# Three strikes - from the Mrs.



## Mrs_Mathias

It’s so hard to know where to begin this story…

I am a cheating wife. I have been married 11 years to a man I fell head over heels for when I was 19 years old. I am now 36 and we have a 2 year old son. He has a thread here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61098-third-strike.html and I wanted to write as well, but we decided that it would be better for me to have a separate thread. His thread is definitely more concise, and covers the main issues. Mine is going to ramble on, and may be too wordy for most to read.

__________

With Matt, I had an absolute fated sense that this was the man I was meant to marry approximately 20 minutes into our first real conversation together. I’d seen him around, but hadn’t really interacted with him on a personal level for a few months and then when we first talked, it was instant. As I mentioned, I was 19, he was 20 and in the middle of a divorce from his first wife. I panicked, wasn’t ready for that type of emotional involvement, and we both dated other people and sort of avoided this relationship until I was 21. We’ve been together ever since.

I have always been a total workaholic. I have come to recognize over the past few months in therapy that I have a lot of self-esteem and identity issues that I bury in my job and seeking a sense of “success”. I am a music instructor at a small rural community college, direct operas for a regional company, and work as an artistic administrator for a summer program in NYC. I have always had multiple jobs at one time, and really never had any hobbies or desires for my leisure time except to do more work. I love my work and am incredibly passionate about sharing it with students, performers, and audience members. I suppose it’s like a religion, kind of.

Several years ago, Matt told me that he was unhappy in our relationship. That he felt I poured all of my passion and energy in to my job, and brought him home a zombie at night. He was absolutely right, and I was horrified that he felt so alone in our marriage. I promised that I would find more time for us, and would work on being a more present partner in our life. Shortly after we found out I was pregnant. We weren’t preventing, but it was a surprise after many years of unprotected sex. My primary doctor had just told me that I would probably have to seek fertility treatments if we really wanted a child, but apparently that was not the case. 

The pregnancy and birth of our son really brought us together, gave us something new to focus on and a sense of connection that had been missing. We have come to realize in these past few months since D-Day #1 that it has been years since we had something we really enjoyed together aside from our son, which has maybe been a stopgap. Having a baby has been incredibly wonderful and difficult for me at the same time. Because my sense of “who I am” is almost completely defined by my professional ambitions/achievements, I have not been able to find a balance between life as a mom and maintaining the overwhelming schedule I built for myself pre-baby and felt/feel like I need to maintain to still be “me” beyond the baby.

Matt has always been incredibly supportive of me and my career ambitions. He understands the hectic schedule of rehearsals, the travel time, and immersion that I feel when I am mid-show. He knew that I was feeling scared of losing all I’d worked for when I became a mom, and made sure to tell/show me that he wanted me to be able to do both. He has handled a primary load of parenting much of the time, and has been willing to travel with me so that we could be together as a family.

However, that has been unsurprisingly stressful for him. As our son has grown, Matt has rightfully felt like he has continued to sacrifice things to maintain our family, and I continue to work, work, work. Over the last year, I began sensing that dissatisfaction, and didn’t know how to handle it. I was also facing comments from my mother about how lucky I was to have Matt, but they always felt like a hidden insult to indicate that I was not a good wife/mother. My sister was going through a divorce, and my mom would call to talk about her issues and it would always end up with me feeling inadequate. I let these feelings overwhelm me. I started handling it in the worst way possible, projecting my negativity onto my husband and assuming he felt the same way. When he would be frustrated or silent, I filled in the gaps with my own insecurities and identity issues. During a particularly difficult transition after I had returned from an out of town show after several weeks, he commented that “things were easier without me around” for him and our son. I was crushed and just let that single comment eat away at me, using it as verification of all the negativity that I had been projecting, instead of an isolated expression of frustration. I continued to build walls between us, because I didn’t know how to face someone that I felt resented me, and I didn’t know how to lessen my work commitments to actually help improve the situation at home. I compartmentalize like a world champion, and just shoved it all away and continued to live day to day.

The OM had entered my life as one of my students three and a half years ago. Also from the day I met him, I felt a connection – not like the I know this is the person I’m supposed to marry, like it was with Matt – but just an immediate ease and energy awareness, I guess. My best descriptor is that I feel like I am an antenna tuned to his frequency. I didn’t think anything of it in particular, I just knew that we got along and I enjoyed working with him. I have always been close to my students, I think it’s really difficult to work in an artistic environment and foster that kind of creation without a willingness to be emotionally invested in the other people and vision you share.

It has become very clear that I have substantial boundary issues. I went through a period in college where my family did not approve of my artistic pursuits, and was terribly alone. I never wanted my students to feel that way, so I have always been available for them. Several have lived in our house over the past years, and I poured my energy into being there for them when needed, instead of in my relationship at home. I have also come to realize that an important emotional factor for me is to feel “essential”. I want to feel like my work environment, relationships, whatever is different because it’s me and not someone else doing that. In previous years, I had felt that with Matt. We were united as we worked through school, found jobs, dealt with his ex-wife, etc. Gradually we began living more and more separately, and as I felt unneeded even as a parent with him, I just shut down.

The OM and I shared a close friendship. We spoke or corresponded every day, even when school was not in session. I honestly did not realize what was happening, because I routinely corresponded with many of my students on a very regular basis. Things shifted when he was no longer a student, but continued to work as an assistant with me, doing choreography for my groups and acting as a sounding board for my artistic ideas and goals. I had recently lost a colleague that was equally passionate about our creations, and I filled that void with the OM.

In April or so, Matt became concerned about my relationship with OM. I was over my head in what has been the most difficult working situation of my career to date, and desperately trying to create a successful show under near impossible conditions. My engagement at home was at an all-time low, and I had shut down communication between us (mostly unknowingly) because I didn’t want to complain about work when I believed that Matt hated me for being so focused on work. I shared instead with OM, my frustrations, fears, sadness, etc.

When Matt first approached me about having an inappropriate relationship with OM, I was shocked and absolutely in disbelief. I know that I harbored no “romantic” attachment to him, and couldn’t recognize the emotional affair that had been happening for some time because I simply saw OM as one of my best friends, an ally in my professional endeavors. I assured Matt that there was absolutely nothing between us, and I believed it to be true.

Matt wanted me to be more present with him, and I wanted to do that. I just needed to get through the show first, etc. etc. There was always something else that had to be finished before I gave my energy to him. It was terrible, and I know I hurt him with my inability to bring my energy back home.

Things shifted for OM and I in May before I left for my summer job in NYC. We were working in my office together and spoke of how we’d miss each other over the summer and were looking forward to getting back to work next fall. I stood to hug him goodbye and when I stepped back he kissed me. I was surprised, I had honestly not had any romantic thoughts/fantasies of him, and never even considered something like this a possibility. However, in that moment, I felt like I loved him and it was the culmination of a connection I had been missing. I kissed him back. We stopped and said goodbye, and I left for NYC 2 days later, while he stayed in my home as a housesitter.

We continued corresponding as normal, not referencing what had happened for several weeks. Eventually, we broached the subject, I told him that Matt and my son were the most important things to me, and he said he understood that, wanted me to be happy and just loved me anyway. It was/is despicable of me, but I craved that feeling. “Unqualified” love, or whatever. No judgment about my dedication to my jobs, no feelings of inadequacy, no wondering what he was thinking/feeling and projecting my own emotions in it’s place. We let the EA fully develop with I love yous and our communications increased, even though I was away. Gradually sexually tinged jokes/comments began to increase, and we developed a cyber affair that really exploded after my husband and son went back home from NYC and I was alone there for 3 weeks. We webcammed while drunk twice, and sent explicit messages to each other.

When I came home from NYC, I was excited to see both my husband and OM. I had invited friends/former students over that night for a welcome home party, and took the opportunity when picking up some groceries to stop by OM house and greet him. He was happy to see me and kissed me again. I was happy to see him, and yet felt uneasy at the same time, as I gradually began to realize what had passed between us over the summer and I didn’t know how to get out of that situation. We’d promised/planned/teased about a lot of things that I suddenly didn’t think I wanted to go through with, but I also didn’t want to hurt him. It was a mixed up mess for me emotionally. 

That night, we had the party, I thought things were fine, and then after people had left and I was going to bed with Matt, he asked to see my FB. I knew he knew. Thus began D-Day #1. OM’s ex-girlfriend had been looking at his account without his knowledge, and passed a note to Matt, telling him about the online affair. It was an awful feeling. I confessed what had happened, let him read the messages, told him about the kissing, and told him how I felt that I was in love with two people. I immediately sent a message to the OM ending it and wanted to try to fix what had happened in my marriage.

We went to counseling, both individually and together. I continued to struggle with why I’d done what I did, why I still felt so attached to OM. I knew he was still in the area, and I knew that our affair had ruined any chance of us ever working together again. I maintained NC for approximately 2 months. Things were up and down in what I expect is typical for a recovery attempt. Then one day we saw OM walking on the road to work. It was gut-wrenching for me. All of my confusion boiled up and I felt so terrible for what I’d done to both Matt and OM. I felt responsible for ruining OM’s life, for dooming him to a crappy job and solitary existence until he made enough money to move back towards his family/friends. I knew that he had chosen to stay in our area because of me and our work (pre-affair), and I felt overwhelmingly guilty for the current condition of his life.

It ate at me for a while before I just decided to “see if he was ok”. I drove through where he worked and ordered a soda. He smiled, I smiled, and that was that. NC broken. I compartmentalized, rationalized, lied to myself and everyone around me. On my second trip through, I asked how he was, and he said fine, but bored. I decided I could at least help with the boredom, since I’d been the source of his relative entrapment, and started leaving books on his porch at home for him to read. When he was done, he’d put them back out there a week or so later, and I’d drive by and pick them up. It was stupid and non-sensical, but I felt like he’d know I was sorry for his situation, cared, and wanted his life to be better.

I was still struggling in my relationship with Matt (I’m sure you’re thinking, no duh!) to open back up and find a connection between us that was more than roommates/parenting. I allowed my feelings for OM to fester, to cloud my thinking and perception of what I was working on. After 3 months of roller coaster recovery, I was still feeling lost, lacking a sense of self, and discouraged whether Matt and I were making any progress. Matt had made a comment a while back about hoping I would find my epiphany and rediscover what made me happy and made me me again, and I started to wonder if OM was that epiphany, if I had somehow missed a sign from the universe and it was staring me in the face all along.

I should insert here that I am an information seeker – it is important for me to have knowledge, to understand, to experience all aspects of an issue. In many ways I am probably borderline obsessive – a decision to get a fish tank becomes a 3 month exploration online and escalates to obtaining a 55 gallon saltwater tank, instead of a $10 tank from Wal-mart. So I began to obsess over this renewed sense of split in my heart and how could I ever give my whole self to Matt again, if OM had claimed part of me?

I made plans to see a musical out of town with some friends. The day before, I found out that OM was in the area and we could see the show together as a group. I lied and schemed to make that happen. I rationalized that we could hang out as friends, have a sense of normalcy, and I could get a better grip on what was between OM and I. We saw the show, hung out, had some drinks. My “friends” arranged to sleep in the other room so OM and I could have time to talk. We did, mostly insubstantial things at first, then some roundabout talk regarding our relationship/feelings for each other. We basically decided that we probably would never really see each other again/interact, and I kissed him goodbye. Of course, it escalated, with him saying if this was our last night together, he wanted to be with me, and I said yes.

I know it was wrong. I know it was incredibly self-destructive. I know that the whole series of choices I had made since seeing him on the street that day were ruining everything I claimed to be working towards and wanting with my husband. And yet the obsessive part of me, the “need to know” if OM was really the right person all along, wouldn’t let go. We had sex. It was not what I expected. Sex with my husband has always been a transformative experience. We both feel almost out of our bodies, connected with one another, completely as one. I think part of me expected that same type of connection with OM. That if he was magically fated for me by the universe this would confirm that and then we could figure out what that meant later. Part of me also wanted that not to happen. To prove that he was not destined for me like that and I could go back to my husband knowing that my heart could be his fully. It is completely selfish, totally cruel and inconsiderate, but I didn’t know any other way to ever know that answer. Matt and I had talked over the previous months about the division in my heart, and I knew I wanted more for him and he wanted more for himself than someone who was always half in love with someone else.

We said goodbye the next morning. No fanfare, nothing poignant or a feeling of wanting to hold on. I went home and lived in a numb haze for a few days as I tried to piece together what I felt. How could I have jeopardized my marriage for something that wasn’t the fated experience I had built up in my mind? It was a weird sense of relief – the split in my heart seemed to be gone – and crushing depression at the same time because it meant that I was really just a terrible, selfish, blind, heartless person.

I poured it out of me to Matt one night, that I knew I hadn’t been doing the right things for our recovery, that I knew I needed to get past my own sense of hurt and confusion and just focus on being what he needed and helping him with his emotions. For the first time in a month, we actually talked, I felt this overwhelming sense of hope and almost peace within myself, I guess. I didn’t feel responsible for OM. I didn’t feel like I needed to anything or be anyone except try to be really present and whole for my husband. It was weird to feel those emotions that had been tying me up for months suddenly not there. I felt like I could focus on the future for the first time.

And then it all fell apart again. D-Day #2 was this past Saturday. OM’s ex found out from our friends that we were together that night. It came back to my husband. I behaved completely desperately again, lying and lying and lying about the PA until there was no space for me to lie again.

There is no incentive for him to attempt to rebuild any trust with me. I cannot prove to him the change in my heart, except by trying to be the best person I can be for him and our son as we go forward. The current plan is to file for divorce. I plan to use every day until we sign on that dotted line to be a whole person, to show Matt my heart and my love, and to attempt to repair the shattered heart I have left him with. I will do ANYTHING to help him heal from this. The grief and regret that I have for hurting a man who has been so selfless to me is absolutely overwhelming sometimes, but I am also working to not let those emotions drown me. 

I want to be the kind of wife he deserves. I want to communicate honestly with him, to stop projecting emotions and accept that honest expression means sharing the good and bad thoughts with each other, not compartmentalizing the bad to “protect” the other person. I want to be the kind of mother my son deserves. I know that there is nothing in my past track record over the last six months to indicate that I can actually do that. The change in me is not visible without time. He certainly has no incentive to give me that time. I don’t know what else to do, other than pursue the divorce if that is what is really what he wants/needs, and yet continue to try to be clear that I want to make things work, that I believe we can rebuild from the crushing mess I have made.

I know people here will tell me I am a callous *****, that my husband can do so much better than anything I could possibly offer him at this point. I accept that. I know that is true. But I hope with all my heart that we can be one of those couples who emerges from something like this.

If you read all this, thank you.


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## the guy

So instead of leaving your husband to pursue your career, you deside it was easier to decieve him?

or

You just justified the affair by admitting to boundrie issues?

I forgot to count the "I" in your post...maybe some one can help me out?




Maybe you should just start to work on being the best person for your self...and then work on being a better spouse?


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## Unsure in Seattle

If your husband wants a divorce, and you are truly remorseful, don't stand in his way. Maybe you can rebuild a relationship down the way, maybe not.

I see a lot of "I" in your post- you realize you have a lot of work to do on yourself, which is good... but you may not be aware or at least, fully aware, of how much damage you've done to your husband. I hope he has a good support structure in place.


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## aug

Student scored with teacher and a milf. He'll remember that forever. Unfortunately so would your husband.


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## BjornFree

aug said:


> Student scored with teacher and a milf. He'll remember that forever. Unfortunately so would your husband.


Don't mean to rub it in, but that is the sad truth and that kind of emasculation is very hard to recover from. And what was it all for? So that the kid can get something to brag about.


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## TCSRedhead

What incentive do you see for your husband to try to trust you yet again? You've already proved to him what will happen.

There are some serious issues at hand for you to resolve, personally and professionally. You violated your marriage vows, you behaved unprofessionally. Why are you so determined to sabotage your life and career?

What other details have you kept from your husband that can later spring out of the closet to bite him on the ass?

I'm really not trying to bash you - in my marriage, I was the cheater in an emotional affair. Those are questions I had to ask myself and then items I had to work to PROVE to my husband (i.e. turn over all passwords, access to phone/text, etc.) Basically, every day I am working to show him he made the right choice.


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## the guy

Boy who sleeps with married teacher, ends up working at drive thru for rest of life.

Now thats karma!!!!!!!


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## Pluto2

Your husband is right to file.
You seem to express remorse, or your version of it, only when caught. Until then, you have no problem lying through your relationships. (And I'm not being harsh, that's based on your post).
Doesn't sound like you are at a place where you can be i a committed relationship.
Dday2 is a prime example. If you were done with cheating, and remorseful for the pain your actions caused, as you want us to believe-why lie.
leave your H alone, you've cause enough pain


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## Eli-Zor

Your right you have given him no reason to want you in his life. You got to mess around with your marriage, anything and everything special your husband thought he had with you has disappeared . There is nothing unique for you to give him that you have not given to somebody else .

What to do?

How about confessing your adultery to your parents , your husbands parents , the OM's parents and completely removing all enablers from your life. How about getting rid of any items of clothing, jewellery and other such items that that you wore when with the OM. As your job is part of the issue , change it. You cannot be trusted around other men , what extraordinary precautions are you going to put into place to ensure you affair proof your marriage. 

Enter into IC for yourself, make sure its a pro marriage councillor who has experience in guiding you. One who will not rationalise why your husbands is at fault for your affair .

An initial call to someone like the Harley's on the marriagebuilders site may help you.

There is no easy way out of this. I would normally suggest that no big decisions are made while both of you are in this state.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

Let me ask you some questions? If you want your husband to accept you back after deceiving him three times, after sleeping with another man, after causing him so much pain; what do yo plan to do to make this right? Being a good girl going forward is not enough. How can he get satisfaction after all this pain? Are you willing to endure the same pain you caused him? How do you plan on compensating him after bringing the filth of another man into your home? What does he get for taking you back? You got the thrill of an affair and got laid out of this. What does he get?

I'd really like you to answer this.


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## Ovid

Stopped counting at 50 Is didn't count the me and my...

Again the serious A started in May... Funny how often it's May.

You have seriously harmed your husband emotionally. You can either deal with that by bending over backwards to make amends for years to come, or cut loose from the relationship. 

I hope you can do all that is needed to rebuild your relationship, but this post leaves me doubtful. It will take years of heavy lifting for it to happen.

The only chance you have will be to come completely clean and learn a level of honesty you have not known with your husband. If your M does stay in tact it will not be the M it was before. It may be better, but the old M was ended by you.


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## Mrs_Mathias

I appreciate the input so far...

I will not stand in my husband's way regarding the divorce. I plan to be completely cooperative and still hope that my changes in behavior may have an impact on his final decision regarding that.

Yes, I have lied and lied and lied and lied. I know I lied on D-Day 2 because he had expressed after D-day 1 that the only thing that made it more bearable was that it was not a PA at that point. i also know that makes it 200% more awful that I allowed it to become one.

I am continuing IC, and hoping that Matt will at some point join me for MC - it can only help our relationship, whether as co-parents or spouses. 

The question about the incentive for him to trust me again is a good one. I don't know how to answer that yet. He does have full access to my passwords/communications etc. I offered to let him drive me to and from rehearsals so he doesn't have a concern about a detour on my end. OM has moved away, and we have been in NC since that last encounter, however, I have not yet sent an explicit letter as recommended. I am more than willing to do that, but do not know where he currently lives, so that would involve some sort of contact with him or a mutual acquaintance to obtain his address.

There are no details I have withheld at this point. There is no hope for us if that were the case. I am with TCSRedhead... every day I just want to show him that if he chooses to stay, it is the right choice.


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## Mrs_Mathias

Eli-Zor said:


> Your right you have given him no reason to want you in his life. You got to mess around with your marriage, anything and everything special your husband thought he had with you has disappeared . There is nothing unique for you to give him that you have not given to somebody else .
> 
> What to do?
> 
> How about confessing your adultery to your parents , your husbands parents , the OM's parents and completely removing all enablers from your life. How about getting rid of any items of clothing, jewellery and other such items that that you wore when with the OM. As your job is part of the issue , change it. You cannot be trusted around other men , what extraordinary precautions are you going to put into place to ensure you affair proof your marriage.
> 
> I have told my parents, my sister. He has told his family after this last D-Day. I have told my boss at work. I am not in contact with OM's family, but could and would arrange that. I am willing to add NC with the friends who enabled our last encounter. I will change my job, move away, anything needed.
> 
> Enter into IC for yourself, make sure its a pro marriage councillor who has experience in guiding you. One who will not rationalise why your husbands is at fault for your affair .
> 
> I am in IC, I believe her to be very pro-marriage in the sessions that we have had.
> 
> An initial call to someone like the Harley's on the marriagebuilders site may help you.
> 
> There is no easy way out of this. I would normally suggest that no big decisions are made while both of you are in this state.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Doingmybest

You found many ways to rationalize making and continuing contact with the OM. Even to the point of trying him out to see if he's better than your husband. You need to get out of rationalization space and figure out out to actually do what you need to do.

You admit your focus has been on yourself and your work, and that Matt has been understanding of that. Except as he kept giving, you kept taking, until he (and the relationship) broke. You need to put that much effort into your relationship.

Read His Needs/Her needs, and recognize that to have a good relationship you actually have to spend TIME with a person. Look at yourself and your choices in life and figure out whether you can be happy if you aren't focused on work constantly. Because if you can't be happy putting effort into your marriage, than you should not be in a marriage. It's not fair to the spouse, and it will fail miserably.

If you decide you can be happy, then come up with an action plan to change your life to be more family-focused. Quit all the "extra" jobs. Do what His Needs/Her Needs says. Read everything on this site about heavy lifting, and be prepared to do it. Part of the heavy lifting is figuring out what to do. Open up everything to your husband, and go for radical honesty and openness. Let him know in words and deeds what you are willing to do, and ask him what else you can do. Start doing it.

And then hope he decides to give you another chance to rip his heart out, and then can forgive you and successfully get past the pain, humiliation and fear.


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## BjornFree

I think you should stick around and read a few threads from other remorseful wayward spouses. It may help you. And remember that one of the factors that will help your husband consider reconciliation is how consistent your remorse is over the coming weeks and months. 

Do not expect a quick fix solution here.


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## TCSRedhead

The NC letter at this point is moot - the boy got what he wanted and moved on. Don't reach out, it would just be another excuse to speak again.

Sit down with him and answer ALL questions he has, may have or want to know. Answer them without being defensive, don't minimize or leave out things in the interest of 'sparing him'. He deserves the truth.

You missed the question - Why the self sabotage? That's an important piece of the puzzle. Until you can answer it and work on fixing it, there is too great a chance that this can repeat.

Right now, work on fixing your issues. Work on wooing/pursuing your husband. Keep everything transparent. When you see he's going through a really tough day, it's time to ask him what you can do to help HIM.

Regardless of the state of your marriage, keep in mind that cheating was your CHOICE not his fault. There is always another path available that would have been easier for everyone. 

Read Not Just Friends, His Needs/Her Needs and any other materials you can to better understand his pain and what the damage is you've done. It's hard, really hard. I can tell you that more than once, I've thought about divorce because THIS path is so much harder. I know I'm glad we've chosen to reconcile but I can tell you that it is not easy nor does it ever go away completely.


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## SomedayDig

Mrs. M, I just want to mirror back what you just said: "There are no details I have withheld at this point".

My wife, Regret214 on the forums here, said the exact same thing. She had a 5 year long affair. Here's the issue - there were still things withheld, not in a malicious way but withheld regardless. See, one thing that MUST be understood by the wayward spouse is that sometimes it isn't about what you did. It's about not coming clean with it.

See, your betrayed spouse is like me...he had to uncover this on his own. You never came out and told him what happened. HE had to ask the questions. HE had to do all the digging in the quagmire of your affair. Honestly, all you did was answer the questions. You never, like Regret, have truly confessed.

I suggest doing what Regret has done this past week. Schedule a time to sit down without interruption. YOU need to talk about everything from the beginning without him needing to ask you questions. He should be allowed to be quiet during this time. YOU need to do the heavy lifting. And it isn't gonna happen quickly. That much I can assure you.

Our Dday was 3/6/12. She just began her "confession" last week. Not for lack of trying, but lack of understanding.


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## Mrs_Mathias

The Middleman said:


> Let me ask you some questions? If you want your husband to accept you back after deceiving him three times, after sleeping with another man, after causing him so much pain; what do yo plan to do to make this right? Being a good girl going forward is not enough. How can he get satisfaction after all this pain? Are you willing to endure the same pain you caused him?
> 
> Honestly, I don't know how any reparations for past actions are possible? I would willingly endure the same pain so he can feel we are on equal footing. However, I don't believe that there is any resolution for him through that path, nor would I want him to stoop to my level. He is a really good man, who didn't deserve this. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think recovery or the path to forgiveness from this kind of event comes from evening the score. I can't ever make up for what I've done to us.
> 
> How do you plan on compensating him after bringing the filth of another man into your home? What does he get for taking you back? You got the thrill of an affair and got laid out of this. What does he get?
> 
> He gets heartbreak and pain. He gets self-doubt and insecurity. I hope that eventually we will share a stronger marriage, a loving family, and contentment for many years. But I don't know what to "give" him other than a changed, healthier me to get us there. And he may not want that, and would be completely justified in his choice.
> 
> I'd really like you to answer this.


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## Ovid

There is no getting even from here. Focus on the future, and give him the complete truth from the past. Odds are you will be divorced. Your only chance is to do the heavy lifting and reveal everything, and do everything to show it will not ever happen again. Prove you really do love him, and that he is not your second choice. How you do that is up to you.


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## The Middleman

Ovid said:


> There is no getting even from here. Focus on the future, and give him the complete truth from the past. Odds are you will be divorced. Your only chance is to do the heavy lifting and reveal everything, and do everything to show it will not ever happen again. Prove you really do love him, and that he is not your second choice. How you do that is up to you.


I agree with you on the divorce, I don't see how any man with self respect can work is way through this. However, if he were to stay, there has to be some from of "compensation" for his pain. Too many way-wards never experience the pain they cause and that's just not fair or right. I know that the conventional wisdom says that this is not productive or any help in an "R", but I'm beginning to thing differently. So again I ask "The Mrs." what are you going to do to compensate your husband.


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## walkonmars

If he keeps you its going to be as others have said. A living hell for months on the fast track but more realistically for years. There are threads here that document the deep pain and anguish. He'll feel things are getting better one day and out of the blue he'll feel a rage that lasts days. 

Read the threads started by "devestated dad" "B1" "calvin" these folks are working hard, going through hell, loving & lashing out all at the same time.

I'm not in a position to judge your resolve. Nor in a position to judge your comittment but the FACT is that when given TWO opportunities to work on your marriage and in spite of IC you CHOSE to find out if the universe had annointed another person for you. A younger, more virile, more sensitive, and more emotionally in tune man. Your betrayal went deeper. 

Then you decided (so you say) that Matt would have to do. 

Your plan to continue IC is good. But i wonder how effective or experienced this person is since you ddn't learn much from her in the first place. You are in a very tough spot. Reconcilliation is not out of the question but words alone won't do. You've daid them before.

Are you willing to quit your job? So that you never again are in a position to engage emotionally with young men. I think i can answer this question but am interested in yours.


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## jnj express

The really sad thing in all of this---is your complete lack of devotion to your son---you say you are a good mother---that is total BS--------YOU KNEW what re-upping your A., and then what sleeping would cause, once you were found out----you have been on this planet for over 30 yrs---YOU KNEW THE REPERCUSSIONS OF INFIDELITY---and you didn't give a sh*t----now your son gets to be brought up into the nuclear winter you have reigned down on him----no matter what you do---you can never undo, what you have wrought onto your son

Let me ask you one question---had your responsive level to the sex with your scumbag lover been different, would you be acting differently about all of this---if the sex had been as some say mindblowing---where would this whole situation be at right now???????

What you really are finding out is that the POS lover of yours, could NEVER take care of you, or your son----you just didn't use your alleged, well educated brain to figure it all out------instead you made up your blighted excuses about being left on your own, to your own devices-----did you EVER sit your H. down prior to your A, and attempt to right the sinking ship----EVER????????


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## SelfTweaks

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I appreciate the input so far...
> 
> I will not stand in my husband's way regarding the divorce. I plan to be completely cooperative and still hope that my changes in behavior may have an impact on his final decision regarding that.
> 
> Yes, I have lied and lied and lied and lied. I know I lied on D-Day 2 because he had expressed after D-day 1 that the only thing that made it more bearable was that it was not a PA at that point. i also know that makes it 200% more awful that I allowed it to become one.
> 
> I am continuing IC, and hoping that Matt will at some point join me for MC - it can only help our relationship, whether as co-parents or spouses.
> 
> The question about the incentive for him to trust me again is a good one. I don't know how to answer that yet. He does have full access to my passwords/communications etc. I offered to let him drive me to and from rehearsals so he doesn't have a concern about a detour on my end. OM has moved away, and we have been in NC since that last encounter, however, I have not yet sent an explicit letter as recommended. I am more than willing to do that, but do not know where he currently lives, so that would involve some sort of contact with him or a mutual acquaintance to obtain his address.
> 
> There are no details I have withheld at this point. There is no hope for us if that were the case. I am with TCSRedhead... every day I just want to show him that if he chooses to stay, it is the right choice.


It's great that you have realized the error of your ways and now you want to make it right...

But you seem to want it on your terms, and just like most selfish people, you think that because you admitted to it and apologized for it, your husband should quickly forgive and work towards reconciliation.

If you really want reconciliation with your husband, here are a few suggestions to help you down that path:

First, realize that you may never get your husband back. By your own admission, you have lied to, deceived, and manipulated your husband on numerous occasions concerning this affair. That is a lot for a person to process emotionally and it may take weeks, months, or years to come to terms with your betrayal. He deserves all the time HE, not you, needs to deal with it, so let him have it. If you try to manipulate, force, or demand that he talk to you about it, you are out of line. Concerning this topic, speak only when you are spoken to is the best way to deal with this.

Second, this leaves you with a lot of time to deal with you. One of the main things that stood out from your discussion was your inability to admit the truth: You had this affair because you wanted it, plain and simple. Women are not like men. Affairs ALWAYS start emotionally for them. Sometimes it is enough, sometimes it is more. The OM was able to get you into bed because of how he made you feel. 

Accept this truth while you are at it - the OM's ONLY objective was to have sex with you. He found you attractive and that's ALL it takes for a man to want to sleep with you. Let this be a lesson for all women reading this. A man's desire for a woman always starts on a physical level and over time MAY proceed to an emotional level. 

Men are naturally built for conquest and you were the next on his list. Men will do or say whatever to accomplish this. I have personally been a great friend and Mr. Manners for YEARS in my quest to sleep with a woman - and succeeded on many occasions. Accept the fact that when it comes to cheating, men only want you as another notch on their belt.

Don't believe me? Then where is he now? Somewhere else doing the same thing to somebody else!

You got caught up in his web of lies and once you allowed him to make you feel like the queen of his universe - he had you. The sex was only a matter of time.

You need to admit that you wanted the sex and helped to make it happen.


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## Ovid

The Middleman said:


> I agree with you on the divorce, I don't see how any man with self respect can work is way through this. However, if he were to stay, there has to be some from of "compensation" for his pain. Too many way-wards never experience the pain they cause and that's just not fair or right. I know that the conventional wisdom says that this is not productive or any help in an "R", but I'm beginning to thing differently. So again I ask "The Mrs." what are you going to do to compensate your husband.


I say there is no getting even because there really is no realistic way to make that happen. The only thing she can realistically do is try to make ammends.

Yes it is unfair. It's unfair to put anyone through this, and if they R they cheater gets a better M, and a better spouse. It's all tragically unfair, but that's the nature of the evil that was done by the WS. Now the question is can they do what is needed to make forgiveness posible, or will they fail the BS in that way too.


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## t_hopper_2012

Mrs_Mathias said:


> The question about the incentive for him to trust me again is a good one.


The answer to this is very simple ... and very hard.

Consider, first, what caused so much trouble in your marriage: your extreme devotion to your job and to your (young, male) students. Your job gets in the way of your relationship with your husband as much as your affair did.

If you want your husband to trust you and if you are serious about having a family life with your husband and son, you need to cut WAAAY back on work - quit some or all of the jobs, quit (for God's sake) bringing students into your home.

(On the topic of having students live with you: I don't think you could have come up with a better way to tell your husband that your career was more important than him, your marriage and your family. It's bad enough that you expend ALL of your energy at work and come home a zombie. On top of all that, you let people from your work live at home with you and suck up any remaining oxygen. Nicely done.)

It's time to show your husband that he is important. It's time to show him that you are dedicated to the marriage. Anything else is just lip service.


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## The Middleman

I can think of one way to compensate him: give up your career to be a stay at home mom.

Also, I'm becoming a believer in revenge affairs. How willing are you to allow that and sit through the details.


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## WorkingOnMe

Ya, if I were in this situation I would never even consider reconciliation as long as you were still working. The job is a complete 100% non-starter.


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## WyshIknew

The Middleman said:


> I can think of one way to compensate him: give up your career to be a stay at home mom.
> 
> Also, I'm becoming a believer in revenge affairs. How willing are you to allow that and sit through the details.


Yes but wouldn't it have more effect if the revenge affair was allowed say ten years down the line when the former WS was deeply back in love with the BS.


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## Ovid

RA doesn't make it even. I don't believe anything makes it "even".


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## The Middleman

WyshIknew said:


> Yes but wouldn't it have more effect if the revenge affair was allowed say ten years down the line when the former WS was deeply back in love with the BS.


Good idea. He should get it in writhing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs_Mathias

SelfTweaks said:


> It's great that you have realized the error of your ways and now you want to make it right...
> 
> But you seem to want it on your terms, and just like most selfish people, you think that because you admitted to it and apologized for it, your husband should quickly forgive and work towards reconciliation.
> 
> I'm honestly curious how you think my words make it seem like I want the reconciliation "on my terms"? I feel like I have said and acknowledge that it may not be possible, and that I am willing to do whatever it takes for Matt to come out of this a whole person, with or without me.
> 
> If you really want reconciliation with your husband, here are a few suggestions to help you down that path:
> 
> First, realize that you may never get your husband back. By your own admission, you have lied to, deceived, and manipulated your husband on numerous occasions concerning this affair. That is a lot for a person to process emotionally and it may take weeks, months, or years to come to terms with your betrayal. He deserves all the time HE, not you, needs to deal with it, so let him have it. If you try to manipulate, force, or demand that he talk to you about it, you are out of line. Concerning this topic, speak only when you are spoken to is the best way to deal with this.
> 
> Speak only when spoken to... I have a hard time understanding that, because I am afraid if I leave him to work it out, it seems like I don't care or am not trying to contribute to this process. I definitely DON'T want that to be the case. So how do I give him space and show him that I am trying to be there and help him heal at the same time?
> 
> Second, this leaves you with a lot of time to deal with you. One of the main things that stood out from your discussion was your inability to admit the truth: You had this affair because you wanted it, plain and simple. Women are not like men. Affairs ALWAYS start emotionally for them. Sometimes it is enough, sometimes it is more. The OM was able to get you into bed because of how he made you feel.
> 
> This is absolutely true. I have a lot of work to do on myself to figure out me. I allowed the space to grow between my husband and I and the opportunity for the affair to develop. I chose to continue contact. I chose to have sex with him, for emotional and physical "reasons".


