowe's and picked up a three pronged outlet and changed it out. The stove had taken a good soaking, so it didn't work until the following day. The refrigerator didn't have a water line for the icemaker. I purchased one the following day and installed that, as well. He's irritated that people from my work (I work for a plumbing and HVAC company) haven't been out to do freebie jobs for us. Hmmm, I don't think that's going to happen. They get paid for what they do, and I haven't been here that long.

I'm tired. I'm miserable. I want out. I can't tell him. Today is our 12th wedding anniversary. I don't even want to go home. When I left for work this morning, he told me that I didn't look happy. No, I'm not happy. But how do I tell him that on our anniversary?! Simple. I won't. His car is in pieces, so he couldn't leave, now, anyway. I think that he loves me in his own screwed up way. Or maybe he just loves the idea of being married to someone who takes care of his every need. I'm exhausted from empty promises. I want peace. I want sleep. I hate feeling so damned trapped. :banghead:


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

just a quick heads up

and do bear in mind I am not stating that this is always the case but rather something to keep your eyes open to

One of the red flags of cheating is when the WS intentionally picks a fight so that they can storm out of the house (and thus be with their AP) 

again, I am not stating that this is indeed an absolute but you should evaluate if he is showing other signs of cheating and make a determination whether it is valid to investigate it


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MM, is your husband's disability such that he cannot do physical work, such as moving the refrigerator? 

You arent trapped. You can leave. I cant believe you moved with this man. Stop looking for excuses...you are using the anniversary, and the car as your excuses right now. The only thing standing between YOU and HAPPINESS is YOU.


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

AlmostRecovered, he had an affair about five years ago, but not since then. He has no transportation, and has completely isolated himself from the outside world. I was actually outside in the rain working on the refrigerator, and he stormed IN to the house. He does, however, try to project his guilt from the affair on to me, making accusations that I'm cheating. I emphatically point out to him that HE cheated... NOT me, and I refuse to allow him to lay his guilt on me.


3X, you're 100% right. The heck of it is that I KNOW THESE THINGS! I am completely engulfed in guilt: Guilt over his lack of finances, guilt over his pain, guilt over his family's rejection of him, guilt over separating him from his son. For some reason I take all of this guilt upon myself, even though it's all his doing. I know that it's time to "nut up or shut up" as the boys say. I just have crap for timing. We were actually 400 miles from home awaiting another of his surgeries the first time that he asked me if I was in love with him and I told him that I was not. He will NEVER let me forget that!

His disability is rather strange and, I suspect in a large part, psychosomatic. He's been to many, many doctors in at least four different states, has been through multiple surgeries, and still no one can help the pain. He has testicular pain and swelling, and chronic degenerative disc disease. I have no doubt that he's in pain. I just think that he uses that, sometimes, to get out of doing things.


So, I read some of the threads on here and think to myself, "He/She just doesn't get it! Leave and get it over with." I guess I've become that person. It's just very difficult to walk out on 15 years of work. This just sucks.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Omg, how did I miss that he cheated on you?? Girl, you need to get outta Dodge! Drop that damn guilt, it serves you no purpose. His current situation and whatever happens after you leave is NOT YOUR PROBLEM! He is a grown man, and whatever happens is his own doing. MAN, I didnt realize that he is a child AND a cheater!


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> MAN, I didnt realize that he is a child AND a cheater!


:iagree:
Nailed it!


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I wish I had words to help you understand that it's OK to value your own life and happiness, for your own sake. 

Where do you think the guilt comes from? Where does it get its power over you?

Why is it good for you to sacrifice your chance for happiness, and for him to accept that sacrifice (if not plead for it in so many ways) just to flush it away?

I wish I had the words, but I'm sure I don't. But, I do believe this is a common occurrence. I suspect it's covered pretty thoroughly in Therapy 101, at the school where they make new therapists ; in fact, it seems to happen to many folks here on TAM. 

