# Coping with the affair



## scoot162

I have been married for 20 years with the love of my life. We have 2 wonderful teenage daughters who both are a huge part of our lives. I recently discovered my wife had an affair and crushed me like nothing else has in the past. It started out for her as friends and turned into texting, meeting and physical contact. My wife told me in the past we were starting to draw apart due to much of my involvement with our daughters activities and my commitment to them as well as my job. I told her it is the stage in our lives were they need us the most and soon we will have more time to spend together as they grow more independent. I continued showing my love to my wife by telling her I loved her, special gifts but due to my schedule and lack of alone time together our sex life and alone time took a turn for the worse. I am very confused now because she doesn't seem to take ownership of the affair and seems distant with our girls. I am trying to trust her again but thoughts swirl in my mind. We spent approximately 10 years together prior to having our children and at the time, it was all about us. I was never a father before so I thought I was doing the right thing. I cant imagine someone throwing everything away. I love her so much and cant understand how she could have done this to me. My focus was always on my family and nothing else. If I wasnt at work I was with my family!!!!Can someone help me understand what my wife is going through or has anyone else been through similar situation?


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## badbane

scoot162 said:


> I have been married for 20 years with the love of my life. We have 2 wonderful teenage daughters who both are a huge part of our lives. I recently discovered my wife had an affair and crushed me like nothing else has in the past. It started out for her as friends and turned into texting, meeting and physical contact. My wife told me in the past we were starting to draw apart due to much of my involvement with our daughters activities and my commitment to them as well as my job. I told her it is the stage in our lives were they need us the most and soon we will have more time to spend together as they grow more independent. I continued showing my love to my wife by telling her I loved her, special gifts but due to my schedule and lack of alone time together our sex life and alone time took a turn for the worse. I am very confused now because she doesn't seem to take ownership of the affair and seems distant with our girls. I am trying to trust her again but thoughts swirl in my mind. We spent approximately 10 years together prior to having our children and at the time, it was all about us. I was never a father before so I thought I was doing the right thing. I cant imagine someone throwing everything away. I love her so much and cant understand how she could have done this to me. My focus was always on my family and nothing else. If I wasnt at work I was with my family!!!!Can someone help me understand what my wife is going through or has anyone else been through similar situation?


Your wife is in new relationship fog. It is a fantasy world of sex, shallow puppy love, and selfishness. 
You need to understand you are responsible for the problems in the marriage. You are not responsible for her cheating. I would like to suggest that most of the problems that pop up during this time are directly related to the A. 
Would your wife have pulled away as far if she didn't run to someone else. Would your sex life still be health if she wasn't giving her time and affection to someone else. 

You did what we call rug sweeping. You didn't properly address the issue with the A. I doubt you even know the full extent of the issues. Your post was very vauge on detail so I am just telling you my observation of what you posted. Please give more detail and maybe we can be more specific. it is okay you are anonymous here.


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## SomedayDig

How long did the affair last?

As for what your wife is going through, with her not taking ownership, its as if she's in the affair fog...the one that got her to the point of cheating in the first place. It's a tough place to try to talk to her in, too.

How did you confront her about the affair and have you gotten the information that you need about the affair to help YOU reconcile.

Also, first things first...while you are certainly responsible for 50% of the issues in the marriage, she is 100% responsible for her choice to go outside the marriage. NONE of her affair is YOUR fault. Not in the slightest bit.

Are you both in counseling?


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## SomedayDig

Okay, Badbane...that was spooky that we posted the same stuff at the same time. LOL


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## the guy

If she continues to behave like she was when she was having the affair she still is having the affair.

Investicate,cuz until the Om is completely out of the picture it will continue to have anegitive effect on the marriage.

If she was truelly out of the affair fog and NC with OM was real you would see a difference.

See it hard to show remorse when your still in the affair fog.

Quietly investigate, act normal and get the evidence that will give you the confidence to take the steps you need to take next.

However you found out about the affair the 1st time is no longer a valid source since she may have gone deeper underground.


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## the guy

I guess I'm 2 minutes late, but we all are saying the same thing.

Affair fog and I think its still going on!


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## mahike

sorry you are here. Most of us would like to give you some advice but we do not know much about what has happened. Can you fill us in. When and how did you find out, do the girls know, does your wife show any remorse for what happend and did you confron the OM? does his W or GF know?

Sorry you are hear. We all know what you are going through. lack of sleep, mind movies, D or R, blame shifting. This is tough


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## scoot162

I believe the affair has stopped. I confronted the man and he gave me his sincere apology for the entire incident. She told me she doesnt love me like she once did and that she is not "in love with me anymore". Fog is a good way of describing what she is in because she seems to be acting out something, fantasy she may be missing in her life. She is having a difficult time with her age and getting older. Not sure if this has anything to do with it. We are scheduled for couple counceling and she has been seeing a councelor by herself.


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## the guy

I believe the distance from the daughters, and not taking ownership then there isn't one bit of remorse IMHO.


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## the guy

This may be a case of withdrawals from breaking up with her boyfriend.....that is if the OM is truely sorry and broke up with your wife. But its been my experience that affairs are addicting so I still would look into this affair going deeper.

How did you find out about the affair?

How ever you found out may no longer be an aveneu for the affair to continue and WW and OM have other means to meet or at the very least talk.

Was it a coworker?


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## SomedayDig

scoot162 said:


> I believe the affair has stopped. I confronted the man and he gave me his sincere apology for the entire incident. She told me she doesnt love me like she once did and that she is not "in love with me anymore". Fog is a good way of describing what she is in because she seems to be acting out something, fantasy she may be missing in her life. She is having a difficult time with her age and getting older. Not sure if this has anything to do with it. We are scheduled for couple counceling and she has been seeing a councelor by herself.


The who "not in love with you" is standard for people in the fog. They have literally told themselves this lie and believe it (my wife, Regret214 and I call it the George Costanza fog).

You need to check cell phone, email, facebook and any other accounts of hers by asking for her password. That right there, will be a good indication of "where" she is. If she fights it, then you know the affair is underground and still active. If she doesn't, then maybe there is hope.

You need to understand that you are going to learn things in bits and pieces. It sucks moose balls...it's called trickle truth.

You MUST let her know that only full and complete disclosure of the affair is the only way that you are going to be able to continue in the marriage and work toward reconciliation.

How do YOU feel about things as they stand right now?


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## scoot162

The affair did not last long about 2-3 months because I suspected an issue and was investigating text messages and other avenues. The man was engaged to be married and I confronted him about the entire incident. Unfortunately my wife works with the OM.


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## SomedayDig

scoot162 said:


> Unfortunately my wife works with the OM.


AYE! There's the rub.

No wonder you're having a tough time with this. She still sees this guy on a daily basis.

The only thing is, can you ask her to change jobs? You're going to see a flood of advice here saying that there will never be NC (no contact) if the two of them work together and that she MUST leave her job if she fully intends on reconciliation.

While true, sometimes the ability to leave a job isn't so easy. She might be in a specialized field or whatnot. But again - what is it worth to YOU?


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## scoot162

I feel she is sorry for what she has done, even though she has not apologized for any of her actions. She is still with us and we do not fight or anything like that. I do get frustrated when we talk about this issue because she shuts down and doesnt talk.


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## badbane

SomedayDig said:


> Okay, Badbane...that was spooky that we posted the same stuff at the same time. LOL


electronic fist bump


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## LostCPA

As long as she works with him, the affair continues. Every time she sees him she is once again flooded with all those hormones that take her back to day one and keep her connected to him.

Leaving a job with OM is not easy, but you have to decide if your marriage is more important than a job or finances.


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## lisab0105

Your wife is in the "me me me" stage...or maybe she has always lived there.


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## badbane

scoot162 said:


> I feel she is sorry for what she has done, even though she has not apologized for any of her actions. She is still with us and we do not fight or anything like that. I do get frustrated when we talk about this issue because she shuts down and doesnt talk.


IS her finding another job an option. No amount of money is worth a marriage devoid of trust.


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## scoot162

She is a teacher and teaching positions are very slim where we reside.


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## LostCPA

Teaching jobs may be hard to come by, but almost never do you see an affair end when the affair partners continue to see each other and NC is not established.

If she stays in this job, you are likely agreeing to share your wife with OM. Sorry to be blunt, but unfortunately it's true.


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## scoot162

She was not always like this. Something has changed, started hanging with single women almost half her age and going out. I stay home with our girls. This doesnt happen very frequent but she is connected with the younger women which is very weird!


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## Almostrecovered

as long as she is in contact with OM, the affair is not over (even if she hasn't talked to or been with him, she sees him everyday and will be in the affair in her mind and it will be a matter of time before it starts up again)

you have to make a decision, financial hard times or your marriage


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## SomedayDig

badbane said:


> electronic fist bump


Hypothetical high five!


***
Scoot...she hasn't apologized for her feelings, IMO, because you never gave her a consequence for her action. She needs to fully comprehend what happened here.

It wasn't a mistake. It wasn't even like a ONS. She had an affair for months! She lied to you. Deceived you. Betrayed YOU!

There needs to be consequences for what she did.

I suggest reading the newbie link in Almostrecovered's signature. You sound like you really need it.


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## scoot162

Thank you so much somedaydig I will read it! Thanks for your comments as well. Trying to understand all this!! Very overwhelming and confusing to say the least!


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## the guy

So you do understand that everytime your WW shows up to work those same feeling are popping up....just seeing him will bring back the warm and fuzzy feeling your WW has for OM.

This is not good she my not be sleeping with him but as long as she keeps see the OM it will continue to effect the marriage.

It suck to have to quit a job cuz one deside to crap were they eat, but until she stopps working with the OM you are in a lossing battle hence the reason for your WW current behavior.


At the very least if this thing is still going on the the OM GF should be told. I mean even if its not still going on the Om GF should be told.

Right now you need a VAR in her car to see what she is planning.

If she knows about how you got the info on the A then its time to find a new avanue to confirm her commitment in the marriage.


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## donders

scoot162 said:


> she doesn't seem to take ownership of the affair and seems distant with our girls. I am trying to trust her again


You can't possibly trust her again.

She's not the least bit remorseful, she hasn't even apologized and her attitude is distant. 

There's no reason to believe her when she says the affair is over.

If you hadn't caught her and confronted the guy it would still be going on, and as has been suggested, she's in daily contact with him and the odds are she is still carrying on with him.

If you want to try to save your marriage, she MUST leave that job. Doesn't matter where she goes or how much money you lose, your marriage (I think) is worth more than that.

If you accept that you're probably headed for divorce, than the opposite advice applies, you do NOT want her leaving the job because that will have implications when it comes to child and spousal support.


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## the guy

scoot162 said:


> I feel she is sorry for what she has done, even though she has not apologized for any of her actions. She is still with us and we do not fight or anything like that. I do get frustrated when we talk about this issue because she shuts down and doesnt talk.


She is only sorry for getting caught....no remorse, sorry brother


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## the guy

scoot162 said:


> She was not always like this. Something has changed, started hanging with single women almost half her age and going out. I stay home with our girls. This doesnt happen very frequent but she is connected with the younger women which is very weird!


This is also very dangerous....as you have already found out. Its only a matter of time these GNO turns into a ONS.


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## badbane

scoot162 said:


> I feel she is sorry for what she has done, even though she has not apologized for any of her actions. She is still with us and we do not fight or anything like that. I do get frustrated when we talk about this issue because she shuts down and doesnt talk.


read more of the more serious threads on here. There are stories that seem like movie scripts they are so awful. They lie, cheat, and lie some more in order to preserve the "happy" life they have. 
She may be sorry but how do you know they haven't limited theird dirty talk to in person only. You should expose this to her HR dept. and you should also expose to your family, friends, neighbors, and even tell the dog. Cause nothing kills an affair faster than all of her friends calling her and asking her "WTF are you doing?"


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## the guy

It's confusing cuz as you continue to begg and plead for the marriage the degree of disrespect from your WW grows.

Your WW has not been met whith any consequences. I mean without consequences why change?

How transparent as she become?


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## SomedayDig

I've got some errands to run, so I'll check back in later. All I can tell you Scoot, is your being overwhelmed is totally understandable.

Read that newbie thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

At the very least if your WW wants to keep her marriage she should get rid of the TF (toxic friend). maybe a small consequence she could face.

Again you have yet to mention any true remorese from your wife. Not only has not apologized, she remains distant, continues to work with OM, and puts up the walls in not facing this problem with her adultous behavior.

I think she has your number, I think she believes this wil all die down and as you go back to the girls and work it will all blow ever....never learning or addressing her actions in how she handled an unhealthy marriage.


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## MattMatt

So, let me see... your wife is jealous of the relationship you have with your children, so she thinks: "Oh! _*I*_ know! I'll make our relationship better by having an affair!"

Yikes.


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## the guy

Scoot sorry for harping on you, Ive been there and it sucks, but your chick needs to see some tough love, a confident man that will no longer tolorate her behavior, even if the A stop (and you know were I stand) she is not owning her crap. 

You can't control her but you can ask her to leave until she can be a mother and a wife that your family diserves. This statement along will at least get her to think twice in what she is about to lose.

I was scared out of my mind but as I helped my wife back it was only then that my wife told me that "this is not what I want" only then could I get through to her. It was this confidence that I show my wife that I could let her go if she continued.


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## iheartlife

Working with an affair partner is a FAIL where reconciliation is concerned. LostCPA said it almost never works--I venture that it never does and have never seen a single thread on this forum where someone had that work out in any way, shape or form.

In fact, I'd venture to say that your post--the wife in a texting affair with a co-worker and continued distance after 'ending it' is common enough to be its own separate category of failed reconciliation.

Working together completely explains her continued distance. They don't need to contact each other through the means you discovered before; they can either maintain contact via work, or they've found some other way and have taken their communication underground.

Take a look at wrsteele1's thread if you doubt us. His wife swore up and down things had ended. They were in marriage counseling, for crying out loud. She still said she wasn't in love with him although he read all sorts of books and put a lot of effort into trying to make her happy, per HER requests.

Then he put a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) in her car and things became crystal clear as to why she was so "distant."

----------------------

*I STRONGLY recommend you take a look at the link in my signature to the book, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass*. She was a nationally recognized researcher on infidelity. Her book incorporates her work and the work of others in the field. It is extremely thorough and well-written. My link goes to the google books excerpts, which has a lot of the book including the table of contents. You will quickly see why it's so highly recommended.

You need to educate yourself about infidelity and how it works. The learning curve isn't steep (thanks to cheaters' amazing lack of creativity) but the average layperson is incredibly ignorant about it if they've never suffered a betrayal themselves.


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## mahike

scoot162 said:


> The affair did not last long about 2-3 months because I suspected an issue and was investigating text messages and other avenues. The man was engaged to be married and I confronted him about the entire incident. Unfortunately my wife works with the OM.


OK big red flag. She has to give notice today. If she refuses you also know that it has gone underground. They will see each other at work this will not work.

I may have missed this but do your girls know? Did you contact the OM's fiance and let her know? Did you tell your families? 

When we hit midlife we want Harley's, Boats and to run wild. Woman start to worry about do I look good are men still attracted this is true is she is getting near the big M.

Are you two in MC?


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## lordmayhem

As *EVERYONE* has been telling you, she *CANNOT* continue to work with the OM. Please don't believe the stereotype that people who are in an affair need to go to a hotel room, or each other's houses to have sex. They can get it on at work, in a park, in a vehicle in a parking lot, etc, just about anywhere they can get some semi privacy. There was a member here who caught an email from the OM to his WW, actually b!tching to her how come she wouldn't f#ck him in the elevator at work! 

Also like others have said, as long as she sees him at work, then the affair continues on in her mind. From what you said, the OM apologized to you. Uhmm....why do you even take his word for it? Seriously? Here's one rule: Never believe a man who is fracking your wife. If there's one rule of thumb when dealing with workplace affairs, its this: T*he WS cannot go or maintain NC with their AP as long as they work with them.* 

Your story is very similar to another member here, TheGoodFight, his WW was also a teacher and the OM worked at the school also, and his WW was starting to hang with single, younger, cheating coworkers. His WW was giving the OM blowjobs at work! He ended up having his WW quit her teaching job. Here's his thread. He's still active in the forums, so you can message him.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33835-feels-like-soap-opera.html


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/53004-one-year-approaching-mixed-results.html


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## Plan 9 from OS

mahike said:


> OK big red flag. She has to give notice today. If she refuses you also know that it has gone underground. They will see each other at work this will not work.
> 
> I may have missed this but do your girls know? *Did you contact the OM's fiance and let her know?* Did you tell your families?
> 
> When we hit midlife we want Harley's, Boats and to run wild. Woman start to worry about do I look good are men still attracted this is true is she is getting near the big M.
> 
> Are you two in MC?


You MUST out the OM to his fiance. 1) she deserves to know what she's getting into with this man. 2) he needs to feel the repercussions of having an affair with a married woman. 3) your wife needs to understand that she affected more people than just you.


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## Acabado

She's detached from her daughters becuase being a mom make her unhappy. Harsh but truth. She's detached from you becuase he's unhappy being a wife.
The old scritp in her head doesn't work anymore. She's in a personal crisis. She doesn't want to grow up. Being a wife and a mom feels awful. She like more being young, single and carefree. That's why she's hanging out with young people. She wants to live life to the fullest without responsabilities nor restrictions. Next step is being tatooed.
Beyond the main affair (I'm sure she's still getting fixes at work) it's going to be hard to crack this one.


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## happyman64

Scoot,

You are getting a lot of good advice.

And you need to stop begging her to come back to the marriage and family.

If this was my wife I would show her consequences.

A. I would tell both our families about her A. It is still going on if she sees this A*SH*LE everyday.

B. I would forbid girls nights out with the other single teachers. That is a recipe for disaster with all the other single girls egging her on. They have nothing to lose while your wife does but does not care.

C. If the wife still goes out, pack her bags and drop them off at OM's house or her parents house.

D. I would serve her D papers. Not separation but divorce papers. If it takes 3 months tell her she has 90 days to shape up or ship out.

She is seriously contemplating leaving the marriage and your family. And if she is saying anything to the contrary than she is lying to you.

Did you ever tell the OM's fiancee what was up with the Affair???

You need to toughen up and show her consequences.

Hm64


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## Mr Blunt

Scoot

I know you really want to fully understand your wife’s betrayal. There are a thousand reasons why a spouse would cheat. To spend your time trying to fully understand your wife is not the best action for you to take at this time. *Do you think if you fully understand your wife that you can fix her?*

From your posts so far I assume you have not been a cheater, have not physically been abusive, nor anything else that would be a real serious violation of your marriage. That being the case then your wife has at the root of her despicable actions the S word. Not sex but SELFISHNESS! *She has chosen her selfish desires over her children and husband. She is a very emotionally sick person in her soul right now.*

She can get much better if she chooses the right path. However, know this. She is the only ne that can make the big difference and turn towards healing. *It is not your job to mend her broken soul because you are not capable.* You can try to fix everything but you will fail and maybe make things worse.

I am not saying that you will not possibly have a part but if she chooses to not take ownership of the affair then she will not be able to get n better. A good therapist will be able to give her the steps to take to get better but the big one is her free will choice. To get the right steps and to begin to take the appropriate actions is not a great mystery at all. *The critical point is her truly facing the facts that she is totally responsible and having the right spirit and attitude to start to heal by taking actions.*

You need to do everything you can to build your self up in body, mind, and spirit. You will want to give all your attention to your wife but that is not the best step to take at this point. *You are crushed and need to get yourself in a better condition so that you can be better for you, and your children*. You will also be in better shape to help your wife if the opportunity comes.

You will have to fight to keep from trying to fix your wife but you cannot fix her. Get busy right now building yourself back up so that you can help yourself and your children.


*Your wife has full control over her free will choices and you do not; you only have control over your free will choices![/*COLOR]


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## MattMatt

Acabado said:


> She's detached from her daughters becuase being a mom make her unhappy. Harsh but truth. She's detached from you becuase he's unhappy being a wife.
> The old scritp in her head doesn't work anymore. She's in a personal crisis. She doesn't want to grow up. Being a wife and a mom feels awful. She like more being young, single and carefree. That's why she's hanging out with young people. She wants to live life to the fullest without responsabilities nor restrictions. Next step is being tatooed.
> Beyond the main affair (I'm sure she's still getting fixes at work) it's going to be hard to crack this one.


Please make sure (by using VARs, copious notes/a diary/journal) that your wife does not get the idea of lying and pretending that you are having sexual relationships with your daughters.

You do not think she would? Well... you would never think she would cheat on you either, did you?

Protect yourself and your daughters from their mother. Whilst it is not likely that she'll do this, forewarned is forearmed.


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## jnj express

Your wife is in a school DISTRICT---if she has enuff seniority she can bump another teacher, and move to another school, in the district---with the new school year just starting---this needs to happen quickly.

Real Question here, is does she want to---from what you sound like, she is fighting you----

Your mge., can't make it as a 3some, and won't make it if she isn't remorseful/contrite/repentanent/ and accountable

She has to want the mge, and do all the heavy lifting

Whether you like it or not---you have to be harsh, about how you handle this---as of right now---from what I am reading, she has had no consequences, and no accountability----you need to lay it out for her, either, she, and she alone does what is necessary to make this mge get to a point where R., might be possible, or she can face a courtroom, and D.

You may not like what I have just written, but your only big gun as a weapon is D/Threat of D---you really have little else

If you do decide to stay, cuz SHE wants to make the mge work, then the 2 of you need to seriously discuss all your problems, each and every day---and like it or not---your wife does come 1st before your kids


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## Eli-Zor

lordmayhem said:


> As *EVERYONE* has been telling you, she *CANNOT* continue to work with the OM. Please don't believe the stereotype that people who are in an affair need to go to a hotel room, or each other's houses to have sex. They can get it on at work, in a park, in a vehicle in a parking lot, etc, just about anywhere they can get some semi privacy. There was a member here who caught an email from the OM to his WW, actually b!tching to her how come she wouldn't f#ck him in the elevator at work!
> 
> Also like others have said, as long as she sees him at work, then the affair continues on in her mind. From what you said, the OM apologized to you. Uhmm....why do you even take his word for it? Seriously? Here's one rule: Never believe a man who is fracking your wife. If there's one rule of thumb when dealing with workplace affairs, its this: T*he WS cannot go or maintain NC with their AP as long as they work with them.*
> 
> Your story is very similar to another member here, TheGoodFight, his WW was also a teacher and the OM worked at the school also, and his WW was starting to hang with single, younger, cheating coworkers. His WW was giving the OM blowjobs at work! He ended up having his WW quit her teaching job. Here's his thread. He's still active in the forums, so you can message him.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33835-feels-like-soap-opera.html
> 
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/53004-one-year-approaching-mixed-results.html


Agree

Read and listen to these words
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scoot162

Yes, my thoughts exactly!!! She is at MC and has a very hard time with her age right now. She lost weight and looks very hot!!! I always loved my wife more than anything, but as life wears you down, sometimes the little things said to each other tend to be less frequent. I have blamed myself for everything but have realized it is 50-50 and everything cant be on me. I love my family and would die for them this second.


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## scoot162

This sounds so true to what is currently happening. She said she wanted to get a tatoo! Amazing!!!!


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## scoot162

Thought about telling the fiance but something told me not to. I am focusing on saving my family and felt I should not possibly break up another.


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## SomedayDig

Scoot...the truth is, that soon-to-be family is already broken up. If not your wife, it will be someone else - I promise you that.

Telling his fiance isn't about breaking them up or revenge or anything of the such. It is simply giving her the information YOU have and allowing her to not only have the truth, but to be able to decide IF he is the one she wants to be with.

In essence, you might not be saving a possible marriage, but you might be saving a life. Hers.


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## lordmayhem

scoot162 said:


> Thought about telling the fiance but something told me not to. I am focusing on saving my family and felt I should not possibly break up another.


Oh boy, here we go again. You are NOT responsible for breaking up his family, HE did by cheating with your WW. This is morally the right thing to do. She deserves to know what kind of man she's engaged to so she can make an informed decision as to the course of their relationship. You would like to know if you were in her position.

Also, most OM will throw their affair partner under the bus in order to save their relationship, especially if they have children. This is why exposure is usually a very effective tool in killing an affair. He won't be with your WW if he's too busy trying to do damage controlling and saving his relationship with his fiancee.

The fiancee may even be another pair of eyes on the affair. Some members of this forum were notified by the other spouse that their WS tried to fish for renewed contact. You're making the newbie mistake here of being afraid of telling the other betrayed partner.


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## scoot162

Very well stated. I have never cheated and have no desire to. My focus was always on my family that included my wife and children. As children get older they get more involved, which I am totally involved with them. My oldest daughter is a teenager and a country singer that takes alot of my time outside of work. To this point I feel I failed to get my wife more involved with the activities by doing everything my self. Kinda like just taking her along for the ride. I love my wife more than anything in the world and cannot imagine life without her. She tells me she doesnt have feelings for me anymore but find it hard to believe. We have started couples counseling this week. We are trying to make it as painless on the children as possible but am having a difficut time with the entire process.


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## Acabado

After the tatoo, boob job. She's totally regresing to high school.
There's never a garantee your wife is going to snap out of this personal crisis (name it MLC or whatever), but the only chance is shining light into the fantasy, making it all real, exposing, making her belive she's about to lose everything she cherises. Clear consequences. She needs to decide who she is, who she wants to be. She needs to decide if she wants to be a grown up person.
Expose to fiancee, be firm and calm, behave in a way that put her off balance. Detach, improve yourself, your apareance, your behavior, look through her like a ghost when she start talking nonense, start stoping being predictable. Rob her the power she belives she has. Tell her she can let you take care of the kids, she can live as single, tell her you'll confirm she's indeed 10 years younger than her real age is you are questioned. Start moving on.

The 180 degree rules
No More Mr Nice Guy


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## Shaggy

- Lost weight
- going out with single girls
- pulling away from husband and kids
- still working with OM
- tells you she doesn't have feelings for you..

You've heard so much good advice here. The bottom line is she is still cheating and is looking to completely live a single's life style.

You can't win her back by being nice - you can only win her back by drawing the line in the sand not accepting it being crossed.

Call the OM's gf and tell her.


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## SomedayDig

scoot162 said:


> Very well stated. I have never cheated and have no desire to. My focus was always on my family that included my wife and children. As children get older they get more involved, which I am totally involved with them. My oldest daughter is a teenager and a country singer that takes alot of my time outside of work. *To this point I feel I failed to get my wife more involved with the activities by doing everything my self.* Kinda like just taking her along for the ride. I love my wife more than anything in the world and cannot imagine life without her. She tells me she doesnt have feelings for me anymore but find it hard to believe. We have started couples counseling this week. We are trying to make it as painless on the children as possible but am having a difficut time with the entire process.


Scoot...I get ya, man. Trust me here. You are taking on all of the responsibility for your wife's inaction. You can't do that to yourself. She had the ability to be there for the kids' activities, so why didn't she. Oh, let me guess...she would be tired after teaching. Have papers to grade. Follow ups with parents about their kids. Prepping for another lesson plan. And so on and so on.

Unless you are a stay at home Dad, you probably had work things going on, too.

You gotta try to let go of taking blame for even the "small" things like this. It'll make a helluva difference in your life.


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## aug

Dont let another person go through the mess that you're going through now. Tell the fiancee. She needs the heads-up of whirlwind she's walking into.


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## lordmayhem

scoot162 said:


> Very well stated. I have never cheated and have no desire to. My focus was always on my family that included my wife and children. As children get older they get more involved, which I am totally involved with them. My oldest daughter is a teenager and a country singer that takes alot of my time outside of work. To this point I feel I failed to get my wife more involved with the activities by doing everything my self.


I've had a hard time understanding her situation with the children. Seriously, *what the hell kind of mother is she that she doesn't care about her children's activities?* Its not your job to get her involved, she should have been getting involved on her own because they are her children! Again, you're taking responsibility for her selfish actions. You know why she doesn't care about the children's activities? Because she's just plain selfish and I bet she has some narcissistic tendencies.



scoot162 said:


> Kinda like just taking her along for the ride. I love my wife more than anything in the world and cannot imagine life without her.


Then you're setting yourself up to fail. You have to be willing to let her go in order to save your marriage. Its counterintuitive, but its usually the only way that works.



scoot162 said:


> She tells me she doesnt have feelings for me anymore but find it hard to believe.


She doesn't have feelings for you right now because she's still in the fog of her affair. That's all there is to it.



scoot162 said:


> We have started couples counseling this week. We are trying to make it as painless on the children as possible but am having a difficut time with the entire process.


Yet another one who thinks MC is the magic pill that's going to save the marriage. MC will NOT get her out of the fog. MC will not suddenly open her eyes and see how bad she's been treating you and the family. MC is for those couples who are trying to work on the marriage *AFTER* the affair has ended.

In many cases, especially here on the forum, MC can actually make things worse if you end up with a counselor who is NOT experienced in dealing with infidelity. We've seen many stories like that here. The crappy counselor ends up only validating her feelings for having the affair, usually focusing on her issues and what led up to the affair, instead of holding the WS responsible.

But how you proceed is entirely up to you. My prediction is that because you're in the BS fog, you're going to rug sweep this.


