# Need women's advice...MMF fantasy pushing limits



## welder8899

Hello,

I'm a male, but thought posting in this forum would give me some perspective into the female thought process on this subject. I have been with my wife for close to 18 years, married for 13. WE have had a typical marriage of ups and downs, but for the most part our sex life has remained very active and enjoyable for both! As has the emotional part. We are very good at communication.

Over the last six months we have been fantasizing about having a MMF threesome. A common thread among couples who have been together as long as we have. This is something that when we talk about during sex mutually turns us both on. I am straight, so the excitement derives from me more or less enjoying the sight of my wife being pleasured by another man. 

She works hard with her job and is a wonderful mother, and I have always wanted her to experience all that life has to offer. Now mind you, we have awesome sex, where she'll hit climax anywhere from 2-5 times a session. But to see her have a change of pace, something fresh and new, while enjoyed in my company I thought would be a treat for us.

I decided to see where this would go, and introduced an acquaintance of mine to my wife via email. She had never met him. Never knew him. I told him to email her and flirt with her all in good fun. She works from home, stays at home, and has little male interaction in her life so I thought this would be a good way for her to get charged up. Well I was right. She asked of course if she could email him back and I agreed, and for the next week she informed me of all their conversations, which had turned to sexting. Which charged our sex life even further as role playing turned into her being my naughty little wife. So we were having conversations about bringing him into the bedroom for a one night romp...just conversations. No plans.

In between that time, my wife had to take a three night business trip. Well on the last night, she failed to respond to some of my texts after I knew she was at the bar. Which is totally out of character for her. Immediate red light goes off in my head, and I'm thinking something is up.

Turns out she met four men, one of which gently talked her into going back to his room within a matter of two hours. He knew she was married, shocker. She told me she was completely drunk. She is tiny, only 110lbs, and drank four whiskey's before they even showed up..again totally out of character. 

She doesn't remember why she actually did what she did, but that it had something to do with our mind games. She said it was all very surreal. She went back to his room, they made out, he took of all her clothing, kissed and sucked on her bre***s, and performed oral on her as well as some other things. But they didn't actually have intercourse. She said as he moved up towards her on the bed, that she was brought back into reality and pushed him off. He obliged and apologized and she left.

She confessed all this to me the next night. Not only that, but told her parents and my parents as well. She was guilt stricken for a very long time, and contemplated suicide even although just to me, which I associated to the newness of the guilt. Those feelings passed within 24 hours for her. But she felt very guilty, crying, disgusted in herself.

Where this really gets sick, is after she told me I left. I was so upset that I went and stayed at a hotel last night and just sat there replaying the events in my head. I forced her to tell me everything, and she hesitantly confessed to more and more.

The next day I came home and we went upstairs into our bedroom to talk. She was sitting on the bed and telling me how sorry she was for what she did. I couldn't help what happened next. I told her to fall to her knees and shift over towards me. I then told her to perform fellatio on me, and she complied, and I felt anger and power all in one sensation. I love my wife. And these feelings scared me, yet excited me. 

Over the next four weeks our sex life has been off the charts. I have forgiven her for her incident, and although I don't believe she stopped him, I really have no other choice but to accept it. 

This is so very out of character for my wife. She didn't even know his last name. But as time went on and I began to realize, I don't know how out of character this actually is? She has always had an inner edge that I knew existed, but never was given the chance to blossom? We married young, she was 23. I'm no prude either, so I wasn't preventing said "edge" from appearing in our lives. Fast forward to now, and my current challenges :

1 Two weeks after the incident she went to get her nipples pierced. I was with her of course, and was turned on by the thought so I said yeah, let's do it.

2. We continue to fantasize about this third person, and although I made her discontinue the sexting with that other man, we still talk about MMF scenarios during sex, and it's not always her bringing it up.

3. Most troubling, is she had some wine the other night, and was away on business. We were sending naughty pics back and forth, and she told me that "You know you're all I need, you satisfy me, I don't need anyone else, but if you want to explore this we should discuss it" And when I said I wasn't sure, she got all snippy at me. Told me "Screw you" That I'm messing with her mind. I just let it go that night because I knew she had been drinking.

So...My wife, similar to many females, has this sudden urge to be naughty. She is only 36, and I want her to live out her inner "edge" just in a controlled safe environment not jeopardizing our marriage like she almost did already. She has told me everything, and we remain deeply in love. We are even in MC now and not holding back any feelings, as I believe no matter what it is we're feeling not being honest is doing our family no good. 

I'm seeking advice on how to stop her from believing this fantasy may become a reality because it's not the actual act that won't turn me on, but it's the aftermath I don't think she is fully considering like I am. We have two young children, and I can't imagine complicating their lives for a night of euphoria brought on by sex. Yes, the idea turns me on significantly, but her behavior the other night about being upset that I'm not in agreement with taking strides to make this happen has me thinking....

We love each other. There has been no other infidelity in our marriage, and I have forgiven her for the incident, however the fact that this happened only a month ago, and she is already wanting to get back to introducing another person into our bed is alarming, no matter how much the thought turns me on.


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## firebelly1

I'm not sure I exactly know what you are asking. You seem to be asking how you can let your wife know that you aren't okay with this fantasy actually becoming a reality. Is that right? But when you describe giving her permission to sext with your friend, I was under the impression, and maybe your wife was also, that you were okay for that to lead to the real thing. 

