# I'm a big hot mess (all about me)



## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

This is basically all about me..so not sure if this is in the right forum or not.

I have a history of finding women that are the worst for me. They seem to be really good women for awhile and then everything changes on me. I've never had a good break up if there is such a thing. They've all ended the same way. I get cheated on. I'm 37 and have had 3 serious relationships. I've been in counseling before for depression but it never really seemed to help me at all. 

The first was long distance and she cheated on me after about 6 months and got pregnant by the guy. She broke up with him within a few months after the baby was born and we gave it another shot. It lasted about a month and she went back to him. I haven't talked to her since.

My ex wife. We had a difficult dating experience but then after about 2 years of everything seemingly good we got married. The very day after we got married she went and seen her ex boyfriend. Nothing happened (I know that for a fact) but it still took a toll on me. A few months went by and she started emailing him again. She never went to see him she would just email him about how she wished things had been different. I called her on it and she stopped talking to him. When we the 2 year mark..she cheated on me with a coworker and moved out. I started working towards the divorce and she started talking to me and we ended up back together...for a year and she cheated again.

Fast forward 2 years and I met my most current ex. We were together for 3 years. She had a variety of problems. I found out after about a year and a half that she wasn't over an ex boyfriend she had several years before but the ex is now happily married. At about 2 years she left me for a friend of hers. She was "in love" with him but he was using her for sex.They are still friends. We ended up back together again. After about a year she moved out (3 year mark) saying she needed to work on herself. After about a month she text me and we started talking again. We started seeing each other again. We weren't dating but yet we did everything that a couple does. After a little bit she quit talking to me and I found out it's because she had just met a new guy about a month ago now. We still talk. However,she says we will not be back together and she's "in love" with the new guy. So now I sit plaguing myself with the thoughts of them together. 

Yet here I sit with the knowledge that I can't go back to her but yet I also know that if the opportunity presented itself that I would.

It's like I sit here and I give them every bit of me and every bit of all the love I have and say here squish my self esteem and while you're at it go ahead and prove again that I'm not good enough for anyone. 

What is wrong with me? Has anyone else been in this type of situation? If so how did you recover from it? 

I feel like I'm halfway going to lose my mind. I just want to be happy and in love but I keep finding these women that are just abusive..and apparently I'm a door mat but I don't know how to change myself. It's just getting to the point where I hate being me. I don't want to be like this but I don't know what else to be other than me.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Your "picker" is broken. Get counseling for this. 

We don't know why. You might get alot of people guessing at what your problem is... that can't be helpful. Find a therapist that you trust and can relate to. 

Do some self-improvement research. Read stuff.(I don't know any titles to recommend, but I bet someone will post some.)

Find a hobby that you love. Lay off the women for awhile and find happiness with yourself and your life, while you get therapy to figure out how to pick 'em.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Seems to me that you are choosing women who really aren't available to you in the first place.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

SunnyT said:


> Your "picker" is broken. Get counseling for this.
> 
> We don't know why. You might get alot of people guessing at what your problem is... that can't be helpful. Find a therapist that you trust and can relate to.
> 
> ...


My picker is broken. That kind of cracked me up 

I've been reading a couple of different books. I read codependent no more not too long ago and trying to read No Mr Nice Guy. If those are the one's I need to read I dunno but I have been.

I definitely need to get back into therapy but trying to find a good one is a challenge. 

I did have hobbies that I just haven't really enjoyed doing them lately


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> Seems to me that you are choosing women who really aren't available to you in the first place.


Which is one of the problems in figuring out which ones are actually ready and which one's are only giving the appearance of being ready


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

G'day Gluk,

Mate, you are screaming low self esteem/confidence to me. With all three women, the story rings the same to me. You met a woman, she decided to cheat or leave, then the guy kicks her out and you take her back. I want to know, how the fcuk did your second wife go see her ex the day after the wedding. Where you not on honeymoon? I would have had a bag packed for her on her return if that were me. Absolutely no good reason for her to visit the ex in these circumstances. You say that nothing happened and that you know that for a fact....... so you're saying that you were in the same room as them were you!!!

This is the way that I see it. These women obviously have poor values, but in saying that. I think that you need to be able to keep someone interested in you romantically for the relationship to survive. If you can't do that then the only reason that your woman is going to stay faithful is due to morals. What you should be doing (if you were a self respecting man) is when ever some one leaves you or cheats on you and start talking to you again, you reject them. You tell them nicely that is is great to hear from them but that you don't date trash women. "So sorry sweetie, but you're not good enough for me, on only date women with morals".

