# Just don't understand?



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

This is probably just letting off steam, but I just don't get it. After reading this forum and living life, I realize that there are husbands who lie, cheat, are physically and verbally abusive, are lazy and wont help around the house, change a diaper, or get a job, etc., yet somehow, their wife still wants them. I know of a situation in my town where a man was making meth and got he and his wife both arrested, yet she still wants him. On the other hand, I am just the opposite of all that, yet I failed to do things that, according to my wife, made her feel special, and she divorced me:scratchhead: i never understood how a man could treat his wife like dirt, but she still wanted him, but I unintentionally fail on some relationship skills and I'm out the door.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Southbound,

What do people do with doormats?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

southbound said:


> This is probably just letting off steam, but I just don't get it. After reading this forum and living life, I realize that there are husbands who lie, cheat, are physically and verbally abusive, are lazy and wont help around the house, change a diaper, or get a job, etc., yet somehow, their wife still wants them. I know of a situation in my town where a man was making meth and got he and his wife both arrested, yet she still wants him. On the other hand, I am just the opposite of all that, yet I failed to do things that, according to my wife, made her feel special, and she divorced me:scratchhead: i never understood how a man could treat his wife like dirt, but she still wanted him.


Lack of self esteem, period. She thinks she can do no better. 

Your ex is under the delusion that some other guy will make her feel special. While nice gestures are always appreciated by us women, if we are looking at those acts as the sole validation of ourselves, we fail. Nobody and I mean nobody can make a person feel loved/special/important unless they feel that about themselves. I too am struggling with this. A lifetime of being "last in line" if you will but I recognize that my past has alot to do with my current feelings. Once I get happy with myself, what my husband does or doesn't do will not affect me as much.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Lack of self esteem, period. She thinks she can do no better.
> 
> Your ex is under the delusion that some other guy will make her feel special. While nice gestures are always appreciated by us women, if we are looking at those acts as the sole validation of ourselves, we fail. Nobody and I mean nobody can make a person feel loved/special/important unless they feel that about themselves. I too am struggling with this. A lifetime of being "last in line" if you will but I recognize that my past has alot to do with my current feelings. Once I get happy with myself, what my husband does or doesn't do will not affect me as much.


That sounds like my wife. She even made the comment that she had always done things to make other people happy and now it was time for her to be happy. When she said always, she was going all the way back to childhood as well as our marriage.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Pandakiss said:


> i think its old restments. those things just keep on poppin up. if you never knew what her prob was, how could the two if you worked on it??
> 
> i remember your other thread WHAT DO WOMEN WANT, i posted a few things on there, that now [20/20] maybe didnt help to much.
> 
> ...


Thanks for saying I seem like a nice guy. I admit, I could use a lot of work when it comes to basic relationship skills, but I never intentionally meant to hurt my wife or make her feel neglected. I always tried to do what I thought would make her happy, but I guess I was doing what I thought would generally make any woman happy when i should have realized she was an individual.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Well, I'll not be a broken record this time, so here's the same truth from a different perspective


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

southbound,

I'm with you man. I am damn tired of reading how nice guys finish last and you have to be an arrogant prick to keep your woman interested. I'm sick of it. I happen to like being a nice guy. I get tired of people thinking I'm a "doormat" because they perceive that I don't stand up for myself. Personally, I just don't give a **** enough to fight for things I consider unimportant. If that makes me a doormat, so be it.

OK I better shut up now before I start really going off...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I am damn tired of reading how nice guys finish last and you have to be an arrogant prick to keep your woman interested. I'm sick of it. I happen to like being a nice guy. I get tired of people thinking I'm a "doormat" because they perceive that I don't stand up for myself. Personally, I just don't give a **** enough to fight for things I consider unimportant. If that makes me a doormat, so be it.


Hey Southbound & Frustr8dhubby - I prefer your type, my husband is like you both. Not all women are the same. In my personal opionion, so long as these *NICE men *(using the Dictionary meaning of Nice, not the popular Men's books) --so long as these men have a hot & active sex drive & know how to lavish this attention on their women, they are FAR SUPERIOR to any bad boy around. Totally my type. 

Unless you have read & looked into the meaning of what they are talking about when using the "nice guy" term, you might not be totally understanding it & the disdain you find on this forum. I bought the book just to understand for myself cause I often felt my husband was being slammed -like you feel when reading some of this, specifically BBW's posts. It was royally ticking ME off for a time. 

But came to learn the meaning entailed so much more --like men acting a certain way to "keep the peace" - at any cost -when inside they are seething, anger is building. And in truth, they are hiding who they REALLY are, their TRUE feelings from their wives. These are not healthy behaviors as you can imagine. Better to NOT be passive when you are angry -but to use REAL communication, even if it makes you NOT look so nice. 

Came to find out my husband was some of those things but certainly not all. Some men are just GOOD guys at their core, genuinally kind natured & care about those around them & this shows in their daily living, they are more patient than the rest of us, more calm, more sacrifical by nature. They couldn't even act like the Bad Boy type if they tried, would be totally out of their element! But that doesn't automatically deem them "doormats" either.

Hope that helps a little !!


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## Confused Love (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm sorry your wife left.  You do seem nice and I believe you really did try. I can't really comment on why she left in context to your post, but on the first part I will put in my two cents. 

I don't know! LOL 

You think I joke but I don't. My hubby in many people's eyes is lazy, freeloading, neglectful, insensitive, and just all around childish. At one point I was engaged in an EA which I havn't really talked about here yet. I just think of the good times, what I know he has it in him to be. I believe he is stuck right now and it sucks and I get screwed because of it, but somewhere deep down I just don't believe it will always be like this. I always hope and think that it will get better. Maybe that's naive on my part, i'm sort of a submissive personality to begin with, but that's how I look at it. I also know that as bad as he may have been with me, there are women/men out there that get treated a whole heck of a lot worse. 

