# anyone have issues with vaginismus or other penetration issues?



## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm of average length and probably a bit below average girth. We try lube but it doesn't help and she doesn't like it. She shuts down if I try to use force on her, so i take it slow.

Every time my wife and I decide to have sex, even if she is in the mood, I have to fight with her to open up. She starts by locking her thighs together. This forces me every time into the missionary position. I can spend 10 - 15 minutes trying to warm her up by kissing her, rubbing her body, massaging her breasts. With her legs together, I eventually try to move one of her thighs to the side with my hand. but she resists. I usually put a knee between both thighs and slowly separate them. 

Considering I put this much effort into just getting her to open up her legs, she won't allow me to use any of my digits to penetrate her either. She doesn't mind me stimulating her clitoris though. rarely will she allow me to please her orally.

Once I can find position, if I try to penetrate, she locks her legs again on me, or she will push me back with her hands. She usually takes control by this time and guides me in with one hand while pushing me back with the other. 

Trust me when I say that I go slow, sometimes she tells me I was going too slow. Once I am in, I can feel her muscles tightly trying to push me out. As time goes on, she gets into it, and the muscles usually give in and she becomes fully dilated. 

The last time we had sex, I came. I laid on top of her and she forcefully started grasping my back, going down to my hips. I am ticklish at the waste side, so I would try to grab her hands and bring them back up, but she was fighting me. Telling me not to pull my penis out of her. Seeing that I was ticklish she continued to try to grab me, I kept trying to stop her, at one point I grabbed her hands, and she forcefully released herself and went back to making me squirm. I couldn't take it anymore and jumped off her and then she slapped me. She apologized, it didn't hurt physically, but more emotionally.

The slap really bothered me. I really don't know how to take all of this. 

Any suggestions?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Have you tried talking to her about this? 

Have you asked her what she thinks sex is supposed to be like? 

Is she actually in some kind of pain during intercourse?

Has she been raped in the past, or suffered some sort of sexual abuse?

Why does she lock her legs together first?

I don't know what to suggest other than talking with her and finding out where her ideas about sex come from. That doesn't sound like someone who wants to have sex.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

norajane said:


> Have you tried talking to her about this?
> 
> Have you asked her what she thinks sex is supposed to be like?
> 
> ...


:iagree:

There's something emotional/psychological going on with your wife that is far beyond the capabilities of this board to diagnose or fix. You're going to have to have a calm conversation with her about sex. Pick a time when both of you are in a decent mood, not too tired, and not immediately before or after (and certainly not during) a sexual episode. The goal here is to be non-threatening and keep a positive attitude. Try to find out how she feels about sex in general, you in particular, and if there is anything that might help the two of you connect sexually.

By the way, what you describe doesn't sound like vaginismus. It sounds, rather, like your wife is actively resisting sex with you. Your comment that she shuts down if you try to use force on her is also troubling. Was this a really poor word choice, or are you actually trying to force sex with your wife?


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Rowan said:


> : Your comment that she shuts down if you try to use force on her is also troubling. Was this a really poor word choice, or are you actually trying to force sex with your wife?


Soory, Poor choice of words. I didn't mean forcing her, like she is telling me no and I am ignoring her. But more like rushing the act.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

norajane said:


> Have you tried talking to her about this?
> 
> Have you asked her what she thinks sex is supposed to be like?
> 
> ...





I have not asked her what she thinks sex is supposed to be like, never thought to. I did ask her once why it is so hard for her to reach out to me for sex and she just started crying.

She sometimes is in pain after intercourse.

Yes, she was sexually abused when she was young.

I don't know why she locks her legs. But she won't ever freely open her legs. She keeps them closed during the beginning of intimacy.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Wow that all sound horrible. No way could I stay hard having to fight like that.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Rowan said:


> :There's something emotional/psychological going on with your wife that is far beyond the capabilities of this board to diagnose or fix. You're going to have to have a calm conversation with her about sex. Pick a time when both of you are in a decent mood, not too tired, and not immediately before or after (and certainly not during) a sexual episode. The goal here is to be non-threatening and keep a positive attitude. Try to find out how she feels about sex in general, you in particular, and if there is anything that might help the two of you connect sexually.


She had few partners besides me. I want to ask her if she tightens up with me only or has she always tightened up. But I don't know how to bring that up without being threatening or confrontational. I'm really beginning to think I am the problem. She has always been this way as far as I can recall, but our marriage is strained financially and emotionally at the time.

