# Should I move out?



## Twistedheart

Married for 13 yrs, together for 15. 2 Kids ages 7 and 12. Nothing extravagant in our lives but there are no hardships either. We are financially secure, both equally paying jobs. There has never been any abuse. No infidelity. We have had our moments but it has always been forgive and forget. No threats of divorce or leaving. I would like to say we both were pretty happy. Until about 3and a half months ago.

It was around my birthday. The wife had been involved with the YMCA (gym/working out) since last summer. She isn’t a big girl or anything and I have never even once spoken to her about her physique, other than how hot I think she is. Yet she was at the gym 4-5 nights a week for months straight. Then all of a sudden I began to notice a change in the way she was towards me. For my bday she got a cake with no presents and no candles. Not that I ever wanted anything but she always did do nice things for bdays.

So we get to talking about the situation and she told me that she felt numb towards me and that’s why she was treating me the way she was. That she wanted to feel loved? Wanted to feel wanted? Wanted to feel appreciated? WTF? Said she wasn’t sure she was in love with me anymore and that it would be best to separate. After listening to her say that to me I was devastated. The worst pain I ever felt in my life. 

I have loved her and have been in love with her since day 1. I may not be Mr. Romance but I feel that I show it in other actions. Loyalty? Respect? Just being her friend? Always doing the right thing. I served 9 years in the US Army and never once did I do anything wrong. Everything I do/did is for her and my kids. In no way shape or form would I put that into jeopardy.

I always thought things were going well in our life and never once did I think I would be without her for one day in this life. And then all of a sudden..BOOM..I don’t love you anymore!!!!!!!!

So for the next 3 and a half months I tried to make the changes that she was wanting. I even did more of the cooking, more of the laundry, more of the dishes, more of the cleaning. I coach both of my girls softball teams. Take them to practice. Just so she wouldn’t have to worry. I tried making things a bit easier on her for a while. Whatever it took to keep the love of my life happy and want to be with me.

Then last week I asked her “are you doing this for your heart, or are you doing it for our children?” Her answer was “I don’t know.” I said how can you not know? She said she just didn’t love me anymore and she wants to be separated. I don’t want any of the above. I want to go back to being happy again!

What I truly believe in my heart and in my gut, is that she has found someone else and is feeling some kind of lust for some new man. When she began doing the YMCA she also began hanging out with new friends, which I did not mind. I have never been the jealous type and have always trusted her. I am sure some may say “why didn’t you join the Y with her?” My answer to that is that I don’t feel I am over weight and am perfectly satisfied with my current physique. I am not over weight. On top of that I was made to work out for 9 years of my life (army) and I just am not ready to start doing that again.

She used to keep her cell phone on the kitchen counter, and her facebook used to stay logged in on the laptop. Now she signs out of facebook after each session and takes her phone to the bedroom at night and even into the bathroom! She went to a concert this weekend and did not wear her ring. I am so devastated right now.

I asked her lastnight if there was someone else. Of course she says no. But I told her it was so obvious that there was. That there was no way anyone could throw out the last 15 years of their life and be ready to move on in such short time without a reasonable legitimate excuse. She told me I was just looking for an excuse so that I didn’t have to take the blame! I asked her about her ring, and she said that I should take mine off and that if I wanted to go on a date that that was fine! /gag

Then this morning I asked her what was she going to do if things didn’t work out. She says with us? I say no with your new man. I began to tell her that whatever this guy was saying is that it is all smoke and mirrors and that after he got what he wanted he would be out and then what? It was silence. I then asked her to please tell me when they have or if they had sex to let me know so that I can deal with this pain better. Silence. I then asked if I knew who he was. It took her about 5 seconds to say “there is no one else.”

I feel so deceived and cheated. And she wants me to move out? On one hand I don’t think I should do that. As soon as I do she is going to go after whoever it is that she wants. On the other hand I feel so betrayed that I want to leave. I just want everything to be normal again. But I don’t think that is an option anymore. She is hell bent on me moving out.

I just wanted to rave and get this out and get an outsiders view. So hurt right now. All I get from her is “I don’t know what I want. I can’t tell you what I want with you here all the time. I want to be separated.” That’s all I keep hearing over and over in my head along with visions of her with another man….It feels like someone has a screwdriver in my chest.


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## jitterbug

I hate to say it, but all the textbook signs of cheating are there.

(suggesting you could take off your ring if you wanted to go on a date?????WTH?!?!?!)



I see no reason why you should be the one to move out--you're not the one second-guessing your marital vows.If she wants out so badly, let her do the hard work of relocating and uprooting.

I highly recommend visiting the "Coping With Infidelity" section at this site, and read this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ly-cheating-desperate-help-needed-please.html

Yes, it's very long, but the advice is incredibly sound---it's essentially a blow-by-blow of a man first suspecting cheating, sleuthing, finding evidence, and confronting his spouse.

He did some things right, and made some mistakes as well---I really believe it would be helpful for you to read it in it's entirety.

I'm very sorry for the anguish you're experiencing right now, I know it feels like a mortal wound.

If your goal is to salvage your marriage, however, you're going to need to operate with a calm, clear head..(it's not, easy, I know...)If you read the thread I linked, it's much like a "How-to"
manual for saving a marriage in crisis.

I wish you my best.


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## jitterbug

First and foremost you need to sleuth , and find evidence of her cheating. DO NOT confront her prematurely, it will just give her reason to be more guarded. Your going to need to summon up your very best acting skills.Cheaters will deny and gaslight until they're blue in the face----you need to obtain concrete evidence.


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## Twistedheart

Thanks for the response jitterbug. I installed a key logger on the laptop this morning. It may take a few days to a week for her to log onto facebook there as she mostly uses her phone. I also feel that I need some proof before pushing the issue anymore. Hoping this will get it for me.

She is VERY guarded right now. I almost think I made it worse when I confronted her about cheating.

The more I think of moving out the more angry I get. I ask myself Why should I? I have done nothing wrong. I think I may go stay with a family member for a few days. Gawd this sucks. Why do people do things like this.


