# Tired of initiating sex



## -John- (May 10, 2011)

I'm always the one to initiate sex in our relationship and it's got to the point where I've often just lay there and waited for her to do something. She doesn't, well she puts a hand on my thigh but that's about the extent of her effort, this pretty much has the opposite effect on my libido and just makes me angry! 
Then there's this half hour of uncomfortable-ness where I know she wants sex but she won't do anything and I'm just not in the mood for sex anymore, we then just argue instead!
It's now at the point where I stay downstairs for a while to avoid this mess. 

Obviously a frustrated man, alone, browsing the internet is a dark creature indeed and this has led to applying to dating sites, then removing my profile the next day. Looking at escort sites but not making the call.

I've now stumbled across this site and I'm hoping it will take our relationship down healthier route. I'm aware that it's down to us both to sort this out and I guess I'll start it here.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Does she turn you down when you initiate? Have you talked to her about how you feel? How old are you two, and how long have you been together?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## -John- (May 10, 2011)

She doesn't turn me down but there's very little passion coming from her, she never starts anything physical really. I have spoken to her but she just doesn't change, doesn't seem inclined to start anything. 
We've been together 7years and it wasn't always like this, we used to have fun, tying eachother up, blindfolding and stuff. Now it feels as though we're just best friends, we get on very well in every other department, the reason we're still together i guess. I started to convince myself that sex isn't really that important but now I get so envious when I see guys with a passionate girl.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

what do you do to evoke passion ? please explain how dating sites and hookers are not you initiating ? further don't blame your bad behavior on your wife. a lot of people a s****** marriages would consider you ungrateful. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Have you point blank asked her WHY she doesn't initiate?


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## rider03 (Apr 7, 2009)

@Clipclop...unless you've been there, don't be such a critic.

@John...I've been exactly where you are. In fact, my wife has NEVER initiated in 20+ years. For awhile, I dealt with it but like you, but man, it gets really old. And it makes you feel like she doesn't really want you. I know brother. It sucks. For me, it just went downhill until now we're at the point of probably getting a divorce.

For you, I'd suggest you address it with her NOW. Talk to her about it. Nicely. Ask if she'd be willing to go talk to a counselor or sex therapist for the both of you. My wife refused but hopefully yours won't.

Good luck.


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## -John- (May 10, 2011)

You're right to question what exactly i'm doing about it ClipClop but please get off your high horse. I don't for one moment believe that I'm perfect, I'm more flawed than my partner for sure and I'm very lucky to be with her, our physical relationship is going through a bad patch that's down to the behaviour of both of us, probably me more than her and that's why I'm here. 

As I put at the end of my first post I'm looking to try and sort it out now while I still have a relationship to work on. 
That's why I'm on this forum now, seems there are a lot of people with a wealth of experience and a wealth of problems willing to share their experience.

Thankyou rider03 I'm gona try my best to sort things out. I hope you can take your relationship from the brink of divorce.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I'll tell you what helps me initiate. 

If I feel very sexy. (This means he lets me know how sexy I am and isn't perving on every other woman he sees).

If I trust him.(He hasn't cheated or let me down).

If I feel I won't be rejected.(I know men fear rejection too, but women have been raised to not be as sexual as men and it is a very big deal to initiate for some of us).

If I feel turned on by him. This means that he is doing things to turn me on outside of the bedroom, acting in a manly fashion, being a little aggressive (in a good way) Takes charge of things. All of that is very sexy to me and leads me to feel excited to be with him.

If he treats me very well generally, is thoughtful.

He tells me what he finds sexy and asks for certain things- for example tells me he would like to see me wear something. That turns me on and makes me want to please him and initiate.

Lots of non sexual touching. This helps me feel close to him.

Sexual touching and flirting way before we get to the bedroom. This is really important to getting me in the mood.

This is just what helps my sexual attraction. Thought it might help.


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## meridian.1960 (Apr 22, 2011)

-John- said:


> we used to have fun


I would start here.

Spice up your life out side of the bedroom, and life inside the bedroom will get better too.

To change her behavior requires that you change yours.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

All you can change is their behavior, you can't change how they feel about you. You *CAN'T* 'create' desire out of nothing.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Go to the Men's Clubhouse section and read the Man Up / Niceguy thread with the links there. Also, check out Married Man Sex Life for some tips.

Basically, you have to stop chasing sex. If you focus on you and your general relationship, it's possible your wife will be more attracted to you.

