# How do I get perspective?



## euv (Jan 21, 2013)

My wife and I have been through a lot over the years. I think that things are better now than the last time I posted (3 years ago), but I'm still struck by how differently we view the same events.

Here's an example: my wife recently got a promotion at work. She's really worked hard, and the promotion meant a lot to her. We went out to dinner with our children, and I mentioned her hard work while making a toast to our family. Our 13 year old son didn't seem interested and mostly seemed interested in stuffing his face. He nodded during the toast but didn't say anything. He later said that he didn't see the point in congratulating her.

Afterwords, my wife seemed really disappointed and started saying that she wished he hadn't come. She wasn't yelling, but she was really negative. When we drove home, she again started saying that she probably won't get another promotion, so this was her last opportunity to celebrate, and she's so sad, etc. She has a tendency to go on and on, in fits and spurts, for long periods of time.

To me, his behavior was selfish, but it's not worth getting so upset about. He's a teenager, and he's got plenty of problems, but he's constantly improving his life skills.

She kept complaining about him, and eventually we had a fight. I'm having real trouble seeing her perspective, but I'd like to be able to do so. I have no interest in disparaging her or discussing her personal problems in a negative way, since I already know she has many issues. I'm just trying to find an objective way to evaluate events like these that can help me figure out how to think about my marriage.

Any insights would be welcomed.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I have a 13 yr old and have 2 older teens. Sorry but your sons attitude sucks, it is rude to stuff your face while someone is making a toast and I would have stopped at that point and told him to be more respectful. Yes he is a teenager but should have basic good manners, might be time to sort this out before he goes out into the big wide world.

I would be sad too if one of my kids was so miserable and self centred that they could not celebrate something good that had happened to me.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

euv said:


> He later said that he didn't see the point in congratulating her.


Did you ask him WHY he said that? 



> To me, his behavior was selfish, but it's not worth getting so upset about. He's a teenager, and he's got plenty of problems, but he's constantly improving his life skills


Until you know what was going on with him, I wouldn't classify his behavior as "selfish" quite yet. After all, you DID acknowledge that he's a teen and he's got "plenty of problems". He may have been trying to work through one (or SOME) of those problems and didn't feel much like celebrating.


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

He's acting like a typical 13 year old, unfortunately, so is she.


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## earlyforties (May 3, 2012)

One way of dealing with this is to take a big step back and look at the situation. We all have varying levels of selfishness - it's a fact of life. 

Due to the circumstances, you found yourself in a situation where two people you love are fighting for attention. Many 13 yr old boys are at a very difficult stage in their development with all kinds of crap going on with their minds and bodies. 

I'm sure you'll agree it seems like only yesterday that he was starting school or you had that fantastic time together doing whatever, wherever.. I'm guessing (and hoping in my own case) this stage will pass quickly as it's has some very explosive moments compared to previous years. These 13 yr old creatures can be pretty cold and heartless! The father might be better able to deal with their moody behaviour better than the mother, possibly recognising something of themselves when they were young. That the father was once a boy gives at least some understanding to how his son might feel. To the mother his behaviour is all the more different to how he was in earlier years when she was doing everything for him, all the expressions of love, devotion and cuddles. 

He is dealing with separating from his mother at this age. And maybe there is some unconscious resentment towards her new job. To achieve the new position she may have been around less for him in recent months/years? And he may be aware she will be around less in future. That must be quite confusing for him. Nature is telling him to learn to become an individual while he perceives his Mother which he no doubt loves, turning her attention away from him.

And quite rightly, your wife wants to celebrate her achievement. As an adult she is able to express her hopes, desires and disappointments to you. If you're unable to step back and get perspective (doesn't matter if it's the wrong perspective - as long as it's a better one) then you're unable to comfort either of them for fear of taking sides, or have them perceive you're taking sides. 

A suggestion might be to take your son aside and talk positively about things coming up in his future and follow up with expressing the importance of his mother's new job and why it means so much to her. That despite being adults, we still have that child-like feeling of joy and delight when something good happens to us or when given a present. This is a present she earned for herself and it's right she should be celebrated.

