# Desperately Tempted to Stray, Suggestions?



## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

I posted a few months ago about the situation between my husband and myself in the section for those considering separation or divorce -- But a recap: My H and I have been married for five years. Within those five years we've lost a stillborn and three miscarriages. We took a break for the past two years. And in the summer of this year I found out that he had already had a vasectomy without telling me, a year ago. This has been devastating to the point where I couldn't look at him for months, and some days, I still can't. 

He's already told me he'd be willing to reverse the surgery but I can tell it's not something he has any desire to do. I got very nice feedback on the last post, and since then I thought we made progress and I've gotten some very good advice, but now I find myself with this new problem:

It's becoming painfully clear to me that I'm surrounded by men who won't have any qualms about giving me what I want. And maybe it's just my desperation talking and maybe It's a train of thought that I should stop before it starts but it's getting harder to ignore with every passing day. 

I love my H-- no matter what we've been through. I don't want to betray him and I know this will do just that. But I'm stuck here. I don't want to leave him, and I don't want to make him do anything he doesn't want to do but what about what I want?


Women get their miracles after the same pain I'm living through, and I just want my chance? 

Am I being selfish? What can I do?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

wherewegofromhere said:


> : My H and I have been married for five years. Within those five years we've lost a stillborn and three miscarriages.
> 
> Am I being selfish? What can I do?


Sounds to me... like you have some serious depression
and what you might think about doing is getting into a serious 
program with a therapist as soon as possible

before you get yourself into boatloads of problems, maybe somne from the men who are all around you seeming to be able to give you what you want
as what they may seem to be willing to give... may not be
what it actually will be

add that on top of the depression you already have
and your cooking up the recipe for things you may never dreamed of... nightmare like stuff.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

It really and truly is ok to divorce someone in order to have children. It really - really is. But you cannot get pregnant and then hope he will just accept another mans child. That is not just wrong - but disaster - he WILL have the baby dna tested due to his vasectomy....

I do think what your H did was wrong - but that does not justify an affair.

How old are you?



wherewegofromhere said:


> I posted a few months ago about the situation between my husband and myself in the section for those considering separation or divorce -- But a recap: My H and I have been married for five years. Within those five years we've lost a stillborn and three miscarriages. We took a break for the past two years. And in the summer of this year I found out that he had already had a vasectomy without telling me, a year ago. This has been devastating to the point where I couldn't look at him for months, and some days, I still can't.
> 
> He's already told me he'd be willing to reverse the surgery but I can tell it's not something he has any desire to do. I got very nice feedback on the last post, and since then I thought we made progress and I've gotten some very good advice, but now I find myself with this new problem:
> 
> ...


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

Preso, 

I can understand how you would come to that conclusion, and if I am depressed I can promise it isn't anymore than any other woman would be in my condition. But I don't feel depressed right now, I feel determined. And for the first time, in a long time, motivated. 

But maybe I am setting myself up for boatloads of trouble.

MEM11363,

I am 28 years old and my husband is 31. He wanted children as badly as I do, but I think the miscarriages were too much. We love each other but I'm not sure how this is going to work. I don't want to make him reverse the surgery if he doesn't want to take the risk of losing the baby again, but I'm not ready to stop trying. 

I thought considering divorce so I could pursue this would make me some kind of monster but I don't know what I can do. I love my husband but he isn't leaving me with a lot of choices here.


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

I am just wondering, when my husband had his vasectomy, I had to sign a waiver stating I agreed with this procedure and would not present legal action against the hospital. 

I thought that was a fairly common practice. Did you not have to sign anything?


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

This is going to sound very cold and clinical, but I'll do it anyway...

You're 0 for 4 with this man. That's bad. You guys may not be wonderfully compatible genetically and your body may be purposely ending the pregnancies. Your husband has NO interest in having children as well.

Time to try a new semen supplier. Do the right thing and divorce him and find someone new. Fall in love with someone new.

Very sad story though.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

True story. My nephew and his first wife tried to conceive for 5 years. Doctors told them they were both fertile. 

