# Not christian wishing for transcendent sex



## Minuit à Paris

I have been with my husband since i was 17. After 13 years of marriage I am 33 and disullisioned.

I wanted a spiritual marriage, not chrisian, just spiritial with a connection to the universe.

My husband claimed to be spiritual when we met but he is not, he is material to the extreme. 

I feel so sad because I wont leave him (we have children) but I morne the loss of what could have been. 

There is so much power in sexuality.


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## bahbahsheep

I know what you mean...
do you feel that because of your husband's materialistic nature, it has stopped you from reaching your spiritual potentials?

it is true that sexuality has a lot of power in it... which is perhaps why buddhists or people working in the church do not enter marriage - to seek that spiritual purity


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## Benevolence

Go away for the weekend... on a retreat or a camping trip. Maybe he will appreciate nature and the freedom from his possessions.


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## Serif

Spirituality for its sake alone is rather pointless. Connecting to the universe is kind of a dangerous idea, I mean, consider this: nature is beautiful, magnificent, awesome. Yet in the same stroke of the brush it is brutal and violent and powerfully destructive. People venerate "mother nature" and yet for all her gifts, she's a fickle ***** who seems to have no quam with this shattering and that burning or a bear tearing the skull off a fawn just to snack on its brain. Yep, this girl's a keeper ;-)

Spirituality is beautiful. There is something deep within each of us that screams, "there is more!" And sex...oh sex... it is the single human activity that encompasses all that it means to be human. The sight of your partner's skin, the smell of their sweat, taste of their lips, sound of their breathing, and feel of their body. Then you add to the physical sensation the emotional paradox of simultaneous vulnerability and safety, fear and confidence. And if you happen to be of the same belief, then you have a melding of the spiritual selves as well. 
Physical, emotional, and spiritual all in one activity. If focus is given to each element of the act, then you achieve something phenomenal.
However, most men need to be trained to see past the physical. Most need to be trained to make love with their minds and hearts and hands before they let the soldier march.

My half a cent:
For you: spirituality must have a purpose, what's yours? An old adage says, "If you chase two rabbits you'll lose them both." or "If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time."
For him, is he a man if his word or not? If he said he is spiritual, then challenge him to step up and engage in the less physical aspects of life.

Cheers!


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## mupostori

stop being an anti-Christ it is the spirit of the devil has closed . The spirit world does exist but like everything there is good spirit and bad spirit . The good one is the Holy spirit have read of "Good morning holy spirit" by benny hinn to get a clear understanding of the spiritual world. you are not wrong in your quest for a spiritual life but you need the holy spirit .be warned the devil exist in the spiritual


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## Faiora

It sounds like you didn't spend enough time getting to know your husband before you got married. There's not much you can do about the past, though. 

You may be able to find some small ways to have the sexual connection you want, without going outside your husband's values. Define exactly what it is you're looking for, and then find the overlap. I bet it's there... just hidden.


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## eyuop

I can give you an honest Christian response.

Christians believe God created sex, since God created men and women. He created them in equality -- both equally in His image. In the book of Romans (New Testament), it talks about how people began to worship created things rather than the Creator. In this process they miss out on having a relationship with their Creator and trading it for having intimacy with what He has created.

This would be like appreciating a beautiful painting or piece of music without any acknowledgement of the artist, nor any credit or praise given to the artist's amazing ability to express himself/herself. Sex (in the Biblical view) is an expression of God's desire for intimacy and pleasure to be a part of our relationship to our lover.

My strongest and most amazing spiritual experiences have happened when I recognize that my wife is truly a gift from God, who created her in His image as His daughter -- and I am fully aware of this when we become "one flesh". We sometimes even pray with each other in the "afterglow" and thank God for making our bodies the way He did so we could feel so much intense pleasure, beauty and oneness.

I personally believe that if you seek the One who created your body and sex itself, He will give you what you desire.


