# In a sexless marriage and out of options



## locrvaley (Oct 1, 2013)

This is my first time posting on this forum, so hopefully I'm doing this right. Here goes:

Been married for 10 years. My wife and I have 2 wonderful young kids. We get along great and really enjoy eachother's company. But, as my title states, we have zero sex life.

My story probably sounds familiar to many of you: When we first started dating (in our 20s) we had great sex all the time. Then we got real jobs, got married, had kids, and the frequency slowly decreased over time and about 4 years into the marriage it came to a complete stop.

I can't remember the last time we had any form of sex or even passionate kissing. I'd say was at least 4 months ago. In the past 4 years we've probably had sex maybe 8 times. I don't think I have an excessive libido, but I need sex at least once a month. I don't know or care if that's "normal" but that's how it is with me. My wife just doesn't seem to "need" sex. She is a stay-at-home-Mom and is focused 100% on our kids. I know she is not "getting it from someone else" and she is not maliciously withholding sex from me as punishment for something. She just doesn't have a sex drive.

So here's what we've (I've) tried:

About 6 years ago I had a good conversation with her about my feelings regarding our lack of sex. She said it's because she's "tired" but she promised she wouldn't reject me when I initiated. That lasted about a month and then we cycled back to zero sex.

Then we tried couples therapy. I ended up making a bunch of changes to make my wife "less tired" (I took on more chores, I planned dates without the kids, I gave her more alone time, etc). That lasted about a month and then we cycled back to zero sex even though I'm still doing most of the additional "duties" that I picked up.

Next my wife went to the Dr. to see if there was something physically wrong. No magic pill was available, so that was not the answer.

My wife went to individual counseling but she really didn't like that. One suggestion from her therapist was to have a "sex night" once a week. Guess what? That lasted about a month and then we cycled back to zero sex.

Finally, I signed up for individual counseling and joined a therapy group for people with marriage issues. That helped ME cope (allowed me to vent and helped me find some distractions) but it didn't do anything to fix the root of the problem.

I'm at the point now where I don't think I can do anything else. In fact, if I do anything else to try to fix things I believe I'll end up resenting my wife.

Obviously if divorce was an option I would have taken it by now, but I do not want a divorce and neither does my wife. 

At one point, about a year ago, my wife admitted to me that she was not fulfilling her "to have and to hold" marriage vow and that she would let me have sex with someone else if that's what it took for us to stay married. Her logic was that I could "hook up" with someone, but I could not seek a relationship with another woman because other than sex my wife is there for me emotionally, as a companion, etc.
I don't know if she thought that through completely before she said it to me, but now I'm wondering: Should I take her up on it or at least ask her about it again? I don't even know how I'd go about bringing up something like that!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

locrvaley said:


> This is my first time posting on this forum, so hopefully I'm doing this right. Here goes:
> 
> Been married for 10 years. My wife and I have 2 wonderful young kids. We get along great and really enjoy eachother's company. But, as my title states, we have zero sex life.
> 
> ...


As part of your "negotiation" I would ask for 3 or 4 times more than you need and let her drop it back towards your number.

I don't know how she could think 8 times in 4 years is excessive, also the lack of other forms of intimacy and closeness, is this really what she thinks you should be OK with?

What about one of your children? Should one of your children be ok with this arrangement?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Read the on going thread about a guy getting permission for BJ's. Lots of comments about your situation already. But if you want to go through with it, just ring it up like you've brought up the issue in the past. 

Have you gone through the Married Man's Sex Life Primer?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

I share your sorrow and dont have an answer for you.
You have tried everything. Is it possible for your wife to come on here and talk to us.


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## locrvaley (Oct 1, 2013)

Thanks for the replies.
I tried the "ask for more than I really want" negotiation tactic but still ended up with a month where we are physically intimate a few times and then back to absolutely nothing.
My wife realizes this is not something that I should be OK with, which is why she made the offer for me to "hook up" with someone else. That was a year ago and at the time I said "let's try to fix this first." But now, I'm out of "fix it" ideas, so I'm wondering if/how I should bring up the hook up idea she mentioned.
Not sure what you meant about my children being OK with the arrangement?


If I do bring it up, any suggestions for how to manage this type of open marriage? 
Also, is there a link to the Married Man's Sex Life Primer?
Thanks again!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

locrvaley said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> I tried the "ask for more than I really want" negotiation tactic but still ended up with a month where we are physically intimate a few times and then back to absolutely nothing.
> My wife realizes this is not something that I should be OK with, which is why she made the offer for me to "hook up" with someone else. That was a year ago and at the time I said "let's try to fix this first." But now, I'm out of "fix it" ideas, so I'm wondering if/how I should bring up the hook up idea she mentioned.
> Not sure what you meant about my children being OK with the arrangement?
> ...


"Open marriage" can be hell, but people have done it and managed it.

I was asking does your wife think that the arrangement she is offereing you would be sufficient for one of your sons or daughters?

That's what I was asking. Do you think your son or daughter should gain the benefit of a spouse who will be there, but their intimate and sexual need would not be met, and much of the emotional. That if they wanted it they would seek it from the outside?

If you are to do a "open" arrangement, theories abound whether it should be a "no feelings involved" "sex worker" or a FWB who poses you and your life no harm...

With the FWB, the danger is that you see how the simple act doesn't take that much time and effort, and the FWB enjoys this short time with you whereas the "wife" will not, it will build up resentment.

Also what if the wife really is getting dipped in from the outside through a secret source?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Don't hook up with anyone else.

Currently your wife believes you want to use her body for sex, has no idea that sex to a man is about love and connection... And if you use a different woman for sex you will really reinforce and cement your wife's incorrect views on sex, love and marriage.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

accept1 said:


> I share your sorrow and dont have an answer for you.
> You have tried everything. Is it possible for your wife to come on here and talk to us.


I second the suggestion to have her come to this forum and read some of the threads. You are not getting through to her just like my husband couldn't get through to me. Sometimes it makes all the difference to hear it from others. For what it's worth, after I found TAM, ten years of low desire on my part was corrected in about 24 hours. 

She seems like she WANTS to fix this, but is at a loss. She can get her libido back, but she has to look hard and deep at herself first. You say she didn't like individual counseling, but I think that is the key. Have her find a therapist to can help her get to the root of why she no longer desires sex with you. Just going through the motion of "sex night" isn't going to fix things. 

Don't cheat on her, and don't seek sex outside the marriage unless you're willing to forfeit _ever_ having a mutually fulfilling sex life with your wife.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Why did you bring children into a sexless marriage?

