# Burning far reaching question



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

I'm heading for the divorce - there is no reconciliation to be had for us. This is a done deal. The following is really a perspective regarding the kids

Two kids aged 8 / 9 (nearly 9 / 10) bright sparky smart. 

Been separated now since May 1st coming on 4 months.
stbxw is a serial cheat going back over many years - an established cake eater.
I've been a house husband for most of our married lives, since the kids went to pre nursery. 
Mothering was never really her strong point 

I now have them 4 nights custody a week. I'm realizing they are not 'kiddie kids' anymore either and know far more about the world than I thought.

Both stbxw and I agreed on DDay that she would shoulder the blame as I refused point blank to and threatened to tell the kids the whole sorry lot details and all. She agreed 
"Mummy has been hurting daddy and wants to stop that and has to leave. It's my (her) fault and I have to leave to end that" That's precisely how it was left 

I refrained from telling them the exact truth about her (which she was grateful for of course) as it might be all too much for them 

My kids, after the shock, have asked more and more questions about this and both me and my stbxw and I have deflected the truth from them 

From the start I have not been comfortable about this as it seemed to be yet another method from her to get away without telling the truth about it all. So I've agreed to participating in keeping them away from the truth from the start (mmm the irony I know)

My daughter particularly is not happy with this and more pointedly keeps asking "what exactly did mummy do to hurt you daddy, you dont talk or even look at her like you used to?" (They notice a lot of stuff) I say 'Mummy is the one who will one day tell her them about that'. 

Recently my stbxw has started rewriting history about our whole marriage to the point now where in this aspect the kids come back to me saying "daddy when two people break up its two peoples faults equally not just one persons!!" Hehe... yes I say generally that is the case but in some circumstances one person may be much more at fault than another 

I have actually suggested to my stbxw she tells them about her infidelity now as I feel it would save a lot more heart ache later when they find they've been lied to again for years on top of the deceit to me for years which I'm sure they will be unhappy about especially later on.She's ignored this and goes along with the thought that right now it is not a problem and we'll deal with it later. Really she's hoping that they will never hear about it even tho I have expressed they will absolutely hear it from me when the time is right. Again they keep asking so when is the time right? a few people have said to me she's merely protecting herself again and I should tell them and be done 

I also had a thought yesterday that maybe when they know in say a few years they will be pissed at ME! for lying to them for a few years when I could have told them now! That thought really hit me and has lead me to believe it would be better to tell now and for my stbxw to just have to deal with what for her admittedly will be a nightmare. 

They have dealt with everything so far fantastically no real adverse effects at school and I try to keep my anger bitterness as far away from them as possible

Anyone have any advice / views on this?


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Does everyone else knows? Have you disclosed? You risk being painted as the bad guy. She can change the song and tell the kids the reason you are not together is because YOU don't want them to be while she does. Specially if no one else knows about the whole story.

Kids are very young to be in the middle of this but you have to make it perfectly clear it's her fault.



> just have to deal with what for her admittedly will be a nightmare.


Tough cookies... That concern should have been important before she did what she did.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Yes, they will be pissed off at you when they eventually find out. They may understand eventually but they will be hurt for sure when the truth comes out


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## Henri (Jun 30, 2012)

They are will perhaps blame you both for breaking up THEIR family and THEIR parents. I am with costa200 (and Warlock), you need to be clear about the reasons otherwise you risk harming yourself and not help them. I think it is game playing to not tell the truth. They watch TV and will probably already know about affairs, divorce and so on, if they don't they will try to understand and it will help.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I think you have mixed motives (not that I blame you)

On the one hand, you want to make sure the blame is firmly nailed on the W.

On the other, you are uncomfortable lying to your kids. But you aren't really lying and that really isn't an issue. You are KEEPING INFORMATION from them, which isn't the same thing at all. It is no more heinous then not teaching them how to cook heroin. They aren't ready for that first bit of knowledge re W and I hope they NEVER need that second bit.

It will hurt your W and sharing the pain would feel good to you.

IMO, they are still a bit young. What you do is two things.

First, you write a letter to your girls. On the youngest's twelfth birthday (13 might be better) they are allowed to open it and read it IF THEY WANT TO. In it, you put your thoughts, emotions and the facts of what occured. Don't sugar coat or white wash, but don't unnecessarily darken your wife either.

