# Not Quite Cheating??



## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

Hello- I’m very hesitant to write to “strangers” on the web about something so private. I’ve gone thru a few posts on here and hope to get some advice. Thanks!

Thank you! Sorry I’m still trying to navigate this website. I can’t seem to reply. 
I’ve been on marriage sites before and the advice I’m always given is “leave him.” I’m not looking for a way out but I guess a way to change things for the better. But my brief story is that we’ve been married for almost 15 yrs and Although he has never physically cheated on me I know he may have had feelings for others or just would get giddy and excited with certain ppl. Ppl that are either in my family! Or a close friend/neighbor.
My husband was a total nerd all thru out school, bullied by the tough guys and ignored by the pretty girls. I think he still holds on to those high school feelings. So if anyone pretty (or Asian...I think he has an Asian fetish and a stupid young girl fetish.,,,which is odd bc I never played the I’m a ditz game with hiM), have him attn he’d stare at her and WATCH her the entire day with my sitting next to him.

He went on to say once he had a learning disorder,,,that’s why he stares at things/ppl/objects that constantly move in his environment.

One incident with my COUSIN. Who was 17 at the time, he was about 30-31 was flirting with her! Teasing her about watching a horror film with us . But she giddily would refuse saying NOO I’m too scared! And that went on and on. Then she sat at a computer researching something and he was watching over her then suddenly grabbed a piece of her hair saying how curly it was.
A brief background we are a very conservative religious family where typically men and women do not interact alone in rooms unless they are married or siblings. For a young man and little girl to act like that , it’s basically “making advances.” 
He’s constantly stared at my Asian neighbor and once asked if she noticed him changing the outdoor light bulb. He talked to me at the time as if I were his wing man.

I had it out with him about a yr ago. He said he would improve and made sure to keep his focus on me in public , not hav exclusive conversations with girls in my family alone, etc.
He did well but then we re at a school event and there goes his eyes again on this pretty Asian mom. 

We re both in our 40s, have 4 young kids. I’m not looking to babysit him every time I’m out. Yes I do see attractive men everywhere but I don’t ogle them the way he does women. And what’s worse is that it seems he has to put in effort to NOT look. Wtf? 
Why did he bother marrying me?
I’m so not into the “all guys have thatt problem” crap. I’ve been around enough men to see that it is not true. Yes there’s lots of beautiful ppl out there more so than me and him but there’s something called respect.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Welcome, there are lots of folks who can give you advice!


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

*Not quite cheating???*

I’ve been on marriage sites before and the advice I’m always given is “leave him.” I’m not looking for a way out but I guess a way to change things for the better. But my brief story is that we’ve been married for almost 15 yrs and Although he has never physically cheated on me I know he may have had feelings for others or just would get giddy and excited with certain ppl. Ppl that are either in my family! Or a close friend/neighbor. people in our life that i cannot avoid.

My husband was a total nerd all thru out school, bullied by the tough guys and ignored by the pretty girls. I think he still holds on to those high school feelings. So if anyone pretty (or Asian...I think he has an Asian fetish and a stupid young girl fetish.,,,which is odd bc I never played the "I’m a ditz" game with hiM), gives him attn he’d stare at her and WATCH her the entire day with me sitting next to him.

He went on to say once he had a learning disorder,,,that’s why he stares at things/ppl/objects that constantly move in his environment. that he has a hard time focusing when there are things moving around in his visual field. not sure how this explains why his focus is one specific pretty lady verse a 2 year old having a tantrum.

One incident with my COUSIN. Who was 17 at the time, he was about 30-31 was flirting with her! Teasing her about watching a horror film with us. She giddily would refuse saying NOO I’m too scared! And that went on and on. Then she sat at a computer researching something and he was watching over her then suddenly grabbed a piece of her hair saying how curly it was.
A brief background: we are a very conservative religious family where typically men and women do not interact alone in rooms unless they are married or siblings. For a young man and little girl to act like that , it’s basically “making advances.” He is not from our culture so to him he thinks this might be normal but i dont buy that. i dont think its ok for a person just bc they are white, to flirt with anyone if youre married.

He’s constantly stared at my Asian neighbor and once asked if she noticed him changing the outdoor light bulb. He talked to me at the time as if I were his wing man.

I had it out with him about a yr ago about all this. He said he would improve and made sure to keep his focus on me in public , not have exclusive conversations with girls in my family alone, etc.
He did well but then we re at a school event last week and there goes his eyes again on this pretty Asian mom.

We re both in our 40s, have 4 young kids. I’m not looking to babysit him every time I’m out. Yes I do see attractive men everywhere but I don’t ogle them the way he does women. And what’s worse is that it seems he has to put in effort to NOT look. Wtf?
Why did he bother marrying me?
I’m so not into the “all guys have that problem” crap. I’ve been around enough men to see that it is not true. Yes there’s lots of beautiful ppl out there more so than me and him but there’s something called respect.

My anxiety is increasing more so now bc we have a family wedding coming where that cousin will be. she is married now with one kid but still "stupid" and giddy. I feel like she senses some irritation from me, with her loudly and comfortably talking with my husband and so she purposely faces him one and one and speaks to him. you'd have to understand my culture to see that this is a big NO NO. My brothers and other male cousins who were all born and raised in the states who are essentially VERY "american" do not engage in her antics.
she s loud, laughs at EVERYTHING, and pretends to be easily impressed....constantly complimenting. SHe's even told me once how one of my cousins played into her compliments, showing his car off more and more...this tells me she knows how to "play" guys and does it on purpose.

why would she do this to ME, someone who helped her out of a depression, being picked on for her looks, making her confident..?

why would my husband continue to gaze at pretty women in front me?
whats he doing when im not there?
how do you love someone at home but continue to flirt with ppl outside of the home?

i do compliment him at home, i have built him up in his confidence, i feel like ive done all this to help him grow in life emotionally but sadly, he s now using it against me. he s suddenly getting all this attn from women in his life that he lacked in high school and forgetting who he has at home.

yes i am a strict controlling wife who expects my husband to have eyes only for me, not flirt with other women (ESPLY not in FRONT of me), and in public when we are together, be confident in our marriage so much that he doesnt require attn from women.

