# Do fathers ever get custody?



## Chris Smith (Jun 8, 2015)

Is there any real chance of a father actually getting custody of children if he is truly the more competent, involved parent?

I am in such a situation. I get one of my kids ready for school and take her every morning. The other child (we have two) is home schooled and take care of 100 percent of his lessons.

Furthermore, I do 95% of the cooking, laundry and cleaning (or hire it done.)

I take my kids to all their extra activities.

If there is a birthday party, I take kids.

I don’t think she’s ever read them a book.

I take my kids to church. Wife stays home.

She has NEVER gotten them completely ready for school by herself. Not one time. Even if I’m sick, I help.

I am the sole earner. My wife stays home.

Many times I’ll come home for lunch to monitor my homeschooled son and will find my wife still in bed. If I don’t come home, he usually has to fix his own lunch.

My wife is completely disengaged from the family. She used to be involved with school (she was pta president) and church (she did nursery every Sunday morning) and with other activities. Now she goes out with “friends” that have not kids, they have crappy marriages, and I get griped out if question this. 

Is she depressed? Yes. She is on medication. She also has Rheumatoid Arthritis. She’s in pain. 

I could deal with that. I promised to love her sickness and health after all. I’d bear all the load I am bearing now. But along with all this, she nags me all the time. The yard always needs mowing. The garage is a mess. (How can I do this when I am cooking and cleaning all the time?) 

She claims I am controlling. Here evidence is that I don’t like her smoking and I think she should quit. I think she “goes out” too much. She regularly stays up all night. She claims I tell her what to do all the time. She does not like that I cook and clean and that is me controlling her. (When she is too cook, pizza usually shows up.)
But she travels (three “scrapbooking weekends the last three months and she has visited her biological family clear across the country 5 times in the last 5 years. Sometimes for over two weeks.)

She has her own bank account and her own credit card that I do not have access to.

I don’t keep her from her family or her friends. I don’t control her money. 

I could go on.

I feel badly about her illnesses. She is getting all the treatment possible for it. Yet at the same time I can’t take all the fighting. I can’t take her accusing me of being “controlling.” I also can’t take her yelling and cussing at my son anymore either. Everything I do is wrong. My 12 year old son sees what is going on. 

The reality is that I want out. I can't believe it but I do. But I don’t want to lose my kids. I really believe that she could not handle the children and a job (which I’d guess the court would ask her to get.) You can’t be a single mom and sleep till noon and go out with friends all the time.

We have gone to counseling. My wife hates it because she perceives that the counselor is on my side. I also made the arrangement, which makes her mad. I’ve told her to get a different one of her choosing, but she will not.

So, assuming all this is true, and that I can prove it, what are my chances of getting my kids? I’d like to “share” custody…give their mother equal authority, but have them live with me.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Yes you can. You should be able to get 50% without a lot of trouble with documentation assuming you stay in the same area and such. If she fights you on custody and you want more, you are going to have to be willing to fight and spend A LOT to convince the court you are the more able parent and/or she is unfit for 1/2 custody. Find and talk to a good lawyer - a couple - before you do anything. Pay for some counceltations to get a realistic picture. You probably need to push her to get a job before you file anything otherwise fair chance your going to have to support her "in her current lifestyle". 

Last 2 cents for now. For more than 50% it will be an uphill battle. (Most states in US) Decide how far and hard you are willing to go and what you are willing to do. It can be done. I'm male and I have full physical and "shared" legal custody of my 2. But I will be honest and admit/say that I went on an all out take no prisoners legal assault - and almost $100K - and that was more than 10 years ago. My Ex hates my guts (her family doesn't - they know it was best for the kids and do see/have contact) It bankrupted me. It was worth every penny and pain.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes, fathers can get custody. My ex husband has 100% custody of his two children.

Your son is 12. How old is your daughter?

How long have you been married?

The most likely scenario is that you will get 50/50 custody.

If your wife does not work, where does she get money from to have her own bank account and her own credit card?

Divorce law is state specific. So without knowing your state any info people give will be just general.

The divorce laws for your state are online. Do a search. You can usually find a lot of sites that discuss divorce law and it's application where you live.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I have custody of my kids. Its hard to do but its well worth it. 