In some ways I wish I didn't care anymore, I've tried to not care, but it happens anyway. I really don't know. 

I'm sorry if that's not helpful at all.

Obviously your wife was not in a place to appreciate what she had. She thought there was better for her. I know that a lot of times when it comes to communicating love we misread each others signals. I have read on here and other places that we have to learn to speak the language of our spouse but we also have to learn to listen and accept it too. Maybe she wasn't willing to listen to the ways you tried to communicate love to her. Hopefully you will find someone who will.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Southbound, you DO sound like a nice guy. And believe me, there are women who CHERISH that kind of man. I shudder when I read some of the posts and get brave enough to check out some of the blogs that are posted. I have regretted that decision to date. I actually feel sorry for some of them. 
I can't tell you why some women go for those that mistreat them. I would think it's a self esteem thing as well. I think back to when I didn't know better, and my self esteem was definitely lacking. And the one time I had a "nice guy", admittedly he bored me. But that was on me. This guy was anything but boring. It was MY PROBLEM. That I didn't recognize what was truly good and decent in the world was my downfall. 
This is why I hope beyond hope that the nice guys that come in looking for advice take that macho blathering with a grain of salt. In all honesty, a woman who is comfortable with herself, who KNOWS herself and exactly what she wants will appreciate someone like you. Understanding that we all have a few warts. But nice guys ROCK!!!!


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

The good news is women appreciate nice guys when they get older.

The bad news is women don't appreciate nice guys until they get older.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

The news period is that women appreciate the nice guy after they've had a belly full of the "other" men. That doesn't necessarily have to happen when you're older. It happens when you're SMARTER.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Southbound - have you gone to Atholks site: married man sex life?

If so, what do you think?





southbound said:


> This is probably just letting off steam, but I just don't get it. After reading this forum and living life, I realize that there are husbands who lie, cheat, are physically and verbally abusive, are lazy and wont help around the house, change a diaper, or get a job, etc., yet somehow, their wife still wants them. I know of a situation in my town where a man was making meth and got he and his wife both arrested, yet she still wants him. On the other hand, I am just the opposite of all that, yet I failed to do things that, according to my wife, made her feel special, and she divorced me:scratchhead: i never understood how a man could treat his wife like dirt, but she still wanted him, but I unintentionally fail on some relationship skills and I'm out the door.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

major misfit said:


> The news period is that women appreciate the nice guy after they've had a belly full of the "other" men. That doesn't necessarily have to happen when you're older. It happens when you're SMARTER.


So the "nice guy" gets the older woman, more cynical of men (smarter? jaded?), that has already had a belly full of bad boys.

Hurrah for the "nice guy"!


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Don't make assumptions. Dangerous ground. Since when does "smart" equal "jaded" or "cynical"? And not ALL older women will accept younger men. I almost missed out on mine just BECAUSE he was younger. Had my "rules", y'know. I had to be talked into calling him (I never gave out my number). So much for rules!


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Glad you didn't miss out! 

Becoming smart, that comes from experience.

Experience with many men, particularly "bad boy" men, not the primary selling point for a woman looking for LTR man.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Ah, but you see...I wasn't looking for a LTR. Didn't want one, didn't need one. And my level of "experience" with "bad boy" men constitutes TWO. Two of 'em. Enough to last me a lifetime. I needed to edit that my "experience" with two were with men that I spent any length of time with. Once I sniffed the "bad boy" in someone, I was outta there! 
Curiously enough, at 45...I had more 30-somethings (and several 20-somethings as well ) attempt to take me out. Analyze that all you want to...you wouldn't think anything I hadn't already thought. The mind-set that older women are somehow unfulfilled, and looking for something in a younger man that men their own age couldn't provide. But then this isn't a thread about older women/younger men, is it?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

YouTube - Bad to the Bone Sing-Along




> I am damn tired of reading how nice guys finish last and you have to be an arrogant prick to keep your woman interested.


In my opinion, it's not about being an arrogant prick.
Nice guy / bad boy, women want it all mate, just how it is. 

Why play with just one side of the coin, when you can play with two?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> The good news is women appreciate nice guys when they get older.
> 
> The bad news is women don't appreciate nice guys until they get older.



The weird part is that my wife and I have been married 18 years. When we were dating, she would verbally say that she didn't understand why girls liked the wild boys. She said she was sure they would regrt it when they had kids and had to live real life. But now, she has turned in the other direction.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> The weird part is that my wife and I have been married 18 years. When we were dating, she would verbally say that she didn't understand why girls liked the wild boys. She said she was sure they would regrt it when they had kids and had to live real life. But now, she has turned in the other direction.


This can happen in Mid Life with some women. 

I have seen it 1st hand with a few women. One of them I am close too, she left the perfect good man for a drummer who likes to party & go out , he was a little younger too, more excitement I guess. The thing I feel went wrong in that particular marraige was -- she kept asking the husband to go out WITH HER dancing, probably trying to re-live her youth or something and he kept refusing, saying he liked staying home-being with the kids , so she started going out alone with friends. Which led to meeting this drummer. Didn't last anyway. Now both of them are alone and single. A short ride of excitement & a broken marriage & family. What a waste. 

I guess I feel -- He should have indulged her just a little - in that wild time in her life (as it surely passed). And she should have recognized this is a Phase & not stepped over into dangerous territory. Maybe they had more problems I am not aware of but this is what she spoke about. 

