# One year later and weighing the idea of exposing wife's cheating to her job



## popa

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to get as many details as possible in here so I can get good advice. I got married in 2005 to my wife and we have 2 sons together. I found out a little over a year ago that my wife was cheating on me with her boss. This was a job that she had for 6 years already. I had no evidence that it was physical but there were hundreds of texts sent between them each day while she was at work. The texts would be deleted by her almost immediately and I only knew about them because of our phone records. Her call logs would also be mysteriously deleted everyday. I confronted her with the texts and she cried and got on her knees begging me for another chance. I truly thought she was sincere so I believed her. She said she was only talking to him for attention and that the relationship never went physical. She texted him that they need to stop talking and he text her back and said ok. She showed me those texts so I truly thought it was over. A couple weeks later, I was checking her laptop and I discovered that all she did was stop texting him and started to email him using her work email to contact him. I could not read the actual emails since I didn't know the password but by looking through the history, I was able to see some of the titles to the emails. I did some more snooping and using find my iphone, I tracked her down during her lunch break and she was sitting in his car giving him what looked like oral sex. I say oral sex because I was about 50 feet away and she came up, saw me, and got out the car. He tried getting away but I tracked him down. I almost killed him that day and it was none other than the good Lord that restrained me from doing that. After that, I moved out briefly, moved back in, told her I wasn't happy and that we should get a divorce. I also was able to track down his wife via Facebook and I told her everything that went down. I figured that she should know what kind of man she was married to and how we contributed to destroying my life. As far as my wife, Originally, she seemed somewhat remorseful and she admitted that they kissed but it never went further. She also tried to protect him as much as possible and say that it was her that did everything. I tried my best to work on the marriage after this but it was hard since she thought I should get over it easily and stop bringing it up. Eventually, she changed her story and said that she only said that they kissed because she wanted me to come back home for the kids. She said that there was no relationship at all and they were only have lunch. She called me jealous and accused me of spying on her. We tried going to counseling but I feel that it made the situation worse since the counselor was on her side and said I should believe that nothing happened if I truly want to move on. I know what I saw and I have all the text messages. She said that I didn't know what a good woman I had so she decided to move out right after Christmas to "Teach me a lesson". I was so angry and disgusted that I immediately filed for divorce. It totally ripped me apart because I never thought I would have to go through something like this but yet, here I am.

The deal was that I would get the house and she would get the kids. I had already been threatening to file for divorce months prior but she knew I was bluffing. When I had her served the papers at work, she saw that it was real. I've been trying to divorce her since April since that is when the waiting period was over but she refused to sign the paperwork. She agreed to everything but kept making excuses about signing it. Later on, I found out through some mutual friends that she didn't want a divorce at all and she was just waiting for me to cool off so I could ask her to move back in and try to start over. Anyway, the court scheduled a trial on merits back in July and I showed up with a lawyer I hired at the last minute just in case something went wrong. My ex did not show up so we thought the divorce would be easy. The problem was that the court sent the trial date summons to her job and not to her home of record. I knew for sure that my ex knew the court date because we discussed that but the judge said that she can't grant the divorce unless the paper is sent to her home since they have to be sure that she received it. Because of that, I'm still married and the next court date will be in September.

The past year has been a ride from hell. I have plenty of sleepless nights and I go through bouts of anger. Sometimes I wish I could go back to that day and knock his teeth out when I had the chance. Also, my ex has been telling everyone that I filed for divorce because I came to her job and saw her having lunch with her boss. It pisses me off because some people actually believe her! What kind of dead beat ******* would I be to throw away 10 years of marriage with 2 kids because I saw my wife have lunch with her boss? That would make me an idiot and appear as a very jealous person. Her lies are literally ruining my reputation. I know I shouldn't care what other people think but I wonder about my children. The oldest is 7 and I'm sure that one day, he will learn to believe this lie. Anyway, she retained a lawyer since the last court date and her lawyer has contacted my lawyer. Not only is my ex asking for an insane amount of child support (roughly 70% of my income) she also wants alimony. She told her lawyer the same lie about having lunch and my lawyer said that it isn't true. Her lawyer asked for proof of her cheating and my lawyer said that we will provide it. I told my lawyer that I can get the phone records from T-mobile but I can't get the actual transcripts without a court order. I also can't access the emails from her job but I'm willing to bet that they are stored on a server there since this is a very huge and well known organization. I'm sure we could probably get those with a court order too. My ex caught wind of all of this and called me telling my not to tell her job because she will lose her job. She said that she would sign the divorce paper at any time but that I should leave her job out of it. I told her that if she was only having lunch, she would have quite a lawsuit against the company if they fired her for that. My lawyer has told me that evidence of her cheating could tip things in my favor as far as the division of property.

All of this has opened my eyes to the fact that my children don't belong with her. I won't go into details since this is already long enough but for many reasons, my sons are better of living with me. One detail that I will add is that my ex isn't natively from this country. She sent our youngest (3) with his grandmother to their home country for "vacation" and after a while of them being there, she told me that she will keep him there until he is 5. I had to take time off to buy a ticket and without telling her, I flew over there to get him back in May. I came back with him and his passport is in my possession. She has threatened and harassed me about the passport but I told her she will get it over my dead body. She also has my oldest son's passport but I don't think she will send him away since he is currently already in school. I can't be sure about that but in short, this incident along with several others have prompted me to change my mind and go for custody of both my sons.


This leads to my question. Should I contact her job about this? My mom says that I'm an idiot for not telling them what happened as soon as it went down. I will admit that I've always been the one to avoid confrontation but this whole episode has pushed me over the edge. I still have trouble sleeping when I think about the fact that they are still working there and they are directly manager and subordinate. I doubt the relationship is still going on since I told his wife and he also has 2 kids to lose. I don't think he would risk that by continuing to be with my ex. Still, I've been thinking about writing a letter to their HR, EO, and president about what happened. I would also attach the phone records showing all of the text messages. Would I be doing this for revenge? Maybe so since I really do hate both of them. On the flip side, I don't know if I could legally get in trouble for doing this. Also, the timing is sensitive now since I will be going for custody. Chances are that if I email this to enough people there, she will lose her job. Maybe if that happens and she is awarded custody, I may have to pay more alimony since she isn't working. She has no college education and this job is hard to come by so she will be in a bad position if she loses it. Still, I don't know if writing them a letter will make me feel any better about this situation or if it will harm me further down the line. I'm also wondering what exactly it would accomplish. I only ask this here since I've read tons and tons of advice that I'm thankful for. I'm just kind of stuck now and don't know exactly how or if I should move forward with this. Thanks to anyone who can help.


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## Roselyn

You are already represented by a divorce attorney. Follow his or her advice. Definitely, go for full custody. As she is not from this country, make sure that she does not send any of your sons to visit outside the country. Make sure that this is a condition of your divorce as well. They may never return back to you. Sorry, you are in this place. Your wife is a cheater and a shrew.


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## toonaive

Roselyn said:


> You are already represented by a divorce attorney. Follow his or his advice. Definitely, go for full custody. As she is not from this country, make sure that she does not send any of your sons to visit outside the country. Make sure that this is a condition of your divorce as well. They may never return back to you. Sorry, you are in this place. Your wife is a cheater and a shrew.
> 
> This!


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## dubsey

get the passport for the older child, and put them both in a safe deposit box.


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## GusPolinski

Haven't yet read the initial post in its entirety, but your wife needs to quit her job. That should've been the absolute first thing in your list of demands w/ respect to reconciliation.

It's nothing short of completely ludicrous to agree (even if only tacitly so) to her continuing to work alongside the POS that she'd been f*cking for however long. I'd insist that she quit. If she refuses, expose. And that's assuming that you want to continue in marriage w/ her. If you don't, divorce... and then expose. 

Also, if OM is married, the affair should be exposed to his wife.


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## WorkingOnMe

Wow the naïveté is strong with this one. Anyway, you should send a subpoena to the company for the emails. Depending on the state you may also have a case against the company.


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## popa

GusPolinski said:


> Haven't yet read the initial post in its entirety, but your wife needs to quit her job. That should've been the absolute first thing in your list of demands w/ respect to reconciliation.
> 
> It's nothing short of completely ludicrous to agree (even if only tacitly so) to her continuing to work alongside the POS that she'd been f*cking for however long. I'd insist that she quit. If she refuses, expose. And that's assuming that you want to continue in marriage w/ her. If you don't, divorce... and then expose.
> 
> Also, if OM is married, the affair should be exposed to his wife.


I know I should have suggested she quit but I didn't. I figured that since I already threatened him and told his wife, I wouldn't have to worry about the affair going forward. I see now it was stupid but it doesn't matter anymore since we are divorcing.


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## EleGirl

As others have said, do what your lawyer says to do. Do not go off on your own and do things that could grossly, negatively ruin your case.

Telling her employer will most likely get her fired. That means that you will get slapped with alimony to support her until she gets a job. Do you really want to end up with months, if not years, of high alimony payments?

What good would telling her employer do? You are not interested in reconciliation. At this point all you seem to want is revenge. Beating the guy up as revenge. Now you want her to be unemployed. You were lucky that you were not charged for beating the guy up. You might not get luck if you get her fired. You need to do only that which protects you and your children.

If you don't mind sharing, what state do you live in? In most states, infidelity does not matter in a divorce. So you would be really shooting yourself in the foot if you expose her and get her fired.

I doubt that doing this would make you feel better.


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## popa

EleGirl said:


> As others have said, do what your lawyer says to do. Do not go off on your own and do things that could grossly, negatively ruin your case.
> 
> Telling her employer will most likely get her fired. That means that you will get slapped with alimony to support her until she gets a job. Do you really want to end up with months, if not years, of high alimony payments?
> 
> What good would telling her employer do? You are not interested in reconciliation. At this point all you seem to want is revenge. Beating the guy up as revenge. Now you want her to be unemployed. You were lucky that you were not charged for beating the guy up. You might not get luck if you get her fired. You need to do only that which protects you and your children.
> 
> If you don't mind sharing, what state do you live in? In most states, infidelity does not matter in a divorce. So you would be really shooting yourself in the foot if you expose her and get her fired.
> 
> I doubt that doing this would make you feel better.


I haven't discussed this with my lawyer because I wanted to ask here first. I know I'm lucky for not being charged before but I believe that's because he didn't want to lose his job or have the affair exposed. If he had pressed charges, it would have led to other questions and their affair would have been revealed. Yes, I do admit that I'm still upset and I wouldn't mind both of them become unemployed. So yes, maybe it is revenge. However, my ex's position there is very low and he is the manager over the entire department. I figure that I could also be saving someone else's marriage by exposing this. Also, I know firsthand that workplace fraternization is frowned upon because it promotes favoritism and unfair evaluations. I am also sure that the workplace email system was used to communicate about the affair. I feel like I'm doing an disservice by continuing to sit on my hands but yes, I will say that revenge is part of it. Also. I'm in Texas if that makes any difference.


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## brooklynAnn

No don't do it. Makes you seem vindictive. 

What you should do is to get your lawyer to obtain a court order for all the text and emails. That is where all your ammos lay. Then, you have have your bomb to drop on her. 

Once, the divorce is final and the custody and support is handled. Then, you send a copy of all the info. to HR.

You don't want a wife with no job. Still have to think of the financial implications of your actions. Because they will affect you.


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## WorkingOnMe

Isn't alimony almost impossible in Texas?


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## P51Geo1980

GusPolinski said:


> Haven't yet read the initial post in its entirety, but your wife needs to quit her job. That should've been the absolute first thing in your list of demands w/ respect to reconciliation.
> 
> It's nothing short of completely ludicrous to agree (even if only tacitly so) to her continuing to work alongside the POS that she'd been f*cking for however long. I'd insist that she quit. If she refuses, expose. And that's assuming that you want to continue in marriage w/ her. If you don't, divorce... and then expose.
> 
> Also, if OM is married, the affair should be exposed to his wife.


Maybe read the post before responding oh valiant keyboard warrior!

He's divorcing his wife and not reconciling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

OK, all caught up...

Her fear of workplace exposure tells you everything that you need to know about what may happen should you do that.

Don't expose to the job. That's a bridge that you can't unburn. Tell your STBX that you're not willing to pay alimony and that you want both of your sons' passports as well as primary custody. Tell her that you won't do anything to keep them from her, but they won't be leaving the country w/o you, at least not before they're 18. EVER. Additionally, tell her that failure to meet these demands will result in a workplace exposure, as well as court orders for e-mails. Oh, and that you'll be sending any and all evidence that you gather to OMW so that she can use it in her divorce as well.


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## GusPolinski

P51Geo1980 said:


> Maybe read the post before responding oh valiant keyboard warrior!
> 
> He's divorcing his wife and not reconciling.


No worries, all caught up now. And hey, at least I copped to not having read the entire thing.

Anyway, you can put away your butthurt now.


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## 6301

I wouldn't worry about the lies she's spreading because sooner or later it all comes out and whoever she told will know that she wasn't honest about it. I know this because I went through it.

As far as anything else, you hired a lawyer. You paid him hard earned dollars so listen to what he/she says and don't go off the deep end. It will only get worse if you do. Be a good parent to your kids. Sooner or later they'll see for themselves but that doesn't mean to bad mouth their mother in front of them.


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## popa

GusPolinski said:


> OK, all caught up...
> 
> Her fear of workplace exposure tells you everything that you need to know about what may happen should you do that.
> 
> Don't expose to the job. That's a bridge that you can't unburn. Tell your STBX that you're not willing to pay alimony and that you want both of your sons' passports as well as primary custody. Tell her that you won't do anything to keep them from her, but they won't be leaving the country w/o you, at least not before they're 18. EVER. Additionally, tell her that failure to meet these demands will result in a workplace exposure, as well as court orders for e-mails. Oh, and that you'll be sending any and all evidence that you gather to OMW so that she can use it in her divorce as well.


Thanks for the advice. As far as the emails, I'm 100% positive that there is something damning there. I recall one time during our so called reconciliation when I brought her laptop in the kitchen and demanded for her to log in so I could see her emails. Ironically, she forgot the password at that very moment and couldn't log in. I walked in the other room disgusted and 5 minutes later, she came in and told me she remembered the password and I could see her inbox. Not only was every single email deleted, but she stood over shoulder to see where I was clicking. I didn't bother wasting my time checking at that point but it told me everything that I needed to know about their relationship. Anyway, I'm all for telling her to give me custody of my son's but wouldn't that be considered extortion. I feel like I have a decent chance to win custody but if this would work, it would save me a lot of time and money.


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## GusPolinski

popa said:


> Thanks for the advice. As far as the emails, I'm 100% positive that there is something damning there. I recall one time during our so called reconciliation when I brought her laptop in the kitchen and demanded for her to log in so I could see her emails. Ironically, she forgot the password at that very moment and couldn't log in. I walked in the other room disgusted and 5 minutes later, she came in and told me she remembered the password and I could see her inbox. Not only was every single email deleted, but she stood over shoulder to see where I was clicking. I didn't bother wasting my time checking at that point but it told me everything that I needed to know about their relationship. *Anyway, I'm all for telling her to give me custody of my son's but wouldn't that be considered extortion*. I feel like I have a decent chance to win custody but if this would work, it would save me a lot of time and money.


Who cares?!? Dude, you've got a couple of trump cards here, and you'd be a fool to not use them.

Tell you what... talk w/ your attorney about it.


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## naiveonedave

popa said:


> Anyway, I'm all for telling her to give me custody of my son's but wouldn't that be considered extortion. I feel like I have a decent chance to win custody but if this would work, it would save me a lot of time and money.


D is war, not some fancy dance. If you are not careful, you will lose your access to your sons.....

She needs to face some consequences for her actions, I for one, would do whatever I could to make her feel some pain in this.


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## bigfoot

Here's the best advice you are going to get on how to play your cards: Make sure that you have hired the best lawyer that you can afford, tell them what you want, tell them what you have, ask them what it takes to get you what you want and then listen.

In short, let your lawyer guide you to the destination that you want. The lawyer will figure out how to do it. It really is that easy. There is no such thing as extortion if your lawyer is doing it in court or through negotiation with her lawyer. That's called litigation. If YOU start making threats to do xyz if she does not give you what you want, well then you are going to ruin things.

Texas version: Your lawyer is your linebacker. You want the ball. Tell him to go get you the ball. Wait for the ball.


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## Rookie4

Ok, OP, you need to follow the advice of your attorney, and don't do anything on your own cuff. 
The thing is, you really can't PROVE anything. Sure you have some conversations and the like, but basically what you have is a "he said, she said" situation. Your threat to nark her out at work is just about all of the leverage you have got. The only reason she is cooperating is because of it. If you use it, then you lose it. Keep the threat as a last resort.


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## OldWolf57

Negotiations !!! Not threats !!
You have the best hand, tell your lawyer to play it. He works for you.
Gus and Bigfoot got it right, so talk to the lawyer.

On another note, filing for the emails will alert the higher ups, so don't do that.
HR will alert the CEO and run it by their legal dept, which will prompt them to investigate.

Play mean, but play smart.

And not said before, but sorry you have to deal with this.