Was your wife sexual during the times she wanted children?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Hicks said:


> Don't hook up with anyone else.
> 
> Currently your wife believes you want to use her body for sex, has no idea that sex to a man is about love and connection... And if you use a different woman for sex you will really reinforce and cement your wife's incorrect views on sex, love and marriage.


:iagree:


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Sex makes you feel loved by your wife.

What is the thing or things you do (not sex), that makes your wife feel loved by you in the way sex makes you feel loved?

Without posessing that key, you will not get any sex from her.


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## locrvaley (Oct 1, 2013)

I never really thought about asking my wife if she thought this type of marriage structure would be something our kids should find acceptable. I assume she would say no because she doesn't think it's something that I should find acceptable, but it's a good thought for me to bring up next time we have yet another talk about our sex(less) life.

I've tried doing things that make my wife feel "loved" It put her in a pretty good mood, but didn't turn her on sexually... which ended up making me feel frustrated to be honest. Yeah, I guess that sounds bad, kinda like "I only did those nice things because I expected sex as a thank you" but that's sort of how it is.

I disagree that my wife thinks I want to use her body for sex. She has said before that she understands sex in important in a marriage to cement a feeling of intimacy and connectedness. 

I'd love it if my wife would be willing to join a forum like this, but it's simply not a priority for her. The focus is all on the kids. Dragging her to more couples therapy or counseling without her full buy-in would be a waste.

I appreciate the responses, but I feel I've really tried everything.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Loc,
The questions below are intended to provide some context. The more open you are, the more likely folks can make suggestions that might help. 

How much sexual experience did each of you have before meeting each other? Do you know what type of men she dated before you? 

How adventurous were you/your wife when you had a sex life? Was she open with you about what she liked/disliked in bed? Did you try to understand what turned her on and equally what turned her off? 

How much have you two physically changed in terms of fitness from the point at which you got engaged until now?

Did your sex life change from frequent to almost never very fast or did that change happen gradually? 

How old is your youngest child? 

When you had sex, how much did she seem to enjoy it? How much time would you typically spend on foreplay? Did you give her most of the foreplay, was it about even, or was she mostly giving you foreplay? 

How long did intercourse typically last? 




QUOTE=locrvaley;4605449]This is my first time posting on this forum, so hopefully I'm doing this right. Here goes:

Been married for 10 years. My wife and I have 2 wonderful young kids. We get along great and really enjoy eachother's company. But, as my title states, we have zero sex life.

My story probably sounds familiar to many of you: When we first started dating (in our 20s) we had great sex all the time. Then we got real jobs, got married, had kids, and the frequency slowly decreased over time and about 4 years into the marriage it came to a complete stop.

I can't remember the last time we had any form of sex or even passionate kissing. I'd say was at least 4 months ago. In the past 4 years we've probably had sex maybe 8 times. I don't think I have an excessive libido, but I need sex at least once a month. I don't know or care if that's "normal" but that's how it is with me. My wife just doesn't seem to "need" sex. She is a stay-at-home-Mom and is focused 100% on our kids. I know she is not "getting it from someone else" and she is not maliciously withholding sex from me as punishment for something. She just doesn't have a sex drive.

So here's what we've (I've) tried:

About 6 years ago I had a good conversation with her about my feelings regarding our lack of sex. She said it's because she's "tired" but she promised she wouldn't reject me when I initiated. That lasted about a month and then we cycled back to zero sex.

Then we tried couples therapy. I ended up making a bunch of changes to make my wife "less tired" (I took on more chores, I planned dates without the kids, I gave her more alone time, etc). That lasted about a month and then we cycled back to zero sex even though I'm still doing most of the additional "duties" that I picked up.

Next my wife went to the Dr. to see if there was something physically wrong. No magic pill was available, so that was not the answer.

My wife went to individual counseling but she really didn't like that. One suggestion from her therapist was to have a "sex night" once a week. Guess what? That lasted about a month and then we cycled back to zero sex.

Finally, I signed up for individual counseling and joined a therapy group for people with marriage issues. That helped ME cope (allowed me to vent and helped me find some distractions) but it didn't do anything to fix the root of the problem.

I'm at the point now where I don't think I can do anything else. In fact, if I do anything else to try to fix things I believe I'll end up resenting my wife.

Obviously if divorce was an option I would have taken it by now, but I do not want a divorce and neither does my wife. 

At one point, about a year ago, my wife admitted to me that she was not fulfilling her "to have and to hold" marriage vow and that she would let me have sex with someone else if that's what it took for us to stay married. Her logic was that I could "hook up" with someone, but I could not seek a relationship with another woman because other than sex my wife is there for me emotionally, as a companion, etc.
I don't know if she thought that through completely before she said it to me, but now I'm wondering: Should I take her up on it or at least ask her about it again? I don't even know how I'd go about bringing up something like that![/QUOTE]


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## locrvaley (Oct 1, 2013)

Thanks Mem

My responses:

How much sexual experience did each of you have before meeting each other? I had sex with 3 other girls. One was a one-night deal, the other 2 were girlfriends and we had frequent sex for the 6 months or so we were together.
She had sex with one guy who was her boyfriend. The sex was somewhat regular from what she told me.

Do you know what type of men she dated before you? She dated "nice guys" (like me). 

How adventurous were you/your wife when you had a sex life? On a scale from 1-10, 1 being missionary-only and 10 being some crazy XXX german porn, we were at a steady 6.


Was she open with you about what she liked/disliked in bed? Yes, from the beginning. That helped and is probably why our sex is always very good for both of us when we do it.

Did you try to understand what turned her on and equally what turned her off? Yes. I know what she likes and how to initiate, foreplay, etc. 

How much have you two physically changed in terms of fitness from the point at which you got engaged until now? We are both in good shape. Not much different looking now than our wedding photos.

Did your sex life change from frequent to almost never very fast or did that change happen gradually? Gradually for sure. Work, then kids changed our priorities, but most married people work and have kids. There's no physical illness or sex abuse past or anything that caused the drop off in sex. It just gradually came to a stop.


When you had sex, how much did she seem to enjoy it? YES. She still says she enjoys it and always reaches a powerful orgasm.

