# Married, in love, but not with my wife



## thegenericjournal

I'm going to try to keep this as succinct as possible.

I'm married, and have been for nearly 13 years. We have one 6 year old son. We got married very young, for many of the wrong reasons. But we made it work.

About 8 months ago, I met an amazing woman. We were on vacation (me with my wife, her with her husband) and it so happens we live an hour apart. We spent only 5 or 6 hours in each other's company, but it kick started a relationship.

Fast forward to now. We've been seeing each other. We are in love. Both of our marriages are quite platonic, but what we have is deep, passionate. We are kindred spirits. Quite literally twins. The similarities between us are quite uncanny. I've only known her for a few months, but it feels like I've known her forever. We haven't had sex. We've kissed, hugged and just lay together, listening to each other breath. We are crazy about each other.

We've talked about if/how/when we leave our spouses and see if we could make "us" work. She also has a child, same age as my son. My son is the only reason I haven't left my wife yet. I know the hurt this will cause him.

I'm not looking for advice. I know most of you will tell me to let the new girl go. I'm looking for feedback.


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## Married but Happy

You have two options: fix your marriage, or end it. The first doesn't sound likely to work unless you can truly commit to that option, end the affair, and actually do love your wife and can see that it's possible to be IN love with her again. The second gives you options. And you can still be a good father if you choose option 2.


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## Starstarfish

What sort of feedback? You are having an affair. Whether or not it's gotten full contact sexual. 

How on vacation with your wife did you randomly find this woman and have such a deep conversation? Why weren't you with your wife? When are you finding the time now to sneak around with this other woman? Why aren't you at home being a father to your son? 

How do you feel about blowing up your home and possibly losing or having limited time and contact with your son for your new soul mate?


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## woundedwarrior

You can never have it both ways and it's just a matter of time before both your spouses find out and you both end up with nothing. Affairs are just distractions and never turn into anything substantial. Be careful, before you destroy two families.


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## thegenericjournal

Starstarfish, I was playing volleyball. My wife doesn't play volleyball, so she was in a hammock nearby, reading and watching the game. I met new girl when she and her husband came onto the court to join the game. After the game, we grabbed a drink at the bar and started chatting - her, her husband and I. It was perfectly innocent. After dinner, we met as couples and chatted all for the remainder of the evening. The next day, my wife and I went home.

Now, we both have the same career, and it's overlapping a little. We're also mutually involved in other extra-curricular activities where we see each other at. Aside from that, we've found a few times to grab a coffee or lunch together. Aside from that, not much.


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## WorkingOnMe

Divorcing and starting over will be best for all concerned.


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## WorkingOnMe

thegenericjournal said:


> Starstarfish, I was playing volleyball. My wife doesn't play volleyball, so she was in a hammock nearby, reading and watching the game. I met new girl when she and her husband came onto the court to join the game. After the game, we grabbed a drink at the bar and started chatting - her, her husband and I. It was perfectly innocent. After dinner, we met as couples and chatted all for the remainder of the evening. The next day, my wife and I went home.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, we both have the same career, and it's overlapping a little. We're also mutually involved in other extra-curricular activities where we see each other at. Aside from that, we've found a few times to grab a coffee or lunch together. Aside from that, not much.



And from that you're in love? LOL


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## Starstarfish

How are you just going out for coffee but also laying together cuddly listening to each other breathe?

Which extra curricular activity does that happen at?


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## thegenericjournal

woundedwarrior, is it fair to say that affairs never turn into anything substantial? This is more than what the 37,000,000 AM users were looking for. We didn't go out looking for an affair. We fell in love. We connected as friends, and before we knew it, we were in love. Simply said, right now, I'd rather spend my life with her as a eunuch than spend my life with my current wife and pretend to love her, with the sex.


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## thegenericjournal

We talk every day. We've vacationed together with our families. The cuddle time has happened at night, after work, or the extra curricular event, we'll find an hour just to "be" together. I said I was being succinct. I'm leaving out the details.


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## Starstarfish

What are you hoping to hear here? That your affair is justified because you are "really in love"? The fact you two are parading it in front of your spouses and kids is even worse. 

You two really love each other? Divorce and marry each other. And accept the consequences of that decision.


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## Dude007

thegenericjournal said:


> We talk every day. We've vacationed together with our families. The cuddle time has happened at night, after work, or the extra curricular event, we'll find an hour just to "be" together. I said I was being succinct. I'm leaving out the details.


TRAIN WRECK ALERT!!!!! Warning!!! Warning Will Robinson!!! DUDE


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## skype

You are in the land of rainbows and unicorns right now. How well do you really know this woman? You do not have to deal with her day-to-day, you do not have to make any compromises, hard decisions about finances, child-rearing, house maintenance, sexual proclivities. You have created a fantasy about her which may or may not be true.

Before you destroy 2 families, do your very best to date your wife, meet each other's needs, and consciously try to remember what attracted you in the first place. If after a period of trying, say 6 months to a year, you still feel the same way, then initiate divorce. You can leave knowing that you tried everything, and you can tell your son that the marriage grew stale and you had to be honest and end it.


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## karole

Good grief.................


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## Ol'Pal

Think back to how you and your wife were when you 1st started dating. Remember how infatuated you were with her? How you could see past any little hang up she had?


That's you all over again, just with a different woman. 

You're in the honeymoon phase with the new gal. Which can soon wear off....... You are to blinded by your infatuation for her to be open minded about your affair and possibly see it for the disaster it really is. 


Or you may have just found the true love of your life. 

Only you can determine which option is right for you. But for Christs sake, man up and either end the affair or get a divorce.


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## Dude007

karole said:


> Good grief.................


Again, its like watching a train wreck...DUDE


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## SecondTime'Round

thegenericjournal;13513970 Quite literally twins.[/QUOTE said:


> I'm "quite literally" a twin. You are not. You are just a silly man in a fog, "in love" with a silly woman in another fog.


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## ToothFairy

So she's your twin? you are in love with yourself. Get your eyes off you and put them back on the family you made and should be committed to. Or, if you really "love" her then end your marriage YESTERDAY and move on.


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## aine

Wand the fog will clear and your lives will be a train wreck


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## imtamnew

So if you get caught what is the worst that can happen.

You are in a platonic relationship with your wife, so I guess there is no emotional or physical bond. Big deal. Do whatever you want. Its fine.

Everyone wants to judge you on their moral compass. Its ok to have your own moral compass.

The only challenge is how will you face yourself everyday because you are living a lie.


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## free2beme14

Tell your wife the truth, she will be more devastated when she finds out and she will find out. I'm sure you are leaving clues everywhere you go. I have a feeling the other woman won't leave her marriage, but the choice is yours.


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## NoChoice

OP,
I shall refrain from offering advice and simply provide feedback. First feedback is to suggest you buy a dictionary and at least learn the clinical definition of love. Next feedback is that you spend the rest of your life with your wife defining and learning the subliminal definition of love.

Love is not something you slip in and out of like socks, except in the movies, where reality does not apply. You, at one point, loved your wife lest you would not have married her. So what became of that love? And what will become of this new love when time has removed those rose colored glasses? Hopefully you will be on a vacation with your new love when you meet the true love of your life number 3, then likewise 4, 5, 6, 7 and so on until you finally grow up and realize that the "love" you are chasing is not love at all but rather an immature quest for something new and exciting.

If you feel so compelled to destroy your family and hers, then at least have the maturity to explain the situation to your wife and her husband so that they can divorce you two and find true spouses to spend their lives with, perhaps even each other. It is unlikely that you will do that however because it requires more maturity than you or she have.

I sincerely hope that you one day understand what love is and do realize what it is like to stand face to face and look into the eyes of your mate and know. Know what, you may ask. If or when you feel it, you will understand. Right now you haven't a clue.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
It is such an easy trap to fall into. When you meet a new person and get a crush on them you see the good, not the bad. Your time together is brief, and usually when you are doing fun things. The illicitness of it adds a thrill. You know little about them so you fill in the gaps with your imagination. You imagine all the things you have in common. You imagine them as the perfect lover in bed because you don't know otherwise. Even if you have slept together the novelty still makes it exciting. 

Back at home you have become settled with your spouse. Life, real life, involves lots of chores and drudgery. Your sex has likely fallen into set patterns - if you haven't worked at it you find yourselves doing almost the same things over and over again.

If only there were some way to live with the new person for a month. Doing chores, shopping, laundry, cleaning the house. A month of real life, not vacation. But there is no way to do this without ending your existing marriage.


BUCKET OF ICE WATER. OK are you awake? Talk about your marriage. You say platonic: Is that because your wife doesn't want sex with you? Was she always like that? When did she change? Do you still do all the romantic things you did for her when you first got together? Is your marriage really broken?


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## SecondTime'Round

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> It is such an easy trap to fall into. When you meet a new person and get a crush on them you see the good, not the bad. Your time together is brief, and usually when you are doing fun things. The illicitness of it adds a thrill. You know little about them so you fill in the gaps with your imagination. You imagine all the things you have in common. You imagine them as the perfect lover in bed because you don't know otherwise. Even if you have slept together the novelty still makes it exciting.
> 
> Back at home you have become settled with your spouse. Life, real life, involves lots of chores and drudgery. Your sex has likely fallen into set patterns - if you haven't worked at it you find yourselves doing almost the same things over and over again.
> 
> If only there were some way to live with the new person for a month. Doing chores, shopping, laundry, cleaning the house. A month of real life, not vacation. But there is no way to do this without ending your existing marriage.
> 
> 
> BUCKET OF ICE WATER. OK are you awake? Talk about your marriage. You say platonic: Is that because your wife doesn't want sex with you? Was she always like that? When did she change? Do you still do all the romantic things you did for her when you first got together? Is your marriage really broken?


Great post!

To the original poster--your story is not at ALL unique. Every person in an affair says the same thing as you (besides the being twins part), it's almost as if you took it verbatim from Cheating for Dummies. You two are not "soul mates."


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## depressedandexhausted

Alright, I hate this. This is not love. This is a person reacting to that feeling of something new, the excitement. You know that feeling when you were young, that feeling you get when you get to first base. Well this is that same feeling it goes away. Once it goes, all you will have left is two broken homes and a ton of resentment. I am not going to sit here and bash you, I should but I wont. You are doing something wrong. To your wife and her husband. YOU, are doing something wrong. Does this register, dont you hold you wedding vows to a higher regard than just some blatant event in your past, why did you get married if some random woman with a few things in common can swipe you away from your marriage? Do the right thing, end it and move on. Come clean to your soon to be ex wife before this turns into something worse.


P.S.
Please do the right thing.