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## publicme

Oh that's hard to take! A model guy and then this. 

This big love will laugh at her.


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## Twistedheart

publicme said:


> Oh that's hard to take! A model guy and then this.
> 
> This big love will laugh at her.


Sorry publicme. Not quite sure I understand what you are trying to say.

As in she's going to get burned, big time? I told her that this morning. /arrrgghh


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## jitterbug

Okay, so you did confront prematurely. Don't beat yourself up about it, it's a very common mistake.

(probably because an honest person doesn't think to sneak around and sleuth, an honest person will be direct....)

( to catch a fox, you have to think like a fox.)

It's still possible to catch her, though you may have to lull her into a false sense of security.Is it possible to access her phone records online?

Also, I believe it's very important that you don't budge from the house----it could potentially be used against you if it does come down to divorce.----you could be charged with abandonment, even though it's the furthest thing from the truth.

I know your mind is spinning in dizzy circles, every which way at once right now. A normal reaction. Slow down, deep breaths,
think before you act. One step at a time.


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## turnera

Yes, she's cheating. 

Do you have access to the phone bill? That's where you'll find his phone number - a million times.

Gather the evidence from the bill and the keylogger. If you know anyone at the Y, ask them to help you find out who it is. Get his name. Find out if he's married, how old - hire a PI. Your marriage is WORTH the money for the PI. And if you save her from herself, she will thank you later.

In the meantime, you become an AMAZING husband - do everything she always asked you to do and you ignored. Show her what she'll be missing if she leaves you.

Once you have the evidence, you confront her again and tell her you know she's cheating and you want her to stop. She'll deny, you'll show evidence, she'll admit but refuse to stop.

That is when you sit down and call her parents, her siblings, her pastor, and her best friends. You tell them what happened and ask them to help save your marriage. You also call HIS wife, parents, siblings, and do the same thing.

Once the affair is exposed, it's no longer fun, exciting, thrilling...it's embarrassing. At that point, she will have two choices - stop the affair or continue. If she stops the affair, you will have her write this guy a No Contact letter that YOU read and YOU send him. She will give you her passwords. She will agree to not go anywhere without your knowledge until you can start feeling safe again. She will agree to not spend time with any other men. She will agree to marriage counseling with you to fix what was wrong in your marriage (most likely just boredom and rut).

If she refuses at this point, you tell her she's welcome to leave, but the children stay with YOU. PERIOD. And if she tries to fight it, you will take her to court and you will subpoena the other guy as a witness.

This requires you being STRONG. Ok? Strong. Every man I've seen in your shoes who tries to kiss up to his wife, beg her not to leave, say he'll do anything to keep her...loses his wife.

She NEEDS you to be strong on this.


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## Twistedheart

OMG. I know who it is. Thank you guys for the advice. And you were right turnera, I checked cell phone records and blam. the thing is it is in her name so I had to call and get the pw changed in order to get into the records. That number was called, like you said, a million times a day. And it is a guy from the Y. He taught boot camp and right away she into that class. My hands are shaking.

My aunt knows who this guy is. She is tracking down his wife's name and number. More to follow.....

Thanks all for the advice.


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## turnera

While you're waiting, go to Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice and read up their Surviving an Affair section. It gives you specific steps to take to end the affair and get your wife back. THEY WORK! I've seen people follow that plan dozens of times, and it almost always works to end the affair. 

Now, does it get your wife back? Not guaranteed; that depends on what kind of marriage you had. But if she just got suckered into his 'ways,' there's a chance you can snap her out of it. But you have to act swiftly, decisively, STRONGLY, and give her NO option of continuing to contact him. You have to tell her: you either NEVER contact him again, EVER, or you leave this house. I will not tolerate cheating in my home. Your choice. 

She needs to hear this from you.

But get the proper steps from MB.


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## jitterbug

And, whatever you do, DON'T MOVE OUT!!!

And make several copies of the phone records, DO NOT store them in the house, leave them with a trusted friend or family
member---you may end up needing concrete evidence.

Also, consider your finances. Stop putting money into joint account(s) NOW. She may be using marital funds to finance her
...activities.

Do this BEFORE you let her know that you've seen evidence.
You need to play possum for just a little bit longer, even though you want to scream from the tips of your toes.


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## turnera

Wise advice. NEVER move out. SHE cheated. If she doesn't want to be married to you, SHE can leave - WITHOUT her kids.

She NEEDS you to be strong right now. FIGHT for the marriage by tackling the affair head on.

You will have to gather the evidence and put it where she can't find it. She is NOT herself right now, so don't fool yourself that she won't do whatever it takes to keep getting her 'drug'.

And DO set your bank accounts so she can't pull money out. Once you confront her, she may try to empty the account and set up a new camp.

Once you have the evidence, sit her down and tell her you know she's cheating. You are going to give her ONE option: stop it, or leave. ALONE. 

If she refuses, you call everyone she knows, and everyone he knows, who can make a difference. You expose the affair so that it is no longer fun. I'm going to bet, given his profession, that he just wanted some free, fun SF. Once he is outed, he'll drop your wife like a hot potato.

THEN, you set RULES for how you are willing to take her back - transparency, NO time with other men, etc.

That's how you stop an affair.


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## Twistedheart

Well in hopes of stopping the affair, it may have just picked up steam. When I got home I confronted her about the phone records. She said she didn't know who that number was. I showed her the records with the number highlighted, almost the entire page was highlighted there were so many, and there were multiple pages showing just a few days. But the number went back to january. 

She told me 'ole that's soandso from kickboxing. I grabbed her phone and looked up the guy (cause I knew who it was) and he wasn't listed. So I looked for soandso from kickboxing and sure enough it was listed, with his number! 

I called the number and put it on speaker. He answered and I said hello I am {blank}s husband, and he hung up. I called it back, got the answering machine and said Hello {scumbag's name} this is {cheating wife}s husband, have a nice day!