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## Rookie4

OldWolf57 said:


> Negotiations !!! Not threats !!
> You have the best hand, tell your lawyer to play it. He works for you.
> Gus and Bigfoot got it right, so talk to the lawyer.
> 
> On another note, filing for the emails will alert the higher ups, so don't do that.
> HR will alert the CEO and run it by their legal dept, which will prompt them to investigate.
> 
> Play mean, but play smart.
> 
> And not said before, but sorry you have to deal with this.


I said" the threat" I didn't say MAKE a threat. Big difference.


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## OldWolf57

Sorry Rookie, but I wasn't even thinking of what you said. I was thinking of what he said.


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## BetrayedDad

brooklynAnn said:


> Once, the divorce is final and the custody and support is handled. Then, you send a copy of all the info. to HR.
> 
> You don't want a wife with no job.


THIS OP!

Once everything is final in the divorce THEN do a full work exposure.

Sorry you're here.... My wh0re of an ex also had an affair with her boss.


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## happyman64

Wow Popa

You married a real winner.

Is she Scandinavian by chance?

Anyway you received good advice.

Use your attorney to get you what you want. Hold the A over your wifes head.

Let us know how you make out.

You should have walked out the door with your wifes laptop. Then changed the password and copied the deleted files.

Ow well live and learn.

HM


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## MattMatt

And get your lawyers to have your children on a no fly list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sports Fan

popa said:


> Sorry this is so long but I wanted to get as many details as possible in here so I can get good advice. I got married in 2005 to my wife and we have 2 sons together. I found out a little over a year ago that my wife was cheating on me with her boss. This was a job that she had for 6 years already. I had no evidence that it was physical but there were hundreds of texts sent between them each day while she was at work. The texts would be deleted by her almost immediately and I only knew about them because of our phone records. Her call logs would also be mysteriously deleted everyday. I confronted her with the texts and she cried and got on her knees begging me for another chance. I truly thought she was sincere so I believed her. She said she was only talking to him for attention and that the relationship never went physical. She texted him that they need to stop talking and he text her back and said ok. She showed me those texts so I truly thought it was over. A couple weeks later, I was checking her laptop and I discovered that all she did was stop texting him and started to email him using her work email to contact him. I could not read the actual emails since I didn't know the password but by looking through the history, I was able to see some of the titles to the emails. I did some more snooping and using find my iphone, I tracked her down during her lunch break and she was sitting in his car giving him what looked like oral sex. I say oral sex because I was about 50 feet away and she came up, saw me, and got out the car. He tried getting away but I tracked him down. I almost killed him that day and it was none other than the good Lord that restrained me from doing that. After that, I moved out briefly, moved back in, told her I wasn't happy and that we should get a divorce. I also was able to track down his wife via Facebook and I told her everything that went down. I figured that she should know what kind of man she was married to and how we contributed to destroying my life. As far as my wife, Originally, she seemed somewhat remorseful and she admitted that they kissed but it never went further. She also tried to protect him as much as possible and say that it was her that did everything. I tried my best to work on the marriage after this but it was hard since she thought I should get over it easily and stop bringing it up. Eventually, she changed her story and said that she only said that they kissed because she wanted me to come back home for the kids. She said that there was no relationship at all and they were only have lunch. She called me jealous and accused me of spying on her. We tried going to counseling but I feel that it made the situation worse since the counselor was on her side and said I should believe that nothing happened if I truly want to move on. I know what I saw and I have all the text messages. She said that I didn't know what a good woman I had so she decided to move out right after Christmas to "Teach me a lesson". I was so angry and disgusted that I immediately filed for divorce. It totally ripped me apart because I never thought I would have to go through something like this but yet, here I am.
> 
> The deal was that I would get the house and she would get the kids. I had already been threatening to file for divorce months prior but she knew I was bluffing. When I had her served the papers at work, she saw that it was real. I've been trying to divorce her since April since that is when the waiting period was over but she refused to sign the paperwork. She agreed to everything but kept making excuses about signing it. Later on, I found out through some mutual friends that she didn't want a divorce at all and she was just waiting for me to cool off so I could ask her to move back in and try to start over. Anyway, the court scheduled a trial on merits back in July and I showed up with a lawyer I hired at the last minute just in case something went wrong. My ex did not show up so we thought the divorce would be easy. The problem was that the court sent the trial date summons to her job and not to her home of record. I knew for sure that my ex knew the court date because we discussed that but the judge said that she can't grant the divorce unless the paper is sent to her home since they have to be sure that she received it. Because of that, I'm still married and the next court date will be in September.
> 
> The past year has been a ride from hell. I have plenty of sleepless nights and I go through bouts of anger. Sometimes I wish I could go back to that day and knock his teeth out when I had the chance. Also, my ex has been telling everyone that I filed for divorce because I came to her job and saw her having lunch with her boss. It pisses me off because some people actually believe her! What kind of dead beat ******* would I be to throw away 10 years of marriage with 2 kids because I saw my wife have lunch with her boss? That would make me an idiot and appear as a very jealous person. Her lies are literally ruining my reputation. I know I shouldn't care what other people think but I wonder about my children. The oldest is 7 and I'm sure that one day, he will learn to believe this lie. Anyway, she retained a lawyer since the last court date and her lawyer has contacted my lawyer. Not only is my ex asking for an insane amount of child support (roughly 70% of my income) she also wants alimony. She told her lawyer the same lie about having lunch and my lawyer said that it isn't true. Her lawyer asked for proof of her cheating and my lawyer said that we will provide it. I told my lawyer that I can get the phone records from T-mobile but I can't get the actual transcripts without a court order. I also can't access the emails from her job but I'm willing to bet that they are stored on a server there since this is a very huge and well known organization. I'm sure we could probably get those with a court order too. My ex caught wind of all of this and called me telling my not to tell her job because she will lose her job. She said that she would sign the divorce paper at any time but that I should leave her job out of it. I told her that if she was only having lunch, she would have quite a lawsuit against the company if they fired her for that. My lawyer has told me that evidence of her cheating could tip things in my favor as far as the division of property.
> 
> All of this has opened my eyes to the fact that my children don't belong with her. I won't go into details since this is already long enough but for many reasons, my sons are better of living with me. One detail that I will add is that my ex isn't natively from this country. She sent our youngest (3) with his grandmother to their home country for "vacation" and after a while of them being there, she told me that she will keep him there until he is 5. I had to take time off to buy a ticket and without telling her, I flew over there to get him back in May. I came back with him and his passport is in my possession. She has threatened and harassed me about the passport but I told her she will get it over my dead body. She also has my oldest son's passport but I don't think she will send him away since he is currently already in school. I can't be sure about that but in short, this incident along with several others have prompted me to change my mind and go for custody of both my sons.
> 
> 
> This leads to my question. Should I contact her job about this? My mom says that I'm an idiot for not telling them what happened as soon as it went down. I will admit that I've always been the one to avoid confrontation but this whole episode has pushed me over the edge. I still have trouble sleeping when I think about the fact that they are still working there and they are directly manager and subordinate. I doubt the relationship is still going on since I told his wife and he also has 2 kids to lose. I don't think he would risk that by continuing to be with my ex. Still, I've been thinking about writing a letter to their HR, EO, and president about what happened. I would also attach the phone records showing all of the text messages. Would I be doing this for revenge? Maybe so since I really do hate both of them. On the flip side, I don't know if I could legally get in trouble for doing this. Also, the timing is sensitive now since I will be going for custody. Chances are that if I email this to enough people there, she will lose her job. Maybe if that happens and she is awarded custody, I may have to pay more alimony since she isn't working. She has no college education and this job is hard to come by so she will be in a bad position if she loses it. Still, I don't know if writing them a letter will make me feel any better about this situation or if it will harm me further down the line. I'm also wondering what exactly it would accomplish. I only ask this here since I've read tons and tons of advice that I'm thankful for. I'm just kind of stuck now and don't know exactly how or if I should move forward with this. Thanks to anyone who can help.


Contact her job like it was yesterday. Smoke her ass out of the water. 

Do not trust this woman or anything she promises. You have been hurt enough.

As for the friends send them all a brief email/phone message stating this.

I am sure by now you have all heard that me and my wife are seperating. 

It has come to my attention that unfortunately the real reason for the seperation is not being told. I would like to clarify I am not divorcing my wife becuase i caught her having lunch with her boss as she claims.

I am divorcing her becuase i caught her having oral sex in his car, and have the phone transcripts to hundreds of texts and phone calls between them.

I now ask that you all kindly respect our privacy and allow us to sort this matter through the appropriate legal channels.

Thanks (Add your name)


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## MJJEAN

If the lawyer says that subpoenaing the emails for proof of infidelity will tip the asset and custody settlement in your favor, go for it.

I am not sure about the laws in TX, but I know that here if a parent can present a reasonable case for the other parent being a "flight risk", the court will take that into consideration when assigning parenting time. And the court will also order the children cannot be moved within state or taken out of state without the permission of the court. 

Additionally, yes, get the kids names placed on the no fly list. Parental kidnapping to country of origin does happen. There are somewhere around 2-3 thousand kids taken out of the country against court orders by one of their parents every year. The State Department can in all reality do very little to recover those children. You need to do everything you can to prevent your ex from ever having a chance to take the kids out of the country.


----------



## Rookie4

BetrayedDad said:


> THIS OP!
> 
> Once everything is final in the divorce THEN do a full work exposure.
> 
> Sorry you're here.... My wh0re of an ex also had an affair with her boss.


Why? If you have already divorced, and have the custody arrangement in place, what business of yours is it to nark out your ex wife and her boss.? Revenge? 
Exposure, is primarily used as a method of ending the affair. Exposure after the divorce is worthless.


----------



## Rookie4

Sports Fan said:


> Contact her job like it was yesterday. Smoke her ass out of the water.
> 
> Do not trust this woman or anything she promises. You have been hurt enough.
> 
> As for the friends send them all a brief email/phone message stating this.
> 
> I am sure by now you have all heard that me and my wife are seperating.
> 
> It has come to my attention that unfortunately the real reason for the seperation is not being told. I would like to clarify I am not divorcing my wife becuase i caught her having lunch with her boss as she claims.
> 
> I am divorcing her becuase i caught her having oral sex in his car, and have the phone transcripts to hundreds of texts and phone calls between them.
> 
> I now ask that you all kindly respect our privacy and allow us to sort this matter through the appropriate legal channels.
> 
> Thanks (Add your name)


OP, if you want to save yourself a lot of grief and trouble, and you want to save your kids a lot of problems, DON'T DO ANY OF THIS!!! Remember, if you are going to divorce, YOU STILL NEED HER COOPERATION, for financial and custody reasons.. If you go blowing up everything, get her fired and her boss into hot water, how cooperative do you think she is going to want to be?
Do what your attorney says, do NOTHING out of pride and anger. AFTER the divorce is final, THEN is the time to go to friends and family and explain the situation.


----------



## weightlifter

MANY judges are rote robots who read the formula and award per the formula. She could ask for 10K a month, that does not mean she will get it. Ask your lawyer if this is the case. Lawyers love to bluff.

Dont get her fired. You might do your own bluff and sue the company subpoena all her emails and texts. Ask your lawyer. Taking the OM down a peg or three can be a lot of fun. Much more fun than getting your ex fired.


----------



## Rookie4

I have said this before, but it bears repeating.
You and your lawyer are a team. The purpose of the team is to win the divorce. You win, if you get the financial and custody and property arrangements to suit you , and your kids. To do this, you must be smart and in control of yourself, and do NOTHING off the cuff.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Rookie4 said:


> Why? If you have already divorced, and have the custody arrangement in place, what business of yours is it to nark out your ex wife and her boss.? Revenge?
> Exposure, is primarily used as a method of ending the affair. Exposure after the divorce is worthless.


So you command respect and she thinks twice about fvcking with you again. Someone wrongs you and you let it slide they will continue to wrong you. Why not? They'll think your a pvssy who won't do anything about it and they would be right. You think you're done with an ex once you sign the papers if you have kids? She will use them as a pawn to d!ck with you as long as she can. Trust me. In their mind, "It's your fault they cheated and you're supposed to take them back". So they will try to teach you a lesson. You break them in half from the get go and make it clear that they reaped what they sowed and they are far more likely to leave you the hell alone.


----------



## Rookie4

BetrayedDad said:


> So you command respect and she thinks twice about fvcking with you again. Someone wrongs you and you let it slide they will continue to wrong you. Why not? They'll think your a pvssy who won't do anything about it and they would be right. You think you're done with an ex once you sign the papers if you have kids? She will use them as a pawn to d!ck with you as long as she can. Trust me. In their mind, "It's your fault they cheated and you're supposed to take them back". So they will try to teach you a lesson. You break them in half from the get go and make it clear that they reaped what they sowed and they are far more likely to leave you the hell alone.


 Are you kidding me? You don't command respect, You EARN it. By being open, honest, straightforward and smart. Your idea is all about machismo and nothing about respect. You think that if you f*ck over your ex wife and caused her to lose her job, that will make her want to obey you? You can't be that ignorant. If she respected you, then she wouldn't have cheated in the first place.
You have kids together, you will be needing her cooperation for YEARS, maybe forever. You actually think that if you do her dirt, she will want to? If this is the way you think, I guarantee that you will have troubles all of the time, and your kids will suffer. Remember, she isn't your wife any more, and you cannot MAKE her do anything she doesn't want to do.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Rookie4 said:


> Are you kidding me? You don't command respect, You EARN it. By being open, honest, straightforward and smart.


LOL, tried that. All it got me was cheated on. You have to deal with people ON THEIR LEVEL. You're right to a point. Good people deserve to be treated nicely however...

If you treat a POS nicely, it's seen as a sign of weakness. When you teach a POS there are repercussions to stabbing you in the back, they learn quick to not do it again because they are cowards. 

Look you think they are stupid? THEY KNOW they "did you dirt" first. They EXPECT fall out, they don't understand why you wouldn't. Not giving them what they earned will guarantee you doormat status in their eyes.

You blow them up after the ink is dry folks. Don't believe this pie in the sky sh!t about openiness and honesty with a dirtbag cheater. You tell them whatever they want to hear to get the divorce final then you hit the shiny red button. Sure they will pretend to be mad.... secretly they respect you for it.


----------



## Dyokemm

BetrayedDad said:


> So you command respect and she thinks twice about fvcking with you again. Someone wrongs you and you let it slide they will continue to wrong you.


I agree 100%.

It is almost a universal truth that people who will not stand up for themselves will continue to be injured and taken advantage of by their abusers.


----------



## Dyokemm

Rookie,

I see your point.....maybe a better way of saying what BetrayedDad is communicating is to use another word rather than respect, since that word can have different meanings.

A better way of putting it is that people should FEAR screwing with you because they know what will be coming back their way will be bad.

Reminds me of my Machiavelli (lol, and no, I don't mean our former comrade here on TAM but rather the real writer).....he said it is better to be feared than loved, if a person was forced to choose between the two options.


----------



## Rookie4

OK, we've heard from the internet Rambos enough. Let's get back to the real, adult , world.
OP, contrary to the machismo, you should ONLY do what is in your best interest to do. Wlil narking her out do this? No, it will create even more bad feeling, and will make the divorce much more difficult and expensive. You must always remember that the way you treat your EX wife will have a profound effect on your future relationship with her, and will effect you kids welfare. 
Once the divorce is final, she doesn't HAVE to listen to a word you say, and you cannot FORCE her to do anything. In short, you have zero leverage, so you need to act NOW to prepare yourself and to make sure that your interests (and your kids) are taken care of, plus you need to have as good a relationship as possible with your ex wife, so that in the future, you and her can co-parent your kids in an effective and adult manner. In order for this to happen, your ex wife must have a job, or you will probably have to foot the bill for much more than you should. This is what I mean by being smart. Even Machiavelli didn't believe in shooting himself in the foot.
Always remember, you don't HAVE to like your ex wife, but you DO have to interact with her.


----------



## Chaparral

Ive read thousands of threads here and there hasnt been one example of a cheating spouse getting more alimony because they got fired or quit a job.

A good attorney would sup eona thee emails and phone records first thing. Go to dadsdivorce.com for more info.


----------



## Tobin

BetrayedDad said:


> So you command respect and she thinks twice about fvcking with you again. Someone wrongs you and you let it slide they will continue to wrong you. Why not? They'll think your a pvssy who won't do anything about it and they would be right. You think you're done with an ex once you sign the papers if you have kids?


He won't gain her respect by ratting her out to her job, it will just piss her off and it will make it clear to anyone involved that he's just bitter and acting out of malice and unresolved feelings for her.

It will make coparenting much more difficult, if not impossible. 

She obviously doesn't respect him, but she never will regardless of what he might or might not do going forward. He can't make things much better but he can make them indescribably worse, and getting her fired will do that for sure.


----------



## Dyokemm

Chap,

Neither have I.....in cases where a spouse gets fired due to an A, they use the wages they were earning at the time as a baseline for their earning potential and calculate child support and alimony off of that....the court considers that they have demonstrated they can earn that much, even if they are currently unemployed.

