# No affection what so ever



## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

Hello, almost married 7 years. So once we had our youngest all afffection is gone. This was my third child and her first. I got fixed right away after he was born. Since then we didn’t have sex for four years straight. The. After that it was twice in one year and only cause she was drunk and was feeling it. Since then the streak has started again. My wife refuses any touching. Tells me not to touch her. I know she isn’t cheating on me. She says she is stressed or needs to lose more weight. She has lost 25 pounds recently and I have encouraged her every time she tells me how much. I try to talk to her about it and tell her I need affection no matter what it is and she tells me to stop it and leave her alone. How do I go about getting through to her that I need affection?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Unfortunately, there is no direct answer to this question. I would suggest marriage counseling.


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## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

I have and she says no. I have suggested everything. Even when kids are gone she says right away to don’t get any ideas.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Laser123 said:


> I have and she says no. I have suggested everything. Even when kids are gone she says right away to don’t get any ideas.


I think you have to come to the acceptance that you have to do something or this will be the course of your life for the rest of your life. Whatever her reason, you don't know and she does not care to change it. You can wait to be ready to leave over this. Or you can get ready to leave over this now. Or you can accept this forever. If you won't accept this forever, TELL HER. I don't know what is going on with you. But I will not live in a sexless marriage forever. I WILL divorce you over this eventually. I love you. I want to work on this together. I don't WANT to divorce you. But I will not accept just no, nothing, not my problem from you, MY WIFE. If she won't get to the table, you are hosed.


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## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

That’s what I was figuring. If I say it will lead to divorce she just says well then that’s the way it is. She thinks it’s her way and no other way. I truely don’t want a divorce and I do love her a lot so I guess I just have to live with it until I decide I have had enough.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I am going to just make a blanket broad diagnosis: you are a nice guy and you are codependent.

Get and read: Codependant no more and No more Mr Nice guy


Unless you are willing to walk away from the marriage (not the kids), it will never change. Even then, it will most likely only change because you walked away and found a new partner.


Ultimately, people treat you how you show them to treat you. If there are no consequences, why should she change?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Laser123 said:


> That’s what I was figuring. *If I say it will lead to divorce she just says well then that’s the way it is*. She thinks it’s her way and no other way. I truely don’t want a divorce and I do love her a lot so I guess I just have to live with it until I decide I have had enough.


And that is ok with you? She pretty much said I don't give a rat's behind about you. She is not just saying yah well not that interested in affection. She is saying f you to you and anything to do with you that does not serve ME. You love someone who does not seem to love you back. Are you ok with that?

I hope you don't choose to waste your life. Do you have kids? (Sorry. You answered this.) How long married? How many kids and how old?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

One thing. If you do actually come to a place where you are willing to walk away, it MAY be the wake up call that ... well... wakes her up. The thing is, you don't get to know this in advance.


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## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

Married almost 7 years. One kid with her. 6. I have two others that she has been the mom to since they were young. Now they are 15,19. The 19 year old is out of the house. We are both 41. I have tried different tactics and nothing. Some have made her mad like when friends have said the have sex all the time I say well my wife’s a nun, I figured what do I have to lose. Yes I still love her and we have built a great foundation and got our lives on a great path except this. Everything is about the kids and nothing else.


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## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

Her other excuse is just give it time. Which I do


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Laser123 said:


> Her other excuse is just give it time. Which I do


Well what she is not sharing is that giving it time will do exactly nothing to improve or change matters. It will only serve to make that the defacto norm. If you do nothing, nothing will change.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

The fact that this happened immediately after your child was born tells me it is related to the pregnancy/birth. There are a few different possibilities. Hormonal changes can be a factor. Birth trauma is another. Was it a difficult birth? There is something called birth rape and that can cause PTSD symptoms in some women. There are times when during an emergency, low fetal heart rate, Mom is bleeding too heavily, etc that Mom ends up with many medical providers "at her" all at once and that can be terrifying and create a feeling of violation for the Mom. She is exposed, doctors are examining her in a painful and for some women humiliating way. 

As a labor and delivery nurse I object to the term "rape" to describe this situation but I don't doubt the validity of the patient's feelings. I know that at my hospital we work hard to avoid anybody feeling that we have violated them, even in the name of saving theirs or their baby's life. I am aware not all practitioners are sensitive to it though.

Other factors can be a fear of getting pregnant again or even that the woman "blames" the man for getting her pregnant and causing her to deal with the pain of childbirth. Or that she has residual pain from the birth. I had a lot of trouble having sex after my first was born. I did not heal properly and needed surgery to fix it or I could wait until my next birth and have it repaired then. Neither option was very good and PIV sex was not great for me until the issue was resolved. If she's very reserved or not comfortable with her body or talking about sex she might not want to share this with you.

Maybe it's none of these things but in any case, I think your wife definitely needs some type of counseling or you need marriage counseling. If she won't agree to go you need to decide if you can continue in this marriage the way that it is. If not, be honest with her. Tell her the marriage is failing because of your needs not being met. You'll give her a certain amount of time, define that amount, but then you will be moving on as much as it pains you to do so.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

NobodySpecial said:


> Well what she is not sharing is that giving it time will do exactly nothing to improve or change matters. It will only serve to make that the defacto norm. If you do nothing, nothing will change.


Agreed, 5 years is more than enough time. Your sex life is stalled out and will remain so until something is done about it.


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## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

Pregnancy went fine no problems. I am fixed now and so no more kids. Just wasn’t sure of anything else I could say or do.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I might be a little OCD, but I try to fill in the missing data in these posts. Your youngest child is 5 or older. Your other 2 children are older. Can you give me the ages, and how often your older children live with you? Your wife is still overweight, how much? What is your typical sleeping arrangement?

