# WH wants to expose AP 7 months after NC



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Husband and are in R 7 months after NC w/OW. We have been doing great. I had a major trigger (3 stupid thing that all were reminders at the same time, so a bit more than I could handle). I had a drink, got emotional, and when he got home from practice, I started a whole mess that in my mind didn't seem unreasonable, but now as I look on it, it was bad. We stayed up until 4:30 AM - and now he is seriously depressed again because I lashed out at him and told him how disappointed I was and angry from my trigger, but that I knew it was contradicting how I fee about us now - I am happy with us and feel good about us, but I just sent him back to where he felt from our new beginning - like he has done nothing right (even though he has), and he can't ever redeem himself. That was Monday night. This morning he told me that he almost contacted OW and her BF, but stopped. I asked him why, and he said because he wants them to hurt as much as we are. I told him they will have a miserable life, and we have overcome and ours can be great if we both get our heads out of our butts and seeing what we have and how far we have come. I think he is struggling with closure now and is maybe going trough another stage of his grief. He can't concentrate at work and says he is going to see a Dr. I know he is depressed. Yes, I am the BS, but how do I help my WH who is undeniably depressed because of his affair, more remorseful than I have ever seen, and who I think needs closure. Besides getting a doctors help, what does he do? Closure - how does he do it, is it a good thing? I am lost.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Closure for the cheater is BS - it doesn't exist. Affairs only end one way and that's badly. It's part of the price you pay for cheating. I convinced my wife that I needed closure to and she let me try - you can't get it - it's just not there. Tell him to slam the door, throw away the key and focus on you. And tell him that if contacts the OW to tell her anything - anything at all that it's a deal breaker. If you want to reveal it to her BF that's your call - not his. If he has the only antidote to cure a deadly disease she has he can't contact her - period the end. 

If he needs a counselor or a doctor help him find one but in my experience the quickest way to recover from such a massive screw up as having an affair is to bust your ass to make it as right as you can - worked for me for the most part.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Is he in individual counseling? Keep talking about things, honestly, let him know how you really feel. Be sure to point out the positive developments in your relationships, but don't gloss over your negative feelings either. He made some horrible, awful choices, it'll take time.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I should have put this in my post - the other night (I did cause that one) I said some bad stuff, and he said something bad back - that wasn't even an issue - but I said "So your final words to her were "Take Care", and I get this - the woman you are supposed to love. Yep - tha made it sound like I was questioning his love for me now (I forgot about that). Then the next day I told him that it would have been ideal if his last words to her were FU B**ch, but it is too late for that, so I will settle for knowing that in so many words and stopping contact, he did tell her goodbye – you are out of my life. You are not who or what is important.

Typing that - In so many words I guess I told him that I was not sure he loved me now and that for me to feel better he needed to tell her off?!?


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

...and he did not say he needed closure - that is just an assumption/question on my part.....maybe I am just hindering our recovery. I am thinking my actions from the other night pushed him to even considering that.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

He's not happy so he wants his AP to be unhappy?

Methinks he's still too invested in her.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

If he needs a counselor or a doctor help him find one but in my experience the quickest way to recover from such a massive screw up as having an affair is to bust your ass to make it as right as you can - worked for me for the most part.[/QUOTE]

Sigma - I think he has been - and maybe I have not been seeing it so much because of how badly he hurt me. Does that happen?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Shouldn't the OW's bf been told already? The poor fellow!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Im curious, why would he call her a b*tch and tell her off.
Did she try to cause trouble during your R ?


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

abitlost said:


> Im curious, why would he call her a b*tch and tell her off.
> Did she try to cause trouble during your R ?


No - what I said to him yesterday was that it would have been ideal if his last words to her 7 months ago were those instead of "take care". There has not been anything from her during R except for once she tried to befriend one of his cousins on FB and she did not accept her. That was about 2 weeks after he last texted her.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

I would be very concerned that he still wants to contact her. She is NOT a part of your R. He needs to worry less about her and more about you.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> He's not happy so he wants his AP to be unhappy?
> 
> Methinks he's still too invested in her.



Not really. With us he is happy - with how things have been going he is happy - and he has been doing everything that he should be doing. I badly triggered the other night and brought a lot of stuff up and said a lot of things and told him he should have told her off with his last contact to her instead of texting "take care". I think he wants her to experience pain and loss much like I did - and he completely owns what he did, but she did some nasty things after the fact too - contacting our parents directly leaving very nasty voicemails and emails, just to try and put the final nail in the coffin so to speak. I showed pain and anger the other night. Just residual from a trigger - not how I feel about us now. I was drinking, so I know that played a role. It was nothing he presently did that made me trigger. I looked through old pictures, heard her name on a show - sober I would have been fine with it.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Zanna said:


> I would be very concerned that he still wants to contact her. She is NOT a part of your R. He needs to worry less about her and more about you.


He hasn't wanted to, up until I said all of those things - and then he said he wanted to contact both of them - not just her. I think I really put him through the ringer the other night. Crap.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

So her partner has no idea she had an affair?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

And you, have you ever gotten really mad about this, other than the other night? Like edge of control, stream of consciousness yelling mad?


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> He hasn't wanted to, up until I said all of those things - and then he said he wanted to contact both of them - not just her. I think I really put him through the ringer the other night. Crap.



You're in R. Recovery has it ups and downs. One step forward, two back. It's not linear. If he's read about it, he should know this...

It's not your fault and you did not put him through the ringer. He put you through the ringer.

But her BF should have been told about the A. He has a right to know so he can decide on R or breaking up with her and moving on. His life, his choice and OW stole that from him by letting him live a lie. But if anyone is going to expose, it's to BF. No one needs to speak to OW, including you and definitely not your H.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

It sounds like his response was one of "impulse" and wanting to lash out which is never the right one. What is important is the R of here and now. As Sigma said, it's going to be ugly when a affair ends, it's supposed to be. 

The good thing is he told you his impulse, and together you can deal with it but letting her have any influence on you both now is not the way to healing. Don't give her that power. 

Did you guys expose to her BF? 

Don't even get me started on the "long goodbyes' of the ending of the affair.....my spouse wrote the worlds _worst_ NC letter ever. In fact it should be used as the model of what not to say to your AP when it's over........it reads like something out of a Romeo & Juliet moment..... and the final line was.......wait for it.....

"this was really hard and I don't want it to end, take care (k) " 


gag....and of couse she followed up with a "godbye my love"


How I wish there could have been a _do over_ on that NC letter.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Husband thinks he knows something was going on at the time - supposedly she was not happy with him (or so she says), however, he does not think he really knows what happened and doubts that she ever told him. They live across the country and she used his credit cards to get out here, stay, etc. Maybe he does, but if so, not from either of us. I have a whole other thread of me wanting to contact him - first as revenge and then as an obligation. I settled on my family comes first and I don't want her in our lives ever again.

I think my words and actions the other night said otherwise - I was drunk. I screwed up that one.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I think you allowed a screw up eh?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Sigma - I think he has been - and maybe I have not been seeing it so much because of how badly he hurt me. Does that happen?


Oh yes that happens. My wife said basically the same thing to me - "why can't you just tell her to go F herself." I had a bunch of lame excuses - the bottom line is I was - as has been said - still to invested in her to be mean to her when I was still in contact with her. By the time I was capable of telling her to jump off a bridge no contact was long since established and not remotely worth breaking. 

You triggered and vented - he doesn't get to pout about that and he damn sure doesn't get to threaten to contact the OW every time you beat him up a little. This is all part of the price of cheating - he needs to man up and pay it. Yes you need to re-enforce his good behavior but you also have the right to trigger and go batsh!t on him once in a while. 

The fact that he would even think about contacting her, let alone tell you that, is worrisome. He needs to understand that as far as he is concerned she does not exist and that there is zero justifiable reason for him to contact her.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

[*QUOTE=daggeredheart;1094802]It sounds like his response was one of "impulse" and wanting to lash out which is never the right one. What is important is the R of here and now. As Sigma said, it's going to be ugly when a affair ends, it's supposed to be. * I think what I pointed out the other night was that it was just ugly on our end - all the crap that we had to deal with , what I had to deal with...and she got a "take care". Yes no furher contact, but hardly nasty last words.

