# 28 years of head games is enough, I think...



## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

So, as stated 28 years of marriage. 

It seems as if my wife has a inferiority complex, which I am the target of her punishments. 

So I will start from the beginning. I will try anyhow. She has inherited a great deal of money and everything we do has to be put out for the whole world to witness and she wants to be the envy of everybody we know and to a greater extent, my family. But that is a different story all together. I grew up very modest (poor, very poor) and now that we are doing pretty good financially I wish not to rub it into peoples faces, for the reasons of being on the other side of the story. And if she does not get the desired affect from people about her great accomplishments, she embellishes the stories to the point of embarrassment. Where when she tells these stories I cringe, and try and change the subject. 

Not to inflate myself but I am a really personable fellow. I can meet someone at a concert and we feel that we have known each other for years, just really easy to get on with. I am not that good looking but I have a natural openness that emits peace and love. With that being said, I hope not to seem conceited because I am not, just a real person. 

So after 46 years of never meeting my cousins, we met and we had a connection immediately, kindred spirits. So much so that we have been talking back and forth and they traveled across the country to watch the eclipse with us here in the mountains. The instant they get her my wife is non stop talking, telling of our great travels, of everything we own etc etc. Then come the tall tells, one after another, she did not stop talking the entire time the company was here. Then, as if to put a seed of thought into their heads she starts talking about me, and everything she has to speak about is complete negative. Everything from a movie my wife and I watched months back, I did not care for it too much and explained the reasons why. My cousin asks if I liked such and such movie, I say yeah it is alright, my wife butts in and declares "I hated the movie and she loved it" I know it must not seem too big of deal but negative after negative comment about me, demanding I tell stories of embarrassing or stupid events in my life, it gets old and fatiguing. Instead of enjoying our visit my wife has me defending or explaining why I hate everything, while she sits back and thinks of the next point to bring up, to take me down a notch. When she does start another subject I will try and snub it off, she will put her finger up and say "I am talking right now"

Now at concerts if we meet someone or a couple she forces her way to the head of the conversation and repeats things that I have said in previous encounters with others, and forcibly puts me out of the conversation. 

I have tried to understand and give her space to spread her wings and do her own thing. I never spoke up or interrupted her while my cousin and his GF were here. Finally a few weeks after they had left, I noticed she was still doing these same things to everyone else, so I approached her told her what I thought and how things looked from my side. Of course I was making these things up and I was delusional. Everything is me just starting and wanting to fight, for over a year now, that's all I ever do now is want to start fights and argue (according to my wife). If I ever have an issue the only way it ends if I back down and pretty much have to admit it was all my wrong. 

Our last trip, we went to a concert, walking to a concert, foreign city, had to ask directions cross busy streets with wrong way traffic. Wife is going out of her way to ignore anything I say, like "Should we cross the street here, I guess not" Again with the people we meet, loud intrusive conversations, not allowing to let me speak, and if I do happen to get a word out, she looks at me sideways out of her eyes and then continues to ignore anything I say. again, I have to ask her why she is doing this. And, once again, I am insane, starting fights everything I say I am making it up. She says strangers are walking by and talking **** about me....? Really? So I tell her, if I am making these things up, I will stop and we will begin the night fresh, and I say if you do happen to be going out of your way to do these things you stop too. What ever I said, we had the best night there after. 

When ever we do have an argument, a lot over the last year, no doubt she is on the phone to her sister or friends displaying our dirty laundry to everyone, and of course her side of the story. Every time, again, just try to ignore it.

Last item, I carpool to work, recently someone got out of our carpool. We ask this gal to join, we have 4 people in it, saves 210 miles a week on each of our cars. All of a sudden I am having an affair with this gal. Now she was working in the same department as me, and we both liked music and live shows, we did a double date to a movie and bought tickets to a concert next year. I did text her (co-worker) mostly about where we met for carpool and the concert we were going to see.

One day, I awake in the afternoon after night shifts, and my wife mentions a few different items about different conversations I have been having with different people. She happens to know and ask specific questions about conversations I have deleted off my phone. She is the account holder and has our plan where she can get on and read all our texts if she wants, me her and our 2 daughters both grown, but still one plan. Of course we have an argument about a separate text message she is having with our 2 girls without me involved, of course talking smack about me making me out to be a jerk. I ask to see if I can see what she wrote, she reads it but hides another part, I ask if she will read that next text, she won't. So I ask her if she thinks we should not be reading each others texts etc, she does everything but admit that she was reading my messages on line, I didn't have to lead her in any way. Then she slips and says something about my email address to, so I know she has been reading my messages on line, and also reading my email. She absolutely denies any of it now of course, but the things she mentioned no way to ascertain info about a conversation I was having with another co-worker. I tell her I know she is doing it, she denies it, and here I am. We got back from our vacation I told her I wanted some time away from her this weekend. Just because we have been joined at the hip for 2 weeks and we are fighting like every other day. 