How much time would you typically spend on foreplay? 15-20 mins

Did you give her most of the foreplay, was it about even, or was she mostly giving you foreplay? Even

How long did intercourse typically last? about 30 mins


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

locrvaley said:


> I never really thought about asking my wife if she thought this type of marriage structure would be something our kids should find acceptable. I assume she would say no because she doesn't think it's something that I should find acceptable, but it's a good thought for me to bring up next time we have yet another talk about our sex(less) life.
> 
> I've tried doing things that make my wife feel "loved" It put her in a pretty good mood, but didn't turn her on sexually... which ended up making me feel frustrated to be honest. Yeah, I guess that sounds bad, kinda like "I only did those nice things because I expected sex as a thank you" but that's sort of how it is.
> 
> ...


Your big mistake is that you think that doing more for your wife will automatically result in her reciprocating for you in the form of more sex. Doesn't work, does it? Your wife even acknowledges to you that you should not be OK with it. If your wife knows that what she is doing is wrong, how do you think her perception of you changes when she sees you rewarding her "bad behavior" in the hopes of getting her to change. Do children learn to be better people when they are rewarded for bad behavior? Of course not. But when it comes to human nature, many people will take advantage of someone else for as long as the aggrieved person allows it to continue.

Just a suggestion, but I think it's time to relinquish these extra duties that you picked up for your wife. I'd also tell her that it's time for you to take more time out for yourself instead of putting all of your energies into a marriage where the partner does not reciprocate.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

I have already given my opinion that you should get your wife to come on here. For some reason you are not happy with that.

I get the impression you have given up and are really mainly considering other avenues.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Loc,
The most common 'nice guy' flaws are:
- Difficulty differentiating between assertive and aggressive, and consequently conflict and combat. 
- The result is they avoid the healthy and necessary conflict needed in a marriage by letting things that 'seem small' slide. 

They dislike tension and often apologize or try to make peace, even when their partner has clearly treated them badly. 

This often results in their being gradually deprioritized. And their wives perception of them gradually changes from 'life partner and most valuable person' to servant. The resultant loss of respect totally kills her sexual desire. 

The suggestion below is intended to:
- Fair
- Harmless to your reputation 
- Begin your rehabilitation from servant to equal partner

Find a reputable massage clinic (not a sleazy place) and start going there for a weekly full body massage. Fund it by cutting back on both of your discretionary budgets. 

Don't ask her permission. Just start going. You need to tell her what you are doing and how it will be funded. 

If she tries to tie it back to a punishment for a sexless marriage just shrug. You don't owe her an explanation as to 'why' you are doing it. If she offers to give you a weekly massage to 'save the cost' just tell her: If you want us to give each other full body massages in addition to what I will be getting from this place, that is fine with me. It will however be additive, not a replacement for this activity. 

The next step will be to begin funding your kids college accounts. That step will require a conversation about the dollars involved and your requirement for her to contribute a certain amount of money per month. She can work at night or on the weekend so that you may watch the kids and avoid daycare costs. 

Your posture cannot be spiteful or vindictive. And you need to steer any conversations she starts about 'sex', back to: respect, fairness and priorities. 

I am guessing that you tend to talk way too much when she challenges you. Long and/or emotional justifications further cement the master/serf dynamic you two have created. 

Don't explain or justify. Instead ask her tough questions and repeat them. For example:
1. I work hard to support our family, why is it you think that you can challenge my decision to spend $60/week on a massage. 
Or 
2. Why is it that you are resistant to working 20 hours a week to contribute to the kids college funds? 

When she says stuff that seems unfair, self serving or untrue don't debate it. Just respond with: 'I disagree'. 

OTE=locrvaley;4607329]Thanks Mem

My responses:

How much sexual experience did each of you have before meeting each other? I had sex with 3 other girls. One was a one-night deal, the other 2 were girlfriends and we had frequent sex for the 6 months or so we were together.
She had sex with one guy who was her boyfriend. The sex was somewhat regular from what she told me.

Do you know what type of men she dated before you? She dated "nice guys" (like me). 

How adventurous were you/your wife when you had a sex life? On a scale from 1-10, 1 being missionary-only and 10 being some crazy XXX german porn, we were at a steady 6.


Was she open with you about what she liked/disliked in bed? Yes, from the beginning. That helped and is probably why our sex is always very good for both of us when we do it.

Did you try to understand what turned her on and equally what turned her off? Yes. I know what she likes and how to initiate, foreplay, etc. 

How much have you two physically changed in terms of fitness from the point at which you got engaged until now? We are both in good shape. Not much different looking now than our wedding photos.

Did your sex life change from frequent to almost never very fast or did that change happen gradually? Gradually for sure. Work, then kids changed our priorities, but most married people work and have kids. There's no physical illness or sex abuse past or anything that caused the drop off in sex. It just gradually came to a stop.


When you had sex, how much did she seem to enjoy it? YES. She still says she enjoys it and always reaches a powerful orgasm.

How much time would you typically spend on foreplay? 15-20 mins

Did you give her most of the foreplay, was it about even, or was she mostly giving you foreplay? Even

How long did intercourse typically last? about 30 mins[/QUOTE]


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm always so perplexed by these women who enjoy sex and have orgasms and cannot be bothered although they know they are neglecting their marriages by doing so.

I do things every day that I don't feel like doing. I feed my children and clean my house and go to the gym. I hate going to the gym, like every single moment of it - but after its over I'm never upset that I went.

I'm sure your wife and every other woman out there does things all the time that they might not feel like doing but are important.

None of the things I mentioned pay off like an orgasm and none of the things (save feeding and caring for children) are as meaningful as being the one who cares for those you love and being the one to nurture your marriage. You know - that agreement between two people to be each others sole romantic and sexual partner for the rest of your lives?


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

You have allowed this to go on for so long, that your wife does not take you seriously about it. Actions, not words, are all that's important.

She can SAY (words) all she wants that she knows she is wrong, that she knows sex is important, etc. etc. but her ACTIONS are still zero sex with you.

She knows the drill my man. You will raise a fuss now and again, she will placate you with words, maybe throw you a pity sex session, and then resume the sexless life she wants. You will still be there for her and the kids, you will still pay the mortgage, etc, and you will still miss out on one of life's true great pleasures.

BTW, I hope your realize that she WILL NEVER actually let you start banging someone else. Go ahead and cheat just once and see what happens if she finds out.

The only way you have any chance to change things are with her facing real consequences, i.e., Divorce.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Why isn't divorce an option? Yes, it can take a long time to get to that point, but why haven't you reached it? Is the relationship truly worth preserving under the circumstances. Would it really be better to stay and take her up on her offer to let you get satisfaction elsewhere? In some cases it can be, if everything else is good, I suppose, but of course there is some risk that those things will fade or that you'll want to leave to get it all in ONE person.


