# Trying to hold it together with WW



## WasDecimated

This is my first time posting. I have been reading for the last couple of months. Please excuse the length of this post. I sincerely do apologize but I wanted to provide as much detail as possible in order to receive constructive advice.

My wife and I have been married for 14 years. We have 3 children. I am a young and active 47 and she is 39. I always thought we had a great life and marriage. We seemed to be totally in love always talked about how fortunate we were to have each other. Our relationship has always been the envy of our friends and the pride of our families. I am fortunate to have a good, solid income, nice home and wonderful children. I am one of those husbands that always considerd my family to be the most important part of his life. I am home every night by 6:00 pm. I am involved with our home life and don’t “hang out with the guys”. 

My wife had become slightly selfish but I was ok with that because we had a good marriage and I loved her. When we first met and were married our relationship was close to 50/50 in terms of commitment, emotional energy, communication, sacrifice, and even household chores. But over the years the ratio had gradually changed. I had become more of a giver and her more the taker. I gave her new cars every year. I paid her credit card debts. She loves shopping…clothes, shoes etc. She always looks stunning and I was ok paying for that. I wanted her to be happy and have all the things she didn’t have growing up. Her income was hers but my income paid for everything else. In retrospect I was the enabler for her taker by spoiling her and allowing her inner princess to take over. I was the attentive, loving husband and she was the center of my universe. 

This is her first marriage and my second. My first marriage ended after 2 years because I discovered my XW had cheated. I divorced her immediately (no children) and it was over. She regretted her affair and wanted to R but I declined and moved on. It was a very difficult time for me. I took many years to learn to trust again but I did and 5 years later I met and married my current wife. 

About 2 years ago I started to have a feeling something was wrong in my current marriage (the same gut feelings that lead to the discovery of cheating in my first marriage) My wife seemed slightly disconnected. I discussed these feelings with my her many times. She denied anything was wrong her or us and that we were fine. I couldn’t shake those feeling so I started looking deeper.

I discovered in our cell phone records that she had been texting and calling some guy for 3 months…460 texts and about 30 phone calls back and forth between June and August. He turned out to be a facebook friend from her Jr. high school days. I joined facebook and was able to see some of their posts and comments to each other that seemed flirty. I confronted her and told her to stop all contact and delete him as a facebook friend or I would divorce her. She complied and ended contact with him. I even called him and told him to stay away from her. She told me that they were just friends and she got carried away and that she was sorry. She said he was married with 2 kids; they lived separate lives and were only together for their kids. She admitted that they had met for coffee and he was at her class reunion. I could not attend with her because I was at Boy Scout camp that weekend with one of our sons.

We reconciled and were fine after that until about July of last year. I started to get those gut feelings again. Again I expressed my concern to her. She again assured me that we were good. Our sex life seemed to be slipping to about once a week….not from lack of trying on my part. I began digging again….nothing. She now had a new phone...a smart phone with complete internet access. This should have been a big red flag. 

As the year went on she seemed to become more disconnected from me and our children. I found I was doing more and more around the house and with the kids as well as working 50 hours a week. Because of my income she has the luxury of only working 3 days a week…about 15 hours total. I tried to reason that she maybe going through a funk of some sort. She had lost both of her parents a few years ago…4 months apart and her grandfather a couple years before that. She was now 39 years old…possible MLC. Her group of girl friends that she would go out with about once a month seemed to be breaking up. She was also unhappy with her job. She had stopped working out at the health club and was complaining that she was gaining weight….I thought she looked great.

In December 2010 she spoke the words that no husband ever wants to hear…”I’m not happy” She said she was dealing with stuff in her mind. She mentioned her parents and the fact that they died young…(50’s) She said she was thinking about mortality. She also said she didn’t know how she felt about me anymore. I was stunned to say the least. I didn’t expect this. After this point our sex life stopped. She noticeably pulled away from me emotionally and physically and little eye contact. During this time she stopped going to church with us as well.

I became hyper sensitive to everything at this point. I carefully listened to every word she said….which wasn’t much. She was never one to be open with her deep thoughts and expressing emotions….she internalizes. She did not give me much to go on. I began to investigate and track her miles as well as noting everywhere she went. I became convinced there was something more going on. 

In early January I found out she was facebook friends with him again. He had blocked me so I could see the friendship. I confronted her and she said that it was no big deal and they didn’t communicate much…not like before. She also reiterated to me that she was not happy again and that he was not a factor. 

In mid January I then installed a GPS tracker in the car she drives. I felt like scum for having to do it but I needed answers that she was not giving me. I began to find inconsistencies immediately….but nothing conclusive. I would not bring them up yet. I didn’t want to tip my hand. 

I was now convinced she was involved with him again. While she was sleeping I got into her phone and found several messages in her sent file that she forgot to delete. They were from October. They seemed to be passionate in nature but incomplete…just responses. They had terms of endearments for each other like gorgeous and beautiful. She was signing with XOXOXO. She was upset that I went into her phone. I left the house for the day to think about everything. She stayed in bed all day. 

When I came home I sat her down to talk about everything. She said they were old messages. She said that he is just a good friend and he was nice to talk to and funny. She said they had met for coffee a couple of times and messaged a couple times a week. I was getting trickle truth from her
I gave her an ultimatum. Dump this guy for good or I will file for divorce. She said she would but needed time. She promised she would not drag it out for weeks. It was now late January.

Over the next few weeks she dragged her feet. She would get irritated whenever I would try to talk to her about it and shut down. I would be talking to myself with no answers from her. When she did answer it would usually be one word answers with a delayed response. When this happens she looks as if she was going into a trance and will stare at the floor. At times she would start shaking. She kept saying she needed time to do this. I could tell she was fence-sitting and ambivalent. 

When she did talk she seemed to only remember the low points in our marriage…there were not many and they were minor and none of the great times. She had rewritten our marriage history in her mind and would tend to demonize me at times and accuse me of being controlling and emotionally unavailable when in actuality, the opposite was true. I would point out some of the errors and she would look confused and not have a response. During these times I was always calm and composed with her. I was not begging or pleading but I was trying ask her questions and occasionally point out that in our relationship was basically sound and salvageable. She remained distant…not much conversation or eye contact.

The GPS data had showed me that she had been meeting him at least a couple times a week which was easy because my wife only worked 3 days a week…about 5 hours a day. He is self employed, if that is what you call it, and works out of his family house….about 5 miles away. They would meet at the grocery store, have lunches together, in coffee shops, meeting and parking in far corners of parking lots for short amounts of time, going for drives. I found out later that they had met for dinner and drinks at least once. She had lied and told me she was meeting a girl friend. 

The GPS also showed that they had met in a hotel one afternoon. This was the point that I confronted her with all of the GPS evidence. She broke down and cried and swore that nothing physical ever happened and that they had kissed once. In the hotel room they were only talking and she was crying the whole time because she had to make a choice. She said she needed to talk to him and she knew she would be crying and that’s why they got a hotel room. At this point she said that it was pretty much over with him. I asked her if she loved him, she said no.

In late February, I made an appointment with a attorney and told her if she didn’t say good bye to him forever…DNC, Fully commit to rebuilding our marriage, seek help in IC to start with, and hand over all passwords for her laptop and phone by the time of the appointment, 3:00 pm, I was filling for D. 

On the day of the appointment she sent me a text at 1:30 saying that she didn’t know if I really had an appointment but she didn’t want me to go. I sent back “I didn’t want to go either but I can not live like this anymore”. At 2:58 pm she sent “I know, I understand…I’m sorry”. To me this meant go head and file. I went to the appointment but it was a first consultation. I did not tell her that.

When I got home she wanted to know what happened. I told her I went to the lawyers office. She said “why didn’t you call me”. I said you gave me your answer in your last text and it wasn’t the one I needed to stop me. She said that wasn’t what she meant and that she ended it with him that afternoon and sent him a DNC note, deleted him from facebook, wanted to commit to our marriage and wanted to see a therapist. She was still reluctant to hand over passwords.

That night she initiated sex with me. I was very passionate and unexpected. This would be the last time we had sex. She seemed to be a lot better in the following days… better eye contact, more talkative, great hugs and kisses before and after work. She was saying I love you again. From there it has been up and down.

She seems to have good days and bad days in terms of her being distant. Some days she seems deep in the fog….staring into space and won’t show much affection. She is still not able to open up and discuss the affair and why she got involved with him. This is the most frustrating part of this R, if that is what you call it. When I try to talk to her about it she gets irritated and defensive and shuts down. She shows no patience or compassion for me. At one point she said “it is all up here in my head and that is where it is staying” She also said she may tell a therapist but not me. I asked her why, are you afraid you will hurt me? She said “maybe…I don’t know”. I said “It can’t possibly be worse that I have already imagined.

She claims she has not had contact with him. I cannot be sure. He is not on her facebook but that means nothing. Some of their communicating was done with instant messenger from her cell phone. She has yet to schedule an appointment with a therapist….doesn’t trust them. She says she is working on our marriage but has yet to do anything. She is still acting stubborn and not always totally transparent with her whereabouts during the day but she is getting better. Lately, she has been sending me texts letting me know where she is going although she tends to leave things out occasionally. She wants the GPS off of her car. She still refuses to discuss the affair or her feelings and shuts down when I try. She still has not given me her computer password but her phone is unlocked now although it is never more that a couple feet away from her at all times. The only difference in her is she seems to be more talkative about everyday stuff at home and we have better eye contact. Her “I love you’s” and hugs are more frequent. She still has no interest in sex. She say’s she is not thinking about that right now.

I am concerned that she does not seem to show any remorse for her actions. She has not apologized for the pain she has put me through …not even a simple “I’m sorry” She shows no patience or compassion for me…no empathy when I try to discuss the affair or ask her questions. This is not the woman I fell in love with or married…more like her evil twin. I feel I am doing most of the work towards getting past this.

I am trying to take it one day at a time. I try to reassure her that I am here for her if she makes an effort but her affair is absolutely unacceptable. At the same time I am doing a soft 180…working on myself. I have started to go out with friends again and treat myself after years of sacrifice. Strange thing, she has been snooping through my stuff and cell phone. She seemed to be really jealous when an old work friend (attractive younger woman) looked me up on facebook and sent me some messages that were flirty in nature.

This is the most painful experience I have ever been through. There are days that I feel like just filing D and walking away. I do think that I owe it to my kids and our families to exhaust every last option before doing so. If I decide to D her I need to make sure I can walk away with no guilt or regrets. I couldn’t live with that.

I don’t want to end what was, for the most part, a good marriage. I don’t want to lose her or destroy our family...our children would be devastated. I am committed to rebuilding our marriage but at this point I am doing all of the work, feeling all of the pain and making all of the sacrifices. 

I welcome any comments, thoughts or observations you may have relating to my dilemma or your personal experiences.

Some questions I have are…

Is she in this emotional affair fog that I have read about?
Should I be more patient?
How long can I expect it to last? And what should I do…not do?
Is the fact that she seems to be depressed a good sign…could it mean that there is still no contact?


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## the guy

I wish I had some great advice, but I do have some perspective. See my cheating wife gave entire life back to me. In the last 14 months there has never even been a remote suspicion that she contacted OM and has been an open book...even with details of the affairs.
Since your wife has done the oppisit of what mine wife did I'm not sure i can help, but you can take my imput for whats its worth.

I do have to believe she is deep in the fog and there were or are some serious emotions that she had for OM. Thats the tough part, for my wife it was just sex it was easy for my W to break free.

As they say breaking up is hard to do. If your W can own her actions and take the hard path in taking responsiblity for her affair you have a chance. So good luck in getting that far in the healing process.

I believe she has fallen in love and the degree of emotion she had for OM is equal to the amount of time it will take her to get over him. I quess for my deal I can say I'm lucky in my W affairs were just sex with little emotion.

As far as depression goes, no matter what the reason... it is a unhealth emotion and she needs to get help in finding a healthy and happy life in the choices she committed to 14 years ago. Those choices were life long commitments and now she is struggling....why? There is a reason there are shrinks. thats so people can have good mental health. She is missing out on good mental health by not going to the doctor.

So here lies patience, I'm not much on patience when there is help out there and folks don't take advandage of get help. So don't let her sit on the fence, she can fix the problems in her mind and body there is help so why wait. To me thats like waiting for the check engine light to go off, it never will no matter how patient you are. 

The messed up thing is you cant make people go get help, they have to want it or hit rock bottom for it to sink in that there is a problem.

You seem to do the PI work pretty good, for now she may be in NC mode but it won't last as you well know. It is a matter of time before the addiction takes over. In my case my wife was happy I pulled her out of her addiction. See there was a health emotion of having her marriage back. In your case its concerning that she isn't happy about the fact that you are willing to take her back.

Keep a close eye on her ...still more then ever. You have not seen any reconnection from her. she may need to hit rock bottom with a divorce, or at least the perseption that the divorce is a real possiblity, and you are confident that you and your kids will get through this with or with out her. She has to believe that if she doesn't straighten out her act and get some help, that you are not afriad to take the step. So get her unconfussed and show her a confident man that knows exactly what he wants and what he will tolorate


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## jnj express

You need to make her do the heavy lifting in re: your R-----You don't really know the extent of her A, as to whether it went physical, as to what happened in his car, in the hotel, or anywhere else for that matter---her texting you from somewhere, to check in---means nothing,---- in that he could actually have been right there with her, as she is texting you

Did you ever read her NC letter, or whatever it was---did you ever see it sent?????

In other words WHAT DO YOUR REALLY KNOW ABOUT WHAT WENT ON TWEEN THE TWO THEM, and is it still going on---you don't REALLY know do you?????

The only time you have ever gotten a solid response from her, was when you actually went to the atty.