Sexless for 5 years, and the no touching rule is a very unusual situation.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Laser123 said:


> Married almost 7 years. One kid with her. 6. I have two others that she has been the mom to since they were young. Now they are 15,19. The 19 year old is out of the house. We are both 41. I have tried different tactics and nothing. Some have made her mad like when friends have said the have sex all the time I say well my wife’s a nun, I figured what do I have to lose. Yes I still love her and we have built a great foundation and got our lives on a great path except this. Everything is about the kids and nothing else.


Well, welcome to the rest of your life. You are a nice guy doormat, and she has total control here. Is that what you want, how you want to live? She doesnt want you, and she doesnt give a damn how that makes you feel. Just think about that... SHE DOESNT WANT YOU. 

Does that sound like a woman who loves you or respects you? Dont you think you DESERVE a woman who loves you and respects you? She told you before that she was ok with divorce. I am not sure why in the hell you are not taking her up on that instead of sitting there letting her punch you repeatedly in the nads. 

Let her know you want to have an open marriage so that you can get your needs met elsewhere, see what kind of response THAT gets. 

Read the book recommended here, No More Mr Nice Guy. Read it a few times.


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## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

Mr. nail 6,15,19. The 19 year old is out of the house. Wife is barely overweight she isnt huge or anything.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Outsource her wifely duties if you know what I mean...


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Laser123 said:


> Pregnancy went fine no problems. I am fixed now and so no more kids. Just wasn’t sure of anything else I could say or do.


Then I think it's time to have that sit down. Don't beg for affection/sex. Tell her your needs aren't being met in the marriage and the consequence of that will most likely be a total breakdown of the marriage. Of course don't do this unless you are prepared to follow through. Otherwise she'll know it's crap and won't even pay attention to you the next time you say it. 

So really think long and hard. Do you want to continue your marriage if it remains affection and sex free? If not, have the conversation. If you don't see yourself divorcing no matter what, try to develop a new frame of mind. I'd guess over time that you will begin to feel worse and worse in your marriage though as you disconnect from your wife more and more. 

I gave this same advice to a friend. He spoke to his wife honestly and things improved greatly. She still doesn't initiate and he knows that on some level she'd still be fine without sex forever. But what did improve was the affection she gave him. She had been withdrawing that because she was thinking every touch or kiss or hug would turn into a demand for sex. So he makes sure they have plenty of non sexual affection where she doesn't feel pressured all the time. Things are still not where he'd like them to be but they came up with a compromise and it mostly works for them. Enough that he wants to stay in the marriage. Will it go this way for you? I make no promises. Sorry.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Well, welcome to the rest of your life. You are a nice guy doormat, and she has total control here. Is that what you want, how you want to live? She doesnt want you, and she doesnt give a damn how that makes you feel. Just think about that... SHE DOESNT WANT YOU.


I said pretty much the same thing. But I don't think we know that. But whatever is motivating her, her words and actions sure SOUND like that. If this is not the case, she needs a proverbial dope slap to the head to wake up and realize she has something to lose.


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## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

Sleeping arrangement is king size bed with dog in it and the 6 year old comes in it in middle of the night and she refuses to stop allowing it. Sleep facing away from each other I have a cpap so I sleep on one side mostly.


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## RubyRing (Jun 13, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> The fact that this happened immediately after your child was born tells me it is related to the pregnancy/birth. There are a few different possibilities. Hormonal changes can be a factor. Birth trauma is another. Was it a difficult birth? There is something called birth rape and that can cause PTSD symptoms in some women. There are times when during an emergency, low fetal heart rate, Mom is bleeding too heavily, etc that Mom ends up with many medical providers "at her" all at once and that can be terrifying and create a feeling of violation for the Mom. She is exposed, doctors are examining her in a painful and for some women humiliating way.
> 
> As a labor and delivery nurse I object to the term "rape" to describe this situation but I don't doubt the validity of the patient's feelings. I know that at my hospital we work hard to avoid anybody feeling that we have violated them, even in the name of saving theirs or their baby's life. I am aware not all practitioners are sensitive to it though.
> 
> ...


Wow, RAPED is EXACTLY how I felt after the birth of my only child. I really feel that my C-Section was a hospital manuevered thing because they just wanted to get it over with, and all the poking and prodding before during and after, felt like a lot of unnecessary bull****. But I was blessed with a perfect baby boy, so all of it was well worth it. 

However, and this is very strange, I did not lose my libido over it In fact, all I wanted to do was make love, during the recovery period when intercourse was NOT allowed. Must have been a strange hormonal surge, because now, looking back, I can't imagine how I was "so in the mood" with a C-Section scar, sore lady parts from the attempted vaginal birth, and a new born to take care of, but I felt deprived at the "no sex" rule immediately after birth. 

To the OP. Sorry you are going through this. If you have told your wife how you feel, and she REFUSES to problem solve with you, you are perfectly within your rights to divorce her. Or perhaps you can ask her if she will allow you to have an "open marriage" in exchange for you not "getting any ideas" with her in the future. If her problems are pschychlogical or hormonal in nature, she should seek an appropriate solution. If she refuses, you should seek an open marriage or a divorce.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Outsource her wifely duties if you know what I mean...


Never good advice, ever. Unless she states that what she wants him to do...in which case it's not really a good marriage anymore so why bother? Just divorce and find someone who gives you the whole package, love, affection, sex, etc. Don't get a little of it here and a little of it there.


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## Laser123 (Apr 24, 2019)

Sorry need to add she also suffers from anxiety and depression. So another thing she says when I bring it up is thanks I was in a good mood until you started this again


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

No touching?
Would she hold paperwork if you gave it to her?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Laser123 said:


> Sorry need to add she also suffers from anxiety and depression. So another thing she says when I bring it up is thanks I was in a good mood until you started this again


She has trained you well.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Laser123 said:


> Sorry need to add she also suffers from anxiety and depression. So another thing she says when I bring it up is thanks I was in a good mood until you started this again


That's just her way of getting you to shut up now and to hopefully never bring it up again. Did she have postpartum depression? Is she on antidepressants? Some are known to kill libido. If so, she should bring it up with her doctor. A medication switch might help. If she won't go to the doctor then it's back to making it clear her attitude is seriously damaging your marriage. Make it clear it's not about just getting laid. You can get that anywhere. It's about affection and closeness, intimacy, and expressing the love you're supposed to share.