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## aug

What's sad about all this is that you gave up everything to have sex with your student 15 years younger than you. There was extremely low possibility that the young man of 21 would give up his endless possibilities to settle with an older divorcee with a toddler. I hope you are slowly realizing this.

Your husband has a lot to think about and it'll take him quite some time.


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## alte Dame

Your original post positively bleeds selfishness. I actually found it shocking.

You've been a hit-and-run driver with your husband, driving wherever you wanted, not concerned with the damage you do as long as you discover what 'the universe' has in store for you.

But you live in a real world with real people who will easily override your cosmic destiny with their own behavior and choices. Until you come out of your egocentric bubble, you can't possibly do the hard work that would be necessary to even begin to make up to your husband for what you've done.

And honestly, where is the concern for your child?


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## Mrs_Mathias

> Are you willing to quit your job? So that you never again are in a position to engage emotionally with young men. I think i can answer this question but am interested in yours.


I will absolutely quit my job. It terrifying, because I don't know what I will do, or "who" that makes me, but I will have to discover that.


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## Broken at 20

Shouldn't you be more worried about helping your husband heal from your betrayal, than figuring out who you are without your job?


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## aug

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I will absolutely quit my job. It terrifying, because I don't know what I will do, or "who" that makes me, but I will have to discover that.


It may not be practical though without another job to go to. How would you support yourself when you're single?


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## Mrs_Mathias

Broken at 20 said:


> Shouldn't you be more worried about helping your husband heal from your betrayal, than figuring out who you are without your job?


How can I help him heal or have any hope of a renewed marriage if I am still a mess? This is an honest question. Most of the advice that I read says I have to work on me to figure out what is wrong with me that I engaged in such destructive behavior, despite knowing better. I can and will pour my energy into helping Matt heal, but if I am still broken, what is there to work towards?


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## Broken at 20

Divorce?


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## Ovid

Sometime things need to be broken before they can be rebuilt better.


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## Mrs_Mathias

I also know that I have been an absolute train-wreck for my son. I know that either case (divorce or reconciliation) will create an incredibly difficult atmosphere for him to grow up in for a while. Again, I am really trying to focus on how to really work towards a better future. I want him to know his parents love him, to see love and commitment around him, and to grow up feeling secure in his world. I have done everything possible to eradicate this with my selfishness, but every day is another chance to grow and improve.


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## TCSRedhead

Start with the scheduled conversation a few of us have recommended. Allow him to ask anything he wants to know. Answer ALL questions truthfully and non-defensively. Don't hold back or minimize thinking that will be easier for him - it's much more painful for the details to come out later.

Then start asking him what other steps he'd like you to take. 

It's hard but you have to give him some space to process this and decide what outcome he can live with after this betrayal. He trusted you and then trusted you again and again and that led to further betrayal. Every time he touches you for a while, it will come to mind that you allowed another man to do this. Not easy for anyone to accept.


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## Ovid

Continue to improve. Try to grow with your husband, and let him have the benefit of the improved person. Let the old wife pass away.


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## the guy

Work towards being in a healthy person for your marriage and your family, and if that takes being a SAHM (stay at home mom) then maybe its time to focus on that.

Are we putting a dollar value on this family are we to above living in a shack for the sake of keeping this family together? 

I think your work defines you! Family seems to be second place?


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## Mrs_Mathias

Broken at 20 said:


> Divorce?


We are pursuing those steps currently, as I mentioned previously. Is it so wrong for me to want to be a better wife in the meantime? Honestly, would my husband heal better/faster if I never made the effort to show him my regret and hope for our relationship? I have only pursued things for me for a really long time. I want Matt and my son to have the best possible future. Should I really walk away and leave them to it? I am not certain what is more selfish - to hurt someone so badly and then abandon them to the pain you caused, or to try to work through it and heal together. Certainly, I get something out of the second. But it also feels horrific to think about just cutting ties and leaving this carnage in my wake.


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## the guy

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I also know that I have been an absolute train-wreck for my son. I know that either case (divorce or reconciliation) will create an incredibly difficult atmosphere for him to grow up in for a while. Again, I am really trying to focus on how to really work towards a better future. I want him to know his parents love him, to see love and commitment around him, and to grow up feeling secure in his world. I have done everything possible to eradicate this with my selfishness, but every day is another chance to grow and improve.


Maybe I stand corrected.


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## Ovid

Mrs_Mathias said:


> We are pursuing those steps currently, as I mentioned previously. Is it so wrong for me to want to be a better wife in the meantime? Honestly, would my husband heal better/faster if I never made the effort to show him my regret and hope for our relationship? I have only pursued things for me for a really long time. I want Matt and my son to have the best possible future. Should I really walk away and leave them to it? I am not certain what is more selfish - to hurt someone so badly and then abandon them to the pain you caused, or to try to work through it and heal together. Certainly, I get something out of the second. But it also feels horrific to think about just cutting ties and leaving this carnage in my wake.


I think you are finally thinking about this the right way. Continue to work on being a better wife and placing priority on your family.


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## the guy

Mrs_Mathias said:


> We are pursuing those steps currently, as I mentioned previously. Is it so wrong for me to want to be a better wife in the meantime? Honestly, would my husband heal better/faster if I never made the effort to show him my regret and hope for our relationship? I have only pursued things for me for a really long time. I want Matt and my son to have the best possible future. Should I really walk away and leave them to it? I am not certain what is more selfish - to hurt someone so badly and then abandon them to the pain you caused, or to try to work through it and heal together. Certainly, I get something out of the second. But it also feels horrific to think about just cutting ties and leaving this carnage in my wake.


You know the answer to this question, your not dumb. Even an uneducated man such as my self knows you owe it to your family to stick it out, and do your best to make right a wrong. 

It will be Matts choice to see thru your actions if you can affair proof this marriage and keep you around.


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## WyshIknew

Have you been absolutely one hundred percent warts and all honest with your husband?
If you are leaving anything out to hide your shame or 'spare him' confess it now. People like Someday Dig and Regret will tell you of the hurt that comes from trickle truth. And you wouldn't want him to find out that it was six times or ten times by accident.


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## Broken at 20

Does he want your help? Has he expressed a want of you to help him heal?
Or when he triggers, does he push you away? 

Because that is probably your answer.


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## Mrs_Mathias

the guy said:


> Work towards being in a healthy person for your marriage and your family, and if that takes being a SAHM (stay at home mom) then maybe its time to focus on that.
> 
> Are we putting a dollar value on this family are we to above living in a shack for the sake of keeping this family together?
> 
> I think your work defines you! Family seems to be second place?


I do feel like my works defines me. I have always been an "achiever", constantly told that I am so smart, have so much talent, and potential... I constantly struggle with knowing whether I am living up to that or not. I have no idea how to be a SAHM, without feeling like a failure, that I have given up everything I have worked for. Maybe that is the hard truth of this - if I can't put family first then I shouldn't have one. But it seems like women are told they can have both in this era, is it just my own ambition that prevents this from being true for me? Matt has always known that this is a definite characteristic of my existence. I will try anything, but I am afraid that I would not be able to find me in an existence without my work.


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## alte Dame

Mrs_Mathias said:


> We are pursuing those steps currently, as I mentioned previously. Is it so wrong for me to want to be a better wife in the meantime? Honestly, would my husband heal better/faster if I never made the effort to show him my regret and hope for our relationship? I have only pursued things for me for a really long time. I want Matt and my son to have the best possible future. Should I really walk away and leave them to it? I am not certain what is more selfish - to hurt someone so badly and then abandon them to the pain you caused, or to try to work through it and heal together. Certainly, I get something out of the second. But it also feels horrific to think about just cutting ties and leaving this carnage in my wake.


It is continued selfishness to think that you can decide whether you 'abandon him to his pain.' Your H should be the one to say whether he wants you with him to 'heal.' What feels horrific to you now is immaterial. That's the point. After what you've done, it's all about your H. It's finally about him. You have to let him make these decisions & if you're lucky, he will let you in, but it's for him to say.


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## Mrs_Mathias

WyshIknew said:


> Have you been absolutely one hundred percent warts and all honest with your husband?
> If you are leaving anything out to hide your shame or 'spare him' confess it now. People like Someday Dig and Regret will tell you of the hurt that comes from trickle truth. And you wouldn't want him to find out that it was six times or ten times by accident.


I have been 100% honest... the last trickle truth was Sunday morning when I confessed having been the one to renew contact and the book exchange. I have spent so long censoring my statements or simply not communicating because i was afraid of the negativity (projected or not). I cannot do that anymore. If we will survive this, I have to get over my fear and habit of omission to spare feelings. It's incredibly hard, and my instincts all warn against it... I'm not sure how that became the norm for me.


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## TCSRedhead

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I do feel like my works defines me. I have always been an "achiever", constantly told that I am so smart, have so much talent, and potential... I constantly struggle with knowing whether I am living up to that or not. I have no idea how to be a SAHM, without feeling like a failure, that I have given up everything I have worked for. Maybe that is the hard truth of this - if I can't put family first then I shouldn't have one. But it seems like women are told they can have both in this era, is it just my own ambition that prevents this from being true for me? Matt has always known that this is a definite characteristic of my existence. I will try anything, but I am afraid that I would not be able to find me in an existence without my work.


Gaining satisfaction from your career isn't a bad thing. Letting it COMPLETELY define you - that gets a bit scary. If you're honest with yourself, you allowed work to become more important than your marriage and child in your priorities. THAT is what needs to change. Scale back at work, focus on fixing what is broken inside of you. Find the answer to 'Why did you sabotage yourself personally AND professionally?'. 

Because my EA originated AT work (my exAP no longer works with me), I literally email my calendar to my husband daily and keep him posted on any changes. I keep my cell phone on at all times. I don't go to after-work social functions without him. Those are things he's asked for to make him more comfortable. 

Be honest with your son. While he doesn't need graphic details, it's only fair to explain to him that you made some poor choices that hurt his father and him and apologize. We teach our children about accepting responsibility and actions/consequences through our behavior.


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## Broken at 20

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I do feel like my works defines me. I have always been an "achiever", constantly told that I am so smart, have so much talent, and potential... I constantly struggle with knowing whether I am living up to that or not. I have no idea how to be a SAHM, without feeling like a failure, that I have given up everything I have worked for. Maybe that is the hard truth of this - if I can't put family first then I shouldn't have one. But it seems like women are told they can have both in this era, is it just my own ambition that prevents this from being true for me? Matt has always known that this is a definite characteristic of my existence. I will try anything, but I am afraid that I would not be able to find me in an existence without my work.


I am going to go out on a limb here:

You were told you could have both. 
Be both a professional, and a mother/wife. And you believed that. 

Here is a little realism thrown in:
You can have one or the other 100%. 
You can't have BOTH 100%. 
Anr right now, you are at 90% career, 10% mother and wife. 
Otherwise, you wouldn't be on here arguing with us about your career or saying how you have no idea how you'll go on without it. 
You would've quit/resigned yesterday. Unless your husband said different. 

You thought "Oh, I can be a good wife, and have my fun on the side without hurting anyone." 

Well, the grass is greener on the side that you water. 
Right now, the lawn between you and your husband is dead. 
The lawn for you career and OM is a nice green pasture. Or well, it was. 

See where I am going with this?


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## Mrs_Mathias

Broken at 20 said:


> Does he want your help? Has he expressed a want of you to help him heal?
> Or when he triggers, does he push you away?
> 
> Because that is probably your answer.


It has varied... we are too close to this D-day for me to know the answer to that yet. The last time we seriously talked, prior to this, he said he didn't know what he wanted from me, and that he thought he wanted nothing. But then an hour later, we were holding each other and sharing time. So it's not clear.


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## the guy

Learn the tools to balnce this crap out and think about finding a less demanding job (like at home tutor) and parenting classes.


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## t_hopper_2012

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I do feel like my works defines me. I have always been an "achiever", constantly told that I am so smart, have so much talent, and potential... I constantly struggle with knowing whether I am living up to that or not. I have no idea how to be a SAHM, without feeling like a failure, that I have given up everything I have worked for. Maybe that is the hard truth of this - if I can't put family first then I shouldn't have one. But it seems like women are told they can have both in this era, is it just my own ambition that prevents this from being true for me? Matt has always known that this is a definite characteristic of my existence. I will try anything, but I am afraid that I would not be able to find me in an existence without my work.


It's all about balance (and boundaries and honesty and all sorts of other stuff - but let's talk about balance).

Can you find a way to work in your field and do so in a 9 to 5 fashion? Can you work in your field and leave enough energy and creativity for your husband and son? Can you work in your field and "leave it in the office" when you come home? Can you work in your field and maintain the proper boundaries?

If you can find a way to work and be balanced, then do it. If you can't, then find a different line of work. (Obviously, this is a good topic for you and your IC).


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## Doingmybest

Mrs_Mathias said:


> We are pursuing those steps currently, as I mentioned previously. Is it so wrong for me to want to be a better wife in the meantime? Honestly, would my husband heal better/faster if I never made the effort to show him my regret and hope for our relationship? I have only pursued things for me for a really long time. I want Matt and my son to have the best possible future. Should I really walk away and leave them to it? I am not certain what is more selfish - to hurt someone so badly and then abandon them to the pain you caused, or to try to work through it and heal together. Certainly, I get something out of the second. But it also feels horrific to think about just cutting ties and leaving this carnage in my wake.


This sounds like a good start. I think a big challenge for you will be doing all of this without feeling like you are giving something up and this is all reparations to your husband. You don't want to just hide any resentment, but truly feel deep inside that this is something you want to do. Not just today, tomorrow, etc, but months or years out.

It'll be tough, because your husband could decided at any point the damage is too great, and changing your whole life is stressful in the best of circumstances.

I do think this is the right direction for you to try to R, though.


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## Mrs_Mathias

alte Dame said:


> It is continued selfishness to think that you can decide whether you 'abandon him to his pain.' Your H should be the one to say whether he wants you with him to 'heal.' What feels horrific to you now is immaterial. That's the point. After what you've done, it's all about your H. It's finally about him. You have to let him make these decisions & if you're lucky, he will let you in, but it's for him to say.


I think my words were misunderstood. I'm not deciding whether to abandon him to his pain, I was asking the posters if they really thought that was a better path to healing for my husband, if he is on his own. I know that it is about Matt and that he controls this from here on out. I just don't know how to tell if he really wants me to leave, or is just testing to see if I would jump ship? I want him to know that I will give him whatever he wants, but I want him to know at the same time that I am here for him and not giving up on us. It seems like a contradiction...


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## Broken at 20

HAve you asked him what he wants from you?

Does he want you to leave him alone?
Or does he want you to hold him every time he triggers?

BEcause that will give you a very clear idea on what he wants in the future.


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## C-man

You sound very much like my STBXW. However, I will say that you do sound like you have some remorse, which is a good first step.

You have to really realize the pain that you put your husband through. It's an intense, almost physical pain - I experienced this and know that when people talk about heartbreak - it's not just emotional. Lows so low that you actually weigh going on.

What you did, is probably the most selfish acts a married person can do. You were not thinking about your spouse, your child or anything else. You were just thinking about yourself. Pure selfishness. I'm not sure there is a cure for this.

To have any chance at reconciling, you will have to go through a period, maybe an extended period, where you will have to sacrifice your sense of self to repair the damage. Your husband is going to need you to be selfless when it comes to his questions as well as his mistrust. You're going to need to be open and completely transparent. Can you do this? If he doesn't trust you, you will have to accept this and work on regaining it. No bitterness, no resentment. At this point, you do not deserve his trust.


----------



## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT?

I have to agree that your story is one of shocking selfishness. 

As any betrayed spouse knows, the wayward spouse's decision to have an affair is one of (if not THE) most selfish decision a person can make. It shows a total lack of respect, love, empathy or caring towards your spouse and children. 

But what makes your story so much more selfish is that your husband reached out multiple times before your physical betrayal. He tried to re-engage you in the relationship and in the family. He worked to try and forgive your previous selfish acts - first abandoning him for your career, and then abandoning your family for an emotional affair. And each step of the way you conducted yourself based on YOUR immediate wants and desires.

You are a selfish creature that lacks empathy and has very inappropriate priorities in life. You have zero chance of fixing yourself, your marriage or your relationship with your son until you step back and realize this. 

One day soon your selfish acts will give you what you desire most - the ability to live your life with total disregard for others. But I am guessing when you finally achieve this nirvana, you may begin to realize how lonely life is when we have become our only priority. 

If you are truly ready to change your priorities in life, and ready to start putting the needs of those you love first, then give your husband the divorce he needs. Not to say you can't start over someday, but let him make the decision to reconcile outside of the fog you have created. Set him free, and then see if he is willing to come back to the new and improved you after you have done the work needed to get there.


----------



## Tony55

I wouldn't divorce you because of the affair, I wouldn't divorce you because you lied, I wouldn't even divorce you for having sex with a community college student; I wouldn't have to think that far into it. Just knowing that my 36 year old wife, and mother of my child, had actually lost her mind to the extent that she *actually believed she was in love with a student*, (potentially) 15 years younger than her, would do it for me. 

T


----------



## alte Dame

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I think my words were misunderstood. I'm not deciding whether to abandon him to his pain, I was asking the posters if they really thought that was a better path to healing for my husband, if he is on his own. I know that it is about Matt and that he controls this from here on out. I just don't know how to tell if he really wants me to leave, or is just testing to see if I would jump ship? I want him to know that I will give him whatever he wants, but I want him to know at the same time that I am here for him and not giving up on us. It seems like a contradiction...


I don't think there's a misunderstanding here. The point is that neither you nor the posters here can know what the better path is for your H right now. You have completely controlled how things have unfolded until very recently & now it is for him to figure out what he wants to do to move forward. You can't necessarily intuit that - I think given your self-absorption it may be very difficult for you to empathize enough to be able to tell what he's thinking.

Whether you want to or not, you have to tell your H that you will do whatever he chooses & then let him make his decisions.


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## Plan 9 from OS

First, sorry to see both you and Drmathias here laying out your troubles. But, you're in a great place to get advice to help you out.

Someone asked you how you are going to make this up to you husband. This is tough and in the end I don't think you or any WS can make this up to the BS. I do believe that there are some things that you can do to help bridge the gap though. If he has always craved more of your attention - give it to him. You should consider giving up your work - at least temporarily - to reconnect to your husband and then the two of you together can work out a plan for how you can do something your are interested in without become a "slave to your passion". If you think about it, your husband will be making a sacrifice to stay with you given the betrayal you put him through. You should strongly consider becoming a SAHM for awhile in order to make yourself available to your husband to allow him to fully heal and rebuild trust.

This may sound petty to you, but I think it is important to men: If you engaged in physical contact with the OM where you did things for him that you never did for your hubby, you better consider doing these same things for your husband moving forward. This is probably not one of those cases, but you would be surprised how big of a deal this can be to a guy. I know that I'd be deeply hurt if my wife refused to give oral to me but would happily do it for an affair partner (for example).


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## Acabado

I understand you are in an horrible position just now, dealing with the more imediate things but you need to think long term. Lots of self examination.
You feel inadecuate as a wife, as a mother.. you only seems to find validation in your work... Reading you first post what I seel is more worrisome is all surouding your identity...

You bassicaly told yourself you needed to find out whether OM was "the right one", you tested it by sleeping with him... it made you fell at the marriage fence, but.. what if?
Imagine the sex were great, then what? Running away with OM to NY abandoning your husband and son here (as he already had the main caretaker)? Living happyly ever after in a small flat with OM and focusing on persuing your artistic carreer at Broadway? Was that the picture in your mind?

Reading your post there's no a way to deny it playing your line of thoughts to the end. This or recanting completely what you wrote and admiting the cold decision to cake eat because you could.

If my take (again just me playing your description to the end) it's truth.. How could you justify yourself this?
Better think hard about what you want and don't waste you and your husband time. Because you migh find you are not wired anymore for the life you seems to be choosing now. It's not fair for you nor your husband to make both miserable. Think hard whether you are snappind from a new fog of whether you are entering into the old fog.


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## Dad&Hubby

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I will absolutely quit my job. It terrifying, because I don't know what I will do, or "who" that makes me, but I will have to discover that.


No offense, but I TRULY DESPISE this whole thought process.

You ARE who your thoughts determine.

You have been a cheater, an absentee mother, a workaholic, an irresponsible educator, a person with horrible boundaries, a woman who gives ZERO regard to her husband, a woman who puts her "career" above her family.

So you're terrified that you might turn into someone else....GOT IT.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Dad&Hubby said:


> No offense, but I TRULY DESPISE this whole thought process.
> 
> You ARE who your thoughts determine.
> 
> You have been a cheater, an absentee mother, a workaholic, an irresponsible educator, a person with horrible boundaries, a woman who gives ZERO regard to her husband, a woman who puts her "career" above her family.
> 
> So you're terrified that you might turn into someone else....GOT IT.


I don't want to be the person that I have been. But I don't yet know how to discover who I am without work as my primary source of identity. That is something for me to work on in IC.


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## cantdecide

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I don't want to be the person that I have been. But I don't yet know how to discover who I am without work as my primary source of identity. That is something for me to work on in IC.


You're a wife and mother, try being that for a change !!


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## Wolfman1968

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I have been 100% honest... the last trickle truth was Sunday morning when I confessed having been the one to renew contact and the book exchange. I have spent so long censoring my statements or simply not communicating because i was afraid of the negativity (projected or not). I cannot do that anymore. If we will survive this, I have to get over my fear and habit of omission to spare feelings. It's incredibly hard, and my instincts all warn against it... I'm not sure how that became the norm for me.


Wow...that Original Post is such a monument to Sef-Indulgence, I am completely taken aback.

Now this. 

It's all about you, you, you, you, you.

YOU decided, after sex, that the OM wasn't all that you thought he would be...FOR YOU. Never mind what responsibility you owe to your husband. 

Every post I see from you is about your own feelings, wants, and self-identity. What a masterpiece of narcissism you are!

And it sounds harsh; because it is. You talk about trying to find your role with/without a career, etc. You still don't get it. 

Unless you confront, at every level, what a monstrosity of selfishness you have become (or always was?), there can be no hope of a vaild Reconciliation. 

THIS is the truth you must learn about yourself. Unless you face it, you are doomed to fail, along with any hope for a healthy relationship.

"Gnothi Seauton."


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## landon33

So basically, it ended because the OM didn't fxck you as well as your husband.

That will make it a lot easier for him to move on actually.


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## jnj express

Hey Mrs M---let me tell you one thing-----DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR JOB

Your H---does not/will not know which way he is going, and that situation may linger for who knows how long---it could go for years---it just depends upon how much misery he can/will handle

You need to keep your job, and your step--level, on your district's salary schedule---cuz if your H, does send you packing---you need to provide on your own for your son, and yourself---so no matter what anyone says---KEEP YOUR JOB


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## 3Xnocharm

Acabado said:


> You bassicaly told yourself you needed to find out whether OM was "the right one", you tested it by sleeping with him... it made you fell at the marriage fence, but.. what if?
> Imagine the sex were great, then what? Running away with OM to NY abandoning your husband and son here (as he already had the main caretaker)? Living happyly ever after in a small flat with OM and focusing on persuing your artistic carreer at Broadway? Was that the picture in your mind?


Yeah this was my thought as well when I read this! What if the sex was mind blowing, then what?? So sorry hubby, you lose?? Yuck. Do him a favor...show some class and leave.


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## Mrs_Mathias

Wolfman1968 said:


> Wow...that Original Post is such a monument to Sef-Indulgence, I am completely taken aback.
> 
> Now this.
> 
> It's all about you, you, you, you, you.
> 
> YOU decided, after sex, that the OM wasn't all that you thought he would be...FOR YOU. Never mind what responsibility you owe to your husband.
> 
> Every post I see from you is about your own feelings, wants, and self-identity. What a masterpiece of narcissism you are!
> 
> And it sounds harsh; becasue it is. You talk about trying to find your role with/without a career, etc. You still don't get it.
> 
> Unless you confront, at every level, what a monstrosity of selfishness you have become (or always was?), there can be no hope of a vaild Reconciliation.
> 
> THIS is the truth you must learn about yourself. Unless you face it, you are doomed to fail, along with any hope for a healthy relationship.
> 
> "Gnothi Seauton."


I know I have been monstrously selfish. But I don't know how to talk about recovery without saying "I" did this, and trying to understand why "I" am so destructive to our relationship. Matt has to decide what he wants and needs, and we will pursue his goals of divorce or reconciliation. It's entirely possible that "I" don't get it, although I'm really trying to. But my identity issues and problems led to this affair, and "I" want to learn from past mistakes and naivete. How can I communicate that more effectively or in a more supportive manner for my husband? (This is a real question, not just musings. I haven't had a chance yet at work to go through the threads that have been recommended to me, so maybe that will give me some ideas.)


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

wow.


----------



## Broken at 20

Well, because we have all been beating you up pretty badily, how about we all give you a chance. 

Tell all of us, and your husband, what you will do if he graciously and mercifully gives you the chance of reconciliation? What exactly will you do? Right now, if he said I wanted to try reconciliation. 
No terms given, no expectations or anything from you, just what would you do?


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## SelfTweaks

Notice what you said below:

_Speak only when spoken to... I have a hard time understanding that, because I am afraid if I leave him to work it out, it seems like I don't care or am not trying to contribute to this process. I definitely DON'T want that to be the case. So how do I give him space and show him that I am trying to be there and help him heal at the same time?_

To me, it seems you are wanting to set the terms of how the reconciliation goes. You are fine with him sorting it out, as long as you get to still communicate and "remind" him that you are still there.

You're not giving your husband enough credit. Sometimes people need time to heal enough so that when they re-open the lines of communication, it won't be so emotionally charged that all they end up doing is lashing out and saying hurtful, spiteful things. How much time he needs should not be up to you, nor should it be based on your analysis of the situation.

He deserves to take all the time he needs to deal with the pain YOU caused him. I don't think anyone here doubts that you have made him more than aware that you are there for him should he decide to seek reconciliation. I don't think you giving him space equates to not-caring. I also give him enough credit to believe that he knows the difference.

If you want to know what you should be doing in the meantime, you should take note of all the feelings you are feeling at this moment. Take time to savor the shame, the guilt, the regret you are feeling for making a mistake of this magnitude. Observe all of the fallout, how it has damaged your life, your happiness, your peace, your marriage. 

Go through it...remember the pain and the agony you caused. Never forget how you feel at this moment, because should you be fortunate enough to reconcile this marriage, let this day right here and the feelings you feel at this moment, be the FIRST thing to come to your mind if you ever contemplate cheating again.


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## MattMatt

So, you did not see it coming, huh? It was only a friendship, right? Matt was being unreasonable and horrible, yes?

And when the affair became physical, you were shocked to your very core. You probably wondered who you where, yes? 

Did you think: "Oh, no! I have turned into a real POS! What have I done to my poor husband? How could I do it?"

How do I know all these things? Because that was exactly what I went through when I found myself about to have unprotected sex with my OW. I was lucky at the last minute -or less- I suddenly realised what I was doing and did not have sex with the OW.

However, I was also previously on the other side of this, when my wife had an affair with her OM, so can feel for both of you. I wish both of you and your family all the best for your future * as a family, together*.


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## Mrs_Mathias

SelfTweaks said:


> Notice what you said below:
> 
> _Speak only when spoken to... I have a hard time understanding that, because I am afraid if I leave him to work it out, it seems like I don't care or am not trying to contribute to this process. I definitely DON'T want that to be the case. So how do I give him space and show him that I am trying to be there and help him heal at the same time?_
> 
> To me, it seems you are wanting to set the terms of how the reconciliation goes. You are fine with him sorting it out, as long as you get to still communicate and "remind" him that you are still there.
> 
> You're not giving your husband enough credit. Sometimes people need time to heal enough so that when they re-open the lines of communication, it won't be so emotionally charged that all they end up doing is lashing out and saying hurtful, spiteful things. How much time he needs should not be up to you, nor should it be based on your analysis of the situation.
> 
> He deserves to take all the time he needs to deal with the pain YOU caused him. I don't think anyone here doubts that you have made him more than aware that you are there for him should he decide to seek reconciliation. I don't think you giving him space equates to not-caring. I also give him enough credit to believe that he knows the difference.


Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.


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## Foghorn

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I know I have been monstrously selfish. But I don't know how to talk about recovery without saying "I" did this, and trying to understand why "I" am so destructive to our relationship.


I am sorry for you. It sounds like you are trying to be honest and are on a path of healing yourself and might even feel some measure of true remorse.

I will say that your original post is a textbook example of why affairs are like addictions. You knew it was bad for you, you knew it was wrong, you knew it would hurt everyone you loved, and you did it anyway. No different than the bottle, the hash pipe or the needle.

That is what your IC needs to teach you - find the disconnect in yourself that allows something like that to be ok. Why is that ok? Why are you boundaries so weak? Why would someone that much younger get your attention, and you not realize that it would be destructive and not worth it?

If you can figure that out, you might become worthy of your child's respect. You might find your own self-respect again ( because the first casualty of addiction is self-respect ) You might even find that Matt will see the change in you and allow for a second chance. 

Life after divorce is difficult. I think you should focus on mental health and wellness, and show true remorse to your husband, in order to forestall this possibility. I can't say what your husband thinks, but I hope you can do better. And I wish you the best of luck,

-FH


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## shazam

I'm not even trying to be mean or bitter, but it sounds like your son and husband would be better off without you. It sounds like if you enjoyed sex with OM you wouldn't have thought twice about leaving Matt. There was so much me me me in your post that is seems like that's all you care about, that and your job. My two cents would be to leave your husband alone.


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## MattMatt

shazam said:


> I'm not even trying to be mean or bitter, but it sounds like your son and husband would be better off without you. It sounds like if you enjoyed sex with OM you wouldn't have thought twice about leaving Matt. There was so much me me me in your post that is seems like that's all you care about, that and your job. My two cents would be to leave your husband alone.


It has to be said that yours is probably not one of the more helpful posts I have seen on TAM...


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## DavidWYoung

HaHaHa,Sorry, "I" had completely forgotten about my time in the "Theater"in SoCal. After the second stage show," I "figured out that most of the guys were gay and all of the girls were VERY FRIENDLY! Comming from Germany it was a little shock and "I" was only 24, so I was wet behind the ears. OK, I will settle down now. As for your question, should you divorce your husband or not? YES, you should because he needs alot of time to recover from what you did to him. You need to work on the person that you want to be and he needs to recover on the person that you are.


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## DavidWYoung

i know that i am pushing my luck here! sorry


----------



## Broken at 20

I think I finally get you...

You are having to decide between your two passions. 

Your job and career

Or 

Your husband and your family. 


Here is some advice:
If it takes you longer than 5 seconds to say your husband and child, then divorce and let your husband have the favorable settlement, and don't push for custody. 
Because you can't give him the love he deserves, and the love your child needs because you are too immersed in your job.


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## survivorwife

Broken at 20 said:


> I think I finally get you...
> 
> You are having to decide between your two passions.
> 
> Your job and career
> 
> Or
> 
> Your husband and your family.
> 
> 
> Here is some advice:
> If it takes you longer than 5 seconds to say your husband and child, then divorce and let your husband have the favorable settlement, and don't push for custody.
> Because you can't give him the love he deserves, and the love your child needs because you are too immersed in your job.



:iagree:

Perfect summary of what I have been reading here.


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## shazam

MattMatt said:


> It has to be said that yours is probably not one of the more helpful posts I have seen on TAM...


It's just sad when someone chooses strange sex and a job over a child and family. I just don't see her being able to suddenly become a mom and wife. I guess if she is really dedicated it could work, but her mindset after what 3 Dvdays is still messed up. How old is your kid? If he's a 12 or older I really don't see the point. It's your choice though.


----------



## MattMatt

shazam said:


> It's just sad when someone chooses strange sex and a job over a child and family. I just don't see her being able to suddenly become a mom and wife. I guess if she is really dedicated it could work, but her mindset after what 3 Dvdays is still messed up. How old is your kid? If he's a 12 or older I really don't see the point. It's your choice though.


People do incredibly stupid, hurtful things. Often to those they love. It's what this thread is for. Coping With Infidelity.


----------



## survivorwife

MattMatt said:


> It has to be said that yours is probably not one of the more helpful posts I have seen on TAM...


Maybe that would be because you aren't married to a narcissist?

I'm just reading along as I must confess that I too read alot of "I" thoughts. 

*I* did wrong and *I *am sorry and *I* don't want *my* BS to leave *me* so* I *will do what *I* have to do to get *my* life back together and keep *my* husband and *my* child in *my* household.

Does the BS get a moment to state what HE feels? Can the OP even begin to empathize with the BS? Would it not be helpful to call a "time out" and give the BS a chance to heal and be objective about what HE wants? Or is the OP going to smother him with her presence and feeding HER needs, while neglecting his own?


----------



## MattMatt

survivorwife said:


> Maybe that would be because you aren't married to a narcissist?
> 
> I'm just reading along as I must confess that I too read alot of "I" thoughts.
> 
> *I* did wrong and *I *am sorry and *I* don't want *my* BS to leave *me* so* I *will do what *I* have to do to get *my* life back together and keep *my* husband and *my* child in *my* household.
> 
> Does the BS get a moment to state what HE feels? Can the OP even begin to empathize with the BS? Would it not be helpful to call a "time out" and give the BS a chance to heal and be objective about what HE wants? Or is the OP going to smother him with her presence and feeding HER needs, while neglecting his own?


No, I am married to a high functioning Asperger. And that's a whole different trip. Or maybe not?


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## Wolfman1968

shazam said:


> It's just sad when someone chooses strange sex and a job over a child and family. I just don't see her being able to suddenly become a mom and wife. I guess if she is really dedicated it could work, but her mindset after what 3 Dvdays is still messed up. How old is your kid? If he's a 12 or older I really don't see the point. It's your choice though.


I don't think it is as simple as "choosing job/sex over child/husband". If it were, I think it would be easier to solve.

No, I think that, based on what has been posted here, it's a matter of being self-oriented. And I think that it goes to her core, and that's why her job/self-identity is such a difficult issue for her.

In marriage, people have to compromise some of their own desires/wants/needs for their spouse's needs sometimes. I don't get the feeling from the posts that this kind of mindset is inherent to the OP. Instead, I get more of a sense that marriage is acceptable, as long as it benefits HER. So, she gets to pursue the ego strokes of her career, and let her husband take over a disproportionate amount of child care, household duties, etc. (I am not against such a division of labor, but in this case, it seems to be for selfish ends). Husband is meaningless to her, until she discovers that the OM is a dud in the sack, and the magic is gone FOR HER. In fact, the whole dynamic of a teacher pursuing a relationship with a student 15 years her junior is just a big ego boost for her.

Nope. I don't think it's just a "choosing job over family" issue. Instead, I think that we are dealing with a deeply self-absorbed, self-centered individual. THAT is much harder to repair...if at all.


