# Libido vs arousal?



## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a question. In our 6 month marriage my wife and I have had sex 5 times. And 0 times in the last 3 1/2 months. We had a discussion about this a couple of weeks ago and she completely blames her lack of drive on her anxiety meds. Which I understand completely. 

From what I understand about the human mind/body. Sex drive or libido is how often a person thinks about sex and/or wants it. Whereas arousal is a physiological response to some sort of sexual stimuli. For instance kissing, groping, visual ques, ect. causing vaginal lubrication or a male erection.

Here's my question. Does the fact that my wifes anxiety meds kill her sex drive mean that she can't become aroused if she wanted or enjoy sex?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I posted this in your other thread. How is this different from what you are asking? If you do not get her to "prioritize you" soon, you are going to live a celibate life. And yes this is about being prioritized. If the average "LD" partner refuses to allow their HD partner to arouse them when they are in the mood, the result IS a sexless marriage. Not "it might be", it "will be" a sexless marriage - meaning less than 10 times a year. Which is actually worse than zero because you are always hoping and almost always disappointed.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
YB,
You might want to have a whole different conversation with her and it goes like this:

I accept that your desire level is way lower than mine. In order for us to come to a compromise that works for both of us, we need to come up with a way for you to help me learn how to get you in the mood, when you start out feeling no desire. Maybe that starts with a massage, maybe a long round of kissing. The idea that you have to "start out" feeling horny is not going to work because you almost never do. If you love me, you will make the effort for us to find a way to "get you in the mood" and I need you to show that commitment to the marriage. 

And then shut up and let her talk. Ultimately if my W of 20+ years had said "sex only happens when I start out feeling horny" she would be my ex-wife because that is a very selfish thing to say in a marriage.

YB - if you aren't careful she is going to continue to totally deprioritize your needs. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>





YoungBuck said:


> I have a question. In our 6 month marriage my wife and I have had sex 5 times. And 0 times in the last 3 1/2 months. We had a discussion about this a couple of weeks ago and she completely blames her lack of drive on her anxiety meds. Which I understand completely.
> 
> From what I understand about the human mind/body. Sex drive or libido is how often a person thinks about sex and/or wants it. Whereas arousal is a physiological response to some sort of sexual stimuli. For instance kissing, groping, visual ques, ect. causing vaginal lubrication or a male erection.
> 
> ...


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## DennisNLA (Jan 26, 2010)

I agree with mem. You need to have an open and honest conversation about your needs and sex. Your wife is the only person on this planet that can meet your need for sexual intimacy. Talk to her, and tell her that she needs to meet this emotional need for you. There are many acts she can do even if she is not in the mood. Make these acceptable for you. 

Youngbuck you also need to make sure you are meeting her emotional needs in the marriage, be the best husband you can be.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Look this is why I won't take anxiety meds. I still want to have sex I just can't enjoy it. It messes up my ability to orgasm easily. I still want my husband though. It's just not as much fun for me. I agree with MEM if you don't get her to prioritize you soon this will not end well.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

Has she been back to the doctor? She really needs to talk to her doctor about this as well, in addition to the suggestions you've been given.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I hate pills!

They solve me this problem, but then they bring me a different problem. 

I take pills to cure my dizziness, but then I have stomachaches. 

I take pills to prevent myself from getting pregnant, but then I feel dizzy! 

Now I just do my best not to take pills! 

For emotional problems, I study wisdom! 

For physical health, I do my best to eat healthy! Hope I don't get sick!


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

If my wife and I had sex only when she was horny, we would probably have sex twice a year. 
Fortunately she understands this doesn't work in a marriage, so despite her low libido, she makes an effort to have sex more routinely with me. I know she's not in the mood, and would probably rather be sleeping than having sex - but because she loves me and knows its important to me - she prioritizes it. 
I know its not ideal, and I wish she was crazy horny and had sex with me out of some carnal hunger or desire to be with me instead of duty - but I can appreciate the effort she is making. 
And usually, it works out, she normally ends up getting in the mood, and the sex turns out to be good - usually. 
But we are both making compromises for this to work. I lower my expectations of her being my own personal nympho-porn star and she makes an effort to initiate sex fairly regularly (the idea is at least once a week) and to not just go through the motions but put some passion into it. 
I would say now, after a decade of marriage, we've finally come to a place that sex really isn't a source of contention anymore.


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## Nicbrownn80 (Mar 20, 2011)

no it does not.

But as most women if your not in the mood then its harder to become in the mood, if you get what I mean


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

YB I am not taking anxiety meds but I have a lower labido than my high drive husband. He does not ask for sex that's how I like it. It he waited for me to desire sex spontaneously it may be 1 time a week. He needs 4 - 5 times a wk. 

