# So Now I'm Upset



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

This is just a stray rant. 

As most of you know my first (love of my life) wife was a serial beteayer. My wonderful second wife had a small EA a few years ago. The deal was zero contact and if she saw him at a writer's conference, she was to either ignore or report all contacts. 

So today we went to a Bose store as I wanted to buy her headphones (she was grateful, but the real reason was so she'd stop using mine- she had no need to know that, however.). I was laughing about me being more or less propositioned by a 36 year old female attorney from a group I was hosting at a work function last night (this is funny as I am not handsome- clearly she had too much to drink). Obviously I rebuffed the offer to escort her to her room. So she had a small confession. That posom who was after her was at a writer's conference in June and he was all over her for 4 days. Talking, flirting... coming to where she was eating... And I'm like 'what the friggin' hell'! You're supposed to report this as it happens. Never told me when she called in the evenings. Never even told me when she got home.... 

So there I am giving her the third degree and I can feel myself getting madder and madder. Now I'm peppering her with questions...... 

For what it's worth she seems to have handled it well and enlisted a couple gal pals to always be by her side and blah blah blah.....

So there I go starting to recall every little thing that might make me question her honesty and now I'm wondering about everything and all that past garbage hits me (like when she said if she ever betrayed me she would never confess) and other stuff.

I hate this crap. I asked for his address (he lives about 90 minutes away) as maybe it's time he and I had a #%*×€%@ "talk" about this, but she's telling me to "just let it go" and "nothing happened" and she hasn't got it......... So I sent an email and put his old sorry a $$ on notice and I'm just flat stewing.

I don't need any replies, I'm just pissed off and will stay this way for a while. This post is my therapy.

She's just sitting there chatting it up with her mom.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Just support here. It sucks for sure.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

36 y.o. attorney, you say?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Just support here. It sucks for sure.


It is not lost on me that some of the people here are like family to me. And I've been properly called out on occasion when I stepped out of line. TAM can be the best therapy at times.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She handled it well, but keeping you in the dark might not have been the brightest move.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> 36 y.o. attorney, you say?


Good looking, too. Redhead! She was getting some drink and I casually mentioned to one of her attorney pals that she looked too young to drink. That made its way to her and she was all over me the rest of the night. I was actually embarrassed. I walked her and two other ladies to the Hilton in dt Portland where they were staying (from AZ) and she waits for them to clear and asks me to her room. I was so stunned I nearly burst out laughing. I politely turned the request down and dutifully reported it to wifey. I may be a fairly fit 57 year old, but my face looks like 5 miles of bad road and this is a headache I do NOT need.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She handled it well, but keeping you in the dark might not have been the brightest move.


And we have an agreement, dammit. She violated it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> And we have an agreement, dammit. She violated it.


You know that you have to let her know in uncertain terms that her not telling you at the time is not acceptable.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You have a right to be seriously upset. You can't help but start thinking what other things has she not told me about? She made an agreement with you and deliberately broke it four days in a row. This is a perfect way for a spouse to destroy trust in a marriage.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You know that you have to let her know in uncertain terms that her not telling you at the time is not acceptable.


After the third time she told me just stop.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I would be angry too. Transparency is a simple concept. It's really minimizing and seems like she doesn't own the EA very much.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I would be angry too. Transparency is a simple concept. It's really minimizing and seems like she doesn't own the EA very much.


She hardly did. I dragged it out of her.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I would be angry too. Transparency is a simple concept. It's really minimizing and seems like she doesn't own the EA very much.





thatbpguy said:


> She hardly did. I dragged it out of her.





2ntnuf said:


> 36 y.o. attorney, you say?





thatbpguy said:


> Good looking, too. Redhead!


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## MrsDraper (May 27, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She handled it well, but keeping you in the dark might not have been the brightest move.


Is that a pun?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> This is just a stray rant.
> 
> As most of you know my first (love of my life) wife was a serial beteayer. My wonderful second wife had a small EA a few years ago. The deal was zero contact and if she saw him at a writer's conference, she was to either ignore or report all contacts.
> 
> ...


You did the right thing. If he doesn't get the message, show up at his front door and *"politely request"* that he BTFO.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I hear ya BP believe me....


And stop selling yourself short in the looks dept.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

What was your wife's reaction to the woman lawyer who propositioned you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> She handled it well, but keeping you in the dark might not have been the brightest move.


 How can you say that she handled it well when she allowed that POSOM to be "all over her for 4 days. Talking, flirting... coming to where she was eating"? Handling it well would be her telling the POSOM to please leave her alone. Handling it well would be her calling her husband on day one asking him what she should do. If the POSOM was a smelly homeless guy, something tells me that she would not have let it go on for 4 days.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Yeah, or tell him she will report him for sexual harrasment.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I hear ya BP believe me....
> 
> 
> And stop selling yourself short in the looks dept.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell you a funny story about my looks.

I was in the Navy as a weatherman for 8 years. I got out just as cable tv was starting and a lot of Navy weather types were going to the Weather Channel. Someone asked my [first] wife if I was going to be a tv weatherman and she said, "no, he has a face made for radio". Gotta admit it was a funny line.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> What was your wife's reaction to the woman lawyer who propositioned you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She was not amused. But she also knew I was being straight up honest. She's a jealous type.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

TRy said:


> How can you say that she handled it well when she allowed that POSOM to be "all over her for 4 days. Talking, flirting... coming to where she was eating"? Handling it well would be her telling the POSOM to please leave her alone. Handling it well would be her calling her husband on day one asking him what she should do. If the POSOM was a smelly homeless guy, something tells me that she would not have let it go on for 4 days.


They are both writers and she set up his blig for him and she tells me she felt it right to be civil and polite. She didn't tell me so as not to upset me since [say it with me, everyone] "nothing happened".


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I do believe her 98%. But that 2% really eats at me.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> They are both writers and she set up his blig for him and she tells me she felt it right to be civil and polite. She didn't tell me so as not to upset me since [say it with me, everyone] "nothing happened".


I feel like I've heard this before 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TRy said:


> How can you say that she handled it well when she allowed that POSOM to be "all over her for 4 days. Talking, flirting... coming to where she was eating"? Handling it well would be her telling the POSOM to please leave her alone. Handling it well would be her calling her husband on day one asking him what she should do. If the POSOM was a smelly homeless guy, something tells me that she would not have let it go on for 4 days.


You make a good point.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> She was not amused. But she also knew I was being straight up honest. She's a jealous type.


So she told you about it to put you in your place. And this way you stay angry instead of letting your mind wonder about the redhead.

Wonder what else she holding back as ammunition...


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

TRy said:


> How can you say that she handled it well when she allowed that POSOM to be "all over her for 4 days. Talking, flirting... coming to where she was eating"? Handling it well would be her telling the POSOM to please leave her alone. Handling it well would be her calling her husband on day one asking him what she should do. If the POSOM was a smelly homeless guy, something tells me that she would not have let it go on for 4 days.





thatbpguy said:


> They are both writers and she set up his blig for him and she tells me she felt it right to be civil and polite. She didn't tell me so as not to upset me since *[say it with me, everyone] "nothing happened".*


A few things happened.
1. She was in contact with posom for 4 days.
2. She didn't tell you during or the conference or when she got home from it. That's why you're mad isn't it?
3. She knew you would want to know but she didn't want to tell you so she didn't.
4. When it suited her to throw a dart at you because you made her jealous by talking about some woman hitting on you, then she decided to tell you. Not out of transparency or morals but instead just to get a reaction.

TRy is right. She didn't handle this well and you're not handling it well either. This thread could be used to illustrate rug sweeping. You call her previous EA a 'small EA' to begin with and now you're defending the inappropriateness of this incident because she wasn't more inappropriate. I'm not sure how you can know that though since she wasn't honest until it suited her?

I don't think she respects what you think or your boundaries and I think you're afraid to get serious about it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I don't think she respects what you think or your boundaries and I think you're afraid to get serious about it.


*thatbpguy*: Read the above and think long and hard about this because I think there is a lot of truth to this.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

And I seriously doubt that's all she did.

And I guess you know now that there Are other women out there who find you attractive and you them.