Also, you may need to adjust your expectations. Women are programmed to respond to the advances of men. They don't naturally initiate. It's also common for them to initiate in ways that aren't really initiating. I know that's frustrating, but you either have to accept that your wife's touching you on the upper arm for 3 seconds means she wants sex, or you have to express to her how angry it makes you that she won't touch your naughty bits to initiate.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Yeah not so much. I tired of doing 100% of the work and guess what, it stopped happening in total. I told her all this stuff over and over. Her response was "I'm the girl, this is your job" (her word - 'job'). Well if it's my job I quit. And I did.


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## meridian.1960 (Apr 22, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> All you can change is their behavior, you can't change how they feel about you. You can 'create' desire out of nothing.




I respectively disagree; it’s pretty rare that the feelings of love are lost, they are just discarded.

Your wife viewed you as the man she wanted to marry and spend her life with at the beginning, she changed that view, she can change it right back, when you change what you did, and caused her to view you as a man she no longer desires. That is unless it’s just too little, too late.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I didn't say they were lost. I said you can't change them. People are very simple to figure out. What's very difficult is figuring ourselves out. I am sure my wife's feelings have not changed since day 1. All that's different is that I finally recognize that.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

I get the impression that no woman initiates sex ever so maybe your relationship is just normal?


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

steak said:


> I get the impression that no woman initiates sex ever so maybe your relationship is just normal?


Yes, some women do initiate sex, but in general, women respond to men, sexually. We're kind of built that way. And women don't respond to just anything, but to specific behaviors. Hence why Athol's blog(as PHT mentioned) is a godsend for so many marriages. He spells out in detail exactly what women respond to.


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## meridian.1960 (Apr 22, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I didn't say they were lost. I said you can't change them. People are very simple to figure out. What's very difficult is figuring ourselves out. I am sure my wife's feelings have not changed since day 1. All that's different is that I finally recognize that.



I believe you can, my wife and I got to a point that we could not stand each other. I had no love for her, or her me, on the outside.

Thats no longer the case, it changed, I changed, her feelings changed, our behaviors changed.

Anything can change when people are open to it.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I was at that point, too. I decided that her not initiating and me being angry about our lack of sex was sort of a self fulfilling proposition.

So, I made it point to initiate whenever I wanted sex and forced my wife to say no. Surprisingly, she said yes more than I expected.

Don't wait for her. Initiate yourself. It's not a case of who initiates, it's what happens after that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

John I am just like your wife and until I read post on this forum of the effect that it has on men I admit I was totally cluless about the importance of intiating Now that I know, I am trying to initiate but it is very difficult. My attempts are worse than what your wife does. . In fact they are rather anemic. One thing that is helping is that my husband may be frustrated but he has never shows it or anger or threaten to cheat if I did not improve. Instead he has always been welcoming and complimentary and a little playful. 

I had a religious upbringing and a bad experience as a young teen so I was very inhibited when we first got married. If he had been a different type of man, I would have shut down. As it is I am now quite adventurous and all because his attitude was always encouraging and welcoming. There are still areas that need work like intiating but i am trying. 

I think frustration is natural when you are not getting what you want sexually but it is counterproductive. Anger and demands and threats to cheat or leave are deadly. I am not saying that you do these things. Only saying that any indication that you are unhappy with what she is sxually may evoke a resistance instead of improvent. 

What you are doing is not working so you need to change your approach it seems. . 

Unlike me, your wife was at one time a good partner for you. Can you think of why she may have changed. It could be a change in the nature of the relationship outside of the bedroom. Maybe you pushed too much for more and seemed not to appreciate what was doing already. Why is the way she initiates not satisfactory. Are you watching porn and becoming arroused by the enthusiasm a porn actrice shows. 

If so, real women don't act like porn actresses, it makes women feel cheapened when men expect that. Also, do you think you can find a women who you can form the type of relationship you have with your wife and she does exactly what you want. 

You may but, if you want to leave the relationship over her not initiating sex exactly the way you want, it may be difficult to attract and hold the passion of a women because of your exacting requirements. When mutual satisfaction is overlooked and is focused on the man's sexual satisfaction that needs to follow a sript, it is less about the sexuality of the woman he is with. That alone kills sexual attraction. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

-John- said:


> You're right to question what exactly i'm doing about it ClipClop but please get off your high horse. I don't for one moment believe that I'm perfect, I'm more flawed than my partner for sure and I'm very lucky to be with her, our physical relationship is going through a bad patch that's down to the behaviour of both of us, probably me more than her and that's why I'm here.
> 
> As I put at the end of my first post I'm looking to try and sort it out now while I still have a relationship to work on.
> That's why I'm on this forum now, seems there are a lot of people with a wealth of experience and a wealth of problems willing to share their experience.
> ...



Read this book

Amazon.com: Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships (9780393334272): David Schnarch: Books

It is a good book.