For your own healing to begin---you need her to tell you everything from beginning to end---down to the tiniest detail---otherwise your imagination continues to run wild, and you cannot heal

You have to make her do the work, to R---you didn't cheat, you should not be doing the heavy lifting

Cut off her credit cards, put all your money in your name in the bank---take away her car, that you paid for---move her to a room in your house, where she can sleep, dump all her clothes and sundries in there with her

MAKE HER SEE WHAT LIFE AS A DIVORCED SINGLE, ON HER OWN WILL BE LIKE

Also have her take a poly---asking her the questions you really want answered

She caved last time you took a hard stance---she will cave again---she doesn't wanna be out there on her own---she likes the lifestyle you provide her---well its time she earned and appreciated it---its time she was accountable for her cheating


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## WasDecimated

Thank you for your responses and observations. 

Yesterday she went to church with us, out for breakfast after and had spent a good day together at home. She seemed happy. We talked, joked around and there was good eye contact as well. 

Later she was on facebook and I asked her to see her inbox. She said no. She said "there is nothing in there" Her response was rather light hearted almost like she doesn't understand why I don't trust her. It seems like she is in denial about anything that may have happened as not being that bad or she has compartmentalized it to a point where it doesn't register in her conscious mind. 

The kids were getting hungry so I asked her what was for dinner. She said we didn't have anything and she would be grocery shopping the next day. I ended up going to the store and buying food to cook for dinner and cooking it while she lay on the couch all afternoon watching TV and surfing the web. I even ended up doing 3 loads of laundry so the kids and I would have clean clothes and clean towels for showers in the morning. In the past I never had a problem helping around the house but under these circumstances….I do. 

She still claims no contact but I have no way to prove it.
I have decided to set a date in the near future to file for "D" if things don't change drastically. I will not tell her…I will just do it. I will also have her served at work to strengthen the shock effect. I think she knows that if I "D" her she will be financially set and I will be living in a cardboard box because of our income difference…spousal support and child support. I also believe she doesn't think I would ever do it and she is playing me and using me for a door mat. Weather their relationship was ever physical is immaterial at this point. Actually, I wish it was just physical. That would be easier to deal with then this emotional mess. If she is not in contact with OM (he is married too) than I would be willing to be more patient but I am getting sick of doing all the work on us and around the house.

I just pray that I have the courage and strength when that day comes to go through with it.


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## Eli-Zor

A few guidelines.

Do not believe her, the affair may have gone underground. 

Load a keylogger on the PC. 

Buy the books "Surviving and Affair" and "his need her needs" by by Harley. Both of you should read these and your wife should start putting in to place extraordinary precautions to ensure she is does not enter into an affair again.

If she choose not to do this or give you complete openness to everything then I would seriously question your future with her.



> If she is not in contact with OM (he is married too) than I would be willing to be more patient


tell his wife of the affair as well as her parents and siblings. This is but one of the steps to help your marriage survive.


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## WasDecimated

Eli-Zor said:


> A few guidelines.
> 
> Do not believe her, the affair may have gone underground.
> 
> Load a keylogger on the PC.
> 
> Buy the books "Surviving and Affair" and "his need her needs" by by Harley. Both of you should read these and your wife should start putting in to place extraordinary precautions to ensure she is does not enter into an affair again.
> 
> If she choose not to do this or give you complete openness to everything then I would seriously question your future with her.
> 
> 
> 
> tell his wife of the affair as well as her parents and siblings. This is but one of the steps to help your marriage survive.


Her computer is still locked but she unlocked her phone.

I have read both books. She seems to have no interest in reading them. 

I have told her sister and grandmother. She refuses to talk to her sister now. He sister did send a message to OM calling him out on what he is doing and called him a piece of s##t. He then forwarded it to my wife and now she is mad at her sister saying "it's my life and none of her business" 

The only reason I have not told his wife is because she claims that they have lived separate lives for years and they were only together for their children. This has been confined by one of her friends as well. I felt that if I forced a "D" in his marriage then it would be easier for them to be together.


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## ahhhmaaaan!

Dude, you deserve better. I know your not going to want to hear this, but "get out." She doesn't seem to want to mend this. She even distanced herself from her family over this. Again, you deserve better.


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## Amplexor

She is still in the fog. She is resenting you for making her end the relationship. She has not and may not apologize. All are normal until she gets him completely out of her mind ant that will take time. Unfortunately with her history you will have to continue the surveillance of her for some time. If she can continue NC then eventually the fog will lift and the resentment will fade. As for the apology, if it was truly only an EA (and I don't buy the hotel story) she may never come to the conclusion that she did anything wrong. You are doing the right things and some of the things she is doing are small steps toward reconciliation. You are where I was after discovery of my wife's EA several years ago and while the reconciliation process took a couple of years, it was well worth the effort and pain we both suffered. Continue on your path and don't waiver. Show her you are willing to go the distance if she honors your boundaries in regards to him. But if not, you are ready and willing to meet with the lawyer again. Hold tight for now and press forward.


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## Again71

Decimated-
You sound like a wonderful man that is completely committed to his wife and children, have provided a very secure financial environment and have gone way above and beyond. I am sorry that you have had to go through what you have with a woman that obviously doesn't appreciate you or what you have provided her. She is a princess and wants MORE and unfortunately, this OM has promised her the MORE.

IMO as much as it will hurt, you need to keep your appt with the atty and move forward. She hasn't been transparent with you. Being on the outside looking in, it doesn't sound like she has ended it.

Of course she will tell you that the OM is separated, she doesn't want you to contact the wife. I would still do that though.

I wish you the best. You deserve someone that will respect you and your efforts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diesel73

Sounds like you have done all that you can - also sounds like she may be suffering from depression or something - I also do loads round the house and it amazes me how this can be overlooked in a relationship from the womans point of view. I think sometimes being too helpful isn’t always helpful! Good luck maybe a shock to her system will be the one thing that snaps her out of what looks like complacency.


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## Shooboomafoo

Mannn, youre situation sounds exactly like mine. No remorse, but rather offense at any attempt to get them to at least acknowledge that they seriously screwed up. I was blamed for invading her privacy on her phone, when all it was was secrets being kept. This was months ago, and the cell phone is still locked up, and even further, it was her original cell phone plan that I was added to, and she seperated them so that I can no longer see what her data usage is and who is in contact with whom. Frigging facebook is like a bank with all of its money out on the counters and nobody working there. The "honor" system is out the window. Every program on t.v. glorifies infidelity and thats all they cling to, some fantasy becuase they are afraid to put their big girl panties on. So, I feel for you in the "no remorse" department. I am living day to day like you taking crumbs in lieu of cake, and watching my divorced friends find new people who seem to really treat them right and with love. Its only made me want someone else all the more.


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## WasDecimated

Some great thoughts…thank you folks.

"Amplexor" and "the guy" I agree with you. I think she is in the fog. I think she has some strong emotional feelings for this guy. I don't think she is capable of remorse or apologies as of yet. I agree with you about the resentment she probably has for me at this time. Strangely enough, she seems to be happy until I bring up the affair to talk about or discuss. That is when her mood drops sharply…it's like flipping a switch. She may be in denial that it happened or doesn't think she did anything wrong, she has compartmentalized the whole thing and she is trying to forget it. 

Like her, I have good days and bad days. A few days ago I came home from work and didn't feel like hugging or kissing her. I said hi, was cordial and polite but avoided any contact. Later she asked me what was wrong and wanted to know if I was mad at her for something ??? It was like she forgot about the whole situation! I said "sweetheart, I've been mad at you for 3 months." She looked confused.

Some of you may disagree but I still think it was just an EA. In my story I may have been confusing about the one kiss that she admitted to. That did not happen in the hotel room. She says there was no contact in the hotel room and that she was crying the whole time and he was listening. She knew that I was hot on her trail and had figured out what was going on. She said she knew she had to make a choice and needed to talk to him to find out where he stood. She said she knew she would be crying and that she didn't want to be out in public. She claims the one and only kiss they had happened some other time during their relationship…don't know the details on that one yet. The vast majority of their communication took place through facebook in-boxing and some instant messaging. 

Incidentally, the vast majority of the time they did spent together was in public or where other people were around. I have had a GPS tracker on her car since January and it confirms this.

My wife was never what you call "easy"….of course people can change. We were passionately in love back when we were dating and it still took quite a while to get her clothes off.

A few weeks ago I started to get frustrated about the situation and began to press her to talk about it. I told her I need her to open up and start talking about what happened. She became irritated and said "if you are going to push me to talk before I'm ready then go ahead and file".

"Amplexor" I would like to hear more about your experience and approach. How long did it take her to come out of the fog? It does sound similar to mine as does your approach. It sounds like you have had a great success with your marriage. There are some folks that think I should file "D" and move on. Since "D" is not my ultimate goal I want to save it to use as a last resort. Also, I know how stubborn my wife is and if I surprise her with "D" papers she may just say "fine…bye"


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## Amplexor

Decimated said:


> "Amplexor" I would like to hear more about your experience and approach. How long did it take her to come out of the fog? It does sound similar to mine as does your approach. It sounds like you have had a great success with your marriage. There are some folks that think I should file "D" and move on. Since "D" is not my ultimate goal I want to save it to use as a last resort. Also, I know how stubborn my wife is and if I surprise her with "D" papers she may just say "fine…bye"


Once contact was finally broken I would say about 3 or 4 months for the fog to lift. And once the EA ended, we had already fixed most of the issues in the marriage. Communication, empathy, quality time.... Not understanding what an EA was, I let the friendship go on for several months before recognizing it as something else. As you will see in the link she stubbed her toe a couple of times. All in all the process took 3 years but that awful emotional roller coaster was only a small part of it. Even though the marriage was pretty broken at several levels we maintained a great friendship and had a lot of fun. While three years seems a lot, I always kept it in perspective. The marriage had been on a downward slide for about 7 - 8 years before D-Day. I accepted my roll in that slide as the major contributor to what was left of the marriage.

I will disagree with the towel tossers on this thread. You have a difficult situation but it is recoverable. You have a long relationship with your wife and there are kids that will be greatly impacted by the outcome. Give it everything you've got and don't leave anything in the tank.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation-stories/1383-when-enough-enough.html


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## Jellybeans

Decimated said:


> She is still acting stubborn and not always totally transparent with her whereabouts during the day but she is getting better. She wants the GPS off of her car. She still refuses to discuss the affair or her feelings and shuts down when I try. She still has not given me her computer password but her phone is unlocked now although it is never more that a couple feet away from her at all times.
> 
> *I am concerned that she does not seem to show any remorse for her actions. She has not apologized for the pain she has put me through …not even a simple “I’m sorry” She shows no patience or compassion for me…no empathy when I try to discuss the affair or ask her questions*


This is a MAJOR problem. 

If she doesn't own it or empathize with you, you have a big big issue on your hand. Don't kid yourself thinking it was only an EA if she was meeting him at hotel rooms. Her excuse of her only meeting him at a hotel cause she knew she'd cry is probably one of the worst ones I've ever heard.

She's called your bluff several times now. At this point she knows she can continue doing what she does and it's not likely you will end things. So my advice to you is take a hard stance and keep it.

Oh and get tested for STDs.

Is OM married? TELL HIS WIFE TODAY.


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## JazzTango2Step

Lay down the law. Draw a line.

You will need all passwords to YOUR computer that YOU gave to her. You will need YOUR phone records to the phone YOU gave her. 

If she insists on keeping herself pampered, she does it with her own money. If she insists on driving places, she puts her own gas in the car.

It looks as though she has no interest in stopping what she has started, so you have to either stop it for her by laying down LAW, or you have to stop it for you by leaving her.

Somewhere or another, she MUST take you seriously. You've spoiled her out of love but spoiled children never take threats seriously. Its about time you get to it and put your foot down.


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## alphaomega

Shooboomafoo said:


> Mannn, youre situation sounds exactly like mine. No remorse, but rather offense at any attempt to get them to at least acknowledge that they seriously screwed up. I was blamed for invading her privacy on her phone, when all it was was secrets being kept. This was months ago, and the cell phone is still locked up, and even further, it was her original cell phone plan that I was added to, and she seperated them so that I can no longer see what her data usage is and who is in contact with whom. Frigging facebook is like a bank with all of its money out on the counters and nobody working there. The "honor" system is out the window. Every program on t.v. glorifies infidelity and thats all they cling to, some fantasy becuase they are afraid to put their big girl panties on. So, I feel for you in the "no remorse" department. I am living day to day like you taking crumbs in lieu of cake, and watching my divorced friends find new people who seem to really treat them right and with love. Its only made me want someone else all the more.


Shooboo,
Not to hijack the thread, but why are you still taking this sh!t, after months? Time to man up, my friend!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WasDecimated

Thanks again for the feedback.

I have kept a detailed calendar ever since I started to believe there was something was going on with my wife. Looking through it there are incidents that may be worth evaluating.

About a month and a half ago my wife informed me that she was going out to celebrate one of her girlfriend's birthday at a local bar. Her girlfriend also went to school with my wife's OM and knows him. I stayed home with the kids. I waited until the kids were asleep, about 11:30, and I decided to go up the bar to check on the situation. When I arrived I found the group having drinks and celebrating and the OM was with them. My wife and him were sitting next to each other in the group with their backs were to me. I walked up behind them and stood behind her. It took everything I had to keep from beating him to a pulp. Her girlfriend yelled out my name and waved to me. My wife was looking down and playing with her phone. When she heard my name she froze, so did the OM and the smile disappeared from his face and he looked down to. I yelled at her a bunch of stuff including "don't bother coming home…you don't live there anymore…we're done". I then got in his face and told him in front of everyone what a lying, cheating, piece of s**t home wrecker he was and asked him if his family and wife knew where he was and what he was trying to do. I then left and went home. My wife instantly dropped everything and chased me home. Once there she said "it's not what you think and that it is over with him….he was just there because of the birthday party.
This, as far as I know, was the last time they were together. This was also the only time I caught them together. I made the appointment for the following next week with the lawyer and that is when she sent the DNC message and committed to our marriage. I don't know of any further contact since that date.

