# Forgiveness. How?



## Fordsvt

My wife and I had a long talk last night. My other posts here describe what happened. I was in a sexless marriage. Average of once per month. I replaced that with porn for a few years. Not the right thing to do. I know that. I caught her in an EA in October. It lasted one month. It is over and she has been proving that over and over. But we are in limbo now. I have made it past the EA. She can't so far forgive me. I was using chat rooms porn etc. No PA was involved. 

We are in MC. Is it just time to forgive ? What can I do or say for her to forgive me? 
We are on the verge of separating. I would be moving out. We both agree to this idea. 
Is there anything I can do to get her past this? 17 years of marriage and together for 21. 
Any ideas thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964

Forgiveness is not the same as moving past something. If your wife ever does 'forgive' you, she will have done so for herself. She needs to find that path, not you.

As for helping your wife see that you are serious about not acting out any more, there are several things you can do, but none are guaranteed to 'win her back', if that's what you're looking for.

My husband also engaged in internet sex rooms, chats, and hook up sites. I am with him today because he decided I was more important that all that and sought help for himself. He currently attends a 12 step group for sex addicts once a week.

I suggest this book for you to start with

http://www.amazon.ca/In-Shadows-Net-Breaking-Compulsive/dp/1592854788


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## Fordsvt

Yes I have joined a support group for the Porn issue. I'm also itilizng the Employee Assistance Program for this as well as my personal well being too. It has helped very much. I don't feel I'm an addict. Haven't used it in over a month as I'm quite ashamed for what I've done. 

I suspect she will need time as she is a very emotional up and down state right now.


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## Sa55ycla55y

Here is the thing, women never want to think their man finds other women are better sexually. Her ego is hurt because you were able to engage in a sexual way with another woman. We want to hear we are the best you ever had, no woman will ever compare, I couldn't be with anyone else...now we all know its BS. We still want to believe it. We want to be pursued. My guess is that she fears you will go back to the porn if she isn't in the mood, or you two aren't good again. The trust is broken. Even though she had an EA we are hypocrital and still want to be the best. Its not right or logical but most women aren't. Having been in a similar situation myself I say the only way I would do it was if you had full disclosure. You show her there are no secrets. Let her see the history on the computer, or just don't get on it. Put some sort of guarantee that she can trust you. Keep telling her you don't need that, you need her. Start slowly but I don't think its the porn that is the issue, its the fact you could use the porn/chats to substitute her. Ask her what it will take, type it up if you have to. Make a marriage boundary list. Have it contain all the things either of you think are unacceptable. In my marriage we weren't on the same page and didn't realize those boundaries until they were broken. I hope you two can work it out and if you really love her and want her back, you have to pursue, fight, and do that over and over. Stop talking about separating, make that not an option for a period of time so that you can build the commitment. If I thought you were one foot out that door, why should I keep trying? You are going to leave anyway? Right? Just my two cents.


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## This is me

Forgiving needs to come from within. The thing most people do not understand is that forgiving releases the one forgiving more than the perp.

Like being charitable, those who give usually feel as good if not better than the person receiving the gift. 

It is up to her. But you can forgive yourself which is all that you can do. Time heals, so be patient!

Best wishes to you!


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## Fordsvt

Yes time will be a major factor. I will give it what it takes. I told her a few nights ago I totally forgive her EA. It's done and over. She has proved it. I want to start a New Normal. Move ahead. She told me she is very hurt and doesn't know if she can get past the chat rooms and sites. She still loves me and always will. But may not get past what I did. Though she has been warmer towards me of late. 

Her thinking is much more ambivilant of late. So that's a plus. I stated in MC that the door is still open and I will give150 percent to make it work. But we need to forgive and move forward. I can but can she? I think my MAP is working. Keep working on myself to be better and an improvement on life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## now_awake

Have you truly forgiven her? I've accepted things, but forgiveness for me is an ongoing process. 

I keep telling people about this video about forgiveness, but it really is an awesome talk about what forgiveness really is.

on youtube, just look up jack kornfield: the ancient heart of forgiveness


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## Fordsvt

She is not sure she can get past the online. We just talked for a long while here. It's damaged our relationship. I have forgivin but she is not there. We lost out connection a few years ago. That EA showed her she missing that desire. Another made her feel wanted. Man did that hurt. But I understand it. I want to be that one who makes her feel that again. Time and patience ? We still love each other. 