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## blondebombshell (May 2, 2011)

steak said:


> I get the impression that no woman initiates sex ever so maybe your relationship is just normal?


That's a load of crap. I initiate sex and get rejected all the time lol.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

I initiate, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Steak You have to remember who is posting on the forum, if your conclusion is based upon what you read here. The people who post are having problems that they are trying to work through. Many men who post have similar problems and that gives the impression of it representing the population. 

Keeping that in mind, may lessen your feelings of futility and you can at lest try to change the situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HelloooNurse (Apr 12, 2010)

Does it really matter who initiates the sex? I mean, if you have sex in the end, then its all good right? As long as the job gets done, then everybody is happy. If you don't ask for sex, you don't get sex. Its quite simple really. If you want her to be gagging for it every single day, maybe you should have chosen someone who was gagging for sex since day 1. There are plenty of people like that around in this day and age unfortunately.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

HelloooNurse said:


> *Does it really matter who initiates the sex?* I mean, if you have sex in the end, then its all good right? As long as the job gets done, then everybody is happy. If you don't ask for sex, you don't get sex. Its quite simple really. If you want her to be gagging for it every single day, maybe you should have chosen someone who was gagging for sex since day 1. There are plenty of people like that around in this day and age unfortunately.


Maybe men want to feel desired sexually sometimes as well?

Maybe if the man is always the one initiating sex he is gonna eventually think that he desires her alot more than she desires him?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Yeah it matters. I already have a job. Don't need another. Either you're into it or not, and if you're not don't bother me. Thanks. 

Ever try to start an old cold VW Beetle in the winter and no matter how many times you twist the key the damn thing won't turn over? So you get out and push-roll start it? Well that works, assuming you're not trying to push it uphill. So you CAN get it started and you putter off. But do you want to do that EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMN TIME?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Wow, not even close to an appropriate analogy. She doesn't turn him down and I bet the effort expended initiating isn't high.

I'm with Nurse. This just seems like looking for a problem. If she shows affection outside the BR and doesn't turn him down inside, maybe examining expectations and a little IC is in order.

Marriage is a lot more than this. If her idea of initiating is the leg thing then she does initiate. Everyone has their own style. And like someone else said, find a way to have fun together. Be passionate in all of your life. Don't wait for it to come to you. Passion is infectious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> Wow, not even close to an appropriate analogy. She doesn't turn him down and I bet the effort expended initiating isn't high.
> 
> I'm with Nurse. This just seems like looking for a problem. If she shows affection outside the BR and doesn't turn him down inside, maybe examining expectations and a little IC is in order.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> Wow, not even close to an appropriate analogy. She doesn't turn him down and I bet the effort expended initiating isn't high.
> 
> *I'm with Nurse. This just seems like looking for a problem. * If she shows affection outside the BR and doesn't turn him down inside, maybe examining expectations and a little IC is in order.
> 
> ...


Ok, how would you women feel if your husband never initiated sex? 

Would you still think it's not a big deal and that aslong as you have sex in the end it's all ok? 

I doub't it.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

That was my point. The exactly specifics don't matter. The expectation I'm an employee is what matters.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I've never understood people being dissatisfied with WHO is initiating sex.

It really makes absolutely no difference to me if I initiate or my husband initiates.

My issues are the constant rejection - not who is making the first move.

If she's not turning you down and you're getting the amount of sex you want - who cares who is throwing the first pitch?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Those are the same issue. If I'm doing 100% of the work, then she's doing 100% of the permission.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I've never understood people being dissatisfied with WHO is initiating sex.
> 
> It really makes absolutely no difference to me if I initiate or my husband initiates.
> 
> ...


So if your husband NEVER initiates and you are ALWAYS the one who initiates you would be ok with that?


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

steak said:


> Ok, how would you women feel if your husband never initiated sex?
> 
> Would you still think it's not a big deal and that aslong as you have sex in the end it's all ok?
> 
> I doub't it.


I've been that woman...sometimes I still am. It's frustrating.

As far as, "it's no big deal as long as you have sex in the end", well, for me, it kind of is a big deal. I want to feel desired. And being pursued is a part of that. I don't doubt that men want to feel that their wives *actually* _want_ them as well.

Having said that, though, there are things *I* can do as the HD spouse, to encourage my spouse to initiate. The right amount of flirting, seducing, and teasing throughout the day pays off and it goes for both sexes, men and women.

A spouse will never initiate if he/she isn't thinking about sex. If you can get them thinking about it, though, put it in their mind and feed the idea, well then, you may have a spouse who is ready to initiate(barring inhibition). Actions and thoughts influence desire.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

No one NEVER turns you down. Let's be clear.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

She DOES initiate. She just doesn't do it in the way you want her to do it. Touching you on your thigh is her initating. She is telling you in her own way that she wants you to make love to her and you reject it. 