*The good thing is he told you his impulse, and together you can deal with it but letting her have any influence on you both now is not the way to healing. Don't give her that power.* - I agree

*Did you guys expose to her BF?* No. I mean - why would a man having an affair expose himself to the BF of the OW. I didn't because I told myself I would wait it out and did not want herback in our lives or threatening us in ny way. My husband did say he thought about telling him a couple of times (after he ended it), but never did because he didn't want her back in the picture.




*How I wish there could have been a _do over_ on that NC letter.[/QUOTE]* Wow - no doubt! So you must understand a little where I was coming from the other night - nasty and mean would have made you feel better. Now we settle for, at least it was done. I wish I could take my words back though.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

*


sigma1299 said:



Oh yes that happens. My wife said basically the same thing to me - "why can't you just tell her to go F herself."

Click to expand...

*


sigma1299 said:


> I know he wants to do that and probably more, but he knows that contact is a dealbreaker for s....so he told me that is how he felt but he ddn't. I am pretty sure that he hates her even more every time he sees me trigger - not a bad thing for me, but seeing me trigger makes him trigger too I think and it kills him to see me still going though it. He hates her, I do not doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 He told me to never say her name in front of him again. Not that I could not feel anything, and told me I had every right to, but please don't ever say her name again. I let it slip the other night and he almost exploded. He hates her. I don't have a problem with that.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Not sure what happened to that response - let me try again:

About telling her to F off...

I know he wants to do that and probably more, but he knows that contact is a dealbreaker for us....so he told me he wanted to contact them, but he didn't. He knows that contact is a dealbreaker for us. I am pretty sure that he hates her even more every time he sees me trigger - not a bad thing for me, but seeing me trigger makes him trigger too I think, and it kills him to see me still going though it. He hates her, I do not doubt that.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> He told me to never say her name in front of him again. Not that I could not feel anything, and told me I had every right to, but please don't ever say her name again. I let it slip the other night and he almost exploded. He hates her. I don't have a problem with that.


So now HE'S making demands?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You should point out to WH that you can't make someone else feel your pain, so don't bother trying. And it was His choice to cause this mess, I'm sure the ow didn't hold a gun to a baby's head! There are consequences to actions, and these are his consequences. You are doing your best, he is doing his, but powerful feelings are going to well up from time to time. Don't feel too bad for him, by the way, its good for him to see with his own eyes the hurt and anger you have. It will help him realize how his actions have affected your marriage.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I think what you told him after you recovered from your trigger was right on. 

I understand that he is struggling. I'm sure you've read here that reconciliation is a roller coaster - that goes for the cheater to. If he's truly remorseful he's got a tough recovery, just like you do, and he'll go through lots of his own gyrations. If he's truly remorseful and a good man other than this screw up this will have shattered his image of himself. He'll have to pick that back up, deal with the fact that he may not be exactly who he thought he was, and put the pieces back together. He will likely never be entirely whole again. You give up a piece of your soul when you cheat - over two years out I haven't found the piece of mine yet and I doubt I ever will. I'm fine and will continue to be so, but that piece of me will always be gone. 

And remember this. His pain is self inflicted. He chose to cheat, he did this to you and to himself. Part of what he owes you as his wife who wants to reconcile is to get through his own pain to be there for you and move forward together.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

You know I can certainly understand if YOU wanted to out her. BUT for him to want to do it- I find ODD. Truly Odd. I'd think he would want as far from her and any dealings with her as possible -7 mos after NC is established. Are we sure he's not trying to find an excuse to pull her back into his world??? Just a question. I know if my H suddenly decided that his AP NOW needed to be outted and he was gonna do it- Yeah, I'd be concerned.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

* If he's truly remorseful and a good man other than this screw up this will have shattered his image of himself. He'll have to pick that back up, deal with the fact that he may not be exactly who he thought he was, and put the pieces back together. He will likely never be entirely whole again. You give up a piece of your soul when you cheat* - Yes - and some of his words recently:

"I'm sorry for the things I've done to you (my name) but I'm really sorry for the mean things I said to you that night you came home. I love you and all I can say is that I'm sorry and I ruined what we had and I ruined us as individuals. All we have is the now because everything from the past has been stained. We can be great again. But we both have been changed and I'm sorry for causing that. It will never be about me again. "

"You have every right to your feelings"

"I'm going to give myself a stroke, I feel when things finally get right I'll probably die for my punishment"

"You have nothing to be sorry about. I am the one who is sorry for what I did"


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

[*QUOTE=canttrustu;1094886]You know I can certainly understand if YOU wanted to out her. BUT for him to want to do it- I find ODD. Truly Odd. I'd think he would want as far from her and any dealings with her as possible -7 mos after NC is established. Are we sure he's not trying to find an excuse to pull her back into his world??? Just a question. I know if my H suddenly decided that his AP NOW needed to be outted and he was gonna do it- Yeah, I'd be concerned.[/QUOTE]* I am sure. He saw me trigger badly 7 months out and he was angry with himself and angry with her and angry that he did not end it with a nasty gram like I said I wished he had. I honestly feel like I pushed him. Thank God he did not an he told me.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Didn't have much of a chance to talk last night because he had school and got home late. Wanting to expose - that was just an impulse feeling for hating what he did to me and our family. I asked him if we were good and he said yes. His struggles are not with us, they are with himself. He said he was thinking he was doing better - not forgiving himself yet and still not knowing if he ever will, but getting to where he was not beating himself up every second and being productive again. Then Monday night brought it all back and how much he is disgusted with himself. 

Then he told me some of the topics they discussed in class last night - and I looked at his syllabus - they have a paper to do on ethics what makes a person good or bad, their decisions, etc......what timing. So I told him that I was ready to listen to him, to be there for him and to support him wth his struggles. If he can get through that, we can be great. We were doing so good, and I had a crappy night and said thre wrong things you should not say in R, and now here we are. 

I am not a victim of his affair anymore and have not been for a couple of months. He is still standing in the middle of it all with walls crashing down all around him. I am on the other side of the walls trying to pull him through. It seems no matter how much I tell him to let it go, or that I don't care anymore about it and it does ot define our marriage, I make him feel worse. He told me that however long it took for me to get through it, he would be there for me. But he also asked that I allow him however long it takes for him to come to terms with what he did, saying it does not effect how he feels about us or how much he loves me, but that he needs time to work through it.

He has had constant reminders - from me, from family, through work, through school, through church, through TV - I have noticed that eveywhere we go, there is something to remind him about choices, infidelity, morals, ethics and consequences. Maybe it is Gods way, intervention. Maybe it is karma. Maybe it is all planned so that he will become a better man. 

I am the BS, and I survived my WHs affair. He is drowning and I can't help. I don't want him to suffer any more for his choices. I want him to move forward - never forget, but move forward. I want to see him laugh again.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Closure for the cheater is BS - it doesn't exist. Affairs only end one way and that's badly. It's part of the price you pay for cheating. I convinced my wife that I needed closure to and she let me try - you can't get it - it's just not there. Tell him to slam the door, throw away the key and focus on you. And tell him that if contacts the OW to tell her anything - anything at all that it's a deal breaker. If you want to reveal it to her BF that's your call - not his. If he has the only antidote to cure a deadly disease she has he can't contact her - period the end.
> 
> If he needs a counselor or a doctor help him find one but in my experience the quickest way to recover from such a massive screw up as having an affair is to bust your ass to make it as right as you can - worked for me for the most part.


Looking for the sun:

I agree with Sigma. 

No contact with OW, period. This sounds like a fishing expedition to reignite, particularly since he wants to do it after a fight. 

Also I am worried about you. You seem to have the caregiver personality. Please google it. 

It is not good that YOU are worried about his depression and need for CLOSURE.

It should be the cheater that is worried about the BS, and it's too bad you triggered. It's natural and normal and he needs to adjust to the fact that HE INSTALLED YOUR TRIGGER BUTTONS. 

Now he needs to help you when you trigger as is expected. 

It seems your cheating husband is still being selfish and thinking about himself and also wondering if the grass would have been greener with the phony OW who stroked his ego to get what she wanted. 

OWs are manipulative that way. They know if you stroke a man's ego, it's more productive than stroking his member. He will respond and lap up the manipulation like a hungry puppy. 

