# Can I save my marriage?



## Lost_And_Wandering

Hello. I am a 30 year old woman. My husband is 33. We’ve been together for six years and married for three. Last year I made the single worst mistake of my life and had an affair with a male coworker. I have no excuse for what I did. It was wrong, selfish and self destructive. At the time I had excuses but I now realize that that is exactly what the were. Excuses.

My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.

I made the horribly selfish decision to seek comfort from a male coworker who had in the past made it clear to me that he was attracted to me. I’d always shut it down quickly before but at last year’s company Christmas party I was weak and I accepted his advances. We kissed after the party and began to text secretly to plan a tryst.

This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this. But I went ahead anyway. It was exciting and he paid attention to me and flattered me and I was a weak and foolish person and played along.

Then we met at a hotel and had sex. I almost immediately regretted my decision. I felt dirty and cheap laying there in that hotel bed while my husband was off at work none the wiser. I actually started to cry right there and my coworker only worried that I’d tell my husband and he’d get beaten up or that his fiancé would find out.

After this happened I immediately rededicated myself to being a good wife. I opened up to my husband about my feelings of neglect. He apologized for making me feel that way. He was so open to us working things out it made me realize how poorly I’d treated him. I was wracked with guilt over what I’d done.

I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good. But I’ve been stressed nonetheless. I’ve been suffering from guilt and remorse. Every time my husband would g out of his way to do something thoughtful or sweet I’d almost break down in tears.

A couple months ago I started getting shingles. I was told it could be from stress. My husband was so understanding and kind. He thought I was stressed from work. Right at the beginning of November he surprised me with a trip to a cabin for a long weekend to help me get my mind off my stress.

I just couldn’t take it and I broke down sobbing. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t continue to lie to him. I broke down and confessed everything to him.

At first he sat there in total shock. He asked if I was serious. I said yes. I was so sorry but yes. He sat there for a long time just not moving or saying anything. Then he asked me what he’d done to deserve this. I told him nothing. He didn’t deserve this at all. He asked me why. Why would I do this to him. To us. I apologize again and said I had no excuse. I was wrong and I had no excuse.

He got up and left the room and ignored me the rest of the night. When it was time for bed I came into the bedroom and he told me to go sleep in the guest room because he didn’t want to share a bed with me anymore. So I’ve been sleeping in the guest room ever since.

For the next two weeks he wouldn’t speak to me. Would barely look at me. He would eat with me. He’s been spending all his time at home either in the garage or down in the basement watching television. I honest think before this week we may have passed one of two sentences between us. I’ve been trying to give him space. I’m on eggshells because I’m terrified he’s going to tell me he wants a divorce and ask me to leave. (He owned the house before we met so I think he’d be within his rights to throw me out.)

On Monday this week I tried to start showing him nice gestures. I made him his favorite dinner Monday and when he came home from work he took one look at me and said he’d lost his appetite. He made a bowl of cereal and went down in the basement again.

Yesterday I asked him quietly if he was going to come with me Sunday to have our family picture taken for Christmas. This is a tradition in my family. My parents all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and all my nieces and nephews get together and we take a picture. I have had the heart to tell anyone in my family what I’ve done. I’m so ashamed of myself I can’t bring myself to do it.

He asked me why I thought he’d want to go anywhere with me and said maybe I should take my boyfriend instead. I said I don’t have a boyfriend I have a husband I love very much who I’d do anything in the world to keep. He said I’d do anything except keep my panties on while he’s not around. He was getting angrier and angrier. I’ve never really seen him so angry. I wasn’t exactly afraid of him though. It wasn’t like he was threatening me. He was just angry and the look of hatred he was giving me broke my heart.

I again told him how sorry I was and begged him to tell me what I can do to try and fix this. He just laughed and said it’s probably broken beyond repair at this point. I said don’t say that, please don’t say that. He asked me how the **** I thought he was supposed to feel. And I had some nerve to think he’d go get a picture taken with me.

I said it’s fine I’ll tell my family that you’re sick. He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t. Then he said this: “Don’t worry I’m not going to broadcast to the world that my wife is a ****ing *****.”

It devastated me to hear him call me that. This man who I love so much called me a *****. I just stood there and took it though because he’s right to be angry with me. I cried and he told me to spare him the phony tears. Then he told me to get the **** out of his basement and leave him alone. Then he broke down crying. The only time I’ve ever seen him cry before was when his dad died two years ago. But there he sat sobbing. I put my hand on his shoulder and he told me not to touch him. Just the feeling of me touching him makes him sick.

Before I left I said quietly one more time that I do love him. That I’m sorry for hurting him and I’ll do whatever I can within my power to save our marriage. He just waved me off so I went upstairs. We haven’t spoken at all since. He’s been working twelve hour days since this all started so he can avoid me as much as possible. When he came home tonight he took a shower and immediately went down the basement again. My stomach is on knots with pain, sorrow and fear that I’ve destroyed my marriage. Is there anything I can do to save us?


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## manfromlamancha

Others will weigh in with all kinds of observations, questions and advice. For now, my first question is how do you feel towards your POS affair partner? What do you think of him? Is his fiancee deserving of this (is she a bad person)? Do you still have feelings for him?


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## Bryanpb

Do you have children with your husband?


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## Tatsuhiko

I think he's pretty badly broken, perhaps beyond repair. But you should ask him if he wants you to inform your family and if you should inform the fiancee of your lover. This will demonstrate to him that you're serious about doing whatever it takes to help him heal. 

The fact that he hasn't immediately filed for divorce is somewhat encouraging.

Because a face-to-face talk upsets him, write him a letter with a truly heartfelt apology. Tell him how much you love him and how dirty you felt for being with another man. 

Do not become defensive or indignant when he calls you horrible names. Ignore any "you go girl" type of advice you might get from female friends.


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## jonty30

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Hello. I am a 30 year old woman. My husband is 33. We’ve been together for six years and married for three. Last year I made the single worst mistake of my life and had an affair with a male coworker. I have no excuse for what I did. It was wrong, selfish and self destructive. At the time I had excuses but I now realize that that is exactly what the were. Excuses.
> 
> My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.
> 
> I made the horribly selfish decision to seek comfort from a male coworker who had in the past made it clear to me that he was attracted to me. I’d always shut it down quickly before but at last year’s company Christmas party I was weak and I accepted his advances. We kissed after the party and began to text secretly to plan a tryst.
> 
> This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this. But I went ahead anyway. It was exciting and he paid attention to me and flattered me and I was a weak and foolish person and played along.
> 
> Then we met at a hotel and had sex. I almost immediately regretted my decision. I felt dirty and cheap laying there in that hotel bed while my husband was off at work none the wiser. I actually started to cry right there and my coworker only worried that I’d tell my husband and he’d get beaten up or that his fiancé would find out.
> 
> After this happened I immediately rededicated myself to being a good wife. I opened up to my husband about my feelings of neglect. He apologized for making me feel that way. He was so open to us working things out it made me realize how poorly I’d treated him. I was wracked with guilt over what I’d done.
> 
> I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good. But I’ve been stressed nonetheless. I’ve been suffering from guilt and remorse. Every time my husband would g out of his way to do something thoughtful or sweet I’d almost break down in tears.
> 
> A couple months ago I started getting shingles. I was told it could be from stress. My husband was so understanding and kind. He thought I was stressed from work. Right at the beginning of November he surprised me with a trip to a cabin for a long weekend to help me get my mind off my stress.
> 
> I just couldn’t take it and I broke down sobbing. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t continue to lie to him. I broke down and confessed everything to him.
> 
> At first he sat there in total shock. He asked if I was serious. I said yes. I was so sorry but yes. He sat there for a long time just not moving or saying anything. Then he asked me what he’d done to deserve this. I told him nothing. He didn’t deserve this at all. He asked me why. Why would I do this to him. To us. I apologize again and said I had no excuse. I was wrong and I had no excuse.
> 
> He got up and left the room and ignored me the rest of the night. When it was time for bed I came into the bedroom and he told me to go sleep in the guest room because he didn’t want to share a bed with me anymore. So I’ve been sleeping in the guest room ever since.
> 
> For the next two weeks he wouldn’t speak to me. Would barely look at me. He would eat with me. He’s been spending all his time at home either in the garage or down in the basement watching television. I honest think before this week we may have passed one of two sentences between us. I’ve been trying to give him space. I’m on eggshells because I’m terrified he’s going to tell me he wants a divorce and ask me to leave. (He owned the house before we met so I think he’d be within his rights to throw me out.)
> 
> On Monday this week I tried to start showing him nice gestures. I made him his favorite dinner Monday and when he came home from work he took one look at me and said he’d lost his appetite. He made a bowl of cereal and went down in the basement again.
> 
> Yesterday I asked him quietly if he was going to come with me Sunday to have our family picture taken for Christmas. This is a tradition in my family. My parents all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and all my nieces and nephews get together and we take a picture. I have had the heart to tell anyone in my family what I’ve done. I’m so ashamed of myself I can’t bring myself to do it.
> 
> He asked me why I thought he’d want to go anywhere with me and said maybe I should take my boyfriend instead. I said I don’t have a boyfriend I have a husband I love very much who I’d do anything in the world to keep. He said I’d do anything except keep my panties on while he’s not around. He was getting angrier and angrier. I’ve never really seen him so angry. I wasn’t exactly afraid of him though. It wasn’t like he was threatening me. He was just angry and the look of hatred he was giving me broke my heart.
> 
> I again told him how sorry I was and begged him to tell me what I can do to try and fix this. He just laughed and said it’s probably broken beyond repair at this point. I said don’t say that, please don’t say that. He asked me how the **** I thought he was supposed to feel. And I had some nerve to think he’d go get a picture taken with me.
> 
> I said it’s fine I’ll tell my family that you’re sick. He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t. Then he said this: “Don’t worry I’m not going to broadcast to the world that my wife is a *ing **.”
> 
> It devastated me to hear him call me that. This man who I love so much called me a ***. I just stood there and took it though because he’s right to be angry with me. I cried and he told me to spare him the phony tears. Then he told me to get the **** out of his basement and leave him alone. Then he broke down crying. The only time I’ve ever seen him cry before was when his dad died two years ago. But there he sat sobbing. I put my hand on his shoulder and he told me not to touch him. Just the feeling of me touching him makes him sick.
> 
> Before I left I said quietly one more time that I do love him. That I’m sorry for hurting him and I’ll do whatever I can within my power to save our marriage. He just waved me off so I went upstairs. We haven’t spoken at all since. He’s been working twelve hour days since this all started so he can avoid me as much as possible. When he came home tonight he took a shower and immediately went down the basement again. My stomach is on knots with pain, sorrow and fear that I’ve destroyed my marriage. Is there anything I can do to save us?


