# GF doesn't want me to touch her butt all of a sudden? WTF?



## Jayg14

GF and I have been dating 2 months, have known each other almost 20 years. So far it's great, especially the sex. We even have a blast chilling at our places (she's a homebody). Out of the blue tonight, while watching a film, I put my hand on her butt. She moved it away. She does playful things out of the blue, I thought it was this time as well. I did it again, and she moved it away, and got upset with me. Now, we were in public today and I touched it, which she liked. I don't get the sudden dislike. Do I need to be alerted to a loss of attraction already, and to move on? If it helps, I voiced my concern that this could lead to a slippery slope (which slid me back into beta mode, I know). She said she likes it other times, just not now. She's also about to get her period.


----------



## Betrayedone

Fix it right now or move on.....There's likely more trouble like this to follow.


----------



## Jayg14

Betrayedone said:


> Fix it right now or move on.....There's likely more trouble like this to follow.


Suggestions on how to fix it?


----------



## Catherine602

It's early in the relationship and you are getting to know each other's likes and dislikes. As you get to know her and she you, you will know when she wants to be touched. Then you won't be confused or concerned. Sometimes a touch feels good and sometimes the same touch does not. She is not rejecting you, she is voicing a preference. 

If she is otherwise loving and pleasant, don't be concerned. Put this away with all of the things you are learning and evaluate how important it is when you have more data points. It may be a red flag but maybe not. Keep your eyes open and remember dating is a trial period.

It seems as if you need to work on your self-confidence. You don't want to appear insecure by getting upset over little things. I wouldn't bring up the touch thing unless it becomes a big issue then discuss it from the standpoint of what you want in terms of respectful communication. Don't ask if she is still attracted thats too weak sounding. 

No reason to break up or react too strongly or nip anything in the bud. Enjoy your relationship and be calm and in control of your emotions.


----------



## Jayg14

Catherine602 said:


> It's early in the relationship and you are getting to know each other's likes and dislikes. As you get to know her and she you, you will know when she wants to be touched. Then you won't be confused or concerned. Sometimes a touch feels good and sometimes the same touch does not. She is not rejecting you, she is voicing a preference.
> 
> If she is otherwise loving and pleasant, don't be concerned. Put this away with all of the things you are learning and evaluate how important it is when you have more data points. It may be a red flag but maybe not. Keep your eyes open and remember dating is a trial period.
> 
> It seems as if you need to work on your self-confidence. You don't want to appear insecure by getting upset over little things. I wouldn't bring up the touch thing unless it becomes a big issue then discuss it from the standpoint of what you want in terms of respectful communication. Don't ask if she is still attracted thats too weak sounding.
> 
> No reason to break up or react too strongly or nip anything in the bud. Enjoy your relationship and be calm and in control of your emotions.



Thank you. Just seems sudden that she isn't okay with it hours later.


----------



## Catherine602

Jayg14 said:


> Thank you. Just seems sudden that she isn't okay with it hours later.


It's not unusual @Jayg14, women are more tactually sensitive than men on average. It varies with menses cycle too. It seems sudden because you have not known her long enough intimately to see a pattern. 

Also, she may just not want to have her butt touched at that moment. Maybe it was getting sore? It's ok for her to have a preference as long as she states it sensitively and respectfully. 

It's important not to get into a pattern where she becomes inhibited about telling you what she wants because your feelings will be hurt. That sets up an atmosphere where she may experience something she does not like and feel she can't tell you. 

Thats one reason some women avoid sex. They can't tell a too sensitive partner about their preferences. 

Are you usually a confident person in relationships?


----------



## BlueWoman

Me personally, I have times when I enjoy have my butt touched and other times when it feels weird. And it's truly a physical thing, not emotional. My butt will occasionally get crazily ticklish and I can't stand for it to be touched. And then it's not. I have no idea. But my general rule is not to let someone do something to me if it doesn't feel good. I don't ever want to grin and bear it when it comes to physical affection. 

I'm with @Catherine602 I wouldn't worry about this. I don't know if it's normal, I just know experience the same thing and it has nothing to do with my feelings about my SO or even my thoughts about my butt being touched. Sometimes it just feels weird.


----------



## Jayg14

Catherine602 said:


> Are you usually a confident person in relationships?


I am, but things that pop up out of the blue (in life in general) put me on guard.


----------



## Wolf1974

Just out of curiosity are you paying for the sins of the past? In other words did someone else do something she didn't like and now she is blaming you for it?

Could be nothing but could be something. The whole purpose of dating is to discover how compatible you are. Just pay attention moving forward on how this plays out.


----------



## *Deidre*

I don't see it as a big deal, really. I know it may seem personal, but if she's getting her period, her body may feel off. I know mine does during that time, and sometimes, I love to be touched, and others times, it feels irritating. It's a strange time for hormones, so maybe just keep an eye on it and if it continues outside of her period time, and before long, it's constant, then maybe concern would make sense. Hope it isn't anything.


----------



## NextTimeAround

At some point with my husband, I could be more open about when I didn't feel clean and just simply tell him "I wouldn't put my hand there if I were you."

Have you reached that point with your girlfriend?


----------



## Blondilocks

While in public, she knew it would not be leading to sex. In private, she didn't want to accept the touch if she didn't want it leading to sex. So, did you have sex that night?


----------



## Cooper

I dont see how this is a big deal. She was enjoying a movie, last thing she wanted at that moment was for you to start pawing at her trying to have sex. Maybe she's trying to gauge your relationship and see if you have enough in common to just enjoy being with one another or if the relationship is simply lust based.


----------



## norajane

Jayg14 said:


> GF and I have been dating 2 months, have known each other almost 20 years. So far it's great, especially the sex. We even have a blast chilling at our places (she's a homebody). Out of the blue tonight, while watching a film, I put my hand on her butt. She moved it away. She does playful things out of the blue, I thought it was this time as well. I did it again, and she moved it away, and got upset with me. Now, we were in public today and I touched it, which she liked. I don't get the sudden dislike. Do I need to be alerted to a loss of attraction already, and to move on? If it helps, I voiced my concern that this could lead to a slippery slope (which slid me back into beta mode, I know). *She said she likes it other times, just not now.* She's also about to get her period.


You've known her 20 years. Is it so impossible for you to take her words at face value? She told you she likes it other times, but that time was not one of them. What is the big deal? Is she required to like every single touch no matter what every time or you will wonder if she has lost attraction? That seems like a highly insecure way to have a relationship if your first thought to the slightest thing is that she has lost attraction.


----------



## Jayg14

Thanks for the responses, everyone. She apologized later, she wasn't feeling well as a result of her period. I told her that she can tell me these things.
@norajane - I've gone through a divorce and since reading up on the red pill and how I need to read signs, it's prudent to be on the lookout for stuff like this.


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> While in public, she knew it would not be leading to sex. In private, she didn't want to accept the touch if she didn't want it leading to sex. So, did you have sex that night?


No, but we did the next morning. Twice


----------



## Evinrude58

She didn't want you to feel her pad or whatever, or was just in a crazy mood. That's all. SOunds like you have a great girl, with the apology and all. 
Hang on to her.


----------



## Yosemite

She had just taken a 5 pound dump and the last thing she wanted was your hand anywhere near the exit door.

Yes it's that simple.


----------



## MattMatt

Betrayedone said:


> Fix it right now or move on.....There's likely more trouble like this to follow.


Really? She doesn't want to be distracted from watching the TV or doesn't feel in the mood and he should move on? :wtf:


----------



## Jayg14

Thank you everyone. Appreciate the responses. Now I have another issue: we haven't been together three months, and she goes on vacation this week with her girlfriend (plans made before we started dating). When she gets back, it'll have been 3 weeks since we will have had sex. I've never dated a girl where I've gone this long without sex in the first six months of a relationship. And this is a girl who tells me often how attracted to me she is. Starting to get more red flags, methinks...


----------



## Wolf1974

Jayg14 said:


> Thank you everyone. Appreciate the responses. Now I have another issue: we haven't been together three months, and she goes on vacation this week with her girlfriend (plans made before we started dating). When she gets back, it'll have been 3 weeks since we will have had sex. I've never dated a girl where I've gone this long without sex in the first six months of a relationship. And this is a girl who tells me often how attracted to me she is. Starting to get more red flags, methinks...


I don't understand.. Why are you not asking her these things? These seem like pretty simple conversations to have. Are you afraid of her?

Hey last night I tried to touch your butt and you moved away. Something wrong?
Hey it's been three weeks since we had sex what's the deal?

This woman or any woman can't mind read and without information no way they can know this is bothering you. 

Why are you afraid to ask some simple questions?


----------



## Mr. Nail

Naw it's more simple than all that. She has obviously been reading this thread. I'm afraid she knows everything now.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Jayg14 said:


> Thank you everyone. Appreciate the responses. Now I have another issue: we haven't been together three months, and she goes on vacation this week with her girlfriend (plans made before we started dating). When she gets back, it'll have been 3 weeks since we will have had sex. I've never dated a girl where I've gone this long without sex in the first six months of a relationship. And this is a girl who tells me often how attracted to me she is. Starting to get more red flags, methinks...


Wait until she gets back and see if she jumps you first thing. If not, she's not as in to you as you are in to her. And pay attention to how often she contacts you while she's gone. If you go a day or two without hearing from her at all I'd just go ahead and start looking again.


----------



## Jayg14

Wolf1974 said:


> I don't understand.. Why are you not asking her these things? These seem like pretty simple conversations to have. Are you afraid of her?
> 
> Hey last night I tried to touch your butt and you moved away. Something wrong?
> Hey it's been three weeks since we had sex what's the deal?
> 
> This woman or any woman can't mind read and without information no way they can know this is bothering you.
> 
> Why are you afraid to ask some simple questions?


The butt thing was handled a while ago, not long after I posted.

As for the 3 week drought, she had to work early today and was gone before I could get up and talk to her about it. She often wakes me up in the middle of the night for sex, so I waited to see if that would happen. It didn't, so we will chat Thursday if I see her.

Also, I'm trying to come up with a way to not come off as whining or needy when we discuss it. Per Red Pill and MMSL, I'm taking a big risk talking about this so early in the relationship.


----------



## Jayg14

The reason I am making a big deal of this is:

1) I have already told her regular sex is a big part of what I look for in a relationship
2) She tells me often how attracted to me she is
3) She tells me feels safe and loves being with me
4) I haven't done anything to turn her off - her words

With all of this, I cannot fathom why I'll be going three weeks without it so soon in our relationship. Yes, I need to talk to her about it, but any ideas I can get now can only help.


----------



## Wolf1974

Jayg14 said:


> The butt thing was handled a while ago, not long after I posted.
> 
> As for the 3 week drought, she had to work early today and was gone before I could get up and talk to her about it. She often wakes me up in the middle of the night for sex, so I waited to see if that would happen. It didn't, so we will chat Thursday if I see her.
> 
> Also, I'm trying to come up with a way to not come off as whining or needy when we discuss it. Per Red Pill and MMSL, I'm taking a big risk talking about this so early in the relationship.


I disagree with the approach. This is exactly when you need to take a straight and direct approach. We teach people how to treat us. Now is the formation of how your relationship, however long it will last, will operate. Calling things on the spot shows that are aware and in the moment. That you won't let Things fester, that the expectation is open and honest communication. 

Just my opinion and I understand this is your relationship so do as you see fit. I think the real risk is not talking about these things immediately
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Wolf1974 said:


> I disagree with the approach. This is exactly when you need to take a straight and direct approach. We teach people how to treat us. Now is the formation of how your relationship, however long it will last, will operate. Calling things on the spot shows that are aware and in the moment. That you won't let Things fester, that the expectation is open and honest communication.
> 
> Just my opinion and I understand this is your relationship so do as you see fit. I think the real risk is not talking about these things immediately
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. I agree with this. It's all in how I approach it, as to whether I sound needy or not.


----------



## Begin again

Yeah, you've know her 20 years and one time she moves your hand off her butt and you immediately go to TAM for advice. Sounds a bit premature and insecure. Also, to tell her this was a "slippery slope?" That wouldn't sit well with me. It's her body and you are invited to it, but not entitled to it. Act like the latter and you will get cut off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Yeah, you've know her 20 years and one time she moves your hand off her butt and you immediately go to TAM for advice. Sounds a bit premature and insecure. Also, to tell her this was a "slippery slope?" That wouldn't sit well with me. It's her body and you are invited to it, but not entitled to it. Act like the latter and you will get cut off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree it comes off as insecure. Like I said, I've never had this issue with a woman I've dated before within 6 months of a relationship, let alone 2. Took me off guard, and I need to make sure it's not something I'm doing to turn her off.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> I agree it comes off as insecure. Like I said, I've never had this issue with a woman I've dated before within 6 months of a relationship, let alone 2. Took me off guard, and I need to make sure it's not something I'm doing to turn her off.