My hunch is what would help you most is working on finding out why you hang on, sacrificing so much of yourself, even though in your mind you understand this is a sacrifice. You can probably do that more effectively with a therapist guide, but you could also do it here and with books.

Don't think for a second you are strange or broken to feel this way. Most of us do, to some degree. And some of us do, to a greater degree. And, your circumstances conspire against you, for sure.

My hunch is that you've got to face that part of yourself that is keeping you in, against your better judgement. It doesn't mean you have to leave. But, until you figure it out and untangle yourself from it, you are not free to stay for good reasons or leave in peace.

Wishing you the best.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, it sounds very much like you're caught up in the confusing and debilitating cycle of abuse (see here: Cycle of Abuse). It's vital that you stop taking responsibility for your H's bad behaviour, and you are doing this by allowing yourself to feel guilty about leaving him. You leaving him would be the result of his actions, not a choice you have willingly had to make...

Phone your local women's centre and set up an appointment for abuse counseling. Once you see how you are being manipulated by your H's behaviour, your choice to leave him will become a lot easier.

There are a lot of sick and disabled people out there, but they haven't all made the choice to behave as your H is behaving.

Edited to add: When I left my abuser he told me that he was "a dying man." When this failed, he threatened suicide. This was 5 years ago, now, and as far as I know he's still in the land of the living...


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

I fully realize that I'm caught in the web of codependence. My father was an alcoholic and I learned my mother's behavior all too well. I swore when I left home that I would never allow a man to cheat on me the way my mother did. My first husband not only cheated on me several times, he abused me both verbally and physically. It took him threatening our son before I left. At that time, I was able to tell myself, without question, that I was leaving for the benefit of our children.

This time, although our 9-year-old son is seeing unhealthy behaviors, I know that his father would never physically harm him. For that matter, he would never physically harm me, either. That means that I have to put on my big girl panties and do this just for me. It has been over 15 years since I did something just for me without guilt. It sounds stupid, but it's a very difficult thing for me to do.

I plan to have the talk this weekend. He'll probably stay at the house for another month in order to get his car put together and come up with a plan. I can move one of us into a spare bedroom. Even if we continue to sleep in the same room, we don't touch one another, anyway. I still care about his feelings, and I know this is going to be painful for him. I suppose I just have to concentrate on the fact that it has been painful for me for years. 

I'm not running into the arms of another man. I suspect that it will be quite some time before I even go on a date. I just want the opportunity to be happy and get healthy. No doubt, I'll be back on here after "the talk." Thanks to you all for your support. I'm really going to need it!

Mattsmom


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

It doesn't sound stupid that it's hard to do for you. Sounds pretty common/normal, under the circumstances.

I wish you the best in your talk.


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

I did it. And I really feel like it was the right thing. Saturday, I had a huge assignment due that was worth 1/3 of my grade for this class. When my husband rolled out of bed at 10:30, our son and I were having some Mommy/Son time and were still lounging in our pajamas. He started his day by bellowing that it was too late for us to still be in our pajamas, so we both went to change. Then hubby complained that everyone left the room. Isn't that what he'd asked for? 

I got my household chores done and by 2:00, I was ready to settle into my school work. That's when he came in and asked me to go pick up his prescription for him. This is the same prescription that he'd told me on Friday could wait until Wednesday. Things change. I get it. The pharmacy we usually use didn't have enough to fill the script, so I had to drive to another town. I finally returned home with his meds and some groceries at 6:00. It was after 7:00 by the time I finally got to start on my school work. Even then, he came into the office several times to ask trivial questions. The assignment had to be turned in by 1:00 a.m. Sunday, or it would be considered late. I turned it in at exactly 1:00, but it was one page short of the requested length. Don't know what that will do to me.

