# EA which ended with drunken mistake



## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

There's lots of detail to this but I'm just going to condense the key points.

We've been married for about 10 years, never had any fights or major issues, have a 6 yr old, wife suffers from depression for the last couple of years and on medication, I've been stressed with my career and focused too much on me and not on my wife, as a result she has felt lonely and neglected.

My wife joined a gym and it helped her self esteem and confidence. She then met someone and they both felt an attraction, she told me about it, said she was committed to us and told the guy where to go.

Unfortunately, she liked the feeling it gave her and continued being friends with him. They never met alone but she often went out drinking and would stagger home drunk in the early hours of the morning. I tried numerous times to reason with her but despite promises to change her behavior continued.

She then told me she was no longer in love with me, although about an hour later she changed her mind and said the 'spark' had gone.

I was obviously shocked and spent a few weeks questioning a lot of things about my life. The conclusion I came to was that the only thing that really mattered to me was my wife and child. I could also see how I had been neglecting her and went on a campaign to change myself and be the husband she deserved. Nothing really seemed to change though and as she told me later; by then it was too late.

It all came to a horrible conclusion one night when I got a phone call from 'the guy' who proceeded to tell me my wife was drunk, with him and that they had feelings for each other. Also that things had become physical.

I went though all the emotions you would expect but what really blew me away was that that same night she came back home and slept in the same bed!

The next day or so we talked a lot, she told me all the details and how she had been torn. She said she loved me and knew there was no future with the other guy. I said that I still loved her and that the time invested in the marriage and the fact we had a child meant I wanted to work through the issues and rebuild.

The problem I have is that although I understand why she did it and have the details, I'm not really sure what is going on.

She hasn't cried or shown any real remorse, she is sorry that she hurt me but hasn't begged me to take her back or claim never to do it again. She never wants to talk about anything serious and says she needs time to 'think it all through'. I'm paranoid, not sleeping and not eating properly whilst she seems unchanged.

I've put this down to the fact that she emotionally disconnected herself from me and it has only been 2 weeks. She needs time to work out what happened and stabilize herself.

I'm trying to carry on, be positive, focus on myself etc but I'm going through hell and feel like I'm waiting for her to make up her mind.

Just hoping someone out there has been through something similar and can offer any advice?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"The next day or so we talked a lot, she told me all the details and how she had been torn." Torn means conflicted, undecided. 
"says she needs time to 'think it all through'. " Another reference to being conflicted and undecided.

She's still at least emotionally connected to this guy. He may be married or not able to support her financially as well as you can. For whatever reason, it sounds as if she wants the security of you and the fun of him. 

If it were me, I wouldn't give her that option. The security of me is contingent upon being faithful to me. If she needed time to sort things out, she would do that outside the comfort and security of my home. The price of a ticket on the gravy train just went up for her. It would require her to cease her gym membership, absolutely have no further contact of any description with this guy, pass an STD and HIV test, and allow me unrestricted access to her cell phone, and email passwords. 
If she's serious about being married, she will find the terms generous. If she values this other guy more than you, the ultimatum will force her to choose. Either way, you will know where you stand. I don't want to be "kinda" or "sorta" married. I'd offer to attend counseling or jump through whatever reasonable hoops she needs, but not until she absolutely severs all contact with her workout buddy.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Why would she be remorseful or sorry? She never lost you. There were no consequences to her actions so why should she change? She still gets to sit on the fence and see the guy. All she has to do is tell you that she is torn and you let her continue to eat cake. She is not required to respect you. Without respect there can be no love. You can have respect without love, but not love without respect. Do you want her to stop? Separate your finances, cut off her credit cards, expose her to friends and family, and then tell her to decide who she chooses. If she chooses him, file for divorce. If you continue in this charade, you will lose respect for yourself as well as losing her and your marriage.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Unbelievable is on track here - there are some conditions that you should be setting up in order to build a better marriage. Indy, you too are on track in that you can see areas where you have participated in creating a marriage in which an affair seemed like a reasonable solution. Not a good solution, nor moral, but a solution, nonetheless. 