So after that she says 'were just friends.' I said no noone communicated that many times daily for months on end. How long have you been {expletive}ing him? She came clean. sorta. She says only since April but I know that's a lie. It all started back in january when I noticed that she wasn't the same person anymore.

I called her mom, dad, aunts, neighbors, anyone who we have a social interaction with. She kept telling me why was I doing that that it's embarrasing to her. I said ya no {expletive} and throw in humiliating while you're at it. I also made her call {scumbags name} and tell him it weas over. She did.

So we talk and she seems kinda remorseful, but I can tell it's just a show. I told her that I can forgive (shes the love of my life, what can I say) but we needed to go to counseling and she agreed. Atleast we were on talking grounds.

Later that night I get ready for bed, i get up pretty early. She stayed up to watch a bit of tv. About an hour later I get up and go out to the living room, she isn't there. I go downstairs and I hear 'i gotta go.' I grabbed the phone from her and check recent calls, sure enough it was him. She been talking to him 56 mins. I told her that was it and I grabbed a suitcase and packed a bag and went to my aunts. Not one time did she try and stop, say im sorry, nothing. She seemed like she was {expletive} off that I caught her again.

So not even one time does she check on me that night. I called in to work and told them I wouldnt be there. All through the night into the morning I was checking phone records and she was still talking to this guy.

I wake up the next morning and decided that I didnt feel like I needed to be away from my kids so I went back home (they were off for voting day). I walk into the house and she already has changed locks and told me I was no longer allowed in that house. Well I got a reference for a lawyer from a friend and called him up. He laughed and said there was no way she could have me leave unless i caused it. Of course i kept my cool and will continue. I will lose my job if i go to jail. 

See it seemed as if she has had this whole thing planned for several months. In fact I know she did cause she started dropping legal terms all over the place. This guy was just recently divorced last summer over. His wife divorced him for cheating on her. I asked her if she knew why his wife left him and she didnt answer. I told her and then she lashed out that we werent going to be talking about that and that we needed to focus on separating.

She keeps blaming this whole thing on me. Its my fault! I asked her this morning how she could do this to the kids, and she told me that she didnt do it, that I did it! She is in total denial even after being caught red handed and putting all the blame on me. She is a total different person. Just full of poison and all directed at me. She wouldnt {expletive} on me if I was on fire right now and this is the mother of my kids!

I havent ate anything since sunday evening and it isnt looking good for today either. There is just no way for me to get this stuff out of my head right now. I am operating on about 40 mins sleep and dont even feel tired. Dont feel hungry either. Just feel nbutterflies in my stomach 24-7.


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## turnera

Are you back in the house?

Did we not TELL you not to leave the house?


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## jitterbug

Plant you butt firmly down in the house.Pack a bag for her.

Tell her if she wants to be with him, she can be the one to uproot.

I hate to say it, but if she's already being venemous, it might be a good idea to either have a witness or a tape recorder for any communications for awhile, simply to protect yourself from any false accusations that could be made against you.

Hopefully she'll come out of the fog enough to realize that she's about to leave a steady loving man for a man who's already proven to be person who scoffs at marital vows.........

*Don't forget to freeze your bank accounts before she empties them!!!*


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## Twistedheart

All accounts are fixed. Finances are squared away. Yes I am back in the house. I needed to get out to try and clear my head. Was gone about 10 hours total.

She says that she won't leave and we will just continue to just live as we have. She will go see him whenever and also stay in the house. WTF.


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## Twistedheart

She has no remorse or guilt for any of this. She blatantly says it is my fault.


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## jitterbug

Wow.Just wow.

How old are your kids? Is she going to tell them that Mommy's going out for the evening to hang out with her boyfriend?

What kind of example is that going to set?


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## Twistedheart

12.5 and almost 8. Her answer to anything in regards to the kids are that it's my fault. I pushed her into this. 

I still have hope since the affair is blown wide open and almost everyone knows that this thing will stop being fun and she'll tire. But by then I am not sure that I will be as forgiving. As this pain and sorrow goes away other feelings will take over and I am afraid the longer she waits, the worse I will feel towards her. Maybe she doesn't deserve a second chance.

I have lost 10lbs in 3 days.


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## jitterbug

Did you read the link I posted several replies back?

The poster, "Showtime" is a man who went through something nearly identical to your story.....

I recommend reading it because he was given very sound , *step*-*by*-*step *advice on how to deal with the situation when the infidelity was discovered, without ending the marriage.

So far, it's one of the success stories here. I say "so far", because the story is ongoing, though as it stands, last I read, his wayward wife has moved back home and they are beginning the long process of reconciling.

When your wife blames you for her cheating, she's simply reading from the same script that nearly all wayward spouses do.

They blameshift, project, gaslight.They can't face up to their own dishonest behavior,so they try to put it all on the BS (betrayed spouse). While you may have contributed to the marriage being less than perfect, the blame for the cheating is on her 1000%. And often times, a WS (wayward spouse) will rewrite marital history to justify their dishonest actions, rather than face the fact that they're behaving with ZERO integrity.

Is there a chance her parents will help you by pressuring her? 
For the sake of their grandchildren? 

There's no reason the children should be exposed to her infidelity. I don't know if that's legal grounds for kicking her out of the house or not, it may depend on where you live.

Bottom-line, SHE's the one trying to break up the family, she should be the one to go.And obviously, setting a good example as a parent , and being a good parent is the furthest thing from her mind right now.

