# The Phantom Boyfriend/mid life Crisis



## gabster555

The Phantom Boyfriend/ Mid Life Crisis

I’ve been married for 12 years and the first 11 years were fantastic….well I believed they were. She had a traumatic event, her best friend died, which she blames herself. This has led to a mid life crisis. She came across a 23 year old boy and stared to text,call and fb message him. Mainly my wife, was pursuing the relationship more so that the boy. When I found out, I became unglued and did become insecure. I made a big deal and got the family involved. My wife calls him her best friend and refers to call him her bestie. But its more that just a best friend. When he is depressed, she becomes depressed. She cries for him……..she has so much feeling for him. I used the word obsessed; my wife uses the word attached. I have 4 children and even my eldest daughter of 15 says she acting as if she is 18…. She has had 4 surgeries and is looking hot. I’ve over reacted lots of times since January. I see her living a dual life style. One with me and the 4 kids and the other with this boy. Our house has been affected. I have been affected.

I came to the conclusion I’m going to put an end to this madness and told my wife no more contacting this boy and I went over to the boys house and lost it with him and through some punches at him (which I’m not happy with myself) and told him no more contact. He said that my wife was the one who was pushing the relationship more that I and I believe him. 

Did I do the right think……. or should I let my wife have her bestie?

One her last text.......... 
Attached to him yes
love him as my bestie yes
Love chatting with him yes
In love with him No
because I'm in love with you but you can't accept that...

Yet we are fighting and I'm in marriage hell because of this boy???


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## blueskies30

If my husband was talking to another woman like this, I would be very upset as well. I think she has an unhealthy friendship with this boy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

_She has had 4 surgeries and is looking hot_

This is what it's all about for him.

What do they talk/text about? Can you give us an example?

How often do they talk/text? How many texts per month? How many minutes/hours per day talking? Do they see each other face-to-face? How often and how long? What hours of the day/night?

Does she put talking/texting/seeing him ahead of family activities?

At 23, you can be a boy or a man. Which is he? Does he have a full-time job and live on his own or still live with parents?

What do the other people your wife knows think about it? Her parents and family? Her friends? Your family? Or is it a secret from them? If it's a secret from everyone, why?

Does the 23yo have a girlfriend?


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## Catherine602

This is an affair and should be treated like one. You did the right thing by demanding that she stop contacting him. She is in a fog if she thinks you have to tolerate this. 

She is making a shambles of the lives of her children and loving husband. You have to let her know she is going to lose it all. 

You have to have boundaries. If she persist in contacting him then she cannot stay married. Is he is important enough to abandon her family? 

Read up on how to handle a cheating spouse and follow through.


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## brokenbloke

Not to get hung up on semantics but she is in an affair or shortly will be. The semantics don't matter, what does is that this relationship is entirely inappropriate. Time to bust it up. Be firm, set boundaries with consequences, and stick to your guns. She'll either wake up and see what's she's doing is wrong or she'll be mad at you for "interfering." Either way, it's necessary or this will only get worse.

Also, evaluate your own marriage. Are you emotionally and otherwise engaged with her? What is this guy providing her that you are not? Probably want to get some MC after getting him out of the picture.


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## TDSC60

Definitely an emotional affair and if they meet on a regular basis for "lunch" or "coffee" it could definitely be a physical affair. She looks hot and she is looking for validation from a young man. If you believe she is the one doing the chasing, she is looking for more.

She is ignoring your concerns and your anguish. She is replacing you with him and your marriage with her relationship with him. No way can you let this continue. She has checked out of the marriage and is chasing other men - not just new friends.

I truly believe you have to lay down the law. Give her a choice. Him or you - and you have to mean it and follow through. If she refuses to give him up, you have your answer and you should file divorce paper. Sometimes this will shock a wayward back to reality if they haven't gone too far already.

If she calls you controlling, which she probably will, just tell her that you are not trying to control her - the choice is hers - but if she chooses him - then you are gone.

Good luck. It suck to have three people involved in a marriage.


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## Halien

gabster555 said:


> Yet we are fighting and I'm in marriage hell because of this boy???


I think you need to stop making it out to be something that a little boy is doing. It is your wife that is cheating on you. By going after this boy, and making it about him, can you imagine how this looks to your wife, who is already in love with him? Now she has two little boys chasing her. Deal with her, because if you dissassociate the blame from her, you'll sweep it under the rug when the boy is out of the equation and the real betrayal could haunt you for years.

If you really focus your outrage on how your wife can be pursuing an affair with someone who is young enough to date your children, and always treat it like something that she should be ashamed of, you'll be more effective than actually treating it like the other boy is the problem. Just my opinion.

You have far more persuasive power over dealing with this than you would if he was close to your age. Use it.


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## bryanp

If the roles were reversed would you wife put up with such humiliation and disrespect from you? She does not respect you or your family whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will.

In addition, No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Time to contact an attorney to understand your options. Enough is enough!


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## Count of Monte Cristo

gabster555 said:


> One her last text..........
> Attached to him yes
> love him as my bestie yes
> Love chatting with him yes
> In love with him No
> because I'm in love with you but you can't accept that...


Sounds like your wife is in luuuvvv with her bestie. What grown woman refers to another man (and trust me at 23 he's a man) as her bestie?

She may say that she's in love with you but her actions says otherwise.


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## gabster555

I started this thread in the General Relationship Discussion and it was recommended to take it to Coping with Infidelity just as member humanbeing said. I like to believe that I’m wrong….please someone say to be I’m wrong. But without knowing everything I know you guys can’t do that 100%.
This is my wife’s view. I’m insecure, unsociable, boring doesn’t want to experience life, prefer to sat than happy….negative than positive…..unsociable than socialable. There is some truth in want is said, but does it give the right to what my wife has done. The correct path would of being marriage councilling or telling it to my face instead of 12 years later.
My wife believes I’ve made an ass out of myself. I’ve labeled my wife a ***** and the boy a family wrecker. Not only that the boy is a nephew on my wife’s side and this is going to lead to family conflict
To answer member Will Kanes ..question. They text/talk about anything and everthing. They talk about his problems her problems. They cry about there problems. They talk about mutual interest…..movies…songs……. At the beginning of their friendship, they talk throughout the day. When I found out and became unglued, they backed of but continued. My wife stopped telling me…..thinking I’m just going to become unglued and blow it out of proportion. They only seen each other 3 times or so since January. The boy lives and works with his family. Lazy ass….doesn’t do much. No girlfriend, just ****s prositutes. Internal family knows but see my wife as a ***** and and me as some bad crazy man, who has no control over his wife.
I told my wife to look up emotional affair. We argued…..I lelt the house…..at Starbucks. She said that she read about emotional affairs and that they is nothing there…..nothing what so ever


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## gabster555

I've never heard of bestie...buts its used by the british for best friend


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## gabster555

Divorce will kill her parents.....not an option 95% sure...... her had is already having chest complains and was taken to the doctor yesterday.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

gabster555 said:


> Divorce will kill her parents.....not an option 95% sure...... her had is already having chest complains and was taken to the doctor yesterday.


Divorce should ALWAYS be an option. It may be the only thing that saves your marriage.

As far as her parents, while you care for them, you are not responsible for how they react to the breakup of your marriage. Your wife is.

If you are happy being a cuckold and not respecting yourself then stick with the status quo. Just saying...


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## Remains

Blimey, what a mess! Take the advice and ask your wife how she would feel if there was a role reversal. If she is ok, that tells you exactly how she feels about you.


As a side note, do you need help? (she obviously does! But this is not her thread, so I will talk to you about your problems that you hope for advice on, and good advice you have had already, so I won't repeat) Help to make yourself feel better about yourself, more confident, happier? Are you as she says...unsociable, boring, glass half empty? I don't condone or accept her actions whatsoever, but I was with a guy who was all that once upon a time. It was difficult. He was a lovely, decent man. People liked him, he was great. But his own hang ups got in the way. I was always outgoing and sociable and wanted to be around others, he was always negative. Hang ups from his past. He has never got over them. A lovely man, he would do anything for anyone, deserves a good life, but he made it so he did not. He will not accept his problems need addressing...he just accepts his problems. He is not a happy man. But he is a lovely one. So this it is a terrible shame. If he had got help for his problems that made him so unhappy he would be a different man.


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## Machiavelli

A 23 yr old who has to pay for sex? I saw that movie once, "The Omega Man."


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## gabster555

Thank you Remains......I've taken my first steps to overcome my own issues. I have realized I choose to be grumpy...sad.... and boring...I control my own happiness. I think I got worse when I gained weight. I was less happy with myself. I was 223 lbs at my heaviest. In 6 months I've dropped it down to 190 lbs. I'm socialable outside the house but need to find new friends.....and not be in my wife's armpits 24/7. I've sort of lost my identify or being walked over by my wife for a long time. I made no effort to make new friends outside my family and life.....because I always had my wife as my best friend. But I'm learning and will continue to improve because I want to. I control my state of mind in life.


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## Kallan Pavithran

gabster555 said:


> Divorce will kill her parents.....not an option 95% sure...... her had is already having chest complains and was taken to the doctor yesterday.




Are you living for yourself and for the well being of the children or for your inlaws? If for yourself and children then divorce is the best option. Throw her out of the house, let she choose between your family and OM. If she choose OM then let she go else she should act as a married lady and stop all contact with OM. She cant have cake and eat it too.


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## bandit.45

Your marriage is falling apart, the wife is in an incestuous relationship with her nephew, and you're worried you might kill your father in law if you divorce her? Well hell, guess you might as well go on getting sh*t on. You have learned to take the blame for her on all fronts haven't you. 

Look, grow up, act like a man and level some heavy consequences against her. At the very least do the 180.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

Am I the only one who's happy he punched that little sh*t out? Sorry, but I'm just proud of him!


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## bandit.45

sandc said:


> Am I the only one who's happy he punched that little sh*t out? Sorry, but I'm just proud of him!


It did nothing but turn the kid into a martyr and make him look like a bully. He just gave her another cartridge for her gun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo

bandit.45 said:


> It did nothing but turn the kid into a martyr and make him look like a bully. He just gave her another cartridge for her gun.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I agree Bandit. His rage is misdirected.

(30th post. I'm now a member and belong to a club that I never wanted to be a part of.)


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## jnj express

Leave your wife's nephew alone---you didn't take vows with him

Your beef is with your wife

All I read on here is excuse after excuse for every F'ing thing in the book

Stop the BS, and take some action----your wife isn't gonna back off/do anything, unless forced to

Midlife crisis, whatever else, are all her excuses for continuing to talk to her newphew----one of these days the talk will stop, and the sex will begin, if it already hasn't----and your whole situation is gonna become a nuclear winter

You may love her and have no intention of leaving her at this point, and she knows this, and won't stop----she is just plain out defying you, and dissing you

You must take HARSH ACTION, to force her to stop, if that doesn't work---well then you really do know where you stand

Take away her phone, take away he computer use---take away her money, take away her vehicle if she has one, take away her CC's, put all finances in an acct with your name on the acct, only---------make her see reality, you need to seriously threaten her little sexcapade, and you better not wait to long in taking some kind of action---if you don't act, you very well may not like the results of your inaction, and excusing!!!!!


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## gabster555

Thank you guys for your comments. All comments are valued by me.

Sandc....Thankyou for your words....I gave him a kick to the face that almost knocked him out..UFC style. I may of broke a small foot toe...not sure...not able to bent middle toe in foot

I'm 99% sure there has been no sexual contact with my wife and the 23 year old boy. This is an emotional affair. My marriage is failing. My wife when we do fight slams in my face, I have never given a f*** about her in the 11 years of marriage, yet I felt we had a blast.

Bandit, I like to think that that I haven't learned to take the blame for her on all fronts....but there may be some truth to what you say. Planning to do 180 on her. I am worried that I made the OM into a martyr and gave my wife another cartridge for her gun.

Jnj express...Thank you for your comments....Most of your comments may be spot on but your recommendations are too harsh and I have seriously threaten her little sexcapade


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## gabster555

First of all thank you to all those who me gave me some feedback. What I’m looking for is unbiased help. I stopped myself from ranting and going on how my wife is bad…… and just tried to paint a picture of what’s going on.
I know that my wife is reached a crisis point in her life…..her 4 surgeries…..her vicodin addition….. she complains about anxiety, depression, overwhelmed with emotions, mood swings, her blaming herself for the death of the best friend. Part of my wife must be thinking if she didn’t push for the last surgery then her best friend would not had it and her best friend must still be here.
This is her second marriage. She first got married at 18, and it was good for 3 years max and fell apart. Since 18, she put herself through college, had two/three part time jobs and was a mother. My eldest in my step daughter. She met me two years later got married very quickly…too quicky and popped out one kid after the other at a rate of one every two 1/2 years apart.
My wife has said to me that she has been put on the back burner for the whole marriage. She says that I haven’t given a f.. about her. It’s always being about the kids. I keyed the term package deal and she has bought it up multiple times. She feels she hasn’t been valued at all… and now it’s her time.
I accept my faults and wished she was able to tell me to my face….I’ve been this was ,but she hasn’t . I’ve been a great father but a crap husband. 
But does all that has happened to my wife, excuse what she is going with this boy? Has she crossed the boundaries of marriage? The boy was caught by the police for prostitution. I found out that he has used prostitutes at least 4 times. Yet my wife refused to see this bad side of her best friend
The have never thrown a punch, since I was 14. I threw some punches and a kick to the face. My wife knows this and is waiting for me to tell her. There is no physical damage to him. 
I can accept my wife having contact with a boy. The can text….call each other….whatever…..but they crossed a line. They talk to each other 12 min night…..1am 2am and 3 am. My wife will wake up and immediately check her Facebook. I have made it clearly to stop contact after 9 PM. Everytime I contact the boy….and told him what ever…sure enough my wife know…he couldn’t keep a secret from her. The boy has said to my wife that he would die without having contact we her. 
I went to his home informing the older uncle I’m coming over. I wanted to tell him to his face once and for all….this end now…. I asked him to load his FB and started reading what my wife was saying to him….but within a few minute he pressed something making all the messages vanish…..that’s when I lost it and threw some punches and a kick.
Divorce for her is not the table. Her father and mom know everything. The boy is a nephew. The family will meet up at some time….
Your feed back please


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## snap

So you are OK with her communicating with affair partner? Yeah, that sure will end well..


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## sandc

bandit.45 said:


> It did nothing but turn the kid into a martyr and make him look like a bully. He just gave her another cartridge for her gun.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So I guess the answer is yes. 

That's why I'm not a therapist.


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## sandc

The feedback has already been given. You already know what has been suggested and they are all good suggestions. If you don't take those suggestions then buy a big box of condoms. Give some to the nephew and keep some for yourself. You guys just share her until she dumps you.

I get the whole "keeping face" and "not wanting to bring shame on your family" thing. But what about YOUR family? It's as simple as this: YOUR dojo, YOUR rules.


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## Entropy3000

gabster555 said:


> Thank you guys for your comments. All comments are valued by me.
> 
> Sandc....Thankyou for your words....I gave him a kick to the face that almost knocked him out..UFC style. I may of broke a small foot toe...not sure...not able to bent middle toe in foot
> 
> I'm 99% sure there has been no sexual contact with my wife and the 23 year old boy. This is an emotional affair. My marriage is failing. My wife when we do fight slams in my face, I have never given a f*** about her in the 11 years of marriage, yet I felt we had a blast.
> 
> Bandit, I like to think that that I haven't learned to take the blame for her on all fronts....but there may be some truth to what you say. Planning to do 180 on her. I am worried that I made the OM into a martyr and gave my wife another cartridge for her gun.
> 
> Jnj express...Thank you for your comments....Most of your comments may be spot on but your recommendations are too harsh and I have seriously threaten her little sexcapade


He is not 15 years old boy. This is a 23 year old man who is after your wife.
Calling him a boy changes nothing. Why you would be ok with her communicationg with this man, I have no idea. at all. How about a 40 year old good ole boy?