She once told me that a friend of hers had a sick boyfriend that wanted to try vaginal stretching, I instantly got nervous, not knowing where this was coming from, I said I don't recommend it for her. She closed up and wouldn't talk about it after seeing me turn red.

She later told me that a previous partner of her brought up the vaginal stretching to her. Later on I started trying to do research and found it to be a form of exercise used in some cases of sexual dysfunction. That's why I stated vaginismus. I did bring up the tightness to her and we had a long conversation. She at one point said she would see a doctor, then later the same day called me and said no, that I need to accept her for how she is.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wow that all sound horrible. No way could I stay hard having to fight like that.


That troubles me, I feel in a few years, I won't have the energy to keep at it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> She had few partners besides me. I want to ask her if she tightens up with me only or has she always tightened up. But I don't know how to bring that up without being threatening or confrontational. I'm really beginning to think I am the problem. She has always been this way as far as I can recall, but our marriage is strained financially and emotionally at the time.
> 
> She once told me that a friend of hers had a sick boyfriend that wanted to try vaginal stretching, I instantly got nervous, not knowing where this was coming from, I said I don't recommend it for her. She closed up and wouldn't talk about it after seeing me turn red.
> 
> She later told me that a previous partner of her brought up the vaginal stretching to her. Later on I started trying to do research and found it to be a form of exercise used in some cases of sexual dysfunction. That's why I stated vaginismus. I did bring up the tightness to her and we had a long conversation. She at one point said she would see a doctor, then later the same day called me and said no, that I need to accept her for how she is.


Vaginismus is a real condition, where the vaginal walls and pelvic floor will contract INVOLUTARILY during penetration, and causing the penetration and sex to be extremely painful.

Vaginismus is triggered by rape, tramatic experiences behind sex, and also just bad sex experiences and fear.

She can get over it. I would be patient.

10 Common Myths About Vaginismus - Vaginismus.com

How long does treatment take? - Vaginismus.com

Vaginismus FAQ — Mount Sinai Hospital


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What is vaginismus?


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> What is vaginismus?


See treyvion's reply before yours for an answer. Though I am not qualified to say this is my wife's condition. We will be seeking help. I just wanted to see if other people out there had similar experiences and see if there is hope. Feeling painfully hopeless at the moment.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> What is vaginismus?


Read my links.

It's an INVOLUNTARILY contration of the vaginal muscles and pelvic floor which results in extremely painful to impossible intercourse. The pain is great enough where they just cannot have sex.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Hang on, I seem to remember during the summer you trying to break a dry spell with her and afterwards her playing a lot of head games with you - flirting with a coworker and such. 

Honestly it sounds like she has sexual issues in general and it might have nothing to do with her vagina contracting.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> I'm of average length and probably a bit below average girth. We try lube but it doesn't help and she doesn't like it. She shuts down if I try to use force on her, so i take it slow.
> 
> Every time my wife and I decide to have sex, even if she is in the mood, I have to fight with her to open up. She starts by locking her thighs together. This forces me every time into the missionary position. I can spend 10 - 15 minutes trying to warm her up by kissing her, rubbing her body, massaging her breasts. With her legs together, I eventually try to move one of her thighs to the side with my hand. but she resists. I usually put a knee between both thighs and slowly separate them.


I'd be careful about forcing them thighs open. The thing is, a couple may have an agressive sexual ritual like this and once your inside she's all the way into it. The danger is, if she gets angry with you, or you are getting divorced - one of her friends can convince her that you were raping her. 

You don't even want the accusation of rape, many peoples lives have been completely destroyed, even if they weren't proven guilty.



SongsAboutJane said:


> Considering I put this much effort into just getting her to open up her legs, she won't allow me to use any of my digits to penetrate her either. She doesn't mind me stimulating her clitoris though. rarely will she allow me to please her orally.
> 
> Once I can find position, if I try to penetrate, she locks her legs again on me, or she will push me back with her hands. She usually takes control by this time and guides me in with one hand while pushing me back with the other.


At this point it doesn't sound anything like rape, since she is guiding you in...