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## RubyRing (Jun 13, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> Never good advice, ever. Unless she states that what she wants him to do...in which case it's not really a good marriage anymore so why bother? Just divorce and find someone who gives you the whole package, love, affection, sex, etc. Don't get a little of it here and a little of it there.


Normally, I don't condone adultery, and would not recommend "outsourcing" UNLESS the wife was given a choice of "open marriage" or divorce. Perhaps the request for "open marriage" would be a wake up call. From the limited info I have from the OP, the wife says she would be OK with divorce, so I would recommend that route.

Again, based on my limited info, I think the wife is trying to drive him to divorce her. Really, how can anyone expect a man to remain in a sexless marriage (unless they are both in their 90's and neither one desires sex any more ?) It seems to me that she married him to be a sperm donor. Now that she got his sperm, he can swim upstream and die as far as she is concerned. 

I can understand painful intercourse, negative body image, menopause, child birth, hormonal changes making intercourse painful, unwanted, but to withdraw ALL forms of affection ? Not excusable. Not seeking a solution to this ? Unexcusable. 

I think this wife if being disrespectful to her husband and doesn't deserve to be married. (Again, based on limited information )


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Outsource her wifely duties if you know what I mean...


WRONG

I assume you are someone with a modicum of character. Cheating won't solve anything. And this is an interesting suggestion given the poster's intolerance for cheating women....

First, it is unacceptable for her to unilaterally decide your sex life is over. I want to make that clear.

However, the whole no touching no sex thing starting right after the child was born makes me wonder.....is it possible that she was assaulted or abused as a child?

Sometimes survivors of abuse are triggered by major life events - like having a child of their own and childbirth.

Understand, this doesn't excuse her from seeking help. If you have a problem, you seek help. If you are a married person with sex issues, you seek help for those issues.

I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Laser123 said:


> Sorry need to add she also suffers from anxiety and depression. So another thing she says when I bring it up is thanks I was in a good mood until you started this again


Is she being treated? So not only is she controlling you, she is blaming you for her illness. It is sad and a total bummer. But it happens. Depression and anxiety are real. But they are Not Your Fault even if she wants to lay it on you.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Laser123 said:


> If I say it will lead to divorce she just says well then that’s the way it is.


I missed this comment earlier. I'd imagine she says this because after 5 years of you putting up with it she knows you won't actually do that. 5 years is a long time. Do you really want to turn it into another 45 years of no sex or affection at all in your life? I'm betting you don't. So why waste anymore time. I wasted 13 years and boy do I wish I was heading back into the dating world in my 40's instead of my 50's. The time to act is now.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Laser123 said:


> Sorry need to add she also suffers from anxiety and depression. So another thing she says when I bring it up is thanks I was in a good mood until you started this again


That's a consequence of High trait Neuroticism and Agreeableness.
Personality traits that the majority of women share. 
It can be treated and managed. 
It's a weak excuse for being a bad wife.

If you handed her a couple of pieces of paper clipped together, would she hold them?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Outsource her wifely duties if you know what I mean...
> ...


I think given her effortlessness in the area that they can discuss some sort of arrangement. Either she ups her effort or he finds a replacement. Or they can divorce. Maybe they cohabitate well together so opening the marriage might be an option.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

RubyRing said:


> Normally, I don't condone adultery, and would not recommend "outsourcing" UNLESS the wife was given a choice of "open marriage" or divorce. *Perhaps the request for "open marriage" would be a wake up call.* From the limited info I have from the OP, the wife says she would be OK with divorce, so I would recommend that route.
> 
> Again, based on my limited info, I think the wife is trying to drive him to divorce her. Really, how can anyone expect a man to remain in a sexless marriage (unless they are both in their 90's and neither one desires sex any more ?) It seems to me that she married him to be a sperm donor. Now that she got his sperm, he can swim upstream and die as far as she is concerned.
> 
> ...


I requested that of my former husband a few weeks after he cut off sex, and was met with some disdain. He wasn’t willing to meet my needs and he wasn’t willing for someone else to meet them either.

Not only is the wife being extremely disrespectful of her husband and marriage, but withholding affection and sex is a form of abuse.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Laser123 said:


> That’s what I was figuring. If I say it will lead to divorce she just says well then that’s the way it is. She thinks it’s her way and no other way. I truely don’t want a divorce and I do love her a lot so I guess I just have to live with it until I decide I have had enough.


Your are a rough neck with a paycheck. Marriage is to be more then that. As advised, tell your W you did not sign up for a sexless marriage. If she is unwilling to work on what is causing this sexless marriage there is nothing to save.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe she was after a biological child and now that she has one -- and there won't be another -- she's done with sex.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Openminded said:


> Maybe she was after a biological child and now that she has one -- and there won't be another -- she's done with sex.


If so, this is despicably selfish


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Maybe she was after a biological child and now that she has one -- and there won't be another -- she's done with sex.


Unless he can get her to the table, the why is pretty unimportant.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I am with the group that suggests you tell her that your needs are just as important as hers in the marriage and that, in your opinion, the marriage is broken. 

Tell her that you didn't sign up for a sexless marriage and that you are not interested in continuing status quo. She has 3 choices, (1) goes to counseling with you to get the physical part of your marriage back on track, (2) the marriage will be "opened" so that you can outsource your physical intimacy needs elsewhere or (3) you divorce. 

Give her an hour to think about it. 