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## Unsure in Seattle

The feedback is that you're allowing a 3rd person in your marriage.

Don't you find that unacceptable?

You need to tell her (and mean it) that it's "him or me." You take divorce off of the table out of hand, but what's the alternative?


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## gabster555

Its been one whole week, since I went to the OM and told him to stop. It was interesting how the other man said, my wife was the one chasing the friendship more than he was. It was interesting how the OM said my wife was the one who said “thank you for saying that. No one has ever said that to me” at the beginning of the EA. It was wrong for the OM to say “he will die, if he can’t talk to my wife”. It was wrong of my wife to demote me to 2nd position in her life. It was wrong of my wife to say things like they were friends/together in a previous life and will be in the next. My wife was wrong to say she doesn’t care what anyone else thinks about….we will remain besties for life and their after.

Since confronting the OM, my wife believes I have made an ass out of myself and the family. My wife has been labeled as a ***** and I as some of unstable, paranoid, insecure husband. My wife no longer sleeps with me and wants little to do with me. I’m choosing to be positive about myself and choose how to life my life….. with a positive attitude. I will continue to work on what I consider my areas of development, be in social or personal

Let see how my wife continues.

The friendship with the OM and my wife has never being sexual. They have not being sexting or texting about wanting sex with each other. She has spent an immense amount of time, energy and feeling to the OM that me, which was wrong,…I see that clearly. When you give your emotional heart/love to someone else that means you are also taking it away from the spouse. My W doesn’t see that.


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## bandit.45

gabster555 said:


> Divorce for her is not the table. Her father and mom know everything. The boy is a nephew. The family will meet up at some time….
> Your feed back please


So she refuses to divorce you, or to just initiate the divorce so she can blame it on you?


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## bandit.45

gabster555 said:


> The friendship with the OM and my wife has never being sexual. They have not being sexting or texting about wanting sex with each other. She has spent an immense amount of time, energy and feeling to the OM that me, which was wrong,…I see that clearly. When you give your emotional heart/love to someone else that means you are also taking it away from the spouse. My W doesn’t see that.


Matters not... any amount of attention she is giving to him and not to you is an Emotional Affair. He has replaced you as her confidant. 

Your marriage is toast. Cut your losses and divorce her. Who cares what she says about you? Everyone on both sides of the conflict, who matter to the situation, knows the score. What are you so worried about?


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## sandc

gabster555 said:


> The friendship with the OM and my wife has never being sexual. They have not being sexting or texting about wanting sex with each other. She has spent an immense amount of time, energy and feeling to the OM that me, which was wrong,…I see that clearly. When you give your emotional heart/love to someone else that means you are also taking it away from the spouse. My W doesn’t see that.


This is how it begins. When a woman is this emotionally connected to a man she ultimately finds it easy to connect sexually. It is only a matter of time. Dozens of men on this forum can provide supporting evidence of this fact.


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## Beowulf

You have two choices. File for divorce and hope that jolts her into reality. Or do nothing and allow them to resume their relationship. It will go physical. How do you think the family will react when they have to deal with her incestuous behavior?


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## gabster555

My wife has defriended me on FB. She still says she is married, but removed my name. We will play a wait and see to see if the marriage is toast…. I don’t disagree how EA start…….but since I’ve put a stop to it and both sides of the family are aware…..I don’t see the EA going to a sexual PA affair. But we will wait and see. I’m east Indian. I can never see it going sexual….never…… Will it go to the divorce….who know……..?


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## bandit.45

gabster555 said:


> I’m east Indian. I can never see it going sexual….never…… Will it go to the divorce….who know……..?


East Indians don't commit adultery? Wow.


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## Beowulf

bandit.45 said:


> East Indians don't commit adultery? Wow.


If Morrigan ever cheats on me again I know now where I'll look for my next wife.


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## OldWolf57

you asked for feedback, but reject it. Hey you are married to a MILF, thats why the operations, and saved the crap about boys, this is no boy. he is 23yrs old, chasing a MILF. you won't D her, then learn to be married to a HOTWIFE, now google that. and compromise it with your image of being a man !!!!!


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## gabster555

Don’t mean to be a condescending… or think that East Indian people don’t have affairs. But its less likely. Looking back and reflecting…it is a silly statement.

My wife went crazy. The OM de/friended her...then freinded her and then blocked her. I saw on their facebook they are now friends again from this morning.

I punched/kicked beat up the OM....made it clear to stop talking...texting...messaging my wife. I stopped short of asking the OM to defriend my wife on facebook.

WTF.........???

My wife is some crazy mentally obsessed attached *****


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## Count of Monte Cristo

gabster555 said:


> Don’t mean to be a condescending… or think that East Indian people don’t have affairs. But its less likely. Looking back and reflecting…it is a silly statement.
> 
> My wife went crazy. The OM de/friended her...then freinded her and then blocked her. I saw on their facebook they are now friends again from this morning.
> 
> I punched/kicked beat up the OM....made it clear to stop talking...texting...messaging my wife. I stopped short of asking the OM to defriend my wife on facebook.
> 
> WTF.........???
> 
> My wife is some crazy mentally obsessed attached *****


You're lucky he didn't call the cops on you. In fact, he may very well do so at a future date.

Your problem is with your wife. Are you going to punch and kick her too? I hope not.

You can't force another person to love you. If she won't respect her marriage then you have no choice but to end it.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Try to calm down.

Your wife is not crazy, she's addicted.

Do some research into addiction, its going to stun you when you see how her behavior mirrors that of a drug addict. She is no different. Crack, Cocaine, Crystal Meth... They all effect the brain exactly the same way as this addiction does. They both activate the dopamine system and the reward pathways of the brain. The obsessive drug seeking behaviors are exactly the same, the withdrawl and the cravings are exactly the same. 

Your wife is a chemical dependant and he is your wife's needle.

Do some homework, you might consider adjusting your approach.

What your doing is now is banging your head against a wall you will not break.


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## Beowulf

gabster,

Click the link at the bottom of Pit's post that says Never say Never - The Fog. He explains it the best way I have ever heard. You need to approach this like an addiction. Stop enabling the addict.


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## gabster555

Pit....thank you for comments and Beowulf I did read Pis post. I need to read it again and again to truly understand what is being said.

Yesterday was a interesting day. My wife mood changed from *****ing and crying and being withdrawn to almost normal. My wife and the OM became friends again on FB and i'm sure she sent him a message, so she got a little of a dopamine release. I noticed the change... Last night I messaged the OM and said de-friend my wife. No texting/messaging/e-mailing allowed he said "done". In the morning she came down....asking did you tell him to de-friend me. I said yes. She became unglued..........she said all sorts of thinks....I mainly just listened and observed her. She talked about all thinks that came through her head. Her father not still not well...taken back and saying to her "I never imagine you collapsing like this, if you collapse..what will happen to us." my wife being dis-respected...not valued.

I messaged the OM back and asked him to friend my wife again and apologized for hitting him/beating him up.

My wife wanted me to say

" I will give you permission to be in touch with you aunt as long as you remember my guidelines...ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT AFTER 9PM. I'm not going to get in you face or say anything to your parents. That's a promise. I lose my wife if I do and I'm not willing to take that risk!" 

I told my wife that don't fool yourself. If I don't see us working...we are finished....and I will end the marriage.

She comes back with...stop analyzing what he is doing on a daily basis n we can actually move forwards....and to my reference of ending the marriage...if that's what you want. I came back with "we see what happens"

my Wife continue to say "I guess you still want to be big n bad n still not let us talk??? so my theory of unless you're ****ing me your not happy is correct! and there's no point in opening n talking to you. Let me carry my life as a hermit... Talking about me n saying re-friend my wife...am I your territory???"

Your thoughts please..


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## bandit.45

Man she has you trained well. 

Good job of putting your foot down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo

That's like telling a drunk he can drink anytime but after 9PM.

This will not end well.


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## gabster555

There has been awakening in my marriage. My wife wants to be super socialable all the time and tells me that all I want is to be in the house all the time. We are totally opposites. According to my wife, the marriage has been a very controlling exercise where I have dictating the terms of marriage. I disagree. My wife has lived with this type of life style and when she met the OM, she found the escape key from the prison-ed marriage. The OM is a release value to a poor marriage. 

To cope with life and our marriage, she re-sorts to talking to the OM. It's not sexual, it's was an EA, and a release value to a horrible marriage. It's not a EA anymore because its being exposed & families from both sides are aware and I have stopped the dopamine rush. I've blown things out of proportion. Our marriage needs help more than anything. As a couple we need to come together and rekindle our love to get this marriage working.

your thoughts please


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## Chaparral

It would not do any good because she is totally in love with him. But, ask her why she would give up her marriage for him if she were not in love with him.


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## bandit.45

gabster555 said:


> your thoughts please


You are deluding yourself. 

Step out of the fog and see this affair for what it is. Your wife has no respect for you. There is no foundation upon which to rebuild your marriage. Either move towards divorce, or learn to swallow it and let her continue on cheating with another man. Your choice.


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## Beowulf

gabster555 said:


> Pit....thank you for comments and Beowulf I did read Pis post. I need to read it again and again to truly understand what is being said.
> 
> Yesterday was a interesting day. My wife mood changed from *****ing and crying and being withdrawn to almost normal. My wife and the OM became friends again on FB and i'm sure she sent him a message, so she got a little of a dopamine release. I noticed the change... Last night I messaged the OM and said de-friend my wife. No texting/messaging/e-mailing allowed he said "done". In the morning she came down....asking did you tell him to de-friend me. I said yes. She became unglued..........she said all sorts of thinks....I mainly just listened and observed her. She talked about all thinks that came through her head. Her father not still not well...taken back and saying to her "I never imagine you collapsing like this, if you collapse..what will happen to us." my wife being dis-respected...not valued.
> 
> I messaged the OM back and asked him to friend my wife again and apologized for hitting him/beating him up.
> 
> My wife wanted me to say
> 
> " I will give you permission to be in touch with you aunt as long as you remember my guidelines...ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT AFTER 9PM. I'm not going to get in you face or say anything to your parents. That's a promise. I lose my wife if I do and I'm not willing to take that risk!"
> 
> I told my wife that don't fool yourself. If I don't see us working...we are finished....and I will end the marriage.
> 
> She comes back with...stop analyzing what he is doing on a daily basis n we can actually move forwards....and to my reference of ending the marriage...if that's what you want. I came back with "we see what happens"
> 
> my Wife continue to say "I guess you still want to be big n bad n still not let us talk??? so my theory of unless you're ****ing me your not happy is correct! and there's no point in opening n talking to you. Let me carry my life as a hermit... Talking about me n saying re-friend my wife...am I your territory???"
> 
> Your thoughts please..


The only thing you have done is back yourself into a corner.

If you do not follow up on your promise of divorce you are now weaker than ever in her eyes and she has no reason o listen to you or work it out. If you do follow up on your promise of divorce you have steered the ship in that direction and cannot change course without hitting an iceberg.

Edit: After reading your second comment in post #47 I stand by my answer above with even more conviction.


----------



## t_hopper_2012

gabster555 said:


> There has been awakening in my marriage. My wife wants to be super socialable all the time and tells me that all I want is to be in the house all the time. We are totally opposites. According to my wife, the marriage has been a very controlling exercise where I have dictating the terms of marriage. I disagree. My wife has lived with this type of life style and when she met the OM, she found the escape key from the prison-ed marriage. The OM is a release value to a poor marriage.
> 
> To cope with life and our marriage, she re-sorts to talking to the OM. It's not sexual, it's was an EA, and a release value to a horrible marriage. It's not a EA anymore because its being exposed & families from both sides are aware and I have stopped the dopamine rush. I've blown things out of proportion. Our marriage needs help more than anything. As a couple we need to come together and rekindle our love to get this marriage working.
> 
> your thoughts please


After reading your posts again, it does not sound like you have blown things out of proportion. It sounds like she was way outside the bounds of what would be considered emotionally acceptable in a marriage. I don't understand why contact until 9pm is allowed. They can be just as emotionally inappropriate at 2pm as they can at 2am.

I don't feel that she's committed toward making the marriage work. (Look how upset she got when she found out you forced the nephew to de-friend her). Instead, she's doing just enough to keep you happy and, therefore, to keep the rest of her family off her back.

You may have weakened your position a little by wavering, but you can still insist on NC as a condition toward working for R in the marriage. If she throws the "controlling" label at you, you can simply agree. "Yes, I am controlling you to the extent that I am forbidding you to have further contact with your EA partner."

Once you've taken this position ... Don't. Back. Down.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

gabster555 said:


> To cope with life and our marriage, she re-sorts to talking to the OM. It's not sexual, it's was an EA, and a release value to a horrible marriage. *It's not a EA anymore because its being exposed & families from both sides are aware and I have stopped the dopamine rush*. I've blown things out of proportion. Our marriage needs help more than anything. As a couple we need to come together and rekindle our love to get this marriage working.



Dayummm!! You need to bottle that cure for the dopamine rush. You could make a fortune. I know that I would've bought several bottles from you.

If you think you've stop the dopamine rush you are seriously deluding yourself. She's getting it everytime she has contact with him.


----------



## jnj express

She is still in an A----family knows, so what----she doesn't necessarily live her life for her family---she lives it for herself

Let me ask you something---when you took your vows---was there anything in there---ANYTHING, about mge., having 3 people ---Mge., is composed of 2 and TWO ONLY---If there are problems to be discussed---you are the one she needs to work things out with

A NORMAL MARRIED SPOUSE, does not spend hours talking to another person---especially a woman in her 40's talking to a man in his 20's---THEY DON'T EVEN F"ING THINK ALIKE---their outlooks on things have a 20 yr age gap in them

Once again you may not wanna read this---but your wife needs to be NC---it needs to be enforced as of yesterday---and if she doesn't like it, ask her how she would like fending for herself, as in SINGLE D. WOMAN---that's they way you get these things stopped/ended.


----------



## Almostrecovered

It really boils down to this-

let her go and let her do what she wants

but that doesn't mean you don't present hard consequences if she continues to stray outside the marriage


I highly recommend that you go get a lawyer and get some papers drawn

present her the papers and tell her that you have no desire to control her and she is free to do as she wishes, however, you are also free to make your own choices and if she does not not stop contacting OM that you are filing the papers you have in your hand. You then stop paying for her lifestyle and take out your half of the money in shared accounts and run the 180.

If she wishes to snap out of it and agree to NC then you present the following conditions for R and for you to stop the D proceedings-

1) NO CONTACT whatsoever, none, nada, zilch, zippo
she writes a NC letter and if he ever contacts her she must ignore it and tell you of it right away. 
2) 100% transparency- all passwords and phone access are given freely, she tells you of her whereabouts as well. And without telling her you should be verifying her actions thru spy tech like keyloggers, gps and VAR's.
3) She shows complete remorse. She stops the rewriting of the marriage (blameshifting) and takes the full blame of the affair. She does what is necessary for you to heal.
4) You spend 10-15 hours a week of one on one time to rebond.


I know you are afraid of being so hard nosed but any other way only extends the affair and makes it more likely for her to cake eat and the marriage will die anyways.


----------



## OldWolf57

now they don't have to hide, now she gets her fix, and you ok'd it. And don't tell me about east indian, my granddaughter is half. My XDIL is from Trindad, I have friend from India, and Bangladesh. A man is man, a man in the fog is you.


----------



## OldWolf57

well at lease he won't be getting arrested for her.


----------



## gabster555

So the OM has blocked my wife, me and our eldest daughter from facebook. There is no more contact from him to my wife or me.

Its my sons birthday today and my wife came down and started a rampage going on “do you know how embarrassing it is to be blocked on facebook….its a slap in the face…and continues on the lines of “are you happy now…stopping me from talking to someone I can be at ease with and talk openly with” “do you know what a big mess you have made” “do you know what the wider implications are” and texted me “F*** you for humiliating me once again”. Yet my children are down stairs and eating breakfast. She even went on to say “to hell with you and the OM” or something to that effect.