And Rookie....lmao...throw out insults and demeaning statements all you want......still doesn't refute the fact that most people who passively accept others abusive and injurious acts simply encourage more outrageous behavior from these people in the future.

That's a lesson I learned in elementary school the first time I had to deal with a bully.....one time smacking him in the jaw (and yeah it ended up with both of us bloodied and bruised) was enough of a message....he never screwed with me again.

Plenty of other kids who just cowered and took it...he spent his time picking on them instead of someone who was going to fight back.

But anyway, I am referring in my posts to a general principle in life, Rookie.....in OP's case, I actually agree with you that once the D is final, it becomes superfluous.... the time to do this was right after he discovered the A......that was the best time to teach the POS a severe lesson that there are consequences to be paid for screwing with other people's families and lives.


----------



## carmen ohio

Chaparral said:


> Ive read thousands of threads here and there hasnt been one example of a cheating spouse getting more alimony because they got fired or quit a job.
> 
> A good attorney would sup eona thee emails and phone records first thing. Go to dadsdivorce.com for more info.


OP,

As others have said, consult with your attorney about all matters pertaining to your D.

That said, I tend to agree with Chaparral based on the information at Alimony Calculator Texas | Laws.com. Among other things, if you were married fewer than 10 years when you filed for divorce, as appears to be the case, it is unlikely that she will receive alimony.

Best of luck.


----------



## ThePheonix

Rookie4 said:


> If she respected you, then she wouldn't have cheated in the first place.


That's right. Once respect is gone, its gone. (a left the building before the affair came along) You may successfully attack, but you won't regain respect. Fear and hatred maybe, but not respect.


----------



## LongWalk

If your lawyers agrees, you can write to her counsel and request information from her workplace. This is implicitly a threat that you can go directly yourself and blow up her job. This ought to put you in a better negotiating position. It is, however, probably not in your financial interest have her unemployed.

You have already gone to OM's wife so his life is probably complicated now.

The most important thing is the welfare of your children.

Be very correct and tough to keep her inline.

You need her to respect you. That is all that counts now. Work to end up in her books as the bad husband but good father.


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## OnTheRocks

Rookie4 said:


> Why? If you have already divorced, and have the custody arrangement in place, what business of yours is it to nark out your ex wife and her boss.? Revenge?
> Exposure, is primarily used as a method of ending the affair. Exposure after the divorce is worthless.


Why not exact some harsh revenge against two people who destroyed his family? As long as it won't hurt him, I say do it. Fvck them up as bad as you can legally get away with.


----------



## Tobin

OnTheRocks said:


> Why not exact some harsh revenge against two people who destroyed his family? As long as it won't hurt him, I say do it. Fvck them up as bad as you can legally get away with.


Of course it's going to hurt him, he's gotta raise two children with her. If he hurts her, it hurts them. 

Such advise to seek revenge is irresponsible.


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## 3putt

Tobin said:


> Of course it's going to hurt him, he's gotta raise two children with her. If he hurts her, it hurts them.
> 
> Such advise to seek revenge is irresponsible.


Bullsh!t!

If more people suffered real consequences for this kind of sh!tty behavior, then perhaps more people would think twice before engaging in it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

ThePheonix said:


> That's right. Once respect is gone, its gone. (a left the building before the affair came along) You may successfully attack, but you won't regain respect. Fear and hatred maybe, but not respect.


I respect a lion because I know it could eat me if it wanted too. I respect it enough not to fvck with one if I ever came face to face with it. I wouldn't fear it unless I gave it a reason to become aggressive with me. I wouldn't hate it unless it ate my children.

Once the love is gone, its gone. You can still respect something without loving it. There's a difference. When the love leaves if you respect them you file for divorce, when you don't you cheat.

We can agree to disagree. My advice to BS's out there. Go get your respect back and give the cheater exactly what they are looking for. Don't worry about upsetting them... They won't do anything and even if they could that's why you wait till the divorce is final. 99% of them are straight up cowards anyway that's why they sneak around to begin with.


----------



## sparrow555

EleGirl said:


> As others have said, do what your lawyer says to do. Do not go off on your own and do things that could grossly, negatively ruin your case.
> 
> Telling her employer will most likely get her fired. That means that you will get slapped with alimony to support her until she gets a job. Do you really want to end up with months, if not years, of high alimony payments?
> 
> What good would telling her employer do? You are not interested in reconciliation. At this point all you seem to want is revenge. Beating the guy up as revenge. Now you want her to be unemployed. You were lucky that you were not charged for beating the guy up. You might not get luck if you get her fired. You need to do only that which protects you and your children.
> 
> If you don't mind sharing, what state do you live in? In most states, infidelity does not matter in a divorce. So you would be really shooting yourself in the foot if you expose her and get her fired.
> 
> I doubt that doing this would make you feel better.


This post is an example on why you don't blindly take online advice. This is wrong advice or this person has no idea and did not read the post..


You need the evidence of affair as she was asking unreasonable amount of child support and alimony. Take your lawyers opinion on this and follow his advice. The lawyer can easily subpoena the company for the emails that these two had and you can easily get evidence of the affair. Since this is a large private organization, they will be having ample backups.

Alimony is decided on earning potential. She won't be given alimony just because she got fired recently. The judge will take account of her previous income history and the amount she earned all these years. That applies to you too. you just cannot take a pay cut during the divorce and ask for reduced alimony. 

And if your state has Alienation of affection laws, you can even pursue the company into firing her boss and get some compensation in return. But it depends on what you are willing to go through. Courts can get expensive and if you can get her into getting a decent and fair settlement with threats of exposure, that might be the best way forward. 

And even in the worst case, threatening to expose the affair at the work place will give you good leverage to stop her from exploiting you in terms of child support or alimony.


----------



## sparrow555

Tobin said:


> Of course it's going to hurt him, he's gotta raise two children with her. If he hurts her, it hurts them.
> 
> Such advise to seek revenge is irresponsible.


Really depends. If she think he is a walkover, she might exploit the situation even further down the line. 

He treated her fairly all these years and what did he get in return ? There is no proof that she will play nice if OP plays nice as see by her demands for excessive alimony. 

IMO, he should make it painful enough for her to not mess with him again. That does not necessarily mean exposing her but making sure that she understands that he has no problem doing it if it comes to it.




> My ex caught wind of all of this and called me telling my not to tell her job because she will lose her job. She said that she would sign the divorce paper at any time but that I should leave her job out of it. I told her that if she was only having lunch, she would have quite a lawsuit against the company if they fired her for that. My lawyer has told me that evidence of her cheating could tip things in my favor as far as the division of property.


Use this to get a honest confession and good custody arrangement from your ex. If it is a one party consent state, you can even record it. You can become more fair if she can prove that she is a competent mother.

Can I ask what country she is from ? Southern America ?


----------



## OldWolf57

Thanks Chap for pointing out that lil fact.

But careful gents and ladies. we all know WHO don't even believe in VAR's and snooping, but WILL run to the mods tattling.

OP, I will take fearing me over respect any day. Why ?? I am a sociopath and care not 1 jot what people think of me, as long as they leave me the hell alone.

To repeat, no one here has had alimony increased for causing the POS to lose their job. Nor has any that came back said as much.
By the same token, many have come back to say thanks, and they wished they had acted sooner.

And as for revenge, I whole heartily believe it.
What's so wrong with doing on to others ten times more than they did to you??
Now I can see the moralists and Christens gearing up, but I just don't care.
I have SEEN the evil so called good men do, so save it.

OP, your lawyer works for you !!! Yes he has knowledge, but you are the boss, and sad to say many just follow the path of least resistance.
Why do you think the real sharks get paid so much, they fight dirty.


----------



## Dyokemm

Great post OldWolf57....wish I could like it more than once.

I would change only one thing for myself....I don't want people to fear me in the sense they are afraid that I will do them wrong or injure them.

But I do want them to fear what I will do if they unjustly screw with me first.

As my pop drilled into my head growing up:

NEVER f*ck with another person's life.....never do others wrong.

BUT also, NEVER put up with anyone messing with you.

He always said to make sure to teach anyone who did me wrong a lesson so severe they never would do so again.

And just to be clear....my dad was talking about those 'red line' type of severe injuries.....not just everyday rudeness or bad behavior.

His advice on that was to immediately confront and demand it stop...if they wouldn't knock it off, cut them out of my life.

What he meant was that some things were so bad, you simply could not let them pass without severe consequences for the a**hat that had screwed you over.


----------



## P51Geo1980

GusPolinski said:


> No worries, all caught up now. And hey, at least I copped to not having read the entire thing.
> 
> Anyway, you can put away your butthurt now.


Ok oh mighty keyboard warrior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

P51Geo1980 said:


> Ok oh mighty keyboard warrior.


I can tell that this is shaping up to be a truly epic exchange.

And y'know... if you'd try just a _little_ harder, you could probably find a way to repeat even more of the words from your first reply.


----------



## Rookie4

OnTheRocks said:


> Why not exact some harsh revenge against two people who destroyed his family? As long as it won't hurt him, I say do it. Fvck them up as bad as you can legally get away with.


Stop thinking of your own pride and start thinking about the kids welfare, would be a better idea. This woman is the mother of your kids, she isn't going away and you will have to deal with her for several years. So , you blow up her job and that will make it easier to deal with her? Grow Up. Have you noticed that most of these internet tough guys haven't mentioned the kids, at all? They are only thinking about their wounded pride. Too bad if it harms the kids, as long as they get their revenge, right? People like that think they are being macho, but in reality they are weak, because they put their own feelings ahead of their kids welfare.


----------



## Rookie4

OP, exposure only has any real value if you use it or the threat of it as a method of stopping an on-going affair, or as a divorce tactic to soften up you ex-spouses settlement demands. Once you have decided on divorce, what difference does it make what the cheating c*nt does or thinks? The only thing you need to be concerned about is getting along well enough with her for the sake of the kids, so that your kids will suffer the least amount of damage possible, under the circumstances. Protecting your kids should be the first and only concern you have.


----------



## thatbpguy

To me, there's a difference between revenge and setting the record straight. I have zero issues letting people know what's been going on- but only for the right motive. Once you start the revenge game, what goes around, comes around. But if you're doing so for purposes of honesty and accountability, then go for it.


----------



## jelly_bean

The judge will see vindictive behavior as reason to not issue you custody of the children so be careful. Getting her fired in the judges eyes will be seen as being willing vindictive as you are obviously proceeding with divorce.

This is the hardest part of being a parent, can you put aside the mountain of anger and resentment (which is FULLY justified) for what is best for your children?

You want her to pay for the horrible behaviour, get back at here with being the better parent, meet somebody new, and show off how much better every aspect of your life is than hers. She loves get a reaction from you and you are playing right into her hands.

If you truly want the children cause somebody with her obvious low morals and narcissist personality probably is not the best person to raise the kids then keep a level head. She will screw up, stupid and selfish people always do and then you strike. Patience and showing you are the better person to the judge will be rewarded.


----------



## Rookie4

thatbpguy said:


> To me, there's a difference between revenge and setting the record straight. I have zero issues letting people know what's been going on- but only for the right motive. Once you start the revenge game, what goes around, comes around. But if you're doing so for purposes of honesty and accountability, then go for it.


I agree 100%. After the divorce is final, then you should go to friends and family and give them the square biz. This is perfectly all right, and will show that you are not to blame. Blowing up her job.........extremely bad idea.


----------



## Rookie4

jelly_bean said:


> The judge will see vindictive behavior as reason to not issue you custody of the children so be careful. Getting her fired in the judges eyes will be seen as being willing vindictive as you are obviously proceeding with divorce.
> 
> This is the hardest part of being a parent, can you put aside the mountain of anger and resentment (which is FULLY justified) for what is best for your children?
> 
> You want her to pay for the horrible behaviour, get back at here with being the better parent, meet somebody new, and show off how much better every aspect of your life is than hers. She loves get a reaction from you and you are playing right into her hands.
> 
> If you truly want the children cause somebody with her obvious low morals and narcissist personality probably is not the best person to raise the kids then keep a level head. She will screw up, stupid and selfish people always do and then you strike. Patience and showing you are the better person to the judge will be rewarded.


Great post, Jelly Bean. Like my old Daddy used to say , use your head for something other than a hat rack. To win the divorce, you have to be smarter and more in control than the opposition. That is what will get the job done. Plus, you will always be able to take advantage of any future fu*kups on her part.


----------



## Rookie4

During my divorce, I made sure that my ex wife only contacted me through my attorney. I even had a restraining order put on her so she could not talk to me over the phone or in person. I made sure that she fully understood that I wanted no part of her , and would only discus the divorce settlement and the kids. Nothing more.


----------



## Tobin

sparrow555 said:


> This post is an example on why you don't blindly take online advice. This is wrong advice or this person has no idea and did not read the post..


Actually your advice is wrong, not the advice you quoted. 



sparrow555 said:


> You need the evidence of affair as she was asking unreasonable amount of child support and alimony.


Most courts do not consider infidelity when making awards of alimony and definitely not when it comes to child support. 



sparrow555 said:


> Alimony is decided on earning potential. She won't be given alimony just because she got fired recently. The judge will take account of her previous income history and the amount she earned all these years.


Sometimes the courts impute income and sometimes they don't. They might award alimony with the understanding that he could come back to court and ask for a modification when she gets a job- if she gets a job. Who wants to go back to court and spend thousands of dollars in legal fees for a possible modification?



sparrow555 said:


> And if your state has Alienation of affection laws, you can even pursue the company into firing her boss and get some compensation in return.


Good luck with that. 



sparrow555 said:


> Courts can get expensive and if you can get her into getting a decent and fair settlement with threats of exposure, that might be the best way forward.


This is the only thing you said that is correct. It's also the reason NOT to increase hostilities by getting her fired. 



sparrow555 said:


> And even in the worst case, threatening to expose the affair at the work place will give you good leverage to stop her from exploiting you in terms of child support or alimony.


Ok, you said a second thing right. Again, its another reason NOT to get her fired.


----------



## Tobin

3putt said:


> Bullsh!t!
> 
> If more people suffered real consequences for this kind of sh!tty behavior, then perhaps more people would think twice before engaging in it.


Nah. People still rob and murder even though they know they could spend a lot of time in jail. 

It sounds good in theory but in actuality it just doesn't work that way. People either think they won't get caught or they are just so caught up in the feel good emotions of the affair they just go with it, even though they know it's going to probably be a marriage ending blunder.

The fact that so many people "liked" your post shows how many betrayed spouses on here are so quick to pile on to endorse reckless advice to try to get a spouse fired just because it feels good to say and do it, regardless of the negative consequences. That's a huge problem with forums like this one, it's not all about advice, it's largely about people giving "feel good" advice based on their own emotions and experiences, rather than what will actually work.


----------



## sparrow555

> Actually your advice is wrong, not the advice you quoted.


Lets see



> Most courts do not consider infidelity when making awards of alimony and definitely not when it comes to child support.


Wrong. 

Depends on the state OP is in. Some states are cheating = no alimony states. Child support depends on custody arrangement, which depends on how it is shared. 


And even if OP is in a no fault state, the evidence of her infidelity is something he can use as an advantage because of the situation at her job. 




> Sometimes the courts impute income and sometimes they don't. They might award alimony with the understanding that he could come back to court and ask for a modification when she gets a job- if she gets a job. Who wants to go back to court and spend thousands of dollars in legal fees for a possible modification? Good luck with that.



Look at the context I posted the info. I wasn't wrong. I was saying that Got fired # full alimony. I was denying the scare mongering in the quoted post.





> This is the only thing you said that is correct. It's also the reason NOT to increase hostilities by getting her fired.





> Ok, you said a second thing right. Again, its another reason NOT to get her fired.



You just wanted to argue and say that you are right. You did not add anything useful


----------



## 3putt

Tobin said:


> Nah. People still rob and murder even though they know they could spend a lot of time in jail.
> 
> It sounds good in theory but in actuality it just doesn't work that way. People either think they won't get caught or they are just so caught up in the feel good emotions of the affair they just go with it, even though they know it's going to probably be a marriage ending blunder.
> 
> The fact that so many people "liked" your post shows how many betrayed spouses on here are so quick to pile on to endorse reckless advice to try to get a spouse fired just because it feels good to say and do it, regardless of the negative consequences. That's a huge problem with forums like this one, it's not all about advice, it's largely about people giving "feel good" advice based on their own emotions and experiences, rather than what will actually work.


You obviously have *no* clue what you're talking about, so I'll just leave it alone. Not in the mood for another one of these.


----------



## OldWolf57

OP, I'm all for using work exposure for negotiation purposes,
I never said blow up her job. That would hurt your kids, from what you've said of the area and her prospects.
As for your pride, that's something every man decide for himself.

You are not me. I have little feelings for anything and anyone. In fact a judge once said " you have the least regard for human life than anyone that's ever been before me"
Not bragging just putting out there, some are not just internet tough guys. Some of us are just mentally and emotionally stunted,, accept it, and deal with it.

You have kids to think about, and if getting her fired would be a hardship to them. I see it as it would be considering the area, and her prospects, so be smart and win smart.