Then follow through.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Tron said:


> I am with the group that suggests you tell her that your needs are just as important as hers in the marriage and that, in your opinion, the marriage is broken.
> 
> Tell her that you didn't sign up for a sexless marriage and that you are not interested in continuing status quo. She has 3 choices, (1) goes to counseling with you to get the physical part of your marriage back on track, (2) the marriage will be "opened" so that you can outsource your physical intimacy needs elsewhere or (3) you divorce.
> 
> ...


Is she depressed, perhaps?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Tron said:


> I am with the group that suggests you tell her that your needs are just as important as hers in the marriage and that, in your opinion, the marriage is broken.
> 
> Tell her that you didn't sign up for a sexless marriage and that you are not interested in continuing status quo. She has 3 choices, (1) goes to counseling with you to get the physical part of your marriage back on track, (2) the marriage will be "opened" so that you can outsource your physical intimacy needs elsewhere or (3) you divorce.
> 
> ...


"Opening" the marriage is not a great plan, in my opinion. Outsourcing sex in that way is not that easy. And can lead to ... unintended consequences.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> "Opening" the marriage is not a great plan, in my opinion. Outsourcing sex in that way is not that easy. And can lead to ... unintended consequences.


I agree with you. In this case not only are they not having sex, but the W has no desire to even touch him. 

If the M opens, JMO, but inevitably the physical intimacy with a new partner will beget emotional intimacy. And once the OP has both going on with his new partner, the marriage with the W will soon fail. 

If my W determined that she would prefer to open the marriage rather than work on it at all, I think that I would simply feel unloved and used. What would I really have in common with this woman? Besides the child? No real point in trying to stick it out for the child. What kind of loveless marriage are they exhibiting for their child anyway?

It would be time to eject and D anyway.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Insufficient information...

Does she work outside the house?

If yes, even earning with you?

Is your state a man friendly divorce state?

What cultures?

How's her family? Loving parents or BSC hating each other? Marriage role models?

Is she touchy feely with the kids?

Is she or you overly religious? Family?

Does she like to dress - not really provocative but you know, a bit more skin or she's blue ankle length skirt and bonnet material?

How's her relationship with the 19 year old? I'm sure he dated while home, what was her view?

I'm kinda worried about the mental health picture because there aren't many illnesses that involve outright touch aversion. And I assume she has that. 

If so, and given the other symptoms, the choices for a root cause aren't all that great. Look up touch aversion.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Laser123 said:


> Sleeping arrangement is king size bed with dog in it and the 6 year old comes in it in middle of the night and she refuses to stop allowing it. Sleep facing away from each other I have a cpap so I sleep on one side mostly.


Buy this:








Move into a room with a locking door. No kids, No dogs. Then get in shape. When you are getting some decent sleep you will be able to deal with your life. 



NobodySpecial said:


> Unless he can get her to the table, the why is pretty unimportant.


Even the sex is unimportant until she comes to the table. And When she comes You need to be ready to make a deal. You need to be in as physically attractive as she is. You need to be confident. You need to be interesting. Work on you. that is what you can change.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are staying because you want to. It's pretty obvious she could care less. You don't matter.

So as long as you're ok with it nothing changes.

Talking, reading books, buying flowers/cards, doing all the housework, etc. isn't going go get you a thing.

The only one keeping you in this is you


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

john117 said:


> Insufficient information...
> 
> Does she work outside the house?
> 
> ...


^^^This!

I'll also add....

OP you mentioned using a cpap to sleep. Are you obese now? If so, were you like this from the time you two started dating and/or married? Is your wife obese? If so, was she like this from the time you two started dating and/or married?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Laser123 said:


> Hello, almost married 7 years. So once we had our youngest all afffection is gone. This was my third child and her first. I got fixed right away after he was born. Since then we didn’t have sex for four years straight. The. After that it was twice in one year and only cause she was drunk and was feeling it. Since then the streak has started again. My wife refuses any touching.


In the last more than 5 years your wife has had sex with you 2 times. During that time "all affection is gone", and she "refuses any touching". She in effect divorced you more than 5 years ago, but forgot to tell you about it because she wanted to keep you as a bill paying roommate.

I say make it official. 7 years is an important deadline to file when it comes to determining alimony, so file now. BTW, nothing with your wife has to really change when you do this. If you file for an in-house separation and become officially a roommate after the divorce, by sleeping in another room or on a roll away bed, you can stop the clock for alimony while sticking around for your child. The only thing you might miss out on is sex 2 times every 5 years or so, but if you start dating, I guarantee you that you will get it more often than that. This is assuming that you do not find a real wife and move on. When you leave this insanity, you will look back at your first post and not believe that you actually wrote those words. 

BTW, not that it really matters in the end, but do not rule out that she is getting her sex needs met elsewhere. It could be another guy, or another woman (where she married you because she wanted a father for her child).


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Tron said:


> If the M opens, JMO, but inevitably the physical intimacy with a new partner will beget emotional intimacy. And once the OP has both going on with his new partner, the marriage with the W will soon fail.


 Or her sex drive amazingly comes back when the marriage is opened, only it's not for the OP. Her options are FAR better than his in an open relationship. I agree a BAD idea altogether.
@Laser123
A CPAP is a mood crusher for sure. They don't tell you that stuff when you get it (hindsight is 20/20), or that once you start using it you can't get decent sleep without it.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

The clue that you are the husband of a stepmom tells me there could be much more to this situation than the usual "your wife doesn't care about you" and the "screw me or I'll leave" types of scenarios. What I've found is that guys are often clueless to their wife's feelings, and husbands to a stepmom are usually totally clueless of their own actions of inconsideration. You're thinking it began after she gave birth, but she would probably say something different. That's just when you noticed you weren't getting the sex you wanted or the affection you wanted. But, there could be almost any number of reasons a woman doesn't want her husband to touch her and sometimes, those reasons are associated with his actions or his inaction. A man can do things or say things that his wife finds repulsive, and so she is repulsed by him and cringes at even the thought of him touching her, much less actually having to endure his touch. Or, a man can refrain from doing or saying the things she needs him to do or say, so she also finds that repulsive, which in turn makes her repulsed by him.