And I wonder why you bothered telling her in the first place about that woman, if nothing happened. Did you want to hurt her or show her you are worth something to other women? If that is true, have you considered you are being emotionally and mentally abused? Have you considered that you may need to consider a divorce as the best way to remove yourself from an abusive woman?

I've read plenty of your posts. You write some good stuff. You don't deserve this.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrsDraper said:


> Is that a pun?


No. It wasn't a pun. I hadn't realised what I'd written. 

But that's just me. Funny, even when I don't realise it.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Ok, I will update and explain. I have to use my tablet due to a disabling virus on my laptop. 

My wife is 52, 5'0, 98 pounds and is the classic timid librarian type (and really cute- although, she works out a lot at home). She has not the ability to stick up for herself and while very smart, has no guts in any way. Her first marriage was very abusive with a cruel husband. We are supposed to have an open, tell all relationship in every regard. She is afraid to upset me and often holds things in. So it is understandable as she knows how sensitive I am about this dolt. I think the EA was more him manipulating her.

I called late this afternoon and spoke with both her watchdog friends (women in their 70's) and they said he was very much a pest but all wifey did was play polite. She didn't bite on his flirting... and with only one exception, they were never alone. He also recently remarried, so it's a mystery about his infatuation with my wife. 

The ladies (they have access) will give his cell number but not address. When I get it I am calling him and deliver an ultimatum. I am not shy about confrontation. After all, I raised a teenage daughter so I can do ANYTHING. I'll get my message across and if I get the chance to speak to his wife will fully inform her of the situation. 

Lastly, I am fully convinced there's nothing going on. Nonetheless, we had a long talk at dinner about trust and up front honesty.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Ok, I will update and explain. I have to use my tablet due to a disabling virus on my laptop.
> 
> My wife is 52, 5'0, 98 pounds and is the classic timid librarian type (and really cute- although, she works out a lot at home). She has not the ability to stick up for herself and while very smart, has no guts in any way. Her first marriage was very abusive with a cruel husband. We are supposed to have an open, tell all relationship in every regard. She is afraid to upset me and often holds things in. So it is understandable as she knows how sensitive I am about this dolt. I think the EA was more him manipulating her.
> 
> ...


Your wife refusing to give you his address smacks of her protecting him. Are you going to start accompanying her to these writing conferences now, since you can't trust her to be honest with you?

And btw, with the info you already have a PI can give you his address in a few minutes.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> And I seriously doubt that's all she did.
> 
> And I guess you know now that there Are other women out there who find you attractive and you them.
> 
> ...


Out of respect I tell my wife everything. She is my best friend and confidant. Also, 2 coworkers with me at the party told me the next day they were very concerned about me as it was obvious she was paying way too much of the wrong kind of attention to me (after she had too much to drink) and how walking those 3 attorneys back would go. Even though I assured them I dropped and dashed, some gossip made the rounds in our company of 14. So I made sure wifey knew upfront as opposed to hearing idle fricking gossip later at some company event. I have a tight timeline and can account for every single minute. 

As for women liking me, I find it odd I have always had good looking girlfriends (one wad an ex Playboy bunny) as I am not a flirt or handsome or have any money. My best fruend (of 45 years) tells me it's because they feel sorry for me. I can go with that.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> The ladies (they have access) will give his cell number but not address. When I get it I am calling him and deliver an ultimatum. I am not shy about confrontation. After all, I raised a teenage daughter so I can do ANYTHING. *I'll get my message across and if I get the chance to speak to his wife will fully inform her of the situation. *
> 
> Lastly, I am fully convinced there's nothing going on. Nonetheless, we had a long talk at dinner about trust and up front honesty.


And this is what you should do ASAP. I'm curious as to why they wouldn't give you his address. Not that you need it ... $10 can buy you a fair amount of information on the internet. 

So, what's the story on the one time they *were* alone.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> Your wife refusing to give you his address smacks of her protecting him. Are you going to start accompanying her to these writing conferences now, since you can't trust her to be honest with you?
> 
> And btw, with the info you already have a PI can give you his address in a few minutes.


She tells me she no longer has it. Honestly, I think she may not have it written, but kniws it as she has a near photographic memory. I think she is adamant about me not going down there and a fight of some sort ensuing. She is afraid of fights.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

You probably will hear more when you both are at a function. 

Those things don't go away. They get held in memories until needed by someone who will do something worse.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

By the way, I wrongly posted this. The party was Thursday night and not Friday. Sorry about that. Losing my mind these days due to lack of sleep. Horrible insomniac.

Also, sorry about spelling, but I hate this tablet and misspell every other word. How do kids use these darn things?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> And this is what you should do ASAP. I'm curious as to why they wouldn't give you his address. Not that you need it ... $10 can buy you a fair amount of information on the internet.
> 
> So, what's the story on the one time they *were* alone.


She was manning a book table and he came over to talk.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Get his address from the PI and go see his wife you don't need to talk to him.
You should be mad.
Hot red head huh?
now you are :banghead::banghead:
I'M KIDDING.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Get his address from the PI and go see his wife you don't need to talk to him.
> You should be mad.
> Hot red head huh?
> now you are :banghead::banghead:
> I'M KIDDING.


Were I single, I'd have taken her up on the invite. I have a fetish about redheads.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

If / when you speak with this over amorous, budding author's wife .... how do you think your wife will react when she finds out.



thatbpguy said:


> I have a fetish about redheads.


Me too!


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> If / when you speak with this over amorous, budding author's wife .... how do you think your wife will react when she finds out.
> 
> 
> Me too!


Still can't get wifey to dye her hair red or get a tat (too painful). I want to get matching tats, but I get the wifely death ray stare when I push it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Still can't get wifey to dye her hair red or get a tat (too painful). I want to get matching tats, but I get the wifely death ray stare when I push it.


Get her a wig.
When she gives you the death stare give her a whip and hand cuffs.:rofl:
You have been a bad boy!!!


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Get her a wig.
> When she gives you the death stare give her a whip and hand cuffs.:rofl:
> You have been a bad boy!!!


I told wifey your suggestion (and gave you full credit). I got a short lecture in return. Still, I like it. She also says she could put the whip to good use. Oiu!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I told wifey your suggestion (and gave you full credit). I got a short lecture in return. Still, I like it.


Hey are you throwing me under the bus?
But I digress.
Tell his wife and you know the rest.


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

So what consequences will she face for clearly disrespecting you, lying to you, protecting OM, breaking one of the most fundemental R agreements,...?

Some harsh words? Polygraph? Mandatory counselling to address her inability to stand up for herself vis-a-vis others (though if she can stand up to you, I don't know why she can't stand up to others), her willingness to break deals with you etc.? Divorce?

Thus far it seems she's getting away with almost no consequence. What's stopping her from doing the same or worse the next time?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> They are both writers and she set up his blig for him and she tells me she felt it right to be civil and polite. She didn't tell me so as not to upset me since [say it with me, everyone] "nothing happened".


 She did not tell you the first day that the other man hung around and flirted with her, because your wife knew that if she told you, you would have been within your right to insist that there not be a day 2, day 3 or day 4, and that is not the way she wanted this to play out. Full no contact with a former emotional affair partner is a reasonable expectation. Being civil and polite with a former emotional affair partner for 4 days behind your spouses back, is not reasonable. Since strictly emotional affairs by definition means that "nothing happened" in regards to sex, and since your wife feel that it is OK to resume contact with her former affair partner behind your back in secret just as long as there is no sex, there is nothing stopping your wife from resuming her emotional affair behind your back just as long she keeps it a better secret so that you do not get upset. Your reaction to this, where there are no real consequences for your wife, just gave her the green light to resume the emotional affair.

As for you confronting the other man, to what end? You already know that he does not respect you or your marriage, and that he owes you no allegiance or truthfulness. By confronting him now about something that happened so long ago, all that you will be doing is confirming to him that your wife kept is a secret from you until now, and that your wife does not respect your wishes on this enough that you can trust her to deal with it on her own. Other than giving him an ego boost that your wife will do this for him, it will not get him to stop. In fact it will encourage him to know that your feeling on this means so little to your wife, and that your wife values being civil and polite to him over being honest with you.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> After the third time she told me just stop.