Separating we feel is needed. For the space to un cloud the air. She is very scared of it. Starting crying again. The adjusemt and all the unknown. I think if Ieave she will come back in her head and her heart. She may see I can still be an important part of her life. But she has to make that choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lanister0

She withheld sex and had an affair, so you turned to online porn as a response to her lack of affection. 
Now SHE is having trouble forgiving YOU? ....


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## lifeistooshort

I think different people have different capacities to forgive a everyone has different issues. Maybe your wife has less capacity than you. I would give her time to contemplate life without you, maybe she'll decide that it's a smaller deal than not having you around. I hope so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch

It seems to me that we need to forgive ourselves first for any part we play in our relationship challenges.

Much the same way we work on ourselves to heal and it is noticed by others, when we forgive ourselves, I hope that others can see it and forgive us as well.

Kind of corny but I know I still need to forgive myself completely for where I am today.

God has forgiven us for our sins, to not forgive ourselves is to shun his gift to us.

Stretch


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## frustratedinphx

Hi- I read your posts. I feel for both of you. Over time, you've mentioned how to have sex and how to ask for forgiveness, but I've not heard much talk about rekindling the relationship and/or your friendship...

If you don't have that, it's not really much of a marriage. I've been through hell with my husband over the last year, but the one thing that has not changed is that we want to be together (not just for our kids) and keep seeking ways to work on our relationship. We're learning to put our relationship above all- work, kids, and other commitments. Sex, forgiveness, etc. are byproducts of a better relationship, IMO. For the record, I don't think either one of us has truly forgiven the other... yet.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record, but have you read John Gottman's 7 Principles for Making Marriages Work? Pretty easy read, no sugar-coating. If you can't remember why you got together, why you want to remain committed and look toward a future that you both want, it might just not be there. It sounds like you both were lacking something from the marriage because you both stepped outside of the marriage looking for needs to be fulfilled.

For all that my husband and I did to each other (horrible stuff  ), we are learning to court each other, be nice to each other (not the roommate way), and be each other's best friends all over again. It's not perfect, but I wouldn't want it any other way. 

Our MC did say that separation is not the best option for a relationship that you want to work out unless personal or physical safety for one partner is an issue. It's the easy way, but not necessarily the best way.

In showing that you genuinely care about her and your relationship, by doing the things that she once cherished, forgiveness and a desire to rebuilding the connection might put you where you want to be... Be willing to fight for her even if she wants to throw in the towel. But, she genuinely has to be willing to do the same to give too or over time, will you become resentful if you're the only one giving? 

Either way, I wish you the best!


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## Lots of love

I don't know if you or your wife are religous but based on what you have said you and your wife would benifit greatly from attending an " art of marriage" siminar. MC give you a chance to talk things through in a safe zone but what they don't give you is a map to finding your way back to each other. In the Catholic church Divorce is basicly not an option so over the years the church has developed many programs designed to help couples maintain and reestablish good marriages. Recently my husband and I went to an art of marriage siminar. What i found to be the best part was all the useful tools and opportunities it gave us to connect with each other in a positive way on the ost challenging issues we have with each other. In the end i felt like we left with enough new tools that we now had a map that we can use anytime in the present or in the future to restrengthen our marriage, love and commitment to each other. 
The one thing that was said that resonated the most with me that opened my eyes and see marriage differently was, " a good marriage is not 50/50. You are not making deals with each other. In a good marriage each of you must want and will give way more than just 50%. This you will do out of love and compassion for one another. 

So don't move out. Instead take each day to show her why you love her. Why you choose her. Why you can't live your life with out her. 

If you think of each other as the unique, special, one of a kind gift that God gave to you in this life. You would take much better care of each other. Then admitting to each other your failings to do so becomes much easier and there for truly forgiving each other becomes possible. 

I wish you all the best and pray that you and your wife are able to find your way back to one another.


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## Fordsvt

lifeistooshort said:


> I think different people have different capacities to forgive a everyone has different issues. Maybe your wife has less capacity than you. I would give her time to contemplate life without you, maybe she'll decide that it's a smaller deal than not having you around. I hope so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think your right in saying she has a different capacity in dealing with this. I'm in a good place mentally. She is a stressed out wreck. We had a great talk last night. It seems she does not want me to move out. Not all of her anyways. Worried I won't return. Doing my 180 and MAP has shown her I can move on. She is scared stiff now of the conclusion she may not want. 

