# Husband Ogles Young Girls/women



## redpoppies34 (Dec 14, 2016)

I've been through a lot this year with H about him going to strip clubs, sexting etc. and basically being a pig when talking on text with friends. Kinda like they try to outdo each other seeing hot women or something. I basically told him all that stops if we are to stay married. I always felt like he would check other women out when we were in public, it used to be a quick look but past five years maybe more of a stare. Well we have made tons of progress i.e. him not ever going to strip clubs again, deleting old text strings, any nude photos he had and basically a recommitment to our marriage. 

However, I still get the creepy feel he is looking sometimes. For example we visited my college son's school and in a bar with my son I see him checking out this girl in front of the bar. And I catch him and am like why are you staring and he says "oh , she just has nice mannerisms, maybe she could be for our son. Well he has a long time gf so not appropriate, and he just kept watching her and it PISSED ME OFF> esp. given our past. Its creepy , they are 18. They I see him do it like 5 more times in a bar with kids dancing. Like looks them up and down. I do not ever do that.

Then this weekend at a football game, same thing, its like a girl (17-18) will walk in in leggings or tight tank top, long blond hair and I turn and watch his eyes up and down her. I see him do it. Then when I accuse him he denies, says I'm ludicrous. 

Ok, I don't get mad if its some voluptuous 25-45 we don't know in a random area, but I feel like my son's college and high school football games and people we know he needs to be solid. Don't you agree? I know he is doing this. I'm not crazy!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There are glances, looks and stares. 

I think it is natural for many men to glance when an attractive female walks by - even a young but sexually mature one. When that glance becomes too long is not an easy line to draw. 

Can you accept glances? He may lie about not glancing if he feels you will get angry at something that is almost automatic. 

OTOH if he is staring for long periods of time, that is different.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

redpoppies34 said:


> However, I still get the creepy feel he is looking sometimes. For example we visited my college son's school and in a bar with my son I see him checking out this girl in front of the bar. And I catch him and am like why are you staring and he says "oh , she just has nice mannerisms, maybe she could be for our son. Well he has a long time gf so not appropriate, and he just kept watching her and it PISSED ME OFF> esp. given our past. Its creepy , they are 18. They I see him do it like 5 more times in a bar with kids dancing. Like looks them up and down. I do not ever do that.
> 
> Then this weekend at a football game, same thing, its like a girl (17-18) will walk in in leggings or tight tank top, long blond hair and I turn and watch his eyes up and down her. I see him do it. Then when I accuse him he denies, says I'm ludicrous.


You married a classless pig.

At his age, he should know by now how to act like a freakin' human being in public and not some middle-aged perverted dog in heat who can't control himself. What's next for him - hanging out on the street corner in front of the high school so he can watch the teenage girls walk by when school lets out?

You can't control what this pig does. But I'm willing to bet a whole lot of money he's been surfing porn using a private browser window to do it. It leaves no trace, no history, and once you close out the window, it's like it never happened. I don't believe for one MINUTE this guy isn't surfing porn whenever he gets the chance. Not ONE minute.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

redpoppies34 said:


> I've been through a lot this year with H about him going to strip clubs, sexting etc. and basically being a pig when talking on text with friends. Kinda like they try to outdo each other seeing hot women or something. I basically told him all that stops if we are to stay married.


So have you left him yet? 

A boundary is useless unless you intend to enforce it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

He is being rude and disrespectful towards you. A man of his age is quite capable of stopping himself from ogling other women, especially ones of his sons age! Then the lying is jut as bad. I would just say, I am not going out with you again until you start acting like my husband and treating me with respect.


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

I've discussed what's going on from a male perspective in a recent blog post. Have a look at Why Do Men Look at Other Women? and let me know if any of it is helpful.

It sounds as though he has crossed the line.

Huge copy and paste follows:-

What to do
Check it isn't a symptom of bigger trouble
Do a mental check of the relationship. Are there any other signs that he's not happy? Any issues in the bedroom?

Is it your problem?
Are you projecting your own insecurities onto innocent actions? If this is more about your own fears and self-doubt, then picking a fight with him won't resolve anything.

Instead, work on yourself. Are you ashamed about how you look? Then explore why you feel that way, but also take practical steps like reviewing your wardrobe.

Deal
You might decide this is the best option when:
His glances are relatively subtle
You don't feel threatened
No disrespect is intended
Accept the realities of human nature, and let it go.

Join in the fun
My wife is smart (sometimes). She understands there will always be younger sexy women. She also knows I'm lucky to have caught her, and that I know this. So, often she'll point out provocative sights to me! It's a type of people-watching, a game that actually brings us closer together and even raises the sensual tension. Her confidence is so much sexier than her disapproval would be.

Have it out with him
If none of these options appeal to you, then it's time to talk to him.

If you're going to raise the issue...
If you're not fully in control of yourself (and which of us truly is?), don't raise the issue there and then.

At a relaxed place and time, start in the spirit of enquiry and learning. Smile and ask "What was it about her that caught your eye?" or "I've noticed you sometimes staring at babes. What's going on with that?" With this approach, he's more likely to pause and actually think about the topic, rather than denying or becoming defensive.

Explain how you feel, taking responsibility for those feelings. "I feel old and unattractive when I see you staring at babes", not "You make me feel ugly".

This is one of those Mars/Venus subjects where he really will have difficulty understanding your point of view. After all, he knows you have no reason to be concerned. Stay calm, focused and patient.

There isn't a real right and wrong. Aim for an open discussion rather than an argument.

Unless you have other evidence to the contrary, believe him when he says it means nothing and he only wants you.

It may not be reasonable to expect him never to look again, but you should expect to be heard, and treated with respect.​


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Dave-
The guy is a creep. As in HW creepy.
Ok?


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

You might be right. But it's still worth trying to understand things from his point of view.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Dave- there is no excuse for the amount of ANY AMOUNT OF ogling ... Especially underage GIRLS.

What did you tell OP to do? WORK ON HER WARDROBE?

Gross- 

Seriously - go Mars and Venus straight up where the sun don't shine.

Bye Dave


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

Wow, that's really sticking it to me. Not sure how I'll recover from such articulate arguments.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

David Darling said:


> I've discussed what's going on from a male perspective in a recent blog post. Have a look at the link below and let me know if any of it is helpful.
> 
> It sounds as though he has crossed the line.
> 
> ...


This is good advice for a reasonable man.
A reasonable man would never need this advice.

What we have here is an immature boor. A boar.
Not a pig. He has grown bolder, has tusks.

Put saltpeter in his food.
And salt on his peter.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Dave- don't ever tell any woman to work on their wardrobe- ever. Ok?

Unless you want to start the Darling Dave Frumpy Wife Wardrobe Fund. Dave coming to you grumpiest/frumpiest LD wives. with a free wardrobe upgrade- according to Darling Dave.

I like this! What do you think! You could be INSTIE famous!!!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

My wife and I both look at both sexes.

People are attractive and fun to look at.

I don't think that is the issue with your H.

His past behavior and disrespect have damaged your marriage.

My wife and I are healthy in our relationship and outlook. We can talk openly about hunky guys and beautiful babes but you and your H aren't there yet for good reasons it seems.

Is there a way that you and him could approach getting healthy about this?

He shuts out your anger and your only response, understandably, seems to be anger.

It isn't a viable relationship going forward.


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

True *SunCMars*. Beautifully put.

I did start my article:



> I'm going to start by explaining what's going on here (and you might not like it). I'm not justifying disrespectful behaviour though.
> 
> This article is more about your average unreconstructed guy, and less about sexist pigs who should be in counselling.


*redpoppies34* will know what type of guy she's got.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Darling-
Kudos to you!


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

I don’t get the whole stripclib thing. Even as a single dude, if you can’t touch, what’s the point? It’s a little messed up frequenting one while you are married. The gross guy texts, those are borderline, depending what they are saying.

Now, regarding looming at these girls. First, they aren’t underage, they are in college. But that is a digression. How noticeable is his staring? Like, have other people noticed? Or have you just been watching him like a hawk? I understand your issue, but life is short and checking out some hot girls isn’t that big of a deal. I can understand your concern when it’s coupled with the previous stuff.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

Wow I had to actually log in to respond to this. 
Dave's point - men are going to look, get over it.
Men don't have to look and I won't get over it. I don't need to look or dress any better. Any look by my relationship partner is disrespectful to me. Know that if there is that kind of thing going on I'll leave. I mean, I don't look. Other people don't need to either.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@redpoppies34, subtlety is lost on your husband. I'm not going to rehash everything that's already been said but it sounds like your husband lacks empathy. He's low on the emotional intelligence scale. Nothing you say to him will make him understand your point. The only way these types of people "get it" is when they experience the situation for themselves or feel a negative consequence. For example, if you put it in terms that affect him directly, such as "how would you feel is some old guy was ogling your daughter/sister/niece?" or if you call him out, loudly, next time he does it in your presence. 

I agree ogling is disgusting behavior and totally disrespectful but if you're not going to set a boundary, WITH CONSEQUENCES, then you might as well ignore it. This is either going to be the hill you die or not. No half measures.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Looks are ok. Ogling is way overboard and very disrespectful especially if he knows you are bothered by it. I would just tell him you aren’t going out with him anymore till he grows the **** up.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

He is drooling over HS girls at her son's High School football games.



You have a right to be embarrassed and ashamed for your husband. 

This is not normal, not ok and downright mortifying for you .

I'm blown away after the whole Harvey Weinstein implosion that anyone is even hinting that boys will be boys.

Kick him to the curb/kerb.

Tomorrow.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sandcastle said:


> He is drooling over HS girls at her son's High School football games.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I so agree, The idea that 'its just what men do' is so demeaning of those men who treat their wives with respect and actually act like mature people and control their stares. I don't stare at good looking men , and I wouldn't be with a man who thought it was ok to stare at other women. 
You can learn to bounce the eyes and look away, it becomes a habit if you do it enough.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

David Darling said:


> You might be right. But it's still worth trying to understand things from his point of view.


We do understand, he is treating his wife with disrespect and acting like a 15 year old. Men like that will look no mater what they wife does and how she dresses, its nothing to do with her, but all to do with him.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I so agree, The idea that 'its just what men do' is so demeaning of those men who treat their wives with respect and actually act like mature people and control their stares. I don't stare at good looking men , and I wouldn't be with a man who thought it was ok to stare at other women.
> You can learn to bounce the eyes and look away, it becomes a habit if you do it enough.


Rubbish. Jesus never bounced his eyes and I won't either. Unless you want to pretend women are jumping on trampolines?

The heart needs straightening out. Bouncing your eyes is idiotic.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Rubbish. Jesus never bounced his eyes and I won't either. Unless you want to pretend women are jumping on trampolines?
> 
> The heart needs straightening out. Bouncing your eyes is idiotic.


So you don't think that you have control over what you look at? 
Its a great way that works for many men with this issue. BTW you have no idea what Jesus did over this, except that He warns men about this in strong terms.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

This sounds like more than just a guy who looks at other women, he was sexting other women, she posts in the OP. 

Sounds like another story of a guy who wants his wife to take care of everything at home, you know...so he can have the benefits of marriage while he pretends he's single and younger with his friends and other women. I don't believe he doesn't flirt with other women when you're not around, considering he was going to strip clubs and sexting at one time.

The world is filled with better men, OP. Stay with this guy at your own risk.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

I'm 40 and I don't "check out" 18 year old girls, to me they're kids, I don't think it's normal behavior to be excused as "boys will be boys" or "locker room talk". It's a cop-out. I may check out a lady in her 30's unwittingly, but I'm not looking at 17-24 year old kids as sex objects, too young.

Your husband may need therapy for sex addiction or something.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I'm 40 and I don't "check out" 18 year old girls, to me they're kids, I don't think it's normal behavior to be excused as "boys will be boys" or "locker room talk". It's a cop-out. I may check out a lady in her 30's unwittingly, but I'm not looking at 17-24 year old kids as sex objects, too young.
> 
> Your husband may need therapy for sex addiction or something.


l read a good article recently, written by a psychologist who says that sex addiction idea is used by men as an excuse to behave badly. Sort of like 'well I cant help it I have an addiction.'


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> So you don't think that you have control over what you look at?
> Its a great way that works for many men with this issue. BTW you have no idea what Jesus did over this, except that He warns men about this in strong terms.


Being that I believe Jesus is God and not only sees everything but created it, I think I know exactly that he never bounced his eyes.

Retarded! Cleansing the heart is what is needed. God made people just fine and we are fun to look at.

All the crap in our hearts is not his fault. I cleanse my heart and look on his creation with wonder and enjoyment. Honestly, someone will lust no matter what you are wearing and women are just as bad about it as men in my experience and within biblical reference.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I don't think ogling is the core issue here. I think OP's husband has shown himself to be an inconsiderate, cheating creep.

That is his core issue and I don't believe it has been dealt with.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

People can look at people of the opposite sex without ''lust in their minds and hearts.'' So, I don't believe that lust is an automatic for people who check out the opposite sex.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> So you don't think that you have control over what you look at?
> Its a great way that works for many men with this issue. BTW you have no idea what Jesus did over this, except that He warns men about this in strong terms.


To answer the first part, If I am out in public, I look at whatever is out there. I control what I choose to watch for entertainment, TV and movies as well as live shows and I never choose to watch low brow T&A flicks.

While I look at all kinds of people, I only lust for /desire sex with, my wife.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Being that I believe Jesus is God and not only sees everything but created it, I think I know exactly that he never bounced his eyes.
> 
> Retarded! Cleansing the heart is what is needed. God made people just fine and we are fun to look at.
> 
> All the crap in our hearts is not his fault. I cleanse my heart and look on his creation with wonder and enjoyment. Honestly, someone will lust no matter what you are wearing and women are just as bad about it as men in my experience and within biblical reference.



Its about control and discipline as well as what is inside. I make sure that I dont stare at or ogle other men. Its unloving and disrespectful to my husband. We all get tempted by all sorts of things, its what we do with that temptation that matters.
Jesus warns us about this.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

redpoppies34 said:


> I've been through a lot this year with H about him going to strip clubs, sexting etc. and basically being a pig when talking on text with friends. Kinda like they try to outdo each other seeing hot women or something. I basically told him all that stops if we are to stay married. I always felt like he would check other women out when we were in public, it used to be a quick look but past five years maybe more of a stare. Well we have made tons of progress i.e. him not ever going to strip clubs again, deleting old text strings, any nude photos he had and basically a recommitment to our marriage.
> 
> However, I still get the creepy feel he is looking sometimes. For example we visited my college son's school and in a bar with my son I see him checking out this girl in front of the bar. And I catch him and am like why are you staring and he says "oh , she just has nice mannerisms, maybe she could be for our son. Well he has a long time gf so not appropriate, and he just kept watching her and it PISSED ME OFF> esp. given our past. Its creepy , they are 18. They I see him do it like 5 more times in a bar with kids dancing. Like looks them up and down. I do not ever do that.
> 
> ...





Let me tell you about us guys.


Guys are very visually stimulated, hotter outfits, in better shape, and yes even younger ladies.


When Mrs.CuddleBug and I go out shopping, eating out, etc., I do notice all the hot ladies. I've seen ladies in their teens dressing like older women and they're hot, I've seen older women dressing like teenagers and they're hot. Teens, 20's, 30's, 40, 50' s, it doesn't matter.


Now do I purposely check out these hotties when Mrs.CuddleBug and I are out together, nope. I do this carefully and not blatantly obvious.


Women in college are in their 20's and hot. Us guys will look and the ladies love it, the attention they get.


I'm married and I don't go to the bars, strip clubs or sexting the ladies. Never. But I do check them all out and even the 17 to 18 year olds dressing like older ladies, and yes they're hot and they all know it. Guarantee you they're having lots of sex.


I've had teenage ladies hit on me walking down the street and going out of their way to chat with me about nothing.


Women are more mature mentally and physically than guys their own age. Teenage ladies are not mentally or physically teens, but us guy are.


I know quite a few ladies in their 20's that are even dating guys in their 40's........


Or teen ladies dating guys in their 20's and 30's.......


Today it doesn't matter anyone like it did back in the day. Just the way it is now.


But your hubby needs to stop the strip clubs, bars, sexting altogether period!!!! He can look but be discrete and respect you.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

discrete looking = still not respectful


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

David Darling said:


> You might be right. But it's still worth trying to understand things from his point of view.


 @David Darling, her husband thinks it is acceptable to have cyber affairs with other women by having sexually charged text conversations with them.

To be honest, I do not give a rodentine's hot little patootie about his point of view.


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

The post was about ogling other women. 

If you're not interested in your partner's point of view, how do you resolve issues? Ultimatums and threats? That seems to be a common approach in this forum.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

David Darling said:


> The post was about ogling other women.
> 
> If you're not interested in your partner's point of view, how do you resolve issues? Ultimatums and threats? That seems to be a common approach in this forum.


What possible reason could a man have for ogling a woman? It's disgusting behavior. I guess the only "acceptable" (and I use that term losely) reason is that he's mentally ill or a sexual predator. There is no other acceptable excuse. Everything else is bull ****. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

Lila said:


> What possible reason could a man have for ogling a woman?


How will you know unless you ask him? This technique is known as communication and empathy, and I find it quite useful in marriage. _Discovering_ what's going on from his POV is quite different from _accepting_ his behaviour.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I don't care who's visual..... women like to look at good looking men too. By all means look. 

But there's this little thing called respect, and if my hb can't have it when he's with me then we won't have as good of a marital bond as we might otherwise have.

And that might lead to undesirable things like me being less excited about sex with him, or even me being open to the oglings of other men. 