When hurt somebody, the only way to repair it is to allow them to determine the conditions it takes to make amends and then live up to them.
He's grieving heavily, because that is the level of betrayal he is feeling. 
The only way to build back trust is to be trustworthy. 
Give him the accounts to all your social media and email and keep no secrets. Even a small secret will give the impression that you're going to step out.


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## Marc878

Let go of the outcomes and give him space. Read up on what infidelity does to a marriage. There are numerous articles on the subject. It’s his decision at this point.


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## Beach123

Have you told your family yet? He wants YOU to be honest about who YOU are and what you have done!

You telling your family he’s sick - that’s a slap in the face! You are willing to LIE again to save YOURSELF!

Get professional help about how to be an honest person! You may not be capable of repairing the damage you’ve done. Leave your husband if he can’t handle your lies. He deserves better - you’re still trying to cover up.

Did you get a new job so you aren’t working with your OM?


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## Openminded

I totally agree with him about the nerve of you asking him to participate in a Christmas photo with your family because you’re trying to keep this hidden from them. You’re only trying to protect yourself and you wanted his help, of all people, in doing it. See how messed up that is? He’s actually acting a lot better than most men would. A physical affair (as opposed to an emotional affair) is the end for a lot of men and it doesn’t take them long to decide. He‘s still reeling from the shock and may not even know yet what he wants.


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## Dictum Veritas

Are you still working with the AP or do you have any contact with him whatsoever, personally or professionally?

If you answered yes to any of the above, you are still showing your husband that you have zero respect for him.

You are ashamed to tell your family? Your husband is ashamed that he has ever had feelings for you, let alone married you. Get over yourself and show your husband the respect he deserves by letting your family know that you blew your marriage apart and how.

You don't have a say in the future of your relationship with your "husband" anymore. You have already nuked your marriage the moment you slept with the other man. You don't have a marriage anymore. If your husband decides that he wants to build a new marriage with you, you should be so grateful for the gift that you would gladly crawl through broken glass just for a smile from him.

You effectively divorced your husband the moment you let the other man in you, you just neglected to tell your husband about it. He now thinks your entire marriage is a lie and he feels like a fool for having been a part of it. There is no trust left in him for you. He would never have married a woman whom would be an adulteress and betray him so egregiously. For that reason he rightfully feels that he doesn't even know you at all and he is grieving the death of the wife he only had in his head, because you are not that person.

You came clean to him, not because of your love for him or because you thought you owed him the truth, but to unburden yourself and to place the burden on him. Don't get me wrong, this is still better than having him live a lie (like you have from the moment you slept with the other man, until you told him), but you did it for selfish reasons and took no other steps to make yourself a safe partner for him.

You can remedy some of that, but your marriage is over. If you want a chance to build a new one the following is vital:

Cut all contact with the POS fellow adulterer. If that means you have to quit your job to never see him again, then so be it. No contact with him from this moment and in perpetuity. This might be too little too late if you only do so now.

Tell the truth, answer every question your husband has with nothing but the FULL truth, hiding NOTHING.

Tell your parents and siblings what you did. Your husband should have no blame in their eyes for missing family gatherings or being distant or even flat out angry and disagreeable. You did this to him.

Seek personal counselling. Find out what is so broken in you that you can murder your husbands heart and soul and obliterate your marriage and shared history for some strange and a bit of feel good.

The above is just a start. Other than telling him and feeling bad, you have done nothing to repair the damage you caused and the damage to your husband is more devastating than you can even start to imagine.

He is mourning the death of his wife down there in the basement and wondering who this alien is who has taken over her body, because the wife he loved would never do something this despicable to him.


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## Tdbo

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t.


Stick a fork in your current relationship.
It's done.
The only chance that you have to salvage a relationship is true remorse.
The reason that I keyed off on the four sentences in this quote is that they show anything but.
You betray and destroy your husband, and you are worried about what your parents think of you.
You should disclose your gross error in judgement not only to your parents but his as well. 
You asked him what you need to do to fix this mess?
He didn't make it, you did.
Therefore it is incumbent upon you to fix it.
You need to come up with a complete timeline and written report of what transpired, and offer it to him if he wants it.
I would recommend that you use this book as a starting point:









How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair


As an infidelity specialist for 23 years, therapist Linda J. MacDonald has identified behaviors and attitudes that determine unfaithful p...



www.goodreads.com





In addition, you should be doing everything possible to demonstrate transparency and remorse, such as but not limited to:
looking for another job, removing yourself from all social media (after your husband inspects all sites), turning all your devices over to your husband with all passwords for inspection, and arranging counseling for yourself with a counselor that specializes in infidelity issues. 
You need to be selfless, and do the hard work required to make yourself a safe spouse.
You need to feel the pain, take the heat, and do just about anything that is requested of you. You should be concerned with his pain, not yours.
If you are lucky, you might be able to salvage something and forge a new relationship. 
This isn't gonna buff out easily, if at all.


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## Trident

He can't just kick you out of the marital home even though he owned it before the marriage.

Eventually maybe but it would take a hearing in front of a judge for that to happen. 

As far as the rest of it goes- as long as you're trying to save yourself at his expense there's no chance of fixing this. I've seen some betrayed partners on this forum and others roll over and forgive, some of them immediately, others over time, but it appears your husband is strong enough and tough enough that he doesn't want to be with a woman who betrayed him in the worst possible way. Time will tell. Probably nothing you say or do one way or the other is going to affect the outcome but when you continue to act in a selfish manner as you did regarding those family pictures, you're only digging yourself into a deeper hole.


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## ABHale

Coming clean was the right thing to do.

There isn’t much you can do except to start reading anything you can on how to help your spouse heal after your affair.

Start individual counseling. 

Basically you ended the marriage when you slept with the other man. Any relationship after will have to start from scratch. No kids, I wouldn’t waste my time if I was your husband.


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## Tested_by_stress

Come clean to family what you've done. Don't let them specipulate and think ill of him when he is a no show to family functions.Do you still work with the pos AP? Does his fiancé know what you and he did? She should. You need to get yourself in IC but you also need to accept there may be no fixing what you've done.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

Bryanpb said:


> Do you have children with your husband?


No. No children.


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## QuietGuy

You have taken some good steps, but there is much more required. You will get some great advice here. Please know that if your BH offers reconciliation, it will require you both to be 100% in and it will take years. For most BS, the sex is a huge issue, but lying, minimizing and blame shifting are even worse. Answer all questions fully and truthfully no matter what. That is the only way that there is a chance he can start to trust you again. The only way he might stay with you is if he comes to believe that he can trust you again. In the end it will be his decision. You cannot control the outcome, so don't try. All you can do is work to make yourself a safe partner.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

manfromlamancha said:


> Others will weigh in with all kinds of observations, questions and advice. For now, my first question is how do you feel towards your POS affair partner? What do you think of him? Is his fiancee deserving of this (is she a bad person)? Do you still have feelings for him?