That type of ego stroker is treachorous though, and their admiration is easily faded. Too bad you hubby wasn't with her long enough to see that side of her.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Zanna said:


> I would be very concerned that he still wants to contact her. She is NOT a part of your R. He needs to worry less about her and more about you.


I agree again. 

This Cheater sounds like this OW is too much on his mind. 

It seems as if since he wanted to contact her after a fight with the BS that he is still mooning over the grass may be greener mindset.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> He told me to never say her name in front of him again. Not that I could not feel anything, and told me I had every right to, but please don't ever say her name again. I let it slip the other night and he almost exploded. He hates her. I don't have a problem with that.


The fact that he is demanding you not use her name is not good. 

You can't repress her. She is indelibly in your mind and you will trigger, think of her and need to vent. 

As for hating her. 

Hate and lover in an opposite sex relationship are intricately intertwined. He should feel INDIFFERENT TOWARD HER. 

YOU CAN HATE HER, but not him. Again, he should feel indifferent to her, as if she is gum on his shoe. 

He needs IC pronto. To face himself. 

Sigma is giving you good advice. Please listen to it.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Think LFTS has made up her mind here. She asked the question but then vehemitly defended his actions so......


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Think LFTS has made up her mind here. She asked the question but then vehememitly defended his actions so......


Good point, Can't Trust him:

She is still too concerned about HIS recovery and feelings. 

I hope she is not in denial about the fact that her own pain has not yet healed.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> The fact that he is demanding you not use her name is not good.
> 
> You can't repress her. She is indelibly in your mind and you will trigger, think of her and need to vent.
> 
> ...


There is a very fine line between love and hate. I agree with sara- He should be indifferent to her. Apathy is the best thing. My H has apathy toward his AP. He wouldnt set her on fire nor would he put her out. That is where a WS needs to be to move forward IMO.
Hating her requires emotion.....not good.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

I may be offtrack but let me posit this:

Your husband is unhappy and triggering about what he did because he doesn't really have what he wants - that is, the other woman. He thinks that she's happy without him in her life. How could she be when they were soul-mates?

He should be doing back flips and kissing the ground that you walk on for giving him another chance but he appears to be very unhappy with his current situation. Him wanting to contact the OW (as others have pointed out) is very troubling.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> There is a very fine line between love and hate. I agree with sara- He should be indifferent to her. Apathy is the best thing. My H has apathy toward his AP. He wouldnt set her on fire nor would he put her out. That is where a WS needs to be to move forward IMO.
> Hating her requires emotion.....not good.


Nothing says F YOU like indifference.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I may be offtrack but let me posit this:
> 
> Your husband is unhappy and triggering about what he did because he doesn't really have what he wants - that is, the other woman. He thinks that she's happy without him in her life. How could she be when they were soul-mates?
> 
> He should be doing back flips and kissing the ground that you walk on for giving him another chance but he appears to be very unhappy with his current situation. Him wanting to contact the OW (as others have pointed out) is very troubling.


 I wondered about that, as well as the possibility that he is trying to blame his decision to go outside the marriage on the OW. Not taking responsibility of his actions by pushing it off as "her fault".


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Can't Trust - you are right. I have made up my mind. Sometimes posting on here makes things clearer as I rehash them. Sara8 - while I appreciate your advice (and you have given me a lot of it since January), I 100% disagree with you now. Why can't a person hate another person that they partnered with to screw up a good thing - a family, a life. He sees her for who she is, and she did some very nasty things to me and my family after the fact - again - why couldn't he hate her for trying to hurt me nd our families. As for contacting her - he has not and did not want to for himself, but to finish it the way I pictured it and based of things I said te other night. You only know points of the fight. I own this one.

Have either of you ever seen a truly remorseful husband...truly? Were you willing to fight for something that seemed as if there was no hope? I have. I saw him when he was not remorsful. I felt it. I was tortured by it. Many would have walked away, but I didn't. I survived it. I have accepted it. He owns it, but hates himself because he did it. Yes - it is easy to say that our stories are different, but some of them really are, and some people are more willing to fight for something they belive in than others. I am a fighter. I am a surviver. I am a caregiver, and I would not change a thing about me. 

Marriage is about giving 100%. If one person struggles, you pick them up. He needs help, no doubt, and I will do my part. I love this man nd I won't let his bad choices destroy him. Hindsight, I am sure if he saw this coming he would not have made the choice to cheat - does a cheater know consequences before they happen? They should, but we all know better. Yes, I am defending my cheating husband. Because that is in our past. Now he is just my husband. Some people do deserve a second chance. Maybe you have just not found yours. That may seem harsh, but sme stories can have a happy ending. You just have to believe and be willing to work for it. If I was not willing to do that, I would have filed for divorce last December.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Can't Trust - you are right. I have made up my mind. Sometimes posting on here makes things clearer as I rehash them. Sara8 - while I appreciate your advice (and you have given me a lot of it since January), I 100% disagree with you now. Why can't a person hate another person that they partnered with to screw up a good thing - a family, a life. He sees her for who she is, and she did some very nasty things to me and my family after the fact - again - why couldn't he hate her for trying to hurt me nd our families. As for contacting her - he has not and did not want to for himself, but to finish it the way I pictured it and based of things I said te other night. You only know points of the fight. I own this one.
> 
> Have either of you ever seen a truly remorseful husband...truly? Were you willing to fight for something that seemed as if there was no hope? I have. I saw him when he was not remorsful. I felt it. I was tortured by it. Many would have walked away, but I didn't. I survived it. I have accepted it. He owns it, but hates himself because he did it. Yes - it is easy to say that our stories are different, but some of them really are, and some people are more willing to fight for something they belive in than others. I am a fighter. I am a surviver. I am a caregiver, and I would not change a thing about me.
> 
> Marriage is about giving 100%. If one person struggles, you pick them up. He needs help, no doubt, and I will do my part. I love this man nd I won't let his bad choices destroy him. Hindsight, I am sure if he saw this coming he would not have made the choice to cheat - does a cheater know consequences before they happen? They should, but we all know better. Yes, I am defending my cheating husband. Because that is in our past. Now he is just my husband. Some people do deserve a second chance. Maybe you have just not found yours. That may seem harsh, but sme stories can have a happy ending. You just have to believe and be willing to work for it. If I was not willing to do that, I would have filed for divorce last December.


So, tell me again why you started this thread?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Can't Trust - you are right. I have made up my mind. Sometimes posting on here makes things clearer as I rehash them. Sara8 - while I appreciate your advice (and you have given me a lot of it since January), I 100% disagree with you now. Why can't a person hate another person that they partnered with to screw up a good thing - a family, a life. He sees her for who she is, and she did some very nasty things to me and my family after the fact - again - why couldn't he hate her for trying to hurt me nd our families. As for contacting her - he has not and did not want to for himself, but to finish it the way I pictured it and based of things I said te other night. You only know points of the fight. I own this one.
> 
> Have either of you ever seen a truly remorseful husband...truly? Were you willing to fight for something that seemed as if there was no hope? I have. I saw him when he was not remorsful. I felt it. I was tortured by it. Many would have walked away, but I didn't. I survived it. I have accepted it. He owns it, but hates himself because he did it. Yes - it is easy to say that our stories are different, but some of them really are, and some people are more willing to fight for something they belive in than others. I am a fighter. I am a surviver. I am a caregiver, and I would not change a thing about me.
> 
> Marriage is about giving 100%. If one person struggles, you pick them up. He needs help, no doubt, and I will do my part. I love this man nd I won't let his bad choices destroy him. Hindsight, I am sure if he saw this coming he would not have made the choice to cheat - does a cheater know consequences before they happen? They should, but we all know better. Yes, I am defending my cheating husband. Because that is in our past. Now he is just my husband. Some people do deserve a second chance. Maybe you have just not found yours. That may seem harsh, but sme stories can have a happy ending. You just have to believe and be willing to work for it. If I was not willing to do that, I would have filed for divorce last December.


LFTS - our stories are pretty similar - except I'm the cheating husband. It's great that you are where you are and that you believe the marriage is worth fighting for and are willing to do so. 

You're support and forgiveness of him is wonderful and incredible. As someone who has been the beneficiary of the same from my wife I commend you - and him for the efforts you are both putting into building a new and better marriage. 

