# Is kinkiness an "orientation"?



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

By that I mean is someone's level of kinkiness a fairly immutable quality similar to sexual orientation. Is it important for couples to see if they are compatible that way before getting into a serious relationship? Is kinkiness closely related to overall level of sexual desire or is it orthogonal? 

There have been a number of threads from people who who wish their partners were more adventuresome (eg kinky), I wonder how common this problem is. It easy for people to understand the frustration / unhappiness of a partner who refuses sex most of the time, but concerns that a partner won't engage in some sort of kinky play may seem less valid.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

IMO, kinkiness is fairly immutable, and orthogonal to libido. I think you may not always know you have a kink or fetish until you've been exposed to it and find it arousing.

For example, neither of us has any interest in any of the usual range of kink, yet we both have very high libido and are very open to exploring within our non-kinky boundaries. We will try and sometimes enjoy the milder forms of something like BDSM, but it is not necessary - it's just some occasional variety, if not too extreme.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

I think both concerns are valid. For a great sex life is as much quality as it is quantity. You can have a lot of terrible sex and it'll leave you about as satisfied as no sex. Now you can really complicate it with asking about the effects an LD vs. HD in a relationship, and the HD happens to be a bit on the kinky side. Where does that leave both partners? 

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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

In the past, I too wondered whether it was an immutable quality but my experience with my current partner has really changed my mind. Although hmm now I'm rethinking this mid-thought, perhaps he was kinky to some extent but I assumed he was vanilla because he shied away from my more extreme kinks.

Either way, he had zero interest in anything anal, bondage and extreme submissiveness in general. His aversion was strongly linked to his cultural experiences and lack of experience. He was convinced he had zero interest and was actually offended the first few times I suggested the anal. That changed very slowly through much cultural debate and porn exposure. The difference today is really drastic compared to before. 

So was he just always inclined to be kinky but never had a chance to explore because of his environment or did he just learn to be more open to kinky sex? Now I'm confused...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Is it important for couples to see if they are compatible that way before getting into a serious relationship? Is kinkiness closely related to overall level of sexual desire or is it orthogonal?


What this question is perhaps missing is an aspect of having an "active & curious desire" in which one enjoys exploring various kinks or if one has a strong "fetish" associated with one particular kink. 

Someone with a strong fetish would be likely to desire a partner that hopefully shares the same fetish. Whereas someone that likes to be active and explore will actually be OK with a partner that sincerely enjoys trying to keep up in the relationship. 

Interestingly someone that is very active and enjoys a kinky variety of acts would likely get frustrated with someone limited to just one kinky fetish. Meanwhile both would be defined by your average person as being very kinky. 

But with regards to your question, I find fascinating that there are some people into the kink of body modification (nothing to do with transgender modification) that will drastically alter their genitalia. I don't think this has anything to do with a fetish, but however creates an altered state of their sexuality that is rather permanent. Much like those huge ear rings people use to stretch out their earlobes, some folks are doing the exact same type of things down "there." Obviously that will be a HUGE turn off for someone not into that type of thing, which kind of makes that behavior into a permanent sexual orientation so to speak!


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

You came to the right person. I had my first date and girlfriend when I was 6 years old. At the age of 11 I had two girlfriends walk me to and from school plus make out with me together. I also arranged make out parties after school and my teacher and parish priest called my mother and the priest came over to our house to counsel me about the evils of sex. He left warning me about excommunication. At the age of 14 I had a 17 year old girlfriend who took me to her senior prom. She loved teaching me about sex and my mom loved her because she helped with the laundry and ironing. Women just seemed to want me. 

I had four loving relationships since the age of 15. All are bisexual including my wife and the live in girlfriend who my wife shared me with. For most of my marriage we lived in a poly triad with my wife's best friend who was single for the first 7 years and then got married to a man who I cuckolded for 25 years, with his knowledge and blessing. We have engaged in various forms of group sex with friends and I have had a few thousand threesomes over the 44 years of my marriage. Before that I had sex with 5 women and attended a few orgies. It was sex, drugs and rock and roll for me. All of our friends were into non monogamous marriages. Even before we married we swapped girlfriends. Obviously I was most comfortable around people like me.

