# I'm at a loss on my next move....



## mvnfwd

So I found this site a couple years ago and it was instrumental in opening my eyes to why my wife of 4 years wanted "space".

I had given her the space while in the home with her and our two kids. It wasn't good enough so I opted to move out about 5 months ago. She has said she doesn't want to R at this point but hasn't filed for divorce either.

Over the last 2 years I've done everything in my power to show my commitment to her and the family, as a Christian man. The separation was not intended for us to date.

Long story short though I've had my suspicions obviously, I confirmed she is sleeping with another man. All the while she's been extremely easy to get along with and has actually been inviting me over for family dinners etc.

With this specific information what do I do? I really want my family together but know I don't deserve this behavior not to mention how do I trust again?

Sorry if I left info out didn't want to be too long winded. 

Thanks in advance for your advice and support

Mvnfwd


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## Remains

If you are happy to go to family dinners then go.

I would imagine though you are not. The best way you can get over her, and make her realise what she has given up, is to discuss only business i.e kids, and to expose her behaviour to all. Make sure everyone knows she has given up her family for her bit on the side. 

Affairs are only affairs while they are secret. They lose their 'wonderful' glow once everyone knows the reality.


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## bandit.45

Expose her to everyone. Then go see a lawyer. 

I'll bet a large portion of her family and friends already know and have been "minding their own business".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Expose her to everyone. Then go see a lawyer.
> 
> I'll bet a large portion of her family and friends already know and have been "minding their own business".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It depends what lies she has told them.


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## thummper

She's "checked out" my friend. For all intents and purposes, whether you like it or not, it's over. See a good lawyer and prepare yourself for the inevitable split-up. The sooner you deal with this, the sooner you'll be able to move on and find someone who deserves a good man like you. Lots of luck in the future. Let her deal with her own issues.


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## Thound

Don't waste the rest of your life hoping she will come to her senses. Life is too short to waste on a cheater. I would only deal with her on issues about the kids.


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## mvnfwd

Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?

What are the odds she snaps into reality?


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## Acabado

mvnfwd said:


> What are the odds she snaps into reality?


No one.
She's perfectly happy to have this new man in her life, so much she feels generous enough to invit you to family dinners. Who would snap from this out of the blue? How? Personality transplant? Brain tumor?


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## 3putt

mvnfwd said:


> Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?
> 
> What are the odds she snaps into reality?


Assuming this is what you want, then nothing would make her affair fog break faster than a full blown exposure. No guarantees, of course, but you'd be no worse off than you are right now.

She's doing nothing but cake eating right now. She's got the best of both worlds; you *and* him.

What exactly do you want to do? What's your end goal here?


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## wranglerman

mvnfwd said:


> Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?
> 
> What are the odds she snaps into reality?


you got better odds on the lotto my friend!!!

I know you are a Christian but your pastor is so wrong on this one!!

She is a cake eating cheater, you are simply plan B when she realizes that the grass aint always greener the other side, in the mean time she gets to graze both sides with who ever she wants in her bed and you for family and emotional comfort.

Time has come to shed the blanket of comfort and file for yourself, she doesn't want to, why would she, that then closes off one of her safest options.

Better get on it and get ready to go dark, kids, finances full stop as far as discussions go, be cold and distant too, once the papers are served then she knows it's over, she will then do the grovelling and pleading, pay no attention, she is grovelling and pleading because you have just burst her bubble, no other reason, if you don't serve her she will play this game for years to come and you just get limbo.

Hardly fair is it?


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## mvnfwd

It's crazy I know but the part of me that's bounds by the principles wants my family in tact.....but the Man I am says move on and let her be the woman who's proven she has no character, strength, or integrity. (The things I fell in love with about her)

Also exposing her would reveal my method of gaining the information and that I feel would make things worse especially moving forward with divorce and custody dealings.


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## Thound

What do you feel in your heart is Gods will for your life? I'm sure you're aware that the bible states divorce is ok if infidelity is involved. If you feel the Lord is wanting you to hang in there, then by all means keep trying, but don't mistake Gods will with your own.


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## mvnfwd

Wranglerman.....you're so right. I've been in this blind hope limbo for 2 years....I agree I see no end in sight leaving it up to her.


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## 3putt

Thound said:


> What do you feel in your heart is Gods will for your life? I'm sure you're aware that the bible states divorce is ok if infidelity is involved. If you feel the Lord is wanting you to hang in there, then by all means keep trying, *but don't mistake Gods will with your own.*


Or your pastor's will.


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## mvnfwd

Thound....my thoughts to hang in there are like I mentioned principal due to my faith....my will honestly would be to hand her papers tonight and let her live with the horrible choices she's made....sorry to be so torn but it's a nasty place to be especially looking at my 5 yr old daughter and 2 yr old son. I feel like should I put aside my pride and fight for principles?


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## wranglerman

mvnfwd said:


> Wranglerman.....you're so right. I've been in this blind hope limbo for 2 years....I agree I see no end in sight leaving it up to her.


2yrs is a long time friend!!!

If she wanted her family to stay intact and to be a wife and a mother she would be with you, not some POSOM for bed time and you over for dinner, she does not want to break the charade and wants to keep her options open for the right guy to get into her bed.

You're safe as far as she is concerned now,safe in the respect that for two years you have been hanging in there waiting for her, she thinks you're not going anywhere anytime soon.

The question is, are you going to stay in limbo?

If you want your wife back then I can tell you now, it ain't gonna happen, she has friend zoned you, you can't "win" her back, there is no way to nice her back to being your own faithful wife, sorry, but for her it is over.

Limbo is a s4!t place to be, you have some hard choices ahead, are you ready to deal with them?

Edited to add.

How and what sources have you used to gain your information?


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## Chaparral

How would she know how you got the info?

Who is the other man, is he married?


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## Chaparral

Personally, I would move back in and invite her to leave. Sounds like you are paying for the house and another man is playing in your bed. Oh, I would burn the bed too. 

Look up the free book online, NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY


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## just got it 55

mvnfwd said:


> Thound....my thoughts to hang in there are like I mentioned principal due to my faith....my will honestly would be to hand her papers tonight and let her live with the horrible choices she's made....sorry to be so torn but it's a nasty place to be especially looking at my 5 yr old daughter and 2 yr old son. I feel like should I put aside my pride and fight for principles?


Fight for your children pride & principals ...... expose and file

55


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## ThePheonix

thummper said:


> She's "checked out" my friend. For all intents and purposes, whether you like it or not, it's over.


:iagree:

You must have the patients of Job my man. You move out 5 months ago and you lovingly gave her space she wanted, Lord knows, how much time before that. Like I said before, when a woman wants space, they mean a minimum of a million miles. In the meantime, she's shifted you to the platonic mode and "took up" with the guy she really wants to be with. 
Your next move Dawg is to realize you're out. Don't look at an invitation to family dinner as a spike in her romantic interest. 
You may want your family together, and don't believe they deserve that treatment but it doesn't matter what you want. One of the largest groups of men in the world are those who want their family back together and think they didnt deserve what happened. 
Time to take it off life support and put it to rest M.


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## wranglerman

Chaparral said:


> How would she know how you got the info?
> 
> Who is the other man, is he married?


If you're about to suggest exposing the OM to his W/GF as a means to break the fog, forget it, I can see it from here, their marriage is cooked like a casserole, just needs served up in front of the judge with some bread and butter.

If she drops OM now, there will be another in her bed within a month!!!

MVGB has been friend zoned and is hanging by a thread, she doesn't want him, but she doesn't want to let him go either!!!


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## just got it 55

wranglerman said:


> 2yrs is a long time friend!!!
> 
> If she wanted her family to stay intact and to be a wife and a mother she would be with you, not some POSOM for bed time and you over for dinner, she does not want to break the charade and wants to keep her options open for the right guy to get into her bed.
> 
> You're safe as far as she is concerned now,safe in the respect that for two years you have been hanging in there waiting for her, she thinks you're not going anywhere anytime soon.
> 
> The question is, are you going to stay in limbo?
> 
> If you want your wife back then I can tell you now, it ain't gonna happen, she has friend zoned you, you can't "win" her back, there is no way to nice her back to being your own faithful wife, sorry, but for her it is over.
> 
> Limbo is a s4!t place to be, *you have some hard choices ahead, are you ready to deal with them?*
> Edited to add.
> 
> How and what sources have you used to gain your information?


He only has one choice

Expose & File

55


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## RClawson

OP I respect and understand your faith and your personal comittement to your marriage. It is honorable and admirable to me at least. 

After considering the information you have shared and your religious conditioning I would encourage you to think about a future with her. Do you believe that after all this time you will be able to trust her again? Do you trust yourself with the ability to compartmentalize this period of time so it will not eat you up a you share the rest of your lives together. I am all for forgiveness but the other party involved has to show contrition and humility and seek your forgiveness. My impression is none of that has happened. 

I think there is a better life out there with someone who will share the same vision with you. That would mean a relationship where God is the cornerstone of your home. You need to make a decision soon so your children can feel that unity and safety as they grow up and so they can see you as a strong example. You are walking a fine line presently and I do not believe it favors you.


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## mvnfwd

You guys/(gals?) are good...I knew I'd get solid real world advice on it. It's almost like I've made excuses for her behavior and let this hope keep my head in the sand....When I really consider the last 2 years of this torture without her slightly turning her head back to me....it's pretty obvious she's not coming back.


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## Thound

mvnfwd said:


> Thound....my thoughts to hang in there are like I mentioned principal due to my faith....my will honestly would be to hand her papers tonight and let her live with the horrible choices she's made....sorry to be so torn but it's a nasty place to be especially looking at my 5 yr old daughter and 2 yr old son. I feel like should I put aside my pride and fight for principles?


I couldn't even begin to imagine what it would be like to be walking in your shoes. You have to do what's best for you and your kids. But do not be a door mat. You don't want to set that example for your kids. Best wishes.


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## manfromlamancha

First of all let me say that this is an awful situation to be in. She lied and duped you into moving out and moved the POSOM into your bed and she carried this on for two years! Very heinous and disrespectful to say nothing of the lying, cheating and adulterous/amoral behaviour. Your wife appears to be a real villain who has no regard for you whatsoever.

Secondly, your son is 2 yo - get a DNA test done immediately - in fact you do not really know your wife so test both your children.

Thirdly, your pastor is full of [email protected] and would be well advised to refrain from giving advice of this nature - he is destroying lives by his advice and appears to have no real experience in these matters.

Now all this is without the benefit of knowing what the situation is (you have been very light on the background and details).

What is the background and situation that led to you coming here? How did you discover the info? You are going to have to confront and expose and then deliver a payload of consequences - for your own good as well as the good of your children (if they are in fact, yours). Also for the good of the wife of the POSOM if he has a wife.

You will need to get your act together quickly, formulate a plan based on the advice you get here and your situation and then act decisively and unwaveringly. Once you have done this you will be in a position to decide what next.


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## MattMatt

mvnfwd said:


> Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?
> 
> What are the odds she snaps into reality?


How long does your pastor think you should give her?:scratchhead:


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## tom67

Please expose and get the youngest DNA tested.


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## adriana

mvnfwd said:


> Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?
> 
> What are the odds she snaps into reality?



So, basically, your pastor is telling you to enjoy your role of a cuckold husband? What a source of divine wisdom he is!


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## mvnfwd

I'll try to give more background when kids are down. ...again thank you


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## ConanHub

mvnfwd said:


> Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?
> 
> What are the odds she snaps into reality?


I am ordained and I can say with authority..... YOUR PASTOR IS AN IDIOT!!!!!!!

God hates infidelity and you can divorce her for it.

I can't believe there is this lack of testosterone in the church.

Expose her and make your wife as uncomfortable as possible getting banged by her trashy OM!

Why wouldn't she be happy to have you to dinner? She is a cake eating wh0re.


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## Catherine602

MVN I admire your faith and patience. 

Your WW is unrepentant, and your self-sacrifice is not working nor it is appreciated. Besides, what a terrible moral example she sets for your children. 

That parable about "casting your pearl among the swine", what does it mean?

You know yourself and your life better than your pastor, right. The woman you married is gone, she is not coming back. The woman you see now is what is left of her. 

Take the strength being offered and act in favor of yourself, your kids and your WW. You are getting in the way of her contrition because you make it easy for her to continue in her waywardness.


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## Thound

adriana said:


> so, basically, your pastor is telling you to enjoy your role of a cuckold husband? What a source of divine wisdom he is!


ka-pow!!!!


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## bandit.45

So...what is your next move? You've had two years of prevaricating. Hope you don't wait another two years while you think about it. At some point you have to place pragmatism over religious belief. 

Your pastor is an ignoramus. Stop attending his church. God knows what other false doctrines he's spewing. 

I get so sick of it when I see good people get led around by the nose by religious morons. 



_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

You've already given 2 years of patience and hope to this. All the while, she is moving on without you.

There's nothing virtuous in this sort of self-sacrifice. It's not a noble sacrifice. It's a sacrifice for her selfishness. Why should you continue to do that?

You should file and do it with a clear conscience, in my opinion.


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## 6301

I'm not a very religious man but I do believe in God, but I don't believe that God put you on this earth to be made a fool out of.

He gave you a brain, heart, and the ability to think and reason. With all of that you see what is going on in your life, you have to ask yourself if you deserve better.

It's real easy to sit you down and say "mvnfwd" you must suck it up, be the good husband and forgive her when she kicks you in the gut and disrespects you.

No one is going to fault you if you end this marriage. It's not a marriage when one stays true to the vows they took and the other disregards them like a used Kleenex. 

If your pastor is so hellbent on you staying with her then tell him that he is more than welcome to have her for his very own.


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## Affaircare

mvnfwd, 

I'm writing to you today as a Christian marriage coach. I've spent years--decades--specifically helping people reconcile after an affair or recover if reconciliation is not going to happen, and I specifically use a Christian method. And I'm here to tell you that the teaching in the bible is clear: if there is sexual immorality involved then you are well within your rights to choose to morally walk away, and YOU did not end the marriage by walking away, but rather her sexual immorality was the covenant breaker. 

