# Coping with carnal knowledge



## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

HI, I am seeking advice and some kind words about what I have been dealing with. In short for this thread, the red flags of infidelity have been flying at full mast now for a while, and in the middle of it all, after seeing a text from my wife to "a real close guy friend" ("I love you so much baby"), she is of course in denial of any wrong doing...that is just the way she talks to her friends (not me by the way). 
I decided to start tracking her phone records, which is all that I have, but they do speak volumes to me once I started logging events and her texts, calls, and apparent messenger (data) usage. 
I have tried to reason with her without telling her that I know all of this, but of course she denies any wrong doing.
She started working as a bar tender (she is age 50) this spring after being unsatisfied with her job. We used to go up there as a couple, but the bar drama just wore too much on me. I am full time school and full time work, so I am very limited in my available time. Her friends I could live with or without, and I am not very personable as it is.
Over the past 5 months she has been hanging out every day after work for about 2-6 hours. Of course she says that I am busy and she doesn't want to be home bored. 
I feel like I have been replaced first by her friends, and now by her friend in need. Who she "doesn't speak to"...but I have the records to prove otherwise. 
I am just tired of her not being close to me. This story goes back YEARS (27 years marriage).
I just need some understanding and guidance, I have turned to my boss and a few others, but really, I need more outlets to help guide my actions. This is eating me up inside.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed she would not put up with it so why are you? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. She is showing you and your marriage absolutely no respect whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

bryanp said:


> If the roles were reversed she would not put up with it so why are you? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. She is showing you and your marriage absolutely no respect whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

There you go.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Being Nice or being Passive is not going to resolve this for you. She is not going to come back to the marriage with a simple easy conversation. Logic is not going to work on her.

I think you need to do some deeper digging to verify her location after work. Is she really at the bar or is she going off somewhere? I think you need to put a VAR in her car and possibly another in the house if there is a location she disappears to in your home.

With more data you can get a much more accurate understanding of what is going on. Perhaps she is having a bit of a mid life crisis and is feeling disconnected from you. So then you need to do some marriage counseling and also some self reflection and self improvement. Perhaps she is on some wild sexual fantasy ride with everybody at work. In which case you will find out and can take strong actions in accordance with your values and boundaries.

For now, stop talking to her about what she is doing. Don't let on that you are gathering intel. If you find something, don't reveal it until you've gotten opinions on this forum on how to proceed. Never reveal your source of information to her!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Here is how to get more evidence than you know what to do with.

FWIW bar is as toxic an environment there is.

DO NOT CONFRONT YET!!!! Implement the below:

VARs

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Velcro-Heavy-Duty-Hook-and-Loop-Fastener/25553585
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or the aisle with the fasteners like screws.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.

Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh the amazon pen var might also work wonders for you.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

You got perfect, succinct, to the point advice from weightlifter in the above post. Please do yourself a favor and do what he recommends as soon as possible. Additionally, check out mobile-spy.com for a good cell + pc/lap top monitoring software. You will need approximately 5-15 min of uninterrupted access to any phone you want to install the software on, depending on your comfort level with phone operating systems. You will also need the password. You may wish to consider buying a prepaid debit card using cash, and registering it with an alias so you can order things without them appearing on any bills that come to the house. I used mobile-spy to verify my suspicions in the early stages of everything, it is very much worthwhile if you are suspicious and she is deleting texts/history off of her phone. Best of luck, and keep posting here, it is a good community.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So between school and work I'm guessing you don't have much time for your wife? How do you suppose that's good for a marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

To a degree I have to agree with Lifestooshort here. If youve 2 full time programmes in your life there appears to be little time left for family? Whilst your checking out the advice weightlifter offered you may want to quietly consider what exactly you bring to the table in this relationship. The last thing you want to reveal and be told that your not there but other guys are. No matter how faithful a spouse if the other is not around temptation will eventually get the better of a lonely person. This is not a critisism of you or what your going through, it simpley an observation from your own text where your wife took a bar job not to be lonely.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She does not respect you. How much longer of this combined school and work? You should blast away on her relationship with her friend.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Get the vars suggested. Low tech and easy to use. 