You see, if you allow sh!t like this to happen (forgiving infidelity), it probably means that in other areas in the relationship you're also a push over. If you had more self worth, you would not think that you could get any better woman than the table scraps that you have had. I would stay single if I were you. Work out and get some muscle, get an interesting life. Most importantly, when you start to date again, have very little tolerance for any bullsh!t. Set the tone for the relationship from the begging. You still might get cheated on but the chances are less likely. No body wants to be somebody else s safety net.

Good luck
Gonecrazy


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You clearly have issues with self-worth and setting boundaries. We teach others how to treat us. If you act like a doormat then you will be treated like one. 
They all cheated on you and you took them back, swept it under the rug until it happened again. What made you think that you were not worth more, that this treatment of you was acceptable? 

Do you get 'bullied' at work, made to work late, do other people's jobs, etc or is this just in relationships?
I suggest you get yourself a good therapist to explore why you allow this and secondly to learn strategies to stop being a doormat.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

What all my pals here have said. You sound like a sweet guy and self aware. Good luck and best wishes.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

The pattern I see in your post is that each woman set off red flags that you ignored or forgave too easily. 

I'm no therapist (and you should definitely get professional help to learn about yourself) but I'd try to start 1.) determining your boundaries (what is and is not acceptable in a partners behavior) and 2.) accepting no less than a woman who can show with her consistent actions that she can meet your boundaries (and you can meet hers).


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

aine said:


> You clearly have issues with self-worth and setting boundaries. We teach others how to treat us. If you act like a doormat then you will be treated like one.
> They all cheated on you and you took them back, swept it under the rug until it happened again. What made you think that you were not worth more, that this treatment of you was acceptable?
> 
> Do you get 'bullied' at work, made to work late, do other people's jobs, etc or is this just in relationships?
> I suggest you get yourself a good therapist to explore why you allow this and secondly to learn strategies to stop being a doormat.


It's really just in relationships. When I'm around my group of friends I'm considered to be more of an alpha male. I got bullied at school and in my home as a kid but other than that I never really had any issues on that end.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

intheory said:


> Gluk
> 
> Did your counselor, or doctor ever suggest anti-depressants? Maybe you should try one to see if it might help you.
> 
> ...


He did. He tried me on several different antidepressants but none of them ever really seemed to work. Over time and several different anti depressants I got agitated with nothing working and quit going. I'm doing my research now trying to find a competent psychiatrist. 

To be honest,when they left I can't honestly say why I would feel so compelled to be with them. It's like they become everything and the rest of my world is built around them. Then when they are gone I can no longer focus on my hobbies. 

In the beginning,as with all of them,they seemed liked your average people that had their sh!t together but as the relationship progressed and all their problems started to emerge well then it became an obligation. I can't very well not help someone in distress. Which that part doesn't just pertain to someone that I'm with. It's even in my group of friends and my families. I'll try to carry their burdens till I collapse. 

That's the thing with whatever is going on with me. I know it's ridiculous to go back but it's like I'm incomplete and there's this big void that they took up that it empty that I have nothing to fill it with.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

Satya said:


> The pattern I see in your post is that each woman set off red flags that you ignored or forgave too easily.
> 
> I'm no therapist (and you should definitely get professional help to learn about yourself) but I'd try to start 1.) determining your boundaries (what is and is not acceptable in a partners behavior) and 2.) accepting no less than a woman who can show with her consistent actions that she can meet your boundaries (and you can meet hers).


I think the boundaries is one of the areas I have trouble with. Like with my current ex..I was told consistently for the longest time that I was everything that she wanted in a mate,that she wanted to marry me one day..then closer to the break up she went around telling her friends,mutual friends and myself that we were never supposed to be long term that she knew from the beginning that we were only temporary.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

It sounds like you tend to find a woman who says she wants you, then stick with her even if things are bad early on. You may be forgetting that while dating, in addition to her deciding if you are someone who meets her needs, you should be deciding if she's someone who meets your needs. Dating is about figuring out if you are right for her, _and_ if she is right for you. It shouldn't be about being validated, by being chosen, by a woman no matter what she does or how many problems she has. 

