# Best Suggestions for Non-married couple to split cost of living/expenses



## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Hi All,

I'm at a bit of an impasse here, both in terms of what is fair and what I should do. I looked over the "financial problems in marriage" section, but didn't find anything helpful. 

What I'm looking for are fair suggestions I can make on how my partner and I can share our financial burden after she goes back to work. 

here is our situation: 

engaged but not married, and with no plans to get married. 
One child together (approx. 1 year old). 
If we pooled our earnings, I'd bring home about 69% of our income, she 31% of it. I make a little more than twice what she makes, and she's likely at the top of her profession in terms of income, and may even make less than what she was making when she goes back to work.
She's been out of work since a month before the baby was born last year, and our plans are for her to be a stay at home mom for another year, until our baby is 2. 

When we agreed to live together, our discussions about splitting $$$ were less cordial than I would have liked. We worked out that she'd pay about 1/6 of our rent, and split all other expenses in half. And she'd pay her own car and personal expenses. We ended up arguing a lot over what sort of place we'd rent together, and it made a difficult job impossible and lead me to miss out on some properties I could have easily bought myself, leading me to have second thoughts on the whole enterprise. But then a month later she was pregnant, and so I was not able to call it off w/out being a total heel... and that arrangement didn't last very long before her money ran out and I was paying everything, which over the last year, I've been racking up a lot of cc debt to keep up with bills. 

Going forward, I'm thinking we just pay bills propotionally, according to take home pay. This still puts more of a burden on me (I'd carry our child on my health insurance), but I can manage it. And we put a 1 year "moratorium" on travel or big purchases to pay off the cc debt that I've been racking up. And she helps me with that. 

*I'm curious how other co-habiting couples here - married or not - manage this. And what works and what doesn't.*


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm at a bit of an impasse here, both in terms of what is fair and what I should do. I looked over the "financial problems in marriage" section, but didn't find anything helpful.
> 
> ...


When my wife and I were living together before we were married, we simply split all the household bills down the middle. We added up rent, utilities (variables were estimated with buffer) and each paid half. Set amount every month.
We each paid for our own vehicles, clothes, personal items, etc. I don’t remember how we handled groceries. 
Bear in mind, this was over 20 years ago and we were just out of college.

I was making about 25% more than her at the time.
If you’re not married and you’re renting, I don’t think your income disparity should really come in to play here.
You should not be living up to your means anyway while renting, so I don’t see any reason not to split the rent/utilities down the middle.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I think proportional sounds fair. I also think that when you are asking another person to pay a portion of the bill then both parties get a say in how big the bill gets.

Does she know that you have racked up cc debt? That isn't healthy in terms of money management.

Why bother calling yourself engaged if you have no plans to marry. That's called shacking up not engaged.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Are you financially prepared in case she decides she isn’t going back to work?


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

I just bought us a house. Completely in my name. Attorney said if we split up, there would be no question it would remain mine.

Yes, she knows about the CC debt. We've had lots of fights about money over the last year.

In her defense, she tried to save up before we moved in, because (she claimed) she didn't want to have to ask me to pay her own expenses, like her car and cell phone. She's not terrible about money, but - in my opinion - more naive than she should be at her age. We're both over 40.

She ended up blowing through her savings much faster than she expected. That's where the naivete comes into play, in my opinion. She should have known that we needed to be frugal when we moved in together, but instead I could tell she was still spending money like it wasn't a finite quantity for her. 

Our fights about money come into effect because she is just not realistic about how much things cost & how pricey it gets when you shop online and eat out.

The rising cost of living where we're at has made this all much worse as well, and was not fully expected when we agreed to move in together.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Are you financially prepared in case she decides she isn’t going back to work?


Well... yes and no. Yes, if we cut out all travel & eating out, we could make it work. HOWEVER, I'm not saving much, if anything, and contributing nothing to my 401K. And we're one disaster away from having to borrow money from parents to pay for expenses. Like... a car accident or medical issue would be devastating right now.

I had a decent chunk of money saved, but put it all on a downpayment for the house. FWIW The new house will - in theory - save money each month, even though the mortgage payments are about the same as what we're paying for rent, but the utilities should be cheaper because it's smaller and newer than the monstrous suburban house we're renting now. 

My concern with her is that when she does go back to work, she's going to argue that a bigger chunk of the money she makes is hers than if we split expenses based on income. 

I'm prepared to put my foot down over this, because - at our age - it's time to start saving in a big way for retirement and college expenses (I also have kids from a prior marriage). So I'm reaching out to the board in hopes that I can find a solution that is fair, but if she refuses to go along with or reneges on her obligations, I can... well... I'm not sure it will result in us separating, but it would certainly make our r/s not workable long term. I don't know. Not sure what the "stick" will be if we can't work this out amicably.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

We, married, are "one pot" people. It's not my money or her money, it's ours. (We do have separate bank and credit card accounts, but it's still ours collectively.)


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> When my wife and I were living together before we were married, we simply split all the household bills down the middle. We added up rent, utilities (variables were estimated with buffer) and each paid half. Set amount every month.
> We each paid for our own vehicles, clothes, personal items, etc. I don’t remember how we handled groceries.
> Bear in mind, this was over 20 years ago and we were just out of college.
> 
> ...


I don't think a 50/50 split is okay, since I make so much more than her. But some percentage split probably needs to happen.

And while I'm prepared to be "chivalrous" about expenses (and have been) at some point she needs to start pulling her weight here.


CharlieParker said:


> We, married, are "one pot" people. It's not my money or her money, it's ours. (We do have separate bank and credit card accounts, but it's still ours collectively.)


that's the simplest solution. But not an option for me. 

Even if I do marry again, I would not do that initially, not until I can fully trust that I see how she behaves through thick and thin, and trust that she has our mutual interest in mind when she decides how to manage money.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Reluctant Texan said:


> I just bought us a house. Completely in my name. Attorney said if we split up, there would be no question it would remain mine.


Well that kind of changes everything dude. Not sure if that was unclear or if I just didn’t read your OP closely enough. 

If you’re living in a house that will remain yours if you split up, then the mortgage is yours to pay. I wouldn’t contribute to a mortgage for a house that I had no equity in. 

In this case, split all of the household expenses (other than the mortgage) and child-related expenses and leave it at that.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> If you’re living in a house that will remain yours if you split up, then the mortgage is yours to pay. I wouldn’t contribute to a mortgage for a house that I had no equity in.
> 
> In this case, split all of the household expenses (other than the mortgage) and child-related expenses and leave it at that.


This is basically how I did it when I had fellas live with me in a house that I owned (minus child expenses, no kids). I covered the mortgage and all home maintenance/repair costs, the ongoing utility expenses were split between us. To avoid a constant "Uh, I need $52 from you for the gas bill..." I worked out a fixed average monthly cost, just like rent. We covered our own vehicle expenses and the pets were mine so I paid for their upkeep. Groceries we both chipped in roughly equally although each of us also bought things for ourselves that the other one didn't eat, like lunch stuff if he was bringing a packed lunch to work.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

In my household I always been the breadwinner, and for the first 14 years of my oldest daughter my wife was a stay home mom.
lately my wife is inching closer to my earnings, but certainly she will never outearn me, until I retire in a couple of year. Having said that, we have never ever said this is my money or your money. It always been our money, the household money. Never ever I made my wife feel less or give her any impediment to touch money when she wanted some for herself or to help a family member. 

Money is if I'm not mistaken the number one factor for relationships ending.
I just can't think on terms of this is my money and this is your money. That's already a separation of the individuals in a relationship. One step closer to part ways. 

To me if you are going to create a union were children will be born, then it should be one pot for the benefit of the whole. The this is mine and this is yours is kind of petty. I can see when wealth is involved and both partners are protecting their assets. But regular people should strive for economical union.