We compromise on 3 times sometines 4. Since desire does not come spontaneously for me, my husband arrouses me by a slow approach first non-sexual caresses then progresses to sexual and within 10 mins, I feel desire and we are off to the races. We worked out what I need to become arroused by trail and error. 

I really believe that even though desire is not spontaneous for some men and women, it can be coaxed to life. But, the person has to be open to this approarch and the partner has to know what to do. I think that some men are two abrupt in their approach, groping a woman's butt or breast is not foreplay it may anger and annoy. Going for the genatals too soon, may also be a turn off. 

Do you think this approach would work for your wife. Why not come up with a plan in stead of just a nebulous talk. Also, I know many men want the woman to initiate so that he feels she desires him. That is natural, I have not been able to do that but I find my husband very sexually attractive. I am working on it. Try not to expect her to initiate for now work on the warm up first then on initiation.

I hope you both can get the ball rolling. You know your wife's personality, may I suggest that you don't ask for sex just warm her up? Let her know that you want to try that as an approach. 

Try not to be put off by her initial disinterest. If indeed this does occur, i think as a mature woman she should be welcoming to the man she loves. Any thing less is disrespectful and something you should discuss with her frankly. If she can be cuteous to a clerk in a department store, why can't her husband expect the same? If this indeed occurs, it may be something you want to bring up, in a gentle non-accusatory way. 

Point out that you would not treat her that way and she should certainly not treat you, the man she claims to love, especially at a sensitive time. Some compassion and empathy towards her husband is not too much to ask.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I posted this in your other thread. How is this different from what you are asking? If you do not get her to "prioritize you" soon, you are going to live a celibate life. And yes this is about being prioritized. If the average "LD" partner refuses to allow their HD partner to arouse them when they are in the mood, the result IS a sexless marriage. Not "it might be", it "will be" a sexless marriage - meaning less than 10 times a year. Which is actually worse than zero because you are always hoping and almost always disappointed.
> 
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> ...


Yesterday I got the nerve and had this conversation with my wife. I tried to go about it very calmly and tried not to accuse her too much. I pretty much used your example word for word and I suggested the "how to get you in the mood" thing aswell. After I was done explaining it to her I added "this HAS to change". Then she said "or else what?" and I didn't respond. She started crying and pretty much shut me out.

I got her to finally start talking a little. And she said she didn't know what the answer was. So I suggested maybe we go see a counselor, she said absolutely not. Then I asked her if I was fulfilling all of her needs and she said "yes but none of mine would make or break us." Which made me feel like ****. ( but what she doesn't realize is her needs have been met for the last 4 1/2 years while mine have not.)

So what I got from that conversation was: I don't know what to do, I'm not willing to work on it and you're being unreasonable.

Cath, I've been told several times (way before marriage) that a woman is like an oven and a man is like a microwave. So I've always tried to start out rubbing/scratching her back, kissing on her shoulders, moving my hands all over her body (while avoiding the good bits), playing with her hair, kissing her neck ect. To which she usually just lays there motionless not giving any hint that she even enjoys it. When I ask if she does she says yes but otherwise I wouldn't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Gave my wifey a great big hug and kissed her neck and told her to drive safely since the weather was bad. Got no reaction. Zero point zero. No movement, no twitch, no words, nada. Well, didn't want to delay her, so I let her go, she drove off. End of story. What-ever.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Gave my wifey a great big hug and kissed her neck and told her to drive safely since the weather was bad. Got no reaction. Zero point zero. No movement, no twitch, no words, nada. Well, didn't want to delay her, so I let her go, she drove off. End of story. What-ever.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

YoungBuck said:


> Yesterday I got the nerve and had this conversation with my wife. I tried to go about it very calmly and tried not to accuse her too much. I pretty much used your example word for word and I suggested the "how to get you in the mood" thing aswell. After I was done explaining it to her I added "this HAS to change". Then she said "or else what?" and I didn't respond. She started crying and pretty much shut me out.
> 
> I got her to finally start talking a little. And she said she didn't know what the answer was. So I suggested maybe we go see a counselor, she said absolutely not. Then I asked her if I was fulfilling all of her needs and she said "yes but none of mine would make or break us." Which made me feel like ****. ( but what she doesn't realize is her needs have been met for the last 4 1/2 years while mine have not.)
> 
> ...


Maybe you've already answered this and I missed it, but was she interested in sex at all before you got married? What about when you first got married?

What she's doing is precisely what I did with my husband for the first 4 years of our marriage. I was completely unresponsive to him and nothing he did could turn me on. However, in my case, it was a situation of guilt issues and holding myself back. In her case, I'm still suspecting the medication to be the primary factor.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

That was a kind thing to do. You are a good guy. Her response is all about her ummm issues.




