# Custody & Ex Girlfriend - I'm the new girlfriend



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Hi everyone. I will try to make this post short and sweet. I am just looking for some outside advice...

I am 29 and dating a 30 year old, who has a 6 year old daughter with his ex girlfriend who is 28. They were together for 8 or so years, and he always says that if it wasn't for their daughter, they wouldn't have been together for the last 6. 

I can go into further details regarding their past, if need be, but for now, let me just explain what is happening currently.

He has a farm, and for the last 2 years, the 3 of them lived there. He then took his ex on a trip in January, and as soon as they got back she started to move out without explanation. She would sneakily take things out of the house and then she just up and left. In my eyes, I don't really care what happened or what was going on, just that they broke up. Alright, so up to now they have never had any type of agreement as to who the primary parent is, or anything like that. So, he filed paperwork to get full physical custody as she always threatened him that she would take their daughter away. She doesn't have a real job but makes about $500 a month with online sales. She lives with a family member and does not have a place of her own. He does not want to keep his daughter from her mom but just guarantee that he will have time with her.

He and I started just talking back in April and he would explain to me his situation and I was pretty much just a shoulder to talk lean on. It eventually turned into us having feelings for each other, and we began dating. (he was not with his ex). His daughter absolutely adores me, and I adore her. About 2-3 months ago, we had set up a time to meet up with his daughters mom, but the day it came, she refused. So, they then got a court date so he could try to get to see his daughter more until mediation and custody was figured out. during that hearing he mentioned he would be fine with 50/50 and he just wants to be fair since she is a good mom. The day after this, she told him she would only CONSIDER 50/50 at mediation, if I was no longer around. Now, I can see this if I was a bad person, or the child didn't like me, but if that was the case, my boyfriend wouldn't even have me around anyway. 

So, mediation is about 2 weeks away, and at this point I don't go to his place because he is trying to keep the peace until then. What I am worried about is that at mediation she is going to say that the only way she will agree to 50/50 is if it is in paperwork that I won't be around. I just want to know if this can even be possible. I know that if they don't agree on anything in mediation and had to go to court he would at least get 50/50 as he is a stable dad with a job and a home. 

Any advice out there? It is so hard being with someone who has an ex who is only thinking of herself and how she can hurt him. I'm strong but sometimes I just need to vent.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I'm not a big fan of mediation in situations like this. To me, its often a double-dip on legal fees because you're going in with an unreasonable litigant that doesn't understand the law and doesn't respect the other person's parental rights.

Mediation is done on consent so she can demand whatever she pleases. The mediator will try to encourage her to be reasonable and settle and explain to her that her demands will be considered vexatious and petty in front a real judge but that doesn't mean she'll do anything differently.

I went through a lengthy, contentious custody dispute during which my ex-husband had his lawyer send me multiple letters instructing me that I wasn't allowed to introduce men to my child. (There were no "men"...I was seriously dating one person who I'm now married to). I simply ignored him and anything else that was none of his business. I never bothered to respond to any of those letters and the custody evaluators and judges we had wouldn't even listen to the nonsense.

My advice, ignore her and do not change anything you're doing or she'll never stop making ridiculous demands and delving into your personal business and your relationship. You're allowed to have a relationship, its absolutely and completely NONE of her business and kowtowing to crazy is a bad start for both of you.

If she doesn't comply in mediation, tell your bf to take her silly ass to court so that she can understand that she doesn't own the child and has zero right to delve into you and your partner's personal life.

Ignore her and live your lives. He needs to start distancing himself and sticking to communicating to her only by verifiable means (email) and only about parenting only. He really needs to start ignoring any other communication and not changing his lifestyle based on stupid nonsense she demands.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

I agree 100% but he is so afraid that if he is "mean" (and by mean I mean, not doing exactly what she wants) that she is going to bad mouth him to their daughter. I told him that she probably will do that no matter what but it will just come back to bite her in the a$$. 

His #1 concern is their daughter, as it should be. He really does not want to go to court past mediation. They will also both have their lawyers in their during mediation. The trouble that I feel may happen is that he is going to ask me to wait. I really care about him and I know he cares about me, otherwise he wouldn't have me involved with his daughters life. 

The other part of it is that his parents are still married and so are his grandparents, and so they don't necessarily understand this situation. My parents are divorced and my sister shares custody with her daughters dad so I understand it. I just try to tell him that I am telling him this not to benefit myself but to do what's best for his daughter. 

His ex is SO good at making him feel bad and talks badly of him in front of their daughter and talks about custody stuff in front of her. She initiates conversations about their past relationship and he doesn't respond. He and I get along so well and we don't argue about anything except have disagreements on this whole situation. 

I am trying to be positive and just be there but also prepare myself, ya know?


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

He may not be ready for a relationship with you if he's still this emotionally battered by his ex. If you want to start a new relationship, you have to have a healthy distance and perspective from your previous relationship and it doesn't sound like he's there.

Look, neither one of you can control what she does and the more you try, the more power you give her to manipulate your life using the child. You can both only control you. You have to rise above what she's doing and work to your own code of conduct. You have to avoid stooping to her level or reacting to her nonsense.

He may not want to go beyond mediation but you have to play the cards that you're dealt and if he takes her crap, he's setting a very dangerous future precedence.

I can tell you that he needs to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. That's the nature of divorce and custody issues. He cannot guess what she's going to do...he can only decide what he's going to do. The more he tries to guess how she's going to react, the more precarious a place he puts himself in in everything he does going forward.

If she bad mouths him to the child, there's nothing you can do about that. You can only use your parenting time in a more positive manner so eventually the child comes to recognize the bitter, angry, hate-filled parent and the decent one. (and BELIEVE ME, they do notice pretty quickly). People that use their children to assuage their bitterness or to control situations will have that stuff blow up in their face in a major way. You have to have faith in that.

And for you, you have to accept that you've started a relationship with a guy who might not be completely free of his old one. For your own self-preservation, you may want to give him the advice you have to offer and then take a couple steps back to let him deal with this on his own terms.

When dealing with this stuff...sometimes getting into another relationship needs to be taken in very gradual stages.


----------



## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

Let this play out in court. She is trying to assert control by intimidating your BF into agreeing to something less than what the Court is likely to allow. Unless you are a threat to the child she has no right to say you can't be around. At best, the court may agree to you not spending the night but the same rule would also apply to her. They are BOTH parents & she isn't the only one who gets to decide how their child is raised. If he lets her intimidate him now it will only continue. Sometimes it's best to let the authorities (Court) spell out what she can/can't control. Not sure where you live but here in California the Courts prefer joint custody whenever possible as it's in the best interests of the child to have 2 parents actively involved in the child's life.

I speak from experience with both sides. I have been watching my hubby suffer from fear & intimidation by his son's mother for years simply because he won't take her back to Court to enforce his rights. On the other hand, when my ex recently took me to Court for joint custody (we already had an informal agreement but I still had formal physical custody) even though I wasn't going to fight the shared custody I went to Court anyway just to have the Judge tell him he needed to pay half of our son's extracurricular activities. No matter how many times I explained to him that when I had sole custody I was solely responsible but shared custody meant shared expenses too, he fought me. Not anymore, now that the Judge told him.  And even though my ex has mental health issues we have a pretty good working relationship when it comes to our sons with few issues. My hubby on the other hand...although he has joint legal custody the only time she's ever acknowledged his rights was when she needed a passport for their son. 

So unless he has a real reason to believe he may lose custody he should not bow to her unreasonable demands for it will only set the precedent for the future. JMHO...


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Yeah I knew what I was getting myself into. I'm not blaming anyone else but myself for possibly having this happen. I'm just trying to learn how to deal with it best. 

She tore him down for so long that the moment she starts talking to him about stuff, he just instantly is a different person. His family even says the same thing. They say that they can see how much happier he is with me, but they know the moment he has talked to her. 

I came from a marriage where my EH didn't ever express his feelings until it was too late. Like if something was bothering him, he wouldn't tell me until weeks later. My BF doesn't necessarily do the same thing, but he isn't that open either. I'm someone who wants to deal with things as they happen, not let them linger. So it's like a balancing act and learning how to mesh with that type of mentality on discussing things.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Mediation is cheaper than going to court, and you get what you pay for.

In court, these type of paramour clauses are highly disfavored. You can always by agreement put one in, but courts have to have a reason to keep an adult out of the home, and a pissy ex-gf isn't enough. Your BF needs some advice from an attorney-even a one hour consultation might help him in mediation.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Ok so this is off this topic, but I need to ask someone...

I know we all have our love languages and how we need to be loved. Well, I am someone who needs physical touch, or words of affirmation. He is into physical touch (kissing my hand, holding my hand, etc.) but not as into the words of affirmation. How do I, what's the word, adjust?


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Could I suggest you run a search for Love Languages in the TAM database. This is soooo out of my bailiwick


----------



## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

No such stipulation can be added to the order by a court. It can however be agreed to in mediation. You can agree to anything you'd like to in a private contract as long as it's mutually agreeable. If it was pushed to trial though, the judge couldn't order it without a restraining order based on cause. So unless there's cause... It's her attempting to gain, regain or initiate control of the situation. Your boyfriend is in a sticky situation though. He could tell her to pound sand. He should ask his lawyer his odds at 50/50 since they were never married because each case and jurisdiction are different. Is he on the birth certificate? Has paternity been legally established?

Personally? I'd call her bluff and tell her to pound sand, 'see ya in court'.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You don't adjust.
You find a situation that works for you.
Do you want to contribute to a disfunctional life that two adults are giving a 6 year old? Your man is 50% responsible for not creating a decent family for his child.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ihatethis said:


> Ok so this is off this topic, but I need to ask someone...
> 
> I know we all have our love languages and how we need to be loved. Well, I am someone who needs physical touch, or words of affirmation. He is into physical touch (kissing my hand, holding my hand, etc.) but not as into the words of affirmation. How do I, what's the word, adjust?


Have you talked to him about this?

You might want to find out why his last relationship ended. It might be something that you find creeps up in your relationship.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hicks said:


> You don't adjust.
> You find a situation that works for you.
> Do you want to contribute to a disfunctional life that two adults are giving a 6 year old? Your man is 50% responsible for not creating a decent family for his child.


Quoted for truth.

The purpose of dating is to find someone who is a good fit for you who you also love.

This guy is still way to involved with his ex. That relationship is not over. They may or may not ever get back together, but they are still in a huge fight. And now you are in the middle of it.

Most people who do not give "words of affirmation" cannot fake it. That's part of who they are. What you have with him right now is the very best it will ever be... just think about that. 

Do not ever force a relationship. By that I mean do not try to change yourself to keep a guy. 

.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Hicks said:


> You don't adjust.
> You find a situation that works for you.
> Do you want to contribute to a disfunctional life that two adults are giving a 6 year old? Your man is 50% responsible for not creating a decent family for his child.


Actually, that's not entirely true. He provided a home for them, has always been the one who worked so she didn't have to, always went to her family functions (she would never go to his - and his family is awesome), she cheated on him when she was 8 months pregnant with their daughter, etc. I know there are two sides to every story, but I have heard many things from other people, outside of his family about what his ex is really like.

He is such a great dad to his daughter, and if I though for a moment that he was dysfunctional in that sense, I wouldn't even be around.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

As a divorced mom of a daughter, it is VERY VERY hard to imagine your daughter bonding with another woman. It can be excruciating. As the new woman, your best bet may be to reach out to this woman via email and tell her you know your place. Tell her you you'll always make sure her daughter is taken care of when at your home, but you have no desire to replace her. I would not even tell her that you love this little girl. Even that can be hard to hear. This is still all very new for this woman, having to share her daughter. It's not fun.