WL you should consider a rental program for the units.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Would have to be complete kits or shipping costs would darn near equal the cost of everything. Would prolly have to include GPS etc. 

Problem is deposits etc unless it was a pay for all of it then get a refund based on rent arrangement. Not sure how much demand there would actually be LOL. 

Just doing my thing here to help people get the truth even if it hurts.

end hijack
Hope OP is doing as suggested.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

replacedhusband said:


> after seeing a text from my wife to "a real close guy friend" ("I love you so much baby"), she is of course in denial of any wrong doing...that is just the way she talks to her friends (not me by the way).


This is not so much a red flag as a smoking gun. You can just about count on the fact that this is a PA. If she's says she loves him and is calling him baby....please.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't dig for more intel, as the other posters have suggested. But you should assume it's a PA and ask yourself if you can live with that "when" you confirm it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP JUST DONT CONFRONT UNTIL YOU GET REAL EVIDENCE. 

Weak confronts are usually DISASTERS!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Have you ever taken the time to follow her along with placing the vars.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Working in a bar is poison for a marriage. It's a breeding ground for infidelity.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

replacedhusband, if you say this has been going on for the last 27 years, then it's time for you to look elsewhere for companionship. I know that one can grow complacent in a marriage and learn to put up with mental abuse, but when you discover that you aren't even 2nd or 3rd in her considerations, it's time to move on.
Dump her and you will find relief.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth”


Along with all the other good advice you got from WL's post, remember this. It's true for him, true for me, and true for a lot of us. We've "been there done that." You only need to sort the wheat from the chaff, apply what applies to your life, ignore the few that don't ring true, and keep moving forward with your life, no matter the consequences. You can't stand still or you will rot.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Healer said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again: Working in a bar is poison for a marriage. It's a breeding ground for infidelity.


Yeah everyone looks better through those beer goggles.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

badmemory said:


> This is not so much a red flag as a smoking gun. You can just about count on the fact that this is a PA. If she's says she loves him and is calling him baby....please.


Badmemory and others - in your experience and on this board is the consensus if you see the "I love you" and "baby" in the texting it's almost always a PA?

It's hard to imagine it wouldn't be with that combination.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Pault said:


> To a degree I have to agree with Lifestooshort here. If youve 2 full time programmes in your life there appears to be little time left for family? Whilst your checking out the advice weightlifter offered you may want to quietly consider what exactly you bring to the table in this relationship. The last thing you want to reveal and be told that your not there but other guys are. No matter how faithful a spouse if the other is not around temptation will eventually get the better of a lonely person. This is not a critisism of you or what your going through, it simpley an observation from your own text where your wife took a bar job not to be lonely.


Of course, I never meant to imply her affair is his fault, just that if he's not spending much time with his wife things like this can happen. Marriages can't survive without enough quality couple time, and based on his description they can't be spending enough time together. Who could possibly think his wife getting a job at a bar combined with him not spending much time with her will lead to a good outcome?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Get the VAR and GPS then gather evidence. Do not confront until you run it by here so you do not make a mistake.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Until you get a smoking gun your old lady will keep dening.

Onced you have the smoking gun you can show her the confidence that you do in fact know what she is up to and it then will be her choice to change or lose you.

The smoking gun will give you the ammo to go nuke this behavior and expose this to everyone.

Just remember if any one asks were you got the intel...lie, tell your old lady and anyone else, that you hired a lawyer who hired a PI to protect you from any more deciet.

The smoking gun will be painful as hell but the VAR and GPS intel will give you a clear direction on how to deal with your old ladies deniel.


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## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

I got the smoking gun this time, it was a simple password to her FB that she stored in the first place i finally had a chance to look. I busted her out with the printed FB messages to him (too disturbing to mention) as she was leaving her hair appointment yesterday. I love the woman to death, but the trust is completely gone. I have had the VAR and a GPS but haven't been able to gather anything of value with those. Still on the downlow. 
As for my dual full time roles of school and work, it is a necessary evil that shouldn't be avoided, but should be applauded. The late nights stopped a few weeks ago, but she was just appeasing me until i really pressed it on her yesterday. But, I will not let my guard down.
So, another chapter has begun in my life, but I will remain on here. Thank you everyone for the decent advice.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

You are indeed unhappy of all this situation..... You no longer trust her and she gives you reason for it. Certainly you are not crazy, your gut is telling you something wrong!
You dont need this shxxt! YOU DONT DESERVE IT AT ALL!
So I think you should go dark on her, not looking jelous or mad, but only indifferent.... keep a close eye always and start telling her that to come out clean soon, or you will file.... because you need mindpeace and right now you dont... like i said: YOU DONT NEED THIS SHXT!


