# Dealing with an EA and a PA



## NightOwl (Sep 28, 2009)

Hi there. First I just want to thank everyone for being so candid on this forum, I have felt much more reassured that my feelings are valid and normal reading your experiences.

So here's my situation: I have been with my partner for just over 5 years. In the last year things started to slide - first us harmlessly falling into a routine, then drifting apart, then issues from his past started catching up with him. Add in some financial catastrophes and he ended up having a breakdown of sorts. He had an EA that started in the winter and ended in early summer (after it wasn't reciprocated on her end), then had another EA that turned physical and lasted about 3 months. It ended 2 weeks ago, and we have agreed to try to reconcile.

I guess I have in my head a stereotype of what an affair is, and what purpose it serves for the cheater, and what my partner did does not fit that mold. I think of men seeking a "hot young thing" mostly for sex and escapist fun - secret weekend trips to Vegas, that sort of thing. But in this case, he was seeking friendship, and the OW has a long history of predatory behavior towards men in relationships and seized on his vulnerability. She probably has borderline personality disorder and a mood disorder and it makes her volatile and controlling. I describe it as, she set the trap but he chose to walk into it. What I don't get is that he basically treated her as Me Version 2.0 - tried to take her to the same places (restaurants, favorite little stores) we'd go to, planned trips to the same places we'd visited. He discussed with her our own plans for buying multi family property as a retirement strategy (!). They were exchanging "I love you's" within weeks. It was like full speed ahead, picking up where our life left off with this person he barely knew...what hurts most is that he realized he does want to have kids (we've been undecided) but he told *her* about it first and they talked about planning a family. I feel so sad to be left out of a life decision like that. 

After a lot of talking we realized (from his behavior and own admission) that what he really wanted was our relationship circa 1-2 years ago, and that he was trying to fit the OW into that mold. He also says he was not looking for something physical, she initiated that and he had to be intoxicated every time to go through with it. Despite this, the images of them together I have in my head are what taunts me most about the situation.

So, I am trying to wrap my head around this...he pins all his relationship hopes and dreams on a crazy woman, then realizes his mistake and comes running back to me...except the damage is already done, he's already strayed and betrayed those dreams by sharing them with her.

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone's experience has been similar, having their partner build an elaborate fantasy life with someone else like this? 

The other thing - and this is petty, I know - is that I feel I am much more physically attractive than the OW and it bothers me that my partner went for her. She is average/cute but has put on about 40 lbs. in the past year (she was slightly overweight to begin with), while I have lost 60 lbs. recently going from a size 16 to a 6/8 and have actually started modeling as a hobby. I don't know why this bothers me so much, except that I feel like I am better than her as both a person and a physical mate, and it bothers me that he "traded down" so to speak. I feel like if it was Christy Turlington maybe I wouldn't take it so personally, I don't know.


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## frozensprouts (Aug 1, 2009)

I'm so sorry NightOwl for what you have gone through. My husband did something somewhat similar ( in someways), and to be honest, I don't think I'll ever understand why he did it, and maybe he never will either. 
I know that I can't blame the "other woman' completely for what happened, but there does seem to be some women ( and men too) out there who almost seem to get a a charge out of finding married men/women who are in a vulnerable state, zeroing in on them, and getting them to break their marriage vows. ( maybe they get a self esteem bost from it, I don't know). Maybe she is one of those types of women who somehow knows the right things to say to a guy who's vulnerable to catch his interest. It doesn't sound like it was a "one night stand' type of thing- there was intent on both their parts.
I often wonder what would happen if the spouses/partners who were betrayed had the legal right to sue " the other man/woman" in this type of situation for the pain and suffering they intentionally caused. would that make some people stop and think before they acted? maybe, maybe not.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I have to suspect that the reason it hurts when a SO (you don't say husband, you say partner -- not married?) goes for someone less attractive is that it strongly points to something being wrong with what you gave them rather than that they were just so intoxicated with lust that they gave in. They strayed for the relationship, not for "just the sex."

OTOH, this guy says he had to be drunk to have sex with her... Uh huh. He may have needed it to deal with his guilt, but he still did it, more than once, right? He's not the victim here in any way, shape or form.

Since your guy is a serial cheater, I'm not sure why you want to keep trying. If this is the way he copes with problems, don't you think that life will probably offer more problems sometime down the road? And don't you think that he'll revert to his old standby coping mechanism?


