# I NEED help and advice PLEASE



## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

Some background on me:
Recently divorced after a long period of on again, off again with my Ex. The catalyst for the split, was infidelity on his part. The past couple of years have been very difficult on me. Ex suffers with depression and our relationship was quite co-dependent, therefore it has been very hard to separate.

During the separation I met a man, whom I've been seeing on and off for about a year now- I'll refer to him as the BF.
The BF is divorced also and has shared custody with his Ex.

The problem is, over the past couple of months, the BF's ExW has been calling him and spending more and more time with him. She had been dating someone, but I believe they split up, and now it seems to me that there is continually some reason or excuse that she needs to see him, or she wants him to come look after the kids (on her nights) if she can't get a sitter- and he always goes, "because of the kids".
I don't mind him having family time, but this is getting out of hand and it's really starting to upset me.
I've mentioned that I'm upset and he becomes a little defensive about it, saying that I don't understand because I don't have kids. 

My question is: what is appropriate when it comes to this kind of situation?
I have the feeling that she wants to have him back in her life, that she is lonely, and is using the kids to spend time with her.
As I've said, I have mentioned my feelings to him, but he just gets defensive.
Am I being unreasonable?? What is appropriate here?


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## tiffgirl (Apr 18, 2010)

Have you met her yet? Perhaps if the two of you meet would you feel more comfortable with the situation? Does he answer his phone when he is with her? I think that it is important that he acknowledges your feelings and that the two of you can compromise on a way so that he can see his kids and you can feel comfortable.


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

I have not met her. He seems to want to keep his life clearly defined. I also know that I am edgy about this because of my past with my Ex cheating, so I am hyper sensitive to this.
I don't call when I know that he is with her. I have called a couple of times when he is with her and does answers sometimes, but it's a short, terse conversation.

I am all for him spending time with his kids, I know that they come first. What I don't like is the time he is spending with his Ex and that she really seems to be playing her hand to win him back. Or that is what I see.
The issue is, whenever I bring up my feelings about this, he brings up the kids, like how could I possibly understand?... kind of thing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree that she may be trying to get him back. If you're really close to him, I would tell him that I'd like to talk to her, so that you can ease all the tension.

If he 'refuses' to let you talk to another person, even if it's his ex, I'd reconsider the relationship.


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## del88 (Mar 24, 2010)

Just because she may want him back doesn't mean that that's what he's thinking. He is with you, so as long as he is up front with you and not sneaking around when she calls or anything, then I really try not to focus on it so much. If anything, just confront him and ask him if he has feelings for her. If he say's no, then you should trust him and try to leave it alone.


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks everyone.
I've tried to talk with him a few times, but he is acting defensive, which is a good indication to me that he is having some feelings for her.
I am having a very difficult time with this, and in some ways feel like I am being cheated on all over again.
I received some advice to gracefully back away and to let him explore his feelings. Although this is awful for me and the last thing I want to do, I don't see another option. 
I don't want to appear needy or desperate (as people seem to see it when a woman expresses emotions that the other person does not want to hear...  ).


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## PeasNCarrots (Apr 5, 2010)

You dont say how long he has been divorced other than that you have been seeing eachother for the last year.

I have to say that I was also once the XW that would ask favors of my XH, we had 2 kids together and had a traditional marriage, where he went to work and I stayed home and took care of the kids and home. 

When we divorced I found that I was still very dependent on him for various things, not that I had enough feelings left to get back together with him but, I was used to going to him to help me solve problems. Even a year or 2 after the divorce! Even now I know that if I need his help with something he will be there for me and we divorced 12 years ago!

He was a godsend at times and I'm sure I created issues between him & his then GF, now W. For that I feel bad because it was not my intention.

