# Wife of 13 years has affair



## gkarats

Well I never thought I would be posting anything like this on a site like this, yet here I am. I have been married for 13 years to my wife, we have a 10 year old boy together. About a month or so ago I noticed my wife began to change from her normal quiet homebody self, to one that was losing weight buying new clothes etc. We talked about it and she proffessed she wanted to start thinking and taking care of herself...I welcomed it. 

Well last Friday she drops 2 things on me one that she had to go out of town for a work conference (not completely unusal as she does travel sometimes for work) and second that she had went out and gotten a brazilian. The latter set me back as she has never ever done that. Red flag. I spent the weekend as normal, she was to be leaving Wednesday, dropped a few questions about the trip. everything seemed normal and I definitely was not fully suspicious at this point. Wednesday rolls around and she leaves. I did not recieve a call from her that night, normally I would. I did not call her, eventhough I wanted to, I am not the jelous type, I did not want to be that guy, so I went to bed. 

Well I woke up Thursday morning early and concerned. I had a sickening feeling that I could not shake so I tried to see if I could locate her iphone (first time I ever did that) and bang it pinged her in a different city and different hotel. I print screened her location. I texted her telling I needed to talk. She called me back and stuck with her story that she was at a conference in a different city then she actually was. She also said that she might be heading back today (was suppose to be gone til saturday). I left it at that. Shortly later she texted she was on her way home. 

When I confronted her when she returned she told me she went to meet someone but nothing happened, she couldn't do it. She met this guy online they spent a month emailing back and forth (I read them all). The emails were a fantasy she said. That she needed it to be me. But I wasn't there for her or her sexual needs for many years. Which is partly true as I have not been sexually satisfied either, but did not seek it elsewhere. She knows what she did is wrong and is determined to fix this, she says she is never letting me go. 

But then there is this as well, Friday we talked some more and I said our marriage depends on her not emailing this guy again, not even to tell him you can't. I found out she did email him the next day, saying her husband found out and is watching this email do not respond sorry. So right away I'm like this is done. I know a couple things for sure, I love this girl and eventhough our sex life has sucked for years I still was happily married to her. My issue is how can I trust her again? I can not be the guy that watches her every move and wonders if she is thinking of me or someone else. I can't continue in this marriage if I can't get over that.


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## LostViking

She's lying. She met him and bedded him. 

Take her to a polygraph service and have them pull the truth out of her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy

She's lying. She's protecting the OM and the relationship. She is pushing the relationship underground.


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## SomedayDig

Yep. She's snowballing ya. It'll take a few years to get that "trust" back...which you'll always be wondering anyways.


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## Shaggy

She met him, had sex, AND is planning on continuing to meet him. 

1. You know she's planning on continuing with him because she told him the account had been compromised.

2. He's married. You know this means he is married or ivied with a girl. You know this because they would have gone to his placebo hookup, not a hotel in another city.

3. They've already met up before this. You know this because of the new clothes she's already been buying. If she wasn't meeting up with him, why would she need to dress up?

Suggestions

1. You need a key logger on the computer she uses to contact him. You need to know the sites they are using to contact each other.

2. You need to put VARS in her car to catch her phone calls to him.

3. Find him. Find his wife and expose his cheating to her.

4. Accept the fact that she had sex with him. You don't do all the work she did to say no at the last minute. If that was true she would have returned home that first night.

5. Demand a polygraph from her. Google polygraph and your city for providers.


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## tom67

Shaggy said:


> She met him, had sex, AND is planning on continuing to meet him.
> 
> 1. You know she's planning on continuing with him because she told him the account had been compromised.
> 
> 2. He's married. You know this means he is married or ivied with a girl. You know this because they would have gone to his placebo hookup, not a hotel in another city.
> 
> 3. They've already met up before this. You know this because of the new clothes she's already been buying. If she wasn't meeting up with him, why would she need to dress up?
> 
> Suggestions
> 
> 1. You need a key logger on the computer she uses to contact him. You need to know the sites they are using to contact each other.
> 
> 2. You need to put VARS in her car to catch her phone calls to him.
> 
> 3. Find him. Find his wife and expose his cheating to her.
> 
> 4. Accept the fact that she had sex with him. You don't do all the work she did to say no at the last minute. If that was true she would have returned home that first night.
> 
> 5. Demand a polygraph from her. Google polygraph and your city for providers.


:iagreeo all this or just divorce because she will take it underground.


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## thatbpguy

It appears she is lying to you. Her last text is so damning that I would say it is conclusive and that they are going to continue their betrayal.

It is clear she no longer loves you inspite of what she may say. It is also clear you are not getting the truth. and probably never will.

My suggestion is to leave and see what she does. If she clings to you and confesses all to you and really breaks it off then I suppose you have a 5-10% chance of making it together. Otherwise, she has betrayed you and kicked you to the curb.


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## thatbpguy

tom67 said:


> :iagreeo all this or just divorce because she will take it underground.


Tom67 makes a good point.

I think she has already taken her betrayal underground now that yoou know. You can spy on her and fight it or take a painful, deep breath and walk away.

Sorry to say.


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## russell28

She couldn't do it?

Try this:

"What do you think I'm an idiot? You went to another city, stayed in a hotel with a man, and you 'couldn't do it?' How about next time you contact him, tell him to clear a space for your stuff.. Bad enough you betray me and deceive me, but you can't even have the decency to not insult my intelligence with your pathetic and very unbelievable story, now how about the truth? If no truth, then I'll be happy to pack your things and let you know when you can come back and get them."

If she gives you more BS... next time she leaves the house, change the locks on the doors, tell her when she can get her stuff. Show her you are in charge now, and be in charge. Take control of the situation, don't let her control it, she's not in her right mind. She's self brainwashed, you need to snap her out of it and the way to do that is shock. You can also mention you need her to get tested for STDs because you want to know if you're going to die from AIDs now, that she might have killed herself and the father of her child. Cheaters don't use protection, because in cheater land, there is no disease, just fun and sunshine. Hopefully some of this will wake her up. Sorry you are here.


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## gkarats

from the emails I recovered they were in different hotels. He emailed her the morning after as well. 

I don't believe they have met before, just from the emails I read, but again I don't know what to believe anymore.

Why if I have exposed this would she want to stay with me, if she truely was going to continue meeting this guy? I can't explain that rationally.

He is married and older, and discretion was of importance to him (got that from the emails as well)


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## SomedayDig

Well, man I would blow his discretion out of the flippin' water! You've got his email, now do a little more research and find his wife.


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## gkarats

thatbpguy said:


> It appears she is lying to you. Her last text is so damning that I would say it is conclusive and that they are going to continue their betrayal.


Can't argue that


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## tom67

gkarats said:


> from the emails I recovered they were in different hotels. He emailed her the morning after as well.
> 
> I don't believe they have met before, just from the emails I read, but again I don't know what to believe anymore.
> 
> Why if I have exposed this would she want to stay with me, if she truely was going to continue meeting this guy? I can't explain that rationally.
> 
> He is married and older, and discretion was of importance to him (got that from the emails as well)


That's why you have to find a way to contact his wife and expose this-don't tell your wife.


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## thatbpguy

gkarats said:


> from the emails I recovered they were in different hotels. He emailed her the morning after as well.
> 
> I don't believe they have met before, just from the emails I read, but again I don't know what to believe anymore.
> 
> Why if I have exposed this would she want to stay with me, if she truely was going to continue meeting this guy? I can't explain that rationally.
> 
> He is married and older, and discretion was of importance to him (got that from the emails as well)


Because no betrayer will confess and then be divorced. That's too hard to do and admits too much.

Also, the wife of this guy HAS to know. If you have his name, print the emails and see to it she gets them- even if you have to take the time to hand deliver them. DO THIS!!


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## BK23

Read some of the newbie links. Exposure is key if you want to save your marriage. Your wife is in the "fog" of her new love. Exposure will snap her out of it. Especially when she sees how fast loverboy scurries away like a ****roach when you shine a light on him. 

If you don't want to save your marriage, and you're just done with this BS, I say expose anyway because it will be a hell of a lot of fun to watch karma sort these losers out.


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## gkarats

SomedayDig said:


> Well, man I would blow his discretion out of the flippin' water! You've got his email, now do a little more research and find his wife.


I have thought about this as well. But whats the point really. I'd rather put my head high and walk away


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## BK23

gkarats said:


> I have thought about this as well. But whats the point really. I'd rather put my head high and walk away


Even if you decided to walk away, don't you think his wife deserves to know?


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## badmemory

gkarats said:


> But then there is this as well, Friday we talked some more and I said our marriage depends on her not emailing this guy again, not even to tell him you can't. I found out she did email him the next day, saying her husband found out and is watching this email do not respond sorry. So right away I'm like this is done.


OP, you threw down the gauntlet, and she didn't comply. So now you've put yourself in a position where if you don't give her serious consequences, she'll take this as a sign of weakness. She'll be all the more likely to try something again because she doesn't fear repercussions.

You must wake her up to reality. Separate for at least a week or more and put your thoughts together. Do the 180 on her (find the link), talk to a lawyer and start divorce proceedings.

If and only if, she comes begging you back, demonstrates complete remorse, and complies with all of your requirements will you "consider" delaying the D. She must absolutely believe that you are on track to leave her and so should you. You have to be willing to end your marriage to have a chance at saving it.

You should do the following:

Make her send a no contact communication to the POSOM that you review. No sentimentality. If she has his home address mail him that letter yourself instead of e-mail. She then blocks his e-mail responses.

Expose this to your family and hers - and she better completely accept it. Expose to his SO if he has one. You might have to do some research and she has to help you.

She must come clean to you with the truth. If she doesn't then she must agree to a polygraph. She must openly communicate about this with you at any time, for as long as you want.

She must be transparent going forward. You get all her passwords. No more GNO's, no more texting or messaging with male friends. From now on. She must account for all of her time.

Monitor her covertly (cell phone records, VAR in her car, keylogger on her computer) for a few months afterwards.

Finally, she must "demonstrate" complete remorse for what she has done. Judge her actions, not her words.

If she doesn't agree to *all* of this, move on with D and the rest of your life. Your best chance for R is for her to receive these consequences so that you can judge her remorse.

Keep posting and good luck.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

thatbpguy said:


> It appears she is lying to you. Her last text is so damning that I would say it is conclusive and that they are going to continue their betrayal.
> 
> It is clear she no longer loves you inspite of what she may say. It is also clear you are not getting the truth. and probably never will.
> 
> *My suggestion is to leave and see what she does. If she clings to you and confesses all to you and really breaks it off then I suppose you have a 5-10% chance of making it together. Otherwise, she has betrayed you and kicked you to the curb.*


I don't believe for a second she didn't have sex with this man. First, I agree with the others that she isn't going to do all that just to say no. Second, if she decided she couldn't go through with it then they would have ended it right there ... there would be no need for follow-up emails.