From your post I felt like I was getting mixed signals from you and so maybe your wife is too. Maybe in the beginning you were okay with it but having seen her behavior, now you're not so sure. And seems like you need to have that conversation. Maybe you would be okay with her being with another guy as long as you can trust her to do it with you present, but her evening in the hotel would rightly have you doubting whether she would follow that kind of agreement. From the little bit I know, swinging / 3somes can only work if the partners involved trust each other explicitly and do exactly what their partners ask.


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## welder8899

Firebelly,

I believe you're right on the mixed signals, however it was never about a one on one affair. Where she broke trust. And she addresses her mistake as a wake up call as to what the fantasy always was about, and that was the both of us. I'm concerned that with her most recent miscue, and the rush to commence our conversations about doing it that where does this end? We do it, and it's great....and????

I have trust issues with her. I see her point about the mind games, but honestly, we're all adults, and I fear she used that as an excuse to get away with being care free for a night. I have tried to remain partial to judgment based on the variables involved, but I'm not quite sure I'm comfortable moving forward with a threesome even with me present so quickly after she broke my trust. 

She has use words and phrases, like "mid-life crisis". She is a very attractive woman, both physically and mentally so to see her confidence become even more defined since her step into infidelity it really has me thinking...


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## firebelly1

Yeah - so I can see why you're concerned about it now. She doesn't seem to just want to do it once and be done, she seems to be going through something that the two of you need to work out. I would start with..."I was okay with some playing but now I'm concerned about our marriage." That accurate?


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## happy as a clam

And this is why I am completely AGAINST swinging! MMF, MFF, FFF, h*ll, whatever scenario you can think of.

Your INTIMACY has been violated. Someone else has entered your "space." Now you are going crazy picturing other men in your place.

You need to reel this fantasy life in, or else accept what YOU have created.


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## Dad&Hubby

Wow, crazy story! 

Not sure what to say...


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## xakulax

Threesome are a trap do not fall for it. What you need to do is work on your marriage you guys have issues that need to be resolved before you bring in a another party.


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## Married but Happy

Did you even discuss boundaries and process surrounding the idea? Clearly she went outside what was expected, but perhaps didn't know what was expected. Anyway, preemptively acting on any such fantasy without your approval and participation is cheating, IMO. Also, you can change your mind at any time about making any fantasy a reality, and there should be no argument about that. You are a couple, so it needs to be a joint decision.


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## youkiddingme

So......you want to enjoy getting your wife excited about having sex with someone else......and then are upset because she wants to do it????

Can you see how that's not going to work?

You have got to pick what you want here. If you don't want her to start thinking about doing it with other men, you will have to quit feeding that fantasy.


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## welder8899

So as adult human beings, we shouldn't be able to detach ourselves from fantasy and reality? I don't buy into that youkiddingme. Yes, we discussed how hot it would be, but at no point was there a green light to go mess around with anyone, regardless of what fantasy we BOTH were having.

I am upset that she did what she did and broke the trust that we're in counseling seeking to repair. 

But to think our sex should be vanilla because any fantasy we discuss during it automatically means "This is what my husband and I fantasize about so this is what I'm going to do..."

That is a ludicrous excuse for infidelity.

Boundaries weren't discussed because it was just a fantasy. We were pushing the line, but never had a plan to make it a reality.

Firebelly, I agree with you. I'm concerned that this episode while she was away stirred up some energy to be desired by other men, which I know can be a very intense feeling for women, and she seems to just be riding the wave. But I know if we went through with it, I can't honestly say that I'm confident it would stop at the one adventure.

So if I tell her this isn't happening, what is stopping her from doing it on her own?

I do appreciate everyones comments.


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## firebelly1

welder8899 said:


> So if I tell her this isn't happening, what is stopping her from doing it on her own?
> 
> I do appreciate everyones comments.


This question - what's stopping my SO from cheating - is a question for everybody no matter what fantasies or activities you entertain. You can't control what she does. Period. You are vulnerable and there's no running from it. Time to buddha up on this one and be honest and present with yourself and her and accept that the chips will fall where they may. I think it's good you're in counselling.


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## welder8899

therosenberg,

I appreciate your comments. And yes, I can't honestly say we wouldn't have gone through with it the first time had she not stepped into this mess while away. So now for me it becomes more of a "well is this just for her afterall???" I don't know. I know she was eternally distraught and disgusted by her actions and vowed to never do that again without me. But I do agree with some of your points. Women of today are not like women of yesteryear, and either is your traditional marriage.

I'd rather my wife enjoy some fun and explore her sexuality with me there in the know, full on communication then have it like half the men commenting, with their wives doing it behind their back. To think that your wife will be content with one penis and man for eternity is ignorant. They may not all be acting on their desire, but the desire is there. 

But for me it continues to be the what if's that prevent me from moving forward. Until I can grasp and be content with the what if's everything is on hold.

My wife is a highly charged sexually individual right now and I just want to embrace it, "carefully" rather than make her feel wrong for having her feelings and thus pushing her away. I hope that makes some sense.


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## lifeistooshort

Why aren't the guys pointing out that when you offer your wife to other men it tells her she's of little value to you?
OP, I get that you want your wife to have fun but maybe the message she's actually getting is that you don't value her. Based on your story I don't see how she could possibly have known what your boundaries are; if your only goal is for her to have fun why can't she do it away from you? Did you make clear you had to be there, in which case it's only partially about her fun and partially because you want to see your wife with another man? That tells her she's of low value.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## welder8899

Life,

I know it's difficult to understand looking in from the outside, but my wife knows her value to me. I love her. She does not feel like you're suggesting, but looking in, I understand you. I think the thought of pleasing me as a dominant sexual mate also plays into the scenario.