Do you think this will make her MORE likely to initiate in a more aggressive way or less likely? If you don't even appreciate what she DOES do, why should she do more? Maybe showing her you appreciate her effort, no matter how small, will inspire her to do more.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

MGirl said:


> As far as, "it's no big deal as long as you have sex in the end", well, for me, it kind of is a big deal. I want to feel desired. And being pursued is a part of that. *I don't doubt that men want to feel that their wives *actually* want them as well*.


Most women obviously don't want to... want their man.

Or should I say.

Most women don't want their man sexually and thats why they don't initiate. Period.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

themrs said:


> She DOES initiate. She just doesn't do it in the way you want her to do it. Touching you on your thigh is her initating. She is telling you in her own way that she wants you to make love to her and you reject it.
> 
> Do you think this will make her MORE likely to initiate in a more aggressive way or less likely? If you don't even appreciate what she DOES do, why should she do more? Maybe showing her you appreciate her effort, no matter how small, will inspire her to do more.


:iagree::iagree:

There you go.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

steak said:


> Most women obviously don't want to... want their man.
> 
> Or should I say.
> 
> Most women don't want their man sexually and thats why they don't initiate. Period.


That's so false. Women are used to being pursued. We do not HAVE to initiate EVER before getting married. At least, I didn't. As a matter of fact, my mother used to say to me "The bee goes to the flower; the flower does not go to the bee." The woman being the flower in that scenerio. 

Anyway, a woman's way of initiating sex usually doesn't look like a man's way. A woman's way is much more subtle and generally she is trying to get HIM to come to her without having to drag him into the bedroom. Basically, a woman's way of initiating is letting him know she's available. Another thing my mom used to say was, "It's a man's job to ask and a woman's job to answer." I wasn't raised that it was my position to ask a man to marry me or have sex with me. All I had to do was answer when he asked me. 

Being aggressive when it comes to sex is not seen as feminine or lady like. I'm not saying women can't or shouldn't just throw caution to the wind and just jump on her man and start riding him. What I'm saying is that that isn't in most women's nature and you have to be patient and supportive when you want someone to change.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

steak said:


> Most women obviously don't want to... want their man.
> 
> Or should I say.
> 
> Most women don't want their man sexually and thats why they don't initiate. Period.


I think I may have emphasized the wrong words. I was trying to say that men often FEEL that their wives don't want them. Not that their wives don't actually want them, but that the wife is being so subtle that the husband isn't picking up on it and then FEELS that she does not desire him. The H needs to recognize the ways his wife initiates and the W may need to step up and make her advances more obvious.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

themrs said:


> That's so false. Women are used to being pursued. We do not HAVE to initiate EVER before getting married. At least, I didn't. As a matter of fact, my mother used to say to me "The bee goes to the flower; the flower does not go to the bee." The woman being the flower in that scenerio.
> 
> Anyway, a woman's way of initiating sex usually doesn't look like a man's way. A woman's way is much more subtle and generally she is trying to get HIM to come to her without having to drag him into the bedroom. Basically, a woman's way of initiating is letting him know she's available. Another thing my mom used to say was, "It's a man's job to ask and a woman's job to answer." I wasn't raised that it was my position to ask a man to marry me or have sex with me. All I had to do was answer when he asked me.
> 
> Being aggressive when it comes to sex is not seen as feminine or lady like. I'm not saying women can't or shouldn't just throw caution to the wind and just jump on her man and start riding him. What I'm saying is that that isn't in most women's nature and you have to be patient and supportive when you want someone to change.


Giving subtle signs is *not* initiating. 

I understand what you are saying though.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

We would like some initiation to show interest in us, everyone both M and W needs to feel some desire every now and then. I will add that after years of initiation by me which resulted in dead fish sex it gets old and not enjoyable anymore.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

MGirl said:


> I think I may have emphasized the wrong words. *I was trying to say that men often FEEL that their wives don't want them.* Not that their wives don't actually want them, but that the wife is being so subtle that the husband isn't picking up on it and then FEELS that she does not desire him. The H needs to recognize the ways his wife initiates and the W may need to step up and make her advances more obvious.


Well that's no suprise really considering that women either act like they don't want their husbands... or just genuinly don't want their husbands.

Either way, it's gonna make the man feel like his wife don't want him.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

steak said:


> Giving subtle signs is *not* initiating.
> 
> I understand what you are saying though.


We must have different definitions. I though to initiate something mean to start it off. Like to begin doing something. If her touching his thigh (albeit subtle) is the beginning of them having sex, then she initiated sex with him. 