No. I have no feelings for him at all. I haven’t seen or spoken to him in almost eight months. He got a new job and moved out of state. And no I don’t believe his fiancé deserves this any more than my husband did.


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## Dictum Veritas

Trident said:


> He can't just kick you out of the marital home even though he owned it before the marriage.


This is not at all a given. Legally he might very well be in his rights to evict her on short notice if a prenup excludes the property from being marital property or they were married outside of community of property.


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## Trident

Dictum Veritas said:


> This is not at all a given. Legally he might very well be in his rights to evict her on short notice if a prenup excludes the property from being marital property or they were married outside of community of property.


Wrong on both accounts. A prenup "might" protect his separate marital asset if it's not challenged and overturned. 

That much being said, a pre-nup has nothing to do with him legally being able to simply throw her out in the street- one spouse cannot toss out another spouse just because the house might be considered owned by only one of them. As far as "married outside of community of property" I have no clue what that means but he still can't kick her out no matter what that might mean.

Even if they weren't married at all and we're talking about a friend, relative or even somebody who is renting a room- they would have established tenancy and he would still have to go through the eviction process.


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## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> No. No children.


Depending on what kind of a man your husband is, he might now feel that there is nothing to gain by staying married to you. I personally walked away from my adulteress ex-wife without looking back or ever speaking to her again 22 years ago and I have never looked back at a moment of us together with any kind of fondness and thanked God that we didn't have children that would have anchored me to her. What you did is a heart killer.

I am sorry to be a voice of doom, but I can only speak from my own experience and tell you a possible outcome to adultery. If nothing else, future you would have learned how devastating your choice to betray someone you love so egregiously is. I hope that lesson will serve you well, whatever the outcome may be.


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## frusdil

I'm glad that you're owning responsibility for what you did, but you're not going far enough. As others have said, you need to cut all contact with your affair partner, quit your job, tell your family what you did and fall to your knees in front of your husband, telling him that you know what you did was wrong and you get the complete and utter devastation you wreaked upon him. You need to give him specific examples of how you know this hurt him - how you've caused him to question your entire relationship, his worth as a man and husband, that you've made him feel "not enough". He needs to really know that you get it for your marriage to have a shot in hell of surviving this. Simply saying sorry isn't enough.

He can't kick you out of the marital home, but if he does request that you leave, you should - because it's the right thing to do. If he decides to divorce, don't fight him for assets, or alimony, just walk away, remembering that your actions caused this, and actions have consequences.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

Trident said:


> Wrong on both accounts. A prenup "might" protect his separate marital asset if it's not challenged and overturned.
> 
> That much being said, a pre-nup has nothing to do with him legally being able to simply throw her out in the street- one spouse cannot toss out another spouse just because the house might be considered owned by only one of them. As far as "married outside of community of property" I have no clue what that means but he still can't kick her out no matter what that might mean.
> 
> Even if they weren't married at all and we're talking about a friend, relative or even somebody who is renting a room- they would have established tenancy and he would still have to go through the eviction process.





Trident said:


> Wrong on both accounts. A prenup "might" protect his separate marital asset if it's not challenged and overturned.
> 
> That much being said, a pre-nup has nothing to do with him legally being able to simply throw her out in the street- one spouse cannot toss out another spouse just because the house might be considered owned by only one of them. As far as "married outside of community of property" I have no clue what that means but he still can't kick her out no matter what that might mean.
> 
> Even if they weren't married at all and we're talking about a friend, relative or even somebody who is renting a room- they would have established tenancy and he would still have to go through the eviction process.


There is no pre nup. However if he does ask me to leave I will. I’ve already done enough damage and I’m not going to try to take something that belongs to him. If he does decide he wants a divorce I e already decided that I won’t make it difficult on him. I hope and pray it won’t come to that but I’m that eventuality I would move out if it’s what he wants.


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## Dictum Veritas

Trident said:


> Wrong on both accounts. A prenup "might" protect his separate marital asset if it's not challenged and overturned.
> 
> That much being said, a pre-nup has nothing to do with him legally being able to simply throw her out in the street- one spouse cannot toss out another spouse just because the house might be considered owned by only one of them. As far as "married outside of community of property" I have no clue what that means but he still can't kick her out no matter what that might mean.
> 
> Even if they weren't married at all and we're talking about a friend, relative or even somebody who is renting a room- they would have established tenancy and he would still have to go through the eviction process.


I can site precedents in South-African case law. I did 3 years of a 4 year law degree (quit because I came to sanity). You cannot make the statement you made without knowing where OP resides as laws vary from country to country, province to province and state to state. I did not make a definitive statement as you did, thus I definitely am not wrong.

(Edit: Sorry Afrikaans speaking, translated legal term with incorrect spelling.)

This is a thread jack I will not further expand, but people who believe a Google search above actual case law are welcome to argue their point. Although difficult to eject a spouse, Badenhorst (1964) sets a un-overturned precedent by which an Interloci order can be granted.

Fear of violence or harm may also be sited and a temporary protection order will have the same effect.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

frusdil said:


> I'm glad that you're owning responsibility for what you did, but you're not going far enough. As others have said, you need to cut all contact with your affair partner, quit your job, tell your family what you did and fall to your knees in front of your husband, telling him that you know what you did was wrong and you get the complete and utter devastation you wreaked upon him. You need to give him specific examples of how you know this hurt him - how you've caused him to question your entire relationship, his worth as a man and husband, that you've made him feel "not enough". He needs to really know that you get it for your marriage to have a shot in hell of surviving this. Simply saying sorry isn't enough.
> 
> He can't kick you out of the marital home, but if he does request that you leave, you should - because it's the right thing to do. If he decides to divorce, don't fight him for assets, or alimony, just walk away, remembering that your actions caused this, and actions have consequences.


I have though about all of this over the last week. I want to fight for my marriage but I understand that he may never forgive me. If he decides that he wants a divorce I won’t fight him over anything. If he asks me to leave I will.


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## Beach123

Why don’t you ask him if that is what he wants?

Seriously, think about it - you told him to relieve YOURSELF of guilt… and in doing so you threw all kinds of hurt onto him - at his expense.

You have a LOT to repair. Cooking a meal doesn’t cut it - that’s hardly a start.

Tell all your family and friends today! That is how you take responsibility for what you’ve done to him. 

Then - maybe family will support HIM and totally understand why he doesn’t want to be around you - especially for a photo where he’s required to pretend for YOUR benefit! 

When you quit being so self centered and selfish - you may have a chance to fix what you’ve ruined.


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## jonty30

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I have though about all of this over the last week. I want to fight for my marriage but I understand that he may never forgive me. If he decides that he wants a divorce I won’t fight him over anything. If he asks me to leave I will.


Tell him that you won't fight him, if he wants a divorce. You do not deserve him, that's what you have to tell him.
However, you'll do anything that he needs you to do to save the marriage. Whatever he wants, you'll give.


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## Trident

Dictum Veritas said:


> I can site precedents in South-African case law.


No clue why you think South African law applies here but even if the Op resides in South Africa she STILL cannot be kicked out of the marital home without a court order, a quick Google Search confirms that to be the case.

In fact, in South Africa, a NON owner spouse can have an owner spouse evicted.









Evicting A Spouse During Marriage


A spouse, who is not the owner of the matrimonial property, can eject and evict the owner spouse from the property, pending a divorce action in terms of South Africa law.



www.divorcelaws.co.za





A spouse, who is not the owner of the matrimonial property, can eject the _owner spouse_ from the property, pending a divorce action.









Can I evict my spouse from the matrimonial home? - Abrahams & Gross Attorneys


Irrespective of whether you are married in community of property or out, one spouse is not entitled to evict the other spouse from the matrimonial home.




www.abgross.co.za





*May one spouse evict another from the home?*

The short answer is no. Irrespective of whether you are married in community of property or out of community of property, the general rule is that the spouse who rents or owns the property is not entitled to eject the other spouse from the matrimonial home, nor may the other spouse eject the spouse who rents or owns the property.

*Courts are reluctant to grant evictions*

South African courts are very reluctant to evict a spouse from the matrimonial home, especially if there are minor children involved. The court would have to take into account whether it would be in the best interests of the children to grant the eviction.


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## Megaforce

This could play out any number of ways. It is still very early. Having no kids weighs against you. Your husband seems fairly entrenched in not abiding this right now. I would think he is coming to the realization that he will never feel the same about you in the future. Some folks can accept this, others cannot. Just too soon to know where he stands on this.
He must have loved you a lot to be this angry and hurt. Your cheating has shown him you do not value him as much as he did you. Pretty sad, all for some cheap thrill. It is a blessing no kids are involved. Mine were seriously affected by their mother's s cheating.