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## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

Oh yeah, the other smoking gun currently happens to be the mysterious medicine documentation that came one day in the mail, the same medicince she's used in the past for urinary tract infection...that she religiously gets whenever she hasn't had intercourse for a period of time. The medicine was issued at full price from Wal Mart...we have a free pharmacy attached to our clinic. Found the medicine in her work bag with an unknown Dr. name on it...searched the name and found out that the Dr. treats at the local free clinic...again, not our primary care provider. I am saving that one if I end up with more evidence. The previous post of mine was the final warning shot, the next time everyone finds out to include the kids and parents, and her closest friends that think the world of her.


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## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

jack.c said:


> You are indeed unhappy of all this situation..... You no longer trust her and she gives you reason for it. Certainly you are not crazy, your gut is telling you something wrong!
> You dont need this shxxt! YOU DONT DESERVE IT AT ALL!
> So I think you should go dark on her, not looking jelous or mad, but only indifferent.... keep a close eye always and start telling her that to come out clean soon, or you will file.... because you need mindpeace and right now you dont... like i said: YOU DONT NEED THIS SHXT!


I really appreciate your support! I have given my last warning to her; i think everyone knows how i feel about her (l still literally drool over her all the time) and I owed that one last chance for myself.


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## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

To expound more, I know that I had something to do with leading her to her vulnerability for that player to pick up on her with, my past personal issues led me to resent her for not quitting smoking with me as well as compounded by her heavy drinking which in my past my mother was an alcoholic. I said some not nice things to her during that time which pushed her away I am sure, but i never thought to this point. 
Through this affair I relearned how to adore her better qualities, which makes it so much worse with how she is treating me. 
I like to think of myself of having a strong character, but inside I am more probably afraid of the inevitable.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Replaced Husband,

While I sympathize with your situation, I want to focus on YOUR behavior for a moment...

You mentioned that you "aren't very personable" and that you're working and going to school. You resent her for not quitting smoking with you and drinking heavily. You say that you're tired of her not being 'close' to you, yet you also admit that you pushed her away (emotionally). You also say that you feel like you've been 'replaced' by her friends, but isn't it possible that SHE may also feel 'replaced' by your work and school? 

Even if you manage to convince her that what _she's_ doing is 'inappropriate', what plans do you have for addressing _your_ issues in the above paragraph? 

She may stop 'socializing' altogether. But she also might realize that there isn't much of a reason to stay in the marriage if she's married to someone who isn't very personable, is resentful of her, has unrealistic expectations (expecting her to successfully quit smoking just because YOU did), has pushed her away emotionally, and isn't around much to begin with.

I actually see your marriage as 'salvageable', IF you can both start being honest with each other. 

Being a little humble wouldn't hurt either...

Vega


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Is she still working at the bar? Is she still staying after work and drinking? If either is true, your marriage is toast.


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## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

Well, we quit smoking together twice with her encouragement. School is also highly encouraged by her. Work is an abvious necessary evil that I don't work any overtime nor do i hang out at the office. I go straight home and prepare meals for the two of us as well as pick up because she is still at work, so we can have time together. I do school work while she as at work so we have time together. But when she doesn't come home from work to a nice meal sitting on the table for a nice evening together, I think that is a problem. The 8 months that I was neglecting her emotional needs was relatively short to the 20+ years of recieving very little with regards to emotional support from her. Try deploying for a year to an overseas land and sending one possibly two letters a day while receiving one possibly two letters a month. It hurts. But I never quit trying.
If it is unrealistic to expect her to come home to a loving husband then I must have to reprogram what is proper. I have apologized more than enough times to her for my behavior, without ever recieving one apology for anything.


