# Is She Serious? Can this possibly work?



## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

Will try to be short and to the point.

Wife has told me she is considering a trial separation. Says she loves me but is not in love with me.

Married 25 years
Two girls 19 and 21 living at home for school and such.
We both have contributed to it coming to this.
She has agreed to counselling (probably to appease me) but is thinking about what she can afford to rent, where to stay, what to say to kids, etc....

I don't want to do this by trial and error so I am into counselling to see if the marriage can be saved and, failing that, how to best proceed.

HERE IS MY BIGGEST DILEMMA. 
We run a successful small business together (yes, we've been working side by side for the last ten years AND living together Yikes!)
She seems to think that we can separate, still work together every day and be friends and so on. Does not know what else she can to do make the same good money at a job she loves. Thinks the health of the business and is success is due to and dependant on both of us being there. 

I just do not see how this can possibly work. I think if we do indeed go the route of separation that we really need to separate. Not work together, minimal communication, real time away, etc...
We both need to feel what it's like to be on our own, the freedom, eating alone, the financial ramifications, the whole gammut of consequences. 

I know that it would not be easy but I feel it's the only way for it to be a REAL separation.

So....... am I being logical or way off base? 

Thanks for any input you can offer.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

So go to counseling ASAP to figure out the best way for you two to separate. Especially while she is thinking in a friendly, get-along kind of way. 

Might want to see a financial planner too.... to figure out the business questions.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

MaxGlide said:


> Does not know what else she can to do make the same good money at a job she loves.


This isn't your problem

She wants to leave then that means she has to get ANOTHER job.

I'm with you there is no way I can see this working.

Legally though I'm not sure what your options are. Is she a 50% owner?


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## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

SunnyT, I will be booking our first session for this week. I am very excited to get this going after so many years of simmering unease, discontent and trying to figure out what to do to feel like I am really loved. Regardless of whether it leads to saving the marriage or moving on. 
I love her very much but things have to change. 

Mavash.... That just seems like she's keeping me/the business as her safety blanket. "If I stay close enough and my search for love/passion doesn't work out then he's close by" If, after counselling it still leads to her wanting to separate then i do feel it is her who has to move out, get another job, etc... Not to punish her but to really be separated. It will surely be difficult financially and emotionally for both of us but it can't stop either of us from doing what must be done. 

Thanks for your input. 

PS: sure is hard having no intimacy and I don't mean sex. I mean, hugging, pecks on the cheek, touching.... did not think it would be that hard.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There are no vacations in marriage. A little odd that she can partner with you at work but not at home. What are the odds that there's someone else she finds interesting?


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Usually when someone wants a trial separation it's to see if their side relationship works out or not. You are plan B.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

MaxGlide said:


> Wife has told me she is considering a trial separation. Says she loves me but is not in love with me.


Trial separation and ILYBINILWY are slightly different versions of the same statement. The almost always (99% of the time) mean the following: Translated, TS means
_" I need more time with my affair partner(s) and it's going to be too tough for me to do it while you're in the picture."_

The translation of ILYBINILWY is:
_" I'm having sex with another man and the bonding chemicals released by my orgasms (oxytocin) are doing their job and now I'm more invested in my other man. I've also become addicted to the crack-like high I get from the PEA, dopamine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, testosterone, etc that is released at orgasm. I also like the mood elevating chemicals in OM's semen. That's why we women never use rubbers during affair sex."_




MaxGlide said:


> Married 25 years
> Two girls 19 and 21 living at home for school and such.
> We both have contributed to it coming to this.


Why? Did you give her the okay to have an affair? Do you have an open marriage?



MaxGlide said:


> She has agreed to counselling (probably to appease me) but is thinking about what she can afford to rent, where to stay, what to say to kids, etc....


You're correct. This is merely window dressing so she can say she did all she could for the marriage, even while she has embarked on a home wrecking affair.



MaxGlide said:


> I don't want to do this by trial and error so I am into counselling to see if the marriage can be saved and, failing that, how to best proceed.


Counselling won't work until you bust up her affair. If adultery is a deal killer for you, just go ahead and file on her ass. If you live in a fault state where adultery still matters you'll need proof, first. If you want to save the marriage, you'll still need proof to shock her out of the affair and get control of the narrative with the family.



MaxGlide said:


> HERE IS MY BIGGEST DILEMMA.
> We run a successful small business together (yes, we've been working side by side for the last ten years AND living together Yikes!)
> She seems to think that we can separate, still work together every day and be friends and so on. Does not know what else she can to do make the same good money at a job she loves. Thinks the health of the business and is success is due to and dependant on both of us being there.
> 
> ...