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## Openminded

The truth is that if he were here posting his story he would very likely be told that with no children involved he should immediately divorce you and never look back. Whether he chooses to do that remains to be seen but that’s what he would be advised to do. If he does choose to stay he may require conditions that you won’t like. If that happens and you don’t feel that you can do what he needs done then it’s better to end it quickly instead of dragging it out. You blew up your marriage. Now you have to wait to see if he’s willing to rebuild it.


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## QuietGuy

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I have though about all of this over the last week. I want to fight for my marriage but I understand that he may never forgive me. If he decides that he wants a divorce I won’t fight him over anything. If he asks me to leave I will.


If he won't talk with you, perhaps you can write him a letter. Start researching councillors that specialize in infidelity. Read up on how to help your spouse heal from infidelity. At some point the yelling should subside, but you may have to tolerate it for quit a while.


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## Galabar01

You need to:

1) *Track down the fiance and let her know what happened. It doesn't matter if your AP moved out of state. Put in the effort and let her know.*
2) Get STD testing.
3) Offer him a divorce with terms favorable to him.
4) Get therapy so that you don't do this to the next person.
5) Tell everyone (your family and his) what you did and offer written and oral apologies.


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## Diana7

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> No. I have no feelings for him at all. I haven’t seen or spoken to him in almost eight months. He got a new job and moved out of state. And no I don’t believe his fiancé deserves this any more than my husband did.


Then make sure she knows what her fiance is capable of.


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## paboy

He is now rudderless, His life as he knew it, is over. He needs to feel in control of his life. 

Letting your family know is a great way to show consequences, BUT let him know about this first, encase he feels it more embarrassing. 

VERY IMPORTENT. Do not lie. Be an open book. Do not erase anything. Do not minimise. Do not blame shift.

If he finds out any lies, it resets the clock. 

A lot of bereaved spouses have divorced, not so much on the infidelity, but on the lies and the blame shifting that occurred after.

And for some, infidelity is a deal breaker.


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## GoldenR

Why not just go and be with your boyfriend? I mean, you made literally thousands of choices in favor of him over your husband from the beginning of the EA until you disclosed. Pretty much shows that deep down you prefer him over your husband.

And yes, it was thousands..


every time you thought about him
every time you got dressed with him in mind
every time you flirted with him
every physical act you did with him
every time you texted him
every time you called him
every time you talked to him
every time you looked at him

Thousands.


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## Evinrude58

So you’re saying that after months of thinking of nothing but how badly you wanted to bang your coworker, you all of a sudden have zero feelings for your coworker and you just looooooove your husband. Is this correct?

if so, I’ll ask: How?

like your husband I doubt your sincerity. I doubt you have strong feelings for antrying other than the comfortable, safe, secure life your husband provided.

With zero trust,how could he ever feel the same again?


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## Beach123

When a person doesn’t feel safe within a marriage - there is really nothing to work with.


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## colingrant

A few thoughts that come to mind. None of which are intended to make you feel bad, just wisdom from a man who's been there.

- You have demonstrated three very important things. You confessed to him. You confessed to the world (TAM). And you felt shame and regret immediately after consummating the sexual affair. Recognize these qualities and deeds and build upon them. Self awareness drives the post infidelity process.

- Before you fight for your marriage. Fight for him. This means helping him with his pain by making sacrifices that may include compromising your reputation and exposing your shame to those who feel the world of you. If you don't your husband will feel you have chosen your reputation over his healing, which essentially shows further selfishness and not selflessness, i.e., you are the same person after the affair as you were before the affair based on actions, not words.

- We're all different. If my wife cheated and repeatedly said she loved me, I would be INCENSED. Some men are moved by such words. Others are not. I would tell myself, my wife is continuing to make me into a fool thinking I'll feel better , but her actions speak of no such love. Does she think I'm stupid and so desperate that such claims of love is supposed to help heal my heart?

- What have you done or demonstrated that makes him feel you have changed and are remorseful. Would you move mountains for him and if so, does he know it? You have given him space for weeks, but to him it may appear that you are just waiting for him to come around. In the meantime, his resentment is growing which is what you experienced with his outburst of anger and crying. He is holding it in.

- He's not going to like it, but he'll probably need trauma therapy and what you are seeing is a man in shock and traumatized. He needs to see a trauma specialist or qualified independent counselor, just like a person who's been physically injured badly needs to be taken to an emergency room to address physical impairments. He's possibly quite emotionally impaired and it needs addressed asap. He may realize he needs this because of your infidelity, so you may encounter some resistance and anger merely from the suggestion. DO IT ANYWAY!!

- From his perspective, your silence may feel and look similar to when you felt "neglected and unloved" and you are still seeking to fill a void by another man. Just telling him you're not will not come close to be satisfactory to him because he thought you were loyal to him all this time. Your words will be 100% meaningless to him. Only actions and consistency will earn some trust and respect.

- By the way, it's possible that he too felt neglected and unloved last year, but he stayed faithful to you. If this is the case, he's angry that he treated you honorably and faithfully and it wasn't reciprocated.

- Betrayal often permanently adjusts the way people see the world and most importantly themselves and neither are healthy views. The betrayed learn to manage but never fully overcome.

*- Here's the view from many men's perspective;* Another man has entered my wife's mind, body and soul. The other man's occupation of my wife can never be reversed. Her lips and tongue engaged his. Her womanly parts received him. A man feels and thinks of this literally and conceptually. Words cannot express strongly enough, the psychological impact it has on a man. I've been cheated on twice. It's like a car being totaled, taken to the body shop and 100% restored, but something just isn't right and it never will feel like it did before the do over. Infidelity has a cost that outweighs the benefit so great, it defies logic.

_*- "It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved. "This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this".*_ - You're right about this. The first action to remedy matters is you providing a timeline detailing the who, when, where and why's of the affair. It will hurt both of you, but it's for the purpose of your husband's return to truth, amidst a time of lies and deceit. The period between the first kiss and sex will confirm the premeditated nature of your mindset and decisions. Your shame and disgust afterwards, will be hugely overshadowed by the dedication and conviction you showed by proceeding forward with the physical aspect. He may at some point be comforted by your shame, but it's best to not accentuate it as it will appear as if you seek pity, when in fact you demonstrated a strong willingness to engage in intimate relations knowing full well the potential devastation of the one you love.

- Answering "I don't know" will gain nothing even if it's true in some cases. Your job is to intensely and urgently find an independent therapist and find the answers. I saw nothing in your post indicating you making a move in this area. No movement can be seen as uncaring and not having the will or courage to face the demons and music. This is how he will judge you.

- You will be judged by your actions and steadfast determination where courage flies in the face of chaos. Apologies, and shameful tears will not exhibit the disposition of the one who's responsible for the ships sinking. You will have to captain this ship to safety and understand and accept that you may gain nothing if successful except your self dignity and respect.

- Your best bet is to help him recover if he lets you and allow that to be the best possible outcome. You will have to decrease yourself to increase him. Most unfaithful people are inherently selfish, hence this may be very hard for you to do.

- Your shame can weaken you and defeating it may be one of your life's greatest triumphs should you succeed.

- Research and read up on how you need to be for himself and for your own personal reconciliation.

*EDIT*
- Accept the fact that your husband may be a man who considers infidelity a deal breaker. I fall into this category and have an idea when I read of others. From what I read, I don't think your husband is there. Anger is not as telling as one would think. 

It sometimes looks worse than it is. I say this because he's angry towards you. This may mean he's angry that you make it hard for him to stay with you and he despises the fact that he feels inadequate, emasculated and embarrassed and may have to eat this feeling to reconcile and is livid about it. 

When the betrayed is cordial and indifferent is when the marriage is in real trouble. Detachment is sometimes required for emotional departure and once the betrayed is detached, they no longer fight the confused and roller coaster state where they stand between leaving and staying multiple times a day. 

When indifferent, they are free of it, hence can and often do depart amicably. They aren't mad but just determined and resolved to resetting their life with another person. They've realized their worth and are confident and optimistically seeking to find love with someone who can love and respect them. There is not turning back here as they've come to terms with the reality of the situation and at peace with the decision and what has happened. You'll know it when you see it.


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## ConanHub

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> There is no pre nup. However if he does ask me to leave I will. I’ve already done enough damage and I’m not going to try to take something that belongs to him. If he does decide he wants a divorce I e already decided that I won’t make it difficult on him. I hope and pray it won’t come to that but I’m that eventuality I would move out if it’s what he wants.


I'm going to reemphasize this book.








How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair


As an infidelity specialist for 23 years, therapist Linda J. MacDonald has identified behaviors and attitudes that determine unfaithful p...



www.goodreads.com





I'm glad you were honest with him.

His reactions and emotions are very normal and so are your feelings of helplessness when it comes to trying to heal your husband's hurt.