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## walkonmars

I wonder what your husband's opinion is re you initial post. Please ask him if he is willing to read your post and offer his assessment of what you said. Either on your thread or his.

Thanks


----------



## survivorwife

MattMatt said:


> No, I am married to a high functioning Asperger. And that's a whole different trip. Or maybe not?


I'm not sure about Asperger, but my stbxh is most definitely a narcissist, meaning it's "all about him" and is the reason he is my stbxh. 

Mt stbxh is not capable of empathy. He simply does not get it. After DDay, I needed some time to sort out my thoughts and emotions, but he was so afraid of me being away from him he refused to give me the alone time I required. Therefore I left.

I'm seeing that sort of response here in regards to the BS. The OP does not seem to recognize that the BS is hurting and needs his space to absorb what he has learned and to decide what he wants to do with that information. It's even about respect. Respecting the BS as an individual with his own hurts and thoughts that he needs to process.

Yes, I could be projecting. Or maybe not. But I don't think anyone could argue with the fact that the BS is an individual, is hurting, and has a life changing decision to make.


----------



## alte Dame

I think that Mrs. Matt is so used to basking in her fabulousness that she has to completely regroup emotionally to be able to accept that she has truly been a bad human being.

All of the going the extra mile for students and work, work, working 'selflessly' to get productions just right. She can't admit that she planned in her head to sleep with the OM during that weekend in which her friends enabled her. That wouldn't be something a fabulous person would do, but we know she did it.

It's like the glass shattering when Narcissus sees his image - it's a shock. She will need time to be able to understand the flawed person that she is.

(p.s. - yes, I know that Narcissus looked into a pool of water  - poetic license)


----------



## A++

Mrs_Mathias said:


> My “friends” arranged to sleep in the other room so OM and I could have time to talk.


What kind of friends is that?


----------



## MattMatt

survivorwife said:


> I'm not sure about Asperger, but my stbxh is most definitely a narcissist, meaning it's "all about him" and is the reason he is my stbxh.
> 
> Mt stbxh is not capable of empathy. He simply does not get it. After DDay, I needed some time to sort out my thoughts and emotions, but he was so afraid of me being away from him he refused to give me the alone time I required. Therefore I left.
> 
> I'm seeing that sort of response here in regards to the BS. The OP does not seem to recognize that the BS is hurting and needs his space to absorb what he has learned and to decide what he wants to do with that information. It's even about respect. Respecting the BS as an individual with his own hurts and thoughts that he needs to process.
> 
> Yes, I could be projecting. Or maybe not. But I don't think anyone could argue with the fact that the BS is an individual, is hurting, and has a life changing decision to make.


Asperger's can also be "me" people. Or rather "me, me, ME!" people.


----------



## MattMatt

A++ said:


> What kind of friends is that?


Theatre people darling! And lots of theatre people would do exactly that. They make a religion out of being non-judgemental. And they do call each other darling, a lot. At least, those in Britain do. Either that or "lovey".


----------



## Wolfman1968

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I know I have been monstrously selfish. But I don't know how to talk about recovery without saying "I" did this, and trying to understand why "I" am so destructive to our relationship. Matt has to decide what he wants and needs, and we will pursue his goals of divorce or reconciliation. *It's entirely possible that "I" don't get it*, although I'm really trying to. But my identity issues and problems led to this affair, and "I" want to learn from past mistakes and naivete. How can I communicate that more effectively or in a more supportive manner for my husband? (This is a real question, not just musings. I haven't had a chance yet at work to go through the threads that have been recommended to me, so maybe that will give me some ideas.)


Yes, you don't get it. 

You didn't ACT selfishly, you ARE INTRINSICALLY selfish, or at least as far as anyone can determine based on postings. Your problem is not one of "mistakes and naivete", but one of a deep personality defect, as far as I can tell.

Your problem is not that you need to decide what you want (career vs family), it's that you don't know what kind of person you are. Are you a person that sacrifices for others? That thinks of others--beyond just the friends. I know people that put on a good face and are generous to friends, but treat their family like garbage. That's because the esteem of friends strokes their ego, so they get a benefit from that--more selfishness in the end.

Compare yourself to others. Know yourself.

Gnothi Seauton.


----------



## Wolfman1968

alte Dame said:


> *I think that Mrs. Matt is so used to basking in her fabulousness that she has to completely regroup emotionally to be able to accept that she has truly been a bad human being.
> *
> All of the going the extra mile for students and work, work, working 'selflessly' to get productions just right. She can't admit that she planned in her head to sleep with the OM during that weekend in which her friends enabled her. That wouldn't be something a fabulous person would do, but we know she did it.
> 
> It's like the glass shattering when Narcissus sees his image - it's a shock. She will need time to be able to understand the flawed person that she is.


I'll go one step further. I don't think this occurs in a vacuum, that these behaviors just occur out of nice people. I think that if she is able to look at herself deep down (and most people can't), she will find that at her very core she is basically a selfish person.


----------



## Kasler

You plan B'd your husband big time. 

Turned out the grass wasn't greener, and then you suddenly then realize whats right and wrong? 

Not buying it. If the sex was better or you felt that 'connection' you betrayed your family for you'd probably still be with him and your grieving husband and son an afterthought, especially with the way you rationalize anything you want. 

After all your compulsive lying and then doing more so after he was forgiving enough to give you a second chance?

To trust you would be grand folly.

You are way too intrinsically selfish. Everything has been about yourself and only yourself from the start.

You lie, cheat, and snuck behind his back. You didn't compartmentalize, you're just being incredibly selfish, which is why the 'remorse' only comes after getting caught, and then more lying. 

Even before the affair you would just ignore your problems and the feelings of your husband.

You are not mature enough to be in a committed relationship.


----------



## The Middleman

> Originally Posted by *The Middleman*
> _Let me ask you some questions? If you want your husband to accept you back after deceiving him three times, after sleeping with another man, after causing him so much pain; what do yo plan to do to make this right? Being a good girl going forward is not enough. How can he get satisfaction after all this pain? Are you willing to endure the same pain you caused him?
> 
> Honestly, I don't know how any reparations for past actions are possible? I would willingly endure the same pain so he can feel we are on equal footing. However, I don't believe that there is any resolution for him through that path, nor would I want him to stoop to my level. He is a really good man, who didn't deserve this. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think recovery or the path to forgiveness from this kind of event comes from evening the score. I can't ever make up for what I've done to us.
> 
> How do you plan on compensating him after bringing the filth of another man into your home? What does he get for taking you back? You got the thrill of an affair and got laid out of this. What does he get?
> 
> He gets heartbreak and pain. He gets self-doubt and insecurity. I hope that eventually we will share a stronger marriage, a loving family, and contentment for many years. But I don't know what to "give" him other than a changed, healthier me to get us there. And he may not want that, and would be completely justified in his choice.
> 
> I'd really like you to answer this._


I do appreciate your attempts to try and answer this but you went nowhere. You said: " I would willingly endure the same pain so he can feel we are on equal footing. However, I don't believe that there is any resolution for him through that path, nor would I want him to stoop to my level". I say that would be just fine. Picture him going out and sleeping with a 20 year old, videoing it, bring it home and sitting down with you to watch it. How would you feel while watching it? I would hope you would feel the kind of pain he felt. And frankly you deserve the pain and he deserves the ego boost. 

Right now all you are saying is *"I'll be a good girl".* Well honey, if I were your husband, That wouldn't be good enough. I think the biggest favor you could do for him right now would be to leave him.


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## Emerald

Your job defines you. It is who you are. Giving it up will destroy you.

Your ego will never let you be satisfied being a SAHM. Get real with yourself. I think that you justify your affair as part of your job - to DEEPLY connect with students & that is scary not to mention inappropriate even if you were single.

I don't feel that you are sorry for your affair. I feel that you are sorry you got caught. I hope you seek individual counseling asap & wish you & your family a better future.


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## Michie

More proof that the grass is never greener. My thoughts are with you and your husband and son.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

Emerald said:


> Your job defines you. It is who you are. Giving it up will destroy you.
> 
> Your ego will never let you be satisfied being a SAHM. Get real with yourself. I think that you justify your affair as part of your job - to DEEPLY connect with students & that is scary not to mention inappropriate even if you were single.
> 
> I don't feel that you are sorry for your affair. I feel that you are sorry you got caught. I hope you seek individual counseling asap & wish you & your family a better future.


I disagree! If she really wants to "R" and she really is remorseful and she really want to pay a penalty for causing her husband so much pain that he didn't deserve then Giving up her job and becoming a Stay At Home Mom is the right thing to do. If her career meant that much to her, then it's the price she needs to pay to get her family back. Frankly, this marriage isn't salvageable in my opinion.


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## VFW

Quote: I don't want to be the person that I have been. But I don't yet know how to discover who I am without work as my primary source of identity. That is something for me to work on in IC.--Mrs 3

Mrs3, I have seen so many folks like you in my years in the military, where their career was their whole identity and when they finally retired they were just lost in life. It is sad, particular when the most rewarding job you can ever have is being the Mommy to that little boy. I can tell you that thirty years from now, you will not say "boy I wish that I had spent more time away from home.

Let's face it you are surrounded by young talented individuals that give you attention. This gives you an adrenaline rush and allowed it to go to an inappropriate place. This as a very minimum is extremely unprofessional and in many instances would get you fired. 

I think you are in an odd way contrite, but don't think you are a good bet for a long term relationship, because after a while, another temptation will present itself and you will give in to your own selfishness. You asked what can you do? Easy, you can prove us all wrong. All successful relationships are built on the premise that the relationship is more important to you than you are to yourself.


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## Maricha75

MattMatt said:


> How do I know all these things? Because that was exactly what I went through when I found myself about to have unprotected sex with my OW. I was lucky at the last minute -or less- I suddenly realised what I was doing and did not have sex with the OW.
> 
> However,* I was also previously on the other side of this, when my wife had an affair with her OM*, so can feel for both of you. I wish both of you and your family all the best for your future * as a family, together*.


Matt, that the thing... yours was a revenge affair (though, I think you didn't think of it in those terms until you came to TAM?). You STOPPED yourself. Mrs.Mathias did not. Hey, I'm with you on being on both sides of affairs. But the thing is, when OM kissed Mrs.Mathias, she should have pushed him away and told him to leave. She didn't. She wanted it to happen. She wanted to have sex with him, even if she wasn't admitting it aloud. Matt, you know how it feels to be the betrayer... but you were motivated by revenge (again, you didn't realize it then, I think?). She didn't have the same motivation. She had her husband telling her in the first place that something was wrong and rather than work on THAT, she chose to f*ck around... oh, sorry, to f*ck a former student. 

Mrs.Mathias, you can try to spin this any way you want, but the bottom line is that NOW, the ball is in Dr.Matt's court. It is up to HIM whether he can handle being married anymore. You need to give him whatever time he wants. Don't bring ANY of this up to him. Let HIM bring it up. HE calls the shots, not you. Youf*cked up big. Now, what you need to do is what he asks.. give him access to everything, answer his questions...even if it is MONTHS from now. Do NOT get pissy if he asks again and again and again. YOU have no say in this. Don't count on being allowed to go out with friends anytime soon. 

Now, this is assuming he decides he wants to reconcile. If he doesn't, well, that's up to him. You f*cked up, you pay the price. Maybe next time a kid makes a pass at you, you will keep your panties on!


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## MattMatt

But I came within 30 seconds -yes that close- to ruining my marriage. 

I feel for Matt, because his wife cheated on him, despite his warnings. My wife warned me, but I ignored the warnings. Why? I KNEW a physical affair would be impossible. After all, I knew I was unattractive, so the OW would not really want me, right? Wrong! She did. Looking back on it she was going to use her womanly charms (which she had) to ensnare me with sex, so I'd leave my wife and be a father to her two children.


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## jnj express

Just out of curiosity---what accountability are you putting yourself thru------and please don't give us the transparency line---that is a given no matter what

Has your betrayed H---asked you for any accountability-

---what has changed from your previous cushy lifestyle----and yes it is cushy---cuz workaholic or not---you have a good job, a nice home environment, family, friends, and a loving child-----somehow I don't think anything has changed in any of these areas---so your life goes on as before---only difference is you spread your legs, and destroyed a husband, and child in the aftermath


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## Maricha75

MattMatt said:


> But I came within 30 seconds -yes that close- to ruining my marriage.


I understand what you are saying, I really do. But the point I am trying to make is that you DID stop... She didn't.


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## MattMatt

Maricha75 said:


> I understand what you are saying, I really do. But the point I am trying to make is that you DID stop... She didn't.


But only just. In fact, OW was really shocked when I suddenly, heck, how can I put this? withdrew from the field of battle, so to speak.

I saw an image of my wife and suddenly came out of the fog, instantly.

If only Mrs M had done the same.


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## Acabado

Michie said:


> More proof that the grass is never greener. My thoughts are with you and your husband and son.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First, it's not necessarily true no matter how many times we tell us. 
Second and the real issue here is she felt entitled to find out (while faking reconciliation, goinf MC, assisting IC, reading books in this very subject) and then... what if by chance grass was indeed greener?
- Prolong the cake eating as long as she could?
- Sorry Matt but I found out my soulmate and I'm leaving you for him? 
- Leaving a note explaining she run off the sunset (broadway) with OM? Son will be OK just with you?

If I were Matt I'd be hightly interested in knowing it.


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## WyshIknew

Condom or no condom?

Think carefully because if you had a condom that means you intended sex all along.

If you didn't, and most affair sex is unprotected, do you have any idea what that means to a man?


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## Racer

Acabado said:


> First, it's not necessarily true no matter how many times we tell us.
> Second and the real issue here is she felt entitled to find out (while faking reconciliation, goinf MC, assisting IC, reading books in this very subject) and then... what if by chance grass was indeed greener?
> - Prolong the cake eating as long as she could?
> - Sorry Matt but I found out my soulmate and I'm leaving you for him?
> - Leaving a note explaining she run off the sunset (broadway) with OM? Son will be OK just with you?
> 
> If I were Matt I'd be hightly interested in knowing it.


You just about nailed it... What she found was he wasn’t good in bed. So, she skipped back home. See what “saved” her marriage in her head? It wasn’t anything Matt was or wasn’t doing.... It was what the OM was or wasn’t doing...

That is the problem. She basing her value of the marriage by how she feels about others... Or more specifically, she sees it as “her marriage” and does not value her husband’s ideas about how he might feel about it. That wasn’t at all important to her. Thus, there is no freaking way this marriage will work. “Love, Honor, Cherish”.... words that hold no value for her beyond that of self.


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## MattMatt

WyshIknew said:


> Condom or no condom?
> 
> Think carefully because if you had a condom that means you intended sex all along.
> 
> If you didn't, and most affair sex is unprotected, do you have any idea what that means to a man?


I didn't have a condom, didn't know if OW was on the pill. Why? Because I was fooling myself that I was not going to have sex with OW, even though I really knew that was what I intended. Damn tricky stuff, that fog...


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## Shaggy

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I know people here will tell me I am a callous *****, that my husband can do so much better than anything I could possibly offer him at this point. I accept that. I know that is true. But I hope with all my heart that we can be one of those couples who emerges from something like this.
> 
> If you read all this, thank you.


No, I'll call you an incredibly selfish person who now doesn't want to face the well deserved justice you are getting.

The fact that after everything YOU THEN lied and had sex with the POSOM boy so you could decide between him or your husband. 

Basically your husband was plan B until little boy sucked in bed, so then you tossed him back and went back to your plan B and your son.

And now you want him to stop divorcing you and take you back? He has given you three generous chances and every single time you've used the chance to emasculate, hurt, humiliate, and betray him worse each time.

He'd be a complete idiot to believe even one more lie at this point. What would you do with one more chance? Have the boy's kid for Matt to raise?

No, your husband has given you so much rope. So much love, care, and chances, and you in return have treated him with derision, disrespect, and viewed him as the prize awarded to the last place finisher.

If you actually had real remorse, my advice to you would be not only to give him the divorce he has suffered through so much betrayal to earn, but you'd not take a dime of alimony and give him primary custody. He lost his wife because she choose another man over him, he shouldn't loose having his son in is his life each and every day because his wife no longer values him.

You should also self report yourself to what ever school you teach at. I'm sure they take very dim view of teacher who sleep with their students.


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## Shaggy

Acabado said:


> First, it's not necessarily true no matter how many times we tell us.
> Second and the real issue here is she felt entitled to find out (while faking reconciliation, goinf MC, assisting IC, reading books in this very subject) and then... what if by chance grass was indeed greener?
> - Prolong the cake eating as long as she could?
> - Sorry Matt but I found out my soulmate and I'm leaving you for him?
> - Leaving a note explaining she run off the sunset (broadway) with OM? Son will be OK just with you?
> 
> If I were Matt I'd be hightly interested in knowing it.


Exactly - She viewed it as perfectly OK to give the kid a spin in the sack to see if they were meant to be together.

The ring on her finger and the son she had didn't offer up any clues to her about where her loyalty lay.

Instead it came down to whether the kid was good in the sack or not.


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## The Middleman

:iagree::iagree:
You Go Shaggy!


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## Kasler

Racer said:


> You just about nailed it... What she found was he wasn’t good in bed. So, she skipped back home. See what “saved” her marriage in her head? It wasn’t anything Matt was or wasn’t doing.... It was what the OM was or wasn’t doing...
> 
> That is the problem. She basing her value of the marriage by how she feels about others... Or more specifically, she sees it as “her marriage” and does not value her husband’s ideas about how he might feel about it. That wasn’t at all important to her. Thus, there is no freaking way this marriage will work. “Love, Honor, Cherish”.... words that hold no value for her beyond that of self.


Right on the money. 

If OM gave her the best sex of her life she'd be telling matt "I love you, but I'm not in love with you, I found my soulmate, etc."


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## WyshIknew

Mrs Mathias.

Take a look (if you have'nt done so already) at the threads of Tears, ChangingMe and Devistated Dad, EI, Juicers wife.

That might give you a clue as to what you have to do.
Ask them for advice.


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## Shaggy

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I have been 100% honest... the last trickle truth was Sunday morning when I confessed having been the one to renew contact and the book exchange. I have spent so long censoring my statements or simply not communicating because i was afraid of the negativity (projected or not). I cannot do that anymore. If we will survive this, <b>I have to get over my fear and habit of omission to spare feelings</b>. It's incredibly hard, and my instincts all warn against it... I'm not sure how that became the norm for me.


You need to be honest with yourself because you aren't there yet.

You lied to him not to spare is feelings. You lied because you knew during the repeated betrayals that to actually tell the truth would cause the affair and your freedom to conduct it to end. 

After Dday #n, you've continued to lie because you know that at this point he's go so many reasons to leave and never speak with you again, that you fear any more truth will seal your fate.

So you need to admit to yourself you lie to quite simply safe yourself and to enable you to continue to lie.


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## Kasler

^ Don't expect her to shaggy, thats what she does best. 

Any fault of her own she'll just rationalize it away in her head. 

As if shes honestly taken more than a few seconds to think about her family. Everything has been about her since day one, and she can't even own up to that.


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## Juicer

WyshIknew said:


> Mrs Mathias.
> 
> Take a look (if you have'nt done so already) at the threads of Tears, ChangingMe and Devistated Dad, EI, Juicers wife.
> 
> That might give you a clue as to what you have to do.
> Ask them for advice.


Wife's thread is gone. 

But I'll give a picture of what it looked like:

She didn't argue with me about quitting her job. She asked me if I wanted to accompany her. 
She didn't argue about a NC letter. She had me help her write it. 
She hand delivered it (with me right behind her)
She followed me around like a puppy dog
My health was in the toilet. So she (with the advice from several posters of which I owe a lot of thanks too) nursed me back to health.
She turned over her phone and email to me. 

And those are just a few of the things she did. She did A LOT more. 
You are having trouble with doing the FIRST thing I listed!
See why a lot of people are advising your husband to divorce? If you can't follow one thing on the list for reconciliation, you shouldn't even bother following it at all.


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## The Middleman

WyshIknew said:


> Mrs Mathias.
> 
> Take a look (if you have'nt done so already) at the threads of Tears, ChangingMe and Devistated Dad, EI, Juicers wife.
> 
> That might give you a clue as to what you have to do.
> Ask them for advice.


If you ask me, ChangingMe should not be on your list.


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## iheartlife

I think what I find rather shocking is that, according to your husband, after he had caught you (once? twice?) you then started marriage counseling. You apparently found this forum and read threads here. You even (if your husband is to be believed) read the book Not Just Friends.

None of those actions stopped you--your husband had to catch you a third time. And really, he didn't catch you at all; he WAS SO TRUSTING HE WASN'T VERIFYING THAT YOU WEREN'T IN NO CONTACT. No, your BF's GF had to be the one to expose you.

Under these circumstances, it becomes extremely hard to believe that you won't just cheat again when you next become infatuated. You seem to be under the childish misimpression that a few butterflies in the stomach means you ought to pursue a relationship with that person. Someone who is a student, someone so much your junior, someone with a GIRLFRIEND, someone who could NEVER, for example, be a stepfather to your son. Someone with whom you had no realistic expectation of any sort of future, except validation, compliments, and sex.

I just don't see any evidence that you won't do this again, the next time a young man decides to kiss you.

You acknowledge you have awful boundaries--as if what, that is some sort of excuse for the pain you've caused? Someone with self-acknowledged awful boundaries is not to be trusted.

I really see little hope except for you to find a pro-marriage individual counselor who can work with you to understand why on earth you could ever think this was a way to approach any sort of problems you might be facing. No matter what those issues were, you chose very, very poorly. Really, it doesn't get much worse than this. 

I'm not saying this to chastise you; but tell me this--if you heard this story somewhere else--wouldn't your first reaction be that you were asking to be caught, asking to be dumped, trying to get divorced? As someone else has said, this behavior isn't intellectually inquisitive. It's self-destructive.


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## ItsGonnabeAlright

I think in a way you are taking the stance of, 'victim'. In your story you state that the OM kissed you when you went to see him. Not that, 'We kissed', and you had also kissed him. I mean why did you deem it necessary to drop by? I hope I don't come off as accusatory, but I think that It's obvious you went after the OM as well, you got caught and you are now seeking pity or justification. 
OM did NOT claim part of you. You gave it to him. I'm sure you know how to avoid someone you find annoying or unlikeable, so why was that approach not taken? Of course, my questions are rhetorical and don't need to answered.


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## warlock07

OP, iread through the first post. I haven't read the other posts but tell me one thing you did for your family of Matt..You were failure every step of the way. Not one thing, not one thing in the whole post did you do to help Matt or stop your selfish behavior. It was all about you, your achievements, your work and your pain. 

You are an utter disaster and failure as a wife, a teacher, a mother or even a decent person. I wouldn't blame Matt if he leaves you. In fact, I think he is better off.


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## sharkeey

warlock07 said:


> You are an utter disaster and failure as a wife, a teacher, a mother or even a decent person. I wouldn't blame Matt if he leaves you. In fact, I think he is better off.


I don't know that you can say with any certainty that she's a failure as a teacher.

From what I've read, I'm thinking she might be very good at motivating her students to learn new things.


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## Acabado

Romantizing the sordiness is so horrible but then here we are, supposedly over a month after the fiasco who killed the magic and some time to reconsider things from a more grounded perspective, and you are still trying to sell yourslef this piece of horsesh1t wrapped in cellophane, tied with beatiful ribbons and a drop of perfume to mask the stink.
I imagine you artistic spirit helps with this but friend... wake up, please. Take a couple of steps back and see the big picture. Write the facts in third person. As it happened to someone else. Stop romantizing this, stop idealizing, white whashing, glamourizing this...
The lies, the sneaking around, the plotting... not nice, not glamurous, no romantic at all. Not cool. Not a musical.
And please, come clean if you didn't already. Lack of honesty at this point won't help you, regardless the outcome. For you own sake you need to face the mirror.


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## Mrs_Mathias

Thank you all for the feedback so far, it has been very thought-provoking. You have all made very good points about my total disregard for Matt, and the repeated opportunities that he has given me. There is absolutely nothing in my current history that shows I can/will change. Only time can show that. As I mentioned multiple times, I am proceeding with divorce with Matt. I have every intention of giving him what he needs/wants and making a custody decision that is right for the both of us. I will NEVER keep his son from him, he is a wonderful parent.

Regarding what I'm doing to be accountable to Matt, he has full access to all my phone/email/online accounts. I am absolutely willing to quit my job, to move to another city, to do whatever he needs. I am not trying to persuade him to keep me, I am discussing events as he wishes to bring it up or ask questions. I think it is ok for me to have hope, butd truly do want whatever is best for Matt to come out of this situation healed and with his self-respect.

Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if that transcendent connection had been there with OM when we had sex. Yes, it would have made things exponentially more confusing, and I should never have opened the door to that opportunity. I did NOT have a condom with me, but he did Yes, that is an absolutely abhorrent thing. Yes, I over-romanticize and need to get a grip on that emotional side of me. Yes, I was not thinking of my son or Matt in the least, and simply trying to find an end to my own confusion.

I will spend some time over the break going through the threads that have been recommended.


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## warlock07

> I know it was wrong. I know it was incredibly self-destructive. I know that the whole series of choices I had made since seeing him on the street that day were ruining everything I claimed to be working towards and wanting with my husband. And yet the obsessive part of me, the “need to know” if OM was really the right person all along, wouldn’t let go. We had sex. It was not what I expected. Sex with my husband has always been a transformative experience. We both feel almost out of our bodies, connected with one another, completely as one. I think part of me expected that same type of connection with OM. That if he was magically fated for me by the universe this would confirm that and then we could figure out what that meant later. Part of me also wanted that not to happen. To prove that he was not destined for me like that and I could go back to my husband knowing that my heart could be his fully. It is completely selfish, totally cruel and inconsiderate, but I didn’t know any other way to ever know that answer. Matt and I had talked over the previous months about the division in my heart, and I knew I wanted more for him and he wanted more for himself than someone who was always half in love with someone else.


This is coming off as the snobbish and delusional art student/teacher stereotype. You seriously have an exaggerated belief about your importance or relevance. Serious delusions of grandeur thorough your entire post..

This might be harsh but take what you can..

Or is it how people speak in the art world ?


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## Mrs_Mathias

Acabado said:


> Romantizing the sordiness is so horrible but then here we are, supposedly over a month after the fiasco who killed the magic and some time to reconsider things from a more grounded perspective, and you are still trying to sell yourslef this piece of horsesh1t wrapped in cellophane, tied with beatiful ribbons and a drop of perfume to mask the stink.
> 
> Friend, wake up, please. Take a couple of steps back and see the big picture. Write the facts in third person. As it happened to someone else. Stop romantizing this, stop idealizing, white whashing, glamourizing this...
> And please, come clean if you didn't already. Lack of honesty at this point won't help you, regardless the outcome. For you own sake you need to face the mirror.


I guess I wrote from first person because I am trying to own my mistakes, not detach from them. The original post wasn't really planned or edited in any way. I had a brief break between classes and spilled it all out as coherently as possible in one go.


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## Acabado

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I guess I wrote from first person because I am trying to own my mistakes, not detach from them. The original post wasn't really planned or edited in any way. I had a brief break between classes and spilled it all out as coherently as possible in one go.


Sorry, I was not talking about your thread. Was suggesting an little exercise which might help you to see the severity of all this, pink glasses out.


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## jim123

Mrs_Mathias said:


> Thank you all for the feedback so far, it has been very thought-provoking. You have all made very good points about my total disregard for Matt, and the repeated opportunities that he has given me. There is absolutely nothing in my current history that shows I can/will change. Only time can show that. As I mentioned multiple times, I am proceeding with divorce with Matt. I have every intention of giving him what he needs/wants and making a custody decision that is right for the both of us. I will NEVER keep his son from him, he is a wonderful parent.
> 
> Regarding what I'm doing to be accountable to Matt, he has full access to all my phone/email/online accounts. I am absolutely willing to quit my job, to move to another city, to do whatever he needs. I am not trying to persuade him to keep me, I am discussing events as he wishes to bring it up or ask questions. I think it is ok for me to have hope, butd truly do want whatever is best for Matt to come out of this situation healed and with his self-respect.
> 
> Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if that transcendent connection had been there with OM when we had sex. Yes, it would have made things exponentially more confusing, and I should never have opened the door to that opportunity. I did NOT have a condom with me, but he did Yes, that is an absolutely abhorrent thing. Yes, I over-romanticize and need to get a grip on that emotional side of me. Yes, I was not thinking of my son or Matt in the least, and simply trying to find an end to my own confusion.
> 
> I will spend some time over the break going through the threads that have been recommended.


Do not know what you would have done? Wow. That says it all. You are only back because OM did not work out not because you love your husband. 

You will do this again if your husband stays. The next young student will come along that you have to try out to once again end that confusion.

You write very good fiction and I hope your H sees through it.


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## sharkeey

Mrs_Mathias said:


> Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if that transcendent connection had been there with OM when we had sex.


Are you grading his tests?

That doesn't seem fair.


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## jnj express

Hey Mrs M-----who is planning on getting the D---you talk in your last major post of D--is that coming from your H., or from you

I understand that you now all of a sudden "get it"--and allegedly are now going to do what you can---may be way to late---but at least you have figured it all out

What is it that you are gonna do to help your H---thru all of this----do you go to him and hold him when he is in pain, from trigerring---and from his visions------are you really an open book, to him------would you actually grovel if he asked you to---not that he would, but how much heavy lifting would you/are you actually doing

If you were to get the 3rd chance, what will you do to make the mge work----are you willing to sit down every night and spend 30 minutes in serious conversation if necessary, to help the mge make it thru---as you should have in the 1st place

You probably no matter what should keep your job---but can you now deal with your students on a level above the emotional level you were on --------you are not the only teacher out there who teaches music/drama, and thousands of music/drama teachers do NOT involve themselves into their students lives----the ones that do, like you end up on the cutting room floor
When you are married and have young children---you do not bring young men into your home, especially those that you only know from an outside level, where you really in all actually don't know them at all, they could actually be psychos---you only see them in a school invornment---yet you brought them into your own home, and destroyed your H., with them.

Can you really become SELFLESS, and not SELFISH-------

I would suggest, and once again this may all be too late---but I would suggest you go back to the days when the 2 of you saw nothing but each other, and there was no one else in the world, but the 2 of you----go back and COURT your H---ask him out on a date---take him on a picnic---take him to things HE likes to do----take your shot---you have nothing to lose

Invest some time in your H, invest some time in your young child---like you should have long ago and far away---you will not lose your job, if you do not get emotionally involved with your students---what you very likely are about to lose is a whole HE*L of a lot more

As I am sure you can tell I do not like cheaters/cheating, and anything that goes with it---if you don't want to be with someone---get your D, and go be with as many men as you want---but get your D., and free your spouse so they do NOT have to go thru the pain of an A set against them

I am making my statement, cuz in my mind, I think you now do "get it", it just may be much toooo late---but for your young child's sake, you do need to try----I wish you luck, and hopefully you have learned something, and whoever you do end up with in the future---you will think of them, before you think of satisfying your physical infatuations that are realy nothing but fantasy


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Broken at 20 said:


> Well I just got home from a really long shift at a grocery store the week of Thanksgiving, so I may be a little scrambled, and didn't feel like reading the pages because I am lazy, but here is what it sounds like:
> You feel like you are owning up to this sh!t storm you stirred up.
> 
> Yet all of us, being great BS spotters, are calling you out on it.
> 
> One thing I noticed:
> 
> Many of the WW that are trully sorry, like legititately sorry, have cried, and have no problem saying they are crying. They say poor hubby. They say how much they love them. And they are crying their eyes out.
> 
> In your earlier post, and the post I read on this page, you haven't done any of this.
> Doesn't even sound like you have dropped a tear. I bet your husband has cried more than you have.
> 
> I don't believe you are sorry for your actions.
> Your upset because you are going to lose either your wife/motherhood, or your profession.
> Yet you sound more upset about losing your profession than you do about losing your husband.
> 
> Says a lot about you.


I haven't written about my tears, my complete inability to eat, vomiting up my own bile, and the myriad of other things I go through as I face what I put Matt through because I'm trying to not let this be about my pain/guilt/sadness. When I look at him and what he is going through, the grief I feel is indescribable, and I'm sure less than 1% of what he's feeling. I do love him. But nothing I have done shows that. I neglected that love, rejected it in the face of something else, and absolutely buried it behind my love of myself.


----------



## Broken at 20

Is he seeing this hurt and broken side of you? Or are you hiding it?


----------



## Acabado

OM is not her student. He was, a couple of years ago. Bad enough.
Since then is/was more a coworker, colaborator.
Just puting things straight.

Why don't read the thread?


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

jnj express said:


> Hey Mrs M-----who is planning on getting the D---you talk in your last major post of D--is that coming from your H., or from you
> 
> We are pursuing divorce together. He requested it after D-day #2 and I agreed.
> 
> I understand that you now all of a sudden "get it"--and allegedly are now going to do what you can---may be way to late---but at least you have figured it all out
> 
> What is it that you are gonna do to help your H---thru all of this----do you go to him and hold him when he is in pain, from trigerring---and from his visions------are you really an open book, to him------would you actually grovel if he asked you to---not that he would, but how much heavy lifting would you/are you actually doing
> 
> If you were to get the 3rd chance, what will you do to make the mge work----are you willing to sit down every night and spend 30 minutes in serious conversation if necessary, to help the mge make it thru---as you should have in the 1st place
> 
> I will do all those things, if he wants them from me. Currently, he does not want me touching him. I would grovel and beg, but he doesn't want me to do that either. will do anything, all the heavy lifting (which I still need to read more about) but I can't force myself and my attentions on him at this point. I made that mistake back in August/September, and again this morning before writing this post, and I have a better understanding now of my desire to "control" the situation and fear of giving him space. My understanding of his needs has changed from this thread, and I am very grateful for that.
> 
> You probably no matter what should keep your job---but can you now deal with your students on a level above the emotional level you were on --------you are not the only teacher out there who teaches music/drama, and thousands of music/drama teachers do NOT involve themselves into their students lives----the ones that do, like you end up on the cutting room floor
> When you are married and have young children---you do not bring young men into your home, especially those that you only know from an outside level, where you really in all actually don't know them at all, they could actually be psychos---you only see them in a school invornment---yet you brought them into your own home, and destroyed your H., with them.
> 
> I have made a definite change on this since the affair. I am much more cognizant of what I share with students, and how I allow them to interact with me.
> 
> Can you really become SELFLESS, and not SELFISH-------
> 
> I would suggest, and once again this may all be too late---but I would suggest you go back to the days when the 2 of you saw nothing but each other, and there was no one else in the world, but the 2 of you----go back and COURT your H---ask him out on a date---take him on a picnic---take him to things HE likes to do----take your shot---you have nothing to lose
> 
> I would love to do that, but again, it has to be on his timetable and with his desires. We talked tonight for a while about our relationship, and one of the realizations that I came to is that I stopped interacting with Matt the man, rather than the parent/husband. We used to be best friends, but I allowed myself to lose track of him and his likes/desires beyond our parenting and basic household life.
> 
> Invest some time in your H, invest some time in your young child---like you should have long ago and far away---you will not lose your job, if you do not get emotionally involved with your students---what you very likely are about to lose is a whole HE*L of a lot more
> 
> As I am sure you can tell I do not like cheaters/cheating, and anything that goes with it---if you don't want to be with someone---get your D, and go be with as many men as you want---but get your D., and free your spouse so they do NOT have to go thru the pain of an A set against them
> 
> I am making my statement, cuz in my mind, I think you now do "get it", it just may be much toooo late---but for your young child's sake, you do need to try----I wish you luck, and hopefully you have learned something, and whoever you do end up with in the future---you will think of them, before you think of satisfying your physical infatuations that are realy nothing but fantasy


----------



## FalconKing

I bet what attracted your husband to you was your driven nature. He probably assumed that the effort you put into your personal endeavors you would put into your passion in marriage. But it didn't work out that way. I don't think marriage was maybe meant for you. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. You put your passion and time into your work. You want gratitude and praise that is work related. You could care less about getting it from your husband. I don't think you expected to compromise in marriage. You may have thought you could do whatever you want and just have your husband to soak your time when you weren't doing things work related. You completely pushed your husband out of your life. You brought work home literally and probably on a subconsciously level didn't want time with your husband. You called the shots in the marriage. And you perverted it. You have a dominant personality and you lack consideration for how your actions effect others. Have your other relationships been like this? Have you always had boyfriends love you around your schedule? It's so interesting to me that a woman as intelligent and driven as you completely ignored the needs of her husband in marriage. It's perhaps a strong personality defect. You cared so little about your husbands happiness that you had to have had a skewed view of marriage.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Broken at 20 said:


> Is he seeing this hurt and broken side of you? Or are you hiding it?