That sort of says to me she still doesn't get it. There should be a ton of empathy towards how you are feeling, she seems to be dismissing it out of hand. Maybe that's what's stewing ya.

4 days of a man you had an EA with, chasing you around showing you attention has got to be an ego stroker.

I'm not trying to stoke things up, but I'm an analytical person, this is the way I see it and why it doesn't stand up.

As soon as she knew OM was there, she didn't pick up a phone and call you.

When OM approached her the first time, she didn't pick up a phone and call you

She went out to eat and miraculously she kept bumping into OM? Did she only go to one restaurant? If the chances of bumping into OM at that restaurant were so great why did she not go elsewhere?.. and she didn't call you.

She came home and she still didn't tell you.

You going on about it is annoying her, but what is probably more annoying is she probably is continuing like nothing happened, in fact there's a part which seems like she's got a bounce to her step and everything is peachy.

Will she be going to anymore of this conferences? Quit her job?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

like when she said if she ever betrayed me she would never confess

That would scare the **** out of anyone in a relationship


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Looked back into your initial thread.

Did she ever confess to spending the weekend with him?

Why do you think it is an EA?

Ok, found it another thread



thatbpguy said:


> I've wondered about that as well.
> 
> I was concerned so I finally cornered my wife about her activities with all my 'findings' and demanded a full explanation. Turns out I was mostly wrong, but she did admit to starting to fall into an EA (she states without realizing it and I lean towards believing her), but went for help immediately and cut off all contact with the OM.



Sounds like a trickle truth scenario than anything.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Well, I wouldn't be too tough on your wife, IF you believe she handled it well, and did not encourage him. It would have been better for her to shut him down, but it sounds like she may not be suited for that. She avoids confrontation. Same reason she didn't tell you what happened.

Frustrating? Sure, but you've let everyone know how you feel.

I believe you've done the right thing about POSOM, although a more direct challenge would be more effective, likely. It all depends on the situation.

In my situation, I feel that both POSOM and I know I'd whip him good if we ever faced off. So, I chose this as my major emphasis. Repeated challenges that he was forced to run from. 

If this isn't the situation, some other form of public shaming might be more effective. Cheaterville, contacting employers, highlighting his character flaws.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm concerned about the transparency issue your wife has. I assume she knew very well she was supposed to tell you about any contact with him. But she only told you because she was jealous about your "redhead" story and likely wanted to twist the knife some because she knew it would get to you. Now that the knife has been twisted, she doesn't want to hear any more about it. 

And, no, those very attractive women from your past weren't with you because they felt sorry for you. Yes, we can be visual and appreciate a very handsome man but we appreciate the real person far more than looks that fade. Time is a great equalizer.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I was wondering what she would say if you gave her the impression that something more happened. I don't know how you could do that. It just came to mind. Maybe some investigation independent of those women would be appropriate? Maybe I'm overreacting? I don't know. 

I'll tell you something else. I would not feel comfortable trusting those other women to tell me everything about my wife. Something isn't settling well with me about that. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. There is doubt in my mind.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

She's lost trust again, which puts you back to Dday emotionally, so of course you have to vent.

My question is, since she could so easily lie about 1) breaking your agreement and 2) engaging in contact with OM, then why would she not lie about the extent of her relationship with the guy. 

This might be a way for your to raise the question 2ntnuf brought up. Just a thought. I've been burned with the "trust me" response to valid questions so take my concerns with a grain of salt.


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## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> I may be a fairly fit 57 year old, but my face looks like 5 miles of bad road


Looks don't actually contribute much to chemistry for some people (though most of these people might be women). I couldn't care less about looks. If the conversation or the vibe between you was stirring her up, that might be all she needed.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> I've been burned with the "trust me" response to valid questions so take my concerns with a grain of salt.


Yeah, me too. That's why I keep qualifying things I write. I don't want to be too cautious, just smart.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I was wondering what she would say if you gave her the impression that something more happened. I don't know how you could do that. It just came to mind. Maybe some investigation independent of those women would be appropriate? Maybe I'm overreacting? I don't know.
> 
> I'll tell you something else. I would not feel comfortable trusting those other women to tell me everything about my wife. Something isn't settling well with me about that. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. There is doubt in my mind.


:iagree: totally read my mind and 100% agree. Wondered what she would say across a full spectrum of "something more happened":
"you enjoyed it more than you should have, and you know it", or 
"and this wasn't the first time since DDay you have hidden things from me 'for my protection'...", or
”and we both know it didn't stop with innocent flirting."

And I fully realize we TAMers tend to go way overboard on presumed guilt. Like 2ntenuf said, not accusing, but I am wondering because something doesn't quite settle completely right. Maybe it's more how strongly you've reacted to her breaking a promise to report immediately. You very know well the script of "not telling you for your own good and because nothing happened"...


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Openminded said:


> I'm concerned about the transparency issue your wife has. I assume she knew very well she was supposed to tell you about any contact with him. But she only told you because she was jealous about your "redhead" story and likely wanted to twist the knife some because she knew it would get to you. Now that the knife has been twisted, she doesn't want to hear any more about it.
> 
> And, no, those very attractive women from your past weren't with you because they felt sorry for you. Yes, we can be visual and appreciate a very handsome man but we appreciate the real person far more than looks that fade. Time is a great equalizer.


I think this is it. I work in a company of 14 and there 4 men and 10 women. All the women are fairly trim and good looking (and very good workers). Three have confessed to betrayals and 4 are single. Wifey is on edge about the work environment and about 6 times a year I have to play host to attorneys or dentists and drinking (I don't drink at all) is a focal point. I get closely questioned when I get home and she went to one at a Blazer game luxury suite and a few women drank and got flirty and she was mad at me for probably 2 weeks because I was the host. 

So, when I told her about the attorney, she said she had her own "confession" and so forth. 

Anyway, after our fairly stern talk last night we both have calmed down. I have th om cell number and will be calling him this afternoon as we're on our way out to church...


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Ok, I will update and explain. I have to use my tablet due to a disabling virus on my laptop.
> 
> My wife is 52, 5'0, 98 pounds and is the classic timid librarian type (and really cute- although, she works out a lot at home). She has not the ability to stick up for herself and while very smart, has no guts in any way. Her first marriage was very abusive with a cruel husband. We are supposed to have an open, tell all relationship in every regard. She is afraid to upset me and often holds things in. So it is understandable as she knows how sensitive I am about this dolt. *I think the EA was more him manipulating her.*
> 
> ...


You're rugsweeping there chief.
Emotional affair, of course there is always manipulation, when two people meet, they are always portraying themselves in the best light, telling half truths etc but there has to be some part of her that engages and fuels it.

It wasn't one sided was it.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

BobSimmons said:


> You're rugsweeping there chief.
> Emotional affair, of course there is always manipulation, when two people meet, they are always portraying themselves in the best light, telling half truths etc but there has to be some part of her that engages and fuels it.
> 
> It wasn't one sided was it.


Well, he was the aggressor. I read the emails. He was complimenting her all over and so forth. She was mostly (but not entirely) trying to stick to business. I refused to allow her to go to his house and I think they met at Starbucks. And while there are still a few unresolved issues in my mind, and I was deeply hurt, I really do think she was just caught up in his compliments. She is the type who blushes when a guy compliments her.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I was wondering what she would say if you gave her the impression that something more happened. I don't know how you could do that. It just came to mind. Maybe some investigation independent of those women would be appropriate? Maybe I'm overreacting? I don't know.
> 
> I'll tell you something else. I would not feel comfortable trusting those other women to tell me everything about my wife. Something isn't settling well with me about that. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. There is doubt in my mind.


I am convinced, this time, I'm getting the truth. I'm just mad as hell she held it from me. Given my first's wife brutal betrayals and her EA I am very sensitive to this stuff and my mind and stomach will be churning for some time. I can appreciate her wanting to spare my feelings (as "nothing happened"), but she failed to report his actions and waited for a time when I was trying to be very dutiful and assuring to her that I faced unexpected temptation but never yielded so much as an inch. That's really my main *****, 

But what can I do with her? Beat her? We've talked it out and she knows I am quite mad at her- which is uncommon, so I guess we just let it blow over.