To be perfectly honest , I have thought more about a "little Variety" at this stage in my life more than ever before, in fact I NEVER entertained such thoughts before. Caught me by surprise too. Mid life can do a # on some women. I have changed very much, but I know this is a phase , a passage. I am still the same woman. I just KNOW the grass would never be greener in my case. And my husband , thankfully , indulges me in these things that matter to me right now, unlike the example I gave. 

You wife was not vocal enough with you about what she was missing or feeling she was missing when the stirrings began. Not your fault. She did not do her part - so how could you help her through it -when she choose silence & growing indifference over communication. 

These things just shouldn't happen.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

And as each year of low friction/low passion passed she slowly got more frustrated by that decision. 

Your story is very very common. 




southbound said:


> The weird part is that my wife and I have been married 18 years. When we were dating, she would verbally say that she didn't understand why girls liked the wild boys. She said she was sure they would regrt it when they had kids and had to live real life. But now, she has turned in the other direction.


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## gregj123 (Dec 29, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This can happen in Mid Life with some women.
> 
> I have seen it 1st hand with a few women. One of them I am close too, she left the perfect good man for a drummer who likes to party & go out , he was a little younger too, more excitement I guess. The thing I feel went wrong in that particular marraige was -- she kept asking the husband to go out WITH HER dancing, probably trying to re-live her youth or something and he kept refusing, saying he liked staying home-being with the kids , so she started going out alone with friends. Which led to meeting this drummer. Didn't last anyway. Now both of them are alone and single. A short ride of excitement & a broken marriage & family. What a waste.
> 
> ...


Id life crisis I guess Im at that point with my wife but dont want us to end up both of us alone & a riuned family!


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

RandomDude,

My point is, why do I have to "play" at being anything? I am who I am. It really isn't in my nature to be ****y/confident/etc. To Simply Amorous' point, I just don't think I have it in me to be a "Bad Boy". Maybe in the bedroom but that takes a willing partner! 

In fact, now that I think about it, why should we have to make ourselves into anything if it isn't expected from the female side? I'd like to have a porn star in the bedroom but if she doesn't do that could I be expected to be bored and leave her?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Folks always told me that I'll never settle, that I'm too wild, too selfish, and don't have it in me to maintain a long term relationship. Look how that turned out 

It's not about being someone you're not (if you do, I'd be very worried lol), it's about learning how to keep your missus, you seem to be a decent bloke so you should know this. It's not about being a "bad boy" "nice guy" "rich guy" or even "smart guy", you just have to learn which qualities of those that women like, they like the good stuff of all of those stereotypical examples. I.E. They want it all.



> In fact, now that I think about it, why should we have to make ourselves into anything if it isn't expected from the female side? I'd like to have a porn star in the bedroom but if she doesn't do that could I be expected to be bored and leave her?


For me, I've always been picky myself, there was one thing someone said to me once though:
"It's not about finding the right person, it's about being the right person for the right one to come to you" - aka work on own's flaws, only thing one can do really.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This can happen in Mid Life with some women.
> 
> I have seen it 1st hand with a few women. One of them I am close too, she left the perfect good man for a drummer who likes to party & go out , he was a little younger too, more excitement I guess. The thing I feel went wrong in that particular marraige was -- she kept asking the husband to go out WITH HER dancing, probably trying to re-live her youth or something and he kept refusing, saying he liked staying home-being with the kids , so she started going out alone with friends. Which led to meeting this drummer. Didn't last anyway. Now both of them are alone and single. A short ride of excitement & a broken marriage & family. What a waste.
> 
> ...



This sounds like the situation with my ex. She didn't seem to want to go "wild," but she seemed to want to visit more and play games and vacation more. As I grew older, I guess I grew more tired of these things and was happy at home, although I thought I was being a good husband in other areas. I didn't realize those things were that important, and I certainly didn't realize it could help lead to a divorce. I just wonder if she will reach a point that she realizes the grass was a little greener with me than she realized, or if she will get someone ele and be forever happy.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This can happen in Mid Life with some women.
> 
> I have seen it 1st hand with a few women. One of them I am close too, she left the perfect good man for a drummer who likes to party & go out , he was a little younger too, more excitement I guess. The thing I feel went wrong in that particular marriage was -- she kept asking the husband to go out WITH HER dancing, probably trying to re-live her youth or something and he kept refusing, saying he liked staying home-being with the kids , so she started going out alone with friends. Which led to meeting this drummer. Didn't last anyway. Now both of them are alone and single. A short ride of excitement & a broken marriage & family. What a waste.


Why do people automatically assume that a woman like this is being an idiot for wanting to go out and have a good time? :scratchhead: I agree that the part about her ditching the husband for a drummer was nuts but surely he could've gone out with her once in awhile and shake a leg? There's such a thing as compromise. They could go out every once in awhile and stay home and relax too. You can have it both ways!

The problem is so many people hit middle age and consider it the first step to the old age home. They want to sit home and chill and watch TV or whatnot. That's fine but if you are living with the OTHER side of the coin...The other type who, after years of being housebound due to children and whatnot, suddenly realize that maybe they've got 20-25 good years left before they really DO hit old age and want to go and relive their youth a bit and have FUN? Why is this bad? Why is going to the clubs and dancing a bad thing? It's fun, it's great exercise and done without getting yourself in trouble (overly drunk, wasted and sleeping with everything that has something hanging between their legs) it's a blast! Why not do stuff at 45 that you did at 25 if you are so inclined? 