i have always been boy crazy, it took some time to remind myself to not stare at hot guys, once i was married. but it wasnt difficult bc i had someone at home who i thought loved me. if my eyes happen across someone, i look once and thats it...whether im with my husband or not. i am not interested in anything external.

how am i supposed to continue family events like this?

he tells me in his "culture" (white american), its rude to walk away from someone who is talking to you, or be terse with answers.
BS. marriage is marriage,. respect is respect.
ive even been in situations where i was talking to a friends husband...I know im not the hottest lady around, but sometimes the husband just has NO interest in responding to me...and walks away...no offense taken..and this was a white guy. I wasnt flirting with him, just a comment on his kid or some BS.

ive had friends tell me its all in my head. it is not. ive seen the change in his face, his demeanor. i study behavior and i know...

i just cant be with someone who cant help themselves ESPLY around me (and when NOT around me too).
I dont know if i should bring it up again or just swallow it like i have been doing (except the big blow out fight we had last year), thinking that im just very insecure.

sorry for the long post!


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

thank you!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: Not quite cheating???*

*Do you know, @Omzig19 ~ exactly what "probable cause" is?

Well, it's more than apparent from your H's actions that you have it!*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Omzig19 said:


> Hello- I’m very hesitant to write to “strangers” on the web about something so private. I’ve gone thru a few posts on here and hope to get some advice. Thanks!
> 
> Thank you! Sorry I’m still trying to navigate this website. I can’t seem to reply.
> I’ve been on marriage sites before and the advice I’m always given is “leave him.” I’m not looking for a way out but I guess a way to change things for the better. But my brief story is that we’ve been married for almost 15 yrs and Although he has never physically cheated on me I know he may have had feelings for others or just would get giddy and excited with certain ppl. Ppl that are either in my family! Or a close friend/neighbor.
> ...


Sorry you had to seek us out, but I'm glad you found us. 

Your husband is not normal. Seriously, he is not normal. But! What kind of not normal might he be?

I think you need to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist to find out what is wrong with him and how, or if, it can be treated. And he does need treatment because one day he will try it with the wrong person and it wouldn't go well for him.

As for putting in an effort not to look? That happens to me, sometimes.

I have moved your thread to the Coping With Infidelity forum because, in a way, he is cheating on you.

Have you considered counselling as a couple?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I have just combined your two threads into one.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> he tells me in his "culture" (white american), its rude to walk away from someone who is talking to you, or be terse with answers.


You have a steep hill to climb. I bet'cha there have been times when he has walked away from / tuned out someone because they were unappealing in some way. But people who talk the way your husband does think they are superior to others in some way.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Honestly, he sounds VERY immature. Look, he is an adult. As an adult, you are expected to be able to control yourself, and he fails at that miserably.
Leering at women is NOT a sign of a mature, responsible male. YES, every one looks and can see if someone of the opposite sex is attractive (as you've mentioned yourself). Leering/letching at other women is NOT appropriate, ESPECIALLY when he is married. He needs to be told that other women would find that to be VERY off-putting and creepy. Maybe he needs some counseling for his own issues to overcome this.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Flirting/staring at women makes you (among other things) feel unsafe.
Therefore, your husband is failing in his obligation to make you feel safe.

It is not only rude an disrespectful to you but it puts your marriage at risk.

You both should read: Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass

She identifies certain protective behaviors/boundaries that every couple should follow.
The book is based on studies of couples that experienced infidelity. After reading this book your husband should stop this immature and disrespectful behavior that can damage his marriage.

BTW: If you guys live a strict religious life style, isn't there a religious leader that can counsel your husband???


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

He knows your feelings and does not care. Furthermore, there seems to be underlying control issues for both of y'all. 

Nerds do not usually manifest with a learning disorder. So he flirts, likes Asian females, co-workers, neighbors, family, and young gigglers. 

Has he done this throughout the fifteen years? He knows you will not leave. So, I agree counseling might be start. 

I'm thinking he needs a large dose of respect and a basketful of manners. However, he is not dead and will continue to make a fool of himself oogling as long as he aggravates you.... He knows your feelings and he does not care.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Quote: 
i just cant be with someone who cant help themselves ESPLY around me (and when NOT around me too). End Quote,..

Omgiz, here is your answer even though you don't want to see or believe it. It is possible try and lie to oneself. You are the marital police, and you will continue to be so until you set boundaries for your husband. Nothing will change, what do you fear? Him leaving well why do you want a asshat? Put the law down.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> Have you considered counselling as a couple?


i went to counseling for grief after i lost a family member. most of it was for the grief and then some turned into marriage counseling!
but she said she could only tell ME how to think, interpret, talk, etc bc he wasnt there.
i asked him to come and he said he would if i really wanted him to but in the end he wouldnt and thought we could just figure it out.
i have asked him to see someone due to some of his anxiety. it was getting worse and impacting the family. he has a family history but nothing that takes over completely (so far).
since then he has changed his thoughts and behaviors.
i still think he needs to see someone for himself, bc he has not let go of negative feelings from high school days...still talks about it. where as me...im talking about NOW...


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

NextTimeAround said:


> You have a steep hill to climb. I bet'cha there have been times when he has walked away from / tuned out someone because they were unappealing in some way. But people who talk the way your husband does think they are superior to others in some way.



this is true..he does think he is superior to others. i have confronted him on this and he was SO offended...but he is changing this..i have seen a difference. 
this complex of his (which comes from his family) has to do with his unresolved insecurities i think....? he was not this way when i met him...its grown over the years, climaxed and now is dwindling down...