I agree with the bolded part above except that I would tell her to leave. Get a hotel room or stay with relatives. 

If you want to have a chance at saving the relationship then force her hand. She has to realize what she can lose and that she will lose it unless she is willing to fight for the marriage. She has mentally checked out. She doesn't seem at all sorry. Force her to understand what she is risking ... through action, not words. You will find out at that point where you stand and what your chances are. 

I might be wrong but I get the impression you are willing to sweep this under the rug. That will not work. She is either going to continue the affair (she probably is) or at some point she will seek it out with someone else.


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## gkarats

BK23 said:


> Even if you decided to walk away, don't you think his wife deserves to know?


Good Point


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## russell28

gkarats said:


> from the emails I recovered they were in different hotels. He emailed her the morning after as well.
> 
> I don't believe they have met before, just from the emails I read, but again I don't know what to believe anymore.
> 
> Why if I have exposed this would she want to stay with me, if she truely was going to continue meeting this guy? I can't explain that rationally.
> 
> He is married and older, and discretion was of importance to him (got that from the emails as well)


Affairs like to hide in dark places, live in secret.. if you expose, you shine a bright light on it... If she wants to stay with you, it'll be because you woke her up to what she's doing or about to do.. you made her understand what she's about to lose, how her actions are hurting others including your son. She needs to feel some remorse, some guilt, some shame... She needs to accept that another man isn't the solution to your marital issues, it's a cop out that will destroy your marriage. You won't sit back and be her plan B... she needs to chose you or the other man, period. Don't beg or plead, stay strong. Don't let her continue to see another man while you're with her!!!! Shut that down... get his name, do a background check, find out his wife's phone number, give her a call and forward the emails to her. Let your wife know you're doing this, she'll try to protect him.


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## jnj express

everyone else is telling you the way it is

Now---since you really can't kick her out of the marital home---you move all her clothing and sundries, into a small room somewhere else in the house---do not allow her in the marital bedroom, and do not allow her the use of a nice roomy closet----SHOW HER WHAT LIFE WILL BE LIKE IN A SMALL APT.

Do not be mr lovey--dovey---do not be mr nice guy---in fact basically GO DARK ON HER---no 180---just GO DARK

As said above demand and set up a poly---go to your local police precinct--they will help you get a good operator

If you decide to R---make her sign a POST--NUP

check very closely for a burner phone----

tell her from now on---if she wants to stay in this mge---she is OFF any social website---take away her cellphone, that has all the modern conveniences---get her a phone that makes calls ONLY

She found this guy on the internet----from now on she is not to be on the internet

As of now, she is responsible for paying half of each and every bill the mge., is responsible for---house and car payments---ALL insurance payments---all necessities for living---every/any bill that comes in---she pays half of it

Cancel all her CC's---and take all the marital finances, and put them in an acct., with your name only on it

Give her a taste of what REALITY will look like

She is out of her mind---going off with jerks that she meets on the internet---she doesn't know a F'ing thing about someone she meets on the internet---all she knows is the BS, that comes from what he types----he could be crazy/criminal/druggie/conman---AND SHE GOES AND RUNS TO HIM

Probably correctly assuming she has done this before, as she knew how to hook up with him, and had herself a set story---she has probably, as was said above SLEPT WITH HIM ALREADY---so get yourself tested for STD

Beyond all of this---what you do with your mge, is up to you, and how much misery, you want to endure the rest of your life

One last thing---your so called wife, and mother, tells her son---what is going on---let her, let your son know---that she is responsible for nuclear winter reigning down on your house

The answer for problems in a mge---is to talk to each other---NOT MEETING STRANGERS ON THE INTERNET, AND RUNNING OFF TO SPREAD ONE'S LEGS FOR THEM


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## lewmin

you see gkarats, the other man has likely told your wife about his escape plan from his own marriage to run off with your wife happily ever after. Your wife, now in the deepest fog, fully believes it.

Now when you expose to the other man's wife with all the proof (don't tip your wife off on this), the other man will drop your wife like a rock and try to save himself. Your wife probably really means nothing to the other man, except as a thrill versus his own mundane marriage...but exposure, done the right way, will end this right away. And eventually, when the fog lifts, your wife will realize she was "used".

That's really the only hope you have - EXPOSE!


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## Gabriel

I have a different opinion on this.

1) I actually think this was to be their first sexual encounter. She was prepping for it, whereas she wasn't before. Case in point - it was her first Brazilian. Why not one before if they had already met up?

2) Emails prove they were in different hotels. They may have gone through with it, or maybe not. Inconclusive.

3) Her email to him saying her husband was watching the email is pretty bad. I agree with the rest on this. Sounds like she wanted him to cool it until she could figure out what to do. What doesn't make sense though, is she KNEW OP could read even THAT email, so why say that when OP could see it? :scratchhead:

Dude, what did she say to explain herself with that email to him? Did you even tell her you saw it?


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## Gabriel

Look, this is your wife and marriage. Maybe the responders here are right but maybe they are not. They are making a lot of assumptions, right or wrong. You need to do your own recon.

Given your sex life was bad, it really could have been her chasing some excitement, and then chickening out. I have had friends do this exact thing and then come to their senses before doing the deed. Your timeline suggests your W might be in her 30s - sexual prime. If you get through this, you need to take care of that, if you know what I mean.

You really need to hammer her on that last email to him, and continue to be very diligent. Damage has been done. Serious damage. Don't let her sweep it under the rug.


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## Cubby

gkarats, you need to move on this quickly. I agree with the others. She and the POS (piece of sh!t) had sex. Follow the instructions you've received on gathering evidence. It's a must to let the POS' wife know. You have to turn her world upside down and you have to be willing to walk away from the marriage in order to save it. Even though it sounds like you won't walk away, she has to receive the message loud and clear that you will. Don't be a wussy guy who tries to 'nice' her back. Never works, never will.


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## russell28

lewmin said:


> you see gkarats, the other man has likely told your wife about his escape plan from his own marriage to run off with your wife happily ever after. Your wife, now in the deepest fog, fully believes it.
> 
> Now when you expose to the other man's wife with all the proof (don't tip your wife off on this), the other man will drop your wife like a rock and try to save himself. Your wife probably really means nothing to the other man, except as a thrill versus his own mundane marriage...but exposure, done the right way, will end this right away. And eventually, when the fog lifts, your wife will realize she was "used".
> 
> That's really the only hope you have - EXPOSE!


Good point about tipping off your wife first.. I exposed and *then *told my wife I did it after the fact.


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## ReformedHubby

I still think she slept with him. I see this situation like a teenager who is already out past curfew. Might as well stay out all night and make the most of it. She could've come home right when she was busted.

I keep going back to the Brazilian Wax right before she left town. Who does that? As a former wayward why on earth would you do some "landscaping" right before you leave town? A dead giveaway.


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## Cubby

gkarats said:


> I have thought about this as well. But whats the point really. I'd rather put my head high and walk away


Put your head high and walk away? No....that's hanging your head low and walking away. Put your head high and do the right thing. Expose to the wife!


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Never met a woman who went thru the trouble of having a Brazilian and not show it off....

Lying thru her teeth. 

Follow the advice here or you will set yourself up for a ridiculous period of hell that can be at least miniized.


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## toonaive

follow all of the advise above. Ultimately, you need to protect yourself. If you decide to divorce, she will get very ugly with you. Too many men here including myself have lived or are living it. See an attorney to determine your rights either way. Make multiple copies of everything and put them in a very secure place, continue to monitor silently. NO more divulging of where your get your intel. Believe me, you need to take charge of this situation or it will eat you alive. Dont mean to scare you, thats just the way it is.


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## Gabriel

Lynch mob in full effect.

Maybe right, maybe wrong. But I think it is very feasible that she went through all the preparations, including the Brazilian, and then when it was time to pull the trigger, she couldn't morally do it. She's been married 13 years, presumably not been with anyone else all that time. Jitters are VERY common in situations like this.

She did say that she was going to be gone longer at first, right? And then came home the next morning instead? To me, that's someone that had a plan for a torrid multi-day sex romp, and then cut it short because she couldn't go through with it.

But then it was too embarrassing (and damning) to admit it to the H. And since she didn't go through with it, she figured, why tell him?

It's bad behavior nonetheless, and needs to be addressed, along with the last email she sent him. 

But hey, if everyone wants to say she definitely had sex - go ahead - but the information provided is anything but irrefutable here.

I'm one that almost never suggests using a polygraph, but this would be a perfect case for one. Set that up, and if she did the deed, she may admit it before you walk into the testing building.


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## LostViking

Gabriel said:


> Lynch mob in full effect.
> 
> Maybe right, maybe wrong. But I think it is very feasible that she went through all the preparations, including the Brazilian, and then when it was time to pull the trigger, she couldn't morally do it. She's been married 13 years, presumably not been with anyone else all that time. Jitters are VERY common in situations like this.
> 
> .


Would you like to by some beachfront real estate I have for sale in Nevada?


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## gkarats

Gabriel said:


> Dude, what did she say to explain herself with that email to him? Did you even tell her you saw it?


She said she wanted him to not email anymore, knowing that if he did I would see it and any progress we had made would be set back. Also that he was a gentleman when she changed her mind and that he needed to know it was done.


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## LostViking

You should have said "Gentlemen do not sleep with married women. He's a scumbag, and so are you."


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## badmemory

gkarats said:


> She said she wanted him to not email anymore, knowing that if he did I would see it and any progress we had made would be set back. Also that he was a gentleman when she changed her mind and that he needed to know it was done.


Slick.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Gabriel said:


> Lynch mob in full effect.
> 
> Maybe right, maybe wrong. But I think it is very feasible that she went through all the preparations, including the Brazilian, and then when it was time to pull the trigger, she couldn't morally do it. She's been married 13 years, presumably not been with anyone else all that time. Jitters are VERY common in situations like this.
> 
> She did say that she was going to be gone longer at first, right? And then came home the next morning instead? To me, that's someone that had a plan for a torrid multi-day sex romp, and then cut it short because she couldn't go through with it.
> 
> But then it was too embarrassing (and damning) to admit it to the H. And since she didn't go through with it, she figured, why tell him?
> 
> It's bad behavior nonetheless, and needs to be addressed, along with the last email she sent him.
> 
> But hey, if everyone wants to say she definitely had sex - go ahead - but the information provided is anything but irrefutable here.
> 
> I'm one that almost never suggests using a polygraph, but this would be a perfect case for one. Set that up, and if she did the deed, she may admit it before you walk into the testing building.


I would agree with you but for this: _*found out she did email him the next day, saying her husband found out and is watching this email do not respond sorry.*_

Sorry I cannot talk to you now....Not please never contact me in any way shape or form. Sorry she was caught. 

Go for the poly. She will fold.


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## alte Dame

No matter what really happened, how far it went, what the details are, this OM's W has a right to know. It gives me chills reading threads like this because it's so common to not consider the rights and feelings of the other BS.

