# SOS - need therapy recommendations NOW



## heart of darkness (Feb 14, 2014)

I have been reading this site for awhile, but finally registered today.

My story is long and complicated, and I don't have the emotional or mental energy to try to tell it all right now. Short version: my husband is the cheating spouse, stuck deep in rationalization and denial. He really does believe his own skewed version of the truth, including outright lies. Plenty of gaslighting, blame-shifting, and trickle-truth. Even though we are working on restoring our marriage and making some progress, he's got a foot in both worlds. Sometimes he is clear-headed and loving; other times, it's all no-accountability-it's-her-fault delusions. I am suffering beyond description.

I'm posting because I am DESPERATE to find a local therapist for my husband and me to see. Wasted time with two people who were absolutely not qualified to counsel us - and we were referred to them. Recently started working with someone who is not a MC and who is supposed to refer us to someone for ongoing therapy. He was very helpful at first, but has started talking in ways that make me suspect that he is perhaps the worst fit of all. My husband says he is willing to go back to therapy and work on healing and rebuilding. We HAVE to go to someone local using our insurance - out-of-pocket online or phone therapy sessions are not in the budget.

Really need to find someone who understand the dynamics of infidelity, who recognizes the behavior/thought patterns of the cheater. These two articles (one from this site) summarize what I believe infidelity is, and what it does to someone who has been betrayed. (I am absolutely in the same horrible shape as the woman in the first link below.) So I'm looking for a therapist who would read these, and say "of course - that's exactly my approach", not WTF:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/articles/676-healing-affair.html
Myths of Infidelity | Psychology Today

Here's the hard part. I know these posts show up in searches and I don't know how to identify my location privately. I just googled "talking about marriage forum" and immediately found links to posts here. I'm trying to be open with my husband, but just don't feel safe enough yet to share more here. Is there a way to PM or something?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

heart of darkness said:


> I have been reading this site for awhile, but finally registered today.
> 
> My story is long and complicated, and I don't have the emotional or mental energy to try to tell it all right now. Short version: my husband is the cheating spouse, stuck deep in rationalization and denial. He really does believe his own skewed version of the truth, including outright lies. Plenty of gaslighting, blame-shifting, and trickle-truth. Even though we are working on restoring our marriage and making some progress, he's got a foot in both worlds. Sometimes he is clear-headed and loving; other times, it's all no-accountability-it's-her-fault delusions. I am suffering beyond description.
> 
> ...


Click on the PM and it will take to messages. type in the person you want to contact. for instance, type in Thorburn and it will be sent to me.

I would be glad to help you. I am a professional counselor and may be able to assist you in finding a counselor.

You need to post 30 times before you can take this private.

Post a bunch of short ones and you will there in no time.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

I am not being harsh but you need to understand something.

If your husband is not truly remorseful and wants the marriage, a therapist for him is a waste of time.

You need to focus on you. A therapist for you is a good idea. You can't make him be who you thought he was. I'm just trying to let you know from hundreds of stories of experience.

I am sorry you are here sister. God bless.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Experienced, Pro-Commitment Marriage Counseling

The above website, the National Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists, has a search feature where you can enter your zip code. 

"Marriage Friendly Therapists only accepts:

marriage counselors with years of training and experience in marriage and couples counseling, 

marriage counselors who value marriage and life-long commitment, 

therapists who are dedicated to helping marriages succeed, if at all possible"

You can read their bios and see if they have experience in working with couples who are dealing with infidelity, and also call to talk with them first.

I hope when you used the phrase "cheating spouse" you didn't mean that he is still cheating. Because I don't know how you can be working on "restoring" your marriage if he is still cheating. I think you mean that he is still in the "fog" and justifying what he did - not remorseful and being a pain in the a$$, not helping you to heal. Which is horrible, but it's better than still carrying on the affair!! MC is useful if he's willing to try AND you get a GOOD therapist. So sorry you're going through this.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

hopefulgirl said:


> Experienced, Pro-Commitment Marriage Counseling
> 
> The above website, the National Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists, has a search feature where you can enter your zip code.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## heart of darkness (Feb 14, 2014)

Dang- almost done with new post then clicked out of it somehow. Hope it didn't go to mods. Will try to reconstruct.

Sorry for long delay in checking back. Appreciate responses here and in PMs. Husband NOT currently unfaithful, but was close to. Continue to make progress. More loving behavior, apologies, fewer outbursts. Still in rationalization fog, but not as much as a month ago.

BUT we have much work to do, and the right therapist is key. The marriage-friendly therapist link - yes, that's the approach we need, and from a non-religious perspective. Close to zero of the therapists from the list nearby, though. Got some additional therapist directories in PMs, although that's what I was already looking at, and it would be more dart-throwing, I fear. 

Still hoping to find recommendations per the details and the links in my original post. Also still very uneasy about sharing more personal details here - others who have intruded/interfered may be reading this. So I'll go out on a limb and reveal that we are in S*W* P*A*. The largest city there. 

