# GF has male friends that are more then friends..



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Not an infidelity thing.. But I am having some issues here.. As you can imagine it is causing me triggers..

The simple gist of it is as follows..

I am discovering the current GF has male friends that basically are into her.. They want to be more then friends.. 

Her on the other hand swears they never had any romantic interest or at least on her part. So nutshell the feelings are one way..

My rational part tells me if she wanted to be with them then she would have been with them.. 

But insane part ( thanks to the Ex ) wants to erase these men off the earth.. 

I explained to her that having men around that basically want to fvck you is no good on many levels.. I also explained that for me it leaves the door open for the guy she might actually want to fvck on side that comes in under the guise of being a friend. 

I being a man am very territorial. I don't want any guy around my woman that wants to fvck her straight and simple, even if she will never or has never fvcked this man.. 

She understands and part of it she sort of admitted was maybe the attention she used to have.. 

What made this all come out is basically she was talking to one such man as they discussed their personal relationships.. She stated she loved me to him and in a nutshell he basically said to her *"your a rebound and he is going to use you and then kick you to the curb and crush your heart" *

As you can imagine I got pissed off.. To me this guy is nothing but trying to c0ckblock me as he know if he lets this relationship flourish, he will never have a chance to break it up.. 

I simply told her she needed to terminate this friendship if she wanted to be with me. 

Again I expressed to her that I am uncomfortable with having any man around my woman that has other intentions beyond a true friendship and her trying lie to me about this really sets me back and shuts me down emotionally.. 

To me her lying about something as stupid as this and add on top she supposably loves me. It pretty much is almost pushing me to break this off with her. I cannot handle the emotions this trigger is causing me straight and simple.. I truly do not want to break it off with her, but my inner Betrayed spouse voice is telling me don't do this to protect myself and my feelings..

Now flash to what is going on now.. 

Weeks ago she told a male friend ( you see where this is going ) who plays in a metal band that we were going to see him play.. 

He knows I'm coming.. 

But just today about 1 hour ago I just hit her up with the simple question. This guy is a friend right ? Or this another guy that wants to fvck you..

She couldn't answer straight and then finally replies.. He's a man.. Which of course means yes...

So I have issues with the guy friend / fvck thing and I have issue with her keeping this from me.. 

The lying is what is killing me with her.. Its not some blasphemous imperial lie.. But it is retarded for her to try to dodge this.. 

So simply am I being retarded about this and just need to trust her or am I right not to like this sort of stuff..

Again part of me is rational and tells me there is no evidence of her cheating.. That is something the therapist actually discussed last week with me related to something else.. He mentioned, where is the evidence when you think these thoughts. He expressed that this is what I need to think when I get these thoughts.. 

So I can see I am sort of accusing her of cheating when there is nothing there.. Which is not fair.. 

But the lying is crushing me.. 

I intend on explaining this to her again..

But am I going overboard with this stuff.. At least the friends issue..

part of me feels like I am a controlling tyrant.. 

I am thinking suck this up and let it go.. If something happens that I don't like.. Then I'm out.. Meaning this fvck friend shows up at the house.. ETC


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Is there really a question in here that you don't already know the answer to yourself or are you just looking for affirmation for what you already know to be true?

C'mon, brother. You've been blindly down this road before. I'm quite sure you don't want to go down there again with eyes wide open.

Fool me once.......

You've got yourself an attention ho.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

You are not being retarded. You know your boundaries, express them openly and demand respect in turn. I see nothing wrong with that.

If she sees anything wrong with that, especially after all that talk about "male friends / they want to fvck you / yes i know / then what the hell", you might as well show her to exit.


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## Feel-Free (Sep 22, 2013)

Consider your feelings around the idea you have of how she's lying to you regarding these friends of hers. How do you feel? Insecure? Sad? Angry? Confused? Vulnerable? Maybe a little of all of these? Consider bringing these feelings into conversation with her by telling her where you're really at. Is that scary for you? 

Ultimately, if the 2 of you can't rely on the other to be honest and forthcoming with the truth of your feelings, then it becomes very hard when the feelings at hand happen to be challenging ones, like the mistrust and concern you have around her friends. You have to be able to own up to your jealousies, and she has to be able to own up to her attention needs and her truth around flirting or whatever she gets from hanging around other guys. As you both develop more effective communication skills, you'll feel more secure and able to properly assess what's happening with people outside your relationship. 

Worrying about all the other guys will get you nowhere fast. I think you know that already. If you can't form a trusting environment with your girl, then you will forever be at the effect of your own worst fears. 

Good luck with how you both approach this. Being kind and generally less accusatory with each other also really helps.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would be as accepting as you have been. It will never end. She is who she is.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

What did she say her answer was to the rebound comment? It's kind of beside the point, but it would shed some light onto her attitude. Which sucks for you at the moment, wtf is she doing discussing your relationship with another man? Huge boundary violation, just massive! That's the sort of thing that builds intimacy, she should be having those talks with you. 

Can you be more specific about the lying you talk about? Like she is downplaying the talks, or not being forthcoming with the details?

Have you read Not Just Friends? Has she? How about No More Mr Nice Guy? Are you a Nice Guy?


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

"She couldn't answer straight and then finally replies.. He's a man.. Which of course means yes..."

You know as well as I do that this could also mean "in fact i would want to bang him too, now that you've asked.."

3putt's "attention horr" is quite accurate IMHO.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

bryanp said:


> If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would be as accepting as you have been. It will never end. She is who she is.


I spoke to her a bit about it over the phone..

Not what I wanted to do but it is what it is..

Nutshell she said its different because she is a woman and I am man.. She is a special Ed teacher with as double masters.. I want to virtually slap her into reality.. 

I gave her a scenario.. We go to a party and the wife of a man hits on me.. I reject her and tell the GF.. 

I ask her what do we do ? 

What is the next move ?

Her answer is nothing.. 

I told her if the roles were reversed, I would knock the sh1t out of the guy and we wouldn't be friends anymore.. Straight and simple.

Granted I might have not resorted to violence but I would not let it just go as the NORM..

She thought I was nuts.. 

I am starting to see that this is the norm for her.. I am starting to think it might be a Russian thing.. Who knows.. 

I explained to her I never hit on my friends wives and they never hit on mine for what I know of.. This is why they are friends.. That is the whole point of friends.. There is a mutual respect that comes with friendship.. 

She is admits it can be an issue.. But she goes of on a rant *" Great I won't have any friends"*

I tell her to cut that sh1t out trying to twist it around. I retroceded, you can have all the female friends you want.. 

Going over now to talk to her about this.. I don't see this turning out well..


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Her lying to you is not a real good way to keep the fires of a relationship going. It's obvious that your boundaries and hers are very different and there needs to be changes.