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## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Is she still working at the bar? Is she still staying after work and drinking? If either is true, your marriage is toast.


She is still working at the bar, it provides her with so much more satisfaction and I really enjoy seeing her spin there...her choices however... 
She has stopped disappearing all night out anymore, I have started going out to socialize with the friends, but at the cost of my schoolwork and sleep. Her drinking has subsided somewhat, and i have made mention that it worries me how much she does. She has to have an outside source tell her that though.
Right now I think we have a good work in progress to recover, but only time will tell; that and I am working harder to satisfy all of her needs (emotional and physical) in the hopes that she can release that other relationship.
I realize that it will take time for her to recover or accept the new loss in her life if she actually choses to completely dump him. It obviously gave her much pleasure, and in order for this relationshipto work, i have to step into that role somehow again.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She is still seeing the other man? If you are ok with that, why would she quit? She is cake eating and you are rugsweeping.
Besides telling her your way or the highway, you need to get tested for stds and demand no contact with any om.


Letting her work in a bar just means you condone her affairs.


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## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> She is still seeing the other man? If you are ok with that, why would she quit? She is cake eating and you are rugsweeping.
> Besides telling her your way or the highway, you need to get tested for stds and demand no contact with any om.
> 
> 
> Letting her work in a bar just means you condone her affairs.


Why would I ever condone the relationship with the other guy? Working in a bar is an obvious breading ground for temptation, but that doesn't mean a person isn't capable of making the right choice; it is a challenge to resist the temptation. Besides, individuals make their own choices to do right or wrong. She made the wrong choice and I am giving her the chance to not make any more wrong choices. If she does then I am done.


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## replacedhusband (Sep 9, 2013)

I actually came to this site seeking support to help me cope with what has happened and to learn how to manage the situation, not sit here and blast my wife's nor my own actions. For those that provided me with some good input to ponder, I appreciate the assistance.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

replacedhusband said:


> Why would I ever condone the relationship with the other guy? Working in a bar is an obvious breading ground for temptation, but that doesn't mean a person isn't capable of making the right choice; it is a challenge to resist the temptation. Besides, individuals make their own choices to do right or wrong. She made the wrong choice and I am giving her the chance to not make any more wrong choices. If she does then I am done.


Some people do condone such things. I would make her get another job. Yes people have to make their own choices but removing the temptations make the choices that much easier. I asked my WW about boundaries and crossing them. She said the first time it was difficult but the subsequent times it was as though the boundary didn't exist it was so blurred. Your WW already crossed so her decisions and judgments are proven wrong already and by giving her the chances and choices is just like condoning the relationship and playing with the proverbial fire. 

You can hand feed a lion in its cage but then you have no grounds to complain when you are bitten and attacked. It is better to throw the food from a distance and not have the opportunity to ever be bitten or attacked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

I am not sure how much you have read on here. I suspect, not enough. Read the stories and the patterns. You are coming across as weak. I know and understand your point of view, but the simple fact is you are wrong to think that doing it the way you are is the right way. She is in an affair fog and the fog MUST BE LIFTED in order for you to have any chance at all for her to be yours and yours alone. She must remove herself from the "breeding ground" that she works at. She has already proven she is not mature enough to handle the temptations there. She must write a no contact letter to the other man and you must see it and you must make sure she sends it to him. You must monitor her and verify and most importantly she has to do the heavy lifting as far as your marriage is concerned. You are acting like a doormat right now and this gives you a 0% chance at a positive outcome. Expose her behavior to her friends and family and lift her from the fog she is in. If you want your old wife back it is your only chance to get her.
You seem to be listening more to yourself and not the advice given here. The advice here is based on personal experiences and hundreds of others that have come through here. The advice you are being given is sound and I am not trying to hurt you but to the contrary I am trying to help. Stop being a wimp and put a stop to her behavior yourself.
Others on TAM, please chime in and help me wake this guy up, he is going to lose his wife, lets wake him up and give him at minimum a shot at R. We can't guarantee how she will react but we can guarantee she will continue with her behavior if you continue to allow it.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> So between school and work I'm guessing you don't have much time for your wife? How do you suppose that's good for a marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I supose working to support his family and going to school to better himself (For supporting his family) Is not good for the marriage WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:scratchhead:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

replacedhusband said:


> Why would I ever condone the relationship with the other guy? Working in a bar is an obvious breading ground for temptation, but that doesn't mean a person isn't capable of making the right choice; it is a challenge to resist the temptation. Besides, individuals make their own choices to do right or wrong. She made the wrong choice and I am giving her the chance to not make any more wrong choices. If she does then I am done.