She may not feel comfortable asking for you to be more aware. Like, what was the movie? You trying to touch her butt during Shindler's List? Or did she have a bad day and just needed some cuddle time? 

Not saying be a doormat or let the sex slide... Just be aware of what is going on with her and between the two of you. Context matters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane

Jayg14 said:


> Thanks for the responses, everyone. She apologized later, she wasn't feeling well as a result of her period. I told her that she can tell me these things.
> 
> @*norajane* - I've gone through a divorce and since reading up on the red pill and how I need to read signs, it's prudent to be on the lookout for stuff like this.


Red pill is full of hateful rhetoric and sees women as enemies. Be careful not to fall into the trap of seeing her as your enemy and as though she is working against you. There are often much less nefarious motives for people's behaviors (like taking your hand off her butt just then) than what red pill followers believe (she's about to trick you into marrying her because she's after your money even though she's not attracted to you ). Do not dwell in bitter red pill land or you will end up alone. Reading signs based on what unhappy red pill guys think the signs mean is a recipe for disaster. Do your own thinking - you've known this woman 20 years, you know her better than the guys on red pill do.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Are you going to spend the rest of your life over analyzing every second?


----------



## Begin again

I predict you will pressure her about this, she will turn off the tap, and the relationship will end. This girl will wake you in the middle of the night to have sex, but that isn't enough of a security blanket for you.

What do you do for her? Are you a good lover? Are you a strong yet considerate man? You sound like you have a history that is tainting your present relationship. You will mess this one up quickly if you don't get that in check.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Not saying be a doormat or let the sex slide... Just be aware of what is going on with her and between the two of you. Context matters.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's the point of this whole thread. Am I being a doormat, over-analyzing, what? I am concerned because we are not 3 months in and already I have a 3-week dry spell, which I've never had this soon in a relationship before. If this starts now, what will a year from now look like? I spent most of my marriage sexless, and at age 38, I've got a dozen good years left for sex. If I let this slide now, I'm doomed.


----------



## Jayg14

Jayg14 said:


> That's the point of this whole thread. Am I being a doormat, over-analyzing, what? I am concerned because we are not 3 months in and already I have a 3-week dry spell, which I've never had this soon in a relationship before. If this starts now, what will a year from now look like? I spent most of my marriage sexless, and at age 38, I've got a dozen good years left for sex. If I let this slide now, I'm doomed.





NobodySpecial said:


> Are you going to spend the rest of your life over analyzing every second?


When things happen this soon in a relationship that have never happened before, yes.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Begin again said:


> It's her body and you are invited to it, but
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


if you are not invited you are free to break off the relationship. 

That is the proper end to that statement. And it is the truth in any relationship. Yes everyone has the right to control access to their own body. And everyone has an *equal* right to choose the relationships they will be in. Or in other words we have the agency to chose our actions, we do not have the authority to dictate the *consequences* of those actions.


----------



## NextTimeAround

one other possibility since you mentioned watching a movie at the moment, Iand mydate were watching a movie that had a rape scene...... and that's when he started making the moves on me. I told him had to wait until the film was over.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> I predict you will pressure her about this, she will turn off the tap, and the relationship will end. This girl will wake you in the middle of the night to have sex, but that isn't enough of a security blanket for you.
> 
> What do you do for her? Are you a good lover? Are you a strong yet considerate man? You sound like you have a history that is tainting your present relationship. You will mess this one up quickly if you don't get that in check.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She tells me I'm a great lover. Her words: I make her feel safe, I'm funny, I don't take advantage of her. 

I do have a history. My wife left me 5 years ago. I'm trying not to be a doormat, to stand up for myself and needs, but not go too far. And again, I've never had a 3-week dryspell within 6 months of a relationship before, so this is worrying to me.


----------



## Mr. Nail

NobodySpecial said:


> Are you going to spend the rest of your life over analyzing every second?


Once Bitten, Twice Shy

I want to voice my support of the OP's analysis. There are several possible explanations for her behavior, some of them are hard to live with, including but not limited to:
She enjoys the power play of being a gatekeeper.
She is not mature enough to handle her PMS symptoms and a relationship on the same day.
Her drive level is not what she says it is. (bait and switch)
She changes her mind so often that affirmative consent is impossible to obtain.

Yes a smart Dater would analyze.


----------



## Begin again

Mr. Nail said:


> if you are not invited you are free to break off the relationship.
> 
> That is the proper end to that statement. And it is the truth in any relationship. Yes everyone has the right to control access to their own body. And everyone has an *equal* right to choose the relationships they will be in. Or in other words we have the agency to chose our actions, we do not have the authority to dictate the *consequences* of those actions.


So, is a woman entitled to be in every personal space her man has? He must share all his secrets? Must let her in on all his outings with his buds? No, of course not. There are times, for whatever reason, that he's not invited into her space at that moment. Now, that does not mean he's uninvited to all future sexual activities. It's to say in this context at this time she didn't want what he wanted.

Of course, you can just put your foot down and let her know that you are entitled to her body whenever you want because you two are dating or suffer the consequences. I think we all know how that will go over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NextTimeAround

Begin again said:


> So, is a woman entitled to be in every personal space her man has? He must share all his secrets? Must let her in on all his outings with his buds? No, of course not. There are times, for whatever reason, that he's not invited into her space at that moment. Now, that does not mean he's uninvited to all future sexual activities. It's to say in this context at this time she didn't want what he wanted.
> 
> Of course, you can just put your foot down and let her know that you are entitled to her body whenever you want because you two are dating or suffer the consequences. I think we all know how that will go over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes to all the questions that you asked above.

You just have to keep looking for the guy who will agree to it.


----------



## Begin again

NextTimeAround said:


> yes to all the questions that you asked above.
> 
> You just have to keep looking for the guy who will agree to it.


Really? So two months into a dating relationship and the woman is entitled to go on the annual boys weekend with your friends? You must tell her every secret you have? Interesting.

Men - is this how you see relationships? All open door to all things all the time? Nothing is personal anymore?

Or is it that if she's good to go for hot sex whenever you want it and never says no, you will gladly give up all your personal time/guy time/secrets? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Really? So two months into a dating relationship and the woman is entitled to go on the annual boys weekend with your friends? You must tell her every secret you have? Interesting.
> 
> Men - is this how you see relationships? All open door to all things all the time? Nothing is personal anymore?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't see it that way at all.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> I don't see it that way at all.


Good for you. Having a relationship doesn't mean you have no boundaries. You should. And you should have your own space.

Look - just talk to her. Tell her you miss being intimate and hope you can again soon because you want to feel close to her. If she turns you down then, you know there is a problem. Next is to find out what it is, if you really care about her. If she's not worth it, then move on. But these guys who keep telling you to jump to conclusions? Ignore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Livvie

Does everyone who is replying remember that the 3 weeks no sex INCLUDES the time she will be away on a vacation?


----------



## Begin again

Livvie said:


> Does everyone who is replying remember that the 3 weeks no sex INCLUDES the time she will be away on a vacation?


OP - you have said things like "I'm doomed" and "I am 38 and have a dozen good years of sex left."

You have some serious baggage that will impact you if you don't handle this. Have you dated anyone after your divorce and before this current girl? If so, did your bad marriage affect that relationship? If so, what did you learn and did you take steps to fix yourself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr. Nail

OK @Begin again , Let me express this simple point in the most simple and non gendered way. Then we can move on to cases. People have all kinds of needs and boundaries in relationships, Dating is a process to determine if those needs and boundaries are compatible with ours. if one person has a need that is restricted by the other persons boundary then that couple is not compatible and all the rights in world will not make them happy together. 

So if one person has a need for physical touch, and another person has a boundary restricting physical touch. Then they are not compatible. The need is not bad, the boundary is not bad, the incompatibility leads to frustration on both parts and unhappiness for both people.

So if one person has a need for security in the form of consistency, and the other person has a need to capriciously erect temporary boundaries, then they are not compatible they will be frustrated and unhappy. Not because one was right and the other was wrong. but because their needs could not exist together in the same relationship.

So if one person has a need for private space and time and / or friends, and the other person had a boundary that x percentage of all time must be shared. or a boundary that there will be no secrets, or a no G/B NO boundary. then they are incompatible and both will be frustrated and unhappy. Not because any of those needs or boundaries are bad, but because they conflict.

So yes in a relationship that is going to last there has to be compatibility. You cannot force anyone to accept your needs or boundaries. There are no universal needs or boundaries. Perhaps there should be, but in reality, there are none.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Begin again said:


> Really? *So two months into a dating relationship and the woman is entitled to go on the annual boys weekend with your friends?* You must tell her every secret you have? Interesting.
> 
> Men - is this how you see relationships? All open door to all things all the time? Nothing is personal anymore?
> 
> Or is it that if she's good to go for hot sex whenever you want it and never says no, you will gladly give up all your personal time/guy time/secrets?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


the key here is to find someone who agrees with you on all fronts......


----------



## Begin again

So, a woman saying I don't want you to touch my butt right now is "capriciously erecting temporary boundaries?" My goodness! Doesn't matter what is going on with her, context is nonexistent. Really? So, if you bought her a nice present one day, she should expect one every day, right? You did it yesterday! Who cares what reasons you have - they are sudden and unaccountable to me, even if they aren't to you. 

SMH.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Begin again

NextTimeAround said:


> the key here is to find someone who agrees with you on all fronts......


No one will agree with you in all fronts. If they do, they are lying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NextTimeAround

Begin again said:


> No one will agree with you in all fronts. If they do, they are lying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


okay, on an adequate number of fronts. In any case, if you don't agree you have to move on.

If your partner insists on having a special friend that you believe is toxic to the relationship that you have with your partner, well, you have to move on. 

If you don't like the fact that he leaves his toenails on the floor, well ,maybe you'll take a view....


----------



## Begin again

NextTimeAround said:


> okay, on an adequate number of fronts. In any case, if you don't agree you have to move on.
> 
> If your partner insists on having a special friend that you believe is toxic to the relationship that you have with your partner, well, you have to move on.
> 
> If you don't like the fact that he leaves his toenails on the floor, well ,maybe you'll take a view....


Compatibility and compromise without losing your boundaries. Absolutely. 

Ultimatums on sex? Uh... That gives you no sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr. Nail

Yes in deed that is erecting a capricious boundary, and this is certainly a good time to figure out why that is. Capricious withholding is a serious relationship wrecker. In this case it turned out that she was unable to deal with her regular monthly period and have a relationship at the same time. This is no problem at 16. At thirty it's a red flag for many. 

I have not said that anyone is not entitled to any need or boundary. I believe boundaries are healthy. For some reason you seem to think that only certain boundaries are allowable.

And, "Don't touch me" is not an ultimatum on sex???


----------



## Begin again

Mr. Nail said:


> Yes in deed that is erecting a capricious boundary, and this is certainly a good time to figure out why that is. Capricious withholding is a serious relationship wrecker. In this case it turned out that she was unable to deal with her regular monthly period and have a relationship at the same time. This is no problem at 16. At thirty it's a red flag for many.
> 
> I have not said that anyone is not entitled to any need or boundary. I believe boundaries are healthy. For some reason you seem to think that only certain boundaries are allowable.


You of all people should be able to appreciate what a shift in hormones does to a person. Some women have stronger PMS than others. She just asked that his hand not be on her butt and he's the one out of line? Give me a break!

How's this - and get ready for TMI - I have very heavy periods to the point that it causes me many issues on those days. If my man said to me that we must have sex on those days because I'm his girlfriend and he's entitled, I'd make d--- sure the door hit his a-- on the way out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr. Nail

Of all people I understand that with time a person should be able to learn how to deal with hormonal shifts, because I did. And it took less than a decade. And I didn't have a support group to guide me and and and.

She left him wondering, she left him hanging. She did this because she was unable to talk to him about it. She was unable to say "not there, here". Perhaps they have managed to break that boundary now. Perhaps they can communicate about things that adult people deal with all the time. OP will figure that out soon enough. But there are no free passes in dating. You are there to present your best self. If a man finds a woman's best self inadequate to his needs he should not be shamed for questioning or even ending the relationship. Certainly you would allow a woman the same privilege. 

You seem to think this is some kind of ultimatum or entitlement. Perform or else! well isn't that always the case? Be faithful or else! Be employed or else! Be hygienic or else! All I'm really asking for is be compatible or I won't be interested. What is so hard about that?

Here is the real entitlement. He is entitled to finding a relationship in which he is happy. She has no entitlement to a continued relationship at the cost of his happiness.