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## thegenericjournal

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> I shall refrain from offering advice and simply provide feedback. First feedback is to suggest you buy a dictionary and at least learn the clinical definition of love. Next feedback is that you spend the rest of your life with your wife defining and learning the subliminal definition of love.
> 
> Love is not something you slip in and out of like socks, except in the movies, where reality does not apply. You, at one point, loved your wife lest you would not have married her. So what became of that love? And what will become of this new love when time has removed those rose colored glasses? Hopefully you will be on a vacation with your new love when you meet the true love of your life number 3, then likewise 4, 5, 6, 7 and so on until you finally grow up and realize that the "love" you are chasing is not love at all but rather an immature quest for something new and exciting.
> 
> If you feel so compelled to destroy your family and hers, then at least have the maturity to explain the situation to your wife and her husband so that they can divorce you two and find true spouses to spend their lives with, perhaps even each other. It is unlikely that you will do that however because it requires more maturity than you or she have.
> 
> I sincerely hope that you one day understand what love is and do realize what it is like to stand face to face and look into the eyes of your mate and know. Know what, you may ask. If or when you feel it, you will understand. Right now you haven't a clue.


OK, so firstly, thank you for taking so much time to give me your feedback. Everyone, I do appreciate your collective take on this. 

I know, I'm not unique. I know that the love could be rainbows and unicorns. I also know that there will be bad things in the new relationship that will require work. Remember, I've been married for 13 years. I know what it takes to make things work. 

The twins part - that's not imagined. The similarities between the two of us are not imagined. They are real. The list is long, and to ensure our anonymity, I won't get into it. Put it this way: if we were both single, our friends would be saying, "yes, it makes sense that you two get together...you have SO much in common"

Next, I want to reiterate that I didn't go looking for an affair. We met, we became friends with no illicit intentions at all, and now we're in love. We've talked about all of the things you all have mentioned. Maybe we're a page ripped from the "Cheating for Dummies" book, but we've tried not to love. We've tried to be just friends. We've tried to be objective. It doesn't work. And it's not about the thrill either. I wish there was no "thrill". I'm not about the thrill. I'm about reality. And the reality is that I'm in love with a woman I can't be with. It's like a bad dream at this point.

And lastly, I know what love is. I was in love once, well before I married my wife. And I know that love is not something that comes and goes passively. It may come passively, which is the infatuation you speak of. Real love works hard when the green grass turns brown. It understands and appreciates even the things that drive you nuts about the other person. I get all of that. But, at this point, my biggest concern is my son. 

How do I leave his mother and minimize his hurt? If I knew I could do this and he still be happy, I'd leave yesterday. My motives are love, but I haven't lost touch with reality. And, for the record, neither has she.


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## Yeswecan

thegenericjournal said:


> I'm going to try to keep this as succinct as possible.
> 
> I'm married, and have been for nearly 13 years. We have one 6 year old son. We got married very young, for many of the wrong reasons. But we made it work.
> 
> About 8 months ago, I met an amazing woman. We were on vacation (me with my wife, her with her husband) and it so happens we live an hour apart. We spent only 5 or 6 hours in each other's company, but it kick started a relationship.
> 
> Fast forward to now. We've been seeing each other. We are in love. Both of our marriages are quite platonic, but what we have is deep, passionate. We are kindred spirits. Quite literally twins. The similarities between us are quite uncanny. I've only known her for a few months, but it feels like I've known her forever. We haven't had sex. We've kissed, hugged and just lay together, listening to each other breath. We are crazy about each other.
> 
> We've talked about if/how/when we leave our spouses and see if we could make "us" work. She also has a child, same age as my son. My son is the only reason I haven't left my wife yet. I know the hurt this will cause him.
> 
> I'm not looking for advice. I know most of you will tell me to let the new girl go. I'm looking for feedback.


You sound like you are in fantasy land. Grow up. Get a set. 



> But we made it work.


 No you didn't. You are failing your W and kid.


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## woundedwarrior

thegenericjournal said:


> OK, so firstly, thank you for taking so much time to give me your feedback. Everyone, I do appreciate your collective take on this.
> 
> I know, I'm not unique. I know that the love could be rainbows and unicorns. I also know that there will be bad things in the new relationship that will require work. Remember, I've been married for 13 years. I know what it takes to make things work.


Apparently you don't know, or you wouldn't be in an affair. Things didn't work and the fact that you were emotionally "able" to fall "in love" with someone else, without trying or planning, proves that you know longer love your wife.

You only have two real world choices- Either hurt your wife & son by divorcing or give up your temporary fantasy and refocus all your efforts on your marriage & family. There is no door #3.


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## thegenericjournal

We MADE it work. Past tense.

You know, I know I'm not worthy of any awards in all of this. I get that. I know I'm failing my wife and kids. I get that. I wasn't looking for judgment. I know exactly that what I'm doing is not morally right. I also wasn't looking for vindication or absolution here. I was looking for unbiased feedback. However, some feel the need to judge, condemn and name-call. Saying things like I'm in "fantasy land" and to "grow a set". In fact, you don't know enough details to be able to say those things. This is the first time I've ever posted to any forum anywhere, and I'm not sure I will ever post again. 

One thing I'll have you all know - my wife, her friends, her family, my friends, my family have all met her because we were friends first. MANY have said that if we had met before we were married, we'd have made a "great team". In fact, my wife said to me, on the night we met this other couple, that it's a "good thing we're married, or I know I wouldn't have a chance...you two are like two peas in a pod". 

So maybe I'm in fantasy land. Or maybe, just maybe, this is the real deal. And it's not about sex. One of her friends suggested we have a sex affair. Just good sex. We both laughed at her - what a ridiculous notion! This is SO much more than sex. Go ahead. Judge that. Tell me I'm dreaming in rainbows and unicorns. Maybe I am, but until I know that I am, I can't let this go. I can't let her go. Not when there's the possibility that it's not rainbows and unicorns.


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## sapientia

skype said:


> You are in the land of rainbows and unicorns right now.


Yep. The grass is always greener and EVERY affair partner says "but *we're* different!".

Except you aren't and what happens next is textbook... literally. Professionals and those who have gone before can tell you your future in excruciating detail except right now you won't hear it. 

Nothing more to say unless you find the self-control to escape the fog of those brain chemicals. That's all this is, btw. You are a drug addict right now.


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## Dude007

thegenericjournal said:


> We MADE it work. Past tense.
> 
> You know, I know I'm not worthy of any awards in all of this. I get that. I know I'm failing my wife and kids. I get that. I wasn't looking for judgment. I know exactly that what I'm doing is not morally right. I also wasn't looking for vindication or absolution here. I was looking for unbiased feedback. However, some feel the need to judge, condemn and name-call. Saying things like I'm in "fantasy land" and to "grow a set". In fact, you don't know enough details to be able to say those things. This is the first time I've ever posted to any forum anywhere, and I'm not sure I will ever post again.
> 
> One thing I'll have you all know - my wife, her friends, her family, my friends, my family have all met her because we were friends first. MANY have said that if we had met before we were married, we'd have made a "great team". In fact, my wife said to me, on the night we met this other couple, that it's a "good thing we're married, or I know I wouldn't have a chance...you two are like two peas in a pod".
> 
> So maybe I'm in fantasy land. Or maybe, just maybe, this is the real deal. And it's not about sex. One of her friends suggested we have a sex affair. Just good sex. We both laughed at her - what a ridiculous notion! This is SO much more than sex. Go ahead. Judge that. Tell me I'm dreaming in rainbows and unicorns. Maybe I am, but until I know that I am, I can't let this go. I can't let her go. Not when there's the possibility that it's not rainbows and unicorns.


Go ahead and jump off the cliff then dude, I think its totally worth it./sarc off Now you have got someone to blame when you attempt suicide a year from now.


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## sapientia

thegenericjournal said:


> Tell me I'm dreaming in rainbows and unicorns. Maybe I am, but until I know that I am, I can't let this go. I can't let her go. Not when there's the possibility that it's not rainbows and unicorns.


It's not. If it was, the two of you would find the decency to come to each other clean, instead of what you are currently doing.

If you want to do this with integrity, you both need to agree to stop seeing each other until your respective divorces are complete. Then pick up where you left off. Your adult children will respect and forgive you this, by the way, but not how you are conducting yourselves now.

But you won't because you are both codependent drug addicts. Right now you are on a high, but when one of you starts to crash, this is when the devastation and lack of integrity will get real. Chances are bleak that both of your spouses will forgive you, so the damage to your families is already done. All you can do now is try to recover some integrity.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I have been very tempted in the past. The reason was simple - my wife stopped sleeping with me and I couldn't get her to understand that sex was important. Once she (somewhat) fixed that, my interest in other women dropped dramatically. 

Dear OP - please tell us what is wrong with your marriage. I think it is important that you understand that before you leave it. Maybe it can be fixed, maybe not - but you need to think about it.


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## SecondTime'Round

thegenericjournal said:


> *How do I leave his mother and minimize his hurt? *If I knew I could do this and he still be happy, I'd leave yesterday. My motives are love, but I haven't lost touch with reality. And, for the record, neither has she.


You can't. You're wrecking his home and destroying his security.

I hope your wife takes you for everything you have.


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## SecondTime'Round

thegenericjournal said:


> Put it this way: if we were both single, our friends would be saying, "yes, it makes sense that you two get together...you have SO much in common"
> 
> Next, I want to reiterate that I didn't go looking for an affair.


So what, and so what?


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## woundedwarrior

I don't mean to offend, judge or name call, that's not me. I just don't see you getting a happy ending out of this? I guess the easiest way for me to make my point is this. Suppose the situation was reversed and your wife was doing what you are doing, wouldn't you be destroyed? There is too much emphasis on sex concerning affairs, you can have full blown ones without even a kiss. It is giving yourself emotionally to someone else, which you have. Maybe it's real, maybe it's not, you are right, we have no idea what is really going on with you two, all we know is you're being very dishonest with your wife.

In general, this forum posters feel very strongly against infidelity, because like me, we've been burned by it and you seldom fully recover from it. I'm not really sure what kind of feedback you were wanting?


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## Yeswecan

thegenericjournal said:


> We MADE it work. Past tense.
> 
> You know, I know I'm not worthy of any awards in all of this. I get that. I know I'm failing my wife and kids. I get that. I wasn't looking for judgment. I know exactly that what I'm doing is not morally right. I also wasn't looking for vindication or absolution here. I was looking for unbiased feedback. However, some feel the need to judge, condemn and name-call. Saying things like I'm in "fantasy land" and to "grow a set". In fact, you don't know enough details to be able to say those things. This is the first time I've ever posted to any forum anywhere, and I'm not sure I will ever post again. *What kind of feedback are you looking for then?*
> 
> One thing I'll have you all know - my wife, her friends, her family, my friends, my family have all met her because we were friends first. MANY have said that if we had met before we were married, we'd have made a "great team". In fact, my wife said to me, on the night we met this other couple, that it's a "good thing we're married, or I know I wouldn't have a chance...you two are like two peas in a pod". *That makes it all better now. See if it makes it all better for your W. Let us know.*
> 
> So maybe I'm in fantasy land. Or maybe, just maybe, this is the real deal. No it is not. Fog talking. And it's not about sex. Sure. Not yet but it is a part of the grand scheme. One of her friends suggested we have a sex affair. Just good sex. We both laughed at her - what a ridiculous notion! This is SO much more than sex. Sure..go on and believe it. Go ahead. Judge that. Tell me I'm dreaming in rainbows and unicorns. Maybe I am, but until I know that I am, I can't let this go. I can't let her go. Not when there's the possibility that it's not rainbows and unicorns.