He has seen it.


----------



## warlock07

The one time you slept with the OM is the one time you got found out...


Telling Matt that I slept with him more than once will only hurt him more. If I am lying, I am doing it for him. 

Sleeping once or a few more times. What difference does it make? The hurt was already done. 

Maybe I'll tell him more when things are better between us. Telling him now will end any chance of repairing the marriage.

I will keep lying to Matt if that is only chance my son has for a family.


----------



## jim123

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I haven't written about my tears, my complete inability to eat, vomiting up my own bile, and the myriad of other things I go through as I face what I put Matt through because I'm trying to not let this be about my pain/guilt/sadness. When I look at him and what he is going through, the grief I feel is indescribable, and I'm sure less than 1% of what he's feeling. I do love him. But nothing I have done shows that. I neglected that love, rejected it in the face of something else, and absolutely buried it behind my love of myself.


But if OM had rocked your world that night, you would not be too worried about Matt nor have you until it did not work out with OM. That is the problem you face. I think your husband is smart enough to see that.


----------



## TBT

Your H says you get plenty of messages of support from friends and students saying things like "don't be too hard on yourself"...do you reply to them? If you do,what do you say to them as a mentor,as someone who can have and has had some impact on their lives? I mean their support lends credence to a possible belief that what you did wasn't so bad after all.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

FalconKing said:


> I bet what attracted your husband to you was your driven nature. He probably assumed that the effort you put into your personal endeavors you would put into your passion in marriage. But it didn't work out that way. I don't think marriage was maybe meant for you. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. You put your passion and time into your work. You want gratitude and praise that is work related. You could care less about getting it from your husband. I don't think you expected to compromise in marriage. You may have thought you could do whatever you want and just have your husband to soak your time when you weren't doing things work related.
> 
> You are the second person to make this point to me today. An ex-BF of mine (who is friends with Matt, and Matt contacted to talk about the situation) wrote this to me on FB:
> 
> "Why, when you seem to understand that it isn’t where you flourish, do you want to focus on being a good wife/mother... Like everyone on earth, you’re good at some things, bad at others, and exceptional at a few. Don’t hang your happiness on the ones you know you’re bad at."
> 
> My relationship with Matt was always easy, effortless. We worked and went to school, we came home and shared time together, and did it all again the next day. We never fought, not really in all these years. I know I took that ease for granted, and lost touch with our connection in the process, assuming all was fine because it wasn't "bad" between us, if that makes any sense.
> 
> I need to spend more time thinking about whether I am truly not suited to be a wife. I don't feel it's true, but my feelings/beliefs have certainly been colossally wrong lately.
> 
> 
> You completely pushed your husband out of your life. You brought work home literally and probably on a subconsciously level didn't want time with your husband. You called the shots in the marriage. And you perverted it. You have a dominant personality and you lack consideration for how your actions effect others. Have your other relationships been like this? Have you always had boyfriends love you around your schedule? It's so interesting to me that a woman as intelligent and driven as you completely ignored the needs of her husband in marriage. It's perhaps a strong personality defect. You cared so little about your husbands happiness that you had to have had a skewed view of marriage.
> 
> Prior to Matt, I only had 2 serious boyfriends. One was short term, a summer before moving away to college, and one for about 2 years. I honestly have no idea if my other relationships were like this. I feel like my relationships have always been about respecting individuality as well as shared time, and it's hard to evaluate whether it was "love around my schedule" because those relationships were when we were students, with jobs, and sacrificing school/living wage for a boyfriend was not reasonable, in my mind, at that stage of life.
> 
> I always felt like there would be time for Matt, that I just needed to finish XYZ and then we can do whatever it is that was on our list. Clearly that was not the case, and I didn't recognize it.


----------



## Summer4744

Mrs. Mathias. Kudos for facing the firing squad and hanging in there. It is true what you did was reprehensible, but at least you are taking responsibility and are trying to grow.

Just a question. It seems like you are headed for a divorce and I assume joint custody. Without your husband there to share parenting duties, without your husband there to pay half the rent how will you get by? 

I assume you will not be able to throw yourself into your work with the same zeal. And I assume these incoming freshman will not know you the same way as the students did in the past, and they will not shower you with as much affection. 

How will you be able to fill the void in your life that always existed, especially now that you will also be without your husband?


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## Mrs_Mathias

TBT said:


> Your H says you get plenty of messages of support from friends and students saying things like "don't be too hard on yourself"...do you reply to them? If you do,what do you say to them as a mentor,as someone who can have and has had some impact on their lives? I mean their support lends credence to a possible belief that what you did wasn't so bad after all.


The messages are from friends and former students. My current students are not knowledgeable of this in any way, as far as I know. My response is that there is no such thing as too hard on myself, that the mistakes I have made are completely inexcusable on every level, but that I am working to find a sense of peace and hopefully eventually self-forgiveness. I thank them for their caring, and know that I don't deserve one ounce of it.


----------



## Will_Kane

I thought I might have been the only one reading this thinking how improbable that there allegedly was only "one kiss" that spurred this whole affair.

Then after being caught, kept pursuing other man, when all they had done to that point was "kiss once."

Theoretically possible but completely UNBELIEVABLE.

Schedule the polygraph.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Mrs_Mathias said:


> Thank you all for the feedback so far, it has been very thought-provoking. You have all made very good points about my total disregard for Matt, and the repeated opportunities that he has given me. There is absolutely nothing in my current history that shows I can/will change. Only time can show that. As I mentioned multiple times, I am proceeding with divorce with Matt. I have every intention of giving him what he needs/wants and making a custody decision that is right for the both of us. I will NEVER keep his son from him, he is a wonderful parent.
> 
> Regarding what I'm doing to be accountable to Matt, he has full access to all my phone/email/online accounts. I am absolutely willing to quit my job, to move to another city, to do whatever he needs. I am not trying to persuade him to keep me, I am discussing events as he wishes to bring it up or ask questions. I think it is ok for me to have hope, butd truly do want whatever is best for Matt to come out of this situation healed and with his self-respect.
> 
> *Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if that transcendent connection had been there with OM when we had sex. Yes, it would have made things exponentially more confusing,* and I should never have opened the door to that opportunity. I did NOT have a condom with me, but he did Yes, that is an absolutely abhorrent thing. Yes, I over-romanticize and need to get a grip on that emotional side of me. Yes, I was not thinking of my son or Matt in the least, and simply trying to find an end to my own confusion.
> 
> I will spend some time over the break going through the threads that have been recommended.


This is the part that makes me think, as much as you might be crying and vomiting etc, you still don't grasp what happened here. 

I want you to jump ahead a decade, when your child is having some issues, to what extent, we don't know yet. So when you're sitting there, 10 years from now, looking at your child and, hopefully, the wonderful person they're becoming, but with a couple "issues" (pick any number of them) and you can trace those issues back to this and KNOW THEN, that it was YOUR selfishness that caused your child to not emotionally mature as well as they would've if you had just been loyal to your family. THAT MIGHT be when you comprehend what has transpired.

I know this because I'm a decade since my divorce, and I watch my oldest struggle. He's fine in school, he has friends, but there are aspects of him that I see are a struggle for him. I know he won't "know" who he is until probably his late 20's etc. He struggles with identity and other common issues that happen to children of divorce.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Summer4744 said:


> Mrs. Mathias. Kudos for facing the firing squad and hanging in there. It is true what you did was reprehensible, but at least you are taking responsibility and are trying to grow.
> 
> Just a question. It seems like you are headed for a divorce and I assume joint custody. Without your husband there to share parenting duties, without your husband there to pay half the rent how will you get by?
> 
> We will have to sell our home and I will have to find something more affordable. As artists we have both lived on very little in the past. It may not be desirable, but it's not impossible.
> 
> I assume you will not be able to throw yourself into your work with the same zeal. And I assume these incoming freshman will not know you the same way as the students did in the past, and they will not shower you with as much affection.
> 
> How will you be able to fill the void in your life that always existed, especially now that you will also be without your husband?
> 
> I think one of the biggest obstacles I face for IC is this constant definition of self through job. I have to come to a sense of self-awareness that is not tied to a particular achievement, or position. How I do that is still a mystery to me, but I will keep trying.


----------



## warlock07

Why was OM even an option ? Had you connected(pukes) wonderfully that "fated night that was meant to be" when the universe in sync blah blah, what would have happened ?

I might have missed this but did the OM dump you ?


----------



## Mr Blunt

Mrs. Mathias

*Your life is not over. You can get a lot better*


Only your actions this year and the many years to come will determine how much you recover or if you recover at all. Several have already told you that you need to work on you and I agree 100% with that. I would suggest that your main concern not be holding on to your husband or marriage but that you build your self up so that if you have a marriage then you will not do such destructive actions to destroy the relationship

You have been brave so far to take the posts that you got so far. That makes me think that you are determined, at least for now you are. *Remember this is a marathon of years and not months. Make a plan and be 100% determined and disciplined.*

*Whether you get divorced or not you will always be the mother of that child*. For that reason you need support from those supportive people where you live and anywhere else you can get it.


I truly hope that you get better


----------



## jnj express

Financially---you will be OK---by yourself---you can make it on a teachers salary----and the one good thing is that the retirement IS GOOD----but a teachers salary if you are on your own is enuff---


----------



## jim123

Dad&Hubby said:


> This is the part that makes me think, as much as you might be crying and vomiting etc, you still don't grasp what happened here.
> 
> I want you to jump ahead a decade, when your child is having some issues, to what extent, we don't know yet. So when you're sitting there, 10 years from now, looking at your child and, hopefully, the wonderful person they're becoming, but with a couple "issues" (pick any number of them) and you can trace those issues back to this and KNOW THEN, that it was YOUR selfishness that caused your child to not emotionally mature as well as they would've if you had just been loyal to your family. THAT MIGHT be when you comprehend what has transpired.
> 
> I know this because I'm a decade since my divorce, and I watch my oldest struggle. He's fine in school, he has friends, but there are aspects of him that I see are a struggle for him. I know he won't "know" who he is until probably his late 20's etc. He struggles with identity and other common issues that happen to children of divorce.


I am focused on the same line. She put everything into OM and it did not meet expectations. If it had then this would be completely different. She has to realize this and I hope Matt does.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Mrs_Mathias said:


> As I mentioned multiple times, I am proceeding with divorce with Matt. I have every intention of giving him what he needs/wants and making a custody decision that is right for the both of us. I will NEVER keep his son from him, he is a wonderful parent.
> .


At the risk of a thread-jack, I will point out that both DrMathias and MrsMathias have said the the Betrayed Husband has been doing more of the child care, yet the unspoken assumption here seems to be that she will/would get get primary custody if she wanted it. 

So much for those who say that the two sexes are treated equally in custody issues. Just because it says so in the law books, doesn't mean that's what happens in the courtroom. There was a shameful time in some of the US southern states when persons of certain races were supposed to be treated equally in the courtroom or at the voting polls, but that didn't happen in practice.


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## Will_Kane

Talk is cheap. Cheaters are known for talking a good game, then doing the opposite. Basically what you've already done.

Based on this thread, you're still doing it.

Still working in the same job, not looking for a new one, still in touch with the students who enabled your affair, responding to their words of encouragement.

What do you think your husband sees when he sees how you are acting now? Nothing any different than when you were cheating on him. You have changed absolutely nothing but supposedly what is inside your head. Your husband is not going to believe you unless you change things he can actually see.

Delete your facebook account; at least, unfriend all students past and present; leaving only family; at the very least, unfriend all male students past and present.

Offer to take a polygraph. Find one and suggest various dates you can go.

Block all of those toxic enablers from your phone, delete their contacts, they are enemies of your marriage and thus enemies to your husband.

Start looking for a new job and let your husband see that you've started the job search.

Destroy any clothing you wore while you had your "one kiss" and your "one time" of sex. Show your husband you are doing it.

Handwrite that no contact letter to the other man and give it to your husband to mail. You don't have to find the other man. If your husband wants to have it delivered, he can find out where other man is. If not, at least he can see that you weren't just giving him lip service about being willing to write it.

*Talk is cheap and all you are doing is giving lip service*. Add to that the lies about only one kiss and only having sex once, which your husband must know deep down, based on how hard you pursued the other man, aren't true.

Lies and lip service are things your husband already got plenty of, he needs HONESTY and ACTION if he's going to consider taking you back.

So far this thread has been about 10 pages of all talk and no action by you. Sorry if you don't like to hear it, but that's how I see it.


----------



## aug

warlock07 said:


> Why was OM even an option ? Had you connected(pukes) wonderfully that "fated night that was meant to be" when the universe in sync blah blah, what would have happened ?
> 
> I might have missed this but* did the OM dump you *?


I'm starting to think that's what happened. The OM was trying to get back together with his exgf Chelsea.


----------



## alte Dame

Mrs_Mathias said:


> Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if that transcendent connection had been there with OM when we had sex. Yes, it would have made things exponentially more confusing, and I should never have opened the door to that opportunity.


I've translated this so that it's clearer:

"To tell the truth, I don't know what I would have done if I'd had mind-blowing orgasms with the OM. No kidding. I would have had to seriously ask myself if I should just ditch the ball and chain or keep cake-eating. OMG, what a decision that would have been! I really dodged a bullet."


----------



## Shaggy

Here's a zany idea:

Go get yourself a polygraph and layout the real timeline and events and use the poly to prove.

a year from now, take another poly, and this time the only question is "have you cheated again the past year"

if you can make it through both polys without being caught in a lie, then Matt will give you one date for you to convince him to give you a fourth chance.


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## J Valley

I seldom post nowadays but reading this thread made me want to say something. MrsMathias may be brilliant in her job but somehow I feel that she is pretty raw and naïve when it comes to relationship. I think you still have a lot to learn. 

When I read that you and your husband have a kid, I feel kinda sad for the boy. My ex wife and I have tried for years to have a kid but to no avail. Sometimes, I wonder whether my ex wife and I would still remain together if we had a kid. Perhaps she would spend more time together with me raising the child rather than working and talking with OM. It is water under the bridge now but it still makes me wonder. If you still love your husband, you would fight for the marriage and your family instead of just walking away. All I see now are just words. Put them in action! You are lucky that you still have a husband. I lost my ex wife on July 2, 2012.


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## Mr Blunt

> Quote By Mrs. Mathias
> *I told him that Matt and my son were the most important things to me, and he said he understood that, wanted me to be happy and just loved me anyway*. It was/is despicable of me, but I craved that feeling. “*Unqualified” love*, or whatever. No judgment about my dedication to my jobs, no feelings of inadequacy, no wondering what he was thinking/feeling and projecting my own emotions in it’s place. We let the EA fully develop with *I love yous*


Mrs. Mathias

I assume you already know this but I want to say this because I have seen this crap so many times. Additionally, I am not writing this to pound on you. You are a human and have value but I am not going to let this go, if not for you, then for others. 

*The words that I have put in bold above are pure rotten shyt! *It is also a perfect example of how weakness, manipulating emotions, and failure to grasp reality can ruin a family. In some cases it also does a lot of harm to innocent children.

Mrs. Mathias, you told the OM that your husband and son was the most important thing to you. He “said he understood that, wanted me to be happy and just loved me anyway.”
What a pure unadulterated violation of love is that crock of Shyt? He wanted you to be happy so he could not wait to kiss you then disrespect you, your husband, and your innocent child. He does not give a Shyt about your happiness or your husband or if he harmed your innocent child.*The OM is a child molester in that he has molested your child’s emotions. There will be fall out over his success with getting what he wanted from you and it was not love. Unfortunately the innocent child can sense the hurt and pain in his parents and he will suffer. *

The man that took advantage of your weakness and dark side knew that. *So there you have it; the OM does not care if he hurts your child and he did hurt your child.* I am not going to let you off the hook but not going there right now as the others have done a very good job of that.

It amazes me that the word love can be so perverted by such selfish, manipulate, foolish, and head stuck up their AZZ people.

I would rather some one be blunt and say I want to phuk you because I want that 10-15 minutes of pleasure and I do not care if I damage your child; than for someone to pervert such a sacred thing as love as a tool to do the same thing.
If a person wants to be a Kockroach then be one without dragging some thing sacred into the sewer with you.

I am bewildered as how people can allow themselves to be foolish simpletons by the manipulation of emotions and then jump right into the sewer with the roaches!

Mrs. Mathias I am writing this so that you get a clear picture of what that OM did to you and your family. *You should despise that OM as he has molested the emotions of your innocent child.* You even told him how important your child was to you and he manipulated anyway because he cared more about a 10-15 pleasure than your child’s emotions. You played a part in that also but my main point is this is to point out the reality of these kinds of evil. *The difference in you and the OM is that you really do care about your child and the OM does not.*

I know that you know all this now but the damage has been done. Maybe someone will learn form your disaster

We read thread after thread after thread about this kind of Shyt every day. 


*Can someone tell me why the uneducated, the educated, the rich, the poor, the good looking, the ugly, the religious, the non-religious, and the famous and the nobodies all seem to not get it until their soul is ripped apart?*


----------



## MEM2020

Let's start with step 1: no one, your husband included is asking you to do to yourself what you did to HIM, which is to put your H last. 

Yes - last. This isn't about putting your work first, and you need to stop framing what happened that way. It is about putting him last. 

Stop feeling sorry for yourself - and define a realistic workload with a realistic schedule, and then stick with that. 

With that said, you also need to cut the theatrics. We aren't your 'drama'
students so no one here is going to buy your statement that sex with Matt was always a' transformative experience when juxtaposed with: we lived like room mates for a long time. 

As for you focusing on needing to be 'fixed' before you can help him, that is just more black and white thinking. 

You need to be giving and kind and considerate. That doesn't require optimization, just basic functioning. 

As for Matt, he needs to determine whether he has enough spine to prevent more of your doormatification program.


----------



## Affaircare

MrsMathias~

I would like to write to you and talk to you because I sincerely think I could help. Here's the problem: you may want to prepare yourself for some "less than friendly" responses, because the vast majority of people who post here are in your husband's shoes (the Loyal Spouse) and very few are the one who was Disloyal. As you might imagine, the replies can be a little harsh due to the hurt they suffered. If someone is harsh to you, take it with a grain of salt and keep this in mind--but if someone gets disrespectful or calls you names, you do not need to put up with that. Please just report that person using the little button (it looks like a triangle and an !) and let the moderators take care of it. Okay?

Second, I've been in your shoes, even to the point of being a real "worker" kind of person loving the achievement, accolades and attention of my work peers. This can be a very tricky thing and I think I have some really good thoughts for you. But the fact of the matter is that it's midnight here and I was just heading to bed. 

So I'm going to ask you a favor. I'm going to write to you tomorrow (Tuesday) and I'm going to start at the beginning. I'm going to go through your whole first post and point out little points where there is an alternative you didn't consider...or an option where you could have gone X instead of Y to protect your marriage. This current marriage may honestly be over--I can't honestly say that if I were in your hubby's shoes that I'd give you another chance. BUT for your own good, for your own growth as a human and a woman and a wife one day...it would be good for you to know where you crossed the border from healthy reality into unhealthy fantasy...and some changes you could make to make a real difference. 

Until tomorrow, my best advice is to focus on being transparent--that means being see through so that your husband and see the TRUE YOU. Don't hide behind images, or "keeping him from being hurt", or anything!! Part of the reason you don't know the real you is because you HIDE the True You from the person who should know you intimately! So be afraid...sure! Be brave and show him the real you anyway. Be see through. Focus on that and on him for right now. I'll write ASAP tomorrow.


----------



## Numbersixxx

He gave you more than enough chances for you to make it right. Instead, you decided to respond by hurting and humiliating him, more and more after every chance he gave you. You wanted to play cougar, conspiring behind your husbands back and lying to his face, and when the whole thing was exposed, you just want to go back to your reliable husband and be a family woman. I am sorry, but what kind of a wife and a mother has sex with boys that are almost young enough to be her children? What kind of a teacher is having sex with her students? You really think you can have it all.

The only reasonable solution if for him to divorce you. Maybe you can win him back after that, but I think he deserves better than to having a wife in need of supervision the whole time and worrying that she is chasing after teenage boys again.


----------



## MEM2020

Mrs. M,
for the sake of clarity, I am rooting for you to recon. 

My tone was intentional. If you were freezing him out physically for an extended period of time - best not to describe sex as transformative. Sounds contradictory.



MEM11363 said:


> Let's start with step 1: no one, your husband included is asking you to do to yourself what you did to HIM, which is to put your H last.
> 
> Yes - last. This isn't about putting your work first, and you need to stop framing what happened that way. It is about putting him last.
> 
> Stop feeling sorry for yourself - and define a realistic workload with a realistic schedule, and then stick with that.
> 
> With that said, you also need to cut the theatrics. We aren't your 'drama'
> students so no one here is going to buy your statement that sex with Matt was always a' transformative experience when juxtaposed with: we lived like room mates for a long time.
> 
> As for you focusing on needing to be 'fixed' before you can help him, that is just more black and white thinking.
> 
> You need to be giving and kind and considerate. That doesn't require optimization, just basic functioning.
> 
> As for Matt, he needs to determine whether he has enough spine to prevent more of your doormatification program.


----------



## A++

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I always felt like there would be time for Matt, that I just needed to finish XYZ
> and then we can do whatever it is that was on our list.


hmm.. You already finished X... But, I wonder what YZ will be?? if he give you a fourth chance.


----------



## WyshIknew

Mrs Mathias have you thought about giving your husband a free pass, perhaps at Chelsea if she is willing?
Failing that, from his thread there seems to have been ample opportunity with other young women which, as a _faithful_ husband he has turned down and informed you of inappropriate approaches.
It might give him a chance to decide if sex with them was a transformative experience to see if he is magically fated to be with someone else.

Has there been any sort of reparation from OM to your husband. It sounds like there is no remorse from him at all, (perhaps bragging even?) and all he has said is "it could have been better"
He now gets to live his life happy and carefree, reconnecting with his girlfriend having, with you, shattered and crushed your husband.
By the way this young man needs to learn some respect because he will do it to the wrong person one day and he will get beaten to a pulp.


----------



## Numbersixxx

Mr Blunt said:


> Mrs. Mathias
> 
> I assume you already know this but I want to say this because I have seen this crap so many times. Additionally, I am not writing this to pound on you. You are a human and have value but I am not going to let this go, if not for you, then for others.
> 
> *The words that I have put in bold above are pure rotten shyt! *It is also a perfect example of how weakness, manipulating emotions, and failure to grasp reality can ruin a family. In some cases it also does a lot of harm to innocent children.
> 
> Mrs. Mathias, you told the OM that your husband and son was the most important thing to you. He “said he understood that, wanted me to be happy and just loved me anyway.”
> What a pure unadulterated violation of love is that crock of Shyt? He wanted you to be happy so he could not wait to kiss you then disrespect you, your husband, and your innocent child. He does not give a Shyt about your happiness or your husband or if he harmed your innocent child.*The OM is a child molester in that he has molested your child’s emotions. There will be fall out over his success with getting what he wanted from you and it was not love. Unfortunately the innocent child can sense the hurt and pain in his parents and he will suffer. *
> 
> The man that took advantage of your weakness and dark side knew that. *So there you have it; the OM does not care if he hurts your child and he did hurt your child.* I am not going to let you off the hook but not going there right now as the others have done a very good job of that.
> 
> It amazes me that the word love can be so perverted by such selfish, manipulate, foolish, and head stuck up their AZZ people.
> 
> I would rather some one be blunt and say I want to phuk you because I want that 10-15 minutes of pleasure and I do not care if I damage your child; than for someone to pervert such a sacred thing as love as a tool to do the same thing.
> If a person wants to be a Kockroach then be one without dragging some thing sacred into the sewer with you.
> 
> I am bewildered as how people can allow themselves to be foolish simpletons by the manipulation of emotions and then jump right into the sewer with the roaches!
> 
> Mrs. Mathias I am writing this so that you get a clear picture of what that OM did to you and your family. *You should despise that OM as he has molested the emotions of your innocent child.* You even told him how important your child was to you and he manipulated anyway because he cared more about a 10-15 pleasure than your child’s emotions. You played a part in that also but my main point is this is to point out the reality of these kinds of evil. *The difference in you and the OM is that you really do care about your child and the OM does not.*
> 
> I know that you know all this now but the damage has been done. Maybe someone will learn form your disaster
> 
> We read thread after thread after thread about this kind of Shyt every day.
> 
> 
> *Can someone tell me why the uneducated, the educated, the rich, the poor, the good looking, the ugly, the religious, the non-religious, and the famous and the nobodies all seem to not get it until their soul is ripped apart?*


I think you should not be so harsh on the OM – calling him a child molester. Yes, what he did was despicable. But remember, he was just a horny 19 year old boy. She is supposed to be the mature adult.


----------



## BjornFree

Numbersixxx said:


> I think you should not be so harsh on the OM – calling him a child molester. Yes, what he did was despicable. But remember, he was just a horny 19 year old boy. She is supposed to be the mature adult.


I agree and as callous as it sounds, a young kid in his teens or his early twenties hardly if ever gives a fuc.k about the children of the woman he's boning. Hell, middle aged people who have affairs don't really care about their children. Quite clearly Mrs M did not care about her kid's future when she was having the affair(a mere observation not intended to define Mrs M's nature).

It takes two to have an affair and one to break a marriage. The OM is not the person guilty of the latter.


----------



## BjornFree

Mr Blunt said:


> *Can someone tell me why the uneducated, the educated, the rich, the poor, the good looking, the ugly, the religious, the non-religious, and the famous and the nobodies all seem to not get it until their soul is ripped apart?*


No


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Advise for you for the well being of your soon to be X and your son:

You care more about your job and your career then your husband and son. You are not going to change because job, students etc. feed your ego and both your husband and son are distactions from this. Give full custody to your husband, you will not put the time into raising your son properly because it will take you away from what feeds your ego. He is a distraction to you.

Let your husband go, do not hold him hostage with child custody, you do not love him and only use him as a Safety Net. He deserves more. If you really care and are remorseful agree to terms of the Divorce which will allow your husband to raise your son without having to deal with you about any issues.


----------



## Pluto2

I've read through all the posts, and honey, you continue to sound as selfish as you did on your first post. You love your son more than anything-no, or you could not have ripped his world apart. You are totally transparent, no-you might have admitted infidelity but you are not transparent. You want your H back, bull. I don't mean to beat you up, but you seem far more interest in your own "transformation" than healing the pain of others.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

She banged Om even after seeing the pain of her husband to test the waters. She find it not that much enjoyable (May be he was only learning from his teacher something other than music)

She realised OM is not that good in bed and wont be a good provider. Run back to her husband (plan B) without any guilt.
Lied, lied, lied and put him in more pain.

Now when he filed for D, she become the angel wife every man dreams of. aha........

So if you get a fourth chance(?), you will do everything for another few months or a year then you will go back to the old wife who needs to sleep with her student kid and he has to file for D so you be back on track to become the angel wife again.

Second chance is a gift form BS, considering many things like children, history shared, love etc. You got a second and third chance. you used that gift to wipe your A4S.


Let him go, don't manipulate him back into the marriage he don't wanted.If you weren't caught, you may have been still banging OM on your husbands back with the hope he will become better by having more experience.


----------



## alte Dame

After having stayed with this thread from its first posting, there are several observations I have:

- Mrs. Matt was probably the aggressor with the young student.

- She has done this before.

- She planned to sleep with OM well in advance of the weekend in which she confesses she did.

- She asked her friends to disappear to give her alone-time with the OM.

- The sex was just fine with OM, but she says now it wasn't because she got busted & doesn't want to admit anything to her H.

- She didn't plan to quit, but had to when H found out.

- She tells herself that she has transcendent experiences because she's too wrapped up in herself to see that she's just an older-woman conquest for a young guy.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

There is no good way to respond to commentary regarding sex with OM. If it was good, there's no reason for me to not still be seeking that, if it was bad, then I'm only trying to make amends because I didn't orgasm. Matt and I have discussed the experience in detail. He knows what I mean when we talk about the transformative experience of our own lovemaking. And yes, it is possible for us to live like roommates and still have that kind of sexual connection. The sex wasn't frequent enough, especially for Matt, but it was always emotionally connected. One of the issues is that I didn't foster that connection outside of bed. We didn't talk about anything real, I didn't share myself with him. 

The "relationship" with the OM ended by mutual agreement the night we had sex. I understand the general disbelief regarding the evolution of this situation, and get why many people think that couldn't be the case.

I don't feel I am trying to manipulate Matt back into a marriage with me. I came here to post and find feedback on a situation that no one I know in person ever discusses, regardless of whether it happened or not. I am not asking Matt to give me another chance. But as we continue to interact and co-parent and proceed toward divorce, I am trying to not be the selfish person that I was.


----------



## the guy

I commend you. so often I read about the broken wayward going off the deep end and actually acting worse... even more vandictive cuz the betrayed is choosing there self respect over the waywards entitlement.

So often the wayward stops thinking of there family...I gues for some waywards its easier to justify there actions by continuing to increase the drama in a attempt to solidify the fact the the marrriage was that bad and the wayward is justified.


Again I comment you for sticking around and facing this mess you made and focusing on the family thru this painful transition.


----------



## Shaggy

On living arrangements. 

You son deserves to stay in his home.

Since you ended the family, it is your responsibility to do whatever it takes to keep him there even if your own person situation is terrible.

What I mean is this: Your husband and son must continue living where they are now. Yes, it takes your income to pay for it. That's why you must continue to pay your current share and you still get to leave and move out.

You get to live on what little you have left over after you've fulfilled each month your responsibilities to them.

Yes it's going to hard and unpleasant. Welcome to the world of most divorced dads. This is called a harsh consequence of your deliberately made choices to betray and end your family.

Maybe you can live with your happy band of students that helped enable your affair? After all students live cheap, and you already know that bunch won' t get in the way of your social activities.


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## rrrbbbttt

"Not to be the selfish person I was" 

Sign a document which grants full custody to your husband when you divorce. Also include the payment of child support from you.


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## rrrbbbttt

Shaggy said it better.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Shaggy said:


> On living arrangements.
> 
> You son deserves to stay in his home.
> 
> Since you ended the family, it is your responsibility to do whatever it takes to keep him there even if your own person situation is terrible.
> 
> What I mean is this: Your husband and son must continue living where they are now. Yes, it takes your income to pay for it. That's why you must continue to pay your current share and you still get to leave and move out.
> 
> You get to live on what little you have left over after you've fulfilled each month your responsibilities to them.
> 
> Yes it's going to hard and unpleasant. Welcome to the world of most divorced dads. This is called a harsh consequence of your deliberately made choices to betray and end your family.
> 
> Maybe you can live with your happy band of students that helped enable your affair? After all students live cheap, and you already know that bunch won' t get in the way of your social activities.



I have every intention of fulfilling my obligations to my husband and son in this circumstance, financial and otherwise. Matt and I have discussed my moving out, but haven't settled on any details. I have offered Matt full custody, if he wants it. I am not being combative in any way regarding this dissolution. I certainly understand the importance of child support and have no intention of ever making this situation more difficult to endure than it already is. We are adults who have spent many years building a life together. I have destroyed and disrespected that with my actions. But there is no reason for me to continue that destruction by creating a caustic divorce.


----------



## Summer4744

Mrs mathias. So what you are saying is that if the other man made you O several times you would still be seeing him?

Let me ask a question. If you were still seeing him and were never caught, how long would you have kept this up? Would you have had an affair for 5 years? Would you have seen other men?


----------



## Hicks

On child custody and support, what you have to do is what is best for your child and not for yourself. That is an action you can take to prove you are sincere about living as a non selfish person. What is best for your child? Staying at home with Dad as the primary caregiver, and you providing child support, and moving out in the event of separation or divorce. No one would argue that if it were Dad who cheated....Mom's don't have a birthright to keep custody.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Okay, you said you have no intention of causing a problem, an attorney can draft the proper document which details all these provisions today, get it done, sign it have it properly witnessed, notarized and give it to your husband.

What people say and what people do are two different things. " I promise to love, honor and cherish, in sickness and in health" Remember that.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Summer4744 said:


> Mrs mathias. So what you are saying is that if the other man made you O several times you would still be seeing him?
> 
> That is very clearly not what I have said. I sought an emotional connection, something more than just physical exchange. Hindsight is an amazingly clear viewpoint, but the fact is, i felt divided in my heart, lost, and looking for answers about why I felt this way. It was delusional, and self-absorbed, but all the logic in the world couldn't overcome my emotional instability. I had every opportunity to find other ways to handle that instability (MC, IC, talking to Matt) but I didn't.
> 
> Let me ask a question. If you were still seeing him and were never caught, how long would you have kept this up? Would you have had an affair for 5 years? Would you have seen other men?


I had stopped seeing him prior to being caught. Other men are not a factor in this situation. I allowed an emotional connection to grow between myself and someone who was not my husband. This was ultimately not about sleeping around or having sex with someone new. Yes, the affair become physical. But I was looking for the answer to an emotional question.


----------



## Kasler

Mrs_Mathias said:


> *I had stopped seeing him prior to being caught.* Other men are not a factor in this situation. I allowed an emotional connection to grow between myself and someone who was not my husband. This was ultimately not about sleeping around or having sex with someone new. Yes, the affair become physical. But I was looking for the answer to an emotional question.


Don't pat yourself on the back for this. 

The only reason you stopped sleeping with him is because he was a dud in the sack.