I'm not going to do anything rash. Just take it day by day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nogutsnoglory

Your situation is not adding up to me.
Your wife had an affair, you looked at porn and chat rooms.

I can see her valid point in being hurt but a bit of perspective as to the logic is needed.

She had an EA. You have been here long enough to realize that a woman engaged emotionally with another man is giving her the same validation that men get from sex.

Woman need the emotional connection to feel validated by another.
Men need sex to feel validated. So a wife having an EA is a VERY big deal. and IMO a MUCH bigger deal than what you did.

I am not saying you did anything right, you didn't and she is very right to be hurt by it, but it is not comparable to her actually allowing love to form with another man.

You were trying to get a fix, she was trying to replace you.

I think you are trying too hard to have her want you, and she needs to do more of the heavy lifting. I think she should be leaving and not you. 
If you are set on leaving, let her know that if and when you leave you are not planning on returning. That you have come clean, are getting help, and are devoted to the marriage, she wanting you out of the marital home, is so she can see if she can deal with you being gone, I would stick to the 180 hard. Do not give in, do not chase her at all. Continuing to improve yourself and preparing for your life with out her is your best option. It sounds like she wants this to be about her (not surprising) and this is why she is hanging on to the grudge against you. Without the "I just can't forgive him" attitude she would be left with nothing to focus on but her own issues and she is much more content making this a you problem.

Has she sent a NC letter to the OM?
Did you expose him to his wife, girlfriend, anyone?
Has she had any real consequences for her actions?
Have you monitored her to make sure she is no longer in contact with him?
Very common for a cheating spouse to cast blame on the BS and ask him to leave so she can have her cake and eat it too.

I think too many cheaters get away with this common attitude of blaming the BS for their actions and holding a grudge over the BS, which in their mind justifies their own behavior. She may have apologized for what she has done to your marriage, but if she truly saw herself as the cheater she is, she would be less inclined to make you out to be the bad guy in the situation.

She can get over what she did, but she can't get over what you did...? Does this make sense to you, certainly does not to me.


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## sayuri

I'm a wife, I cant say that I find too much wrong with porn just so as long I'm still the preferred and number one desired .. I guess it is because its like having a babysitter to keep dangers away. 
Anyhow, even though my husband and I do not have porn arguments, we do have other arguments that sometimes lead us pretty close to the separation edge. What we both find that really help glue us back together and appreciate each other is by focusing or concentrating on what great memories we shared, how much good we have, and also how much we have invested in each other. Its like thinking about these things floods in and helps wash out the argument that we are fighting. Perhaps you could find a romantic way to demonstrate or bring back to life these memories; like maybe doing something that you did once before where you had a great time with each other. Make sure its honest and gives off the vibe of sincerity (only of course if its honest.) I hope that can help.


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## sayuri

I have to say that I agree with nogutsnoglory too.


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## Tony Conrad

To me pornography is a kind of mental adultery and will seriously weaken the marriage, the sexual drive being very important to a man.

It will be hard for a wife to forgive this and many go for the divorce option when this happens but if the marriage is to continue forgiveness will need to happen. I don't think this is just for her it is for him too so that they can relate in an intamate way again.

Forgiveness needs to be a decision initially and then can be worked through. The trust will need to be built again as this is the quickest thing to break but takes the longest to build again.

I would say be patient.


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## Lanister0

I'm surprised how many people thinking looking at porn is something he needs to be forgiven for. Especially when SHE had an EA! 
You didn't do anything wrong, she's so incredibly insecure that she can't even handle you looking at porn (which is normal fyi)
She doesn't want you, but she doesn't want anyone else to have you either. Even fake fantasy women. She's selfish. 
She's using guilt to manipulate you. Holding her "forgiveness" over your head to control you.


You should tell her to F- off you don't need her forgiveness and then grab your balls out of her pocket, because she's been holding them for way too long.


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## Fordsvt

Well as far as the porn thing goes. I was doing chat rooms too like I mentioned in other posts. I was carrying on fantasy conversations for awhile. 
So I did take it too far. Looking at porn is not a big deal. But she felt I had a second secret life going. As far as my balls go, they are still there and doing mighty fine thx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frustratedinphx

NoGuts & Lanister- you can't apply a blanket equation to every man and every woman on how to feel after something happens to them. It's just not realistic and it's not fair to the actual individual. 

If I throw a rock and hit you in the head, will it hurt me differently than it hurts you? Probably. So really take a step back before you start saying that stuff. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about what either spouse did, except the involved spouses. It's not your life- it's theirs.