We always say that cheaters are selfish, but isn't it pure self-interest to focus just on the WW and leave the BW in the dark? Wouldn't you want to know if she was the one to find all of this out?


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## Cubby

Gabriel said:


> Lynch mob in full effect.
> 
> Maybe right, maybe wrong. But I think it is very feasible that she went through all the preparations, including the Brazilian, and then when it was time to pull the trigger, she couldn't morally do it. She's been married 13 years, presumably not been with anyone else all that time. Jitters are VERY common in situations like this.
> 
> She did say that she was going to be gone longer at first, right? And then came home the next morning instead? To me, that's someone that had a plan for a torrid multi-day sex romp, and then cut it short because she couldn't go through with it.
> 
> But then it was too embarrassing (and damning) to admit it to the H. And since she didn't go through with it, she figured, why tell him?
> 
> It's bad behavior nonetheless, and needs to be addressed, along with the last email she sent him.
> 
> But hey, if everyone wants to say she definitely had sex - go ahead - but the information provided is anything but irrefutable here.
> 
> I'm one that almost never suggests using a polygraph, but this would be a perfect case for one. Set that up, and if she did the deed, she may admit it before you walk into the testing building.


Gabriel, you're right, it's possible she backed down. But do you think it's likely? You've been on this board for awhile, so you're no stranger to the typical admissions of wrongdoing that start out a lot more innocent than what's found out later.

Whether they fooked or not, the intent was there, and taking a trip to a hotel to be with some internet guy has to mean grave consequences to his wife (and for the POS if gkarats will do the right thing and expose.)


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## gkarats

Thanks for all the input everyone. I can tell there are a lot of angry and hurt people on this site. Perhaps this isn't exactly what I needed to hear but some of it rings true. I am a calm person in nature and tend to take life as it comes rather than worry and stress. I know now more than ever that I need to worry about me.

She did a horrible thing, unthinkable, she has put me in a place I would like to run and hide from. She has changed me as a person. She has stolen my sacred trust I had with her. and that is where the problem lies. She can assure me that she loves me, she can tell me our marriage will be better now (after some time), that both our needs and desires will finally be fulfilled, that she never wanted anyone else, and on and on. but all of that is nothing if I can't believe her and can't trust her again.

And I agree with everyone that the last email is unthinkable.


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## BjornFree

gkarats said:


> Thanks for all the input everyone. I can tell there are a lot of angry and hurt people on this site. Perhaps this isn't exactly what I needed to hear but some of it rings true. I am a calm person in nature and tend to take life as it comes rather than worry and stress. I know now more than ever that I need to worry about me.
> 
> She did a horrible thing, unthinkable, she has put me in a place I would like to run and hide from. She has changed me as a person. She has stolen my sacred trust I had with her. and that is where the problem lies. She can assure me that she loves me, she can tell me our marriage will be better now (after some time), that both our needs and desires will finally be fulfilled, that she never wanted anyone else, and on and on. but all of that is nothing if I can't believe her and can't trust her again.
> 
> And I agree with everyone that the last email is unthinkable.


No, people here aren't as angry or hurt as you think they are, they're just wiser. Stick around for a couple of months and you'll see so many cases of infidelity that you can predict the future more accurately than a newly betrayed spouse can imagine. 

What she did with the last email was give him subtle hint that she'd be open to restarting the affair as soon as things cool off on the home front.

Do you honestly believe she did nothing with him? Ask her to take a poly to prove it, guage her reaction. The first thing that a liar( and a cheater) will do is go on the defensive. That's usually how an inexperienced liar's mind works. Its the first sign you should be looking for when you discuss the affair. Don't believe her words, instead judge her for her actions. If she's telling you she loves you and gets batty every time you bring up the affair, she's not remorseful and probably never will be.

And lastly, if you're reconciling, do it on your terms. Even so the chances of successfully reconciling are slim. So keep that in mind when you make the decision and always keep a foot out the door until you feel that you're making any progress.


----------



## Acabado

I can't stress you enough the need to monitor her comunication devices from now on. She can even have a confidant/GF. Knpwing the way she talks/texts her will tell you tons about her state of mind and plans, more than any other thing.

So... keylogger, phone spyware, VAR, GPS... whatever. On her back.

And kill this forever by exposing him to his BW. Don't warnd, tell your wife about you are going to do it. BW needs to make informed decisions too.

She needs to send an standard NC letter.
She needs to provide complete transparence from now on.
She needs to diclose whatever was happened.
She needs to get STD tests, no matter if you buy the last minute change of mind.

I'm sorry man.


----------



## stevesvws

Lots of good advice and insight here. Lying or not, she went through the motions to make it happen. Unacceptable behavior in a marriage. 
Only you can decide how to move forward and your reading, gut and years of marriage will put you in the right place. 

If she wants back in your life and you want her, marriage counseling needs to start ASAP. At the worst, you will find out more about yourself, which we all a need and unfortunately infidelity seems to force us into it. 

My short story...so my experience can possibly help you. my wife and I are in our mid 30's we have 2 kids younger than 10. her affair was a huge wake up call. She is a really good person and we want to stay together,but she got lots of attention from another guy, single, no stress, good looking and only 21,which was more exciting than me. . I feel so dumb. 

D day was 3 months ago, my wife had an ea which led to a ons with a younger guy. Thank god i found out 3 days later, forced it to end. She did nc but the kid kept calling and they would talk for 30 mins. I called the kid, threatend to expose him and end his life unless he stayed the hell away from my family. Well that ruined all of their fun...

its been the worst thing in my life. But my wife immediately confessed, showed lots of remorse an we started working on things, started MC and I did a 180, am back in the gym, doing things for myself again. We each told a friend so there is a safety net. Things are progressing well so far. We haven't talked this much or been this close since the beginning of our 14 yrs. of marriage. Sex was good over all those years but have been excellent for the past 5 months and we both make sure to rock each others worlds each time. 

Apologies for the rambling, but I thought a short overview could help you in your decisions right now as all of this is still fresh in my head.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Gabriel said:


> Lynch mob in full effect.
> 
> Maybe right, maybe wrong. But I think it is very feasible that she went through all the preparations, including the Brazilian, and then when it was time to pull the trigger, she couldn't morally do it. She's been married 13 years, presumably not been with anyone else all that time. Jitters are VERY common in situations like this.
> 
> She did say that she was going to be gone longer at first, right? And then came home the next morning instead? To me, that's someone that had a plan for a torrid multi-day sex romp, and then cut it short because she couldn't go through with it.
> 
> But then it was too embarrassing (and damning) to admit it to the H. And since she didn't go through with it, she figured, why tell him?
> 
> It's bad behavior nonetheless, and needs to be addressed, along with the last email she sent him.
> 
> But hey, if everyone wants to say she definitely had sex - go ahead - but the information provided is anything but irrefutable here.
> 
> I'm one that almost never suggests using a polygraph, but this would be a perfect case for one. Set that up, and if she did the deed, she may admit it before you walk into the testing building.


It is possible ... very unlikely. Even if I was to believe she could go through all the preparation, travel, see him ... and not go through with it, what would convince me is the follow-up communication. If she had decided she couldn't do it then they likely would have ended it right then. If I'm the guy she met and she said no, I would not be contacting her right afterwards. Furthermore, how many WS tell the entire truth the first time? There is another thread here where the wayward fiance tried to convince him that yes, she met the OM, they took a shower together and spent the night ... but did not have sex. Really?


----------



## Gabriel

Cubby said:


> Gabriel, you're right, it's possible she backed down. But do you think it's likely? You've been on this board for awhile, so you're no stranger to the typical admissions of wrongdoing that start out a lot more innocent than what's found out later.
> 
> Whether they fooked or not, the intent was there, and taking a trip to a hotel to be with some internet guy has to mean grave consequences to his wife (and for the POS if gkarats will do the right thing and expose.)


The point is we don't know. I think it's inconclusive whether they had sex. I could see it going either way, actually. I just wanted to call out those who said with 100% certainty they had sex, based on a few paragraphs of information. Bunch of regular Sherlock Holmes'.

They might have, might not have. It's feasible either way. And I've stressed in my posts, that REGARDLESS, it's very bad behavior that needs to be addressed. AND, I'd go for the poly.


----------



## LostCPA

The only hope you have to reconcile is to get the whole truth on the table and both of you deal with it. I would simply tell her the following.

"I really want to trust you, but given the fact that you told me you were going to x for work and you really went to y to be with OM, I have no basis on which to trust you. The only way I can restore my trust in you is to verify what you tell me and over time my trust will be rebuilt as you prove your honesty to me. Therefor, I need a polygraph to prove the circumstances of your meetin gwith OM and I will need for you to take an STD test to prove to me it is safe for me to be with you."

I would also ask her to notify OM's wife in your presence to prove that she is more committed to your marriage than she is to OM. If she tries to protect OM from exposure then you know where you stand.


----------



## jnj express

You may be a calm person, and handle many things low--key

THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN ANY THING ELSE YOU WILL EXPERIENCE

This is the destruction of your sole---as you said before---you never bothered to check on her, cuz you had no reason NOT, TO BELIEVE HER---your carefree days are gone, your peace of mind is gone, your trust is gone

Your biggest problem, from now on, is within you--it is your sub--conscious---and you are going to have to deal with it

Your imagination is gonna kick-in, unless you know what actually happened-----you may think you can low-key your way thru this----normal people cannot---you will wake at 3 a m wondering---you will rip yourself apart as you drive yourself to and from work---you will sit at your work desk---wondering----WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THAT ROOM

Make your wife take a POLY---and find out once and for all what went on in that room---in that city, that your wife lied about----for what you must see is that-----your wife lied/manipulated, and planned to get what she wanted---AND THAT WAS A MEET WITH A STRANGE MAN----

You cannot low key your way out of this when it comes to your sub--conscious


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## Gabriel

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It is possible ... very unlikely. Even if I was to believe she could go through all the preparation, travel, see him ... and not go through with it, what would convince me is the follow-up communication. If she had decided she couldn't do it then they likely would have ended it right then. If I'm the guy she met and she said no, I would not be contacting her right afterwards. Furthermore, how many WS tell the entire truth the first time? There is another thread here where the wayward fiance tried to convince him that yes, she met the OM, they took a shower together and spent the night ... but did not have sex. Really?


She explained the email. The issue is does he believe her or not? That's the main point.

Do the poly. You'll find out a lot just by bringing it up. 

If she fails, or she admits to sex (or some sort of physical stuff) before the test, then you have more information with which to decide whether you want to stay in the marriage.

If she passes with flying colors, then no sex, but really bad behavior that is already awful and potentially a killer for your marriage. It takes a LONG time to get over the immense pain of your wife going behind your back and falling for another man in any way. Believe me, I speak from experience. Been 2 years and there are days I feel like dying still. But most days are very good.