With that said, this may end up not being solvable in mediation as others have said. Hopefully once she's told, in mediation, that a judge would grant 50/50 she'll agree to spare the drama of court, etc.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Has his ex tried to get back with him after she left?


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Has his ex tried to get back with him after she left?


She didn't until she found out about me, and even then it wasn't right away. She started to try when things got more involved with lawyers and such. All she would say is "let me move back and lets just drop things with the lawyer".


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I would totally stay out of this. His ex is not simply going to accept you in her child's life, and there isn't anything you can do or say to make things work out better during the mediation. At some point in the future, she may come to accept your presence, but she's not in a mental place to do that right now so don't expect her to.

Instead, observe how your bf is treating _you_. Are you ok with your place in HIS life? No? Then you talk to him about that. But until child custody is settled, don't expect to play happy families with his child. It's unrealistic. 

Also observe how far he is willing to bend over for his ex. Is he treating her better than he treats you? Do you feel that he has unresolved issues with her? Do you feel that your relationship has to suffer so he can appease her? If that's what you see, consider whether that's the kind of relationship you want in your life. 

I think dating people who are in the middle of divorces or who recently split from their partners is really hard and tricky. Is it a rebound? Are they using you as a crutch during their legal battles (even unintentionally)? Are they leaning on you until they're free, and then will drop you for someone who doesn't remind them of their "dark days" when they were dealing with the fallout of the split? 

Take care of you. Be clear about what kind of behavior on your bf's part is and isn't ok with you.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I had the same problem in my first marriage. My ex wife used my daughter as a weapon and I made the mistake by letting her. You know who got short changed in the process? My kid did because she was caught in the middle of all the on upsmenship and it took it's toll.

If anything your boyfriend should just find a lawyer and let him slug it out with her and her lawyer. That's why they get the big bucks but I hope he can keep his cool and be the bigger parent and keep his daughter away from all the fire works. Kid look like their doing their own thing while all this crap plays out but they here everything so there comes a time when you have to bite your tongue and hope for the best.

If it so happens that he doesn't get a 50/50 then what I learned is there's a big difference between quantity and quality time so if need be go with quality and it will pay off.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

norajane said:


> I would totally stay out of this. His ex is not simply going to accept you in her child's life, and there isn't anything you can do or say to make things work out better during the mediation. At some point in the future, she may come to accept your presence, but she's not in a mental place to do that right now so don't expect her to.
> 
> Instead, observe how your bf is treating _you_. Are you ok with your place in HIS life? No? Then you talk to him about that. But until child custody is settled, don't expect to play happy families with his child. It's unrealistic.
> 
> ...


At this point, I'm not trying to play happy family. I am just trying to be there for him through this, as I know it's not easy on him because all he wants is more time with his daughter. Trust me, I cannot wait for the 29th, no matter what happens as it will take this out of limbo, if that makes sense.

No, he isn't treating her better, he just isn't being as harsh as he could be. Only because he wants this as civil as possible, for his daughters sake - because he knows his ex talks about these things in front of their daughter. I know there is nothing that he or I can do about that, and I've accepted that. Like I said, I'm just trying to be a support system for him.

Trust me, I never wanted to walk into the middle of this either. But it just kind of happened. It started off as a friendship and venting and then as soon as we hung out, it was like we just clicked. I went through a hard divorce and we just kind of both have been through a lot and know what we DO NOT want.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

6301 said:


> I had the same problem in my first marriage. My ex wife used my daughter as a weapon and I made the mistake by letting her. You know who got short changed in the process? My kid did because she was caught in the middle of all the on upsmenship and it took it's toll.
> 
> If anything your boyfriend should just find a lawyer and let him slug it out with her and her lawyer. That's why they get the big bucks but I hope he can keep his cool and be the bigger parent and keep his daughter away from all the fire works. Kid look like their doing their own thing while all this crap plays out but they here everything so there comes a time when you have to bite your tongue and hope for the best.
> 
> If it so happens that he doesn't get a 50/50 then what I learned is there's a big difference between quantity and quality time so if need be go with quality and it will pay off.


Right, I agree with you. I come from divorced parents and he does not. He is such a good dad to her in that he NEVER discusses the situation unless he asks. When she does ask it is "why can't you and mom just get along" and he just tells her that sometimes mommy and daddy's are better as friends but they both love her. And that's the extent of it. He just always reassures her he loves her. And she is always so sad to leave when she leaves us. When he goes to pick her up the first thing she asks is if I am at the house. 

Anyway, I totally agree with you.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> As a divorced mom of a daughter, it is VERY VERY hard to imagine your daughter bonding with another woman. It can be excruciating. As the new woman, your best bet may be to reach out to this woman via email and tell her you know your place. Tell her you you'll always make sure her daughter is taken care of when at your home, but you have no desire to replace her. I would not even tell her that you love this little girl. Even that can be hard to hear. This is still all very new for this woman, having to share her daughter. It's not fun.
> 
> With that said, this may end up not being solvable in mediation as others have said. Hopefully once she's told, in mediation, that a judge would grant 50/50 she'll agree to spare the drama of court, etc.


I just want to say that I COMPLETELY understand where she is coming from. I would love to be able to talk to her to just tell her those things that I am here just to be a friend to their daughter and care about her. But she won't give me that chance. And then she complains about not knowing who I am, but yet she refuses to meet me. 

Like I've stated, I understand where she is coming from in the sense of a new woman around her daughter, but she also needs to think of her daughter and not put her in the middle of disagreements between her and the father.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> I just want to say that I COMPLETELY understand where she is coming from. I would love to be able to talk to her to just tell her those things that I am here just to be a friend to their daughter and care about her. But she won't give me that chance. And then she complains about not knowing who I am, but yet she refuses to meet me.
> 
> Like I've stated, I understand where she is coming from in the sense of a new woman around her daughter, but she also needs to think of her daughter and not put her in the middle of disagreements between her and the father.


She sounds emotionally immature, as I'm sure you already know! If she doesn't stop it, her daughter will start preferring her dad and you to her.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> She sounds emotionally immature, as I'm sure you already know! If she doesn't stop it, her daughter will start preferring her dad and you to her.


I thinks he is already there because she always wants to be together. She has even said she wants me to meet her mommy and that I need to get to know her. My boyfriend told her that her mom wasn't ready to meet me yet, and it will happen in time.

Honestly, I just want her to have a great relationship with her mom and dad and have a great home in both places. I just wish her mom had the same mentality.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Look into parallel parenting as an alternative to co-parenting. Also, consider going no contact with the ex, and any demands she makes that you two don't like, only comply if she gets a court order.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

I guess right now it's just a big waiting game until mediation because at this point we don't know anything until then.

My view on it is that I hope he fights her in mediation to not let her control his life. If he chooses not to do so, then I don't want to be with someone like that any way. It is just so hard because I love him and his daughter. We have had such a good time together, and it just pisses me off that his ex has it in her (or any human to be like this) just to hurt him because he is happy when she is the one that betrayed and walked out on them. It's the mentality of "If I can't have him, no one can."


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

ihatethis said:


> I guess right now it's just a big waiting game until mediation because at this point we don't know anything until then.
> 
> My view on it is that I hope he fights her in mediation to not let her control his life. If he chooses not to do so, then I don't want to be with someone like that any way. It is just so hard because I love him and his daughter. We have had such a good time together, and it just pisses me off that his ex has it in her (or any human to be like this) just to hurt him because he is happy when she is the one that betrayed and walked out on them. It's the mentality of "If I can't have him, no one can."


That's why I suggested staying out of this and just observing him right now. You're getting too close to his daughter already - it could be hard on her to lose you, too, if the relationship doesn't work out.

And you need to observe what he does and how he is with his ex because this will impact your relationship forever. Don't sign up for a lifetime of it before you know what you're signing up for. You can't change it or fix it; you can only accept it, and it might not feel acceptable to you.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ihatethis said:


> I guess right now it's just a big waiting game until mediation because at this point we don't know anything until then.
> 
> My view on it is that I hope he fights her in mediation to not let her control his life. If he chooses not to do so, then I don't want to be with someone like that any way. It is just so hard because I love him and his daughter. We have had such a good time together, and it just pisses me off that his ex has it in her (or any human to be like this) just to hurt him because he is happy when she is the one that betrayed and walked out on them. It's the mentality of "If I can't have him, no one can."


His ex sounds like a high conflict person. My ex is high conflict as well. I suspect that the only real thing he can do in mediation to fight her is to get really good at saying no, and not feeling bad about it. He has zero obligation to give any consideration to what his ex wife wants or demands, and he needs to stop letting his ex use his child to manipulate and control him.

He also needs to understand that the mediation is not about his daughter and what's best for her. It's about his ex wife trying to exert control she should no longer have. He also needs to not be afraid to let things go to court, in front of a judge.

I got to the point a while ago with my ex that I did go no contact except when I wanted to discuss something, completely on my terms. I stopped playing her emotional chess game, and if she felt strongly enough about something, she was free to take it to court, and get a judge to order me. She has tried, and been entirely unsuccessful.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> As a divorced mom of a daughter, it is VERY VERY hard to imagine your daughter bonding with another woman. It can be excruciating. As the new woman, your best bet may be to reach out to this woman via email and tell her you know your place. Tell her you you'll always make sure her daughter is taken care of when at your home, but you have no desire to replace her. I would not even tell her that you love this little girl. Even that can be hard to hear. This is still all very new for this woman, having to share her daughter. It's not fun.


I actually disagree with this completely. You do not defer to this woman's nonsense. You absolutely should not contact her.

Not all women are like this. I'm a divorced woman with a daughter and have zero issue with my ex-husband having other women around my daughter. I'm her mother and a very good one and I'm completely confident in that. I don't feel like I'm competing with another woman in my ex's life...instead my only hope is that he has decent, good people around my daughter. And the couple of girlfriends he's had, my daughter has indicated are very nice and kind to her and have good values. That's all I care about. I think its wonderful that my kid has more good people around her who care about her. I'm very secure in my place in my childrens' lives.

Your relationship is absolutely none of this woman's business. The only person you have to convince that you're a good influence to is your bf. If she's being a high-conflict nutbag...all the more reason to stay away from her. Once you go down the path of catering to a bitter, hate-filled ex...you set yourself up for a long-term, conflict-driven problematic relationship.

Ignore her and give him some time to do the same.

Personally, if she's this idiotic and immature, its unlikely mediation is going to work so instead of worrying about being his gf, worry about being his friend. When you're going through custody disputes, you need all the support you can get.

He'll remember and appreciate it later.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I actually disagree with this completely. You do not defer to this woman's nonsense. You absolutely should not contact her.
> 
> Not all women are like this. I'm a divorced woman with a daughter and have zero issue with my ex-husband having other women around my daughter. I'm her mother and a very good one and I'm completely confident in that. I don't feel like I'm competing with another woman in my ex's life...instead my only hope is that he has decent, good people around my daughter. And the couple of girlfriends he's had, my daughter has indicated are very nice and kind to her and have good values. That's all I care about. I think its wonderful that my kid has more good people around her who care about her. I'm very secure in my place in my childrens' lives.
> 
> ...


I would be the same type of parent as you. I would want happy and good role model type of people around my children. 

People keep telling me that he will remember it one day, and I hope that is true.

