# Help! need some advice



## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

New member here... Needed someone to talk to/about the situation we've gotten our marriage in...

Background info:
Married for about a year and half. Realistically it was about as good as can be for awhile. We had gotten married, lived together for a year before we did. We own a house, own two nice cars, my wife get's whatever designer bags she wants, i get to play with nice cameras as thats my hobby - all seems well. She and i only really have a hand full of close friends but she seemed to finally be making friends with her coworkers who are around the same age.

About two and a half weeks ago, she had gone out with her friends for a girls night. i was fine watching basketball at home. It was forecasted to start snowing around 11pm which it was at that point and my wife had mentioned she was running low on batteries. well the snow started, and 11:30pm rolls around, and no response from her. I decided to go on her iPad, and check her group message with her friends to see if they decided to stay at the bar longer, or if they had in fact left. Yes, invasion of privacy, but honestly, we're married, if i wanted to use her iPad i should be able to and vice versa.

Well i had found some texts between her and a coworker... Some pretty insinuating texts about teasing one another, and getting their fills, she had said that he was handsome and sexy, and cute and all the in between. She had sent countless selfies (not nude) to him as well. Naturally, i freaked out. I pretty much went berserk, i even called her mother to ask her what i should do. i packed a bag and waited for her to come home. She had no idea why i was doing what i was doing. She had explained to me that it was all a joke, and that none of it was real. It was an elaborate prank between her and her female coworkers to mess with this guy. 

EDIT: The joke was going on for at least a month

fast forward a day or two, and lots of fighting in between about how messed up it is, and how she made me feel. I confirmed with all parties involved that it was indeed a rouse. I even spoke with the guy, who seemed like a very nice guy, married in fact... and he was in the dark as well about it being a joke as well.

My wife has apologized and said it will never happen again. I said that's not good enough, i want her to quit her job or to not be friends with the people involved, because i don't trust them, and they are certainly not looking out for me or the best interest of my marriage (the friends are both married as well). I tell her that if they thought it was so funny, then why didn't they send those messages themselves instead of using you. yadda, yadda yadda... I say its me or them... She says, that that's irrational and that there's no reason that she still can't be friends with them. Choice made, heart broken that this sweet girl that says/said she'd do anything for me, wouldn't give them up for me. She since then has been claiming that i don't want her to have any friends, and that i'm controlling.

as i said, its been 2 weeks+, and she just says move on... stop dwelling and trust me...

I wish the story ends here, but it doesn't... i'll wait for some responses for the follow up!


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Bad joke.
Bad reaction.

You confirmed it was a joke...

Now you want to deprive her of her friends because of a bad joke gone wrong?

She is right. You sound very controlling.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Even if it was confirmed to be a bad joke....Her actions were not honoring of you, your marriage, or her...

...I tend to agree that those friends who are a part of this...are truly not friends...and should be relegated to the sidelines. 

...Perhaps putting it in a demanding way like "it's your friends or me" is not the way to go...and IS controlling...but I would definitely say that trust was broken and to move on and just trust her just isn't gonna happen.

Her inability to take action causes red flags...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Looks like they're all lying. What was in the texts? What did the guy say?


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Looks like they're all lying. What was in the texts? What did the guy say?


nah they weren't lying. i know my wife enough to know she wouldn't be cheating on me with this guy.

oh and i forgot to add, that this wasn't just a day... it was happening for at least a month.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I didn't get the impression that this was short-term joke...


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## Borntohang (Sep 4, 2014)

Let me get this straight? She's a married woman who along with other coworkers conspired to tease and flirt with this married guy that she works with? She's sent countless selfies ( I'm guessing during work ) and her coworkers are sticking by this story? Really? 
No wonder she needs to choose!


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

Followup...

so as i mentioned its been about two weeks... i've honestly been taking it a day at a time. trying to keep the bigger picture in mind... Some days were bad. Some days were good. some days i wouldn't think about how my trust was violated and somedays i would just say to myself, 'wtf... who does that'...

previous to all of this happening, she had said this to me "oh, my friend xyz has a house in vermont, and wants us to go skiing one weekend" -- i thought nothing of it, until this happened and...