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## Gabriel

LostViking said:


> Would you like to by some beachfront real estate I have for sale in Nevada?


Sure, just make sure it's either on Lake Tahoe or along the Colorado River by the Harrah's in Laughlin.


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## Ovid

It's likely they had sex, but true that there is not a 100% guarantee. That's not even the issue. The real problem is she tried, even if she didn't succeed. This is the best case for a poly I've ever seen. 

In order to rebuild trust with your wife you will need to test if she can be trusted. Ask her for OMs information so you can contact his W. See if she protects him, or gives you what you ask for.

Place a VAR in her car, key logger on the computer, and spyware on the phone without her knowing. This will give you the opportunity to see what she does when you aren't watching. It will help protect you from false R and help you to rebuild trust. If you catch nothing for 3 months stop looking and just do periodic checks.

Have your W write a complete timeline of the A with nothing left out.

Take some personal time to decide if you want to stay married. At least 30 days. Don't rush to a decision either way.

Talk to a lawyer to see what your rights are, and to determine what it would be like if you went for D.

Talk to your W about your potential future. Know that it will take 2-5 years for you to recover from this, and that it will always be with you. Find out if she's willing to do the heavy lifting.

Start lifting weights. It will help rebuild self confidence, and give you temporary relief.


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## doubletrouble

She's changed your whole relationship. You'll hear, and it's true, she's not the woman you married any more. You have to start over. 

Think hard about what went on and about what I just wrote. This changes the whole game, whether or not there was actual PIV sex.


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## russell28

Gabriel said:


> The point is we don't know. I think it's inconclusive whether they had sex. I could see it going either way, actually. I just wanted to call out those who said with 100% certainty they had sex, based on a few paragraphs of information. Bunch of regular Sherlock Holmes'.
> 
> They might have, might not have. It's feasible either way. And I've stressed in my posts, that REGARDLESS, it's very bad behavior that needs to be addressed. AND, I'd go for the poly.


The folks who say 'more than likely' are ones like myself that heard EA... then heard a couple months, then heard just x times, then heard a couple years, then heard half a decade, then heard they were using the sisters apartment and calling out of work sick to spend the day together...

The first admission of guilt is usually about 1% of the truth if we're providing percentages.


----------



## lenzi

gkarats said:


> I have thought about this as well. But whats the point really. I'd rather put my head high and walk away


If you're strong enough to just cut her loose and move on, that is definitely the best approach. Most people who post here have been unable to do that because they cannot survive without their cheating partner and will do anything to get them back -even though they will never be able to trust them again- and will tell new posters such as you that you must expose and tell the other man's wife and all of that, and how just walking away is in some way shameful.

It's not.


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## Jasel

She starts getting dressed up, taking care of herself, gets a brazillian wax, starts exhibiting weird personality changes, goes off to a city where a man she's at least been having an EA with will be, and when she gets confronted by you about all of this her explanation is "Well we were going to have sex, but didn't." I bet she has a river she'd try to sell you too. They most likely had sex.

Believe me the people here aren't angry or bitter. It's just there are thousands of stories on this website and they aren't all that unique when you read through many of them. While what you're going through is obviously devastating your story in itself isn't unique either compared to many of the others here.

People are telling you what you need to do in order to save your marriage or at the very least save yourself from as much mental turmoil as possible. They're not telling you this because they're pulling it out of their ass, they're telling you this because this is what posters here have used that works.

I know you say you're a laid back guy but if you're serious about your marriage then you need to drop that mentality and start playing hardball like _now_.

You need to find the OM wife and expose ASAP. Don't email HIM, don't tell your wife that you plan to do it, and when you do expose to his wife *make sure you have concrete proof to give/email her*. If you do this there is a more than a likely chance he will drop your wife like a bad habit because he doesn't want to lose his wife or HIS family. I'd also expose to your own family as well as hers because that will help break HER out of the fog. Friends are good too. Affairs are like ****roaches, they can't stand light and exposure. Right now your wife is partly living in a fantasy world. You need to destroy that fantasy with the reality of actual consequences.

Do not make threats to her that you won't back up when she doesn't follow through with a promise she makes. Do not draw a line in the sand with an ultimatum and when she crosses it, just draw another line with another ultimatum for "the next time". She won't take you seriously.

I'd even suggest talking to a lawyer and having divorce papers drawn up. It doesn't mean you have to go through with it, you have to file them, or can't just withdraw them later. Just have them drawn up and give them to her. But your wife needs to see that you're dead serious and what she has done has real consequences. 

And all of this needs to be done sooner rather than later. The longer you allow your wife to live in the fog consequence free the harder it will be to get her out of and save your marriage.

You can't "nice" your wife out of an affair. You can't walk on eggshells with her and hope that eventually she'll come around and suddenly remember what a loyal husband you've been. You can't be afraid of "making her mad" at you for exposing HER cheating ways.


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## LostCPA

lenzi said:


> If you're strong enough to just cut her loose and move on, that is definitely the best approach. Most people who post here have been unable to do that because they cannot survive without their cheating partner and will do anything to get them back -even though they will never be able to trust them again- and will tell new posters such as you that you must expose and tell the other man's wife and all of that, and how just walking away is in some way shameful.
> 
> It's not.


I walked away with my head held high and have been happily divorced for some time now. I'm not big on reconciliation because I haven't seen a lot of long term success. But, that doesn't mean that there aren't success stories and I believe that if that's what you really want to do then that's what you need to do. I also believe that if you want to try to recover that you do it from a position of strength and that you need to control the requirements and not your WS.

I did expose to OMW even though I walked away. It was not for revenge, but it was because I thought she had a right to know. I just couldn't let her continue walking down the railroad tracks without warning her that a train was coming. I would hope that others would do the same for me.


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## Thound

Wish Rdmu or dryeyes would show up and give some advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

dreyes was a troll


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## Shaggy

What's with the Lynch mob and other comments?

The folks here are giving hard earned good advice on dealing with the situation, and I dont get why a number of people seem vested in down playing what she willingly chose to do.

She -

- spent months talking to this guy behind bubbles back. So shes already having at minimum an EA/online affair, that clearly included sexual talk , since you don't run off to a weekend with your lover if you neve even talked about sex in your relationship,

- she bought new clothes for the lover

- she likely bought new lingerie for him too (btw, find it and trash it)

- she had a freaking Brazilian wax for her lover

- she concocted a false story about going on a business trip

- she spent family money on air tickets and a hotel room and maybe a car to meet her lover

- she went dark or husband for her time with the lover

- she didn't come clean on her own, her husband had to grill her after he found out she was lying and in a different city 

- she swore she was again loyal to her husband, had decided it was all wrong on her part and she only wanted him. She agreed to NC AND then promptly contacted her lover to warn him that her husband had found out and that the email account was compromised.

Sorry campers, but why is anyone defending this woman or suggesting that the OP just let it slide?

Btw, a gentleman who seeks distretion from the woman he is meeting to hav sex with is a real scum bag. It says that his SOLE purpose was to have sex with her.

Given the level of effort she went to, she didn't take a look at him and run off. At a bare minimum they got naked , she had the wax job to show off, and maybe he sucked in bed?

Demand the polygraph

Find how they met each other initially

Do you have his phone number? Use it to track him and his wife down and tell his wife. Do NOT mention even thinking about this to your wife - she will immediately try to warn him so he can block you.

Do you have her hotel records? How many guests are listed? Did they order room service or other charges.?


.


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## workindad

Op maybe she didn't go through with it maybe she did. Honestly she in Spent a lot of time money and energy to back out at the last minute. Point is you only have her word which is worth very very little and a cover email. I can send you an email from the same room that could prove story setting and not that they were apart. My point is you have nothing but her word and that borders on useless right now. She couldn't even abide by your no contact request. 

Out him to his wife and do not mention it to yours at all. See if she doesn't find out. I would also use a VAR if you are interested in more truth. 

I absolutely agree with the poly. Judge her reaction and do not be surprised by the sudden rememberance of details. 

I wish you well. Whatever you do. Out him. His wife deserves to know and may know more than you. 

This may not be his first rodeo hence the undrstanding on his end for secrecy. Do not reward him with privacy. 

You wife's comment that he was a gentleman is a disgrace. She obviously does not understand the word. 

My post may sound pro D but it is not. The choice is ultimately yours. But i believe that you need to act strongly. More so if you plan to R.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

To sum up:

1) Maybe they had sex, maybe they didn't. Everyone agrees is possible, some say likely, some say definitely.

2) Get the polygraph. EVERYONE agrees with that. Do it.

3) Divorce or not. Up to you, not anybody here.

Good luck.


----------



## russell28

lenzi said:


> If you're strong enough to just cut her loose and move on, that is definitely the best approach. Most people who post here have been unable to do that because they cannot survive without their cheating partner and will do anything to get them back -even though they will never be able to trust them again- and will tell new posters such as you that you must expose and tell the other man's wife and all of that, and how just walking away is in some way shameful.
> 
> It's not.


There's no shame in walking away, there's also no shame in trying to work at saving a marriage if you still love the person and care enough to help yourself AND them. That also takes strength, don't be fooled into believing that walking away takes strength and trying to R is a weak move. That is a myth.


----------



## Gabriel

Completely agree. Different kind of strength. Sometimes running from the problem is the weak move.


----------



## Ovid

R and D are both hard. You have to decide what you want, and what you are able to do. I wouldn't attempt R without WW being fully commited to it though.


----------



## lenzi

russell28 said:


> don't be fooled into believing that walking away takes strength and trying to R is a weak move. That is a myth.


Its a weak move if the cheater isn't remorseful and willing to bend over backwards and do everything it takes to make it right which of course includes ending the affair and cutting contact with the affair partner.

I've seen betrayed partners wanting to reconcile while the cheater is still with the other person, with no real interest in giving up the affair- now that's weak no matter how you slice it.


----------



## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT?

Agree with Russell and Gabriel. You will hear many claim that Divorcing is the easier decision, easier to "cut and run." You will others claim that Reconciling is the easier decision, easier to stay in the safety of a broken marriage than to face the uncertainty of starting over, alone. 

The thing is, they are both easier. And harder. The key is to understand the MOTIVATION for the decision to D or R.

If someone decides to divorce because they just don't want to put all the work in to try and R, then it is the easier way out. If they feel the marriage wasn't all that good, and they like the idea of getting to start over with someone else, it's the easier way out. Doesn't make it wrong at all, BTW. But if someone decides to divorce because they know deep down they will never be able to trust that person again or build a successful relationship, it may be the much harder route. 

If someone decides to R because they can't imagine trying to start over at this point in their life, then R is the easier choice. If they are scared of not being able to meet someone better, or of being alone, R is the easier choice. If they are scared of losing half of everything, what other people will say etc, then R is the easier choice. But if they decide they are willing to give a remorseful spouse a second chance, and are willing to put in all the hard work and push through all of the pain of building a better, healthier marriage, then R may be the much harder route.

