# His Needs, Her needs. By Willard F. Harley Jr. An open discussion.



## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

I wanted to know who has read this book, and if you have, what your thoughts are? Has it changed your perspective on human nature/the opposite sex/marriage? Has it been helpful or harmful? Also, do you agree with all of the concepts and prescribed antidotes? Any other points of discussion welcome. Most importantly, has it turned your marriage around?


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

I red the book ; 

it is interresting ; the questionaires are good only if your partner is willing to go through them .

Mine threw them in my face .

I believe when we reach a state of disagrement of that state , no book can be helpful.

I suggest Nen are from Mars , women from Venus ".
It coul be easier to convince a wife read it .


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## School bus (Sep 25, 2014)

I read it and love languages in a matter of days. For me I found great stuff from both to apply in my marriage.


The wife hasn't read yet, but I think I will push her to do so because I identified strongly with his #1 man need (fulfilling sex). 

I also found that he was on target with a woman's needs, or at least what he says in his book strongly tracked the complaints I've heard through the relationship. 

In the end I found the book worth the price if admission. I even do think the wife is happier with some minor adjustments I made based in what I learned. 

Happy wife happy life!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Perhaps it would help some couples, but I found the concepts dated. If you are totally clueless about the opposite sex its a starting point. He stereotypes men and women. I think most men want something more than a hooker who cleans house for a wife. His advice for dealing with affairs was insulting (and that's being polite). You cannot, and should not, nice someone out of an affair.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

So for those who didn't care for it, what is a better suggestion?

The BF and I are reading the 5 love languages. One chapter a night. He is open and willing to apply the concepts. 

Any other suggestions on reading material that is centered around both lovers getting thier emotional needs met?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Pluto2 said*: Perhaps it would help some couples, but I found the concepts dated. If you are totally clueless about the opposite sex its a starting point. He stereotypes men and women. I think most men want something more than a hooker who cleans house for a wife. His advice for dealing with affairs was insulting (and that's being polite). You cannot, and should not, nice someone out of an affair.


 Let's put it this way.. If one is more of a traditionally minded person who feels some of those tenants still has some value in our modern world ....you may just find this book refreshing...it's so easy to understand yet some of us still need a brick in some areas...









Williard Harley is a christian author..I personally don't think he goes overboard in this area, but others may disagree, or feel he is too "old school" in some areas....

As for me...

I had this book on my shelf many yrs ago but gave it to a friend who was struggling in her marriage, before I ever cracked the cover...It was something I picked up at a sale, just never got around to reading... 

I also had "the 5 Love Languages"..one I did read...(It's similar)...so after seeing this book mentioned so many times on TAM... I got myself another copy....and in my opinion.. * it's one of THE BEST marriage books on the market*...these are really good too....

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: 

Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires; The Respect He Desperately Needs: Books

Back to His Needs, Her Needs... I much enjoyed the breakdown, a chapter devoted to each on these 10 emotional needs... no matter if one is traditionally minded or not, I seriously doubt they have no use for these in their marriages..



As I started reading.. I found I resonated with darn near EVERYTHING this author spoke... but then again.. I'm a more Traditionally minded female....I felt much of this was pure common sense really....

For the most part, it's how myself & H has always lived .. the only area we missed it was some in the sex department ...(I wasn't getting how much a man feels loved by lots of sex !)...but we've made up for that. 

You can look around the Authors website and get a better feel of what he is all about..his beliefs / marital concepts he feels it good for families.... For instance...He is one who ascribes to The Policy of Radical Honesty .. some may feel that is TOO MUCH... though couples like myself & Husband.. that's how we live..works for us!..

Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice

Again, I find his teachings very sound.. Not that I agree with everything.. we like to enjoy some Porn together, and I'm sure Harley would be against that.. so pick what you could improve upon ...and allow for your individual expression & ways if its something yourself & Spouse are OK with..

It's in the CONFLICTS you have, the communication breakdown, ... where you are missing each other, can't see the others side..that the wisdom of a marriage book can be valuable..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I have read a lot of marriage books and this one was just O.K.

It had some good pointers but was somewhat restricted and limited, dated, maybe oversimplified is the word.

He should stay away from infidelity. He is truly clueless in that arena and I have seen real couples go down in screaming flames trying to follow his infidelity advice.