Your thoughts are correct. I take it she wants an apartment funded by the common bank account. Screw that if you want to reconcile, but it's okay if you want to divorce. 

Do you know how to run a quick infidelity investigation on your wife?

How long has your sex life been crappy?

Also, have the mods move this to "Coping With Infidelity"


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

MaxGlide said:


> PS: sure is hard having no intimacy and I don't mean sex. I mean, hugging, pecks on the cheek, touching.... did not think it would be that hard.


Standard once the affair gets underway for most women, although there are exceptions.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

MG,

Mach is right. You need to look and see if she's involved with anyone else. She's displaying some of the typical signs here.

QUIETLY do the following:

Get into the cell phone account on line and look for alot of texts/calls to 1 or 2 numbers

Go out and buy at least 2 VARS (voice activated recorders) and put one under the front seat of her car with heavy duty velcro. Keep the other one so you can switch it out so you can listen to the first one. 

Get a keylogger on the PC NOW.

Before spending any more money on a counselor, you need to answer this question!

Many spouses will attend counseling so that when they finally dump you for their affair partner they can tell everyone they TRIED to save the marriage! "We even went to see a great counselor and did everthing he/she told us BUT......"


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If she wants a separation, and you feel you can handle the business without her, then she needs to completely be on her own without you (or the business) being her Plan B. She can find her own safety net.


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## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

Wow! Lots of great info! Thanks so much everyone!

Okays..some info without being too lengthy.

- I didn't think the sex was ****ty. 1-2 times per week and she would have up to four orgasms
- We were both bored with the same ol' so we tried toys, soft and hard porn, threesome with another guy (never wanted to do another woman) 
- we agreed to try flings out side the marriage and I only did so on the condition we were both solid (which I thought we were, though deep downfa I had doubts gnawing at me)
- We tried a sex club but both found that wasn't for us. We never "played" with others
- adultery is not a deal breaker, dishonesty is.
-i have outright asked her if there was/is another and she says no.
- She did not initially want counseling but after finally opening up to a few friends. who all told her she should try counseling, she said she would give it a shot.

Here is something that I think has deeply affected her and how she has dealt with it governs how she deals with everything else in life...
Her mother suffered a long term illness and took her own life when my wife was eighteen. The a year later her father "died of a broken heart" as she puts it and also took his life. She was the rock of the family, swept her emotions aside and never took any counseling. She has never really opened up to me about it.

That being said, she is an amazing woman, strong, confident, a superb mother and friend to many. Takes care of herself health wise (physically anyway). You would never know she had this past or that we have any problems at all. Guaranteed no one around us knows a thins unless we tell them.

I am ready to go whatever avenue to see if it is salvageable but I am no longer willing to feel like I'm the only one who is vulnerable. She is like a machine, I never know when something really affects her. 
I also get the impression that whatever feelings I have about things are trivial to her , like she's thinking "Do you know what I've been thru and survived? That is so minor..."

So I don't want to be an ass but I can't bear to be the emotional one anymore. And if it does come to separation, I don't want to strong arm her, but she has to know what she can't have her cake and eat it too.

Thanks so much for being a sounding board.

PS: I really feel uncomfortable with spying..... but I hear you all on the affair thing..... will ponder that. I'm not dismissing that possibility. EYES WIDE OPEN


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Here's how I see it - It can work. 

I'm not weighing in on whether the marriage is over or not (my cynical self believes it's done), but whether this arrangement makes sense.

If she was the primary owner of the business and you were employed and paid a decent wage, would you quit just because she decided she no longer wanted to be married to you?

It's not going to be pleasant, it will totally suck. But it can work. I know people who separated but still remain legally marriage because of the high cost of unravelling a marriage (as well as taxation purposes).


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## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

Of course it could be made to work but that is a route I am not willing to go. I get to be separated from a marriage I hoped would work and now I have to look at her EVERY DAY? NO way we can move on in that situation.

It's gonna be hard and ****ty for both of us but so be it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MaxGlide said:


> Wow! Lots of great info! Thanks so much everyone!
> 
> Okays..some info without being too lengthy.
> 
> ...


You have to know what you are up against and there is no privacy in marriage. VAR in the car within a few days you will get your answer one way or another.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

This can't be true.... You guys did all that and you are surprised it failed?

Sex with another man is adultery no matter if you said yes to it or not. 

I'm actually shocked you wrote here wanting help when you LET your wife have another man.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Your wife kissed another guy (while you are married) and liked it

She's realized (with your blessing) that there's more to the sexual world than just you. 