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## Faiora

eyuop said:


> In the book of Romans (New Testament), it talks about how people began to worship created things rather than the Creator. In this process the miss out on having a relationship with their Creator and trading it for having intimacy with what He has created.
> 
> This would be like appreciating a beautiful painting or piece of music without any acknowledgement of the artist, nor any credit or praise given to the artist's amazing ability to express himself/herself. Sex (in the Biblical view) is an expression of God's desire for intimacy and pleasure to be a part of our relationship to our lover.


The least prideful artists I know are happy to have people enjoy their work, and delighted to hear how people enjoy it. The most prideful are those who jealously guard their rights to their work, and prefer to be told how amazing they are (as opposed to their work). 

Just an observation.


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## salamander

Hi there! I'm not sure what spiritual language you like to speak. But in my free-stylin buddhist view, you cannot have judgments or expectations of another's progress. Whenever I feel judgment coming on, i contemplate the chant, Om Mani Padme Hum, "Behold! The jewel in the lotus!". This chant reminds me that all of us are like the lilly pad deriving sustenance from the mud. We are all material, come from the primordial slime. It is never for one person to stand in judgment on another's spiritual progress, for to do so reveals the Shadow Projection of our own split-off attributes.

That being said, I am a fan of Barbara Carellas' book, "Urban Tantra". She was also on an episode of "Strange Sex", where she gave herself an endless breath orgasm inside an mri machine! 

Great question, happy to meet such an inquiring person here 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eyuop

Faiora said:


> The least prideful artists I know are happy to have people enjoy their work, and delighted to hear how people enjoy it. The most prideful are those who jealously guard their rights to their work, and prefer to be told how amazing they are (as opposed to their work).
> 
> Just an observation.


This is a good and worthy observation, but it falls short in the entire context of Christianity. For instance, most artists I know didn't offer their only son as a sacrifice to all so that people could enjoy their art for all eternity.


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## forevermemorable

Its NOT about you! You made a commitment at the alter and it doesn't matter if your feelings for each other grows cold, you are not pleased sexually with your husband, or you have indifferences! Fulfill your oath and commitment that you gave at the alter before friends, family, and God. So you married your boyfriend when you were young and naive and were hoping to use marriage as a means to figure out who your husband is. We all make mistakes and this is a hard one to live with, but you will NEVER have it better than how you have it now. "But me, me, me, I, I, I, want more in life! I want to explore the sexual utopia universe." It is an illusion in your mind that is NOT reality! Every married person experiences these thoughts and ideas of something better with someone else. These thoughts need to be forsaken and put far from our way of thinking.

Marriage is about commitment and honor! If you cannot stay committed to your husband now, what makes you think you can stay committed to any other person? You will NEVER have it better than what you have now...even though it is rough and tough...this is as good as it gets. BUT, you can make it better for yourself. You can take your eyes off of your selfish way of thinking and be the best wife and mother your can be to your family. You can decided today that you will make the most of each days as it presents itself and decide to live for purpose and fulfillment. You can have joy and happiness today, if you allow yourself to and fulfill your commitment and love to your husband, until death do you part.

What will you choose? How will you choose to live your life in your thoughts and actions?


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## LightHouse

ForeverMemorable,

BAM! POW! I love Truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faiora

forevermemorable said:


> Its NOT about you! You made a commitment at the alter and it doesn't matter if your feelings for each other grows cold, you are not pleased sexually with your husband, or you have indifferences! Fulfill your oath and commitment that you gave at the alter before friends, family, and God. So you married your boyfriend when you were young and naive and were hoping to use marriage as a means to figure out who your husband is. We all make mistakes and this is a hard one to live with, but you will NEVER have it better than how you have it now. "But me, me, me, I, I, I, want more in life! I want to explore the sexual utopia universe." It is an illusion in your mind that is NOT reality! Every married person experiences these thoughts and ideas of something better with someone else. These thoughts need to be forsaken and put far from our way of thinking.
> 
> Marriage is about commitment and honor! If you cannot stay committed to your husband now, what makes you think you can stay committed to any other person? You will NEVER have it better than what you have now...even though it is rough and tough...this is as good as it gets. BUT, you can make it better for yourself. You can take your eyes off of your selfish way of thinking and be the best wife and mother your can be to your family. You can decided today that you will make the most of each days as it presents itself and decide to live for purpose and fulfillment. You can have joy and happiness today, if you allow yourself to and fulfill your commitment and love to your husband, until death do you part.
> 
> What will you choose? How will you choose to live your life in your thoughts and actions?


The problem with this argument is that often, BOTH people would be happier if they were no longer together. I'm not saying that's the case in this particular situation, but there are situations where a breakup/divorce would let both people live happier, more fulfilling lives. 

I think it comes down to priorities. If you put God before everything, then I guess you need to sit down and have a chat with God. I'm not religious myself, but I can appreciate that some people have that as their legitimate priority. 

If you put the happiness and well-being of the people around you first, then you need to make your decisions on that basis. A commitment is no good if it's not working for anyone involved. 

It does confuse me a little, as an atheist, that God would want people to be unhappy. I see religion as generally a good social construct (except for the gay-bashing and other bigotry), so I tend to think Christianity's God is benevolent and cares about (in fact, loves) people. But I guess that's a whole other thread in itself.


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## forevermemorable

Faiora said:


> It does confuse me a little, as an atheist, that God would want people to be unhappy.


Happiness is temporal. Happiness does not last. Life is not about happiness in my opinion. Life is about being at peace and having joy. Joy is having a deep abiding confidence that all is well, no matter the circumstances.

God wants all men to be at peace, but unfortunately, God does not always intervene in our lives to control us like puppets or robots. We have this marvelous gift called freewill. We often blame God for our problems or we blame God for all our problems. God is not to blame! Man decides his or her own destiny and path that he or she wants to take. God did not forced someone to commit adultery, or commit murder, or to lie, or to cheat, or to steal. God does not always stop a disastrous marriage from happening. Sometimes God does intervene for whatever reason. I am not God and He can do as He pleases.

I firmly believe with all my heart that if someone is in a wrong marriage, they are there because of choice. Let me explain before you jump to conclusions and cast stones at me. I believe that if someone truly committed their relationship with their boyfriend or girlfriend before God and truly seek out His desires for marriage, they will truly know for utterly certainty whether they should marry so and so. This was the case with my wife and I. We sought out the Lord through prayer, fasting, and reading of the Bible and God spoke to each of our hearts individually with confirmation. How did my wife and I know we ought to marry and be together for the rest of our lives. The Lord spoke to my heart Matthew 7:24-25, "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock." The "Rock" spoken of in this passage of Scripture, speaks of Jesus Christ. Jesus is saying that if we build our relationship upon Him, we will be firmly planted and make it. I felt strong about this passage and believe with all my heart that God was speaking it to my heart and mind in regards to marrying my wife.

My wife on the other hand, God spoke differently to her and on the very same day as He spoke to my heart. My girlfriend at the time had a song given to her that goes like this, "On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand." And so, without speaking to each other on the phone, we wrote what the Lord had spoken to us about coming together in marriage and having our marriage founded upon Jesus Christ. And we both received our snail mail on the same day and it was like reading our same thoughts towards each other.

"But I don't believe in God" you might say. Or, "I don't believe in the Bible and religion" you might say. Then I guess its a guessing game. You might as well just pull the lever of the slot machine and hope your lucky sevens come up and throw a pair of dice and maybe it will work out and maybe not. Truth be told, I don't know how any marriages make it apart from God. What do you stand on, to make you through it...happiness? Happiness is temporal, so as long as you are happy, you remain with your spouse, but the moment you are not happy, you high tail out of there, no matter if there are kids involved. I think this is a selfish way of thinking. Life is not about others bowing down to me or serving me (i.e. "as long as my spouse is making me happy, than I will remain married to him or her), but serving others. Life is about putting other's needs before your own. True love is patient, kind, not provoked, does not take into account the wrongs that have been suffered, does not think evil, rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, endures all things." If you have a different view of what love is, than it is not love, but selfishness!