When I went to the living room to tell him that I'd finished and was going to bed, he wanted to argue. I had planned to get some sleep and then have a civil discussion about my feelings regarding our relationship on Sunday, but that wasn't meant to be, apparently. I told him, and then it was on. He was livid. He picked me apart for a few hours, and then went back into the living room. Then he came back and started in, again, telling me that he wouldn't leave the house. He'd move into the spare bedroom. I told him that wouldn't work, because I wanted our son to either have an example of a good, loving relationship, or none at all. That's when he switched tactics and employed guilt. That's the one that usually works best, after all. It went on and on, until about 7:00, when I had to do some stuff for work.

Basically, the agreement is that we will catch up the bills this week, and he will have a month to get his car put together and decide where he's going to go. We will also discuss splitting our property, bills, etc. during that time, and he will be prepared to move by the end of August. 

He asked that we not tell our son, yet. I think he's clinging to the hope of reconciliation, but I really don't think that's possible, at this point. The biggest problem that I have with waiting, is that my husband talks about what's going on constantly, and doesn't do a very good job of veiling his comments. Our son isn't stupid. He's going to figure it out. I'd rather be open with him. Should I press to go ahead and talk with our son, or should I allow it to wait?


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## A Better Me (Jul 22, 2013)

I took the time and read through this thread and wow. You definitely sound like a very patient and loving woman. From what I've read your hubby treats you like your a doormat versus a helpmate. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. It appears that you have a plan and I hope that things around there become less hectic during the time being. 

As far as the question you asked in regards to telling your son. My suggestion would be to wait. I would suggest explaining everything together, if possible a day or two before he plans to leave. One thing you mentioned to me, children learn what they live. I'm sure your son already has some thoughts about what is going on. He may not be surprised when he hears it.

You and your little guy deserve to be happy and to live in peace!

I wish you and your son the best!

Many blessings,
A Better Me


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## Allltuvx (Jul 16, 2013)

That almost manipulating behavior over something important as your online school assignment was not very good - that is your grade there and he probably knew that. 

You also are independent now with your ability to move things and get a fridge in the door, run to Lowes - you don't need him to help with anything.

That also put stress on you and he rudely interrupted your mommy/son time. Your little kid picks up on all this toxic stuff. They pick up any tension or yelling or physically slamming doors. 

Actually, in some states, just him doing that might get the cops called and they would come out for a domestic dispute/disturbing the peace.

He needs til August to get his life together for you to leave when he has been treating you where you want to leave? 

Don't feel guilty if he still is making you miserable as you are waiting for August to get out of there - leave sooner if nee be and let him fend for himself without any person to blame and yell at.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Mattsmom, was he always like this toward your daughter? If so, why did you marry him? Or it all started after the marriage? If so, you may want to dig into why. What caused his resentment? Make it clear that you are not going to give up on your daughter, he likes her or not.
Secondly, he sounds like an abuser big time. I'm surprised he didn't hit you yet. I wouldn't take it, no matter how many divorces and kids I already had. Don't let no one put you down and blame you for his feelings, for his behavior, and for his poor actions, should they lead to divorce.
Make one last attempt to reach out to him. Inform him that if he doesn't cease with this treatment, you are done. If he gets nasty and continues to be jerk, there is your answer, he won't change. Some marriages are not worth salvaging. Sometimes even being alone is better. Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mattsmom said:


> .... Should I press to go ahead and talk with our son, or should I allow it to wait?


Wait a bit to tell your son. It's not really pressing yet. Your husband is a bit out of control, so he will most likely say something to hint at it in the next few days. When he does, then tell you son. 

This way your husband was the one to let the cat out of the bag.

If you can, you might want to go to a counselor to help with telling your son. I think this would be wise because you will most likely need to tell him why his father is leaving. And our son might not even know that his father's behavior is wrong.


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## mattsmom (Apr 2, 2013)

I want to thank everyone here for your kind words of advice and encouragement. I had told my husband about this site months ago, and encouraged him to log on, participate in the conversations, and get some advice for himself. He never talked about it, so I assumed he never did it.

