# Porn and dishonesty



## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Hello,
My husband has done something that has really hurt my feelings. We discussed pornography both before and during our marriage. We both agreed that it was something we would abstain from because of our moral stances. Recently I found a pornographic DVD and magazine in his sock drawer. I am hurt by this for few of reasons. First off he lied to me. If he wasn't going to abstain from pornography he should have been upfront with me. I could handle him having some differing opinions from me, I don't deal well with dishonesty. Secondly during our sexual encounters he would make unsolicited remarks about how he would never want pornography or another woman because I fulfill all his needs and fantasies. I feel humiliated for believing that he felt this away about me. I feel stupid for believing that I was good enough. The third reason I am really hurt is because when I asked him why he turned to pornography his answer was that he is bored with our sex life. I am always introducing new things into our sex life and whenever I ask him what he would like to do or wants me to try his response is always "nothing." I don't understand why he didn't speak up if our sex life wasn't meeting his desires. I don't understand why he did what he did and am having a really hard time moving past the hurt and no longer feel confident in my sexual abilities. Any advice is welcome.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My opinion on the matter is that men should be more up front about their desire to look at porn, and woman should be more understanding about their desire to do so.

'Agreeing' that neither of you would use porn is like 'agreeing' with your preteen that they will never try smoking or drinking. It sounds really good and all, but the chances of it actually happening are practically nil. It's just setting up for a fail.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm not blaming you, but just asking an honest question.

Do you provide for an environment where he feels he can change his opinion on something, or bring forward the fact he has desires for pron without getting in trouble?

Maybe he didn't want to hurt your feelings or start an argument and that's why he lied.

I don't think that was right of him to lie, and you should have open and honest discussions on all things in a marriage, so the fault lies with him. I just wonder if there's something preventing him from feeling comfortable about coming forward?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

cookiewarrington said:


> I am always introducing new things into our sex life and whenever I ask him what he would like to do or wants me to try his response is always "nothing." I don't understand why he didn't speak up if our sex life wasn't meeting his desires.


Because he's an jerk. I delt with this in my marriage, also. After I found out that my H had been lying and hiding porn what really hurt was that I had been stressing out about our sex life for months; I had been trying everything to try and spice it up and I got zero input from him. I thought he was just shy or was stressed, or whatever. There was a million excuses and I tried to find a solution to every one of them. Even after I found the porn I tried to incorporate it into our sex life, which didn't work either. The whole time he was just a body taking up space.

It's an extremely humiliating situation to be in. It's not one you would ever think you'd be in with someone who is supposed to love you more then anyone. The best advice I can give you, if you decide to stay in the relationship that is, is don't let him off the hook. No excuses. It doesn't matter if men are supposed to look at porn or not. That is completely irrelevant in your situation. It's also irrelevant if he felt he couldn't tell you. He's not five years old. He put you in an extremely vulnerable situation and lied to you again and again. It's got nothing to do with 'men-should-look-at-porn' and everything to do with how he's showing his love for you. Let him know exactly how he made you feel and don't let him make any excuses.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Here is some advice.

When I read your second sentence, it reminds me of "We decided we are going to visit my family every Christmas"... Like as in what "We" decided was actually what you (the wife) wanted and the husband just went along with it to make his wife happy. It's real easy for a woman to decide that "We" don't like porn... You really did not have to give anything up while your husband did have to make a sacrifice... So that agreement was not really fair and balanced in that sense... What if your husband wanted to agree that "We" decided to give up giving birthday presents (insert example of something you get pleasure from but he does not that is relevant to your marriage).

Regarding lieing about abstaining from Porn, there is a simple reason for this. He wanted you to think highly of him, stick with him, not reject him. Why did he not want you do do those things? Because he liked or loved you and wanted to keep you. This is not necessarily "right" to lie, but, think through why he would do that.

Now, your husband has responded to you in the dumbest of ways. But the thing is, there is reality and there is fantasy in life. In a fantasy, a man can channel all his sexual thoughts to one woman, and never get sexually bored with that one woman for 5-10-50 years. In reality, humans crave sexual variety and sex does tend to get boring with the same person for years on end in a marriage. This is natural. But does not mean your are not loved or cherished and does not mean that he is subbing porn for the type of fulfillment he gets from you. So your husband said this in a very insensitive way and for this he is an idiot, but I cannot say his feelings about porn or marital sex is abnormal. What he said was hurtful but the underlying reasons are not abnormal.

Why he would not speak up if your sex life was not meeting his desires, is he did not want to hurt you. And you are proving this out by the fact that you are hurt when you hear this.

My advice is your husband is certainly being stupid in the way he is handling this whole situation. But that in no way means he does not value you, desire you and love you. Many of the things he has done point to the fact that he does value you, desire you and love you. I could be wrong, maybe he does have negative feelings for you... .So you should try to have open dialogs with him about these feelings you are having, but take it from me if a man says something to you about how he feels, he means it. So if he says he loves you, values you, finds you sexually attractive, he means it.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> My opinion on the matter is that men should be more up front about their desire to look at porn, and woman should be more understanding about their desire to do so.
> 
> 'Agreeing' that neither of you would use porn is like 'agreeing' with your preteen that they will never try smoking or drinking. It sounds really good and all, but the chances of it actually happening are practically nil. It's just setting up for a fail.


Actually I did agree to never drink while living in my parents home as a teenager and I kept my end of the bargain. I would never agree to do something that I knew I wouldn't . If someone asks me to do something I know I won't I'm upfront about it. I'm learning though that while I grew up in a home where one could afford to be upfront and honest because even though there were consequences, love was never withheld, my husband did not. Although this makes sense in my head it doesn't do much to heal the hurt from being lied to. Thank you for your response. It really wouldn't be so hurtful if he had been honest. I can agree to disagree about pornography. Dishonesty is a different issue.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Porn is one of those things where if you are not keeping him satisfied he is going to look and many guys do look despite lying... I have come to this conclusion, they lie thru their teeth about it. better to just be honest but for some reason some guys refuse to admit it. Does he know you found it? Maybe ask him about it nicely and tell him, you concerns about your own sex life and how you don't have a problem with him going back on it, you wish he told you, however you do have a problem with him holding out on your answers to improving your sex life, and him seeking satisfaction from fake/acting sex.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I'm not blaming you, but just asking an honest question.
> 
> Do you provide for an environment where he feels he can change his opinion on something, or bring forward the fact he has desires for pron without getting in trouble?
> 
> ...


I believe I have provided an environment where it is safe to have disagreements. I'm learning through therapy though that he didn't grow up in an environment like that. I would never get him in "trouble." I don't have authority over him. Your point is valid though. He doesn't feel comfortable because of the enviroment he was raised in. However because I grew up in an environment where people were honest and straight forward even if they disagreed, I have no coping skills for dealing with dishonesty.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Blanca said:


> Because he's an jerk. I delt with this in my marriage, also. After I found out that my H had been lying and hiding porn what really hurt was that I had been stressing out about our sex life for months; I had been trying everything to try and spice it up and I got zero input from him. I thought he was just shy or was stressed, or whatever. There was a million excuses and I tried to find a solution to every one of them. Even after I found the porn I tried to incorporate it into our sex life, which didn't work either. The whole time he was just a body taking up space.
> 
> It's an extremely humiliating situation to be in. It's not one you would ever think you'd be in with someone who is supposed to love you more then anyone. The best advice I can give you, if you decide to stay in the relationship that is, is don't let him off the hook. No excuses. It doesn't matter if men are supposed to look at porn or not. That is completely irrelevant in your situation. It's also irrelevant if he felt he couldn't tell you. He's not five years old. He put you in an extremely vulnerable situation and lied to you again and again. It's got nothing to do with 'men-should-look-at-porn' and everything to do with how he's showing his love for you. Let him know exactly how he made you feel and don't let him make any excuses.


Thank you for your compassion. It feels good to finally have someone understand where I am coming from.


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## fish (Jun 12, 2011)

Blanca said:


> Because he's an jerk. I delt with this in my marriage, also. After I found out that my H had been lying and hiding porn what really hurt was that I had been stressing out about our sex life for months; I had been trying everything to try and spice it up and I got zero input from him. I thought he was just shy or was stressed, or whatever. There was a million excuses and I tried to find a solution to every one of them. Even after I found the porn I tried to incorporate it into our sex life, which didn't work either. The whole time he was just a body taking up space.
> 
> It's an extremely humiliating situation to be in. It's not one you would ever think you'd be in with someone who is supposed to love you more then anyone. The best advice I can give you, if you decide to stay in the relationship that is, is don't let him off the hook. No excuses. It doesn't matter if men are supposed to look at porn or not. That is completely irrelevant in your situation. It's also irrelevant if he felt he couldn't tell you. He's not five years old. He put you in an extremely vulnerable situation and lied to you again and again. It's got nothing to do with 'men-should-look-at-porn' and everything to do with how he's showing his love for you. Let him know exactly how he made you feel and don't let him make any excuses.


Something tells me your relationship had bigger issues than porn.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Well, then, if you only want people who agree with you, you should have posted that in your OP.

Look, I know exactly how you're feeling, because I used to feel the same way. And then, after my husband had 'permission' to look at porn and we even did it together quite a bit, what does he do? Goes on line and does it in secret AGAIN and gets himself into all KINDS of crap.

Many people think that porn is a gateway to worse things, and for some men that is very true (my husband included). But I would still never tell him he wasn't allowed to view it. Calling it an agreement or whatever. It's just setting him up to fail, so he knows he has to hide it, then you find it, and this is what happens. 

As for not drinking under your parents roof, good for you. You are a very rare breed.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Hicks said:


> Here is some advice.
> 
> When I read your second sentence, it reminds me of "We decided we are going to visit my family every Christmas"... Like as in what "We" decided was actually what you (the wife) wanted and the husband just went along with it to make his wife happy. It's real easy for a woman to decide that "We" don't like porn... You really did not have to give anything up while your husband did have to make a sacrifice... So that agreement was not really fair and balanced in that sense... What if your husband wanted to agree that "We" decided to give up giving birthday presents (insert example of something you get pleasure from but he does not that is relevant to your marriage).
> 
> ...


I do not think you understand what I mean. First of all we did decide it together. Also I was giving up something too. Some girls do like porn and this one likes girl on girl. However, I felt like I gave it up for something greater and haven't regretted it. I never force him into anything. I do not have that kind of power. Also I'm not hurt by the fact that he wasn't 100% satisfied with our sex life. I'm not always satisfied myself, so I voice what I want. I'm hurt that he was dishonest with me about his satisfaction. Especially that he made unsolicited comments about how satisfied he was. I appreciate your desire to help but most of your comments are irrelevant to this situation.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

cookiewarrington said:


> I believe I have provided an environment where it is safe to have disagreements.


Respectfully, what you believe is irrelevant - _his_ belief is what determines whether or not HE believes it's safe to disagree with you.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> Respectfully, what you believe is irrelevant - _his_ belief is what determines whether or not HE believes it's safe to disagree with you.