My wife has always said and she is not in love with the OM…..but was ranting about divorcing me this morning. I refused to be dragged into a verbal fight this morning and my wife was getting even more upset with me that I wasn’t saying anything back. I went as for as to say “I’m listening”.

Some members of the forum like bandit call for me to divorce my wife, my wife not having any respect for me….the marriage having no foundation upon to rebuild my marriage. But I have to consider my 4 children. The smallest is 5 and my eldest is 15. The OM is not in the picture…my wife is mega upset…..does in matter is I start the divorce now or 6 months from now. As of today there is no contact from the OM.

If my wife continues to have the EA with the OM or finds another….does it matter. I have seen my wife for what she is. I have a clearer understanding of my marriage for what it is. I have come to an understanding. 

There has never been sex or any words in the EA saying never….“I want you…I think of you all the time…I want to have sex with you. My husband doesn’t understand me” or anything like that. They talk about ****….. It is correct that to much time was spent with the OM and not with me…..and she was happier talking to him than me.

Jnj express thank you for the comments….I believe from today there is no contact with the OM. 

Almostrecovered….thank you for your comments. I struggle with the concept….is my wife having an EO or is it escaping from a bad marriage feeling controlled, not being respected or appreciated in marriage Is it a medical imbalance? While having the 4 surgeries, she was on liquid vicadin and has that changed her mind set? From 2009 to 2012 my wife has been on and off liquid vicadin……. 
Is my wife having an EA?????? I don’t know of should say not sure. Sex was never there…in the mindset.

It’s up to wife and me to get back together or not. A marriage is between two people not three.

Oldwolf57 said I’m in the fog. Could someone explain that in a very simple way for me.

Your comments please.


----------



## Almostrecovered

gabster555 said:


> Almostrecovered….thank you for your comments. I struggle with the concept….is my wife having an EO or is it escaping from a bad marriage feeling controlled, not being respected or appreciated in marriage Is it a medical imbalance? While having the 4 surgeries, she was on liquid vicadin and has that changed her mind set? From 2009 to 2012 my wife has been on and off liquid vicadin…….
> Is my wife having an EA?????? I don’t know of should say not sure. Sex was never there…in the mindset.



there are always "factors" behind the desire to cheat, I'm sure the chemical imbalance of the meds plays into it but it is in no way an excuse.

and just because they dont discuss sex or plan to have sex doesn't mean that this isn't an affair. She's clearly addicted to the attention and it is very clearly damaging the marriage to a high degree. The reaction of OM blocking her is a classic cheater reaction to exposure, she's desperate now that she can't get her EA fix. She will be like that for some time until her head clears, but NC has to be a choice on her own (and transparency and remorse) eventually for your marriage to continue.


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## gabster555

Almostrecovered.

just for the record.....I told the OM to de-friend my wife. I did apologize to him about losing control and hitting him. The OM then blocked me...my wife and my eldest daughter...who had nothing to do with him.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I understand that there is NC now, but your wife needs to want to do that on her own and go back to you to save the marriage before you can begin R


----------



## gabster555

That's were the problem lies. To my wife, its all about saving her image. "What must the OM family be thinking"......"how can I face them". "You have humiliated me" My wife portrays me as the crazy person, overreacting, striker and hitting/beating the OM. Telling her mom you can't stop an aunt talking to the nephew.... and I being slowly broken down by this type of thinking....and I'm second guessing myself...maybe I got this all wrong...... have I??????


----------



## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> That's were the problem lies. To my wife, its all about saving her image. "What must the OM family be thinking"......"how can I face them". "You have humiliated me" My wife portrays me as the crazy person, overreacting, striker and hitting/beating the OM. Telling her mom you can't stop an aunt talking to the nephew.... and I being slowly broken down by this type of thinking....and I'm second guessing myself...maybe I got this all wrong...... have I??????


How many people have to say it for you to believe it? No, her communications with him are NOT normal and are entirely inappropriate due to age, station in life, family relations, marital relations, the list goes on and on.

Her angry reaction just shows how emotionally attached she is to him.

She clearly knows how to manipulate you.

You need to come at this from a different way. Have you read His Needs / Her Needs or the 5 Love Languages? Both have websites with questionnaires to fill out. This is a way to show her you are serious about changing whatever it is in the marriage that needs to be changed.

But be careful about throwing pearls before a swine. The 5 Love Languages worked for our marriage because my husband was serious about wanting to restore it after fully ending his emotional affair. 

Your wife is still either delusional (trying to fool herself into thinking this was all innocent) or more likely she is 'gaslighting' you. (The term comes from the movie Gaslight, where a husband does all kinds of little tricks, including dimming the gaslights to make his wife think she is going insane.)


----------



## Almostrecovered

you need to understand that cheaters need to justify their affairs

that means they rewrite marital history
they make you the villain
they blame you for their choice to cheat
they state it was only just a friendship 
they claim you invade their privacy and you are obsessed
they flat out lie to you and others to the true nature of the affair


IOW- don't swallow that pill of horsesh!t

this is all typical fog talk of a wayward who is clinging at whatever they can to continue their affair


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

gabster555 said:


> Its my sons birthday today and my wife came down and started a rampage going on “do you know how embarrassing it is to be blocked on facebook….its a slap in the face…and continues on the lines of “are you happy now…stopping me from talking to someone I can be at ease with and talk openly with” “do you know what a big mess you have made” “do you know what the wider implications are” and texted me “F*** you for humiliating me once again”. Yet my children are down stairs and eating breakfast. She even went on to say “to hell with you and the OM” or something to that effect.


Did you listen to my suggestion to research addiction, and the behaviors?

The above is TEXTBOOK. She is not humiliated being blocked on facebook, you blocked her access to her drug. She will show extreme hostility, and engage in aggressive denial about her dependance. She will likely try to "prove her point" (to herself) by abstaining temporarily***. Meanwhile the pressure will build and the cravings will become worse until she breaks NC. Meanwhile, you are going to get painted as a monster.

***While she is doing this, expect some of these other emotional withdrawl symptoms.

•Anxiety
•Restlessness
•Irritability 
•Insomnia
•Headaches
•Poor concentration 
•Depression
•Social isolation


----------



## gabster555

Pit......... just how long will all this last for?


----------



## bandit.45

You still have a chance to turn this around. Take a stand now and follow the advice the other posters have provided. 

The link to the 180 is below this post. Do it. It works.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

gabster555 said:


> Pit......... just how long will all this last for?


till she breaks or breaks through (I bet my house it's the former). I dont know her. But it doesn't really matter "how long", this road your on is not the road to reconcilation. Your actions are cohersive now, that wont work for long. 

Other people in this thread are giving you good advice, your listening selectively or not at all. This is going to get really ugly gabster. You should listen and consider getting 100% on board. Based on what you've said this is _bad_ and your way over your head.


----------



## gabster555

Pit....till she(my wife) breaks......what does that mean in simple English?

So what is recommended by the forum is to start divorce procedures.

But do know how hard it is to think/accept that my wife is having an EA with a nephew?..... a lot of what been said does make sense. The marriage being horrible....me not caring about her...my wife justifying the EA.....


----------



## the guy

Starting the divorce procedures is just that a start. Its a tactic to show your wife there will be a consequence if she contiues. A statement that lets your WW know you won't tolorate her behavior and how serious you really are. 

The divorce will take a while to finalize and in that time you can only hope she realizes what she is about to lose and you can withdraw the filing.


----------



## gpa

Just follow the advise and do the 180. This is a way to understand, among otehr things, how your wife realy feels, how is she go to react and if she is in your M or not. You have to man up to prove yourself as a strong H who fights for his M and does not tolerate any kind of bs with ANY man out of the M. Yes y can start the divorce but always y can put it on hold. And remember there are no time limits for such things. Just take care of yourself be a good father and be a man all the way till the end.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

gabster555 said:


> Pit....till she(my wife) breaks......what does that mean in simple English?
> 
> So what is recommended by the forum is to start divorce procedures.
> 
> But do know how hard it is to think/accept that my wife is having an EA with a nephew?..... a lot of what been said does make sense. The marriage being horrible....me not caring about her...my wife justifying the EA.....


Her breaking means she will give in to her desire and find a way to continue getting her fix. 

BY

*A. *Getting you out of the picture and making you the bad guy. She has probably started that already. She's getting other people on board with her reality. Her "decision support group". Probably campaigning her lies and distorted reality to them so they support and endorse her leaving her evil husband. 

*B.* just finding another underground way to continue the relationship.

Listen man, your over thinking this because your in the middle of the sh*t. 

I'm reading what your saying. I'll tell you what looks crystal clear..

Your dealing with someone that has an addiction. I know it's easy to say step back and look at this, and much harder to do... I understand your confusion. Dealing with gaslighting and people with addictions is psychological warfare. Then you have the internal misdirection of feeling somehow responsible... 

You are in crisis, trusting yourself and your thoughts is tough.

I'm going to be honest and straight forward. This train is barreling down the tracks... I can't tell you if there is anything you can do to stop the outcome of whats going to happen. There are to many variables. But, It doesn't sound good. I do know what gives you the best chance, and it's to listen to these people. 

I would start arming yourself with knowledge so you can be confident what your hunting here... 

I don't care how many variables you switch around, I don't care if this relationship is with her dad, an alien, or a 2 headed unicorn... and I most certainly don't trust anything that comes out of her mouth about it. 

Go out and google as much as you can find about emotional affairs and you will see the feathers, then read about gaslighting and you will see it's webbed feet, then read about addiction and you will hear it quack... 

_“If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”
-Proverb_

This is a duck bro. She is addicted, your wife is emotionally invested in another man. It is an extra marital affair. Proceed accordingly.

There are a bunch of highly respected, and knowledgeable posters that have already become invested in your thread and have given you rock solid advice... I recommend you start listening to them and commit to a course of action.


----------



## Chaparral

gpa said:


> Just follow the advise and do the 180. This is a way to understand, among otehr things, how your wife realy feels, how is she go to react and if she is in your M or not. You have to man up to prove yourself as a strong H who fights for his M and does not tolerate any kind of bs with ANY man out of the M. Yes y can start the divorce but always y can put it on hold. And remember there are no time limits for such things. Just take care of yourself be a good father and be a man all the way till the end.


That may depend on divorce laws in OP's country.


----------



## iheartlife

A good book on emotional affairs is Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. You will see if you read this precisely why her relationship is inappropriate and how easy it is to second-guess yourself when your spouse is in an EA.

I will back up and say that for some reason, the posts in your thread are full of contradictions. As you've said, some are advocating filing for divorce; others are advocating the 180; and I advocated trying to show that you want to fix the marriage with 5 Love Languages and His Needs / Her Needs, although in order to do that she has to be present in the marriage and not in her EA. 

The reason I mentioned offering to work on the marriage is mostly (at this stage) to see what her reaction is to that idea, not because I think she's ready to do it. Have you offered that to her, to mutually as adults improve your marriage? If she rejects it, it's because she's still in the throes of her EA and must come out of the 'fog' of the EA before contemplating working on the marriage.

To get out of the fantasy, contact has to end. That is what feeds the EA and prevents her from being able to bond with you. She has to be out of contact for some time before the bonding effects start to lessen--at least 6 weeks or more.

In the meantime, start giving the 180 a try. Have you read about it yet, do you have any questions about it? The 180 prepares you to be the best person you can be. You will need it regardless of whether she stays or goes. It does have the side-effect of making you more attractive to your spouse. But doing the 180 to get your spouse back ironically defeats the purpose of the 180. It is confusing but there are lots of 180 advocates around here to walk you through it.


----------



## gabster555

Thank you guys for the help and support.

The way my wife is acting is exactly the way that Pit…was describing……….My wife continued to ask the question “what have I done” “has it made us any closer. She was blameshifting and gaslighting. I wasn’t falling for that and did my best to ignore her. My wife continues to use psychological warfare on me. 

The next morning…very much cold shoulder and same thing. 
Half way through the day, I wife calls me and said that her father had complains of blu vision and was taken to hospital. My farther in-law is experiencing the fall out of what is happening in my marriage. Something happened after that phone call. My wife starts to make call to me a little. Her hatred went away. That day, she told me she wants a pair of ladies pants and went on to say its…this and that….so I bought it for her along with a top and jacket…….I presented it to her and she say thank you and gave me a kiss(OMG). The top was a wrong size and so we went back to the store and exchanged it for the right size. After the exchange, we went to a shoes store, where my I bought my wife some shoes and bag to go with the new outfits. I wasn’t complaining….I was thinking money well spent…..maybe this is sort of therapy.

It was 8pm at night by the time we came home…..I ran upstairs to take a shower…..I was feeling tired and thinking of going to sleep. I wife came up and I heard her say……go out for a drink and appertizer. I said I be out in two minutes. I got out, quickly got dressed and said ok..lets go. While waiting for me, my wife looked up a bolleywood movie that she wanted to watch. We bought the tickets online and got a baby sitter and left to watch the movie. It was going to take us 1 hour and 15 minutes to the cinema. We spoke in the car a little, I went to hold her hand and she let me. We bought some stacks, watched the movie, I held her hand in the movie at the romantic songs part. We left, came home, didn’t speak much in the car. As soon as we came home, I went straight upstairs…moved any kids that were in my bedroom, closed my door and went to bed. About 10 minutes later, my wife comes in the room, got changed and climbed in my bed and snuggled up with me. It had been 10 day…or so…. And I took the lead and we made love….nothing crazy…it was 2 in the morning….but we did make love.

WTF happened here…..???


----------



## bandit.45

You took a stand, and she responded to your strength. Of course she could be just playing you to manipulate you, then again maybe she is sincere. Now you have to just stay strong and consistent... but vigilant. Your problems are not over yet, but maybe the two of you have turned a corner. Again, stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gabster555

I don’t know what happened…. 

The day before my wife and I connected, a friend of both my wife and I started to text me. I felt my wifes hand behind the text. I made it clear, if I have to I will divorce my wife. I also explained EA without using the "EA" word.

The next morning...................

So in the morning my wife finds out the the OM (her nephew) mother has also de-friended her. Well that bought on the fallout of blameshifting……”my reputation” being tarnished. “What must they be thinking and saying….that I am having an affair”….”look what have you done”. I listened the most part, but did snap and said…”you replaced me” “I became second in this relationship”. My wife finished by saying her father has to hear and deal with all of this.

My wife was crying and the children saw it.

The day is young…..let she what happens


----------



## Chaparral

gabster555 said:


> I don’t know what happened….
> 
> The day before my wife and I connected, a friend of both my wife and I started to text me. I felt my wifes hand behind the text. I made it clear, if I have to I will divorce my wife. I also explained EA without using the "EA" word.
> 
> The next morning...................
> 
> So in the morning my wife finds out the the OM (her nephew) mother has also de-friended her. Well that bought on the fallout of blameshifting……”my reputation” being tarnished. “What must they be thinking and saying….that I am having an affair”….”look what have you done”. I listened the most part, but did snap and said…”you replaced me” “I became second in this relationship”. My wife finished by saying her father has to hear and deal with all of this.
> 
> My wife was crying and the children saw it.
> 
> The day is young…..let she what happens


This timeline is confusing me. What is the order of recent events and what is she doing now?


----------



## gabster555

Friday

There is NC with the OM. He has de-friended my wife. My wife and I had a date...which included holding hands. After 10 days of not sleeping with me, she came to my room and we connected physically. 

The next morning Saturday

My wife found out the OM mother (cousin sister) de-friended her on FB.

She started to blameshifting and gaslighting. I wasn’t falling for that and did my best to ignore her. My wife continues to use psychological warfare on me. 

A second date with my wife...went to a music concert. A romantic singer. Lots of holding hands and I made the point of being physically close to her. That night she remained in my room,but we didn't connect physically.


----------



## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> She started to blameshifting and gaslighting. I wasn’t falling for that and did my best to ignore her. My wife continues to use psychological warfare on me.
> 
> A second date with my wife...went to a music concert. A romantic singer. Lots of holding hands and I made the point of being physically close to her. That night she remained in my room,but we didn't connect physically.


