# Offensive or not?



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Would you consider being called "helicopter parent" something as offensive as "you are more stupid than I thought"?

We had this conversation last night with my husband, and this is always touchy subject. But that's not the point. I told him (without any mean intent, it was matter of fact for me) "You are a helicopter parent". He got up and left the area saying "and you are even more stupid than I thought". When I told him there is no need for name calling, he said I started first by calling him "helicopter" parent. 

I do not believe that these two are equally offensive. "helicopter parent" is just a parenting attitude that i do not share, and that's it for me. Would you consider it offensive? As offensive as calling someone 'stupid"?

(as a background info - aggressive arguments and name calling by my husband are the biggest issue in my long term marriage. It is improving now, after I said last December that I want divorce, but there are still hic cups now and then).


----------



## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

It sounds like it was offensive to him...and really that is what matters.

Mind you, his response was also offensive to you...

Both of you are 100% responsible your words.

ETA: It IS a disrespectful judgement.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Not at all the same in my opinion. He's the name caller in this story, not you.

Hugs....been there....still there....


----------



## Bam85 (Feb 13, 2015)

Parenting styles are so vast and such a personal experience. Unless someone abuses their child, there's no shame in any of them. In my experience, it's the "helicopter parents" that tend to get touchy and easily offended. I have a friend who's like that. She's a wonderful parent who (in my opinion) hovers way too much. It's understandable being that she gave birth to premature twins who had a host of medical problems. However, she always rants about other people's comments. She was even upset with a pediatrician for making comments about looking after the baby's weight more.

There's nothing wrong with hovering over your children if it feels right and one feels like they're accomplishing more with that method. The only thing two different parents will agree on is that the 3rd parents methods suck lol. It's nothing to be upset about.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Helicopter parent really has become a pejorative term, and is very rarely, if ever used in a positive context. I imagine you were not calling him that as a compliment were you?


----------



## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

If that is all he was reacting to, then I agree your husband's insult was overboard and in my view completely unacceptable. Even without reading your last paragraph, I had to assume that either he was really reacting to something else in the conversation, even just the tone, or he is extremely thin skinned and angry as a general rule.

However, although I wouldn't find it personally offensive, the true helicopter parents I know would find it deeply offensive since it is an area in their life where they are devoid of humour or perspective. For helicopter parenst every step in child rearing is about urgency and panic because their child is one missed extra activity or failed test away from disaster. 

It still is not justification from calling your spouse stupid.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

In my experience, about the quickest way to piss anyone off is to criticize their parenting. The devotion one has for their own kids is a really sensitive subject. Our parenting is something we either learned from our parents or we deliberately learned a new path. Telling someone they aren't parenting "right" is either saying they weren't raised right, they are stupid, or they don't care about their own kids. 

If name-calling is a problem in your marriage, it would seem to be a good idea to avoid name-calling. 

If my wife had announced her intention to divorce me and then started picking apart my parenting skills, I would logically take it as a sign that she intended to portray me as an unfit parent in divorce court. That would be a pretty ugly threat. If the idea is to make this marriage work, belittling his parenting style is counterproductive. If the idea is to divorce him, telegraphing your future intentions regarding child custody is also counterproductive. 
I can't imagine anything positive that could arise out of one parent criticizing the parenting skills of their parenting partner, so why do it?


----------



## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Any situation like this will ALWAYS be lose/lose if the focus on who is wounded more.

Instead BOTH of you should be taking responsibility for your words and stop trying to figure out who is "more right" or "more justified"...

wasted energy IMO


----------



## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

The term "helicopter parents" is a pejorative expression for parents that has been widely used in the media.

The metaphor appeared as early as 1969 in the bestselling book Between Parent & Teenager by Dr. Haim Ginott, which mentions a teen who complains: "Mother hovers over me like a helicopter..."(from Wikipedia)

Telling you that you are more stupid then he originally thought really says more about him....

A 20 year study of the Darwin Awards, an annual review of the most foolish way people have died, found almost 90 per cent were 'won' by males. 


Named after Charles Darwin, who postulated the survival of the fittest, it recognizes those who have inadvertently improved the gene pool by eliminating themselves from the human race by astonishingly stupid methods."


The term "Helicopter parent" is a description of parenting styles, while "more stupid than I thought" is conjecture, opinion, and commonly used as a last parting shot in verbal battle defeat.