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## Gomez (Jun 5, 2009)

Ok if you dont want to hear about how I formed my opinions skip to the last 2 paragraphs, I am terribly long winded.

I know the feeling of being "traded down", it is exactly how I felt when my wife had her EA going. The OM was a leech, divorced, and only interested in sex. She knew all this from the start but still found him attractive enough to want to give it up for him.

He was a crush from my wifes childhood, the older brother of her best friend who had never really looked at her before, and they just happened to meet when he was back in town for his parents anniversary party. We were in a bad spot in our marriage, I was absorbed in an online game and my wife wanted to escape the grind of being a mom and wife and be interested and excited about something again. Although nothing happened the night they met back up, the did exchange info and started talking and texting each other and my wife soon developed a fantasy that I would be ok with her relationship going physical with him if she would be ok with my gaming and let me have my own fling if I so desired. She did not mention him spicifically at first but I knew that she would never make a proposition like that without someone in mind, and I saw how she lit up when she was communicating with him. 

I thought he was a fat lumberjack looking hick looser and if I was gonna share my wife with someone it sure as hell wouldn't be him, but after I thought about it there were many reasons why she wanted him: I was not treating her like she deserved to be my wife, I was treating her like she deserved someone like him and she should be greateful to me that I let her be with me; he was interested in her interest, flirting and sex, while I had gotten to the point of treating sex as a chore to be gotten over with so I could get back to my interests, even though the sex was the best ever for both of us all the time, I felt like I did all the work and had to work for my orgasim while she got to just lay back and get it done to her; and he fit into a fantasy of hers, the older guy who was kind to her when she was young but noticed her in a whole new way once she had grown. The fact that he was such a looser was one of the things that I think attracted her to him, she could tell herself that there was no emotional connection, it could be just sex, an occasional fu~k buddy, and she would never really leave me for him. That part turned out to be a lie that became obvious when she finially called it off, he didn't even bother to text her back, and that showed her that he was only acting like he was interested in her to get in her pants, and that hurt her. I knew that's what the situation was from the beginning, but I couldn't tell her that because she was too high on infatuation. Also the fact that he was so messed up already that he was the perfect person to get messed up with, especially because she felt like she was a messed up kind of girl.

I attribute three things to saving our relationship, communication, time, and commitment. She talked to me about him, about how she felt about him, usually with her charectoristic devistating bluntness. Once we started talking about having sex with other people I knew we were at a breaking point and if I handled this situation too fast or incorrectly that is would mean the end of our relationship. Had I agreed to indulge our fantasies I would have left her, I could never convince myself that would not be the case, and that put thoughts of revenge out of my head. Because of the distance between them I had time to let the infatuation burn itself out, and I took that time to turn myself around. I am honest about my own faults because I changed my life and attitudes around because of this incedent. I never tried to attack her feelings for him directly because I thought that I might chase him away only for her to find someone closer to be the target of her interest. I had to become the target of her interest just like I had when we first met or this problem would never really be fixed. So I indulged her, I gave her all the attention, affection and connection that I could and still keep the bills paid. I quit my online game, I did any housework left to be done after I got home from work, I took her out shopping for new clothes so she could be comfortable and look and feel good, I took her out on dates again, and when she talked to me I ignored everything else and focused on her, I tried to learn to let her communicate with me without me trying to solve everything for her. She didn't believe it at first, then she thought it would go back to the way it was after a while, and finially she understood what a wonderful thing we have together and what it takes the keep it going, and how close we came to giving it all up. It was a permanent change for both of us, and looking back I think the whole affair generated enough energy to move our relationship up to a new level, like a new quantum state, that we had never knew existed. We are not just married now, we are married with the ability to work through anything together because we have already conquered the most fundamental challenge.

Nightowl, self improvement is a good thing but if it puts distance between you and your SO because he is not self-improving as well it could perversely be a recipe for relationship disaster. If he cant see where he fits into your life or where you fit into his then he will seek out something that he feels does fit. From what you say it sounds like he wants the future you have planned together, but is afraid that you will move on without him and leave him noone to share that fantasy with. The more men try to live like they are Secure and unemotional the more they are compensating for deep down being insecure and very emotional, but because most men never learn how to express or even recognize these deep feelings they act on them subconciously, and the more they try to control and suppress themselves the more power they give to what they deny. 