It sounds like you've already been burned once before. That sort of thing stays with anyone and if your gut is telling you that something isn't right with her, then your probably right. She likes the attention she's getting from these other guys and to me she's using it to her advantage on you. Honestly if you feel uncomfortable in the relationship and have already expressed you feelings about it to her and she's done nothing to correct it, then maybe you should break camp and move on and find someone who is more considerate with your feelings.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

She's telling you little white lies now...

...before you know it, they'll be big black ones.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Writing is on the wall buddy, telling you now!!!

Time to end it and save a load of hassle, plenty of single chicks out there who would respect your boundaries as far as male friends go.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

How long have you been dating, OP, and have you had the exclusivity talk with your GF?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

verpin zal said:


> "She couldn't answer straight and then finally replies.. He's a man.. Which of course means yes..."
> 
> You know as well as I do that this could also mean "in fact i would want to bang him too, now that you've asked.."
> 
> 3putt's "attention horr" is quite accurate IMHO.


This just mean he's like every other man around a decent looking woman.

You say she has lied twice, what were the lies?


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

She is addicted to the attention that she receives, this is not good for a long term relationship. I think that I would throttle this relationship back if I were you.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

wranglerman said:


> Writing is on the wall buddy, telling you now!!!
> 
> Time to end it and save a load of hassle, plenty of single chicks out there who would respect your boundaries as far as male friends go.


:iagree: This one isn't a shade of gray
If she can't respect something basic like that I mean come on.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

VFW said:


> She is addicted to the attention that she receives, this is not good for a long term relationship. I think that I would throttle this relationship back if I were you.


I would go cold on her for a bit make her wonder what you are up to jmo.

She already knows where you stand.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> This just mean he's like every other man around a decent looking woman.
> 
> You say she has lied twice, what were the lies?


Yes, I'm trying to understand what she's lied over, OP? I think this and the length of time you've been dating plus the exclusivity talk question I posted previously is important for us to know.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I think current modern attitudes make a real mess of boundaries and blur them terribly. People have to have rock solid morals and complete awareness to deal with these things properly. Often these come with experience. Or to be in a truly committed relationship i.e. marriage, kids. How long have you been together?

Modern attitudes, all that feminist, sexist, singular, I do what I want attitude, I have freedom and you are restricting me, controlling, blah blah blah, have become damaging to what a relationship should be.

Boundaries are skewed. Our grandparents knew about boundaries, as did all the generations before them. It seems our generation has lost its way to a great degree.

Your gf is not a BS (I assume), and is a modern woman. Thus, she can have all the guy friends she wants who wish to fu*k her, and if you don't like it you are some neanderthal man who wants to control her. Or possibly a more watered down version. You will have to teach her that awareness that she doesn't have, or just ditch her for not 'getting it'. If she doesn't get it, you will have big problems. 

I don't think you are wrong for being uncomfortable with this scenario. But I think you are going to have an uphill struggle (I am assuming you have not been together for years?). She is your gf and not your wife, she is a victim of the modern age of slack principles and lack of insight to the male female dynamic. She can have a bf, have sex, ditch, find a new one....there is nothing immoral about having guy friends who want to fu*k her.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Remains said:


> I think current modern attitudes make a real mess of boundaries and blur them terribly. People have to have rock solid morals and complete awareness to deal with these things properly. Often these come with experience. Or to be in a truly committed relationship i.e. marriage, kids. How long have you been together?
> 
> Modern attitudes, all that feminist, sexist, singular, I do what I want attitude, I have freedom and you are restricting me, controlling, blah blah blah, have become damaging to what a relationship should be.
> 
> ...


The trouble is, people get involved way too quickly, IMO, without agreeing where the relationship is heading. I would never sleep with anyone until the relationship had become exclusive, and this would be the time to start setting boundaries in the relationship regarding opposite sex friends.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Dating is to determine suitability... Not to mold a person.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

She sounds like she gets off on attention, which means she's most likely insecure, which makes her even more likely to screw you over. She has a lot of male friends, some of which are actively trying to **** up your relationship and you're having to explain to her what the problem is??? Dude seriously??? End that and find someone else. Shouldn't even have to tell you this.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

My standard response to a situation where someone is uncomfortable or unhappy about something their partner is doing: You have every right to feel the way you do about it. There is no requirement that you conform to what anyone else thinks. There is no requirement that your partner understand or agree with your feelings or opinions.

Ergo, if it bothers you, it bothers you!

I will add that I think you are well within norms for how you feel about this. There are some male friendships which would be ok for your girlfriend to maintain in terms of them not being a real threat. These are not in that category! So yes I think there is a real threat, and most men would recognize it and feel the way you do.

Trust your gut!!!!!

She has very poor boundaries around your relationship. She's gonna fall sooner or later.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

She's not a keeper. Kick her to the curb and move on to the next one.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Remains said:


> there is nothing immoral about having guy friends who want to fu*k her.


You hit the nail on the head here.. 

We spoke.. 

I think I went overboard.. 

She said in a nutshell 

*"Me being honest with you is causing these issues.. I am afraid to tell you the truth because, you say you want the truth. But reality is you can't handle it.. Just because he might have wanted to do something, I've know this person for years.. Long before you.. I never fvcked him then.. But NOW, that your here with me, NOW I am gonna fvck him ?.. I should have just said no he is a friend and lied to you." 

"The reality is every woman you meet is going to have someone that is a male friend that has tried to fvck them.. It doesn't mean they fvcked them though.. But you just can't toss away a friendship all the time because someone might try something and then be turned down.. They try, I say no.. Its that simple.. It doesn't mean I hate them or now need to cut them loose.. It doesn't mean they are bad people.."

"If any woman you meet today that tells you no about their male friends not trying to make a move is lying to you.. But me for telling you the truth.. I get punished for it.."*

*"You have me wrapped around your finger and your pushing me away creating a scenario where I am lying to you.. Your just waiting for that shoe to drop.. I'm not your ex-wife. "*


I fvcked up.. But was able to apologize and she luckily understood.

Luckily I can post here and get some quick insight from people.. Even with therapy every week I can still see my Ex really fvcked me up.. But I learned from this big time..

About the lying..

Basically she was hesitant because of how I get.. My fortune is she will begrudgingly will do what I request because she loves me. 

But I know if I keep fvcking this up, I will loose that..


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

You are not being too controlling. A few years ago my stbxh had a woman friend. He always maintained they were friends. I did nothing because I didn't want to seem controlling. Big mistake. We were going through a rough patch and she would fill his head with things like "you are too good for her" "you deserve better, she is not good for you, she will make you so unhappy" blah blah blah. She disliked me inmensily. Fast forward to now that we are separated. In any event no good comes from people who want to fvck your significant other.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> You hit the nail on the head here..
> 
> We spoke..
> 
> ...


Oh, well this changes my advice for you. You don't necessarily have to kick her to the curb immediately. You can give her an opportunity to write and send no contact letters to her beta orbiters. 