So to say D or R is better/worse or easier/harder is a fool's thought. Only the person facing the choice and understanding the motivations for what they are doing can know. My only advice is to make sure you are making the decision from a place of strength and not from a place of fear. As long as you do that, you are making the right decision.


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## lenzi

You make a lot of good points, except this one I question.



NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME said:


> But if someone decides to divorce because they know deep down they will never be able to trust that person again or build a successful relationship, it may be the much harder route.


I get that reconciliation is possible, but that reconciliation carries a heavy price. That person can never, ever be completely trusted and you must always keep one eye open for the duration of the relationship. If they cheated once, it says a lot about their character, and there's a good chance it may happen again despite their reassurances to the contrary.


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## warlock07

Maybe he went back to his hotel or she went back to hers. They had the whole day


----------



## tulsy

lenzi said:


> ...
> 
> I get that reconciliation is possible, but that reconciliation carries a heavy price. That person can never, ever be completely trusted and you must always keep one eye open for the duration of the relationship. If they cheated once, it says a lot about their character, and there's a good chance it may happen again despite their reassurances to the contrary.


I get that...totally. Which is why I am almost always leaning towards divorce. If you can never really trust the person, then what is the point of being with them? That is no way to live life, watching over someone like a warden. 

Without trust, there is no point in staying married. Some people say "trust, but verify", which when stretched over years amounts to an unsavory life, IMO. 

OP, would you ever be able to trust her again?


----------



## badcompany

Her email reply translates to "we got caught, time to create a different anon email account and go more underground".
Expose to OMW, go spy mode on the computer, phone, and car, get her to the polygraph. Prepare for a split up financially. 
If she so much as twitches "push the button".


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> dreyes was a troll


AND aparently Rdmu got what he wanted from us and deemed that we aren't worthy of hearing what happened - From confontation to present.

Not much chance we'll ever hear from him again..


----------



## Rookie4

gkarats said:


> from the emails I recovered they were in different hotels. He emailed her the morning after as well.
> 
> I don't believe they have met before, just from the emails I read, but again I don't know what to believe anymore.
> 
> Why if I have exposed this would she want to stay with me, if she truely was going to continue meeting this guy? I can't explain that rationally.
> 
> He is married and older, and discretion was of importance to him (got that from the emails as well)


 Why is it that the first thing most BS's do is try to give their WS's an out? Dude, you are trying to excuse her against the posters here,. Why did you come , if you are going to defend the cheater? She is definitely cheating, and has probably had sex with him and is planning to continue, underground. Don't look for any rational reason, cheaters don't usually think all that rationally, but with more cunning. You need to take her to the bank on this or your marriage is Kaput.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

gkarats,

Good luck sleeping while your WS is doing who knows what on her next buisness trip. And the next trip. And the next trip..

At least she's works hard on looking good for these trips.

You must be proud.


----------



## Rookie4

Acabado said:


> I can't stress you enough the need to monitor her comunication devices from now on. She can even have a confidant/GF. Knpwing the way she talks/texts her will tell you tons about her state of mind and plans, more than any other thing.
> 
> So... keylogger, phone spyware, VAR, GPS... whatever. On her back.
> 
> And kill this forever by exposing him to his BW. Don't warnd, tell your wife about you are going to do it. BW needs to make informed decisions too.
> 
> She needs to send an standard NC letter.
> She needs to provide complete transparence from now on.
> She needs to diclose whatever was happened.
> She needs to get STD tests, no matter if you buy the last minute change of mind.
> 
> I'm sorry man.


Acabado, I'm assuming that you meant NOT to tell his wife until AFTER he has blown the lid to the OM's wife. Don't give either of them a heads up.


----------



## Rookie4

Gabriel said:


> Lynch mob in full effect.
> 
> Maybe right, maybe wrong. But I think it is very feasible that she went through all the preparations, including the Brazilian, and then when it was time to pull the trigger, she couldn't morally do it. She's been married 13 years, presumably not been with anyone else all that time. Jitters are VERY common in situations like this.
> 
> She did say that she was going to be gone longer at first, right? And then came home the next morning instead? To me, that's someone that had a plan for a torrid multi-day sex romp, and then cut it short because she couldn't go through with it.
> 
> But then it was too embarrassing (and damning) to admit it to the H. And since she didn't go through with it, she figured, why tell him?
> 
> It's bad behavior nonetheless, and needs to be addressed, along with the last email she sent him.
> 
> But hey, if everyone wants to say she definitely had sex - go ahead - but the information provided is anything but irrefutable here.
> 
> I'm one that almost never suggests using a polygraph, but this would be a perfect case for one. Set that up, and if she did the deed, she may admit it before you walk into the testing building.


Do much drama, Gabriel? This is no lynch mob. What the OP has ALREADY gone through is more than enough for him to take action, and he should start right away.


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## BobSimmons

Not posted on this topic, probably won't lots of good advice here, but just to answer OP

I'm not angry or hurt. I have been betrayed. I wasted a good part of my life rug sweeping and generally being in denial. Had this site been available back then it would have offered me invaluable information and support, probably given me the incentive to see what was really happening and get my act together and GTFO.

I come here to advise folk, give them my two cents, because I never want anyone to go through what I went through. People here may be a tad harsh, but reality is harsh. Just like the reality your partner has cheated on you. While we do hurt, we do all we can to minimize it, make excuses to reconcile, try to bury the obvious instead of bringing and dealing with everything in the cold light of day.

*just a note: There's a difference between ending contact and telling someone my husband found out please do not respond. That wasn't a goodbye. That was a see you later.


----------



## Gabriel

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> AND aparently Rdmu got what he wanted from us and deemed that we aren't worthy of hearing what happened - From confontation to present.
> 
> Not much chance we'll ever hear from him again..


I had my suspicions RDMU was a troll. I backed off on them. But he sure became frustrating at the end - very cryptic, not wanting to talk about anything. Strange. My theory on that was he went back to his wife, after everything she had done, and didn't want the TAM tongue lashing for doing so.


----------



## JCD

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It is possible ... very unlikely. Even if I was to believe she could go through all the preparation, travel, see him ... and not go through with it, what would convince me is the follow-up communication. If she had decided she couldn't do it then they likely would have ended it right then. If I'm the guy she met and she said no, I would not be contacting her right afterwards. Furthermore, how many WS tell the entire truth the first time? There is another thread here where the wayward fiance tried to convince him that yes, she met the OM, they took a shower together and spent the night ... but did not have sex. Really?


I think there is a likelihood that she couldn't do a home run, but passed a few too many bases for comfort. Her change in plan happened AFTER she was busted, btw.

But here is the thing: the intent, to me, is more important than the act. It was her intent to go and cheat. She brazenly did a great deal of preparation, between losing weight, buying new clothes FOR HIM with YOUR MONEY and waxing herself till she gleamed. That isn't spur of the moment. 

BTW, that whole "I'm calm and confident, not a needy or suspicious man who is bothered by little things the proles worry about..." How well is that working out for you now? 

You came across as pretty damn smug and condescending to people who are trying to help you.


----------



## Ovid

Intent is everything.


----------



## ThePheonix

There are multiple possibilities in this story. 1. She changed her mind. 2. The BF changed his mind. 3. The BF wife figured it out and put the quaweedus on it. A polygraph in a case like this would clarify things a lot. Usually the decision to pull the plug on the affair would be done before the Brazilian. 
What stands out is the email saying "her husband found out and is watching this email do not respond sorry." Makes me wonder if she was afraid he was going to comment on how nice the Brazilian turned out.


----------



## Gabriel

Am I the only one that thinks it makes no sense that the wife would actually announce she got a Brazilian to her H, before the planned encounter with the AP?

:scratchhead::scratchhead:

Hey OP, care to post again? Where'd you go....


----------



## ThePheonix

Well Gab, I'd assume he'd figure it out rather quickly if she didn't tell him.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Gabriel said:


> Am I the only one that thinks it makes no sense that the wife would actually announce she got a Brazilian to her H, before the planned encounter with the AP?
> 
> :scratchhead::scratchhead:
> 
> Hey OP, care to post again? *Where'd you go...*.


He went to "Rugsweep Land", where no matter what the evidance shows - Your wife has never cheated on you.


----------



## gkarats

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> He went to "Rugsweep Land", where no matter what the evidance shows - Your wife has never cheated on you.


Nope not in "RugSweep Land". Just not in front of the computer all day. I have all the emails she thought were erased. I know everything. That they met online from an ad she posted. I know about every conversation they had from the day he replied. That she didn't use her real name nor did he and did not give out personal info such as phone #s etc. that both stressed the importance of not wanting ruin their current marriages. I read every one of them. I have a complete picture of how it progressed up until they met.

I'm not an idiot but the evidence is overwhelming. Do I love her, yes. Is that blinding me? I don't believe so. I have questions and decisions to make. My trust is gone. Can I trust her again? Only time will tell. But at this point I am not in any position to make a decision either way. I'm angry, hurt, upset, sick. I owe it to myself, my son to wait till I am in a more rational mind to decide wether this marriage is worth trying to save. 

She on the other hand is willing to do anything to prove to me that she loves me and she will not let me go she says. 

Time will tell. I will be sure to keep you posted on any further updates.


----------



## Shaggy

Btw, grab the panties she wore on the trip, have them tested for semen.


----------



## jim123

What you do now is very important. You need to get control.

Ask her to leave. 

Go see an attorney.

Go to an MC.

Give it a few days and then give her one chance to tell the truth.


----------



## BjornFree

gkarats said:


> Nope not in "RugSweep Land". Just not in front of the computer all day. I have all the emails she thought were erased. I know everything. That they met online from an ad she posted. I know about every conversation they had from the day he replied. That she didn't use her real name nor did he and did not give out personal info such as phone #s etc. that both stressed the importance of not wanting ruin their current marriages. I read every one of them. I have a complete picture of how it progressed up until they met.
> 
> I'm not an idiot but the evidence is overwhelming. Do I love her, yes. Is that blinding me? I don't believe so. I have questions and decisions to make. My trust is gone. Can I trust her again? Only time will tell. But at this point I am not in any position to make a decision either way. I'm angry, hurt, upset, sick. I owe it to myself, my son to wait till I am in a more rational mind to decide wether this marriage is worth trying to save.
> 
> She on the other hand is willing to do anything to prove to me that she loves me and she will not let me go she says.
> 
> Time will tell. I will be sure to keep you posted on any further updates.


Dig Deeper. Search through the spam and trash folders too. If she's set up an ad and used an alias this might not be her first tango. Install a keylogger in her laptop or the desktop. A voice activated recorder could be handy, hide one in the car and one in your bedroom. Check cellphone records. Grab her panties and test them for semen. 

Was her behavior at home different? Or was she normal? What tipped you off? If her behavior didn't change, you've got a possible serial cheater here and an experienced one to boot.