Because if he can't respect me and our marriage enough to be discreet and not be a jerk then why should I respect him and our marriage enough to keep good boundaries myself?

All actions and attitudes have reactions. We all need to decide if what we're getting is worth the price we're going to pay.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

David Darling said:


> The post was about ogling other women.
> 
> If you're not interested in your partner's point of view, how do you resolve issues? Ultimatums and threats? That seems to be a common approach in this forum.


Actually, that was only partially correct:-



> I've been through a lot this year with H about him going to strip clubs, sexting etc. and basically being a pig when talking on text with friends. Kinda like they try to outdo each other seeing hot women or something. I basically told him all that stops if we are to stay married. I always felt like he would check other women out when we were in public, it used to be a quick look but past five years maybe more of a stare. Well we have made tons of progress i.e. him not ever going to strip clubs again, deleting old text strings, any nude photos he had and basically a recommitment to our marriage.


ogling other women was one of the ways that he seems to be disrespecting her.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Men look, a quick look is ok. Staring at said woman while I'm trying to talk to my husband (he doesn't do this, just as an example) is not ok.

I get that men look at attractive women, just don't go overboard or voice your appreciation while your wife/SO is with you.

Looking is very different to ogling - that is gross and inappropriate, especially when the "women" are actually teenage girls.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

David Darling said:


> How will you know unless you ask him? This technique is known as communication and empathy, and I find it quite useful in marriage. _Discovering_ what's going on from his POV is quite different from _accepting_ his behaviour.


Again, ogling is disgusting behavior. OP could ask her husband his reasons but nothing he says will make it less disgusting or acceptable. 

It's like someone coming on here complaining their spouse picks his/her nose in pubic and then eats the boogers. It's disgusting and nothing the booger eater says will change that fact. 

The only reason for listening to OP's husband's explanation would be to determine whether he's just run-of-the-mill disrespectful or if he's actually a sexual predator/mentally ill. That's it. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lila said:


> Again, ogling is disgusting behavior. OP could ask her husband his reasons but nothing he says will make it less disgusting or acceptable.
> 
> It's like someone coming on here complaining their spouse picks his/her nose in pubic and then eats the boogers. It's disgusting and nothing the booger eater says will change that fact.
> 
> ...


And putting to one side, for the moment, that he has been cheating on her with EAs, etc.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

katies said:


> discrete looking = still not respectful


Absolutely, because then its deceptive as well.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

David Darling said:


> The post was about ogling other women.
> 
> If you're not interested in your partner's point of view, how do you resolve issues? Ultimatums and threats? That seems to be a common approach in this forum.


That's just the thread title, the complete picture is that her husband has sexted with other women, gone to strip clubs, AND ogles women. Sounds like a guy worth fighting for. lol

You seem to think that men are so different than women, and that it's instinctive to be a jerk. It really isn't. I have a lot of good men in my life who value women...my husband, my dad, my uncles, etc. They don't need to serve up BS excuses for BS behavior.

If it were just a matter of occasionally looking at other women, but this guy sounds like a jerk, and has no respect for his wife or women. If you think that is ''instinctive,'' then you'd be wrong. It's actually a lack of good character.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> That's just the thread title, the complete picture is that her husband has sexted with other women, gone to strip clubs, AND ogles women. Sounds like a guy worth fighting for. lol
> 
> You seem to think that men are so different than women, and that it's instinctive to be a jerk. It really isn't. I have a lot of good men in my life who value women...my husband, my dad, my uncles, etc. They don't need to serve up BS excuses for BS behavior.
> 
> If it were just a matter of occasionally looking at other women, but this guy sounds like a jerk, and has no respect for his wife or women. If you think that is ''instinctive,'' then you'd be wrong. It's actually a lack of good character.


Great post, I too know good men who would never act that way.


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## redpoppies34 (Dec 14, 2016)

Thank you Dave first of all. Actually a mans point of view quite helps although thank you females bc I know you share my pain when men do this crap!! 

My husband does tell me I look great for 45 compared to many women my age. I get whistles from cars etc when I'm out jogging even in my relatively tame neighborhood (yes mostly drivers going through lol) so I don't feel like Im frumpy or ugly but YES he does make me feel my age when I see him eyeing other younger people. 

I feel like it is somewhere between a glance and a look bc I know he is looking up and down their body and then thinking for a minute. That is what creeps me. Besides, it would be ok if it was a 25 year old or older maybe. But these girls are like 17-18!! My son's age!! And to tell you the truth their faces aren't all that attractive (I mean its dark or sunglasses) so I know he is just looking at bodies and that creeps me out more. 

I mean even if some super hot 18 model walked by then, yes, have at it a good long look. But these are like everyday girls nothing special so why feel the need to look their bodies up and down, I just don't get it. 

And what is weird is I can see a young girl in leggings with a curvy body walk buy and I can bet 100% my husband has noticed and sure enough his head turns that way. So what I wonder does he do when I'm not around. It would be just nice if he could once or twice not look. I'm not going to be able to handle this when I'm 55 or 65! 

I do totally tell him when I get a whistle in the neighborhood (lol usually a garbage man or grass mower man) but I do try to tell him, dude I could be scoping out men but I don't. I totally don't and would feel like a creep and I personally think my husband is the hottest guy around even when he has gained weight or he's bald. 

Why can't he be like me??!! thx guys!


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## redpoppies34 (Dec 14, 2016)

argh sorry this kinda bums me out. Why do you guys have to look at teenagers dressing hot?? I can guarantee you your wife probably knows you do this. I could see my husband doing this (like feel it) when I was out. 

The difference I feel like is this: Women might look at a hot college football player in tight pants and think "oh he's attractive and what a nice build/chest/ firm rear end. Cute guy. But thats it. 

I feel like whats going on in mens minds is "ohh that young chick looks hot in those tight pants and ahh that long blond hair right over her curvy nice young ass and wow what great firm chest and how oh what I'd like to do to her...." 

Am I right??? guys - what do you think? Its the things you guys are thinking that bums us out with your look... not just the look


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## redpoppies34 (Dec 14, 2016)

PS. sorry to say but The ladies don't really love your looks and check outs. Not if you are double or triple their age. Sorry, I was in my 20s once and got the same looks from older men and honestly I was like "eww you older creep" and if a guy did it in front of his wife I seriously felt bad for the wife and thought the guy was a creep. Even if they guy was hot, I thought there must be something wrong with him if he is checking out me. Like maybe he doesn't ever get any.

The other night in a restaurant I was sitting with my husband and an older 65 yr man was staring at me and his wife turned around to see what he was looking at... and I thought to myself "that guy is such a creep. To look at me while his cute wife is staring into his eyes". I felt bad for the wife and I kinda gave him the eyeball. 

IF I pass a man and a woman together, I warmly look at the woman and smile. To give her security that I don't want to receive her husbands looks (just in case he is one of those creeps). I never smile at the man without first smiling at the woman. I know how it feels!


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## GuacaColey (Sep 19, 2017)

I was stocking the shelves at work (2nd job) last night which requires me to bend over some with the the lower shelves, and stood up kind of quick to notice this man probably in his late 50s staring at my @$$. He at least had the good sense not to keep staring though and about took out the rack next to him as he turned around, trying to hide the fact he was looking. 

I am not a spring chicken (33) but I definitely wasn't flattered, more like I realize God made women's bodies to be beautiful and men are going to look. So I kind of just shrugged it off. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuacaColey (Sep 19, 2017)

Also- it's not just the "men are visually wired" thing. Because some women are too. I think there are things to the male physique that make them uniquely attractive, (forearms, back, hands.... I have a weird thing about hands)

But when STBX and I were still together I would observe that a man was attractive, but not let it linger long enough in my brain where I started thinking lustful thoughts about him. 

I'm not sure OP's husband is noticing the women, then allowing the thoughts to generate fantasies that's a problem for sure. 

But only he knows if he's doing this or not 🤷🏼*♀


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> That's just the thread title, the complete picture is that her husband has sexted with other women, gone to strip clubs, AND ogles women. Sounds like a guy worth fighting for. lol
> 
> You seem to think that men are so different than women, and that it's instinctive to be a jerk. It really isn't. I have a lot of good men in my life who value women...my husband, my dad, my uncles, etc. They don't need to serve up BS excuses for BS behavior.
> 
> If it were just a matter of occasionally looking at other women, but this guy sounds like a jerk, and has no respect for his wife or women. If you think that is ''instinctive,'' then you'd be wrong. It's actually a lack of good character.


Men on average have a much higher desire for sex for the sake of sex than women do. A woman "controlling her stare" is much easier because women are much less likely to be turned on by an average guy than the other way round. Imagine you haven't eaten in a week and someone wafts a delicious meal in front of your nose. Are you going to have trouble not staring? This is like the male sex drive. 

I always say it's a tribute to men that achieve lots in their lives that they manage to do it and not get distracted by their sex drives.

There are some interesting stories about transgender men when they first go on testosterone therapy. Their sex drive goes through the roof.

None of this justifies being a disrespectful ass like your husband is being.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

My theory has always been you can look at the menu as long as you eat at home. Quick looks are common for most men. However prolonged stares are a different story and disrespectful.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Good Guy said:


> Men on average have a much higher desire for sex for the sake of sex than women do. A woman "controlling her stare" is much easier because women are much less likely to be turned on by an average guy than the other way round. Imagine you haven't eaten in a week and someone wafts a delicious meal in front of your nose. Are you going to have trouble not staring? This is like the male sex drive.
> 
> I always say it's a tribute to men that achieve lots in their lives that they manage to do it and not get distracted by their sex drives.
> 
> ...


My husband isn't being an ass, you're thinking of the OP's husband. I don't agree with your opinions of men and women, but you're entitled to think as you wish.

And this isn't about just staring, the OP's husband was hanging at strip clubs, sexting with women, and sounded like he had a porn issue. I mean, you can make all the excuses you like for men, and while men do have high sex drives, turning into a disgusting pig who has no respect for women, is not ''instinctive.'' I highly recommend to any woman who has a husband that is that ''distracted'' ...that she dumps him.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Make sure your past with your H, and your self esteem, are not coloring your impression of his behavior. I will partake in a few glances at a beautiful woman whether my SO is around or not. The women I've been with who got pissed off ALL had low self esteem. The ones with good self esteem would often look for themselves, and usually never mention it to me, unless it was something like "yeah, she's got it going on."


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Absolutely, because then its deceptive as well.


Telephoto lens. Problem solved


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OnTheRocks said:


> Make sure your past with your H, and your self esteem, are not coloring your impression of his behavior. I will partake in a few glances at a beautiful woman whether my SO is around or not. The women I've been with who got pissed off ALL had low self esteem. The ones with good self esteem would often look for themselves, and usually never mention it to me, unless it was something like "yeah, she's got it going on."


My wife often points out young, stick thin women and says: "Isn't she beautiful?"

To which I shrug and say "I suppose so."

She eventually realised that I like women who are far more substantial in build. Women who look like her, in fact.

As for the creepy stares from older men? I think this is because our male libedo doesn't age. 

If a man sees a woman of 18 who he would have found attractive at 18, when he hits 50 he will still find her attractive as his taste in female beauty probably has not changed much over the years.

Also, as I aged I began to appreciate that women 10 years older than me were still attractive to me.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Great- 

Can the guy AT LEAST- just watch the football game and nothing else for 3 hours- at his Son's Friday Night and just PRETEND to respect his kid and wife?

Or is that too much. To ask. Let alone expect- for the KID- forget about the frigid wife.

Dude- can you curb your testestorone for 3 hours? We know you don't get it at home.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

OnTheRocks said:


> Make sure your past with your H, and your self esteem, are not coloring your impression of his behavior. I will partake in a few glances at a beautiful woman whether my SO is around or not. The women I've been with who got pissed off ALL had low self esteem. The ones with good self esteem would often look for themselves, and usually never mention it to me, unless it was something like "yeah, she's got it going on."


For us its not about low self esteem, but about what standards we have. My husband is one of the most secure in himself men I have ever met, but I still wouldn't dream of ogling a good looking guy out of respect for him and because its not how I want to behave. I wouldn't be with a man who did this to me either.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

^^^ this.

women with high self esteem don't put up with this ****. 
My IC told me that her husband used to do this. She told him that when older guys do it they're now considered creepy old men by the women they ogle. She told him that EWWW is what these girls are thinking. That stopped it. 
What I hate - the looking and then denying. Just ****ing cop to it.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

He's a man, he's going to look at other women, even very young women because they are physically attractive. They are sexy and pretty and he's enjoying the view and appreciates their beauty and wishes he could see or do more. It's true. 

He shouldn't over do it around you, his wife, it is disrespectful and hurtful to you. 

Tip for the guys, stand behind your wife and place a hand on her shoulder or hip and she won't see you enjoying the beauties. Don't let her see you do it. If she does catch you make a remark like," I cannot believe how that woman is dressed, she has no shame." As if you're disgusted. Works for me.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JayDee7 said:


> He's a man, he's going to look at other women, even very young women because they are physically attractive. They are sexy and pretty and he's enjoying the view and appreciates their beauty and wishes he could see or do more. It's true.
> 
> He shouldn't over do it around you, his wife, it is disrespectful and hurtful to you.
> 
> Tip for the guys, stand behind your wife and place a hand on her shoulder or hip and she won't see you enjoying the beauties. Don't let her see you do it. If she does catch you make a remark like," I cannot believe how that woman is dressed, she has no shame." As if you're disgusted. Works for me.


Are you ok with deceiving your wife?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Are you ok with deceiving your wife?


Please stop taking the bate.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Please stop taking the bate.


Ok but just wondered if he was ok with deceiving his wife behind her back?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Ok but just wondered if he was ok with deceiving his wife behind her back?


He writes advice about how to do it on a message board, I think he is fine with it. :surprise:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> He writes advice about how to do it on a message board, I think he is fine with it. :surprise:


How sad. :frown2:


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

I'm sorry I came off so crass. As I stated, men should not check out other women in front of their wives, it's disrespectful. I'll add that we shouldn't check anyone else out at all ideally, but that's not realistic. 
I'm sure that my wife notices good looking men and maybe has a fleeting naughty thought, she's human it happens. I know I'm guilty of it, but I don't let my wife see me do it. 
It's not easy. We have a vacation beach home and there are always beautiful bikinis walking around. I pretend to not notice when I'm with my wife, but when she's not there I look. I'll stand behind her sometimes and look, too. It happens, I'm just a man. I'm not cheating or going to strip clubs, but yes I am guilty of checking out women. Very guilty. No porn though, luckily I have a great love life with my wife to the point that I am never "hard up" and desperate enough to have to self pleasure. 
If you've never checked out someone of the opposite sex, good for you.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

katies said:


> ^^^ this.
> 
> women with high self esteem don't put up with this ****.
> My IC told me that her husband used to do this. She told him that when older guys do it they're now considered creepy old men by the women they ogle. She told him that EWWW is what these girls are thinking. That stopped it.
> What I hate - the looking and then denying. Just ****ing cop to it.


The problem is, when you have men like Hugh Hefner sending messages to men that even if you're 90 years old, young hot women will still want you...it sends mixed messages to men. Meanwhile, they didn't want HIM, they wanted his money. I honestly think some men can't make that distinction.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

JayDee7 said:


> I'm sorry I came off so crass. As I stated, men should not check out other women in front of their wives, it's disrespectful. I'll add that we shouldn't check anyone else out at all ideally, but that's not realistic.
> I'm sure that my wife notices good looking men and maybe has a fleeting naughty thought, she's human it happens. I know I'm guilty of it, but I don't let my wife see me do it.
> It's not easy. We have a vacation beach home and there are always beautiful bikinis walking around. I pretend to not notice when I'm with my wife, but when she's not there I look. I'll stand behind her sometimes and look, too. It happens, I'm just a man. I'm not cheating or going to strip clubs, but yes I am guilty of checking out women. Very guilty. No porn though, luckily I have a great love life with my wife to the point that I am never "hard up" and desperate enough to have to self pleasure.
> If you've never checked out someone of the opposite sex, good for you.


Your wife probably checks out hot men. Checking out the opposite sex, isn't a club exclusive for men. lol


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

Good Guy said:


> Men on average have a much higher desire for sex for the sake of sex than women do. A woman "controlling her stare" is much easier because women are much less likely to be turned on by an average guy than the other way round. Imagine you haven't eaten in a week and someone wafts a delicious meal in front of your nose. Are you going to have trouble not staring? This is like the male sex drive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




NOPE. I have always had an insanely high sex drive, would love it several times a day and I’m 38. My H is low drive and at one point in our relationship we went nearly 13 months without sex. I did not at any point during that time turn into a lathering sex fiend when I saw a very attractive man. That, sir, is a total and complete cop out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> The problem is, when you have men like Hugh Hefner sending messages to men that even if you're 90 years old, young hot women will still want you...it sends mixed messages to men. Meanwhile, they didn't want HIM, they wanted his money. I honestly think some men can't make that distinction.


Yes, as if these young women would give a second look to a dirty old man if he wasn't very rich.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Yes, as if these young women would give a second look to a dirty old man if he wasn't very rich.


And yet I recall a story from about 30 years ago.

A very pretty young girl who was a model married a much older man.

His family said she was a gold digger and hated her.

He changed his will in her favour basically cutting off his children for disrespecting her.

When he died they took her to court to challenge the will.

The case was stopped when she committed suicide leaving a note thst said: "Without the man I love to share it with, my life had no meaning."


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> And yet I recall a story from about 30 years ago.
> 
> A very pretty young girl who was a model married a much older man.
> 
> ...



Thats a rare case. If she didn't want his money then why didn't she make sure that he left his own children some? Or give them some after his death instead of going to court?