There was never an understanding that she could act alone, and I think that's where even though we were playing these highly sexual driven games that she is so disgusted, because intelligence wise she is off the charts, and knowing that she misread her desires that led to this incident drove her mad, until she finally believed I forgave her. 

I never said we were a traditional sexual couple, you know missionary once a week and lights out. We have some complex sexual mind games that have become part of our therapy into understanding the underlying behavioral concepts of why they exist and safe ways to explore them.


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## happy as a clam

therosenberg said:


> ...maybe your wife loves the idea as a fantasy, but when the chance came to make it a reality, she changed her mind, as you explained.


Ummm... maybe I'm missing something here. I don't think she changed her mind at all. *She allowed a man to go down on her and perform oral sex!* Booze, "surrealness," out-of-body experience, she can call it what she wants, but she still had sex with a stranger.

Stopping short of intercourse does not mean they didn't have sex. Oral sex is about as intimate as you can get, in my opinion.


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## naiveonedave

how do you know there was no piv? she just cheated on you, cheaters lie, tt, miniize, etc.


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## happy as a clam

naiveonedave said:


> how do you know there was no piv?


Again, who cares about PIV?!?! In my opinion, deep tongue kissing and oral sex are FAR more intimate than b*nging away with a stranger. My God, the woman allowed a stranger to lick the pie, the holiest of holy places on her body. Her sacred shrine that belonged to HER and HER HUSBAND. Serious counseling is the next step for this couple.

I will NEVER understand why betrayed spouses believe that anything short of intercourse is okay.


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## welder8899

I'm not in agreement that what she did was right. No it was horribly wrong. And yes, I have come to terms with the fact that she has had sex, although according to her not intercourse but yes sex with another man, but I may be more of a realist than happy clam. More of a ya know, in the now. 

I work, and have to travel sometimes for my job. Do you know how many men I see down at the bar who are married and all of a sudden not wearing their wedding rings? Do you know how many stories I can share about men and how they've cheated on their wife and actually boast about not telling her and living the lie....Dozens upon dozens.

I'm experienced enough to understand that nobody is perfect and I wouldn't doubt it Mr. Happy Clam may even have had his own brush with infidelity, but I knew posting this scenario I'd be receptive to ignorance coming from such.

Yes, my god, some dude may have licked my wife! OMG NO!!!! I've been with her for 18 years. Do you think I'm going to let that destroy it all???

Why on earth do you think she told me, my parents, her parents forever casting that label upon her head? She didn't have to do that. She could live in sin, quietly, probably like your wife does Happy Clam, with her little secret. 

No she told me because we have something that most couples today lack, communication and honesty.

Yeah she messed up. And yeah, it's a one time deal because ultimately she knows what's on the line if it happens again, and that in itself is enough counseling to set her back in line.


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## Created2Write

welder8899 said:


> So as adult human beings, we shouldn't be able to detach ourselves from fantasy and reality? I don't buy into that youkiddingme. Yes, we discussed how hot it would be, but at no point was there a green light to go mess around with anyone, regardless of what fantasy we BOTH were having.
> 
> I am upset that she did what she did and broke the trust that we're in counseling seeking to repair.
> 
> But to think our sex should be vanilla because any fantasy we discuss during it automatically means "This is what my husband and I fantasize about so this is what I'm going to do..."
> 
> That is a ludicrous excuse for infidelity.
> 
> Boundaries weren't discussed because it was just a fantasy. We were pushing the line, but never had a plan to make it a reality.
> 
> Firebelly, I agree with you. I'm concerned that this episode while she was away stirred up some energy to be desired by other men, which I know can be a very intense feeling for women, and she seems to just be riding the wave. But I know if we went through with it, I can't honestly say that I'm confident it would stop at the one adventure.
> 
> So if I tell her this isn't happening, what is stopping her from doing it on her own?
> 
> I do appreciate everyones comments.


I would absolutely agree with everything here...if you hadn't set your friend up to email and sext her. That takes what _was_ a fantasy, and makes it reality. Your wife didn't seek out your friend to email her, _you_ set that up, and you told him to flirt with her. You didn't lay out your boundaries, and you should have. And what you're facing now are the consequences. 

Now, does that make what your wife did any less wrong? No way. When you failed to lay out boundaries, she should have come and asked you what they were, instead of assuming you'd be okay. Moreover, she should have thought about the actual details of the fantasy...it wasn't supposed to be her having sex with other men without you, even in the fantasy _you_ were there, apart of it. That's all on her. 

But don't make the mistake in thinking you're innocent, because you're not.


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## happy as a clam

welder8899 said:


> I'm experienced enough to understand that nobody is perfect and *I wouldn't doubt it Mr. Happy Clam may even have had his own brush with infidelity*, but I knew posting this scenario I'd be receptive to ignorance coming from such.


Wow. You have sunk to a *new low.*


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## happy as a clam

Goodbye Welder. Good riddance.


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## welder8899

Love how you refer to yourself in the third person. Hey Mr. Happy is Wilson there with you from Cast Away. You all are living on a deserted island together...Masquerading your love of each other around as choices....You are such a woman. Haha.


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## happy as a clam

welder8899 said:


> Love how you refer to yourself in the third person. Hey Mr. Happy is Wilson there with you from Cast Away. You all are living on a deserted island together...Masquerading your love of each other around as choices....You are such a woman. Haha.


Welder... I really don't blame your woman for screwing around on you...


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## happy as a clam

I make no apologies for calling out scum when necessary.


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## happy as a clam

therosenberg said:


> I'm not taking sides, but I don't think it was necessary to let the conversation get out of hand like this.
> 
> Come on!