Good luck...you are going to need it. And yes, grow a set. Tell your W.

I forgot to add, when you get your set, tell the OW husband. I'm certain he will be thrilled that you have found your twin and soul mate. 

Sheesh.....


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## NoChoice

thegenericjournal said:


> We MADE it work. Past tense.
> 
> You know, I know I'm not worthy of any awards in all of this. I get that. I know I'm failing my wife and kids. I get that. I wasn't looking for judgment. I know exactly that what I'm doing is not morally right. I also wasn't looking for vindication or absolution here. I was looking for unbiased feedback. However, some feel the need to judge, condemn and name-call. Saying things like I'm in "fantasy land" and to "grow a set". In fact, you don't know enough details to be able to say those things. This is the first time I've ever posted to any forum anywhere, and I'm not sure I will ever post again.
> 
> One thing I'll have you all know - my wife, her friends, her family, my friends, my family have all met her because we were friends first. MANY have said that if we had met before we were married, we'd have made a "great team". In fact, my wife said to me, on the night we met this other couple, that it's a "good thing we're married, or I know I wouldn't have a chance...you two are like two peas in a pod".
> 
> So maybe I'm in fantasy land. Or maybe, just maybe, this is the real deal. And it's not about sex. One of her friends suggested we have a sex affair. Just good sex. We both laughed at her - what a ridiculous notion! This is SO much more than sex. Go ahead. Judge that. Tell me I'm dreaming in rainbows and unicorns. * Maybe I am, but until I know that I am, I can't let this go. I can't let her go.* Not when there's the possibility that it's not rainbows and unicorns.


But your letting your family go on the chance it might be?


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## thegenericjournal

OK. So say I decide to end this and try to make a go of round two with my wife. Do I completely break contact with the other woman? She was a friend before I loved her. Could we mutually move into the friend zone now? Sure, we will hurt, because we're denying ourselves, but that minimizes the hurt to others. But after that, can we be friends?


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## sapientia

NoChoice said:


> But your letting your family go on the chance it might be?


He's already let his family go. It's highly unlikely both respective spouses will forgive them, so the damage is done. 

@ Gus - He knows he's a douche. He doesn't care. He's in the fog.

The only thing he might be able to do is find the self-control to put his affair on hold. It's the only loving thing he can do at this point, both for his own family and his supposed "love twin".

He thinks his affair partner is the answer to his prayers. He doesn't know enough of life that this is really a test.

_The gods' most savage curses come upon us as answers to our own prayers._


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## sapientia

thegenericjournal said:


> OK. So say I decide to end this and try to make a go of round two with my wife. Do I completely break contact with the other woman? She was a friend before I loved her. Could we mutually move into the friend zone now? Sure, we will hurt, because we're denying ourselves, but that minimizes the hurt to others. But after that, can we be friends?


No, all the data says that if you are ending the affair, the rule is no contact and full disclosure to your wife for any chance of success. The wrong is yours and, for R, your wife calls ALL the shots. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.


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## Yeswecan

sapientia said:


> He's already let his family go. It's highly unlikely both respective spouses will forgive them, so the damage is done. He knows he's a douche. He doesn't care. He's in the fog.
> 
> The only thing he might be able to do is find the self-control to put his affair on hold. It's the only loving thing he can do at this point, both for his own family and his supposed "love twin".
> 
> He thinks his affair partner is the answer to his prayers. He doesn't know enough of life that this is really a test.
> 
> _The gods' most savage curses come upon us as answers to our own prayers._


He is sorely mistaken if he believes infidelity is God's answer to his prayers.


----------



## tech-novelist

thegenericjournal said:


> OK. So say I decide to end this and try to make a go of round two with my wife. Do I completely break contact with the other woman? She was a friend before I loved her. Could we mutually move into the friend zone now? Sure, we will hurt, because we're denying ourselves, but that minimizes the hurt to others. But after that, can we be friends?


No, you cannot have any further contact in that case. If you remain in contact it will just prolong the chemical dependency, which is what you are feeling. 

In a situation like yours, being around your "love object" makes your brain generate chemicals that act very much like certain drugs, and you get withdrawal symptoms when they are no longer being generated due to not being around her. Thus, every time you see her you will get a rush of these chemicals, followed by withdrawal symptoms.

This is why it is so hard to end such a relationship, and why some people find it harder than others, just as some people find alcohol or other drugs harder to give up.

Oh, and by the way, this is also why people are telling you that these feelings don't mean you are her soulmate, and that they will not last if you go through with your plans to go off with her. The brain gets used to the changed situation and no longer generates the same chemicals, so in order to get them again, it will be necessary to do the same with a new partner.


----------



## thegenericjournal

Again, the name calling. Really? "He knows he's a douche." Thanks.


----------



## Yeswecan

thegenericjournal said:


> OK. So say I decide to end this and try to make a go of round two with my wife. Do I completely break contact with the other woman? She was a friend before I loved her. Could we mutually move into the friend zone now? Sure, we will hurt, because we're denying ourselves, but that minimizes the hurt to others. But after that, can we be friends?


You need to tell your W first. Then go NC with the OW. Of course this is all contingent on your W wanting to R at all. 

There is no "friends." NC means NC.


----------



## sapientia

Yeswecan said:


> He is sorely mistaken if he believes infidelity is God's answer to his prayers.


I agree with you, but that is not what that quote says.


----------



## Yeswecan

sapientia said:


> I agree with you, but that is not what that quote says.


Understood. :smile2:


----------



## sapientia

thegenericjournal said:


> Again, the name calling. Really? "He knows he's a douche." Thanks.


That was in response to another post. I already know you know.

Also, please don't pull the "I'm so offended" card on us. You came here looking for guidance on a topic that is quite offensive to some. Caveat emptor applies.

In my own case, I walked away from an emotional affair before it became physical because I decided I would rather eat my own sh!t than break my marriage vows and hurt my family this way. I'm now happily remarried (not to my e-affair 'friend'), my ex and I are good friends and our son is very happy and settled.

You can too, with some self-control. Step out of your head and get off the emotional needle. See what IS, not your escapist fantasy of how you would like life to be.


----------



## depressedandexhausted

Nope I cant say anything nice. You know the old saying.


----------



## thegenericjournal

True. I understand what you meant by that now. I am a douche. 

I'm a douche that didn't go looking for this. It happened. I'm trying to figure out if it happened only because I'm a douche though. Obviously my marriage is broken, or it would not have happened. 

So, either I work on my marriage and break contact with OW, or I break my failing marriage, then resume contact with OW and see if it was the real deal. 

And I know I'm in a fog. If I thought I had it figured out, I wouldn't have come here. I appreciate the unbiased opinions. 

For the record, I haven't prayed for this. I know full well that infidelity is never going to be an answer to prayer. I've prayed for clarity and help in this. Just so we're all clear.


----------



## BetrayedDad

thegenericjournal said:


> We've talked about if/how/when we leave our spouses and see if we could make "us" work. She also has a child, same age as my son. My son is the only reason I haven't left my wife yet. I know the hurt this will cause him.
> 
> I'm not looking for advice. I know most of you will tell me to let the new girl go. I'm looking for feedback.


Well... what are you waiting for? What feedback do you want? If you're soul mates, confess to your spouses, file for divorces and be with each other. What's the problem? 

The kids? You're soul mates, they'll understand. Every Disney movie ends with the soul mates riding off into the sunset. Wouldn't you rather that, than to continue to be the scumbag cheater you are acting like RIGHT NOW? 

DIVORCE, so you're wife can find her true love, like you've found yours. The answers seems pretty obvious. Why continue the deception and betrayal? Do your wife a favor and dump her. She doesn't deserve this kind of treatment. She deserves better. Stop being selfish.


----------



## Yeswecan

thegenericjournal said:


> True. I understand what you meant by that now. I am a douche.
> 
> I'm a douche that didn't go looking for this. It happened. I'm trying to figure out if it happened only because I'm a douche though. Obviously my marriage is broken, or it would not have happened.
> 
> So, either I work on my marriage and break contact with OW, or I break my failing marriage, then resume contact with OW and see if it was the real deal.
> 
> And I know I'm in a fog. If I thought I had it figured out, I wouldn't have come here. I appreciate the unbiased opinions.
> 
> For the record, I haven't prayed for this. I know full well that infidelity is never going to be an answer to prayer. I've prayed for clarity and help in this. Just so we're all clear.


Glad you appear to be coming out of the fog a bit. Realize what you are doing to the entire family. Both of them. Understand this revelation will not be met with open arms and all being thrilled you have found your soulmate(there is no such thing). Either way, you are about to embark on one hell of a ride.

And the notion that, "It just happened." does not fly here at TAM. What has transpired was carefully orchestrated.


----------



## sapientia

thegenericjournal said:


> I'm a douche that didn't go looking for this.


Actually, you did, though you probably don't realize exactly why. There are definitely things you could have done that would have reduced the likelihood of your affair. However, none of that changes your current situation. You must now deal with the consequences of your choices. You cannot unring a bell.

Here are the questions I started with:

"What's important to me?"

"What kind of person do I want to be?"

"What lessons will my children learn from me?"

Once you know these answers, clearly in your own mind, then take the steps that will move you towards those answers.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

thegenericjournal said:


> True. I understand what you meant by that now. I am a douche.
> 
> I'm a douche that didn't go looking for this. It happened. I'm trying to figure out if it happened only because I'm a douche though. Obviously my marriage is broken, or it would not have happened.
> 
> So, either I work on my marriage and break contact with OW, or I break my failing marriage, then resume contact with OW and see if it was the real deal.
> 
> And I know I'm in a fog. If I thought I had it figured out, I wouldn't have come here. I appreciate the unbiased opinions.
> 
> For the record, I haven't prayed for this. I know full well that infidelity is never going to be an answer to prayer. I've prayed for clarity and help in this. Just so we're all clear.


Why do you keep saying that you didn't go looking for this? People hardly ever do, but why are you implying that somehow makes it "better?" It doesn't!

So what happens if you leave your wife and OW decides she just can't destroy her family like you can? Then what?


----------



## NobodySpecial

thegenericjournal said:


> OK, so firstly, thank you for taking so much time to give me your feedback. Everyone, I do appreciate your collective take on this.
> 
> I know, I'm not unique. I know that the love could be rainbows and unicorns. I also know that there will be bad things in the new relationship that will require work. Remember, I've been married for 13 years. I know what it
> takes to make things work.