In many stepfamily situations, one or two or all those occur every single day, and the man who is married to the stepmom of his children doesn't realize what he does to her for the sake of his kids. I won't go into detail or try to state particular scenarios of what goes on in your home because you will only deny them. How great a husband and father you might think you are is totally irrelevant. Only your wife's opinions and her feelings matter in this type of situation because there is a reason she doesn't want you touching her. My wager is that you are the reason even though you don't think you are. That she doesn't want you touching her and she doesn't even care if you leave is more telling than you have imagined. It sounds like she has an awful lot of resentment built up. So, if you want to get to the bottom of this in hopes of finding solutions, you have to direct your concerns to her, her feelings, and her opinions, instead of dwelling on the fact that she won't give you sex or any affection at all. This isn't about you, your feelings, or your opinions. It's about her. It's possible, if not probable, you have made her very unhappy as hard as that might be for you to fathom. I don't necessarily think you did it intentionally. I do think you did it nevertheless. I'm suggesting your wife does not receive what she needs from you. So, instead of threatening her with abandonment, it may be more advantageous to consider her in terms of what she needs from you, as opposed to what you are not getting from her.

Counseling is often suggested, but that won't work in your situation. That you find a counselor who is familiar with stepfamily dynamics is a good suggestion for your situation, but they are usually hard to find locally. The biggest problem with that is any counselor or counseling service will claim to be familiar with stepfamily dynamics only because they have counseled couples who are in stepfamilies. But that doesn't make them experts on the subject. They just counsel couples of stepfamilies in the same manner they counsel other couples, which doesn't work because the differences are like night and day being that there are infinitely more issues among couples in stepfamilies, so the same principles and methods don't apply.

What I suggest first is that you read the book called "Stepmonster: Why Stepmoms Think, Feel, and Act The Way We Do" by Dr. Wednesday Martin. Please purchase the book or ebook to read in its entirety. There is a compilation of excerpts on the internet that leaves out too much for you to get a full understanding, so please get the full version, and also read her introduction.

This book will give you insight into:

1. Your wife's experience from her point of view, how she feels, and why she feels that way.
2. How you, yourself, contribute to the above.
3. How your children contribute to the above.
4. Experts who have studied stepfamilies and worked extensively with couples in stepfamilies.

I then suggest you contact some of those experts to find out if one of them will speak with and work with you and your wife over the phone (since they probably are not located near you). If they will, then ask if they will speak with your wife even though she is against counseling and doesn't want to take part. Maybe they can convince her to participate. It's worth the try and just might work once she understands their effort is to help her. Stepmoms often feel alone and don't think anyone will understand what they are going through. If the fear of judgment and persecution are removed, she might feel it safe to express herself.

If no one is willing to work with you guys over the phone, then ask if they can give you a referral to someone local.

There are many horror stories in the book, and I'm not saying they all apply to you or your situation or the situation your wife finds herself in. But I am saying you will see yourself in the book and even if you don't recognize it, the insight into your wife's psyche will prove invaluable so long as you don't live in denial regarding yourself and your children.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Laser123 said:


> Sorry need to add she also suffers from anxiety and depression. So another thing she says when I bring it up is thanks I was in a good mood until you started this again


If THIS is the case, call her on it and make her go to a Dr for it. She's just saying that to fend you off UNLESS she is under a Dr's care for it. If she IS, then perhaps the drugs she is taking are killing her libido.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Laser123 said:


> Sorry need to add she also suffers from anxiety and depression. So another thing she says when I bring it up is thanks I was in a good mood until you started this again


I am sorry that you're both going through this.

Does she accept touch from others... such as receiving a hug from a friend, receiving a professional massage?

If you're not already, could you experience being physical as an intended starting point, in the way of walking / exercising together, going for a massage together? 

Are there other ways that she demonstrates affection towards you that is unrelated to touch? 

With her depression and anxiety, how does this manifest itself and is she seeking treatment for this?

Also (yes, more questions) what might occur in her day/moment that inspires a 'good' mood? And when you bring up physical affection - how is this being understood by her?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Tron said:


> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> > "Opening" the marriage is not a great plan, in my opinion. Outsourcing sex in that way is not that easy. And can lead to ... unintended consequences.
> ...


Sounds from what he shared that she has no intention to work on it. Apparently he has something that is making him unable to leave. Might as well buy some rubbers and get a tinder account.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Tasorundo said:


> I am going to just make a blanket broad diagnosis: you are a nice guy and you are codependent.
> 
> Get and read: Codependant no more and No more Mr Nice guy
> 
> ...


Repeated for *TRUTH*.

OP, re-read the above post about 100 times. 

Then read it 100 times more.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Laser123 said:


> Pregnancy went fine no problems. I am fixed now and so no more kids. Just wasn’t sure of anything else I could say or do.


 I get the distinct impression she was only having sex to procreate.

Now that she's had the kid she wanted to have, she's closed the sex store.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Sorry, but if he is doing things that "repulse" her, she needs to step up and talk to him about it. Refusing to be touched is passive aggressive adolescent behavior. If she isn't going to TELL him what is bothering her, she doesn't get a pass. In fact, she doesn't really get a pass either way. Intimacy is part of marriage. You DON'T get to unilaterally decide to take it away....NO, you don't.



