# Crib showdown



## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi all,
My wife and I have been butting horns on the crib issue.
Our daughter is 8 months and insists on sleeping in our bed. 
I told her from the start not to let her sleep with us or this would be a problem, but she didn't listen.

We've tried the method of letting her cry and checking on her once in a while. the trouble with that method is that she isnt even close to allowing herself to fall asleep. When I go in to check on her, she's standing up screaming her head off.

Last night i spent 2 hours getting her to sleep in her crib - but every time I walked away she would hear ANY noise at all and wake up and start screaming again.
it was so frustrating.

After my 2 hours of work, I woke my wife up frustrated and she promptly got into the crib with her and put her to sleep.
that made me mad because I knew she was undoing all the progress I just made.

By then it was 2 am. 2 in the morning and still fighting to get a baby to sleep is ridiculous to me.
well, she woke up screaming at 2:40.

Instead of trying to get her to go back to sleep in her crib, she took her downstairs and slept on the couch with her.

She seems to think that she can sleep with us as long as she likes and that letting her cry is cruel.

Then again, her mom insists on all her kids living in the same house with her or in the house next door for their entire lives, so that is where she gets it from.

I don't know what the next step is. 
She wants to put the crib in our bedroom, but I know she will just see us there and stand there screaming until my wife picks her up. 

Is there any better way to get her to sleep in her crib?
and please don't say a pillow case that smells like us or a warm towel. please!
this girl screams bloody murder when we leave her room EVERY TIME. a towel isn't going to help. I need a real solution before I go nuts.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

A trick I've seen on supernanny - is you put her in her bed and then you sit in the floor where she can see you but you don't make eye contact or speak to her - doing either just prolongs the issue as they are getting what they want - attention from you. This usually takes several hours the first night and then shorter over the next few - its not a one night deal. Believe me - it will be easier now when she can't get out of the bed to come find you.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You are talking about an 8 month old baby. Th baby is VERY attached to you, the parents to sooth and protect, and comfort.

You may have not made a darn bit of "progress" as you put it at all. Too soon in development.

Don't play out annoyance with your in-laws in a battle of "right way" to raise the baby with your wife. You will not win, especially if you have nothing to back up your theory of what is right for the baby but on your lack of sleep.

Not knocking the need for sleep. Just maybe your new parenting skills are something you two are learning, not expert at.


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## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

michzz said:


> You are talking about an 8 month old baby. Th baby is VERY attached to you, the parents to sooth and protect, and comfort.
> 
> You may have not made a darn bit of "progress" as you put it at all. Too soon in development.
> 
> ...



So i take it you are on the side of 'let the baby sleep with the parents as long as the baby wants to', right?
I really can't buy into that theory.

You would argue that there are negative effects of putting a baby in it's own crib and allowing him/her to cry during the adjustment period. ...And I counter that there are negative effects to letting the baby sleep in our bed forever too.

Look at my in-laws as just one example. Full grown adults so afraid of the world that they can't move away from their parents any further than to the house next door.
That isn't normal to me.

Is it to you?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Meriter said:


> So i take it you are on the side of 'let the baby sleep with the parents as long as the baby wants to', right?
> I really can't buy into that theory.
> 
> You would argue that there are negative effects of putting a baby in it's own crib and allowing him/her to cry during the adjustment period. ...And I counter that there are negative effects to letting the baby sleep in our bed forever too.
> ...


Reread what I wrote. There are far more options besides sleep in your bed and crib in other room/crying kid.

Investigate development stages and infant attachment. 

Your lack of sleep, annoyance with in-laws, and needing to "win" really should not be your focus. The welfare of your kid should be.

I'll reiterate what I wrote. No man who has to win the baby-rearing conflict with his wife will ever truly win and your child will lose out in not having a harmonious, safe, and peaceful place to be.

Think about it.

Here's good place to start

http://www.babycenter.com/2_baby-sleep-seven-tips_1487524.bc


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## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

Well thanks for the link, but that's pretty much old news at this point. 

tip 1: talk to Dr if medical concerns..... 
No medical reason behind baby not wanting to sleep alone

tip 2: wear your baby down...
Yeah, great idea. ..because up until now I just completely ignore the baby until it's nap time. c'mon. Of course you try to wear the baby down leading up to nap time.
And the video suggests that walking around town for 3 hours with your baby in a sling on your chest is a great way to do this.
really? first of all, who has 3 hours to walk around town every day?
second, this goes against most other experts who say that you should get the baby to fall asleep on it's own. 

tip 3: create regular routines...
yeah been there...do that already. 
here they show a video of a lady rocking the baby to sleep - again, going against the idea of the baby falling asleep in the crib. ..and a the baby falling asleep drinking a bottle - another thing most experts and doctors (including our own) advice against.