Second, go to a dollar store or Good Will. Pick up a glass vase. Take your daughters outside the next time they bring it up. Show them the vase. Then throw it on the ground hard enough so it breaks into a lot of pieces.

"Honey...do you think I knew that if I threw the vase at the ground that it would break? Now. can anything fix that vase? No, it can't be fixed. Well, some, not many but SOME situations are bad enough that there aren't any 'take backs'. There are some things which are almost impossible to forgive...and not everyone can do that. That's unfortunately what your mother did to our marriage."

I think that should clear things up enough that she'll get the picture


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

my first thought is that your kids should be kept out of the "who's fault" everything is.

My parents divorced when I was 7. All I heard was how my mom changed in the relationship and how my dad was an alcoholic, this information was from others.. my parents didn't really say anything to us other than mommy and daddy can't live together anymore.. Knowing what I know now, I don't really care why they split up and I blame changes in life... They're both my parents and during my individual time with them.. they didn't continue to explain who's fault it is... They did their best to make things as comfortable and as seemless as possible without us getting reeled into the drama.

Admittedly, I don't know the proper procedure with children, or how much should be shared at that age. But I would think that the real, dirty details would do more harm than good for at least one of the parents.. and the goal of divorce shouldn't be to pit kids against the other parent.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Infidelity is a big thing though. Something like "Mom stopped loving me and fell in love with another man(men actually in this case though)". The explicit details are not necessary


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I have had the same dilemma, mine are 10 and 12 and I had a thread on it a while back

They pushed and pushed for some precise reasons and would not be fobbed off

After MUCH deliberation (and totally avoidance of the issue by my H) I have told them that mum and dad had problems with each other for a while but the breakdown came because dad chose to have other girlfriends rather than work on the problems with mum and that was unacceptable to me and my values.

The trouble with all the 'not getting along' and 'falling out of love' stuff is that is conflicts with what we teach them about working on problems and not quitting and being tolerant etc etc. They needed to understand what was so 'big' that it could not be overcome

I think it has helped them to understand the magnitude of what has happened. I gave him endless chances to talk to them together or by himself but in the end had to do it myself.

Things have been a bit easier since I told them - they haven't asked for more details. 

They already knew that it was dad doing something to mum - they'd seen him staying out, me upset, him drinking and avoiding stuff etc. If I'd turned round and done a 50/50 blame thing, I don't think they'd ever trust me again


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

My parents were divorced when I was about 5 or 6 yrs old.
I never heard my father's side of the story,only my mother's " perspective" which painted him as the worst human being. But in my childish memories I remembered him as a loving dad.
I was confused.
Whenever I asked , she would get angry tell me that he was no good.
When I got old enough I found out the truth .
Her " perspective" was filled with bitterness and inaccuracies.

To the OP, children understand. Tell them the truth in a way that they can understand,or she will try to fill them with hatred towards you.
She has already started " rewriting the history " and YOU were the STAY AT HOME DAD, whilst she was the wayward wife.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Perhaps in your jurisdiction, they will require parenting classes prior to granting the divorce.. they do here. 

There are quite a few resources out there dealing with what to tell children based on age. I still feel the most important thing during a divorce is the children's well being. I do think it was wrong for you to threaten your wife into telling the children it was her fault.. I think that was out of spite for your own hurt. Children need to know that both parents love them and that they are their #1 concern regardless of the relationship with the other parent (absent abuse, neglect, violence).. my mothers serial heists prior to their divorce didn't affect her love for me. She was bored of my father and didn't try hard enough in the marriage, but she did love and care for us and I never felt abandoned by either parent. Looking back, I had negative feelings of my mother.... And its because others would say negative things at family functions about her after the divorce... They'd try and make her look bad or make jokes about her. Yeah, I was mad at her for "hurting" my dad. Wish I hadn't of worried myself with that.. my dads fine.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you thought about family counselling? Maybe start with the two of you, and then include the kids as appropriate? No matter if you're separating or divorcing, you're still a family because of the kids. And helping them deal with this in the healthiest manner possible should be the highest priority.

C


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

thanks so far some interesting views there

Obviously I'm not furnish them with biological details but it does seem inevitably that the romantic 'connection' that marriage / relationship is based on has been destroyed has to be made to them in some way.

There is this fear that one does not want to be blamed by them and the truth is that although I am in some ways responsible, largely I'm not.