The fact that she left him there at the bar and chased me home must mean something…I hope.

This is slightly off the subject but…..
You know it's funny but I expected more out of this guy. He didn't stand up to me. He is a little younger than me and not even that good looking. He was well on his way to being bald and kind of skinny looking. His clothes were shabby. 

I guess seeing him made me feel better about myself. Through this whole thing my self esteem has suffered a major blow. I have always exercised with an emphasis on weight training. It has always been part of my life style. I have never let myself go physically. I built a complete home gym in the basement and use it at least 4 times a week. 

I need to say something to make me feel better about my self. I apologize in advance. 
I am 6 ft tall, 180 lbs. I am fortunately still have a full head of hair, although it is starting to grey. I have a 46 in chest and have a 31 in waist…a lean bodybuilder physique. I am 47 years old and have washboard abs. My body fat has dropped even more because of all the stress over the last few months but continue to eat right and exercise hard. As a result, I look even better that I did before this happened. I could walk out on South Beach and not have a thing to be ashamed of even next to a 25 year old. Oddly enough, my wife walked in on me changing last week and avoided looking at me completely.

I have never been egocentric or a show off about my physical condition. I did it for me and know one else. I have never had a problem with women noticing me but I have never even thought of following through with something like that. I am a Christian and I could never live with myself. The guilt would be too much. Back in my single days (25 years ago) I cheated on a girl that I was dating. I felt so guilty at the time I realized that I was just not the philandering type.

Sorry for that….I feel better…I think.


----------



## the guy

I think you are both on the right track. The only thing I would suggest that when you ask to look at her cell or computer and she refusses, simply let her know that you donot want a debat and will drop the the issue, but you do need to let her know fow you feel.

At this point it is up to her to either let you finish or change the subject. 

Hopefully she lets you finish and then make a quick statment and then let it go.

I would hope that once you give her the reason on why it is important for you to see and for her to be more forthcome, she will have some understanding.

Most likely she will get irritated, and you can expect that but calmly let her know that her remarks are not helping you heal. and try again another day.

You really need her to be open and forthcoming, some how and some way you need to get that through and with time she will understand your need and meet that need.

My point is getting to a point is not getting into her stuff but just talking about it with out her blowing up.


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## JazzTango2Step

Most people who fall victim to cheating spouces tend to think that the OW or OM must be stunning, brave, spectacular and daring. But this is rarely the case. If the victimized spouce ever sees the OW/OM, they find that they are normal human beings and most of the time...not really all that good looking. They have issues just like normal people, are not super models, and would probably run from instead of towards a fray if something were to happen.

You NEED to feel good about yourself. So in a way, seeing the OM was good for you to do. Now you know who you are compared to him. You're hansome and fit. Your wife has a hard time looking at you because her guilt consumes her. The OM never challenged you when you yelled at him, because he knew his presence there wasn't as innocent as going to a birthday party. He was in the wrong.

You need to bring yourself up and realize that you are a hansome man and she is damn lucky to have your ring around her finger. There is nothing in wrong with saying "I'm one hot fool!" in this situation. You NEED to and I am very happy to hear that you CAN and DO feel this way about yourself even with whats going on.

Your wife is not innocent. She can say "I'm sorry" all day long, but I don't think any one of those appologies would have any weight to it.


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## WasDecimated

Thanks JazzTango2Step. I would be happy if she could say "I'm sorry" once. She can't seem to do it. She even claims that she apologized already…nonsense.

Last night after the kids were in bed I tried to talk to her one last time about why she won't show me her email inbox the other night. She immediately got defensive and said "what for…there is nothing in there" Than she fired back a question to me wanting to know how come my personal bank account statements don't come in the mail anymore. I told her that it is all on line now…no need to waste paper. Indecently, her statements for her personal account are on line only as well…double standard. Then she wanted to know if I paid a monthly fee for the GPS tracker that I used to find out about her affair with. I responded no and asked "why are you turning this conversation around on me?" She got a furious look on her face but did not respond. 

I calmly made a second request…show me your email inbox. I don't want to read all of your messages I just want to see who they are from. She said no. "There is nothing in there" and to stop pressing her on that. She said that she will not show me her email or exchange passwords either. I said "if there is nothing in there than why won't you show me?" she said "I don't want to, I need some sort of privacy" 

Last week I had emailed her 3 different articles about regaining trust in marriages after infidelity. I asked her if she even bothered to read them…she said no.

I then asked her to talk to me about the affair and why it happened. She said "I'm not talking about it" I explained that I needed to begin to understand how and why it happened. I told her that I wanted to forgive her but I needed to trust her first. Before I can trust her I need to know what happened and why. 

I told her that our marriage will have no chance of surviving if she doesn’t become open, honest, and transparent with me. I also explained that her unwillingness to talk about the affair is keeping me in constant emotional pain and turmoil and allows my imagination to run wild and assume a lot of things that may not have actually happened. I told her that anything she could possibly say couldn't be worse that I have already imagined. I explained that I would just listen. I would not judge her or get upset. I even told her anything she say would not drive me away that I am committed to working on rebuilding our marriage. She said again "I'm not talking about it...at least right now" She also said "as far as I'm concerned it is in the past."

I told her that it is not in the past for me because I don't know much about it.

I summarized our conversation to her by saying:
You won't show me your email inboxes.
You won't exchange passwords.
You won't talk about the affair.
What do you expect me to do?

No response from her. 

I then told her that I was sick of being her doormat and money tree. I said I needed to feel respected, loved, valued, desired, and appreciated in this marriage. I then told her that I don't feel any of these things in our marriage. 


Keep in mind. Through 95% of the conversation she was typing and looking at her laptop and I did 99% of the talking.

After last night I am left with little hope for us.


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## Jellybeans

Decimated said:


> Thanks JazzTango2Step. I would be happy if she could say "I'm sorry" once. She can't seem to do it. She even claims that she apologized already…nonsense..


She doesn't own what she did yet and she doesn't see it as wrong. Huge huge problem.



Decimated said:


> Last night after the kids were in bed I tried to talk to her one last time about why she won't show me her email inbox the other night. She immediately got defensive and said "what for…there is nothing in there" Than she fired back a question to me wanting to know how come my personal bank account statements don't come in the mail anymore. ..


Blame-shifting. From the course of Cheaters 101.



Decimated said:


> . Then she wanted to know if I paid a monthly fee for the GPS tracker that I used to find out about her affair with. I responded no and asked "why are you turning this conversation around on me?" She got a furious look on her face but did not respond. ..


You didn't have to respond at all and don't ever reveal to her how you found out about the affair. Cause now she can/will cover it up better. She won't be transparent with you, you don't have ot tell her how you know of the affair.



Decimated said:


> .I calmly made a second request…show me your email inbox. I don't want to read all of your messages I just want to see who they are from. She said no. "There is nothing in there" and to stop pressing her on that. She said that she will not show me her email or exchange passwords either. I said "if there is nothing in there than why won't you show me?" she said "I don't want to, I need some sort of privacy" ..


Another huge red flag. My bet is the affair is still happening.



Decimated said:


> .Last week I had emailed her 3 different articles about regaining trust in marriages after infidelity. I asked her if she even bothered to read them…she said no...


Stop doing this. She knows her affair is wrong. You need to expose the affai rand you need to tell her and mean it TODAY that you will NOT live in an open marriage or else she will face serious hard consequences.



Decimated said:


> .I then asked her to talk to me about the affair and why it happened. She said "I'm not talking about it" I explained that I needed to begin to understand how and why it happened. I told her that I wanted to forgive her but I needed to trust her first. Before I can trust her I need to know what happened and why.
> 
> I told her that our marriage will have no chance of surviving if she doesn’t become open, honest, and transparent with me. I also explained that her unwillingness to talk about the affair is keeping me in constant emotional pain and turmoil and allows my imagination to run wild and assume a lot of things that may not have actually happened. I told her that it is not in the past for me because I don't know much about it.
> 
> I summarized our conversation to her by saying:
> You won't show me your email inboxes.
> You won't exchange passwords.
> You won't talk about the affair.
> What do you expect me to do?
> 
> No response from her.
> 
> Keep in mind. Through 95% of the conversation she was typing and looking at her laptop and I did 99% of the talking..


It's make or break it time. Right now she does not think you will do ANYTHING in order to make her face the consequences of her actions. SHE is the one who should be groveling to you, not the other way around. You need to tell her straight up what you will and won't put up with and stick to it. The longer you let this go on like this, the worse for you. 

Get tested for STDs. Expose the affair.


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## Amplexor

I'll go against the the grain here on a few points but so be it.

Don't expect a formal apology, you may never get one. If it was an EA only (I still have my bias there) then she may not recognize it was wrong. At some point she will but at this point I wouldn't expect one. I never got one, never cared. But she did go through a period of contrition after she understood what the EA was.

Her resentfulness and anger are normal reaction although they may seem unfair as you are the one who was betrayed. This stage is usually short in term.

Don't send articles, links or book recommendations. She is not ready to move to the healing process. It'll just piss her off.

Trust and forgiveness. This is my own philosophy and many won't buy it but in my mind forgiveness comes before trust. It was not a formal discussion between me and my wife but within my own heart. In our case I understood the factors that let to the EA and my hand in making the marriage vulnerable to it. My wife didn't get a free pass but I accepted my culpability.

Transparency: I'll be in the minority of the forum here but I don't buy into it. Yes it is a red flag that she will not show you her emails. Three possible reasons. She does have a right to some privacy and is going to hold ground here. Two, the contact is still going on. Three, there is past correspondence in there she doesn't want you to see. Transparency is only good for the devices or email accounts you are aware of. Demanding transparency may only drive the EA/PA further under the radar. You'll need to make your own call here if you need her to earn your trust again through transparency or take a leap of faith. It was a tough call for me but I opted for faith and moved away from trying to snoop and monitor her actions. Also in my mind if she was going to continue to hide it sooner or later she was going to slip up. They always do!

Finally self reflection. You've stated to her what you need and want, but what does she? In my experience almost all affairs are a result of something that is perceived as missing for the wayward. I do not justify her actions but what do you think she is missing that drove her to this mutt in the first place? Understanding that is a large part of recovering the marriage.

You've got a tough situation here and it will take time to peal it all back. Truth may come bits at a time and somethings you may never know. Sorry. While my wife's affair was emotional only, when it was all said and done I had to let it go. I was smart enough to know I didn't have every detail in it but wise enough to realize there were somethings I shouldn't know. 

Good luck, keep us posted.


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## WasDecimated

Amplexor said:


> Her resentfulness and anger are normal reaction although they may seem unfair as you are the one who was betrayed. This stage is usually short in term.
> 
> *In your experience, how long was this phase?
> I don't know if it matters but I gave her the choice to stay or go. Why would she resent me for that? I did give the choice afterall. She decided to stay and commit to the marriage*
> 
> Finally self reflection. You've stated to her what you need and want, but what does she? In my experience almost all affairs are a result of something that is perceived as missing for the wayward. I do not justify her actions but what do you think she is missing that drove her to this mutt in the first place? Understanding that is a large part of recovering the marriage.
> 
> *I wish I knew what she needed. I have been asking her but she doesn't seem to know or doesn't have an answer.*


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## alphaomega

Decimated said:


> Thanks again for the feedback.
> 
> I need to say something to make me feel better about my self. I apologize in advance.
> I am 6 ft tall, 180 lbs. I am fortunately still have a full head of hair, although it is starting to grey. I have a 46 in chest and have a 31 in waist…a lean bodybuilder physique. I am 47 years old and have washboard abs. My body fat has dropped even more because of all the stress over the last few months but continue to eat right and exercise hard. As a result, I look even better that I did before this happened. I could walk out on South Beach and not have a thing to be ashamed of even next to a 25 year old. Oddly enough, my wife walked in on me changing last week and avoided looking at me completely.
> 
> I have never been egocentric or a show off about my physical condition. I did it for me and know one else. I have never had a problem with women noticing me but I have never even thought of following through with something like that. I am a Christian and I could never live with myself. The guilt would be too much. Back in my single days (25 years ago) I cheated on a girl that I was dating. I felt so guilty at the time I realized that I was just not the philandering type.
> 
> Sorry for that….I feel better…I think.


You the man! This is the sh$t im talkin 'bout! Nothing at all wrong with your attitude! Its totally healthy and you know who you are!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega

Decimated,
While your wife is still in the FOg, she wont apologize, wont admit anything, and give you all those excuses your getting now. This is the same as heroin withdrawl. You took away her fix, and she hates you for it. Depending upon the lenght of the affair, it could be a month, it could be six. Ntil then, expect more of the same behavior. The responses you want dont come fast, or easy. This is part of the irony of an affair, the loyal gets to suffer the brunt of this withdrawl, almost feeling like punishment, for something you didnt even do.

All i can say is hope you have patience, and lots of it. One moment, after the withdrawl is complete, will she start thinking staight enough to interact with you like an adult. If you want this to work, just be strong, because you will need to be if you plan on a chance or reconciliation.

But be vigilant. Like a junkie, she will try everything in her power to keep getting her fix, which explains the renewed meeting with the OM. You let our guard down, she saw the opportunity, so she went to get her fix.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor

Decimated said:


> In your experience, how long was this phase?



A couple of months or so. It ebbed slowly. Partially because she was recognizing the EA, and recovering from the hurt. I believe she went through her own period of self reflection at this time. Also as time went by she saw that I was still there, committed to the marriage and the changes I was willing to make. She began to rely on me.