Fordsvt- your balls are in tact. Leave them where they are. Follow your heart, but give your head a little say in things. Don't get wrapped up in what bitter, cynical individuals want you to do. It's not their life and they do not have to live with any of the consequences of what you and your wife ultimately have to live with.

Regardless, we do all want you to find happiness. Whatever route that looks like.


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## Fordsvt

Frustrate sphinx. That was well put thx for that. 
Everyone's situation is different. I find many on here want war with their SO. 
Then they wonder why they never come back. You need to evaluate all the info then act.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Lanister0 said:


> I'm surprised how many people thinking looking at porn is something he needs to be forgiven for. Especially when SHE had an EA!
> You didn't do anything wrong, she's so incredibly insecure that she can't even handle you looking at porn (which is normal fyi)
> She doesn't want you, but she doesn't want anyone else to have you either. Even fake fantasy women. She's selfish.
> She's using guilt to manipulate you. Holding her "forgiveness" over your head to control you.
> 
> 
> You should tell her to F- off you don't need her forgiveness and then grab your balls out of her pocket, because she's been holding them for way too long.



Wow-all this coming from a "Veteran" poster with three posts!:rofl:

Try doing some reading on the boards here Spanky before you start beeking off.


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## Lanister0

Fordsvt said:


> Wow-all this coming from a "Veteran" poster with three posts!:rofl:
> 
> Try doing some reading on the boards here Spanky before you start beeking off.



I didn't know knowledge was directly related to internet post counts. All these years I was thinking it was relationship experience. Silly me.
As for you knowing how much I've read around here, well, you know what they say about assuming....


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## Lanister0

frustratedinphx said:


> NoGuts & Lanister- you can't apply a blanket equation to every man and every woman on how to feel after something happens to them. It's just not realistic and it's not fair to the actual individual.
> 
> If I throw a rock and hit you in the head, will it hurt me differently than it hurts you? Probably. So really take a step back before you start saying that stuff. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about what either spouse did, except the involved spouses. It's not your life- it's theirs.
> 
> Fordsvt- your balls are in tact. Leave them where they are. Follow your heart, but give your head a little say in things. Don't get wrapped up in what bitter, cynical individuals want you to do. It's not their life and they do not have to live with any of the consequences of what you and your wife ultimately have to live with.
> 
> Regardless, we do all want you to find happiness. Whatever route that looks like.


I'm not saying how someone should feel, but let's be honest about the reasons for those feeling. She can feel hurt by the online stuff all she wants, but it's not because he did something wrong it's because she's insecure. There might be some suppressed guilt there too because deep inside she knows that he wouldn't have done it if she had been an emotionally present loving wife. 
I am pointing out that it's hypocritical that she "can't forgive" him looking at porn and chatting online when she had an ea irl which he forgave her for. 
First she withheld sex, he reacted to that and got satisfaction somewhere else, and now she is withholding forgiveness. 
What did she expect him to do, be celibate while she was getting off on an emotional affair? She's doesn't seem to be taking any responsibility for her part in this.

She's holding her forgiveness over his head in order to prolong his guilt. Maybe trying to earn her forgiveness is causing him to be extra nice and attentive and kind to her, maybe she's afraid once he's forgiven he'll feel comfortable again and stop trying so hard. I don't know.
But I do know she's manipulated him into believing he needs her forgiveness when he doesn't.


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## hawx20

Lanister0 said:


> I'm surprised how many people thinking looking at porn is something he needs to be forgiven for. Especially when SHE had an EA!
> You didn't do anything wrong, she's so incredibly insecure that she can't even handle you looking at porn (which is normal fyi)
> She doesn't want you, but she doesn't want anyone else to have you either. Even fake fantasy women. She's selfish.
> She's using guilt to manipulate you. Holding her "forgiveness" over your head to control you.
> 
> 
> You should tell her to F- off you don't need her forgiveness and then grab your balls out of her pocket, because she's been holding them for way too long.


Had my wife been screwing me instead of the OM, I would have no need to look at porn. We are trying to work it out and are doing the hysterical bonding phase right now.....needless to say I havent had the slightest desire to look at porn.


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## Fordsvt

Well the EA lasted about 1 month. In Sept of this year. It had stopped for about 2 weeks in there as well. The other guy was doing the vast majority of the texting. I DL'ed it from I cloud-she put the breaks on it. I caught it Oct 7th. Not justifying what she did. It's just people here are making a huge deal about it.