Looking for names of GOOD therapists, as well as ones to avoid. Now that I've provided some location info, anyone have any specific suggestions - and ideally based on personal experience?


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## heart of darkness (Feb 14, 2014)

I know I'm new here. I understand that my reluctance to share more details about my situation may make people suspicious about me or my veracity. I am not a troll, not a plant. I am exactly what I said in my prior posts. 

My husband has shared his skewed version of the "truth" - I can't even call it that, because it's so NOT the reality - with many people over the years. The pattern is he tells a lie, distortion, or partial story that makes him the victim, me the problem. Other people respond "poor you" and believe him without challenging anything he says. Often there are obvious holes in his story, and the other people know enough of our history that they should be asking some questions. Nope, they swallow it all, he gets heard and validated, which reinforces the lies to the point that he begins to believe them. 

Then the feedback loop begins - he lies, they believe, support, give advice. He makes decisions damaging to our marriage - and the others encourage, give permission, even applaud his actions. This dynamic has been a HUGE part of our marital problems for several years, with or without outright infidelity. There was a post here recently about "toxic" friends - the scenario described in that post wasn't the same as what we're experiencing, but the concept was absolutely the same. 

I CAN'T TALK IN MORE DETAIL BECAUSE I AM CONCERNED THE MY HUSBAND'S TOXIC FRIENDS MAY BE READING THESE POSTS. THEIR INTRUSION INTO OUR MARRIAGE HAS BEEN WILDLY INAPPROPRIATE, AND I WOULDN'T PUT IT PAST THEM TO BE LOOKING FOR FORUMS LIKE THIS AND USE WHAT THEY FIND TO CONTINUE TO INTERFERE.

I KNOW that my husband's behavior is the main issue, and he has to own his actions and the consequences. I can address that directly with him, even call him on his "support system" and ask him not to share details with them as we work on our marriage. I think he is essentially abiding by this, although I have no way of proving it. But I have NO WAY of controlling/confronting the toxic friends and what they may be doing on their own.

So I guess I have a few requests at this point:


Please believe that I am who I say I am. PM me and I'll provide proof.

If there are any good posts/threads here on the destructiveness of toxic, interfering friends, please point me to them. I tried various search terms, found nothing.

If anyone would be willing to write something about how hurtful and counterproductive this behavior is, I would appreciate it. I could show the text to my husband, even if I'm not ready to share this site with him.

If anyone knows of books that address this, please share the titles. The books I have either don't get into this, or do so minimally. 

And finally, I'm still desperate for specific therapy referrals - both people to see and those to avoid. I have only one name from the marriage-friendly list to call - the others are hours away. If my location wasn't clear from my earlier post, well, if I were a hockey fan, I'd be cheering for the Penguins. (And if my husband's toxic friends are reading this, then so be it. I cannot confront you yet, but I DO have hard evidence of some unethical, inappropriate communication you had with my husband - and there may be others who find it inappropriate, too.)


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## beautiful_day (Mar 28, 2013)

I simply went to my family doctor and asked for a recommendation for a therapist. They have lists - and this was in a very rural area.

Your husband's behavior sounds very familiar to me. I completely understand how you feel - I put up with it for 6 years, desperately trying to make our marriage work and all the time he and his girlfriend were sneaking around and plotting behind my back. Meanwhile, I was losing my mind because I was being so severely gaslighted. 

I doesn't sound like you're at the point of acceptance yet, but the best the thing is to leave. Work on your independence as well your marriage, so that you have the option to leave too.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

A couple, or a few more, thoughts for you.

1) I think you could benefit from individual counseling. Not because you are crazy, but because you need an impartial person who has your best interest in mind. A therapist will tell you when you are off base, and will reassure you when you are thinking clearly. Sometimes you just need to vent in detail to someone, too, in order to get to some peace.

2) Boundaries. This is what you need, not some way to "fix" your husband's thinking. He needs boundaries from you, with real consequences. There are some good books out there.

3) "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" is a superb book which I think would really help you tremendously in dealing with him and with his toxic friends/relatives. You can find it at bookza dot org for free.

4) In your case he may be broken. Have you heard of the concept "character defect" as used by Alcoholics Anon? Some people despite all the support they have and despite all their protestations that they want to quit drinking, just keep falling off the wagon. There is some defect deep inside which keeps them from succeeding, even though they really do want to succeed. Your husband may have such a defect. He may not, idk. The only way to find out is for him to seek to change. You cannot be his therapist. It is the old leading a horse to water but you can't make him drink thing.

5) EFT. Emotion Focused Therapy. I think it is good stuff. You can search for a therapist from her website. Home . I really like her book "Hold Me Tight".


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Shamwow, a member here, posted a superb discussion titled something like "Just let them go". There is a lot of wisdom in his post. I will try to find it later.