Just to be clear, did this blameshifting / gaslighting come after that first 'date' you mentioned?

I wanted to say this to you yesterday, I'd be careful about buying her material presents, they are throwing away good money on someone who doesn't deserve it right now. Think about FREE inexpensive ways to spend quality time, picnics outdoors, etc. The point is to spend good uninterrupted quality time to reconnect, not to reward her for her bad behavior--there is a fine line.


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## gabster555

I bought the clothes/gifts for my wife before our first date to the cinema. and before the auntie's de-friending on face book.


----------



## iheartlife

iheartlife said:


> Just to be clear, did this blameshifting / gaslighting come after that first 'date' you mentioned?


----------



## gabster555

Iheartlife.....after the first date.

I have not confronted my wife and asked her directly to admit of the EA. My wife continues to deny of a EA. Should I tell my wife she needs to admit to the EA...ask for transparency of all.....??

I'm thinking of about giving a polygraph to my wife.

What does everyone think....good idea bad ideal.... 

Your thoughts please


----------



## Almostrecovered

she needs to show remorse and that includes admitting the affair and telling the truth


----------



## gabster555

But how should I word it....how should I approach in....????????


----------



## Almostrecovered

you need to state it in a way that presents consequence-

you need to do x or else I will have to file


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## gabster555

Almostrecovered Thank you..... I be honest...I'm scared of upsetting the little progress my wife and I are making. The shock to the dad has been a wake up to my wife...making her come out of the fog.


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## gabster555

Iheartlove.....as I read more and more of your advice to people....my respect to your advice continues to grow. You have a wonderful insight to EA.

Pit. Thank you for opeing my eyes to the dopamine and the chemical changes that are going on. I be honest and say....lots of things going on and I'm trying to learn and understand all the time.


----------



## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> Almostrecovered Thank you..... I be honest...I'm scared of upsetting the little progress my wife and I are making. The shock to the dad has been a wake up to my wife...making her come out of the fog.


 But again--and we may be miscommunicating, you and I--if she's still gaslighting and blameshifting, she is still in the fog and isn't really coming out of it. I just wasn't clear if she was doing that before you seemed to be connecting again, or if this is still happening as we speak.

It is a measure of how serious she is to recommitting to the marriage; whether she believes she is at fault, or not.

There is another thread on here right now with a husband whose wife won't admit / can't believe that her inappropriate relationship with a woman friend was an EA and betrayal to the marriage, you may find his comments of interest.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...s-experience-ws-woman-strict-ea-ap-woman.html


----------



## the guy

fear=weakness, your WW will feed off your weakness.

Stop being scared, until this thing can be wide open then your WW can't see the need to fix it.


----------



## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> Iheartlove.....as I read more and more of your advice to people....my respect to your advice continues to grow. You have a wonderful insight to EA.


Sorry I missed this before. You are very kind to say that. My husband was in an EA for 4.5 years. But most of what I know is due to the other posters here at TAM who have been around far longer than I.


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## Chaparral

Google the signs of an emotional affair. Print the list off and go over it with your wife. Many people don't understand what an EA is and what damage thet do even if they are in one. There is a reaal good book out there "Not Just Friends" ( I think) that could help you a lot.


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## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> Google the signs of an emotional affair. Print the list off and go over it with your wife. Many people don't understand what an EA is and what damage thet do even if they are in one. There is a reaal good book out there "Not Just Friends" ( I think) that could help you a lot.


Double-teaming again with Chap here on this topic.

I think I mentioned this book earlier but as I ran my errands today I kept thinking about how much you need this book. And more importantly, how much your wife needs to read it too.


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## gabster555

Last night was a nightmare. I spoke to my wife, and posed the question if she has any remorse about her EA. My wife stood strong and was adamant that she had no EA and she did nothing wrong. She continues to think on the lines that my shrink has led me a bunch of lies and poisoned my ideas of an EA. 

She became violent and starting to hit me. I have a couple of bruises around my hand and shoulder. I didn’t help. She said to me…. don’t put your finger in my face and I did….,couldn’t help myself. I told her to get out of my bedroom…its not her bedroom room and she wouldn’t go. My son and baby daughter could see from the hallway her mom shouting and a little of the hitting she was doing. She tried to lie down and was telling my baby daughter to sleep next to her. I pushed her pillow of the bed and as I did I accidently made contact with her nose. She took that as a hit to her face and then turned round and gave me a punch to the face. I turned around and gave her a hit to her arm. Somehow I pushed her out of my bed and got her to leave my bedroom. At that point I locked her out. I heard my wife scream to my daughter to get to bed and started shouting and swearing to me. My children could hear everything. My wife tried to open the door lock. I could hear her shout…you have shown your true self and so on. I called her on her cell phone and asked her wanted. On the third call, she said give me my phone charger. I opened the door, gave her the charger. She went to sleep with my daughter and I went back to my room.

Its’s morning time the next day…..lets see what happens


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## morituri

BOTH of you deserve to be arrested for domestic violence. Call the police the next time you see the situation escalated to violence. Neither she nor you have a right to hit each other. Violence is inexcusable.


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## gabster555

Morituri........I know that two wrongs don't make a right....but calling the police isn't the answer. I have the 4 children to consider. After taking 30 hits which included my wife hitting me with a belt and throwing stuff at me....I sort of snapped. I didn't hit her face......I pushed her pillow of the bed to tell her to leave and I had no idea I made contact with her face/hit her face until she hit me/punched me in the face.

chapparal...I purchased the book...Not best friends....I can understand what has happened to my marriage...but my wife can't....


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## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> chapparal...I purchased the book...Not best friends....I can understand what has happened to my marriage...but my wife can't....


Again, her strong emotional reaction is the indicator that what she is doing is so wrong. She is in incredible denial.

But now you see where this is going. She is going to say that you drove her to this behavior because you are violent. Obviously violence is always wrong, and I hope you already know that.

On the other subject--this is the #1 issue I see with the various EAs that are being discussed on the forum right now. Spouses who don't believe that what they're doing is wrong. I wish I could tell you how to get that through to her.

People who have physical affairs know that they are in the wrong. It is cut and dried.

But EAs are more insidious than that.

On a separate note:
Have you looked at the other books / websites we talked about, 5 Love Languages, Love Busters, His Needs / Her Needs? Even though what your wife did was very wrong, you have to give her a reason to want to be married to you. The EA was not your fault, but you may be coming at this from the wrong angle now that she is NC. There has to be path back to understanding how this happened and how to prevent it in the future.

She derived something from her EA. You need to figure out what that something is or she's just going to replace it with someone else, and this time, he won't be a relative.


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## Almostrecovered

when violence gets involved you need to get away

if it continues you call the police and document everything


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## lordmayhem

morituri said:


> BOTH of you deserve to be arrested for domestic violence. Call the police the next time you see the situation escalated to violence. Neither she nor you have a right to hit each other. Violence is inexcusable.


Yup. Both would be booked for mutual combat and the kids placed in CPC.


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## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> when violence gets involved you need to get away
> 
> if it continues you call the police and document everything


Thus the need for a VAR on his person at all times. Otherwise, if she has numerous bruises and because of the size difference, he may be looked on as the primary agressor.


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## morituri

gabster555 said:


> Morituri........I know that two wrongs don't make a right....but calling the police isn't the answer. I have the 4 children to consider. After taking 30 hits which included my wife hitting me with a belt and throwing stuff at me....I sort of snapped. I didn't hit her face......I pushed her pillow of the bed to tell her to leave and I had no idea I made contact with her face/hit her face until she hit me/punched me in the face.


Of course calling the police IS the answer because she will not stop until she gets arrested and made to face the music of her actions.

When it comes to domestic violence, chivalry should go out the window.


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## gabster555

My wife has a repeated behavior of hitting. She did this to me years ago. What happened yesterday was out of control. I should of left the room for her to cool down.

We can both move on from last night...but I know better to leave the room/house when she starts getting like she did..

My wife says.....

“I’ve had my own emotional issues since October…and if you continue to banger me again, again and again…..our marriage is not going to work.”

My Wife says 

“OM name is out of the picture…..so what is your problem now….what you are doing….is this bringing us closer together?


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## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> My wife has a repeated behavior of hitting. She did this to me years ago. What happened yesterday was out of control. I should of left the room for her to cool down.
> 
> We can both move on from last night...but I know better to leave the room/house when she starts getting like she did..
> 
> My wife says.....
> 
> “I’ve had my own emotional issues since October…and if you continue to banger me again, again and again…..our marriage is not going to work.”
> 
> My Wife says
> 
> “OM name is out of the picture…..so what is your problem now….what you are doing….is this bringing us closer together?


Well, like I said....read my posts above. You want to figure out how to bring her closer. Go figure it out.


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## Chaparral

Are you constantly bringing it up? It sounds like you keep picking at a scab.


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## Will_Kane

I would not worry about her admitting to the EA at this point.

I would not care too much if she ever admitted to it.

Most important is that it ended and does not start up again.

The longer there is no contact, AND YOU WORK ON FIXING YOUR ADMITTEDLY BAD MARRIAGE, the more your wife will come to realize that what she was doing was bad for your marriage. She may never admit to having an "EA" with her own nephew, that may just be too taboo for her to ever admit, even to herself, but in time she will realize the relationship with the nephew was not right and hurt the marriage.

Stand firm on continued no contact. Work on your marriage. You are making progress.


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## gabster555

I took advice from members of TAM…..for my wife to admit to her having an EA. She denied it……she got violent ….we argued and my wife became physical and started to fight/hit and throw things at me. It ended with me kicking her out of the bedroom. Yesterday was the second night my wife didn’t sleep in our bedroom.

My wife shows no remorse and most likely thinking "she didn’t do anything wrong". As far as she is concerned her internal thinking must be going on like this……”I didn’t crossed no boundaries in marriage”

There is no discussing the EA. There is no gaslighting or blameshifting. She doesn’t want to bring it up anymore. My wife doesn’t think she is at fault.

Bringing up the topic of EA gets my wife upset and angry. She will always start going on about….I’m never happy…..always have to find something to feel sad about…basically saying “I’m a broken needle in a record player”

I’m reading the book “Not just friends”…..and I know for sure…my wife will never read it….. I know what she is like.

I do plan to continue reading other books…like “Love Languages, Love Busters” once I finish “Not just friends”.

I wife feels used and not valued. She feels alone without close family and friends to socialize with. My wife misses the ability to talk and kick back with people. She wants more to life and just being the mother, looking after the kids and being married to her husband. She doesn’t want to be tied down with household chores. She stated in the past…”There must be more to life”…..”there is something missing in her life”

Chapparal…I only report what my wife says to me. I didn’t understand….what scab I'm picking at….I may be, but not sure what you are referring to.

Will Kane…you are spot on….. with your statement …I really hope she learns and realizes the relationship with the nephew was not right and hurt the marriage…..please god…make my wife understand this.


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## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> Chapparal…I only report what my wife says to me. I didn’t understand….what scab I'm picking at….I may be, but not sure what you are referring to.


I think what he meant was, the harder you try to get your wife to admit that there was something wrong with the EA, when she is so adamant about it not being wrong, that it doesn't allow you to move beyond it now that she's NC.

And I realize the reason you don't want to let go is you rightfully fear rug-sweeping--that is, pretending the EA was no big deal, which opens the door for another EA with someone else further down the line.

Here's a different tack to take, if you haven't tried it. Have you approached this from the point of how hurt you feel about her relationship, rather than just pure anger? Have you shown her tenderness in these discussions, rather than confrontation?

Not Just Friends does talk about this, how there has to be bridge. The person in the EA can't be punished forever for what they did, or they won't see a point to staying in the marriage.

But you are right, this is a big hurdle for you, that she won't admit it was wrong.

We can't tell how you're handling this--so maybe youv'e done this already. What I would have been saying is,

"When you spent so much time talking to someone outside of our marriage, about things that were important to you, I felt like you were turning away from me and the marriage. I felt like he was more important to you than I am. I felt like you have stopped coming to me when you have a problem or need to share your feelings. Maybe you don't agree with me. But I'm trying to explain how this made me feel. It doesn't matter whether it was just a friendship. It crossed a line into damaging our marriage, and it hurt me deeply."

You've figured out why she likely had an EA. She needs validation, outside of being a housewife. That is a very common thing for women to experience. Being a housewife in modern America (not sure where you're located) can be a lonely, isolating existence. Children are not intellectually stimulating the vast majority of the time, and it is inappropriate to share your adult concerns with them. You know all this, you need to brainstorm with your wife on how to handle this very common issue.


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## gabster555

Ilovelife. Thank you for your kind words. I don’t think I’ve been confrontational…but that just me thinking 

The one thing I have being doing is text talking to my wife. I find I can control my words and it allows us to control our feelings. I don’t fly of the handle and nor does my wife. If it does go crazy….we don’t directly hear it.

When we do text talk…I can summaries my wife’s feelings to this 

“stop playing shrink with me. You either move forwards or you don’t….make up your mind” 

“then quit going around in circles”

“I’m trying then YOU do this whole sulking thing”

“your mood swings are what’s interfering”

“ And u still dwelling over past???? F***king MOVE FORWARDS”

“You’re the perfect king that’s all u want to say…I’m sooooo f***ing horrible”

I will move forwards to repair this marriage….just didn’t what any rug-sweeping


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## iheartlife

What you may find as you reconnect using the advice from the books you're reading is that she will open up more.

I found in my own marriage that while I remained angry and fixated on finding out all the details and how WRONG it all was, there was no room for my husband to express remorse.

It is a tricky thing: they need to see your pain and disgust and anger to some extent so they KNOW that this has hurt you.

But again, they have to see that their marriage is a valid alternative--something worth saving and nurturing.

Try to stop talking about it every day. Reserve it to once a week. Turnera mentioned this solid advice that is often given to me not so long ago and it made a huge difference. Write stuff down if you feel like you will pop if you don't talk for fear of forgetting to raise it with her.


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## Chaparral

"Chapparal…I only report what my wife says to me. I didn’t understand….what scab I'm picking at….I may be, but not sure what you are referring to.

Will Kane…you are spot on….. with your statement …I really hope she learns and realizes the relationship with the nephew was not right and hurt the marriage…..please god…make my wife understand this.

I was just saying what Will Kane said but he did a much better job.

Forget the EA for now and make up with her. When she sees you are not the enemy youcan show her the book.

For now work on romancing her and showing her how good life can be. Most importantly you need to connect with her. NEVER discount her opinions/ideas. They may seem silly to you but they are deadly serious to her.


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## gabster555

It’s been a week since, my Wife and I had the fight. I’ve been Not ”just friends” and it’s been eye opening to say the least. 

I am giving my marriage all that I can give and will continue for 12 weeks +. I’m going to be the best husband I can be. My wife has seen a change in me and she is not sure what’s happening. I’ve been kind, happy and trying to show my appreciation to her. It’s also a week since I have kicked her out of my bedroom and she hasn’t returned.

I’m not going to deny my wife didn’t have a EA, but what I will say is…it’s was some wired…..strange friendship/EA type of thing.

I will also admit, when she texted/messaged with her affair partner..OM, she entered another world and escaped from the concrete reminders of her unbearable emotional pain……..”my wife thinks she is responsible for the death of the best friend……being married with 4 children……responsibilities….a marriage braking down..”

I truly believe my wife is depressed about everything in her life.
Her affair offered intellectual stimulation and fun at the time when she was way down in the dumps…….she even said this to me. 

My wife used the EA or talking/texting to her bestie as an antidepressant instead of getting professional help for her situational depression.

My wife got an ego booster…she got an enlarged version of herself and enjoyed the feedback that told her she is special and infinitely valued and appreciated. She became idealized by her bestie. She enjoyed the positive mirroring; from her bestie’s eyes……..my wife got all the approval she needed

Your thought’s please


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## iheartlife

It sounds like you took the time to gain some understanding and insight into her EA. I think depression and an escape from difficulties is a common way that EAs form. The difference between an EA and a true friendship (if it's nonsexual) is that it's consuming; confidences and secrets are shared that are hidden from the spouse; and the EA partner does not provide objective criticism, only affirmation and validation. She received approval all the time whether she deserved it or not.

