# Unhappy in Marriage But Love Wife--need some help



## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Hi. I have posted on here a little before about the 'nice guy' thing, but now I really need help. 

We have been married almost 7.5 years, together ten. 5 yr old and 2 yr old. 

I dont really know where to start, but I think over the past several years it has just worn me down. Seems like EVERYTHING is revolving around what she (W) wants, when she wants it, what she needs. I can give more specifics but the bottom line is that I am not happy and I have been trying to tell her this. 

Yesterday, we had a fight. She got very upset, said she knows we are in a bad place and she is afraid to lose me. I did comfort here but at the same time I do not want her to think that it is it and everything is ok. 

Now that we have kids, it can get very stressful and she is with them more as she is in school and not working now, and I work normal business hours. When I get home, she wants to get out. Will run errands, stop by friends, etc. Usually not a big deal but on weekends I do not want to spend my free time finding out what we will do. 

I know the 'man up' stuff, read NMMNG and MMSLP. My problem is that I cannot pretend to be so happy, upbeat, etc. In any case, she wants to talk and I am having a hard time communicating effictively that I do not want the rest of my life to revolve solely around her. I also do not want to make this a case-specific thing so she will come back with, 'well when i was doing x or x on saturday, i had to b/c of x or y reason'-- this is not a one time deal, it is ongoing. ]

Please help. I love her, I know she loves me but I need to figure out how to make her see my point of view. 

I am thinking of writing an letter/email since our conversations tend to go in circles and end up focusing on one or two events when it is not about that-- it is about overall lives. 

Thanks in advance.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

It's not so much "man up", it's improve yourself and get a life. You don't have to fake happiness, just don't be a jerk and show annoyance.

Have you done the exercises in NMMRG?

Have you tried the MAP?

Look you've allowed this or gone along with it so long she sees it as normal. She doesn't understand why you have a problem with it. She is working within the relationship, the way it has evolved because of both your personalities. When you change these dynamics it will destabilize the relationship. A good MC can help you both get through this.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

Well you will have to tell us more.
Was it ever ok. How old you both are. Its not easy projecting ones point of view. People tend to only see their own. She seems to be running away from you. Have you any idea why.

You say she wants to talk. If you dont want to listen what do you expect.

Most conversations which I suppose you mean arguments also tend to go round in circles. Have you thought of counselling.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Can you tell use more what you are talking about. Do you just want to come home and do your own thing on the weekends and have nothing to do with her or responsibilities for the household?


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

To the second post-- she is NOT running away at all. Not sure where that is coming from. I believe she is afraid to lose me b/c she has someone to really lean on and get her way always.

We got along great when we were first together like most couples, and frankly I was fine for several years doing whatever she wanted. I think with 2 kids it has gotten that much harder to do that now and I am feeling....well, basically beaten down.

This is the proplem-- I AM annoyed and sometimes angry. I rarely yell at her but 2x in the past week I have blown up just a little. 

Can i just TELL her that I am not happy and point out that I have been too nice in a way? Why not?


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

I have to agree with the guys here there is still much we need to knwo t pass any reasonable comment or advice.

However, I see one area that youve identified an issue yet have done nothing about it.

Your W is home all day? Who is looking after 2 very demanding (and trust us they are) 5 and 2 year olds during that day?
If your W is doing it she will fell exhausted by the close of play each evening. Taking these children when running errands in a tough one. One can be disfficult two can be mind numbing. There initself is a reason she need to "escape" and do things even interact wih adults as well maybe?
Could you go with her? Take the children and you baby site these as well. Let her see you work with her on this area.
Weekend. From my experience I loved these, thye were hard and demanding but I was spending some father time with my children. Id make every effort to be there, to be seen with my family and be with my wife so that I take one some of the effort require to look after these guys.
Id arrange some us time as well. If the grand parents are local would they like to see their grandchildren for a few hours whe you and your W go out togther?

Take control of some of these points and youll see that your W is not trying to take, take, take as you seem to suggest. Then you can at least start to manage the "manning up" process. Because being a good dad take some manning up to do. 

Small steps will make changes. Large changes will un-nerve your W and will lead to fear of the future. Thereafter crossed words will only follow.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

KanDo said:


> Can you tell use more what you are talking about. Do you just want to come home and do your own thing on the weekends and have nothing to do with her or responsibilities for the household?


No, that is what SHE wants. That is the problem. Would I like some free time, sure. 