Agree... Welder, who just joined days ago, has gone off the rails.


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## Created2Write

Happy, you've said your piece. Let it be. Neither of you are behaving like adults, but welder did come asking for advice, so can you let him alone?


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## happy as a clam

Created2Write said:


> Happy, you've said your piece. Let it be. Neither of you are behaving like adults, but welder did come asking for advice, so can you let him alone?


Sorry, C2W, but I have done NOTHING but behave like an adult when I joined this site MONTHS AGO. My posts, my "likes", my decorum speaks for itself.

But when someone PERSONALLY attacks ME because they don't like what they're hearing about their own situation, my claws come out.

I appreciate you trying to calm this situation, but the truth is, I am checking out of this thread (I know it will make Welder happy).

He is just trying to justify ALLOWING his wife to have clandestine sexual affairs without taking any responsibility himself for the fact that *he drove her to it*.

Good luck, Welder.


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## welder8899

Yes advice, not whether or not it was right for my wife to let another man do what he did, nor pointing out the difference between sex and intercourse which everyone on this site is aware of I'm sure. If that is advice worth "liking", I guess I came to the wrong website. 

I directed my post to the women's lounge as to avoid such trivial and uneducated remarks.


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## welder8899

If anyone could please direct me to the post where I refused any responsibility into this situation please do so. I'm not here to point fingers at my wife for her incident. I'm here to understand her and what she is thinking NOW from a woman's perspective.


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## Created2Write

Welder, when you ask for advice, you do need to prepare yourself for comments, remarks, and statements that you either won't like, or won't agree with. To me, it makes no difference what kind of sex went on between your wife and the other man. To me, the flirting and sexting with your friend is the same as the oral sex she got from the other guy. 

What _I_ think should be done from here: people make massive mistakes in their lives. You've said that you don't want to totally end the fantasy, else she go and do it without you. But you don't want her to hope for something(like a threesome) that you now know you wouldn't be comfortable with. Based on the amount of guilt and shame she expressed in response to the oral sex, I don't think you need to be concerned with her going behind your back and having sex with strangers. So, I think you absolutely need to be upfront with her about how you feel with regards to actually having a threesome. If you're still okay with the fantasy of it, tell her that, but make your boundaries very clear, and ask that she do the same. Also, I think you should own to the fact that by asking your friend to email, flirt with, and sext with her, you _were_, at the very least, confusing her. I think you should apologize for that, because that was your choice. She even asked your permission to email him back, and you gave it, so she needs to see that she isn't the only one who has messed up here. If _I_ had been your wife, I would have taken that to mean that our relationship was now open, and I could accept sexual advances from other men. Perhaps you wife took it that way, too?

Once each of you has outlined your boundaries and sexual expectations, you'll have a clearer idea of where to go.


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## Created2Write

happy as a clam said:


> Sorry, C2W, but I have done NOTHING but behave like an adult when I joined this site MONTHS AGO. My posts, my "likes", my decorum speaks for itself.
> 
> But when someone PERSONALLY attacks ME because they don't like what they're hearing about their own situation, my claws come out.
> 
> I appreciate you trying to calm this situation, but the truth is, I am checking out of this thread (I know it will make Welder happy).
> 
> He is just trying to justify ALLOWING his wife to have clandestine sexual affairs without taking any responsibility himself for the fact that *he drove her to it*.
> 
> Good luck, Welder.


An adult would have ignored his statements about you, and responded to his actual situation, realizing that he is, at this moment, facing a difficult issue in his marriage. You didn't do that. Perhaps your other posts were conducted in a mature fashion, but in _this_ thread your behavior has been very childish, indeed, and only made it worse.


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## welder8899

C2W,

I appreciate your feedback, although our scenario was very clearly communicated, and never was it once suggested that she do anything without me being present, hence the guilt on her part and the break in trust.

But I do concur. We have some thing that need to be tabled, openly by both parties.


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## Created2Write

I hear you, I'm only saying to consider what _she_ may have thought. I know there are times when I communicate something with my husband and I think I was clear as a bell, and then he tells me that no, I wasn't clear at all. 

I am also curious...what do you think about setting your friend up to email and flirt with her?


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## Lyris

Your OP is way too explicit for this site. You might want to tone it down before it gets deleted.


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## firebelly1

Lyris said:


> Your OP is way too explicit for this site. You might want to tone it down before it gets deleted.


I'm not sure which posts you are reading Lyris but I've seen plenty of posts like welders and they haven't been taken down. Nor has this one.


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## lifeistooshort

Welder, let me share what happened to a close friend of mine. Years ago her husband approached her about an open marriage; at the time she shot it down but I can tell you it made her feel like she was not valued and she never forgot it. Her husband, like you, LOVES her and he'd probably respond just like you. Many years later she's still upset about it and meets a guy at work; she reapproaches hubby about an open marriage and initially he agrees, but then expresses reservations because there was nobody lined up for him. She proceeds to have oral with this guy and feels terrible about it, and does tell her husband, but the fact was that with the introduction of the open marriage and the failure to create solid boundaries their boundaries became very blurry. That's what I'm saying may have happened to your wife; I know you say she knows you love her (probably true) and that she knew what she was doing wasn't ok (my friend knew it too), but once you blur those boundaries there can be unforseen consequences. If it helps my friend and her hb worked it out, but please in the future do not "punish" your wife by demanding specific sex acts. If you want said sex acts ask your wife for them, but punishing her like that for something that in some ways you started is crappy. You were just as much at fault as she was; learn from it and move forward. Lady's opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris

I'm referring to the OP. And we'll just have to agree to disagree.