I understand that most men would not see this as an initiation, but it is regardless of how you try to spin it. It was the _start_ of what will eventually be sex.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

steak said:


> Either way, it's gonna make the man feel like his wife don't want him.


Exactly, which is why I think some women need to learn to step up and make it more obvious. 

But, as themrs said, it



themrs said:


> isn't in most women's nature and you have to be patient and supportive when you want someone to change.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

themrs said:


> We must have different definitions. I though to initiate something mean to start it off. Like to begin doing something. If her touching his thigh (albeit subtle) is the beginning of them having sex, then she initiated sex with him.
> 
> I understand that most men would not see this as an initiation, but it is regardless of how you try to spin it. It was the _start_ of what will eventually be sex.



Would you consider it initiating if the man just gave a subtle sign such as touching the thigh?


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

steak said:


> Would you consider it initiating if the man just gave a subtle sign such as touching the thigh?


Hell yeah! If my husband came up to me while I was watching tv and started rubbing on my thigh I would assume he wanted to have sex with me. Why else would he be doing this? 

Actually, I would prefer him being a little more refined with his advances than coming up behind me with a hard on and rubbing himself on my behind. It's garish.

But he's a man, so I accept that men aren't as delicate as women when it comes to such things. Why can't men accept that women ARE? 

Honestly, men come to TAM all the time complaining that they tire of women trying to change them and wish they would just ACCEPT that they need sex to feel loved etc. I don't understand why some men can't accept that the way in which a woman initiates sex doesn't look like the way a man does it but it doesn't make it less - just different.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

MGirl said:


> Exactly, which is why I think some women need to learn to step up and make it more obvious.
> 
> But, as themrs said, it


I've never been in a relationship but I'd say though that, I don't think that women will "step up" and start initiating sex anytime soon... not in our lifetime.

Hell maybe even never.

It's fun to debate about it though.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

steak said:


> I've never been in a relationship but I'd say though that, I don't think that women will "step up" and start initiating sex anytime soon... not in our lifetime.
> 
> Hell maybe even never.
> 
> It's fun to debate about it though.


I initiate sex with my husband (in the way he wants) all the time. As a matter of fact, the last time we had sex I came in the room naked while he was watching tv, jumped on him and started giving him a bj. Then I just led him to the bedroom and we went at it.

I have no problem initiating in this way from time to time, but it feels more natural to me if I just come up to him and kiss him passionately.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Steak, if you've never been in a relationship, your opinion loses any cred. Further if you enter a relationship with these kinds of false beliefs, your relationship will be in jeopardy from the start.

This isn't a fun to debate site. The poster has an issue. It doesn't help perpetuating false notions about women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

themrs said:


> Hell yeah! If my husband came up to me while I was watching tv and started rubbing on my thigh I would assume he wanted to have sex with me. Why else would he be doing this?
> 
> Actually, I would prefer him being a little more refined with his advances than coming up behind me with a hard on and rubbing himself on my behind. It's garish.
> 
> ...


I understand this completely. Women don't generally respond well to their husbands' blunt displays of communication when it comes to sex. Men, in turn, should adjust their communication so that women will respond better and not feel used.

However, by that same token, shouldn't women adjust their display of communication occasionally in order to meet their husbands' need to feel desired? You prefer your husband to be more refined, he prefers you to be more enthusiastic/obvious. There's improvement to be made on both sides.

I've been both the LD and the HD spouse in my marriage, so I have a good feeling for what it's like to be on either side of this.

And BTW, I think you walking up to your husband and passionately kissing him is quite an appropriate way to initiate.  I can't imagine many men complaining about that. I guess I'm referring to women who put a single hand on their husband's leg for 5 seconds and expect him to jump up and get excited. Or make eye contact and expect him to read her mind. It may be her way of showing initiation, but it's not creating much a feeling of being desired on the husband's part.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> Further if you enter a relationship with these kinds of false beliefs, your relationship will be in jeopardy from the start.


How So?



> This isn't a fun to debate site. The poster has an issue. It doesn't help perpetuating false notions about women.


I don't know about false notions... Seems to me like every other guy complains about his wife/girlfriend not initiating sex.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

steak said:


> How So?
> 
> I don't know about false notions... Seems to me like every other guy complains about his wife/girlfriend not initiating sex.


The majority of the people on these forums are having problems. The ones without problems, whose wives initiate, who have great sex lives, whose marriages are going well...they are not the majority here. So you'll see a lot of issues here, but it's not representative of *every single marriage* out there. Not every spouse cheats, not all women refuse sex, not all men are doormats, etc etc.

And don't make assumptions based on something you've never been through. Just my advice.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Think about who posts and who doesn't and you'll understand what is leading you to another false conclusion.

