# What to do with my wife...passive/aggressive negativity galore



## californiathought

I am trying to get some perspective from some others, so I am going to type away.

My wife of about 12 years has some great qualities, but she has real trouble enjoying yourself, and I can only do so much. She complains a lot. Definitely a glass half empty kinda of person. 

She will go totally off on some inconsequential thing; could be as simple as it takes her 20 minutes longer to do something; something where I might have accidentally forgotten to do something so it costs her some time. And she acts like I purposely undermined her and/or don't listen, when really it was just a misunderstanding. She constantly says I don't respect her for a multitude of reasons, mostly because of minor incidents, some she digs up out of her memory from 1,2,4 even 8 years ago. I don't feel that is the case and tell her, but she thinks my words are cheap.

She *never* apologizes. Never. I don't she has ever apologized to me once. Obviously in 12 years of marriage, something must have been your fault, right? Meanwhile she insists on me apologizing for every perceived slight.

For sex, I was so tired of everything had to be her way, and if something turned me on that she didn't like, it was perverted. I mean, I am talking like she wear sexy lingerie, or heels, not crazy sh*t. So finally I took that attitude of, fine, whatever, you come to me for sex. So we haven't been having much sex, and of course she blames me for us having a crappy sex life now.

She is very controlling, and it frustrates her to no end that I don't let her control me. I still do things with my friends, and have certain hobbies and music I like, that she doesn't like that I like (not just that she doesn't like them herself). One time we were arguing and she was just yelling and yelling and finally to get her off of me I literally had to shout back louder, "You will not dominate me!" She was so taken aback, she finally shut up. But the fact I had to shout that shows how controlling she wants to be.

We have twins about 2 years old, and she is stay at home. I work long long hours (minimum 50 hours a week, sometimes as much as 80) to provide for the family, but it's the old story of I don't do enough. I don't clean the house enough, mostly. Granted she does most of the laundry and cleaning, and watches the kid during the day, but I do my own laundry, and do about a third of the housecleaning. But I also take care of the yard and the maintenance of the house. So lots of painting and this and that. In the course of owning our house (5 years) I feel like I have put on 120 gallons of primer and paint and varnish. But she discounts this as one and done kind of chores, not regular work like laundry. And carpentry work, this and that. You know how it is when you own a house.

She constantly complains and then sometimes gets in one of her moods that she never should have married me. She used to throw the divorce word around, until it pissed me off so much that I was like, fine, lets do it. Now she doesn't use the divorce word.

I used to have a temper and we would get in shouting matches, but now that we have kids, I don't want them to learn that, so I speak during a disagreement to her evenly and calmly about 95% of the time (the other 5% I still can't take it and shout or snip back). I thought that it would wear off on her, but and it has to some degree, but she still goes off sometimes. 

What can I do to make her less of a complainer? We are fortunate to have healthy babies, financially secure, no debt except a mortgage and car payment. A lot to be happy about. We take vacations and travel, which we enjoy; but there is something about the pressure of making flights or needing to get someplace that sometimes sets her off. Some little driving mistake that costs us 5 minutes can make her totally lose it. I am the sort of person that is like, oops, that wasn't the right street, it's an alley. Oh well, let's turn around and get back on the right road, and I will find the funny in it. In her sometimes it just makes her seethe. 

She is habitually late as well. Another passive/aggressive trait. She constantly brings up something that pisses her off from years ago in an argument, like maybe I recycled some old magazines that she didn't want recycled. Mundane stuff like that. 

I admittedly have given up buying her gifts, because they are never right. Usually now for her birthday or anniversary she buys something for herself and then gives it to me to give to her. Whatever, I say to that. Recently I bought us tickets to a concert to a band I knew she liked, and she was like, why did you do that?? I would have rather seen a different band that was playing a few months ago, why didn't you think of that? Afterwards going to the band I did buy tickets for she did say she had a great time.

She also is a procrastinator and blames me for her not getting things done. Ironically she loves scheduling and listing and planning for things, while I have more of a go with the flow style.

Any suggestions on how to make this glass half empty wife less negative? Am I missing something?


