# The past and the future



## Dreadful Penny (Sep 5, 2019)

I am "Penny" (47) and I have a problem that my finish my M. This problem has been caused by my actions within a relationship that started back before i met my H. 

I left school at 18 and went into the world of finance, early on in this job I was able to secure a flat share with another employee, Pauline (PL), we soon became fast friends. Flash forward three years and I am now 21. One day I am sitting at my desk reading a running magazine (this was and remains a passion of mine) when "Dave" a senior manager walks by and makes a comment about an article he has read in his copy of the magazine and for a few minutes we discuss running, Dave is 39 and divorced.

The company has a deal with a local gym and i decide to join, when i arrive for my induction Dave is in the gym, we talk and after a few meets at the gym he asks if I want a coffee, this leads to going out for meals and drinks and then to regular sex. Now to be fair to Dave he did not use his position in the company to coerce me nor did our relationship give me any benefits within the company. The sex with Dave was the very best I have ever had and very varied.

Over the next few months we visited Rome, Barcelona and Paris and I had a wonderful time. We were both aware our relationship was FWB and was never going to lead to any more. After about ten months Dave said he and his ex wife (she had an affair) were going to give it another go as he was transferring to the companies German office and his ex and 10 year old daughter were going with him, no problem for me it had been good fun but i knew the age gap was far to much to be long term thing.

Shortly after Dave left Pauline moved back to Scotland to look after her sick Mum and we lost touch.

Forward 20 months and I met my future H "Steve". Steve was a nice guy, same age as me and two and a half years later we married followed after a while by two children. I love Steve very much and I know he feels the same but our sex life has always been vanilla (my choice) and there has been some resentment from Steve, don't know why I have not opened up with Steve but I never have and as I told him I am not into what he calls "full menu sex" he has mostly accepted it.

Two years ago Pauline come back into my life, she was now back in London and tracked me down, I was so pleased to see her and we socialised with our partners who became good friends.

Four weeks ago we had a drunken night out and went back to their place, PL said I have found something you may like and gave me a large photo, it was Dave and myself at a company Christmas party with PL and her then boyfriend. She says I bet you remember him your super stud didn't you two go through the Karma Sutra (sp) (i always told PL to much info) and in my drunken state I said we put fifty shades of grey to shame them my brain caught up with my mouth. My H was looking at me was a face like thunder.

We went home and i tried to talk to him but he said lets leave it till tomorrow. 

Next morning he leaves the house early and comes back about three hours later, I ask where he had been and he said i needed to clear my head and consider my thoughts, he then said I am going to ask some questions and I hope you will be truthful with me, he also said THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU DID BEFORE WE ME BUT WHAT YOU HAVE REFUSED ME DURING OUR MARRIAGE.

And so he asked me about the photo (he had photographed it on his phone) he said that dress your wearing (short, black and tight) looks amazing on you, tell me when have you ever looked like that for me, don,t answer you never have I get the bland version of you. He then went on to the sex acts and I answered truthfully, yes we did anal, oral, toys, etc to which he said and do you know anyone else you have refused all of them to? and in a small voice i said you.

He asked me to explain why a gave Dave "full menu sex" and not him and I cannot explain why but it is now tearing my M apart.

There is more but I will put it in a seperate post.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

The question is why you gave your husband that beta male sex when you
were capable and enjoyed the porn star sex before him?


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Yeah, it's going to go really badly, because you know the answer. It is just the answer will crush his soul.

You aren't sexually attracted to your husband, you never were, but his is nice, safe, and all the other things you wanted, so you married him. All the while knowing that you would only give him enough to keep him.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Also tell that friend to burn that photo. Then dump her because she just
blew up your marriage. Tell her thanks.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Penny i have to tell you that if i was your husband and i found that out...i would be extremely pissed as well...you have some serious fixing to do before he leaves you, because i would be thing of that. Why deny the one person you want to spend the rest of you life with the pleasure you offered another man who was just a FWB...that makes no sense. Imagine for a moment how your husband feels....


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## Dreadful Penny (Sep 5, 2019)

You are so wrong, when i met Steve I was earning considerably more than him and still earn a good salary plus bonuses, we also live in a house I inherited from my Grandmother before we married so it has nothing to do with him being a "pay packet".

I work in the London financial industry and anyone who knows this area of work will know it is "affair central" and I have never been tempted to stray. As for Dave it was always FWB and nothing more.

We met in a gym and we are both very fit and take part in many sporting activities together so he is not in any way plan B.

I would never ditch PL, we were all drunk and it was my stupid mouth that has caused the issue not her.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

You’re going to get raked over the coals here so before I say anything, I want to make a note
*Anyone is allowed to try something with a previous partner and decide they didn’t like it and take it off their menu. No one is obligated to preform sex acts just because you did them in the past.*

That said, yours isn’t a situation where you didn’t enjoy these things. I suggest you take some time to figure out why you don’t do them with your H. 

Attraction? Do you need more dominance? Is it a trust/comfort issue? 

There are some good sites (https://www.weshouldtryit.com/questions/)

You answer, then have him answer. Whatever you both say yes to will show up in the results. 

Then come up with a plan for how to get there.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Penny, I am not going to say you married him for money. However, you didn't marry him because you wanted to have sex with him.

It is a really messed up problem, on one hand, you are not obligated to do anything with him. However, how can he not see this as you not desiring him. I don't know there is a really good way to navigate this that is fair to both people.

I guess, why don't you want to do those things with him? You are going to have to dive deep into that question if you want to give him an answer that he will find acceptable.

The way you present the situation is that you did all sort of things, and enjoyed them all. The fact that you do not want to do them with your husband is going to be a big problem for him. If you hated it all, then it is not as much of an issue.


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## Dreadful Penny (Sep 5, 2019)

I have an idea why I refused Steve full menu sex. I did not care what Dave thought of me I was young and not in any relationship and I did what i wanted to do, when I met Steve there was an attraction that grew over the months and when we started to have sex I did care what he thought and did not want to come across as a **** and i walled off that part of me.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

That is a good start. So, how can you work on tearing down the walls? Can you communicate that to him?

Do you want those walls to come down?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I guess you need to get therapy to figure out why you behaved so poorly sexually with your husband


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Oops, didn't see this thread and posted in the other one. Looks like I guessed right. 

Few things .... you aren't just being dishonest with Steve you are being dishonest with yourself. You fell hard for Dave. You didn't think it was just a fwb situation did you? Then when Dave left to go back to his ex, you realized he was just using you for sex and never really cared about you the way you thought he did and the way you did for him. 

So Steve comes along, and maybe you do love him deeply, but you never opened that side of yourself because Dave really did a number on your self esteem and you couldn't bare the thought of going through the pain of all that with anyone else. So you shut him out properly from the beginning and now this has happened because of all that. 

Even if you didn't get drunk and open your mouth, eventually Steve would have left anyway, so you are fast tracking this process which is a good thing. His resentment stems from intuition knowing, to quote pearl jam lyrics, "she gave me all she wore" meaning you never gave yourself fully to him but instead just a cloaked version of yourself. Just your clothes, not the full you. Of course he felt that, how could he not?

I'll be honest, just about every guy or girl in the world, this would be a hard line zero chance of recovery issue. Personally, if we had kids together, you got about a 3% chance. Without kids, its somewhere between no chance and 1% for me. So theres may be a one in a million shot that you have less than 1% chance of recovery from this. That's the seriousness of your betrayal. It is betrayal to marry someone without giving yourself to that person, make no mistakes about it. Forget plan B, you have betrayed him deeply and this entire marriage is a sham. 

Counseling for you immediately. Why didn't you open up? You have to figure that out and work through your own pain that causes you to close off first to have any shot of a decent future, with or without Steve. This is coming from a habitual isolator. Its ruined so much of my life and I'm incredibly lucky God showers me with gifts endlessly that I do not deserve. My luck could run out at any moment and I'm working to change my life so it's never too late to start but that's where I would start. 

Beyond that, give Steve what he needs. He needs time and he probably needs to be away from you for a while. Maybe permanently and you have to accept that if that is the case. I'm wishing you strength in your journey of healing. It all starts with you and overcoming your fears.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldtruck said:


> Also tell that friend to burn that photo. Then dump her because she just
> blew up your marriage. Tell her thanks.


Her freind didn't blow up the marriage. Were the OP as attracted to, and as wild with, her husband as she was her previous fling, the marriage would have endured this easily. OP built her marriage on a poor foundation; no demolition needed, you could knock it over with a feather.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Penny Dreadful said:


> You are so wrong, when i met Steve I was earning considerably more than him and still earn a good salary plus bonuses, we also live in a house I inherited from my Grandmother before we married so it has nothing to do with him being a "pay packet".
> 
> I work in the London financial industry and anyone who knows this area of work will know it is "affair central" and I have never been tempted to stray. As for Dave it was always FWB and nothing more.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's wrong to accuse you of using your husband as a safe check, I don't know.

But I do know what isn't wrong is pointing out that
1. You had a man you knew was a temporary fling with whom you had the sexual time of your life 
and subsequently
2. Denied that same joy and respect with the man you lassoed, presumably for life. 