I know it's hard, but try to eat---drink some protein shakes, something to keep you nourished, and thinking as clearly as possible.(for your kids as well as yourself)


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## cb45

_*man u dont listen/read at all.
several here told u not to leave, not to fly off the handle.
shoot, get more evidence b4 she easily fakes u out again, was
what u were told.

u didnt even say "i left cuz i was gonna kill her"! the only viable
excuse. 

sometimes, i wish GOD would allow us to kill in a 
righteous cause, as i'd kill mr kickboxer 1st, and seriously 
consider W next. but alas, Jesus taught us o/wise in all
respects and HE must be obeyed. so........

now love, fidelity, TRUST, loyalty, HOPE, are all out the window. 
u will forgive her later, got that? LATER!
now is time for u to gear up for battle as theres little to
nothing u can do for her, only for yerself. put yer game
face on, camo, whatever it takes (legal-moral) that is, 
and fight hard, fight strong, fight fair. 

everybody here has told u not to be a wuss w/ her.
now it is not for both of u, but for yerself. u must 
walk away eventually from this w/ some dignity, in order
not to become a pathetic howling version of "woe is me"
victim. (easy 2 say, harder to do) 

wish u well. keep us posted. we'll help anyway we can.
*_


peace----------------------------------------cb45


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## Twistedheart

Honestly I took a look at the link but not with a clear mind. Just scanned. I will try and go back to relook.

I called her father. He has sent her money to help her situation. Which there is none because she makes as much as I do and can live on her own salary. He has assumed that the relationship is over and that there can be no reconcilation and was worried for the kids (copout). I told him that that was not his place to decide and if there was ever a chance to make this thing it would rely on people like him to not support her right away and to make her do things on her own. I feel that this may well be one of the driving nails in the coffin. I really could of used his help in not supporting his daughter's decision in anyway, for a while atleast. But it didn't go like that at all.

This thing just feels like it is all crashing down on me so fast.


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## Twistedheart

cb45 I will keep that in mind. I am trying to be strong. This is stuff I have never felt before. I am not going to just lie down. 

I already have a lawyer and will be ready for this fight. What she is wanting is ludicrous. All I want is Joint. She wants joint with me paying a ridiculous amount of child support. My lawyer told me that all she was going to get was about 12% of what she is asking for. 

And I agree. I need to stop with the woes me crap. Easier said than done I reckon but I will work on it.


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## cb45

by the way...........

she should sleep on the couch, not u. heck, even 

get some sheets and make it up for her.

lock her out of bed rm, pick her up and put her

on the couch if u have to but..........

do what the ladies do to the men for a change/switch!

and of course, pray for wisdom, pray for strength.

right now she thinks ur nuttin but a meal ticket, or 

rmmate, apparently. dont be one for her is what 

couch idea above basically states.


peace-------------------------------------------cb45


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## jitterbug

Please take the time to _really read _ the link.

especially the long replies by Affaircare and Tanelorn Pete.

Their perspective and advice is absolutely stellar. They've been through it, and come out still together, and much wiser.

I'm only qualified to help you to a certain extent, I'm by no means an expert. I'm merely fairly well-read. I also experienced betrayal by my SO when he had an EA, so it prompted me to read and learn as much as I could about different cases of infidelty.

(trying to understand, Why,why, WHY????..........)


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## cb45

and..........Jitterb's rght, got to eat/supplements/something if

u want to think right, and be on guard w/ yer A-game ready.


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## Twistedheart

She will not comply with that. I feel all that will do is cause unneeded problems and may begin to involve the law. I can not under any circumstance have that.

I really don't even want to be in the same room with her right now with what she's doing and the way she is acting. Maybe I should go ahead and sleep in my own bed tonight!


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## Twistedheart

Ok going to read that thread.


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## jitterbug

Also, find out if your state has an "Alienation of Affection" statute in place.

You may actually be able to sue the OM.

There's only 7 states in the U.S. that still have that on the books..

.if you even live in the U.S.


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## Twistedheart

KY


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## Twistedheart

And while I am thinking back when I spoke to her dad this morning, I get the feeling that he already knew what was going on. He was kinda like oohh wellll, what can ya do....


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## turnera

Twistedheart said:


> All accounts are fixed. Finances are squared away. Yes I am back in the house. I needed to get out to try and clear my head. Was gone about 10 hours total.
> 
> She says that she won't leave and we will just continue to just live as we have. She will go see him whenever and also stay in the house. WTF.


 Then you fight dirty. You turn off the cable, the internet, and the phone. You close all phone accounts and open one for yourself only. If she tries to contact him in YOUR house, you call her mother and tell her right then and there that she is committing adultery that very minute. In front of your wife. Act like a man, ok? Fight this.


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## turnera

Twistedheart said:


> 12.5 and almost 8. Her answer to anything in regards to the kids are that it's my fault. I pushed her into this.
> 
> I still have hope since the affair is blown wide open and almost everyone knows that this thing will stop being fun and she'll tire. But by then I am not sure that I will be as forgiving. As this pain and sorrow goes away other feelings will take over and I am afraid the longer she waits, the worse I will feel towards her. Maybe she doesn't deserve a second chance.
> 
> I have lost 10lbs in 3 days.


You need to sit your children down and tell them "Mom is going through some issues right now. She thinks it's ok to have a boyfriend while she is married, and I am trying to show her that that is not ok. If you see us arguing in the future, it is about her having a boyfriend, NOT about you."

They need to hear this. And she needs to know that THEY know.


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## jitterbug

I just checked---KY does not still have A of A laws in place.

However you may be able to use this:

Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress (IIED)


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## russ101

You can't stop someone from leaving if that is what they want, but you can make it as difficult as possible. Don't give her anything that the court doesn't make you give her. It sounds like she definitely wants a divorce, so let her get a taste of exactly what that will be like. This is now war, and should be treated as such. Her dad will only give her money for so long, he will eventually stop. Maybe I missed it, but is this other guy married with kids too? If so, make sure his wife knows all about this affair. My guess is if he is married, he has no intention of leaving his wife, and even if he does, this affair won't last long (he'll eventually cheat on your wife too) and she'll be begging to come back. The question is, will you want her back?


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## jitterbug

Hey Russ---the OM's wife left him last year for -------

cheating.

who could imagine?

Th's wife is preparing to leave him for a man who's already proven that he's capable of being unfaithful.

She's in a fog thicker than pea soup.


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## turnera

Did you call the YMCA and tell them about the affair? Did you tell them that you're getting ready to sue them for the person they hired?

Did you find out HIS family info and call THEM to tell them what he's doing?

Look. She is an alien right now; you can't argue with her, you can't even logic with her; she is addicted to him and until he is out of the picture, nothing else matters. 