No way you let a woman you're involved in keep her orbiters. They go or you go, she can't have both.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Seeing that she knows what you've been and continue to go through, I would figure she would voluntarily stay away from those freinds that want to fvck her. I mean, wouldn't you think that she'd think that this would be nice to do for the first few months, or so?...

She has to realize that if she were stupid enough to cheat and get caught, you're dumping her. Right?

She keeps male friends. If you feel that she's going, or gone too far with one, you're gone. No questions asked.

It's about all you can do, short of finding a woman that's in the same boat as you(She just dumped her cheating spouse and is feeling like you are. Like we all do, or have felt)...

We should have a site for betrayed spouses. With local chapters across the country/globe. A place where former BS's that want a monogamous relationship can meet others of the same persuasion...

Sorry, got carried away.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

She pulled the "I'm not your ex-wife card" eh? Ouch.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Seeing that she knows what you've been and continue to go through, I would figure she would voluntarily stay away from those freinds that want to fvck her. I mean, wouldn't you think that she'd think that this would be nice to do for the first few months, or so?...
> 
> She has to realize that if she were stupid enough to cheat and get caught, you're dumping her. Right?
> 
> ...


LOL We were already talking about that below in the Life after Divorce..TAM could start its own dating forum.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

So, to summarize, in her view it is fine to hang around with guys who actively seek to penetrate her defenses, because they've always been unsuccessful up to this point?

I don't know, perhaps I'm weird, but I don't generally hang out with women I've tried dating before, successfully or not.

There are still pertinent questions in the posts above you have not answered.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> About the lying..
> 
> Basically she was hesitant because of how I get.. My fortune is she will begrudgingly will do what I request because she loves me.


OK, being hesitant isn't lying, OP... 

I've just checked your profile, and it says that you and your GF have only been together* 1 to 6 months*... If that's nearer to 1 than 6 months, OP, and unless you and she have already had the exclusivity talk, expecting her to jettison all her male friends is unreasonable.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If there is a problem here, and I still have not found the lie, its that you are still not ready to date.

Every woman out there knows men that would drop there pants in a heartbeat to do her. Really, who doesn't know that?


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> Not an infidelity thing.. But I am having some issues here.. As you can imagine it is causing me triggers..
> 
> The simple gist of it is as follows..
> 
> ...


This will end badly for you, sorry. 
I thought you learned your lesson. Nip it in the bud.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> Not an infidelity thing.. But I am having some issues here.. As you can imagine it is causing me triggers..
> 
> The simple gist of it is as follows..
> 
> ...


Sorry, I started reading your post, but got appalled at your use of 'strong language'.

You are clearly an abusive person, indicated by the above. She deserves probably a better person to share her life with. 

Your only hope is to find out with other posters what I am talking about, and if there are other ways to look at life....


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Sorry, I started reading your post, but got appalled at your use of 'strong language'.
> 
> You are clearly an abusive person, indicated by the above. She deserves probably a better person to share her life with.
> 
> Your only hope is to find out with other posters what I am talking about, and if there are other ways to look at life....


An abusive person? Appalled at strong language? Brace yourself but are you f'cking kidding me? Are there children present? Swearing does not make someone abusive, otherwise I would have been hauled off a long time ago. Chill the hell out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Until not very long ago, I was just like your girlfriend. The type of pretty girl whose self esteem only thrived on attention from males. 

Just like your girlfriend, I had plenty of male friends who wanted me in bed and even told me so clearly; I had zero attraction toward them, but enjoyed their company, the flirting, and knowing that they wanted me. This type of friends would come over running at a phone call; would fix things in my house or run errands for me; would listen to boyfriends trouble ( was unaware at that time of how inappropriate this is, and of the term EA ) and would comfort me telling me how beautiful I was and how they dream of me and would treat a woman like me like a queen if they had one. My confidence was getting a boost; so I tend to believe your girlfriend that she has no interest in them, but she fails to see that once in a committed relationship, these friendships have to go.

Once I stumbled upon TAM about 2 years ago and started reading threads, I came to the realizations that two very close, long term male friends had to go, and asap. I started to comprehend how inappropriate and wrong it was to confide in them with my marriage problems; how offended my husband would be if he knew, based on the majority of the members opinion in similar situations. I was horrified. Was I in EA's? What have I done? 

Both these friends were infatuated with me; my H knew them and believed there was nothing, so he allowed me to have them as friends. He did not know though the content of my conversations, and the level of infatuation on their side. Once I understood how wrong it was - thanks CWI - I told one of them I realized this is wrong and can't go on hanging around and talking that way anymore, while with the second I simply stopped contact; I do respond sometimes to his texts, but cut all EA- like stuff. Strictly a polite, amicable tone.

The hardest part was the realization that I needed to tell H about those improper conversations, and why I am letting these people go. He listened very carefully, and as I promised to cut them off, and did so, he forgave me and believed me. I know he did not like to hear that, but he gave me credit for coming clean by my own choice.

I had no feelings for those male friends. There was no EA from my side. Still you should never accept sweet talk , flirting, from someone other than your SO, much less vent about your spouse to them. It's nobody's business what goes on in your relationship. Go talk to your spouse and fix your issues yourselves. No one else can. Lesson hard learnt.

OP, direct your girlfriend to this forum. Hopefully reading it will help her as it helped me, understand that she is doing wrong. 
If she does not, please consider finding another girlfriend.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

HTH,

A good relationship has good boundaries. Remember Robert Frost's Poem, Mending Wall.... 'Good Fences make Good Neighbors'...

It is really simple. You GF does not know how to set proper boundaries. She is used to doing things a certain way, having so much male attention around.... I have had to go through some of this with my gf.

Here is the crux of the matter. You are her boyfriend. If you are in the part of a relationship where you are exclusive, i.e. you have peed on your trees and it is clear then it is simple.

It is ok if she has male friends. It is not OK for them to be calling her, texting her, emailing her all the time to 'chat' unless they are gay.... Otherwise, as adults who are not deluding themselves, they want more than to be friends....

It is not OK for them to ask HER to go do something. It is ok for them to ask YOU TWO to do something. It is not OK for them to talk bad about you, not even knowing you. This is definitely signs that they want to be MORE than friends. You are taking away their dream.... They are in the 'friends' zone. That is their stupid fault. The first day I met my gf, I planted one right on her. I figured I would either get slapped or not.... turns out not , but I made damn sure I did not get mired in the abyss called the friends zone. These are guys who don't have backbones but they want the same thing as you. (her)

Your gf might have 2 masters degrees. She may be somewhat intelligent, but honestly she is dumb as a rock when it comes to the real world and what guys want. She studied out of a book but her life is a little cloistered. 