It might help to up the care for your wife at a time like this and understand she needs a hug and to know that you're listening. Maybe she reads your confusion to the situation as not supporting her or siding with your son. As he's growing he's becoming more like you and she could start to feel she's the minority in conflicts if her self esteem is low.

Sit and look at family photographs/video from good times together to remember the journey you've traveled so far as a family. It's tough for all in this situation, including you but you're question tells me you'll be ok. You know it's about getting a better perspective. I'm sure you will.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Trying to put myself in your wife's shoes.. I, too, would have felt my son was a BRAT during that.. I can also see his stark negativity affecting me ..so I would need to VENT afterwards to my husband...about my disappointment.. and how that hurt.. 

I think the best thing in that circumstance is either.. during the meal, something being spoken (though knowing the personality of the kid, it might have made things worse & an argument ensued at the moment the toast was being given).. 

Boy would the BRAT have consequences after that -if it happened, I'll tell you !

But at the very least.. YOU, the husband should have a firm talking to him afterwards to how he was completely disrespectful to his mother, on a night that was supposed to be a celebration... this was important to her.. he needs to put his selfishness aside for the outing... that you will be their to celebrate his promotions...and all in the family.. 

He NEEDS to know your disappointment in his attitude ... that it wasn't OK.. I would suggest his apologizing to his mother also. 

Don't blame her at all for wishing she left him at home though!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

And further... if your wife seen that you cared enough to Correct him.. because you UNDERSTOOD her disappointment, how that hurt.. I feel it would go a long long way... I know it would with me....

Moments like that require sitting a child down & having a heart to heart, we are always teaching them about the world, how to get along, how to treat others.. this includes family.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> And further... if your wife seen that you cared enough to Correct him.. because you UNDERSTOOD her disappointment, how that hurt.. I feel it would go a long long way... I know it would with me....
> 
> *Moments like that require sitting a child down & having a heart to heart, we are always teaching them about the world, how to get along, how to treat others.. this includes family*.


Totally agree.

Being 13 yrs of age does not give them a free pass to be rude and inconsiderate. Yes they have their stages and issues they are dealing with but it is the parents role to teach them about life and about being decent humans. I have in the past if any of mine are going through one of their teenage "phases" told them that they are still expected to be courteous when we have guests or are out in public. If anything it has given them the ability to go outside their own little worlds and connect with other people and family even when they think the world revolves around them.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

The source of your problem is your 13 year old son. The "he's a teeneager" is a typical excuse. We have no idea how hard it was for your wife to have made her promotion, but to have her son just blow it off was unacceptable behavior. I would have come down hard on my son for that. Then had my wife come down hard on him for that too. 

Take your wife's side.

Sent from Above


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

Agreed. He doesn't have a free pass to be jerk. But mom's behavior isn't helping. How about acting like an adult rather than stooping to the behavior of a kid? Some parents don't realize that kids mirror their behaviors. If this is how she acts, is it any wonder why the kids acts like he does? Set the example mom. 

Sounds like she vented to her husband, he listened. And she continued. And continued. And CONTINUED.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Your son was being rude and I think she was upset that you didn't say that to him. Maybe he is upset that his Mom is more excited about her job than something is doing or that she is gone so much, or he is just being a selfish teenager. Your wife has a negative attitude and just because she was disappointed about the dinner doesn't mean she should start a fight with you and ruin the night. I would have just blown off his negative attitude and celebrated my promotion with the rest of the family. It sounds like she likes drama.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I don't blame your wife I would be upset too. If a kid disrespects a parent I think the other parent should immediately say something and make it known that it's unacceptable, that's how kids learn how to respect. 
My mom was a stay at home mom, and when we were done eating sometimes we (the kids) would run from the table to go play or whatever bc we were hyper and excited. My dad would always get mad and say... Pick up your plate, clean it off and place it in the sink snd thank your mother for dinner. Your mother worked hard to prepare this meal and she shouldn't have to clean up after you. 
And he was right. And my mother appreciated him saying it because it comes off different when the other parent says something bc it's not like... Oh here we go mom is complaining because she works soo hard. it's acknowledgement from dad that he appreciates and supports her, and demands respect from the kids to her.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