How many 20 something year old ladies do you see with 60, 70 or 80 year old men if they aren't rich or famous? Yet so many rich and famous men have young women fawning over them. Its the lifestyle and money they want.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Dangerously immature, if you ask me.

If it were my daughter or wife that he was ogling, I’d be tempted to ask him to step out back where he could fully “ogle my fist!”*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Thats a rare case. If she didn't want his money then why didn't she make sure that he left his own children some? Or give them some after his death instead of going to court?
> 
> How many 20 something year old ladies do you see with 60, 70 or 80 year old men if they aren't rich or famous? Yet so many rich and famous men have young women fawning over them. Its the lifestyle and money they want.


She didn't take the family to court, they took her to court and, I seem to recall, not amenable to compromise.

I suppose it just got too much for her. Instead of mourning her husband she had to fight his family.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *Dangerously immature, if you ask me.
> 
> If it were my daughter or wife that he was ogling, I’d be tempted to ask him to step out back where he could fully “ogle my fist!”*


 A good point. I wonder how many of the men here who think this is ok, and even are deceptive to their wives about it, would feel the same if it was their 18 year old daughter who was being ogled.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> She didn't take the family to court, they took her to court and, I seem to recall, not amenable to compromise.
> 
> I suppose it just got too much for her. Instead of mourning her husband she had to fight his family.


You can see their point though. My brother and I lost most of our inheritance because my dad married again and had another child late in life, and left his and mums house to her. We had a good relationship with them both as well.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

JayDee7 said:


> I'll stand behind her sometimes and look, too.


You're the kind of creep that's skeeved me out since I was a teenager and for many years after. I've lost count of how many creepy middle aged men have gawked at me when their wives weren't looking. It's always repulsed me and I felt embarrassed for their wives that their fat, unattractive, balding, pervert husbands were acting like such classless pigs. 

But I actually also found it amusing because I realized men who looked like them could never score a beautiful 21 year old on their looks alone. Never. Unless she had daddy issues or he had a WHOLE lot of cash.

A *whole *lot. :rofl:


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> A good point. I wonder how many of the men here who think this is ok, and even are deceptive to their wives about it, would feel the same if it was their 18 year old daughter who was being ogled.


In my opinion, if fathers worried about their 18-year old daughters getting "checked out" by other men, their worries would be non-stop. It would also likely be hypocritical because most of fathers checked out other girls when they were young.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You're the kind of creep that's skeeved me out since I was a teenager and for many years after. I've lost count of how many creepy middle aged men have gawked at me when their wives weren't looking. It's always repulsed me and I felt embarrassed for their wives that their fat, unattractive, balding, pervert husbands were acting like such classless pigs.
> 
> But I actually also found it amusing because I realized men who looked like them could never score a beautiful 21 year old on their looks alone. Never. Unless she had daddy issues or he had a WHOLE lot of cash.
> 
> A *whole *lot. :rofl:


Did it repulse you when attractive men were caught looking at you? Would you also feel embarrassed for wives of those men? I'm just curious.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Men are going to stare. It's what they do. Some are just more overt than others. That said, if this IS going over the top to the point that people are being embarrassed by it, you have every right to have a boundary about it. 

But if you have a boundary, be forewarned, you must ALSO have a consequence or it's not a boundary, but just words. In this case a good boundary would be "I'm not going to argue with you whether you were or were not ogling some 17 year old; you will never admit it. But I also will not tolerate it, so be warned - any time I see you doing it, I'm going to pick up my stuff and leave. You can find your own way home."

And then you have to actually DO it.

Enough of these instances - where he might even have to explain why you left - and he'll start to respect you more and hopefully stop doing it.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

turnera said:


> - and he'll start to respect you more and hopefully stop doing it.


But you just said men just do it no matter what. So, does it have to do with disrespect or men being men?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

In a lot of cases any more, the only way to tell the difference between a 16 girl and 21 year old woman is to look at their drivers license.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

turnera said:


> Men are going to stare. It's what they do. Some are just more overt than others. That said, if this IS going over the top to the point that people are being embarrassed by it, you have every right to have a boundary about it.
> 
> But if you have a boundary, be forewarned, you must ALSO have a consequence or it's not a boundary, but just words. In this case a good boundary would be "I'm not going to argue with you whether you were or were not ogling some 17 year old; you will never admit it. But I also will not tolerate it, so be warned - any time I see you doing it, I'm going to pick up my stuff and leave. You can find your own way home."
> 
> ...


No, not all men do it, and its not just 'something that men do', as if they have no control over their eyes and minds. I know many men who have made that decision NOT to stare at other women and who will choose to look away. I love and respect those men, who control what they do with their eyes. Their wives feel special and respected. I know, I am one of them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> In a lot of cases any more, the only way to tell the difference between a 16 girl and 21 year old woman is to look at their drivers license.


In most cases you can tell the difference between a child and an adult. If in doubt then look away.


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

> I've lost count of how many creepy middle aged men have gawked at me when their wives weren't looking. It's always repulsed me and I felt embarrassed for their wives that their fat, unattractive, balding, pervert husbands were acting like such classless pigs.
> 
> But I actually also found it amusing because I realized men who looked like them could never score a beautiful 21 year old on their looks alone. Never. Unless she had daddy issues or he had a WHOLE lot of cash.
> 
> A *whole *lot. :rofl:


Is it the fact that they're older that bothers you? Or is it that they're ugly?
How about if they were young studs (with wife along-side)?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

David Darling said:


> Is it the fact that they're older that bothers you? Or is it that they're ugly?
> How about if they were young studs (with wife along-side)?


For me it would make no difference, if they do that they are creepy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

JayDee7 said:


> If you've never checked out someone of the opposite sex, you're lying.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> No, not all men do it, and its not just 'something that men do', as if they have no control over their eyes and minds. I know many men who have made that decision NOT to stare at other women and who will choose to look away. I love and respect those men, who control what they do with their eyes. Their wives feel special and respected. I know, I am one of them.


I have NEVER once caught my husband looking in the past 10 years.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

katies said:


> But you just said men just do it no matter what. So, does it have to do with disrespect or men being men?


Men are visual creatures. Just look at any guy here who talks about someone he's dating. 9 out of 10 times, the first thing he says about her is 'she's hot' or 'she's gorgeous' or 'she's a 9.' Guys learn, for the most part, to pick partners based on how good looking they are. Some rise above it and put other aspects first, but it's just part of their biology.

Now, if you're a guy's wife and you tell him that it bothers you, he then has a choice to make - please you more than he pleases himself. Depending on the guy - and the wife - he'll make his decision. 

Now, if the wife approaches this with 'you're a pig, stop doing that,' you think he's going to stop? If you instead say 'I love you and I know you love me, so it will make me feel better if you don't do that, at least where I can see it,' he is MUCH more likely to keep from looking anymore. 

And if he doesn't, and you still want to stay with him, it'll be up to YOU to show him that you deserve to be respected or else there will be consequences put in place, such as you leaving that event. Then, again, he'll have a choice: learn to respect you and stop even if he doesn't want to and isn't quite as nice a guy as the first group described, or keep doing it and lose you.

But pretending that you can make him no longer LIKE to look at beautiful women is asking him to be someone he's not.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

When I was first with my husband at 19 years old, he constantly stared at other women. Rubbernecked, as a matter of fact. That (and other things, mostly porn) made me feel lower than dirt.

He agreed to stop doing it when he was with me. He made sure to let me know what a sacrifice it was for him to do that.

Fast forward to now (30 odd years), this stuff doesn't hurt me anymore. It's more in the "disappointed and disillusioned" category.

OP, you are 45, so you can face the reality that most men are like this; and yes, he would love to have sex with these girls if he could. Almost all men would. 

I think the problem is that women are sold a bunch of schlock when they are young about ideal love and romance. This doesn't exist. Young women should be told about the true nature of men. But who's going to do the telling? Not mom or dad. Mom would have to admit that dad would love to bang his teenage daughters friends. And dad would have to admit to his daughter that he checks out her friends when they aren't looking. Parents aren't going to do that.

But telling girls the awful truth prepares them for being in relationships with men. When you don't have a lot of illusions and dreamy ideals; you don't get hurt and disappointed.

So, own the fact that he stares at other girls and women. Men don't care if a girl/woman is 13 or 30. Many men would much prefer 13. It's horrible; but there it is.

If people say to you, "God, your husband is totally checking other women out", just agree with them, and tell them there isn't anything you can do about it. Don't protect him in any way, shape or form.

Feel free to check out other men's bodies as much as you like. Within the boundaries of respect. You don't have to be just like your husband (a real pig), you just don't have to care about respecting him by keeping your eyes to yourself.

It doesn't matter how pretty you are, not really. But, yes, it probably will get worse as you get older. He seems to have a thing for very young women.

You have to emotionally detach from him to a certain extent. Yes, that means you won't feel as close to him. But, you already don't feel close to him because of this. So, take the next step. Accept what you can't change; and don't make him the center of your emotional well-being and self-esteem.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

Wow was ^^ depressing. 13 year old girls?

If I was in this position I'd say, honey, I like to look, I'm GOING to look, if you don't like it then I suggest we go our separate ways because I'm not going to lie to you in order to look. Nor am I going to not look when you're not with me. This is me, warts and all. Take it or leave it. 
How hard is that? 

We've had these discussions before. He knows I don't like it. I almost left him alone at an airport several years ago because I saw him doing it. If this is how one wants to live their life then just do it. But be honest with the person you're with.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Agreed. My H jokes now and then about a pretty girl and says "I'm gonna ask her out" or some such and I just laugh at him and say 'go ahead and try!' cos we both know (1) he would never do that and (2) he's too old and un-hot himself and it's a pipe dream.

The difference is that I'm secure enough not to get bent out of shape of something that's human nature to the point that he feels he can't be honest with me. All that happens then is that he HIDES it (lies) from you; and that's a slippery slope you don't want to go down.

I told my H when we were dating 40 years ago that if I EVER caught him with another woman, he'd flat out never see me again. Period. I'd disappear literally. A couple of years ago, some friend asked him why he's never cheated when many of his friends have and he brought up that statement I made 40 years ago! He wasn't willing to lose me so he controlled himself while his friends, who knew their wives would (and do) put up with it go wild. 

That's why I say you have to make a boundary like I did, AND share with him what your consequence will be like I did, and then you leave it to him to make HIS decision. You can't control him but you can give him a reason to want to please you.

The bonus? You show self-worth to him, which makes him respect you even more. Merely SAYING 'it makes me feel low when you look at other girls' already puts a notion in his head that you don't respect yourself, so why should he?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

katies said:


> Wow was ^^ depressing. 13 year old girls?
> 
> If I was in this position I'd say, honey, I like to look, I'm GOING to look, if you don't like it then I suggest we go our separate ways because I'm not going to lie to you in order to look. Nor am I going to not look when you're not with me. This is me, warts and all. Take it or leave it.
> How hard is that?
> ...


Agreed. And 13? Three words: The Blue Lagoon.

Try to remember that, until about 2000 years ago, maybe even just 1000 years ago, girls were marrying and having families at 13. Maybe 15. Why do you think we have a notion of an 'old maid' at 20? Cos everyone was married off by then around 1900. Biologically, ~13 is the age at which females become ready for reproduction and, until 'society' dictated what our norms were, that's exactly how human beings determined readiness for coupling. So biologically - and going back to caveman days, men are psychologically conditioned to see females around age 13 as the most beautiful form of a female, so as to keep the species going.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

katies said:


> Wow was ^^ depressing. 13 year old girls?


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

turnera said:


> So biologically - and going back to caveman days, men are psychologically conditioned to see females around age 13 as the most beautiful form of a female, so as to keep the species going.




Well, only if she is a pretty, sexy 13.

The dorky, overweight or toothpick 13 year old with braces and pimples is probably safe.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Such as it ever was.

Why do you think women obsess about looks?


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

And, to be fair, women are also programmed to want to mate with healthy, good-looking men.

Older, ugly men know this. And this is where a lot of the attempts to squelch female sexuality come into play.

Old, bald, fat fugly men bypassed nature by using money. Life was set up so that young men (the natural mates of young women), couldn't marry until they had the means of supporting a woman and any children they would have. And who controlled the means of making money and having resources. All the old coots who were in charge.

But it still doesn't change the fact that women also prefer young, gorgeous men. We have been conditioned to conceal the fact. And we don't have as much testosterone of course. But what woman would willingly bed down with an old geezer instead of a young hunk? No-one, unless she does it for the money.

Naturally, young strong men should be able to kill off old, wizened weak men. That is prevented by laws, and punishments for committing murder. But if we truly were just animals (like so many men like to claim they are), then old men wouldn't stand a chance.

Look at all the female teachers having sex with teenage boys. Women behaving badly, to be sure. They betray the trust society puts in them by entrusting their sons to the school to be educated. And they often commit adultery against their husbands. It's low down and despicable. But, still, there you have it: women not willing to repress the desire they have for sex for very young men.

I guess women are starting to throw off the old-fashioned ladylike behavior, and do what they feel like instead. I don't agree with this type of behavior for either men or women. But if men don't want to change or evolve; then why should women?


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> When I was first with my husband at 19 years old, he constantly stared at other women. Rubbernecked, as a matter of fact. That (and other things, mostly porn) made me feel lower than dirt.
> 
> He agreed to stop doing it when he was with me. He made sure to let me know what a sacrifice it was for him to do that.
> 
> ...


So teach girl to set the bar low for men so they won't be disappointed?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, do what I did. Teach them to not accept poor behavior.

My DD27 had a 2-strike rule in high school. She'd forgive a guy the first time he messed up, like falling asleep instead of picking her up for a date. Give him a second chance. But if he did it again, she would never say yes to a date with him again. Why waste the time?


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Tiggy! said:


> So teach girl to set the bar low for men so they won't be disappointed?


No, just let them know how it is. Then she goes forward into life with her eyes open.


The bar is low. In this matter, it's what guys are like. It's not a fabrication.


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> No, just let them know how it is. Then she goes forward into life with her eyes open.
> 
> 
> The bar is low. In this matter, it's what guys are like. It's not a fabrication.


Not all guys stare at other females. Humans may notice other attractive humans, but noticing a attractive person and staring (or checking them out) is not the same thing.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Tiggy! said:


> Not all guys stare at other females. Humans may notice other attractive humans, but noticing a attractive person and staring (or checking them out) is not the same thing.




Well, Tiggy, I'm glad to hear that your experience is different than mine. And I think that it's always good for the OP to get as many different viewpoints as possible.

I can only report from my own depressing experience. I would love to be wrong, you know. Just haven't seen much evidence that I am.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

I look but don't stare. I will take longer glances if I'm wearing sunglasses, though.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> When I was first with my husband at 19 years old, he constantly stared at other women. Rubbernecked, as a matter of fact. That (and other things, mostly porn) made me feel lower than dirt.
> 
> He agreed to stop doing it when he was with me. He made sure to let me know what a sacrifice it was for him to do that.
> 
> ...


You have a very low opinion of men, believe me they are not all animals who cant control what they see and do. Many married men would not want to have sex with a child or young woman they see, you are assuming they are all like your husband. Many are happy with their wives and love and respect them enough to act decently. 
I would rather remain single that be with a man like that, if a man cant treat me with respect then I am not interested.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

This is a touchy subject. Many people coming off as jealous and insecure.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> You have a very low opinion of men, believe me they are not all animals who cant control what they see and do. Many married men would not want to have sex with a child or young woman they see, you are assuming they are all like your husband. Many are happy with their wives and love and respect them enough to act decently.
> I would rather remain single that be with a man like that, if a man cant treat me with respect then I am not interested.




Once again, I'm glad you've had such a positive experience. I truly am. I wish it was like that for everyone.

But I have to confess, I really believe that I am right. I think men aren't honest a lot of the time; because they don't want to face the flak that they'd get from their wife or gf. if they told her that they got hard from watching the 14 year old girl next door sunbathing.

We can hide under the veneer of society's conventions. And I'm glad we have those conventions. I appreciate the civility and the protections it offers me as a woman.

But it is just that, a veneer. Underneath, I do think the majority of men are attracted to what is best looking, no matter what the age of the female.

And of course they don't act on these impulses. But they are still there. Men like OP's husband don't pretend otherwise. The most she could hope for is that, like my husband, he makes the effort to avoid looking when she is around.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

turnera said:


> Agreed. My H jokes now and then about a pretty girl and says "I'm gonna ask her out" or some such and I just laugh at him and say 'go ahead and try!' cos we both know (1) he would never do that and (2) he's too old and un-hot himself and it's a pipe dream.
> 
> The difference is that I'm secure enough not to get bent out of shape of something that's human nature to the point that he feels he can't be honest with me. All that happens then is that he HIDES it (lies) from you; and that's a slippery slope you don't want to go down.
> 
> ...


As I said before, for us its not about being secure or insecure, or of lack of our own self respect, its about how we act and what we do and the decisions we make. Its about how we treat others and what values we hold in life. 
My husband will even close his eyes when the ads come on tv because so many of them are of semi clad women, he did this long before he met me, its the way he is. He has very strong values and says 'they are not mine to stare at, they are someone else's wife, future wife, partner, daughter' etc. Believe me, this makes me love and adore him so much more, and also makes me want and enjoy sex with him far more.
I couldn't be bothered with a man who did even bother to control his eyes or thoughts towards other women.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Once again, I'm glad you've had such a positive experience. I truly am. I wish it was like that for everyone.
> 
> But I have to confess, I really believe that I am right. I think men aren't honest a lot of the time; because they don't want to face the flak that they'd get from their wife or gf. if they told her that they got hard from watching the 14 year old girl next door sunbathing.
> 
> ...