You set your boundaries of what is proper. She should never allow her friends, male or female to talk bad about you. If you do something stupid, well that may be different. Her male friends should never be asking just her out ever. That is way over the line. They don't respect the boundary of your relationship. If she doesn't respect you, it is time to walk.

This isn't a control issue. It is not an insecurity issue, but some of the things she does trigger you I know. This is about setting proper boundaries in a relationship. If she isn't willing to do that, she is NOT a keeper. There are plenty of great women out there. She may not be the one for you. Have the discussion and see where it goes.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Hortensia,

Just wanted to say that was one of the posts that I have read on this forum over the years that I have like the very most! Thank you for that!


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Thank you for your kind words, MovingAhead. This forum has helped me understand relationships better. I now can avoid common mistakes that I used to make. 
As for the males I have let go, close as they were and everything, I don't miss them at all. I'm glad I let them go and stopped what I was doing before a big big sh1t to hit the fan. Was so caught up in my vanity, in my need of validation, that that small, low voice of conscience that whispered "this may not be ok ", turned mute. But TAM changed that. And I'm thankful. Wish I found it earlier.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Your boundaries and her boundaries are different. Neither are wrong, just not right for each other. You are attracted to each other, but can't find a workable compromise. Let her go as you are never going to be comfortable with her short of controlling her, which will wreck things anyway.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> I spoke to her a bit about it over the phone..
> 
> Not what I wanted to do but it is what it is..
> 
> ...


Dude, how much advice have you given to others. Step back and read what you are writing, as others have said you know very well the answers to the questions you ask.

My own personal opinion. She may not be cheating and she may not be leading them on per say, but she knows what she is doing, she knows how you feel about it but still continues to do so. If she knows a dude wants to bang her, why in the heck is she talking about your relationship with such intimacy?

A man trying to get with a women will often try to do so through the friendship route, we know this. Gets her comfortable, then gets her to open up about herself and about her relationship, solely with the purpose of if things gets rough he'll be there to catch her..heck it may not even come to that, he may just ramp up the attraction and by pass all that.

She knows how you feel yet still persists to keep talking to these men, make dates, she lies, she argues. 

*What is it in her personality that needs this constant validation?*

Because trust me the second she's not getting what she feels is adequate validation from you, guess what's going to happen. She'll get it from somewhere else.

You caught her in a pattern of lying and questionable intentions. Why chance it?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Let me tell you about Me and Mrs. Jones. 

Mrs. Jones lives across the street. Our situation is different because we are both married, yet I think the concepts apply. The Jones' moved into their home 15 years ago and had young kids the same ages as ours. My wife and I became fast friends with Mr. and Mrs. Jones.

Mrs. Jones is a former model, and has that girl next door appeal. There is electricity in the air every time we are within sight of each other. Seriously I wonder if anyone else feels it. I know Mrs. Jones does.

As a result, we both have an unspoken rule. We are never alone together. Never, except every once in a while we happen to check our mailboxes from across the street at the same time.

We've never traded any words which would not be said in front of our spouses. We've never given each other long lingering looks or winks or played footsie under the dinner table when we have our annual New Years Eve get together.

And yes I have always had a strong urge to fvck her. It is just an animal brain thing.

But we both have strong boundaries. I respect her and her husband and her family too much to put any of them in a bind, in addition to having strong boundaries around my own marriage.

It would be wrong for either of us to complain about marriage issues to each other, or to confide other private personal information. So we are able to have a good friendship with boundaries.

As soon as someone crosses those boundaries it becomes risky business.


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## PappyJack (Nov 1, 2013)

HtH, she's just not that into you.
Improve yourself, improve the relationship, or walk.
It's not like you are ten years married.

Improve yourself means become the man she adores and thus is not interested in other men (um, a LOT of work).
Improve the relationship means work like a dog on this for years with hope of possible results.
Walk means find someone who IS into you.

With the time invested, I would take a stroll.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

A friend that is not a friend of the mariage is an enemy of the marriage.

Now, I realize that you two aren't married. But let me ask you this. If you were to get married would she give up all these friends once she states her vows? If you believe that the answer is yes then proceed on with the relationship. If you know in your heart that she wouldn't remove these toxic friends from her life then this relationship is not going anywhere permanent. In that case then you have to decide whether being with her the way things are right now is fun for you. If the answer is yes then stop worrying about her friends and don't even be concerned if she ends up having sex with any of them because you are only with her for fun and for now. If her friends are really bothering you and you aren't having fun and you know this isn't anything that can last then why are you with her?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

And OP, let me add this one thing. Next time she goes off on a rant like that again ask her this. "In an exclusive relationship where both parties are committed to each other is it acceptable for either party to surround themselves with people that want to damage that relationship in any way? Would she be okay if you surrounded yourself with friends that continued to tell you that she was a s!ut and that you could do better? Would she be okay with you having female friends that constantly flirted with you and tried to bed you?"

What shs did there was called a fitness (sh!t) test and from what I see....you failed.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP, you know what your boundaries are for a committed relationship. If her values and beliefs do not align, then you are not likely to be successful. That's part of dating. 

She's not your wife, she's a GF that you have a few months time invested with. Is the risk of continued investment from yourself worth the potential benefit of a long term relationship?

Those are questions you need to answer for yourself, just as she needs to answer them for herself.

Personally, if this is truly supposed to be an exclusive and committed relationship- it doesn't sound to me like she's keeping her end of the bargain.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

lisab0105 said:


> An abusive person? Appalled at strong language? Brace yourself but are you f'cking kidding me? Are there children present? Swearing does not make someone abusive, otherwise I would have been hauled off a long time ago. Chill the hell out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


QED


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Just wanted to fill in some gaps..


She has been separated 2 1/2 years.. 

From what I understand, again from her words.. It has taken her 40 years to know love.. She tells me I am the first person she is in love with. 

We did have a long talk about this stuff over the past 2 days.. Last night was pretty much close to us being done with each other.. We both pretty much clashed heads over this stuff.

Here is her side of sorts..

She cut out one guy per my request..
She cut out another guy a while back because of inappropriate advances or comments.. 
This last person she has know for over 20 years.. She barely speaks with him at all if anything. She tells me he expressed interest in her long time ago. Maybe 15 years ago.. She was married then and never entertained it and shot him down immediately.. 
She does admit that she might have some issues with wanting attention. She didn't realize it before but can see it now.. She had a 2nd child and it added some weight to her. I seen images of her 3 to 4 years ago and she was a knock out. Not that she isn't now, but I can see what the attraction was.

She admits that her Ex was tired of going out because of the fights he would get into because of her. Men would make advances in front of her husband.. 

I think part of this is honestly a Russian community thing. Part of me feels the men just don't give a sh1t and will challenge another man for a woman. 

She professes her undying love for me which I appreciate but take with a grain of salt because of everything I have been through. 