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## WallaceBea

The fantasizing with each other is perfectly okay in my books, but she crossed the line when she fooled around with another guy while you weren't there. 

I think it should be very clear from her forward - it is okay to fantasize, but it isn't okay to act on these fantasies if you two are not acting on them together. Aka, you can fool around with other people, but you should always be in the same room as one another. 

I know swingers who sleep with other people, but they are always in the same room as their spouse, so as to not make their spouse feel left out. 

I hope this helps.


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## WallaceBea

happy as a clam said:


> Wow. You have sunk to a *new low.* I can ASSURE you Mr. Happy As A Clam has not licked some other skank's p*ssy. You don't know me at all, you don't know Mr. Happy at all, what gives you the right, you pompous *ss, to insult us this way?!?!
> 
> If you want to say it's okay that some other male wh*re licked your wife's holiest of holiests, if it makes you feel better to degrade others in the process, then HAVE AT IT, BRO! If it makes you feel better to drag other innocents into your gutter, I feel very sorry for you. Your wife is a tramp.
> 
> Go away, back to the troll bridge you crawled out from under.


I may regret getting involved here, but I just want to say, name calling is never productive, and I while I think you have a right to be angry at what was said to you, you do not have a right to call anyone's wife a "tramp", in my opinion.


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## DoF

wow, WOW, and WHOLLY BATMAN WOW

Jesus.......

OP, you have left me completely speechless. I'm at a loss of words. 

PS. Get checked for STD, FAST.


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## DoF

welder8899 said:


> C2W,
> 
> I appreciate your feedback, although our scenario was very clearly communicated, and never was it once suggested that she do anything without me being present, hence the guilt on her part and the break in trust.


So she cheated. That seems pretty clear to me!

Simple as that.

If your wife was intelligent she would have lost ALL respect for you when you brought up MMF. That basically tells her you care NOTHING for her.

Keep fantasy and reality completely separated.


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## welder8899

Life,

I understand your story, and your comments. Our role playing has crossed over into real life and that's where the rubber hits the road. I'm glad we're going to counseling as this is helping us to understand some of the underlying behavior that has lead to our current situation.

At no point in time did we discuss in open marriage. I do not want to be with another woman, so although similar, I do see a major difference is our stories. He proposed an open marriage to satisfy a hunger for himself, selfishly. 

We had a fantasy that overlapped into reality by both our doings. However at no point was what she did part of any fantasy. It was done on impulse, a whim, because as she put it, she wanted to do something "crazy" and that is the alarming thing for me.

I need to make sure she isn't indulging in these feelings of being desired. Because no offense to any of the women that have given me advice, but if you're sitting alone at a bar there is oooohhhhh a 110% chance that someone is going to chat you up, whether it be a patron or the bartender.

My wife made some terrible choices, but they're made. We just need to deal with the aftermath, which is why there should be no discussion of a third person of any sort right now, if not ever.


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## welder8899

DoF,

It was a mutual fantasy. I didn't one day sit her down at breakfast and tell her I wanted a MMF. If you're with a person for a long period of time, yes...fantasies will enter your marriage whether you choose to indulge in them or not is totally based on the couple, and you'd be surprised at the percentages. 

However, it's also an easy excuse to cheat on your spouse now isn't it?


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## Cosmos

lifeistooshort said:


> Why aren't the guys pointing out that when you offer your wife to other men it tells her she's of little value to you?
> OP, I get that you want your wife to have fun but maybe the message she's actually getting is that you don't value her. Based on your story I don't see how she could possibly have known what your boundaries are; if your only goal is for her to have fun why can't she do it away from you? Did you make clear you had to be there, in which case it's only partially about her fun and partially because you want to see your wife with another man? That tells her she's of low value.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

It sounds to me as though the OP wants his W to have the fantasy and the fun, but only if he's able to control both.

Frankly, I think you're both on a very slippery path, OP... If my SO were to even _suggest_ such a thing to me, I would lose interest in him immediately. I know my value and if he doesn't, I wouldn't want to be with him.


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## DoF

therosenberg said:


> What's done is done. Welder is just trying to cope with this situation and find a solution because he loves his wife and she loves him. That is, of course, if I've understood the situation correctly. So let's focus on that instead of passing judgment on them as if we were morally superior, ok?
> 
> What's done is done. Welder is just trying to cope with this situation and find a solution because he loves his wife and she loves him. That is, of course, if I've understood the situation correctly. So let's focus on that instead of passing judgment on them as if we were morally superior, ok?


I'm sorry. His wife went out to the bar, ALONE and got drunk with bunch of guys and got sexual with one.

You call that love for him?

Actions speak louder than words. His wife made an extremely poor decision and put herself into an extremely vulnerable situation. She added alcohol to it which made it that much worse.

Even under the assumption that they both decided to open marriage, she went off and cheated on him and didn't even come CLOSE to what he was asking for.

OP should head off to infidelity forum now....


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## DoF

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It sounds to me as though the OP wants his W to have the fantasy and the fun, but only if he's able to control both.
> 
> Frankly, I think you're both on a very slippery path, OP... If my SO were to even _suggest_ such a thing to me, I would lose interest in him immediately. I know my value and if he doesn't, I wouldn't want to be with him.


:iagree:

OP, keep your fantasies to yourself...and leave them in your head.

The consequence of you not doing so are what you have today. And I'm sorry to tell you this but your marriage is heading down a spiral now......