Listen, maybe I have not been clear. I feel like the last 5-6 years everything I have done has been FOR HER. 

I understand the 'man up' books and plans mentioned but there are some pragmatic issues when you have 2 kids. I CANT just come home on the weekends and do whatever I want (she can though?). 

And I also have trouble not being annoyed/angry. 

I act fake? As if I am happy about this?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> I CANT just come home on the weekends and do whatever I want (she can though?).


What is it you would like to be able to do on the weekends that you feel you can't? What is it that she is doing?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't see it as being a situation where your life revolves around her. the problem is that she is a stay at home mom and you're working dad. because of this your schedules are in conflict. 

It happens a lot. 

if you get into saying that this is all her fault you're going to have nothing but trouble. the blame game is never effective. in fact it shows a lack of creativity and an unwillingness to on your part in the problem. 

where is such a word as compromise and another very simple two letter word called no. 

so you don't want to do the things she wants to do. what do you want to do instead? in what way do they conflict with what she wants and in what way do they conflict with family life; 

being a stay at home mother is very difficult on a woman psychologically. while you love your kids you long for adult conversation. just the idea of leaving the house without having car sheets and toddlers is like a dream. 

you didn't say whether visiting friends etc involve taking the children. if it does she probably wants you there to help carry the burden of those children since she does it all during the day every week. 

you stay home with the kids and let her go out by yourself? do the two of you get any alone time without the kids? 

I'd like to know the answer to those questions and to know more about your day to day life so I can see if I can help you formulate compromise. 

what the problem that you're having with resentment and feeling pushed around is one that you created. I'm saying this because we're each responsible for the decisions we make the actions that follow and the consequences. resentment is a destructive emotion that usually worn out of self pity and blame. if you don't frame the problem for what it is and you hold on to resentment you will end your marriage. do what you can to re frame the problem and get out of thisvictim mode. 

I think one of the reasons that you have trouble expressing yourself with your wife is because you know you're going to blame her and she's going to come very upset. 

so my recommendation for you is to not have this discussion until you can re frame the problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Pault said:


> I have to agree with the guys here there is still much we need to knwo t pass any reasonable comment or advice.
> 
> However, I see one area that youve identified an issue yet have done nothing about it.
> 
> ...


I dont get some of this post at all, but I get home from work and take care of the kids because she is 'done' or whatever. Fine, I dont complain. 

But our oldest is in kindergarten and out of the house from 830 am to 430 pm M-F and the 2 year old is in daycare Wed and Thurs. 

I know it is hard b/c I do it every weekend. After working all week....I love spending time with the kids and yes it is demanding. Would like to spend time with HER and the kids sometimes but she is talking on the phone or will run errands just to get out. 

My most fun this weekend was going grocery shopping by myself but before I left she told me to hurry up. This is AFTER she went to have coffee with her dad sat morning and came home at 1pm.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

you know when you have two kids she can't come and go as she pleases either. I don't think you are understanding her psychology at all. 

and pretending to be happy when you're not is pretty immature. my belief is that quote nice guys are not really nice guys. they are phony. the underlying anger that nice guys have is no fun to be around. and when you wait until you're about to burst to say anything what do you expect to happen? 

you may have read no more Mr Nice Guy but I don't think you've taken any lessons from it. it may be because you don't understand the concepts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> Would like to spend time with HER and the kids sometimes but she is talking on the phone or will run errands just to get out.


Is there anyway you can plan a family weekend getaway? Or how about a family trip to the park or another fun activity? Tell her to put the phone down and she can run errands later. Tell her, you want you, her and the kids to get away for the weekend etc.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

**********
what the problem that you're having with resentment and feeling pushed around is one that you created. I'm saying this because we're each responsible for the decisions we make the actions that follow and the consequences. resentment is a destructive emotion that usually worn out of self pity and blame. if you don't frame the problem for what it is and you hold on to resentment you will end your marriage. do what you can to re frame the problem and get out of thisvictim mode. 

I think one of the reasons that you have trouble expressing yourself with your wife is because you know you're going to blame her and she's going to come very upset. 

so my recommendation for you is to not have this discussion until you can re frame the problem.
*************

Yes, I know I created it, but I am done being unhappy. I allowed it to happen but I am not doing it anymore. 

The reason I am here is to ask how to get to the point where she is ok with this. 

Here is an email that I have composed-- tell me where I am wrong and a something better to say--

Hi. 