She has offered me full access to her phone and computer. She clearly knows I have the skills to undelete stuff and find anything she might have deleted. She again has offered me access knowing this. 

As far as going to see this guy in his band. She clearly told me we don't need to go and does not want to go. She does not want me to feel uncomfortable at all. 

Once we calmed down, She made it perfectly clear to me that I was her main and only concern.. She would show me and do anything I wanted. 

Here is something I need to explain which sort of runs some parallels on this..

I have a female friend on my FaceBook that I dated 20 years ago. We had sex.. But that was 20 years ago. She is still single and we had some conversations prior to my current GF.. Conversations that I would have a very hard time explaining to my GF.. Granted these are prior to her but they still fall into this double standard. 

Nutshell I am telling her its not okay to have a guy who might be interested in her, but I have a friend from 20 years ago that I actually had sex with. 

I just wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But again beyond flirtatious talking it has never gone further then that. I had my chances.. But I just never did.

So when I seen Remains post. It sort of reminded me of my friend. I didn't realize until then I was playing double standards in a sort of way. But the reality is mine is worse.. Again assuming she is telling me the truth that they are only friends and never dated. 

The only thing I can say is she might be lying and he could have been an old boyfriend that she dated after her Ex and before me and now is covering it up and changing his status because of how I feel. But even so I am the Pot calling the kettle black... 

But again I cannot make up these fantasy stories either without evidence.. Where is the evidence. In the end there is no evidence to this.

So the only thing I have is what she has told me.. Old friend of 20 years that expressed some interest in her.. I asked if he ever wanted to fvck her and she said if he ever said something like that to her, he wouldn't be a friend. She states basically that he expressed liking her.. EG would love to take you out on a date.. 


I expressed to her what I expected out of her. I gave her a scenario of her walking into a bar.. I simply explained if your walking into a bar to meet me and your eyes are on me and you are dressed to impress me then I'm okay with it. But if your walking into a bar to meet me but you are looking at every guy as you come towards me to see if they are looking at you then we have an issue.

She assured me that anything she does is for me and she felt bad that I thought of her in that way of being some sort of **** or wh0re.. 

Honestly I felt bad myself for painting her in that color. But I needed to get my point across. 

We went into further discussions about our relationship and it seemed good or she was good at giving me lip service.. 

A few times I said some nice things to her about us and she commented are you just telling me things you think I want to hear or do you really mean it. 

So I think I/we need to see how this goes.. 

I think going to this concert will be fine honestly. But I am of two thoughts here.. Either we go and its a nightmare where this guy is all over her or tells me they dated and isn't gonna keep it a secret and I should grow up a bit. 

OR

He is a perfect gentleman and we have a good time. 

For me either way I get to see what the reality is. I get to see how this guy acts and I get to see how the GF acts.. She isn't good at lying as you can see. 

If it falls apart then at least I get to see first hand.. 

But I think I expressed to her well enough what I wanted, what my issues were. 

Again I am playing a double standard here and I am complaining about something I am guilty myself of.. 

BTW we are exclusive..


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Here is a dumb question.. 

How do I address the issue of her talking to someone about our relationship when I am here talking to you guys about it.. 

Again do you see my point ?

I expressed it regardless and I told her you want to know about me or something related to me call my 2 friends that known me for a very long time. They know me and have no interest in you.. They will give you an unbiased opinion.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> Here is a dumb question..
> 
> How do I address the issue of her talking to someone about our relationship when I am here talking to you guys about it..
> 
> ...


We are anonymous disconnected people with directly relevant experience, and the conversation is public. Completely different than talking privately. face to face.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> Here is a dumb question..
> 
> How do I address the issue of her talking to someone about our relationship when I am here talking to you guys about it..
> 
> ...


To answer your question above, none of us have ever expressed any romantic interest in you. 

About your pot/kettle comparison with talking to your ex-GF from 20 years ago. Have you been in contact with her since you started dating your current GF?


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> To answer your question above, none of us have ever expressed any romantic interest in you.
> 
> About your pot/kettle comparison with talking to your ex-GF from 20 years ago. Have you been in contact with her since you started dating your current GF?


Yes.. 

She reached out to me early on in my current relationship.. Maybe a week or two after we started going out. She didn't know I was dating anyone. But there was no chat of dating each other, but there was sexual tension. 

Then she reached out to me about a week ago after reading a comment about love on Facebook. Basically it was a dig at how woman fall in love with me... I commented back they don't know me well enough yet to know that I am actually crazy.. LOL.. 
She replied back with an LOL and that was the end of the conversation.. 

So I am guilty.. 
I just didn't see it ( I actually didn't recall until that comment, epiphany moment ) until Poster Remains made the comment..


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> We are anonymous disconnected people with directly relevant experience, and the conversation is public. Completely different than talking privately. face to face.


So there is no confusion.. There was no face to face.. Just texting or phone conversations.

At least that is what I am being told.. Again no evidence that would make be believe otherwise.. So I hold it true.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

I think I had some concerns.

But I think I came out too fast with guns blazing.. I blame my Ex for this insane posture..


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> I think I had some concerns.
> 
> But I think I came out too fast with guns blazing.. I blame my Ex for this insane posture..


It's all good HTH be cool,calm, and confident.

Give it a little time and look at her actions not words.
Rooting for you.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> So there is no confusion.. There was no face to face.. Just texting or phone conversations.
> 
> At least that is what I am being told.. Again no evidence that would make be believe otherwise.. So I hold it true.


In that case, the key words were :
anonymous, public and, from the other poster, a lack of romantic interest. Still very different. I don't attach a sense of intimacy to anyone on this site, despite sharing intimate details back and forth. It doesn't work like that when you share the same details privatrly, with a specific person I think. That's how you head into the 'soulmate' territory, the 'your the only person who really knows and understands me' bs.

On here, anyone who says that will likely get called on it.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok, you've had contact with an ex-GF. Are you willing to stop? Is your current GF willing to stop contact with her orbiters? See the difference? You're willing to abide by this very reasonable boundary, your GF is not. She wants you and her backups.

Set your boundary and live with it. Either you're going to have a normal relationship with a woman or you're going to have a half open relationship with cheating women. 

This is not an unreasonable boundary, it's actually very reasonable and in your best interest. If you're not going to enforce it you're likely to end up back in CWI.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Ok, you've had contact with an ex-GF. Are you willing to stop? Is your current GF willing to stop contact with her orbiters? See the difference? You're willing to abide by this very reasonable boundary, your GF is not. She wants you and her backups.
> 
> Set your boundary and live with it. Either you're going to have a normal relationship with a woman or you're going to have a half open relationship with cheating women.
> 
> This is not an unreasonable boundary, it's actually very reasonable and in your best interest. If you're not going to enforce it you're likely to end up back in CWI.


Thank you and everyone else..