Get the book, it can give you some good directions and understanding.

Owning what you did to your family is better than making things up about your husband.

It is very good that your affair partner is gone.

Did anyone else know? Another coworker or friend?

I'm sorry you are learning this the hard way. It looks like talking to your husband helped resolve your initial problems but you had already destroyed your marriage.

Make sure to keep owning your actions and that includes when you inform your family.

They need to understand this is on you because your husband is the victim here.

There's no telling how things will turn out with your husband but you can at least do everything on your end even if your marriage is over.

I'm not trying to be a doom speaker but just realistic.

You don't have to give up though and you can love him with your actions and be patient with his very understandable emotions.


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## ConanHub

P.S. @colingrant gave a great breakdown and advice @Lost_And_Wandering


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## Casual Observer

To @Lost_And_Wandering - The fact that he's angry is actually a good sign; anger implies that he's not going to stay withdrawn forever. People who are angry are at least communicating. They're letting you into their world. The total silent treatment you were getting, which is completely understandable, gives you nothing to work with. With anger, you say or do something, he reacts. If he tells you what he's angry about (and the details might surprise you), a path forward might emerge. The worst thing would be limbo land, getting stuck without communication, not knowing, just each of you alone in your own separate feelings.

Ironically, while you have failed miserably at leadership in your marriage so far, this is your chance to make a difference. Come up with a plan, and execute it. Lay it out for your husband. First thing on that plan should be to tell your parents, his parents, so they know what your husband is going through. Second is to confess to your AP's fiance. She desperately needs to know what type of man she's about to marry. Then I'd suggest a therapist who deals not with infidelity but rather the mechanics of divorce, how it will make things better, how it might not. Don't try to save the marriage. That's not your decision. If he thinks it's worth a shot, then go to couples counseling. And if he's reisistant to individual therapy, this is where making sure his family/support network knows what's gone on. The less he can hide, the more likely he'll seek help.

And he needs help. You're watching someone go through PTSD in real time.

I do think it's OK to express your own selfish reasons for why you want to stay married. But don't think for a second you can understand why he'd want to. All the stuff that brought you to each other is over and done with. There may even be triggers in the favorite things you used to do together. 

The life you knew is over. Make sure you understand that, and how difficult the road ahead will be for you, for him, if you remain together. 

I wish you the best. You seem like you're willing to do what's best for your husband. That counts for something.


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## aine

You put a nuclear bomb in the middle or your marriage, drove over your husband with a heavy lorry and then got out and asked him how he is and offered him some chewing gum to ease the pain. The fact that you wont tell your parents and are still protecting your own image, and are willing to lie to them that he is sick, minimizes what you have done (even after all the time you have had to reflect). You can spout on here all you like about how bad you feel, blah blah blah. "i want to fight for my marriage" Nothing but words, you failed at the first test and wanted to lie about why he wasn't going to a family function. Please! You came clean, not out of a desire for honesty and transparency but because of your own guilt, which just shows your utter selfishness.

Words from a cheater and liar (yes that is what you are) mean absolutely nothing. Only actions. However, your actions show exactly who you are and you don't give a damn about your BH, you are only concerned with protecting yourself. You want to add more lies to the mess you created and are still more concerned about your discomfort and image that his pain. This tells him everything he needs to know about you. It is not worth reconciling with you. He is right to be totally disgusted with you.

You are still selfish and only concerned with yourself. You say you are willing to let him go and wont put up a fight, you make it sound like you are the poor victim but what is demonstrates is your total lack of remorse and unwillingness to pull out all the stops, make the sacrifices to help your poor husband and marriage. You have not reached your rock bottom. You want him to take you back without doing any of the work required to restore the trust that you broke. Cooking a dinner doesn't cut it at all, that is almost callous.
Your H needs to come out of his cave and take action. Wish he would come on this site so we could tell him what to do.

As for you,

1. you cut contact with OM, write a no contact letter
2. You tell OM's fiancé what you did
3. You write out a timeline of the affair including all details for your BH
4. YOU tell your family and friends what you did and why your BH is not coming to the family functions (don't make up more lies, you have already lied enough)
5. Be prepared to face the consequences of your actions
6. Get IC to see why you think when you are not getting enough attention it is ok to go and cheat and then not want to be fully responsible action wise

You need to see who you really are, words mean nothing.


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## Young at Heart

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I have though about all of this over the last week. I want to fight for my marriage but I understand that he may never forgive me. If he decides that he wants a divorce I won’t fight him over anything. If he asks me to leave I will.


You are starting to get her head around things. To answer your question, ".........
*Can I save my marriage?*........" the answer is it will take two to save the marriage him and you. It might even take three, which would include a marriage counselor. So no you can't save it by yourself.

My heart goes out for you. My advice to you is to work on "fixing" yourself and your emotional health. If he divorces you that will ultimately be his decision. What you need to do is work on yourself so doing what you did will be impossible in the future and so that you become a different person. If he divorces you, you want to become the kind of person that a future partner will find attractive and want to spend their life with. If he doesn't divorce you then you want to give him that same kind of improved you.

You know what you did was wrong, you now understand how deeply you have hurt your husband. His marriage has died in his eyes. He is greiving his dead marriage. There are steps to grieving. They include denial, bargaining, anger, depression and acceptance. His anger toward you probably hurt, but it is part of the process he has to go through if he is to reach acceptance.

Good luck, you really need some professional counseling help.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

I am reading through each and every comment on here. As for the people calling me a cheater and a liiar: you are correct. I am exactly that. I have no defense for what I did.

I realize now that I am going to have to tell my friends and family what I did. If my marriage truly is over they’re all going to want to know why. On the outside it looks to all of them that we’re a perfectly happy couple. If we break up many will assume it’s because of something he did and I will not allow them to think I’ll of him when he’s the wronged party.

I am to try to get my husband to communicate to me exactly what it is he wants from me. Does he want me to leave? Does he want a divorce? If he does want a divorce while I will be crushed I will go along with it and will not be asking for anything in return. I will not fight him over anything and will try to make it as easy as possible. I’m willing to let him go if that’s what will help him to start healing.

If by some miracle he says he’s willing to try to work through this I will do anything he asks. That includes quitting my job immediately, informing the other man’s fiancé, informing my family and friends and going to counseling for myself or as a couple of that’s what he wants. In fact I’m going to look into counseling for myself regardless. I will also allow him full access to all my devices and social media in order to show him that I haven’t done anything like this since that one time.

Right now though I am going to allow him to have his space and let him process this in his own way. After I tell my family I may ask my parents if I can come stay with them for a while so my husband can have his space. Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do. I won’t push him for a decision.


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## jonty30

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I am reading through each and every comment on here. As for the people calling me a cheater and a liiar: you are correct. I am exactly that. I have no defense for what I did.
> 
> I realize now that I am going to have to tell my friends and family what I did. If my marriage truly is over they’re all going to want to know why. On the outside it looks to all of them that we’re a perfectly happy couple. If we break up many will assume it’s because of something he did and I will not allow them to think I’ll of him when he’s the wronged party.
> 
> I am to try to get my husband to communicate to me exactly what it is he wants from me. Does he want me to leave? Does he want a divorce? If he does want a divorce while I will be crushed I will go along with it and will not be asking for anything in return. I will not fight him over anything and will try to make it as easy as possible. I’m willing to let him go if that’s what will help him to start healing.
> 
> If by some miracle he says he’s willing to try to work through this I will do anything he asks. That includes quitting my job immediately, informing the other man’s fiancé, informing my family and friends and going to counseling for myself or as a couple of that’s what he wants. In fact I’m going to look into counseling for myself regardless. I will also allow him full access to all my devices and social media in order to show him that I haven’t done anything like this since that one time.
> 
> Right now though I am going to allow him to have his space and let him process this in his own way. After I tell my family I may ask my parents if I can come stay with them for a while so my husband can have his space. Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do. I won’t push him for a decision.


I suggest asking what you can do to make it right, rather than suggest a divorce outright.
He may still ask for that divorce, once his head clears. However, if you ask him what you can do to make it right, he may consider that instead if it is the most forefront choice in his mind.