I understand that is different when second marriages with both partners bringing children into the union, but that's another beast altogether, but not too far away from the concept of one family with shared resources.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

From the beginning, it was "our" money. Before we got married we had joint accounts, it was his idea. I was the one hesitant to combine, because even though I made more money then I knew he would out-earn me in time. He has, he makes about 3-4 times what I make (commission sales, it's variable). If it were up to me, it would still be separate, but he believed that it should be "our" money because we're a "team." As things wind down, I wish more and more we'd followed your model and kept those lines drawn. We're building a house, and when our son graduates and we sell, I figure since I've consistently earned between a quarter and a third, I should get about a quarter of the proceeds, but I'm in no position to make demands because I voluntarily combined our finances. We spent all my retirement on the down payment for the first house we bought together (my idea, I figured I'd put it back but we ended up combining it so he could invest it, it's HUGE now so he's set for retirement) so I'm going to be working pretty much forever. These are mistakes I made that I will have to (literally) pay for, but I made those poor choices with my eyes open, knowing the risk. It's a mess and needlessly complicated because I was stupid.

My advice is to draw those lines clearly now, preferably in writing. You're doing the right thing by being frank with her about the nature of your relationship with her. A lot of women don't educate themselves and learn about money. The kind thing to do for her is to prepare her properly for the future. If you explain and she doesn't listen, then that is on her, but you will have done the right thing.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

You share a child which changes this dynamic a bit. If you expect her to be a SAHM for any period that means you pay all the bills. She cares for the kid & cleans the house. If you want cash, somebody else gets paid to do childcare & housework. 

Ask what she thinks is fair about her contribution to the bills when she goes back to work. You will get all the equity in the house so you cannot expect contributions for the mortgage. Anything she gives you is gravy so pick your battles.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> We, married, are "one pot" people. It's not my money or her money, it's ours. (We do have separate bank and credit card accounts, but it's still ours collectively.)


My husband and I are also ‘one pot’ people. It’s all just ours. We don’t have separate accounts.

Back in the day, I agreed to combine our finances and just start the ‘one pot’ life (living together, not married then) after he demonstrated to me that he could stick to a budget with me (as that wasn’t his strong point back then). Anyway, I’m more risk averse and that’s not necessarily ‘right’ either… but long story short, see above, we’re one pot.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In this day and age, I don’t think most men should cohabitate or marry or knock up anyone at all. 

Your first two mistakes were planting babies in her and then living with her. 

The courts won’t care if your married or not and will stick you with child support and possibly spousal support anyway.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Even if I do marry again, I would not do that initially, not until I can fully trust that I see how she behaves through thick and thin, and trust that she has our mutual interest in mind when she decides how to manage money.


So you're living with a woman and making babies with her but you don't trust her enough to marry her. I think finances at the least of your problems dude.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

not knowing tax laws in the USA do you get tax deduction for her when she is stay at home , the fact she is a stay at home has a big impact , if you both put the child before her work then you need to add in the cost same as if you had to pay child care if she went to work


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Being that you live together and even have a child together and are even engaged (although if you have no plans to marry I have no idea why). everything should be joint, joint account, all bills paid out of that account and all pay paid in. You are living as if you are married but you want to treat finances as if you are single.
Is she ok with you having bought a house together but putting it only in your name.

I have to wonder how committed to her you are. You seem to want to keep all your money separate and not get married. You don't seem to care that she and the child would have no where to live if the relationship ended. I wouldn't put up with it but that's her decision.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

It sounds to me like you should have stayed completely single and stopped having children, but maybe that's just me. 

One of my family members had this kind of relationship. He was so stingy with money, even when she was working, that she was like a child getting an allowance from him. You may be able to guess how it turned out....


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Copied my parents. My paycheck goes to my wife and is managed by her. I don’t know how much more than her I make, maybe 5x probably more.

When we first started living together she moved into my apartment and had her money and I paid for everything except sometimes she’d buy meals out.

We have only argued about money once where my wife wanted to give her family a bunch. The solution to that was I asked her to never tell me and instead just do it. Since I never look at the bank balance I wouldn’t even know.

Note that in order to pull this off when you’re not making a lot of income you can’t be living right on the edge of disaster. You need to dial it way back from that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm at a bit of an impasse here, both in terms of what is fair and what I should do. I looked over the "financial problems in marriage" section, but didn't find anything helpful.
> 
> ...


If you're not planning on getting M, remember she can leave anytime. And why not.
You could too.
Plan on your future supporting your child. Bear in mind if no M no sense of permanence.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

So to respond to a couple repeated comments:

We didn't plan on having a kid together. We talked about it and were open to it. And then It happened much quicker than we expected.

I proposed to her after we learned she was pregnant, but while she said yes, she was initially not really very enthusiastic, and never wanted to set a date or anything. since then she's occasionally mentioned that we'll get married eventually.

after some of our conflicts of the passed year, I resolved that I'm not getting married until I see a lot more stability from her, and us, and some more shared goals on what we want from life.

YES, I admit this situation is not great. It's stable though, and we are generally happy, and things have been improving; and with a 1 yr old, we're through the hardest part of raising a child. 

She claims she went through a lot of changes rapidly... becoming a "step mom" to my kid(s), moving in together, and becoming a full time mom, and that's affected her by a lot. 

I am making an allowance for that, even though personally I try to bear burdens like that internally and not take them out on my partner...

In terms of long term goals, she's expressed a desire to travel more and live abroad at some point. Just looking at our finances and the brutal way things are going for us Americans right now, I think she's being really unrealistic and wishes it was still 2019, and yet those days are just not coming back for her.

I've seen how she reacts to being told no, she sulks and throws a fit and takes it out on me. And then I don't have a partner and it sucks. And I don't want to spend the rest of my life fighting these battles every time we have a spare $5K and I say we put it in our kid's college fund and our retirement accounts or pay down debt, and she says "let's go to Acapulco for a week"

And on top of all that, I have kids from a prior marriage who I have joint (but not primary) custody of. And while she's generally been a good "step mom" and they love her, she's also complained about them sometimes in ways I don't agree with, and that will likely be another source of conflict in the future when she expects me to take care of our child only, and I want to divide things equally between all my kids.

So YES this situation isn't ideal.

I want everything to work out, but life's too short to stay in an unhappy relationship, and so I'm hoping the brain trust here can suggest a fair way to split the finances to protect myself (and her) if we split, but also accommodate the likelihood it works out and we eventually get married and/or spend the rest of our lives together.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Reluctant Texan said:


> So to respond to a couple repeated comments:
> 
> We didn't plan on having a kid together. We talked about it and were open to it. And then It happened much quicker than we expected.
> 
> ...


Sounds like she'll not be the one for you in the long run. Maybe plan a separate life.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Reluctant Texan said:


> I've seen how she reacts to being told no, she sulks and throws a fit and takes it out on me. And then I don't have a partner and it sucks. And I don't want to spend the rest of my life fighting these battles every time we have a spare $5K and I say we put it in our kid's college fund and our retirement accounts or pay down debt, and she says "let's go to Acapulco for a week"


I'm very serious about money and financial security (long story, childhood issues, blah blah). So I don't blame you ONE bit for being hesitant to combine your finances and gamble your financial future on someone who doesn't have the same attitudes about money you do. Especially if she has a tendency to act like a child, about money and other things, then yeah, absolutely, protect yourself. 


Reluctant Texan said:


> I want everything to work out, but life's too short to stay in an unhappy relationship, and so I'm hoping the brain trust here can suggest a fair way to split the finances to protect myself (and her) if we split, but also accommodate the likelihood it works out and we eventually get married and/or spend the rest of our lives together.