Now I know that 99.99% of pastors out there will talk to couples about "forgiveness" and "loving their spouse," and those things are not necessarily false. But what's happening I think, is that they are applying the wrong thing at the wrong time. So let's go over those two ideas: "forgiving" and "loving." 

*Forgiving* your spouse does not mean that your spouse necessarily repents, nor that you condone what they are doing and let them escape the consequence of what they've done. God forgave King David for committing adultery with Uriah's wife, but that didn't meant that David didn't suffer the cost of his adultery: namely she lost the baby, and all the rest of his sons and his family were ungodly. David repented. God forgave. But the natural cost of adultery was the strife and pain brought into David's family. 

It's the same for us. Your wife may or may not be repentant of her adultery, but that doesn't mean you "forgive" her by letting her "off the hook." Forgiving her just means that you put give up all claim on account of the debt or obligation she owes you. You let go and move on. For some reason, some Christians have this notion in their heads that forgiveness means "letting them get away with what they've done" and in real life that is just not the case! We all 100% owe the debt for the sin we've done, but when God forgives us, He doesn't immediately make us into sinless angels--He releases the debt we owe Him. 

So start thinking in a biblical way about forgiveness. She is a human being, just like you or I. She may or may not be repentant, but either way, she made promises to you when you two married, and because of the damage she has done to you and to the family, she owes ENORMOUS debts right now. Forgiving her would be releasing her from that debt while not releasing her from the natural consequences of her choices. 

And that leads directly into the next topic: Loving. 

*Loving* does not mean a fluttery feeling when you see or think of someone. Loving is not always being nice no matter what they do. Loving is not allowing people to walk all over you and behave badly. These are all common misconceptions that Christians think of when they say "You should be loving your to spouse." 

Loving is a choice and an action: you make the decision to behave in a way that is loving toward someone, even though they may not deserve it. You make a choice to treat them in a way that would be in their best interest--you help them grow and become a better human being, and usually that is by you supporting and encouraging them when they try a new biblical concept and it's awkward or hard. In this instance, it is most definitely NOT in your wife's best interest to continue her affair and destroy not only her family, but the OM's family and all the extended family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.). 

I will give you an example that is often easier for someone to see. Is it more loving to allow a loved one who's addicted to cocaine to just continue in their addiction and "just let them get away with it" and cover their tracks, even when they act badly, steal from you to support their habit, and lie about the legality of what they are doing? Or is it more loving to let your loved suffer some natural consequences for their choices? Lock up your money so they can not longer steal from you, force them to move out when they lie and act badly, and maybe have an intervention and take them to a facility? Which is more loving? 

Guess what? The addict is not going to be happy with you if you try to intervene and help them get off their habit. At first, especially, they'll probably be *extremely *mad and hate your guts!! But if you TRULY loved that person, you wouldn't let them wallow in the harm that will come to them due to the drug addiction. You would enforce the natural consequences of their choices to lie and steal, and let them feel the pinch of the hurt of what they choose. That's what love is--teaching and allowing the people we love to learn that THEY ARE PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHOICES THEY MAKE. 

Adultery is exactly that same concept! EXACTLY. If you truly love your wife, you would not allow her to wallow in the devastation she is going to bring to herself by continuing this affair. You would fight it and do everything you can to prevent it and let her be mad and hate you for a little while, because it will save her life!! So in a way I agree with your pastor--love your wife. Love her enough to stop paying for the cell phone on which she is continuing her adultery. She is a grown woman, and you are more than happy to provide a cell phone for the woman who loves and respects you, but if that is not what she chooses (and she is free to do so), then you do not have an obligation to contribute to adultery. Likewise for paying her adultery bills, the internet bills, providing her a car...anything related to the affair that you provide. The natural cost of not choosing to honor her vow to YOU, is that she also does not get the benefits of YOU (such as the things you provide for her). 

Finally, I urge you to read my article about "The Difference Between Exposure and Revenge." Now folks here can tell you, I'm not pointing you there to promote myself--I actually hang here and answer people such as yourself and have for a couple .. okay several!... years. But that article would be really good for you to start to understand why we are suggesting exposure, and that exposure is not "dragging her name through the mud." Her ADULTERY did that! Not you telling the truth! 

I pray this helps, and if you have further questions I would encourage you to email my Dear Hubby at [email protected].


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## Gabriel

mvnfwd said:


> Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?
> 
> What are the odds she snaps into reality?


You know what? This crap about your pastor is moot. Has his wife slept with other men? If not, he doesn't know a damn thing about what you are going through.

So a cheater can just cheat and keep cheating with no penance, and get to keep her husband as a cuckhold? Give me a freaking break. Your pastor needs to enter the real world.


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## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> So...what is your next move? You've had two years of prevaricating. Hope you don't wait another two years while you think about it. At some point you have to place pragmatism over religious belief.
> 
> Your pastor is an ignoramus. Stop attending his church. God knows what other false doctrines he's spewing.
> 
> I get so sick of it when I see good people get led around by the nose by religious morons.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe the pastor is banging her like an old church door, too?


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## tom67

MattMatt said:


> Maybe the pastor is banging her like an old church door, too?


I'ts happened before.


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## mvnfwd

You all are amazing I truly appreciate the time and thought you've given to my very personal situation....I will respond further shortly.


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## Decorum

mvnfwd said:


> Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?
> 
> What are the odds she snaps into reality?


I have known many really good men who were pastors or counselors over the years that would have given the same advise based on Paul’s and Peter’s exhortations.

Exhortations given to Christian couples that were listening, but not in the context of infidelity.

Infidelity is unlike any other issue in a marriage, the frame of reference needs to be expanded to the whole counsel of truth because all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction.

There is a very large context in the Bible for infidelity that is usually ignored in cases like this, sometimes because well-meaning churchmen, have limited experience with the issue of infidelity, and do not know how to apply the larger context.

If they would only spend some time on TAM they would realize there are acceptable options/steps that a BS may take in good faith.

I believe you can follow the gist of the advice here with a clear conscience, being sensitive to any special steps you need to take and know without a doubt that God is supporting you as you go through this hell.

I wish you well.
Take care!


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## 86857

mvnfwd said:


> You all are amazing I truly appreciate the time and thought you've given to my very personal situation....I will respond further shortly.


*You* are amazing mvnfwd and never forget that. 

You put up with all that for 2 long years at the expense of your well-being, dignity and pride for the sake of your two little ones and your Christian faith. It doesn't get more selfless than that. 

But, you gave her every chance and you can do no more. IMO, she checked out long ago. 

You must D for your wellbeing and health. Stress weakens us physically as well as psychologically. Your children need their Dad to be strong. And they are lucky to have such a fine Dad. 

So mnvfwd, go well and think fwd!


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## honcho

She wont file for divorce as she is perfectly happy in her world keeping you hanging around. You have tolerated her every action without consequence. Don’t take it the wrong way but you seem more in the fog than she. You have endured this so long, its now become the normal in your life.

Your family isn’t intact, it hasn’t been for a long time. A farce of a marriage isn’t a marriage and living a lie or the occasional family dinner isn’t a marriage. She has made her intentions clear, she wants to live a different life than you. No matter your beliefs at some point she will file for divorce eventually and nothing you can do will stop it from happening. 

Do you really want to raise your children in this sort of environment? You have endured and punished yourself enough in my opinion. From what I read, you have spent almost half your married life in this situation, you do deserve better.


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## Mr Blunt

> Forgiving her would be releasing her from that debt while not releasing her from the natural consequences of her choices


. 

*BINGO!!!
That to me is Christian wisdom!*



Mvnfrd
You have been an enabler for two years! 

Your wife is not going to *“snap out of it”* without consequences and even then she may not. *You need to follow your Christian principles as the spiritual leader of your family and hold her accountable and take whatever action that you can*. 

In the OT the father Eli did not take appropriate action against his son that were mistreating the sacrifices of the temple and having sex with the sanctuary serving women. God finally stepped in and killed both sons. (Ref 1st Samuel Chapter 2)


In the NT the married couple of Ananias and Sapphira did not take any action to stop themselves from sinning and God killed them also (Ref: Acts Chapter 5)



I am not saying that God is going to kill you wife I am pointing out that the Bible does not just say what your pastor said in that you should just *“…stay the course and love your wife”. *


*What Bible does your pastor read? 
Does that Bible have 1st Samuel and Acts in it?*


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## mvnfwd

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks a Christian man can be a strong man that holds himself and others accountable for their actions. There must be consequences. So far she's living the dream and I'm allowing it. I think I'm bound by what's right to as many of you say expose the affair. Is there a best time to open it up or is asap best?


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## tom67

mvnfwd said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks a Christian man can be a strong man that holds himself and others accountable for their actions. There must be consequences. So far she's living the dream and I'm allowing it. I think I'm bound by what's right to as many of you say expose the affair. Is there a best time to open it up or is asap best?


Best time is asap.
There never is "good" time for something like this except for you.


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## Affaircare

A few quick questions before we can advise you wisely on "when to expose":

Do you have evidence gathered? Are you prepared?

Before you expose the affair, it is wise to have sufficient evidence gathered so that you can solidly prove it's not just you being jealous or controlling. So for example, if you have copies of emails she sent to the OM, photos of them kissing, receipts from a hotel she paid for that says "Mr. and Mrs.", a recording of her saying she loves him and disparaging you...this is going to be the type of compelling evidence that will generally convince others. 

Now bear in mind, we are not asking you TO CONVINCE THEM. Some (like perhaps her family) will not want to believe the worst of their girl, and if all you had to present was "He said...She said" I guarantee you she would be able to explain it away by blaming you somehow! (You are jealous and made this all up in your head and pooooooor her she has to put up with being with you!) But if you tell people the truth and follow it up with some compelling but not horrid evidence, then if nothing else they may not want to believe it but they'll know it's not just you making it up. 

So #1, gather your evidence together and get it in order. 

Then #2 is to get prepared for the exposure. It's usually a wise idea to have a few ducks in a row before you expose, because I guarantee you, she is going to be mad. Just keep envisioning a person addicted to cocaine. They would get mad too because you are trying to cut off their habit! They will fight tooth and nail, kick and scream, say the meanest, most hateful things...to get back to their habit. But you keep firmly in your mind that you are trying to do the best thing for her but TELLING THE TRUTH to those who would be affected. 

You will want to tell people whose lives will be harmed by a divorce: parents, siblings, aunts-uncles-cousins...because they will be losing half their time with the kids if this affair continues. You will want to tell pro-marriage friends--anyone she looks up to and considers a mentor who will tell her to knock it off and go back to her family. You will probably want to tell those you consider spiritual leaders who will help you do the right thing and hold her accountable (but remember it's not your job to "make her pay"--it IS your job to allow her to feel the natural discomfort of the consequences of her choices). You MAY want to tell your boss if you think it is affecting your work performance and you have that kind of relationship with your boss. You MAY want to tell her boss if the affair is work related--not for gossip, but rather because if company time and assets are being used for unwanted sexual contact (YOU don't want it so it is unwanted) between a boss and subordinate or employee and client, their company is in danger of a sexual harassment lawsuit!

Also you'll probably want to have your own bank account and have your checks being deposited to your bank account before you expose. You'll want to have at least a copy of evidence that's secured in a vault at work, in a lockbox in the bank or something (because I guarantee you she will try to delete it). And finally you'll probably want to arrange to have the kids at a sitter or at least "looked after" the evening of the day you expose, so that you can deal with her and whatever she may do, rather than have your children hear your wife scream obscenities at you. 

Otherwise, after you've gathered evidence, secured a copy, and gotten prepared, I say go ASAP. It's like pulling off a bandaid. Yank it and it's less painful.


----------



## honcho

There is no good time unfortunately. Best advice is to stick with the facts. The less opinion the less of the he said she said can happen. Its not your job to convince them you are right or wrong. You have an uphill battle given how long the two of you have been separated and the situation. Keep yourself composed, don’t breakdown and become emotional

She has had a head start most likely telling family and friends “her” version of what is going on. Some wont believe you on day one, some will already know. How long as she been seeing someone else? Did it start before or after the separation started? 

Do not expect this as a magic cure to break a fog or snap her out of it. It may or may not have any effect on her. You are doing this so people will understand your reasons that the situation as it stands you can no longer live with or tolerate. She could very well file the day you expose, my stbx did just that. I exposed on a Sunday night, Monday afternoon she had papers filed and cleaned out every bank account she could. My stbx family have never said a word to me one way or another. 

It drove mine deeper into her fog, I was trying to get the world against her or some such nonsense. She just quit talking to all our friends and started spinning the stories that get more elaborate as time goes on. People get sick of stories and the facts generally stand out over time.


----------



## Remains

********** said:


> Stress weakens us physically as well as psychologically.


This is so true. I have suffered in all ways the last couple of years, and I am not as strong as I used to be (it's a bit like once the barrier has broken/cracked, you can only patch it up. It won't have the same strength it had before)... though I am a lot stronger than I thought I was! I have put up with so much and never ended up in the mental ward! I survived no matter how many people tried to ensure my demise! 

Remove your stress. And move back into your house. Get her out. Make it difficult for her to stay.


----------



## Chaparral

adriana said:


> So, basically, your pastor is telling you to enjoy your role of a cuckold husband? What a source of divine wisdom he is!


The reason pastors try to keep families together is the children. Adultery is a qualified reason for divorce for Christians. The reason pastors try to get the two parents back together is the harm divorces have done to children in their experience as counselors. Step children are at high risk from step parents. Particularly daughters. Sex abuse, verbal abuse, and physical abuse by step parents is not rare its common.

In adultery, they already know the step parent is a low life piece of sh!t or they would not be stealing a married person and breaking up a family. By definition, an adulterer is a low or no moral person that should not be around kids.


----------



## Chaparral

If you go the divorce route, you need to investigate your wife and her boyfriend and do your best to get as much custody as possible. 

Is the other man married?