A good therapist should be able to help you improve your self-esteem, establish boundaries for yourself, and recognize that dating is as much about choosing as being chosen.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

And having read your posts, and the responses, and knowing what my own weaknesses are, it wouldn't hurt to clarify what you think commitment is. I thought I was acting on my vows and my commitment to my h when some surgery made him go batsh!t crazy and go looking for the OW; I thought he was having a mental issue but really Peter Pan just didn't want to accept mortality and aging and thought that a woman 20 years younger with a young kid would roll back the clock. It took me a long time to figure out his real issues, AND mine, and one of mine was that I was prepared to keep wearing the blinders, the rose-colored glasses, and attribute his problems to anything other than, well, his problems. Commitment works when a relationship begins in a healthy fashion, can see it through some tough times, but if a person is NOT healthy and is just putting on a show (like telling you that you're the one, she wants you, and is telling her friends you're only temporary) and finally realizes they can't keep up the facade, there's nothing there to remain committed to. 

Hang in friend.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

Rowan said:


> It sounds like you tend to find a woman who says she wants you, then stick with her even if things are bad early on. You may be forgetting that while dating, in addition to her deciding if you are someone who meets her needs, you should be deciding if she's someone who meets your needs. Dating is about figuring out if you are right for her, _and_ if she is right for you. It shouldn't be about being validated, by being chosen, by a woman no matter what she does or how many problems she has.
> 
> A good therapist should be able to help you improve your self-esteem, establish boundaries for yourself, and recognize that dating is as much about choosing as being chosen.


I do. Normally the problem appears to be something so minor and appears to work out that I don't see that it's actually something big and they just hid how big of an issue it actually is.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> And having read your posts, and the responses, and knowing what my own weaknesses are, it wouldn't hurt to clarify what you think commitment is. I thought I was acting on my vows and my commitment to my h when some surgery made him go batsh!t crazy and go looking for the OW; I thought he was having a mental issue but really Peter Pan just didn't want to accept mortality and aging and thought that a woman 20 years younger with a young kid would roll back the clock. It took me a long time to figure out his real issues, AND mine, and one of mine was that I was prepared to keep wearing the blinders, the rose-colored glasses, and attribute his problems to anything other than, well, his problems. Commitment works when a relationship begins in a healthy fashion, can see it through some tough times, but if a person is NOT healthy and is just putting on a show (like telling you that you're the one, she wants you, and is telling her friends you're only temporary) and finally realizes they can't keep up the facade, there's nothing there to remain committed to.
> 
> Hang in friend.


To me personally,relationship commitment is basically two people who have decided that they want to be together working towards a more long term standing. 

And so sorry that happened! That doesn't even begin to sound like something easy to deal with!


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Thanks. It's been really rough. I think a commitment is exactly what you describe, and ironically, it was my husband who wanted us to get married after 11 years together. We made it a total of 20, with 9 years married, about half way. I think he knew he was having issues, mentally and physically, and felt it was important to formalize things, and also wanted to keep me close. But his health issues kept coming, one after another, and overwhelmed him and got the better of him. I don't hate him, I feel a lot of compassion for him, but it's just not what I expected it would be. Maybe THIS will help you; I realized this morning that I had placed too much confidence and too much faith in the idea that love conquers all. It doesn't; good and great relationships sometimes don't survive a lot of things, like poor health or toxic work environments or any number of things. But the best chance of survival is a good foundation, and what I've decided to tell friends and family going forward is that it really IS important to make people earn your trust, and not give it away too quickly. There are plenty of chances later that they'll step all in it . . . ;(


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

Love conquers all. That's pretty much my thought. I've always known in my head that it doesn't but same time I want to believe in it. I want to believe that there is this perfect person for everybody out there but I think the truth is that there isn't. I have this wrong belief that when I love someone this intensely that it has to be right. Another character flaw is I let certain TV shows contribute to my line of thinking. There is one in particular called Scrubs and one of the characters on there says 

"Relationships don’t work the way they do on television and in the movies: Will they, won’t they, and then they finally do and they’re happy forever - gimme a break. Nine out of ten of them end because they weren’t right for each other to begin with, and half the ones that get married get divorced anyway. And I’m telling you right now, through all this stuff, I have not become a cynic, I haven’t. Yes, I do happen to believe that love is mainly about pushing chocolate-covered candies and, you know, in some cultures, a chicken. You can call me a sucker, I don’t care, ‘cause I do…believe in it. Bottom line…is the couples that are truly right for each other wade through the same crap as everybody else, but the big difference is, they don’t let it take ‘em down. One of those two people will stand up and fight for that relationship every time - if it's right. And if they're real lucky one of them will say something."

Which in reality I know it's a TV show so what does it really know,right? The other side of me says "hey you stand up and fight for them and you fight ferociously..shouldn't it be right?" 