And I have called my H a helicopter parent too, because he is, and he knows it.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Ugh, I can't stand helicopter parents!

No, being called a helicopter parent refers to attitude and actions neither of which are character traits. While being called stupid, in the way that your H said it, is extraordinarily insulting on several levels. It implies that you LOOK stupid. It implies that you ARE stupid.

Wanda, I personally would not consider staying with a man who could allow insults like that to fly off his tongue. The two statements in your post do not compare. 

The next time he insults you you have to be prepared with immediate action. Do NOT enter into discussion with him because his child like reasoning and defensiveness will not allow for discussion.

First rule of argument, I mean discussion, is to name the behavior not the character. "You're acting like a helicopter parent" "you are behaving rather stupidly." While these are still hurtful, they're not direct insults. Whenever I want to say stupid I substitute silly. Stupid is just mean, while silly indicates a lack of thought.

But, you two are locked in a battle that cannot be won. Purposely hurting your spouse with name calling (which is what your H did) is very different from inadvertently hurting them by naming their behavior (which is what you did.) you both hurt each other, one on purpose the other inadvertently. You both need to own that your words were hurtful to the other. You both need to sincerely make an effort to OWN what you did, OWN how you hurt the other, and OWN your efforts to stop doing that.

"Husband, I'm sorry I called you a helicopter parent. I did not mean to insult or hurt you but I can see that I have. I will put more effort into word choice so that I do not make you feel insulted."

Then leave it at that. You are responsible ONLY for what comes out of your mouth. Be the kind of person you want to be and that is not someone who insults their spouse. Because you know how much that hurts.

If your H doesn't also apologize, deeply and profoundly because his insult was a purposeful hit, you really should consider whether this is the kind of man you can be married to. He doesn't accept responsibility for himself too well and like a child he blames his mistakes on you, because you hurt him first.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> The term "helicopter parents" is a pejorative expression for parents that has been widely used in the media.
> 
> The metaphor appeared as early as 1969 in the bestselling book Between Parent & Teenager by Dr. Haim Ginott, which mentions a teen who complains: "Mother hovers over me like a helicopter..."(from Wikipedia)
> 
> ...


Yeah, it is a description of a parenting style...one that is rarely used as a compliment, and almost always used as an insult to one degree or another.

Sort of like calling someone "b1tchy" as a descriptor of their personality style, and then trying to claim it just a descriptor, and not insulting because after all, I love my Sheltie, and she's female.


----------



## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Yeah, it is a description of a parenting style...one that is rarely used as a compliment, and almost always used as an insult to one degree or another.
> 
> Sort of like calling someone "b1tchy" as a descriptor of their personality style, and then trying to claim it just a descriptor, and not insulting because after all, I love my Sheltie, and she's female.


Well, being a helicopter parent IS a negative, especially to the child, and it ain't no picnic for the other parent either...

That said, I love shelties too! Sadly, none of mine were b!tches


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Ugh, I can't stand helicopter parents!
> 
> No, being called a helicopter parent refers to attitude and actions neither of which are character traits. While being called stupid, in the way that your H said it, is extraordinarily insulting on several levels. It implies that you LOOK stupid. It implies that you ARE stupid.
> 
> ...


I'm not so sure about this...I think we need more context on the argument, because calling someone a helicopter parent, most of the time IS meant to be insulting...on purpose.

WandaJ...being completely honest in how things went down...did you call him a helicopter parent as a compliment or insult?

ETA: The only reason I am keeping on the helicopter parent thing and not addressing the calling her stupid part is because calling her stupid was clearly out of line...no question...full stop.


----------



## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> I'm not so sure about this...I think we need more context on the argument, because calling someone a helicopter parent, most of the time IS meant to be insulting.
> 
> WandaJ...being completely honest in how things went down...did you call him a helicopter parent as a compliment or insult?


Or statement of fact???


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Yeah, it is a description of a parenting style...one that is rarely used as a compliment, and almost always used as an insult to one degree or another.
> 
> Sort of like calling someone "b1tchy" as a descriptor of their personality style, and then trying to claim it just a descriptor, and not insulting because after all, I love my Sheltie, and she's female.


Are you suggesting that the insult he purposely threw at her was mitigated by her calling out his parenting? That's ...silly. 