This is a BIG deal. BIG! There's simply no overstating the wrongness of this path and the hurt it causes.

Like all the other guys who have posted so far, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.


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## PreRaph (Jun 13, 2017)

Penny Dreadful said:


> I have an idea why I refused Steve full menu sex. I did not care what Dave thought of me I was young and not in any relationship and I did what i wanted to do, when I met Steve there was an attraction that grew over the months and when we started to have sex I did care what he thought and did not want to come across as a **** and i walled off that part of me.


But you H Steve said he wanted "full menu sex." Why did you refuse him?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> * It is betrayal to marry someone without giving yourself to that person,* make no mistakes about it. Forget plan B, you have betrayed him deeply and this entire marriage is a sham.


Just had to repeat that. Too compelling, and brilliant in its simplicity not to.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I would agree with you in he might have done some blame, if she hadn’t married him knowing all of this.

She had ample opportunity to bring this up, discus her likes, talk about desires, sex, needs, etc. there is no mention of that at all, just that she walled him off.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Moderator Note:

If you can't provide advice without venom, false assumptions, generalizations about the genders, or projection, then don't post.

Period.

Several posts will now be deleted, and any further infractions will result in bans.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Penny Dreadful would you be open to sexual exploration with your husband? 


I think you and your spouse would be greatly served by seeking help with a marriage counselor specializing in sex therapy. They can help you overcome your fear of rejection and they could help your spouse work through his hurt feelings. 


Personally I think you are both to blame for the situation you are in. You for your insensitivity (drunk or not, those words should have never left your mouth) and your spouse for settling for someone who was not meeting his sexual needs. It's time to put anger, hurt, and fear aside and work on the type of relationship you both want in the future.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Penny, I think there are a few of things you should look into:

First, I think you need to take a good look at your relationship with Dave. I don’t get the sense that you are cold enough to have not had real feelings for him. What if the eventual hurt from that ending, you feeling used, disrespected, and cheapened is what caused you to build the walls for your husband.

Second, you need to really find out what is at the foundation of those walls. Why they are there, why you keep your husband out.

Third, you need to be honest with your husband about what answers you find. If they are related to him, to you or both of you. It has to be honest and real if you want to fix this.

Finally, you guys are going to need the help of a good counselor.


On a personal note, imagining me and my wife in this scenario is gut wrenching.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Penny Dreadful said:


> He then went on to the sex acts and I answered truthfully, yes we did anal, oral, toys, etc to which he said and do you know anyone else you have refused all of them to? and in a small voice i said you.
> 
> 
> 
> He asked me to explain why a gave Dave "full menu sex" and not him and I cannot explain why but it is now tearing my M apart.


So while you may have mentioned it, I either missed it or it was not obvious to me. Did Steve ever ask for the "full menu sex"?

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Tasorundo said:


> Penny, I think there are a few of things you should look into:
> 
> First, I think you need to take a good look at your relationship with Dave. I don’t get the sense that you are cold enough to have not had real feelings for him. What if the eventual hurt from that ending, you feeling used, disrespected, and cheapened is what caused you to build the walls for your husband.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this completely. 

Another theory, if it wasn't Dave that ruined your self esteem it was something else earlier in life. If that is the case then Dave very well could have meant nothing. Being already broken, you knew what Dave was so you can say it was nothing but a fwb situation but even that wouldn't be fully truthful. In this other theory, you were using Dave just as much as he was using you. You didn't care about yourself and allowed Dave to use you, knowing what he was even, because you have lost your self respect somewhere along the lines. So you used Dave the way I would use drugs. As a temporary escape from your pain. 

Either Dave meant something and you are lying to yourself about the damage he did to you, or you mean nothing to yourself and you are lying to everyone else about it causing further damage to yourself as well as others. 

You have to figure out what caused this. What pain are you carrying that causes you to wall yourself off from others, and perhaps let users take advantage of you?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

PD,

I do appreciate your honesty posts like yours allow me to understand how my W felt.

Just as you walled off part of yourself to Steve perhaps Steve loved & cherished you enough to respect your boundaries believing them to be genuine and accepting you unconditionally. 

So he accepted those limits as a sacrifice to you and your children.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> @Penny Dreadful would you be open to sexual exploration with your husband?
> 
> 
> I think you and your spouse would be greatly served by seeking help with a marriage counselor specializing in sex therapy. They can help you overcome your fear of rejection and they could help your spouse work through his hurt feelings.
> ...


I completely agree with @Lila here. The dynamics of your marriage will be strained unless you can fully understand as a couple what has just happened in relation to the past. Here are a few things:



Your husband does not understand why you would deny him something that you freely did for other men. 
You probably understand your boundaries as a result of previous relationships, but at the same time you may have omitted discussing that with your husband so he can better understand and know you. 

I have had some various kinks over the years and I am open to my wife about them. She will usually request that things remain vanilla, simple, or natural as she struggles to enjoy things when something gets complicated or distracting. She will however allow me to at least try things and then explain how she feels about it afterwards. THIS process has helped me better understand my wife as well as my own desires within the context of our marriage. My wife just wants things as simple and as natural as possible. We can do other things, but it becomes my responsibility to integrate that into our lovemaking in a way that is seamless and simple. 

I would encourage you to allow your husband to go through a similar process with you. This way things are not technically "off the menu" but it allows him to understand that overall things are best if certain things are left off the menu. 

However at this point his mind is spinning and he may not be able to do this respectfully. If he is angry and harboring resentment (which it seems like he obviously is), doing new things may become a passive aggressive act of revenge. 

Having said that, if you were worried about damaging the relationship, seems like the damage is done. So just open up, be yourself, and don't hide anything anymore!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Penny, how do you feel at this moment? What is it that you want to happen? All though people have fragile ego's. It could be something both of you can over come. Do seek counseling to find out what it will take both of you to move forward. And if you find either you or your husband cannot come to a new understanding then, you both can make decisions of your next move.

Sometimes you have to have your feet in the fire, before you can make a decision but when you both do it will be something one of you can live with. 

Tilted


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Moderator Note:. 

This is NOT a thread on infidelity. Please refrain from posting similarities to such.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Penny Dreadful said:


> I am "Penny" (47) and I have a problem that my finish my M. This problem has been caused by my actions within a relationship that started back before i met my H.
> 
> I left school at 18 and went into the world of finance, early on in this job I was able to secure a flat share with another employee, Pauline (PL), we soon became fast friends. Flash forward three years and I am now 21. One day I am sitting at my desk reading a running magazine (this was and remains a passion of mine) when "Dave" a senior manager walks by and makes a comment about an article he has read in his copy of the magazine and for a few minutes we discuss running, Dave is 39 and divorced.
> 
> ...


He loves you. He wants you. He wants all of you because he loves you and is greatly attracted to you. That's clear. He seems like a good man. 

Note, I am not saying you are a bad woman. That is not my call. In fact, I don't believe you are a bad woman or a bad wife. I think it's something else. 






Penny Dreadful said:


> You are so wrong, when i met Steve I was earning considerably more than him and still earn a good salary plus bonuses, we also live in a house I inherited from my Grandmother before we married so it has nothing to do with him being a "pay packet".
> 
> I work in the London financial industry and anyone who knows this area of work will know it is "affair central" and I have never been tempted to stray. As for Dave it was always FWB and nothing more.
> 
> ...




Part of it is the difference in incomes between Dave and Steve. Dave could take care of you and Steve cannot. Let me explain. 

Dave made considerably more money than you and could provide more. Steve makes, meh, around the same or a bit less. So, starting from difference between your pay and Steve's, how much extra does Steve have than you? My impression is not much, or less. 

That's a big issue. I'm not saying you are a gold digger. I'm saying that Steve's income doesn't make you feel safe and protected. It doesn't make you feel he is dominant. After having a man who is dominant and makes you find your natural self, it isn't as attractive when you find an equal. Truly, I think this is natural. 

Being rational, you chose Steve to be your husband because you realized he is a good man and loves you dearly. You knew he would take good care of you and that does allow you to feel attraction for him. However, it isn't going to get your motor running at full speed. 

Add to that, you don't want your husband to think you are less than him and so, you won't, even if you had that desire, take the first step in introducing something new into the sexual relationship. All normal and natural. Happens many times. 

If, by chance, Steve would take the initiative, you might be open to some similar things you've experienced before, but you would never open up enough to make him think you have experience. Seems normal to me. 

I doubt you will ever do all of the things you did with Dave. Steve will never get your motor running that well. He is a different man. However, you knew Steve was the better man for a safe marriage. 

In a few years, you will be satisfied with your life. I don't know about Steve. The can of worms has been opened. It's too late in life for Steve to feel he has not been cheated. He may just be at the stage in life where he doesn't care enough to make it a divorce worthy issue. He may just be hurt the rest of his life and seem cold around you. 

I guess he feels he doesn't know you at all, after knowing you for so long? Have you discussed any of this with him? I'm just doing some guessing here, from what I can gather. It may be completely wrong. I hope not. 

I'd be tempted to run, not walk, to marriage counseling. This has to be frightening for you, too, if you love him dearly. If you love him, but are only satisfied, I imagine you will make excuses and try to sweep it under the rug by offering a little more in the way of sex, but with a feeling of disgust in your heart. I hope I am wrong. 