It is not appropriate to hijack this thread for further discussion of your false beliefs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

MGirl said:


> I understand this completely. Women don't generally respond well to their husbands' blunt displays of communication when it comes to sex. Men, in turn, should adjust their communication so that women will respond better and not feel used.
> 
> However, by that same token, shouldn't women adjust their display of communication occasionally in order to meet their husbands' need to feel desired? You prefer your husband to be more refined, he prefers you to be more enthusiastic/obvious. There's improvement to be made on both sides.
> 
> ...


Good point. I'm not saying that a wife shouldn't step up to the plate and give her husband what he wants in the way he wants it. I'm just saying that we need to accept each other and not just expect that a person will give you what you want in exactly the WAY you want it. 

I understand the frustration with this as I am having a hard time accepting the way my husband apologizes to me (with deeds and not words). There are times when a spouse doesn't want to guess how their partner feels, they just want to know. I totally get that.

But I think the bigger picture is not getting frustrated when a person is doing their best. That doesn't mean they can't do better, it just means at this point in time that's all they have to give. The OP should accept that at this moment in time the best his wife can do is rub his thigh as an indication that she wants him. He should take that in the way she intended him to receive it - that she desires him. I know that's not an easy thing to do (like I said, it's something I struggle with as well) but he shouldn't retreat and get mad. Who knows? Maybe it took all the courage she had just to do _that_!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

themrs said:


> She DOES initiate. She just doesn't do it in the way you want her to do it. Touching you on your thigh is her initating.



Lame. A unicorn farted a rainbow in Malaysia last week. What do you mean you didn't understand that obviously clear signal. What are you, retarded?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

John, I am late to this thread but but but... please stay off the dating/hooker sites. For real. 
You are playing w/ fire.
How about tell your wife straight up this is having a bad affect and making you want to start looking elsewhere. That will wake her up, I am sure of it.
I know for me personally I get way turned on when my partner is being romantic (flowers, wining me, saying how nice I look, etc). Women like and need romance. romance leads to sex 
And I disagree about women not responding to men's bluntess about se x. I personally would rather my partner tell me straight up what he wants and how and actually it's a turn on.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> And I disagree about women not responding to men's bluntess about sex. I personally would rather my partner tell me straight up what he wants and how and actually it's a turn on.


Me too, but it seems that most women don't like it...the majority of women on here say it's a big turn off. I think we're in the minority, Jellybeans


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

Runs like Dog said:


> Lame. A unicorn farted a rainbow in Malaysia last week. What do you mean you didn't understand that obviously clear signal. What are you, retarded?


Wow. Your bitterness almost punched me in the face with this post. Are you having an extra hard day today?


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

MGirl said:


> Me too, but it seems that most women don't like it...the majority of women on here say it's a big turn off. I think we're in the minority, Jellybeans


I like variety. Sometimes nice and sometimes naughty. I hate the same old record being played over and over. It gets boring to me.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

And I like the hard-on approach, too. Romance is good. Directness is good. Getting upset because a move isn't up to your standards, not so good.

If you have guts don't tell her you've thought about going outside, tell her you have added dating profiles and looked up hookers. As though someone faking interest coz you paid them fulfills this overwhelming desire for Passion and someone else initiating.

Men forget what they did to woo and win a woman once they marry. Woo her again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MGirl said:


> Me too, but it seems that most women don't like it...the majority of women on here say it's a big turn off. I think we're in the minority, Jellybeans


LOL. You may be onto something!


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> Men forget what they did to woo and win a woman once they marry. Woo her again.


So the man has to put in all the effort?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

themrs No. But calling a 'signal' only you get is almost vanity. People have to stop this vague nonsense even if all you do is say "turn off the TV" and wink.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

steak said:


> So the man has to put in all the effort?


 S this is one half of what may work to improve things. It is a strategy to get things moving. Why see it as man pitted against women. 

We each have to take into account our different natures. If does the "work" of romancing her, she may "work" to overcome her inhibitions and have the courage to initiate with passion. 

Can you not look at every encounter between men and women as a battle for who should be affronted?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

You know what? Drop the word initiate. Bill2011 is right. Forget the mechanics. All I want is ANY positive feedback she's even remotely interested w/o my prompting. That is it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

Runs like Dog said:


> themrs No. But calling a 'signal' only you get is almost vanity. People have to stop this vague nonsense even if all you do is say "turn off the TV" and wink.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I respectfully disagree. The operative word being _respectfully_.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> S this is one half of what may work to improve things. It is a strategy to get things moving. Why see it as man pitted against women.


The problem is, I've seen it plenty of times.