2 days ago, my wife was texting from work, and she was booking her vacations ahead of time as nurses need to do. We had planned a vacation in march, but it looks like we're not going due to financial reasons (we needed to buy furniture, we had just paid for renovations, and she had just bought a new bag) - but were still looking if we could. As we were discussing potential vacation days for her to request not to be put on to work... she throws this out: "soooooooooo the weekend before Easter is the weekend xyz wants me friend1 and friend2 to go skiing at her house in Vermont. But I have vacation the week before so I feel bad requesting so many days off" (friend 1 is one of the friends involved in that horrible "joke")...

i flipped out on her. The "us" she referred to in the aforementioned statement, never included me... it was us, as in my friends and i!

i told her that i don't feel comfortable with her going with these people without me. meanwhile, she had already put the vacation requests in! without evening getting my approval - right she doesn't need my approval i guess... but it'd be nice for me wife to ask me if it was okay... or if i was okay with it, no?

Besides that, i was doubly hurt, because i always ask my wife to go snowboarding with me. I love the snow, i love snow sports. she hates the cold, and she has said multiple times in the past that she doesn't really enjoy it. But all of a sudden, she'd go all the way to VT, with these people...

she said she won't go, since i'm not comfortable with it, but that just pissed me off more because its not even like she thought about this. Why would i be comfortable with it? and basically she is just shouldering the blame on to me. So i flipped out even further! saying that since the first incident happened, she should be more wise and sensitive to my feelings! Especially with these people!

it escalated quite a bit... it was pretty late at night, we had been screaming each other, both had been saying some things I'm sure we wouldn't normally say to each other. and of course, she brings up that I'm trying to control her once again, and that i just want her to sit in the house, having no interaction with anyone, blah blah blah.

so i said, let me do what you did to me; "let me go text some girl that she's sexy and that i want to f*ck her", and went outside to the car to get my work bag as i was late for a work call and needed my laptop. She then locks the door behind me, and shuts it and goes upstairs...

i FREAK THE F OUT! i started ringing the bell nonstop, and knocking (hard for a few of them) and screaming let me in now! open the door!... i was infuriated... seriously.. blinded by rage by how embarrassing and de-masculiating this was...

oh btw, i was in my pajamas and it was 10 degrees Farenheit out...

she let me in after around 5 minutes...

and then i did something that i regret doing... i pushed her... i shoved her onto the stairs (onto, not down! don't think i'm that crazy)... i said i'm done, pack your bags and get out... still blinded by rage. 

she then goes on to insult my masculinity because i put my hands on a woman, etc. all of which, she was correct, but since i was so angry, i was not listening to anything...

since then, we are both sorry for what we did to each other that night. 

i am embarrassed for myself. it's a very serious incident. i get that. that trumps all, but she's been recently making me feel like she had nothing to do with escalating it to that... she's been acting like she's innocent in all of this and that i've just been unreasonable through all of this....

thoughts?

added: she does love me... i know she does... we've been through quite a lot together... but she just doesn't seem to know how to balance right and wrong, and husband and friends.

btw: before all of this happened, i was a little insecure yes, but was glad she had friends and people to share stuff with. not anymore, but she's not getting that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

eninety said:


> New member here... Needed someone to talk to/about the situation we've gotten our marriage in...
> 
> Background info:
> Married for about a year and half. Realistically it was about as good as can be for awhile. We had gotten married, lived together for a year before we did. We own a house, own two nice cars, my wife get's whatever designer bags she wants, i get to play with nice cameras as thats my hobby - all seems well. She and i only really have a hand full of close friends but she seemed to finally be making friends with her coworkers who are around the same age.
> ...


Hmm... I'll wait to read the rest before I chime in.

Actually, scratch that...

Assuming that it was indeed a joke, then wow... your wife sounds like a b*tch. Same for her friends.

Conversely, if it wasn't a joke, then wow... your wife sounds like a b*tch. And, again... same for the friends.


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Hmm... I'll wait to read the rest before I chime in.
> 
> Actually, scratch that...
> 
> ...


I KNOW! i know my wife deep down is not a *****... she's awesome to be around and a decent human being! but I'm assuming this is what happens when women band together? idk... only explanation?

the guy she was texting is in the wrong for doing what he did to his own wife, but that his own business. from my side, i feel bad for him. when i said, i know my wife wouldn't be interested, is because he's a little nerdy, foreign and just not her type.