----------



## Chaparral

wranglerman said:


> If you're about to suggest exposing the OM to his W/GF as a means to break the fog, forget it, I can see it from here, their marriage is cooked like a casserole, just needs served up in front of the judge with some bread and butter.
> 
> If she drops OM now, there will be another in her bed within a month!!!
> 
> MVGB has been friend zoned and is hanging by a thread, she doesn't want him, but she doesn't want to let him go either!!!


I think when children are involved the affair should be destroyed no matter what the eventual outcome is to be.


----------



## Thound

Wow I hope Affaircare will be around when I need him. Awesome posts Affaircare. Thank God for men like you.


----------



## wranglerman

Chaparral said:


> I think when children are involved the affair should be destroyed no matter what the eventual outcome is to be.


With that I do entirely agree with, but not before he has his duckies in the row and sailing on the pond!!!

There can be enormous stress and pain from the exposure that may make MVNFWD think twice about filing after exposure, she might drop the hot rock/c0ck and hold him closer than ever before and tell him all the sweet little lies in order to lull him into the false R that would follow, then coast is clear all is settled in a year or two and "BANG" so to speak she goes back into that world.

Seen it here a few times now!!!

Best get the ducks in the row, file and then expose IMHO.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Mvnfwd, you were going to give us more detail via an update - it would help us understand the picture better.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to talk to an attorney about your moving out. According to some posters this can affect custody if this goes to divorce.

Warning, if your wife is cheating, she's lying. Believe nothing, zero, nada, that comes out of her mouth without verifying.


----------



## ConanHub

Thound said:


> Wow I hope Affaircare will be around when I need him. Awesome posts Affaircare. Thank God for men like you.


Isn't Affaircare a girl?


----------



## Jasel

Why would she file for divorce??? She has a boy toy (or more) on one hand, and her Plan B husband who is doing "everything in my power to show my commitment to her and the family, as a Christian man." She has no real incentive to file for divorce unless she plans on getting serious with someone else or just gets sick of being married to you.

If you've been separated for 2 years, she doesn't want to reconcile, she's already ****ing someone else, you're occasionally invited to family dinners, etc then you're basically already divorced anyway. 

What you've been doing obviously isn't working. And ignore what that pastor told you. You need to see a lawyer and start figuring out your options. 

If you do wind up divorcing do it now while your kids are young and so they won't remember and don't have to grow up watching the train wreck that is your marriage. It takes 2 people to make a marriage work and from what you say it's clear you're the only one invested in it.

What you've been doing (which is as close to outright enabling her behavior as you can get) has not been working, it's time to try something else.


----------



## MattMatt

You are doing your wife a grave disservice. How? You have -accidentally- allowed her to live a wicked and cruel lifestyle. You must stop this, now.

No more enabling behaviour.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Gather your evidence: phone records and copies text messages from the cell carrier, e-mails between her and him, VAR recorder under the front seat of her car, or the best thing....go hire Magnum. 

A P.I. can be well worth the money and provide you with solid evidence (pics, recordings, dates, times,ect.)


----------



## the guy

ConanHub said:


> Isn't Affaircare a girl?


Ya she is
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 6301

mvnfwd said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks a Christian man can be a strong man that holds himself and others accountable for their actions. There must be consequences. So far she's living the dream and I'm allowing it. I think I'm bound by what's right to as many of you say expose the affair. Is there a best time to open it up or is asap best?


 If you have the information you need and the proof, then expose it now. 

Too many times people sit on the information and say "tomorrow", then tomorrow comes and then it's the next day and all that does is makes it harder. Sooner or later your going to have to do it. Once you do, then it's out there and the load is off your shoulders and put back on the person who caused it. Where it belongs. Do it now.


----------



## mvnfwd

Some info I had left out.

March 2012 is when she started becoming distant. With my suspicions rising I checked phone bill. She was texting talking seeing an ex boyfriend. He himself was living with girlfriend and has sense gotten married. She said he "knew" her better than anyone. 

From the start it was a space thing. The more I tried to fix myself and the marriage the more she said I was pushing her away. I stopped accusing infidelity about a year ago to assume the best. We slept together one time early 2013. I slept in my daughters room trying to let her figure it out while being faithful to her and being the best husband/Dad I could be.

November 2013 is when I saw texts from a Co worker that were inappropriate. I moved out that day.

During the separation I've taken the kids most of the time I'm off work. As I said we get along great and deal with kids bills etc well. 

Honestly she has changed very much for the better in the last 2 months. Kinda thought she was coming around. I have not so much as hugged my wife in months.

Then the bomb drops a couple days ago that she screwing another man.

I have not let on to any knowledge, just playing it cool figuring out what thebest move is now.


----------



## adriana

Thound said:


> Wow I hope Affaircare will be around when I need him. Awesome posts Affaircare. Thank God for men like you.



I don't think she has ever mentioned anything about undergoing gender reassignment surgery??? But, if this is the case HE is probably busy now reading "No More Nice Guy" and "The Married Man Sex Life Primer".


----------



## ThePheonix

mvnfwd said:


> Then the bomb drops a couple days ago that she screwing another man.
> 
> I have not let on to any knowledge, just playing it cool figuring out what the best move is now.


When are going to quit rolling over and playing dead my man? Your acting like a stray cat hanging around hoping for a few scraps. You ain't trying to figure the next move. You're hoping for a miracle that somehow she'll straighten up and come to appreciate you for what you are and give up the bad boys she thinks are so sexy. 
The problem is your weak and ironically not afraid to show it. Women at best feel sorry for a weak man. They don't appreciate them and find them a desirable partner. Maybe you should ask yourself why she felt the need to turn to another guy. (ya I know the affair(s) are her fault, blah, blah, blah. But you may want to ask, "why is she ally catting around when I'm such a great guy".


----------



## mvnfwd

Phoenix I get what you're saying but it's a hard fence to walk between being as you say "weak" and being committed to my marriage and family holding true to my faith.


----------



## Machiavelli

bandit.45 said:


> Gather your evidence: phone records and copies text messages from the cell carrier, e-mails between her and him, VAR recorder under the front seat of her car, or the best thing....go hire Magnum.












The superior male always carries a 1911.


----------



## mvnfwd

.....and quite honestly without the kids in the equation it would be over a long time ago.


----------



## bandit.45

mvnfwd said:


> Phoenix I get what you're saying but it's a hard fence to walk between being as you say "weak" and being committed to my marriage and family holding true to my faith.


Faith schmaith....

Even JC would say you were being a milqeutoast. Gather the evidence, find that jar she's keeping your nads in and get moving. 

Either stand up for your marriage or don't.


----------



## bandit.45

mvnfwd said:


> .....and quite honestly without the kids in the equation it would be over a long time ago.


Kids are stronger and more resilient than you think. They would much rather have a father who stands for something than a passive guy who goes through life thinking and vascillating about what move he's going to make next. 

Faith requires belief + action. Have faith that calling her out on her adultery and exposing the truth is the right and Godly thing to do, then ACT on it. Gather evidence and when you have a clear case against her and him.... expose her to friends and family.


----------



## Machiavelli

Christianity, and especially the US evangelical version, has strayed far from the teachings of the Bible with regards to marriage and sex. It's been a long process; ongoing since about 200 years after Christ. So, while it's true that your pastor is an idiot, he's no more so than most. Seminaries devote whole courses to explaining why the Bible means the opposite of what it says, so that it is more palatable to the majority of its members (women). This is one reason why men opt out of church.

Now, in your first post a couple years back, you said your wife was not a believer. Was that always the case?

Moving out was a big mistake for a myriad of reasons, but suffice to say that it makes reconciliation pretty much impossible and makes it very easy for the WW to get all the action she wants. This lowers your rank before your WW and that lessens any attraction she still my have that could be leveraged for reconciliation.

Since you are still somewhat hanging on the idea that Christianity requires a repair of the marriage, remember that the Biblical punishment for adultery was death (requiring witnesses). When the Romans took over Judea, they reserved the death penalty to themselves, at least legally, so there were no executions for adultery. This is why Jesus permitted divorce in the case of sexual sin (_porneias_), including adultery. Adultery is a fundamental rupture of the marriage contract. Also, Hebrew culture (despite what the typical Christian pastor will try to sell you) was polygynous; that's why men in the Bible have multiple wives, so there was a lot less at stake for a man if one of his wives went bad. Also, until about 1860, the children were the property of the father. There was no child support, because the woman didn't have the kids, and if a woman took the children away without the father's consent, that was kidnapping. See, the context is quite a bit different when you consider the Biblical facts.

Do you still want to reconcile or are you ready to divorce?


----------



## mvnfwd

True she is not a believer and if I had the choice yes I would prefer reconciliation. One with full communication and commitment...I'm sure you'll all agree that it's extremely unlikely.


----------



## lordmayhem

Adultery is cause for divorce according to the Bible, and even one of the 10 Commandments believe it or not. Add the fact that she is *completely unremorseful/unrepentant*. You're not the first to come here to justify his WW's cheating by using your faith, many have come here to rationalize being a doormat by claiming their faith demands it.


----------



## Chaparral

How did you find out she was sleeping with someone? You don't seem to want to tell us that.


----------



## Chaparral

mvnfwd said:


> True she is not a believer and if I had the choice yes I would prefer reconciliation. One with full communication and commitment...I'm sure you'll all agree that it's extremely unlikely.


According to my Bible you can also divorce her for not being a Christian.. A lot of terms come to mind but not that one.

You seem to have the idea a lot of Christian men have. That in order to be a good Christian you have to go through life accepting everyone else's crap.

After "judge not lest ye be judged" the most often misunderstood quote in the Bible is "turn the other cheek."

Jesus didn't turn the other cheek. For example he got very angry at the Temple and bodily threw the money changers among others out of the temple.

The disciples were also armed. When Judas betrayed Jesus, Peter drew his sword and cut off one of the 'Guards ears. The only reason Jesus stopped him was that it was time for his mission on earth to end.

What you are doing is using your religion to hide behind. Time to stand up and be a man.


----------



## Machiavelli

mvnfwd said:


> True she is not a believer and if I had the choice yes I would prefer reconciliation. One with full communication and commitment...I'm sure you'll all agree that it's extremely unlikely.


Your odds extremely slim to none on reconciliation. If you want to try for that, you need to move back in ASAP. Sit tight for a couple of weeks as you gather more intel, then expose.

Who gets more opposite sex attention, you or her?


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



Machiavelli said:


> Your odds extremely slim to none on reconciliation. If you want to try for that, you need to move back in ASAP. Sit tight for a couple of weeks as you gather more intel, then expose.
> 
> Who gets more opposite sex attention, you or her?


We're probably both getting similar amount of attention from opposite sex.


----------



## mvnfwd

Don't get me wrong I haven't been sitting around holding my breath...what I've realized is that any new "fling" started on my part now isn't truly what I want.


----------



## Chaparral

It will probably last long enough to ruin her marriage and then he will go back to his wife and kids.


----------



## Machiavelli

mvnfwd said:


> Don't get me wrong I haven't been sitting around holding my breath...what I've realized is that any new "fling" started on my part now isn't truly what I want.


Nobody said anything about a fling. I just want to know if you're a fatass.

When you start down the usually Quixotic path of reconciliation from wifely adultery, it helps if you're the hottest guy around and women are constantly coming on to you. This whole thing is because your wife, for whatever reason, has lost her sexual attraction to you. Since it has happened so quickly in your marriage, this would indicate a promiscuous nature and it casts the paternity of your kids into question.

You 0.01% shot at reconciliation pretty much depends on you moving back in and demonstrating higher sexual value than the OM, pretty much constantly.


----------



## manfromlamancha

mvnfwd said:


> Some info I had left out.
> 
> March 2012 is when she started becoming distant. With my suspicions rising I checked phone bill. She was texting talking seeing an ex boyfriend. He himself was living with girlfriend and has sense gotten married. She said he "knew" her better than anyone.
> 
> From the start it was a space thing. The more I tried to fix myself and the marriage the more she said I was pushing her away. I stopped accusing infidelity about a year ago to assume the best. We slept together one time early 2013. I slept in my daughters room trying to let her figure it out while being faithful to her and being the best husband/Dad I could be.
> 
> November 2013 is when I saw texts from a Co worker that were inappropriate. I moved out that day.
> 
> During the separation I've taken the kids most of the time I'm off work. As I said we get along great and deal with kids bills etc well.
> 
> Honestly she has changed very much for the better in the last 2 months. Kinda thought she was coming around. I have not so much as hugged my wife in months.
> 
> Then the bomb drops a couple days ago that she screwing another man.
> 
> I have not let on to any knowledge, just playing it cool figuring out what thebest move is now.


I see we are going to have to extract this bit by bit - how did you find out ? What did you find ? etc etc


----------



## mvnfwd

I'm not a fat ass. Im in good shape attractive tall and have a career most find desirable. Found extremely inappropriate texts on her phone....


----------



## TimesLikeThese

I agree that you should file and be done with her. Be strong for your kids. 

Also, if you're worried about finding the information on her phone, know that as your wife (using that term loosely) she does not have a right to secrecy. Privacy sure, but those aren't the same things. Any communications she has should be viewable by you.


----------



## harrybrown

Have you told her AP's wife about the affair?

She deserves to know.


----------



## wranglerman

mvnfwd said:


> I'm not a fat ass. Im in good shape attractive tall and have a career most find desirable.


You sound a lot like me 

Must be a horse wrangler too as I get hit on all the time so women find my occupation a desirable commodity too!!!

How you holding up with the thought of going it alone after D?


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



wranglerman said:


> You sound a lot like me
> 
> Must be a horse wrangler too as I get hit on all the time so women find my occupation a desirable commodity too!!!
> 
> How you holding up with the thought of going it alone after D?


Lol. Fireman here....though horse wrangling sounds cool.

Honestly I feel ok about it. I've gone it alone for 2 years. The idea of sacking up and taking control of my life is sounding better as we speak. I have done all I can do.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> True she is not a believer and if I had the choice yes I would prefer reconciliation. One with full communication and commitment...I'm sure you'll all agree that it's extremely unlikely.



