# I don't think my wife is "in love" with me



## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

Been married for 20 years. Wife was never really into sex. Sex was and still is very conventional. We do not do it frequently, and I have to initiate EVERY time. Not once in 20 years has she initiated. In bed, she likes getting oral, but never gives it (says it is not on her top 20 list).

Outside of the bedroom, I am constantly hugging, nuzzling up, etc. Many times, I get ZERO response, once and a while a light moan, and this about it.

Going to sleep, we cuddle, and again I am all over her. No response. She will not budge, move, touch back, nothing. Lies still until I ask for sex.

We talked a few weeks back. She said that sex is not a priority and she could do without, “not in her chemistry” as she put it. I told her that I need to feel desired, have my ego stroked. Since that talk, she has made no attempt to act on this info!!!!


I really feel like the comfortable old shoe and her best friend. 

I am at a loss…..


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

She's not in love with you. Unless you're doing a lot to maintain attraction, women are going to lose interest in you sexually and the act of sex generally over time. It's been shown that the longer a woman is in a stable relationship, the less interest she's going to have in sex. Until she meets somebody new. See, you've proven you're going to be around and sex is a weapon to be deployed as necessary to keep a man. You aren't going anywhere, so there's no need to open her missile silo.

If this is a new concept to you, you probably need to visit this guy's blog and buy his book.


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

joe_is_confused said:


> Been married for 20 years. Wife was never really into sex. Sex was and still is very conventional. We do not do it frequently, and I have to initiate EVERY time. Not once in 20 years has she initiated. In bed, she likes getting oral, but never gives it (says it is not on her top 20 list).
> 
> Outside of the bedroom, I am constantly hugging, nuzzling up, etc. Many times, I get ZERO response, once and a while a light moan, and this about it.
> 
> ...


There are many of us on here that are in the same shoes... You can try the MMSL route, it may help. I honestly believe, after being here on TAM for a while, that some people just do not need sex. They may do it at the beginning of the relationship, but it dies off. If you end up with the short straw, you really need to look inside yourself and decide what you need to be happy, then have a open conversation with your spouse, and make sure they know. Past that is up to you to reconcile within yourself.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea. Stop what you're doing. Pull a 180. Be nice and friendly, but stop the emotional feeding you're giving to her. Make her say, Whhoaaa...wtf?? 

Start working on you. Get sexy but don't be physically available. But like I said, be nice and friendly and fun. Just don't be sexual. Everything you're doing, just stop.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Read this:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

Is Joe still confused?




joe_is_confused said:


> Been married for 20 years. Wife was never really into sex. Sex was and still is very conventional. We do not do it frequently, and I have to initiate EVERY time. Not once in 20 years has she initiated. In bed, she likes getting oral, but never gives it (says it is not on her top 20 list).
> 
> Outside of the bedroom, I am constantly hugging, nuzzling up, etc. Many times, I get ZERO response, once and a while a light moan, and this about it.
> 
> ...


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

Mem - read thru your post, doesn't really apply much. 

As for some of the others. I do keep my self in shape, so i I feel i am at least physically pleasing.

I really really really think she is jut fine and happy with the we are really good friends who hold hands and cuddle and have sex a few times a year. 

A few have told me to tell her she needs to do certain things. My reply is that I do NOT want her doing things out of duty, I want her to do them because she desires me. You cannot fake that.

I am getting close to the point of putting this all down on paper and giving it to her. 

However, our youngest enters high school next year. Part of me just wants to trad water for 4 years, then walk away......


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What you have to do is give her emotional happiness in non sexual ways, and then make sure she understands that all her emotional happiness goes away if she doesn't open herself sexually toward you.


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

trick is, what is emotionally happy? I think what it is is that she holds the power position in the relationship, so she can set the parameters, set the rules. When i do take back some, she can tell and throws me a little bone (maybe comes up and gives me the unsolicited hug, maybe a few more kisses), but i can tell she can tell that i am not happy.

but once i happy up, she goes back to the status quo


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Read the book His Needs Her Needs. It will explain what emotional happiness is. Have her read it too. It will explain to her why sex is so important.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I know people here are trying to be helpful by suggesting different books to read to maybe bring about a great revalation in the LD partner. But in my honest opinion the vast majority already know how important physical intimacy is. They dont need to read about it. They understand what the consequences are. They just don't care.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Joe,

What's there to be confused about?

You KNOW you've given her all the power
You KNOW she won't meet your needs
You KNOW that you're checking out in 4 years if things don't change
You KNOW she is low drive and you are high drive
You KNOW she hasn't made ANY effort to meet your needs

I guess my question back to you is why the hel! are you planning on waiting for your youngest to get throug HS? Do you really want to wait and go through 4 more years of this hel!?