I'm also glad to see you're identifying ways to show her you can change. That is wonderful, and I would continue in that direction. But all the changing n the world cannot heal her depression if that is one of her biggest problems.

Has your wife seen a counselor yet for her depression?


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## gabster555

That's one of my wife's biggest problems.....she never admits to what the problem is. I see the problems. If I recommend anything, she takes it the wrong way.

My wife can not handle constructive criticism.......telling her to seek help for depression.......I can see her thinking...."so know you think i'm depressed.......I'm so f***ed up.....thank you for telling me.


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## TRy

gabster555 said:


> When we do text talk…I can summaries my wife’s feelings to this
> 
> “stop playing shrink with me. You either move forwards or you don’t….make up your mind”
> 
> “then quit going around in circles”
> 
> “I’m trying then YOU do this whole sulking thing”
> 
> “your mood swings are what’s interfering”
> 
> “ And u still dwelling over past???? F***king MOVE FORWARDS”
> 
> “You’re the perfect king that’s all u want to say…I’m sooooo f***ing horrible”
> 
> I will move forwards to repair this marriage….just didn’t what any rug-sweeping


 Your wife has no remorse, demands rug sweeping, is very selfish, and sounds like a complete bit**. Putting the affair aside for a minute, have you ever asked yourself if it makes sense for this person to be the person that you spend the rest of your life with? I do not ask this question lightly as I have never been divorced and been married for over 20 plus years. I find that when people get cheated on that they often spend so much time trying to repair the marraige and make it work, that they never look at their own lives and their own needs and ask is this best for my happiness. 

She is responsible for her happiness and you are responsible for yours (good thing too since she does not seem to care about your happiness). Remember that it is not just all about her and that your happiness matters too. The next move is yours. Make it count.


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## gabster555

I’m going to defend my wife by saying she is a wonderful person…..but here comes the but. My wife has baggage…..from her life. 
She is a wonderful person, when seen from the outside. Friends, family see a sociable, smart, funny family orientated person. She smiles, very accommodating and retains a positive attitude to life.
When it comes to our internal family, she is a Bit**. I have 4 kids with her and this is too much for her. She does nothing but shout and demand thinks from my kids. I ruined my anniversary day, to make the point to never hit the children. Over the 12 years, I have told her so many times to pitch her voice to the kids…..not just shout at them with one tone. My wife is all about shopping and having a good time.

My kids are lazy and take her for granted. They don’t want to clean up their room because my wife doesn’t clean her room. They don’t want to brush there teeth because my wife doesn’t brush her teeth. I’ve keeped the family together. I’ve the one who being washing the clothes and putting the clothes away for the past 12 years. I’ve the person who has been cutting her children nails. Because of my wife’s failure. I’ve been the one who clean, stainted her underwear and put them away.

I’ve been asking the eldest two children to pull together and do more work to keep the family together. My eldest does a lot and feels like a slave. She is 15 and knows what her mom is like. My wife is on a rampage today. The kids rooms are a big mess. The 10 year old daughter is lazy and never tidies up. My wife is swearing and being emotional abusive. 

The kids need a rude awaking.....

I told my wife that swearing to not the answer. The son of 8 will start talking back a bit. Again my was is emotionally/mentally attacking my son. It's days like this which I say to myself....enough of this......end the marriage.....

The only reason my wife is on this rampage..is my wife's family are coming from the UK.....and staying the night.....The upstairs is a mess and her name/reputation will be tarnished...if they say our messy house . I've kicked my wife out of the my master bedroom. My wife wants to give our bedroom up for the night. I'm heading for another fight. Should I give up the room....or stick my guns....The extended family will surly find out something is up if I don't give up the master bedroom....and my wife doesn't want that

I do ponder if my wife is the person who I want to be for the rest of my life.


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## TRy

gabster555 said:


> I’m going to defend my wife by saying she is a wonderful person…..but here comes the but. My wife has baggage…..from her life.
> She is a wonderful person, when seen from the outside. Friends, family see a sociable, smart, funny family orientated person. She smiles, very accommodating and retains a positive attitude to life.
> When it comes to our internal family, she is a Bit**. I have 4 kids with her and this is too much for her. She does nothing but shout and demand thinks from my kids. I ruined my anniversary day, to make the point to never hit the children. Over the 12 years, I have told her so many times to pitch her voice to the kids…..not just shout at them with one tone. My wife is all about shopping and having a good time.
> 
> My kids are lazy and take her for granted. They don’t want to clean up their room because my wife doesn’t clean her room. They don’t want to brush there teeth because my wife doesn’t brush her teeth. I’ve keeped the family together. I’ve the one who being washing the clothes and putting the clothes away for the past 12 years. I’ve the person who has been cutting her children nails. Because of my wife’s failure. I’ve been the one who clean, stainted her underwear and put them away.


 You start off by saying that "I’m going to defend my wife by saying she is a wonderful person", then you tell us above what she is really like, and I have a hard time seeing what is so wonderful about her. Heck she does not even brush her teeth, yuck!! Add in your later comment that "My wife is swearing and being emotional abusive", and rather than thinking "wonderful", I am wondering why you are still there.


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## gabster555

I think that it goes back to the point is my wife.......is she having a break down or mid life crisis or is she going through a form of depression. Over the 12 years of marriage, its never been like this or this bad

The surgeries, the death of the her best friend, her EA with the OM....using it as a replacement for antidepressant instead of getting professional help for her situational depression......

My wife doesn't even know why she is acting the way she is....she talks about everything coming to a boiling point and not being able to cope with it all. All the physical pains, all the emotional pains, and all the marital pains all at once and all very overwhelming.

On a side note.....My wife may brush her teeth 3 times a week or something like that.


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## iheartlife

Why does she refuse counseling? Does she think it won't work? Does she hate it because it's your idea? Does she think people who need therapy are weak? Just trying to understand.


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## gabster555

My wife could be believing counseling wont work. My wife had close family friends, who youngest daughter went to a counselor/psychotherapist and she came back and told her parents, basically "I'm all messed up because the parents never said I love you to the daughter. I've been seeing a therapist who coined the phase "The phantom Boyfriend". My wife believes my mind being poisoned....all my problems are in my head.....people are telling me wrong things.


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## lordmayhem

gabster555 said:


> On a side note.....My wife may brush her teeth 3 times a week or something like that.


*May* brush her teeth? I hope she bathes at least once a day. :scratchhead:


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## gabster555

It’s interesting my wife feels……. I am the person that her betrayed her in our marriage and I am the person who broke her trust in our marriage. 

My wife’s thinking sound like this……..

“All the pain and humiliation he put me thru…..My image has been tarnished.”

I’m the one doing the heavy lifting and my wife is the one who is injured. She is depressed, withdrawn, and angry. 

She was talking to me in the car, about how her sister husband called my wife's mom crying about his problems and my wife committing to her mother how both her son-in-laws are unstable/crazy. My mother-in-law chuckled and I’m sure my wife did as well, but it serves the point that my wife feels she is the betrayed person my marriage. She was right and did no wrong and I was wrong in my thinking.

I need to understand that resentment will block love. I have to find a way to forgive and release the resentment. I know it’s difficult but its necessary, not for her but for me. I am married to my wife and I love her. I just hope she will see the light and gain understanding.

I trying to be the best husband I can be and be in a better marriage than before. It will get better over time. It takes time to heal.


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## gabster555

My wife upgraded her phone. I didn’t have a big problem with that. She has a habit of wanting a new phone up most every 12-16 months, when all you need to do is reset the phone. We were at the Best Buy store and we needed to transfer the contacts over to the new phone. There was a password that had to be entered to get to the phone. I asked my wife what the password was. She told me the password was bestie. My wife had a smile/grin on her face when she told me. This is the description of the OM……..her best friend….bestie. 

Driving back home and at home, I lost it. After making strides to make our marriage work, she still uses passwords to remember the OM. What my wife doesn’t understand is that Bestie is a trigger for me its about the EA she had. She still refuses to acknowledge it as an EA. We argued….I was furious that she would use that as password. I said things in the heat of the arguments and I asked her to leave my bedroom. My wife is adamant that I am going crazy, but she doesn’t understand what the full extent of what she did and how much time it going to take in healing from the EA…

We are having a picnic over the weekend and the OA parents are going to be there. They are going to be family from my wife’s side. My side of the family will be there. My wife’s parents and family will be their. 

Question……………..Just what and how much details should I tell the OM parents. I wonder what they must be thinking about me attacking their son…..

Just when we was making progress.

Your overall thoughts please……..


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## Kallan Pavithran

gabster555 said:


> I asked my wife what the password was. She told me the password was bestie. My wife had a smile/grin on her face when she told me. This is the description of the OM……..her best friend….bestie.
> 
> she still uses passwords to remember the OM. What my wife doesn’t understand is that Bestie is a trigger for me its about the EA she had. She still refuses to acknowledge it as an EA.
> she doesn’t understand what the full extent of what she did and how much time it going to take in healing from the EA…
> 
> 
> Just when we was making progress. REALLY?


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## Catherine602

Gab you are not progressing that's the problem. Your wife sees no reason she needs to be concerned about you. 

She is too sure of you. If she thinks what she did was ok, I am assuming you are free to do the same. 

If you starting chatting up some pretty woman as a "friend" what would she do? Ask her. 

Would you feel comfortable talking to woman when you are out at a party? She needs to worry about what you are doing. 

She does not know that in a year or two you may be the one dissatisfied with her carelessness and be suseptable to an affair.


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## kenmoore14217

Folks, you can lead them to water but you can't make them drink!


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## gabster555

Catherine, there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. 

My wife thinks she did no wrong and I blew thinks out of proportion. I made her look like some *****.

If I start chatting up a girl as a best friend….my wife wouldn’t care…….she may use that as part of an argument….’your doing it….what’s wrong with what I did”. 

When we argue, she uses the point of view of she being sociable…talking to people…..what she is saying is I don’t communicate to people……and my wife has to talk to people just to live…..she is sociable and I’m not sociable.

My wife just can not see my point of view. 

My wife thinks I’m crazy and being brain washed by councilors and therapist alike.

Kemmoore…..not sure if you are referring to me. my wife or both of use


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## Chaparral

When you loose your temper in an arguement you have lost the arguement. Who paid for her new phone? If you did you should have turned around and took it back. I wouldhave stopped the car and stomped it without saying word. She bests you at every turn.

Arguing does you no good. If she calls/texts you on a phone with a password on it, refuse to answer.

Also google sh!t test, thats what she is doing to you. 

Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10.Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11.Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!


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## iheartlife

I hope you are able to do the many things that are listed in chap's post.



chapparal said:


> When you loose your temper in an arguement you have lost the arguement.


Gabster--having followed your thread for some time--this is something you need to really work on.

Anger is not the type of masculinity that wins over women

Shouting, losing your temper

etc.

Do you know what these emotions--when shown full force to her--tell her?

That she is getting to you.

That she is in control.

People who are self confident, who do not lose their tempers, are the ones who maintain control.

Someone says something to them. They don't react immediately. They pause and give themselves some time to think about what they will say next. Then they make a reasoned choice and execute that choice without a big show of emotion, without raising their voice. They might even manage to have a smile on their face.

Cool self-confidence. Cool assurance.

Don't shout. Don't say anything if you're angry. If you feel anger coming over you, let it ride over you like a wave. Wait just a minute or two, you will literally feel the anger dissipate. You cannot help if something makes you angry. But you can control your reaction to anger. The way to do this is to notice the angry thoughts. You feel the anger and mentally you say, "that is anger, I feel anger" but you don't say anything at all. The anger rushes in and then goes out. This takes practice, you cannot learn it immediately, but if you master your anger you will have learned a life lesson that will help you many times as your wife clearly knows how to infuriate you.

When you show your anger to her after she flaunts her bestie password--she won. She got a rise out of you and it gives her the satisfaction that she's still in the driver's seat. This is a child's game she is playing; show (not with disdain--with boredom) her that you are a grownup who cannot be bothered with such nonsense.

The same goes for her relationship with Bestie. No anger at the fact that she won't acknowledge what she did was wrong. Only a little hurt or sadness (not a lot--not crying). Only quiet comments of how disrespectful it was and is for her to think it was okay.


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## gabster555

Chapparal…..your post is godsend…it should be a sticky! I am working on following the advice on the post


An update to my marriage

So its been a month since I last posted anything at TAM.. Since then, I have completely read the books not just friends and His needs and Her needs. Wonderful books and I have learned so much about myself and what it really takes to make a marriage work. I’ve on my 3rd book “for men only….a straightforward guide to the inner lives of women by Shanti and Jeff Feldhahn…..So far I have learnt that husbands need to continue to love their wife’s for life and women need to continue respect their husbands for life.

My problem is I have seen the light and want so much to improve my marriage. Out of the ashes, the phoenix is reborn and so can my marriage be……but and a big but is blame.

My wife blames me and thinks I am psycho and obsessed…. Seeing things in the marriage that are not there and/or not letting go

I remind her that I found out through secrecy about all that went down….and only trying to find answers of what went down.

There is basic break down in trust for both of us. 

I would love to go to a marriage counselor and move forwards……but she doesn’t believe in MC….and so we are stuck in limbo….. 

I have being making an effort to show affection to her without the need for sex…hugs and kisses in the morning as we wake up……as I leave for work….when I come from work, at the end of the night….I text her in the day…just to say I love you….I have requested that we spend 15 hours a week on bonding together as a couple. I have asked her to spend sporting activities together…..My wife hasn’t come through with any offers.

So here we are stuck in limo like the last 12 years…..I’m making changes….but I don’t see my wife making any changes. When we argue….and I no longer loose my temper…and all she fall back to is saying

“I’m just the bad person here that all you have ever said.” 

My marriage is a roller coaster. I’m sticking to the plan of doing the best and being the best husband I can….but I can force my wife to love me or show the love I’m looking for. I doing the best to let her go…being ok with loosing her…..need to continue doing my own things… be an even better father to all my children and will try to do more stuff around the home….wash my car…..clean the back garden….do more man stuff. :-(


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## gabster555

UPDATE……Well this is a very big shock

In February, My wife was in deep into her EA. As a couple, we were fighting….she started to find weakness in the marriage….blaming me….finding faults in our marriage….saying things like “there is something missing in her life”…. Looking back justifying her EA to herself…usual scrips for cheating wifes. 

My wife had two tattoo's about two years ago. First, my name on her breast and second my name as a tramp stamp on her back. In February, she convinced herself that she had promised the kids and self-justified herself that if she put a tattoo of her husbands on her body, she now needed to put her other loves on their as well, referring to the children. 

3 month later, I found out (now) that she had sneaked her then best friends OM(the nephews) name on the tattoo as well

I’m in shock…..in disbelieve she did this. My W does not know yet that I found out. 

The bestie is out of the picture…the OM/nephew and his family are leaving the country for 3-4 month, going back to India. There is no more contact….the EA has ended. My wife has come…is coming out of the fog. I am doing my damnedest best job to rekindle the feeling of love from my wife to me.

Should I expose the name in the tattoo to her parents….the parents…farther will be in shock as well and will see their daughter for what she did. No one knows the EA more than I. My instincts were spot on.

WTF

Your thoughts please......strategies....


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## keko

Can you physically confirm the tattoo?

If things are going well exposing it to her family might do more damage then good. Are you comfortable asking her to show the tattoo, then asking her to get it removed?


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## Shaggy

I think you absolutely need to confront the tattoo. The EA isn't over if she is wearing OM name permanently on her body. It's an in your face challenge that directly to you that she will never end the EA.

You should demand it be removed otherwise you are to be forever having your wife's emotional infidelity paraded in front of you.


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## lordmayhem

gabster555 said:


> Your thoughts please......strategies....


My thoughts?










Both you and her are still rug sweeping. She still won't own the affair and is still blameshifting, while you on the other hand, are the BS and the one doing the heavy lifting to repair the marriage. Unless your WW is totally in the left column here, she's nowhere near ready for the gift of R.