Why is there this feeling that you need to "settle down" and "mellow out"? I hear that 45 is the new 25 and I feel as good, if not better, than I did 20 years ago. I'd like to say I look as good but there's no getting around aging but for someone my age I think I hold my own. Stuff like losing weight, getting a new wardrobe, a new "do" will indeed give a once slovenly woman incentive to go out and get a new leash on life. I don't see a problem with that if you don't act like an idiot. Too bad so many see it as a license to do just that. 

When my kids got old enough to stay home by themselves for a bit over a year my husband and I had a grand time going out to the clubs, dancing, watching live music, kayaking, taking day trips and planning to do overnighters once our kids could stay overnight without us. We did get in solo camping trip (something we'd planned and talked about for years). I felt no incentive to run out and date younger guys. Quite the opposite I got totally into my husband and he was into me. Our sex life was the best it was for years! For the first time in 20 years I thought we had a shot at a great marriage. It wasn't perfect but things seem to be on the right track. But then this past summer my husband fell prey to depression and alcoholism and now we are separated. We still love each other but can't live together. If someone had told me this was going to be the case a year ago, on January 2, 2010 I would've laughed in their face. What a difference a year makes...

So life pretty much sucks sometimes and it certainly doesn't seem fair. Now I am without husband but I'm not going out by myself prowling the bars for younger drummers but I do like going out to see bands and hang with people I know. I'm not ready to roll over and die yet but I'm well aware that my "good" years are indeed numbered. That's the sad part of middle age. The good part is that you can pretty much be yourself and not give a flying leap about what others think because you realize it doesn't really matter anyway. 

Somewhere is a happy medium between middle aged stogeyness and boredom and acting like a complete and utter fool.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

southbound said:


> This sounds like the situation with my ex. She didn't seem to want to go "wild," but she seemed to want to visit more and play games and vacation more. As I grew older, I guess I grew more tired of these things and was happy at home, although I thought I was being a good husband in other areas. I didn't realize those things were that important, and I certainly didn't realize it could help lead to a divorce. I just wonder if she will reach a point that she realizes the grass was a little greener with me than she realized, or if she will get someone ele and be forever happy.


From your posts, I get the feeling you simply cannot believe this happened to you.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Why do people automatically assume that a woman like this is being an idiot for wanting to go out and have a good time? :scratchhead: I agree that the part about her ditching the husband for a drummer was nuts but surely he could've gone out with her once in awhile and shake a leg? There's such a thing as compromise. They could go out every once in awhile and stay home and .


I don't think my wife was an idiot, I just think boredom is a lame excuse for a divorce; that is something that could be worked out. 
I know my ex enough to know that how she has acted in the last few months is not her, and in a few years, if not sooner, she will probably wish she had back that boring guy who built her dream house, washed her clothes, took care of her kids, and gave her the life that she wanted when we first met. I also think wanting to escape boredom is a lame excuse to turn our young children's lives upside down.




Conrad said:


> From your posts, I get the feeling you simply cannot believe this happened to you.


You are correct. We just aren't the kind of people who do this type of thing. She has never indicated she wanted any other kind of life. the sad part is that I think she will regret it down the road, but it is already too late.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SB,

What do you mean? "We aren't the kind of people"?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Why do people automatically assume that a woman like this is being an idiot for wanting to go out and have a good time? :scratchhead: I agree that the part about her ditching the husband for a drummer was nuts but surely he could've gone out with her once in awhile and shake a leg? There's such a thing as compromise. They could go out every once in awhile and stay home and relax too. You can have it both ways!


Freak on a leash - I absolutely agree with you on these things! :iagree: I feel the husband was negligent for NOT going with her -when she kept asking & bugging him -then gave up. They were married for 19 yrs, had 3 kids, everyone was totally shocked (family especially) , this happend about 8 yrs ago, and even then, I rememeber thinking to myself ---SHe is absolutely CRAZY to be leaving "______" - I personally did NOT understand this CHANGE that came over her, she was always so into her kids, down to earth, not really a wild child (but was in her youth I guess) . 

I personally just "didnt get it" until I hit MID LIFE myself and had my own stirrings, and wanting to "Go back in time"- Feel young & vibrant again, It suddenly dawned on me what SHE was going through, and how it could have happened with her husbands constant rejecting. She NEEDED him to go along, be a part of HER WORLD during that difficult but very exciting time. Obviously he just didnt "get it " - never thought it could lead to divorce. And just 5 yrs later, she doesn't go out & dance anymore, it all passed as quickly as it started. 

Yes, He needed to do some compromising - for the sake of satisfying each other's Needs. Never wise for a woman to be going out alone with single friends to bars dancing late at night, expecially "Cougars". 

I guess all men should be reading up on Women going through Mid Life! It has lessons they need to learn --in advance.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Conrad said:


> SB,
> 
> What do you mean? "We aren't the kind of people"?


I agree with Conrad, NOONE is immune to this ! By taking this attitude, it could be one of the things that hindered communication, maybe she felt she could not talk to you about her feelings, as you would immdiately brush her off, TOO MUCH TRUST. But little understanding , room for growth, for some changes.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree with Conrad, NOONE is immune to this ! By taking this attitude, it could be one of the things that hindered communication, maybe she felt she could not talk to you about her feelings, as you would immdiately brush her off, TOO MUCH TRUST. But little understanding , room for growth, for some changes.


SA,

This sort of thing hurt my ex.

I'm almost certain she consoled herself with the idea that "we aren't that kind of people" that would get divorced.

I can tell you I hated the divorce.

The only thing I would have hated more was to stay with her.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Conrad said:


> SB,
> 
> What do you mean? "We aren't the kind of people"?