Yesterday morning, he asked if he could read my posts. I told him that, of course, he could ready them. I also warned him that these were expressions of raw emotions, and were not sugar-coated for anyone's benefit. He told me that he understood that, and that he just wanted to read them to try to gain some insight, not to use my posts as "ammo" against me.

Guess what? WRONG! I spent another night in tears, and now I feel like I've lost the one place that I can safely go to vent. So, going forward, I'll be here to support other posters, and to learn what I can, but probably won't post much more for my own benefit. It's just not worth it.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

mattsmom said:


> I want to thank everyone here for your kind words of advice and encouragement. I had told my husband about this site months ago, and encouraged him to log on, participate in the conversations, and get some advice for himself. He never talked about it, so I assumed he never did it.
> 
> Yesterday morning, he asked if he could read my posts. I told him that, of course, he could ready them. I also warned him that these were expressions of raw emotions, and were not sugar-coated for anyone's benefit. He told me that he understood that, and that he just wanted to read them to try to gain some insight, not to use my posts as "ammo" against me.
> 
> Guess what? WRONG! I spent another night in tears, and now I feel like I've lost the one place that I can safely go to vent. So, going forward, I'll be here to support other posters, and to learn what I can, but probably won't post much more for my own benefit. It's just not worth it.


Sadly, this is one of the reasons why couple counseling rarely works in abusive relationships. The abuser often uses what they have learned in counseling as a tool to abuse further...

OP, if you would like to PM me please feel free to do so. Unfortunately, now that your H knows about you posting here, no doubt he will be checking up on you... I suggest that you take the precaution of changing your password here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mattsmom,


mattsmom said:


> He's always had jerk tendencies, but was usually able to reign them in after a conversation. I don't want to be the loser that yours4ever depicts, with two divorces under my belt. I'll openly admit that I have co-dependency issues. I realize that my failed marriage is my fault as much as it is my husband's.


I don’t know about your previous marriage, but the failure of this marriage does not sound like it’s 50% your fault. You husband is an angry, abusive man. How is that your fault? If you have any fault it’s probably that you stayed with him too long. And that’s the co-dependency working there. I read something recently that sounds so true: Codependency is a normal reaction to a spouse with serious mental health, abuse and/or addiction problems.



mattsmom said:


> He gets angry at the mention of my daughter's name. Nothing she and her husband do is good enough. I refuse to cut them out of my life. I moved 1,700 miles to be near my daughter and her children, and I won't be made to keep them at an arm's distance. Yes, I want my marriage to work, but not at the cost of my relationship with my daughter.


Your husband wants to cut you off from people who can support you. He wants to isolate you so that his anger and abuse can have more effect in controlling you. You are right to do allow this.



mattsmom said:


> I have moved into a place that I can afford on my own. We are going to continue to give it the old college try for the remainder of this month, and then reevaluate.


Sounds like a good plan. I wish you well.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> OP, it sounds very much like you're caught up in the confusing and debilitating cycle of abuse (see here: Cycle of Abuse). It's vital that you stop taking responsibility for your H's bad behaviour, and you are doing this by allowing yourself to feel guilty about leaving him. You leaving him would be the result of his actions, not a choice you have willingly had to make...
> 
> Phone your local women's centre and set up an appointment for abuse counseling. Once you see how you are being manipulated by your H's behaviour, your choice to leave him will become a lot easier.
> 
> ...


I staid with a man, for almost 8 years, because he told me he "was dying" too. Even though I knew he lied and used me, I thought I couldn't leave him because he was "dying" too. I finally got to a point where it was either my mental sanity or him. I picked me. 4 years later, he is still alive and well. 

I am a lot better, now! I feel a huge relieve that I am free and thankfully with someone that loves me.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Mattsmom, I am also open to PM's if you wish. If you want, I will give you my email as well.


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