Basically, just file for divorce and without a lot of fiery confrontation just tell your cheating spouse you are giving them their freedom. I think in many cases this is the best chance of shocking them into true remorse and truly working on the marriage. If they don't, you didn't have a chance anyhow.


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## heart of darkness (Feb 14, 2014)

beautiful_day said:


> I simply went to my family doctor and asked for a recommendation for a therapist. They have lists - and this was in a very rural area.
> 
> Your husband's behavior sounds very familiar to me. I completely understand how you feel - I put up with it for 6 years, desperately trying to make our marriage work and all the time he and his girlfriend were sneaking around and plotting behind my back. Meanwhile, I was losing my mind because I was being so severely gaslighted.
> 
> I doesn't sound like you're at the point of acceptance yet, but the best the thing is to leave. Work on your independence as well your marriage, so that you have the option to leave too.


Thank you for your response. Over the years, I have sought referrals for therapists - sometimes related to infidelity, sometimes for other issues - from MDs, other therapists, websites. I have made phone calls - sometimes a therapist will talk to me, sometimes a gatekeeper blocks the way. Even a couple of the ones I spoke to turned out to have misrepresented themselves once I got in their office. 

So from much personal experience with BAD therapists (not just for infidelity), and from reading sites like this one, I know how critical it is to find the right support for infidelity. The FAQ on the marriage-friendly therapist link above was very clear about how many professionals have few qualifications to adequately counsel couples, regardless of what issues they're facing. Even if my doctor had a "list" I'd still have to vet them, ask very specific questions about their experience, etc - and then cross my fingers.

I cannot, due to my concerns about the toxic friends, reveal more about my history except to say that it doesn't mirror yours. (And I'm sorry for what you experienced, BTW.) I hope to get to the point where I feel comfortable sharing more here. My focus, and my husband's, are on repairing - with the right professional help. He's less in rationalization/fog mode, but ongoing progress needs an experienced couples counselor, who can address all our issues.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I'm sorry that you're here. I do hope that you get the courage to post here so we can get to know more about you. I understand that you are afraid your husband's friends so I will leave it at that.

What I will suggest though is to read up on proxy recruitment and triangulation. See if that fits your husband and any of your individual circumstances with your husband. 

I'd like to know what you think and then I'd advise you further.


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## heart of darkness (Feb 14, 2014)

Thor said:


> A couple, or a few more, thoughts for you.
> 
> 1) I think you could benefit from individual counseling. Not because you are crazy, but because you need an impartial person who has your best interest in mind. A therapist will tell you when you are off base, and will reassure you when you are thinking clearly. Sometimes you just need to vent in detail to someone, too, in order to get to some peace.
> 
> ...


Thor, thank you for these thoughtful ideas/suggestions. The EFT site looks like a very good resource, and turned up the name of a person on my short list, plus a couple of others. 
Re: your post that follows (sorry, don't know yet how to quote two posts in a single reply). Not an option, for very complex reasons I can't go into here yet.


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## heart of darkness (Feb 14, 2014)

Miss Taken said:


> I'm sorry that you're here. I do hope that you get the courage to post here so we can get to know more about you. I understand that you are afraid your husband's friends so I will leave it at that.
> 
> What I will suggest though is to read up on proxy recruitment and triangulation. See if that fits your husband and any of your individual circumstances with your husband.
> 
> I'd like to know what you think and then I'd advise you further.


Yup, just skimmed both those links, and they sum things up pretty well, especially the triangulation. The part about complaining to others when you should be talking to the person you're dealing with is absolutely spot on. I recognized this behavior awhile ago - and the problems it creates. Just didn't have the terminology (although I'm familiar with triangulation in a different context).

I discovered this was going on a few years ago - AFTER it had led to many horrible things happening or nearly happening. We were able to reconcile, but I knew little about rugsweeping, etc. I DID want therapy for us, saw someone I'd seen previously for other issues, but this person had no idea how to help us. We saw someone else for a long time to address these communication issues (and the past infidelity), but this person had a very narrow therapeutic approach which didn't even touch these problems. 

Again, I KNOW my husband is the one who needs to accept his behavior and its consequences. If I showed these sites to him or just discussed the contents, he might get it, he might irrationally defend his actions. What I've been trying to find for 3 years is a therapist who will recognize that these behaviors are a significant part of our marital problems, and will work with him/us to find healthier ways to communicate. I know I can't MAKE him change, but he says he is willing to do the work. If we can find a therapist who can call him on this behavior AND who is marriage-friendly - that's where I believe we can get the right approach. 

FWIW, this behavior is 3-4 years old, and has occurred in blips, not continually. I have first-hand experience with narcissism, etc as described in the triangulation article. I don't believe we're dealing with full-blown pathology of that sort here - no BPD or its cousins. Definitely some ego issues, I think, but lower in scale than the above.

Well, I'm still in talking-around mode because of the toxic friends concern (even if husband is sharing inappropriately, these people are a complex part of the problem). I hope I provided enough detail to get some more of your thoughts. Thanks for your reply and sharing this info.


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