# Im lousy in Bed.



## SockPuppet

Wifey just dropped a bombshell. Im truly surprised because I recently got the "Im falling in love with you again" letter, and she thinks I have supposedly found her G-spot, and stiumlated it on multiple times to climax. During actual intercourse, I ensure she enjoys herself before I finish, so this was kind of a shock.

Initially she called me up at work and said she wants to have a talk. I knew that meant something bad and pressed her, telling her its BS to call me, and leave me wondering what about. She fessed up and said it was about all the lousy sex we have been having lately.

This isnt about sex. This isnt about me being bad in bed.

I have come very far with my wife, and trying to be the best man, husband and person I can be. There is a little stinging sensation in the back of my head, where the wound is. Nobody wants to hear they were party to poor sex. 
But Im also very happy at the same time. Reason being: she brought this issue up with me. 

Often times in relationships we dont completely open up to our spouses because we fear to hurt them, or maybe we fear that they will misunderstand and take it poorly. Perhaps its a fear of becoming hurt yourself from an indignant partner.

Based on our past history I doubt she'd bring it up, out of fear of hurting me. It does hurt, a little. But thats ok. I will not enjoy everything my wife tells me, and thats ok. Sometimes she will say things, and they will hurt, even if she means them in the best possible light. Im *going* to let it bug me; let the emotions run there natural course because logically I know she isnt saying these things to cause me pain, but to allow us to grow and become better. I love my wife.

She is showing something, perhaps vulnertability, or maybe trusting me not to get overly upset with this info. Either way I feel much happier with my wife since she is comfortable tellnig me she isnt happy in the bedroom.


Can you think of something in your relationship- where your spouse was scared to tell/ask you? Maybe they feared your reaction, or maybe they didnt want to hurt you.


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## MEM2020

Sock,
This is truly great news. This type communication represents APEX intimacy. It is the stuff from which great marriages are forged. 

Over the years, I have received similar feedback from Mrs. MEM. My reaction has been consistent: Help me understand what you want more of/less of and I will put that into practice. And I follow that with: "Thank you for loving me enough, to be completely open with me". 

It is a sign of respect for you. Her belief that you can "handle" the truth like a man, and that in doing so your sex life will improve. 

Well done. 




SockPuppet said:


> Wifey just dropped a bombshell. Im truly surprised because I recently got the "Im falling in love with you again" letter, and she thinks I have supposedly found her G-spot, and stiumlated it on multiple times to climax. During actual intercourse, I ensure she enjoys herself before I finish, so this was kind of a shock.
> 
> Initially she called me up at work and said she wants to have a talk. I knew that meant something bad and pressed her, telling her its BS to call me, and leave me wondering what about. She fessed up and said it was about all the lousy sex we have been having lately.
> 
> This isnt about sex. This isnt about me being bad in bed.
> 
> I have come very far with my wife, and trying to be the best man, husband and person I can be. There is a little stinging sensation in the back of my head, where the wound is. Nobody wants to hear they were party to poor sex.
> But Im also very happy at the same time. Reason being: she brought this issue up with me.
> 
> Often times in relationships we dont completely open up to our spouses because we fear to hurt them, or maybe we fear that they will misunderstand and take it poorly. Perhaps its a fear of becoming hurt yourself from an indignant partner.
> 
> Based on our past history I doubt she'd bring it up, out of fear of hurting me. It does hurt, a little. But thats ok. I will not enjoy everything my wife tells me, and thats ok. Sometimes she will say things, and they will hurt, even if she means them in the best possible light. Im *going* to let it bug me; let the emotions run there natural course because logically I know she isnt saying these things to cause me pain, but to allow us to grow and become better. I love my wife.
> 
> She is showing something, perhaps vulnertability, or maybe trusting me not to get overly upset with this info. Either way I feel much happier with my wife since she is comfortable tellnig me she isnt happy in the bedroom.
> 
> 
> Can you think of something in your relationship- where your spouse was scared to tell/ask you? Maybe they feared your reaction, or maybe they didnt want to hurt you.


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## chillymorn

why would someone marry someone whos lousy in bed?

and then keep it a sceret for years instead of comunicating what they like.


It just amazes me how sex is swept under the carpet in many marriages.

sex is supost to be fun and exciting instead is become stressful and bland.

I'll bet for years you asked what she liked and she would say things like I like it all its all good. 

but I agree with mem that this is an opprotunity to really connect emotionaly through sex. she feels comfortable telling you that she needs more of this or that.


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## Havesomethingtosay

How wonderful????? Lousy is being inconsiderate, way quick on the draw, no foreplay, no orgasm, one position and no enthusiasm....

Which one is it? What a terrible thing to say. All men will say to a woman about sex is is that they unadventurous, or lie there. All else is good. Men however are under so much pressure to perform. 

I think she was nasty to say it how she did and after how many years and orgasms???? 

I know I am lousy too, however I am always ready, there to please, do 95% of the work and make sure she is satisfied on the minimal instructions she gives me.......


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## sinnister

I am happy that you are happy...about her openess.

Now, is it true or does she have unrealistic expectations?


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## Acorn

I got the sense was that the true vulnerability here was not just that she was willing to open up to you, but also and perhaps more importantly, you are willing to open up to her thoughts and really feel them, even though they were not pleasant on the surface.

There are countless "wife weight gain" threads out there, and in many of them the husband made himself very vulnerable as he tried to convey to his wife the effect weight was having on him and the relationship - it is very rare in those threads for the wife (or really any female poster) to be able to be vulnerable and explore those feelings with her husband rather than just put up defensive walls and talk about why those feelings should be unimportant.

It would have been easy for you to dismiss her thoughts, kudos for not going that route.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Ouch, that had to hurt the ego just a tiny bit. Your wife could of rephrased this in a more respectable manner.

My husband and I are very open and our communication is very good. A few weeks ago or so, I asked him to be just a little more adventurous in bed. Perhaps try a new position or a new location. The day he finally gets the courage to, I have a splitting headache that was just about a migraine, so back to the same routine, which isn't bad at all. It's fabulous. My husband and I are very compatible in bed too. We do need to watch it though, I have a permanent neck injury.

I would never disrespect my husband and criticize him in any way. He puts a lot of effort in our marriage and raising our children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesHerMan

Wow, Sock, she calls you up at work to say that we have to talk? I really admire your positive attitude toward this situation,

Yes, it is good that she is willing to be open with you, but it is so important that she choose a good time, and phrase her concerns in a sensitive manner.

Her sexual pleasure is her responsibility, and I hope that she understands she must let you know what she likes without you having to guess and feel like a failure in bed.

Good for you for staying positive, and not letting her insensitivity come between you two.


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## MEM2020

Chilly,
I am always tempted to ask why she didn't say something earlier. Strongly tempted. Instead I say thanks, project a positive vibe and respond to the feedback. Because any other reaction decreases the likelihood of her continuing to feel safe sharing stuff like that.

None of this stuff is easy. I had to learn to like rough edgy sex. And even so my normal routine right "after" is to do this extremely beta thing and say "thank you for loving me". And she responds with "I looooooove you". 



=chillymorn;524378]why would someone marry someone whos lousy in bed?

and then keep it a sceret for years instead of comunicating what they like.


