# im back



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

hello to all. i guess things haven't changed much here. people are still writing in with the same problems, looking for advise and solutions. And here I am a year down the line and I feel like I'm right back where I started from. I tried my best to get overcome this. But my husband is continuing the same behavior i mentioned in my earlier letters. if you havent read, basically he was flirting with other women online and calling and texting them. he probably met some of them and slept with them too. he did all this without me knowing the whole time we were married. but telling me everday how much he loves me and wants to be with me only. he is very manipulative and a compulsive liar. he is definately not the person I thought i married. i thought our marriage could be repaired but it became obvious that it cant, when i found out that he got 2 girls pregnant both right before the time the we got married. they both had abortions and to top it all off, he is still talking to a girl that he sent a vulgar text to, a while back. even though he knows how much it hurt me.ive prayed, ive cried, had so many sleepless nights, weve talked, done couseling,and he still lies. so now im considersing divorse. its sad but i dont know what else to do.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Divorcing is not an option that will "solve the problem." If anything, it compounds the problems because the original problems don't go away and because of the divorce there are additional problems!

I would suggest setting a clear boundary--and it sounds like you have set the boundary of no more flirting with other women yet he continues to ignore your needs and cross it. Thus, I would suggest moving to the consequence of crossing the boundary: separation. I would recommend that you consider a legal separation with the boundary again restated: You will consider reuniting with him ONLY when he has proven to you that he has been to counseling for his infidelity issues and proven he can behave in a faithful way for X amount of time (like 6 months to a year). Don't give him the chance to "fake it" for a month and then get you back. 

Then if he will not go to counseling and will not behave faithfully, let *HIM* start a divorce. Meanwhile you are away from his shenanigans living a more healthy life.


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

thanks affaircare for responding..just curious, did you read my other posts? if not you may want to take a look at them. the main problem is trust. i dont trust him, because he lies. and continues to do so. he has not genuinely tried to build back the trust in the marraige. if we can establish that then we can be together. but i dont say that happening. we keep going in circles.


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

nappilymarried said:


> thanks affaircare for responding..just curious, did you read my other posts? if not you may want to take a look at them. the main problem is trust. i dont trust him, because he lies. and continues to do so. he has not genuinely tried to build back the trust in the marraige. if we can establish that then we can be together. but i dont say that happening. we keep going in circles.


Just jumping in here quickly - don't want to intrude a lot. What Affaircare is talking about IS the way to rebuild trust. What Affaircare suggested is the best way to get the point across - and to rescue yourself from further hurt. I beg you to read the suggestion and consider it.

The secret to earning trust is match words and actions. 

By separating yourself from him, and letting your husband know that he must match words and actions before you will consider getting back together, you put the burden of the work on HIS shoulders, where it belongs. As it stands now, the two of you are dancing - you say 'x', he promises to do it, things go on a few more days, till he breaks promise. 

Wash, rinse, repeat. (Going in circles.) Doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different outcome - is not the best possible way to do anything...

Just to reiterate:_ divorce does not solve the problem_. It simply adds more problems. Do you really think he will be honest with you once he's divorced? All that will change are the situations in which you two dance. Divorce should be the very last thing you contemplate, after you've tried _every other approach_. 

Divorce will not make him honest. It will just change the problems you already have - and add more troubles to them.

Moreover - if you allow _him_ to divorce you, you can go into the (possibly) bright future knowing that YOU did all you could, and HE destroyed the marriage.


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

Well to tell you the truth ,he is away for about 6 months to a year. he went back to his country to work. his plan was to come back and visit or send me a ticket in late march or april. then for me to come stay for the summer. i work in america as a teacher. i really have no desire to go visit him. i need this time away. he is very manipulative, and has drained me mentally and physically.but just to let you know , he has worked away for long periods of time before and proven not to be trustworthy. the only thing is i didnt refuse to see him or talk to him. in fact it was the opposite. we talked often. and i tried to be as understanding as i could. .....so maybe thats what he needs. for me to totally cut him off. who knows? but i feel that it will more than likely backfire and he will do as he pleases anyway. but in 6 months he will come confessing his love. and im not sure i would even want him back after that.