----------



## Begin again

Mr. Nail said:


> Of all people I understand that with time a person should be able to learn how to deal with hormonal shifts, because I did. And it took less than a decade. And I didn't have a support group to guide me and and and.
> 
> She left him wondering, she left him hanging. She did this because she was unable to talk to him about it. She was unable to say "not there, here". Perhaps they have managed to break that boundary now. Perhaps they can communicate about things that adult people deal with all the time. OP will figure that out soon enough. But there are no free passes in dating. You are there to present your best self. If a man finds a woman's best self inadequate to his needs he should not be shamed for questioning or even ending the relationship. Certainly you would allow a woman the same privilege.
> 
> You seem to think this is some kind of ultimatum or entitlement. Perform or else! well isn't that always the case? Be faithful or else! Be employed or else! Be hygienic or else! All I'm really asking for is be compatible or I won't be interested. What is so hard about that?
> 
> Here is the real entitlement. He is entitled to finding a relationship in which he is happy. She has no entitlement to a continued relationship at the cost of his happiness.


i won't get too personal, mr. Nail, but I will ask you to go back and read some of your old posts. You do not have consistent control over your emotions, hormone fluctuations or no. So please give this a rest. 

And OP - sorry for the thread jack. I hope you can continue to have a good relationship and not worry so much about the "what if's!" After all, you are free to leave at any time. You aren't married to her. Communicate! Use this relationship as your opportunity to move past your issues, not get mired in them. The choice is yours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> OP - you have said things like "I'm doomed" and "I am 38 and have a dozen good years of sex left."
> 
> You have some serious baggage that will impact you if you don't handle this. Have you dated anyone after your divorce and before this current girl? If so, did your bad marriage affect that relationship? If so, what did you learn and did you take steps to fix yourself?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1) yes, the three weeks counts the time she's away. So what? A healthy, loving relationship should entail sex every 2-3 days minimum, IMO. This drought is 18 days longer than it should be, IMO

2) Yes. The first one after my divorce wanted to blend families and move in...after 5 months. My ex, though living an hour away, was what I considered a perfect relationship. There were two weekends we were together that we didn't have sex in the 3 years we were together..she had the flu both times. She got her dream job and moved to the Midwest. I have kids so I couldn't go.

3) I can be pretty frank with my parents and an aunt/uncle regarding topics like this. I also have a mentor who is frank with me. Due to job changes, health issues, and family stuff, sex lives for all three couples after 50, while still present, wane significantly. And they are all married upwards of 20 years. I am not that special, why should I expect anything different? Best get to sexing while I am young, virile and capable.


----------



## Lila

OP, sounds like you're trying to justify dumping this woman for a lack of sex. Just dump her. You don't need to justify staying in a relationship especially since it's only 3 months old. 

Next time, find yourself a woman who is sexually compatible

Sent from mobile using Tapatalk


----------



## Begin again

As of today it's been two weeks without sex. How many times have you two been together, in private, during that time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

3


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> 3


Ok. And were any of those times while she was having her period? I believe she said PMS was to blame for her "please don't touch my butt" moment, and then you had sex twice the following day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Not this time, no. She did start a new job, but she's home by 3 and naps before I come over.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> Not this time, no. She did start a new job, but she's home by 3 and naps before I come over.


Ok, so you saw her 3 times since she last had her period and didn't have sex any of those times. 

And if she just started a new job, does she also have a change of schedule? Coming home at 3 and napping says to me she does shift work. Does she have kids?

The one and only noble choice I can see here is tell her what you've told us. Tell her you were in a sexless marriage and it's starting to feel like that now. Because that is your truth.

Now, if the guy told me that and I really liked him, we would fix things. If I didn't really like him, I would cut him loose. That's just me. You are too worked up over seeing her 3 times and not getting sex those 3 times. Sorry, I think you are. You are worrying and hand wringing and analyzing this relationship to death.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane

> 1) yes, the three weeks counts the time she's away. So what? A healthy, loving relationship should entail sex every 2-3 days minimum, IMO. This drought is 18 days longer than it should be, IMO


They've only been dating a couple months. That's hardly enough time to establish a "healthy, loving relationship." It's barely a start.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> OP - you have said things like "I'm doomed" and "I am 38 and have a dozen good years of sex left."
> 
> You have some serious baggage that will impact you if you don't handle this. Have you dated anyone after your divorce and before this current girl? If so, did your bad marriage affect that relationship? If so, what did you learn and did you take steps to fix yourself?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





norajane said:


> They've only been dating a couple months. That's hardly enough time to establish a "healthy, loving relationship." It's barely a start.



In every relationship I've had since I lost my virginity, I've never gone more than 1-2 days without this early in a relationship. It's jarring that it's different this time.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Ok, so you saw her 3 times since she last had her period and didn't have sex any of those times.
> 
> And if she just started a new job, does she also have a change of schedule? Coming home at 3 and napping says to me she does shift work. Does she have kids?
> 
> The one and only noble choice I can see here is tell her what you've told us. Tell her you were in a sexless marriage and it's starting to feel like that now. Because that is your truth.
> 
> Now, if the guy told me that and I really liked him, we would fix things. If I didn't really like him, I would cut him loose. That's just me. You are too worked up over seeing her 3 times and not getting sex those 3 times. Sorry, I think you are. You are worrying and hand wringing and analyzing this relationship to death.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She does not have kids. I appreciate the honesty. If I get to see her tomorrow, I will bring it up. If not, then we discuss when she gets back and go from there.


----------



## Yeswecan

Jayg14 said:


> GF and I have been dating 2 months, have known each other almost 20 years. So far it's great, especially the sex. We even have a blast chilling at our places (she's a homebody). Out of the blue tonight, while watching a film, I put my hand on her butt. She moved it away. She does playful things out of the blue, I thought it was this time as well. I did it again, and she moved it away, and got upset with me. Now, we were in public today and I touched it, which she liked. I don't get the sudden dislike. Do I need to be alerted to a loss of attraction already, and to move on? If it helps, I voiced my concern that this could lead to a slippery slope (which slid me back into beta mode, I know). She said she likes it other times, just not now.* She's also about to get her period.*



My W of 21 years has told me that during that time she does not want to be touched.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> She does not have kids. I appreciate the honesty. If I get to see her tomorrow, I will bring it up. If not, then we discuss when she gets back and go from there.


Awesome. Start from a place of honesty and openness and the relationship can prosper. Now, it may also end and if that's the case, then maybe that is for the best. But the "dump her" crowd isn't one to listen to. Take the high road. You will figure it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane

Jayg14 said:


> In every relationship I've had since I lost my virginity, I've never gone more than 1-2 days without this early in a relationship. It's jarring that it's different this time.


That has not been my experience in my past relationships or with my partner, and maybe has not been hers, either. Personally, I think that's way too much sex at the start. Lots of sex has a way of changing focus from "developing" a solid relationship to just "when are we getting together to have sex???!" People get too involved based on the post-orgasm brain chemicals and seek those sex chemical hits rather than seeking to understand each other emotionally and intellectually (and spiritually, for some people). *

Flings *are about constant sex because that's all that's holding you together. Healthy, loving relationships involve more than constant sex, and it's hard to develop that something more if all you're doing is having sex.

TALK to her and find out what her real views are about sex rather than assuming things based on your past relationships (none of which have actually been successful relationships, right?). And please, please, if you can't find anything compelling about this relationship except for sex, please end it. Because all you worry about is sex and how much of it you are getting. I haven't seen you post about whether you are compatible, have lots to talk about, are connecting on an emotional level, enjoy each other's interests, or anything else about her except what you want sexually.


----------



## TAMAT

JayG,

A few things to consider.

What do you know about this GFs past. Particularly her sexual past.

Does she keep in contact with Ex’es to any extent.

The timing of the sexual stoppage is curious, what went on during this vacation was it a girls gone wild kind of trip. Absence should make the heart grow fonder, or fonder of someone else.

Is the friend she took the vacation with a negative influence.

Although she likes that you respect her and sees you as a long term prospect, there is a chance that she is only turned on by men that abuse her. Once the initial exhilaration of your goodness wears off she may long for others.

I’m not sure you want to tip your hand yet, if you complain about the lack of sex now it could lead to her turning it on just enough to keep you attached.

Tamat


----------



## norajane

OP said SHE WAKES HIM UP TO HAVE SEX.

I'm pretty damned sure that means she is attracted to him, for pete's sake.


----------



## WorkingWife

Jayg14 said:


> Thank you. Just seems sudden that she isn't okay with it hours later.


When a person is receptive to being touched a certain way in public, but not in private, it's often because they feel safe that it won't go any further in public but not in private.

So possibly her thought in public is:
"Ha, he thinks I'm sexy and he likes my butt and he's paying attention to me and I like that."

But in private, at that moment, it may have been:
"He's grabbing my butt. He wants sex. I don't want sex right now. I'm going to shut this down before he gets turned on."

or maybe:

"I've been beside him all evening and he hasn't touched me. Now he just reaches over and grabs my butt? WTF?"

I would ask her about it. Try to make it safe for her to be honest. You say the sex is great but maybe that is not her same experience, or maybe she doesn't want it as often.


----------



## norajane

WorkingWife said:


> When a person is receptive to being touched a certain way in public, but not in private, it's often because they feel safe that it won't go any further in public but not in private.
> 
> So possibly her thought in public is:
> "Ha, he thinks I'm sexy and he likes my butt and he's paying attention to me and I like that."
> 
> But in private, at that moment, it may have been:
> "He's grabbing my butt. He wants sex. I don't want sex right now. I'm going to shut this down before he gets turned on."
> 
> or maybe:
> 
> "I've been beside him all evening and he hasn't touched me. Now he just reaches over and grabs my butt? WTF?"
> 
> I would ask her about it. Try to make it safe for her to be honest. You say the sex is great but maybe that is not her same experience, or maybe she doesn't want it as often.


He did (finally) ask her, after first assuming the worst and writing to TAM about it. She was PMSing that day and didn't want to be touched.


----------



## Jayg14

norajane said:


> That has not been my experience in my past relationships or with my partner, and maybe has not been hers, either. Personally, I think that's way too much sex at the start. Lots of sex has a way of changing focus from "developing" a solid relationship to just "when are we getting together to have sex???!" People get too involved based on the post-orgasm brain chemicals and seek those sex chemical hits rather than seeking to understand each other emotionally and intellectually (and spiritually, for some people). *
> 
> Flings *are about constant sex because that's all that's holding you together. Healthy, loving relationships involve more than constant sex, and it's hard to develop that something more if all you're doing is having sex.
> 
> TALK to her and find out what her real views are about sex rather than assuming things based on your past relationships (none of which have actually been successful relationships, right?). And please, please, if you can't find anything compelling about this relationship except for sex, please end it. Because all you worry about is sex and how much of it you are getting. * I haven't seen you post about whether you are compatible, have lots to talk about, are connecting on an emotional level, enjoy each other's interests, *or anything else about her except what you want sexually.


Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate it. You've given me some food for thought. Regarding the part in bold, this is a very big, satisfying part of the relationship. They are great and don't need questioning. The sex (or lack thereof) does.


----------



## Jayg14

norajane said:


> He did (finally) ask her, after* first assuming the worst* and writing to TAM about it. She was PMSing that day and didn't want to be touched.


I've done this my whole life, especially after my divorce, which blindsided me.


----------



## Mr. Nail

I'm really struggling to nail down the time line on this. is this a sudden drop off of sexual activity? Or a yo yo. up and down off one night on the next morning. The trouble with the whole vacation thing is that it was set up and paid for before the relationship started. So it isn't part of the pattern but an interruption of the pattern. I do agree that Jay will know much more when she returns.


----------



## Jayg14

It's sudden. The last weekend together we had sex A LOT. Since then, nothing. 3 weekday visits and no sex.

Also, what do you mean emotional connection? People define it differently.


----------



## Miss Independent

.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> I've done this my whole life, especially after my divorce, which blindsided me.


You assume the worst first? Why? And don't blame your past relationship since you said you've always done so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blondilocks

You've seen her only 3 times in the last 2 weeks. How come? Why no sex during those 3 times?

Do you expect her to cancel her vacation plans so you can possibly hook up maybe once during that time?

You normally expect sex every couple of days when new in a relationship. So, just how many times have the two of you had sex during your entire two month relationship?


----------



## Begin again

Blondilocks said:


> You've seen her only 3 times in the last 2 weeks. How come? Why no sex during those 3 times?
> 
> Do you expect her to cancel her vacation plans so you can possibly hook up maybe once during that time?
> 
> You normally expect sex every couple of days when new in a relationship. So, just how many times have the two of you had sex during your entire two month relationship?


I'm curious why he didn't see her the entire time she has her period. Sure hope it wasn't because you couldn't have sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Begin again

Think we should also consider that around this time a smart woman will ask herself if she's feeling what she wants to feel about a new man. Are they growing closer? Does she see things progressing with him, or is he just a fun guy and no more? Because she shouldn't let it keep going if her feelings aren't growing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon

Jayg14 said:


> Thank you. Just seems sudden that she isn't okay with it hours later.