Decimated said:


> I don't know if it matters but I gave her the choice to stay or go. Why would she resent me for that? I did give the choice after-all. She decided to stay and commit to the marriage


 It wasn't really a choice you offered. It was a lose lose ultimatum. Lose the EA or lose the family. Of course she's going to resent it, she's backed into a corner. Anyone would resent it. The important thing is to recognize that her reaction is normal and to deal with it calmly and unemotionally. This is where you can gain more control of the outcome by being the strong leader. She is emotionally shaken now with unsure footing, seeing you as the committed husband willing to carry the ball will be attractive to her. To react to it with your own resentment or anger will lengthen the amount of time it takes her to come out of it or disrupt the process all together.




Decimated said:


> I wish I knew what she needed. I have been asking her but she doesn't seem to know or doesn't have an answer.


She may not know or she may not be willing to tell you. When I asked I literally got a written laundry list. Some fair, some not. And that may not be a bad idea for her. Ask her to sit down by herself and jot down the issues in the marriage. Money, sex, you, kids, what ever. Bullet points. Sit down with the list and be prepared not to challenge anything she says. Even if it seems unfair. Now, here's a tip from a 30 year sales veteran. Do not make statements to her. Ask questions only.

How should we have...?

What are some examples?

What can I do to...?

And if she has something on the list that you deem unfair or unfathomable don't argue it. Counter with an open ended question like "Why does that make you feel that way?

If she opens up to you, consider it a success and end the conversation with a thanks and let me process this a bit. Don't go into plans or promises. Then go into your time or self reflection. Find the areas you think you can do a better job and plan for that. It there are items you feel unreasonable you'll need to address that with her later. 

Do not read this to be a situation that you are giving into her every whim or taking a subservient position. If that happens she will likely retreat further or try and manipulate you. This is an opportunity to take the lead in the situation and shepherd it to a better place.

Good luck.


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## WasDecimated

Amplexor said:


> Ask her to sit down by herself and jot down the issues in the marriage. Money, sex, you, kids, what ever. Bullet points.


I want to do this but I don't think she is to this point or ready yet. She won't discuss or talk about any of it yet verbally so I think I will have to wait it out.

She said the other night that she doesn't want to talk about it...at least not yet. She was referring to the affair. I have got the "I don't know" in response to questions about what she needs from me.


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## WasDecimated

*Thank You Amplexor,

Do you think that your marriage recovery would have been faster or ended with different results if you would have taken a hard stance instead of the strong but patient with Trust and forgiveness approach?

In other words, do you think the cold, hard reality of Divorce papers in her hands would have changed to outcome...cleared the fog and woke her up faster or drove her away?*


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## Jellybeans

Taking a hard stance and standing up for yourself, IMO, is the best way to go. 

Cause the longer you let the affair go on w/o telling them you're not going to put up with it, the more respect your spouse loses for you, and the worse your chances are for reconciliation are.


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## Amplexor

Decimated said:


> *Thank You Amplexor,
> 
> Do you think that your marriage recovery would have been faster or ended with different results if you would have taken a hard stance instead of the strong but patient with Trust and forgiveness approach?
> 
> In other words, do you think the cold, hard reality of Divorce papers in her hands would have changed to outcome...cleared the fog and woke her up faster or drove her away?*


Dec,

That is an excellent question and one I've asked myself many times. I do believe that taking a hard stance can be effective in waking up a wayward spouse but not in every circumstance. In our case taking a hard stance from the get go probably would have been a hindrance and driven her closer to TOM. She had completely detached from me. In our case I am certain that exposure would have killed us before we got out of the gate. In our case I relied on my wife's moral code and sense of duty to our marriage and to our kids to be my ally in this all. But it was going to take time. Based on where we ended up I wouldn't change a thing even if a different route brought us back more quickly. I very much regard the time invested as a needed step to rebuild the foundations of the marriage. I stumbled through this just as much as anybody does. Sometimes I hit the nail on the head others I got by with dumb luck. Some times I [email protected]#d it up all together. Had I understood what an EA was, I would have been more aggressive in seeing an end to it earlier. Had I understood how effective sex could be in rebuilding bonds I'd have pushed that quicker. And to be honest sometimes I lacked the balls to take the risks needed for results. It's pretty easy to be a Monday morning quarterback but it still doesn't change the outcome.

After the initial shock of discovery and my subsequent emotional melt down I turned to what I knew. My faith to keep me strong and guide me and years of experience in methodically working a process. As I said, I am a sales professional. I sell mid-range IT solutions in a depressed market place. My sales cycles run at a minimum 3 months up to 2 years. I took a business approach. Find the objection, rectify it and move on to the next. I felt no need to "close the deal" at every small victory. I knew the process would take a long time, but knew it had taken us years to get this far under water. I did it with as much confidence as I could because my confidence is what attracted my wife to me in the first place. That was key because she had to get to a point where she let go of him and turn to me to help carry us through. At that point, I was pretty much in full control and it was just a matter of time. Patience and confidence had done their jobs.

Everyone's situation is different and there are not set formulas, only hints as to what to do. In our case I credit my wife for much of our success. She was at fault for getting involved with another man, even though she was in self denial for a long time. But aside from that, she was brutally honest with me. She didn't play games and that had a huge roll in determining my strategy. If I didn't believe in her for that honesty, different actions would have been needed. Harder actions.

So, clear as mud, I've not answered your question. Because there is no set answer. I think everyone needs to look at all the options, advice and resources and pick the one that seems to fit your marriage as you understand it. If that doesn't work with time, try another that seems viable. But it all starts with understanding your spouse even though they may be completely in the wrong, irrational or detached.


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## Darth Vader

Decimated said:


> *Thank You Amplexor,
> 
> Do you think that your marriage recovery would have been faster or ended with different results if you would have taken a hard stance instead of the strong but patient with Trust and forgiveness approach?
> 
> In other words, do you think the cold, hard reality of Divorce papers in her hands would have changed to outcome...cleared the fog and woke her up faster or drove her away?*


Seriously man, drop her ass! She's ain't worth it! Cancel joint credit cards, get a separate bank account, protect all of your assets like house, retirement, 401k, etc. File for Divorce and go for sole custody of the children, which means you may get joint custody so you may not have to pay child support and pay for her affair!

Time to cut the cord, NOW!


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## WasDecimated

Hi, it's me again. Thanks again for all of your responses.

I have been taking some of the advice from you good folks and considering some of the others. 

Here is the situation since my last post.
My wife seems to be doing better around the house. We are talking about everyday things like the children, household stuff and even our jobs and family matters just fine. We even joke around and are somewhat playful at times. This is good progress in my mind. She has been online looking at vacation destinations and checking hotels and rates for our family trips this year. Why would someone who is checking out of a marriage be planning our future vacations ? To a casual observer there would be no sign of any problems. I notice that her eye contact is not as much as it use to be pre affair. She does not casually touch me as much...holding hands or butt pats. It does happen but it is still rare. 

Saturday we went out to dinner with the kids. Sunday she went to church with us. Later in the day, just her and I went shopping for furniture for one of my kids rooms that she has redesigned. We seemed to have a good time. We were talking a lot and even stopped for a bite of lunch and shared a piece chocolate of pie (her idea). It was a little uncomfortable for me in the since that I was always worried to say the right things and stay upbeat and interesting. I feel pressure to impress her in some way. I want her to see me as someone that she wants to be around….the guy she fell in love with. She seemed to have a good time and was happy. Again, the her eye contact was not as good as it was before the affair. It feels like she is trying to reconnect with me emotionally but in small steps. 

On most days we share nice hugs and kisses when I leave for work or return home but there is still no sex...I have not initiated. We have always slept in the same bed. Interestingly enough, while sleeping, she always maintains physical contact with me. There have been nights where I have moved away and she will work her way next to me again. We have a big bed so if she did not want to touch me, all she would have to do is move over.

I have decided to take the advice of Amplexor, alphaomega and some others and not to bring up her affair and press her for answers or conversation regarding it. In the past, when I do this she changes instantly from being happy to almost immediately going into a defensive, cold, shut down mode….the evil twin. This approach does not seem to help in anyway. I feel like she is trying to reconnect with me and these affair conversations cause a setback in any progress. She even said over a month ago that when I try to talk to her about it or get answers, I drives her away.

It is my feeling that she has compartmentalized her affair. When she is forced to go into that compartment she shuts down and will not talk about. The reasons could be like fear, guilt, shame or sadness among others. I think she had developed real feelings for the OM and she is letting go by locking them up. During this time she had disconnected from me. I could be wrong but I feel like she is trying to reconnect with me but it will take time and patience on my part. She needs time to fall in love with me again. This is a difficult situation for me to be in. Part of me wants to go dark and distant (hard 180) from her but doing this, I feel, will cause her not to trust me and will have the adverse affect that I want to achieve. She needs to feel comfortable with us in order to open up. I think she needs to trust me in order to reconnect. Keep in mind, she is looking at me through the eyes of someone who has lied and deceived….guilty conscience. She may now feel that I am capable of this as well. I feel that once she reconnects with me and feels safe, she will be able to start talking about everything without fear of driving me away or her feeling her own pain. 

I do not think she is still in contact anymore with him although, I cannot be sure. GPS tracker shows nothing out of the ordinary. She leaves her receipts laying around so I compare the check out times against the GPS times to look for gaps. I am still keeping my eyes on things but I will not ask her for complete itineraries. I will let her think that I am not interested in that anymore. Hopefully, If she slips up I will know.


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## Saffron

So sorry you have to go through this too Decimated. It seems every affair situation is different, so you need to do what you think will work best.

Last year my husband had an EA/PA (sex in a hotel on two occasions). During the affair, whenever he actually tried to imagine leaving me, he couldn't. It was too painful to think about or seriously consider. 

When he confessed the PA portion of his affair, I said we were getting a divorce. I stated it as a done deal and wasn't bluffing. In that moment, I was done. It was also the moment the fog lifted for him. When faced with the real possibility of life without me, he wanted to do anything to prevent it.

I've often wondered what would've happend if I had found out about his affair earlier. By the time I found out, my DS was already noticing the OW's flaws. It was getting harder to ignore them inorder to keep the fantasy alive. So, when he was threatened with losing me and our shared history of 15 years, it was a no brainer. Not so sure that would've been the case in the midst of his affair. I'll never know, but I can see why you may want to woo your wife back before hashing out her affair.

I hope whatever you're doing works, but be prepared for more revelations if the fog lifts. They lie and trickle truth a lot when they're in the fog.


----------



## Amplexor

Decimated said:


> Here is the situation since my last post.
> My wife seems to be doing better around the house. We are talking about everyday things like the children, household stuff and even our jobs and family matters just fine. We even joke around and are somewhat playful at times. This is good progress in my mind. She has been online looking at vacation destinations and checking hotels and rates for our family trips this year. Why would someone who is checking out of a marriage be planning our future vacations ? .


All good signs but be careful to not read too much into such things. Positive or negative.



Decimated said:


> It was a little uncomfortable for me in the since that I was always worried to say the right things and stay upbeat and interesting. I feel pressure to impress her in some way.


Normal to be a bit awkward. Be as at ease as you can.



Decimated said:


> but there is still no sex...I have not initiated.


Sex can have more bonding power than you can imagine, move forward when you feel the time is right.




Decimated said:


> We have always slept in the same bed. Interestingly enough, while sleeping, she always maintains physical contact with me. There have been nights where I have moved away and she will work her way next to me again. We have a big bed so if she did not want to touch me, all she would have to do is move over..


Good



Decimated said:


> I have decided to take the advice of Amplexor, alphaomega and some others and not to bring up her affair and press her for answers or conversation regarding it. .


If you can let this go for awhile it sounds like it would be best to. Be aware she may never be ready to discuss it beyond what she has already. For us we both moved passed it without much discussion.




Decimated said:


> I could be wrong but I feel like she is trying to reconnect with me but it will take time and patience on my part. She needs time to fall in love with me again. This is a difficult situation for me to be in. Part of me wants to go dark and distant (hard 180) from her but doing this, I feel, will cause her not to trust me and will have the adverse affect that I want to achieve.


Stay positive and confident. If she is trying the 180 is the wrong approach. If she digresses and reconnects with TOM would be a time to use tough love tactics

Good luck.


----------



## Darth Vader

Decimated said:


> Hi, it's me again. Thanks again for all of your responses.
> 
> I have been taking some of the advice from you good folks and considering some of the others.
> 
> Here is the situation since my last post.
> My wife seems to be doing better around the house. We are talking about everyday things like the children, household stuff and even our jobs and family matters just fine. We even joke around and are somewhat playful at times. This is good progress in my mind. She has been online looking at vacation destinations and checking hotels and rates for our family trips this year. Why would someone who is checking out of a marriage be planning our future vacations ? To a casual observer there would be no sign of any problems. I notice that her eye contact is not as much as it use to be pre affair. She does not casually touch me as much...holding hands or butt pats. It does happen but it is still rare.
> 
> Saturday we went out to dinner with the kids. Sunday she went to church with us. Later in the day, just her and I went shopping for furniture for one of my kids rooms that she has redesigned. We seemed to have a good time. We were talking a lot and even stopped for a bite of lunch and shared a piece chocolate of pie (her idea). It was a little uncomfortable for me in the since that I was always worried to say the right things and stay upbeat and interesting. I feel pressure to impress her in some way. I want her to see me as someone that she wants to be around….the guy she fell in love with. She seemed to have a good time and was happy. Again, the her eye contact was not as good as it was before the affair. It feels like she is trying to reconnect with me emotionally but in small steps.
> 
> On most days we share nice hugs and kisses when I leave for work or return home but there is still no sex...I have not initiated. We have always slept in the same bed. Interestingly enough, while sleeping, she always maintains physical contact with me. There have been nights where I have moved away and she will work her way next to me again. We have a big bed so if she did not want to touch me, all she would have to do is move over.
> 
> I have decided to take the advice of Amplexor, alphaomega and some others and not to bring up her affair and press her for answers or conversation regarding it. In the past, when I do this she changes instantly from being happy to almost immediately going into a defensive, cold, shut down mode….the evil twin. This approach does not seem to help in anyway. I feel like she is trying to reconnect with me and these affair conversations cause a setback in any progress. She even said over a month ago that when I try to talk to her about it or get answers, I drives her away.
> 
> It is my feeling that she has compartmentalized her affair. When she is forced to go into that compartment she shuts down and will not talk about. The reasons could be like fear, guilt, shame or sadness among others. I think she had developed real feelings for the OM and she is letting go by locking them up. During this time she had disconnected from me. I could be wrong but I feel like she is trying to reconnect with me but it will take time and patience on my part. She needs time to fall in love with me again. This is a difficult situation for me to be in. Part of me wants to go dark and distant (hard 180) from her but doing this, I feel, will cause her not to trust me and will have the adverse affect that I want to achieve. She needs to feel comfortable with us in order to open up. I think she needs to trust me in order to reconnect. Keep in mind, she is looking at me through the eyes of someone who has lied and deceived….guilty conscience. She may now feel that I am capable of this as well. I feel that once she reconnects with me and feels safe, she will be able to start talking about everything without fear of driving me away or her feeling her own pain.
> 
> I do not think she is still in contact anymore with him although, I cannot be sure. GPS tracker shows nothing out of the ordinary. She leaves her receipts laying around so I compare the check out times against the GPS times to look for gaps. I am still keeping my eyes on things but I will not ask her for complete itineraries. I will let her think that I am not interested in that anymore. Hopefully, If she slips up I will know.