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

personally, i dont think he would ever file for divorse......meanwhile.ill be still married to him. he knows i would still be faithful to him. he would love to have me there in the air just waiting on him to file. in his own passive aggressive way punishing me for wanting to divorse him.


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> ........so maybe that's what he needs. for me to totally cut him off. who knows? but i feel that it will more than likely backfire and he will do as he pleases anyway.


_Certainly_ he would be free to do what he pleases! _You cannot control him_ - as much as you seem to want to! _He is free to choose to live how he wants,_ but he cannot do that with you around. He'd have to stop that in order to get back together with you. Let me put that into another form: you won't allow him in your life until he demonstrates _real_ change!!! What has been proposed is that you do NOT have contact with him till he can prove himself. By maintaining close contact, you are enabling him to do as he pleases, since there is no negative consequence for bad behavior. It CANNOT backfire if you do not allow him back into your life until he STOPS the behavior that is harmful. 

Even if he did come back after 6 months, confessing his love - would this have any meaning? He can confess his love now! He may even feel all kinds of love for you. That isn't in question. It also in NO WAY proves that his words match his actions. What Affaircare is proposing is that you have NOTHING to do with him until he shows that he is serious. I'm sure Affaircare will give you some of the ways that you can tell if he is serious. I will just state this: 

Telling you he loves you is not proof that he has changed. That is just words. If this is what you consider 'manipulative' behavior - just remember - its only manipulative if you fall for it. It takes two to tango.

There are other issues here, though - what are you doing in one country while your husband is off working elsewhere? In my experience, that is one of the worst things that can happen to a marriage - it's no surprise there's some problems here! To make a marriage work, either he needs to stay home or you need to move with him!

What sorts of things did you do for him that made him feel safe enough, or secure enough around you to stop chasing after other women? What kinds of things did you do to make him feel safe enough to tell you the truth? 

On the other hand - what kinds of things have you done that make him feel like he would get more from someone else? What kinds of things have you done that give him cause to hide things from you?

At this point - the consequences for lying to you are that you don't trust him, and it should include the fact that he cannot come around you till he truly changes.



> personally, i dont think he would ever file for divorse......meanwhile.ill be still married to him.


Yes, if you don't divorce him, and he does not divorce you - you'll both still be married to each other. Even someone as senile as me can figure that out!



> ...he knows i would still be faithful to him.


By 'faithful' I take it you mean you would not have cheat on him. What steps have you taken to avoid this temptation?



> he would love to have me there in the air just waiting on him to file. in his own passive aggressive way punishing me for wanting to divorse him.


This makes absolutely no sense. How is him not divorcing you punishment for you not divorcing him? 

The only way this would leave you 'hanging in the air' is if you are already considering other people, rather than remaining faithful to your vows. Otherwise - you have a life to live - regardless of what he does! There is no 'hanging in the air' if you go about your normal life, working, taking care of the kids, watching movies, etc.


----------



## moonlover (Dec 30, 2009)

Nap there is really no reason for us to read the old post to see the pattern in your relationship. You are an enabler. His affairs has created a delusional sense security in time and separation. Time moves forward, unresolved problems will be there in the future. The same is true with space. Why would you think that not speaking to your husband, who already has monogamy issues, is going to help the relationship. I am never one to encourage divorce, be realistic of your expectations of this marriage. Two things cannot occupy the same space. That goes for both of you. Figure it out and stop using that relationship as an excuse. Stop believing that this what you deserve. I can tell you have been through somethings with other relationships. No pity! Only empowerment of who you are will be given. To Love Thy Self is to be Loved with Love.