I would say that you have strong evidence to the contrary.



> The twins part - that's not imagined. The similarities between the two of us are not imagined. They are real. The list is long, and to ensure our anonymity, I won't get into it. Put it this way: if we were both single, our friends would be saying, "yes, it makes sense that you two get together...you have SO much in common"
> 
> Next, I want to reiterate that I didn't go looking for an affair. We met, we became friends with no illicit intentions at all, and now we're in love. We've talked about all of the things you all have mentioned. Maybe we're a page ripped from the "Cheating for Dummies" book, but we've tried not to love.


I am sorry. But do people really believe this nonsense while they are speaking it? That IS a a fog. If you really tried not to love, you would not be seeing her.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

My guess is that if you confess to the OW's husband, you'll find out pretty quickly her actual feelings for you. It's all fun and games until she gets caught. Then once she realizes what she's about to lose, she'll drop you like a hot potato.


----------



## woundedwarrior

sapientia said:


> No, all the data says that if you are ending the affair, the rule is no contact and full disclosure to your wife for any chance of success. The wrong is yours and, for R, your wife calls ALL the shots. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.


Sadly for you, the OP, this is absolutely true. You can no longer see her, once you cross the friends line, you can't go back again. The plus side is that you didn't sleep with her, so that should make forgiveness a little easier from your wife. If you elect to not tell her, make the other woman disappear completely, the guilt will eat you alive.

Do the right things and hope you didn't screw up too much.


----------



## Satya

I'd say that there's a very good chance you've come here for validation, you're not getting it, so now you'll play along with the sensible crowd until they say things you really don't want to hear and then you'll disappear. 

However, if you really want to open your eyes, ears, and mind to reason, and can willingly put your feet to the fire and eat some humble pie, then you'll learn a great deal from these folk.

You need to seriously consider leaving your wife if you're so sure of these feelings. You'll please forgive me if I choose to not believe you haven't been intimate with the OW. What you do is your choice, but right now your wife has no choice, so why don't you be decent and give her one? 

Tell her the truth.


----------



## sapientia

By the way, one of the things you will not read often here on TAM is the understanding that, to your point, there is something very wrong with your marriage. Most likely you both got lazy and complacent about your relationship. Whatever the issues, they are something that BOTH you and your wife must own. It is highly unlikely your wife is a blameless victim in the ills of your marriage.

It is important, however, not to hide behind this knowledge as justification for your behaviour. It's not. How you have chosen to deal with the problems in your marriage, the decisions you have made, are entirely yours to own.

Some people are okay with cheating. For example, there are men and women who, because they otherwise are excellent providers for their families, believe that its okay to have the occasional extra marital fling. Most do not agree with the morals of this, but expanding your personal POV on the matter will help you to escape the binary "I'm acting evil but want to be good" cognitive dissonance you are currently experiencing. Life is not black and white, but rather shades of grey (sorry, couldn't resist).

Again, look to those questions I posted. You need to spend some time looking inward to ask yourself about what matters to you. Noone here can supply those answers.

By the way, when you start to encounter that gibbering monkey inside yourself.. try not to mentally run away. If you can spend some time listening to that difficult inner voice and address it authentically and with integrity, I promise you'll come to the right answer 99% of the time.

Good luck.

- Sapi


----------



## Steve1000

thegenericjournal said:


> Obviously my marriage is broken, or it would not have happened.


Does your wife know that your marriage is broken?


----------



## toonaive

This wont end well. So many other people involved that yourselves.


----------



## Dude007

I'm betting betrayed wife and OW betrayed husband end up together after its all said and done a la Shania Twain..Dude


----------



## Yeswecan

Steve1000 said:


> Does your wife know that your marriage is broken?


I'm guessing the W did not get the memo. :wink2:


----------



## thegenericjournal

Satya said:


> I'd say that there's a very good chance you've come here for validation, you're not getting it, so now you'll play along with the sensible crowd until they say things you really don't want to hear and then you'll disappear.
> 
> However, if you really want to open your eyes, ears, and mind to reason, and can willingly put your feet to the fire and eat some humble pie, then you'll learn a great deal from these folk.
> 
> You need to seriously consider leaving your wife if you're so sure of these feelings. You'll please forgive me if I choose to not believe you haven't been intimate with the OW. What you do is your choice, but right now your wife has no choice, so why don't you be decent and give her one?
> 
> Tell her the truth.


A few things: I didn't come here for validation. I don't need validation from complete strangers. If I was looking for validation, I'd use the validation my friends have given me. I was looking for unbiased opinions and feedback.

Next, you can choose not to believe me, but we haven't been intimate. We talked about it, but both decided that we would not, since that's a bridge that burns once you cross it, on many different levels. That's moot point though. If the affair was just sex, it would be easier to break from. It's not sex. It's everything but at this point. That's what makes this harder.

The rest of what you said, thank you. I will take that to heart.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

thegenericjournal said:


> A few things: I didn't come here for validation. I don't need validation from complete strangers. *If I was looking for validation, I'd use the validation my friends have given me.* I was looking for unbiased opinions and feedback.
> 
> Next, you can choose not to believe me, but we haven't been intimate. We talked about it, but both decided that we would not, since that's a bridge that burns once you cross it, on many different levels. That's moot point though. If the affair was just sex, it would be easier to break from. It's not sex. It's everything but at this point. That's what makes this harder.
> 
> The rest of what you said, thank you. I will take that to heart.


Your friends have given you "validation" that you'd make the perfect couple. I wonder if they'd validate you in the same way if they knew you were pondering destroying many, many, many lives (the negative impact of divorce "spreads" throughout the entire extended family and friends) due to their opinion about you and your "perfect mate." 

You say you haven't slept together yet. Just remember, her breath stinks in the morning too, just like your wife's. Take this woman off the pedestal you have her on before you ruin your life and hers.


----------



## Evinrude58

My thoughts:
1) Both of you are just enjoying the high of meeting someone new and feeling the drug-like effect of the same. But you can't possibly appreciate the character of the other, because you are both demonstrating that you have none, at least not good character. Not a jab at you, but surely you realize that a person of character would not break their vows at the drop of a hat with the first person that shows interest that they thing has "things in common, similarities, etc.". 
2) The spouse you have has been with you for all these years. You don't owe them ANYTHING????
Do you think it will be that easy to find a person to put up with all your bad qualities? We all have them! THe person you see now in this wayward wife, is not the person you will see in the future when the excitement has worn off. Will she be able to live with you? Will you her? NOBODY knows, certainly not you. Obviously you are willing to take the chance. It's a SMALL chance. Look at the statistics!
3) NO, your son will be devastated, it will change him, and your wife's life and his will be torn to pieces--- do you care? REally??
4) Have you ever had something you really wanted to buy, and thought about it every day, but once you DECIDED not to buy it, you didn't think about it or worry about it anymore? The same thing can happen if you absolutely DECIDE not to pursue this further. You will eventually forget about this person. It IS your duty to do this, both to yourself, your wife, and your son. I don't think you're willing because you are being SELFISH! STOP!
5) It happens to lots of people. SOme decide their word is worth more than their childish feelings. Most just cave to their feelings and ruin their lives and the lives of the people they supposedly loved most in the world. What are you going to do?
6) If you do this, do you realize that your wife AND son will never trust you again?
7) You can stop now, never mention this, and go on with your life. Or, if you think it's that bad, wait until you're both divorced and go ahead--- if she's willing now to divorce, and willing to wait for you vs. someone else after a reasonable period of time so you won't look like such a scumbag to your son.

I personally think you should be ashamed for what you've done, and are about to do. But more importantly, YOU are going to be ashamed if you're any kind of man, and regret this later.

I am sorry for your wife and her husband, and both sets of kids. They didn't ask for all this to happen.


----------



## NobodySpecial

So I will give my opinion on what you should do. First, look in the mirror and ask yourself, what kind of person am I? What are my values? How important is integrity? 

Is wrecking the mother of your child, your child and your integrity worth it for what amounts to new relationship energy? What makes you think that is she will cheat once, she won't do it again? What makes her think that of you? Will it always be niggling in the back of your minds?


----------



## thegenericjournal

sapientia said:


> "What's important to me?" *My son.*
> 
> "What kind of person do I want to be?" *Someone with integrity, trustworthy. I've been known for that through the years, and I want to hang on to that.*
> 
> "What lessons will my children learn from me?" *I know what I want him to learn from me. *
> 
> Once you know these answers, clearly in your own mind, then take the steps that will move you towards those answers.


sapientia, thank you for taking this time to post.


----------



## Evinrude58

One more thing........... How could you ever trust one another? It would seem impossible. You have proven to each other that your word means nothing. I'm just asking. Trust seems like an important thing in a marriage.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
It depends on your situation at home which you still haven't described. To me this is critical to your actions. Basically if your motivation to cheat doesn't go away, you will eventually do it again. 


In most cases ending contact with the OW, except in public is a very good idea. Whether or not telling your wife is a good idea depends on your home situation. 






thegenericjournal said:


> OK. So say I decide to end this and try to make a go of round two with my wife. Do I completely break contact with the other woman? She was a friend before I loved her. Could we mutually move into the friend zone now? Sure, we will hurt, because we're denying ourselves, but that minimizes the hurt to others. But after that, can we be friends?


----------



## sapientia

thegenericjournal said:


> sapientia, thank you for taking this time to post.


You are very welcome. I'm off today and having a quiet, lazy day. If our posts help you to avoid a train wreck, then its worth it. I belonged to another forum where I was lucky enough to "meet" a very wise poster who likewise helped me. You are in a very vulnerable place right now, looking for a lifeline to cling to. Been there.


----------



## Satya

The saying, "If they cheat with you they will cheat on you" runs rampant around here and it's really something to consider. The foundation of a relationship (in my experience) determines how it often plays out. What may feel like true love is built upon deception, whispers, and secret rendezvous. It will burn intensely as star crossed love often does, and will intoxicate you both with its heady scent..... But for only so long until the cloying fart of reality hits.


----------



## Yeswecan

thegenericjournal said:


> A few things: I didn't come here for validation. I don't need validation from complete strangers. If I was looking for validation, I'd use the validation my friends have given me.


You need new friends, brother. These friends are toxic. Imagine if you would, you and the OW do get together. Your "friends" now advising your new woman to go cheat on you. Great friends!


----------



## Yeswecan

SecondTime'Round said:


> You say you haven't slept together yet. Just remember, her breath stinks in the morning too, just like your wife's. Take this woman off the pedestal you have her on before you ruin your life and hers.


OP, good words of wisdom here.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Satya said:


> The saying, "If they cheat with you they will cheat on you" runs rampant around here and it's really something to consider. The foundation of a relationship (in my experience) determines how it often plays out. What may feel like true love is built upon deception, whispers, and secret rendezvous. It will burn intensely as star crossed love often does, and will intoxicate you both with its heady scent..... But for only so long until the *cloying fart of reality* hits.