Can you remember times when she used to come back home smelling pleasantly or she looked like she had a shower? Does she go out with her girlfriends on the weekends? If so what time does she get back home?

Which ad site did she use? Was it a dating profile or craigslist? 

Don't skip the poly. DNA the child. You never know........

Have her write down a timeline from the time they met till they consummated their affair. Have her write it backwards.

Copy all her correspondences and save it on cloud or in a thumb drive. Make multiple copies and deliver it in person to the OM's wife. She deserves to know.

Now that your wife tipped him off. He'll be covering his bases hoping that you won't expose. Don't expose right now. First compile as much evidence as you can. Then boom hit him with everything you've got. Don't give him fair warning. Don't threaten him, don't find him and beat the sh!t out of him. Go the exposure route. If you can get hold of a member of his family( Think Facebook). Expose there. Don't be afraid to sully his reputation.

Regarding D and R. Take your time making the decision. Weigh the pros and cons of staying and leaving. But remember making a decision even if it is a bad decision is much better than making no decision at all. Talk to an attorney anyway. See how much you've got to lose in case of a divorce. Separate the money for now. If you do make a decision to reconcile in the coming weeks and months, execute a post-nup.


----------



## AngryandUsed

gkarats said:


> Nope not in "RugSweep Land". Just not in front of the computer all day. I have all the emails she thought were erased. I know everything. That they met online from an ad she posted. I know about every conversation they had from the day he replied. That she didn't use her real name nor did he and did not give out personal info such as phone #s etc. that both stressed the importance of not wanting ruin their current marriages. I read every one of them. I have a complete picture of how it progressed up until they met.
> 
> I'm not an idiot but the evidence is overwhelming. Do I love her, yes. Is that blinding me? I don't believe so. I have questions and decisions to make. My trust is gone. Can I trust her again? Only time will tell. But at this point I am not in any position to make a decision either way. I'm angry, hurt, upset, sick. I owe it to myself, my son to wait till I am in a more rational mind to decide wether this marriage is worth trying to save.
> 
> She on the other hand is willing to do anything to prove to me that she loves me and she will not let me go she says.
> 
> Time will tell. I will be sure to keep you posted on any further updates.


Gkarats,

I understand your situation. Most of us do. Because we have been there.

Do you understand why she did online thing? Did you ask her? Did she tell you?

Do you know the reasons why she lied to you? 

Come, wake up.

I know you are in anger, disbelief, and hurt. Since you are new to this state of "betrayed", it is important for you to wake up. I know you did wake up partially.

Are you arranging for a poly?

*She will do anything to prove that she loves you? *

That is a blatant attempt to save herself. She knows that you are committed, have a son and you will need her. She should have the consequences of her cheating (?), lying. Are you listening?


----------



## JCD

She met him through *an ad?!?* One SHE posted?

Jesus wept.

You have very deep issues in your marriage that your wife would use THIS method to cheat. Normally it is because of emotional attachment to a guy she already knows and sees.

She went looking. (shakes head)

You are correct. You are not in a good place to make decisions. Let me help you by suggesting that you do the 180 for now.

Here is a link.

Normally, it is used to gain emotional distance from someone you love. It's primary purpose is NOT punitive nor a way to 'win' the spouse back. (though these are bonuses if they happen) It is to give you some time and distance inside to make the choices you need to make while making it harder for the cheating spouse to hurt you more.

Whatever weight you give to your son, halve it. People seriously overestimate the impact divorce has on children. He should be considered, but you will not be canonized by staying in a bad marriage 'for the children'.


----------



## Horizon

gkarats said:


> Nope not in "RugSweep Land". Just not in front of the computer all day. I have all the emails she thought were erased. I know everything. That they met online from an ad she posted. I know about every conversation they had from the day he replied. That she didn't use her real name nor did he and did not give out personal info such as phone #s etc. that both stressed the importance of not wanting ruin their current marriages. I read every one of them. I have a complete picture of how it progressed up until they met.
> 
> I'm not an idiot but the evidence is overwhelming. Do I love her, yes. Is that blinding me? I don't believe so. I have questions and decisions to make. My trust is gone. Can I trust her again? Only time will tell. But at this point I am not in any position to make a decision either way. I'm angry, hurt, upset, sick. I owe it to myself, my son to wait till I am in a more rational mind to decide wether this marriage is worth trying to save.
> 
> *She on the other hand is willing to do anything to prove to me that she loves me and she will not let me go she says. *
> 
> Time will tell. I will be sure to keep you posted on any further updates.


Sorry 4 you gkarats - tell me, what has your wife actually done since DDay to win you back?


----------



## Tony55

If she solicited a hit-man, and then lied about a business trip so she can go meet with the hit-man at a hotel, and you found out and confronted her, and she admits she considered offing you but decided not to go through with it, and that she loves you and won't give you up...

How would you sleep at night? One eye open? Think you'll ever trust her again? Do you think the analogy is unrealistic?

She murdered your trust, knifed your heart, wounded your soul, and you know she did because you can feel the pain in your chest as you read this. This won't be the last time she takes out a hit on your heart, you'll see, a woman who goes to the lengths she did to meet someone isn't done with her mission, she's just taking a break.

T


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Gabriel said:


> Am I the only one that thinks it makes no sense that the wife would actually announce she got a Brazilian to her H, before the planned encounter with the AP?
> 
> :scratchhead::scratchhead:
> .


To me, it is a form of gaslighhting many of us encountered. It is similar to the admission "oh my friend has been calling me" or " I bumped into such and such today." Oh and my personal favorite "Oh I hate that person" for no reason at all. Building up the lie early so when you question it, you say "oh the WS was trustworthy he/she told me about this number/person/friend" and you let it go until it is too late.

You know the ol CYA.


----------



## warlock07

Where did she post the ad ?


----------



## dogman

gkarats said:


> Thanks for all the input everyone. I can tell there are a lot of angry and hurt people on this site. Perhaps this isn't exactly what I needed to hear but some of it rings true. I am a calm person in nature and tend to take life as it comes rather than worry and stress. I know now more than ever that I need to worry about me.
> 
> She did a horrible thing, unthinkable, she has put me in a place I would like to run and hide from. She has changed me as a person. She has stolen my sacred trust I had with her. and that is where the problem lies. She can assure me that she loves me, she can tell me our marriage will be better now (after some time), that both our needs and desires will finally be fulfilled, that she never wanted anyone else, and on and on. but all of that is nothing if I can't believe her and can't trust her again.
> 
> And I agree with everyone that the last email is unthinkable.



It really sounds like you want to put your head in the sand. That's ok, you can do that but be prepared for a lot more heartbreak.

One of the best things about this site is that the people on here will give you an objective view of your wife's behavior based on the knowledge of the "script" that cheaters or even "almost cheaters" follow.
I'll tell you what....it opened my eyes! And I'd rather be suspicious and be careful than believe a person whose track record as of late is seriously blemished.

Good luck to you and sorry you're here.


----------



## Gabriel

Next time she says, "I'm not letting you go." Tell her, "Honey, that's really not up to you."


----------



## bfree

warlock07 said:


> Maybe he went back to his hotel or she went back to hers. They had the whole day


Oldest trick in the book is for affair partners to book rooms in different hotels in the same city but spend all their time in one. I would bet that this guy is an experienced cheater and coached the OP's wife on what to do.


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## Shaggy

Was the ad on AM or Craig's list? 

Who puts out an add to find a lover? Really? Certainly not a first time cheater.

You sir need to schedule a polygraph and you need to be ready to uncover some serious nasty discoveries because there is so much she has not told you.

Her warning to him and how direct she was speaks volumes about her experience cheating and her true loyalty. She immediate sought to warn him about being compromised and to warn him about not using that account to contact her,

Get that polygraph.

At the sometime, get all her passwords and accounts

Get the credit card charges from her trip, and her call log of when she was with him. Note that you don't message guys you just blue balled, you go silent on term because you blew them off. You do hever say sweet nothing's to the guy you just had the romp with.

And key log the computers in the house. You might also want to take away her cell phone and give her a new dumb basic phone.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

gkarats said:


> Nope not in "RugSweep Land". Just not in front of the computer all day. I have all the emails she thought were erased. I know everything. That they met online from an ad she posted. I know about every conversation they had from the day he replied. That she didn't use her real name nor did he and did not give out personal info such as phone #s etc. that both stressed the importance of not wanting ruin their current marriages. I read every one of them. I have a complete picture of how it progressed up until they met.
> 
> I'm not an idiot but the evidence is overwhelming. Do I love her, yes. Is that blinding me? I don't believe so. I have questions and decisions to make. My trust is gone. Can I trust her again? Only time will tell. But at this point I am not in any position to make a decision either way. I'm angry, hurt, upset, sick. I owe it to myself, my son to wait till I am in a more rational mind to decide wether this marriage is worth trying to save.
> 
> *She on the other hand is willing to do anything* to prove to me that she loves me and she will not let me go she says.
> 
> Time will tell. I will be sure to keep you posted on any further updates.


Have her give you this scumbag's contact information because his wife needs to know. If she balks or refuses, she's protecting the OM still and you have your answer.

Also you need to consider something. This wasn't a situation where a dissatisfied wife, "accidentally" got caught up in a situation that 'just happened'. Like she was out dancing and drinking and let down boundaries and got caught up with a guy.

YOUR WIFE POSTED AN AD. Think about that. Her deceptions and betrayals were PREMEDITATED. She actively lived with you and PLANNED this. Even if I was a guy who'd be open to R if my wife ever cheated, THIS would be a deal breaker.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Gabriel said:


> Am I the only one that thinks it makes no sense that the wife would actually announce she got a Brazilian to her H, before the planned encounter with the AP?
> 
> :scratchhead::scratchhead:
> 
> Hey OP, care to post again? Where'd you go....


It's just another premeditated way for the WW to cover her tracks. She makes it seem like a "random" situation that she wanted to try. If she didn't say anything it would have been a BIGGER red flag.

His wife is stupid on the obvious stuff, but she's INCREDIBLY deceptive.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Gabriel said:


> Next time she says, "I'm not letting you go." Tell her, "Honey, that's really not up to you."


Or, "You already did when toy cheated on me."


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

gkarats said:


> *Nope not in "RugSweep Land". Just not in front of the computer all day.* I have all the updates.


Really. Then you do realize that there is a very good chance that your wife had sex during the below...

