# Finally fixing the lack of sex, hopefully.



## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

So, I'm sorry, but given the topic, this is about to get very, very graphic. Be warned.

After six and a half years of marriage, I have decided that Mr. S. and I need to begin to have a normal sex life. We need to learn how to have sex. It's what other couples do, so we should be doing it, too. Most people say they need sex with their spouse to be happy in the relationship, so maybe I do, too. Most of the reasoning behind this decision to finally care about our sex life comes from my BPD, which is currently in overdrive telling me that he never found me attractive and that he's either going to leave or I'm going to be miserable if I don't give him five orgasms a week. I came really close to asking him for a divorce even though I *REALLY* want to stay with him. I had a panic attack just thinking about ending our marriage and made myself ill because it was such a horrible thought. But, if it's true that he's not attracted to me and doesn't want me, what's the point? Fortunately for us both, a friend of mine talked me out of it and told me I was being crazy. I hope she's right. Not being able to tell the difference between my thoughts and reality is a very vulnerable and dangerous place.

We were virgins when we married six and a half years ago and we still don't know how to pleasure each other. We have V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y learned the mechanics of sex, like how he has to angle himself, how I have to relax, etc. But we don't know how to make it feel good. In six years, we've had sex maybe twenty times. He's given me two orgasms. I've given him _none_. He doesn't even get hard from kissing me or fondling me or making out or anything. I have to stimulate him. And that's as far as it ever goes. I don't know if he's even capable of climaxing for I've never seen him do it. He says he is though, when he's alone. I feel like an abject failure as a woman because I was socialized since puberty to believe that lust is most of what drives a man to love a woman, that men would copulate with a pineapple if left to their own devices, and that it's a woman's job to constantly fend off male "suitors" and defend her purity. This has categorically not been the case with my husband.

One problem is he can't pull his foreskin back. I bought him some stretching rings that look like ear gauges to stretch his foreskin out. He uses them sometimes. It's his New Years' Resolution to use them every day.

Yesterday evening we had sex. I had the spare bedroom made up with lots of tissues and tea because I knew I was going to end the night in anguish over being, apparently, the worst lay ever if I can't even get my own husband off. But, actually, relatively speaking it wasn't terrible. We bought flavored lube yesterday and he gave me oral for the first time ever tonight and we 69'ed for the first time ever as well. 

I felt a little pleasure, but mostly I faked my orgasm. I don't mind doing that. Honestly, I don't care at this point if I ever climax with him again; I just want him to want me. As I was lying beneath him I cupped his face in my hands and told him to open his eyes and look at me because he usually closes his eyes when we have sex and I wanted to know he was really seeing me. He did so.

After we'd decided we'd finished because his muscles were too tired to keep thrusting, with him still inside me, he told me I was glowing. Unprompted, he lay on top of me and told me that laying with me felt warm, and comforting, and right. His words. He said he wanted us to have sex every day from now on, scheduled, otherwise we'd never learn how to do it. I nearly cried, and I told him maybe every other day would be best, to give us time to physically and emotionally recover. He agreed.

Other than the sexual pleasure issue, our relationship is pretty good. We hug and kiss and cuddle and tease constantly; it just never goes further than that. We seem to have good chemistry. We seldom have an argument and when we do we're gentle about it. We talk. We tell each other we love each other and have dates and cutesy nicknames and go out together a few times a week.

We talk about this sometimes. I've told him how I feel like less of a woman because men are "supposed" to be dogs and yet I can't make him finish. He says he understands how I could feel that way, it's not my fault, I'm beautiful, he's attracted to me, I'm his type... but then he still doesn't seem to want me any more than usual. I've brought up going to counselling or sex therapy and he says maybe, once he puts in a dedicated effort with those stretching gauges and decides they won't help. I've brought up getting him circumcised and he says only as a very last resort because we live in the US and anything medical is stupidly expensive.

I've asked if he's gay or bi and told him outright I'll happily let him sleep with men if he's safe about it and nothing otherwise changes between us. He swears he's not into men. I've asked him if he's cheating, though I doubt it because he's always on his computer programming or playing offline games, (and yes, I'll sit there sometimes and watch him) and he's never not at home, no deleted texts or suspicious apps or anything else. He says the problem is just that he is under-sensitive because of his phimosis and he has trained himself accidentally to only respond to his hand.

Tomorrow night, we're going to try again with love-making, hopefully. We've set up a calendar in the living room (which has worked well before with a different foreskin-stretching device he tried to use for two months before I bought him this new one) and we'll mark it with an "X" on the nights he uses his stretching rings, and with a heart on the nights we make love.

I'm petrified. I'm sitting here at 5 in the morning binge-drinking herbal tea (I'm on my fourth pot this evening) because I am terrified of _rejection._ I'm scared he might turn me down altogether, and I'm scared he might hate lying with me. I'm afraid he doesn't want me.

I told him tonight that the part I dislike the most about making love to him is after we clean up and return to doing what we were doing, because it's then that I acknowledge that I hadn't satisfied him-- again-- and tally up another point on the "Reasons Ella is unattractive" scoreboard. I asked if we could therefore set aside time after sex for some after-care together. We could cuddle and watch a movie, or have a bubble bath together, just something low-pressure, nonsexual, and intimate so I don't feel rejected and unworthy post-coitus. He agreed it's a good idea. I'm so scared that any or all of what we've planned for tomorrow evening won't happen.

Do we have a chance of ever fixing this? *Should I believe him when he says he's attracted to me?*


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

If he is "pleasuring" himself. He needs to STOP that now!


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I might suggest that he try to do it less, yes, but honestly it's his body and I don't feel like I have the right to ask him to stop self-pleasuring. Maybe in this case, since we're trying to learn to make love together, I could ask him to hold off for a week and see what happens. Outside of the unique circumstances, though, I feel like it's not right to dictate whether and when your partner gets off... unless both parties completely consent. I'll ask him about it and see where it goes.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

If he is not able to consumate your marriage and have a normal healthy sexual relationship with YOU, then no he does not need to be pleasuring himself. NOT AT ALL.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I might suggest that he try to do it less, yes, but honestly it's his body and I don't feel like I have the right to ask him to stop self-pleasuring. Maybe in this case, since we're trying to learn to make love together, I could ask him to hold off for a week and see what happens. Outside of the unique circumstances, though, I feel like it's not right to dictate whether and when your partner gets off... unless both parties completely consent. I'll ask him about it and see where it goes.


*Your husband* has stated that he's trained himself to respond *only to his hand*. If his masturbation is negatively affecting your sex life, he needs to stop. You have the right. You're his wife.

If it were a situation where neither of you is interested in having sex with each other, and him jacking off is his only avenue of release, I'd give different advice. But you want your husband, and you want that connection. So you have every right to demand he go cold turkey until he can get off by the sensation of being inside of you and not the death grip.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Fair enough... I'll ask him, but I'm terrified of what I'll discover.

I'm afraid he'll say no, or say yes but then not do it, proving that he doesn't WANT to work to build a sex life with me.

I'm afraid he WILL do it and we'll see no results, proving that he's not attracted to me to begin with.

I'm scared.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Ay, I get that you're scared but try to cut out the black and white thinking.

If he says no, it could mean that it just hasn't sunk into his head how important it is to you or he's selfish. 

If he says yes, and doesn't do it, it could be because he's had a very long relationship with Rosie Palms and it might take a bit for him to break the habit.

I think you'll see some results. If you see no results at all, you might have to find some sort of deeper level to work on it.

edit: I agree that men are supposed to be dogs, but sometimes our wiring gets all confused, or **** has happened in our lives and we don't express that side of ourselves. Sometimes marriage does that: "Crap, maybe I shouldn't think of *my wife* as some chick I wanna rail all the time!".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ella, what are you doing in your personal journey to learn to stop hating yourself?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Hey, sweetie, I was wondering how you've been! Happy holidays (belated)!

First, yes, he needs to stop masturbating unless/until you two establish a healthy sex life. His body needs to learn how to properly have sex, which it won't if he remains conditioned to only orgasm via masturbation. 

Second, do not fake orgasm. Ever. Ever, ever, ever. If you fake it, he learns that whatever he did before you faked it is what you need to orgasm. So, he keeps doing it, because he thinks it works. Only it doesn't. Not to mention, how close and intimate can you be if you're actively lying to him???

Third, has he seen a urologist? If so, what did the doctor say and have you sought a 2nd opinion?

If the doctor says circumcision will fix the problem, do it. Beg, borrow, and steal, if you must. Yes, it may be expensive, but it's worth it if it allows you two to have a great sex life and a healthy marriage.

Also, technique matters. Have you read many sex books, watched videos, porn, etc? For example, some men I've been with liked a fair amount of suction when I gave them oral where others were a bit more sensitive and liked less suction. Some liked a lot of head stimulation where others preferred stimulation a bit lower on the shaft. Some liked a lot of tongue use, while others found it distracting. Some liked me to use my hand in concert with my mouth, while others did not. The men I've been with weren't virgins and knew enough about their own sexuality to tell me what they liked. You two are the blind leading the blind and should probably research different techniques for oral, manual, and PIV so that you can try them and learn what combinations work.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> ......After six and a half years of marriage, I have decided that Mr. S. and I need to begin to have a normal sex life. We need to learn how to have sex.
> 
> ... I had a panic attack just thinking about ending our marriage and made myself ill because it was such a horrible thought. But, if it's true that he's not attracted to me and doesn't want me, what's the point? Fortunately for us both, a friend of mine talked me out of it and told me I was being crazy. I hope she's right....
> 
> ...


OK believe him.

Aftercare is a great idea. The kissing eyes open is right out of David Schnarch's intimacy exercises in his book the Passionate Marriage. (P.S. both of you would benefit form learning his concept of "self soothing" in that book......Oh and you might also learn that there is no universal right number of time a week one has sex or that sex is only successful if you both orgasm)

Rather than put the foreskin stretching on him... every other night why not incorporated it into a sex-like ritual you do together. Also if you have never seen him masturbate to orgasm ask if you can watch in a way that will not interfere, so you may learn what he likes and does to orgasm. If he allows you to watch...thank him and tell him how special it made you feel for him to be brave enough to share that with you.

OK I understand your various issues and panic attacks, but you need to learn how to calm yourself. Do you understand what "performance anxiety" is? You are both probably trying way too hard at you stereotype of what married sex should be.

By all means schedule some time with a sex therapist. A great ST helped my wife and me, one can help you and your H. The first thing they will probably do is tell you to stop faking an orgasm as it destroys his ability to learn how to please you. The ST will also probably tell you to learn how to masturbate to orgasm so you better understand your own body, which will allow you to share better with your H how he can pleasure yu. Next they will probably have you start sensate focus exercises to remove performance anxiety and learn how each of you responds to different kinds of touch. The ST will also probably teach you that sex should be playful and something you look forward to, like recess and playing with your best friend when you were in grade school. Good sex is not about counting orgasms, it is about playing and emotionally bonding 
through the release of various sex hormones. Ask the ST about bonding rituals (read Gottman's 5 hours of love a week rituals...none are sex acts) and intimacy exercises (Schnarch has some of the best.....but after care is also great).

Good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not to mention that faking an orgasm is lying. Would YOU like to be lied to?


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

The definition if cheating is anything that interferes with the intimacy in a marriage. If your husband has trained himself to only respond to his hand, then he is habitually masturbating, it falls into this category. So, amidst your self loathing and attempts to fix things, realize that he has an obligation to change his behavior. Neither spouse is supposed to deny the other sexual gratification. That is what he is doing. 

His inability to get and achieve erections with you is probably not a matter of insensitivity, as he is able to stimulate himself. 

As to the cost of treatment for his condition, circumcision is an outpatient procedure and can probably be done in a urologist's office rather than a hospital. Also, a steroid cream may help.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Few things I can provide some input, and experience, on:

1) I was not an aggressor for sex with my wife until i quit porn and masturbation. I found that porn/masturbation reset my sexual clock and i wouldnt want anything for another 24-48hrs. He could be in a cycle of constantly releasing the energy that he would otherwise pour into you. So ask him to stop masturbating and/or watching porn.
2) Considering you are both learning the 'sex thang' then maybe you could watch porn together... but not hardcore stuff... there is educational porn out there like "Better Sex Videos" -> They are old but provide some GREAT information for people at your level. I think this video series might help you both tremendously
3) Im not 100% on this foreskin thing... I have foreskin and I dont need the skin pulled all the way back to orgasm
4) If he can only get off with 'his own hand' then maybe, when he feels tired of sex, ask him to finish himself off. You can either play/kiss his balls or shaft... or sit beside him and kiss his neck. You can say some things that would turn most men on like "i want to see you cum", etc.... He has created a self-limiting problem (by masturbating and getting used to only his techinque)... just include it into your sex until you learn... Watch how he does it and try to replicate it next time.
5) You could try sitting behind him (so his back is against your chest) and give him a handjob to finish... it might replicate his 'only way to get off' technique
6) Dont fake an orgasm, you are both learning together... so force him to learn how to make you orgasm as much as your learning to make him orgasm.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

NickyT said:


> The definition if cheating is anything that interferes with the intimacy in a marriage. If your husband has trained himself to only respond to his hand, then he is habitually masturbating, it falls into this category. So, amidst your self loathing and attempts to fix things, realize that he has an obligation to change his behavior. Neither spouse is supposed to deny the other sexual gratification. That is what he is doing.
> 
> His inability to get and achieve erections with you is probably not a matter of insensitivity, as he is able to stimulate himself.
> 
> As to the cost of treatment for his condition, circumcision is an outpatient procedure and can probably be done in a urologist's office rather than a hospital. Also, a steroid cream may help.