Having said all of that - from the remorseful cheater's side of the coin I have two observations. First. Hate is an emotion, one as powerful as love or lust. If he truly hates her he is still emotionally invested in her. The best thing she can become is someone he doesn't think about and when she does cross his mind he ushers her out as fast as possible because she is a bad memory. Hatred occupies too much and consumes too much energy - it's more than she is worth. He can't truly let go and move forward until he let's that hatred go. Make sense?

Second. I understand his struggling and suffering. The same is what led me here looking for help. You can't fix it for him and you must never make your own recovery subordinate to his. He created this mess and his obligation is to fix you first - he comes second. Sounds like you understand that, just remember it. You have given him a second chance, it's an opportunity and a gift that he must capitalize on and not squander. Part of that is to recognize that he must pick himself up by the boot straps and force himself through this so he can be there for you and move forward together with you in the new marriage. He doesn't have the luxury of indulging his suffering, he must push himself to get over it and do his best not to burden you with his anguish. I know you want to be there for him and help him but he dug this hole all by himself and he must fill it the same way. 

Forgive him, love him, build a new life together with him - but don't ever give him a pass on what he did or what he must do. 

Seven months is in reality still early - you both are and should be still struggling. Keep leaning on and looking to each other and it will slowly get better. You can come out the other side with a better marriage - my wife and I have. 

Good Luck.
Sig.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

((((CTU walking away))))

See you in 6 mos LFTS and Im sorry that wicked woman drug your perfect husband kicking and screaming into an affair- truly.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Can't Trust - you are right. I have made up my mind. Sometimes posting on here makes things clearer as I rehash them. Sara8 - while I appreciate your advice (and you have given me a lot of it since January), I 100% disagree with you now. Why can't a person hate another person that they partnered with to screw up a good thing - a family, a life. He sees her for who she is, and she did some very nasty things to me and my family after the fact - again - why couldn't he hate her for trying to hurt me nd our families. As for contacting her - he has not and did not want to for himself, but to finish it the way I pictured it and based of things I said te other night. You only know points of the fight. I own this one.
> 
> Have either of you ever seen a truly remorseful husband...truly? Were you willing to fight for something that seemed as if there was no hope? I have. I saw him when he was not remorsful. I felt it. I was tortured by it. Many would have walked away, but I didn't. I survived it. I have accepted it. He owns it, but hates himself because he did it. Yes - it is easy to say that our stories are different, but some of them really are, and some people are more willing to fight for something they belive in than others. I am a fighter. I am a surviver. I am a caregiver, and I would not change a thing about me.
> 
> Marriage is about giving 100%. If one person struggles, you pick them up. He needs help, no doubt, and I will do my part. I love this man nd I won't let his bad choices destroy him. Hindsight, I am sure if he saw this coming he would not have made the choice to cheat - does a cheater know consequences before they happen? They should, but we all know better. Yes, I am defending my cheating husband. Because that is in our past. Now he is just my husband. Some people do deserve a second chance. Maybe you have just not found yours. That may seem harsh, but sme stories can have a happy ending. You just have to believe and be willing to work for it. If I was not willing to do that, I would have filed for divorce last December.


A "happy ending" usually doesn't involve reconnecting with the OW for any reason whatsoever. She is supposed to be "history" and all emotions involving her should have passed long ago into indifference. Everything involving you and your H should be between the both of you and you two alone. It's that "third person" and her involvement that got you into such an emotional rollercoaster. And you want to allow your H to go back in time and face those demons again? Because you love him? Would it not be a more kinder, loving thing to do to discourage him from doing this?

And others here are correct in pointing out that love and hate are two sides of the same coin. Indifference is a whole separate "feeling" which means that it is truly over. No emotion. Indifference.

So long as you give your H permission to see this OW again, for whatever reason, it will open the door to still more pain for the both of you. It probably won't make a bit of difference to her. Is that what you want? 

I hope things work out for you and that you reconsider the implications that others have kindly pointed out to you. We all sincerely care about your dilemma and are offering advise to you from experience and caring people who can see what you might not be able to see from the front lines.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> *So, tell me again why you started this thread*?


Because I triggered. Because I needed to talk it out and the events that followed. Because that is how TAMS and the good people here have helped me. Seeing 2 sides, getting support and criticism...I use all of that, and it makes things clearer. Even when I get beat up about wanting to help the person who betrayed me, I appreciate all of that. I am not bitter. It is all based on personal experiences.

Unfortunately, I have read too often advice telling people to give up and file for divorce. Sometimes I agree. Sometimes people are still hurting from their own experience, so they see no way that an in infidelity can end in a successful marriage. You never know until you try.

What convinced me to keep trying - I tried to see the big picture. I saw my husband struggling, I hated him for what he put me through. Why did I stay after 4 DDs? Because he bought a phone and ended up throwing it away each time right before he told me he was talking to her again. If he planned to keep the affair going, why not keep one phone? Why tell me he started talking to her again? He was not strong enough. He could not make the choice. I hated him for that. After DD4, everything changed. I saw changes, I saw remorse, and I finally felt that I was looking at him again and not some soulless person. This time WAS different....and since that time, we have been rebuildng, with bumps along the way, but no contact with the OW. It finally clicked for him, and now he is in recovery for his actions. 

I am sure that I will have triggers for awhile, but what happened Monday night - it clicked for me. I am one of the lucky ones who wanted to save her marriage and did. 

He dishonored himself. He sold 20 years of military awards, pictures, everythig he had for $100 at a yard sale. It broke my heart. I did not ask him to do that. The Army was everything to him. It is in his blood, but not anymore. He has apologized to my parents for what he did to me and them. This affair destroyed him and what he thought he used to be. He has a good heart even though he screwed up in the worst possible way. I belive he is now a good man, but is in a lot of pain. He does not belive he can ever be a good man for what he did but feels that he can still live a productive life and help people. The movie Seven Pounds with Will smith popped in my head this morning. 

So again - I started this thread for clarity...to get it out and hear both sides- good and bad.

Unfortunatly, too many people on here who have been betrayed are unable to look at both sides or think that there can ever be a good ending or a remorseful cheating spouse. It does happen. And I have seen other cheating spouses on here who are remorseful. It can happen.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> ((((CTU walking away))))
> 
> See you in 6 mos LFTS and Im sorry that wicked woman drug your perfect husband kicking and screaming into an affair- truly.


I am sorry you are bitter. I never said he was perfect - the furthest thing from it. It is his fault 100%. He knows it, I know it, but she also did some horrible things directly after the fact - that is the kicker. I don't think you are really reading my posts. I am not an idiot and I am not blind, but I am strong and willing to fight for my family. If I did not think he was a good man or had the ability to be, I would have left some time ago. I don't need his financial support nor do I fear that I could not find someone new. I am not insecure with myself and have posted many times that I never doubted myself. You have given me lot of advice on here too since Jan. I will have to read your story again. As long as I keep posting on here, I hope you throw your thoughts in.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I may be offtrack but let me posit this:
> 
> Your husband is unhappy and triggering about what he did because he doesn't really have what he wants - that is, the other woman. He thinks that she's happy without him in her life. How could she be when they were soul-mates?
> 
> He should be doing back flips and kissing the ground that you walk on for giving him another chance but he appears to be very unhappy with his current situation. Him wanting to contact the OW (as others have pointed out) is very troubling.


Not quite sure what you were reading there...not my story.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

DawnD said:


> I wondered about that, as well as the possibility that he is trying to blame his decision to go outside the marriage on the OW. Not taking responsibility of his actions by pushing it off as "her fault".


Didn't say that either. He has owned it. He doesn't blame anyone but himself for it. Wow, I really appreciate you all on this thread, but seems like my thread is being re-written for me. I am not angry, but makes me wonder without reading everyones story here, just who has tried and been successful at R? Of if they ever had a truly remorseful spouse? Or if they felt that their marriage and family were truly worth fighting for? Do any of you think that a cheating spouse can change from their affair for the better and become a loving and dedicatedd partner? I think that is only fair to ask. Again, I am truly not bitter, but some of your respinses, I sense some hostility. I know I did not do anything to you, so I am guessing that you may be still hurting from your own experiences. If so, I am sorry. I know what it feels like. I just chose not to do that anymore. It's over.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Nothing says F YOU like indifference.