One of the most interesting threads I've read in a while, I know it's your life so I am taking it seriously, but I am also curious how you and Steve will work on this. I'm thinking the charade will continue, just because of so much time being passed and the stage of your lives. I'm really curious and hope you continue to post, simply blocking out those members you don't want to deal with. Maybe a mod can explain how to do that?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

After thinking a little, is it possible that part of your reason for being more open with Dave was that you were free to do as you pleased, and being new at that job and young you sort of figured you could not lose with him. Whereas, with Steve, being you are under a sort of contract and your life will be changed if things don't work out, you are reserved and careful because you know he will always be there for you?

Making me think. I am no expert, just curious as hell and eager to learn.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Often in threads like this, people take the side of the woman who gleeful gave all to her bad boy lovers, then denied all but vanilla intercourse to H.

Perhaps the difference here is that she enjoyed those acts with her ex. If she hated it but went along with it, and now has enough self-respect to have boundaries, that would be different.

Giving all of yourself openly and joyfully to your ex, while giving your H only a ridiculously cramped and constricted version of yourself, is wrong.

This is different than waiting X dates to have sex to “prove” you aren’t easy, even though you have had ONSs. That’s just a game. This is a lifetime.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

A man often wants a “Madonna/*****.” That is, a prim and proper virginal woman in public but a ***** in the bedroom with him.

I think you’re mistaken to believe that you “prove you are a good woman” by denying certain sex acts to your H. He wants a nasty girl in the bedroom. He will accept a prudish woman, but when he finds out that are truly a nasty girl but only give him vanilla, it’s likely to be interpreted as a huge betrayal.

You should explain your misunderstanding H. Make sure he understands that it wasn’t that you’re not attracted to him and you DO want to do more things, it’s just that you didn’t want him to lose respect for you.

The problem isn’t that you got drunk and told the truth. The problem was that you’d lied to H for all these years. If you’re only sorry that you got caught, that’s not enough.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> @Penny Dreadful would you be open to sexual exploration with your husband?
> 
> 
> I think you and your spouse would be greatly served by seeking help with a marriage counselor specializing in sex therapy. They can help you overcome your fear of rejection and they could help your spouse work through his hurt feelings.
> ...


I agree with the first part. Not so much with the second, about "settling" for someone who couldn't meet their sexual needs. 

Relationships are both unique and dynamic. There may be a different you or I that emerges with a different significant other. Most of us are somewhat adaptive to our environment. And everyone can be happy with that adaptation. In some cases you may bring out the best in someone else. Others, the worst. So who she was, how she acted with someone else might be different than today. She's older, and the relationship partner is different.

The dynamic part? Information emerges that changes the view of that other person. What was the physical aspect of the relationship? Why did different things make you happy then, than now? As you learn more about the past partners, more questions might emerge. Things suddenly change because there are now comparisons being made that weren't thought about before. That's the dynamic part. It's inevitable that situations will come up, but relatively unknown ahead of time how they'll play out.

This is why I believe it is so important for many (raising my hand here!) to go through a really thorough vetting of anything that might someday cause grief to your spouse, if discovered. Because a lot of secrets we think we'll carry to the grave end up being found out. And further, you don't want to be put into the position of wondering if you should tell your spouse about something that they might react badly to, because you could end up feeling guilty and possibly detached, and your partner may very well be able to read this.

I cannot emphasize this enough- there is no time limit for when a discovery could make a spouse question if they might have been a Plan B and potentially re-write their relationship in a negative manner. It happened to me; I'm dealing with it now, 42 years later. I never thought I'd be in individual counseling, nor marriage counseling. 

It's funny that the common theme in a thread I started about reading my wife's diary and discovering an immediately-prior past that had been hidden from me... the common theme was, why should it matter, it was 40+ years ago. But I see more and more threads referencing damage done by past lies and omissions. For some it will be no big deal. For others, a very big deal. You, the individual making the decision to keep a secret or not (not you, Lila!!!), are NOT able to predict the outcome of such a secret years down the road. So don't do it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Casual Observer, I welcome you to start a new thread to discuss the topics you mention in your post above. I don't wish to derail this thread and turn it into a debate.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Penny Dreadful said:


> I am "Penny" (47) and I have a problem that my finish my M. This problem has been caused by my actions within a relationship that started back before i met my H.
> 
> I left school at 18 and went into the world of finance, early on in this job I was able to secure a flat share with another employee, Pauline (PL), we soon became fast friends. Flash forward three years and I am now 21. One day I am sitting at my desk reading a running magazine (this was and remains a passion of mine) when "Dave" a senior manager walks by and makes a comment about an article he has read in his copy of the magazine and for a few minutes we discuss running, Dave is 39 and divorced.
> 
> ...


Just to start and be clear where I'm coming from, this would be a relationship extinction level event for me.

You have remarkably mismanaged your sexual relationship with Steve.

You know Steve has been resentful over your sex life, you haven't bothered to figure out why you're not open to things with him, and now you walked right into rubbing it in his face that you offered all of it and more to another guy.

So if I were Steve, I'd be saying to myself that if I loved her, I should free her to go find another Dave and if I loved myself, I'd free myself to go find myself someone that wants me and is open with me. It's very much one thing to say "I tried things with Dave and didn't like them" but another to say "He was the best sex I ever had but I won't even try those things with you."

You say you cannot explain it, but you know very well why you're refusing Steve and didn't refuse Dave. You're not even being honest with us, here. You settled for Steve when it comes to sex. Maybe not with other things, but you seem pretty "meh" about sex with Steve and you seem pretty thoughtless about sex in general and sex with Steve in particular.

I highly suggest you two get into counselling, I suggest you prepare for a checked out husband or a full blown divorce, and the potential lifetime of sexual issues with Steve... which will all be your fault.

Ya blew it. Big time.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Penny Dreadful said:


> I have an idea why I refused Steve full menu sex. I did not care what Dave thought of me I was young and not in any relationship and I did what i wanted to do, when I met Steve there was an attraction that grew over the months and when we started to have sex I did care what he thought and did not want to come across as a **** and i walled off that part of me.



So penny are you willing to destroy your marriage over this....you have an opportunity to explore the menu with a man who loves you and is open minded...you should be blessed


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lostinthought61 said:


> So penny are you willing to destroy your marriage over this....you have an opportunity to explore the menu with a man who loves you and is open minded...you should be blessed


If it were me, any attempt to explore and be open now would be fraught with doubt and feel spectacularly unnatural and forced. Like that she's only doing it with me to appease me out of fear, not because she wanted to. Dave would be a ghost in the room any time we had sex.

I've been a Dave. I've also been a Steve.

I'd much rather be a Dave than a Steve, and I don't know if I could be a Steve pretending to be a Dave after all this. 'd much rather find someone that wanted me like she wanted Dave than to settle for her pretending to want me like she wanted Dave.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Just had to repeat that. Too compelling, and brilliant in its simplicity not to.


Game recognize game. 

Penny, the fact that you are coming here seeking counsel is a good first step. Take what advice you need from this thread and leave the rest, BUT do not dismiss the rest. Sometimes it takes us too long to see the error of our ways. Ego ever drives us to justify our terrible actions. I belive in you! You will find your way as long as you keep seeking it. Search yourself. Get help from a professional who you can dig deeper with into who and what you are and what caused this desire to shut others out. You need to heal this part of yourself first. Bandaids and quick fixes don't work. 

You are young, and life isn't short, it's long and full of pain. But it's also filled with love and wonder and excitement and beauty and you have just lost your way. Seeking the path is the first step and you are a good person, not a monster. A monster never finds their way to this site looking for answers. It has never happened and never will. Hold that thought in your heart as you surge forward on your journey. Keep pushing. Find out what it is that caused all of this and work to flush out that poison inside. You can do it!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Marduk said:


> If it were me, any attempt to explore and be open now would be fraught with doubt and feel spectacularly unnatural and forced. Like that she's only doing it with me to appease me out of fear, not because she wanted to. Dave would be a ghost in the room any time we had sex.
> 
> I've been a Dave. I've also been a Steve.
> 
> I'd much rather be a Dave than a Steve, and I don't know if I could be a Steve pretending to be a Dave after all this. 'd much rather find someone that wanted me like she wanted Dave than to settle for her pretending to want me like she wanted Dave.


It would be forced. Her husband needs to choose. I think he will choose to stay. I also think she is gone from this thread, never to return.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I also don't believe now is the time to work on getting all sexual for your husband. That's quick fix talk, not long lasting solution and true healing talk.


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## Dreadful Penny (Sep 5, 2019)

No I am still around but H and I are just back from a training ride for Sundays Richmond park duathalon. Back again tomorrow. Thanks for all your posts.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

As it has been mentioned you really do not "owe" your husband the same 'menu' that you had on offer before - no matter who the other person was or what the relationship was.

The biggest issues (also mentioned before) is why you didn't offer your husband the full menu. You stated that you didn't want him to see you as a **** and while that may be truth, it also hurts very much from his point of view.

This is a tough topic as you really do not "have" to provide the full menu to your husband - but if you did enjoy the various acts before and your husband actively asked to try some of these acts - the big question is why not enjoy these acts with your husband??