If it was a PA that's way different. Then it would be another situation completely. She is working on forgiveness as well, so am I. It just takes time. No, she is holding nothing over my head either.


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## Tony Conrad

I think you are getting it right. You are both working on forgiveness. You for her emotional affair and her for your porn?

Some don't think it is a big deal to do porn but I disagree. Porn features in 50% of divorces these days and is a kind of mental adultery that militates against the intimacy of the marriage.

She has to work harder on forgiveness it seems but you have to show her repentance for it which I believe you have done by the sound of it. The trust will come back over time but it will take time. If you could convince her of that there may be a chance but don't undermine the damage porn and chat rooms can do to a marriage. It will help her to trust you again.


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## Fordsvt

I don't undermine what I did. It was wrong. Trust will take time for sure and I'm ready for that. 
We are looking at a winter vacation now. Just the two of us. I'm making changes in me for the better. 
We have to restructure the relationship. New boundaries and not go back to status quo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov

I read something yesterday.
"Forgiveness is discovering that what you thought happened, didn't --- that there was never anything to forgive. What seemed terrible changes once you question it. There is nothing terrible except your unquestioned thoughts about what YOU see".

Judgement is matching someone's action to your own personal beliefs. It's very difficult to question one's own beliefs.

Is it true? Can it be proven absolutely true? Most of us are afraid to even ASK and our own thoughts become the truth.

Deep down, the thought that keeps us from asking "is it true" is we believe that of course someone wronged us \ cheated on us. We believe we are not worthy anyways, which is the REAL thought behind it all.

Sorry, a bit heavy.


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## Conrad

deejov said:


> I read something yesterday.
> "Forgiveness is discovering that what you thought happened, didn't --- that there was never anything to forgive. What seemed terrible changes once you question it. There is nothing terrible except your unquestioned thoughts about what YOU see".
> 
> Judgement is matching someone's action to your own personal beliefs. It's very difficult to question one's own beliefs.
> 
> Is it true? Can it be proven absolutely true? Most of us are afraid to even ASK and our own thoughts become the truth.
> 
> Deep down, the thought that keeps us from asking "is it true" is we believe that of course someone wronged us \ cheated on us. We believe we are not worthy anyways, which is the REAL thought behind it all.
> 
> Sorry, a bit heavy.


DeMello puts it this way.

The problem is rarely where you think it is.

I've found that to be 100% true.


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## scatty

Did you turn to porn because you weren't having sex? Did she have the EA because she was being ignored emotionally? How is the communication? If I cut my man off sexually I wouldn't be surprised if he turned to porn. You probably need a good therapist with a plan to save your marriage. Not point fingers, just see if you two can recover.


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## Fordsvt

You are right on both counts. Her EA was not nearly as bad as I first thought. 
We are in both IC and MC. It's gone well and helped us both very much. I agree about not pointing fingers and blame. It's about starting a new normal and moving forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Chatroom porn, i.e., where you interact with live women online? That is cheating, don't kid yourself. You've been pouring money and emotions into web cam prostitutes. You should be happy that you have gone cold turkey.

Your wife may have disconnected first by denying you sex, but you EA'd first. She turned to another man when you indulged your addiction. You want to save your marriage. That is great. Don't separate.

Court your wife. If she accepts non sexual affection, hugs, cuddling, etc. Give them to her. Listen to her. Be more alpha but do not be a jerk. Keep working on communicating. Do not beg or demean yourself.


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## Fordsvt

As of now we are not separating. We have both decided to try and re connect. We are going to work on it. I'm very greatful for that. She has been happy with the changes I've made. So am I. 

Everything I did online was pure fantasy. No money prositutes no web cams either. Just online chat. She didn't sleep with the guy she met in NYC. I believe her. He did kiss her and she pushed him off. She just isn't the type. Our MC and IC is going well. There has been a lot of progress. Our sex lives has really picked up too. All from her initiating and stepping into my space.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3

Fordsvt said:


> As of now we are not separating. We have both decided to try and re connect. We are going to work on it. I'm very greatful for that. She has been happy with the changes I've made. So am I.
> 
> Everything I did online was pure fantasy. No money prositutes no web cams either. Just online chat. She didn't sleep with the guy she met in NYC. I believe her. He did kiss her and she pushed him off. She just isn't the type. Our MC and IC is going well. There has been a lot of progress. Our sex lives has really picked up too. All from her initiating and stepping into my space.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you!!! I hope it works out well for you... No one wants to live a life they don't want! I hope twenty-fourteen gives you your marriage back.