Oh My God. That cracked me up.


----------



## thegenericjournal

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> It depends on your situation at home which you still haven't described. To me this is critical to your actions. Basically if your motivation to cheat doesn't go away, you will eventually do it again.
> 
> 
> In most cases ending contact with the OW, except in public is a very good idea. Whether or not telling your wife is a good idea depends on your home situation.


Situation at home:

Son loves me, obviously. He's my world, and we're his.

W and I both work full-time. I'm very busy with extracurricular (not for profit, volunteer boards etc) activities. We've drifted. She has zero interest in my activities, and she keeps herself busy with the things she likes. We've chatted briefly about drifting apart, so we took a vacation to have time for us. Even there our interests were polar opposites. We ate together, slept together and had sex. Other than that, we were apart. But, in a weird way, that worked. 13 years of marriage means you're ok with your spouse reading in the room while you go play water polo and have drinks with your teammates. At home, we argue about stupid things, and basically, when it comes down to it, we have our history and our mutual love for our son that we really connect on. Other than that, there's not much. And, in all honesty, instead of trying to fix that, we just avoid each other with our busy lives. 

Then, enter OW that shares nearly ALL of my interests. Naturally, my wife is happy that I found a friend to share these things with. She even gave up her night with me out and TOLD me to invite OW, knowing that OW would enjoy this particular event more than she would.

In a nutshell, things are stale. They're loveless. On the surface, we're OK. Go beneath the skin, and we're not. Not even close (aside of course, from the fact that I'm in love with another woman). Without this OW, things weren't good. But, I was willing to keep it going as long as we weren't fighting all the time, all this so my son still had mommy and daddy in the same house. But then OW happens, and I'm forced to deal with all of this. I'm not the victim, but it is forcing me to make a decision.


----------



## Dude007

thegenericjournal said:


> Situation at home:
> 
> Son loves me, obviously. He's my world, and we're his.
> 
> W and I both work full-time. I'm very busy with extracurricular (not for profit, volunteer boards etc) activities. We've drifted. She has zero interest in my activities, and she keeps herself busy with the things she likes. We've chatted briefly about drifting apart, so we took a vacation to have time for us. Even there our interests were polar opposites. We ate together, slept together and had sex. Other than that, we were apart. But, in a weird way, that worked. 13 years of marriage means you're ok with your spouse reading in the room while you go play water polo and have drinks with your teammates. At home, we argue about stupid things, and basically, when it comes down to it, we have our history and our mutual love for our son that we really connect on. Other than that, there's not much. And, in all honesty, instead of trying to fix that, we just avoid each other with our busy lives.
> 
> Then, enter OW that shares nearly ALL of my interests. Naturally, my wife is happy that I found a friend to share these things with. She even gave up her night with me out and TOLD me to invite OW, knowing that OW would enjoy this particular event more than she would.
> 
> In a nutshell, things are stale. They're loveless. On the surface, we're OK. Go beneath the skin, and we're not. Not even close (aside of course, from the fact that I'm in love with another woman). Without this OW, things weren't good. But, I was willing to keep it going as long as we weren't fighting all the time, all this so my son still had mommy and daddy in the same house. But then OW happens, and I'm forced to deal with all of this. I'm not the victim, but it is forcing me to make a decision.


Ok, then honestly tell your wife. She may actually want out more than you! Maybe she has someone else she has her eye on too.


----------



## sapientia

Here we go...


----------



## truster

thegenericjournal said:


> Situation at home:
> 
> Son loves me, obviously. He's my world, and we're his.
> 
> W and I both work full-time. I'm very busy with extracurricular (not for profit, volunteer boards etc) activities. We've drifted. She has zero interest in my activities, and she keeps herself busy with the things she likes. We've chatted briefly about drifting apart, so we took a vacation to have time for us. Even there our interests were polar opposites. We ate together, slept together and had sex. Other than that, we were apart. But, in a weird way, that worked. 13 years of marriage means you're ok with your spouse reading in the room while you go play water polo and have drinks with your teammates. At home, we argue about stupid things, and basically, when it comes down to it, we have our history and our mutual love for our son that we really connect on. Other than that, there's not much. And, in all honesty, instead of trying to fix that, we just avoid each other with our busy lives.
> 
> Then, enter OW that shares nearly ALL of my interests. Naturally, my wife is happy that I found a friend to share these things with. She even gave up her night with me out and TOLD me to invite OW, knowing that OW would enjoy this particular event more than she would.
> 
> In a nutshell, things are stale. They're loveless. On the surface, we're OK. Go beneath the skin, and we're not. Not even close (aside of course, from the fact that I'm in love with another woman). Without this OW, things weren't good. But, I was willing to keep it going as long as we weren't fighting all the time, all this so my son still had mommy and daddy in the same house. But then OW happens, and I'm forced to deal with all of this. I'm not the victim, but it is forcing me to make a decision.


Of course you're going to feel this way if you want to justify an affair. It's a requirement, if you want to do something you know is wrong and yet feel like a good person. The question is, if these things are so important to you, relationship-enders, then why haven't you been addressing them, and giving your W the opportunity to address them or call it quits?

We all tend to get a little too comfortable in relationships at times. Sometimes having the 'fix it or end it' ultimatum shakes things up, sometimes not. But denying her the chance to make a choice, and keeping her in the dark, is just using her as a stable back-up plan while you chase la-la love and see how it turns out. No one deserves that, and no 'good person' would do that to someone.


----------



## sapientia

thegenericjournal said:


> Then, enter OW that shares nearly ALL of my interests. Naturally, my wife is happy that I found a friend to share these things with. She even gave up her night with me out and TOLD me to invite OW, knowing that OW would enjoy this particular event more than she would.
> 
> In a nutshell, things are stale. They're loveless. On the surface, we're OK. Go beneath the skin, and we're not. Not even close (aside of course, from the fact that I'm in love with another woman). Without this OW, things weren't good. But, I was willing to keep it going as long as we weren't fighting all the time, all this so my son still had mommy and daddy in the same house. But then OW happens, and I'm forced to deal with all of this. I'm not the victim, but it is forcing me to make a decision.


Your wife sounds like a thoroughly decent woman. This isn't to make you feel like sh!t, but to remind you of that fact.

So, here's some food for thought for you. When I told my ex about my EA (neither he nor I called it such, btw), I understood my feelings were symptoms of what was missing in our marriage. Not that I necessarily thought our marriage was over at the time. Nor did he.

That disclosure led to a lot of discussion, including the critical fact that, among other things, my H had grown to become ultra liberal in his thinking (or very bored). I won't shock with details on a public forum, but suffice to say I knew soon after our marriage was over. We did counselling, etc. but there really wasn't enough common ground for us to remain anything other than co-parents, which we do very well. Our divorce and current relationship is quite civilized. This is the perk of not disrespecting someone who is a fundamentally decent person. If you do divorce, it will be painful, but not necessarily destructive.

There is a happy ending at the end of this story, if you can hold your integrity and desires in check to win the long game.


----------



## thegenericjournal

Both OW and I have agreed that if we leave our spouses it's on the basis of our marriage, not to be with each other. We've agreed to not see each other outside of legitimate reasons until such a time (legitimate meaning work and the other things we're both involved in). We've talked about that IF we end up together, we want it to be because our current relationship ended on its own merits. Not because we left her for her or him for him. We know that's a dangerous path to go down. 

I'm out for the day folks. Thanks for the hard truths and the encouragement (from some) and the kick in the ass (from others). I'll check back in tomorrow.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
If both people don't work at it, the excitement of a marriage will fade. That is normal - and it can be fixed if you try. Have you tried taking an interest in each other's activities, or developing common ones? Do you still go out for date nights, do you bring her flowers by surprise? Take romantic weekends away? Do you both try to make sex exciting, or just do the same thing every time?

Without work a relationship will fade. But that will be true of the next relationship as well. You will get used to each other, the spark will fade.

You can decide that you are not cut out for marriage. You can have a series of short term relationships to keep things fresh and happy.... BUT no you can't. You decided to have a CHILD and that means that the happy Don Juan life is closed to you. 

You need to make a real effort to make your current marriage work. If you can't, then you have to wonder if you can make the next one work either.








thegenericjournal said:


> Situation at home:
> 
> Son loves me, obviously. He's my world, and we're his.
> 
> W and I both work full-time. I'm very busy with extracurricular (not for profit, volunteer boards etc) activities. We've drifted. She has zero interest in my activities, and she keeps herself busy with the things she likes. We've chatted briefly about drifting apart, so we took a vacation to have time for us. Even there our interests were polar opposites. We ate together, slept together and had sex. Other than that, we were apart. But, in a weird way, that worked. 13 years of marriage means you're ok with your spouse reading in the room while you go play water polo and have drinks with your teammates. At home, we argue about stupid things, and basically, when it comes down to it, we have our history and our mutual love for our son that we really connect on. Other than that, there's not much. And, in all honesty, instead of trying to fix that, we just avoid each other with our busy lives.
> 
> Then, enter OW that shares nearly ALL of my interests. Naturally, my wife is happy that I found a friend to share these things with. She even gave up her night with me out and TOLD me to invite OW, knowing that OW would enjoy this particular event more than she would.
> 
> In a nutshell, things are stale. They're loveless. On the surface, we're OK. Go beneath the skin, and we're not. Not even close (aside of course, from the fact that I'm in love with another woman). Without this OW, things weren't good. But, I was willing to keep it going as long as we weren't fighting all the time, all this so my son still had mommy and daddy in the same house. But then OW happens, and I'm forced to deal with all of this. I'm not the victim, but it is forcing me to make a decision.


----------



## depressedandexhausted

Yeswecan said:


> And the notion that, "It just happened." does not fly here at TAM. What has transpired was carefully orchestrated.


You made a conscious decision to not uphold your end of the marriage. 

Funny how this reminds me of eminem, (I listen to country)



Wait, what if there's an explanation for this sh*t?
(What, she tripped, fell, landed on his d***?)

Your not fooling anyone. If your in a loveless marriage you should have gotten out the right way. I have a feeling she is going to be pretty hurt. Your about to change her lifestyle run off with a smile and probably leave her with all the issues.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

thegenericjournal said:


> Both OW and I have agreed that if we leave our spouses it's on the basis of our marriage, not to be with each other. We've agreed to not see each other outside of legitimate reasons until such a time (legitimate meaning work and the other things we're both involved in). We've talked about that IF we end up together, we want it to be because our current relationship ended on its own merits.


Oh brother!!!

Simply saying this does NOT make it true! You two are totally in a fantasy world.


----------



## Satya

TGJ, 

How did you learn that the OW was unhappy in her marriage?

Did she tell you?

Have you noticed that she and her husband didnt get along well when you were in both their company?

Did she refuse to let him buy her drinks at the bar?

Did she talk over him rudely?

Does he "not get her?"

Did she pay for her own drinks? 