Come on, she's leaving reminders of OM for herself, like the password (which she shouldn't have in the first place if she was transparent) to having OM's nephew's name in the tattoo. That means the affair is still on in her mind. No, your WW still deep in the fog. I don't know about exposing the tattoo thing, she can still play that off. She's already demonized you as the bad guy, making you out to be obsessed and crazy. If you have the solid proof to expose, then do it.


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## gabster555

Keko.......100% yes the name is there!

Lordmayhem....I don't think I'm rug sweeping......Finding out about the tatoo ....The newphew's name....... just confirms my instincts. It took my 2 weeks max (1 week really)to know something happened to my wife....that my wife changed in some way. My W is displaying depression and anxieties signs of healing...?

The question is to expose or not to expose...to have it removed or not have it removed...... to tell my wife's parents or not to tell.


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## keko

gabster555 said:


> 100% yes the name is there!


Ask her to remove it if she refuse's tell her you'll be bringing in her family to show it to them.


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## iheartlife

Gabster, you KNEW you weren't crazy no matter how hard she tried to make you feel that way. You knew the truth. Listen to lordmayhem and Shaggy. She seems to get off on defying you like you're her dad. Do not react with a single ounce of anger, she seems to love pushing your buttons. Use confidence. This is your test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gabster555

Iheartlife

No more anger for me.... Just tying to figure out my next steps... The words "No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change." keep coming back to me... Some part of me is thinking of telling my wife who is in India right now for the next two weeks with her parents(doing her good to clear her mind)..... I found out about the the name on the tattoo and the divorce papers will be waiting for you when you get back.

EA....Weird EA....wtf...mental break down wife wtf


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## survivorwife

gabster555 said:


> Keko.......100% yes the name is there!
> 
> Lordmayhem....I don't think I'm rug sweeping......Finding out about the tatoo ....The newphew's name....... just confirms my instincts. It took my 2 weeks max (1 week really)to know something happened to my wife....that my wife changed in some way. My W is displaying depression and anxieties signs of healing...?
> 
> The question is to expose or not to expose...to have it removed or not have it removed...... to tell my wife's parents or not to tell.


Absolutely yes, let her know that you know about the tattoo. Demand that she have his name removed, period. No negotiation. If she has it removed, there is no need to tell anyone. However, if she does not, THEN would be the time to open it up.

It took me awhile, but I have read this entire thread and parts of it does hit home with me. My CH was having EAs as well as, I believe, PAs. And yes, he too believes, to this day, that he did nothing wrong. I ended up leaving him, and he still doesn't "get it" (the damage he did to our marriage). He just can't seem to wrap his mind around the disrespect and disloyalty he displays when he has these "relationships" with OW. Currently he remains in "la-la land" where he still doesn't believe he did anything wrong, and no amount of discussion will change his mind.

I hope things work out for you, but so long as she holds on to that OM without understanding what that relationship did to you and/or your marriage, it will be impossible to move forward. I wish you well.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

gabster555 said:


> Keko.......100% yes the name is there!
> 
> Lordmayhem....I don't think I'm rug sweeping......Finding out about the tatoo ....The newphew's name....... just confirms my instincts. It took my 2 weeks max (1 week really)to know something happened to my wife....that my wife changed in some way. *My W is displaying depression and anxieties signs of healing...?*
> 
> The question is to expose or not to expose...to have it removed or not have it removed...... to tell my wife's parents or not to tell.


:scratchhead:


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## Acabado

> My W is displaying depression and anxieties signs of healing...?


Whidrawal is a start (means NC- detoxing from the continued fixes) but sign of healing? You have to wait for her to admit this was an insane, shameful, hurtful EA and come out of the fog by displaying some remorse about it.


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## gabster555

The question is when....should I tell her? 

This may be a good time.....since my W isn't here and for another two week and has lots of time to think about what she did.

I like the idea that she has to admin that was insane, shameful, hurtful...crossed the boundaries of marriage.....that she had an EA

But I have to be honest...I didn't find out myself...my wife's female friend told. me. When I asked her why she told me....she said she told me because she was upset with my wife on how she is being treated....

she told me out of spite.......

I am upset and sad I know............ and upset and said on how I came to find out about the name. 

I would of never found out myself.

My wife and I have been sending each other wonderful romantic messages on FB. I feel us coming together....I feel her loving me again....and then I learn about the name on the Tattoo.

Karma........?????


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## Almostrecovered

just because she will love bomb you, doesn't mean she is willing to do what is necessary for you to heal

the discovery of the tatoo is just another example of trickle truth


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## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> But I have to be honest...I didn't find out myself...my wife's female friend told. me. When I asked her why she told me....she said she told me because she was upset with my wife on how she is being treated....
> 
> she told me out of spite.......


Can you explain--do you mean that this female friend thinks you're forgiving your wife too easily, and so she's pointing out that she's still keeping the EA partner close to her heart with this tattoo?


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## gabster555

Almostrecovered

are you in agreement that I need to expose...talk about the tattoo....and the tattoo of the name need to go...


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## gabster555

Iheartlife

My wife friend feels mistreated by wife..... and out of spite told me about the name on the tattoo. I also told her that my wife has lost sense of her mind.....which may of made her think to tell me about the name on the tattoo. 

My wife has no contact with the OM...nephew


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## warlock07

Where is the location of the tattoo? Isn't the OM(phantom bf) in India too?


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## iheartlife

warlock07 said:


> Isn't the OM(phantom bf) in India too?


I was wondering about that too.


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## gabster555

The Phantom BF(OM) and his family are here in the USA, but are planning to go back to India on Tuesday for another 3-4 months and maybe even longer... and will be in totally different regions in India...They will not be meeting up in india.


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## gabster555

See for yourself.

My kids name are around the outside with butterflies and his name Sim is the center butterfly


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## warlock07

Wow...if she really put up his name at the centre, though I can not make it out from the picture


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## survivorwife

warlock07 said:


> Wow...if she really put up his name at the centre, though I can not make it out from the picture



It's in the butterfly itself. "S" is in the left wing, the "body" of the butterfly forms the "I" and the right wing hides the letter "M". I had to increase the size of the pic to see it, but it is there.

Sneaky. Why would she want HIS name in the center of the children's names?


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## gabster555

On the left side of the butterfly in the s
The middle part of the butterfly is the I
On the right side of the butterfly is the M

Press control + to zoom in picture
press control - to zoom out of the picture

"The loves of her life"....are the words that go with the FB text/comments


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## MattMatt

Looks like something a girl of 16 might do. Not an adult.


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## gabster555

My friend said that her mindset is of a high school girls refusing to take anyone elses point of view and she is right no matter what...He said her mindset has been changed to this level..mentality maybe by the liquid Vicodin she been on/off for all the 4 surgeries


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Gabster, I definitely give her props for creativity -- kinda 'Davinci Code-ish'. Your wife definitely has unresolved issues with respect to the EA. When was the tatoo done?


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## ShootMePlz!

I would have her laser it off not just tatoo over it. Cause it would essentially still be there on her skin even though covered up. Just a thought.

Putting another man's name(not to mention the guy she had some sort of affair) on her skin...especially on the same tatoo as your kids is the ultimate slap in the face.


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## gabster555

The EA started in January. The Tattoo were done in February.


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## morituri

Gabster, do you think she would be fine if you had a tattoo with your kids name and the name of a woman you had an EA with? What do you think she would do?


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## gabster555

Morituri

I agree with you that what she has done is wrong..very wrong. It just shows you...just how crazy my W was. I fought her so much not to get the tattoo...but she was in a fog mindset. No one in the right mindset would do that...If I have to divorce my wife...I can use it to show just how unstable my wife was.. If the roles were reversed...the wife would of divorced the husband..i think.....Would like to see some women s point of view.


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## gabster555

Any what to give me help on how let my wife know I found out about name in the tattoo.... 

What to say 

How to say it

what line to use... 

what consequences will follow

Any help recommendation welcome


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## morituri

gabster555 said:


> If I have to divorce my wife...I can use it to show just how unstable my wife was.. *If the roles were reversed...the wife would of divorced the husband*..i think.....Would like to see some women s point of view.


Exactly, she would divorce you for such a blatantly disrespectful slap on the face. You would do well in asking yourself, who is really the foggy one, you or her?


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## gabster555

Morituri

I understand what you are saying

In my defense Morituri...my W did this in the month of Feb...I found out yesterday....

I'm seeking recommendation....advise.... is this not a support forum?

Wouldn't you agree Mortituri?


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## morituri

What kind of support do you want? Please be more specific.


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## Acabado

She has herself ''marked'' with her AP for heaven's sake!!. I'd demand inmediately remove it. Yesterday. This kind of blatant disrespect is... NO need to be kind or smooth. You remove this man of your back now or I'd file. Enough is enough.


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## Jibril

gabster555 said:


> Should I *expose* the name in the tattoo to her parents….the parents…farther will be in shock as well and will see their daughter for what she did. No one knows the EA more than I. My instincts were spot on.





gabster555 said:


> Iheartlife
> Some part of me is thinking of telling my wife who is in India right now for the next two weeks with her parents(doing her good to clear her mind)..... *I found out about the the name on the tattoo and the divorce papers will be waiting for you when you get back*.


Do this. I _completely_ and _utterly_ think you should contact her, and tell her you know all about this little stunt, and that you will not tolerate her disrespect anymore. Expose her ridiculous and childish behavior to the people she values, so that they can see her for what she has become, and chastise and ostracize her in a way that you cannot.

All I see when I read your posts is disrespect on her part. Complete disrespect - to the point where I don't understand, at all, why you insist on staying married to her.

I mean, _really_. She went so far as to tattoo the name of her _affair partner_ onto her back, right next to her kid's names? And she made _his_ name the _centerpiece_? Are you _kidding_ me?


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## Shaggy

Acabado said:


> She has herself ''marked'' with her AP for heaven's sake!!. I'd demand inmediately remove it. Yesterday. This kind of blatant disrespect is... NO need to be kind or smooth. You remove this man of your back now or I'd file. Enough is enough.


I would in fact use those words when talking about it. "she has marked herself with the OM".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Maybe you should just text her that she needs to have certain parts of the tatoo removed before she comes home. You might send the text to her parents and tell them to make sure the offensive parts of the tatoo removed or you will file divorce papers.


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## gabster555

Thank you .... This is what I looking for what sentences words to text my wife...about repenting her sins...her wrong doings.


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## morituri

If you're interested, you might want to read HerHusband's threads *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...successfully-end-wifes-affair.html#post571663* (during his wife's affair) and *Trying* (after his wife's affair ended).

His wife also allowed herself to be tattooed with the OM's name on her wrist. When she came out of her 'fog' she went into an almost suicidal depression. He and his son's are struggling to help her now that the affair has ended and she's now dealing with extreme self-hatred for the affair. Quite a very sad story that all potential cheating spouses should read to see that an affair can lead the cheaters to experience a living hell that outweighs whatever little bit of heaven they experienced in the affair. Extremely sobering story.


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## gabster555

I spoke to my wife and let her know I found out about the tattoo. 

She tried to trickle truth me saying its was her old best friends initials. I did not except her answers and told her if she cannot admin that its her EA/OM name, I'm going to tell her father about the tattoo and then I’m going the OM family and show them the picture......she eventually bucked and said it is his name...

This all happened over the phone.... and I'm not 100% sure if she ment it or just said it to me...I wanted her to say it and she did. 

I had told her parents that when in india...to take her to temple after temple and cleanse her. They have been doing the mobo jombo on her at each temple . She was told by her dad…I requested it to be done to her. 

I did lots of the talking and cut her off….I didn’t want to hear her excuses.

The bottom line is I told her she needs to have redemption for what has happened and what she has done….

I have turned a corner and pinned down my wife into a corner…the tattoo and her being in india given the mumbo jumbo with the help of her parents…has given me the edge I need.

This is what I need from you guys especially from Morituri, chapparal,shaggy, Count of MC, iheartlife,almostrecovered,lordmayhem,Will_kane,pit-of-my-stomach,Beowulf, bandit,jnj express,entropy3000 is help……

A list of ultimatums.

I start and I want you guys to chime in

1)	Respect me as a husband! Do not defy me
2)	You need to show complete remorse and redemption
3)	You ruined everything. Admit it
4)	Wake up and see what you did…
5)	You did check out of the marriage…there was 3 people in the marriage..admit it
6)	Sim is not your soul mate and never was….It was all in your mixed up head..admit it
7)	You mad sim your confidant….when it should have been your husband’s job..admit it
8)	You need to show you want to save the marriage by your own words and actions
9)	No contact with Simran…ever!
10)	You did become emotional invested in another man…. Accept that fact…you crossed the 
boundaries of marriage and you hurt me deeply admit it
11)	You did have the SiM name tattooed on your back admit it You even posted “My new tattoo 
with the names of the special peeps I love beyond words. Thank you for making my word 
brighter.” Then you said “Sim…anything for my loves that makes me smile”
12)	The relationship with Sim was not right and hurt the marriage and family
13)	Do not shift blame on me and say I am crazy and making thinks up in my mind don’t tell me
our marriage was bad….take full blame for the affair. You do what is necessary for me to heal
14)	100% transparency…If I want any password phone access…I should have them….let me know
of your whereabouts

Your help please


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## Jibril

gabster555 said:


> I spoke to my wife and let her know I found out about the tattoo.
> 
> She tried to trickle truth me saying its was her old best friends initials. I did not except her answers and told her if she cannot admin that its her EA/OM name, I'm going to tell her father about the tattoo and then I’m going the OM family and show them the picture......she eventually bucked and said it is his name...
> 
> This all happened over the phone.... and I'm not 100% sure if she ment it or just said it to me...I wanted her to say it and she did.


... So you did _not_ _*expose*_ her at all. You just confronted her. I'm a little disappointed, to be honest. So now she knows that you know... so _what_? Nothing has changed. Worse still, your exchange with her was purely word-of-mouth. She can just as easily deny it in the future, and carry on with her fantasy.

You were supposed to _expose it to her family_, so that they would confront her. This would have put pressure on her to end her affair with the other man. I can only assume that you are afraid to make this affair known. I don't know whether it's pride or shame that's keeping you from doing this, but the longer you hide her actions from her family, the more time she has to invest herself in the affair. You're shooting yourself in the foot.




gabster555 said:


> A list of ultimatums.
> 
> I start and I want you guys to chime in
> 
> 1)	Respect me as a husband! Do not defy me
> 2)	*You need to show complete remorse and redemption*
> 3)	You ruined everything. Admit it
> 4)	Wake up and see what you did…
> 5)	You did check out of the marriage…there was 3 people in the marriage..admit it
> 6)	Sim is not your soul mate and never was….It was all in your mixed up head..admit it
> 7)	You mad sim your confidant….when it should have been your husband’s job..admit it
> 8)	*You need to show you want to save the marriage by your own words and actions*
> 9)	*No contact with Simran…ever!*
> 10)	You did become emotional invested in another man…. Accept that fact…you crossed the
> boundaries of marriage and you hurt me deeply admit it
> 11)	You did have the SiM name tattooed on your back admit it You even posted “My new tattoo
> with the names of the special peeps I love beyond words. Thank you for making my word
> brighter.” Then you said “Sim…anything for my loves that makes me smile”
> 12)	The relationship with Sim was not right and hurt the marriage and family
> 13)	Do not shift blame on me and say I am crazy and making thinks up in my mind don’t tell me
> our marriage was bad….take full blame for the affair. You do what is necessary for me to heal
> 14)	*100% transparency…If I want any password phone access…I should have them….let me know
> of your whereabouts*
> 
> Your help please


These, for the most part, are not ultimatums, but accusations and demands. Telling her not to blame-shift and gaslight doesn't mean she _won't_. Telling her take responsibility for her actions _will not_ make her take responsibility for her actions. She isn't going to agree _not_ to fight you. She's going to make this as difficult as possible for you, because she wants to maintain a relationship with her affair partner. Telling her _not_ _to_ doesn't mean a damned thing, because she _doesn't care what you have to say_. Your demands are worth nothing. 