A lot of men are like that, but many are not. I know many who aren't. I am sad that you don't seem to.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

"I think men aren't honest a lot of the time; because they don't want to face the flak that they'd get from their wife or gf."

What a very pathetic existence. I cannot imagine being in a relationship where I had to lie all the time.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

I think this thread is gonna get away from the 'ogling' part and start arguing minutiae.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> A lot of men are like that, but many are not. I know many who aren't. I am sad that you don't seem to.


I think most people, men and women, are respectful when it comes to ogling others.

With my wife, she was amazed that I never stared, made comments and such because her entire life experience had been one of that's just what men do. That said, I do notice other women, and do appreciate the beauty in form, but I never dwell on it. My wife is far more likely to stare and make comments at and about attractive women, occasionally kind of lewd ones. I suspect that is in part because she would actually like me to behave that way, at least a little bit, so she can rationalize her drooling over other men, but I digress. The times we have been to strip clubs together, it has been at her nudging, and she is far more outwardly engaged in it than I am. I think the big draw for her is the sexual energy.

I can appreciate your husband behaving in a way that you find respectful, and I agree that many, and I dare say, most men are equally respectful in this way. I do think however that he is a bit excessive in how he will turn away if even a hint crosses the television...that is not normal for anyone, male or female.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> I think most people, men and women, are respectful when it comes to ogling others.
> 
> With my wife, she was amazed that I never stared, made comments and such because her entire life experience had been one of that's just what men do. That said, I do notice other women, and do appreciate the beauty in form, but I never dwell on it. My wife is far more likely to stare and make comments at and about attractive women, occasionally kind of lewd ones. I suspect that is in part because she would actually like me to behave that way, at least a little bit, so she can rationalize her drooling over other men, but I digress. The times we have been to strip clubs together, it has been at her nudging, and she is far more outwardly engaged in it than I am. I think the big draw for her is the sexual energy.
> 
> I can appreciate your husband behaving in a way that you find respectful, and I agree that many, and I dare say, most men are equally respectful in this way. I do think however that he is a bit excessive in how he will turn away if even a hint crosses the television...that is not normal for anyone, male or female.


That's the way he is, he has very high standards. He doesn't turn away, he closes his eyes because in nearly every ad break there are ads that contain things that he doesn't want to be seeing as a married man. The standards of what is allowed in ads here (UK), has gone down so much. He is also very careful about what he will watch generally, as I am too, that's why we rarely watch films because of the content in most of them. 
He doesn't do it just for me, he does it because he knows its not good for him to have these images in his mind. He has always done this. Thats why porn for him is a no no as well. 

I have such respect for him and love the way he is. Its not easy to go against the flow.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> A lot of men are like that, but many are not. I know many who aren't. I am sad that you don't seem to.


I think allowing yourself to get an erection when you know a girl is 14 is very creepy. I notice if girls are attractive and I'm impressed like anyone by striking people but you have to allow sex to creep into your mind to get aroused.
I have utilized discipline to not allow arousal.

Looking and lusting are not the same.

I definitely agree that many men, hopefully most, do not lust after 14 year olds.

This isn't a gender issue BTW. Women are just as lustful as men and the rate of adult women seducing boys is at least comparable with that of men doing it to girls.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I think allowing yourself to get an erection when you know a girl is 14 is very creepy. I notice if girls are attractive and I'm impressed like anyone by striking people but you have to allow sex to creep into your mind to get aroused.
> I have utilized discipline to not allow arousal.
> 
> Looking and lusting are not the same.
> ...


Yes I know women do it as well, which is why I also make sure that I dont stare or ogle other men. Mind you I have no interest in male teens in any way shape or form.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Yes, as if these young women would give a second look to a dirty old man if he wasn't very rich.


We were on vacation a few months ago and ended up at a touristy spot to do an activity with a group of other people. Our appointment was at 11, but we were waiting for the rest of the group to show up to be able to go. It was a rather expensive activity and some of the other people there in the group were much wealthier than us, just by looking at them and hearing them talk. The last couple finally came in, the woman before the man. In she walks, short shorts, crop top, hair done, nails done, a pretty young thing. We’re all instantly annoyed because she was the one holding up the group. This young, annoying, scantily clad woman who couldn’t have been older than 22. Finally her ‘man’ walks in – to pay for the expensive activity of course. Full head of grey hair, thin but not muscle tone whatsoever. Wardrobe outdated. Not the least bit attractive. But he sure pulled out a wad of cash to pay for the activity! The entire room snickered when she said “thanks baby” and gave him an exaggerated kiss. The group of friends that went with us on vacation all still laugh about this. How obvious it was that he was her Sugar Daddy and that she wasn’t really interested in his personality or who he was as a person. I felt badly for the man at first but the more I thought about it, it would take a fool to think that a beautiful 22 year old was interested in an old, balding, unattractive man – unless he had money.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

katies said:


> discrete looking = still not respectful


What about just looking? Like, with the eyes, because it is there in front of you? Ot should we just stab ourselves in the eyes?

TBH I don't really get turned on by the _person_ on the street, but if a piece of perfectly shaped ass or breast jumps out at me, I cannot help but notice it (independently from the person, if that makes sense) and for a split of a second, there is a thought 'nice ass' or whatever but generally it doesn't linger for longer than a split of a second. And it's never 'yeah, I'd like to have some of that'. It's more like seeing a picture of a holiday destination on a travel agent's window and thinking to yourself 'it would be nice to go there for my next holiday. *With my wife*'. 
Ok, no sure that was a helpful analogy because now I had to think about threesomes in Maldives for a split of a second...

I think basically, we are all people and have instincts and biological urges. But it's more important what we do about them (nothing). I just try as much as I can not to give my wife any reasons to be uncomfortable. Looking/ogling is also kind of sad and generally doesn't do much for me. Actually, the type of women who tend to dress overly provocatively (in your face) usually are compensating for something. And if I look, it is usually to find out what it is they have to hide and try to guess what horrible thing must have happened in their life to damage their self esteem for them to feel the need to dress like that...
But usually I just don't have the time or interest and can't wait to get home to get that 'perfect piece of ass'.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

I will have to admit that it's hard for me to understand visual attraction. There is no way I would find a man attractive unless his personality was, in which case I'd have to actually know him. I see guys who are ripped or what others would see as attractive and I think to myself 'High Maintenance"


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

This is ogling.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

katies said:


> I will have to admit that it's hard for me to understand *visual attraction*. There is no way I would find a man attractive unless his personality was, in which case I'd have to actually know him. I see guys who are ripped or what others would see as attractive and I think to myself 'High Maintenance"


I don't think it's 'visual attraction' though. This sounds too....meaningful. It's more like: 'oh, food. must eat', while going 'Ooh ooh eeh eeh' and beating yourself on the chest...then remembering the values and ethics and go on with the normal course of your life. all this happening on a subconscious level.

Women know how this works (and can make good use of it). Same as men, flashing the gold amex and pulling up in a ferrari, and pretending to be that 'perfect, reliable provider'. Horrible cliches, I know, but of course one has to think what kind of partner will this get one in the first place if those are the main signs to look out for and take seriously...

But for me, no way could I sustain an erection if I also wasn't attracted to personality, to put it bluntly.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Lila said:


> This is ogling.


She had ketchup all over the side of her dress. Really embarrassing if you ask me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Lila said:


> This is ogling.


You mean his wife is ogling? :nerd::wink2:
The guy somehow looks much too effeminate to be 'ogling'. I imagine those are two lesbians, having a productive conversation when one of them, started checking out the guy's effeminate neck.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

When a man, me as an example, checks out a woman who happens to be beautiful and walking by, I do enjoy the view and sometimes have a fleeting naughty thought.
It doesn't mean I would cheat on my wife with that stranger, it doesn't mean I want to talk to the stranger, it doesn't mean I do not love my wife, it doesn't mean anything. It is just looking at a good looking woman. 

I do not care if my wife were to check out a good looking guy who walked by, she's a human it's natural. I know it would mean nothing.

If we did it and the other person noticed, then it is disrespectful. Sounds like OP's husband has really gone too far. 

I turned 40 this year, I don't consider myself old by any means, but when I see an older man with a younger woman I don't feel sorry for either of them. Sure, she's with him for money, he's with her for sex. He takes her shopping and she has to have sex with an old man. It's their choice. He buys her things men in their 20s can't and she looks and sex like women in their 40s can't. It's their life, glad they're enjoying each other.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Lila said:


> This is ogling.


I've honestly *never* seen my husband do THAT. Gross. I would definitely be offended, and NOT with that guy. OGLING is creepy, disrespectful, and pathetic. It indicates selfish entitlement, lack of control, and lack of empathy.

But we both looooove people watching....especially on tropical beaches :smile2: I point out beautiful women, and sometimes handsome men, to my husband all the time. Topless or in Speedos? Even better. 
The human body IS beautiful.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

katies said:


> I will have to admit that it's hard for me to understand visual attraction. There is no way I would find a man attractive unless his personality was, in which case I'd have to actually know him. I see guys who are ripped or what others would see as attractive and I think to myself 'High Maintenance"


I am so like you. If I see a guy like that I think, yuk. Men who think a lot of themselves and know they are good looking are a total turn off for me. Arrogance is so unappealing. What attracts me is personality, character, integrity, decency, honesty, strong values and a good sense of humour. 
A man who ogles other women would have me running for the door immediately.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Don't Panic said:


> I've honestly *never* seen my husband do THAT. Gross. I would definitely be offended, and NOT with that guy. OGLING is creepy, disrespectful, and pathetic. It indicates selfish entitlement, lack of control, and lack of empathy.
> 
> But we both looooove people watching....especially on tropical beaches :smile2: I point out beautiful women, and sometimes handsome men, to my husband all the time. Topless or in Speedos? Even better.
> The human body IS beautiful.


Agreed! My husband is a people watcher by nature. He is awesome at checking people out. It is so subtle and normal. There's no "brush stroke" = where the guy starts at the feet and then slowly moves his eyes upwards then back down again. THAT is DISGUSTING! Seriously at the point, just take a ****ing picture.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Don't Panic said:


> I've honestly *never* seen my husband do THAT. Gross. I would definitely be offended, and NOT with that guy. OGLING is creepy, disrespectful, and pathetic. It indicates selfish entitlement, lack of control, and lack of empathy.
> 
> But we both looooove people watching....especially on tropical beaches :smile2: I point out beautiful women, and sometimes handsome men, to my husband all the time. Topless or in Speedos? Even better.
> The human body IS beautiful.


Speedos are gross. :surprise:

My husband once went to Turkey with his first wife and their children and her parents.The beaches where they stayed were topless which they didn't realise (this was about 25years ago) and he used to go for really long walks inland because he didn't want the temptation. This is why I love him so much.
Needless to say they didn't go there again.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Lila said:


> Seriously at the point, just take a ****ing picture.


Nah, chicks get even more upset about that.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Lila said:


> Agreed! My husband is a people watcher by nature. He is awesome at checking people out. It is so subtle and normal. There's no "brush stroke" =* where the guy starts at the feet and then slowly moves his eyes upwards then back down again.* THAT is DISGUSTING! Seriously at the point, just take a ****ing picture.


Ah yes the eye sweep that literally _feels_ like an x-ray...I prefer TSA searches of the underwire in my bra please


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

TheCuriousWife said:


> I have NEVER once caught my husband looking in the past 10 years.


Should be:



> I have never once CAUGHT my husband looking in the past 10 years.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Speedos are gross. :surprise:
> 
> My husband once went to Turkey with his first wife and their children and her parents.The beaches where they stayed were topless which they didn't realise (this was about 25years ago) and he used to go for really long walks inland because he didn't want the temptation. This is why I love him so much.
> Needless to say they didn't go there again.


I'll just say Speedos are "amusing" > 

You have a catch Diana, you two are so compatible and fortunate. :smile2: it's hard to find. 

We'd be at that beach in Turkey every day.....


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> I don't think it's 'visual attraction' though. This sounds too....meaningful. It's more like: 'oh, food. must eat', while going 'Ooh ooh eeh eeh' and beating yourself on the chest...then remembering the values and ethics and go on with the normal course of your life. all this happening on a subconscious level.
> 
> Women know how this works (and can make good use of it). Same as men, flashing the gold amex and pulling up in a ferrari, and pretending to be that 'perfect, reliable provider'. Horrible cliches, I know, but of course one has to think what kind of partner will this get one in the first place if those are the main signs to look out for and take seriously...
> 
> But for me, no way could I sustain an erection if I also wasn't attracted to personality, to put it bluntly.


Great post, including the last line. 

Sums up the way men feel (at least the men that I know).


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

> Originally Posted by David Darling
> 
> If you're not interested in your partner's point of view, how do you resolve issues? Ultimatums and threats? That seems to be a common approach in this forum.





*Deidre* said:


> That's just the thread title, the complete picture is that her husband has sexted with other women, gone to strip clubs, AND ogles women. Sounds like a guy worth fighting for. lol
> 
> You seem to think that men are so different than women, and that it's instinctive to be a jerk. It really isn't. I have a lot of good men in my life who value women...my husband, my dad, my uncles, etc. They don't need to serve up BS excuses for BS behavior.
> 
> If it were just a matter of occasionally looking at other women, but this guy sounds like a jerk, and has no respect for his wife or women. If you think that is ''instinctive,'' then you'd be wrong. It's actually a lack of good character.


And your answer to my actual question was...?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> You have a very low opinion of men, believe me they are not all animals who cant control what they see and do. Many married men would not want to have sex with a child or young woman they see, you are assuming they are all like your husband. Many are happy with their wives and love and respect them enough to act decently.
> I would rather remain single that be with a man like that, if a man cant treat me with respect then I am not interested.


Nobody here said the men want to have SEX with the young women, just that they enjoyed LOOKING at them. Big difference.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> I am so like you. If I see a guy like that I think, yuk. Men who think a lot of themselves and know they are good looking are a total turn off for me. Arrogance is so unappealing. What attracts me is personality, character, integrity, decency, honesty, strong values and a good sense of humour.
> A man who ogles other women would have me running for the door immediately.


That's why I said MEN are visual creatures. Look it up. There's tons written about it.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

I love checking out hot men, faves are very well dressed men in suits and equal first are fit cyclists. I very much enjoy looking at a toned, muscular (not huge muscles) men. I do have bad thoughts.

But I temper that when I am with my husband. For every minute of overt perving, 60 seconds of attention is taken away from your spouse. I want my spouse to know he is the man I love and desire so I give him my attention. It is simple.

It is not rocket science to understand that giving your attention to someone other than your spouse is going to make your spouse feel unloved and will impact their desire for you.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Surprisingly I’ve never caught my husband checking out another woman in person. I should say, at least overtly. He wears sunglasses a lot because his eyes are very sensitive to the sun if it’s bright. I’ve caught a side glance under them quite a few times. But at least when I’m around he doesn’t break his neck when a hot chic walks by! We walked down the street RIGHT BEHIND Jena Frumes in Vegas in May (worth the google search) and other than a quick glance at her butt he didn’t think I saw, he surprisingly didn’t have to pick his jaw off the ground. And honestly, I would’ve understood if he would’ve let out a whistle lol. She’s THAT hot.

My husband may do a lot of things wrong, but one thing he doesn’t is ogle women around me.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> I love checking out hot men, faves are very well dressed men in suits and equal first are fit cyclists. I very much enjoy looking at a toned, muscular (not huge muscles) men. I do have bad thoughts.
> 
> But I temper that when I am with my husband. For every minute of overt perving, 60 seconds of attention is taken away from your spouse. I want my spouse to know he is the man I love and desire so I give him my attention. It is simple.
> 
> It is not rocket science to understand that giving your attention to someone other than your spouse is going to make your spouse feel unloved and will impact their desire for you.


And all I want is equal time, and equal enthusiasm.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> And all I want is equal time, and equal enthusiasm.


Do you mean you want equal time/enthusiasm that your wife gives to others? Don't you aspire to have much, much more time and enthusiasm than is given to others?

My apologies if I've misunderstood.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> Do you mean you want equal time/enthusiasm that your wife gives to others? Don't you aspire to have much, much more time and enthusiasm than is given to others?
> 
> My apologies if I've misunderstood.


When it comes to this whole my wife ogling other men thing...baby steps. Yeah, I do aspire to having much more than anyone else, but equal is a good place to start.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> As I said before, for us its not about being secure or insecure, or of lack of our own self respect, its about how we act and what we do and the decisions we make. Its about how we treat others and what values we hold in life.
> My husband will even close his eyes when the ads come on tv because so many of them are of semi clad women, he did this long before he met me, its the way he is. He has very strong values and says 'they are not mine to stare at, they are someone else's wife, future wife, partner, daughter' etc. Believe me, this makes me love and adore him so much more, and also makes me want and enjoy sex with him far more.
> I couldn't be bothered with a man who did even bother to control his eyes or thoughts towards other women.


Oh, so I have no values because I can joke about the FACT that men like to look at women?

I will point out that your husband ALSO likes to look at women, he's just afraid he will 'sin' by lusting after them - as males are designed to do - so he closes his eyes to try to control his own thoughts. That doesn't make him any more 'sinless' or full of values than me or my H. It just means he tries to PRETEND he's not who he is. Probably because his church tells him that enjoying looking at women is a sin.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

katies said:


> "I think men aren't honest a lot of the time; because they don't want to face the flak that they'd get from their wife or gf."
> 
> What a very pathetic existence. I cannot imagine being in a relationship where I had to lie all the time.