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## Diana7

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I am reading through each and every comment on here. As for the people calling me a cheater and a liiar: you are correct. I am exactly that. I have no defense for what I did.
> 
> I realize now that I am going to have to tell my friends and family what I did. If my marriage truly is over they’re all going to want to know why. On the outside it looks to all of them that we’re a perfectly happy couple. If we break up many will assume it’s because of something he did and I will not allow them to think I’ll of him when he’s the wronged party.
> 
> I am to try to get my husband to communicate to me exactly what it is he wants from me. Does he want me to leave? Does he want a divorce? If he does want a divorce while I will be crushed I will go along with it and will not be asking for anything in return. I will not fight him over anything and will try to make it as easy as possible. I’m willing to let him go if that’s what will help him to start healing.
> 
> If by some miracle he says he’s willing to try to work through this I will do anything he asks. That includes quitting my job immediately, informing the other man’s fiancé, informing my family and friends and going to counseling for myself or as a couple of that’s what he wants. In fact I’m going to look into counseling for myself regardless. I will also allow him full access to all my devices and social media in order to show him that I haven’t done anything like this since that one time.
> 
> Right now though I am going to allow him to have his space and let him process this in his own way. After I tell my family I may ask my parents if I can come stay with them for a while so my husband can have his space. Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do. I won’t push him for a decision.


Whether he stays or not you must still tell this poor woman what her husband did. Hopefully she hasn't married him yet. It's all part of being repentant. I suspect he moved away and left his job so she wouldn't fund out. 

Yes, give him time and space. Personally I would ask that he let you know when he has decided what he wants to do.
He hasn't asked you to leave yet, or asked for a divorce, so he is clearly not sure what he wants to do. For some it's an immediate clear decision, for others it takes time.


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## manwithnoname

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I am reading through each and every comment on here. As for the people calling me a cheater and a liiar: you are correct. I am exactly that. I have no defense for what I did.
> 
> I realize now that I am going to have to tell my friends and family what I did. If my marriage truly is over they’re all going to want to know why. On the outside it looks to all of them that we’re a perfectly happy couple. If we break up many will assume it’s because of something he did and I will not allow them to think I’ll of him when he’s the wronged party.
> 
> I am to try to get my husband to communicate to me exactly what it is he wants from me. Does he want me to leave? Does he want a divorce? If he does want a divorce while I will be crushed I will go along with it and will not be asking for anything in return. I will not fight him over anything and will try to make it as easy as possible. I’m willing to let him go if that’s what will help him to start healing.
> 
> If by some miracle he says he’s willing to try to work through this I will do anything he asks. That includes quitting my job immediately, informing the other man’s fiancé, informing my family and friends and going to counseling for myself or as a couple of that’s what he wants. In fact I’m going to look into counseling for myself regardless. I will also allow him full access to all my devices and social media in order to show him that I haven’t done anything like this since that one time.
> 
> Right now though I am going to allow him to have his space and let him process this in his own way. After I tell my family I may ask my parents if I can come stay with them for a while so my husband can have his space. Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do. I won’t push him for a decision.


Something that sticks in my head....you said that you had weeks to think between the kiss and the actual deed, went through with it regardless and then felt terrible right after? 
Is this because the sex was sub-standard? 
If the sex was the best you ever had, would you have not felt the same regret, and continued the affair?


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## jparistotle

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> No. I have no feelings for him at all. I haven’t seen or spoken to him in almost eight months. He got a new job and moved out of state. And no I don’t believe his fiancé deserves this any more than my husband did.


You or your husband needs to tell her. She needs to know the type of man she is marrying. Sorry to say it but your husband already knows the type of wife you are. Do not take that harahley it is just reality and you can not tkae it back. It will be there forever.


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## Tested_by_stress

OP, if your AP hadn't moved out of state, where would you be regarding him now? Would you still have told you're husband what you did if the AP hadn't left the area? Speaking for myself........If I were in your husband's shoes and unable to confront the AP, it would consume me like a cancer. Did they know each other?


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## She'sStillGotIt

*


Lost_And_Wandering said:



Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do.

Click to expand...

*Yes, there is.

You can tell lover boy's fiance what a POS she's REALLY engaged to. Don't you think she at least *deserves* the opportunity to make decisions about her own future before she marries this piece of crap based on a bunch of lies?

You afforded your husband that respect - *she* needs to be afforded the same respect.

I know you said he moved away 8 months ago and you're not in touch. But its not THAT hard finding out where Casanova and his girlfriend have moved. Something tells me you already know who she is and have probably looked up her online social media profiles - so contact her through those if you already know how to find her.

You know it's the right thing to do.


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## She'sStillGotIt

*


frusdil said:



..... and fall to your knees in front of your husband, telling him that you know what you did was wrong and you get the complete and utter devastation you wreaked upon him.

Click to expand...

*Ahh yes, the old *dog and pony show* of a cheater falling to their knees because they're OH so sorry - only *after* they're caught or exposed, of course.

You never see all this "remorse" from them *before* they cheat because maybe they've realized how they almost ruined things and are feeling horrible for almost doing it, so remorse drives them to confess. How many times has THAT happened? Yeah, I know. Too few to count.

No, you only see this phony "remorse" AFTER they've had their fun and they're trying desperately not to lose their spouse and family (and half their marital assets). Losing what they had at home was never their intention when they set out to cheat, so you'd better _believe _they're going to put on the performance of a lifetime. And if that means getting down in the fetal position and crying uncontrollably about how *"remorseful"* they are, that's what they'll do.   

The gnashing of teeth and the overflowing of crocodile tears during these Oscar-worthy performances is unrivaled by *anything* appearing on the Broadway stage. And sadly, most betrayeds will fall for it - and a lot of them will *regret* it when they catch their WS cheating AGAIN months or years down the road.

Honestly OP, I hope you're above putting on one of these phony little shows for your husband.


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## Diana7

manwithnoname said:


> Something that sticks in my head....you said that you had weeks to think between the kiss and the actual deed, went through with it regardless and then felt terrible right after?
> Is this because the sex was sub-standard?
> If the sex was the best you ever had, would you have not felt the same regret, and continued the affair?





She'sStillGotIt said:


> Ahh yes, the old *dog and pony show* of a cheater falling to their knees because they're OH so sorry - only *after* they're caught or exposed, of course.
> 
> You never see all this "remorse" from them *before* they cheat because maybe they've realized how they almost ruined things and are feeling horrible for almost doing it, so remorse drives them to confess. How many times has THAT happened? Yeah, I know. Too few to count.
> 
> No, you only see this phony "remorse" AFTER they've had their fun and they're trying desperately not to lose their spouse and family (and half their marital assets). Losing what they had at home was never their intention when they set out to cheat, so you'd better _believe _they're going to put on the performance of a lifetime. And if that means getting down in the fetal position and crying uncontrollably about how *"remorseful"* they are, that's what they'll do.
> 
> The gnashing of teeth and the overflowing of crocodile tears during these Oscar-worthy performances is unrivaled by *anything* appearing on the Broadway stage. And sadly, most betrayeds will fall for it - and a lot of them will *regret* it when they catch their WS cheating AGAIN months or years down the road.
> 
> Honestly OP, I hope you're above putting on one of these phony little shows for your husband.


To be fair she did tell him which so few cheaters do. Doesn't make it ok of course but it's even worse when you find out years later via another means.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

You did this after less than 3 yrs of marriage and have no children. The odds are not good for this surviving.Your husband deserves much better. There really is no good reason for him to continue.


----------



## Gabriel

You ask him what he needs. You don't suggest things. Just ask.

And don't leave unless he asks you to leave. It will just be another example of abandoning him.

He may want you around even if it's just to witness your guilt. In his shoes, I'd probably want to see how bad my wife was feeling about what she did. If she took off to her parents, I'd just assume she was done.


----------



## blackclover3

@Lost_And_Wandering few questions if you could please answer

1- did you use protection with the guy?

2- you said you guys kissed before becoming physically does that mean also you did oral before becoming physical?

3- did you do anything physically with the other man that you didnt do with your husband? 

take people's advice here, and my advice don't move with your parents to give him space. he will think the worst. 

you should take the initiative, 1- tell the other man's wife immediately - don't wait. this will show to your husband that you are taking the initiatives. 2- tell your family and friends 3- leave your job and let your husband know that after you submit your resignation. 

he might already be reaching to his ex girl friends or other women to have a one time round. don't stop him, this is his decision.


----------



## Evinrude58

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I am reading through each and every comment on here. As for the people calling me a cheater and a liiar: you are correct. I am exactly that. I have no defense for what I did.
> 
> I realize now that I am going to have to tell my friends and family what I did. If my marriage truly is over they’re all going to want to know why. On the outside it looks to all of them that we’re a perfectly happy couple. If we break up many will assume it’s because of something he did and I will not allow them to think I’ll of him when he’s the wronged party.
> 
> I am to try to get my husband to communicate to me exactly what it is he wants from me. Does he want me to leave? Does he want a divorce? If he does want a divorce while I will be crushed I will go along with it and will not be asking for anything in return. I will not fight him over anything and will try to make it as easy as possible. I’m willing to let him go if that’s what will help him to start healing.
> 
> If by some miracle he says he’s willing to try to work through this I will do anything he asks. That includes quitting my job immediately, informing the other man’s fiancé, informing my family and friends and going to counseling for myself or as a couple of that’s what he wants. In fact I’m going to look into counseling for myself regardless. I will also allow him full access to all my devices and social media in order to show him that I haven’t done anything like this since that one time.
> 
> Right now though I am going to allow him to have his space and let him process this in his own way. After I tell my family I may ask my parents if I can come stay with them for a while so my husband can have his space. Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do. I won’t push him for a decision.