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> Honestly, he sounds VERY immature. Look, he is an adult. As an adult, you are expected to be able to control yourself, and he fails at that miserably.
> Leering at women is NOT a sign of a mature, responsible male. YES, every one looks and can see if someone of the opposite sex is attractive (as you've mentioned yourself). Leering/letching at other women is NOT appropriate, ESPECIALLY when he is married. He needs to be told that other women would find that to be VERY off-putting and creepy. Maybe he needs some counseling for his own issues to overcome this.


yes, i brought this very point up at one of our huge fights last year,,,that not only is he making ME look dumb but looks like a perverted creep himself in front of my friends and family.

when a married man stares at me, the first thing i think is...that poor wife, she married a loser. yes emotionally he is immature.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

Robert22205 said:


> Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Flirting/staring at women makes you (among other things) feel unsafe.
> Therefore, your husband is failing in his obligation to make you feel safe.
> 
> It is not only rude an disrespectful to you but it puts your marriage at risk.
> ...


i will look into this book. part of the problem is he works a LOT and very hard for us and no extra time for counseling, books. we ve spent the last 12 years raising babies and finally are coming out of the hole! he had a book on his nightstand for a year before he touched it again. i havent read a book for pleasure in.....12 yrs???
regardless, he will move things around for us. the way we've been managing is me sending marriage articles and him telling me his thoughts or discussing over email and sometimes in person. we ALWAYS put aside at least 45 min to ourselves every weeknight and over an hr on weekends. strict bedtimes for kids (for now). we rarely go out on dates (but ok with that bc we have our time every night).

well i should have said that *i* come from a very religious background. he converted. i consider myself strict compared to the typical american life. he follows most of the things i do minus the amount of praying i do. but supports everything for the family. yes, this is a big thing bc in our family, if a guy shows compassion for God/religion, he is less likely to stray....not to say religious ppl dont sin!


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

sunsetmist said:


> He knows your feelings and does not care. Furthermore, there seems to be underlying control issues for both of y'all.
> 
> Nerds do not usually manifest with a learning disorder. So he flirts, likes Asian females, co-workers, neighbors, family, and young gigglers.
> 
> ...


in the beginning of our rlshp, he was the one who was EXTREMELY jealous. i had a LOT of male friends some of who i considered my best friends. he didnt like that esply after he found out that one of those best friends and i had a short fling (no strings). i respected that and with difficulty at the time, cut off ties with "my brothers." as we started having kids, i got fat and pregnant and there was no time for jealousy i suppose. maybe he knew no one would want me...but the jealousy stopped (but theere was nothing to be jealous of).
i questioned that after a while....
as far as his behaviors showing throughout 15 yrs...well they were there sporadically...nothing consistent. first there was this pretty girl, then that pretty woman, etc.
he and i were friends first and there was even a time when me and his guy friends were trying to set him up with some chic..since then we have always been open about talking about ANYTHING...then we got married and i felt there were now certain boundaries...i was suddenly now sensitive to other pretty girls around me (whereas before i could care less....why is this???).
so then I started getting jealous....which was new to him! he does know i wont leave him..i THINK. he has told me a a few yrs ago that hes terrified to come home to an empty home, suitcases and kids gone after any fight. this was about 5 yrs ago. since then we promised each other to never do that.
i know he will not leave me. he is very dependent on us. despite him not being able to handle 4 kids (which i had to have him agree to...he only wanted 2), he says he cannot fathom a life without us.

well he cant have his cake and eat it too!! :-D

so after our big huge fight last yr, he has made progress but i still cant help "watching" him and this is unnerving to me. and whether he is really oogling or just glance...bc im watching for it...its still an offense.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Quote:
> i just cant be with someone who cant help themselves ESPLY around me (and when NOT around me too). End Quote,..
> 
> Omgiz, here is your answer even though you don't want to see or believe it. It is possible try and lie to oneself. You are the marital police, and you will continue to be so until you set boundaries for your husband. Nothing will change, what do you fear? Him leaving well why do you want a asshat? Put the law down.



ive considered leaving him many times. once he got so tired of me threatening he said fine lets make a phone call tomorrow. then the next day he told me doesnt ever want to hear the D word again and he ll do anything to make it work. ive gone thru all the motions in my head on how to leave him and the steps to take. and in the end ive calculated that this can be solvable...if he changes 100% and never makes a mistake. how realistic is this?

the problem he has is he has trouble admitting fault. taking blame. not sure if he was raised this way or what, he is not humble as he was when i first met him. if he admits to oogling, he would admit he is an *******.
do guys ever admit this? once when i told him, it is NOT normal to talk to a female married or not in a room alone bc the 3rd person is the devil urging you to sin. besides that whoever sees you, thinks theres something going on. i asked if he agreed with his. he said NO, that growing up it was quite normal for opposite genders to talk hang out etc. no one thought anything bad.
i told him well if he accepted that him talking to her alone was ok, then we had a BIG problem. its unacceptable to me and i couldnt go on with the rlshp. he changed his mind real quick.
the thing about this incident was that he was sitting by himself on his phone in my moms living room and my cousin had walked in THERE to talk to him. he thought it was rude to get up and walk away. my mom and other family were in the room next to their room (only separated by one wall). so it wasnt a closed room. but still...he should have gotten up. completely inappropriate in my family.

we had the huge fight AFTER this incident.

i like how you said...i set the tone/boundaries.


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## farfalla (Oct 22, 2019)

Omzig19 said:


> He went on to say once he had a learning disorder,,,that’s why he stares at things/ppl/objects that constantly move in his environment.


A learning disorder? That's a good one.

Have any of the women he's pays inappropriate attention to ever told you that they are uncomfortable with him doing it? Have any of them told him?

You cannot change him. All you can do is to set your own boundaries So sit him down and tell him that what he does is not ok with you. It's disrespectful to you. So either he stops or you are leaving him. Tell him that he has to go to counseling with you in order for you to stay with him.

Unless you are very clear that you mean this and will act if he does not deal with it, he has no motivation to change.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

He knew what your religious beliefs were before he married you. Your beliefs and practices make him feel safe. 

I observe that he tends to listen when you give him consequences (a D). Your strategy worked in the short term but long term it's failed. 

Long term, it's become a game of tag. He crosses an inappropriate boundary and then plays dumb afterward - and implies that you're unreasonable but he'll comply to avoid 'D'. 

In order for you to feel safe in your marriage, your husband must step up and embrace and apply certain boundaries (and stop pretending he didn't know ...).

Do not allow him to read the book at his convenience. It won't happen.
For example, jointly set a schedule to read the book over a week. Perhaps you should read first and then provide him a question to think about while he's reading.