You have mentioned your dedication to your Christian faith a few times. You have not made her accountable (Eli?) but have been an enabler for years. In addition you want to reconcile with a non-believer which is contrary to your scriptures reprinted below

2 Corinthians 6:14
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:

You are very weak and are compromising and that reduces your self respect. You not only are not following your own spiritual principles but you are making the situation worse. You have allowed her actions for two years and not taken actions to help her, you, your children, or your self respect.

*If you keep being weak you will become a door mat and you will have no respect for yourself. If that happens what good will you be to your children or anyone else?*


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



harrybrown said:


> Have you told her AP's wife about the affair?
> 
> She deserves to know.


I don't know who the POSOM is so no way of knowing his current circumstances but I bet he's married too. Seems to be the way of our culture/generation.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



Mr Blunt said:


> You have mentioned your dedication to your Christian faith a few times. You have not made her accountable (Eli?) but have been an enabler for years. In addition you want to reconcile with a non-believer which is contrary to your scriptures reprinted below
> 
> 2 Corinthians 6:14
> 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:
> 
> You are very weak and are compromising and that reduces your self respect. You not only are not following your own spiritual principles but you are making the situation worse. You have allowed her actions for two years and not taken actions to help her, you, your children, or your self respect.
> 
> *If you keep being weak you will become a door mat and you will have no respect for yourself. If that happens what good will you be to your children or anyone else?*


I agree. It was a mistake to marry a non believer.....I guess what I did fail to mention is that a reconciliation would have to be one that was centered around Christian values etc. She may or may not even be willing.

Yes this is definitely at the root of this whole situation.


----------



## MattMatt

Have you been injured in the line of duty? Just wondering why she should do what she is doing.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



MattMatt said:


> Have you been injured in the line of duty? Just wondering why she should do what she is doing.


No injury.


----------



## bandit.45

Gather intel and expose her. It works best when you have her served the D papers at work and her parents and friends all get the exposure email on the same day. It's called going nuclear. It works really well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

mvnfwd said:


> I agree. It was a mistake to marry a non believer


:rofl:

You can't be serious?!

Of the top worst people I've known in my 50+ years, _all but ONE_ have been 'avowed Christians'; as my husband (a devout Lutheran) puts it, all Christianity means is that you get to do whatever you want and then ask for forgiveness.


----------



## TimesLikeThese

The problem is Christians are people. And people kinda suck.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> :rofl:
> 
> You can't be serious?!
> 
> Of the top worst people I've known in my 50+ years, _all but ONE_ have been 'avowed Christians'; as my husband (a devout Lutheran) puts it, all Christianity means is that you get to do whatever you want and then ask for forgiveness.


Interesting take. Sorry you've had that horrible experience with so many folks..Christian or not. I think people are inherently good.

And I highly doubt the idea that to live any way you choose under the protection of forgiveness is the typical outlook of Christians....


----------



## turnera

Then you're oblivious.

How old are you, again?

fwiw, I mean no disrespect. But when I see someone blindly saying that just because someone is a Christian, they will not do wrong, it's not only wrong, it's harmful.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> Then you're oblivious.
> 
> How old are you, again?
> 
> fwiw, I mean no disrespect. But when I see someone blindly saying that just because someone is a Christian, they will not do wrong, it's not only wrong, it's harmful.


Not sure where in this thread it was said that Christians can do no wrong? 

My point about being a mistake to marry a non-believer wasn't about her being a bad person or me being better than her. My point was when two people marry and don't have the same beliefs or outlooks on life they're already starting the relationship on the wrong foot.


----------



## turnera

And yet you are saying that, _because_ she is a 'non-believer' THAT is the reason she's hurting you.


----------



## Catherine602

Can you move towards at lest exploring D? It is not a commitment to D just an exploration of your options. It will also allow you time to think about how your future and you child's future will look.


----------



## honcho

Your children are young enough now that if you get divorced while it will be a confusing time for them and stressful now in a few years they will not remember it. 

You think she was coming around the last couple of months…that things were getting better and you were having the children most of your off hours from work. She has probably viewed you as the built in babysitter and been “nicer” so she could spend more time in her other world having fun. You’re the convenience item. 

Just taking the current om and her previous actions with the ex-boyfriend etc out of the equation it sounds like you both have fundamentally different beliefs and this can be very polarizing in a relationship. She has zero reason to change, she has done exactly what she wants and you have taken it. 

I understand your beliefs and wants about family and your desire to keep it together. Don’t take it the wrong way but your fighting for an “ideal” How do you actually feel about your wife? Maybe I missed it somewhere but why do you want to remain married to her? Other than the principle. Children grow up and create there own lives. Marriage is supposed to be a lifetime commitment but that is based on two people who share the same commitment. That commitment is not a lifetime prison term for one.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> And yet you are saying that, _because_ she is a 'non-believer' THAT is the reason she's hurting you.


I didn't say that either.....my thought though is if we had a mutual belief and guide for our life together....namely God and the bible, things may be different.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



Catherine602 said:


> Can you move towards at lest exploring D? It is not a commitment to D just an exploration of your options. It will also allow you time to think about how your future and you child's future will look.


Absolutely I think it's a good idea and will be calling paralegal Monday.


----------



## turnera

mvnfwd said:


> I didn't say that either.....my thought though is if we had a mutual belief and guide for our life together....namely God and the bible, things may be different.


Trust me, I understand why you THINK that. And that's why I'm saying that just saying "I married a Christian so she will never cheat on me" is your first mistake. 

Cheaters come in all stripes, mvnfwd. Religious or not has NO bearing on whether a person cheats. The sooner you can accept that, the sooner you can see your real situation for the truth that it is.

Shed that 'she's not a believer and that's how I got screwed over' mentality. 

THEN deal with your reality and make choices to move forward. Lying to yourself that the reason you got cheated on is because you chose a non-believer is KEEPING you from accepting the truth - you chose a CHEATER.


----------



## ThePheonix

Machiavelli said:


> When you start down the usually Quixotic path of reconciliation from wifely adultery, it helps if you're the hottest guy around and women are constantly coming on to you.


If you're the hottest guy around with women coming on to you, why would you want to go back where you've been downgraded to no greater than second. If that's the situation, she's put you on the other side of the fence and the grass is greener. Time to start grazing my man.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by mvnfwd *
> I agree. It was a mistake to marry a non believer
> 
> 
> 
> *By Turnera*
> You can't be serious?!
> 
> Of the top worst people I've known in my 50+ years, all but ONE have been 'avowed Christians'; as my husband (a devout Lutheran) puts it, all Christianity means is that you get to do whatever you want and then ask for forgiveness
> 
> 
> 
> *Originally Posted by mvnfwd*
> And I highly doubt the idea that to live any way you choose under the protection of forgiveness is the typical outlook of Christians....
> 
> 
> *By Turnera*
> Then you're oblivious.
> 
> How old are you, again?
> 
> fwiw, I mean no disrespect. But when I see someone blindly saying that just because someone is a Christian, they will not do wrong, it's not only wrong, it's harmful
> 
> 
> And yet you are saying that, because she is a 'non-believer' THAT is the reason she's hurting you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Originally Posted by mvnfwd*
> I didn't say that either.....my thought though is if we had a mutual belief and guide for our life together....namely God and the bible, things may be different.







WOW, talk about someone adding their own skewed opinion into the posts of mvnfwd!!


Turnera judges mvnfwd as “oblivious” and asking how old mvnfwd is (condescending) then ads in something that is not even in the posts such as 


> “When I see someone blindly saying that just because someone is a Christian, they will not do wrong, it's not only wrong, it's harmful”



Then Turnera comes out with another one and I do not know where that came from


> And yet you are saying that, because she is a 'non-believer' THAT is the reason she's hurting you.


Turnera, if you are going to judge someone and then put words in their mouth at least try and post some quotes from mvnfwd.

Mvnfwd, what you did say shows some wisdom, you said



> .....my thought though is if we had a mutual belief and guide for our life together....namely God and the bible, things may be different.



*Someone like Turnera helps your statements as Turnera’s position being so opposite and so bias and without any substance makes you look better!!*


----------



## Catherine602

I am glad you are motivated to move out of a standstill. I think faith is action. It is difficult for man to stay on the Path if he/she is not moving. How do you yield to His guidance if you are standing still.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> Then you're oblivious.
> 
> How old are you, again?
> 
> fwiwd, I mean no disrespect. But when I see someone blindly saying that just because someone is a Christian, they will not do wrong, it's not only wrong, it's harmful.


Who said that. That's one statement iv never heard anyone say. Do people profess to be Christians and do evil things......? Of course but that doesn't make them Christians. Many are called, few are accepted.


----------



## Catherine602

It does not make him look better. It makes him think better. Have you considered that Turnera knows what she is doing? 

I'm very glad she is here. People need a kick in the pants and a helping hand. 

She frequently presents a foil for posters to counterpoint. It's not a role for the faint of heart.


----------



## Chaparral

ThePheonix said:


> If you're the hottest guy around with women coming on to you, why would you want to go back where you've been downgraded to no greater than second. If that's the situation, she's put you on the other side of the fence and the grass is greener. Time to start grazing my man.


Being hot will get you in the door. Being a nice guy will get a badboy coming in the backdoor and you thrown out the front door.


----------



## turnera

Mr Blunt said:


> Turnera judges mvnfwd as “oblivious” and asking how old mvnfwd is (condescending) then ads in something that is not even in the posts such as


He says that he should have married a believer so he would not have been cheated on. How oblivious IS that?

I asked his age because I believe that, if he were at least 40, he would have learned in the School Of Hard Knocks by now that blind belief doesn't guarantee the result you think it will give. You'd have learned by now that, beliefs or not, you're always at risk if you don't own your own side of the street and that blindly believing that marrying a Christian woman guarantees you safe passage is delusional - ne'e oblivious - to the reality in life today.


----------



## Nostromo

I believe the OP was referring to this. 

2 Corinthians 6:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Not taking a shot at anybody, just admitting he failed to look for the right qualifications in a wife.


----------



## Dyokemm

"my thought though is if we had a mutual belief and guide for our life together....namely God and the bible, things may be different."

Not necessarily....one of the most selfish and unrepentant cheating wives on this sight, Zanne, is an avowed conservative Christian.

I doubt it would make much difference from the many threads I've read hear on TAM.

Christians seem to cheat as much as anyone else, whether of a different religious tradition or non-believers.


----------



## turnera

Exactly my point.

And described to the OP so as to keep him from continuing in a false belief that, if he would just choose the perfect partner, he'll never be cheated on again.

In my hopes to show him that he needs to keep his eyes open and not rest on a false belief that one's religious choice keeps him from harm.


----------



## RClawson

turnera said:


> Trust me, I understand why you THINK that. And that's why I'm saying that just saying "I married a Christian so she will never cheat on me" is your first mistake.
> 
> Cheaters come in all stripes, mvnfwd. Religious or not has NO bearing on whether a person cheats. The sooner you can accept that, the sooner you can see your real situation for the truth that it is.
> 
> Shed that 'she's not a believer and that's how I got screwed over' mentality.
> 
> THEN deal with your reality and make choices to move forward. Lying to yourself that the reason you got cheated on is because you chose a non-believer is KEEPING you from accepting the truth - you chose a CHEATER.


Lighten up. What he said is that he should have married a believer. He is right he likely should have. Would it have guaranteed a successful relationship? I do not believe any of us are that naive but the would have had perspectives that would have mirrored one another for the most part.

What does he have now? A W that likely is wondering why she married a Christian guy? I can only imagine where her head is. Oh that is right it is up her a$$ and she is not a Christian.


----------



## turnera

Right, because being a Christian is the guard against cheating. Spare me.


----------



## happyman64

Mvnfwd

Is the house your wife lives in also yours?

Do you know if your wife brings the OM over to " your" house"

Does your wife know why you left the home?

Does your wife lie to you about dating, sleeping with her BF?

HM


----------



## Chaparral

Dyokemm said:


> "my thought though is if we had a mutual belief and guide for our life together....namely God and the bible, things may be different."
> 
> Not necessarily....one of the most selfish and unrepentant cheating wives on this sight, Zanne, is an avowed conservative Christian.
> 
> I doubt it would make much difference from the many threads I've read hear on TAM.
> 
> Christians seem to cheat as much as anyone else, whether of a different religious tradition or non-believers.


Zanne can call herself a duck but that doesn't make her a duck.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> Right, because being a Christian is the guard against cheating. Spare me.


Please...stop....not one of us is that brain dead


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



happyman64 said:


> Mvnfwd
> 
> Is the house your wife lives in also yours?
> 
> She's in a house I left and renting. I'm on lease.
> 
> Do you know if your wife brings the OM over to " your" house"
> 
> Yes she does.
> 
> Does your wife know why you left the home?
> 
> I left when I saw she was texting a coworker. Did not explain why.
> 
> Does your wife lie to you about dating, sleeping with her BF?
> 
> Yes she says separation and her position has nothing to do with another person.
> 
> HM


----------



## Chaparral

Do you have his name and number?


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



Chaparral said:


> Do you have his name and number?


yes


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



honcho said:


> Your children are young enough now that if you get divorced while it will be a confusing time for them and stressful now in a few years they will not remember it.
> 
> You think she was coming around the last couple of months…that things were getting better and you were having the children most of your off hours from work. She has probably viewed you as the built in babysitter and been “nicer” so she could spend more time in her other world having fun. You’re the convenience item.
> 
> Just taking the current om and her previous actions with the ex-boyfriend etc out of the equation it sounds like you both have fundamentally different beliefs and this can be very polarizing in a relationship. She has zero reason to change, she has done exactly what she wants and you have taken it.
> 
> I understand your beliefs and wants about family and your desire to keep it together. Don’t take it the wrong way but your fighting for an “ideal” How do you actually feel about your wife? Maybe I missed it somewhere but why do you want to remain married to her? Other than the principle. Children grow up and create there own lives. Marriage is supposed to be a lifetime commitment but that is based on two people who share the same commitment. That commitment is not a lifetime prison term for one.


Thank you....I think you have it right!


----------



## RClawson

turnera said:


> Right, because being a Christian is the guard against cheating. Spare me.