It just amazes me how sex is swept under the carpet in many marriages.

sex is supost to be fun and exciting instead is become stressful and bland.

I'll bet for years you asked what she liked and she would say things like I like it all its all good. 

but I agree with mem that this is an opprotunity to really connect emotionaly through sex. she feels comfortable telling you that she needs more of this or that.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn

MEM11363 said:


> Chilly,
> I am always tempted to ask why she didn't say something earlier. Strongly tempted. Instead I say thanks, project a positive vibe and respond to the feedback. Because any other reaction decreases the likelihood of her continuing to feel safe sharing stuff like that.
> 
> None of this stuff is easy. I had to learn to like rough edgy sex. And even so my normal routine right "after" is to do this extremely beta thing and say "thank you for loving me". And she responds with "I looooooove you".
> 
> 
> 
> =chillymorn;524378]why would someone marry someone whos lousy in bed?
> 
> and then keep it a sceret for years instead of comunicating what they like.
> 
> 
> It just amazes me how sex is swept under the carpet in many marriages.
> 
> sex is supost to be fun and exciting instead is become stressful and bland.
> 
> I'll bet for years you asked what she liked and she would say things like I like it all its all good.
> 
> but I agree with mem that this is an opprotunity to really connect emotionaly through sex. she feels comfortable telling you that she needs more of this or that.


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Ihear ya loud and clear but take a lot of foritude to bite your tounge and be happy theres a break through.It just make my crazy that you try and ask them if they like this or that and usually get the i like it all answer. only to find out she likes something totaly different. talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I think some are scared if they ask for something then they might have to recroicate and they just don't want to put effort into doing anything they think is uncomfortable or travel outside tthere comfort zone.


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## EleGirl

So is Mrs. SockPuppet now going to help teach you what she thinks being good in bed means? Those lessons could be a lot of fun.


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## CH

Every woman likes it differently. Just ask her what she wants, how she wants it. Where do I touch, what do I touch, do I rub, lick, etc...My wife had to re-train me for her as to what she likes and doesn't like.

Guys are easy, find the hole, stick it in, pull it out, rinse/repeat until we release and we're good.


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## MEM2020

I must be a chick on the inside. I liked "paragraph 1" below. Paragraph 2 leaves me cold. 




cheatinghubby said:


> Every woman likes it differently. Just ask her what she wants, how she wants it. Where do I touch, what do I touch, do I rub, lick, etc...My wife had to re-train me for her as to what she likes and doesn't like.
> 
> Guys are easy, find the hole, stick it in, pull it out, rinse/repeat until we release and we're good.


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## hookares

Good luck, Sockpuppet. I heard the same thing after twenty years with my spouse. The only difference was she was handing me my walking papers at the same time.


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## SockPuppet

Had the talk, and I guess Im not the Casanova I thought I was... although, it was her who originally told me that Im super in bed, so I got some playful negging in to the conversation, and over all she ended up showing me what she liked, after telling me so its all good.

There was definetly a blow to my ego, but based upon her tone, she was more uncomfortable with the convo than myself. A little reasurance went a long way, and we had a wonderful talk about our sex life, which is something she is usually uncomfortable with.

Thanks for the replies.

MEM, your bang on, buddy!


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## MEM2020

Sock,
Well done. As the HD partner this will happen every once in a while. In the marriages where it doesn't get addressed, sex dies. 


the talk, and I guess Im not the Casanova I thought I was... although, it was her who originally told me that Im super in bed, so I got some playful negging in to the conversation, and over all she ended up showing me what she liked, after telling me so its all good.

There was definetly a blow to my ego, but based upon her tone, she was more uncomfortable with the convo than myself. A little reasurance went a long way, and we had a wonderful talk about our sex life, which is something she is usually uncomfortable with.

Thanks for the replies.

MEM, your bang on, buddy![/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay

I'm amazed how well you took it. To be called at work and a bombshell dropped like that.

How long have you been married? Do you have a regular sex life? Did you talk about sex at all? Do you have PE or ED problems? Was she willing to work on them with you (if so)? Does she orgasm a high % of times (i.e. 80%+)? Was she vocal ever during sex? Did she ever guide you? Did you ever read a book, a how to manual or instructuional video? Did she? Do you share fantasies? Does she masturbate on her own? Does she have a higher sex drive? Was she more experienced then you?

Cheatinghubby said it right and echoed my earlier post that we men are really in the dark about sex and that no two women are alike. Conversely men are pretty damn simple about the whole thing.

Also there was a post about weight, which I thought was completely off base. Everyone knows when they've put on weight and don't look the same and if their spouse doesn't reassure them (many people look better at a bigger weight), they are not naive. In bed most people are oblivious if things are working (i.e. Orgasms).


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## Halien

cheatinghubby said:


> Every woman likes it differently. Just ask her what she wants, how she wants it. Where do I touch, what do I touch, do I rub, lick, etc...My wife had to re-train me for her as to what she likes and doesn't like.
> 
> Guys are easy, find the hole, stick it in, pull it out, rinse/repeat until we release and we're good.


I see a different take on the whole thread, although I do think the attitude is commendable. 

SOME guys are easy, but some guys can be pretty complex in our view of what we like and don't like. I had a few partners before marriage, but my wife had none. Some of my partners were women with pretty complex needs, and almost twice my age, but some didn't even know what they liked. If my wife were to say that I am a lousy lover, I would want to hear why, but then I would ask her why she never asked me if she was a lousy lover. Really, looking through the posts on this site, I see women who challenge themselves to be aware of their husband's sexual needs, the subtle aspects, but it seems that society at large places women in the expert role, and men as easy to please.

This goes much further. As men, ask yourself what kind of thoughts were going through your mind when you first asked the woman to be your wife. I'd be willing to bet that most of us never question the social paradigm that teaches men that we are fundamentally inept in marriage, and must look to our wife, the expert, for guidance if we want to do right. Other men use this as a cop out, expecting people to pat them on the head and say 'boys will be boys'. Tell me that this isn't tied into the whole nice guy concept. I think we'd have a completely different society if we expected the same maturity in young men, and each of us looked inward before accusing the other. Just saying that more of us would put a real focus on teaching our son's what it really means to be a man.

I'm pretty naive at heart. Took me 22 years to figure out that my wife doesn't have it all figured out, but that I had abdicated the right to call her out on it. Over the course of marriage counseling, it struck me that more and more, the therapist was referring to me as the one who had a deeper understanding of love and sex. Now, neither one of us has a right to claim the authority to say that the other is lousy in this or that. We only have the authority to say that our own needs are not being met, and we have the responsibility to ask ourself if we are doing enough to learn about the other's needs. 

Don't mean to turn this into a rant, and I know that the point of the thread was more of a focus on improved communication. Just think that we all bring unique needs into the sex life, and maybe its not a good thing to say that hers are all encompassing.


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## Enchantment

SockPuppet said:


> Had the talk, and I guess Im not the Casanova I thought I was... although, it was her who originally told me that Im super in bed, so I got some playful negging in to the conversation, and over all she ended up showing me what she liked, after telling me so its all good.
> 
> There was definetly a blow to my ego, but based upon her tone, she was more uncomfortable with the convo than myself. A little reasurance went a long way, and we had a wonderful talk about our sex life, which is something she is usually uncomfortable with.
> 
> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> MEM, your bang on, buddy!