I can get on board with a lot of this post, but I completely disagree with the first two sentences.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

20 times in six years, that equates to once every 3.5 months. that's a very big problem.

mr. S needs to really step to the plate. he's not taking care of business. there's no nicer way to put it.
i get the hesitancy. i was wide eyed and somewhat apprehensive going into marriage.
i mean like 'dude, you're going to have to take of business, like every other day? can you do that? you'd better at least try!'
i had relations with women before marriage, but not like i had to take care of business 2-3 times a week for the rest of my life!

practice makes perfect. that was never truer than in this case.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

If he can climax by using his hand, there is no physical reason he can't climax by your hand as well. Have him show you what he does and give you feedback while you take the matter into your own hands. 

Has he priced out the foreskin procedure? I'd be concerned if he has dismissed it as too costly without even knowing the price. 

Also, part of the problem may just be a high level of emotional fatigue from being married to someone with your emotional problems. It is unbelievably exhausting to be with someone who suffers with anxiety, depression, PTSD and the like. The stress and frustration can make sex feel like the last thing someone wants to do. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you or is not attracted to you. It might just be one more stone to carry at a time when his arms are already full.

I don't expect him to admit that to you. I doubt he would be willing to risk the potential emotional fallout. My point is, don't discount the influence of life dynamics on his libido. 

I'm having trouble with this assertion that you need so much time to figure out how to have sex. I believe you may be over complicating this as you do with so many things in your life. Your energy and will would be best spent on improving your ability to cope with general life and stop making every molehill in your life into an active volcano. 

Feel free to ignore this if you like, I'm just trying to give you a different perspective. My wife suffers mental illness. Extreme anxiety, depression, misplaced anger, helplessness, etc. She is mostly incapable of seeing the effect her illness has on those around her since it envelopes her so completely at times. Perhaps you have a similar myopathy?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It may be that his hand is 'tighter' than intercourse. Have you discussed this?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> So, I'm sorry, but given the topic, this is about to get very, very graphic. Be warned.
> 
> After six and a half years of marriage, I have decided that Mr. S. and I need to begin to have a normal sex life. We need to learn how to have sex. It's what other couples do, so we should be doing it, too. Most people say they need sex with their spouse to be happy in the relationship, so maybe I do, too. Most of the reasoning behind this decision to finally care about our sex life comes from my BPD, which is currently in overdrive telling me that he never found me attractive and that he's either going to leave or I'm going to be miserable if I don't give him five orgasms a week. I came really close to asking him for a divorce even though I *REALLY* want to stay with him. I had a panic attack just thinking about ending our marriage and made myself ill because it was such a horrible thought. But, if it's true that he's not attracted to me and doesn't want me, what's the point? Fortunately for us both, a friend of mine talked me out of it and told me I was being crazy. I hope she's right. Not being able to tell the difference between my thoughts and reality is a very vulnerable and dangerous place.
> 
> ...


First of all Ella, I am proud of you. For all your fear you are a great example of working and trying to better yourself and your life. Also I have no doubt that you will fix this. 

You do however show some lack of knowledge about men. "He doesn't even get hard from kissing me or fondling me or making out or anything. I have to stimulate him." This is not usual. Even in brand new relationships kissing isn't a common action to give you an erection. Manual stimulation is pretty common after some time after being with someone, also depending on age. 

Keep working at it you both will get it.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I might suggest that he try to do it less, yes, but honestly it's his body and I don't feel like I have the right to ask him to stop self-pleasuring. Maybe in this case, since we're trying to learn to make love together, I could ask him to hold off for a week and see what happens. Outside of the unique circumstances, though, I feel like it's not right to dictate whether and when your partner gets off... unless both parties completely consent. I'll ask him about it and see where it goes.


Maybe you can ask him that he teach YOU how to manually pleasure him -- you SHOULD be able to get him off if he can, which would certainly help you. You can even both do it together so that you learn what he likes. You also should show him what YOU like. You are married, you should be able to talk frankly about what pleasures you (and vice versa). If you've been married for 6 years, you really do need to learn what each other likes, and it sounds like you haven't done that.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I might suggest that he try to do it less, yes, but honestly it's his body and I don't feel like I have the right to ask him to stop self-pleasuring. Maybe in this case, since we're trying to learn to make love together, I could ask him to hold off for a week and see what happens. Outside of the unique circumstances, though, I feel like it's not right to dictate whether and when your partner gets off... unless both parties completely consent. I'll ask him about it and see where it goes.


Your H needs to stop pulling his own pud. The desire for sex has taken care of when your H is self-satisfying.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

Have his testosterone checked. Seriously. This sounds so much like so many of the guys on the testosterone chat boards. If his doctor won't do it, google discountedlabs and arrange a test for him out of pocket. Even if he can pleasure himself, it really does sound like it could be a low testosterone situation and there is treatment for that. I have low testosterone, am being treated for it, and have researched it in depth


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> OK believe him.
> 
> Ask the ST about bonding rituals (read Gottman's 5 hours of love a week rituals...none are sex acts) and intimacy exercises (Schnarch has some of the best.....but after care is also great).
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you. I'm looking it up now and actually, we do all of this on our own already.Complement each other sincerely, greet each other with hugs and kisses, have date nights, and though we don't do it once a week, we do have "state of the union" talks via the playing of "The And". Still, I'll bear these tips in mind and do them with more deliberation from now on.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

turnera said:


> It may be that his hand is 'tighter' than intercourse. Have you discussed this?


Yes, it is. He tells me he needs a very firm grip.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

He's too used to a vise grip on his dingaling. He needs to go cold turkey for a while and that will slowly fix the issue.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

turnera said:


> Ella, what are you doing in your personal journey to learn to stop hating yourself?


I'm in therapy, and for Christmas my husband bought me a self-care journal, so I'm filling that out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Yes, it is. He tells me he needs a very firm grip.


 Then you need to both compromise - he gives you the intercourse or manual until you climax and you give him the manual until he does. Or else what toblerone says to do.

But before and inbetween and afterward, keep including the foreplay and romance. There is no 'one way' to do things.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Yes, it is. He tells me he needs a very firm grip.


There is an interesting male masturbation sleeve out that comes with an interesting marketing perspective.

It is called Blewit It is advertised as a sex training device. It is probably not that different from most such masturbation sleeves, except for the marketing. 

They talk about mindless masturbation, that trains the body to orgasm quickly and only with a vice grip. Instead they recommend slow sensual discovery or mindful masturbation that allows one to explore different stimulation and different feelings within the body.

You don't need to buy one, but you might go to the manufacturers website and read some of the marketing materials as a primmer for a discussion with your husband about how he may have spent years conditioning his own sexual response, Sort of like Pavlov ringing a bell and causing his dogs to salivate....only it is a death grip on his penis causing him to only orgasm in that fashion.

Good luck


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> There is an interesting male masturbation sleeve out that comes with an interesting marketing perspective.
> 
> It is called Blewit It is advertised as a sex training device. It is probably not that different from most such masturbation sleeves, except for the marketing.
> 
> ...


Intriguing! Yes, this is exactly what he tells me is happening. Interesting read...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

If you don’t mind sharing, can I ask why you’ve only had sex 20 times in 6 years? That’s very unusual in a relatively young marriage...


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Yeah, he's conditioned his body to only respond to a certain type of stimulation.

Masturbation Death Grip Syndrome (DGS) | SexInfo Online

Ask Dr. NerdLove: Sensitivity Training

If he's sincere about wanting to learn to have sex with you, he's going to have to break his masturbation conditioning.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Yeah, he's conditioned his body to only respond to a certain type of stimulation.
> 
> Masturbation Death Grip Syndrome (DGS) | SexInfo Online
> 
> ...




And I question if either one is truly sincere about it at this point. OP may be trying to fix something that isn’t broken. Six years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I have no idea if he's sincere about it, because it's only been two days. I know I'm sincere about it, but I don't feel that I have the courage to go through with it half the time.

We made love tonight. Immediately beforehand, I started crying and he lost the mood. I told him that I hated situations like this, where I didn't know whether things would be alright in the end. I told him I'd thought about divorce over the last couple of days simply because I didn't want to see how and whether trying would work. He was shocked and horrified, and I told him I _didn't_ want to leave him; I was just scared to see how it would end for us, and I felt, in a way, that certainty of failure was more comforting than uncertainty. I explained that I took the same attitude when I wanted to leave the country because of political turmoil, or kill myself when he was faced with health issues, or drop out of school because of a poor test score, or run off with another man because of a waver in our marriage. It's easier to run than risk staying to see things collapse.

I know I would not have been able to maintain any kind of amorous feelings after hearing that, and it's to his GREAT credit that he met me in the bedroom two minutes after I went in there to compose myself. I still wanted to run or cry or both, but I stayed and he undressed me and we gave each other oral and I stimulated him and we began to "practice". It was probably my nerves or possibly some pent-up anger on his part, or both, but sex this time was REALLY painful. He was more powerful in his thrusting, and I was more tense. After a few minutes, I asked him to stop because it was really hurting. I apologized for ending the act prematurely, and he said he was sure I'd learn to relax with regular practice. He did say it felt slightly better for him than last time due to the increased tightness. Honestly, I'd live with excruciating sexual pain every day if it meant he could be satisfied, and I told him as much.

For our aftercare, I brought in the laptop after we'd cleaned up and we watch an episode of one of my favorite relaxing TV shows. I leaned against him and we snuggled. For the first time since he's taken sick (with sleep apnea) I felt calm and relaxed, like I wanted to curl up and sleep beside him instead of dreading it because I didn't want to wake up in the night and see him sleeping restlessly. So I curled up with him, and slept until now.

"Have Courage and Be Kind" has always been my credo, but today I think I re-learned the meaning of courage. The word courage comes from the French _coeur_, heart, and its original meaning back in the middle ages or so was, "to do something whole-heartedly." Real courage is doing something with your whole heart, even when half your heart has no desire to stay in case your endeavors implode. I thanked my husband for being courageous enough to do this with me, to learn to have sex and to talk about hard things. And frankly, I credit myself, too, because previous attempts to have sex regularly have all fizzled out, and I'm continuing to try, with my whole heart, to do this just _knowing_ it's going to fail and I'm going to end up hurt worse than ever. I'm going to try my utmost not to withdraw from this sexual quest in any fashion, because it's not _truly_ protecting me, or him. I pray he continues to do the same, but I can't control it if he does. And even in spite of the previous fact, I'm going to keep trying.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Oh, and other good news: He agreed to stop self-pleasuring for the time being, and he says that this time last year he thinks he made a doctor's appointment with his primary care doctor for this month, so we'll be able to consider medical treatment for his issues.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> In six years, we've had sex maybe twenty times. He's given me two orgasms. I've given him _none_.


:|

*restrains himself*



> He doesn't even get hard from kissing me or fondling me or making out or anything. I have to stimulate him. And that's as far as it ever goes. I don't know if he's even capable of climaxing for I've never seen him do it. *He says he is though, when he's alone.*












No more masturbation!



> I feel like an abject failure as a woman because I was socialized since puberty to believe that lust is most of what drives a man to love a woman, that men would copulate with a pineapple if left to their own devices, and that it's a woman's job to constantly fend off male "suitors" and defend her purity. This has categorically not been the case with my husband.
> 
> One problem is he can't pull his foreskin back. I bought him some stretching rings that look like ear gauges to stretch his foreskin out. He uses them sometimes. It's his New Years' Resolution to use them every day.


:|



> Yesterday evening we had sex. I had the spare bedroom made up with lots of tissues and tea because I knew I was going to end the night in anguish over being, apparently, the worst lay ever if I can't even get my own husband off. But, actually, relatively speaking it wasn't terrible. We bought flavored lube yesterday and he gave me oral for the first time ever tonight and we 69'ed for the first time ever as well.
> 
> I felt a little pleasure, but mostly I faked my orgasm. I don't mind doing that. Honestly, I don't care at this point if I ever climax with him again; I just want him to want me. As I was lying beneath him I cupped his face in my hands and told him to open his eyes and look at me because he usually closes his eyes when we have sex and I wanted to know he was really seeing me. He did so.
> 
> ...


Well, circumcision may make the problem worse as it deadens some nerves apparently.

The thing is, sex isn't rocket science, but if he keeps watching porn his expectations will be too high for you - a normal woman - to satisfy.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

It does sound like you have some psychological issues that you are working on with a professional. So that is good. 

As for sex, you need to take it a little less serious. Its good that you have suggested a 'daily' routine with your husband but try to have less expectations. I cant imagine females who can orgasm with pressure/stress on their mind... its like the kryptonite of female orgasms. 

Enjoy the journey for what it is and stop expecting a moment when everything makes sense. Sex with your husband should be dynamic and changing as time goes on. Also, stop expecting an orgasm yourself if you cant get the voice in your head to shut up while you are being pleasured. At the very least, you should know that your husband will get his satisfaction... whether you learn to do it or he is doing it with you.

I suggest, again, to download or buy the 'better sex video' series. It talks about communication and how to approach sexual positions and attitudes. Maybe make this your 'post session' video you cuddle up to.

If he truly stops masturbating you will find it easier to make him reach orgasm aswell.

As for painful sex.. maybe an experienced women can chime in... but ask him to take it slow and dont do deep thrusts yet. Most of your sensitive spots are around the first inch of penetration, your G spot (which is like 1.5-2 inches in) and/or A spot which is like 3-4 inches deep.... so no need for him to hit your intestines while you are still trying to get the hang of things. You could also try to go on top and you will have full control of penetration (ask him not to move or thrust)


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Also, there is nothing wrong with starting with hand and mouth pleasure until you learn to enjoy eachother and reach climax. The vast majority of people started with handjobs/blowjobs/oral before they moved on to sex (mostly the exploration stage and young ages.) 