I'd go the VAR route if you really want to find out if she's lying and cheating on you


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Sex with another man is adultery no matter if you said yes to it or not.


I disagree. Adultery cannot happen with the express permission of one's partner.


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## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

Well I realize now that it was not likely the way to go. I knew she was unhappy and was willing to try anything to keep it going. But we tried a lot of things together before going with others. I was looking for one result and her another.

But yeah.... I get it..... if there is honesty I can deal with it....but it seems it is lacking on her side.

I know I have my share of the blame, I'm ready to hear those things honestly deal with whatever I am able to. I've worked hard at being a good person, respectful, supportive, give her space, I have outside interests/friends/etc and so does she. She never has to ask if she is allowed to do anything. She goes out with friends, rides a motorcycle, etc.. I do my share of cooking, wash my own clothes, do some housework. Not to appease her but because its the fair thing to do. 

Anyway, none of that matters now. 

I simply wanted to know if being hard line about IF we separate and that feeling there is no way I can work with her, was reasonable? 

We are going to have to figure something out to really be apart.

I got to ease off now on trying to figure it out or I am going to explode!!

Thanks again all


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## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

caladan said:


> I disagree. Adultery cannot happen with the express permission of one's partner.


That's how I feel...... We were clear in our permissions.... I guess just not in what we were looking for.... but I am assuming...

Jason, maybe that's how she feels..... not me..... I'll see if that comes out...


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## AMRAP (Feb 21, 2013)

I own several businesses. Since both of your income is from your business, one should buy the other one out over time. If the business is making $100K per year come up with a multiple. Say 3.5-5 range plus any substantial assets. So the buyout would be $350-$500K. If you both own 50% the buyout is $175-$250K. The buyout would be over an agreed amount of years if you cannot get financing.

If you get back together you just combine your assets and resources again.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Okay, Max. Yes, no question she's banging others, so there is no need to investigate any of that. All the swingers I've ever known IRL ended up divorced and that was a lot, and always involved getting it on with others outside of the agreed upon boundaries. I do know some guys on the internet who were able to stay together, but you never know about the internet.

You will be sorting the business property division out as part of the divorce based on the laws of your state. Is it a corporation, partnership, sole proprietor LLC or what? Is your state community property?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

caladan said:


> I disagree. Adultery cannot happen with the express permission of one's partner.


The actual traditional definition of adultery is a married woman having sex with a man who is not her husband. That's it. It is a crime against the husband by the woman and her paramour. It's called "adultery" because it has the potential to cuckold the husband (in the original meaning of the word) and cause his lineage to be "adulterated" by the other mans' bastard. Now, criminal charges of adultery, in jurisdictions where adultery remains illegal, cannot be brought against the wife and her paramour if the husband approved or connived to make the adultery happen or if the husband had sex with the wife after learning of the adultery.

Whether or not the husband connived or approved, it's still adultery, it's just not prosecutable.


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## Goldfinch (Jan 22, 2013)

diwali123 said:


> Usually when someone wants a trial separation it's to see if their side relationship works out or not. You are plan B.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to totally disagree with this. I am separating from my husband and I have never had a side relationship in the 26 years we have been together. 

As for the business, I know two couples who owned a business together and separated. One of the couples got back together because the wife couldn't run the business without the husband, and they didn't want to sell the business. The other couple is currently still separated, but working together. The husband had an affair and left the family, but the wife has always worked in his office and continues to work there to be sure that he doesn't screw around with the financial operations of the business.

If you and your wife both own the business you either continue to work together, or sell the business, or one of you buys the other out.


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## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

Okay...this is getting way off topi.

My original question was whether the separation and still working together was reasonable and could even be called a real separation? After thinking a lot about it, talking to friends and reading input here I feel that I would not be able to do that. 

If that time comes, I will be fair and honest with the whole thing. It will likely involve buy out on either part, and that is just the start of our work. We're gonna have to think about the rest of our belongings and finances too......... yikes.... head hurts thinking about it.....

I started to snoop phone records but just felt too awful. I've asked her outright to be honest with everything, I am not yelling, crying, freaking out, etc at what I have and might hear (as a matter of fact I am surprised at how calm (somewhat) I feel about this?) If she chooses to hide things then that is her lot to deal with. 

All the marital screw ups we have done may be aired out and may be dealt with in counseling. I will leave nothing on the table. If she doesn't give it 100%, then I can't do anything about that.

I really want to feel that i did what I could, was fair, considerate, etc..... so that for the rest of my life, I can be happy with how I handled it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Max,

The reason people keep telling you to investigate is so that you know what you're dealing with here. Trying to fix a marriage where one of the partners has fallen out of love requires one type of approach while trying to fix one that involves adultery is a whole different animal and requires a completely different approach.