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

I do love her and want it to work, but I agree with the statement that she knows how important it is to me, but makes no attempt. Maybe I a delusional thinking it will work out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

joe_is_confused said:


> I do love her and want it to work, but I agree with the statement that she knows how important it is to me, but makes no attempt. Maybe I a delusional thinking it will work out
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No Joe, you are not delusional. sometimes we have to look at our lives, and the issues a divorce would cause- emotional stress, financial, etc., and decide if it's worth it. We might long for that connection with someone, but it's not guaranteed, is it? I know its hard to leave the known for the unknown, also.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

joe_is_confused said:


> I do love her and want it to work, but I agree with the statement that she knows how important it is to me, but makes no attempt. Maybe I a delusional thinking it will work out
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does she know that what you said about 4 years may be the deal breaker? I bet that would get her attention and also would help you from building up more resentment.

You love her and owe her that much. 

I have been in the same situation. I believe some partners are just low sex drive people. They eventually have little or no interest for whatever reasons, upbringing, inbreeding, who knows. They showed an interest in the beginning and then just drop off. Almost bait and switch, but not that simple.

Is counseling an option?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I know people here are trying to be helpful by suggesting different books to read to maybe bring about a great revalation in the LD partner. But in my honest opinion the vast majority already know how important physical intimacy is. They dont need to read about it. They understand what the consequences are. They just don't care.


There are a few possible reasons that they don't care.
1. They are not happy with what they are getting from the marriage, so don't feel particularly motivated to give
2. They don't know it is important to their partner at an emotinal level
3. They are just not giving partners (selfish takers).

What a man has to figure out is if his wife is #1, #2, or #3.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Hicks said:


> There are a few possible reasons that they don't care.
> 1. They are not happy with what they are getting from the marriage, so don't feel particularly motivated to give


Good list, but a slight edit to #1 might be...

1. They are not happy with what they are getting from the marriage, so don't feel particularly motivated to give...and they are pretty confident that that their spouse doesn't think enough of himself to do a damn thing about it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

joe_is_confused said:


> As for some of the others. I do keep my self in shape, so i I feel i am at least physically pleasing.


Keeping in shape is one of the keys, but only one. Attitude is the lion's share of maintaining attraction, combined with the fear that other women have their eyes on you as a potential mate or FWB. Women take their cues on what's attractive to them from other women. How does your wife react when other women give you the eye or strike up a conversation with you?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Hicks said:


> There are a few possible reasons that they don't care.
> 1. They are not happy with what they are getting from the marriage, so don't feel particularly motivated to give
> 2. They don't know it is important to their partner at an emotinal level
> 3. They are just not giving partners (selfish takers).
> ...


not to thread jack, but what if they are number 3?


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Joe - I am in a similar boat, my wife has said flat out that she is happy in our relationship, and the only thing troubling her is that I am not (that small thing). She is slightly more affectionate than your W as you described her, but I am pretty sure that if I said "let's never have sex again" she'd be ok with it. She'd be self-conscious about not being attractive - but ok with it. 

It is important that you make it clear (in a non-whiny, non-sappy way) that being desired is an emotional need that is not being fulfilled (you need to understand this too - emotional needs are the things necessary to keep a relationship together, and this is a need, not a want for you). Step one is to realize that she is not meeting this need and to analyze if she has the capacity to. If not, stop looking to her to do so. 

But, because she thinks differently from you (i.e., does not need sex to feel love), you must demonstrate that what you are feeling is real, and not just a cry out from a horny sex fiend. 

Obviously, presenting an ultimatum of "desire me or I'll leave", in those terms, is not likely to produce the desired result of her wanting you. But books, like His-Needs, Her-Needs, or Sex Starved Marriage can help her understand that there is a problem. Also, letting her know you are willing to walk if she does not at least try to address the problem is a start. Not walk to find someone else, walk to not be with someone who makes you feel so bad.


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

My only comment to all of the replies is this:

I have told her that this is a need i have and i am starving. 

SO WTF IS IT UP TO ME TO TAKE ACTION??????

WTF DOES SHE NOT DO IT!!!


Dammit, i am emotionally drained and spent from 20 years of trying. 

And ladies, no offense, sometime YOU need to take the initiative.........