I agree 100%. I should ask him if any of my actions make him feel like he cannot disagree with me. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

makes me laugh that men giving up porn is considered a "sacrifice".


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> As for not drinking under your parents roof, good for you. You are a very rare breed.


LOL I am one of those rare breeds... I never touched a drop until NYE 2009. That was my very first taste...at the age of 34. My mother-in-law had a mixed drink and offered me a sip. I liked it, but never had any after that until last November...even that was only because I had a toothache, couldn't see a dentist right away, and I needed something to dull the pain. Personal choice that my husband and I made...no drinking. And, those few sips I have taken in recent years, he doesn't hold against me.

As for porn, I have stated many times that we BOTH made the choice of "no porn" in our marriage. It wasn't about giving it up. We had both viewed it in the past, but it was of no interest to us. So, we have both stuck by that agreement. Neither of us has a desire to view it. We BOTH prefer movies/videos with an actual plot. :lol:


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Ladies, good luck finding a guy that truly doesn't look at porn. Plus, i hope you've also made the decision to not read romances, that are the female equivalent to porn. If you didn't, then you played your hubbies.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Porn and hiding it USUALLY go hand in hand. Maybe if they wouldn't hide it and lie about then maybe things would be a lot different.. Crap i wanna watch!!

I also dealt with this a lot in my marriage. But he chose the crap over me. So big problem.. If we do work things out it will never again be allowed in this house ever again. Period.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

costa200 said:


> Ladies, good luck finding a guy that truly doesn't look at porn. Plus, i hope you've also made the decision to not read romances, that are the female equivalent to porn. If you didn't, then you played your hubbies.


I don't read them, i have a pretty good imagination with out reading "romance novels". And i don't watch porn either. I have enough sexually thoughts running through my head all the time, I don't need anymore!


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

lisab0105 said:


> makes me laugh that men giving up porn is considered a "sacrifice".


Really? Okay...I don't want you to watch romance movies or read romance novels. Would you not see that as a "sacrafice"?

Women are mentally stimulated, men are visually stimulated. If you refuse to see that or accept that, you have some maturing to do. 

The problem here is not WHAT he was viewing, but that he did not have the BALLS to be honest about it. Personally, it's easy for me. I don't lie about anything that my significant other may find important. So, she either realizes I am a man and I get turned on by visions of naked women, and she is confident enough in herself (that's KEY) that it doesn't matter and it's not a threat to her...or she is not. In which case, I've found, insecure women carry so much more baggage that the "battle" over stupid, insignificant things like porn would be the least of my worries.

Then again, I've never chosen porn over my W, so maybe that's where I'm different. Porn addiction can be an issue and is not what we're talking about here. What we're talking about here is a woman who feels that a man looking at any other female is an affront to her. Fine, if that's how you feel, then YOU give up the bullchit, unrealistic romance novels and movies! Just because you don't understand that men are visual (but you do understand it when it suits you, hence the getting all dressed up, makeup, tight clothing to accentuate figure, etc), does not make it wrong any more than the women are wrong for "needing to feel mentally connected" (your partner romatasizing the hell out of you).

Honesty and having the backbone to be a man and not lie are the issues, not looking at "boobies" on the internet. If your "man" can't "man up" and admit to you what virtually EVERY MAN ALIVE does...it's time to look for another "man". Either that or a "mouse" you can browbeat into not being a man (but that will carry a multitude of so many other issues you're screwed anyway). I can look at the hottest, naked women on the planet on the internet. Strange how none of them hold a candle to my "averagely bodied" but yet confident and mature wife.


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## Henri (Jun 30, 2012)

lisab0105 said:


> makes me laugh that men giving up porn is considered a "sacrifice".


It amazed me too that I had that same view until I finally change my perception and stopped. It is still very difficult and I have compassion for anyone trying to overcome it.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

cookiewarrington said:


> W_*e discussed pornography both before and during our marriage. We both agreed that it was something we would abstain from because of our moral stances. *_ Recently I found a pornographic DVD and magazine in his sock drawer. I am hurt by this for few of reasons. First off he lied to me. If he wasn't going to abstain from pornography he should have been upfront with me. I could handle him having some differing opinions from me, I don't deal well with dishonesty.


Had your H told you prior to getting married that he enjoyed watching porn and would continue to do so, given your moral stance on the subject, would you have still married him? 

My point is, we make decisions based on the information at hand and, IMO, it is wrong to deceive someone about an issue that is important to them, then simply expect them to accept / deal with it later.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I still think you husband is acting normally and you should not lose confidence in you sexual abilities or let this harm your marriage. You are a perfectionist, and he is a regular guy.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Hicks said:


> Here is some advice.
> 
> When I read your second sentence, it reminds me of "We decided we are going to visit my family every Christmas"... Like as in what "We" decided was actually what you (the wife) wanted and the husband just went along with it to make his wife happy. It's real easy for a woman to decide that "We" don't like porn...



I so very much agree with this, let me give you another perspective here... I used to be a "Good girl"- my husband is the most wonderful man -in how he has treated me from day one, I couldn't ask for more... I used to be very " conservatively moral"... guess what.... I thought porn was disgusting - ewweeee, seeing those willys & people going at it like Mad, I couldn't for the life of me think that could turn anyone on. Didn't get it [email protected]#$%^ And I used to catch him in the early morning looking at naked women online (solo pics), I even cried a few times thinking "I am not enough for him"....which made him feel terrible. I used to even to tape scriptures to his computer screen about how God feels - I was a pain up the a** really. He would try to stay away for a time but he would fall back into looking, he wasn't going to tell me !! 


Here is the fact of the matter, I didn't GRASP the male sex drive, men are very very visual.. It doesn't mean they don't love you, but it sure means they need to hide it like He** - especially if the wife is a moralist who would never stand for it - and feel her husband is slime, belittle him, remind him of their agreement. 

Honest to God, mine has NEVER lied to me about anything, but In this area, he did SNEAK... If I outright asked him, he would tell me but he was not going to advertise it. Why should he, so I would start balling and ranting to him. SO I could throw the judgement of God on him. No....we have to be APPROACHABLE with our men, to allow them to speak ...trying to see where they are coming from...to allow them the freedom to feel "safe" in expressing their feelings, all of it. He is going to feel so very uncomfortable doing this with you at this point, he may never open up, which is a shame really . 

Because men have 10 times more Testosterone flowing through their bodies (this is our LUST hormone), they near can't help but be drawn to the female form. Blame God for this one, why did he do [email protected]#$%^&* I have 3 books on my shelf about TEST... the higher a man is in this, almost the more he is DRAWN to it... Thank god your husband is healthy. And if he is not neglecting your sex life, (are you totally satisfied ??), then praise God some more. 

Then I got a taste of this.... when I hit *my prime *a few yrs ago, I started to LOVE Porn, if My husband was against it (I think I would have knocked his head off)... I even started to rent the darn stuff... LOVED it....and here is the kicker... when my sex drive calmed some, so did that intensity to set my eyes on it. Hormones can do this to you... I am living proof... In no way, shape or form did that affect how I felt about my husband, my love for him, he got quite the charge out of me loving porn....and alot more sex... we watched it togehter, had a good ol' time. 

I liked it more than him! I have read a number of books on Hormones, how they affect your mind, I don't care how religious and moral you are, those darn hormones are going to have you be attracted and drawn to beautiful nakedness. It is surely an amazing thing. BUt it doesn't mean your husband doesn't love you, isn't attracted to you. 

Now if he is masterbating to porn and ignoring your needs, this is another situation all together.. 

I highly advise you both to order this book ...read it together...

: Love and Pornography: Dealing with Porn and Saving your Relationship : Books

It is about a couple who almost divorced over the PORN issue, but the wife decided to HEAR HER HUSBAND OUT fully.. without putting words in his mouth ..... and he , in turn LISTENED TO HER fully.... I believe in the end, he does give it up (I bought the book out of pure curiosity but never got to the end)... so this book is no way is trying to say.... PORN is OK...that is not the point... the point is Open communication ...understanding one another, listening to each other... 

Many loving couples with thriving marraiges enjoy a little porn together, I understand this is not for everyone, but don't think that such couples can't love each other with all that is in them, or think that every man who slips here is not a loving husband -just isn't true, why torment yourself like that. 

Listen to your man. Hear him, learn of the male sex drive, it's effects on the brain. Have a little compassion. Harping on him will only get him to sneak, hide, lie and feel ashamed and judged by you.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

donny64 said:


> Women are mentally stimulated, men are visually stimulated. If you refuse to see that or accept that, you have some maturing to do.
> 
> The problem here is not WHAT he was viewing, but that he did not have the BALLS to be honest about it. Personally, it's easy for me. I don't lie about anything that my significant other may find important. So, she either realizes I am a man and I get turned on by visions of naked women, and she is confident enough in herself (that's KEY) that it doesn't matter and it's not a threat to her...or she is not. In which case, I've found, insecure women carry so much more baggage that the "battle" over stupid, insignificant things like porn would be the least of my worries.
> 
> ...


I LOVE this post, agree 100%.... how many women don't love a HOT romance... They have turned me on so bad - I would chase my husband down, I recall reading a few pages of those books and near be dripping for sex...even in my conservative days. I felt a little 'dirty" reading that smut, but looking back, I think I should have read some more ! If a woman doesn't get turned on by this, I would think something was wrong with her...and yeah, any man who says he is not attracted to the female form is outright lying to save face. 

My husband feels exactly like You Donny64..... and I love him for it. He is a lower test guy (I wish his levels were a bit higher darn it )... the day he no longer finds other women attractive, is the day I know he will need Treatment.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I am mentally and visually stimulated, I however prefer to get this stimulation from my partner. Both men and women can choose that if they want.

Saying giving up porn is a sacrifice is ridiculous IMO, this would mean access to porn is a birth right, something men are entitled to and need to function, totally bogus of course, in fact pron has been proven to be very harmful to men and women, it changes the neural pathways in the brain, changes expectations and pleasure receptors, can cause such a myriad of problems.
Men no more have to watch porn then I have to run off with young good looking wealthy men. 
A mutually exclusive healthy sex life can be awesome and very satisfying.
Also comparing asking someone to not watch porn and not celebrate Christmas or whatever is ridiculous too, porn is about sex it does harm relationships, it does cause huge marital problems and is bad for self esteem and do so many things to the brain, including interfere with human pair bonding. It can be likened to cheating. 
It also doesn't mean you don't notice attractive people etc, it just means you take your energy and focus your sexual energy on your spouse. Simple really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I literally laugh out loud EVERY time someone compares porn to romance novels/movies. What a crock of sh!t! If I were ever to read / watch such drivel in the first place, would I be hiding it in my sock drawer? Doubt there'd be a need to do so. However, guys who continuously lie and hide porn use, *and* withold sex from their partners have a problem. Wish to hell more of you would realize that.