It's like telling a doctor over the phone that you have a cough. If you don't tell him you've been a smoker for 25 years and you also have asthma, he can't get a clear idea of what could be going on or how to TREAT the symptoms. 

Sorry to be a bit blunt here but simply choosing to be uneducated about this situation and sticking your head in the sand will not help you at all.


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## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

Oh I completely understand that I need to find out in the end. she has agreed to couples counselling, maybe it will come out there. 

Now that I have initiated this path (I am the one who asked her 'hey sweetie, what's going on with us?" and she finally let it out she was not happy) even if she had a near death experience and said ' I don't know what I was thinking, forget about what i said..." I would not go back to the way it was. We have to get counselling, we have to figure out what brought it to this and I absolutely have to be sure there was no one else. 

surprisingly I am not freaking out this time like the last time it was rough between us..... It ain't all roses but I feel lighter, like i've finally gone in a direction that is conducive to happiness.

All right.... I feel like I've been obsessing the last few days. We have our first counselling session this week, we'll see where it goes. I gotta get on with life..... 

Thanks again all for your input. I appreciate it all.

Max


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Max,

It's often advised that spending money on MC is a wate if one of the spouses is involved in an affair.

Again, you really should KNOW what it is that you're dealing with!


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

maxglide - I personally think it could work if your were emotionally detached from each other...it sounds like your W has already detached...thus feels like this situation can work.

You on the other hand...

Sorry this must be a very painful time for you!


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## MaxGlide (Apr 8, 2013)

Sorry I've not replied, lotsa work due to short staff, wife having hernia operation, emotions running a bit amok, reading the Married Man Sex Life Primer.

Quick update.... had some good talks with wife, outright asked her if there was an EA or PA or if she had someone in mind. She said no. I snooped cell phone bills, she is never on computer. so no proof of anything there.

We took a consultation for info on marriage counselling. She said she does not feel that talking about any of this is gonna help, especially having to "PAY FOR IT!!"

So she's checked out and wants to move ahead with the separation and see if maybe in a while she might feel different, knowing I might not want her back. I have decided that even if she comes back in X amount of time and says "I"m sorry, the grass was not greener and I want to get back together" That I am not happy with that. I need to see that she is dealing with whatever demons she has/had and that we can develop a better way of communicating so as to not just end up in the same pickle.

So I need advice on how and how fast to proceed.

I feel like I need to do it as soon as possible if we are going to anyway.
I feel that she should move out since she is the one who wants to go and does not want to do anything to see if things can be salvaged, 
Working together "as good business partners" is not an option for me as it is not a true separation. It doesn't move us in any direction at all and is not conducive to any healing.

Plus I don't want to have to see someone every day who I know does not love me. I wanna try and move on too. 

So yeah... point me to some links, or whatever, to get me going in the right direction.

thanks so much for all your help. This forum, and the MMSL forum have helped me stay on a more even keel.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

MaxGlide said:


> Quick update.... had some good talks with wife, outright asked her if there was an EA or PA or if she had someone in mind. She said no. I snooped cell phone bills, she is never on computer. so no proof of anything there.
> 
> *Max, do some reading in the CWI section. Rarely does a wayward spouse admit to an affair without hard evidence in front of them.*
> 
> ...


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

Well, Max, you certainly are in a pickle. You both went outside the marriage for sex so I'm going to call that a wash so you really shouldn't hold that over her head if you want to get back together. 

If she really wants to separate then I agree with others here and will say that one of you needs to buy the other out and that you are right in facing the consequences of this action. However, if she is still clinging onto working together and being friends then she is not done with this relationship by a long shot. MC is not a one and done process. Do not stop going. 

Now, I typically go against the grain in these kinds of threads. You've already said that adultry is not a deal breaker but lying is. So now you have to provide your wife with an atmosphere that she will not be judged for being honest with you. It doesn't matter if it's an affair or if is the demons of her past. She needs to feel absolutely comfortable revealing things to you. Often times having an impartial MC there with you helps this process. If she says "I don't know" or "I'm confused" these are legit feelings and she should not be judged harshly for them. "I'm confused" is by far better than "ILYBINILWY"

Remember if you want to heal your marriage you can not do that by _breaking _your wife. We hate for people to reach rock bottom before they see the error of their ways. But that is usually the way things work. So the question becomes are you ready to reach rock bottom with her? There is no shame in saying no. If, however, you say yes then you have to prepare yourself for a long arduous journey but reap the reward in the end. It's up to you.


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