DO NOT agree to ANY kind of separation; you can't fix your marriage if you're apart. By ALL means do not talk divorce. She has to withdraw from her affair drug - you aren't talking to your real wife right now. She is just scrambling, clawing at roots, to keep getting her fix of the OM.

So what you have to do right now is fight like hell to stop the affair. Tell everyone - calmly and politely - what they are doing; ask everyone for help. LOOK like the reasonable one. People will know. The more people know what they are doing the less she'll be able to carry it on. 

Visit the Y and make a big stink about him; tell them you're going to start asking other patrons if he has been a predator. Scare the crap out of them so he gets fired.

KEEP talking to her family and friends and keep them updated on what she's doing.

Make your home a battleground - a LOVING one - for now. NO AFFAIR ACTION IS ALLOWED TO GO ON UNDER YOUR ROOF WITH YOUR KIDS AROUND. PERIOD.

If you see her texting him in the house, you pack up her clothes and carry them out to the street. If she brings him home, you file an injunction and change the locks. You FIGHT!

If you do this - calmly and politely and lovingly - she CAN get over him and come to her senses. But if you try to 'nice' her back to you, she'll run over you with a Mac truck.

This is your only chance, friend, to get your marriage back. Do it right and do it swiftly.


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## russ101

I agree with Turnera. Your wife is definitely not the person you married right now. Make it as difficult as you can for her so she has to live on her salary alone. Don't pay anything for her (cell phone, her groceries, car payment if she has one, anything else you can think of). Tell anyone that will listen about this affair (neighbors, friends, family etc). An affair is not as exciting when everyone knows about it. She will eventually come to her senses.


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## Twistedheart

Evidently it doesn't matter to her, or him, who knows. Because she is still non stop texting/phoning. I can't take the phone away because it IS in her name and she uses it for work. She does home health so it is essential. 

Now, I am thinking that it is just too early and maybe there is still some shock value for them (and me). Hopefully with time the 'thrill' will wear off. 

She says she definitely wants a divorce. She brought it up. I said then that is on you. Do what you have to do, but I am staying in my house, in my own bed, and with my children and I will fight this until the courts tell me I have to do something. That I am not going to just lie down.

She agreed to not communicate with her boyfriend around the kids. But she'll just go downstairs or what have you. 

I am still trying to read Showtime's thread but been a bit busy today at work. I know I am sounding sappy but this is theurapeutic for me.


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## turnera

Then you KEEP telling people. Go to all her friends. Go to her friends at the Y. Call her boss and tell him/her that she's carrying on an affair instead of doing her work.

Do SOMETHING!


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## jitterbug

Don't forget to eat----even if you don't want to---

Try to hang in there the best you can.Keep reading. Knowledge is power.

The mistakes you've made recently are the normal, knee-jerk reactions that people have when they discovered they've been betrayed---don't think there's something wrong with you.

I can't emphasize enough, however, how VITAL it is that you remain calm while interacting with your W--even though you want to scream and yell. That will only reinforce her villifying you.

You'll also feel empowered by remaining calm. Don't get suckered into having your buttons pushed. Be calm, yet unwavering and decisive about where you stand.


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## notreadytoquit

this sounds like my story except my cheating husband is still denying the affair and filed for divorce. But my situation is little bit different from some other aspects and some other things that I have no control over. Just like your wife my H is an alien right now, not one ounce of the person I married. The longer it goes the more I think I do deserve something better with more respect and dignity. Good luck to you.


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## 2Daughters

Sucks...but only when she comes out of that fog will she see clearly..obviously when someone turns to either an EA or PA it's nothing one side did but an accumulation of events on both partners...my wife still hasn't come clean so a spouse is never 100% sure but 90% sure is good enough for me..besides when your wife clears her brain the question is will you want her back?..can you when you two are laying in bed keep her adultery out of your head?..that is the main question.


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## turnera

Twistedheart said:


> 12.5 and almost 8. Her answer to anything in regards to the kids are that it's my fault. I pushed her into this.
> 
> I still have hope since the affair is blown wide open and almost everyone knows that this thing will stop being fun and she'll tire. But by then I am not sure that I will be as forgiving. As this pain and sorrow goes away other feelings will take over and I am afraid the longer she waits, the worse I will feel towards her. Maybe she doesn't deserve a second chance.
> 
> I have lost 10lbs in 3 days.


 That brings up a good point. If you have a spouse who refuses to quit cheating, you have to set a timeline for how long you will continue to accept their wayward behavior. Certainly no longer than 6 months, less if it's radically affecting you. Why? Because you are damaging your own psyche by watching your spouse spit on your marriage vows. You can only do that so long before you break. Plus, by allowing it to continue under your nose while you do nothing, you are giving them permission to abuse you.

So set a goal for 9/1/2010 or something; if nothing changes by then, kick them out and file.


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## Twistedheart

I have told everyone I know and who I think she knows. On his side, I know one guy and he already knows. He was the one that told me what a scumbag he is and that he would spread the word.

As fas letting it go it wili be until I have had enough. I already have had enough but I refuse to lie down. I forsee only giving it a few weeks. 

I am set financially and with the bills. We have split everything up and have new bank accounts. We don't own a house (long story, but thank goodness).

She wants me to leave and has wanted me to leave for a while now. I refuse. She wants me to sleep in my daughter's bed. I refuse. She wants me to pay her child support in an uncontested divorce. I refuse. She really is getting nothing that she wants out of me. This isn't going her way at all. She had this all planned out to a T and now it's kinda not working out, including the being busted for the PA.


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## Twistedheart

And I really do appreciate everyone's input. I have gotten more information from this board than anyone I have actually talked to. I do not know many divorcees or PA victims!


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## notreadytoquit

Don't worry many of us a new to this type of situation. In my case I got better advice here than from the marriage counsellor.


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## turnera

I'm really glad to hear you're standing your ground. It's the best for everyone. Even her.