It's not pathetic that such a man doesn't tell his wife the truth. It's more pathetic that his wife makes him feel he CAN'T be honest with her, lest she label him as ... well whatever it is she tells him he is for being normal. She's the one keeping the relationship from being honest because of her judgment.

http://www.mantranslated.com/understanding-men/why-men-look-at-other-women.html

https://thoughtcatalog.com/ben-neal...oks-at-another-woman-from-a-mans-perspective/


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Don't Panic said:


> I've honestly *never* seen my husband do THAT. Gross. I would definitely be offended, and NOT with that guy. OGLING is creepy, disrespectful, and pathetic. It indicates selfish entitlement, lack of control, and lack of empathy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How’s it any different? 🤷 you mean you both have to ogle for it to be ok? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

turnera said:


> Oh, so I have no values because I can joke about the FACT that men like to look at women?
> 
> I will point out that your husband ALSO likes to look at women, he's just afraid he will 'sin' by lusting after them - as males are designed to do - so he closes his eyes to try to control his own thoughts. That doesn't make him any more 'sinless' or full of values than me or my H. It just means he tries to PRETEND he's not who he is. Probably because his church tells him that enjoying looking at women is a sin.


No he isn't pretending at all, he wants to keep his ogling and sexual thoughts for his wife. 
Everyone is able to control their eyes and thoughts if they think its important, which he does and I do also. He has been doing it for 40 years so its second nature to him now. Of course we notice attractive people, but that's as far as it needs to go.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

turnera said:


> It's not pathetic that such a man doesn't tell his wife the truth. It's more pathetic that his wife makes him feel he CAN'T be honest with her, lest she label him as ... well whatever it is she tells him he is for being normal. She's the one keeping the relationship from being honest because of her judgment.
> 
> Why Do Men Look at Other Women?
> 
> https://thoughtcatalog.com/ben-neal...oks-at-another-woman-from-a-mans-perspective/


Another person doesn't have control over the other person lying. What a blameshift. He's making the choice. She's not. He's free to leave if doesn't want to do it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

turnera said:


> It's not pathetic that such a man doesn't tell his wife the truth. It's more pathetic that his wife makes him feel he CAN'T be honest with her, lest she label him as ... well whatever it is she tells him he is for being normal. She's the one keeping the relationship from being honest because of her judgment.
> 
> Why Do Men Look at Other Women?
> 
> https://thoughtcatalog.com/ben-neal...oks-at-another-woman-from-a-mans-perspective/


Ahh, so if a man acts badly its all his wife's fault.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> No he isn't pretending at all, he wants to keep his ogling and sexual thoughts for his wife.
> Everyone is able to control their eyes and thoughts if they think its important, which he does and I do also. He has been doing it for 40 years so its second nature to him now. Of course we notice attractive people, but that's as far as it needs to go.


That's exactly what I've been saying! That people look! I never said it was ok to ogle, I continued to say that everyone notices - and looks at (not ogles) - attractive people.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> Ahh, so if a man acts badly its all his wife's fault.


No, but it a man has to pretend to be something he's not because his wife drills him for looking at other women, that IS her fault. Sure, he could leave her. Or just go ahead and look. But he's the one trying to conform to what keeps him out of the doghouse. And that's on her for being unrealistic.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

katies said:


> Another person doesn't have control over the other person lying. What a blameshift. He's making the choice. She's not. He's free to leave if doesn't want to do it.


He wouldn't have to pretend if she weren't making an issue out of it. He may have decided he'll bend in this instance because she has other redeeming qualities. But the point is still that he's not being 100% honest with her so as to avoid HER actions. If she just said, 'look, I know you're a guy and you're gonna check out beautiful women, but just don't do it where I can see it and don't make a spectacle of yourself, ok?' then he would HAPPILY comply with her wishes, unless he's just a dirtbag and chooses to do more than just look, in which case she'd have a right to be upset with him.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

But she gets to decide what she'll make an issue of. If someone can't be honest to avoid actions of another maybe they shouldn't be married in the first place. 
This is the same justification ppl use to cheat. "I know she wouldn't be happy about it so I'm just not going to say anything."


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

turnera said:


> And that's on her for being unrealistic.


She gets to decide was is real in her life. He gets to decide if he wants to deal with that.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

regarding the article:

What “The Look” Means
He finds her physically attractive.
When he saw her, a chemical reaction happened in his brain. Neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin were released, giving him an involuntary surge of pleasure.
Part of him wants her, or wonders what it would be like to be with her, in a completely harmless and innocent way.


After an affair if my husband would want someone else I wouldn't be interested in staying. Maybe I would eyeroll before. But not now. If I'm not the only one then I'm out. If this is how it is that's fine, but I need to know so I can make decisions. Maybe it's unrealistic, but I still get to know so I can make decisions about my life.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

I check out women all the time. So does my wife. She will sometimes point them out to me. If she catches me in a lustful trance, she will make fun of it... but in a cute way. "Oooo... I see why you're staring, but I didn't think you liked blonds?" 

I'm never going to stop staring. I can't help it. I'm a dude. She knows this and uses it to her advantage. Her self-esteem can withstand her husband staring at the cute young thing at the mall. She knows that gal has nothing on her.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

dadstartingover said:


> I check out women all the time. So does my wife. She will sometimes point them out to me. If she catches me in a lustful trance, she will make fun of it... but in a cute way. "Oooo... I see why you're staring, but I didn't think you liked blonds?"
> 
> I'm never going to stop staring. I can't help it. I'm a dude. She knows this and uses it to her advantage. Her self-esteem can withstand her husband staring at the cute young thing at the mall. She knows that gal has nothing on her.


She is probably fine with it because you do a good job of reassuring her that she’s the most beautiful to you. MANY women who aren’t ok with it aren’t because their spouses don’t compliment them. I used to date a guy that complimented me often. He’d introduce me to his friends as “This is LosingHim, isn’t she the most beautiful thing you’ve ever seen?”. If I was wearing shorts, he’d yell out “woohoo, nice stems!” when I walked across the room. Every time I showed up for a date he’d tell me how beautiful I looked, tell me he liked my hair, etc. I was SO confident when I was dating him. He could look at another woman and tell me she was smoking hot and I’d just laugh. Because I knew he thought *I* was smoking hotter. Confidence for a woman should come from within, but having your man stroke your ego will go a LONG way with how she feels about it when you check out another woman.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

turnera said:


> That's exactly what I've been saying! That people look! I never said it was ok to ogle, I continued to say that everyone notices - and looks at (not ogles) - attractive people.


It depends on what you means by looks at. A quick glance and then looking away is different from a long look. I look away pretty quick. Yes I notice other people but If I go swimming for example, I wont take any notice of men in their swimmers. I deliberately don't look because that's the way I am. We both are. 
For example nether of us would go and sit on a beach where the women are topless or the men are hardly covering anything. We don't watch programmes with sex scenes or nudity.


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## Primrose (Mar 4, 2015)

notmyrealname4 said:


>


Do any men here actually find these little girls SEXY? If your immediate thought is anything more than 'cute kid', you may be toeing a dangerous line. 



JayDee7 said:


> This is a touchy subject. Many people coming off as jealous and insecure.


Demanding respect in your relationship = jealous & insecure? 



katies said:


> I will have to admit that it's hard for me to understand visual attraction. There is no way I would find a man attractive unless his personality was, in which case I'd have to actually know him. I see guys who are ripped or what others would see as attractive and I think to myself 'High Maintenance"


This is where everyone is different, I suppose. I understand visual attraction. It's what initially will draw me to someone. If I do not like what I see, I'm not going to go and initiate a conversation with a man (if I'm single). A great personality is a must, and it is what sustains a relationship, but there also has to be physical attraction for me.

I will agree that a terrible character will override good looks any day. So much so that their physical appearance diminishes when you _know_ they are not a good person. I just do not ever recall a time where I was out with my girl friends (and single), see a guy, and think to myself, "I bet he has an incredible personality. I'm going to go strike up a conversation." I usually have to like what I see and then will go initiate conversation. 

Of course it's different if he approaches me first.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dadstartingover said:


> I check out women all the time. So does my wife. She will sometimes point them out to me. If she catches me in a lustful trance, she will make fun of it... but in a cute way. "Oooo... I see why you're staring, but I didn't think you liked blonds?"
> 
> I'm never going to stop staring. I can't help it. I'm a dude. She knows this and uses it to her advantage. Her self-esteem can withstand her husband staring at the cute young thing at the mall. She knows that gal has nothing on her.


The thing is that we can help if of we think its important enough. To claim that because you are a man you can't stop yourself is denigrating men. 
I have good self esteem as does my husband, for us its not about that at all. Its how we each choose to act and treat each other. Its how we want to be treated. Its about what is important to us in a partner. I just couldn't sit there with my husband and stare at another man.
He hasn't got a jealous bone in his body, but I couldn't treat him that way. In fact its because of good self esteem that I wouldn't be with a man who acted that way. I would far rather be single.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I rarely see a man that I find really attractive. I view most men as “Ok” and then they can either get more or less attractive with conversation. I work with one rare guy who actually made me go “Oh wow” based on looks alone, but the more I talk to him, the less attractive he gets. But a marginally attractive man can become much more attractive if his personality is right. I’m also one of those weird women who doesn’t really find the hard body look attractive and I think things like male calendars, male revues, etc. gross.

I notice beauty in a LOT of women though. Visually I notice attractattractive women 2-3 times a day. Men, years can go by without seeing one I find attractive.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LosingHim said:


> She is probably fine with it because you do a good job of reassuring her that she’s the most beautiful to you. MANY women who aren’t ok with it aren’t because their spouses don’t compliment them. I used to date a guy that complimented me often. He’d introduce me to his friends as “This is LosingHim, isn’t she the most beautiful thing you’ve ever seen?”. If I was wearing shorts, he’d yell out “woohoo, nice stems!” when I walked across the room. Every time I showed up for a date he’d tell me how beautiful I looked, tell me he liked my hair, etc. I was SO confident when I was dating him. He could look at another woman and tell me she was smoking hot and I’d just laugh. Because I knew he thought *I* was smoking hotter. Confidence for a woman should come from within, but having your man stroke your ego will go a LONG way with how she feels about it when you check out another woman.


As we've said, this is not HIS issue but yours. He can't give you self esteem. He can pay better attention to you, sure, but if you live for another person to give you self worth, what have you done? Handed over power over YOUR life to someone who may or may not treat it well.

And let's be honest. Your H not complimenting you is the least of your issues with him. If he actually SHOWED that he cared about you, you wouldn't give a second thought to him looking at women, because you'd KNOW that you're the one he chose. But you don't have that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"New research shows that while women are drawn to male faces that look familiar, men are more likely to rate someone they have never seen before as more attractive.
It is thought the reason may be that men have evolved to maximise their reproductive success by mating with as many partners as possible.
Researchers at the University of Stirling and the University of Glasgow came up with the findings after showing men and women pictures of dozens of different faces. The more women in the study saw pictures of the same man's face, the more attracted they were to him.
But the study, published in Archives of Sexual Behaviour, found that the men who took part rated the women as less attractive when they saw them for a second time.
Researchers say the results may be partly explained by the so-called Coolidge effect – where men are aroused by the novelty of a new sexual partner more than women.
Anthony Little from Stirling University's School of Natural Sciences, said: "Men found female faces they had already seen as less attractive and less sexy, especially for short-term relationships.
"There is a tendency for males to pursue a large number of partners as they can dramatically increase their reproductive success by mating with multiple females." "
Don't blame men for looking at other women ? it's in their genes - Telegraph

"Perhaps the biggest difference between the male and female brain is that men have a sexual pursuit area that is 2.5 times larger than the one in the female brain. Not only that, but beginning in their teens, they produce 20 to 25-fold more testosterone than they did during pre-adolescence.
If testosterone were beer, a 9-year-old boy would be getting the equivalent of a cup a day. But a 15-year-old would be getting the equivalent of nearly two gallons a day. This fuels their sexual engines and makes it impossible for them to stop thinking about female body parts and sex.
And so begins the 'Man Trance'
All that testosterone drives the "Man Trance"-- that glazed-eye look a man gets when he sees breasts. As a woman who was among the ranks of the early feminists, I wish I could say that men can stop themselves from entering this trance. But the truth is, they can't. Their visual brain circuits are always on the lookout for fertile mates. Whether or not they intend to pursue a visual enticement, they have to check out the goods.
To a man, this is the most natural response in the world, so he's dismayed by how betrayed his wife or girlfriend feels when she sees him eyeing another woman. Men look at attractive women the way we look at pretty butterflies. They catch the male brain's attention for a second, but then they flit out of his mind. Five minutes later, while we're still fuming, he's deciding whether he wants ribs or chicken for dinner. He asks us, "What's wrong?" We say, "Nothing." He shrugs and turns on the TV. We smolder and fear that he'll leave us for another woman.
Not surprisingly, the different objectives that men and women have in mating games put us on opposing teams -- at least at first. The female brain is driven to seek security and reliability in a potential mate before she has sex. But a male brain is fueled to mate and mate again. Until, that is, he mates for life."
Love, sex and the male brain - CNN.com

"Most women have caught their partner's eye wandering when an attractive woman walks by. No matter how monogamous and faithful, the visually stimulated heterosexual man is “naturally programmed” to want more than one woman. Dennis Prager, speaking for the online non-accredited academic institution Prager University, claims a man’s “built-in” attraction to the female body is all due to evolution, and at the end of the day, “he wants you.”
“Even men in happy relationships will still find some women more attractive than their own girlfriend,” Prager says in the video “He Wants You.” Prager contests men are inclined to look at other women simply because they are other women. Although they are excited by other female forms, this does not mean they are dissatisfied with their own partner, however.
Although Prager’s statements can be ludicrous and at times misogynistic, his explanation does hold scientific merit. A 2013 study published in the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior found unlike women, men prefer faces they’ve never seen before when it comes to being visually stimulated. Men rated these women less attractive when they saw them for a second time. Researchers believe the reason may be that men evolved to maximize their reproductive success by mating with as many partners as possible, which explains the Coolidge effect of why men are aroused by the idea of a new sex partner than women.
"Men are programmed by nature to want variety, indeed endless variety,” Prager says. However, he assures insecure girlfriends that if their relationship with their boyfriend is solid, they have nothing to worry about. Prager suggests for women to do away with their primal fears of losing him and realize men may ogle women, but once they are out of sight, they are out of mind.

“More than anyone else in the world, he wants you. And if you don't believe me, ask him,” Prager says."
http://www.medicaldaily.com/pulse/f...naturally-programmed-stare-other-women-324438


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

well, there ya have it ladies, we just need to grin and bear our husbands lusting after another woman.


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## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

katies said:


> well, there ya have it ladies, we just need to grin and bear our husbands lusting after another woman.


Still missing the point. We're not lusting after other women, we're noticing them, and forgetting them.

Our partners can chose where they draw the line between looking and perving, between acceptable and disrespectful; and we can chose whether we cross that line (in the knowledge that there may be consequences).


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

katies said:


> well, there ya have it ladies, we just need to grin and bear our husbands lusting after another woman.










[/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG]


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

You need to read the article.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

katies said:


> well, there ya have it ladies, we just need to grin and bear our husbands lusting after another woman.


Yep, because these poor weak minded men just cant help themselves. What nonsense 
I would like to eat chocolate every day, but I don't because its not good for me. We all have self control believe it or not. :|


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

katies said:


> well, there ya have it ladies, we just need to grin and bear our husbands lusting after another woman.


Guess you didn't read the articles. They all said the same thing: Men DO fall in love just as hard as women. Men STILL can't help looking at other women. Men are BIOLOGICALLY (caveman days) more turned on by NEW faces and bodies than their spouse; but it does NOT mean they don't LOVE their wife and want only her. It's her insecurity that causes her to believe that. He WANTS his wife, but he ENJOYS looking at beautiful women. Hell, even I enjoy looking at beautiful women. 

The only men who OGLE women (i.e. be rude in front of their wives) are the ones who are emotionally stunted at their teen years and who don't understand true love and rate their lives in terms of women they wish they could score.

Bottom line: All men will look. Most men will respect and love their wives enough to tamp it down to merely looking or watching a woman walk by. The jerks will not respect their wives and will look like idiots by 'undressing' a woman in front of their wives, family or friends. THOSE guys need a woman to be strong with strong boundaries who will say "I WILL NOT TOLERATE you disrespecting me. You're free to ogle, but you'll do it as a divorcee."

That takes the control out of the situation. You state your boundaries. You explain your consequence (what YOU will do to protect YOURSELF if he hurts you). And then you enact your consequence to stay true to yourself and see where your marriage ends up. Nine times out of ten, the man will love his wife enough to realize he's been a CHILD and will learn to tone down his wandering eyes.
_
But he will never stop looking at women because it is part of who he - who MAN - is._ He will merely respect his wife enough to not cause her stress.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> Yep, because these poor weak minded men just cant help themselves. What nonsense
> I would like to eat chocolate every day, but I don't because its not good for me. We all have self control believe it or not. :|


 Ah, and there's the rub. 

This is a PSYCHOLOGICAL issue. If YOU are meeting your husband's top needs, if YOU are not lovebusting him to death (have you read HIs Needs Her Needs yet? the primer on marriages), if you're making him happy in all the important ways, he will want to please you and _he will control his appetite for looking at other women_, something that is BIOLOGICALLY driven in him, because he loves you and wants you to be happy!

On the other hand, if you approach this like a mommy - you bad boy, I'm ashamed of you, I won't love you anymore if I see you looking at another woman - he will be in a quandary: respect your needs and temper his wandering eye because he loves you and puts your happiness ahead of his need - yes, need - to look at pretty women, or else decide you're just an insecure needy woman who tries to DICTATE who he is; at which point he decides to live a double life. YOU think he's sworn off looking at other women because he's decided to pretend to be what you want, to please you, but when you're not around, guess what?