Well, you at least listening and SEEM somewhat sorry for what you did…..
A question: WHY? Lots of people have bad spots in their marriage, but don’t even consider cheating. Why did you cheat? Was the guy THAT handsome? THAT smooth talking? Even if he was, why did you not feel some anger when he approached you with flirting—- he knew you were married! Do you realize he obviously thought pretty poorly of your character If he thought flirting with you would yield results? I know married women that would be repulsed by even a very handsome, athletic, well spoken man—— because they’d know he was a scumbag if he was getting too friendly with them. 

so why did you not react that way? You should figure that out.

you are right to give your husband space, and the angrier he is, the better your chances. When or if he becomes indifferent to you—- it’s likely you can forget him and move on.

I personally hope he divorced you, so you abd he might have a chance of fixing things….. because if he takes you back with no consequences, you and he likely have no chance of reconciling.

You have no idea of what you have done to your husband. He will never trust ANYONE like he once did. His view of love may be forever changed. He is feeling like he is alone in life.
You stole all this from him. You stole his image of you as a good person from him. 
He likely thought daily about what a fine woman you were and how much he loved that you were his and looked forward to taking trips snd sharing life with you. All that you wrecked in seconds. You may one day reconcile, but he will forever worry and be waiting for the other shoe to drop.

You’ve got a rough road to travel, even if your husband chooses to let you remain in his life.


----------



## Tdbo

jonty30 said:


> However, you'll do anything that he needs you to do to save the marriage. Whatever he wants, you'll give.


More than just this.
She needs to take the initiative.
She needs to come up with a solid plan, that can be added to or modified to meet his needs.
Then she has to be willing to do so, with full humility, accepting all accountability.
She should vet and have prepared to implement, any resource he needs to help make him feel whole and safe.
She should have an attorney ready to prepare a postnup favorable to him if he is willing to gave her a second chance.
She made the mess. She needs to be the one to clean it up.


----------



## Tdbo

Young at Heart said:


> You are starting to get her head around things. To answer your question, ".........
> *Can I save my marriage?*........" the answer is it will take two to save the marriage him and you. It might even take three, which would include a marriage counselor. So no you can't save it by yourself.
> 
> My heart goes out for you. My advice to you is to work on "fixing" yourself and your emotional health. If he divorces you that will ultimately be his decision. What you need to do is work on yourself so doing what you did will be impossible in the future and so that you become a different person. If he divorces you, you want to become the kind of person that a future partner will find attractive and want to spend their life with. If he doesn't divorce you then you want to give him that same kind of improved you.
> 
> You know what you did was wrong, you now understand how deeply you have hurt your husband. His marriage has died in his eyes. He is greiving his dead marriage. There are steps to grieving. They include denial, bargaining, anger, depression and acceptance. His anger toward you probably hurt, but it is part of the process he has to go through if he is to reach acceptance.
> 
> Good luck, you really need some professional counseling help.


It might actually take four or five.
She needs IC to address and fix her personal malfunctions that lead to her blowing up her marriage.
He will probably need IC to address the trauma from her actions and betrayal.
After that, if there is anything to work with, some MC will probably be required to tidy up the debacle.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Tested_by_stress said:


> You did this after less than 3 yrs of marriage and have no children. The odds are not good for this surviving.Your husband deserves much better. There really is no good reason for him to continue.


I agree. There’s literally no reason on earth for him to forgive me. If that’s the case I will accept the consequences of what I’ve done.


----------



## Tdbo

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Ahh yes, the old *dog and pony show* of a cheater falling to their knees because they're OH so sorry - only *after* they're caught or exposed, of course.
> 
> You never see all this "remorse" from them *before* they cheat because maybe they've realized how they almost ruined things and are feeling horrible for almost doing it, so remorse drives them to confess. How many times has THAT happened? Yeah, I know. Too few to count.
> 
> No, you only see this phony "remorse" AFTER they've had their fun and they're trying desperately not to lose their spouse and family (and half their marital assets). Losing what they had at home was never their intention when they set out to cheat, so you'd better _believe _they're going to put on the performance of a lifetime. And if that means getting down in the fetal position and crying uncontrollably about how *"remorseful"* they are, that's what they'll do.
> 
> The gnashing of teeth and the overflowing of crocodile tears during these Oscar-worthy performances is unrivaled by *anything* appearing on the Broadway stage. And sadly, most betrayeds will fall for it - and a lot of them will *regret* it when they catch their WS cheating AGAIN months or years down the road.
> 
> Honestly OP, I hope you're above putting on one of these phony little shows for your husband.


Totally agree with this.
The only shot that OP has is that he has to see her totally broken down to base level.
He has to see her groveling and broken. I mean rubber room level.
He has to see her debase herself to his level of pain, and he needs to see her willing to crawl through broken glass and fire for him.
Then she has to be willing to do the hard work to make herself a better spouse and person, not only for him but for herself.
Even if all this is successful it is still an extremely long shot.
The dynamic does not provide him with any incentive (< 3 yrs in, no kids.) Trading up is probably easier for him.
Her salvation (if there is one) is being genuine, and openly showing true remorse.
If she wants to save it, she better stop worrying about her reputation, and start worrying (and addressing) her Husband's pain.


----------



## SubtleEnchantment

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I am reading through each and every comment on here. As for the people calling me a cheater and a liiar: you are correct. I am exactly that. I have no defense for what I did.
> 
> I realize now that I am going to have to tell my friends and family what I did. If my marriage truly is over they’re all going to want to know why. On the outside it looks to all of them that we’re a perfectly happy couple. If we break up many will assume it’s because of something he did and I will not allow them to think I’ll of him when he’s the wronged party.
> 
> I am to try to get my husband to communicate to me exactly what it is he wants from me. Does he want me to leave? Does he want a divorce? If he does want a divorce while I will be crushed I will go along with it and will not be asking for anything in return. I will not fight him over anything and will try to make it as easy as possible. I’m willing to let him go if that’s what will help him to start healing.
> 
> *If by some miracle he says he’s willing to try to work through this I will do anything he asks. That includes quitting my job immediately, informing the other man’s fiancé, informing my family and friends and going to counseling for myself or as a couple of that’s what he wants. In fact I’m going to look into counseling for myself regardless. I will also allow him full access to all my devices and social media in order to show him that I haven’t done anything like this since that one time.*
> 
> Right now though I am going to allow him to have his space and let him process this in his own way. After I tell my family I may ask my parents if I can come stay with them for a while so my husband can have his space. Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do. I won’t push him for a decision.


Why haven’t you done any of this already off of your own back? You should have been seeking professional help as soon as you f’d up! 

You now need to be proactive showing him that he can trust you. You cheated, not him. Why is the burden of responsibility on him to sort out this mess you created?

Without getting preachy, you need to start righting some wrongs you’ve committed. I’d suggest starting by informing OBS (She deserves to know) and telling your family. You should not burden your husband with keeping your horrible secrets.

edit: typos


----------



## SunCMars

You did the right thing and confessed.
You are now being punished and rejected, again the right outcome.

Two rights, as these, take you 180, backwards, not forward.

You need to make two more rights.

Divorce your husband. _Right one_.
Learn from your mistake, and do not repeat it. _Right two_.

Now, you are 180, going forward, on the right track.

We all make mistakes, your's was not fatal, but God, does it hurt!


----------



## DallasCowboyFan

I think you need to tell him that it will never happen again and that you can't change the past, but certainly would if you could. Tell him that you learned your lesson before you even told him and you couldn't stand to keep it as a secret anymore, that he deserved to know. That you don't expect him to recover quickly, but you need his forgiveness and you want to make a new life with him. His response will tell you how to proceed. 

Others on here say you don't deserve forgiveness and maybe you don't, but you should ask for it. Don't ask for nor expect a quick recovery, but ask for a chance to begin the healing process as a couple. If you never ask for it, you will never get it. You may not even if you do ask.

I wouldn't tell my friends and family. In a near discussion with him, I would offer to tell them but tell him that you are hoping for another chance and that telling everyone else will just impair any chance to heal as it will bring community judgement not just on you but on him if he chooses to stay with you. If he chooses to forgive and heal, having the world know will make healing more difficult. 

I am not saying that you will ever get past this as a couple, but you certainly will not if you don't try and ask him for the opportunity. Offer to go to counseling as a couple. Most people who cheat eventually find a long term successful relationship. Some even find success in the one in which they cheated. It's not easy, but there is a chance


----------



## QuietGuy

Do not leave unless he asks you to. There should be no need to quit your job since your AP has moved away. Inform your husband of your plans to tell your family in case he wants to keep thinks private for now. Good luck.