I don't know what it's called, but it sounds like you need something like a pre-pre-nuptial agreement. I bet an attorney could help you, and it would be worth the money. How she reacts to that will also tell you a LOT.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If that’s her first child at 40(+) — can’t remember if you said she has others — I don’t doubt that’s a big life adjustment but she just doesn’t sound financially responsible. And who knows if she really will go back to work in a year. I’d be very cautious going forward.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Reluctant Texan said:


> So to respond to a couple repeated comments:
> 
> We didn't plan on having a kid together. We talked about it and were open to it. And then It happened much quicker than we expected.
> 
> ...


Well, this is a complete different scenario than what in your OP led to believe. Now I understand your reluctance. 

The way things are going in your relationship are prime conditions for eventually things not working out.

One thing. Never, ever let her impose her will about her child against your other kids. This is a typical response from many women (the wicked stepmother) trying to get everything for her child and screw the husband's other children. 

You need to find a way in which you protect yourself economically, but at the same time maintaining and doing what needs to done in order for the family being run smoothly from a financial perspective; which should include her earnings as part of one pot to run the household, while she keeping a small percentage as her petty cash. Unless, she's not working and stay home to take care of things, then she should contribute as much as possible to the household budget.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Sounds like she'll not be the one for you in the long run. Maybe plan a separate life.


I've come to grips with that. While I do hope it works out, I'm also trying to be realistic.

Keeping our finances separate seems the most reasonable option. 

I just want something fair, or that most people consider fair.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm very serious about money and financial security (long story, childhood issues, blah blah). So I don't blame you ONE bit for being hesitant to combine your finances and gamble your financial future on someone who doesn't have the same attitudes about money you do. Especially if she has a tendency to act like a child, about money and other things, then yeah, absolutely, protect yourself.


Yeah, we did come from somewhat different backgrounds here. Her larger family had money and was very much "local gentry" in their area, but her nuclear family did not, so she doesn't have the individual means to provide the life she wants for herself. 

Plus, she went into education which pays very poorly. (Note: I'm not attacking that, nor am I anti-teacher; I think they're WAY underpaid, but it is what it is, and that's a different issue altogether!)

I worked my through college and generally assume the worst about where our economy and society are going, and so don't like to put myself in a situation where I'm living in debt, and don't have savings to pay my bills in cash if needed.



TexasMom1216 said:


> I don't know what it's called, but it sounds like you need something like a pre-pre-nuptial agreement. I bet an attorney could help you, and it would be worth the money. How she reacts to that will also tell you a LOT.


Yeah, I plan to get one. It's just I don't have the money to pay for one right now...

She will not like it, and would not want to spend her own money on an attorney, but that's a bridge I'll have to cross down the road.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> From the beginning, it was "our" money. Before we got married we had joint accounts, it was his idea. I was the one hesitant to combine, because even though I made more money then I knew he would out-earn me in time. He has, he makes about 3-4 times what I make (commission sales, it's variable). If it were up to me, it would still be separate, but he believed that it should be "our" money because we're a "team." As things wind down, I wish more and more we'd followed your model and kept those lines drawn. We're building a house, and when our son graduates and we sell, I figure since I've consistently earned between a quarter and a third, I should get about a quarter of the proceeds, but I'm in no position to make demands because I voluntarily combined our finances. We spent all my retirement on the down payment for the first house we bought together (my idea, I figured I'd put it back but we ended up combining it so he could invest it, it's HUGE now so he's set for retirement) so I'm going to be working pretty much forever. These are mistakes I made that I will have to (literally) pay for, but I made those poor choices with my eyes open, knowing the risk. It's a mess and needlessly complicated because I was stupid.
> 
> My advice is to draw those lines clearly now, preferably in writing. You're doing the right thing by being frank with her about the nature of your relationship with her. A lot of women don't educate themselves and learn about money. The kind thing to do for her is to prepare her properly for the future. If you explain and she doesn't listen, then that is on her, but you will have done the right thing.


I take it you're divorced? Yes, I made some of those mistakes once before, but not too badly; I mean divorce is terribly destructive to one's finances in any case, but I didn't go into debt to pay for mine, and while I pay the max in child support, it at least can't go higher. And I still have a couple decades before retirement so at least I can "dig out" and in theory catch back up. 

Either way, I plan to keep our finances separate or as separate as possible, b/c I know I can't really afford to make that mistake again.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Her larger family had money and was very much "local gentry" in their area, but her nuclear family did not, so she doesn't have the individual means to provide the life she wants for herself.


Don't let her make excuses. I grew up with money, and I can make responsible choices. She's 40, not 22. She may get mad but tough, it's all fun and games until you start talking about money/security/independence.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Don't let her make excuses. I grew up with money, and I can make responsible choices. She's 40, not 22. She may get mad but tough, it's all fun and games until you start talking about money/security/independence.


I don't. Her family are wonderful people, but I see they all make some terrible financial decisions. While they still have some income generating assets, seems like they're spending that income prioritizing traveling (during a pandemic...) instead of shoring things up or investing to grow what they have. and some of their "peers" have done that, and are doing a lot better than them now, and they're struggling to keep up with the Joneses

For me, I just want to protect myself and ensure I can provide for my kids equally, and be able to retire as comfortably as possible. I also figure I'll be tasked with taking care of my parents and as the sole daughter, she'll have to take care of her mom.

She's come around a bit, but I can see she still doesn't like to think about any of this. To her money should be for fun... you save up a bit, then you spend. And if you need more? just save a bit more. But she hasn't accounted for the fact that you only have a finite time to work in life, and everything is getting more expensive, especially healthcare, which you need MORE of as you get older. 

When I've mentioned college/education funds, retirement planning, and taking care of elderly parents, she acts like I've told her we're going to become pig farmers in Bulgaria or something.

For that reason, I'm not sure how to discuss some of this anymore without being blunt, and that causes problems on it's own, you know? I don't want financial planning to cause conflict on it's own, but I also am seeing that it's probably unavoidable with her.

I'm trying not to be too down on everything and making a good faith effort for our child together, so I'm hoping whatever financial arrangement we arrive at can provide a few years stability, not cause any long term issues for either of us, and allow us to potentially grow as a couple and work all this out.

She has told me she loves me, and wants to be together forever. and also that's what she expects, but is still coming to grips with how much her life has changed from 2019, when she was still single and contemplating teaching abroad again. The problem as I see it is she's not dealing with her feelings of loss and compromise, and weighing them fairly against what's she's gained in becoming a mom, and she's dragging me down with her by taking this out on me.

I have seen some improvement in her behavior and outlook, and like I said, am making allowances for how motherhood changes a woman emotionally. But still her behavior has made me wary... and I guess as I write this I'm still wary, and not sure how this will play out.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Reluctant Texan said:


> She's come around a bit, but I can see she still doesn't like to think about any of this. To her money should be for fun... you save up a bit, then you spend.


I'm 10 years older than her, and was raised in a, ahem, "unique" environment. But I know I was always taught that it is unladylike and gauche to talk about money. To this day, I am uncomfortable with financial discussions. I have them, of course, because I'm a grownup, but I don't like it. That "spend it as soon as you make it" attitude is VERY typical of people from a wealthy background. I stopped taking money from my family and had a trial by fire to learn financial responsibility and independence, sounds like she didn't have that.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm confused. She is now a stay at home mom, but you are expecting her to contribute financially? How can she help with expenses if she isn't making any money?

I'm assuming you don't own the house outright, but even if you did, you still have taxes and insurance to pay. It costs something to live in a house. If you are sharing expenses, then paying for living in the house should be part of that, whether she is contributing to equity or not isn't the point. She has the benefit of living in the house. However, at this point, it's moot, because she's a sahm.

Why is she a sahm if you two can't afford it?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Reluctant Texan said:


> I've come to grips with that. While I do hope it works out, I'm also trying to be realistic.
> 
> Keeping our finances separate seems the most reasonable option.
> 
> I just want something fair, or that most people consider fair.