Indy, you are going through these emotions for two reasons: one, the shock of the affair (that takes time to get over - you'll just have to realize that you'll experience emotional turbulence and go on with your life anyway). Two: there are issues that have not been resolved.

Set up three conditions (things that unbeliveable hinted at):

1) *Your wife writes a NO CONTACT letter to the Other Man*. _*YOU*_ proofread it AND mail it. A no contact letter is a specific type of letter - here are some samples - that is written specifically to do as much as possible to end any possibility of the affair continuing. 

2) You and your wife *commit to becoming transparently honest with one another*: share all passwords, email and social networking log-ins, phone records, and any other form of communicating with other people. 

3) You and your wife* commit to working on your marriage*. There are lots of great resources available to you that I'll be glad to link for you - tools that make work on your marriage easier and much more effective. 

Do NOT do anything to punish your wife. She is an adult, and in every way your equal - you do not have the right to punish. Instead, set up and clarify with her specific boundaries that you have set around YOURSELF. For example, you will not remain in a relationship where there is infidelity. Leave her the choice on how to respond. In this, Initfortheduration is heading in a correct-ish direction.

It would be wrong to simply cut off her credit cards, or expose her actions to anyone else - _unless the affair keeps going after you have stated the above conditions - *and she refuses to stop or to agree to them*_. In that case, you will instead of using control methods to make her behave how you want, you'll be taking steps to protect your marriage, and to protect family, etc., from the damage that will occur if the affair continues. 

If she has already stopped the affair, you have a different path to take to recover - and then improve - your marriage. If the affair has not stopped yet, you cannot work on the marriage. One step - one rational, carefully reasoned step - at a time.


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

UPDATE...

Could really do with some advice on this...

My wife has ended all contact with the other guy and says its me she wants and wants our marriage to work.

The problem is that whilst I can forgive her and look forward to a stronger marriage I just dont feel as though she has the same commitment.

She seems down a lot and says she cant beleive what or even how she could do such a thing. It feels like she is more sorry about what SHE did and how SHE feels. I'm the one trying to remain optimistic, reassuring her that I love her etc.

She doesnt like talking about stuff, wont see a counselor, read books or even research stuff on the net. She says I'm pressuring her into doing stuff and she is still in shock. I've seen no emotion from her, no crying, she says sorry but it lacks conviction. I feel like I'm the only one putting in the effort and have said this numerous times to which she just repeats she loves me etc.

So the question is...

Is she just coming to terms with what she has done? She said the affair took away her depression - is this just a phase she is going through?

OR

Do I push her to talk, be firm that I need to see her taking action to know she is genuine?

I've read that sometimes it can take a few months before you can rationally think.

This is really killing me, I love her to bits and want to make this work but just feel like she just isnt that interested.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

An affair is like an addiction - there must be a time of dealing with the withdrawal before you can proceed much further. 

Don't expect her to instantly be head over heels, giddy in love with you. From your point of view, love is present - but for her, over time, love dwindled until her feelings could switch to another person. 

I would not advise 'pushing' her to talk; instead, be open with her. Tell her how you feel, what you are thinking. Be absolutely honest. 

Here's one way that you can get her involved more - even to the extent of helping her past the withdrawals faster: tell her you understand that things were getting bad for your marriage, and you want to know what your part in it was. Tell her you found a questionnaire that she can answer that would explain some of the things you may have done that help extinguish the love she felt for you. 

Download and print this questionnaire. 

Also this one (to use later)

Keep telling her you are her best friend, and that you are there for her. But refrain from using means of controlling her - all that does is build resentment. 

At the same time: keep working on yourself: 

Try this fun and informative quiz for yourself.

Descriptions of what you learn here.

Self growth will be very helpful in aiding her. She has taken the right steps: just give her time. She'll get more interested soon.


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

Another update...

She slept with the guy again! She is on meds and got really, really drunk. says she just lost control.

She came home early in the morning stinking of booze and went mad, I kept pushing her as to why she did it and eventually she broke down in tears. Not just tears but almost wailing saying that she is really screwed up and needs help. this went on for a couple hours and then later she confessed that she had never really given the guy up because it helped her anxiety.