Did she ever stop ordering drinks on his tab?

Did she start ordering drinks on yours in front of him?

Did she buy you a drink in front of him? 

Did she frown at him and smile at you? 

Did he treat her badly in your presence? 

Did he touch her at all while you were sitting together? 

Did she cringe in disgust when he did? 

In your opinion, would you say that her husband doesn't love her like he should? 

I'm truly curious tonight.


----------



## turnera

thegenericjournal said:


> Both of our marriages are quite platonic, but what we have is deep, passionate. We are kindred spirits. Quite literally twins. The similarities between us are quite uncanny. I've only known her for a few months, but it feels like I've known her forever.


Bullsh*t. What you have is PEA chemical coursing through your veins, making you addicted to each other. You're no different from any other cheater. You ALL say the same things. And you're all nothing more than garden variety cheaters.

http://affaircare.com/articles/what-is-disloyal-fog-2/

Do your wife a favor. Divorce her so she can find someone with integrity.


----------



## turnera

thegenericjournal said:


> Both OW and I have agreed that if we leave our spouses it's on the basis of our marriage, not to be with each other.


Great! Then you can show some integrity and decide to NEVER SEE EACH OTHER AGAIN once you divorce your spouses. And BE that person who your son can look up to.

Because if you DO get together, no matter how 'pretty' you try to make this, YOUR AFFAIR broke up your marriage and ruined your child's life.


----------



## depressedandexhausted

turnera said:


> Do your wife a favor. Divorce her so she can find someone with integrity.


This...


----------



## sapientia

thegenericjournal said:


> Both OW and I have agreed that if we leave our spouses it's on the basis of our marriage, not to be with each other. We've agreed to not see each other outside of legitimate reasons until such a time (legitimate meaning work and the other things we're both involved in). We've talked about that IF we end up together, we want it to be because our current relationship ended on its own merits. Not because we left her for her or him for him. We know that's a dangerous path to go down.


You must avoid becoming each other's emotional crutch during this process. Staying in contact when you are so powerfully attracted will make your agreement almost impossible to stick to. The road to hell...

You will eventually realize that NC is really the only answer but most EAs have to learn this for themselves. You are prolonging your mutual, shared pain, which you will hold around each other like a protective cloak, hoping it will bind you further together. Sadly, it's just a part of the denial process prior to letting go. The fog is thick and... cloying. LOL.

This is a good start. Keep your mind on what is important.


----------



## sapientia

turnera said:


> Great! Then you can show some integrity and decide to NEVER SEE EACH OTHER AGAIN once you divorce your spouses. And BE that person who your son can look up to.
> 
> Because if you DO get together, no matter how 'pretty' you try to make this, YOUR AFFAIR broke up your marriage and ruined your child's life.


No, I disagree. Only a very bitter person who is unhappy with themselves would go there and hold so much venom so long after the fact. Based on his posts, his wife doesn't sound the sort to be so vindictive to deny him happiness the rest of his life. 

A couple of thought arise from this. First, I'm not sure at this point (no physical affair) that one or both marriages can't be saved. Second, even if they both divorce, stats say a successful relationship is unlikely. It is possible, however, they could successfully reconnect if they both take time to recover from divorce and then start dating.

Personally, I would wait until his ex starts seeing someone before taking up again with this woman. That would take the sting out of the divorce for the one who was left. That's what I did and it worked well. I waited months after my ex started seeing his GF before I dated my H.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
Realize also that every situation is susceptible to perspective. From where you currently view this, the OW is your twin, your soulmate, your salvation. In true reality however, she may be just another woman who shares some of your interests but because of how you perceive your marriage, she is a godsend. Once you see her in the light of reality, she may appear more like your wife and less like a goddess.

You have also questioned the "what ifs". This is simply irrelevant. What ifs are completely fictional and therefore unprovable. We could all what if ourselves into insanity but to what end. The reality is you met your wife, you fell in love, you proposed and she accepted. You both swore solemn vows and that is what is. So, whatever energy you are putting into meeting this woman at events or "stealing" a cup of coffee, put that energy into your marriage instead. If you find yourself with some time at lunch go take your wife for coffee. Invest in your marriage and add to the 13 years you already have because I can guarantee your life after 13 years with the OW will not be the nirvana you believe it will be. That is the reality of it.


----------



## ing

There was a time when I would have written something meaningful here. When I would have tried really hard to point out the good points in your existing relationship
You know what. I can't be bothered. You are going to set a torch to your life. Meh. Go for it.


Just some housekeeping: 
Do not expect to remain friends with your wife.
Do not tell her that you love her but that you are not IN love with her.
Get used to only seeing your kid half the time

Mostly:
Do the decent thing and leave her alone to grieve the death of her marriage and eventually find someone that does actually love her


----------



## turnera

sapientia said:


> No, I disagree. Only a very bitter person who is unhappy with themselves would go there and hold so much venom so long after the fact. Based on his posts, his wife doesn't sound the sort to be so vindictive to deny him happiness the rest of his life.


I was talking about him never seeing his AFFAIR PARTNER again. Not his wife/stbx.


----------



## sapientia

turnera said:


> I was talking about him never seeing his AFFAIR PARTNER again. Not his wife/stbx.


Yes, I understand. I still disagree. Once he is divorced, he can do as he pleases, as can she. If they find happiness together, someday, why should anyone want to prevent that, except out of spite?


----------



## Dyokemm

Stop thinking your love is a noble and beautiful thing.....its built on betrayal, deception, and the dregs of human behavior.

Nothing good and sublime about that.....no true and noble love has to hide in the shadows because the partners are stabbing every other person in their lives in the back.

And stop telling yourself you know anything really about what her M is truly like....you call it 'platonic'....essentially dead.

But your only source of info for what their M has truly been like is your lover's word....a traitorous WW caught up in the same limerance as you.

In reality, you are an interloping dirtbag right now...screwing over another man and his family for your own selfish bullsh*t.....and doing a great job of destroying the happiness of your own W and kids at the same time.

Stop acting like a da*n teenager who can't control his hormones and act like an adult man with some dignity and honor.

LEAVE THIS MAN'S WIFE ALONE!!

Go back home and reflect on what you can do to save your own M...or have a frank discussion with your BW about how you can move on in a fair and peaceful manner.

But leave your AP totally alone to work out her own M without you sticking your own greedy, selfish nose into their business.

Or if you insist on keeping her...be a man about it.

Walk up to him and tell him to his face that you love his wife, she loves you, and you want to spend the rest of your lives together after you both divorce.

See how that goes for you.

Of course you won't, every poaching POSOM I've ever known is a cowardly little snake who furtively sneaks around with other men's WW's in the dark and in total secrecy.....chickensh*ts who invariable run or call the cops for protection when the rightfully irate BH finally finds out about their slimey a**.

You won't do it....but at least it would be stand up and honest.


----------



## turnera

sapientia said:


> Yes, I understand. I still disagree. Once he is divorced, he can do as he pleases, as can she. If they find happiness together, someday, why should anyone want to prevent that, except out of spite?


Well, I would hope that HE would want to prevent that so that his CHILDREN don't go through the rest of their lives knowing he chose screwing a woman he had an affair with over protecting THEIR well-being. And please spare me the 'they don't have to know about it' crap. They will know. And either hate HIM or hate themselves for it. The data backs this up.

Now, if he wants to wait until they have graduated from high school and moved out before he reconnects and consummates with his AFFAIR PARTNER, by all means. 

But breaking up children's lives, homes, family just so he can get his rocks off (oh, sorry, so he can be with his soul mate)? There's nothing honorable about that. Only selfish.

Of course _you_ would think it's ok, since it's what _you_ did, and you have to convince yourself you did the right thing.


----------



## Dyokemm

"And please spare me the 'they don't have to know about it' crap. They will know. And either hate HIM or hate themselves for it. The data backs this up."

Yep...it ALWAYS eventually comes out.


----------



## sapientia

turnera said:


> Well, I would hope that HE would want to prevent that so that his CHILDREN don't go through the rest of their lives knowing he chose screwing a woman he had an affair with over protecting THEIR well-being. And please spare me the 'they don't have to know about it' crap. They will know. And either hate HIM or hate themselves for it. The data backs this up.
> 
> Now, if he wants to wait until they have graduated from high school and moved out before he reconnects and consummates with his AFFAIR PARTNER, by all means.
> 
> But breaking up children's lives, homes, family just so he can get his rocks off (oh, sorry, so he can be with his soul mate)? There's nothing honorable about that. Only selfish.
> 
> Of course _you_ would think it's ok, since it's what _you_ did, and you have to convince yourself you did the right thing.


Oh Turnera, you are such a bitter, unhappy woman. That is NOT what I did.

What I did do is find the courage to end an unhappy marriage for both myself and my ex, so that we could each find our own happiness in the peace that followed. We are friends now, and support each other in the raising of our son, who is very happy.

I don't have any of the bitterness you are suffering with your daughter and present situation. I am sorry that makes you angry. Perhaps its not too late for you to find your courage and improve your situation.

Now, please take your anger into your own thread if you wish to continue to discuss, but I will thank you to not attack me any further in someone else's thread.

Best,
- Sapi


----------



## turnera

sapientia said:


> Oh Turnera, you are such a bitter, unhappy woman. That is NOT what I did.


Actually, I'm not bitter at all. My H hasn't cheated on me. I am unhappy, but that's because of my own inaction. I'm actually quite happy when I'm posting here.  Unless I run up against someone who advocates immorality and harmful choices. 

And what you said was:


> *I would* wait until his ex starts seeing someone *before taking up again* with this woman. That would take the sting out of the divorce for the one who was left. *That's what I did* and it worked well.


Does that not mean that you waited until you divorced your ex and let him find someone to date before you got back with your affair partner? Sounds like it.


----------



## sapientia

Not that I owe you any explanation, T, for your rudeness, but what I meant was, I didn't even start dating until months after my ex was already seeing his GF.

I never got back with my "affair partner" since we were never together in the first place. It was, loosely, what some might call an EA, although neither my ex nor I really think this merits the label it gets here at TAM. Perhaps I am wrong to use the term, but it seems the closest to what people might understand.

This other man was a constant, lifelong family friend of over 20 years. I made the mistake of venting our marriage problems to him. Problems which would, and did, eventually end my first marriage. He made the mistake of letting old feelings arise and wanting to support. In hindsight, our "EA" actually prolonged the death of my marriage b/c I let my feelings for him act as a salve to the hurts my ex was causing, instead of confronting him about them. He and my ex are still friends. I ended our friendship when my marital problems caused us to cross an emotional line. He wanted to reconnect and I declined, but not because I think its wrong but because the timing wasn't right. This is all in my R thread.

I find in many of your posts an unhappy, judgemental person, Turnera. Whatever the cause of your unhappiness, I do hope you find the courage to address it. You do not own morality, btw. That's a very egotistical comment, born out of insecurity and a lack of wisdom. All you can ever own are the consequences of your own decisions. If one is very lucky, perhaps one can also learn from the experience of others, if one is aware enough to filter through the large amount of anger, hurt and noise.