"men take it easier when married" 

"the man doesn't put in as much effort when married" 

"the man isn't as romantic when married because he has gotten her"

I've seen things like that been said alot... And I don't get it. What do you want? That the man always puts in as much effort as he did when her pursued the woman? 

The thing is, in the dating stages the man puts in all the effort... seems kinda unfair that the man has to put in all the effort even when married.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

steak said:


> The problem is, I've seen it plenty of times.
> 
> "men take it easier when married"
> 
> ...


Why is that unfair? That's like saying a woman who put a lot of effort into her appearance before she was married should be able to let herself go once she's married. She should still put effort into looking nice for him right? I mean, that's what attracted him in the first place.

The same should be expected from men.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

themrs said:


> Why is that unfair? That's like saying a woman who put a lot of effort into her appearance before she was married should be able to let herself go once she's married. She should still put effort into looking nice for him right? I mean, that's what attracted him in the first place.
> 
> The same should be expected from men.


It's unfair because the man puts in ALOT more effort in total.

The effort you put in your appearance is not much considering men put in all the other effort + effort into appearance.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

steak said:


> It's unfair because the man puts in ALOT more effort in total.
> 
> The effort you put in your appearance is not much considering men put in all the other effort + effort into appearance.


One of the few things I have learned in my limited experience is that what is equal isn't always what is fair. 

A man putting just as much effort into his appearance as a woman does her's is equal. But, women don't place as much value on appearance as men because men are more visual. So you can't relate the two. 

The same goes with men putting more effort into romancing their wives than men do romancing their husbands. The two can put equal effort into buying flowers, going out on dates, etc, but a woman will more likely place a higher value on these things than a man would. I'm not saying that he wouldn't appreciate the flowers, just probably not as much as his wife would.

Men and women are different. It is what it is. As a woman I don't expect or want my husband to treat me in the same way that I would him and vice versa. To me, that's like ignoring the fact that we're different.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I think both men and women want their spouses to find them desirable and to act on it. As a woman, and I will admit that I am a LD one at that, in the past I have found it difficult to initiate. I think that there are a lot of cultural issues for women, and I think that women are biologically 'wired' to be more receptive than initiative. But, if you initiate, and your spouse enthusiastically goes along, where is the harm in that?

Also, I have found in my marriage that I am trying to be not only more receptive to my DH, but I have been more initiative as well over the last year. Ultimately, it is a decision that you can make. Even a LD wife like me can DECIDE to "take the bull by the horns" and just do it. Funnily, I have found that my DH often gives very subtle hints. I have found that it is just easier to tease him a little bit early in the day, and then in the evening when we have time to not be subtle about it at all.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Honestly, anyone who suggests one sex puts in more relational effort is judging by stereotypes or bogus info.

Relationships are different based on who is in them. There are guys who are very relnship oriented and there are women who are. Occasionally it is more equal, but usually not.

But the best way to keep a marriage healthy is to never stop dating. Remember how easily it can all go away, and how if you don't step up, someone else might come along and do it in place of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

This couple stopped dating. They need to go back to that and since he's the one who has a problem with how things are, he's got to INITIATE change.

If that appears unfair Steak, welcome to adulthood. This is where you attempt to make your life and you accept responsibility for where you find yourself. You realize it is up to you to change the dynamic and see if the other person changes, too. That's growing together. Score keeping is for sports, not marriage.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

themrs said:


> I respectfully disagree. The operative word being _respectfully_.


Here's the deal. All marriages have a flow, a frequency, a familiarity. I can tell what my wife is thinking inside of 1 second just by looking at her face. After 30+ years I should hope so. So if the subtle little touch was something that was in our flow, we wouldn't be having this thread at all. I would know, she would know, clawing the sheets oh god oh god oh god etc etc. Assuming of course she has any measurable desire at all, which....at this point is an open question. 

In any case, if I or she suddenly stopped doing what was in our flow and adopted something else, something that was new or different and JUST AS vague and ineffable, then what other possible outcome can you expect? If you decided that instead of gently biting your husband's lip as an indication for sex, you now tugged on your right earlobe do you really think he'd have any earthly clue what you were doing? So you have two choices; 1) go back to whatever worked before, assuming something did, or 2) grab his face with both your hands look in his eyes and say 'tugging my earlobe means I want to ride you like a rented mule right now, dearie'.

_That_ we understand. You don't really have to 'initiate' anything. All you have to do is present some recognizable indication that you're thinking about it and not cabbage soup or what color to paint the bathroom.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> Honestly, anyone who suggests one sex puts in more relational effort is judging by stereotypes or bogus info.