You're not alone, OP; sadly my 48 year old husband is struggling to this day, with a habit he's had for well over 30 years. Thankfully, we're overcoming the problems it has caused in our marriage, and things are getting better everyday. Hang in there.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

CandieGirl said:


> I literally laugh out loud EVERY time someone compares porn to romance novels/movies. What a crock of sh!t! If I were ever to read / watch such drivel in the first place, would I be hiding it in my sock drawer? Doubt there'd be a need to do so. However, guys who continuously lie and hide porn use, *and* withold sex from their partners have a problem. Wish to hell more of you would realize that.


Yes - this is true with an outright addiction that has taken someone down. I visited a sex addiction forum for a time, it can be a REAL battle. But it doesn't sound like cookiewarrington's husband has that type of issue at all. He sounds like a man who is afraid to speak how he feels so he has went into hiding. 

Maybe she will want to give him this book... Every Man's Battle: Winning the War on Sexual Temptation One Victory at a Time 

I am not niave enough to think that PORN is never harmful, there is a balance in all things. Some women browbeat their men over something that isn't much of an issue at all....Life is good.... and some men ought to be LEFT over this issue or in a Sex addiction program at the very least....

And some men can look upon a little porn since they are 11 yrs old (my husband had 300 playboy magazines under his bed)....and never become addicted like that or neglect their wives for a day.....so the issue is not Black and white by any means. 

Cookiewarrington will have to decide where her husband falls.....we can only offer up our own stories of marriage & how we delt with the Porn plague. And not all forms of porn are the same either....the more Hard core it is , the more concerning it would be also. My husbands flavor has always been very very tame. I am thankful for this.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> I literally laugh out loud EVERY time someone compares porn to romance novels/movies. What a crock of sh!t! If I were ever to read / watch such drivel in the first place, would I be hiding it in my sock drawer? Doubt there'd be a need to do so. However, guys who continuously lie and hide porn use, *and* withold sex from their partners have a problem. Wish to hell more of you would realize that.
> 
> You're not alone, OP; sadly my 48 year old husband is struggling to this day, with a habit he's had for well over 30 years. Thankfully, we're overcoming the problems it has caused in our marriage, and things are getting better everyday. Hang in there.


Compare it to whatever you feel is the female equivalent then. While you yourself may not like romance novels or "chick flicks" many women do. And many women are eager to watch them/read them. There's a reason those things are so popular and it's not because guys are lining up to watch The Notebook.

Now, if you asked those women who do go to suddenly stop watching any movie described as a chick flick, don't you think they'd consider it a sacrifice? 

There may be more men who watch porn than women who go to chick flicks, I honestly don't know which is more, but I'd venture to say a lot of women would say being told they can't watch a good romance movie would be unfair and a sacrifice.

Just because to men porn is the equivalent of a romance movie doesn't mean we are lesser people or that our own sacrifice (not watching porn) should be deemed less valuable.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Compare it to whatever you feel is the female equivalent then. While you yourself may not like romance novels or "chick flicks" many women do. And many women are eager to watch them/read them. There's a reason those things are so popular and it's not because guys are lining up to watch The Notebook.
> 
> Now, if you asked those women who do go to suddenly stop watching any movie described as a chick flick, don't you think they'd consider it a sacrifice?
> 
> ...


Not that I'm into them, but I doubt that chick flicks and romance novels objectify men in quite the same manner that porn does women. I can't remember seeing a chick flick where there's a close up of a man's penis, let alone an ejaculating one, and I doubt that many women use chick flicks or romance novels as tools for masturbation, which isn't the case with porn.

Saying that chick flicks and romance novels are the same as porn is pretty disingenuous, IMO.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Not that I'm into them, but I doubt that chick flicks and romance novels objectify men in quite the same manner that porn does women. I can't remember seeing a chick flick where there's a close up of a man's penis, let alone an ejaculating one, and I doubt that many women use chick flicks or romance novels as tools for masturbation, which isn't the case with porn.
> 
> Saying that chick flicks and romance novels are the same as porn is pretty disingenuous, IMO.


It's not the objectifying we are talking about here. We are talking about sacrifice.

What men get out of porn and what women get from chick flicks are differnt things, but in terms of sacrifice, I'm sure some men and women would argue they rank the same. 

I never said they were the same, I said they are equivalent in terms of their respective value to the respective gender (IMO of course).


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

costa200 said:


> *Ladies, good luck finding a guy that truly doesn't look at porn.* Plus, i hope you've also made the decision to not read romances, that are the female equivalent to porn. If you didn't, then you played your hubbies.


Found one, but thanks for your concern. 

Regarding the "giving up romance movies is the same as giving up porn". No, my giving up romance movies would be the equivalent of my husband giving up action movies, or horror type. Giving up romance books is a non-issue for me as well as I don't read them. 

The CLOSEST my husband gets to watching porn is watching shows like Game of Thrones and True Blood. But, we watch those together. And, I am well aware those are not porn.

Whether you, or anyone else believes it or not, my husband CHOOSES, of his own free will, not to view porn. HE brought up the subject in the first place. So, yea, men like that DO exist. I think they are afraid to step up because of pressure from others, mostly friends, who will rag on them about the whole thing.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

What i get from reading the posts of some women here is that you want men to stop getting excited by the things that excite them and want them to get excited by the things you find exciting. 


Sorry to brake it to you but you probably would not like the result. Because if you can find a guy like that you probably have some sort of closet homosexual in your hands.


A clear example is something like this:



> I can't remember seeing a chick flick where there's a close up of a man's penis, let alone an ejaculating one, and I doubt that many women use chick flicks or romance novels as tools for masturbation


Yes, because women aren't men and vice-versa. The same reason why a woman doesn't need a penis pic is the reason why men don't need no romantic plot leading to a sexual situation. they only need the visuals.




> What a crock of sh!t! If I were ever to read / watch such drivel in the first place, would I be hiding it in my sock drawer?


If you make me hide my porn in the sock drawer you better hide you romantic drivel in whatever out of sight corner. The reason why men hide porn is because women feel threatened by it. Where as most foolish males don't feel threatened by romantic novels, when perhaps they should.

Ladies, your guy watching porn isn't a problem. Your guy not paying attention and fooling around with other women is. 

I'm not a huge porn consumer. I watch at some boobs sometimes, specially if my eyes are driven to it when i'm searching for unrelated stuff. But that will never be a threat to my relationship. 



> I visited a sex addiction forum for a time, it can be a REAL battle.


"Sex addiction"... Yet another invention of some mental health professionals to earn some bucks. And is now being used by slime balls that cheat on their partners to justify the cheating. 

"i can't help myself honey, i have a sex addiction, i can't control it, Doctor Quack told me so..."

Plus, it seems to be an american phenomena. Apparently there are no sex addicts in Europe, Asia or Africa etc. 

Can't wait for the next great psychological breakthrough... Maybe "breathing addiction", or "sleeping addiction". 

The thing is, people are using the word addiction around because it voids their responsibility in their actions.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> Whether you, or anyone else believes it or not, my husband CHOOSES, of his own free will, not to view porn. HE brought up the subject in the first place. So, yea, men like that DO exist. I think they are afraid to step up because of pressure from others, mostly friends, who will rag on them about the whole thing.


You lucked out. That's incredibly rare.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Yes, because women aren't men and vice-versa. The same reason why a woman doesn't need a penis pic is the reason why men don't need no romantic plot leading to a sexual situation. they only need the visuals.


Ahh, but you don't know that, Costa. The thing is, full frontal male nudity is pretty rare, and it's my guess that men would be singing a very different tune if it became the norm and women started ogling, commenting on and masturbating to images of men's penises..


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Are any of the women here opposed to just "visual stimulation for masturbatory purposes" as opposed to "porn."

That is, you find husband jerking off to Playboy - same reaction you'd have if he was looking at internet boy-girl porn? 
You find husband jerking off to Victoria's Secret/SI Swimsuit Edition - same reaction as you'd have if he was looking at porn?

I think most guys on this forum probably didn't have easy access to porn growing up. I'd also bet that most guys on this forum masturbated anyway, with whatever sort of visual stimulation that they could scare up (or pornographic mental images they could conjure up). I know, personally, that I probably masturbated *more* as a teenager, before I had access to internet porn. That's the jet fuel of hormones.

I think the focus on "porn" is a little misplaced in all these discussions - hardcore (or softcore) porn is just one point on the continuum of sexy things that help guys get aroused and release. When we don't have that, we look at something else that's visually stimulating. Or we imagine stuff - and no, it's not always the wife or girlfriend we're imagining. 

I'd just like more women to understand how fundamental and powerful men's sex drives are, apart from the "porn" debate that's always going on in here. We can't turn it off. We can't say "Brain, only find one woman attractive."

I'd never cheat on my SO. That's a choice.
But, every single day, my brain tells me "OOOHH SEX. HER. SEX." - whether it sees a girl in a dirty picture or one walking down the hallways at school. 
That's not a choice. 

Looking at porn IS a choice, but it's part of something a lot wider than a lot people want to acknowledge. I can understand an objection to porn (no, really, I understand why people object to it) but I think sometimes it's implicitly made as an objection to male sexuality as a whole.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Ahh, but you don't know that, Costa. The thing is, full frontal male nudity is pretty rare, and it's my guess that men would be singing a very different tune if it became the norm and women started ogling, commenting on and masturbating to images of men's penises..


But they usually don't as they are not men. They use other ways to satisfy their needs. And the comments about "sacrifice" is the main point. If a guy has to let go of something that turns him on then his partner should reciprocate. It just so happens those things are different. 

It takes a pretty insecure person to feel threatened by such things. And i would point your attention to this right here:




> I think the focus on "porn" is a little misplaced in all these discussions - hardcore (or softcore) porn is just one point on the continuum of sexy things that help guys get aroused and release. When we don't have that, we look at something else that's visually stimulating.


The question is. What do you ladies want your partners to use? Some random internet pics or that hot neighbor next door that takes care of her house stuff in skimpy clothing?

Believe me, porn is preferable to that 100x. 

He is a guy. He likes women. He liked you didn't he?


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

costa200 said:


> The question is. What do you ladies want your partners to use? Some random internet pics or that hot neighbor next door that takes care of her house stuff in skimpy clothing?


I think the typical answer would be "neither." I've heard the phrase "Channel all of your sexual energy to HER" before. 

I understand what that means. I just don't think I could literally only find one woman physically attractive. I don't think only one woman could be the only one starring in fantasies in my head. If that makes me weak, okay. I don't think it makes me a cheater. I don't think it makes me much different from the average man.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

costa200 said:


> "Sex addiction"... Yet another invention of some mental health professionals to earn some bucks. And is now being used by slime balls that cheat on their partners to justify the cheating.
> 
> "i can't help myself honey, i have a sex addiction, i can't control it, Doctor Quack told me so..."
> 
> ...


I partly agree with this, but also please realize that there are those (like my husband) who ARE sex addicts. Just because sex addiction has become the flavor of the month does not negate the fact that it is a real problem for many, and that the treatments available do help many.