She then told me how she now realises the mistake she has made and its me she wants. She then begged me not to leave her.

All the things I complained in my above post came to the surface and she seemed so sincere that I said I'd help her and not leave.

Now a few days later she is acting normal, and seems happy, as though everything is peachy. She keeps saying we should be positive.

Today I just kept thinking of her and this other guy and felt sick all day. Did I forgive too soon? Am I a mug? She seems genuine and I don't want to lose her but cant help thinking I'm not handling this right.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Again, consider the three conditions I listed above: they will set you on the right path. Unless you take those steps (or something very similar) you are still leaving the door open for more of the same:

1) Your wife writes a NO CONTACT letter to the Other Man. YOU proofread it AND mail it. A no contact letter is a specific type of letter - here are some samples - that is written specifically to do as much as possible to end any possibility of the affair continuing.

2) You and your wife commit to becoming transparently honest with one another: share all passwords, email and social networking log-ins, phone records, and any other form of communicating with other people.

3) You and your wife commit to working on your marriage. There are lots of great resources available to you that I'll be glad to link for you - tools that make work on your marriage easier and much more effective.​
And you'll need to find out what is missing in your marriage, which is the reason for the questionnaire suggestions. They give you and your wife something to talk about, in great depth.

One other thing: it would be best for you to request that she cease ALL alcohol, at least while she is on other drugs. She is a living (at least still!) example of why that is so important. Mixing various toxic (and mind altering) substances (legal or not) removes much of the ability to think rationally. She is much more vulnerable to fall for emotionally directed actions that she would if sober. 

Also: this Other Man - you might want to point out his fine character: getting a married woman so drunk she won't say no - quite a fine catch there!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Before she was drunk, she was sober. She chose to drink to the point of intoxication and she chose to do so in his proximity. The alcohol isn't the culprit, it's a convenient excuse to do what she wanted all along. There's no real remorse because there's no real remorse. She's found a way to have her cake and eat it, too. Fool around on you, cry a little about how sorry she allegedly is, and plan the next time. She wants positive? I'd give her positive. I'd positively put her out with all her belongings on the curb. She'd have to show me a lot more than a few crocodile tears to get back in.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> She'd have to show me a lot more than a few crocodile tears to get back in.


That's exactly why those three conditions are so important. Letting things slide because of various excuses leaves the door open for repeat behavior. As long as you don't create a necessary set of non-negotiable conditions that you won't modify, you keep yourself safe. She is ABSOLUTELY free to do what she wants, but if those conditions are not met, she will be doing it all by her lonesome. If that is acceptable to her, you can do very little about it. 

But if she agrees to those conditions, you have opened the way to recovery.


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

Tanelornpete - we've pretty much followed those 3 steps, the only thing is although she says she is committed to the marriage I never see her searching the web or reading any books.

How do you enforce something like that?

unbelievable - did threaten to kick her out bt she claims its her house too and refuses to move out.


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

maaann,, i am sorry for you.
leave her whatever the reason.. do not engage to a stupid person...

its absolutely clear, she is not your match.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

In a very recent post, you wrote:



> She slept with the guy again! She is on meds and got really, really drunk. says she just lost control.


Now you write:



> Tanelornpete - we've pretty much followed those 3 steps, the only thing is although she says she is committed to the marriage I never see her searching the web or reading any books.
> 
> How do you enforce something like that?


So WHEN did you start following these steps?

The _very first step_ is for her to compose a No Contact letter (here's the reason why) and then YOU proofread it - and the YOU mail it. What did her No Contact letter say?

Second: do you have access to all her email accounts, her computer, her phone, etc., etc.? Does she have access to all of yours?

Third - you say she is committed to the marriage. 

In what way? Obviously, she slept with a guy just a few days ago. Not much commitment there... 

Finally (and vitally important) - you say that she doesn't search the web, or read any books. And you ask how you can enforce this. That depends on what you mean by _enforce_. If you are asking how you can MAKE her read a book, or search the web for marriage help, the answer is 'you cannot, nor should you.' That is her choice. There are other, moral ways to work on your marriage than by using threat to make someone do something. 