And about 2 or so I am calling om. She doesn't know I have his number, but it doesn't matter. If he had made advances or somewhat propositioned her I'd be on my way down to see him, but he didn't go that far. Maybe as others were around, I don't know. And I'll be checking her emails for a while.....


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> like when she said if she ever betrayed me she would never confess
> 
> That would scare the **** out of anyone in a relationship


And that remark was so totally out of character for her. It got my attention at the time.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Have you talked about consequences?

Letting it blow over sure does not sound like a consequence.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

You probably already have called him, but heer's how I'd start the call if it were I.

When he answers, the first thing I'd say was "If you do not hang up on me, this should be the last time you'll hear from me. If you do hang up on me, my next call is to you Wife."


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I would just call his wife and be done with it.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

jld said:


> Have you talked about consequences?
> 
> Letting it blow over sure does not sound like a consequence.



I agree, there needs to be a consequence other than anger. 

Be creative if you want. Ball gag and rope comes to mind. But trial separation may be more effective.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

There are not really many acceptable consequences, are there? Denying her your presence is the only one, I think. Can you do that, OP? Would it matter to her?

If she feels comfortable keeping things from you, I don't think she respects you very much. 

When a woman respects you, she is transparent with you, and seeks to please you. Longs to please you, really. Doesn't feel right in herself if she does not please you.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Well, he was the aggressor. I read the emails. He was complimenting her all over and so forth. She was mostly (but not entirely) trying to stick to business. I refused to allow her to go to his house and I think they met at Starbucks. And while there are still a few unresolved issues in my mind, and I was deeply hurt, I really do think she was just caught up in his compliments. She is the type who blushes when a guy compliments her.


That's my point, of course he was the aggressor, like a shark going in for the kill, thing is she didn't shut him down, and still after the fact, she still met up with him over those four days, and didn't tell you.

How are you sure nothing happened on this trip?

And what steps is she taking to affair proof this marriage? Are they still going to meet in the future because of her job?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

jld said:


> There are not really many acceptable consequences, are there? Denying her your presence is the only one, I think. Can you do that, OP? Would it matter to her?
> 
> If she feels comfortable keeping things from you, I don't think she respects you very much.
> 
> When a woman respects you, she is transparent with you, and seeks to please you. Longs to please you, really. Doesn't feel right in herself if she does not please you.


But many women have a "I don't want to hurt my H or make him jealous" attitude to certain things.. like being hit on by other men.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

staystrong said:


> But many women have a "I don't want to hurt my H or make him jealous" attitude to certain things.. like being hit on by other men.



But isn't that a form of disrespect too? The H is so weak that can't handle the fact she is attractive? Or is it that she wants him not to notice because she wants to reserve the right to escalate the flirting without H ****blocking the OM?

No, I think the whole "It was nothing and I knew it would hurt you so I didn't bring it up" defense is at best a sign she sees you as weak, at worse it is gas lighting to throw you off the trail that she loves the attention from other men a and doesn't want it to stop.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> And about 2 or so I am calling om. She doesn't know I have his number, but it doesn't matter. If he had made advances or somewhat propositioned her I'd be on my way down to see him, but he didn't go that far. Maybe as others were around, I don't know. And I'll be checking her emails for a while.....


 I repeat, confronting the other man, to what end? History has shown on these threads that it is unlikely to get him to stop, but will confirm to him that your wife does not respect you enough to stop it on her own, and that she values her relationship with him over being honest with you.

BTW in 4 days of being out of town with the other man, and with her willingness to openly lie to you without remorse, I doubt that you know everything. As for trusting the 2 older ladies to know about and tell you about everything that happened, they did not call you and tell you about your wife's contact with the other man on their own now did they?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> But what can I do with her? Beat her? We've talked it out and she knows I am quite mad at her- which is uncommon, so I guess we just let it blow over.


Honestly thatbpguy, 'what to do' depends on your needs and principles and how this conflicts with them. I can say however that being mad is a reaction rather than direct communication. Sometimes it's necessary to figure out what something means to you and then lay it out there. So the first you have to determine what her seeing OM means to you, if it crosses your boundaries, and whether enforcing those boundaries is more important than the risk.

If I project my own principles into your situation then here's what I come up with. While many things are important to me, respect and honesty are at the top of the list. So much so that if everything else was really good but one of those were missing then I wouldn't be happy for long. Something would have to change. So if I were in your shoes, I'd tell my wife that I love her but if she's not honest then it damages how I see her and will likely lead to me deciding the relationship isn't worth what I'm giving up (trust). I'm not telling you to say that BTW. I'm just saying it's what I would tell my wife because it's the truth based on my principles.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> But many women have a "I don't want to hurt my H or make him jealous" attitude to certain things.. like being hit on by other men.


This is true but the distinction here is 'other men' versus 'the other man'. Quite a big distinction IMO.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

TRy said:


> I repeat, confronting the other man, to what end? History has shown on these threads that it is unlikely to get him to stop, but will confirm to him that your wife does not respect you enough to stop it on her own, and that she values her relationship with him over being honest with you.
> 
> BTW in 4 days of being out of town with the other man, and with her willingness to openly lie to you without remorse, I doubt that you know everything. As for trusting the 2 older ladies to know about and tell you about everything that happened, they did not call you and tell you about your wife's contact with the other man on their own now did they?


She wasn't out of town this time. It is a 4 day conference at the Red Lion 3 miles from our house. Her time is pretty tight. The last session ends at 9. She talks to friends and then is home by 9:30. She was home on time all 4 days.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I am convinced, this time, I'm getting the truth. I'm just mad as hell she held it from me. Given my first's wife brutal betrayals and her EA I am very sensitive to this stuff and my mind and stomach will be churning for some time. I can appreciate her wanting to spare my feelings (as "nothing happened"), but she failed to report his actions and waited for a time when I was trying to be very dutiful and assuring to her that I faced unexpected temptation but never yielded so much as an inch. That's really my main *****,
> 
> But what can I do with her? Beat her? We've talked it out and she knows I am quite mad at her- which is uncommon, so I guess we just let it blow over.
> 
> And about 2 or so I am calling om. She doesn't know I have his number, but it doesn't matter. If he had made advances or somewhat propositioned her I'd be on my way down to see him, but he didn't go that far. Maybe as others were around, I don't know. And I'll be checking her emails for a while.....


Well, no. You can't beat her. You can only tell her how you feel, as you have done. You can decide how you want to live. I guess you can monitor her for a little while and not rely on those reports as complete truth. You can maybe even decide to separate, go to counseling, and/or divorce. 

Many of those are quite extreme. I'm not sure this calls for that kind of reaction. Your choice what you do, not what she does. 

Not sure what good calling him will do. I tend to think it will validate his feelings and it could drive her into his arms. It might not, too. It's a chance you will take. I hope it works well for you.

ETA: You have to be careful about threats of violence against him, too. Most men won't report them. Some will. Good luck.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

So we got home early and before we went to the store I said, "give me a few as I'm calling Sam." 

Wife: "Why?"

Me: [no response]

.......... calling and Sam answers.......

Sam: Hello

Me: Sam, this is xxx xxxxx, xxxxx xxxxx'x husband. 

Sam: [silence]

Me: I'm not mincing words, the next time you speak to her, email her, text her, call her in any fashion I'm coming for you. Do you understand? 

Sam:[long pause] [hangs up]

My wife was standing right there staring at me. I said, "as for you, I demand more honesty and respect and you are to tell me immediately if he contacts you again." She sort of huffed and walked away.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

That Sam I Am that Sam I Am I do not like that Sam I Am.

Let me know how long you are in the doghouse. Good gauge for me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> She wasn't out of town this time. It is a 4 day conference at the Red Lion 3 miles from our house. Her time is pretty tight. The last session ends at 9. She talks to friends and then is home by 9:30. She was home on time all 4 days.


 The distinction between it being out of town and her leave early in the morning and coming home late at night, does not change the fact that she had plenty of opportunity with the other man that you would not know about. The number one thing that betrayed spouses first say when they post to this board is that the wife would not have had time to do anything with the other man, only for them to later come back and say that that she found a way to find the time. 