Your wife has already proved she cant work in a bar. She has already proved she can't be faithful. She has already proved she doesnt love you.

You are in an open marriage. None of my friends would have a wife that went to bars without them. I would divorce a wife that even suggested she wanted to work in a bar. Your wife has proved she cant work in a bar and keep her pants on.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

replacedhusband said:


> I actually came to this site seeking support to help me cope with what has happened and to learn how to manage the situation, not sit here and blast my wife's nor my own actions. For those that provided me with some good input to ponder, I appreciate the assistance.


Your mad because someone tells you what you already know? You know this isn't going to work. You have known what she's like for twenty years. All the love is on your part. What you say about how she has treated you says it all.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

replacedhusband said:


> She is still working at the bar, it provides her with so much more satisfaction and I really enjoy seeing her spin there...her choices however...
> She has stopped disappearing all night out anymore, I have started going out to socialize with the friends, but at the cost of my schoolwork and sleep. Her drinking has subsided somewhat, and i have made mention that it worries me how much she does. She has to have an outside source tell her that though.
> Right now I think we have a good work in progress to recover, but only time will tell; that and I am working harder to satisfy all of her needs (emotional and physical) in the hopes that she can release that other relationship.
> I realize that it will take time for her to recover or accept the new loss in her life if she actually choses to completely dump him. It obviously gave her much pleasure, and in order for this relationshipto work, i have to step into that role somehow again.


What is more important? School or marriage?


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

replacedhusband said:


> Well, we quit smoking together twice with her encouragement. School is also highly encouraged by her. Work is an abvious necessary evil that I don't work any overtime nor do i hang out at the office. I go straight home and prepare meals for the two of us as well as pick up because she is still at work, so we can have time together. I do school work while she as at work so we have time together. But when she doesn't come home from work to a nice meal sitting on the table for a nice evening together, I think that is a problem. The 8 months that I was neglecting her emotional needs was relatively short to *the 20+ years of receiving very little with regards to emotional support from her. *Try deploying for a year to an overseas land and sending one possibly two letters a day while receiving one possibly two letters a month. It hurts. But I never quit trying.
> If it is unrealistic to expect her to come home to a loving husband then I must have to reprogram what is proper. I have apologized more than enough times to her for my behavior, without ever receiving one apology for anything.


Having read your post above, I don't understand why you want to stay with this person, irregardless of infidelity ?

Just reread the bolded part above. What is it that you gain from a marriage to a person who has given back so little emotionally to you for so long ?

Sounds to me like your marriage has been bad for a long time, if not perhaps for its entirety, irregardless again of your current situation.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

OP, you seem to be a person disconnected from emotions. You seem to look at everything from an emotionally disconnected perspective. 

That is why people are having such a hard time giving you advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

You're very light on details, but that's understandable since you don't want your identity to show thru in the thread. But from what you wrote, I assume that your wife had an affair that resulted in sexual encounters with another man who frequents the bar. Common sense dictates that you need to remove your wife from the situation completely since she 1) had an affair with someone associated with the bar (customer or worker), 2) has a history of drinking to excess and 3) has quit smoking. 

Insisting that she quit working at the bar should be nonnegotiable.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> She is still seeing the other man? If you are ok with that, why would she quit? She is cake eating and you are rugsweeping.
> Besides telling her your way or the highway, you need to get tested for stds and demand no contact with any om.
> 
> 
> Letting her work in a bar just means you condone her affairs.


