# Please help! Glimmer of hope today? Or am I just screwed?



## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Long story but lots of things happened this morning, we spent that time together with the kids. We planned a great day. I told her I wanted to spend the time but wasn't sure about it b/c I'm still madly in love with her. We proceeded anyway. She kept saying it was fine.

Afternoon came and she got very nervous and anxious.<<She has been nothing but cold to me up to this point.>> She told me there will always be a part of her that loves me and wants to be my wife. She said she wasn't ready for us to be around each other so much and had to cancel our plans for the rest of the day. She wouldn't elaborate much but was basically saying she still has those feelings sometimes when we are together.

I walked her to her car. She hugged me and wouldn't let go. Then we kissed. Has not happened since she left 3 months ago. She later texted that she was doing better, and sorry for today.

Is this just the final nail in the coffin or is there hope? Do I 180 or call her and tell her to come over for dinner? What do I do. I want her back so badly.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Oh boy! You got another version of "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and a sympathy kiss to keep from feeling upset. The apology was kind of a light hearted brush off to excuse herself. I have to be blunt so I could get to the advice and good news. 

The bad news first. She is going to get cold with you very soon to secure her own emotions from showing vulnerabilities with you from today. You can pretty much bet on this! She will cancel, she will avoid you, she will grow cold again.

The good news is she still loves you and has high interest in you, but her thoughts about you haven't changed. She will keep pushing you away so long as you keep saying "I love you" or doing anything to pressure her to feel any different.

What you are going to do is tell her you agree with what she wants. "You're right it's too soon for us to be around each other like we were. You need your space. It's no big deal". Then completely 180 and give her plenty of space. Let her call you from now on. Avoid trying to get involved with her life. Don't initiate any physical contact when you two are together but rather let her grow close to you.

The sooner you 180 and change all of the needy behavior you had today the better. Act like you understood what she said and agree with her but not doing it again


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You got a pity kiss. STOP BEING WEAK AROUND HER. She feels bad for you. It's not attractive how you're behaving.

YOU HAVE to stop showing how you feel. Do the 180. Geez. Stop this.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

I would advise slowing it down and be calm and collected.

Hmm. I will see my wife with our children tomorrow. Since our last MC session on Tuesday, where she said she did not have hope for our M and wanted to stop providing me false hopes, we haven't talked about us.

That being said, we texted about other stuff, joked, talked about children, etc.

Should I just keep all my conversation about everything else but us, and try to let her see my actions that I'm down the road to change?

Because, we get along great as a family. And really, there hasn't been the 1-1 communication about us in years, and only slightly during this separation, and recently in MC.


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## Wildflower3 (Nov 20, 2011)

Nsweet, how are you so wise beyond your years?!?! You should be a DB coach! 

I'm 34, been in a relationship for 15 years (well it's over now...), and am just now learning about effective communication and relationships!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Do you really want to know how I got this good?


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## Wildflower3 (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes, please!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks for those that offered advice! 

180 is the consensus. I didn't find out about 180 at the beginning so maybe this is a blessing for me that I have an opening to start fresh. Like so many say, it will help me get better as much as it will help any shot at seeing her return.

No matter how far I've gotten in this process, it doesn't get any easier to do anything other than love with all of my heart. Worship the ground she walks on and treat her as I always have. Sure will be glad when the day comes that I see it for what it is.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm glad that you recognize that worshiping the ground that she walks on makes you a doormat that she will not respect. She wants a man that she can be proud of, someone worthy to be her husband.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

It just feels so natural to me now at 24yo, but it's been a lot of hard work. Before I was counseling others on break-ups and divorce to amend for my wicked ways, I was studying the pick up artist game. I used it for mysoginistic purposes at first and then found I could help others instead of breaking hearts.

I read all the guides, books on body-language, neurolinguistic programming, applied dog training, and vocal coaching guides, to name a few. I was wicked skilled at picking up women and wrote notes over everything, every little experience was recorded and broken down. I took a few existing formulas and methods then cracked a few of the patters people go through during initial contact. 

There's some basic rules everyone unknowingly follows with first attraction a lot like the 180 list. Unfortunately not to many people know how to get past the other persons defence mechanisms when they are shutting you out and shielding themselves. Initial attraction is only skin deep and doesn't account for true character and comfort within you. And you can not have that comfort with your spouse and have them chase you unless they feel attracted to you first. 

It Darwain on the first level with physical beauty and stature, then safety and security, and mainly psychological after that involving personality characteristics that sync up with what the other person is attracted to and a lot of the same non-needy characteristics preached in the 180. You can't fake these either, you can shine once you feel confident but people can tell when you're pretending to be something you're not. 

Once they feel attracted you start getting to know each other and you share common likes and dislikes. Your experiences either tell them who you are as a person or what you have to offer. There are distinct patterns of behavioral traits certain types of people will show you once they feel comfortable and in my experience this when the red flags start to appear. You have to listen for stories of unaccountable grandure and congruency for things like cheating or emotional abuse. Narcissists love to try to get away with telling you how horrible their exes were. 

I could talk for days about this but I will try to wrap it up.

And a lot of the same phrases like "ILYBINILWY", "let's just be friends", "I don't love you like a husband should", are almost universal in relationships and you have to follow the 50/50 rule listening not to the surface, but to the hidden meanings. Body language, tonality, and facial expressionsreally give a lot of this away. 

I hope this helped and I will be happy to explain further the best I can.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

She keeps texting me tonight. I keep waiting for a long time to reply if at all. Is this actually working this quickly? Nah, but still it feels good to be thinking of myself first for a change.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Let her be the last one to text you and stop responding when the conversation dies down.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Always be the first to hang up the phone. Make something up. " i gotta run" always works.