StarFires said:


> The clue that you are the husband of a stepmom tells me there could be much more to this situation than the usual "your wife doesn't care about you" and the "screw me or I'll leave" types of scenarios. What I've found is that guys are often clueless to their wife's feelings, and husbands to a stepmom are usually totally clueless of their own actions of inconsideration. You're thinking it began after she gave birth, but she would probably say something different. That's just when you noticed you weren't getting the sex you wanted or the affection you wanted. But, there could be almost any number of reasons a woman doesn't want her husband to touch her and sometimes, those reasons are associated with his actions or his inaction. A man can do things or say things that his wife finds repulsive, and so she is repulsed by him and cringes at even the thought of him touching her, much less actually having to endure his touch. Or, a man can refrain from doing or saying the things she needs him to do or say, so she also finds that repulsive, which in turn makes her repulsed by him.
> 
> In many stepfamily situations, one or two or all those occur every single day, and the man who is married to the stepmom of his children doesn't realize what he does to her for the sake of his kids. I won't go into detail or try to state particular scenarios of what goes on in your home because you will only deny them. How great a husband and father you might think you are is totally irrelevant. Only your wife's opinions and her feelings matter in this type of situation because there is a reason she doesn't want you touching her. My wager is that you are the reason even though you don't think you are. That she doesn't want you touching her and she doesn't even care if you leave is more telling than you have imagined. It sounds like she has an awful lot of resentment built up. So, if you want to get to the bottom of this in hopes of finding solutions, you have to direct your concerns to her, her feelings, and her opinions, instead of dwelling on the fact that she won't give you sex or any affection at all. This isn't about you, your feelings, or your opinions. It's about her. It's possible, if not probable, you have made her very unhappy as hard as that might be for you to fathom. I don't necessarily think you did it intentionally. I do think you did it nevertheless. I'm suggesting your wife does not receive what she needs from you. So, instead of threatening her with abandonment, it may be more advantageous to consider her in terms of what she needs from you, as opposed to what you are not getting from her.
> 
> ...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Laser123 said:


> Sorry need to add she also suffers from anxiety and depression. So another thing she says when I bring it up is thanks I was in a good mood until you started this again


OP, I'm curious as to why you answer ONLY those posts that *DON'T* point out that you're co-dependent and needy, and that you need to read the _*No More Mr. Nice Guy*_ book.

I'm assuming that maybe you don't realize how you appear to others, based on your posts. When someone says he's desperate for "any affection he can get" and that he basically hasn't had sex in 5 years because his wife *refuses* to touch him and has made it painfully clear to him she has *no interest* in any form of intimacy with him, and he STICKS AROUND for it *year after year after year*, what does that say about him? Sadly, it tells me this is a man with no self respect at all, and a man whose too weak to stand up for himself and demand better in life.

MANY people here have asked why you stay year after year after year and you don't answer that question, either. But you* do* try to make excuses for your wife about her having 'depression' and 'anxiety' - which is also an excuse for YOU for why you put up with her year after year. What a racket that is, claiming to be depressed. I think I'll tell my husband I suffer from 'depression' and 'anxiety' like so many other adults out there love to claim nowadays, and then I can get out of cooking and cleaning and anything else I don't feel like doing. What a crock of **** *that *is.

I'll bet her 'depression and anxiety" don't seem to negatively affect all the attention and effort she makes on behalf of the kids every second of the day though, does it? Why, it's a Christmas miracle!

You need to read that book and you need to find your self respect, OP. Your wife can't respect you if *YOU* don't respect you.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I get the distinct impression she was only having sex to procreate.
> 
> Now that she's had the kid she wanted to have, she's closed the sex store.


This is the case, probably. If she is repulsed by him, she should tell him and divorce him. 

I don't see how this can be fixed. She refuses to go to counselling with him. His needs involve sticking a piece of meat in his wife's vagina and this is not quite like rubbing her back... it's a tad more intrusive. Anyway, who wants pity sex? Because this is what he will be getting even if she agrees to it. Five years is a long time. I'm amazed how some men can put up with that, especially if not mutual.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

This could have all been avoided had he never married. Women dry up like the Sahara after you say 'I do'.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> The fact that this happened immediately after your child was born tells me it is related to the pregnancy/birth. There are a few different possibilities. Hormonal changes can be a factor. Birth trauma is another. Was it a difficult birth? There is something called birth rape and that can cause PTSD symptoms in some women. There are times when during an emergency, low fetal heart rate, Mom is bleeding too heavily, etc that Mom ends up with many medical providers "at her" all at once and that can be terrifying and create a feeling of violation for the Mom. She is exposed, doctors are examining her in a painful and for some women humiliating way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I’ve never heard of birth rape before.
Interesting 
I think that would more apply to shortly after a delivery though? Not years after?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

4 years of no sex? WTF. Why would you let it go that long? Just because you haven't had sex in 4 years doesn't mean she hasn't. We've had countless men start threads about lack of sex and having a cold and indifferent wife, who insist that they "know" she's not cheating, for them to find out, after a nudge from TAMers that they was indeed adultery being committed. 

You mention that she's lost 25 lbs recently, which you encouraged. You also mentioned that you sleep with a cpap machine, which I guess is for sleep apnea. Almost everyone I've heard who uses those machines is very overweight. If you're obese, then you need to get to work on that. It's within your power to get into healthy shape. I'm not talking 6 pack are anything extreme just getting down to a healthy weight, can work wonders for not only your health and confidence but may entice your wife back into the bed.

I recommend you read the Married Man Sex Life primer. It's a guide on helping you become a better man, husband, and father to re-attract your wife.

I want to add, are you 100% the kid is yours?


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Based on your wife’s response to your telling her this will lead to divorce she either doesn’t take you seriously at all and believes you will not leave or she truly doesn’t care if you do. You need to show her you mean it.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

citygirl4344 said:


> I’ve never heard of birth rape before.
> Interesting
> I think that would more apply to shortly after a delivery though? Not years after?
> 
> ...


Women can get PTSD from it and it can affect them for years, just like a "real" rape. That sense of violation is not something that goes away easily. Many need counseling for it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

5 years of sexual neglect combined with her cold indifference is a lot of abuse to endure. Since she's repeatedly shot down your request to go to any counseling, it's safe to say she's not going to change. 

I would wager she is having a LTR affair or had one at some point and has completely detached from you. Even if not, 5 years of emotional abuse is enough.