Even the three conditions I mentioned above are not designed as threats. They are simply conditions that your wife is free to choose or refuse. And your actions are dependent upon her choice. Nothing is designed to MAKE her do anything. 

Here's something to consider: not all people learn or grow by reading. Some people do so by discussion, some by action. 

Earlier I gave you a link to a personality quiz. This, I believe, is extremely important. When you learn how you interact, how you 'recharge' your batteries, how you learn, etc., you have a better understanding of how to do things in a way that use your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. 

Here's a link to it again - just take the 10 minutes out of your busy day to take the quest and get some results. Once you have the results, read up a bit on your 'type' here. 

The best help available would be for your wife to take this quiz as well. One nice thing about this is that it is not really connected with 'marriage recovery,' etc. That means it is not a threat to your wife. But in a subtle way, it reveals a lot more about you and she that will help you over the next few days - and the upcoming years. 

Try this: take the quiz. look up the results, and then tell her about it. Ask her if she'd try it - for fun. Just tell her it was fun, and she'll probably like it.

You'll have a lot of fun, and some good conversation.


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

1) The no contact letter was a very strongly worded text that said stay away, I cant be around you, etc.

2) We share each others access to the computer and I'll look at her mobile 

3) She said last time she just said the words but didnt let the other guy go. Now she says its a lot more real and there is no way she wants to end up with him, its me she wants.

I'm not trying to enforce her in a DO IT NOW way, I'm just saying how do you know when someone is making an effort? She doesnt talk, doesnt read, doesnt Google stuff. Do I just hope? I did the test the other day and will ask her to do it too.

The other thing I recently found out is that she is not sure what she wants! Says she loves me but more as a brother, there is a spark but its only small. I did point out that wasnt it a coincidence that she fell out of love with me just after she became infatuated with the other guy? This seemed to trigger something in her because then she said she did love me.

I have highlighted some passages in books which talks about attraction vs love, maybe its just taking a while to sink in? I basically said until this guy is out of the picture there is no chance for her to fall back in love with me and I'm not expecting miracles so soon.

I guess the bottom line is she has said so many things, and seems to chage her mind so often I'm in half a mind to just give up. I've lost a lot of weight, cant eat, cant sleep, and feel nauseus all the time. She on the other hand seems quite upbeat and just seems tired all the time.


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## Corkey88 (Sep 16, 2010)

I am sorry but from what you have written, this woman is unbalanced and likely an alcoholic. If I were you, I would get out of this relationship and find someone more respectful of you. She is treating you like a doormat. Your love can't be unconditional...you must refuse to be treated like a piece of crap. Break up with her and move on!


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I guess the bottom line is she has said so many things, and seems to chage her mind so often I'm in half a mind to just give up. I've lost a lot of weight, cant eat, cant sleep, and feel nauseus all the time. She on the other hand seems quite upbeat and just seems tired all the time.


An affair is just like an addiction. There is a period of withdrawal - where you can expect pretty much any behavior. You are right to tell her that until he is out of the picture, no growth can occur. But you need to tell yourself the same thing! Until the buzz wears off, and she is fully back, you will still find her doing or saying things that seem counter intuitive. Right now she most likely trying to figure out what SHE wants (and doing so while still under some of the fog of the 'addiction'). So she will bounce about. 

Of primary importance is to stress that she refrain from all alcohol. 

But the real matter is - how much work are _you_ willing to do on _you_ - not _her_. Your symptoms (weight loss, cant eat, cant sleep, and feel nauseous all the time) are essentially symptoms of trying to _will_ things to be different. The key to recovery is to do actual work, rather than wanting and expecting things to be different. Don't expect changes - work on changing yourself, and things will improve. 

You said you took the test: what did you learn? 

My guess is that the affair had little to do with 'love vs. attraction' - it most likely had more to do with a perceived solution to problems at home. Instead of trying to win an unspoken argument with her ("see, you didn't really _love_ him, it was just _attraction_") - try to find out what YOU may have done to contribute. Why did he attract her, and not you?