----------



## Augusto

Tobin said:


> Of course it's going to hurt him, he's gotta raise two children with her. If he hurts her, it hurts them.
> 
> Such advise to seek revenge is irresponsible.


Reap what you sew!!


----------



## Augusto

OldWolf57 said:


> OP, I'm all for using work exposure for negotiation purposes,
> I never said blow up her job. That would hurt your kids, from what you've said of the area and her prospects.
> As for your pride, that's something every man decide for himself.
> 
> You are not me. I have little feelings for anything and anyone. In fact a judge once said " you have the least regard for human life than anyone that's ever been before me"
> Not bragging just putting out there, some are not just internet tough guys. Some of us are just mentally and emotionally stunted,, accept it, and deal with it.
> 
> You have kids to think about, and if getting her fired would be a hardship to them. I see it as it would be considering the area, and her prospects, so be smart and win smart.



I have a real problem with the way you say blowing up her job would hurt her kids. She should have considered all of this before hand. Her taking that risk with her kids should say something about her. To me it shows she put herself first before her children and therefore did not care enough if it did happen.


----------



## OldWolf57

They ALWAYS put themselves first.
This will be shared custody, if she has no job, she is limited in how well she can provide for them.
That's what I mean.

I know not what she has in savings, or retirements to draw on, but from his words, jobs are hard to come by there, and she is lucky to even have her position.

As for you having a problem. Deal with it your own way.


----------



## Rookie4

Augusto said:


> I have a real problem with the way you say blowing up her job would hurt her kids. She should have considered all of this before hand. Her taking that risk with her kids should say something about her. To me it shows she put herself first before her children and therefore did not care enough if it did happen.


What she did or thought , and what she deserves or not, are all irrelevant at this point. What is important NOW is for the OP to win the divorce settlement. After my divorce, my ex wife's wants and needs were only relevant in so far as they effected my family . On the personal level, she was a non-person, and I did not care what happened to her, as long as we were able to cooperate on family issues.
The trouble with a lot of divorces is that the exes are more concerned about hurting the other person, than they are about protecting their kids.


----------



## Chaparral

The hurt a person bears from adulterous behavior is a burden they put on their own shoulders. If its against company rules, they knew the risks they were taking could get them fired. The reason you follow rules is to avoid the consequences of breaking the rules.

When you break the rules, paying the piper is a must. It encourages you to do better the next time and it encourages better behavior by those that see what your bad example cost you.

Losing their job is a minor sacrifice compared to what they did to your family which is total destruction of your current life.

Turning and slinking away with your tail between your legs like a whipped dog is a burden I would not bear. Those that are suggesting that have a strange way of reconciling themselves to what in my opinion is cowardice. Your wife and her boy toy deserve firing and much worse.


----------



## Rookie4

Chaparral said:


> The hurt a person bears from adulterous behavior is a burden they put on their own shoulders. If its against company rules, they knew the risks they were taking could get them fired. The reason you follow rules is to avoid the consequences of breaking the rules.
> 
> When you break the rules, paying the piper is a must. It encourages you to do better the next time and it encourages better behavior by those that see what your bad example cost you.
> 
> Losing their job is a minor sacrifice compared to what they did to your family which is total destruction of your current life.
> 
> Turning and slinking away with your tail between your legs like a whipped dog is a burden I would not bear. Those that are suggesting that have a strange way of reconciling themselves to what in my opinion is cowardice. Your wife and her boy toy deserve firing and much worse.


Yep, they deserve it, right. Who cares if the BS has to pay more, right? Who cares about the kids, right?. Who cares if there is turmoil and troubles for years into the future, right? All that matters is that they are punished. Even if it hurts other people. How many people actually believe this, and how many of you are parents.


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## Wolfman1968

Get the divorce settlement first. Get that victory. It's the most important thing. You can decide later if you need to go nuclear.

“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win” 
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Take heed of this advice.


----------



## weightlifter

IIRC the number of states where infidelity can have an effect on alimony and division is like 7.
NC, SC, VA, TX are four of them. Anyone know the others?
In most states, you could come in with a HD video of an encounter and it would not matter.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Oh boy, here we go again with the crazy logical fallacies. How many of us are parents? LOL. 

Dude, listen to your lawyer and if he says expose do it high and low. 

Also, pay attention to the blame shifting irony. If you expose YOU are hurting your children and may have to pay more...LOL. Kind of funny how her lies and her affair are never mentioned with the same tone of revenge, vindictiveness or damage to the kids.


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## popa

Well things have changed somewhat since the last time I posted her. I let my anger get the best of me and sent a email to 3 HR execs. I also BCC her boss which is the guy she cheated with. The email was very short and all I asked was how could I report a case of fraternization and I name dropped both of them. A few hours later, the top HR person emailed me back with the contacts and she even CC a couple other people about it. I guess they alerted my ex and she called me angry and upset. She said that someone sent a email to HR and that she knew it was me. She was hysterical and calling me all sorts of names. She kept saying she would lose her job now and I had to keep reminding her that she should not lose her job since she only had lunch (according to the lie she gave me). Anyway, she took this info to her lawyer and he threatened saying that he can get me for harassment. Still, there is no evidence of harassment and all I did was ask a simple question. I have not emailed or called HR back and I'm sure they are waiting for me. My ex went home early that day because she didn't want to be questioned and I was hoping that the boss resigns out of fear that I will come forward with everything.

Anyway, the good part is that my ex is willing to drop the insane child support demands as well as the alimony. We have come up with an agreement about the kids that I'm comfortable with. I don't know how things will play out since the divorce still isn't final but she is willing to make the divorce easier now since she see that she may lose her job. I'm guessing they probably have me labeled at her job as some disgruntled, jealous, ex husband but in the end, she knows the truth and that's fine by me. I don't know if this makes me look weak but she knows that I have the power to get them both fired any day of the week so it seems like for now, she is willing to play nice. Hearing her call me crying and calling me all sorts of animals made me feel a little better. Maybe it's the fact that I see that she is feeling some of the pain that she caused me all this time. I don't know if that's right or wrong but for now, I don't plan on taking this job thing any further unless I have to.


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## happyman64

just make sure you are covered legally and that any concessions she gives are recorded legally.

Good move by the way if it smoothes your divorce.


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## toonaive

Now that you have gotten it out of your system, please no more communication like this.


----------



## BrockLanders

popa said:


> Well things have changed somewhat since the last time I posted her. I let my anger get the best of me and sent a email to 3 HR execs. I also BCC her boss which is the guy she cheated with. The email was very short and all I asked was how could I report a case of fraternization and I name dropped both of them. A few hours later, the top HR person emailed me back with the contacts and she even CC a couple other people about it. I guess they alerted my ex and she called me angry and upset. She said that someone sent a email to HR and that she knew it was me. She was hysterical and calling me all sorts of names. She kept saying she would lose her job now and I had to keep reminding her that she should not lose her job since she only had lunch (according to the lie she gave me). Anyway, she took this info to her lawyer and he threatened saying that he can get me for harassment. Still, there is no evidence of harassment and all I did was ask a simple question. I have not emailed or called HR back and I'm sure they are waiting for me. My ex went home early that day because she didn't want to be questioned and I was hoping that the boss resigns out of fear that I will come forward with everything.
> 
> Anyway, the good part is that my ex is willing to drop the insane child support demands as well as the alimony. We have come up with an agreement about the kids that I'm comfortable with. I don't know how things will play out since the divorce still isn't final but she is willing to make the divorce easier now since she see that she may lose her job. I'm guessing they probably have me labeled at her job as some disgruntled, jealous, ex husband but in the end, she knows the truth and that's fine by me. I don't know if this makes me look weak but she knows that I have the power to get them both fired any day of the week so it seems like for now, she is willing to play nice. Hearing her call me crying and calling me all sorts of animals made me feel a little better. Maybe it's the fact that I see that she is feeling some of the pain that she caused me all this time. I don't know if that's right or wrong but for now, I don't plan on taking this job thing any further unless I have to.


You handled this like a boss. Nice job!


----------



## GusPolinski

Well, you've used your trump card. Regardless of what your STBXW is saying at the moment, things may very well get messy from here on out.


----------



## convert

I think there *might* be one more trump card - his lawyer could still subpoena the text messages and/or emails.


----------



## OldWolf57

LOL LOVE IT P !!!

Your anger did what needed to be done to break the stalemate.
Some say you only had "he said she said." You and I know when she deleted the work emails, there was more.
He knows they are stored, now she knows.
Their big worry now, is how far you are willing to push it, and if the company will look any further. 
Tell her to stop spreading lies about you, and sign the damn papers, and you won't push it.

Also, a post by WeightLifter said cheating could affect settlements in your state.
Brother, with those emails sitting there with that evidence, you really are in the Captain seat.

Now, on another subject,,, kids and damage.
P, many here don't really know squat about what really get said and done in kids daily lives.
They actually think their kids talk about what really goes on, but they are so wrong.
Did you?? NO !! None of us did.
People are so surprised, when they find out what kids really know and do when not around them, yet continue to see them as babies. Well they are not.
And no one here can tell me they told their parents everything. There is so much we learned from friends that we never talked to parents about, and never will.
Yes, they get damaged in D, but I bet they have friends who's parents are D'ed also.
That help them with accepting, and growing seeing it's not the end. That it's just another way grownups act.
Now I'm not telling you they won't need you, cause they will. So talk to those boys and let them see you being the dad you've always been.


----------



## Chaparral

Rookie4 said:


> Yep, they deserve it, right. Who cares if the BS has to pay more, right? Who cares about the kids, right?. Who cares if there is turmoil and troubles for years into the future, right? All that matters is that they are punished. Even if it hurts other people. How many people actually believe this, and how many of you are parents.


Still waiting for proof, after all these years, that exposure cost them more money in alimony.

Still believe children should be told the truth about infidelity in an age appropriate way, they need to know both parents won't lie to them.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

popa said:


> Anyway, the good part is that my ex is willing to drop the insane child support demands as well as the alimony.


Weak? No.

Sorry dude, go look up the word leverage it is power.


----------



## Rookie4

OP. this was a really, really bad idea. I sincerely hope it works out for you, but you should NOT have done it. Do you realize that by implicating her Boss by name , you can possibly be sued for slander? Do you have enough solid proof that an affair occurred? I mean evidence that will stand up in court? Her boss isn't going to run away with his tail between his legs, if he values his job, he will do all he can to discredit you. You better stop thinking with your emotions and start using you intellect, or you could be looking at a lawsuit.


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## GusPolinski

Rookie isn't wrong here, folks.

Now might be a good time to go after any email or internal IM communications between WW and OM.


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## Chaparral

I doubt when the emails and texts are broght out, slander is the last thing he has to worry about. 

The one thats checking his drawers is the sh:t eating boss.


----------



## OldWolf57

He do have a point Gus, but I'll pay HALF his damages if those emails don't prove it.

First off, pos is a coward. He's hoping P go away, and the Bosses don't look any further.
Yeah he's fighting for his marriage, but he has shown he will run rather than fight.
Second, there is no way pos emails to her can explain communicating with her more than with others at the company in that time frame.

Sometime ppl make things too complicated, but in this,, it's garden variety pos and a dumb ww.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> OP. this was a really, really bad idea. I sincerely hope it works out for you, but you should NOT have done it. Do you realize that by implicating her Boss by name , you can possibly be sued for slander? Do you have enough solid proof that an affair occurred? I mean evidence that will stand up in court? Her boss isn't going to run away with his tail between his legs, if he values his job, he will do all he can to discredit you. You better stop thinking with your emotions and start using you intellect, or you could be looking at a lawsuit.


This is 100% correct, but missing 50% of the issue. Talk to your lawyer before you let internet legal eagles scare you to death.


----------



## naiveonedave

slander is very hard to prove. All he has to prove is that he is/was suspicious of the behavior of the W and POS. In fact, by going to the HR department at their place of work, with reasonable cause, isn't going to get him in trouble for slander. He probably should get a real lawyer to discuss this, but based on the STBEXW giving him a better settlement, 1-it was an affair, and 2-she knows email review would cost her job.


----------



## Tobin

popa said:


> Anyway, the good part is that my ex is willing to drop the insane child support demands as well as the alimony. We have come up with an agreement about the kids that I'm comfortable with.


Was all of this agreed upon before or after you informed HR of the affair?

If it was agreed upon before, expect her to be much less cooperative going forward, to the point that she'll renege on her earlier agreements.

If she agreed to all of this after you informed HR, well then congrats for skillfully playing your trump card and having the desired effect- assuming of course she doesn't change her mind at some point.


----------



## Tobin

sparrow555 said:


> Depends on the state OP is in. Some states are cheating = no alimony states.


As I said originally, *Most *courts do not consider cheating when making alimony awards. You said I was wrong, and then you go and post "some states" which is exactly what I said!

Very few states are cheating= no alimony states, and the cheating must be proven in those states that do.




sparrow555 said:


> Child support depends on custody arrangement, which depends on how it is shared.


Of course. Why state the obvious. 



sparrow555 said:


> And even if OP is in a no fault state, the evidence of her infidelity is something he can use as an advantage because of the situation at her job.


He could have used the _threat_ of exposure as a negotiating tool, that is not in dispute by anyone on this thread, but of course now he's already played that card.



sparrow555 said:


> Look at the context I posted the info. I wasn't wrong. I was saying that Got fired # full alimony. I was denying the scare mongering in the quoted post.


I saw the context and I think you're wrong, as I originally posted.

As far as getting fired does not equal getting full alimony; you never know. Sometimes courts will impute income based on earning history and sometimes they won't. Why risk it? The post you quoted was not "scare mongering" it was responsible advice. 



sparrow555 said:


> You just wanted to argue and say that you are right. You did not add anything useful


No, my intent was to make it clear to readers that your advice was incorrect, and I do believe I added useful information.



3putt said:


> You obviously have *no* clue what you're talking about, so I'll just leave it alone. Not in the mood for another one of these.


Then why bother posting what you did?



phillybeffandswiss said:


> listen to your lawyer and if he says expose do it high and low.


Why would ANY lawyer recommend exposure? From a legal standpoint it won't do any good at all, and has the potential to escalate conflict and make settlement less likely.



OldWolf57 said:


> I'll pay HALF his damages if those emails don't prove it.


Yeah sure you will. Why post such nonsense?



GusPolinski said:


> Well, you've used your trump card. Regardless of what your STBXW is saying at the moment, things may very well get messy from here on out.


Ya think?


----------



## popa

Rookie4 said:


> OP. this was a really, really bad idea. I sincerely hope it works out for you, but you should NOT have done it. Do you realize that by implicating her Boss by name , you can possibly be sued for slander? Do you have enough solid proof that an affair occurred? I mean evidence that will stand up in court? Her boss isn't going to run away with his tail between his legs, if he values his job, he will do all he can to discredit you. You better stop thinking with your emotions and start using you intellect, or you could be looking at a lawsuit.


Maybe I'm naive but I really don't see him coming after me for slander. First of all, he could have had me arrested last year for assault but didn't. Secondly, my ex has went through great lengths to hide these emails and has even tried to say that they don't exist. I've bluffed in the past and told her that I've seen some of the emails on her laptop and I used generic terms like you told him that you missed him. All she does is get quiet and doesnt refute any of it. The only other solid evidence I have right now are the text messages. I don't have the actual transcripts but I do have the times and dates. All of the texts we're sent at times that she was at work or when I wasn't around. There is no doubt in my mind that there was an affair so I would welcome him coming at me for slander because that would give me an excuse to blow this all up.


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## phillybeffandswiss

> Why would ANY lawyer recommend exposure?


In one thread, a lawyer said the divorce would be ridiculously expensive and it may be in the OPs best interest to attempt reconciliation through exposure.
In another, it was used as a countermeasure to lies concerning child custody issues.



Yes, this is a completely different situation. Still, I said contact his lawyer and go with what the person said.


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This is 100% correct, but missing 50% of the issue. Talk to your lawyer before you let internet legal eagles scare you to death.


This is 100% correct. Do NOT take advice from a website as gospel. LISTEN TO YOUR LAWYER. Do what he says, and DON'T do what he says not to do. And DO NOT go off on your own hook. Good Luck.


----------



## OldWolf57

Not even gonna state what I think some posters sound like, but gonna say they maybe GOT WHAT they sound like.
You live ur life like a puss!, you get treated like one,,, then you are surprised !!

LOOK at the REAL world !!!
Anyone that don't or won't, is NOT being true IMHP to keeping up on real life.

Don't really know if it's because ppl want to feel, there's 1 place they can let their guard down, of if they are just feeling the world is just too NASTY a place, but refusing to see this world as it is, WON'T make it go away.

I lay my head down EVERY NIGHT knowing that I am safe !!! 
I know Laying down I did my all.
Not saying spider senses not on alert, but know I will response if I WAKE UP !!!

Extreme ??? Live my life, then tell me that.

You guys are not even close to sht like that.
You never lived thru drivebys, or stalking a sht, and laying on his car-port roof, or laying in a fire ant bed for hours.

Yeah !! I feel ya !!!,, but you are alive and you will live !!!!

You are alive !!!! And go to battle like SUN say.