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## Faiora

forevermemorable said:


> Happiness is temporal. Happiness does not last. Life is not about happiness in my opinion. Life is about being at peace and having joy. Joy is having a deep abiding confidence that all is well, no matter the circumstances.


What you call joy, I call happiness. That's semantics to me. 



forevermemorable said:


> God wants all men to be at peace, but unfortunately, God does not always intervene in our lives to control us like puppets or robots. We have this marvelous gift called freewill. We often blame God for our problems or we blame God for all our problems. God is not to blame! Man decides his or her own destiny and path that he or she wants to take. God did not forced someone to commit adultery, or commit murder, or to lie, or to cheat, or to steal. God does not always stop a disastrous marriage from happening. Sometimes God does intervene for whatever reason. I am not God and He can do as He pleases.
> 
> I firmly believe with all my heart that if someone is in a wrong marriage, they are there because of choice. Let me explain before you jump to conclusions and cast stones at me. I believe that if someone truly committed their relationship with their boyfriend or girlfriend before God and truly seek out His desires for marriage, they will truly know for utterly certainty whether they should marry so and so. This was the case with my wife and I. We sought out the Lord through prayer, fasting, and reading of the Bible and God spoke to each of our hearts individually with confirmation. How did my wife and I know we ought to marry and be together for the rest of our lives. The Lord spoke to my heart Matthew 7:24-25, "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock." The "Rock" spoken of in this passage of Scripture, speaks of Jesus Christ. Jesus is saying that if we build our relationship upon Him, we will be firmly planted and make it. I felt strong about this passage and believe with all my heart that God was speaking it to my heart and mind in regards to marrying my wife.
> 
> My wife on the other hand, God spoke differently to her and on the very same day as He spoke to my heart. My girlfriend at the time had a song given to her that goes like this, "On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand." And so, without speaking to each other on the phone, we wrote what the Lord had spoken to us about coming together in marriage and having our marriage founded upon Jesus Christ. And we both received our snail mail on the same day and it was like reading our same thoughts towards each other.


I take no issue with anything you've said here. It sounds like you and your wife had a solid basis for your relationship to begin with, and share some common ground for that foundation to stand on. Having the same priorities as your SO is probably the best indicator for a healthy, happy (joyful) relationship, and it sounds like you share a faith with your wife, and that it's similarly important to both of you. 

The thing that concerns me (about less healthy relationships), is that often people will make a commitment to someone that doesn't share their priorities in life, or that is otherwise wrong for them. I agree that they are there because of choice. But, they could similarly leave because of choice. How is the decision to divorce worse than the decision to marry the wrong person? I think that in many cases, divorce is *the right thing to do.* And yet, it's apparently unacceptable in many churches.



forevermemorable said:


> "But I don't believe in God" you might say. Or, "I don't believe in the Bible and religion" you might say. Then I guess its a guessing game. You might as well just pull the lever of the slot machine and hope your lucky sevens come up and throw a pair of dice and maybe it will work out and maybe not. Truth be told, I don't know how any marriages make it apart from God. What do you stand on, to make you through it...happiness? Happiness is temporal, so as long as you are happy, you remain with your spouse, but the moment you are not happy, you high tail out of there, no matter if there are kids involved. I think this is a selfish way of thinking. Life is not about others bowing down to me or serving me (i.e. "as long as my spouse is making me happy, than I will remain married to him or her), but serving others. Life is about putting other's needs before your own. True love is patient, kind, not provoked, does not take into account the wrongs that have been suffered, does not think evil, rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, endures all things." If you have a different view of what love is, than it is not love, but selfishness!