Runs like Dog said:


> Gave my wifey a great big hug and kissed her neck and told her to drive safely since the weather was bad. Got no reaction. Zero point zero. No movement, no twitch, no words, nada. Well, didn't want to delay her, so I let her go, she drove off. End of story. What-ever.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

YB,
That took real courage, pat yourself on the back. I am old, and have spent my time doing a lot of reading and this is what I have learned. 

A loveless marriage where BOTH people have become indifferent to each others needs is not positive but it is not necessarily toxic. What happens is that both people find a way to get most of what they need from life outside the marriage. Now for the HD partner this is a much bigger loss in quality of life than it is for the LD partner. But you can still be sane and at least not actively unhappy. 

However, the people who slowly get destroyed in a marriage are the ones who keep loving their partner despite getting little or no love back. Doing THAT will slowly and relentlessly turn you into an angry, bitter person because it will feel so unfair because actually it IS unfair. 

There is one step you MUST take at this point so that you can give yourself time to think. Make sure if you have ANY sexual contact with your W you wear a condom. Do not take any chance of her getting pregnant until you have had a long time to think about whether or not you can live in a loveless/sexless marriage with a W who has now directly told you she has no interest in making the effort to really SHOW you love so that you FEEL loved. 

If you have even one child with her, she will be utterly certain that that means you will accept a sexless marriage for the rest of your life. Give yourself some time to think about that. 

In the meantime you might want to ask yourself a question. Are you willing to dedicate YOUR life to making someone else happy when they clearly are comfortable with YOU being actively unhappy in the process?



YoungBuck said:


> Yesterday I got the nerve and had this conversation with my wife. I tried to go about it very calmly and tried not to accuse her too much. I pretty much used your example word for word and I suggested the "how to get you in the mood" thing aswell. After I was done explaining it to her I added "this HAS to change". Then she said "or else what?" and I didn't respond. She started crying and pretty much shut me out.
> 
> I got her to finally start talking a little. And she said she didn't know what the answer was. So I suggested maybe we go see a counselor, she said absolutely not. Then I asked her if I was fulfilling all of her needs and she said "yes but none of mine would make or break us." Which made me feel like ****. ( but what she doesn't realize is her needs have been met for the last 4 1/2 years while mine have not.)
> 
> ...


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

YoungBuck said:


> I have a question. In our 6 month marriage my wife and I have had sex 5 times. And 0 times in the last 3 1/2 months. We had a discussion about this a couple of weeks ago and she completely blames her lack of drive on her anxiety meds. Which I understand completely.
> 
> From what I understand about the human mind/body. Sex drive or libido is how often a person thinks about sex and/or wants it. Whereas arousal is a physiological response to some sort of sexual stimuli. For instance kissing, groping, visual ques, ect. causing vaginal lubrication or a male erection.
> 
> ...


 I have never been on those kinds of meds, but I have been facing some hormonal issues because of menopause that have definitely physiologically affected my ability to become aroused, even when my husband does all the right things that should arouse me and use to before. So the simple answer is yes, I believe that there are many things (including medications) that can physiologically affect the ability to be aroused even if she does want it or enjoys it and even desires it. I have discovered that I can desire to be aroused all I want to, but if the body won't work, sometimes it just won't work!!!  

However, I have learned that the brain is our biggest sex organ and sometimes there are ways to "trick our bodies" (for lack of a better term)! In my case the hormonal issues going on in my body took away my body's physical ability to respond the way it use to respond. So I now have to find new ways to try to "trick" it into responding and because of that fact, it now takes a lot more work on my part to become aroused. My body doesn't just do it naturally anymore. and I have to constantly work (very hard) to try to get it to work. My husband and I, both, have had to learn to become more creative and open minded. What use to work, does not anymore. What use to feel really good, now doesn't feel good at all or has no feeling. My body no longer responds on its on so we have to find ways to use my brain and ways to use all of my senses to fill in some of the voids. 

While my husband has been a part of this whole process of learning and trying new things, the reality is that most of the work has had to be done by me because it is my body. So there are ways to overcome the arousal issue, but both you and your wife will have to research and work very hard to find solutions. And you may even need to see a sex therapist (which I highly recommend if you have the money).

Has your wife talked to her doctor about this specific side effect? Are there other medications available that don't have the same effect? How was the sex before she went on the meds?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> That was a kind thing to do. You are a good guy. Her response is all about her ummm issues.


Thank you.


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> YB,
> 
> 
> However, the people who slowly get destroyed in a marriage are the ones who keep loving their partner despite getting little or no love back. Doing THAT will slowly and relentlessly turn you into an angry, bitter person because it will feel so unfair because actually it IS unfair.
> ...


I'm glad you brought this up because it put into words something else I've been feeling lately. I've always been pro having children with her. But lately every time I think about it, my heart sinks. I get a feeling of being completely trapped.

Mgirl, we did something that now, I would never suggest to anyone. We half-assed waited till marriage to have sex. We failed a handful of times, but really did abstain. The first two years we mostly did HJs and a couple of oral (that includes her).
Probably once every two weeks?