My current ex..I don't think she will ever be happy. I don't want her to be unhappy but I think she will always find something wrong once the new and shiny wears off. Her and I (at the time) were both passionate people. We met one day spent an hour talking. I got her number and that night went to her house and we stayed up talking all night. We did move too fast though. We had sex on the first night..which I learned later on that she often times puts out the first night. She used to that sex was the one time she felt like she could just be herself. Over the relationship,I learned that she had a lot of medical issues,unrealistic idea of what romance is..she always thought couples were supposed to act like in The Addams Family. 

That is really good advice though. Make someone earn your trust


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Gluk said:


> To be honest,when they left I can't honestly say why I would feel so compelled to be with them. It's like they become everything and the rest of my world is built around them. Then when they are gone I can no longer focus on my hobbies.


I'll tell you a story. My DD25 is beautiful, outgoing, petite, a great catch for a guy. She knows it. So she has no trouble setting VERY high standards with guys and she has no trouble LEAVING relationships where the guy tramples on her boundaries/standards. One guy took a nap and didn't wake up in time for their first date; she gave him a second chance. He overslept again! When he tried to ask her to reschedule, she just said 'you know, it's clear I'm not much of a priority for you, so I'm going to say no thanks.' And she never went out with him. She had a boundary - treat me with respect - and he blew that boundary so she enacted her consequence - you don't get to have 'me.' And she never looked back.

She KNOWS her worth and she refuses to waste it on guys who treat her badly. Which is what you should be doing, of course: any girl you date who ignores you, guilts you, yells at you, cheats on you...adios. DO you do that?

Now, the funny thing is that she has had _friend _problems her whole life. And not of her own making. Long story, but she had tons of friends in elementary school, and then something happened and she virtually lost all of her friends but one for something out of her control. And it really affected her. In 6th grade, she was outright ostracized. NO friends. So we moved in 7th grade, and she started out being really popular in the new school - until a girl got jealous and started tearing her down and getting others to go along with her. In high school, she went through the same thing again with a new girl who went the Mean Girls route; girls were asked to choose sides. All in all, she never ever found a REAL best friend, because of all these things working against her. 

So now, as an adult, she has a REALLY hard time saying no to friends, or standing up to them, or telling them the truth if they hurt her. She lets them stomp all over her because she's afraid they'll decide they just don't need her and will throw her away.

Completely different from how she is with potential boyfriends. Why? Because she knows her worth when it comes to whether a guy will value her and respect her. But when it comes to the girls, her childhood experiences have trashed her belief in herself, her self worth, so she finds she simply can't stand up to them.

Do you see the difference? SOMEthing in your childhood taught you that women wouldn't value you. So you subconsciously sought out women who wouldn't value you just like the girls my DD25 keeps making friends with.

So the only TRUE solution here is for you to work on yourself. Improve your self esteem, learn to love yourself, KNOW you have something to offer, and when you go out with someone who treats you poorly...walk.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Gluk said:


> To me personally,relationship commitment is basically two people who have decided that they want to be together working towards a more long term standing.


If you want a good book to read about this, read Getting The Love You Want. It explains that dysfunctional people (most of us) will seek out a person who is a duplicate personality-wise of our most dysfunctional parent, the one who hurt us the most, because we want our new partner, who is like our parent, to NOT do the harmful things our parent did; in short, to ERASE the hurt and pain our parent caused us by being LIKE our parent but then not doing the harmful thing.

The problem is that dysfunctional people seek out dysfunctional people. So, just like YOU are wanting your partner to erase your parent's pain, your PARTNER is also wanting you to do the same for THEM. And, after time, you both start realizing the other person isn't going to be doing that, resentments come in, you start looking around for another person or else you start getting super needy (when you have low self esteem) and clingy.

Recipe for disaster.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> Do you see the difference? SOMEthing in your childhood taught you that women wouldn't value you. So you subconsciously sought out women who wouldn't value you just like the girls my DD25 keeps making friends with.


This. When you put it in that format. I know exactly what it is. It's my mother. She's a lot better nowadays now that she has gotten older. My mother grew up with a drunk,verbally abusive mother and never knew how to break the cycle. 

Thank you for the story. I can totally relate to it! Reversed roles obviously but I get it completely.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> If you want a good book to read about this, read Getting The Love You Want. It explains that dysfunctional people (most of us) will seek out a person who is a duplicate personality-wise of our most dysfunctional parent, the one who hurt us the most, because we want our new partner, who is like our parent, to NOT do the harmful things our parent did; in short, to ERASE the hurt and pain our parent caused us by being LIKE our parent but then not doing the harmful thing.
> 
> The problem is that dysfunctional people seek out dysfunctional people. So, just like YOU are wanting your partner to erase your parent's pain, your PARTNER is also wanting you to do the same for THEM. And, after time, you both start realizing the other person isn't going to be doing that, resentments come in, you start looking around for another person or else you start getting super needy (when you have low self esteem) and clingy.
> 
> Recipe for disaster.