These are all things she _must_ do to repair the marriage, yes. But these are things she will _not_ do, because you have not given her any consequences. You have not shown her that her infidelity has serious repercussions. She has had an affair, and lost _nothing_. So why should she do anything you have on that list?

In any case, I highlighted the few conditions that I feel are worthwhile. 

What you need to do is show her that she must _answer_ for her actions. She needs to face consequences. Stop hiding, and expose her to her family.


----------



## warlock07

What was her best friend's initials?


----------



## Will_Kane

Your wife does not want to be married to you, but she does not want to be the one to file for divorce. She continues to do things that go way beyond reasonable boundaries, the latest is a tattoo of the other man's name on her back. It probably is time for you to file for divorce and move on. 

If you are giving her one last chance, you seem to have a pretty comprehensive list already, way more than most people give. Many of these usually occur naturally as the cheater comes out of the fog and realize what they've done. They don't happen up front all at once. Typically, most betrayed spouses ask the cheater to give up the affair and return to the marriage. Then they give a list of conditions that must be met or the betrayed will file for divorce. These are those conditions:

9) *No contact *with Simran…ever!
14) *100% transparency*…If I want any password phone access…I should have them….let me know of your whereabouts
2) You need to show complete *remorse* and redemption _(I'm not sure how to show redemption or what it really means in this context)_

To this list I would add: *Remove the tattoo*

and

*Delete the Facebook post *in (11) below.

Normally, I also would recommend having her *handwrite a "no contact" letter *stating that the other man should not contact her again, that if he does she will file harassment charges against him, and stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior and how terrible she feels for having risked her marriage, family and husband, which are the most important things in the world to her.

In your case, if I recall, the other man is her nephew and your wife is the one instituting all the contact. Having her write the letter is more an indicator of how remorseful she is, and worth requiring for that purpose.

The other points you listed below fall under the "remorse" category. If these are things you need from your wife in order for you to heal, by all means ask her for them. There is nothing unreasonable there. Some might take exception to "do not defy me" as it sounds as if you want to be the master and her the slave, but it's OK if you mean it as part of showing respect and not defying your reasonable marital boundaries.

Remorse and the other conditions below come over time, you will not see it immediately. But this already has been ongoing with you for a long while. 

*Despite everything you've said and done so far, she still has gone out and had the other man's name tattoed on her back. At some point you are going to have to realize that she cares more about the other man than about you, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.* 

You cannot control her, you can only control how you react to her actions and what you are and are not willing to accept in a marriage. *If you cannot accept her actions and she is unwilling to change, at some point, you have to cut your losses, file for divorce, and move on.*

1) Respect me as a husband! Do not defy me
3) You ruined everything. Admit it
4) Wake up and see what you did…
5) You did check out of the marriage…there was 3 people in the marriage..admit it
6) Sim is not your soul mate and never was….It was all in your mixed up head..admit it
7) You mad sim your confidant….when it should have been your husband’s job..admit it
8) You need to show you want to save the marriage by your own words and actions
10) You did become emotional invested in another man…. Accept that fact…you crossed the 
boundaries of marriage and you hurt me deeply admit it
*11) You did have the SiM name tattooed on your back admit it You even posted “My new tattoo with the names of the special peeps I love beyond words. Thank you for making my word brighter.” Then you said “Sim…anything for my loves that makes me smile”*12) The relationship with Sim was not right and hurt the marriage and family
13) Do not shift blame on me and say I am crazy and making thinks up in my mind don’t tell me our marriage was bad….take full blame for the affair. You do what is necessary for me to heal


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## Chaparral

Tell her mom and dad you are nearing your limits and if she doesn't redeem herself you are going to divorce her. Let them know exactly what happened. Divorce will ruin her and their reputation.


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## gabster555

My wife response to ultimatums.

You got it... However I would like to renew vows elsewhere... Someplace romantic....I admit I zoned out... I admit it was wrong to depend on Sim for all support...I admit to the tatoo...babe you know i love everyone who enters my life..i go above n beyond for everyone..but i admit i hurt our marriage..you can have all access... I don't have any new password on phone or yahoo...I've never given anyone my gmail account...it was strictly for email access on phone. I have yahoo set up on this phone so don't even need it. You crazy in the sense that sim to me and in my heart has never been more than a good friend...but sitting back and going through everything i realize why you thought the way you did...Baby you always know my whereabouts..I'm never far from you!!! Going to Amritsar at 2am...will ask for forgiveness..anything for my honey and kids...love you soooooooo much..!!!


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## morituri

Nice words, but totally meaningless if they are not followed with the needed *actions* on her part to back them up.


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## survivorwife

gabster555 said:


> My wife response to ultimatums.
> 
> You got it... However I would like to renew vows elsewhere... Someplace romantic....I admit I zoned out... I admit it was wrong to depend on Sim for all support...I admit to the tatoo...babe you know i love everyone who enters my life..i go above n beyond for everyone..but i admit i hurt our marriage..you can have all access... I don't have any new password on phone or yahoo...I've never given anyone my gmail account...it was strictly for email access on phone. I have yahoo set up on this phone so don't even need it. You crazy in the sense that sim to me and in my heart has never been more than a good friend...but sitting back and going through everything i realize why you thought the way you did...Baby you always know my whereabouts..I'm never far from you!!! Going to Amritsar at 2am...will ask for forgiveness..anything for my honey and kids...love you soooooooo much..!!!





Oh my? Did I miss the remorse part? 

The part about validating your feelings? "Ill ask for forgiveness later? Let's just renew our vows someplace romantic (so I can get a nice vacation out of the deal")? She "loves everyone" but did not include YOUR name on the tattoo? Her "good friends" warrants a tattoo and (she didn't say this but...) it seems she is trying to trivialize your suspicions that the relationship meant anything more than just friends.


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## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> My wife response to ultimatums.
> 
> You got it... However I would like to renew vows elsewhere... Someplace romantic....I admit I zoned out... I admit it was wrong to depend on Sim for all support...I admit to the tatoo...babe you know i love everyone who enters my life..i go above n beyond for everyone..but i admit i hurt our marriage..you can have all access... I don't have any new password on phone or yahoo...I've never given anyone my gmail account...it was strictly for email access on phone. I have yahoo set up on this phone so don't even need it. You crazy in the sense that sim to me and in my heart has never been more than a good friend...but sitting back and going through everything i realize why you thought the way you did...Baby you always know my whereabouts..I'm never far from you!!! Going to Amritsar at 2am...will ask for forgiveness..anything for my honey and kids...love you soooooooo much..!!!


I can smell her fear from 10,000 miles away.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

gabster555 said:


> My wife response to ultimatums.
> 
> You got it... However I would like to renew vows elsewhere... Someplace romantic....I admit I zoned out... I admit it was wrong to depend on Sim for all support...I admit to the tatoo...babe you know i love everyone who enters my life..i go above n beyond for everyone..but i admit i hurt our marriage..you can have all access... I don't have any new password on phone or yahoo...I've never given anyone my gmail account...it was strictly for email access on phone. I have yahoo set up on this phone so don't even need it. *You crazy* in the sense that sim to me and in my heart has never been more than a good friend...but sitting back and going through everything i realize why you thought the way you did...Baby you always know my whereabouts..I'm never far from you!!! Going to Amritsar at 2am...will ask for forgiveness..anything for my honey and kids...love you soooooooo much..!!!


Did she just call you crazy?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

she should be introduced to rock bottom. Not by punishment, or cohersion... not with ultimatums, or conditions... 

With resignation. You withdrawl. Time to stop dancing. 

All these things she's doing and saying are for you, and her parents and for appearances, they are not genuine. Fool's gold. She's still dancing, She's very manipulative. This whole dynamic is fuct. It stinks of impending doom.


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## gabster555

I said we need to renew our marriage vows a starting fresh for both of us

survivorwife my name is on her breast and as a tramp stamp on her back

Count of Monte Cristo....I asked her about the crazy... she admitted it was wrong and meant it in a funny way.....I said this is no time to be funny

Pit-of-my-stomach you need to tell me clearly what you think I should say to my wife.


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## Acabado

She's still lying!, avoiding, minimizing. Married women don't mark themselves with another mans initials. There's no acknowledgment nor remorse here.
I'd demand:
NC plus total access and transparence with comunication devices, lifelong.
Acountability of whereabouts, lifelong.
Proactiveness reading about emotional affairs: Emotional infidelity and Not Just Friends will do the job. The same about boundaries in marriage.
Admisson of the emotional affair and full disclosure as you pleases.

That's al you can demand. You just wait to see: you can't demand remorse, empathy... whatever. You watch and decide.


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## Acabado

I forgot, inmediate removal of the ****ing man from her skin! Yesterday. You refuses even to talk with her without it.


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## Shaggy

I think the removal should include its replacement with your initials.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gabster555

I have addressed all your concerns to my wife and have been busting her again and again and again...... about the tattoo and being remorseful...


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## gabster555

So my wife has been taken to our holist temple…in the India….the golden temple…where I quote

“ I’m going to wash my sins in holy water tomorrow for whatever I did knowingly and unknowingly. I love you and our babies more than anything else in this world”
“ I admit it was wrong…shouldn’t never done it….Honestly, I regretted it after it was done. I never think about being there and often dismiss that its even there.

I asked her to write a hand written letter to our guru’s and state how horribly ashamed you are for your behavior….how terrible you feel for having risked our marriage, husband, your dads health. You need to let it go in the holly water when you bath there….i know you be naked to be purified….but make sure you have you letter with you

As we continue to talk/text

“I can only say, do & show. You have to believe n stay positive about us and our marriage”

I swear on all 4 of our kids…..please don’t make the tattoo an issue any bigger than it is. It was totally out of line on my part… I admit it

I am remorsal gabster but you don’t want to believe me. Im trying as hard as you to put us back together for once try to let go of what’s happened n take me in your hand n heart and nothing can stop us, definitely not no ****ing tattoo.


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## gabster555

I made my wife write a letter to our guru’s /god and this is what she wrote

Please forgive me for whatever I’ve done knowingly and unknowingly,
For the tattoo
For being emotional attached to sim
For drifting away from my hubby and zoneing out. I was wrong on lots of fronts
Please bless me n assist me in moving forwards n not looking back.
Please assist in me putting my marriage and house back together.

When I asked her what she was thinking when she was hand writing the letter she said

I cried thinking wft did I do

Just how did I not relize I zoned out too much…how I lost control of my emotions being such a strong willed person. How did I disconnect myself from my home, my loved ones. 
How did I let friendship come before my love.
All I know is I want to move forwards now with my love n kids and not look back 

What say you..comments please


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## Almostrecovered

gabster555 said:


> Please bless me n assist me in moving forwards n not looking back.



I don't like that part

sounds like rugsweeping


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## survivorwife

gabster555 said:


> I made my wife write a letter to our guru’s /god and this is what she wrote
> 
> Please forgive me for whatever I’ve done knowingly and unknowingly,
> For the tattoo
> For being emotional attached to sim
> For drifting away from my hubby and zoneing out. I was wrong on lots of fronts
> Please bless me n assist me in moving forwards n not looking back.
> Please assist in me putting my marriage and house back together.
> 
> When I asked her what she was thinking when she was hand writing the letter she said
> 
> I cried thinking wft did I do
> 
> Just how did I not relize I zoned out too much…how I lost control of my emotions being such a strong willed person. How did I disconnect myself from my home, my loved ones.
> How did I let friendship come before my love.
> All I know is I want to move forwards now with my love n kids and not look back
> 
> What say you..comments please


Would she have written that letter without you "making her" do it? Do you honestly believe in her sincerity, or are those just words to impress YOU? Is she not in another Country at the moment, and the only interaction you have with her is not face to face? So she could tell you anything and you can't watch her "body language"? Does she expect everything to be forgiven and forgotten upon her return?

Words and action are two entirely different things. What she tells YOU and what she does may be two different things. Has she made any effort to remove the tattoo yet? Has she even offered to do so? And, if so, what does she claim she intends to do?


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## Eli-Zor

> What say you..comments please


I think this is all false, you refuse to out her to her parents and your nephews family so she can say as much 'dribble' as she wants. It has no meaning as there are no consequences, all she is doing is acting up and writing what she thinks you want to hear. 

How about outing her first, and insisting she has the whole tattoo removed. There should be no reminders whatsoever of the OM on her body. The process of removal may eventually prick her conscience.


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## anonymouskitty

Man, you've gotta tackle the problem by the root instead of trying to sweep it under the rug which you are apparently doing. 

Trying to make people understand reason and logic whenever they're in the fog is next to impossible.

You need to contact OM and warn him against contacting your WW.
And more importantly you need to start giving her ultimatums and no i do not mean threats but i think you need to tell her in no uncertain terms that she is risking divorce by continuing this "friendship" and tell her to get rid of the damn tattoo immediately


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

gabster555 said:


> Pit-of-my-stomach you need to tell me clearly what you think I should say to my wife.


Putting words in your mouth or telling you what 'commands' you should give her is completely counter productive. She is going to do what you ask, and say what you want to hear. This control she is giving you is an illusion. It's more of the same game you have been playing with her this entire time. 

As Eli-Zor said, this is more smoke and mirrors.


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## OldWolf57

look at the left wing, you can see the s curving down thru the middle, the body is the I the m is on the right wing. yeah it there !!


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## iheartlife

I should just add that I vote for total 100% removal. No alteration of the initials or anything like that is going to do.

Can you share with us gabster why you are holding back informing her family and the nephew's family. You don't have to go into details--one or two sentences is all you need to say. If you have an elderly person involved and you're worried about their health, I'd exclude them, but other than that they should be informed of the tattoo.

We could all write novels about the "proof" we have, or don't have, about a cheating spouse's involvement with the AP. Saying the words,



> My wife had her nephew's initials tattooed on her back next to the names of her children; she has admitted how wrong this is to me in writing.


is really all you have to say to ANYONE for them to take in the full scope of the situation in 3 seconds.


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## OldWolf57

her father got sick the last time he was told, and had to be put in the hospital. Gab,you will notice she asked you not to make a big deal of the tatoo then it already is, but never mentioned removing it.


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## gabster555

The letter was to god……she was naked and being baptized to remove her sins from our holist temple in the world….the core symbol and temple. Everyone who is Sikh comes to this temple…..it is sacred land….. ! 

Almostrecovered When my wife said 
“Please bless me n assist me in moving forwards n not looking back.” She is talking to god…for forgiveness…

Survivorwife…no she would not of written the letter…..that recommendation came from the forum….based on the NC letter…I got the idea from Will_Kane…That you Will_Kane…I think there is something magical about writing a hand letter of redemption….of remorse….and in my case it was even more important because she was going to Amritsar the “golden temple” to be baptized/cleansed for her sins.

I DO HONESTLY BELIEVE SHE IS SINCERE!!!!!!!!!! I here in her voice…I sense in her text…don't forget….it was my instincts that alarmed me of what went down…and I have read so many life in the forum…..trust your instincts….and for now I am.

I have explained to my wife…her actions will show more that her words….but I believe her. When I first pinned my wife for the tattoo, she said…first day back she going to get the tattoo removed/alterned… don’t know what to do with his name but its going to happen….I’m going to the tattoo shop and ask them what can be done..removed…altered…

Eli-Zor I did ask her to tell her mom first……..she was didn’t want to but said if that’s what it will take then I will……her is scared of the reprecusions..her parents health

Anonymouskitty thank you for your comments….welcome to TAM….read my full thread from the beginning

Pit-of my-stomach….I here your concerns....I do………..Actions will speak louder than words……when my wife gets home..

Iheartlife…. I will go today to the tattoo shop and talk to them about removal of the S and M

My wife is worried that telling both her mom and dad may kill them….the dad has been having blur vision since he herd about the problems and suffering from some sort of depression. My wife's father or mother could have heart attacks or other medical complications of hearing about the tattoo…..