I'm glad it appears to be working out, SockPuppet. 

When I read your first post in the thread, I was a little concerned about why a wife would drop such a bombshell in the manner that she did. I guess maybe it's just me - I'm more a show 'em and tell 'em while we're doin' it than a drop the bomb afterward type.

I admire your positive attitude and your openness/willingness to express this to others and to change. Why? Because when you have that kind of attitude - THAT is what it takes to be a GREAT lover.  I hope that your wife realizes that and admires that in you (and expresses it to you too).

Best wishes.


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## MEM2020

Sock,
A lot of people are critical of the way your wife delivered the message. Hard as it is I try really hard to ignore the delivery style and focus on the fact that my W is trying to improve our marriage. Just like yours was. My guess is that your W has a lot of anxiety discussing this stuff. This was a big leap of faith for her - faith in you. That you wouldn't freak, wouldn't be angry or sullen about it.

She gets props for telling you. Delivery style may come in time, but even if it doesn't it is infinitely better for you to know what is up. 




SockPuppet said:


> Had the talk, and I guess Im not the Casanova I thought I was... although, it was her who originally told me that Im super in bed, so I got some playful negging in to the conversation, and over all she ended up showing me what she liked, after telling me so its all good.
> 
> There was definetly a blow to my ego, but based upon her tone, she was more uncomfortable with the convo than myself. A little reasurance went a long way, and we had a wonderful talk about our sex life, which is something she is usually uncomfortable with.
> 
> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> MEM, your bang on, buddy!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay

Mem11363, really enough of your one size fits all pop-psychology and and your pro-female slants. 

Congrats on 22 wonderful sexual years with your wife and the ability to have worked through all your sexual, needs, wants and desires. Sorry but your approach and instructions does not work for everyone.

This wife was cruel and nasty if the words and setting for the conversation came out as per the OP. 

Halien has some very good points in his post, about women taking responsibility and not placing blame at men's feet.

We are dumb and blind, and clueless when it comes to sex (I'll be the first to admit). I have read books, articles watched videos (not porn) and read countless threads about this (pleasing a woman in bed). But guess what???? Not a single one was from my wife, or has she said much in 25 years, and thus I can just try my best and hope I am doing something right (inside and outside the bedroom). 

The only thing I can point to is whether she had an orgasm or not (fortunately almost always). But I promise you I am no expert and no idea whether I am good in bed or not. 

That's the truth of the matter. 



MEM11363 said:


> Sock,
> A lot of people are critical of the way your wife delivered the message. Hard as it is I try really hard to ignore the delivery style and focus on the fact that my W is trying to improve our marriage. Just like yours was. My guess is that your W has a lot of anxiety discussing this stuff. This was a big leap of faith for her - faith in you. That you wouldn't freak, wouldn't be angry or sullen about it.
> 
> She gets props for telling you. Delivery style may come in time, but even if it doesn't it is infinitely better for you to know what is up.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien

MEM11363 said:


> Sock,
> A lot of people are critical of the way your wife delivered the message. Hard as it is I try really hard to ignore the delivery style and focus on the fact that my W is trying to improve our marriage. Just like yours was. My guess is that your W has a lot of anxiety discussing this stuff. This was a big leap of faith for her - faith in you. That you wouldn't freak, wouldn't be angry or sullen about it.
> 
> She gets props for telling you. Delivery style may come in time, but even if it doesn't it is infinitely better for you to know what is up.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really meant my response to be offered as a point that the approach might need some pretty extensive underlying assumptions if it were to be properly understood by others. Like, given what the OP has gone through, this is good news to hear.

My wife and I went to a marriage retreat, and in the evening where they were covering sex topics, I remember that a woman slipped up and said that her husband of several years was lousy in bed (truth in advertising - she used another word, but I'm chaning it to lousy). The sex therapist asked if he was a selfish guy, and the woman said no. Then, she said, "well, we can only assume that you are a lousy lover too, hon." Point is, my wife and I were not born great lovers. Everything I learned about a woman's needs was from my willingness to learn, and her taking my hand and showing me. Everything my wife learned was the same. If my wife has compex, subtle needs, and I am listening intently, willing, then where does the fault lie if her needs are not met? Saying that I'm stupid is fair, but not that I'm a lousy lover, in my opinion.

Only saying that the same communication between us is worded as "You are not listening to me" , and maybe the stupid part too, because I get easily distracted by her caboose.


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## Havesomethingtosay

Halien said:


> I really meant my response to be offered as a point that the approach might need some pretty extensive underlying assumptions if it were to be properly understood by others. Like, given what the OP has gone through, this is good news to hear.
> 
> My wife and I went to a marriage retreat, and in the evening where they were covering sex topics, I remember that a woman slipped up and said that her husband of several years was lousy in bed (truth in advertising - she used another word, but I'm chaning it to lousy). The sex therapist asked if he was a selfish guy, and the woman said no. Then, she said, "well, we can only assume that you are a lousy lover too, hon." Point is, my wife and I were not born great lovers. Everything I learned about a woman's needs was from my willingness to learn, and her taking my hand and showing me. Everything my wife learned was the same. If my wife has compex, subtle needs, and I am listening intently, willing, then where does the fault lie if her needs are not met? Saying that I'm stupid is fair, but not that I'm a lousy lover, in my opinion.
> 
> Only saying that the same communication between us is worded as "You are not listening to me" , and maybe the stupid part too, because I get easily distracted by her caboose.


Excellent point. It takes two to tango. I got upset that mem11363 came off so biased and on the wife's side in a condescending way (imo). The message was delivered in such a mean spirited, derogatory fashion.

I love the the retreat counselor's words to the spouse. I bet that shut her up (at least for a minute or two).....


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## MEM2020

Halien,
I have a lot of respect for you. I agree that demanding your partner read your mind is a non starter. 



UOTE=Halien;525938]I really meant my response to be offered as a point that the approach might need some pretty extensive underlying assumptions if it were to be properly understood by others. Like, given what the OP has gone through, this is good news to hear.

My wife and I went to a marriage retreat, and in the evening where they were covering sex topics, I remember that a woman slipped up and said that her husband of several years was lousy in bed (truth in advertising - she used another word, but I'm chaning it to lousy). The sex therapist asked if he was a selfish guy, and the woman said no. Then, she said, "well, we can only assume that you are a lousy lover too, hon." Point is, my wife and I were not born great lovers. Everything I learned about a woman's needs was from my willingness to learn, and her taking my hand and showing me. Everything my wife learned was the same. If my wife has compex, subtle needs, and I am listening intently, willing, then where does the fault lie if her needs are not met? Saying that I'm stupid is fair, but not that I'm a lousy lover, in my opinion.

Only saying that the same communication between us is worded as "You are not listening to me" , and maybe the stupid part too, because I get easily distracted by her caboose.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Mem11363, really enough of your one size fits all pop-psychology and and your pro-female slants.