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## jitterbug

It's still possible your marriage can be saved---although it's going to be up to you to do the heavy lifting at first.

I'd like to recommend that you sit tight a little longer than a few weeks, painful as it is.You're in no shape right now to make life-altering decisions.Read up on "Plan A" and "Plan B" here.I believe it's in the thread I linked.

Their affair bubble has been burst, exposed----but it will still take a while for it to deflate.

Project ahead w/ me for a moment here, set your mind on fast-forward.

Because your W and you don't own your own home, I'm presuming you're renting w/ a lease. Let's say your W does decide to move out---Is OM really looking to take her and 2 kids into his home?What about when reality hits him upside the head?

She may very be left holding the bag, so to speak.Not to mention the fact that he's already cheated on his former W, that will be running through the back of your W's mind.She's never going to be able to really trust him.......having to truly support herself is also going to be a wake-up call.

sssssssssssss.....hear the air hissing out of the bubble?


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## Twistedheart

Jitter excellent post. I was running that throuh my head this evening. It sounds good but she is in love with this guy. She has been with him since last November. She told me her mind was made up and she wants a divorce. I am honestly just too wore out and ready forthis thing to be done. I have gone from 205 to 194 on 3 days. It is taking it's toll on me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jitterbug

She _thinks _ she's in love with him. (and vice versa)

It's a fantasy-based illusion fueled by the excitement of sneaking around, and by the fact that the relationship has not yet been put under any of the normal pressures and stressers of day-to-day cohabitating. It's not been tested.It's not _real_ love.

(grass is greener syndrome) ( the truth is the grass only looks greener on the other side, cuz you don't have to mow it--_Shirley Glass _)

Real love is always there, warts and all. It's what remains when your SO knows you through and through and still wants to be with you.


Since November isn't that long---I don't see how she can feel that she really knows him.

It's amazing how quickly marriages borne from affairs fail --the success rate is ridiculously low, based on what I've read.

You have to decide if you want to try to salvage the M or not.
There's a chance you can rebuild even and be even stronger than before---but it will never be the same M you had after this. It's a hard road if you choose to take it......

I feel for the pain you're going through right now. Betrayal by a loved one feels like a mortal wound. It can even cause PTSD symptoms for awhile, it's very common amongst BS's.You go into hyper-vigilance mode, and your body can experience flight or fight reactions.(not eating)

But EAT something, d*mmit!!

Whatever course of action you end up taking---post here as much as you need to--there's a lot of compassionate and helpful souls here.


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## skitown

I feel for your situation. Sounds like you have done well by staying strong. Have you told her that not only has she cheated on you, but she has cheated on her kids. She is putting some guy she barely knows before her kids. Doesn't she recognize this? 

Whether you tell the kids or not the reason behind the break-up, they will find out maybe not now - but at some point in their lives. Can you imagine how they would react if they heard this from the neighbor kids, friends? This will have a huge impact on her relationship with them. And it will affect their future relationships with their partners. 

She is the weak one.


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## Twistedheart

Ski, I have told her that exact sentence several times. She is unfazed. She doesn't recognize anything sensible right now. It is not really my wife, it is someone else. She has put on this shell to help her, in her own mind, feel that what she is doing is not wrong.

We talked lastnight about an hour. It was very emotional. She hasn't cried at all but did here. We talked about the good times, the kids growing up. We were both balling, I on the couch her in the recliner. I so wanted it to end right there with us in each others arms again. It didn't happen.

She says she still loves me but not in love with me. I tell her she is still the love of my life even after all this. But it doesn't matter how many times I tell her that she is unfazed.

She talks about how I could never get over what she has done. I told her she was right but I can forgive and still love and honor her. It most definitely would not be the same but like Jitter said, it could only make us stronger. That we would have to counseling, no if-ands-or buts. I told her though that the first step was truly ending with the other party. Not much of a reply on that of course.

She is going to see a lawyer tomorrow and see what her options are. She said she didn't want to file right away. So somewhere she is second guessing all of this. I just hope I can tolerate this long enough to break her from this trance she is in. As long as I see the ssssssssss progress I think I can weather. I am afraid though that I can not take many set back or blindsides.

I did sleep in my own bed lastnight. She did also. We have a king so it's her side and my side. I actually may have gotten 4-5 hours sleep. I coach my daughter's softball team and I really needed that. It finally gave my mind a rest for a few hours. I felt like a zombie and completely exhausted afterwards and was able to go home and sleep for a bit. 

Maybe I will eat today. Too early to tell.


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## turnera

Twistedheart said:


> I have told everyone I know and who I think she knows. On his side, I know one guy and he already knows. He was the one that told me what a scumbag he is and that he would spread the word.


If you want to save the marriage, you're going to have to spend more time telling people. Hire a PI and get this guy's family info. Call his parents, his siblings, his aunts and uncles, anyone whose respect he wants. He needs to know what he's doing is slimy.

Have you spoken to him yet?

Have you asked an attorney what rights you have regarding OM, such as suing him? Scare him away. Make her not worth the hassle. GO TO THE YMCA AND DEMAND THAT HE BE FIRED.

And tell your kids the truth. They WILL find out, so it's better that they hear it from you, in an age-appropriate way, and the TRUTH, not the fogbabble crap your wife is going to tell them ("we're just not getting along, we agreed that we should separate..."). Sometimes, simply knowing that your kids KNOW is enough to shake sense into WS's.


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## Twistedheart

The kids know. And they know the truth. Both of us have told them. My wife is hell bent on getting the divorce. She just told me that there was no way she could ever love me again like she did.

I called the Y and spoke to the director. He was very appreciative about receiving the information of the affair. They both teach classes there so something should come about on that. I spoke of them being around children and women of all sorts and said that this information was important if not just for that. He said absolutely and thanked me, anon tipper.

I can not imagine as strong as she is on being done with the marriage that she could come around. She will see her lawyer tomorrow and find out what choices she has.