I did not sleep well at all again last night and I just want to tell you some things. I know we talked yesterday but I still do not feel very good about anything. Really I am not happy right now, and have not been for awhile. This is what I was trying to tell you a few weeks ago. 

I do not know where to start but I can tell you that it is not new. This did not happen when we moved to Iowa. This is not solely your fault because I guess I let it go on forever, but I feel like my life revolves around what you want and when you want it. This weekend the only time I left the house was to go to the grocery store and before I left you told me to hurry up. This feels like the majority of my weekends for most of the last 5-6 years. It was like that in CO too. Now that we are here I think you just have more other people to see and talk to. 

I do not want to give any more examples because you I know you will try to justify them all, which is fine, but even if you have a reason it is not going to make me feel better about it. I will tell you two things—

-my birthday is coming up and we do not have any money; I do not expect any material gifts from you—my main hope is for a better marriage-- but please do not talk about getting a $3,000 computer in January. I worry every week if I am going to have the $100 to pay Audra for daycare and that is just the beginning

-I am not planning any trips for next year. I am not going to CO. I did not have fun at all last year and I am not doing it again. You may not realize this, but other than the one night I started out having fun, the rest of the trip I felt like the hired nanny that is there so you can do what you want. I lived in CO too. I know people there. I did not have time to go to xxx and xxxxs or to go downtown and meet people for lunch and so forth. Vail sucked for me. Ok I don’t want to get into it anymore. 

I know this is going to upset you and I want to tell you this before it is too late for us, but I am not happy and I am not going to feel this way for the rest of my life. I need us to be partners, I need my feelings, desires, etc to matter to. I know this is my fault too for not stepping up and telling you sooner. I know you have a list of complaints/resentments as well. 

I don’t know what else to say but I love you and want to work on this.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> you know when you have two kids she can't come and go as she pleases either. I don't think you are understanding her psychology at all.
> 
> and pretending to be happy when you're not is pretty immature. my belief is that quote nice guys are not really nice guys. they are phony. the underlying anger that nice guys have is no fun to be around. and when you wait until you're about to burst to say anything what do you expect to happen?
> 
> ...


Well, maybe you could fill me in then because I am not acting happy when I am happy, but the MAP in MMSLP says to always be upbeat. How is that not phony?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Too negative! No reasons why you want to be in this marriage. No mention of your love for her or anything you like about her. Do you? 


How would you take a letter like that, with no expression of love, all thrown at your feet?

Get into MC!!!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I would recommend against this email.

I would start a conversation with her that says "I'm tired of being your doormat. I'm spending too much of my non work time watching the kids while you do whatever you please. This needs to change".

In the conversation, stick to "themes"... as below.

-- Our life is set up where you provide the majority of the child care while I provide the majority of the finances
-- I know you need free time away from the kids, and I will give that to you, but it cannot be 100% of my free time
-- We also need to spend time together as a family with the kids
-- We also need "you and me" time where we do fun things together


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

what do you mean how is it phony;? dishonesty is dis honesty. 

You are copping an attitude with us this is representative of your general personality I can see why your marriage is having difficulty. I'm getting the impression that you are a whiner. 

no more Mr Nice Guy isn't being a jerk and its not being fake. it's about asserting yourself and it's about making yourself happy. it's about letting people know where you stand and having boundaries. perhaps you spent so much time trying to be a people pleaser that you really can't fathom what this is like and how it can benefit you and your wife. 

you do realize that your wife does what she does because you allow it. 

I think we want to take a two pronged approach on this. number one is working on your attitude because quite honestly its poor. and number 2 is reframing the problem so that you can see it clearly and stop blaming your wife. 

she has some work to do as well but she can't make any changes until you do. 

there's a very simple phrase say what you mean and mean what you say. if you don't say what you mean and you don't mean what you say when you leave the other person guessing what you really mean and what you really feel. and this is how it plays out... this is exactly the situation that you still in the dynamics of your marriage and your family. 

also tell us about your mom. strong lady? or was she whining and demanding?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

trey69 said:


> Is there anyway you can plan a family weekend getaway? Or how about a family trip to the park or another fun activity? Tell her to put the phone down and she can run errands later. Tell her, you want you, her and the kids to get away for the weekend etc.


:iagree: Yep, since you stated on the first page you would like to do something with her and the kids, this is a good place to start.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Too negative! No reasons why you want to be in this marriage. No mention of your love for her or anything you like about her. Do you?
> 
> 
> How would you take a letter like that, with no expression of love, all thrown at your feet?
> ...