"Not Just Friends' is not a long book. It's an easy read based on real life experiences of couples that experienced adultery. Each short chapter can be discussed separately. 5 mins each to read a chapter - and discuss immediately or on the weekend after church. Do one chapter per evening.

You guys are struggling with boundaries and this book identifies the boundaries that protect a marriage. 

And it covers "I was't looking for an affair" or "we're just friends" or "I'm an extrovert" or "She/He needs my shoulder to lean on/advice" or "my intentions are pure". 

I wish you both well.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Does your religion in any way suggest that women are inferior to men?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Omzig19 said:


> which was new to him! he does know i wont leave him..i THINK. he has told me a a few yrs ago that hes terrified to come home to an empty home, suitcases and kids gone after any fight. this was about 5 yrs ago. since then we promised each other to never do that.
> i know he will not leave me. he is very dependent on us. despite him not being able to handle 4 kids (which i had to have him agree to...he only wanted 2), he says he cannot fathom a life without us.


So you each supposedly know you wont leave the other... sounds to me like permission to act as crappy as possible with the security of knowing your partner will just suck it up, so who cares? Respect isnt required, I guess. You are looking to change things, but the only thing you can change is yourself. 




Omzig19 said:


> well he cant have his cake and eat it too!! :-D


Um wrong... you have made it very clear that he CAN. 



Omzig19 said:


> so after our big huge fight last yr, he has made progress but i still cant help "watching" him and this is unnerving to me. and whether he is really oogling or just glance...bc im watching for it...its still an offense.


Playing marriage police is an exhausting way to live. Honestly from what you describe, your H sounds borderline pedophile. Have you checked his computer history?


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Omzig19 said:


> i told him well if he accepted that him talking to her alone was ok, then we had a BIG problem. its unacceptable to me and i couldnt go on with the rlshp. he changed his mind real quick.
> the thing about this incident was that he was sitting by himself on his phone in my moms living room and my cousin had walked in THERE to talk to him. he thought it was rude to get up and walk away. my mom and other family were in the room next to their room (only separated by one wall). so it wasnt a closed room. but still...he should have gotten up. completely inappropriate in my family.
> 
> we had the huge fight AFTER this incident.
> ...


What country are you from? I know you mentioned that you are a conservative Christian. I see a lot of similarities with a former neighbor who is Muslim. He was African American but his wife was from Morocco. I no longer live in that subdivision and his family moved as well but when they first moved in, my wife reached out to shake his hand. He declined, saying they aren't allowed to touch other people wives. Uh ok I guess. 

One time I went to his house to help his set the clock on his lawn sprinkler system in his garage. At this time a young Muslim woman was visiting his wife. They were both inside the house. I was in the garage with Amin and another Muslim guy who was also from Morocco who was a student at the local University. He came over to have Amin help him with a project for class. While I was fumbling with the clock, he told Amin that he was going to go inside to say his prayers. At first Amin told him to go in. Then he suddenly remembered there was a married woman in the house without her husband. He freaked out and told him not to go in because that other woman was in there. The look on their faces after they realized what almost happened was like what I imagine you would have after you accidentally push the red button on the nuclear missle launch box but it turns out the battery is dead.

I know conservative Christians and conservative Muslims aren't big fans of each other, but there are some similarities with how they view women and sexuality.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

NextTimeAround said:


> Does your religion in any way suggest that women are inferior to men?


No in fact women are considered the back bone of the family but he converted into my religion from a typical white American family where men are considered superior to women.

I’ve learned in life tho that culture is very subjective and sometimes what some ppl consider “culture” is just how their particular family was raised.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> So you each supposedly know you wont leave the other... sounds to me like permission to act as crappy as possible with the security of knowing your partner will just suck it up, so who cares? Respect isnt required, I guess. You are looking to change things, but the only thing you can change is yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A promise not to leave each other doesn’t immediately relieve any insecurities. It’s just a way of saying “I won’t walk out without a conversation.”

Yes being a police is exhausting. It’s like constantly babysitting. Part of it is me not feeling secure enough. Part of THAT is bc of the way I felt growing up (blame media, society, passed rlshps, parents, whatever causes insecurity). 

My husband cannot stand chaos, fighting, unhappiness (esply me being unhappy) in the home. So on the contrary if he DOES choose to have and EAT cake, he knows he will be living in hell. So as I’ve said he has made progress 🤷🏻*♀

His computer history? He doesn’t use ANY social media. He works too much, he is not very social outside of work (at work he begrudgingly attends mandatory work functions). I would say and he does too that he is borderline aspergers. Feels awkward in social situations. Sometimes says the wrong thing...goes on and on about topics misreading when ppl don’t want to talk about that anymore! Regardless I have peaked into his work computer and phones. He willingly gives me all his passwords. I have been unsuccessful in finding anything. I haven’t checked in a while. He’s rarely on the computer at home unless it’s bills , money stuff, etc. our time together is pretty routine.

Pedophile...the thought crossed my mind but I think it has more to do with his unresolved issues in high school. I have talked to him about this. He says I don’t understand what it s like to be beat up in high school constant made fun of being told he was ugly by girls etc. that’s why those memories are still there and he has like this hatred for “tough” guys even “tough” kids.


I ve heard and seen many adults in their 40s, 50s who have lots of unresolved issues from high school or college. Those experiences unfortunately shape ppl. Men and women cheat, buy “child-like” sports cars, get jealous of celebrities, act out in public, drinking drugs etc 

I don’t see him as being attracted to young children. I mean do you consider older men married to younger (but of age) females pedophiles? A 40 something guy married to a 30 something woman?
I think it’s weird but not pedophile. In fact just the other day I told him that our gay neighbor who is upper 40s is married to an early 30s guy and my husband called HIM disgusting.

There was a time where I felt that he “didn’t realize his age.” Ive heard some men don’t acknowledge that and think they’re 21 forever. Like they’re stuck or haven’t developed beyond that. Guess it’s not just men,,,I see women acting out too.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

It's okay to notice an attractive person, but checking someone out more than once or twice? Or going further? That's disrespectful to your spouse and it's destructive to your marriage.