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

oh and to clarify, and not totally villainize my wife, she has since spoken to her friends, and said that that behavior was inappropriate, and that was deeply hurt by her actions. the friends had responded that they understand and were sorry... not to me... but to her at least...


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

eninety said:


> I KNOW! i know my wife deep down is not a *****... she's awesome to be around and a decent human being! but I'm assuming this is what happens when women band together? idk... only explanation?
> 
> the guy she was texting is in the wrong for doing what he did to his own wife, but that his own business. from my side, i feel bad for him. when i said, i know my wife wouldn't be interested, is because he's a little nerdy, foreign and just not her type.


A decent human being would not disregard their spouse for a joke among friends. And if you want to hang your hat on this guy being a nerd and not knowing what was going on....what does that say about your wife's character to lead someone on as a joke?

Please don't generalize this as something that happens when women band together. As a whole, this group of women were were mean. Individually, no one spoke up and said that perhaps this is not right ( so many levels)....Where's the integrity??


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

I think you both need to hit the reset button before this thing takes on a life of it's own.
It sounds like when you two are fighting it turns into "one-upmanship"

Never good.


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

in her words: "whenever i'm out with my friends, you make me feel guilty... you always ask what time am i going to be home, or say 'oh, i guess its going to be a late night, ill just go to sleep'"

i can't deny that i do make her feel guilty. and that i am indeed a bit insecure. so much so that i've actually used the gps in her iPhone to track her location that night to the bar... just for full disclosure because i want to be fair to her and not just tell it from my pov.

i have/had trust issues... but for me, it would've been nice to have trust issues, feel stupid for not trusting her, and learn from my mistake, rather than, having trust issues, find something like i did, and then end up in a situation like this...


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I don't think I could tolerate that kind of a "joke" from my wife. I've never heard of such a thing, and honestly I'm still scratching my head at it. Both that and the vacation thing make her sound very immature and inconsiderate of you. 

Unfortunately, your problem is that you're completely losing control of yourself. Even if your wife had cheated, pushing her wouldn't solve anything. Blowing up is not going to avenge your hurt, and it can make things worse. And although it's a close call, I don't think that demanding she quit her job and cut ties with those friends is the best move either, it seems a little overboard considering that, at least as far as you know, this was in fact all just a "harmless" prank (I'm not 100% convinced). You are setting yourself up to be the bad guy "controlling husband" when she's the one who wronged you.

I would try to cool down for a while. I would be a little less trusting of your wife based on what she did, would probably be a bit more on alert, but I wouldn't want to show it too much.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your wife and her friends sound very immature. What would they have done if the guy's wife had seen the texts and came gunning for her? Would it still have been funny? And what about the wife's feelings? No one cares that an innocent could be hurt by their little prank?

And what about locking a person out in the cold in freezing weather? Your wife needs a checkup - she might have a brain tumor.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

eninety said:


> I KNOW! i know my wife deep down is not a *****... she's awesome to be around and a decent human being! but I'm assuming this is what happens when women band together? idk... only explanation?
> 
> the guy she was texting is in the wrong for doing what he did to his own wife, but that his own business. from my side, i feel bad for him. when i said, i know my wife wouldn't be interested, is because he's a little nerdy, foreign and just not her type.


1) No, this is not just "what happens when women band together." Don't make excuses for her.

2) I'm confused about the guy's role in this, what do you mean he was "in the wrong for doing what he did to his own wife"? Was he responding and participating? This really does not sound good to me.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Do your wife's friends also work together with the OM? 
If they don't, you have a way bigger problem. I'll explain when you answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Cheaters always pull the controlling card. I think you've gOt Blinders on. Girls night out has been seen so many times going wrong here it's uncountable. Good luck believing this was all a joke. A joke where she tells a married man she wants to f:ck him? Don't be a chump. Send the texts to his wife.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you talk to the friends ? Are you just taking her word for it?


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

John Lee said:


> 1) No, this is not just "what happens when women band together." Don't make excuses for her.
> 
> 2) I'm confused about the guy's role in this, what do you mean he was "in the wrong for doing what he did to his own wife"? Was he responding and participating? This really does not sound good to me.


He was responding and participating...



Tobyboy said:


> Do your wife's friends also work together with the OM?
> If they don't, you have a way bigger problem. I'll explain when you answer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes the all work on the same floor in a hospital. the OM is a night nurse, and the women are on days.