Clay


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## Kitt (Jun 3, 2015)

She doesn't work but you do work and also do all the child rearing/ homeschooling/homemaking...how is that even happening? What were you thinking while allowing that to be your life? Did I read that wrong? 
Before you divorce her...make her get a full time job for six months or more so she won't get alimony and you won't be seen as the secondary parent. Whoever stays home with the kids are who generally gets primary custody in my observations.


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## gettingout (Jan 15, 2013)

Get a good attorney. And I say this as someone whose STBX does not do 10% of what you do (why I am fighting him) but I have a female friends married or involved later with guys like you - so I know you exist and are not unicorns  

(mine only wants custody to limits CS)


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## May1968 (Dec 16, 2014)

Many years ago I gt custody, mainly becaus my ex screwed up so many times with her choices of boyfriends/husband (drugs and other questionable activitie).

My lawyer asked me if I wanted revenge or custody; said if I wanted revenge get another lawyer, if I wanted custody or better visitation she would help me. Once we started she said not to even bring up child support because that could be turned against me as a reason why I wanted custody.

I did get custody and never asked for child support because I never wanted her to have a financial reason to go for custody. Also she never went back to court because there could be a chance I would then ask for support. I was just glad she had to pay half the airfare to get to her.

My attorney was wise in what she did because everything worked out


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## Chris Smith (Jun 8, 2015)

Thank you all for the replies. My kids are 12 and 9. We live in Texas and have been married 17 years. 

My wife, kids and I all have an "allowance" that we spend as we wish. Also, over the years my wife has sold bags and make up. She's had a bank account for the purpose of those businesses. 

Those endeavors have cost us thousands, and she finally quit. I have no idea what the state of those accounts are now. 

I really don't want a divorce, I want my wife to engage her family. I am tired of it being the three of us and her. (She even will go lay in bed to eat dinner while the rest of us eat together.)

But I don't know what else to do. I know she's depressed. But she's on medication. I know she has RA, and we spare no expense in treating it. (We've spent over 5,000 this year in copayments and deductibles on her illness.) We have started hiring someone to clean the house. (My mother in law pays for this. I think she sees me exhausting myself.) I see her destroying herself. She has started smoking. She goes though bag after bag of candy. (She works out often and had lost a bunch of weight, but now she's gained it back and more.) She has quit everything that might make her happy. She used to be active in church and at our daughter's school (we were President and VPres of PTA). She has friends that don't help. She's had three friends in the last two years. One of those is divorced because of infidelity, one is divorced because she abused her husband (this one also was run out of town because of cocaine possession...no kidding.) She no longer has contact with those two, but the third has grown children and is in an unhappy marriage. I was incredibly unhappy with her running with a druggie and serial adulteress, but if I expressed concern, I was called "controlling" and accused of "not letting her be who she is." The problem is that she "needs" to have contact with friends. That's fine, but anyone who has enough time with her is also either childless or a remarkably bad mom and wife also.

On the other hand, the last two years of our lives should have been happy. I got a huge promotion at work, we've bought a McMansion, many good things are happening. We should be happy.

A new problem we are having is my son, who is very intuitive, pretty much hates his mother. He struggles with school sometimes, he is left to make his own lunch if I can't come home, he hears his mother cuss at him and me. My wife blames me for his behavior. She thinks I don't respect her and that translates into son not respecting her. Well, I don't respect her much. And he sees her in bed all day instead of being with him. And when I get home, several times a week, she's out the door to be with friends.

And I can't say anything. If I do, I am a controlling ******.

During our last fight, I told her that she wanted to act like a single, childless person. That pretty much sums it up. 

I promise you this, if I were female and she were male and everything was the same there is not one person in 100 that would advise me to stay in the marriage.


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## Chris Smith (Jun 8, 2015)

Sorry for the long posts. Here is what I have done. Many times since we have had kids, my wife has went on trips. She's went by herself to see her family. She's went to see her biological family. (She is adopted and about 7 years ago she found biological family.) She goes on scrap booking retreats. Things like that. During those times, I have ALWAYS kept the status quo for my kids. We always to go church. They are always on time for school. I cook for them. (Last month I took them out to eat for the first time EVER while their mother was gone.) They visit friends/have friends visit. Everything is normal.