Remember, what's fair to you and children get priority. She's made her choices.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> I'm confused. She is now a stay at home mom, but you are expecting her to contribute financially? How can she help with expenses if she isn't making any money?
> 
> I'm assuming you don't own the house outright, but even if you did, you still have taxes and insurance to pay. It costs something to live in a house. If you are sharing expenses, then paying for living in the house should be part of that, whether she is contributing to equity or not isn't the point. She has the benefit of living in the house. However, at this point, it's moot, because she's a sahm.
> 
> Why is she a sahm if you two can't afford it?


Yeah, you are confused!

As I explained in my first post, she's a SAHM now, but our plan is that she'll go back to work in another year, when our kid is 2 years old.

I'm looking for suggestions on how we can or should manage our finances and split expenses AFTER she goes back to work.

To clarify: We can afford for her to continue to be a SAHM right now, but just barely, and likely will need to cut way back on expenses going forward to manage, given that the home purchase will exhaust most of my saved cash, and we won't have a "cushion" to pay off any excess debt or emergency expenses we incur.

(She's agreed in theory and said she understands, but we'll see how that goes... that's a different issue though.)


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Reluctant Texan said:


> I've come to grips with that. While I do hope it works out, I'm also trying to be realistic.
> 
> Keeping our finances separate seems the most reasonable option.
> 
> I just want something fair, or that most people consider fair.


Are u going to marry? If not, she may be the one to leave. She may just want to eject after realizing you want to be more financially restrictive to her. Wisely so.

Point is, she's also thinking about her future. If money stress gets to her she may bail on you.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

If all you are after are separate finances, something fair for you putting a roof over her head & less pouting about money it's time to talk to her. 

What I said originally still stands. While she is a SAHM taking care of your shared kid, plus your kids / her "step-kids" & being responsible for the house, you pay everything. Period. If you don't want to pay all the bills & you want her to go back to work, you will end up paying for to have somebody else do all that child care. 

When she does return to work as a teacher talk to her about what's fair. As others have said, it's unfair for you to expect her to contribute to the mortgage when she has no equity. Before you say she would have to pay rent somewhere, that is true, but it would be a smaller place for a single person so the other overhead for things like AC in TX would be much less in a small 1 BR then it is in a big house. She is the mother of your child so be a little generous. 

As for the other bills fairness means she pays some & you pay some but she shouldn't pay half because she doesn't use half the house when it's the size it is because you chose it & it has to accommodate your other kids. Especially since you are the primary breadwinner, there should be a sliding scale. 

Communication & budgeting together are the keys to making this work for both of you. She has to emotionally, intellectually & financially buy-in to the plan. You can't just cram it down her throat.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

D0nnivain said:


> If all you are after are separate finances, something fair for you putting a roof over her head & less pouting about money it's time to talk to her.
> 
> What I said originally still stands. While she is a SAHM taking care of your shared kid, plus your kids / her "step-kids" & being responsible for the house, you pay everything. Period. If you don't want to pay all the bills & you want her to go back to work, you will end up paying for to have somebody else do all that child care.
> 
> ...


I'm betting she won't.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> ...
> As for the other bills fairness means she pays some & you pay some but she shouldn't pay half because she doesn't use half the house when it's the size it is because you chose it & it has to accommodate your other kids. Especially since you are the primary breadwinner, there should be a sliding scale.
> ...


Well... I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but I didn't buy the house without allowing her input (WAAAAAY too much input, IMO) in the choice.

Because of that, I ended up with about $30K more house than I would have otherwise spent right now. Not a huge increase, and it's a good house, so it wasn't a bad deal for me, but I'll be paying for it...

I probably have come off more negative about this relationship than I actually am. I am hoping it works out and she seems to be to (she says she is). She has told me if needed she'll go back to work sooner, and also that she wants to help share the burden.

She may on her own volunteer to help pay the mortgage and all expenses. If not, I think me providing housing & then us splitting all the household costs 50/50 are fair, as well as her paying for her own car, cell phone, etc.

So, we'd split: electric, gas, water, internet, & groceries/toiletries basically. Her share of all that comes to about $1000/month. 

If she balks at that, or tries to argue she should pay less, then I'm going to be upset. 



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Are u going to marry? If not, she may be the one to leave. She may just want to eject after realizing you want to be more financially restrictive to her. Wisely so.
> 
> Point is, she's also thinking about her future. If money stress gets to her she may bail on you.


I don't know. When I proposed to her, I was feeling a lot more romantic and committed than I am now. 

It's not so much that times have been tougher than either of us expected, it's more how she's coped with them.

And some of the things she's said when she lashes out leave a mark, and while she tries to take them back and apologize, the damage has been done. We have a ways to go before it heals. I guess that's why I'm venting online too.

So, while I'd definitely be sad and disappointed if she bailed on me... I'd also consider how miserably she's made at least one of my weekends monthly this past year. And I'll move on and be fine.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Reluctant Texan said:


> *I'm curious how other co-habiting couples here - married or not - manage this. And what works and what doesn't.*


Ugh.

You sound like a roommate instead of a supposed' domestic partner.' Jesus, just the fact that you call it an 'enterprise' really says it all.

Go find yourself a roommate you can nickel and dime to death and let her go to find someone who isn't so busy keeping score that he forgets it's an actual RELATIONSHIP. Sheesh.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Ugh.
> 
> You sound like a roommate instead of a supposed' domestic partner.' Jesus, just the fact that you call it an 'enterprise' really says it all.
> 
> Go find yourself a roommate you can nickel and dime to death and let her go to find someone who isn't so busy keeping score that he forgets it's an actual RELATIONSHIP. Sheesh.


This is one of those times I wish we could hear both sides.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Ugh.
> 
> You sound like a roommate instead of a supposed' domestic partner.' Jesus, just the fact that you call it an 'enterprise' really says it all.
> 
> Go find yourself a roommate you can nickel and dime to death and let her go to find someone who isn't so busy keeping score that he forgets it's an actual RELATIONSHIP. Sheesh.


"Enterprise" ha. I really did say that? oh well... just a word, right?



TexasMom1216 said:


> This is one of those times I wish we could hear both sides.


She'd probably start by saying she had to make way more compromises in the relationship by moving to the suburbs, putting up with my kids every other weekend, and being in a house she never wanted to live in and didn't choose. 

Then she'd claim I wasn't up front about all this, and I'm way more difficult to live with than she expected, and while I do help out with the baby and household duties, her mom had a housekeeper and nanny and she's doing all this herself, and it's not fair. Plus I knew she liked to travel and that was "important" to her, and we've only been on one fun trip that didn't involve seeing family since the baby was born, and she had to insist on it.

Then if she was really feeling uncharitable, she'd go into a laundry list of personal insults about me.

I'm expecting her to launch into all that if/when in a year I present a household budget she doesn't like, or I put my foot down on taking vacations or buying new furniture for the house until I'm able to pay off the credit card debt I've incurred, and rebuild my emergency savings fund, and start contributing to my 401K again.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

I do also pay for a cleaning lady every other week to clean the house. I agreed to that concession after she said cleaning the whole house and being a SAHM was too much.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

You seem so angry with her. I get what you’re trying to do, and I don’t know what I’d do in your spot. I just can’t imagine this is going to end well. It just seems like you really don’t like or respect her at all. 😔 I’m sorry it worked out this way. Neither of you are going to be happy.

I do think you should prep and protect yourself.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You seem so angry with her. I get what you’re trying to do, and I don’t know what I’d do in your spot. I just can’t imagine this is going to end well. It just seems like you really don’t like or respect her at all. 😔 I’m sorry it worked out this way. Neither of you are going to be happy.


Well... we're both committed to making it work. But yeah, I'm angry (resentful more maybe) at how she's behaved.

And I think she had an idea her life would be more glamorous at this juncture than it was. 

I can make an allowance for some of that; nothing can really prepare you for the stress and adjustment to parenthood, and I've gone through it before and she hasn't.