And "Looking for an answer to an emotional question" is a pretty way to say being completely totally selfish and adulterous in betraying my husband. 

Matt isn't gonna want to hear this crap or your flimsy rationalizations. If he would even consider R, you need to knock this sh!t off and start calling it what it is.

This utter selfishness and BS rationalizations have to go.


----------



## aug

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I have every intention of fulfilling my obligations to my husband and son in this circumstance, financial and otherwise. Matt and I have discussed my moving out, but haven't settled on any details. I have offered Matt full custody, if he wants it. I am not being combative in any way regarding this dissolution. I certainly understand the importance of child support and have no intention of ever making this situation more difficult to endure than it already is. We are adults who have spent many years building a life together. I have destroyed and disrespected that with my actions. But there is no reason for me to continue that destruction by creating a caustic divorce.


ok


----------



## Shaggy

Mrs_Mathias said:


> . Yes, the affair become physical. But I was looking for the answer to an emotional question.


This really sets me off. It makes it all seem so noble and mature instead of calling it what it was:

You chose to betray your husband for the attention of another man.

Cheating isn't some journey of emotional self awareness. It is you having an attraction to another man and you choosing to act on it.

There isn't any freaking this as soul mates etc. That's just clap trap people say to justify their choices to betray and cheat.

Attraction is very much about biology and there are thousands upon thousands of people out there you will be attracted to. If there was only ONE person out there then in the population of 6.5 billion people on this planet, your chance of ever meeting your soul mate would be 1 in 6.5 Billion. And it would never ever ever happen. 

What we do however is make a choice to pledge our love and faithfulness to the one we marry. The one out of all those other valid people we could be attracted to. We make that choice and we live by it.

We choose not to pursue emotional relationship with other potential partners. We choose to make choices that help our partner and help grow the marriage.

We choose to never start the walk down the path of becoming a cheater.

So what you did wasn't some noble looking for an answer to an emotional question. What you did was to choose to betray your husband, so that you could pursue an attraction with this kid.

---

My advice is that you need to really STOP romanticizing what you selfishly chose to do. 

Until you realize that what you did wasn't rooted in some emotional mystical stuff and was instead just you making selfish horrible choices , you will never be able to actually feel responsibility or remorse because you will always deep down believe that it really wasn't anything you could have prevented. That you were locked into your actions, and therefor unaccountable for them. 

I haven't read anywhere of you breaking down and just collapsing with remorse and the full weight of your actions. You haven't gone to bed and found yourself unable to sleep for night upon night because you are so distraught.

I think you're able to hold it together as well as you are because you haven't yet really given up the fantasy that this was some kind of destined magic that you just had to taste.

And that's why you kept going back for more without guilt, and why your posts while they have an air of acceptance and even defeat to them, do not have remorse.


----------



## Racer

I do want to touch on something you also said a few pages back...


Mrs_Mathias said:


> Yes, I was not thinking of my son or Matt in the least, and simply trying to find an end to my own confusion..


Actually, you were. You were actively thinking about them, and the OM’s girlfriend. Hence the deception. I will place money that each and every time before you made contact, you thought about the excuse or story you’d tell your husband to ‘account’ for your time and whereabouts. You thought about the methods that reduced your risk of getting caught. You thought about the ramifications if you were to be found out, and decided that Matt wouldn’t leave you (otherwise you would not have confessed). 

I do doubt though you really understood the extent of the consequences and damage. Why? Because you appear to be a ‘controlling’ type person. Something in your head tells you that you can control this or that in other people. Like your excuse for starting it back up with the OM... Did you not think somehow you could control how he feels about himself and the tatters you left him in? And now, it seems like you have an idea that somehow if you give Matt space and be a good girl, that he’ll have to come back to you? You are using your knowledge to do damage control... I do feel sorry for you when you ultimately find out the only person you can control is yourself and others will do whatever they want. The only reason thus far they have played along with you is that what they wanted ‘aligned’ with your wants. OM wanted in your pants. BH wanted you as his wife. Things may have changed in what they want now.


----------



## WyshIknew

Do you know something that strikes me as so sad in all this.

You are doing everything right by your husband at the moment, you are a model person, you could not be acting any better after shattering your family.

Are you not asking yourself the question, why oh why oh why could I not be like this before?


----------



## Summer4744

Mrs mathias. You seem to have been pursuing a genuine connection with the other man. Mentoring him, giving him a place to stay, dropping off books.

From your husbands thread the other man said "it could have been better" after he had sex with you. Does this not show how incredibly nieve you were being.

If it were just sex I could understand an A. But for an older woman to try and make an emotional connection with her younger student who is an artist seems laughable to me. 

What did you think would happen? You two would click and he would whisk you away to another life? Younger artistic type of guys usually have many women pursuing them. Did you really think he was going to build a relationship with an older career oriented woman when he could have a younger girl who could give him more attention?


----------



## Numbersixxx

Kallan Pavithran said:


> She banged Om even after seeing the pain of her husband to test the waters. She find it not that much enjoyable (May be he was only learning from his teacher something other than music)
> 
> She realised OM is not that good in bed and wont be a good provider. Run back to her husband (plan B) without any guilt.
> Lied, lied, lied and put him in more pain.
> 
> Now when he filed for D, she become the angel wife every man dreams of. aha........
> 
> So if you get a fourth chance(?), you will do everything for another few months or a year then you will go back to the old wife who needs to sleep with her student kid and he has to file for D so you be back on track to become the angel wife again.
> 
> Second chance is a gift form BS, considering many things like children, history shared, love etc. You got a second and third chance. you used that gift to wipe your A4S.
> 
> 
> Let him go, don't manipulate him back into the marriage he don't wanted.If you weren't caught, you may have been still banging OM on your husbands back with the hope he will become better by having more experience.


I agree with you. She demonstrated to have no ethics or morals, either as a mother, wife or a teacher. 

I also think there is much more to the story that she is not telling. “_The OM had entered my life as one of my students three and a half years ago. Also from the day I met him, I felt a connection…_”. To me this at least suggests that the affair started much earlier.

If he would give her another chance, he would be playing Russian roulette with very high chance to blow his brains out. Here I am starching a little, but to me it is not unimaginable that her next boy-toy could be a couple of years younger than the previous one (maybe one of her sons friends when they are teenagers). Than suddenly we would have statutory rape, the police involved and also the whole media circus. Imagine the consequences for her child and husband. Yes, I am speculating but to me this scenario is not that far fetched.


----------



## Foghorn

Mrs M., 

I applaud your fortitude in coming back to this group for more opinions, when many of them are heated and very very critical. I was cheated on too like so many of the posters here. But I can see that you wish things were different. It is actually astonishingly honest to say, "If I had a better sexual experience with OM, I don't know what I would have done." Again, I hear addiction talking. It's almost like you said, "If I had gotten really high off that stuff, I can't guarantee I wouldn't have used it again." Of course not. That's why they call it addiction.

Still, your rational daytime mind knows that was a bad decision and has left great destruction in it's wake. Your child will not benefit from a broken, miserable, bitter, self-hating woman. Your child will benefit from a mother who made herself into a better person because of previous horrible decisions and bad experiences. Your soon-to-be-ex-husband will be able to create a more peaceful and consistent life for your child with such a reasonable person. It is a decent way to make amends. It will help you live with yourself. 

I don't think full custody is the answer. Children need their mother and their father in their life. Barring felony or child molestation, both parents should be in a child's life. Fix yourself and attend to your own internal landscape. Then ask, thoughtfully, for joint custody. I also agree with letting your child stay in their home with their father. But don't cut yourself out of the child's life. That may feel like punishing yourself, but it really punishes your child.

Hold your head up. One little bit better today than yesterday. Best of luck.

-FH


----------



## rrrbbbttt

WyshIknew said:


> Do you know something that strikes me as so sad in all this.
> 
> You are doing everything right by your husband at the moment, you are a model person, you could not be acting any better after shattering your family.
> 
> Are you not asking yourself the question, why oh why oh why could I not be like this before?


Sorry, don't agree. Do not see any remorse in the posts see only a sense of entitlement and no desire to do the heavy lifting by action only by words.

Agree with others if the OM had tripped her trigger, or if he wasn't a Wham Bam thank you teacher person she would not be here.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Broken at 20 said:


> I think I finally get you...
> 
> You are having to decide between your two passions.
> 
> Your job and career
> 
> Or
> 
> Your husband and your family.
> 
> 
> Here is some advice:
> If it takes you longer than 5 seconds to say your husband and child, then divorce and let your husband have the favorable settlement, and don't push for custody.
> Because you can't give him the love he deserves, and the love your child needs because you are too immersed in your job.


Consider whether you love your husband, or you love what he does for you. Based on your posts, I see that you love what he does for you. Perhaps having him around helps you check off the boxes of what a perfect life is supposed to have:

Good husband - check
Nice house to go home to - check
Young child - check
Someone to take care of things while you pursue your carreer - check

But your actions speak volumes about how much you actually like him. Even putting aside your horrible behavior surround your affair, you admit to taking on more and more work projects at the expense of your husband. He is given more hosue work to do, while you active take on tasks that take you away from him. I have seen little guilt about your neglecting him prior to the affair. Any actions look to be driven to mollify him so that you can continue to do what you actually love, which is your work. 

In short, your actions tell others that you don't particularly like to be around your husband. At best, he is fourth (and too often probably not even that), with you, your work and (hopefully) your child coming before him. There is plenty of evidence that you like what he does for you, and almost none that you love him.

Consider whether you want to reconcile because you feel guilty and think it is the right thing to do, or whether it is because you honestly love him, the person.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

WyshIknew said:


> Do you know something that strikes me as so sad in all this.
> 
> You are doing everything right by your husband at the moment, you are a model person, you could not be acting any better after shattering your family.
> 
> Are you not asking yourself the question, why oh why oh why could I not be like this before?


Every hour of every day. I cannot for the life of me fathom how/why I couldn't exhibit more discipline, commitment, dedication, basic respect before I had completely laid waste to everything. I will be working on that in my next IC session.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Tall Average Guy said:


> Consider whether you love your husband, or you love what he does for you. Based on your posts, I see that you love what he does for you. Perhaps having him around helps you check off the boxes of what a perfect life is supposed to have:
> 
> Good husband - check
> Nice house to go home to - check
> Young child - check
> Someone to take care of things while you pursue your carreer - check
> 
> But your actions speak volumes about how much you actually like him. Even putting aside your horrible behavior surround your affair, you admit to taking on more and more work projects at the expense of your husband. He is given more hosue work to do, while you active take on tasks that take you away from him. I have seen little guilt about your neglecting him prior to the affair. Any actions look to be driven to mollify him so that you can continue to do what you actually love, which is your work.
> 
> I absolutely regret neglecting him before the affair. I regret creating an environment where we didn't interact as people who had a genuine interest and love for each other. I know I marginalized and mistreated him, but I didn't see it pre-affair. I am not here, nor am I at home trying to "mollify" him. It can't be done. I don't want him "mollified". I want him to be happy and engaged/connected in his relationships. I want him to be seen and loved for the person, not the housework/parenting. I have ignored the person, but I do genuinely like him.
> 
> In short, your actions tell others that you don't particularly like to be around your husband. At best, he is fourth (and too often probably not even that), with you, your work and (hopefully) your child coming before him. There is plenty of evidence that you like what he does for you, and almost none that you love him.
> 
> Consider whether you want to reconcile because you feel guilty and think it is the right thing to do, or whether it is because you honestly love him, the person.


----------



## C-man

The lying and deception which surrounds an affair reveals the basic character flaw of the person doing the betraying. The more and more I read on this forum, the more the pattern emerges. Wish I had read this forum 3 years ago. 

No matter how much you rationalize the betrayal, it really comes down to a basic dishonesty and an over-riding selfishness. Narcissism really. 

There's no real way to "make up" for this. You can only try to re-invent an honest, less selfish version of yourself. I think that's why very few reconciliations are successful - because of the basic human nature of resisting change and believing yourself against all evidence (which usually prevents the re-invention of an honest version of a cheating spouse). It's the same reason betrayed spouses get betrayed. Most of the time - all the danger signals were there, but you resist the evidence because of your belief system. I know I did this for years with my unfaithful STBXW.

Good luck with the R, but remember, if you're doing it just because you want to keep the family together, or repair your BS's hurt/pain, it's probably destined to fail. You have to change because YOU want to change.


----------



## Numbersixxx

Summer4744 said:


> Mrs mathias. You seem to have been pursuing a genuine connection with the other man. Mentoring him, giving him a place to stay, dropping off books.
> 
> From your husbands thread the other man said "it could have been better" after he had sex with you. Does this not show how incredibly nieve you were being.
> 
> If it were just sex I could understand an A. But for an older woman to try and make an emotional connection with her younger student who is an artist seems laughable to me.
> 
> What did you think would happen? You two would click and he would whisk you away to another life? Younger artistic type of guys usually have many women pursuing them. Did you really think he was going to build a relationship with an older career oriented woman when he could have a younger girl who could give him more attention?


Honestly, I think her real reason is she just wanted to be a cougar like all those “modern” women. Hers are just rationalizations after the whole thing blow up in her face.


----------



## warlock07

> This was ultimately not about sleeping around or having sex with someone new.


It absolutely was..Don't you still understand ? Why is your H divorcing you ? Why did heforgive you when it was an EA ?

Don't try to attach higher meaning or motives to such a selfish act...Stop thinking that your infidelity is a special case. You absolutely are as regular as they come. You kissed. You skyped. You sexted and you had sex.. And ended it immediately after the act..You got caught up in the high of a new relationship like most cheaters do..


----------



## Wolfman1968

Shaggy said:


> This really sets me off. It makes it all seem so noble and mature instead of calling it what it was:
> 
> You chose to betray your husband for the attention of another man.
> 
> Cheating isn't some journey of emotional self awareness. It is you having an attraction to another man and you choosing to act on it.
> 
> There isn't any freaking this as soul mates etc. That's just clap trap people say to justify their choices to betray and cheat.
> 
> Attraction is very much about biology and there are thousands upon thousands of people out there you will be attracted to. If there was only ONE person out there then in the population of 6.5 billion people on this planet, your chance of ever meeting your soul mate would be 1 in 6.5 Billion. And it would never ever ever happen.
> 
> What we do however is make a choice to pledge our love and faithfulness to the one we marry. The one out of all those other valid people we could be attracted to. We make that choice and we live by it.
> 
> We choose not to pursue emotional relationship with other potential partners. We choose to make choices that help our partner and help grow the marriage.
> 
> We choose to never start the walk down the path of becoming a cheater.
> 
> So what you did wasn't some noble looking for an answer to an emotional question. What you did was to choose to betray your husband, so that you could pursue an attraction with this kid.


I cannot agree more.

Mrs.Matt, if you have seen any of the other threads where cheaters are posting, you may notice something different about yours; the word SELFISH pops up here more than any other thread I have ever seen. Even compared to other cheaters.

Shaggy is right. There is no such thing as a magical love you are destined to find. Maybe it's your artistic background that predisposes you toward this mindset. But that kind of mindset is what led you to cheat--to find out if there was someone else for whom you were destined. Only by finding he was a dud in the sack was your illusion dispelled. But that mindset makes you vulnerable for future cheating should some new magic guy come along.

We CHOOSE our mates out of a selection of thousands or even millions of potential choices with whom we would be potentially equally happy. Once we make that choice, we stick with it because we are committed to something bigger--the marriage, the family and the life together which supercedes our individuality.

Should the marriage become abusive or intolerable, then of course one should divorce and move on. But not cheat. In fact, by going back to Dr.Mathias as a plan B once the OM was a dud in the sack shows that the marriage WASN'T intolerable. It is perfectly fine, you were just on the prowl for something better.

THIS is why everyone calls you selfish; but I almost prefer narcissistic or solipsistic, which may be more accurate. Your life is a stage-play that you are directing for your own acclaim. If there is a new potential cast member who could be a star, you gave him an audition with the intent of discarding the former one (your husband).

Your problem isn't your "dedication to your work", like you're a workaholic businessman who doesn't devote enough time to home. It's deeper than that. The work is just a tool. Your pathology is that you self-centeredly crave acclaim so much--through your work, through OM's attention, etc.--that you sacrifice others in pursuit of your own ends.

The ethereal magic relationship you crave to satisfy your own narcissism doesn't exit. We all MAKE the magic in our own relationships. However, you seem to lack the personality traits necessary to sacrifice for the bigger good, unless it brings you personal acclaim and status (such as you receive at work).

Can Narcissists ever become self-aware and change from being a Narcissist? I really don't know. Maybe not. However, unless it does occur, I don't think you are fit to be in a committed relationship with anyone.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Shaggy said:


> This really sets me off. It makes it all seem so noble and mature instead of calling it what it was:
> 
> You chose to betray your husband for the attention of another man.
> 
> Cheating isn't some journey of emotional self awareness. It is you having an attraction to another man and you choosing to act on it.
> 
> There isn't any freaking this as soul mates etc. That's just clap trap people say to justify their choices to betray and cheat.
> 
> Attraction is very much about biology and there are thousands upon thousands of people out there you will be attracted to. If there was only ONE person out there then in the population of 6.5 billion people on this planet, your chance of ever meeting your soul mate would be 1 in 6.5 Billion. And it would never ever ever happen.
> 
> What we do however is make a choice to pledge our love and faithfulness to the one we marry. The one out of all those other valid people we could be attracted to. We make that choice and we live by it.
> 
> We choose not to pursue emotional relationship with other potential partners. We choose to make choices that help our partner and help grow the marriage.
> 
> We choose to never start the walk down the path of becoming a cheater.
> 
> So what you did wasn't some noble looking for an answer to an emotional question. What you did was to choose to betray your husband, so that you could pursue an attraction with this kid.
> 
> ---
> 
> My advice is that you need to really STOP romanticizing what you selfishly chose to do.
> 
> Until you realize that what you did wasn't rooted in some emotional mystical stuff and was instead just you making selfish horrible choices , you will never be able to actually feel responsibility or remorse because you will always deep down believe that it really wasn't anything you could have prevented. That you were locked into your actions, and therefor unaccountable for them.
> 
> I haven't read anywhere of you breaking down and just collapsing with remorse and the full weight of your actions. You haven't gone to bed and found yourself unable to sleep for night upon night because you are so distraught.
> 
> I think you're able to hold it together as well as you are because you haven't yet really given up the fantasy that this was some kind of destined magic that you just had to taste.
> 
> And that's why you kept going back for more without guilt, and why your posts while they have an air of acceptance and even defeat to them, do not have remorse.


There is nothing "noble" about this awful situation. I did not mean to convey that in any way. Matt's IC said that love was an emotion and commitment was a choice, and yes, I chose to not honor that commitment. It is not something that I can change. My descriptions of past events are from the perspective that I was thinking/feeling at the time. I am trying to be clear about this experience, before, during and after.

There is nothing romantic in my affair. However, I didn't see that while it was happening. I am not justifying, rationalizing, or anything else. I'm simply trying to document.

Regarding my breaking down, not sleeping, etc... I'm not sure in what context you all think I should be posting that? You can say what you like about weighing my remorse, etc., but the fact is, if I were posting about how awful I feel, how sick I am, how I haven't eaten anything since Saturday afternoon and have lost 6 pounds in 3 days, you would have no problems telling me it is the least that I deserve and I should be focusing instead on what Matt is feeling and experiencing.

I had every opportunity to prevent this situation. There are countless times over the last 6 months that I could have said no, should have said no. But I didn't. I have to accept that. I am wholly responsible. But whether you or anyone else wants to believe it of cheating spouses, sometimes it is not about deliberately trying to harm the BS. What I did was wrong, destructive, shattered my husband's life and self-respect. But I didn't cheat to be vindictive. I cheated because I was selfish. I valued my own emotions and confusion over his. Period.


----------



## Acabado

May I ask what are your other emotional conexions beyond this group of former students? Have you any friends who are married, couples, same age friends?

I think there's an element of inmaturity which seems to permeate everything, since the way you believe long lasting relationships/marriage work (emotions, conexions, feelings but no practicing, comitment, day to day watering the grass) to the circle of people who are around you. Obviously your profession helps this, I've seen it many times with teachers.

Another thougth. Along with you call workaholism I believe you love the admiration from this group of former students. It's not your work what consume you emotional energy, looks like craving adoration. Marriage is not a source of continued adoration. As you claims to feel inadecuate as a wife and mom, which made you dive even more into work maybe it's partiatlly because of this.

I know we are piling up, making asumptions and demads. Not my intention. I think after this nightmate there are things about yourself you must adress, regardlss the outcome.

Do you know what. I believe your husband loves you so much that you can keep him, if you make some internal changes. Nothing will happen overnight. Be alone with your thoughs, let someone guide you, see the big picture, decide who you are, what you want in life and then fight for it with no rest.

I believe you are still so in shock after the latest developments you still didn't had the "WTF I was thinking" moment you so much need. The way you went subtly twards this path, then the lies, deceit, manipulation, the fact OM is who he is... all in light of the past years, the big picture of the marriage, the unrealistic vision of love and commitment. I hope you can see the light very soon.


----------



## The Middleman

Wolfman1968 said:


> I cannot agree more.
> 
> Mrs.Matt, if you have seen any of the other threads where cheaters are posting, you may notice something different about yours; the word SELFISH pops up here more than any other thread I have ever seen. Even compared to other cheaters.


Guys: Why so harsh to Mrs.Matt (not that she doesn't deserve it) when someone else on another thread (ChangingMe) who is even more manipulative, deceitful, selfish, narcissistic than MrsMatt, and committed an even worse act of adultery (IMO) is being treated to a love fest. Why the double standard?


----------



## Wolfman1968

Foghorn said:


> Mrs M.,
> I don't think full custody is the answer. Children need their mother and their father in their life. Barring felony or child molestation, both parents should be in a child's life. Fix yourself and attend to your own internal landscape. Then ask, thoughtfully, for joint custody. I also agree with letting your child stay in their home with their father. But don't cut yourself out of the child's life. That may feel like punishing yourself, but it really punishes your child.
> -FH


I think we need to be clear on terminology here. I don't think Full Custody means No Contact with the other parent. I think it is being used here in the meaning of Primary Custody, which is what traditionally (and sadly, because of bias, still occurs) happened--the mother would get the Primary Custody and the father sees the child two weekends a month. (As opposed to equal 50/50 time). 

There is no doubt in my mind that if the genders were reversed, the primary caretaker (who in a reversed case would be the mother) would be given Primary Custody. However, since the primary caretaker in this case is a father, it's open to doubt, or at least open to the mother's will. And that's just wrong, but sadly all too common.


----------



## Wolfman1968

The Middleman said:


> Guys: Why so harsh to Mrs.Matt (not that she doesn't deserve it) when someone else on another thread who is even more manipulative, deceitful, selfish, narcissistic than MrsMatt, and committed a even worse act adultery (IMO) is being treated to a love fest. Why the double standard?


Haven't seen that other thread. (Or if I have, I didn't recognize it as worse).

Hence, no double standard.


----------



## kenmoore14217

I have offered Matt full custody, if he wants it.


----------



## The Middleman

Wolfman1968 said:


> Haven't seen that other thread. (Or if I have, I didn't recognize it as worse).
> 
> Hence, no double standard.


Didn't mean to pick on you necessarily (sorry about that) but many of the people trashing MrsMatt here are giving another cheating wife a totally undeserved love fest. It's DD's thread


----------



## Tall Average Guy

> I absolutely regret neglecting him before the affair. I regret creating an environment where we didn't interact as people who had a genuine interest and love for each other. I know I marginalized and mistreated him, but I didn't see it pre-affair. I am not here, nor am I at home trying to "mollify" him. It can't be done. I don't want him "mollified". I want him to be happy and engaged/connected in his relationships. I want him to be seen and loved for the person, not the housework/parenting. I have ignored the person, but I do genuinely like him.


You say this, but unfortunately your actions have never said it. as noted before, your husband was last on your list of priorities throughout your marriage. My point about mollifying him was with respect to your actions prior to your affair. He complained, you did what you need to get him happy for a bit then went back to the same behaviors. You took on more and more work. 

My job requires some awful hours at times. It is a real struggle for me to balance work and my home life. But I have turn down tasks and put my foot down at times becasue I genuinely like my wife and want to spend time with her. I need to show her that I will put her first sometimes.

Honest question - prior to all this hitting the fan, when was the last time you put your husband first in your life?


----------



## Hicks

You have to be truthful with yourself. You did this becuase it felt good. It felt good to connect with another man. It felt good to get validation from your toxic friends. It gave you a rush to betray your husband. The sex you had was your way of trying to extend the feelings you were getting outside of sex. What you are looking for an answer to is why did you turn to this to make yourself feel good?

Most people turn to their spouses for those feelings. That's what sustains marriages and families. IF a spouse does not provide you with good feelings, it could be that he is a bad husband and is not meeting your needs and therefore you have to turn somewhere else. Or, it could be that you have some kind of character flaw that cuases you to seek out these feelings in an inappropriate way... Or a combination of both. That's what you have to refelct on. The most common scenario is that you were not getting your needs met within your marriage and you sought to get them somewhere else instead of communicating what your needs are to your husband.


----------



## Racer

Mrs_Mathias said:


> Regarding my breaking down, not sleeping, etc... I'm not sure in what context you all think I should be posting that? You can say what you like about weighing my remorse, etc., but the fact is, if I were posting about how awful I feel, how sick I am, how I haven't eaten anything since Saturday afternoon and have lost 6 pounds in 3 days, you would have no problems telling me it is the least that I deserve and I should be focusing instead on what Matt is feeling and experiencing..


Something you need to watch for as my WW did the same sort of stuff including suicidal thoughts. It is horrible to experience I’m sure. Yet watch out for your default coping mechanism for handling trauma.

With my wife, that was to escape from the situation and absolve herself of “why” she felt all this. She blamed me for “making her feel that way” because I wouldn't rugsweep and let it be buried. This unleashed itself in a variety of quite negative stuff. Even more damage and destruction was created that just fed the monster. Just pay attention to yourself. People handle very deep emotions differently and only you know how you’ve dealt with them in the past. That’s probably something to discuss with your IC as well and maybe he can help you find ‘healthy’ ways to deal and cope.


----------



## alte Dame

The Middleman said:


> Guys: Why so harsh to Mrs.Matt (not that she doesn't deserve it) when someone else on another thread who is even more manipulative, deceitful, selfish, narcissistic than MrsMatt, and committed an even worse act of adultery (IMO) is being treated to a love fest. Why the double standard?


Absolutely agree. I picked up on this contrast immediately.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Mrs. Mathias: I truly feel sorry for the situation that you and your husband are in today due to your cheating. I give you props for continuing to post in this thread despite many posters coming at you hard. We know what you did was pretty bad, and that you made some horrible decisions. 

Too many of you are responding in this thread with too much rancor. You can easily convey your points without sugar coating anything and still be respectful. The fact that she chose to walk into the lions den should show at a minimum that she is sorry for what she has done and that she does love her husband. 

What is the purpose of the CWI forum on TAM? Is the purpose to attack the unsympathetic characters in order to allow the BS posters an opportunity to feel a moment of satisfaction by unloading on someone, or is the purpose to help out everyone who comes into this forum seeking advice? I think it's supposed to be the latter.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

alte Dame said:


> Absolutely agree. I picked up on this contrast immediately.


Hard to say. Maybe she does not come across as a sympathetic character unlike some of the other WS's. I think part of the issue is that she seems more career focused than her husband - which is perceived to be a role reversal in the marriage in a general sense - and this hits too close to home for many people.


----------



## SadSamIAm

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may:

- React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
- Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
- Have excessive feelings of self-importance
- Exaggerate achievements and talents
- Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
- Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
- Need constant attention and admiration
- Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy
- Have obsessive self-interest
- Pursue mainly selfish goals

I feel very sorry for Matt and his son.


----------



## The Middleman

alte Dame said:


> Absolutely agree. I picked up on this contrast immediately.





Plan 9 from OS said:


> Hard to say. Maybe she does not come across as a sympathetic character unlike some of the other WS's. I think part of the issue is that she seems more career focused than her husband - which is perceived to be a role reversal in the marriage in a general sense - and this hits too close to home for many people.


My theory on why this happened is here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61098-third-strike-9.html#post1224020


----------



## alte Dame

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Mrs. Mathias: I truly feel sorry for the situation that you and your husband are in today due to your cheating. I give you props for continuing to post in this thread despite many posters coming at you hard. We know what you did was pretty bad, and that you made some horrible decisions.
> 
> Too many of you are responding in this thread with too much rancor. You can easily convey your points without sugar coating anything and still be respectful. The fact that she chose to walk into the lions den should show at a minimum that she is sorry for what she has done and that she does love her husband.
> 
> What is the purpose of the CWI forum on TAM? Is the purpose to attack the unsympathetic characters in order to allow the BS posters an opportunity to feel a moment of satisfaction by unloading on someone, or is the purpose to help out everyone who comes into this forum seeking advice? I think it's supposed to be the latter.


I think it's almost impossible to easily discern an agenda on the part of the people posting their problems. Usually the anonymity of the OP allows a degree of honesty that would be hard otherwise. Sometimes, though, especially when both partners are on the forum, there can be other agendas at work & it's difficult as a reader to really tell whether a poster is sincere in the expression of his/her feelings.

In this thread, I've questioned throughout Mrs. Matt's genuineness. Of course, I could be wrong. Who will ever really know? But, I do not feel from the language she is using, to the thoughts expressed, to the description of the various scenarios that this is all sincere. At best, to me, she suffers from magical thinking, both in her motivations for her A & in her description of the events here.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Lets see.

Quit job, No
Sent NC letter, No
Informed Work, No
Informed Parents, No
Got document giving primary custody to Matt and giving child support from Attorney, No
Given full exposure of Emails, Computer, etc to Matt. No
Taken a Polygraph, No
Doing more of the chores around the house, Don't know
Taking on more of the Child Rearing, Don't know
Spending more time with Matt and the Child, Doesn't Appear So
Stating what Matt's IC said in words that make you look better. Check

Yes, the R is going well.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Too many of you are responding in this thread with too much rancor. You can easily convey your points without sugar coating anything and still be respectful. The fact that she chose to walk into the lions den should show at a minimum that she is sorry for what she has done and that she does love her husband.
> 
> What is the purpose of the CWI forum on TAM? Is the purpose to attack the unsympathetic characters in order to allow the BS posters an opportunity to feel a moment of satisfaction by unloading on someone, or is the purpose to help out everyone who comes into this forum seeking advice? I think it's supposed to be the latter.


Well, of course, many of the posters are victims of cheating spouses themselves, so there's always going to be that factor.

I think in this particular thread, there is a feeling based on her posts (and that's all we really ever have to go on) that she just doesn't GET IT. I think the initial post with all its gobbledygook about some transcendental relationship and being so dedicated to her work rubs people the wrong way, and suggests that she just doesn't see that her problem is a basic self-centered approach to life. In that sense, the continued harshness is a reaction to a (preceived?) lack of understanding or resistence to accept this basic personality flaw of hers.

And, if I may say, it appears that for many posters, the fact that she decided to end it with the OM when the sex didn't rock her world is particularly galling; and this is made worse by her own confession that it would have been more difficult for her had the sex been good. That doesn't sound like enlightenment.


----------



## Speed

> Every hour of every day. I cannot for the life of me fathom how/why I couldn't exhibit more discipline, commitment, dedication, basic respect before I had completely laid waste to everything. I will be working on that in my next IC session.


Hell, I can answer that. You are selfish. You use these excuses and well thought out fantasies to explain your selfishness like there is more to it. Sorry to break it to you.. there isn't.

Your husband expressed to you how to fix the problems and you put yourself first every time.

You two need to part ways and allow him to find someone who can care for him as he deserves to be cared for.


----------



## alte Dame

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Hard to say. Maybe she does not come across as a sympathetic character unlike some of the other WS's. I think part of the issue is that she seems more career focused than her husband - which is perceived to be a role reversal in the marriage in a general sense - and this hits too close to home for many people.


This could be the case for some, but definitely not for me. I'm really reading a woman who is very functional but essentially deluded in her self-importance. Everything is seen through the lens of the self first.(For me, her language is very important in this regard.)

For her to be a real loving partner, she would have to address this and become the sort of person that can have real compassion for her spouse. This doesn't happen overnight & may never happen. For now, I think people are reacting to disabuse her of the self-oriented belief structure that seems to have been so integral to her until now. (And has caused her to hurt her H so immeasurably.)


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, of course, many of the posters are victims of cheating spouses themselves, so there's always going to be that factor.
> 
> I think in this particular thread, there is a feeling based on her posts (and that's all we really ever have to go on) that she just doesn't GET IT. I think the initial post with all its gobbledygook about some transcendental relationship and being so dedicated to her work rubs people the wrong way, and suggests that she just doesn't see that her problem is a basic self-centered approach to life. In that sense, the continued harshness is a reaction to a (preceived?) lack of understanding or resistence to accept this basic personality flaw of hers.
> 
> And, if I may say, it appears that for many posters, the fact that she decided to end it with the OM when the sex didn't rock her world is particularly galling; and this is made worse by her own confession that it would have been more difficult for her had the sex been good. That doesn't sound like enlightenment.


I'll admit that this is one of those threads that I haven't been reading every response to. No doubt the OP is not coming across as sympathetically as she should be. But the issue here is trying to convince her of what is going on and point out her hypocrisy without making her out to be a demon. Frankly, I think she has problems communicating her thoughts and feelings in a clear way. It's just a feeling, and I can't verify it.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

rrrbbbttt said:


> Lets see.
> 
> Quit job, No - Under contract until May... no way to pay breach of contract fee. Ready and willing to resign.
> Sent NC letter, No - Discussed with my husband. Willing to write it. He said there was no reason to attempt to re-establish contact to locate OM.
> Informed Work, No - Yes. Called and self disclosed to my superior on Sunday.
> Informed Parents, No - Yes, called and self disclosed full details to parents and sister on Sunday.
> Got document giving primary custody to Matt and giving child support from Attorney, No Willing to create this document. Working with Matt to decide what HE wants.
> Given full exposure of Emails, Computer, etc to Matt. No Yes. He has had full access since July.
> Taken a Polygraph, No Correct. I have not. I have no idea how/where to even go about something like that.
> Doing more of the chores around the house, Don't know Yes, I have since July.
> Taking on more of the Child Rearing, Don't know Yes, I believe I have done this as well. Attempted to schedule needed rehearsals etc. to overlap with naptime or past bedtime to maximize my time at home.
> Spending more time with Matt and the Child, Doesn't Appear So
> Stating what Matt's IC said in words that make you look better. Check
> 
> How does what I wrote possibly make me look better? That's an honest question. I feel like I am really trying to acknowledge my selfishness and total disregard for Matt. I guess it's not something that I can currently communicate well or fully grasp, since D-day #2 was Saturday night. I appreciate the people giving honest feedback, and I actually appreciate hearing/feeling the pain and lashing statements from other BS's. I knew coming here that this would be the primary environment I faced, and I need and want people to call me on my crap.
> 
> In addition to the list above, since Saturday I have called and apologized to my toxic friends for putting them in the middle of this situation. I have not pursued any further sympathy or contact with them. I have called and spoken to several friends and told them of the situation. I have continued to work, and leave the house as needed for my contractual obligations, but I have not alotted any additional time that was not absolutely necessary.
> 
> I think a lot of assumptions are currently being made about our situation because my posts have primarily dealt with the situation pre-D-Day #2. So there are certainly no grounds to show what I am doing currently. I will work on posting an update.
> 
> Yes, the R is going well.