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## SomedayDig

I agree with Lordmayhem about the MC possibly not being the best if they're not fully trained in infidelity. MC...MARRIAGE counseling is 99% about fixing the marriage from NOW. My experience was they didn't really care about my recovery from my wife's cheating. It was about moving forward from NOW.

How in the f--k can you move forward without healing your SELF first and getting to the bottom of a horrible betrayal of lies and deceit?

Again, unless your MC is specifically trained on how to deal with infidelity, it will not give you the help you need or deserve.


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## LostCPA

There is an excuse for everything. Nothing is her fault. I am not going to try to convince you to do the things that are proven to end affairs anymore. YOu have already been given the tools multiple times. 

I've been where you are and made the same mistakes. I wouldn't listen to the advice given and had to do it my own way. That, by the way, was a total disaster which is why I am now divorced. I'll see you back in a few months when she's still in her affair or is in another affair and maybe you will listen then.


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## Almostrecovered

LostCPA said:


> I've been where you are and made the same mistakes. I wouldn't listen to the advice given and had to do it my own way. That, by the way, was a total disaster which is why I am now divorced. I'll see you back in a few months when she's still in her affair or is in another affair and maybe you will listen then.


take this man seriously

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


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## scoot162

I dont want to bash my wife. It has only been the last couple years she has started to be somewhat distant. She has always attended their sports activities and anything they are into. I however was at every practice they were at due to also being their coach. The point I was trying to make is maybe she could have been more involved then just spectating. This however, was just a thought of mine.


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## scoot162

Read your string. You are right we never listen or see things coming! Why am I here, because I want to learn from everyone who also went through this. Your mind does play tricks, do I believe her or dont I. After being lied to multiple times we tend to not believe anymore. I want to save our marriage but without her total involvment, I find it hard to put forth the energy it will take, while taking away time from myself and our children. I need a committment from her! I need accountablility for her actions! I need an apology from her! So far I have not gotten any after 6 months when the a happened.


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## SomedayDig

scoot162 said:


> I dont want to bash my wife. It has only been the last couple years she has started to be somewhat distant. She has always attended their sports activities and anything they are into. I however was at every practice they were at due to also being their coach. The point I was trying to make is maybe she could have been more involved then just spectating. This however, was just a thought of mine.


Timeline for her affair and distancing from family activities sounds about right. Thanks for the clarification, too. I think she definitely could have been more involved - IF she had wanted. Funny how the affair fog covers family stuff too, eh?


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## SomedayDig

scoot162 said:


> Read your string. You are right we never listen or see things coming! Why am I here, because I want to learn from everyone who also went through this. Your mind does play tricks, do I believe her or dont I. After being lied to multiple times we tend to not believe anymore. I want to save our marriage but without her total involvment, I find it hard to put forth the energy it will take, while taking away time from myself and our children. I need a committment from her! I need accountablility for her actions! I need an apology from her! So far I have not gotten any after 6 months when the a happened.


Order this book How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair.

My wife ordered it the week after Dday. It helped her a ton and I got the benefit from it by having a WS who "gets it".


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## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> I need a committment from her! I need accountablility for her actions! I need an apology from her! So far I have not gotten any after 6 months when the a happened.


she = infatuated with him 

she = still in contact with him

she = still infatuated with him

she = hasn't changed at all, but some time went by


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## scoot162

Will try my best while still managing my daily commitments. Seems she has the upper hand in this situation and is back and forth with her emotions as well as mine. I would like to move forward but she is hesitant. Will continue to be supportive and show her my commitment. It was told to me that many women would love to have what my wife and I have, one reason why it is hard to understand the straying. We were always close and our communication has been strained the past years mainly due to everyday life and schedules with the family.


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## TRy

scoot162 said:


> Will try my best while still managing my daily commitments. Seems she has the upper hand in this situation and is back and forth with her emotions as well as mine. I would like to move forward but she is hesitant. Will continue to be supportive and show her my commitment. It was told to me that many women would love to have what my wife and I have, one reason why it is hard to understand the straying. We were always close and our communication has been strained the past years mainly due to everyday life and schedules with the family.


 She only has the upper hand because you gave it to her. She is amazed at how easy and forgiving you were to her cheating. There was zero risk that she would lose you. She does not even have to say that she is sorry much less do the heavy lifting in saving the marraige. Your lack of anger and action is making her lose respect for you. A woman cannot be "in love" with someone that she does not respect.

You say that you do not fight or argue much. Stop that right now. Get angry for her cheating. Do not let her blame shift any of it to you. Being a good bread winner and good father such that it is not all about just her is not a reason for her to cheat. Most woman would love and adore you for this. Also, do not let her try to judge you by a standard of perfection that she does not hold herself to. You cannot win at that game, so do not let her sucker you into playing it. Tell her that no one is perfect, deal with it. Although not perfect you are a good man, that should be enough. She is the one with the problem. She cheated because she is selfish and self center and it was fun. She is not remorseful and will do it again unless there are consequences for her cheating. The best odds of saving your marraige is for you to be willing to end it for real if she does not do the heavy lifting and fight to save the marraige.

If you read these and other board threads you will see that there is one universal rule for success in reconciliation; without respect and remorse there can be no true long term reconciliation. She does not give you either and you need to demand both if you are to consider staying in the marriage. BTW, do not let her blame shift that you would be the one ending the marraige. Her cheating would be 100% the cause should it end.


----------



## Emerald

scoot162 said:


> Very well stated. I have never cheated and have no desire to. My focus was always on my family that included my wife and children. As children get older they get more involved, which I am totally involved with them. My oldest daughter is a teenager and a country singer that takes alot of my time outside of work. To this point I feel I failed to get my wife more involved with the activities by doing everything my self. Kinda like just taking her along for the ride. I love my wife more than anything in the world and cannot imagine life without her. She tells me she doesnt have feelings for me anymore but find it hard to believe. We have started couples counseling this week. We are trying to make it as painless on the children as possible but am having a difficut time with the entire process.


Why do you think you failed your wife by being an involved father? How come she doesn't want to participate with the family activities?

I worked for a school district. Affairs were RAMPANT! Good families breaking up all over the place; people miserable NOT happy.....sigh........


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## Emerald

scoot162 said:


> Read your string. You are right we never listen or see things coming! Why am I here, because I want to learn from everyone who also went through this. Your mind does play tricks, do I believe her or dont I. After being lied to multiple times we tend to not believe anymore. I want to save our marriage but without her total involvment, I find it hard to put forth the energy it will take, while taking away time from myself and our children. I need a committment from her! I need accountablility for her actions! I need an apology from her! So far I have not gotten any after 6 months when the a happened.


Oh - I see where you clarified about her involvement with your daughters & yes coaching does require a significant amount of time. She may have resented that time away from her IDK.

I'm surprised at "no apology." Does she ever apologize for anything?

I would never bash your wife. You say she is "hot" & is not adjusting well to growing older. Actually, this is very common for "hot" women. As they age, "heads aren't turning the way" they used to, etc.

At her school, the younger, hotter female teachers are getting more male attention. This could be a REAL problem for her & the OM picked up on this & groomed her.

I see IC needed before MC. The above issue (if she has it) will not go away until she can accept getting older.


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## ArmyofJuan

scoot162 said:


> Will try my best while still managing my daily commitments. Seems she has the upper hand in this situation and is back and forth with her emotions as well as mine. I would like to move forward but she is hesitant. Will continue to be supportive and show her my commitment. It was told to me that many women would love to have what my wife and I have, one reason why it is hard to understand the straying. We were always close and our communication has been strained the past years mainly due to everyday life and schedules with the family.


Stop blaming yourself, this is not your fault. You need to come to terms with the fact that your W isn't as great as you think she is.

Also you are giving her all the power and you being "supportive and show her my commitment" is working against you. You are her backup plan because you made yourself that way.

You are handling this wrong and setting yourself up for a false R. I should know, I ignored the advice giving to me as well and had 2 false Rs because of it.


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## TDSC60

scoot162 said:


> Read your string. You are right we never listen or see things coming! Why am I here, because I want to learn from everyone who also went through this. Your mind does play tricks, do I believe her or dont I. After being lied to multiple times we tend to not believe anymore. I want to save our marriage but without her total involvment, I find it hard to put forth the energy it will take, while taking away time from myself and our children. I need a committment from her! I need accountablility for her actions! I need an apology from her! So far I have not gotten any after 6 months when the a happened.


As much as you want to make it work, YOU CANNOT DO IT ALONE. No amount of energy you expend with accomplish anything if she is not trying to save the marriage.

She is not sorry for what she did. No remorse at all. No apology.
She says she does not love you.
She has not faced any consequences.
If she works with the OM then the affair is still going on.

Sometimes old sayings are the best: "If you love her, then let her go." Tell her you have reached the end of your rope and will be filing for divorce. This could shock her back to reality.

Since she is not remorseful about the affair, you can be sure that either it is not over with OM or there will be an OM#2 shortly. She NEEDS validation from men (not you) that she is attractive and desirable. 

Trying to be logical and talking to her is not working. Time for shock therapy. You have to be willing to let her go.


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## Acabado

ArmyofJuan wrote


> Also you are giving her all the power and you being "supportive and show her my commitment" is working against you. You are her backup plan because you made yourself that way.


Exactly. You shoud be *less* comitted. She can't feel you will be there no matter what. 

TDSC60 wrote


> Trying to be logical and talking to her is not working. Time for shock therapy. You have to be willing to let her go.


Ditto again.
You needs to start doing your thing.
*Rethink *your comitment to this cheater, unremorseful, clueless, self centered wife of yours. Think of you. Be selfish. Improve yourself.
Taylor the 180, specially the self improvement side.
The 180 degree rules
No More Mr Nice Guy


----------



## happyman64

TDSC60 said:


> As much as you want to make it work, YOU CANNOT DO IT ALONE. No amount of energy you expend with accomplish anything if she is not trying to save the marriage.
> 
> She is not sorry for what she did. No remorse at all. No apology.
> She says she does not love you.
> She has not faced any consequences.
> If she works with the OM then the affair is still going on.
> 
> Sometimes old sayings are the best: "If you love her, then let her go." Tell her you have reached the end of your rope and will be filing for divorce. This could shock her back to reality.
> 
> Since she is not remorseful about the affair, you can be sure that either it is not over with OM or there will be an OM#2 shortly. She NEEDS validation from men (not you) that she is attractive and desirable.
> 
> Trying to be logical and talking to her is not working. Time for shock therapy. You have to be willing to let her go.


:iagree:

Scoot

Your wife is selfish and self centered.

I am married 20 years. Work a lot & in sales all my life. I am very involved with all three ( 18, 12, 11 ) of my daughters.

My wife and I dated 6 years before we married.

We get along great, are both very active with our children.

She has my back and I have hers.

Cheating is not in our vocabulary.

Stop waiting for an apology, stop waiting for remorse and give her some consequences equal to her cheating and behavior.

Start with D papers. She deserves them, and you deserve better.

HM64


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## Chaparral

scoot162 said:


> Will try my best while still managing my daily commitments. Seems she has the upper hand in this situation and is back and forth with her emotions as well as mine. I would like to move forward but she is hesitant. Will continue to be supportive and show her my commitment. It was told to me that many women would love to have what my wife and I have, one reason why it is hard to understand the straying. We were always close and our communication has been strained the past years mainly due to everyday life and schedules with the family.


She has the upper hand because you are now the one screwing up. 
First check out this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33835-feels-like-soap-opera.html


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/40531-i-am-easily-gas-lighted.html

Then read this book "Married Man Sex Life Primer" (not a sex manual)

Then this : "No More Mister nice Guy" and blog

She's lost respect = attraction for you over the years. But you can fix it.

She is still in the affair. Talk tio his fiance. If the marriage is worth it you will have to out them to the principle if one of them doesn't quit. No one said this was going to be easy.

Put a VAR inder the seat of her car(velcro)

Get her text messages, emails, check her phone records


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## Chaparral

One way to get her attention is to downlaod a divorce packet. If it is not online you can get one from the county courthouse. Let her see you going over it.


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## sandc

You need to make her understand what she stands to lose. File for divorce. You don't have to actually divorce her. But it will show her you mean business.


----------



## jnj express

OK, we get it---U Love Your Wife---unfortunately, you can't lover her enuff---for the 2 of you-------you are trying to impose your will on your wife

This line about the kids activities causing a problem, maybe so, but Mayhem pretty much hit that area

She is the kids mother, and she needed to be there----maybe you have gone overboard----lots of work, then coaching the kids teams---did leave your wife high and dry

BUT THAT IS NO EXCUSE FOR HER TO CHEAT---AND NO REASON TO GIVE HER AN EXCUSE FOR WHAT SHE HAS DONE

You have one major weapon here---D/threat of D---if your wife isn't gonna commit, and isn't gonna change schools, and is gonna stay in contact---then you don't have a mge.,---you have 2 parents in misery, and your kids put in the middle

You can't sit here, and assume your wife will come around---you are trying to "will her" into loving you---it is very possible that her love for you has died, and even if you put out this fire---that doesn't mean she will not continue to look for another situation

Right now, what you are doing is consigning yourself to a life of misery-------time to do what is best for you----and that probably means moving on without your wife.


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## Entropy3000

scoot162 said:


> Thought about telling the fiance but something told me not to. I am focusing on saving my family and felt I should not possibly break up another.


:slap:


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## Malaise

"She only has the upper hand because you gave it to her. She is amazed at how easy and forgiving you were to her cheating. There was zero risk that she would lose you. She does not even have to say that she is sorry much less do the heavy lifting in saving the marraige. Your lack of anger and action is making her lose respect for you. A woman cannot be "in love" with someone that she does not respect."

OP

Get pissed! Show her some consequences!

TELL THE OMW!


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## iheartlife

Entropy3000 said:


> :slap:


Yeah, re-reading that made me feel nauseous. Again. Gotta step away from the computer


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## Entropy3000

iheartlife said:


> Yeah, re-reading that made me feel nauseous. Again. Gotta step away from the computer


Sometimes I read comments and they seem like the agenda of what a group of cheaters would want to push as it would be helpful to their lifestyle.

Like this one. This is about keeping affairs secret. 
It is also about not holding the OM / OW accountable. Like it is ok for people to go after married people. They push for privacy, inaction, space, waiting, open or borderline open marriages. All the things that would support people who want to live an unfaithful lifestyle.

The excuse to not expose the affair as if it protects those being cheated on. Huh? It is like know someone has a treatable desease and not telling them. In this case maybe it is some part conflict avoidance and / or fear. Perhaps just misguided. I don't get it. 

But besides being the right thing to do, which should matter it is also the smart thing to do.

Some folks look at "Coping with the affair" as putting up with the affair.


----------



## lordmayhem

Entropy3000 said:


> Sometimes I read comments and they seem like the agenda of what a group of cheaters would want to push as it would be helpful to their lifestyle.
> 
> Like this one. This is about keeping affairs secret.
> It is also about not holding the OM / OW accountable. Like it is ok for people to go after married people. They push for privacy, inaction, space, waiting open or borderline open marriages. All the things that would support people who want to live an unfaithful lifestyle.
> 
> The excuse to not expose the affair as if it protects those being cheated on. Huh? It is like know someone has a treatable desease and not telling them. In this case maybe it is some part conflict avoidance and / or fear. Perhaps just misguided. I don't get it.


:iagree:

Pure win as usual E!


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## iheartlife

Well, the hypocrisy is that if YOU were about to marry a cheater, YOU would want to know! This 'I don't want to mess with someone's open marriage' stuff is a crazy myth. A fig leaf to hide behind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## scoot162

Everyones advice is pointing to the big D. What about how this will disrupt the girls? We both care so much about our children and now they are in a critical stage of their lives as teenagers. I know you say selfishness, but did I bring this behavior on? I know I got to stop blaming my self, but looking back I was somewhat distant with her. How long will the relationship fog last or maybe it wont end if I dont disrupt it? Someone talked of free will and she must make up her own mind. Do I want to be with someone who doesnt love me anymore? Guess this is a question I need to ask myself. We had an arguement last night and I told her she cant have it both ways, security with me and a single lifestyle. She said she is 100% committed to trying to regain her love for me and will not seek the OM. I said it may take sometime until everything is resolved 1-2 years, didnt seem like she was willing to take it this long. She goes to individual therapy and they state she is in depression. She denies she is in MLC which many of her actions point to and things I noticed since reading the strings. Wow this is tough!!


----------



## Chaparral

scoot162 said:


> Everyones advice is pointing to the big D. What about how this will disrupt the girls? We both care so much about our children and now they are in a critical stage of their lives as teenagers. I know you say selfishness, but did I bring this behavior on? I know I got to stop blaming my self, but looking back I was somewhat distant with her. How long will the relationship fog last or maybe it wont end if I dont disrupt it? Someone talked of free will and she must make up her own mind. Do I want to be with someone who doesnt love me anymore? Guess this is a question I need to ask myself. We had an arguement last night and I told her she cant have it both ways, security with me and a single lifestyle. She said she is 100% committed to trying to regain her love for me and will not seek the OM. I said it may take sometime until everything is resolved 1-2 years, didnt seem like she was willing to take it this long. She goes to individual therapy and they state she is in depression. She denies she is in MLC which many of her actions point to and things I noticed since reading the strings. Wow this is tough!!


You could have started with " you have shown no remorse or apologized for having the affair. That can only mean you are happy you had the affair!"


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## Chaparral

If you believe her and she actually has time to sit (or can stand to) and talk to you, study this post with her. Maybe that will show her how you feel.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## scoot162

Thank you very much, this may be helpful to my wife as she is having a very difficult time being sorry, sympathetic, remorseful and blames me for my actions in our marriage that led her to this affair stage.


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## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> Thank you very much, this may be helpful to my wife as she is having a very difficult time being sorry, sympathetic, remorseful and blames me for my actions in our marriage that led her to this affair stage.


Not Just Friends also has a similar chapter explaining things from your point of view.

There are some terrific books to boost marriage--His Needs / Her Needs by Dr. Harley is well-regarded, Love Busters (same author), 5 Love Languages, and The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by Gottman.

But here is the issue: no one is really going crazy recommending these books because she is almost surely still in contact with him and getting her "hit" with that interaction. Infatuation is very addictive--wouldn't you like to be infatuated right now? So her interaction is maintaining that. It takes anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months for no contact to draw someone out of infatuation with another so that they start to see the world the way it really is. Until then, she is going to remain distant from you, and drawn to him.

Now I wouldn't wait 6 months before working through the books above. You are certainly welcome to try them now on the theory that she isn't really that much in contact with him. But that "zing" sensation that she gets from just seeing him is really all it takes, and each time it resets the clock so that it's going to take another x number of weeks to get away from that emotion.

The emotional distance is a giveaway. Yes, it could be, she doesn't love you any more and is just tolerating your relationship. But you yourself have said that they easily have regular contact. Regular contact + past infatuation = current infatuation and emotional distance from your spouse. 

Read the threads yourself if you don't believe us.


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## lordmayhem

scoot162 said:


> Everyones advice is pointing to the big D. What about how this will disrupt the girls? We both care so much about our children and now they are in a critical stage of their lives as teenagers.


Obviously she doesn't care that much about the children, her actions show this. 



scoot162 said:


> I know you say selfishness, but did I bring this behavior on? I know I got to stop blaming my self, but looking back I was somewhat distant with her.


You are only responsible for 50% of the state of the marriage before the affair, she's 100% for the cheating. She could have communicated with you, she could have demanded MC, but she chose to cheat out of pure selfishness.



scoot162 said:


> How long will the relationship fog last or maybe it wont end if I dont disrupt it?


It won't end if you don't disrupt it. As long as she works with him, she will NEVER get out of the fog.



scoot162 said:


> Someone talked of free will and she must make up her own mind. Do I want to be with someone who doesnt love me anymore? Guess this is a question I need to ask myself. We had an arguement last night and I told her she cant have it both ways, security with me and a single lifestyle. She said she is 100% committed to trying to regain her love for me and will not seek the OM.


As long as she works with OM, the affair is still on. If she even lays eyes on him or sees his car, the affair is still on. Haven't you understood this yet?



scoot162 said:


> I said it may take sometime until everything is resolved 1-2 years, didnt seem like she was willing to take it this long.


No, it may take between 2-5 years, and that's ONLY if both partners are comitted 100%. If she's not willing, then you have your answer, she doesn't love you, or her family enough to stick it out and fix what she's done to destroy it. Why do you even want to be with this woman? You cannot reconcile without true remorse, and right now, she's not remorseful at all.



scoot162 said:


> She goes to individual therapy and they state she is in depression. She denies she is in MLC which many of her actions point to and things I noticed since reading the strings.


Depression or mid life crisis, or is it you brought this on by being distant because you were involved in your daughters activities? Regardless, none of these are an excuse to have an affair.



scoot162 said:


> Wow this is tough!!


That's about the only thing you have right so far. And everything you've just said points to you being in the BS fog as well. You've done everything you can to rationalize her affair, that you brought on her affair by being distant, that she's depressed and having a midlife crisis. In other words, I think you're going to sweep this under the rug and just end up in False R. Prove me wrong. If you are going to rug sweep this, then you haven't learned a thing here and everyone's advice is falling on deaf ears. You might be one of those who have to learn the hard way, if that's the case, good luck.


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## scoot162

Thank you all for opening my eyes, it is time to get tough!!!


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## lordmayhem

scoot162 said:


> Thank you all for opening my eyes, it is time to get tough!!!


:smthumbup:


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## Thor

scoot162 said:


> Everyones advice is pointing to the big D. What about how this will disrupt the girls? We both care so much about our children and now they are in a critical stage of their lives as teenagers........ Wow this is tough!!


This part of it is big, and yes it is tough! When my girls were 14 to 18 it was a tough time for them and I chose not to leave. Teen girls are going through a lot of turmoil anyhow, and a divorce would be an added stressor to them.

In the book "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" the author does a good job of explaining an important concept you should embrace. Your marriage is an entity of it's own, between just you and your wife. It is either acceptable to you or it is not. On the merits of the marriage itself you can either live with inner peace or you cannot. Your marriage is not with your children. The parent - child relationship is complicated but boils down to each child and each parent, and it is outside of the marriage bubble.

So your decision of course involves how it may affect the children. I see it as a tie-breaker not a major part of the decision matrix. If your marriage is barely tolerable, bouncing between unpleasant and a little ok, consider other factors. If you have no kids, bail out! If you have kids, work some more on the marriage.

Don't use the kids as an automatic veto of divorce.

My opinion is that you should not decide to divorce yet. It is worth allowing some short time period to further work on the marriage and make a decision based on more information and based on the amount of improvement in the marriage.

Hold her feet to the fire and keep evaluating whether the situation has crossed the line to unacceptable. If it becomes unacceptable, it is UNACCEPTABLE regardless of outside factors such as children, finances, job situations, etc.


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## scoot162

Thank you very much, I plan on staying in the marriage and working at it the best I can, it is my wife that is unsure what she wants. It is not my nature to be uncaring or not compassionate but it is now time for some toughness! I tried to be sympathetic and understanding of her needs after the a went down, but I got no where!


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## Machiavelli

scoot162 said:


> This sounds so true to what is currently happening. She said she wanted to get a tatoo! Amazing!!!!


What? the OM's name scrolled over an arrow pierced heart?


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## the guy

It suck to say but I do have the capacity to be uncaring and uncompassionate.

With that said it worked in my favor, my wife saw that I could easily let her go and it was her efforts that saved the marriage.

So for what its worth.....yes you need to be tougher, cuz I have yet to see any one nice there way out of this crap.

So keep reading here at TAM and you will find alot of current and old threads were the wayward didn't turn a corner until the betrayed was well on there way out. 

Whats scary is often its not a perception or act but the betrayed has really let the wayward go and the wayward has lost any chance to R.

In my case I was scared as hell to act like I wanted to let her go cuz I really didn't......just don't tell Mrs. the-guy this


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## scoot162

Did you have any children that recognized your actions with your wife? I my case, it will be difficult to hide this from our children because my wife and I were normally affectionite with each other. She however just recently insisted I do not show her affection anymore. She wants to see if she misses this or not.


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## iheartlife

That is an exhibition of loyalty to him.

That is just one more 'red flag' of evidence that she is wrapped up in him as much as ever.



the guy said:


> It suck to say but I do have the capacity to be uncaring and uncompassionate.
> 
> With that said it worked in my favor, my wife saw that I could easily let her go and it was her efforts that saved the marriage.


This. This is the point I reached as well as we are also reconciled.

When you're terrified of letting your marriage go, you don't make the same fearless choices. The truth is, whether she comes back to you and the marriage fully is out of your control. So the faster you reach this state of acceptance that you have to 'be willing to lose the marriage to save it,' the better.

How do you do this? Work on yourself. Be the best dad, be the best employee / business owner / manager, be the healthiest man you know how to be. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy, read Married Man Sex Life, read His Needs / Her Needs, but mostly, work on yourself. You need to be your strongest / smartest / best you've ever been. That's because not only is affair busting exhausting, but frankly you need to be prepared to live with her or without her.

This happened to me, and it happened to the_guy, and it happened to any number of other people who reached this point. The more you work on being your best self, the more your self confidence rises. And the more your self confidence rises, the more you realize that you aren't going to settle for second-best. And the more you understand that an affair is a form of emotional ABUSE, and that it is not something to be tolerated, the more you will be ready for the next stage of your life, whatever that may be.


----------



## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> That is an exhibition of loyalty to him.
> 
> That is just one more 'red flag' of evidence that she is wrapped up in him as much as ever.
> 
> 
> 
> This. This is the point I reached as well as we are also reconciled.
> 
> When you're terrified of letting your marriage go, you don't make the same fearless choices. The truth is, whether she comes back to you and the marriage fully is out of your control. So the faster you reach this state of acceptance that you have to 'be willing to lose the marriage to save it,' the better.
> 
> How do you do this? Work on yourself. Be the best dad, be the best employee / business owner / manager, be the healthiest man you know how to be. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy, read Married Man Sex Life, read His Needs / Her Needs, but mostly, work on yourself. You need to be your strongest / smartest / best you've ever been. That's because not only is affair busting exhausting, but frankly you need to be prepared to live with her or without her.
> 
> This happened to me, and it happened to the_guy, and it happened to any number of other people who reached this point. The more you work on being your best self, the more your self confidence rises. And the more your self confidence rises, the more you realize that you aren't going to settle for second-best. And the more you understand that an affair is a form of emotional ABUSE, and that it is not something to be tolerated, the more you will be ready for the next stage of your life, whatever that may be.


Reread this till you get it.


----------



## Machiavelli

scoot162 said:


> Thank you very much, I plan on staying in the marriage and working at it the best I can, it is my wife that is unsure what she wants. It is not my nature to be uncaring or not compassionate but it is now time for some toughness! I tried to be sympathetic and understanding of her needs after the a went down, but I got no where!


Exactly. Weakness gets you nowhere. Despite what women say with their mouths, that they want a wussy, weepy, sensitive, committed guy, their vaginal secretions say otherwise. Since you say you want to get her back, you need to turn yourself into the guy that provokes those secretions.

Where do you fall withing the male socio-sexual Hierarchy? knowing that about yourself will give you some good clues on what you need to do to get attraction back.

You've already been told by others to read these books:
No More Mr. Nice Guy
Married Man Sex Life Primer

Read them today. No excuses. You should be able to read one today and one tomorrow.

When you've done that, start reading Roissy. He explains the internal forces that cause women to act out sexually and how to use that to your advantage.

VAR and GPS your wife's car. Put spyware on her phone. You've got to know what your up against. 

Force the job change. This shows you exerting dominance.

Completely change your hairstyle to something really different. Start dressing at a higher social level than you do now. Start weight training for lean mass. Start going out at night. No explanation. Look good when leaving the house.

You have to get some Cave Man attraction going here, if you want to be successful. Without appealing to her primal, Limbic sex partner selection program, you are doomed to failure. It will probably fail anyway, since it seems to be so far from your personality type, but if you want to keep her you've got to change.


----------



## Machiavelli

scoot162 said:


> Did you have any children that recognized your actions with your wife? I my case, it will be difficult to hide this from our children because my wife and I were normally affectionite with each other. She however just recently insisted I do not show her affection anymore. She wants to see if she misses this or not.


Read what I just posted above, and read the f*cking links! The affair is still on, man. You need to start showing every indication of moving on. Your wife has no attraction for you and she thinks you can't get another woman. She may be right. If so, that's really bad for you, because women take their attraction cues from other women. If a woman doesn't think there is any chance of another woman poaching her man (women are turned off by men who aren't in a relationship already) she'll lose interest. They need to compete. Who was your wife competing for when she started working on her hot body? Not you, obviously.

Let her think she's got competition. Just get dressed in your new clothes, comb your new haircut, and say "I'm going out. Got some places to go and people to see. Don't wait up." Then go to the library or feed ducks at the park. Just let her wonder.


----------



## Cubby

scoot162 said:


> Thank you all for opening my eyes, it is time to get tough!!!