I agree - and I am flippingher the bird now


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Didn't say that either. He has owned it. He doesn't blame anyone but himself for it. Wow, I really appreciate you all on this thread, but seems like my thread is being re-written for me. I am not angry, but makes me wonder without reading everyones story here, just who has tried and been successful at R? Of if they ever had a truly remorseful spouse? Or if they felt that their marriage and family were truly worth fighting for? Do any of you think that a cheating spouse can change from their affair for the better and become a loving and dedicatedd partner? I think that is only fair to ask. Again, I am truly not bitter, but some of your respinses, I sense some hostility. I know I did not do anything to you, so I am guessing that you may be still hurting from your own experiences. If so, I am sorry. I know what it feels like. I just chose not to do that anymore. It's over.


Looking for the Sun:

You sound a bit too forgiving, that is what people are addressing. 

Resentment in your situation is normal and it's way too early for you to be so concerned about HIS DEPRESSION. 

Please google "caregiver personalities". 

I am truly concerned that you are not angry enough about his mention of wanting to contact her for ANY reason.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Didn't say that either. He has owned it. He doesn't blame anyone but himself for it. Wow, I really appreciate you all on this thread, but seems like my thread is being re-written for me. I am not angry, but makes me wonder without reading everyones story here, just who has tried and been successful at R? Of if they ever had a truly remorseful spouse? Or if they felt that their marriage and family were truly worth fighting for? Do any of you think that a cheating spouse can change from their affair for the better and become a loving and dedicatedd partner? I think that is only fair to ask. Again, I am truly not bitter, but some of your respinses, I sense some hostility. I know I did not do anything to you, so I am guessing that you may be still hurting from your own experiences. If so, I am sorry. I know what it feels like. I just chose not to do that anymore. It's over.


 I didn't say that you said it. I said I wondered about it. Hostile? Not at all. My H and I are 3 years past Dday. Yep, he was a remorseful person, and he has changed. But I also don't believe in coddling or downplay. I am not here to soothe his emotional turmoil from HIS choices. He made the mess, he is the one that has to clean it up. 

I am not sure why you think people who are giving opinions have some grudge or unsettled issue? At 7 months in, your emotions are not healed from it all. You might want to consider that you are attempting to move past all of this too quickly, without giving yourself the time you need to heal.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> *LFTS - our stories are pretty similar - except I'm the cheating husband. It's great that you are where you are and that you believe the marriage is worth fighting for and are willing to do so. * I know your story well - you have given me some of the best advice on here because you can see his side and you have felt remorse...and your wife did not give up on you. She saw in you, something more than what you were. She saw what you could become. I like your wife
> 
> *You're support and forgiveness of him is wonderful and incredible. As someone who has been the beneficiary of the same from my wife I commend you - and him for the efforts you are both putting into building a new and better marriage.* Isn't the support crucial in rebuilding a marriage? I don't think many others on here realize or belive that. I think many believe that we should keep beating up the cheating spouse. There is a time for that, but you can't keep it going forever if you truly want to save your marriage for the right reasons.
> 
> ...


 Thank you


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Didn't say that either. He has owned it. He doesn't blame anyone but himself for it. Wow, I really appreciate you all on this thread, but seems like my thread is being re-written for me. I am not angry, but makes me wonder without reading everyones story here, just who has tried and been successful at R? Of if they ever had a truly remorseful spouse? Or if they felt that their marriage and family were truly worth fighting for? Do any of you think that a cheating spouse can change from their affair for the better and become a loving and dedicatedd partner? I think that is only fair to ask. Again, I am truly not bitter, but some of your respinses, I sense some hostility. I know I did not do anything to you, so I am guessing that you may be still hurting from your own experiences. If so, I am sorry. I know what it feels like. I just chose not to do that anymore. It's over.


You say you are not hurt or angry and it's over but you started this thread because you triggered. Then felt guilty about it because your supposedly remorseful husband got upset. That's what people are trying to point out to you. They are not any more bitter than you are. You're not more evolved than any other BS on this thread. People are trying to help you. This is also why they say the BS is in their own fog sometimes.

I'm over a year into R. I still trigger. Does that make me bitter? No, it makes me normal.

And yes, I believe marriage and family are worth fighting for but not at the expense of my own self-worth, self-respect or sanity. And yes, I do believe that cheater's can change and regret their actions but that does not happen over night. And you do have to be very aware that someone who was selfish and emotionally immature enough to make the poor decisions that led to an affair is not going to simply change in 7 months. Also, many cheaters have character issues and disturbances and those issues are simply not going to go away without IC or MC. People are telling you to watch for the red flags, to be aware. This is to protect you, to help you, NOT because they're bitter but because they don't want you to get hurt or damaged any further.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Zanna said:


> You say you are not hurt or angry and it's over but you started this thread because you triggered. Then felt guilty about it because your supposedly remorseful husband got upset. That's what people are trying to point out to you. They are not any more bitter than you are. You're not more evolved than any other BS on this thread. People are trying to help you. This is also why they say the BS is in their own fog sometimes.
> 
> I'm over a year into R. I still trigger. Does that make me bitter? No, it makes me normal.
> 
> And yes, I believe marriage and family are worth fighting for but not at the expense of my own self-worth, self-respect or sanity. And yes, I do believe that cheater's can change and regret their actions but that does not happen over night. And you do have to be very aware that someone who was selfish and emotionally immature enough to make the poor decisions that led to an affair is not going to simply change in 7 months. Also, many cheaters have character issues and disturbances and those issues are simply not going to go away without IC or MC. People are telling you to watch for the red flags, to be aware. This is to protect you, to help you, NOT because they're bitter but because they don't want you to get hurt or damaged any further.


All good points. 

Did you come here to get helpful advice from others who have been through this or do you want to be validated in youR almost above human (likely damaging to yourself) behaviors in caring more about your cheating spouse's depression than you own denied depression.

If you are not depressed about his affair only 7 months out, you are in denial or you are not human. 

I hope you did not come here to crow about how good things are going because you have repressed your anger and bitterness about his affair and desire to contact the OW for ANY REASON.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Looking for the Sun:
> 
> *You sound a bit too forgiving, that is what people are addressing.
> 
> ...




I understand why he said that - because in so many words I told him that I wanted him to tell her off...that he gave her more courtesy than he gave me. He didn't, becase he does not want her back in our ives and he did not want to break NC. He was honest and upfront with me. That is what I want. He was not wanting to chat with her or see how she was doing. He wanted revenge for me, but that is not what I wanted. He didn't want it for himself. He didn't do it even when he thought I wanted him to.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

*


Zanna said:



You say you are not hurt or angry and it's over but you started this thread because you triggered. Then felt guilty about it because your supposedly remorseful husband got upset. That's what people are trying to point out to you. They are not any more bitter than you are. You're not more evolved than any other BS on this thread. People are trying to help you. This is also why they say the BS is in their own fog sometimes.

Click to expand...

*


Zanna said:


> I triggered - yes - and I don't know that a BS can ever not trigger ever again even after years. But a trigger does not mean that you have not truly forgiven or decided to move on and not dwell on the past. I didn't feel guilt about my trigger. I felt remorse for the things I said. I was out of line (my own words and conclusion and sober thoughts). My husband is remoresful, no supposedly, no doubt. I am not bitter. I had my time with that. It was ugly. Bitterness is just as bad as hate. I let it go. I did not imply that I was more evolved. I simply pointed out that I have accepted it - maybe faster than others. Because it takes one person years to get over, does not mean it takes everyone the same. We are all different. I realize people are trying to help - that is why I posted. That is why I take the good and the bad, the harsh words and the comforting ones. I consider them all. I was in a fog the first 3 DDs. I recognized that and I freely admit it. I have a thread about the BS coming out of the fog.
> 
> *I'm over a year into R. I still trigger. Does that make me bitter? No, it makes me normal.* Then you know it happens. I am not bitter either. It just means that I have a scar.
> 
> ...




I am worthy. I never doubted that. I respect myself and I am sane. I am very level headed and have always tried to look at the big picture before making snap decisions. I try to play it smart. I respect myself for deciding to fight for my family. I respect myself for never contactiing the OW and stooping to her level. I respect myself for not exposing my husband to his children, even when I was hurting so badly I wanted them to hate him to. I could have been a real mess, but somehow I kept it together - not always clearly, but I never did anything stupid.