----------



## Acabado

If there's someting I completely disagree from many here and in her husband thread is the custody discussion.
I don't care whether it's selfish or not. I believe OP's first priority should ne to adress her role as a mom, over her role as a wife (which she can't control now BTW). I believe their kid doesn't deserve less mom but exactly the opposite, more mom. As a matter of fact giving him the fill custody would be even more selfish in my book. How can be selflessness to renounce a part of your childs becuase the past? Don't get it. Never will-
Giving her husband the full custody is not the answer to the end of the marriage (if this is indeed the end, I'm not sure a bout it). Whatever the intention behind and putting myself into this child shoes the first thing OP must change and step out is to be a more involved mom, to fill back the gap her husband was forced to fill, instead of drifting away even more.


----------



## AnnieAsh

Hi Mrs. Mathias, there is TONS of supposition and hypothesizing on your thread. Do you have a concrete plan in place to show your husband that you are willing to change? Do you need advice on the actions that you can take to help him recover from this enormous blow? 

He will be irreparably altered by this. He will not be the same man; there is no way to get around that. What actions are you taking to help him right now? 

I'm a wayward wife, recovering with my husband from an intensely emotional affair. My thread is something like 100 pages, much too long to read. I was on the verge of turning my EA into a PA when I found this site. I had what I thought was an "amazing connection" with another man. 

If YOU focus on the om and the sex you had with him, you will stay mired in those thoughts. Om needs to be a nonentity to you now, a man who has helped you damage your wonderful husband. Reliving the affair over and over and providing salacious details to some of the posters will NOT HELP YOU. Answer your husband's questions HONESTLY no matter how much it shames you, but do not get bogged down in discussing it endlessly here. 

I would focus on posts concerning what you can do for your husband. You may end up divorced anyway, but you will become a better woman. Quitting your job and finding something more family friendly, spending time ALONE with your child and nurturing that relationship, cutting off toxic friends, making a list of boundaries that you implement concerning the opposite sex. All those are things you can do to SHOW you do not want to be the woman you have been. 

Hopefully, you will see my post amongst the others. Good luck to you. 

Annie


----------



## Ovid

I think the bashing is a result of her new agey approach to her A. It makes her look flakey and like the A was excused by her so she could find her true love etc...

Yes it is all very selfish. Try and find an A that isn't motivated by some level of hyper self love. It's good to try and get reality in focus for the WS but too much force will only be counter productive.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Why are you doing this?


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

AnnieAsh said:


> Hi Mrs. Mathias, there is TONS of supposition and hypothesizing on your thread. Do you have a concrete plan in place to show your husband that you are willing to change? Do you need advice on the actions that you can take to help him recover from this enormous blow?
> 
> That is exactly what I am looking for. So far the advice has been to leave him alone, to get out of his life, to leave my child. I understand him needing to be the one to choose how he lets me interact with him. I will wait for his cues and requests. But I am looking for ways to take the initiative - not directly with him, but just in life in general to show a change in me.
> 
> He will be irreparably altered by this. He will not be the same man; there is no way to get around that. What actions are you taking to help him right now?
> 
> I am letting him take the lead. I am answering questions, available for conversations, touching him and being with him if he desires it.
> 
> I'm a wayward wife, recovering with my husband from an intensely emotional affair. My thread is something like 100 pages, much too long to read. I was on the verge of turning my EA into a PA when I found this site. I had what I thought was an "amazing connection" with another man.
> 
> If YOU focus on the om and the sex you had with him, you will stay mired in those thoughts. Om needs to be a nonentity to you now, a man who has helped you damage your wonderful husband. Reliving the affair over and over and providing salacious details to some of the posters will NOT HELP YOU. Answer your husband's questions HONESTLY no matter how much it shames you, but do not get bogged down in discussing it endlessly here.
> 
> I would focus on posts concerning what you can do for your husband. You may end up divorced anyway, but you will become a better woman. Quitting your job and finding something more family friendly, spending time ALONE with your child and nurturing that relationship, cutting off toxic friends, making a list of boundaries that you implement concerning the opposite sex. All those are things you can do to SHOW you do not want to be the woman you have been.
> 
> Hopefully, you will see my post amongst the others. Good luck to you.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> Annie


----------



## TCSRedhead

I'm chiming in again - not that many of the posters previously will appreciate hearing this but I am also the guilty cheater in my marriage. 

Keep working on things in the marriage as if you will reconcile. Ultimately that decision will be his to make. Recognize that there was no real emotional connection - start focusing on that more now it will make it easier to reconnect with your husband. I genuinely felt there was 'something' but in all honesty, the OM was only after one thing and it wasn't my heart. That truth is evident in your affair and proven by how callously he talked about you when this all ended.

Put yourself in the other seat and allow yourself to see just how deeply you've wounded him. He trusted you (over and over) believing what you told him to be true. He supported your efforts to devote much of your time to your career. He and your son suffered by spending less time with you as a wife and mother. 

Then he finds out that after he found out about your emotional infidelity, that you intentionally sought out a physical infedelity (At least once!) and that had it been better, you would have left him. 

No one wants to be the back up plan in their own life and marriage. How would you have felt if this situation were reversed? What would you have wanted him to do to resolve this? Those are the efforts you begin to make and then wait to see if it can be repaired. Keep in mind though that much like a broken vase, it may be repairable to function but will never be completely whole again.


----------



## SadSamIAm

The last dd day was on last Saturday! You say you want to know what to do to show him you have changed. 

How can you have changed since then?

I think you are looking for an easy way to fix what you have done. There is no easy way.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

alte Dame said:


> Absolutely agree. I picked up on this contrast immediately.


I've posted a few times here and only a couple in DD's but I see the two WS's very differently. 

CM appears to be genuinely remorseful, not because she hurt DD but because, she truly realizes what she did was wrong. She's also done everything you would want a WS to do. NC, full transparency etc. family distribution if a D happens. 

MrsMatt doesn't appear to be fully remorseful. I see a much higher degree of selfishness from MrsMatt, not that CM isn't/wasn't selfish, that transcends just the affair. Her entire approach to her family seems selfish. Now, this is prior to her most recent postings, and I truly hope what we're seeing more recently is the "real" MrsMatt. If so than my opinion of her is changing. 

I don't consider one "betrayal" worse than another. I just see one WS handling it a little better than the other. They are both betrayals of the very core of marriage.

IMHO YMMV


----------



## Will_Kane

Look at my post on page 10 or 11 if you want to see what you could proactively do to show him it's all just not lip service.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

BTW for the record I do wish you can find the path to becoming the wife your husband needs and you do R. 

For your child's sake and your husband's because I hate families ending.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

From Matt's thread

Last night I found out that she had not stopped contact. She continued to drop off books for him to read at his porch, and made sure to go through the drive-thru where he worked to see him from time to time. 

One of her female students invited my wife to her schools performance of 'Spring Awakening'. Also invited was another male, and unbeknownst to me, the OM- they'd all been close friends at our two-year and had moved on. After the show they had some drinks and went back to her place to sleep over. I was directly lied to about who would be there, and who was there that night. The students did nothing to stop them from ending up in the same room alone, if anything they enabled it. I'm devasted by their lack of concern- any one of them could say 'Hey, she's trying to heal an affair' but no one did a thing. 

So, four months into R the wife and OM got to have their sex. It 'wasn't what she expected' and days later realized the fog had lifted and she was able to 'let him go'. She had some sort of addiction to him. She read some things on this forum and seemed to make a new, fuller commitment to us. Last night, thanks to a student tip, I found out they were together. It took a lot of prying and many, many lies. 

I'm utterly crushed. I KNOW I gave it an honest shot- used all the love languages and corrected many maladaptive behaviors, went to therapy, even considered that she might be polyamorous- All for nothing.

Don't think your husband is seeing the wonderful action you describe you have been doing since July.

Guess it is all in the person who is perceiving it.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> The OM is a child molester in that he has molested your child’s *emotions*. There will be fall out over his success with getting what he wanted from you and it was not love. Unfortunately the innocent child can sense the hurt and pain in his parents and he will suffer.
> 
> 
> *Quote of Numbers*I think you should not be so harsh on the OM – calling him a child molester. Yes, what he did was despicable. But remember, he was just a horny 19 year old boy. She is supposed to be the mature adult.



Is the child going to be affected by this affair?
Is the OM an adult?
Did Mrs. Matthias tell the OM that her child was the most important to her?
Is the OM’s action going to molest the emotions of that innocent Child?

*The answer to all the above is YES*


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Mrs. Mathias*
> don't feel I am trying to manipulate Matt back into a marriage with me. I came here to post and find feedback on a situation that no one I know in person ever discusses, regardless of whether it happened or not. I am not asking Matt to give me another chance. But as we continue to interact and co-parent and proceed toward divorce, *I am trying to not be the selfish person that I was.*



*Perhaps you realizing that you participated in damaging your child will help you to NEVER forget that being that kind of selfish has horrible consequences to an innocent child.*


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Acabado said:


> May I ask what are your other emotional conexions beyond this group of former students? Have you any friends who are married, couples, same age friends?
> 
> I have zero close friends where we live that are the same age or circumstance. All of my friends, married with kids etc. live hours away. My students and former students have been my only connection outside the home.
> 
> My last close colleague was let go and moved away two years ago. The students and I at the time had really worked together to attempt to save his job. Just another small piece in the puzzle, I guess.
> 
> I think there's an element of inmaturity which seems to permeate everything, since the way you believe long lasting relationships/marriage work (emotions, conexions, feelings but no practicing, comitment, day to day watering the grass) to the circle of people who are around you. Obviously your profession helps this, I've seen it many times with teachers.
> 
> Another thougth. Along with you call workaholism I believe you love the admiration from this group of former students. It's not your work what consume you emotional energy, looks like craving adoration. Marriage is not a source of continued adoration. As you claims to feel inadecuate as a wife and mom, which made you dive even more into work maybe it's partiatlly because of this.
> 
> I know we are piling up, making asumptions and demads. Not my intention. I think after this nightmate there are things about yourself you must adress, regardlss the outcome.
> 
> Do you know what. I believe your husband loves you so much that you can keep him, if you make some internal changes. Nothing will happen overnight. Be alone with your thoughs, let someone guide you, see the big picture, decide who you are, what you want in life and then fight for it with no rest.
> 
> I believe you are still so in shock after the latest developments you still didn't had the "WTF I was thinking" moment you so much need. The way you went subtly twards this path, then the lies, deceit, manipulation, the fact OM is who he is... all in light of the past years, the big picture of the marriage, the unrealistic vision of love and commitment. I hope you can see the light very soon.


----------



## AnnieAsh

Mr Blunt, with all due respect, tossing around the phrase child molester and tailoring its definition to suit your needs is beyond ridiculous and offensive to those of us who have suffered from sexual abuse. 

Om is a dirtbag, scumbag and a kid out to get laid. That is not the same freaking thing as sexually violating a child.

Sorry for the threadjack, OP.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

rrrbbbttt said:


> From Matt's thread
> 
> Last night I found out that she had not stopped contact. She continued to drop off books for him to read at his porch, and made sure to go through the drive-thru where he worked to see him from time to time.
> 
> One of her female students invited my wife to her schools performance of 'Spring Awakening'. Also invited was another male, and unbeknownst to me, the OM- they'd all been close friends at our two-year and had moved on. After the show they had some drinks and went back to her place to sleep over. I was directly lied to about who would be there, and who was there that night. The students did nothing to stop them from ending up in the same room alone, if anything they enabled it. I'm devasted by their lack of concern- any one of them could say 'Hey, she's trying to heal an affair' but no one did a thing.
> 
> So, four months into R the wife and OM got to have their sex. It 'wasn't what she expected' and days later realized the fog had lifted and she was able to 'let him go'. She had some sort of addiction to him. She read some things on this forum and seemed to make a new, fuller commitment to us. Last night, thanks to a student tip, I found out they were together. It took a lot of prying and many, many lies.
> 
> I'm utterly crushed. I KNOW I gave it an honest shot- used all the love languages and corrected many maladaptive behaviors, went to therapy, even considered that she might be polyamorous- All for nothing.
> 
> Don't think your husband is seeing the wonderful action you describe you have been doing since July.
> 
> Guess it is all in the person who is perceiving it.


Oh, somehow I missed that DrMathias is her husband.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61098-third-strike.html

Reading his thread what stands out to me is that after such a long false reconciliation he, at this point, has simply lost hope. He's cynical about his wife and believes that trying reconciliation again would simply bite him in the butt. It's only a matter of time, so why should he bother. His posts have a very pessimistic tone. Not sure how you fix that since it's pretty justified. But as I said before, continuing at the job is a non-starter. Every moment you spend at work is a trigger. EVERY SINGLE MOMENT is causing further pain. You pretty much can't even bring up reconciliation as a topic until you quit. You're waiting for him to be the bad guy and demand it before you do it apparently. Frankly, it's not enough to be willing to quit. He shouldn't have to ask. You should already be gone from that toxic place.


----------



## Numbersixxx

Mr Blunt said:


> Is the child going to be affected by this affair?
> Is the OM an adult?
> Did Mrs. Matthias tell the OM that her child was the most important to her?
> Is the OM’s action going to molest the emotions of that innocent Child?
> 
> *The answer to all the above is YES*


Yes, what he has done will influence the child’s life and emotion in a very negative way. No argument here. But calling him a child molester is stretching the definition too far. In fact, it diminishes the experience of real child abuse victims. 

He had consensual sex with a woman. It was she that prioritized her hedonistic impulses over her child’s well being. So, by your definition she is the main child molester – and I am not saying she is.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

AnnieAsh said:


> Mr Blunt, with all due respect, tossing around the phrase child molester and tailoring its definition to suit your needs is beyond ridiculous and offensive to those of us who have suffered from sexual abuse.
> 
> Om is a dirtbag, scumbag and a kid out to get laid. That is not the same freaking thing as sexually violating a child.
> 
> Sorry for the threadjack, OP.


Agreed. Seriously, this has nothing to do with the OM. He could have been anyone. Just some kid who got to do an aggressive milf. By keeping the focus on him, does it somehow take the blame off her for what she did? This kid is just a footnote to the whole story. It's ALL about her.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Why are you doing this?


You probably have in some manner explained the question I posed above in your prior posts, or you may be responding now.. and it will obviously be difficult to communicate with you with so many other voices... But...

If you really wanted 'help' or to find a way to 'fix' something about yourself, without any alterior motivation or agenda why wouldnt you have found another venue independant of your husbands? There are many infidelity and relationship websites out there. Was this duel threads / shared resources idea yours or your husbands?


----------



## Acabado

This way to highlight the severity of things by stretching or simply ignoring the truth is not going to help anyone.
Still read people saying she's "banging students". OM is a former student, it doesn'ty make it "better", it's already bad enough. It's unaccurate and damaging.


----------



## walkonmars

Mrs M it's clear that DrM views the friends as toxic enablers of the affair. Yet you found it necessary to apologize to them. Unless i am missing something this was a mistake. 

I presume they knew and ubderstood what was happening and if not actually encouraged it - provided the atmosphere. 

Granted, it was not their duty to oversee your fidelity but you must understand that sometimes friends - real friends- risk friendship to uphold what is right and just. They did just the opposite. 

FWIW im hopeful for your future.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Acabado said:


> This way to highlight the severity of things by stretching or simply ignoring the truth is not going to help anyone.
> Still read people saying she's "banging students". OM is a former student, it doesn'ty make it "better", it's already bad enough. It's unaccurate and damaging.


It may be strictly accurate that the physical event did not occur until after he was no longer an official transcript/grade type of student. 

However, my read is that the attraction and the beginnings of the emotional affair started when he WAS her student. Furthermore, although it is reading between the lines, my take is that the role he stayed on as was a kind of unofficial "advanced student" or teaching assistant role, in which he was still mentored by her, but not for a grade. I think the mentor/mentee dynamic still applies.


----------



## Acabado

Wolfman1968 said:


> It may be strictly accurate that the physical event did not occur until after he was no longer an official transcript/grade type of student.
> 
> Furthermore, although it is reading between the lines, my take is that the role he stayed on as was a kind of unofficial "advanced student" or teaching assistant role, in which he was still mentored by her, but not for a grade. *I think the mentor/mentee dynamic still applies.*


Absolutly, with all what it means. The poor boundaires, the work etics, the age gap, the fact OP seems to find herself more in tune with younger, inmature people and the "adoration" factor I pointed out earlier... there are tons of issues to adress. 
We are not stupid, we can be accurate and adress the real issue at the same time. As a matter of fact we must be accurate. It's incredicle how us (mostly BSs) become obsessed with accuracy - the truth - due our waywards tendency to minimize, spin, trick the truth... only to come here and blatantly ignore the truth to make a point. We master at subtlety and now this?

ETA
Let's use the scalpel instead the hammer.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

I started typing and almost said 'why bother' but that would have been a total waste so....

Random thoughts...

It sounds like you are an intelligent person. I'm not sure why you haven't been motivated to invest some of those intellectual resources into understanding why this happened, and what the outcome of this will be. It's really pretty cut & dry. 

While I understand how easy falling into 'it will be different with me/us' syndrome is... Ultimately, you must recognize that is just a exercise in denial. 

If your capable of stepping back and really being honest with yourself. Is staying in this relationship what's best for your husband? Ultimately, is that what's best for you and your child? This 'throwing yourself at the mercy of the court' exercise you’re going through right now is an interesting and curious approach,_ it says quite a bit about you or him depending one who’s idea this was_. But regardless, I don't think you can fathom what you’re pleading to be sentenced to.

To use a loose analogy, your actions were not a 'crime of passion' or even manslaughter... what you have done is akin to premeditated murder. It was malicious and calculated. The gravity of this betrayal is chart topping. You have annihilated Matt and your marriage. You did that knowingly, you calculated the cost of your decision and you made it. You didn’t flinch. 

I’m sure the value proposition looked different through your fog. I’m also sure after the deal was sealed and you realized what you traded in for a 15 minute haze of sweat, semen and teenage lust you had to be stricken with regret. You got hosed. But that’s nothing compared to what you signed your husband and child up for. 

Your actions have fundamentally changed who Matt is as a man. This kind of betrayal, shakes the foundation of we are as people. Both of you are changed forever. There is really no way you can calculate the damage that has been done. You are both very different people than you were before you made the choice for your family. The dust hasn’t even begun to settle. When this is done, you won’t recognize yourself or him. 

Don't be cruel, face the music. You made this deal.


----------



## Acabado

Wolfman1968 said:


> However, my read is that the attraction and the beginnings of the emotional affair started when he WAS her student.


What make you believe this? Mr dropped hints?

I'd like to know OP and Mr take on this.


----------



## snap

Why would they hook up after his graduation otherwise?


----------



## snap

Mrs, I think your husband made a mistake inviting you here. I do not believe you are genuine, and you'll now make the most of this forum to pull your husband into another false R.


----------



## Acabado

snap said:


> Why would they hook up after his graduation otherwise?


 So OP had sex with OM after graduation (2 years after!) therefore she started the EA earlier (when he was student) because why then wait for him to graduate to have sex with him?
I don't get the logic. It's faulty thinking.

After graduation OM become her mentee/auxiliar at some works in the school. With time the continued contact become an EA. Mr confronted this around May this year. I can't find where OP or Mrs stated or hinted EA started while OM was still student, two years ago.

Wolfman1968 believes it for some reason.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You probably have in some manner explained the question I posed above in your prior posts, or you may be responding now.. and it will obviously be difficult to communicate with you with so many other voices... But...
> 
> If you really wanted 'help' or to find a way to 'fix' something about yourself, without any alterior motivation or agenda why wouldnt you have found another venue independant of your husbands? There are many infidelity and relationship websites out there. Was this duel threads / shared resources idea yours or your husbands?


I have been reading threads on this forum off and on for a while now. I introduced Matt to it, as far as I know. He posted, and asked me to read his thread. He said it would be interesting to have me respond, and then we decided it would be better if I had a separate thread. I can certainly leave this venue to him.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Acabado said:


> What make you believe this? Mr dropped hints?
> 
> I'd like to know OP and Mr take on this.



I don't believe the emotional affair started when he was a student. It is honestly difficult for me to trace where it crossed that line. I would guess sometime in January/February of this past year. I'm not sure what Matt's perception of it is.


----------



## TCSRedhead

I hope you stay Mrs. M and that you find some helpful information. It's a hard road right now to whatever destination lies ahead for you and your husband.


----------



## Broken at 20

I am going to say some harsh things. 
Deal with it. 

1. NOBODY deserves reconciliation. NOBODY. 
But the WS can hope to prove to the BS that they can be both a better lover, friend, and parent for their spouse and family. 
Should the BS give them the chance? That is up to the BS, and no-one else. 

2. I don't think losing your job would be healthy for you. 
I am not saying you shouldn't, but let's say, against all odds, you two move to a new place, and try to start over. Well your husband can't trust you working, so you become a stay-at-home mom. Well, I believe you'll become so desperate trying to find something to do, that this situation will repeat itself. It may be with a neighbor instead of a student, but I believe it will. 

3. I think you have a lot of growing up to do. 
You do sound like a narcissistic from your post. 
And the WWs that post here, are generally, saying how they can barely sleep, they can barely eat, they can barely function. It took me making a blantantly false (though I didn't know it at the time) post for that to come out! 
And WW's are always scared. They fear losing their family, they fear losing their best friend, lover, and soul mate. 
I don't think you believe you married your soul mate. You just feel like you married a mate. I honestly think, to you, your husband just feels like a mate. Not your first place, nor your soul mate. 

4. And finally, I think you don't care about this marriage as much as you should. 
Because, I believe, you are only temporarily treating this marriage as your #1 priority. 
Because so far, sure doesn't sound like you are planning on keeping it your #1 priority. 
WW's that got reconciliation, got it because they wanted it, and worked for it. They fought for it. They made sure their husband knew everyday, they were sorry, that they loved their poor BH, that they would never do it again, and they made conscious efforts to change themselves to fix themselves. 

To most of us on here, sounds like you realize the marriage is dead, you are making almost no effort to change yourself and realize why you had the affair, you just realize what you were looking for was in the wrong place, and you are just putting in the bare minimum to not look like a horrible wife after the divorce. You aren't fighting for the possible "What if..." Chance. 
You are just waiting until you are asked to sign on the dotted line. 

But correct me if I am wrong on any point.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I started typing and almost said 'why bother' but that would have been a total waste so....
> 
> Random thoughts...
> 
> It sounds like you are an intelligent person. I'm not sure why you haven't been motivated to invest some of those intellectual resources into understanding why this happened, and what the outcome of this will be. It's really pretty cut & dry.
> 
> I'm not sure why you think I haven't invested thoughts and energy in that direction. It's pretty clear in my head at this point that I started sharing more communication with the OM over my husband and it escalated from there. I'm still figuring out WHY I did that, beyond simply saying I am overwhelmingly selfish. That is certainly true. But I need to figure out how to handle that selfishness - is it just a matter of discipline, is it a fundamental defect? Just saying I'm selfish feels like a cop out to not work on that issue and look for a solution for me as a person and my future with my son.
> 
> While I understand how easy falling into 'it will be different with me/us' syndrome is... Ultimately, you must recognize that is just a exercise in denial.
> 
> I agree with this completely.
> 
> If your capable of stepping back and really being honest with yourself. Is staying in this relationship what's best for your husband? Ultimately, is that what's best for you and your child? This 'throwing yourself at the mercy of the court' exercise you’re going through right now is an interesting and curious approach,_ it says quite a bit about you or him depending one who’s idea this was_. But regardless, I don't think you can fathom what you’re pleading to be sentenced to.
> 
> I do not currently know if staying with me is what's best for my husband. My instincts say maybe not, but I'm not ready to give in to that because it's hard to tell if that is just me wanting to avoid the work, to say that I'm "broken" and should just give up.
> 
> To use a loose analogy, your actions were not a 'crime of passion' or even manslaughter... what you have done is akin to premeditated murder. It was malicious and calculated. The gravity of this betrayal is chart topping. You have annihilated Matt and your marriage. You did that knowingly, you calculated the cost of your decision and you made it. You didn’t flinch.
> 
> I’m sure the value proposition looked different through your fog. I’m also sure after the deal was sealed and you realized what you traded in for a 15 minute haze of sweat, semen and teenage lust you had to be stricken with regret. You got hosed. But that’s nothing compared to what you signed your husband and child up for.
> 
> Your actions have fundamentally changed who Matt is as a man. This kind of betrayal, shakes the foundation of we are as people. Both of you are changed forever. There is really no way you can calculate the damage that has been done. You are both very different people than you were before you made the choice for your family. The dust hasn’t even begun to settle. When this is done, you won’t recognize yourself or him.
> 
> Don't be cruel, face the music. You made this deal.


----------



## ubercoolpanda

The advice given on this forum is amazing!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

ubercoolpanda said:


> The advice given on this forum is amazing!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See, thats what happens when you get a bunch of folks together, that get screwed over by the cheating spouse!


----------



## Wolfman1968

Acabado said:


> So OP had sex with OM after graduation (2 years after!) therefore she started the EA earlier (when he was student) because why then wait for him to graduate to have sex with him?
> I don't get the logic. It's faulty thinking.
> 
> After graduation OM become her mentee/auxiliar at some works in the school. With time the continued contact become an EA. Mr confronted this around May this year. I can't find where OP or Mrs stated or hinted EA started while OM was still student, two years ago.
> 
> Wolfman1968 believes it for some reason.


OK, I'm having problems with being able to quote from multiple posts.

However, if you look at the very first post, it describes how it was when she FIRST met him as a student. She was "tuned into him" like an "antenna". I think the attraction started then, and by her own admission, the emotional/intellectual connection began.

When does it cross the line between attraction and an EA? Don't know if anyone can really say, but here is an example of excessive emotional investment into a student at that time.

THAT is why I think the beginnings of the EA started when OM was a still a student.

OK, I am adding a little edit with some cut and paste to make my point. From the original post of this thread:

MrsMathias says:

The OM had entered my life as one of my students three and a half years ago. Also from the day I met him, I felt a connection – not like the I know this is the person I’m supposed to marry, like it was with Matt – but just an immediate ease and energy awareness, I guess. My best descriptor is that I feel like I am an antenna tuned to his frequency. I didn’t think anything of it in particular, I just knew that we got along and I enjoyed working with him. I have always been close to my students, I think it’s really difficult to work in an artistic environment and foster that kind of creation without a willingness to be emotionally invested in the other people and vision you share.

It has become very clear that I have substantial boundary issues........
.....

The OM and I shared a close friendship. *We spoke or corresponded every day, even when school was not in session. I honestly did not realize what was happening,* because I routinely corresponded with many of my students on a very regular basis.
(end of cut/paste)

So you can see that excessive communication began EVEN WHILE A STUDENT.
Reminds me of other WSs who send 600 texts a day to their object of affection, and still maintain there is nothing going on.


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## KanDo

*do not currently know if staying with me is what's best for my husband. My instincts say maybe not, but I'm not ready to give in to that because it's hard to tell if that is just me wanting to avoid the work, to say that I'm "broken" and should just give up*.

It's sad to see you post that you aren't sure that you are the best thing for your husband. In my experience, successfully recovering waywards feel they can be, and will be the best thing for their spouse; that they will move moutains to make sure they are. And make no mistake, you are seriously broken and will have to do "the work" if you are going to happy in the future anyway. If I was you I would be imploring DrM to give me another chance. I would be campaigning that no one else would ever be as devoted to him as you will be. That this trajedy of self-centeredness has opened your eyes to the wonderful man he is and the terribly loose boundries you had previously. But only if you mean it. If you don't. Please do him, yourself, and your child a favor and walk away.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I have been reading threads on this forum off and on for a while now. I introduced Matt to it, as far as I know. He posted, and asked me to read his thread. He said it would be interesting to have me respond, and then we decided it would be better if I had a separate thread. I can certainly leave this venue to him.


I'm wondering if u saw where I was going with my question?

By the account that you gave above, the picture becomes a little more clear. It's hard to get a handle on how much of the dysfunction of this situation lies with whom, but it's twisted. I'm not talking about your infidelity, I'm talking about this dynamic the two of you are creating here. It's not healthy, as a matter of fact it's toxic. 

If you have been reading this forum, you clearly knew exactly what was going to happen when u posted your story. That was going to be intensified x100 running these posts concurrently. You knew that. You also knew he would be witnessing this venomous witch hunt, and here you are taking these beatings in his full view. What's being satisfied on his end I don't know, or what you hope to accomplish doing this, I'm just not sure. Martyring yourself, or figuratively getting beaten to elicit some pity or show of being accepting of your punishment? 

Regardless of any of the above, it's becoming a sick picture. Something that has become evident, is that you are in crisis and this is not good for you. You are not remorseful, your likely in shock and desperate to do anything you can. Whoever you are, and whoever your husband is, I'm imploring you to reconsider continuing this. 

Your a human being, and you made a horrible mistake. You will pay for it likely for a very long time, and it will change both of you. True remorse may eventually settle in, but it's not there now and this feels all wrong... Please stop this and back away.


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## Tall Average Guy

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> If you have been reading this forum, you clearly knew exactly what was going to happen when u posted your story. That was going to be intensified x100 running these posts concurrently. You knew that. You also knew he would be witnessing this venomous witch hunt, and here you are taking these beatings in his full view. What's being satisfied on his end I don't know, or what you hope to accomplish doing this, I'm just not sure. Martyring yourself, or figuratively getting beaten to elicit some pity or show of being accepting of your punishment?


Or is she hoping that the board will convince him to end the marriage, so that she is not the one doing it?


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## daisygirl 41

Tall Average Guy said:


> Or is she hoping that the board will convince him to end the marriage, so that she is not the one doing it?


And they're doing a very good job of it too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41

Mrs M, I've been following both threads (well trying to). Could you clarify for me please when your last contact with the OM was and when your last DDay was? I don't want to comment before I am clear on these things.
Maybe a 'to the point' timeline could be given.
Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

Well, I'm not shy.... another poster is saying that you were with the OM just last night. Where is he getting that idea? Is it true????


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## sharkeey

Wolfman1968 said:


> OK, I'm having problems with being able to quote from multiple posts.


It's not rocket science. You quote (and thus reply to) the person's post that you want to use, then in the reply box, you remove unwanted text and surround the text you want to quote with the first quote tag, which includes the persons user Id, semicolon, and a bunch of numbers, and end it with an end quote tag. If you want to quote more than one block of text from the same post, then copy the quote tags and paste them in front of and at the end of every piece of text you want quoted, neatly separating each quoted bit of post with a space.

If you then want to quote someone else's post, copy the entire block of quoted posts you just prepared from the first post, then go quote another post, and paste in the previously copied and tagged posts, and continue this procedure until you've quoted all the posts you want to.


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## iheartlife

sharkeey said:


> Originally Posted by Wolfman1968
> OK, I'm having problems with being able to quote from multiple posts.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not rocket science. You quote (and thus reply to) the person's post that you want to use, then in the reply box, you remove unwanted text and surround the text you want to quote with the first quote tag, which includes the persons user Id, semicolon, and a bunch of numbers, and end it with an end quote tag. If you want to quote more than one block of text from the same post, then copy the quote tags and paste them in front of and at the end of every piece of text you want quoted, neatly separating each quoted bit of post with a space.
> 
> If you then want to quote someone else's post, copy the entire block of quoted posts you just prepared from the first post, then go quote another post, and paste in the previously copied and tagged posts, and continue this procedure until you've quoted all the posts you want to.
Click to expand...

Or, you push the button "multi" under each post you want to quote, and then click reply and all those posts will show up in the message box.

To do nested quotes (as I just did) I do something similar to what sharkeey just said, but then put an additional QUOTE and /QUOTE (both surrounded by brackets) around the interior quote.


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## sharkeey

iheartlife said:


> Or, you push the button "multi" under each post you want to quote, and then click reply and all those posts will show up in the message box.


Ah, so it does. Never actually used it before. It puts them all together in one big post and you just remove the text you don't want.

Doesn't do the step of making several quotes of one post, you still need to copy and paste the start and end quote tags on each individual block of desired text within each person's individual post but yes, multi-quote does save a few copy and pastes, although it doesn't seem to do anything when you click it, it's actually copying the persons post to some internal clipboard for use going forward.


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## Chaparral

Reconcilliation ultimatel resides with your husband. Since you have a child I hope you make it. I hope that even if you don't, you have learned what is truly important.............family.

This may help, study it and then study it with your husband.

The Wayward Spouse Instructions

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## Acabado

Mrs_Mathias said:


> *I don't believe* the emotional affair started when he was a student. It is honestly difficult for me to trace where it crossed that line. I would guess sometime in January/February of this past year. I'm not sure what Matt's perception of it is.


Waiting for some clarification from your husband part. Still the bolded part is very worrisome itself. Don't you think?

Did you spent the same amount of energy/time/comunication in any other student?


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## Acabado

Not waiting anymore. Wolfman is right, now that I read again the initial post the EA started almost the moment she met him as student.

I'd like to hear Mrs_Mathias to elaborate why she thinks EA started Jan/feb this year and not before.

This put things even at an other level.


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## jim123

I think you made a lot of progress in less than a week. I am not sure it is going to help. You have a tough road ahead.

You made your choices. They are not mistakes but choices. You would not stop until you had the OM. Too bad your Plan A did not work out for you and yes he was plan A.

A mistake that you can make is trying to keep your husband if you do not love him. He realizes and I hope you do that he was Plan B and the only reason you are here today is sex with OM was not up to par.

Take the time to make sure you love him and you want your marriage. The fact people were helping you cheat indicates that you did not love your husband nor were you happy in your marriage. Why else would they do what they did.

Figure out what you really want not to say you have total control. By the sound of your husband, it is getting worse for him.


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## Shaggy

I think you should write down a timeline of the affair go get yourself a polygraph , because after the revelations on Sunday, it's clear your husband has never known the full truth because you compartmentalize and hide it from him.

I doubt even now if he knows it all. You've likely only admitted to what he knows as of this past Sunday.

What's the rest of the story that you've kept hidden?


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## Mrs_Mathias

I out of town for a few days, posting on my phone. Here's a brief timeline, because something has gotten confused somewhere.

July 2009 - Met OM
January 2011 - OM ended his classes
January 2012 - EA began (I use this date because that's when I can remember our conversations becoming more personal in nature- families, relationships, etc.)
May 29, 2012 - PA began with kissing
May 31, 2012 - I left for NYC
3rd week of June, 2012 - cyber affair began
July 17, 2012 - return from NYC, D-Day #1
3rd week of September - NC broken with drive through/book drop off
November 2, 2012 - Sex with OM
November 3, 2012 - last contact with OM
November 17, 2012 - D-Day #2
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

I though the sex was months ago and the Matt just found out on the Sunday.