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## School bus (Sep 25, 2014)

If you don't read it because it's "obvious" or "oversimplified" you are making a mistake. It's not that I didn't know those things, but in examining them I found that I had become complacent in my own right with regard to them. Just thought I'd throw that out there for anyone "on the fence" about reading it


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The book isn't Magna Carta or anything, but the psychological principles behind it are spot on. It should be required reading for all couples, if for nothing else than to understand that, to stay together, you must understand what makes your partner happy and unhappy, and strive to keep them happy and not make them unhappy, and your spouse should be doing the same thing for you. 

The book gets into the weeds on that stuff and I have found it to be true, with very little that could NOT turn out to be true in most people.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> The book isn't Magna Carta or anything, but the psychological principles behind it are spot on. It should be required reading for all couples, if for nothing else than to understand that, to stay together, you must understand what makes your partner happy and unhappy, and strive to keep them happy and not make them unhappy, and your spouse should be doing the same thing for you.
> 
> The book gets into the weeds on that stuff and I have found it to be true, with very little that could NOT turn out to be true in most people.


:iagree:


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Without much thought, we followed a script we learned when we were young. It wasn't working. I had no idea of "needs" (except for those described by Maslow). I knew I had wants. I wanted to "fix" my M and be happy. I was looking for a way to foster that. 

Some of the previous posters (TY) put me on to the book. In the state I was in, it was a simple glimpse on what could be and it started me off. Yes, the book is simple, parochial, and dated. But it's an easy read and it gets the points across quickly to someone desperately looking for help. It's not the holy grail, and I don't think one exist. I look at it and 5LL, as books for the masses and basic 101. Once someone gets their tongue wet on something like this, then they might move on to Gottman, Schnarch, Hendrix, etc... I do believe it covers all the basics. 

I can say it opened my eyes to behaviors that were preventing me from getting what I wanted and the ones that would help me get what I desired. I'm not a zealot when it comes to self-help books. I take what works for me and I leave the rest. To answer your question, yes it was a start to a great R for my M.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I like the general idea behind it, and behind 5 love languages. Don't let yourself get pigeonholed into the idea that there are really only 5 or 10 "needs" or "languages" though. Just open yourself to the idea of giving your partner what they need, not what YOU would need in their place.

The platinum rule, rather than the golden rule. Treat others the way THEY want to be treated.

Now, if I can just get my wife to read them...


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I got the book a couple years ago after seeing it referenced here. I'm not religious and wasn't sure how much that would play a part in the book. I haven't finished reading it yet - it's on the shelf with a bookmark in place. Maybe I'll get to finishing it this week now that it's on my mind again. 

When my husband and I were initially figuring out where we were at, we took the online questionnaire around needs (it's likely at one of the links SA posted). This was eye-opening for me. I remember being defensive at first, then a smidgen of resentment arose, before finally (not on the same day) shelving my ego to be able to listen, understand and then recognize the sh*t I needed to own that played a part in our dynamic.

Reading the book (although I haven't finished it), doing the questionnaire and having raw conversations, learning from experiences at TAM, along with some counseling, helped the light-bulb above my head to come on - initially with just a flicker at first. I wouldn't ever attribute a book or a therapist or any other tool, to being responsible for changing about our marriage. Tools are just that. 

The change in behavior and growth from both myself and my husband is what has been improving our marriage. It's through both of us taking responsibility - and that includes being clear and communicating what our needs are as well as being aware of meeting each others needs whenever possible.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I did have fun with it but enjoyed 5LL better. Honestly, anything that gets you communicating as a couple has done the job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm similar to other posters. It helped me see the road blocks in my own head that I couldn't see before I read it. Before I could make any changes in my relationship, I had to change the way I thought about our problems.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

heartsbeating said:


> When my husband and I were initially figuring out where we were at, we took the online questionnaire around needs (it's likely at one of the links SA posted). This was eye-opening for me. I remember being defensive at first, then a smidgen of resentment arose, before finally (not on the same day) shelving my ego to be able to listen, understand and then recognize the sh*t I needed to own that played a part in our dynamic.


Here is the link... 