They divorced and each remarried someone new. They have each now had multiple children with their new partners and without the help of fertility treatments/drugs of any type. 

It is odd and I admit to not understanding it but it is true. 

I think Atholk is right. And I feel for your husband. But in the depths of a mutual despair he abandoned you by having this surgery and deceived you by not telling you about it promptly. While I am sorry for him - I am 10 times more sympathetic to your cause. As the husband - we don't get to abandon our wives when they need us most - regardless of how much it hurts. That is just part of the job description. 





wherewegofromhere said:


> Preso,
> 
> I can understand how you would come to that conclusion, and if I am depressed I can promise it isn't anymore than any other woman would be in my condition. But I don't feel depressed right now, I feel determined. And for the first time, in a long time, motivated.
> 
> ...


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> True story. My nephew and his first wife tried to conceive for 5 years. Doctors told them they were both fertile.
> 
> They divorced and each remarried someone new. They have each now had multiple children with their new partners and without the help of fertility treatments/drugs of any type.
> 
> It is odd and I admit to not understanding it but it is true.


That's both a sad and happy story. I hope your nephew and first wife have peace with each other.

My wife and I are from differing countries, and with a strong genetic compatibly. (I am by nautre a quiet shy man, but became exceptionally assertive around my wife when we met - it's a long story, but we both became unhinged over the other instantly) Our "make a baby sex" was so effortless I'm refered to as "the baby sniper". First attempt was probably successful on the first try and healthy daughter. Second attempt worked on first try as well, but miscarried about couple weeks after the pregnancy test. She was very sad for about 3-4 weeks... and pregnant again with healthy daughter #2. There is an element of luck here, but also your genetic matching can adjust the odds importantly.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I agree it's wrong to be sterilized without consulting your spouse. That much is a given, but the reality of the situation is men grieve too when they loose a child. My wife and I have had six kids together, and three miscarriages along the way.

Every child we lost was followed up by a prompt pregnancy, so that helped, but in reality none of these kids could actually be replaced. I still think about them. We literally got pregnant on our wedding night, and I lost that child while I was still in the service. I can remember walking across our quarterdeck after receiving the news. The officer of the deck had no idea what had transpired, so he made a little joke about my tears. I nearly took his head off. Nothing became of the incident, but I spent a lot of time with the Chaplain before I got things right again with God.

What I am saying is it hurts, even large tough guys who are trained to break and kill things, WWGFH. What he did was decidedly wrong, but for less money than a divorce you can have this thing reversed. Time is the biggest factor in these things, so find yourself a decent counselor and a skilled surgeon and make this right. You owe him at least that. Hear his reason at least. I know he feels exactly the same way you do WWGFH, he just chose another way to deal with his pain. He chose to hide from being hurt again by getting sterilized. Our society sucks, men aren't encouraged to let others know we actually have feelings. Situations like this are just the sad product of that conditioning. Way to go class. LIL


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

No as a doctor, I didn't even have to go to the education classes. They waived everything. I said, "we've been married for 15 years with six kids, and you want me to go to what classroom, and fill out what coloring book?." That was nuff said from their end, but my wife was certainly in the loop on the decision. We didn't feel comfortable with the risk of O.B.C., and it was far less complicated than having her fixed. So there you have it, not always.
LIL


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

StrongEnough, 

Not only was I never asked to sign a waiver, I never even saw a hospital bill. I know I was never looking for any signs of betrayal but I feel like I would have noticed a hospital bill. He went to great lengths to keep this from me. It's ughh. I can't even -- I'm glad you and your H came to that decision mutually. 



Atholk, 

Thank you very much for the feedback, I'm grateful. It doesn't sound could and clinical. It's honest and I appreciate that. I know we've lost a lot, believe me, I can't forget it. 

He hasn't told me that he doesn't want kids. He's told me he doesn't want to do with anymore risky pregnancy. He keeps suggesting surrogacy and adoption because medically, I'm the problem. But we've seen doctors and I've even gone alone to see specialist and there are treatments and I have options. I love him so much and I know he loves me and maybe by doing this I'm not being fair. 