Also, at the end of the day, those two older ladies were not committed to watching your wife every mininte that she was there so there were many lapses of coverage, thus you have no idea what really happened. And that is assuming that they have more loyalty to you over your wife and that they want to get involved in such things. Many a co-workers have covered for affairs, so careful believing that they are on your side.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> That Sam I Am that Sam I Am I do not like that Sam I Am.
> 
> Let me know how long you are in the doghouse. Good gauge for me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I won't get in it. Not for this. She is.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

TRy said:


> The distinction between it being out of town and her leave early in the morning and coming home late at night, does not change the fact that she had plenty of opportunity with the other man that you would not know about. The number one thing that betrayed spouses first say when they post to this board is that the wife would not have had time to do anything with the other man, only for them to later come back and say that that she found a way to find the time.
> 
> Also, at the end of the day, those two older ladies were not committed to watching your wife every mininte that she was there so there were many lapses of coverage, thus you have no idea what really happened. And that is assuming that they have more loyalty to you over your wife and that they want to get involved in such things. Many a co-workers have covered for affairs, so careful believing that they are on your side.


That's true, but she had a packed agenda and several people to meet about books she's writing. He was simply 'there' and between sessions and in the dinning hall (all meals provided) he would look for her. 

To be sure, I would have preferred she tell him to take a flying leap, but she just isn't like that. Just too timid and anti-confrontational.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Just too timid and anti-confrontational.


This, combined with her being a sucker for compliments, make her very vulnerable to the "friending player." You are right to play a little hard ball here.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> My wife was standing right there staring at me. I said, "as for you, I demand more honesty and respect and you are to tell me immediately if he contacts you again." She sort of huffed and walked away.


That was my wife when I put an end to her corresponding with an ex-boyfriend.

Her: "You can't tell me who I can and can not talk to!"
Me: "Oh yes I can!"

She didn't speak to me for nearly a week. I never told her that I contacted him with threats, but I think she guessed because he never tried to reach out again. 

You did good. I had a feeling she was going to react that way. Let us know how this plays out.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> That was my wife when I put an end to her corresponding with an ex-boyfriend.
> 
> Her: "You can't tell me who I can and can not talk to!"
> Me: "Oh yes I can!"
> ...


She's also flying to California Tuesday to visit her parents so by then we have to smooth this over.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I won't get in it. Not for this. She is.


No. You don't deserve to be. But she may put you in it just the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Philat said:


> This, combined with her being a sucker for compliments, make her very vulnerable to the "friending player."


Bingo.

She really is an easy mark. Add to it writers are like in some big fraternity and they pal around a lot. She just doesn't think one would hit on her.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> No. You don't deserve to be. But she may put you in it just the same.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She knows she screwed up. But because "nothing happened", she thinks I'm overreacting.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> She knows she screwed up. But because "nothing happened", she thinks I'm overreacting.


Four days of continuous hitting isn't nothing. Would she agree with this statement?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Philat said:


> Four days of continuous hitting isn't nothing. Would she agree with this statement?


Good question.

I wish I had said that to her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

No..........something bad happened and now you're both pi$$ed and your feelings afe hurt because your wife let you down on an extremly important issue. Not only that, when you reaily reported a woman hitting on you she threw her ea partner in your face. She is an educated, well read person that understands fully what an ea is and what she is doing. You do not need to be treated with disrespect.

Her huff is just more disrespect. She should have been proud of her man standing up for himself and his marriage. Instead she is angry with you............


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> She knows she screwed up. But because "nothing happened", she thinks I'm overreacting.


I doubt that. More likely she is sorry she used the incident to even the score with the redhead. Now you know he isn't done with your wife.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> No..........something bad happened and now you're both pi$$ed and your feelings afe hurt because your wife let you down on an extremly important issue. Not only that, when you reaily reported a woman hitting on you she threw her ea partner in your face. She is an educated, well read person that understands fully what an ea is and what she is doing. You do not need to be treated with disrespect.
> 
> Her huff is just more disrespect. She should have been proud of her man standing up for himself and his marriage. Instead she is angry with you............


I will agree wuth every time you state except that something bad happened. She was being watched, had too little time and this time there were no signs of problems.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> She knows she screwed up. But because "nothing happened", she thinks I'm overreacting.


Been there. Done that. Bought the pajama pants. I mean t-shirt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are making excuses for your wife. Just look at the last few pages. Or every other thread of yours. You just have an excuse for her.

You called him ? That would be a reasonable thing if he was harassing your wife or stalking him. I don't think you even have the truth from your wife. How did she explain away the reviews.

Maybe you don't want the real truth because you find the ignorance to be more convenient in terms of life situation and starting over again..


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Been there. Done that. Bought the pajama pants. I mean t-shirt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The other day I reread your entire ordeal. I have to say you have earned your stripes.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You are making excuses for your wife. Just look at the last few pages. Or every other thread of yours. You just have an excuse for her.
> 
> You called him ? That would be a reasonable thing if he was harassing your wife or stalking him. I don't think you even have the truth from your wife. How did she explain away the reviews.
> 
> Maybe you don't want the real truth because you find the ignorance to be more convenient in terms of life situation and starting over again..


I don't think so. 

I know her and I know the situation. She just broke one of our important agreements at a most inopportune time and I took great exception to it.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Me: Sam, this is xxx xxxxx, xxxxx xxxxx'x husband.
> 
> Sam: [silence]
> 
> ...


You're going through the motions but you're not getting it yet at all. Respect is commanded and not demanded. Here's the difference. Demand is saying I demand respect and her huffing about it. Command is saying if you don't respect me then we're done and if she huffs about it you either pack yours or her bags without pause. The point is when you say something, people have to believe you mean it. That means you really do have to mean it.

Listen, if you don't have it in you to follow through with something then just don't say it. And since your not getting it, let me explain something else. If you've commanded respect then there's a good chance that she'll be trying to reconcile and that she will actually have respect for you then. That means you guys may have to split up for a couple of weeks. If you're not willing to take the risk then keep quite and smile and let her see POSOM.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Did she ever explain the hotel reviews?


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

I am not handsome

-(Then how did you get two wives?)-


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> You're going through the motions but you're not getting it yet at all. Respect is commanded and not demanded. Here's the difference. Demand is saying I demand respect and her huffing about it. Command is saying if you don't respect me then we're done and if she huffs about it you either pack yours or her bags without pause. The point is when you say something, people have to believe you mean it. That means you really do have to mean it.
> 
> Listen, if you don't have it in you to follow through with something then just don't say it. And since your not getting it, let me explain something else. If you've commanded respect then there's a good chance that she'll be trying to reconcile and that she will actually have respect for you then. That means you guys may have to split up for a couple of weeks. If you're not willing to take the risk then keep quite and smile and let her see POSOM.


Well, I'm the one who beat my first wife's second lover. I never never never say anything I won't back up. I was pass that in high school.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Did she ever explain the hotel reviews?


It was a condo and I spoke with the owner. She knew who it was and it wasn't them.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

lovelyblue said:


> I am not handsome
> 
> -(Then how did you get two wives?)-


I hope I really don't have to explain.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Wifey has apologized and is making me some turnovers with blueberries she recently picked. 

I must admit, I'm a sucker for a woman who really knows how to bake.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Wifey has apologized and is making me some turnovers with blueberries she recently picked.
> 
> I must admit, I'm a sucker for a woman who really knows how to bake.


That is good. That is remorse. 

You might consider asking her if she would like to apologize to you, too. I bet she would feel better if she did.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Well, I'm the one who beat my first wife's second lover. *I never never never say anything I won't back up.* I was pass that in high school.


That's good to hear TBPG. It means this POS Sam will likely get his a$$ kicked which is great. It makes your story more frustrating though because you're wife is the one who needs to be worried and being held accountable. It doesn't seem like she believes anything you tell her.

Maybe he can write a short story about his beatdown


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

BTW, whoever it was who said wifey 'confessed' because she was mad about me telling her about the attorney was right. 

Wifey said she immediately thought I should have sent one of the others to escort the ladies and that I was asking for trouble, and I failed to recognize it. She was going to tell me about the conference issue but was looking for a better time.....