This is what I like about this site.. You can get some good info in good time.. Its like having a conscious or another brain that is just thinking clearly for you when you can't..

We talked some more today about it for another reason. I like that she understood the morality behind my questions..

Basically some question came up about a musician she dated in the past from someone else who knows her. It was innocent but it brought me straight to this person.. I asked her today if she in fact dated this person she said was just a friend and I explained why I was asking.. 

She stated no, that this musician was someone else totally different. 

Of course it set her off on another tangent and I explained to her calmly. Look I asked you a question, you gave me answer. I am fine with your answer.. If anything I am going to be honest here, you getting bent out of shape sort of sounds like your trying to flip the situation to defend yourself.. You said you never dated this guy and I believe you.. 

Lets pretend you did for argument sake and your just stuck in this lie of now saying you never did. I am a firm believer in karma/fate.. This eventually will come out somehow, in some retarded way.. Maybe not today, tomorrow but one day someone will slip up.. It is then you will have to pay for this lie.. It might be as simple as water under the bridge or it might be us breaking up.. Its not me playing this russian roulette of sorts here.. That is you.. But I am fine with your answer.. 

I cannot accept your answer, say it is fine with me and then beat you up over it.. It just isn't fair to you..


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

tell her she can have all the guy friends she wants...tell her to find a new boyfriend as well

you guys arent married, you can JUST WALK...why on earth would you put up with this sheet

or you can continue to complain and whine and maybe she will agree...then when you get married and you CANT just walk, she can resume being friends with all these dudes...its comforting her to know she has SO many options, she will never be yours...

get the hell out of this toxic relationship...


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Sorry, I started reading your post, but got appalled at your use of 'strong language'.
> 
> You are clearly an abusive person, indicated by the above. She deserves probably a better person to share her life with.
> 
> Your only hope is to find out with other posters what I am talking about, and if there are other ways to look at life....


I wanted to address this but didn't want to derail my own thread..

Strong language ? Sorry but I wanted to make it clear what exactly I was saying.. The reality is these "friends" no matter how nice they might be, in the end are looking to get naked with the woman I am with.. Sorry but that is reserved for me and only me.. Been there and done that already with my STBXW.. As you can see it didn't fare so well for me me in the past..

But sorry I don't see the abusive part.. I carry my gun to the corner store.. I have it on top of my nightstand next to me when I sleep at night.. But it doesn't mean I go around shooting people.. 

I'm not going to beat around the bush per say.. I want to get straight to the point and cut out all the red tape and nonsense. So I ask what I need to ask from her.. In turn I understand I need to accept her answers unless I have evidence that proves otherwise.. 

But I will ask you, are you a B.S. or W.W. spouse ? By looking at your posting Statistics I am getting the impression you are neither.. So I dare ask, why are you here ?..


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> tell her she can have all the guy friends she wants...tell her to find a new boyfriend as well
> 
> you guys arent married, you can JUST WALK...why on earth would you put up with this sheet
> 
> ...


Unless I know otherwise its not all.. I would say its one atm.. 

I agree with what you are saying but I am sort of beating a dead horse here with her.. I need to make sure I am not blowing something up more than what they really are.. 

It could be me.. 
She isn't fighting me on this but is getting upset because she fears I'm becoming controlling or panicking over everyone she dated.. 

Again something that needs to be cleared up. I'm cool with moving on if it is her.. But if its me I need to own up to my mistakes and insecurities..


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

SadandAngry said:


> In that case, the key words were :
> *anonymous, public and, from the other poster, a lack of romantic interest. * Still very different. I don't attach a sense of intimacy to anyone on this site, despite sharing intimate details back and forth. It doesn't work like that when you share the same details privatrly, with a specific person I think. That's how you head into the 'soulmate' territory, the 'your the only person who really knows and understands me' bs.
> 
> On here, anyone who says that will likely get called on it.


And no possibility at all that there is any form of competition.

My fiance has tried to frame all the discussions about me that he had with his EA as "isn't this what friends do, ie, talk about personal issues and help one another."

To which I answered "you're too smart to believe your own propaganda. I know this because of the many times you told your EA how smart you are. Therefore, you know as well as I do, she always felt that she was in competition with me and therefore, not a suitable person to confide in."


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Hardtohandle,

Here is the thing you need to keep in mind. Some women do like to have men as friends. She might be this kind of a woman. Can you handle that or not. It sounds like you are having difficulty with it. There are things you can do. Go make friends with other women. Put the shoe on the other foot. Let her wonder about what is going on and where you are at. I don't consider myself to be a controlling man but if my wife is going to have men as friends she needs to leave. I don't have women that are friends. She and I have a mutual respect that way. If she should ever cross the line she knows I will leave and I wont even tell her. I have been cheated on by women. This is one area I wont compromise. You have to decide is she the right woman for you. Will all this be worth it. 

Clay


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> Unless I know otherwise its not all.. I would say its one atm..
> 
> I agree with what you are saying but I am sort of beating a dead horse here with her.. * I need to make sure I am not blowing something up more than what they really are..
> 
> ...



It's not you! It's a perfectly reasonable boundary designed to protect your relationship!

Quit taking the blame for everything. She's not as invested in this relationship as you are, and you shouldn't be either. This woman is not a keeper. She's already calling you controlling, if that's not a huge red flag to you it should be.

Please read No More Mr. Nice Guy.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Hardtohandle said:


> As far as going to see this guy in his band. She clearly told me we don't need to go and does not want to go. She does not want me to feel uncomfortable at all.
> .
> .
> .
> I think going to this concert will be fine honestly. But I am of two thoughts here.. Either we go and its a nightmare where this guy is all over her or tells me they dated and isn't gonna keep it a secret and I should grow up a bit.


Man, this is super triggering to me. Been married 31 years. W's first lover was/is a professional musician. The worst day of my life was when she took me to see him play a show when we were engaged. I should have walked away right then. He's been a thorn in this marriage the entire time.

So, you know my bias here!

I say go to the show and observe your girlfriend. Does she look at the guy all starry eyed? Does she flirt with him? What is her body language when around him? Does she show you off to him, or does she snub you when he is close? 

This is your chance to get a good read on her mindset with this particular guy. It also gives you data on what she thinks is allowable behavior when in a committed relationship.

So, if I were you I would go to the show and try as hard as possible to be a dispassionate observer. Any single negative action on her part and I would run like my a$$ is on fire.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

I read all this back to myself probably 5 times now.

Do you actually know what I think it is in a nut shell?

You are dating and getting serious far too soon and need more time out! Seriously dude, the sitch is toxic and gives me real bad vibes! You are asking and setting boundaries which she is kind of jiggling around and turning it on you with what has happened in the past to you, toxic, my previous advice still stands!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

OP, given what you wrote here, your GF sounds like she is saying/doing all the right things, to be honest. She's given up some friends, tried to reassure you.