As an avid reader, and perhaps an overly enthusastic dissector, of MEM's posts, I can honestly say that I am amazed that anyone finds a "pro-female slant". Brutal honesty and calling it how he sees it, for _BOTH _sexes, yes. "Pro-female slant", no.


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## Havesomethingtosay

Sawney Beane said:


> As an avid reader, and perhaps an overly enthusastic dissector, of MEM's posts, I can honestly say that I am amazed that anyone finds a "pro-female slant". Brutal honesty and calling it how he sees it, for _BOTH _sexes, yes. "Pro-female slant", no.


In this thread he certainly has been playing the female side in not jumping on Socket Puppet's spouse's callous nasty comments.

Yes some people look to Mem11363 as a messiah. I too find him at times an engaging interesting read, but also as stated think he is off the mark thinking what works on his wife, which at times I find very manipulative, will work on all wives.


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## MEM2020

HaveSTS,
Sock has said his wife has a difficult time talking about sex. In most sexually impaired marriages there is some level of disconnect which is greatly amplified because either one or both partners don't feel comfortable talking about it. If you know Socks history, sex started out great, then became very infrequent, recently got a lot better. When it went bad, his wife wasn't telling him what was wring, she was just starving him. 

There are some situations where fairness and effectiveness come into conflict. In the case of a LD spouse who has a hard time discussing his/her needs, a candid conversation about what they like/dislike can be as rare as a unicorn siting. So when someone like that opens up, my opinion is that you focus on the content, and suck it up if you dislike the delivery style.

This advice is driven by an HD/LD dynamic. Meaning I would say the same thing to an HD wife with an LD husband. Or perhaps a better way to say it is that my advice was targeted at an HD person regardless of gender. 

As for my own situation, I will give you a specific example of exactly this type exchange. At one point when my W had been experiencing painful sex for a long time and had given up on the pain ever going away we had a conversation ruing which she said "sex is a necessary part of a marriage. I know you do things that you dislike, because you know I want you to".
Translation: "I don't Ike sex but you need it so we will have it"

Since then - thank God, her condition/pain has improved a lot due to changes in her diet. But "in the moment" I felt sick. She didn't say it to hurt me. We were having a completely honest conversation and that particular truth just happened to be very hard to hear. Do you think I told her how bad I felt to hear that? I did not. I told her I was sorry this situation was so difficult for both of us and that I he'd it would get better. 

On a separate note, if you think I am female slanted, read my posts to Youngstown. 



UOTE=Havesomethingtosay;526000]In this thread he certainly has been playing the female side in not jumping on Socket Puppet's spouse's callous nasty comments.

Yes some people look to Mem11363 as a messiah. I too find him at times an engaging interesting read, but also as stated think he is off the mark thinking what works on his wife, which at times I find very manipulative, will work on all wives.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Havesomethingtosay

MEM11363 said:


> HaveSTS,
> Sock has said his wife has a difficult time talking about sex. In most sexually impaired marriages there is some level of disconnect which is greatly amplified because either one or both partners don't feel comfortable talking about it. If you know Socks history, sex started out great, then became very infrequent, recently got a lot better. When it went bad, his wife wasn't telling him what was wring, she was just starving him.
> 
> There are some situations where fairness and effectiveness come into conflict. In the case of a LD spouse who has a hard time discussing his/her needs, a candid conversation about what they like/dislike can be as rare as a unicorn siting. So when someone like that opens up, my opinion is that you focus on the content, and suck it up if you dislike the delivery style.
> 
> This advice is driven by an HD/LD dynamic. Meaning I would say the same thing to an HD wife with an LD husband. Or perhaps a better way to say it is that my advice was targeted at an HD person regardless of gender.
> 
> As for my own situation, I will give you a specific example of exactly this type exchange. At one point when my W had been experiencing painful sex for a long time and had given up on the pain ever going away we had a conversation ruing which she said "sex is a necessary part of a marriage. I know you do things that you dislike, because you know I want you to".
> Translation: "I don't Ike sex but you need it so we will have it"
> 
> Since then - thank God, her condition/pain has improved a lot due to changes in her diet. But "in the moment" I felt sick. She didn't say it to hurt me. We were having a completely honest conversation and that particular truth just happened to be very hard to hear. Do you think I told her how bad I felt to hear that? I did not. I told her I was sorry this situation was so difficult for both of us and that I he'd it would get better.
> 
> On a separate note, if you think I am female slanted, read my posts to Youngstown.
> 
> 
> 
> UOTE=Havesomethingtosay;526000]In this thread he certainly has been playing the female side in not jumping on Socket Puppet's spouse's callous nasty comments.
> 
> Yes some people look to Mem11363 as a messiah. I too find him at times an engaging interesting read, but also as stated think he is off the mark thinking what works on his wife, which at times I find very manipulative, will work on all wives.


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Yea, we all read the same stories.... Great sex, than marriage, maybe kids & it wanes, and in this case it has returned. Good for sockpuppet.

*The point was males are not mind readers when it comes to sex. Hopefully you are engaging, enthusiastic, tender, loving and are there to pleasure your partner and make them happy. * But without communication and dialogue and a little instruction, you are frankly in the dark. Gentle suggestions, guidance and leading by the hand and sharing goes a long way. The OP did not say that was his wife's method. 

I'd do practically anything my wife requested within reason to make sex as pleasurable as can be. The problem is she won't share that with me (as is the case with many woman). Conversely at least I know I do that which I stated above and she reaches the finish line the vast majority of times......


----------



## Halien

MEM11363 said:


> Sock has said his wife has a difficult time talking about sex. In most sexually impaired marriages there is some level of disconnect which is greatly amplified because either one or both partners don't feel comfortable talking about it. If you know Socks history, sex started out great, then became very infrequent, recently got a lot better. When it went bad, his wife wasn't telling him what was wring, she was just starving him.


MEM,

I understand, and completely agree with Sock's way of looking at this situation, for him. I'd bet that we all have areas with such troubled histories that we'll take what we can get, and see it as great progress, when it comes to communication. I certainly do.

When it comes to some of the overall roles we force each other in, though, I have to admit that this subject of automatically granting one person authority role, which is NOT what this particular thread is about, is a pet peeve. Granted, biologically speaking, lets call the woman in the marriage the authority in childbearing, and men authorities in ED, but I just think that we men have to step up to the plate and be the kind of man that women need us to be, and not abdicate the role of expert, leaving her feeling all alone, or in some cases, leading to resentment. I wish I could go back in time and deal with some of our marriage imbalances as a real man should, one little step at a time. In that sense, I blame myself for feeling very lonely in marriage. If I had only applied the approach I took to the sexual side of the relationship to the partnership role, maybe I wouldn't be here thinking "what if ...?".


----------



## MEM2020

HStS,
You have a different issue than Sock. Your W is willing to reject you six times out of seven and you are basically willing to trade respect for sex AND on top of that she won't talk to you.

Your W likely doesn't like gentle sex, nor your tolerance of rejection, nor your relentless persistence and last but not least if I hear one more man say "but she has an "o" almost every time I am going to give you an analogy that I freaking promise you will not be able to get from your head.




Havesomethingtosay said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea, we all read the same stories.... Great sex, than marriage, maybe kids & it wanes, and in this case it has returned. Good for sockpuppet.