I am to the point that I am tired of doing these things that we should have worked out of our marriage in the first 3 years. These are just a small sample of the head games she is playing. We have been married 28 yrs now, our daughters are grown finished with college one married both live in another town. At this point I feel like it is an old pair of comfortable shoes, most of the time. Lately our fights have been pretty viscous towards each other. Neither one holding back hurtful comments. It's on both sides. My weekend extends through the first part of next week. She is out of town, I have been considering finding and talking to a lawyer and starting the process. (I am kinda scared she is monitoring my email still and she will see this post)

Any input from anyone would be greatly appreciated. I understand if you were to here it from her side it would be completely different. I am still relatively young 47. No bills to pay, am I addicted to being comfortable, am I having a mid life crisis? Or am I finally through with thinking I have to live with this constant irritation? This morning when I helped her pack up to leave, still an underlying snip of a jeer from her, it has to be intentional. I was so happy to see her leave, I feel bad about saying that, but.....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You are a full grown, gainfully employed, adult man and your kids are grown and on their own and she has her own money - do whatever you want. At least then she'll have something legit to b1+ ch about.

My suggestion is see a lawyer to find out exactly what your rights and responsibilities in a divorce will be and what your financial life will look like post divorce.

Arm yourself with that information and then you can better decide which path to take.


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## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

Thanks oldshirt. 

I won't lie, it is scary, the thought of it, being a part from her.

But what's more scary is the thought of cowering to her to keep the peace for 30 more years. 

Should be alright financially, but even if not, can't let that be what holds me. 

I will not be the first guy to get divorced, no reason to think I am better than that fate. Because I am just a man, and that is all I am.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I could not live like that. Divorce makes sense at this point.


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## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> I could not live like that. Divorce makes sense at this point.


It is actually a huge step here doing this, putting my feelings out here. For some reason it is really hard to think it ending. 
I do not want to make up reasons and play them over and over in my head and make them worse than they were when they first entered my head. 

28 years is a long time, shouldn't be back to this stuff.

She inherited a lot of money like 10 years ago, hasn't worked, I have no issue with that. She does what she wants, golfs every day, we travel on my days off. She buys what she wants when she wants, again, no issue, her money. When I ask her to take it slow at first, driving on the wrong side of the car on the opposite side of the road. She tells me, "I don't have to do everything you say" I let it sink in and think about her life and her freedoms, as we pass within inches of an overpass after running over three curbs. Honestly, if she feels like I oppress her like that, I wouldn't want her to live like that anyhow. But I don't, and she makes me believe I do and I am such a person. 

She retired at age 37. I have kept working, and will continue. For her say something like that.... and for about a week she had me thinking I did treat her like dirt, until I let what she said sink in, and then think about her life. 

I just hope I am not having a mid life crisis and painting a picture of something worse, to justify my current feelings.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your posts are all focused on her. What about focusing on yourself. 

What do you do for yourself? What do you do to be the best person that you can be?


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## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

I feel guilty talking bad about her.... and then I feel like I am making these elaborate shrines of anger in my head and I keep going back and adding to it. Then I remember I hate the pinching feeling I get when she says something slyly that cuts like a knife and she states I am imagining it. It is total mind games and why she is doing this and acting the victim after the fact is beyond my comprehension. Then I want to remember these things and so I bring something else to the great shrine of anger, lest I forget. 

Not sure if that even remotely is relative to your last reply, EleGirl


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

YourPleasure said:


> I feel guilty talking bad about her.... and then I feel like I am making these elaborate shrines of anger in my head and I keep going back and adding to it. Then I remember I hate the pinching feeling I get when she says something slyly that cuts like a knife and she states I am imagining it. It is total mind games and why she is doing this and acting the victim after the fact is beyond my comprehension. Then I want to remember these things and so I bring something else to the great shrine of anger, lest I forget.
> 
> Not sure if that even remotely is relative to your last reply, EleGirl


Yep, that's not relevant to my last reply. The question is what do you do for yourself.

You are hyper focused on her. Maybe she's turned into someone with an unhealthy focus on herself and putting you down. But that has nothing to do with who you are. So lets talk about YOU. You need to focus on yourself and pull your head out of her space.