 Emotional Needs Questionnaire









A couple posters mentioned this book is no good when it comes to dealing with infidelity.. I guess I never looked at this book as one that made this a big focus.. it just dwells on how, when these needs are NOT met, too often it does lead there... but the aftermath of that.. another book would be better.. I see "His Needs/ Her Needs" more as a Preventative ..... if every couple was mindful and giving in these emotional needs, listening / seeking to understand...working through it ...forums like this wouldn't be busting at the seams..

Listed again:

1. *Admiration*
2. *Affection*
3. *Conversation*
4. *Domestic support*
5. *Family commitment*
6.* Financial support*
7. *Honesty and openness*
8. *Physical attractiveness*
9. *Recreational companionship*
10. *Sexual fulfillment*


Once you cross THAT LINE into infidelity...other books will be much better in helping to overcome.. if a couple decides to stay & work it out that is.. maybe something like this..(did a little research & reading reviews)...

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Books

After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful,


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Nope, never read it. Never really felt the need to turn to self-help books that tend outline what to me always seemed fairly obvious. I've looked at the synopsis, the interpretations from people on this board, and the list of needs, and it just all looks like either fairly obvious stuff she and I were communicating about long before we wed, or things that are stereotypical for some marriages, but not our own.

But after being on TAM long enough I'm beginning to think that I should pick up the book, or the 5LL. She's more into the self-help world so maybe she already read them, or would enjoy reading them. I'll be skipping the MMSLP though, thank God.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

heartsbeating said:


> When my husband and I were initially figuring out where we were at, we took the online questionnaire around needs (it's likely at one of the links SA posted). This was eye-opening for me. I remember being defensive at first, then a smidgen of resentment arose, before finally (not on the same day) shelving my ego to be able to listen, understand and then recognize the sh*t I needed to own that played a part in our dynamic.


Same here. 

I'll go a step further and advise people this. The Emotional Needs and Love Busters (how you hurt your spouse) questionnaires are SO important for opening up communication with your spouse, and for understanding your spouse. They really really help! But do this: Do the LB questionnaire first. Really think about how your spouse answers. As you said, take down the defensiveness and really ask yourself what you're doing things to make your spouse unhappy. It could be as big as buying cars without their input to as small as leaving dirty Q-tips around the house for your spouse to pick up (that one's mine, lol), but they're all LBs. And do you really want to be the cause of unhappiness to your spouse? 

So spend some time thinking about how you LB your spouse, and figure out how to stop doing it. Spend 2 or 3 months eliminating those LBs; change those habits. You will be AMAZED at how much better your marriage becomes, just with those LBs gone. And the added bonus is that your spouse will then want to eliminate THEIR LBs. I was so shocked to see the change in my marriage once I did that. 

Anyway, do that first. Then a few months later, do the EN questionnaire. Chances are that the ENs may change, once the LBs disappear. And by that time, you AND your spouse will be more enthusiastic about meeting each other's ENs.

It really works!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My marriage and my wife's family is well described in the DSM-IV... No need for other self help books


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

turnera said:


> Same here.
> 
> I'll go a step further and advise people this. The Emotional Needs and Love Busters (how you hurt your spouse) questionnaires are SO important for opening up communication with your spouse, and for understanding your spouse. They really really help! But do this: Do the LB questionnaire first. Really think about how your spouse answers. As you said, take down the defensiveness and really ask yourself what you're doing things to make your spouse unhappy. It could be as big as buying cars without their input to as small as leaving dirty Q-tips around the house for your spouse to pick up (that one's mine, lol), but they're all LBs. And do you really want to be the cause of unhappiness to your spouse?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure we did the Love Busters Questionnaire. 

I do remember being initially p!ssed at his perspective with some of the Emotional Needs questionnaire. Which is exactly why we needed to do it. Hubs was the one that suggested doing it. This was before I bought the His Needs/Her Needs book for myself. Now I see that it really was valuable. It's been a while since I picked up the book but I do remember feeling some content felt outdated, stereotyped, or I couldn't relate - but the concept of meeting one another's needs, I was down with. Maybe I'll have more opinion once I actually finish the book.

As Conan said, anything that gets us communicating more openly is a good thing.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

Zouz said:


> I red the book ;
> 
> it is interresting ; the questionaires are good only if your partner is willing to go through them .
> 
> Mine threw them in my face


so true... !!!!
I'm so glad I'm not the only person to experience that type of behavior from a spouse.
It is a very good book though.. but yes totally useless for only one person to read.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SlyGuy said:


> so true... !!!!
> I'm so glad I'm not the only person to experience that type of behavior from a spouse.
> It is a very good book though.. but yes totally useless for only one person to read.