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## BigBadWolf

californiathought said:


> I am trying to get some perspective from some others, so I am going to type away.
> 
> My wife of about 12 years has some great qualities, but she has real trouble enjoying yourself, and I can only do so much. She complains a lot. Definitely a glass half empty kinda of person.
> 
> She will go totally off on some inconsequential thing; could be as simple as it takes her 20 minutes longer to do something; something where I might have accidentally forgotten to do something so it costs her some time. And she acts like I purposely undermined her and/or don't listen, when really it was just a misunderstanding. She constantly says I don't respect her for a multitude of reasons, mostly because of minor incidents, some she digs up out of her memory from 1,2,4 even 8 years ago. I don't feel that is the case and tell her, but she thinks my words are cheap.


Do yourself a favor, look here in the Men's Forum and learn everyting about FITNESS TESTS (and then Google "sh!t tests", same thing).



> She *never* apologizes. Never. I don't she has ever apologized to me once. Obviously in 12 years of marriage, something must have been your fault, right? Meanwhile she insists on me apologizing for every perceived slight.


All men reading this, do NOT get into the habit of apologizing to your women.

If, and only if, you do something so terrible once in a blue moon, then maybe MAYBE utter an apology or regret.

OTherwise, it is too much to lose to fall into the child/mother relationship instead of the proper man/woman relationship, which WILL happen when it even APPEARS that you as a man must grovel or defer for the approval of your woman.

Looking like a child in your woman's eyes, 1000 times worse than forgetting to buy the milk, or forgetting to call, or whatever some particular complaint may be.



> For sex, I was so tired of everything had to be her way, and if something turned me on that she didn't like, it was perverted. I mean, I am talking like she wear sexy lingerie, or heels, not crazy sh*t. So finally I took that attitude of, fine, whatever, you come to me for sex. So we haven't been having much sex, and of course she blames me for us having a crappy sex life now.


So what even if it was perverted?

My experience, a woman will often put up resistance to new ideas or requests or demands or say something is weird or perverted because she is insecure, or is not sure she can "pull it off".

IT is up to you as a man to not back down on these things, because if you do, it subtley reinforces to your woman that maybe she is not pretty or sexy enough for the stockings or heels or lingerie or whatever.

THat is why she is blaming you now, because inside her she wanted you to stand up for what you really wanted.

Again, this is all merely form of fitness testing.



> She is very controlling, and it frustrates her to no end that I don't let her control me. I still do things with my friends, and have certain hobbies and music I like, that she doesn't like that I like (not just that she doesn't like them herself). One time we were arguing and she was just yelling and yelling and finally to get her off of me I literally had to shout back louder, "You will not dominate me!" She was so taken aback, she finally shut up. But the fact I had to shout that shows how controlling she wants to be.


She is just insecure.

It is good that you did not back down on this issue, but work on not backing down without resorting to yelling or other means that tends to indicate you are letting her get you unbalanced.

Being calm, confident, even humorous, while not backing down and still doing what you want, is the key of winning her respect AND calming her insecurity.



> We have twins about 2 years old, and she is stay at home. I work long long hours (minimum 50 hours a week, sometimes as much as 80) to provide for the family, but it's the old story of I don't do enough. I don't clean the house enough, mostly. Granted she does most of the laundry and cleaning, and watches the kid during the day, but I do my own laundry, and do about a third of the housecleaning. But I also take care of the yard and the maintenance of the house. So lots of painting and this and that. In the course of owning our house (5 years) I feel like I have put on 120 gallons of primer and paint and varnish. But she discounts this as one and done kind of chores, not regular work like laundry. And carpentry work, this and that. You know how it is when you own a house.


More sh!t testing.

And this, do NOT let her become your task master. 

Stand up for yourself, insist calmly that you WILL take time out for your own relaxation.

And if need be, give her a task or two every now and then. 

THis often enough for a man to wake his woman up from the illusion of her thinking she is his mother.



> She constantly complains and then sometimes gets in one of her moods that she never should have married me. She used to throw the divorce word around, until it pissed me off so much that I was like, fine, lets do it. Now she doesn't use the divorce word.


So you know from this how to stop this kind complaining in the future. Excellent!



> I used to have a temper and we would get in shouting matches, but now that we have kids, I don't want them to learn that, so I speak during a disagreement to her evenly and calmly about 95% of the time (the other 5% I still can't take it and shout or snip back). I thought that it would wear off on her, but and it has to some degree, but she still goes off sometimes.