He has allowed her treat him like crap for 27 years, if I read this correctly...why would she stop now...:scratchhead:


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

replacedhusband said:


> Why would I ever condone the relationship with the other guy? Working in a bar is an obvious breading ground for temptation, but that doesn't mean a person isn't capable of making the right choice; it is a challenge to resist the temptation. Besides, individuals make their own choices to do right or wrong. She made the wrong choice and I am giving her the chance to not make any more wrong choices. If she does then I am done.


someone who has already proven she can NOT resist the temptation should completely remove herself from it, if she really wants to make her marriage work

people who have gambling issues and really want to quit STOP going to the casino...

my guess is she took this job at the bar solely to do what she is doing, meeting new people, meeting men...she needs to quit imnsho


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I hope that you have been tested for STD's. If the roles were reversed do you honestly think you wife would be saying I sure hope that the line he ends the relationship with his lover? If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP Uh

To be clear.

The facebook messages showed she was having a sex affair with some guy? Or emotional only?

UTI pills make me think sex but for clarity sake.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

replacedhusband;4493657 (l still literally drool over her all the time) and I owed that one last chance for myself.[/QUOTE said:


> There's your problem. "I still literally drool over her all the time.
> 
> Second problem. She knows it and she has mastered the manipulation. Maybe if you put your tongue back in your mouth and lay down some boundaries you wouldn't be here with a chip on your shoulder. You saw the messages she sent to the OM and saw what he said in his replies and your still drooling? If anything, you should be raising enough hell that she would finally see that your serious and pissed.
> 
> You can complain until the cows come home and nothing will be resolved unless you step up to the plate and refuse to be treated like a door mat. The choice is yours. Either stand up and have her be accountable for her actions or you'll be drooling all over the place as she gets deeper involved with who ever her OM is and you'll only have a wet shirt from the drool.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

replacedhusband said:


> To expound more, I know that I had something to do with leading her to her vulnerability for that player to pick up on her with, my past personal issues led me to resent her for not quitting smoking with me as well as compounded by her heavy drinking which in my past my mother was an alcoholic. I said some not nice things to her during that time which pushed her away I am sure, but i never thought to this point.
> *Through this affair I relearned how to adore her better qualities*, which makes it so much worse with how she is treating me.
> I like to think of myself of having a strong character, but inside I am more probably afraid of the inevitable.


I have to take issue with this because I know exactly where you're coming from, I've been there, and done that.
You say you had issues with her smoking and drinking, I'm sure these were valid reasons, be it she may have been reluctant to quit them both doesn't condone your behavior with regards to language, but they were valid.

I did the same thing.. looking at the woman you love when faced with the truth about what she's doing and who she is, then looking at yourself. 

We try to find the positives from the wreckage, so we focus on the good points (ah there, that's the woman I love, those are the redeeming qualities we focus on) and yet it shouldn't be up to you just to focus on the good parts. 

She has cheated and is cheating and is doing nothing to stop it. She could be baking cookies for girl scouts, plain just doesn't cut it.

The only redeemer is you. She has/had to take all those bad parts of herself, blow them up and face them head on. Only then can there be progress.

I sadly tried to focus on the good parts, the good moments as justification for sticking with what was a real bad one. Not bad in terms of being evil, just bad in terms of being damaged.

I hope you don't do the same. Good luck to you bud.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am going to make some guesses here since you have not given very much in details.

Coping with the fact your wife has had sex with another man is really hard to deal with. I had emails, conversations, chats and photos. It really sucks. I had to have IC for me and then MC for both of us. 

I worked on taking out my anger with a baseball bat at the cages, running, and trap shooting. Yes I put his face on everything I shot and or hit.

I still have triggers but they subside with time and help. The one thing I am seeing here is rugsweeping. You have not exposed the A and you need to and get it done soon. If you want to save your marriage you need to take firm steps. She has to leave the bartending job. She needs to get checked for STD's right now and give you the results.

Now you need a no contact letter from her to him and you will send it. This will all seem painful to you and it is but it is what you must do to come out of this on the other side in better shape.

Your wife must know that you are willing to file for D. If you do not do these things if she is not already seeing this guy it will happen again.