So what do you do for yourself? Do you do any activities without her? Do you have your own friends that you do things with? Do you work out? What are your hobbies?

How old are the two of you?


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## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

So what do you do for yourself? Do you do any activities without her? Do you have your own friends that you do things with? Do you work out? What are your hobbies?

I used to do a lot of hiking exploring the country side. I am an audio gear guy, I like to rebuild old amps and put together vintage stereo systems and listen to music, vinyl record collection, could listen to music all day and night. Hence my user name For Your Pleasure - Roxy Music album title. So then the live music scene when it is available. When I listen to music and get enthralled in a piece of equipment sometimes I feel like I am isolating. That is why I am glad she is away for a week, I am going out in the hills, way out in the hills on my horse. Or maybe golf early in the morning, when it is nice and quiet. I love to backpack hike and explore.

How old are the two of you? 

She is 44, I am 47

Maybe she's turned into someone with an unhealthy focus on herself and putting you down.

That hits home. my friend when he has come around states exactly this, every story is about how great she is. Most of her sentences start with "you know me, I always...." or "this is so like me..." Especially when it has nothing to do with or about her. But she makes it about her somehow. if she talks to someone and they done something, she lies to out do them. The spot light has to be squarely on her, all the time. If someone sings my praises well as I said earlier, I am met with negative remarks.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

You are in desperate need of Dr Robert Glover's book, ''No More Mr Nice Guy''.

Read it, learn it, live it.

Then also, read, listen to podcasts, watch youtube videos about upping your masculinity and testosterone.

The vision of you sitting in the passenger seat, nearly dying as your wife shouts, ''you're not the boss of me!'' is too much to bear for a man. I'm guessing she bought the car, so she drives? Unless you're drunk or physically incapacitated, you should be driving (Trigger Warning!)

The behaviour with your cousins was utterly unacceptable, never let it happen again.

I see similarities with my in-laws and it's no way for a man to live.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The only one keeping yourself down is you. You'll either change that or you won't. It really is up to you.

Read up and quit being a doormat
https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy


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## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> You are in desperate need of Dr Robert Glover's book, ''No More Mr Nice Guy''.
> 
> Read it, learn it, live it.
> 
> ...



What you are politely trying to say and I must agree with you is I need to grow a pair.

Had a good day and did a little thinking, time has come. Yes it has. Going to go find a lawyer and talk with them. Weird thing is, is this is going to come out of nowhere to her, sure she knows our fighting and bickering is too much of course.

I will keep you guys updated.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

As an outsider looking in and having experienced much the same in my own life. I agree with what the others have said. Learn to be more assertive and focus on yourself and as the others have suggested a good place to start is No More Mr Nice Guy. I was married for 24 years and divorced now for almost 4 years. I am still a work in progress, but I am far better off now than I was then, living what I considered (even at that time) the cuckolded life. I never felt comfortable and happy towards the end of my marriage because I felt I was largely living for her and not for me. She was enjoying the good life, while I was doing all the hard lifting.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

YourPleasure said:


> So what do you do for yourself? Do you do any activities without her? Do you have your own friends that you do things with? Do you work out? What are your hobbies?
> 
> I used to do a lot of hiking exploring the country side. I am an audio gear guy, I like to rebuild old amps and put together vintage stereo systems and listen to music, vinyl record collection, could listen to music all day and night. Hence my user name For Your Pleasure - Roxy Music album title. So then the live music scene when it is available. When I listen to music and get enthralled in a piece of equipment sometimes I feel like I am isolating. That is why I am glad she is away for a week, I am going out in the hills, way out in the hills on my horse. Or maybe golf early in the morning, when it is nice and quiet. I love to backpack hike and explore.
> 
> ...


This sounds like my MIL, everything has to be about her. You can't have a conversation because she is too busy talking about herself. 

It can stem from being lonely. 

Also, I am thinking that evryone is actually doing things with their lives but because she is not actively earning a living and doing anything "productive", she maybe be feeling depressed.
And she is turning bitter and resentful over this. Thats why she needs to be better than everyone.
Since, you are the only one close by you get all her focused resentment.

It sound like a very toxic relationship and environment. I can't live like that.


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## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

I
Thing of it is, I have to sound selfish right now. But I am still young, good shape, good job. I am tired of living living like she wants me to, owing everything to her for our position. So many variables that would be an endless post about me ranting on about her. I know I am not free of faults by any means. Just feels like the right time to act on this. No more back sliding into old habits.