*The point was males are not mind readers when it comes to sex. Hopefully you are engaging, enthusiastic, tender, loving and are there to pleasure your partner and make them happy. * But without communication and dialogue and a little instruction, you are frankly in the dark.  Gentle suggestions, guidance and leading by the hand and sharing goes a long way. The OP did not say that was his wife's method. 

I'd do practically anything my wife requested within reason to make sex as pleasurable as can be. The problem is she won't share that with me (as is the case with many woman). Conversely at least I know I do that which I stated above and she reaches the finish line the vast majority of times......[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SunnyT

From a woman's pov..... sometimes we don't even KNOW that it isn't awesome enough. Sometimes, the sex we get (as a married woman) is good, really good. And if asked, you wouldn't really think of what could be better (except in my case it would've been frequency...more.... but no one was asking!). 

Anyway.... once ex left, and I moved on... and met the most sensual, sexy man... which makes that past sex life pale ridiculously. Because I didn't know that people REALLY have this awesomeness... lucky me I married this!!!! 

My point is, it's hard to articulate what would be better, or even what isn't working.... if you have nothing to compare it to or base it on. I had O's all the time, we enjoyed different positions (and I THOUGHT I had a pretty good sex life)... but I didn't know about squirting O's, and LOTS more positions, and how enjoyable oils and toys would be (altho I HAD suggested those and got rejected by the ex...).


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

MEM11363 said:


> HStS,
> You have a different issue than Sock. Your W is willing to reject you six times out of seven and you are basically willing to trade respect for sex AND on top of that she won't talk to you.
> 
> Your W likely doesn't like gentle sex, nor your tolerance of rejection, nor your relentless persistence and last but not least if I hear one more man say "but she has an "o" almost every time I am going to give you an analogy that I freaking promise you will not be able to get from your head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, we all read the same stories.... Great sex, than marriage, maybe kids & it wanes, and in this case it has returned. Good for sockpuppet.
> 
> *The point was males are not mind readers when it comes to sex. Hopefully you are engaging, enthusiastic, tender, loving and are there to pleasure your partner and make them happy. * But without communication and dialogue and a little instruction, you are frankly in the dark. Gentle suggestions, guidance and leading by the hand and sharing goes a long way. The OP did not say that was his wife's method.
> 
> I'd do practically anything my wife requested within reason to make sex as pleasurable as can be. The problem is she won't share that with me (as is the case with many woman). Conversely at least I know I do that which I stated above and she reaches the finish line the vast majority of times......


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
As always sarcasm goes over your head and you take what I said at face value. In addition you seem to think you know and understand my wife and that she would act as your wife does if faced with your psychobabble. 

Guess what? She'd happily tell you to pack your bags, hit the road, pay the alimony cheques and don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

And yep my wife does O all the time, and that to me (and her) is very important. 

Doesn't mean though that I don't have a lot to learn. 

As for the last response, thanks to another woman for pointing out that many men have no idea what they are doing and that her current is the best. We men love hearing that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

Have,
As for your situation I only know what you have posted. While it is true I do not know to what degree you were sarcastic, it is also true that you are one of the most consistently angry posters on here. 

While reading your vitriolic posts directed at T2FiO, I began to wonder why his situation was making you so angry and mean spirited. 

And now this is the third angry, critical (in a vague way) post directed at me. 

It seemed you were angry at T2 for failing, and angry at me for succeeding. Angry at your W for refusing to tell you what she likes/dislikes and holding a big financial hammer over your head. 

Going forward, if you disagree with what I am saying, you are welcome to address specific posts. The generalizations are too vague to respond to. 




Havesomethingtosay said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As always sarcasm goes over your head and you take what I said at face value. In addition you seem to think you know and understand my wife and that she would act as your wife does if faced with your psychobabble. 

Guess what? She'd happily tell you to pack your bags, hit the road, pay the alimony cheques and don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

And yep my wife does O all the time, and that to me (and her) is very important. 

Doesn't mean though that I don't have a lot to learn. 

As for the last response, thanks to another woman for pointing out that many men have no idea what they are doing and that her current is the best. We men love hearing that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

MEM11363 said:


> Have,
> As for your situation I only know what you have posted. While it is true I do not know to what degree you were sarcastic, it is also true that you are one of the most consistently angry posters on here.
> 
> While reading your vitriolic posts directed at T2FiO, I began to wonder why his situation was making you so angry and mean spirited.
> 
> And now this is the third angry, critical (in a vague way) post directed at me.
> 
> It seemed you were angry at T2 for failing, and angry at me for succeeding. Angry at your W for refusing to tell you what she likes/dislikes and holding a big financial hammer over your head.
> 
> Going forward, if you disagree with what I am saying, you are welcome to address specific posts. The generalizations are too vague to respond to.
> 
> 
> 
> As always sarcasm goes over your head and you take what I said at face value. In addition you seem to think you know and understand my wife and that she would act as your wife does if faced with your psychobabble.
> 
> Guess what? She'd happily tell you to pack your bags, hit the road, pay the alimony cheques and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
> 
> And yep my wife does O all the time, and that to me (and her) is very important.
> 
> Doesn't mean though that I don't have a lot to learn.
> 
> As for the last response, thanks to another woman for pointing out that many men have no idea what they are doing and that her current is the best. We men love hearing that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


[/QUOTE]

I felt a great deal of empathy and sorrow for T2FIO, along with anger and disdain as to how he handlesd himself, the letters and emails he wrote his wife and his often very haughty attitude. I was conflicted as to his situation. Also if he was honest I found his wife to be a nasty nasty woman.

Mem11363 you seem to like to tell people that you know them and their spouse's better then themselves and love to spout the alpha male mentality as the only solution. Yep it does grate me (but kudos that it works for you). 

Yes I like many here certainly project parts of situations to posts we read and respond to. I certainly do not profess to know it all, but have a pretty good BS detector and certainly have not been off on T2FIO's plight.

You mem11363 have a very unique dynamic with your wife that you have extrapolated to all LD spouses. Really with 1,000's of posts you should consolidate and edit them and get published. I look forward to you signing a copy for me.

Merry Christmas btw......


----------



## MEM2020

HaveS2S,
Ouch.... I really do try not to "spout". I mainly describe what has worked and failed for me as well as general patterns that seem to consistently work (or fail) based on what I read here. 

Seriously though, you're killing me. Below you slam me for spouting an alpha male philosophy. But earlier in this thread, you were angrily denouncing me for encouraging Sock to follow a beta trajectory in how he handles this sex conversation with his wife. 




I felt a great deal of empathy and sorrow for T2FIO, along with anger and disdain as to how he handlesd himself, the letters and emails he wrote his wife and his often very haughty attitude. I was conflicted as to his situation. Also if he was honest I found his wife to be a nasty nasty woman.

Mem11363 you seem to like to tell people that you know them and their spouse's better then themselves and love to spout the alpha male mentality as the only solution. Yep it does grate me (but kudos that it works for you). 

Yes I like many here certainly project parts of situations to posts we read and respond to. I certainly do not profess to know it all, but have a pretty good BS detector and certainly have not been off on T2FIO's plight.