But you are right, just be there for him. It's what I'm i'm trying to do best.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

I just want it to be clear that at the time we started talking, we both kind of had the mentality of "I am not looking" for something. This just happened, if that makes sense. I would NOT go out looking for getting in the middle of something like this, and neither would he.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I thinks he is already there because she always wants to be together. She has even said she wants me to meet her mommy and that I need to get to know her. My boyfriend told her that her mom wasn't ready to meet me yet, and it will happen in time.
> 
> Honestly, I just want her to have a great relationship with her mom and dad and have a great home in both places. I just wish her mom had the same mentality.


I think this is noble but unrealistic.

Your relationship is with your new bf and his child. It really has nothing to do with her. This father gets to decide who's appropriate to have around his daughter and you should be doing everything to assure him that you are a good person and a good influence on his child. The child's mother's opinion is irrelevant and she's unlikely to ever approve of you because she's insecure and irrational.

That being said, you need to recognize that this guy is about to start a custody dispute over the most important person in his life....his child. And custody disputes are expensive, conflict-ridden, emotionally-draining and very difficult. Its just not the best time for him to be concentrating on anything but getting through it.

I think you may need to go really slow or even take a step back. Be supportive but stop pushing a relationship with him right now. He's going to need some time to deal with this and rid his ex from his life. Those habits take some time.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I just want it to be clear that at the time we started talking, we both kind of had the mentality of "I am not looking" for something. This just happened, if that makes sense. I would NOT go out looking for getting in the middle of something like this, and neither would he.


I get it, unfortunately it just may be bad timing. It doesn't mean it can't happen...just that it might not be at the pace that you want.

Its normal to deal with a lot of fear and worry during custody disputes and he's going to have to learn to ignore his ex's noise and disruption but it will take time.




> I would be the same type of parent as you. I would want happy and good role model type of people around my children.


Truthfully, I know very little about my ex. His personal life is none of my business. The only reason I even know that he's had gfs is because my daughter might mention somewhere she's been with him and whoever he's with. She feels comfortable telling me things because she knows that I'm not intrusive and don't have any ill-will towards my ex. My only comment has ever been "is she nice to you?" or "is she a good person?" Both times its come up, she's emphatically said "yes" and that's all I care about. Other than that, its not my business.

Her dad has every right to decide who he thinks its appropriate to have around our child on his parenting time...just like I do...and he has every right to pursue happiness in his love life.

Its not you who doesn't know your place...its his ex. She has zero right to insinuate herself into the personal business of a man she's no longer with. She doesn't own the child. He's the child's father and has to determine the fitness of those he has in his life.

Unfortunately, despite all of that...there's a lot of very bitter, insecure ex's who have a really hard time not delving into the details of their ex's lives. Its bizarre but it happens a lot and you have to really ask yourself if you want a relationship with a guy who has someone in his life like this. It might not be the peaceful existence you're hoping for. You might want to take some time to think about it more.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I think this is noble but unrealistic.
> 
> Your relationship is with your new bf and his child. It really has nothing to do with her. This father gets to decide who's appropriate to have around his daughter and you should be doing everything to assure him that you are a good person and a good influence on his child. The child's mother's opinion is irrelevant and she's unlikely to ever approve of you because she's insecure and irrational.
> 
> ...


How do I take a step back?


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> How do I take a step back?


Simply keep some distance. Be his friend rather than his gf for the time being...keep the romantic stuff off the table for now and don't have expectations of a romantic relationship.

Be there for support so that he can vent and you can help him work through issues but don't get involved in any nonsense with his ex. 

It would also be good that if you are around his daughter, you just take it slow and indicate your her dad's friend...nothing more than that for the time being.

I honestly just don't think its fair to you to have half a guy and that's all he can really be to you right now. I'd wait it out until he can really give you more of his undivided attention. Its just going to be impossible for him to do that right now when he's dealing with this conflict and court.

There's going to come a time eventually when he's ready to really give you the emotion and time that you need to form a long-term healthy relationship...until then, be his friend...be his rock.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Simply keep some distance. Be his friend rather than his gf for the time being...keep the romantic stuff off the table for now and don't have expectations of a romantic relationship.
> 
> Be there for support so that he can vent and you can help him work through issues but don't get involved in any nonsense with his ex.
> 
> ...


I'm already not around his daughter, for the time being, due to the ex's request until mediation. That is next week, so we will see what happens...

This is great advice though. All I can do is be there for him, and let him take the reigns on how he wants to handle things. If I feel like it's not going to benefit me in any way, I will need to step back.

It's just hard because A. I do not like quitting on things & B. I have a hard time letting people in because of what my XH did. 

Anyway, I know those are not reasons to stay, but I really really care about him... but, like you said, all I can do right now is be there for him with no added pressure.


----------



## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

EnigmaGirl has given you excellent advice & I can second it from my experience. It is frustrating to see how insecure & selfish some mothers can be even if it harms their own child. I have never been that way & it really riled me up when my stepson's mom would manipulate both my hubby & my stepson. Now, I have had to take a step back & stay out of it for my own sanity & the sake of my marriage. I know it sounds harsh, but the reality is that my hubby venting his frustrations to me while being unwilling to change the way he handled things was causing problems in our marriage. I felt like he'd rather upset me than upset his ex. Rationally I know I'm easier to deal with when I'm upset than she is on any day, but it still hurt that pleasing her was more important than pleasing me. 

I tell you this because it may be what your future with him looks like if he doesn't stand up to her unreasonable demands. This will set the precedent for their future dealings. It may not seem like a big deal now but after the rose-colored glasses of a new relationship have come off this will become a very big deal. 

How do you feel about him asking you to stay away when his daughter is around in order to appease his ex (because there is no valid reason to comply)? What if he decides to agree to her terms on a permanent basis to avoid going to Court even though it's a ludicrous request? Just something to think about...


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

hotshotdot said:


> EnigmaGirl has given you excellent advice & I can second it from my experience. It is frustrating to see how insecure & selfish some mothers can be even if it harms their own child. I have never been that way & it really riled me up when my stepson's mom would manipulate both my hubby & my stepson. Now, I have had to take a step back & stay out of it for my own sanity & the sake of my marriage. I know it sounds harsh, but the reality is that my hubby venting his frustrations to me while being unwilling to change the way he handled things was causing problems in our marriage. I felt like he'd rather upset me than upset his ex. Rationally I know I'm easier to deal with when I'm upset than she is on any day, but it still hurt that pleasing her was more important than pleasing me.
> 
> I tell you this because it may be what your future with him looks like if he doesn't stand up to her unreasonable demands. This will set the precedent for their future dealings. It may not seem like a big deal now but after the rose-colored glasses of a new relationship have come off this will become a very big deal.
> 
> How do you feel about him asking you to stay away when his daughter is around in order to appease his ex (because there is no valid reason to comply)? What if he decides to agree to her terms on a permanent basis to avoid going to Court even though it's a ludicrous request? Just something to think about...


I was really pissed off when he first told me, and asked me to help him with this until mediation goes on (in total 2 weeks from when he told me to the date of mediation). He knew I wasn't going to like it and he said he didn't like it either. I think he was afraid that if he didn't do it, she wouldn't let him see their daughter because at this point there is no documentation in place of who the primary is so either can have their daughter as long as they want.

I have thought about what will happen if he chooses to not fight her. I honestly have no idea what is going to happen in that room. I wish I could be a fly on the wall, ha! Anyway, I have to come to terms that if he chooses to do what she asks him even if he doesn't have to, that he doesn't respect me or our relationship. Now, I know that his daughter is #1, but in my eyes, he doesn't have to choose, he can have both.

As hard as it will be, I think I will have to walk away if he chooses to do what she asks him, and he doesn't fight it.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

hotshotdot said:


> EnigmaGirl has given you excellent advice & I can second it from my experience. It is frustrating to see how insecure & selfish some mothers can be even if it harms their own child. I have never been that way & it really riled me up when my stepson's mom would manipulate both my hubby & my stepson. Now, I have had to take a step back & stay out of it for my own sanity & the sake of my marriage. I know it sounds harsh, but the reality is that my hubby venting his frustrations to me while being unwilling to change the way he handled things was causing problems in our marriage. I felt like he'd rather upset me than upset his ex. Rationally I know I'm easier to deal with when I'm upset than she is on any day, but it still hurt that pleasing her was more important than pleasing me.
> 
> I tell you this because it may be what your future with him looks like *if he doesn't stand up to her unreasonable demands*. This will set the precedent for their future dealings. It may not seem like a big deal now but after the rose-colored glasses of a new relationship have come off this will become a very big deal.
> 
> How do you feel about him asking you to stay away when his daughter is around in order to appease his ex (because there is no valid reason to comply)? What if he decides to agree to her terms on a permanent basis to avoid going to Court even though it's a ludicrous request? Just something to think about...


Standing up to a high conflict ex may look differently to different people. My wife was very frustrated and sometimes angry with me for not fighting back...in the way SHE wanted me to. To her, it seemed as if I was just letting my ex walk all over me because I would not engage. I would not argue against the sh1t she was spewing. I would not try to correct the horrible lies she was telling. Instead, I completely ignored my ex. I refused to engage at all. I ignored requests for mediation, opting instead only to respond to communications that came through the courts. To me, my ex wife was just noise that did not, and could not have any real direct impact on our relationship.

After a particularly big blow up between my wife and I about a year ago when my ex wife sent a text implying that I was a bad father, a text I promptly ignored, boy was my wife pissed that I didn't stand up for myself by telling my ex off. I assured my wife that I didn't think I was a bad father. I asked if she thought I was a bad father. Of course, she thinks I am a fantastic father. I asked if she thought the kids thought I was a bad father, if she thought her kids thought I was a bad father. Nope, they all think I am a great father too. So who's opinion is left that actually matters? I also pointed out that every battle I had chosen to engage in, I had won, and the ones my ex wife tried to start that I ignored went exactly no where.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> I would be the same type of parent as you. I would want happy and good role model type of people around my children.


With all due respect, come back to us when you actually ARE a parent and you have a daughter who is developing a relationship with another mother. You cannot POSSIBLY know what you would do as a parent when you're not a parent.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I actually disagree with this completely. You do not defer to this woman's nonsense. You absolutely should not contact her.
> 
> Not all women are like this. I'm a divorced woman with a daughter and have zero issue with my ex-husband having other women around my daughter. I'm her mother and a very good one and I'm completely confident in that. I don't feel like I'm competing with another woman in my ex's life...instead my only hope is that he has decent, good people around my daughter. And the couple of girlfriends he's had, my daughter has indicated are very nice and kind to her and have good values. That's all I care about. I think its wonderful that my kid has more good people around her who care about her. I'm very secure in my place in my childrens' lives.
> 
> ...


I'm glad for you that you don't seem to have any insecurity issues. Some of us women do, especially after being married to a man who devalues you for years on end.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Standing up to a high conflict ex may look differently to different people. My wife was very frustrated and sometimes angry with me for not fighting back...in the way SHE wanted me to. To her, it seemed as if I was just letting my ex walk all over me because I would not engage. I would not argue against the sh1t she was spewing. I would not try to correct the horrible lies she was telling. Instead, I completely ignored my ex. I refused to engage at all. I ignored requests for mediation, opting instead only to respond to communications that came through the courts. To me, my ex wife was just noise that did not, and could not have any real direct impact on our relationship.
> 
> After a particularly big blow up between my wife and I about a year ago when my ex wife sent a text implying that I was a bad father, a text I promptly ignored, boy was my wife pissed that I didn't stand up for myself by telling my ex off. I assured my wife that I didn't think I was a bad father. I asked if she thought I was a bad father. Of course, she thinks I am a fantastic father. I asked if she thought the kids thought I was a bad father, if she thought her kids thought I was a bad father. Nope, they all think I am a great father too. So who's opinion is left that actually matters? I also pointed out that every battle I had chosen to engage in, I had won, and the ones my ex wife tried to start that I ignored went exactly no where.