I don't know, is it okay to pick up and start a new life because of this?


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

wherewegofromhere said:


> He hasn't told me that he doesn't want kids. He's told me he doesn't want to do with anymore risky pregnancy. He keeps suggesting surrogacy and adoption because medically, I'm the problem. But we've seen doctors and I've even gone alone to see specialist and there are treatments and I have options. I love him so much and I know he loves me and maybe by doing this I'm not being fair.
> 
> I don't know, is it okay to pick up and start a new life because of this?


That you have a medical issue regarding pregnancy success was need to know information that I would have given different advice for. This is all far more complex now.

Agree with Lastinline on this one. He can't go through another failed pregnancy, and just as importantly can't watch you go through another failed pregnancy.

I do think it's foolish for men to get vasectomies if they have wives remotely interested in getting pregnant, but in this case I think he's just gotten desperate.

I don't know on this one. Very difficult situation.


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

MEM11363,

Your story is inspiring and I want children but I guess I'm not sure I want to leave my husband. But my love for him doesn't always trump my desire for a baby. I don't know why I feel this way.


Lastinline,

You and your wife are lucky to have such a lovely family. And that's all I want. I know that this has hurt my husband, I've seen it and I think that's why he doesn't want to try anymore and maybe I should respect that. But the breach of trust makes it harder for me to consider his feelings when he clearly didn't consider mine. I saw him grieve, I know what this did to him.

And I completely agree with you, maybe he was trying to save us both from some pain by doing what he did. But it made things worse. I know he will get it reversed if I ask him to, but is it right to ask him to go along with something I know he doesn't want to go through again? 

I know I owe him the chance to explain, but I think he owes me too. Does that make sense?


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

Atholk said:


> That you have a medical issue regarding pregnancy success was need to know information that I would have given different advice for. This is all far more complex now.
> 
> Agree with Lastinline on this one. He can't go through another failed pregnancy, and just as importantly can't watch you go through another failed pregnancy.
> 
> ...


 I know this is tough, I guess that's why I'm so desperate for help. I appreciate anything you give. 

It's distressing. I guess I have a lot to think about.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Please tell me he put some semen on ice somewhere.


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

I don't know, maybe he'll tell me in a year. 

I doubt he has his swimmers on reserve. I don't know what the reversal procedures entails but it would mean the world to me if he would do it. 

But I'm probably asking for a lot.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Ok... so why were you guys seperated for two years then? Just related to the pregnancy drama? Why did he get a vasectomy in the middle of a seperation? Was he hoping to get back together with you but have the procedure just sneak in under your radar?


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

Atholk said:


> Ok... so why were you guys seperated for two years then? Just related to the pregnancy drama? Why did he get a vasectomy in the middle of a seperation? Was he hoping to get back together with you but have the procedure just sneak in under your radar?


 We took a break from trying for two years. After the still born and the miscarriages, my doctor thought I needed the time to recover, physically. I went back on birth control and we were married--living together, the whole nine and not separated. And from what I understood-- we were on the same page about everything. After my last miscarriage he told me not to be discouraged and after some time we would try again.

Until I came to him in August of this year telling him I was ready to try again just to have him confess to already having a procedure last year that would make this impossible. 

I mean I honestly don't know how I didn't see this. He plays sports and he's pulled his groin once or twice but who knows if any of his aches and pains were even sports related. I literally keeping scanning and scanning every memory I can retrieve to try and see where I was or what had me so distracted that I didn't see. 

I guess he thought after two years I would forget I wanted kids. Maybe I'd be over it and he'd have enough time to sway me on a different method. 

He can't explain to me clearly his reasoning. Or maybe I just don't understand what he's saying.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

What you wrote makes perfect sense WWGFH. However, you need to have this conversation with your husband, and sooner rather than later. 

P.S. be careful about men with "no qualms", in my experience they generally aren't worth a [email protected] Someone who truly loves you won't always give you what you want; just what you need. LIL


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

wherewegofromhere said:


> We took a break from trying for two years.