She goes into defensive mode because she doesn't want to take responsibility for her actions, neither does she want to _suffer any consequences to her actions_! She has to suffer consequences, so far you're not making her suffer any at all for her actions and she will do this again to you!


----------



## WasDecimated

Hello friends, it has been over a week and I wanted to give you an update on my situation.

There have been some good changes in the last 10 days. It appears that things may have began to progress in the right direction. However, I am still proceeding with caution. My hard 180 seems to be working.

She has begun open up and talk about her affair and her emotional involvement with OM. We talk about it every couple of days for short amounts of time. I try to keep non-threatening and at about 1/2 hour increments so she doesn't go into overload and shut down. She seems to tolerate more questions now without getting irritated. She say's she has not had any contact with OM in well over a month. (One of her girl friends who knows the OM has verified this to me in private.) The GPS tracker shows nothing. She has been sharing her days with me and letting me know where she goes. She swears on the lives of our children that it was just an EA not PA and actually has a look of disgust on her face when I have suggested that it could have been more. (The same girlfriend who knows OM has also verified no PA as well) She has also opened up her email and Facebook accounts to me which I went through and found nothing. She has been spending a lot less time on the computer and does not guard her phone anymore. 

Her attitude towards me has changed dramatically. She is much more talkative, open and warm…much happier. Her eye contact with me has greatly improved. This was something that she was never able to mask or hide from me. Also, there has been much more touching and physical closeness.

I am taking the situation one day at a time but I am trying to give her the benefit of the doubt as long as she shows improvement and an effort to regain trust. 

Hopefully, she will keep improving and showing effort. Even at this pace it will take a long time for me to feel comfortable. Until then, my lawyer is on my speed dial…and she knows it.


----------



## Amplexor

Some good points on both sides. She continues to open up, come clean and respect your boundaries. You have remained calm, composed and confident. Sometimes it takes a shock to the system to bring a WS back. Sounds like you are on the right track for her and your marriage. This may turn around quickly or take more time to really get to the heart of the matter. Keep on course and keep us updated. Good luck.


----------



## Darth Vader

Decimated said:


> Hello friends, it has been over a week and I wanted to give you an update on my situation.
> 
> There have been some good changes in the last 10 days. It appears that things may have began to progress in the right direction. However, I am still proceeding with caution. My hard 180 seems to be working.
> 
> She has begun open up and talk about her affair and her emotional involvement with OM. We talk about it every couple of days for short amounts of time. I try to keep non-threatening and at about 1/2 hour increments so she doesn't go into overload and shut down. She seems to tolerate more questions now without getting irritated. She say's she has not had any contact with OM in well over a month. (One of her girl friends who knows the OM has verified this to me in private.) The GPS tracker shows nothing. She has been sharing her days with me and letting me know where she goes. She swears on the lives of our children that it was just an EA not PA and actually has a look of disgust on her face when I have suggested that it could have been more. (The same girlfriend who knows OM has also verified no PA as well) She has also opened up her email and Facebook accounts to me which I went through and found nothing. She has been spending a lot less time on the computer and does not guard her phone anymore.
> 
> Her attitude towards me has changed dramatically. She is much more talkative, open and warm…much happier. Her eye contact with me has greatly improved. This was something that she was never able to mask or hide from me. Also, there has been much more touching and physical closeness.
> 
> I am taking the situation one day at a time but I am trying to give her the benefit of the doubt as long as she shows improvement and an effort to regain trust.
> 
> Hopefully, she will keep improving and showing effort. Even at this pace it will take a long time for me to feel comfortable. Until then, my lawyer is on my speed dial…and she knows it.


So, let the trickle truthing begin! Chances are, they screwed each other, but, she doesn't want to tell you in fear that you will leave her, many women fear that their husbands will leave them! BTW, I hope I'm wrong about them screwing, not a good thing to happen, ever!


----------



## Complexity

How is it going by the way Decimated?


----------



## dymo

It looks like Decimated continued updating in little bits over various other threads. Here are some of his posts.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...them-if-they-say-i-love-you-2.html#post305052
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-css-talk-about-their-affairs.html#post412027
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-css-talk-about-their-affairs.html#post412744
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery-8.html#post436795
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33850-why-should-i-6.html#post470336
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ing-but-just-makes-me-angry-2.html#post483454
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ould-you-interpret-message-10.html#post507595
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...onfrontation-papers-served-go.html#post513998
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...frontation-papers-served-go-2.html#post518038


----------



## Complexity

dymo said:


> It looks like Decimated continued updating in little bits over various other threads. Here are some of his posts.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...them-if-they-say-i-love-you-2.html#post305052
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-css-talk-about-their-affairs.html#post412027
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-css-talk-about-their-affairs.html#post412744
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery-8.html#post436795
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33850-why-should-i-6.html#post470336
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ing-but-just-makes-me-angry-2.html#post483454
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ould-you-interpret-message-10.html#post507595
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...onfrontation-papers-served-go.html#post513998
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...frontation-papers-served-go-2.html#post518038


thanks alot, so sad


----------



## working_together

As a woman who had an affair on her husband last year I can totally understand where your wife is at right now. I was exactly at the same place immediately after we R. I ended it with OM, it was really hard, I went through horrible withdrawls, and yeah, I needed time to mourn the relationship. It was intense at times, and other times, I knew that it would have to end, but I was so addicted to the feelings I got from it.

For me, it took a few months to get out of the fog, and start to feel somewhat "normal". Hubby was very persistant about knowing all the details and would not let anything go, right down to penis size, it was painful to talk about it with my husband, but I knew he needed to hear it in order to get all the visual imagery out of his head. In the end it helped him deal with that part of it, and he also realized that the sex was no different that we had prior to the affair. So, we dealt with that issue quickly, then moved on to the lying, which nearly killed him. He could not believe that lying had become so easy for me. So 9 months later we are still working on our marriage. In the last couple of weeks things are getting back to "normal", he hasn't even mentioned OM in a week.

I believe she is going through a mid life crisis, I too went through the same stuff, not fulfilled in my carrer, not feeling I was attractive, even though hubby would constantly tell me that I was, it just didn't matter anymore. I needed to ease my inner pain, and chose to escape through an affair.

I'm not sure what to say about her not interested in resuming sexual contact with you, for hubby it was necessary to engage in that aspect of our relationship. For him he really needed to re-connect on that level, and I couldn't reject him as I had done during my affair and I really needed him at that point as well. I really think you and your wife need to re-connect on that level as part of your R.

good luck


----------



## Complexity

What frightens me is that Decimated did everything right in the husband department and went above and beyond what was needed. It's something I planned on doing when I get married.

It's really starting to question my faith in the fidelity of women in that even after all that, she can go on with a clear heart screwing another guy for 2 years while her husband does everything to make their lives as comfortable and loving as possible.

Can you actually ever trust women? and on a more fundamental level are their women who don't sleep with a guy after he tells them they're pretty a couple of times? His first wife did the same thing and now the second time round? Wow

Dreading Rant over.


----------



## dymo

working_together said:


> As a woman who had an affair on her husband last year I can totally understand where your wife is at right now. I was exactly at the same place immediately after we R. I ended it with OM, it was really hard, I went through horrible withdrawls, and yeah, I needed time to mourn the relationship. It was intense at times, and other times, I knew that it would have to end, but I was so addicted to the feelings I got from it.
> 
> For me, it took a few months to get out of the fog, and start to feel somewhat "normal". Hubby was very persistant about knowing all the details and would not let anything go, right down to penis size, it was painful to talk about it with my husband, but I knew he needed to hear it in order to get all the visual imagery out of his head. In the end it helped him deal with that part of it, and he also realized that the sex was no different that we had prior to the affair. So, we dealt with that issue quickly, then moved on to the lying, which nearly killed him. He could not believe that lying had become so easy for me. So 9 months later we are still working on our marriage. In the last couple of weeks things are getting back to "normal", he hasn't even mentioned OM in a week.
> 
> I believe she is going through a mid life crisis, I too went through the same stuff, not fulfilled in my carrer, not feeling I was attractive, even though hubby would constantly tell me that I was, it just didn't matter anymore. I needed to ease my inner pain, and chose to escape through an affair.
> 
> I'm not sure what to say about her not interested in resuming sexual contact with you, for hubby it was necessary to engage in that aspect of our relationship. For him he really needed to re-connect on that level, and I couldn't reject him as I had done during my affair and I really needed him at that point as well. I really think you and your wife need to re-connect on that level as part of your R.
> 
> good luck


working together, read my previous post. They are divorcing.


----------



## dymo

Complexity said:


> What frightens me is that Decimated did everything right in the husband department and went above and beyond was needed.
> 
> It's really starting to question my faith in the fidelity of women.


Actually, if you read some of Decimated's posts (which I didn't link) he believes he did everything wrong, and that he should have followed the advice on TAM. He took too soft a line, and his marriage suffered for it.


----------



## working_together

What, sheesh, I forgot to read how old this thread was....I hate that.


----------



## Complexity

dymo said:


> Actually, if you read some of Decimated's posts (which I didn't link) he believes he did everything wrong, and that he should have followed the advice on TAM. He took too soft a line, and his marriage suffered for it.


If you're away from home too much=problem
If you come home and do everything= problem?

Unless I'm missing something here, I really don't know how him being soft cost him his marriage? if you mean him being soft with his wife after the affair, then that makes matters even worse.


----------



## dymo

Complexity said:


> If you're away from home too much=problem
> If you come home and do everything= problem?
> 
> Unless I'm missing something here, I really don't know how him being soft cost him his marriage? if you mean him being soft with his wife after the affair, then that makes matters even worse.


I think maybe I shouldn't be trying to do too much paraphrasing of what he said. You can always have a look at his posts. There aren't that many compared to some.


----------



## oldmittens

Any updates. have you left your wife yet. Are you doing well


----------



## morituri

You can send him a PM, if you'd like.


----------



## oldmittens

thanks for the tip


----------



## WasDecimated

Hello everyone,

I'm still alive. I was surprised to see this thread bumped. I will update for anyone that is interested as soon as I have some more time...maybe this evening. 

Some of you have brought up some interesting questions about doing things wrong or right. I also want to thank Working_Together for her insight.


----------



## warlock07

Nice to hear from you again. I hope you are doing well


----------



## skip76

working_together said:


> As a woman who had an affair on her husband last year I can totally understand where your wife is at right now. I was exactly at the same place immediately after we R. I ended it with OM, it was really hard, I went through horrible withdrawls, and yeah, I needed time to mourn the relationship. It was intense at times, and other times, I knew that it would have to end, but I was so addicted to the feelings I got from it.
> 
> For me, it took a few months to get out of the fog, and start to feel somewhat "normal". Hubby was very persistant about knowing all the details and would not let anything go, right down to penis size, it was painful to talk about it with my husband, but I knew he needed to hear it in order to get all the visual imagery out of his head. In the end it helped him deal with that part of it, and he also realized that the sex was no different that we had prior to the affair. So, we dealt with that issue quickly, then moved on to the lying, which nearly killed him. He could not believe that lying had become so easy for me. So 9 months later we are still working on our marriage. In the last couple of weeks things are getting back to "normal", he hasn't even mentioned OM in a week.
> 
> I believe she is going through a mid life crisis, I too went through the same stuff, not fulfilled in my carrer, not feeling I was attractive, even though hubby would constantly tell me that I was, it just didn't matter anymore. I needed to ease my inner pain, and chose to escape through an affair.
> 
> I'm not sure what to say about her not interested in resuming sexual contact with you, for hubby it was necessary to engage in that aspect of our relationship. For him he really needed to re-connect on that level, and I couldn't reject him as I had done during my affair and I really needed him at that point as well. I really think you and your wife need to re-connect on that level as part of your R.
> 
> good luck




working, i am interested in how your husband deals with those details, unless they are all in his favor and if he believes you. with technology these days, it is sometimes harder to recover because you can't bury yur head in the sand and believe the lies you are fed. i only still have contact with one guy from a previous forum i wrote on and his wife is maybe the most remorseful and sorry i have ever seen. he can't go back to her because of the stuff he read in emails and texts, penis size, positions, toys, orgasms, comparing OM to her lousy lover husband, etc. he wanted to try again but could not get over what she had said to the OM.