I think he needs individual counseling. marriage counseling at this point would be a disaster. the critical thing is finding an individual counselor who is also pro marriage. too many counselors will prop up the idea that you have a right to be happy and, yeah I can see why you're unhappy, it is all her fault. .

if he has the guts to enter into individual counseling recognizing that the problem is his own and that he needs to be fixed before he can hope to fix the marriage he and his wife would benefit greatly. 

I think I dropped here might be to help prepare him to enter into individual counseling with the correct attitude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> you do realize that your wife does what she does because you allow it.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perhaps he does realize it, and thats part of the problem. Maybe he holds more anger towards himself for allowing it than he does towards her for doing it, but the anger is directed at her. I would think thats misguided anger IMO. Counseling is needed.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

sorry that should read "our job" here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm not sure that he does realize that he is the problem. he knows there is a problem but his idea is to become a jerk rather than a well-adjusted person. and this is part of the situation he set up by waiting until he was so angry that he can't think straight. 

this "I'm not gonna take it anymore" crap is not going to fly. if he claims to love his wife and he does want to stay married he needs to stop being reactive. 

I really do not recommend having any conversation with your wife about this until you get into counseling and work on yourself. that way she can see gradual changes in you that she'll be able to adjust to on a more natural time schedule.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

OP, I know we're giving you a really hard time. please look at it as tough love. we want your marriage to succeed. and we want you to succeed. but we have to address the problems in the correct order.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> I'm not sure that he does realize that he is the problem. he knows there is a problem but his idea is to become a jerk rather than a well-adjusted person. and this is part of the situation he set up by waiting until he was so angry that he can't think straight.
> 
> this "I'm not gonna take it anymore" crap is not going to fly. if he claims to love his wife and he does want to stay married he needs to stop being reactive.
> 
> ...


I just got names of marriage counselors through my employer's program. 

So you think I could go alone? 

The reason I sounded hostile is because I am confused and did not do a good job of expressing my situation clearly, however 'this crap is not gonna fly anymore is' exactly how I am feeling right now. 

Also, am I incorrect in my interpretation of the MAP as:

-always be upbeat and positive - even if you dont feel that way

-go off and do your own thing -- this one i rarely do b/c I cant just take off on sat morning having 2 kids without discussing it

Thanks for your help.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Go it alone and explain your position. 

I'm sure a good MC could advise you as to what to do, along with when and how to include your wife.

They should also be able to refer or conduct IC.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

The MC wants my wife to come w/ me. Said no reason to come alone if main reason for this is my marriage and if at some point something comes up that would indicate need for IC I could go that route then.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Maybe she will 'hear' you in a third party environment. After all it's taken you seek MC to get her attention.

Go together and talk about your frustration.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Maybe she will 'hear' you in a third party environment. After all it's taken you seek MC to get her attention.
> 
> Go together and talk about your frustration.


W is pissed that I didnt call the MC that she has heard of. Christ.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

Reading now a bit more of what you wrote.
You say you love your wife I must say I find it hard to believe. You also say that the kids are out of the house most of the day and you have money problems. Who needs such a dear computer? 

Why isnt your wife working if the kids are not all day at home. I would think she has plenty of time. To tell you to 'hurry' I can quite understand you dont like it, I wouldnt. 

Does she order you about all the time. That is the first thing you have to stop. Tell her from now onwards if she needs something from you she has to write it down and not 'tell' you to your face.

Do not send an email blaming her that would make things worse. 

Like others have said you have to 'man' up. And the first thing is to treat you properly. Dont give in on this. 

Counsellors are usually not good at all and make things worse and charge fees you can ill afford. They wont tell you who is right or wrong, that is not the way they work. They will spend long fruitless hours (and charge huge fees) trying to make you both 'understand' which you never will. Dont waste your money there unless you know in advance they will make decisions how you should run your life which is really what you both want. 

If you persevere you should win through here and then you will come to love her.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Counsellors are usually not good at all and make things worse and charge fees you can ill afford. They wont tell you who is right or wrong, that is not the way they work. They will spend long fruitless hours (and charge huge fees) trying to make you both 'understand' which you never will. Dont waste your money there unless you know in advance they will make decisions how you should run your life which is really what you both want. 

***********

I find it interesting that comments like this are scattered here and there throughout this website, which apparently generates revenue through MC. 

From what I am told, the MC is covered 100% by insurance with no co pay. 