Sorry


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## DoF

welder8899 said:


> At no point in time did we discuss in open marriage. I do not want to be with another woman, so although similar, I do see a major difference is our stories. He proposed an open marriage to satisfy a hunger for himself, selfishly.
> 
> We had a fantasy that overlapped into reality by both our doings. However at no point was what she did part of any fantasy. It was done on impulse, a whim, because as she put it, she wanted to do something "crazy" and that is the alarming thing for me.


I'm glad you are recognizing that.

She has completely broke your trust and should no longer be trusted (until that trust is restored.....if that ever happens)....and assuming you even want to continue a relationship with this woman.

It would also be very hard to take her word for no intercourse....I just struggle to believe that/buy that (in that situation). Regardless though, with or without intercourse she cheated on you.

You see, that's why I don't believe in swinging. Because it really takes a mature and disciplined person to do it and we all know that even mature/disciplined people make mistakes. There are also feelings that naturally creep up when you are sexual with someone.

Just an extremely dangerous slope that's not worth risking the marriage for.

If you do decide to work/repair the relationship, best advice I can give you is "everyone deserves a second chance, but NOT third!"

Personally I wouldn't even give her a 2nd chance, but that's just me.....


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## convert

you have to have great communication in the relationship for this to even think about it, and it still may go wrong.

swingers need boundaries and rules just like anybody else.

It might be a control thing for OP too.

I sort of wish my ww would have at least suggested this before she cheated, still do not know if i would of went through with it, but i would have some control IDK.

I even talk about it at one point she said it was disgusting and still cheats.


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## Created2Write

It started with the suggestion of the fantasy, and became reality with the email sexting and flirting. Just by allowing her to flirt and sext with another man, that man was entered into the marriage in a sexual way. Even if non-verbal, it communicated that she was free to have a sexual relationship with someone other than her husband, and the cheating is the physical result of that.


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## Morgiana

@OP
I must say that I'm open to these types of situations as well, but I believe that in order to make them work you really have to TALK about them much more than you have to talk about sex in a 'normal' marriage. You have to be comfortable having that talk with your spouse and you have to be willing to listen and respect the boundaries you create together for anything 'more' to happen. 

It just sounds like you guys didn't take the fantasy far enough in RL to put boundaries in place. I can see how your wife would be thinking you keep changing your mind. You need to sit down and really _talk_ with her if the MMF is something she still is interested in. Or did she figure out based on how she felt that it's something she doesn't think she can handle. And you need to let her know how _you_ feel about it to. Tell her that because of what happened you aren't comfortable with a MMF now, and you may never be (or however it is you feel).

@therosenberg, I'm really interested in what your experiences are (if any) with this type of thing. Sounds like a PM is in order .

Cheers,
-M


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## Plan 9 from OS

OP was banned, so is the story fake?

If it's not fake, I will point out that the OP already invited a 3rd person into the marriage. Recall his old acquaintance has been having a sexting affair with the OP's wife. Granted, she showed the OP everything so it wasn't technically cheating; however, she DID exchange intimacy with another male via emotional means. 

I guess that 3rd person was already introduced to this marriage. Now he'll need to figure out if he can close the door.


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## Jellybeans

welder8899 said:


> I'm seeking advice on how to stop her from believing this fantasy may become a reality because it's not the actual act that won't turn me on, but it's the aftermath I don't think she is fully considering like I am.
> 
> We love each other. There has been no other infidelity in our marriage, and I have forgiven her for the incident, however the fact that this happened only a month ago, and she is already wanting to get back to introducing another person into our bed is alarming, no matter how much the thought turns me on.


Play with fire, get burned.


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## Jellybeans

Plan 9 from OS said:


> OP was banned, so is the story fake?



Dammi! I hate when I respond after someone's already been axed!


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## firebelly1

Why would he have been banned? If it were because of the post, wouldn't they have taken it down?


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## firebelly1

therosenberg said:


> Yeah, I was asking that on another thread the other day.
> 
> It seems that new users come here often enough, they post their situations and before the thread even reaches a conclusion, the OP is banned. I've seen it happen several times now, in the few days I've been here.


That's a bummer. He seemed like a person with a genuine issue and this should be a forum where he could ask for advice. Still scratching my head over why this post is still up then.


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## Created2Write

Sometimes trolls will come and make a few different accounts, which is against the rules. I don't know if the OP did that or not, but it is a reason why some seemingly "new" posters get banned.


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## lookinforhelpandhope

Here's my take on this.

All the talk of your MMF fantasy, especially while having sex, has cause your wife to cook up a storm in her own head. Got her yearning for different things. E-mailing with the other guy has intensified that desire and all of a sudden she has a very strong desire to try something (perhaps anything) different.

She then has a few drinks, the fantasy and intensified desire are still very strong and along comes someone who she thought at the time could satisfy that yearning.


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## welder8899

UPDATE:
We have had some pretty intense marriage counseling dates the last few weeks. Things seem to be settling down and getting back in line. I don't think about the incident every hour on a daily basis. I have convinced myself that she is telling me the truth and her actions over the last few weeks have acknowledged this. In the grand scheme of things a 17 year relationship 12 of which we're married can't be destroyed within a 25 minute window of what she has explained as being nothing like our fantasy was supposed to make her feel. Again, I have to believe her, and I do. I agree with many of the comments and disagree with some as well, primarily the one's that speculate the relationship is over because of this mistake. 

We played with fire, burned??? I don't think so. Had my wife been having a steamy affair with the landscaping guy, well that's one thing, but a drunken sloppy incident that she suggests was a horrible disgusting experience is something completely different. 

What I'm learning is that our relationship is still very strong, and had it not have been, there would be no reason for her to stay with me if she indeed is not in love with me. This would be her perfect opportunity to move on.