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## locrvaley (Oct 1, 2013)

I really appreciate all the feedback. Lots of interesting perspectives and idea for me. Many people ask me "why isn't divorce an option?"
The main reason is that everything else in our marriage is great. We get along fine, we care about eachother, we have fun together, etc.
Also, to be honest, I couldn't stand to be away from my kids for half a week or every other weekend or whatever.
The only thing missing in my marriage is the sex life. Yeah, that's a BIG thing to be completely non-existent, which is why I find myself in the situation I'm in.
If I could find some way to get basic physical satisfaction I'd be content... I'm just not sure how to manage an open marriage.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

locrvaley said:


> I'm just not sure how to manage an open marriage.


There are books on the subject, such as Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships: Tristan Taormino: 9781573442954: Amazon.com: Books , and web sites, such as polyamory.com/forum.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Loc,
So you believe that your wife respects you? 

I believe you are confusing 'getting along and having fun' with respect. 

And my guess is that this is almost entirely driven by your avoidance of 'real conflict' with her. 


OTE=locrvaley;4611489]I really appreciate all the feedback. Lots of interesting perspectives and idea for me. Many people ask me "why isn't divorce an option?"
The main reason is that everything else in our marriage is great. We get along fine, we care about eachother, we have fun together, etc.
Also, to be honest, I couldn't stand to be away from my kids for half a week or every other weekend or whatever.
The only thing missing in my marriage is the sex life. Yeah, that's a BIG thing to be completely non-existent, which is why I find myself in the situation I'm in.
If I could find some way to get basic physical satisfaction I'd be content... I'm just not sure how to manage an open marriage.[/QUOTE]


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Hicks said:


> Don't hook up with anyone else.
> 
> Currently your wife believes you want to use her body for sex, has no idea that sex to a man is about love and connection... And if you use a different woman for sex you will really reinforce and cement your wife's incorrect views on sex, love and marriage.


And that would make things worse how...?? He has nothing to lose at this point. I know your advice sounds nice, but it doesn't give the OP any options other than: "just stop complaining". 

I just don't understand why so many people on TAM think that open marriages are actually *worse* than divorce...


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Two suggestions come to mind:

1) Focus on the kids. If she loves the kids, she had better think about what it means for their future to be raising them in the context of the "marriage" she's created. Even if she doesn't care about her own marriage, she needs to be educated in the potentially lifelong damage she is causing them, and their future potential, or lack of potential, to partake of a loving, sexual marriage.

2) Your spouse's joy is your joy. Your spouse's sorrow is your sorrow. For some reason, you have failed to make your pain be your wife's pain. This might be because you seek to avoid the humiliation of repeated rejections. It might be because you have mis-applied the generally beneficial life strategy of focusing on the good & ignoring the bad. You must find ways to share your pain with your wife, *every day*, but I think this can only work if you can do so without anger. But don't be surprised if she becomes angry, and if that causes her to expose deeper darker problems, you might learn something. Is there some hidden reason she wants to drive you away? (The problem isn't that she's providing you with only "duty sex," she's actively destroying her marriage, so you can bet there's more going on here. Humm, maybe her parents messed her up: segue back to #1, above...?)

You might want to start by sharing with her the anguish she has caused you by suggesting you find someone else.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Forget about bringing your wife to this forum. Nothing anyone says here will change her attitude about having sex with her.

She's done with sex, and that's the cold hard fact you need to face.

Either divorce her- recommended- and find someone who does want to have sex with you, or take her up on her offer and go hook up with some random strangers, however don't even think about some sort of attachment to them because it's against your wife's seemingly arbitrary rules. 

Or go have sex with random strangers and when you DO get attached to them maybe you'll grow the balls needed to do what really needs to be done and that's divorce your wife.

Lots of people don't move on until they've got someone new. It's cowardly and weak but hey, at least you've got "permission" to take the first step so perhaps someday you can say to her "you made me do it!".


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you are going to seriously consider an open marriage, you need to think about some things.

Is this open just for you? Or is it open for her as well.

What are the laws in your state about adultery during divorce? IN some states you would be crucified if she decided that she does care after you have a few outside interests.

If it were me, I’d was a signed and notarized contract with my spouse saying that they agreed to an open marriage and the terms of it… such as it’s only one spouse or both spouses. That way if she then gets bent out of shape because you are cheating and files, you have proof that she agreed. I’m dead serious about this. Even if you live in a no fault state, she could sue your for any money you spent on your relationships and the judge will often add a financial penalty for you squandering marital assets on bimbos.

When a person continues behavior that they know is wrong, it’s because they are getting something out of continuing it. Your wife is exercising power over you by withholding sex. It’s a very strong way to emotionally abuse you. She can get you to do all kinds of things just by giving a small hint that some days she just might give you a bit of sex. 

The only way that you will break this pattern of hers is for you to take that power away from her. How do you do that? You make her think that she will lose you because of her withholding sex. But do not cheat or have an open marriage. Instead, just make her think that either you will go outside the marriage or that you will divorce her.

There is something called the “180” (not the 180 linked to below). Get the book “Divorce Busting” and read the section on the 180. 

Sometimes you have to make drastic changes to get what you want.





.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I've said it before in other threads. But once you start getting your intimacy needs met outside the marriage, you'll soon start getting your emotional needs met there too. It's the beginning of the end of your marriage. 

C


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> When a person continues behavior that they know is wrong, it’s because they are getting something out of continuing it. Your wife is exercising power over you by withholding sex. It’s a very strong way to emotionally abuse you.


Yes! And people don't become happy by being abusive. Might there be some sort of a dance of mutual suffering here? Be on the lookout for what sick need she might be filling. Might she fear you abandoning her, and simultaneously be prodding you to abandon her, because she feels she deserves to be abandoned, and ultimately punished herself?

"Go find someone else, I'm cool with it," sounds a lot more like something much darker....


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

An open marriage is a bad idea for many reasons.

The main one is there are not very many women who would accept being an unpaid prostitute to a married man, while the OP's wife will have no problem finding men to have sex with her.... What will OP feel like at that point?

The problem for OP is that he allows himself to think that everything is great in his marriage BUT FOR the lack of sex. And that if he "gets sex" somewhere else, then his life will be complete.

Guess what, this plan will have unintended consequences and it is doubtful that it involves the OP's life being complete.

There is a structural flaw in his marriage, where the wife has asserted her dominance and the husband has happily accepted it. Without correcting this structural flaw, there can not be a fufilling marriage.