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

Yanerlornpete, thanks for you response. I do not want to "control" my husband. i just wanted our marriage to work out. he says he does but im not sure that its true because if his actions. ive tried to be supportive by not being pushy or nagging but also telling him that he can express his feeling to me even if hes upset or agry. we have gone to counseling. but he felt that it was just for me. not for the marriage. he hasnt had a steady job here for a little over a year.which is partly his fault because he quit 2 different jobs, one because of his boss , one because of the hours. but i didnt throw that in his face. instead i buy newspapers on several occasions and try to help him find another job. but he didnt really see anything that instrest him. this is the 2nd time hes left the country to work. the first time he left, he was suppose to stay 3 weeks but it ened up being 3 months. he didnt make much money at all. and i knew he was very dissappointed with himself. i didnt get upset. i tried to console him and tell him that things would get better.while he was there we talked on line and on the phone. i didnt see or talk to other men. i wouldnt do that. i guess thats why this legal seperation thing doesn make sense to me because if im married i would not be comfortable being with other people. i have no desire to be with anyone else. and ive told my husband this before. i have only one male friend and he knows and lieks him. i had another friend that he didnt really care for. and i even stopped talking to him because he told me in counseling that he didnt feel comfortable with me talking to this particular guy. i try to be patient and understanding. im not a complainer or a nagger. even though he does things that i dont approve of. i try to sit down and talk and lay it down n the table. but it just doesnt work. im not a screamer or a yeller. and im not confrontaional so we dont argue or yell. ive even asked him what things can i do that im not doing to help him be more open with me. he says just leave him alone and wait till hes ready. well ive left him alone, and hes still not ready. im not sure if he will ever be. the bottom line is ive come to a conclusion that he wants his cake and eat it too. he wants me to be his faithful wife at home and he wants to live the single life on the side. hes' told me he would never divorce me. and if i wanted to divorse he he would never sign the papers. by hanging in the air i mean thats i would still be married to someone legally but not truly married in spirit. thats how i feel we are right now. this is a painful place to be. i do go about my life working, spending time with family and friends. we dont have any kids.but legal seperation doesnt sound like freedom to me. maybe fior him, but not for me. because i dont want to be with anyone else. i just know i dont want to be with someone who lies to me.


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

moonlover. i dont think that not speaking to my husband would help the relationship. that is one reason why i dont feel like seperation would work. i also know that if i continue to talk to him he will lie and still do what he wants to do. i may be an enablier but i do not believe i deserve this. i have not been through anything like this in any of my relationships.


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

tan. i do know that being apart is not good for the relationship . we have talked about this. but i cant make him stay. he wanted to go to his country to work. hes not worked here in a while.and he wanted to make more money. he says its for the family, but deep down i know hes doing it for himself. because he wants to do better. i dont fault him for that. i want him to do better too. so i didnt fight it when he left. and i cant move with him because he doesnt have a home of his own. he living with his mother there. i bought a house here in america before we were married. that would not be fair to her or me. back when i trusted him before i found out he was talking to other women. i would have still moved there and we would have gotten a house together, but now that hes showed me a different side of him, a dishonest side. i really dont trust dropping everything and living with him in his country.


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks for _your_ replies! A few things to consider:



> he says he does but im not sure that its true because if his actions.


This is the starting point for your marriage to recover (actually, to get better and stronger than it ever has been). You say you love your husband, but you also say you don't want to live with someone who lies to you. Your husband also says he wants to work on the marriage. This is good news, if you both mean it.

I noticed you have defended yourself by showing how you try not to confront him, try not to be controlling, etc. This is also all good news. It seems to me that regardless of what you are doing, _it isn't working out for you._ 

That means something _else_ is wrong. 

You know exactly what _you_ want from your husband - openness and honesty. But do you know exactly what _he_ wants from you. He asks you to 'leave him alone' - which usually means that he is feeling some pressure from you. If you are interested in working out a better marriage, you'll have to find out from him specifically the things he needs that make him feel loved - it never works to assume what someone wants. You just are not that person - nor are they you. You each, as individuals, have specific needs that the other is fully capable of meeting - and that work toward meeting those needs is a full one half of the key to a successful marriage. The other half is to keep in mind you made a life-long commitment to your spouse.

But things have moved somewhat beyond simply learning what his needs are and filling them - and that is, as a poster above noted - because you are enabling your husband's lying and other bad behaviors. You make him feel more comfortable doing his bad behaviors than you do his good ones. Regardless of the payoff - it's unhealthy for you and him. And yes, you do get what you want from your enabling behaviors. But keep in mind that every time you partake in this sick dance, you harm yourself, your husband, and your marriage even more.