Is this evidence that I am the primary parent? 

And will a judge consider the testimony of my 12 year old son?


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## Chris Smith (Jun 8, 2015)

2&out said:


> Yes you can. You should be able to get 50% without a lot of trouble with documentation assuming you stay in the same area and such. If she fights you on custody and you want more, you are going to have to be willing to fight and spend A LOT to convince the court you are the more able parent and/or she is unfit for 1/2 custody. Find and talk to a good lawyer - a couple - before you do anything. Pay for some counceltations to get a realistic picture. You probably need to push her to get a job before you file anything otherwise fair chance your going to have to support her "in her current lifestyle".
> 
> Last 2 cents for now. For more than 50% it will be an uphill battle. (Most states in US) Decide how far and hard you are willing to go and what you are willing to do. It can be done. I'm male and I have full physical and "shared" legal custody of my 2. But I will be honest and admit/say that I went on an all out take no prisoners legal assault - and almost $100K - and that was more than 10 years ago. My Ex hates my guts (her family doesn't - they know it was best for the kids and do see/have contact) It bankrupted me. It was worth every penny and pain.


Thank you for your experience. So money really does matter?


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## Chris Smith (Jun 8, 2015)

gettingout said:


> Get a good attorney. And I say this as someone whose STBX does not do 10% of what you do (why I am fighting him) but I have a female friends married or involved later with guys like you - so I know you exist and are not unicorns
> 
> (mine only wants custody to limits CS)


Something confuses me. Custody and CS seems to be automatic for women, but yet several women have stories of having to fight hard in court. That seems like a contradiction. Could you share more about this?


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## Dread Pirate Roberts (May 22, 2012)

Chris Smith said:


> Something confuses me. Custody and CS seems to be automatic for women, but yet several women have stories of having to fight hard in court. That seems like a contradiction. Could you share more about this?


In Nevada, CS is a straight formula - for 2 kids it's 25% of gross income. Now, if you have shared custody, then you figure that 25% from each side, then subtract the lower figure from the higher. The higher earner then pays that difference as support. However, if a parent has primary custody, then the non-custodial parent pays the entire 25% of their gross income to the custodial parent. The threshold is 60/40, which is 4 days/3 days. So, that's where the fight for custody comes in.

I know Texas has different rules - I was reading that link somebody posted here about divorce across the 50 states, and a friend of mine lives there and went through one.

DPR


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## tenac (Jun 3, 2015)

Chris Smith said:


> Something confuses me. Custody and CS seems to be automatic for women, but yet several women have stories of having to fight hard in court. That seems like a contradiction. Could you share more about this?


Every situation is different. If the husband has grounds to prove that he was heavily involved in the care of the children and/or he's got the money to fight a protracted legal battle then there's going to be a hard fight in the courthouse.

In your case, she was a stay at home "mom" and you worked, therefore the burden of proof is on you to show that you provided more direct care to the children than she did, while maintaining a full time job.

By the time it's going to matter, your son will be 13 or close to it, and yes his testimony will be strongly considered by the courts. If he truly hates his mother, and it can be shown it's not due to your influence, it will help your case considerably.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Chris Smith said:


> Sorry for the long posts. Here is what I have done. Many times since we have had kids, my wife has went on trips. She's went by herself to see her family. She's went to see her biological family. (She is adopted and about 7 years ago she found biological family.) She goes on scrap booking retreats. Things like that. During those times, I have ALWAYS kept the status quo for my kids. We always to go church. They are always on time for school. I cook for them. (Last month I took them out to eat for the first time EVER while their mother was gone.) They visit friends/have friends visit. Everything is normal.
> 
> Is this evidence that I am the primary parent?
> 
> And will a judge consider the testimony of my 12 year old son?



In Texas a judge can listen to children 12 years old and up. Whether you want to involve your children in court is up to you. It sounds like your son would be more than willing to do so.

Be sure that you are documenting all of this - daily. 