In sexual maturity you guys are still in the 'high school' stage... uncomfortable, trying to figure out how things work.. Your husband for example; finally gets inside a women and thrusts like a jackhammer... You guys just need time and patience to get through these stages. Dont feel discouraged, we all started there.

I have utmost respect for anyone that identifies an issue in their life (behavioral or otherwise) and takes the steps to fix it. There is far less shame in identifying a sexual problem 5+ years into marriage then living a life of ignorance and denial.


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## rmann (Jan 2, 2018)

Steve2.0 said:


> Few things I can provide some input, and experience, on:
> 
> 1) I was not an aggressor for sex with my wife until i quit porn and masturbation. I found that porn/masturbation reset my sexual clock and i wouldnt want anything for another 24-48hrs. He could be in a cycle of constantly releasing the energy that he would otherwise pour into you. So ask him to stop masturbating and/or watching porn.
> 2) Considering you are both learning the 'sex thang' then maybe you could watch porn together... but not hardcore stuff... there is educational porn out there like "Better Sex Videos" -> They are old but provide some GREAT information for people at your level. I think this video series might help you both tremendously
> ...


Lots of great points here. Also, you might want him to just watch porn without masterbating, and then have sex with you. Sometimes that little bit of "motivation" helps in the bedroom.


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## Notself (Aug 25, 2017)

Uh ... Let's all stop beating up on OP's hubby for having death grip syndrome, please. If my wife suddenly started crying in the middle of intercourse, I'd stop immediately, quit asking for sex, and start masturbating exclusively. I'm frankly surprised she can make him hard at all.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Notself said:


> Uh ... Let's all stop beating up on OP's hubby for having death grip syndrome, please. If my wife suddenly started crying in the middle of intercourse, I'd stop immediately, quit asking for sex, and start masturbating exclusively. I'm frankly surprised she can make him hard at all.


Ya never know, it could be a turn-on for him!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

rmann said:


> Lots of great points here. Also, you might want him to just watch porn without masterbating, and then have sex with you. Sometimes that little bit of "motivation" helps in the bedroom.


DH and I often went to the adult stores and bought videos to watch together, as it got me more in the mood.

The only other thing I see is that you might want to work a little harder to understand what it's like to be him. Like it's great that you're being honest - really great, but the things you told your husband, like wanting to kill yourself, wanting to divorce, all that other stuff? Holy cow! Think of the turmoil you put him through with that confession. 

A couple books you might want to read to help you understand men better are Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus and His Needs Her Needs.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

turnera said:


> The only other thing I see is that you might want to work a little harder to understand what it's like to be him. Like it's great that you're being honest - really great, but the things you told your husband, like wanting to kill yourself, wanting to divorce, all that other stuff? Holy cow! Think of the turmoil you put him through with that confession.


I am aware it wasn't easy to hear, yes, though none of it except that I was considering running off on Monday is news to him. He knows I'm parasuicidal as a basic response to stress. I regretted it as soon as I said it, though.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

A lot to be said for sexual satisfaction with use of oral and hands. My W and I enjoy oral/hand stimulation to climax 95% of the time. Intercourse happens certainly but my W states the climax is very different and not as satisfying as oral/hand stimulation. Married 23 years. Sex 2-4 times a week. Something must be working right.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I can't stand intercourse. I only tolerate it to please my H. Manual is the only thing I want.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Notself said:


> Uh ... Let's all stop beating up on OP's hubby for having death grip syndrome, please. If my wife suddenly started crying in the middle of intercourse, I'd stop immediately, quit asking for sex, and start masturbating exclusively. I'm frankly surprised she can make him hard at all.


This and it sounds like both are way way over thinking sex. It just isn’t that complicated till you make it complicated. 

Ella, 

What I would say is just go one at a time. He pleasures you first and you tell him exactly what you want then you do the same. If that means he wasn’t a handy to finish so be it. From that foundation you can work on other things and get the sex life on track I would think.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

It's working, I think! He told me tonight he felt closer to me than before and he's really glad we're trying to have sex. He said we feel more like a couple. That, of course, implies he didn't feel like we were a couple before, but I'm trying not to think about that...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> It's working, I think! He told me tonight he felt closer to me than before and he's really glad we're trying to have sex. He said we feel more like a couple. That, of course, implies he didn't feel like we were a couple before, but I'm trying not to think about that...


Feeling "more" like a couple implies a better closeness. Feeling "like" a couple would imply your H did not before. People let love grow as well as closeness. It is not a light switch. People let love and closeness diminish. The key is keeping it from diminishing. Spend at least 20 hours together weekly doing something. Keep "dating" each other. Leave notes. Show appreciation. Fly the freak flag in the bedroom.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

We tried Sensate Focus this time, at my suggestion. We spent an hour in the bedroom. I VERY much enjoyed his caresses and massage, and enjoyed returning the same. Sex itself wasn't any better than usual. I know it's only been three days, but I, the allegedly higher-libido partner, am beginning to run out of steam and was rather relieved when the act itself was over. I love the cuddles though, and the aftercare, and the time we spend bonding. I just wish I could stop seeing sex as a failed exercise because I think it's wearing me down.

Meanwhile, Mr. S tells me he has and will stop self-pleasuring for this month, and as he does it a couple times a week, I'm hoping it won't take long before the brush of a butterfly's wing could set him off. I'm hoping that when he does get to that point, he'll be able to relieve himself with me rather than the sight of me rendering him unable to perform. We have a doctor's appointment next week for him, and we will discuss treating his phimosis along with other, unrelated conditions.

A note of thanks to whomever told me that a man needing physical stimulation to get erect rather than springing to life at the sight of a woman is normal. That's one less thing I need feel insufficient over.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> *We tried Sensate Focus this time*, at my suggestion. We spent an hour in the bedroom. I VERY much enjoyed his caresses and massage, and enjoyed returning the same. *Sex itself wasn't any better than usual*. I know it's only been three days, but I, the allegedly higher-libido partner, am beginning to run out of steam and was rather relieved when the act itself was over. I love the cuddles though, and the aftercare, and the time we spend bonding. I just wish I could stop seeing sex as a failed exercise because I think it's wearing me down.
> 
> Meanwhile, Mr. S tells me he has and will stop self-pleasuring for this month, and as he does it a couple times a week, *I'm hoping it won't take long before the brush of a butterfly's wing could set him off.* I'm hoping that when he does get to that point, he'll be able to relieve himself with me rather than the sight of me rendering him unable to perform. *We have a doctor's appointment next week for him,* and we will discuss treating his phimosis along with other, unrelated conditions.....


A few thoughts. Most Senate Focus programs involve giving up intercourse (and masturbation) for a period of typically a month. Part of the idea behind taking sex off the table is to reduce performance anxiety.

Your H has probably spent decades "conditioning himself" through masturbation. It would be surprising if he could undo that in a matter of months. Don't hold out unrealistic expectations.

Great work on getting him to the doctor. It sounds like he is really trying hard to change himself for you. Take joy in that. Celebrate it as his expressing his love for you and how important you are to him.

Good luck.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I think I may have misread the instructions to sensate focus, for I thought you were supposed to go through all three stages in one night, taking your time with each. I thought it was less a program than a sexual technique. 

That said, last night I again went to bed with him in the other sense, too. If I am becoming less afraid to sleep beside him, this is a very good sign psychologically: the intimacy that we are feeling from our recent sexual attempts may be enough to overcome the primal-feeling fear of intimacy that his sleep apnea and limb movement disorder have given me.


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

I have read a good many of your threads....something that jumps out at me is your self loathing. I know you mention you may be BPD which doesn’t help your internal turmoil.
Do you receive counselling on a regular basis ( sorry if you mentioned that and I missed it)

To read that you told your husband he can be with another man as long as he’s safe .....you don’t love yourself anywhere as close to how you should, regardless of him declining. Offering him up to another man or woman is so self defeating.
I think if you could start loving yourself more and stop self persecuting .....your intimacy and confidence level would play out between the sheets.
Sure...your husband has some issues to deal with as well, but you having more confidence in yourself may help him as well.

It’s hard to read young people who love each other and have a great relationship other than sex...such a huge component of a healthy marriage.
Him masterbating does not help matters and you faking orgasm ....never a good idea. It’s definitely less work for him to orgasm from masterbating but he’s sabotaging the chance to build a sexual relationship with you.

Can you do something before sex to relax and calm yourself.....a hot bath or even a bath together to kickstart your getting close to each other and setting the mood.

Don’t give up...educate yourself as much as possible....books, videos... sex therapy....watch soft sensual porn together, discover ways to arouse him in ways he likes and responds to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ella, have you ever looked at the Self Esteem workbook? It's pretty good stuff.


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

I think letting go of expectations of what a good sex life should be like from what you have seen, read about or from others personal renditions and concentrate on what you and your hubby want from the experience should be your first priority.

By comparing to other’s experiences....you feel you are falling short and are not giving your husband the satisfaction he wants.
Every couple is unique....we all have our wants and desires....what you and hubby want should be your only consideration. You’re setting yourself up for failure by having the mind set of having to measure up to “ what the books etc say”

By marking on your calendar which days are **** ring days and which days are love making you are making it all too regimented.
Sex is supposed to be fun and spontaneous. Mix it up a little.....surprise him by giving him a BJ after he comes out of the shower....or masterbate together when you wake up in the morning before work....
By being spontaneous it takes away the monotony of scheduled intercourse and keeps things interesting.

Mentally start preparing yourself everyday so that you are not having self defeating thoughts on your mind.....stop ruminating if he thinks you’re attractive....if your going to make him orgasm ....that you’re the “ worst lay ever” ( your own words) 
If you approach sex with these self deprecating thoughts ..instead of confidence...such as.....” i’m going to rock his world with the most amazing BJ ever”...
you likely will not achieve what you want and he’ll feel your reluctance.
Men get turned on by their partners showing enthusiasm even if the end result is not always achieved...don’t let that deter you.

If you initiate a BJ when he comes out of the shower and it doesn’t go perfectly the first time.....don’t give up and talk yourself down....have a laugh together and say to yourself.....I’m going to keep trying.
You have it in you and so does he...it will take time to build a repertoire....but always making it fun and relaxed and not so uptight is paramount.

Never give up on a good sex life ....it’s imperative to a healthy marriage.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

@cma62

If we try not to schedule it, as we have done for 6 years, both of us will be too intimidated to ever approach the other. I believe that we are very similar, sexually, in that we are both excruciatingly shy and possessed of a self-image lower than the dust. He is only an inch taller than me at 5 foot 3, and has apparently been bald since he was 21. When we were dating, he told me he felt chronically unattractive and unlovable, and 16-year-old Ella knew that feeling well enough. 

Ironically, given that we have similar insecurities and similar sex drives (if I can believe what he tells me about the frequency of his self-pleasuring sessions) we are very much on the same page, sexually. We know that we can't do it to each other as well as we can do it to ourselves, and with this depressing thought in mind, we don't bother unless we're made to. 

I believe that it's not impossible that we both do want intimacy with each other, given that he hasn't turned down my advances. But we can't be spontaneous about it because we'll never develop the confidence on our own.


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

Ella...I would tend to agree with you....in the mind set you are in. Nothing changes overnight.

If you could look at the cup half full...instead of half empty.....it would go along way for both of you.

Negative breeds negative....

You sound like you have good introspection .....don’t be afraid to step outside your comfort zone.

Plus.....there is no harm in trying to be spontaneous.....what do you have to lose.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cma62 said:


> Ella...I would tend to agree with you....in the mind set you are in. Nothing changes overnight.
> 
> If you could look at the cup half full...instead of half empty.....it would go along way for both of you.
> 
> ...


Ella, see if you can find a copy of this book. It's not really a book. It's a set of 52 invitations - 26 for the female to give to the male and 26 for the male to give to the female - and each invitation sets up a new experience. It's an AMAZING way for the two of you to learn how to explore each other sexually, very safe, very welcoming, very fun.

But I've heard it's hard to find, as it went out of print awhile back.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

turnera said:


> Ella, see if you can find a copy of this book. It's not really a book. It's a set of 52 invitations - 26 for the female to give to the male and 26 for the male to give to the female - and each invitation sets up a new experience. It's an AMAZING way for the two of you to learn how to explore each other sexually, very safe, very welcoming, very fun.
> 
> But I've heard it's hard to find, as it went out of print awhile back.


I've just ordered a copy on Amazon. It's not the same title but it's the same concept by the same author, the only difference being that it's updated to contain 101 envelopes. I hope it will be everything you say it is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Awesome! I'll just tell you, I'm sexually averse, meaning I have a FOO issue with sex and I'm self-protective. But these invitations were really helpful for putting us on the same page, on the same team, wanting this to be great for both of us.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

As someone who lived in a sexless marriage for a long time, I think you're losing sight of the forest for the trees. When we were at the height of our crisis, just getting in bed together with the goal of sharing sexual intimacy was a major win. If arousal and orgasm didn't happen, it wasn't a failure. If one of us got aroused when the other didn't (usually me), it still wasn't a failure. We had still managed to get naked and be focused on each other, and that was a huge win. So, stop thinking in terms of failure. Many people would give their eye teeth just to be naked together and working on making sex a priority in their marriage. You haven't failed. Not even close. You're just working on making it better, and you should be giving yourself a pat on the back.