Ah ok. I thought you said you were seperated, not just not trying to have a baby for two years.

Um... jeepers. That's a dirty dirty trick he pulled on you then. He's had the vasectomy and you've been on birth control pills the whole time???

Speaking in general terms... I strongly suggest to married men to never get a vasectomy. If their wife ever wants another child it creates a serious hazard in that the wife can become quite biologically activated to seek out sources to provide what she needs to make that happen. Which is of course exactly where you're at.

It all comes down to if he has semen on ice and/or is willing to reverse the vasectomy. If those are options, go that route. If not... I believe you'll quite likely just be driven to seek alternative suppliers of what you need and damn the consequences. Once you come off the birth control pills your libido will kick in fully and... well... like I always say. _Nature finds a way_.

He really had no right to make that decision in secret.


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

lastinline said:


> What you wrote makes perfect sense WWGFH. However, you need to have this conversation with your husband, and sooner rather than later.
> 
> P.S. be careful about men with "no qualms", in my experience they generally aren't worth a [email protected] Someone who truly loves you won't always give you what you want; just what you need. LIL


Thank you, LIL

I want to have this conversation with him, and I've tried. It's just everything he did makes sense on an emotional level. I mean-- I hate that he did it. I think did more damage than he will be able to grasp -- But I get it. Or at least I can still be subjective enough to understand why he would think he had to do what he did. 

I know there are scumbags out there, men and women alike. And I guess the seriousness of what I'm suggesting hasn't really hit me but it's like I'm being bombarded with this completely base caveman logic. Man has Sperm, H has none, Me want kid-- Go to Man. 

And when my mind gets like that -- and trust me, it's scary. 
Important things like being married become "details"-- If you can believe it. 



> It all comes down to if he has semen on ice and/or is willing to reverse the vasectomy. If those are options, go that route. If not... I believe you'll quite likely just be driven to seek alternative suppliers of what you need and damn the consequences. Once you come off the birth control pills your libido will kick in fully and... well... like I always say. Nature finds a way.


 Atholk, I can't even tell you how many times I've made mental notes of things that are just outrageous in retrospect. 

At any rate, I'm off my birth control pills. And maybe like you said-- it's contributing to this desire to find a different supplier. 
I mean I won't scare you with how far and how thorough my mind has taken this plan. But it's like you said.. Thinking clearly is not something I trust myself to do. 

But posting on here was a great idea. Because now it's not just me any my head anymore. 

I know I have to talk to my husband, I guess I don't know what to say to convey these feelings I have. They're conflicting emotions and I don't want to contradict myself in front of him.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

I agree with LIL about the men that have "no qualms". If you do try with another man, your long term happiness probably requires going the route of finding someone else you want to spend your life with. Not just the "my baby's Daddy" nonsense that seems to be the rage.

I refer to the "caveman logic" you reference as *The Body Agenda*. On one hand we are more than just complicated biological machines, on the other... it sure does explain a lot. If you take an evolutionary psychology perspective on this, the neo-cortex evolved late in our development. Meaning the highly complex intellectual processing is an adaptive "tool" for the rest of the body to use. Most people think that the "me" is simply our mind, and the rest of us is some sort of transportation device for the "me". I believe the body has its own agenda and programming and can at times simply override the intellect as other body systems take control. 

I'm sure we've all seen, heard of, or personally done something completely illogical when it comes to sex at some point in our lives. Quite commonly those illogical moments usually involve semen getting into a vagina. Funny that.

This all sounds like it can be used as a justification for just cheating on your husband. I'm hoping you take it as an explaination for what you are feeling and experiencing. Like I said earlier, I do not adovate vasectomy to anyone because of exactly this situation.

Talk to your husband.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

From my knowledge of psychology....whenever people are in a tough situation (or have some basic need un-met), the survival part of the brain (amigdala - 'performs a primary role in the processing and memory of emotional reactions') becomes hyperactive, which is why and when we tend to become more animalic (anger, fear, depression, lust - ring a bell? all higly emotional moments when we tend to loose control. Why? because survival mode kicks in). 