I GUARANTEE if more guys did,,, a lot more pos's would think twice.

OP,, sry,,, sort of a rant,, but my location and ANYONE can PM me, so call me out,, but invite me for a visit PM.
I WILL BE THERE !!!


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## OldWolf57

Got the means !!!


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## OldWolf57

outer here for the night, my WHOLE FKIN LIFE triggering !!!


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## alte Dame

Please do what you can to get hold of your oldest's passport. Ask your lawyer what you can do to have your children flagged for any travel outside the country without you.


----------



## tom67

Go see a lawyer we had a guy here who got paid off to not expose to the public.
Think he got $150,000.


----------



## Dyokemm

"garden variety pos"

lmao....love this descriptor.


----------



## Rookie4

naiveonedave said:


> slander is very hard to prove. All he has to prove is that he is/was suspicious of the behavior of the W and POS. In fact, by going to the HR department at their place of work, with reasonable cause, isn't going to get him in trouble for slander. He probably should get a real lawyer to discuss this, but based on the STBEXW giving him a better settlement, 1-it was an affair, and 2-she knows email review would cost her job.


Slander is NOT hard to prove, if you give them the proof, beforehand. This OP named , names. He could have talked to the HR people and said I suspect my wife is involved with .....somebody. By naming the OM, he has put himself in the position of having to prove his allegations, if the OM wants to pursue it. Really, bad idea.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rookie4 said:


> Slander is NOT hard to prove, if you give them the proof, beforehand. This OP named , names. He could have talked to the HR people and said I suspect my wife is involved with .....somebody. By naming the OM, he has put himself in the position of having to prove his allegations, if the OM wants to pursue it. Really, bad idea.


Granted, I'm no HR expert, but I'd think that -- at this point -- they're likely performing their own investigation.

Rookie, you worked in HR, right? Sorry, can't remember.


----------



## tom67

Rookie4 said:


> Slander is NOT hard to prove, if you give them the proof, beforehand. This OP named , names. He could have talked to the HR people and said I suspect my wife is involved with .....somebody. By naming the OM, he has put himself in the position of having to prove his allegations, if the OM wants to pursue it. Really, bad idea.


Only thing though discovery goes both ways so does he want to open pandora's box?


----------



## Rookie4

OP, I think that I am done here. While I sympathize with you, I do not think you are a very wise man. Many posters have given you some very good advice. 1 . Put your kids, before your pride 2. Do what your lawyer tells you to do 3. Do not go off half-****ed. Discus everything you do or say about the divorce, WITH YOUR LAWYER, BEFORE you act. I truly hope you are lucky, because you are not being smart.


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> Granted, I'm no HR expert, but I'd think that -- at this point -- they're likely performing their own investigation.
> 
> Rookie, you worked in HR, right? Sorry, can't remember.


Yes, I did work in HR as a stepping stone to corporate management...And yes, there will be an investigation, of some sort. In our company, it would entail three things. 1. Corporate Liability 2. Corporate Policy 3. Cooperation with the Authorities. Also, let me make this very clear. No company is going to fire anybody, on the basis of here-say, or second-hand evidence. It simply is not going to happen. The OP will have to prove it, or the wife and her boss will have to confess, in front of witnesses. I can see no other way.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rookie4 said:


> Yes, I did work in HR as a stepping stone to corporate management...And yes, there will be an investigation, of some sort. In our company, it would entail three things. 1. Corporate Liability 2. Corporate Policy 3. Cooperation with the Authorities. Also, let me make this very clear. No company is going to fire anybody, on the basis of here-say, or second-hand evidence. It simply is not going to happen. The OP will have to prove it, or the wife and her boss will have to confess, in front of witnesses. I can see no other way.


OK, so there's an investigation... wouldn't this mean that the company will be going through any internal e-mails exchanged between the WW and OM? And, assuming that HR finds something there to support OP's claims, wouldn't that be actionable?

I'm not hoping for or advocating anything either way because -- like you said -- OP has been pretty reckless, and this could all backfire for him in a spectacularly bad way. I'm talking more in terms of likely outcomes.


----------



## Rookie4

Also, Gus, I've been involved in 3 lawsuits, during my life. The first time, I did much like this OP, I went off on my own and did a lot of things independently, without consulting my attorney. It cost me a judgement for punitive damages, of $3,000. It was a hard lesson to learn, but I learned it, well. The next 2 suits , I won both, because I followed my lawyers advice.
That is why I have repeatedly cautioned the OP to do NOTHING, without his lawyer's consent.


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> OK, so there's an investigation... wouldn't this mean that the company will be going through any internal e-mails exchanged between the WW and OM? And, assuming that HR finds something there to support OP's claims, wouldn't that be actionable?
> 
> I'm not hoping for or advocating anything either way because -- like you said -- OP has been pretty reckless, and this could all backfire for him in a spectacularly bad way. I'm talking more in terms of likely outcomes.


It is certainly very possible that they will check the E-mails.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rookie4 said:


> It is certainly very possible that they will check the E-mails.


I saw this happen years ago w/ a co-worker. She wasn't cheating, but she was doing some things that were inappropriate. Someone reported her to HR, at which point they started digging through her e-mails. Once they had their smoking gun, she got the axe. It was a real shame.


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> I saw this happen years ago w/ a co-worker. She wasn't cheating, but she was doing some things that were inappropriate. Someone reported her to HR, at which point they started digging through her e-mails. Once they had their smoking gun, she got the axe. It was a real shame.


Yes, I have had to fire several persons for computer misuse. Also, bear in mind that corporate computer use is , habitually monitored, as well. Something to think about.


----------



## TAMAT

Popa,

Good work on exposing at work, I hope you told about the car incident, this will be especially bad for the OM if he already has a history of inappropriate behavior on the job.

No cheater wants to take the witness stand and deny the affair they had, that would be perjury. 

Tamat


----------



## Nucking Futs

Rookie4 said:


> *OP, I think that I am done here.* While I sympathize with you, I do not think you are a very wise man. Many posters have given you some very good advice. 1 . Put your kids, before your pride 2. Do what your lawyer tells you to do 3. Do not go off half-****ed. Discus everything you do or say about the divorce, WITH YOUR LAWYER, BEFORE you act. I truly hope you are lucky, because you are not being smart.


:yay::yay::woohoo::bounce::smthumbup:



Rookie4 said:


> Yes, I did work in HR as a stepping stone to corporate management...And yes, there will be an investigation, of some sort. In our company, it would entail three things. 1. Corporate Liability 2. Corporate Policy 3. Cooperation with the Authorities. Also, let me make this very clear. No company is going to fire anybody, on the basis of here-say, or second-hand evidence. It simply is not going to happen. The OP will have to prove it, or the wife and her boss will have to confess, in front of witnesses. I can see no other way.





Rookie4 said:


> Also, Gus, I've been involved in 3 lawsuits, during my life. The first time, I did much like this OP, I went off on my own and did a lot of things independently, without consulting my attorney. It cost me a judgement for punitive damages, of $3,000. It was a hard lesson to learn, but I learned it, well. The next 2 suits , I won both, because I followed my lawyers advice.
> That is why I have repeatedly cautioned the OP to do NOTHING, without his lawyer's consent.





Rookie4 said:


> It is certainly very possible that they will check the E-mails.





Rookie4 said:


> Yes, I have had to fire several persons for computer misuse. Also, bear in mind that corporate computer use is , habitually monitored, as well. Something to think about.


Damn, I knew it was too good to be true.


----------



## Rookie4

Nucking Futs said:


> :yay::yay::woohoo::bounce::smthumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I knew it was too good to be true.


What I was doing, was answering questions. I am polite, unlike you.


----------



## 3putt

Rookie4 said:


> What I was doing, was answering questions. *I am polite*, unlike you.


:surprise:


----------



## Recoveringws

when you prepare for revenge, dig two graves. One is for yourself.

Exposure of an affair should be done when you are trying to kill off the affair to save the marriage. Exposing the affair a year after your spouse is gone, and to her job, is out of silly, immature revenge motives. With unknown consequences to the person who exposes it. Are you sure she doesn't have damaging information about you that she could spread around? Are you sure that she couldn't sue you for ruining her job by exposing her personal life? Consider this first.

I would say this simply. Grow up. The best "revenge" is living well.


----------



## ThePheonix

Is there any real evidence they used company emails to send love notes or is this just an assumption? They'd really have to be pretty stupid to use company email. But people are stupid enough to make a traceable record texting when voice would fade into oblivion. Additionally a "fishing expedition" subpoena for this company's email would be quashed within minutes by their attorneys for more reasons than I can shake a stick at. 
When you start incurring legal fees for discovery it ain't going take long before the costs are going to exceed lost pride from losing your woman.


----------



## popa

ThePheonix said:


> Is there any real evidence they used company emails to send love notes or is this just an assumption? They'd really have to be pretty stupid to use company email. But people are stupid enough to make a traceable record texting when voice would fade into oblivion. Additionally a "fishing expedition" subpoena for this company's email would be quashed within minutes by their attorneys for more reasons than I can shake a stick at.
> When you start incurring legal fees for discovery it ain't going take long before the costs are going to exceed lost pride from losing your woman.


I'm certain company email was used to discuss the affair for these reasons:

1. Texting and calling on her cell phone immediately stopped once I found out the first time

2. She started logging into her work email at home to send emails after hours. This was something that she never did before.

3. I checked the history of her laptop and although I couldn't read the emails, I could read the headings such as "About Tomorrow....."

4. When I confronted her to log in to her work email so I can see the emails, she conveniently forgot the password. After remembering the password 10 minutes later, she conveniently deleted every single email in her inbox and also looked over my shoulder to see where I was clicking.

5. I've lied to her and told her that I read some emails and that were very sexual and disrespectful to me. She does not deny or agree with anything when I say this. She just continues to make excuses.

6. She was certain that she would lose her job after the HR exposal. This wouldn't be characteristic of someone who did nothing wrong.

So no I don't have concrete proof but I'm willing to bet that there is something there. Anyway, it's all over now. The divorce was final on Tuesday and I'm moving on. I have to admit that it hurts a little bit and even on the day of the divorce, she was crying and it made me feel a little bad. I will just do my best to be there for our children and hopefully, they will grow to see what kind of man I am.


----------



## popa

Recoveringws said:


> when you prepare for revenge, dig two graves. One is for yourself.
> 
> Exposure of an affair should be done when you are trying to kill off the affair to save the marriage. Exposing the affair a year after your spouse is gone, and to her job, is out of silly, immature revenge motives. With unknown consequences to the person who exposes it. Are you sure she doesn't have damaging information about you that she could spread around? Are you sure that she couldn't sue you for ruining her job by exposing her personal life? Consider this first.
> 
> I would say this simply. Grow up. The best "revenge" is living well.


Grow up? Her boss is making 6 figures in the same position and although he contributed to ruining my life, I'm the one that needs to grow up? What about honor? What about the next young and sexy clerk that he will prey on and cheat again? Any way, I no longer believe in turning the other cheek and although I won't be pursuing this any further with her job, I'd be damned if I ever allow any other woman or man to disrespect me in the ways that they have. It's also still up in the air of whether or not I will knock his teeth out if I ever see him again. Sorry if you think I need to grow up but after losing daily interaction with my son's and being disrespected by my wife, I think I deserve to have a have revenge.


----------



## Dyokemm

I agree....all turning the other cheek gets you is another smack in the jaw.

I believe in living life giving others the same dignity and respect that I expect in return, the Golden Rule.....and making people who f*ck with me regret it forever.


----------



## OldWolf57

P, thanks for the update.

My friend, you have learned a hard lesson. One I hope many won't have to learn, but as long as people are people, we will have to deal hard sometime to get the respect any human deserve.

Revenge,,, believe in it wholeheartedly, and will REALLY live well KNOWING I got them back.

As you say, you don't have to do anything more. She knows to let sleeping dog lie.

Good Luck, and God Bless you going forward.


----------



## drifting on

Recoveringws said:


> when you prepare for revenge, dig two graves. One is for yourself.
> 
> Exposure of an affair should be done when you are trying to kill off the affair to save the marriage. Exposing the affair a year after your spouse is gone, and to her job, is out of silly, immature revenge motives. With unknown consequences to the person who exposes it. Are you sure she doesn't have damaging information about you that she could spread around? Are you sure that she couldn't sue you for ruining her job by exposing her personal life? Consider this first.
> 
> I would say this simply. Grow up. The best "revenge" is living well.



I just came across this little gem of a post!!! If you are as your name says a recoveringws perhaps you should come to understand something. When someone invades a family and cheats with either spouse you should be fully prepared to accept the consequences. That could just about be anything, after all you only researched your prey and quite possibly not all the family members. Of course someone may have preyed on you as well. My point is this, they're are some very unstable people in this world, and they are quite possibly capable of things you can't even fathom. 

Some of these people are so disturbed they may go after your family members just to make you suffer. How would you like your child beaten up as a punishment for your actions, or your mother, or anyone? I've seen this happen, so don't think for an instant you're all that smart in who you picked to have an affair with. I've seen things you could only shake your head at. But I bet you on this, if the OM/OW spouse came and kicked your ass deservedly you would call the police or file a lawsuit. I've had to go protect the cheater too, I've had to talk the BS down on many occasions. 

The OM to me invaded my family, something I consider an act of war, I don't promote revenge or vigilantes, but just remember, I may not promote it but it still happens. So while I don't promote revenge, it very well could happen to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sparrow555

You still can file a complaint with the HR.


----------



## ThePheonix

My advise is to let the OM wife know the score and forget about the "spilt milk" and your former crocodile teary wife. Its not worth your time to worry about his integrity of what he's going to do with the next clerk. The boy's a co-k hound and always will be and be somebody's high paid employee. You ain't going to change that. Besides its was your wife who offered herself up. 
Take my word for it. You can go to any company that employs ten men and more than half with do a female co-worker if she'll put it out there. Like my granddaddy use to say, "women control most of the money and all of puzzy". Most men will take both if she'll give it up."
Yours would Dawg. But you've rectified the problem.


----------



## Thor

popa said:


> It's also still up in the air of whether or not I will knock his teeth out if I ever see him again.


I agree with your sentiments, and the world would be a better place if BHs weren't criminalized for such behavior. But in the end you will be the one suffering immensely and for the rest of your life if you do knock his teeth out. Everything is tracked, video taped, and monitored. It just isn't worth the cost to you even though the pos deserves far more than being knocked around.


----------



## Marc878

I've been in the corp environment for 30+ years. A person in a manager position like this will probably be terminated if the investigation turns up anything improper especially if company email/cells were used. I've seen it many times. Those emails records are company property and are kept somewhere on a server.

You may have a case. He caused you financial and mental anguish on company time. They'll dump him quick to avoid the company being held accountable. 

If it's a large company they do a lot to guard their image.

As far as revenge. It's awesomely SWEET especially when served cold and well thought out. Why should you bear all the pain and suffering while they go free?

Revenge is the alpha thing to do. Excellent job!


----------



## Marc878

GusPolinski said:


> OK, so there's an investigation... wouldn't this mean that the company will be going through any internal e-mails exchanged between the WW and OM? And, assuming that HR finds something there to support OP's claims, wouldn't that be actionable?
> 
> I'm not hoping for or advocating anything either way because -- like you said -- OP has been pretty reckless, and this could all backfire for him in a spectacularly bad way. I'm talking more in terms of likely outcomes.


100% correct. Those emails contain improproprietes he's a goner. They'll pull up everything he's sent in the last year. Bang. I just saw it done last month where I work.


----------



## Marc878

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/288618-3-weeks-since-d-day.html

Check out this thread. Supervisor was termed two days after exposure.

Love it!!!!!!!


----------



## Rookie4

popa said:


> I'm certain company email was used to discuss the affair for these reasons:
> 
> 1. Texting and calling on her cell phone immediately stopped once I found out the first time
> 
> 2. She started logging into her work email at home to send emails after hours. This was something that she never did before.
> 
> 3. I checked the history of her laptop and although I couldn't read the emails, I could read the headings such as "About Tomorrow....."
> 
> 4. When I confronted her to log in to her work email so I can see the emails, she conveniently forgot the password. After remembering the password 10 minutes later, she conveniently deleted every single email in her inbox and also looked over my shoulder to see where I was clicking.
> 
> 5. I've lied to her and told her that I read some emails and that were very sexual and disrespectful to me. She does not deny or agree with anything when I say this. She just continues to make excuses.
> 
> 6. She was certain that she would lose her job after the HR exposal. This wouldn't be characteristic of someone who did nothing wrong.
> 
> So no I don't have concrete proof but I'm willing to bet that there is something there. Anyway, it's all over now. The divorce was final on Tuesday and I'm moving on. I have to admit that it hurts a little bit and even on the day of the divorce, she was crying and it made me feel a little bad. I will just do my best to be there for our children and hopefully, they will grow to see what kind of man I am.