SongsAboutJane said:


> Trust me when I say that I go slow, sometimes she tells me I was going too slow. Once I am in, I can feel her muscles tightly trying to push me out. As time goes on, she gets into it, and the muscles usually give in and she becomes fully dilated.
> 
> The last time we had sex, I came. I laid on top of her and she forcefully started grasping my back, going down to my hips. I am ticklish at the waste side, so I would try to grab her hands and bring them back up, but she was fighting me. Telling me not to pull my penis out of her. Seeing that I was ticklish she continued to try to grab me, I kept trying to stop her, at one point I grabbed her hands, and she forcefully released herself and went back to making me squirm. I couldn't take it anymore and jumped off her and then she slapped me. She apologized, it didn't hurt physically, but more emotionally.
> 
> ...


Slaps are dangerous, because it's crossing the boundary of disrespect. I'm not sure I would allow it, and definately not allow it to be a one way street.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Hang on, I seem to remember during the summer you trying to break a dry spell with her and afterwards her playing a lot of head games with you - flirting with a coworker and such.
> 
> Honestly it sounds like she has sexual issues in general and it might have nothing to do with her vagina contracting.



Hi Ms. Scarlett,
Happy new year. Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for replying. Only time will tell where this is going to go. I'll be sure to update you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

SongsAboutJane said:


> Hi Ms. Scarlett,
> 
> Happy new year. Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for replying. Only time will tell where this is going to go. I'll be sure to update you.



Nice deflection.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> Hi Ms. Scarlett,
> Happy new year. Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for replying. Only time will tell where this is going to go. I'll be sure to update you.


Can you guys point me to the thread with the head games? 

I had a lady who once would mentally torture me, seemingly in exchange for the sex.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

SongsAboutJane said:


> I have not asked her what she thinks sex is supposed to be like, never thought to. I did ask her once why it is so hard for her to reach out to me for sex and she just started crying.
> 
> She sometimes is in pain after intercourse.
> 
> ...


And I'll bet she didn't seek any psychological help to work through it.

She has some messed up ideas about sex. I don't think it's vaginismus if she is able to eventually relax when your penis is inside her. I think her problems are psychological and she has developed some sexual behaviors as a result.

If she was abused as a child, that's why she's locking her legs. Bet she did that as a child, too, when being raped, to try to keep him/her out. 

She needs a gyno exam to rule out physical problems, and then a good therapist who specializes in child abuse and related sexual problems.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

norajane said:


> And I'll bet she didn't seek any psychological help to work through it.
> 
> She has some messed up ideas about sex. I don't think it's vaginismus if she is able to eventually relax when your penis is inside her. I think her problems are psychological and she has developed some sexual behaviors as a result.
> 
> ...


I still think going through the process for vagnismus would help her to relax her pelvic floor and vaginal muscles during penetration. It needs to not be ruled, because like I said, it can be brought on from bad experience affiliating with the sex act.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Nice deflection.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...al-our-sex-life.html?highlight=SongsAboutJane


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Nice deflection.


Not sure what you mean.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Hmmm. You say that you'll be working on things, but she refuses to see a doctor and you need to accept her as she is. Is she onboard with changing things, or not?

Personally, I'm going with the "CSA" related issue. Until she gets that resolved (which may take years, even if she's seriously trying to heal), things aren't going to change. In the meantime, you should be doing your own research on survivors of CSA and living with them. You may be aggregating the issues without realizing it. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...al-our-sex-life.html?highlight=SongsAboutJane


Songs,

So I read the history and it sounds like compared to TAM you do have a sex life. That she used to like to be in control of it and any hint of you controlling it would turn her off. But then you kinda flipped it where you took some control.

It sounds like you were in an overanalytical phase like many of us on TAM. It's hard to live life when your analyzing cause and effect for each minute behavior.

I wish you the best, but I'd address that vaginismus and therapy issue with the wife, and during the treatement to minimize or even remove the sex act.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

PBear said:


> Hmmm. You say that you'll be working on things, but she refuses to see a doctor and you need to accept her as she is. Is she onboard with changing things, or not?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It depends what day it is. I spent the last two months, not bringing up sex at all. She one day thanked me for being patient with her and she said she was going to talk to her doctor. She said she realizes that I have a higher sex drive than her, and that she can spend three weeks without thinking about sex until her body tells her. I was actually a bit fine for the last two months, waiting for her to come to me. Which happened once. She got hot and we had great sex. 

She was again in the mood a few days ago and I said something stupid and we had a fight. Everytime the mood is right, I mess up, and she closes the opportunity.