IMO, you probably just need to give him and his XW time to figure out just how much involvement they need to have for the kids sake. Once they discover those boundries im sure you will see a decline in the amount of time he spends with her. I know its hard, especially since your XH cheated on you but I would say stick it out for the time being. Try to be understanding and try to plan more activities for you and your BF that include his kids, maybe he will see that he doesnt have to spend time with his XW just to have time with the kids. Goood luck! :smile:


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

Thank you.
They have been divorced for a couple of years now. I have been separated for almost 3 years, but just recently got "around" to finalizing it.
My BF and his Ex have had an amicable split and joint custody. He is a very involved father (which is something that I admire about him).
In the year that he and I have known each other he has been there for his Ex and his kids whenever he is needed, and I am very supportive of that. 
However, recently, it's more than that. His Ex split up from her BF recently and since then, she is calling ALL of the time and making up reasons that she needs to see him.
It's gone from being a supportive friend, to being an emotional support, and that is why I am struggling with this so much.

I am supportive to give him space, but it is really hurting me and it's hard to not say something about it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why don't you show him this thread?


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

Not ready to show him this site, this is my place to vent freely!


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

To bow out gracefully is the best advice you can receive, in my opinion. He shouldn't get defensive. That is always a sign but even if it weren't, he is being inconsiderate of your feelings. That will never change because the previous family - both the children AND ex wife - will always take priority over you in his life and his heart. I frequent a step family forum, where the second wives have been repeating your complaint ever since the site began, and they never stop complaining about how his first always, without fail takes priority. They complain about how they try to talk to their husband about it, but he gets defensive or some come right out and say "too bad" in so many words. Your concern will never end and will be a constant source of frustration for you.

Other than that, no one here can tell you if he is cheating with his ex, or if he still has feelings for her, or anything of the sort. Just simply go about your way instead of waiting around to find out if you're being cheated on again. The whole situation is too much to endure for a number of reasons - that he gets defensive; that he chooses to compartmentalize his life and not let you in; that you wonder if he still has feelings for his ex or if he's cheating on you with her; that he has no boundaries where she is concerned - so I don't see there is any point sticking around. Decide for yourself what you will and will not tolerate in a relationship and you'll find yourself a lot less often wondering if a guy is cheating and a lot less often waiting around for the devastation.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Speaking as a guy who sounds a lot like the one in this situation, I'll let you "interview me by proxy", not that I can speak for your bf.

It seems like the "ex" comes first a lot of times because frankly, sometimes I worry that mine will have a nervous breakdown and then I'm the primary parent. . .you know? So there is a fear that you still kind of have to give her what she needs and demands.

Furthermore, don't understand estimate the female's uncanny power to manipulate a man, even an estranged ex-husband. Frankly, and this may sound cynical, and it's really not meant to be. . .just rather a fact of life but women somewhere around age 7 or 8 figure out they'll never be stronger than a male. . .so they figure out how to control them and develop that skill into an art. Yes, even without sex dangling over us, we can still be very much controlled.

You need to point it out as the gf and let him reflect on it and have an "Aha!" moment.

So, I tell my gf to have as much respect for her as you would at least have respect for a babysitter.

Anyway, I don't disagree with the forum - many women, with good reason, avoid dating guys with kids and this is a primary reason.

Just give him space.

I just told my gf than any semblance of a normal relationship would be out becuase of the *****y ex and the 3 kids. And she understood. . .didn't like it. . .but she understood. I am doing my best to not lead anyone on that I get involved with.


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

Thank you I REALLY appreciate this advice and feedback.
Scannerguard, thank you. This does sound like my situation.

He has been avoiding seeing me. 
I've been giving him space, to sort this out (whatever it is) but it's reached the point now that I think that I need to call it off. When I've tried to bring it up however, he keeps saying that "he's busy". 
So, I can't seem to be able to create the time to have the conversation with him!?

I have read many threads here and I can clearly see the theme. The Ex wives call the shots and the Ex husbands are at their mercy.
I do not see it working the other way. The ex husbands seem to have little say or control when it comes to their ex wives (unless it boils down to something financial, and then the husbands HAVE to cater anyway, especially if there are children involved). I have been frustrated by my Ex many, many times- however I don't feel like he could ever really control me, especially after the separation and divorce. As soon as he saw that I could/would and DID leave, he was totally at MY mercy. It's a bad deal for you men!