There are things he does ignore. But this, is not a fight he can ignore. There are things his ex has text him about and he just ignores them, which I understand. But he cannot ignore this idiotic request of hers, unfortunately.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> With all due respect, come back to us when you actually ARE a parent and you have a daughter who is developing a relationship with another mother. You cannot POSSIBLY know what you would do as a parent when you're not a parent.


Unfortunately for you, you have no idea what I've been through. I pretty much raised my niece, and although she may not be my daughter, I am very much a mother form in her life. So yes, I do know what's happening. And also, I have been a child with divorced parents where my mom tried to control my relationship with my step mom. Been there, done that. May not be the EXACT but, I'm very familiar with these situations.. sadly.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ihatethis said:


> There are things he does ignore. But this, is not a fight he can ignore. There are things his ex has text him about and he just ignores them, which I understand. *But he cannot ignore this idiotic request of hers, unfortunately*.


Sure he can. He can have his attorney file for an emergency custody and visitation order to get a legally established visitation and parenting time schedule. That way his ex can't legally with hold contact. At that point, he can safely ignore any and all rantings, demands, requests, or other contact from her. If his ex wants to dictate the who, what, when, where, how, and why of his time with his daughter, then she can get a court order for it. Anything less than a court order, he is under exactly ZERO obligation to indulge, engage, or even acknowledge.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Sure he can. He can have his attorney file for an emergency custody and visitation order to get a legally established visitation and parenting time schedule. That way his ex can't legally with hold contact. At that point, he can safely ignore any and all rantings, demands, requests, or other contact from her. If his ex wants to dictate the who, what, when, where, how, and why of his time with his daughter, then she can get a court order for it. Anything less than a court order, he is under exactly ZERO obligation to indulge, engage, or even acknowledge.


I suppose so, but for the sake of lawyer costs and such, I am just stepping back until mediation. He needs to focus on getting his daughter more. He is a big boy, and if he wants to stand up to her, he will. If not, then he can deal with that insanity on his own.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ihatethis said:


> I suppose so, but for the sake of lawyer costs and such, I am just stepping back until mediation. He needs to focus on getting his daughter more. He is a big boy, and if he wants to stand up to her, he will. If not, then he can deal with that insanity on his own.


Standing up to someone does not necessarily mean engaging them. With my ex wife, it can easily turn into a 30 text back and forth, a half an hour phone call with absolutely nothing being accomplished other than her getting that much emotional energy from me. She is no longer entitled to my emotional energy. She chose to cheat. I chose to divorce.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Standing up to someone does not necessarily mean engaging them. With my ex wife, it can easily turn into a 30 text back and forth, a half an hour phone call with absolutely nothing being accomplished other than her getting that much emotional energy from me. She is no longer entitled to my emotional energy. She chose to cheat. I chose to divorce.


So what do you think of this..

Last week he talked to his daughter and after they hung up he got a text from his ex's phone and it said "If you don't start being nice to (let's call her Lisa), I will"... so it was implying it was some guy...

The next day he talked to Lisa and she played dumb....


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> Unfortunately for you, you have no idea what I've been through. I pretty much raised my niece, and although she may not be my daughter, I am very much a mother form in her life. So yes, I do know what's happening. And also, I have been a child with divorced parents where my mom tried to control my relationship with my step mom. Been there, done that. May not be the EXACT but, I'm very familiar with these situations.. sadly.


I'm sorry if I came across as angry, but "I would never" (or equivalent) statements are a real hot button with me, especially in cases where I've "been there." You sound like a very, very nice woman. I've been on the other side of it, as a great mom (at least I think so) who is also insecure (just finished a 6 week Bible Study about insecurity) and my daughter's relationship with the other woman has been pretty difficult for me to deal with, even though she also is GREAT to my daughter. My ex doesn't help by trying to alienate her from me, but that's a whole 'nother story. I went into marriage and parenthood with never a thought that I may have to share my daughter (and son) someday. I didn't live that life, but it sounds like you did as a child of divorce. I would imagine that my daughter will have the same "I would never" convictions as you do. <3 <3

I'm sorry for taking my "feelings" out on you.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> So what do you think of this..
> 
> Last week he talked to his daughter and after they hung up he got a text from his ex's phone and it said "If you don't start being nice to (let's call her Lisa), I will"... so it was implying it was some guy...
> 
> The next day he talked to Lisa and she played dumb....


What I take from this is someone who is emotionally messed up right now and is going to regret this childish and bizarre behavior someday. 

But, was he mean to her?


----------



## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

ihatethis said:


> _No, he isn't treating her better, he just isn't being as harsh as he could be. Only because he wants this as civil as possible, for his daughters sake - because he knows his ex talks about these things in front of their daughter. I know there is nothing that he or I can do about that, and I've accepted that._ QUOTE]
> 
> There* IS *something your BF can do about this. BF needs to speak with his attorney about this and have language prohibiting *BOTH *of them speaking badly about the other and the consequences for doing so (e.g. less custody time). It is called alienation of affection. Your BF needs to speak with his attorney about this. This is something the courts will sign off on.
> 
> IamSomebody


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

IamSomebody said:


> ihatethis said:
> 
> 
> > _No, he isn't treating her better, he just isn't being as harsh as he could be. Only because he wants this as civil as possible, for his daughters sake - because he knows his ex talks about these things in front of their daughter. I know there is nothing that he or I can do about that, and I've accepted that._ QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm sorry if I came across as angry, but "I would never" (or equivalent) statements are a real hot button with me, especially in cases where I've "been there." You sound like a very, very nice woman. I've been on the other side of it, as a great mom (at least I think so) who is also insecure (just finished a 6 week Bible Study about insecurity) and my daughter's relationship with the other woman has been pretty difficult for me to deal with, even though she also is GREAT to my daughter. My ex doesn't help by trying to alienate her from me, but that's a whole 'nother story. I went into marriage and parenthood with never a thought that I may have to share my daughter (and son) someday. I didn't live that life, but it sounds like you did as a child of divorce. I would imagine that my daughter will have the same "I would never" convictions as you do. <3 <3
> 
> I'm sorry for taking my "feelings" out on you.


It's ok, because I am sure that if you are unfamiliar with the situation, it is hard to understand. The thing is, I am very understanding. Alienating your daughter is a terrible thing to do, so I am sorry to hear that. 

I just know this isn't even about me. If it was, she would have wanted to meet me to see who her daughter is around. But, for her this is how she can control my bf.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> What I take from this is someone who is emotionally messed up right now and is going to regret this childish and bizarre behavior someday.
> 
> But, was he mean to her?


Not in the SLIGHTEST. She looks at him that if he doesn't do exactly as she says, that is him being mean.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Here is another scenario of the ex.

2 weekends ago it will be, he, his daughter, and I carved pumpkins at his house. This last Friday, Lisa contacted BF and said that their daughter wanted him (it's Lisa's weekend FYI) to come to her and her mom's house to carve pumpkins. He told her if he had more time with his daughter, he would be doing more of that. He told Lisa he was busy and she got super upset with him that he wasn't going to be dropping his plans to go be with him.

How does she NOT see this is unacceptable for their daughter? It would confuse her, and it's not appropriate. Of course, she then makes him feel guilty and saying "Oh so you are not going to come here when your daughter wants you to"... type of thing. It's so beyond frustrating.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> Not in the SLIGHTEST. She looks at him that if he doesn't do exactly as she says, that is him being mean.


Sadly, I don't think this will be solved in mediation. The most you and your BF can do right now, in my opinion, is to be an emotionally stable and positive/happy place for his daughter. I've talked to my counselor at length about how frustrating it is to be bad mouthed by my ex and it's so hard to be "patient" for when they become adults and finally see things from an adult perspective. The most that can be done now is to just be the best version of yourself. 

Did your BF's ex cheat on him? Is that why she left?


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> But, for her this is how she can control my bf.


It is, I agree. But I think it's also about her own insecurity. If she was as secure as @EnigmaGirl seems to be, none of this would even be happening. 

I've not behaved in these ways with my ex with regard to custody, etc., but I have behaved emotionally toward him (and also the OW via email) due to my own personal insecurity. I've even told my kids that I feel jealous of the other woman and their relationship with her, and that's not right of me to do that. (I also always tell them to feel free to have a relationship with her because she loves them, but they KNOW how I truly feel--threatened--and it's not good for them, it's confusing, and it's my fault . ) 

I want to make it clear I think she's 100% wrong here, but I do "see" things from her perspective, what's motivating her bad behavior. I hope she's in therapy because it helps!


----------



## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

I wasn't speaking about general conflict, it is about enforcing your legal rights. I am quite familiar with not engaging with a high-conflict ex, my ex is one of the worst & I do not ever engage in his irrational crap spewing. I deal with him professionally & cordially through text & email & only about the kids. It has worked very well & we have few issues even though he is diagnosed bipolar/BPD & an alcoholic with rage issues. I have set an example for my hubby of how to "win" with a high-conflict person but you have to be willing to take a stand when it comes to your rights as a parent (see my previous reply about going to Court not to fight custody but to have the Judge reinforce my ex's responsibility to pay for extracurricular activities).

Hubby does ignore his son's mother's nasty comments & texts & refuses to engage her in that respect. But he also refuses to enforce his legal rights when she interferes with his visitation because she has shown to retaliate (also violating his rights). For example, this summer we took a family vacation out of state. When he picked up his son she told him that he had to have him back on Sunday morning for flag football practice. He told her we would be out of town so he'd have to miss practice (it is his right to do what he wants with his son on his weekends & this was only practice, not a game, so it was not important). In retaliation, on the following scheduled weekend she lied & said he was sick so he wouldn't be coming for visitation. Checked the next day & she said he's still sick. We showed up at his flag football game & sure enough he was playing. When he saw his dad & came over to say hi on his water break hubby said he was glad to see he was feeling better, to which his son replied he wasn't sick but his mom was. She lied, his son admitted it was a lie, but nothing was done about it. She actually had the audacity to text my hubby afterward saying she didn't appreciate him showing up unannounced & proceeded to spew a bunch of garbage about how he's damaging his son lol. He didn't respond to that. It was supposed to be his weekend with his son & she had no right to be informed he was coming to his son's game. But rather than point that out to her & ignore the rest of the garbage, he ignored it all. He could have ignored it & then filed papers in Court because she violated the custody agreement but he didn't do that either. So now that she has signed him up for fall flag football guess what he's driving 2 hours away for every Sunday morning & losing the rest of the day with him after because it's not feasible to bring him 2 hours back to our house only to have to turn around & drive an hour to meet his mom halfway. I probably would, just to make a point & stop making it so convenient for her, but hubby doesn't think it's worth it. He won't ask her to drop him off on Friday either since he's bringing him all the way home instead of meeting halfway. He knows she'll say no so why bother? So that's where we're at. If he'd enforce his rights & take her back to Court she couldn't retaliate but each time she gets away with it reinforces her behavior.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ihatethis said:


> So what do you think of this..
> 
> Last week he talked to his daughter and after they hung up he got a text from his ex's phone and it said "If you don't start being nice to (let's call her Lisa), I will"... so it was implying it was some guy...
> 
> The next day he talked to Lisa and she played dumb....


Ignore it. My ex wife did all kinds of mind game crap with me too. His ex wife's input is of no value to his relationship with his daughter. He needs to focus on that completely independently of his ex wife. He can not control what his ex says or does, so he should not worry about it. Be the best day he can be, mae the most of every interaction he has with his daughter, and let the chips fall where they may. Just as he can not control what his ex does, he can not control how his daughter sees him, so he has to show her through his actions that he is the better parent, and part of that is not letting himself get dragged into the sh1t with his ex. HIS EX IS OF NO CONSEQUENCE.