I mean that due to our personalities and attitudes, it seems more shocking that we are divorced. There are some who go into a marriage with the attitude already that if it doesn't work, they will get a divorce, no big deal. There are some who get divorced and it doesn't really shock anybody. We were the "til death do us part types," and that is the kind of families we came from. Us getting a divorce is like Donald Trump saying he doesn't like business deals or Bruce Springsteen saying he doesn't like making music. Everybody we know says they can't believe it; they are totally shocked. I'm just surprised that she wasn't willing to put more effort into making it work.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SB,
Is she dating someone else now?




southbound said:


> I mean that due to our personalities and attitudes, it seems more shocking that we are divorced. There are some who go into a marriage with the attitude already that if it doesn't work, they will get a divorce, no big deal. There are some who get divorced and it doesn't really shock anybody. We were the "til death do us part types," and that is the kind of families we came from. Us getting a divorce is like Donald Trump saying he doesn't like business deals or Bruce Springsteen saying he doesn't like making music. Everybody we know says they can't believe it; they are totally shocked. I'm just surprised that she wasn't willing to put more effort into making it work.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

southbound said:


> I mean that due to our personalities and attitudes, it seems more shocking that we are divorced. There are some who go into a marriage with the attitude already that if it doesn't work, they will get a divorce, no big deal. There are some who get divorced and it doesn't really shock anybody. We were the "til death do us part types," and that is the kind of families we came from. Us getting a divorce is like Donald Trump saying he doesn't like business deals or Bruce Springsteen saying he doesn't like making music. Everybody we know says they can't believe it; they are totally shocked. I'm just surprised that she wasn't willing to put more effort into making it work.


Do you think this idea caused you to become complacent?


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

southbound said:


> I don't think my wife was an idiot, I just think boredom is a lame excuse for a divorce; that is something that could be worked out.
> I know my ex enough to know that how she has acted in the last few months is not her, and in a few years, if not sooner, she will probably wish she had back that boring guy who built her dream house, washed her clothes, took care of her kids, and gave her the life that she wanted when we first met. I also think wanting to escape boredom is a lame excuse to turn our young children's lives upside down.


Well, sounds like classic "midlife crisis" to me. What happens is you suddenly look at your life, your situation and realize that you aren't going to be young and active forever..that there is an end to the road and you react in some crazy ways. I think your wife is at that point. She wants to break out and enjoy what life she has left..whether this is temporary or "correct" or not it's what she's feeling. You can lead, follow or get out of her way but she's doing it with or without you. I feel bad for the kids. It's always a damn shame when kids are involved. 

I can actually relate to her though. When my husband and I were doing fun stuff together it was great, but then he started blowing me off and changing and not wanting to do things anymore with me it was like hitting a hammer on my head. It's one reason we are where we are. Is it right? Maybe not but when you are 45 you tend to look at life differently then when you are 25. 

For me, having my father die at age 66 was real smack up on the head. Heck, that's only about 20 years away and I can remember 20 years ago like it was yesterday. So now I look at life differently and think that I won't have forever to do the things I want to do, to be happy, to pursue my dreams and yes, to shake a leg and party it up at the local bar, to travel and one day buy a motorcycle and take up road trips again once my kids leave the nest. 

I think you needed to make a decision with your wife. You can be the one to go out and have fun with her or you can stay in your own cocoon and nest and grumble about it. Sounds like chose the latter. If she's unhappy because she's bored with you then it isn't lame. There's no right or wrong when it comes to emotions or happiness, it's just what it is. 

Personally you sound like a nice guy but I couldn't be married to a guy at this point in my life that just wants to stay home all the time, no matter how nice a guy he is. Life is too short and I work too hard to sit home and do nothing on my time off. I did it all thru my 30s while raising kids and I sure as hell am not doing it in my mid 40s and 50s. I want to get out and LIVE now, not watch the world pass by. 

My father always used to say "Someday I will do this..that..". He had all these plans that he kept putting off. Then he got cancer and 6 months later he was dead.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> SB,
> Is she dating someone else now?


Yes. She said they didn't start dating until after our divorce was final, which was less than 2 weeks ago.




Conrad said:


> Do you think this idea caused you to become complacent?


I'm sure it did, but still, I think if she had gotten my attention we could have worked something out instead of a divorce being the answer.



Freak On a Leash said:


> Well, sounds like classic "midlife crisis" to me. What happens is you suddenly look at your life, your situation and realize that you aren't going to be young and active forever..that there is an end to the road and you react in some crazy ways. I think your wife is at that point. She wants to break out and enjoy what life she has left..whether this is temporary or "correct" or not it's what she's feeling. You can lead, follow or get out of her way but she's doing it with or without you. I feel bad for the kids. It's always a damn shame when kids are involved.
> 
> I can actually relate to her though. When my husband and I were doing fun stuff together it was great, but then he started blowing me off and changing and not wanting to do things anymore with me it was like hitting a hammer on my head. It's one reason we are where we are. Is it right? Maybe not but when you are 45 you tend to look at life differently then when you are 25.
> 
> ...



Even though I may have said her reasons were lame, I really don't think her emotions are lame, I just don't think the punishment fits the crime. 

Apparently I'm old fashioned as well. I like to have fun too, but I think at my age there are more important things than shaking a leg on the dance floor, so to speak. I could turn this around and say that I could have asked for a divorce because she never wanted to have sex and because she wanted to be involved in activities that I didn't like, but I would never do that in a million years; I think the good things we had going for us, like two beautiful kids who were making great grades and seemed to be loving life, financial stability, etc, outweight my desires for sex or my dislike of being more active. 