Of course, drugs n' booze have a lot to do with bad decisions....

Much of the work we suggest involving recovery is based upon finding the trouble area in the marriage and eradicating it - as well as finding out what exactly your spouse perceives as love, and doing just that.

Sure, it would really be nice to have her own up to what SHE does to hurt you, and what YOU need to feel loved - but that usually comes later in recovery. It does seem counter-intuitive for the betrayed, loyal spouse (the one who DIDN'T cheat) to be the one who takes the bull by the horns and starts the healing process - but it also is the best way to overcome the inclination within the cheating spouse to use you as the excuse for the affair. They may still blame you, but no one can really argue against someone trying to change - or make up for past wrongs. If you spend time waiting for your disloyal spouse to make that first move, it most likely will not happen. They will just see it as your way of gaining an upper hand and wanting to control them for the rest of your marriage.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I don't know that you should give up. But you should definitely give her a picture of what life would be without you. Separate finances, cut off credit cards, out her to all family and friends. I would also file for separation of divorce. She must be required to earn your love. Right now she doesn't respect you. If she doesn't respect you, she can't love you. Be strong. Do not yell. But she has to be able to envision a life without you, to know what she would be missing.


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

I have tried to tackle how I contributed, I didnt give her enough attention, I got too wrapped up in work. But I changed all that months ago, she says I did change but by then she was already in love with this other guy.

She says there is nothing wrong with me, I'm a lovely person and that I deserve someone better.

Thing is I'm really picky and this is the only person I ever wanted to spend my life with.

But the other poster is right, I'm not getting or demanding the respect. Not sure how I do that as I feel sorry for her, I know how much she has suffered with depression and I just cant get angry at her.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Indy Nial said:


> I have tried to tackle how I contributed, I didnt give her enough attention, I got too wrapped up in work. But I changed all that months ago, she says I did change but by then she was already in love with this other guy.
> 
> She says there is nothing wrong with me, I'm a lovely person and that I deserve someone better.
> 
> ...


Indy, you’ve been knocked out of centre by your wife’s affair and betrayal. Your centre of gravity is outside of you and you need to pull it back in and regain your balance and your strength. You also need to keep the inside of you protected, you need to protect your heart and soul from further damage by your wife and then they can begin to heal, given time and no more damage.

You do this by constructing boundaries. Take a look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html. It makes more sense to some than it does to others. You will know if it’s right for you or not after a 5 minute read. If it’s right for you buy the book and start constructing your boundaries.

While you’re constructing your boundaries you should “feel” fairly quickly that your inner strength and maybe inner peace return to you. When you face your wife you will do so as a somewhat different person. You will face her with a new confidence and a new firmness that you haven’t experienced. It will take a while for you and your wife to get used to it.

At this time forget and ignore every negative thing your wife calls you and says about you. Forget and ignore them. Focus on everything that is good about the man you are. This again will give you more confidence and self belief. If your wife does say negative things about you ignore them and retort with the good things about you. You may have to do this a few times before she gets what’s going on.

She will self a self confident good man who knows himself well and knows the good things about himself and a man who will not tolerate being abused.

Good luck.

Bob


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Bob is absolutely right. Unless you construct those boundaries, you will continually find yourself sick, anxious, and on and on. That is a large part of the work that I've been suggesting throughout this thread - both by exploring exactly what it is that you find necessary in order for your love to grow and in finding out what hurts you the most.

What I've tried to point out is that your wife ALSO has the same type of 'structure' - she has needs as well. You say that you 'already changed' it all, months ago - and that your wife says '...there is nothing wrong with me, I'm a lovely person and that I deserve someone better...'

Your wife's words are a COMMON dismissal for her having to do any change. It is common disloyal script, its the words of an addict who wants the drug back - even if it costs them you. 

But as for "you already did all the work" - I challenge you on that. Many people do what they _assume_ is what their spouse needs from them. And assumptions very often precede, or accompany, an affair. That is because the person doing the changes is changing what THEY expect their spouse to want from them, rather than deliberately finding out what DOES affect their spouse the most. 