Then it slowed down to once every 1 to 2 months. But she didn't start on her meds until about 6 mo before the wedding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

YoungBuck said:


> I'm glad you brought this up because it put into words something else I've been feeling lately. I've always been pro having children with her. But lately every time I think about it, my heart sinks. I get a feeling of being completely trapped.
> 
> Mgirl, we did something that now, I would never suggest to anyone. We half-assed waited till marriage to have sex. We failed a handful of times, but really did abstain. The first two years we mostly did HJs and a couple of oral (that includes her).
> Probably once every two weeks?
> ...


Were you abstaining because she just wasn't interested or because you both wanted to wait? 

What did she think about sex in general before the meds? 

Ditto on what MEM said about being ultra cautious about preventing pregnancy.


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

Well we were both raised in church together. So I guess you could say religious reasons. But our biggest reason was if she got pregnant out of wedlock she would have gotten fired from her job.
Thinking about sex. She was very naive before me. She has never even masturbated, and she claims to not have any fantasies. So anything she thinks about sex is because of me. So I've made sure she Is satisfied every time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

YoungBuck said:


> Well we were both raised in church together. So I guess you could say religious reasons. But our biggest reason was if she got pregnant out of wedlock she would have gotten fired from her job.
> 
> Thinking about sex. She was very naive before me. She has never even masturbated, and she claims to not have any fantasies. So anything she thinks about sex is because of me. So I've made sure she Is satisfied every time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Naive or shameful? Did she truly just have no interest sexually or did she believe that masturbation/anything sex-related is sinful? Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish between the two.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

YoungBuck said:


> Thinking about sex. She was very naive before me. She has never even masturbated, and she claims to not have any fantasies. So anything she thinks about sex is because of me. So I've made sure she Is satisfied every time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This struck a bell with me... My wife had never masturbated (and never did as long as we were married, AFAIK), and claimed to not have any fantasies. She was, in general, rather disinterested in sex. I faced regular rejection when I initiated, and if I let things go on her schedule, we degraded to once a month pretty easily.

I never did find a way to get past that hurdle. Sorry to not have good advice for you. Just saying I can sympathize with you.

C


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

She's kind of a little girl when it comes to some things. I asked her if she thought sex, masturbation, oral was wrong she said no she just thinks masturbation is gross. When I talk to her about things like that, its always as if she's never even thought about it. Like she has no opebeninion, and has never even considered it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

YoungBuck said:


> I have a question. In our 6 month marriage my wife and I have had sex 5 times. And 0 times in the last 3 1/2 months.


Does not compute. 

At our worst (least amount of sex), we had sex 2x a week. And we'd been together for yrs. 

Unfortunately, I don't see it getting better for you if you both aren't willing to put forth the effort. It takes two, baby!


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

YoungBuck said:


> So I suggested maybe we go see a counselor, she said absolutely not.


What is her reasoning for not seeing a counselor?



YoungBuck said:


> So what I got from that conversation was: I don't know what to do, I'm not willing to work on it and you're being unreasonable.


No matter what is going on, whether it be meds, naturally low sex drive, or guilt issues, she is being extremely selfish in refusing to try to makes things work. She is refusing to even *try* to see things from your point of view and will not recognize that this is a real and valid problem for you. Your marriage is currently about her and her needs only. 

If she is unwilling to work on the marriage with you, the marriage *will not work.*

MEM's advice to you is spot on. Re-read it and commit it to memory.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MGirl said:


> She is refusing to even *try* to see things from your point of view and will not recognize that this is a real and valid problem for you. Your marriage is currently about her and her needs only.
> 
> If she is unwilling to work on the marriage with you, the marriage *will not work.*


This says it all. Seriously. It takes a joint effort to solve problems in a marriage. One person cannot do it alone.


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

The counselor issue I dunno. She doesn't like being put in awkward situations is my only guess. Either that or she doesn't think it's that big of an issue. She did act like I was being unreasonable. She probably has the same skewed view on male sexuality that so many other women do. Men just want sex to get their rocks off. 

So what's my next step? Should I wait for some change? Should I end it as soon as possible? Should I keep pestering her? 

The thought of ending a 6 mo marriage seems embarrassing beyond belief. We are both well known and involved within the church. Most of my friends were hers first so I would probably lose them. Her grandmother whom I like very much, just spent easily 40 grand on our wedding. This is crazy. : (

But I know you are all right. She is very stubborn and even if she knew it was wrong probably wouldn't change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

PBear said:


> This struck a bell with me... My wife had never masturbated (and never did as long as we were married, AFAIK), and claimed to not have any fantasies. She was, in general, rather disinterested in sex. I faced regular rejection when I initiated, and if I let things go on her schedule, we degraded to once a month pretty easily.
> 
> I never did find a way to get past that hurdle. Sorry to not have good advice for you. Just saying I can sympathize with you.
> 
> C


Are you still married to that same woman?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

YB,
I am going to help you with this because you clearly are a sincere guy and you have a conscience. Now what I am about to say is not only true, but it is fair. 