When it starts going bad. That's me. Super needy and clingy. 

That actually makes a lot of sense. The 3 relationships I talked about all had conflicts with their parents. The first..her mom was overbearing and didn't let her do anything. My ex wife. Her dad was a drunk and verbally abusive. My current ex. Her mom basically controlled her for most of her life and continues to do so to this day. 

And I'm always up for a good book! I love to read.I'll go look it up on Amazon right now! Thanks


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Gluk said:


> This. When you put it in that format. I know exactly what it is. It's my mother. She's a lot better nowadays now that she has gotten older. My mother grew up with a drunk,verbally abusive mother and never knew how to break the cycle.
> 
> Thank you for the story. I can totally relate to it! Reversed roles obviously but I get it completely.


I'm convinced that for my h it is his mother too. The OW would break up with him, and if he went anywhere other than here to me, she would leave him alone, but she would chase him in a day or two, constant texting or emailing. And one time I was in another country halfway across the world and they had a violent fight and he landed in jail and there was a restraining order against the two of them having contact, but she texted him like crazy. After he had his meltdown, I started observing him and his mother and their interaction. When she wanted to hear from him, she'd start out seductively, reaching out and saying she was thinking of him, how was he, and then if he didn't call right away, her emails would get more urgent and then she would get nasty. One weekend, he was so excited about something he was doing and finding out, after one of these episodes where she had reeled him in, he'd call her and she'd act like she was too busy or too distracted or he was a nuisance. And she told me once that his grandmother spoiled him (he IS spoiled) and that she fought his grandmother over who was the real authority figure, so for much of his life, women fought over him. It drove him crazy when he told me about OW and I said, oh, okay, have a nice life. We were both supposed to chase, I guess. 

Yeah, moms can do a number on their sons. And my dysfunctional family was nothing to write home about either. But that's a subject for another thread. 

I was never taught to set boundaries. I was realizing yesterday, after reading at length here, that I was taught exactly the opposite; do what people want you to do, no matter what is derails in the way of your own goals or plans. And I remember one time being angry about something and my mother came into my room and screamed at me and said, you have NO right to be angry about ANYthing, ever. 

Yeah, like I said . . . I left my home state in my 20s, and when I was back there a couple of weeks ago for my mother's funeral, I didn't recognize the woman being described. But she had grown and changed and moved on and I'd been gone for 20+years. It was very interesting, because the woman being described wasn't the woman I recognized as my mother. But I was happy for her that she found meaning and balance in life, and made a great contribution. So like your mom, she was better later. I think having kids puts a lot of pressure on people and I am glad I didn't have any (deliberately, so I wouldn't pass on the dysfunction).


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

That's me. I never wanted kids on my own simply because I remember my own childhood and just honestly want my own bloodline to not continue. I'll date a woman with kids. My ex has kids and gees I loved those two girls. Which is one of the things I always told my ex. You have to be careful. When you leave a man..he's losing 3 ppl. It's not just one. 

That's crazy! Certainly sounds like he wanted you both to chase after him. It's an awfully good thing you didn't. Sounds like he had himself in a bit of a cycle. I don't get her mentality though. What was the point of reeling him in if she didn't really want him? Just to know that she could? 


Wow! I cant even begin to imagine being told that I can't be angry. I mean how does one not do something that is in our nature? Which sometimes I wonder if that's part of my problem. That I am just really angry. I never learned how to express it in a more vocal way. Which turned it into good writing material but writing something that most don't really understand isn't useful when you're trying to convey what is going on with you internally. 

Like I said,my mother is completely different now. She went from being an angry woman to a person now that honestly has become a doormat. How one just completely reverses like that I have no idea. 

One of the things I'm doing is trying to keep a log of everything that I think of that affects me (past and present) so I can show it to my psychiatrist when I find one so maybe he will kind of see where I'm coming from and later I don't go.."oh! I forgot to tell him/her this"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Gluk said:


> I do. Normally the problem appears to be something so minor and appears to work out that I don't see that it's actually something big and they just hid how big of an issue it actually is.