You have the best of both worlds - a loving husband, great marriage and lots of fun play between to consenting, in-love people.


While you may not understand what your husband is going through, he does see this as a huge betrayal of sorts.

He is likely feeling why he is not worth your effort to try these "full menu" acts with him. He is loyal and supportive (guessing here but you didn't say otherwise), seems to be in the marriage, took you at your word about not being offered the "full menu" and was moving on despite not getting all he wanted from the "menu".

This is the biggest hurdle you and your husband need to get over.

There are a few theories suggested to you and some advice. You need to find out within yourself why there is such a difference and see if your husband can truly understand things from your point of view.

You also need to see things from his point of view in order to fully feel the impact of what this knowledge has done to his feelings.

Hope things work out for you.

Good luck.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Marduk said:


> If it were me, any attempt to explore and be open now would be fraught with doubt and feel spectacularly unnatural and forced. Like that she's only doing it with me to appease me out of fear, not because she wanted to. Dave would be a ghost in the room any time we had sex.
> 
> I've been a Dave. I've also been a Steve.
> 
> I'd much rather be a Dave than a Steve, and I don't know if I could be a Steve pretending to be a Dave after all this. 'd much rather find someone that wanted me like she wanted Dave than to settle for her pretending to want me like she wanted Dave.


Then if that is the case she is better off telling her husband to get his own FWB, allow the ability the pleasure of full menu with someone else


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Then if that is the case she is better off telling her husband to get his own FWB, allow the ability the pleasure of full menu with someone else


Would you suggest this if the genders were reversed? This isn't healthy. 

If he accepted a relationship with no anal sex he can't suddenly decide he's going to find a FWB who will do it just because he found out the OP did it with a previous partner. 

I've done a few things I have no interest in doing again, doesn't give anyone the right to have sex outside the relationship. 
I've explored a lot, with many different people. Most people could reasonably call me a ****. 
I still get to choose who I do what with. Nothing about my past changes what I can and can't say no to. Period. Ever. 

The issue is the WHY she didn't want to do them with him. 
Not that she owes him, or he deserves, sex acts. 

He married her accepting the menu. No one is entitled to the "full menu" from anyone.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

what kind of advice can anyone really give here.
Penny, you need to let Steve decide what he wants to accept or reject now that he knows the whole story. From the form of his questioning he really doesn't need to know how why or what, he knows. He is just deciding if there is a way for him to live with it.
I can't say more without being banned.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Penny Dreadful said:


> I have an idea why I refused Steve full menu sex. I did not care what Dave thought of me I was young and not in any relationship and I did what i wanted to do, when I met Steve there was an attraction that grew over the months and when we started to have sex I did care what he thought and did not want to come across as a **** and i walled off that part of me.


Respectfully.

I suggest this answer is a rationalization that gets you off the hook for this, and while possible, I very much doubt it's true.

Why?

Because I've been both a Dave and Steve, that's why. Steve was asking for what Dave got, you liked giving Dave what Dave got, and yet you closed the door to Steve here.

Let me be clear: you do not have to offer everything you were willing or happy to do with other men to Steve. Absolutely not. But I do think you should be more honest and introspective here for both your cases.

Steve obviously isn't shaming you over what you did with Dave. He obviously wants what you did with Dave. And yet you claim you don't want to do it because you don't want to feel shamed by Steve? Nuh-uh. Too convenient, too inconsistent, and does not hit home for me.

If you were to say that you lacked the chemistry or attraction with Steve that you had with Dave, I'd say that made sense.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Penny Dreadful said:


> No I am still around but H and I are just back from a training ride for Sundays Richmond park duathalon. Back again tomorrow. Thanks for all your posts.


Let me just caution you as well about providing too much personal information on a forum that's fairly publicly accessible, especially when it's of such a personal nature.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Penny Dreadful said:


> He asked me to explain why a gave Dave "full menu sex" and not him and I cannot explain why but it is now tearing my M apart.
> 
> There is more but I will put it in a seperate post.


Sorry this happened, I think unless your H is a really weak man, your marriage is over. 

I would not have come back or put up with this in the first place. 

No man wants to be the sexual plan B. 

Sorry...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Penny Dreadful said:


> You are so wrong, when i met Steve I was earning considerably more than him and still earn a good salary plus bonuses, we also live in a house I inherited from my Grandmother before we married so it has nothing to do with him being a "pay packet".
> 
> I work in the London financial industry and anyone who knows this area of work will know it is "affair central" and I have never been tempted to stray. As for Dave it was always FWB and nothing more.
> 
> ...


Dear, you are so completely clueless. 

Wow...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Penny Dreadful said:


> I have an idea why I refused Steve full menu sex. I did not care what Dave thought of me I was young and not in any relationship and I did what i wanted to do, when I met Steve there was an attraction that grew over the months and when we started to have sex I did care what he thought and did not want to come across as a **** and i walled off that part of me.


This is the perfect answer, and one that I would have 'guessed'. 

You need to relay this information and honest answer to Steve.

He is understandably pissed. 

Perform make-up sex over and over until you get it 'right'.

I love your Avatar name. That show was one of my favorites, imagine that.

Uh, one more thing.....
I hope this answer is an honest one. 

It needs to be, it must be, it cannot be else, so help you God.

Unless, you did not really enjoy that sort of sex. I, we hope not.
For Steve's sake.

OK, now get to the humble pie actions.



The Typist I-


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Many women think it’s a compliment that she makes a man wait for months to have sex, and then only begrudgingly gives him vanilla sex. He’s someone special, while hot sexy guys they crave and love having sex with “mean nothing.”

To many men, it’s an insult. You saved your best sex for a guy who wanted nothing from you but sex. Steve has to give you a whole lot to just get crumbs. Dave didn’t need to give you anything to get the whole feast.

You can say you don’t look at Steve as just a wallet, as you make your own money. I’m sure that’s true. But you likely picked him for characteristics such as kindness and reliability, not sexiness. You gave your best to Dave, and then the leftovers to Steve. You picked boring old Steve because he will help clean the house and provide for children. You picked bad boy Dave because he was sexually attractive and amazing.

Although it may be wrong, your actions suggest that Dave is, in your estimation, the greater man in every way that matters to men. Steve is your Plan A at being boring boring and reliable, which is far worse than being Plan B... it means Steve is quite pathetic and not a real man in your eyes.

If a man isn’t sexually attracted to his wife, so he has wild sex with a woman on the side, does that mean his wife is Plan B? Not really. She’s Plan A for cooking, cleaning, and raising babies, but she’s Plan Z for sex.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> This is the perfect answer, and one that I would have 'guessed'.
> 
> You need to relay this information and honest answer to Steve.
> 
> ...


I'm still quite dubious on this one for two reasons.
1. If someone who got really freaky in the past in any way associates that with ****ty behavior, they will generally say that they didn't have self respect at that time and they didn't really enjoy it. But to this day, Penny says that was great sex. 
2. Even more damning is that her husband has specifically pushed for wilder sex, and has been disappointed in not getting it, so he's clearly not going to think less of her if it arrives.

No, this sounds a lot more like guilt assuaging rationalization to me.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Before this thread expands due to the 'ahem' nature of the post ... first, welcome to TAM! We're not happy until you're not happy!

Second, lets condense the nonsense.
What questions can we answer for you here? 
What do you want to do to try and fix this? 
What are you willing to do to try and fix this?

Can tell you patently that your husband is going to expect you to do the heavy lifting on this one. And ... if resentment was already present? Your inconvenient truth just ramped it up by a factor of 5. Resentment is the fundamental corrosive element in almost every dying marriage. It causes respect to hemorrhage and bleed out. Once that happens the relationship is done. Finished. Irrecoverable. 

In this case, either one of you are subject to it. Him for the knowledge he now has. You, because he will always remind you of it.

You need a professional. Full stop.

You are certainly welcome to post here. But I question how much folks here can help your circumstances.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Let’s stop talking around it and ask the straight question. That way we won’t need to speculate.

*Do you find Steve as sexy and sexually exciting as you did Dave?*

Be honest.

Additionally, you were 21 when you had hot, wild sex with Dave, a man in a senior position of power, who had more money than you, and who was old enough to be your father.

*How old were you when you started dating Steve?* 

Were you between suspect ages of 25 and 32? That is, were you at the age where women stereotypically “retire from sex” and pick a boring, stable, sexually unattractive “nice guy” to marry and have babies?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It's been predominantly men posting responses here, making a lot of assumptions, giving opinions based on those assumptions. 

I believe OPs reason for the difference in the kind of sex life she had with the guy she was involved with before she met her husband and the kind she has with her husband.

Sometimes people have different sexual relationships at different times in their life, and have personal views about different sex acts and what they mean. The FWB guy from work was just a FWB going nowhere. He was a guy twice OPs age she was having fun with, exploring things with, it was never serious. She did some things *she thought were ****ty*, and decided-- when she met the man who would become her husband --that she didn't want to have a sex life like that with him.

All the talk about OPs husband being beta, plan B, someone she's not attracted to...I don't believe are helpful and are a lot of projection.