Your husband sounds like he's dealing with insecurities stemming from his youth and possibly from his social challenges. When he receives attention from the opposite sex, it's difficult for him to dismiss that attention because it assuages that insecurity. It sounds like individual counseling could really benefit him in addressing the issues underlying his insecurity.

Also, I get the sense from several things you've said that you're very controlling in this relationship, and that could be making the problem worse rather than better. If your husband has a more submissive, passive personality, and you have a more dominant, controlling personality, then he could subconsciously view these experiences with other women, particularly younger women, as an opportunity for him to briefly reclaim his masculinity. You can't henpeck a man into loving only you and showing attention only to you, and attempting to control him will only have the opposite effect in the long run. 

In addition, there seems to be a great deal of unhealthy co-dependency in your marriage (on both sides) resulting from his insecurities, as well as yours (which seem to relate to your appearance and possibly a sense of lost identity post-children). If so, that co-dependency is only going to put more pressure on the situation while simultaneously making you both feel stuck at an impasse. 

Finally, how's your love life with your husband? I'm not asking for details, but I get the sense that if you regularly experienced passionate desire from your husband, there would be a lot less jealousy on your part. Again, I'm not attempting to excuse or justify him ogling other women. I'm also not excusing him failing to change his behavior after you told him how it makes you feel. What I am saying is that I've been in relationships with secure women and insecure, jealous women, and those women would view the same interaction between me and a member of the opposite sex completely differently.

Long story short, I think you both have significant insecurity issues which are playing out in the form of inappropriate boundaries with the opposite sex (him), jealousy (you), co-dependency (both), and an unhealthy power dynamic (both). In addition to individual counseling for you both to address those insecurities, I think marriage counseling could be helpful in creating a better partnership and dynamic between you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

No, I do NOT consider a man older than his wife to be a pedophile. (one of my ex's was 16 years older than me, in fact) You described his flirtations with a 17 year old girl. Depending on where you live, 17 isnt even considered a legal adult yet. This is creepy and inappropriate. When I mentioned his computer history, I didnt mean his social media, like Facebook. I meant, what kind of porn is he looking at? Is he going to websites that allow him to look at underage girls, or to possible hook up with them? That kind of thing, not something normal like FB. (If you do look, make sure you dont actually do a "search" for those things!)


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Omzig19 said:


> No in fact women are considered the back bone of the family but he converted into my religion from a *typical white American family* where men are considered superior to women.
> 
> I’ve learned in life tho that culture is very subjective and sometimes what some ppl consider “culture” is just how their particular family was raised.


HUH??
In what way?
Football or Cheerleading?
There's more to your problems than him.
Change what you can....you.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

Moon Angel said:


> A learning disorder? That's a good one.
> 
> Have any of the women he's pays inappropriate attention to ever told you that they are uncomfortable with him doing it? Have any of them told him?
> 
> ...


isnt it? I was baffled when i heard that excuse! No no woman has ever confronted him. usually its amongst friends/neighbors and they are the ones striking the conversations/approaching him. but then (in the past) after they walk away he watches to see if theyll come back and interact more...like a lost hungry puppy. or like "omg she actually spoke to me!"
i dont know if they notice him staring but if they do im sure they think its weird and just make comments to themselves bc we're friends.
thanks for the advice


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

Robert22205 said:


> He knew what your religious beliefs were before he married you. Your beliefs and practices make him feel safe.
> 
> I observe that he tends to listen when you give him consequences (a D). Your strategy worked in the short term but long term it's failed.
> 
> ...



this may be doable. yes definitely short term, our talks help. but ihave to admit he's "lapsed" once so far and i really cant even guarantee 100% he was staring at/checking out this woman. i feel like he definitely noticed her and i felt like i had to watch him so that i would have an excuse to call it quits (my insecurities).
i did actually bring this up to him bc hes been noticing something is off about me. of course he didnt admit even noticing her. (do guys ever???)
but he apologized and said all the things he s supposed to say and that he doesnt want me looking at other dudes too. and this fight was progress in that there was no blaming or making each other feel horrible as we have done to each other in the past.

in the past he has said that i basically make him feel like a pervert. one thing he said recently was that if i keep accusing him and calling him a pervert he will eventually believe it. what does that mean????

was that a threat???

thank you...ill check out this book...


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

One Eighty said:


> So this is how you see yourself. You married a loser. I totally agree. And yet you want to stay with this loser for some reason. Are you trapped by family, finances, something else? What do others in your culture, who you respect, do when they realize they have married a loser? Do you have any strong women as examples to look to for guidance with respect to having a loser for a husband? You can't be the only one in this position.


absolutely!! when he is ogling other women,,,,he is DEFINITELY acting like a loser.
no i definitely do not feel trapped by anything. my biggest fear in divorcing is compromising the emotional stability of my children. and they are my everything..actually the entire dynamic of the family is including my husband. call me old fashion.

in my culture or family there have been divorces but not many. the woman are strong some of the men are. the ones who havent really amounted to anything (contribute nothing to the family or society) are just kinda left there watching life go by. that said, theres nothing public about any cheating in my family. not to say there hasnt been. but i just cant see my uncles doing anything like that! but what do i know?? they are all god-fearing...eventually it seems they both work really hard at their mariage both putting in effort to make it work. the difference in our family's culture is that divorce isnt the FIRST option.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

Jus260 said:


> What country are you from? I know you mentioned that you are a conservative Christian. I see a lot of similarities with a former neighbor who is Muslim. He was African American but his wife was from Morocco. I no longer live in that subdivision and his family moved as well but when they first moved in, my wife reached out to shake his hand. He declined, saying they aren't allowed to touch other people wives. Uh ok I guess.
> 
> One time I went to his house to help his set the clock on his lawn sprinkler system in his garage. At this time a young Muslim woman was visiting his wife. They were both inside the house. I was in the garage with Amin and another Muslim guy who was also from Morocco who was a student at the local University. He came over to have Amin help him with a project for class. While I was fumbling with the clock, he told Amin that he was going to go inside to say his prayers. At first Amin told him to go in. Then he suddenly remembered there was a married woman in the house without her husband. He freaked out and told him not to go in because that other woman was in there. The look on their faces after they realized what almost happened was like what I imagine you would have after you accidentally push the red button on the nuclear missle launch box but it turns out the battery is dead.
> 
> I know conservative Christians and conservative Muslims aren't big fans of each other, but there are some similarities with how they view women and sexuality.



this is a great story and similar to our family but not quite that strict.