Well, I;m glad you have updated, but I like your first update better than your second one. You are well rid of her, and now can do the best you can for your kids, and yourself. this is the best revenge you can get.......to live well. You need to forget about any violence.....unless you like being in jail. I've been there and it isn't so much fun.
You have been very lucky and have gotten rid of a cheating c*nt, and her crappy boss. If I were you I wouldn't give them the sweat off my n*ts , if they were on fire. Anything you attempt to do to them NOW, after the D is final will only hurt you, What both of them do NOW is none of your business, and the court will see it that way. The court will not take into consideration past issues, if you become violent. they didn't with me, either.

So....good luck, enjoy your family and ignore (as much as possible) Those losers.


----------



## TAMAT

The Phoenix,

You wrote, *The boy's a co-k hound and always will be and be somebody's high paid employee. You ain't going to change that. Besides its was your wife who offered herself up. *

Being a high paid employee is not a life long fact, especially if OM has a record of having affairs with subordinates, you also need to expose OM to his Linkedin contacts!

Tamat


----------



## bandit.45

Thor said:


> I agree with your sentiments, and the world would be a better place if BHs weren't criminalized for such behavior. But in the end you will be the one suffering immensely and for the rest of your life if you do knock his teeth out. Everything is tracked, video taped, and monitored. It just isn't worth the cost to you even though the pos deserves far more than being knocked around.


???

I don't think so. Maybe if he assaults the guy with a knife or crowbar...then maybe. 

Punching a guy out. Nah. At most he would get a misdemeanor simple assault. Maybe a night in the hooch and a fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyinLove

TAMAT said:


> The Phoenix,
> 
> You wrote, *The boy's a co-k hound and always will be and be somebody's high paid employee. You ain't going to change that. Besides its was your wife who offered herself up. *
> 
> Being a high paid employee is not a life long fact, especially if OM has a record of having affairs with subordinates, you also need to expose OM to his Linkedin contacts!
> 
> Tamat


As a LinkedIn member, I would delete and ignore any moron that contacted me about another members marriage, sex life or affairs. 

Keep it out of the workplace. Even if it started there. 

And as for using company email, unless it is sexual harassment, it's not usually an issue.


----------



## TAMAT

LonelyInLove,

You wrote, *As a LinkedIn member, I would delete and ignore any moron that contacted me about another members marriage, sex life or affairs. *

That's fine, part of the effect of exposure is psychological, the OM does not know who has read the message and how it has changed their view of him. Some number of the message recipients will have been cheated on and their estimation of OM will be reduced. 

Tamat


----------



## LonelyinLove

TAMAT said:


> LonelyInLove,
> 
> You wrote, *As a LinkedIn member, I would delete and ignore any moron that contacted me about another members marriage, sex life or affairs. *
> 
> That's fine, part of the effect of exposure is psychological, the OM does not know who has read the message and how it has changed their view of him. Some number of the message recipients will have been cheated on and their estimation of OM will be reduced.
> 
> Tamat


Except that LinkedIn is not an appropriate venue for this type of communication, period.


----------



## 3putt

LonelyinLove said:


> Except that LinkedIn is not an appropriate venue for this type of communication, period.


They opened the door to this kind of exposure when they chose to have a workplace affair.

Tough sh!t !


----------



## LonelyinLove

3putt said:


> They opened the door to this kind of exposure when they chose to have a workplace affair.
> 
> Tough sh!t !


You miss my point...

I don't care in the least that "you, they, whoever" has marriage issues...I don't want this crap in MY LinkedIn Inbox.


----------



## 3putt

LonelyinLove said:


> You miss my point...
> 
> I don't care in the least that "you, they, whoever" has marriage issues...I don't want this crap in MY LinkedIn Inbox.


Fine.....delete.


----------



## jb02157

I think that while contacting HR of ther company might sound like a great idea, it could get you into serious trouble, most definitely a lawsuit from both her and her boss. Just divorce her and try as much as you can for full custody of your sons. Unfortunately, women almost always get custody of their children irregardless of the circumstances.


----------



## LonelyinLove

3putt said:


> Fine.....delete.


You are still missing the point.

Just because there is a workplace affair (and probably most co-workers know anyway, I know of several over the years, and no I won't out either party or discuss it with their spouses, my relationship is purely work related), does not give the spouse the right to pull everyone else into the family drama.

You leave the bystanders out of it. LinkedIn has a purpose, and marital retaliation isn't one of them.

I shouldn't have to delete because it shouldn't be there.

It does make me think that the person blowing up LinkedIn with the family drama, if they are that immature, it might explain the affair. Doesn't make it right, but it might explain it.


----------



## 3putt

LonelyinLove said:


> You are still missing the point.
> 
> Just because there is a workplace affair (and probably most co-workers know anyway, I know of several over the years, and no I won't out either party or discuss it with their spouses, my relationship is purely work related), does not give the spouse the right to pull everyone else into the family drama.
> 
> You leave the bystanders out of it. LinkedIn has a purpose, and marital retaliation isn't one of them.
> 
> I shouldn't have to delete because it shouldn't be there.
> 
> It does make me think that the person blowing up LinkedIn with the family drama, if they are that immature, it might explain the affair. Doesn't make it right, but it might explain it.


Do you always make it a habit of worrying about things you have absolutely no control over?

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure where all this LinkedIn stuff is coming from anyway. I'm quite sure I missed how it came into play. Most around here advise to expose only to those that are directly affected: HR, legal depts., VPs, immediate supervisors, etc.


----------



## convert

I will say that the Job or workplace have a purpose too and it is not for extramarital affairs.
and if exposure is needed to *try and* *save the marriage* the HR department is the better choice for exposure.

There has been a few that have used LinkedIn for contacting OM/OW to continue the affair and If OM/OW is on linkedIn if the BS wants to use that avenue for exposure more to them especially if it is legal.


----------



## Clay2013

Yea I doubt one person being pissed off they received a email is going to change the way people use communicators on these site. 

Maybe they should not have cheated in the first place and this would never have happen at all. 

I personally am all for exposing people and honestly it should be tied to there social security number and on a government web site. Why not have the ability to check on someones past just like a credit report or a sex offender list. 

lol 

Just my two cents.

Clay


----------



## LonelyinLove

3putt said:


> Do you always make it a habit of worrying about things you have absolutely no control over?
> 
> Frankly, I'm not entirely sure where all this LinkedIn stuff is coming from anyway. I'm quite sure I missed how it came into play. Most around here advise to expose only to those that are directly affected: HR, legal depts., VPs, immediate supervisors, etc.


Someone suggested emailing an exposure to all the WS's linked in contacts.

I'm not worried about it at all. I do think folks better think twice before involving the workplace.

Just because you can't keep your Sig Other interested at home is no reason to inflict your issues on people in the workplace. Just because your Sig Other is a cheating creep is also not my problem if they are doing their job at work. 

I do not care, and I do not want to know. 

All of this "exposure" advice is going to get someone hurt, fired, sued, or dead one of these days. 

A marriage breach is hard enough without this BS advice, and it is mostly based in retaliation, not a desire to fix the marriage.


----------



## 3putt

LonelyinLove said:


> Someone suggested emailing an exposure to all the WS's linked in contacts.
> 
> I'm not worried about it at all. I do think folks better think twice before involving the workplace.
> 
> Just because you can't keep your Sig Other interested at home is no reason to inflict your issues on people in the workplace. Just because your Sig Other is a cheating creep is also not my problem if they are doing their job at work.
> 
> I do not care, and I do not want to know.
> 
> All of this "exposure" advice is going to get someone hurt, fired, sued, or dead one of these days.
> 
> A marriage breach is hard enough without this BS advice, and it is mostly based in retaliation, not a desire to fix the marriage.


Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. It is not retaliation based. It is designed only to kill the affair in the workplace so that an attempt at recovery can be made. That can never occur if the WS and the OM/W are still working together.

Period.

Oh, if they get fired or sued, then it's on them, not the one that exposed. Never get laid where you get paid! And I have yet to see one get killed or beat up over it, although I certainly do feel a good old fashioned ass whippin' is in order a lot of times.


----------



## Nucking Futs

jb02157 said:


> I think that while contacting HR of ther company might sound like a great idea, it could get you into serious trouble, most definitely a lawsuit from both her and her boss. Just divorce her and try as much as you can for full custody of your sons. Unfortunately, women almost always get custody of their children irregardless of the circumstances.


Getting sued for something like this is a dream scenario. No better way to make details of the affair become public record.

Let 'em sue. Depose everyone they work with to see what they know. Subpoena their work communications from their employer.


----------



## 3putt

Nucking Futs said:


> Getting sued for something like this is a dream scenario. No better way to make details of the affair become public record.
> 
> Let 'em sue. Depose everyone they work with to see what they know. Subpoena their work communications from their employer.


Ditto.


----------



## sidney2718

Clay2013 said:


> Yea I doubt one person being pissed off they received a email is going to change the way people use communicators on these site.
> 
> Maybe they should not have cheated in the first place and this would never have happen at all.
> 
> I personally am all for exposing people and honestly it should be tied to there social security number and on a government web site. Why not have the ability to check on someones past just like a credit report or a sex offender list.
> 
> lol
> 
> Just my two cents.
> 
> Clay


Because you could be "exposed" by any idiot with access to the internet. Anyone can make false charges. I'd be very careful about your suggestion.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Unless you are military, or a small family or partner based corporation, an affair is not illegal. In most cases it is not even an issue, like it or not. I know for a fact that my employer would not care at all about a romance between co-workers, as long as the job gets done.

A business is not about policing it's employees private lives, it's about making profits. 

These "exposure" plans are crazy, and from observing some of the biggest cheerleaders of this process, it most certainly is revenge motivated.

Edited to add...these days, who cares if someone had an affair? You think attaching that data to someone's public record will ruin their lives? LOL. That used to be the case for unwed mothers, now they are the majority.


----------



## Nucking Futs

LonelyinLove said:


> Unless you are military, or a small family or partner based corporation, an affair is not illegal. In most cases it is not even an issue, like it or not. * I know for a fact that my employer would not care at all about a romance between co-workers, as long as the job gets done.*
> 
> A business is not about policing it's employees private lives, it's about making profits.
> 
> These "exposure" plans are crazy, and from observing some of the biggest cheerleaders of this process, it most certainly is revenge motivated.
> 
> Edited to add...these days, who cares if someone had an affair? You think attaching that data to someone's public record will ruin their lives? LOL. That used to be the case for unwed mothers, now they are the majority.


This attitude may last until a crazy BS comes through the door shooting.


----------



## Dyokemm

Nucking Futs said:


> This attitude may last until a crazy BS comes through the door shooting.


Or they get slapped by a legal suit from other employees claiming bias and preference from the superior towards his/her AP.

I think a city official in Ohio got her A exposed this way (if I'm remembering the details right)....her co-workers filed suit claiming she got preferential treatment and promotion from the mayor....her AP.

Almost every corporation or organization that I have ever worked for, heard of through friends/family who work there, or all the corporations my dad dealt with as a union rep had strict policies on co-worker relationships and A's, especially superior/subordinate ones, for this reason alone.

It almost invariable ends with the superior getting immediately sh*tcanned.

Rarely is the subordinate immediately fired though....the companies are too afraid of a sexual harassment suit where the subordinate AP claims they felt pressured or forced into the A.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Nucking Futs said:


> This attitude may last until a crazy BS comes through the door shooting.


And you think calling HR or spamming LinkedIn will deflect that?

If the BS is that nuts, it goes a long way in explaining why they are a BS.


----------



## Nucking Futs

LonelyinLove said:


> And you think calling HR or spamming LinkedIn will deflect that?
> 
> If the BS is that nuts, it goes a long way in explaining why they are a BS.


Not at all. I was commenting on your companies lack of a policy to handle these situations, not on what the op should do.

As far as the crazy BS being the excuse for the affair, if you knew your husband would start shooting if he found out you were sleeping around would you be dumb enough to do it anyway?


----------



## Dyokemm

LonelyinLove said:


> And you think calling HR or spamming LinkedIn will deflect that?
> 
> If the BS is that nuts, it goes a long way in explaining why they are a BS.


I don't think this is in any way a sign of why a person is a BS.

If anything, if a WS is aware of the out of control anger and instability that their BS might potentially show.....then it is a sign that the WS either has a deathwish or is incredibly stupid and nuts themselves to even contemplate having an A that might set off the unstable partner, rather than just filing for D and getting away from such a potentially dangerous person.

And if its not a known quality in the BS...either the WS is unaware that their BS is this unstable, or the otherwise normal BS 'snaps' under the tremendous pain and stress of discovering the A.....well then it CAN'T have been a reason why the WS chose to become a traitor....because it was UNKNOWN.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Nucking Futs said:


> Not at all. I was commenti
> 
> ng on your companies lack of a policy to handle these situations, not on what the op should do.
> 
> As far as the crazy BS being the excuse for the affair, if you knew your husband would start shooting if he found out you were sleeping around would you be dumb enough to do it anyway?


Why should a company have a policy on an activity that is not illegal?

I wouldn't be dumb enough to have a crazy husband intent on killing people. As far as that goes, what's to keep someone fired or exposed at work from going off shooting as well?


----------



## Nucking Futs

LonelyinLove said:


> Why should a company have a policy on an activity that is not illegal?


I've worked for companies that had policies about lots of things that weren't legal issues. Breaks, vacation availability, phone etiquette, etc. Does your company really only have policies about illegal activities? Really?



LonelyinLove said:


> I wouldn't be dumb enough to have a crazy husband intent on killing people.


I see those boots in your avatar are good for skipping away from a question you don't want to answer.


----------



## Dyokemm

LonelyinLove said:


> Why should a company have a policy on an activity that is not illegal?
> 
> I wouldn't be dumb enough to have a crazy husband intent on killing people.


Companies have such policies to protect themselves from lawsuits.

Having a disgruntled subordinate AP file a sexual harassment lawsuit, or other employees file suit claiming bias/preference from a superior towards their subordinate AP.

In fact, company policies don't just cover A's.....they cover ANY type of employee relationship, even consensual ones between single employees.

In the corporations my dad dealt with (grocery stores), if two employees of EQUAL seniority started dating....it was MANDATORY that one of them transfer to another store or quit immediately for this very reason.

And in a superior/subordinate relationship, the superior was invariably demoted or fired.

Companies just don't want the legal liability.

As you yourself pointed out....they want to focus on making profits.

Not dealing with lawsuits.


----------



## GusPolinski

LonelyinLove said:


> And you think calling HR or spamming LinkedIn will deflect that?
> 
> *If the BS is that nuts, it goes a long way in explaining why they are a BS.*


Rampant generalizations FTW.

I'd point out to anyone too ready to take this as gospel that infidelity has a tendency to hit perfectly sane people square in the face w/ a truckload of crazy.

That said, I do agree w/ some of the statements made against _over_-exposure.

The aim of exposure should be to end an on-going affair so that reconciliation can begin while simultaneously -- and to the degree possible -- NOT doing so much damage that the marriage can't be recovered. You have to balance these goals. Be strategic. Expose in tiers. Start w/ the AP's spouse, followed immediately by your own family, the WS's family, and close friends. If that doesn't do the trick, take the exposure out a bit; if you happen to be a church-going family, expose to your church leadership. If the AP happens to be a member of the same congregation, make sure that the AP's identity is disclosed as well. With respect to a workplace exposure, I'd save that for last, especially since the WS losing his or her job could come back to bite the BS in the butt should things take a turn toward divorce. But if the BS has gone through all of this, and the affair is still on-going, there's really no point in taking exposure out further. Just file and move on.

And using LinkedIn to flood the inboxes of WS's and/or AP's professional contacts? That's just cray cray, and it will accomplish little more than undermining ALL of your goals.

Well... unless, of course, your goal is retribution by way of letting as many people as possible in on the probably-not-all-that-well-guarded-secret that your spouse is a shameless slore.

Just know this, though... your rep is likely to take a larger hit than his or her already-tarnished rep.


----------



## GusPolinski

LonelyinLove said:


> Why should a company have a policy on an activity that is not illegal?
> 
> I wouldn't be dumb enough to have a crazy husband intent on killing people. As far as that goes, what's to keep someone fired or exposed at work from going off shooting as well?


Tons of companies have rules against supervisor/employee fraternization, and for tons of reasons, and I'd think that chief among them would be the potential for sexual harassment lawsuits to arise out of "misunderstandings".


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Tons of companies have rules against supervisor/employee fraternization, and for tons of reasons, and I'd think that chief among them would be the potential for sexual harassment lawsuits to arise out of "misunderstandings".


One of our clients has a ZERO fraternization policy.
Two totally single people were let go.

It's a major medical malpractice insurance company.


----------



## Youngster

LonelyinLove said:


> Unless you are military, or a small family or partner based corporation, an affair is not illegal. In most cases it is not even an issue, like it or not. I know for a fact that my employer would not care at all about a romance between co-workers, as long as the job gets done.
> 
> A business is not about policing it's employees private lives, it's about making profits.
> 
> These "exposure" plans are crazy, and from observing some of the biggest cheerleaders of this process, it most certainly is revenge motivated.
> 
> Edited to add...these days, who cares if someone had an affair? You think attaching that data to someone's public record will ruin their lives? LOL. That used to be the case for unwed mothers, now they are the majority.