I never mind being called a b'tch. But call me stupid and my vicious canines drop, the gloves come off and my hackles are raised.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> Or statement of fact???


Oh, I am sure he probably IS a helicopter parent. I'm not questioning that, but that still does not excuse the use of a pejorative term to express it in the heat of an argument.


----------



## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Oh, I am sure he probably IS a helicopter parent. I'm not questioning that, but that still does not excuse the use of a pejorative term to express it in the heat of an argument.


Apparently it doesn't bother my H...he just laughs and says "and proud of it" and makes some comment about no kidnappings or unwed pregnancies on his watch...


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Are you suggesting that the insult he purposely threw at her was mitigated by *her calling out his parenting?* That's ...silly.
> 
> I never mind being called a b'tch. But call me stupid and my vicious canines drop, the gloves come off and my hackles are raised.


Mitigate by her calling it out in an insulting way? No, but she threw the first insult. Should he have taken the high road, and not responded to the insult with another insult? Absolutely. Given his history, that does make it impossible to cut him any slack, but his history and behaviour does not mitigate her behavior either.


----------



## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

Calling someone a helicopter parent IS insulting. Parents are bombarded in the media that everything from accidents to sickness is preventable. That if your child does something wrong it was your parenting that caused your child to be that way. "helicopter parents" experience a lot of guilt for things that haven't even happened yet. They don't want to let their kids down, but wind up smothering them instead...the INTENT behind overly cautious parenting comes out of deep seated love for their child. Worry and concern about their safety. So when one is called a helicopter parent you are questioning not only their parenting skills but you are also belittle the reasons that they feel they have to protect their children. Helicopter parenting is not the same as controlling/narcissistic parenting.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> Apparently it doesn't bother my H...he just laughs and says "and proud of it" and makes some comment about no kidnappings or unwed pregnancies on his watch...


And one very effective strategy for dealing with insulting language is to embrace it...tons of examples...gay, queer, n***, you name it. Even though one person embraces it does not mean it is no longer insulting, especially when it is still societally considered a pejorative.

I still think we need to know more of the context here. Did WandaJ know this was something her husband would be insulted by? Did she mean it as an insult in the context of the argument?


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

She hurt him.... he hurt her back.... does the fact they the hurts weren't exactly on the same level matter that much? Since we're at play ground level anyway, don't these things typically escalate with each following comment? As already mentioned, you both need to own your stuff. Time for a few deep breaths, apologies and how about a hug.....

Its been interesting to watch the alternative term of "free range parenting" being used in the media. I was a free range kid.


----------



## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

I recently referred to myself as an "off the grid parent".


----------



## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> I do not believe that these two are equally offensive. "helicopter parent" is just a parenting attitude that i do not share, and that's it for me. Would you consider it offensive? As offensive as calling someone 'stupid"?


Both comments were taken offensively and both parties felt insulted by the other. Matters not if they were equally offensive.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Yes, I probably should not have said what I said. But I still do not think it calls for invective like this. He was becoming more and more aggressive in discussion, that's when I said. There was no room for any discussion anymore at that point.

We always have problem to continue discussions when our opinions are different. He is becoming increasingly aggressive and sees it as personal attack when I don't agree with him. For him is so obvious that he is right, that he has hard time believing that I simply have different opinion, that I am not saying things just to piss him off. 
We actually had to talk about it, this is what he said "that he thinks I am saying different things such to make him mad". The idea that we may simply not seeing eye to eye on something seemed foreign to this guy. I never know what will set him off, although he is doing much better now.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I have heard calling a parent a "helicopter parent" is not a positive description of one's parenting ability.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> Yes, *I probably should not have said what I said*. But I still do not think it calls for invective like this. He was becoming more and more aggressive in discussion, that's when I said. There was no room for any discussion anymore at that point.
> 
> We always have problem to continue discussions when our opinions are different. He is becoming increasingly aggressive and sees it as personal attack when I don't agree with him. For him is so obvious that he is right, that he has hard time believing that I simply have different opinion, that I am not saying things just to piss him off.
> We actually had to talk about it, this is what he said "that he thinks I am saying different things such to make him mad". The idea that we may simply not seeing eye to eye on something seemed foreign to this guy. I never know what will set him off, although he is doing much better now.


Probably? 

Contrary to what your husband called you, you're not stupid. From your initial post, and then this post, I think you had a good idea that he was not going to take this as simply a statement of fact, but rather an insult. I get the feeling that you were, on some level, needling him with this, given the already tense context of the situation.