I grew up around men. I KNOW what they are like. I've spent 90% of my time the past 40 years around men. They tell the truth around me. And it's not what they tell YOU. 

And don't make this about religion. My H tells me everything about his friends and acquaintances - Baptist, Mormon, you name it - who tell their wives they're doing NOTHING while lining up hookers, strippers, and concubines. 

Go ahead and pretend your wonderful husband has no need to look at beautiful women. SCIENCE tells you otherwise.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

^^ All bow down to the almighty man who can't control himself apparently.
If science is right, why lie about it? Your posts read as if men are stuck, they have choices. Can they allow their wives one?

"
But he will never stop looking at women because it is part of who he - who MAN - is. He will merely respect his wife enough to not cause her stress."

That's respect? That's lying.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

katies said:


> ^^ All bow down to the almighty man who can't control himself apparently.
> If science is right, why lie about it?


I have already answered this - a couple of times. But you're so intent on proving your point you're no longer listening.

He lies because he WANTS his marriage. He KNOWS he can't help looking at women - because it's part of his DNA but his wife hasn't educated herself enough to understand this - but he also knows his wife will ream him a new one if he DARES to look at another woman, so he TRIES to become a man who doesn't look. 

But as I've shown you in MANY scientific articles, a man simply can't stop a biological urge. 

What is he to do? He doesn't want to hurt his wife. He doesn't want to LOSE his wife. So he pretends to her that he no longer looks.

Erego, he manipulates himself to become what SHE has created in her dream world of what a man is, and he goes along with it, and he does his best to never let her catch him admiring beauty around him, and he lives a life of partial happiness and partial fear that he will be kicked out of his home for being a MAN.

Tell me. Do you enjoy a woman who looks like a model for Estee Lauder or Victoria's Secrets?r Do you feel a tinge of remorse that you're not the beautiful 'being' that men desire and worship? 

How do you turn THAT off?

You're asking the same thing of a man.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Sometimes I think that there is a God who loves those who do not believe in him since my life has been blessed. I have a very high paying job that I only work 3 days a week from home or anywhere in the world with an internet connection. That is pretty good but my wife is bisexual and enjoys other women as much as I do. She even moved in her longtime girlfriend of 30 years and insisted that I join them when they had sex or else it felt like cheating to her. 

The best part is that my wife and I ogle girls together and then swap notes on whether we would kick them out of our bed or not. She has different tastes in women than I do. It really is great to share an interest in girls with my wife and our girlfriend.

I had 4 relationships since I was 15 and until a few years ago, I did not know or found out later in the relationship, that they are bisexual. I have never been in a relationship with a hetero woman, not once. I never looked for bi women and no one looks bi. The only thing I can think of is that most girls would be put off by my girl watching and comments. Bi girls liked girls as much as I did and therefore were not put off by my admiration of women. My wife did not come out until we were married about 7-8 years. I should have known because she pointed out the hot girls to me when we went out. So I think this is the reason why I only loved bi girls.

I know that men are genetically designed to find as many mates as possible. We are built to impregnate several women a day if we can. We are all driven to pass along our genes and anything that works well at that stays with us. Looking for mates and having kids by several women increased the odds that at least one would survive to pass along your genes to someone else. Men may not know why they like looking at other girls, the same way girls do not know what the real reason is to wear lipstick or why guys are aroused by their butts. However it is a genetic behavior. That is no excuse because we have more advanced brains than our primitive ancestors have. Men will forever look at other girls but a loving man will not be so obvious about it as it disrespects their partner. Have you told him that you find it disrespectful but understand that men are visually aroused and cannot stop that but show respect for you my not doing it when you are with him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

turnera said:


> Ah, and there's the rub.
> 
> This is a PSYCHOLOGICAL issue. If YOU are meeting your husband's top needs, if YOU are not lovebusting him to death (have you read HIs Needs Her Needs yet? the primer on marriages), if you're making him happy in all the important ways, he will want to please you and _he will control his appetite for looking at other women_, something that is BIOLOGICALLY driven in him, because he loves you and wants you to be happy!
> 
> ...


My husband is a scientist as it happens, and he has always controlled what he looks at and what he sees. He did it long long before we met, and he does it now. Its not what he tells me, its what others have said about him and what I see after 12 years of marriage. Its automatic now, if you do something for a time it becomes a habit. He has done it for 40 years. 

I also grew up around men, I have brothers, we have 3 adult sons, I worked with men, they are not all as you describe, not by a long way. I am sorry that you havent met any like that. 

To claim that all men lie and stare and ogle women is just not the truth and demeans so many good men. Men are not helpless to look away, to stop ogling, it comes down to self control and discipline. Its a temptation just like any other temptation that can be dealt with if the person chooses to and wants to enough. Sorry if you can't believe that men like him exist, they do, I know many of them. I never asked him to be this way, he was like it way before we met, but I love him for it. Its also not down to how I act, he would do it regardless. He has his own standards, and they apply no matter what his marital/relationship situation. 

BTW the many Christian guys we/he knows don't act the way you describe. I am sure a few bad ones do, but they are clearly not acting as they should. 

What a cop out to say well they just cant help it, these poor weak helpless men. Its just not true. No different from a very obese person saying they cant help eating cakes and chocolate every day. Or someone saying, well I just cant help looking at porn. Or I cant help having affairs, I have a sex addiction. We chose how we act, what we do, what we look at and what we eat. We make those choices every day.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> Sometimes I think that there is a God who loves those who do not believe in him since my life has been blessed. I have a very high paying job that I only work 3 days a week from home or anywhere in the world with an internet connection. That is pretty good but my wife is bisexual and enjoys other women as much as I do. She even moved in her longtime girlfriend of 30 years and insisted that I join them when they had sex or else it felt like cheating to her.
> 
> The best part is that my wife and I ogle girls together and then swap notes on whether we would kick them out of our bed or not. She has different tastes in women than I do. It really is great to share an interest in girls with my wife and our girlfriend.
> 
> ...


You have a very different idea from me of what being blessed is. Some of the unhappiest people in the world are the richest. They often have several marriages that never last, they cant seem to like or accept themselves as they are. They are often into drugs and drink too much. They rarely have that deep peace and contentment. They rely on their money and go to pieces if they loose it. 

Some may think that Hugh Heffner was blessed. All I saw was a basically sad sick man who had to buy friendship and attention. Who apparently couldn't even have normal sex any more, but had to masturbate to porn.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

turnera said:


> I have already answered this - a couple of times. But you're so intent on proving your point you're no longer listening.
> 
> He lies because he WANTS his marriage. He KNOWS he can't help looking at women - because it's part of his DNA but his wife hasn't educated herself enough to understand this - but he also knows his wife will ream him a new one if he DARES to look at another woman, so he TRIES to become a man who doesn't look.
> 
> ...


whatever Tunera. I just don't understand how someone would rather be a liar than married. Makes no sense to me. What about integrity?
I like being married too. But not more than I like (and must) be authentic.
How do you know I'm not as beautiful as a VS model? You really assume a lot. 
You're saying my perceived tinge of remorse is the same as what a man goes through? Pretty big stretch. And doesn't involve a lie.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Honestly, women look just as much as men. Not sure at all about the previously posted research.

Individual to individual varies but women in general look and lust just like men, they might be better at being discreet though....


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Honestly, women look just as much as men. Not sure at all about the previously posted research.
> 
> Individual to individual varies but women in general look and lust just like men, they might be better at being discreet though....


The way it is described how men can't help looking...is how I feel, too. I look first and realize second that "oops, maybe it is not appropriate to look at this time". So I've learned over the years to get out in front of my desire to look and take steps to not appear inappropriate to whoever I'm looking at or to the person I may be with at the time.

I've also learned that men I've been with don't like me looking, they feel anxious about it, and they get insecure about it...if they notice I'm doing it. Gee, just like women feel when they notice their man doing it! Doesn't seem to slow down my man's feelings about it when he realizes "oh yeah, FW is a sexual beast, she can't help looking at that hot sexy young stud, it is simply in her genetics to be on the visual hunt like that for fresh meat to fertilize her with". In fact, somehow it actually makes men feel WORSE when they understand that my looking comes from the depths of my arousal system and is literally outside of my control.

Not only that but because I'm bi, I look at women, too. A lot of men might think "oh that wouldn't bother me, that would be awesome to check out women together!" But somehow...this is never the reaction I get from men I am with. Instead, they are even more insecure when they notice me checking out women than when they notice me checking out men. Somehow, if I'm checking out a man, men I've been with at least feel they can compete on some level, but when I'm checking out women they don't know how they fit in with that and it makes them very insecure and anxious. (Because they *don't* fit in with that, it has nothing to do with them at all...which is why they hate it).

Because I am kind to my partners, I make sure I curb my looking to the point that they will not notice for the most part. But if they are going to check out people in front of me, I then just don't curb my looking. I just let them feel the anxiety and insecurity that comes from seeing who and what I look at. It usually doesn't take but a few instances of this and a few insecure conversations from them where they are expressing their anxiety over how I'm looking at people....with me then throwing in their face that they are doing the same thing. This seems to get them to understand that being polite about it is the only way both of us are going to be happy...if you are polite about it and make sure I don't see you ogling others, I will, too. If you "can't help" your head snapping sideways to ogle, then I'll just stop censoring myself too and let my head snap like it wants to.

The people I'm going to be checking out are going to make him a lot more insecure than I will be at anyone he might check out. And on top of that, men everywhere will always be checking me out and that can create anxiety for men I'm with, too. So I'm checking out men and women and men are checking me out. If a man wants to be with me and be secure, he will have to discover along with me how to make it all appropriate behavior between us. But he will for sure know and understand that I'm just "acting" appropriate, I'm not squelching my uncontrollable biological urge to look. I will never stop looking, just as he will not. But we can take steps to make sure each other doesn't feel insecure about it.

I was single on my birthday this year and 3 girlfriends and I went to Hawaii. I tasked all three of them with the following: take creeper pictures of hot Hawaiian men all over the island. "Creeper" pics meaning, taking the pic when the guy doesn't even know it is being taken, and hopefully getting lots of his revealed body in the pic. Bonus points if you can get me or one of the other girls on our trip in the shot. Also bonus pics for having the guts to go up to the guy and claim we are on a scavenger hunt and had to find a guy with a "fill in the blank" (ie: if the guy has an orange shirt on, the claim would be we had to find a guy with an orange shirt on and take a picture with him, whereas in reality the guy was chosen because he is HOT).

I made a few other parameters, such as I am only attracted to tall guys, so don't bother me with pics of short ones. I am attracted to many different ethnic types and ages, but if the guy doesn't have a smokin' hot body and face, skip those ones, too. But my biggest preference and the most points went to pics of young, buff, tall Hawaiian natives who were surfing or swimming or some other beach activity.

We had so much fun traveling all over the island and getting these pictures. Some of them ended up just hysterical! Especially the ones with me in the shot (like my friend takes a pic of some hot dude buying milk in the grocery store, and there's me behind him winking at the camera, him unaware the whole time). Also there were a few super hot dudes who were with their girlfriend or wife...and we just cut her out of the picture for the end product. A few times the wife or gf figured out what we were doing and looked at us like "hey, creeps!" Ha! We just laughed and sped off down the beach hunting for the next guy. Sometimes the guy himself figured it out and was kinda like "what the heck...?"

By the end of my trip I had dozens of incredible pictures of hot dudes in Hawaii doing beautiful Hawaii things with their beautiful bodies. The absolute top best picture was of this guy, probably about 19 years old, 6'4", looked literally like a Hawaiian Adonis...so beautiful, like he should have been a statue of the perfect specimen of masculinity....and the shot had 2 of my friends in the background and one of my friends taking the picture, making it an effort by all 3 of my friends.

I selected the top 12 of the pictures and am making a calendar for 2018 out of it for my friends as the best souvenir EVER!! :grin2:

Strange but...men I've dated or mentioned doing this to....feel a little insecure about it. Can't figure that out!! What's the big deal, I'm biologically wired to lust after hot buff dudes, duh!!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@Faithful Wife

That sounds like a seriously fun and humorous vacation!

I don't get much about the insecurity people feel, as long as devotion is solid from your mate, people watching is wonderful!

I enjoy looking at people of both sexes as does Mrs. C.

We aren't rude to people and we both know what we are doing and talk about it as well.

If my mate ever disrespected me with others, I would be angry but not insecure about being treated with little consideration.

There is bad behavior and natural inclination. The latter is hardly offensive to me.


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## iliketohike (Sep 21, 2017)

It sounds like maybe he is going through a classic middle aged crisis here. It's easy for woman who have a fraction of the testosterone men have to chalk his behavior up to him being a Neanderthal. It's like a man who complains that you are being *****y while on your period not understanding your hormones. So to be clear his behavior is not deviant even though you do not understand it.

That being said , he needs to be far more sensitive than he is being. I think the only thing that will help is a good counselor. You guys have issues beyond this I am sure of it. 

If you want to save your marriage I suggest you begin here. Nagging and threatening is not going to get you what you want. 

What you need to ask yourself is "What would I like to accomplish" and then do what you believe will accomplish this.

Nagging and complaining and threatening feels good but it is not going to work.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Originally Posted by Don't Panic View Post
I've honestly never seen my husband do THAT. Gross. I would definitely be offended, and NOT with that guy. OGLING is creepy, disrespectful, and pathetic. It indicates selfish entitlement, lack of control, and lack of empathy.



But we both looooove people watching....especially on tropical beaches I point out beautiful women, and sometimes handsome men, to my husband all the time. Topless or in Speedos? Even better. 

The human body IS beautiful.





inmyprime said:


> How’s it any different? 🤷 you mean you both have to ogle for it to be ok?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is no difference between me or my husband (or female vs male) ogling. That wasn't my point. Ogling (as defined by the pic Lila kindly provided) is pathetic and neither one of us engages in that behavior. 

The actual difference I pointed out is between "ogling" and "looking". Neither one of us ogle, together or separate bc we're not creepy mouth-breathing morons. However, both my husband and I LOOK at, notice, and appreciate human beauty and attractiveness. We do this together and apart. I mean... I assume apart? I've never asked him if he notices attractive topless women wearing Speedos when we are apart, lol, I just assume he DOES. I'm confident he doesn't OGLE bc I know he respects women and himself. Its "one of the reasons I love him". 

And I'm ok with that. I like that he's a MAN, a lot


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Shaming a man for his sexuality is akin to a domineering mom.

Recognizing and appreciating his sexuality is sexy. 

Recognizing, appreciating and using his sexuality to your advantage is smart.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

dadstartingover said:


> Shaming a man for his sexuality is akin to a domineering mom.
> 
> Recognizing and appreciating his sexuality is sexy.
> 
> Recognizing, appreciating and using his sexuality to your advantage is smart.



And helps keeps you BOTH happily married for 20+ years :grin2:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Don't Panic said:


> Originally Posted by Don't Panic View Post
> 
> I've honestly never seen my husband do THAT. Gross. I would definitely be offended, and NOT with that guy. OGLING is creepy, disrespectful, and pathetic. It indicates selfish entitlement, lack of control, and lack of empathy.
> 
> ...



My comment was in half in jest. To me, it sounds like: ‘we love eating out, but we can’t stand the pathetic mouth-breathing morons that sit next to us feasting on all that food...’.
Potahtoe, potatoes.
You look at beautiful creatures, the guys look at beautiful creatures with nice asses.
What qualifies one to become a mouth-breathing moron? Stupid face expression?
(I kind of know what you mean - but it still comes across as hypocritical, in a funny kind of way. Now I must do some googling, what ‘ogling’ means...)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

A man just needs to be honest about his sexuality. 
If he won't be then we have other issues.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

katies said:


> A man just needs to be honest about his sexuality.
> If he won't be then we have other issues.


I can agree to your point here. I have always been honest I notice and appreciate attractive women. All the women I have ever know notice and appreciate attractive men. Hell some also appreciate attractive women and we enjoyed checking them out together lol.

I would never cower or hide the fact I like attractive women and yep I do look when I notice as I have seen women alway check out men. Checking out and appreciating is not the same as ogling.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

- Us men do have much higher sex drives compared to the ladies.


- We are wired with high sex drives and are very visually stimulated.


- All ladies know this and dress very sexy, clothing, hairstyles, makeup, feet open shoes, bum and breasts popping out, etc.


- They all know this turns us men on and we will look whether single or married.


- The ladies who are in a relationship or married, telling their men you can't even look, are very controlling and might as well have their men wearing horse blinders. This is silly, controlling and shows how insecure they really are.


- I guarantee you the ladies are looking at the guys.......


- I see it this way, when you're out with your other half, and there's a hot man or lady nearby, look, no touch, no ogling and be discrete and show respect. Looking is healthy and fine, just nothing more.


- For the ladies that can't handle even that, they have issues.


- I will never stop looking at hot ladies as long as I live.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

- All ladies know this and dress very sexy, clothing, hairstyles, makeup, feet open shoes, bum and breasts popping out, etc."

What a very sweeping generalization.

I'm a lady who doesn't look at other guys.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

katies said:


> - All ladies know this and dress very sexy, clothing, hairstyles, makeup, feet open shoes, bum and breasts popping out, etc."
> 
> What a very sweeping generalization.
> 
> I'm a lady who doesn't look at other guys.