The cool thing is, if he can get things back on the track in dealing with his ex, he has a golden opportunity with you to show his daughter how a good, loving, and happy relationship is supposed to be between two people.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Ignore it. My ex wife did all kinds of mind game crap with me too. His ex wife's input is of no value to his relationship with his daughter. He needs to focus on that completely independently of his ex wife. He can not control what his ex says or does, so he should not worry about it. Be the best day he can be, mae the most of every interaction he has with his daughter, and let the chips fall where they may. Just as he can not control what his ex does, he can not control how his daughter sees him, so he has to show her through his actions that he is the better parent, and part of that is not letting himself get dragged into the sh1t with his ex. HIS EX IS OF NO CONSEQUENCE.
> 
> The cool thing is, if he can get things back on the track in dealing with his ex, he has a golden opportunity with you to show his daughter how a good, loving, and happy relationship is supposed to be between two people.


I just hope he gets through this and doesn't fall for her ****. She pretty much used him and knows how to get to him mentally.

I know that he probably got into our relationship too quickly from when they were done, but it kind of just happened. However, because I've been there and done that, I am understanding. I have asked him many times if he wants me to let him be so he can focus on this or if he wants to be back with his ex and he says no.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ihatethis said:


> I just hope he gets through this and doesn't fall for her ****. *She pretty much used him and knows how to get to him mentally*.
> 
> I know that he probably got into our relationship too quickly from when they were done, but it kind of just happened. However, because I've been there and done that, I am understanding. I have asked him many times if he wants me to let him be so he can focus on this or if he wants to be back with his ex and he says no.


I can understand this. My ex wife is clinically diagnosed NPD. It's tough but can be ovecome.


----------



## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

[/QUOTE]
I just know this isn't even about me. If it was, she would have wanted to meet me to see who her daughter is around. But, for her this is how she can control my bf.[/QUOTE

She might not necessarily feel the need to meet you. I didn't care to meet my ex's girlfriends because I knew how they treated my sons since they would tell me (not that I asked, they always shared). Only when my ex got engaged this year, then I wanted to meet my sons' future stepmom. This was more for her than for me actually since my experience becoming a stepmom hasn't been easy for me. I made sure to congratulate her & tell her (in front of my youngest son) that I expected them to treat her with respect & not give her any problems. Now she may think I was full of it based on the lies I'm sure my ex has told her, but saying it in front of my youngest son was my way of making sure she knew I had at least expressed my expectations to him. I recently declined my ex's invitation inside his fiancee's home that they had moved into because I don't need to check it out or get to know her better. It's not my place to intrude on their life together, just as it's not his place to ask about mine. So don't read too much into why she doesn't want to meet you. It could be a lot of different reasons.


----------



## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> Here is another scenario of the ex.
> 
> 2 weekends ago it will be, he, his daughter, and I carved pumpkins at his house. This last Friday, Lisa contacted BF and said that their daughter wanted him (it's Lisa's weekend FYI) to come to her and her mom's house to carve pumpkins. He told her if he had more time with his daughter, he would be doing more of that. He told Lisa he was busy and she got super upset with him that he wasn't going to be dropping his plans to go be with him.
> 
> How does she NOT see this is unacceptable for their daughter? It would confuse her, and it's not appropriate. Of course, she then makes him feel guilty and saying "Oh so you are not going to come here when your daughter wants you to"... type of thing. It's so beyond frustrating.


Yep that's how it begins. Manipulation through guilt. Glad your BF told her no even though it must have been hard. That's where you need to be very supportive & sympathize that even though it must have been tough to turn down time with his daughter that he was doing the right thing & in the long run it will make things so much easier!


----------



## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> ihatethis said:
> 
> 
> > Not in the SLIGHTEST. She looks at him that if he doesn't do exactly as she says, that is him being mean.
> ...


 I agree if she's not reasonable it's not likely to be solved in mediation. Mediation requires parties to be agreeable. Mediators have no real authority & can't pass judgement. With high-conflict people they can't see the forest through the trees & need an authority figure (Judge) to spell out what they can/can't do & even then they'll still disagree but they won't have the power to do anything about it.


----------



## Dread Pirate Roberts (May 22, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Standing up to someone does not necessarily mean engaging them. With my ex wife, it can easily turn into a 30 text back and forth, a half an hour phone call with absolutely nothing being accomplished other than her getting that much emotional energy from me. She is no longer entitled to my emotional energy. She chose to cheat. I chose to divorce.


Amen to this. It took me about 6-8 months to get this through my thick skull after I left. Sure, I felt like I "stuck it to her" for a bit after it's over, then I felt like crap for engaging her in the first place, because that's just what she wanted. Much, much better for me now that I just ignore her.

DPR


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> It is frustrating to see how insecure & selfish some mothers can be even if it harms their own child. I have never been that way & it really riled me up when my stepson's mom would manipulate both my hubby & my stepson. Now, I have had to take a step back & stay out of it for my own sanity & the sake of my marriage.


Too many women have a sense of ownership over children. They think they have the right to approve what the ex-spouse does after the relationship with them is over. Generally judges will set them straight....that's why mediation doesn't often work with these types.



> I think he was afraid that if he didn't do it, she wouldn't let him see their daughter because at this point there is no documentation in place of who the primary is so either can have their daughter as long as they want.


This is really, really important. If there is no documentation in place then both parents have de facto 50/50 custody and he needs to insist on enforcing it. Its a use it or lose it thing. She has ZERO right to mandate or gatekeeper when he sees his kid. He needs to immediately come up with a fair 50/50 schedule and email it to her. If that doesn't work for her, then she can propose another alternative schedule as long as the split is equal. 

Once agreed upon, he needs to stick to it to the letter. Be right on time to pick her up and drop her off. Do NOT let her decide when he can see the child. This is actually not the law.

This is another major mistake that fathers make in custody disputes. If this drags on for a long time, its absolutely crucial he gets a schedule in place.



> I'm glad for you that you don't seem to have any insecurity issues. Some of us women do, especially after being married to a man who devalues you for years on end.


With all due respect, you don't know anything about my past marriage. My ex-husband was middle eastern and did nothing but disrespect my contributions and belittle me. However, I divorced him and my dislike for him has zero to do with being a good mother to my children.

I don't visit my resentment for my past marriage on my children. And no matter what he said or continues to say about me, I have absolutenconfidence that I love my children and parent to the best of my ability. No matter who my ex-husband brings into his life...no one can replace me as my children's mother.

My ex-husband's personal life is none of my business. I have my own life to live.


----------



## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> > It is frustrating to see how insecure & selfish some mothers can be even if it harms their own child. I have never been that way & it really riled me up when my stepson's mom would manipulate both my hubby & my stepson. Now, I have had to take a step back & stay out of it for my own sanity & the sake of my marriage.
> 
> 
> Too many women have a sense of ownership over children. They think they have the right to approve what the ex-spouse does after the relationship with them is over. Generally judges will set them straight....that's why mediation doesn't often work with these types.
> ...


I couldn't agree more to everything you have said here. All of it! So rather than adding to it, I'll just quote it to repeat these sentiments!


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I just know this isn't even about me. If it was, she would have wanted to meet me to see who her daughter is around. But, for her this is how she can control my bf.


lol, its a good thing that she doesn't want to meet you. Go with it.



> 2 weekends ago it will be, he, his daughter, and I carved pumpkins at his house. This last Friday, Lisa contacted BF and said that their daughter wanted him (it's Lisa's weekend FYI) to come to her and her mom's house to carve pumpkins. He told her if he had more time with his daughter, he would be doing more of that. He told Lisa he was busy and she got super upset with him that he wasn't going to be dropping his plans to go be with him.


You guys are both going to need to learn to disengage and stop getting involved in drama and nonsense.

I can tell you that right after I separated, I got some life-changing advice from a very good friend who'd been through a difficult custody situation. She told me to only communicate with my ex by email and only respond IF the communication had to do with relevant parenting issues. If it was my ex stating his opinion or telling me what to do...I'd ignore it. Its not legally actionable and his opinion didn't matter.

Best thing I ever did. In 6 years, I've never verbally spoken to my ex-husband. I don't know his phone number, I don't know anything about him and we live a mile apart. We email maybe once a month and its generally about 1 line of text. 

Its a lot easier to get your ex out of your life when you work hard to get your ex out of your life and move along with your own.



> The cool thing is, if he can get things back on the track in dealing with his ex, he has a golden opportunity with you to show his daughter how a good, loving, and happy relationship is supposed to be between two people.


So very true. Me and my new husband have a wonderful relationship and on any given day, my kid would rather be with us than with my ex. She makes that very clear.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

I just know this isn't even about me. If it was, she would have wanted to meet me to see who her daughter is around. But, for her this is how she can control my bf.[/QUOTE

She might not necessarily feel the need to meet you. I didn't care to meet my ex's girlfriends because I knew how they treated my sons since they would tell me (not that I asked, they always shared). Only when my ex got engaged this year, then I wanted to meet my sons' future stepmom. This was more for her than for me actually since my experience becoming a stepmom hasn't been easy for me. I made sure to congratulate her & tell her (in front of my youngest son) that I expected them to treat her with respect & not give her any problems. Now she may think I was full of it based on the lies I'm sure my ex has told her, but saying it in front of my youngest son was my way of making sure she knew I had at least expressed my expectations to him. I recently declined my ex's invitation inside his fiancee's home that they had moved into because I don't need to check it out or get to know her better. It's not my place to intrude on their life together, just as it's not his place to ask about mine. So don't read too much into why she doesn't want to meet you. It could be a lot of different reasons.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's fine if she doesn't want to meet me. But then she can't complain about not knowing who her daughter is around.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Yesterday he text me and told me that Lisa contacted him and said he could have their daughter starting last night since she didn't have school today or tomorrow, if their daughter wanted to of course. So then last night he called me and told me that Lisa was on her way out to drop of their daughter. This made me so mad... I don't understand why they couldn't meet up half way like they normally do.

I was out with 2 very good friends of mine last night (a couple) and the girl went to the bathroom and the guy was sitting there and I was just expressing to him how frustrated I was and he told me it took him a long time to get his head out of his a$$ and grow up. He said something to me that really changed my thought process kind of. He told met hat sometimes we have to just let go of our worries and know that we were put on this path and we will have the strength to follow it no matter where it leads us. 

I'm just really anxious for mediation because 1. I want to see how it is going to go and 2. I want to see how it's going to be after mediation

I'm not the most patient person in the world.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> Yesterday he text me and told me that Lisa contacted him and said he could have their daughter starting last night since she didn't have school today or tomorrow, if their daughter wanted to of course. So then last night he called me and told me that Lisa was on her way out to drop of their daughter. This made me so mad... I don't understand why they couldn't meet up half way like they normally do.
> 
> I was out with 2 very good friends of mine last night (a couple) and the girl went to the bathroom and the guy was sitting there and I was just expressing to him how frustrated I was and he told me it took him a long time to get his head out of his a$$ and grow up. He said something to me that really changed my thought process kind of. He told met hat sometimes we have to just let go of our worries and know that we were put on this path and we will have the strength to follow it no matter where it leads us.
> 
> ...


Why did it bother you so much that she was dropping her off at his home? Is it a trust issue with her being at the home?


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Why did it bother you so much that she was dropping her off at his home? Is it a trust issue with her being at the home?