You made an honest mistake. If you truly have recognized that having kids will trap you in a broken marriage in a very real sense, then you will avoid having kids until the marriage gradually breaks down in an ugly way. It turns out that prolonging this process is much more harmful to her than it is to you for two reasons:
1. Her window for procreation is much smaller than yours
2. Marital demographics are much more favorable to young women then older women. I don't know why but the pool of "eligible" males shrinks in comparison to females as the years pass. 

That said, if this is not a viable marriage, the sooner it ends the better it will be for her. 

I am however going to warn you that the extraction process will be very painful and somewhat complicated. Because when you let her know I believe she is likely to promise to change. The problem with that her promise will have nothing to do with "you" and everything to do with her. I say that because if "you" and "your happiness" actually mattered she would be trying different meds, seeing a MC with you, and actively working on what is clearly a huge happiness issue for you. But instead she is letting you know that you are the one with the "problem" and that she is fine with the way things are. 
- A great W makes the EFFORT to meet your needs/desires because she loves you and is committed to being a great partner. Your happiness is to a large degree her happiness. 
- A good W makes the effort to avoid denying your needs/desires because they do not like seeing you unhappy. Your sadness, to some degree is their sadness. 
- A mediocre W when pressed is willing to meet your minimum needs because at some level she knows that is fair, even though she isn't doing it out of love, but a moderate level of commitment. 
- A BAD W plays the game of "willful" incomprehension. She literally pretends to not understand how important various things are to you, because she does not want to be bothered. The only thing she responds to is a direct and credible threat of divorce. 

I think you are going to get a sudden "willingness" to make an effort if you bring up divorce. But that won't be a loving response. Instead it will be a "fear" response, the fear of being alone. And that is no basis for a marriage. 

Switch genders and the stuff above is just as true. 




YoungBuck said:


> The counselor issue I dunno. She doesn't like being put in awkward situations is my only guess. Either that or she doesn't think it's that big of an issue. She did act like I was being unreasonable. She probably has the same skewed view on male sexuality that so many other women do. Men just want sex to get their rocks off.
> 
> So what's my next step? Should I wait for some change? Should I end it as soon as possible? Should I keep pestering her?
> 
> ...


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm afraid yet another example where certain types of religion can actually be detrimental.
I am a Chriatian and a believer. I am also a realist. 

I believe in the 10 commandments...'Thou shalt not steal'...correct. But if someone is poor, has no money, is starving and takes a loaf of bread from a shop and doesn't pay...in law ('dishonestly appropriate property belonging to an other with the intention to permanently deprive'.....or 'Thou shalt not steal') is an offence.

But hey!! Come on, the chap was starving! When I was a police officer this sort of theft was very challenging to deal with...

When you buy a car, you take it for a test drive first...if it doesn't fit right you don't buy it.

Sex before marriage and adultery is wrong. But so is divorce. 
As sex is such an important part of marriage (just look at the posts here) I would strongly recommend that couples live together and have an active sex life with each other before they stand before God and say 'I do'. 
Those that don't run into exactly the sorts of problems YP is facing now. 
Its a bit late now because they have said 'I do'. A marriage is a package...'in sickness and in health', 'with my body I thee honour' etc....If one or other partner fails to keep a part of the deal, and 'with my body I thee honour' means sharing it with your partner, then the other, IMO has every right to end the marriage.

Sermon over!

YP - please think very very carefully before having children. Just read all the posts on TAM...almost every person with sexual issues says they started AFTER children came along. If your wife has psychological issues about sex now, the likelyhood is that they will get worse after childbirth. 
Divorcing when there are no cjildren involved is so much easier.

Good luck!


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> YB,
> I am going to help you with this because you clearly are a sincere guy and you have a conscience. Now what I am about to say is not only true, but it is fair.
> 
> You made an honest mistake. If you truly have recognized that having kids will trap you in a broken marriage in a very real sense, then you will avoid having kids until the marriage gradually breaks down in an ugly way. It turns out that prolonging this process is much more harmful to her than it is to you for two reasons:
> ...