Here's how you solve that (and it comes from a therapist): Write out what you want in a woman. Write out what you don't want to put up with. Keep that list in your wallet. Read it every so often so it becomes memorized. When you go out with someone and you FEEL weird about how the date went, pull out the list and look and see if something happened that is on that list of what you don't want to put up with. If it's there, decide to either give the person ONE more chance, or never see her again. But NEVER give her more than two chances. 

That's how you work through the bad people and weed them out. What you have left are the people who treat you well.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> Here's how you solve that (and it comes from a therapist): Write out what you want in a woman. Write out what you don't want to put up with. Keep that list in your wallet. Read it every so often so it becomes memorized. When you go out with someone and you FEEL weird about how the date went, pull out the list and look and see if something happened that is on that list of what you don't want to put up with. If it's there, decide to either give the person ONE more chance, or never see her again. But NEVER give her more than two chances.
> 
> That's how you work through the bad people and weed them out. What you have left are the people who treat you well.


huh. that's a pretty good idea. Since I don't have any plans to date any for quite awhile I have plenty of time to figure out exactly what I want. I need to take a much needed break anyways for myself. It's getting hard to tell what I really want out of a partner outside of somehow who is just as crazy about me as I am them. The hard part is combating the loneliness.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Volunteering is the number one cure for that. Helps others, fills your time, makes it easy to meet other people to make new friends, makes YOU feel great about yourself, and looks great on your resume.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

My h is currently with an OW who has an 11-year-old son and two grown children, all dysfunctional. He is a rescuer. He thinks he can fix the OW's every problem, and yes, I do think she doesn't want HIM, she wants his retirement check and wants to win, to pull him away from me. Now that she's won, I'm really curious what will hold them together since they no longer have me as a common enemy. When he first told me about OW and said it was short-term and he was sorry, we separated for a while and he had an apartment but he couldn't manage on his own, had never been alone in his life, so I also agree with Turnera that finding ways to be on your own and be involved in activities that help you learn about yourself and expand your horizons is a really good idea. I tried to get my h involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters to help kids in TRUE need in between trips to see his grandkids, but he wasn't interested. 

Her first husband cheated on her, she was married two more times, once for about a year, and then she had a kid thinking she'd trap the baby daddy, but he was too smart for that. He sent her packing and pays child support, which makes her house payment, but she has never wanted to work. I work and make decent money so when the divorce is final, hell, already, he won't have any money to spend on her. When he was home, he was cheap. He liked to eat out, as I do on occasion, but I could tell that our comfortable life style ate at him because OW acted all deprived, but she could have gone to college when her kid was at school, and she was free all day to work and the state paid for after school care. But her father abandoned the family when she was 12, and in the nasty voice mails she's left me, she sounds 12. She's the same age as our DIL, and people have often confused my h for her father and the kid's grandfather. So a 58-year-old guy with a woman the emotional age of 12, it's icky. Each of them is trying to solve their problems in really unhealthy ways. I think it is great you are having this wake-up call now at this stage in your life. 

So I agree with Turnera; what do you want in a HEALTHY woman? My h, after he cracked up from a horrific medical experience, went into rescue mode. And I think it is a great thing to write things down the things that affect you, past and present, for your therapist. You're young and you can get this under control, especially since you're so self aware now. My h was in the military for 20 years and moved every two, and then was in contracting for ten years, in one place for 9 years (where I met him and was with him for five years), and after that, he tended to get moved again every two years. He came to believe that the solution to his problem was just to relocate. And he went into the military at 19 because his first kid was on the way; he sort of let structure be external to him, and let circumstances shape his life. You're smart enough and young enough and determined enough to get ahead of this in time to have a really great life.

Good luck!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Like others, Gluk, I think you have a major problem with boundaries.

Some people learn what they need and enforce their boundaries -- unapologetically -- from a very young age.

People like me who were taught to share, give other people the benefit of the doubt, a second chance and so on, or just made to believe that others will ultimately do the right thing. I don't trust anyone any more these days, and I am happier for it.

I'll give you an example. I used to have a problem with both my sister and my parents meddling in my relationships with friends and men that I dated. There are some people who get off on triangulating. That is, playing relationships off of one another. So someone whom I consider a friend will then consider my sister or my mother a friend as well. And then there will be these 3 way conversations, ie "I heard about you....." "And why would you do that....." "And if you continue to do that, nobody is going to like you" and so on......

I remember talking with someone who claimed that she had the same problem, ie a mother who did not have good boundaries with people her daughter associated with. She told me that any friend who contacts her parents directly is immediately excised from her life.