You mem11363 have a very unique dynamic with your wife that you have extrapolated to all LD spouses. Really with 1,000's of posts you should consolidate and edit them and get published. I look forward to you signing a copy for me.

Merry Christmas btw......[/QUOTE]


----------



## MEM2020

SB,
Thank you. I appreciate that. As for your dissections, they are well thought out, focused on the topic and non-inflammatory in tone. On a sort of humorous note, even though you have occassionally told me my advice was poor/foolish/dangerous (in one case I realized you were right, it WAS dangerous advice and I retracted it), you have never come across as "angry lashing out". 

FYI: You have now made enough specific comments (most of which are helpful) that you are welcome to generalize if you like. 




Sawney Beane said:


> As an avid reader, and perhaps an overly enthusastic dissector, of MEM's posts, I can honestly say that I am amazed that anyone finds a "pro-female slant". Brutal honesty and calling it how he sees it, for _BOTH _sexes, yes. "Pro-female slant", no.


----------



## working_together

I think that it's a positive thing that she was able to open up, I guess it was a little blunt, but it depends on communication style, and only you know your wife.

When a couple truly knows one another, they are able to pick up on subtle cues. What I mean is that you would know before she even told you that bit of info. that things were not a good as they could be, and you could have asked her what she wanted less of or more of. But, she also has the responsibility of speaking up, I mean, no one wants "lousy sex". Which she did.

When I was younger I didn't speak up too much about what I wanted, and therefore didn't always enjoy it as much as I could. Yeah, I'd get mine, he'd get his, but later in life I realilzed I wanted much more than that. She may be wanting the same,a little more spice, something different. What I've learned is that men are very eager to please their partners, and really want to be good lovers.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Mem11363 - Truce....

I know you mean well, I will not argue that. I too have grown frustrated with some posters and do acknowledge I come across blunt. 

As far as T2FIO I actually originally registered on this site to respond to his posts. The fact that he has erased entire threads of his I find very telling of his personality and what type of person he is.

If he was my friend and confided what he has written to me I would have told him the exact same things. My blood would boil as to what his wife has done and tell him to prepare for a separation or find an affair partner or mistress and not to accept being treated as he was. I would have also told him not to deliver those emails/letters and apologize and implore counseling..... All of which I have told him in my posts. 

Now here is a thread in the Ladie's Lounge.....

*I don't know what I am supposed to do. I have been with my husband for 8 years and married for 4. I have 3 kids ages 4, 2, and 6 months. I HATE sex. Makes me want to cry almost every time. Sometimes I feel a lot of anxiety during it, or else I feel completely disgusted. It is almost always painful but I think part of it is because I am so tense.

I do think there was probably 3 months that it wasn't this way when we first started having sex and were more like crazy horny teenagers. It has always been painful however.

After this last baby I just don't want to even give him sex as a favor. I don't know if I am right in feeling this way, but it seems like each time we do it, it just reinforces the vicious cycle of me dreading and hating sex. I am considering therapy but the thought of even doing the little exercises make me cringe. I don't want him to touch me sexually AT ALL. I know I am supposed to just give it to him as an act of love, but eventually is it appropriate to say "this is my body and I hate doing this with my body"?? *

The reason I have posted it is that you would have some very pointed comments based on your successes with your spouse and I am happy you have found what works, just don't believe it works for the majority of people. Conversely if it was the husband writing about his wife above, clueless to her issues and just spouting that he was not getting enough, your posts would certainly not help. We only know what one person writes, and there is no one size fits all solution. Your posts, are well thought out, very sincere and certainly an entertaining read (and yes could be published). However they would work only on certain subset, and most importantly work for you. 

And back to the OP. He hasn't been back, nor has he answered my questions. If in the end he has a better sex life with his spouse, good for him. I have posted here as I thought his wife was completely out of line with her comments and her delivery, if he was as I stated a male who at least brought enthusiasm, creativity, caring, listened to instruction and openness into the bedroom.


----------



## MEM2020

Have,
Truce accepted.

And just for clarity, my goal is not to get you to force your w to have sex. But rather to force them to tell you the truth. Often the HD spouse has no idea there partner feels sexual aversion like you describe below. And far from being the innocent victim, the poster below chose to have at least two additional children with this guy after she decided she hated sex with him. Don't you think he deserves the truth?


OTE=Havesomethingtosay;527331]Mem11363 - Truce....

I know you mean well, I will not argue that. I too have grown frustrated with some posters and do acknowledge I come across blunt. 

As far as T2FIO I actually originally registered on this site to respond to his posts. The fact that he has erased entire threads of his I find very telling of his personality and what type of person he is.

If he was my friend and confided what he has written to me I would have told him the exact same things. My blood would boil as to what his wife has done and tell him to prepare for a separation or find an affair partner or mistress and not to accept being treated as he was. I would have also told him not to deliver those emails/letters and apologize and implore counseling..... All of which I have told him in my posts. 

Now here is a thread in the Ladie's Lounge.....

*I don't know what I am supposed to do. I have been with my husband for 8 years and married for 4. I have 3 kids ages 4, 2, and 6 months. I HATE sex. Makes me want to cry almost every time. Sometimes I feel a lot of anxiety during it, or else I feel completely disgusted. It is almost always painful but I think part of it is because I am so tense.

I do think there was probably 3 months that it wasn't this way when we first started having sex and were more like crazy horny teenagers. It has always been painful however.

After this last baby I just don't want to even give him sex as a favor. I don't know if I am right in feeling this way, but it seems like each time we do it, it just reinforces the vicious cycle of me dreading and hating sex. I am considering therapy but the thought of even doing the little exercises make me cringe. I don't want him to touch me sexually AT ALL. I know I am supposed to just give it to him as an act of love, but eventually is it appropriate to say "this is my body and I hate doing this with my body"?? *

The reason I have posted it is that you would have some very pointed comments based on your successes with your spouse and I am happy you have found what works, just don't believe it works for the majority of people. Conversely if it was the husband writing about his wife above, clueless to her issues and just spouting that he was not getting enough, your posts would certainly not help. We only know what one person writes, and there is no one size fits all solution. Your posts, are well thought out, very sincere and certainly an entertaining read (and yes could be published). However they would work only on certain subset, and most importantly work for you. 

And back to the OP. He hasn't been back, nor has he answered my questions. If in the end he has a better sex life with his spouse, good for him. I have posted here as I thought his wife was completely out of line with her comments and her delivery, if he was as I stated a male who at least brought enthusiasm, creativity, caring, listened to instruction and openness into the bedroom.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SockPuppet

To ensure a healthy sexual relationship Wifey and I have started doing instruction sex time. Essentially spouse "A" lays on their back, while spouse "B" provides mind blowing orgasms with spouse "A"'s guidance. Three sessions in (two for her, one for me) and we are enjoying it a lot. We are goofy people though, and all the giggles and chuckles help ease any negative tension that might be looming in the background.

This has changed our sexual dynamic as well, because it used to be more planned out, right before bed kind of thing. Now it can be fun and spontaneous. There has been a tremendous amount of growth and its all due to...... *Communication*

It truly is amazing what the possibilities are when you let your guard down to be completely opened with your spouse. Ive never been bungy jumping before, but Im guess the feeling is somewhat the same, allowing yourself to be completely comfortable with your vulnerability.