I hate the thought that they will at some future point feel I lied to them about it and it would seem to be that the reality is just to protect their mother and not them.

Clearly a lot of thinking to be be done.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Act with integrity in everything you say, everything you do and communicate your feelings of loss to the kids.
They already know what has happened.
Answer questions directly.
Tell the truth because this is what they need most right now. It is not just you who was betrayed.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Cherry said:


> I do think it was wrong for you to threaten your wife into telling the children it was her fault.. I think that was out of spite for your own hurt.


Partially although very difficult to sit there and take the road of 'yes its both our faults that your lives have been completely obliterated' when it's in no way the case. Allowing my wife to just walk off into the sunset, showing nil remorse, with a clean bill of health. (which she so desperately wants to do)

The kids would still have asked the same questions and I would I feel still have ended up pondering this same question now. 



Cherry said:


> Children need to know that both parents love them and that they are their #1 concern regardless of the relationship with the other parent (absent abuse, neglect, violence)..


There's no doubt she loves them but I'm not convinced going from the past they will be her no1 concern

Time will tell I suppose


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

You tell her to tell the kids. You give a deadline. If she does not tell the kids you will.

She will imagine that you will give ever single detail and poison the kids against her so she will tell more of the truth than you would.

She will hate you for this, but hey, this is reality.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Or she will give them a gaslighted version "first"


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Just read your story again. Wow...So many men!!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I believe your kids deserve to know the truth. If you don't tell them they will either make it up themselves or blame you. Pretending there isn't a huge elephant in the room never ever works.

So I agree give your wife a deadline. Either she tells them or you will.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Just read your story again. Wow...So many men!!


You know what warlock every now and then I read through that and it's almost like reading another thread from someone else's life

Hard to believe even for me!

Christ!


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Or she will give them a gaslighted version "first"


She's already started with this to the kids "most people earn £1,500 per month but daddy did not, so mummy was upset ....!! 

Mmm may have had something to do with my being a full time house husband and making sure she could lead the life she so desperately wanted !! although I did work part time as well like many housewives husbands do. 

I'd say "gaslighting" has already started which is why I think should I go ahead I'll bypass what ever she wants to do about it


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

It would be wrong to tell the children the "truth". I don't care how smart they are. They are not emotionally mature enough to deal with the truth of the situation.

You run the risk of destroying their relationship with their mother. Regardless of the joy this may or may not bring you, they need as good of a relationship as they can get with both parents especially since you are now living apart.

All personal feelings should be put aside for the kids. The truth will come out eventually.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Try and see yourself as a new smaller family. 
The kids will/may have a second smaller family with "their Mother' [see the distance their?] too. More than ever they are going to need a safe, secure and emotionally honest home.


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

I think kids know more then they will say they do. They want to hear the truth from their parents the ones that they trust.
I would tell them the truth, but I would never talk bad about the other parent. It's for them to realize that on their own.

My mom and dad never got married she had me at a young age, he stayed for a year then lefted. Never saw him. She wouldn't allow him to see him and she talked bad about him. I wish she didn't. But becasue of that I don't know my dad.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Tell them. You run the risk of overwhelming their adolscent capacities, but if you don't you run the risk of them being poisoned with lies. 

Misconceptions can be really tough on a kid. I always thought my father was a hardass. 

He'd beat the crap out of me whenever I fked up. Beat me until I pissed myself and then ground me on top of that as a child. If I cried around him, he'd beat me again. 

I hated him at times, very frequently. he didn't just smack me around though, he taught me how to be responsible and that all actions big or small have consequences. He also taught me that I don't need to ask for help for everything, to do things by myself without needing anybody else like some people who're always looking for help. 

I remember graduating from high school and I see all these knuckleheads. Don't care about an education, Don't work or want to, and didn't graduate with me in my year. Just fooled around.

He passed away a few years back. Now he didn't pass while I hated him or anything, but he did pass before I figured out just what he was doing for me all those years ago. I don't drink excessively, I don't smoke, I don't associate with knuckle heads or losers, I know the value of hard work and I can get things done by my damn self. 

I never thanked him for that. 