I did say to my wife…

”you didn’t care about your dad’s…you didn’t care about your mom…you didn’t care about your husband….you didn’t care about marriage….you didn’t care about and any consequences when you soiled your body with another mad name on your body…”

OldWolf57 My wife did say straight away that she have the tattoo removed the first day back.


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## OldWolf57

follow your guts dude. and Good Luck To Your future.


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## Chaparral

I thinki plastic surgeons have to remove tatoos. If I'm not mistaken
tatoo removal has become a huge business and it hurts like hell.


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## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> I thinki plastic surgeons have to remove tatoos. If I'm not mistaken
> tatoo removal has become a huge business and it hurts like hell.


I'm pretty sure they use lasers and it requires at least local anesthesia.

I don't mean to sound cruel, but I still think that the tattoo should be removed, and not altered. It will be an ironic measure of her devotion because it requires multiple visits, it can't be done all at once.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

The removal of the tattoo is the penance that she pays for being a disloyal spouse. It will show her commitment to the marriage (because as others have pointed out, the removal process is going to hurt like a beyotch. )


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## Will_Kane

*OldWolf57 My wife did say straight away that she have the tattoo removed the first day back.*

Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words. Has she started to look for someone who can do this?


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## gabster555

I went to the tattoo shop and they don't remove tattoos. The tattoo artist said the names can be modified.....lines here lines there. I don't accept that as resolution. They did give me a flyer of of a local tattoo lazer removal shop. I look into that. tomorrow


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## anonymouskitty

Mate let HER get it removed. Make HER do all the work

You're still very emotionally invested in her that you're buying into her words and promises.

Words mean nothing. Let her get it done on her own accord, if not, you'll no that it was never her intention to have it removed.


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## gabster555

Well I’m back………..
It been a good 4 week since my wife has come back from her trip…….. and one of the first things I expected her to do is remove the tattoo of the OM of her back. It has not happened.

My wife runs a day care center from our home and has had a child accuse her of hitting her. The local authorities got involved and are meant to come back and interview the children……and my wife is using this as an excuse for not having the time to remove the OM tattoo of her back.

My request to spend time together…bond together….spend some sort of time like playing tennis or going to the gym together hasn’t happened.

It’s killing me inside and as far as my wife is concerned nothing ever happened…….there is no need to make an attempt to make the marriage better……. Sex is a dribble of 2 times a month if I’m lucky…. If left to my wife to decide.

I finished my 5th book…The married man sex life primer 2011 by Athol Kay… It’s a fascinating book and a book which explains my behavior and especially my wife’s behavior of what she has done and why she has done…. I have come to a realization my wife’s surgeries have been the main cause of our marital problems…. 

Following the books advice….I’ve starting the man’s action plan to improve myself…….and am coming to a real realization of divorce…

my wife….is a mother first to my 4 children and barely my wife/girlfriend. I promised myself not to end the marriage now but wait until the years end. This will give me time to improve myself….time for me to heal…plan ahead……Athol Kay’s book talks about improving the body….getting physical fit and that will draw my wife to be attractive to me once again ….and if not you are in the best shape to move on…and that’s what I’m planning.

I so much want to tell my wife’s parents about the tattoo….. but will wait until the end of the year……if I can.

My hope for change, my need to fix…actions not words have not materialized. My wife has talked the talk but not walked the walk


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## anonymouskitty

You should really do the 180 and start D proceedings. I simply cannot understand how you're putting up with her shenanigans even after you explicitly told her to remove it. The fact that you're not willing to follow it up with appropriate action that sends a message to her extremely callous behaviour shows that she has no respect for you and the consequences of her continuing to be disrespectful. And don't beg for sex, you're not a dog thats waiting hand and foot on the your mistress and accepting the crumbs she throws at you if and when she pleases.

Stop pleading for her to change, thats not going to happen unless the shlt hits the fan or she has an incentive to do so, being a little puppy dog isn't going to cut it here.Tell your in laws.

You haven't exactly walked the walk either


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## OldWolf57

you know what who cares ?? People told you what was going to happen, but you knew better. Later Gator


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## costa200

> and one of the first things I expected her to do is remove the tattoo of the OM of her back. It has not happened.


For the life of me i would never accept a woman with another dude's name tattooed on her...


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## Eli-Zor

It's called the fog of the BS , your following your own plan and it's not working, what more can we say that has not been said already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Your wife has called your bluff. She hasn't followed through on her agreement to remove the tattoo and is making excuses.

At this point you really should demand one last time that it gets removed in the next two weeks. Don't make any threats, just say calmly that you had an agreement and you expect her to keep her word. Don't argue with her, don't push anything beyond the cold factual statement: 2 weeks - keep her word.

When she doesn't, then you without threat or warning move to inform her parents.

She believes she can ignore her agreement, and she has no remorse. She has basically returned to business as usual.


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## Chaparral

anonymouskitty said:


> You should really do the 180 and start D proceedings. I simply cannot understand how you're putting up with her shenanigans even after you explicitly told her to remove it. The fact that you're not willing to follow it up with appropriate action that sends a message to her extremely callous behaviour shows that she has no respect for you and the consequences of her continuing to be disrespectful. And don't beg for sex, you're not a dog thats waiting hand and foot on the your mistress and accepting the crumbs she throws at you if and when she pleases.
> 
> Stop pleading for her to change, thats not going to happen unless the shlt hits the fan or she has an incentive to do so, being a little puppy dog isn't going to cut it here.Tell your in laws.
> 
> You haven't exactly walked the walk either


He doesn't need to do the 180 if he is already doing the MAP. My understanding is they are mutually exclusive. The MAP will either lead his wife back to him or break up the marriage. Unless I'm missing something, he has a good plan if he sticks with it.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

chapparal said:


> He doesn't need to do the 180 if he is already doing the MAP. My understanding is they are mutually exclusive. The MAP will either lead his wife back to him or break up the marriage. Unless I'm missing something, he has a good plan if he sticks with it.


Chap, I don't see the MAP helping poor Gabster. What kind of changes can he make in less than six months that will make this woman suddenly change her behavior towards him? He hasn't followed any of our advice with respect to his wayward wife. He was all alpha when she was in India and now that she's back he's resorted back to his old beta self. I wouldn't spend another day with this uncaring woman -- but then again, it's not my life.


----------



## Chaparral

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Chap, I don't see the MAP helping poor Gabster. What kind of changes can he make in less than six months that will make this woman suddenly change her behavior towards him? He hasn't followed any of our advice with respect to his wayward wife. He was all alpha when she was in India and now that she's back he's resorted back to his old beta self. I wouldn't spend another day with this uncaring woman -- but then again, it's not my life.


It all depends on him manning up and following through. I don't see her as first option anyway since she is such a cheat. But if he follows the MAP I think he may do better next time. If she wises up who knows?

I personally would not sleep with her etc. as long as she was rubbing the tatoo in my face. Does he wake up looking at it?


----------



## Beowulf

chapparal said:


> He doesn't need to do the 180 if he is already doing the MAP. My understanding is they are mutually exclusive. The MAP will either lead his wife back to him or break up the marriage. Unless I'm missing something, he has a good plan if he sticks with it.


First, I don't think he is actually following the MAP. It certainly doesn't seem like it to me. Second, I don't think Athol would recommend that gabster start the MAP so long as his wife is still in the affair. And frankly so long as she is still remorseless and _marked_ by the OM the affair is not really over in her mind.

Gabster, Athol Kay has just opened a new section of his MMSL site that resembles a forum. This is so he can answer questions from readers in real time rather than try to respond to hundreds of emails a day. I would recommend that you go to his site and post your story. You'll get lots of feedback, not only from Athol himself but from others that have successfully run the MAP. If you really want to save your marriage I think this might be a very good start.


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## iheartlife

What happened to her promises and penitence with the guru / god and the most sacred temple? Is she spitting in the face of that as well? How do you reconcile that with your own faith?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

iheartlife said:


> What happened to her promises and penitence with the guru / god and the most sacred temple? Is she spitting in the face of that as well? How do you reconcile that with your own faith?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a friend who went to exactly the same temple. Made all sorts of promises. And, I expect he meant to keep them, at the time.

But now, back in England, his promises to the guru are all set at naught. Sadly.


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## anonymouskitty

chapparal said:


> He doesn't need to do the 180 if he is already doing the MAP. My understanding is they are mutually exclusive. The MAP will either lead his wife back to him or break up the marriage. Unless I'm missing something, he has a good plan if he sticks with it.


Chap, the MAP isn't going to help him right now, his wife is already getting what she wants from the OM, i'm pretty sure the affair has gone underground and most probably has become physical.

Implementing the MAP means that he has to stay emotionally invested in his wife throughout the whole process, this will only lead to more agony as his wife is hardly going to notice. She's mooning over the OM right now. What the 180 will do is clear OP's own affair fog. And that will lead him to make further decisions that are not detrimental to his emotional and physical well being.


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## gabster555

I need time to…get in good shape…..to do my own thing……be more Alpha… I’ve been all beta in my marriage. The MAP is the way to go….become more Alpha…..improve your appearance/body……..be your own man. 

The MAP works in the following way….By gaining physical fitness and showing better versions of alpha and beta traits, a husband will increase his sex rank. Once he has a higher sex rank then his wife she will find herself increasing attracted to him, The purpose of trumping her sex rank is to purposely destabilize the relationship and force her into choosing either a more sexual relationship or have risk losing her husband to another women.

Athol makes it clear…if a wife doesn’t want to have sex with a sexy husband who is a good man, then there is no pleasing her…..Her husband’s torture will last as long as the marriage does.

From the book The married man sex life primer 2011 by Athol Kay…I see my wife doing the fitness test on me. I have being failing the test for so many years…but not any more….. No more do this..get this…..when she is more that capable doing it herself.

As shaggy says….I can ask her to remove the tattoo within the next two week….but I want more time to self-improve and play out the MAP…. I can’t change or control my wife…I can only change/change myself. 

Beowulf…..I understand the MAP….I’ve read the book once and rereading it a second time. My wife is not in the affair…. I put a stop to that when I went and kicked him in. There is no contact…The OM and the family have all left and gone to back to India……only the tattoo and scares of the EA remain. I think my wife is just broken inside…..she smells the D coming and cant or won’t do what’s needed to fix the marriage. Beowulf I look into Athol new MMSL site….and post my story there.

Iheartlife……I don’t know what to say…….my wife prayed for forgiveness for what she did…..but you can’t pray to show love to your husband….you can’t force another person to show love…to give hugs….to give kisses……to be intimate…..it can’t be wished or forced.

Anonymouskitty….Please read my full story….and you will learn…there is no more OM. It hasn’t gone underground….The OM is in India…..there no contact with my wife…..The MAP is the way to go….. My wife may notice it or may not notice it…..but I be in the best shape to move on


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## iheartlife

gabster555 said:


> Iheartlife……I don’t know what to say…….my wife prayed for forgiveness for what she did…..but you can’t pray to show love to your husband….you can’t force another person to show love…to give hugs….to give kisses……to be intimate…..it can’t be wished or forced.


Yes, but I thought the sacred promise encompassed removing the tatoo, not promises to kiss you more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jibril

Gabster555... just expose this to her family. Jeez, why so much drama? _She would have removed the tattoo already if you had told them weeks ago_.

I don't understand why you refuse so _adamantly_ to do this.

Yes, you should work on yourself. Great. Self improvement is always good. But it's also _not_ the issue here. The fact is that she hasn't faced any consequences for her disrespect. _She made his name the centerpiece of the tattoo_. _She made his name a part of her body_.

Expose it. Stop playing these silly games.


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## OldWolf57

Gab, how long does it takes for a D to finalize where you are ?? I ask that, because you could start the D while you work the MAP. That way, she see you are serious AND working on you for another life without her. In addition, you will be in better shape if things don't work out with her, and ready to step into single fatherhood rolling and looking good.


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## Shaggy

I understand your faith in the MAP, but right now you should ask yourself if are using it to avoid dealing with the challenge she has thrown right down at you.

You took a while to build up the steam to face her, expose the tattoo and to demand it's removal. You had a lot of anxiety and fear.

when you actually faced the fear - and her - you made progress. She eventually backed down and agreed to remove it.

Now she's reneging on that, and avoiding dealing with that is not following the MAP. You've been presented with a alpha challenge - someone is breaking their word to you.

Does an alpha accept that and hopes the next battle goes in his way? Or does he call out the other party and demand they keep their word?


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## Monroe

She is going to do it again... maybe not tomorrow or next month... but someday. Why??? Because you let her. 

She enjoys walking all over you.

And you let her.


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## anonymouskitty

carpenoctem said:


> *As they say in India, if we replace our testicles with gulab jamun, the cat will come and eat it. Well, she has.*


Forgive me but what is gulab jamun??


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## Caribbean Man

anonymouskitty said:


> Forgive me but what is *gulab jamun*??




Gulab Jamun is a condiment made by East Indians. It has the shape of a small ball .
It is made out of flour and milk.


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## Sara8

gabster555 said:


> I've never heard of bestie...buts its used by the british for best friend


"Bestie" is also a term in the U.S. that people 30 and under use a lot. 

My STBEH OW 20 years his junior used it a lot in the emails I was sent by an anonymous sender. 

This 23 year old boy is not a boy. He is a man. 

This is an affair. 

When woman dates younger man it is no different than a mid-life crisis man dating a much younger women. 

It's a real relationship, despite the age difference and maybe because of it. 

The younger person helps the older person recapture their youth.

It's sick and a sign of immaturity by both sexes.


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## gabster555

The 5th of August was my 12 year anniversary… My wife and I went away together for a 2 day get away…our first in 12 years. The day before the anniversary was the bomb… a wonderful day. The day of the anniversary happen to blow up. My wife took it upon herself to look after 3 daycare children for a sleep over on our anniversary. I wasn’t having any of this. She decided to make the decision without consulting me…I was once again excluded from a decision that affected my house, my kids and my life.

I texted the daycare mother that the sleep over will not happen at my home and asked her to find other arrangement. I told her parent that she caused a fight between my wife and myself on our 12 anniversary. My wife got a response from the parent and asked what I said to the parent. I showed her what I said….and my wife started to have a bit** fit on me.

We started to argue in the car coming back home. I stood my ground and told her what needed to be told… 

“I have been walked over and treated like shi* by you. You have no consideration for me as the husband, what impacts me, my kids and my house….as far you are concerned I don’t have any input or consideration for decisions. You have cut of my ball* and stamp on them on a daily basis We went back and forth about this and I told her if you don’t remove the tattoo within two weeks….I’m ending the marriage. I stood my ground and didn’t take any cra* from my wife….after all that she said, promised….and done…. 

I hadn’t finished with her yet….we were going to pass the exit where her parents live. I pulled in the exit and we had another confrontation. I told her how it going to be in our relationship….In Athol Kay book TMMSL Athol talks about a relationship model between a husband and wife being the Captain and 1st officer. Metaphor/Model. Athol uses the example of Star Trek. I told I am the captain of this house and you are my first officer….I am the king of this house and you are my queen. This is how it’s going to be played out. I am not going to be undermined by you. You either accept this model or we go to your parents and I will explain what you have really done this year. 

My wife was in tears and distressed. She stressed how all this is going to give her father a heart attack and kill her father. I continued to get closer to the parents home, not happy with the answers of what I was hearing. My wife stated “what ever you what”. I wasn’t having that….I didn’t what her to say what needed to say to appease me… I said to her, I not going to let you walk all over me……I told her I want sex three time a week, I expect you to use pet names to me when we talk to each other….My wife didn’t flinch and didn’t say no to any thing to what I said. I told her I am not going to live like this where you make all the decisions and think I’m a no body. I will divorce you. 

She said she has never ever contemplated divorce. I remember thinking “why should you…… you think nothing of me…and are calling all the shots….why should you change anything….you got it good…

So here we are 19th August is the end of the two weeks….From all that is said and done what do I expect from my wife…we will wait and see….. I will continue to run my MAP….continue to exercise and improve myself…


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Actions speak louder than words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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