She is telling everyone that she is done and can't understand why I won't leave the house but since I am being non confrontational she can deal with me being there. She says there is only one option, divorce. How can I deal with someone like that? Her days of listening to sound advice from me have been over for 7 months. This thing is going to be done long before she realizes what she has done. The only thing I have to keep my head up about is that this burden is on her for the rest of her, mine and the kids lives. So sad.


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## Twistedheart

I need to let her go so I can heal my pain. But not sure how I can do that. All I can think of is 'how am I going to fix this?' I have done quite a bit already and it hasn't fazed her. She doesn't care what people think her. All the embarassment and humility and it doesn't matter.


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## turnera

I'm really sorry. Sometimes people just blow a gasket; maybe she's one of them. At this point, I guess I would be focusing on documenting everything she does so that you can at least try to get major custody, so that she doesn't bring OM around your kids. Judges need to see, in a journal, her destructive behavior, to see how it would effect the kids.


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## Twistedheart

turnera said:


> And the fog that envelopes the WS's brain literally keeps them from seeing reality. Instantly, their marriage was a sham; their partner was evil; they were never really happy. When a month before, they were looking forward to next Christmas. There IS no communicating with a WS about your relationship, because they have - by necessity, to live with their treachery - convinced themselves that YOU are the problem, not them.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I found this post within one of notreadytoquit posts (thanks for the invite, btw). this is a tough problem to over come for me. This is the exactly the crap she is pulling with me. She tells me she has not been happy for years, I drove her to this, it's my fault the kids are hurt, blah blah blah. I am telling you she actually has me convinced of all this sh*t. That maybe I should have been better for these years. So Fing crazy!!!!


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## jitterbug

It's called, "rewriting history"---the bulk of WS's do it to rationalize and justify their wrongdoing.

Occasionally the claims are legitimate,(though it still doesn't justify infidelity)

But more so it's the WS doing it to avoid accountability, putting it all on the BS.

And while they're thick in the fog _their_ _perception _of your flaws is magnified immensely.


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## notreadytoquit

I like how turnera put it: Blowing a gasket. Except in my situation my husband blew the entire engine!

Turnera, quick question for you. You know I am in a very similar situation like Twistedheart. Our divorce proceedings have started but they are going slow at the moment. I also know that its not late until the ink is dry on the divorce paper.

Do you think I should continue exposing my H affair? There are still few people that I can tell about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

There's no point in exposing now, not unless you're still trying to get him to leave her or admit the affair, and come back. At this point, it's only about getting people on your side. If you need support from these people, tell the truth. But know your real purpose.


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## notreadytoquit

1. I do want him to end the affair. If nothing else I don't want that woman in my sons life.
2.Admission, remorse, guilt are all things that have to happen if any reconcilliation is to occur. Deeds will be more important than words. 
3. Right now I do need support of everyone: family, friends and yes I need them to be on my side.

I know that sometimes I may project the notion that I actually give up and want to move on but deep down I still hold on to a glimpse of hope. Maybe some will think I am crazy but 9 years together is not short time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The only warning I would give is that, if you are divorcing, telling people at this point could be used by his attorney as you being a beeotch. In other words, bad for the settlement.

That said, I STRONGLY believe in telling everyone in such cases (as long as you're not harming yourself). If my DH cheated, he does not deserve to have people think he's an ok guy. JMHO


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## Twistedheart

notreadytoquit said:


> I know that sometimes I may project the notion that I actually give up and want to move on but deep down I still hold on to a glimpse of hope.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


nrtq, how are you able to see inside my head? I have this exact thought. After 15 years how am I expected to just throw this away like a piece of paper and grab a clean sheet?

My wife went to see a lawyer this morning. I know one thing, none of this is going as planned for her and her people that have had months to plan this thing. She had hoped that after our tiff in january (although she been with the guy since Nov '09) when she said she hadn't been happy for years and that she no longer loved me that I would just throw up my arms and walk out. It didn't happen. I have been fighting for 3 and half months.

Now she expects me to work a compromise with her regarding the divorce. She wants custodial guardian and for me to pay child support. I keep telling her that I want joint custody and she wont have anything to do with that. She then tells me that if I contest this "you are going to hurt our kids by putting them through a long divorce!!!!'''' WTF...I get the blame no matter what.

She is wanting this to be quick so she can be done. She thinks I am going to sign just any ole thing she brings out. She can not stand that I am fighting and refuse to except anything less than 50%. I am wrecking her plan daily. She has had months to plan this, and has, I have had 4 days.


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## notreadytoquit

My husband wants a quickie divorce too. In Feb when we went through MC he had already seen a lawyer(before I had proof of the affair.)I guess the OW gave him some pointers because she was already in the process by few months.

As for the proceedings are concerned we only had one meeting with the lawyers. We still have not signed the collaborative divorce agreement(because of him) and I specifically made it clear that divorce was never in my books and that made it in the minutes of the meeting.
I also said I would never be the plantiff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

> I have had 4 days.


And you're doing AMAZINGLY well.


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## michzz

consult with a lawyer right away.

This marriage is over and toxic to you.

Protect yourself and your children.

If it's a rental house, get out of the lease if you can.


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## Twistedheart

Toxic is exactly the right word. It is killing me, literally. I mean I am going to have to make a dr appt so I can get tested for STD. I mean seriously? So much evil in this it isn't funny. 
And everyday I see more and more indicators. In January she got the deprovero (sp?) shot. Her explanation was for to help with excessive bleeding! Such a fool I was. I never had reason to doubt her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notreadytoquit

My husband did not even want to try separation. He wants to go straight to divorce. When I read your story I thought maybe you were the husband of my husbands mistress but then I remembered her husband was already resigned about his destiny.


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## kenmoore14217

Twistedheart I am in your corner but from reading your posts it does seem obvious to me that you were not paying close enough attention to your wife before the affair, otherwise you have picked up on some of the subtle signs. And now you have paid attention, so that just proves my point to you. I learned a long time ago to always sleep with one eye open! Look at the cold reality. A wife and/or husband is an investment of sorts. Time, emotion, feelings, lust etc, etc. Just like a bank account, you always keep tabs on them. Most men will notice within an hour or so if their car gets nicked or has a suspicious dent, but our spouses, oh they are just doing their thing because we males are basically lazy and serf-serving. Not saying it's over if you don't want it to be over but IMHO it's time to go NC and make her double life just a little more difficult to carry on.