> ...i didnt see or talk to other men. i wouldnt do that. i guess thats why this legal seperation thing doesn make sense to me because if im married i would not be comfortable being with other people. i have no desire to be with anyone else. and ive told my husband this before...


Whether this separation is 'legal' or simply by arrangement, _it has absolutely nothing to do with seeing or talking to other men_ (or women, in your husband's case.) If you were to do so in while separated, you would be having an affair. Again, it has *nothing* to do with seeing or talking to other men. 

It has entirely different purposes! By removing your enabling behavior, your husband is required to enable himself. Much more difficult. It also removes the lying and other bad behaviors from _your_ environment, giving you a more healthy place to live. It is a strong message that you send to your husband that there are behaviors that are damaging to your marriage. 

You say he wants to work on the marriage - excellent! This is how he can show you he is serious and not just saying things to keep you stringing along! If he is serious about working on the marriage, he will begin to do the things necessary - get himself into counseling, find work, begin to live honestly. And he will make these things a part of his life. And when they are a solid foundation, a normal part of his life, then you two can begin working on your relationship. 

Then - not now. 

Here's why: until you BOTH quit doing things that extinguish the love you feel for each other, you will never begin to kindle the love you can have. And that is not going to happen as long as you hang around your husband, helping him lie to you, and helping him use you. 



> he says just leave him alone and wait till hes ready. well ive left him alone, and hes still not ready. im not sure if he will ever be. the bottom line is ive come to a conclusion that he wants his cake and eat it too. he wants me to be his faithful wife at home and he wants to live the single life on the side.


That's exactly it - and you, for how long(?) have been bending over backwards to give him his cake. He asks you to leave him alone? Well, that's _EXACTLY_ what this separation will accomplish. He will be alone. _You have never left him *alone*_ (other than to refuse to go with him when he moves. You are ALWAYS there (phone, email, text) to give him the encouragement he needs to keep up with what he keeps on wanting to do. 

You are refusing to help yourself - which in turn would help him, which in turn would help your marriage. Instead, you spend your days weeping and moaning about how badly he treats you, and then rewarding him for doing just that. As I said before - regardless of the payoff you receive, it is unhealthy to all involved. 



> hes' told me he would never divorce me. and if i wanted to divorse he he would never sign the papers. by hanging in the air i mean thats i would still be married to someone legally but not truly married in spirit. thats how i feel we are right now.


There is one big difference. Right now you are 'halfway' married - you pay attention to the commitment - but neither of you is providing the emotional needs the other needs. Instead, you are both doing pretty much all you can to extinguish any love you may have left. This separation would be similar in that the commitment would still be honored. But the love extinguishers would be reduced drastically. And this separation, as Affaircare pointed out - is _TEMPORARY_. I'd suggest giving your husband one year. After that, all bets are off. 

Ask yourself - what is the worst that can happen in this separation? Is it worse than what you have now?



> this is a painful place to be. i do go about my life working, spending time with family and friends. we dont have any kids.but legal seperation doesnt sound like freedom to me. maybe fior him, but not for me. because i dont want to be with anyone else. i just know i dont want to be with someone who lies to me.


You say that this doesn't sound like freedom to you. _I take it you consider what you have now freedom?_ 

This separation is _most certainly_ freedom: freedom from his bad behavior. Freedom from the pain of daily being treated wrongfully. It can be bad at first - any separation is. But this form of separation is like a medical treatment. Surgery may not be pleasant - but it can save your life - and make things much less uncomfortable in the long run.

I have to be honest, however. From reading your replies, I get the distinct impression that you are not looking to fix your marriage! Nor even to get a divorce - that you can do on your own. I get the feeling you are looking for ways to justify considering infidelity on your own. You have turned the conversation into statements that you 'would never do such a thing' - turned any suggestion of a separation into ways to 'see other men,' etc. All of these have the ring of reverse objections - as in 'methinks the lady doth protest too much...' I certainly hope I'm not correct!