My GF loves my touch, however she also has nerve pain (in her case from an injury) and there are times when she simply cannot handle any external stimulation. My point is that I have learned that there are indeed times when a touch even from someone we love and respect is unwanted. It may not be rejection at all, like Catherine said, she is simply expressing her preference.

Of course there may be more too it, she could have fear or uncertainty that you have further intentions, or perhaps she feels objectified when you do this, and when you talk with her about this you will know more about what she's feeling and thinking.


----------



## Jayg14

Yes, because we see each other once a week and every other weekend. Neither of our jobs are stressful and we usually ang out (she's a homebody). There's no reason for me to not be In the mood, and same for her IMO.


----------



## Jayg14

"I'm curious why he didn't see her the entire time she has her period. Sure hope it wasn't because you couldn't have sex." When did I say this!


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> You've seen her only 3 times in the last 2 weeks. How come? Why no sex during those 3 times?
> 
> Do you expect her to cancel her vacation plans so you can possibly hook up maybe once during that time?
> 
> You normally expect sex every couple of days when new in a relationship. So, just how many times have the two of you had sex during your entire two month relationship?


I had my kids an extra weekend d/t the holiday. 

No because she paid for it and flight is nonrefundable.

Save for the last two weeks, A LOT. When we do it, it's frequent.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> "I'm curious why he didn't see her the entire time she has her period. Sure hope it wasn't because you couldn't have sex." When did I say this!


I asked you if any of the 3 times you were together she was on her period. You said no. Maybe you were responding to another poster, but it was right after my post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Jayg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "I'm curious why he didn't see her the entire time she has her period. Sure hope it wasn't because you couldn't have sex." When did I say this!
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if any of the 3 times you were together she was on her period. You said no. Maybe you were responding to another poster, but it was right after my post.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

No, I do see her when she has it.


----------



## Jayg14

spinsterdurga said:


> Jayg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's sudden. The last weekend together we had sex A LOT. Since then, nothing. 3 weekday visits and no sex.
> 
> Also, what do you mean emotional connection? People define it differently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You expect sex every time you get together?
> 
> Can you provide a timeline? I'm confused. Why didn't YOU initiate sex?
Click to expand...

I initiate more than she does. She either tells me she isn't interested or she forcefully grabs my hand and shoves it off her if not in the mood.


----------



## Yosemite

Jayg14 said:


> I initiate more than she does. She either tells me she isn't interested or she forcefully grabs my hand and shoves it off her if not in the mood.


She sounds angry.


----------



## Begin again

Yosemite said:


> She sounds angry.


Yeah... We are six pages into this thread and this is the first time I've read that. You said earlier that all is good in this relationship except sex has slowed down the past few weeks, but if she's throwing your hand off her then she ain't happy!

So, let's break this down. You don't go out, as she's a homebody. You see each other approx 3 times a week. You want sex every time since that is normal in your eyes. You intimate a lot and are getting a no and even have her throwing your hand off. 

She's going to end this shortly. You won't even need to ask. Bring up what you told us and it will just go quicker. You expect sex every time you see her, even if she's on her period. And you are counting days between times and calling them droughts. You even anticipated not having sex again until after her trip which she hasn't even left for yet and adding that to your total number of "drought" days.
Sorry, guy, but I don't think you are mature enough for a relationship. Go on Tinder. It's really all you need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Yosemite said:
> 
> 
> 
> She sounds angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah... We are six pages into this thread and this is the first time I've read that. You said earlier that all is good in this relationship except sex has slowed down the past few weeks, but if she's throwing your hand off her then she ain't happy!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

That happened three times: when she didn't want me touching her butt, last night at 2AM and one night when I groped her, but later apologized as she fought with her mom earlier. I got a BJ soon after.


----------



## Yosemite

Jayg14 said:


> That happened three times: when she didn't want me touching her butt, last night at 2AM and one night when I groped her, but later apologized as she fought with her mom earlier. I got a BJ soon after.


From who? I think you mean her but it's a bit hard to say from how you wrote that.


----------



## Jayg14

Yosemite said:


> Jayg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That happened three times: when she didn't want me touching her butt, last night at 2AM and one night when I groped her, but later apologized as she fought with her mom earlier. I got a BJ soon after.
> 
> 
> 
> From who? I think you mean her but it's a bit hard to say from how you wrote that.
Click to expand...

From my GF, of course.


----------



## Yosemite

Gotchya.


----------



## Begin again

How old is she?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> How old is she?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


35.


----------



## AliceA

A person can experience times when they don't feel like being touched on certain areas of their body. I'm not really seeing the problem here.


----------



## Begin again

breeze said:


> A person can experience times when they don't feel like being touched on certain areas of their body. I'm not really seeing the problem here.


I see a problem, but it's not about whether she lets him touch her butt. Here's what I see:

- OP has a history of a sexless marriage which dictates his frame of reference regarding what is a "good" relationship.
- OP is perpetually on guard for any signs that frequency may wane or his girlfriend is like his ex.
- OP is very focused on the sexual part of the relationship, counting the days since the previous time they had sex, recalling when he last received a BJ and the circumstances surrounding it, uses terms like "drought," etc.
- OP does not take into account that the past 3 times he saw his gf, at least once she had her period and all 3 times were mid week and she's just recently started a new job which leaves her tired enough that she takes a nap in the afternoon when she gets home.

I'm thinking that jay needs to get over his past in order to have a successful relationship in the future. Just my 2 cents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr. Nail

Sudden change of habit and an approaching vacation. Simple, It's the vacation. They don't see each other when she is on her period because she doesn't want to see him as has been demonstrated. Yes OP Jay sees life through the filter of his experiences as do we all.


----------



## Jayg14

Wait, wait, wait. I never said we don't hang out when she is on her period. We do. And I don't expect sex when she's on it either. It happens, but I don't expect it. 

The reason I am alarmed in the lack of sex is that *we've only been together two months*. Every other relationship I've had, the honeymoon phase (and the sex that comes along with it) has been regular for about 6 months. That's why it's concerning to me. I realize every person is different, but when multiple relationships (with different people, who are all unique) are all relatively the same, I don't think it's out of left field to pause and look at things when there's a drastic change. 

I subscribe to Athol Kay's philosophy (founder of MMSL): _Marriage is at its heart, a sexual relationship. Without the sex it's just a legally binding friendship, which is a needlessly complicated way of having a friend. The basic agreement of being married is to meet each other’s sexual needs and not to run round getting them met anywhere else._ I expect this of any relationship that could lead to marriage as well, obviously.

I went through a sexless marriage. I don't want to do it again.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> Wait, wait, wait. I never said we don't hang out when she is on her period. We do. And I don't expect sex when she's on it either. It happens, but I don't expect it.
> 
> The reason I am alarmed in the lack of sex is that *we've only been together two months*. Every other relationship I've had, the honeymoon phase (and the sex that comes along with it) has been regular for about 6 months. That's why it's concerning to me. I realize every person is different, but when multiple relationships (with different people, who are all unique) are all relatively the same, I don't think it's out of left field to pause and look at things when there's a drastic change.
> 
> I subscribe to Athol Kay's philosophy (founder of MMSL): _Marriage is at its heart, a sexual relationship. Without the sex it's just a legally binding friendship, which is a needlessly complicated way of having a friend. The basic agreement of being married is to meet each other’s sexual needs and not to run round getting them met anywhere else._ I expect this of any relationship that could lead to marriage as well, obviously.
> 
> I went through a sexless marriage. I don't want to do it again.


Jay - I totally get that. I was in a sexless marriage, too, and it sucked!!! I will never do that again. But I also won't be pressured into sex. I want to want the man, NEED the man I'm with, if you get my drift.

What I'm saying is that right now it seems you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy. You are living in fear right now and you will mess up because you can't be objective.

You said that you never experienced a honeymoon phase where sex dwindled. But you were in a sexless marriage. Why did it turn sexless? Have you taken stock in your half of the problem? Because most problems in marriage are not one sided.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Begin again

Mr. Nail said:


> Sudden change of habit and an approaching vacation. Simple, It's the vacation. They don't see each other when she is on her period because she doesn't want to see him as has been demonstrated. Yes OP Jay sees life through the filter of his experiences as do we all.


And when you have a negative life experience, allowing that to be your permanent filter means you have a life that will always be negative. Working on yourself and your perspective should be the goal of every TAM member who wants more than what they have today or what they went through. To say "this is my story" and never grow is to play the victim forever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> . But you were in a sexless marriage. Why did it turn sexless? Have you taken stock in your half of the problem? Because most problems in marriage are not one sided.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There were behaviors that I did that contributed to her having an EA and wanting a divorce. I've taken stock and tried to turn most of them around. The 3-year relationship I had with my ex-GF, like I said, was what I considered the ideal relationship, and it was changes I made that led to such a good thing.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Jayg14 said:


> I initiate more than she does. She either tells me she isn't interested or she forcefully grabs my hand and shoves it off her if not in the mood.


I see this as a very bad sign, especially the "forceful" part. I'd expect things to still be hot and heavy so early in a relationship. I know you're not at the point of marriage, but if she's rejecting you so forcefully now, things will only be worse once you marry.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Begin again said:


> I see a problem, but it's not about whether she lets him touch her butt. Here's what I see:
> 
> - OP has a history of a sexless marriage which dictates his frame of reference regarding what is a "good" relationship.
> - OP is perpetually on guard for any signs that frequency may wane or his girlfriend is like his ex.
> - OP is very focused on the sexual part of the relationship, counting the days since the previous time they had sex, recalling when he last received a BJ and the circumstances surrounding it, uses terms like "drought," etc.
> - OP does not take into account that the past 3 times he saw his gf, at least once she had her period and all 3 times were mid week and she's just recently started a new job which leaves her tired enough that she takes a nap in the afternoon when she gets home.
> 
> I'm thinking that jay needs to get over his past in order to have a successful relationship in the future. Just my 2 cents.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


QFT - BEST case he is going to drive her away.


----------



## Livvie

If you only see each other once a week and every other weekend due to Your life schedule, this IS NOT a hot and heavy relationship and you should not expect the sex to be, either.


----------



## Jayg14

Livvie said:


> If you only see each other once a week and every other weekend due to Your life schedule, this IS NOT a hot and heavy relationship and you should not expect the sex to be, either.


Why not? Absence makes the heart (and in my case, loins) grow fonder. Especially when she tells me how attracted she is to me and how I take care of her in the bedroom.


----------



## Blondilocks

Jayg14 said:


> Why not? Absence makes the heart (and in my case, loins) grow fonder. Especially when she tells me how attracted she is to me and how I take care of her in the bedroom.


Why not? I'll tell you why not. Your schedule is one more akin to f-buddies - not that of a boyfriend/girlfriend who can't keep their hands off of each other. A boyfriend/girlfriend relationship requires more time invested to develop the feelings. You're not in the 'honeymoon phase' of a relationship. You hardly have a relationship.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> And when you have a negative life experience, allowing that to be your permanent filter means you have a life that will always be negative. Working on yourself and your perspective should be the goal of every TAM member who wants more than what they have today or what they went through. To say "this is my story" and never grow is to play the victim forever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't wish to play the victim. I just want a relationship where my sex life is what I expect, or as close as I can get. Granted, I know I have to act and behave in a manner that will get me to that point. SO, I have to go through what are (to me) drought periods in order to have a relationship where I get the frequency of sex I desire? 

I feel I've been given a second chance to have the relationship I want. But apparently I'm doing it wrong and it won't ever happen. Is that what everyone is saying?


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> Why not? I'll tell you why not. Your schedule is one more akin to f-buddies - not that of a boyfriend/girlfriend who can't keep their hands off of each other. A boyfriend/girlfriend relationship requires more time invested to develop the feelings. You're not in the 'honeymoon phase' of a relationship. You hardly have a relationship.


1) We both consider it relationship
2) Can't be FWB if you're not getting benefits every time you're together
3) I have two kids and I am determined to be the best father I can be. That requires two nights a week and every other weekend. I take 1 night a week for me. She gets the rest. Best I can do at this stage.


----------



## Livvie

In life you usually reap what you sow. That's great your kids come first. It still doesn't change the fact that it's not a "hot and heavy" relationship.


----------



## Jayg14

Livvie said:


> In life you usually reap what you sow. That's great your kids come first. It still doesn't change the fact that it's not a "hot and heavy" relationship.


So, if I'm FWB, as you say, then if there's going to be no B, then I shouldn't bother to spend time. Is that what you're saying?