----------



## working_together

skip76 said:


> working, i am interested in how your husband deals with those details, unless they are all in his favor and if he believes you. with technology these days, it is sometimes harder to recover because you can't bury yur head in the sand and believe the lies you are fed. i only still have contact with one guy from a previous forum i wrote on and his wife is maybe the most remorseful and sorry i have ever seen. he can't go back to her because of the stuff he read in emails and texts, penis size, positions, toys, orgasms, comparing OM to her lousy lover husband, etc. he wanted to try again but could not get over what she had said to the OM.


At the beginning the details really killed him. He would ask me over and over the same thing, I would get mad, shut down, or cry. He was persistant and would not let up. Knowing all the details went on for weeks it seemed. I repeated the same thing to him regarding the sex. For me, the sex wasn't as important as the emotional connection I received from OM. We weren't having sex everyday as some people think their BS's are, we weren't having freakish or great sex. It was average, it seemed better sometimes because of the emotional bond. My husband gets this now, but it took a long time. There was only one sexual detail that he had the most difficulty with. My explanation makes sense to him. Of course I trickled truth on other aspects of the affair, I never wanted him to know the idiot told me he loved me or wanted more kids, just thought at the time it would hurt him even more. It was dumb thinking, because the lack of information or lies bothered him even more. He even now sometimes thinks that there is more to come.

He also read some emails that I sent OM, not sexually related, but emotional, and this hurt him beyond belief, and he still brings it up 9 months later....


----------



## WasDecimated

Well, my last post on this thread was in March. That's a long time ago. A lot has happened since then…but not nearly enough. I have posted since on other threads so some of this may be old news. This is the abbreviated version.

I did contact the OM 's wife at the end of April 2011 to let her know about them and to find out if she knew anything. It turns out that she knew a lot more then I did. She had been keeping a calendar with his activities for over a year. She had caught them twice at restaurants and even coming out of a movie theater. The big thing she had was thousands of messages between them dating about a year earlier…several months' worth. It was a PA as I was beginning to suspect…the messages confirmed it. This was the most painful stuff I have ever had to read. There was definitely an emotional connection between them even though she claims the sex didn’t happen that much. 

I confronted her with this. She said she was ashamed of who she became during her affair. Even after finding out that much my wife would not talk or open up with the whole truth. This has not really changed…even to this day. She seems incapable of talking about it. She didn't want a divorce so I decided to try to continue to R with her. 

Over the summer things seemed to be going better between us. We went on several trips with our kids and one just the two of us. Our sex life started to pick up to almost a normal level except it seemed one sided…she was there but it felt as if not emotionally. About once a week I would initiate the conversation about her affair. I would still not get the whole story from her…just bits and pieces at best. She would mostly just sit there and stair at the floor and the conversation would end up being me venting about all the pain she was putting me through and telling her what I needed from her.

In late September I noticed her starting to become distant again. I assumed she was in contact with him again…something she flatly denies. This went on for another month. In conversations during that time with her all I would get was the occasional “I don’t know what I want” I assumed she was still on the fence and trying to choose between OM and me. She insisted that it wasn’t that and that there was no contact. I found no proof that there was. She did admit that she was infatuated with him at the time and they had a connection. She also doesn’t buy into the “it was a fantasy” theory. She say’s it was real.

Finally in November I called my attorney and filled for divorce. After work one day I asked her what was going on with us and I expressed my extreme disappointment with our progress…actually regression. She didn’t have much of an answer so I gave her the papers and told her that I had done everything I possibly could to save us…but she did not. I was done. 

She wouldn’t touch the papers. She brushed them aside. To this day they are still setting on her dresser…unread, untouched and unsigned. She is ignoring them…pretending like they aren’t there. Last week she cleaned her side of the room (she is messy). She cleaned around them without even touching them!

I just don’t get it. I have not seen what I consider true remorse from her or even a deep heart felt apology…just a couple of simple “I’m sorrys” yet she say's she doesn't want a divorce. Hell, she still has a password on her laptop.

I know she has always been stubborn but really?

I know that some of you… most of you may think I am crazy but I don’t think there is anymore contact with OM…of course there are an infinite number of ways she could be. Also, the affair could still be playing in her mind. I honestly think she is just disconnected emotionally from me. Anyone want to comment on this?

She does tell me that she loves me but they are simple “I love you’s”. She doesn’t want a divorce. She maybe trying to reconnect but doesn’t know how. She won’t read any of the books I have in order to learn. Funny thing is she still talks about future family plans as if nothing has happened. Our conversations about everyday stuff are fine. If someone was a fly on the wall in our home they would be hard pressed to see that there was anything wrong.

Anyway, that is where I am right now. It is still a mess in my mind. My next step is to have her served because she won’t sign the receipt. My attorney is telling me that she has taken so long that it has cut short the negotiating time we will need down the road. I may have to withdraw my petition and re-file in order to restart the clock.


----------



## oldmittens

I'm so sorry you're going through this your wife sounds like a truly confused and selfish person. From the sounds of it you have done everything you possibly could to try and save this marriage. But the time for you to try has past you need to start putting pressure on your wife to change and the only way you can do that is to move on. Showing your wife that you no longer need her and that you are not her doormat/ATM could be the wake-up call that saves your marriage or at the very least gives you back your life. I'm not saying that you are a doormat or any of that just that it's time for a change clearly the way you been doing things is not working. your next step should be to have her served and inform her you want her to leave the home. Tell her that the only way you even consider reconciliation is a she comes an open book passwords e-mail accounts Facebook phone etc. etc. etc. demanded a NC letter be sent to the OM immediately and most importantly make sure she answers every question you have about the affair no matter how much it makes her uncomfortable. You are a good person who has gone above and beyond what most people would tolerate to save your marriage. And what have you been met with nothing but lies and apathy every step of the way it's time for change my friend and I hope you're ready to do it (sounds like you are) I wish you the best of luck you deserve much better than what you're getting.


----------



## CH

She's looking to get back to status quo, you keep your mouth shut, she does her thing. You both do things together once in a blue moon, have sex to keep you quiet and life goes on like before like nothing happened.

Must have been a painful 8 or so months so far living with a zombie in the house.


----------



## Complexity

She's in love with the OM and hasn't shown any real remorse. You did the right thing.


----------



## working_together

Decimated said:


> Well, my last post on this thread was in March. That's a long time ago. A lot has happened since then…but not nearly enough. I have posted since on other threads so some of this may be old news. This is the abbreviated version.
> 
> I did contact the OM 's wife at the end of April 2011 to let her know about them and to find out if she knew anything. It turns out that she knew a lot more then I did. She had been keeping a calendar with his activities for over a year. She had caught them twice at restaurants and even coming out of a movie theater. The big thing she had was thousands of messages between them dating about a year earlier…several months' worth. It was a PA as I was beginning to suspect…the messages confirmed it. This was the most painful stuff I have ever had to read. There was definitely an emotional connection between them even though she claims the sex didn’t happen that much.
> 
> I confronted her with this. She said she was ashamed of who she became during her affair. Even after finding out that much my wife would not talk or open up with the whole truth. This has not really changed…even to this day. She seems incapable of talking about it. She didn't want a divorce so I decided to try to continue to R with her.
> 
> Over the summer things seemed to be going better between us. We went on several trips with our kids and one just the two of us. Our sex life started to pick up to almost a normal level except it seemed one sided…she was there but it felt as if not emotionally. About once a week I would initiate the conversation about her affair. I would still not get the whole story from her…just bits and pieces at best. She would mostly just sit there and stair at the floor and the conversation would end up being me venting about all the pain she was putting me through and telling her what I needed from her.
> 
> In late September I noticed her starting to become distant again. I assumed she was in contact with him again…something she flatly denies. This went on for another month. In conversations during that time with her all I would get was the occasional “I don’t know what I want” I assumed she was still on the fence and trying to choose between OM and me. She insisted that it wasn’t that and that there was no contact. I found no proof that there was. She did admit that she was infatuated with him at the time and they had a connection. She also doesn’t buy into the “it was a fantasy” theory. She say’s it was real.
> 
> Finally in November I called my attorney and filled for divorce. After work one day I asked her what was going on with us and I expressed my extreme disappointment with our progress…actually regression. She didn’t have much of an answer so I gave her the papers and told her that I had done everything I possibly could to save us…but she did not. I was done.
> 
> She wouldn’t touch the papers. She brushed them aside. To this day they are still setting on her dresser…unread, untouched and unsigned. She is ignoring them…pretending like they aren’t there. Last week she cleaned her side of the room (she is messy). She cleaned around them without even touching them!
> 
> I just don’t get it. I have not seen what I consider true remorse from her or even a deep heart felt apology…just a couple of simple “I’m sorrys” yet she say's she doesn't want a divorce. Hell, she still has a password on her laptop.
> 
> I know she has always been stubborn but really?
> 
> I know that some of you… most of you may think I am crazy but I don’t think there is anymore contact with OM…of course there are an infinite number of ways she could be. Also, the affair could still be playing in her mind. I honestly think she is just disconnected emotionally from me. Anyone want to comment on this?
> 
> She does tell me that she loves me but they are simple “I love you’s”. She doesn’t want a divorce. She maybe trying to reconnect but doesn’t know how. She won’t read any of the books I have in order to learn. Funny thing is she still talks about future family plans as if nothing has happened. Our conversations about everyday stuff are fine. If someone was a fly on the wall in our home they would be hard pressed to see that there was anything wrong.
> 
> Anyway, that is where I am right now. It is still a mess in my mind. My next step is to have her served because she won’t sign the receipt. My attorney is telling me that she has taken so long that it has cut short the negotiating time we will need down the road. I may have to withdraw my petition and re-file in order to restart the clock.


Did you ask her what she meant when she said it was "real"? and not a fantasy. If it was "real" why is she still with you? Most affairs are fantasies, no worries about anything, and escape really. BUT, you only realize this when it's totally over, and you have moved on from it. In the thick of it, at times I also thought it was "real", but I also was very addicted to the high it gave me, it gave me the ability to forget about all my problems, my insecurities etc. Not that's ever an excuse, but it's a way of understanding the mind of a cheater.

I think you should go ahead and serve, she needs to know you are serious. You can't live a life like this, without her truly showing much remorse, and trying to move on like it never happened. You need to think about yourself.


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## AngryandUsed

Complexity said:


> She's in love with the OM and hasn't shown any real remorse. You did the right thing.


She has not shown any remorse. She is disconnected. Is she in sound mind? She does not want therapy. :iagree:


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## lordmayhem

OMG. That's a long time to live in limbo, all the while undergoing False R in the process. Of course she doesnt want a divorce, she's a cake eater. She's only with you for the financial security of marriage, while she goes and plays with OM. If she's still in the fog, and it's obvious she is, then the affair is still on. It's just underground. No true remorse, no transparency, no nothing except denial. That's no way to live.

She still doesn't believe you will divorce her, after all, you've threatened to and never had her served.


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## vickyyy

Do you really want to spend rest of your life with such woman ?

She is disrespecting you.Only you working on marriage wont work, she also needs to do her part and she has not do anything.

she is selfish and cake eater .She is only staying with you for security.Divorce her.


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## warlock07

She doesn't want the divorce 

=> She does not want to be the one that breaks up the marriage. Not that she doesn't want to hurt ypu, she just does not want the guilt.

=> She does not want the social stigma of a cheater. Expose her to the social circle/parents if you haven't already.

=> She does not want to lose the life she has(financially) or is ready to face her guilt


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## Thruhellandback

I agree warlock these are all the feelings I had but with a difference...I woke up. When did I wake up? The moment the spell of the affair had been lifted.

I could then read the books he mentioned and more.
I could then say I'm sorry and be able to explain EXACTLY what I should be sorry for.
I could then be present and engaged. 
I'm sorry decimated but you're not being proactive enough. I'm not saying you should demand or be a bully but she needs a reality check. 
BUt as well she needs compassion so dose your hard love accordingly. The fog is real and it takes over your ability to reason. Depression changes your brain chemistry and if one wallows in it too long it can become a feedback loop. 

Ask her to see a psychiatrist. Meds helped me enormously. They evened out the emotions and helped me cope. The downs weren't as deep. THe guilt of living with what I had done to my best friend was sometimes overwhelming and I had suicidal moments that only went away when I went on meds. Now I'm off them and can face life face on with a courage and honesty. It's simple but it's not easy.
You say you have contributed to her being selfish? Probably so. Affairs are symptoms not the cause of a breakup.


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## lascarx

Thruhellandback said:


> Affairs are symptoms not the cause of a breakup.


Maybe in some cases, but not necessarily in all. Trying to set that as the rule and not the exception is blatantly self-serving.

Decimated, I believe that "the fog" is a phony cheap excuse used to whitewash a conscious decision to eat too many sweets, so my advice will be different. Get the divorce done with and get her out of your presence. Sit her down, put the pen in her hand and say you sign these things now because it's high time to put this mistake to rest. If she really thinks anything of you, she'll get out and let you make future decisions at your own pace. Otherwise she's just a bloodsucker and you're well rid of her.


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## warlock07

decimated, Why are you letting her maintain the status quo? Obviously, you are not enjoying it, are you?


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## Almostrecovered

Decimated- by allowing her to ignore the papers she gets what she wants which is to continually rug sweep. Just go and get her served and have the clock tick.


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## Chaparral

The first thing I would do is figure out a way to hack her computer. I know people on here have done it and it can be done. If she did not have anything to hide she would let you see it. Then I would put a keylogger on it. Even if she isn't in contact w/OM she is using the computer to keep her affair alive in her mind.

Of course, she may be in another affair. Hsve you put a VAR in her car/bathroom. Do you have access to her emails, phone logs, Facebook?

She may really want to save her marriage. But you have not made her face any consequences for what she has done(that I see).