Keep a journal.

Best of luck.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

By the way,

Sec. 153.002. BEST INTEREST OF CHILD. The best interest of the child shall always be the primary consideration of the court in determining the issues of conservatorship and possession of and access to the child.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 20, Sec. 1, eff. April 20, 1995.


Sec. 153.003. NO DISCRIMINATION BASED ON SEX OR MARITAL STATUS. The court shall consider the qualifications of the parties without regard to their marital status or to the sex of the party or the child in determining:
(1) which party to appoint as sole managing conservator;
(2) whether to appoint a party as joint managing conservator; and
(3) the terms and conditions of conservatorship and possession of and access to the child.

Here's a link: FAMILY CODE CHAPTER 153. CONSERVATORSHIP, POSSESSION, AND ACCESS


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

tenac said:


> Every situation is different. If the husband has grounds to prove that he was heavily involved in the care of the children and/or he's got the money to fight a protracted legal battle then there's going to be a hard fight in the courthouse.
> 
> In your case, she was a stay at home "mom" and you worked, therefore the burden of proof is on you to show that you provided more direct care to the children than she did, while maintaining a full time job.
> 
> By the time it's going to matter, your son will be 13 or close to it, and yes his testimony will be strongly considered by the courts. If he truly hates his mother, and it can be shown it's not due to your influence, it will help your case considerably.


Sec. 153.009. INTERVIEW OF CHILD IN CHAMBERS. (a) In a nonjury trial or at a hearing, on the application of a party, the amicus attorney, or the attorney ad litem for the child, the court shall interview in chambers a child 12 years of age or older and may interview in chambers a child under 12 years of age to determine the child's wishes as to conservatorship or as to the person who shall have the exclusive right to determine the child's primary residence. The court may also interview a child in chambers on the court's own motion for a purpose specified by this subsection.


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## Chris Smith (Jun 8, 2015)

Thank you for the replies. I spoke with a lawyer yesterday. I'm not filing for a divorce, but I'm not scared anymore. The lawyer told me a likely situation would be 50/50 with limited child support and some spousal support unless I really wanted to fight. Then, I'd likely get the kids. The only thing she has against me is the "controlling" thing. But a woman who has her own bank accounts, credit cards, and can freely travel and be with friends and family is going to be considered a fool if she claims her husband is controlling.

But what was fascinating, but not surprising, was how she explained how much what judge we got would matter.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I got custody of mine but only because the ex wife didn't challenge it. She actually insisted on that arrangement. Kids were inconvenient for her and her new "thang".


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> I got custody of mine but only because the ex wife didn't challenge it. She actually insisted on that arrangement. Kids were inconvenient for her and her new "thang".


This is what happened for me. I have full custody, XW has visitation, which is inconvenient for her. So, she only sees them about one weekend a month.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Fathers win custody in about 10% of the cases. Typically the mother is in jail or a drug addict or has left the country.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I fought for a two years for my older children and I told my x that I would not stop until I got my kids. Six weeks later she gave up and signed over custody. My younger two kids my xW fought but she knew with no job and living out of her parents house there was little chance she was going to win. She signed off in under three weeks and she also signed off on the house and the car too. She practically walked away with nothing. My brother fought for his son and won as well. 

It can be done but I do agree it is difficult to do. 

Clay


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

My father had sole custody of me. 

He had to buy her off (car house cash)...while not a perfect scenario -it happened (circa 1975). 

I had a pretty great life...glad he did it. 

The legal system is slow, arduous, and expensive. Maybe find out what she wants most..what would be most irresistible to her. You never know she may go for it.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Of course she says you are controlling. You want her to stop hanging around with broken/damaged people. Im sorry, but if she doesn't become more engaged with her marriage and family, your marriage wont last and you may have to file for divorce. She is the cause of a lot of distractions in your family, and is headed for completely checking out. Sometimes you have to risk loosing the marriage to save it. Get your ducks in a row, check out her bank account and CC. Get hold of all the family finances. Investigate where all the money is going. Work on investigating anything that may be going on outside of the home, that might be influencing your wifes behavior. Toxic friends can be enormously damaging.


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