Penny, I think you should try very hard to explain to your husband how the difference is due to your feelings about sex how it had nothing to do with your attraction to him. Keep trying to explain. If you are sincere, I hope he will begin to understand it had nothing to do with any kind of lacking feelings for him.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Got to be honest as a man I don't think there is anything you can do. I don't think most men would be able to recover from that. I read a post on another thread the other day. This from a woman mind you -



> men use sex in much the same way that women use tenderness and romance...it is a main avenue by which they feel that your love is communicated to them. So if you can imagine finding out that your husband has been spending time with another woman, investing himself in preparing elaborate romantic dates and doing all that great couples snuggling and secret sharing, and when you confront him about never doing that for you he just tells you he doesn't "see" that being a part of your relationship...it would feel like a rejection, right?


If you are a husband who dedicated your whole life to your wife, waited your whole life for that one person, and gave your sexuality to them as a gift, only to find out that she didn't give you what she gave another man in a relationship that we just for fun and basically meant nothing, how could you possibly move forward. I would just assume my wife wasn't attracted to me and just married me because I was safe and basically stability. 

Imagine promising to only eat one person's cooking. Just meals from them for the rest of your life. (Which is what you do when you give someone your celibacy) Then they cook you pork and beans every night. But you accept it because you just think that that is all they are capable of cooking and you love them. Then a friend shows up decades later and makes jokes about these gourmet meals you used to make for someone else. You flip out and they say, well I don't really think about cooking good meals for you because we are home and cooking gourmet meals is a lot of work. Any smart person would just think you were full of crap. Like you didn't realize? How? Plus you would think, this person purposely lied to me about how good a cook she was so she doesn't have to do it. How lazy is that. Sorry that's just ****ed up. 

Really can't imagine anything worse.

I also think anything you do now would basically be suspect. No one wants pity sex. It's a shame no one taught you this.

I mean you really don't understand this? I something else going on here because it just doesn't make sense. What is the real deal with you and sex?


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Penny Dreadful said:


> Four weeks ago we had a drunken night out and went back to their place, PL said I have found something you may like and gave me a large photo, it was Dave and myself at a company Christmas party with PL and her then boyfriend. She says I bet you remember him your super stud didn't you two go through the Karma Sutra (sp) (i always told PL to much info) and in my drunken state I said we put fifty shades of grey to shame them my brain caught up with my mouth. My H was looking at me was a face like thunder.
> 
> We went home and i tried to talk to him but he said lets leave it till tomorrow.
> 
> ...


PL is not a friend of you, your marriage or your husband.

Her showing that photo and stating how you and Dave did the Karma Sutra book did the
damage. The cat was already out of the bag at that point. Your reply was just icing on the cake.

Your dress in that photo was just adding another layer to that cake. You looked real good in it,
but you always refused to look that good for your husband. 

You cannot understand why your husband is mad.
You never dressed this hot for your husband when he asked you to.
You gave your husband beta male sex when he asked for porn star sex
only for him to find out that you gave Dave porn star sex for 2 years.

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free is an old saying.

You gave Dave the cream.

You let your husband buy the whole farm then tell him no cream for you.
I am only giving you 0% fat milk.

Your husband feels that you lied to about being able to dress sexy and 
give him porn star sex.

He feels mad because he gave you everything and only got part of you.
While Dave gave you nothing and he got everything, the works, the
deluxe treatment.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

PreRaph said:


> But you H Steve said he wanted "full menu sex." Why did you refuse him?


It's a typical womanish behavior, who wants to act sexually-different for her H.

With some random person, the woman doesn't care what he thinks and she's a crazy sexual beast in bed. She gets to be herself, let it freely and totally enjoy it! After all, she might not meet him again! So who cares??

When it comes to H, some women think they gotta act and be more "serious" so that they won't get judged by the man who is supposed to be a lifetime partner. Some women are also afraid that their "serious" partner will judge them if they are too sexual in bed. 

I had a friend who once told me that her long-time BF made her feel very very insecure and "dirty" and offended because she initiated new sex positions ... and his reaction was like: _* "What's this?? Where did you learn this?? How come you know this stuff? Who have you been dating?? *_ :| "

...he had a look on his face as if what she was doing was shameful and disappointing for me. He wanted her to be a prude in bed.

So, sometimes, women are not to be blamed because men act on different standards with different women.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Penny Dreadful said:


> .......... Steve was a nice guy,..........................


Throughout her long post, this was the most important sentence. 

This says it all. 


Plain and simple.

the moment she thought of that particular aspect of Steve, she already KNEW..., vanilla was coming.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I guess you need to get therapy to figure out why you behaved so poorly sexually with your husband


She doesn't need therapy. She already knows why. 

We already know why.

Subconsciously, Steve knows why.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Her freind didn't blow up the marriage. Were the OP as attracted to, and as wild with, her husband as she was her previous fling, the marriage would have endured this easily. OP built her marriage on a poor foundation; no demolition needed, you could knock it over with a feather.


I find it VERY disrespectful that her friend had to do that to OP, while her H was already there. 

I don't buy the "drunk" argument. Plain disrespect.

Throw that friend away, OP.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Marduk said:


> If it were me, any attempt to explore and be open now would be fraught with doubt and feel spectacularly unnatural and forced. Like that she's only doing it with me to appease me out of fear, not because she wanted to. Dave would be a ghost in the room any time we had sex.
> 
> I've been a Dave. I've also been a Steve.
> 
> I'd much rather be a Dave than a Steve, and I don't know if I could be a Steve pretending to be a Dave after all this. 'd much rather find someone that wanted me like she wanted Dave than to settle for her pretending to want me like she wanted Dave.


The best post of this thread, so far! 


What's the point of being a sexual beast with Steve, now that he mentions it and kind of "forces" you to be something/someone you can't be with him? 

You have the "beast" in you OP, but it doesn't come out naturally with Steve.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Livvie said:


> It's been predominantly men posting responses here, making a lot of assumptions, giving opinions based on those assumptions.
> 
> I believe OPs reason for the difference in the kind of sex life she had with the guy she was involved with before she met her husband and the kind she has with her husband.
> 
> ...


Exactly this. I have had different sex lives with different people and it has nothing to do with attraction or alpha/beta crap. 

There's all kinds of reasons- Age, situation, comfort level, my confidence, relationship type, etc. 

Keep in mind that men do this too, have wild sex with women they don't consider marriage material but then settle down with a "good girl" they are more vanilla with.

Discussion is needed but the over the top anger and projection is not.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Would you suggest this if the genders were reversed? This isn't healthy.
> 
> If he accepted a relationship with no anal sex he can't suddenly decide he's going to find a FWB who will do it just because he found out the OP did it with a previous partner.
> 
> ...


No one is saying that she HAS to do anything.

BUT, I hope no one is saying that her husband must be happy about it.

Two things of note: She said that she did these past things happily and enjoyed them at the time. She has not said that she no longer interested in doing these things. It seems as if she just has no interest in doing them with her husband.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Exactly this. I have had different sex lives with different people and it has nothing to do with attraction or alpha/beta crap.
> 
> There's all kinds of reasons- Age, situation, comfort level, my confidence, relationship type, etc.
> 
> ...


That may be true but if you are not being fully honest about who you are and giving your best to your spouse then you can't say you are good one. The men who do that suck too, I would feel just as bad for a women who was married them. 

Being married to someone who is like that is a tragedy, man or women.

Somehow only sex works like this. Let's think about other things that are basic parts of marriage and use the same logic.

Wife: Husband I need you to talk to me more, it's part of what makes me feel loved.
Husband: Ehh I'm just not feeling it, and I don't have to if I don't want to. What's the problem? Why are you upset?

Husband: Wife I need to you to help out around the house.
Wife: Ehh I'm old and tired, I don't think I am going to do that anymore. How dare you ask!

No one is saying you have to, but if you attitude is this may be important to my spouse but I just don't feel like putting in the effort then you are probably not going to have a great marriage.

Good luck with that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> No one is saying that she HAS to do anything.
> 
> BUT, I hope no one is saying that her husband must be happy about it.
> 
> Two things of note: She said that she did these past things happily and enjoyed them at the time. She has not said that she no longer interested in doing these things. It seems as if she just has no interest in doing them with her husband.


When it's put that way it just sounds like laziness.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> 
> 
> > Her freind didn't blow up the marriage. Were the OP as attracted to, and as wild with, her husband as she was her previous fling, the marriage would have endured this easily. OP built her marriage on a poor foundation; no demolition needed, you could knock it over with a feather.
> ...


Maybe her friend didn’t know that she denies her husband nearly everything? If she was unaware of the deceit, you can’t blame her.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> Maybe her friend didn’t know that she denies her husband nearly everything? If she was unaware of the deceit, you can’t blame her.


EVEN if the friend had no info of the vanilla sex, simply mentioning a past flame (especially hot sex) when your SO is there ... the act alone, is disrespectful!!

How would you feel if your wife's friend starts talking about your W's ex-bf, especially if he was a hot one and she had hot sex with him ??? (Even if your wife is giving you hot sex too...) but..the act alone of talking about a hot ex in YOUR presence, would make you feel uncomfortable.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> That may be true but if you are not being fully honest about who you are and giving your best to your spouse then you can't say you are good one.