Whats up with the OM and his wife, are they also having trouble. It was a huge mistake For the two of you to not contact each other as soon as you could. The longer an affair goes on the more entrenched it becomes. It looks like the OM threw her under the bus for his marriage, is this so?


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## Chaparral

If you want to still give it another go make her read this and follow it. If there is any part of it she doesn't do make her leave your bed,do a 180 and make sure she knows what day she is going to be served. After she is served,if she comes around, and it is not to late for you, you can always stop the divorce. One couple here stopped the divorce on the last day. But you HAVE to make her do her part. You have just let her have her cake and eat it too.



Print this off and make your wife read it:

Read this:

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! 
__________________
What Are Plan A and Plan B?
[urlhttp://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## WasDecimated

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.



> “She's looking to get back to status quo, you keep your mouth shut, she does her thing. You both do things together once in a blue moon, have sex to keep you quiet and life goes on like before like nothing happened.”


This is pretty much true. 



> “Did you ask her what she meant when she said it was "real"? and not a fantasy. If it was "real" why is she still with you? Most affairs are fantasies, no worries about anything, and escape really. BUT, you only realize this when it's totally over, and you have moved on from it. In the thick of it, at times I also thought it was "real", but I also was very addicted to the high it gave me, it gave me the ability to forget about all my problems, my insecurities etc. Not that's ever an excuse, but it's a way of understanding the mind of a cheater.
> 
> I think you should go ahead and serve, she needs to know you are serious. You can't live a life like this, without her truly showing much remorse, and trying to move on like it never happened. You need to think about yourself.”


I tried to explain to her about the whole fantasy thing months ago. I even sent her the link to Surviving Infidelity…The Wayward side. She read some of the threads and declared she did buy that crap about affairs being fantasies. She said her affair was not like those…it was real. In her mind she thinks her affair was special. I told her one day that all of her perceived problems and the solutions to those problems were within her. I said that I was never the problem and he was not the solution and that she was just medicating herself with him to sooth her real issues. Funny how before she met him we never seemed to have any problems in our marriage and she seemed happy. She would even tell me how lucky she was to have me. Then she hooks up with him on fakebook and re-writes history.

I thought by filing D and giving her the papers she would know how serious I was. I think she did until she realizes she still had the power to sign or not. This is just another way for her to control the situation. By having her served, she losses that power.



> “She has not shown any remorse. She is disconnected. Is she in sound mind? She does not want therapy.”


Yes…no remorse and disconnected. I told her to seek therapy almost a year ago…she did nothing. Months ago I told her I was filing if she didn’t. She did finally start seeing a Psychiatrist about 2 months ago but said she isn’t getting anything out of it. She does not share her sessions with me.



> “OMG. That's a long time to live in limbo, all the while undergoing False R in the process. Of course she doesnt want a divorce, she's a cake eater. She's only with you for the financial security of marriage, while she goes and plays with OM. If she's still in the fog, and it's obvious she is, then the affair is still on. It's just underground. No true remorse, no transparency, no nothing except denial. That's no way to live.
> 
> She still doesn't believe you will divorce her, after all, you've threatened to and never had her served.”


Yes, it is an insane amount of time to be emotionally abused…that is what she is doing. At times I felt the R was sincere but it is like the proverbial roller coaster…up and down. But after a year, looking back, I feel not much ground has been covered…not nearly enough for me to feel safe. 

I agree. She wants the life I provide for her, the security and what I represent in terms of what society says she should value…but not me. 

I am not convinced she is in contact with him anymore. I do feel that what is left of her could be part of the collateral damage…the fallout.

No real remorse but she is transparent if I ask.

I thought by handing divorce papers she would believe that I was serious….she just won’t sign them. The next step would be to have her served…no signing involved. 



> “Do you really want to spend rest of your life with such woman ?
> 
> She is disrespecting you. Only you working on marriage wont work, she also needs to do her part and she has not do anything.
> 
> She is selfish and cake eater .She is only staying with you for security. Divorce her.”


I agree. 

No. I should not spend the rest of my life with a woman like her. She has disrespected me in the worst possible way by cheating. The disrespect she has shown after her cheating is just as bad. She has done virtually nothing in terms of fixing what she broke…me and our marriage. She is extremely selfish and stubborn and enjoys a good like. she is unwilling to except consequences for what she did.



> “She doesn't want the divorce
> 
> => She does not want to be the one that breaks up the marriage. Not that she doesn't want to hurt you, she just does not want the guilt.
> 
> => She does not want the social stigma of a cheater. Expose her to the social circle/parents if you haven't already.
> 
> => She does not want to lose the life she has (financially) or is ready to face her guilt”


I agree with all of this….every word!

Her parents both died 4 months apart. This happened about 8 month before she started her affair. I feel strongly that this was one of the catalysts for her change…Mid life crisis? Her other relatives know but she does not know to what extent they know. Most do know everything. She doesn’t know that they know about the PA as well. Sorry...confusing.



> “I agree warlock these are all the feelings I had but with a difference...I woke up. When did I wake up? The moment the spell of the affair had been lifted.
> 
> I could then read the books he mentioned and more.
> I could then say I'm sorry and be able to explain EXACTLY what I should be sorry for.
> I could then be present and engaged.
> 
> I'm sorry decimated but you're not being proactive enough. I'm not saying you should demand or be a bully but she needs a reality check.
> BUt as well she needs compassion so dose your hard love accordingly. The fog is real and it takes over your ability to reason. Depression changes your brain chemistry and if one wallows in it too long it can become a feedback loop.
> 
> Ask her to see a psychiatrist. Meds helped me enormously. They evened out the emotions and helped me cope. The downs weren't as deep. THe guilt of living with what I had done to my best friend was sometimes overwhelming and I had suicidal moments that only went away when I went on meds. Now I'm off them and can face life face on with a courage and honesty. It's simple but it's not easy.
> You say you have contributed to her being selfish? Probably so. Affairs are symptoms not the cause of a breakup.”


I don’t know if she hasn’t woke up yet or she is just uber-stubborn. It has been a year since I began to find out about her affair. She should have woke up by now…the fog should have lifted.

She doesn’t seem depressed. Her psychiatrist did finally prescribe Ativan after I gave her the D papers but I don’t see any change. 

Could the guilt and shame she maybe feeling be preventing her from owning what she did and putting in the effort? I don’t know…seems unlikely.

I have contributed to her Selfishness. I have given her everything she wanted. Now she feels entitled to what ever she wants. 

I have a theory. The more you give someone…the more they want and the more it takes to make them happy. Sooner or later it becomes impossible to satisfy them and they do selfish things like cheat to achieve fulfillment that is absent from within them. My wife has no goals, aspirations, hobbies, or any interests or passions that would help her achieve inner fulfillment and boost self esteem…self worth. I can’t imagine living like that…who would I be?



> “Maybe in some cases, but not necessarily in all. Trying to set that as the rule and not the exception is blatantly self-serving.
> 
> Decimated, I believe that "the fog" is a phony cheap excuse used to whitewash a conscious decision to eat too many sweets, so my advice will be different. Get the divorce done with and get her out of your presence. Sit her down, put the pen in her hand and say you sign these things now because it's high time to put this mistake to rest. If she really thinks anything of you, she'll get out and let you make future decisions at your own pace. Otherwise she's just a bloodsucker and you're well rid of her.”


I am not sure I believe in the fog as being something that blocks out common sense. I do believe the affair emotions and the Dopamine addiction could impair someone to a point where they disregard what was boring in there life in favor of the high and excitement of cheating.

I have tried to reason with her but she still won’t sign.



> “Decimated, Why are you letting her maintain the status quo? Obviously, you are not enjoying it, are you?”


I am not letting her maintain the status quo…I did file for divorce. Trust me, there is nothing enjoyable about having your life and dreams ripped out from under you, for no good reason, by the one person that promised to have your back.



> “The first thing I would do is figure out a way to hack her computer. I know people on here have done it and it can be done. If she did not have anything to hide she would let you see it. Then I would put a keylogger on it. Even if she isn't in contact w/OM she is using the computer to keep her affair alive in her mind.
> 
> Of course, she may be in another affair. Hsve you put a VAR in her car/bathroom. Do you have access to her emails, phone logs, Facebook?
> 
> She may really want to save her marriage. But you have not made her face any consequences for what she has done(that I see).
> 
> Whats up with the OM and his wife, are they also having trouble. It was a huge mistake For the two of you to not contact each other as soon as you could. The longer an affair goes on the more entrenched it becomes. It looks like the OM threw her under the bus for his marriage, is this so?”


I would like to get into her computer but without a password…? If anyone has any hacking experience I am all ears.

I don’t think another affair is likely. Maybe a continuation of the old one but like I said, I don’t think this is what is going on with her. I have no access to any email, fakebook and she has a Droid so secret communication is very possible.

The OM and his wife… She turned out to be a flake. She told him about our contact and then lied to him by saying that it was all about the money for me. I cut off contact with her after that. She knew and had evidence of their affair for over a year and did nothing. That tells me everything I need to know about her. She said she wanted top save her marriage but I am not sure. He did not throw my wife under the bus…he blamed me for their affair to his wife...I was the bad guy. He told her I was some controlling, horrible husband and father and he was comforting her as a friend…really? His wife believes everything he tells her.



> “If you want to still give it another go make her read this and follow it. If there is any part of it she doesn't do make her leave your bed,do a 180 and make sure she knows what day she is going to be served. After she is served,if she comes around, and it is not to late for you, you can always stop the divorce. One couple here stopped the divorce on the last day. But you HAVE to make her do her part. You have just let her have her cake and eat it too.”


Thanks Chapparal. I gave her a copy months ago…I don’t think she ever read it. I don't think she reads anything I send her. That would be like me telling her what to do...she hates being told what to do.


----------



## lordmayhem

Decimated said:


> I have contributed to her Selfishness. I have given her everything she wanted. Now she feels entitled to what ever she wants.
> 
> I have a theory. The more you give someone…the more they want and the more it takes to make them happy. Sooner or later it becomes impossible to satisfy them and they do selfish things like cheat to achieve fulfillment that is absent from within them. My wife has no goals, aspirations, hobbies, or any interests or passions that would help her achieve inner fulfillment and boost self esteem…self worth. I can’t imagine living like that…who would I be?


You've now learned much to your sorrow, and so have many of us here, including myself, that you are actually not being a good husband when you spoil your wife, give her everything she wants, and cater to her every need. Now women say they want a man who is so sensitive, treats her like a princess, and fulfills their every need, but you know what? They quickly tire of that. Then you find out they've fallen for the bad boy, or the alpha male who is feeding her sh!t, like you don't deserve her, etc, etc.

Some eventually get tired of all the attention from their husband and seek it from another man because they already know they have their husband's love. The husband eventually falls into brother/friend status and they seek the validation of their attractiveness from another man. Thats why when you spoiled her, she took you for granted.


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## WasDecimated

I am guilty of this. 

It goes beyond material things. I am a great provider financially so she has the option of working only part time. My money has always been ours and hers is hers. (Her OM only made $20,000 last year according to his wife) I am home every night by 6:00pm. I am involved with our children. I help them with their homework and tuck them in at night. I help them with the dishes and their chores. I do the majority of the laundry and house cleaning. I have always been her for her emotionally and physically. Yep...guilty. The balance of giving and taking started to shift after her parents died and shortly after, her affair started. That is when she became truley lazy. According to my wife OM was the same way around his house. I find that herd to believe because he was never home according to his wife.

I always thought we were a team and I was willing to help out with everything. For the majority of our marriage this was working well. 

I always hear wives complaining about their husbands lacking in these areas. My wife was the envy of all her friends because of my involvement around the house and the life we had. I think she is just deeply messed up and selfish with a warped sence of intitlement.


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## always_hopefull

I am so sorry that you find yourself in this position. Sadly to your wife the status quo is being maintained. You may have filed for divorce, but nothing is happening because _she_ hasn't signed, because _she_ is still in control. She is still in the house, she still has her computer locked, and she is in control of transperancy because you have to ask permission. She is still showing that she only cares about her needs, this is a huge red flag that says even if you R with her she will go back to her selfish cheating ways. 

Does your wife have an Apple computer? If so the PW should not be an issue, if not ask her to unlock it for you and then take a copy of the information. Also get a sim card reader and download whats on her phone. I say this not because you need more evidence, but because you wife seems to have trouble dealing with reality right now. Some insight into what is going on with her will help you handle this situation in an appropriate manner. There have been too many WW's trying to hurt themselves after the fall out.

As for her psychiatrist, they are only as good as the information they get. Make an appointment to see him/her and tell them what is going on. She may not be disclosing the full details. You may not be able to get any feedback but she can still use the information you are giving her.

As long as your wife is in lala land with her mourning the loss of her true love, she will never be able to show remorse. It's hard to appologize for something when she sees nothing wrong with it. I myself am almost a year and a half out of my initial dday, I've lost count of how many there were over that time. Multiple EA's some PA's, hell one was with his nephew's wife. He shows more emotion over the thought of her getting into trouble, than he does when he appologizes. I'm sorry to say but some people are either incapable of remorse, or just so selfish that we are collateral damage to the pursuit of their dreams.

You deserve a woman who will love, respect and appreciate you for who you are, not what you can give.


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## happyman64

Decimated,

She is selfish too the extreme.

She does not care about you. To not feel any guilt or remorse after this length of time is extremely hurtful to you. She has to be aware of what she is doing.

You have no other choice but too move on. She lied about the PA and depth of the relationship. That is just TT to the max.

Do you think she does not want to R and just wants you to be the one to D so she does not have to look like the bad spouse in the relationship?

You are a good, patient man. You deserve so much better than you have received. What a loser the OM is. She deserves him.

Good Luck

HM64


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## Chaparral

It still looks like she won't do this she won't do that blah blah blah. You haven't shown one time what happens when she doesn't do what she has to do. 