Also, there is great input in this thread, and while its not all neccesarily useful to me and my unqiue circumstance, it provides me with differing opinions and mindsets. Since my wife doesnt think the exact same as myself, its a nice reminder to see all of your different opinions on different things, and helps me be more understanding when wifey and I disagree on things.


----------



## MEM2020

Sock,
Congrats. I hope you are also making good use of non verbal communication. The non verbal stuff can be very hot if you learn to read her reactions. The best foreplay or pre foreplay for us is often non verbal. 




SockPuppet said:


> To ensure a healthy sexual relationship Wifey and I have started doing instruction sex time. Essentially spouse "A" lays on their back, while spouse "B" provides mind blowing orgasms with spouse "A"'s guidance. Three sessions in (two for her, one for me) and we are enjoying it a lot. We are goofy people though, and all the giggles and chuckles help ease any negative tension that might be looming in the background.
> 
> This has changed our sexual dynamic as well, because it used to be more planned out, right before bed kind of thing. Now it can be fun and spontaneous. There has been a tremendous amount of growth and its all due to...... *Communication*
> 
> It truly is amazing what the possibilities are when you let your guard down to be completely opened with your spouse. Ive never been bungy jumping before, but Im guess the feeling is somewhat the same, allowing yourself to be completely comfortable with your vulnerability.
> 
> 
> Also, there is great input in this thread, and while its not all neccesarily useful to me and my unqiue circumstance, it provides me with differing opinions and mindsets. Since my wife doesnt think the exact same as myself, its a nice reminder to see all of your different opinions on different things, and helps me be more understanding when wifey and I disagree on things.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## annagarret

This is great, and I am happy for you.

Yes, my husband did shock me with something years ago. We were at a dinner party playing a couples game with friends of ours and one of the questions in the game was "If you could make love to any one of your wives friends who would it be?" I just looked at my husband, he was the first to go, I could tell he wanted to answer but was scared to in front of me, all our friends started laughing and I didn't want him to feel embarrassed. I had a feeling who he would name and I said " It's ok, you can say it" I think once he felt I wouldn't judge or get angry at him he felt at ease and said her name. All the guys laughed at him like he was in trouble and the wives looked at me, like aren't you pissed? But I knew then and there he was put on the spot and I accepted him and he completely let his guard down and he trusted me even if the room didn't. It was a game after all. Since then we feel more comfortable sharing our sexual struggles with each other, like porn (him) other men(me)

Marriage is about transparency


----------



## MEM2020

Great story. Very healthy attitude.



OTE=annagarret;528814]This is great, and I am happy for you.

Yes, my husband did shock me with something years ago. We were at a dinner party playing a couples game with friends of ours and one of the questions in the game was "If you could make love to any one of your wives friends who would it be?" I just looked at my husband, he was the first to go, I could tell he wanted to answer but was scared to in front of me, all our friends started laughing and I didn't want him to feel embarrassed. I had a feeling who he would name and I said " It's ok, you can say it" I think once he felt I wouldn't judge or get angry at him he felt at ease and said her name. All the guys laughed at him like he was in trouble and the wives looked at me, like aren't you pissed? But I knew then and there he was put on the spot and I accepted him and he completely let his guard down and he trusted me even if the room didn't. It was a game after all. Since then we feel more comfortable sharing our sexual struggles with each other, like porn (him) other men(me)

Marriage is about transparency[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SockPuppet

MEM11363 said:


> Sock,
> Congrats. I hope you are also making good use of non verbal communication. The non verbal stuff can be very hot if you learn to read her reactions. The best foreplay or pre foreplay for us is often non verbal.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think, like most, I can pick up on body language subcounciously but to actively do it is a waste of my time, although I will start.

During my manning-up days I made a few postural changes which have stuck, so Im fully aware of thw power body language can have.


----------



## Laurae1967

MEM11363 said:


> Sock,
> A lot of people are critical of the way your wife delivered the message. Hard as it is I try really hard to ignore the delivery style and focus on the fact that my W is trying to improve our marriage. Just like yours was. My guess is that your W has a lot of anxiety discussing this stuff. This was a big leap of faith for her - faith in you. That you wouldn't freak, wouldn't be angry or sullen about it.
> 
> She gets props for telling you. Delivery style may come in time, but even if it doesn't it is infinitely better for you to know what is up.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right on target, MEM. Lots of folks focus on the wrong things but you are right on the money. Delivery style does not negate the importance of the message....but some folks can't get past the ego blow to see it. And it IS a leap of faith to be honest about something. The assumption some folks have that Sock's wife deliberately delivered a "mean" message just misses the point completely. Thinking the worst of our spouse and their motives is a marriage killer.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Laurae1967 said:


> You are right on target, MEM. Lots of folks focus on the wrong things but you are right on the money. Delivery style does not negate the importance of the message....but some folks can't get past the ego blow to see it. And it IS a leap of faith to be honest about something. The assumption some folks have that Sock's wife deliberately delivered a "mean" message just misses the point completely. Thinking the worst of our spouse and their motives is a marriage killer.


Read what Halien said and that to me was the most cogent post. It wasn't necessarily that he was bad, it was that she was BAD..... It is up to women I am convinced to teach us men what they like and not expect it to be a continual shot in the dark. 

I asked a # of questions to sockpuppet that he has not answered and that is fine. But it is his wife's responsibility and all women to help us focus in on what works for them. One day you may hit that exact spot and have no idea what you did to make it magical and unless you are told or guided it is lost. 

Kudos to sockpuppet in how he has responded. I doubt you as a woman would be thrilled if your hubby said you were lousy in bed.


----------



## Enchantment

Havesomethingtosay said:


> It is up to women I am convinced to teach us men what they like and not expect it to be a continual shot in the dark.


I really think it is both spouse's responsibility.

It is up to each spouse to verbalize (in some manner) or show what may be pleasurable and to allow that exploration. Most people don't know what to teach because they haven't yet learned or mastered anything. Therefore, it needs to be done in a mutual way. It is more like a science experiment that has constantly changing variables that you need to explore together rather than a set method or algorithm that is constant. 

It is also up to each spouse to create and foster the kind of mutually respectful and trusting environment where that mutual exploration can take place.


----------



## SockPuppet

Laurae1967 said:


> Delivery style does not negate the importance of the message....but some folks can't get past the ego blow to see it.
> *Studies have shown that if you take a high quality pizza (whatever that is) and put it in the cheap pizza box, people will tell you it tastes different than the high qaulity pizza in the proper box.
> Im not disagreeing with you, but this is a very challenging thing to say. Whenever my wife says something rude/angry/p[issy to me, I do my very best to ignore whatever emotional spin she puts on it, and listen to just the words she is using.*
> 
> The assumption some folks have that Sock's wife deliberately delivered a "mean" message just misses the point completely. Thinking the worst of our spouse and their motives is a marriage killer.
> * She wasnt rude or angry or nasty or anything like it.*


----------



## SockPuppet

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I asked a # of questions to sockpuppet that he has not answered and that is fine. But it is his wife's responsibility and all women to help us focus in on what works for them. One day you may hit that exact spot and have no idea what you did to make it magical and unless you are told or guided it is lost.
> *I completely agree with you. If a woman has specific needs in the bedroom it is her responsbility to point them out. Men arent mind readers.
> 
> I do however believe that since I am unable to read my wifes mind, I must ask many questions. I also believe, possibly erroneously, that women in general suffer from more insecurity issues than men, and it is therefore my responsibility to be aware of my wifes feelings, and to ask her about the things she is uncomfortable with asking.*
> 
> Kudos to sockpuppet in how he has responded. I doubt you as a woman would be thrilled if your hubby said you were lousy in bed.