I currently work at a shop with many employed ladies. 20's to 50's. Guess what? They all dress attractive, makeup, nice clothing, shoes, some have their breasts and butts almost screaming to get out, some dress sexy but not tight clothing, all do their hair nicely, etc. I have yet to find ladies who wear no makeup, don't do their hair and wear a poncho to work.....Age doesn't matter. Ladies dress sexy because they love the attention they get and it makes them feel great. Guys are the same way.


Sorry, the majority not 100% of women are like that........one of those I guess.


If you think ladies today don't dress sexy, time to get outside, go to the beach, the malls, get out and see......


And I NEVER look at the attractive ladies either. All men and all ladies do check out the opposite sex, whether its a lot or only once in a while. Unless we live under a rock and never go out?


Guys are not as subtle as the ladies. Guys oogle......ladies look with peripheral vision. You get the idea.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> My husband is a scientist as it happens, and he has always controlled what he looks at and what he sees.


Two things. If he's a scientist and you support him, you should be willing to read the SCIENTIFIC articles I posted with an open eye. And I hope you understand that a man closing his eyes and basically plugging his ears and going nananana is NOT the norm.

I'm glad you two have a solution. But he is NOT the norm and every (non-Christian) scientific study proves it. And to be honest, you're not the norm, either. Most women except that they are human and find attractive people of the opposite sex worth looking at. The science supports this.

I'm happy for you. But please stop trying to tell the readers here that what you have is the norm. Do men try to respect their wives' wishes? Of course, most do. But that does NOT mean that they don't have the biological subconscious desire to look at beautiful women.

My guess is that, if you were to get a REAL, honest answer from your husband, you'd be shocked. But you never will because you have set the bar so high he's afraid to fail it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

katies said:


> - All ladies know this and dress very sexy, clothing, hairstyles, makeup, feet open shoes, bum and breasts popping out, etc."
> 
> What a very sweeping generalization.
> 
> I'm a lady who doesn't look at other guys.




Agreed. But are your breasts and bums popping out?  (rhetorical question). An important point for future observations 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CuddleBug said:


> If you think ladies today don't dress sexy, time to get outside, go to the beach, the malls, get out and see......



You mean, ogle? 
I think a couple of things need to happen: women should stop complaining when some guys check them out: especially the ones that provoke the looking by dressing a certain way. Because secretly (or not so secretly), they enjoy it otherwise they wouldn’t be dressing like this. (And the ones that complain that their husband is checking out other women and not them, perhaps could dress more sexy for their husbands once in a while...I declare personal interest in the latter though I still think wife is much hotter than the stuff on the streets 
On the other hand, guys should be more discreet and stop acting like ‘moronic mouth-breathing creeps’ like they have never seen a butt before (especially if they have a wife next to the moron) and keep it strictly for their spank bank, if they have to, using ‘peripheral vision’ (not heard that one before  
As long as they don’t get it out and start watering the plant pots, Weinstein-style, I don’t see what the problem is.



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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> I can agree to your point here. I have always been honest I notice and appreciate attractive women. All the women I have ever know notice and appreciate attractive men. *Hell some also appreciate attractive women and we enjoyed checking them out together lol*.
> 
> I would never cower or hide the fact I like attractive women and yep I do look when I notice as I have seen women alway check out men. Checking out and appreciating is not the same as ogling.


I giggled at this. My "girl crush" is Olivia Benson from SVU. I think she's beautiful - hubby thinks it's hilarious! Rofl


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> I currently work at a shop with many employed ladies. 20's to 50's. Guess what? They all dress attractive, makeup, nice clothing, shoes, some have their breasts and butts almost screaming to get out, some dress sexy but not tight clothing, all do their hair nicely, etc. I have yet to find ladies who wear no makeup, don't do their hair and wear a poncho to work.....Age doesn't matter. Ladies dress sexy because they love the attention they get and it makes them feel great. Guys are the same way.
> 
> 
> Sorry, the majority not 100% of women are like that........one of those I guess.
> ...


I'm a teacher. About 5% of us wear makeup. None of us dress sexy. I live in the midwest. We dress to stay warm.


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

CuddleBug said:


> I currently work at a shop with many employed ladies. 20's to 50's. Guess what? They all dress attractive, makeup, nice clothing, shoes, some have their breasts and butts almost screaming to get out, some dress sexy but not tight clothing, all do their hair nicely, etc. I have yet to find ladies who wear no makeup, don't do their hair and wear a poncho to work.....Age doesn't matter. Ladies dress sexy because they love the attention they get and it makes them feel great. Guys are the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Honestly, this is disgusting. 

I’m a white collar professional and married. I wear makeup and dress stylishly, in a way that conveys my personality and in clothes that I like. All of that is for MY OWN benefit / enjoyment. To feel comfortable, to express myself, to meet certain societal standards. I don’t want male attention. A lot of women don’t. We are not objects; our sole purpose in life is not male enjoyment or to appease the male gaze.

To hear a married man describing his coworkers as sexy is just, ugh.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

^^^this!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

dadstartingover said:


> I'm never going to stop staring. I can't help it. I'm a dude. She knows this and uses it to her advantage. Her self-esteem can withstand her husband staring at the cute young thing at the mall. She knows that gal has nothing on her.


Well, your wife might find it 'fine' that you're staring at some young attractive woman, but I'd be willing to bet that the young woman probably thinks you're a pig who was raised by wolves. Your sophomoric behavior might have been hilarious back when you were 22, but it isn't now.

I never found it flattering when some woman's pig of a husband was blatantly staring at me. I was just embarrassed for HER and felt bad that she was stuck with such an ass-hole.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

veganmermaid said:


> Honestly, this is disgusting.
> 
> I’m a white collar professional and married. I wear makeup and dress stylishly, in a way that conveys my personality and in clothes that I like. All of that is for MY OWN benefit / enjoyment. To feel comfortable, to express myself, to meet certain societal standards. I don’t want male attention. A lot of women don’t. We are not objects; our sole purpose in life is not male enjoyment or to appease the male gaze.
> 
> To hear a married man describing his coworkers as sexy is just, ugh.


Seems kind of arrogant to me for someone to assume that when someone dresses nice FOR THEIR JOB (isn't that a sign of respect for the job/employer, btw?) that it's all about getting someone's sexual attention. 
I work with a majority of women. I wear make up everyday- have done so since I was age 12 whether I was married or not and it's about looking good in PUBLIC not for some particular kind of attention). My coworkers and myself are always clean, hair done, make up on, looking presentable in nice clothes because we work in an office and that is part of our job. Seems funny to me (but then again not) that one of the guys we work with could be assuming it's all about him :scratchhead::wtf:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

katies said:


> I'm a teacher. About 5% of us wear makeup. None of us dress sexy. I live in the midwest. We dress to stay warm.


The nickname I gave to DD1's high school geometry teacher (Courtney Love) is still in use a decade later at the same high school


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I find it completely believable (and normal) that many women dress well & wear make up for their job & social status etc. 
What’s interesting for me from these conversations is that when a woman writes that she enjoys looking at sexy guys once in a while, many guys will be: ‘omg you are so amazing, it’s so greats to be in touch with your sexuality so openly, you are such a woman (?) etc etc’. When a guy says it, he’s a disgusting .
I don’t think either reactions are inappropriate, it is what it is, but it’s still amusing 
Though to be honest, neither scenarios are meant to make a guy look particularly good.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well, your wife might find it 'fine' that you're staring at some young attractive woman, but I'd be willing to bet that the young woman probably thinks you're a pig who was raised by wolves. Your sophomoric behavior might have been hilarious back when you were 22, but it isn't now.
> 
> I never found it flattering when some woman's pig of a husband was blatantly staring at me. I was just embarrassed for HER and felt bad that she was stuck with such an ass-hole.


I understand that some men behave like pigs but isn't there a difference between looking and leering?

I get looks from men and women all the time. Most folks are just looking. Some women leer and hit on me but I'm not offended. Maybe it is because I don't feel threatened and I understand the piggish aggression that can be exhibited by pathetic men.


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> I find it completely believable (and normal) that many women dress well & wear make up for their job & social status etc.
> What’s interesting for me from these conversations is that when a woman writes that she enjoys looking at sexy guys once in a while, many guys will be: ‘omg you are so amazing, it’s so greats to be in touch with your sexuality so openly, you are such a woman (?) etc etc’. When a guy says it, he’s a disgusting .
> I don’t think either reactions are inappropriate, it is what it is, but it’s still amusing
> Though to be honest, neither scenarios are meant to make a guy look particularly good.
> ...




I don’t think objectifying someone demonstrates that an individual is in touch with their sexuality. Western culture in general celebrates women exhibiting certain behaviors, i.e. checking out men, in no small part because that behavior conforms to what we’ve accepted as a masculine expression of sexuality. For further reading on this topic I highly recommend “Female Chauvinist Pigs: The Rise of Raunch Culture.” 

To be clear, I don’t think anyone should ogle at anyone else, or assume that their coworkers dressed nicely in order to seduce / please / visually entice them. That goes for both genders.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Agreed. But are your breasts and bums popping out?  (rhetorical question). An important point for future observations
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




When I go to the beaches, or our main mall or just out grocery shopping, the ladies, young and older, all dress sexy. I have yet to see ladies who don't wear makeup, don't do their hair, don't dress sexy, etc......never seen this yet.


Maybe if they stayed at home most of the time and lived under a rock.....I could see that.


Ladies love the male attention they get by dressing and looking attractive. To say, well I don't and I don't look at other men, etc. is not being honest at all.


Just because I'm married doesn't mean I'm dead. I will always look at attractive ladies, young and older, just like the ladies look at the guys. To deny this and claim I never do that is again not being honest and a very sheltered and living under a rock statement.


It's like saying I never swear either.. Guess what? I'm a God fearing man and I do swear at times, obviously not on purpose, but it happens. Same with looking at the attractive ladies.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> You mean, ogle?
> I think a couple of things need to happen: women should stop complaining when some guys check them out: especially the ones that provoke the looking by dressing a certain way. Because secretly (or not so secretly), they enjoy it otherwise they wouldn’t be dressing like this. (And the ones that complain that their husband is checking out other women and not them, perhaps could dress more sexy for their husbands once in a while...I declare personal interest in the latter though I still think wife is much hotter than the stuff on the streets
> On the other hand, guys should be more discreet and stop acting like ‘moronic mouth-breathing creeps’ like they have never seen a butt before (especially if they have a wife next to the moron) and keep it strictly for their spank bank, if they have to, using ‘peripheral vision’ (not heard that one before
> As long as they don’t get it out and start watering the plant pots, Weinstein-style, I don’t see what the problem is.
> ...




Totally agree.


When I'm out with Mrs.CuddleBug, I will honestly say I do check out the attractive ladies but its not obvious and I don't oogle them either. I show Mrs.CuddlleBug common respect. That's what I'm saying.


Ladies of all ages dress sexy because they do love the attention they get and want to show off what they got. Nothing wrong with this.


But I totally agree with the discrete looking when you're out together. That part is common sense.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

The city I'm from will be the next major city down the road and our population is growing fast.


Even Elton John owns 5 properties and has his house in the middle.


We've seen many NHL and movie stars here just grocery shopping and they all have houses here as well. Hulk Hogan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jarome Iginla, and many others I can't remember, Trevor Lindon, etc.


Our city is a major hot spot for retiring sports, entertainment and movie stars.


We have many health and fitness centers and a UFC gym here.


Again, I have yet to see ladies wear no makeup, don't do their hair, dress unsexy, etc. It's just not common here, whether the ladies are single or married, young or older, its not common here at all.


In a professional position, ladies dress professional and sexy. Their hair is done, makeup, they look hot but professional and they all love the shoes.


To say ladies today aren't like this is just not living in reality.


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> What’s interesting for me from these conversations is that when a woman writes that she enjoys looking at sexy guys once in a while, many guys will be: ‘*omg you are so amazing, it’s so greats to be in touch with your sexuality so openly, you are such a woman (?) etc etc’*. When a guy says it, he’s a disgusting .
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


lol has any woman actually experienced this kind of reaction?


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

CuddleBug said:


> To say ladies today aren't like this is just not living in reality.


Do you think your interacting with ladies of the past on this forum?


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

It depends on where you live apparently. Stop grouping us into one generalized statement. Some wear makeup and dress sexy, some do not.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CuddleBug said:


> When I go to the beaches, or our main mall or just out grocery shopping, the ladies, young and older, all dress sexy. I have yet to see ladies who don't wear makeup, don't do their hair, don't dress sexy, etc......never seen this yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This argument may come down to semantics...If you say ‘I’m not dead and I look’ it’s good to follow it up with ‘to see an attractive and pleasing to the eye person’ to avoid lynching. If you say ‘I’m not dead and I look....because women dress a certain way to make me want to touch their boobies’ it will not go down as well...
Regardless...the fact is that many women (and men) do make more of an effort to dress up when they go out, rather than in their bedrooms/house. So anyone arguing that they do it purely for ‘themselves’ perhaps comes across as too defensive. Seeking external validation for internal reasons. Is this a better characterization?
Bit of a rabbit hole this one...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

katies said:


> It depends on where you live apparently. Stop grouping us into one generalized statement. Some wear makeup and dress sexy, some do not.




I guess not from Miami then 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Tiggy! said:


> lol has any woman actually experienced this kind of reaction?



By default, the answer will be ‘yes’ because many guys are mouth-breathing morons I thought? 🤷🏼*♂
If by any chance it’s a ‘no’, then we might be in the clear...(phew)
Can’t have it both ways!

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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Reading through this thread, it reminds me of Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's famous quote "I know it when I see it" when asked to define what constitutes obscenity. Like Stewart, I can't define it, but I pretty sure I know the difference between a casual appreciative glance and lechery. I am guessing the OP knows her H well enough to know the difference too.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

It seems a few ladies here on TAM, don't wear sexy clothes, no makeup or do their hair. They are clearly not the vast majority of women and never will be.


I am referring to the numerous ladies I see every day, month, year, etc. in our large city.


Fact. Women dress sexy and know what they're doing. They love the attention they get and they know it.


Fact. Age doesn't matter. Teens, 20's, 30's, 40's, 50s, etc.


The only ladies I know that don't do this anymore are seniors, recently retired, etc. But even then, I still see ladies in their 60's dressing sexy, latest hairstyles, makeup and going to the gym.


If the majority of ladies were also like the few posters here on TAM, I would see this every day, month, year, etc. But that's not the case at all.


Women dress attractive because it also gives them a professional edge over the guys. I see that as well.


At the shop I work at, quite a few ladies dress with very tight clothing and guess what, guys are always talking, helping and even flirting with them and they know and love it.


The ladies in accounting, HR, shipping, secretarial ,etc. all dress hot, 20's to their 50's.


We just hired a new shipper in her 30's and guess what, she also has the latest hot hairstyle, makeup and wears tight clothing.


But you know,, ladies NEVER dress sexy, no makeup, no latest hairstyles......suuuuuuuuuure.:wink2:


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> By default, the answer will be ‘yes’ because many guys are mouth-breathing morons I thought? 🤷🏼*♂
> If by any chance it’s a ‘no’, then we might be in the clear...(phew)
> Can’t have it both ways!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:scratchhead:
What?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Tiggy! said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> What?




Exactly 

No, you asked if there are actually any women out there who experienced this reaction (being complimented by guys, for admitting to check out guys on a regular basis).
I wrote that there has to be, otherwise we would not have been labelled mouth-breathing morons for nothing, higher up in the thread. A moron will compliment a woman on anything, no matter how stupid. Otherwise he’s an oxymoron.
Never mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Exactly
> 
> *No, you asked if there are actually any women out there who experienced this reaction (being complimented by guys, for admitting to check out guys on a regular basis).
> *I wrote that there has to be, otherwise we would not have been labelled mouth-breathing morons for nothing, higher up in the thread. A moron will compliment a woman on anything, no matter how stupid. Otherwise he’s an oxymoron.
> ...


You said many man would praise women for looking at a sexy guy (but men are seen as disguising), I was asking other women if they have actually had this experience (because I haven't).
I'm completely confused what you're now talking about.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

CuddleBug said:


> I currently work at a shop with many employed ladies. 20's to 50's. Guess what? They all dress attractive, makeup, nice clothing, shoes, some have their breasts and butts almost screaming to get out, some dress sexy but not tight clothing, all do their hair nicely, etc. I have yet to find ladies who wear no makeup, don't do their hair and wear a poncho to work.....Age doesn't matter. Ladies dress sexy because they love the attention they get and it makes them feel great. Guys are the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Look, this is such crap. I’m a nurse, worked in several hospitals in CA, even one in Orange County in the LA area. Go to a telemetry floor or medical/surgical floor or any critical care unit anywhere in this country and tell me that all of the staff you see there fit into your ridiculous generalizations. 

Grow up.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

CuddleBug said:


> It seems a few ladies here on TAM, don't wear sexy clothes, no makeup or do their hair. They are clearly not the vast majority of women and never will be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh well, I guess if I want a professional edge I better go buy the sexiest scrubs I can find, lather on makeup with a trowel, make sure I have the hot new hairstyle (really, who cares if having my hair down ends up dragging it through feces, vomit, infected fluid draining from a wound, etc.) and wear 6 inch heels otherwise my career will never take off!! Who cares whether or not I have a degree and specialized training in critical care — dressing like I’m heading to a club to party all night is far more effective in demonstrating my advanced professional skills.

I don’t know where you have lived but in my experience the medical professionals I know look nothing like Jessica Rabbit


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> What’s interesting for me from these conversations is that when a woman writes that she enjoys looking at sexy guys once in a while, many guys will be: ‘omg you are so amazing, it’s so greats to be in touch with your sexuality so openly, you are such a woman (?) etc etc’. When a guy says it, he’s a disgusting .
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Big difference between looking and ogling though...if women were ogling men in front of their SO's that is just as disrespectful as the reverse.