As for the MMF threesome, it's shelved at the moment. At some point in time I do believe it will happen, but as some pointed out, communication is very important, and although the motives were very well laid out from the beginning, the desires overcame rules. 

I believe the last comments from lookingforhelpandhope described what happened in the best manner.

Marriage is about the ups and downs, the stupid mistakes and most importantly the forgiveness that is essential for moving forward. 

I was suspended for "baiting" a member, not sure how accurate that was, but whatever. I appreciate the advice that's been shared.


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## firebelly1

Glad you're back welder.


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## Doncuck

welder8899 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm a male, but thought posting in this forum would give me some perspective into the female thought process on this subject. I have been with my wife for close to 18 years, married for 13. WE have had a typical marriage of ups and downs, but for the most part our sex life has remained very active and enjoyable for both! As has the emotional part. We are very good at communication.
> 
> Over the last six months we have been fantasizing about having a MMF threesome. A common thread among couples who have been together as long as we have. This is something that when we talk about during sex mutually turns us both on. I am straight, so the excitement derives from me more or less enjoying the sight of my wife being pleasured by another man.
> 
> She works hard with her job and is a wonderful mother, and I have always wanted her to experience all that life has to offer. Now mind you, we have awesome sex, where she'll hit climax anywhere from 2-5 times a session. But to see her have a change of pace, something fresh and new, while enjoyed in my company I thought would be a treat for us.
> 
> I decided to see where this would go, and introduced an acquaintance of mine to my wife via email. She had never met him. Never knew him. I told him to email her and flirt with her all in good fun. She works from home, stays at home, and has little male interaction in her life so I thought this would be a good way for her to get charged up. Well I was right. She asked of course if she could email him back and I agreed, and for the next week she informed me of all their conversations, which had turned to sexting. Which charged our sex life even further as role playing turned into her being my naughty little wife. So we were having conversations about bringing him into the bedroom for a one night romp...just conversations. No plans.
> 
> In between that time, my wife had to take a three night business trip. Well on the last night, she failed to respond to some of my texts after I knew she was at the bar. Which is totally out of character for her. Immediate red light goes off in my head, and I'm thinking something is up.
> 
> Turns out she met four men, one of which gently talked her into going back to his room within a matter of two hours. He knew she was married, shocker. She told me she was completely drunk. She is tiny, only 110lbs, and drank four whiskey's before they even showed up..again totally out of character.
> 
> She doesn't remember why she actually did what she did, but that it had something to do with our mind games. She said it was all very surreal. She went back to his room, they made out, he took of all her clothing, kissed and sucked on her bre***s, and performed oral on her as well as some other things. But they didn't actually have intercourse. She said as he moved up towards her on the bed, that she was brought back into reality and pushed him off. He obliged and apologized and she left.
> 
> She confessed all this to me the next night. Not only that, but told her parents and my parents as well. She was guilt stricken for a very long time, and contemplated suicide even although just to me, which I associated to the newness of the guilt. Those feelings passed within 24 hours for her. But she felt very guilty, crying, disgusted in herself.
> 
> Where this really gets sick, is after she told me I left. I was so upset that I went and stayed at a hotel last night and just sat there replaying the events in my head. I forced her to tell me everything, and she hesitantly confessed to more and more.
> 
> The next day I came home and we went upstairs into our bedroom to talk. She was sitting on the bed and telling me how sorry she was for what she did. I couldn't help what happened next. I told her to fall to her knees and shift over towards me. I then told her to perform fellatio on me, and she complied, and I felt anger and power all in one sensation. I love my wife. And these feelings scared me, yet excited me.
> 
> Over the next four weeks our sex life has been off the charts. I have forgiven her for her incident, and although I don't believe she stopped him, I really have no other choice but to accept it.
> 
> This is so very out of character for my wife. She didn't even know his last name. But as time went on and I began to realize, I don't know how out of character this actually is? She has always had an inner edge that I knew existed, but never was given the chance to blossom? We married young, she was 23. I'm no prude either, so I wasn't preventing said "edge" from appearing in our lives. Fast forward to now, and my current challenges :
> 
> 1 Two weeks after the incident she went to get her nipples pierced. I was with her of course, and was turned on by the thought so I said yeah, let's do it.
> 
> 2. We continue to fantasize about this third person, and although I made her discontinue the sexting with that other man, we still talk about MMF scenarios during sex, and it's not always her bringing it up.
> 
> 3. Most troubling, is she had some wine the other night, and was away on business. We were sending naughty pics back and forth, and she told me that "You know you're all I need, you satisfy me, I don't need anyone else, but if you want to explore this we should discuss it" And when I said I wasn't sure, she got all snippy at me. Told me "Screw you" That I'm messing with her mind. I just let it go that night because I knew she had been drinking.
> 
> So...My wife, similar to many females, has this sudden urge to be naughty. She is only 36, and I want her to live out her inner "edge" just in a controlled safe environment not jeopardizing our marriage like she almost did already. She has told me everything, and we remain deeply in love. We are even in MC now and not holding back any feelings, as I believe no matter what it is we're feeling not being honest is doing our family no good.
> 
> I'm seeking advice on how to stop her from believing this fantasy may become a reality because it's not the actual act that won't turn me on, but it's the aftermath I don't think she is fully considering like I am. We have two young children, and I can't imagine complicating their lives for a night of euphoria brought on by sex. Yes, the idea turns me on significantly, but her behavior the other night about being upset that I'm not in agreement with taking strides to make this happen has me thinking....
> 
> We love each other. There has been no other infidelity in our marriage, and I have forgiven her for the incident, however the fact that this happened only a month ago, and she is already wanting to get back to introducing another person into our bed is alarming, no matter how much the thought turns me on.