Now it's up to you to decide whether it's enough. 

While I completely agree that it would bother me A LOT to have a GF that had a lot of guy friends who would love to bang her....it also sounds like she is being pretty reasonable here.

What you really have to figure out is whether you want to be with a woman in her situation, even with the concessions she's made. Otherwise, she'll give up friends, it won't be enough for you, and you'll break up, AND she'll lose friends. So it's really about whether you want/can handle a GF with guy friends.

Another question is: do these guys continue to try to bed her, even when she says she has a boyfriend? Are they relentless? Or, did they stop trying once she rejected them and said she was with you? There's a big difference there.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I think you should reread the advise just given by THOR. I thought he absolutely nailed it.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> OP, given what you wrote here, your GF sounds like she is saying/doing all the right things, to be honest. She's given up some friends, tried to reassure you.
> 
> Now it's up to you to decide whether it's enough.
> 
> ...



Using your statement but commenting in general..

Nutshell Therapist said I'm too controlling and I need to relax.. My thoughts are always about what these men might do, but I never think about what she will do. 

Basically I have no faith in her to do the right thing. That she is weak and will just spread her legs for anyone.. Again where is the evidence.. Why didn't she just bed them before ?.. 

If I accept what he is telling me, which I do. This goes way back to when my father left my mother.. Nutshell I am reverting back to being 12 years old. He is saying because I am so raw over my divorce I creating these situations.

He's basically telling me I need to keep reminding myself not to be so controlling and have some faith and trust in her or I am doomed.. 

And that we need to stop having these conversations, which is what is happening now. Again the drama will just cause us to fizzle out..


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I did a lot of dating before I got married. I observed many girls just like your girlfriend.

The girls with lots of guy friends - I heard the guys called "orbiters" once, I didn't coin the term, but that's how I think of them now. How does a girl keep a lot of guys "in orbit" around her? She never tells them straight out - GET LOST. The orbiters hit on her, either subtly or not so subtly. They tell her, "You are so sexy, if he doesn't treat you right, come and see me," "if you get sick of him, I'm always here for you," or even more direct, "what are you doing with that loser, get with me and I'll treat you right." They may buy her cards, get her flowers, ask her to go out on Valentine's Day, on her birthday, on THEIR birthday. "It's my birthday and I have no one to spend it with, will you go out to dinner with me?" (This last one was the most successful, from my experience). They may get tickets to a hot concert or show, sometimes as part of a big group, and ask her to go: "Hey, I have eight tickets to the sold out concert, Dana, Jenn, Lynn, Jeff, me, Paul, and Bill are going, we have one extra ticket, Joe backed out, do you want to go?" Notice there are three girls and three guys and the orbiter asking your girl to go (and no ticket for you - ever!).

How does a girl with lots of guy friends who hit on her respond to being hit on, either subtly or not so subtly. Usually a casually friendly reply, never telling them to stop hitting on her, just something like, "I have a boyfriend right now." "I just think of you as a good friend." Sometimes she just ignores it and changes the subject.

Why does a girl keep lots of orbiters? They make her feel good about herself. Who wouldn't like people of the opposite sex telling them how good they looked and expressing desire for them? They give her stuff.

They are always there, waiting to pounce, waiting for when she might be out alone after a fight with you, getting a little drunk. They are not ALL always there, but there is always one orbiter or another around, it seems.

As for the orbiters, these guys think your girl is hot and they mostly want to take your place as her boyfriend, though all would be happy with anything they could get. She's not married, so she's still single, and still open game for them.

Yeah, I dated a few of these girls with orbiters, and I watched as my friends and brothers had some of these girls, too. I don't recall you posting how old you are, but this keeps guy "friends" who hit on her around as friends - is child's play. Definitely under 25 type of stuff. After 25, girls seemed to get much more serious, realistic and let go of the orbiters, and became women. I'm speaking in generalities, there are plenty of exceptions, but this was my experience. Sometimes I think this generation is taking a little longer, on average, to grow up.

You make your own decision as to whether she is worth it or not, to put up with the orbiters. You can't shut them down, only she can, but she likes having them there too much to shut them down completely, so there they go, continuing to orbit, because she never completely closes the door.

It usually doesn't cut both ways. She would never tolerate YOU having a girl friend who wanted you sexually but who you said was just a friend. Only time she would tolerate that is if she was done with you, and YOU became the orbiter and one of the orbiters became the boyfriend.

The orbiters RARELY become the boyfriend. They may get to make out with her after giving her the really hot concert ticket, her having a bit to drink, and all the other girls in the group are hooking up with the other guys. Or if she goes out with one of the "orbiter" friends on his birthday, she may make out with him a bit out of pity. They are a side show, to give her attention and fill in the gaps, you are the real deal, someone she is interested in. When she's done with you, she'll find another real deal, and the orbiters still will be orbiters until she grows up, or they grow up, and move on.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> Using your statement but commenting in general..
> 
> Nutshell Therapist said I'm too controlling and I need to relax.. My thoughts are always about what these men might do, but I never think about what she will do.
> 
> ...


No no no no. You're already in trouble my friend. 

This is simply not about your GF having males friends where they all hang out in a group playing scrabble. These are men trying to bang her. These are men she's talking to about your intimate details. There is a man who told her you're going to crush her heart (This dude is undermining you)

You did the rational and understandable thing (after all you've been through) and you talked to her about your concerns and how you didn't like it..yes? You're not going to find 95% of men with girlfriends putting up with their partners having friends who are itching to get them into the sack.

So you talked to her. She kind of gets it, but gives fights you a little. Guilt trips you a little. DOESN'T GET RID OF ANY OF THE FRIENDS. Till the point now where..

Nothing has changed.

YOU are now feeling guilty for being "controlling", even after you did the right thing by going to her and trying to get her to understand where you're coming from and how this isn't by a long shot (by most men's standards) ok.

My view is the issues (baggage) you brought from your previous relationship are still rearing their ugly head. You're giving an inch because you want to save this relationship, so you negotiate and try to bargain with issues that are non negotiable.

i.e You can't nice guy her to drop her friends. The very fact your concerns weren't listened and acted on immediately, should tell you all you need to know about her and the _value _she places in you and this relationship.

The very fact you didn't walk away and are still rationalizing, negotiating and clinging on should tell you all you need to know about yourself, and your ability to cope and deal in a new relationship.

When you found out about the friends, you should have walked immediately, namely because this seems like a pattern of behavior with her. Because it would be unrealistic that she would drop all her friends and most importantly, this was going to be a major major issue for you. Which leads to this point, where something that should be fun and about enjoying each other, turns into negative nonsense and heartache.

Just walk away.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm sorry after that long post a few minutes ago if I got it wrong, but the issue here is NOT that she has male friends, correct? The issue is that she has male friends who HIT on her, express romantic and sexual interest in her, even some that try to get her to DUMP you, and she still keeps them around, right?