My “best” has nothing to do with what kind of sex I have. 
Having anal with one guy and not with another doesn’t mean I didn’t give one my “best”. I don’t have anal with everyone. It depends entirely on factors that have nothing to do with alpha or beta men or who is getting my “best”. It also has nothing to do with “who I am”. It’s just sex. 

I’ve had wild sex with men who’s names I don’t know. Some things I really enjoyed but wouldn’t want to do with my bf because the situation is different. We sat down and made our own yes and no list that we are happy with. It had nothing to do with our pasts. Only things that matter are me and him. No one else. 

My best is love and support and consistency and gifts and choosing someone every single day because I care. It’s me being a partner to someone. 

The kind of sex I have says nothing about how I feel about the person. 
People are taking this way too personally. 

She does need to explore this but everyone’s hurt feelings aren’t going to help. Making it sound like anal sex and sex toys are the “best” and the “cream” of anything you can do in a relationship diminishes everything imo.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

To help OP understand, here’s an analogy.

You ask your husband to be cuddly/romantic and bring you flowers. He says he doesn’t enjoy that, he’s not that kind of guy, and he shouldn’t have to jump through hoops and continue to court you. You ask repeatedly and you are a little resentful that he refuses, but you accept this about him because you love him.

Later, while he’s drunk and having a drunk conversation with an old friend, you learn that with his ex-girlfriend, he used to text her all day, put little love notes in her lunch, and buy her expensive flowers. He loved doing those things for her, adored her, and they joke about how he spent thousands that year on high-end bouquets of flowers for her.

How would that make you feel about Steve’s feelings about you compared to the ex? When you express hurt and anger, Steve reluctantly agrees to start doing those things now that he’s been found out - would that make it okay?

You can think men are wrong for feeling this way, but you need to understand how it looks and feels to a man.

You can change your behavior but you can’t change your attraction.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

CraigBesuden said:


> Many women think it’s a compliment that she makes a man wait for months to have sex, and then only begrudgingly gives him vanilla sex. He’s someone special, while hot sexy guys they crave and love having sex with “mean nothing.”
> 
> To many men, it’s an insult. You saved your best sex for a guy who wanted nothing from you but sex. Steve has to give you a whole lot to just get crumbs. Dave didn’t need to give you anything to get the whole feast.


This is the common difference in women's perspective vs men's perspective.

We're not saying that the man's perspective is the right one.

But, it's very important that men and women understand the perspective of the other gender.



CraigBesuden said:


> If a man isn’t sexually attracted to his wife, so he has wild sex with a woman on the side, does that mean his wife is Plan B? Not really. She’s Plan A for cooking, cleaning, and raising babies, but she’s Plan Z for sex.


I don't think most women are as concerned about the possibility of being plan Z for sex as men are.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

lovelygirl said:


> EVEN if the friend had no info of the vanilla sex, simply mentioning a past flame (especially hot sex) when your SO is there ... the act alone, is disrespectful!!
> 
> How would you feel if your wife's friend starts talking about your W's ex-bf, especially if he was a hot one and she had hot sex with him ??? (Even if your wife is giving you hot sex too...) but..the act alone of talking about a hot ex in YOUR presence, would make you feel uncomfortable.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


True but maybe she did him a favor.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Somehow only sex works like this. Let's think about other things that are basic parts of marriage and use the same logic.
> 
> Wife: Husband I need you to talk to me more, it's part of what makes me feel loved.
> Husband: Ehh I'm just not feeling it, and I don't have to if I don't want to. What's the problem? Why are you upset?
> ...


Nicely put. 

Of course she doesn't "have to" do anything, but equally he "doesn't have to" stay married to her.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The kind of sex I have says nothing about how I feel about the person.
> People are taking this way too personally.


I truly believe that this is true for you.

But few men are going to see it the same way.

How much quality time I spend with my wife may truly have nothing to do with how I feel about her.

But, she's going to think it does. So, I have to keep that in mind.


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

I need a smoke........


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My “best” has nothing to do with what kind of sex I have.
> Having anal with one guy and not with another doesn’t mean I didn’t give one my “best”. I don’t have anal with everyone. It depends entirely on factors that have nothing to do with alpha or beta men or who is getting my “best”. It also has nothing to do with “who I am”. It’s just sex.
> 
> I’ve had wild sex with men who’s names I don’t know. Some things I really enjoyed but wouldn’t want to do with my bf because the situation is different. We sat down and made our own yes and no list that we are happy with. It had nothing to do with our pasts. Only things that matter are me and him. No one else.
> ...


First of there are a ton of other things you can do besides anal sex that are not considered vanella so I am not sure why you just go there. OP never even mentioned it. 

I am sure you think this way just like I am sure for her husband and very many other good husbands, sex is a meant as a very important form of intimacy in their marriage. Partly it's about vulnerability and giving of yourself to the person you love. It's meant to be that. Not unlike how many women want their husbands to be emotionally intimate with them because it make them feel closer to them. Men get this same kind of feeling when their wives are intimate with them. This physical intimacy helps them feel close, and to bond with their wives. 

Now I am sure you are going to bring up bad experiences where some man you know or maybe you dated who used that sex like a trophy and treated the person they were having sex with like a possession or an object, and I am right there with you. I agree that is wrong and a turn off. If that were the case that would be one thing.

But just like the husband who says, I work all day for my family, that is how I show my love but doesn't take the time to truly talk to his wife, care about her emotionally, become vulnerable and intimate with her emotionally even though it's something she craves and has set aside only for her husband. So is the wife who says I love my husband and choose to spend every day with him, and then never bothers to show the intimate physical side of herself. The wife who doesn't work hard to give him pleasure and that closeness, which is also something that her husband very healthy craves and has set aside only for his wife. In both cases your right neither one of these spouses has to do those things. I wouldn't want to be married to them though.

Just like the man who thinks romance is silly or only meant for dating, so is the women who feels the same way about passionate sex. Read my posts to men who think this way. 

Marriage at it's very basic level is about intimacy. That is what makes it glorious. It's the most special intimacy you reserve only for one person hopefully for most of your adult life. Now assuming you married a good spouse who you love. Assuming you have what you think is a good marriage. When you know you can be doing things and exploring things be they emotional or physical that helps to reinforce and strengthen that intimacy, things that can make you closer and make you feel it deeper, why would you not want to do that? How could the rejected spouse not feel terribly hurt by that? It's just common sense. 

Anyway good luck with that.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Penny Dreadful said:


> *The sex with Dave was the very best I have ever had and very varied.*
> 
> I love Steve very much and I know he feels the same but *our sex life has always been vanilla (my choice)* and *there has been some resentment from Steve*, don't know why I have not opened up with Steve but I never have and *as I told him I am not into what he calls "full menu sex" he has mostly accepted it.*
> 
> ...


You clearly lied to Steve when you said you don’t like “full menu sex.” You absolutely love it, and you always have. You simply are not sexually attracted to Steve.

The question isn’t why you gave it to Dave but not Steve. The question is why did you lie to Steve about not enjoying it, when your past shows you clearly do. And you have not denied that you still crave it. You good friend says that Dave is your “super stud,” which puts Steve in his rightful and shameful place.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> SlowlyGoingCrazy said:
> 
> 
> > The kind of sex I have says nothing about how I feel about the person.
> ...


I am pro- wild sex with your husband. I think it’s healthy to have as little hard no areas as possible which is why I discussed this need with my BF initially. 

If we agreed to no pegging and then down the road I find out he did it with someone else, that doesn’t changed that I agreed to and negotiated no pegging. I was ok with a pegging-less relationship with him when I chose to accept it. His past doesn’t change that. 

His reasons for why would be something I’d like to discuss but 

A- him not doing pegging with me does not mean he doesn’t give me his best or he was better with someone else. It doesn’t mean he loved her more. 

B- we are our own couple. He can choose to say yes or no to any sex act and has no obligation to do anything with me that he did with someone else. 

Many men separate women into sex material and wife material and it doesn’t get met with this kind of reaction. 

Calm things down and let her explore WHY without judgement and projection.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> You clearly lied to Steve when you said you don’t like “full menu sex.” You absolutely love it, and you always have. You simply are not sexually attracted to Steve.
> 
> The question isn’t why you gave it to Dave but not Steve. The question is why did you lie to Steve about not enjoying it, when your past shows you clearly do. And you have not denied that you still crave it. You good friend says that Dave is your “super stud,” which puts Steve in his rightful and shameful place.


Building on this OP let me ask you delicately are you ashamed of the fact that you liked the full menu? Have you been taught that it's wrong to enjoy these things? 

Why did you keep what is obviously a part of yourself away from the person whom you say you love the most? Who really wanted to be a part of that and share that with you? And whom has tried to build a life with you?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I am pro- wild sex with your husband. I think it’s healthy to have as little hard no areas as possible which is why I discussed this need with my BF initially.
> 
> If we agreed to no pegging and then down the road I find out he did it with someone else, that doesn’t changed that I agreed to and negotiated no pegging. I was ok with a pegging-less relationship with him when I chose to accept it. His past doesn’t change that.
> 
> ...