Yes, indeed....time to get tough! As I've been reading this thread, that's what kept popping into my head, "Scoot needs to get tough." You sound somewhat weak and wishy-washy. If that's how you are in real life, then that's a big reason your wife cheated. From now on, your mindset should be nothing but "firm and confident." (Chicks dig firm and confident) 
And one last thing.....STOP BLAMING YOURSELF!


----------



## scoot162

I am very physically fit, have been all my life. I run, lift and coach my daughters sports. I am in my midlife but still look and act young and still have six pack abs. I say i am somewhat sympathetic because I have been with my wife for 25 years and raising two daughters. I was not ashamed to play girl stuff with them when they were young and enjoy everything about them. My focus has been on my family as I said in my past posts and dont go out with the guys much or not at all. Guess my Ice hockey playing days came to an end for me after my first child was born. I am reading and taking this all in. Formulating a game plan and will start reading more of your recommendations. Thanks all!


----------



## the guy

scoot162 said:


> Did you have any children that recognized your actions with your wife? I my case, it will be difficult to hide this from our children because my wife and I were normally affectionite with each other. She however just recently insisted I do not show her affection anymore. She wants to see if she misses this or not.


22yr D and 18 yr S 

And yes they have witnessed alot of uncaring behaviors. I learned it from my parents. We shall see how they turn out.

See its easy when my mom and dad never kissed or held hands. I learned how to love thru my folks so I guess I'm blaming my parents for the marital issues I had.

As for as your case goes I can appreciate the balancing act cuz I've been thru it. but you need to keep a very close eye on your chic...now that you know her capacity to cheat don't let your self get sucked in *again* 

It be a cryin shame to give your kids the examble I had growing up.

What also sucks is your daughters are learning from there mom, and I feel sorry for there future SO. Those poor girls of yours are going to think they can behave like there mother and they will go thru guy after guy looking for someone just like ther dad.

I respect the fact you are pro marriage. but if anyone needs to work more on the marriage is your chick. Sorry I know you see it to so I can only suggest you focus on your self while you chic figures out whether she wants you or not.


On a side note, I was very proud of how my son broke up with his 1st cheating GF.


Whats that song by CCR "Teach Your Children Well"


----------



## the guy

Your hockey play experience might do you some good with your marriage.

Its hard to get checked into the boards by some one you love.

Your chic is going into this R 1/2 @ss and I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but I feel...just in case....I should warn you.


----------



## scoot162

You are absolutely right. My wife hadnt behaved like this ever before and was a mother everyone was envious of in the past. She changed the last couple years and started going out with younger coworkers. Said our connection was suffering as you know the story. Maybe she is tired of being a wife and mom?


----------



## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> You are absolutely right. My wife hadnt behaved like this ever before and was a mother everyone was envious of in the past. She changed the last couple years and started going out with younger coworkers. Said our connection was suffering as you know the story. Maybe she is tired of being a wife and mom?


did you marry and have kids young?


----------



## Chaparral

scoot162 said:


> You are absolutely right. My wife hadnt behaved like this ever before and was a mother everyone was envious of in the past. She changed the last couple years and started going out with younger coworkers. Said our connection was suffering as you know the story. Maybe she is tired of being a wife and mom?


Maybe you just quit manning up and ignore her. Her sex drive has increased with age not decreased.


----------



## the guy

We started young so ya its there, but wht I see is now that my kids are grown and off to college and doing there thing, my and Mrs. the_guy are so tight. There is so much left...I'm 45 fWW is 41 and we still have a lot in front of us, especially these days.

No more coaching, no mare taxi driver, no more scholl events, there is so much more time together....why deal with some one new and all that crap that comes with it.
Once the wayward gets out of the fog they realize how much a fantasy it really was.

One of my fWW consequences is no more toxic friends. Dude that GNO and TF's will kill a marraige. 

Yours could die later rather then sooner if she keeps it up. I mean TF are just as dangerous as an AP.


----------



## warlock07

scoot162 said:


> Will try my best while still managing my daily commitments. Seems she has the upper hand in this situation and is back and forth with her emotions as well as mine. I would like to move forward but she is hesitant. Will continue to be supportive and show her my commitment. It was told to me that many women would love to have what my wife and I have, one reason why it is hard to understand the straying. We were always close and our communication has been strained the past years mainly due to everyday life and schedules with the family.


God help this guy !!! 

Start talking about the big D. She know you won't leave her. That is the exact reason she treats you like crap. OP, please listen to the advice. 

You are in very dense fog. There are some other posters like you in TAM. It took them a few months to see the reality of the situation. The faster you realize how bad she is treating you know, you might reach a stage where you won't even want her. If you have the time, read the posts from a poster called "our vision shattered". His wife kicked him out of the house and move a meth head into his house(which he was paying for). It took him some time but he was finally out of the fog last month. You resemble him a lot

Your wife is currently in a very selfish state of mind. You cannot trust or believe one bit she says until you can verify it.


And please tell the OM's fiance about the affair. Imagine yourself in her position before you were married. You could literally save her life. Please!!


----------



## scoot162

We dated for 5 years and after we were married we had our first child 5 years later. So we had 10 years just the two of us.


----------



## the guy

Your wife will know exactly what she wants once you stop all joint account, ask her to leave, and want full custody of your kids.

Again a perception on your part. Letting your wife know you want to work on the M will not work in your favor. She needs to believe you are gone and there will be conseqences. Her lack of affection mybe a withdrawl from her boy friend but then again you don't know for sure.

Investigate and confirm! 

The OM has to be completely out of the picture for your marriage to work.


----------



## the guy

scoot162 said:


> We dated for 5 years and after we were married we had our first child 5 years later. So we had 10 years just the two of us.


We started right off the bat, so now we have 10 yeasr if not more infront of us.

I guess my point is the difference between you marriages, I still think your chic doesn't see the how bright the future can be OR NOT BE! You might need to show her how dark it could be if she continues.


----------



## MattMatt

scoot162 said:


> Everyones advice is pointing to the big D. What about how this will disrupt the girls? We both care so much about our children



ARGH!!! NO! only *one* person in your marriage cares about your children. *YOU*

*Your wife could care two mouldy figs for your children.*


----------



## MattMatt

warlock07 said:


> God help this guy !!!
> 
> Start talking about the big D. She know you won't leave her. That is the exact reason she treats you like crap. OP, please listen to the advice.
> 
> You are in very dense fog. There are some other posters like you in TAM. It took them a few months to see the reality of the situation. The faster you realize how bad she is treating you know, you might reach a stage where you won't even want her. If you have the time, read the posts from a poster called "our vision shattered". His wife kicked him out of the house and move a meth head into his house(which he was paying for). It took him some time but he was finally out of the fog last month. You resemble him a lot
> 
> Your wife is currently in a very selfish state of mind. You cannot trust or believe one bit she says until you can verify it.
> 
> 
> And please tell the OM's fiance about the affair. Imagine yourself in her position before you were married. You could literally save her life. Please!!


:iagree:

Please tell her.


----------



## Cubby

the guy said:


> Your wife will know exactly what she wants once you stop all joint account, ask her to leave, and want full custody of your kids.
> 
> Again a perception on your part.* Letting your wife know you want to work on the M will not work in your favor. She needs to believe you are gone and there will be conseqences.* Her lack of affection mybe a withdrawl from her boy friend but then again you don't know for sure.
> 
> Investigate and confirm!
> 
> The OM has to be completely out of the picture for your marriage to work.


Scoot, the bolded part above seems wrong doesn't it? But it's not. Time to adopt an "I'll be just fine without you" attitude. But continue to be dad of the year with your daughters.


----------



## Emerald

scoot162 said:


> You are absolutely right. My wife hadnt behaved like this ever before and was a mother everyone was envious of in the past. She changed the last couple years and started going out with younger coworkers. Said our connection was suffering as you know the story. Maybe she is tired of being a wife and mom?


Still in the BS fog putting your "hot" wife on a pedestal.

I seriously doubt that "everyone" was "envious" of her.....sheesh

Maybe she is tired of being a wife and mom. It is exhausting (mom) but millions of us do it w/o cheating.


----------



## Acabado

The 180 degree rules
No More Mr Nice Guy
Just Let Them Go


----------



## the guy

MattMatt said:


> ARGH!!! NO! only *one* person in your marriage cares about your children. *YOU*
> 
> *Your wife could care two mouldy figs for your children.*


A big part of caring for her children, is caring about there father. her priority is the OM. 
Heaven for bid she cheat on her boyfriend by showing her husband any effection.

I believe when it comes to remorse the is a huge degree of submission a wayward shows.....dropping to there knees and making an offering of them selves that shows how much they want to keep the marriage. 

A betrayed can not work on the marriage until that degree of submission occures IMHO.


----------



## Machiavelli

scoot162 said:


> I am very physically fit, have been all my life. I run, lift and coach my daughters sports. I am in my midlife but still look and act young and still have* six pack abs.*


There you go. Do you have the 1.4:1 ratio waist to chest? If so, you'll be up to your huevos in women, soon. Your WW is in for a most rude awakening. That is, if you will only quit taking it in the shorts. Your only chance is to kick her to the curb. It probably won't work, but the sooner you start, the better the odds.


----------



## Chaparral

She doesn't want a divorce because she needs you to be the babysitter.


----------



## Machiavelli

chapparal said:


> She doesn't want a divorce because she needs you to be the babysitter.


QFT.


----------



## scoot162

She apologized to me in a text today for all the pain and hurt she caused me. This is a start but after reading alot of these threads on this subject, she still has an abundance of remorse to show me. She really is confused as to what she wants from our marriage and out of life. I know what she has done to me is unexcuseable but she is still my wife and mother of my children. I want to forgive her but at this stage my anger overshadowds. This definitely is the most difficult thing I have gone through in my life to this point.


----------



## sandc

Too easy. Ask her if a text is supposed to make everything better?

Ask her what she would expect of you if you had cheated.


----------



## scoot162

This is the text I received from my wife today. "I love you and I know you are sorry for whats happened. I am also very sorry for all the pain and hurt I have caused you. Everyday I wake up and I cant believe that we are going thru this. (I am assuming the this is me being too distant with her for her liking - which is what caused her behavior.) I always believed that we were untouchable and that fact could be why its so hard to get past this. Things have changed in me that are beyond my control Im still trying to let those feelings come back. Thank you for being so patient and understanding. You are one of a kind."


----------



## skip76

scoot162 said:


> This is the text I received from my wife today. "I love you and I know you are sorry for whats happened. I am also very sorry for all the pain and hurt I have caused you. Everyday I wake up and I cant believe that we are going thru this. (I am assuming the this is me being too distant with her for her liking - which is what caused her behavior.) I always believed that we were untouchable and that fact could be why its so hard to get past this. Things have changed in me that are beyond my control Im still trying to let those feelings come back. Thank you for being so patient and understanding. You are one of a kind."


your response, 

"things are changing in me too, i can no longer allow myself to be treated like this. we need to talk" then go dark for a brief while and let her stew on that.


----------



## lordmayhem

It doesn't take much to see what's coming. She'll cry a few crocodile tears, while you're desperate enough to have her string you along while she continues to cake eat. You still have her up on that pedestal because "she's still your wife and the mother of your children". 

True BS fog here. Yet another slow train wreck that I don't want to watch. Either you wake up out of this fog OR you remain in the hell of limbo. The choice is yours.


----------



## CH

scoot162 said:


> She however just recently insisted I do not show her affection anymore. She wants to see if she misses this or not.


So, you stay together. You keep paying the bills for everyone. But you can't touch, look, hug, kiss or even breathe on her until she decides if she still wants you?

Wonder where I've heard this before and how did this situation work out in the end....


----------



## Acabado

Crickets to that text.
Total blameshifter. No remorse at all. Fake sorry. Thing what "happened to *us*"? What. The. Fc0k!
Also still telling you she won't stop cake eating. She will think about whant she's ready (meaning wait for me in case it doesn't work out with OM, in that case I would need to to take care of me).

It ends when you say it ends.
Don't offer yourself as back up plan. Have self respect.


----------



## warlock07

Have you informed the fiance of the OM?


And like other posters pointed out, words mean nothing. Only actions count. It is oft repeated theme in case if cheaters. They bullsh!t well!!


----------



## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> Things have changed in me that are _beyond my control_


Translated: 
_Through my own selfish choices_, I became inappropriately close and intimate with someone I found sexually attractive, and as a consequence became infatuated with him. At the same time, because I spent so much time, energy and emotion on him, I had the sensation of "falling in love" butterflies with him, and "falling out of love" with you. Not that any of this is about real, actual, love.



scoot162 said:


> Im still trying to let those feelings come back.


Translated:
However, because I still have contact with my affair partner, and you aren't even sure how much contact I have, I'm actually not trying all that hard. I became addicted to being infatuated with him, and I'm still getting my "hits" although you might not think that I am, or haven't figured out how. Until I end ALL contact with him of EVERY KIND, I won't even begin to try to "let" those feelings come back. 



scoot162 said:


> Thank you for being so patient and understanding. You are one of a kind."


Translated:
Most men worth their salt, like my affair partner*, would never put up with my profoundly selfish behavior. They would never tolerate me having an affair at all. And they certainly wouldn't put up with me continuing to see him in any shape or form. If they knew there was even a possibility of contact, they'd verify what it was. They'd tell me to quit my job or the marriage was over, because I still have contact with my affair partner that way. But fortunately, you're scared enough of losing our "marriage" that you won't take the steps to end my infatuation. You are one of a kind.



*Note: her affair partner is actually a scumbag and perhaps a weasel and a wimp, but this is what _she_ thinks about him, not the truth.


----------



## scoot162

I am waiting on actions, but my patience is running thin. I am focusing on myself and my girls at this time.


----------



## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> I am waiting on actions, but my patience is running thin. I am focusing on myself and my girls at this time.


We cross posted. I know my post is harsh, but if you read some other threads here--wrsteele1's in particular--you will see how this distancing almost certainly signals continued contact of some kind with her affair partner.

Have you installed a VAR in the car?


----------



## scoot162

I have not installed a VAR in her car. At this time school has not started up yet and the girls are home with her during the day.


----------



## happyman64

scoot162 said:


> This is the text I received from my wife today. "I love you and I know you are sorry for whats happened. I am also very sorry for all the pain and hurt I have caused you. Everyday I wake up and I cant believe that we are going thru this. (I am assuming the this is me being too distant with her for her liking - which is what caused her behavior.) I always believed that we were untouchable and that fact could be why its so hard to get past this. Things have changed in me that are beyond my control Im still trying to let those feelings come back. Thank you for being so patient and understanding. You are one of a kind."


You should have responded to her like this 

"You do not love me. A person that loves me would also love themselves. Your actions lately have shown you have love for no one including yourself. Everyday you wakeup and you say I this and I that. The true signs of a selfish person is when they wakeup and first think of themselves.

The only thing that has changed within you is that you have become totally self centered. It is all about you. Again, a true sign of how selfish you have become. You are in control of everything you do. Start taking blame for those actions. I no longer accept any blame for your cheating. That is all on you. Control can be a yes or it can be a no. Selfish people never say no.

My patience is wearing thin and you have no understanding of how I feel.

The only point you got right is that I am one of a kind....."

That is how you should respond if you feel that way or if you even want to respond.

HM64


----------



## scoot162

Very well stated. I do not normally think like this and is good to understand in another dimension. I usually am an upbeat, loving life, see the glass half full kinda guy. I find it difficult to see bad in people, usually give them the benefit of the doubt. I however am seeing things differently these days, I dont trust anyone, cant take anyones word, and now I question in my mind every little move. I dont like the person who I have become. This is not me! I hear you when you say selfish, All the things that I have done over the many years was every taken into consideration. All my efforts, all my love, all my dedication and hard work, just thrown away and for what? I will never be the same, will I ever trust anyone again?


----------



## TDSC60

scoot162 said:


> Very well stated. I do not normally think like this and is good to understand in another dimension. I usually am an upbeat, loving life, see the glass half full kinda guy. I find it difficult to see bad in people, usually give them the benefit of the doubt. I however am seeing things differently these days, I dont trust anyone, cant take anyones word, and now I question in my mind every little move. I dont like the person who I have become. This is not me! I hear you when you say selfish, All the things that I have done over the many years was every taken into consideration. All my efforts, all my love, all my dedication and hard work, just thrown away and for what? I will never be the same, will I ever trust anyone again?


You have been living in a world where you expect everyone to live by your code of moral behavior. You are setting yourself up for disappointment. 

It took me a long time and many painful lessons to learn that unconditional trust can be a dangerous thing. Anyone can be selfish. People do change over time.

Your wife has turned into a selfish, self-centered person.

It is a hard lesson to learn, but a healthy dose of skepticism can be a good thing.


----------



## happyman64

And Scoot never say never.

I got screwed over many years ago. I ditched that fiancée and my friends that cheated with her.

I said the same thing as you.

I became skeptical and wary of people. That is good.

But you will love again. You have to. It is human nature. And someday you will learn to trust again.

I did over twenty years ago and I am glad for that 2nd chance to do it right.

Stay strong, do not lose your faith.

Just pick your friends wisely. Especially the one you marry and have children with.

HM64


----------



## Rick495

Read these books:

Sex at Dawn
Women's Infidelity
Sperm Wars


----------



## MattMatt

scoot162 said:


> She apologized to me in a text today for all the pain and hurt she caused me. This is a start but after reading alot of these threads on this subject, she still has an abundance of remorse to show me. She really is confused as to what she wants from our marriage and out of life. I know what she has done to me is unexcuseable but she is still my wife and mother of my children. I want to forgive her but at this stage my anger overshadowds. This definitely is the most difficult thing I have gone through in my life to this point.


Do not forgive her just yet awhile...


----------



## MattMatt

scoot162 said:


> Very well stated. I do not normally think like this and is good to understand in another dimension. I usually am an upbeat, loving life, see the glass half full kinda guy. I find it difficult to see bad in people, usually give them the benefit of the doubt. I however am seeing things differently these days, I dont trust anyone, cant take anyones word, and now I question in my mind every little move. I dont like the person who I have become. This is not me! I hear you when you say selfish, All the things that I have done over the many years was every taken into consideration. All my efforts, all my love, all my dedication and hard work, just thrown away and for what? I will never be the same, will I ever trust anyone again?


Stop being a "my glass is half full guy!" Become, instead, the: "Who the f*** has been drinking out of *my* glass?" guy.

And who has been drinking out of your glass? The OM has.

Time to metaphorically dash the glass from his dirty, greedy lips.

How? *Expose the affair.*


----------



## warlock07

Have you informed the fiance?


----------



## scoot162

Working on this day by day. Seeing improvement in myself. More good days than bad. Still have negative thoughts. Will surely have them for some time. Praying daily and keeping it as positive as I can.


----------



## scoot162

I have not informed the fiance.


----------



## scoot162

Thank you for the inspiration!


----------



## scoot162

How do I get out of the BS fog. I want to make it work, I want to be happy again with my wife. I messed up when I didnt listen to her when she said we were growing apart because of life demands. Do I not give her a chance to find herself and the respect that I deserve? She is in a selfish state right now, how long do I give her to prove to me that she is remorseful and wants to be all she can be for her, me and our family?


----------



## warlock07

No you want to be happy with or without your wife


----------



## warlock07

scoot162 said:


> I have not informed the fiance.


You can save person's life. Please do it


----------



## TDSC60

scoot162 said:


> How do I get out of the BS fog. I want to make it work, I want to be happy again with my wife. I messed up when I didnt listen to her when she said we were growing apart because of life demands. Do I not give her a chance to find herself and the respect that I deserve? *She is in a selfish state right now, how long do I give her to prove to me that she is remorseful and wants to be all she can be for her, me and our family?*


How long do you want to be the nice, doormat husband? As long as you act nice, support her, wait for her to become the wife you want, wait for her to respect you, you will be waiting a LOOOOONG time. As long as you continue to do the things you are doing now - that is at least how long you will wait. 

You are allowing her all the power. You are allowing her to set the timetable. You are allowing her to control your life and your marriage. 

She has no incentive to change. Plan B is patiently waiting for his turn in line.


----------



## the guy

Now that school is just around the corner, I have a bad feeling its only going to get worse. Even though you are not getting any affection from her now, I have a feeling her distance will grow as she continues to surround her self with her toxic colleuges and OM.

You spent the summer trying to nice your way thru this cuz some dumb @ss counselor had you both believe her cheating is your fault. Now she is off to work with one big sweep under ther rug.

So summer was a good break but by mid simester/break you are not going to like what your wife has returned to. Unfortinately its just a matter of time the GNO start.

Sorry for the dismal warning, but just maybe you can prepare your self for it the best way you can.


----------



## Goldmember357

Dude she is gone there is no saving a person like that. I am sorry to be blunt but its the truth she has always been this type of person. I advice you to file for divorce immediately and run! RUN TAKE OFF LEAVE!

I think you deserve better. But alas it always comes down to what the betrayed feels

Do you think you deserve better?


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## iheartlife

scoot--you cannot nice her out of an affair. You can't nice her out of infatuation. It's too powerful of an emotion for that--you clearly are underestimating this and thinking you can wait it out.

Do you know how long someone can remain infatuated with another person with intermittent contact? YEARS. Two years is the average length of a full-blown affair, but if that contact is more sparse, it can last much, much longer than that...my husband's emotional affair being a classic example. Because he only saw his AP every few weeks and did not communicate every day, the affair lasted 4.5 years.

If I had purposefully waited all that time, I would have gone insane--wouldn't you? The reason I outlasted my husband's affair is because I didn't know he was in it. We can talk about various other reasons (like his AP having no desire to leave her husband) but it really boils down to that.

*HAVE YOU READ:*
*No More Mr. Nice Guy--you need this ASAP
Married Man Sex Life*

these two books, over and over, have been highly recommended by many, many male forum members. These include members who reconciled with their wives, and those who didn't.


----------



## iheartlife

Last thing, scoot.


I feel like you aren't reading the advice.


You are not digesting the fact that
*YOUR WIFE HAS SOME FORM OF CONTACT WITH HER AFFAIR PARTNER*

and as a result, her infatuation with him continues and she finds herself unable to bond with you.


Are you making ANY effort to find out how much they are in contact? We know that they spend time near each other daily, if I have understood you correctly.

(P.S.: please also read my post at the end of page 10)


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## The bishop

So you are so worried of putting your footdown that it will cause her to pick him. She already has!! She is a cake eater but make no mistake he owns her HEART BODY AND SOUL. This isn't going to end well for you... They are calling the shots and probalby belittling you for letting them do so. 

Men like you make it easy for men like me to take your wive's and have our way with them. FACT

Brutal huh? Sorry but the truth can really hurt sometime. Recognize it and do something, Cheaters are predators; we know what we are doing, like doing it (the thrill), and won't stop until real consequences hit us in the face. Your WW and her OM are cheaters, they like what they are doing and won't stop unless you force it. 

Get mad, FIGHT for your MARRIAGE, you WW needs to see this to snap out of it... there is no way around it. Get tough, take control.


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## the guy

@bishop, even at 37 posts you get it.

scoot, you can not nice your way out of this. We're not saying be a crazed mad man. but be calm and firm in that you will no longer share your wife and if it continues you can confidently move on and find that someone the appreciates someone protecting the relationship/ marriage.


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## Machiavelli

As a general rule, women are attracted to swaggering men, not milquetoast doormats.


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## Shaggy

You need to really nuke this affair by deploying all the tool you can:

VAR inher car
VAR in the home 
Get her cell logs 
Find the OM, find how where when the hooked up 
Exposé Expose exposé.

Nice and sweet is how you attract bees not save a marriage.


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## RClawson

Scooot,

I am still stuck two pages ago when she told you in her text that she cannot control the way she feels. This is total BS.

I am sorry guy but you are ignoring the advice here and that is what is making this more difficult than it should be. You can make this ultimatum time or you can drag this out forever while she gaslights and cake eats. Your choice but I tell you it is the truth.


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## the guy

RClawson said:


> Scooot,
> 
> I am still stuck two pages ago when she told you in her text that she cannot control the way she feels. This is total BS.
> 
> I am sorry guy but you are ignoring the advice here and that is what is making this more difficult than it should be. You can make this ultimatum time or you can drag this out forever while she gaslights and cake eats. Your choice but I tell you it is the truth.


Welcome back RC....

sorry for the thread jack


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## scoot162

My wife has been trying harder to be more affectionate with me lately. I understand I need to push and be harder. She made the statement, "I can only hope things will keep getting better". Can someone provide meaning to this. I want to think she is telling me she is trying her hardest but don't see it quite yet. Also this could be BS, since she lied to me so many times.


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## Regret214

scoot162 said:


> My wife has been trying harder to be more affectionate with me lately. I understand I need to push and be harder. She made the statement, "I can only hope things will keep getting better". Can someone provide meaning to this. I want to think she is telling me she is trying her hardest but don't see it quite yet. Also this could be BS, since she lied to me so many times.



From my perspective that statement sounds like "let's keep status quo because hard work is, ummm, hard."


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## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> *Unfortunately my wife works with the OM*.


scoot--will you PLEASE read the thread posted by wrsteele1.


Are you hoping that somehow, you will post and the answer will be different?

You said that teaching positions are "slim" where you reside.

What's it going to be--her job or the marriage?


*What are you doing to verify that she is no longer in contact with him?*


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## iheartlife

Can I just share, I find the title of this thread extremely appropriate, as it is turning out


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## warlock07

Why won't you tell the OM's fiance? Because you promised him that you would not? Telling her is not revenge. It will definitely end the affair and it will give someone a choice to marry a cheater or not. Or are you scared your wife might be exposed?


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## lordmayhem

iheartlife said:


> Can I just share, I find the title of this thread extremely appropriate, as it is turning out


We can only provide the tools through our comments and advice. The BS ultimately has to do the work. Like they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Some people have to learn the hard way.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


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## scoot162

Back again,working on no contact letter to om. My wife has been focusing on me and or family since I laid out the ultimatum of all commit or d. I believe the nc letter should have already been written earlier but never too late. Also, I contacted om via text to reinforce nc and assured me he will honor. I am not completely trusting but feel it is step in right direction. She seems more engaged with family activities again and has not been out anywhere other than couple or family outings. She seems happier and more content which also makes my life and emotions more tolerable. I realize this is going to take a considerable amount of time to get through. I still am focusing on myself, my daughters and of course my marriage. I have revamped and working on my failures by freeing up more time for just the two of us, more intimacy, helping out more with home chores, which were the main concerns my wife had with our struggling marriage. Optimistically cautious.


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## Regret214

I know for me, Dig struggled a lot because I went to see the xOM when I was supposed to be at work. One thing that helped him begin to trust was when I downloaded a GPS tracker on my phone and texted him to download and add me as a "friend". He was very happy and I have no problem turning on the GPS whenever I leave the house. Even if it's just to go to the store. If your wife truly wants to work this out, these are the kinds of things she needs to do for you.


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## scoot162

Not sure how she would accept this idea but it is worth a try to put my mind at ease. It is a horrible feeling to not trust someone, especially the one you love more than life! Thank you very much for your input!


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## Thinkitthrough

Scoot, please forgive my bluntness. At the risk of seeming Yoda like things either are or are not. If it only seems like it, it usually isn't. I can't give you advice because far wiser men and women have given you what you need. Speaking as one who has live in fear most of his life, living in fear is no life. If you can't save everything, save what is most important to you and keep moving.


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## RClawson

Thinkitthrough said:


> Scoot, please forgive my bluntness. At the risk of seeming Yoda like things either are or are not. If it only seems like it, it usually isn't. I can't give you advice because far wiser men and women have given you what you need. Speaking as one who has live in fear most of his life, living in fear is no life. If you can't save everything, save what is most important to you and keep moving.


Very wise counsel.


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## Will_Kane

scoot162 said:


> Not sure *how she would accept this *idea but it is worth a try to put my mind at ease. It is a horrible feeling to not trust someone, especially the one you love more than life! Thank you very much for your input!


You worry how she will accept things, do you think she worries about how you will accept things?


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## mrstj4sho88

Sorry I think she is still having an affair. Once she started cheating it might be hard for her to stop.The OM and her are just taking a break. She and OM might be better at hiding the affair now. Cheaters are selfish users who enjoy the fun and games. Do you really want to live life unhappy with her. You no that she lies to you. I think the OM is telling you lies too.Think about it all cheaters do is tell lies..


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## Malaise

scoot162 said:


> My wife has been trying harder to be more affectionate with me lately. I understand I need to push and be harder. *She made the statement, "I can only hope things will keep getting better". *Can someone provide meaning to this. I want to think she is telling me she is trying her hardest but don't see it quite yet. Also this could be BS, since she lied to me so many times.


Friend:

Not to get political but this sounds like "Hope and Change"

Hope alone does squat

Work is what is needed


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## scoot162

My wife still has male coworkers that text her. Should I be alarmed or am I just overly suspicious and gun shy? Am being to controlling? I did tell her I thought it was inappropriate and asked her how she would feel if I were getting texts from other women. She doesn't seem to concerned but it is uncomfortable for me,


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## the guy

you are not controlling you are protecting your marriage and have every right to do so.

Controlling is telling your spouse what color clothes to wear. but confronting your spouse about no affair proofing the marriage is just common sence.

Now, it is up to your wife to except this protection and what you will do when this protection is turned down by her.