Still, she knew about my obligations to my kids and she saw how I lived and the standard of living I could afford. So I don't think she's been fair to me when she brings that stuff up. And I don't know whether to dismiss it as part of her adjustment to motherhood, or whether it's a more insidious red flag to try to get me to put her and our child ahead of my other kids.

And since we had a kid together and she stopped working, I'm shouldering a lot more of a financial burden, and so have been considering how other couples split things (when both are working), to see how we could function better, given how financial issues have been so detrimental to our relationship.

This thread took a WAY more negative tone and vibe than I expected though.

I forget how happy we were & how
much fun we had before we moved in together sometimes.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

I read through some other threads on the topic here, and realize I might have come off as some miserly bean counter, or somebody who scrutinizes receipts and tries to control their partner.

I'm absolutely not like that, and have not been that way. I always "round up" when she asks for money, and understand it feels good to spend and it sucks to have to worry about money.

It's on the "big ticket" items where I've become concerned, and also on spending in general that I think we need to tighten our belt so to speak. 

and those talks with her often get unnecessarily emotional, and I feel like she drags other issues into it, instead of agreeing on some hard numbers. 

Until she goes back to work, we're going to need to suck it up and make do with less each month. And she seems okay with that, b/c she really wanted "us" to buy a house. 

I'm more concerned with how we arrange things AFTER she goes back to work, since our discussions on that back when were more tense than I would have liked, and because she's been out of work most of the time we've been living together, we never really had to work on a shared budget plan.

so that's why I asked...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Sometimes it’s good to have someplace to vent the negativity so it doesn’t affect your actual life.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Was it you or was it her who initially brought up the idea of her trying for a first child at 40+?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Reluctant Texan said:


> I read through some other threads on the topic here, and realize I might have come off as some miserly bean counter, or somebody who scrutinizes receipts and tries to control their partner.


I didn't make that assumption based on what you wrote. However, I personally twitch at the language of you 'putting your foot down' about furniture and such as it comes across like you're treating her like a child in sentiments like that. Granted, also from your words, she doesn't sound particularly savvy about financial responsibility either. Side note, I was surprised about her coming from wealth; if it is indeed that. Reason being, people that I know who I would consider proper wealthy, as in old-money, are typically pretty frugal. One wouldn't know on the surface with how they present that they are of old-money wealth, and are typically savvy with decisions on how to protect that.

That observation aside, and having not been in your shoes with building a relationship post-divorce and with children, I'd personally think if not combined everything then perhaps a shared account where you just each put in an amount when she's working again and that 'shared pot' is where the bills and expenses and travel (yes, include in the budget room for realistic trips and niceties) are paid from. You both need to establish and be across said budget as basic math of what comes in and what goes out and hopefully with shared understanding that that's about you being a team together. I haven't included thoughts about assets or investments, as it comes across like you both need to just get to basics. I think you 'account' for that contributions as a team does not necessarily need to be financial, depending on your circumstances, yet approaching the finances together in a way that's not finger pointing or condescending or anything negative or hairy and scary, and instead transparently and supportively has you working together (whatever that means as determined by both of you) for what is needed.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Reluctant Texan said:


> with a 1 yr old, we're through the hardest part of raising a child.


I take it you don't have teenagers? 



Reluctant Texan said:


> I'd also consider how miserably she's made at least one of my weekends monthly this past year.


Maybe you should go into more detail here. This sounds as if it might be a bigger issue, rather than things just being about money....



Reluctant Texan said:


> she's been out of work most of the time we've been living together


You mean while having and taking care of a new baby? Your language sounds so resentful, as if you expected her to get her butt back to work the second the baby was born. 

I get that relationships can't be one-sided and that you don't want to be taken advantage of either. Still, it's like someone mentioned earlier, you sound so angry and as if you really don't like (much less love) or respect her at all. I don't think you've said once that you love her. 

Do you?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> I take it you don't have teenagers?


PREACH.

I also feel like there is a lot more to this than money. 😟


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

theloveofmylife said:


> I take it you don't have teenagers?


Not yet... but at least teenagers will let you sleep in, right? under 1's... not so much.



theloveofmylife said:


> Maybe you should go into more detail here. This sounds as if it might be a bigger issue, rather than things just being about money....


It has been. Her behavior has been really ugly at times. Like literally yelling at me & calling me names _as I'm waking up in the morning_ for something she was unhappy about. And not things I was aware of or could control, things like "I hate this life we're leading, I didn't sign up for this, I'm miserable every day, this is too much" ... Like okay? You wanted to have a baby. If being a SAHM is too much, GO BACK TO WORK, like I've said many times before. Her behavior would then escalate into screaming, swearing, door slamming, etc. Ruins the entire day.

Like I said, those instances have left a mark. She's apologized and said she feels terrible about how she acted. She was never like this before we moved in together or had a baby, and she always prided herself on being calm and kind in her words.

Time will tell, but it's possible this was post-partum, hormonal issues, lack of sleep, and adjustments to motherhood for her. I'm not giving up... and have seen _some_ improvement since these issues peaked at like 3-9 months post partum.



theloveofmylife said:


> You mean while having and taking care of a new baby? Your language sounds so resentful, as if you expected her to get her butt back to work the second the baby was born.


In my last couple posts, I tried to dial it back. I'm just venting. I didn't plan to initially, but other posters "digging for dirt" and asking for more details kinda triggered some bad memories for me. I'm not as unhappy with her as I came off. But I have a long memory, and can think back and "put myself in the moment" so to speak, when I've otherwise let it go.

For the record, I've always told her that while I thought it was in our baby's best interest for her to be a SAHM, at least for a year or year-and-a-1/2, I supported whatever decision she reached, and I understood it was hard staying home with a baby all day. *I told her in no uncertain terms I would not judge her for whatever decision she made.*

FWIW... I took this same approach in my marriage too, but XW decided to start working less than a year into motherhood, and went around telling people I was pushing her to go back to work. At least my current partner has not done that... so... some improvement! 



theloveofmylife said:


> I get that relationships can't be one-sided and that you don't want to be taken advantage of either. Still, it's like someone mentioned earlier, you sound so angry and as if you really don't like (much less love) or respect her at all. I don't think you've said once that you love her.
> 
> Do you?


Yes. I tell her that every day too, and she tells me.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My opinion is she may very likely change her mind about going back to work when it’s time for that next year (plenty of women have done that) so instead of thinking about how to split money you may not have you should instead think about ways to simplify your life in case you have to live on one income for longer than you think.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Not yet... but at least teenagers will let you sleep in, right? under 1's... not so much.


Maybe, but it's usually after you've been up all night worrying because they've been out all night.

Bigger kids, bigger problems.



Reluctant Texan said:


> In my last couple posts, I tried to dial it back. I'm just venting.


Venting is fine. It just doesn't sound like a very loving, romantic, devoted, relationship. Maybe that's what she didn't sign up for? And, yes, she's exhausted and probably not feeling very appreciated either. Seems neither one of you are nor are either of you willing to make the first move in that regard.

I'm generally not one to suggest "counseling" but maybe you guys would benefit from someone to talk with like a relationship coach.

"Digging for dirt" is just trying to get more info in order to give you advice from an informed position. Hard to do when we sense something else going on but don't know what that might be.

Try not to keep reliving the past. Forgive if possible. Live in the present.

I'm glad you tell her you love her, but I think you need to show her. I think she needs to show you too.

Food for thought: finances are very important of course, but try not to make it seem like that's more important than her, the baby, or the relationship.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> My opinion is she may very likely change her mind about going back to work when it’s time for that next year (plenty of women have done that) so instead of thinking about how to split money you may not have you should instead think about ways to simplify your life in case you have to live on one income for longer than you think.