Just fashion an exit plan. 1st get your finances in order, because after a D, your income will be stunted for a while. Next get your self primed for life after divorce. To do this, start a modified 180 to start detaching emotionally from her. That should be pretty easy since it sounds like she's a cold witch. Start taking care of your appearance. Go get some new threads, nice hair cut and make sure your facial hair is not all scraggly. Up your hygiene and most importantly, get your but into the gym and work out like a demon. 

Overall, just make sure your appearance is on point. Even if your overweight now, you should still make a point of looking your best. Doing these things will mentally and emotionally prepare you for divorce.

Also please don't listen to anyone spouting feminist dogma about you supposedly abusing your wife by making her a step mom or that by making her a mother she was raped. Your wife knew what she was getting when she hooked up with you.


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## RubyRing (Jun 13, 2016)

StarFires said:


> The clue that you are the husband of a stepmom tells me there could be much more to this situation than the usual "your wife doesn't care about you" and the "screw me or I'll leave" types of scenarios. What I've found is that guys are often clueless to their wife's feelings, and husbands to a stepmom are usually totally clueless of their own actions of inconsideration. You're thinking it began after she gave birth, but she would probably say something different. That's just when you noticed you weren't getting the sex you wanted or the affection you wanted. But, there could be almost any number of reasons a woman doesn't want her husband to touch her and sometimes, those reasons are associated with his actions or his inaction. A man can do things or say things that his wife finds repulsive, and so she is repulsed by him and cringes at even the thought of him touching her, much less actually having to endure his touch. Or, a man can refrain from doing or saying the things she needs him to do or say, so she also finds that repulsive, which in turn makes her repulsed by him.
> 
> In many stepfamily situations, one or two or all those occur every single day, and the man who is married to the stepmom of his children doesn't realize what he does to her for the sake of his kids. I won't go into detail or try to state particular scenarios of what goes on in your home because you will only deny them. How great a husband and father you might think you are is totally irrelevant. Only your wife's opinions and her feelings matter in this type of situation because there is a reason she doesn't want you touching her. My wager is that you are the reason even though you don't think you are. That she doesn't want you touching her and she doesn't even care if you leave is more telling than you have imagined. It sounds like she has an awful lot of resentment built up. So, if you want to get to the bottom of this in hopes of finding solutions, you have to direct your concerns to her, her feelings, and her opinions, instead of dwelling on the fact that she won't give you sex or any affection at all. This isn't about you, your feelings, or your opinions. It's about her. It's possible, if not probable, you have made her very unhappy as hard as that might be for you to fathom. I don't necessarily think you did it intentionally. I do think you did it nevertheless. I'm suggesting your wife does not receive what she needs from you. So, instead of threatening her with abandonment, it may be more advantageous to consider her in terms of what she needs from you, as opposed to what you are not getting from her.
> 
> ...


I know all we ever get on these boards is one side of the story, but still, I think your response is very insensitive. You are telling this man that it MUST be his fault. Whatever slights "step mom" feels, she needs to own, because in five years she hasn't told him and she REFUSES to go into counseling where she could safely bring her concerns to him.

Your answer is as insensitive as someone responding to a betrayed wife that the affair her husband is having MUST be her fault, because she must NOT be meeting her husbands sexual needs, because that is the only reason men cheat ever.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

At this point, future you can look back and be able to say you gave the situation more than enough time, and trying to communicate to W how important this lack of affection issue is to the marriage. 

Not just to you, but the marriage. And you're realizing what would help the union, not any sort of just you or a "selfish" you. 

Holy smokes, it sounds you've accommodated W at every turn, and she's always said "so what, tough sh#$!!" to YOUR opinions. 

It's time to plan your happier future. 

Whether you find an apartment or house for you, or file and legally tell HER to move out, time to remember you deserve happiness too.

Full, complete happiness that can contain someone in your life that loves, respects, appreciates, and affectionately cares for you. 

She doesn't. She will never change, based on info in your posts. Ever.

Change something before you crack, and everything in your life is contaminated. 

Before you snap, and things worsen.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I would say, 

“I’m 41. I need and want to have sex. I’m going to start doing it regularly this next week. Who do you recommend I do that with?”


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

jsmart said:


> Also please don't listen to anyone spouting feminist dogma about you supposedly abusing your wife by making her a step mom or that by making her a mother she was raped. Your wife knew what she was getting when she hooked up with you.


I take serious offense to that. I in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM was trying to imply that HE was responsible if she was having difficulties after the birth of their child. I was giving a possible explanation as to why she might not want sex immediately after the birth of a child as I thought she may be in need of some counseling. I didn't make it up and it's not a feminist thing at all. To be totally honest, I don't really understand it all that well. If myself or my child was in serious danger, I'd be most grateful for whatever the doctors did to save us. But not all women think that way. I do know one thing, it is NEVER the Dad/husband's fault. Ever. If it's anyone's fault it is the medical professionals. But, at the same time, are they supposed to let a woman or fetus die so she won't feel victimized? It's a difficult issue and counseling is needed by the patient. I have met only one woman who blames her child's father for her suffering during childbirth and she's bat **** crazy so I wouldn't go by her at all. I think 99% of women don't blame the child's father. And rightly so. But, to women who have experienced this feeling of violation during childbirth jumping back into a normal sex life is very difficult, much like it would be after an actual rape.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

notmyjamie said:


> *I take serious offense to that. I in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM was trying to imply that HE was responsible* if she was having difficulties after the birth of their child. I was giving a possible explanation as to why she might not want sex immediately after the birth of a child as I thought she may be in need of some counseling. I didn't make it up and *it's not a feminist thing at all. To be totally honest, I don't really understand it all that well.* If myself or my child was in serious danger, I'd be most grateful for whatever the doctors did to save us. But not all women think that way. I do know one thing, it is NEVER the Dad/husband's fault. Ever. If it's anyone's fault it is the medical professionals. But, at the same time, are they supposed to let a woman or fetus die so she won't feel victimized? It's a difficult issue and counseling is needed by the patient. I have met only one woman who blames her child's father for her suffering during childbirth and she's bat **** crazy so I wouldn't go by her at all. I think 99% of women don't blame the child's father. And right so. But, to women who have experienced this feeling of violation during childbirth jumping back into a normal sex life is very difficult, much like it would be after an actual rape.