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

tan i did understand where u were coming from until the last paragraph. and i can assure you that you are 100% wrong about wanting to fix my marrige. i've wanted that for a little over a year now. i thought he did too. tears come to my eyes as im writing this. ive tried so hard to be the best wife i can be. and i know im not perfect, but i do try my best. and im drained im weary and i dont know what else to do. i also know hes unhappy but im not sure why. i am not considering infidelity on my own. im not sure how you got that impression. and maybe im old fashioned, but im not comfortable with the idea of legal seperation because i dont know much about it. i feel like if you are married you are married and if you are not, you're not, there is no in between. i do understand that we probably both need time away from each other. i get that part. but i guess what im tryin to say is. suppose we do this seperation thing and he gets a job, stop talking to women, stops lying. then 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, and a few kids later this circle repeats itself. then what? divorce?


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> ...ive tried so hard to be the best wife i can be. and i know im not perfect, but i do try my best. and im drained im weary and i dont know what else to do...


I can understand your frustration and the fact that you feel weary! I can imagine you _have_ done the best you could to save your marriage. (Here's a secret - nobody is perfect at marriage - the best we can ever do is work at it.)

But - there are a lot of things that can be done that can make it much, much better. Look at it this way: you've done all you can - and things don't seem to be working the way you want them to. Consider, for a moment, that _there may be things you haven't considered that may be the exact tools you need to change things for the better!_



> i also know hes unhappy but im not sure why.


That's something that you'll be able to work on MUCH better once the damage being done to your marriage stops.



> i am not considering infidelity on my own. im not sure how you got that impression.


I was hoping I was completely wrong on that - but it was an impression - and it comes from talking to many many people who offer the same sorts of objections that you do to what has been suggested. I'd rather check it out first and get any confusion cleared up. 

Your objections are basically this: when a separation from your husband until he proves he has changed is presented, you immediately counter the offer by saying 'but I don't want to see other people!' No one ever made that statement, and it is confusing as to why THAT and not a more standard objection would be what you offered. So I wanted to check.



> and maybe im old fashioned, but im not comfortable with the idea of legal seperation because i dont know much about it. i feel like if you are married you are married and if you are not, you're not, there is no in between.


A _separation_ does not end a marriage - a _divorce _does. Even if you are separated, you are still married. You are right - there is no 'in between.' It seems to be that you believe you can only be married if you are in the same house. But even that really makes no sense: in the times when he is in another country, miles away from you - wouldn't you say that you are still married?

Hopefully as you think about what I've written (and what Affaircare wrote) you'll understand more of what this separation means. It is NOT an end to your marriage. It is an attempt to save it.



> i do understand that we probably both need time away from each other. i get that part. but i guess what im tryin to say is. suppose we do this seperation thing and he gets a job, stop talking to women, stops lying. then 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, and a few kids later this circle repeats itself. then what? divorce?


No one can tell the future. Consider this: if this can work for you - even for just 5 years - isn't it pretty clear that if the cycle begins again - you will have a MUCH better idea of what to expect, how to face it, some means of fixing it?

So - suppose you get another 5 years together (and at least a few of them WITHOUT what is hurting you now!) Is it not possible within that 5 year period to actually begin to work on the things that caused the problems? Isn't it possible that you could_ both_ learn some very effective tools for improving your marriage? I have not suggested any particular steps to take regarding this, because your situation calls for first ending the things that are destroying your marriage. It's pretty much useless to try to be civil and sweet to someone who is simply going to ignore that and continue to hurt you (note - that works BOTH ways!)

I'd also like to chase off some other objections ahead of time. You are worried that if you are separated from him, he won't do the things necessary to fix your marriage. Is he doing them now?

You cannot control him, you cannot change him. Not by being nice, not by nagging, not by cajoling, pleading, crying, temper tantrums, not in any way, ever. All you can do is TRY to control him. And this will NOT result in the goal you want. He will change when HE wants to. And right now, you are always there, no matter what he does - you always patch things up, always look away, always give in. And as long as you do that - he will keep doing what he is doing.