That's a good point. I could see that happening.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Reluctant Texan said:


> In my last couple posts, I tried to dial it back. I'm just venting. I didn't plan to initially, but other posters "digging for dirt" and asking for more details kinda triggered some bad memories for me. I'm not as unhappy with her as I came off. But I have a long memory, and can think back and "put myself in the moment" so to speak, when I've otherwise let it go.


Just between us chickens, I vent here. It doesn't give a great impression sometimes, like you've seen with assumptions about your feelings for her. But it's a (relatively) safe place to vent out the things that are nagging at you, the worst that will happen is a bunch of internet strangers make unkind assumptions about your character. I think it's exponentially better to have internet people dislike you than to expose your loved ones to the dark recesses of your crazy. 😉


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

heartsbeating said:


> ... Side note, I was surprised about her coming from wealth; if it is indeed that. Reason being, people that I know who I would consider proper wealthy, as in old-money, are typically pretty frugal. One wouldn't know on the surface with how they present that they are of old-money wealth, and are typically savvy with decisions on how to protect that.
> 
> ...


They're not 1%ers. Earlier generations of their family had a "big fish in a small pond" thing going in her hometown, where they owned real estate and had some well-established businesses. They also had the means for college educations in a time & place few did.

Her parents' generation had enough $$$ to not have to work for a living; they all either live on rental income from properties or have small businesses they started. But her parents' generation also haven't taken a long view toward investing and providing for their kids. From what I can tell, they spend their excess on travel and fun, not building more wealth, and so "our" generation in her family are all working for a living. Some of them have more help from their parents than she does. 

She complains sometimes comparing our situation to what her mom had, and I'm frustrated with that, b/c there's nothing I can do about it. She also compares us to other couples. 

But we're starting out as a couple much later in life than they did; it would be a different situation right now if we had bought a house together & had a kid 10 years ago. I've tried to tell her that, and to stop comparing our current situation to others' and be patient, but sometimes that goes in one ear and out the other...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Apparently a big part of her problem is how her parents dealt with finances so that she tends to think the same way they did. I had that problem when I was married. My husband had a very successful career but he spent a tremendous amount of money because that’s what his parents did. I earned considerably less than he did and I preferred saving money because that’s what my parents did. When our parents were both gone, mine had left me lots because of their savings and his had left him zero because of their spending. Unfortunately since our money was combined, my money disappeared along with his. That’s totally on me for trusting him with our finances. So my suggestion is never trust her with your money. Never. It’s easier to keep things separate when you aren’t married. I will never combine my money with someone else again because of how badly I got burned (I’m more cynical now than I was then).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She’s complaining because she waited later in life to “nest” than most do and now she doesn’t have what others her age have? No. Those were the choices she made and she’ll need to learn to live with them.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Apparently a big part of her problem is how her parents dealt with finances so that she tends to think the same way they did. I had that problem when I was married. My husband had a very successful career but he spent a tremendous amount of money because that’s what his parents did. I earned considerably less than he did and I preferred saving money because that’s what my parents did. When our parents were both gone, mine had left me lots because of their savings and his had left him zero because of their spending. Unfortunately since our money was combined, my money disappeared along with his. That’s totally on me for trusting him with our finances. So my suggestion is never trust her with your money. Never. It’s easier to keep things separate when you aren’t married. I will never combine my money with someone else again because of how badly I got burned (I’m more cynical now than I was then).


Thanks for this. Yeah, this is the kind of information I wanted from those who've gone through more of life than I have.

I'm gathering my partner is not going to like keeping finances separate, at least not if/when there comes a time when she wants me to spend more of what I have on her or foot more of our bills.

But I think it's the easiest thing to do, even with me paying most of our joint expenses. I'd rather pay more and have peace of mind with what I have available for my own saving and financial planning. And that protects me and my kids from her spending habits.

Assuming we stick together, we'll likely need further discussions on this b/c she'll need to make sure she's saving for her own retirement; I'm not going to hit 65 and happily keep working because of something frivolous like her _wanting _to travel more than work in her late 40's and 50's.



Openminded said:


> She’s complaining because she waited later in life to “nest” than most do and now she doesn’t have what others her age have? No. Those were the choices she made and she’ll need to learn to live with them.


She's coming around, I think. I have seen some changes in her behavior. And when she saw I was serious about what I could afford and what I had, her housing expectations got a lot more reasonable.

Still, she has trouble distinguishing between "_wants_" and "_needs_" sometimes. I think - like TX Mom said - she's never really had to make tough financial choices in life, because she was on her own and could earn enough to do what she wanted. Like, for example she'd have to take a cheaper flight for her backpacking trip across Europe, and stay in hostels... but she didn't have to face the reality of whether she could take a trip at all because she needed to pay for daycare and baby food instead.

So when we met, despite having worked for 15 years, she never bought any property, and had very little saved. That was fine for her... but now, having started a family and stopped working... it's a problem for her.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Thanks for this. Yeah, this is the kind of information I wanted from those who've gone through more of life than I have.
> 
> I'm gathering my partner is not going to like keeping finances separate, at least not if/when there comes a time when she wants me to spend more of what I have on her or foot more of our bills.
> 
> ...


You have no choice but to pay most of things.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

So she lived a life of freedom in her 20’s and 30’s until she met you when she was around 40 and decided it was time to settle down because she wanted a child? I would be putting off marriage for a long time until you see how financial responsible she can really be. My exH and I were very young when we got married and our money was combined from the beginning. That was a mistake I wouldn’t fully appreciate the consequences of for decades. I trusted him completely and paid a very heavy price. Live and learn.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> ... I would be putting off marriage for a long time until you see how financial responsible she can really be. ...


Yes, I should have done that.

But we didn't have a long time... we met at 39.

I was also open to having one more kid... I don't know why. I kinda felt like it was the right thing to do. And I'm happy I did, although it's been tough.

To be fair to her, she was working all that time, and just didn't make much as a teacher. She did blow A LOT of money traveling during this time though.

And when we met, she had her own place, tastefully, but not opulently furnished, and a decent but not expensive car. She spent more on her apartment than I would have, if I was making her salary, but I had no reason to suspect her spending habits would change if we were together.

Also, when I met my ex-wife, her life was more akin to a trainwreck, and so my current partner seemed like a model of financial prudence by comparison.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Reluctant Texan said:


> I do also pay for a cleaning lady every other week to clean the house. I agreed to that concession after she said cleaning the whole house and being a SAHM was too much.


Nearly all SAHM's clean their own house. She has one child.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Keep your credit completely separate from hers. Nothing joint. And don’t allow her access to your checking account or savings account or use your money for her investments. Use separate banks — not just separate accounts. I’m telling you all of what I should have done and didn’t. My excuse is that we were very young when our lives together started. The two of you aren’t. Be smarter than I was.

She chose to be a teacher knowing that they traditionally don’t make tons of money. She chose to spend her money traveling for the 15 years she worked and then had very little to show for it. But you came along and agreed to moving in together and a baby. You can see why she might think all her problems were solved. I hope I’m wrong about her motives and everything works out. But you will need to be very careful. I would put marriage to her way off into the future.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

> So, we'd split: electric, gas, water, internet, & groceries/toiletries basically. Her share of all that comes to about $1000/month.


This would be fair if you didn't have kids who came to stay. And even though they are staying every other weekend, my guess is those weekends can be expensive. Kids are just expensive. 

Anyway, I don't think this is your issue. 

First: has she been checked out for postpartum depression? It's something you should consider. 

Second, Given that you both want this relationship to work, you really should go into couples counseling. We all lose our cool sometimes, but lashing out at your partner on a regular basis is not okay. That definitely needs to be addressed because it's decaying your bond and it's damaging to your child. 

Third, while you are in counseling, you should also take a budgeting course. Yes, I know, you already know how to budget. But you don't know how to budget with her, and she probably feels like you are super judgmental. You two have different financial priorities, and you two need to find a compromise. 