You cna't control her, but you can contro what you will tolorate and what you do when someone crosses your boundries and the consequences that they face when this happens.


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## bigtone128

Scoot, I would like to tell you to follow the advice given by the members on this board - the advice you are gven is by people that have been there, done that. I came to here crushed after my wife's MLC affair after being together for 26 years - and some of the advice seemed counter-intuitive - like no contact, exposing the affair, etc. because I WAS STILL OPERATING UNDER THE OLD RULES...rules by which my former spouse and I lived by when we were happy...but when one is involved in an affair..THESE OLD RULES DO NOT APPLY........my spouse is NOT the person I married...she's a different person now...EVERYTIME I did not take the advice given by members on this site, I got burned. People here know the game you are involved in......you are (and I was) so in over your head it is not funny.......I used to think they were being overly serious when they said how selfish, etc. my STBXW was... but they were 100% correct....affairs change people and not for the better......they cannot go back to their former selves...it is like Satan himself walked in and possessed a soul....sad to watch but you cant save her..she's gone man!


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## warlock07

Did you tell the OM's fiancee ?


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## warlock07

scoot162 said:


> My wife still has male coworkers that text her. Should I be alarmed or am I just overly suspicious and gun shy? Am being to controlling? I did tell her I thought it was inappropriate and asked her how she would feel if I were getting texts from other women. She doesn't seem to concerned but it is uncomfortable for me,


She lost the privilege when she cheated on you. 

No, it is not controlling.


In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if she is still in the affair. You won't even tell the OM's fiancee. I have little sympathy for you.


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## scoot162

I see positive signs in her and what about those who have worked through the crises and made things better? I do not wish to end our marriage and will work as hard as I have to to keep my family together for myself, my wife and our daughters. I do not want to give up and I want to trust her again. I am taking a different approach and trying to be and do more with the advice given by members on this site. It is very difficult as you know, while still focusing on your obligations of your job and children and family. There is so much going on from day to day that days seem to flow into the next. I realize for this to work it will take a considerable amount of time and effort by both of us. I realize she is not the same person I married and I will never get the old person back but many couples do make it through this and I want to be one of those that do.


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## happyman64

scoot162 said:


> I see positive signs in her and what about those who have worked through the crises and made things better? I do not wish to end our marriage and will work as hard as I have to to keep my family together for myself, my wife and our daughters. I do not want to give up and I want to trust her again. I am taking a different approach and trying to be and do more with the advice given by members on this site. It is very difficult as you know, while still focusing on your obligations of your job and children and family. There is so much going on from day to day that days seem to flow into the next. I realize for this to work it will take a considerable amount of time and effort by both of us. I realize she is not the same person I married and I will never get the old person back but many couples do make it through this and I want to be one of those that do.


Scoot,

Your goals are noble. I wish you luck.

Make sure the positive signs she shows you continue everyday.

But most of all make sure she never uses your time with the kids as one of her excuses to cheat.

She needs to stop being selfish. That is the key.

I hope she is up to it because you certainly are......

Good Luck,

HM64


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## bigtone128

scoot162 said:


> but many couples do make it through this and I want to be one of those that do.


But does SHE???


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## scoot162

I am sure that is yet to be seen. She appears to be engaged in the mending process, however, many posts on this site do not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I am continually cautious and am in a stronger frame of mind then I was a month ago. We seem to be living the normal life of raising a family, which is a very hectic one with the girls involved with many activites. This aspect of the relationship has not changed as I still am very involved with their activites. Much growth and mending is required in our marriage to repair this broken bond.


----------



## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> I am sure that is yet to be seen. She appears to be engaged in the mending process, however, many posts on this site do not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I am continually cautious and am in a stronger frame of mind then I was a month ago. We seem to be living the normal life of raising a family, which is a very hectic one with the girls involved with many activites. This aspect of the relationship has not changed as I still am very involved with their activites. Much growth and mending is required in our marriage to repair this broken bond.


Did you know that experts recommend 15 hrs per week one on one with the tv off for healthy marriages to stay protected. The two of you need at least 20. How many quality hours are you getting per week, no kids, no tv?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Did you expose to OM's fiance ? It will also reduce the chance that they might have taken the affair underground


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Did you expose to OM's fiance ? It will also reduce the chance that they might have taken the affair underground


I am all for exposure. I wonder about exposing at this point however. If his fiance dumps OM, does that create more oppurtunity for WW to leave OP and reconnect with OM. 

OTH his fiance needs to know but when?


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## scoot162

This is my fear! Exposing to fiance will create a situation that may be detrimental to our healing and mending process. Am I off base with this thinking?


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## warlock07

Like his fiance's presence stopped them from having an affair in the first place. 

I think you are way off base with this line of thinking. And if your wife is not having an affair only because he is with his fiance, it won't take her long to find another guy who is single or is as scummy as the OM.


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## scoot162

Are there other affects of telling the fiance that may be positive or negative to our marriage? How do I find out who the fiance is? Thank you for your advice.


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## warlock07

One more advantage is she will keep tabs on the OM if they reconcile. So if the affair went underground and she finds out about it, you will have someone that will return you the favor. 

The OM might confess more facts about the affair to his gf than your wife did, which might be very important to you.(More often than not, cheating partners confess to one another about their multiple affairs )


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## scoot162

I still have much to work on as far as progress with me. I still have lots of doubts, still have problems with trust and still waiting for the true regret from her. I may never get the sincere apology I am waiting for. I know I must be strong but today I am having a rough day. I have good days and bad. I guess my problem is that I still love my wife very much and see her as she can be again. Someone said the person I married will not be again because of the A but I want her back so bad. Does she want me? I pray she can remove the bad from her sole that she can be the mother and wife she once was!!


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## Kallan Pavithran

scoot162 said:


> I still have much to work on as far as progress with me. I still have lots of doubts, still have problems with trust and still waiting for the true regret from her. *I may never get the sincere apology I am waiting for.* I know I must be strong but today I am having a rough day. I have good days and bad. I guess my problem is that I still love my wife very much and see her as she can be again. Someone said the person I married will not be again because of the A but I want her back so bad. *Does she want me?* I pray she can remove the bad from her sole that she can be the mother and wife she once was!!



File for D, if she wanted you in her life she will fight for you else you know the answer.


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## Jonesey

scoot162 said:


> This is my fear! Exposing to fiance will create a situation that may be detrimental to our healing and mending process. Am I off base with this thinking?


With one exposure at least then you will know,where you stand
with your wife.Like Warlock pointed out. Did OMG stop them?
NO.
Try not to live in fear.Because that is sadly what you do as of today..


----------



## Entropy3000

SomedayDig said:


> AYE! There's the rub.
> 
> No wonder you're having a tough time with this. She still sees this guy on a daily basis.
> 
> The only thing is, can you ask her to change jobs? You're going to see a flood of advice here saying that there will never be NC (no contact) if the two of them work together and that she MUST leave her job if she fully intends on reconciliation.
> 
> While true, sometimes the ability to leave a job isn't so easy. She might be in a specialized field or whatnot. But again - what is it worth to YOU?


Marriage or Job. Easy choice if the marriage is an absolute. Otherwise tough call. This may mean selling cars and or homes.


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## scoot162

I have done pretty much a complete transformation on my marriage what time allows me. I have stopped going into my work so early in the morning which contributed to my lack of energy and drive in the evening hours. Just by changing this, it allows me to stay up longer in the evening to have alone time with my wife after the girls go to bed. I have picked up the responsibilities in the home by doing more chores to help take some of this off my wife. I make time to spend time with my wife on the weekend whether going out or just spending alone time together without the girls around. I send her texts everyday telling her private, intimate gestures and compliment her daily. All these things are not new to her but I did get away from them due to our busy schedule raising a family. Balance is key and my focus fell on my girls where I failed to balance my relationship with my wife. I admit this and I fixed it. I feel my wife is either having a difficult time forgiving me for letting us get to this point or having a difficult time forgiving herself for the pain she put me and our family through for having the A. I am a fighter, and feel deep down she will love me again, however, i am a stronger man because of this and my girls still are a major focus in my life. I will never really understand all of this and why she chose to do what she did. Our communication with each other degraded over the years, mainly because of our schedules with the children. Since I plan our time away from the girls 95 percent of the time, I failed to balance. Why could she not schedule time away for us if she thought thing between us were unstable? I ask myself that question almost everyday!


----------



## happyman64

scoot162 said:


> I have done pretty much a complete transformation on my marriage what time allows me. I have stopped going into my work so early in the morning which contributed to my lack of energy and drive in the evening hours. Just by changing this, it allows me to stay up longer in the evening to have alone time with my wife after the girls go to bed. I have picked up the responsibilities in the home by doing more chores to help take some of this off my wife. I make time to spend time with my wife on the weekend whether going out or just spending alone time together without the girls around. I send her texts everyday telling her private, intimate gestures and compliment her daily. All these things are not new to her but I did get away from them due to our busy schedule raising a family. Balance is key and my focus fell on my girls where I failed to balance my relationship with my wife. I admit this and I fixed it. I feel my wife is either having a difficult time forgiving me for letting us get to this point or having a difficult time forgiving herself for the pain she put me and our family through for having the A. I am a fighter, and feel deep down she will love me again, however, i am a stronger man because of this and my girls still are a major focus in my life. * I will never really understand all of this and why she chose to do what she did.* Our communication with each other degraded over the years, mainly because of our schedules with the children. Since I plan our time away from the girls 95 percent of the time, I failed to balance. *Why could she not schedule time away for us if she thought thing between us were unstable?* I ask myself that question almost everyday!


I can answer that for you on why she did this?

Because your wife is selfish.

How is that in a nutshell.

I have 3 daughters and spend plenty of time with them. My wife loves it. Does it cut down on the us time? Hell yeah.

It did not make my wife cheat on me. 

She loves me alot more for it. And shows me that love and committment everyday.


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## cledus_snow

you have a bad case of "nice guy" syndrome.


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## SomedayDig

Scoot...buddy, I'm gonna admit this here and now (even if Regret does find her way into this thread): A few weeks ago, even with things in our reconciliation going fairly well, I decided I had to get tough with Regret. I had a feeling that there was still a bit of trickle truth going on. I couldn't shake the feeling. One night at my golf league I was partnered up with an acquaintance who just happens to be an attorney. We were the last group and only the two of us, so I confided a bit in him and asked what my rights were. I listened.

A week later, I told Regret that she had one last time to tell me the truth. Again, she gave me just enough info to "satisfy" me. That's when I told her the name of the attorney and told her that he would be in contact with her.

I got extremely tough with her. Things changed quite drastically immediately. I can tell you that I don't have that nagging feeling of my Spider senses warning me. That was 8/30.

I know this sh-t sucks, man. Hell, there's a lot of us here who have gone through it. We know what happens. We know how it feels. Most of all we don't want to see anyone go through it again.


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## scoot162

I am a nice guy and yes, it does get me in trouble sometimes. I am not an angry person and it takes a lot to get me mad. I was very mad when this all occurred!


----------



## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> I am a nice guy and yes, it does get me in trouble sometimes. I am not an angry person and it takes a lot to get me mad. I was very mad when this all occurred!


scoot: time to do an assessment.

What I'm hearing from you is that after finding out about her affair, you sat down and took a hard look at your marriage and who you are as a husband. You thought a lot about what you could do differently, how to meet your kids' needs while also being more attentive to your wife. Spending more time with her and less time at work. Helping around the house. Now your posts for a while seem to be saying: *I'VE DONE ALL I COULD TO BE A BETTER HUSBAND. WHY AREN'T THINGS BETTER??*

The answer is: you have been improving the marriage, but not yourself. You are not only a husband. You are a human being--and you are a well-rounded person with many needs that you are probably not meeting because you are only looking at yourself as her husband. You are taking more than 50% of the responsibility for making the marriage work. 

You need to turn to something else: loving YOURSELF. And here what I mean is, not in a selfish way. But in the way that God loves you. As someone WORTHY OF RESPECT. You don't sound like you really see yourself this way. It is time to stop focusing on the marriage and start focusing on how you can regain your self-respect.

Look again at what has happened here. If she was unhappy with the marriage before all this happened (IF)--she had four choices
1. Do nothing
2. Demand counseling.
3. File for divorce.
4. Have an affair.

Notice that she chose _*the most selfish option*_.

Now you've decided to react to her having an affair by being super nice and loving. The logic here is that you weren't nice = she had an affair; so be nice = she will love you again. *IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.* Here is the actual equation:

the marriage wasn't as good as it could be (50% her responsibility) = she had an affair; husband now super attentive = she is not so into him.



Why is this??? Isn't that the oddest thing? Here is why--you are missing a key component to these equations. You already know it, because you're a PARENT, and you see it with children. You just didn't realize it applies 10X more with adults. That is,

treat someone very badly, they act nicer = *lack of respect for that person* = loss of romantic feelings for YOU, her husband


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## scoot162

I was always a nice person, that has not changed. She admitted that I never mistreated her, never really argued with her, was kind to her and treated her nice. She had discussion with me on about 3-4 occasions over the past two years, our spark in our marriage has died. I said it is a stage in our life we are going through and will pick up after our children are older and do not need us as much. We are there now!!! I do not know how to be NOT NICE and what message will that be sending to my girls about their mother and me. The exact opposite applies Im sure as well as they both know what we are going through. I do seem to be stuck in the mud right now. Soccer season is in full gear and both girls are playing on seperate teams. My wife and I do still get along and are communicating. We do not talk about anything of the situation though as I believe we both are afraid of saying something the other doesnt want to hear. We are going to couples counceling, not sure yet if this is good or not. I know in other posts, counceling does not work. I have been focusing on my family since we started one 16 years ago. I do everything for them and my life revolves around them. I do two things for myself, physical fitness (run and lift) and coach my daughters sports. Pretty much gave everything up when I started a family. I schedule all our family vacations and outings and manage my oldest daughters singing career. The singing career takes a considerable amount of my time and is part of the entire ordeal. Thank you so much for responding!!


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## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> We do not talk about anything of the situation though as I believe we both are afraid of saying something the other doesnt want to hear.


There is one thing I can tell you with absolute certainty--what you are describing here is called "rug-sweeping" and it never, ever works.

It pierces my heart to hear you describe your life. You are living for others almost 100% of the time.

You are afraid to be honest with your wife. This is the absolute worst possible time to just be "treading water" because of singing careers and soccer seasons. Before you know it, your children will be grown and gone. But there has to BE a marriage NOW for one to exist after children. It doesn't sit on a shelf and wait for you when you finally decide that you have the time.

Your marriage cannot survive much longer with such a lack of deep connection and honesty. You are setting yourself up to be cheated on again because she's shown you that's her preferred way to handle stress / anxiety / depression / boredom / whatever is going on in her head that you never ask about.


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## scoot162

I am afraid to honest with her. I dont know when the right time to bring anything up and I dont want to speak of what has happened. I focused on changing things in my life that took time away from us and would free up time so we could be together. So when we are together, we talk about our jobs, surroundings or our girls and avoid stressful subjects like the obvioius. If you are telling me I need to bring up the past and focus on this, I will. I know I have trust issues yet and I am sure she has many hidden feelings that are pending as well. I have no idea where we are in our relationship, meaning is she committed to making our marriage work yet or not.


----------



## sandc

Read the book Married Man Sex Life, if you haven't yet. I think it would help you gain perspective one what it is to be a man, and how women react to that.


----------



## scoot162

Thanks for the resource!


----------



## sandc

You're going to find you have to unlearn a lot of things about women and yourself. The book is very Yoda like in that way. It's also very conversational and easy to read.

More info here: Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


----------



## happyman64

scoot162 said:


> I am afraid to honest with her. I dont know when the right time to bring anything up and I dont want to speak of what has happened. I focused on changing things in my life that took time away from us and would free up time so we could be together. So when we are together, we talk about our jobs, surroundings or our girls and avoid stressful subjects like the obvioius. If you are telling me I need to bring up the past and focus on this, I will. I know I have trust issues yet and I am sure she has many hidden feelings that are pending as well. I have no idea where we are in our relationship, meaning is she committed to making our marriage work yet or not.


Scoot
I am a nice guy too! And you know what? Nice guys do finish last.

Do not ome in last. You will learn from where you are in your marriage (limbo) that you can no longer afford o always be nice.

You need to honest with her, more importantly, you need her o be honest with you.

Will it hurt? Probably. But I would take pain any day than living in limbo with someone that I loved not knowing if they love me, wanna be married to me or if they are even a true partner in yor family anymore.

So stop being afraid, accept that there will be pain and have that conversation.

And like Dig says, if the spidery sense in your gut is going off then demand the truth no matter how tough you have to get.

After all, it is your life and family that is at stake.

HM64


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## ArmyofJuan

Understand that most women view "nice guys" as insecure, needy, and co-dependent because most of them are. 

You can still be nice and independent and confident by not being overly emotionally attached and relying on external validation. You have to be in a frame of mind where you know you can just walk away from a bad situation and you know you will be fine. You‘ll make a new life for yourself and you know your W can be replaced because it’s true. The person that can walk away usually never has to.


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## warlock07

You won't tell the OM's fiance. Poor woman!!! She still would have the choice of not marrying a cheater if you would have some integrity.


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## iheartlife

warlock07 said:


> You won't tell the OM's fiance. Poor woman!!! She still would have the choice of not marrying a cheater if you would have some integrity.


I'm thinking now that he works up the courage to discuss the affair with his wife on a regular basis. Apparently even that is asking too much.

I do wonder what the fiance would think about these two still working together. She probably wouldn't be quite as sanguine as the OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

scoot162 said:


> I have done pretty much a complete transformation on my marriage what time allows me. I have stopped going into my work so early in the morning which contributed to my lack of energy and drive in the evening hours. Just by changing this, it allows me to stay up longer in the evening to have alone time with my wife after the girls go to bed. I have picked up the responsibilities in the home by doing more chores to help take some of this off my wife. I make time to spend time with my wife on the weekend whether going out or just spending alone time together without the girls around. I send her texts everyday telling her private, intimate gestures and compliment her daily. All these things are not new to her but I did get away from them due to our busy schedule raising a family. Balance is key and my focus fell on my girls where I failed to balance my relationship with my wife. I admit this and I fixed it. I feel my wife is either having a difficult time forgiving me for letting us get to this point or having a difficult time forgiving herself for the pain she put me and our family through for having the A. I am a fighter, and feel deep down she will love me again, however, i am a stronger man because of this and my girls still are a major focus in my life. I will never really understand all of this and why she chose to do what she did. Our communication with each other degraded over the years, mainly because of our schedules with the children. Since I plan our time away from the girls 95 percent of the time, I failed to balance. Why could she not schedule time away for us if she thought thing between us were unstable? I ask myself that question almost everyday!


From this post I have to believe you have not read Married Man Sex Life yet. This is a major, major mistake on your part.


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## Chaparral

scoot162 said:


> I am afraid to honest with her. I dont know when the right time to bring anything up and I dont want to speak of what has happened. I focused on changing things in my life that took time away from us and would free up time so we could be together. So when we are together, we talk about our jobs, surroundings or our girls and avoid stressful subjects like the obvioius. If you are telling me I need to bring up the past and focus on this, I will. I know I have trust issues yet and I am sure she has many hidden feelings that are pending as well. I have no idea where we are in our relationship, meaning is she committed to making our marriage work yet or not.


This is the voice of doom we have heard here so often when the OP cannot get past his fear of losing his family. It always results in the OP losing his family. You have to accept you may lose in order to have a shot at winning.


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## Chaparral

Get MMSL and run with the MAP plan. You can downlosd it from amazon or order the book. You need to do this years ago.


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## Hope1964

You sound like such a nice guy. I really feel for you. But you're not doing yourself any favors here - what you're doing is harming way more than it's helping.

I really hope you can grow your backbone soon and do what needs to be done.


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## Thor

Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy". Visit thee forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scoot162

I had a good discussion with my wife tonight and after 4 months since the a, she still does not have the in love feeling for me. Her reasoning is that I was disconnected so much she though I was not attracted to her anymore. Despite my efforts and reasoning asking her why she did not seek help or give me an ultimatum if she thought our marriage was so bad, she could not answer. I said she could have done more to make me realize I was doing to much, work, girls activities and lets not forget schedules. We live in a secluded area about an hour drive to shopping, eateries, etc. so to go out somewhere alone preparation for sitters and scheduling needs to be done. I said she could have done more but that is in the past. She told me I can't do anything more and she hates that she doesn't have the same feelings for me anymore. I don't know where this relationship is going, I do know I will always love my wife and do sincerely want her to be happy again.


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## sandc

She has to find happiness. You can't make her happy. As in, you can't force her to be happy. I think you need to start thinking about moving on. Do the 180. You might just be surprised.


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## iheartlife

scoot--if this is what she is saying, you are in last-ditch efforts here. I hope you are able to get to counseling 1x a week--is there any chance of that? And that your counselor has training in infidelity and isn't foolishly blaming her affair on you.

As others have urged you now, read Married Man Sex Life (MMSL) and No More Mr. Nice Guy. As others have said, there's being a nice person, and then there's being a doormat. They really are two separate things. You can still be nice without giving away your self-respect. 

It may be a gross generalization, but many women do not romantically love someone that they don't respect. She betrayed you deeply, and the fact that she has not suffered much if any consequences (except that you bend over backwards to be nicer than ever) is probably a key source of her lack of respect and therefore romantic love for you.

But your biggest issue remains that they work in proximity and you have little insight into the nature of their contact. When one person becomes infatuated with another person, and they are still frequently around that same person (even if all they do is interact for a few minutes a day during lunch or whatever), that is all it takes to perpetuate an obsession. Really, that is all it takes.

*At this point--what do you know about her contact with him, or lack thereof*? Not just 'trusting' that they have no contact. That is what I did with my husband--and many others have done the same--it is a BIG mistake when they've crossed into having an affair. She could have a burner phone that she keeps in the car--they sell them at places like 7-11. Or maybe she has a secret email account, or she messages him via facebook. *How are you verifying that they aren't still in contact outside of the time that they obviously spend in the same vicinity via work*? (Not, sadly, that it matters, if they see each other via work on a regular basis.)


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## scoot162

All good questions, but if I may ask, if it comes down to spying and constantly wondering who she is speaking to, I am beginning to wonder why keep the marriage? I want nothing more to save what we have but if she is unhappy, I am unhappy! I asked her the exact same question if she is in contact with him and she says she keeps to herself and does not see him on a daily bases.


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## sandc

Don't trust what is said.

I say I can fly if I wear a cape. Believe me?


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## scoot162

I hear you and yes I have been lied to and lied to. This is one of my major issues I am dealing with. Not a day goes by that I do not spend time with my wife. I want to believe every word she tells me but a cannot. I thought I was making progress until I had the talk with her tonight. My daughter heard our conversation and is very upset because I spoke of D!


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## sandc

This is not YOUR fault. Your wife purchased all this misery. She's still paying on the installment plan apparently. Don't let her use your children to blackmail you either. If the kids are teenagers they are old enough to understand the ramifications of an affair. If they don't understand why you going through with D explain to them that mom isn't holding up her side of the bargain.


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## WyshIknew

Decorum said:


> From this...
> 
> "All good questions, but if I may ask, if it comes down to spying and constantly wondering who she is speaking to, I am beginning to wonder why keep the marriage?"
> 
> to this...
> "I hear you and yes I have been lied to and lied to. This is one of my major issues I am dealing with."
> 
> Did you understand what was said below?
> 
> "many women do not romantically love someone that they don't respect. She betrayed you deeply, and the fact that she has not suffered much if any consequences (except that you bend over backwards to be nicer than ever) is probably a key source of her lack of respect and therefore romantic love for you."
> 
> 
> "But your biggest issue remains that they work in proximity and you have little insight into the nature of their contact. When one person becomes infatuated with another person, and they are still frequently around that same person (even if all they do is interact for a few minutes a day during lunch or whatever), that is all it takes to perpetuate an obsession. Really, that is all it takes.
> 
> Now this..
> (Wife)...told me I can't do anything more and she hates that she doesn't have the same feelings for me anymore.
> 
> And for the first time in 4 months you are finally sounding a little serious about D.
> "My daughter heard our conversation and is very upset because I spoke of D!"
> 
> So here you are at D anyway, but you missed the initial chance to shock her to her senses, can you see your mistake and the consequences of failing to take action and follow the advice given here.
> 
> At this point you usually come back and say, "Yes but I have been working my butt off showing her I am nice guy, I make pancakes and do chores etc, etc, etc"
> 
> She is still in love with the Om, maybe still seeing him, nothing can happen in your relationship until he is gone. Did you expose him ???
> 
> Your status quo is not working!! Try following the advice you are getting here.
> 
> You had to do the heavy lifting up front, expose, confront, file, verify NC, so she could realize what she was going to lose, and find motivation there to do the heavy lifting in R, but you say that you dont want to keep the marriage if thats what it takes, You cannot even tell if the marriage can be saved until all that is done!
> 
> Spying isnt forever! Transparency in marriage is.
> 
> So here you are with lackluster results.
> 
> I still think you can pull it off. If you move quickly, at her age and status, losing her marriage will be a big loss.
> 
> Now that you are getting serious she my start showing more concern/affection/attention, DO NOT THINK, "YES FINALLY", she is only responding to you strength (keep it up), if she cries a few tears and you relent its back down the toilet, PLEASE keep showing that stregth and followthrough!!!!
> 
> If she were on her hands and knees crying uncontrollably, and begging you to take her back and agreeing to all your conditions, "THAT WOULD ONLY BR A GOOD START!"
> 
> Please consider it.
> 
> I apologise to those wo have gone the distance here with op, I read these for my own benifit and I dont want to just hit and run but sometimes you just have to say somthing.


:iagree:

Just do it Scoot, follow the advice you have been given. All I hear from you is but but but but but but. Your delaying and butting may have left it too late but (ha ha) it is probably your only chance.

Of course you could wait and see if she gets fed up with the affair nonsense, decides to forgive you for pushing her away and you can buy her lots of presents to help her forgive you.

What a victory.


----------



## warlock07

scoot162 said:


> I had a good discussion with my wife tonight and after 4 months since the a, she still does not have the in love feeling for me. Her reasoning is that I was disconnected so much she though I was not attracted to her anymore. Despite my efforts and reasoning asking her why she did not seek help or give me an ultimatum if she thought our marriage was so bad, she could not answer. I said she could have done more to make me realize I was doing to much, work, girls activities and lets not forget schedules. We live in a secluded area about an hour drive to shopping, eateries, etc. so to go out somewhere alone preparation for sitters and scheduling needs to be done. I said she could have done more but that is in the past. She told me I can't do anything more and she hates that she doesn't have the same feelings for me anymore. I don't know where this relationship is going, I do know I will always love my wife and do sincerely want her to be happy again.


The affair is still going on for f*ck sake. Those words are straight from a person in an affair. The affair just went underground. I would bet a couple of grand if I could. 

Stop being a wimp!! Stand up for yourself. Your denial is your biggest enemy. Good luck!!


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## warlock07

scoot162 said:


> All good questions, but if I may ask, if it comes down to spying and constantly wondering who she is speaking to, I am beginning to wonder why keep the marriage? I want nothing more to save what we have but if she is unhappy, I am unhappy! I asked her the exact same question if she is in contact with him and she says she keeps to herself and does not see him on a daily bases.


No, it is because you and her can make a better decision for the long term when she is not actively participating in an affair. The affair has to end first. If she still chooses to divorce after the fact, then so be it. But you cannot trust a person in an affair to make honest rational decisions. Have you read some of the other threads here ?


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## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> All good questions, but if I may ask, if it comes down to spying and constantly wondering who she is speaking to, I am beginning to wonder why keep the marriage? I want nothing more to save what we have but if she is unhappy, I am unhappy! I asked her the exact same question if she is in contact with him and she says she keeps to herself and does not see him on a daily bases.





scoot162 said:


> I hear you and yes I have been lied to and lied to. This is one of my major issues I am dealing with. Not a day goes by that I do not spend time with my wife. I want to believe every word she tells me but a cannot. I thought I was making progress until I had the talk with her tonight. My daughter heard our conversation and is very upset because I spoke of D!


scoot--I want to give you some hope, but you can see for yourself what a dire situation you are in.

All I can share is my own story. I am happily reconciled with my husband. We found a fabulous counselor trained in infidelity. He asked the hard questions of my husband that helped turn him around and see where HE had to do the work to heal the marriage. Like you, I wasn't as attentive (actually, I was doing various things that actively hurt the marriage because of my own unhappiness). Like you, I worked to repair the marriage. I worked for YEARS to do that, in fact. Like you, things didn't seem to get better. We weren't connecting on a deeper level and I sensed that he was not in love with me. Like you, I wouldn't ask that hard question because I knew the answer.

What I found out was that the affair had never ended. They were former co-workers who stayed in touch via email, texting, and cell phone calls. If I had put a voice-activated recorder (VAR) under his car seat for one week--heck, probably for a day--I would have found out in an instant that he was LYING about "no contact." But I didn't understand that affairs are addictive and I didn't understand that cheaters lie constantly.