When I was a kid and asked what I wanted to be when I grew I always said a playboy. My parents and relatives thought I was kidding and laughed. Little did they know. When I was 13 I was dared to grab the overly developed breast of my friend while in a swimming pool. I did so and got a hard slap to my face for my trouble. Since that day, that women was in my sexual fantasies and set me down a path of BDSM. I still think of her every day of my wife. Of course the fantasy got more and more extreme throughout the years. The weird part is that I unknowingly married her best friend and she is the woman who became our girlfriend of 30 years. I got to actually do the things I fantasized doing with her for most of my marriage and adult life. 

As to whether or not it is an orientation or not, I think it better described as a fetish. I have lived the last 6 years monogamous with my wife but I am still into fetish sex. Vanilla sex bores me. Perhaps this will sum it up. Shortly after I married, my wife ran into an old friend of hers. While catching up with each other my wife was asked who did she married. She told her friend who then responded with, "You married that pervert?" I did have a reputation in my town and among the neighborhood and school girls, church and mothers who have chased me out of their homes after catching me with their good daughters. I even had sex with two male gay friends just to try it. I did attract all the bad girls and some good girls who wanted to try being bad. I have been professionally diagnosed with a Machiavellian personality which enabled me to get most girls to try fetish sex. I am embarrassed to mention some of the things I did but my life has been better than any porn movie I have even seen and the funny part is that to me it was just my normal life. Only until I got old and reflected back on it did I realize how different it was to what I read others post about online.

I think orientation is more what you are born with like my wife's bisexuality. I was not born a pervert. A series of events led to me enjoying fetish sex. My ex fiancee is now married to a woman. My ex girlfriend became a prostitute and then a stripper who married an old man who was her best lap dance customer. Obviously I attract a certain type of woman but I thought my virgin wife would be different. She was but as she says, she learned all about sex from me and so I molding her in my own image. Still I think it is properly called a fetish since I was not born this way.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

uhtred said:


> By that I mean is someone's level of kinkiness a fairly immutable quality similar to sexual orientation. Is it important for couples to see if they are compatible that way before getting into a serious relationship? Is kinkiness closely related to overall level of sexual desire or is it orthogonal?
> 
> There have been a number of threads from people who who wish their partners were more adventuresome (eg kinky), I wonder how common this problem is. It easy for people to understand the frustration / unhappiness of a partner who refuses sex most of the time, but concerns that a partner won't engage in some sort of kinky play may seem less valid.


I would say that it is crucial to determining kinky compatibility before entering into a serious relationship. Incompatibilities in regards to kink will make both partners very unhappy. That doesn't mean that EVERYTHING needs to be perfectly aligned--I don't think anybody will tick off EVERYTHING. There's one thing in particular that I want--that isn't even kinky!--that he simply will not do, and it is something that I very much enjoy... but he does everything else so very well and takes such good care of me emotionally, I'm willing to give up that one particular thing.

All the kinky people I know are HD, so I think it's safe to say that there's likely some correlation between kinkiness and desire.

I also agree with this statement:



Married but Happy said:


> I think you may not always know you have a kink or fetish until you've been exposed to it and find it arousing.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

If that's important to you, you should have that discussion with her before things get too far.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Speaking from personal experience and the shared experiences of others with the same kink. Kinks don't go away. There was a lot of talk of purging and determining to leave the kink behind but it always came back. My kink has been with me as long as I have been interested in sex. I did at some later point add two others. I don't have to have a partner that participates. But having a partner that accepts has been invaluable. 

There are kinks that scare me so I might not be too adventurous. I also feel it is ethical to shield others from my kink, so I don't openly indulge. kind of a keep it behind closed doors policy. As to being open to others adventures, well having been accepted, I would be kind of rotten not to at least give it a try. (as safely as possible).


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

uhtred said:


> By that I mean is someone's level of kinkiness a fairly immutable quality similar to sexual orientation. Is it important for couples to see if they are compatible that way before getting into a serious relationship? Is kinkiness closely related to overall level of sexual desire or is it orthogonal?
> 
> There have been a number of threads from people who who wish their partners were more adventuresome (eg kinky), I wonder how common this problem is. It easy for people to understand the frustration / unhappiness of a partner who refuses sex most of the time, but concerns that a partner won't engage in some sort of kinky play may seem less valid.


Wow, I think you are looking at it all the wrong way. 