~sammy


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## Fordsvt

Thanks for the kind words Sammy. I hope it works out too. I realize it will take much work and commitment. I hope she is willing to do the same. 

It was her that moved first on me not moving out. I think as it got closer she saw the writing on wall in some way. It's surreal that she was the one who stated she was done in the beginning of Nov. I thought it was finished as she seemed adamant on this. I'd love to know what changed her mind?
Running my MAP?
The 180?
MC for both of us or the strides I made on myself in IC?


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## MelodyAnn

Lanister0 said:


> She withheld sex and had an affair, so you turned to online porn as a response to her lack of affection.
> Now SHE is having trouble forgiving YOU? ....


You got the order of this wrong. Read his original post. I know this thread has ended, but I couldn't resist commenting on your reply here. He said in his original post that he and his wife would have sex once a month. Therefore, he succumbed to online porn for YEARS. Then a couple of months back she had an EA. Don't assume EA means she was "in love" with the other man either (as you've mentioned elsewhere), it just means some degree of emotional involvement took place. Also, having online sex chats with _real _women (they are not internet robots writing back to you) definitely constitutes EA. People spend days to months building emotional sexual connections to people they chat with, and invest feelings and time they should be investing in their partner. And, turning to porn for sexual satisfaction as a substitute for sex with your monogamous partner is pseudo-PA, meaning it's a type of physical cheating. It's still behavior that betrays the monogamous bond with a spouse, and is therefore cheating. Only your spouse should be your source of sexual/ emotional fulfillment. Only your spouse should be your source of orgasm! If you think not, your understanding of monogamy is very different from most people. With all of the above, whether EA, PA, or porn, you are putting your emotional and physical energy into sexual/emotional excitement over someone other than your spouse. Your idea that online porn with "fake women", and online chatting with real women is not cheating is very oblique. It's all cheating to different degrees. If you do an online search on internet sex (meaning sexual communication between actual people over the internet), you will find that it is just as damaging to marriages as in-person physical cheating, causes similar broken trust, causes similar feelings of pain for the betrayed spouse, and is ending lots of marriages. Don't dismiss porn either, countless marriages are broken over it too. When we marry it is to be exclusive to our partner. Unless you both agree ahead of time that porn is OK, or agree ahead of time to be swingers and have sex with others, you are betraying marital trust.


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## Fordsvt

Yes I agree the porn was an infidelity too. It started two years before her EA. She knew about it for months before the EA happened. This is on me for sure. 
But I'm happy to say we are reconciling now. It's a process but it just takes time. We both want it to work. The sex has been amazing again. 12 times in the last 45 days. Wow. 
It's come a long way in two months. I'm very proud of both of us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MelodyAnn

Fordsvt said:


> Yes I agree the porn was an infidelity too. It started two years before her EA. She knew about it for months before the EA happened. This is on me for sure.
> But I'm happy to say we are reconciling now. It's a process but it just takes time. We both want it to work. The sex has been amazing again. 12 times in the last 45 days. Wow.
> It's come a long way in two months. I'm very proud of both of us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm very happy for both of you!! Very happy to hear you two are reconciling. I think it will work, since you have the _wisdom_ to accept what your mistakes were. The worst individuals in a relationship are those who cannot accept _accountability_ for their own mistakes or who try to _minimize_ the gravity of their mistakes. As far as the porn, you're completely correct, it's an infidelity, and don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. Most women whose spouses view porn find the practice extremely hurtful. We want you to pour your sexual and emotional energy into us, not into the women in porn. Also, sex in a relationship is supposed to be about intimacy and making a real connection with another human being; porn is an escape that trains your brain to separate all intimacy from sex. I think the heightened sex between you and your wife indicates a strengthened intimacy between you two. Keep it going! :smthumbup:


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## Fordsvt

I agree it's going in the right direction. Sex has picked up a lot as she is stepping back into my space. Will it continue ? I don't know. We are working on things and it's a process that can take six months or more. All I'm trying to do is meet her emotional needs right now. Taking it slow and steady. 