Also, I should mention that most teachers I know are not really worried about retirement because they have a sweet pension. It's one of the very few advantages of working in education. When I was working in the schools, at least 20% of my paycheck was going into my pension. And it's not like we can opt-out. (And side note: if the two of you were married while she was working, you would be entitled to some of that pension.) 

She needs to understand where you are coming from, and you need to understand where she is coming from.


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## MissBlue (5 mo ago)

Reluctant Texan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm at a bit of an impasse here, both in terms of what is fair and what I should do. I looked over the "financial problems in marriage" section, but didn't find anything helpful.
> 
> ...


not trying to be difficult but the best way is not to do it. Get a legit roommate if you want but leave the boyfriend relationship separate. Trying to turn a boyfriend into a roommate with benefits often doesn’t end well


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

BlueWoman said:


> This would be fair if you didn't have kids who came to stay. And even though they are staying every other weekend, my guess is those weekends can be expensive. Kids are just expensive.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think this is your issue.
> 
> ...


My other kids don't really add much in terms of the utilities. I mean, they may use a bit more electricity due to TV and video games, and we might spend another $30 in food on the weekends they're with us. Some of that we all eat, so it's almost negligible. If we all go out to eat, that gets expensive, but I always pay for that anyway. I also buy all their clothes, toys, etc.

No, she never got checked for post-partum depression. I don't think she was (or is) depressed in a clinical sense, although I think she may have had adjustment issues with motherhood. She is not shy or quiet about her unhappiness; my understanding is that depressed people bear a lot more of their pain and frustration silently; they don't scream and yell at their partners about it, right?

But we had some of the same issues before our baby was born, they simply got more heated for a time over the last year.

My intuition tells me her attitude - specifically her argumentative behavior - stems from the fact that she's unhappy with our overall situation. She's unhappy with the demands of motherhood, and unhappy we don't have the money to afford a more glamorous lifestyle for her, i.e. a nanny to help in the house, and more vacation time for her.

BUT... instead of coming to grips with the situation and accepting it for what it is right now, she's made it my fault, and constantly lets me know this is not what she wanted, and I'm not meeting her standards, mostly with snide comments here and there denigrating our situation, the house, the time she has, and my personal habits and hobbies. And sometimes more angry and pointed behavior.

I had started to resolve (to myself) that we are just not going to be happy with eachother long term. We want different things in life and have different attitudes toward what's realistic and important. she looks at what I want and openly disparages it as boring and monotonous, and I look at what she wants as wasteful and shallow (but I've largely kept that to myself).

I had hoped that we could bridge the gap here through love, compromise, and understanding but after seeing how nasty she gets when she presents a demand and my response is anything other than "_sure!_" I just don't think that's possible. And life's too short to spend it constantly fighting battles over how we should spend our time and money, especially into retirement when it's a finite quantity. Is she going to prioritize vacation time over saving money for our kid? I expect money I set aside for my kids from my prior marriage will get a lot of scrutiny, even if it's less than the money our son together gets. 

counseling - We have tentatively agreed that we should get counseling, but it's been almost impossible to find a counselor that can meet us when we're free, even remotely. We put the baby down and it's 7:30-8PM, and no one is still working then.

And we don't have relatives nearby that can help regularly. So it's been tough. We're more alone in this than we should be. I've even reached out to counselors I know to help find a solution here and they said we're in a "nationwide mental health crisis" and everyone they knew was booked & not seeing new clients.

For me, counseling may not resolve the issues, but help me see if they're possible of resolution. For me, fairness and honesty are the biggest issues... it's when I feel the other person is not being up front about what they want, and their complaints aren't made in good faith that I start to question the long term viability of a relationship. Like if she says "_I really just want XYZ_," and she gets that, and is still not content or happy with it, I start to question whether I have a partner or a bottomless pit I have to fill, you know?

Lastly, I don't think she has much of a pension. She worked in one district only for a few years, after college, prior to her 30's. And she had graduated from undergrad really late; so this was maybe 5-6 years of work.

After that, she taught abroad at two different private schools in Europe. I understand from her those paid better than teaching jobs in the US, and the tax treatment was more favorable, so she retained more of her salary. However, she didn't put any of this into retirement and it didn't go toward any pension eligibility or 401K. and this didn't translate into more money saved... as I said above, for her, more money saved = more money to spend traveling.

She started earning toward a pension again, when she moved back to the US in like 2015, but again it was in different districts... not sure how that works.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Reluctant Texan said:


> She started earning toward a pension again, when she moved back to the US in like 2015, but again it was in different districts... not sure how that works.


These are things that should be discussed. Ask her, "What are your plans for retirement?" "Do you have a pension?" "Do you have a 401K?" Tell her what you have set up for yourself and talk together about your expectations. It sounds like the two of you are coming from entirely different perspectives and she doesn't want to change how she does things. Rather, she wants you to change how you do things. Frankly, she sounds spoiled. She wants what she wants when she wants it and the future be damned.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Reluctant Texan said:


> No, she never got checked for post-partum depression. I don't think she was (or is) depressed in a clinical sense, although I think she may have had adjustment issues with motherhood. She is not shy or quiet about her unhappiness; my understanding is that depressed people bear a lot more of their pain and frustration silently; they don't scream and yell at their partners about it, right?


Nope. Anger is definitely a characteristic of depression.










Depression and Anger: Is There a Connection?


Anger can be a less obvious symptom of depression. Learn more about how it can show up as a depression symptom and how to find support.




www.healthline.com


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

update: closed on the house today, and the total monthly payment (which I feel like the mortgage lender hid the ball on me) is going to be several hundred dollars _more _than they lead me to believe and much higher than the number the broker and I discussed what I wanted to hit as my total out-of-pocket monthly payment.

I'm feeling a swirl of emotions right now... this is definitely going to make us (well... me) house poor for the foreseeable future. I'll be able to afford it, but my savings are gone & the monthly spending money goes down to much less (and I still have a wad of CC debt to pay off). 

It was a bad decision, and I'm mad I didn't put my foot down and tell her we were staying put and she could leave if she didn't like it. Our r/s has been improved but still tense at times, and it's not like that statement would've really made things worse in any meaningful way... she's going to be unhappy anyway in a week or two when she wants to go to breakfast or brunch instead of cooking, and I say no, we can't do that until I get my debt under control, and probably even more so when it dawns on her that I'm not kidding around, I'm really not going to have spending money like I did before now. 

On top of that, when we discussed how we'd furnish the new house, she threw a fit when I said I wanted to wall off the small dining area to make a home office (my employer lets me work remotely 100% of the time if I want, and my partner is always happier when I don't go in the office). She said she needed that room for a playroom for our baby, and started immediately ranting about how I should either just put a desk in our bedroom and work there, or in my older kids' bedroom "_since they're not really living here._" It's not just the desk though... I have a home library with a few hundred books I've been adding to over the years, file cabinets with all our documents, files, etc., and it's where I go to do the bills and write, and decompress.

The last comment about my other kids not really living with us I ignored at the time, but it's bothering me more now, when I take it all in... like I've bought the more expensive house she wanted, paid for everything, down payment was 100% me, and I'll be paying the mortgage which is solely in my name, and she's going to strut around like she owns the place? And tell me my other kids don't have a home in MY house? It's true their primary residence is at their mom's house, but they're still with us ~35% of the time, every other weekend, Thursdays during the school year, and for 3 day weekends & holidays. It adds up. 

I can ignore it and move on, but her attitude is just so confrontational and it's constantly like that. We disagree on something, and there's no way to have a cordial discussion or for her to offer a meaningful compromise...