I have no idea how to make your man crack and tell you what is really on his mind, other than letting him know that you are safe, interested, and full of love for the real fallible person that he is. Try to give him the three things that saved me; communication, time and commitment.


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## NightOwl (Sep 28, 2009)

dobo said:


> Since your guy is a serial cheater, I'm not sure why you want to keep trying. If this is the way he copes with problems, don't you think that life will probably offer more problems sometime down the road? And don't you think that he'll revert to his old standby coping mechanism?


This is a good question and one that we've addressed together. First of all, we have been through a lot of low points as a couple (mainly due to layoffs), and he has never used this as a coping mechanism before (or in any prior relationship for that matter). The first EA, he was not fully aware that it had gotten inappropriate, in his mind it was a friendship turned business relationship that went sour. To be fair it was not an overtly obvious EA, just him spending too much time confiding in another person, but it laid down the patterns for the later more involved EA/PA.

I think that the affair happened because there was a lot more going on than there'd ever been before - illness in his family, financial disasters, medical issues of his own, and my job became very high stress over the summer so I was "checked out" in many ways. It was a unique set of circumstances but despite that one of my first thoughts was, what if it gets even harder in the future?

I think what makes me want to work on the relationship is that we've uncovered a LOT of issues he's been carrying around - literally 20 years worth of baggage, guilt, misguided attitudes about relationships, etc. He hid it all from me the whole time because he'd been hiding it his whole life. Now everything is coming out in the open and things are making a lot more sense. Given all those factors, it was only a matter of time before he had some sort of breakdown, and I am just grateful it wasn't gambling or drugs or something harder to walk away from. I mean, I am not happy that I was hurt obviously, but it could have been something that killed him. 

I am confident that there is a good, if damaged, person at his core. If he can work on the damage he can be a good person again. He has put a LOT of work in in the past two weeks, we both have, and I believe his remorse is genuine. 

Besides, if he ever did it again, I would kill him. I'm not even kidding. Severely maim at a minimum.


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## NightOwl (Sep 28, 2009)

Gomez said:


> I know the feeling of being "traded down", it is exactly how I felt when my wife had her EA going. The OM was a leech, divorced, and only interested in sex. She knew all this from the start but still found him attractive enough to want to give it up for him.
> 
> I thought he was a fat lumberjack looking hick looser and if I was gonna share my wife with someone it sure as hell wouldn't be him


Glad I'm not the only one! The OW in my case looks like a potato! She piles on the accessories (glasses, hats, etc. kinda like Mrs. Potato Head) but without all that on she's just kind of...lumpy looking. I know it's petty but Jesus Christ, at least I don't look like a vegetable...



Gomez said:


> I have no idea how to make your man crack and tell you what is really on his mind, other than letting him know that you are safe, interested, and full of love for the real fallible person that he is. Try to give him the three things that saved me; communication, time and commitment.


I feel like he has been an egg cracking open the past two weeks. Before this I never saw him cry more than maybe one tear and he has bawled his eyes out so many times, literally every day. I had no idea that he had issues and hangups going back 20 years that still affect him. Hell, *he* wasn't aware that it still affected him because he kept it buried. It all came to the surface because of the stress in the past few months.

We saw our therapist yesterday and she seemed positive, telling us we were handling the situation maturely. We have a lot of issues to work through but I have learned more about him in the past two weeks than I think I did in the prior five years of the relationship.


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## blindsided (Nov 29, 2008)

Night Owl -

Your comments about the OW are very similar to the way I felt...she was a plain Jane, slightly pudgy, nothing special. Despite the fact she was 15 years younger than me, I just didn't see the attraction........and that's precisely the point you are missing. Affairs aren't always about a sexy younger person to have sex with. Most affairs start because the cheating spouse is looking for something that is missing in their marriage/relationship. The very fact that he talks about having to drink to have sex with her is a good indicator here. 

My husband's affair was a wake-up call for both of us. I had no earthly idea that he felt "left out" of my life, the kids' lives, etc. You could have knocked me over with a feather. He works long hours, always has, and so I have always had to take care of everything myself...and I got used to that. Little did I know he still needed me to rely on him, to keep him in the family loop. 

So, while I understand your point about the less-than-attractive OW, you might want to consider this (trust me, I have). If the affair had been with a drop-dead georgeous, long-legged busty younger woman.........would you REALLY feel better? Nope. It hurts either way, but there IS a light at the end of the tunnel, if you are both willing to travel there together.


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