I am from the country of the united states of america.

its interesting that ppl in the states forget our own history of when we had slaves and women were considered property. in fact women are sadly still looked upon as sex symbols only. thankfully america has smartened up a bit but we still lack the capability to allow women to lead.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

Satisfied Mind said:


> It's okay to notice an attractive person, but checking someone out more than once or twice? Or going further? That's disrespectful to your spouse and it's destructive to your marriage.
> 
> Your husband sounds like he's dealing with insecurities stemming from his youth and possibly from his social challenges. When he receives attention from the opposite sex, it's difficult for him to dismiss that attention because it assuages that insecurity. It sounds like individual counseling could really benefit him in addressing the issues underlying his insecurity.
> 
> ...



youre pretty good. in fact we are both slightly controlling. we have both worked on it. we both kind of balance each other. theres not much that i control in his life tho. he really revolves around me and the kids. he does come up with ideas for fun outings, participates in school activities/homework/social behavioral needs of the kids and funds us all.

could you elaborate on the co-dependency part? what do you mean? we need each other emotionally? we cant function without each other? 

we are both quite traditional. we like the set up we have...me at home, him at work. i have worked in the past and plan to again once things are settled at home. there have been times in fights that he has said that i emasculate him. to me that was an excuse bc i was arguing against all his points. i never make fun of him, laugh at him, or say anything on a daily basis or yell at him or nag him to do this and that..it is just in arguments when he has nothing to say back to me bc he knows im right that he used that line.

give me some examples of emasculating someone to see if i do any of those things?

as far as intimacy...what can i say? that is the thing that keeps us together :-D we have it often and when we do its great for both of us. i will say it was a problem in the past during the newborn and toddler phases (lots of fatigue, bad timing). there are occasional lulls but we get back into it. at this time i think we finally are in sync with regards to how often. in the past there were times when he needed it a lot and i wanted nothing and vice versa. i used to think it was weird that a guy didnt want sex. i found out later that it just happens and all guys are different.

like i said, in the beginning, he was the super insecure one and i was the mostly secure one. i feel like i have helped rebuild his security which has helped in all aspects of his life. after the babies, i was left with becoming insecure again. he does do little things to help rebuild it. i told him last night it seems you only love me at home but in public i feel like youre looking for something better. to make it fair, the only places he goes alone is work (and dr's appts, maybe the kids' school occasionally). other times he is with me. he is so enmeshed with work that he has no clue whats going on in the real world (except in traffic or what he hears on the radio). so i think when he s thrown in social situations its a huge transition....? thats just my take...


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

That would be interesting to see what people consider controlling and what isn't.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> No, I do NOT consider a man older than his wife to be a pedophile. (one of my ex's was 16 years older than me, in fact) You described his flirtations with a 17 year old girl. Depending on where you live, 17 isnt even considered a legal adult yet. This is creepy and inappropriate. When I mentioned his computer history, I didnt mean his social media, like Facebook. I meant, what kind of porn is he looking at? Is he going to websites that allow him to look at underage girls, or to possible hook up with them? That kind of thing, not something normal like FB. (If you do look, make sure you dont actually do a "search" for those things!)



yes she was 17 at the time and he was about 30. disregarding state legislature which determines who is an adult and who isnt, i dont think its appropriate firstly bc he is married. i have heard of many men (and women) who start rlshps with what certain states consider underage. its an easy fix. 6 mos later on the "kids'" birthday...bam! they are 18. its LEGAL. does that make it right? not to me. so this is now no longer a pedophile case. but still inappropriate. i have had men hit on me at age 16-17 (men who were over 21). its not unheard of, its just gross.

i should have also mentioned that i am in my 40s so when i say "young girls" im thinking 39 or younger ;-) usually in the 20s.

which brings me to a question for you men out there. when you see a hot attractive girl showcasing her hot body and you are attracted to her, what is your first thought? is it...how old is she? and once you find out she is 16, 17 does your brain tell you automatically, thats gross, she s a child. or does your mind still go on?

im interested to see if all guys are attracted to just attractive ppl or do you see age?
when i see a young man with a great bod...i can tell by his facial skin that he is young. im not attracted to that, but thats bc i prefer older (my age) men.

i find it interesting that you assume all men look at porn regularly. this is why i had mentioned the conservative-ish life that we live. that we are not your typical american couple as you may think. out of all the ppl ive known in my life..i would say i have only heard of 1% admitting that they watch porn on a regular basis(someone NOT in my culture). in fact a few years ago, i was stunned to discover that. my husband is rarely on his computer or phone. if he s on his computer its work or bills. he goes to bed earlier than me. no porn here. but i know how some ppl think..."of COURSE he watches porn...ALL men watch porn...youre just naive." i realize its difficult to see that there are ppl out there that live differently than you and i.
there really are ppl out there that dont do things like that...


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

StillSearching said:


> HUH??
> In what way?
> Football or Cheerleading?
> There's more to your problems than him.
> Change what you can....you.


not sure what you mean here...do you mind elaborating?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Omzig19 said:


> which brings me to a question for you men out there. when you see a hot attractive girl showcasing her hot body and you are attracted to her, what is your first thought? is it...how old is she? and once you find out she is 16, 17 does your brain tell you automatically, thats gross, she s a child. or does your mind still go on?
> 
> im interested to see if all guys are attracted to just attractive ppl or do you see age?


I'm mid 30's. When I see young girls (teens to early 20's) in revealing clothing, I think they should go put some clothes on, get some self-respect, and stop looking for attention. I don't find it attractive at all. I have a daughter, and my mind goes to protective thoughts about her. 

I have friends (mid to late 30’s) who routinely sleep with 18-21 year olds. It's disgusting to me. Those are kids! But I'm well aware that isn't a popular opinion. 