At first I thought, wow. Can you do that? Is that really fair and so on. Until I realised, that one, being friends with my parents is not like oxygen. I am not preventing anyone from living. And two, it's not that I tell people that they can't do that, it's that either 1) I choose friends who don't have the need to create drama among other people's family members or 2) I physically keep my friends and family apart from one another which is easy since I don't live in the same city as they do.

I am also glad that my husband does not need to be chummy with any of my family members as some ex boyfriends have been.

And so it goes. I am comfortable with this boundary for a couple of reasons 1) I know now from bitter experience nothing good will come from anyone who tries to play me off one of my family members 2) there are a lot of people out there who just don't get into that.

Gluk, maybe you were like me. I felt that I didn't make friends easily at one time. that's why I gave some people a long rope -- with which to hang me. 

nowadays, I am very comfortable with many of my boundaries and if someone has a problem with even one of them, my assumption is that they are a troublemaker anyway.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Everyone here has excellent points and you seem very willing to digest these and improve yourself.

One thing that stuck out to me is your need to be with someone and losing enjoyment of things when you are without a significant other. 

So I suggest, while working on counseling and figuring out what you really want and learning to let go when it's NOT what you want, is being OK alone. When you are OK with being alone, you won't stay for the wrong reasons. Are you bored with your hobbies? Are you lonely? You need to fill your days and evenings with things that are interesting to you - and make you interesting! 

Does your home feel lonely after work? Get a pet to come home to. Have lights and TV on a timer so it's not dark and quiet when you come home. Take a class just because you've always wanted to learn how to make pottery. Join Meet Up and go to some activities. Set some goals and go to the gym. Join Toast Masters. Go out to eat alone, to a movie alone, for a walk alone... You can be alone without being lonely. You really need to differentiate the two and become comfortable with that.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Everyone here has excellent points and you seem very willing to digest these and improve yourself.
> 
> One thing that stuck out to me is your need to be with someone and losing enjoyment of things when you are without a significant other.
> 
> ...


Hello and thank you for your reply

I actually scheduled an appointment for a therapist today that I will see towards the end of the month. Really nervous about going. He's liable to think I'm a complete nutcase and say "yeah,let's just go ahead and straight jacket you"

I'm trying to find something that will force me to be around other people. I have a lot of trouble with social interactions and when I'm not at work I'm usually alone. Unless you want to count the little four legged hairball that likes to grunt at me constantly as he begs for more attention. 

I spent most of this evening cleaning house and repainting my kitchen. If I can just keep my mind busy I won't sit here and think about things quite so much. 

You are absolutely right though. I do need to figure out how to be alone without being lonely. It's just that on the rare occasions when I do go out to a movie or something by myself,I just feel like a huge loser and everyone is looking at me and thinking the same thing. So because of that I don't do a whole lot on my own and unfortunately my friends have varying work schedules and family that makes it a bit difficult to get together and do things.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> Like others, Gluk, I think you have a major problem with boundaries.
> 
> Some people learn what they need and enforce their boundaries -- unapologetically -- from a very young age.
> 
> ...


I realize it's not your point but I can't really remember ever being taught to share or anything like that. I didn't really have a male figure in my life. Sure,I have a dad and my parents are still married but he always worked 2 jobs and had a side business he did whenever he had time that we didn't see a whole lot of him.

For me personally,in my personal relationships I had more of a problem basically being told that I wasn't good enough for the person I was with or how surprising it was that I could get someone who was as "pretty" or "sweet" as whoever I was dating. So I kind of adapted a minimum of one year before I introduced them and even after that the interaction with them is kept at a minimum. 

I do find that I become a doormat even for the person I am with's family. Such as my current ex. There was many times I was asked by her mother if could go pick her up a bottle of Nyquil or something like that because she was already dressed for bed and didn't want to get out. My ex knew I didn't really want too but I would feel a bit pressured to do so because if I didn't then she would and then there would be a bit of an argument because she didn't want to do so either. 

I need to adopt more of a policy like that. I have a small group of friends and they all like me. Typically though,I am more of the advice giver in my group of friends. Which is odd because around my friends I am more of an alpha male than I am in my relationships. Around them I am often times referred to as a "loveable as*hole" Simply because I am very straightforward in how things should be done. It's always much easier to see what is going on in other people's relationships while mine are usually pretty dysfunctional.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Gluk said:


> You are absolutely right though. I do need to figure out how to be alone without being lonely. It's just that on the rare occasions when I do go out to a movie or something by myself,I just feel like a huge loser and everyone is looking at me and thinking the same thing.