I do NOT trust her at all. I can see her going in the house and putting on a show for their daughter and then being there and getting her daughter to say "mom can't you stay"... and then she would guilt him in front of their daughter... all he cares about is his relationship with his little girl. She puts him in these insane scenarios.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

ihatethis said:


> Actually, that's not entirely true. He provided a home for them, has always been the one who worked so she didn't have to, always went to her family functions (she would never go to his - and his family is awesome), she cheated on him when she was 8 months pregnant with their daughter, etc. I know there are two sides to every story, but I have heard many things from other people, outside of his family about what his ex is really like.
> 
> He is such a great dad to his daughter, and if I though for a moment that he was dysfunctional in that sense, I wouldn't even be around.


There are 3 adults in this picture.
Your boyfriend chose a terrible person to impregnate. That was his choice. The two of them, unmarried ,and her having just cheated when she was 8 months pregnant, then chose to stay unmarried and raise the child while living together. All along the way adults could have made completely different choices.

The end result of the choices you are making and the choices that the parents of this child are making are a bad life for a 6 year old.

Your choice to stay in the middle of this, causes the mother of this child to act even worse, making the situation even worse for the child.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Hicks said:


> There are 3 adults in this picture.
> Your boyfriend chose a terrible person to impregnate. That was his choice. The two of them, unmarried ,and her having just cheated when she was 8 months pregnant, then chose to stay unmarried and raise the child while living together. All along the way adults could have made completely different choices.
> 
> The end result of the choices you are making and the choices that the parents of this child are making are a bad life for a 6 year old.
> ...


Yes, he did stay with her to try to keep them a family for their daughter. He thought it was best for her. 

I just want to say this. Yes, technically I am in the middle. However, I don't ask his daughter about her mom and I most certainly do not reach out to the mother. The other thing is, she is going to act this way about anyone he sees. So then what? He should never find a relationship again?


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Let's look at what is bound to happen.
You already pointed out a flaw in your man that is a sign of your own incompatibility with him. He also could not maintain a relationship with his Ex. You have a meddling ex girlfriend who is planning to make things difficult. There is a very good chance that you and your boyfriend will break up some time while this child is stilll young. This is highly probable based on all known relationship statitstics. When that happens, the child suddenly and harshly loses a mother figure, after having her original M/F "family" taken away. Since it would be silly for this man not to have girlfriends over the next 12 years, this cycle gets repeated 4-5 more times.

So the answer to your question, in terms of the child, yes it would be better for him to avoid bringing this form or drama into his child's life. And an argument that you should stick with him because if you don't he will just get another girlfriend anyhow and continue to perpetuate these dramas on his daughter is not really a strong one.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Hicks said:


> Let's look at what is bound to happen.
> You already pointed out a flaw in your man that is a sign of your own incompatibility with him. He also could not maintain a relationship with his Ex. You have a meddling ex girlfriend who is planning to make things difficult. There is a very good chance that you and your boyfriend will break up some time while this child is stilll young. This is highly probable based on all known relationship statitstics. When that happens, the child suddenly and harshly loses a mother figure, after having her original M/F "family" taken away. Since it would be silly for this man not to have girlfriends over the next 12 years, this cycle gets repeated 4-5 more times.
> 
> So the answer to your question, in terms of the child, yes it would be better for him to avoid bringing this form or drama into his child's life. And an argument that you should stick with him because if you don't he will just get another girlfriend anyhow and continue to perpetuate these dramas on his daughter is not really a strong one.


You're right, we could break up. And yes, there is a flaw, but no relationship is perfect, even the greatest ones. The problem with today is that so many people just quit when things aren't perfect... that's not how it works.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I think the greater problem is people view "relationships" and marriages as the same thing.

In a relationship, you should evaluate the person as marriage material and bail on it immediately when you realize that this person in their entirety will not provide you with 50 years of happiness.

In a marriage, you should work hard to make things work, but this should be far easier for people who made good choices rather than ones who clung to bad ones.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Yeah, it's fine if she doesn't want to meet me. But then she can't complain about not knowing who her daughter is around.


Who cares what she complains about. Her opinion isn't relevant and is only important if you and your bf make it important.

Disengage.



> I do NOT trust her at all. I can see her going in the house and putting on a show for their daughter and then being there and getting her daughter to say "mom can't you stay"... and then she would guilt him in front of their daughter... all he cares about is his relationship with his little girl. She puts him in these insane scenarios.


Then he's an idiot and you're in a relationship with a guy who can't disengage from his ex.

My ex has never been in my home and wouldn't be permitted to ever be in my home. If he has a heart attack between his car and ringing my doorbell to pick my kid up, he'd be doing it on the curb.

This isn't an issue with your bf's ex...its an issue with him having an inappropriate relationship with her.

The only thing he should be doing with her is emailing her based on relevant parenting issues. The emails should be concise, short and polite and that's it.

Phone calls, texts, visits to the house...completely ridiculous and unnecessary. And the height of craziness is kowtowing to her ridiculous whims and desires. The more you both keep engaging her at this level, the more the nonsense continues. IGNORE HER.

The longer you both continue to behave like this, the longer you perpetuate her power. Its foolish and will make the habits increasingly hard to break.

Here's the facts: With no agreement in place, your bf's obligation is to exercise his parental rights. He has de facto 50/50 custody. He has to demonstrate that he utilized this if he goes to court. He should be having the child 50% of the time...taking her to school, to doctor's visits, etc. And he should be documenting it...especially if she violates the schedule or refuses his parental time. 

Every time she does that, he should be sending her an email that says "I do not agree with your unilateral decision to violate my parental time and want a make-up date on XX-XX-XXXX to replace the time that you kept our child". He should keep all that documentation for court. I can tell you that I walked into every court appearance I had with a large folder of email and schedule information. Your bf has THE EXACT SAME parenting rights that she has. She has no additional parenting rights at the current time. So he's letting her control the situation which is completely stupid on his part.

Bottom line, you guys are making her far more important and relevant than she actually is. Stop caring about what she says and does and concentrate on the child.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Who cares what she complains about. Her opinion isn't relevant and is only important if you and your bf make it important.
> 
> Disengage.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you are saying. 100%. Here's hoping I can keep my cool until next Thursday.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Your choice to stay in the middle of this, causes the mother of this child to act even worse, making the situation even worse for the child.


Who cares how she acts? Its not their problem. He has equal parenting rights...period.

There's nothing they can do to influence or change what she's going to do. The only thing they can do is ignore her and concentrate on parenting this child when she's in their care. 

The mistake they're making is believing that the ex gf is owed some deference of some kind. She isn't...At all.

When she has the child on her parenting time, she will decide who is appropriate to have around her child. She is the child's mother and has every right to make those determinations. He as the child's father has EXACTLY the same rights. Period. Their private lives are none of each other's business unless she can prove in court that this new gf is a danger to her child...and that bar is very high. The new gf would have to have a criminal record showing that she's dangerous to children and hasn't received treatment.

So again, this ex is powerless unless they continue to engage her at a stupid level. Her opinion on their relationship is completely irrelevant.

My advice OP...tell your bf to read the laws about custody and access in your state and understand them well. You'll quickly see that she has no legal standing to demand anything and you'll never have to answer in any court of law about the nature of your relationship. There's nothing she can do. In the meantime, you need to understand what you DO need to do legally to ensure that you get 50/50. He's not doing any of that stuff properly right now and that's what's really going to burn him.

My husband and I were barraged by this type of crap from my ex when I first got separated. I ignored all of it...every email, every legal letter, etc. 

When I went to court, the judge wouldn't even listen to a word of it and got furious when my ex tried to talk over him to complain about my then bf. He admonished my ex on a number of occasions and told him to move on with his own life because mine was none of his business.

My ex is hard-headed as hell and that's what it took to get him to stop but I can tell you that his nonsense never affected a minute of our relationship. I decided when it was appropriate to have my new bf around my family and around my daughter and simply proceeded using my own parental judgement. I didn't give a crap what my ex thought...I was divorcing him and didn't require his input on anything.

Today, I'm very happily remarried and my husband enjoys a very close, loving relationship with both of my girls.

But it can only get better if you stop stooping to her level and start understanding what you actually need to do to ensure the outcome that you'd like. Understand the law.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Who cares how she acts? Its not their problem. He has equal parenting rights...period.
> 
> There's nothing they can do to influence or change what she's going to do. The only thing they can do is ignore her and concentrate on parenting this child when she's in their care.
> 
> ...


I know all this, but my bf is the one that needs to hear it. I guess we will see what happens. But you are so right, and I agree with you.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Have him start by reading this.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...vorce/201309/parallel-parenting-after-divorce


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I know all this, but my bf is the one that needs to hear it. I guess we will see what happens. But you are so right, and I agree with you.


I get that this all takes time. My concern for you and your bf is that right off the bat, you're moving in 100% the wrong direction. 

I do believe that you need to take a step back from the romantic stuff because he needs the time, energy and space to deal with this mess right now. But you should be giving him the advice that he needs to stop dealing with her this way and you should immediately stop too.

So here's my advice on how you should be helping him. Google the custody/access laws in your state and highlight out the important parts.

You'll also be able to find blogs and information on different sites about important things he should be doing. 

Courts work on evidence. They don't care about anything else....they don't want to hear you talk, or gossip, or speculate. Judges hear nothing but crap like that all the time and won't entertain it for more than a minute. But they will respond to evidence. (Look up what evidence constitutes btw...a lot of people don't understand things like hearsay). Once you have a good grasp of that, start making him a list of what he needs to do.

For instance, making a schedule, creating form letters for his email communication to her, documenting parental time with his daughter and what they did, keeping receipts, etc.

He can also review his strategy with his lawyer to confirm that he's doing the things he needs to do.

Then keep coaching him to ignore her. Both of you stay out of her business and stop communicating with her on anything that isn't related to the evidence you need. It will take him some time but keep advising him. Let him vent but don't get involved in any other nonsense.

Its really hard to form new habits...it takes time...so the sooner he starts, the sooner he'll have success. You can definitely help him with this.

Imagine how he'll feel about you when you give him advice that results in him getting the custody outcome he wants with his child.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

As me as the girlfriend, would I be pushy by trying to get him to read this stuff or tell him that he has rights over his ex? Does it seem like I would be trying to create a fight or drama? Because that is not what my intentions are.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ihatethis said:


> As me as the girlfriend, would I be pushy by trying to get him to read this stuff or tell him that he has rights over his ex? *Does it seem like I would be trying to create a fight or drama?* Because that is not what my intentions are.


A fight or drama with him? Only if he has asked you explicitly to butt out and mind your own business. Do you look at each other as partners? In this together? If so, then be there and help him with this. If he reacts negatively to your attempts to help, then you can evaluate that too and decide if you want to still be involved in this.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

In my opinion, he jumped into a relationship too soon before logistics were settled and emotions were calmed down, and introduced the daughter too soon. He's learning this lesson now and unfortunately you and the little girl are the casualties.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> In my opinion, he jumped into a relationship too soon before logistics were settled and emotions were calmed down, and introduced the daughter too soon. He's learning this lesson now and unfortunately you and the little girl are the casualties.


I don't think the issue is the relationship with the girlfriend. It's the completely out of control and boundaryless one with his ex wife that the problem.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> A fight or drama with him? Only if he has asked you explicitly to butt out and mind your own business. Do you look at each other as partners? In this together? If so, then be there and help him with this. If he reacts negatively to your attempts to help, then you can evaluate that too and decide if you want to still be involved in this.


I think it stems from the fact that his ex was so defensive and such a negative person, that he is having to adjust that I am not the same way. There are also a lot of men in his lives where their wives cheated after taking all of their money. So, sometimes, he has a hard time believe that there are good women out there (his ex was also after his money).