Why put up with such crappy behavior?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SlyGuy said:


> so true... !!!!
> I'm so glad I'm not the only person to experience that type of behavior from a spouse.
> It is a very good book though.. but yes totally useless for only one person to read.


Not true. My H never read it. The most he knows is that principle of the Love Bucket (my take on the Love Bank), which I explained to him.

I did the questionnaires myself for HIM. And then worked on my LBs that I knew he'd mentioned before. And then I worked hard to meet what I knew were his ENs. The response was almost immediate. He didn't know why, probably didn't even think about it, he just knew he was happier each day, and then his gruff exterior disappeared and he became a better spouse.

And he never even knew why.


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I agree with most of the comments on here, and have found it a little helpful in my situation. Funny thing is, this book also doubles as a "how to steal a married person's heart" manual. I think it should be hidden from all bachelors and home wreckers. lol


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Until I started to participate here I had never heard of His Needs, Her Needs. Since I'm not into self help books, I haven't read it and can't say I ever will.

That said, if it has helped more people than it has hindered, I'm glad the book was published.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I think it's good but it is important to remember that just because he talks about needs that are most likely attached to one gender, doesn't mean they always are. 

Ex. My H has a strong need for admiration but less of a need for touch/sex. 
I have a strong need for domestic support. 



I like his love bank concept and his giver/taker advice as well


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think it's good but it is important to remember that just because he talks about needs that are most likely attached to one gender, doesn't mean they always are.


Which is why he tells you to do the questionnaires, so you can find out for sure what they are.


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## Me'N'My'Girl (Jan 10, 2010)

SlyGuy said:


> so true... !!!!
> I'm so glad I'm not the only person to experience that type of behavior from a spouse.
> It is a very good book though.. but yes totally useless for only one person to read.


Yup, same here..
Very diasappointing!


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## Janis (Nov 21, 2014)

I can't wait to look for it.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Nope, never read it. Never really felt the need to turn to self-help books that tend outline what to me always seemed fairly obvious. I've looked at the synopsis, the interpretations from people on this board, and the list of needs, and it just all looks like either fairly obvious stuff she and I were communicating about long before we wed, or things that are stereotypical for some marriages, but not our own.
> 
> But after being on TAM long enough I'm beginning to think that I should pick up the book, or the 5LL. She's more into the self-help world so maybe she already read them, or would enjoy reading them. I'll be skipping the MMSLP though, thank God.


Self-help desks and marriage guidance are pretty similar in that they start with th eobvious things. The advice tends to be ridiculously obvious and (as a man) advice from women and most happily married men seems to assume you are an idiot. However, many problems are that obvious - if both spouses genuinely care, try and are not completely idiotic far more marriages will survive. 


Most marriages that can be saved fall into a wonderful bracket, one or both partners want the marriage to work but are doing something wrong that can be fixed. If a woman is open, caring, affectionate, attractive and caring, most men will value that highly. If a man is strong, bringing in money and caring, most women will value that highly. This is obvious, yet things generally go wrong the the basis of one of these things. Sometimes it needs the obvious pointed out.

The irritations comes when you are like a man with an unreliable car who ends up learning a huge amount about how cars work from trying to maintain it, while a smug git who has a reliable car offers advice such as "put some gas in it" and thinks he is a guru. As a married man, most advice from women and happily married men (certainly not all) offered nothing but the insight they really did not know what they were talking about. Once you have a deep insight into how marriage work, it is probable you have reached the point that your car needs to be scrapped.

The vast majority of happily married men are married to women who genuinely care deeply for their husband's welbeing. Most women believe that most women are like that too. Also, the large majority of marriages that can be fixed will be fixed in that way. My MC's advice to my wife was ridiculously obvious, it could also have been useful.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nonsense. Most people have no IDEA how to keep a marriage happy and healthy. Most people who end up in places like this do so because they just continued to live life like they always did, and then wonder why it doesn't work in marriage. Which doesn't come with a manual. 