I know you are right. I've not felt the same towards her since our very first conversation about this. She told me that every time we've had sex since we were married is because she felt bad. That in my mind equates to pity sex. And she said that included our WEDDING NIGHT, and the 1 time on our week long honeymoon. I've been pretty broken up over that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

YoungBuck said:


> I know you are right. I've not felt the same towards her since our very first conversation about this. She told me that every time we've had sex since we were married is because she felt bad. That in my mind equates to pity sex. And she said that included our WEDDING NIGHT, and the 1 time on our week long honeymoon. I've been pretty broken up over that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MEM is right. If you do decide to break it off and she promises to change do NOT, and I repeat do NOT get your hopes up. My wife and I have had that very conversation several times over the last two years and she promises to change and "do better". The frequency increases for about two weeks then we are back to sex once every 1-4 months with some "relief" activities thrown in every few weeks in between. If you can live with that then stay, otherwise, get the hell out. Unless of course, you enjoy being called a sex maniac because you persue sex ever two weeks. :scratchhead:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You are very realistic which is incredibly valuable in a situation like this. 

If you get to the point where you think you are ready to have "the talk" with her, I can make some suggestions for you on how to do it in a manner that is fair to both of you. You are going to need to prepare yourself though. For instance after the talk she may want you to hold her and comfort her. You absolutely should do that. 

She also may initiate sex - you need to be prepared for that and you need to tell her that you love her and desire her but that your heart is no longer in the marriage and that it would just confuse things if you did that. And be firm on that. There is no "closure" from having sex with someone who has never wanted to from your wedding night forward. All it will do is cause more turmoil for both of you. 

She may get really angry at you if you reject her - just hold her and tell her you are sorry that things have turned out so badly and that you will support her through this difficult period. 

As for everyone else in your social circle when they ask you can just say you had some irreconcilable differences. And when some of them "pry" and they will just give them a puzzled smile and say "I hope you can support my "stbx" because this has been hard for both of us and I know she needs your friendship more than ever"

As for whose idea was it - you and she should agree in advance how to answer that and just stick to that script. 



YoungBuck said:


> I know you are right. I've not felt the same towards her since our very first conversation about this. She told me that every time we've had sex since we were married is because she felt bad. That in my mind equates to pity sex. And she said that included our WEDDING NIGHT, and the 1 time on our week long honeymoon. I've been pretty broken up over that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

PBear said:


> My wife had never masturbated (and never did as long as we were married, AFAIK), and claimed to not have any fantasies. She was, in general, rather disinterested in sex. I faced regular rejection when I initiated, and if I let things go on her schedule, we degraded to once a month pretty easily.


I have heard this & read this countless times. I have 2 wonderful sons who want to wait till marraige to have sex- they are doing the whole Purity ring thing, they are nice resepctable Christian boys. I tell my oldest when he gets that girl he is "courting" (he is holding out for one right now -hoping) that he NEEDS to be sure to discuss sexual matters if he is not going to engage in them. 

And IF she has never masterbated (hopefully it won't be too embarrassing to discuss!) or doesn't have SEXUAL fantasies-- to seriously reconsider staying with her - infact I would tell him to RUN LIKE HE** --because he can pretty much count on it -like the sun comes up every morning, he will be miserable in the bedroom, it is too much of a common theme. There should be a pleasurable craving there, or something is just not right. 

Women who LIKE sex do both of these.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have heard this & read this countless times. I have 2 wonderful sons who want to wait till marraige to have sex- they are doing the whole Purity ring thing, they are nice resepctable Christian boys. I tell my oldest when he gets that girl he is "courting" (he is holding out for one right now -hoping) that he NEEDS to be sure to discuss sexual matters if he is not going to engage in them.
> 
> And IF she has never masterbated (hopefully it won't be too embarrassing to discuss!) or doesn't have SEXUAL fantasies-- to seriously reconsider staying with her - in fact I would tell him to RUN LIKE HE** --because he can pretty much count on it -like the sun comes up every morning, he will be miserable in the bedroom, it is too much of a common theme. There should be a pleasurable craving there, or something is just not right.
> 
> Women who LIKE sex do both of these.


:iagree::iagree:

Well said, SA. This entire thread just breaks my heart. 

DH and I did pre-marital counseling with our pastor, but he skirted around the issue of sex almost completely. I wish he wouldn't have. We *could have* been completely incompatible, sexually. _Thankfully_, we weren't. It just took awhile for me to come around. Couples HAVE to know who they're marrying and I truly believe that some sort of sexual desire for your partner is necessary.


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have heard this & read this countless times. I have 2 wonderful sons who want to wait till marraige to have sex- they are doing the whole Purity ring thing, they are nice resepctable Christian boys. I tell my oldest when he gets that girl he is "courting" (he is holding out for one right now -hoping) that he NEEDS to be sure to discuss sexual matters if he is not going to engage in them.
> 
> And IF she has never masterbated (hopefully it won't be too embarrassing to discuss!) or doesn't have SEXUAL fantasies-- to seriously reconsider staying with her - infact I would tell him to RUN LIKE HE** --because he can pretty much count on it -like the sun comes up every morning, he will be miserable in the bedroom, it is too much of a common theme. There should be a pleasurable craving there, or something is just not right.
> 
> Women who LIKE sex do both of these.