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Shoto1984 said:


> She hurt him.... he hurt her back.... does the fact they the hurts weren't exactly on the same level matter that much? Since we're at play ground level anyway, don't these things typically escalate with each following comment? As already mentioned, you both need to own your stuff. Time for a few deep breaths, apologies and how about a hug.....


:iagree:

You were both hurt. You insulted his parenting and he called you a name. Both hurt. I wouldn't waste your time or energy trying to figure out which one is "worse". 

If you don't like how he is acting, then talk about the specific actions instead of calling him a name(helicopter parent). The term is never used in a positive way and I think you know that. I would not be happy about being called a helicopter parent myself, even if I did some of those types of actions.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

WandaJ said:


> We always have problem to continue discussions when our opinions are different. He is becoming increasingly aggressive and sees it as personal attack when I don't agree with him. For him is so obvious that he is right, that he has hard time believing that I simply have different opinion, that I am not saying things just to piss him off.
> We actually had to talk about it, this is what he said "that he thinks I am saying different things such to make him mad". The idea that we may simply not seeing eye to eye on something seemed foreign to this guy. I never know what will set him off, although he is doing much better now.


Wanda, if you haven't tried already, do you think you both might be able to agree on some rules of engagement? I haven't read all the books but there is a lot about "fair fighting" and similar concepts out there.


----------



## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

You wanted to hurt and diminish him with what you said and he reacted in kind. Stop trying to hurt each other.

Seasalt


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Spouses are human beings. Sometimes we lash out in anger, and no one knows how better to push our buttons than our SO - which is probably exactly what the "helicopter parent" was intended to do. And you received in kind.

I'm not in the camp who thinks this sort of thing falls into the relationship extermination category, unless it becomes chronic. Just like learning to communicate is an essential relationship skill, so is growing a thicker skin when we poke the bear. And let's face it - we all do once in a while, all this wonderful advice about how we probably _should_ behave notwithstanding.


----------



## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

To me the helicopter parent is the worse comment. JMHO, but in stating that, you basically told him that he is incompetent and unable of being a good parent. That he is hurting his kids. That is a hard thing to hear when you are not defensive. But he was in an argument and anything you were saying he was trying to defend himself against. And you went there knowing it would bother him. Basically, you hit him with your words. Y'all need help, some may call it not fighting fair, but I would call it abuse. You speak of aggressive arguments being one of the big issues of your marriage. Well then fix it. Because you are being so busy about "right to be insulted" that you are not even thinking about "oh no, I hurt my partner".

Don't mean to rub salt in the wound, just my take as a former codependent who was verbally abused for years.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Gonna Make It said:


> Y'all need help, some may call it not fighting fair, but I would call it abuse.


And that waters down the definition of the word abuse to utter meaninglessness, for by that definition there's hardly a couple living under the same roof who wouldn't qualify as serial abusers. 

Partners will have fights, and words will be spoken in frustration and anger that wouldn't be uttered under calmer circumstances. Not every partner can rise to the level of a Noam Chomsky in a marital spat, even if we should perhaps try.


----------



## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

So what if she had said, "I slapped him then he punched me". Would you say what you just did Cletus? After all, we all from time to time want to just haul off and hit our spouse because they are making us so darned mad. Maybe we should all strive to be Mahatma Ghandi, but most of us will never be.

Does that sound ridiculous to you? Because that is what I hear from you. "Sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you" is one of the biggest lies we teach our kids. Most of us, if we are honest, cannot remember that many fights we got into when we were 5 or 6, but we can still remember how those words someone said from back then made us feel. Words are weapons. They are sharper than any two edged sword. They will cut you in a second. And you are the one who has control over letting them out or not. She chose to let them out in anger. There is a reason that the Bible talks about the power over life and death being in the tongue. Because we can kill someone we love with the words we choose to hurl at them.

Again, just my take on it.

And yes, I think that a lot more people in society are abusers than we acknowledge. I think it is a learned behavior that we learned from our parents and we just do not want to learn self control.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Gonna Make It said:


> Does that sound ridiculous to you? Because that is what I hear from you. "Sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you" is one of the biggest lies we teach our kids. Most of us, if we are honest, cannot remember that many fights we got into when we were 5 or 6, but we can still remember how those words someone said from back then made us feel.