Oh, and my husband is the first to tell people that it is NOT an excuse. Anyone who uses addiction as an excuse is not in recovery, they're in denial.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

> Also comparing asking someone to not watch porn and not celebrate Christmas or whatever is ridiculous too, porn is about sex it does harm relationships, it does cause huge marital problems and is bad for self esteem and do so many things to the brain, including interfere with human pair bonding. It can be likened to cheating.
> It also doesn't mean you don't notice attractive people etc, it just means you take your energy and focus your sexual energy on your spouse. Simple really.


It can harm relationships with someone who has addiction to it. Saying no to it altogether is akin to saying "you can't drink beer. Beer does harm to relationships". Well, you're right....when there's an addiction or it takes away from from the relationship. Like, say, in cases of alcoholism (ADDICTION).

Who's self esteem is it bad for? That's right, the woman's. Because she's insecure and does not even want to understand the opposite sex. 

How does it interfere with human pair bonding? Because women are insecure and are trying to make men something they're not. And when the man doesn't respond, or goes "doormat" and hides what is a normal desire.

"Likened to cheating"? In who's mind? Are you cheating when you read the romance novel (or watch the romance movie)? And don't give me the b.s. that those are two different things, as they are not. *BOTH things create a near impossible ideal for your partner to live up to.* Women want to say they're different things because it suits them and the "men are pigs" mindset.

I understand some guys have problems with it and it affects relationships. Just like some guys have problems with booze and that affects relationships. Don't deny me boobs and beer because SOME other men have an issue with it. I've been looking at porn since I was a kid (as most men have), and have been drinking beer since I was 18. I have a problem with neither of those.



> I literally laugh out loud EVERY time someone compares porn to romance novels/movies. What a crock of sh!t! If I were ever to read / watch such drivel in the first place, would I be hiding it in my sock drawer? Doubt there'd be a need to do so. However, guys who continuously lie and hide porn use, and withold sex from their partners have a problem. Wish to hell more of you would realize that.


Not a crock. You think it's a crock because we're in a world where men and their desires are demonized at every turn, and women's desires are "normal". It's women who aren't secure and refuse to accept how men are, and trying to change us into women, that the "need to hide it in the sock drawer" even exists for some men. Not for me though. Then again, my W is secure, and I do not withhold sex from her or favor porn over sex with her. So I MUST be in the extreme minority I guess from the reaction I see most women have to porn. 

Maybe it's not porn that's the issue. It's that you're with a guy who has an addiction or can not man up and be himself as he folds to your will to make him a woman that's the issue.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

SoWhat said:


> I think the typical answer would be "neither." I've heard the phrase "Channel all of your sexual energy to HER" before.
> 
> I understand what that means. I just don't think I could literally only find one woman physically attractive. I don't think only one woman could be the only one starring in fantasies in my head. If that makes me weak, okay. I don't think it makes me a cheater. I don't think it makes me much different from the average man.



I don't think I could ever just find one man attractive, either, but I'd never make a point of letting my partner know this. Watching porn is not only hammering it home to a woman that her partner finds other women attractive (which is completely normal and natural), but how incredibly good they are at giving him orgasms.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I don't think I could ever just find one man attractive, either, but I'd never make a point of letting my partner know this. Watching porn is not only hammering it home to a woman that her partner finds other women attractive (which is completely normal and natural), but how incredibly good they are at giving him orgasms.


The quoted post was not an advertisement or endorsement for pornography. I was hoping to help bridge the gap between men and women's understanding of each others' sex drives. I'm advocating greater understanding and less criticism and a priori rejection.

The same goes for women-to-men; I think men need to be more accepting and understanding of the sorts of behavior that women find attractive, what turns them on, etc.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*but how incredibly good they are at giving him orgasms*

But, if you understand men... as much as women can anyway.... then you KNOW that every orgasm isn't about love and romance. It's JUST an orgasm. And "they" are just a visual tool, like the girl in a commercial, or the nightly news girl, or that lady in line at the check out. Has nothing to do with actually caring or wanting to get with them, or wishing that was his W. So it's not anyone in particular "giving him orgasms". 

I think the guys are really stating the case well here. :smthumbup:


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Ahh, but you don't know that, Costa. The thing is, full frontal male nudity is pretty rare, and it's my guess that men would be singing a very different tune if it became the norm and women started ogling, commenting on and masturbating to images of men's penises..


It's only rare if you aren't looking for it. Try going to Google and selecting images and 'naked men' It took me 2 seconds to see more male donks, slongs, nut sacks and rippling muscle than I ever wanted to see. Go under the search option and you'll find just as many webpages. It's not like finding naked men is hard.



Cosmos said:


> I don't think I could ever just find one man attractive, either, but I'd never make a point of letting my partner know this. Watching porn is not only hammering it home to a woman that her partner finds other women attractive (which is completely normal and natural), but how incredibly good they are at giving him orgasms.


So because a man can stimulate himself to an orgasm through porn, it's bad? What do women use as their image? Everyone uses something as an image. And if it's a mental image, that's just as bad as you're making porn to be unless it's your husband. It's still an image that's not your husband. 

Also, if you've never made a point of telling your partner this and sound proud of it, then how come men are bad for hiding their porn in the sock drawer as CandieGirl asserted? They are just not telling their wife, the same as you're not telling your husband. 

As others have said, men are more visual. I know I am. I can conjure up mental images to get off to, but it's much easier to view them playing out in front of your eyes. Just because we aren't as strong mentally as some woman seem to be doesn't mean we should be chastized for it. Men like porn, it's a common issue that's been around as long as porn's been around. What's with all the grief for it now?


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I partly agree with this, but also please realize that there are those (like my husband) who ARE sex addicts. Just because sex addiction has become the flavor of the month does not negate the fact that it is a real problem for many, and that the treatments available do help many.
> 
> Oh, and my husband is the first to tell people that it is NOT an excuse. Anyone who uses addiction as an excuse is not in recovery, they're in denial.


You're married to a sex addict? I see a lot of women in this board that would trade you their positions. The only thing bad about too much sexual things is when they start totally messing up their lives. Like not going to work and stay in your basement wanking to porn or something. But to call it an addiction... Well... That's new. 

If i hedonistically decide to do something that gives me pleasure instead of my obligations i have a problem, but to call it an addiciton is somewhat out of line. 

Imagine that i like to work on my car. If i spend way too much time on it while i should be unclogging the kitchen sink does that mean i have a "car tunning addiction"? Doesn't everything that you do that takes your mind from obligations an addiction in this case?

I think this is a word we should not throw around this lightly. 



> I think the typical answer would be "neither." I've heard the phrase "Channel all of your sexual energy to HER" before.


Hmmm yeah, that usually comes from the same sex gurus that can't keep it in their pants. There is no way a man or woman are going to just look at one partner. 

Anyone who claims this is outright lying. Studies indicates that people evaluate possible sexual partners upon meeting them for the first time. Timing eye movement made possible to determine that we need less than 1,5s to physically evaluate the physical attractiveness of a possible mate. And that goes for both sexes.

But this doesn't mean people act on it. 



> I don't think I could ever just find one man attractive, either, but I'd never make a point of letting my partner know this. Watching porn is not only hammering it home to a woman that her partner finds other women attractive (which is completely normal and natural), but how incredibly good they are at giving him orgasms.


Does you husband, on purpose, watch porn in front of you and makes those comments you're pointing here? If he does he is an abusive jerk. 

Most men don't flaunt porn in front of anyone. Women go out of their way to discover that GRAVE SIN by investigating him like a criminal. You think men want those women they see in porn? They are usually good looking women but men don't want to be with a pornstar most of the times (despite what some guys say without thinking). 

I think you're projecting some insecurity here.




> "Likened to cheating"? In who's mind? Are you cheating when you read the romance novel (or watch the romance movie)? And don't give me the b.s. that those are two different things, as they are not. BOTH things create a near impossible ideal for your partner to live up to. Women want to say they're different things because it suits them and the "men are pigs" mindset.



:iagree:



> Not a crock. You think it's a crock because we're in a world where men and their desires are demonized at every turn, and women's desires are "normal".


:iagree:

Look at this scenario for better understanding (I have seen this in the media countless times): 

-A bunch of guys go to strip club -> they are pervs

- A bunch of women have a girls night out in a male strip bar -> go girls, have some fun

- wife complains about strip club -> you tell him girl

- Husband complains about male strip club -> stop living in the 19th century dude, it was only fun and meant nothing.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You can read the full story of what my husbands addiction did to our lives through the link in my sig if you care to. 

Like I said, I agree with you that the term 'sex addiction' is thrown around far too often. Many DO use it as an excuse. But addicts get a 'high' from what they do, and as it becomes harder to reach their 'high' they seek more and more dangerous ways to get it. It's kinda hard to seek more and more dangerous ways to sleep, or fix your car (although I am sure someone could come up with a way it can - there's a show about strange addictions I believe). Those behaviours don't lead to more risky behaviours. Porn, internet chatting, masturbating, online hook ups, those behaviours can and do escalate. That's the difference.

And being a sex addict doesn't mean that you just want sex all the time. At least for my husband. For him, it means that when he feels isolated and alone he turns to sex as a way to cope.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

I feel we are derailing the thread. I'm pretty sure we will find another one to talk about this. :smthumbup:


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Threads get derailed here all the time


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Ok, back to the initial issue....



cookiewarrington said:


> Hello,
> My husband has done something that has really hurt my feelings. We discussed pornography both before and during our marriage. *We both agreed that it was something we would abstain from because of our moral stances.*


As others pointed out... this could go either way. While it is good that you discussed pornography, what was ACTUALLY discussed? Like, what is/is not porn? And, you say "moral stance"...meaning what, exactly? I can understand religious moral stance, from my point of view. But I guess I am wondering if you are coming from a different point of view? Also, did you SAY it and he just agreed? Or did he also state it, himself? There's a lot of ambiguity there.



> Recently I found a pornographic DVD and magazine in his sock drawer. I am hurt by this for few of reasons. First off he lied to me. If he wasn't going to abstain from pornography he should have been upfront with me.* I could handle him having some differing opinions from me, I don't deal well with dishonesty.*


I'm guessing this is really the issue right here? I mean regarding watching vs not watching. It's the lying, dishonestly. If it was truly a complete agreement, not him just placating you, it bothers you that he was dishonest about it...well, about everything, really! And, I can't blame you for that. I couldn't handle if my husband was dishonest about it either. I think I would be more hurt than angry, tho. And not because he was watching it, but more because he lied about it. No, he hasn't lied about it. There is none in the house, and he doesn't go anywhere LOL. So, I can see being angry/upset at the dishonesty. It is understandable.



> Secondly during our sexual encounters he would make unsolicited remarks about how he would never want pornography or another woman because I fulfill all his needs and fantasies. I feel humiliated for believing that he felt this away about me. I feel stupid for believing that I was good enough.


Don't feel humiliated or stupid. He chose to say those things because he, likely, thought that's what you wanted to hear. He wanted to make you happy. I can't understand the unsolicited comments tho. Perhaps a twinge of guilt on his part because he chose not to uphold the agreement you two made? 