I can speak in my situation, as a woman, I am sorry to admit, I want to know that my Ex would still want me. I'll still drop hints to see if he responds, to see if I could still get him if I wanted him... It's a woman thing I think (also, an uneasy confession!).

Scannerguard, does this mean that you are just keeping your relationships casual in case your ex wants to reconcile? Or because you believe that your ex will always interfere and you have to be available just in case (because of her instability)?
It sounds like a very difficult situation for you...
Another question, do you respect your GF less because she is willing to tolerate this?
(I ask this because I received advice from another member who was in a similar situation, only he is the Ex and he broke up with a gf to reconcile with his wife. He said he lost respect for the gf because she was wiling to tolerate his unavailability. But, from what I am hearing, in order to date a man who has children, a woman must resign herself to being ok with this?... I am finding it all very confusing!)


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

An update- am still "seeing" the BF, but things have cooled considerably.

The Ex-W is still lurking, which is irritating to me and I am trying to get myself to the place where I can make a decision- which is difficult as I really have feelings for this man.

However, something that I've noticed is that this situation has lowered his value to me: when I see how he caves in when it comes to his ex, it makes me lose respect for him. It's like he becomes this trained puppy when he talks to her, not in a doting way, but in that he just loses his edge and he caters to her. It's given me some insight into him that I don't like to see. I see it as a weakness.
I think that when he and I are together, he gets to be his own man, he is more confident and that is something that I find attractive.
I think that all of the things I have seen on here about how men behave like the "nice guy" drives women away is correct. It's just not that its about being nice, it's about caving in and being broken by unappreciative women- and then still trying to please these women! It's not a pretty sight.
I don't know if I should say anything to him about what I'm seeing? If I do say something, I don't want to destroy his ego... 
Any suggestions?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell him the truth. Who knows? Maybe this could lead to him getting some therapy.


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

I want to tell him the truth, but I also don't want to wound him. I am sure he has no idea how he behaves when it comes to her, and I don't want to come across as jealous or spiteful (don't get me wrong, this woman is nowhere near my good books).
I am just amazed and appalled at how passive he is with her.

She is quite temperamental, and I believe that he pacifies her to keep the peace/keep her happy so he can have free and easy access to the kids. 
I also think though that if I call it off with him, he'd be back with her within the week...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Telling him the truth is not the same as breaking it off with him.

If you can't tell your partner the truth, what kind of relationship DO you have?

Plus, if YOU did something wrong, would you want him to keep silent for 30 years, or would you want to know the truth so you could decide if you want to change?


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

I am all for the truth, but this is a fragile topic and a fragile situation.
I am just the girlfriend, she was his wife...
No matter how I try to justify it, the dynamic is a difficult one.

I am just trying to figure out how to handle this in a way that will work...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just be honest. "I know this is a touchy subject for you, and I'm in no way telling you what to do. I'm just relaying how I feel. When XYZ happens, I feel ABC. I need you to know that."


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> It's just not that its about being nice, it's about caving in and being broken by unappreciative women- and then still trying to please these women! It's not a pretty sight.


Thanks for saying this. I wish people would quit talking about how bad it is to be a "nice guy," b/c nice is fine--WEAK is what is unattractive. Nice and weak are NOT the same thing!! 

Good for you for recognizing this. Have you told the BF what you observe and how you react?


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

Thank you Sisters and Turnera.

Nice and weak are not at all the same thing! I love _nice_ guys! I just do not like seeing this caved in man who will put aside his needs for this woman!

As for me, I have leaned on the passive side in my life and I am really working on being more assertive. In my marriage, my ex-h was emotionally volatile/ depressive and if I said "the wrong thing" it would set him off, and I am trying to/working on getting over that way of thinking.
To be honest I am working up the courage to be able to say what I need to say plainly- as I tend to become emotional when faced with a confrontation (even a healthy one).
And yes, I AM in therapy...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read The Dance of Anger? It's a little book, quick read, but VERY powerful. It's about learning how to stand up for yourself (the anger is what you aim at yourself for being passive and a Giver). You can get it at most libraries.