tip 4: Place your baby in the crib awake...
okay this directly conflicts with tips 2 and 3, but okay..yeah we do this.
patting the baby down till he/she calms is great if it worked. We do that for HOURS on end. believe me. Only our baby pops up and stands in her crib, so you have to lay her back down and pat her, but, like i said, this goes on for HOURS.

tip 5: teach baby to be self-soother....
yeah we try this too. most of the time though instead of soothing herself, she is doing something to keep herself awake, like making a scratching noise on the matress with her finger nails then she'll start screaming after 10 seconds of that.

tip 6: ask for help....
yeah, thats why i'm here and why i've been researching online
if you're worried you're going to harm your baby you need to seek help from a neighbor??? LMAO
this is rich. 'knock knock' "hi, i live next door. Im going to harm my baby because she won't sleep. can you help me?"
how stupid. 

tip 7: stay committed...
yeah, as I posted earlier, I am committed to it but have been struggling to get my wife on board.

as for my in-laws, they really aren't the issue. It was an EXAMPLE or a reference point even. We moved away from them. they aren't the issue. 
Look, I appreciate the reply posts, but can you come down off your high horse before posting again? We have 3 kids and we aren't totally retarded as you make us out to be.

It's not even all about sleep. I can get 4 hours of sleep and be just fine the next day. Her learning to sleep on her own is an important part of her development and part of the reason behind wanting the change is to allow her more sleep. I dont think she gets enough as it is.


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## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

If you have 3 children then you already know that each child is different. My 4 year old, when he was little, NEVER wanted to sleep with us. He craved his own space, though he loved to be loved on...when he was ready to sleep, he wanted to be left alone. Our youngest, who is now 2, did not want to sleep in his crib at ALL. He slept with us for the first 7+months of his life. It simply was what HE needed. Once he was about 7 months old, he began to let us know that he was looking for more space (stretching out more, being restless when he was in our bed, etc). When he would wake up for his first night feeding, I would put him in his crib after that, and sometimes he would stay there, sometimes he would not. Gradually, the time that he WOULD stay there became longer, until he was sleeping in his crib (in our room, by the way) the whole night. Once he was doing that regularly, we moved his crib to his own room, and he NEVER looked back. 
We never let him "cry it out" because frankly, I think the practice is horrible. When anyone is upset, they want comfort, expecially a baby, who has NO other way to let you know that she is scared, frustrated, etc. but to cry. Since we never let him cry it out, he never had any reason to wonder if or when his needs were going to be met, and I firmly believe that is the reason he adjusted to his bed as well as he did on his OWN. You daughter scratching her nails on her mattress is HER attempt to get her furstrations out, and when she can't, she resorts to screaming because she is not wired yet to soothe herself. Forcing it, is obviously getting you nowhere.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

My son did not sleep through the night until he was 2 years old. It was torture for us (and maybe for him). We did the cry it out thing at some point, and it only semi-worked. He would still not put himself to sleep either at bedtime or if he woke up in the night. To this day (he's 8 1/2 now), he is an incredibly stubborn person and he will not do anything if he doesn't want to. Sounds like your little girl is exerting her stubbornness too. I wish I had some suggestions for you, but I do agree that having her sleep in your bed is not going to help her learn to put herself to sleep.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Mommybean said:


> Forcing it, is obviously getting you nowhere.


This is where you start. The particular tips are suggestions that have worked for some people. Focusing on the exact details of a suggestion and how it won't work for you or it conflicts with another tip? Is that really working for ya?

Your baby needs soothing and may not be on the same track as you think best. Be flexible.


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## Sven (Nov 18, 2009)

This is easy...(the only hard part is having the willpower to do it).

After your normal bedtime routine, whatever that is (bathing, rocking, reading, etc.) you put her in her crib all sweet and wrapped up with favorite stuffed toy....and walk away.

Do not return until morning.

The baby might very well cry all night - but not every night and IT WILL STOP. Have faith.

If you're worried, think of the baby's crying as proof she's still alive.

Good luck.

Oh...one more thing...it helps if the entire house shuts down for the night too. No TVs on, nobody in the kitchen doing dishes...just lights out and quiet for everybody.


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## MrKreevil (Dec 1, 2009)

Look no further then this, the second post. right on for posting this


TNgirl232 said:


> A trick I've seen on supernanny - is you put her in her bed and then you sit in the floor where she can see you but you don't make eye contact or speak to her - doing either just prolongs the issue as they are getting what they want - attention from you. This usually takes several hours the first night and then shorter over the next few - its not a one night deal. Believe me - it will be easier now when she can't get out of the bed to come find you.


let me just add something-
for those of you suggesting that this baby "cry it out", allow me to say that this so-called "technique" is disgusting neglect and the person posting for advice seems much more intelligent and caring to do something so heinous, abominable, and reprehensible to an 8 month old child that needs the security of her parents. sadly this method causes children to involuntarily vomit which can cause them to asphyxiate if they are lying on their back. if not, the stomach churns and the thrust from the potential to vomit will eat away at their tiny, still developing esophagus. anyone that can train themselves to ignore their child and actually get a restful sleep while your child is screaming in their room should never have reproduced.