You took serious offense to my opinion on an anonymous forum where we're all just playing armchair counselor? Jamie? 

I hope you can indulge my toxic masculinity for a minute so I can mansplain to you that maybe you shouldn't be so emotionally tied to a theory that you admittedly don't understand. This pregnancy rape sounds like one of many theories that our media is always trotting out as proof of how much women are suffering and are victims of the patriarchy. 

I admittedly didn't read your post but was just triggered when I saw "rape pregnancy." Wow, I guess we on the right can be snow flakes too. 

Anyway, @notmyjamie I apologize for assuming you were blaming OP for his situation. I now see that your post came from a sincere place and it was your way of helping OP see his situation from another vantage point.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

jsmart said:


> You took serious offense to my opinion on an anonymous forum where we're all just playing armchair counselor? Jamie?
> 
> I hope you can indulge my toxic masculinity for a minute so I can mansplain to you that maybe you shouldn't be so emotionally tied to a theory that you admittedly don't understand. This pregnancy rape sounds like one of many theories that our media is always trotting out as proof of how much women are suffering and are victims of the patriarchy.
> 
> ...


I have to say, I don't buy the birth rape thing either. I had very difficult births BOTH times. The first time because of me and the second time because my son had issues. I HAVE been raped, and it's nauseating to me that giving birth, no matter how hard, is compared to the trauma I went through during a sexual assault.

It's easier to have a baby in a hospital in 2019 than it ever has been.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

jsmart said:


> You took serious offense to my opinion on an anonymous forum where we're all just playing armchair counselor? Jamie?
> 
> Ok, serious offense was knee jerk reaction I admit. But I took the time to write out my entire post with nothing but good intentions and you came along and made it sound like I was some ***** forcing my feminist views on him when nothing could be further from the truth. I am not even a feminist. LOL
> 
> ...


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> I have to say, I don't buy the birth rape thing either. I had very difficult births BOTH times. The first time because of me and the second time because my son had issues. I HAVE been raped, and it's nauseating to me that giving birth, no matter how hard, is compared to the trauma I went through during a sexual assault.
> 
> It's easier to have a baby in a hospital in 2019 than it ever has been.


And this is one of the reasons I object to the term rape when it comes to birth trauma. For starters rape is about one person exhibiting control over another in a most vile way. Performing life saving procedures is done with no bad intentions at all. Is it fun to have someone put their arm up to their elbow inside you just after you've give birth? Hell no. But that's still not rape. It can be traumatizing for some women, absolutely, but it's still not rape.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> And this is one of the reasons I object to the term rape when it comes to birth trauma. For starters rape is about one person exhibiting control over another is a most vile way. Performing life saving procedures is done with no bad intentions at all. Is it fun to have someone put their arm up to their elbow inside you just after you've give birth? Hell no. But that's still not rape. It can be traumatizing for some women, absolutely, but it's still not rape.


Sorry I got all triggery.

I did mention also on the first or second page that her sudden about face could be due to CSA. It is VERY common of something like the birth of one's child or even the death of the abuser to trigger a sudden onslaught of PTSD concerning CSA.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I have to say, I don't buy the birth rape thing either. I had very difficult births BOTH times. The first time because of me and the second time because my son had issues. I HAVE been raped, and it's nauseating to me that giving birth, no matter how hard, is compared to the trauma I went through during a sexual assault.
> 
> It's easier to have a baby in a hospital in 2019 than it ever has been.


I don't imagine the poster was exaggerating or in anyway misrepresenting the issue with the person's situation. It is unnecessary to compare people's trauma either by assuming that yours is worse or by using the word that is meant for something else, in my opinion.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> Sorry I got all triggery.
> 
> I did mention also on the first or second page that her sudden about face could be due to CSA. It is VERY common of something like the birth of one's child or even the death of the abuser to trigger a sudden onslaught of PTSD concerning CSA.


No apology needed. I feel the same way that you do. It's not rape. It's trauma. I especially feel that way because by their definition, I have been a rapist during my career. I do those things that sometimes traumatize women. I try to explain what I'm doing first and be as gentle as possible but honestly, patients don't always remember that part of things when they look back later. It's very sad and upsetting, but I am NO rapist. Probably another reason I took such offense. 

To bring this back to the point of the original thread, I do wonder as well if OP's wife has some history of rape, CSA, or abuse in the past as well. The reluctance to go to counseling might be because she doesn't want to have to face it.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Spicy said:


> I would say,
> 
> “I’m 41. I need and want to have sex. I’m going to start doing it regularly this next week. Who do you recommend I do that with?”


Just prior to saying that “I’m 41. I need and want to have sex. I’m going to start doing it regularly this next week. Who do you recommend I do that with?”, I would start off by saying "When we married I took a vow of monogamy, not a vow of celibacy".


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

TRy said:


> Just prior to saying that “I’m 41. I need and want to have sex. I’m going to start doing it regularly this next week. Who do you recommend I do that with?”, I would start off by saying "When we married I took a vow of monogamy, not a vow of celibacy".


Perfection!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Laser123 said:


> I try to talk to her about it and tell her I need affection no matter what it is and she tells me to stop it and leave her alone.


In addition to my previous questions... 

An option is to do what she asks - and leave her alone. 

That essentially means dissolving the marriage. 

If both people aren't willing to step up, listen, understand, and attempt to meet the needs of the marriage (whether through counseling then action, or some other means), the writing is typically on the wall - as that's not love and commitment. See it for what it is.


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