If you aren't doing these two things:
--Reading Married Man Sex Life (to become attractive to women in general--I would not do it to specifically attract your wife because you are too focused on her right now and that is part of her lack of attraction to you)

--Hard-core verifying no contact

there is NO POINT in going to marriage counseling or being "nice."

You are watching your marriage die before your eyes. You first posted over a month ago and not one single thing has changed. As far as we can tell, you haven't done one single thing that's been recommended in your thread, except to ask a liar if she's still lying. And you wonder why things are getting worse...


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## Chaparral

Wile you are checking to see if she is still in the affair read this. downlaod if you can and stat reding now.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...sex+life&sprefix=married+Man+Sex+Life,aps,218

Here is an email I got from bff

Originally Posted by bff 
Hey brother,

I just wanted to thank you again for being so persistent in recommending the Married Man Sex Life Primer to me! I *love* this book! I'm only 20% of the way through, but already I feel like I have so much more of an understanding about how/why relationships work and/or don't work. I can see so many things that I did wrong in my previous relationships, up to and including my marriage. I can absolutely see why she wandered... not that I'm going to take the blame for her making the decision to cheat, but still. I already have someone (an ex co-worker) that I've always had a crush on. I'm sort of in the "friend zone" with her right now, and I can see how I would totally go all Beta on her and NEVER get out of that zone. This is like a manual for how to be a guy!!!!!

Anyway, thank you, thank you!

BFF


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## scoot162

Thank you very much for the recommendation! I ordered the book!


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## arbitrator

warlock07 said:


> You won't tell the OM's fiance. Poor woman!!! She still would have the choice of not marrying a cheater if you would have some integrity.


Scoot: I can't help but totally agree with those who have so richly intoned that half of the problems in your marriage are yours. Undeniably, they are! But you absolutely have no ownership in that covert choice of hers to ultimately engage in the act of cheating.

That being said, the OM may have personally expressed some contrition on his part for his role in the PA, but truth be known, he, in all probability, hasn't uttered a single word to his fiance' about that affair.

It is up to you to inform that lady, so that she can be brought up to speed on this unfortunate occurance, and can make viable decisions about the future of her relationship with him.

Please do not deny her that opportunity by your act of "sweeping it under the rug." After all, you were fortunate in that you found about the existence of her affair with the OM~ and the hard question for you now is that "doesn't the OM's fiance' have the very same right as you to have that very same knowledge?"


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## Kallan Pavithran

OMs fiance need the to know the truth. How will you react if she knows it for a long and didnt told you the truth. 

As her man you are also hiding truth from her. Its cruel and inhuman.


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## happyman64

And Scoot stop thinking that you working, spending time with your daughters and their activities are bad things that caused your wife to feel that you no longer wanted her or felt she was attractive.

That is totally horse sh!t!

What woman that is a really good mother/parent would not want their Dad involved in their activities.

Your wife is selfish. She chose to cheat. He'll, she wanted to cheat. She made a conscious decision/choice to cheat. She didn't just trip at work one day and fall on his Schlong......

And you know she still has no feelings or attraction for you? Because she is still aging an Affair. She still gets her fill of OM.

So for Gods sake call the OM fiancée, give her the evidence. Exposé the Affair to everyone. 

So what is stopping you??? Your D already knows you guys are talking D now.

Have her served at work. Contact the OM' fiancée and let her know you have filed for D because your wife is banging her future husband.

Let her parents know why you have filed.

Do something! Because being nice all these weeks has gotten you nowhere, and your wife is still satisfied with her infidelity.
Time to change your game plan my friend because your Plan A is ineffective.

HM64


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## jnj express

Hey Scoot---I suggested a month ago, that your wife put in for a transfer---did you push that at her

You have no chance---you are throwing out all these wonderful things that your family is doing, ---well, because you have done NOTHING, about this situation, it is all meaningless

You are gonna look at this and say, I have done nothing, what can this guy mean----I WILL TELL YOU WHAT I MEAN

She spends more time each day at school with him, than YOU DO WITH HER

They are probably in the teachers room, before school, shooting the breeze, or making small talk, or romancing-----they are together at morning break, if they wanna be---they are together at lunch, doing whatever they want, if they share the same period off, they are together then----they might get duty at the same time, they are together then---A SCHOOL FACULTY IS A VERY TIGHT KNIT LITTLE GROUP

I know teachers who locked the teachers work room door, or went in the bookroom, or went in the restroom, and had sex, on their off periods

You have no chance---I don't care what you and your wife say to each other, and what you THINK is going on----she is with him, as much each day, as she is with you

She is still cool toward you, about intimacy, and being together---ask yourself why---she doesn't need you, she has him---FIVE DAYS A WEEK

You could have forced her to transfer schools, and don't tell me it can't be done, unless she is at the bottom of the seniority list, her demands, could have been met

Well guess what Scoot----school has started, and I promise you, they are doing thier very own thing, each and every day

Good luck to you and your family's future.


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## WyshIknew

iheartlife said:


> You are watching your marriage die before your eyes. You first posted over a month ago and not one single thing has changed. As far as we can tell, you haven't done one single thing that's been recommended in your thread, except to ask a liar if she's still lying. And you wonder why things are getting worse...


Please listen Scoot!

I really feel for you and your situation, I was very much the same as you 20 years ago, I wish I had had things like MMSL and NMMNG and TAM at that time.
I did everything wrong, I cried (walked into work said "hello" to the girl on reception and burst into tears. Locked myself in the toilets calmed myself down went back to see her, said "sorry about that" and promptly burst into tears again).

That crying thing, it makes you feel so low. When you've been 'the man' all your adult life and suddenly the tears start flooding out, it rips your heart and soul out. It makes you feel so emasculated, and the one person who should have your back and console you, is like a block of ice in their own selfish little world. I have never felt as low before or since.

I pleaded, I begged, I reasoned, I wrote wussy letters, I bought her stuff, I promised to work a bit less, I was on anti depressants. I went around to see the OM and told him what I would do to him if he touched my wife, not a good move I know but I wasn't thinking straight.

None of it worked and none of what you are doing seems to be working much either.

What did work?

I took control of my life, lost weight, exercised, started doing my own thing, I kept contact to only kids and necessary discussions. Within a month or two I started getting phone calls asking if I wanted to pop around for a coffee and a chat (pre text and email era). Never went round same night, always told her I was busy that night but perhaps later in week. Eventually reconciled and been happy since. Now planning our 25th wedding anniversary.

Scoot, many of the posters on here have been through what you are going through, they probably made many of the mistakes you have made which is why they get so disappointed when you don't take the advice given.

And I can almost guarantee that if you stick around on the forum in a few months time you will be typing furiously on your keyboard advising some other poor, confused and heartbroken person to 'just do it'

Please listen to the advice you are getting, at least expose the affair to the OM fiance, she deserves to know.


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## sandc

We can point you to any number of threads that show that you can't nice your way out of this situation. The only thing that works no matter what is to open a can of bad-a$$. 

Tell everyone. She will hate you. So what?


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## scoot162

I found out about the affair before they made it to intercourse, does this change anything in the steps I am/should be taking? I know everyone's tolerance level may be different when it comes to reacting to this. I however, feel the first flirt, inappropriate text, or kiss she exchanged with him was cheating.


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## WyshIknew

scoot162 said:


> I found out about the affair before they made it to intercourse.


Are you one hundred per cent sure?

This forum is full of people who were convinced there was no PA only to find later they were at it like rabbits.

Keep your 'radar' on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scoot162

Yes I am 100 percent sure!


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## bigtone128

Won't matter Scoot - the behavioural pattern has been set up (and probably has been for a while) I thought the same thing with my spouse - as long there was nothing physical I could deal with it - not thinking of her and her behavioural pattern - she was oh so sorry - treated me like a king - unbeknownst to me she was also treating others like a king as well......3 years later she left me for a PA - all taking her back did was enabled her to get better at it. Once a woman checks out - they are out. I would have been better off to face the music 3 years ago........


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## kenmoore14217

She crossed the line Scoot22, that's all that's important!! What happens after that line is crossed is meaningless. What is important is she crossed the line. So, kiss, inappropriate emails, fingering, petting, penetration....... does not matter, THE LINE WAS CROSSED, PERIOD!!


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## scoot162

Thanks for clarifying. I feel the same. It is very disappointing to know this has happened after all we have been through and grown as a couple.


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## arbitrator

kenmoore14217 said:


> She crossed the line Scoot22, that's all that's important!! What happens after that line is crossed is meaningless. What is important is she crossed the line. So, kiss, inappropriate emails, fingering, petting, penetration....... does not matter, THE LINE WAS CROSSED, PERIOD!!


I can't help but agree! In my own particular case, I wasn't even in denial~ truth be known, I never even envisioned that anything was remotely wrong. Not until that fateful day that she demanded a "trial separation!" And then, I only thought it was just her raging hormones!

Well, I was right about one thing: it was definitely her raging hormones alright~ but they were raging for both of her out-of-town boyfriends.

Only after the separation and her initial filing for divorce, did I take some advise and wise up and see the transcripts richly laid out in her cell phone and texting logs. I was a sap who richly believed that things would change~ they did OK, but not for the better!

Please don't follow the path I took that would lead to prolonged agony and eventual heartbreak for you. Please rest assured that an affair is greatly like an iceberg~ what evidence you see or find(that which is visible above the surface of the water) fastly pales in comparison to what is, or has actually clandestinely gone on between the affair partners(the biggest part of that iceberg that is well hidden beneath the surface of the water.)

Please wise up, Scoot, because the percentages of your WW and the OM playing you for a fool are beyond astronomical.

I feel for you, and wish you well on this most unwanted journey that you're now finding yourself engaged in!


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## scoot162

We live in a small community and secrets are far and few if you understand what I am saying. Since our big discussion on divorce, she has been committed to me and our family. She is where she says she is and is engaged without family. We had a talk last night and she says that I am doing everything right but she wants that deep in love feeling back she once had for me. It is only 3 months since the A and I am wondering if she is wanting something too soon. I told her the fog has not lifted for her and that she needs to focus on al the positives in our life and what we have built together our past25 years together. Is it wrong for her to feel this way? Will she snap out of this state she is in and will she get the feelings back for me? I know I have failed her in the past with lack of alone time for the two of us but I have fixed that now. We have too much together to throw everything away.


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## Wanting1

Is she completely NC with OM? I don't mean in the affair, but does she see him while going about her daily life. Any continued contact, even of the accidental type, can keep her from completely closing her emotional conduit to him.


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## scoot162

They work in the same building different floors but may see him on occasion. Spoke to her and him and they both are avoiding any contact.


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## Shaggy

Every time they see each other, get a text or message from each other, their brains a getting a shot of affair drugs, and that contributes to your wife not healing.

It isn't enough for her to stop having sex with him, or sitting down for a chat, what she must do is breakup with him, to really return to the marriage, have no contact at all, and to focus on keeping you from leaving.


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## Acabado

> she wants that deep in love feeling back she once had for me.


Withdrawal. She's still craving the affair high. She's still dydreaming about it. It takes a time to switch the focus back to you after she spent of her emotional energy elsewere.
The work situation doesn't help. Even if she manages to stop feeding the fantasy, just being concious of the fact she has to ignore/avoid OM there consume energy.
She has to go mental NC. To the point OM is completely irrelevant, waste no head space at all.

Be sure to implement a plan to reconnect, couples time. Set a minimum of hours of quality time alone every week. Watching TV together doesn't count. Nurture the love you have.
marriagebuilders has good material to rebuild. There's tons of sources.


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## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> We live in a small community and secrets are far and few if you understand what I am saying. Since our big discussion on divorce, she has been committed to me and our family. She is where she says she is and is engaged without family. *We had a talk last night and she says that I am doing everything right but she wants that deep in love feeling back she once had for me*. It is only 3 months since the A and I am wondering if she is wanting something too soon. I told her the fog has not lifted for her and that she needs to focus on al the positives in our life and what we have built together our past25 years together. Is it wrong for her to feel this way? Will she snap out of this state she is in and will she get the feelings back for me? I know I have failed her in the past with lack of alone time for the two of us but I have fixed that now. We have too much together to throw everything away.


If she really wants it, she will have to work for it.

Love is a decision. Many, many people have this distorted idea that love is a feeling and that if romantic love goes away, it's permanently gone. Part of this is fed by the nonsense that we are all "meant to be" with "the one." When infatuation with someone outside the marrige rears its ugly head, many people (wrsteele1's wife comes to mind) are seduced into thinking that this is a signal from the universe to abandon your marriage and go off into the sunset with your Romeo/Juliet. Many, many people who act on this come down with a rather nasty bump to discover that Romeo still doesn't take out the trash and leaves his dirty underwear for you to pick up.

The best books I know for reawakening romantic love that are out there are Dr. Harley's His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters. Acabado mentioned the marriagebuilders site, that website is created by the Harley father / son / family. 

Go to marriagebuilders and download the rather lengthy his needs / her needs questionnaire and the love busters questionnaire. If your wife works hard at filling them out in their entirety, you will have a very good indicator about how serious she is about reawakening her romantic love for you. They are just long enough that someone who's insincere will not be bothered.

--------------------------

On a separate note--can you tell us more about your converation with the OM? 
Can you remember exactly what you said to him, and what he said to you? 
Are you still fearful of telling his now-wife about his betrayal of her?


----------



## Acabado

Also read the Five love languages, there's an online questionaire too.


----------



## iheartlife

Acabado said:


> Be sure to implement a plan to reconnect, couples time. Set a minimum of hours of quality time alone every week. Watching TV together doesn't count. Nurture the love you have.


And, this can't be said often enough.

You have told us about a bajillion times that the two of you live for your children. Your teenager has a music career, apparently.

You cannot have a strong romantic relationship if you only spend a few hours of quality time together each week. When the marriage is as strained as yours is, the key is to be spending AT LEAST 20 hours a week _alone_ doing things together / talking without outside entertainment.

Where are you going to find that time?

My husband and I now spend at least 1.5 to 2 hours every night while the children are asleep. Then we try to have lunch together at least once a week (another 1.5 hours) and every 2 weeks or so we try to have a date night (another 4 or 5 hours). We make a point of eating a meal whenever we get a babysitter for some other purpose (like back to school night) rather than rushing home.


Is there a particular reason why you couldn't eat lunch, at the very least, with your wife almost every weekday?


Is there a particular reason why you can't text or email your wife a sweet note about how happy you are to be with her, or how excited you are to see her later, at least 2x a day?


How often are you having sex? Sex releases bonding hormones that can be quite powerful. Just once a week does the trick for pure biological purposes.


----------



## Acabado

And make yourself atractive. Take care of your apareance.
Stop being just her husband, be her boyfriend. Including not being so predictable!
Find a balance between being the old, reliable husband and father and a "new you". Teach her how old dogs can learn new tricks by learning them. Susprise her. Get yourself a litle out of the comfort zone so she sees you a few inches away from the "friend" zone.
Spice bed time.
----
----


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## iheartlife

Acabado said:


> And make yourself atractive. Take care of your apareance.
> Stop being just her husband, be her boyfriend. Including not being so predictable!
> Find a balance between being the old, reliable husband and father and a "new you". Teach her how old dogs can learn new tricks by learning them. Susprise her. Get yourself a litle out of the comfort zone so she sees you a few inches away from the "friend" zone.
> Spice bed time.
> ----
> ----


Speaking of which, scoot....did you ever read Married Man Sex Life? Did you ever read No More Mr. Nice Guy?


(Anyone else feel like this thread is the most consistent of all broken records, with every update virtually indistinguable from the last, except that some time went by?)


----------



## Thor

iheartlife said:


> Go to marriagebuilders and download the rather lengthy his needs / her needs questionnaire and the love busters questionnaire. If your wife works hard at filling them out in their entirety, you will have a very good indicator about how serious she is about reawakening her romantic love for you. They are just long enough that someone who's insincere will not be bothered.


Thanks, that's going to be a help for me, too.


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## iheartlife

Thor said:


> Thanks, that's going to be a help for me, too.


Thanks for saying that.

It did occur to me for the first time when I typed that post: this would be a rather simple test for a lot of cheating spouses that we could recommend trying. Literally, can they stomach filling out that multi-page form and reading their loyal spouse's version and repeat it back so there's no doubt they know what's in it.

Obviously not 100% foolproof--but I bet you that a LOT of cake-eaters would balk when they saw how long it was and you'd have to tackle them and hold their hands on the pencil to get them to do it. It's a great exercise anyhow and a concrete, measurable action that helps prove they want to put their best effort in to repair the marriage.


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## scoot162

Thank you all for your fine words of wisdom and advice. We have been improving and yes we have been spending quality time alone. We spend about 1-1.5 hours in the morning before work just talking and cuddling. At night it is a bit harder but we do spend about 1.5 -3 hours sometimes more alone so we can communicate and talk. Lunchtime is out since we are too far away at our jobs to meet. Our intimacy has increased since I have moved focus on us instead of everything else going on around, raising a family and everything. Right now i say we average about 2-3 times per week but more on the weekends when we have more alone time. Since this seemed to be the reason for the problem in my wife's eyes, I have focused on managing my time better and have stopped doing non productive tasks and actually have taken a different look at life and do not let things bother me as much. I was a mess inside and indefinitely decreased my sex drive. I have always kept myself very trim and strong. I work out on a daily basis and am very fit. I am continuing to do this since this is my main stress reliever for me, however after a long day at work and working out, daily family obligations when my head hit the pillow, I was asleep!


----------



## the guy

For what its worth, I think sex is the glue, I think once you start rocking her world with the big "O" and giving her that chemical that semin has that helps with the physialogy or what ever, it will help your case.

Call me crazy but sex seem to help everything. So do what it takes to get it going.


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## Acabado

Another "sex believer", if that word exists. Spice it.

A shared activity, only for you and her, something you both can be passionate for.


----------



## loveisforever

scoot162 said:


> I had a good discussion with my wife tonight and after 4 months since the a, she still does not have the in love feeling for me. Her reasoning is that I was disconnected so much she though I was not attracted to her anymore. Despite my efforts and reasoning asking her why she did not seek help or give me an ultimatum if she thought our marriage was so bad, she could not answer. I said she could have done more to make me realize I was doing to much, work, girls activities and lets not forget schedules. We live in a secluded area about an hour drive to shopping, eateries, etc. so to go out somewhere alone preparation for sitters and scheduling needs to be done. I said she could have done more but that is in the past. She told me I can't do anything more and she hates that she doesn't have the same feelings for me anymore. I don't know where this relationship is going, I do know I will always love my wife and do sincerely want her to be happy again.


Yes. Your wife is leaving you.

You are very stubborn, not taking actions after so much advice given here. You are too selfish to do the right thing. You are cheap and clinging to your wife, even when she spit you on your face. Your wife know she can love om like a rabbit just in front of your eyes. What is you good for? 

Every girl will treat you like this. It is your problem to cling to be "nice", because you have nothing to offer and dare not to say no!


----------



## JCD

A Cautionary Tale in One Act

Someone As Patient: Doc, my arm isn't responding when I try to move it. Is something wrong?

Dr: Well, that festering wound in your arm isn't helping. What you need is to take a strong course of antibiotics to clear up the infection, get it out of your system and then we can see about the deeper underlying nervous issues.

SAP: Thanks Doc. You're swell!

Three days later

Dr: What's that smell?

SAP: Um...it's the arm. It doesn't seem to have gotten any better.

Dr: Did you take the antibiotics?

SAP: I did something BETTER. Your colon stores toxins and since the entire body is connected, I figure whole grain muffins will clear our enough bad stuff that eventually, the infection will get flushed out too.

Dr; That isn't how it works. You need to GET RID OF THE INFECTION. Take the antibiotics.

SAP: Thanks Doc. Great advice.

Three days later

Dr: OMG what is wrong with your arm?

SAP: Um...I haven't exactly refined my muffin dosage. I originally thought three times a day would do it, but that isn't working. So I cut out all other foods and am on an all muffin diet.

Dr: And did you take the antibiotics?

SAP: I picked them up, just like you said.

Dr. Did you TAKE them?

SAP: Um...no.

Dr: Why not?

SAP: mumbles unintelligably

Three days later

Dr: From the way you are dripping on my carpet, I assume you STILL haven't taken the antibiotics.

SAP: DOC! That's hurtful! Of course I took one.

Doc: ONE?

SAP: Yes. And the throbbing stopped for a while and it didn't hurt as much, so I'm REALLY PLEASED with the results. Thank you. But um...

Dr: It's getting worse again, yes?

SAP: Um...yeah. But I figure a new course of treatment is what I need.

Dr: Amputation? Cause that is where this is going.

SAP: Why would I cut my arm off? That's just silly! No. MULTIGRAIN!

Dr weeps disconsoantly.


----------



## Thinkitthrough

I really hate analogy, ihey are so hard to figure out.


----------



## badbane

scoot162 said:


> We live in a small community and secrets are far and few if you understand what I am saying. Since our big discussion on divorce, she has been committed to me and our family. She is where she says she is and is engaged without family. We had a talk last night and she says that I am doing everything right but she wants that deep in love feeling back she once had for me. It is only 3 months since the A and I am wondering if she is wanting something too soon. I told her the fog has not lifted for her and that she needs to focus on al the positives in our life and what we have built together our past25 years together. Is it wrong for her to feel this way? Will she snap out of this state she is in and will she get the feelings back for me? I know I have failed her in the past with lack of alone time for the two of us but I have fixed that now. We have too much together to throw everything away.


DO THE 180 DO THE 180. Stop treating this like your wife is feeling out of love because the relationship isn't right. 
THis is textbook history rewriting. The reason she says you didn't really do anything wrong is because you didn't she developed feelings for another man. And instead of you saying okay well if you feel that way get out. You ,in essence are trying to sweet talk and addict out of taking her drug. Which is sex with the OM. Have you verified she isn't talking to the OM. I guess you can just take her word for it you know she is a stand up Gal.

WE can't help you. You have to do the hard work. The advice on here comes from experience in busting up Affairs, and what is takes to have a successful Reconciliation. You are doing none of those things. You are Sweeping everything under the rug rather than trying to save and fix your marriage. She is a fault for cheating but right now you aren't even trying any more. If you don't want to try anymore then D and get it over with.


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## scoot162

We have been spending countless hours together. Pretty much we are together as much as possible other than when I am coaching and she is sitting in the stands watching. I am extremely confident that there is nothing going on with OM. We have been communicating more effectively and have been making time for just the two of us. It is difficult but we both want this marriage to regain its momentum as it was before. She tells me she loves me more each day and I do the same. I am taking advice from everyone on this thread and using it to fit my situation the best I can. It is not as easy to just say get out or else when there are two girls that need their mom and dad together in the next room. It is very difficult yes and I am a stronger man because of it.


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## iheartlife

iheartlife said:


> The best books I know for reawakening romantic love that are out there are Dr. Harley's His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters. Acabado mentioned the marriagebuilders site, that website is created by the Harley father / son / family.
> 
> Go to marriagebuilders and download the rather lengthy his needs / her needs questionnaire and the love busters questionnaire. If your wife works hard at filling them out in their entirety, you will have a very good indicator about how serious she is about reawakening her romantic love for you. They are just long enough that someone who's insincere will not be bothered.


Very glad to hear you making each other a priority timewise.

So--did she fill out the marriagebuilders questionnaires?


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## scoot162

I have printed it out but she has not completely filled it out yet. Question, since she has been in a selfish state, will this have a negative affect on the outcome of the questions?


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## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> I have printed it out but she has not completely filled it out yet. Question, since she has been in a selfish state, will this have a negative affect on the outcome of the questions?


It could. And people's "needs" change over time. You will need to be the judge of whether or not her expectations are reasonable.

For example, her rating "financial support" ultra high while also rating "family commitment" and "recreational companionship" ultra high would present a challenge for almost anyone. It's just a fact that most people aren't independently wealthy enough to essentially retire early and spend all their time with their spouse ministering to them. 

But, no matter what they write down, the information is useful. At one end, you just might be surprised that there are small things you can do that can make a big difference, and you didn't know about them before the quetionnaire. On the other end, you may realize that you married someone who has unreasonable expectations, a sense of entitlement, and who puts themselves first above you. They love having _their_ needs met, but turning around and doing the same for you--not so much.

There is always the possibility that she was always very selfish in some way or another, you just didn't realize quite how selfish she was.


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## tom67

scoot162 said:


> I have printed it out but she has not completely filled it out yet. Question, since she has been in a selfish state, will this have a negative affect on the outcome of the questions?


Did you ever expose to the fiance yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

tom67 said:


> Did you ever expose to the fiance yet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To put it another way--if his wife dumped him over this and your wife dumped you as a consequence, that says nothing about you and everything about _her_.


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## scoot162

Thank you for your advice. This is a stuggle, but is improving daily.


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## scoot162

Still improving but cautious. Our intimacy picked up and am feeling more connected with her. She seems more engaged with us and appears to be getting back to who she once was as a wife and mother. She does continue to talk, dress and act at times younger then her years. This infuriates my oldest daughter and many times involves into conflict. My oldest and her mother do not see eye to eye and I believe she blames her mom for everything that has happened. I tried to talk to her about her mom but she said she just makes her mad. She feels like she is in competition with her the way she dresses young and talks and stuff. I realize teenage years are some of the hardest but to deal with all this going on together, gets overwhelming at times. Still feeling suspicious with anything that she says or does. It is getting better but still can't let these feelings go. THe other day I ased if she wanted to go to lunch together with our daughters, she said she just wanted to stay home. Ok no problem but not an hour later she gets a text from her 26 year old girl friend about going to lunch and she asked me if I cared if she went. I said yes I care, after she said she wanted to stay home. I sometimes feel she puts herself before any of us, I never felt this way before the a or the mlc that she denies being in. I guess this is part of me taking everything for granted and not recognizing things and changes with her. I want to save my marriage and feel things are improving daily. Some days are better than others but make the best of each and everyday!


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## happyman64

scoot162 said:


> Still improving but cautious. Our intimacy picked up and am feeling more connected with her. She seems more engaged with us and appears to be getting back to who she once was as a wife and mother. She does continue to talk, dress and act at times younger then her years. This infuriates my oldest daughter and many times involves into conflict. My oldest and her mother do not see eye to eye and I believe she blames her mom for everything that has happened. I tried to talk to her about her mom but she said she just makes her mad. She feels like she is in competition with her the way she dresses young and talks and stuff. I realize teenage years are some of the hardest but to deal with all this going on together, gets overwhelming at times. Still feeling suspicious with anything that she says or does. It is getting better but still can't let these feelings go. THe other day I ased if she wanted to go to lunch together with our daughters, she said she just wanted to stay home. Ok no problem but not an hour later she gets a text from her 26 year old girl friend about going to lunch and she asked me if I cared if she went. I said yes I care, after she said she wanted to stay home. I sometimes feel she puts herself before any of us, I never felt this way before the a or the mlc that she denies being in. I guess this is part of me taking everything for granted and not recognizing things and changes with her. I want to save my marriage and feel things are improving daily. Some days are better than others but make the best of each and everyday!


Scoot

You should proceed cautiously. Good call on the lunch date.

When your wife gets selfish like that you have o call her out on it.

Maybe you should have one o lunch with her Gf while she had lunch with the kids???

Shake her up my man and sTay on top of her.....
:lol:


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## scoot162

I will keep on things. One thing that has changed in me is I an more vocal now days. I use to just go with the flow and not rock the boat. Living with 3 females you don't have too much say. I have been voicing my opinion more and taking charge. She may not always like this but these are the cards she delt. I am a very understanding person and normally give a person second chances or benefit of the doubt. This situation however has changed me forever and now find myself doubting and questioning everything. I hope I can continue to heal and get back to my old self but realize it is going to take a considerable amount of time. I don't believe my wife has any idea how much this has affected me mentally and physically. I believe she still feels like the victim in all of this. She has however recently admitted she was wrong I thinking I didn't still love her. This was one of her reasoning for the a.


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## Summer4744

Scoot with all due respect that wasn't one of the reasons for the affair. That is just something women say to make themselves feel better while they are having an A. Shifting blame and making it about you is probably means she still hasn't come to terms with what she has done yet.


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## JCD

You still seem needy. You are still giving HER excuses for the affair instead of letting her make them herself. You are accepting her surly ill treatment.

She is still uncertain enough about her future that she is still with you. There is probably enough sympathy for you and love for the kids that she's 'conflicted'. 

She is making 'gestures'. Maybe she's faking it until she makes it. But from what you've written, no remorse. 

I've apologized to my wife for a VERY VERY VANILLA EA at least 3 times a month and make sure she has whatever she needs to get over this. I will answer the questions until she stops asking.

I also felt disconnected to the wife, but I made sure I got in touch with her every day I could.

Is that what you are getting? If not, why not?


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## tom67

JCD said:


> You still seem needy. You are still giving HER excuses for the affair instead of letting her make them herself. You are accepting her surly ill treatment.
> 
> She is still uncertain enough about her future that she is still with you. There is probably enough sympathy for you and love for the kids that she's 'conflicted'.
> 
> She is making 'gestures'. Maybe she's faking it until she makes it. But from what you've written, no remorse.
> 
> I've apologized to my wife for a VERY VERY VANILLA EA at least 3 times a month and make sure she has whatever she needs to get over this. I will answer the questions until she stops asking.
> 
> I also felt disconnected to the wife, but I made sure I got in touch with her every day I could.
> 
> Is that what you are getting? If not, why not?