Wow! I'm going to tell every buddy of mine that from now on. That's so true.

MEM, thanks for all of the advice. You have really helped me with this issue. Now I don't feel like a selfish ******* like before. Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

YB,
This is the widely accepted view of how humans perceive love:
1. Acts of service - someone making you dinner
2. Words of affirmation - ILY - compliments
3. Gifts
4. Quality time
5. Physical affection including sex

The thing is - in a marriage - if you are not getting enough 1,2,3 or 4 from your spouse, you CAN get it from your friends and family. The rules of marriage allow that. But 5 - you are not allowed to get outside the marriage. So when your W told you there is nothing you could "stop" doing that would cause her much grief she was half right. Because she doesn't care about 5, and can with one exception get 1-4 elsewhere. But her statement is not totally true. If you quit your job and refused to work (which is sort of embedded in (1), she would almost certainly end the marriage. And she would be justified. 

The thing she is denying you - is the most precious thing in a marriage because you are not allowed to get it outside the marriage. So ummm there is a selfish spouse in your marriage but it is not you. 



YoungBuck said:


> Wow! I'm going to tell every buddy of mine that from now on. That's so true.
> 
> MEM, thanks for all of the advice. You have really helped me with this issue. Now I don't feel like a selfish ******* like before. Thanks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

YB, I'm currently separated, with no plans to reconcile. And as an FYI, I've been seeing a lady for a bit now... It's come up in conversation that she found uses for a removable shower head when she was 12, and her fantasy list FAR exceeds mine. . I'm just hoping I can keep up with her!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue Skye (Apr 22, 2011)

This thread makes me sad. I know my H and I have had our ups and downs, but at least we've had times that were "ups".

All I can say, YoungBuck, is that if you do decide that it won't work, that you do what you can so that you can honestly say you tried everything that was in your power to do so. I would hate for you to feel guilty and regret it later. There had to have been a reason why you chose and married your wife.

I'm not familiar with anxiety or anxiety meds, but why haven't you taken the bull by the horns and just marched her to the doctor for a talk about this? (Okay - maybe I'm too used to frog-marching my H to the doctor because he's always reluctant to go.)

Do you have your pastor or an older married couple in your church that could mentor you -- just someone to be able to talk to -- even if it's just you being able to get support right now?

I hope you find a resolution and some peace. Prayers.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Blue,
I am pro-marriage. That said I am pro non-parasitic marriage. Given her behavior to date, it would be an incredible risk for YB to have children with his W. 

She is either incompatible with him, or simply a very bad wife. 

There is an extreme degree of "willful incomprehension" going on here. And sadly that is a sign of great selfishness. 

If he quit his job and she wanted him to seek counseling to get a counselor to explain how important him working is, I would also be telling her to end it. If you need a MC to tell you certain things you are already lost. 




Blue Skye said:


> This thread makes me sad. I know my H and I have had our ups and downs, but at least we've had times that were "ups".
> 
> All I can say, YoungBuck, is that if you do decide that it won't work, that you do what you can so that you can honestly say you tried everything that was in your power to do so. I would hate for you to feel guilty and regret it later. There had to have been a reason why you chose and married your wife.
> 
> ...


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## Blue Skye (Apr 22, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Blue,
> I am pro-marriage. That said I am pro non-parasitic marriage. Given her behavior to date, it would be an incredible risk for YB to have children with his W.
> 
> She is either incompatible with him, or simply a very bad wife.
> ...


Yes, I don't know the dynamics of YoungBuck's marriage other than what he has posted, and it is difficult for me to understand pure selfishness on one spouse's part like this.

My concern was more for his state of mind - this has to be very difficult for him and I would want him to be able to approach whatever he decides to do and the end result with a clear conscience.


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

Update:

We'll last week after getting advice from this forum. I was starting to get very nervous about what I was going to do about or marriage. 

I went home and found my wife naked in bed and she made it clear she wanted to have sex. And being deprived over the last few months, I went for it. But because my emotions have been bouncing around the last few weeks I stopped about halfway through and told her I couldn't do it. She got mad and cried the rest of the night. She even slept on the couch (even though I begged her to come to bed and tried to console her). 

Then the next day she sent me an angry text while I was at work. I blew up and said some really hurtful things to her. I've never lost my temper with her or talked to her like I did. So she called me bawling and we both decided we should meet at home to talk this out. We both got some things off our chest, I made my needs VERY clear and she promised to work on her end.

We've actually had sex twice since our fight, and she seems sincere in working on her side of our marriage.

But I've been having some really confusing feelings the last couple of weeks. I keep feeling like my heart isn't in our relationship any more. Even during and after sex, I feel no emotional connection with her. Most of her mannerisms have started to annoy me and I find her physically unattractive. 