This really has no bearing on the discussion as we are not talking about one sex act. OP's own words were 



> our sex life has always been vanilla (my choice)


That isn't just one sex act that is the whole ethos of their sex life. If she came on here and said, I did anal with my ex never really liked it and don't ever want to do it again my response would be, if you told him that and he accepted it then he has no reason to complain. Anal sex has a pain element to it for a lot of people so I think it's different at least in my mind. But that is not this.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

lovelygirl said:


> I find it VERY disrespectful that her friend had to do that to OP, while her H was already there.
> 
> I don't buy the "drunk" argument. Plain disrespect.
> 
> Throw that friend away, OP.


That may be, but sometimes good things come from bad. At least now hubby has a clearer picture of where he stands. As much as it hurts, that needed to happen.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lovelygirl said:


> She doesn't need therapy. She already knows why.
> 
> We already know why.
> 
> Subconsciously, Steve knows why.


Just being even handed. A professional can probably do the most good if she has things she needs to come to grips with.

She does need to work through whatever to be able to perform better in bed for her husband if she wants to show her love and desire for him and get her marriage to be healthier than she has so far allowed.

I actually don't see this as a Steve or Dave issue but an OP one.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That may be, but sometimes good things come from bad. At least now hubby has a clearer picture of where he stands. As much as it hurts, that needed to happen.


But is he better off than he would have been, had he never known? In all likelihood, the answer to that question is... no. Does that fact make a difference?

This stuff hits way too close to home. The difference being that what went on between my wife and the other guy was 42+ years ago and only discovered recently. And it destroyed me, and has been eating away at me ever since, and we're now in marriage counseling because of it. It matters, to me, because her narrative is so different from what I'd been told, and that narrative kind of imprinted on me, if you know what I mean. Maybe you don't. Maybe that's an unusual thing. 

Ironically, much good will come from this, because I was thinking for a while how fortunate it was that the biz wasn't making much money lately so any settlement would make D a lot easier. It was just a lot of overall frustration with lack of physical interest in me on her part, you could call it LD but it was more complicated than that because she actually is a sexual person. Or was. And she had resented a lot of things in our marriage without telling me. We've grown much closer since. It took a crisis to get there.

But I'll never be the same person I was before, at least not until she's comfortable talking about it. 

But... that's me. I don't know what went on during their vetting period, or if there was one. I don't know how well H communicated to the OP that he needed to know this or didn't need to know that. I was quite clear on my need to know. Had I been told at the time, no big deal. 

I hope that the OP reads this and maybe gets where her H is coming from, and recognizes how she's actually fortunate that it's come out now and not years down the road. IC and/or MC now will be a lot easier for them than down the road when they have a lifetime of frustrations they can blame on secrets and lies.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> But is he better off than he would have been, had he never known? In all likelihood, the answer to that question is... no. Does that fact make a difference?
> 
> This stuff hits way too close to home. The difference being that what went on between my wife and the other guy was 42+ years ago and only discovered recently. And it destroyed me, and has been eating away at me ever since, and we're now in marriage counseling because of it. It matters, to me, because her narrative is so different from what I'd been told, and that narrative kind of imprinted on me, if you know what I mean. Maybe you don't. Maybe that's an unusual thing.
> 
> ...


I guess it's about who you are. Would you rather have the truth or comfort. I would pick truth 100% of the time without a second thought. Authenticity is much more important to me then avoiding difficult truths, even painful truths.

Besides this the only reason this would be a choice would be that I married a lying *******.

The answer to the question "would you want your spouse to tell you years later that they cheated" is always - I would rather not be married to that ******* to begin with.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If we agreed to no pegging and then down the road I find out he did it with someone else, that doesn’t changed that I agreed to and negotiated no pegging. I was ok with a pegging-less relationship with him when I chose to accept it. His past doesn’t change that.


Would you resent it if you reluctantly agreed to “no pegging” because you thought it made your partner happy and comfortable, but you really always wanted it? I would find it hard to believe if you said no, you wouldn’t resent it.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Lostinthought61 said:


> So penny are you willing to destroy your marriage over this....you have an opportunity to explore the menu with a man who loves you and is open minded...you should be blessed





Marduk said:


> *If it were me, any attempt to explore and be open now would be fraught with doubt and feel spectacularly unnatural and forced. Like that she's only doing it with me to appease me out of fear, not because she wanted to. Dave would be a ghost in the room any time we had sex.*
> 
> I've been a Dave. I've also been a Steve.
> 
> I'd much rather be a Dave than a Steve, and I don't know if I could be a Steve pretending to be a Dave after all this. 'd much rather find someone that wanted me like she wanted Dave than to settle for her pretending to want me like she wanted Dave.


_Can_ you even open the menu up now? Now that he knows that you do like that stuff but didn't want to do it to him, what's he to think if you offer it now that your relationship is under threat? Is he going to think you still don't want it with him but you're feeling coerced by the possibility of losing your marriage? Is he the kind of man who would coerce a woman to have kinky sex with him when she has told him that she doesn't want that with him? If I were in his shoes I would feel like a rapist if you offered now and I accepted. I would have to divorce and cut you out of my life so I could find the kind of lover that you were for Dave but refused to be for me.



Livvie said:


> *It's been predominantly men posting responses here, making a lot of assumptions, giving opinions based on those assumptions. *
> 
> That's pretty sexist.
> 
> ...


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Penny Dreadful said:


> I have an idea why I refused Steve full menu sex. I did not care what Dave thought of me I was young and not in any relationship and I did what i wanted to do, when I met Steve there was an attraction that grew over the months and when we started to have sex I did care what he thought and did not want to come across as a **** and i walled off that part of me.


 @Penny Dreadful, I would suggest couple's counselling. ASAP.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

The Middleman said:


> SlowlyGoingCrazy said:
> 
> 
> > If we agreed to no pegging and then down the road I find out he did it with someone else, that doesn’t changed that I agreed to and negotiated no pegging. I was ok with a pegging-less relationship with him when I chose to accept it. His past doesn’t change that.
> ...



This is why the “why” matters more than blowing this up into something it’s not. 

I’d sit down and listen to his why with an open mind. 

I have my own whys. They have nothing to do with my “best” or my attraction or my feelings. 

If I decided to take it as a personal insult and blew up about how she got the “cream” despite him choosing ME to marry and that I would rather be a fling with wild sex vs. Someone he chose to spend his life with that has less wild sex, the conversation would go nowhere. 

Put the anger down and figure out *why* without getting things blown out of proportion.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I guess it's about who you are. Would you rather have the truth or comfort. I would pick truth 100% of the time without a second thought. Authenticity is much more important to me then avoiding difficult truths, even painful truths.
> 
> Besides this the only reason this would be a choice would be that I married a lying *******.
> 
> The answer to the question "would you want your spouse to tell you years later that they cheated" is always - I would rather not be married to that ******* to begin with.


I'm in the demanding of 100% truth and authenticity camp. That's more important to me than any pain it might cause. In my situation what happened is long enough ago that my wife has no recollection of what she lied about. That's why it is so important to expect and demand authenticity up front, *if* that's the type of person you are.

We haven't yet heard if that was the case for the OP's H though. We know he's hurting now, but we don't know if he entered the relationship not wanting to know about her past. Some guys fall into that camp, and if you didn't want to know, then you shouldn't be making a scene if you find out.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> People are taking this way too personally.



Ya think?

The OP has posted to this thread exactly 5 times. One of which was to state that she wouldn't be posting anymore today.


There are 8 pages of responses. *Correction* There are now 6 pages of responses.

If you read the first post in this thread and find yourself triggering, odds are, some other triggered individual has already said what you have to say ... several times.

If you don't have something constructive to say, a personal experience to share, or sage wisdom to proffer. I advise thinking twice before posting.

I'm closing this thread.

OP can PM myself or any other mod, should she choose to continue posting to it. Give everyone time to catch their breath.


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## Dreadful Penny (Sep 5, 2019)

*The past and the future part two*

If this new thread is against the rules please let me know, thank you.

First an apology, I know a lot of people on this site have suffered hurt and damage so if my original post has added to that please accept my sincere apologies. 

I must thank all those who posted even those who only spewed bile and vitriol i can learn even from the harshest criticism.

There was however one poster who did get under my skin a bit; I have been patronised before but it still irritates me, I am not your "Dear" I do have a clue. The post you responded to was because I was both accused of using my H as a pay packet and looking down on him because I was the higher earner, i fact neither is correct.

I had a talk with my H that went on long into last night night and my mind is no longer full of worry and turmoil although we will have to work through this matter.

I will post more details later if the mods allow this post to stand.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

*Re: The past and the future part two*

Good to hear. Do you both have an idea about how to resolve your restraining your sexuality with your husband?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

*Re: The past and the future part two*



Penny Dreadful said:


> I had a talk with my H that went on long into last night night and my mind is no longer full of worry and turmoil although we will have to work through this matter.
> 
> I will post more details later if the mods allow this post to stand.


As you work through things pay close attention to the aspect of "trust" in the conversations. Your husband will likely want to understand why you did not trust him enough to have already been completely open and share details about how you got to know yourself. 