Having something to believe in gives many people hope, and for that alone, I have respect for others' belief systems. I get my hope from another place, which by no means makes me any better (or worse) than anyone else. 

As I said before, I really think it comes down to priorities. Atheists and agnostics actually have slightly lower divorce rates than christians, which does invalidate the notion that God is necessary to a successful relationship (especially since atheists and agnostics aren't typically part of a social group which stigmatizes divorce, so divorce is more acceptable to them). Here are some statistics from a 2008 Study by Barna Research Group:

Population Segment / Have Been Divorced

All adults / 33%

Evangelical Christians / 26%
Non-evangelical born again Christians / 33%
Notional Christians / 33%
Associated with non Christian faith / 38%
Atheist or agnostic / 30%
All born again Christians / 32%
All non born again Christians / 33%

(note that due to margin for error, the atheist/agnostic scale is likely closer to average than indicated - same for the non-christian faith group and evangelical christians. Also note these statistics have all increased since the 1998 study that preceded this one. Then, atheists/agnostics had a 21% divorce rate, and on average all christian groups were at 26%)

In my mind, when a divorce occurs, it is usually because at least one person in the relationship has already given up, and is no longer trying to make the relationship work. They may even take advantage of the situation, thinking the other person won't leave them because they've been bound by the commitment of marriage. So I disagree that it is necessarily selfish to file for divorce. If your spouse has checked out already, then I think filing for divorce is the responsible thing to do, to benefit both people AND any children involved. 

I'm a child of divorced parents, and I can definitely say my life would have been worse if my parents had stayed together, probably even if they had worked things out. My life hasn't been messed up - I'm successful in a job I like a lot and I'm in a happy marriage. I spend my free time volunteering and learning new things, and I'm not sure how much better things could get (but I guess I'll find out!)

You talk about happiness as something that doesn't last, and say that when it runs out, things can fall apart. That God is necessary to a relationship. 

Well, I think God is probably necessary to _your_ relationship, because it's the priority you share with your wife, and it is the foundation you have built your relationship on. That's a wonderful thing, and please know that I have respect for that. 

My husband (a Catholic) and I (an atheist) have built our foundation on other priorities, which in our case translates to common goals. We care about each other's individual needs (in fact, I've probably dragged my husband to church more times than he's dragged me - because we make each other follow through with the things that are important to us), and we encourage each other every day to strive towards the goals we don't share, so we both can be fulfilled. But at the end of the day, we both want a clean & comfortable place to call home, and a best friend to come home to. 

We've argued like any other couple, of course (I mean, you can't go 12 years without fighting with anyone you live with), but even during times of high stress, we both always know we're a team, and that we're loved despite it all.

I don't think that is any less legitimate.


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## Faiora

forevermemorable said:


> True love is patient, kind, not provoked, does not take into account the wrongs that have been suffered, does not think evil, rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, endures all things." If you have a different view of what love is, than it is not love, but selfishness!


I missed this bit in my reply.

I disagree on principle with any statement which reads "if you don't agree with me, that means you're _____" (selfish), regardless of whether it's the word of God or not. I'm pretty sure your bible tells you it's not your job to judge people, as well.

With that said, I do think all these things about love. And, I think Christianity has some very good guidelines for people to lives their lives by.


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## eyuop

Faiora said:


> I missed this bit in my reply.
> 
> I disagree on principle with any statement which reads "if you don't agree with me, that means you're _____" (selfish), regardless of whether it's the word of God or not. I'm pretty sure your bible tells you it's not your job to judge people, as well.
> 
> With that said, I do think all these things about love. And, I think Christianity has some very good guidelines for people to lives their lives by.


And as a Christian myself, I appreciate the way you converse with other Christians on this forum. You are very gracious and you deserve the same. Thank you for your thoughtful posts and for moving toward mutual understanding.


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