In these situations we do things we wish we hadn't done. Now when that little part of the brain that is faster in processing (due to survival) takes over, that's when you need to show self control, ignore it and realize what is the logical, rational thing to do in the situation. 

I'm talking from my experiences and knowledge now. When those two sides of the brain are both working usually this happens that you just described : They're conflicting emotions and I don't want to contradict myself in front of him. ' 
Contradiction comes from the logical side and animalic (desperate, in survival mode) side of you. Or as pictured in various movies, the little angel and devil on your shoulders. Freud gave them names two, the alter ego and something else which i don't remember. 

Normally, outside a crysis, the animalic side would be asleep, or preocupied mainly with activities such as eating or toilet. 

Depression, the way i see it, is when you're stuck in a 'have to survive' state of excitement. Judging a couple of things you said, and how you must have felt for the past years due to your situation, you might be depressed. If you are, and you suddenly feel desperate all day long and constantly preocupied by this situation, your perception on everything will be different.

Your mind will scan for any solution to this problem, and you'll go to the easiest most primitive one (another male), which you know, might work, but not in this world (where people have houses, incomes, marriage and other such factors).

Get your head clear first and then expect a solution. And remember that thoughts aren't actions unless you make them. Right now it probably scares the hell out of you that your only option is cheating (the only option you see anyway), so that brings the thought back all day because if you're scared of it, you'll give it tons of attention. 


Ask yourself some rational questions. 
First of all analyze what your chances are to NOT miscarry if you were to do this with another man. Second of, do you want a baby regardless of who it is with? The vasectomy part is another story, I personally think your hubby got sick of seing you miserable over conceiving, and gave it a break. Whether it's right or wrong, depends on each person's perspective.


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## wherewegofromhere (Sep 1, 2009)

Atholk said:


> I refer to the "caveman logic" you reference as *The Body Agenda*. On one hand we are more than just complicated biological machines, on the other... it sure does explain a lot... *I believe the body has its own agenda and programming and can at times simply override the intellect as other body systems take control*.
> 
> I'm sure we've all seen, heard of, or personally done something completely illogical when it comes to sex at some point in our lives. Quite commonly those illogical moments usually involve semen getting into a vagina. Funny that.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what it feels like.

No I understand. I would never try to justify cheating. I think more than anything I'm just looking for reassurance that my severe desire for this or even considering these things is not in any way unnatural. 

I know I have to talk to my husband about this, and I feel a little better now. If people here could understand how or why I felt this way, it shouldn't be so hard for him to understand either.


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## Terra (Nov 14, 2009)

I appreciate you are trying out and testing your feelings here. That's a good thing. I've had my share of drama and trauma inside my 30 year marriage. Sometimes its a good idea to confront emotionally charged matters in the office of an excellent counselor/therapist in order to move forward in a way that best supports the marriage--- not simply the individuals. This seems like one of those watershed situations. 

You both have your work cut out for you. Your husband should have consulted you prior to the vasectomy. Nevertheless, you need to share with your husband (probably at a therapist office who will be able to help both of you understand your feelings) your desire to go outside your marriage to now try to become pregnant. Then together with the help of good counseling, perhaps create a mutual plan (that includes boundaries and better communication) to expand your family. I'm sure yours and your husbands reactions and actions to your great losses are not just mere grief and disappointments but also represent a part of each of you deserving of one anothers empathy, understanding and love.

This extra work could be an opportunity to enrich your marriage in a way that will help it endure, grow and strengthen beyond your own childish expectations. The truth is, if it wasn't this particular problem and drama there would likely be some other sort of drama to come your way. You see, at some point our "us" needs to grow up and be able to handle adversity head on. This is a time in your marriage you and your husband need to create a strong infrastructure. In away, this infrastructure will be your first baby together ---metaphorically speaking. Otherwise, still something else will come along, maybe intrude and again you'll surely fail one another. Its tedious stuff, not as exciting as the early courting stage. Its a bit like creating a business plan for a small company. In the end, you'll have laid out fertile ground for your marriage to exist a lifetime.
Hope this helps.


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