Now, I am sorry but I'm not going to continue this discussion in someone else's thread. You are just going to have to find a way to get over the fact I don't agree with you in this particular thread. Enjoy your evening.


----------



## gouge_away

OP
Why don't you sacrifice this affair to save your family?

Maybe then you will know true love.


----------



## thegenericjournal

You know, I've sensed a compassion and care in some of you, and a venom and deep set anger in others. I completely understand that some (or many) of you have been betrayed by people you love and that's where the anger comes from. And I'm glad that you have an outlet for that (here?), but for those who resort to name-calling, know that such actions tend to discredit anything else you say. Just an FYI for the future. You can go ahead and say I have no idea what I'm talking about because I'm in a "fog", but you and I both know that I'm right. To those who have showed a genuine compassion and care, thank you. I know, I'm a dirt scumbag, a douche, I need to be a real man, I'm a horrible father, husband etc etc, but don't think for a second that this war that happens inside is walk in the park. I know, my actions brought me here, but that doesn't mean that it's a cake walk. For anyone who has gone through this, you'll understand the hurt on the this side of the equation as well. Just because it's my own fault doesn't mean it can't hurt.

Now, a night has passed since I started this thread. I've come to realize a few things:

1. My marriage is worth more than I thought.
2. Her marriage is worth more than she realizes.
3. I would destroy my son's world, regardless of how I did this, the "right" way or the wrong way. Divorce destroys a child's world as he/she knows it. Minimizing the damage is how you divorce, but there's nothing I/we can do to eliminate the damage.
4. I need to forget about AP and what I feel for her if I'm going to make my marriage work. If my marriage doesn't work, I'll still need to forget about her until the divorce is final and we're all re-settled, if we want any chance at a successful relationship later. If either of us leave our spouses for each other, our relationship would be doomed. I see that now. 

Did I suddenly un-love her? Absolutely not. In fact, through all of this, perhaps I love her more. Go ahead, judge that. But I love her enough to see what's best for her and let her go. What's best for her is not me right now. What's best for me is not her. 

Yes, I will cry. The hurt of letting someone go that I love is not something I've ever gone through. I've only been "let go" by my now wife. My heart's only been broken, yes, by her. But that's a whole other story. 

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. To the bitter, angry ones, remember that venom doesn't heal. Sometimes a fire is needed to sear a wound shut, but please remember, if you wouldn't say something to someone in person (for fear of retaliation, or simply to save face), then try not to say those same things online. 

I'll keep an eye on this thread, if it progresses.


----------



## Dude007

thegenericjournal said:


> Yes, I will cry. The hurt of letting someone go that I love is not something I've ever gone through. I've only been "let go" by my now wife. My heart's only been broken, yes, by her. But that's a whole other story.


I think there is a WHOLE OTHER STORY to this...What happened dude? She hurt you? Is this a delayed retaliation affair? I'm trying to be understanding here.(and trust me thats hard) HA! DUDE


----------



## soccermom2three

Generic, is the OW also friends with your wife and are you friends with her husband? You're all friends?

My opinion is that your marriage was probably good, but then "love chemicals" and now you are re-writing the history of your marriage to justify your affair. You need to detach from the OW to get a clear picture of what's really going on in your life. I'm wondering how great your marriage would be if you put the same effort into your marriage that you're putting into your affair? I think it would be pretty darned great.


----------



## Marduk

Wait... your wife is ENCOURAGING you to spend time alone with the other woman?

If so, I think maybe you're in a 'coping' situation. Neither you or your wife want your marriage to end, but you don't exactly want each other, either.

If she's pushing you at the other woman, I'd suggest that you have a frank and open discussion about it with your wife. It could be that she has a playmate of her own to keep her sane in a marriage with you, and she's fine with you doing the same.

Adulthood means having difficult adult conversations about commitments. I suggest you start there.


----------



## Dude007

marduk said:


> wait... Your wife is encouraging you to spend time alone with the other woman?
> 
> If so, i think maybe you're in a 'coping' situation. Neither you or your wife want your marriage to end, but you don't exactly want each other, either.
> 
> If she's pushing you at the other woman, i'd suggest that you have a frank and open discussion about it with your wife. It could be that she has a playmate of her own to keep her sane in a marriage with you, and she's fine with you doing the same.
> 
> Adulthood means having difficult adult conversations about commitments. I suggest you start there.


this is so right on!!!


----------



## thegenericjournal

soccermom2three said:


> Generic, is the OW also friends with your wife and are you friends with her husband? You're all friends?
> 
> My opinion is that your marriage was probably good, but then "love chemicals" and now you are re-writing the history of your marriage to justify your affair. You need to detach from the OW to get a clear picture of what's really going on in your life. I'm wondering how great your marriage would be if you put the same effort into your marriage that you're putting into your affair? I think it would be pretty darned great.


Perception is the only reality we know, is it not? Point is, whether or not my heart was broken by my wife at ANY time during our relationship doesn't give me a single right to do what I did. End of story. So I'm not going to get into it. I was crazy about her as a teenager. She played around with my heart, dumped me four times, waited until I found another girlfriend (trying to move on) and then said she loved me and wanted me back. So I came back, hoping for what I felt before she dumped me for the last time, got some of that back, we got married and the rest is history. Don't go analyzing that. Please. That's not what this thread is about. My wife is a good woman, a great mother and a good wife. We'll work on the rest and try to make it great across the board.

Cheers


----------



## Dude007

thegenericjournal said:


> Perception is the only reality we know, is it not? Point is, whether or not my heart was broken by my wife at ANY time during our relationship doesn't give me a single right to do what I did. End of story. So I'm not going to get into it. I was crazy about her as a teenager. She played around with my heart, dumped me four times, waited until I found another girlfriend (trying to move on) and then said she loved me and wanted me back. So I came back, hoping for what I felt before she dumped me for the last time, got some of that back, we got married and the rest is history. Don't go analyzing that. Please. That's not what this thread is about. My wife is a good woman, a great mother and a good wife. We'll work on the rest and try to make it great across the board.
> 
> Cheers


OH NO!!!! SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! High School sweethearts??!! The AFFAIRAGE had a better chance of surviving...Sorry Dude..Your Odds a Super Low....DUDE


----------



## turnera

thegenericjournal said:


> You know, I've sensed a compassion and care in some of you, and a venom and deep set anger in others.


Just want to clarify - after I tell you congratulations for making the right choice - that if you're lumping me in with the 'venomous' crowd, you'd be wrong. I'm in the 'I've been on this board so long I've seen WAY TOO MANY marriages destroyed because of the Affair Fog' crowd, and I try really hard to make people like you, on the precipice, think twice and take a step back. As you now have, thank goodness. And no, my husband hasn't cheated on me, so no bitterness here.

Marriage is hard work. And the key word is WORK. Those PEA chemicals you're feeling for OW, you once felt for your wife. But they only stay in our bodies for 2 to 5 years, tops. It's our bodies' way of keeping the species going - just long enough to pop out a few kids, back in the caveman days.

Once that's out of your body, you have to find ways to stay in love. Dr. Harley's book His Needs Her Needs is the best book I've ever read on how to do that. It really isn't hard to do - you just have to pay attention to each other, KNOW each other, and spend 10 to 15 hours a week together doing non-kid/chore/work stuff, so that the 'flame' stays alive.

You can do this.


----------



## soccermom2three

thegenericjournal said:


> Perception is the only reality we know, is it not? Point is, whether or not my heart was broken by my wife at ANY time during our relationship doesn't give me a single right to do what I did. End of story. So I'm not going to get into it. I was crazy about her as a teenager. She played around with my heart, dumped me four times, waited until I found another girlfriend (trying to move on) and then said she loved me and wanted me back. So I came back, hoping for what I felt before she dumped me for the last time, got some of that back, we got married and the rest is history. Don't go analyzing that. Please. That's not what this thread is about. My wife is a good woman, a great mother and a good wife. We'll work on the rest and try to make it great across the board.
> 
> Cheers


Um, okay, weird response and you didn't answer my question.


----------



## sapientia

Not that you require my nor anyone else's approval but your next steps forward sound reasonable to me, GJ.

I wish you and your family peace and love on your journey.

Best,
- Sapi


----------



## Dyokemm

GJ,

I commend your decision and wish you the best.

I'm sure you thought mine was one of the harsh comments you received.

Sorry about that, nothing personal.

I just wrote you what I know my dad, male relatives, and friends would have said to me if I was talking all of the 'fog' nonsense that you were putting out to justify your A.

I know it was a figurative '2x4'...but it was meant to wake you up from your flawed thinking....and I apologize about the harshness.

But I am glad you have stepped back and re-evaluated what was going on in your life.

Your choice on how to move forward show some real honor and dignity.

Best of luck.


----------



## Quigster

thegenericjournal said:


> I also wasn't looking for vindication or absolution here. I was looking for unbiased feedback. However, some feel the need to judge, condemn and name-call. Saying things like I'm in "fantasy land" and to "grow a set".


I haven't been here very long, but it's been my observation that a lot of people posting here are so bitter and jaded that they may no longer be able to provide useful advice.

I've been where you are. I got into an affair while I was married. I took a long, hard look and decided to take the plunge. Ten years later, I'm still married to my affair partner. So, it can happen. It's possible.

What I suggest to you is that you take a good, hard look at your options. If you stay with your wife, is there any chance you can improve things? Is she a person you can live with for the rest of your life? Can you end your relationship with your new girl? You won't be able to just stay friends with her, not if you're in love with her. If you choose to stay with your wife, you must end it with the new girlfriend completely.

If you decide you want to be with your new girl, then how will it affect you financially? Are you willing to go through divorce court, custody battles, etc.? How are you going to divide your assets? How will this affect your job? What will your friends think? What will your mom think? Perhaps most importantly, how is this going to affect your son? If you move out to be with her, how will he cope? Can you make him understand that you're not divorcing him, just his mother? You have to ask yourself ALL the hard questions.

Really, what you can't do is stay in limbo. You can't have both women at once. Think long and hard about it and decide what you want to do. Make plans to make it happen. If you choose your wife, then don't ever let yourself fall in love with another woman again. Seriously. Nip it in the bud. If your choose your new girlfriend, then prepare yourself for the possibility that things may not last. When I moved in with my affair partner, I went into the relationship knowing that things might fizzle out and that it might only last for six months or a year or three years. I decided it was worth the gamble. You must make that decision for yourself. 

Just know that, right now, you're in the "honeymoon" phase of this new relationship. When and if you have sex with her, that feeling will only grow. It will completely short-circuit your brain. You will feel like she's the best thing that could ever happen to you. Over time, that feeling of newness will fade. You will no longer be infatuated with her very existence. What is left in its place will either be the basis for a stable relationship, or it will be nothing at all. You can't know for sure which it will be.