> The third reason I am really hurt is because when I asked him why he turned to pornography his answer was that he is bored with our sex life. I am always introducing new things into our sex life and whenever I ask him what he would like to do or wants me to try his response is always "nothing." I don't understand why he didn't speak up if our sex life wasn't meeting his desires. I don't understand why he did what he did and am having a really hard time moving past the hurt and no longer feel confident in my sexual abilities. Any advice is welcome.


You said that you both gave up porn... You had no issue with it before, and neither did he. So, have you suggested watching it together, since he has shown he actually still would LIKE to watch, and you have no real aversion to it? Since he actually WAS bored, discuss ways to spice things up. If there was anything in it that he would like to try, but was afraid to suggest, would you try it? I think the reason he was afraid to speak up was because he didn't really cut porn out...At this point, i think he merely said it to placate you. Again, this is just my opinion. I may be wrong. But, don't let this make you feel less confident. Just try discussing what you can do to become MORE confident. He said there is "nothing" you can do to spice things up? I say try something anyway. Use YOUR imagination. 



Now, on the other subject.... sigh. 
Honestly, I think some of the reason men hide it IS because they are afraid of what their wives will think. But there ARE actually some who choose not to watch the "mainstream" (for lack of a better word) porn. There are some who choose not to view the naked pictures. Some do it for religious reasons. Some just find it disrespectful of their spouses. Either is a viable reason, IMO. And, I think it is unfair to imply that a man is a closet homosexual if he doesn't like that sort of thing. If it works for you, fine. If your wife/gf/SO is cool with it, great. But why tell someone that her husband is likely a closet homosexual because he chooses to go against the "norm"?

I agree, generally speaking, men are more visual than women. But, I know, for myself, I'd rather see a man in front of me than to try to imagine it by reading a book. I'm lazy, I wanna see it! LOL Regarding him and me viewing vs not viewing, it all depends on your definition of porn, it seems. We will view ones we have made ourselves, which some consider to be porn. But other than that, no. And, he brought the subject up first. We don't have it in our house, and we have no intention of bringing it in...tho, there was that one time our then-two year-old clicked on one of those banners on a game on hubby's cell phone... and cried when I took the phone from him!

But, when it comes to movies, my husband doesn't consider romance movies to be on par with porn. He sees it on the same level as his action movies...or horror type flicks. 

I don't expect that he doesn't look at other women. What I think was meant regarding women saying "channel sexual energy to ME".... is that when you are aroused, come to me, your wife, don't take care of it yourself, if I am available. Honestly, this applies both ways. If my husband were to masturbate instead of having sex with me, I would be hurt. Seriously.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case, it isn't about being insecure. I know the sex in porn flicks is staged. I know the pictures in the magazines and on the sites are airbrushed. In my case, it would be about sneaking around, hiding the activity instead of trying to get a solution together. Then again, I think I am the more adventurous one. HE has said to ME a few times "oh, sure, we can try new things"...and when I try, he balks. It may be insecurity. It may be something else. He's not the type to just open up. And, that is something we are working on as well.

Anyway, I do agree there needs to be more open communication with each other regarding this subject. I also believe that if you don't 100% agree that you can give it up, you shouldn't have to... but the potential spouse shouldn't have to accept it if HE or SHE isn't comfortable. If they can come up with a reasonable compromise that works for each, great... but lie about it and don't hide it. It will only make things worse when it is found out.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> Honestly, I think some of the reason men hide it IS because they are afraid of what their wives will think. But there ARE actually some who choose not to watch the "mainstream" (for lack of a better word) porn. There are some who choose not to view the naked pictures. Some do it for religious reasons. Some just find it disrespectful of their spouses. Either is a viable reason, IMO. And, I think it is unfair to imply that a man is a closet homosexual if he doesn't like that sort of thing.


I think the main idea was not that not watching porn made you an homosexual, but rather that a guy who gets excited on the same sort of stuff that stimulates women is most likely one. Practical example, a guy that doesn't look at naked pics of women but derives sexual stimulation from one of those pink novels (maybe even identifying with the lady instead of the male). 

I think even you all politically correct ladies would agree that a guy matching this description is very probably not an example of manhood. 

Now, what i think is really important is communication. Going behind your spouse's back and do some stuff you agreed not to do is wrong. 

It's all about the boundaries you mark for yourselves.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Ahh, but you don't know that, Costa. The thing is, full frontal male nudity is pretty rare, and it's my guess that men would be singing a very different tune if it became the norm and women started ogling, commenting on and masturbating to images of men's penises..


It's NOT the norm because women ARE NOT DRIVEN THAT WAY!!!! Women are driven by the "romantic fairy tail" type things. Believe me, that $30k wedding with horse drawn carriages, flowers up the wazoo, etc., is not for the guy. It is for you because of all the romantic things that trigger in a womans brain. 

If women were as visual as men, there would be a "ladies club" with male strippers on as many corners as there are "gentelmens clubs". If women were as visual as men, there would be 14 different variations of playgirl on the newstand instead of one. 

If men were as mentally stimulated as women, there would be romance novels on the table in the old barber shop instead of playboys and penthouse. 

I AM THANKFUL EVERY SINGLE DAY I HAVE SUCH A WONDERFUL WOMAN IN MY LIFE WHO GETS IT, IS CONFIDENT IN HER KICK AZZ ABILITITES AS A WOMAN, AND IS NOT THREATENED BY SOME UNREALISTICLY ATTAINABLE "IDEAL" OF THE FEMALE FORM, AND UNDERSTANDS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SEXES AND WHAT DRIVES HER MAN (AND ALL MEN). So VERY thankful. You know what? Regardless of how her body stacks up against some 25 year old "10", the vast majority of THOSE "hot babes" could never meet the "ideal" of what I've found in my wife....a woman who "gets it" and is not threatened by things that don't matter or feels a need to chastise or belittle me because I'm simply different from her and doing what comes NATURALLY to me as a male. 

I swear, if there was just more maturity and understanding in relationships and marriages about what is at the core of the opposite sex, understanding the need and that it is simply a part of what makes us what we are through evolution, there would be so far many fewer problems. I'll bend over backwards and allow her to be all that a woman is, as long as she does the same for me and allows me to be all that a man is. I'll give her everything she desires as long as she continues to do the same for me. It should not be hard or difficult because it is different. All it takes is maturity, a willingness to see the other side's point of view, and understanding.

Why something so simple seems to be made so hard, by so many, is beyond comprehension sometimes.

You want to have the most satisfied man in the world? UNDERSTAND HIM and don't berate or belittle him because he is NOT A WOMAN and does not think like a woman. If you want a woman, well then, go get one. I guarantee, THAT is not the cakewalk some think it is.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

To be very blunt and open about this...let's put this in perspective, at least as it pertains to me.

I was single for a very long time after a very bad marriage and divorce. My ex was very much like many of the women here...threatened by all this nonsense. But, that was just one issue of many of her insecurity issues.

At any rate, I was single and refused to date for many years. For my release, I turned to porn. I "took care of myself" daily, and there was likely never more than a hadful of times that did not include a visual of a naked woman on the TV or computer screen. Porn "addict"? I don't know, you tell me.

Since I've met my W, my porn activites consist of possibly looking at it once a week, usually to check a website I'm a "member" of, to download something. We sometimes watch these together. Sometimes I watch them by myself. And yes, it turns me on. Now, ask me the number of times I've masturbated alone to it in let's say the past year. Honestly...maybe a couple times a month? If that gets me "turned on", I'll reserve that "energy" for the W when she gets home. I just do not want to even masturbate without her there, and I prefer her to be there...because she does not judge me. Once again, I guess, because she does not view that as a threat or in some insecure way that she's not good enough for me. So, as a result, she gets all of me and gets to see all of me when I'm in the mood for that. And she loves it. But yes, still, I still enjoy some "private time" every once in a while...just as she does.

I must be the most sexually satisfied man on the planet I think sometimes, and such a huge part of that is that she understands me, does not judge me, and has no issues with me being this way simply because she is not so. As a result, she gets virtually ALL of my attention because I adore her and her way so very damn much. I can be 100% myself with her, 100% of the time, and I never catch an ounce of flack over it. There is no "naked hottie" that could ever create the desire in me that being with such a kick azz, confident woman does.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Would you have married him if he wouldn't agree to never looking at porn? Would that be an okay difference of opinion? If not, I'm not surprised he lied about it. Or maybe, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he thought he could abide by your agreement and then found it too difficult but knew it would be a deal breaker for you.

I don't get the issue with porn, frankly. I expect my husband to be monogomous. I don't expect that he will not have the desire to look at other women. I'm sure he would like to be able to have sex with other women, because he's human, but he doesn't because he has made a commitment to me. I'm not going to insist that I'm the only woman he ever gets to see naked, I'm in pretty good shape for a nearly-40 year old mother of two, but I don't need that kind of pressure.

Anyway, I like porn now. I was a bit threatened by it years ago, but now I'm older and I'm not so insecure. We watch it together, my husband knows my tastes and finds stuff he knows I'll like. It turns me on to think about him looking at porn and masturbating, I make him describe it to me. 

I don't own my husbands thoughts or personal sexuality. If he was looking at porn instead of having sex with me, that would be a different situation, but porn enhances our already good sexual bond, and I think it could work that way for more people than it does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Not that I'm into them, but I doubt that chick flicks and romance novels objectify men in quite the same manner that porn does women. I can't remember seeing a chick flick where there's a close up of a man's penis, let alone an ejaculating one, and I doubt that many women use chick flicks or romance novels as tools for masturbation, which isn't the case with porn.
> 
> Saying that chick flicks and romance novels are the same as porn is pretty disingenuous, IMO.


they do objectify men. they create an unsustainable, unattainable standard for men to behave, think and feel.

(some) women then expect men to carry these behaviours in real life.

this happens from childhood. watch any disney move and see.

also 'addictions' interfere with other aspects of life, while 'habits' are past times or hobbies. many women use the term 'porn addicts' to label and shame men even if their habits dont interfere with the rest of their lives.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

costa200 said:


> Ladies, good luck finding a guy that truly doesn't look at porn. Plus, i hope you've also made the decision to not read romances, that are the female equivalent to porn. If you didn't, then you played your hubbies.


LOL


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Good post, Maricha! The OP really does need to communicate with her H about this issue, and encourage him to stop hiding it.

My various posts in this thread have perhaps been interpreted as my personal issues, which in fact they are not. I was merely stating my opinion on the concept of porn and the possible reasons it creates issues in relationships etc... 

Porn has never been an issue, one way or the other, in any of my relationships and I am totally comfortable and secure in my own sexuality.

I hope the OP and her H find a solution to their present problem.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> I literally laugh out loud EVERY time someone compares porn to romance novels/movies. What a crock of sh!t!


Well not romance novels _per se_, but to be fair, the word was originally coined to describe a sexually explicit *story* and that notion is still definition #1 in most English dictionaries. 

The book _Fifty Shades of Grey_ for example is pornography in the purest sense of the word.