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## Everafter2013 (Feb 11, 2013)

replacedhusband said:


> She is still working at the bar, it provides her with so much more satisfaction and I really enjoy seeing her spin there...her choices however...
> She has stopped disappearing all night out anymore, I have started going out to socialize with the friends, but at the cost of my schoolwork and sleep. Her drinking has subsided somewhat, and i have made mention that it worries me how much she does. She has to have an outside source tell her that though.
> Right now I think we have a good work in progress to recover, but only time will tell; that and I am working harder to satisfy all of her needs (emotional and physical) in the hopes that she can release that other relationship.
> I realize that it will take time for her to recover or accept the new loss in her life if she actually choses to completely dump him. It obviously gave her much pleasure, and in order for this relationshipto work, i have to step into that role somehow again.


First, retract your apology for having a full plate on your hand. You are away from home to WORK and STUDY. I could understand if your wife was fed up with you (read: fed up, NOT cheat on you) if you neglect your wife to gamble, go out and drink all the time, etc. If her loneliness justifies her cheating, that means all military personnels' spouses would be justified to cheat. There comes a time in a marriage where one spouse must take the backseat just to be there and support their partner. You won't be in school forever. This is the test of her personality, obviously she only has the look. 

Second, you are very vague about what you found out. Did you find out that she has been having an affair (EA? PA? both?) with the "friend"? If yes...what do you want now? Do you want this to stop? Do you want to stay with her at whatever cost to your sanity? 

Third, you said that you are waiting to see if she will choose to dump the friend. Excuse me, didn't she already make the choice? She has chosen to keep you in the background while she is out with the friend. She cannot make that any clearer. As long as you let her, she will continue this unless of course the friend dumps her. 

There is not much that we can say here. You have made up your mind that you will just continue your course of action of waiting and waiting for her to wake up. People on here say it won't work. You just don't like what you hear. 

Finally, from what you write yourself...your wife has been pretty crappy for so many years. It is a one-sided open marriage. You are the one hauling the load, she is pretty much a single woman who only think about herself. You wrote her two letters a day and you are lucky if you get more than one a month? Are you serious? And you still can't see the obvious here? 

From reading several posts of male BS here who just want to nice their WS back into the marriage, I hear the same theme...the WS is a hot and attractive woman. There are more than 6 billion people on earth, she is not the only hot and attractive woman on earth. Go for hot and attractive woman by all means. However, if physical attractiveness is a priority for you, isn't it better if YOU are known as an attractive guy, not the cuckold who is married to an attractive woman who treats him like sh*t?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Work, study and marriage......


A lot of people saying "don't apologise, you are doing it for her." 

Relationships are about chemistry, you have to works at them. If you are always working I other things, the chance if a relationship failing increases. I am not justifying it, I am simply saying I believe it is so.

I also mad the assumption that I could carry a heavy workload of career and study, and that it would not take a toll on the marriage. I would have said my wife agreed with the priorities I set and the commitments I made, yet that was part of where she fell into her affair. From my reading here, I think this is a mistake a lot of males make.

Someone mentioned military spouses and I agree, there needs to be commitment from the spouses. But my understanding is that the divorce rates among military are still unusually high. 

Does your wife REALLY want you to carry that load and be unavailable?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Two smoking guns. Mistreatment for years. I am very confused at the OP's postings. 

What did the FB messages say?

Did he confront her about them?

Sorry but I am confused at what he has as far as evidence and what he is really doing.


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## moto164 (Aug 4, 2013)

replacedhusband
please spend a few days reading some of the longer threads.
Lots of great Info to help you.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

I hope this not a TJ if so someone please give me a nudge. As long as we can remember, we are taught to move forward. To progress everyday as long as we live. To strive to learn, be better people, husbands /wives Mothers & Fathers sons & daughters.

We are taught in currant thinking that we are solely responsible for our own journey /happiness and its pursuit. We must be better for ourselves in order for us to be better for others.

This is a man this age that is clearly at some sort of crossroads professionally and or personally. It is as we can all imagine quite an undertaking. 

If he has not discussed this with his wife well he of course should have. But what were his choices if he did not have his wife’s complete support. If that is the case, as an individual he must do what he needs to do to fulfill what is taught to us all our lives.

If his wife takes the position through her “Rationalization Hamster” that she needs more from outside the marriage, maybe that’s a discussion she should have had with him.


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