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She had the EA, right? So why are you not wielding more power on the relationship? Why is she deciding when you should be told things?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

jld said:


> She had the EA, right? So why are you not wielding more power on the relationship? Why is she deciding when you should be told things?


Sometimes in a marriage skillful negotiations outweigh brute force.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Because she isn't afraid of any consequences. At least, that's my guess. She may well have his and it seems like she does have his number. She knows how to manipulate him. She knows he wants her and loves her. She knows he wants more than anything, for her to love him. Not just to be loved, but her to love him. 

I can't say any of that is unfamiliar to me. I've got little to no room to talk. I just hope someone else can do better than I did.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Sometimes in a marriage skillful negotiations outweigh brute force.


Well, she must be some negotiator then . . .


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I do however, bp, think you've handled it well, so far.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Seriously, though, BP, what is holding you back? Are you scared to lose her?

If you could get over that, I think she would start to respect you. That is essential for her to love you, imo.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

jld said:


> She had the EA, right? So why are you not wielding more power on the relationship? Why is she deciding when you should be told things?





thatbpguy said:


> Sometimes in a marriage skillful negotiations outweigh brute force.


uh? that was a straw man answer. jld isn't talking about 'sometimes'. She's specifically talking about someone having an EA and then not having to do some form of lifting.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Wifey has apologized and is making me some turnovers with blueberries she recently picked.
> 
> I must admit, I'm a sucker for a woman who really knows how to bake.


Blueberry turnovers! Now that's just fightin' dirty!

She knows you as well as you know her. b-berry turnovers is like kryptonite to staying p1ssed at her.

She probably wields a banana nut bread like a breadsword*!* I mean broadsword.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> Wifey has apologized and is making me some turnovers with blueberries she recently picked.
> 
> I must admit, I'm a sucker for a woman who really knows how to bake.



She broke NC by not reporting OM contacting her. Its a lie by omission, and to me, that's breaking NC.
All your posts so far show she just doesn't get it, says you're overreacting
Tries to protect OM
Wants to rugsweep
Walks off in a huff when you make contact? Seriously?

So up to this point, she has not shown True Remorse, then all she has to do is say sorry and bake some turnovers? *That isn't consistent with her previous actions*. And it seems she does know how to manipulate you into sweeping this under the rug. But it's your call. 

Good luck with that.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

jld said:


> Seriously, though, BP, what is holding you back? Are you scared to lose her?
> 
> If you could get over that, I think she would start to respect you. That is essential for her to love you, imo.


That's an interesting thought. Maybe I am. I lost the original love if my life and I didn't think I'd survive it. But this is a different marriage entirely. But you did hit a nerve- sadly.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> She broke NC by not reporting OM contacting her. Its a lie by omission, and to me, that's breaking NC.
> All your posts so far show she just doesn't get it, says you're overreacting
> Tries to protect OM
> Wants to rugsweep
> ...


Honesty, it's not as bad as you make it sound. She was at a conference and he came and talked to her. She did nothing (I am told) to lead him on. Eventually mad she told me and I called him and made it crystal clear to wifey I demand much better from her. She gets it.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

jld said:


> Seriously, though, BP, what is holding you back? Are you scared to lose her?
> 
> If you could get over that, I think she would start to respect you. That is essential for her to love you, imo.





thatbpguy said:


> That's an interesting thought. Maybe I am. I lost the original love if my life and I didn't think I'd survive it. But this is a different marriage entirely. But you did hit a nerve- sadly.


uh oh. I've multi-quoted jld and and you twice in a row. This must mean I need to leave the thread.

Just want to say I agree with jld on this. We teach people how to threat us and this is how you're teaching your wife to threat you. Man you have to know you'll still be okay by yourself. Only then can be great with someone else and great for someone else. Only then will you set boundaries and gain the respect you're looking for.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Yum! Added homemade whipped cream. I tried to add an image. I hope it's somewhere..... well, it's upside down....


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> That's an interesting thought. Maybe I am. I lost the original love if my life and I didn't think I'd survive it. But this is a different marriage entirely. But you did hit a nerve- sadly.


BP, did you have rules to your reconciliation? If so, has she formally acknowledged that she broke one of the rules?

Have you asked her if she would like to apologize to you?

BP, setting rules and enforcing them can actually be very stabilizing for a relationship. Yeah, it makes you the heavy, but she might like that. Seeing you enforce a boundary should lead her to respect you more. A woman needs to genuinely respect her man to feel passionate about him, BP.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

jld said:


> BP, did you have rules to your reconciliation? If so, has she formally acknowledged that she broke one of the rules?
> 
> Have you asked her if she would like to apologize to you?
> 
> BP, setting rules and enforcing them can actually be very stabilizing for a relationship. Yeah, it makes you the heavy, but she might like that. Seeing you enforce a boundary should lead her to respect you more. A woman needs to genuinely respect her man to feel passionate about him, BP.


In this current issue, she recognized her mistake and has apologized. Time to move forward. In her EA, I think she never fully came to terms with it, but we worked through it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> In this current issue, she recognized her mistake and has apologized. Time to move forward. *In her EA, I think she never fully came to terms with it, but we worked through it.*


How do you not come to terms with it, but work through it?

I am sorry to be kind of pushy with you, BP. You will certainly do as you like. I just think you would both be happier with more clarity and firmness on your end. Jmo.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> In her EA, I think she never fully came to terms with it, but we worked through it.


Oh boy.
I was gonna chime in with a comment about jld and thundarr being too over the top... but then saw this. 

You've been around here a while, you are a good guy and not a dumb man by any means -- but you have GOT to know if you read this on someone else's thread, you'd roll your eyes like we all did... yes?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

2xloser said:


> Oh boy.
> *I was gonna chime in with a comment about jld and thundarr being too over the top...* but then saw this.
> 
> You've been around here a while, you are a good guy and not a dumb man by any means -- but you have GOT to know if you read this on someone else's thread, you'd roll your eyes like we all did... yes?


Over the top! Yes it happens from time to time .


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Over the top! Yes it happens from time to time .


Speak for yourself, Thundarr.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

What I mean is that she felt she was making a true writer friend. They tend to mix male to female a lot (artists, ya know). She kept it from me for a variety of reasons but as I have learned from experience and sites like TAM, I picked up early warnings. But she did as well and sought out help. She went to a trusted person at church and he was adamant to immediately cease contact with om and then make things right by telling me. But she didn't have it in her to just sit me down, but I got almost all of it from her. You'd just have to know her to understand what I'm saying. She didn't have the courage so she gave me the signal to confront her. Granted, I still have a couple of concerns, but they are minor. I was hurt, but we have more of a friendship marriage and it's hard to explain. That said, we do love each other.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> She's also flying to California Tuesday to visit her parents so by then we have to smooth this over.


 Sounds like she has you ready to rug sweep again.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> So she had a small confession. That posom who was after her was at a writer's conference in June and he was all over her for 4 days. Talking, flirting... coming to where she was eating... And I'm like 'what the friggin' hell'! You're supposed to report this as it happens. Never told me when she called in the evenings. Never even told me when she got home....



You'll never be able to trust her. Have you thought about getting rid of her?

And you know what? I don't believe she did fend him off. I think she dove right in. And if you don't get rid of her, then shouldn't going to these conferences, or more to the point NOT going, be part of the boundaries assuming its not mandated by an employer?

But bottom line, you'll never get the complete truth from her, she'll always hide something.

And again, the very fact she didn't tell you leads me to believe that she boffed him while at this conference.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

vellocet said:


> You'll never be able to trust her. Have you thought about getting rid of her?
> 
> And you know what? I don't believe she did fend him off. I think she dove right in. And if you don't get rid of her, then shouldn't going to these conferences, or more to the point NOT going, be part of the boundaries assuming its not mandated by an employer?
> 
> ...


He needs to tell the guys wife.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

If I would have cheated on someone, I wouldn't be going to conferences that have me spending several nights away if an employer didn't mandate it.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

tom67 said:


> He needs to tell the guys wife.