I can't remember a single verbal fight I have ever been in with someone, but I sure as hell remember every punch traded in anger. 

Calling everyone an abuser is the same as calling everyone special. It dilutes the term into meaningless. But that's just MY take on it.


----------



## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

What kind of response were you looking for? 

Something like "gee honey, your right I never thought of that"?

You baited him and he responded. In my eyes his response was more insulting but then you started it.


----------



## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Did you know that just under 50% of men and women have experienced psychological aggression in their lifetime in the US? 48.4% of women and 48.8% of men. Just a little statistic from the CDC and the national domestic violence center. Maybe it is more common than you think.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Gonna Make It said:


> Did you know that just under 50% of men and women have experienced psychological aggression in their lifetime in the US? 48.4% of women and 48.8% of men. Just a little statistic from the Bureau of Justice Statistics of the Department of Justice and the national domestic violence center. Maybe it is more common than you think.


Psychological abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"As of 1996,[4] there are "no consensus views about the definition of emotional abuse." As such, clinicians and researchers have offered sometimes divergent definitions of emotional abuse. However, the widely used Conflict Tactics Scale measures roughly twenty distinct acts of "psychological aggression" in three different categories:

Verbal aggression (e.g., saying something that upsets or annoys someone else);"

50% of the population sounds low to me.


----------



## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

Feel free to completely disregard this advice as I am pretty messed up myself but sometimes people think they are the better person because they don't yell or call names. They DO, however, know which wounds to poke at. They DO have a way of questioning you and making you feel small. They DO have a way of undermining you. They DO have a way of backing you into an emotional corner.

This exchange does remind me of a school yard fight and the picked upon kid gets frustrated and says "oh yeah? Well... well...you're a stupid poopy head!"


----------



## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

The OPs argument sounds EXACTLY the same problem I had with my STBX. She also either could not or would not get the connotation of the words she used. I think it is just due to incompatibility in communication styles and personality types.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

WandaJ said:


> Would you consider being called "helicopter parent" something as offensive as "you are more stupid than I thought"?
> 
> We had this conversation last night with my husband, and this is always touchy subject. But that's not the point. I told him (without any mean intent, it was matter of fact for me) "You are a helicopter parent". He got up and left the area saying "and you are even more stupid than I thought". When I told him there is no need for name calling, he said I started first by calling him "helicopter" parent.
> 
> ...


Regardless of whether he was offended, I would never stay married to a man who called me stupid. I don't understand why you do.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> In my experience, about the quickest way to piss anyone off is to criticize their parenting. The devotion one has for their own kids is a really sensitive subject. Our parenting is something we either learned from our parents or we deliberately learned a new path. Telling someone they aren't parenting "right" is either saying they weren't raised right, they are stupid, or they don't care about their own kids.
> 
> If name-calling is a problem in your marriage, it would seem to be a good idea to avoid name-calling.
> 
> ...


First - even if it comes to divorce, child custody won't be an issue. I belive that children need both parents, even more in case of divorce. He believes that too. That's one of the things we agree on.

I wasn't really picking on his parentling skills. This was actually more of my response to him argumenting (in such way that does not accept diffent opinion) that my attitude might not be responsible and child endangering .

This was the moment when all rational discussion was not possible anymore. I've been there hudreds of times. Sometimes I let it go and say nothing, and go do my things. But you cannot go through life shutting up every time not to make your spouse angry. You have enough at one point.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> I
> 
> WandaJ...being completely honest in how things went down...did you call him a helicopter parent as a compliment or insult?
> .


Frankly, it was my helplessness talking. He was making quite clear in his arguments that any other attitude is irresponsible.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Shoto1984 said:


> Wanda, if you haven't tried already, do you think you both might be able to agree on some rules of engagement? I haven't read all the books but there is a lot about "fair fighting" and similar concepts out there.


thanks, defintitetly something to look into. Although I am waiting second month for him to ready LL and Love Busters (where the first three busters are exactly in my marriage)


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Spouses are human beings. Sometimes we lash out in anger, and no one knows how better to push our buttons than our SO - which is probably exactly what the "helicopter parent" was intended to do. And you received in kind.
> 
> I'm not in the camp who thinks this sort of thing falls into the relationship extermination category, unless it becomes chronic. Just like learning to communicate is an essential relationship skill, so is growing a thicker skin when we poke the bear. And let's face it - we all do once in a while, all this wonderful advice about how we probably _should_ behave notwithstanding.