There is really no good time for this, however, had she asked for a divorce within the first 5 years for these same reasons before our kids came along, it would have made a little more sense. I, however, don't see how one turns two beautiful kids lives upside down and flushes 18 years of your life down the drain just because your spouse doesn't want to be more active, especially since she "acted" happy until recently.

I could also understand it if I was a lazy bum with no job, was abusive, or something of that nature, but i currently don't get it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

In other words, you're a nice guy.

It's clear she lost interest.

You didn't see it coming.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Conrad said:


> In other words, you're a nice guy.
> 
> It's clear she lost interest.
> 
> You didn't see it coming.


That may be a good way to put it. the weird part is that she pursued me heavily in order to get me to go out with her; she acted as though she was crazy about me and continued to into our marriage. Apparently there was something about me she wanted at the time, I'm just puzzled as to how it went sour.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

And this is why "sex" is such a key barometer of health for a marriage when both spouses are "physically healthy". 

Because low drive, mid drive or high drive if your W is TRULY happy being married to YOU - he or she makes a sincere effort to keep YOU happy. 

When your spouse stops trying to make YOU happy one of two things is true:
- they don't respect you enough to believe that anything will really "happen" as a result of a lack of effort or
- they are is unhappy enough with you that they really aren't too worried about whether you are happy/unhappy or even thinking of divorce

I realized that SB's W was not highly sexual with him from the start but part of that was creating a relationship foundation where some of "his" core desires/needs were mainly given lip service. She "told" him she loved him a lot. IME talk is cheap. 

And SB - she DID love you as a pal and provider. The less adventurous you got - the more the "non-sexual" passion in the R faded - the more unhappy she got. 





Conrad said:


> In other words, you're a nice guy.
> 
> It's clear she lost interest.
> 
> You didn't see it coming.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> The good news is women appreciate nice guys when they get older.
> 
> The bad news is women don't appreciate nice guys until they get older.


Women who don't appreciate nice guys are pinheads. 

A lot of young girls are pin heads. I don't know about middle aged women, are they still pinheads?

When a woman is married to a nice guy, she ruins her life by being disrespectful to her man, by being lazy and demanding, she is stupid! No one says that she can spoil herself and wants the nice guy to treat her like a queen!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> And this is why "sex" is such a key barometer of health for a marriage when both spouses are "physically healthy".
> 
> Because low drive, mid drive or high drive if your W is TRULY happy being married to YOU - he or she makes a sincere effort to keep YOU happy.
> 
> ...


There's really no way to say this any better.

As a "high drive" partner, much of my focus has been on how to maintain high quality and frequency. Of course, that's created it's own set of problems.

Of course, relationships can't be "just about sex". But, there does need to be a way to take the temperature of the relationship. Couples are foolish to ignore this.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Conrad said:


> There's really no way to say this any better.
> 
> As a "high drive" partner, much of my focus has been on how to maintain high quality and frequency. Of course, that's created it's own set of problems.
> 
> Of course, relationships can't be "just about sex". But, there does need to be a way to take the temperature of the relationship. Couples are foolish to ignore this.



I guess i was just too dumb to recognize that her low sex drive ran deeper than what it appeared. I guess I just thought that was "her" and I always hoped that perhaps it would change. I was too dumb to recognize that her low drive actually had something to do with me. She told me she was tired from her demanding job a lot, which is probably true, but if she had been happier with us, she would have overcame the tiredness at times. We talked about our sex life over the years, but she didn't have any answers either, so i didn't know what to do. And I agree that a relationship can't be just about sex, but when one is starving, like I was, it often appears that sex is all they think about.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

southbound said:


> I guess i was just too dumb to recognize that her low sex drive ran deeper than what it appeared. I guess I just thought that was "her" and I always hoped that perhaps it would change. I was too dumb to recognize that her low drive actually had something to do with me. She told me she was tired from her demanding job a lot, which is probably true, but if she had been happier with us, she would have overcame the tiredness at times. We talked about our sex life over the years, but she didn't have any answers either, so i didn't know what to do. And I agree that a relationship can't be just about sex, but when one is starving, like I was, it often appears that sex is all they think about.


"A man is allowed to have needs, but not allowed to be needy."

MEM, Talk About Marriage - 2010


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Why do people automatically assume that a woman like this is being an idiot for wanting to go out and have a good time? :scratchhead: I agree that the part about her ditching the husband for a drummer was nuts but surely he could've gone out with her once in awhile and shake a leg? There's such a thing as compromise. They could go out every once in awhile and stay home and relax too. You can have it both ways!
> 
> The problem is so many people hit middle age and consider it the first step to the old age home. They want to sit home and chill and watch TV or whatnot. That's fine but if you are living with the OTHER side of the coin...The other type who, after years of being housebound due to children and whatnot, suddenly realize that maybe they've got 20-25 good years left before they really DO hit old age and want to go and relive their youth a bit and have FUN? Why is this bad? Why is going to the clubs and dancing a bad thing? It's fun, it's great exercise and done without getting yourself in trouble (overly drunk, wasted and sleeping with everything that has something hanging between their legs) it's a blast! Why not do stuff at 45 that you did at 25 if you are so inclined?
> 
> ...



An odd thing is that when we married, she was 19 and aside from her work, which she did work very hard, she was a couch potato. our big activity was renting movies on weekends, and we never went anywhere during the week, she was usually too tired. For years, we never went on vacations, we just stayed at home and she seemed content with that. So, I guess that made me think that is what she liked; the calm, laid back kind of life. We started going on vacations 4 or 5 years ago, but i guess I didn't realize that was so important. now I'm out the door partly because I never want to get out and do anything.:scratchhead:


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I don't understand!