Quoted from your first post;



gkarats said:


> Well last Friday she drops 2 things on me one that *she had to go out of town for a work conference* (not completely unusal as she does travel sometimes for work) and second that *she had went out and gotten a brazilian*. The latter set me back as she has never ever done that. Red flag. I spent the weekend as normal, she was to be leaving Wednesday, dropped a few questions about the trip. everything seemed normal and I definitely was not fully suspicious at this point. Wednesday rolls around and she leaves. *I did not recieve a call from her that night, normally I would.* I did not call her, eventhough I wanted to, I am not the jelous type, I did not want to be that guy, so I went to bed.
> 
> Well I woke up Thursday morning early and concerned. I had a sickening feeling that I could not shake so I tried to see if I could locate her iphone (first time I ever did that) *and bang it pinged her in a different city and different hotel.* I print screened her location. I texted her telling I needed to talk. She called me back and stuck with her story that she was at a conference in a different city then she actually was. She also said that she might be heading back today (was suppose to be gone til saturday). I left it at that. Shortly later she texted she was on her way home.
> 
> When I confronted her when she returned she told me *she went to meet someone* but nothing happened, she couldn't *do it*. *She met this guy online they spent a month emailing back and forth* (I read them all). The emails were a fantasy she said.


Because if you say you don't think that something physical could have happened by now, you're lying to yourself.

Don't be this guy. It never turns out well for him...


----------



## Acabado

gkarats said:


> That they met online from an ad she posted. I know about every conversation they had from the day he replied. That she didn't use her real name nor did he and did not give out personal info such as phone #s etc. that both stressed the importance of not wanting ruin their current marriages. I read every one of them. I have a complete picture of how it progressed up until they met.


So this wasn't a "just happened", slippery slope thing, she already had it justified in her mind, planned and went for it, she put the ad to get strange d1ck. I assume it was an "affair site". She was calculating at starting this affair with a porpouse.
This kind of affair makes you doubt your entire story, maybe she's a serial cheater and you caught her by chance, because she was lazy and left the clues. She never intended to leave the marriage but to eat cake.

She must explain what made acceptable this in her mind. What was going on in her mind to make this decision.
And with this kind of cheater you'll have a hard time believing she's "changed". I'm sorry man.


ETA
Sorry I skipped others reponses. Everyone already covered this.


----------



## LostViking

I can't believe some of the things I'm reading. I thought you people were mostly veterans at this stuff. 

So we are supposed to give this woman the benefit of the doubt? Why?

She advertised herself like a piece of meat. Spent hundreds to primp and doll herself up. Paid a good $350 to $500 on a round trip ticket to another city, another $125 a night for a hotel, all so she could back down at the last minute?

Bullshyte. 

She had sex with the OM. Everywhere and every way. And if not intercourse then everything but.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## workindad

Op very sorry to learn of your latest findings. She does not sound like a first time cheater. Unfortunately she sounds experienced. 

Also her last message to OM does not sound like a no contact message. It sounds more like a heads up that she was busted. 

Have you contacted OM's wife? Do so. 

Also insist on std tests. 

Good luck. You have much to consider before you make a decision. Nothing at all wrong with that. But you can still take some actions while working out what you want. Protect your health. Also you now know the depth and scope of your wife's deception. You know how good she is at lying and covering her tracks. Pay attention to her actions. The right words are nice but she has serious credibility issues so measure her words against her actions. Your marriage may be salvageable but you must act.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Garry2012

gkarats said:


> from the emails I recovered they were in different hotels. He emailed her the morning after as well.
> 
> I don't believe they have met before, just from the emails I read, but again I don't know what to believe anymore.
> 
> Why if I have exposed this would she want to stay with me, if she truely was going to continue meeting this guy? I can't explain that rationally.
> 
> He is married and older, and discretion was of importance to him (got that from the emails as well)


My advice: dont trust anything anymore--the woman you have known for many years may have left the building. Once you confront she will just hide...i agree with all the posters..depending on the level of involvment with OM. Once/if she askes for "space" your out, he is in. 

See if she will go to a councelor--they may be able to help her see what she is doing and why, and reverse/help.


----------



## bfree

Shaggy said:


> Was the ad on AM or Craig's list?
> 
> Who puts out an add to find a lover? Really? Certainly not a first time cheater.
> 
> You sir need to schedule a polygraph and you need to be ready to uncover some serious nasty discoveries because there is so much she has not told you.
> 
> Her warning to him and how direct she was speaks volumes about her experience cheating and her true loyalty. She immediate sought to warn him about being compromised and to warn him about not using that account to contact her,
> 
> Get that polygraph.
> 
> At the sometime, get all her passwords and accounts
> 
> Get the credit card charges from her trip, and her call log of when she was with him. Note that you don't message guys you just blue balled, you go silent on term because you blew them off. You do hever say sweet nothing's to the guy you just had the romp with.
> 
> And key log the computers in the house. You might also want to take away her cell phone and give her a new dumb basic phone.


I would bet it was AM. The OP's wife sought out this affair. There is absolutely no doubt they had sex. Probably multiple times and spent the entire night together. Heck she didn't even bother to call him. She was too busy that night apparently.


----------



## Cubby

bfree said:


> Heck she didn't even bother to call him.


If, like she claims, she decided at the last minute she couldn't go through with it, I would think she'd call her him right away, since she supposedly had those feelings of remorse.


----------



## Garry2012

gkarats said:


> Thanks for all the input everyone. I can tell there are a lot of angry and hurt people on this site. Perhaps this isn't exactly what I needed to hear but some of it rings true. I am a calm person in nature and tend to take life as it comes rather than worry and stress. I know now more than ever that I need to worry about me.
> 
> And I agree with everyone that the last email is unthinkable.


The advice on this site seem like it is coming from hurt angry people-maybe some. I took it like this as well, and was shocked by the abrupt chagnes they watned me to make and how they wanted me to "attack" my sweet loving wife. 

After 8 months of going through the process, i have come to realize that its not anger or pain, but just good blunt "outside perspective" advice. It is ALOT easier to see the truth from the outside than it is when you are the one going through it. You wife, most likely like mine, has changed. She may not be the sweet loving wife you have held so dearly. You HAVE to accept that you are now in a battle with someone who may or maynot be the same person you have known. By taking the serious steps that have been stated here-polygraph, filing divorce, etc. you can see just how far she is gone...if she fights it, she may be willing to come back, if not, she is gone. If you dont take the aggressive steps, you can "be together", but only so she can live her wild life with OM and have you on the side in case things dont work out. If you can live happily while she uses you as a safety net for her, than i guess that is your decision...i couldnt do it and wouldnt do it.


----------



## JCD

LostViking said:


> I can't believe some of the things I'm reading. I thought you people were mostly veterans at this stuff.
> 
> So we are supposed to give this woman the benefit of the doubt? Why?
> 
> She advertised herself like a piece of meat. Spent hundreds to primp and doll herself up. Paid a good $350 to $500 on a round trip ticket to another city, another $125 a night for a hotel, all so she could back down at the last minute?
> 
> Bullshyte.
> 
> She had sex with the OM. Everywhere and every way. And if not intercourse then everything but.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Calm yourself.

We had to make these estimations about her character before we heard she posted an ad for a sex partner.

I have gone out and started to do bad things...only to chicken out at the last minute, up to and including preparations. But conscience or fear stopped me from finally 'doing the deed'. So it isn't THAT much of a stretch to see a person rationalizing all kinds of things "Oh...I need to get healthy...let me lose weight...and Bob will like it. Oh...I need new clothes. This will look great and reignite my sexuality...oh...and Bob might like it. I haven't done anything for the hubby lately...let me get a Brazilian...oh...why not right before my trip?" Humans are into self deception.

HOWEVER...both the message and the ad posting make me conclude you are probably right.


----------



## weightlifter

Late on this thread.

>She did a horrible thing, unthinkable, she has put me in a place I would like to run and hide from. She has changed me as a person. She has stolen my sacred trust I had with her. and that is where the problem lies. She can assure me that she loves me, she can tell me our marriage will be better now (after some time), that both our needs and desires will finally be fulfilled, that she never wanted anyone else, and on and on. but all of that is nothing if I can't believe her and can't trust her again.<

I can answer this one vividly. NO you will NEVER EVER get 100% trust back. What my wife did PALES compared to yours and I will never get there! Short version. Mar 2 2013 758AM I go on her comp to get weather. Email is up and there is an email from an ex subject "are mareidge" (our marriage) AYFKM. Email spooning an ex. She picks a half literate hillbilly. Do I trust her more than 3 months ago? Yes. Will it ever be 100%. Hell no. 
When she emails. I wonder
When she goes out. I wonder
sigh

Anyway I'm Mr not nice and let me lay it out for you. I am a cheating wife buster with about 15 under my belt where I was heavily involved. My advice is neither pretty nor nice. IT IS ACCURATE.

Steel yourself. Probablility of sex is 98%. Her email was her leading him in "their story" she is underground now here is how you defeat her. I am resident cheating wife buster. Ignore me and it will be much much worse.

Dude this is ugly AND YOU ARE SETTING YOURSELF UP

YOU NEED TO PLAY CLUELESS HUSBAND!!! Pretend you trust her and forgive. YOU ARE ALSO NOW UNDERGROUND!

1) Go to Best Buy. Buy two SONY ICDPX312 Voice activated recorders. Then go to Walmart. Buy heavy duty velcro. 
Set sensitivity to very high and bit rate to at least 44K. TURN OFF THE BEEP! or cut the wires to the speaker. You download it as an MP3 file.
BUY LITHIUM BATTERIES 
Attach the HD velcro to one of the vars and place the other end UP INSIDE her car seat. Put var on and ATTACH firmly and up off the floor so you cant see it.
Hide the second one somewhere where she talks when you are not around. HIDE IT WELL!!!
2) Keylog the comp. Web watcher has been used successfully by some here
3) Probably too late but semen test the panties. Amazon sells them. They are called check mate. Women rarely bring extra panties so they get crusties.
4) Watch for suspicious behavior like showering right after "going to the store" or "girls night out" or "seeing a friend" Take her panties then and replace them with an identical decoy set on the floor where she left them.
5) Do the polygraph. You get 2 or 3 yes or no questions. The way around it is to make a questionaire with all the questions you desire. Have her fill it out in ink. Tell her question 1 is all about the truth in her answers. She is allowed to change the answer up until she exits the car at the polygraph place. Then all answers are locked. Once there question 1 is. Your husband gave you a list of questions about your affair. Are all your answers true? If she lies divorce.
NEVER tell her reconciliation is a given. EVER! She needs FEAR!
NEVER EVER tell anyone about your electronic surveilance. EVER EVER EVER. The var is an extremely powerful tool you NEVER want to give up. You "just know" or "had her followed"

"need for secrecy" leads me to believe AM. Also the fact two different cities were involved.

OH and my usual warning. If you hear another man get in the car and it sounds ANYTHING REMOTELY like kissing or sex... STOP LISTENING!!!!!!!! Hearing another man inside your wife will destroy you in ways you can not comprehend far far more than what you feel now. You are not strong enough to hear that. It will DESTROY you, as a man, your ego, your worth... gone! In that case, have a trusted friend listen for you.