I think before I wanted to save this more than her. She seems to be coming around. As long as she doesn't contact her EA it will be fine. He wants nothing to do with her at all. Once I caught them I exposed all I knew. His cell work personal cell his wife's name and cell. His he adress and phone. I stated any more contact and his wife talks to me. We talked by voice and email. He wants zero to do with her. He swears he tried to kiss her and no sex happened. She the same. Wife was sharing a hotel room in Times Square with two other GFs. He was sharing with two buddies at a diff hotel and the GFs she was with say the same. One told him to F off as she was married. So it seems not much happened. I can tell if the wife is lying as she's a dead giveaway. We will see
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MelodyAnn

Fordsvt said:


> I agree it's going in the right direction. Sex has picked up a lot as she is stepping back into my space. Will it continue ? I don't know. We are working on things and it's a process that can take six months or more. All I'm trying to do is meet her emotional needs right now. Taking it slow and steady.
> 
> I think before I wanted to save this more than her. She seems to be coming around. As long as she doesn't contact her EA it will be fine. He wants nothing to do with her at all. Once I caught them I exposed all I knew. His cell work personal cell his wife's name and cell. His he adress and phone. I stated any more contact and his wife talks to me. We talked by voice and email. He wants zero to do with her. He swears he tried to kiss her and no sex happened. She the same. Wife was sharing a hotel room in Times Square with two other GFs. He was sharing with two buddies at a diff hotel and the GFs she was with say the same. One told him to F off as she was married. So it seems not much happened. I can tell if the wife is lying as she's a dead giveaway. We will see
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that all sounds like good news! Also, you are smart to create boundaries of "no contact' between your wife and EA guy. And smart to promise exposure to his wife if he tries to contact your wife. It's so important to have clear boundaries when it comes to expunging cheating. You are clear on the boundary vs. porn and internet sex/chats, and your wife is clear on the boundary vs. EA person. Now that boundaries have been clearly set, all of that stuff can hopefully be put behind you and you can both concentrate on healing and rebuilding the relationship .


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## Fordsvt

I hope so. I really do. Thanks for all the good words. Now we need hard work to make it happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppyseed

nogutsnoglory said:


> *Your situation is not adding up to me.*
> Your wife had an affair, you looked at porn and chat rooms.
> 
> I can see her valid point in being hurt but a bit of perspective as to the logic is needed.


Hi I wondered as well.

But if he did take it things further by meeting up with other women - her reaction is understandable.

Hope things continue to go well.


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## Fordsvt

I didn't meet with anyone. It was all online. Not excusing what I did. It was so wrong. 
Of late I've found her creeping on the EAs Facebook acct again. I'm worried. This may not be over yet. Also found her looking at condos this am online. 
Will this ever end?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator

Hope1964 said:


> *Forgiveness is not the same as moving past something. If your wife ever does 'forgive' you, she will have done so for herself. She needs to find that path, not you.*
> 
> *Truer words were never spoken!*


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## Fordsvt

Very true and great quote too
I guess time will tell. Not sure what to think really. I guess doubt sets in Somedays.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MelodyAnn

Fordsvt said:


> I didn't meet with anyone. It was all online. Not excusing what I did. It was so wrong.
> Of late I've found her creeping on the EAs Facebook acct again. I'm worried. This may not be over yet. Also found her looking at condos this am online.
> Will this ever end?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry to hear that she is looking at his FB page. She's still curious about him it seems. My suggestions: You should sit down and talk to her about this. If you are not comfortable with it, as I can imagine you're not, tell her you are not comfortable with it, and make it an explicit part of the boundary you are setting. Are they still FB 'friends'? Ask her to drop the FB connection, and see if she is willing. You have to be very explicit or clear about the boundaries you want for both you and her.

Also have a talk with her about the condos. Is she looking for her own place? I'm not quite clear what you mean. Or, did you typo condoms? Sorry, if I sound ignorant, but I think they sell those online too. Both condos/condoms raise significant questions, so don't be afraid to ask her


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## Fordsvt

They are not FB friends since she was caught in October. There has been no contact. When I outed them he wants nothing to do with us. The condos not sure. Perhaps she has doubts some days too. We are both insecure and fragile right now. Going to wait it out and not question it yet. She looks at the FB page about once per month.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MelodyAnn

Fordsvt said:


> They are not FB friends since she was caught in October. There has been no contact. When I outed them he wants nothing to do with us. The condos not sure. Perhaps she has doubts some days too. We are both insecure and fragile right now. Going to wait it out and not question it yet. She looks at the FB page about once per month.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's perfectly normal for two people recovering from their spouse's mutual infidelities to have doubts some days. I agree with your waiting it out, and staying the course of reconciliation for now. Hopefully, things will smooth out!