May I suggest a very heavy reading list of Dr. David Schnarch. Once you understand self-soothing (of emotional turmoil & confusion), Self-differentiation (being true to your inner self) and the compromise required in a marriage where each partner grows at a different pace, then you might have an alternate perspective.

A married couple is not "static." One of the most important aspects of marriage is how two people change over time and how they work together and dealing with those changes.

I view the concept of finding a "kind, loving, kinky" partner that you marry and they will never change kind of searching for the wrong thing. Sort of like looking for a unicorn.

I think that you are better off looking for someone who is really committed to making a marriage work, who is loving, playful and exploratory. Someone who is a good person that you share long term values and dreams with.

Good luck.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I find and actually have found that my kinkiness has only been more of an awareness to me as i get older, I am not suggesting that it wasn't there in my youth, but i am suggesting that there was a lot of suppression by religious dogma and the moral hypocrites of individuals that shunned me for years, but i have come to realize that it doesn't make me a bad person, instead probably more interesting, and certainly none of the things that i find kinky or erotic would be considered taboo. Sooner or later we need to stop shaming people back into the closet, especially when it is your own spouse.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

It would be wrong to suggest that concerns about kink have less validity than other considerations. Becoming enmeshed in a sexually unsatisfying relationship can have devastating consequences and should be very carefully vetted beforehand. What constitutes unsatisfactory is up to the individual.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Fozzy said:


> It would be wrong to suggest that concerns about kink have less validity than other considerations.


This. And it speaks to the original question. Along with religion, spending / saving habits, music preference vacation preference, pet toleration. All of this and more should be considered before welding a couple together.
Now having said that, I didn't discuss everything. I didn't discuss my kink, it was the furthest thing from my mind. But it was less than a year before it resurfaced. Just lucky I guess.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Uhtred,

Perhaps we have two distinct dimensions. 
1. Desire to please
2. Raw adventurousness 

If (2) is strong you initiate a lot of variety. If (1) is strong, but (2) isn't you make an effort to accommodate your partners requests. 

If you marry someone who is high in both - that is best - provided they aren't making YOU anxious. 




uhtred said:


> By that I mean is someone's level of kinkiness a fairly immutable quality similar to sexual orientation. Is it important for couples to see if they are compatible that way before getting into a serious relationship? Is kinkiness closely related to overall level of sexual desire or is it orthogonal?
> 
> There have been a number of threads from people who who wish their partners were more adventuresome (eg kinky), I wonder how common this problem is. It easy for people to understand the frustration / unhappiness of a partner who refuses sex most of the time, but concerns that a partner won't engage in some sort of kinky play may seem less valid.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Let's have a clear definition of the words kink and fetish.

Years ago, someone said to me, "All Wiccans are Pagan, but not all Pagans are Wiccan". Kink and fetish are the same. All fetishes are kinks, but not all kinks are fetishes. A kink is something one can become aroused without where a fetish is nearly necessary for arousal.

Keeping that in mind, I'd say a fetish is more or less an orientation considering the fetishist either has difficulty or cannot become arouse without the fetish. A kink is slightly different as many people can still have a satisfying sex life without indulging their kink(s) while others need their kinks indulged at least sometimes to be satisfied.

My kinks are BDSM, Dom/sub, male-female roles centered. I didn't feel comfortable sharing my kinks with my exH or my AP's because it just felt wrong. My kinks were too personal to me and sharing them would have been an emotional/psychological intimacy I didn't feel comfortable with in what were basically casual relationships. During those years I had a satisfying sex life without my kinks. After meeting and falling in love with DH, we talked at length about our kinks and were scary compatible. Indulging the kinks finally made a satisfying sex life absolutely amazing.



FeministInPink said:


> I would say that it is crucial to determining kinky compatibility before entering into a serious relationship. Incompatibilities in regards to kink will make both partners very unhappy. That doesn't mean that EVERYTHING needs to be perfectly aligned--I don't think anybody will tick off EVERYTHING.


Everything doesn't _need_ to be aligned, but it's definitely possible to find a partner that ticks all boxes in terms of sexuality/kink and is equally compatible in other areas. Depending on the kink and how important it is to overall relationship and sexual satisfaction, some people really can't compromise and must find a partner that does check all boxes.