If you are committed to having regularly scheduled sex, but are enjoying sex more when you're not focused on orgasm then it sounds like you might want to look into Kerezza. To put a fine point on it, it is sex that is focused on togetherness and bonding rather than being focused on orgasm. If orgasm is a problem, then stop making orgasm the goal of sex for a while. The idea behind Karezza is that you can have sex to be close and be intimate without looking at orgasm as the finish line. If not making orgasm the focus of sex, at least some of the time helps you enjoy sex more, then it might be worth looking into. Having sex without orgasm a couple of times might also help you guys build up sexual tension and get to the 'butterfly wings' point.

https://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/what_is_karezza

The other thing that my wife and I did was that BJs and HJs weren't all her responsibility. This is TMI, but in this case probably justified. There were many times when she would kiss me, play with my nipples, or wrap her hand around mine while I got myself to the finish line when she wasn't interested. Sometimes we'd alternate between her mouth or hand and mine. You don't have to look at success or failure based on whether or not you made him orgasm. Being together, encouraging him, and helping him help himself is a big win. When we were in the depths of our crisis that meant the world to me. 

In the end my wife learned to relax and not be focused on whether or not she was getting me off. We had to learn that if orgasm didn't happen for either or both of us, that it was not only just okay -the fact that we were naked and in bed experiencing the love we had for each other and our commitment to each other was a sign that our marriage was healthy and growing. Sex slowly got better and we're much better for it. So give yourself the credit that you deserve for being in bed together and making an effort. You just need to learn how each other responds and reacts, but you are 100% winning here.

With respect to masturbation, there is some evidence (whether or not it's scientific) that it's not just the acclimation to the physical sensation that causes problems. There are people who believe that when masturbation is accompanied by porn use, the brain loses the ability to be stimulated by our regular sex partner.

https://yourbrainonporn.com/

The only other thing that I would add is don't put an expiration date on your husband's "no-fap" (as the kids are calling it ;-). I would instead ask him to give you the 'right of first refusal', where he simply tells you "Hey, I think I'd like to ..." and you get the right to say "Let's try to have sex instead", "Let me help", or "Okay, go ahead". Don't be tempted to view this as anything other than a long term process. It took you a long time to get to where you are, it may take a long time to work past it. Don't get discouraged. Learn to view the moments that you share being sexual partners as major successes and a sign that your marriage is healthy and vibrant. 

Most of the people I've spoken to who are in sexless marriages would kill to have a spouse to was willing to work on the problem in a loving and persistent way even if it took a while. You should be proud of your marriage, because you're working together to overcome a challenge.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

We have been having sex every other day except for when I'm on my time. Last Sunday, he initiated after hinting to me that he had a surprise for me involving a bath all week. I all but begged him to tell me what was up, but he wouldn't. Then, suddenly, he was rushing around the house looking for music and candles. He had drawn me a milk bath, lit candles, and had spa music playing. To my surprise, he left me alone in there to relax and bathe to my heart's content when I was sure we'd be sharing a bath.

When I called for him, "I'm ready for you, my love!" he appeared with a bottle of honey. He said, voice shaking with nervousness, "I have a proposition for you. I want you to hide six drops of honey anywhere on your body. ANYWHERE." He placed a drop of honey on my neck. "And then, come to the bedroom, and I will find them, and lick them off, like this." He then proceeded to make out with my neck with more passion and force than I've ever seen him do anything. Ho. ly. Gods. There were shockwaves up and down my spine in a way I didn't know I could feel.

I did as he requested, and went to the bedroom, which was clean and a fresh sheet had been laid out on the bed. It led exactly to where you think it would. Neither of us were able to orgasm yet, but it was still a good night. I'm astonished that he A) initiated and B) did it so romantically and passionately. Shyly, nervously, but passionately. Whoof! Also, he found a pleasure spot on me and has taken to liberally kissing and nibbling and sucking and breathing on my neck whenever we cuddle. I'm honestly titillated to the point of almost helplessness just thinking about it.

We're doing it again tonight.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm so happy for you!


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Wonderful news. Thank you for sharing.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

turnera said:


> I can't stand intercourse. I only tolerate it to please my H. Manual is the only thing I want.


God almighty, you said this out loud using TAM tabloid ink.

Brave are you, Ah,Some..... Bless Me!

Some, this, your truth be had manually.
At it's arrival, your *LCD monitor lights up 
It's truth cumming slowly via digital stimulation, 

Not analog, that old formatted 'up and down'.
Not derived from that rhythmic sine wave going up and down his spine.

Tell us, never him.
Tell him, will lose him to his own digital stimulator.

Lose him to things that should be left unsaid.


*Lusty, Crevice, Delectation


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

He's had his circumcision today, which means no sex-- solo or otherwise, for at least a month. Possibly as long as six weeks. That means no sex on valentine's day. He's promised me dinner and flowers and chocolates anyway, bless him. 

I am not dealing well with the justaposition of the life I want-- the life I had before September of 2017-- and the life I have now which is fraught with frantic worry, episodes of self-destruction, extreme stress, and medical bills. I hate seeing all the romantic displays in the store, because between his penile issues and his sleep apnea-- for which we have still not found adequate treatment-- my own life has been so far removed from anything romantic for the better part of a year that there have been at least five moments a week where I've wanted to run. Anywhere. Preferably into the arms of a lesbian with a penchant for pencil skirts and ballroom dancing. I know of now such women, to my husband's salvation. But after having dated, married, and quite possibly lost a romantically perfect man to illness, I will be utterly through with men should Mr. S and I end it. Of that I am sure; all men remind me of him, and thinking of him in any context right now is more painful than my husband's penis. When he holds me nowadays, I sometimes say, "Damn it all. Why do you have to be so sweet?!" and I say it in a sad, soft little voice that makes him smile, but I'm really lamenting for my dying fantasy, so it's not the compliment he thinks it is.

He's sore and tired and has been sleeping all day. I'm going to make him take off from work tomorrow, I think, though he is loath to do so. I asked the surgeon today, "What happens if he suffers from reduced sexual sensitivity?" to which the surgeon replied, "That's a common side effect. There's nothing you can do. That's just going to happen." As he had almost no pleasure from PIV and very limited pleasure from manual stimulation from me to begin with, if his sensitivity tanks, I'm sure our sex life will be permanently dead. I'm scared he'll never feel any kind of pleasure from me.

The only upside to this is that he will be forced, on the promise of great pain and trauma to his ailing magnum opus, to cease self-pleasuring for no shorter time than a month.

And not to mention the cost. We'll be paying for this for a year or more. 

Pray for us. We need it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Doing without for a month may be enough to change y'all's path. Did you ever look for that book I think I mentioned - 52 Invitations to Grrrreat Sex?


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> So, I'm sorry, but given the topic, this is about to get very, very graphic. Be warned.
> 
> After six and a half years of marriage, I have decided that Mr. S. and I need to begin to have a normal sex life. We need to learn how to have sex. It's what other couples do, so we should be doing it, too. Most people say they need sex with their spouse to be happy in the relationship, so maybe I do, too. Most of the reasoning behind this decision to finally care about our sex life comes from my BPD, which is currently in overdrive telling me that he never found me attractive and that he's either going to leave or I'm going to be miserable if I don't give him five orgasms a week. I came really close to asking him for a divorce even though I *REALLY* want to stay with him. I had a panic attack just thinking about ending our marriage and made myself ill because it was such a horrible thought. But, if it's true that he's not attracted to me and doesn't want me, what's the point? Fortunately for us both, a friend of mine talked me out of it and told me I was being crazy. I hope she's right. Not being able to tell the difference between my thoughts and reality is a very vulnerable and dangerous place.
> 
> ...


Of course I can't know enough to make a definite recommendation based on the above alone; but I'll propose possible problems to explore.

One possibility may be his foreskin. You may need to consider circumcision if that's the problem.

How does he masturbate? If it's compulsively, he may need help to learn to control his compulsion and help does exist for that.

You mentioned he plays on the computer. Does he suffer internet or gaming addiction? Just because it's not porn, he could still be hooked to surfing the web or playing computer games. If so, you may want to agree on an internet or gaming curfew if it's depriving him of sleep or affecting him otherwise. In extreme cases, maybe even install an app that enforces the curfew.

Could he have another emotional, physical, or sexual history you don't know about or that he has forgotten about? I don't mean cheating or a previous partner in adulthood, but going back to childhood or even an unwanted sexual experience in adulthood? Childhood abuse is grossly under-reported, be it emotional, physical, or sexual, and any of these can affect sexual behaviour in adulthood in different ways. Also, an adult male especially won't admit to an emotionally or sexually abusive experience: men are raised to be stoic after all. If so, therapy, a twelve-step group, and beyond that even certain sex games or sex toys might help. You could consider shopping for sex toys online. You don't need to buy anything initially but just learn about the wide variety of sex toys out there. Though no sex toy that I know of has been designed specifically with a therapeutic purpose in mind, some of them may serve a therapeutic purpose as an added bonus none-the-less. Sex is not only physical but mental and emotional too. Some sex toys contribute more to psycho-sexual intimacy than to physical intimacy and so can allow you to extend the range of sexual experience beyond just the physical.

As for the popular belief that a heterosexual man always wants sex from a beautiful woman, this belief is so ingrained in our culture that even many men buy into it by dismissing their experience as an exception. In fact it's so ingrained in our culture that male rape by beautiful women is often portrayed humorously in films. One drawback of this pernicious belief is that it can also make a man feel particularly uncomfortable when turning a woman down for sex out of a fear that she'll interpret it as an insult to her beauty. Of course if men all started acquiescing out of a fear of insulting women, then they'd be reinforcing the belief. This might even explain at least in part why some men are perceived as giving sex so easily.

Going back to the subject of past experience. I'll cook, clean, offer her a massage, cuddle, and do other things to hint my desire for sex with my wife, but I do find it difficult to tell her directly when I want sex with her. When she wants sex, she'll tell me explicitly and then I can perform no problem. There are psychological reasons for this in my case that make me hesitant to approach her sexually before she's made it very clear that she wants sex. I've played certain sex games with toys with her that have also sometimes helped me to overcome that hesitation in that the game requires her through certain symbolic acts to communicate her desire in a concrete way. I don't know if any of this applies in your case. If he does have a certain fear of initiating the sexual interaction, you may need to initiate it yourself. In my case, the only hang-up was with starting the interaction. Once my wife makes it clear that she wants sex, I have no problem from there on in. Or maybe in your case, the problem is in reverse or that neither of you feels comfortable initiating the interaction for some reason. In such cases, maybe certain more mental sex games could help.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

turnera said:


> Doing without for a month may be enough to change y'all's path. Did you ever look for that book I think I mentioned - 52 Invitations to Grrrreat Sex?


Yes, we did and we loved it. We bought a version with 101 invitations, but we absolutely adored it. It made us both feel sexy and wanted.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then surely you can still do some of those things, just without the PIV?


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

Machjo said:


> One possibility may be his foreskin. You may need to consider circumcision if that's the problem.


*THANK YOU !!!!!!!!*

It's called Phimosis. *P H I M O S I S* and it is a physical deformity of the foreskin over a man (or boy, obviously)'s glans. It is however a very fixable condition. And I think in a month's time your husband is going to see what he's been missing, and things will improve greatly. There have been many many excellent posts here regarding emotional connection and great ways to improve your intimacy and emotional growth together. But _very_ few mentions of this sexually impeding condition. His ability to finish himself doesn't have as much to do with it as you ladies think.

We have a long-term friend (over 30 years now) that had the condition. I assume his parents didn't know (parents rarely see their kids erections and boys don't know what a normal erection should feel like - only their own). Anyway, he is a very smart and funny guy and usually had a girlfriend in high school and college, but they never lasted very long. He said that he didn't like sex very much and lots of the girls accused him of being gay because he wasn't chasing them around, and the sex wasn't very hot. He is a funny upbeat guy but I remember asking him why he split from his super hot-a$$ girlfriend and he got depressed and said she called him a terrible lay and dumped him.

I didn't see him for a few years but once we reconnected he told us (over drinks and good times) that he had gotten circumsized and was now a sexual dynamo, which his wife will swear to. He always thought there was something wrong, but was embarrassed to talk to anyone about it (especially his parents). He had the phimosis so that when erect only about a 1/4 of the head of his penis would stick out,and it was very uncomfortable. He could masturbate but after the circumcision it was a revelation.

Guys - wrap your soft penis in duct tape and have your wife start hitting on you. If you start to become engorged it's going to be uncomfortable, and won't be your favorite pass time.

Ladies - put several layers of duct tape over your clit. You can still feel the pressure of your hand, but not directly on your button and you will need to press much harder. That is why he squeezes it so hard - because he has that extra skin covering the head of his penis. A circumcised or erect un-cut penis has the glans (head) exposed, and it is the most sensitive part.

Sex for him has been uncomfortable and greatly desensitized due to the phimosis. Now that he has had the surgery, after he heals, he can see what it was _Supposed_ to be feeling like for the past 6 years. And he _WILL_ like it.

Ella you and your husband sound like a great loving couple. Everything you've said about him sounds like he adores you and wants to make you happy. I really think things are going to turn around now. Please correct me if I said anything wrong - as I said I based my diagnosis off of intimate conversations with someone that had, and fixed, the condition.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

turnera said:


> Then surely you can still do some of those things, just without the PIV?


Yes, but now that he's been circumcised, getting erect will likely be painful for several weeks, and touching himself in the coming month could mean he severely-- possibly permanently-- damages his member. Sex is off the table entirely for four to six weeks.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Yes, but now that he's been circumcised, getting erect will likely be painful for several weeks, and touching himself in the coming month could mean he severely-- possibly permanently-- damages his member. Sex is off the table entirely for four to six weeks.