Don't expect anything to "wear off on her", she is not another man, do not think in those ways.

INstead, do not be afriad or timid to make it clear, in a calm and confident manner, how you expect to be communicated to, regardless of whether children are around or not.

THis issue is about respect. Right now, she has little for you. Change this.




> What can I do to make her less of a complainer? We are fortunate to have healthy babies, financially secure, no debt except a mortgage and car payment. A lot to be happy about. We take vacations and travel, which we enjoy; but there is something about the pressure of making flights or needing to get someplace that sometimes sets her off. Some little driving mistake that costs us 5 minutes can make her totally lose it. I am the sort of person that is like, oops, that wasn't the right street, it's an alley. Oh well, let's turn around and get back on the right road, and I will find the funny in it. In her sometimes it just makes her seethe.
> 
> She is habitually late as well. Another passive/aggressive trait. She constantly brings up something that pisses her off from years ago in an argument, like maybe I recycled some old magazines that she didn't want recycled. Mundane stuff like that.
> 
> I admittedly have given up buying her gifts, because they are never right. Usually now for her birthday or anniversary she buys something for herself and then gives it to me to give to her. Whatever, I say to that. Recently I bought us tickets to a concert to a band I knew she liked, and she was like, why did you do that?? I would have rather seen a different band that was playing a few months ago, why didn't you think of that? Afterwards going to the band I did buy tickets for she did say she had a great time.
> 
> She also is a procrastinator and blames me for her not getting things done. Ironically she loves scheduling and listing and planning for things, while I have more of a go with the flow style.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to make this glass half empty wife less negative? Am I missing something?


All this, is three things.

She is insecure (nagging, complaining, perfectionism, etc).

Because she is insecure she is firing a massive amount of fitness tests to you.

Because you missing most of these fitness tests, she has little respect for you.


So fix these things!

First, make [email protected] sure you have put away all your temper issues from the past. 

A man who is in control of himself and his environment, with such a man a woman is not insecure. A man who is not in control, whether of emotions and yes, temper, will inside his woman feed insecurity.

In this Men's Forum, study "Fitness Tests", and google "Sh!t test"

ONce you understand these things, and have put in place whatever needs to be put in place (from yor post indeed you sound like a good husband, a good father, and a good man), then STOP TAKING SH!T from your woman.

Yes, even to the point you make it clear to her "the door is right there", just like you did with the "divorce" nonsense.

Once it is clear you are the man with the mettle that he expects respect, and will have respect one way or the other, then inside your woman her insecurity is indeed replaced by respect and attraction.

And do not back down on your sexual appetites either. 

Hard to say how much of this is rooted in the bedroom situation, and how much could be VERY quickly resolved by you making YOUR desires and expectations known, and even being a bit ****y and proud at how perverted you really are -- why stop at just heels and lingerie! (but you have GOT to stand your ground and be confident and bold concerning your desires.)

From your post, this much is certain, your woman WANTS to see you stand up to her.

I wish you well.


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## alphaomega

And never ever ever stop trying to have sex with her. I know you feel like it, but go ahead and initiate sex. This is very manly and a touch of alpha. If she turns you down, big deal. Go play video games or watch a movie. Act like it doesn't bother you. This is also important.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joshbjoshb

Hey californian! 

Its always so shocking to me to read a post and say "wow, that's my wife described here" but this is what you did. Well, let me tell you how I see it.

Let's start with that: if you are interested to fix your marriage, you are in for a ride. Its not going to be simple, I still struggle with it greatly but I hope I - and my marriage - will come out of it stronger and better. So, get ready!

Second:

Your wife, like many other wives, doesn't know much how to connect with her emotions. I would say she never enjoyed life, always walks around with a feeling that someone is out there to harm her or whatever.

Then she marries you. She most likely is marrying you BECAUSE you are so positive, relaxed, clam... she was looking for those qualities even if she wasn't able to pinpoint it about you!

But guess what. She doesn't know how to got out of herself. She never knew how to enjoy life, so she still doesn't....

Now is the secret. Maybe you'll never change her and she will stay the way she is. but you have to live your life and be a happy person (at least for the kids - do you have any?)