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## ManOhMan2013 (Aug 1, 2013)

To the original poster (locrvaley), 
Wow, I feel your pain, man. I am going through the same thing. Only you and your wife tried to do something about it. I sure hope therapy will work for my wife and me if and when we go.

At least your wife admitted that she was not upholding her marriage vows. My wife believes she is infallible in every way.

I don't know if I would go outside the marriage to have sex. It's considered a sin. But I understand that you are starving for sex. I don't have any answer for you. Just know I feel for you and wish you and your wife the best.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Hicks said:


> An open marriage is a bad idea for many reasons.
> 
> The main one is there are not very many women who would accept being an unpaid prostitute to a married man, while


Believe it or not, plenty of people have sex with one another for mutual enjoyment. No one calls it being an "unpaid prostitute", that's a ridiculous term. Would you call the husband an "unpaid prostitute" as well?



> _the OP's wife will have no problem finding men to have sex with her.... What will OP feel like at that point?_


That's unlikely, since she has lost all interest in sex. Of course there are other random possibilities, such as the OP simply isn't her type, or maybe she prefers women now...



> _Guess what, this plan will have unintended consequences and it is doubtful that it involves the OP's life being complete._


Could be true, although I doubt he will feel "complete" by continuing in a sexless marriage also. Would he feel complete after a divorce? No idea, but he believes he wouldn't.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Theseus said:


> Believe it or not, plenty of people have sex with one another for mutual enjoyment. No one calls it being an "unpaid prostitute", that's a ridiculous term. Would you call the husband an "unpaid prostitute" as well?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why is it that men seem to have bad luck to find these sexual duds to marry when there are zillions of sexual women out there who just want to get off constantly?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

be a man and realise that she just isn't into you or love you in a sexual way.

so what are you going to do about it?

options.

1) keep crying to her that you need sex= equals week and needy
2)start doing for yourself....start exercising and going out by yourself and giving her the cold shoulder.
3)quit doing all the chores in hopes of getting a piece of a$$.
4)realsie that you will never be happy with someone who dosen't love you in a sexual way and start making the move to disolve your marriage.
5)accept it and slowly let the resentment grow until its unbarable then you will leave.


time to really man up life is no bucket of peaches and sometime no matter how hard you try things will not turn out for the best. Making the hard decissions take a man who knows himself and will make the decossions that he knows are best in the long run.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

She doesn't think you can pull another woman. She doesn't respect you.


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## Vernon64 (Sep 30, 2013)

locrvaley said:


> At one point, about a year ago, my wife admitted to me that she was not fulfilling her "to have and to hold" marriage vow and that she would let me have sex with someone else if that's what it took for us to stay married. Her logic was that I could "hook up" with someone, but I could not seek a relationship with another woman because other than sex my wife is there for me emotionally, as a companion, etc.
> I don't know if she thought that through completely before she said it to me, but now I'm wondering: Should I take her up on it or at least ask her about it again? I don't even know how I'd go about bringing up something like that!


WOW! Your story resonates with me (have a look at my situation - "Married 24 years and have no attraction for my wife". 

I think we have both gone through very similar experiences. Rightly or wrongly what I did was to find comfort with other women without my wife's blessing. I wish you luck - I know how you feel when you say divorce is not an option. My wife is my best friend, soulmate and I certainly cannot divorce her simply because she has zero sexdrive.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

This thread and many others have made me wonder. Why do the LD spouses fear divorce so much when it has become abundantly clear that the relationship has devolved to being glorified roommates?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

tyler1978 said:


> This thread and many others have made me wonder. Why do the LD spouses fear divorce so much when it has become abundantly clear that the relationship has devolved to being glorified roommates?


Why do they fear divorce so much? Because they fear the stigma and financial uncertainty of a divorce just as much as the HD spouse does. 

C


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

PBear said:


> Why do they fear divorce so much? Because they fear the stigma and financial uncertainty of a divorce just as much as the HD spouse does.
> 
> C


I understand that. If the wife and I did not have a house, I would have moved on. We have had sex probably 30 times in the last 2.5 years. From 6 am to 7 pm, we are essentially separate island.

My guess is that a divorce would force the issue out into the open. It is hard to talk about this issue with anybody but your closest friends. However, if the relationship has devolved to this point why continue the charade?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

tyler1978 said:


> I understand that. If the wife and I did not have a house, I would have moved on. We have had sex probably 30 times in the last 2.5 years. From 6 am to 7 pm, we are essentially separate island.
> 
> My guess is that a divorce would force the issue out into the open. It is hard to talk about this issue with anybody but your closest friends. However, if the relationship has devolved to this point why continue the charade?


The LD spouse doesn't have a problem, if you'd ask them. I mean, if the other spouse would stop nagging them for sex all the time (aka "once a week pity sex"), everything would be perfect! So why should they upheave their lives just to get their spouse to stop nagging them?

C


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

PBear said:


> The LD spouse doesn't have a problem, if you'd ask them. I mean, if the other spouse would stop nagging them for sex all the time (aka "once a week pity sex"), everything would be perfect! So why should they upheave their lives just to get their spouse to stop nagging them?
> 
> C


Then i would ask if it is really a marriage if the sex is nonexistent or not mutually desired? If it is just friends or roommates then why not just admit it?

I have stopped initiating and have not had sex in 14 weeks. Life has went on the same as it did before. If i was to tell someone that she is my roommate, they would believe me.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

tyler1978 said:


> Then i would ask if it is really a marriage if the sex is nonexistent or not mutually desired? If it is just friends or roommates then why not just admit it?
> 
> I have stopped initiating and have not had sex in 14 weeks. Life has went on the same as it did before. If i was to tell someone that she is my roommate, they would believe me.


You're still not thinking with the mindset of a LD person. To them, sex isn't an essential part of the marriage. They "love" their spouse, and they show it by being nice, making dinner, mowing the lawn, whatever. Sex just isn't on their radar, either as something they miss or something they should be concerned about providing. So if you think you're proving a point by not initiating or getting upset about the lack of sex in your marriage, you'll be waiting a LONG time for her to come and apologize, most likely.

My SO finally stopped trying to initiate sex with her ex because she was always getting rejected. They went 2 YEARS, and he never once raised the issue.