I realize I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but good grief! The word predates the camera by many centuries.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh no...Not another porn thread. Seriously! Some of you ladies really need to get a grip!

Yeah, you might say viewing porn is disgusting and vile. Yet, you'll read the hell out of it!!

I have yet to see a husband start a thread stating, " My wife just read 50 Shades of Grey! HOW COULD SHE?!?!?" or " My wife just watched Magic Mike! I can't believe she was LUSTING all over those actors! It made me sick! Is that how she wishes I looked? I'm sooo insecure now..."

This is just getting out of hand.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

There really should be a warning to new posters that any thread even tangentially related to porn will eventually devolve into "pro-porn vs anti-porn" and the debate of whether romance novels are the female equivalent to porn.

While some of this discussion is relevant, I really feel like we as the TAM community should try to rein in these never ending debates. OP came here looking for some insight into her situation, and while a few of the responses have been that, most of them have been with posters arguing with each other about an issue that we all know is subjective and has no blanket "right" answer.

Not trying to be a d!ck, but it always bums me out when I see this sort of thing. OP may never come back bc she feels like she opened a can of worms and without getting much feedback on her OP.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

cookiewarrington said:


> Hello,
> My husband has done something that has really hurt my feelings. We discussed pornography both before and during our marriage. We both agreed that it was something we would abstain from because of our moral stances. Recently I found a pornographic DVD and magazine in his sock drawer. I am hurt by this for few of reasons. First off he lied to me. If he wasn't going to abstain from pornography he should have been upfront with me. I could handle him having some differing opinions from me, I don't deal well with dishonesty. Secondly during our sexual encounters he would make unsolicited remarks about how he would never want pornography or another woman because I fulfill all his needs and fantasies. I feel humiliated for believing that he felt this away about me. I feel stupid for believing that I was good enough. The third reason I am really hurt is because when I asked him why he turned to pornography his answer was that he is bored with our sex life. I am always introducing new things into our sex life and whenever I ask him what he would like to do or wants me to try his response is always "nothing." I don't understand why he didn't speak up if our sex life wasn't meeting his desires. I don't understand why he did what he did and am having a really hard time moving past the hurt and no longer feel confident in my sexual abilities. Any advice is welcome.


To the OP (if you're still here), a few thoughts:
1) Are you, he, or both of you very religious, or have some other external framework in your lives that imposes a certain moral standard? If so, your husband may have some shame and guilt associated with porn. Even if you're not religious, he may feel guilt and shame because he knows it hurts you.

2) How long has your husband been exposed to porn? If it's been a long time, or if he's been turning to it for a long time, it can definitely start to warp his expectations of both you and your sexual encounters. 

3) Does your husband have a lot of sexual experience? If not, then he probably doesn't know how to have good sex and turns to porn instead of facing his inadequacy. I know it sounds totally stupid and disingenuous, but if he's been watching porn for a long time, that's "safer" than exploring his sexuality with his wife. This is a double wammy for a guy, because we're all supposed to be studs that know how to deliver mind-blowing orgasms (or so we think in our minds).

What you need to do is have a very calm, NON-CONFRONTATIONAL, NON-ACCUSATORY talk with him about it. Make him feel safe, like he can tell you anything without repercussion, and just let him talk about him. It may not be anything deeply psychological, he may just be insensitive, but if you don't try, you'll never know what the real root of the problem is.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> There really should be a warning to new posters that any thread even tangentially related to porn will eventually devolve into "pro-porn vs anti-porn" and the debate of whether romance novels are the female equivalent to porn.
> 
> While some of this discussion is relevant, I really feel like we as the TAM community should try to rein in these never ending debates. OP came here looking for some insight into her situation, and while a few of the responses have been that, most of them have been with posters arguing with each other about an issue that we all know is subjective and has no blanket "right" answer.
> 
> Not trying to be a d!ck, but it always bums me out when I see this sort of thing. OP may never come back bc she feels like she opened a can of worms and without getting much feedback on her OP.



Very true. I regret having taken any part in this and sincerely apologize to the OP.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Very true. I regret having taken any part in this and sincerely apologize to the OP.


I don't. I think if anything, our discussion shows that it is a divided issue between men and women and while it justifies her own feelings towards porn as a woman, it also greatly highlighted the fact that men in general view porn as important (perhaps a need to some) and that giving it up isn't something to be taken lightly for most men and, is indeed, a sacrifice.

Additionally, it was well established that the real problem she is struggling with isn't the porn itself, but rather her husbands lying about being willing to give up porn when in fact he clearly wasn't willing to follow through on that commitment.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Additionally, it was well established that the real problem she is struggling with isn't the porn itself, but rather her husbands lying about being willing to give up porn when in fact he clearly wasn't willing to follow through on that commitment.


If porn isn't really the problem, then how does 4 pages of what defines porn and whether it's good or bad or a "right" help the OP?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Davelli0331 said:


> If porn isn't really the problem, then how does 4 pages of what defines porn and whether it's good or bad or a "right" help the OP?


To help her see that her attitude about porn may be part of the problem.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> If porn isn't really the problem, then how does 4 pages of what defines porn and whether it's good or bad or a "right" help the OP?


In my opinion, I think the advice she needed was shared before this turned into a long-winded discussion about men+women+porn.

That side, as I also mentioned in the part you didn't quote, the porn discussion shows how men in general feel about porn and that maybe the OP could use that information when trying to rationalize where her husbands porn needs come from.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Davelli0331 said:


> If porn isn't really the problem, then how does 4 pages of what defines porn and whether it's good or bad or a "right" help the OP?



Given the fact that the actual definition of pornography is only seven words long, (i.e. Sexually explicit writing, pictures or other material) I don't think we've actually had four pages of what defines 'porn' so much as we've had four pages of subjective perspective and viewpoint. This is the internet after all.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> To help her see that her attitude about porn may be part of the problem.


Or that his love for it, and dishonesty over it may be part of the problem as well. 

I would say it works both ways and they both may have a hand in it.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

EDIT: Deleted my reply, as I'm becoming guilty of derailing the thread in a totally different direction


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Why is there this assumption that the OP got scared off?

This board is full of one time posters who came, posted their question, got some information and left, never to be heard from again. They aren't all scared off. 

My first ever thread turned into a debate (not this lengthy mind you, but a debate nonetheless) and I'm still here and plan on staying.

Discussion is discussion, it doesn't have to always be directed to the OP. In fact, I'd warrant there is just as much value in sharing our viewpoints with regular TAM members as there is with new ones.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

cookiewarrington,

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. The whole porn thing is quite a tough thing. 

I will share with you my experience to shed light on things as i feel my thoughts/experiences are similar to many men. I know this as i have had conversations with them on some of this topic. I will say I have always used porn over the years as stimulation to self-satisfy. I married late in life. No matter who i dated, no matter how good or bad the sex was or how hot they were I used porn as stimulation to masturbate. I always viewed this a healthy outlet and natural. I am sure as a women who wants to be her husbands "everything" in and out of the bedroom having her H use porn is a hard pill to swallow and hurts you. Again i sympathize. 

Personally I would never cheat on my wife. The thought makes me sick. I also don't fantasize about having sex with the women in the movies etc. I think that most women would be outraged to know the extent to which they oogle women. I think the problem is when women don't want to realize (and men sometimes downplay this tendency) that it is TRUE of not only men as a whole but "their man". Men from 12 years old to 112 will naturally be drawn to women and their bodies. For me viewing porn is not looking at a women i would rather be with but, to view a bunch of body parts (again this makes me and the rest of us dispicable pigs to most women). 

In general, men (right or wrong) can't fully appreciate the big deal (even though clearly to man women it is). We truly don't see it as cheating (even if it bothers you). 

I don't think that your H was purposefully deceptive when you agreed to this in the beginning. Although, I wonder when you say "you both agreed to stop using porn" that you were not driving this. He loved/loves you and agrees. He did go back to an old habit that he probably did for years before meeting you. Again, i am not defending this. However, statistically more men are drawn to porn overwhelmingly then women. So him agreeing to stay away from it was likely more difficult for you and other men for that matter. 

I know you may believe you relationship is such that "he should have been able to talk to you..or told you" but, his actions speak otherwise. 

I can't tell you how to get past the hurt or what to do going forward. I think that most men and women can't appreciate the other's position on this topic and that is unfortunate but, whatever remedy you select don't view it as some deficiency on you, your sex together or his love for you.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Thank you to all those that really wanted to help and not berate me assuming I'm anti-male and male needs. I would like to answer a few questions. 
1.	He is religious and I'm really not. One of the reasons he decided not to make porn a part of our marriage has to do with what he thinks God would want. We both agree that while porn is pleasurable in the moment it makes us feel icky and bad after the fact. I’ve done a lot of soul searching to decide if I feel this way because society has told me I’m supposed to feel like that or because it is truly against my own moral makeup. I’ve decided on the latter. We both agree that sex is powerful! We thought it would be beneficial to our relationship if we kept this type of relationship exclusively between one another. However we never meant for either us to take this to an extreme and not notice attractive people. We simply agreed to not seek out sexual pleasure with others including those we do not know, such as in video pornography etc. We also agreed that one of the reasons being naked is so exciting and pleasurable is because it is uncommon and maybe even taboo. If we expose ourselves to too much of this it may become less of a thrill. We have re-evaluated together whether or not we both still agree pornography is wrong for us since I found his “stash.’ He says he still agrees it is wrong and he just messed up. I completely understand this. I’m human too and sometimes do things that I don’t believe to be right. 
2.	Yes, I would have still married him if he had said “ I do not have a moral objection to porn and will not give it up.” Yes, I would stay married and support of him if he decided to change his mind on this issue after the matter.
3.	My earlier statement about not feeling confident in my sexual abilities isn’t actually what I meant. It isn’t that I feel as that I don’t measure up to what he was viewing. What I mean is now I have no faith that his words of affirmation during or about our sex aren’t just bull**** again. (He made unsolicited comments about how he would never desire porn because I was enough, and how great our sex was only to take it back later by saying it was boring.) The dishonesty is the biggest issue here. Not the porn.
4.	We had a conversation and he told me that he doesn’t feel that I have done anything to make him scared to come to me with the truth. It is just a bad habit he has from growing up in a home where love was taken if he didn’t do things exactly the way his parents wanted. He says a lot of times he lies to me then thinks “wow there really wasn’t any reason to lie.” This is something he is working on and has gotten better about.
5.	As far as romantic novels go…they aren’t my thing. Someone gets me signed Nicholas sparks novels for Christmas every year and while I appreciate the thought I dread having to read them just so I can tell the person I did to appear grateful.
6.	He was neglecting my sexual needs…seriously I would like to do it at least once a day. I was only getting it like once a month while he was rubbing it out himself to porn daily. I don’t think this is fair to me. I understand that sometimes you just want to get the job done yourself. However I don’t think one should masturbate to the point that they neglect their spouse’s needs. If he wanted to do this he shouldn’t have asked me to marry him knowing my sexual appetites.
7.	I asked him why he didn’t tell me what he wanted in sex. His response was it was just easier to purchase porn that suited what he wanted than take the time to explain his wants and desires yet alone be an active participant in acting them out. I don’t get this. I’ve never once been too tired in my life for sex and am always very vocal about what I want. I want to say too that I go out of our way to make our sex life always enjoyable and exciting. I stay in shape and make sure I keep my booty big and round like he likes. My measurements are bust:36i nches waist:25 inches hips: 39 inches. I’m naturally a pair but to bring it to that extreme is a lot of work. If I didn’t do about a billion squats and lunges a day my hips would be more like 37inches. I go out of my way to purchase sexy toys that he will enjoy and have an addiction to lingerie like most girls do to shoes. I also have taken classes in the art of pole dancing, belly dancing and strip teasing. I wear sexy costumes and initiate role play. I’m trying to do my part here. He needs to do his! Also I’m up to try just about anything once. I would even consider bringing someone else into the relationship if he asked me too. However doing this behind my back would just hurt me and make me angry.
8.	I agree that as a culture for the most part we have become anti-male. We encourage men to get in touch with their feminine side while not asking woman to understand male rationale. I for one try very hard to encourage my husband in all his life pursuits. I would never want to make him feel bad because of who he is at the core of his nature. We wouldn’t own six vehicles if this wasn’t the case and I wouldn’t sit through every single Rocky movie there is or support and stay faithful to him every time he goes off to war. I would also like to point out that I have moved 3 times in the past 3 months all so he could be the primary breadwinner. 
9.	He has had many more sex partners than me. However while his has been many one night stands I am a serial monogamous. That being said I have had a lot more sexual experience on the kinky side sex than he has. My theory as to why this is, because I guess during drunken one night stands you might not get into what your fantasies are etc.
10.	I believe we will get through this. It will take time and he will need to earn my trust back.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