My wife and I had been married for a few years and our sex life had become stale. One day I walked in on her watching a mmf threesome porn. I never knew she even liked porn. She wasn't even embarrassed about me catching her. 
I asked if something like that turned her on and she said of course, it had always been a fantasy of hers. I admitted that thinking of her ****ing another guy was one of my fantasies too. We didn't talk much about it for a while. Then one day we where out shopping and I left to find something and when I got back this guy was hitting on her. She has always dressed very sexy and is very approachable. Today she was wearing very short shorts, no bra and a very tight top that showed off her nice tits very well. 
I just held back as this guy and her talked. He was hitting hard and she was putting on her flirting act. She sneaked a peak or two at me and smiled. I was close enough to hear him ask if she would like to go someplace and have a drink. This guy was very good looking. He was tall and in very good shape. He was also a few years younger than her.
She laughed and said she was married and I thought things where over but he reached into his pocket and pulled out a card and told her to call him sometime and left. We checked out and as soon as we got into the car I asked if I wasn't there would she have had a drink with him?
She just said maybe? Then I asked what she was thinking about when he was flirting with her. It only took her a second to think then said "I was thinking how big his **** was and how it would taste and feel" She just looked at me with this really ****ty look and smiled. I began to get aroused. She then asked what I was thinking. I was thinking what she would look like ****ing this guy. 
We made it home and put away the frozen stuff then hit the bedroom. We where both super horny and went at each other like we had not in a long time. Afterwards laying there I asked if she was still thinking of him? I knew she was so all she had to do was smile. I then told her to call him. It didn't take any convincing. She just reached over and picked up her phone and his number out of her purse and called. 
She can really flirt on the phone and in a few minutes I was aroused again. I dove between her legs and started licking. She put her hand over the phone and asked me "do you really want this to happen?" I was shaking but so hopelessly aroused I said yes.
He was there in half an hour. Just enough time for her to get a shower and clean up. I opened the door and he walked past me to her. She was only wearing a sexy little teddy and she looked hot! 
He just walked up to her and pulled her to him. They kissed and where on the couch in a few seconds. She pulled him out and sucked on him until he was hard then stood up and dropped what she was wearing. His **** was impressive and as he pulled the rest of his clothes off I began to get jealous. It just hit me that this guy was going to **** my wife and he was much better looking, in much better shape and hung. I looked at her but she I don't even think she knew I was in the room.
She sat down on it, I watched as that huge **** slipped deep into my wife. I heard her moan as it went in and in and in. Then she started riding it up and down. After a while the couch began to make strange noises and I feared it would break. She rode him but he was helping her, lifting her up and down with his muscular arms and then I heard her start her cumming. She usually is noisy but I never heard her let loose like that. I expected the dogs to start howling as she almost screamed. He let loose shortly afterward and she just went limp on top of him. 
They rested like that for a minute or two then she pulled up and off. Cum just came out and down the inside of her thighs. I could see it glisten on his still hard **** and between her legs as she sat next to him. I knew it was soaking the couch and I wondered how I would get it clean.
He got up and dressed, kissed her and said goodbye. She just sat there and looked at me.
I went to her and kissed her. I could taste his **** in her mouth and smell him on her. I took her hand and led her to bed. She seemed exhausted. I gave her a glass of wine and she laid back, her legs apart and still staring me in the eye. She said finish me again.
I knew what she meant. A lot of times after we make love she wants oral. I had become used to my own sperm but the thought of going there after him? I did, I buried my face between her legs and licked until she came again. There was a lot of juices, mixed from my wife and him but I didn't stop. I wanted so to put myself inside of her but I knew she was done so we just cuddled until we slept.
Now, we make love and I think of him and her. I know there is no way I could ever compete with him. I also know that on occasion she sees him. I know it is just for sex and I love her too much to deny that for her. We are still in love and share so much and I know she will not leave me for him.


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## RandyAllen

welder8899 said:


> UPDATE:
> We have had some pretty intense marriage counseling dates the last few weeks. Things seem to be settling down and getting back in line. I don't think about the incident every hour on a daily basis. I have convinced myself that she is telling me the truth and her actions over the last few weeks have acknowledged this. In the grand scheme of things a 17 year relationship 12 of which we're married can't be destroyed within a 25 minute window of what she has explained as being nothing like our fantasy was supposed to make her feel. Again, I have to believe her, and I do. I agree with many of the comments and disagree with some as well, primarily the one's that speculate the relationship is over because of this mistake.
> 
> We played with fire, burned??? I don't think so. Had my wife been having a steamy affair with the landscaping guy, well that's one thing, but a drunken sloppy incident that she suggests was a horrible disgusting experience is something completely different.
> 
> What I'm learning is that our relationship is still very strong, and had it not have been, there would be no reason for her to stay with me if she indeed is not in love with me. This would be her perfect opportunity to move on.
> 
> As for the MMF threesome, it's shelved at the moment. At some point in time I do believe it will happen, but as some pointed out, communication is very important, and although the motives were very well laid out from the beginning, the desires overcame rules.
> 
> I believe the last comments from lookingforhelpandhope described what happened in the best manner.
> 
> Marriage is about the ups and downs, the stupid mistakes and most importantly the forgiveness that is essential for moving forward.
> 
> I was suspended for "baiting" a member, not sure how accurate that was, but whatever. I appreciate the advice that's been shared.


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## aston

Once your intimacy is compromised you'll have a tough time walking it back!


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