Most companies have a code of conduct policy. My company fired a supervisor and subordinate for having an inappropriate relationship. Neither were married, it wasn't an affair situation, but it violated the companies code of conduct policy.

A number of years ago when I worked at a different company, there were 2 engineers in the same group who were dating(they were peers so there was no violation of the code of conduct policy). The company forced one of the engineers to transfer to a different group. Because two of the team members were dating, the dynamics of the group changed. The other engineers in the group complained that it impacted their job and management stepped in.

Companies are out to make money. That's why most companies do not tolerate relationships between co-workers. Even ignoring lawsuits/sexual harassment claims/etc, it's bad for the co-workers. I had a difficult time working with the two engineers who were dating. I was trying to concentrate on work and these two lovebirds were making googley eyes at each other.....I wanted to slap them! Both of the examples above aren't mom and pop shops either, they're Fortune 50 companies.


----------



## Youngster

GusPolinski said:


> Tons of companies have rules against supervisor/employee fraternization, and for tons of reasons, and I'd think that chief among them would be the potential for sexual harassment lawsuits to arise out of "misunderstandings".


In this circumstance the big problem is the co-workers. Who gets the big raise /promotion if there is a relationship between a supervisor and employee A? Employees B, C, D and E aren't going to be to happy when they see employee A getting unfairly promoted/compensated.


----------



## Chaparral

LonelyinLove said:


> Why should a company have a policy on an activity that is not illegal?
> 
> I wouldn't be dumb enough to have a crazy husband intent on killing people. As far as that goes, what's to keep someone fired or exposed at work from going off shooting as well?


Is t the posom opening is employer up for a sexual harrasment suit. Ive known many cases where people have been fired for workplace affairs.


----------



## Clay2013

sidney2718 said:


> Because you could be "exposed" by any idiot with access to the internet. Anyone can make false charges. I'd be very careful about your suggestion.


I work in IT. If you think your not already exposed by people on the internet then you should rethink that. 

I understand your concern about a site like that but I am sure there could be some safe guards put in place. 

I still feel its something that could be worked on. 


C


----------



## Youngster

Clay2013 said:


> I work in IT. If you think your not already exposed by people on the internet then you should rethink that.
> 
> I understand your concern about a site like that but I am sure there could be some safe guards put in place.
> 
> I still feel its something that could be worked on.
> 
> 
> C


I work in the networking industry. The company I'm with has some specialized applications that do deep packet inspection(you could probably guess my company).

Anyway, we have a great demo that shows every username/account on the companies network. In the application, if you click on a username you can see every web address that person has visited. Additionally you can look at pie charts that show the users activity on the network(i.e. how often they visit certain web sites/etc). 

So some advice to folks out there......not only do IT folks know what websites you're visiting, they also know how often you're visiting them! They also know if you're downloading/transferring large files on the network(and how often you're doing it)! Additionally, all this information is time-stamped........so make sure you only visit TAM during lunch!


----------



## cbnero

I could have blown my XW career straight to the moon by exposing to her work. I didnt. I used it as leverage and kept everything. Plus no child support and no alimony. She didn't even get a lawyer.

I didn't read all the posts so I apologize if this is a moot point, but I suggest you let her know you have your finger on the nuclear trigger and subtly imply that things are going your way or the nuke gets launched. It's called winning. F her.


----------



## Rookie4

There is one and ONLY one thing that has any bearing on any of these elaborate disclosure scenarios.........PROOF. If you cannot prove it, it doesn't matter who you tell or what you say, it's all bullsh*t. Without PROOF. No company is going to discipline an employee without it. And no HR person is going to take YOUR word for it. If you don't have proof......you got nothing at all.


----------



## Dyokemm

Rookie4 said:


> There is one and ONLY one thing that has any bearing on any of these elaborate disclosure scenarios.........PROOF. If you cannot prove it, it doesn't matter who you tell or what you say, it's all bullsh*t. Without PROOF. No company is going to discipline an employee without it. And no HR person is going to take YOUR word for it. If you don't have proof......you got nothing at all.


This is true.

But if he told HR he caught them in a car together and POSOM ran off and he knows they were communicating through work e-mails after being confronted.....they will interview both of them and follow through and check company servers for e-mails.

And if the emails contain proof of the A, which I would bet they do since WW desperately tried to delete them before allowing her BH to see when confronted, then POSOM is probably toast.

WW, as the subordinate, will probably be disciplined but not fired immediately ( for legal reasons I mentioned in previous posts).


----------



## Rookie4

Dyokemm said:


> This is true.
> 
> But if he told HR he caught them in a car together and POSOM ran off and he knows they were communicating through work e-mails after being confronted.....they will interview both of them and follow through and check company servers for e-mails.
> 
> And if the emails contain proof of the A, which I would bet they do since WW desperately tried to delete them before allowing her BH to see when confronted, then POSOM is probably toast.
> 
> WW, as the subordinate, will probably be disciplined but not fired immediately ( for legal reasons I mentioned in previous posts).


Nothing you have described constitutes proof. seeing them in the car...it's his word against theirs, that anything happened.......not proof. He KNOWS that they were E-mailing? How would he know this? Again...not proof of anything . This OP has not one shred of actual proof, and companies don't discipline employees on hunches.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Rookie4 said:


> Nothing you have described constitutes proof. seeing them in the car...it's his word against theirs, that anything happened.......not proof. He KNOWS that they were E-mailing? How would he know this? Again...not proof of anything . This OP has not one shred of actual proof, and companies don't discipline employees on hunches.


They don't "discipline employees on hunches" but they do investigate.


----------



## ThePheonix

LonelyinLove said:


> I wouldn't be dumb enough to have a crazy husband intent on killing people. As far as that goes, what's to keep someone fired or exposed at work from going off shooting as well?


Youre right. That door swings both ways. I know of one incident where the OM, upon exposure to his wife and his employer, distributed hidden camera videos to the BH.s co-workers, and neighbors as well a published them on you porn.
Exposure to break up a romance is one thing. To use it to continue to hound your spouses love interest as payback for what your spouse willingly offered and maybe instigated may bite you in the azz.


----------



## Youngster

Rookie4 said:


> There is one and ONLY one thing that has any bearing on any of these elaborate disclosure scenarios.........PROOF. If you cannot prove it, it doesn't matter who you tell or what you say, it's all bullsh*t. Without PROOF. No company is going to discipline an employee without it. And no HR person is going to take YOUR word for it. If you don't have proof......you got nothing at all.


So tell me, if someone claims sexual harassment the company needs proof to investigate?


----------



## sparrow555

Rookie4 said:


> There is one and ONLY one thing that has any bearing on any of these elaborate disclosure scenarios.........PROOF. If you cannot prove it, it doesn't matter who you tell or what you say, it's all bullsh*t. Without PROOF. No company is going to discipline an employee without it. And no HR person is going to take YOUR word for it. If you don't have proof......you got nothing at all.



I presume you do not work in an IT field or a major company to make that statement.

Company will make their own investigations in case of complaint from a former spouse of an employee. He need not provide any proof. Depending on the industry they work in, the information the company saves about an employee can be very extensive. Files and mails are regularly backed up. And affairs are looked down upon if not not for the morality, then atleast for legal liabilities and sexual harassment lawsuits[A terminated employee can sue the company for unfair dismissal because his manager was boinking his less efficient co-worker].


----------



## Rookie4

Nucking Futs said:


> They don't "discipline employees on hunches" but they do investigate.


 They CAN investigate, but not always. They are much more concerned about liability than they are about marital fidelity.


----------



## Rookie4

sparrow555 said:


> I presume you do not work in an IT field or a major company to make that statement.
> 
> Company will make their own investigations in case of complaint from a former spouse of an employee. He need not provide any proof. Depending on the industry they work in, the information the company saves about an employee can be very extensive. Files and mails are regularly backed up. And affairs are looked down upon if not not for the morality, then atleast for legal liabilities and sexual harassment lawsuits[A terminated employee can sue the company for unfair dismissal because his manager was boinking his less efficient co-worker].


 My company is one of the 5 largest ones in it's field (or was, I'm retired now:smile2 Companies will not investigate a complaint if they feel that they are not liable. That is the long and the short of it. Now if this was an actual crime, the company would investigate and also call in the appropriate Law Enforcement Agency. Personal issues will only be considered if there is a possible violation of company policy, or there is a liability question, and for no other reason. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. If you were to enter a notation in an employee's file that they were suspected of infidelity, you would be liable, without ironclad proof. It is harassment to accuse an employee of wrongdoing, without proof.


----------



## tom67

Rookie4 said:


> My company is one of the 5 largest ones in it's field (or was, I'm retired now:smile2 Companies will not investigate a complaint if they feel that they are not liable. That is the long and the short of it. Now if this was an actual crime, the company would investigate and also call in the appropriate Law Enforcement Agency. Personal issues will only be considered if there is a possible violation of company policy, or there is a liability question, and for no other reason. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. If you were to enter a notation in an employee's file that they were suspected of infidelity, you would be liable, without ironclad proof. It is harassment to accuse an employee of wrongdoing, without proof.


It is such a PC world now it is insane.
and I'm close but not retired.:smile2:


----------



## Rookie4

Youngster said:


> So tell me, if someone claims sexual harassment the company needs proof to investigate?


There has to be evidence that the harassment occurred. You do not open a formal investigation on hearsay.
Now, having said this, and also because I was a very good supervisor, I might investigate it "informally" by having a private interview with both parties. If I find that it is a "he said, she said " thing, it will go no farther, but I would , in all likelihood separate the two individuals, and give them a warning. If I find that there is evidence that a company policy was violated, then I will take more serious action.


----------



## The Middleman

Rookie4 said:


> There has to be evidence that the harassment occurred. You do not open a formal investigation on hearsay.


I've seen a very high level guy in a large audit firm lose his partnership over hearsay.


----------



## sparrow555

Rookie4 said:


> My company is one of the 5 largest ones in it's field (or was, I'm retired now:smile2 Companies will not investigate a complaint if they feel that they are not liable. That is the long and the short of it. Now if this was an actual crime, the company would investigate and also call in the appropriate Law Enforcement Agency. Personal issues will only be considered if there is a possible violation of company policy, or there is a liability question, and for no other reason. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. If you were to enter a notation in an employee's file that they were suspected of infidelity, you would be liable, without ironclad proof. It is harassment to accuse an employee of wrongdoing, without proof.


Are you spending your retirement by being unbearable and self righteous on online forums? Your frog in the well experience is not all there is to it. 



> I might investigate it "informally" by having a private interview with both parties. If I find that it is a "he said, she said " thing, it will go no farther, but I would , in all likelihood separate the two individuals, and give them a warning. If I find that there is evidence that a company policy was violated, then I will take more serious action.


I feel stupid for even trying to engage you at this point.


----------



## Rookie4

sparrow555 said:


> Are you spending your retirement by being unbearable and self righteous on online forums? Your frog in the well experience is not all there is to it.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel stupid for even trying to engage you at this point.


You said it....I didn't. If you have an issue with me, take it up with the mods. I could make rude posts, just like you.....but I'm better than that, and apparently you too.


----------



## Rookie4

The Middleman said:


> I've seen a very high level guy in a large audit firm lose his partnership over hearsay.


No, I think not.


----------



## Youngster

Rookie4 said:


> There has to be evidence that the harassment occurred. You do not open a formal investigation on hearsay.
> Now, having said this, and also because I was a very good supervisor, I might investigate it "informally" by having a private interview with both parties. If I find that it is a "he said, she said " thing, it will go no farther, but I would , in all likelihood separate the two individuals, and give them a warning. If I find that there is evidence that a company policy was violated, then I will take more serious action.


No, there doesn't need to be proof all there needs to be is a complaint filed. How often does sexual harassment occur without a witness? All the time, that's why there doesn't need to be proof. 

Employers are required, by FEDERAL LAW to investigate any and all claims sexual harassment. If they don't investigate all claims within a certain timeframe they are liable and in many states subject to penalties.

This is really basic stuff. If you work in HR you should understand this.


----------



## GusPolinski

Youngster said:


> No, there doesn't need to be proof all there needs to be is a complaint filed. How often does sexual harassment occur without a witness? All the time, that's why there doesn't need to be proof.
> 
> Employers are required, by FEDERAL LAW to investigate any and all claims sexual harassment. If they don't investigate all claims within a certain timeframe they are liable and in many states subject to penalties.
> 
> This is really basic stuff. If you work in HR you should understand this.


Seems like there would be a difference between an _*employee*_ going to HR w/ claims of sexual harassment and an _*employee's spouse*_ going to HR w/ claims of whatever.


----------



## Youngster

GusPolinski said:


> Seems like there would be a difference between an _*employee*_ going to HR w/ claims of sexual harassment and an _*employee's spouse*_ going to HR w/ claims of whatever.


Agreed. I was merely addressing Rookies point that HR needs proof to investigate any incident. 

In cases such as sexual harassment, once a claim is filed, the company is required by law to investigate. His claim that there needs to be evidence to investigate is blatantly false.

From my experience, if the OP contacted HR with or without proof, I believe they would investigate the matter since it is between a supervisor and subordinate. If the WW and OM were peers I believe the company would do nothing.


----------



## cbnero

Ultimately she isn't worth worrying about. Why even waste your time thinking about her?

You have great negotiating position for the divorce and you are a fool not to use it. Obviously your STBX cares nothing for you and respects you even less. 

Get the D done now and use the leverage. Then immediately forget all about her and move on with your life. Forgive her so you don't get eaten up with bitterness. And focus on the blessings you do have in your life and be happy. Not difficult. Right now you sound like this is consuming which I'd not healthy.


----------



## GusPolinski

cbnero said:


> Ultimately she isn't worth worrying about. Why even waste your time thinking about her?
> 
> You have great negotiating position for the divorce and you are a fool not to use it. Obviously your STBX cares nothing for you and respects you even less.
> 
> Get the D done now and use the leverage. Then immediately forget all about her and move on with your life. Forgive her so you don't get eaten up with bitterness. And focus on the blessings you do have in your life and be happy. Not difficult. Right now you sound like this is consuming which I'd not healthy.


IIRC, he did wind up exposing to her job and they're already divorced.


----------



## GusPolinski

Youngster said:


> Agreed. I was merely addressing Rookies point that HR needs proof to investigate any incident.
> 
> In cases such as sexual harassment, once a claim is filed, the company is required by law to investigate. His claim that there needs to be evidence to investigate is blatantly false.
> 
> From my experience, if the OP contacted HR with or without proof, I believe they would investigate the matter since it is between a supervisor and subordinate. If the WW and OM were peers I believe the company would do nothing.


But is an employee's spouse -- technically speaking -- "allowed" to report sexual harassment? Wouldn't such a claim have to come from the employee and not his or her spouse?


----------



## Youngster

GusPolinski said:


> But is an employee's spouse -- technically speaking -- "allowed" to report sexual harassment? Wouldn't such a claim have to come from the employee and not his or her spouse?


*There has to be evidence that the harassment occurred.* You do not open a formal investigation on hearsay.
Now, having said this, and also because I was a very good supervisor, I might investigate it "informally" by having a private interview with both parties. If I find that it is a "he said, she said " thing, it will go no farther, but I would , in all likelihood separate the two individuals, and give them a warning. If I find that there is evidence that a company policy was violated, then I will take more serious action.

My response was really to address the above statement. 

A third party can file a sexual harassment claim(imagine if you saw a manager grab a subordinates boob) and most companies require their employees to report harassment. This is because many sexual harassment victims are too scared, for themselves or their job, to file a claim. 

I'm not sure if the third party needs to be an employee of the company to file a claim, but I would guess that any third party's can file a claim. I am an engineer(was a manager for a while) and am not intimately familiar with the details of the law(although I can tell you what my company would do).


----------



## The Middleman

Rookie4 said:


> No, I think not.


Obviously, I can't mention the firm (Big 4 accounting firm) or the individual. The individual involved gave me the account directly, so I only got his side of the story. Maybe hearsay is not the right word but it was certainly he said / she said. No conclusive proof of any issues. It was easier to get rid of him than to have to deal with her. My final conclusion is that big companies don't want to deal with any of this sh!t and will take the easiest route out, even if it isn't necessarily the cheapest.


----------



## sparrow555

Rookie4 said:


> You said it....I didn't. If you have an issue with me, take it up with the mods. I could make rude posts, just like you.....but I'm better than that, and apparently you too.


----------



## Rookie4

The Middleman said:


> Obviously, I can't mention the firm (Big 4 accounting firm) or the individual. The individual involved gave me the account directly, so I only got his side of the story. Maybe hearsay is not the right word but it was certainly he said / she said. No conclusive proof of any issues. It was easier to get rid of him than to have to deal with her. My final conclusion is that big companies don't want to deal with any of this sh!t and will take the easiest route out, even if it isn't necessarily the cheapest.


No...companies will take the LEGALLY CORRECT way out, regardless of which is cheaper/more expensive or easier/more difficult. The key is liability. You have to be certain that whichever route you choose, is the one you won't get sued on. Companies don't really want to know anything about their employees personal lives, and are very reluctant to involve themselves in it.