If you're open minded, you can learn a LOT from self-help books, things you DIDN'T know. For instance, I didn't know until I read HNHN that we have 'needs,' and that men typically have one set of needs while women have another. Once I understood that, I changed how I treated my husband, stopped my Love Busters and made sure to meet his top 2 or 3 Emotional Needs, and this once angry person I believed was abusive turned into a happy loving man again. He was just unhappy. Just like I was. But we would have never figured those things out on our own. And since he refused therapy, reading HNHN is what fixed things. And I explained it all to him and he changed what HE was doing. Never would have happened without reading a book.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

turnera said:


> Nonsense. Most people have no IDEA how to keep a marriage happy and healthy. Most people who end up in places like this do so because they just continued to live life like they always did, and then wonder why it doesn't work in marriage. Which doesn't come with a manual.
> 
> If you're open minded, you can learn a LOT from self-help books, things you DIDN'T know. For instance, I didn't know until I read HNHN that we have 'needs,' and that men typically have one set of needs while women have another.....


Fair enough.

I was addressing why much advice is obvious and that it does not stop it being useful to many people. I think most people getting something useful from them (including myself) have a head-slapping moment as it seems so obvious when you read it.

Also, if only one partner is serious about making it work, all the understanding and wisdom in the world will not work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Again, I'll disagree. If there's been a building of walls causing the one partner to not be serious about making it work, then removing LBs and meeting ENS is THE best way to get that person back on board. And they don't even have to be participating; it will affect them nonetheless.

Now, if that person is abusive, or cheating, or mentally unhealthy, yeah, this doesn't work. But if the person really does love the other and just has given up after being hurt or rejected or whatever, they usually welcome the change. Soak it up like a dry sponge.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

turnera said:


> Nonsense. Most people have no IDEA how to keep a marriage happy and healthy. Most people who end up in places like this do so because they just continued to live life like they always did, and then wonder why it doesn't work in marriage. Which doesn't come with a manual.
> 
> If you're open minded, you can learn a LOT from self-help books, things you DIDN'T know. For instance, I didn't know until I read HNHN that we have 'needs,' and that men typically have one set of needs while women have another. Once I understood that, I changed how I treated my husband, stopped my Love Busters and made sure to meet his top 2 or 3 Emotional Needs, and this once angry person I believed was abusive turned into a happy loving man again. He was just unhappy. Just like I was. But we would have never figured those things out on our own. And since he refused therapy, reading HNHN is what fixed things. And I explained it all to him and he changed what HE was doing. Never would have happened without reading a book.


Turnera, what did you do specifically?


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

I read this book in my marriage when things started going wrong. I felt that there wasn't much point if I was the only one reading it. I felt I was already making an attempt to meet his needs and it wasn't working. 

In hindsight, NOTHING will work if your partner doesn't see you as a team. If your partner isn't willing to do the things that you need to be happy and sees it as a competition or is only out for him/her self, no book is going to help.

If I were in a relationship with an SO who was willing to work on things...I have no idea what that would look like or what book would be helpful. It seems to me that the most important thing in getting my needs met is that 1) I know what they are, 2) I can articulate those needs to my partner in a loving and specific way, and 3) I am confident and insistent that if he can't or won't meet them, I get them somewhere else and he knows I will do that. 

I've come to that conclusion in various ways but there are books I've read along the way that have helped. "Difficult Conversations," and "Crucial Conversations" are two that I think are key. There's a series of books out right now that I think are amazing called "Secrets of happily Married Women," "Secrets of Happily Married Men," and "Secrets of Happy Families." Much of the advice in them is based, interestingly enough, on research about successful business organizations. 

I've also read a lot that has been published by Dr. John Gottman who is a couples therapist and researcher. He and his folks can predict within 15 minutes of watching a couple argue whether or not they will divorce. 

If you have a willing partner, then it seems anything you read can help. If they think they are fine just the way they are, you are up sh*t creek. The more I read TAM the more I think that's true.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I sat down and wrote out everything he'd ever complained to me about, and asked myself if I really did them - ignoring him, hanging out with friends instead of him, doing what my parents wanted over what he wanted, not cleaning enough, stuff like that. If it was true, I put it on a list of things I had to change. And I worked on that daily, asking myself if what I just did fell into one of those categories; if so, I adjusted and/or apologized. It was like night and day. Just being HEARD finally made a huge difference in his demeanor.