C


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

PBear said:


> You're still not thinking with the mindset of a LD person. To them, sex isn't an essential part of the marriage. They "love" their spouse, and they show it by being nice, making dinner, mowing the lawn, whatever. Sex just isn't on their radar, either as something they miss or something they should be concerned about providing. So if you think you're proving a point by not initiating or getting upset about the lack of sex in your marriage, you'll be waiting a LONG time for her to come and apologize, most likely.
> 
> My SO finally stopped trying to initiate sex with her ex because she was always getting rejected. They went 2 YEARS, and he never once raised the issue.
> 
> C


If we are not having sex then how is my relationship with her any different from that of my office staff? They see more of me than she does. I have complained about her indifference on other threads and so will spare you this time. Marriage is not about simply existing in the same space. Maybe that is a wrong assumption on my part. I was also under the incorrect assumption that we try to fulfill each other and so on.

Regardless of which side you are on (LD or HD) both parties know going into it that sex is part of the marriage experience. It is meaningless then why care about infidelity.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

tyler1978 said:


> If we are not having sex then how is my relationship with her any different from that of my office staff? They see more of me than she does. I have complained about her indifference on other threads and so will spare you this time. Marriage is not about simply existing in the same space. Maybe that is a wrong assumption on my part. I was also under the incorrect assumption that we try to fulfill each other and so on.
> 
> Regardless of which side you are on (LD or HD) both parties know going into it that sex is part of the marriage experience. It is meaningless then why care about infidelity.


I agree with you 100%. I left my marriage, in a large part due to my wife's unwillingness to work on fixing our intimacy issues. To me (like you), a marriage without sex is not a marriage, it is a room-mate situation. And if one spouse (aka my STBXW) unilaterally shuts down the sex life in a marriage, she's guilty of breaking her marriage vows.

So the real question is, what are you willing to do about it? Stay locked in a room-mate situation because you have a house? Or break the lease/mortgage and move on? 

C


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

PBear said:


> I agree with you 100%. I left my marriage, in a large part due to my wife's unwillingness to work on fixing our intimacy issues. To me (like you), a marriage without sex is not a marriage, it is a room-mate situation. And if one spouse (aka my STBXW) unilaterally shuts down the sex life in a marriage, she's guilty of breaking her marriage vows.
> 
> So the real question is, what are you willing to do about it? Stay locked in a room-mate situation because you have a house? Or break the lease/mortgage and move on?
> 
> C


I only mentioned the house but we also have a child on the way. Even before the pregnancy, sex was rare and when it did happen it lasted five minutes or less. To answer your question, I am going to give it one last shot and then start planning the exit strategy. I am excited about being dad but being husband I am becoming indifferent about. If it does not work out, I have some ideas such as living in one of the spare bedrooms and making a second house payment until for a few years. this would give me the interaction with my child as well. Probably a flawed idea but we shall see how it goes. We could stop the charade of saying that we are married.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Loc,
> The most common 'nice guy' flaws are:
> - Difficulty differentiating between assertive and aggressive, and consequently conflict and combat.
> - The result is they avoid the healthy and necessary conflict needed in a marriage by letting things that 'seem small' slide.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

If my H did the above, we would be headed for divorce pretty quickly. Who is to say he works harder than she does? And where does he get the power to dictate the family budget and she has no say? Sorry this will inflame the situation in my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

locrvaley said:


> This is my first time posting on this forum, so hopefully I'm doing this right. Here goes...


Seems like you've gotten a good diversity of suggestions. Some are surely right or wrong for your situation or many situations. One problem I've seen with TAM is not enough reporting back. Lots of things may sound great, or terrible, IN THEORY, but that's where it seems to end. It would be great if you and others would report back over the weeks...months...years which approaches you took to your problems, and how things progressed. Good luck!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tyler,
You are for sure right that in a healthy marriage both folks make a good faith effort to meet each other's needs and avoid causing each other distress. 

I saw a study recently that found a high correlation between relationship stability and sexlessness. The more confident your partner is you will stay, the less effort they put into trying to please you. 




tyler1978 said:


> If we are not having sex then how is my relationship with her any different from that of my office staff? They see more of me than she does. I have complained about her indifference on other threads and so will spare you this time. Marriage is not about simply existing in the same space. Maybe that is a wrong assumption on my part. I was also under the incorrect assumption that we try to fulfill each other and so on.
> 
> Regardless of which side you are on (LD or HD) both parties know going into it that sex is part of the marriage experience. It is meaningless then why care about infidelity.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tea,
You proved the point and I am not being snarky. 

The anger you would feel having your finances dictated by your spouse is no different than the anger he feels at his wife for forcing him to choose between a sexless marriage and access to his children. 

As for their respective levels of effort, they should create a schedule that provides each of them with the same amount of free time. And my suggestion was that their discretionary spend should be equal to one another's. 

Let's be honest here, it sure sounds like she has let him take on more and more total workload with the vague statement that it 'might' improve their sex life. He was weak to go for it, and she has been predatory letting it continue knowing it has made no difference. Actually - it worsened the situation. 

He is an inexperienced guy who doesn't even realize that their sexless marriage makes her more vulnerable to have an affair. 


If my H did the above, we would be headed for divorce pretty quickly. Who is to say he works harder than she does? And where does he get the power to dictate the family budget and she has no say? Sorry this will inflame the situation in my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


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## testr72 (Jan 15, 2013)

Im in the same situation as OP we are only intimate maybe once a month, between that theres no intimacy , i mean no hugging, no kissing.
We discussed it and now shes more open to hugging. weird huh?

Im still deciding what to do in my situation but leaving or seeing someone else on the side are both legit options. This is not something I want to do but it might be necessary to save my mind and my sexuality. 

This site has been great in helping me with different advice and also realizing that im not alone


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Tyler,
> You are for sure right that in a healthy marriage both folks make a good faith effort to meet each other's needs and avoid causing each other distress.
> 
> I saw a study recently that found a high correlation between relationship stability and sexlessness. The more confident your partner is you will stay, the less effort they put into trying to please you.


In short, I am going to wait out the pregnancy and give it six months to a year. If she is still as cold and indifferent about the idea, then I am moving on. That is not a good thing to do to my child but it can not benefit them to grow up with parents in a sexless/loveless marriage. About our house, I will just make a second house payment and help get it paid off quicker.


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## soulsearch (Aug 2, 2013)

*Re: Re: In a sexless marriage and out of options*



MissScarlett said:


> I do things every day that I don't feel like doing. I feed my children and clean my house and go to the gym. I hate going to the gym, like every single moment of it - but after its over I'm never upset that I went.


see.... that's the thing... I don't care if she is willing to do my wildest fantasies multiple times a day, if it's doing something because she sees it as yet another chore that must be checked off the list, I don't want it. 