My wife is the same age as me, but she looks 10 years younger than she is. She constantly gets comments on her age. Honestly, when we were mid-20's it bothered me because it looked like I was out with a 15 year old. 

I can acknowledge that a person is attractive, regardless of age or gender. However, my range for being sexually attracted to a woman is probably +/- 5 years.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

bobert said:


> I'm mid 30's. When I see young girls (teens to early 20's) in revealing clothing, I think they should go put some clothes on, get some self-respect, and stop looking for attention. I don't find it attractive at all. I have a daughter, and my mind goes to protective thoughts about her.
> 
> I have friends (mid to late 30’s) who routinely sleep with 18-21 year olds. It's disgusting to me. Those are kids! But I'm well aware that isn't a popular opinion.
> 
> ...


My sons GF is actually a year older than him (27) and three years ago, she got in to mini golf on the "kids" rate (under 14)! My son of course paid full price. The attendant kind looked at him as if he was a perv....:grin2:


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> My sons GF is actually a year older than him (27) and three years ago, she got in to mini golf on the "kids" rate (under 14)! My son of course paid full price. The attendant kind looked at him as if he was a perv....:grin2:


About 10 years ago my wife and I went to an R rated movie. She was stopped and ID'd. She didn't have any ID on her so we couldn't see the movie. We saw Kung Fu Panda instead...


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

Omzig19 said:


> youre pretty good. in fact we are both slightly controlling. we have both worked on it. we both kind of balance each other. theres not much that i control in his life tho. he really revolves around me and the kids. he does come up with ideas for fun outings, participates in school activities/homework/social behavioral needs of the kids and funds us all.
> 
> we are both quite traditional. we like the set up we have...me at home, him at work. i have worked in the past and plan to again once things are settled at home. there have been times in fights that he has said that i emasculate him. to me that was an excuse bc i was arguing against all his points. i never make fun of him, laugh at him, or say anything on a daily basis or yell at him or nag him to do this and that..it is just in arguments when he has nothing to say back to me bc he knows im right that he used that line.
> 
> give me some examples of emasculating someone to see if i do any of those things?


You provided your own example right there - invalidating his feelings without really listening to him. He has told you that he feels emasculated by you, and you didn't really hear him. Instead, you decided you're right, regardless of his feelings on the subject, and that's that. Re-read how you described your communication with your husband when you disagreed. A good marriage counselor is extremely helpful in facilitating and developing effective communication techniques when disagreeing about sensitive issues. It starts with actively listening to your spouse and recognizing and acknowledging his/her feelings even if you don't think there's a good reason for him/her to feel that way.



Omzig19 said:


> could you elaborate on the co-dependency part? what do you mean? we need each other emotionally? we cant function without each other?


I've seen a lot of different definitions of co-dependency and seen it play out in a number of different ways, but my view is that it involves an excessive reliance on your spouse, particularly for things that you are ultimately responsible for. In my experience, it usually results from insecurity, which causes a person to dysfunctionally depend on the spouse for their own happiness and/or causes a person to accept less than they deserve from their spouse for the sake of not blowing up the marriage. If you both think you're stuck with each other, what's the motivation for either of you to improve and be the husband/wife that the other deserves?



Omzig19 said:


> like i said, in the beginning, he was the super insecure one and i was the mostly secure one. i feel like i have helped rebuild his security which has helped in all aspects of his life. after the babies, i was left with becoming insecure again. he does do little things to help rebuild it. i told him last night it seems you only love me at home but in public i feel like youre looking for something better. to make it fair, the only places he goes alone is work (and dr's appts, maybe the kids' school occasionally). other times he is with me. he is so enmeshed with work that he has no clue whats going on in the real world (except in traffic or what he hears on the radio). so i think when he s thrown in social situations its a huge transition....? thats just my take...


The key thing is that your insecurities don't depend on what he does or doesn't do and vice versa. Insecurity comes from the inside. A secure person is that way regardless of what anyone around him/her does or doesn't do. While almost no one is perfectly immune to external inputs (nor should they be), your insecurities ultimately derive from your perception of yourself. That's what needs to change, and I think individual counseling would help you both with that. Marriage counseling would help you and your husband to communicate about what you can do (or not do) to better support each other in that personal journey.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Omzig19 said:


> StillSearching said:
> 
> 
> > HUH??
> ...


For all your blaming white american family's...etc... is foolish.
It shows me most of your problems are created by you.
Do the only thing you can do to fix things......
Take a good hard look at yourself. 
It's the only way you will find an answer.......period.

and Men are superior in the football realm.
Women are superior in the cheerleading realm.
You've bought into this nonsensical belief that everyone is equal somehow....no one equates to anyone else. 

That shows me your belief system is the best place to start to fix the issue. It's seriously flawed, regardless of your culture.
Or honestly....I will never be fixed.
Don't mess with mother nature, her blind awakenings will hurt you.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

Satisfied Mind said:


> You provided your own example right there - invalidating his feelings without really listening to him. He has told you that he feels emasculated by you, and you didn't really hear him. Instead, you decided you're right, regardless of his feelings on the subject, and that's that. Re-read how you described your communication with your husband when you disagreed. A good marriage counselor is extremely helpful in facilitating and developing effective communication techniques when disagreeing about sensitive issues. It starts with actively listening to your spouse and recognizing and acknowledging his/her feelings even if you don't think there's a good reason for him/her to feel that way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




just to clarify, when i THINK im right, i dont actually say it out loud! its all in my head. but to ME i feel like the reason he has said emasculated is bc he has no more argument to give and is using THAT to "win." unfortunately when we used to fight (we fought pretty nasty) it was a lot of tit for tat and "i win, youre wrong" mentality. there was no healthy talking. he has admitted to me that he has purposely argued for the sake of arguing so that he doesnt look like the bad guy admitting to these faults bc of his fear of how i would view him as someone who has faulted.
i explained that id much RATHER an admittance and that would actually impress me...and help to move on...

anyway, our arguments have improved dramatically just over the last year. we are not perfect by any means but when i think of emasculating i think of a woman who is constantly putting her husband down and basically calling him a b****. 