"A cheater does not change overnight" - I disagree. They either stop cheating or they don't.

They are either remorseful and commit to be a different person or they don't. That happens at some point. What drives them to that is different for every person. How soon it happens is dfferent for everyone. DD1 - Dec 7, 2011...DD4, Mar 6, 2012. That was the day he decided to change because he regretted his actions. Cheaters change only when they regret and are remorseful. 

I have zero doubt about his committment to me and our family. He is depressed. He did bad things. That does not mean he will repeat. He needs help, I agree. Just because someone hurts you does not mean you step away and leave them to fend for themsleves. What kind of wife would I be? Would I want him to do that to me? 

Bottom line, you either truly forgive or you don't. 

And why am I still posting to all of these responses to my post if I don't care? I do! If my story and circumstances can turn a light on for someone else, that is great - that is the same reason you are all here. Again, I appreciate all of you and feel for you. Been there, done that.

Trying to type it out - I wish I could explain better. It does not have to take years to get over, and it is ok to know that triggers will happen from time to time. It doesn't mean that your marriage can't be great! It does not mean that you are in a funk or have not moved on. It means that you have a scar. That's OK, but don't let it define you or rule your life. There is too much to enjoy!


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> All good points.
> 
> *Did you come here to get helpful advice from others who have been through this or do you want to be validated in youR almost above human (likely damaging to yourself) behaviors in caring more about your cheating spouse's depression than you own denied depression. *
> Wow...not sure what to say there. I don't think I am better than anyone else on here. Ijust have my own story and recovery. I was hoping I might be able to help others as you all have intentions of doing. I am sorry if it insults you that I do not agree with you or choose to be depressed or bitter or angry any longer. I made the choice to rise above it. It is your choice if you choose to hold on to that negativity. It is your choice if you choose to let it go. Does that make me not human? Hardly, that makes me experienced and educated about what works for me and what doesn't.
> ...


 Again....wow...those are bitter words. I am sorry.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> [/B]
> 
> I understand why he said that - because in so many words I told him that I wanted him to tell her off...that he gave her more courtesy than he gave me. He didn't, becase he does not want her back in our ives and he did not want to break NC. He was honest and upfront with me. That is what I want. He was not wanting to chat with her or see how she was doing. He wanted revenge for me, but that is not what I wanted. He didn't want it for himself. He didn't do it even when he thought I wanted him to.


The panic attacks and such are extreme caregiver behaviors. 

You can still have a caregiver personality without having panic attacks or anything extreme. 

The fact that you are only 7 mos. out concerned about his depression and getting closure says you are not processing you own trauma properly. 

His depression is directly related to his cheating, no secret there. He should be depressed, and he should embrace it as teachable moment for himself. 

If he wanted revenge for you, he could have told you to contact her yourself and tell her off, or to contact her SO and tell him details he might not know. 

His thought to contact her for any reason is odd, IMO. Even as he dismissed it. 

All we are saying is stay alert. 

He did give more consideration to her feelings than yours in the beginning. And, that is something you should be angry about.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

survivorwife said:


> *A "happy ending" usually doesn't involve reconnecting with the OW for any reason whatsoever. She is supposed to be "history" and all emotions involving her should have passed long ago into indifference. Everything involving you and your H should be between the both of you and you two alone. It's that "third person" and her involvement that got you into such an emotional rollercoaster. And you want to allow your H to go back in time and face those demons again? Because you love him? Would it not be a more kinder, loving thing to do to discourage him from doing this?*
> 
> Let me clarify - I am not allowing my husband to contat her. I was drunk and made som comments and he thought he had to do it over for me - for a split second. But he didn't, because he didn't want her in our lives and he didn't want to break NC - and he didn't. And he told me. Full disclosure.
> 
> ...


 Thank you. I have it all stored in my memory bank. I appreciate each story and exprience and words of advice. Please know that I am part of the BS's club too. I also have experience, and tht is what I am sharing as well. I mean no disrespect. My eyes are open, but so is my heart. You can't hold on to anger forever. If you do, it won't work. I choose my marriage over divorce, and so I moved on.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I am worthy. I never doubted that. I respect myself and I am sane.


Yes, you are, so please stop beating yourself for berating your cheater. 

Too bad that he is depressed. He should be depressed, he almost lost a wonderful loving person like yourself. 

He should be concerned about you, not you about him. 

His depression over cheating is a good thing, IMO. 

You need to allow him to feel it deeply, so that he remembers it and never strays again.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> [/B] Again....wow...those are bitter words. I am sorry.


Actually, I am way past bitter or angry. 

I am at the indifference and acceptance stage. 

Again, my concern for you is that you sound a tad unrealistically pollyannaish about being able to recover in 7 mos. 

I don't think most people could. It's somewhat unusual. 

I AM glad if that is true, but I am saying that most likely you are in profound denial about the impact of this betrayal on you. 

Anger, resentment, bitterness, indifference are all far healthier than denial.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> The panic attacks and such are extreme caregiver behaviors.
> 
> *You can still have a caregiver personality without having panic attacks or anything extreme. * Or you can just care about tose you love.
> 
> ...


 Absolutely. Don't all WS's do that? I was angry, hurt and disgusted. If I am in R , I should not still be angry and I am not. That was then, this is now. He is not in an affair and he is not the same person.

We choose how long we want to be angry for. We choose how long we want to hurt for. " No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" - Eleanore Roosevelt.

That has always been one of my favorite quotes - and a few times throughout this ordeal it has carried me. It is true. I have tried to instill it in my oldest daughter. If you belive it, it does wonders.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Actually, I am way past bitter or angry.
> 
> I am at the indifference and acceptance stage.
> 
> ...


What is there to be in denial about? My husband had an affair. I went through 4 DDs. It took him that long to wake up. Now we have been in recovery for 7 months. I have reflected on everything during that time. I know everthing that happened. I asked for details and I got it. I know what it is and I know what it was and I know what it isn't now. I am not in denial about anything. And anger and resentment and bitterness, they are part of the natural process and I felt them all. I will still trigger . I am not in denial about that either, but acceptance, forgiveness. Those are healthier than anything.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I am not in denial about that either, but acceptance, forgiveness. Those are healthier than anything.


Yes. If it is a real forgiveness and not one bestowed to help him recover because if that is your reason you are caregiving him, not yourself. 

You are in denial about being traumatized. 

An affair is a betrayal and all betrayals are traumatizing. 

I think recognizing your own trauma may be helpful.

Also, cheating hubby needs to step up to the plate, IMO, and take on the caregiver role for a bit, now. Fair is fair.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

*


Sara8 said:



Yes. It it is a real forgiveness and not one bestowed to help him recover because if that is your reason you are caregiving him, not yourself. 

I forgave him 4 months ago for me. Not for him. I love him and I care for him. I love and care for my children. That does not make me a "caregiver" by the definition you seem to want to force on my situation.

You are in denial about being traumatized.  Not true. I was devestatd, but I have also done a lot of reading, reflection, counseling and prayer. I chose to let it go. Some people can do that. Maybe you chose not to. That does not mean anything. That means that I just chose differently.

An affair is a betrayal and all betrayals are traumatizing. No doubt they are devestating or traumatizing. That does not mean that a person does not recover. That does not mean that it takes one person jus as long as another to reach a point where they let go an move on. Not everone has PTSD. Not everyone needs to take medication. Every person is different.

I think recognizing your own trauma may be helpful. I did. I still know it. I lived it. But it is no longer a part of me now. Why continue to suffer? Why stay miserable and bitter? I did that. I hated it. 

Also, cheating hubby needs to step up to the plate, IMO, and take on the caregiver role for a bit, now. Fair is fair.

Click to expand...

* He has been for the last 7 months or I would not be where I am. I don't need a caregiver. And "fair is fair" - that is still anger, Sarah from your own personal experience. You want me to be angry with my husband. I am sorry, and I am sure we could go on this for the next 24 hours. I have to stop here and say that we agree to disagree. 