----------



## Laurae1967

Sockpuppet - My post was not directed at you. I think you have been AMAZING in your response to your wife. 

There was just a lot of criticism from other posters about how your wife said it (calling you at work to prep you for the convo and then spilling the beans when you pushed her to tell you). While that is valid, it doesn't make her the devil incarnate and doesn't invalidate her concerns. And you were strong enough to see that. She's lucky to have you!

She has an obligation to tell you what she wants and in a way that helps you improve/change technique, however, and she should work on her timing so that what she has to say can be heard. 

None of us are perfect at delivery, communication, etc. But I agree with MEM - you are "the man"!


----------



## Scannerguard

I have flashcards held up after sex. . .Technique. . .Eroticism. . .Sensuality.

Then, I objectively evaluate my performance and go back to my coach so I can be better.

Or I just roll over and ask is she's awake and attempt to stick it in. . .


----------



## MEM2020

Laurae,
You clearly get the key point. He is creating an environment with a high level of emotional intimacy. 

At one point in our marriage my wife delivered painful message in a highly aggressive way. My response was equally aggressive. The result was she was less willing to be open with me for a while. It was a bad outcome. We have gotten past it but if I got to do it all over again I would do what sock did. 







Laurae1967 said:


> Sockpuppet - My post was not directed at you. I think you have been AMAZING in your response to your wife.
> 
> There was just a lot of criticism from other posters about how your wife said it (calling you at work to prep you for the convo and then spilling the beans when you pushed her to tell you). While that is valid, it doesn't make her the devil incarnate and doesn't invalidate her concerns. And you were strong enough to see that. She's lucky to have you!
> 
> She has an obligation to tell you what she wants and in a way that helps you improve/change technique, however, and she should work on her timing so that what she has to say can be heard.
> 
> None of us are perfect at delivery, communication, etc. But I agree with MEM - you are "the man"!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien

MEM11363 said:


> Laurae,
> You clearly get the key point. He is creating an environment with a high level of emotional intimacy.
> 
> At one point in our marriage my wife delivered painful message in a highly aggressive way. My response was equally aggressive. The result was she was less willing to be open with me for a while. It was a bad outcome. We have gotten past it but if I got to do it all over again I would do what sock did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Such news, received in small doses, can be a treasure, but imagine if this mode of communication now becomes the norm. Its impractical to suggest that this is only case of opening up, and talking about true feelings, in my opinion. The point is, unless you are willing to let her always have free reign to talk in a way that blames and assigns fault, this could really be sending the wrong signals. What if she decides that being lousy in bed is covered adequately, and decides to move on to parenting skills, career advancement, or cultural intelligence? Is that the place to finally say that we should speak to each other without assigning blame, with mutual respect?

Personally, I also received news in a similar format, and considered it as a sign of a high level of emotional intimacy, because my wife could open up and speak her mind without any fear of backlash. Through the years, this "speaking honestly" began to be the norm, although largely one way, as in this example. What is does accomplish is openness. What it also accomplishes is placing the sexual fulfillment within the marriage completely within her hands. Works great as long as the guy likes what the woman likes. After 22 years, we're trying to learn to communicate in a way that doesn't judge, or elevate one partner's needs above the other. The running theme here suggests that the only alternative to a wife speaking with blatant honesty is a relationship where a guy either yells or communicates poorly. There is another option, though. It involves active listening, mutual respect, and trust. She could've said that she was unhappy with the lovemaking, achieving the same level of openness as long as the husband is willing to accept his own responsibility for it.

Good communication starts with talking about how you feel, then knowing when to stop and listen. A sign of great communication comes when the person can do this and trust that the partner will begin to talk solutions.


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## MEM2020

Halien,
I agree that in general you are right about "subtext". And with this one exception, my W and I strive for the ideal you describe below. However, in this one topic: me pleasing her, I give her a LOT of latitude. About a month ago, lying in bed after she said "I would rather you not do X when we have sex". Externally I responded with "oh, ok thank you for telling me". 

Internally I was thinking: periodically I ask open ended questions "is there anything you want me to do more or less of, or something entirely new"? Why didn't you speak up then?

Instead I just keep trying to get her to FEEL safe enough to continue to be candid with me. 

And fwiw I would not tolerate this pattern in any other area of our marriage. Fortunately she does not act like this in any other part of our marriage. 

One last note. She is and always has been an expert on what I like. She gets a 10 in "being expert with my body". On that subject communication is exceptional. 


TE=Halien;532767]Such news, received in small doses, can be a treasure, but imagine if this mode of communication now becomes the norm. Its impractical to suggest that this is only case of opening up, and talking about true feelings, in my opinion. The point is, unless you are willing to let her always have free reign to talk in a way that blames and assigns fault, this could really be sending the wrong signals. What if she decides that being lousy in bed is covered adequately, and decides to move on to parenting skills, career advancement, or cultural intelligence? Is that the place to finally say that we should speak to each other without assigning blame, with mutual respect?

Personally, I also received news in a similar format, and considered it as a sign of a high level of emotional intimacy, because my wife could open up and speak her mind without any fear of backlash. Through the years, this "speaking honestly" began to be the norm, although largely one way, as in this example. What is does accomplish is openness. What it also accomplishes is placing the sexual fulfillment within the marriage completely within her hands. Works great as long as the guy likes what the woman likes. After 22 years, we're trying to learn to communicate in a way that doesn't judge, or elevate one partner's needs above the other. The running theme here suggests that the only alternative to a wife speaking with blatant honesty is a relationship where a guy either yells or communicates poorly. There is another option, though. It involves active listening, mutual respect, and trust. She could've said that she was unhappy with the lovemaking, achieving the same level of openness as long as the husband is willing to accept his own responsibility for it.

Good communication starts with talking about how you feel, then knowing when to stop and listen. A sign of great communication comes when the person can do this and trust that the partner will begin to talk solutions.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SockPuppet

Laurae1967 said:


> Sockpuppet - My post was not directed at you. I think you have been AMAZING in your response to your wife.


I know it wasnt, I just wanted to clarify for anyone who thought otherwise.

And thanks


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## SockPuppet

Halien, I agree 

This could very well open a flood gate in which one spouse is always belittling the other. 

For my instance, I know when to put my foot down, and do so with tremendous results. I am now able to stand up to my wife in a way that I feel is respectful of her views and opinions.


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## SockPuppet

Or maybe we can just keep this one rolling 

When you master your wife, everything in the bedroom will easily follow.


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## nicky1

if marriage is 50 50 then surely the bedroom should be the same, i think women assume that they dont need to do much of anything , maybe bad media, modern culture, now men are the sex objects bcos they are judged for how they perform, we are not racehorses.


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