i could argue the same thing about him though and say, well he is "de-feminizing" me bc he s not listening to MY feelings. i dont see this is an emasculate/de-feminize issue i see it more as disregarding each others feelings regardless of our gender. we are both at fault in the way we used to argue. now we've learned to stop and acknowledge instead of jumping to "no, you did this!" 


regarding the co-dependency, im not sure if that relates to us. I have my own "life" if you want to call it that, that is separate from him. if anyone, he may be more co-dependent on me/us. He used to have hobbies but work has swallowed him. I have urged him to go back to his sport and or other things, but he isnt motivated to leave the house after all the driving in traffic and working. he seems ok with our little outings together and vacations. he definitely seems happy with that. but i do wish he'd get back to at least one thing he does on his own. neither of us really wants too much time away from each other and we're happy with that. in fact this is going to be pathetic but when im out for just about 2-3 hrs away from the family, i miss them...mommy guilt maybe?

both of us have 'partied' and traveled and have accomplished a lot when we were single both alone and when we dated, so i feel like i got a lot of the social stuff out of my system. we're both homebodies. we're very boring. we're nerdy, but very physically active. i definitely think bc i have more of a social life than him (besides some work functions), he does tend to get 'jealous' that im having fun without him yet he doesnt want to join me. for him for sure, he needs something outside of family/work life.
he has talked about things he d like to do when the kids are less demanding tho. anything trips or outings or activities he s interested i try to make happen for him. so its not like his social needs are ignored. its just always with all of us.

i definitely dont feel stuck with him. I just am insecure when i see him glancing at other women. i have tried to talk about my insecurities with my grief counselor but i really dont see how itll improve? as you said it comes from within. i have thought and thought about WHY i am jealous...esply when before this i was the complete opposite. what is it that i fear? i have friends who' have caught their husbands looking too and they dont seem to care....i always just liken it to the way i was raised...? i feel like its allowing them to do what they want to say "thats what men do, they look.. as long as they arent touching."
can i do that too then? not that i want to.


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

StillSearching said:


> For all your blaming white american family's...etc... is foolish.
> It shows me most of your problems are created by you.
> Do the only thing you can do to fix things......
> Take a good hard look at yourself.
> ...



i think you are mistaken, someone asked me bc i had said we are conservative and religious, if my religion thinks women are inferior to men. I responded no. i also mentioned that its interesting that today when ppl think of conservative traditional families or religion they think stone ages, but just in the 1950s right here in america, women were not looked at the same way as we view them today for the most part. i am not blaming anyone or any culture on anything but i must have caused offense to you since you seem very sensitive to it. theres no perfect religion or culture out there. the reason ive brought all that up is to explain that i am not ok with my husband "just looking" and to me it is on the brink or even feels like cheating....bc im conservative, bc of the way i was brought up.
these days, when i ask my (both white and non white friends) the answer is, thats what guys do.
my husband came from a military family where the wife stayed home and was treated as the cook and cleaner. over the years things have changed of course but the remnants of that era still exist. the father is superior. what he says goes. thats what my husband saw growing up. thats how a lot of white americans lived in the 50s, 60s, maybe 70s too?
trust me there are MANY cultures that are STILL like that or actually worse. women cant speak, men have many wives, etc. i dont think its a BAD thing about men being superior in families...thats just the way it was at the time. and that it could be a reason why he thinks its normal to look...


not sure what you mean by not messing with mother nature? whos messing with what? this really struck a nerve with you, it appears.

in THIS family of mine, my husband is the strength and im the endurance. together, we're the power. we have a very balanced system. im not a feminist by any means! i cant carry heavy loads and he cant carry children. there are obvious differences in men and women which our religion touches upon too. the problem i have is him LOOKING!
i think cultural media may have played into that, i think maybe the way he was brought up played into this, i think its just natural, but why cant it change? can it change? i never saw my father looking at other women, nor many of my uncles, etc. definitely not staring and associating with, laughing talking, etc. we had separated parties (nothing major, just naturally women flock together and men do with each other). so if a man entered the womans area it was like...whats he doing here?

once my husband said he prefers mixed parties (at a neighbors house...white american). well naturally the women are in one room and the guys in the other. honestly, i dont want to talk to other ppls husbands. id rather chat it up with other moms. and my mom friends arent interested in talking to HIM. so what does that say to me?
i think his issue is part daddy issue since he has been the superior one (which is often typical in...let me rephrase this for you....white, and asian and african cultures), and also bc he is fearful of those tough guy types that may judge him bc he s still kinda nerdy and not into football in cheerleading.

you seem very angry... just know none of this was directed specifically at you.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Omzig19 said:


> StillSearching said:
> 
> 
> > you seem very angry... just know none of this was directed specifically at you.
> ...


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## Omzig19 (Oct 21, 2019)

StillSearching said:


> I'm not angry at all.
> 
> That's the default position most women take when you call them out.
> 
> ...



I’m glad you’re not angry. Still not exactly sure what you’re “calling me out” on. I’ve already admitted I definitely am insecure which is why it bothers me that it’s acceptable to some that men can look at other women in front of their wives...or simply the idea that men have less control when it comes to that stuff...I have a son and I hope he is not labeled as “guys are guys” when he is disrespecting a female...

You’re right when you say “you can only fix yourself.”
Ppl can’t change others unless they want to be changed. The change I’m trying to make is not get so offended by my husband or making it clear the boundaries I’d like in this marriage.
Being in forums for 17 yrs isn’t exactly the same as counseling ppl in real life. The good thing about them is that those who are afraid to speak to people in person “hide behind the screen” whether it is to divulge in insecurities (like mine), releasing anger towards a particular gender, race, or religion, or admitting things they wouldn’t admit in real life. Sometimes it’s a new way of bullying.

Your quote is great too. There’s ppl who talk a lot (like me!) and there’s those who like having the last word with short responses that don’t make sense. Sometimes that’s viewed as a release of negative energy. Esply if you’re not exactly offering advice and rather reacting.
So, in other words, I now understand why you responded to my post.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Omzig19 said:


> StillSearching said:
> 
> 
> > You’re right when you say “you can only fix yourself.”
> ...


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