Once I'd fixed that, I tried filling out the EN questionnaire for him, which was pretty easy, since he's an open book. I started doing things for him that I knew mattered, even if I didn't feel like it at the time (at the time, I was at another forum claiming that I thought he was abusive because he was angry all the time). I didn't like him any more, but I still forced myself to meet those ENs. Again, it was night and day. Once I started doing that, HE started doing what I was asking for. 

It's the old you're in your corner of the ring and I'm in mine syndrome. SOMEone has to go first.

I really believe that, barring mental issues or abuse, ALL of us just want to be loved and appreciated and if the other person will just do that, instead of being against them - after all, you started out as a team, didn't you? - you'll find ways to tear down the self-protective shields and get on the same team again.

Now, I have to add that this was 15 years ago and I slowly stopped working on my side and he did, too. Today, we're in terrible shape, but it's as much my fault as his; actually more, because I didn't keep working on myself and my lack of ability to speak my mind.

In other words, you can't just do it for a few months and then expect the rest of your marriage to be ok. It takes work and attention.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

firebelly1 said:


> In hindsight, NOTHING will work if your partner doesn't see you as a team.


But WHY does your partner see you as a team? How does HE feel? How has HE been hurt, or not heard? You have to be honest about your own side of the street. Barring abuse or mental illness, no marriage failing is all the other person's fault. They're sitting over their licking their wounds just like YOU are; you just aren't hearing their case.

Think about it. If YOUR spouse suddenly started fixing all the things you don't like about them, wouldn't YOU get excited about the prospect of a better marriage? Of course you would. Then why not give your spouse the benefit of the same thing?


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

turnera said:


> But WHY does your partner see you as a team? How does HE feel? How has HE been hurt, or not heard? You have to be honest about your own side of the street. Barring abuse or mental illness, no marriage failing is all the other person's fault. They're sitting over their licking their wounds just like YOU are; you just aren't hearing their case.
> 
> Think about it. If YOUR spouse suddenly started fixing all the things you don't like about them, wouldn't YOU get excited about the prospect of a better marriage? Of course you would. Then why not give your spouse the benefit of the same thing?


The last marriage counsellor that my husband and I went to told me in an individual session that my husband simply was not "capable of relationship." I was confident that I had done everything I possibly could to make our relationship work. There are those people out there and he was one of them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, then, you ended up with one of the ones with mental issues. Take the professional's advice.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I liked his "Love Busters" but that's because it hit home for me, my marriage is right there on the first page. Three first busters are all mine.

But I have started this one, and got prejudiced after reading that kids who are not spanked become brats, and while browsing I saw advice for women how to wear their hair to make them more attractive. Really?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Is he in the controlling or abusive spectrum? 



> YOUR ABUSIVE PARTNER DOESN’T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIS ANGER; HE HAS A PROBLEM WITH YOUR ANGER.
> One of the basic human rights he takes away from you is the right to be angry with him. No matter how badly he treats you, he believes that your voice shouldn’t rise and your blood shouldn’t boil. The privilege of rage is reserved for him alone. When your anger does jump out of you—as will happen to any abused woman from time to time—he is likely to try to jam it back down your throat as quickly as he can. Then he uses your anger against you to prove what an irrational person you are. Abuse can make you feel straitjacketed. You may develop physical or emotional reactions to swallowing your anger, such as depression, nightmares, emotional numbing, or eating and sleeping problems, which your partner may use as an excuse to belittle you further or make you feel crazy


https://www.goodreads.com/work/quot...inside-the-minds-of-angry-and-controlling-men


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

WandaJ said:


> I liked his "Love Busters" but that's because it hit home for me, my marriage is right there on the first page. Three first busters are all mine.
> 
> But I have started this one, and got prejudiced after reading that kids who are not spanked become brats, and while browsing I saw advice for women how to wear their hair to make them more attractive. Really?


It's already been said that the book is very outdated and to look past that. And he's right, spoiled children who don't get consequences DO turn out to be brats; it's a psychological response. Spanking is outdated, but consequences? No.