The whole "boys will be boys", and "kids will be kids" thing I am not into. It's just people's way of excusing bad behavior and taking no responsibility to correct it.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

The boy misbehaved, but your wife now is behaving like she is 13 year old too. Is this her parenting techniques, go on on how bad are her kids, instead of actually doing something about it?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> The whole "boys will be boys", and "kids will be kids" thing I am not into. It's just people's way of excusing bad behavior and taking no responsibility to correct it.


and it looks like this is the parenting style of the wife - complain, but do nothing to fix it. And OT should have get the boy to behave, but whatever happens, the wife sound immature.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

"My 13 year old had a bad attitude! I'm not getting another promotion and I'm going to sulk!!!"
I would correct my son but your W's reaction speaks of many other issues she has.

How is her relationship with your son?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## euv (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses.

To clarify one thing: my son is very far from being coddled; in fact he's constantly being disciplined by both of us, especially my wife. They have a complicated relationship--they both love each other a lot, but they end up fighting over nothing all the time. Yes, I believe that my wife would benefit from individual counseling, but we've been down that road (she goes and then stops), and I'm not interested in pursuing it any further. It's a very difficult situation, and I'm not really sure what to do about it. It's not worth leaving the marriage over, but there doesn't really seem to be anything I can do.

Mostly in my post, I wanted to see if I could adequately convey a specific recent episode in our marriage and get objective feedback. But I see now that I was missing a lot of context, and I'm not sure how objective I can be in talking about it.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

euv said:


> Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses.
> 
> To clarify one thing: my son is very far from being coddled; in fact he's constantly being disciplined by both of us, especially my wife. *They have a complicated relationship--they both love each other a lot, but they end up fighting over nothing all the time.* Yes, I believe that my wife would benefit from individual counseling, but we've been down that road (she goes and then stops), and I'm not interested in pursuing it any further. It's a very difficult situation, and I'm not really sure what to do about it. It's not worth leaving the marriage over, but there doesn't really seem to be anything I can do.
> 
> Mostly in my post, I wanted to see if I could adequately convey a specific recent episode in our marriage and get objective feedback. But I see now that I was missing a lot of context, and I'm not sure how objective I can be in talking about it.


If it helps their relationship is not out of the ordinary, it is not that complicated. Children go through many stages and the teen years have some very specific challenges. At this age they start the process of separating from their parents, they will push the boundaries and seek individuation. This is a vital time in their development and while they need some freedom to learn where the new boundaries are they also need very firm boundaries placed on them by their parents.
A few things: this is normal and has to happen or you end up with socially inept adults still tied to their parents.
Parents must also start the process of separating from their children or they risk creating a dysfunctional parents/ adult-child relationship.

While teens are pushing these boundaries and learning about the next step in their place in the world they still require firm boundaries. Let them get their feet in the start of the adult world but don't let them get away with inappropriate behaviour as this will impact on who they become as adults.

So yeah let your son have his moody little teenage moment but in this case, you are the less antagonistic of his parents needed to very firmly tell him that his behaviour was not acceptable.

As for your wife, well you cannot cut the apron strings for her but if you want emotionally happy adult-children in the future it might be a good idea to do some reading. A basic start is to search terms like *teenage individuation stage*, both you and your wife are responsible for creating the best possible future adults you can.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

In my day, a good slap in the face would have corrected my behavior and give my parents no reason to argue. These days you cannot do it. I was hit hard enough for it to hurt but not to damage. It made me tough. I grew up with a good set of values and have been very successful in my life. I owe it all to the way my parents raised me. Now you cannot do that so spouses argue about how to handle problems with their kids and often rather just give up than make their child do something that they do not want to do and cannot be talked into it. Not saying which way is better but my friends, wife an family members are all good honest hard working people. The way my parents raised me was no different than how I was trained in the Army for combat. If I did something wrong, there was some sort of pain involved whether it be 100 pushups in full gear or running a few miles. I learned and what I learned kept me alive in combat. It does work and despite corporal punishment, I do not have a single bad memory of my parents. I got what I deserved and never held it against them. In retrospect, their punishment was light. More symbolic than painful. I never had a mark on me or felt truly beaten.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

There are ways to raise and discipline your child without slapping his face.


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