Why do you still analyze your life with that woman in the past? She is gone, she is already gone. 

You did great or not in the past doesn't matter now. 

Many people are past oriented. They regret a lot for what they did and they didn't do. There is nothing you can do now to change what has happened. 

Things you should focus now is to be organized, be neat, be happy, be positive, be confident, and find another woman. I am sure that other woman will make you a much happier man. 

Admit the defeat, swallow the humiliation, and move on. Not everyone wins all the time, not everyone loses all the time. 

If you find another wonderful woman and live a happy life, you will be very happy that the ex left you!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I agree with several posters - some women stay due to a lack of self-esteem and they don't think they can get another man (either due to weight gain, age, etc.).

Some women stay because they truly love their husbands, believe in the "for better or for worse" and they try over and over to work things out (sometimes by themselves). 

Some stay due to their religion and how their religion views divorce.

Some stay because they are unable to support themselves (and their children), and have no where to go and at least the husband they have (usually) provides a roof and food on the table.

And some are just plain scared to leave what they find familiar and comfortable (yes I said comfortable) and start over.

I had a young girl who worked for me a few years ago whose husband beat her regularly, abused their animals (big red flag here) - shot one of their dogs because the dog sensed he was an a**hole and wouldn't come near him, had a severe drinking problem and had 4 DUIs under his belt, but she stayed and I couldn't get her to leave. She admitted she didn't love him anymore, but had 3 kids, he made a lot more money than she did and she couldn't support all 4 of them on her own.

I was finally able to convince her to leave after letting her know of all the help available and resources to help feed her and her children and put a roof over their head. I even went to our corporate office and got her a raise (she was a great worker), to help ease the burden.

She finally got out and now the ex-husband is in jail for beating up the next girlfriend.

So...while I know its hard to figure out - women are strange, but loving creatures. We want to nuture and "save" people, sometimes to our own detriment.

You sound like a great guy and it's her loss. IMO, she didn't love you enough to work it out and it was easier for her to just walk out.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I don't understand!
> 
> Why do you still analyze your life with that woman in the past? She is gone, she is already gone.
> 
> ...


If I decide to have another relationship, I just don't want to make the same mistake again, and being that I thought we had a great life, yet she was apparently unhappy, I am confused, so it would probably be easy for me to drive another relationship in the ground. I feel like this; if i walk outside in the rain, it's easy to understand how i got wet, but if the sun is shining, yet I notice I'm drenched when i walk in the house, that would be confusing. That's how I feel since my marriage has ended. people here have given me a lot of responses that I really appreciate, and it has helped shed some light on it, but there is still a puzzle that I will never fully understand.


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## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

Southbound... to answer your original question -- I'm somewhere in between. 

First, I'd had my share of dating the bad boys, but when it came to marrying a guy, I knew it wasn't the bad boys I wanted for that. Especially since I was a single mom - I had my daughter to think about, I needed a nice/good man to marry. And my dad was an alcoholic - I NEVER wanted that!!!

My husband WAS a nice guy when I met him and when I married him. He wasn't the verbally/physically abusive guy he turned into years later. So I fell in love with this nice guy and married him. Then, 3 years AFTER we got married (5 years after we met) his alcoholism took ahold of him, and a couple years later he became this verbally/physically abusive guy. And it's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been in this situation, but it's not so easy to just not love a person anymore - even when they've done this to you. Yeah, I've thrown him out, yeah, we're seperated right now, yeah, I don't know if I'm still IN LOVE. But I do still love him in some way, and I'm not entirely ready to just throw my marriage away. He's stopped drinking, he's recognized his problem (finally!!) and he's trying. 

And I'm co-dependent, so I have my problem too. And that stems not just from his alcoholism, but from my father's. I have to fix that, and through books and counseling, I'm working on it. 

So, when you see these stories of these women with "bad boys" who still want them, understand that there may be alot more to the story that you don't understand. Every situation is unique. Or it could be a simple matter of the women having crazy low self-esteem!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> it has helped shed some light on it, but there is still a puzzle that I will never fully understand.


 I can honesty sit here and say there are things my husband feels and/or would do -or not DO in certain circumstances that I could NEVER do, or hang with or continue to "feel" as he might. *Can any of us ever FULLY understand another?* We can try (& we should-always) but so often we have VERY different reactions to the same dilemma! Does it make one automatically right & the other wrong -in every circumstance? 

I think it is very healthy that you are asking these questions & determined to reflect in preparation for another relationship. And that you are not totally ragging on her, but admit to a few shortcomings. 

Obviously, her threshold of boredom/excitement or whatever she was "needing"/lacking ~~~ to you - it was not worth what she did, but for her, something deep inside was not being quenched enough to remain. *You will likely never understand it because you simply wouldn't have done what she did *! And I believe that ! 

You will have to rest in the fact she was "WEAKER" than you. Let's face it, she needed more from you (even though you was unaware) - than you Needed from her - to keep you Kosher with the marraige. But this is OK. As hard as it may be, Try to forgive her for her weaknesses. 

This will only help you move on.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

southbound said:


> If I decide to have another relationship, I just don't want to make the same mistake again, and being that I thought we had a great life, yet she was apparently unhappy, I am confused, so it would probably be easy for me to drive another relationship in the ground. I feel like this; if i walk outside in the rain, it's easy to understand how i got wet, but if the sun is shining, yet I notice I'm drenched when i walk in the house, that would be confusing. That's how I feel since my marriage has ended. people here have given me a lot of responses that I really appreciate, and it has helped shed some light on it, but there is still a puzzle that I will never fully understand.