If he hasn't listened by now well......


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## Acabado

Please, spare some time each week to hang out with male friends.
Three teenager daughters and a wife who aparently has also regressed to her teens are too much to bear all week.
Seek companionship of those who do it standing.


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## scoot162

jCD - I am not getting sorry's or regret or remorse. She does seem affectionate but now you have me wondering after what you wrote. I don't even know what I should be looking for. I would like apology's or for her to tell me she loves me first. We have a long history together and have been a couple for 25 years. I have always been the providor and was always the one to take the first step with things. When most of my attention shifted to my children I feel she felt left out and neglected herself. I failed to balance our marriage and I have corrected that in full. She however seems to be stuck.


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## Will_Kane

Hey scoot, you seem like you stick mainly to your own thread, you should try taking a look at some of the other threads on here.

Take a look at this one and tell me what you think: 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/59635-please-give-me-your-advice-4.html

Especially the posts by onthefence210:

_You seem to be every cheats perfect H...not good for you. With that said and *having been in your wife's shoes as a FWS, I'm only going to suggest what I wish my H would have done in our situation*...separate onthefence210 from his wife. Meaning...understanding that I was living two separate lives and that I am responsible for that decision. That he has zero control over my actions and that he did not make me choose any of this. I did it all by myself. *Then the next thing I wished he would of done is knocked me into my own reality by giving me the choice...stay in the M (that's where the rules of R come into discussion, laid out as if I were some 5 yr old and given the consequences) or pack my **** and get out (at that point he should start 180 and divorce proceedings). And stick to whatever it is that he is offering and holding me responsible for my choice. *
The reason I say separate the person from the wife is because it's sooo hard to hold someone you love accountable for their bad choices when it's going to impact your life even more so negatively then if you look at the person and know there is no way in hell that you'd let some other person rob you of your security, stability, esteem, worth. It's a difficult thing to do but helps to put your own feelings into perspective. You get to own the choices you make from here on out, whether you give her a second chance as it seems you are hoping for or if you provide the boxes for her to pack her ****, provide the classified ads for apartments, and even the name of your lawyer all while you sit back with a glass of wine and watch her like you would a movie. 

*WW's need harsh reality in most cases*. And when they get it...they can only blame themselves for their decisions. And as I said before...your wife cheated but you can only blame yourself for how you handle things from here on out. Stop focussing on her and take care of yourself. And if she needs time to think, let her but not in your house. She can do that where reality is present at all times. But I'd highly suggest if she needs that time...then start the D process. Don't let her play this out with her AP until its no longer fun, because she will, and then pick you. I hope this helps. Best of luck to you._


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## Will_Kane

Here's your first post from 8/15/2012:

_I have been married for 20 years with the love of my life. We have 2 wonderful teenage daughters who both are a huge part of our lives. I recently discovered my wife had an affair and crushed me like nothing else has in the past. It started out for her as friends and turned into texting, meeting and physical contact. My wife told me in the past we were starting to draw apart due to much of my involvement with our daughters activities and my commitment to them as well as my job. I told her it is the stage in our lives were they need us the most and soon we will have more time to spend together as they grow more independent. I continued showing my love to my wife by telling her I loved her, special gifts but due to my schedule and lack of alone time together our sex life and alone time took a turn for the worse. *I am very confused now because she doesn't seem to take ownership of the affair and seems distant with our girls. I am trying to trust her again but thoughts swirl in my mind.* We spent approximately 10 years together prior to having our children and at the time, it was all about us. I was never a father before so I thought I was doing the right thing. I cant imagine someone throwing everything away. I love her so much and cant understand how she could have done this to me. My focus was always on my family and nothing else. If I wasnt at work I was with my family!!!!Can someone help me understand what my wife is going through or has anyone else been through similar situation? 

I believe the affair has stopped. I confronted the man and he gave me his sincere apology for the entire incident. *She told me she doesnt love me like she once did and that she is not "in love with me anymore"*. Fog is a good way of describing what she is in because she seems to be acting out something, fantasy she may be missing in her life. *She is having a difficult time with her age and getting older*. Not sure if this has anything to do with it. We are scheduled for couple counceling and she has been seeing a councelor by herself.

The affair did not last long about 2-3 months because I suspected an issue and was investigating text messages and other avenues. The man was engaged to be married and I confronted him about the entire incident. *Unfortunately my wife works with the OM.* 

I feel she is sorry for what she has done, even though *she has not apologized for any of her actions. *She is still with us and we do not fight or anything like that. I do get frustrated when we talk about this issue because she shuts down and doesnt talk.

She was not always like this. Something has changed, *started hanging with single women almost half her age and going out*. I stay home with our girls. This doesnt happen very frequent but *she is connected with the younger women which is very weird*! _

That's from day one of your posts here 2 1/2 months ago. Honestly, how much has changed since then?

Sorry, I don't have the stamina to go through all 19 pages, but does your wife still work with the other man? 

Did you ever expose to the other man's fiance? 

What consequences has your wife had? Did your wife ever get her tattoo? If so, what was it? 

Is she still acting like a 20-something who wants to be single?

Still going out with the younger crowd after work?


----------



## JCD

Scoot...I hear your wife is depressed. She's not doing well. She's fretting.

Why doesn't she and SkaterDad's wife get togetther and go double dating together. You and Skaterdad can go out with the kids and b*tch about your wives.

Man, wasn't that what *women* used to do?


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## scoot162

yeah, but it seems to be a whole new world out there.


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## JCD

I don't like it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

Will_Kane nailed it, scoot.
She's exactly the same, right?


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## iheartlife

Will, I sincerely hope Scoot answers your questions--but Scoot, no offense, your posts tend to be drivebys. As in: "things still suck and are pretty much the same as they ever were," you get the identical advice, and then radio silence. I think that's happened about 4 or 5 times now, at least.

So, these are iheartlife's answers to Will's questions. I hope Scoot comes in and corrects me where I'm wrong, and fills in the blanks.



Will_Kane said:


> That's from day one of your posts here 2 1/2 months ago. Honestly, how much has changed since then? No, not much has. They spend more time together, that seems to be the sum total of 'change.'
> 
> Sorry, I don't have the stamina to go through all 19 pages, but does your wife still work with the other man? Yes, she does.
> 
> Did you ever expose to the other man's fiance? No he didn't.
> 
> What consequences has your wife had? None that I know of. Did your wife ever get her tattoo? If so, what was it? Good question.
> 
> Is she still acting like a 20-something who wants to be single? Seems like it to me--she won't go out to lunch with her husband and girls, but gets all excited about joining her 26 year old pal.
> 
> Still going out with the younger crowd after work? Another good question.


----------



## scoot162

1. How much has changed. I seem to be better and am more focused again. She however still is looking for something that she is wanting out of life and cant seem to find it. She says she loves me but it is not the same, something has changed in her and she cant change it back. She questions how much she had to be hurting to have the feelings for me to change like they did. Well here we are still working on the feelings. 
2. Does the wife still work with the other man. Yes, she does. I texted him yesterday just to see if he is honoring his word to me. He said he keeps to himself and away from any contact with her.
3. Did I ever expose to fiance, No I did not. Dont know who she is and dont know how to find out. My energy was focused on keeping my job going and my family and any other outside influence. 
4. What consequences has my wife had. Not many, she still is engaged with our daily routines of our home and is in her job. I have given her a choice to either leave or stay, it was up to her. I would have no choice than to file for D if any of this a happened again. She still seems unhappy with the way our life is and we have a wonderful life! Oh, no tatoo!
5. Is she still acting like a 20 year old. Sometimes yes but not all the time and not as much. She still dresses young, but that does not bother me. It does however bother my oldest daughter. Feel she is trying to compete.
6. She does not go out with her younger friends anymore. She does see them during the day at school

She keeps stating how much I hurt her for not spending enough time with her and focusing so much on job and our daughters. This is the only thing that she has on me. I have since balanced my time and have been spending a considerable amount of time with her. This entire situation is so confusing to me since I always was thoughtful, kind, caring, giving, protective, respectful etc. etc. to her and would do anything for her. I told her we would have more time spend together as our daughters will soon be at the stage where they will not need us as much anymore. She did not wait that long!! She did not seek help if things were getting bad and she did not feel conected in her mind. I was always either at work or coaching or with my family. I was not in bars, not spending time for myself, no I spent all my time for my family. And she is the one who is trying to find her love for me. She has someone who loves her more than life itself right in front of her nose and she is ignoring it. I know she needs consequences but I am so afraid of wrecking things for my daughters lives it isnt funny. She asked me if I would be happy living life out with the way we are. We love each other but!! But what life is as simple or difficult as you want to make it.


----------



## paperoses

scoot162 said:


> I feel she is sorry for what she has done, even though she has not apologized for any of her actions. She is still with us and we do not fight or anything like that. I do get frustrated when we talk about this issue because she shuts down and doesnt talk.


I am very sorry that you are going through this. It is a very painful thing to experience. 

That said, your marriage has several things in it's favor and you can add more. You love your wife, the affair was short lived and your wife is not left the marriage and plans to go to M.C..but...

Not apologizing and shutting down is not acceptable. I am assuming that your wife plans to talk in therapy. a word of warning, there are many therapists out there who do harm by encouraging couples to "put it behind them" too quickly and who blame the betrayed.

I want to suggest that you review new research regarding the efficy of talking about the affair more...and for a longer period of time...rather than putting it behind you. The authors name is Peggy Vaughn and the book can be downloaded for free at DearPeggy.com - Survey on Extramarital Affairs.

Best to you and yours


----------



## sandc

Scoot, 
Obviously I'm outside the situation but what I see in what you write above is false R. She is currently blameshifting and not showing any remorse. No matter what you did she needs to own this and she is not. Your fears and insecurities are going to cause R to fail. You need to be strong and show her you don't need her.

Your wife strikes me as the type who wants what she cannot have. Right now she still has feelings for OM. Lovers kept apart by circumstance. It's a romantic thing for her. She needs to start seeing that she is losing you. If she begins to think you are no longer interested in her she may start to want you again. If you show her that you're unattainable for her she might actually start trying to "win" you back to her.

Or I could be completely off base. At any rate, being nice isn't working. This is a painful notion but nonetheless many times is true: You must be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.

Think about it.


----------



## bigtone128

scoot162 said:


> jCD - I am not getting sorry's or regret or remorse. She does seem affectionate but now you have me wondering after what you wrote. I don't even know what I should be looking for. I would like apology's or for her to tell me she loves me first. We have a long history together and have been a couple for 25 years. I have always been the providor and was always the one to take the first step with things. When most of my attention shifted to my children I feel she felt left out and neglected herself. I failed to balance our marriage and I have corrected that in full. She however seems to be stuck.


Scoot missing the point - you are not getting an apology - you know why? SHE'S NOT SORRY. She's gone man. Take it from me - you are still at fault in her mind - if only you did this, she would not have to had an affair - NOW if you are a good boy - she'll behave but otherwise she wont - and that will be when the next opportunity comes around. Good luck and we'll see you around here when that happens. but i'll bet 20 right now, it'll happen.


----------



## tom67

scoot162 said:


> 1. How much has changed. I seem to be better and am more focused again. She however still is looking for something that she is wanting out of life and cant seem to find it. She says she loves me but it is not the same, something has changed in her and she cant change it back. She questions how much she had to be hurting to have the feelings for me to change like they did. Well here we are still working on the feelings.
> 2. Does the wife still work with the other man. Yes, she does. I texted him yesterday just to see if he is honoring his word to me. He said he keeps to himself and away from any contact with her.
> 3. Did I ever expose to fiance, No I did not. Dont know who she is and dont know how to find out. My energy was focused on keeping my job going and my family and any other outside influence.
> 4. What consequences has my wife had. Not many, she still is engaged with our daily routines of our home and is in her job. I have given her a choice to either leave or stay, it was up to her. I would have no choice than to file for D if any of this a happened again. She still seems unhappy with the way our life is and we have a wonderful life! Oh, no tatoo!
> 5. Is she still acting like a 20 year old. Sometimes yes but not all the time and not as much. She still dresses young, but that does not bother me. It does however bother my oldest daughter. Feel she is trying to compete.
> 6. She does not go out with her younger friends anymore. She does see them during the day at school
> 
> She keeps stating how much I hurt her for not spending enough time with her and focusing so much on job and our daughters. This is the only thing that she has on me. I have since balanced my time and have been spending a considerable amount of time with her. This entire situation is so confusing to me since I always was thoughtful, kind, caring, giving, protective, respectful etc. etc. to her and would do anything for her. I told her we would have more time spend together as our daughters will soon be at the stage where they will not need us as much anymore. She did not wait that long!! She did not seek help if things were getting bad and she did not feel conected in her mind. I was always either at work or coaching or with my family. I was not in bars, not spending time for myself, no I spent all my time for my family. And she is the one who is trying to find her love for me. She has someone who loves her more than life itself right in front of her nose and she is ignoring it. I know she needs consequences but I am so afraid of wrecking things for my daughters lives it isnt funny. She asked me if I would be happy living life out with the way we are. We love each other but!! But what life is as simple or difficult as you want to make it.


SIGH stop being afraid of wrecking things she is the one who wrecked things


----------



## happyman64

> I know she needs consequences but I am so afraid of wrecking things for my daughters lives it isnt funny. She asked me if I would be happy living life out with the way we are. We love each other but!! But what life is as simple or difficult as you want to make it.


Scoot

When I see a BS mention being afraid of fixing their marriage I know the marriage is doomed. Not now but in a few months or a year or two.

That is no way to live.

And when your wife asked you if you were happy living life out the way you both are what was your response???

Because mine would have been "* we are living 2 separate lives. I love you, uphold the marriage vows and strive to keep our family together. You had an affair, brought another man into our marriage, forsaken your vows and are actively trying to break up our family.

Can you tell me where happiness comes into play in the lives we are leading because I am missing something???"*

That is how you answer her question.

And if you do not get a good answer just show her the door and tell her to leave the girls with you.

Now please bend over at the waist, grab your nuts and twist.

Feel the pain. There is a reason that god gave us balls my friend.

Now use them!

Before your wife screws you over again.

HM64


----------



## jim123

scoot162 said:


> 1. How much has changed. I seem to be better and am more focused again. She however still is looking for something that she is wanting out of life and cant seem to find it. She says she loves me but it is not the same, something has changed in her and she cant change it back. She questions how much she had to be hurting to have the feelings for me to change like they did. Well here we are still working on the feelings.
> 2. Does the wife still work with the other man. Yes, she does. I texted him yesterday just to see if he is honoring his word to me. He said he keeps to himself and away from any contact with her.
> 3. Did I ever expose to fiance, No I did not. Dont know who she is and dont know how to find out. My energy was focused on keeping my job going and my family and any other outside influence.
> 4. What consequences has my wife had. Not many, she still is engaged with our daily routines of our home and is in her job. I have given her a choice to either leave or stay, it was up to her. I would have no choice than to file for D if any of this a happened again. She still seems unhappy with the way our life is and we have a wonderful life! Oh, no tatoo!
> 5. Is she still acting like a 20 year old. Sometimes yes but not all the time and not as much. She still dresses young, but that does not bother me. It does however bother my oldest daughter. Feel she is trying to compete.
> 6. She does not go out with her younger friends anymore. She does see them during the day at school
> 
> She keeps stating how much I hurt her for not spending enough time with her and focusing so much on job and our daughters. This is the only thing that she has on me. I have since balanced my time and have been spending a considerable amount of time with her. This entire situation is so confusing to me since I always was thoughtful, kind, caring, giving, protective, respectful etc. etc. to her and would do anything for her. I told her we would have more time spend together as our daughters will soon be at the stage where they will not need us as much anymore. She did not wait that long!! She did not seek help if things were getting bad and she did not feel conected in her mind. I was always either at work or coaching or with my family. I was not in bars, not spending time for myself, no I spent all my time for my family. And she is the one who is trying to find her love for me. She has someone who loves her more than life itself right in front of her nose and she is ignoring it. I know she needs consequences but I am so afraid of wrecking things for my daughters lives it isnt funny. She asked me if I would be happy living life out with the way we are. We love each other but!! But what life is as simple or difficult as you want to make it.


Scoot,

If you valued your marriage you would have acted stronger. Your approach never works as it comes accross as you do not care enough. You are like someone who had his car stolen and says he is sorry because the tank was not full. And by the way let me pay the insurance too.

She knows she did wrong and you say it is your fault. How is that going to help. You are either the bad husband who drove her to that or you are one who does not respect himself. What woman would want either.

You do not share what you love. You do not give it away. 

All you are doing is validating every excuse she had in cheating.

You had to become someone that she could not loose or give up. You needed to become someone she loved and not pitied.


----------



## Will_Kane

scoot162 said:


> 1. How much has changed. I seem to be better and am more focused again. She however still is looking for something that *she is wanting out of life and cant seem to find it.* She says she loves me but it is not the same, something has changed in her and she cant change it back. She questions *how much she had to be hurting to have the feelings for me to change like they did*. Well here we are still working on the feelings.
> 
> 2. *Does the wife still work with the other man. Yes*, she does. I texted him yesterday just to see if he is honoring his word to me. He said he keeps to himself and away from any contact with her.
> 
> 3. *Did I ever expose to fiance, No I did not*. Dont know who she is and dont know how to find out. My energy was focused on keeping my job going and my family and any other outside influence.
> 
> 4. *What consequences has my wife had. Not many*, she still is engaged with our daily routines of our home and is in her job. I have given her a choice to either leave or stay, it was up to her. I would have no choice than to file for D if any of this a happened again. *She still seems unhappy with the way our life is and we have a wonderful life!* Oh, no tatoo!
> 
> 5. Is she still acting like a 20 year old. Sometimes yes but not all the time and not as much. She still dresses young, but that does not bother me. *It does however bother my oldest daughter. Feel she is trying to compete*.
> 
> 6. She does not go out with her younger friends anymore. She does see them during the day at school
> 
> *She keeps stating how much I hurt her for not spending enough time with her and focusing so much on job and our daughters. *This is the only thing that she has on me. I have since balanced my time and have been spending a considerable amount of time with her. This entire situation is so confusing to me since I always was thoughtful, kind, caring, giving, protective, respectful etc. etc. to her and would do anything for her. * I told her we would have more time spend together as our daughters will soon be at the stage where they will not need us as much anymore.* She did not wait that long!! She did not seek help if things were getting bad and she did not feel conected in her mind. I was always either at work or coaching or with my family. I was not in bars, not spending time for myself, no I spent all my time for my family. And she is the one who is trying to find her love for me. She has someone who loves her more than life itself right in front of her nose and she is ignoring it. I know she needs consequences but *I am so afraid of wrecking things for my daughters lives it isnt funny*. *She asked me if I would be happy living life out with the way we are*. We love each other but!! But what life is as simple or difficult as you want to make it.


Scoot, you have neglected your wife terribly. You have spent too much time focused on your daughters, to the extent that your wife and oldest daughter feel that they are in competition with each other. Your wife had been jealous for some time preceeding her affair that you transferred the attention that should have been reserved for your wife and gave it to your daughters. Your wife tried to tell you this over and over, and you refused to listen to her. Your response to your wife's legitimate concern that you prioritized your daughters WAY, WAY above your wife, was that soon enough your daughters would get older (by soon enough I assume you meant within several YEARS) and then you would re-focus some of that attention back to your wife. *You made your wife feel like the backup plan.* Your response to your wife was basically to agree with her that, yes, I spend too much time with my daughters, but just wait a few years and I will spend some time with you again.

Scoot, when you took your vows, you probably pledged to have and to hold and to place each other above ALL others - that includes your children. There is nothing wrong with being a doting, loving father who is involved with his children - but this cannot come at the expense of your wife.

It is a very common problem for parents to prioritize their children before each other and before themselves. In many, if not most, marriages, BOTH PARENTS do this. In many marriages, one parent focuses more on the children than the other, but the other parent does not mind or can tolerate it. The focus on the children and the neglect of each other is a huge contributor to marital problems in general, including infidelity. In your case, your wife wanted your attention, deserved your attention, tried to tell you about it, and you basically ignored her and told her, wait a few years, when my daughters no longer want my attention, then I will give it back to you.

THIS DOES NOT JUSTIFY YOUR WIFE'S AFFAIR. I don't know what other problems you may have had with your wife prior to her affair. From your posts, it would seem none - you were happy with your wife. I think you were largely at fault for the problems in the marriage. She is entirely responsible for the affair. She was not happy with you. So she cheated. *She should have just left you, filed for divorce, do all of the other things we recommend to wake up the spouse who is in the fog, to get them to realize what they are losing - but not cheat.*

Now you say you have tried to spend more time with your wife. BALANCED is the word you used. Is that how your wife sees it, or just how you see it? I see it as GRUDGINGLY. My guess is that your wife sees it that way, too. Grudgingly. Because she woke you up by having her affair. Your wife likely feels that you would rather be spending this new "balanced" time with your daughters, but now you are obligated to spend it with your wife. Your wife wants you to spend time with her and focus on her because YOU WANT TO, not because YOU FEEL OBLIGATED TO. Maybe your wife feels that since your time was so unbalanced in favor of your daughters for so long, maybe now that your time should be unbalanced in favor of your wife.

I have no doubts that you love your wife and your daughters, and that you feel that your daughters, because of their ages, need you more than your wife, and that you were doing what you thought best. I really strongly feel that you and your wife have to be number one to each other, above your daughters, both doing what is best for your daughters, but not to the detriment of each other.

My suggestions: 

Start taking your wife out to have fun. Plan regular evenings out alone with her based on what you think she would like to do. Make her feel like she is NUMBER ONE in your life. Start showing some enthusiasm for your wife. Heck, take her out to the tattoo parlor and pick out a tattoo with her.

Apologize to your wife for your legitimate faults in the marriage. Be sincere. Tell her you want to improve yourself and improve your marriage.

Ask your wife to look for another job. Insist on it. As long as she keeps seeing the other man, your marriage will be negatively impacted. Every time she sees him, she thinks about the affair. Probably fondly.

Expose the affair to the other man's fiance. If you don't want to do it, just say, "I don't want to do it," don't say that you don't know her name or how to contact her. Those are things that you could find out if you wanted to.

Stop talking to the other man to get his reassurance that he is not still sexing your wife. I wouldn't recommend talking to him at all, but if you're going to talk to him, it would be better to talk to him in a threatening manner than in a nice manner. I wouldn't appeal to the better angels of his nature. I would put the fear of God into him. If I talked to him at all. Which I wouldn't. I would blow up his life by exposing to his fiance.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm off base with anything I've said about your relationship with your wife, pre or post affair. These are my impressions based on your posts that I've read.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

some women are lucky.........


----------



## scoot162

Kallan Pavithran said:


> some women are lucky.........


What is your meaning of this?


----------



## scoot162

Will_Kane said:


> Scoot, you have neglected your wife terribly. You have spent too much time focused on your daughters, to the extent that your wife and oldest daughter feel that they are in competition with each other. Your wife had been jealous for some time preceeding her affair that you transferred the attention that should have been reserved for your wife and gave it to your daughters. Your wife tried to tell you this over and over, and you refused to listen to her. Your response to your wife's legitimate concern that you prioritized your daughters WAY, WAY above your wife, was that soon enough your daughters would get older (by soon enough I assume you meant within several YEARS) and then you would re-focus some of that attention back to your wife. *You made your wife feel like the backup plan.* Your response to your wife was basically to agree with her that, yes, I spend too much time with my daughters, but just wait a few years and I will spend some time with you again.
> 
> Scoot, when you took your vows, you probably pledged to have and to hold and to place each other above ALL others - that includes your children. There is nothing wrong with being a doting, loving father who is involved with his children - but this cannot come at the expense of your wife.
> 
> It is a very common problem for parents to prioritize their children before each other and before themselves. In many, if not most, marriages, BOTH PARENTS do this. In many marriages, one parent focuses more on the children than the other, but the other parent does not mind or can tolerate it. The focus on the children and the neglect of each other is a huge contributor to marital problems in general, including infidelity. In your case, your wife wanted your attention, deserved your attention, tried to tell you about it, and you basically ignored her and told her, wait a few years, when my daughters no longer want my attention, then I will give it back to you.
> 
> THIS DOES NOT JUSTIFY YOUR WIFE'S AFFAIR. I don't know what other problems you may have had with your wife prior to her affair. From your posts, it would seem none - you were happy with your wife. I think you were largely at fault for the problems in the marriage. She is entirely responsible for the affair. She was not happy with you. So she cheated. *She should have just left you, filed for divorce, do all of the other things we recommend to wake up the spouse who is in the fog, to get them to realize what they are losing - but not cheat.*
> 
> Now you say you have tried to spend more time with your wife. BALANCED is the word you used. Is that how your wife sees it, or just how you see it? I see it as GRUDGINGLY. My guess is that your wife sees it that way, too. Grudgingly. Because she woke you up by having her affair. Your wife likely feels that you would rather be spending this new "balanced" time with your daughters, but now you are obligated to spend it with your wife. Your wife wants you to spend time with her and focus on her because YOU WANT TO, not because YOU FEEL OBLIGATED TO. Maybe your wife feels that since your time was so unbalanced in favor of your daughters for so long, maybe now that your time should be unbalanced in favor of your wife.
> 
> I have no doubts that you love your wife and your daughters, and that you feel that your daughters, because of their ages, need you more than your wife, and that you were doing what you thought best. I really strongly feel that you and your wife have to be number one to each other, above your daughters, both doing what is best for your daughters, but not to the detriment of each other.
> 
> My suggestions:
> 
> Start taking your wife out to have fun. Plan regular evenings out alone with her based on what you think she would like to do. Make her feel like she is NUMBER ONE in your life. Start showing some enthusiasm for your wife. Heck, take her out to the tattoo parlor and pick out a tattoo with her.
> 
> Apologize to your wife for your legitimate faults in the marriage. Be sincere. Tell her you want to improve yourself and improve your marriage.
> 
> Ask your wife to look for another job. Insist on it. As long as she keeps seeing the other man, your marriage will be negatively impacted. Every time she sees him, she thinks about the affair. Probably fondly.
> 
> Expose the affair to the other man's fiance. If you don't want to do it, just say, "I don't want to do it," don't say that you don't know her name or how to contact her. Those are things that you could find out if you wanted to.
> 
> Stop talking to the other man to get his reassurance that he is not still sexing your wife. I wouldn't recommend talking to him at all, but if you're going to talk to him, it would be better to talk to him in a threatening manner than in a nice manner. I wouldn't appeal to the better angels of his nature. I would put the fear of God into him. If I talked to him at all. Which I wouldn't. I would blow up his life by exposing to his fiance.
> 
> I'm sorry if you feel I'm off base with anything I've said about your relationship with your wife, pre or post affair. These are my impressions based on your posts that I've read.


You are not off base with anything you mentioned about our relationship. I was extremely busy with everything around me more so than most people and neglecting the most important person in my life (my wife). I took for granted that she would always be there and that was something I had a gaurentee on. I was totally wrong!!!! I admit my failures and am working on gaining her respect and love back. I have always considered her my best friend and most importantly my sole mate. A lot of threads tell me to man up, but I have been very sympathetic to her needs through all of this. I do love her more than anything. I know I sound like a broken record because I say this throughout these posts. I have been doing all you suggest and trying to spend at least 15 hours a week (very hard sometimes) for just the two of us. Not because that is what I am supposed to do, because I want to do and it feels great doing it. I forgot how much I do really love my wife. Just wish she felt the same of me. I know it will take time and I still need to continue to heal as well. I have major trust and anxiety issues. Thank you very much for all your input.


----------



## happyman64

scoot162 said:


> You are not off base with anything you mentioned about our relationship. I was extremely busy with everything around me more so than most people and neglecting the most important person in my life (my wife). I took for granted that she would always be there and that was something I had a gaurentee on. I was totally wrong!!!! I admit my failures and am working on gaining her respect and love back. I have always considered her my best friend and most importantly my sole mate. A lot of threads tell me to man up, but I have been very sympathetic to her needs through all of this. I do love her more than anything. I know I sound like a broken record because I say this throughout these posts. I have been doing all you suggest and trying to spend at least 15 hours a week (very hard sometimes) for just the two of us. Not because that is what I am supposed to do, because I want to do and it feels great doing it. I forgot how much I do really love my wife. Just wish she felt the same of me. I know it will take time and I still need to continue to heal as well. I have major trust and anxiety issues. Thank you very much for all your input.


Scoot

I take your post to heart. I have 3 girls that I am very involved with. 

And maybe you did ignore your wife.

All I can tell you is that my wife loves me more because I sped more time with my girls that I do with friends. I choose my children over sporting events or sales trips.

I live for my wife and kids. And as much as you ignored her I think she has self esteem issues that have nothing to do with you.

Most women would think you are father of the year. So I understand where WIllKane is coming from. And you might be responsible for ignoring her and abusing your marriage.

But remember, she had the option to bring these issues up to you and then decide to S or D. Instead she chose to cheat.

No matter what happens to your marriage I understand you love your wife. I just hope she realizes how much and can reciprocate that same level of love.