You generally impress me as an individual who is pretty bright but your coming off as quite ignorant to be honest. It does not take much to feel the distaste you have for Christians but your advice on this subject seems very personal. Why don't you quit while your ahead. I will leave at that.


----------



## warlock07

Please stop the threadjack everyone..


----------



## Chaparral

Since you have his name and number look him up at places like spokeo.com. Find out if he is married, where he lives and contact his wife/girlfriend about what he's doing. See if you can google his name and get a picture from facebook etc. If you can verify him put him on cheaterville.com. Then send the link to him, his wife, and your wife.

The odds are high that the affair with this scum bag is the reason for your wife wanting space two years ago. In any event divorce or not you need to break up this affair to keep such a sleaze away from your children.

You need to confront your wife with her adultery. She will say it doesn't matter because you're seperated. I would immediately do this and move back in and in a short time file for divorce and expose her to your familes and friends if she won't immedi ately stop the affair.


----------



## Chaparral

no more mister nice guy pdf download

Down load this free book, also download the mmslp book linked to below. One or both of these books will give you the reason your wife "needs space."


----------



## ThePheonix

mvnfwd said:


> Phoenix I get what you're saying but it's a hard fence to walk between being as you say "weak" and being committed to my marriage and family holding true to my faith.


Dawg, even Jesus kick the money changers out of the Temple when he had enough of the shenanigans. What you've got is hardly a marriage. She's already viscerally divorced you. Are you sure you're not using "faith" as a excuse to stay in the situation out of hopes she may come into the fold? A lot of guys use the old, "I'll get custody of the kids" in the same way.


----------



## Chaparral

Here is one review of Athol's book at amazon.com, check out the other reviews. At least one woman gave it five stars The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

*
May have saved my marriage.
By Brian M. on October 25, 2011
Format: Paperback Amazon Verified Purchase 
I don't remember exactly how I cam across this book, I think I found Athol's blog and ordered the book from there, but I know that my wife and I have been having ongoing problems for years and I was ready to get out.

Enter the Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011. I blasted through the book in two days, Athol's style is informal and accessible (most of the content is modified from the blog) that makes this book an easy read despite a ton of content.

After reading the book I realize that being the "nice guy" husband isn't enough to get my needs met in the marriage and have started the "plan" to bettering myself. My wife responded positively almost immediately, but was confused at how abrupt the change was. I'm in a constant battle with myself right now, trying to undo years worth of self-defeating behaviors that I thought would help. Trust me, it's worth it.

Guys, I can not recommend this book highly enough. Athol provides a fresh new way of looking at your relationship and gives biological, evolutionary, and otherwise completely rational explanations for how relationships work.

If your wife has shut down on you and you're feeling trapped, the problem may not be that you just aren't doing enough housework, like I've seen other books recommend, but that you aren't giving your wife a man that is worth being attracted to.

In sum, if you're willing to put forth some effort, this book works. If you aren't getting what you want out of the marriage, try this first. It will save you a ton of money that you'll be spending on hookers or lawyers. 
Comment Was this review helpful to you? 

Yes 


No
*


----------



## adriana

Chaparral said:


> Here is one review of Athol's book at amazon.com, check out the other reviews. At least one woman gave it five stars The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> *
> May have saved my marriage.
> By Brian M. on October 25, 2011
> Format: Paperback Amazon Verified Purchase
> I don't remember exactly how I cam across this book, I think I found Athol's blog and ordered the book from there, but I know that my wife and I have been having ongoing problems for years and I was ready to get out.
> 
> Enter the Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011. I blasted through the book in two days, Athol's style is informal and accessible (most of the content is modified from the blog) that makes this book an easy read despite a ton of content.
> 
> After reading the book I realize that being the "nice guy" husband isn't enough to get my needs met in the marriage and have started the "plan" to bettering myself. My wife responded positively almost immediately, but was confused at how abrupt the change was. I'm in a constant battle with myself right now, trying to undo years worth of self-defeating behaviors that I thought would help. Trust me, it's worth it.
> 
> Guys, I can not recommend this book highly enough. Athol provides a fresh new way of looking at your relationship and gives biological, evolutionary, and otherwise completely rational explanations for how relationships work.
> 
> If your wife has shut down on you and you're feeling trapped, the problem may not be that you just aren't doing enough housework, like I've seen other books recommend, but that you aren't giving your wife a man that is worth being attracted to.
> 
> In sum, if you're willing to put forth some effort, this book works. If you aren't getting what you want out of the marriage, try this first. It will save you a ton of money that you'll be spending on hookers or lawyers.
> Comment Was this review helpful to you?
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> No
> *



Actually, fake reviews have become a plague at Amazon and, based on how this one's written, I'm rather reluctant to believe it is genuine.


----------



## LongWalk

OP raised Christianity in his thread, so discussing it is not a thread jack if it ties in to advice.

Turnera's point, that Christianity does not prevent adultery, is obviously true. The Ten Commandments have not prevented sin; they merely point out what sin is.

It is possible that a Christian sinner may behave differently in rationalizing guilt, allocating blame, etc. Catholics confess sins and start fresh. Protestants have one on one talks with God.

Christian men and women fornicate like everyone else.


----------



## turnera

Thank you, LongWalk. I was only trying to point out to OP that, if he believes that he needs to choose a Christian woman NEXT time, so he doesn't get cheated on, I hope he will be more realistic than that. 

So he doesn't get hurt again.


----------



## Machiavelli

MVNFWD,

Since you're in good shape and most likely a reasonably high enough ranking male to get frequent offers from women, and given that your wife seems to be in contact with numerous men simultaneously, you have apparently gotten yourself involved with a sexual adventuress. She is probably not going to change, since she seems to be into variety.

What is your plan? Are you moving back in or filing?

Concerning the "controversy," it has been shown in some much discussed studies that the fewer premarital sex partners a woman has, the more likely she is to be "happy" in marriage after five years. Of course, 4-seven years and 12-14 are the generally accepted danger points for WWs. However, about 70% of first marriages "take." Yours did not. What is your wife's body count from before your marriage? She has a high enough one after. Now, as for "Christian" women, adultery has always been a problem within the church, as we see in the Epistles. Elders and Deacons are forbidden from having harems in the Pastorals, most likely due to female hypergamy and the resentment that would cause. However, it would be good to have spiritual unity within your next home.

You also should read MMSLP.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> Thank you, LongWalk. I was only trying to point out to OP that, if he believes that he needs to choose a Christian woman NEXT time, so he doesn't get cheated on, I hope he will be more realistic than that.
> 
> So he doesn't get hurt again.


Thanks for bringing that around for us.... One of the many things I'm learning is there are no absolutes. I just have to choose wisely to lessen the risks involved in loving someone. We're all capable of doing unspeakable thinks.


----------



## turnera

The closest thing to an absolute that I know of regarding finding the best mate is time. IMO, you need to date and be friends for at least 2 or 3 years so you can see how they operate in all sorts of experiences, to get to know the REAL them.


----------



## jack.c

Thers an old saying her in Italy:
wifes and oxens from your hometown.
What it means is that you never should get married to whom has not your same religion, culture or area of birth, because for one of them (or all of them) you will have marital problems, unless one of you is willing to give them up for the other..... and that never happens


----------



## wranglerman

jack.c said:


> Thers an old saying her in Italy:
> wifes and oxens from your hometown.
> What it means is that you never should get married to whom has not your same religion, culture or area of birth, because for one of them (or all of them) you will have marital problems, unless one of you is willing to give them up for the other..... and that never happens


Just because I like it doesn't mean I entirely agree with it!

My W sacrificed a lot to be with me, good or bad choice? Really don't know? 

She made a bad choice hence me ending up here, I made a choice to R and again, a reason why I ended up here.

I do agree that you need to get to know your future spouse in ways that can and are proven to be loyal and trust worthy, I once held the same idealistic view that good Christian women were less likely to be cheaters, life just simply told me otherwise!!


----------



## mvnfwd

So I've been really trying to put it all together....I've gotten both extremes from "expose and file" to "stay the course, love your wife"

I've come to the the conclusion that loving justice and exposure look like this for me. Opinions appreciated. Time line would be in next week or so....

"WW, I'm aware of where this separation has taken us and the line that you have crossed. If you want to move forward toward reconciliation by way of Christian counsel and a commitment to each other and God, I am willing. 

If we cannot move forward in this direction I will file for divorce immediately and the game will be over. I will be cordial for the children and I will move forward on my own."

It has been 2 years and the consensus is that is more than ample time to "figure" things out. I feel there is strength in putting my foot down finally and obviously standing by my position. As many have said this facade must be broken down with reality.


----------



## bandit.45

Nice paragraph. Nice words. You said absolutely nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hoosier

OP: First, really sorry you are now a member of the club that no one wants to belong to. I get it completely.

Dude, what you need to understand, you need to pray over.... Your wife is gone.... You keep talking about reconciliation, and no way is that happening unless you are willing to let her go. I was where you are now once. I so wanted my wife to reconcile, but she was not interested at all. Only difference is I gave her two weeks, you have given her two years. You, my friend, need to realize that she is happy with how things are, she is not stressed, not upset, she is living large...why would she want to change? Time to man up! Time to disrupt her world, not that I think it is going to give you a chance, but if you have any at all that would be it. You keep saying how "in a week". You are going to do this or that. What is wrong with today? Become the leader of your household! Not the mat outside its door. All the best advice does no good to the person who refuses to utilize it. Up to this point your situation has been on your wife, today it starts to point to you. Good luck! Hope you wise up soon, I know you can, but you have to want to. Praying for you..


----------



## Catherine602

mvnfwd said:


> So I've been really trying to put it all together....I've gotten both extremes from "expose and file" to "stay the course, love your wife"
> 
> I've come to the the conclusion that loving justice and exposure look like this for me. Opinions appreciated. Time line would be in next week or so....
> 
> "WW, I'm aware of where this separation has taken us and the line that you have crossed. If you want to move forward toward reconciliation by way of Christian counsel and a commitment to each other and God, I am willing.
> 
> If we cannot move forward in this direction I will file for divorce immediately and the game will be over. I will be cordial for the children and I will move forward on my own."
> 
> It has been 2 years and the consensus is that is more than ample time to "figure" things out. I feel there is strength in putting my foot down finally and obviously standing by my position. As many have said this facade must be broken down with reality.


Too many words and explanations. I really don't think you should leave it up to her. She'll string you along as long as you allow. 

You are a very principled man but you are casting your principles on a dry soil. What does scripture say about that? What is one interpretation of the parable of hiding your light under a basket? 

You are not meant to throw away the gifts of loyalty and a just heart. Bestow them upon a more deserving woman. Rescue your children. 

Show them what love, respect and loyalty looks like. It is not what they are seeing now - their father being disrespected and their mother disrespecting herself.

Have faith and let this go.


----------



## Chaparral

adriana said:


> Actually, fake reviews have become a plague at Amazon and, based on how this one's written, I'm rather reluctant to believe it is genuine.


I am aware of that, I'm guesings its common knowledge by now. However, it sounds just like the reviews that have been posted by many betrayed men here.

I don't think anyone would make a decision on one review.


----------



## Nucking Futs

mvnfwd said:


> So I've been really trying to put it all together....I've gotten both extremes from "expose and file" to "stay the course, love your wife"
> 
> I've come to the the conclusion that loving justice and exposure look like this for me. Opinions appreciated. Time line would be in next week or so....
> 
> *"WW, I'm aware of where this separation has taken us and the line that you have crossed. If you want to move forward toward reconciliation by way of Christian counsel and a commitment to each other and God, I am willing.
> 
> If we cannot move forward in this direction I will file for divorce immediately and the game will be over. I will be cordial for the children and I will move forward on my own."
> *
> It has been 2 years and the consensus is that is more than ample time to "figure" things out. I feel there is strength in putting my foot down finally and obviously standing by my position. As many have said this facade must be broken down with reality.


Wow. The words of a quintessential nice guy. The nice guy is deep in your bones, you're going to have to work to root it out.

I'll help you out with your confront script.

You say: Nothing
She says: "What the hell, you filed for divorce and the first I hear about it is when I get served?"
You say: Nothing or "Yep."

Let your actions speak for you, skip the words. If she wants to reconcile she knows how to go about it, you don't need to tell her how to do it unless she asks. Let me make this more clear: Don't even think of mentioning reconciliation to her unless she is asking for it. Don't bring it up at all, don't think about it, don't hope for it. Plan to divorce, make every move you make move you inexorably towards divorce. Implement the 180.

Frankly the chances of reconciliation are close to nil, but if you're going to have any chance at all you have to eliminate your nice guy. I think you're way too late to save this.


----------



## Nucking Futs

adriana said:


> Actually, fake reviews have become a plague at Amazon and, based on how this one's written, I'm rather reluctant to believe it is genuine.


Wait, there are fake reviews on Amazon? Are these fake?


----------



## bandit.45

He's been brainwashed by his idiot pastor to the point he thinks he's Hosea. Come hell or high water he's going to stand by a woman who has zero respect for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

mvnfwd said:


> "WW, I'm aware of where this separation has taken us and the line that you have crossed. If you want to move forward toward reconciliation by way of Christian counsel and a commitment to each other and God, I am willing."


 If you say this, what little respect that she may still have for you will forever be lost. Saying this would in effect be stating that she has crossed the line in having sex with another man in your own home, but now that she has had her fun if she is willing to stop, you will forgive and take her back, until she gets the urge again. Other than her losing all respect for you, you would accomplish nothing as she is not likely to really take you up on this. Even if she at first does appear to take you up on it for some ulterior motive, it will not last.



mvnfwd said:


> "I will file for divorce immediately and the game will be over. I will be cordial for the children and I will move forward on my own."


 Say this and only this. She cannot love someone that she does not respect, and she cannot respect you until you act in er eyes worthy of respect. You must file for divorce and mean it. Do not look back. Divorce takes time, so you can always much later (not right away) stop it if she earns the right to a second chance by her efforts and action, and not just her words.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

mvnfwd said:


> I didn't say that either.....my thought though is if we had a mutual belief and guide for our life together....namely God and the bible, things may be different.