I agree that you have to find out and understand who you are and figure out what kind of woman you want for your next relationship. 

The woman you are going to date will be different from your ex. What she likes will be different from what your ex likes. 

Dwelling in your past relationship won't help you move on! It only adds more pain on you! 

A lot of us have had failed relationships, it is not a big deal.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

julia71 said:


> Southbound... And it's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been in this situation, but it's not so easy to just not love a person anymore - even when they've done this to you. Yeah, I've thrown him out, yeah, we're seperated right now, yeah, I don't know if I'm still IN LOVE. But I do still love him in some way, and I'm not entirely ready to just throw my marriage away. He's stopped drinking, he's recognized his problem (finally!!) and he's trying. !


that's the confusing part to me about my wife. Your husband had major problems which I'm sure were very difficult for you, yet you say that it's not easy to just not love a person anymore. My wife, however, said she no longer loved me and in a nutshell, it was because I didn't make her feel special and was a bit boring.:scratchhead:


SimplyAmorous said:


> I can honesty sit here and say there are things my husband feels and/or would do -or not DO in certain circumstances that I could NEVER do, or hang with or continue to "feel" as he might. *Can any of us ever FULLY understand another?* We can try (& we should-always) but so often we have VERY different reactions to the same dilemma! Does it make one automatically right & the other wrong -in every circumstance?
> 
> I think it is very healthy that you are asking these questions & determined to reflect in preparation for another relationship. And that you are not totally ragging on her, but admit to a few shortcomings.
> 
> ...


Good points. I certainly did not need as much from her emotionally as she did me. Once she got my attention that things were seriously wrong in our relationship, I told her I would do anything she needed to work it out. I think she believed me, but she said it was too late, her feelings had left. 






greenpearl said:


> I agree that you have to find out and understand who you are and figure out what kind of woman you want for your next relationship.
> 
> The woman you are going to date will be different from your ex. What she likes will be different from what your ex likes.
> 
> ...


the problem is that I would very much like to have a woman with the characteristics that she had when she was her old self.
it's not that i want to copy her, it's just that she had the things I wanted up to the last few months. As for it not being a big deal, I appreciate the comment, but after 18 years and two kids, it's a very big deal to me.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

southbound said:


> An odd thing is that when we married, she was 19 and aside from her work, which she did work very hard, she was a couch potato. our big activity was renting movies on weekends, and we never went anywhere during the week, she was usually too tired. For years, we never went on vacations, we just stayed at home and she seemed content with that. So, I guess that made me think that is what she liked; the calm, laid back kind of life. We started going on vacations 4 or 5 years ago, but i guess I didn't realize that was so important. now I'm out the door partly because I never want to get out and do anything.:scratchhead:


Well, that explains a lot. She missed out on a lot of living in her late teens/20s...then had kids and now she's middle aged and saying "OMIGOSH!! I'm gonna die one day and I need to go out and live, live, live!!" So she ditches you and unfortunately, the kids too. Seems logical. 

Man, this must have smacked you across the back of the head like a 2x4..

I can't quite figure this out... Which of you had the low sex drive? :scratchhead:

My husband and I had a horrid sex life for years. We'd go weeks without having any. We'd go to bed completely clothed and ignore each other. We were like roommates. Then on Christmas Eve '08 we had huge discussion and set out to reconcile and change. It was like falling in love all over again. We decided to do everything together and for awhile it was grand. The sex was the best we'd ever had. Then we crashed and burned ... I'm still confused as heck...

So believe me, I feel your pain.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Thought you had it made... and boom!


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## ChrisInNOVA (Jan 3, 2011)

southbound said:


> This is probably just letting off steam, but I just don't get it. After reading this forum and living life, I realize that there are husbands who lie, cheat, are physically and verbally abusive, are lazy and wont help around the house, change a diaper, or get a job, etc., yet somehow, their wife still wants them. I know of a situation in my town where a man was making meth and got he and his wife both arrested, yet she still wants him. On the other hand, I am just the opposite of all that, yet I failed to do things that, according to my wife, made her feel special, and she divorced me:scratchhead: i never understood how a man could treat his wife like dirt, but she still wanted him, but I unintentionally fail on some relationship skills and I'm out the door.



I'm new here...but I am going to take a stab @ this.

Women will stick around for all kinds of bad behavior; however, neglect is usually the death bell for a marriage.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Thought you had it made... and boom!


Yeah, that's putting it mildly.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Well, that explains a lot. She missed out on a lot of living in her late teens/20s...then had kids and now she's middle aged and saying "OMIGOSH!! I'm gonna die one day and I need to go out and live, live, live!!" So she ditches you and unfortunately, the kids too. Seems logical.
> 
> Man, this must have smacked you across the back of the head like a 2x4..
> 
> ...


She was the one with the low sex drive. We had sex more often in the early years, but the frequency was never what I expected. We quickly got to once a week even in our first year of marriage, and that is when she otherwise seemed crazy about me. two weeks was not unusual, and six weeks during really dry times. Sex never seemed like a big deal to her, and she never wanted anything too spicy, just basics, and she always wanted to make me feel like a pig for wanting sex more often. She always had an orgasm, and sometimes more. there were times when I thought it was so good that it would cause her to want it more often, but that didn't happen. Being on vacation didn't help either. She was never willing to work on anything either. Shge never wanted to think that perhaps a woman at her young age not wanting sex was possibly not normal or that there could be help. She was always satisfied with things.


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