Cletus, it was chronic. After twenty years I have grown as much of a thick skin as I was able. Being called "stupid" is on the "meh" side for me of all the things I have been called in the past. I have reached breaking point in December, and I had my thread about it. 

so , what's going on now it's BIG Improvement. What happened yesterday I consider just a hi cup, I've been well trained to take insults, as you can see. I am pretty sure, we'll apologize to each other tonight and keep going. But the hurt stays there.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I wouldn't be insulted unless things were heated and my wife was on thin ice already.

I think calling you stupid was uncalled for. I am usually pretty open to examine myself and have thick skin as long as I feel my wife has my back and loves me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

4x4 said:


> The OPs argument sounds EXACTLY the same problem I had with my STBX. She also either could not or would not get the connotation of the words she used. I think it is just due to incompatibility in communication styles and personality types.


I'm sorry to hear that. I only hope you did not call her all the names I've been called in the past...


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

turnera said:


> Regardless of whether he was offended, I would never stay married to a man who called me stupid. I don't understand why you do.


turenera, 'stupid" is one of the lighter names I've been called in the last twenty years. I've been trained well, as you can see, lol. 

On serious note, we hit breaking point last fall. Now we trying, most of the times it works.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Doesn't sound like it.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

turnera said:


> Doesn't sound like it.


Why not? OP says things are better - she's the one actually there. People don't change bad habits completely overnight, especially when a little riled up.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If I'm called a helicopter parent I wear the title with pride. My two girls in college are awesome and we are very close. I do hover around them a lot even from afar but it's all a plan to get them to make a gradual, well adjusted launch and succeed in life.

Name calling depends on the circumstances. I come from a very self deprecating culture and I am my worst critic at times. But I would not use the sane terminology on someone else...


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Thank you for all the input. It is easier for me now to see, how he could take it as offensive, although I still believe that there are other responses more apprpriate. I make mistakes too, and being called "stupid" every time it happens does not work well in the relationship. Twenty years ago I would cry and hurt like hell. Today I am just shrugging it off, but wonder how much longer will I take it. 

I am sure we will solve it tonight, and apologize to each other. We both know we were on the brink of disaester just few month ago, so we are carefully trying not to let smaller things like to get us off track. There is a lot of resentment and hurt on both sides, so things can get heated easily. Our love languages are opposite of each other. Now I can see that we have incompatible personalites, but that wasn't obvious twenty years ago. We have to deal wiht what we've got now.

On the side note, I have notice that many men here underestimate how name calling affects women. Please don't. This is something that really kills relationship for us. What goes among buddies, doesn't always go in romantic relationship. You can tell by the comment of other women.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cletus said:


> Why not? OP says things are better - she's the one actually there. People don't change bad habits completely overnight, especially when a little riled up.


If her mother were to hear him talk to her like that, would her mother be ok with their relationship?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

On another note, regarding helicopter parents and all their downfalls, try having your husband watch this show with you; might open his eyes:
World’s Worst Mom | Discovery Life


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Why not? OP says things are better - she's the one actually there. People don't change bad habits completely overnight, especially when a little riled up.


You are right. My marriage was hell just six month ago, I was so detached, that I wrote on my thread that I'm done with this man for good. IT was not possible to continue like this, we had to either divorce, or start working on it. That was a wake up call for him.He has changed a lot. And thanks to several posters who shared their experiences wiht me on my thread, I know it takes time, and it is possible. or may be possible. 

We will see. I am surprised myself that I was able to engage again in this relationship. It will never be perfect, and there are parts of that will never again open up to him, there it too much hurt. But as woundedwarrior said "Life is easier, although magic is gone"


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wanda, here is an important first (or third, or fifth) step in fixing that marriage: Not accepting being called a hurtful name. If he's insulted being called a helicopter parent, apologize for choosing something that he finds offensive...BUT refuse to back down on your beliefs. Men are by nature more aggressive and women simply have to learn how to stand up for their own rights. You've had a lot of trouble in that area. You have to KEEP working on it. 

An important step toward that is refusing to allow yourself to be called horrible names like stupid. Just stop. Ok? 