I want lust. I want passion. I want a partner that equals my desire for them, that cares about me so deeply that they seek to please me. I want someone who desires to fulfill me as I desire to fulfill them.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

locrvaley said:


> This is my first time posting on this forum, so hopefully I'm doing this right. Here goes:
> 
> Been married for 10 years. My wife and I have 2 wonderful young kids. We get along great and really enjoy eachother's company. But, as my title states, we have zero sex life.
> 
> ...



Wow, welcome to the club and you aren't alone.

Having sex and intimacy 8x in 4 years??? For real???

That's horrible and how can your wife, still say she loves you and doesn't want to divorce?!

Is she seeing someone else?

I've had numerous talks with my wife and the sex is good for 1 month and then almost nothing, just like you.

I've got the same excuses you are getting and my wife is going to therapy, etc.

Why do the ladies make sex sound so difficult? Sex is simple and easy. You want to have sex, so have sex already. It doesn't have to be marathon sex if she works and raises kids. It could be 5+ minute quickies. Toys and vibrators will help too. Watch adult material that will turn her on but she has to do this alone and find out what she likes.

If you take her up on the offer to have sex with another woman, you will be divorced. She is just saying this and really doesn't mean it. 

Sex isn't a duty or chore. It's a beautiful connection that a hubby and wifee share because it connects you in so many ways. If its a duty and chore to her, she has issues.


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## testr72 (Jan 15, 2013)

Ugh ....why do they make this so difficult? Sex is not quantum physics, its natural and it is to be enjoyed....

why is it so difficult....just do it!

A LD woman is denying her husband one of the best experiences in life.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

I am convinced that there is no cure in these situations, the Deniers in a sexless marriage seem unable to change no matter what the denied tries. I have been through it, to the very bitter end, and my advice now to anyone in a sexless marriage is to try the obvious things, and if they don't work, then run. Just run. Life is too fcuking short, I've lost over a decade of my life, it ruined me, now that I've delaminated from her, I feel better already. In the end, my situation grew to consume my.mind, every moment of every day. I felt worthless, unneeded, unwanted, and felt like quasimodo. I'm still gripped with a need to know "why?" Why did she put me through it? What the hell just happened for 10 years? What are the answers? Why was I not good enough? But I know I'll never get an answer, she can't even admit to herself there was a problem, I think deniers are incapable of empathy, and even when you explain in plain English your feelings, they literally can't u.understand what you are saying
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Onzo (Sep 23, 2013)

I ve been on the same boat like you and am glad currently stuff seems to be truning out fine again after I made up my mind to actually leave.

The problem I believe you are having is that you are taking her too serious which moves both of you more apart than one would believe.
I also have gone through years of therapy and hours of conversations about the lack of sex.

Finally I have come to the concent that fixing sexual issues that arent health related on a rational and concious level DOES NOT WORK!

So whatever you are doing that adresses the problem is wrong. you have to negelct the problem by all means and find out on which subconcious level your wife is sexually triggerd.



> At one point, about a year ago, my wife admitted to me that she was not fulfilling her "to have and to hold" marriage vow and that she would let me have sex with someone else if that's what it took for us to stay married. Her logic was that I could "hook up" with someone, but I could not seek a relationship with another woman because other than sex my wife is there for me emotionally, as a companion, etc.
> I don't know if she thought that through completely before she said it to me, but now I'm wondering: Should I take her up on it or at least ask her about it again? I don't even know how I'd go about bringing up something like that!


You know what? this is the biggest sign you have been taking her so serious that she cant take you serious anymore. 
In my point of view, you asking her and trying to get answers is the foolishest thing you can do here. My wife offered me the same about a year ago and actually what just happend is that the more I needed to understand how she had reached to this point the more I had the feeling it was breaking us apart.

So, you are just going on your wifes nerves and she needs you to get whatever you want, but because she aint attracted to you anymore, she is fine with you getting pleasure outside as long as your home, you family and your role as a provider arent shaken (*this also called securing the comfort zone*).
She has moved on into the mother role, not only for her kids, but also for you. She needs her new son to leave her alone and get some sex somewhere else.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

It all rides on you, you have to do what you see fit.

I believe these situations are basically acceptance by the wife... 

Similar to a man accepting their job... deep down you know if you really wanted you could get a better job, make more money and make your wife happier... but you like your job and don't want the "hassle" of writing a resume, getting letters of reference, taking your spare time to apply and do interviews... its work! And what you have is good enough and that job may have you do more.

I think wives that are sexless look at sex the same way. Sure it could be better make your husband happier but alas its work and they prefer sleep. Reigniting a sex life requires them to do more.

Then you get to the fed up factor, been there tried that so basically no movement occurs on both ends.

You are both accepting of the current status quo. One of you must do the "work" yet neither of you do so as to not get shafted.

Its a sad reality in longer term marriages... there is no good answer. I wish you luck.

Wives simply don't get they have so much power (To improve their lives) for sparingly 15 minutes of sacrifice on their part once in a while... they are lazy and prevent their husbands form trying to better themselves for them. Who wants to work and bust your ass for someone who won't want to have sex with you?

So you do the basics nothing more...lose lose

So much time and opportunity wasted as soon a sex (a basic) is compromised there are no winners in that scenario, just accepting of the situation

The wives are mostly at fault because they took what was a basic and removed it... compromising all they are not logical at all.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Sorry man, I'm married to a similar person. It will get better for awhile and then back to the status quo. Assuming that you are holding up your end of the marriage bargain, this type of woman doesn't give two ****s about your happiness. They will have a ton of excuses to justify their poor behavior but in the end you have the choice - 1. remain in the vicious cycle and be unhappy or cheat or 2. divorce. None of these options are appealing but like others in your situation and as with life general you made a mistake in marrying this person and these are the consequences.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

You're staying for the kids and that's understandable but don't kid yourself into thinking "everything else is great" when it isn't. If it was great you wouldn't be here asking for advice. I understand how you feel and it's ok to say it. Your marriage sucks. 



locrvaley said:


> I really appreciate all the feedback. Lots of interesting perspectives and idea for me. Many people ask me "why isn't divorce an option?"
> The main reason is that everything else in our marriage is great. We get along fine, we care about eachother, we have fun together, etc.
> Also, to be honest, I couldn't stand to be away from my kids for half a week or every other weekend or whatever.
> The only thing missing in my marriage is the sex life. Yeah, that's a BIG thing to be completely non-existent, which is why I find myself in the situation I'm in.
> If I could find some way to get basic physical satisfaction I'd be content... I'm just not sure how to manage an open marriage.