Yes. No arousal for the next month. Only little pecks (kisses), no making out. No talking about trying sex. No dirty pictures for him. You want him to heal well, and tearing his stitches out (from his penis stretching / becoming erect) will hurt and scar.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

You're a great writer. I feel like I'm reading a novel with your posts. Best wishes and prayers for your success.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Thank you so much. That made my day.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

So, he's had his circumcision. He's been in recovery about 3 weeks or so. The doctor said it would be a month before he could resume sexual activity. But yesterday, he watched porn. I know because I just had a hunch when I got back from class late. I asked him today why he was masturbating yesterday. He said, without denying it, that it was because the pain for his surgery was nearly gone, and a man can only go so long without stimulation. I asked him why he didn't think to tell me first so he and I could have some fun. I said over and over that I wanted to be the first one to touch him. He said that we could do something together, sexually, if I wanted. I said maybe Friday. He said he was able to climax far more easily than usual, and I said I really hoped that translated into easier coupled orgasms. I have serious doubts about that, though.

Here's the thing: I know why he didn't tell me first when he was in a mood. It's because having sex with me doesn't give him orgasms, or much pleasure at all. I'm not blind. 

But he doesn't give me much pleasure, either. I'd much prefer to be by myself if orgasm is the goal. Instead, I've always viewed partnered sex as kind of a ritual of love. It's a symbolic act to me that proves that we love each other. We're being close and physical, imitating what we've seen in movies and porn, as a way to express our devotion to one another, even though the sexual attraction is dulled for both of us, and sexual responsiveness is almost nil. I got pleasure from the closeness, from the symbolism of love, from the ritual of this over-glorified act. I desire it. And I desire him to want me. And he does want me. He's affectionate, he offers sex, he tries to make sex good. But we just can't make our bodies respond.

The question is why I suddenly care about that. I've known from the first six months of our marriage onward that we weren't going to have much of a sex life, that I couldn't pleasure him well, and that he couldn't pleasure me well. It didn't matter at all. I was happy. I was elated. I was blissfully devoted and enamored. I said to him tonight, "You know.. maybe I should stop caring, or try to stop caring. I never cared before that I couldn't pleasure you and you couldn't pleasure me. Why does it matter now?"

He pointed out that two nights before his circumcision, I got absolutely smashed and the ONLY thing I wanted to do was make love to him. Apparently, we tried new positions. I screamed his name and murmured a cascade of declarations of eternal love. He rocked my world and gave me the best orgasm I've ever had. Sadly, I was so drunk I can't remember any of it, except maybe one hazy moment or two on the floor underneath him, and talking later on the sofa as he confessed all his insecurities and I mine and we found out we're both petrified that the other will leave, because we know we'll never find anyone better. I do remember that part.

So, when my inhibitions are gone, all I want is him. I want to have sex with him until I can't stand up, and then I want pillow talk about our very deepest thoughts. He'll usually give it to me whenever I want it, though he may need coaxing to talk in the form of our intimate-conversation game.

So why do I care so much about how his body responds to me when I can't make my body respond to him either, unless I'm utterly sloshed?


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

Maybe the booze helps loosen your inhibitions.


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## Shamrockfaced (Feb 9, 2018)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> So, he's had his circumcision. He's been in recovery about 3 weeks or so. The doctor said it would be a month before he could resume sexual activity. But yesterday, he watched porn. I know because I just had a hunch when I got back from class late. I asked him today why he was masturbating yesterday. He said, without denying it, that it was because the pain for his surgery was nearly gone, and a man can only go so long without stimulation. I asked him why he didn't think to tell me first so he and I could have some fun. I said over and over that I wanted to be the first one to touch him. He said that we could do something together, sexually, if I wanted. I said maybe Friday. He said he was able to climax far more easily than usual, and I said I really hoped that translated into easier coupled orgasms. I have serious doubts about that, though.
> 
> Here's the thing: I know why he didn't tell me first when he was in a mood. It's because having sex with me doesn't give him orgasms, or much pleasure at all. I'm not blind.
> 
> ...


I can saw almost unequivocally that you, and your ability to please him are not the problem. If you are watching porn together, you know "what to do". 
I think the problem is that your husband is addicted to porn and it has desensitized him to the point that he can't get stimulated without it. It's a neural pathways issue, and he needs to detox. He needs to develop a healthy relationship with sex and stimulation. 

I'd venture to guess that any woman, literally any woman, can probably "get off" any healthy male who has a normalized relationship with sex. In other words, if you put him in your mouth, or vagina, you don't have to "know what to do". If his body doesn't respond normally, I think it points to his porn addiction. He probably can't climax without focusing, or seeing his favorite images/scenes.

I think you need to be honest with him and tell him you want to have sex to build and strengthen your marriage.. And it is so important to you, you want to be exclusive together for 2 weeks to try. You're not asking him to abandon porn (at this point) but treat it like an experiment.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Shamrockfaced said:


> I can saw almost unequivocally that you, and your ability to please him are not the problem. If you are watching porn together, you know "what to do".
> I think the problem is that your husband is addicted to porn and it has desensitized him to the point that he can't get stimulated without it. It's a neural pathways issue, and he needs to detox. He needs to develop a healthy relationship with sex and stimulation.
> 
> I'd venture to guess that any woman, literally any woman, can probably "get off" any healthy male who has a normalized relationship with sex. In other words, if you put him in your mouth, or vagina, you don't have to "know what to do". If his body doesn't respond normally, I think it points to his porn addiction. He probably can't climax without focusing, or seeing his favorite images/scenes.
> ...



i think you need to read more about their history. i seriously doubt its porn.

that said, i would say it IS very likely that he needs to learn how to enjoy sex, but not for the reason you cite.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> So, he's had his circumcision. He's been in recovery about 3 weeks or so. The doctor said it would be a month before he could resume sexual activity. But yesterday, he watched porn. I know because I just had a hunch when I got back from class late. I asked him today why he was masturbating yesterday. He said, without denying it, that it was because the pain for his surgery was nearly gone, and a man can only go so long without stimulation. I asked him why he didn't think to tell me first so he and I could have some fun. I said over and over that I wanted to be the first one to touch him. He said that we could do something together, sexually, if I wanted. I said maybe Friday. He said he was able to climax far more easily than usual, and I said I really hoped that translated into easier coupled orgasms. I have serious doubts about that, though.
> 
> Here's the thing: I know why he didn't tell me first when he was in a mood. It's because having sex with me doesn't give him orgasms, or much pleasure at all. I'm not blind.
> 
> ...


your body knows exactly how to respond... his body might not quite yet know. he DID just have a surgery that changes the way things feel for him. 

honestly, i think you are putting to much pressure on the meaning of sex. if you want it to become something that is easy and natural, you need to treat it like it is a fun activity. something you enjoy, but NOT the be all end all of intimacy. when you can enjoy sex for its simple carnal pleasure, you wont be letting all the pressures of your mind get in the way. 

apparently, you can be quite the vixen when you get out of your own head. that is a good thing. it means that you arent as dysfunctional as you think. you just overthink it. 

it happens. 

its probably best that HE touched himself first though. think about it like this... the surgery was something that was supposed to help improve your sexual relationship. it would be best if he knew how his body was going to respond to touch _before_ the two of you engage in sex. after all, if he doesnt know what feels good anymore, then how can he tell you how to "do it" for him? 

in your case, you genuinely have an opportunity to explore your husbands body all over again. things will feel different for him now, and neither of you really know how that is going to play out. if you treat it like a fun adventure, then you two will likely be fine. but if you are constantly worried because he is not responding the way you think he should, then it will be harder for him to get out of his own head. 

again, i would suggest masturbating with him. try spending time with him, naked, being sexual. basically, get used to treating sex like its just an enjoyable thing you can do with your husband, instead of the ultimate expression of intimacy. 

think about it like this: if he wanted you to kiss him in a specific way that describes your eternal devotion to him, but you dont really know exactly how to do that, then how much anxiety would you feel when he asks you to kiss him? conversely, if he wants you to kiss him because he really enjoys kissing you, and he breaks into a giant grin and picks you up off your feet every time you do, then how much anxiety would you feel when he asks you to kiss him?


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think you need to calm down and let the poor man finish healing. If you had surgery on your lady parts, and he said that HE was to be the first person to ever touch them after healing (Not you, the owner) - would that be reasonable? No. No, not at all. It's his body, and sex / masturbation has always been uncomfortable for him, so leave him alone. Maybe he was afraid it wouldn't work right. Maybe he was afraid of bleeding or getting pain the first time with you, and wanted to take it for a test ride. You two are going to have GREAT sex together. Calm down and don't put any more anxiety on him.

Now go make love to your darling husband. Twice!


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

Maxwedge 413 said:


> I think you need to calm down and let the poor man finish healing. If you had surgery on your lady parts, and he said that HE was to be the first person to ever touch them after healing (Not you, the owner) - would that be reasonable? No. No, not at all. It's his body, and sex / masturbation has always been uncomfortable for him, so leave him alone. Maybe he was afraid it wouldn't work right. Maybe he was afraid of bleeding or getting pain the first time with you, and wanted to take it for a test ride. You two are going to have GREAT sex together. Calm down and don't put any more anxiety on him.
> 
> Now go make love to your darling husband. Twice!


The test it out first thing makes sense to me. He didn't know how his penis was going to react. It worked for him, so look as it as a positive.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

When I had my vasectomy, and many years later the reversal, my first orgasm after healing was by myself. And it was scary, both times. Would it hurt? Would there be blood, or chunks of matter? It was not something I wanted to find out with my partner / wife the first time.

So I totally see where DH was coming from. As much as men brag about their penises and are willing to put them in some unsavory places, we are also very protective of our parts and afraid of damaging anything down there. I think most ladies are "used to" OBGYN visits, but men don't go through that, other than the rare "turn your head and cough" physicals.

Hopefully you guys have had a chance to try out the new merchandise. Please let us know if the sex has improved. Or at least his enthusiasm for it, which will lead to more frequent and hopefully fulfilling sessions.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

We did try having... a sort of sex. I thought it would be easier for him to climax if I tried to keep everything as much the same as his masturbatory sessions used to be as possible. So we both did mutual masturbation while watching porn on our own laptops, nearby to each other. He got very close to climax, but said he couldn't lose himself enough to finish. He got 99% of the way there, but knowing I was nearby, watching him, stopped his orgasm. I was the same. I got turned on, but I couldn't climax because I was too nervous and sad about _his_ inability to climax.

He said it might be better next time if we try to have penetrative sex without porn. I asked, "Why? If keeping things almost the same as your brain is used to except for one thing doesn't get you off, how can a completely different sensation with completely different visual stimuli possibly get you off?"

He said maybe it would be better because penetrative sex is interactive, and we'd be an active participants, not just watching and being watched. He said he hoped I wasn't _too_ disappointed. I was really trying hard not to let my sadness show, so I'd hoped he hadn't noticed. I told him I couldn't be too disappointed as I had the very same inability to climax as he did. I said, it really was progress, though, if small progress, because he DID get closer to climax than he could before.

At least I got to see the type of porn he looks at, which is very vanilla, actually. I figured he'd be into something really deviant from the norm if he couldn't climax with an actual woman, but all the women were just normal, naked women, nothing else.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> We did try having... a sort of sex. I thought it would be easier for him to climax if I tried to keep everything as much the same as his masturbatory sessions used to be as possible. So we both did mutual masturbation while watching porn on our own laptops, nearby to each other. He got very close to climax, but said he couldn't lose himself enough to finish. He got 99% of the way there, but knowing I was nearby, watching him, stopped his orgasm. I was the same. I got turned on, but I couldn't climax because I was too nervous and sad about _his_ inability to climax.
> 
> He said it might be better next time if we try to have penetrative sex without porn. I asked, "Why? If keeping things almost the same as your brain is used to except for one thing doesn't get you off, how can a completely different sensation with completely different visual stimuli possibly get you off?"
> 
> ...


here is a trick i learned from the early days of my marriage...

speak a fantasy out loud while you are masturbating with your spouse. in order to be able to speak it, you have to be able to focus on it. i had my wife do this when she was unable to climax for pretty much the same reason you mentioned. speaking the fantasy out loud was enough to get her to take her mind off of it enough to get lost in it. 

for it to work, you have to really spell it out. SAY the thing that you would find INCREDIBLY hot. picture it in your head so that you can describe it. 

if YOU can learn how to do that and have an orgasm, then you will know how to guide him through it. but, you may not even have to guide him through it. he will likely let his mind relax just from seeing you relax.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Perhaps the situation is just being made too complicated. Schedule some time, create a comfortable environment, start by telling each other there's definitely nothing to be embarrassed about no matter what happens, orgasms or not. And you do him, intercourse/other, and he you if doesn't happen while doing other things already, maybe you help him do you. Turn the porn off by the way. Keep the porn off. It's a distraction....the focus is on you as a couple/spending time together. If it works the first try good, if you get tired, stop, lay together listening to the radio, etc. Already having told each other if it doesn't happen this time "we'll get it next time" and take the pressure off "this time". It will happen.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

naked showers. cant go wrong with naked showers.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

And naked showers are always good


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

As'laDain said:


> naked showers. cant go wrong with naked showers.


Yep. 
Even if it doesn't lead to awesome sex, it's just good clean fun. It's the best way for two people to be vulnerable, yet have fun with each other, in a low-threat scenario.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

And the right ambiance... Fireplace, some impossible to resist wine, candles, and best of all, the right music.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yep.
> Even if it doesn't lead to awesome sex, it's just good clean fun. It's the best way for two people to be vulnerable, yet have fun with each other, in a low-threat scenario.


yep! and non-naked showers are just awkward. 