I had no idea you just recently where in the OMs bed. 

And now you're on a trip? Are you alone or with your kids, because if I was Matt, I'd be assuming this is just another lie and planned hookup.


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## WorkingOnMe

Seriously? Out of town without your husband days after dday?


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## Mrs_Mathias

WorkingOnMe said:


> Seriously? Out of town without your husband days after dday?


Matt asked me to leave. He wanted some space and he kept our son. I am staying with mutual friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by AnnieAsh *
> Mr Blunt, with all due respect, tossing around the phrase child molester and tailoring its definition to suit your needs is beyond ridiculous and offensive to those of us who have suffered from *sexual* abuse.
> 
> Om is a dirtbag, scumbag and a kid out to get laid. That is not the same freaking thing as *sexually* violating a child.
> 
> Sorry for the threadjack, OP.


 *How about you read my posts carefully, stick with the facts rather than speculate about my needs.*
Here are the facts again:



> *Originally Posted by Mr. Blunt *
> Is the child going to be affected by this affair?
> Is the OM an adult?
> Did Mrs. Matthias tell the OM that her child was the most important to her?
> Is the OM’s action going to molest the emotions of that innocent Child?
> 
> *The answer to all the above is YES*


Secondly, it obvious that you did not read my post very carefully or you just wanted to see it your way. I even underlined and highlighted the words that said “Molested EMOTIONS. *No mention of your accusation of “sexually violating a child” 
Stop misrepresenting me.*

Just so you don’t miss it again I am reprinting my exact words again.



> The OM is a child molester in that he has molested your child’s *emotions.*


Annie, at least read my post and quote me if you are going to judge me as ridiculous and offensive. You rewording my post to misrepresent is obvious and a thread jack.

*My posts were directed to the OP not to you* in hopes that she would realize that the OM was only in this for himself and cared more about his pleasure than the child. 

Here below again is what the OM said 


> I told him that Matt and my son were the most important things to me, and he said he understood that, wanted me to be happy and just loved me


Then the OM screwed her and now the child has real turmoil because he can sense the pain in both of his parents. *I call the OM what he is, a molester of a child’s emotions, and you say that is offensive?*

My post was to combat her feeling of “Craving” that kind of feeling. Remind her of reality and put reality over craving manipulating feelings that are a crock of shyt. In addition if she despises that kind of man that will help her the next time she is fed a line of crap. Also, it may help her husband to know that she has no good feelings left for any man that would put their pleasure above hurting a child. That is one reason that I said




> You should despise that OM as he has molested the *emotions* of your innocent child



Annie, you can misrepresent me and judge me as ridiculous and offensive all you want but I am not going to stop presenting the facts about the reality of what a betrayer does to a child. *If the OP sees the reality of betrayal then maybe it will be a barrier to getting into another fog and fantasy that hurts a child.*


----------



## Numbersixxx

jim123 said:


> You made your choices. They are not mistakes but choices. You would not stop until you had the OM. Too bad your Plan A did not work out for you and yes he was plan A.
> 
> A mistake that you can make is trying to keep your husband if you do not love him. He realizes and I hope you do that he was Plan B and the only reason you are here today is sex with OM was not up to par.


Who would want to stay with a wife, knowing that the main reason she is with him is that sex with a teenage boy was bad?


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## Kasler

^Pretty much. If OM rocked your world you would most definitely not be here.


----------



## WyshIknew

MrsM,

Selftweaks posted this in your MrM's thread. I don't think he has answered. I think this is a very good point.
If there is even the tiniest chance of reconciliation how do you propose to assure your husband that this is not the case. Personally I think you have an uphill battle.

She has given her heart to this guy because of how he makes her feel. Once they do that, the marriage is essentially over.

She has obviously made her choice despite all the great advice she received to work on reconciliation. Sorry to break it to you, but the other guy has you beat in the one area that matters in this marriage - she is connected to him emotionally.

What happens when OM returns on the scene?

How would you deal with that fluttering, guilt, lust (however you described it)?

I take it that even if this temporary seperation becomes longer you will still have to attend some functions if not together at least at the same time?

I don't know what your husband is like but I would feel humiliated attending these functions and even my day to day duties with people pitying me and students smirking behind my back wondering if they'll get a crack with the wife. It is very emasculating.


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## Madman1

Sex for the first time between two people can be disappointing.
But when there is good communication and true love the couple can work together to achieve bliss.

I'm sure you are used to a more experienced hand but the vigor of youth can offer a sense of innocence that is very intoxicating.

Here is a book you might consider getting him, its available at Barnes and Noble. I'm sure with good communication and some patients he will be able to "rock" your world.

All the Way Sex for the First Time 
by Kim Martyn, Kim Smith (Illustrator), Kim Gelico (Illustrator) 

BARNES & NOBLE | All the Way Sex for the First Time by Kim Martyn, Sumach Press

I hope this helps.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


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## daisygirl 41

Numbersixxx said:


> Who would want to stay with a wife, knowing that the main reason she is with him is that sex with a teenage boy was bad?


Was he a teenage boy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41

Mrs Mathias I am a BS so I have no sympathy for you but I am not going to bash you.
The reason I asked for the time line was because the lines were a bit blurred and some posters were misunderstanding the time frame.
I believe you are still in your 'affair fog' and your emotions and feelings for the OM are still raw and overwhelming, this is why your post are not coming across as sincere or heartfelt. A week ago you wanted this man, you can't possibly say now that you have no feelings from him surely?
What I will say though is that you have truly decided that you no longer want or desire him (in your head) it is going to take a while for your heart to catch up.
In the mean time do all the things others posters have suggested regarding transparency.

One thing that does bother me though is your relationship with your son. It's only what I have picked up from your thread but he is only a little one, do you think that you have bonded with him sufficiently? I feel no sadness from your post that you have had to move out and leave him! Did you do this without a fight? I'm just trying to get my head around it. I feel for your husband, but I desperately feel for your child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numbersixxx

daisygirl 41 said:


> Was he a teenage boy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think I read that he was 19 but I don’t have time to re-check the whole 2 treads. Now I am not so sure and I may be wrong.


----------



## WasDecimated

Acabado said:


> Not waiting anymore. Wolfman is right, now that I read again the initial post the EA started almost the moment she met him as student.
> 
> I'd like to hear Mrs_Mathias to elaborate why she thinks EA started Jan/feb this year and not before.
> 
> This put things even at an other level.


I'm don't believe the EA started immediately after meeting OM. I think that was physical attraction...the first step. I believe the EA started after they began to exchange personal information and communicate on a regular basis thus building the emotional relationship. This is where the addiction is formed...the second step. PA would be the third step.


----------



## Shaggy

OP - given your history, I'm going to predict that in a week or two you are going to begin rationalizing why you should reach out to the poor OM to make sure he isn't traumatized by the affair being discovered. To make sure that he isn't feeling threatened by you nasty husband, and to make sure he isn't lonely.

You're going contact him and ask to meet up to make sure he has been able to work out things with Chelsea.

And you're going to try to have sex with him again so you really verify that your deep emotional connection to him wasn't just off that night two weeks ago.

My question to you: Is what are going to do now to make sure the above doesn't come to be?

Does you husband have all your passwords?

Are you telling your husband where you are at and who you are with all day long along with proof?


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## SadSamIAm

The OP was asking for advice on how to make her husband realize that she has changed. She slept with the OM a couple of weeks ago. Now she is a changed woman. Miraculous!!!


----------



## Wazza

Mr Blunt said:


> Is the child going to be affected by this affair?
> Is the OM an adult?
> Did Mrs. Matthias tell the OM that her child was the most important to her?
> Is the OM’s action going to molest the emotions of that innocent Child?
> 
> *The answer to all the above is YES*


Blunt. I get the point you are trying to make....that the needs of the child were ignored in the decision to have an affair.

But firstly, it is not molestation. Bad as it was, it's not that. I think you are overdoing the hyperbole.

Secondly, it was not just the guy who did this, it was the child's mother. In fact, depending who did the pursuing, it may have been mostly the mother.

There are many, many similarities between what MrsM did and my wife's affair. Her OM didn't care about my kids. Sadly, my wife now realises her emotional connection was not reciprocated by him either. He was just after sex.

MrsM, my wife and I are still together. We are together because I stayed for the sake of my children, when my world was gutted, and I assumed my marriage was dead. Over time we refound love. The things that let us click were still there, once we gave them time. I think the mistake of an affair is often that you get caught up in the high of first attraction with someone who is not your spouse, and you don't control it. And it diverts energy from your marriage.

I wonder in your case whether this was exacerbated by spending so much time with younger student who are not yet ready for commitment....whether this steers you towards less mature relationships. I wonder what close relationships you guys had with others closer to your age and situation.

I don't know what your husband is going to do. I can warn you that if he stays he will never totally get over what you did to him, but also I can tell you that my marriage today is the best it had ever been, maybe yours could be too. And Blunt's point about the kid strikes a chord with me. Glad I stayed for them. It was worth it.

But as others have said, your husband has to decide that.

I won 't post this on your husband's thread as well, but if you think it is relevant, show it to him.

You made a horrible mistake, a very bad choice, and deeply hurt your family. That doesn't make you a worthless person. The past is fixed, but the future can be what you make it. Be strong.


----------



## Mrs_Mathias

Shaggy said:


> OP - given your history, I'm going to predict that in a week or two you are going to begin rationalizing why you should reach out to the poor OM to make sure he isn't traumatized by the affair being discovered. To make sure that he isn't feeling threatened by you nasty husband, and to make sure he isn't lonely.
> 
> You're going contact him and ask to meet up to make sure he has been able to work out things with Chelsea.
> 
> And you're going to try to have sex with him again so you really verify that your deep emotional connection to him wasn't just off that night two weeks ago.
> 
> My question to you: Is what are going to do now to make sure the above doesn't come to be?
> 
> Does you husband have all your passwords?
> 
> Are you telling your husband where you are at and who you are with all day long along with proof?


At this point, I don't even know what to speak about. I'm out of our home, trying to give Matt the space he needs. He does it want me to return after the holiday break. I have made arrangements to stay nearby. I am crushed and devastated without my son, and Matt. I know my actions haven't shown that, but how do I get time to demonstrate new actions??? It may b that I am still "in the fog" and would start rationalizing contact in a week or two. Alli know for certain is that after d-Day 1 I still felt confused/split whatever regarding OM and now I don't feel that. I don't wonder where he is or if he's ok. I want to be home with my family, taking care of them, bringing Matt soup and his favorite movies, and wrapping him up in the biggest blanket in the house and just trying to love him the way I should have all these past months. I want to just be there for him, to love away the hurt, insecurity, and total emasculation I put him through.

I have been an absolutely shytty excuse for a human being. I squandered everything that had any importance in my life. I don't care about the house, the things, a "cushy" life. I care about the man who made me the center of his world. I would give anything to go back and undo it. But I can't. I will go forward, because that's what we do as people. And people CAN and DO change. Or there would never be any R. Or any other relationships for WS after D. I am trying to execute actions that match my words. I let him take the lead, I left when he asked. I am texting him my location and who I am with. I have been in constant contact with my family and mutual friends. I have NOT made any effort (after my initial apology, which I can see how that would be viewed as a mistake) to reach the people who enabled this. I am looking for a new job. I am giving up my other jobs that I am not contractually obligated to at this point. I will move where've Matt goesto keep up, what I hope will be joint custody, or at least frequent visitation with my son. I don't care what it takes,

You all can continue bashing. I'm sure it feels good to have an outlet for the pain and betrayal you went through. I will keep looking for useful knowledge, tips, and insight between all of the rest. You can't see me, don't really know me, and I can never fully communicate what we are going through. Believe what you want about me. Tell my husband I am heartless narcissistic *****. Tell him our son needs a paternity test. I know who I am and what I have done. I can never outlive the pain I see on the face of the man I have loved for most of my life.

For those of you who have given me honest thoughts, suggestions, and resources, I am very grateful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ovid

R takes a long time. It may not happen because R also takes both willing to work on things. You may have taken too long to come around for that to be a reality. You know your H limits. Continue to show true remorse and be willing to do what it takes and you may have a shot.


----------



## Acabado

Decimated said:


> I'm don't believe the EA started immediately after meeting OM. I think that was physical attraction...the first step. I believe the EA started after they began to exchange personal information and communicate on a regular basis thus building the emotional relationship. This is where the addiction is formed...the second step. PA would be the third step.


It's hard to understand when "innapropiate" becomes EA.

But read Wolfman's post, read her first post. She felt "conected" (intelectually?, artistically?, emotionally?) since the very beginning. While she displays bad boundaries in general as a teacher I'm rather sure she was in comunication with OM way more than other studens (specially famales), even more conected to him than her own husband. Maybe she can correct me in this. Teachers don't need dayly comunications with students. The amount of attention is shocking. No way *all* this texting/calling/emailing was about the subject of theater or music at a proffesional level. They were in constant comunication even in the summer.
The amount of energy/time she spent on him was deducted from the marriage and from other students, even when "romantic" feelings weren't there make of it an EA in my book. 
What kind of emotional needs they were sharing before Jan/Feb is something she must think hard about. Dis she used him as emotional support after arguments?
I don't know how BH was feeling this time but I believe she was way more plugged with this "friend" (lets put it this way) than with him. Is this not an EA? 
When I read her timeline she claims was early this year when "conversations becoming *more* personal in nature"... this doesn't mean they never shared this kind of info in the past... how is possible given the amount of comunication, given the instant "conexion" she felt when he showed up at class the first time? Is there any other person/student (male, female) she was so plugged those years? Any other she was comunicating in the summer?

No wonder her husband believed his wife might be "polyamorous" and not precisely between her work/vocation and the family, but between OM (in general) and him. A way to rationalize the blatant cake eating. This piece is worth to explose, I believe.


I'd like to know how OP feels about OM right now, how she envision this affair after he basically threw her under the bus and mocked her to his GF (at least her sex skills) nad right now is likely bragging and putting the blame on her.
Many here and at BH's thread (including me) asumed was her the one who realized no "conexion"/no "soulmate feelings" after the ONS so mutually agreed to stop. I wonder whether was indeed OM who dumped her and then OP realized was used.
Let's think about it, this young OM had a GF, they broke ip many times, has no future in that town, knows he must go away to styart his career... basically risjked nothing. On the other hand Ms Mathias was risking everything, her family, work, reputation... She was sure hooked up.
I have the sensation Ms Mathias was the main persuer-instigator, the one who pushed the boundaires further away, acting out of this atraction she felt years ago. OM's kiss means nothing, many woman are not overtly agressive but this doesn't mean she didn't want him to kiss her since time ago, women are the gate keepers. I asumed the ONS happened at least 1 month ago so given the fogginess she's displaying I take eveything she writes with a grain of salt (not telling she blatantly lying but buillsh1iting herself to protect her ego) so the allegued susprise at OM's kiss... hmmm.

Hope she start thinking more clearly becasue she seems now as lost as she sure was a couple of weeks ago.
I'm still waiting for some clarity, for the what the f0ck I was thinking moment. I don't believe writting her is going to help her in this.

ETA
I realized I was talking to you in third person. I apologize for that. I'm leaving my post as i wrote it if you don't mind, I never intended to be that long, it was in response to Decimated.


----------



## Acabado

Hope Sigma chimes in, he has very interesting things to say about the subject of how EAs start and develop.


----------



## CH

People can change for the better but words are just that words.

I know my limitations and I know how weak I am when it comes to sex and women. If they are around me, eventually I will cheat. So I did what I thought would make it impossible for me the cheat again, I cut out every female friend I had and have made zero no female friends.

I don't get phone numbers, don't take them if offered, as little contact as possible unless it's for work.

There was one other who was sooo good at saying the right things on this board not too long ago. Gave the basic BS lines to make it seem like she was turning over a new page in her life and things were going to be much better. Didn't last long, she fell off the wagon pretty quick once she got the trust of her husband back.

You can't fix it unless you know why it's broken. For me, if it's a human female over 18 that is half way decent looking and I get to know her. I'll most likely sleep with her. Can't put drugs/alcohol in front of a recovered or recovering addict all the time, they just can't help themselves.

Your actions speak louder than your words. BTW your words mean jack *Bleep* to your husband right now. Every word that comes out at this point is most likely a lie, even if it's the truth.

BTW, now you're prepared to become the best wife in the world, have you ever asked yourself why you didn't want to do it before you cheated?

Oh, now we're sooooo nice, help out more, clean more, more attentive, call more, touch you more, hold you more, love you more....WTF how come that didn't happen prior to the affair?

I know why I didn't do those things before the affair, do you?


----------



## warlock07

This thread is brutal...


----------



## alte Dame

Mrs_Mathias said:


> At this point, I don't even know what to speak about. I'm out of our home, trying to give Matt the space he needs. He does it want me to return after the holiday break. I have made arrangements to stay nearby. I am crushed and devastated without my son, and Matt. I know my actions haven't shown that, but how do I get time to demonstrate new actions??? It may b that I am still "in the fog" and would start rationalizing contact in a week or two. Alli know for certain is that after d-Day 1 I still felt confused/split whatever regarding OM and now I don't feel that. I don't wonder where he is or if he's ok. I want to be home with my family, taking care of them, bringing Matt soup and his favorite movies, and wrapping him up in the biggest blanket in the house and just trying to love him the way I should have all these past months. I want to just be there for him, to love away the hurt, insecurity, and total emasculation I put him through.
> 
> I have been an absolutely shytty excuse for a human being. I squandered everything that had any importance in my life. I don't care about the house, the things, a "cushy" life. I care about the man who made me the center of his world. I would give anything to go back and undo it. But I can't. I will go forward, because that's what we do as people. And people CAN and DO change. Or there would never be any R. Or any other relationships for WS after D. I am trying to execute actions that match my words. I let him take the lead, I left when he asked. I am texting him my location and who I am with. I have been in constant contact with my family and mutual friends. I have NOT made any effort (after my initial apology, which I can see how that would be viewed as a mistake) to reach the people who enabled this. I am looking for a new job. I am giving up my other jobs that I am not contractually obligated to at this point. I will move where've Matt goesto keep up, what I hope will be joint custody, or at least frequent visitation with my son. I don't care what it takes,
> 
> You all can continue bashing. I'm sure it feels good to have an outlet for the pain and betrayal you went through. I will keep looking for useful knowledge, tips, and insight between all of the rest. You can't see me, don't really know me, and I can never fully communicate what we are going through. Believe what you want about me. Tell my husband I am heartless narcissistic *****. Tell him our son needs a paternity test. I know who I am and what I have done. I can never outlive the pain I see on the face of the man I have loved for most of my life.
> 
> For those of you who have given me honest thoughts, suggestions, and resources, I am very grateful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This sounds more heartfelt to me than anything you've written & that must be a good development. You may not feel like a heartless person, but the effect of your actions is to have broken the heart of the man you say you love. You don't have to have been betrayed to see this and condemn it & doing so isn't bashing.

For me, the general observation is that you have sounded so self-focused that you can't see your H's pain through any other lens. If you are starting to do that now, that is a good first step.


----------



## TCSRedhead

I think you are beginning on the right path. This is really difficult. My husband and I are now 16 months past D day for my EA and this is only now beginning to get a little easier. 

Keep working at this and working on you.


----------



## Kasler

I've read similar from ally babe. 

Time will tell.


----------



## loveisforever

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I have been 100% honest... the last trickle truth was Sunday morning when I confessed having been the one to renew contact and the book exchange. I have spent so long censoring my statements or simply not communicating because i was afraid of the negativity (projected or not). I cannot do that anymore. If we will survive this, I have to get over my fear and habit of omission to spare feelings. It's incredibly hard, and my instincts all warn against it... I'm not sure how that became the norm for me.


Here you are. You instinct now is to omit, rationalize and lye your way out. It is all about you. You are self-absorbed, self centered and narcissistic. Can you check online and see if you have borderline personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder. I would not be surprised that you would find yourself at least have some traits.


----------



## Numbersixxx

warlock07 said:


> This thread is brutal...


What she has done is brutal.


----------



## Wazza

Numbersixxx said:


> What she has done is brutal.


Is the goal to help her or punish her?


----------



## Ovid

Wazza said:


> Is the goal to help her or punish her?


I think the answer to that depends on who's posting


----------



## Kasler

Wazza said:


> Is the goal to help her or punish her?


She can't be helped by us. 

Only person who can help her is herself and the only person who can punish her is herself and her husband.


----------



## MrMathias

She punished herself. I wasn't going to post in her thread, but who cares now? 
*
DDAY 3 TODAY!*

*May:* I suspect an EA between WW and OM. 

*Mid May:* Ruined romantic evening, confrontation about possible A. Denied by WW. "I don't think of him romantically. I would never do that to you." 

*May 22:* OM kisses WW, she doesn't stop him. 

*May 29: BJ and Cunnilingus in her office. *
*June 1:* WW and I leave for NYC.
*Mid June:* Texting, graphic Facebook messages
*Early July:* Cybersex and two web shows

*July 17:* *First day back from NYC. WW gives OM BJ at his seedy crappy house.* 

*July 17 Night DDay #1:* BGF slips me a Facebook account on a post-it note. I log in and confirm an A, the extent of which is not fully revealed UNTIL TONIGHT or EVER. Confrontation and sheer anguish.

*July 20:* R starts with WW calling to set up MC, seems genuinely remorseful

*Early-Mid Sept.* OM is seen walking down the street as we're driving to MC. Pretty big trigger for me. I later find out that WW felt torn, with worry for him, lust/love, and guilt. I would say this is the day the R became false. I knew she was not 100% with me then. 

*Late Sept:* WW breaks NC by visiting OM at the drive through, and drops off books to ease his boredom*... they begin Skyping, using her office computer. *

*EARLY OCT:* *WW begins having intercourse with OM, perhaps six times over the next month.* 

*Oct 31: *OM seen at a town parade. Massive trigger for me. WW seems distant, or like a deer in headlights. She doesn't appear to make eye contact. 

*Nov. 2:* WW meets with OM with help of students, they have intercourse one last time???.
*
Continued Skyping. 
*
*Nov. 12 or 14:* WW calls me crying from her office, saying she wants me to know she wants to work on us. I think she sensed that I was giving up or starting to look to greener pasture. She points me to some threads on this forum, even one where the WW ended up in D, but with good tips for R. 

*Nov. 17: DDay #2:* BGF sends me a message and I discover that WW had seen OM again when she was out of town. WW denies sex, "only kissing". 

*Nov.18:* WW confesses to her parents, after they urge her to stop lying she reveals that she had been breaking NC since Sept. I think this is the only thing she willingly divulged. I would never have found out I'm sure if she hadn't told me. it was obviously a severe blow. 
I make my first post here. 

*NOV. 21 DDAY#3. After a phone call to the right people, I get some truth.* *Sex more than once. BJ and Etc. in office. Skyping.* 

*WW calls to talk to son via Facetime*. I asked if she had anything else to tell me about the affair. She said no. I got her to admit that she had Skyped with CJ in the last four months. I then know everything else I heard from my sources is 100% true. 

I tell her I already know the answers and to answer truthfully. I ask her a series of questions- how many times did you have sex? Where? The time you kissed before NYC, that wasn't it, was it?
I rant at her on the phone for about three minutes. We call her parents, together, and she tells them everything I learned tonight. 

I am devastated to the core. Words cannot express. Thanks to all the skeptics among you. This forum has saved me.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

God Damn. This totally effing sucks. You know, she was starting to have some of us fooled. Unbelievable.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Let me guess....she hasn't given you a bj in years has she?


----------



## Jonesey

Mrs_Mathias said:


> At this point, I don't even know what to speak about. I'm out of our home, trying to give Matt the space he needs. He does it want me to return after the holiday break. I have made arrangements to stay nearby. I am crushed and devastated without my son, and Matt. I know my actions haven't shown that, but how do I get time to demonstrate new actions??? It may b that I am still "in the fog" and would start rationalizing contact in a week or two. Alli know for certain is that after d-Day 1 I still felt confused/split whatever regarding OM and now I don't feel that. I don't wonder where he is or if he's ok. I want to be home with my family, taking care of them, bringing Matt soup and his favorite movies, and wrapping him up in the biggest blanket in the house and *just trying to love him the way I should have all these past months.* Here is where you miss the whole point.
> It´s not a question of what you should have done these past month´s.We are talking more of years your should have done this things..But you haven't.
> 
> 
> I want to just be there for him, to love away the hurt, insecurity, and total emasculation I put him through.
> 
> *I have been an absolutely shytty excuse for a human being. I squandered everything that had any importance in my life. I don't care about the house, the things, a "cushy" life.*Deliberately being harsh here.Please stop being a drama queen now.. I mean for years you did not care,And up till now,your job still seem´s to be number one thing for you.?
> 
> I care about the man who made me the center of his world. I would give anything to go back and undo it. But I can't. I will go forward, because that's what we do as people. *And people CAN and DO change.*True..Start showing that quit your job.Its a good start.
> 
> 
> Or there would never be any R. Or any other relationships for WS after D. I am trying to execute actions that match my words. I let him take the lead, I left when he asked. I am texting him my location and who I am with. I have been in constant contact with my family and mutual friends. I have NOT made any effort (after my initial apology, which I can see how that would be viewed as a mistake) to reach the people who enabled this. I am looking for a new job. I am giving up my other jobs that I am not contractually obligated to at this point. I will move where've Matt goesto keep up, what I hope will be joint custody, or at least frequent visitation with my son. I don't care what it takes,
> 
> *You all can continue bashing.*Drama queen again..
> You perhaps´s feel that way.But you are not being bashed
> so people can have outlet,for there own pain..People get banned
> from this forum pretty quick for that kind of behavior...
> 
> I'm sure it feels good to have an outlet for the pain and betrayal you went through. *I will keep looking for useful knowledge, tips, and insight between all of the rest.* People have been trying to give you that.But instead of listening .You claim people are bashing you..
> 
> 
> You can't see me, don't really know me, and I can never fully communicate what we are going through. *Believe what you want about me. Tell my husband I am heartless narcissistic *****. Tell him our son needs a paternity test. I know who I am and what I have done. I can never outlive the pain I see on the face of the man I have loved for most of my life.*
> The drama act.Is getting old..
> 
> 
> For those of you who have given me honest thoughts, suggestions, and resources, I am very grateful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60

Dr. M 

Please give her what she wants - a life without you in it.


----------



## MrMathias

WorkingOnMe said:


> Let me guess....she hasn't given you a bj in years has she?


Day before yesterday actually. The sex has not been bad over the last months. 

I feel filthy and am getting tested.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Yep reading this forum today I think the feeling there was something ungenuine about her was picked up by most people.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Well, that's a relief. Assuming it doesn't come with a case of herpes.


----------



## MEM2020

Working,
I like you - and your posts. This is not constructive in any way. 




WorkingOnMe said:


> Well, that's a relief. Assuming it doesn't come with a case of herpes.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Sorry. Commiserating with the good doctor.


----------



## Acabado

> Originally Posted by Mrs_Mathias View Post
> I have been 100% honest... the last trickle truth was Sunday morning when I confessed having been the one to renew contact and the book exchange. I have spent so long censoring my statements or simply not communicating because i was afraid of the negativity (projected or not). I cannot do that anymore.


So convincing...
Busted, again.
Will you ever get it?
Loves control.


----------



## Acabado

DrMathias said:


> Day before yesterday actually. The sex has not been bad over the last months.


Only collateral effects and damage control.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

The Mrs posted this yesterday, defending how the R was progressing

How does what I wrote possibly make me look better? That's an honest question. I feel like I am really trying to acknowledge my selfishness and total disregard for Matt. I guess it's not something that I can currently communicate well or fully grasp, since D-day #2 was Saturday night. I appreciate the people giving honest feedback, and I actually appreciate hearing/feeling the pain and lashing statements from other BS's. I knew coming here that this would be the primary environment I faced, and I need and want people to call me on my crap.

In addition to the list above, since Saturday I have called and apologized to my toxic friends for putting them in the middle of this situation. I have not pursued any further sympathy or contact with them. I have called and spoken to several friends and told them of the situation. I have continued to work, and leave the house as needed for my contractual obligations, but I have not alotted any additional time that was not absolutely necessary.

I think a lot of assumptions are currently being made about our situation because my posts have primarily dealt with the situation pre-D-Day #2. So there are certainly no grounds to show what I am doing currently. I will work on posting an update.

Yes, the R is going well. 

Answers such as this appear to indicate that she is indeed Arrogant and feels a sense of entitlement and does not have to answer for her actions and whatever she says should be taken as gospel. The heck with the truth as long as Matt does not know the R will be going well.

Sorry Matt. Many on this thread saw the writting on the wall but I believe a lot of those who saw the writting hoped that somehow that was not true and that you would be one of the few lucky ones who actually had someone who really cared and wanted to R.


----------



## SoulStorm

wow...opera and theatre sure are your calling. Great acting Mrs. M..or should I say great lying.

I feel bad ..really bad for Dr. M. She is very convincing about it being only one time. Three strikes?? I'm guessing it could be three hundred more.


----------



## MattMatt

Bloody hell, doc. Your wife is very, what should I say, theatrical, isn't she?

Drama and lots of it. 

So sorry for you, Doc.

Mrs Mathias, I do not know what, exactly, you think your husband did to deserve what you did to him, but I think you have done enough damage to him, now. You can stop hurting him. OK?


----------



## SoulStorm

I don't really believe in divorce, but this is an exception. Your poor BH, if you told him the sky was blue..he would have to go check.
Do you see now how credible anything you say after this will be?
More like incredible if it's the truth.


----------



## ilou

HAHAHA. Geeeeeeeez.....was your life so bad another man looked delicious?


----------



## Juicer

I don't think she is going to respond guys. 

This was just an Ally all over again.


----------



## Wazza

Dr Matt, sorry.


----------



## walkonmars

I was hopeful. Very hopeful. But ohhh so wrong.


----------



## Kasler

Fourth strike and out. Just like ally babe I posted 2 pages ago. 

All trickle and no truth. 

Sorry matt. And most people were picking up on it. 

I was more locked on to her selfishness so I didn't catch the compulsive lying. 

Both the selfishness and the lying stem from her need to control. Still trying to manipulate you after all this.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Guess it's clear why we couldn't sense remorse in her posts. She was still sucking on the crack pipe.


----------



## tom67

DrMathias said:


> She punished herself. I wasn't going to post in her thread, but who cares now?
> *
> DDAY 3 TODAY!*
> 
> *May:* I suspect an EA between WW and OM.
> 
> *Mid May:* Ruined romantic evening, confrontation about possible A. Denied by WW. "I don't think of him romantically. I would never do that to you."
> 
> *May 22:* OM kisses WW, she doesn't stop him.
> 
> *May 29: BJ and Cunnilingus in her office. *
> *June 1:* WW and I leave for NYC.
> *Mid June:* Texting, graphic Facebook messages
> *Early July:* Cybersex and two web shows
> 
> *July 17:* *First day back from NYC. WW gives OM BJ at his seedy crappy house.*
> 
> *July 17 Night DDay #1:* BGF slips me a Facebook account on a post-it note. I log in and confirm an A, the extent of which is not fully revealed UNTIL TONIGHT or EVER. Confrontation and sheer anguish.
> 
> *July 20:* R starts with WW calling to set up MC, seems genuinely remorseful
> 
> *Early-Mid Sept.* OM is seen walking down the street as we're driving to MC. Pretty big trigger for me. I later find out that WW felt torn, with worry for him, lust/love, and guilt. I would say this is the day the R became false. I knew she was not 100% with me then.
> 
> *Late Sept:* WW breaks NC by visiting OM at the drive through, and drops off books to ease his boredom*... they begin Skyping, using her office computer. *
> 
> *EARLY OCT:* *WW begins having intercourse with OM, perhaps six times over the next month.*
> 
> *Oct 31: *OM seen at a town parade. Massive trigger for me. WW seems distant, or like a deer in headlights. She doesn't appear to make eye contact.
> 
> *Nov. 2:* WW meets with OM with help of students, they have intercourse one last time???.
> *
> Continued Skyping.
> *
> *Nov. 12 or 14:* WW calls me crying from her office, saying she wants me to know she wants to work on us. I think she sensed that I was giving up or starting to look to greener pasture. She points me to some threads on this forum, even one where the WW ended up in D, but with good tips for R.
> 
> *Nov. 17: DDay #2:* BGF sends me a message and I discover that WW had seen OM again when she was out of town. WW denies sex, "only kissing".
> 
> *Nov.18:* WW confesses to her parents, after they urge her to stop lying she reveals that she had been breaking NC since Sept. I think this is the only thing she willingly divulged. I would never have found out I'm sure if she hadn't told me. it was obviously a severe blow.
> I make my first post here.
> 
> *NOV. 21 DDAY#3. After a phone call to the right people, I get some truth.* *Sex more than once. BJ and Etc. in office. Skyping.*
> 
> *WW calls to talk to son via Facetime*. I asked if she had anything else to tell me about the affair. She said no. I got her to admit that she had Skyped with CJ in the last four months. I then know everything else I heard from my sources is 100% true.
> 
> I tell her I already know the answers and to answer truthfully. I ask her a series of questions- how many times did you have sex? Where? The time you kissed before NYC, that wasn't it, was it?
> I rant at her on the phone for about three minutes. We call her parents, together, and she tells them everything I learned tonight.
> 
> I am devastated to the core. Words cannot express. Thanks to all the skeptics among you. This forum has saved me.


I am so sorry atleast my ex just left me when confronted no dog and pony show. Stay strong my friend I,m 2 years out and recovering.


----------



## Will_Kane

Will_Kane said:


> I thought I might have been the only one reading this thinking how improbable that there allegedly was only "one kiss" that spurred this whole affair.
> 
> Then after being caught, kept pursuing other man, when all they had done to that point was "kiss once."
> 
> Theoretically possible but completely UNBELIEVABLE.
> 
> Schedule the polygraph.


This was really not that hard to see coming.


----------



## Juicer

We are beating a dead horse at this point guys...


----------



## SoulStorm

Juicer said:


> We are beating a dead horse at this point guys...


I agree Juicer, but she may return. She's in opera and theatre..she likes drama.
I really believe you need some serious counseling and please stop lying to your therapists.


----------



## Wazza

Will_Kane said:


> This was really not that hard to see coming.


Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

Trickle truth SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the event she returns....well I can see how she thought it wise to lie and minimise it. It was dumb, and she knows that now. I hope. Though too late.

This is why I never feel the need to punish people on here. The ones who are sincere will come good, and the ones who are lying will trip up.


----------



## BjornFree

Acabado said:


> Only collateral effects and damage control.


Haven't you heard of the old trick. Men give flowers and women give blowjobs?


----------



## warlock07

warlock07 said:


> The one time you slept with the OM is the one time you got found out...
> 
> 
> Telling Matt that I slept with him more than once will only hurt him more. If I am lying, I am doing it for him.
> 
> Sleeping once or a few more times. What difference does it make? The hurt was already done.
> 
> Maybe I'll tell him more when things are better between us. Telling him now will end any chance of repairing the marriage.
> 
> I will keep lying to Matt if that is only chance my son has for a family.