Don't reply to text instantly. Give a couple hours before replying with no more than 5 words.

STOP saying you love her. It's annoying. When you're the one leaving, it's annoying. It's also a good way for her to control you.

Don't accept offers to meet up on the first offer. You are always busy. 



ETA: Do all this while smiling. Don't be a turd. Be charming and leave something to the imagination. She lost ALL privilege to your life when she wanted "space".  Keep the ball in YOUR court.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Once things start working (and they will) and she starts wanting more attention (and she will), DO NOT revert to your old, annoying, doormat ways.

She wants someone who respects himself so she can respect him. 

Let her know you aren't standing for her bullshet. DO NOT revert to the past. Make this your way of life right now. She has NOT earned intimacy or intimate words.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Give yourself rules that you will follow with replying to her. Say no calls or texting before 10am or after 10pm. If she texts you at 10:01pm then get back to her the next day when you feel like it. She will respect you more for not jumping through hoops to respond to her. 

If you can't think of something to say or feel too upset to call/text her that day then wait a day or two. And don't apologize for missing her calls EVER. If you're too needy to hear from her during times of no contact then tape your phone with clear plastic tape and throw it in a drawer. That way you can still hear the ringer but you know each time you think about texting her it's going to be a pain in the @$$ to unwrap and rewrap your phone every time. 

And really no call is that important that you have to answer immediately. If they call and call again then by all means pick up ASAP but for everybody else let it go to voice mail. Tell your parents and anyone who may need you but let her wonder why you're suddenly unavailable.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

I talked to my H for an hour via chat last night. That was the longest I have talked to him in over a month, it wasn't constant but almost. I usually quit chatting/texting after the second "ok" in a conversation. 

Today he came over to get some stuff I didn't want at the house and I guess I avoided eye contact so he kind of made it to where he got me to look at him in the eye. That was new and I kept eye contact up after that, it was unintentional - just protecting myself I guess from looking into his eyes hoping against all hope.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

I talked to my H for an hour via chat last night. That was the longest I have talked to him in over a month, it wasn't constant but almost. I usually quit chatting/texting after the second "ok" in a conversation. 

Today he came over to get some stuff I didn't want at the house and I guess I avoided eye contact so he kind of made it to where he got me to look at him in the eye. That was new and I kept eye contact up after that, it was unintentional - just protecting myself I guess from looking into his eyes hoping against all hope.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Take her number out of your phone. Pushing one number is easy. Dialing ALL the numbers makes you stop and think and by the time you get to the last few numbers, you'll hang up.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Take her number out of your phone. Pushing one number is easy. Dialing ALL the numbers makes you stop and think and by the time you get to the last few numbers, you'll hang up.


This is good advice, I like it.

So far she has done exactly what some of you said she would. She reached out this morning (very unusual) via text and asked about the kids. I think she must be w/out the OM right now b/c she sent several texts. I can't think she would do that if he were there. Anyway, she texted and I waited to respond and responded short and sweet.

This is really hard though. I'm wondering if there is any point? I guess it will ultimately make me better but right now it kind of has my mind going like it was at first wondering about her all the time. Keep telling myself to stay strong.

I have noticed that when I don't respond for a while or respond w/ very little her tone goes back to very short and cold. As I'm typing this, she just called!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Don't give up the 180. Don't think it's "not working".

Just do what you do, man! Get a life and get busy with other things than obessessing about this woman.

She's with OM. Yuck! Do the 180 and get strong and manly!!!


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Don't give up the 180. Don't think it's "not working".
> 
> Just do what you do, man! Get a life and get busy with other things than obessessing about this woman.
> 
> She's with OM. Yuck! Do the 180 and get strong and manly!!!


You're timing is impeccible. I've been journaling and here is what I just wrote:
"Her saying that there will always be a part of her that wants to be my wife made me melt. But, OH YEA, she’s F**KING someone else. Bullsh*t. F**k it. No more."


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, take everything she says with a grain of salt. ACTIONS speak louder than words.

Her words are saying one thing...her actions are telling you to eff off.

Nice gal. 

DO NOT get needy. DO NOT get clingy. Yuck. No more of that. You are a man. Protect your dignity and be a man.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

She reached out again. Staying strong!


So, for anyone still following this thread:
Do you really think the kiss yesterday was a pity kiss? Right after we hugged and she wouldn't let go?

I don't know, I guess I saw it as her actually being herself.


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

sd212 said:


> She reached out again. Staying strong!
> 
> 
> So, for anyone still following this thread:
> ...


I actually believe they have their moments where something triggers past emotions for you....

I believe some of them do still have love for the other, but since love is a choice they choose to not love us anymore at this point....but sometimes, they just can't help it and when things are especially nice and comfortable (old familarity) they feel that moment of love....

Hope that makes sense....

So she might really have meant the kiss at the moment, but then she woke up again and remembered that she doesn't love you anymore  ....

My ex-h still has moments like this which sends mixed signals to me....

But I'm trying hard to go 180 from now on....which will hopefully help me get past this fast....


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Rome: That sounds more like what I was feeling. This sucks so badly. The 180 is in place for me now but it sure has brought my anxiety back. 
I feel so comfortable and full of joy around her that willingly cutting that off has got my heart racing and my gut sick again. It is like I've started over with this friggin process.
I had dreams like crazy last night about her and woke up with my heart racing. I hate it but really believe this is all I have left to do. 

Kissing her was magical. But, it is like you said in that it must not have been magical for her. Just familiar. Damn.

Thanks everyone for your replies to this thread. This has been a pivotal moment for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

sd,
The 180 is to help you detach and get ready for whatever life brings you down the road. It is not intended to get your wife back although at times it has helped to do this.

Stay with it!


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