I will say this: one night during the week, my kids stay at my parents' house because they are off the next morning and take them to school. I offer to spend time with my GF after my parents pick the kids up. She declines as it's too close to her bedtime.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> I see a problem, but it's not about whether she lets him touch her butt. Here's what I see:
> 
> 
> - OP is perpetually on guard for any signs that frequency may wane or his girlfriend is like his ex.
> - OP is very focused on the sexual part of the relationship, counting the days since the previous time they had sex, recalling when he last received a BJ and the circumstances surrounding it, uses terms like "drought," etc.
> 
> I'm thinking that jay needs to get over his past in order to have a successful relationship in the future. Just my 2 cents.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let me ask this: knowing that I consider sex a major part of relationship (as without it, we're friends, and I have enough friends), how should I approach sex in this relationship? How can I get over my sexless marriage past to not have that again? Knowing that i consider 3 weeks without sex 18 days too long?


----------



## arbitrator

*From a pure physiological standpoint, women can get awfully sensitive near the onset of their periods, pure and simple!

But if I'm a betting man, I would venture to say that "the arm brush" is being given primarily because everytime you get together with her, she is increasingly growing weary of being a more than convenient outlet for your sexual release and I wouldn't bet against the fact that perhaps in her own way that she's seeking to tell you that she wants something more permanent in your relationship together.

Think that the two of you need to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting, and the sooner the better!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Livvie

Jayg14 said:


> Begin again said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see a problem, but it's not about whether she lets him touch her butt. Here's what I see:
> 
> 
> - OP is perpetually on guard for any signs that frequency may wane or his girlfriend is like his ex.
> - OP is very focused on the sexual part of the relationship, counting the days since the previous time they had sex, recalling when he last received a BJ and the circumstances surrounding it, uses terms like "drought," etc.
> 
> I'm thinking that jay needs to get over his past in order to have a successful relationship in the future. Just my 2 cents.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> Let me ask this: knowing that I consider sex a major part of relationship (as without it, we're friends, and I have enough friends), how should I approach sex in this relationship? How can I get over my sexless marriage past to not have that again? Knowing that i consider 3 weeks without sex 18 days too long?
Click to expand...

You are acting like it's been 3 weeks of no sex with someone you are living with.

First of all, part of that time is while she is away on vacation!!!!

Secondly, you only see her sporadically!!! You are not able to be her full time boyfriend, or even half time boyfriend.

I would have declined seeing you that night you offered to come over later in the evening after you dropped the kids off, too, if I was tired and had when the next morning. She probably knew you were coming over just for sex!!

The whole relationship is set by you.


----------



## Blondilocks

One of us is not understanding the situation. You say you spend 1 day a week and every other weekend with her. Is that correct? If so, how would expect to approach sex in this relationship? Would you say more time together would be beneficial? Or would sex 1 night/wk and every other weekend qualify as sex being a major part of the relationship? Because it sounds to me like you're already in a quasi sexless relationship.

What if this is as good as it gets?


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> One of us is not understanding the situation. You say you spend 1 day a week and every other weekend with her. Is that correct? If so, how would expect to approach sex in this relationship? Would you say more time together would be beneficial? Or would sex 1 night/wk and every other weekend qualify as sex being a major part of the relationship? Because it sounds to me like you're already in a quasi sexless relationship.
> 
> What if this is as good as it gets?


Yes, you are correct in the time spent. More time would be beneficial, but I need to be a dad and we're not at a point where I'm ready to introduce her to my kids. And yes, sex most of the time you are together is a major part of the relationship. If we get together on Wed, Fri-Sun, I'd expect to have sex 2 of those days, minimum in the first 6 months of a relationship. of course, you can't have sex when you're not together. 

FWIW, my ex and I had same visiting patterns and we never went a visit without sex, save for the two weekends she had the flu.

If this is as good as it gets, then maybe I need to do thinking about the relationship...


----------



## Jayg14

Livvie said:


> You are acting like it's been 3 weeks of no sex with someone you are living with.
> 
> First of all, part of that time is while she is away on vacation!!!! *Yes, and?*
> 
> Secondly, you only see her sporadically!!! You are not able to be her full time boyfriend, or even half time boyfriend. *Doing the best I can*
> 
> I would have declined seeing you that night you offered to come over later in the evening after you dropped the kids off, too, if I was tired and had when the next morning. She probably knew you were coming over just for sex!! *It was an attempt to spend more time with her. In this case, I wouldn't expect sex. *
> 
> The whole relationship is set by you. *Not being facetious here, but I have no idea what this means. *


----------



## Livvie

"The whole relationship is set by you" means that the whole relationship revolves around your life schedule.


----------



## Jayg14

Livvie said:


> "The whole relationship is set by you" means that the whole relationship revolves around your life schedule.


She's okay with it as I made it clear before we started dating.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Blondilocks said:


> One of us is not understanding the situation. You say you spend 1 day a week and every other weekend with her. Is that correct? If so, how would expect to approach sex in this relationship? Would you say more time together would be beneficial? Or would sex 1 night/wk and every other weekend qualify as sex being a major part of the relationship? Because it sounds to me like you're already in a quasi sexless relationship.
> 
> What if this is as good as it gets?


It seems to me that they are not IN a relationship. He just has a side fVck buddy.


----------



## Livvie

Jayg14 said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The whole relationship is set by you" means that the whole relationship revolves around your life schedule.
> 
> 
> 
> She's okay with it as I made it clear before we started dating.
Click to expand...

It still doesn't change that fact.


----------



## Jayg14

NobodySpecial said:


> It seems to me that they are not IN a relationship. He just has a side fVck buddy.



Gotta be having regular sex to have a **** buddy.


----------



## Jayg14

I'm starting to feel animosity here, so I guess I want a clear, simple answer and ideas for directions to take.

So, I'm in a quasi-FWB situation, not a relationship, due to the amount of time I am able to spend. As such, I should be happy to have any sex at all given what little time we spend together, and if I am not happy, I should try Tinder. Is this about right?


----------



## Livvie

You don't seem to want to hear what others are saying and broaden your perspective. I will stop posting in the thread.


----------



## Blondilocks

JayG, Yep.


----------



## Jayg14

Livvie said:


> You don't seem to want to hear what others are saying and broaden your perspective. I will stop posting in the thread.


No, I do want to hear and I value your input. While I recognize that it's hard to tell this in an online forum, I feel like people are coming down on me. If I am totally off-base, tell me. And since apparently people think I left key parts out (hence why now I am FWB instead of relationship) that changes people's advice. So, with my last post, would you say that's an accurate representation of what you, and others are saying?


----------



## Jayg14

Livvie said:


> It still doesn't change that fact.


So what should I do about it?


----------



## Blondilocks

You have two choices: Spend more time with your girl to allow for developing the relationship and more opportunities for sex or change your expectations. Because what you are expecting is not sympatico with a part-time 2 month relationship. End of story.


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> You have two choices: Spend more time with your girl to allow for developing the relationship and more opportunities for sex or change your expectations. Because what you are expecting is not sympatico with a part-time 2 month relationship. End of story.


Thank you. I appreciate this. Now, may I ask any suggestions you may have for this, given my limited time to spend with her?


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> So what should I do about it?


Well, I will say this. With the guy I dated briefly, we could only see each other about as often as you are seeing your girlfriend. And we did have sex every time we saw each other. But what we didn't do was go out. We were always at his place or mine and had dinner and had sex. Even trying to watch a movie was interrupted by sex.

While that was very fun, the relationship wasn't going to grow that way. And it didn't. Now, I ended it because he wouldn't make more time for me. But we also had one time where we broke up and then tried to come back together. I tried to get us to do something different, go out, and he asked me "how long are you gonna hold me off?" Meaning when do I get my sex again? It pissed me off and also let me know that he did expect sex every time we saw each other and that spending quality time in other ways wasn't important to him. That ended it for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blondilocks

Jayg14 said:


> Thank you. I appreciate this. Now, may I ask any suggestions you may have for this, given my limited time to spend with her?


:banghead: Uncle.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Jayg14 said:


> Thank you. I appreciate this. Now, may I ask any suggestions you may have for this, given my limited time to spend with her?


Here is an important point. Do you want HER? Or do you want someone to have sex with?


----------



## NobodySpecial

Begin again said:


> Well, I will say this. With the guy I dated briefly, we could only see each other about as often as you are seeing your girlfriend. And we did have sex every time we saw each other. But what we didn't do was go out. We were always at his place or mine and had dinner and had sex. Even trying to watch a movie was interrupted by sex.
> 
> While that was very fun, the relationship wasn't going to grow that way. And it didn't. Now, I ended it because he wouldn't make more time for me. But we also had one time where we broke up and then tried to come back together. I tried to get us to do something different, go out, and he asked me "how long are you gonna hold me off?" Meaning when do I get my sex again? It pissed me off and also let me know that he did expect sex every time we saw each other and that spending quality time in other ways wasn't important to him. That ended it for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You were a fvck buddy.


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> :banghead: Uncle.


I don't get it. I'm told I need to spend more time to grow the relationship or temper my expectations. I want to spend more time, but don't really have a lot of extra time. So I am asking for suggestions on how to better balance my time to give more to her. And you say uncle? How is this not a valid question?


----------



## Jayg14

NobodySpecial said:


> Here is an important point. Do you want HER? Or do you want someone to have sex with?


I want her AND I want to have sex with her. I enjoy her company, her jokes and being around her. And she is great in the bedroom, so I want that too.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Well, I will say this. With the guy I dated briefly, we could only see each other about as often as you are seeing your girlfriend. And we did have sex every time we saw each other. But what we didn't do was go out. We were always at his place or mine and had dinner and had sex. Even trying to watch a movie was interrupted by sex.
> 
> While that was very fun, the relationship wasn't going to grow that way. And it didn't. Now, I ended it because he wouldn't make more time for me. But we also had one time where we broke up and then tried to come back together. I tried to get us to do something different, go out, and he asked me "how long are you gonna hold me off?" Meaning when do I get my sex again? It pissed me off and also let me know that he did expect sex every time we saw each other and that spending quality time in other ways wasn't important to him. That ended it for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for sharing this. As I mentioned before, she's a homebody. I'm the one constantly trying to make plans to go out and do things. I have two free hotel stays and I was in the midst of making plans for us to take an overnight trip and she stopped me as she didn't want to go out. She often doesn't want to go out.


----------



## Begin again

NobodySpecial said:


> You were a fvck buddy.


And given that he tried many many times after we broke up to get me to come over and have sex with him, I'd say you are 100% correct! I told him to get on Tinder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> I want her AND I want to have sex with her. I enjoy her company, her jokes and being around her. And she is great in the bedroom, so I want that too.


My guy would 100% say the exact same thing about me. And yet I ended it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SunCMars

Catherine602 said:


> If she is otherwise loving and pleasant, don't be concerned. Put this away with all of the things you are learning and evaluate how important it is when you have *more data points*. It may be a red flag but maybe not. Keep your eyes open and remember dating is a trial period.
> 
> It seems as if you need to work on your self-confidence. You don't want to appear insecure by getting upset over little things. I wouldn't bring up the touch thing unless it becomes a big issue then discuss it from the standpoint of what you want in terms of respectful communication. Don't ask if she is still attracted thats too weak sounding.
> 
> No reason to break up or react too strongly or nip anything in the bud. Enjoy your relationship and be calm and in control of your emotions.


This is a good post.

The *DATA POINTS* tip cracked me up.

So damn useful...............yet so damn cold and calculating; it's higher education on display.

Now the ladies are plotting us on [data point/trending graphs], instead of plotting the old fashioned Vixen way!

Men are doomed.


----------



## Blondilocks

Jayg14 said:


> I don't get it. I'm told I need to spend more time to grow the relationship or temper my expectations. I want to spend more time, but don't really have a lot of extra time. *So I am asking for suggestions on how to better balance my time to give more to her. *And you say uncle? How is this not a valid question?


How do you expect anyone on TAM to be able to answer that question? Not enough data provided. And, seriously, people find the time for what is important to them.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Begin again said:


> And given that he tried many many times after we broke up to get me to come over and have sex with him, I'd say you are 100% correct! I told him to get on Tinder.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My ex was the same. I love you, no really I love you. No don't really want to do anything else. No I don't want to out. And no I don't see any reason to get together with you without sex. Buh, bye.


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> How do you expect anyone on TAM to be able to answer that question? Not enough data provided. And, seriously, people find the time for what is important to them.


Fair enough.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> Thank you for sharing this. As I mentioned before, she's a homebody. I'm the one constantly trying to make plans to go out and do things. I have two free hotel stays and I was in the midst of making plans for us to take an overnight trip and she stopped me as she didn't want to go out. She often doesn't want to go out.


You say to her the following:

1. I can only see you as often as we see each other now, as my kids and responsibilities as a parent come first.
2. I want to build a relationship with you.
3. I want us to go out and do things, not just stay at home.
4. I want to have sex every time we see each other since that will be about 3 times a week. That's what I need as a man with physical needs.