I judge it by facts. Men initiate and plan all dates, Men initiate all contact(texts,calls,emails), Men initiate all forms of physical intimacy and affection, If there's a problem in the relationship it's always the man that try's to fix it, It's the man who pushes the relationship to go further by pushing for exclusivity/marriage, It's the man who does the romancing... Meanwhile women are more passive, timid and really don't do much except sit and look pretty and respond to the mans advances.



> But the best way to keep a marriage healthy is to never stop dating. Remember how easily it can all go away, and how if you don't step up, someone else might come along and do it in place of you.


The reason men put in all the effort is because women more often than not have the "if he wants me he is gonna have to work his ass off to get me" attitude, so in the dating stages the man does the pursuing and by doing that he does infact put in all the effort. 

Why should the man continue to pursue the woman and put in all the effort even in marriage? Personally if I have "gotten" a woman I'd rather not have to chase her forever... I'd rather leave.




> This couple stopped dating. They need to go back to that and since he's the one who has a problem with how things are, he's got to INITIATE change.


True



> If that appears unfair Steak, welcome to adulthood. This is where you attempt to make your life and you accept responsibility for where you find yourself. You realize it is up to you to change the dynamic and see if the other person changes, too. That's growing together.


In the OP's case I guess it's not unfair. However personally, I wouldn't bother to "change the dynamic" by trying to get a woman to initiate sex for example. It would take away the whole purpose of it, because then she would be initiating because I wanted not because she wanted to.

Like I said in my first post in this thread, it seems pretty normal, the vast vast majority of all women will never initiate sex no matter what(even when married) so it's not like he's the only one with a woman who doesn't initiate.




> Score keeping is for sports, not marriage.


It's easy for you to say that, you are a woman, you have it much easier when it comes to relationships.


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## Nickitta (May 12, 2011)

> I'm always the one to initiate sex in our relationship and


I am a woman and knows exactly how you feel. I am the one who initiates sex all the time. Although my husband doesn't refuse sex when I ask for it, it would be nice to feel wanted.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

Men want sex and women need affection before giving themselves.

Do you make your wife feel wanted by acting out on the small things that matter to her in her daily life but don't always lead to, or mean sex?

Some men work hard all day or spend their time out with friends or time invested in sport but in the process neglect their spouses. It's subtle but to a woman it can mean terrible neglect and selfishness because hubby comes home and then at the end of the day EXPECTS sex when he has done everything to turn his woman OFF him. Resentment builds and she wants to avoid you and thus avoid sex. It's really that simple.

Focus your energies on learning what makes her feel happy and the rest will fall into place. 

A happy wife usually means she wants her husband. An unhappy wife can internalise her feelings because her needs are not met by her husband and that can result in her withdrawing quietly from the relationship and also from initating sex.

Think back to the early days of your relationship and re-kindle your relationship without expecting sex. Sex, love, passion are a natural byproduct of a husband who cares about his wife. 

A husband who neglects his wife in favour of himself will never endure a fulfilling relationship because his wife is fundamentally unhappy.

She needs affection and that often comes whilst spending quality time with her without expectations. The rest usually follows naturally including initiating sex.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Steak, you are clueless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

steak said:


> I judge it by facts. Men initiate and plan all dates, Men initiate all contact(texts,calls,emails), Men initiate all forms of physical intimacy and affection, If there's a problem in the relationship it's always the man that try's to fix it, It's the man who pushes the relationship to go further by pushing for exclusivity/marriage, It's the man who does the romancing... Meanwhile women are more passive, timid and really don't do much except sit and look pretty and respond to the mans advances.



OMG ... I don't know what kind of women you've been around but you are SO FAR from what most women today feel and do. In my marriage it's been the total opposite ...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

steak said:


> So if your husband NEVER initiates and you are ALWAYS the one who initiates you would be ok with that?


Was and have.

I've been initiating pretty much 100% for the last 12 years.

And no - I don't have a single issue with it, never have.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Nickitta said:


> I am a woman and knows exactly how you feel. I am the one who initiates sex all the time. Although my husband doesn't refuse sex when I ask for it, it would be nice to feel wanted.


And that's where I see a disconnect.

If you initiative and he TURNED YOU DOWN, rejected you - then you would have reason to not feel wanted.

But if you initiate and he accepts - then it's obvious - to me, by his acceptance that he does want you.

I don't understand WHO initiatives first = want/desire.

I do understand REJECTION though - I experience it a lot.

But initiation - like I said before - I don't care - him/me, doesn't matter - what matters is the rejection, not who reaches out first.


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

If my husband can't or won't act like he wants me, then why on earth should I act like I want him? Our sex life has sucked throughout our whole marriage because he seems to be totally asexual. Told our counselor he's just never liked it all that much. So why should I waste my time?


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