Tell me more.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your marriage is crying for some organization. Figure out what you want to do on the weekends and then talk to your wife. You each have a right to some me time. Weekends can be divided into me time, family time and us time. 

Frankly, you can't blame her for driving the bus to Hooterville if you
haven't told her you want to go to Hogwallow.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

accept1 said:


> Counsellors are usually not good at all and make things worse and charge fees you can ill afford. They wont tell you who is right or wrong, that is not the way they work. They will spend long fruitless hours (and charge huge fees) trying to make you both 'understand' which you never will. Dont waste your money there unless you know in advance they will make decisions how you should run your life which is really what you both want.


Generalize much? Project much?

Where can we find this information? What school, accredited board, state or governing agency has this information? How about any investigative agency or the journalist community?

You make it sound as if one might as well get the same results from a gypsy card reader.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Action is more important than words.

Read Bagdon's thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Is there a link to this thread somewhere? 

I understand, again, that this is probably a MAP thing where I should just pretend to be happy, upbeat, etc., when in fact I am not at all. 

I love that stuff.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Mo42 said:


> Is there a link to this thread somewhere?
> 
> I understand, again, that this is probably a MAP thing where I should just pretend to be happy, upbeat, etc., when in fact I am not at all.
> 
> I love that stuff.


You know that your wife isn't responsible for you being happy. If you continue to put that on her, you will continue to be disappointed.

If you want your circumstances to change, you need to be the one changing the circumstances. You are the master of your domain, so act like it.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> You know that your wife isn't responsible for you being happy. If you continue to put that on her, you will continue to be disappointed.
> 
> If you want your circumstances to change, you need to be the one changing the circumstances. You are the master of your domain, so act like it.


Yes, yes. 

Tell me more!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Don't do the email thing. Start small and on a day to day basis making changes. She asks you for something or to do something you don't want to do, just say NO. If she balks, tell her you don't enjoy it, and then suggest something else.

Actions speak louder than words.

Refocus, and recognize you helped create the monster. To diffuse it, you have to start doing the opposite of what you have been.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Don't do the email thing. Start small and on a day to day basis making changes. She asks you for something or to do something you don't want to do, just say NO. If she balks, tell her you don't enjoy it, and then suggest something else.
> 
> Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> Refocus, and recognize you helped create the monster. To diffuse it, you have to start doing the opposite of what you have been.


Thanks for some practical advice. Statements like this actually help. 

This 'be the master of your domain' garbage is not useful. I know, I know, it came from the NMMNG and MMSLP and so forth, but do people realize that making 'studly' generalizations is not helpful (besides how silly the whole thing sounds)? 

"Be the master of your domain". What is this, dungeons and dragons?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Now that we have kids, it can get very stressful and she is with them more as she is in school and not working now, and I work normal business hours. When I get home, she wants to get out. Will run errands, stop by friends, etc. Usually not a big deal but on weekends I do not want to spend my free time finding out what we will do."

So, be the master of your domain. Get it, now? Don't wait for your wife to solve your problem - you take the initiative for how you are going to spend the weekend. It's your weekend, too, and your life. Live it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Mo42 said:


> Thanks for some practical advice. Statements like this actually help.
> 
> This 'be the master of your domain' garbage is not useful. I know, I know, it came from the NMMNG and MMSLP and so forth, but do people realize that making 'studly' generalizations is not helpful (besides how silly the whole thing sounds)?
> 
> "Be the master of your domain". What is this, dungeons and dragons?


LOL. I didn't read the NMMNG MMSLP so I apologize if the reference triggered you. 

All I'm saying is, if my H was my puppet all these years, it would be both a bit frightening and a welcome change to see him stand up to me. I'm a pretty assertive strong minded girl, but when my H says NO I know he means it and it's very attractive. I don't want a pushover. I want a true partner, and an honest partner that can stand his ground is hot.

Stop being a pushover and stand your ground. That's what I'm saying when I say be the master of your domain.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Also, changing this won't happen overnight. It's a day by day conscious effort that you have to make to say NO or do the things you want to do. If you want time to yourself, don't be a jerk about it, but tell your wife what your plans are and do them. If the kids need attention for that time because it happens to be on a day she has plans, then work together so that both of you are happy. Get a sitter, call family, tag team it, whatever you have to do. There's no reason BOTH of you can't have a good time.