And there you have it. Lay it all out for her. Then see what she says. I see no other way. This relationship will end or evolve based on what she says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NobodySpecial

SunCMars said:


> This is a good post.
> 
> The *DATA POINTS* tip cracked me up.
> 
> So damn useful...............yet so damn cold and calculating; it's higher education on display.
> 
> Now the ladies are plotting us on [data point/trending graphs], instead of plotting the old fashioned Vixen way!
> 
> Men are doomed.


No, I don't think she is saying women are plotting. I think she is advising him to do what dating is for, learn about her and whether or not they are compatible.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> You say to her the following:
> 
> 1. I can only see you as often as we see each other now, as my kids and responsibilities as a parent come first.
> 2. I want to build a relationship with you.
> 3. I want us to go out and do things, not just stay at home.
> 4. I want to have sex every time we see each other since that will be about 3 times a week. That's what I need as a man with physical needs.
> 
> And there you have it. Lay it all out for her. Then see what she says. I see no other way. This relationship will end or evolve based on what she says.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bam. Thank you for this. I appreciate everyone's posts and taking time to write, but i find this most valuable. Direct, simple. Thanks again.


----------



## norajane

Jayg14 said:


> Bam. Thank you for this. I appreciate everyone's posts and taking time to write, but i find this most valuable. Direct, simple. Thanks again.


I don't know anyone that would sign up for a guaranteed sex contract like that, which #4 kinda sounds like you'd be expecting. I hope you aren't expecting her to give you a blanket agreement that she will have sex with you every time she sees you. If you truly expect that, you are not AT ALL taking her needs/feelings into consideration because there WILL bet times she will not want to have sex. And she MAY see you as being interested in her primarily for sex if you don't want to see her UNLESS she has sex with you.


----------



## Jayg14

norajane said:


> I don't know anyone that would sign up for a guaranteed sex contract like that, which #4 kinda sounds like you'd be expecting. I hope you aren't expecting her to give you a blanket agreement that she will have sex with you every time she sees you. If you truly expect that, you are not AT ALL taking her needs/feelings into consideration because there WILL bet times she will not want to have sex. And she MAY see you as primarily being interested in sex if you don't want to see her UNLESS she has sex with you.


I see what you are saying, and that's fair, given what's been in these posts. That said, I expect to go see her, have fun, talk about our day and spend time together. Most of the time, we have sex. I never go over there with the thinking "If we aren't having sex within an hour, I'm gone." 

The sex expectation thought goes more like it is now: "we're going on three weeks without sex, we need to nip this in the bud before it gets worse."


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> Bam. Thank you for this. I appreciate everyone's posts and taking time to write, but i find this most valuable. Direct, simple. Thanks again.


Being direct will help, but keep in mind you've thought all of this through here with input from many people. She may need some time to think this through. Don't deliver an ultimatum. Delivery will matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> I see what you are saying, and that's fair, given what's been in these posts. That said, I expect to go see her, have fun, talk about our day and spend time together. Most of the time, we have sex. I never go over there with the thinking "If we aren't having sex within an hour, I'm gone."
> 
> The sex expectation thought goes more like it is now: "we're going on three weeks without sex, we need to nip this in the bud before it gets worse."


That's gonna sink the ship.

"I really care about you and I want our relationship to grow. As you know, I was in a sexless marriage in there last that really affected me. I'm free of the marriage, but not totally free of the affect it had on me. I really like you, and I like having sex with you. When we go for long without sex, my mind goes back to the place I used to be. I don't want that. But more importantly, I love making love to you. It brings us closer, and that matters. A lot! I'd love to make love to you every time we see each other. It's something that I need, but it's also something that will be part of what helps us grow."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NobodySpecial

Jayg14 said:


> The sex expectation thought goes more like it is now: "we're going on three weeks without sex, we need to nip this in the bud before it gets worse."


Wait. I thought it had been 3 DAYS but *will have* been 3 weeks by the time she gets back from vacation. That makes a difference. Like are you looking for her to look at her calendar and make sure she does not allow the span to increase by more than some decided span regardless of life? She is very accommodating of your busy life. You might want to do the same.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Being direct will help, but keep in mind you've thought all of this through here with input from many people. She may need some time to think this through. Don't deliver an ultimatum. Delivery will matter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutely. When I meant direct, I meant direct responses in terms of action steps and suggestions, which your post had.


----------



## Jayg14

NobodySpecial said:


> That makes a difference. Like are you looking for her to look at her calendar and make sure she does not allow the span to increase by more than some decided span regardless of life?


Of course not. If stuff comes up, of course I factor that in. But there really hasn't been anything, at least in my mind, these past weeks that necessitates all of a sudden not wanting to have to sex.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> That's gonna sink the ship.
> 
> "I really care about you and I want our relationship to grow. As you know, I was in a sexless marriage in there last that really affected me. I'm free of the marriage, but not totally free of the affect it had on me. I really like you, and I like having sex with you. When we go for long without sex, my mind goes back to the place I used to be. I don't want that. But more importantly, I love making love to you. It brings us closer, and that matters. A lot! I'd love to make love to you every time we see each other. It's something that I need, but it's also something that will be part of what helps us grow."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1) That is frickin' gold. Thanks!
2) I don't say that thought out loud.


----------



## norajane

Jayg14 said:


> Of course not. If stuff comes up, of course I factor that in. But there really hasn't been anything, *at least in my mind,* these past weeks that necessitates all of a sudden not wanting to have to sex.


That is how you see it. You don't know how she sees it. OR maybe you do, but don't think her reasoning is valid and thus dismiss her views.

For example, you made light of the fact that last time, she had to get up early for work so you didn't end up having sex. Didn't you also say she has a NEW job? That is the kind of real life stuff that happens that YOU don't believe should be a deterrent, but SHE does. So you don't see any reason not to have sex, but she wasn't up for it because of her early morning at her new job. If you dismiss her perspective on this as not being a "good enough" reason for not being into sex that night, that will be a problem for you. You will be believing she's lost attraction (or worse) when it's nothing more than needing a good night's sleep for her.

She is an individual and has different stresses and schedule than you. Just like YOU are not available for sex or otherwise many, many nights and weekends when she might be up for sex and lots of it, there will be times she won't be available for sex even though you are. Dismiss her feelings at your peril, especially when you are working on a limited time table due to YOUR obligations and schedule.


----------



## Jayg14

norajane said:


> That is how you see it. You don't know how she sees it. OR maybe you do, but don't think her reasoning is valid and thus dismiss her views.
> 
> For example, you made light of the fact that last time, she had to get up early for work so you didn't end up having sex. Didn't you also say she has a NEW job? That is the kind of real life stuff that happens that YOU don't believe should be a deterrent, but SHE does. So you don't see any reason not to have sex, but she wasn't up for it because of her early morning at her new job. If you dismiss her perspective on this as not being a "good enough" reason for not being into sex that night, that will be a problem for you. You will be believing she's lost attraction (or worse) when it's nothing more than needing a good night's sleep for her.
> 
> She is an individual and has different stresses and schedule than you. Just like YOU are not available for sex or otherwise many, many nights and weekends when she might be up for sex and lots of it, there will be times she won't be available for sex even though you are. Dismiss her feelings at your peril, especially when you are working on a limited time table due to YOUR obligations and schedule.


Very valid post and I don't think of that, if only because _she doesn't articulate this to me. If this is an issue for her, she needs to tell me._ That is something I'll be sure to bring up next we get together. And thanks, I'll also tell her that if she's in the mood and it's a night I don't have the kids, she better call me.


----------



## norajane

Jayg14 said:


> Very valid post and I don't think of that, if only because _she doesn't articulate this to me. If this is an issue for her, she needs to tell me._ That is something I'll be sure to bring up next we get together. And thanks, I'll also tell her that if she's in the mood and it's a night I don't have the kids, she better call me.


I don't know if it is an "issue" for her. I'm just noting that there could very well be lots of times she would want to have sex with you, but you have your kids that weekday or weekend and aren't available, and she accepts that. Just because there are times when she isn't open to having sex when it is your scheduled date night, doesn't mean she doesn't want to have sex with you and she could be wishing for it on nights when it isn't your date night. 

It just means you both have to accept there are going to be times when one or the other wants sex but it doesn't work for the other person and it's not a sign of the apocalypse.


----------



## SunCMars

NobodySpecial said:


> No, I don't think she is saying women are plotting. I think she is advising him to do what dating is for, learn about her and whether or not they are compatible.


Wry Humor, Dear.

Rye Humor leads to Mold and scary Peni$illin quotes.

BTW, I approve of *Man Picker Charts*, here are my recommendations:

1) *Venn Charts *for relationships

2)* Distribution Charts *for Area Dating trends. Plot all the men you have dated in one area in a single chart. Find your best town for dates.

3)* Line charts *for monogamous dating. The Y-Plane is a rating system from one to ten, ten being best. The X-Plane is for those traits that you find valuable, i.e., sense of humor, physique, communication skills, round butt, etc.

4) *Scatter Chart *for those traits that you detest....scatter brained men have these, aplenty.


----------



## Jayg14

norajane said:


> Jayg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very valid post and I don't think of that, if only because _she doesn't articulate this to me. If this is an issue for her, she needs to tell me._ That is something I'll be sure to bring up next we get together. And thanks, I'll also tell her that if she's in the mood and it's a night I don't have the kids, she better call me.
> 
> 
> 
> It just means you both have to accept there are going to be times when one or the other wants sex but it doesn't work for the other person and * it's not a sign of the apocalypse.*
Click to expand...

You hit on my struggle. And an apt word because it means revelation and these situations can reveal a lot.


----------



## Personal

...


----------



## Jayg14

She must've read my mind, this forum or both, because we had GREAT sex last night...and this morning. She wanted "something to look forward to for next weekend".


----------



## Jayg14

Bump


----------



## Jayg14

Here we go again...she's been home 2 hours and she's saying she gained 10 pounds eating on her trip, asking if I notice it. I touched her and winked suggestively, saying I'd inspect her later. She said, oh no, no way. She's had a long day. She woke up at 8am and had a 3pm flight. This after texting me the past two days telling me at least 5x how much she misses me. 

Thinking hard about talking to her tomorrow, and let the chips fall where they may.


----------



## Livvie

Maybe she does miss you. Maybe she is spent from travel. They can exist at the same time. Why did it have to be LATER? Maybe you are attempting having sex too late in the day. Why was it a later, why didn't you initiate right then????


----------



## Jayg14

I had to work late and she had dinner with her mom. We got together as soon as we could. That's when I tried to initiate.

She spoke before she left (after we had sex) of looking forward to it when she returned. If she had a late flight, I'd get it. But she got in midafternoon and had a quiet dinner with her mom (who lives on other side of our town). Not exactly tiring.

I can understand a late flight, lots of driving, or things like that. But if I have time to do other things, then certain things you claim to want shouldn't be out of the question. I don't think that is unreasonable.


----------



## farsidejunky

Why don't you give her the space to miss you?

Your need for her sexual attention (validation) is going to push her away.


----------



## Jayg14

farsidejunky said:


> Why don't you give her the space to miss you?
> 
> Your need for her sexual attention (validation) is going to push her away.


She was on vacation for a whole week, during which time she told me she missed me more than once. Is that not enough?

IMO, no sex=no relationship.


----------



## Miss Independent

.


----------



## Jayg14

spinsterdurga said:


> Jayg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was on vacation for a whole week, during which time she told me she missed me more than once. Is that not enough?
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, no sex=no relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being needy!!
Click to expand...

Then suggestions are welcomed on how to get regular sex without being needy, applying red pill principles or cheating.


----------



## Jayg14

The reason I am making a big deal about this is I feel that my ex-wife running out on me gave me a chance to have the relationship I want. I had it with my ex, but she moved. So far, this one is good but for the sex. I don't want to be the guy that just dates a gal until the regular sex stops, but I may need to.

Another thing that irks me: she called me her stud multiple times today, even in front of others. If I'm such a stud, why isn't she f+%king me?!


----------



## farsidejunky

You need IC.


----------



## Jayg14

What's IC??


----------



## Catherine602

Jayg14 said:


> The reason I am making a big deal about this is I feel that my ex-wife running out on me gave me a chance to have the relationship I want. I had it with my ex, but she moved. So far, this one is good but for the sex. I don't want to be the guy that just dates a gal until the regular sex stops, but I may need to.
> 
> Another thing that irks me: she called me her stud multiple times today, even in front of others. If I'm such a stud, why isn't she f+%king me?!


Why do you want this particular woman so much? It seems to me that she is just not that in to you. If she was, she would be all over you not making excuses not to see you. Why does she have the right of refusal and you accept what crumbs she throws your way?