May I ask you guys a piece of advice? I plan on seeking out a lawyer tomorrow, find where I stand. Everything I own is in this house, I would like to think she would not destroy my stuff, but as I stated this is going to come out of left field, not sure how she will respond. Which brings up another question, do I let everything ride out until I am ready to have it legal? I do not want to bring it up and have a heated argument about what each of us has done, who gets what, should one of us leave the house etc etc. 

I don't want much from her, in fact if I didn't know someone who said their wife could have everything and she took everything and it was a mistake I would do that as I just want to be done with it. But I know now that I need to fight for my fair share of our property. I have worked since I was 18 and I shouldn't leave without my fair share. Luckily, we have no debt, pretty good financial standing. Just feel that if she has any inkling, she could get very crafty with everything. So any advice on how and when to break it to her would be greatly appreciated.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Buy a book or two on divorce in your state and read them thoroughly so you know what your rights and responsibilities are before you go to an attorney. That way you won't be wasting money asking questions that you can get in a book for much cheaper. When you already know what is expected of you and what the process is, you cannot be taken advantage of either. Knowledge is power.

First get a new cell phone plan on your own and change all of your passwords on everything. Password protect your computer and put a lock on your new phone, so she cannot get into it. When she questions you on it, tell her that you don't like her getting into your phone or your computer. She will be upset, but do not engage her about it. She can be as angry as she wants to be, but that has no control over your behavior. If she gets violent call 911 and have the police take her away. You have to stand up for yourself, but that doesn't mean engaging in argument or violence with her.

Make sure the next thing you do is to get copies of all paperwork and financial information and put it in a safe place away from your home, so she is unaware of it and unable to get to it. She will have her copies and you will have yours. You are not trying to harm her, but to protect yourself.

Do not utter a word about this to your wife. Learn about the 180 and begin to detach. If she asks you what's wrong, tell her you don't know what she's talking about and grey rock her. The idea is to be as boring as possible. You can search the internet for articles on how to grey rock. 

When you have all your ducks in a row and are ready to divorce her then you can make your move without emotion. You can have a place completely furnished and ready to move into before you serve her papers. Decide what you want to take with you, which probably won't be much. Spend a couple of weeks going through all your clothing and purging old things that you don't want anymore. Discretely remove anything that matters to you like photos and memorabilia. Take it to your new place.

Detach, detach, detach. But don't tell her a thing.

I only give this kind of advice to people who are living with an abuser. Your wife is abusive towards you and her abuse could escalate if she knows what's going on. That is why I think it's important for you to keep quiet and get everything in place before you have her served. If you are prepared things should go fairly smoothly without a big fight.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

YourPleasure said:


> I don't want much from her, in fact if I didn't know someone who said their wife could have everything and she took everything and it was a mistake I would do that as I just want to be done with it. But I know now that I need to fight for my fair share of our property. I have worked since I was 18 and I shouldn't leave without my fair share. Luckily, we have no debt, pretty good financial standing. Just feel that if she has any inkling, she could get very crafty with everything. So any advice on how and when to break it to her would be greatly appreciated.


The first part of your quote tells me that you are emotionally finished with her. Many of us have had those same kinds of feelings that we could have just walked away with nothing. But it also shows you are conflicted because you don't want to hurt her by taking stuff away from her. Or perhaps you are somewhat fearful of confrontation. After 28 years of course you have concerns for her well being, which makes you a normal and good man.

This upcoming legal thing called divorce has nothing to do with being nice or even being factually correct. It has to do with navigating the complicated legal system. That's why you hire the lawyer. They know how the rules of the game work. It is best if you can work cooperatively with your stbxw during the process and especially in mediation, but always with the background advice of a good lawyer.

Note that your stbxw may or may not have comingled her large inheritance with family funds. If she has, it opens up all her money to being marital property. You sound like the kind of person who wouldn't raid it, but you can still use that as a bargaining chip if this is the case. You honestly deserve half of everything other than her inheritance. Plus, if you've been paying more than half the living expenses since she retired then there may be other claims you can make. In addition, I would fight to keep whatever retirement plan you have as outside the marital assets. For example if you have $100k in a 401k or if you are vested in a pension plan, I would argue that is the same as her inheritance. She has her retirement via the very large inheritance, and your retirement is this 401k or pension plan. Now the court won't see it that way, but in mediation you can make this as a logical and emotional appeal. And if she has comingled her inheritance in some way with marital assets then you can trade your claim on her inheritance (which the court might well award to you) against your retirement assets. Tell her you won't go after her inheritance if she leaves your retirement account out of the calculations.