:grin2:


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

gowithuhtred said:


> Perhaps the situation is just being made too complicated. Schedule some time, create a comfortable environment, start by telling each other there's definitely nothing to be embarrassed about no matter what happens, orgasms or not. And you do him, intercourse/other, and he you if doesn't happen while doing other things already, maybe you help him do you. Turn the porn off by the way. Keep the porn off. It's a distraction....the focus is on you as a couple/spending time together. If it works the first try good, if you get tired, stop, lay together listening to the radio, etc. Already having told each other if it doesn't happen this time "we'll get it next time" and take the pressure off "this time". It will happen.




Silly wabbit...no one listens to the radio anymore 

Sorry...I couldn’t resist! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

no, no, that's true. No radio no more....I've written "Pandora, Alexa, Spotify in other docs.....What was I thinking here.....flashback maybe.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Oh my goodness, girly. I am exhausted of these 6 pages and haven't even read your other posts. Before I comment on your posts, I really need to suggest that if your career is not in writing, then it truly should be. Even if only as a ghost writer if your own book or stories are of no interest to you. Okay, I said that and will move on.

About your posts though, you think too much. Way too much. You're making yourself miserable with it. I really don't think any of your problem has anything to do with you specifically. As many others have stated, that man of yours needs to quit masturbating. It's what every man has to do after having spent much of their teen years with that as their only, or at least regular, source of pleasure. If he doesn't, it will be nearly impossible for him to enjoy you. His hand isn't something you need to feel like you have to compete with. Since you do (although you don't seem to realize that since you were hesitant to ask him to stop), then your self esteem will forever be in the tank. Whether you have a self esteem problem or not, he has certainly given you one, which has nothing to actually do with you at all. It's his doing completely. He is no longer a teenage masturbator and needs to grow up. Sex shouldn't be something he thinks he's doing for you as some kind of favor. As your husband, he is seriously failing you in a number of ways, and you are interlizling all of it. But, those kinds of burdens shouldn't be dumped on your head.

He also needs to give up porn. No real woman can measure up to any of that. The vanilla porn you think he watches is not all the pornography that he does watch. There is no telling what he watches. You would probably be surprised to know. You might even be shocked. Who knows, you might be appalled for that matter. What you know about is only one sampling, yet the amount of time he has spent masturbating and watching porn is inordinate for a married man. It's a terrible disservice to you, so please stop thinking that being unable to please him has anything to do with you, your body, or your abilities. It has NOTHING to do with you in any way whatsoever. Indeed, I would wager that is the real reason he didn't finish that day. I am betting that vanilla porn is hardly what he usually watches.

I'm confused about some things you stated, such as:


EllaSuaveterre said:


> We have V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y learned the mechanics of sex, like how he has to angle himself, how I have to relax, etc. But we don't know how to make it feel good.


That is so confusing to me, or maybe perplexing is a better word. Exactly what does "how he has to angle himself" mean? Who has to do any angling? Does he have a bad leg or bad knee or something? Pain in his back maybe? What is the problem and why is angling himself necessary? Is this angling done in any of the porn movies you have seen? I am doubting it, so I don't know what you are referring to, and that helps me to reiterate that you think too much. You overanalyze. You both make way too much of the act of intercourse, and I think he could take it or leave it because he's addicted to porn and his hand. Again, he does you a terrible disservice. Nevertheless, you both make having sex way too much of a production.

Okay, so he got the circumcision to repair the phimosis. What will be the problem now? The problem on his end will remain that he still watches porn and masturbates. You have got to accept that as being the barrier to him climaxing when he's with you. It is the one and only barrier.

The problem for you will remain that he still doesn't know how to please you. I think you expect more from intercourse than just the act alone can yield. It takes know how to please a woman, and the porn he watches doesn't do any teaching. It's often an experienced man that teaches a woman about her own body because of the pleasure he knows how to give her, and, often times, that experienced man was taught by a woman who learned that way. Another member in this thread mentioned she hates intercourse. A lot of women feel that way, but it's sad commentary because it means her husband/boyfriend doesn't know how to please her just like yours doesn't know how to please you. Penetration for a man is pleasurable (except in the case of a teenage masturbator who refuses to grow up), but it's not automatically pleasurable for a woman just because he is inside her. A man's pleasure center is located just beneath the tip of his penis, but a woman has many pleasure zones in her vagina that have to be stimulated. The man's size may be such that he can reach some of her erogenous zones, or his size may be such that he cannot reach some of them. If he stimulates you properly, relaxation for you becomes involuntary and not something you have to think to do, nor is it something you have to convince yourself to do. It's not something that requires effort from you at all. It will happen completely without you knowing. Many women are apprehensive. Many are shy. Many are unable to relax. This is not something exclusive to you. However, when it starts feeling good to her, all of the apprehension melts away and is no longer something that crosses her mind.

So, I'm going to teach you a couple ways you can teach him to make sex feel good to you:

Your first erogenous zone is your g-spot and is located on the roof 1-3 inches from the opening of your vagina. If you run your tongue (or your finger/thumb) across the roof of your mouth, you will feel how ridgy it is. That's almost the way your g-spot feels to his fingertips so that he knows what it feels like when he locates it. To locate your g-spot, have him turn his hand palm side up and penetrate 1 or 2 fingers inside to feel the roof of your vagina to the fleshy, ridgy area. It's just past the opening maybe about 2 inches, maybe less or maybe a little more. Have him apply pressure while massaging his finger(s) back and forth, or he can crook his fingers back and forth as though he's telling someone to come here. If it doesn't feel good to you, then he is either not at the right spot or he' s not applying enough pressure. He can bring you to orgasm doing this. If he does it right, he will have you screaming.

Your g-spot is also the best area to bring you to orgasm during intercourse. Because it is located so close to the opening, almost any sized man can reach it to pleasure a woman vaginally. This is the reason many women know that size really doesn't matter. What matters is a man knowing how to use his tool no matter the size that he is. If your husband does not pleasure you and the act of sex falls flat and disappointing, or someone saying they hate intercourse, then he isn't reaching your a-spots that are located deeper/farther inside when he penetrates you, and he simply doesn't know how or doesn't know what else to do. Therefore, he should focus on your g-spot during penetration, rather than just entering and thrusting inside of you that is pleasurable to him but not to you, or at least not enough to make you orgasm.

So, have him stand on his knees, kneeling in front of you. You then place both legs on his shoulders. This position best exposes your g-spot to make it easily accessible. When he penetrates you, his aim is not to go all the way in. He only wants to penetrate right to the g-spot, so remember it's located just 1-3 inches (likely about 2 inches) inside. If he did this first with his fingers, he will have a better idea where it is. He then thrusts directly at your g-spot. If he does this correctly, he will make you lose your mind.

What is most erotic is if he keeps his thrusts long and relatively slow, which is mainly applying long strokes of pressure to your g-spot, as opposed to steady or rapid thrusts. You and he should experiment with different types of strokes to find what is most pleasurable for you. Also try the long, hard pressure strokes and then graduate into shorter, faster thrusts. You can determine if he thrusts too hard or too rapidly.

G-spot stimulation works great for a man of any size. If, however, your guy has a.....ahem (scuse me, guys, this is a term I just heard two days ago).....micropenis, then maybe he can't reach your g-spot, but it can still be pleasurable for you if he thrusts around the top of the opening and just above it. You are quite sensitive there too although it may take longer to reach orgasm.

Okay, so that's two and here's another:
When he goes down on you, there is a method to that also. It's all about knowing how to do it to make it the most pleasurable for you because not knowing how to do it can be annoying and entirely unpleasurable. You take delight in the fact that he finally does it, which is great, but he still needs to know how to do it. And, every time that he goes down, he should drive you crazy and make you cum. If he doesn't, he doesn't know what he's doing, which he likely doesn't know how being that you were both inexperienced when you married. He doesn't know how, and you didn't know how to teach him, so now you will know.

First of all, flicking is a no-no. Inexperienced men like to flick a woman's clitoris with their tongue, but that's only because they don't know not to do it. But, it's annoying, downright aggravating and not pleasurable. Running his tongue over your clitoris feels good but flicking doesn't. I don't doubt he flicks you because it's often done in porn videos. Those are not teaching tools but have been his only source of knowledge, so he doesn't know not to do it.

With the exception of flicking, everything else he does is probably okay and should be incorporated with proper licking and sucking. Just ask him to practice sucking on your clitoris. To practice, have him purse his lips as if sucking a milkshake or soda pop through a straw and then suck on the tip of one of his fingers, sucking gently, releasing, sucking gently again, and repeat. That is the way to suck on your clitoris. So, along with licking around the area at his leisure, ask him to concentrate a moment on the area just beneath your clit. That is an extremely sensitive area, and he can bring you to orgasm if he keeps licking right there. But, to really send you over the edge, he should pay attention to the area right underneath for a moment, and then properly suck on your clit. And then repeat. And maybe do it again. Your orgasm can be completely under his control, and he decides when to make you cum. The sensations will be so intense that you will writhe with pleasure and squirm to get away from him while begging him not to stop.

Soooo, there you have some techniques to work on and pleasure to work toward. I don't know anything about all the books and methods you have been mentioning or the ones that were recommended to you. All I know is what works and what doesn't work. I haven't read you mention anything about you and him learning how to make sex good for you, so I figured some techniques are what you guys have been missing. I can tell you that most men take great pride in pleasing their woman and find that alone to be very pleasurable. If your husband doesn't find pride and pleasure in pleasing you, then it just shows how selfish he is to be so wrapped up in flying solo.

Again, the only recommendation I have for making sex more pleasurable for him so he finish when he's with you is for him to stop masturbating and watching porn so he can grow up and learn to appreciate a real woman. If he does, that will be good. If he doesn't, I can't emphasize enough that it is not your fault and is no reflection on you. Stop analyzing it. Stop overthinking it. Stop internalizing it because it has nothing to do with you. He has trained himself to the tight grip of his hand, so no woman could ever please him like he pleases himself. If you, being a virgin when you married, cannot make him get off, then no woman could because he will not make it possible, so it has nothing to do with you or your abilities or your vagina. He just doesn't because it's not his hand. Many here have told you this and some posted links with information about it, but you keep ignoring the facts to turn the responsibility onto yourself. It is not your responsibility. It's up to him to make it possible for himself, but he refuses because he wants to keep masturbating. I will say again that he is doing you an awful disservice by robbing you of the ability to please him. 

I once had a boyfriend, who was what is called a minuteman. He came way too quickly and wouldn't do anything to improve his stamina. He asked me to marry him and out of all the five proposals I received, he was the only one I would have said yes to because I loved him that much and thought we could build a good life together. But, there was no way I could say yes. There was no way I was going to live the rest of my life with someone who climaxed in less than two minutes of lovemaking. There was no pleasure in it for me because he finished too quickly, and that was too bad because the minute or so that he did last was quite enjoyable. It was his responsibility to improve our sex life but after two and half years way too long for me to put up with him, he still wouldn't, so I broke up with him never to look back.

Your husband has the opposite problem, but the outcome is the same in that he robs you of the enjoyment of lovemaking by not working on himself and insisting on remaining a teenage masturbator. You think there is something bad about asking him not to masturbate, but it's what he needs to do. If he continues to refuse to work on himself, then you have to decide to either not worry about it and let him do whatever he wants so long as he makes sure you are sexually satisfied, or you decide to let him go and find another who is willing to be a grown man and more compatible. What you cannot do is continue blaming yourself.

I was going to comment on several of your statements in other posts on this thread, but I'll keep it to just one since I've already written a novel . . .



EllaSuaveterre said:


> I asked the surgeon today, "What happens if he suffers from reduced sexual sensitivity?" to which the surgeon replied, "That's a common side effect. There's nothing you can do. That's just going to happen." As he had almost no pleasure from PIV and very limited pleasure from manual stimulation from me to begin with, if his sensitivity tanks, I'm sure our sex life will be permanently dead. I'm scared he'll never feel any kind of pleasure from me.


That's a natural part of being circumsized. Men who are circumcissed at birth are less sensitive than men who were never circumcised. The reason is the foreskin protects the sensitive area of the penis, whereas circumcised men don't have that protection and are exposed. The exposure is what makes them less sensitive, but it's nothing to compare, and it will take him a while to become less sensitized since he has spent his life protected. However, it will make no difference in your sex life as long as he refuses to work on himself and stop masturbating. You cannot make it happen. You cannot set the mood. You cannot reproduce the atmosphere. You have to stop thinking it's up to you or that it has anything to do with you. Stop expecting miracles. Only he can make it happen.

So, there you have some techniques to liberate yourself sexually and some no-nonsense advice to disabuse yourself of the thinking that you are responsible for your husband's orgasms. Do something with this information, please.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

You're right. I can't fix it on my own, and frankly I have a feeling it will never be fixed, because he cannot go more than a few days without climaxing and does not want to ask me to make love instead of turning on his laptop, because it makes him feel too shy and awkward, and the awkwardness kills his desire. I knew all of that, of course, but at least he's forthright about it.

And continuing with honesty, deep down I don't believe this should hurt me, because I actually have the same problem with porn. I can get mildly aroused when I'm with my husband-- and very often do-- but I cannot climax unless I'm completely alone and reading literotica. If I want intimacy and connection and don't care about my own pleasure, I go to my husband. But if I want physical fulfillment, I will always choose porn. So it feels hypocritical to be hurt by it when my husband and I share the same... ahem... issue. But I'm hurt nonetheless. What if there's a real woman out there who CAN pleasure him? And what if he meets her and decides that he can't live a sexless life with me? I can't bear to think about that.