Yes, 'may be'....just as often as in non-christians relation.

There are a lot of righteous, honest, perfect spouses noted on these threads of whom the betrayed spouse never ever would have said that cheating was even a possibility. Until they cheated.


----------



## happyman64

Then why not show up one night, let yourself in since you are on the lease, when she is with her BF and introduce yourself.

Then watch your wifes face. Then listen to the lies.

Then excuse yourself.

So you go to your lawyers the next day.


----------



## Machiavelli

bandit.45 said:


> He's been brainwashed by his idiot pastor to the point he thinks he's *Hosea*. Come hell or high water he's going to stand by a woman who has zero respect for him.


Hosea's abuse continues, not from his hooker wife, but at the hands of preachers who think they have the right to mangle context. But what can you expect from a practice (homiletics) brought into the church by Sophist converts other than sophistry.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Nucking Futs said:


> Wow. The words of a quintessential nice guy. The nice guy is deep in your bones, you're going to have to work to root it out.
> 
> I'll help you out with your confront script.
> 
> You say: Nothing
> She says: "What the hell, you filed for divorce and the first I hear about it is when I get served?"
> You say: Nothing or "Yep."
> 
> Let your actions speak for you, skip the words. If she wants to reconcile she knows how to go about it, you don't need to tell her how to do it unless she asks. Let me make this more clear: Don't even think of mentioning reconciliation to her unless she is asking for it. Don't bring it up at all, don't think about it, don't hope for it. Plan to divorce, make every move you make move you inexorably towards divorce. Implement the 180.
> 
> Frankly the chances of reconciliation are close to nil, but if you're going to have any chance at all you have to eliminate your nice guy. I think you're way too late to save this.


OP, I really would advise you to listen to this. And Do It.


----------



## Machiavelli

MVNFWD,

If you're not willing or able to move back in, file on her @ss. You can always slow down or drop it if she has a Damascus Road experience.


----------



## turnera

How about this instead:

"Wife, you've torn this marriage to shreds with your actions. There's a VERY tiny chance I could ever forgive you enough to keep this marriage intact. It would require a LOT of work on your part and, for doing that, I'd be willing to also investigate through MC my role in your unhappiness (as well as your role in mine). But I've seen no remorse from you for the ultimate dagger in my heart, so all I can say at this point is I'm moving on, to find a faithful spouse. You're welcome to try to change my mind."


----------



## adriana

This thread is becoming comical.


----------



## Catherine602

How about this:

"Wife, I release you".


----------



## Catherine602

Machiavelli said:


> Hosea's abuse continues, not from his hooker wife, but at the hands of preachers who think they have the right to mangle context. But what can you expect from a practice (homiletics) brought into the church by Sophist converts other than sophistry.


----------



## Gabriel

mvnfwd said:


> "WW, I'm aware of where this separation has taken us and the line that you have crossed. If you want to move forward toward reconciliation by way of Christian counsel and a commitment to each other and God, I am willing.
> 
> If we cannot move forward in this direction I will file for divorce immediately and the game will be over. I will be cordial for the children and I will move forward on my own."


Say this instead, 

"WW, I'm aware you f*cked another man. Here are some papers for you to sign.

I will be cordial so we can jointly parent our children, but our marriage is over."

Done.


----------



## bandit.45

Catherine602 said:


> How about this:
> 
> "Wife, I release you".


I divorce thee! Get thee to a nunnery harlot!


----------



## BashfulB

Friend, I feel so bad for you. But I agree with the others that you are deluding yourself. You are holding on to a pipe dream, an illusion. Your marriage no longer exists. You love someone who no longer loves you. 

You need to make everyone aware of what she has done and what she is doing. You need to file for divorce. It killed me to divorce my cheating ex wife, yet now six months down the road I am divorced and engaged to the most wonderful woman I have ever known. Up until my wife betrayed me I thought she was the greatest woman I had ever known. Boy was I wrong. My fiencee is so superior to her in every way as to almost be humorous. 

I think there is a woman out there who will make you completely forget any love you ever had for that treacherous hussy you are married too. You just have to have the courage to get out of this sham, out of slavery, and into a new life for yourself.


----------



## Machiavelli

Catherine602 said:


>


Hosea is one of the "minor prophets." In the Bible.


----------



## bandit.45

Machiavelli said:


> Hosea is one of the "minor prophets." In the Bible.
> 
> *...who's wife was a ho....*


----------



## Machiavelli

bandit.45 said:


> ...who's wife was a ho....



Well...at least one of them was.


----------



## Catherine602

Machiavelli said:


> Hosea's abuse continues, not from his hooker wife, but at the hands of preachers who think they have the right to mangle context. But what can you expect from a practice (homiletics) brought into the church by Sophist converts other than sophistry.


:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:
Thanks but you give me far too much credit. i can't understand the entire post.


----------



## mvnfwd

Thanks again for all the time you've put into my situation. Not all comments were easy to read, but I wanted no punches pulled and that's what I got.....I truly appreciate it. I will post the news once delivered to her.


----------



## honcho

She has shown no willingness to reconcile with you. She knows your current position and has not given you even a shred of hope from her that she wants to reconcile. She knows full well at anytime she can try and come back, that is why she is doing whatever she pleases. You offering reconciliation yet one more time to her is a WASTE of time and will only reinforce her current view of you. 

Life almost always come down to a choice between one or the other. Either you file for divorce or you live life in limboland waiting for her to finally put the kill shot on this marriage when she feels like it. The one constant in the last two years of your life is your willingness to take her back and her unwillingness to come back. Look at your situation today, you have proven one thing, what you have done didn’t work. Accept that and try something different.


----------



## manfromlamancha

OK in response to your thread title, your next move/s is/are very simple and as follows:

1. Nothing to do with faith, religion, Christianity or anything of the like, your wife is NOT a nice person - in fact she is lying, deceitful and disrespectful - but you already know this - and should be treated as such. That means do not be a friend or companion to her and treat her like the enemy.

2. Divorce her - do this asap whilst protecting yourself and yours.

3. Try and move her out of your life and try and go for max custody.


Very simple - there is nothing (and I repeat, nothing) here to salvage. Do not waste time with this no matter what you think your faith is telling you to do - else you will suffer more and you will most definitely not be doing yourself any favours.


----------



## Nucking Futs

manfromlamancha said:


> OK in response to your thread title, your next move/s is/are very simple and as follows:
> 
> 1. Nothing to do with faith, religion, Christianity or anything of the like, your wife is NOT a nice person - in fact she is lying, deceitful and disrespectful - but you already know this - and should be treated as such. That means do not be a friend or companion to her and treat her like the enemy.
> 
> 2. Divorce her - do this asap whilst protecting yourself and yours.
> 
> 3. Try and move her out of your life and try and go for max custody.
> 
> 
> Very simple - there is nothing (and I repeat, nothing) here to salvage. Do not waste time with this no matter what you think your faith is telling you to do - else you will suffer more and you will most definitely not be doing yourself any favours.


Going for max custody is a waste of time and money, he's thoroughly screwed himself by moving out and leaving the kids with her. The best he can hope for is 50/50 and I wouldn't want to bet on that.


----------



## lordmayhem

Nucking Futs said:


> Going for max custody is a waste of time and money, he's thoroughly screwed himself by moving out and leaving the kids with her. The best he can hope for is 50/50 and I wouldn't want to bet on that.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

And its been two years now on top of that.

Far too many men screw themselves over by moving out when their wife tells them to. For any new BS's who are lurking, this is an example of what NOT to do.


----------



## mvnfwd

With regard to custody I've also heard that moving out can hurt my cause. It was a very tough decision to make 5 months ago. I have though logged all the time I've had them, which has been more than 50% of the time.


----------



## vellocet

> I'm at a loss on my next move....


You divorce her.



> Thanks for your input. I do agree I don't deserve what she's doing.....my hang up is the advice I've gotten from my Pastor. He's says stay the course continue to love my wife. I am true to my faith but really?



Do not listen to your pastor. He isn't thinking so much about you as he is about "God". Stay and continue to love a cheating wife who is being penetrated by another man? 



> What are the odds she snaps into reality?


Even if she does, she got to have her little fun and you will forever get to replay in your mind her bouncing up and down on him. Sorry to put it that way, but that's what happened.

Why would you even want her any longer? If for "love", then go ahead and listen to the pastor. But I think it would be a mistake. People reconcile, but I think true reconciliation where there is a happy ending is few and far between.


----------



## vellocet

mvnfwd said:


> With regard to custody I've also heard that moving out can hurt my cause.


It can, but no more than the cause is already hurt. She is the mother. If she wants custody, she will get it. That is of course you have something on her like drug use or child abuse, etc. If you can prove nothing of the sort to show her as unfit, then moving out didn't hurt anything because you are the father. You already had 3 strikes against you. Believe me, I know.




> It was a very tough decision to make 5 months ago. I have though logged all the time I've had them, which has been more than 50% of the time.


I hate to say it, but it won't matter unless she agrees to 50/50, to let you have custody, or again, you have something on her.


----------



## Acabado

You need to:
1- Talk to a shark lawyer ASAP and prepare everything for the day...
2- ...you go back home, along with the guy that serves her the papers shortly after making all the financial moves.

Any slim chance you might have to save this marriage (my guess is less than 0.00001%) will once arise if you shock her like this.


----------



## naiveonedave

On the whole God thing.... Jesus stated infidelity is grounds for divorce. Just saying


----------



## just got it 55

mvnfwd said:


> With regard to custody I've also heard that moving out can hurt my cause. It was a very tough decision to make 5 months ago. I have though logged all the time I've had them, which has been more than 50% of the time.


mvnfwd

Smart but incomplete

Move back home and re establish residency

Spend 100% of your time with your children outside of work

Then you will see how nice she treats you 

You will become the worlds most notorious villain.

VAR with you at all times

55


----------



## mom1.2

3putt said:


> Assuming this is what you want, then nothing would make her affair fog break faster than a full blown exposure. No guarantees, of course, but you'd be no worse off than you are right now.
> 
> She's doing nothing but cake eating right now. She's got the best of both worlds; you *and* him.
> 
> What exactly do you want to do? What's your end goal here?


What affair? She is not having an affair - she is separated from her husband, as in - living separately - and she is seeing another man. Even though she has not file for divorce/legal separation - she is NOT living with you as a wife (((
Whether you decide to accept it or not - is up to you. If you do not - file for divorce.


----------



## just got it 55

mom1.2 said:


> What affair? She is not having an affair - she is separated from her husband, as in - living separately - and she is seeing another man. Even though she has not file for divorce/legal separation - she is NOT living with you as a wife (((
> Whether you decide to accept it or not - is up to you. If you do not - file for divorce.


I think he left the home only to offer her "SPACE"

55


----------



## turnera

mvn, what's the reality here? Was she seeing someone before you left?


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> mvn, what's the reality here? Was she seeing someone before you left?


I was never able to confirm it but there were multiple obvious signs. Only confirmed beyond any doubt recently.


----------



## Thorburn

As a former pastor and chaplain I would like to chime in.

I sought pastoral help last year. He was recommended by my BIL. Initally he helped. He suggested that I write my wife a letter. It basically stated that I love her and that out of love I was divorcing her.

After I gave my wife that letter, my wife met with this pastor and his wife and things got very nasty between the pastor, some in my wife's family and myself. The pastor lied to my wife's family and my wife about me. He believed my wife's story about me being abusive and stated that I was a pathological control freak. Her family took the side of the pastor.

Some pastors when dealing with a believing spouse who is married to an "unbeliever", will exhort you to stay the course and show love. But many will give you advice that adultery is cause to end the marriage.

In your case I would suggest that you simply end this marriage. File for D. Your attempts at trying to convince her to R are in vain. You bought into her "I need space" speech and gave it to her. All she meant by that is "I found someone else".

I could quote bible verse after bible verse, but the bottom line is you are free to divorce this woman. She has not shown any respect to you and I don't think your pastor gets it.


----------



## Hoosier

Want to say again what has already been told you.... Get a VAR, have it on you all the time. Now some on here will tell you it is illegal in some states, cant be used in court. But let me tell you it can be used in the "Family" court. Can be used for friends and family to hear what was really said and done. For me, I don't really care about legal or not. I would want something to back me up with those I care for, my family and friends...

I repeat..... Get a VAR!


----------



## tom67

Hoosier said:


> Want to say again what has already been told you.... Get a VAR, have it on you all the time. Now some on here will tell you it is illegal in some states, cant be used in court. But let me tell you it can be used in the "Family" court. Can be used for friends and family to hear what was really said and done. For me, I don't really care about legal or not. I would want something to back me up with those I care for, my family and friends...
> 
> I repeat..... Get a VAR!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
You are using the var to stay out of jail! Not court.


----------



## EHuntIMF

turnera said:


> Trust me, I understand why you THINK that. And that's why I'm saying that just saying "I married a Christian so she will never cheat on me" is your first mistake.
> 
> Cheaters come in all stripes, mvnfwd. Religious or not has NO bearing on whether a person cheats. The sooner you can accept that, the sooner you can see your real situation for the truth that it is.
> 
> Shed that 'she's not a believer and that's how I got screwed over' mentality.
> 
> THEN deal with your reality and make choices to move forward. Lying to yourself that the reason you got cheated on is because you chose a non-believer is KEEPING you from accepting the truth - you chose a CHEATER.


First @Tunera- I get that you have your views on Christianity, but I think you missed the point mvnfwd was making on the reconciliation discussion. he wasn't saying that if he had chosen a christian wife that she wouldn't have cheated. He was stating that the path of reconciliation for him would have to be through christian principles. (2 corinthians) He difficulty was that since she is NOT a believer, she more than likely would not be interested in such a path to take. It would be like a democrat having an offence against a republican, and the republican would have to go through a democratic based counseling session in order to have a chance to reconcile. (Save the 'this proves my point' jargon....I was just showing you were he is coming from)

@mvnfwd- I get it. BELIEVE ME....I get it. You want to do right according to Biblical principles and God. I am also a christian man, and I understand what you are going through. I know the turmoil between doing what is according to your faith and believing in the Almighty and the other side of just letting it all go and moving on.