Chaparral said:


> Cheaters always pull the controlling card. I think you've gOt Blinders on. Girls night out has been seen so many times going wrong here it's uncountable. Good luck believing this was all a joke. A joke where she tells a married man she wants to f:ck him? Don't be a chump. Send the texts to his wife.


she didn't say explicitly that she wants to f him.



Chaparral said:


> Did you talk to the friends ? Are you just taking her word for it?


i spoke to her friends and they confirmed that it was all a joke, and that she loves me and would never do anything to hurt me.

to which i replied, too late.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

How was he responding? She was sending him flirty texts, was he flirting back?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm just not getting a good vibe here. "Joke" texts, friends backing her up and even after you voiced your opinion about her being with her friends, she plans a trip anyway.

You have to tone yourself down a little and be reasonable in your arguments. If you suspect she's cheating, get evidence. If you just don't like her behavior, you have to discuss it rationally and explain why you are hurt. But no physical confrontations!


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

John Lee said:


> How was he responding? She was sending him flirty texts, was he flirting back?


yes.

in her defense, she said that they talked about normal stuff as well... which i verified and she actually does say that she was married (not sure if that helps anymore these days) and that her friends had sent some texts as her... some of the inappropriate stuff.


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

Chris Taylor said:


> I'm just not getting a good vibe here. "Joke" texts, friends backing her up and even after you voiced your opinion about her being with her friends, she plans a trip anyway.
> 
> You have to tone yourself down a little and be reasonable in your arguments. If you suspect she's cheating, get evidence. If you just don't like her behavior, you have to discuss it rationally and explain why you are hurt. But no physical confrontations!


so i started this thread purely for a sanity check. to make sure I'm not being unreasonable, or that i should just get over it like my wife says...

i don't think she's cheating on me. i believe her when she says she loves me.

what I'm having trouble doing is rationalizing her actions and how she's been so inconsiderate to me.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Who instigated the "joke" and was the sexting done only with the friends present or was your wife alone when engaging with the OM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Cheating nurses and teachers are so common here you wonder if any of them are faithful.


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Who instigated the "joke" and was the sexting done only with the friends present or was your wife alone when engaging with the OM?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


not sure. my wife said her friends started it, and she carried on with it... including the night that she went out with her friends.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

eninety said:


> not sure. my wife said her friends started it, and she carried on with it... including the night that she went out with her friends.


...but did she do some texting on her own? When alone at home? Alone in her car? 
Have you checked her phone records to see when she was sexting?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> ...but did she do some texting on her own? When alone at home? Alone in her car?
> Have you checked her phone records to see when she was sexting?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


see i thought that that would be wrong...

the only time she really texted him not at work, was the night i had found out about it...

she did delete the texts off her phone the night i called her and freaked out. so she knew enough to hide them from me. luckily the i had the iPad.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

"Joke" or no, she was flirting with him and he was flirting back. And whether her friends sent "some" of the inappropriate messages or not she participated, so she is fully responsible for all of it. Otherwise she would text him saying "oh my god, I'm so sorry, that was my friend, not me." See what I mean? Don't make excuses for her.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that she actually was interested in this guy and her friends are now helping her minimize the whole thing. But either way, it would take me some time to trust my wife if she did something like this. And the more she tries to deny or rugsweep it rather than accept full blame, the less I'd trust her.


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

not helping my insecurities here guys haha


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

eninety said:


> see i thought that that would be wrong...
> 
> the only time she really texted him not at work, was the night i had found out about it...
> 
> she did delete the texts off her phone the night i called her and freaked out. so she knew enough to hide them from me. luckily the i had the iPad.


She deleted the texts, huh. Classic. And you feel like it would be "wrong" to look at her phone. Because it's "right" to stick your head in the sand.