In reference to number 7. What kind of porn does he watch? Do you think he feels its kind of far out there, to kinky or weird and thats why he feels he can't share his sexual desires with you?


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Jamison said:


> In reference to number 7. What kind of porn does he watch? Do you think he feels its kind of far out there, to kinky or weird and thats why he feels he can't share his sexual desires with you?


From what I found it was just plain old guys doing women in multiple positions.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> Well not romance novels _per se_, but to be fair, the word was originally coined to describe a sexually explicit *story* and that notion is still definition #1 in most English dictionaries.
> 
> The book _Fifty Shades of Grey_ for example is pornography in the purest sense of the word.
> 
> I realize I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but good grief! The word predates the camera by many centuries.


Fifty shades of sh!t, more accurately! Gawd! Seriously? That's 'women's porn'? Well here's something for you. This romance novel BS just doesn't do it for me. Real erotic literature, the dirtier the better? Now your talking. A quick turn on for me? Watching some woman getting gangbanged on my computer, wishing it was me...Yet porn is a problem in my marriage because my HUSBAND had to resort to lying and hiding, despite my very liberal and adventurous attitude toward sex. Even after we'd been together for awhile, and I let my true self out to him, he still chose to lie and hide like some shamed 13 year old boy. For this, I can thank his mother and every other prudish woman he's ever been with who can't even bring themselves to look at their own c-u-n-t-s. So do me a favor, and please stop telling us that crap like '50' is porn for women. Not even close.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Thanks for sharing all those points cookie. It sounds like you two will make it and over come this issue, but also that there is other tension. I hope the two of you continue to talk and grow and that this is just a minor bump on the road to a long and successful marriage.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Fifty shades of sh!t, more accurately! Gawd! Seriously? That's 'women's porn'? Well here's something for you. This romance novel BS just doesn't do it for me. Real erotic literature, the dirtier the better? Now your talking. A quick turn on for me? Watching some woman getting gangbanged on my computer, wishing it was me...Yet porn is a problem in my marriage because my HUSBAND had to resort to lying and hiding, despite my very liberal and adventurous attitude toward sex. Even after we'd been together for awhile, and I let my true self out to him, he still chose to lie and hide like some shamed 13 year old boy. For this, I can thank his mother and every other prudish woman he's ever been with who can't even bring themselves to look at their own c-u-n-t-s. So do me a favor, and please stop telling us that crap like '50' is porn for women. Not even close.


Perhaps for women such as yourself. that said, I'd offer my guess that many more women would view 50 shades as porn for themselves (IE, something to get aroused by/get off to) than wanting to be the woman in a gangbang.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

I also want to add in there that in Men are From Mars Women are from Venus there is a statement about how men can find women who are always initiating sex to be intimidating. Maybe this could be a reason he didn't come to me. He has admitted before that sometimes he dislikes me and feels emasculated when I figure out what is wrong with a vehicle or how to fix it before him. He has been a mechanic in the military for almost 10 yrs now. He says that I’m good with cars was initially a turn on but has become something that makes him angry. Maybe he feels the same way about my sex drive. I don't think I should have to pretend though to not have a brain or have no sex drive to make him feel good. He should be able to derive his self-esteem from his own merits now on how he compares to others. I really don’t know the solution to this issue. It isn’t like I don’t praise him for everything he does, but apparently that isn’t good enough.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

cookiewarrington said:


> Thank you to all those that really wanted to help and not berate me assuming I'm anti-male and male needs. I would like to answer a few questions.
> 1.	He is religious and I'm really not. One of the reasons he decided not to make porn a part of our marriage has to do with what he thinks God would want. We both agree that while porn is pleasurable in the moment it makes us feel icky and bad after the fact. I’ve done a lot of soul searching to decide if I feel this way because society has told me I’m supposed to feel like that or because it is truly against my own moral makeup. I’ve decided on the latter. We both agree that sex is powerful! We thought it would be beneficial to our relationship if we kept this type of relationship exclusively between one another. However we never meant for either us to take this to an extreme and not notice attractive people. We simply agreed to not seek out sexual pleasure with others including those we do not know, such as in video pornography etc. We also agreed that one of the reasons being naked is so exciting and pleasurable is because it is uncommon and maybe even taboo. If we expose ourselves to too much of this it may become less of a thrill. We have re-evaluated together whether or not we both still agree pornography is wrong for us since I found his “stash.’ He says he still agrees it is wrong and he just messed up. I completely understand this. I’m human too and sometimes do things that I don’t believe to be right.
> 2.	Yes, I would have still married him if he had said “ I do not have a moral objection to porn and will not give it up.” Yes, I would stay married and support of him if he decided to change his mind on this issue after the matter.
> 3.	My earlier statement about not feeling confident in my sexual abilities isn’t actually what I meant. It isn’t that I feel as that I don’t measure up to what he was viewing. What I mean is now I have no faith that his words of affirmation during or about our sex aren’t just bull**** again. (He made unsolicited comments about how he would never desire porn because I was enough, and how great our sex was only to take it back later by saying it was boring.) The dishonesty is the biggest issue here. Not the porn.
> ...


Wow, there's a whole lot of information in here.

1) If he's religious, then he may have been hiding the porn not just from you, but from God (conceptually), hence some shame and guilt

3) Has he been dishonest with you about other things in the past?

4) This may seem odd to you, but it makes perfect sense. I grew up in a very similarly strict home where appearances mattered far more than reality, and you end up growing up a people pleaser. You start telling stupid, silly little lies that don't make sense to anyone because of your inner need to please everyone

6) Agree. Have you said this to him in a non confrontational way?

7) WHOA! Maybe he feels a little inundated?

8) Ok, I'm going to talk at length here. I'm a former Marine and a combat veteran. You mention your husband going to war. Whether you know it or not, porn is part of the military culture, especially in all-male occupational fields. Just like drinking, cursing, and fighting. If you walk into a barracks of all men, you're going to find pinup posters and porn mags all over the place, and maybe even a few guys huddled around a TV watching it. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's part of the culture.

Also, if your husband is a combat veteran, ie saw some really bad sh!t, he may have problems connecting emotionally with others. That's one of the symptoms of combat-related PTSD.

9) Not to be insulting, but have you thought that maybe your husband might feel a little intimidated? He has a good looking wife who's gone far above and beyond what most women do to be sexually appealing to their husbands, and he may feel inferior by comparison.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Fifty shades of sh!t, more accurately! Gawd! Seriously? That's 'women's porn'? Well here's something for you. This romance novel BS just doesn't do it for me. Real erotic literature, the dirtier the better? Now your talking. A quick turn on for me? Watching some woman getting gangbanged on my computer, wishing it was me...Yet porn is a problem in my marriage because my HUSBAND had to resort to lying and hiding, despite my very liberal and adventurous attitude toward sex. Even after we'd been together for awhile, and I let my true self out to him, he still chose to lie and hide like some shamed 13 year old boy. For this, I can thank his mother and every other prudish woman he's ever been with who can't even bring themselves to look at their own c-u-n-t-s. So do me a favor, and please stop telling us that crap like '50' is porn for women. Not even close.


I feel as though my situation is very similiar to your's. He really could have been truthful with me. However I don't want to be gangbanged lol.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

cookiewarrington said:


> I also want to add in there that in Men are From Mars Women are from Venus there is a statement about how men can find women who are always initiating sex to be intimidating. Maybe this could be a reason he didn't come to me. He has admitted before that sometimes he dislikes me and feels emasculated when I figure out what is wrong with a vehicle or how to fix it before him. He has been a mechanic in the military for almost 10 yrs now. He says that I’m good with cars was initially a turn on but has become something that makes him angry. Maybe he feels the same way about my sex drive. I don't think I should have to pretend though to not have a brain or have no sex drive to make him feel good. He should be able to derive his self-esteem from his own merits now on how he compares to others. I really don’t know the solution to this issue. It isn’t like I don’t praise him for everything he does, but apparently that isn’t good enough.


That might be true, Cookie...my own husband has never been with a woman such as myself. I possess a voracious appetite for all things sexual; he admittedly can't handle it, although he is learning some pretty good coping mechanisms...


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

cookiewarrington said:


> I feel as though my situation is very similiar to your's. He really could have been truthful with me. However I don't want to be gangbanged lol.


Gotcha...the gangbang is just an example...I like all kinds of stuff, just no girl on girl. Wigs me out. LMAO!!!


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

cookiewarrington said:


> I also want to add in there that in Men are From Mars Women are from Venus there is a statement about how men can find women who are always initiating sex to be intimidating. Maybe this could be a reason he didn't come to me. He has admitted before that sometimes he dislikes me and feels emasculated when I figure out what is wrong with a vehicle or how to fix it before him. He has been a mechanic in the military for almost 10 yrs now. He says that I’m good with cars was initially a turn on but has become something that makes him angry. Maybe he feels the same way about my sex drive. I don't think I should have to pretend though to not have a brain or have no sex drive to make him feel good. He should be able to derive his self-esteem from his own merits now on how he compares to others. I really don’t know the solution to this issue. It isn’t like I don’t praise him for everything he does, but apparently that isn’t good enough.