But yes, you are right.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> In my opinion, he jumped into a relationship too soon before logistics were settled and emotions were calmed down, and introduced the daughter too soon. He's learning this lesson now and unfortunately you and the little girl are the casualties.


Like I said, he wasn't looking to get into a relationship necessarily. And yea, maybe I did meet his daughter too soon. But unfortunately, we cannot change that now.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> I don't think the issue is the relationship with the girlfriend. It's the completely out of control and boundaryless one with his ex wife that the problem.


I do agree that we wouldn't be having this issues if his ex new her boundaries and if he knew that it's ok to shut her down and that it won't affect him getting his daughter.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

ihatethis said:


> As me as the girlfriend, would I be pushy by trying to get him to read this stuff or tell him that he has rights over his ex? Does it seem like I would be trying to create a fight or drama? Because that is not what my intentions are.


You said he has a lawyer. His lawyer should be telling him everything about child custody laws in your state. Your bf should be ASKING him about his ex's demands so the lawyer can tell him what he needs to be doing to further his case for joint custody, what his legal rights are, and what his legal responsibilities are.

YOU don't and shouldn't be the one pushing him to read up on child custody laws. He should be talking with his lawyer and acting on his lawyer's advice. Your bf seems awfully passive here.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

norajane said:


> You said he has a lawyer. His lawyer should be telling him everything about child custody laws in your state. Your bf should be ASKING him about his ex's demands so the lawyer can tell him what he needs to be doing to further his case for joint custody, what his legal rights are, and what his legal responsibilities are.
> 
> YOU don't and shouldn't be the one pushing him to read up on child custody laws. He should be talking with his lawyer and acting on his lawyer's advice. Your bf seems awfully passive here.


He is very passive. He tries to make everyone happy... and it bites him in the a$$.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ihatethis said:


> He is very passive. He tries to make everyone happy... and it bites him in the a$$.


If this is true, your problems are only just beginning with regard to the ex, custody, child support, etc......


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> If this is true, your problems are only just beginning with regard to the ex, custody, child support, etc......


Well honestly, he knows what he wants for the most part. But he doesn't necessarily know how to handle the confrontations with his ex. 

She is looking for a paycheck because she chooses to not get a real job. He doesn't believe he should have to pay child support if it is 50/50 because she CHOOSES not to work. So, I think if she makes him mad enough, he will push back.

But yes, I do agree, him being passive with her will only hurt him.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> As me as the girlfriend, would I be pushy by trying to get him to read this stuff or tell him that he has rights over his ex? Does it seem like I would be trying to create a fight or drama? Because that is not what my intentions are.


Helping him with legal research and helping him understand his rights is not even close to being interfering. I've done this for friends, acquaintance and work colleagues.

In fact, more people NEED to help others understand the laws in these types of situations. Its a damn shame that more people (mostly men) don't understand their legal parental rights. Unfortunately, far too many men let women gatekeeper the children during custody disputes and its completely against the law and unfair. It also sets a status quo that can be to your detriment for the rest of your case.

I wouldn't even do this as his gf. If you're this person's friend, its the least you could do to help.

This is information that is available on the web. You're not invading anyone's privacy. You're not getting involved in emotional nonsense. You're helping direct him to factual information that he needs to understand to have a fair outcome. Lawyers are tools to use but hoping one is going to fix everything for you is seriously foolish. Lawyers make mistakes all the time. He should be negotiating and agreeing on strategy and getting advice from the lawyer...not letting the lawyer make decisions for him...that's how you lose your case and rack up a huge legal bill. I went through a 6 year divorce with an excellent attorney. I would listen to her advice, do research and sometimes she was completely right and sometimes I'd want to make a slight change in direction.

Lawyers are not gods, they are very fallible and often don't understand new legal precedence which is crucial and you should NEVER leave 100% of the decision making in their hands when you're dealing with the custody of your own child. That's very, very, very bad advice. Its the same thing you do with a financial advisor. You listen to their advice but you do the research and verify before you hand over everything you own to them. And that's just with money...custody is about children. He needs to be well researched.

Interfering would be going to court with him...you should never do that. But helping him with research that every litigant should know is perfectly acceptable and highly advisable.



> Like I said, he wasn't looking to get into a relationship necessarily. And yea, maybe I did meet his daughter too soon. But unfortunately, we cannot change that now


He's allowed to have a relationship whenever he feels like it.



> I do agree that we wouldn't be having this issues if his ex new her boundaries and if he knew that it's ok to shut her down and that it won't affect him getting his daughter.


This is completely his own doing. He's letting her decide when he gets the child. HUGE MISTAKE. She has no legal right to do this. Enforce an agreed upon schedule. Document it.

Its not her boundaries that are the problem. Its his boundaries and the fact that he doesn't have any.



> She is looking for a paycheck because she chooses to not get a real job. He doesn't believe he should have to pay child support if it is 50/50 because she CHOOSES not to work. So, I think if she makes him mad enough, he will push back.


It doesn't matter what he believes. There's a simple calculator that will decide child support payments based on level of parental time and salary. This the last thing he should be worried about.

Trust me, this woman won't be getting rich or be able to support herself based on offset child support unless your bf is a professional basketball player. He needs to concentrate on what's important...getting 50/50 custody.



> Well honestly, he knows what he wants for the most part. But he doesn't necessarily know how to handle the confrontations with his ex.


Sorry to be harsh but if he can't grow up and learn how to handle her and figure out what the laws are regarding the most important person in his life than he's not much a man. 

And why have an ongoing relationship with someone who can't handle their business? It doesn't bode well for your relationship that he's being manipulated like this. You'll never be able to concentrate on the two of you and building a life if he can't deal with this.

Its actually not nearly as hard as he's making it out to be. But it requires strategy and discipline.

I will say this a million times. His ex isn't the problem.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ihatethis said:


> Yes, he did stay with her to try to keep them a family for their daughter. He thought it was best for her.
> 
> I just want to say this. Yes, technically I am in the middle. However, I don't ask his daughter about her mom and I most certainly do not reach out to the mother. The other thing is, she is going to act this way about anyone he sees. So then what? He should never find a relationship again?


Well, at least not the first YEAR they're apart...

Most divorcees I read about typically say they won't let their child get to know anyone they're dating (or even know ABOUT them) until they've been dating at LEAST a year, so that they know the person is going to work out, so as to keep the child from watching that revolving door of potential partners. Like Kate in John Tucker Must Die, calling all of her mom's boyfriends Skip. Why? Cuz she knows they're going to stick around for a little bit and then skip out on them.

I'm not saying you're doing something wrong. It's just that the problem you brought here could be, if not solved, then at least ameliorated, by you stepping out of the picture for now or at least slowing things down to a crawl, until the situation normalizes for everyone. Of course he says 'don't go.' It feels good to have you around. But are you two making the most mature choice? Is feeling good more important than stabilizing the situation?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ihatethis said:


> Well honestly, he knows what he wants for the most part. But he doesn't necessarily know how to handle the confrontations with his ex.


This will only get worse. This is your brain telling you that you two are incompatible. He IS passive. He IS too afraid to stand up for himself. He NEEDS to be on his own to learn HOW to stand up for himself. He went straight into another relationship with no room for growth. You'll be back in five years asking how to get your husband to stop being such a doormat.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

turnera said:


> This will only get worse. This is your brain telling you that you two are incompatible. He IS passive. He IS too afraid to stand up for himself. He NEEDS to be on his own to learn HOW to stand up for himself. He went straight into another relationship with no room for growth. You'll be back in five years asking how to get your husband to stop being such a doormat.


Sadly, I agree with this.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> Well, at least not the first YEAR they're apart...
> 
> Most divorcees I read about typically say they won't let their child get to know anyone they're dating (or even know ABOUT them) until they've been dating at LEAST a year, so that they know the person is going to work out, so as to keep the child from watching that revolving door of potential partners. Like Kate in John Tucker Must Die, calling all of her mom's boyfriends Skip. Why? Cuz she knows they're going to stick around for a little bit and then skip out on them.
> 
> I'm not saying you're doing something wrong. It's just that the problem you brought here could be, if not solved, then at least ameliorated, by you stepping out of the picture for now or at least slowing things down to a crawl, until the situation normalizes for everyone. Of course he says 'don't go.' It feels good to have you around. But are you two making the most mature choice? Is feeling good more important than stabilizing the situation?


I do believe we are making a good choice. The only reason why he was with his ex for so long was so that he knew he would see his daughter every day. He said that during that time his happiness didn't matter. Now that he isn't with his ex, he see's that he doesn't want to be with someone like that. I do also believe that his daughter truly loves being around him as much as possible because she sees him happy. It was terrible for me to be around my mom when she was miserable. It made me feel miserable, and even though it wasn't her fault, it just was uncomfortable for me.

I am backing away. And like I said before, I am just anxiously awaiting to see what happens next week at mediation, and then we just have to go from there.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I were in your shoes, I'd tell him I'm taking a breather so that he can figure out how to deal with this on his own, for his own good and for his daughter's. Tell him what you think, be honest, that he's going to have to learn to defend himself to be successful in all areas of life. I think he needs the honesty more than anything.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> This will only get worse. This is your brain telling you that you two are incompatible. He IS passive. He IS too afraid to stand up for himself. He NEEDS to be on his own to learn HOW to stand up for himself. He went straight into another relationship with no room for growth. You'll be back in five years asking how to get your husband to stop being such a doormat.


The thing is, the only thing he is being passive about his in regards to his daughter. He is not like this in other aspects of his life. All his focus on right now is how he can get his daughter as much as possible. And during his relationship with his ex, she threatened him so much and put up with it for so long so he could be with his daughter, that he is adjusting. 

I do not believe we are incompatible. I do believe you don't have to have the same exact personality type to work. I think people need balance as well. I do understand you are just going from the small things that have been discussed on this, but this is only part of who he is. He is very otherwise take charge in the rest of his life... but his weakness is his daughter, and I'm not going to hate on him for that.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> If I were in your shoes, I'd tell him I'm taking a breather so that he can figure out how to deal with this on his own, for his own good and for his daughter's. Tell him what you think, be honest, that he's going to have to learn to defend himself to be successful in all areas of life. I think he needs the honesty more than anything.


Right now, I am mostly just being a friend to him. I am giving him advice and I have told him he needs to stand up for himself with her, and that she can't control him anymore. He is adjusting. 

He is doing this on his own. I'm not with him every single day telling him "do this" or "do that" but I am giving him advice and giving him my honest opinion. I don't sugar coat things just to be nice because I don't want that in return. I only want honest and genuine people in my life, and that is what I put out there as well.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I wouldn't say you're incompatible, either. I simply think he should have gotten all of this straightened out before jumping into another relationship.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ihatethis said:


> The thing is, the only thing he is being passive about his in regards to his daughter. He is not like this in other aspects of his life.


You sure about that?


> He is very passive. He tries to make everyone happy... and it bites him in the a$$.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> You sure about that?


Yes I am sure about that. He does try to make everyone happy, but he does not allow himself to get walked all over on. In regards to biting himself in the ass, I am referring to his daughter's situation.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

This is not your problem.

Let him figure out what he wants to do. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't then it has only cost you a few months of your life during which was mostly good.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Lon said:


> This is not your problem.
> 
> Let him figure out what he wants to do. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't then it has only cost you a few months of your life during which was mostly good.


I wish I could look at it that way... TRUST me. I'm not saying it's my problem... however, I will be sad if it doesn't work. I know it's not the end of the world either, but he is really great and so different from guys I've dated and he makes me really happy.