Also, if she has purchased stuff with her inheritance that has become common usage, like a car in your name or appliances in the kitchen, it is now half yours and rightly so.

Looking back I am very glad I didn't just walk away with nothing. I was willing to do that at one point, but I ended up better than if we had fought it out in court in front of a judge. My xw will be inheriting a very comfortable sum in the near future, enough to retire comfortably on. I would feel angry at myself if I had put myself into a financial hole by walking away with nothing and then watch her retire early and comfortably!

My advice is don't say anything to her until you have all of your plans in place and your lawyer says it is time to rock and roll.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I have clients like you and your wife. She has an extremely handsome income, and inheritances and she makes her husband's life misery, as his income, while really good, does not match hers. In short, she treats him like a leech. So........we made a lot of provisions. We visited several well heeled divorce attorneys. We came up with a spousal support plan, that is iron-clad and geared toward a single outcome: He does not want a divorce, he wants to straighten her out. Period.

We waited until she was particularly nasty to him. She actually threatened to remove him from "her" house. It was at that point that he gave it back with both barrels. She was used to him just being quiet and stoic while she laced into him. This time, nope. He gave it back, said that he could no longer live with her escalating disrespect, and he was going to give her exactly what she wanted, a life alone. She could have the damn house and all he wanted was half the money. And we were quite overt. We were going to take half the assets, we asked for spousal support, we wanted her to sign off immediately and he would vacate within 48 hours. In other words, we blindsided her. She thought that she could just, for her money, abuse him, and he would just take it. One further thing: He is a reasonably pleasant looking man for a person in their late 60's. She tips the scales at over 300. She is immensely unhappy, the weight plays a great role in this. She knows that if he goes, she really will be alone. He did not realize that she pushes but does not understand consequences. He laid into her with consequences. What are you going to do when I am gone? Going to date up a storm? Go on luxury vacations? Unassisted? What about our friends? Expect any to keep you as a friend? or me? 

She did not realize how much she was pushing him away. Their children lined up behind their father, saying that since mom started making a lot of money, she treated him as if he was an irritant. They said to her that they had difficulty respecting her. THey would have to support their father and not support her. She had the epiphany that if she jettisoned her husband, her life would become very uncomfortable. She also realized that all of the little things he did for her, once taken away were near impossible to find elsewhere. Her business nearly tanked a month down the line, as he was organizing her. Now, without organization, her sales were way off. Way off. She did not know when and where her investments were coming up for renewal etc etc etc.

In short, we forced her hand. She had to realize that her actions were destroying her husband and that she stood to lose a lot more than money if he left, and she realized that they needed help, she has gone into IC, and they are seeing an MC. She is also dieting for the first time in a decade, and they are working toward reconciliation.


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## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

I wish I could quote the last 3 replies, but that would make a very long post. So I will just say that every bit of advice and encouragement is greatly appreciated and accepted. I have read them all several times. In fact all advice, people who have stepped up and said things I need to hear whether good or bad here on this thread, thank you.

I, for some reason have been quite bad at keeping my password for this forum, I tried to log into reply last night but got locked out, then I went to bed. So that is why the silence from me. 

So much I could say about everything you CynthiaDe have stated, such good solid advice. There are things important to me I do need to remove, that as Thor mentioned, I was just really ready to throw in the towel just to be done with it all. I had visioned in my head, a very quick conclusion and I was ready to live with where ever the pieces lay. Now I know and realize that I first of all, have to remember this cannot go on, even if she comes home and we get on for the time being. I have to play my cards right, not be sneaky, but get things done. Get things planned and ready to roll when the time comes.

Taxman, I believe the woman you mention in your post is un canningly similar to my wife. She does not work, took care of her grandparents for like 10 yrs tops, a few hours a day. She acts like the time she put into it was unbearably difficult, emotionally draining and she deserves never to work or labor ever again. Also, along with that, as stated feels that the money she makes and has trumps everything I have from authority, respect and financial aspects.

These are the things, right here, I need to remember, I cannot get comfortable and slumber.


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## YourPleasure (Jun 23, 2018)

Last night, kinda had a low moment. Started thinking I was just pretending this was going to happen. Today, got home from golfing and went through my closet and tossed out old clothing I have no use for, it felt so good doing the very first step in the process. Now I am going to go through my personal items that are valuable to me and kinda start tucking them away in boxes in the garage. YES !!! Feels Good


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