I Get it! So what I am about to say...I will probably get a Hellstorm from it, from some.....oh well.

mvnfwd...........File! No questions, no discussions.....just file! 

(Doesn't this go against biblical principles?......I am glad you asked.....let me help you with that."

She cheated- you can file, may your spirit be at ease.....

I know its not that simple so here is the rest of it:

The FIRST thing you are going to have to do is.........FORGIVE HER, give her to God, and release any desire for revenge or the like. (For the rest of the peanut gallery....I said forgive.....forgiveness has NOTHING to do with reconciliation....yes mvnfwd....its biblical) Forgiveness is about letting your ideas, hopes, and dreams (ie control) for the person and giving them to God, and allowing God to work on you. That the only control you have is YOUR thoughts, YOUR actions, and YOUR attitude in this whole situation. Read Matthew 6:14-15 We forgive so that we can be forgiven of OUR sins....so in this context we truly need to forgive for OUR OWN SAKES. 

Are you finding it hard to forgive her and still want revenge in some way shape form a fashion? read Matthew 18:21-35 about the unmerciful servant and remember that God is represented as the King in the parable.

Is it hard for this line of thinking? Yes, but HE didn't promise us that this life would be easy....in fact he promised that we would have trouble on this earth (John 16:33), but through him and his grace that we can overcome it.

A lot of the information you are getting works, but there is a point where you will have to go a slightly different route than what everyone here is telling you. I was in almost the same boat as you, coming up on 2 years like yourself. I filed as late as I did, because there was stuff inside of me, I had to deal with and part of that was forgiving my STBXW, not seeking revenge, and even asking the Lord to not hold the sin against her. (Jesus said the same prayer being on the cross) I will be the FIRST to tell you, this was not an overnight process......as I said, I am coming up on 2 years.

Is this an ideal situation?....NO! 
Do we live in an ideal world?
God can do all things? Yes
Will he violate our will....No

You can not dictate what she will do.....She is a grown woman, who made a grown woman decision. There are consequences to decisions, both good and bad.

You will need to let her go, and if she allows God to work on her, fantastic and Hallelujah! 
This is about your healing and becoming stronger because of this....the road is long and there are times you will feel like you are losing because of your faith......I am here to encourage you that things will work out in the end (Romans 8:24-28) your timing and his timing are on 2 different scales. Patience with God and yourself in working through this, but also be DILIGENT in taking care of yourself, your family, and your relationship with God.

To everyone: I know this is long and I will not apologize for my views, but I felt compelled to help someone out who I can empathize with.

OK.....Shield and umbrella out.....let the storm come.


----------



## OnTheRocks

mvnfwd said:


> I agree. It was a mistake to marry a non believer.....I guess what I did fail to mention is that a reconciliation would have to be one that was centered around Christian values etc. She may or may not even be willing.
> 
> Yes this is definitely at the root of this whole situation.


My exW regularly cited my lack of faith as one of the reasons we were "growing apart". A few months of limbo / cake eating later, I finally managed to find hard evidence of the real reason we were growing apart.


----------



## lordmayhem

mvnfwd said:


> I was never able to confirm it but there were multiple obvious signs. Only confirmed beyond any doubt recently.


----------



## wranglerman

mvnfwd said:


> I was never able to confirm it but there were multiple obvious signs. *Only confirmed beyond any doubt recently.*


What was? 

A) That she is seeing another guy after you left home to give her space.

B) That she was cheating on you whilst you were living at home?

Please fill in this blank for me.


----------



## wranglerman

I completely agree to be armed with a VAR when you file/confront/mention in passing.

I know for a fact that had I not had my VAR last year my life could be enormously different from how it is now!!!


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



wranglerman said:


> What was?
> 
> A) That she is seeing another guy after you left home to give her space.
> 
> B) That she was cheating on you whilst you were living at home?
> 
> Please fill in this blank for me.


Unfortunately only confirmed she is currently sleeping with someone since I've left the house. Never went to extreme before I left to find out.


----------



## wranglerman

Even if you can only prove that it was after you moved out it is still adultery.

please remind me, who's idea was it to move out 5 months ago?


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



wranglerman said:


> Even if you can only prove that it was after you moved out it is still adultery.
> 
> please remind me, who's idea was it to move out 5 months ago?


She had pushed for space so hard and was so hard to live with.....I moved out after seeing she had been texting a coworker inappropriately. 

(The more I put "pen to paper" the more I realize I only have one option and that's to divorce her and snuff out this small sliver of hope built in my mind)


----------



## bryanp

Her actions continue to show that she does not have any respect for you and your marriage whatsoever. IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?

If she wanted separation to screw her boyfriend so bad why in the hell didn't you make her move out? You move out and she moves her boyfriend into your home. What kind of bull **** is this?
Move back into your home and file for divorce. Why are you willing to accept such humiliation and disrespect from her. She has played you like a fiddle. Enough is enough!


----------



## wranglerman

mvnfwd said:


> She had pushed for space so hard and was so hard to live with.....I moved out after seeing she had been texting a coworker inappropriately.
> 
> (The more I put "pen to paper" the more I realize I only have one option and that's to divorce her and snuff out this small sliver of hope built in my mind)


So, correct me if I am wrong here, she was inappropriately texting a co-worker, she then pushed you to move out of your marital home, she is now proven to be having sexual contact with another man outside of her marriage to you.


----------



## vellocet

mom1.2 said:


> What affair? She is not having an affair - she is separated from her husband, as in - living separately - and she is seeing another man. Even though she has not file for divorce/legal separation - she is NOT living with you as a wife


And this matters how exactly? 

Yes, she is having an affair. She is still married to her husband. If she wants to spread her legs for another man and say its not an affair, she can get a divorce then she can do whatever the hell she wants and won't have to worry that she had an affair.


----------



## LongWalk

Dear Movin,

You are certain about the affair. Do you know who her partner in fornication is? I suggest that you post POSOM on Cheaterville. This is a most effect method of giving him a sharp knee in the groin.

Post him with photos. You can find them on his FB page if you know who he is. You can send the CV link to his colleagues and FB friends. You can send the mails via an Internet cafe so that there is no trace to you.

POSOM will whine to your WW and ask her to beg you to spare him the humiiation. You will only smile calmly and say that you are divorcing her. Make your divorce as brutal as possible. If you contribute money to your wife, cut it off. 

Make certain you file for 50/50 custody. Expose the affair to her family.

You need to make her infidelity inconvenient and embarrassing. So far your doormat approach has undermined your sex ranking. You are at the bottom of a mine shaft standing in an icy puddle. Your wife believes that you are a non-entity as far a women go. She cannot image anyone desiring you. You need to show that you are not going to languish at the bottom of the pit. You are coming out into the sunlight. 

Wash the grit off your face. Act confidently.

I am not a Christian but if there is a Christ, he is on your side. He will allow you to forgive those who betrayed you. The POSOM is a human being. That you will not deny. You will act forcefully so that you can avoid being a bitter and hateful man. You are saving yourself, so that you can be a good father and good husband.

There is no Christian reason to be a doormat. The other cheek that needs to be turned at the moment is not yours but your wife's. Her behind should be turned toward the OM as she marches back to you. If she remains a sinner, you must abandon her. The tune is "I love you but goodbye".


----------



## Catherine602

mvnfwd said:


> She had pushed for space so hard and was so hard to live with.....I moved out after seeing she had been texting a coworker inappropriately.
> 
> (The more I put "pen to paper" the more I realize I only have one option and that's to divorce her and snuff out this small sliver of hope built in my mind)


You have a legal right to move back in. You also have a moral imperative to do so. You gave her space but she used it to begin another relationship. Are your children exposed to this man? 

You should be concerned about your children. You want to bring them up with the values you and your wife agreed on. If she can't abide by that then she should leave the family home. 

Move back in. Tell her she has had enough time and you don't think that it is good for the children to not live with their father. You don't have to say anything about the OM. You need to gather concrete evidence. 

Don't start D until you move back in and get evidence. The way you present it - You moved out to give her space and had no intension of permanently moving out. 

If she makes it difficult, do what you can to lessen that. Get a VAR and a maybe a hidden camera. Move to another part of the house and avoid her.

Do you have friends or relatives that can help you move and stay for a few hrs to help get settled?


----------



## honcho

He has not lived with his wife for 5 months, no legal paperwork as been filed. They are still married. Whether she was having an affair before or after he moved out is almost a mute point debating the timing. 

She is seeing other man and has not filed for divorce or even a legal separation. Even back in your posts from 2012 you suspected something was going on. The timing of when she started seeing other people is almost irrelevant at this point. She is and she is telling him this in the here and now. 

We still come back to the facts as you have presented them. You have had marital problems for 2 years, you have been living seperatately for 5 months. She is NOT asking to reconcile and pulled her life farther away from you. Who is paying the kids/housing expenses? Is she a SAHM? 

At no point has this marriage had any signs of life other than your “hope” and the occasional dinner for a long time. You can do all the voice recordings and exposing all you want it doesnt change the fact that based on the information you currently know you can make an informed decision on YOUR life. As I have stated before, choice is bury your head in the sand and maintain the status quo or file for divorce.

You can move back in if you choose, legally she cant stop you. Do you want the house? Right now it would be the only reason to move back and hope she moves out. Or she will then finally file for divorce and try to keep the home. The courts really don’t care who moved out in todays day and age. Most of the evidence gathering stuff people are suggesting is helpful in reinforcing your decision but legally its not going to do anything unless you live in one of the few states with “at fault”


----------



## mvnfwd

Some great advice. There is a very clear consensus that makes the decision to divorce without considering R a bit more palatable. Wish I could reply to each of you.


----------



## OnTheRocks

She is "letting" you come to "family" dinners. Think about that. I went through the same BS for a while myself, FWIW. Never again.


----------



## ThePheonix

MVN, it really ain't about the new man. The gal wanted you out pure and simple. I suspect its with her like it is with a lot of woman, she lost that loving feeling. She was out of love with you before the new man took your place. The reality is she ain't coming back my man.


----------



## Chaparral

ThePheonix said:


> MVN, it really ain't about the new man. The gal wanted you out pure and simple. I suspect its with her like it is with a lot of woman, she lost that loving feeling. She was out of love with you before the new man took your place. The reality is she ain't coming back my man.


I'm not so sure. Assuming what you say is so, why didn't she file for divorce..........money?


----------



## Chaparral

M, what state do you live in? This makes a difference in grounds for divorce and alimony.


----------



## Tall

Refreshing to see someone take the advice here.
Mvnfwd, you are going to be happy that you did.


----------



## Hoosier

He hasn't done anything yet, once he does then kudos are appropriate, until then wait and see.

I say move back in, today is a good day, then avoid her and start divorce, but move back in for your kids sake. 

Oh, and get the VAR!


----------



## ThePheonix

Chaparral said:


> I'm not so sure. Assuming what you say is so, why didn't she file for divorce..........money?


I'm basing it on what she did rather than what she hasn't done. Pushing him for "space", meaning she doesn't want him near her, obviously viewing his moving out favorably, and taking up with another man is not an indication she has getting back together with him on her mind. Once a woman is done with you, even if you manage to get back together, all you have is a poor clone of what you started with. If she comes back its because she has no better place to go. You end up with the woman because you're the only game in town.


----------



## Decorum

mvnfwd said:


> She had pushed for space so hard and was so hard to live with.....I moved out after seeing she had been texting a coworker inappropriately.
> 
> (The more I put "pen to paper" the more I realize I only have one option and that's to divorce her and snuff out this small sliver of hope built in my mind)


HA HA I knew this thread would take some interesting twists and turns because of the faith element.

MF at this point you realize some of your mistakes. (Moving out, not exposing, trying to be nice, etc)

Taking the right decisions can seem very counter-intuitive, but the same actions that are required to end a relationship are the same ones that can save it when infidelity is involved.

I am chiming in to say yes, File!

Whatever the outcome, it really is your only reasonable option in the face of your circumstances.

It is a dark time but you will walk in the light again, stronger, wiser and tested by fire.

I wish you well, take care!


----------



## Catherine602

mvnfwd said:


> Some great advice. There is a very clear consensus that makes the decision to divorce without considering R a bit more palatable. Wish I could reply to each of you.


Glad you are moving in a direction no matter which way you go. Have you decided to move back in? 

We can help you weather the storm of protest from your wife if you'd like.


----------



## mvnfwd

Thank you Catherine 602.

I'm not interested in moving back in. I don't want the home and quite honestly it would be more difficult on the kids. Currently I can't afford the home on my income.


----------



## lordmayhem

Hoosier said:


> He hasn't done anything yet, once he does then kudos are appropriate, until then wait and see.


:iagree:

Look at Lifescript, he said that in May of last year, and still hasn't done a thing.


----------



## turnera

Except stop posting because he knows we're getting frustrated again. Don't be surprised if his thread disappears again when he takes her back.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> Except stop posting because he knows we're getting frustrated again. Don't be surprised if his thread disappears again when he takes her back.


Not sure how to respond to this.


----------



## turnera

Oh, I was talking about Lifescript, not you.


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> Oh, I was talking about Lifescript, not you.


Oh ok....


----------



## Decorum

Thoughts, prayers, and support, mvnfwd, lots of people keeping an eye on your thread to help when needed.
Take care!


----------



## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



Decorum said:


> Thoughts, prayers, and support, mvnfwd, lots of people keeping an eye on your thread to help when needed.
> Take care!


Thanks for that. It means a lot.


----------



## mvnfwd

Nothing to report. Been caught up in the day to day. My focus has been the kids, enjoying my time with them, and work. I have not made a move as of yet.


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## mvnfwd

Downloaded TMMSLP and I'm about one third through it. Some great information.


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## Catherine602

Do what you feel is right for your individual situation. No one can really tell you what that should be. The only thing that can be done is to five advice based on the info you provided. 

D will take energy and conviction. If you don't have those right now then going ahead with the D will add needless stress to your life. There will be a time when you are ready to move. Maybe it's now, maybe not.