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

John Lee said:


> "Joke" or no, she was flirting with him and he was flirting back. And whether her friends sent "some" of the inappropriate messages or not she participated, so she is fully responsible for all of it. Otherwise she would text him saying "oh my god, I'm so sorry, that was my friend, not me." See what I mean? Don't make excuses for her.
> 
> I wouldn't rule out the possibility that she actually was interested in this guy and her friends are now helping her minimize the whole thing. But either way, it would take me some time to trust my wife if she did something like this. And the more she tries to deny or rugsweep it rather than accept full blame, the less I'd trust her.


she says the more i dwell on it, the more it drags us both down... and to her, it was all a joke, so she has no issue just dropping it.

found out the OM stopped talking to her all together as well. but she still has her b*tch friends every step of the way.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

eninety said:


> see i thought that that would be wrong...
> 
> the only time she really texted him not at work, was the night i had found out about it...
> 
> she did delete the texts off her phone the night i called her and freaked out. so she knew enough to hide them from me. luckily the i had the iPad.


So were these iMessages?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> So were these iMessages?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yea


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

eninety said:


> not helping my insecurities here guys haha


I think you sound a little in denial. But if you think we're wrong, go gather the evidence and prove it to yourself. Do you think I'd give a damn if my wife looked through my phone records? Absolutely not, because I have nothing to hide. We share the phone bill anyway.

But listen, you really have to be cool while you are doing this. Stop lashing out at her, she's already in defense mode. She already deleted texts, she's already making excuses. Act like you got over it. This is a win-win -- if there's really nothing wrong going on, then you aren't making a big deal of nothing, and if there is something wrong, it will be easier to discover it if you don't seem like you're still upset.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Expose!! Tell the OMs wife what your wife and him were doing. Then tell your wife's friends husbands about how they were the instigators. 
Of course, by now they told their husbands that they are just covering up for your wife.....which I think that's what they're really doing. Unless your wife is 16 years old?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eninety (Feb 4, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Expose!! Tell the OMs wife what your wife and him were doing. Then tell your wife's friends husbands about how they were the instigators.
> Of course, by now they told their husbands that they are just covering up for your wife.....which I think that's what they're really doing. Unless your wife is 16 years old?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i don't want to involve other people in our business. even though she did with ours.

i know I'm at least better than that.

and i doubt the other women told their husbands anything...


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

Don't get in any hurry to have kids with her.........yet.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

eninety said:


> i don't want to involve other people in our business. even though she did with ours.
> I
> i know I'm at least better than that.
> 
> and i doubt the other women told their husbands anything...


Ok. I got nothing else. I wish you luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

It would seem that you both need to sit down and have a calm and frank discussion about boundaries and expectations. 

If you do not want a wife that has the GNO's and plays this mickey mouse bullsh*t text flirt game at work with her buddies...than you need to tell her so. You are the master of what you will accept and what you won't. Physical altercations and passive aggressive reactions merely make you appear weak...Stop doing that. If you do sit down and tell her that this behavior is unacceptable and then she continues it...be ready to take the legal action required to end your marriage. You would need to do it immediately. Any empty threats just work against you. DO NOT sit down and tell her if you have GNO's than I will divorce you....Just say that you will not accept that behavior. If she asks about consequences......just say that you will need to consider them. 

During this frank and open discussion about what you want and what you will accept. You will need to be ready to listen to her. She has expectations as well. LISTEN to them. You own half of your marriage...It didn't get here by itself. You helped. 

and FYI.....The next time she pulls the "controlling" card...either say nothing (Best Option).....or calmly ask her what exactly she means and what, in her opinion, a "non-controlling husband" would look like. EXACTLY what it would look like. Odds are, she won't be able to give you an answer....if she does, it won't make any sense....or...least likely, but still possible, she will tell you what that means to her...and you can discuss it like grown up people. 

I can't stress this enough....don't shove her again. A man, A Leader- controls himself. If you can't control yourself and you let her push those buttons that make you go nuts....she will VERY rapidly lose all respect for you. and rightly so. 

Kindness and Mindfulness are too often forgotten after marriage. You can be mad at someone and still be kind and mindful of your actions and words. You staying calm and polite....will encourage her to stay calm and polite. If you both can't treat each other with basic respect and decency...than WTF are you doing??


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Its not controlling to have boundaries. Controlling is not letting someone do something. She is old enough to do what she want and is free to go. So are you.

How often is she going out without you? Where does she go?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

It begins...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html 

Sounds like she's at least getting into an EA. Perhaps OM is playing her. Don't worry about OM, he has no vows to you. Your W does.

Read around, learn about boundaries. She needs to understand boundaries and the slippery slope she's on. She may be innocent or not..