Right!! Which one is her excuse now..

TAM was just another tool to manipulate Matt ?

Mrs, if your marriage ends after this , it is because of your repeated lies


----------



## BjornFree

warlock07 said:


> Right!! Which one is her excuse now..
> 
> TAM was just another tool to manipulate Matt ?


I believe the expression is called "Run with the fox and hunt with the hounds".


----------



## Shaggy

Fourth strike and I'm sure more to come.

She still owes her husband the real truth about the break up.


----------



## keko

Yeah, likely a few more guys before the current one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I'm guessing we might not be hearing from Mrs. much now that her even worse truths have come out. I can't help but think that she's right now in contact with the POSOM. Perhaps he's even there with her to help her through this latest round of truth.


----------



## Kasler

^ Pretty much. 

I can't see how she can play the tragic woman of a soap opera now.


----------



## bandit.45

She won't be back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Shaggy said:


> I'm guessing we might not be hearing from Mrs. much now that her even worse truths have come out. I can't help but think that she's right now in contact with the POSOM. Perhaps he's even there with her to help her through this latest round of truth.


Likely creating another round of "truth" to trickle.


----------



## warlock07

She won't be back but I am also concerned what too much trashing will do to her. We know she is not the most emotionally mature person and as much of a cheater and a liar she is, she is in clearly in distress whatever the reasons are.. I just hope she won't do anything stupid..


----------



## Lon

I just caught up with this thread, and was getting ready to offer my one piece of advice to her, be patient, that DrM will need months and months to process, but in affair fog, months become days to the wayward one. Too bad it was all for naught and that trickle truth claims yet another betrayed spouse. I'm sorry for the loss of your marriage Dr.M, it will take time but you can heal from this and have a fulfilling life again.


----------



## keko

warlock07 said:


> She won't be back but I am also concerned what too much trashing will do to her. We know she is not the most emotionally mature person and as much of a cheater and a liar she is, she is in clearly in distress whatever the reasons are.. I just hope she won't do anything stupid..


She is selfish. She won't hesitate to hurt others but as for herself I'm sure she's getting a tune up from the OM right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

warlock07 said:


> She won't be back but I am also concerned what too much trashing will do to her. We know she is not the most emotionally mature person and as much of a cheater and a liar she is, she is in clearly in distress whatever the reasons are.. I just hope she won't do anything stupid..


That's weird! I was hoping she might do something smart. She seems to have mastered the stupid part.


----------



## Broken at 20

Well... after reading how much can change in less than 24 hours, can't say I am surprised. 

If you are still reading this, Mrs. Mathias, I can tell you your future. 
Not because I am psychic or all knowing. (but I wish I was)

But because I see it every Tuesday/Thursday from 8-915 in my theater class.

Now, my theater teacher was also, once married. Now I don't know how her marriage broke down, but I imagine it comes from working a day that begins at 7 and goes until 10 p.m. or later. And never being home for your husband or your child. 

Now, what does she do?
She teaches theater at a community college, is divorced, her husband won't talk to her (I know because she complains about this all the time), her kid won't speak with her, and the only information she gets about her child is from facebook. She is a grandmother. But she never sees her grandchildren. Her kid won't allow it. 
But does she care? Hell yes she does! Now that is. 

Did she then? I doubt it, because she was to concerned about being able to do 90 hour work weeks for the school. On a teacher's pay, so they could produce plays and musicals every other weekend. 

Hope you made the choice you wanted. 
Hope theater is worth it to you. 

Because I bet if my teacher could change the past, she would.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Broken at 20 said:


> Well... after reading how much can change in less than 24 hours, can't say I am surprised.
> 
> If you are still reading this, Mrs. Mathias, I can tell you your future.
> Not because I am psychic or all knowing. (but I wish I was)
> 
> But because I see it every Tuesday/Thursday from 8-915 in my theater class.
> 
> Now, my theater teacher was also, once married. Now I don't know how her marriage broke down, but I imagine it comes from working a day that begins at 7 and goes until 10 p.m. or later. And never being home for your husband or your child.
> 
> Now, what does she do?
> She teaches theater at a community college, is divorced, her husband won't talk to her (I know because she complains about this all the time), her kid won't speak with her, and the only information she gets about her child is from facebook. She is a grandmother. But she never sees her grandchildren. Her kid won't allow it.
> But does she care? Hell yes she does! Now that is.
> 
> Did she then? I doubt it, because she was to concerned about being able to do 90 hour work weeks for the school. On a teacher's pay, so they could produce plays and musicals every other weekend.
> 
> Hope you made the choice you wanted.
> Hope theater is worth it to you.
> 
> Because I bet if my teacher could change the past, she would.


Mrs is much worse than a workaholic who put her job ahead of her family. She did that, and much more. She cheated and lied and cheated and lied. Then she brought her husband here to try to deceive him (and all of us) even more.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Except, I don't really think (before the latest revelation) there was that much bashing. 

Yes, many people called her selfish and narcissistic, including me. However, frankly, I consider that a DIAGNOSIS (or as close a you can do on a form) rather than a bash. If she really wanted a Reconciliation, then this could only occur if she confronted the person she is at her core. Although it looked at some level as bashing, I believe it was more of a "tough love" attempt at help.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Mrs_Mathias said:


> At this point, I don't even know what to speak about. I'm out of our home, trying to give Matt the space he needs. He does it want me to return after the holiday break. I have made arrangements to stay nearby. I am crushed and devastated without my son, and Matt. I know my actions haven't shown that, but how do I get time to demonstrate new actions??? It may b that I am still "in the fog" and would start rationalizing contact in a week or two. Alli know for certain is that after d-Day 1 I still felt confused/split whatever regarding OM and now I don't feel that. I don't wonder where he is or if he's ok. I want to be home with my family, taking care of them, bringing Matt soup and his favorite movies, and wrapping him up in the biggest blanket in the house and just trying to love him the way I should have all these past months. I want to just be there for him, to love away the hurt, insecurity, and total emasculation I put him through.
> 
> I have been an absolutely shytty excuse for a human being. I squandered everything that had any importance in my life. I don't care about the house, the things, a "cushy" life. I care about the man who made me the center of his world. I would give anything to go back and undo it. But I can't. I will go forward, because that's what we do as people. And people CAN and DO change. Or there would never be any R. Or any other relationships for WS after D. I am trying to execute actions that match my words. I let him take the lead, I left when he asked. I am texting him my location and who I am with. I have been in constant contact with my family and mutual friends. I have NOT made any effort (after my initial apology, which I can see how that would be viewed as a mistake) to reach the people who enabled this. I am looking for a new job. I am giving up my other jobs that I am not contractually obligated to at this point. I will move where've Matt goesto keep up, what I hope will be joint custody, or at least frequent visitation with my son. I don't care what it takes,
> 
> You all can continue bashing. I'm sure it feels good to have an outlet for the pain and betrayal you went through. I will keep looking for useful knowledge, tips, and insight between all of the rest. You can't see me, don't really know me, and I can never fully communicate what we are going through. Believe what you want about me. Tell my husband I am heartless narcissistic *****. Tell him our son needs a paternity test. I know who I am and what I have done. I can never outlive the pain I see on the face of the man I have loved for most of my life.
> 
> For those of you who have given me honest thoughts, suggestions, and resources, I am very grateful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

How easy to show remorse with words.........
Even laughing inside while writing it.
She is very cunning and cruel to use TAM to manipulate her husband into R, while she fucc around with her boy toy. 

Right now she may be banging OM.
*Shame on you lady shame on you.*


----------



## Kasler

Someone needs to sticky this.

Change the title to "Why words from a wayward mean nothing and actions mean everything"


----------



## Numbersixxx

DrMathias said:


> She punished herself. I wasn't going to post in her thread, but who cares now?
> *
> DDAY 3 TODAY!*
> 
> *May:* I suspect an EA between WW and OM.
> 
> *Mid May:* Ruined romantic evening, confrontation about possible A. Denied by WW. "I don't think of him romantically. I would never do that to you."
> 
> *May 22:* OM kisses WW, she doesn't stop him.
> 
> *May 29: BJ and Cunnilingus in her office. *
> *June 1:* WW and I leave for NYC.
> *Mid June:* Texting, graphic Facebook messages
> *Early July:* Cybersex and two web shows
> 
> *July 17:* *First day back from NYC. WW gives OM BJ at his seedy crappy house.*
> 
> *July 17 Night DDay #1:* BGF slips me a Facebook account on a post-it note. I log in and confirm an A, the extent of which is not fully revealed UNTIL TONIGHT or EVER. Confrontation and sheer anguish.
> 
> *July 20:* R starts with WW calling to set up MC, seems genuinely remorseful
> 
> *Early-Mid Sept.* OM is seen walking down the street as we're driving to MC. Pretty big trigger for me. I later find out that WW felt torn, with worry for him, lust/love, and guilt. I would say this is the day the R became false. I knew she was not 100% with me then.
> 
> *Late Sept:* WW breaks NC by visiting OM at the drive through, and drops off books to ease his boredom*... they begin Skyping, using her office computer. *
> 
> *EARLY OCT:* *WW begins having intercourse with OM, perhaps six times over the next month.*
> 
> *Oct 31: *OM seen at a town parade. Massive trigger for me. WW seems distant, or like a deer in headlights. She doesn't appear to make eye contact.
> 
> *Nov. 2:* WW meets with OM with help of students, they have intercourse one last time???.
> *
> Continued Skyping.
> *
> *Nov. 12 or 14:* WW calls me crying from her office, saying she wants me to know she wants to work on us. I think she sensed that I was giving up or starting to look to greener pasture. She points me to some threads on this forum, even one where the WW ended up in D, but with good tips for R.
> 
> *Nov. 17: DDay #2:* BGF sends me a message and I discover that WW had seen OM again when she was out of town. WW denies sex, "only kissing".
> 
> *Nov.18:* WW confesses to her parents, after they urge her to stop lying she reveals that she had been breaking NC since Sept. I think this is the only thing she willingly divulged. I would never have found out I'm sure if she hadn't told me. it was obviously a severe blow.
> I make my first post here.
> 
> *NOV. 21 DDAY#3. After a phone call to the right people, I get some truth.* *Sex more than once. BJ and Etc. in office. Skyping.*
> 
> *WW calls to talk to son via Facetime*. I asked if she had anything else to tell me about the affair. She said no. I got her to admit that she had Skyped with CJ in the last four months. I then know everything else I heard from my sources is 100% true.
> 
> I tell her I already know the answers and to answer truthfully. I ask her a series of questions- how many times did you have sex? Where? The time you kissed before NYC, that wasn't it, was it?
> I rant at her on the phone for about three minutes. We call her parents, together, and she tells them everything I learned tonight.
> 
> I am devastated to the core. Words cannot express. Thanks to all the skeptics among you. This forum has saved me.


Man, I cried when I read that. I am so sorry.


----------



## warlock07

The more I think about, the worse it is. She kept lying to anonymous strangers on how she had sex once with the OM and how she stopped it once she felt no spark...

A pathological liar and a delusional nut case. Even in the best case, you cannot trust this woman to make good decisions for your family or you


----------



## daisygirl 41

I don't know why people are so surprised . We all know cheaters will try to lie their way out of everything, claiming they are doing it to spare our feelings, the truth only comes out when they are faced with hard facts. Even then they try and work their way out of it.

Do any of us ever get the WHOLE truth about our partners As? I truly doubt it. 
It's early days for this couple. Everything is very raw. I think we need to be careful here! I've already seen WW being called a few choice names! Really? Is that helpful to the BH? No!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

daisygirl 41 said:


> I don't know why people are so surprised . We all know cheaters will try to lie their way out of everything, claiming they are doing it to spare our feelings, the truth only comes out when they are faced with hard facts. Even then they try and work their way out of it.
> 
> Do any of us ever get the WHOLE truth about our partners As? I truly doubt it.
> It's early days for this couple. Everything is very raw. I think we need to be careful here! I've already seen WW being called a few choice names! Really? Is that helpful to the BH? No!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Surprised? I guess never totally.

I can see how she dug herself into this hole and was struggling to get out. But the depth and repetition of her dishonestly is pretty major. How could trust ever be rebuilt?


----------



## daisygirl 41

Wazza said:


> Surprised? I guess never totally.
> 
> I can see how she dug herself into this hole and was struggling to get out. But the depth and repetition of her dishonestly is pretty major. How could trust ever be rebuilt?


You'd be surprised my friend!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WyshIknew

Wazza said:


> Surprised? I guess never totally.
> 
> I can see how she dug herself into this hole and was struggling to get out. But the depth and repetition of her dishonestly is pretty major. How could trust ever be rebuilt?


As with all these things it depends on;

A: How much, deep down he loves this woman.

B: How much her actions have hurt him and destroyed the love he feels/felt for her.

This is something that only he and she can decide.

So so sad. Why, just why?

Every time I read something like this I vow not to read any more on CWI and every time I relapse and get drawn in.


----------



## Wazza

daisygirl 41 said:


> You'd be surprised my friend!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





WyshIknew said:


> As with all these things it depends on;
> 
> A: How much, deep down he loves this woman.
> 
> B: How much her actions have hurt him and destroyed the love he feels/felt for her.
> 
> This is something that only he and she can decide.
> 
> So so sad. Why, just why?
> 
> Every time I read something like this I vow not to read any more on CWI and every time I relapse and get drawn in.


Look, love, I get that. Reconciliation...well I reconciled....and this story got me personally because my wife's affair partner was one of her college tutors.

Much as I hate trickle truth, I get why they do it...we all try to minimise the truth to get out of trouble.

But the brazenness of her lies, assuming what we saw is similar to what he saw....how would you ever be able to take her word again?


----------



## WyshIknew

Wazza said:


> Look, love, I get that. Reconciliation...well I reconciled....and this story got me personally because my wife's affair partner was one of her college tutors.
> 
> Much as I hate trickle truth, I get why they do it...we all try to minimise the truth to get out of trouble.
> 
> But the brazenness of her lies, assuming what we saw is similar to what he saw....how would you ever be able to take her word again?


I don't know. Perhaps you can't, something perhaps you will always have to deal with if you reconcile with a wayward spouse.
In my short time so far on TAM I have read stories of BS reconciling with WS following circumstances that have left me shaking my head.
Badmemory's thread springs to mind.

But I think in all the threads where true reconciliation is happening the affair partner has been in one way or another nuked out of existence as far as the two reconcilees are concerned.

I'm not sure that this is the case here at the moment. I suspect that the OM dumped her or they were aware that they were about to be exposed.


----------



## Numbersixxx

warlock07 said:


> The more I think about, the worse it is. She kept lying to anonymous strangers on how she had sex once with the OM and how she stopped it once she felt no spark...
> 
> A pathological liar and a delusional nut case. Even in the best case, you cannot trust this woman to make good decisions for your family or you


I think it is now obvious that she isn’t just surrounded with toxic friends. She is a toxic friend. Probably the worst of all (since she is also the oldest) and coaching others.


----------



## happyman64

Mrs_Mathias said:


> Thank you all for the feedback so far, it has been very thought-provoking. You have all made very good points about my total disregard for Matt, and the repeated opportunities that he has given me. There is absolutely nothing in my current history that shows I can/will change. Only time can show that. As I mentioned multiple times, I am proceeding with divorce with Matt. I have every intention of giving him what he needs/wants and making a custody decision that is right for the both of us. I will NEVER keep his son from him, he is a wonderful parent.
> 
> Regarding what I'm doing to be accountable to Matt, he has full access to all my phone/email/online accounts. I am absolutely willing to quit my job, to move to another city, to do whatever he needs. I am not trying to persuade him to keep me, I am discussing events as he wishes to bring it up or ask questions. I think it is ok for me to have hope, butd truly do want whatever is best for Matt to come out of this situation healed and with his self-respect.
> 
> Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if that transcendent connection had been there with OM when we had sex. Yes, it would have made things exponentially more confusing, and I should never have opened the door to that opportunity. I did NOT have a condom with me, but he did Yes, that is an absolutely abhorrent thing. Yes, I over-romanticize and need to get a grip on that emotional side of me. Yes, I was not thinking of my son or Matt in the least, and simply trying to find an end to my own *confusion*.
> 
> I will spend some time over the break going through the threads that have been recommended.


Hey Mrs M

I read all of your husbands thread and I am halfway through yours. 

And I have to say your H is a great guy that has his head on straight.

I wanted to make a few comments that I hope you will think about.

Like many others I have noticed the "I" and the "me" in many of your posts. That is understandable when you are explaining where you are coming from.

But you also keep saying you are confused or in a state of confusion.

But you are not reallyconfused. What you are is selfish. When you talk about your dedication to your work and how you completely fill your time with your work you come across as very passionate about your work. 

Then you discuss how when it came time to put some effort into your marriage (at DrM's request) you would always find something else that needs to be done at work before putting that effort into your marriage and family.

Then you enter into an EA and PA with the kid over your passion for work or love of your marriage/family.

*So I call BS on your confusion. I call BS on your passion. You are a selfish person.*

When two people fall in love and get married. In most cases they both work. But they make time for the marriage. They make time for each other. You do not do that.

Compound that by adding a child into that mix. Well most adults that are becoming parents and that also both work figure out a way add that child into their relationship and give equal time to that child. They coparent to the best of their ability.

They understand that for their child to develop they must take a part of their "self" that normally would go their spouse and give it to their child. That is what 2 adults that love each other do when a child comes into the picture and they want to raise that child together so it develops to the best of it ability with loving and nurturing parents.

You do not do that. Your passion is your work not your family. With the relationship you have with your family did it ever occur to you to take the summer off for your family. Or take on one less event or summer project so you would have a little more personal time.

To give Matt a break with the child rearing and help out as a family????

*So you are not confused. You are selfish.*

How selfish? 

-Selfish enough to throw yourself ino your job and passion than taking the time out to work on your marriage with Matt.

-Selfish enough to throw yourself at a student and develop an emotional and physical relationship instead of putting the time in to strengthen your marriage and family.

So do yourself a favor in IC. Work out your confusion.

Decide what your priorities in your life truly are.

Decide if you truly love your husband and child more than yourself and your career.

You can have both. You can be passionate about your career. But you can only love one more than the other.

I think DrM understands you better than you think. I know he is very clear on how selfish you have become in your life. 

He understands how little time and effort you have put into your marriage and family.

He also is very clear on how selfish your decision to have sex with the POSOM was and how he and your child never entered into your mind.

Well i hope your fog has lifted.

I honestly do not know if you can save your marriage. Or your family.

But if you focus on saving yourself and truly look at yourself in the mirror, you have the ability to become a good person again that could be selfless to the man that truly loves you and the child that truly needs you.

And who knows. Matt might give you a 2nd shot if he sees true remorse and that you have worked on yourself to be a better person.

*Because I think you and his family are his passion.....The old you that is!*

Good Luck

HM64


----------



## Numbersixxx

^Oh man, you really should have read the whole threads. She just got caught lying again here on this thread. She and OM had sex multiple times before, including oral sex in her office. This was her 4th chance and she nuked it!


----------



## bfree

I've read both threads. It just makes me sad beyond belief. Sadder still when I think of what her life will become. She had a good man and a good life and she threw it all away for nothing. Very sad.


----------



## warlock07

Now that I think about it again, she is no different than every other WS that trickle-truthed after her affair. Dig had it, AR had it, b1 had it. Only this happened live, in full view on this board. She lied to TAM, since she already lied to him. She dug herself into a hole to save this marriage by any means ... This was the exact line of thinking that got her into the position she is right now... 

All is not lost yet.

She still has a big role to play as a mother for her kid and can learn from this event to treat her close ones a little better..


----------



## bandit.45

Mathias needs to DNA the kid. 

I doubt this was her first rodeo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

A friend once told me that cheating was rampant in theater group he was in and that is usually the case. Maybe it is the nature of the job, since it requires a lot of bonding and the people involved are good looking. He was in the group for 2 years and every one of them involved was f*cking someone else in the group at some point whether they were in relationships or not..


----------



## daisygirl 41

warlock07 said:


> Now that I think about it again, she is no different than every other WS that trickle-truthed after her affair. Dig had it, AR had it, b1 had it. Only this happened live, in full view on this board. She lied to TAM, since she already lied to him. She dug herself into a hole to save this marriage by any means ... This was the exact line of thinking that got her into the position she is right now...
> 
> All is not lost yet.
> 
> She still has a big role to play as a mother for her kid and can learn from this event to treat her close ones a little better..


Exactly. She is NO different from any other WS. They ALL trickle truth, it just so happens this has all played out in real time! 
That's why I also say there is a chance to R but they are a hell of a long way off that yet!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## daisygirl 41

Wazza said:


> Look, love, I get that. Reconciliation...well I reconciled....and this story got me personally because my wife's affair partner was one of her college tutors.
> 
> Much as I hate trickle truth, I get why they do it...we all try to minimise the truth to get out of trouble.
> 
> But the brazenness of her lies, assuming what we saw is similar to what he saw....how would you ever be able to take her word again?


Because love, this is what they ALL do! It just so happens this is taking place in real time!
I repeat, she is NO different from any other WS !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

She knew better. She mentioned that she was on TAM months earlier reading other threads. She knew of the script that cheaters follow. She was the one that directed her husband to TAM. Knowing all this and then using the TAM crowd to help her keep the affair going makes it that much worse in my mind.


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> She won't be back but I am also concerned what too much trashing will do to her. We know she is not the most emotionally mature person and as much of a cheater and a liar she is, she is in clearly in distress whatever the reasons are.. I just hope she won't do anything stupid..


I hope she doesn't do something stupider too. She's on that downhill slide and there is no end in sight. The OM will be long gone soon. He has a whole life in front of him and its not going to be with an "old" woman. We all know the odds. 3 out of 100 for cheaters to manitain a relationship. Young male student with older female teacher? 0 odds. Its laughably tragic. How can an educated person be so ignorant of the way the world works?


----------



## aug

chapparal said:


> I hope she doesn't do something stupider too. She's on that downhill slide and there is no end in sight. The OM will be long gone soon. He has a whole life in front of him and its not going to be with an "old" woman. We all know the odds. 3 out of 100 for cheaters to manitain a relationship. Young male student with older female teacher? 0 odds. Its laughably tragic. *How can an educated person be so ignorant of the way the world works?*


It's theatre -- she lives in her own virtual world in her mind.


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Now that I think about it again, she is no different than every other WS that trickle-truthed after her affair. Dig had it, AR had it, b1 had it. Only this happened live, in full view on this board. She lied to TAM, since she already lied to him. She dug herself into a hole to save this marriage by any means ... This was the exact line of thinking that got her into the position she is right now...
> 
> All is not lost yet.
> 
> She still has a big role to play as a mother for her kid and can learn from this event to treat her close ones a little better..


For the last few years I keep hearing more and more of women walking away from their husbands AND kids. It is the wierdest thing imaginable for me to try and comprehend. I am guessing she will have little to do with her childs life. And, it will take a long time for her to figure out she has given up so much for literally nothing. The only thing she has to look forward to now is watching herself age in the mirror and nobody caring.

On top of that her husband will find someone wonderful.


----------



## aug

She's 36. She's still young. There'll be other young men for her in the next decade or so. She can enjoy them and then live on memories.


----------



## SadSamIAm

warlock07 said:


> Now that I think about it again, she is no different than every other WS that trickle-truthed after her affair. Dig had it, AR had it, b1 had it. Only this happened live, in full view on this board. She lied to TAM, since she already lied to him. She dug herself into a hole to save this marriage by any means ... This was the exact line of thinking that got her into the position she is right now...
> 
> All is not lost yet.
> 
> She still has a big role to play as a mother for her kid and can learn from this event to treat her close ones a little better..


And I hope she can learn from Matt's new woman. She will get to watch her family from the outside. Maybe she will learn what a mother and wife are supposed to act like. 

I have read many stories on here about infidelity. To me, this seems like the worst. I know you all say all cheaters do this. Trickle truth, etc.

But when it is typed out, it just seems more calculated. Where she had to come up with her 'story' of how she would try to sway people to take pitty on her. To see how she cheated, but it wasn't 'that' bad. I am sure she changed her story many times when typing it out to try to make her look better and better. Typing lie after lie. It is so calculated and cold.

And the worst thing is, is that she is so selfish, she didn't even see how her message came across. After having the chance to read it over and over before posting. 

I think it is true that a Narcissist is just not capable of understanding that the world doesn't revolve around them.


----------



## warlock07

She has been reading TAM for sometime..She must have known how bad TTs are.. 

but she just assumed she could lie her way out of it...the same issue she acknowledged repeatedly in her posts.

Mrs, if you are so ashamed of who you are as a person, why are trying to string your H with her ? How can he trust you even as a human being, leave about a life partner if you keep lying like this... You had some last bit of dignity as a wife to salvage by confessing what he did not find out from others.. but you squandered that chance too


----------



## Shaggy

Beyond the recent revelation of lies about sex. She has never honestly told why the affair supposedly ended two weeks ago.

Obviously it's not the lame story she said, about how they finally had sex it was bad sex. We now know they had sex for months and months. She was taking BC since the spring, so that's 7 months at least of sex.

So then why 2 weeks ago did the game change? Why did she supposedly come home from that hook up and proceed to get so emotional? 

We know it wasn't Dr.M that changed.

We know it wasn't guilt because she'd had NO guilt for the 7 months she'd been having sex with him.

So what changed? 

Did OM finally realize she was expecting more from him and he dumped her?

Did OM finally realize that 21 yr old can get a lot better looking women than a 36 yr old teacher?

Something changed two weeks ago and she still has not told the truth about what.


----------



## warlock07

I would be surprised if she confesses about it though..Lying and being selfish is one thing she has been very consistent about..


----------



## Numbersixxx

I think nobody bought her excuse that her sexual experience was not “transformative” and this is why she ended. Hell, I think nobody bought any of her stories. 

What I think happened is that OM's GF was about to found out and she went into damage control mode. She may have no regards or empathy for her husband or son, but she knows how society views cheating ex-wives and predatory teachers. She is about to loose everything and that is why she came up with this whole poorly conceived story posted here.

I said this before. She is not surrounded by toxic friends. She IS a toxic friend. She is also a toxic wife and a toxic mother.


----------



## MrMathias

Shaggy said:


> Something changed two weeks ago and she still has not told the truth about what.


I think that phase of the affair ran its course, and they both knew it. He was moving to a new school and town, she was starting to realize she'd jeopardized her real life and commitments. I really honestly think she was trying to relive and re-create our early relationship with him- carefree, bohemian, love, sex. She once said early in FalseR that "he reminded me of you" My response was "That's something you say when the person reminded of is dead or gone". That last night out-of-town was their moment to really be 'alone'. 

I know they would have continued to talk via Skype and see each other for PA when possible. Almost no one, certainly not people like them, cuts cold turkey with a connection that strong, although he might have been able to do it. No one will know if he felt love- I'm not sure she ever got anything but comforting words, attention, and entertainment. She certainly loved him. 

I may be wrong and she can correct me?


----------



## Numbersixxx

DrMathias said:


> I think that phase of the affair ran its course, and they both knew it. He was moving to a new school and town, she was starting to realize she'd jeopardized her real life and commitments. I really honestly think she was trying to relive and re-create our early relationship with him- carefree, bohemian, love, sex. She once said early in FalseR that "he reminded me of you" My response was "That's something you say when the person reminded of is dead or gone". That last night out-of-town was their moment to really be 'alone'.
> 
> I know they would have continued to talk via Skype and see each other for PA when possible. Almost no one, certainly not people like them, cuts cold turkey with a connection that strong, although he might have been able to do it. No one will know if he felt love- I'm not sure she ever got anything but comforting words, attention, and entertainment. She certainly loved him.
> 
> I may be wrong and she can correct me?


So the reason is that he moved on. Another school and another town.

I wonder if this is connected with her eagerness to change job and move from your current town - he was not there anymore, so there is no reason to stay.


----------



## life101

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me thrice strike and I kick you out of my life.


----------



## warlock07

DrMathias said:


> I think that phase of the affair ran its course, and they both knew it. He was moving to a new school and town, she was starting to realize she'd jeopardized her real life and commitments. I really honestly think she was trying to relive and re-create our early relationship with him- carefree, bohemian, love, sex. She once said early in FalseR that "he reminded me of you" My response was "That's something you say when the person reminded of is dead or gone". That last night out-of-town was their moment to really be 'alone'.
> 
> I know they would have continued to talk via Skype and see each other for PA when possible. Almost no one, certainly not people like them, cuts cold turkey with a connection that strong, although he might have been able to do it. No one will know if he felt love- I'm not sure she ever got anything but comforting words, attention, and entertainment. She certainly loved him.
> 
> I may be wrong and she can correct me?


Is she in contact with you ?


----------



## MrMathias

warlock07 said:


> Is she in contact with you ?


I had more questions, and she's been willing to answer. I'd really like to see her post the latest account of what really happened, but I haven't talked about this forum since last night and I don't know if she's visited again, or even will. 

She's coming back home tonight. We are going to have the sit down she tells everything talk, without interruption. Depending on my anger I may tell her to leave, as she has a place to stay nearby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

daisygirl 41 said:


> Exactly. She is NO different from any other WS. They ALL trickle truth, it just so happens this has all played out in real time!
> That's why I also say there is a chance to R but they are a hell of a long way off that yet!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My rule of thumb is that some people care about not cheating while others care about getting away with it. I could reconcile with my wife because she was in the first category and learned from her mistake. 

And yes, she lied, and trickle truthed. And to be honest I still don't have the ful truth of what happened...it was a long time ago, I know enough to put it behind me.

With Mrs M it was the brazenness of her lies here that got me. But ok, maybe she was caught in a lie and trying to carry it through.

Dr M, my thoughts are with you as you work though this. You know her. We will do what we can to support you. 

Mrs M, you last logged on about four hours ago so I guess you may log on again and read this. The only thing I can suggest is to talk to your husband, come totally clean, and work on yourself. You can't lie your way out of this. Hopefully you see that now.


----------



## Wazza

DrMathias said:


> I had more questions, and she's been willing to answer. I'd really like to see her post the latest account of what really happened, but I haven't talked about this forum since last night and I don't know if she's visited again, or even will.
> 
> She's coming back home tonight. We are going to have the sit down she tells everything talk, without interruption. Depending on my anger I may tell her to leave, as she has a place to stay nearby.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are very level headed sir and have my great respect.


----------



## Acabado

Shaggy said:


> Beyond the recent revelation of lies about sex. She has never honestly told why the affair supposedly ended two weeks ago.
> So what changed?





> *DrMathias*
> I think that phase of the affair ran its course, and they both knew it. He was moving to a new school and town, she was starting to realize she'd jeopardized her real life and commitments. That last night out-of-town was their moment to really be 'alone'.


Call me cynical.
I believe they both knew the news (arranged ONS with mutual friends of both) would eventually reach GF, who alreay tipped you the first time. GF was digging for the false R, OM-Mrs were perfectly aware of it, likely from cheerleaders mouth. The knew the end was coming and possibly started to plot the damage control/theatrical induced version (pun intented): Single ONS to find out whether luuurv was real after triggery encounter in the street.


> Almost no one, certainly not people like them, cuts cold turkey with a connection that strong, although he might have been able to do it. No one will know if he felt love- I'm not sure she ever got anything but comforting words, attention, and entertainment. She certainly loved him.


Ask her. I'm rather sure he was rescuing her from this demanding, controling, threater hater of a husband who never could understand her at an emotional level. Don't forget this kind of EAs are always excused by demonizing the busband and rewriting the story. Don't forget they were in constant comunication, shared the most intimate thoughs dayly, they always were in tune, right? Affairs are not relationships they have WITH their APs but AGAINST the spouse, that's a huge difference with legit relationships, a huge part of the "relationship" is fed by the triangle situation itself, so I'm sure every argument, every complain was shared, she had to guide him into filling what she perceived missing. Many affairs involves bashing the spouse to the AP, sharing shoirtcomings, unadecuacies... Ask her.


> I may be wrong and she can correct me?


Would she come back here? To any infidelity website?
I suspect bringing you here was not different (regarding her motivation) than setting up MC, going to IC.. all the while in complete false R. Smoke and mirrors.

Hope I'm wrong.


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## MrMathias

Acabado said:


> Many affairs involves bashing the spouse to the AP, sharing shoirtcomings, unadecuacies... Ask her.


 I already know that this happened, and to what extent. I'll see what she says this evening. 



Acabado said:


> Would she come back here? To any infidelity website?
> I suspect bringing you here was not different (regarding her motivation) than setting up MC, going to IC.. all the while in complete false R. Smoke and mirrors.


She preaches to her students about standing up, owning up to your mistakes, growing as a person, kicking addictions. Summoning the courage to face the music. Facing your fears. Accepting consequences. *Doing the right thing.* 

I am with many others- particularly students that know this happened to me- who wonder if she can travel the high road she points out to others on an almost daily basis.


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## warlock07

DrMathias said:


> I had more questions, and she's been willing to answer. I'd really like to see her post the latest account of what really happened, but I haven't talked about this forum since last night and I don't know if she's visited again, or even will.
> 
> She's coming back home tonight. We are going to have the sit down she tells everything talk, without interruption. Depending on my anger I may tell her to leave, as she has a place to stay nearby.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


she was here this morning... last activity was modifying some post


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## Acabado

T/J
Good Lord warlock07, how can we know this kind of things. Eveyone can? Isn't it Mods provilege?
End of T/J


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## Shaggy

Mrs_Mathias said:


> You all can continue bashing. I'm sure it feels good to have an outlet for the pain and betrayal you went through. I will keep looking for useful knowledge, tips, and insight between all of the rest. You can't see me, don't really know me, and I can never fully communicate what we are going through. Believe what you want about me. Tell my husband I am heartless narcissistic *****. Tell him our son needs a paternity test. I know who I am and what I have done. I can never outlive the pain I see on the face of the man I have loved for most of my life.
> 
> For those of you who have given me honest thoughts, suggestions, and resources, I am very grateful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually there hasn't been a lot of bashing - unless you call people point out things that smell like lies as being lies. 

That fact is you've lied and lied - and that's simply the truth.

You are continuing to lie - hopefully you may one day learn that lies do get discovered and the best way not to be caught in a lie is not to tell one.

Yet you chose to lie in the past and are still choosing to lie.

You had months of full on sex with the kid, even in your own office. You should be fired for that alone. You certainly should never be allowed to teach again. The last thing a parent wants when the sacrifice to send their kid to college is a predator teacher who will stoop so low as to have sex with their child. that's basic ethics and your actions reflect your lack of professional ethics.

My advice:

TELL THE TRUTH. STOP LYING.

completely tell the awful truth of what you've done. You chose to do it. You put enormous time and energy into doing it. Your husband deserves that much. You can't give him a happy home with a faithful wife ever again, but you can at least give him the full truth.


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## Shaggy

Acabado said:


> T/J
> Good Lord warlock07, how can we know this kind of things. Eveyone can? Isn't it Mods provilege?
> End of T/J


No just look at the persons profile and it says when they last were on.


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## Acabado

Thanks Shaggy


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