Should all of this improve as time goes on? Or is our marriage permanently damaged from this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

YoungBuck said:


> Update:
> 
> We'll last week after getting advice from this forum. I was starting to get very nervous about what I was going to do about or marriage.
> 
> ...


I'm no expert, but I would advise not to throw in the towel here. If she is willing to work with you and make changes, that's a huge improvement!

As far as your feelings and emotions go, I would assume that your mixed emotions and feeling like your heart isn't in it is due to the fact that you really came to grips with the fact that she would *never* change. And you likely don't trust her promises to change, either. You have a right to be cautious. But not discouraging. 

However, it sounds like she's trying to understand and make changes and you have to let yourself adjust to that. Feelings don't change overnight. It took you awhile to get to the point of feeling nothing and it may take longer for you to feel something again. I would classify that as normal. 

Here is what is improving in your marriage:

-You and your wife are communicating with each other
-She is aware of your needs and is showing willingness AND initiative to work on them

I think marriage counseling would be a wonderful tool for you both.

I'm sure MEM has some stellar advice for you, those are just my ramblings


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hmmmm

Please tell me you are wearing a condom. Please. Please. 

If you are wearing and continue to wear a - condom - I think you should give this a fair shot. Lets start with what really happened. Your wife, like many good women has an incredible radar for how YOU feel about her. She started reading a scary level of indifference and magically your needs became important to her. I think you need to have a short talk with her about two things:
1. You are a healthy man with normal desires for marital intimacy - you are not ever going to be agreeable to staying in a sexless marriage. The fact that she tried to convince you that YOU were the one with the problem - is not acceptable behavior. 
2. You are willing to make an effort to find out whether you two are capable of being sexually compatible. That means she is going to need to teach you what feels good, what feels bad. Hint - touching her in a directly sexual way too quickly may feel "bad" to her. But SHE is responsible for teaching you this stuff. You are not a mind reader. If it turns out you are simply not compatible - better to find out now and both of you can start fresh without the added difficulty of being parents. 
3. Kids are off the table until and unless you get to the point where two things are clearly and consistently true:
- She understands the deprioritizing you is not even close to acceptable under any circumstances. If it is important to YOU, by definition it needs to be important to HER.
- She at MINIMUM enjoys the physical closeness of sex

All of this needs to be framed as "I want this to work, however we will BOTH be miserable if we cannot resolve this in a manner that is acceptable to me and I am not going through life miserable". 

Make sense. 











YoungBuck said:


> Update:
> 
> We'll last week after getting advice from this forum. I was starting to get very nervous about what I was going to do about or marriage.
> 
> ...


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## YoungBuck (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Hmmmm
> 
> Please tell me you are wearing a condom. Please. Please.
> 
> ...


Perfect sense. Please tell me you are a doctor or college professor. Your ability to read into others and even your own situations is inspiring. I read that Emotional Judo post last night and it made my evening. Your situation was almost sitcom-ish. It sounds like you and your wife have a very strong and very loving relationship. Thank you for all of the help.

MGirl, when I read your post I immediately knew you were right. My attitude towards my wife is going to take time to improve. Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say, and hearts aren't changed overnight. Thank you for helping make that clear. : )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm so happy for your update. I kept wondering what was going to happen. You may want to schedule an MC appointment if things don't even out a little in the next few months, but you are recently married, so everything is pretty new. 

I agree though with how POWERFUL sex is as an emotional connection. Its not possible for me to feel connected to my wife without it, and afterwards, I'm freshly in love and connected. With time attraction and love will grow back.

Some of the mannerisms being annoying is now you are married and spending a ton of time together. Marriage changes a lot in the first few years. You need to move from infatuation to a more mature love. Infatuation just is. Sexual attraction when dating is just there. Mature love works towards love and sacrifices for the other. It looks past obviously annoying traits. My wife has seriously left the microwave door open about 50-75% of the time she uses it. It took her 3 years before she started to improve on it. There are a ton of other little things that you can either look past as stupid flaws we all have or make a big deal out of. I find it kind of cute now some of the little things. Everyone is human, and I laugh now when the microwave is open more that anything else.

There are a few other things that don't make sense but end up happening. It takes time to understand what makes you feel connected and why.

I've been married about 5 years, and its recently been pretty shocking how insanely attracted I am to my wife, but how little I care attraction wise towards other women now. I've read it happens to a lot of men. I was recently in the gym surrounded by very inshape, good looking women, and would rather just go home and ogle my wife. 

Also, you *NEED* to communicate to your wife that you are on the same side not fighting against her but with her to forge something that works. You both are going to have pretty bruised emotions because of this and you need to make it clear that you still value and appreciate her. If she begins to feel unappreciated (like you were feeling), things get bad FAST.

Best of luck

Oh, if you are religiously inclined, I HIGHLY suggest reading "sacred marriage"


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