I was quite a player in my college days and I am open to my wife about all those things. Not in a voyeuristic way with sexual details, but more so about describing my emotional state and wellbeing in those relationships. When we talk about that, it is a story of why I chose to marry my wife and what sets her apart from just playing around with people for sex. It is actually a healthy conversation to have in my opinion. 

With regards to "full menu" possibilities with intimacy. That too is an important discovery process for a long term relationship. The key element being "trust" with one another.

Now if there was a slight chance someone in your past went across the line and pushed you to do something that hurt you, then there is the possibility that this discussion and process may be one about past abuse. If that is the case, you will need to let your husband know this as it changes things. Key element again here is still focusing on "trust." 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

*Re: The past and the future part two*

I'm interested in knowing what you feel the root of the issue is. 

Almost everyone (perhaps everyone even) here has deal breaker issues for other members and we all project. If people are way off, just ignore it. Their same advice that is annoying to you might reach another person. Not to mention the triggers in this thread. Sometimes some of us just need to walk away. I dont typically post in the infidelity forums for example. First, I dont think I would be much help, but second I find myself getting too frustrated and my fingers start typing out nasty things. I just don't go there anymore. Some dont go to politics section at all. It is what it is. Take those grains of salt and toss them over your shoulder and find what speaks to you. This is just good practice in general. 

It would probably be good practice for myself as well to recognize when I'm being nasty towards others in that moment it's happening so I can walk away before I cause damage. Oh, not damage to others (grain of salt), but further damage to myself by being ugly with people. 

Glad you two are working it out, but I would just caution you to not be surprised if the worry and turmoil comes is cycles as your husband's anger is likely to come in cycles. As I'm sure you could tell by the responses, this is a very big deal and an instant deal breaker for many as you saw. Keep fighting for your marriage, never give up unless it's the right thing to do for your husband, the man you love.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

*Re: The past and the future part two*

There was nothing wrong with your part of the thread I think. It was locked to calm down the other posters going crazy in it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

*Re: The past and the future part two*



Penny Dreadful said:


> I had a talk with my H that went on long into last night night and my mind is no longer full of worry and turmoil although we will have to work through this matter.


I read Part 1 and I'm glad you are talking to your husband in a healthy and mindful manner. You are entitled to have the sex life you feel comfortable with. If it's more vanilla, so be it. Attitudes to sex change with age and experience... and life. Hopefully, your husband will be ok with it. This stuff happened when you were 21 and you've grown up since then. Maybe you'll be able to reach a compromise where both of you will feel comfortable.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

*Re: The past and the future part two*



Penny Dreadful said:


> If this new thread is against the rules please let me know, thank you.
> 
> First an apology, I know a lot of people on this site have suffered hurt and damage so if my original post has added to that please accept my sincere apologies.
> 
> ...


You did nothing to apologize for. You came here for help. I try to pay back from
what I have learned from others that have been down this road before me to the 
new people that show up.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Penny Dreadful said:


> If this new thread is against the rules please let me know, thank you.
> 
> First an apology, to your husband
> 
> ...


I see you have gained some insight from the fourm in the way of courage to talk to your husband. OP, you have open the doors for you and your husband to explore and possibly work out. Which only you can do bravo, on your new method of getting your matter settled.

Talk and conversation with the one that is most important to you. Do continue to be forthcoming and bold to your husband as you have been here. It is my belief that you and he will, explore new and developed stages of your marriage. Smile, is only terrible if you don't confront your's or your husband's demons.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

When reading here Penny keep in mind that this is a troubled marriage site and sex issues in my observance is by far the #1 problem - so lots of people are triggered and have strong opinions on what is "right" and for some unknown reason are sure they understand "the problem" and resolution. TAM requires a sturdy back bone and heavy filter to weed thru and separate ranting/lecturing/ and something that might help. 

Don't think anyone here knows how your husband really feels and thinks as well as you. Talk to him. Best of luck.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I’m happy that you discussed things and you’re moving in the right direction!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

@Penny Dreadful we moved some of the more contentious talk to another thread on the board so that should keep this thread more focused.

Where is everything now? What has your husband communicated to you about how he feels. I would assume he is very hurt. What are your thoughts about this now?


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## Dreadful Penny (Sep 5, 2019)

My apologies for not replying sooner. My H does not know i am posting on this site and i intend to keep it that way not to deceive him but i dont know any of you guys irl and thst allows me to be very open with you.

Tomorow event will be exhausting so i will go into much greater detail on Monday as i have a day off work.

Thank you for your responsed thsy are appreciated.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Moderator note:

Bans will be issued to anyone thread jacking Penny Dreadful's thread. There is another thread dedicated to debating the topic of retroactive jealous, etc...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So I went back and looked at your first post. You wrote.



> This problem has been caused by my actions within a relationship that started back before i met my H.


This quote shows you don't get it. Your problem is caused by your lie by omission and you complete sexual rejection of your husband. Not having a relationship with this other guy. It really has nothing to do with this guy besides the fact that this guy illustrates the true nature of your sexual relationship in your marriage. One you kept hidden. 

Your husband is not upset about your relationship with this dude. He is upset because he has been rejected by you but you were not honest enough to tell him you were rejecting him and therefore allowing him to make an informed decision to move to someone who desired him sexually. Who knows he may have even stayed with you. You told him he was asking for something that you were incapable of. And I suspect you did that because you knew that if your husband had the truth he would just have moved on. Or at least been very resentful about it. 

If you don't understand the problem you will never be able to fix it.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Penny, it doesn't make any difference what your reasons are. You lied by omission to your husband. He is Plan B, he knows it, and you will never, ever get that out of his head, no matter what you say, Your marriage is dead!


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I can only add to the recommendations that you should get professional couple counselling. Maybe a male counsellor would be preferable.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Penny, it doesn't make any difference what your reasons are. You lied by omission to your husband. He is Plan B, he knows it, and you will never, ever get that out of his head, no matter what you say, Your marriage is dead!


Penny,

There are a lot of comments here about you "lying". I'm not sure what YOU think about that, but for what it's worth, I don't understand or agree with those comments.

Just because you do something with another person, in the past, doesn't mean you always have to like that same stuff.

You met your husband a couple of years after your fling with the older man from work. You weren't interested in doing things you did with him, anymore.

I don't see how a changed sexual preference is a LIE.

I don't think it is.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Penny, it doesn't make any difference what your reasons are. You lied by omission to your husband. He is Plan B, he knows it, and you will never, ever get that out of his head, no matter what you say, Your marriage is dead!


I don't see it this way. She did lie about who she is for reasons that I hope they uncover and remedy but I don't see the marriage as over.

This is a good thing to come out and deal with. The marriage can get a lot healthier now that the secret isn't one any longer.

Dave was much older and more than likely very self assured and dominant. He very well might have been more attractive physically than Steve as well.

Steve is more her age, more than likely less experienced, self assured or dominant and he might be a little less attractive physically.

She grew to really love Steve but her relationship with him is totally different from that of Dave. She would not have married Dave and that is very important.

She probably wasn't the dominant one in her relationship with Dave and she might not have known how to behave with Steve and still be able to marry him which she really wanted to do.

I haven't read anywhere from Penny that Steve is just a wallet and father.

Penny has made some dreadful missteps but this can be remedied.:smile2:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Penny Dreadful said:


> You are so wrong, when i met Steve I was earning considerably more than him and still earn a good salary plus bonuses, we also live in a house I inherited from my Grandmother before we married so it has nothing to do with him being a "pay packet".
> 
> I work in the London financial industry and anyone who knows this area of work will know it is "affair central" and I have never been tempted to stray. As for Dave it was always FWB and nothing more.
> 
> ...


Your husband has been your sexual plan B.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Penny Dreadful said:


> I have an idea why I refused Steve full menu sex. I did not care what Dave thought of me I was young and not in any relationship and I did what i wanted to do, when I met Steve there was an attraction that grew over the months and when we started to have sex *I did care what he thought and did not want to come across as a ***** and i walled off that part of me.


So your primary concern when it came to a major part of your marriage for your husband probably one of the the very top was not about the person you were married to but about yourself. It wasn't about your husbands pleasure but about how he felt about you, his perception of you. Really how you felt about yourself, because obviously his reaction let you know that he would have wanted that. 

This was a profoundly selfish act on your part and one that may not be recoverable from.

Even if everything in the table, more then before you will still have to deal with a terrible deception that was done for selfish reasons. Your husband is older now and I'm sure he will feel like he will never get those years back. It will be very hard for him to recover from the resentment of that.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Moderator note:

Since it doesn't seem like we can stick to giving advice to @Penny Dreadful and have to resort to arguing and debating her issues instead, I am closing this thread. 
@Penny Dreadful, DO NOT open another thread on the same topic. PM me or any of the other moderators when you are ready to come back for help.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You’re going to get raked over the coals here so before I say anything, I want to make a note
> _Anyone is allowed to try something with a previous partner and decide they didn’t like it and take it off their menu. No one is obligated to preform sex acts just because you did them in the past._


The way you wrote this makes it come across as some rule of the universe. It's not, it's a hugely disrespectful standard to hold when in a marriage, could even be a marriage-killer.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ZOMBIE.


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