I think you might be on to something here. Do you think that your husband might feel a little pressured by all the things you do show him how you want to satisfy him sexually? I wonder if maybe he feels like he's under the gun to match everything you're doing. If so, then at some point he may start having a negative association with sex.

This will be even harder for him, being a military man. Military men are supposed to be the epitome of manliness, and here he is with a wife that on some level he may feel he can't satisfy. I wonder if that makes him feel that he had to hide the porn from you because he felt like it represented his failure to please you?

I only say all that because I've struggled with porn myself, and that was definitely one reason I turned to it instead of my wife, because there was no fear of not pleasing a woman. Sound stupid, but there it is.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Davelli0331 said:


> I think you might be on to something here. Do you think that your husband might feel a little pressured by all the things you do show him how you want to satisfy him sexually? I wonder if maybe he feels like he's under the gun to match everything you're doing. If so, then at some point he may start having a negative association with sex.
> 
> This will be even harder for him, being a military man. Military men are supposed to be the epitome of manliness, and here he is with a wife that on some level he may feel he can't satisfy. I wonder if that makes him feel that he had to hide the porn from you because he felt like it represented his failure to please you?
> 
> I only say all that because I've struggled with porn myself, and that was definitely one reason I turned to it instead of my wife, because there was no fear of not pleasing a woman. Sound stupid, but there it is.


It doesn't sound stupid at all; this is exactly what has happened with my husband. Feels good to see someone write it out in black and white...:smthumbup:


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> Wow, there's a whole lot of information in here.
> 
> 1) If he's religious, then he may have been hiding the porn not just from you, but from God (conceptually), hence some shame and guilt
> _Good point_
> ...


_I actually just mentioned that this could be the case in a comment. I do not know how to resolve this issue though. I'm trying to tone my sexuality down a little bit but part of me feels as though that means I'm being fake._


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

cookiewarrington said:


> He should be able to derive his self-esteem from his own merits now on how he compares to others.


This is likely the issue right here. Hes lack self esteem period. You seem to have self esteem actually, you even stated he gets angry when you do this or that etc. He should proud of his woman for knowing how to do certain things like fix a vehicle like you stated, not get upset over it. 

Porn is likely his outlet to making himself feel better (for the time being) and him being dishonest about it part of the self esteem issue. He feels he can't, so he doesn't. Just an observation.


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> I think you might be on to something here. Do you think that your husband might feel a little pressured by all the things you do show him how you want to satisfy him sexually? I wonder if maybe he feels like he's under the gun to match everything you're doing. If so, then at some point he may start having a negative association with sex.
> 
> This will be even harder for him, being a military man. Military men are supposed to be the epitome of manliness, and here he is with a wife that on some level he may feel he can't satisfy. I wonder if that makes him feel that he had to hide the porn from you because he felt like it represented his failure to please you?
> 
> I only say all that because I've struggled with porn myself, and that was definitely one reason I turned to it instead of my wife, because there was no fear of not pleasing a woman. Sound stupid, but there it is.


Thank you. Yes you have a point. In porn he doesn't have to try to please a woman. Thank you for helping me to understand this.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I wouldn't say tone down your sexuality, maybe just scale it back a bit. It's no more fake than being professional at a job interview or not cursing in church.

I know self esteem is supposed to come from within, blah blah blah, but if your husband grew up in a family where love was very much conditional on being a good boy/son/student/military man, etc, then much of his validation comes from how he thinks others perceive him. If he feels intimidated/emasculated by you, then it's going to be hard for him to build it back up without your help. You might want to start complimenting him on how he does certain "manly" things, or letting him do the stereotypical manly things around the house, or figure out some other way to give him little boosts. If he's the proverbial nice guy, you might get him to read "No More Mr Nice Guy" if he's willing.

As far as sex, I would slowly start introducing him to your sexual side. Instead of throwing it all at him at once, just take baby steps. And when you guys do have sex, tell him how hard he rocked your world, even if it was mediocre. The point here is to get him to enjoy your sexuality more than porn. You want him to break out of his shell and start exploring his own sexuality with you, but you can't start off by giving him a long laundry list of all your fantasies. That would just intimidate him. Make him feel like a stud and see if that doesn't improve his self-esteem, which I think would help make him leave the porn behind.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Fifty shades of sh!t, more accurately! Gawd! Seriously? That's 'women's porn'?


I actually didn't say, 'Women's porn.' I said _"...pornography in the purest sense of the word_" inasmuch as the book in question satisfies the primary definition, as well as the the etymological and cognate meanings. 




CandieGirl said:


> ..So do me a favor, and please stop telling us that crap like '50' is porn for women. Not even close.


All of us inject a little _subjective _perception into the words we use, because our personal experiences all vary. But those perceptions are subordinate to a set of _objective _definitions compiled into a book we call a "Dictionary."

And gender really has zero to do with that definition.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, it sounds like you have a good handle on all of this, and it's really a case of getting your husband on board in the honesty department, and things back on track in the bedroom. Would you both consider MC for this?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

cookiewarrington said:


> I agree 100%. I should ask him if any of my actions make him feel like he cannot disagree with me. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.


Hmm. In his mind, if he believes he can't disagree with you, he can't tell you because he doesn't feel he can tell you. Therefore, he will tell you he agrees with you whether he does or not...

Tricky one, that...


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## cookiewarrington (Jul 3, 2012)

* When I said I have moved three times in the last 3 months, I meant that I have moved 3 times in the past 12 months.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

cookiewarrington said:


> I also want to add in there that in Men are From Mars Women are from Venus there is a statement about how men can find women who are always initiating sex to be intimidating. Maybe this could be a reason he didn't come to me. He has admitted before that sometimes he dislikes me and feels emasculated when I figure out what is wrong with a vehicle or how to fix it before him. He has been a mechanic in the military for almost 10 yrs now. He says that I’m good with cars was initially a turn on but has become something that makes him angry. Maybe he feels the same way about my sex drive. I don't think I should have to pretend though to not have a brain or have no sex drive to make him feel good. He should be able to derive his self-esteem from his own merits now on how he compares to others. I really don’t know the solution to this issue. It isn’t like I don’t praise him for everything he does, but apparently that isn’t good enough.


From this, OP, it does sound like your H has self-esteem issues and, if so, I'm afraid he really has to work on these himself. You can't be expected to dumb it down or hide your sexuality because of these issues, but perhaps you can get him to talk to you more about them?


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

it is always the so-called "moral" ones who are the more sneaky and devious when it comes to trying to hide it from the spouse.

And in the same vein it seems the most "moral" (religious) US states are also the highest consumers of porn

MISSISSIPPI
Religion #1
Porn Consumption #3

UTAH
Religion #2
Porn Consumption #1

LOUISIANA
Religion #4
Porn Consumption #4

ARKANSAS
Religion #5
Porn Consumption #6

Google it


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Hicks said:


> Why he would not speak up if your sex life was not meeting his desires, is he did not want to hurt you. And you are proving this out by the fact that you are hurt when you hear this.


Or, he felt he would be bashed or an argument would ensue. Pretty similar in that the end result is the same old sex, yet still different.

To the OP:

I know you said that you are trying to spice things up, but have you considered whether you are introducing variety in the manner your husband would like to have it? Also, have you explored your moral standards to see if they really hold water and not something you following out of blind habit?

What I would hate to see here is the same situation I was in. My ex had a TON of hangups and was basically an intercourse-only gal. I had expressed an interest in spicing up our sex life and asked for (and was quickly denied):

1) Oral
2) Sex outside the bedroom
3) Role playing
4) Toys

Yet, she would swear she was spicing things up (by allowing intercourse positions other than missionary). The point is that her view of sex was so narrow that what she viewed as spicy was really a minor adjustment, and she was unwilling to make big changes in our sexual practices.

My gut says he would rather be with you than watch porn but has come to believe that you will not be open to the type of sex life he wants to have. So, I would suggest that you ask him what he would like to do, and be truly open-minded about it.

My take is as long as he is keeping sex between the two of you, and not pushing for something legally risky like sex in the park, there is no moral issue. It really is about personal preferences and your willingness to accomodate him. Give it a shot - you have nothing to lose.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> I actually didn't say, 'Women's porn.' I said _"...pornography in the purest sense of the word_" inasmuch as the book in question satisfies the primary definition, as well as the the etymological and cognate meanings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up for me. Very helpful.

*goes off to buy a copy of the book that is pornography in the purest sense of the word*


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

donny64 said:


> *Really? Okay...I don't want you to watch romance movies or read romance novels. Would you not see that as a "sacrafice"?* Um no not for me it wouldn't be a sacrifice!
> 
> *Women are mentally stimulated, men are visually stimulated. If you refuse to see that or accept that, you have some maturing to do. *
> 
> ...



This topic will always be a huge debate.. And those who like it will always defend it and not see anything WRONG with it.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Cosmos said:


> Had your H told you prior to getting married that he enjoyed watching porn and would continue to do so, given your moral stance on the subject, would you have still married him?
> 
> My point is, we make decisions based on the information at hand and, IMO, it is wrong to deceive someone about an issue that is important to them, then simply expect them to accept / deal with it later.


Exactly!!


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

CandieGirl said:


> I literally laugh out loud EVERY time someone compares porn to romance novels/movies. What a crock of sh!t! If I were ever to read / watch such drivel in the first place, would I be hiding it in my sock drawer? Doubt there'd be a need to do so. However, guys who continuously lie and hide porn use, *and* withold sex from their partners have a problem. Wish to hell more of you would realize that.
> 
> You're not alone, OP; sadly my 48 year old husband is struggling to this day, with a habit he's had for well over 30 years. Thankfully, we're overcoming the problems it has caused in our marriage, and things are getting better everyday. Hang in there.


LOL!! i so agree!! You cant watch porn at work, but you can read a romance novel.. They aren't even on the same level!


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I am going to add this

If your partner has ISSUES with anything.. It should stop period!!


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

ladybird said:


> LOL!! i so agree!! You cant watch porn at work, but you can read a romance novel.. They aren't even on the same level!


Generally speaking, though, you also can't watch, say, the inevitable film adaptation of _Fifty Shades of Grey_ at work, either. But, I could read, say, the contents of _Penthouse_'s Forum column at work just as slyly as one can read a romance novel. For that matter, I can't even watch *Bambi *at work, as I'm on the clock and would be using company resources to do so, even on lunch break. Heck...technically speaking, I shouldn't even be on this forum from my personal cell phone from work, as it's a violation of both our internet and personal electronics policies.

So, the "you can't look at it at work" litmus test fails as an accurate test if equity/disparity. 



ladybird said:


> I am going to add this
> 
> If your partner has ISSUES with anything.. It should stop period!!


Personally, I'd say if your partner has ISSUES with anything...it should be discussed. Saying, "It should stop period!!" presents a stark stop/go paradigm that may not apply to the situation.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

fish said:


> Something tells me your relationship had bigger issues than porn.


DING, DING, DING, what do we have for 'em johnny! 

But actually the problem turned out to be really simple. It's amazing what stepping back from the relationship can do.


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