----------



## Rookie4

Youngster said:


> *There has to be evidence that the harassment occurred.* You do not open a formal investigation on hearsay.
> Now, having said this, and also because I was a very good supervisor, I might investigate it "informally" by having a private interview with both parties. If I find that it is a "he said, she said " thing, it will go no farther, but I would , in all likelihood separate the two individuals, and give them a warning. If I find that there is evidence that a company policy was violated, then I will take more serious action.
> 
> My response was really to address the above statement.
> 
> A third party can file a sexual harassment claim(imagine if you saw a manager grab a subordinates boob) and most companies require their employees to report harassment. This is because many sexual harassment victims are too scared, for themselves or their job, to file a claim.
> 
> I'm not sure if the third party needs to be an employee of the company to file a claim, but I would guess that any third party's can file a claim. I am an engineer(was a manager for a while) and am not intimately familiar with the details of the law(although I can tell you what my company would do).


Apples and Oranges. Touching or grabbing another persons body isn't harassment, it is the crime of ASSAULT. You don't need to file a claim....you call the police. No Corporation will tolerate such things. This is a far cry from an unsubstantiated, secondhand rumor of a possible extramarital affair. Not even in the same universe.


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> But is an employee's spouse -- technically speaking -- "allowed" to report sexual harassment? Wouldn't such a claim have to come from the employee and not his or her spouse?


He can.......if it is harassment. An extramarital affair might or might not even BE harassment. It might still be against company policy, even so. That is why I cautioned the OP. This question is a mine field, and most companies will not get involved in it, if it is at all possible to avoid doing so. If they do get involved, you can be sure that Management, IT, the Legal dept, and HR will do what is in the best interests of the company.


----------



## Youngster

Rookie4 said:


> Apples and Oranges. Touching or grabbing another persons body isn't harassment, it is the crime of ASSAULT. You don't need to file a claim....you call the police. No Corporation will tolerate such things. This is a far cry from an unsubstantiated, secondhand rumor of a possible extramarital affair. Not even in the same universe.


You are correct, I should have said "if you witnessed sexual harassment" not "if you witnessed grabbing" The whole point I was and am making is that there doesn't need to be evidence(which you stated). Nearly all of the time there is no evidence!


----------



## Chaparral

Yet another junk yard dog, repetitive, navel gazing, circular thread jack.


----------



## cbnero

GusPolinski said:


> IIRC, he did wind up exposing to her job and they're already divorced.


Lol thanks for letting me know. Why is anyone even talking about this then? Who cares?


----------



## Rookie4

Youngster said:


> Agreed. I was merely addressing Rookies point that HR needs proof to investigate any incident.
> 
> In cases such as sexual harassment, once a claim is filed, the company is required by law to investigate. His claim that there needs to be evidence to investigate is blatantly false.
> 
> From my experience, if the OP contacted HR with or without proof, I believe they would investigate the matter since it is between a supervisor and subordinate. If the WW and OM were peers I believe the company would do nothing.


You need to pay attention. we aren't talking about harassment, we are talking about a possible extramarital affair, which may, or may not be harassment.


----------



## tom67

Rookie4 said:


> You need to pay attention. we aren't talking about harassment, we are talking about a possible extramarital affair, which may, or may not be harassment.


Bigger companies to avoid the expense of litigation and other employees possibly suing they more than likely terminate both just to wash their hands and damage control.


----------



## Rookie4

Youngster said:


> Agreed. I was merely addressing Rookies point that HR needs proof to investigate any incident.
> 
> In cases such as sexual harassment, once a claim is filed, the company is required by law to investigate. His claim that there needs to be evidence to investigate is blatantly false.
> 
> From my experience, if the OP contacted HR with or without proof, I believe they would investigate the matter since it is between a supervisor and subordinate. If the WW and OM were peers I believe the company would do nothing.


This is rubbish. If "youngster" knew as much as he claims, he would know that an internal investigation cannot be started by an outside source. The spouse can ASK that it be investigated, but the company will, in almost all cases, be EXTREMELY reluctant to do so, unless there is judged to be a possible violation of the law or company policy. Corporations are not in the business of monitoring the private lives of their employees. Simple as that.


----------



## Rookie4

tom67 said:


> Bigger companies to avoid the expense of litigation and other employees possibly suing they more than likely terminate both just to wash their hands and damage control.


No, wrongful dismissal will get you litigated just as easily as the supposed affair would.


----------



## tom67

Rookie4 said:


> No, wrongful dismissal will get you litigated just as easily as the supposed affair would.


:iagree:
Yep it's called paid administrative leave until the employer gets their legal ducks in a row to either fire or not.


----------



## Rookie4

Chaparral said:


> Yet another junk yard dog, repetitive, navel gazing, circular thread jack.


Then why are you here and commenting? I don't recall anyone asking you.


----------



## Youngster

Rookie4 said:


> This is rubbish. If "youngster" knew as much as he claims, he would know that an internal investigation cannot be started by an outside source. The spouse can ASK that it be investigated, but the company will, in almost all cases, be EXTREMELY reluctant to do so, unless there is judged to be a possible violation of the law or company policy. Corporations are not in the business of monitoring the private lives of their employees. Simple as that.


An internal investigation most definitely can. What about contactors, sales people, vendors? You clearly have no idea what you're taking about. You aren't in HR, I'd be surprised if you were the receptionist!


----------



## Rookie4

Workplace affairs are a very important corporate issue. The manner in which they are dealt with, can and does have far reaching consequences. I would like to thank the OP for coming here and bringing it to our attention. I wish him well.


----------



## Youngster

And most real companies allow anonymous reporting of violations of the companies Code of Conduct policy. Do you understand what anonymous means? Any party, third or otherwise.

Where do you work, Sal's pizza?


----------



## Rookie4

Youngster said:


> An internal investigation most definitely can. What about contactors, sales people, vendors? You clearly have no idea what you're taking about. You aren't in HR, I'd be surprised if you were the receptionist!


Contactor, vendors and sales are CORPORATE LEVEL issues, NOT internal issues. You are clearly ignorant of the difference, therefore your posts are rubbish..


----------



## GusPolinski

ETA: @Satya, while searching for the above GIF, I found the perfect popcorn GIF for you...


----------



## naiveonedave

Rookie4 said:


> You need to pay attention. we aren't talking about harassment, we are talking about a possible extramarital affair, which may, or may not be harassment.


Meh, in my code of conduct training, this easily could be viewed as harrassment


----------



## Youngster

OK, against my better judgment I walked down to my HR representative, I know her so it wasn't too big of a deal. I asked about sexual harassment and Code of Conduct violations.

Her response was as follows (I'm obviously paraphrasing a little);

"In all companies, sexual harassment is a violation of that companies Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics policy. 
In MOST companies, a relationship between a supervisor/subordinate is a violation of the companies Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics policy{some companies do not specifically spell this out, as it can fall under the sexual harassment umbrella).

In either case all companies that she knows of allow ANYONE to report a Code of Conduct/Ethics violation. Some of the reasons for that is as follows;

1.	The company allows anonymous reporting of violations. If the reporting is anonymous, they obviously have no idea where the complaint came from.

2.	In our building, at any given time, there are over 100 individuals that are not employees. I was surprised at the 100 number and she said it’s actually much higher than that. Think; suppliers, contractors, customers, construction workers, cafeteria folks, cleaning crew, facilities workers, temp workers, IT folks, etc. In order to protect ALL of these people, the company ENCOURAGES reporting of violations of the Code of Conduct policy from anyone. Whether the complaint is filed anonymously or not it is treated exactly the same. The resulting correction/discipline that occurs will be different depending on whether the person in violation is an employee or not.

3.	Spouses and family members are specifically encouraged to report what they believe are ethical violations. Many employees are harassed(sexually or otherwise) at work and the only person they confide in is their spouse. If a spouse does not come forward, often violations will either never be reported or will continue for years.

4.	All complaints regarding violations of the Code of Conduct policy are handled EXACTLY THE SAME. Whether they are anonymous, employee driven, or third party driven. The reason for this is twofold. First, to ensure that the investigation is conducted fairly, in an un-biased manner. Second, too put as little pressure as possible on the individual who is reporting the violation. She said that when a complaint is received, the first thing they do is remove the reporting person's name from the paperwork(they replace it with a number) in order for the complaint to maintain anonymity.

5.	I asked again about the supervisor/subordinate relationship(didn’t say affair). She said that this definitely should be reported. In our company, in most companies, it’s a clear violation of the Code of Conduct/Ethics. Either way though, she said it is not for you or I to decide, it is the companies responsibility to investigate the matter. She said this is why she says to ALWAYS report any behavior that might be in question, because it is not our place to decide what is right/wrong. It is our responsibility to report any possible violation to the Code of Conduct policy, it is the companies responsibility to investigate said report/complaint." 

So there you have it, from an honest to goodness Fortune 500 HR person........then she asked me if I was going to file a complaint, ugh!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

LOL.

Are you guys still arguing with Rookie? Just stop. He NEVER worked in HR or retired in the early 90's before being PC and sexual harassment took off.

It's funny because not only do companies have anonymous employee reporting lines, numerous have outside lines for non-employee based reporting. 

But....But...But.....But.....anonymous outside non-employee tips cannot start an investigation on hearsay. 'Oh, let's not forget a BOSS.HER BOSS. Are you kidding me with this argument?
LOL.

Youngster, you should have asked the person how many anonymous tips they investigate, watched them look at you crazy and then laughed when they rolled their eyes. I worked in HR and it is bleeping ridiculous.


----------



## tom67

phillybeffandswiss said:


> LOL.
> 
> Are you guys still arguing with Rookie? Just stop. He NEVER worked in HR or retired in the early 90's before being PC and sexual harassment took off.
> 
> It's funny because not only do companies have anonymous employee reporting lines, numerous have outside lines for non-employee based reporting.
> 
> But....But...But.....But.....anonymous outside non-employee tips cannot start an investigation on hearsay. 'Oh, let's not forget a BOSS.HER BOSS. Are you kidding me with this argument?
> LOL.
> 
> Youngster, you should have asked the person how many anonymous tips they investigate, watched them look at you crazy and then laughed when they rolled their eyes. I worked in HR and it is bleeping ridiculous.


philly totally agree with you it is out of control.


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## 3putt

phillybeffandswiss said:


> LOL.
> 
> Are you guys still arguing with Rookie? Just stop. He NEVER worked in HR or retired in the early 90's before being PC and sexual harassment took off.
> 
> It's funny because not only do companies have anonymous employee reporting lines, numerous have outside lines for non-employee based reporting.
> 
> But....But...But.....But.....anonymous outside non-employee tips cannot start an investigation on hearsay. 'Oh, let's not forget a BOSS.HER BOSS. Are you kidding me with this argument?
> LOL.
> 
> Youngster, you should have asked the person how many anonymous tips they investigate, watched them look at you crazy and then laughed when they rolled their eyes. I worked in HR and it is bleeping ridiculous.


Rookie and his explanation of how things work:


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## Youngster

Sorry guys but one more thing I forgot to add.....

I asked her what happens if someone files a false complaint?

She said they get complaints all the time on which they take "no corrective action". 

Lots of stuff like;
Joe the sales guy took employees A,B,C out to lunch/dinner/sporting event but not employee D.
or
Someone borrowed the dolly from the lab because they were moving that weekend.
or
Sales guy bought something for a client. 
or
Employees were out drinking while on travel.

She said the vast majority of cases lead to "no corrective action taken". She said that they want people to come forward, as such, there is never any action taken against the person who filed the complaint. The only way the process works is if everyone feels safe to report violations. If there was action taken against the reporting person, then the process would fall apart.

She did say that they have seen cases of people making multiple complaints or of punitive complaints(not sure what she meant by that). In either case they still treat every submission the same throughout the process until the complaint is closed.


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## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> Rookie and his explanation of how things work:


LOL that kid looks like my nephew.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Youngster said:


> punitive complaints(not sure what she meant by that). In either case they still treat every submission the same throughout the process until the complaint is closed.


As a severe form of punishment. This is why I said ridiculous. In other words, you didn't give me a promotion and I report you. You didn't do something I wanted and I report you.

It is a form of retaliation with the potential of severe consequences. Sexual harassment or theft is pretty much instant termination if investigated and proven. In America, we all know about guilty until proven innocent. Well, in business it isn't a court of law. So, rumors can follow you around from company to company.


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## Youngster

phillybeffandswiss said:


> As a severe form of punishment. This is why I said ridiculous. In other words, you didn't give me a promotion and I report you. You didn't do something I wanted and I report you.
> 
> It is a form of retaliation with the potential of severe consequences. Sexual harassment or theft is pretty much instant termination if investigated and proven. In America, we all know about guilty until proven innocent. Well, in business it isn't a court of law. So, rumors can follow you around from company to company.


Ahhh, that makes sense.......Thanks!


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## Rookie4

Youngster said:


> OK, against my better judgment I walked down to my HR representative, I know her so it wasn't too big of a deal. I asked about sexual harassment and Code of Conduct violations.
> 
> Her response was as follows (I'm obviously paraphrasing a little);
> 
> "In all companies, sexual harassment is a violation of that companies Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics policy.
> In MOST companies, a relationship between a supervisor/subordinate is a violation of the companies Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics policy{some companies do not specifically spell this out, as it can fall under the sexual harassment umbrella).
> 
> In either case all companies that she knows of allow ANYONE to report a Code of Conduct/Ethics violation. Some of the reasons for that is as follows;
> 
> 1.	The company allows anonymous reporting of violations. If the reporting is anonymous, they obviously have no idea where the complaint came from.
> 
> 2.	In our building, at any given time, there are over 100 individuals that are not employees. I was surprised at the 100 number and she said it’s actually much higher than that. Think; suppliers, contractors, customers, construction workers, cafeteria folks, cleaning crew, facilities workers, temp workers, IT folks, etc. In order to protect ALL of these people, the company ENCOURAGES reporting of violations of the Code of Conduct policy from anyone. Whether the complaint is filed anonymously or not it is treated exactly the same. The resulting correction/discipline that occurs will be different depending on whether the person in violation is an employee or not.
> 
> 3.	Spouses and family members are specifically encouraged to report what they believe are ethical violations. Many employees are harassed(sexually or otherwise) at work and the only person they confide in is their spouse. If a spouse does not come forward, often violations will either never be reported or will continue for years.
> 
> 4.	All complaints regarding violations of the Code of Conduct policy are handled EXACTLY THE SAME. Whether they are anonymous, employee driven, or third party driven. The reason for this is twofold. First, to ensure that the investigation is conducted fairly, in an un-biased manner. Second, too put as little pressure as possible on the individual who is reporting the violation. She said that when a complaint is received, the first thing they do is remove the reporting person's name from the paperwork(they replace it with a number) in order for the complaint to maintain anonymity.
> 
> 5.	I asked again about the supervisor/subordinate relationship(didn’t say affair). She said that this definitely should be reported. In our company, in most companies, it’s a clear violation of the Code of Conduct/Ethics. Either way though, she said it is not for you or I to decide, it is the companies responsibility to investigate the matter. She said this is why she says to ALWAYS report any behavior that might be in question, because it is not our place to decide what is right/wrong. It is our responsibility to report any possible violation to the Code of Conduct policy, it is the companies responsibility to investigate said report/complaint."
> 
> So there you have it, from an honest to goodness Fortune 500 HR person........then she asked me if I was going to file a complaint, ugh!


Geez, I clearly stated that sexual harassment was an issue, what I also said is that an extramarital affair may or may not be considered sexual harassment BUT that it can also be a violation of company policy. In point of fact I said it before you did. I never, ever said that there was not a format for anonymous complaints. There again, you seen to have a serious problem understanding the language. what I said is that INTERNAL investigations cannot be started by an outside individual, the complaint HAS to be processed/ acted on by a company management official. You can report anything , but that does not mean it will be investigated, unless there is sufficient reason to do so. The idea that ALL complaints/reports are handled the same, is absolutely ludicrous. :laugh::laugh: Plus, the idea that several hundreds of non-employees can wander around the offices /work areas is too silly . In all of your vast experience have you ever seen a sign that says EMPLOYEES ONLY? You clearly have never been in any kind of a corporate environment, in your life.


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## Nucking Futs

Please stop feeding the Rookie4.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Lol.



Rookie4 said:


> Geez, I clearly stated that sexual harassment was an issue, what I also said is that an extramarital affair may or may not be considered sexual harassment BUT that it can also be a violation of company policy. In point of fact I said it before you did. I never, ever said that there was not a format for anonymous complaints. There again, you seen to have a serious problem understanding the language. what I said is that INTERNAL investigations cannot be started by an outside individual, the complaint HAS to be processed/ acted on by a company management official. You can report anything , but that does not mean it will be investigated, unless there is sufficient reason to do so. The idea that ALL complaints/reports are handled the same, is absolutely ludicrous. :laugh::laugh: Plus, the idea that several hundreds of non-employees can wander around the offices /work areas is too silly . In all of your vast experience have you ever seen a sign that says EMPLOYEES ONLY? You clearly have never been in any kind of a corporate environment, in your life.












I'm out.


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