The idea of this separation: to let him know that you are SERIOUS - that you will no longer put yourself through the pain that he inflicts on you. It gives him a chance to look at his life and decide how he wants it to progress. If he TRULY loves and wants you - _he will do WHATEVER it takes to come back into your life._


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

well i wrote my husband along letter letting him know that i wont speak to or see him until he can be honest with me. i made sure i told him exactly why. im pretty sure hes gotten it, because he checks his email everyday. but he hasnt responed. this could mean that hes trying to get his thoughts together or maybe he just doesnt care. i dont know. either way i have to admit, it does feel like a huge weight has been lifed off my shoulers since i did that. taking myself out of the picture was the best advice ever. thanks. im still not sure aout him or my marraige but im going to be ok.


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

nappilymarried said:


> well i wrote my husband along letter letting him know that i wont speak to or see him until he can be honest with me. i made sure i told him exactly why. im pretty sure hes gotten it, because he checks his email everyday. but he hasnt responed. this could mean that hes trying to get his thoughts together or maybe he just doesnt care. i dont know. either way i have to admit, it does feel like a huge weight has been lifed off my shoulers since i did that. taking myself out of the picture was the best advice ever. thanks. im still not sure aout him or my marraige but im going to be ok.


Awesome! Good for you!

I hope you keep coming back here to keep things posted - things will get difficult in the future - 

From here things go one of two ways - either he really doesn't care, or he does and will want to come back.

If he doesn't care at all, you won't hear from him much over the next few months - maybe once in a while to see if he can get something from you.

But if he DOES care:

For a while he most likely will try to spin things to get you to take him back. 

You probably won't hear from him for a while - at first he will be angry that you would be so 'cold' - but then he will begin to miss all you provide for him - all the support that gave him 'permission' to do the things he did.

This is where it gets hard. He has to be able to provide these things for himself. And once he has to provide them for hiimself, he'll begin to see how foolish and hurtful they are - and how badly they blow up in his face. _So you have to be strong. _ Don't give in, no matter how miserable he sounds. 

When he is strong, resourceful, competent, and also admits that he was wrong - AND - 

lets you know HOW he has been working to improve himself - the things he's done, the ways he's been wrong, the steps he's taken - 

THEN you can begin to consider opening yourself up to him more.

This CAN work for you.

And if it doesn't - you will ALWAYS know you did EVERYTHING in your power to make it work, and _you did not fail_. You will be strong! You can do it.


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

my husband sent me a message saying that he got my email and that he knows i dont want to talk to him. i told him that i was tired of setting myself up to get hurt and then i said goodbye, his reply was"so its like that?" no im sorrry or anything. i couldnt really tell if he was mad or what?. just seems like he still doesnt take me seriously or just doesnt care.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

No, he wants to see if he can bait you into dancing the same steps you've been dancing all along. For example, he's checking you to see if you really mean it or are you saying words you won't back up. 

nappily, do not worry about him right now and do not reply to him again. Even if he calls, txts and emails all night, do not reply. If you have to, turn off your phone and block him from emails to show him you mean it and you will not dance anymore. 

He is a grown man. He can choose to act faithful to you. He knows what he has to do in order to be part of your life. Now be strong for yourself and for him. You can do it!


----------



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

thanks aff. i know you are right because he tried to send me a message while i was on facebook, telling me that hes there for me when im ready..omg! he knows full well i told him that i wasnt talking to him until HE was honest and true to our marriage.the ball is in his court. i logged off, before he could send me more bs. i know this dance. and i refuse to be his dance partner anymore!


----------



## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

You should probably remove him from your friends list on Facebook to save yourself some stress.

The next few days are going to be tough - he'll try a lot of ways to get you to respond to him - be prepared for anything.

Also, this will be a tough time for YOU - you have to get over the 'addiction' of how you are tied up with him. It will take some time for things to get to a more normal feeling for you - please keep coming here - we'll be here watching to help you any way we can.

Thinking about and praying for you...


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Agreed with Tanelorn 100%. You will be tempted to "peek" and see if he's trying to contact....he will say things specifically to stir you up so you *will* contact...and nappily the very best thing you can do is make a promise to come here and talk it out before you reply to him at all. 

We are here and we are praying for you.


----------