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## Sven (Nov 18, 2009)

Kreev, I disagree strongly with your assessment and am confident that my suggestion will work.


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## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

Here is a very interesting article on the effects of letting a baby "cry it out". Take note of the study from Harvard that is referenced as well as the fact that Dr. Ferber, who was the biggest proponent of the CIO method, has also changed his tune. 

A Fact-Based Case Against Letting Your Baby "Cry It Out" - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com


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## Sven (Nov 18, 2009)

Well good luck with that. It will result in a child who grows up knowing all she has to do to get what she wants is whine and cry and make enough noise..then somebody will run to her.


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## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

Ya think so? Then explain how MY boys have never been allowed to cry it out, have always had their needs for comfort and security met, OMG actually slept in the same bed with us (our youngest) and we are told by everyone they come in contact with how WELL behaved, respectful, caring and generally happy they are?? When we go out to eat, we are told by other customers AND staff that our children are some of the most courteous, calm and patient children they have seen. Thats a pretty big feat for two boys ages 2 and 4. Kids who constantly have to beg for their parents attention and nurturing...THOSE are the whiny brats of which you speak.


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## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

Wow, I didn't know this would spark such a debate.
I wouldn't let her cry it out all night.
I'm okay with letting her cry for a few minutes and then going in and checking on her. the trouble is, when I would go in and then leave, she would just cry harder.
MrKreevil was right about involuntarily vomitting. Our son used to do that when we was younger and upset even though we were right there with him. He would cry so hard that he would just start puking. 

So anyway, I figured I should give you all an update:
I gave in and moved the crib to our bedroom against my better judgement.
The first 3 nights or so were just as i suspected they would be. -she was standing in her crib seeing us in the bed and crying at us.
I just kept getting up and lying her back down. Some nights it takes 3 hours before she finally goes to sleep herself, but it seems like it has been getting easier.
I also now do the same thing for her naps during the day - I sit on the bed and read or do something and keep lying her down until she falls asleep.

I did some research and found that at her age, she should be getting 15 hours of sleep per day and I figured that with her previous routine of napping on the couch and sleeping in our bed was only getting her about 9 hours per day!

Now her naps are 2 hours instead of 20 - 30 minutes and she sleep much longer at night once she falls asleep.


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## MrKreevil (Dec 1, 2009)

Sven said:


> Well good luck with that. It will result in a child who grows up knowing all she has to do to get what she wants is whine and cry and make enough noise..then somebody will run to her.


thanks for changing your original very RUDE reply. i would like to note that since my children were not born able to speak, and their only form of communication was to cry, then i tend to pay a great deal of attention to their cries. it is simple when you do not ignore your child's cries, you can learn to determine by the pitch, consistency, and volume, what it is they need and how badly. i suppose since big people sleep through the night then littler sized people with a completely different system couldn't possibly need some sort of attention, be it food or diaper change in that long stretch of silence they've grown to fear since their tossed into the darkness and no matter how scared they try to tell you they are, you ignore it.


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## sooner2000 (Feb 11, 2010)

MrKreevil said:


> Look no further then this, the second post. right on for posting this
> 
> let me just add something-
> for those of you suggesting that this baby "cry it out", allow me to say that this so-called "technique" is disgusting neglect and the person posting for advice seems much more intelligent and caring to do something so heinous, abominable, and reprehensible to an 8 month old child that needs the security of her parents. sadly this method causes children to involuntarily vomit which can cause them to asphyxiate if they are lying on their back. if not, the stomach churns and the thrust from the potential to vomit will eat away at their tiny, still developing esophagus. anyone that can train themselves to ignore their child and actually get a restful sleep while your child is screaming in their room should never have reproduced.


That's a little rough. Personally, we didn't do this method, mostly because my wife wouldn't do it. I didn't totally disagree with her, but our kids have never slept throught the night when they were infants. Matter of fact, my 20 month old son just recently started sleeping through the night. I didn't push the issue with my wife, though because I knew it would lead to an un-winnable argument and because since she gets up most of the time, it didn't bother me.


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## sooner2000 (Feb 11, 2010)

TNgirl232 said:


> A trick I've seen on supernanny - is you put her in her bed and then you sit in the floor where she can see you but you don't make eye contact or speak to her - doing either just prolongs the issue as they are getting what they want - attention from you. This usually takes several hours the first night and then shorter over the next few - its not a one night deal. Believe me - it will be easier now when she can't get out of the bed to come find you.


This is a very good suggestion.


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