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

I have heard of that book! I will read it, thank you.


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

I am realizing that I'm in a pattern of having a conflict and being too chicken to deal with it head on.
I am afraid that if I deal with this in the wrong way, I'll push him back to his wife and I know that in the long run, everyone would be miserable.
I think that I feel like I don't have much of a "right" to say something, as I'm just the girlfriend...
The advice that I keep getting, is to plainly state the truth and then back off- while I appreciate this as being sound and logical advice, it is hard to DO- as I know it would hurt his feelings and it could damage our chances.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

But if he chooses to leave you simply because you express displeasure at something, how on earth do you think you can maintain a relationship long term? Basically, it would involve you becoming silent and invisible, just to keep him around.

Is that love? Is that marriage (if you get that far)?

btw, conflict avoidance is something you learn in childhood. A good therapist can help you uncover where that came from, so you can eliminate it. My earliest memory is my mother making me sit at the table because I wouldn't eat, til 10 or 11 at night, while everyone went out and played ball in the yard - I was taught to be silent, never talk back, and never WANT anything. It now permeates everything I do.


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks Turnera, 
your points are very valid and something that I'm working thru and on.
I vent a lot more here than I do in "real life".

Again, I am learning to navigate the new boundaries of being a "girlfriend" with a new person, after a long marriage...
It is very confusing at times!


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## TryingToLearn (May 16, 2010)

Ok - I'm new to this. Depending on how this first posting reads, I may continue because talking with others in the same situation is helpful. I came across this site while searching for ways to help cope with the loneliness of separation – so you have an idea of my situation.
I'd like to reconcile with my wife, but I've got to make some changes in me. I suffered from depression for a long time and was not aggressive at getting it under control (embarrassed, not a fan of counseling, many medicines that didn’t seem to help). Ultimately, my depression led to other problems.
I’m alone and want to reconcile. I’m doing a lot of reading along with counseling. I’ve found a number of books to be helpful in for dealing with my situation (surviving it) and improving my interactions with my wife. Much of the advice relates to understanding actions that drive your spouse away – it seems like they are valid for other types of relationships. Many ideas are the opposite from my natural reactions and, unfortunately, the behavior I exhibited for most of the time since my separation. When I try some of the ideas, they really do seem to work. Not at manipulating my spouse to come back, but to stop driving her away. 
In case it is helpful, my advice here is for you to try to not to pressure your BF - meaning don’t object to time spent with his Ex and kids. Show that you are OK with what he decides to do in this situation (or at least appear to be OK until you really are). His Ex may be pressuring him regarding his time spent with you. Pressure drives a person away. When I’m able to show my spouse that I’m coming to grips that we may not ever get back together rather than reasoning, pleading, or begging for reconciliation, our interactions are better. I’m a more attractive person to her when I’m not pressuring her. Well, that’s my two cents – just took me a long time to write it. Give it a try and see if it works.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Peacefully, conflict avoidance is a serious relationship inhibitor. If you cannot be yourself with someone--stating a point of view or need, respectfully, but knowing it may create conflict--then you can never really be yourself, and you are never going to be secure in the relationship b/c you will know it isn't based on the "real" you and you will always fear that the other person will not want the "real" you. But if they don't want you as you are, then you are not meant for each other. Painful to find out if you are afraid to be alone; otherwise, it's just a sad but necessary parting of ways, returning the relationship to friendship if possible, breaking ties if not. 

You are who you are, and you may find someone who values you--confident people are very attractive. But being alone isn't so bad! It's a heck of a lot better than constantly being afraid to be yourself! 

One other thing: if this guy is really so passive with his wife that it turns you off, he needs to hear it. It does not sound needy to say that you find that side of him unattractive--just the opposite. And once it is out there, you may find it is less of an issue for you, acknowledging that he isn't perfect (duh!) and learning to accept it. Better to know his weaknesses and decide if you can still have a good relationship than to try to deny them or pretend they are a non-issue. They may become a non-issue as he changes or as you do, if you decide you can accept him with this particular wart. 

Good luck.


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