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## cb45

to twisted & notready:

i'm sorry to read of yer recent developments. i think others 
here have given good advice up till now.

i dont know how yer verbal exchanges go w/ yer adulterous
mates, but i'd advice u both get to a mental place where they
can detect both in words, demeanor, and ACTIONS, that 
u r in control of yerselves, no whinning begging/pleading
threatening, etc. That u r FINE w/out their selfcentered
arses, and u r ready to move forward too in your life.

if they see/hear control, and no anger. if they see love
in its most beautiful state, "is that what u really want dear?"
"ok, no problem." "if u dont try to take further advantage
of me, I'm sure we can work this out" type of material.
at the very least, u will begin & feed their self doubts 
about the life they r going to, and initiate the lack of 
trusts, jealousies, and eventual demise of their new faullt
ridden relationships.

i guarantee it. :smthumbup:


peace---------------------------------------------cb45


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## Twistedheart

kenmoore14217 said:


> Twistedheart I am in your corner but from reading your posts it does seem obvious to me that you were not paying close enough attention to your wife before the affair, otherwise you have picked up on some of the subtle signs. And now you have paid attention, so that just proves my point to you. I learned a long time ago to always sleep with one eye open! Look at the cold reality. A wife and/or husband is an investment of sorts. Time, emotion, feelings, lust etc, etc. Just like a bank account, you always keep tabs on them. Most men will notice within an hour or so if their car gets nicked or has a suspicious dent, but our spouses, oh they are just doing their thing because we males are basically lazy and serf-serving. Not saying it's over if you don't want it to be over but IMHO it's time to go NC and make her double life just a little more difficult to carry on.


Kenmoore, you couldn't be more right. The indicators were all around me. I knew but I chose to ignore because I thought that there was no way she would do that to me. Nieve I was and I learned a valuable lesson. Just because nothing is said does not mean there is nothing wrong. I will definitely sleep with one eye open from now on.

We got married when we were young, 19-20. Our communication skills with each other have been horrid, until now. We have talked to each other about everything for 2 days straight. We both have agreed that the divorce is something that needs to happen. I am ready for this and I need it. There is just too much damage to overcome to work on this right now. One thing is for certain that we both can agree on. We still love each other very much. We both need some time on our own. If things work out down the road with us then fine, if not, I am ready to move on and have accepted that she is not good for me right now.

Yesterday morning was the first time I woke up and the first thought of the affair and my wife with that guy did not bring a wave of anger and feelings over me. There was nothing. Just a thought oh well, it is time for me to move on. I slept for 7.5 hours. Ate breakfast this morning and am about to go eat lunch. 

We are going for an uncontested divorce and have been nothing but civil the last few days. In fact we have talked more it seems than we ever have and are actually enjoying talking to each other. If I only had a time maching to go back. But hey, things happen for a reason. 

I am 34 and have a LOT to learn that I may have missed while being married. We both need to discover things within ourselves. If anything we'll both be better people because of all this.


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## anonymus

Just wondering how is your situation now


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## Twistedheart

Well we are still together. It has been about 4 months since I found out. Honestly I can say that we are better friends, spouses and even parents. I refuse to except this, but it is like the affair hurt us but then helped us. As hard as that is to even think it seems true. 

It has taught us both how to talk to each other. To share everything we feel no matter what. To appreciate the other more. And to not dismiss the other's feelings. That is a dangerous thing to do. Communication always was our problem. We have both learned a lot about life and about ourselves over these last 4 months.

We absolutely know this: We love each other so very strongly and we want to be married to each other. A lot of things went into saving my marriage but none were more important than the love.

I have my days when thinking about the hurt and pain she caused me. She realizes what she did to me/us and it does make it easier to deal with knowing that she knows and tries to understand. She knows when I am feeling down and I tell her everything I am feeling.

Sometimes I feel like none of this is worth it when I think about how I felt when I found out. I think about how I should have gotten out when I had the opportunity. But those are just the bad days, which are getting farther and farther apart. When it's good it's good. Which is most of the time. But when it's bad I tell her. She openly listens to me and reinforces the good times we have and how we are growing together for the better, which I agree. 

Only time makes things better. Mistakes happen and forgiveness is very possible, though I never thought so. I believe we will survive this, as we are doing so right now. As long we both believe in each other and never stop working to make this thing work, we're going to be ok.


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## SeekingSerenity

Twistedheart said:


> I found this post within one of notreadytoquit posts (thanks for the invite, btw). this is a tough problem to over come for me. This is the exactly the crap she is pulling with me. She tells me she has not been happy for years, I drove her to this, it's my fault the kids are hurt, blah blah blah. I am telling you she actually has me convinced of all this sh*t. That maybe I should have been better for these years. So Fing crazy!!!!


They do make you feel like you are crazy, my spouse for years has been telling me that I deserve someone better than him, yada yada yada, I have been hearing this for years, I tell you they are so far into their own world you truly wonder where have I been, have I been in the same relationship as you?


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## turnera

It's called a fog for a reason.


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## MrK

About Twistedheart

I am a:
Male
Relationship Status
Separated
Length of time in current relationship:
16-20 yrs.
Sexual Orientation
Heterosexual
Biography
Betrayed Spouse since Jan '10, discovery was May '10. *Separation Sep 2013*.

WTF?? Are you kidding me? What happened?


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## Twistedheart

I tried to give it all I could. For me, for us, for the kids. I've never felt she was sorry for what she did, only for getting caught. Plus little things that just add up. I've never really been told the whole truth (trickle truth). I know there's way more than what she has told me but will go to her grave without telling me. She's a stone cold liar. I decided I was tired of it. I told her she had to go.

I feel great. Like 5 tons of stress has been lifted off my shoulders. She has been gone since last week of August.


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