HM64


----------



## iheartlife

I find the whole, my daughter thinks my wife dresses very age-inappropriately thing disturbing. Only you can sift through this to figure out what the core problem is. I can picture a couple of scenarios, neither one of which is good.

On the one hand, your wife is telegraphing in many different ways that she doesn't want to be a middle-aged wife and mom. She'd like to be single (free to date whomever); she'd like to be young (with no responsibilities except her own); she'd like a tattoo; and she'd like to dress in a way that is apparently embarassing her teenage daughter enough that it's come to your attention. 

Most teenagers do NOT want their parents to be dowdy (too embarrassing)--they can appreciate a parent who is fashion-forward. So there is something there that bothers your daughter. Is it that your wife is too revealing--her clothing is tight, she shows a lot of skin? Teenagers are starting to grapple with sexuality, and are acutely aware of a parent coming off as a sl*t.

However, according to your daughter, your wife is taking this to another level--your daughter doesn't just feel embarrassed for her mom (typical teenage reaction to such a situation)--no, instead, she seems to see your wife as her RIVAL.

So what is going on there? Have you set the girls up as such focal points of your lives that now that you are spending more time with your wife, your daughter feels threatened by that? Is this something your daughter has been complaining about for a long time, or is it a more recent development?


----------



## scoot162

happyman64 said:


> Scoot
> 
> I take your post to heart. I have 3 girls that I am very involved with.
> 
> And maybe you did ignore your wife.
> 
> All I can tell you is that my wife loves me more because I sped more time with my girls that I do with friends. I choose my children over sporting events or sales trips.
> 
> I live for my wife and kids. And as much as you ignored her I think she has self esteem issues that have nothing to do with you.
> 
> Most women would think you are father of the year. So I understand where WIllKane is coming from. And you might be responsible for ignoring her and abusing your marriage.
> 
> But remember, she had the option to bring these issues up to you and then decide to S or D. Instead she chose to cheat.
> 
> No matter what happens to your marriage I understand you love your wife. I just hope she realizes how much and can reciprocate that same level of love.
> 
> HM64


I did not look at this as ignoring my wife, more so as neglecting her needs. It is not that we never did anything together, we did but our alone time was very minimal and we were always on the go thought the year at our daughters many sporting events and concerts. I coached or helped coach all of our daughters sports teams and at one instance during softball season was juggling three teams at one time. Why did I take on all of this? Here is we're I took my wife's needs and feelings for granted and did not take what this insane load would do to our relationship. She did try to tak to me about my commitments and that she was starting to feel like we were drifting apart. I did not want to hear this and failed to recognize her cry for help. I was have troubles with my job and was very stressed and the last thing I wanted to hear is that my marriage was struggling. I wish she would have been forceful with me and told me she wants a D unless I wise up. I needed a wake up call. Well I got one all right when I found out of the A. As you stated you live for your wife and kids, I do the same day in and day out. They all are my entire world and would do anything for all of them. I too do not go out with the guys, stopped hunting, fishing, playing hockey etc. Do I mind, not at all because the time I spend is with my family and that is where I should be. Always felt this way. I enjoy every second of it!!!


----------



## scoot162

iheartlife said:


> I find the whole, my daughter thinks my wife dresses very age-inappropriately thing disturbing. Only you can sift through this to figure out what the core problem is. I can picture a couple of scenarios, neither one of which is good.
> 
> On the one hand, your wife is telegraphing in many different ways that she doesn't want to be a middle-aged wife and mom. She'd like to be single (free to date whomever); she'd like to be young (with no responsibilities except her own); she'd like a tattoo; and she'd like to dress in a way that is apparently embarassing her teenage daughter enough that it's come to your attention.
> 
> Most teenagers do NOT want their parents to be dowdy (too embarrassing)--they can appreciate a parent who is fashion-forward. So there is something there that bothers your daughter. Is it that your wife is too revealing--her clothing is tight, she shows a lot of skin? Teenagers are starting to grapple with sexuality, and are acutely aware of a parent coming off as a sl*t.
> 
> However, according to your daughter, your wife is taking this to another level--your daughter doesn't just feel embarrassed for her mom (typical teenage reaction to such a situation)--no, instead, she seems to see your wife as her RIVAL.
> 
> So what is going on there? Have you set the girls up as such focal points of your lives that now that you are spending more time with your wife, your daughter feels threatened by that? Is this something your daughter has been complaining about for a long time, or is it a more recent development?


I see a change in her as she previously was very conservative and soft spoken. She began letting loose so to speak and started dressing young. Not revealing or provocative but young. She is petite and my oldest daughter is taller and heavier than her. I know this bothers my daughter, as she is vocal about it. My wife feels she blames her for the A and thinks that has a lot to do with the tension between them. At this point in my daughters life she needs her mother more than ever with teenage issues, boys, peer pressures etc. it tears me up there is this type of tension between them. I tried to talk to both of them separately about what is going on and hope it helps. I do not feel my daughter feels threatened about me spending more time with my wife. She must realize this is how we both got to where we are because of the lack of quality time together.


----------



## JCD

I'm just curious if you had ever heard of paragraph breaks. Don't listen to the naysayers: hitting the carriage return (or 'Enter' key) will NOT cost you money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scoot162

JCD said:


> I'm just curious if you had ever heard of paragraph breaks. Don't listen to the naysayers: hitting the carriage return (or 'Enter' key) will NOT cost you money.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, thank you for the tip. Seems when I get thoughts, I start typing and dont stop. Will pay more attention from now on. Thanks.


----------



## sandc

JCD said:


> I'm just curious if you had ever heard of paragraph breaks. Don't listen to the naysayers: hitting the carriage return (or 'Enter' key) will NOT cost you money.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His lack of carriage returns never bothered me but that polite bit of sarcasm made me laugh. :lol:


----------



## scoot162

happyman64 said:


> Scoot
> 
> I take your post to heart. I have 3 girls that I am very involved with.
> 
> And maybe you did ignore your wife.
> 
> All I can tell you is that my wife loves me more because I sped more time with my girls that I do with friends. I choose my children over sporting events or sales trips.
> 
> I live for my wife and kids. And as much as you ignored her I think she has self esteem issues that have nothing to do with you.
> 
> Most women would think you are father of the year. So I understand where WIllKane is coming from. And you might be responsible for ignoring her and abusing your marriage.
> 
> But remember, she had the option to bring these issues up to you and then decide to S or D. Instead she chose to cheat.
> 
> No matter what happens to your marriage I understand you love your wife. I just hope she realizes how much and can reciprocate that same level of love.
> 
> HM64


Happy Man
Thank you for your understanding. I really am not exactly sure what my wife is feeling inside. She has security, a beautiful home, wonderful daughters and a husband that cares for her more than anything. She seems confused, almost torn between a life she missed out on in her younger years and the life she has now. 

My neglect to provide her emotional needs, is also puzzling to me. I am not sure how I failed here as we still went out on occasion without the children, but have failed terrible in the bedroom. I have done the 180 and now put my marriage and wife as number one priority. 

Ever Since we had children we both put them first. My wife stayed at home to raise the children and took care of the home. She went back to work after our youngest started school. She was always the best mother and wife but something changed in her the past year that I can not figure out.

I wish she would have hit me over the head with a 2x4 to wake me up and get me out of denial that our marriage was in rough waters. I keep asking myself why didn't she get me help, why didn't she get me out of my environment and the fog I was in. Why didn't she talk to someone if she felt our marriage was unstable. 

I admit my mistakes, why is it so hard for her to admit hers?


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## iheartlife

scoot162 said:


> I wish she would have hit me over the head with a 2x4 to wake me up and get me out of denial that our marriage was in rough waters. I keep asking myself why didn't she get me help, why didn't she get me out of my environment and the fog I was in. Why didn't she talk to someone if she felt our marriage was unstable.
> 
> I admit my mistakes, why is it so hard for her to admit hers?


That's exactly why this forum exists. Because there are a heck of a lot of other people who would like answers to those very questions. But we probably aren't going to get them in this lifetime.

The common answer is, "because she was selfish." But that is a truism. It's selfish to cheat, and therefore she was selfish. The real question is why it was so easy to cheat and so hard to ask very honestly (even if that mean going to counseling, or filing for divorce) for what she wanted.


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## happyman64

:iagree:

And Scoot.

The 180 is great for you. Not your wife.

Use it to build yourself up. 

Again I will say her decision to cheat on you and have an Affair has very little to do with you.

And while she may not admit it was wrong do not live your life waiting for that apology. Because you may never get it.

But you can tell her that your going to counselling with her to find out why she chose so poorly instead of turning to you for help.

There is no excuse to cheat. We all took a vow to each other.

Why did she make that conscious decision to break it.

Why does she use your work ethic or time dedicated to your girls as her excuse to have an Affair.

Those are the real questions.

Because until she answers those questions you cannot truly move forward in your marriage.

I always say to friends Scoot that "My wife is my life". But what they understand from my actions that my family means everything to me.

From your posts you feel the same way about your family.

*What you need from your wife is for her to learn and understand why she does not have the same desire for her family as you do?*

Because an Affair not only can destroy a marriage but they destroy your family too!

Do not let her quit and do not quit on her either......

HM64


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## warlock07

> My wife feels she blames her for the A and thinks that has a lot to do with the tension between them


Huh ? Does she feel responsible for the affair ? maybe you are just delaying the inevitable


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## bigtone128

scoot162 said:


> Happy Man
> Thank you for your understanding. I really am not exactly sure what my wife is feeling inside. She has security, a beautiful home, wonderful daughters and a husband that cares for her more than anything. She seems confused, almost torn between a life she missed out on in her younger years and the life she has now.
> 
> *My neglect to provide her emotional needs, is also puzzling to me. * I am not sure how I failed here as we still went out on occasion without the children, but have failed terrible in the bedroom. *I have done the 180 and now put my marriage and wife as number one priority. *
> 
> Ever Since we had children we both put them first. My wife stayed at home to raise the children and took care of the home. She went back to work after our youngest started school. She was always the best mother and wife but something changed in her
> 2 the past year that I can not figure out.
> 
> I wish she would have hit me over the head with a 2x4 to wake me up and get me out of denial that our marriage was in rough waters. I keep asking myself *why didn't she get me help, why didn't she get me out of my environment and the fog* I was in. *Why didn't she talk to someone if she felt our marriage was unstable.*
> 
> *I admit my mistakes, why is it so hard for her to admit hers*?


1) You are not responsible for he emotional needs - she is!

2) you are doing the 180 AND putting the marrage first? hhmmm

3) Why didn't she get YOU help to get YOU out of the fog? wrong question....wrong fog.....

4) She did talk to someone - it was her affair partner...

5) Not admitting her mistakes because she is not sorry...people who are sorry - apologize to those they care about. Those who are not do not...

Listen for what it is worth - my STBXW had an emotional affair before he had a physical affair and that was before I came to this site - I was grateful to just get her back and worked hard at relationship only to have her walk out 3 years later in a PA. 

One of her criticisms and reasons for EA was I never complimented her SO I made a point of complimenting her EVERY DAY about how she looked - and when she left she said she felt better than me. Point being - it is not you - it's her! I wish you better luck than me but until she looks at HER and faces why she did what she did - you will be the scapegoat - thus another affair around the corner. Sorry for bursting your bubble. 

As a matter of fact, I read a book around this time giving me the same advice and I never believed it! Thought (like you) our problems are behind us - boy was I wrong - and I wish I left the first time - I was better prepared and in a better position.


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## Acabado

> My neglect to provide her emotional needs, is also puzzling to me.


Listen man. You can always do things better. You could step out. Sure.

Reality is your wife have all very easy, she had the dream life.

Very little of what's going on her has anything to do with you nor is something you can control. You can't compensate her missing out the fun she never had when young. You can't make her feel and behave like a grown up or apreciate what she have, you are not a single twenty something GF that can make her feel young and carefree. Short of a divorce and becoming a cougar nobody can but herself. She's the one at the crossroad.

You can try improve all you want. Still you can't satisfy certain appetites she has. Many times we tell ourselves why didn't she talk to me before cheating? Do you know why they didn't?
Because most times you, her husbad is the lastest one up to the task. What an affair provides is something the husband can't. Why in the hell would tell you? Different appetites, different "needs" satiesfied.


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## snap

Emotional needs is what WWs have to pull out when it's obvious their all other needs are met.


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## scoot162

snap said:


> Emotional needs is what WWs have to pull out when it's obvious their all other needs are met.


I am in agreement with this. I ran the situation over and over in my mind and really can't understand how this A. I always believed I had the perfect family, a loving wife, beautiful daughters and a secure home. I still believe this!

Marriage is not without bumps and struggles but I thought I was providing for my family the best I could. What I didn't focus enough was my bond with my wife and failed to provide this key element. My main focus became my children and left our relationship on the back burner. 

We still laughed, did things together but as she put it, she felt we were like very close roommates instead of lovers. I never stopped loving my wife, just became infatuated with my girls and providing and doing things for them. I found myself planning everything around their activities and including them in getaways and vacations. I thought that is what you did when you had a family. 

I remember back when our girls were born and my wife spent all her time raising the girls and at home taking care of us. We were so happy, we didnt have much alone time and she was very tired much of the time because of her long days with the children. I insisted she stay home and not work and she did until our girls were in school. I was so proud of my wife and grateful for all her efforts and hard work. 

Like her time raising the children, now I am involved coaching them and spend much of my time after I get home from a long days at work with them. 

If it was okay for my wife to focus on the children in the early stages of their lives, why now is it wrong for me to do the same?

I will admit my faults until the cows come home, I failed to provide my wife and our marriage enough of my time and energy to keep it healthy. I know this now because I realized how I failed and how unhappy she must have been. However, there are too many other signs and changes with her that has nothing to do with me and wonder if she had other reasons to go outside our marriage for fulfillment.


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## sandc

Dude...

Lot's of women put up with far worse than a loving father. 

THEY...
DON'T...
CHEAT.

This really isn't about you. You've got a broken woman on your hands.


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## scoot162

sandc said:


> Dude...
> 
> Lot's of women put up with far worse than a loving father.
> 
> THEY...
> DON'T...
> CHEAT.
> 
> This really isn't about you. You've got a broken woman on your hands.


I wish I knew how to fix her!


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## Will_Kane

Is she still in the house, acting like she would rather be a single 20-something than the married mother of a teenager?

Any changes?


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## sandc

Fix yourself. She can either come along for the ride or not. You can't control her. Sucks, I know. But you can't live like this right?


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## scoot162

sandc said:


> Fix yourself. She can either come along for the ride or not. You can't control her. Sucks, I know. But you can't live like this right?


I seem to be in a better state of mind however I still have my setbacks and feel depressed on occasion. It is very difficult dealing with all of this when you are raising two teenage daughters with mood swings, peer issues and boys. I can't imagine what God is preparing me for? I am an endurance athlete and this has tested me more than anything has before!


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## keko

scoot162 said:


> I wish I knew how to fix her!


YOU CAN'T FIX HER. 

It's not even you're responsibility to fix her. Only she can. 

Now can she fix herself? Possible but I doubt it. 

In the mean time, do what ever that you know you deserve. A better partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scoot162

Will_Kane said:


> Is she still in the house, acting like she would rather be a single 20-something than the married mother of a teenager?
> 
> Any changes?


She is still with us and yes I have been seeing improvements. She still does not know what she wants and I am unsure of her intentions. She seems more committed and doesn't go out with her younger friends. I feel she is trying but I still feel she is holding back. Our intimacy has picked up and I feel we are starting to connect again. 

She has good days and bad, as do I. Some days she seems affectionate and others she does not. Still think she owes OM some sort of explanation or for her to put closure to the a or something. I know she tried to contact him but he did not respond to her.


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## scoot162

keko said:


> YOU CAN'T FIX HER.
> 
> It's not even you're responsibility to fix her. Only she can.
> 
> Now can she fix herself? Possible but I doubt it.
> 
> In the mean time, do what ever that you know you deserve. A better partner.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand what you are saying but I still love her and I do believe she needs my help more Han ever before. We have been together for 25 years and have a family. I must do everything in my power to keep us together to the end. 
I know what I deserve, and like I said in earlier posts, always put everyone else's needs before mine. I deserve my wife back, i can't imagine a life without her.


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## Will_Kane

scoot162 said:


> She is still with us and yes I have been seeing improvements. She still does not know what she wants and I am unsure of her intentions. She seems more committed and doesn't go out with her younger friends. I feel she is trying but I still feel she is holding back. Our intimacy has picked up and I feel we are starting to connect again.
> 
> She has good days and bad, as do I. Some days she seems affectionate and others she does not. *Still think she owes OM some sort of explanation or for her to put closure to the a or something. I know she tried to contact him but he did not respond to her*.


Very bad sign, scoot. Be very wary of her. She still has very strong feelings for OM if she tried to contact him and she feels she "owes" him anything. If she has told you she feels this way, she is missing him terribly and will rationalize anything to be in contact with him again. Her trying to contact him again after all that has gone on is not for "closure"; he is still in her head. She wants a tearful goodbye from him, with them both crying and professing love for each other. She wants to know that he still loves her. She needs the validation. You called it a mid-life crisis. I call it eating cake.

*Did she tell you about the attempted contact beforehand, or did you find out about it afterward?*

scoot, I understand where you're coming from with wanting to keep the family intact for the kids. I will not try to convince you to file for divorce. I disagree with the way you are going about it, but it seems you've made up your mind on how to handle it and you are not going to let anyone dissuade you. if she would risk hurting you and her marriage by attempting to contact him for "closure" that supposedly would not alter the outcome one little bit. You should be the one having up and down days at this point, not her, unless they are in reaction to yours. I don't trust her, scoot. Keep an eye on her. Be wary.
I


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## scoot162

Will_Kane said:


> Very bad sign, scoot. Be very wary of her. She still has very strong feelings for OM if she tried to contact him and she feels she "owes" him anything. If she has told you she feels this way, she is missing him terribly and will rationalize anything to be in contact with him again. Her trying to contact him again after all that has gone on is not for "closure"; he is still in her head. She wants a tearful goodbye from him, with them both crying and professing love for each other. She wants to know that he still loves her. She needs the validation. You called it a mid-life crisis. I call it eating cake.
> 
> *Did she tell you about the attempted contact beforehand, or did you find out about it afterward?*
> 
> scoot, I understand where you're coming from with wanting to keep the family intact for the kids. I will not try to convince you to file for divorce. I disagree with the way you are going about it, but it seems you've made up your mind on how to handle it and you are not going to let anyone dissuade you. if she would risk hurting you and her marriage by attempting to contact him for "closure" that supposedly would not alter the outcome one little bit. You should be the one having up and down days at this point, not her, unless they are in reaction to yours. I don't trust her, scoot. Keep an eye on her. Be wary.
> I


I understand what you are saying and I found this out on my own. I really do not know how to approach her about this. Maybe just ask her if he had tried to contact her and then reverse the question. 
How could she be in love with a 20 something boy, she is in her 40's.? I am very wary and this type of action just sets me back. I don't trust her either and it hurts me so bad to say that!


----------



## warlock07

scoot162 said:


> She is still with us and yes I have been seeing improvements. She still does not know what she wants and I am unsure of her intentions. She seems more committed and doesn't go out with her younger friends. I feel she is trying but I still feel she is holding back. Our intimacy has picked up and I feel we are starting to connect again.
> 
> She has good days and bad, as do I. Some days she seems affectionate and others she does not. .



because in her mind OM is still an option. Which is why you need to expose to OW..exposure is not all about revenge..




> Still think she owes OM some sort of explanation or for her to put closure to the a or something. I know she tried to contact him but he did not respond to her


Explanation or convincing why they should be together? Nothing screams second choice more than this!! You seem to someone she is settling for. She is with you because OM wasn't an option. how are you able to put up with this kind of treatment and humiliation?Did you confront her about the contact attempt?


----------



## bandit.45

scoot162 said:


> I understand what you are saying and I found this out on my own. I really do not know how to approach her about this. Maybe just ask her if he had tried to contact her and then reverse the question.
> How could she be in love with a 20 something boy, she is in her 40's.? I am very wary and this type of action just sets me back. I don't trust her either and it hurts me so bad to say that!


She's in love with a fantasy scoot. The OM just wanted her for a piece of a*s. Its a completely one sided relationship, and all of it is in her head. 

You need to hit her hard with the news that you found out she contacted him, and you need to ask her to leave the home for a while... a couple weeks to a month maybe. Knock her out of the comfort zone she is in and scare the hell out of her. 

Making her see what she stands to lose is the only thing you can do to bring her back from the brink. Seriously, you have been told this again and again and still you refuse to take the advice from TAM posters who have been through this crap. 

Take your wife off the pedestal and see her for the run-of-the- mill cheater she is. There is absolutely nothing...nothing...special about her -- other than she is the mother of your children...and a lousy one at that for endangering her childrens' future by having an affair.


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## Will_Kane

scoot162 said:


> I understand what you are saying and *I found this out on my own. I really do not know how to approach her about this. Maybe just ask her if he had tried to contact her and then reverse the question*.
> How could she be in love with a 20 something boy, she is in her 40's.? I am very wary and this type of action just sets me back. I don't trust her either and it hurts me so bad to say that!


Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher?

I have zero tolerance for my wife being "in love" with or even "having feelings" for another man, so my advice would be to file for divorce, ask her to move out, offer to help her pack her stuff and take it to his place (or his parents?), call other man, tell him he's won, your wife is his problem now, you'll be bringing her over with all her baggage. I won't stay together with someone who doesn't love me - I would rather be alone. I'm all for "working on the marriage" for the kids' sake, but if she is contacting him, I don't call that "working on the marriage." From your other posts, she's really not into you or the marriage at this point, she'd rather be single. I'm too proud to accept that my wife is only with me for the kids or because she's afraid of what people will think or because of the financial good life I provide for her. If that's the case, I prefer to be by myself than to be with her.

Should you confront her? I don't know - is there any answer she could give that would make a difference to how you will proceed anyway? I'm guessing that she'll tell you the thing about closure. Your asking and her answering won't change anything about what is happening right now in your marriage. I can't understand why you would worry at all about how to ask her. She's the one who should be worried about losing you, not vice versa.

So, scoot, you can see that my advice is no good for you. What you are willing to tolerate is much different than what I am willing to tolerate. I don't understand you and you probably don't understand me. But I sympathize with you.


----------



## warlock07

scoot162 said:


> I understand what you are saying and I found this out on my own. I really do not know how to approach her about this. Maybe just ask her if he had tried to contact her and then reverse the question.
> How could she be in love with a 20 something boy, she is in her 40's.? I am very wary and this type of action just sets me back. I don't trust her either and it hurts me so bad to say that!


WTF?? I don't mean to insult you but you need to seriously grow some balls. You are scared to confront her ? Are you even sure that the affair ended ? MAybe the OM was cautious because she called from the regular phone..

She treats you like this because you allow her. Go make a post in the Ladies Lounge about how your wife had an affair because you were too focused on the kids.. many women would kill to have a husband like that..And she made the must stupid excuse she could find to blame you. Your wife is acting like a entitled spoiled child with no regard to your feelings. She has no respect for you. She won't help you feel better. She won't heal your pain. And you are the one desperately trying to make things better..

She is acting love sick in front of her H after the her affair broke up from her lover and you are letting her get away with it...Why are you so scared to separate ? Are you teaching to your daughters that this the way to treat their future SO's like this or to react so passively when they treat them so bad ?


----------



## Malaise

scoot162 said:


> I understand what you are saying and I found this out on my own. *I really do not know how to approach her about this. * Maybe just ask her if he had tried to contact her and then reverse the question.
> How could she be in love with a 20 something boy, she is in her 40's.? I am very wary and this type of action just sets me back. I don't trust her either and it hurts me so bad to say that!


*Just go up to her and tell her!*
Thats all.

Ans listen to the others. This will continue until you say it doesn't.

She won't stop until you give hera reason to stop

It's on you to give her the hard choices. She won't choose herself


----------



## jnj express

Scoot---you just don't get it do you

Warlock has for months been begging you to contact your wife's lover's fiancee---you shine him on with the BS---you don't know how to contact her---if you wanna find someone there are lots of ways

I asked you to tell your wife to put in for transfer to another school---so she CAN'T, be in contact anymore---have you done that---let me answer for you---NO you haven't

Have you not figured out that your wife knows how to lie/cheat/prevericate/decieve------SHE SEE'S HER LOVER EVERYDAY-----Believe me she sees him---duty, faculty meetings, lunch, school activities, etc---SO HE IS NOT OUT OF SIGHT AND OUT OF MIND

Why is it your wife is dressing like a 20's something---she wants to put on a show for the males at her school---if it were an all woman faculty she would be dressing conservatively, she is dressing for the males at her school---just ask your daughter SHE KNOWS

Why are you texting your wife's lover about anything----he is the man who messed with your wife---A MARRIED WOMAN---why would he tell YOU anything, or grant you anything---HE OWES YOU NOTHING

You keep telling us how wonderful, you are for coaching, and working out---WHO CARES---your wife certainly doesn't----if she did---you wouldn't be throwing 5 months worth of doubts at us----and going thru 5 months with a woman, WHO DOES NOT WANT TO COMMIT BACK TO YOU---NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU GROVEL

Your wife wasn't so much at odds with your schedule when she cheated---that was her F'ing JUSTIFICATION, for a boring same old, same old mge-----what has changed ---obviously not enuff---cuz you are not here telling us, that you are rocking her world, that she is yours 100%, that she had admitted to her infidelity, taken responsibility for it---IS DOING ALL THE HARD LIFTING TO GET BACK INTO THE FAMILY

Why do you think your oldest daughter is pi*sed at your wife---cuz she KNOWS what your wife is all about---and she doesn't like her very much at this point in time

You are just plain oblivious to all of this---all you can tell us is how you are so wonderful at working out, and coaching---and you will do anything to keep your family together, and how you and your wife cuddle, and are so nice and cozy----YOUR WIFE IS MOLLIFYING YOU---SHE IS KEEPING YOUR SUSPICIONS UNDER HER RADAR

Scoot let me tell you, your family is coming apart at the seams, you need to cool the workouts, and coaching, and do the necessary things to put your family back together---cuz if you don't you are gonna have a whole lot MORE time to workout, and coach


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## happyman64

Scoot

You are living a lie.

And being dedicated to your children does not make any healthy wife want to go out and bang another guy!

Your wife has to fix herself.

And if she still wants to have closure with the OM then she does not belong in the home, let alone, secure in the marriage.

She needs to grow up. And you are preventing that by shielding her from real consequences.

HM64


----------



## scoot162

happyman64 said:


> Scoot
> 
> You are living a lie.
> 
> And being dedicated to your children does not make any healthy wife want to go out and bang another guy!
> 
> Your wife has to fix herself.
> 
> And if she still wants to have closure with the OM then she does not belong in the home, let alone, secure in the marriage.
> 
> She needs to grow up. And you are preventing that by shielding her from real consequences.
> 
> HM64


We talked about separation tonight. I want to make it as easy on the children as possible. I would like for her to move out, she seems to be the one dragging her feet to be 100 percent into fixing our marriage. I know she has said she lost the love feeling for me, but we share too much together to not consider trying to make our marriage work. It may take years but I am willing to take the chance.


----------



## iheartlife

I am sorry to hear that update scoot. I would have liked to have heard that she was finally waking up to what she has. Even though, given her past history, I knew that wasn't likely.


----------



## warlock07

Have you confronted her about the trying to contact the OM? Do you think they are still in contact ?


----------



## freuding institute

what I see is the sex connection between has fired vasopressin, once that bond is there it hard to get rid of. begets the question can you rationalize with someone who is connected to the om? will she even hear you? can she find the will power to resist? these are questions that you must resolve. if you choose to continue.


----------



## JCD

scoot162 said:


> We talked about separation tonight. I want to make it as easy on the children as possible. I would like for her to move out, she seems to be the one dragging her feet to be 100 percent into fixing our marriage. I know she has said she lost the love feeling for me, but we share too much together to not consider trying to make our marriage work. It may take years but I am willing to take the chance.


This is not a very good choice in my opinion.


----------



## iheartlife

JCD said:


> This is not a very good choice in my opinion.


If you really want to reconcile, just be forewarned, separation will push you further apart. Disloyal spouses tend to take advantage of their "freedom" no matter how many promises they make to you about being faithful during separation. That said, it sounds like you are a thousand miles apart already, living in the same house.


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## Tall Average Guy

scoot162 said:


> If it was okay for my wife to focus on the children in the early stages of their lives, why now is it wrong for me to do the same?


Have you asked her this question? If so, what is her answer?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

scoot162 said:


> We talked about separation tonight. I want to make it as easy on the children as possible. I would like for her to move out, she seems to be the one dragging her feet to be 100 percent into fixing our marriage. I know she has said she lost the love feeling for me, but we share too much together to not consider trying to make our marriage work. It may take years but I am willing to take the chance.


Based on your actions, she knows you won't leave. So she has little fear that anything bad will happen as she continues in her current behavior.

Consider telling her that since she views the other man as more important than you (as evidenced by her decision to contact him again even though she agreed not to), you two need to discuss how the divorce will proceed. She needs to understand that she actually does risk losing you. 