I'm kinda venting, but I'm also afraid I just made a lousy situation much worse, and there's not going to be any easy way out, at least for the foreseeable future. I may have to turn around and sell the house, and go back to renting, or downgrade.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> Well that kind of changes everything dude. Not sure if that was unclear or if I just didn’t read your OP closely enough.
> 
> If you’re living in a house that will remain yours if you split up, then the mortgage is yours to pay. I wouldn’t contribute to a mortgage for a house that I had no equity in.
> 
> In this case, split all of the household expenses (other than the mortgage) and child-related expenses and leave it at that.


while she may not want to contribute to a house she will have no equity in - she would still be paying rent if she didn’t live with you.

what would her rent be if she lived somewhere else? Have her pay you that. No vacations until she is back to work. And no eating out. If she is at home - she should be cooking most every night to save on expenses.

sacrifices are usually made when one parent wants to stay home with no income.

she should pay half of the utilities and grocery bills too. She would pay that if she was living somewhere else.

have you asked her about returning to work sooner than the two year mark? Be careful - she may get pregnant again to avoid getting back to work.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> while she may not want to contribute to a house she will have no equity in - she would still be paying rent if she didn’t live with you.
> 
> what would her rent be if she lived somewhere else? Have her pay you that. No vacations until she is back to work. And no eating out. If she is at home - she should be cooking most every night to save on expenses.
> 
> ...


So all this above - her being a SAHM to our child and my kids from my prior marriage - she frames as her sacrifice. And I really don't ask her to do much for my kids. I pick them up and take them to school. And I usually cook for them, and I always put them to sleep. They're with us every other weekend, one night a week during the school year, and on holidays. SO it's not much of a burden for her.

I have a lot of trouble knowing what to say to that... in my mind, if you're going to frame a relationship as a sacrifice to the other person because "you gave up your fun single life for them" ... you should not be in the relationship. You should have stayed single. 

It's even more frustrating when I remember suggesting we call off living together after several fruitless months of being unable to find a place we agreed on, and she said if we didn't live together she was through. I _Actually_ called her out on that and said maybe that was the right decision for both of us (then she dialed it back... while still pushing me to find a place, and claimed she wasn't being difficult.



Beach123 said:


> have you asked her about returning to work sooner than the two year mark? Be careful - she may get pregnant again to avoid getting back to work.


I'm guessing she'll come to that conclusion on her own when she gets frustrated she can't indulge herself with impulse buys of things every other day. 

I don't want to be the one asking her to do it, although, either way my assumption - just based on how she frames our entire relationship and motherhood as a sacrifice she made for me - that she'll claim I forced her to go back to work. Along with a bunch of nonsense about how she wanted to stay with our baby.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

So she spent all her money during her single 20’s and 30’s and then, around 40, decided to have a child. Now she wants you to provide all she missed out on by not settling down sooner. That’s not likely to work long-term. Don’t marry her.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Honestly, I see a lot of blame shifting going on here. She told you what she was like. From what you are saying, she was very clear.

You didn't have to sign the mortgage paperwork. You didn't have to buy a new house. When you saw that the payments were higher, you could have said no. In all of this, you could have said no, yet you decided to have a baby with her and give in to all her demands. Now you are blaming it all on her. If things are going to improve for you, you have got to own your decisions. 

You are now in a situation where you won't be able to make ends meet if she moves out, because you will have all the current expenses, plus child support. Sure you could sell your newly purchased home, but that's going to cost you around 50K, based on what I see in my area. It could be more if your house is over 500K.

I recommend that you learn how to have a healthy relationship, because that is a vital skill, in your situation. You are also modeling dysfunction to all of your children.

Pick up "What Makes Love Last?" by John Gottman. Put into practice what he teaches. I suggest reading it aloud with your girlfriend. After that, keep reading his books. They are full of great information and tools for having a healthy relationship.

Lead the way to a better relationship. Encourage her. Be kind to her. But do not keep bowing to her pressure. Come to agreement together. I know you can't do that right now, but that is something that the two of you need to learn in order for your relationship to work and for your family to be healthy.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

One of you had to first bring up the idea of having a child. Not everyone who’s nearing 40 would agree to that. So either you mentioned it first or she did. If it was you, then I can see why she’s saying she had a child for you. But if it was her, then she’s rewriting history and trying to make you feel guilty (and give her whatever she wants).


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Reluctant Texan said:


> So all this above - her being a SAHM to our child and my kids from my prior marriage - she frames as her sacrifice. And I really don't ask her to do much for my kids. I pick them up and take them to school. And I usually cook for them, and I always put them to sleep. They're with us every other weekend, one night a week during the school year, and on holidays. SO it's not much of a burden for her.
> 
> I have a lot of trouble knowing what to say to that... in my mind, if you're going to frame a relationship as a sacrifice to the other person because "you gave up your fun single life for them" ... you should not be in the relationship. You should have stayed single.
> 
> ...


this sounds like you are reluctant to tell her how you feel. If you can’t - then you really don’t have an honest relationship.


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> One of you had to first bring up the idea of having a child. Not everyone who’s nearing 40 would agree to that. So either you mentioned it first or she did. If it was you, then I can see why she’s saying she had a child for you. But if it was her, then she’s rewriting history and trying to make you feel guilty (and give her whatever she wants).


When we were dating, she said she wanted to be with someone open to having more kids. I told her I was open to having more kids.

We just had one sooner than either of us expected.



Beach123 said:


> this sounds like you are reluctant to tell her how you feel. If you can’t - then you really don’t have an honest relationship.


I'm reluctant because of her reactions to things; she doesn't listen to me, she argues why I'm wrong.

Things have calmed down a bit; my mom reminded both of us that buying a home is one of the most stressful things to endure in life, and we should expect that.

She (fiancee) apologized for overreacting to
some things and getting ridiculously emotionally the other day. so... for now, okay.

Today she called me to say her CC was maxed out and she couldn't buy something she wanted. I could tell she was about to flip out, but contrary to what I expected she calmed down and said she was going to try to find some part time work she could do online at night (like translations or tutoring).

and she told me she got some advice from her older brother (who is married with kids). Which is good. prior to that she seemed to mostly confide in her younger brother, who is a good guy and all, but single, hard-partying, and not very responsible with money.

That seemed like progress from her.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Reading this thread reminds me why I won’t cohabitate with my gf. This sounds awful. I was so excited when I closed on my house, post divorce. Yours sounds like no joy whatsoever.
Why do you only get your kids every other weekend? Did you settle for that? Your gf never had kids and was over 40. Did she trap you into this baby? Why in the world were you not using protection? If she treats your kids differently (that comment would have hurt me too- they don’t really live here) that is a huge red flag. I think you have every right to protect yourself financially, but knocking her up, moving her in and proposing were all poor decisions. Those decisions alone will probably push your retirement back a decade or longer. From what you’ve said and what you feel, you should NOT marry this woman. It’s unfortunate you won’t have a cheap exit plan when she leaves. You’ll be paying child support to two women.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Had she lived with anyone before you? If not, that was bound to be a major adjustment at 40. If she had, well, she hadn’t had a child to deal with also. Does she want a second child?


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## Reluctant Texan (5 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Had she lived with anyone before you? If not, that was bound to be a major adjustment at 40. If she had, well, she hadn’t had a child to deal with also. Does she want a second child?


She did live with other BFs, but mostly short term, and in each case she was always free to leave because they never had kids. Her reasons why she left in each case are generally consistent... either the guys turned out to be too immature, or she had other concerns with how they'd treat her if/when they were married. 

She does not want a second child, nor do I; the pregnancy was hard on her. I know she's not just whining, because she had pretty bad morning sickness almost all through the entire term. While our baby is healthy and wonderful, we know we're playing against the odds in terms of complications or other issues if we have another. And also, having a kid after age 40 means when they're entering college, you're still working instead of planning retirement, which is going to suck. 

Although the world seems to be collapsing much sooner than we expected anyway, so it's not like any of us are going to be enjoying pleasant retirements in 20-30 years!


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