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## rdl3 (Oct 7, 2013)

I think it is important that you have gone through all of these steps with your wife and through various counseling methods. It seems like you are both going to have to keep working hard because you want this marriage to last for life. Have you or your wife considered seeing a sexologist?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

With all due respect no "oligist" can fix this. His wife doesn't want sex. This example plays out all over the world. You get married, have kids then she stops. No explanation. No reason. Just stops.

She will never get it back. And on the off chance that she does you'll probably be so far gone in resentment that it wont matter.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

sinnister said:


> With all due respect no "oligist" can fix this. His wife doesn't want sex. This example plays out all over the world. You get married, have kids then she stops. No explanation. No reason. Just stops.
> 
> She will never get it back. And on the off chance that she does you'll probably be so far gone in resentment that it wont matter.



Amen brother, you're speaking to the choir.:smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

tyler1978 said:


> This thread and many others have made me wonder. Why do the LD spouses fear divorce so much when it has become abundantly clear that the relationship has devolved to being glorified roommates?


I think the key here is to understand that not everyone has the same marriage ideals. There have been a number of folks that think sex is unimportant and for whom marriage as two good friends growing old together is bliss.

My $0.02:

The truly LD spouse (and by that I don't mean unattracted to the spouse but instead truly does not care for sex, damaged from abuse, etc.) knows that they are a minority. Their reasons for marriage are not romantic love.

The truly LD spouse knows that the odds of finding someone like-minded are fairly slim, esp. if they have been married and have kids and other responsibilities. Imagine an LD person saying basically "I want someone who will be loyal to me, care for me, and partner with me in the responsibilities of life, but no sex". There won't be many takers for that situation.

So the LD person perceives they have a choice between sticking around and being alone. (I am going to ignore the third option - that an LD person would knowingly trap a higher driver person in marriage). And given the relatively small pool of LD folks, they find it preferable to stay put and hold out as long as they can.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

PBear said:


> Why do they fear divorce so much? Because they fear the stigma and financial uncertainty of a divorce just as much as the HD spouse does.
> 
> C


And, given that truly LD folks are a minority, they will (all else being equal) have a harder time finding a replacement partner. They perceive that moving on will less likely mean moving on to another partner and more likely mean moving on alone (and for good reason).


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Let's be honest here, it sure sounds like she has let him take on more and more total workload with the vague statement that it 'might' improve their sex life. He was weak to go for it, and she has been predatory letting it continue knowing it has made no difference. Actually - it worsened the situation.


This is the key. She knew she would not want more sex, but let him think that doing more would give him a shot.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Wives simply don't get they have so much power (To improve their lives) for sparingly 15 minutes of sacrifice on their part once in a while... they are lazy and prevent their husbands form trying to better themselves for them. Who wants to work and bust your ass for someone who won't want to have sex with you?


You are missing a critical piece of the puzzle. The issue is that the LD partners who do this see their own wants and needs as superior to those of their spouses.

You're here a lot. So, you see the LD partners who say "yes he or she does a lot for me, but we're talking about giving my body here" and "he or she has no idea how it feels when you've been used". There also are people who feel sex is immoral and their partners are weak for needing it.

If you look at these issues closely, you'll see that many of them are LD people saying "If I don't provide good sex my partner treats me differently" or HD people saying "my spouse won't have sex but demands the things he or she does value".

So, that the LD partner won't provide the 15 minutes of sex is just the symptom. The root problem the LD spouse lacking respect and generousity. The hypothetical wife would not simply rather sleep than have sex; she also does not respect her husband enough to consider his needs equal to her own.


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## emerson76 (Jan 31, 2013)

What kind of woman do you think you're going to get to have sex with you outside of your marriage? Probably not a very sane female with high morals. I would never have sex with a married man and women who do - most likely have some issues. If you're unhappy and you've tried everything to get sex from your wife - I would throw out the divorce card. How hard is it for her to just lay in bed and let you have her way with her anyways? I was in a sexless married and we had no kids! I have since divorced this man and now am enjoying flirting and being physical with a new man. Seriously, life is too short. We are human beings who need sexual touch and intimacy. I'm a woman and I could not be in a sexless marriage. Best of luck and sorry you're not getting any. Gawd, I'm so glad I got out of my marriage!


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am not going to give you much sympathy. YOU are responsible for your situation. YOU have allowed it to remain. If you are unwilling to leave her, nothing will change. I have my doubts they will change anyway; but they are certain to remain bad if you don't actually force the issue. You've already be told to scale back on these extra things you took on. You've been advised about the 180.

Stop whinning and DO something!

Rant over.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You won't fix this. She's selfish and that's just the way it is. Your needs mean nothing to her. You are a living, breathing, ATM machine. I'd stick around until my kids were beyond the developmental stage where they need a close father presence and then I'd be out of there and be the best divorced father I could be. I wouldn't get married again. An employed, single guy won't have any trouble getting all the sex he can stand. Odds are very good that if you latch on to another one, you'll end up exactly where you are right now.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Well, the last time I suggested this I got lambasted, but it's my opinion that the absolute worst thing to do is nothing. As such, I would stop contributing to the parts of the marriage that are uncomfortable for you until she starts stepping up. Ideas:

1. If you don't enjoy making the bed, don't do it.
2. If you pay your wife's bills or give your wife spending money, don't do it anymore.
3. If you don't enjoy doing dishes, don't do them anymore.
4. Take a trip by yourself to some place you would enjoy if you were single (but don't cheat while you are there, that's not what this is about).
5. Cash advance to the max any joint credit cards and keep the money buried or in a safe deposit box in the event of divorce.
6. If you don't enjoy your job, quit.
7. Make a large purchase of something you've always wanted but wasn't practical in the past.

etc, etc.


The beauty of this plan is it guarantees that this nonsense will not continue forever. Your wife will either step up, or she will be filing for divorce.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Your wife needs to smarten the hell up. Throwing your entire life into your kids is not healthy.

I will make the same suggestion I made to someone else whose wife suggested he gets blow jobs somewhere else. Sit down at the computer and invite your wife to sit down with you. Bring up Adult Friend Finder and Sexsearch and make up profiles, asking for her input. Get her to help you post what you're looking for. Ask her what type of photo you should post of yourself - close up of an erection, or a full body nude shot? Ask her where you can meet these women that answer your ad (Can you have the bedroom one weekend afternoon a week? Or do you have to get a hotel room?), and how much you can have out of the household budget to pay them, because chances are you're only going to get emotionless sex from hookers.


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