And wearing your hair a certain way IS a valid thing to consider because nearly every male, probably 95% of them, have Attractive Spouse as a legitimate need. Men are VERY visual creatures and looks are everything to them (that and sex). So if a woman doesn't realize that her appearance means a lot to her spouse, then she is the one not meeting important needs.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

turnera said:


> It's already been said that the book is very outdated and to look past that. And he's right, spoiled children who don't get consequences DO turn out to be brats; it's a psychological response. Spanking is outdated, but consequences? No.
> 
> And wearing your hair a certain way IS a valid thing to consider because nearly every male, probably 95% of them, have Attractive Spouse as a legitimate need. Men are VERY visual creatures and looks are everything to them (that and sex). So if a woman doesn't realize that her appearance means a lot to her spouse, then she is the one not meeting important needs.


He wasn't talking about consequences. He was talking specifically about spanking, as requirement of well behaved child.
Anyway, I cannot get through this book. 5Love Language are much shorter, easier to read. This guy just stretches it too much for me.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

turnera said:


> I sat down and wrote out everything he'd ever complained to me about, and asked myself if I really did them - ignoring him, hanging out with friends instead of him, doing what my parents wanted over what he wanted, not cleaning enough, stuff like that. If it was true, I put it on a list of things I had to change. And I worked on that daily, asking myself if what I just did fell into one of those categories; if so, I adjusted and/or apologized. It was like night and day. Just being HEARD finally made a huge difference in his demeanor.
> 
> Once I'd fixed that, I tried filling out the EN questionnaire for him, which was pretty easy, since he's an open book. I started doing things for him that I knew mattered, even if I didn't feel like it at the time (at the time, I was at another forum claiming that I thought he was abusive because he was angry all the time). I didn't like him any more, but I still forced myself to meet those ENs. Again, it was night and day. Once I started doing that, HE started doing what I was asking for.....


That is a wonderful tale. I confess, I rather relate to your husband in that tale, in that I was in health through over-work and getting down from rejection. Communication was great, but was just words. Taking it seriously and understanding that words meant things would have been key. After a year or so, I mentally and emotionally withdrew, but would have responded exactly like your husband did. At that point, she understandably started to feel neglected and the next stage of decline set in.

Again though, you were and are willing to be self-critical. That is hard for all of us. If we do not believe that we can change, it is just depressing to look at what we might see as intrinsic failings in whom we are.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> He wasn't talking about consequences. He was talking specifically about spanking, as requirement of well behaved child.
> Anyway, I cannot get through this book. 5Love Language are much shorter, easier to read. This guy just stretches it too much for me.


It is grossly stereotypical, but there is some value in stereotypes if we recognise the flaws. I had a house guest who really made me feel alive, even though I kept my hands off (she was half my age and saw me accordingly as an old man), but she was beautiful and appreciative. It meant a huge amount and I realized how much I had missed that. Again, that a man will like a girl being pretty and like that she is appreciative of living rent free in a very nice flat is obvious, but there are many women who would be shocked no matter how many times they are told. 

Equally, the advice it gives on how to treat a woman is generally painfully obvious. However, many gave it to me as a deep insight as it had only come to them late in life.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Husband and I both read the book. I found the lists helpful and not surprising. Did it change anything between us? Not really. I agree with the above commits about honest communication. It take two, one person can't just keep asking their spouse questions. Both have to be communicating.


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## Hello_Im_Maddie (May 8, 2014)

The photo attached to this thread seems sexist and outdated. I personally am the wife who wants a recreational companion and sexual responsiveness!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Hello_Im_Maddie said:


> The photo attached to this thread seems sexist and outdated. I personally am the wife who wants a recreational companion and sexual responsiveness!



And my wife has no needs whatsoever (six figure earning zombie). Join the club


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

turnera said:


> It's already been said that the book is very outdated and to look past that. And he's right, spoiled children who don't get consequences DO turn out to be brats; it's a psychological response. Spanking is outdated, but consequences? No.
> 
> And wearing your hair a certain way IS a valid thing to consider because nearly every male, probably 95% of them, have Attractive Spouse as a legitimate need. Men are VERY visual creatures and looks are everything to them (that and sex). So if a woman doesn't realize that her appearance means a lot to her spouse, then she is the one not meeting important needs.


sure, it is important to look attractive. And he should have stopped there, not keep going with beauty advise, that's not his area of expertise. it is big turn off for me, micro-managing like this.


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