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## Deejo

There are things you can no doubt do, to contribute to the well being of your marriage.

And notably ...

There are things you can't.

You can't 'fix' a broken partner. What becomes important is discovering whether or not that is what you actually have.

What does/did she want from her life? What does she expect of herself?

Depression maybe? Low self esteem? Sounds like she is fundamentally unsure about the course of her life. That is treacherous territory, for her, and for your marriage.

Sometimes what is going on is way bigger than sh!t tests. Keep perspective. Being the best you can be is important for you, and your marriage. But ... unless she wants better for herself, you can't do it for her.

I know that story all too well.


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## MEM2020

I 100,000 percent disagree with this. 

It is toxic for your marriage for you to keep initiating sex in the face of steady rejection. Do NOT do that. 

It sends the message that a very harsh type rejection is "really no big deal". It implies "you don't matter". 



alphaomega said:


> And never ever ever stop trying to have sex with her. I know you feel like it, but go ahead and initiate sex. This is very manly and a touch of alpha. If she turns you down, big deal. Go play video games or watch a movie. Act like it doesn't bother you. This is also important.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane

MEM11363 said:


> I 100,000 percent disagree with this.
> 
> It is toxic for your marriage for you to keep initiating sex in the face of steady rejection. Do NOT do that.
> 
> It sends the message that a very harsh type rejection is "really no big deal". It implies "you don't matter".


Absolutely. Sending the message that what you want doesn't matter and that you could care less is NOT recipe for manning up or getting what you want. Never ignore the possibility that if you send her the message that you don't want it often enough, she'll believe you.



Deejo said:


> There are things you can no doubt do, to contribute to the well being of your marriage.
> 
> And notably ...
> 
> Sometimes what is going on is way bigger than sh!t tests. Keep perspective. Being the best you can be is important for you, and your marriage. But ... unless she wants better for herself, you can't do it for her.
> 
> I know that story all too well.


And this too - there are actually some things that no amount of manning up is going to fix. Keep in mind that manning up etc doesn't work in the face of physical / psychological medical issues


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## the guy

Manning up isn't about his W issues, psycho or other wise its about cali. manning up for him self.

Initiating sex is one thing, just taking it is another.

Please continue to intiate sex no matter what. listen to BBW and make these changes. You may find with theses changes it will pay off and you will be having sex again.

As you have proven to your self, not initiating sex will get you no were.

Make the changes in your self and see were it goes. I think the both of you are at rock bottom now so theres no were else but up.

You mention some of the things you have done and it impacted your wife, right? Well it makes sense to read up and do the foot work to resovle the proplem with her by looking into what you can do for your self that will cause a positve reaction with your wife. Like receprocating your sexual advances


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## Sawney Beane

the guy said:


> Manning up isn't about his W issues, psycho or other wise its about cali. manning up for him self.


Read what Athol Kay has written time and again on his blog: this doesn't work in a situation that needs medical help. 

Second, read again what Deejo said: not everything is a sh1t test. Therefore, reacting to everything as if it IS a sh1t test doesn't work. They say if you only own a hammer, every task looks like a nail, so make sure you have enough different tools in the toolbox, not merely a selection of different sized hammers.


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## the guy

SB-
That is some solid sh!t and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for opening up my closed point of view.

Being a carpenter, the analogy with the tools hit its mark.

Thanks again it totaly makes sense.


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## alphaomega

MEM11363 said:


> I 100,000 percent disagree with this.
> 
> It is toxic for your marriage for you to keep initiating sex in the face of steady rejection. Do NOT do that.
> 
> It sends the message that a very harsh type rejection is "really no big deal". It implies "you don't matter".


Why? He's the one getting angry and upset for getting rejected. If he starts acting the man and she rejects him and he doesn't give a sh$t, then the message is ' I'm alpha enough not to get upset when u reject me because your NOT on a pedestal and you don't control my feelings"

What he's doing right now is staying away from advancing towards her out of punishment. 