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## Tigerman (Apr 5, 2012)

joe_is_confused said:


> Outside of the bedroom, I am constantly hugging, nuzzling up, etc. Many times, I get ZERO response, once and a while a light moan, and this about it.
> 
> Going to sleep, we cuddle, and again I am all over her. No response. She will not budge, move, touch back, nothing. Lies still until I ask for sex.





MEM11363 said:


> Read this:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html
> 
> Is Joe still confused?





joe_is_confused said:


> Mem - read thru your post, doesn't really apply much.


Sounds like the thermostat concept *is* pretty applicable to your situation. Not saying that dialing down the temperature is guaranteed to get your wife to respond more affectionately, but "constantly" being physical outside the bedroom and again being "all over her" in bed when she's clearly showing no response isn't going to suddenly flip a switch in her. It's only going to make her feel more uncomfortable. Step back, give her some space, stop giving off the "I so badly want some" vibe, give her a chance to feel the urge to take a bit of the initiative with showing affection, and see if she eventually comes around. She might just be feeling smothered and backing down your temperature can put things into better balance. Or maybe things are just beyond repair between you two. Dialing down the heat on your side is a good way of trying to find out what's really going on.


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh, let me ad this. I am a service member and took a billet that has me 2.5 hours away, so i am gone ALLL week. Figured when i was home on the weekend, the desire would be kicked up. Nope!!!!!!


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Joe,

She may realize you need sex but not understand what it means to you. If possible can you both go to counseling? Maybe she's starving from missing something and that's why she just doesn't do it. For every action there is a reaction. Maybe try changing your action to get a change in your reaction.

I'm not saying this is your fault. Maybe you're right and your wife isn't in love with you. But maybe she does still love you and you can change things. My suggestion is to go to counseling, read His Needs Her Needs and have her do the same. Take no action it gets worse or take a chance to make it better.


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

i have asked her what she needs, and she says she is satisified, just that sex is not important to her, not a priority......acknoweledges it is for me, but does not act on it


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

To answer Hicks post I was #1 and 2. Been married 14 years. Realized last year we were emotionally unattached. I wanted to keep my marriage. I read a couple of books. Made some changes to myself and how I treat my husband. Sex is now hard to count. Sometimes 2 - 3 times weekly, sometimes 4 - 5, sometimes twice in a day. I didn't feel in love with my husband because of lack of emotional affection from him and he didn't feel in love with me from lack of sex. Now when he's not around and I need some I'll masturbate thinking about him.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

She may not be able to put into words what she needs. Both of you should read the book.


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

put into words? I asked her "is it just hard to verbalize?" and she said, she is very happy with what we have......she likes how i cuddle up to her, rub her feet, cuddle when we go to bed. she gets all the physical attention she needs. And she will have sex, most of the time, only if i ask. and even that, she gets everything she wants, she gets to climax, then it is missionary for me. i get no oral, and very little extra kissing back from her


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Have you told her how unhappy you are? Tell her you're thinking of leaving, that you deserve somebody to love you back. Ask her to read the book. Sounds like you should read Married Mans Sex Life or other books people suggest. You're being too nice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just go get the His Needs Her Needs book. You don't understand what it takes to have a marriage where BOTH of you understand what it takes, CARE about what it takes, and are willing to DO what it takes. You need to read it TOGETHER.

Then print out the Love Buster questionnaire from marriagebuilders.com (avoid their forums), and tell her you need her to fill it out. You fill it out too and give it to her. Do the same with the Emotional Needs questionnaire. These three things will help you understand what it takes to KEEP a marriage intact.

Once you have done these three things, over about 2 weeks, sit her down when you're alone, no TV, and say "I am extremely unsatisfied in this marriage. Women need emotional intimacy to feel loved, but men need SEX to feel loved. If you don't desire me sexually, I do not feel loved. And I can't stay in a marriage where my partner doesn't care to make me feel loved. If you are not willing to care about me and my needs, I will start making plans to move out."

She NEEDS to hear this from you. Flat out, no equivocation, no second guessing, she needs to KNOW you will LEAVE if she doesn't change her priorities. 

Then it's her choice. She can either start caring, get mental help to HELP her start caring, or start preparing herself to live alone. That will be HER choice. You have already stated yours.

But nothing will change until you tell her the truth.

Caveat: There is a small possibility that she was abused as a child. If she was, 'wanting' sex may be difficult for her. You need to find out.


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

well, i know this is heading to an ultimatum. i know she is seeing a change in me since i have taken this billet. i dress nicer, been working out more, and other things as a result of just being around younger people and have more time on my hands. given some of the reading, i thought she would take this as that "threat" of losing her man, but no change in her attitude. If anything, she has maybe gotten more defensive........