I am not you, and you are not me. Your husband is not my husbnd and mine is not yours. My recovery is obviously different than yours. I am not saying I am better than anyone as you have seemed to think. I'm just telling my story. Why are any of us here? Did I feel attacked - I think intentions were good, but I think built up anger, resentment and bitterness came across more than a few times. Your opinions are totally ok. I appreciate the positive criticism.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> [/B] He has been for the last 7 months or I would not be where I am. I don't need a caregiver. And "fair is fair" - that is still anger, Sarah from your own personal experience. You want me to be angry with my husband. I am sorry, and I am sure we could go on this for the next 24 hours. I have to stop here and say that we agree to disagree.
> 
> I am not you, and you are not me. Your husband is not my husbnd and mine is not yours. My recovery is obviously different than yours. I am not saying I am better than anyone as you have seemed to think. I'm just telling my story. Why are any of us here? Did I feel attacked - I think intentions were good, but I think built up anger, resentment and bitterness came across more than a few times. Your opinions are totally ok. I appreciate the positive criticism.


The only way to know if you truly have situational PTSD is to talk to a psychiatrist skilled in its diagnosis. They are few and far between when it comes to infidelites. 

Diagnosing long term permanent PTSD is easy. All you need do is have an MRI done of your hippocampus.

A before and after comparison is best. 

Still, if it's smaller than average that indicates it may have shriveled due to the severe trauma of infidelity. 

Have you been to a shrink specializing in PTSD?

Have you had an MRI?

In any case. I am glad you are happy, really in the end we all create our own realities. 

So if you say you are happy, than I can not dispute that. 

Don't worry, be happy, i say. :smthumbup:

It probably would be far easier on me, if I could do that, but I can't. I have always been way too practical.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong OP but didn't your H only offer to break NC because that is what he thought YOU wanted and not in fact because he's just using it as an excuse to contact her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

And just for the record OP I had 1 angry outburst at my WH and that was months ago. I just do not feel any anger about his A at all. So your not the only one!
H and I are 6 months into R. We too are doing well. Really well.
Why do some people find it so hard to believe?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> And just for the record OP I had 1 angry outburst at my WH and that was months ago. I just do not feel any anger about his A at all. So your not the only one!
> H and I are 6 months into R. We too are doing well. Really well.
> Why do some people find it so hard to believe?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't speak for anyone else but to answer your question from my perspective. 

I find it difficult to believe because there appear to be so many people who think everything is just peachy and then come back two years later saying I found out about another affair. 

Surprise, surprise. 

Or, there are people on TAM whose spouses cheated 20 years ago, but they are here trying to convince everyone they moved past it already. 

There is a study about referrals. It stated that referrals for doctors, lawyers, accountants, hairdressers, etc, can't be trusted. 

Why?

Because when someone goes out of their way to extol the virtues of someone, really, the study showed, is that what they are truly trying to do, is to convince themselves that they made the right decision. 

Most referrals, the study shows, turn out to be inaccurate, and the person referred to is too often not as great as the referrer claimed. 

In the end we are all the best judges of our own situation, so like I said, if you are happy that is all that really matters. 

Anyway, that's my reason. I hope others chime in.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Anyway, that's my reason. I hope others chime in.


I'm staying in spectator mode, thank you very much.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

*


daisygirl 41 said:



Correct me if I'm wrong OP but didn't your H only offer to break NC because that is what he thought YOU wanted and not in fact because he's just using it as an excuse to contact her?
Posted via Mobile Device

Click to expand...

*Yes - he thought I wanted it but he didn't do it. And he told me.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

*


daisygirl 41 said:



And just for the record OP I had 1 angry outburst at my WH and that was months ago. I just do not feel any anger about his A at all. So your not the only one!
H and I are 6 months into R. We too are doing well. Really well.
Why do some people find it so hard to believe?
Posted via Mobile Device

Click to expand...

*Everyone is different. I am happy for you  Doesn't letting it go make R much easier? Did you just tell yourself one day - I've had enough? Why drag it out is my question. Life is too short.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I can't speak for anyone else but to answer your question from my perspective.
> 
> *I find it difficult to believe because there appear to be so many people who think everything is just peachy and then come back two years later saying I found out about another affair.
> 
> ...




And the pill should prevent pregnancy 99% of the time, but there is that 1 percent that it does not. There ARE always exceptions. Call it a miracle if you will. I belive in miracles.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Everyone is different. I am happy for you  Doesn't letting it go make R much easier? Did you just tell yourself one day - I've had enough? Why drag it out is my question. Life is too short.


Yes letting go does make it easier - but not easy!
Like you - we are doing really well, but we have our moments, and when we do, we deal with.
We have had one false R last year, I know what it looks like, what it feels likes and H knows there will be no other chances. He will be gone.
H has not been left off the hook, he is accountable for his actions and there is total transparency in our marriage now, and he offers it freely and happily!
He made a mistake, bad choice, whatever, but I have forgiven him, because it frees me, now we are both going to make sure our marriage not only survives this but is better than it was before and do you know what? It's not a chore, its not a struggle, because we both want it and we both know how close we came to losing it!

Sorry. Didn't mean to thread jack op
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I'm staying in spectator mode, thank you very much.


Made me chuckle!
Sometimes it's the best way!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

*


Sara8 said:



Actually, I am way past bitter or angry. 

I am at the indifference and acceptance stage. 

Again, my concern for you is that you sound a tad unrealistically pollyannaish about being able to recover in 7 mos. 

I don't think most people could. It's somewhat unusual. 

I AM glad if that is true, but I am saying that most likely you are in profound denial about the impact of this betrayal on you. 

Anger, resentment, bitterness, indifference are all far healthier than denial.

Click to expand...

*In all fairness to those who have moved past their bitter and angry stage in R, weren't you posting in May and June that you hated the OW and that you were in the end stages of R - yet you are now past the bitter and angry stage...if so, why is it so hard to belive that others can do that as well? You seemed to have flipped a coin in a matter of 3 months. I just thought that was important to point out. You are way past it...in 3 months. If so, that is wonderful. I believe it can happen.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I should have put this in my post - the other night (I did cause that one) I said some bad stuff, and he said something bad back - that wasn't even an issue - but I said "So your final words to her were "Take Care", and I get this - the woman you are supposed to love. Yep - tha made it sound like I was questioning his love for me now (I forgot about that). Then the next day I told him that it would have been ideal if his last words to her were FU B**ch, but it is too late for that, so I will settle for knowing that in so many words and stopping contact, he did tell her goodbye – you are out of my life. You are not who or what is important.
> 
> Typing that - In so many words I guess I told him that I was not sure he loved me now and that for me to feel better he needed to tell her off?!?


I seem to remember telling my OW something similar. "Take care."

I did this because I felt bad as I had used her. (The truth, however, as someone who spoke to her later was able to reveal, was somewhat different. She wanted a father for her two kids and decided I'd be a good candidate so had manipulated me.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Yes letting go does make it easier - but not easy!
> Like you - we are doing really well, but we have our moments, and when we do, we deal with.
> We have had one false R last year, I know what it looks like, what it feels likes and H knows there will be no other chances. He will be gone.
> H has not been left off the hook, he is accountable for his actions and there is total transparency in our marriage now, and he offers it freely and happily!
> ...


No - you made a great addition to the thread which totally turned from it's orignal intent - but glad it did - brought up some great points and perspectives. And it is nice to hear that I am not super human and there ARE others out there like me. I can totally relate.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

*


MattMatt said:



I seem to remember telling my OW something similar. "Take care."

I did this because I felt bad as I had used her. (The truth, however, as someone who spoke to her later was able to reveal, was somewhat different. She wanted a father for her two kids and decided I'd be a good candidate so had manipulated me.

Click to expand...

*I can understand that. He is at fault for the affair, but she played her game well too. She wanted a sugar daddy and a family - just wasn't going to be mine...and she was PO'd she didn't get it. He sees that now.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> In all fairness to those who have moved past their bitter and angry stage in R, weren't you posting in May and June that you hated the OW and that you were in the end stages of R - yet you are now past the bitter and angry stage...if so, why is it so hard to belive that others can do that as well? You seemed to have flipped a coin in a matter of 3 months. I just thought that was important to point out. You are way past it...in 3 months. If so, that is wonderful. I believe it can happen.


You initially posed your question as if you were looking for advice, so I responded.