Start planning family dates... don't just leave that to your wife. Get the calendar out and work out a day and activity you all will enjoy. Explain to her that these are the types of activities you've wanted to do more of. She may look at you like you grew a horn out of your forehead, but again, she's not used to seeing you like this.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> LOL. I didn't read the NMMNG MMSLP so I apologize if the reference triggered you.
> 
> All I'm saying is, if my H was my puppet all these years, it would be both a bit frightening and a welcome change to see him stand up to me. I'm a pretty assertive strong minded girl, but when my H says NO I know he means it and it's very attractive. I don't want a pushover. I want a true partner, and an honest partner that can stand his ground is hot.
> 
> Stop being a pushover and stand your ground. That's what I'm saying when I say be the master of your domain.


Sorry I was not referencing you re the 'be the master of your domain' comment, but the previous poster--whose post consisted of 4-5 cliches, listed one after the other. 

Your advice is more specific and helpful. I appreciate being reminded that while i THINK she is going so be upset when I say no or go out on my own, it is actually respected. 

I actually set up an appt on my own for MC and invited her to come and while she was initially upset that we didnt talk about it (and who to go see), in the back of her mind she was glad I went and did it.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Mo42 said:


> The MC wants my wife to come w/ me. Said no reason to come alone if main reason for this is my marriage and if at some point something comes up that would indicate need for IC I could go that route then.


The marriage counsellor is right longer term but short term you are looking into yourself so that MC is more productive. 

Our MC did the same thing. So I finally went with him expecting that he had made some progress only to hear the same old nonsense. I was livid. I have never been as upset as I was at that moment. I won't go back until there is a reasonable chance of a different outcome. I love My H Very much but I will not set myself up again. I think the harping on my participation left my house feeling that he didn't have to focus on the reasons he went in the first place. Try not to fall into that trap. 

The therapist being marriage minded is good. But if you explain your reasons for wanting to work on yourself so you can be more effective when she finally joins you, he/she should understand and support you. If they can't do that maybe they are stuck on a formula they can't break out of and they aren't for you. You want someone who can does couples but is flexible enough to let you choose the direction and goal of therapy. 

I haven't read late yesterday's or today's posts yet. Sorry ifiam repeating something someone else already said. I am heartend by your willingness to take action.
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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Mo42 said:


> Counsellors are usually not good at all and make things worse and charge fees you can ill afford. They wont tell you who is right or wrong, that is not the way they work. They will spend long fruitless hours (and charge huge fees) trying to make you both 'understand' which you never will. Dont waste your money there unless you know in advance they will make decisions how you should run your life which is really what you both want. .


Actually, a therapist who is honest will tell you what they think. They can't ask you for honest you while not being Open with you. 

The point of going yourself at first is so you can formulate a productive dialog with your wife based on self knowledge, consideration for her feelings and a desire to make things better for both of you. 

People who listen to a therapist but do not think for themselves, do not challenge when the advice doesn't make sense or fit with your values and goals are likely to gain little and potentially do harm.
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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> LOL. I didn't read the NMMNG MMSLP so I apologize if the reference triggered you.
> 
> All I'm saying is, if my H was my puppet all these years, it would be both a bit frightening and a welcome change to see him stand up to me. I'm a pretty assertive strong minded girl, but when my H says NO I know he means it and it's very attractive. I don't want a pushover. I want a true partner, and an honest partner that can stand his ground.


Her being upset with to our much assertiveness too soon is a real concern. The entire relationship will change when a"nice" guy establishes boundaries and speaks his mind. It is guaranteed if the new found changes are at all mean, unsympathetic and just selfish. That's why therapy as a precursor to MC is a good idea. 

The relationship need something to change.  She needs to be given time to adjust to a man she has known through her own interpreting more than through his willingness to be honest. 

Whatever you do do not blame her for your feelings. You recognize dishonest you has made it hard to have an intimate relationshipbecause you aren't sharing your thoughts and feelings. She can't know you and you want her to know you. You want to enrich your lives by sharing what you know, are interested in, and like. You'd like her to give you room to grow and to get closer to her. 

An important part of a relationship is sharing experiences. Another part is bringing things into the relationship. Sometimes that means doing things apart so you can recharge but also have things to talk about. 

Can either of you remember the last time one of you were excited about something you did out learned that you were just busting to share with the other? 

Passion is a wonderful quality. 

I hope your wife likes you enough to want to share your joy and vice- versa. You will have to encourage her to follow some of her interests, too. Don't be surprised of she resists at first. It can seem self serving. 

Take it slow.
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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/122770-opinions-mc.html
To clipclop2 please post on the above thread


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