That is why the Love Busters, Emotional Needs, Love Kindlers, and Love Extinguishers questionnaires are so helpful. They remove the effect assumptions have on the relationship by bringing things into stark, full color reality. They eliminate the doubt - both by revealing _to you_ what YOUR needs are (in other words, they help you define them, rather than 'describe' them) and also give your spouse concrete things to do.

You write that "... I didn't give her enough attention, I got too wrapped up in work...."

Those are very often major troubles - but at the same time, I've found, over the years, that those are handy things that can be stated as reasons for an affair - without going deeper into the relationship. What I mean is that these two very common reasons are given much of the time as justification for the affair - but _very often_ there are more issues, sometime even much more important. 

Some possibilities: 

1) By giving you those reasons, she gave some justification for the affair without actually naming things that were really hurting - reasons why an affair seemed to be a solution.

2) You assumed that these were the causes of marital troubles and went about changing them. This is not a bad thing - they definitely need to change. But the fact that these problems existed does not negate the fact that there are most likely other, deeper and more profound troubles. 

As for not getting (and not demanding) respect - that is an issue that recovers over time. Many people demand respect - but do nothing to warrant it. On the other hand, an affair is a blatant display of lack of respect (she could have approached you with the problems and worked it out with you. She choose the WRONG solution.)



> Not sure how I do that as I feel sorry for her, I know how much she has suffered with depression and I just cant get angry at her.


Not to be mean, or anything, but my experience has been that as long as you continue to feel sorry for her, the depression will continue. It is an effective passive means of control. Unless her depression is chemical (her body is chemically creating the problem) it is simply a choice made - a way of dealing with problems. And many doctors prescribe meds to deal with a chemical imbalance to people who do not have that imbalance. The result of that IS an imbalance, creating a need for more meds...never ending cycle. Great for pharmaceutical companies. Not so good for the family of the patient. 

I don't see _any _reason to get angry at her _at all_. Why wait for an emotional experience before you do what should be done? Set up boundaries around yourself (NOT HER!) and allow her to choose to respect them or not. If she is serious about your marriage - she will!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Set up boundaries around yourself (NOT HER!) and allow her to choose to respect them or not. If she is serious about your marriage - she will!


That's the way Indy, that's the work that needs to be done. Should take just a few days a week at the most. After that it's an evolving process.

Just be civil to your wife while you're constructing your boundaries. Good morning, good evening etc. All other dynamics between you will be dysfunctional. Any other dynamics other than civil will hurt you and you don’t need that. That hurt and pain has got to stop and you are the one that stops it by building your boundaries. Right now your lack of boundaries is letting your wife right into the very core of you, who you are, in a very damaging way. Boundaries stop that, prevent it from happening.

While you are building your boundaries you will begin to recognise and accept all that is good about you as a man and a husband. I reckon right now you are massively “underselling yourself”. That needs to change and it will change big time.

Bob


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Am I hallucinating or are Bob and Tanelorn ... *AGREEING!*  

LOL 

For some practical suggestions, let me first point out that a boundary is not telling your wife what she can and can not do or demanding that she <insert something here>--but rather it is like putting a little fence around yourself. It is a statement of what you will and will not allow in your life. 

For example, one boundary I have in my life is that I will only accept a life partner who honors their commitment to give me 100% of their affection and loyalty. I won't share with another woman and I don't want part of some percent less than 100%. If it's not 100% then you don't have me. But I can also say that I don't force anyone to stay with me or "expect it." Every day my Dear Hubby is fully capable of choosing to give less than 100% of give some to someone else...in which case I would exercise my boundary. Does that make sense? 

So you have the evidence that there is an ongoing affair. You know you can trust yourself and your instincts (in other words...it's not "in your head" or you just being jealous). So the question now becomes what are you going to do about it? Are you going to love your wife enough to do what's in the best interest of the marriage, or are you going to sit on your hands? Are you going to love yourself enough to face your issues, work on them, and set a boundary of faithfulness and nothing less? 

I strongly suggest you take some time to yourself--today and/or tomorrow--and figure out a few of these answers and then let us know if you're going to be the knight fighting for your marriage. Okay?