The thought has crossed my mind. And normally I'm a big fan of doing just that but wifey (and verified by her friends) seem to think it's just his manner and way of talking. In other words, they are after me to cool my jets. I did call him but am also considering their advice. I do trust her friends. Ladies in their early 70's, know this guy pretty well, friends with my wife.... I mean, it's like they're saying that within this mythical fraternity of writers they talk like lovers more than friends. That said, I did remind them that he was clearly chasing her not that long ago. They poo-poo'd that and say it's water under the bridge...

I did check her email this morning and the emails from that timeframe and a few days after have all been deleted. At first I could feel myself starting to get upset, but then I do recall that as she was with her friends at the conference, almost all her mail would be spam and there were a few items in folders. So this isn't a big red flag either. She and her friends email constantly so when together, I shouldn't expect any.

One thing I did find was an email from a guy she was in love with when we met. They haven't corresponded for quite some time. He's remarried and it was a pretty tame email. Just saying hello and hoping we were all doing well.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well like the late Doug Harvey said...
"You Make The Call"


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Well like the late Doug Harvey said...
> "You Make The Call"


It is an odd situation. I have been to one conference that she is a director of. They meet for 3 days at a beautiful place on the Washington coast. The writers do act like they are all long lost cousins- hugging, cheek kissing.... I will never understand artists. So I am wanting to be as fair as possible and not make a total jerk of myself.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

I myself have never accepted the "he talks like that with everyone" argument, if the talk is inappropriate. Just because it is a habit doesn't make it OK. My W tried to give me the same line about one of her "boyfriends." Oh, yeah, I said, so does he talk about anal sex with all of his casual acquaintances?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Philat said:


> I myself have never accepted the "he talks like that with everyone" argument, if the talk is inappropriate. Just because it is a habit doesn't make it OK. My W tried to give me the same line about one of her "boyfriends." Oh, yeah, I said, so does he talk about anal sex with all of his casual acquaintances?


:redcard:
Sure they all do don't you know.
Good grief.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just tell his wife. Then you can move on.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

turnera said:


> Just tell his wife. Then you can move on.


While telling the wife is the right thing to do, and might make him feel better that he isn't getting away with treating her like dogshyte, he won't necessarily be able to move on since he is still married to someone that cheated, hides things from him, and has to go on business trips without him.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I have considered telling his wife, but here is why I have opted not to:

1) My wife's trusted friends tell me he is always the big flirt and this was nothing out of the ordinary. It is not lost on me he was chasing her before, but I am being told probably not this time.

2) I don't have her number. I would have the other day had I had it. I also can get their address, but sending a letter is not the way I like dealing with things.

3) That means going down in person. That's fine. I'll confront anyone. But, before I personally confront I want to be sure that I have all the facts and they point a certain way. I am certain she knows he's a flirt and unless I know he's really hitting on her and have some sort of tangible proof, all I'm doing is looking like some crybaby. Not my style.

In other words, he may have been just being himself (for the most part) and no one is telling me much different. I was as upset with my wife withholding this from me.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> In other words, he may have been just being himself


Bullsh!t

If he has been caught messing around with someone elses wife, then he needs to conduct himself in a different manner, or he just may flirt with the wrong guy's wife in the future.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> The thought has crossed my mind. And normally I'm a big fan of doing just that but wifey (and verified by her friends) seem to think it's just his manner and way of talking. In other words, they are after me to cool my jets. I did call him but am also considering their advice. I do trust her friends. Ladies in their early 70's, know this guy pretty well, friends with my wife.... I mean, it's like they're saying that within this mythical fraternity of writers they talk like lovers more than friends. That said, I did remind them that he was clearly chasing her not that long ago. They poo-poo'd that and say it's water under the bridge...
> 
> 
> One thing I did find was an email from a guy she was in love with when we met. They haven't corresponded for quite some time. He's remarried and it was a pretty tame email. Just saying hello and hoping we were all doing well.


My XWW's toxic affair enabling friends would have likely said something like the above to me back in the day as well. That doesn't mean you have the same problem I did. I certainly didn't trust the skanks my XWW was hanging out with.

Does she communicate with all of her old lovers? That doesn't sound like a healthy mix.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

FWIW- I would tell his wife as well. She has a right to know.


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## tpz (Mar 31, 2014)

So the OM has an EA with your wife, and then later spends 4 days flirting and "all over" your wife again when he has the opportunity?

He was being "himself"? He is not remorseful at all, othewise he would have been cordial but for the most part avoided your wife. 

Does his wife know about the EA?

By not telling his wife about what you know, and what you are concerned about, arent you robbing her of the opportunity to confront him and work it out in their marriage?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thatbpguy said:


> In other words, he may have been just being himself (for the most part) and no one is telling me much different. I was as upset with my wife withholding this from me.


You're not understanding. You don't tell her because it may have been innocent on your wife's part. Or it was just flirting. You tell her because HIS wife can help control YOUR wife by keeping her husband's hands off of YOUR wife.

btw, OF COURSE your WIFE'S friends told you it was harmless.

Nobody would expect otherwise.

Duh.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> btw, OF COURSE your WIFE'S friends told you it was harmless.
> 
> Nobody would expect otherwise.
> 
> Duh.


 :iagree:
Not only are these ladies his wife's friends, but they are also the other man's friends, yet the OP believes that these ladies have his best interest at heart. It really amazes me that his wife hung out with her former EA affair partner for 4 days behind his back, and yet in the end he will let her sweep it under the rug. Now that the wife has established that her secretly seeing her other man has no down side, why would she not do it again?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

TRy said:


> :iagree:
> Not only are these ladies his wife's friends, but they are also the other man's friends, yet the OP believes that these ladies have his best interest at heart. It really amazes me that his wife hung out with her former EA affair partner for 4 days behind his back, and yet in the end he will let her sweep it under the rug. Now that the wife has established that her secretly seeing her other man has no down side, why would she not do it again?


:iagree::iagree:


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> 1) My wife's trusted friends tell me he is always the big flirt and *this was nothing out of the ordinary.* It is not lost on me he was chasing her before, but I am being told probably not this time.
> 
> *In other words, he may have been just being himself *(for the most part) and no one is telling me much different. I was as upset with my wife withholding this from me.


Again, why would this be OK? It just means that ordinarily he is a sleazebag who needs to be put in his place.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Philat said:


> Again, why would this be OK? It just means that ordinarily he is a sleazebag who needs to be put in his place.


I put him on notice. Now it's up to him.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BP,

Have you ever considered the possibility that the reason your wife gets hit on so much by this guy is because deep inside she wants to be hit on by him. All she has to do is give off the signals. She doesn't have to overtly encourage him. Her body language tells him all she wants him to know. 

She's not innocent in this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> BP,
> 
> Have you ever considered the possibility that the reason your wife gets hit on so much by this guy is because deep inside she wants to be hit on by him. All she has to do is give off the signals. She doesn't have to overtly encourage him. Her body language tells him all she wants him to know.
> 
> ...


Not this time. I spoke with her two friends and he came looking for her and she did nothing to encourage him.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> Not this time. I spoke with her two friends and he came looking for her and she did nothing to encourage him.


 Breaking the no contact agreement, your wife sees her emotional affair part behind your back for 4 days, and all she needs to do is have 2 of her friends (that are also friends of her affair partner) tell you that you have nothing to worry about, and you are fine with that? Really? That is all it takes? Wow, just wow.

I do not think that there is a single cheater that could not get 2 friends to cover for them with their spouse. They would love to have a spouse like you. You make it so easy.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Wifey said she immediately thought I should have sent one of the others to escort the ladies and that I was asking for trouble, and I failed to recognize it.


Projection and minimization. I'll leave it at that. You are a better man than me, or weaker, because I'd be done.


> Eventually () she told me


Interesting rewrite. She told you AFTER you did something she felt was equal to her transgression. You never escort those women, you most likely would never know. If she waited four days and told you in a normal moment, I'd buy her argument of "waiting for the right time." She told you out of spite no, she doesn't get it and apparently neither do you.

It's called open communication.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She kept it a secret until you mentioned someone hitting on you. Her jealousy/anger overwhelmed her desire to keep it secret and she hit you over the head that her affair partner was all over her for FOUR days.