What you are explaining sounds like he should stay on the resentful train because she's being a gatekeeper. Me, I would try to initiate as often as I could. If, after many many attempts he's still not getting laid, THEN he can decide if he wants to be a monk or go find someone where he can get his monkey freak on as much as he wants
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane

alphaomega said:


> Why? He's the one getting angry and upset for getting rejected. If he starts acting the man and she rejects him and he doesn't give a sh$t, then the message is ' I'm alpha enough not to get upset when u reject me because your NOT on a pedestal and you don't control my feelings"


I don't want to put words in MEM's mouth, but my take on why he's absolutely right is that there is a good chance that the message is NOT what you say, but 
"Sex isn't that big a deal, if we never do it, it doesn't bother me".

If THIS is the message that is_ received_, _irrespective_ of whether that's the one you're trying to _send_, you reinforce the view that sex doesn't matter and if she doesn't make any effort to change, you won't care. The same message can be read not as being alpha and not bothered but totally _BETA_ and not bothered.

You have to gauge the reaction between nonchalant enough to make sure she doesn't feel she has control because she's withholding, but sufficiently bothered that she cannot pretend you'll take being knocked bad in perpetuity without some consequence.


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## Sawney Beane

the guy said:


> SB-
> That is some solid sh!t and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for opening up my closed point of view.
> 
> Being a carpenter, the analogy with the tools hit its mark.
> 
> Thanks again it totaly makes sense.


Glad to be of service!


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## RandomDude

=/
Well for me I just keep poking until the atom splits; the missus is surprisingly easier to deal with when she's mad!

But for you, looks like she's been walking all over you, blames you for everything, is extremely bitter, and rather... unbearable really. So it's about time you stopped playing Mr. Nice Guy, and let the mushroom cloud cleanse your worries! Either it gets better or it breaks, you don't want to be stuck with this mate.

There are a ton of threads on the men's clubhouse and one in particular mentioned how to deal with your wife during arguments, I recommend reading it.


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## ManDup

Sawney Beane said:


> I don't want to put words in MEM's mouth, but my take on why he's absolutely right is that there is a good chance that the message is NOT what you say, but
> "Sex isn't that big a deal, if we never do it, it doesn't bother me".
> 
> If THIS is the message that is_ received_, _irrespective_ of whether that's the one you're trying to _send_, you reinforce the view that sex doesn't matter and if she doesn't make any effort to change, you won't care. The same message can be read not as being alpha and not bothered but totally _BETA_ and not bothered.
> 
> You have to gauge the reaction between nonchalant enough to make sure she doesn't feel she has control because she's withholding, but sufficiently bothered that she cannot pretend you'll take being knocked bad in perpetuity without some consequence.


Sure, but being petulant about it won't help either, which is what was happening at first. Then totally indifferent, as in never approaching. You need a balanced approach, but you should ask, and if she constantly rejects, she should calmly be told of the consequences of a sexless marriage, as in I won't be in one. Pouting is of no help at all.


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## Conrad

Initiating sex when she's treating you badly is a physical way of saying "thank you" for bad treatment.

Whatever you want more of - you subsidize.

If she gets affection and attention for beatching?

You'll get more of the same.


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## joshbjoshb

I agree with whoever said that not everything is sh!t test, some are really coming from some emotinal issue.

I am still not sure though how you get your wife to get some help.


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## alphaomega

Conrad said:


> Initiating sex when she's treating you badly is a physical way of saying "thank you" for bad treatment.
> 
> Whatever you want more of - you subsidize.
> 
> If she gets affection and attention for beatching?
> 
> You'll get more of the same.


I have to argue this in this instance. He stopped initiating out of anger. Yes. Shes behaving badly. But he needs to man up and set boundaries for this behavior. If he remains passive then not initiating is going to have the message " I don't want to correct you, plus I'm scared of initiating. Which means I'm scared to have sex with you. "

Start passing tests. Start initiating. Start being the captain of the ship. This all has to be done together in unison to SHOW her he's now taking back control of this ship and things are about to change for the better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020

10 years into a marraige without real respect, you chose to have kids. That sent her a powerful message that you felt her behavior was acceptable. 