The best thing you can do for yourself is to dump this woman. You will find a woman who is wild about you if you fix your twisted picker. Date only to find what you find comparable not to find a LTR. Be honest and when you know yourself better then look for something more permanent. Work on your self esteem. 

Your wife leaving has had a profound effect on you and you need time to heal the wounds. You are not ready to chose anyone to settle down with in your current mental state.


----------



## Jayg14

I appreciate your reply. My wife left 5 years ago. I'm past that. But I'm near 40,and I'm already gray. IF I am gonna find a long term partner Into sex as much as me, I gotta get rolling (I previously outlined why). 

This gal is hot, almost as tall as me (hard to find gals near my 6'5") and quirky like me. When we DO have sex, it's amazing. 

I am honest with myself: I am not ugly, but I have average looks. I've lost weight, stick to exercise/lifting regimen, but the gals who are into FWB aren't into that with me (not for lack of trying, believe me). I can deal with the crap in relationships, but I need to be having regular sex.


----------



## Jayg14

..


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> I appreciate your reply. My wife left 5 years ago. I'm past that. But I'm near 40,and I'm already gray. IF I am gonna find a long term partner Into sex as much as me, I gotta get rolling (I previously outlined why).
> 
> This gal is hot, almost as tall as me (hard to find gals near my 6'5") and like me. When we DO have sex, it's amazing.
> 
> I am honest with myself: I am not ugly, but I have average looks. I've lost weight, stick to exercise/lifting regimen, but the gals who are into FWB aren't into that with me (not for lack of trying, believe me). I can deal with the crap in relationships, but I need to be having regular sex.


Please just move on. She deserves better. If a man spoke about me the way you speak about her, I would have dropped him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> The reason I am making a big deal about this is I feel that my ex-wife running out on me gave me a chance to have the relationship I want. I had it with my ex, but she moved. So far, this one is good but for the sex. I don't want to be the guy that just dates a gal until the regular sex stops, but I may need to.
> 
> Another thing that irks me: she called me her stud multiple times today, even in front of others. If I'm such a stud, why isn't she f+%king me?!


SMH at that last sentence. You don't deserve anyone; just find a FWB or get what you need from Tinder. And if this is your attitude, then just stick with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joannacroc

Jayg14 said:


> I appreciate your reply. My wife left 5 years ago. I'm past that. But I'm near 40,and I'm already gray. IF I am gonna find a long term partner Into sex as much as me, I gotta get rolling (I previously outlined why).
> 
> This gal is hot, almost as tall as me (hard to find gals near my 6'5") and quirky like me. When we DO have sex, it's amazing.
> 
> I am honest with myself: I am not ugly, but I have average looks. I've lost weight, stick to exercise/lifting regimen, but the gals who are into FWB aren't into that with me (not for lack of trying, believe me). *I can deal with the crap in relationships*, but I need to be having regular sex.


This says to me that you aren't ready for a relationship. It's dishonest to her to try and claim otherwise. Let her go. If someone described me as hot, tall and quirky, I might not find that the most flattering description. Do you like anything about her as a person? Outside of the bedroom? Quirky is an interesting word, but I wasn't sure if you were describing her personality in general, or her sexual proclivities. 

Believe me, I understand your position slightly, as I also exited a marriage with someone who did not have a high drive and it left me frustrated. ONE of the things I look for in a partner is a sex drive that is close to my own. But it's not the ONLY thing. If your drives don't match, then maybe you're not compatible. But it DOES seem you are focusing on this one issue to the exclusion of any other bond you may be forming with her. It may ironically turn her off and lead to less sex. I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Blondilocks

Try an experiment. Don't initiate. Give it 2 or 3 weeks and see if she notices or initiates. If she doesn't, you have your answer - she's not into you.


----------



## Celes

Sounds like she has a lower sex drive, honestly. That early in the relationship, you should be at it like rabbits.


----------



## Livvie

Blondilocks said:


> Try an experiment. Don't initiate. Give it 2 or 3 weeks and see if she notices or initiates. If she doesn't, you have your answer - she's not into you.


I think this is great advice.

I still think it's important to keep in mind that you are only available to her for a relationship one day a week and every other weekend. 

That kind of availability isn't the basis for a really entangled (emotionally and sexually) kind of relationship.


----------



## Jayg14

Livvie said:


> I think this is great advice.
> 
> I still think it's important to keep in mind that you are only available to her for a relationship one day a week and every other weekend.
> 
> That kind of availability isn't the basis for a really entangled (emotionally and sexually) kind of relationship.


I get what you're saying, and I see the validity of it. However, my ex and I saw each other Wednesdays and every other weekend and we went at it all the time. There was NEVER a time with her that we didn't have lots of sex, save for the two weekends she had the flu. I go on past experiences and precedents. If it happened before, and I'm no different (as far as letting myself go, changing behaviors), then there's no reason it can't (or shouldn't) happen again.


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> SMH at that last sentence. You don't deserve anyone; just find a FWB or get what you need from Tinder. And if this is your attitude, then just stick with that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I appreciate your reply. To answer both posts, we get each other. She understands my tics and I get hers. What's more, I like them. We have the same sense of humor. My tablet sucks for typing, so I keep it short. 

As I said, despite losing weight, maintaining an exercise regimen and trying to dye my gray, girls into Tinder and FWBs don't want to do that with me, despite my best efforts. So relationships are it for me.


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> Try an experiment. Don't initiate. Give it 2 or 3 weeks and see if she notices or initiates. If she doesn't, you have your answer - she's not into you.


I want to be sure I understand you. I'm here, upset at not having sex for two weeks, and you want me to _voluntarily_ go without sex??


----------



## Livvie

Jayg14 said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is great advice.
> 
> I still think it's important to keep in mind that you are only available to her for a relationship one day a week and every other weekend.
> 
> That kind of availability isn't the basis for a really entangled (emotionally and sexually) kind of relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> I get what you're saying, and I see the validity of it. However, my ex and I saw each other Wednesdays and every other weekend and we went at it all the time. There was NEVER a time with her that we didn't have lots of sex, save for the two weekends she had the flu. I go on past experiences and precedents. If it happened before, and I'm no different (as far as letting myself go, changing behaviors), then there's no reason it can't (or shouldn't) happen again.
Click to expand...

You seem to compare your present gf unfavorably to your previous gf. That's kind of not good. If the previous gf were perfect for you and vice versa, you'd still be together, you would have worked out any location issues etc. People even move to different countries to be together.

If this sex frequency is the main criteria by which you are judging your gf, and it's not what you want, then you should let the relationship end. You seem completely obsessed about it.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> I appreciate your reply. To answer both posts, we get each other. She understands my tics and I get hers. What's more, I like them. We have the same sense of humor. My tablet sucks for typing, so I keep it short.
> 
> As I said, despite losing weight, maintaining an exercise regimen and trying to dye my gray, girls into Tinder and FWBs don't want to do that with me, despite my best efforts. So relationships are it for me.


I know a short, fat 50 year old who got plenty of play on Tinder. You may just have to lower your standards. 

And being in a relationship so you can get sex is disrespectful. Yes, you "like her" but it's not the same. I think she will figure it out soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blondilocks

Jayg14 said:


> I want to be sure I understand you. I'm here, upset at not having sex for two weeks, and you want me to _voluntarily_ go without sex??


Yes. So you can figure out if you're spinning your wheels with this woman. Better to know now than a year down the road. No one ever died from lack of sex for 2 or 3 weeks. If you think you will, then you are not doing something right.


----------



## Starstarfish

Jayg14 said:


> I get what you're saying, and I see the validity of it. However, my ex and I saw each other Wednesdays and every other weekend and we went at it all the time. There was NEVER a time with her that we didn't have lots of sex, save for the two weekends she had the flu. I go on past experiences and precedents. If it happened before, and I'm no different (as far as letting myself go, changing behaviors), then there's no reason it can't (or shouldn't) happen again.


And that seems to be all that relationship was, because in the end despite being perfect you aren't together anymore. Clearly neither of you felt whatever relationship you had was worth major changes to your life, it was just convenient for what it was at the time. 

If you want a FWB that has no expectations of a future together but has plenty of sex, you should tell her that's what you are looking for, as that's ultimately what you are praising.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Dude, man I got so much to say. First you don't know anything about women apparently. When you talk to a woman you actually have to listen to them. When you describe her, if you were into her you would talk about how she feels and thinks. What she likes, what she does, what she's good at. Is she compassionate? Is she good with kids? What do you admire about her? If you could really see her, you would be telling us why she's a great woman.

If you don't know why she's a great woman, then that's what this time is about. Your dates should really be about getting to know her. If you do that, you'll know whether or not she's a good match. Plus I bet you'll have a lot more sex. Because most women want to know that you are actually looking at them as a person first and not as a sex object.

You've known her a long time. Maybe you know all these things, and just haven't shared them. I kind of hope so. If not, then that's where you should focus your efforts.

Now for your crazy ideas about sex. Why in the world would you think sex stops at 50? It stops for older couples when they grow apart, build resentments toward each other, become disinterested each other, and maybe don't even know each other. When your relationship grows, you get closer to the person, and you can end up having much more sex. And the sex is better too. I'm in my 50s and we do something at least daily. My sex drive is higher than hers, so she'll give me a BJ maybe four days a week and she really loves it but isn't interested in having sex. And the other three days or do something else. So, I don't know where you get the idea that older people don't have a lot of sex. We've been together over 30 years too.

Finally, you sound very immature. I get that you're panicking about the sex. Believe me I have a high sex drive. But by focusing on that to the exclusion of everything else, you're telegraphing your feelings. You know when you see someone is trying too hard to get a date? They never can, right? Will guess what, you're doing the same thing about sex. That alone might be why you're not getting any. You sound desperate and panicky about not getting sex, and that's a complete turnoff.

This thread started a while ago, so maybe you're not even dating anymore. I'm curious as to the current state of things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blondilocks

Jayg14 said:


> I get what you're saying, and I see the validity of it. However, my ex and I saw each other Wednesdays and every other weekend and we went at it all the time. There was NEVER a time with her that we didn't have lots of sex, save for the two weekends she had the flu. I go on past experiences and precedents. *If it happened before, and I'm no different (as far as letting myself go, changing behaviors), then there's no reason it can't (or shouldn't) happen again.*


You're absolutely right. All you have to do is go find your ex-gf's twin sister.


----------



## Jayg14

TheTruthHurts said:


> Now for your crazy ideas about sex. Why in the world would you think sex stops at 50?
> 
> This thread started a while ago, so maybe you're not even dating anymore. I'm curious as to the current state of things.


To answer your first question, earlier in the thread I alluded to this. I am close with my parents, an uncle and a mentor and we have frank discussions on a lot of topics. My parents and mentor are in their 60s, my uncle in his 50s. Due to life changes and health, sex has declined significantly for them. I am not a special person. I used to think I could avoid the issues that many people I knew hit at certain age milestones. As I grew, I learned that I am not special and I will hit these benchmarks. So if these people, who are all more successful than me (especially at marriage. My parents and mentor have been married 40+ years) have issues (when they don't want to), who am I to assume I'll be different, especially since I'm pushing 40 and nowhere near married?

We are still dating. Actually had a great weekend. We went out and had a blast and we had sex Sunday morning.


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> You're absolutely right. All you have to do is go find your ex-gf's twin sister.



She doesn't have one. And ALL of my relationships (since I lost my virginity, obviously) had me having constant sex up until at least the first 6 months, if not longer. This is the first one that hasn't. 

Wow, I sense the animosity coming at me from all directions. Might be warranted in some areas, but that's the opposite of what I expected here, given the great things I've heard about this site.


----------



## Jayg14

Starstarfish said:


> And that seems to be all that relationship was, because in the end despite being perfect you aren't together anymore. Clearly neither of you felt whatever relationship you had was worth major changes to your life, it was just convenient for what it was at the time.


You must've missed a lot of the thread. I would never see my kids again if I were to move to the Midwest. I'd have to get a new job (requiring child support for both) and their mother told me it'd all be on me to see them. She'd do nothing to help. My being a father is important and that's why I didn't move to the Midwest with her.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Jayg14 said:


> To answer your first question, earlier in the thread I alluded to this. I am close with my parents, an uncle and a mentor and we have frank discussions on a lot of topics. My parents and mentor are in their 60s, my uncle in his 50s. Due to life changes and health, sex has declined significantly for them. I am not a special person. I used to think I could avoid the issues that many people I knew hit at certain age milestones. As I grew, I learned that I am not special and I will hit these benchmarks. So if these people, who are all more successful than me (especially at marriage. My parents and mentor have been married 40+ years) have issues (when they don't want to), who am I to assume I'll be different, especially since I'm pushing 40 and nowhere near married?
> 
> 
> 
> We are still dating. Actually had a great weekend. We went out and had a blast and we had sex Sunday morning.