I told my husband that sex to me feels like I've opened Pandora's box, and I'm afraid of where shedding light on our apparently unfixable problem will lead. It will, of course, lead to a dead end in which we are content with emotionally intimate, but physically void, sexual acts. Until the day he meets someone else who checks all his boxes. He says that's absolute nonsense, and he feels closer to me than ever since we've started trying to have sex. He says he wants to continue trying to have sex as often as possible for the intimacy aspect, and he says he "has hope" that he'll learn to climax. Of course, he won't. I know that. I don't know if he knows that yet.

Again, I wish I could stop caring about something so mundane and petty as an orgasm.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> You're right. I can't fix it on my own, and frankly I have a feeling it will never be fixed, because he cannot go more than a few days without climaxing and does not want to ask me to make love instead of turning on his laptop, because it makes him feel too shy and awkward, and the awkwardness kills his desire. I knew all of that, of course, but at least he's forthright about it.
> 
> And continuing with honesty, deep down I don't believe this should hurt me, because I actually have the same problem with porn. I can get mildly aroused when I'm with my husband-- and very often do-- but I cannot climax unless I'm completely alone and reading literotica. If I want intimacy and connection and don't care about my own pleasure, I go to my husband. But if I want physical fulfillment, I will always choose porn. So it feels hypocritical to be hurt by it when my husband and I share the same... ahem... issue. But I'm hurt nonetheless. What if there's a real woman out there who CAN pleasure him? And what if he meets her and decides that he can't live a sexless life with me? I can't bear to think about that.
> 
> ...


not cool. if you have already made up your mind that this wont get better, then you wont allow him to move passed it. 

stop doing that.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i think you two need to spend a lot of time naked with each other. until it no longer feels awkward.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> not cool. if you have already made up your mind that this wont get better, then you wont allow him to move passed it.
> 
> stop doing that.


It's not exactly that I've made up my mind, or that I've made a decision to stop trying to make it better-- for I will never stop trying. It's just that, well, the pessimistic answer seems to be the closest to the correct one, doesn't it? I'll try to be optimistic when I'm with him, for both our sakes, but having actual, genuine hope scares me, because what if my hopes don't come true at all? It feels safer somehow to always expect the worst, because at least that way disappointment might not hurt.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> It's not exactly that I've made up my mind, or that I've made a decision to stop trying to make it better-- for I will never stop trying. It's just that, well, the pessimistic answer seems to be the closest to the correct one, doesn't it? I'll try to be optimistic when I'm with him, for both our sakes, but having actual, genuine hope scares me, because what if my hopes don't come true at all? It feels safer somehow to always expect the worst, because at least that way disappointment might not hurt.


it isnt better to always expect the worst. it just means that you live your life only LOOKING for the worst outcome, which means that you will likely sabotage anything that looks better. 

think about this, your husband literally had a surgery done in order to have a better sex life with you. he is making attempts. he has fixed the physical part that has hindered him for his entire life so far. fixing the mental part that went along with it is probably going to take some time. 

there are two kinds of people in the world. those who believe they can, and those who believe they cant. both are almost ALWAYS correct. 

dont make the mistake of missing opportunities to continue positive momentum. dont take a positive movement and let it fall flat, simply resorting to your pessimistic view. take that positive step, rejoice over it, and beam with hope. because the continued attempts show that it WILL likely happen, so long as you let it. its just a learning process. 

if you cannot accept the learning process for what it is without dismissing the entire endeavor as unattainable, then you wont attain it. in which case you will be causing your own fears of him finding someone else to be more likely. 

stop assuming its impossible. learn and grow like everyone else does. its always awkward at first. only those who are too afraid to fall never learn to walk. 

children learn to walk because they are too busy being curious to fear the next fall.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I suppose you've got a point. Perhaps there is a chance that someday we can learn to have sex. We've only been seriously trying for a couple months, after all...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I suppose you've got a point. Perhaps there is a chance that someday we can learn to have sex. We've only been seriously trying for a couple months, after all...


not only that, but you have been making attempts while still believing that it cannot really change. even _with_ that belief, however, things have improved, according to both you and your husband. 

keep trying, over and over. never accept the idea that it cannot change, because it already has. and smile, you two have already made breakthroughs.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

gowithuhtred said:


> no, no, that's true. No radio no more....I've written "Pandora, Alexa, Spotify in other docs.....What was I thinking here.....flashback maybe.




Ha hahaa! Spotify premium is the bees knees! You can pull up and listen to almost any song. My suggestion would be to make a “love making” playlist. I have one!! It does help with relaxation and getting in the mood. Add a few candle and viola! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> i think you two need to spend a lot of time naked with each other. until it no longer feels awkward.


Yes, please! Dear God woman, I can't believe how much writing is being done to encourage a young married couple who loves each other - to go have sex! Actual sex, not mutual masturbation. Stop thinking and start screwing! Not all women can orgasm from PIV, and it takes many ladies a long time to figure out just what needs to happen to orgasm with a partner. But for a man it's a no-brainer - Put it in and stroke till you orgasm. It's really as simple as that.

I have no problem with you two watching porn and masturbating if you want. But put it on your calendar to have PIV sex every night for the next week. Starting tonight. He is going to be very sensitive since he lost his foreskin, and don't be surprised if he doesn't last very long. I am very confused by your writing that he can't orgasm. Do you mean _Now_, after the circumcision, or before when he had the phimosis? I would expect him to orgasm almost instantly (when doing PIV) since the surgery. And stop worrying about him losing sensitivity. He will, but only to the level where he won't be "_too_" sensitive. As in, too sensitive to wear underwear because it feels like sandpaper. He'll never ever get so desensitized that a lovely vagina like yours won't feel Awe-Some to him. Never.

Turn your brain off and make physical, loving sexy-time to your wonderful husband. Do it. Don't expect anything. Stop worrying about everything. Tell him he's a sexy hunk and screw his brains out. Once he has an orgasm in you that will be the only thing he thinks about. He might have a car accident thinking about it so much.

Stop being crazy in your head and start getting crazy in the sheets. Please.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What sex therapists have you talked with about setting up an appointment?


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Wow, all that for nothing. What a shame. I feel like the mulberry bush all the people in your head run around must be having more fun in life than you are. It's like you take pleasure in nothing except mentally abusing yourself. I have wondered why you always stop intercourse and thought it was just because you weren't enjoying it, so I thought that some how-tos were necessary since you were both inexperienced and he didn't know how to please you. You received all kinds of other advice that weren't working, so that was a natural conclusion, but I was wrong. I was wrong to think he was the one sabotaging your sexual satisfaction, but I see you make great effort to do that yourself, along with making sure you have something to fear as though you don't want to live without it. Or, maybe it's that you fear living without fear. I don't know. I'm no therapist, but neither is anyone here.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I suppose you've got a point. Perhaps there is a chance that someday we can learn to have sex. We've only been seriously trying for a couple months, after all...


I'm pretty sure if platypus, penguins and potato beetles can do it, two healthy young humans can figure it out too. :wink2:


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## Shamrockfaced (Feb 9, 2018)

StarFires said:


> Wow, all that for nothing. What a shame. I feel like the mulberry bush all the people in your head run around must be having more fun in life than you are. It's like you take pleasure in nothing except mentally abusing yourself. I have wondered why you always stop intercourse and thought it was just because you weren't enjoying it, so I thought that some how-tos were necessary since you were both inexperienced and he didn't know how to please you. You received all kinds of other advice that weren't working, so that was a natural conclusion, but I was wrong. I was wrong to think he was the one sabotaging your sexual satisfaction, but I see you make great effort to do that yourself, along with making sure you have something to fear as though you don't want to live without it. Or, maybe it's that you fear living without fear. I don't know. I'm no therapist, but neither is anyone here.


I agree with everything that starfires stated in the first post 100%. Your man is addicted to porn and has no ability to orgasm because of his commitment to self sex over his marriage. The physical issues are simply distractions from the truth that have sent you both on a goose chase. The other problem, that you have now admitted to, is you have the same problem. Porn is ruining sex and marriage for both of you. In order to repair you marriage, you both need to detox. To say "I can't do it" is simply a refusal to acknowledge that porn and self sex is more important to each of you than intimacy in your marriage. 

I don't think this is something that happens overnight or even a few days. I would start with a two week commitment with each other to completely detox from porn and masturbation, for each of you. Maybe longer. I would not have sex with each other during this time. I think if you detoxed for 3 days and then had sex with each other you would both find yourself mentally focused on the porn images burned into your brain to bring you to orgasm. Your neural pathways need some time to heal and your brain needs to be able to uncover new pathways to pleasure.

Men get into all sorts of trouble for sticking their Wang into crazy things for pleasure: I simply refuse to believe that your vagina is not as suitable as his hand. 

Also.... He was not being honest with you about the porn he watches.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

https://www.google.com/search?q=no+...5.69i57j0l5.7831j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The porn needs to go unless/until you to two become able to have great partnered sex together.

The part where you called sex over-glorified hurt my heart. Trust me, sex can be absolutely mind blowingly reality alteringly amazing. It only seems over-glorified because you've never had good sex, much less amazing sex. If you try, though, I believe you can get there. And part of that trying it going to be to ditch porn altogether for months, if not forever, and focus on each other as your sole sources of sexual pleasure.

Also, you really are way overthinking it. If you think you need chemical help lowering inhibitions so that you can learn to enjoy sex, I suggest skipping the alcohol and trying weed if you don't have any objections to Mary Jane. You get the same inhibition lowering effect, but you'd be able to remember it later.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

also, whatever porn he was watching.. dont assume that is what he is into... it could have been a "oh crap, wife is watching... lets go vanilla"

Dont assume he doesnt have some deep fetish fantasy that he wont show you


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Steve2.0 said:


> also, whatever porn he was watching.. dont assume that is what he is into... it could have been a "oh crap, wife is watching... lets go vanilla"
> 
> Dont assume he doesnt have some deep fetish fantasy that he wont show you


I anticipated this actually, and although I know it wouldn't be the same, I would be willing to indulge him and try to replicate any fantasy he has that doesn't involve animals or children. I've told him as much, but so far he hasn't taken me up on this offer except for some of the most vanilla "fetishes" you can think of, like fishnet tights.

He's gotten drunk enough to confess one or two more unconventional kinks, but then when I offered to do those things for him later, when he sobered up, he bashfully declined.


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## Shamrockfaced (Feb 9, 2018)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Steve2.0 said:
> 
> 
> > also, whatever porn he was watching.. dont assume that is what he is into... it could have been a "oh crap, wife is watching... lets go vanilla"
> ...


Whoa! You're making a major mistake here. You're assuming you can replicate, or try to replicate whatever is tuning him on in the world of porn. You can't compete and you don't want to. It's deviant. In fact, most likely he would not want that either. Fantasy and reality do not always mix.

Some guys love watching gangbangs or all sorts of other stuff, but would never entertain the thought of actually doing that. Instead of taking a step to eliminate, or normalize, the problems existing because of porn, you're exasperating them.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Are you really looking for an answer? I don't mean to be blunt or hurt your feelings but there are a great many good answers here. Some go off the rails but most appear great suggestions. It sounds like you're not trying any of the answers. Just writing again and again woe is me...(sorry)

And don't expect to fail, know if something doesn't happen this time, we'll get it next time. 

I like AsLaDain's simple answer "Just spend enough time together nekkid until you're both no longer the least bit embarrassed". 

In a long term relationship you each will help the other go to the bathroom after, say, a surgery or similar. After the first time for that, it's hard to get embarrassed especially just having sex.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

gowithuhtred said:


> Are you really looking for an answer? I don't mean to be blunt or hurt your feelings but there are a great many good answers here. Some go off the rails but most appear great suggestions. It sounds like you're not trying any of the answers. Just writing again and again woe is me...(sorry)
> 
> And don't expect to fail, know if something doesn't happen this time, we'll get it next time.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I hope As'laDain is right. 

I have tried doing almost every single one of the things suggested. Just having sex to get comfy with one another, not caring about his orgasm to take the pressure off, watching porn together, suggesting a temporary ban on porn, doing sensate focus, scheduling sex talking openly and honestly about sex and porn and attraction, buying sex books and using them, getting him circumcised... 

We've tried everything except a sex therapist, and each of these things do seem to have helped a little bit. Some things, like the books and the sex schedule, have helped a great deal. Just, not enough yet. I'm sorry it comes off as complaining to you, but I'll try anything to get him to enjoy having sex with me, and I AM trying things. And so, it would appear, is he.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Honestly, I hope As'laDain is right.
> 
> I have tried doing almost every single one of the things suggested. Just having sex to get comfy with one another, not caring about his orgasm to take the pressure off, watching porn together, suggesting a temporary ban on porn, doing sensate focus, scheduling sex talking openly and honestly about sex and porn and attraction, buying sex books and using them, getting him circumcised...
> 
> We've tried everything except a sex therapist, and each of these things do seem to have helped a little bit. Some things, like the books and the sex schedule, have helped a great deal. Just, not enough yet. I'm sorry it comes off as complaining to you, but I'll try anything to get him to enjoy having sex with me, and I AM trying things. And so, it would appear, is he.


plan a nekkid day. 

"husband, we are both free friday night. i want to get everything we might need between friday night and saturday night, because i don't want to leave the house. we can get whatever we want to entertain ourselves, just no clothes outside of items meant specifically to turn the other on"

and then, dont make it all about sex. make it about being naughty and fun. let sex happen if you two find yourselves reaching for each other, but dont push for it to go one way or another. just be playful. the anticipation and playfulness is where most of the fun is for those kinds of days...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you considered getting him to go to therapy? On his own? The biggest hurdle I see is his lack of faith in himself, seeing himself as not good enough, or somehow BAD. His own hangup is y'all's biggest problem.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

A brief update: he and I are making love a little more often, although not nearly as often as I'm told healthy couples "do it." Now that he's healed from his surgery, we have sexual contact of some kind around once or twice a month, which is better but not exactly the stuff of romance novels. I usually initiate sex, but he never, ever refuses me when I do, and always says he'd love to do it more. He will sometimes approach me, naked, for cuddles, but in not sure if that's an attempt at initiation because we've been frequently naked around each other since we've been married, and it doesn't often lead to him feeling me up. We still haven't learned how to climax in front of each other, though we have gotten close. VERY close. He's more physically responsive to my touch, so that's a step in the right direction. We had an absolutely beautiful experience 3 weeks or so ago, and another fairly good one tonight. We're trying. 