There are ways to address this but it will take a year and some real dermination.



californiathought said:


> I am trying to get some perspective from some others, so I am going to type away.
> 
> My wife of about 12 years has some great qualities, but she has real trouble enjoying yourself, and I can only do so much. She complains a lot. Definitely a glass half empty kinda of person.
> 
> She will go totally off on some inconsequential thing; could be as simple as it takes her 20 minutes longer to do something; something where I might have accidentally forgotten to do something so it costs her some time. And she acts like I purposely undermined her and/or don't listen, when really it was just a misunderstanding. She constantly says I don't respect her for a multitude of reasons, mostly because of minor incidents, some she digs up out of her memory from 1,2,4 even 8 years ago. I don't feel that is the case and tell her, but she thinks my words are cheap.
> 
> She *never* apologizes. Never. I don't she has ever apologized to me once. Obviously in 12 years of marriage, something must have been your fault, right? Meanwhile she insists on me apologizing for every perceived slight.
> 
> For sex, I was so tired of everything had to be her way, and if something turned me on that she didn't like, it was perverted. I mean, I am talking like she wear sexy lingerie, or heels, not crazy sh*t. So finally I took that attitude of, fine, whatever, you come to me for sex. So we haven't been having much sex, and of course she blames me for us having a crappy sex life now.
> 
> She is very controlling, and it frustrates her to no end that I don't let her control me. I still do things with my friends, and have certain hobbies and music I like, that she doesn't like that I like (not just that she doesn't like them herself). One time we were arguing and she was just yelling and yelling and finally to get her off of me I literally had to shout back louder, "You will not dominate me!" She was so taken aback, she finally shut up. But the fact I had to shout that shows how controlling she wants to be.
> 
> We have twins about 2 years old, and she is stay at home. I work long long hours (minimum 50 hours a week, sometimes as much as 80) to provide for the family, but it's the old story of I don't do enough. I don't clean the house enough, mostly. Granted she does most of the laundry and cleaning, and watches the kid during the day, but I do my own laundry, and do about a third of the housecleaning. But I also take care of the yard and the maintenance of the house. So lots of painting and this and that. In the course of owning our house (5 years) I feel like I have put on 120 gallons of primer and paint and varnish. But she discounts this as one and done kind of chores, not regular work like laundry. And carpentry work, this and that. You know how it is when you own a house.
> 
> She constantly complains and then sometimes gets in one of her moods that she never should have married me. She used to throw the divorce word around, until it pissed me off so much that I was like, fine, lets do it. Now she doesn't use the divorce word.
> 
> I used to have a temper and we would get in shouting matches, but now that we have kids, I don't want them to learn that, so I speak during a disagreement to her evenly and calmly about 95% of the time (the other 5% I still can't take it and shout or snip back). I thought that it would wear off on her, but and it has to some degree, but she still goes off sometimes.
> 
> What can I do to make her less of a complainer? We are fortunate to have healthy babies, financially secure, no debt except a mortgage and car payment. A lot to be happy about. We take vacations and travel, which we enjoy; but there is something about the pressure of making flights or needing to get someplace that sometimes sets her off. Some little driving mistake that costs us 5 minutes can make her totally lose it. I am the sort of person that is like, oops, that wasn't the right street, it's an alley. Oh well, let's turn around and get back on the right road, and I will find the funny in it. In her sometimes it just makes her seethe.
> 
> She is habitually late as well. Another passive/aggressive trait. She constantly brings up something that pisses her off from years ago in an argument, like maybe I recycled some old magazines that she didn't want recycled. Mundane stuff like that.
> 
> I admittedly have given up buying her gifts, because they are never right. Usually now for her birthday or anniversary she buys something for herself and then gives it to me to give to her. Whatever, I say to that. Recently I bought us tickets to a concert to a band I knew she liked, and she was like, why did you do that?? I would have rather seen a different band that was playing a few months ago, why didn't you think of that? Afterwards going to the band I did buy tickets for she did say she had a great time.
> 
> She also is a procrastinator and blames me for her not getting things done. Ironically she loves scheduling and listing and planning for things, while I have more of a go with the flow style.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to make this glass half empty wife less negative? Am I missing something?


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## alphaomega

MEM11363 said:


> 10 years into a marraige without real respect, you chose to have kids. That sent her a powerful message that you felt her behavior was acceptable.
> 
> There are ways to address this but it will take a year and some real dermination.


Yeah. But think of the outcome shaking up that pot after cooking away for 12+ years. It would be an epic battle of wills to the likes of MMF cage fighting !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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