Apologize if he is truly offended (I highly doubt it), and THEN say 'but I cannot stay in this relationship if you're going to call me names you wouldn't say in front of your own mother. Starting with stupid. I have to ask you to stop using such harmful words and if you decide you can't - or won't - stop using such words, I will have to protect myself from your choices with consequences.'

That's how you get him to stop. Buy enacting those consequences. Raise your voice? I leave the room. Call me stupid? I leave the house. Your choice - control your language or lose time with me.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You are generous, Turnera. I think I would just have to leave a man who called me names.


----------



## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Wanda, I would like to compliment you for your stick-to-it-iveness. Where you were at, checked out of the relationship, to where you are now, took a lot of hard work on your part, and your husband is lucky to have you.

You mention that both of you are trying to not get tripped up by the little things, and I think that is also good.

In answer to the question you originally posed, yeah, I have to think that getting called "stupid" trumps "helicopter parent," and that you have some justification for feeling like you received the greater insult.

I have one small bit of perspective that might help a little.

You've read plenty of TAM threads, so I know you've run across some that have a heavy dose of "father isn't involved enough / doesn't care about the kids."

Your husband might create a nuisance occasionally by being a helicopter parent, but I think it would do you good to consider how sucky the alternative is.

In my book, "uninvolved" is a much bigger problem than "over-involved." Perhaps some "thanking of lucky stars" would be more appropriate, given the general situation.

I hope things continue to improve in your marriage. Keep in mind that man-brain can be the densest material in the universe, and he may not really perceive all the good things you bring to the table.


----------



## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. I only hope you did not call her all the names I've been called in the past...


Never called her a name during the entire marriage. That's just not my way. You may have to help him realize this is a conflict in your communication styles. That you didn't see or mean that in a negative way, you meant it in a literal way. That you didn't mean it as a left handed comment. That in the future if he thinks you're making those kinds of comments to stop before he reacts and ask you to clarify what you meant and to explain what he's hearing. I know that's how I had to learn to handle her communication from my side. 

I wish I had some ways to offer you on how to better "get" the connotative meanings of the words you are using, but I don't have that experience or insight. She had a professional command of the language and still didn't get the emotions of words, just the technical. In the meantime you might clue in when he does snap at you. Think harder about what words you used and ask him how they make him feel and listen.

If it was like my situation, it's tough to work through communication differences but start by realizing that's the problem and that you aren't meaning to dig at each other. He definitely has to learn to stop the insults, that's just bad bad bad. Best wishes.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jld said:


> You are generous, Turnera. I think I would just have to leave a man who called me names.


Now wait a minute - aren't you the one who admits to periodically coming completely unglued with your husband?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Now wait a minute - aren't you the one who admits to periodically coming completely unglued with your husband?


Yep.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> Thank you for all the input. It is easier for me now to see, how he could take it as offensive, although I still believe that there are other responses more apprpriate. I make mistakes too, and being called "stupid" every time it happens does not work well in the relationship. Twenty years ago I would cry and hurt like hell. Today I am just shrugging it off, but wonder how much longer will I take it.
> 
> I am sure we will solve it tonight, and apologize to each other. We both know we were on the brink of disaester just few month ago, so we are carefully trying not to let smaller things like to get us off track. There is a lot of resentment and hurt on both sides, so things can get heated easily. Our love languages are opposite of each other. Now I can see that we have incompatible personalites, but that wasn't obvious twenty years ago. We have to deal wiht what we've got now.
> 
> On the side note, *I have notice that many men here underestimate how name calling affects women. Please don't*. This is something that really kills relationship for us. What goes among buddies, doesn't always go in romantic relationship. You can tell by the comment of other women.


Not once have I ever called a woman any kind of name. Even my ex-wife in the middle of the most heated arguments.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Now wait a minute - aren't you the one who admits to periodically coming completely unglued with your husband?


And her husband is the one who says a real man can and should stand there and take it.

They are a perfect match for each other...though probably wouldn't be for very many other people. To each their own.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Meh. In my culture we curse every third world so it's not too much of an issue...


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

john117 said:


> Meh. In my culture we curse every third world so it's not too much of an issue...


I'm more of a first world curser.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Epic speller (expletive deleted) fail... Word not world


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

john117 said:


> Meh. In my culture we curse every third world so it's not too much of an issue...


do you think, this might have affected your marriage? It's meh for you, not neccessary for her.


----------