This is exactly what a therapist will help you with. In fact, they probably deal with that one problem more often than all the other problems they see, combined. Every one of us, unless we're a psychopath, doubts ourselves to an extent. He'll help you see that it's normal and that you can take steps to change it and start valuing yourself, so that you come to enjoy being around other people. It's not gonna be easy, I won't lie. But the payoff at the other end is so huge, you're gonna kick yourself for waiting so long.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Gluk said:


> I need to adopt more of a policy like that. I have a small group of friends and they all like me. Typically though,I am more of the advice giver in my group of friends. Which is odd because around my friends I am more of an alpha male than I am in my relationships. Around them I am often times referred to as a "loveable as*hole" Simply because I am very straightforward in how things should be done. It's always much easier to see what is going on in other people's relationships while mine are usually pretty dysfunctional.


That's because you trust your friends to keep liking you and wanting you in their group, even if you show your 'real' side, whereas with women, you automatically assume you'll never be enough to keep one, so you have to kiss their ass, keep silent on YOUR needs, and dedicate yourself to being her (and her family's) servant, for them to want to keep you around.

In other words, you're afraid.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

Sorry didn't get to reply yesterday. Was a hckl of a day.

My ex text me yesterday and accused me of vandalizing her new boyfriends car. I didn't bother replying. I mean I'm almost 40 and not going to bother entertaining those kind of juvenile accusations. If she wanted to talk to me she could have just sent me a regular text. Which honestly it really upset me that she would accuse me of something like that. Which I figure is why she said it. 

In an effort to change up a couple of things I have decided to try to quit regular smoking. I was out all day yesterday picking out a evape. Which I know sounds like switching from one bad habit to another but the guy at the smoke shop assures me it's much better than smoking just because it doesn't have all the chemicals in it. 

Being that it's getting painfully close to winter time. I started looking at some indoor rock climbing classes. I'm not really one for going to a gym and working out so figure if I can find some classes like that at a decent rate it might be a bit more tolerable and maybe even fun to do. 

I'm really anxious to get in to check out my therapist later this month. He had a lot of good reviews so I guess we'll see what happens.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Where do you live? We have rockclimbing at our Lifetime Fitness gyms.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> That's because you trust your friends to keep liking you and wanting you in their group, even if you show your 'real' side, whereas with women, you automatically assume you'll never be enough to keep one, so you have to kiss their ass, keep silent on YOUR needs, and dedicate yourself to being her (and her family's) servant, for them to want to keep you around.
> 
> In other words, you're afraid.


You're probably right. My friends seem to kind of like that side of me quite a bit. I do worry that I won't be able to keep a woman and have this constant fear that I'll be alone forever if I don't try to keep them happy all the time. Which obviously that is not working out so well :smile2: So hopefully,by the time I get in deep with a therapist he can help me come to set boundaries and be be ok with being on my own.


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## Gluk (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> Where do you live? We have rockclimbing at our Lifetime Fitness gyms.


I'm in Missouri. I actually found a place not too far from me that offers indoor rock climbing. 

I was just looking at a Lifetime fitness near me but it doesn't list anything about rockclimbing. I might have to email them and see if they offer it and it's just not listed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PM me your city and I'll log in to LifeTime and see what yours offers.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Gonecrazy said:


> G'day Gluk,
> 
> Mate, you are screaming low self esteem/confidence to me. With all three women, the story rings the same to me. You met a woman, she decided to cheat or leave, then the guy kicks her out and you take her back. I want to know, how the fcuk did your second wife go see her ex the day after the wedding. Where you not on honeymoon? I would have had a bag packed for her on her return if that were me. Absolutely no good reason for her to visit the ex in these circumstances. You say that nothing happened and that you know that for a fact....... so you're saying that you were in the same room as them were you!!!
> 
> ...










.. it sad to see someone so giving , GIVE to people who toss them aside so easily... this is just not OK... Stand up - kick them to the curb... Good riddance! Honest good people should only be with honest good people.. let all the moral less liars find each other.. 


On Low self esteem.... it's one of those things.. the more you think about it, it invades your mind, immobilizing you....

Top Ten Facts about Low Self Esteem

You need to stand up for yourself in these areas.. 



> *Good self esteem is actually a by-product of living in a healthy way.* So rather than trying to raise it directly it's easier to focus elsewhere (such on what a person does) and let self esteem rise as a happy side effect of a change in living. What do we all need in life that will help us incidentally feel better about ourselves?
> 
> 7) Build on Solid Foundations
> 
> ...


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