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

**END OF MARRIAGE**

So this morning whilst getting ready for work I check her phone, there is a text from him saying he dreams of her.

I flip out demand to know whats going on, she hasnt texted him but apparently he was round her friends. After all the promises and importance of not being anywhere near him this was just too much to take. 

I just dont see how the marriage can progress any further and she agrees. Says she doesnt know what she wants. We're both pretty amicable about it. Who knows what happens now...

Interesting side note on respect : when I presented the phone to her and asked what the hell was going one, I was very firm with her that I should have the phone and had a bit of a debate. Anyway, this seemed to really turn her on and she wanted sex there and then! I cant remember the last time my wife kissed me so passionately, ultimately I turned her down because I felt if I gave in then I might feel cheated later on.


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## bestplayer (Jan 23, 2010)

Indy Nial said:


> **END OF MARRIAGE**
> 
> So this morning whilst getting ready for work I check her phone, there is a text from him saying he dreams of her.
> 
> ...


Still it seems that you haven't been able to stand up for yourself . you are acting like a doormat , so no one would be surprised if after some time you find out that she is still cheating on you & you will be willing to forgive her .


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Indy Nial said:


> **END OF MARRIAGE**
> 
> So this morning whilst getting ready for work I check her phone, there is a text from him saying he dreams of her.
> 
> ...


Best not to go there with the sex. That’s what she’s using with you and with TOM. Well done.

We either take ourselves out the fighting ring, or we eject ourselves out of it. Sounds like you’ve done the latter but I’m guessing it’s not permanent and you will step back in. Why? Because your getting out by ejecting out was based on powerful emotions.

Stay out of the ring for a while. But make the staying out based on rational thinking, not on emotions. Your emotions are quite literally dictating your behaviour. Men are more than that.

Stay out of the ring and build those boundaries. That way you choose your own ground from which to go forward. Just like a Man.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Indy, when you are responding to your emotions in an emotional way you are using just around 5% of your brain mass, the limbic system. It’s an auto response system and can quite literally bypass the other 95% of what’s there.

That is what your wife wants to happen. She is truly leading you a merry emotional dance, like a puppet on a string. She may be very aware of what she is doing. It is a frightening thought. She has the remote control for your emotions, turning you on and off at a whim.

You have to take the remote control for your emotions out of her hands. You do that with boundaries.

The other 95% of your brain is there for a reason. Why are you ignoring it?

If this helps, view your wife as a seven/eight year old child who's seriously crossing boundaries with bad behaviour. And then ask yourself how you would deal with a child.

Bob


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

I think this one is out of my hands now. I thought I could deal intelligently and rationally with this but over the course of the day while we were talking all the past just kept rising up. We started arguing pretty loudly, I threatened to cut off all credit cards etc, things got very shouty and she called a friend to pick her up, I wrestled the phone off her and threw it against the wall in anger. From then on she just looked really scared of me and then left.

All the emotions came to the surface and its really starting to hit home now that this is the end.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Indy Nial said:


> I think this one is out of my hands now. I thought I could deal intelligently and rationally with this but over the course of the day while we were talking all the past just kept rising up. We started arguing pretty loudly, I threatened to cut off all credit cards etc, things got very shouty and she called a friend to pick her up, I wrestled the phone off her and threw it against the wall in anger. From then on she just looked really scared of me and then left.
> 
> All the emotions came to the surface and its really starting to hit home now that this is the end.


Take a look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...tion/17548-woman-s-resentment.html#post194872.

It may make sense to you.

Bob


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## Corkey88 (Sep 16, 2010)

It is not a coincident that when you stand up for yourself, she begins to realize that you are not a dish rag, you gain confidence and she is turned on by it. Women in general need to respect their man. If you act like a floor mat, she will walk all over you and run to a man who won't let her do that. 