Have you cut off credit cards, have closed all joint accts, is she sleeping in the guest bedroom, have you started packing her bags, have you discussed her visitation schedules, did you tell the lawyer to have her served when she refused to sign, can you think of one cosequence? Who pays for her phone, did she pay for her computer?

Frankly, you are in a deeper "fog" than she is. Whether she is hiding things or not she is breaking the deal over and over and over.
She is like a spoiled brat that gets talked to instead of punished.


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## morituri

Her denial seems to be more like a coping mechanism that prevents her from facing the ugly reality she helped create.

I wonder if after the divorce is finalized, whether she will finally open her eyes to what she has done. I guess only time will tell.


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## warlock07

Decimated, would you R if she asked?

There lies your greatest weakness. Are you sure you don't have an attachment disorder


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## working_together

chapparal said:


> It still looks like she won't do this she won't do that blah blah blah. You haven't shown one time what happens when she doesn't do what she has to do.
> 
> Have you cut off credit cards, have closed all joint accts, is she sleeping in the guest bedroom, have you started packing her bags, have you discussed her visitation schedules, did you tell the lawyer to have her served when she refused to sign, can you think of one cosequence? Who pays for her phone, did she pay for her computer?
> 
> Frankly, you are in a deeper "fog" than she is. Whether she is hiding things or not she is breaking the deal over and over and over.
> She is like a spoiled brat that gets talked to instead of punished.


I just wanted to thank you for posting that article. We had a particularly difficult week, my husband was triggering quite badly, and no matter what I could say or do, it wouldn't stop. Then today I came across your post and we read it together, we both cried.

What stood out the most for me was the fact that I still have not apologized enough for what I have done.


----------



## WasDecimated

well, here is the latest.

After reading all of your comments I sat her down to talk this evening. For the first time she actually opened up a little. I started by asking about her emotional attachment to me...or lack there of. It seems she is still thinking about the OM. She still claims NC. To her, the grass on the other side is really green. She is still on the fence about what she wants. 

She seems to have been keeping a score card about me since we were married...15 years and every little thing I ever said that bothered her. However, she could only remember a few. Anyway, she is still mentally involved with him. I told her I refuse to stay married to someone whose heart is elsewhere. 

I told her that I will re-file the D papers and proceed. She wanted me to wait. I said no...I have been waiting long enough and just want to move on.

I explained what the process would be like and what I would be asking for...I was honest.

Afterward, she took an Ativan, put on her coat and left with no destination in mind.


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## Almostrecovered

Start separating finances
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar

I agree about the finances. Make sure you start taking care of yourself financially. I'm not sure what the laws are in your state, but I would consult an attorney and make sure I protected myself financially. Otherwise, she could be rewarded for cheating.


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## Chaparral

Decimated said:


> well, here is the latest.
> 
> After reading all of your comments I sat her down to talk this evening. For the first time she actually opened up a little. I started by asking about her emotional attachment to me...or lack there of. It seems she is still thinking about the OM. She still claims NC. To her, the grass on the other side is really green. She is still on the fence about what she wants.
> 
> She seems to have been keeping a score card about me since we were married...15 years and every little thing I ever said that bothered her. However, she could only remember a few. Anyway, she is still mentally involved with him. I told her I refuse to stay married to someone whose heart is elsewhere.
> 
> I told her that I will re-file the D papers and proceed. She wanted me to wait. I said no...I have been waiting long enough and just want to move on.
> 
> I explained what the process would be like and what I would be asking for...I was honest.
> 
> Afterward, she took an Ativan, put on her coat and left with no destination in mind.


Good start. Is her car and phone GPS'd, I can't remember?

The more I think about it the more I think she is still invloved. The way you described the OM's wife was the clincher. A PI might really be helpful in a divorce.


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## lordmayhem

Yup. Her actions indicate the affair is still on but underground.


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## calif_hope

The affair is not underground (physical contact or not) it's slapping Decimated in the face and laid out before him every time he is in contact with his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oldmittens

Decimated said:


> well, here is the latest.
> 
> After reading all of your comments I sat her down to talk this evening. For the first time she actually opened up a little. I started by asking about her emotional attachment to me...or lack there of. It seems she is still thinking about the OM. She still claims NC. To her, the grass on the other side is really green. She is still on the fence about what she wants.
> 
> She seems to have been keeping a score card about me since we were married...15 years and every little thing I ever said that bothered her. However, she could only remember a few. Anyway, she is still mentally involved with him. I told her I refuse to stay married to someone whose heart is elsewhere.
> 
> I told her that I will re-file the D papers and proceed. She wanted me to wait. I said no...I have been waiting long enough and just want to move on.
> 
> I explained what the process would be like and what I would be asking for...I was honest.
> 
> Afterward, she took an Ativan, put on her coat and left with no destination in mind.


You're starting to do the right things having her served is a great step. You should start separating finances cut off her credit cards start having your pay put into your own separate bank account and telling her she needs to start looking for her own place to live. Next you need to get a lawyer and the first thing you need to do is start looking at custody of your kids and how much you can get. Don't think for a second she's not going to try to take everything from you when she realizes you're dead serious with the divorce. You need to start to detach from her for your own mental and financial well-being if you don't at best you'll just continue to be a doormat/ATM and at worst she will take you to the cleaners and you only get to see your kids every other weekend. 

I'm not saying any of this to insult you (or even her for that matter) I'm saying this because this is all that's left to do. Any hope of saving your marriage now rests with her you've done everything you can do all that's left is to hope that she see's the light. And if she doesn't take solace in the fact that you've moved on and are in a better place. Good luck decimated but given your resilience and ability to tolerate unbearable situations I don't think you need it.


----------



## CH

Decimated said:


> Afterward, she took an Ativan, put on her coat and left with no destination in mind.


We all know where she most likely headed to.....


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## AngryandUsed

lordmayhem said:


> Yup. Her actions indicate the affair is still on but underground.


She does not even seem to be remorseful!


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## WasDecimated

I am in a hard 180 mode. 

She has been moping around the house for 2 days. She looks like she is on the verge of tears all the time. She has been trying to engage me but I have been ignoring her except when it pertains the children. She is upset because I will no longer share the bed with her...really? I will not stay in the same room with her. I have been emotionally disconnecting from her completely and focusing on myself and our children. 

I have instructed my attorney to re-file the papers and I am proceeding with the D. 

I made some lists of things about my wife to help me disconnect. One of the lists contains all of the negative qualities that she possesses and everything I dislike about her. Another list contains everything that she did to me during her affair and after. The third is how miserable life would be like if I didn't divorce her. 

Anytime I start to feel down or sad about this all I have to do is read the lists and it gets me focused again on the realities of the situation and who she really is.


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## Complexity

Yeah it's kinda late to want to talk now, now she's getting what's coming to her and boy oh boy is it an icy bucket of water on the face.


----------



## oldmittens

Well done Decimated you're making all the right decisions. You gave it your all trying to save his marriage now you need to give it your all trying to get the fair divorce you deserve. This is not to be easy the worst is yet to come. Either she will wake up and desperately try to reconcile with you or she will see that you're serious about divorce and will turn on you with a vengeance and try to take everything she can. 

You need to stay strong do not let her get to you. Keep doing what you're doing the list idea is great. Focus on what you're not willing to tolerate in this marriage anymore not on how much you want to save it. She is the only one who can save this marriage. It's not up to you anymore you've done everything you can and have done it with more dignity than most. Once again best of luck.


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## working_together

She's trying to manipulate you into changing your mind, or feeling sorry for her....don't do it. You're on the right track.

Let her come to you with full disclosure, open up her passwords etc.


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## WasDecimated

Thanks for your support.

I am convinced that she must still be in contact with him. That is why she wants me to wait on the divorce and is still confused. She claimed she hasn't had contact with OM since May of 2011...that's 8 months. She should not still be so ambivalent at this point. 

I think my wife is like a tree monkey. She will not let go of the vine she is swinging on until she has a hold of the next one. It could be that she is trying for a smooth transition with him and the timing isn't right yet.

I agree she could very easily turn into the b***h from hell during the negotiating period. She has this side to her...I've seen it in the past when things don't go her way.

I have put up with more then most and have been way too patient to a fault...my fault. I have just had enough. I am feeling strong and confident with myself and my decision. I must maintain this strength. I realize that I have done everything I could so I will have no regrets except waiting to long. Her on the other hand...


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## dymo

Have you had any contact with OM's wife? You may be able to confirm if they are seeing each other from that end.


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## warlock07

She knows he cannot support her with his 20k and the divorce money.

Decimated, she knows your snooping routines. Hire a PI


Edit: How would she be financially if you divorce?


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## WasDecimated

OM's wife is a flake. She knew for over a year that they were cheating and did nothing. She gave me all the proof she had and then threw me under the bus to her husband.

WW will be OK...no fault state. She will get spousal support for about 5 years, child support and 1/2 half of all marital assets. She will have enough to buy a house, car...whatever.

Cheating pays...in my state.

No more snooping.
No PI's.
No more GPS
No more checking up on her. 

I am sick of living like that. I filed for divorce...done.

After living like that for over a year...filing for D feels quite liberating.


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## Dadof3

Dec: Good for you! Good on you!


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## warlock07

> She gave me all the proof she had and then threw me under the bus to her husband.


huh?


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## WasDecimated

Sorry…Clarification.

Back in April I talked to OM's wife on the phone and exchanged info and evidence. She sent me thousands of messages she got off of his computer. We agreed to work together and keep tabs on them from both ends. Then, inexplicably, OM's wife tells OM that we are in contact and what we were doing. She then tells him that I am only staying married to my wife because I don't want to lose half of my money by divorcing. WTF??? Of course OM calls my WW and tells her this and she believed him. I cut off contact with OM's wife immediately. She was doing more damage then good.


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## warlock07

> I am only staying married to my wife because I don't want to lose half of my money by divorcing. WTF??? Of course OM calls my WW and tells her this and she believed him. I cut off contact with OM's wife immediately.


Do you think this effected the R? Loss of trust on either sides?


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## CH

warlock07 said:


> Do you think this effected the R? Loss of trust on either sides?


Doesn't matter anymore at this point. He's finally moved on, no need to go back and think what if this, what if that, what if, what if, what if.

All he can do now is keep moving forward like Mr. Disney would say.


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## warlock07

But it is well worth to ponder if that is what stopped her from committing to R if ever there was a chance to it.


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## Chaparral

Decimated said:


> Sorry…Clarification.
> 
> Back in April I talked to OM's wife on the phone and exchanged info and evidence. She sent me thousands of messages she got off of his computer. We agreed to work together and keep tabs on them from both ends. Then, inexplicably, OM's wife tells OM that we are in contact and what we were doing. She then tells him that I am only staying married to my wife because I don't want to lose half of my money by divorcing. WTF??? Of course OM calls my WW and tells her this and she believed him. I cut off contact with OM's wife immediately. She was doing more damage then good.


I wonder if she really told OM this. There is no upside for her to do that. Sounds more like something OM came up with for spin control and to keep you wife on the line. If you got this info from one of the cheaters remember what happens when a cheaters mouth moves.


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## KanDo

Decimated.

I am glad you have re-filed. Just move own. I know how hard it can be. You and I have somewhat similar stories. Life will get better. I am confident of that.


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## morituri

Any update's Decimated?


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## Initfortheduration

bump


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## oldmittens

bump


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## Almostrecovered

I was just thinking about decimated today too, no lie


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## oldmittens

Almostrecovered said:


> I was just thinking about decimated today too, no lie


I know his name just popped into my head. I hope things are working out well for him he truly one of the saddest stories I've read on this site. I hope he will drop by and give us an update when he is feeling up to it.


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## Almostrecovered

Last he posted he was still trying to serve his wife

We have a psychic connection oldmittens, creepy


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## oldmittens

I know I'm scared to. What is going on in this crazy world LOL.


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## Almostrecovered

Have you also been thinking about cookie dough ice cream?


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## oldmittens

No but I am now LOL. Thanks and I don't have any in my house


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## Whip Morgan

DAMN IT

I saw your name pop up and immediately thought you had gotten me the iPad I want.

And this is quite the sad thread here, have to agree. Hope he comes back to update.


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## oldmittens

I did end up getting an Ipad iust not for you LOL


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## Almostrecovered

oldmittens said:


> No but I am now LOL. Thanks and I don't have any in my house


Yup I'm psychic


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## oldmittens

I think it's time I went to the store.


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## Almostrecovered

Buy me some


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## oldmittens

I'll FedEx it to you lol


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## lordmayhem

His last log in was May 8 and his last post was April 24 and was trying to get his WW served. So he is at least on the site but not giving updates on his situation.

I fear he's still in limbo, just as HurtinginTN stayed in limbo for a long time.


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## LongWalk

> Originally Posted by Decimated View Post
> I married her because she was honest, caring, funny, and smart. We had similar taste in everything…and she had a gorgeous face and a stunning body…and I loved her. She was everything I always wanted in a woman and partner. We were married for 16 years. She was never one to wear her heart on her sleeve which I thought was OK. Actually I always thought she was a good balance. I never found myself avoiding her in fact, the opposite was true. I knew I could spend the rest of my life with her…and wanted to.
> 
> Did she change…unfortunately yes! After her parents died she became a different person…sort of a mid-life crisis. Gone was the honest and caring person I married. The woman that replaced her was still stunning to look at but honesty and integrity was nowhere to be found. Within 3 years she had managed to destroy what was a very good marriage by stealing, lying and cheating.
> 
> Some folks want their spouse to change. In my case, I was happy with who she was.


How did you finally manage to divorce? She opposed that for a very long time. Did she keep in contact with OM he during R?

What does she do today? Is functioning at a higher level? Does she manage to work?

Sorry if answered these questions elsewhere already. Your original main thread just ends.


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