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## mvnfwd

So I keep coming back to two main options. I know here the concensus it to expose, file and move forward with my life being one.

Is there any sense offering up one last chance to reconcile or I file ultimatum? 

Am I just delusional? Why is this so stinking hard? I need to get a pair. Lol! I think I'm justifying her behavior a bit because we're "seperated".


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## jim123

mvnfwd said:


> So I keep coming back to two main options. I know here the concensus it to expose, file and move forward with my life being one.
> 
> Is there any sense offering up one last chance to reconcile or I file ultimatum?
> 
> Am I just delusional? Why is this so stinking hard? I need to get a pair. Lol!


It is because you love her. This is not enough. She must love you too and you must love yourself as well.

Fix yourself and you will be fine.


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## turnera

If she can't come to you after what she's done, all you are doing by 'offering' something is begging.


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## WhiteRaven

mvnfwd said:


> So I keep coming back to two main options. I know here the concensus it to expose, file and move forward with my life being one.
> 
> Is there any sense offering up one last chance to reconcile or I file ultimatum?
> 
> Am I just delusional? Why is this so stinking hard? I need to get a pair. Lol! I think I'm justifying her behavior a bit because we're "seperated".


In your case reconciliation=begging.

You love her. Do you trust her?


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## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



WhiteRaven said:


> In your case reconciliation=begging.
> 
> You love her. Do you trust her?


No


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## turnera

Then what would be the point of R?

Other than to keep you from being lonely, that is.


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## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



turnera said:


> Then what would be the point of R?
> 
> Other than to keep you from being lonely, that is.


I guess I'm thinking that reconciliation would include repairing the trust issues as well as any other damage caused. Maybe I have it wrong.


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## turnera

I guess it depends on how you handle it. YOU asking HER to reconcile is a big fail. I have NEVER seen a couple work out when the betrayed asks the wayward to come back. Psychologically speaking, it ruins the marriage. Regarding trust, it must be HER moving mountains to regain your trust.


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## Chaparral

mvnfwd said:


> So I keep coming back to two main options. I know here the concensus it to expose, file and move forward with my life being one.
> 
> Is there any sense offering up one last chance to reconcile or I file ultimatum?
> 
> Am I just delusional? Why is this so stinking hard? I need to get a pair. Lol! I think I'm justifying her behavior a bit because we're "seperated".


I didn't realize the two of you were allowed to date and have sex with other people during the separation, that makes all the difference in the world. How many women have you slept with?


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## Steve1000

mvnfwd said:


> Is there any sense offering up one last chance to reconcile or I file ultimatum?


She already knows that she has a chance to reconcile. She has known this for two years.


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## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



Chaparral said:


> I didn't realize the two of you were allowed to date and have sex with other people during the separation, that makes all the difference in the world. How many women have you slept with?


It was openly communicated that dating etc was not ok during separation....but it sure seems like it's the norm for many in this situation.


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## ThePheonix

mvnfwd said:


> I need to get a pair. Lol! I think I'm justifying her behavior a bit because we're "seperated".
> 
> but it sure seems like it's the norm for many in this situation.





Chaparral said:


> I didn't realize the two of you were allowed to date and have sex with other people during the separation, that makes all the difference in the world. How many women have you slept with?


Why don't we just say her "affair" is ok because it is between to consenting adults. Yes MVN your wife's behavior pretty much is the norm when, as you put it, you need to get a pair of what you admit not having. Personally I think your "file ultimatum" would be next to striking oil as far as she's concerned.


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## honcho

You seem to keep thinking that you haven’t offered reconciliation. You have, you have waited two years for her to work on issues with you. Formally asking her at this point is useless and will be treated by her like a joke. 

Your not filing as an ultimatum. You would file because the situation is not acceptable as a part of YOUR life. Your non action only reinforces in her head what she is doing is acceptable and has no consequences. It is hard, no one here ever said any of this is easy. How have the last two years of your life been like? Have you enjoyed them? 

Once paperwork is filed and the legal process the entire situation takes on a different life. She may be relieved you finally did it and give you an easy divorce. She may finally look at her life and say maybe I made some poor decisions. Maybe she will turn just plain evil. Point being is you cant be concerned about her reaction. That isn’t your problem. Until there is any accountability from both of you. You have basically told her for a long time this is perfectly acceptable and you must be content since you endure this. 

It sucks, its not fun, it will be one the harder things you will ever do and at the end of it and the dust settles you will probably tell yourself it was the best decision you made once you start to get your life back.


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## wranglerman

mvnfwd said:


> It was openly communicated that dating etc was not ok during separation....but it sure seems like it's the norm for many in this situation.


Just because other people do it it does not make it right and is still adultery in the eyes of the courts, you are still legally married.

are you still procrastinating over this?


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## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



wranglerman said:


> Just because other people do it it does not make it right and is still adultery in the eyes of the courts, you are still legally married.
> 
> are you still procrastinating over this?


I agree. 

I'm actually closer than ever to making a move for me instead of always rolling with her punches. This week would be a great time to talk to a paralegal but I'm working and need to put $ together to get started. (How much to start ppwk in California?)

I know it's what I have to do.


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## Chaparral

Check on line and see if you can dowload a divorce packet for your state. If not you can probably pick one up at your county courthouse. Even if you go this route you need to have it looked over by a professional.


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## Decorum

mvnfwd said:


> So I keep coming back to two main options. I know here the concensus it to expose, file and move forward with my life being one.
> 
> Is there any sense offering up one last chance to reconcile or I file ultimatum?
> 
> Am I just delusional? Why is this so stinking hard? I need to get a pair. Lol! I think I'm justifying her behavior a bit because we're "seperated".


MF,

We have seen WW's come back begging for a chance to reconcile, crying, convulsing on the floor, blowing snot bubbles and begging for a second chance.

Reconcilation is what you want not her.

If she wanted you she knows exactly how to come get you.

It is hard to accept. 

I know as much as anything else you do not want to be divorced, I am so sorry you have to face this.

ATM you are seeing her for who she is.

Who knows what the future holds.

Maybe one day she will "Metanoeo"

But I suspect that will require some pain first.

That will only come if she actually wants to be better than she is now.

I wish we could do more for you.

Take care!


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## OnTheRocks

mvnfwd said:


> It was openly communicated that dating etc was not ok during separation....but it sure seems like it's the norm for many in this situation.


It seems like it's the norm because 99% of the time, it is the REASON they want to separate. They want to date both of you for a while, and see who is more appealing.


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## Decorum

OnTheRocks said:


> It seems like it's the norm because 99% of the time, it is the REASON they want to separate. They want to date both of you for a while, and see who is more appealing.


Its hard to hear, that reduces a person to a commodity.


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## Emptyshelldad

turnera said:


> :rofl:
> 
> You can't be serious?!
> 
> Of the top worst people I've known in my 50+ years, _all but ONE_ have been 'avowed Christians'; as my husband (a devout Lutheran) puts it, all Christianity means is that you get to do whatever you want and then ask for forgiveness.


A bit late in my response. But you should take your obvious disdain for Christians to another thread. This forum exists to help the poster, who definitely deserves it in this case, not for you to posts emoji about how hard his feelings make you laugh. 
It saddens me to see someone could be so self absorbed on here. 

News flash tunera.........he came here for our help, not so you would have an opportunity to turn the attention to you and your beliefs. Feel free to start your own thread and discuss how you feel about, but politely realize he came here looking for help, not to be judged. 

People of different fundamental core beliefs should not be together as is is a source of major incompatibility. That is what he meant by marrying a non believer. If you didn't have your sensitivity hackles raised up so high, you might have seen this.


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## turnera

You're right, you're late, and we've already discussed this subject to the OP's satisfaction.


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## Emptyshelldad

turnera said:


> You're right, you're late, and we've already discussed this subject to the OP's satisfaction.


Look as though you are still wearing your sensitive pants. Glad to know you didn't throw them out.  

But I will restrict my comments to what's actually helpful to the op. I invite you to pm me if have anything else, because I want him to be able to get the help he came here for, and not turn this into a tunera vs empty pissing match.


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## mvnfwd

Thanks Empty and Turnera for being so engaged in my personal story it doesn't go unnoticed. 

It confirms the fact that the folks here are absolutely here to help and actually care about the strangers that come looking for strength and encouragement. 

I know it has and will continue to be an extremely important part of life moving forward. 

Thank you!


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## carmen ohio

mvnfwd said:


> I guess I'm thinking that reconciliation would include repairing the trust issues as well as any other damage caused. Maybe I have it wrong.


Dear mvnfwd,

Been following your thread but haven't posted so far because you're getting great advice and I didn't have much to add.

I do want to point out, however, the problem with your statement above. Yes, reconciliation would repair the trust issues and other damage in your marriage. Also, my giving you $1 million would help you get rid of your debts, keep your house, get a new car and take a great vacation. But I'm not going to give you $1 million, even if you ask me nicely, and your WW isn't going to stop cheating you on you simply because you ask her to suggest that the two of you reconcile.

The problem with what you said above is that reflects magical thining: if only the world weren't the way it is, all my problems would be solved. But the world is the way it is and one of the realities is that a broken relationship cannot be repaired unless and until BOTH parties want to repair it.

So if you want to save your marriage, you have to figure out how to get your WW also want to save it. The advice your getting here, with which I agree, is that your best chance of winning her back is if you prove to her that you are prepared to leave. That means letting her know your requirements for giving her a second chance and filing for divorce if she doesn't respond appropriately.

But, even more importantly, it means starting to respect yourself, building a new life without her, doing what is best for you and your kids and leaving her to solve her own problems. When she sees this, maybe she will ask for a second chance but, by then, you may not even want her back.

This should be your goal.


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## mvnfwd

So during kid swap yesterday it was like I finally looked at my wife differently. I saw the person she is now who has lied, schemed, and broken apart the family. I didn't look past those truths like usual. She isn't who I fell in love with anymore. Your realistic advice is sinking in.


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## wranglerman

mvnfwd said:


> So during kid swap yesterday it was like I finally looked at my wife differently. I saw the person she is now who has lied, schemed, and broken apart the family. I didn't look past those truths like usual. She isn't who I fell in love with anymore. Your realistic advice is sinking in.


This is by far the most positive post I have read in a while now!!!

I am sorry that the pedestal is now being eroded away and you are beginning to see her at eye level for who she really has become, I am even more sorry that it has taken you two years of basically being put on hold before you found us and the strength to move on.

Chin up friend.

This is by no means the end of your story but just the beginning of a new chapter


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## WhiteRaven

mvnfwd said:


> So during kid swap yesterday it was like I finally looked at my wife differently. I saw the person she is now who has lied, schemed, and broken apart the family. I didn't look past those truths like usual. She isn't who I fell in love with anymore. Your realistic advice is sinking in.


Your post justifies your username. D her and keep this attitude. God helps those who help themselves. Amen.


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## LongWalk

Post OM on Cheaterville. File for D. 

If your wife looks you in the eye with tears streaming down her cheeks, then and only then can you consider R
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Putting the om on cheaterville will tell you more about your wife than him. For good or bad it will tell you who she is.


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## mvnfwd

So just a little progress report. Too much going on to get to a paralegal, but she's surely getting a taste of what it's gonna be like without me. With my full pull back on communication other than the kids, she's reaching out more than ever.

Asking how my day was, opening up big time trying to stay connected, and basically trying to stay all up in my business. I have to admit it feels extremely good to be in control for once!


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## WhiteRaven

mvnfwd said:


> So just a little progress report. Too much going on to get to a paralegal, but she's surely getting a taste of what it's gonna be like without me. With my full pull back on communication other than the kids, she's reaching out more than ever.
> 
> Asking how my day was, opening up big time trying to stay connected, and basically trying to stay all up in my business. I have to admit it feels extremely good to be in control for once!


Don't bother engaging her in any communication other than that about kids. Treat her like she doesn't exist in your world. When you needed her, she shunned you. Remember that. You are not her lapdog to jump up and down at her beck and call.


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## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



WhiteRaven said:


> Don't bother engaging her in any communication other than that about kids. Treat her like she doesn't exist in your world. When you needed her, she shunned you. Remember that. You are not her lapdog to jump up and down at her beck and call.


I agree 100%. Her efforts aren't changing my direction at all. You're right I gave her two years to make it right and like you said I was shunned.


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## Dyokemm

mvnfwd,

I'm sorry if I've missed it in your updates.

Have you confronted her yet on the cheating with this POS?

Is she aware your M, her security blanket, is about to be ripped from her grasp?


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## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> Putting the om on cheaterville will tell you more about your wife than him. For good or bad it will tell you who she is.


How do people find out that they've been posted on cheaterville? How does it work?


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## 3putt

SF-FAN said:


> How do people find out that they've been posted on cheaterville? How does it work?


CV has an anonymous email function that you can use to forward the post to anyone. Personally, I would make sure everyone knew it was from me, but to each his own.


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## mvnfwd

*Re: Re: I'm at a loss on my next move....*



Dyokemm said:


> mvnfwd,
> 
> I'm sorry if I've missed it in your updates.
> 
> Have you confronted her yet on the cheating with this POS?
> 
> Is she aware your M, her security blanket, is about to be ripped from her grasp?


Haven't confronted her yet...and I haven't declared anything, figure I'll let my actions (non-actions) speak louder than words. Mostly staying focused on the fact I got off the emotional roller coaster.


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## tom67

mvnfwd said:


> Haven't confronted her yet...and I haven't declared anything, figure I'll let my actions (non-actions) speak louder than words. Mostly staying focused on the fact I got off the emotional roller coaster.


You should tell her to have fun with so and so on your vacation.
That should sour the mood at least for the day.
Then smile and walk away.


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## Nucking Futs

mvnfwd said:


> Haven't confronted her yet...and I haven't declared anything, figure I'll let my actions (non-actions) speak louder than words. Mostly staying focused on the fact I got off the emotional roller coaster.


She'll figure it out when she gets served. :smthumbup:


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Wouldn't it be great if you could have her served WHILE she was "on vacation". AND have the person who serves wearing a hidden cam...

THAT would be a great picture for the ol' scrap book.


----------