Yet I see you are here to convince everyone everything is peachy keen, unlike someone like cantrust who admits she is not sure and very vigilant. I don't worry about her. She's going to stay alert. 

I am truly glad for you. I didn't realize your mind was made up, again, I thought you were looking for advice not reassurance that you are a wonderful person so nice to forgive a cheating spouse.

There is a thread on what you give up for forgiveness, you might like to read it, it's on the board today.

No I was not in the end stages of R. I was in the end stages of a FALSE R. 

I am going through the stages of grief, and I have not reconciled. 

So, I am not sure what coin you are referring to.

Also, like cant Trust, I was always vigilant. I did not blindly trust. 

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. 

Anyway, as I said be happy. Don't worry. It's always better that way, really.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> [/B] He has been for the last 7 months or I would not be where I am. I don't need a caregiver. And "fair is fair" - that is still anger, Sarah from your own personal experience. You want me to be angry with my husband. I am sorry, and I am sure we could go on this for the next 24 hours. I have to stop here and say that we agree to disagree.
> 
> .


You misinterpret all I have said. 

I don't WANT you to be angry. I am only saying it may be a red flag that you are not. 

It seems a tad too early to be so positive and trustful and forgiving and so angelically concerned about cheating hubby's well being. 

That's all. 

I am good with you being good with it. As I said, initially it appeared you were seeking advice not reassurance. My bad.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Sara with respect your posts tend to be very condescending and sarcastic. I'm not sure if they are meant to be that way.
Just because your R didn't work out it doesn't mean that others won't. 
I'm sorry it didn't work out for you but there can be very successful Rs after an A, and again, it is very different for each couple.
Who says the op or any of us are trusting blindly?
Who says we are not being vigilant?
You've had a bad experience, we know that, but not all Hs are like yours. Some truly are remorseful and ashamed of what they have done and will do what is required for a successful R.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Sara with respect your posts tend to be very condescending and sarcastic. I'm not sure if they are meant to be that way.
> Just because your R didn't work out it doesn't mean that others won't.
> I'm sorry it didn't work out for you but there can be very successful Rs after an A, and again, it is very different for each couple.
> Who says the op or any of us are trusting blindly?
> ...


Like I said. 

I am truly glad you are both happy. 

The OP appeared to be seeking advice. 

I didn't realize she was here to crow about her happy reconciliation. 

If I had, I would not have responded with advice as I am now no longer offering advice, only congratulations on her ability to forgive and move forward. 

I truly hope her husband is sincere and is not seeking to rekindle with OW by looking for excuses to recontact the OW. That is what I saw when I read her words because my STBEH said something very similar told me about it and still contacted her months later. 

As I said, I thought OP was asking for advice. 

I truly hope I am wrong and you are both right. 

Good luck.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

*


Sara8 said:



You initially posed your question as if you were looking for advice, so I responded.

Click to expand...

*


Sara8 said:


> Advice about my husband - not about our realtionship or how I feel about us. I also posted about 3 weeks ago a Thank you to TAM because I was at peace with what happened. And I still am.
> 
> *Yet I see you are here to convince everyone everything is peachy keen, unlike someone like cantrust who admits she is not sure and very vigilant. I don't worry about her. She's going to stay alert. * Things are good between us. Peachy keen is kind of a sarcastic phrase, don't you think? My intent for the thread was not to tell anyone how peachy keen things were, but I did get some responses that I felt needed responding to , and so here you and I still are. Apparently I have not been clear enough in my responses. I am sure. I have not said any different. I do not doubt my husbands committment to me , our family, or doubt his love for me. I never stated otherwise. As for being vigilant, I was for enough time, until I felt that I was either all in or not at all. I was not going to be a prisoner in my marriage, and my marriage is what I want. Please do not worry about me. I am peachy keen.
> 
> ...


 I think you said more than that and I am pretty sure you implied much more too. However, finally I agree. It is always better to be happy


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LFTS - you remind me of my wife. Your approach and thought processes are very similar. I don't mean this to question him, only as a sincere wish, I hope your husband understands what he has and is deserving of it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I think you said more than that and I am pretty sure you implied much more too. However, finally I agree. It is always better to be happy


I am curious. Do you feel some of your responses, filled with assumptions, may be a bit sarcastic. Or might you be in denial about that factor.

Do you think I am looking for drama. Might that comment be sarcastic?

Sorry, as a i said umpteen times, It initially seemed as if you were looking for advice and perspective. 

I see others, not just me apparently thought so too, because their advice echoed mine. 

Oops. Like I said my bad. Carry on and best of luck with your reconciliation.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> LFTS - you remind me of my wife. Your approach and thought processes are very similar. I don't mean this to question him, only as a sincere wish, I hope your husband understands what he has and is deserving of it.


I hope so too - time will tell  Thank you.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Dear LFTS,

You originally asked "how do I help my WH who is undeniably depressed because of his affair, more remorseful than I have ever seen, and who I think needs closure. Besides getting a doctors help, what does he do? Closure - how does he do it, is it a good thing? I am lost."

My advice: (1) keep working on your R and don't be overly concerned that parts of it (like his remorse) are taking more time to fix than you might have thought they would, (2) let him sort out his issues in his own way and time, (3) if you do something counterproductive to your R don't beat yourself up over it since, if your H is as committed to fixing his marriage as he seems, he will get over it but (4) be careful with alcohol since, as we all know, it tends to cloud our judgment and lower our inhibitions to that we say and do things that we later regret.

One other suggestion: when you get advice that seems off the mark or otherwise unhelpful, just ignore it.

I wish you all the best.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

[*QUOTE=Sara8;1097399]I am curious. Do you feel some of your responses, filled with assumptions, may be a bit sarcastic. Or might you be in denial about that factor.* They were totally sarcastic, but only after I felt your advice turned from concern to resentment.

*Do you think I am looking for drama. Might that comment be sarcastic?* Absolutely. It was sarcatsic, and I own it. Who knew that this thread that I thought might have only received a few hits would have turned into this. I think you are looking for answers and support. I think you are still in a lot of pain, and I am sorry that I am probably not helping, but I think you need to open your eyes and take a good look at who you are and what you want. Then you can give solid advice. Don't re-write a person's history...they already had that done by their cheating spouse. 

*Sorry, as a i said umpteen times, It initially seemed as if you were looking for advice and perspective. * I was - but not about me having already forgiven and moved on from the affair. Not about me committing myself 100% to something I want.

*I see others, not just me apparently thought so too, because their advice echoed mine.* And I don't see them posting any more after I explained it umpteen times.

*Oops. Like I said my bad. Carry on and best of luck with your reconciliation.[/QUOTE]* Thank you. I truly do hope that you find peace and happiness and someone who appreciates you. We all deserve to be happy. It sucks that we are here. I get it.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear LFTS,
> 
> You originally asked "how do I help my WH who is undeniably depressed because of his affair, more remorseful than I have ever seen, and who I think needs closure. Besides getting a doctors help, what does he do? Closure - how does he do it, is it a good thing? I am lost."
> 
> ...


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Peace out TAMS...hubby will be home any time now, girls will run up to him and then it is off to soccer practice. Thanks for hanging in there today


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> [*QUOTE=Sara8;1097399] Absolutely. It was sarcatsic, and I own it. Who knew that this thread that I thought might have only received a few hits would have turned into this. I think you are looking for answers and support. I think you are still in a lot of pain, and I am sorry that I am probably not helping, but I think you need to open your eyes and take a good look at who you are and what you want. Then you can give solid advice. Don't re-write a person's history...they already had that done by their cheating spouse.
> 
> *


*

Isn't rewriting my history what you are doing by assuming you know I don't know what I want?

I only wanted to offer my advice, based on my own experience with your husband's comment about contacting OW. 

As I said mine said something similar. 

Sorry that may have upset you.

Of course I am still in pain. Convential wisdom for normal standards is the pain of an infidelity takes 2 to 5 years to subside. 

I wish I could be more like you and just happily transcend the pain.*


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sara8 said:


> I wish I could be more like you and just happily transcend the pain.


 No you don't Sara. You know as well as I do that the pain is a necessary evil. Living through it, surviving, learning, re-evaluating and coming out the other side is what you want. If you don't do it, you might as well close your eyes and pretend you have a purple unicorn and unlimited money supplies LMAO.


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