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Repeat: read the book "married man sex life" and implement the MAP. Athol lays out the plan. 

You need to understand that women are generally not that interested in sex with one man after a few years of a relationship. Certainly not enough to get aggressive. Hell, they aren't generally aggressive except in the very early stages of a new relationship. Definitely ain't happening unless other women are looking to poach. Hate to bust your bubble, but that's the facts. Sure, there are exceptions, but that's all they are; exceptions.

How does your wife react when other women hit on you?


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## joe_is_confused (Jun 18, 2012)

Hit on me? since it has never happened that she witnessed i do not know. As for the sex interest....she has had the same level since we got married. would be content if we never did it. I guess part of me thought she would grow into wanting more


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> not to thread jack, but what if they are number 3?


You have her verbalize that no, she will never meet your needs even if you meet hers, then you either accept her for who she is and stop trying to figure out how to change it, or you leave.


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

If you haven't read the MMSL yet, do it and put it into practice before you go about throwing around ultimatums.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Joe - you've said your wife has heard and acknowledges that sex is a need for you, does she understand that it is an emotional need not a physical one? This is part of the point of Turnera's post (#29). However, before you go the ultimatum route, make sure she understands the difference between your physical and emotional needs and how not meeting the physical need is patently unfair (she'll say, but we do have sex, which she does because there is no justifiable excuse for not doing it) but not meeting an emotional need is plain hurtful and neglectful. She either (1) does not know she is doing this (and thinks that by occasionally having sex with you she is managing the issue), (2) cannot meet that need (just does not have feelings for you), or (3) won't meet that need (is simply cruel just because). 

I assume (1) is the answer, although it may be (2). To fix (1) requires undoing years of her misunderstanding male sexuality - they are horn dogs that would hump anything and have no feelings, and likely years of resentment borne from that misunderstanding - I am a piece of meat to him.

To fix (2), you need to walk, she needs to understand that she may lose or has lost you to reconnect or connect with the feelings she is not aware she has, if she has them.

To fix (3), you need a guillotine with a rusty blade and a soundproof basement.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read His Needs Her Needs WITH her. Then talk about what you're missing.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Time to change your tune. Stop all of the extras. Do your equal part in the relationship but cool way down. Stay very friendly and caring but back off. 

Give her as much as she gives you. Be patient and don't expect instant results. A good thing to do is to give yourself a time line so you can see the end of the tunnel. Then let things happen with no expectations except that you will give it your all for a set period of time. 

Read over MEM post again and adjust the concepts to fit your relationship. Also read HNHN and 5 LL. Make sure that there are no unresolved relationship issues. Be honest with yourself and take responsibility. 

Asking a woman if she is happy when you are talking about sex will seldom get an honest answer. You want to know how she is viewing the relationship and if she has hidden resentment, reasonable or not. You have to know what is there. 

It may be good to let her know in a subtle way that that the marriage is in trouble. Let her know that your efforts are an attempt to stay married but you are willing to let her go if the problems cannot be solved. 

If she says she has no problems, tell her she does. Your problems are hers just as her are yours. She can decide to work with you or decide that you two will not grow old together. . 

She is complacent, but she should know that her marriage is close to ending. You love her and you want her to know that she is walking towards a crevasse.

PS. No one can take away your power, you give it away. She does not have you by the balls, you but your junk in her fist, a very dangerous place to store them.


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## Sangfroid de Sade (Jun 14, 2012)

joe_is_confused said:


> Been married for 20 years. Wife was never really into sex. Sex was and still is very conventional. We do not do it frequently, and I have to initiate EVERY time. Not once in 20 years has she initiated. In bed, she likes getting oral, but never gives it (says it is not on her top 20 list).
> 
> Outside of the bedroom, I am constantly hugging, nuzzling up, etc. Many times, I get ZERO response, once and a while a light moan, and this about it.
> 
> ...


You are a good proven to a 111% accuracy to be in infinite supply. Consequently, demand is very...


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## sofie (Mar 20, 2011)

joe_is_confused said:


> Dammit, i am emotionally drained and spent from 20 years of trying.
> 
> And ladies, no offense, sometime YOU need to take the initiative.........


Hi Joe, In this online community men and women with this problem are about evenly divided.
I am a woman and I'm drained, down and fighting for every step, to get some love and sex from the man I love so much.
If it is any comfort..... you are not alone.

Keep reading this forum, some things are really helpful. It try and error but worth it.
I think when you give your wife an ultimatum and she gives you duty sex: Take it! They sometimes say "fake it till you make it".

Sofie


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