There is something to be said for the preemptive break-up as described on Seinfeld. I think if you really, really want to salvage this relationship, breaking up with her is the first step. Then she knows a) you are not taking her bs anymore and b) she will realize what she is missing. Then she comes back, you let her know your limits - what you are willing to take and what you won't. This is not baseball and she doesn't get any more strikes. Try this and see where it gets you.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Corkey88 said:


> It is not a coincident that when you stand up for yourself, she begins to realize that you are not a dish rag, you gain confidence and she is turned on by it. Women in general need to respect their man. If you act like a floor mat, she will walk all over you and run to a man who won't let her do that.
> 
> There is something to be said for the preemptive break-up as described on Seinfeld. I think if you really, really want to salvage this relationship, breaking up with her is the first step. Then she knows a) you are not taking her bs anymore and b) she will realize what she is missing. Then she comes back, you let her know your limits - what you are willing to take and what you won't. This is not baseball and she doesn't get any more strikes. Try this and see where it gets you.


I for one so agree with that. They come back on our terms. Not theirs. But by then we may just not want them back. They will be too submissive to live with.

They have broken something that was pure. It's never the same again.

Bob


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice so far, it is helping and I am in the process of defining the bounderies that I am happy with.

Although we have agreed to seperate, she has no job (not worked for 8 years), no way of supporting herself and is therefore sleeping in the same bed as me. She says short term she can share our daughters room.

I ask her what she wants, she says she doesnt know. She smiles at me gives me hugs me and acts as though all is well. Does she see a future with this guy - maybe. She still cares a great deal for me and feels comfortable with me. She loves her home and doesnt want to move out.

I've told her that if she really cares about me then she will move out and let me try and rebuild my life. I cant move forward worrying if she is going to see this other guy while trying to be all friendly with me. If its over, its over and I can get closure and move on.

She is really confused and part of me wants to help her but as I've told her, I cant help her unless she helps herself.

After months of talking to her about this the problem as far as I see it is this :
- felt neglected by me for last 2 years (I spent too many evenings with my PC not her)
- At the same time was dealing with a few tragic events and depressed and suffered fron anxiety attacks
- this guy came along and gave her the attention, made her feel good, when she is with him anxiety attacks are masked
- wonders if she has been depressed because of our marriage

She cant keep away from this guy and I've foolishly tried to influence her onto the right path. I've done everything I can, I'm happy with myself and am working on myself. I'm now at the point where I just have to let her go and allow her to make whatever choices she has to make.

The only possilbe options I can see right now are..

1) She moves out with other guy or friends house
2) She stays, cuts off all contact with other guy and work on marriage

The problem with point 2 is that I cannot trust her, and she says she cant trust herself. This only really leaves me 1 option, doesnt it?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Indy, you're doing well. What do you know about the other man?

Know thi enemy. Find out as much as you possibly can, may hurt but I would do that.

I knew the guy my wife had an EA with, he was a mate at one time. Three divorces, multiple affairs and a lightning, uncontrollable temper. Plus he tried to get a supposed buddies wife away from him.

I’m not one to be messed with in that way. I brought TOMs history into the forefront of my wife’s mind and told her if she wants to be with that sort of guy he can have her, booked her a ticket and sent her on her way. She came back 2 months later.

I told myself a long time ago that if my wife had an affair I would put the responsibility 100% on her, not TOM. We all get hit on as time goes by. For me, it is not the fact that we get hit on, it’s what we do with it that’s the overriding consideration. I’ve always had that boundary. I just don’t blame TOM or myself. It is 100% my wife’s responsibility what she does with her life and therefore for the affair.

Bob


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

Hi Indy, 
please ensure if you will consider to trust her or not. if u still have doubt on it maybe you need some time after that you could decide what wil be your further action towards to her.


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## MrHurting (Sep 12, 2010)

Indy,

You know that my situation is very simliar to yours. For what it's worth, I feel that you have taken the right steps (as have I in my situation) to commit yourself to the relationship and making changes in yourself to show her you love and care for her. Much like my wife, she has not been able to commit herself to the relationship, instead is hung up on the 'high' she gets from the affair. Don't let yourself be a doormat, set your guidelines, prepare yourself for the worst, and stick by your word. In my situation I am hoping that sticking to my word she will realize I am not going to sit on the sideline for her to make a decision, and more importantly not continue to be betrayed and lied to on a daily basis.


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