As I understand it, you have no problem with her having male friends who are really just friends, your problem is that her male friends all express sexual interest in her, and she still keeps them around as friends while having an exclusive relationship with you. Is this correct?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> I'm sorry after that long post a few minutes ago if I got it wrong, but the issue here is NOT that she has male friends, correct? The issue is that she has male friends who HIT on her, express romantic and sexual interest in her, even some that try to get her to DUMP you, and she still keeps them around, right?
> 
> As I understand it, you have no problem with her having male friends who are really just friends, your problem is that her male friends all express sexual interest in her, and she still keeps them around as friends while having an exclusive relationship with you. Is this correct?


Totally agree with the above. These are not normal restrained male friends, these are scumbags who take every opportunity to hit on her - this environment is not conducive to a healthy relationship - there will come a time when you two have an argument and these guys constant bombardment of sexual innuendos and passes will pay off. If your gut feel tells you it is wrong, then more than likely it is wrong!


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> Using your statement but commenting in general..
> 
> Nutshell Therapist said I'm too controlling and I need to relax.. My thoughts are always about what these men might do, but I never think about what she will do.
> 
> ...


If you don't have faith in her to do the right thing it's because she hasn't shown you she has trustworthy boundaries because she keeps these circling sharks in her orbit. See what your therapist has to say about this.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Your therapist probably has a good read on you. Though I do tend to doubt many therapists' attitude about relationships. That is, many of them tend to think we should just accept anything and everything a partner does as ok. If we have a problem with it, it is our problem. And if we try to adjust our partner's view on it, we are controlling.

Boundaries though are a good thing, and are not controlling. You establish what you are willing to tolerate in your life, and jettison everything which does not meet your standards. You have the right to your standards, whatever they are.

I don't think you have the right to tell her to dump her friends. But you do have the right to tell her you are not comfortable with the nature of some of these friendships, and it impedes your ability to progress further in the relationship.

I think you should view this woman as an accessory to your life. It is nice when she is there, but she is not necessary nor central to your life.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> I wanted to address this but didn't want to derail my own thread..
> 
> Strong language ? Sorry but I wanted to make it clear what exactly I was saying.. The reality is these "friends" no matter how nice they might be, in the end are looking to get naked with the woman I am with.. Sorry but that is reserved for me and only me.. Been there and done that already with my STBXW.. As you can see it didn't fare so well for me me in the past..
> 
> ...


I hung up on the F... this and F... that in expressing your thoughts and actions. Abusive is in many relations a matter of words and behavior. I don't like that at all. I think people like that create their own disaster. No hope unless they change themselves.

Well sorry, you are not like I thought you were, your later posts are more well spoken. 

I am no BS or WS, I am here because I am interested in relations, how to have a good relation, how to avoid the pitfalls, how to repair damage, how to heal yourself and the other person.

Together with my wife I help some people with marriage issues. Most on the part of how to build a stronger marriage. But sometimes you deal with people in betrayal-, abuse- or just empty marriages. For those things is TAM an invaluable source of information because of the condensed experience of thousands of posters, leading to certain pinnacles of diagnose and action plans that are very effective.

And by taking part I sometimes can contribute where I think other posters forgot something or go too fast.

So, sorry if I was wrong in this.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> I'm sorry after that long post a few minutes ago if I got it wrong, but the issue here is NOT that she has male friends, correct? The issue is that she has male friends who HIT on her, express romantic and sexual interest in her, even some that try to get her to DUMP you, and she still keeps them around, right?
> 
> As I understand it, you have no problem with her having male friends who are really just friends, your problem is that her male friends all express sexual interest in her, and she still keeps them around as friends while having an exclusive relationship with you. Is this correct?


Will and the rest that are interested...

It's down to one person ATM that she hasn't seen in months.. She tells me he never said anything sexual beyond expressing an interest in dating her.. She never did date him. 

Again its her words.. I either trust her words or I don't.. Since I don't have any evidence otherwise I have to believe her ATM.. 

The one man that was trying to undermine me has been removed from her life per my request.. 

I have to believe the controlling comments because the last GF made the same comments.. 

I know I am not expressing my thoughts clearly here as my friends understand it a bit more clearly and agree with me going overboard.. 

I think the simple reality is men and woman are going to have some sexual banter and it doesn't mean they want to fvck each other.. EG a female friend of mine sends me a pic of a big fat cat.. I replied back nice pu$$y. I've known her for years and we never had any sort of sexual relationship.. 

But my craziness made me a bit insecure with her.. 

To me my fantasy was we were going to see this guy, he was going to wink at her and look toward the bathroom. She would then pretend to go to the bathroom with this guy in tow behind her.. Granted a bit over exaggerated but it makes the point..

But why couldn't it be he winks at her and she says you okay ? Do you have something in your eye ?... 

In the end she conceded that her wording was incorrect about loosing all her friends.. In the end she really was trying to do anything to fix this with me. 

Look we are dating 3 months.. She could have told me to go fvck myself.. But she loves and doesn't want to loose me, no matter what issues I might have... She is willing to work them out with me.. She says I am worth the fight, even if the fight is with me..

The good thing about this incident is it really cleared the air about many things and really helped me in therapy along with opening up a good dialog with the GF... Today I feel 1000 times better then I did days ago.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Another question is: do these guys continue to try to bed her, even when she says she has a boyfriend? Are they relentless? Or, did they stop trying once she rejected them and said she was with you? There's a big difference there.


I didn't answer this, I am now..

They stop after the rejection.. 

Again I am no fool, they are going to communicate from time to time and comments are going to be made.. I need to accept that she is adult enough to handle the comments.. She isn't a virgin and has 2 kids.. I can't expect her to be a saint.. 

Which is what I am looking for in some insane ways, foolishly..

In the end I had / have valid concerns that I expressed poorly to her and went a bit overboard.. 

Again I blame the ex for that retardation on my part..

A quick side note.. I asked the therapist why I never acted like this with my STBXW... 

Since he knows my past.. He asked who did you date in your teens. I said nobody.. 

He replied exactly... 

He comments that I took those years to heal from the trauma from my father.. 

Another thing he mentioned, which oddly enough I spoke with a friend about earlier in the day.. It seems I figured this one out by myself.. 

When I met my wife she had a limited past, because of her age and upbringing.. So I might have been her 5th boyfriend.. Where as with this current GF.. She was out of house at 14.. Married early in life but between 14 and 40 I might be number 15 for her..

In the end number 5 sounds better then number 15.. 

I am insecure with woman and their pasts and as I am no longer 26, but 46 I am going to meet woman who have more history behind them.. It is something I am learning to accept.. 

These are things you learn from Therapy and talking to friends both here on TAM and around me..

But the reason because it affected me is because of the trauma from my divorce..


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