But yes, I know. What is meant to be will be.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ihatethis said:


> I wish I could look at it that way... TRUST me. I'm not saying it's my problem... however, I will be sad if it doesn't work. I know it's not the end of the world either, but he is really great and so different from guys I've dated and he makes me really happy.
> 
> But yes, I know. What is meant to be will be.


I guess all I'm saying is stop bothering to think/worry about it, enjoy the time you spend getting to know him and focus on your relationship with him, not his relationship with his kids, his ex etc.

Compartmentalize this.

If he is not able to devote the energy, time or attention needed to just work at a good relationship with you then he isn't ready for a relationship. And if he simply needs support from you for him to deal with his problem so that you are both in better circumstances in the near future, and you are willing to do so, then you don't really need to be having this discussion with strangers on a web forum, only him.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Ihatethis... 

After reading the progress on this thread, I encourage you to read it from the beginning, and see how the story pits you in the middle of a drama that you most absolutely cannot control and do not need at this point in your life. 

You must do what you think is right, but here's what I see... And yes, I admit I may be projecting here, but it is my strong feeling. 

I see you slowly despising your bf's ex, angry that she still has power over him. How many women have been in your shoes, very certain that the man would be great for them if only he'd divorce/cast off/let go of his ex? Problem is, that's up to HIM, not you. Even "supporting" him will do jack for you in return. He'll get to enjoy your company... You are, after all, the most stable and sane thing in his life right now. And YOU are the sponge soaking up the drama oozing from him. You're going to exhaust yourself by absorbing it and being stuck powerless to change it. Eating the sh1t sandwich becomes less palatable as time rolls on. 

You'll get attached to his daughter (you already seem to be) and if anything happens to force a severance of that bond, you will be very hurt. The amount of hurt will be in direct proportion to the time spent together. 

You care too much about what his ex does, what new drama unfolds, how he reacts, how you can be there despite what happens. I believe you can. Lots of us ladies here HAVE done it, and I'll be the first to say I regret wasting the energy. 

Where do you and your needs fit in? Not very snugly as things currently stand. 

I strongly advise you let this man go. I strongly advise you to tell him you'll be there once he's divorced and lives alone with his daughter for 6 months. Meanwhile, you go date some available men that have divorced fully or are available with no hindrances. Or, don't date and just work on yourself and find ways to fill your life. If he rushes to divorce and get his life in order and ready for the next woman in his life (you), you'll know he's serious. I bet he'll be wishy washy, but I could be wrong. 

I expect you to vehemently disagree, even if only in thought. My words are merely my truth. 

You're a "Ms. Right Now," you just don't see it that way because it's impossible for you to be objective.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Satya said:


> Ihatethis...
> 
> After reading the progress on this thread, I encourage you to read it from the beginning, and see how the story pits you in the middle of a drama that you most absolutely cannot control and do not need at this point in your life.
> 
> ...


Well, first of all, they were never married. This is just his ex girlfriend. I know he is always going to have this woman in his life because she is the mother of their daughter. I will not put up with the contact that they've been having, but again, I am waiting for mediation and custody to take place to see how that goes. 

Before him, I dated quite a bit, and it was just ok. I am happy with who I am. I went through a hard divorce and had about a year and a half to figure things out for myself, and I did. I fill my time with many things as I am involved with a lot. 

The thing is, yes, I am a sponge right now, and I have been for most of the people in my life, my whole life. I have been there for others, when no one else would. I don't look at anything like that a waste of time. Someone needed me and I was there. 

Regarding this current situation... Yes, I am there and could be potentially wasting my time. For the time being, I am not going to see him or his daughter, until we know more about custody and mediation. Like I said, if at that time, he cannot cut ties with unnecessary communication with his ex, then I will walk away. But until then, it's just who I am to be there for someone, when they really need it. And I'm not going to change who I am because the situation may not be beneficial for me right now


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Custody &amp; Ex Girlfriend - I'm the new girlfriend*



ihatethis said:


> The thing is, yes, I am a sponge right now, and I have been for most of the people in my life, my whole life. I have been there for others, when no one else would. I don't look at anything like that a waste of time. Someone needed me and I was there.


I know where this comes from because I was like this, too. Let me say that a lesson I learned after years of being selfless is that there is no charity or valor or honor (or insert whatever positive quality you like) in providing what you think is needed, but there is all of that and more in providing what is actually needed.

When we aid people that are perfectly capable of self healing, we assume that ability and responsibility for them, taking it off their plate. It becomes our job. If it brings you happiness, that's great, but it is not helping the person in a long term sense. 

Helping is allowing others to manage their own issues and discover as part of the process, how to be resilient and how to live. Resilient people survive. Non-resilient people look to someone like you for support. 

You may disagree, which is fine, but it is my truth as I have come to know it. 

I recommend you read this in your own time. It may or may not resinate with you. 

http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

*Re: Custody &amp; Ex Girlfriend - I'm the new girlfriend*



Satya said:


> I know where this comes from because I was like this, too. Let me say that a lesson I learned after years of being selfless is that there is no charity or valor or honor (or insert whatever positive quality you like) in providing what you think is needed, but there is all of that and more in providing what is actually needed.
> 
> When we aid people that are perfectly capable of self healing, we assume that ability and responsibility for them, taking it off their plate. It becomes our job. If it brings you happiness, that's great, but it is not helping the person in a long term sense.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link.

This part:

"Were you raised in a home where everything you did was closely monitored or controlled? Did you grow up feeling as if you had to be perfect, to please your mother or father? What was the cost to you, if (God forbid) you ever failed to behave perfectly? Might you have feared the loss of their affection, approval or love?"

That is so not me at all. My parents were both very loving and I made mistakes all the time. They reassured me that it was ok and we grow and learn from them. 

Anyway, thanks for your words


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ihatethis said:


> The thing is, yes, I am a sponge right now, and I have been for most of the people in my life, my whole life. I have been there for others, when no one else would. I don't look at anything like that a waste of time. Someone needed me and I was there.


YOu know that's not necessarily a good thing, right? People who have Knight In Shining Armor issues are often having issues that they mask by feeling good about themselves by helping others. If it's something you do a lot, you may want to look into it.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> YOu know that's not necessarily a good thing, right? People who have Knight In Shining Armor issues are often having issues that they mask by feeling good about themselves by helping others. If it's something you do a lot, you may want to look into it.


Actually, I am really happy with who I am. I questioned it during my divorce, but I had a lot of time to reflect on it, and I am very happy. I do however, have people in my life who know they can come to me and I am a good listener and it turns into me being there for the people I care most about. My grandmother was the same was, as is my mom, and they were and are the most amazing people I've ever met, and well respected. I don't have anything to be worried about as I do not question who I am, at all.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> YOu know that's not necessarily a good thing, right? People who have Knight In Shining Armor issues are often having issues that they mask by feeling good about themselves by helping others. If it's something you do a lot, you may want to look into it.


Oh and just to clarify, I do not go out seeking for this. But because I am a good listener and do not gossip, people feel comfortable discussing things with me.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's fine. Just making sure you're not giving up what YOU need to make sure other people are getting what THEY need.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

ihatethis said:


> Well, first of all, they were never married. This is just his ex girlfriend. I know he is always going to have this woman in his life because she is the mother of their daughter. I will not put up with the contact that they've been having...


She is not "just" an ex girlfriend. She is the mother of his child. She was his de facto wife. Like it or not, she is far more than just an ex girlfriend. Is she unreasonable? Yes. Is she obstructive and difficult? Sure seems like it. But she's not just an ex girlfriend - if only she were, it would be so much simpler.

I know exactly how you feel OP. I'm a stepmum to my husbands daughter. I've been the girlfriend...the live in girlfriend...the fiance and now I'm the wife. 

My husbands ex would cause him no end of grief while we were dating. I would feel sad and frustrated for him - he didn't require her permission to be a dad. Did I voice my frustrations? No. Because it was NONE OF MY BUSINESS. Back then, I was only a girlfriend. It was nothing to do with me. I supported my then bf, I would listen and comfort him but anything else would have been inappropriate. Custody arrangements for THEIR child were none of my business.

Even when I moved in, I still stayed out of it because I was still only dad's girlfriend. Nothing more. When we became engaged I slowly started to become more involved with my fiance's blessing but only in a supportive role to him, and only when requested. This is when I began to voice my feelings and opinion on what was going on.

Now that I am his wife, and his home is my home - OUR home, I am much more involved, because I refuse to not be consulted about things that affect my day to day life, or that will/will not happen in my home. I have more say with hubby now because I am the wife and she is his ex. I have made it very clear to him, the ex and my stepdaughter that her mother has ZERO say on what goes on in MY home. That is my right as the woman of the house. I have my husband's full support on this.

OP, you're investing far too much energy in drama that was not of your making, over which you have zero control over the outcome and frankly, at this stage no business being involved in. Direct your energy towards your relationship with your bf. Leave the child and ex drama to him to deal with.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

*


frusdil said:



She is not "just" an ex girlfriend. She is the mother of his child. She was his de facto wife. Like it or not, she is far more than just an ex girlfriend. Is she unreasonable? Yes. Is she obstructive and difficult? Sure seems like it. But she's not just an ex girlfriend - if only she were, it would be so much simpler.

Click to expand...

*


frusdil said:


> I was just simply stating, that they were not married.
> 
> I know exactly how you feel OP. I'm a stepmum to my husbands daughter. I've been the girlfriend...the live in girlfriend...the fiance and now I'm the wife.
> 
> ...


I am focusing on being there for him. His ex is bringing me into this, I'm not nor is he. I have been there as a support system for him, I have no desire to be involved in drama. 

Thanks for the advice tho.


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

frusdil said:


> I have made it very clear to him, the ex and my stepdaughter that her mother has ZERO say on what goes on in MY home. That is my right as the woman of the house. I have my husband's full support on this.
> 
> OP, you're investing far too much energy in drama that was not of your making, over which you have zero control over the outcome and frankly, at this stage no business being involved in. Direct your energy towards your relationship with your bf. Leave the child and ex drama to him to deal with.


:iagree: OP as painful as it may be (and I didn't read the entire thread) I think you should let this drop until the ex can learn her place. It's up to your BF to make that happen. Otherwise, things will get much, much worse for you. If you set up house together, make it clear that she has NOTHING to say about what goes on.


----------



## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Omego said:


> :iagree: OP as painful as it may be (and I didn't read the entire thread) I think you should let this drop until the ex can learn her place. It's up to your BF to make that happen. Otherwise, things will get much, much worse for you. If you set up house together, make it clear that she has NOTHING to say about what goes on.


I've taken a step back. Mediation is in 3 days, and I cannot wait. So we will see what happens at that time.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I've taken a step back. Mediation is in 3 days, and I cannot wait. So we will see what happens at that time.


Its very unlikely that this will be handled in a day. Generally custody disputes take some time. Don't be surprised if there is little progress at this first appointment.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Its very unlikely that this will be handled in a day. Generally custody disputes take some time. Don't be surprised if there is little progress at this first appointment.


This. Especially with a high conflict ex as this one appears to be. She seems to enjoy creating drama for drama's sake.

Whether they were married or not is irrelevant OP, she has the same rights as a wife simply due to the fact that they have a child.

If your man doesn't grow a pair, step up and take control of the situation this will be your life going forward...if you stay with him. You will jump from crisis to crisis, with a lull in between until the ex decides to invent some drama. It'll reach the point where you won't be able to fully relax during the good times because you'll be waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Your man must take control of this now, and tell her ENOUGH. The jig is up.


----------