I do wish you the best of luck. 


Quigster


----------



## turnera

Quigster said:


> I haven't been here very long, but it's been my observation that a lot of people posting here are so bitter and jaded that they may no longer be able to provide useful advice.


Says nearly all posters with fewer than 100 posts. And ALL cheating posters.

That said, your advice is valid.



> Just know that, right now, you're in the "honeymoon" phase of this new relationship. When and if you have sex with her, that feeling will only grow. It will completely short-circuit your brain. You will feel like she's the best thing that could ever happen to you. Over time, that feeling of newness will fade. You will no longer be infatuated with her very existence. What is left in its place will either be the basis for a stable relationship, or it will be nothing at all. You can't know for sure which it will be.


Exactly what this 'bitter, jaded' poster said - that he's in the throes of his PEA chemical flowing through his veins. A drug addict. For a drug that usually lasts no more than 3 to 4 years.


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## sapientia

Quigster said:


> I haven't been here very long, but it's been my observation that a lot of people posting here are so bitter and jaded that they may no longer be able to provide useful advice.


I have noticed the same thing. If you dig a bit, you will sometimes see evidence of a kind of forum addiction in this sort, with the poster often posting judgement on multiple sites as a way to pass the time and deal with anger.

It's a coping mechanism, I suppose, instead of dealing with ones own issues directly. Cheaper than therapy.

Anyway, one can find gold if you are willing to sift through the "rubble of the rabble", lol. Welcome to the forum. I enjoyed reading your balanced post, btw.


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## Quigster

turnera said:


> Says nearly all posters with fewer than 100 posts. And ALL cheating posters.


Hey, everyone was new here at one time. The number of times I've posted here doesn't make what I have to say any less valid or worthwhile.


Quigster (just sayin')


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## turnera

No, it just makes you make unrealistic statements that are often far from what actually happens. What you see as bitter and jaded is usually seasoned, experienced posters who've sat back and watched HUNDREDS if not thousands of threads just like this one play out. And who have seen that there IS a script that cheaters follow, to a T, for some pretty logical psychological reasons. And there is also a betrayed spouse script that most BSs follow, which usually includes things like 'not my spouse,' and 'he/she is different, I trust them,' and 'she would never lie to me,' and 'I KNOW him so if he says there's no one else, I believe him,' and so on.

It IS constant enough to be predictable and a good 95% of all the threads here will play out the exact same way. 

So those of us who've been giving advice for longer than 100 posts have been around long enough to KNOW what's about to happen. And although we want the BS to figure it out fast, he/she almost never does. Thus the tough love imparted here to try to shake them out of the BS fog soon enough to actually have an effect on their marriage. Because it really is very time-dependent - the longer the BS allows the cheating to continue, the less likely the WS will return to the marriage.

No bitterness or jadedness attached to it - simply a desire to spare the next newbie the pain and suffering so many others have already gone through by trying to get them to accept the truth and do what will almost surely seem counterintuitive (exposure, etc.) but actually WORK.


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## Dude007

turnera said:


> No, it just makes you make unrealistic statements that are often far from what actually happens. What you see as bitter and jaded is usually seasoned, experienced posters who've sat back and watched HUNDREDS if not thousands of threads just like this one play out. And who have seen that there IS a script that cheaters follow, to a T, for some pretty logical psychological reasons. And there is also a betrayed spouse script that most BSs follow, which usually includes things like 'not my spouse,' and 'he/she is different, I trust them,' and 'she would never lie to me,' and 'I KNOW him so if he says there's no one else, I believe him,' and so on.
> 
> It IS constant enough to be predictable and a good 95% of all the threads here will play out the exact same way.
> 
> So those of us who've been giving advice for longer than 100 posts have been around long enough to KNOW what's about to happen. And although we want the BS to figure it out fast, he/she almost never does. Thus the tough love imparted here to try to shake them out of the BS fog soon enough to actually have an effect on their marriage. Because it really is very time-dependent - the longer the BS allows the cheating to continue, the less likely the WS will return to the marriage.
> 
> No bitterness or jadedness attached to it - simply a desire to spare the next newbie the pain and suffering so many others have already gone through by trying to get them to accept the truth and do what will almost surely seem counterintuitive (exposure, etc.) but actually WORK.


And the funny thing about it is there is really only like 16 base personality types. The brain works the same way for everyone. BUT EVERYONE thinks they and their story(Read: BS) is so unique. ITS NOT!!! DUDE


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## woundedwarrior

So are you going to come clean with your wife or just push it under the rug, stop all contact with OW and pretend like nothing ever happened and focus on your marriage?? If this was answered, I apologize, I didn't see it. 

Although this may blow up in your face, like I said earlier, the guilt will haunt you and if it's not now, it may come out years down the road and make things a lot worse.

Is the OW perfectly fine with quitting cold turkey with you, is she going to tell her husband?


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## Dude007

Only way to not have guilt is if you are a psychopath. He doesn't sound like one so the guilt n shame will overwhelm him at some point. That's why some waywards commit suicide


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## aine

TGJ, I do not agree with your dabbling with the possibility of an A, you are on the road of an EA at least but am glad that you have made some good decisions to work on your marriage. How are you going to do that? Going back to the status quo will bring you back to the place you are in now.

You have to really sit down and discuss where you are with your wife now, tell her of your fears of attraction to another (this will hold you accountable, as spouses we must be accountable to one another) and that you want the marriage and the family to work, will she do it with you. Then go for MC to get you on the right track and rediscover what you had. 

This attraction to the OW is just that, the dopamine levels are high and you see all that is good about the two of you. Yet you haven't seen her when she craps on the toilet, wakes up first thing in the morning, has a hissy fit when she loses her temper, you have only seen the external persona and were ready to throw your marriage and kid away for that?

You have to cut all contact with the OW to help you move on and at least give your marriage a chance. If you do all of this and your M does not work out then at least you know you have done all you can


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## sapientia

Whether its business or life, I've always found the best advice comes from those who have actually lived through an experience. Not from the secondhand stories of others. Go to the source.

Anyway, the internet is full of armchair experts. Part of the experience of sifting through rubble. Good critical thinking training.


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## gouge_away

You do not need to say that you love or have been falling in love with this other woman, none of that is true anyhow.

You are 'infatuated' with this other woman, and that is the language I would use when coming out clean.
You were increasingly looking for reasons to be around this other woman because you were infatuated with her. You were concerned with how this crush would crush your family, and sought help from others.

The advice you received from others whom dealt with similar situations was, if you love your family and want to save it, you must come clean to your wife.

Tell your wife that you love her, and that you want to save your family.


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## JustAFamilyMan

thegenericjournal said:


> ... But, at this point, my biggest concern is my son.
> 
> How do I leave his mother and minimize his hurt? If I knew I could do this and he still be happy, I'd leave yesterday.


No, it isn't. If your son was your biggest concern, you'd be asking advice how to repair the marriage to return that love that's been missing. You didn't marry a platonic partner 13 years ago. You most likely didn't have a son with a platonic partner either.

There is no way to do this while "minimizing" his hurt unless by some miracle you and your wife are willing to live happily side by side in the same home even while divorced and remarried to new partners. Willing to share a home with another family? One where your ex-wife is living with another man? Think your wife will be?

No? Then realize that the hurt will be real and deep.



> My motives are love, but I haven't lost touch with reality. And, for the record, neither has she.


This is just the buzz talking. Reality has gone out the window. You've been unhappy a very long time. So has your affair partner. You connected in a situation where there was fertile ground. Poor communication (children add to this difficulty). Lack of willingness to be raw and exposed, from either you or your wife or maybe both.

It's also 99.9999% of the time that the person having the affair is the only one who sees the marriage as platonic. Both usually know it's a damaged marriage, but your wife is going to be deeply, fundamentally hurt. 

You've lost touch with reality. That doesn't mean you're evil, just that you've made a horrific mistake. The right order of next steps would be:

1.b) Try to fix the marriage. You loved her enough to marry her, to have a child with her. Your child deserves that you try again, with more honesty and bluntness this time. More realization between you both that things are at a point where divorce is possible. Contrary to most, I don't know that telling your wife about the affair is the right way to go. The chances of repairing the marriage then are close to zero. This requires 1.b...

1.b) Break off the affair. Now. No contact of any kind. Pure, cold, black void. If you have to leave organizations etc. to do that, do that. You cannot maintain contact with your infatuation and fix your marriage at the same time. You cannot go into a new relationship having started it this way and believe it will not surface later as a major issue. When the honeymoon phase wears off, and it will, you'll be looking at one another knowing you both left commitments that included children before and realize neither of you have shown a tendency to stick through such difficulties. How well will that go? If there is something really there, and your marriage falls apart and her marriage falls apart, there is no reason after you're divorced you can't reconnect with your "twin"

2) If the marriage can't be fixed, divorce.

3) Once divorce is underway, feel free to date.

That's the order things go where you minimize hurt and pain and can live with yourself.


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## JustAFamilyMan

gouge_away said:


> The advice you received from others whom dealt with similar situations was, if you love your family and want to save it, you must come clean to your wife.


I'm torn on this. My extended family was a bit of a hot-bed of infidelity. A shocking revelation after an elder member died was that her husband, a grandfather and soon to be great grandfather, had had an affair. He shared it in his grief with the broader family, but had decided never to tell her and did not. He had been so riddled with guilt, so unwilling to repeat the mistake and so eager to remain with her and the children that he opted to never tell her.

I've seen only a single example of a marriage that appears healthy on the surface after revealing infidelity. The others are either over or a trainwreck of distrust.

Maybe my family is just a poor example overall, beyond just the issues with infidelity, but coming 100% clean needs to be considered extremely carefully. The goal should be to benefit of the wronged spouse and any children involved, not to enable punishment/monitoring/vengeance or to get something off the cheaters chest.


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## Dude007

Well, we know biblically that sin equals death. I think a lot of waywards literally killed off the person they were pre affair so this makes sense. For me, my guilt meter is just too strong to do such a thing, but I can understand why others have affairs.(read: delusion)


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## woundedwarrior

Holding onto an emotional bond in a marriage takes a lot of work and once one of you let's it go away, you rarely get it back. For someone to even entertain the idea of being with someone else, it's obvious the bond is gone. I'm not trying to be negative here, but even if you, the OP can save the marriage, what are you really saving? Two people who tolerate each other with no romance, excitement, all for the sake of a son, who will see right through this. You can live this way, I am, and I can definitely see the allure of someone else paying that kind of attention to you, but as a married spouse you have to avoid the temptations and not allow yourself to be put in dangerous spots. You don't have to stay, but if you do, you have to accept the situation.

I commend you for wanting to fix your marriage, but if you don't find out and you usually don't, what drove you two apart, then you can't remedy the problem. The most you can hope for is to save face for your son, but you two will just resume where you left off again.


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