CuddleBug said:


> Fact. Age doesn't matter. Teens, 20's, 30's, 40's, 50s, etc.


Yes it does. I'm sorry, but age does matter - adult men ogling teenage girls is not on. No way. Just as it's not on if I were to be ogling High School boys.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

Tiggy! said:


> You said many man would praise women for looking at a sexy guy (but men are seen as disguising), I was asking other women if they have actually had this experience (because I haven't).
> I'm completely confused what you're now talking about.


I'm getting the impression that he's pissed off about something other than what is being discussed in this thread. 

Just a hunch...

And yeah, if I see some ******* my age ogling my teenage daughters, I will poke him in his eye. Bottom line. Porn is free all over the net for whatever desire or fetish you may have. Do your ogling then

Learn how to frigging act out in public, FFS.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

VibrantWings said:


> I'm getting the impression that he's pissed off about something other than what is being discussed in this thread.
> 
> Just a hunch...
> 
> ...




Pissed off? Hardly. Just like to point out an occasional double standard. Happens here on these boards and in real world all the time!
In any case, how can anyone pretend to know what goes on in anyone’s head when they look at you, your daughter, your grandmother or your dog? Nobody knows. So whether they are ‘ogling’ or ‘just looking’ is a moot point. It’s very rare that you catch a moron ‘in the act’, like on the picture.

What ‘should be’ and what ‘is’ are two different things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Tiggy! said:


> You said many man would praise women for looking at a sexy guy (but men are seen as disguising), I was asking other women if they have actually had this experience (because I haven't).
> I'm completely confused what you're now talking about.


You can easily tell this by how many likes/votes a comment gets (most of the votes are by guys!) when a woman admits looking/checking out 'cute' guys. I think it's very straightforward what I meant? Perhaps it has not been your personal experiences but men tend to love it and encourage it more often than not (with compliments).

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-girls-check-guys-out-that-often

Of curse there will be someone who will say 'this has not been my experience'. Again, I am talking* averages*. And there *is* a double standard, whether anyone likes it or not.

I am not even sure why I am arguing this point since I would be the one in a minority because I found it often off putting if a woman was 'checking me out' or 'came onto me' too strongly, in an obvious way. Most of my guy friends grew big heads for weeks afterwards after being hit on/ogled at. Perhaps I was born with the wrong sex but I always preferred doing the 'hunting' myself. If I was 'hunted', it only confused me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> I don’t know where you have lived but in my experience the medical professionals I know look nothing like Jessica Rabbit




If they let their hair down, they might 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

veganmermaid said:


> Honestly, this is disgusting.
> 
> I’m a white collar professional and married. I wear makeup and dress stylishly, in a way that conveys my personality and in clothes that I like. All of that is for MY OWN benefit / enjoyment. To feel comfortable, to express myself, to meet certain societal standards. I don’t want male attention. A lot of women don’t. We are not objects; our sole purpose in life is not male enjoyment or to appease the male gaze.
> 
> To hear a married man describing his coworkers as sexy is just, ugh.


Well, he does work in Hollywood, so...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> It seems a few ladies here on TAM, don't wear sexy clothes, no makeup or do their hair. They are clearly not the vast majority of women and never will be. I am referring to the numerous ladies I see every day, month, year, etc. in our large city. Fact. Women dress sexy and know what they're doing. They love the attention they get and they know it.


My current work environment, in Houston, is a perfect microcosm of all this. This department has two new leaders. One, the one with a 'reputation,' hired two gorgeous young things (we call them Thing 1 and Thing 2 because they're never separated). You could find them on the cover of Vogue. Stick thin, perfect makeup, always high heels, unbelievable to look at. However, this same man hired ME, about 60, overweight, resale shop clothes, little makeup (though, granted, I had on a new suit and makeup when he interviewed me; but I was still nothing to look at). 

Then the other new guy, under him, has brought in a whole troop of hand-picked people. But he's newly married, with a baby, wants to settle down. His troop is 75% male, young go-getters, always in impeccable suits and ties, people he's mentored in the past from his previous jobs; he just brought them with him. But he, too, even though he's not looking to cheat, has hired several hot young things to scatter around the company. 

I am the anomaly, of all the people hired this year to revamp the department. All the women wear high heels and makeup and are skinny and pretty. All the men are out of a magazine. And then there's me. 

Guess who's gotten in trouble in almost every situation where there's been a problem? 

And just look at Fox News, Weinstein, etc. This crap is alive and well, folks. Maybe you're in an environment where you don't run into it. But it's still there.

And btw, I work at a hospital.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

frusdil said:


> Big difference between looking and ogling though...if women were ogling men in front of their SO's that is just as disrespectful as the reverse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


High School boys in uniform?












But seriously, there's a difference between thinking someone is pretty and staring at them as if you were going to eat them.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> The way it is described how men can't help looking...is how I feel, too. I look first and realize second that "oops, maybe it is not appropriate to look at this time". So I've learned over the years to get out in front of my desire to look and take steps to not appear inappropriate to whoever I'm looking at or to the person I may be with at the time.
> 
> I've also learned that men I've been with don't like me looking, they feel anxious about it, and they get insecure about it...if they notice I'm doing it. Gee, just like women feel when they notice their man doing it! Doesn't seem to slow down my man's feelings about it when he realizes "oh yeah, FW is a sexual beast, she can't help looking at that hot sexy young stud, it is simply in her genetics to be on the visual hunt like that for fresh meat to fertilize her with". In fact, somehow it actually makes men feel WORSE when they understand that my looking comes from the depths of my arousal system and is literally outside of my control.
> 
> Not only that but because I'm bi, I look at women, too. A lot of men might think "oh that wouldn't bother me, that would be awesome to check out women together!" But somehow...this is never the reaction I get from men I am with. Instead, they are even more insecure when they notice me checking out women than when they notice me checking out men. Somehow, if I'm checking out a man, men I've been with at least feel they can compete on some level, but when I'm checking out women they don't know how they fit in with that and it makes them very insecure and anxious. (Because they *don't* fit in with that, it has nothing to do with them at all...which is why they hate it).


How strange that the men you go out with seem so to be so insecure and anxious from your descriptions...
If I caught my wife checking out another guy's body, I would actually find it really hot (I always thought I was weird that way until I read that I am not the only one who is not that bothered by it). I like to see that she has an 'independent' sexuality of her own and I don't always need to be the one 'responsible to drive' it (the trust obviously needs to be there that in spite of it, the relationship will not be betrayed - but I really like seeing her getting aroused, not just by me but by things around her. I love that she is a human). I actually tend to point out well-built men to her sometimes and see if I notice any 'twinkle' in her eyes.

I think I can go one step further: she once had an 'incident': we were in a well-known crowded bar at a music festival once (with a few celebrities, mainly B-list) and my wife left me for a few seconds to get a drink from the other side of the building. When she came back, she looked shocked. When we were leaving the place, I asked her what happened back there and she said that when someone tried to pass behind her, she felt a hand on her backside, when she looked, it was somebody relatively famous. Stupidly, my first reaction was: "was it hot?" She was really upset with me that I said it and later I did realise that my reaction was not really appropriate (I had a couple of drinks myself). At the time, I thought that she was a big girl and in a crowded place like that, she would not let take anyone any advantage of her and handle herself. If I was with her, I would have come up to the guy and asked him "dude, what's wrong with you, your wife and kids are right there". (I don't think many celebrities give a crap but that's another subject).
But I was surprised at my initial reaction myself to be honest. Nowadays, I am glad we can laugh about it (it's been quite a few years since).




Faithful Wife said:


> I was single on my birthday this year and 3 girlfriends and I went to Hawaii. I tasked all three of them with the following: take creeper pictures of hot Hawaiian men all over the island. "Creeper" pics meaning, taking the pic when the guy doesn't even know it is being taken, and hopefully getting lots of his revealed body in the pic. Bonus points if you can get me or one of the other girls on our trip in the shot. Also bonus pics for having the guts to go up to the guy and claim we are on a scavenger hunt and had to find a guy with a "fill in the blank" (ie: if the guy has an orange shirt on, the claim would be we had to find a guy with an orange shirt on and take a picture with him, whereas in reality the guy was chosen because he is HOT).
> 
> I made a few other parameters, such as I am only attracted to tall guys, so don't bother me with pics of short ones. I am attracted to many different ethnic types and ages, but if the guy doesn't have a smokin' hot body and face, skip those ones, too. But my biggest preference and the most points went to pics of young, buff, tall Hawaiian natives who were surfing or swimming or some other beach activity.
> 
> ...


Be careful with this (privacy & harrassment laws)


Faithful Wife said:


> The way it is described how men can't help looking...is how I feel, too. I look first and realize second that "oops, maybe it is not appropriate to look at this time". So I've learned over the years to get out in front of my desire to look and take steps to not appear inappropriate to whoever I'm looking at or to the person I may be with at the time.
> 
> I've also learned that men I've been with don't like me looking, they feel anxious about it, and they get insecure about it...if they notice I'm doing it. Gee, just like women feel when they notice their man doing it! Doesn't seem to slow down my man's feelings about it when he realizes "oh yeah, FW is a sexual beast, she can't help looking at that hot sexy young stud, it is simply in her genetics to be on the visual hunt like that for fresh meat to fertilize her with". In fact, somehow it actually makes men feel WORSE when they understand that my looking comes from the depths of my arousal system and is literally outside of my control.
> 
> Not only that but because I'm bi, I look at women, too. A lot of men might think "oh that wouldn't bother me, that would be awesome to check out women together!" But somehow...this is never the reaction I get from men I am with. Instead, they are even more insecure when they notice me checking out women than when they notice me checking out men. Somehow, if I'm checking out a man, men I've been with at least feel they can compete on some level, but when I'm checking out women they don't know how they fit in with that and it makes them very insecure and anxious. (Because they *don't* fit in with that, it has nothing to do with them at all...which is why they hate it).


How strange that the men you go out with seem so to be so insecure and anxious from your descriptions...
If I caught my wife checking out another guy's body, I would actually find it really hot (I always thought I was weird that way until I read that I am not the only one who is not that bothered by it). I like to see that she has an 'independent' sexuality of her own and I don't always need to be the one 'responsible to drive' it (the trust obviously needs to be there that in spite of it, the relationship will not be betrayed - but I really like seeing her getting aroused, not just by me but by things around her. I love that she is a human). I actually tend to point out well-built men to her sometimes and see if I notice any 'twinkle' in her eyes.

I think I can go one step further: she once had an 'incident': we were in a well-known crowded bar at a music festival once (with a few celebrities, mainly B-list) and my wife left me for a few seconds to get a drink from the other side of the building. When she came back, she looked shocked. When we were leaving the place, I asked her what happened back there and she said that when someone tried to pass behind her, she felt a hand on her backside, when she looked, it was somebody relatively famous. Stupidly, my first reaction was: "was it hot?" She was really upset with me that I said it and later I did realise that my reaction was not really appropriate (I had a couple of drinks myself). At the time, I thought that she was a big girl and in a crowded place like that, she would not let take anyone any advantage of her and handle herself. If I was with her, I would have come up to the guy and asked him "dude, what's wrong with you, your wife and kids are right there". (I don't think many celebrities give a crap but that's another subject).
But I was surprised at my initial reaction myself to be honest. Nowadays, I am glad we can laugh about it (it's been quite a few years since).




Faithful Wife said:


> I was single on my birthday this year and 3 girlfriends and I went to Hawaii. I tasked all three of them with the following: take creeper pictures of hot Hawaiian men all over the island. "Creeper" pics meaning, taking the pic when the guy doesn't even know it is being taken, and hopefully getting lots of his revealed body in the pic. Bonus points if you can get me or one of the other girls on our trip in the shot. Also bonus pics for having the guts to go up to the guy and claim we are on a scavenger hunt and had to find a guy with a "fill in the blank" (ie: if the guy has an orange shirt on, the claim would be we had to find a guy with an orange shirt on and take a picture with him, whereas in reality the guy was chosen because he is HOT).
> 
> I made a few other parameters, such as I am only attracted to tall guys, so don't bother me with pics of short ones. I am attracted to many different ethnic types and ages, but if the guy doesn't have a smokin' hot body and face, skip those ones, too. But my biggest preference and the most points went to pics of young, buff, tall Hawaiian natives who were surfing or swimming or some other beach activity.
> 
> ...


Be careful with this (privacy & harassment laws): British men admit to secretly snapping photos of women at the beach | Daily Mail Online

Why you shouldn't secretly take a stranger's photo and post it online | Metro News

Especially if they are half nude and especially if you plan to publish it in any shape or form (calendar).

Funny, if a guy did something like this, he would be considered a total creep


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> I think I can go one step further: she once had an 'incident': we were in a well-known crowded bar at a music festival once (with a few celebrities, mainly B-list) and my wife left me for a few seconds to get a drink from the other side of the building. When she came back, she looked shocked. When we were leaving the place, I asked her what happened back there and she said that when someone tried to pass behind her, she felt a hand on her backside, when she looked, it was somebody relatively famous. Stupidly, my first reaction was: "was it hot?" She was really upset with me that I said it and later I did realise that my reaction was not really appropriate (I had a couple of drinks myself). At the time, I thought that she was a big girl and in a crowded place like that, she would not let take anyone any advantage of her and handle herself. If I was with her, I would have come up to the guy and asked him "dude, what's wrong with you, your wife and kids are right there". (I don't think many celebrities give a crap but that's another subject).
> But I was surprised at my initial reaction myself to be honest. Nowadays, I am glad we can laugh about it (it's been quite a few years since).


Come to think of it, we could have sued him for a lot of money for sexual harassment since there were witnesses apparently. I think it was before everyone was suing anyone for this kind of stuff.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> I find it completely believable (and normal) that many women dress well & wear make up for their job & social status etc.
> What’s interesting for me from these conversations is that when a woman writes that she enjoys looking at sexy guys once in a while, many guys will be: ‘omg you are so amazing, it’s so greats to be in touch with your sexuality so openly, you are such a woman (?) etc etc’. When a guy says it, he’s a disgusting .
> I don’t think either reactions are inappropriate, it is what it is, but it’s still amusing
> Though to be honest, neither scenarios are meant to make a guy look particularly good.
> ...


Yeah but we are not comparing like with like here. We all know men are visual creatures, women are to a far lesser extent, hence the difference . Men ogle and have impure thoughts, women not so much.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

aine said:


> Yeah but we are not comparing like with like here. We all know men are visual creatures, women are to a far lesser extent, hence the difference . Men ogle and have impure thoughts, women not so much.


Well that's clearly not the case (if you read back, it's quite clear that *both* sexes look and have 'impure thoughts' and some (mainly women) seem to be proud of them and justify them with being 'sexually free').

But, if we are talking 'stereo-types', I will play along. Which do you find more 'impure'?

1. Man looking at attractive woman: 'nice tits/great shape ass. Spank bank material for later'. Keep walking. Because if he stopped and smiled at her, what are the chances she will smile back?

2. Woman looking at attractive guy: 'what a stud! I wonder if he would be a better provider than my husband'. If she smiled at him, what are the chances he would smile back?

Which of the two situations do you think would be more 'impure' or threatening to a relationship?
(My answer is neither, if the moral standards and understanding of boundaries of either people exist. If moral standards are low, situation 2. is much more likely to result in cheating. Would you not agree?)

Neither sexes have any reason to feel that they have superior moral ground for whatever reason - that's my point.


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## KaggyBear (Jan 16, 2017)

redpoppies34 said:


> I've been through a lot this year with H about him going to strip clubs, sexting etc. and basically being a pig when talking on text with friends. Kinda like they try to outdo each other seeing hot women or something. I basically told him all that stops if we are to stay married. I always felt like he would check other women out when we were in public, it used to be a quick look but past five years maybe more of a stare. Well we have made tons of progress i.e. him not ever going to strip clubs again, deleting old text strings, any nude photos he had and basically a recommitment to our marriage.
> 
> However, I still get the creepy feel he is looking sometimes. For example we visited my college son's school and in a bar with my son I see him checking out this girl in front of the bar. And I catch him and am like why are you staring and he says "oh , she just has nice mannerisms, maybe she could be for our son. Well he has a long time gf so not appropriate, and he just kept watching her and it PISSED ME OFF> esp. given our past. Its creepy , they are 18. They I see him do it like 5 more times in a bar with kids dancing. Like looks them up and down. I do not ever do that.
> 
> ...


yuck.


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## KaggyBear (Jan 16, 2017)

tell him to stop going to strip clubs, he's gonna come home with warts or herpes and give it to you!


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## KaggyBear (Jan 16, 2017)

find out what strip club he goes to and look it up, see if you can find reviews about the club and if the customers use any secret codes for prostitution


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Find out which clubs he goes to and get a job there.

Be a nice surprise?😈


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## redpoppies34 (Dec 14, 2016)

haha thanks for your message! I have had that same fantasy too... where I become a stripper in a club and all the sudden I'm on the dance floor guys lusting and he can figure out how it feels. Show him up. LOL. He promised me he'd never go. But I should have gone to a male strip club back when I first found out. I've never done that.


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## redpoppies34 (Dec 14, 2016)

thx. well I have pretty much investigated him from here to sunday and I am pretty sure he never did anything ike that. I just think he was enjoying the lap dances and whatever touching the stripper ho allowed. Then he texted them for nude pics. All of it disgusting and unforgivable... I'm 8 monthes out and I still can get a fit of tears/rage going some nights after a few beers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Think of what a 12 year old boy would fantasize about. That's the 'mental age' your husband was stunted at. He will never age past that.


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