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## Fordsvt

Still waiting it out...nothing so far. Being patient is the key. 
If anything is happening, it will pop up sooner than later


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## wilderness

Don't move out of your home, no matter what you do.


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## yeah_right

My H blocked his EA skank on FB. That's part of the deal. NC means NC in every way.


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## MelodyAnn

Fordsvt said:


> Still waiting it out...nothing so far. Being patient is the key.
> If anything is happening, it will pop up sooner than later


Good idea. Also, I'm sorry if I don't recall if you already mentioned marital counseling. Are you two pursuing that? Hopefully, it can help with the healing and recovery from infidelity, and the multiple trust issues that arise.


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## Fordsvt

Yes we are in MC-haven't been since Dec 6th. I'm sill in IC as well. I'm going to see how the trip goes here and plan to attend MC with her in March


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## Betrayedone

I would insist she cancel her entire Facebook account! Period. That place is dangerous to marriages.


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## Fordsvt

She's not doing anything wrong on FB so I'm not worried. Transperancy is good yes and we have that. 
Like I said before. If she's doing something wrong on anything media it will show up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Blunt

*



Of late I've found her creeping on the EAs Facebook acct again.
She looks at the FB page about once per month.

Click to expand...

**That does not show 100% commitment to your R!!!*
That action by her is very disrepectful of the R and of you!
How would she like it if you looked at your porn site once a month?

Do not compromise out of weakness. Just because you were guilty of porn stuff in the past does not mean that you have to tolerate your wife looking at the EA’s face book acct. *Demand immediate corrective action and if appropriate give her some consequences.*You are not looking at any of the porn stuff that hurt your marriage and she has no business looking at the OM’s facebook account!


*Get yourself in a more self sufficient position just in case your wife ruins all the progress you both have made.* She has not forgiven you even though you have forgiven her. She has not complexly turned away from the source of her damaging actions in the past. *Her actions do not show true remorse or an ability to forgive. That seems very dangerous to me.*


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## Fordsvt

Your very correct. But I'm watching everything. If this flares up again I want intel first. I agree with you 100$. I have no proof of contact for months. 
I don't want her to detect I'm watching. Or my sources either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

*Re: Forgiveness. How? UPDATE..*

UPDATE

Well, we went to Cancun and things went well. Things at home have been good too. We've been getting along and moving ahead. Just some points to consider:

-There has been no contact with the EA or anthing like it.
-No BS on Facebook
-She seems quite happy
-We spend quality time together.
-Sex was great in Dec, Jan, Feb.
-Her gyno put her on the pill (low dosage) to control heavy flow and pain during that time of the month.
-Sex life has crashed since. I did some research and this is normal for 40% of females. Just bad timing for us. 

I guess for now I will wait and see. I'm still watching from afar but I've come up with zero so I'm glad about that.
She has stated she wants a future with us over the past few months. It's gone well. I'm slowly starting to believe I guess. We will see.....


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## Kevinb

Fingers crossed for you Mate


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## Fordsvt

I will. So far so good. We will see I guess. 
Time will tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MelodyAnn

It's always great to see a happy outcome. Hope things are still going well for you two!


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## Fordsvt

So far things are gong pretty good._t was looking bleak last year but we've both been trying hard so its good so far.
We are going to Disney with the kids this November too_


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## MelodyAnn

Aww, that's just awesome!! It's great when hard work pays off! I didn't know you guys have kids too - all the more reason to work hard to make things work. I'm so happy for you! Have a great time in Disney .


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## Fordsvt

Yes, it's been a breathe of fresh air to say the least. I agree about working it all out. But I could not stay together just for the kids and be unhappy for years to come. 
It's a tough call but I don't think I'd could do that? Perhaps 5 more years then my youngest is 16. 
Not working that way now. It's been good to date and seems to be getting better.


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## MelodyAnn

That's great news! I didn't mean to suggest staying in a marriage that is unhappy for the kids' sake. I meant that the kids are an important reason to do 'whatever it takes' to make it a happy one. Kids typically benefit from their parents being together, but not when the marriage is very unhealthy. 'Whatever it takes' could include counseling, talking things through with the spouse, going on a trip without the kids, etc. And if nothing works to make a marriage healthy and happy, then the kids might do better with their parents apart. For you, I'm glad things are good and improving in the marriage .


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