Presumably you are also able to learn and expand your knowledge beyond your family. For example, I can tell you it is easy to have more and better sex in your 50's, 60's, 70's and even 80's. I am in my mid 50's and there are many on TAM who are in these age ranges who gave plenty of good sex.

Does that make us special? I don't think so. But we all do work on our relationships and try to understand and meet our spouses needs.

For a man, smoking, excessive drinking, excessive weight can all impact performance as can other comorbidities. But I am 60-75 lbs overweight and have cancer and it doesn't affect me, so it is only a correlation. I exercise regularly, and am losing weight, but am no model specimen. 

Glad you are still working on your relationship. I hope you can be honest and open with her (without being needy).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jayg14

TheTruthHurts said:


> Presumably you are also able to learn and expand your knowledge beyond your family. For example, I can tell you it is easy to have more and better sex in your 50's, 60's, 70's and even 80's. I am in my mid 50's and there are many on TAM who are in these age ranges who gave plenty of good sex.
> 
> 
> Glad you are still working on your relationship. I hope you can be honest and open with her (without being needy).


I can, but I don't know many people over 50 and the ones I do (outside of the family), I'm not close enough to them to ask about their sex lives. I am definitely open to suggestions, however. 

I haven't discussed any of this with her. I've been told overwhelmingly, both here and from RPers, that it'd be a terrible idea at this juncture in my relationship.


----------



## norajane

Jayg14 said:


> She doesn't have one. And ALL of my relationships (since I lost my virginity, obviously) had me having constant sex up until at least the first 6 months, if not longer. This is the first one that hasn't.


And every single one of those relationships failed. Maybe you ought to consider that. You need more than constant sex to have a good relationship.


----------



## Jayg14

norajane said:


> And every single one of those relationships failed. Maybe you ought to consider that. You need more than constant sex to have a good relationship.


You are absolutely correct. I have never doubted that. But you need regular sex as well for it to be a good relationship, IMO. If that is missing, everything else could be great, but it won't be a good one.


----------



## Jayg14

One thing I wish to reiterate: I don't expect constant/regular sex my whole life. I get that there will be ebbs and flows, especially the longer you are together. I'm concerned because we're supposed to be in the honeymoon stage, and as a couple of posters said, we should be going at it like rabbits and we are not. I wouldn't post this if we were together 3, 4 years+.


----------



## norajane

> as a couple of posters said, we should be going at it like rabbits


A _couple _of posters...most of the _rest _of the posters in this long thread think your expectations are unreasonable, especially since you said this is the woman who _wakes you up in the middle of the night to have sex. _


----------



## Livvie

You're not really in the honeymoon phase. Not only seeing each other once a week and every other weekend. There is that barrier.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Jayg14 said:


> One thing I wish to reiterate: I don't expect constant/regular sex my whole life. I get that there will be ebbs and flows, especially the longer you are together. I'm concerned because we're supposed to be in the honeymoon stage, and as a couple of posters said, we should be going at it like rabbits and we are not. I wouldn't post this if we were together 3, 4 years+.


Your hyper sex focus is going to drive any sane woman away. I am about as sex positive as it is possible to be. And your words make me cringe.


----------



## Begin again

norajane said:


> A _couple _of posters...most of the _rest _of the posters in this long thread think your expectations are unreasonable, especially since you said this is the woman who _wakes you up in the middle of the night to have sex. _


It can take some folks on TAM years to hear what others are saying to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ILoveSparkles

You and this woman are sexually incompatible. 

Find someone else who is into sex as you are. It seems that you are focused on the sex and not the relationship.....


----------



## Jayg14

Livvie said:


> You're not really in the honeymoon phase. Not only seeing each other once a week and every other weekend. There is that barrier.


I get what you're saying, I do. Even if I didn't have kids, I'd only get together with her 2 days a week, 3 max. Agree to disagree.


----------



## Jayg14

Yes said:


> You and this woman are sexually incompatible.
> 
> Find someone else who is into sex as you are. It seems that you are focused on the sex and not the relationship.....


I am, because irregular sex = no relationship.


----------



## Jayg14

...


----------



## Jayg14

NobodySpecial said:


> Your hyper sex focus is going to drive any sane woman away. I am about as sex positive as it is possible to be. And your words make me cringe.


Just curious, in an average month, what's your average frequency? If you're as sex positive as you say, maybe I need to consider yours as a baseline.


----------



## Jayg14

So I'm not going to win, no matter what I do. Suppose it's pointless to keep going. I've requested suggestions from folks, and if they're willing to provide, I'll read them and mull them over. Otherwise, doesn't appear to do any good for me to keep posting on this matter.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Jayg14 said:


> Just curious, in an average month, what's your average frequency? If you're as sex positive as you say, maybe I need to consider yours as a baseline.


I have been married for over 20 years. Sometimes we have sex several times a day. Sometimes life happens. One thing DH does not do is freak out over micromanaging our sex life.


----------



## Jayg14

NobodySpecial said:


> I have been married for over 20 years. Sometimes we have sex several times a day. Sometimes life happens. One thing DH does not do is freak out over micromanaging our sex life.


Appreciate the response.


----------



## Blondilocks

Jayg14 said:


> So I'm not going to win, no matter what I do. Suppose it's pointless to keep going. *I've requested suggestions* from folks, and if they're willing to provide, I'll read them and mull them over. Otherwise, doesn't appear to do any good for me to keep posting on this matter.


I suggested you not initiate to determine her level of desire for you and your response: :surprise: I have to go without sex for 2 weeks?????

What is it you want from this forum? Do you want her to be pilloried? Wouldn't it be easier for you to examine your role in your relationships and figure out why they don't work out? Being a horn dog right out of the gate is not attractive to a lot of women. And, sex has a way of getting better the longer you are with a person.

Under ideal conditions, you state you would not see her more than 2 or 3 times a week. Booty-call. Uh huh.


----------



## Jayg14

Blondilocks said:


> Wouldn't it be easier for you to examine your role in your relationships and figure out why they don't work out? And, sex has a way of getting better the longer you are with a


I appreciate this response. I'm not very good at introspection, I'm afraid. I do better with objective feedback from the outside. I wouldn't even know where to begin. 

I keep hearing that and will have to take your word for it. And while great sex is awesome, I'd rather quantity over quality.


----------



## norajane

Jayg14 said:


> I appreciate this response. I'm not very good at introspection, I'm afraid. I do better with objective feedback from the outside. I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I keep hearing that and will have to take your word for it. And while great sex is awesome, I'd rather quantity over quality.


For a relationship to work out, you have to value many other things as much as you value sex, and you have to value some things even more than you value sex. Based on what you've posted here, those other things, the things you really like about this woman that you've known for 20 years, all of those things combined don't add up to how much you value sex. 

You've been dating her for 2 months. You've known her 20 years. There's a reason you got together with her now, but not before. Is she different from or similar to the other women you've been with? If she is different, are those differences appealing to you? If she is similar, then are you bringing something different to the relationship? Because if you aren't different and you're dating the same kind of person you dated in your past relationships that didn't work out, this one won't either. How well does she know you? How honest are you with her?

The part about preferring quantity over quality? That's something you need to talk to her about. You might as well know right away if she's down with that. I wouldn't be. A decrease in quality means fewer orgasms and less pleasure for me, so no, that sounds like a terrible idea to me. Let her know who you are so she can make her own decision about whether this relationship is for her. Speak up so she knows who you are and what you're looking for. Don't pretend you are happy with how things are if you aren't. That's what dating is for - figuring out if you're good together.


----------



## Starstarfish

I must just be old or old-fashioned or something, but being fit in as a Netflix and chill during the week doesn't really seem like "dating" at the two month mark.

For a focus on the "newness" of the relationship in regards to sex, that seems like a pattern and behavior for a way more established relationship. 

You don't really engage in the behaviors of a "hot new" couple from what seems described. But she wakes you up in the middle of the night for sex, so you stay at her place the nights you don't have kids?

I think part of it is you are giving mixed signals, you've settled into a pretty established pattern here - low-key dates (not going out) and staying over night but also want the relationship still in the new and hot stage. New and hot is going out, and getting dressed up somewhere and doing date stuff, not touching my butt on the couch during a movie and wanting sex.


----------



## Jayg14

norajane said:


> Jayg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate this response. I'm not very good at introspection, I'm afraid. I do better with objective feedback from the outside. I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> 
> I keep hearing that and will have to take your word for it. And while great sex is awesome, I'd rather quantity over quality.
> 
> 
> 
> For a relationship to work out, you have to value many other things as much as you value sex, and you have to value some things even more than you value sex. Based on what you've posted here, those other things, the things you really like about this woman that you've known for 20 years, all of those things combined don't add up to how much you value sex.
> 
> You've been dating her for 2 months. You've known her 20 years. There's a reason you got together with her now, but not before. Is she different from or similar to the other women you've been with? If she is different, are those differences appealing to you? If she is similar, then are you bringing something different to the relationship? Because if you aren't different and you're dating the same kind of person you dated in your past relationships that didn't work out, this one won't either. How well does she know you? How honest are you with her?
> 
> The part about preferring quantity over quality? That's something you need to talk to her about. You might as well know right away if she's down with that. I wouldn't be. A decrease in quality means fewer orgasms and less pleasure for me, so no, that sounds like a terrible idea to me. Let her know who you are so she can make her own decision about whether this relationship is for her. Speak up so she knows who you are and what you're looking for. Don't pretend you are happy with how things are if you aren't. That's what dating is for - figuring out if you're good together.
Click to expand...

To answer your questions:

-Yes, she IS different than others, but retains some similar qualities to other gals I've dated. 
-other than not talking to her about this, I'm more honest with her than anyone, including my ex-wife.
-With regards to the quality over quantity, I think of it like this: epic sex four times a year vs good sex once a week. I'll take weekly. It doesn't mean I don't give my all and pleasure her as best I can.


----------



## Jayg14

Starstarfish said:


> I must just be old or old-fashioned or something, but being fit in as a Netflix and chill during the week doesn't really seem like "dating" at the two month mark.
> 
> For a focus on the "newness" of the relationship in regards to sex, that seems like a pattern and behavior for a way more established relationship.
> 
> You don't really engage in the behaviors of a "hot new" couple from what seems described. But she wakes you up in the middle of the night for sex, so you stay at her place the nights you don't have kids?
> 
> I think part of it is you are giving mixed signals, you've settled into a pretty established pattern here - low-key dates (not going out) and staying over night but also want the relationship still in the new and hot stage. New and hot is going out, and getting dressed up somewhere and doing date stuff, not touching my butt on the couch during a movie and wanting sex.


To answer your questions:

-Yes, I stay over when I don't have kids
-Not going out is her choice, despite my efforts,(open to suggestions to remedy that). But we both love board and card games in addition to movies & TV


----------



## Starstarfish

> But we both love board and card games in addition to movies & TV


See if your town has a board game store with tournaments or a local nerd bar that has board games/card games people can play and at least go out to do that?


----------



## Jayg14

Starstarfish said:


> See if your town has a board game store with tournaments or a local nerd bar that has board games/card games people can play and at least go out to do that?


We do have that in town! I'll look more into that. Thank you!


----------



## Begin again

@Jayg14 So... what happened? Did you talk to her? If so, how did she respond?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> @Jayg14 So... what happened? Did you talk to her? If so, how did she respond?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She lost her job, has low self-esteem as a result. Got an infection down there. Touch as a display od affection is down. Trying to be supportive. Been about three weeks. She just got a new gig, starts 10/31. I'll give it to my birthday in November. If no change then, I move on.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> She lost her job, has low self-esteem as a result. Got an infection down there. Touch as a display od affection is down. Trying to be supportive. Been about three weeks. She just got a new gig, starts 10/31. I'll give it to my birthday in November. If no change then, I move on.


But did you talk to her or do you plan on just not saying anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Jayg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She lost her job, has low self-esteem as a result. Got an infection down there. Touch as a display od affection is down. Trying to be supportive. Been about three weeks. She just got a new gig, starts 10/31. I'll give it to my birthday in November. If no change then, I move on.
> 
> 
> 
> But did you talk to her or do you plan on just not saying anything?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Yes, that's how I know that her loss of job triggered the low self-esteem, and subsequently little sex.


----------



## Jayg14

Appreciate you asking @begin again, as I figured you took me for a top-level a-hole.


----------



## Begin again

Jayg14 said:


> Appreciate you asking @begin again, as I figured you took me for a top-level a-hole.


Honestly, I really just wanted to see what you would do. You are very honest about something that a lot of men aren't, so good to see actions that match words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayg14

Begin again said:


> Honestly, I really just wanted to see what you would do. You are very honest about something that a lot of men aren't, so good to see actions that match words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks and I appreciate your honesty.


----------