I kissed her in bed and asked her for intimacy a day after the fight and this is how it ended.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So in other words, she's not really committed to working with you on fixing things...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> It depends what day it is. I spent the last two months, not bringing up sex at all. She one day thanked me for being patient with her and she said she was going to talk to her doctor. She said she realizes that I have a higher sex drive than her, and that she can spend three weeks without thinking about sex until her body tells her. I was actually a bit fine for the last two months, waiting for her to come to me. Which happened once. She got hot and we had great sex.
> 
> She was again in the mood a few days ago and I said something stupid and we had a fight. Everytime the mood is right, I mess up, and she closes the opportunity.
> 
> I kissed her in bed and asked her for intimacy a day after the fight and this is how it ended.


You have to find a way for her body to TELL her much more often, without you saying a word. Something turns her on in somebody...


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

treyvion said:


> It sounds like you were in an overanalytical phase like many of us on TAM. It's hard to live life when your analyzing cause and effect for each minute behavior.


I've been doing that for the last two months. Not over analyzing anything. I've recently stopped using social media as seeing her posts would bother me at times as I would try to analyze them all. I've been fine, it's just that struggle ending with a slap concerned me. I would have been fine if she didn't show that level of aggression towards me. It kind of felt like she was saying, you did what you wanted now I'm going to hurt you.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> I've been doing that for the last two months. Not over analyzing anything. I've recently stopped using social media as seeing her posts would bother me at times as I would try to analyze them all. I've been fine, it's just that struggle ending with a slap concerned me. I would have been fine if she didn't show that level of aggression towards me. It kind of felt like she was saying, you did what you wanted now I'm going to hurt you.


I'm talking about living life and doing what makes you happy not worrying about analyzing even a single bit. IT's hard to get out of that mode.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

SongsAboutJane said:


> I've been doing that for the last two months. Not over analyzing anything. I've recently stopped using social media as seeing her posts would bother me at times as I would try to analyze them all. I've been fine, it's just that struggle ending with a slap concerned me. I would have been fine if she didn't show that level of aggression towards me. It kind of felt like she was saying, you did what you wanted now I'm going to hurt you.


Yeah, I'd say slapping you after sex is a problem. Absolutely.

That's why a therapist is needed here. These aren't issues that you are magically going to find a cure for if you just do x or y or z. She's been carrying this around for a long time.

Ask her what she thinks sex is supposed to be like, what a satisfying sexual experience looks like for her, start to finish. Ask her why she locks her legs together and expects you to struggle to pry them apart so that she can push you away and then accept you grudgingly. Ask her why she slapped you. Ask her why she treats you like an enemy in bed.

If her idea of what 'good sex' looks like is what you are getting, this is all you will ever have for a sex life.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

treyvion said:


> I'm talking about living life and doing what makes you happy not worrying about analyzing even a single bit. IT's hard to get out of that mode.


It's been hard. I have been focusing on what I need. I have to continue that path.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> It's been hard. I have been focusing on what I need. I have to continue that path.


You know how obsessed men and women get and it's looked at as being selfish, almost to that level. Help your wife though during her recovery, once you get yourself 100% back it will be easier to be assertive enough for the proper intercourse.

I'd have her go through that vaginismus procedure, so in her mind penetration is not a problem because she has retrained the response. Talk to doctors until you find one who takes it seriously and understands it.

You'll have one of the hottest TAM sex lifes.


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## NickyMcCoy (Feb 1, 2014)

My issue is not vaginismus, but do have a problem where I am not able to have vaginal sex.

I have been together with my husband for 8 years, but married last December.

This was a problem at the beginning of our relationship, the only reason we did not break up was because we went to therapy and I wanted him in my life, and it worked, we are both very happy and this isn't an issue at all.

My husband has a very high sex drive, but with the help of a therapist we where able to work around the problem.

I give oral to my husband 2 or 3 times a week, and when we have intercourse he goes the back way. I don't think this would work for many couples but it works for us and we couldn't be happier.

Therapy works!!!


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

NickyMcCoy said:


> My issue is not vaginismus, but do have a problem where I am not able to have vaginal sex.
> 
> I have been together with my husband for 8 years, but married last December.
> 
> ...



She has been offering to stimulate me more often, once a week on average. But her heart really was not in it and all I could think about was her desire for it to be over. It's funny you mention the back door. I brought that up to my wife and she laughed and quickly said no. She said we had been there and done that. I do agree with you on the Therapy. I just can't convince her to go.


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