----------



## Harken Banks

Garry2012 said:


> The advice on this site seem like it is coming from hurt angry people-maybe some. I took it like this as well, and was shocked by the abrupt chagnes they watned me to make and how they wanted me to "attack" my sweet loving wife.
> 
> After 8 months of going through the process, i have come to realize that its not anger or pain, but just good blunt "outside perspective" advice. It is ALOT easier to see the truth from the outside than it is when you are the one going through it. You wife, most likely like mine, has changed. She may not be the sweet loving wife you have held so dearly. You HAVE to accept that you are now in a battle with someone who may or maynot be the same person you have known. By taking the serious steps that have been stated here-polygraph, filing divorce, etc. you can see just how far she is gone...if she fights it, she may be willing to come back, if not, she is gone. If you dont take the aggressive steps, you can "be together", but only so she can live her wild life with OM and have you on the side in case things dont work out. If you can live happily while she uses you as a safety net for her, than i guess that is your decision...i couldnt do it and wouldnt do it.


This is a good post. A note I would add is that it may not be so much that she is not the person you knew, but that she is not the person you thought you knew. Which is probably the case in every relationship. And whose fault is that? We project. We want the world as we want it, not always as it is.


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## Tony55

weightlifter said:


> OH and my usual warning. If you hear another man get in the car and it sounds ANYTHING REMOTELY like kissing or sex... STOP LISTENING!!!!!!!! Hearing another man inside your wife will destroy you in ways you can not comprehend far far more than what you feel now. You are not strong enough to hear that. It will DESTROY you, as a man, your ego, your worth... gone! In that case, have a trusted friend listen for you.


He's right about this, kissing is enough, nothing else needs to be heard; who cares about anything after kissing anyway, once she's kissing another man she isn't yours anymore, she's his.

T


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## weightlifter

I have two seen examples where husband listened. 

One he told his story how much more crushing it was to not only know another man had been inside her, but to hear a recording of it. The other was one of my early on cases where he listened. he was posting as he listened. You could hear him dying inside just from his posts far far worse than his previous posts.

OP DONT Listen if you start to hear kissing or foreplay. Hear another man stop and use a trusted friend or failing that I have done it for 3 men. I also do clean up of recordings. It will RUIN you!


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## Garry2012

weightlifter said:


> I have two seen examples where husband listened.
> 
> One he told his story how much more crushing it was to not only know another man had been inside her, but to hear a recording of it. The other was one of my early on cases where he listened. he was posting as he listened. You could hear him dying inside just from his posts far far worse than his previous posts.
> 
> OP DONT Listen if you start to hear kissing or foreplay. Hear another man stop and use a trusted friend or failing that I have done it for 3 men. I also do clean up of recordings. It will RUIN you!


I dont doubt this...i heard my Ex just talking to the OM, and not even about physical stuff, but enough to haunt me to this day...i may never get those words out of my head....cant imagine hearing physical action.


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## weightlifter

Garry2012 said:


> I dont doubt this...i heard my Ex just talking to the OM, and not even about physical stuff, but enough to haunt me to this day...i may never get those words out of my head....cant imagine hearing physical action.


Hence my warning. No man is strong enough to hear it.


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## happyman64

GKarats

I liked your last post.

You have seen her email trail and you now know how her infidelity came about.

Save that information if you have not already in a safe, secure place.

Maybe your wife is telling you the truth, maybe not. But you are right. You cannot trust her.

Let me make two suggestions to you.

A. Polygraph her. Do not let her know about this in advance. Make the appt. Let her think you are going out together. Then tell her right before you leave together.

Many spouses will spill their guts when they find out where they are going.

Keep the appt. to get the truth no matter how accurate or inaccurate a polygraph may be.

B. Take your time. Get all the facts. Get access to all of her accounts. But more importantly take a few hours and read a few of the posters on your thread stories.

You will find enlightening as well as educational.

Sorry you are here but I think you can get to the bottom of this mess and make a good decision for yourself, son and marriage.

HM64


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## ThePheonix

My guess from her actions, including her email followup to her bf that she's been made, leads me to think she slept with him. Her statement that she couldn't go through carries considerable less weight than her actions. Many of us that think this could be wrong. Nevertheless, the only way to give credence to her statement and end the suspicion is a polygraph. 
If GK is satisfied with her statement, or if he doesn't want to push it, its none of my business. But if he goes that route, he'll most likely always wonder.


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## Gabriel

JCD said:


> Calm yourself.
> 
> We had to make these estimations about her character before we heard she posted an ad for a sex partner.
> 
> I have gone out and started to do bad things...only to chicken out at the last minute, up to and including preparations. But conscience or fear stopped me from finally 'doing the deed'. So it isn't THAT much of a stretch to see a person rationalizing all kinds of things "Oh...I need to get healthy...let me lose weight...and Bob will like it. Oh...I need new clothes. This will look great and reignite my sexuality...oh...and Bob might like it. I haven't done anything for the hubby lately...let me get a Brazilian...oh...why not right before my trip?" Humans are into self deception.
> 
> HOWEVER...both the message and the ad posting make me conclude you are probably right.


Perfect. I agree with all of this. Still a slight chance she chickened out. But probably not given she put an ad out.


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## Garry2012

To me, if she has gone through all this effort to begin with, not a good sign. IF she chickened out this time, she may not next time...or maybe just needs a shot of liquid encouragement. She isnt far off doing it..so she has already rationalized it, come to terms with it, planned it, prepared for it, and 3/4 completed it (minimum). Mute point to me whether she completed it...she has gone through alot of motions already to show you she is capable.


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## Gabriel

Cubby said:


> If, like she claims, she decided at the last minute she couldn't go through with it, I would think she'd call her him right away, since she supposedly had those feelings of remorse.


She could simply say that it was too late at night when she said "stop" and wanted to wait until morning to call.


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## LostCPA

weightlifter said:


> I have two seen examples where husband listened.
> 
> One he told his story how much more crushing it was to not only know another man had been inside her, but to hear a recording of it. The other was one of my early on cases where he listened. he was posting as he listened. You could hear him dying inside just from his posts far far worse than his previous posts.
> 
> OP DONT Listen if you start to hear kissing or foreplay. Hear another man stop and use a trusted friend or failing that I have done it for 3 men. I also do clean up of recordings. It will RUIN you!


I can attest to this. I actually saw my WW and OM on a camera I had hidden. I knew then that divorce was the only option because that image is seared into my brain forever. Even now, when I see her at kid’s activities I still flash back to that image. It’s one thing to hear them tell you what they did, but seeing it on video takes it to a whole new level. I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone.

This is why I believe it is much harder to recover the marriage when the BS knows all of the dirty details. Not impossible, but much harder. Unfortunately for most BS’s, the snooping required to get to the real truth and to keep your WS honest, brings you into contact with far too many details for you to ever really get over them. In fact, I highly recommend that if infidelity is a definite deal breaker for you that you get as little detail as possible about you WS’s affair to prevent any further long term damage to your mental health.


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## ArmyofJuan

gkarats said:


> I have all the emails she thought were erased. I know everything. That they met online from an ad she posted. I know about every conversation they had from the day he replied. That she didn't use her real name nor did he and did not give out personal info such as phone #s etc. that both stressed the importance of not wanting ruin their current marriages. I read every one of them. I have a complete picture of how it progressed up until they met.


Sounds like she has done this before. You may only know the tip of the iceberg with her.


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## doubletrouble

weightlifter -- I remember that posting where the guy heard his wife getting it on with the OM. It was horrifying to read. 

It's bad enough to read emails where they reminisce about having sex. I read one where the OM was talking about their (business) trip to Hawaii, and the two of them lying naked in bed, the balcony door open and the fresh sea breeze coming in. The sexual tension in that bar in Manila -- even kept the Filipinas at bay. That lounge in Japan. Two days of deep conversation in Dubai... it goes on and on. Oh and he mentioned Pirate Day to her once and said "shiver me timbers" and she replied "I'll shiver your timber" ---- UGH. That's just what I am willing to write down.

So yeah that's just words on a screen. I couldn't handle audio or video. I can barely handle this other sh!t.


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## ThePheonix

I've always questioned why folks want to know all the details. Like the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for". Suffice it to say it doesn't take an extraordinary imagination to figure out what folks do in bed together. The physical part is not going to be sexual intercourse-lite.


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## LostViking

When two people go through all the trouble and expense of primping, buying clothes, buying plane tickets, scheduling rendezvous, it is not going to be for the usual flip-flop pancake sex. No. It's going to be full on XXX , nasty, drywall cracking sex: the kind they are most likely too scared to ask their spouses for.


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## weightlifter

doubletrouble said:


> weightlifter -- I remember that posting where the guy heard his wife getting it on with the OM. It was horrifying to read.
> 
> It's bad enough to read emails where they reminisce about having sex. I read one where the OM was talking about their (business) trip to Hawaii, and the two of them lying naked in bed, the balcony door open and the fresh sea breeze coming in. The sexual tension in that bar in Manila -- even kept the Filipinas at bay. That lounge in Japan. Two days of deep conversation in Dubai... it goes on and on. Oh and he mentioned Pirate Day to her once and said "shiver me timbers" and she replied "I'll shiver your timber" ---- UGH. That's just what I am willing to write down.
> 
> So yeah that's just words on a screen. I couldn't handle audio or video. I can barely handle this other sh!t.


This was one of my tragic omissions. This was when I was just starting to get really really good with VARS. At that point some of our old VAR people had disappeared. He did exactly as I said. And heard the man get in the car.

I had privately offered to help with the var but the offer was only to clean it up. I am pretty damned good with audacity. I did not know at that point about the tragic affects of hearing it live. I was thinking only she would talk on the phone. It took like 4 days only before she hooked up. He listened. I was on that night. I was refreshing on that thread. Watching a man die inside. If only I had a time machine and could go back and give my now standard warning.

For some men knowing the details derails "did they do this" "Did they do that" thoughts they can not get out of their heads. Simple verbal knowledge is enough to often derail those thoughts. They don't need video or audio.

BTW anyone know how to get my picture to display? It will be... really really appropriate for me.


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## calmwinds

weightlifter said:


> I have two seen examples where husband listened.
> 
> One he told his story how much more crushing it was to not only know another man had been inside her, but to hear a recording of it. The other was one of my early on cases where he listened. he was posting as he listened. You could hear him dying inside just from his posts far far worse than his previous posts.
> 
> OP DONT Listen if you start to hear kissing or foreplay. Hear another man stop and use a trusted friend or failing that I have done it for 3 men. I also do clean up of recordings. It will RUIN you!


On my Dday, I listened to a 13 minute "butt call" from my WHs phone. They weren't having sex but I listened to him talking to her the way that had always been reserved for me, listening to her call him "baby" and just talking. My mind still replays their ENTIRE insignificant conversation over a year later. He is doing all the heavy lifting, is remorseful, and accountable to a fault. If I had actually heard them in the middle of having sex, I can tell you I probably wouldn't still be residing on this planet. I can be asleep and hear this conversation and wake up full of anxiety and hatred. Don't listen.


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