Of course the difficulty is that you need to be willing to actually follow through. Unfortunately, I don't think you are there yet.


----------



## tom67

scoot162 said:


> I understand what you are saying and I found this out on my own. I really do not know how to approach her about this. Maybe just ask her if he had tried to contact her and then reverse the question.
> How could she be in love with a 20 something boy, she is in her 40's.? I am very wary and this type of action just sets me back. I don't trust her either and it hurts me so bad to say that!


You should tell the om fiance NOW before she marries this pos it's the right thing to do.


----------



## iheartlife

tom67 said:


> You should tell the om fiance NOW before she marries this pos it's the right thing to do.


I think they actually got married quite a while ago now (earlier this year, or maybe last year). They were engaged during the affair, and then at some point he married her. I think everyone just calls her the fiance because it's an easy way to remember her.

Poor thing! I really feel sorry for her. Marrying under those kind of false pretenses would be so devastating.


----------



## JCD

Tall Average Guy said:


> Based on your actions, she knows you won't leave. So she has little fear that anything bad will happen as she continues in her current behavior.
> 
> Consider telling her that since she views the other man as more important than you (as evidenced by her decision to contact him again even though she agreed not to), you two need to discuss how the divorce will proceed. She needs to understand that she actually does risk losing you.
> 
> Of course the difficulty is that you need to be willing to actually follow through. Unfortunately, I don't think you are there yet.


He isn't and he won't leave the kids.

So my advice will be totally contrarian. YOU scoot, have decided you are willing to live this life. You are not ready for confrontation or divorce. You aren't laying down and holding to boundaries with any consequences.

I say this nicely, but it's easy for your wife to view you with contempt as a result. But you don't seem willing to change those things in yourself and you aren't going (can't really) change HER.

So what do you do?

You are a passive aggressive guy and so your solution has to be passive aggressive as well.

Stop checking on her. Don't ask for her phone. Don't ask for her emails. Don't check anything. Don't ask where she will be from day to day. 

Volunteer for MORE time with your daughters. Get involved with a few hobbies for yourself as well. Your wife is filling up her free time. I think you should as well.

(This is the part where you will totally fail, but I bring this up anyway) You reign in the affection. No sex. No passionate kisses (if it helps, imagine what she was doing with her mouth today) Join a book club to read late into the night.

She wants her oil changed? No Problem!

She wants to have dinner with you? No Problem!

She has a list of chores? No problem!

(You seem to think you can maid her out of this. Good luck)

Be the perfect shell of a husband with no substance or passion.

This is a modified 180 in some ways. You seem big on keeping up appearances. This will allow you to do that.

If she wants to fix things, she is welcome to. But since you WON'T hold her accountable for anything, she has to do it herself.

And if, while dealing with the mere facade of a husband that she now has, she asks what happened...well, you KNOW what happened.

Don't help her fix things.

I don't think this will work, btw, but considering how you are acting, this is the best I can come up with.


----------



## Will_Kane

scoot162 said:


> We talked about separation tonight. I want to make it as easy on the children as possible. I would like for her to move out, she seems to be the one dragging her feet to be 100 percent into fixing our marriage. I know she has said she lost the love feeling for me, but we share too much together to not consider trying to make our marriage work. It may take years but I am willing to take the chance.


So she is the one pushing for separation?


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## arbitrator

Decorum said:


> Seperation is a cheaters sex vacation, at your expense!
> 
> Divorce is a cold shot of reality!


Even if the infidelity were present while the couple was still together, the act of separation only tends to open up the floodgates and often takes the betrayed half of the couple totally out the equation and cast into a position of knowing even less to nothing about the wayward spouses actions, and greatly to their satisfaction.

I regret to say that I lay sad witness to that!


----------



## Chaparral

Tall Average Guy said:


> Have you asked her this question? If so, what is her answer?


This isn't about the children, this is a red herring. This is about her boyfriend and why. She can make all the excuses she wants but it always comes down to a lack of character/morals.


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## Chaparral

JCD said:


> He isn't and he won't leave the kids.
> 
> So my advice will be totally contrarian. YOU scoot, have decided you are willing to live this life. You are not ready for confrontation or divorce. You aren't laying down and holding to boundaries with any consequences.
> 
> I say this nicely, but it's easy for your wife to view you with contempt as a result. But you don't seem willing to change those things in yourself and you aren't going (can't really) change HER.
> 
> So what do you do?
> 
> You are a passive aggressive guy and so your solution has to be passive aggressive as well.
> 
> Stop checking on her. Don't ask for her phone. Don't ask for her emails. Don't check anything. Don't ask where she will be from day to day.
> 
> Volunteer for MORE time with your daughters. Get involved with a few hobbies for yourself as well. Your wife is filling up her free time. I think you should as well.
> 
> (This is the part where you will totally fail, but I bring this up anyway) You reign in the affection. No sex. No passionate kisses (if it helps, imagine what she was doing with her mouth today) Join a book club to read late into the night.
> 
> She wants her oil changed? No Problem!
> 
> She wants to have dinner with you? No Problem!
> 
> She has a list of chores? No problem!
> 
> (You seem to think you can maid her out of this. Good luck)
> 
> Be the perfect shell of a husband with no substance or passion.
> 
> This is a modified 180 in some ways. You seem big on keeping up appearances. This will allow you to do that.
> 
> If she wants to fix things, she is welcome to. But since you WON'T hold her accountable for anything, she has to do it herself.
> 
> And if, while dealing with the mere facade of a husband that she now has, she asks what happened...well, you KNOW what happened.
> 
> Don't help her fix things.
> 
> I don't think this will work, btw, but considering how you are acting, this is the best I can come up with.


Can't get that image out of my mind........"Whoa babe, where has that mouth been?"


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## Chaparral

Seperation almost always ends in divorce. Look it up.


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## scoot162

Tall Average Guy said:


> Based on your actions, she knows you won't leave. So she has little fear that anything bad will happen as she continues in her current behavior.
> 
> Consider telling her that since she views the other man as more important than you (as evidenced by her decision to contact him again even though she agreed not to), you two need to discuss how the divorce will proceed. She needs to understand that she actually does risk losing you.
> 
> Of course the difficulty is that you need to be willing to actually follow through. Unfortunately, I don't think you are there yet.


Other man is out of the picture. I am not sure how much she is committed to saving the marriage. Some days seem like old times(passionate, considerate loving etc) and others she seems a million miles away. 
I am not ready to let her go, and tear the family apart. I am not sure she will miss me at all if we separate!


----------



## Will_Kane

scoot162 said:


> Other man is out of the picture. I am not sure how much she is committed to saving the marriage. Some days seem like old times(passionate, considerate loving etc) and others she seems a million miles away.
> I am not ready to let her go, and tear the family apart. I am not sure she will miss me at all if we separate!


Does she still talk about wanting to separate?


----------



## JCD

scoot162 said:


> Other man is out of the picture. I am not sure how much she is committed to saving the marriage. Some days seem like old times(passionate, considerate loving etc) and others she seems a million miles away.
> I am not ready to let her go, and tear the family apart. I am not sure she will miss me at all if we separate!


She isn't interested in you as you are now. She's had the strange and for a multitude of reasons, she doesn't want to go back to the old.

If nothing changes, she'll walk. You can only change yourself.

Ergo...


----------



## scoot162

Will_Kane said:


> Does she still talk about wanting to separate?


No she has not mentioned it since


----------



## Chaparral

Have you read MMSL or any of the other books recommended on this site?


----------



## AlphaHalf

The other man is not out of the picture. It may not be the previous AP, but its the thought of "being with/finding somebody" else who is NOT YOU. She doesn't feel for you the same way your feel for her. She has the upper hand because you will do anything to "make her happy" while putting up with her [email protected]#t and no real consequences for her actions. 

Nobody fears losing what they know they can easily get back. That's how your wife sees you. The "safe guy" who will always be there no matter what. All she has to say is a few "I'm confused, or I blame you's" and your right there there to eat it up because your the ultimate loving husband doormat. She is taking advantage of what she knows she can get away with because she knows you will let her. 
Some people live the good life for so long that slumming seems appealing and its the "spark" of whats missing in there life. But take away the safety net (YOU) and the reality/consequences of there actions might turn into TRUE remorse/regret and the appreciation of what they had. before.


----------



## scoot162

AlphaHalf said:


> The other man is not out of the picture. It may not be the previous AP, but its the thought of "being with/finding somebody" else who is NOT YOU. She doesn't feel for you the same way your feel for her. She has the upper hand because you will do anything to "make her happy" while putting up with her [email protected]#t and no real consequences for her actions.
> 
> Nobody fears losing what they know they can easily get back. That's how your wife sees you. The "safe guy" who will always be there no matter what. All she has to say is a few "I'm confused, or I blame you's" and your right there there to eat it up because your the ultimate loving husband doormat. She is taking advantage of what she knows she can get away with because she knows you will let her.
> Some people live the good life for so long that slumming seems appealing and its the "spark" of whats missing in there life. But take away the safety net (YOU) and the reality/consequences of there actions might turn into TRUE remorse/regret and the appreciation of what they had. before.


Why is it so difficult for me to let her go? My personality works against me in that I am a very caring loving person. I do at times feel taken advantage of but I always seem to think of all the wonderful times we had together and my family bond to help me keep on track. This seems to be working against me as so mAny have suggested.
This situation is so difficult with children and the affects this would have on them if we would split. I hear and read horror stories how it affects them mentally for the rest of their lives. 
I keep hearing on how I must man up and be tough with her but this is easier said then done. I know she does not love me as she once did, and I don't know if she will ever will but we are very close being together for 25 years and have two beautiful daughters. I see things when I am out and take notice to other couples and question what she is missing with me. I am a gentleman, good husband and good father. Pretty much I live for my family and have always made them my top priority.
I do know she will regret it if we split as I do love her and take care of her in so many ways. I did get off track the past few years focusing primarily on my children and not enough on our marriage. I failed to provide her with the emotional needs she required. Everything else seemed to be met and taken care of.


----------



## happyman64

scoot162 said:


> *I failed to provide her with the emotional needs she required. Everything else seemed to be met and taken care of*.


And that is why you will fail Scoot. Because you think you are 100% to blame for her going out, having an affair and screwing someone else.

If you do not change your attitude she will go out and do it again because she knows she can get away with it. She will blame you again.

Your wife is selfish. That is why she chose to screw someone else. She could have communicated to you. She could have threatened you. She could have separated or divorced you.

Instead she chose to cheat, lie.

And if you do not change your ways and demand better from her you will not get the love, respect that you are looking for.

I have texted you before. I have 3 girls Scoot. One in college, all in private school. I work my butt off. My wife works part time.

We live for our children. We work for our children. They are our common goal. My wife never complains about not taking vacations. We have not been away together or as a family in over 10 years. We sacrifice so we can give them the best education and life experiences.

We communicate and have the same goals as well as boundaries.

And we both know the consequences if we ever broke those boundaries.

So stop being broken hearted. Stop being a doormat. Take control of your life. Your life is not your wife. Your life is your family.

If you and your wife do not have the same goals then it is time to make changes so you can be happy again. 

Think about it.

HM64


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## jim123

You just need to start loving yourself. If your marriage was important you would have stood up for it and threw her out. If you wife was important you would have not accepted her with someone else. That is the message you send when you act the way you did.

The kids will be fine. File D and start moving on.

She does not need to change because you are not going to do anything. It is all about actions and you have not taken any.


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## Chaparral

chapparal said:


> Have you read MMSL or any of the other books recommended on this site?




*Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!*


----------



## Chaparral

If you will just read MMSL you will get it.


----------



## walkonmars

Scoot, I think this is my first post to you. Yours was one of the first posts I read when I joined TAM. I've kept abreast of it. 

Not to be offensive, so please take this in the spirit it is offered. 

I first sympathized with you. Your devotion to your children is exemplary. But as I came to understand the way you interact with your wife I came to the conclusion to put it bluntly she sees you as an annoying child. Whining, threatening, etc. Totally and completely. 

Do you remember ever hearing this? (because it really applies to you)

_"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things."_

Put away the childlike attitude you have. Become a man. For yourself. For your children.


----------



## carmen ohio

scoot162 said:


> Why is it so difficult for me to let her go? My personality works against me in that I am a very caring loving person. I do at times feel taken advantage of but I always seem to think of all the wonderful times we had together and my family bond to help me keep on track. This seems to be working against me as so mAny have suggested.
> This situation is so difficult with children and the affects this would have on them if we would split. I hear and read horror stories how it affects them mentally for the rest of their lives.
> I keep hearing on how I must man up and be tough with her but this is easier said then done. I know she does not love me as she once did, and I don't know if she will ever will but we are very close being together for 25 years and have two beautiful daughters. I see things when I am out and take notice to other couples and question what she is missing with me. I am a gentleman, good husband and good father. Pretty much I live for my family and have always made them my top priority.
> I do know she will regret it if we split as I do love her and take care of her in so many ways. I did get off track the past few years focusing primarily on my children and not enough on our marriage. I failed to provide her with the emotional needs she required. Everything else seemed to be met and taken care of.


Dear scoot162,

You sound like a hopeless case. Others have repeatedly told you what you need to do if you are to have any chance of saving your marriage but you seem either not to understand or not to willing to do it. This is sad because it is clear to just about everybody following this thread that (1) the man you are right now is not the man your wife wants and (2) unless you can become that man, you will eventually lose her for good.

I went back and reread all of your previous posts and what jumped out at me is that you apparently have learned nothing at all from this experience. On August 17 you wrote, _"I love my wife more than anything in the world and cannot imagine life without her."_ On November 21 you wrote, _"I deserve my wife back, i can't imagine a life without her."_ Today you wrote, _"Why is it so difficult for me to let her go?"_ When are you going to realize that, until you can imagine a life without her and let her know that that is what she faces if she doesn't get over the OM and start doing her part to fix her marriage, you will never have the kind of marriage you want and deserve?

Here's another example. On August 20 you wrote, _"It is not my nature to be uncaring or not compassionate but it is now time for some toughness! I tried to be sympathetic and understanding of her needs after the a went down, but I got no where!"_ Today you wrote, _"My personality works against me in that I am a very caring loving person. I do at times feel taken advantage of but I always seem to think of all the wonderful times we had together and my family bond to help me keep on track. This seems to be working against me as so mAny have suggested."_ You keep playing the "caring and loving" card and it keeps getting you no where. One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting to eventually get a different result. You're not crazy, are you?

Perhaps worst of all, you continue to blame yourself for her infidelity and think that you can somehow change her. There are too many examples of this kind of thinking in your posts to even bother pointing them out. When are you going to accept the fact that she chose to be (and probably is still being) unfaithful and that, until she chooses to try to fix her marriage, there is nothing more that you can do?

Unless and until you accept that it's not your fault that your wife strayed and begin to believe that you can live without her, you are doomed to a life of pain and misery. If you can't get that through your head and do something about it, then frankly you deserve what you get. You don't appear to be mentally retarded or to suffer from some debilitating mental illness. There's no law that prevents you from acting in your own self interest. So what's your excuse?

My guess is that, deep down, you actually prefer living like this. By pretending it's all your fault and that you can somehow fix your wife if you continue to be an all-loving martyr of a doormat, you relieve yourself of the responsibility of taking real action. You would rather live in the "comfort" of the present, no matter how bad it may be, than confront the uncertainty of a different future. To put it bluntly, you are probably just afraid to do what you know you should. How sad.

What you need to do now is obvious. Sit your wife down and say you've had it with all her bullsh1t. Tell her that you've finally realized that she will never again be the loving wife that she was and that you deserve. Tell her you're going to file for divorce and you just hope that the two of you can work out an amicable settlement for the sake of your daughter. Then, ignore what she says back to you and start the divorce proceedings.

If you do this, one of two things will happen. You will either awaken her from her lovelorn stupor and back into reality so that the two of you can begin to rebuild your marriage, or you will learn once and for all that your marriage will never be anything other than a sham. After that, you can decide what you want. If you really can't bear the thought of leaving a woman who no longer wants you, you can call off the divorce and resign yourself to a life of misery (that is, until the day when she's finally had enough and leaves you). Or you can start to make a life for yourself that is worthy of the name.

You seem like a really great guy. So I don't say these things to be mean and, in truth, I'm not telling you anything that many others have not told you over and over again. My hope is that, by stating them in the most stark and harsh terms possible, you will finally wake up to reality and dramatically change the way you deal with your faithless wife.

Based on everything you've said and done so far, I'm guessing that you won't be able to do this. But because I know you deserve a better life, I'm hoping you prove me wrong.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Scoot

Back in August (post 42) I said the following to you.



> It is not your job to mend her broken soul because you are not capable.
> 
> You are crushed and need to get yourself in a better condition so that you can be better for you, and your children


I read a few more of your posts after that and then stopped reading because you are in a fog.

I just dropped in to day to read that last pages and I read your statement of 



> *Why is it so difficult for me to let her go?*


*Why? Because you are weak, fearful and/or still in a fog or a cop out*


I am going to save my self some typing and just quote some truths by the last poster Carmen-Ohio that hits the nail right on the head



> *By Carmen Ohio*
> You keep playing the "caring and loving" card and it keeps getting you no where. One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting to eventually get a different result. You're not crazy, are you?
> 
> 
> My guess is that, deep down, you actually prefer living like this. By pretending it's all your fault and that you can somehow fix your wife if you continue to be an all-loving martyr of a doormat, you relieve yourself of the responsibility of taking real action. You would rather live in the "comfort" of the present, no matter how bad it may be, than confront the uncertainty of a different future. To put it bluntly, you are probably just afraid to do what you know you should. How sad.
> 
> If you do this, one of two things will happen. You will either awaken her from her lovelorn stupor and back into reality so that the two of you can begin to rebuild your marriage, or you will learn once and for all that your marriage will never be anything other than a sham



Your thread has over 350 posts and most of them say the same things and are right on. You ignore them by failing t do most of them and continue down your path to being a door mat that your wife will never respect.

*You can tell us again and again how much you love your wife, care for your children, and have a caring and loving nature, and all the rest but that will be spoiled if you have no self-respect, no courage, no strength, and no action.*


----------



## JCD

Another guy who is here for moral support but not advice. What ever happened to the 'fix it' attitude of men? When did they become chicks?

What you are doing isn't working. Consider this carefully._Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

He doesn't want to fix it. He just wants to be able to say "oh woe is me" and try to garner sympathy from others. Women want strong men that can protect them when needed. Not men who couldn't protect a Twinkie in a kindergarten classroom.

Scoot, you want to know what you aren't giving your wife? What she needs that you aren't providing? Here's what it is. You aren't someone she can respect and look up to. You cannot be the one she can turn to when she needs a real man. You act more like a woman than you do a man and your wife is not a lesbian. You aren't a gentleman, you are a gentle man....and a doormat. I'm sorry if you find that harsh but since you obviously have no backbone I'm not worried in the least.


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## Mr Blunt

> *Quote of bfree*
> He doesn't want to fix it. He just wants to be able to say "oh woe is me" and try to garner sympathy from others. Women want strong men that can protect them when needed. Not men who couldn't protect a Twinkie in a kindergarten classroom.
> 
> Scoot, you want to know what you aren't giving your wife? What she needs that you aren't providing? Here's what it is. You aren't someone she can respect and look up to. You cannot be the one she can turn to when she needs a real man. You act more like a woman than you do a man and your wife is not a lesbian. You aren't a gentleman, you are a gentle man....and a doormat. I'm sorry if you find that harsh but since you obviously have no backbone so I'm not worried in the least.







> He doesn't want to fix it. He just wants to be able to say "oh woe is me" and try to garner sympathy from others.


*Good one bfree!*

I only have one comment
In Scoots case, when you say that Scoot is acting like a woman or lesbian, that maybe an insult to them. I have seen women and lesbians have a lot more cajones and backbone than Scoot.

I know what you are saying bfree but Scoot is in a class by himself (nothing between the legs)


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## bfree

Mr Blunt said:


> *Good one bfree!*
> 
> I only have one comment
> In Scoots case, when you say that Scoot is acting like a woman or lesbian, that maybe an insult to them. I have seen women and lesbians have a lot more cajones and backbone than Scoot.
> 
> I know what you are saying bfree but Scoot is in a class by himself (nothing between the legs)


You know how I know these things about Scoot. Because I was Scoot in my first marriage (although not nearly as bad as him). I had to grow up and find my [email protected] And I did. Years later I am married to a wonderful woman. But if she ever did anything to disrespect me or my marriage she knows I would not stand for it. In turn I am a strong man and someone she can and does respect. The first thing Scoot needs to understand is everything he has been told is a lie. Women don't want a man that is in touch with his feelings. Women don't want a man that thinks rather than acts. Women don't want a man that will do what they tell him to do. Women want a MAN! He is not.


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## warlock07

> My personality works against me in that I am a very caring loving person.


Care for your heart then


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## AlphaHalf

You choose to be lied too, disrespected and taken advantage of. So there is no more advice anyone can help you with. Take care.


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## warlock07

I wouldn't be surprised if there is still contact between W and OM once in a while . I only hope your decision to not expose to to OM's fiance did not play a part in this.


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## scoot162

warlock07 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if there is still contact between W and OM once in a while . I only hope your decision to not expose to to OM's fiance did not play a part in this.


I want her back but I am tired of begging and pleading. I can't take back the hurt I caused her, I can only go forward. She too must move forward and if her unwillingness to do so is holding her back, then a life without me is inevidible.
I don't know if my decision tell the fiancé was the correct one but it was my decision and I will live with it.
Thank you for all your posts and continued support.


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## Malaise

scoot162 said:


> I want her back but I am tired of begging and pleading. I can't take back the hurt I caused her, I can only go forward. She too must move forward and if her unwillingness to do so is holding her back, then a life without me is inevidible.
> *I don't know if my decision tell the fiancé was the correct one but it was my decision and I will live with it.*
> Thank you for all your posts and continued support.


This ,IMO, was a major league mistake. By not exposing you let OM have all the freedom to pursue your wife and not have to worry about his fiancee.

If he wanted to be with his fiancee he would have had to jetison your W just for damage control.

You allowed him to have both women.

In effect, you rewarded his behavior by not giving him consequences. He probably gave a big sigh of relief when he realized that you were not pulling the trigger on exposre.

Non nexposure only prolongs the affair.


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## Chaparral

I'm curious and do not want to go back through this thread. Did you read MMSL and not see what women want and why your wife was looking for another man to fullfil those needs? What was your take on that book?

Every male poster that comes here usually reads this book and is helped a lot. Its confusing that you still have no idea what has happened to you.


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## walkonmars

Sorry you've endured so much pain. But as the saying goes "every dark cloud etc". The silver lining to your life these past months, as documented on this thread, can be an invaluable asset. It can serve as a "consequences for inaction" warning to newly betrayed. 

They, like you, are so often afraid of making things worse by enacting principles that seem scary but are effective in most cases. By reading how 'playing nice' turns out it can be an eye opener and a spur to action. 

Again sorry for your plight. It was not of your making but your ineffective inaction amounted to tacit approval, granted you had a 'scowl' on your face - but nonetheless it was approval.


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## JCD

walkonmars said:


> Sorry you've endured so much pain. But as the saying goes "every dark cloud etc". The silver lining to your life these past months, as documented on this thread, can be an invaluable asset. It can serve as a "consequences for inaction" warning to newly betrayed.
> 
> They, like you, are so often afraid of making things worse by enacting principles that seem scary but are effective in most cases. By reading how 'playing nice' turns out it can be an eye opener and a spur to action.
> 
> Again sorry for your plight. It was not of your making but your ineffective inaction amounted to tacit approval, granted you had a 'scowl' on your face - but nonetheless it was approval.


As I say to my kids: everyone is an example. Some are good examples, some are bad examples.

For the former I have edubs thread. For the later...


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## Shadow_Nirvana

Hey I just registered after reading your complete post to just a write a word in here.

Here's how it is. Okay, maybe you were the ****tiest husband of the year for the last 10 years and the blame of most of your marriage problems lies with you(which I highly doubt is the case.) Your wife has %100 responsibility of the affair. But , what is truly effed up about this, is you are the person to blame for not manning up and takin this whole affair thing head on.

Here's what has been offered to you:
*-You hold your wife accountable*: Instead you went around, moping, telling everybody who listened that you screwed up your marriage by not giving her the attention she needed, then you went about giving her more attention than ever. The message your wife got was that you were a terrible husband and you didn't deserve her anyhow. Those are the things you do after the affair fog has gone and you have reconciled fully and settled and she is remorseful and repentant.

*-You file for D*: Instead you went around telling everybody who cared that you wanted to save this marriage, leaving your wife with the question "Do I want to save this marriage?" And she has been in MLC and affair fog so she answered "NO". It should have been you who was asking that question and answering "no", while she should have been the one trying to get you back into the marriage.

*-You push for NC*: You didn't. Your wife is an addict. You basically gave an addict free access to a drug. Do you know why former alcoholics never go to bars, even though they will do their best not to drink: They don't want to get caught in the addiction once again. They don't want to ask themselves " Hey, what bad can one glass of beer do?" because they understand that the next step is lying in the gutters, inebriated out of their mind. Your wife, as she is still in MLC and affair fog, doesn't see that, she truly doesn't see the consequences(maybe it's because you gave her none) And you went contacting the drug dealer, asking him if he has given your wife his potent drug syringe once again. WOW.

*-You expose the affair to the OMW*:You didn't. You basically threw away another set of eyes that could have been watching the affair closely. And you let another person marry a cheater, unknowingly. You took her right of choice away from her. You, sir, are an apathetic and awful human being. And the sin they have committed against this woman is now on your hands, too. You are an accomplice.

*-You expose the affair to your children*: You didn't. But they know something is wrong. And you are trying to shield them from the truth, thinking they can't handle it. Instead you should be telling them the truth in a way that they can handle. That it isn't okay for their mother to have a bf but she has so that's why your marriage is on the rocks.

*-You read the books you have been advised to and learn what really makes a woman's juices flow* : Again you didn't. You tried to go at it your own way, which had failed you the first time. And it is failing you now.

I can see that 25 pages of posts from other members, from people who have been through this stuff before, have not put a dent through your thick skull. You are as stubborn as ever. 

You are not a nice guy or a gentleman. You are a "Nice Guy" and a "Gentle Man". You are a conflict avoider and you don't want to save your marriage, you just want to stay in your comfort zone. You aren't willing to initiate anything that might save your marriage. Your wife maybe narcissistic and selfish, but you are no better. You may be the person who is like a superhero physically, but you are just a lazy slob mentally who won't lift a finger to do the right thing if it means getting out of your comfort zone. And I feel sorry for all the people who have wasted time here trying to turn you around. I will be watching this thread closely, because the inevitable divorce(initiated by your wife of course) and your crumbling to pieces.(boo hoo, how could she do this to me after 25 years of marriage, boo hoo.)

I have even started to think that you are either a troll or a cheater who is trying get the advice givers sick of helping other BS's.


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## bigtone128

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Hey I just registered after reading your complete post to just a write a word in here.
> 
> *Your wife has %100 responsibility of the affair.* But , what is truly effed up about this, is *you are the person to blame for not manning up and takin this whole affair thing head on.*
> 
> Here's what has been offered to you:
> *-You hold your wife accountable*: Instead you went around, moping, telling everybody who listened that you screwed up your marriage by not giving her the attention she needed, then* you went about giving her more attention than ever. *The message your wife got was that you were a terrible husband and you didn't deserve her anyhow. *Those are the things you do after the affair fog has gone and you have reconciled fully and settled and she is remorseful and repentant.*
> 
> *-You file for D*: Instead you went around telling everybody who cared that you wanted to save this marriage, leaving your wife with the question "Do I want to save this marriage?" *And she has been in MLC and affair fog so she answered "NO".* It should have been you who was asking that question and answering "no", while she should have been the one trying to get you back into the marriage.
> 
> Your wife, as she is still in MLC and affair fog, doesn't see that, she truly doesn't see the consequences(maybe it's because you gave her none)
> 
> *-You expose the affair to your children*: You didn't. But they know something is wrong. And you are trying to shield them from the truth, thinking they can't handle it. Instead you should be telling them the truth in a way that they can handle. That it isn't okay for their mother to have a bf but she has so that's why your marriage is on the rocks.
> 
> I have even started to think that you are either a troll or a cheater who is trying get the advice givers sick of helping other BS's.


Harsh advice but true Scoot.........I never knew what was happening with my ex but here you go....
When she had her EA with my best friend - she never looked at herself - she came back and demanded I change to meet her needs - she said I never told her she was good-looking. So I made a point of everyday saying how good she looked and you know what? She left because she thought she was so hot that she was too good for me..understand? You are not going to win until she desires you.....I responded to your thread probably 28 pages ago and gave up b/c you would not listen to advice here. It seems wrong but trust me it is right. it is like people who have affairs have low functioning reasoning and cannot see forrest for the trees....it is your job to help them see the forrest...I knew you'd end up here....you probably would have anyway but you didnt help yourself.


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## sandc

scoot I've mostly been lurking on this thread but I see after all these pages you still are not taking any advice I am therefor bowing out of this thread I wish you luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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