Young at Heart said:


> A married couple is not "static." One of the most important aspects of marriage is how two people change over time and how they work together and dealing with those changes.
> 
> I view the concept of finding a "kind, loving, kinky" partner that you marry and they will never change kind of searching for the wrong thing. Sort of like looking for a unicorn.
> 
> I think that you are better off looking for someone who is really committed to making a marriage work, who is loving, playful and exploratory. Someone who is a good person that you share long term values and dreams with.


This really depends on the kink. A "kind, loving, and (compatible) kinky" partner that won't change is a must for some kinksters. They need a partner who will indulge their kink enthusiastically for the entirety of their sex lives. Being willing just isn't enough, there has to be mutual enthusiasm and enjoyment of the kink for a lot of kinksters.



Fozzy said:


> It would be wrong to suggest that concerns about kink have less validity than other considerations. Becoming enmeshed in a sexually unsatisfying relationship can have devastating consequences and should be very carefully vetted beforehand. What constitutes unsatisfactory is up to the individual.


Truth.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

kinkiness can vary a LOT depending on age. You might be pure vanilla for half of your life, then get the urge to try something new, and off it is to the races.

The problem is the timing. Just when you decide to be kinky, your spouse is deciding they want less sex and pure vanilla only. LOL You can not win


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Let's have a clear definition of the words kink and fetish.
> 
> ..Keeping that in mind, I'd say a fetish is more or less an orientation considering the *fetishist either has difficulty or cannot become arouse without the fetish*. A kink is slightly different as many people can still have a satisfying sex life without indulging their kink(s) while others need their kinks indulged at least sometimes to be satisfied.
> 
> ...This really depends on the kink. *A "kind, loving, and (compatible) kinky" partner that won't change is a must for some kinksters.* They need a partner who will indulge their kink enthusiastically for the entirety of their sex lives. Being willing just isn't enough, there has to be mutual enthusiasm and enjoyment of the kink for a lot of kinksters.....


Fetish is kind of an over-used word. Thank you for the reminder. It has been a long time since college, but there is a huge difference.

Having been married for over 45 years to the same woman I can say that our relationship has changed over that time as has my wife. One of the most profound things that changes people is having children. It changes you in all kinds of ways and kids can find just about anything. I know people who got rid of toys and such when children began to walk and pull open drawers to explore. 

I have also heard my wife say that "I will not wear that, as my body has changed and I don't look good in that." 

I think hoping for *A "kind, loving, and (compatible) kinky" partner that won't change is a must for some kinksters* is not a totally realistic expectation. It may be desirable and a lofty goal, but hardly the norm.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> Fetish is kind of an over-used word. Thank you for the reminder. It has been a long time since college, but there is a huge difference.
> 
> Having been married for over 45 years to the same woman I can say that our relationship has changed over that time as has my wife. One of the most profound things that changes people is having children. It changes you in all kinds of ways and kids can find just about anything. I know people who got rid of toys and such when children began to walk and pull open drawers to explore.
> 
> ...


DH and I are noobs at marriage compared to you. We've only been married 14 years, but lived as married for nearly 3 years before that. Of course there have been changes over the years, but the core has remained the same. 

Sure, my body has changed from having children. That doesn't affect my willingness to wear some costume or other. It just means I have to look a bit harder to find something that suits me and still goes along with the general theme.

Sure, kids poke their noses into every nook and cranny and could discover Mom and Dad's sex toy stash, but locks are plentiful and inexpensive. Under mattress restraints, sex swings that hang from the door frame, stripper poles that collapse for storage, on and on. There are many stealth options available for parents.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> DH and I are noobs at marriage compared to you. We've only been married 14 years, but lived as married for nearly 3 years before that. Of course there have been changes over the years, but the core has remained the same.
> 
> Sure, my body has changed from having children. That doesn't affect my willingness to wear some costume or other. It just means I have to look a bit harder to find something that suits me and still goes along with the general theme.
> 
> Sure, kids poke their noses into every nook and cranny and could discover Mom and Dad's sex toy stash, but locks are plentiful and inexpensive. Under mattress restraints, sex swings that hang from the door frame, stripper poles that collapse for storage, on and on. There are many stealth options available for parents.


If you want a recommendation, yandy.com has a great selection in a wide variety of sizes, at great prices.

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