I honestly think the problem is that we're both shy, submissive, and awkward to the nth degree, and neither of us really want to be the one to have to take charge over our sex life. We're just fine talking openly about sexual things, cuddling, and making out, but when third base happens it all goes askew.

I also dont understand how and why self-pleasure is so much more psychologically and physically comfortable than sex with someone you know, love deeply, and trust. This is true for both of us. Foreplay can make us feel good, but our technique with each other is poor, and besides that we both seem unable to let ourselves go, psychologically, enough to build up a feeling of pleasure or an orgasm. All of our encounters end with us realizing that we're not going to be able to climax, thanking each other for the effort and the romance, cuddling and cleaning up, and calling it a night. 

I wish we had a "normal" sex life, but I can't say I hold it against him in any way that we don't, because A) it's clear to me from the way he responds to my advances that he is willing to try to develop our sex life and B) we are exactly the same, sexually. We have all of the same hangups. Neither of us feel comfortable initiating, neither of us can climax in front of the other, both of us are relatively low-libido, and neither is us have had a sex life outside of our marriage so we don't really understand what we're missing. We have equal share of blame here. 

He tells me he wants to have sex more often, and so I'm trying to make myself okay with more potentially awkward encounters, and trying really hard not to feel awkward in the first place during said encounters.

Overall, though, I think we're heading in the right direction. I'm a little more comfortable initiating, he's a little more responsive, and we're both a little more capable of feeling pleasure with each other. Something that has changed my responsiveness rather drastically is that I am now able to climax thinking of him, rather than reading erotica. I'm still too shy and uncomfortable to climax WITH him, but it's a start.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I anticipated this actually, and although I know it wouldn't be the same, I would be willing to indulge him and try to replicate any fantasy he has that doesn't involve animals or children. I've told him as much, but so far he hasn't taken me up on this offer except for some of the most vanilla "fetishes" you can think of, like fishnet tights.
> 
> He's gotten drunk enough to confess one or two more unconventional kinks, but then *when I offered to do those things for him later, when he sobered up, he bashfully declined.*


He declined because he is embarrassed. 

He still holds you high.

You are his goodness.

Stay high.

Bending, in this case, will go counter to his needs.

When he gazes at you, he sees vanilla.
His favorite spice.

Do not change the recipe. Do not over stir the pot, make mush of the lovely..... long grain, wild rice.

He is a lucky man and he knows it.



The Host-


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sounds like things are moving nicely for the both of you.

Do not make the general mistake that you have to match what is considered "normal".

From your posting it seems that things are progressing nicely and more importantly the both of you seem to be on the same page in moving forward.

In my own opinion, the most important thing that I see is that you are willing to work on things with your husband and he seems to reciprocate it as well. This is by far the most important piece of the puzzle.

Good luck and as mentioned before, just let things develop while you both learn and progress.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you guys have access to HBO?


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

turnera said:


> Do you guys have access to HBO?


No, we have, Netflix, why?


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

Is your avatar picture you or is it the woman on Game of Thrones (Daneil)?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Problematically, you are each other's firsts. I was completely experienced and my wife was a virgin. She is aware that two of my earlier lovers were older than myself and I learned how to pleasure a woman from those two wonderful women. Another of my earlier lovers was of the same age, but different race (and had a real thing for Jewish guys), she was much more open with her sexuality, something I was not at the time comfortable with. She taught me to be comfortable with my sexuality. I was a very big boy. Ok, I slimmed down some in my dating years but a big hairy guy. And because I was experienced and comfortable, I did not want for dates, (this was the 70's and I DJ'ed single events, so the DJ always does well). My wife has really only been with myself. She considers herself the happy recipient of the education provided to me. She says that my consideration for her extends to my curiosity about sex, and my research of same. (she had an ONS as a reaction to a stupid affair on my behalf, she could not get over his complete lack of consideration for her, essentially he hopped on, did it and hopped off, she asked for oral, and he said he Never did that.)

Since neither of you are experienced, it may be necessary to go to the next level. I would be checking with reputable therapists for a referral to a licensed sex therapist. I have served one specialist in the field. She was the most soft spoken, and thorougly fascinating woman. Apparently she had helped thousands of couples find their way to one another. There are resources out there, and , you sound young enough to be my daughter. You owe it to each other to go to this level.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I haven't been here in a while but I just want to give you a positive update: the last time we made love, he climaxed!!! He had to use his hand, but he did it with me watching and that was HUGE. I was shaking until bedtime that evening. I held him and kissed him and told him I was so proud of him, of us. 

We haven't attempted it again, though today we did go for a naked couples' salt bath at a spa. It was just the two of us, naked in the dark, together. It didn't get sexual as I was afraid we'd somehow be found out even though it was pitch black, but maybe it helped further acclimate him to the idea of nakedness and sexual vulnerability with me.

Furthermore, I have stopped reading literotica, and am now so turned on by him, that I am capable of bringing myself to climax thinking solely of him. Once, I did so without even touching myself. I'm still too nervous during sex to climax WITH him, but I think that if he continues to improve, I will eventually be able to relax into it and enjoy it, safe in the knowledge that he likes it too.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"Furthermore, I have stopped reading literotica, and am now so turned on by him, that I am capable of bringing:myself to climax thinking solely of him."
Ella, what were you reading that kept you from being turned on by him? Sounds like you had your own "porn" issue here?

Congrats btw on the improvements! These are all in the right direction.


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## Davidmidwest (Nov 22, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> So, I'm sorry, but given the topic, this is about to get very, very graphic. Be warned.
> 
> After six and a half years of marriage, I have decided that Mr. S. and I need to begin to have a normal sex life. We need to learn how to have sex. It's what other couples do, so we should be doing it, too. Most people say they need sex with their spouse to be happy in the relationship, so maybe I do, too. Most of the reasoning behind this decision to finally care about our sex life comes from my BPD, which is currently in overdrive telling me that he never found me attractive and that he's either going to leave or I'm going to be miserable if I don't give him five orgasms a week. I came really close to asking him for a divorce even though I *REALLY* want to stay with him. I had a panic attack just thinking about ending our marriage and made myself ill because it was such a horrible thought. But, if it's true that he's not attracted to me and doesn't want me, what's the point? Fortunately for us both, a friend of mine talked me out of it and told me I was being crazy. I hope she's right. Not being able to tell the difference between my thoughts and reality is a very vulnerable and dangerous place.
> 
> ...


Hi Sweeheart,
He may have been molested as a child. See a sex therapist if it is a marriage worth salvaging. Otherwise leave. Love making should be this dificult, lovely. I am divorced and I look forward to falling in love again and making love again. It is the most beautiful thing in the world. I would freek out if my wife suggested I was inept at sex and claimed or suggested sleeping with anyone but her. I am not your husband. Hey atleast you both can talk about it.
Most couples can go through their whole life time not being able to talk about sex, let alone, asking for a new position, trying new things, or adding a little soft Kink. Good luck


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

My husband and I are still decidedly very not-good at lovemaking. We have tried a couple handfuls of times in our 6.5 year marriage to make love, and while we do adore each other romantically and platonically, and he seldom rejects me, relaxed and fulfilling sexual contact has never been our strong suit. We migth never have a "good" sex life. I was fine with that. I was honest to god fine with that. I could go without sex forever and it wouldn't make a difference. If I wanted an orgasm, that's what porn was for. My husband was my best friend, my provider, my protector, and seriously handsome, and that was more than enough for me.

And then a few weeks ago, he climaxed during sex with me for the very first time. And my whole world has flipped upside down. I don't want porn anymore. I want him. Not in a cuddly, romantic, or protective way. This new desire is carnal in a way I haven't felt in a long time, if ever. Forgive me for being graphic, but I want him deep inside me flower over and over and over until I melt and burn with the white-hot intensity of a supernova. I can climax merely picturing his manhood for long enough. Without even touching myself. AND I HATE IT. This bears an ill wind, I am sure of it.

I had a realization tonight. I have subconsciously switched off my libido for all these years, because of the sexual problems we've had. I have felt less-than as a woman and a partner because of my inability to give him pleasure, and therefore I stopped wanting pleasure with him. Because why WOULD you want something that leads to a deep sense of inadequacy and self-loathing? The only time I truly enjoyed sex with him was when I was blackout drunk, and my inhibitions weren't there to protect me, nor could I recall the next day how bad it was for him. But his orgasm changed all that. My body and my limbic system have apparently decided that one single orgasm is enough to bring my libido out of hibernation.

And I'm terrified. I'm terrified that now that I know that my lowered libido was a defense mechanism, I'm not going to be able to bring it back to protect me if he never climaxes with me again. I'm terrified that I'll start wanting sex more often than he wants to give it. I'm terrified that I'll be rejected and this time, I won't be able to adopt a handy defense mechanism to make me completely okay with my sexual inferiority.

I told him all this tonight, while we were cuddling and discussing things I wanted to do with him next time we make love. He said he's sure he'll climax again with me at some point. We have 50ish more years of sex-having, so probability is in our favor. And he said that if I do end up becoming a complete nymphomaniac, so long as we can plan for most of our sexy times in advance, he'll be able to handle the increased frequency. I'm reassured, but not totally. We've planned to have sex TWICE next week, which is HUGE considering we just had sex a few days ago, and we usually go for months between sessions.

I hate how vulnerable and scary this new attraction feels. I need to prepare for the worst. If it turns out that I never pleasure him again, how do I get over my sexual inadequacy and accept, eyes wide open, that he doesn't want me like that and/or that I am not good enough for him sexually, while also recognizing that he very much DOES want me as a friend, a wife, a romantic partner, and all the other roles I fill in his life? How do I reassure myself that, sex or no sex, I'm still good enough for him?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> My husband and I are still decidedly very not-good at lovemaking. We have tried a couple handfuls of times in our 6.5 year marriage to make love, and while we do adore each other romantically and platonically, and he seldom rejects me, relaxed and fulfilling sexual contact has never been our strong suit. We migth never have a "good" sex life. I was fine with that. I was honest to god fine with that. I could go without sex forever and it wouldn't make a difference. If I wanted an orgasm, that's what porn was for. My husband was my best friend, my provider, my protector, and seriously handsome, and that was more than enough for me.
> 
> And then a few weeks ago, he climaxed during sex with me for the very first time. And my whole world has flipped upside down. I don't want porn anymore. I want him. Not in a cuddly, romantic, or protective way. This new desire is carnal in a way I haven't felt in a long time, if ever. Forgive me for being graphic, but I want him deep inside me flower over and over and over until I melt and burn with the white-hot intensity of a supernova. I can climax merely picturing his manhood for long enough. Without even touching myself. AND I HATE IT. This bears an ill wind, I am sure of it.
> 
> ...


How about you just relax and enjoy it. You want your husband, that's great! Part of the fun is in the wanting. Keep it up and hopefully he will get there with you. You two always seem to progress, maybe not as quickly as you would like but you keep moving forward. So stop assuming the worst and enjoy the ride.

By the way how did you bypass SI's ban on you that you always talk about? Did you just make a new account?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You're overthinking this.

He's a dude and you're a chick. All you have to do for him to orgasm is not not say no and not run away.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

@sokillme Yep. I made a new account with a new email address. Turns out they don't track IP addresses, so you can use a throwaway Gmail account to just make a new name. I did get banned again soon after because my backstory was exactly the same and they put two and two together. They thought that lying to _them_ about a bloody internet account that my husband knows about is "Wayward Behavior" that I "need to discuss with my IC." What an absolute farce!! How entitled can these people possibly be?


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## Perry Mason (Jun 24, 2018)

I think this is one case where adult consensual circumcision is probably the answer. The phimosis is definitely causing a sexual problem and a circumcision operation surely is well worth the investment. At least it would be his choice if he does it, not like all those new born babies who have it done to them without their consent. Some doctors claim it makes no difference to the amount of pleasure a man has. Good luck.


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## luipere (Jun 24, 2018)

I think that having sex 20 times in six years is very little, to have a healthy sex life a correct number would be at least 3 times a week.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> @*sokillme* Yep. I made a new account with a new email address. Turns out they don't track IP addresses, so you can use a throwaway Gmail account to just make a new name. I did get banned again soon after because my backstory was exactly the same and they put two and two together. They thought that lying to _them_ about a bloody internet account that my husband knows about is "Wayward Behavior" that I "need to discuss with my IC." What an absolute farce!! How entitled can these people possibly be?


LOL.

Those sad sacks and their unbelievably CLICHE constant 'advice' to get therapy. SO overdone.

Got a hangnail? You need therapy!
Trouble getting up in the morning? You need therapy!
Tired of waiting in line at the grocery store? You need therapy!

Idiots.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

I think you have hit on the problem and its not you. Phimosis requires medical advice and intervention. This is a very real issue with real solutions. Take the focus off of you and help your husband. Although you may not choose this, it appears that circumcision CAN be a long term solution. Investigate. Help him.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

I am sure I have had sex with my husband 20 times in a week at some point. You need to both go for therapy together and allow them to look at all the issues that affect you. You seem to be in love and you communicate well so it should be easy to discuss options. Good luck.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Folks...her hubby has already had the procedure. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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