I'm not saying give them the skinny, but let them know that mommy did bad things, but daddy respects himself too much to allow it. Frame it like a bully comparison. That she kept doing bad things, but rather than put up with the bully, you put a stop to it.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

lovemylife26 said:


> I think kids know more then they will say they do. They want to hear the truth from their parents the ones that they trust.
> I would tell them the truth, but I would never talk bad about the other parent. It's for them to realize that on their own.
> 
> My mom and dad never got married she had me at a young age, he stayed for a year then lefted. Never saw him. She wouldn't allow him to see him and she talked bad about him. I wish she didn't. But becasue of that I don't know my dad.


I recall an incident when I was young. My mother stayed out VERY VERY late at night and it was storming. I was around 9 or 10. We knew something was wrong but didn't know what.

I think even then we had a sense that mom wasn't in the 'herd' anymore.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I like what Yellow Rose said. "Mom choose to have boyfriends after promising she wouldn't when she married. That is not acceptable behavior."


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you should be as honest as possible with your children. They are not too young, imo, to hear your explanation for why their family is changing the way it is.

Perhaps you can tell them that when two people marry, they pledge to be loyal to one another. If a husband or wife cannot do that, the marriage cannot be strong. Their mother has made it clear that she cannot be just with you, and you will not have a wife who wants to be with other men. You and their mother have different ideas about marriage & this means that you can no longer be together as husband and wife.

The morality lesson is implied rather than hammered away at, and the children are left to judge for themselves. And they will definitely judge. I would do everything I could not to allow your wife to lead them to a false judgment that paints you in a bad light.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Headspin said:


> Partially although very difficult to sit there and take the road of 'yes its both our faults that your lives have been completely obliterated' when it's in no way the case. Allowing my wife to just walk off into the sunset, showing nil remorse, with a clean bill of health. (which she so desperately wants to do)
> 
> The kids would still have asked the same questions and I would I feel still have ended up pondering this same question now.
> 
> ...



Cheating is a very self centred act. There is no doubt the children were not her number one concern!


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Again thanks, many interesting, valid, view points and I will think about each and every one of them before I make a decision on if and how. 

I do wish I'd known about this place many many years ago.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Headspin said:


> I'm heading for the divorce - there is no reconciliation to be had for us. This is a done deal. The following is really a perspective regarding the kids
> 
> Two kids aged 8 / 9 (nearly 9 / 10) bright sparky smart.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

JCD said:


> I like what Yellow Rose said. "Mom choose to have boyfriends after promising she wouldn't when she married. That is not acceptable behavior."


Yes that comment has stood out


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

perfect example of how being a SAHD screws you! Never ever do that again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cherry said:


> Perhaps in your jurisdiction, they will require parenting classes prior to granting the divorce.. they do here.
> 
> There are quite a few resources out there dealing with what to tell children based on age. I still feel the most important thing during a divorce is the children's well being. I do think it was wrong for you to threaten your wife into telling the children it was her fault.. I think that was out of spite for your own hurt. Children need to know that both parents love them and that they are their #1 concern regardless of the relationship with the other parent (absent abuse, neglect, violence).. my mothers serial heists prior to their divorce didn't affect her love for me. She was bored of my father and didn't try hard enough in the marriage, but she did love and care for us and I never felt abandoned by either parent. Looking back, I had negative feelings of my mother.... And its because others would say negative things at family functions about her after the divorce... They'd try and make her look bad or make jokes about her. Yeah, I was mad at her for "hurting" my dad. Wish I hadn't of worried myself with that.. my dads fine.


Parenting classes in the UK? Not heard of any. Though it might be a good idea.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

kenmoore14217 said:


> perfect example of how being a SAHD screws you! Never ever do that again.


That's actually quite difficult now as my work as such is from home mostly (teacher) and I've organised it as to fit around the needs of the kids and school (and wife) for years 

on that topic actually although being SAHD is a grind, I do have a kind of system that now makes it workable and if I can increase my workload it will still not effect the kids and home so anyone I meet now will have to fit into this for the forseeable future.

Frankly that does'nt matter right now as I want to maintain a stability that the kids will always be able to rely on with me 

The thought of a new woman in my life and how exactly that would work is a long way from my mind right now

Really tells you how easy my stbxw had it - more fool me I suppose


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Parenting classes in the UK? Not heard of any. Though it might be a good idea.


Mmm I'll send my stbxw on one of those


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

MattMatt said:


> Parenting classes in the UK? Not heard of any. Though it might be a good idea.


I dunno.. but I don't see why not ?? Anyways just throwing out suggestions


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