I just don't think you're even. I'm not sure his courting her for four days was so awful for her. It just told her she's still got it.

Telling you was her oopsy moment.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you are right not to involve his wife, BP. I am not sure you even needed to contact _him_. Your issue is with your wife, and what you expect from _her._

My concern is her lack of respect for your boundaries on this issue. But another thing to look at is her lack of trust in your ability to handle it maturely. That is what she said, right? 

Without getting defensive (prideful), challenge yourself to really take a look at that and see how much truth there may be in it, and what you could do to improve it.

Your issue, again, is with _her_. Unless she is _asking_ you to contact him or his wife, I would focus on your relationship with your wife. That is where you have the most influence.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> This is just a stray rant.
> 
> As most of you know my first (love of my life) wife was a serial beteayer. My wonderful second wife had a small EA a few years ago. The deal was zero contact and if she saw him at a writer's conference, she was to either ignore or report all contacts.
> 
> ...


I read this and checked your other posts for June, but I couldn't find a reference to this. Did I just overlook it, or didn't you post it at the time?? :scratchhead:


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

thummper said:


> I read this and checked your other posts for June, but I couldn't find a reference to this. Did I just overlook it, or didn't you post it at the time?? :scratchhead:


I'm not sure what you are asking because it just happened, he couldn't write about in June. Also, I just realize how much I do not like her reaction. You told her about the incident the next day, she waited over a month. So, in my mind, she wasn't going to tell you. It just happened she got angry, she got jealous and had to put you in your place. Sorry, your marriage is bumpy, for her to basically say "4 vs 1 I win" is dumb.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

thummper said:


> I read this and checked your other posts for June, but I couldn't find a reference to this. Did I just overlook it, or didn't you post it at the time?? :scratchhead:


Her brief EA was 2 to 3 years ago. It wss in June she wss at the writer's conference when he was bothering her.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> She kept it a secret until you mentioned someone hitting on you. Her jealousy/anger overwhelmed her desire to keep it secret and she hit you over the head that her affair partner was all over her for FOUR days.
> 
> I just don't think you're even. I'm not sure his courting her for four days was so awful for her. It just told her she's still got it.
> 
> Telling you was her oopsy moment.


You may be right. But I am 100% convinced nothing happened. I was just upset she didn't tell me. She didn't want to upset me (which, in turn upsets her) but I think (as mentioned) she was a little green eyed when I told her of the drunk attorney and decided to spill it. Of course, it was also after she had the headphones.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> You may be right. But I am 100% convinced nothing happened. I was just upset she didn't tell me.


 I am 100% sure that she got away with breaking no contact behind your back with her former affair partner with no consequences. I am also 100% sure that your wife will secretly be in contact with this other man again, where if you find out, she will again tell you that nothing happened, that he was pursuing her, and that she did not tell you because she knew that you would get angry about it.

As for what happened between your wife and affair partner during those 4 days, I it makes no sense that you 100% trust your wife and her affair partner's friends assurances that nothing happened. Think for a minute here. Many cheaters and their friends do not consider emotional affairs (EA) to be cheating, so when they say that nothing happened they are speaking a different language than you. Also, would you be surprised to learn that most cheaters cheat in front of friends that are primarily their friends, where the spouse is a secondary friend, knowing that these friends will cover for them if the spouse calls them?


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Many BSs were at one point, certain they weren't being cheated on. 

Anyways, what you do know is she broke an old agreement. 

I would say have a serious talk and reaffirm boundaries. I'd also start to suspect just about everything, like you have. 

Why? Because she's shown you shouldn't trust her to be honest. 

That's not being paranoid. That's being logical.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

awake1 said:


> Many BSs were at one point, certain they weren't being cheated on.


 A recent example of this is a thread on this site titled "Help with marriage" started by harveymugman. At first not only was he sure that his wife was not cheating on him, but he was downright aggressive with people on this board trying to warn him otherwise. He said such things as " trust me there is no cheating going on" in post #10 on that thread, "I'm not sure what you've been through Gus, and I appreciate you wanting to help, but I think you are wayoff base here" in post #16, and " I would know if she took off enough time to have any sort of affair. It just isn't happening" in post #21, only to finally discover that she was in fact having an affair in post #58 where he said "I regret to say that as of one week ago I found she was cheating on me. Inconceivable." Sadly, not only was she having an affair, but after being caught she refused to end the affair and moved out. His wife lied to him every step of the way.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/209146-help-marriage-4.html#post9849290



awake1 said:


> Because she's shown you shouldn't trust her to be honest.
> 
> That's not being paranoid. That's being logical.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Tell her you think you need a poly. As she waited a month before telling you this. Even if you believe her it would hammer home the damage she has done to your trust by waiting. Her reaction might be suprising...I bet she was enjoying the come ons even if she did not act on them. But to me it is a betrayal that she did not disclose that 1st night. My self I would make damn sure she knew it too...I would also nuke the other man in front of his wife...so he would be sick of the thought of talking to your wife on the future...but that is how I roll.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

thatbpguy said:


> You may be right. But I am 100% convinced nothing happened.


Why?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> I bet she was enjoying the come ons even if she did not act on them. But to me it is a betrayal that she did not disclose that 1st night.


 That in a nutshell summons the issue up. Emotional affairs (EA) damage marriages, even if nothing happened as to sex, because the cheating spouse begins to enjoy the attention of the EA partner at the expense of disconnecting from the spouse that cannot be told, and because of the betrayal involved in keeping it a secret from the cheated on spouse that is made out to be unreasonable.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If she truly cared about BP, she would have warned the OM off the first time. Then when he didn't get the hint she could have taken him out of the crowd and ***** slapped him and told him to stay the hell away from her. 

But she didn't did she?

Four days. 4. Four days she allowed him to continue hitting on her. She was riding the high of the ego boost she was getting from him. 

This woman is going to cheat again in the future. Next time it will be a PA. She's got a taste for it now and she knows BP will not enforce his warnings.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

TRy said:


> A recent example of this is a thread on this site titled "Help with marriage" started by harveymugman. At first not only was he sure that his wife was not cheating on him, but he was downright aggressive with people on this board trying to warn him otherwise. He said such things as " trust me there is no cheating going on" in post #10 on that thread, "I'm not sure what you've been through Gus, and I appreciate you wanting to help, but I think you are wayoff base here" in post #16, and " I would know if she took off enough time to have any sort of affair. It just isn't happening" in post #21, only to finally discover that she was in fact having an affair in post #58 where he said "I regret to say that as of one week ago I found she was cheating on me. Inconceivable." Sadly, not only was she having an affair, but after being caught she refused to end the affair and moved out. His wife lied to him every step of the way.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/209146-help-marriage-4.html#post9849290
> 
> :iagree::iagree::iagree:


Well, why do you think I downloaded a VAR app on my tablet...


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

BP excuse me if I'm a little confused, but didn't you report in one of your earlier threads that your wife attended some kind of event where she and another man registered there as a couple? When confronted, her comment, I believe was, "I don't think you have anything to worry about." How did that scenario play out? Was she in fact staying with some other guy at this hotel? How did she convince you that nothing happened between them, or did she simply refuse to talk about what went on there leaving you forever wondering? I don't seem to recall how this all played out. I hope I don't have you confused with someone else....wouldn't surprise me if I did.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

thummper said:


> BP excuse me if I'm a little confused, but didn't you report in one of your earlier threads that your wife attended some kind of event where she and another man registered there as a couple? When confronted, her comment, I believe was, "I don't think you have anything to worry about." How did that scenario play out? Was she in fact staying with some other guy at this hotel? How did she convince you that nothing happened between them, or did she simply refuse to talk about what went on there leaving you forever wondering? I don't seem to recall how this all played out. I hope I don't have you confused with someone else....wouldn't surprise me if I did.


I was 100% convinced she was having a PA. It all added up. However, I contacted the owner of condo and it wasn't them. I also contacted and confided in one of her friends and she swore wifey was with them the whole time. It was hard to believe but it checked out. 

And while i still have a couple unanswered questions, I have let the matter drop.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Thanks, BP, for clearing that up. They say that there are no coincidences, but apparently there are a few.


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