Example. Here is a small example of what pick up artists (PUA) do. A PUA can be married or single. 

I've copied this from another user, don't recall who..

Findingmyway was a player, I don't know if he comes on here much now, but he did leave a point of view thread although I can't find it. He posted something similar to me, here it is.:
***********************************************

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

*Re: Re: Help! need some advice*



eninety said:


> she says the more i dwell on it, the more it drags us both down... and to her, it was all a joke, so she has no issue just dropping it.


This is what I would call minimising and rug sweeping


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Do not confuse secrecy and privacy in marriage.

Privacy is closing the bathroom door. There is no secrecy in marriage. All accounts, devices, phones, emails, passwords. All should be freely available to both partners. Everything. 

So, no worries about snooping. No such thing. You too.

She needs strong boundaries. Boundaries define your marriage. It keeps daily toxins and evil out of your marriage. Within it, marriage grows. Weakness lets poisons in and ruins marriage. Simple as that.

She needs to see and recognize her responsibilities and consequences of her actions. She should never do anything behind your back that she would never do in front of you. Period. And you too.

It appears she is and does. Where will it end. No good can come from this.

Also, read up on Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay. Great book for all men married or single. Maybe also Not Just Friends for her.

Toxic friends, trickle truth, rugsweeping, blameshifting, gaslighting. It all sucks.

Next argument, tell her you're trying to protect your marriage. Just what is it that she protecting. Then shut up and listen. Just wait until she speaks. Just listen.

And keep in mind, right now her words do not match her actions. It's the actions and behavior that matter. Words are cheap.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

It's such a funny joke....I would have to let the other husbands in on the joke the girls are playing on the night male nurse. Wonder if they think it would be funny what their wives are participating in.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, everyone involved in this stepped out of line and you were well within your rights to react (not physically though, that was wrong).

Its up to you if you want to make sure that all concerned understand that they had overstepped boundaries, behaved inappropriately, damaged your marriage and its also up to you if you want to let their other halves know what they did (I would). If nothing else, they will respect you for that.

As for your wife, you need to have a frank and stern discussion with her now. Before anymore boundaries are overstepped and before she loses anymore respect for you.

As the others here have been saying, don't think of starting a family or making long term plans with her until this is sorted out. Do challenge her if she says you are controlling. You are not controlling so stop taking blame for that.

Make them respect you by showing them that you will not stand for their nonsense.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How and why did they pick this particular guy? Have you seen him? I'm wondering also if her "friends" were playing her too. Bottom line is what they were doing was cruel or worse. If her friends put her up to this, they're sick and your wife was also a patsy.

The other possibility, and most likely is they're toxic friends covering and encouraging her affair.

Remember, she's lied about this whole thing. All information she gives has to be independently verified. For example, how do you know the om quit talking to them? If you heard it from them only it doesn't mean anything, could just be more lies.


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## Lucas (Oct 19, 2011)

She enjoyed texting the guy, even if it was a joke(a month long...) You just saw the texts, what happened at work? Flirting looks, etc. she had to play the part to keep the "Joke" believable. Acknowledge that you understand it started out as a joke but you also understand that she enjoyed having someone flirt with her. Her coworker girl friends are bad news, she is getting reinforcement that you are in the wrong and taking their worthless advice. If she wants to sweep it under the rug and move on, that is a problem. That is what is best for her so she doesn't have to admit that she messed up and she doesn't want to have to put forth the effort to work on the relationship. It will happen again if it isn't repaired. I have been in a similar situation, don't feel like this is your fault. You can feel how you want to feel, you are looking out for your marriage and are willing to work on it(Credit a few posts back). She needs to be honest and you need to let her without being angry, understand that marriage doesn't take away temptation. When we marry, we choose to be open, honest, and faithful. We make mistakes, small ones such as talking to a coworker about frustrations with your spouse, can lead to big mistakes. It can be hard to communicate because it may hurt the other spouse, but you will grow from it. No doubt your wife was on the path to an all out affair, fortunately you are in a place that you two can learn from it and grow. 

A couple of questions:
1. If your wife had to choose, would she save you or the collection of designer bags?

2. Do you have that sick feeling in your gut? When that goes away, you are on the right path.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Op's done a runner, operation rugsweep in full swing me thinks! He'll be back!!!!


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