----------



## Kaliber

@Lost_And_Wandering do not expose your infidelity to your parents (Or anyone) before you get the green light from your husband.. AGAIN, get the green light from him first!
Exposing yourself will be very embarrassing for him, so ask him first, he might not be ready in facing the fact that other people (Your parents or others) know about the cheating, it's very embarrassing for many betrayed spouses!


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

SunCMars said:


> You did the right thing and confessed.
> You are now being punished and rejected, again the right outcome.
> 
> Two rights, as these, take you 180, backwards, not forward.
> 
> You need to make two more rights.
> 
> Divorce your husband. _Right one_.
> Learn from your mistake, and do not repeat it. _Right two_.
> 
> Now, you are 180, going forward, on the right track.
> 
> We all make mistakes, your's was not fatal, but God, does it hurt!


I don’t _want _to divorce my husband but I realize that decision isn’t mine. It’s his. If that is what he ultimately tells me he wants then I am prepared to accept that as much as it will hurt. I am willing to do anything he asks in order to help ease this pain I have caused him.


----------



## Openminded

The answer to your question is maybe, maybe not. No one knows what’s going on in your husband’s mind at this point — maybe not even him. Many people think they know how they’ll react and what they’ll do if infidelity is involved but when it happens they find themselves doing the opposite of what they thought they’d do. That’s because emotions take over and emotions are unpredictable. Apologize, if you haven’t, for asking him to take part in a photo that he would forever hate even if he had considered doing it. That was definitely wrong. As for the rest, that’s his decision to make. If he shares what happened with his friends and family they will very likely tell him to leave so probably the only one wanting to save the marriage will be you. Some come back from those odds and some don’t.


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## SunCMars

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I don’t _want _to divorce my husband but I realize that decision isn’t mine. It’s his. If that is what he ultimately tells me he wants then I am prepared to accept that as much as it will hurt. I am willing to do anything he asks in order to help ease this pain I have caused him.


I _do hope_ he can forgive you


----------



## GoldenR

Are you going to tell your man's wife about the affair? Or will you stay silent & continue to put him over your H?


----------



## Galabar01

You need to tell the fiance now.


----------



## ThrowAway123

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I don’t _want _to divorce my husband but I realize that decision isn’t mine. It’s his. If that is what he ultimately tells me he wants then I am prepared to accept that as much as it will hurt. I am willing to do anything he asks in order to help ease this pain I have caused him.


You said you are willing to do anything; so, what actions have you taken other than begging to show your husband that you can be a faithful partner again? *You still haven't told your AP's fiance about the affair; you still haven't come clean to your family/ friends(and still being defensive about it).* Why should he consider you a safe partner? 

From your posts, you have done nothing other than some lip service. *Have you given him a compleate written timeline of the affair(backed up with proof )? Have you provided him all your electronics( & their passwords)? Have you done the STD test(MOST IMPORTANT)? Have you sent the AP a no contact letter? *If not, it's a perfect time to start them.

You must have said ILY to your husband during the affair too. If it didn't mean anything during, why should it now? And how will he believe you are telling the truth NOW? For a betrayed spouse words of a wayward dont mean anything, only their actions count. 
If you really want to save the marriage like you said, take above mentioned actions before its too late.


----------



## colingrant

I forgot to include an important *"do not say this" *suggestion.

Don't tell your husband, you ended the affair because you realized your AP was unthoughtful, unkind, unloving and selfish or however you thought of him from the December kiss to the sex? Nearly every WW says this not knowing they've self implicated themselves.

Here's why. When my fiancé rattled off the character flaws of her AP and how he doesn't compare to me, she thought she was complimenting me, when in fact she was INSULTING me. 😂 I can laugh about it now but here's the point.

By stating what your AP doesn't have actually implies (wrongly or rightfully) that if he did in fact have these personal attributes, you would have left your husband for him. I'm not saying you would have, but the implication and logic is indisputable.

So, in my fiancé's case, my immediate thought was, "hmmm, what if her AP possessed or exhibited (even falsely) such positive personal qualities? The only logical conclusion I could come up with is, she chose to return to me only because her AP was a fraud, otherwise she'd be gone.

So, my next thought was, I'm not staying and waiting to see if she finds the next person with the personal qualities she previously said her AP didn't have, which essentially reduces me to being a placeholder until such man is introduced into her life.

Personally, I would have preferred her to say, "

_"Colin Grant my AP was thoughtful, considerate, unselfish and gave me all the attention a woman could ask for. I willfully made a series of decisions and massive error in judgement and come to realize, you are who I want to be with. I want you, not a different version of you but you just as you are. You don't have to change to be loved and accepted by me.

You are already loved and accepted by me. All I ask is the opportunity to grow, individually and then together as one. I must reconcile myself before I can ask to be part of your life so that I can be the wife and woman you deserve and we can go from there if you can grant me and us the opportunity to do so.

THE most important thing to me however is that you regain emotional health and stability and can recover from the damage I imparted upon you. If you need to divorce me to feel safe, I will comply with your wishes as your emotional health and welfare is what's most important to me. You first. Us second.

Should you grant me the opportunity to re-win your love, trust and respect while the divorce is in waiting or afterwards, I would be eternally grateful."_

Note; Apologize for the grammar, run-on sentences, etc.


----------



## Willnotbill

I don't think the OP should do anything unless or until she can get a dialog of some kind with her husband. If she were to tell her family it might cause the husband more shame or embarrassment that would make the situation worse. She has a very uphill battle and it will be very difficult to save the marriage. It doesn't sound like the husband will even have a conversation with her and I don't blame him. Hopefully his pain and anger will subside enough where they can at least talk.


----------



## Willnotbill

Another thing @Lost_And_Wandering, there may be a time where your husband wants to talk or has questions. They may be simple questions or he may ask for a graphic description of the sex act. No matter what he asks you should answer him honestly and completely. Don't leave anything out no matter how bad it is. If he feels you are holding back it will make it worse for him and he will have a hard time believing you.

You are probably aware of this but there is no comparison to the hurt he is feeling. Even if you are able to mend your relationship his pain will last for years and maybe forever. In 10 years you might think you are past it but something he sees or a dream will cause a trigger that will tear the scab off. It would be normal for him to have questions many years later. I know you will take a beating here by some people but I wish you well.


----------



## Lynnsnake

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Hello. I am a 30 year old woman. My husband is 33. We’ve been together for six years and married for three. Last year I made the single worst mistake of my life and had an affair with a male coworker. I have no excuse for what I did. It was wrong, selfish and self destructive. At the time I had excuses but I now realize that that is exactly what the were. Excuses.
> 
> My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.
> 
> I made the horribly selfish decision to seek comfort from a male coworker who had in the past made it clear to me that he was attracted to me. I’d always shut it down quickly before but at last year’s company Christmas party I was weak and I accepted his advances. We kissed after the party and began to text secretly to plan a tryst.
> 
> This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this. But I went ahead anyway. It was exciting and he paid attention to me and flattered me and I was a weak and foolish person and played along.
> 
> Then we met at a hotel and had sex. I almost immediately regretted my decision. I felt dirty and cheap laying there in that hotel bed while my husband was off at work none the wiser. I actually started to cry right there and my coworker only worried that I’d tell my husband and he’d get beaten up or that his fiancé would find out.
> 
> After this happened I immediately rededicated myself to being a good wife. I opened up to my husband about my feelings of neglect. He apologized for making me feel that way. He was so open to us working things out it made me realize how poorly I’d treated him. I was wracked with guilt over what I’d done.
> 
> I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good. But I’ve been stressed nonetheless. I’ve been suffering from guilt and remorse. Every time my husband would g out of his way to do something thoughtful or sweet I’d almost break down in tears.
> 
> A couple months ago I started getting shingles. I was told it could be from stress. My husband was so understanding and kind. He thought I was stressed from work. Right at the beginning of November he surprised me with a trip to a cabin for a long weekend to help me get my mind off my stress.
> 
> I just couldn’t take it and I broke down sobbing. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t continue to lie to him. I broke down and confessed everything to him.
> 
> At first he sat there in total shock. He asked if I was serious. I said yes. I was so sorry but yes. He sat there for a long time just not moving or saying anything. Then he asked me what he’d done to deserve this. I told him nothing. He didn’t deserve this at all. He asked me why. Why would I do this to him. To us. I apologize again and said I had no excuse. I was wrong and I had no excuse.
> 
> He got up and left the room and ignored me the rest of the night. When it was time for bed I came into the bedroom and he told me to go sleep in the guest room because he didn’t want to share a bed with me anymore. So I’ve been sleeping in the guest room ever since.
> 
> For the next two weeks he wouldn’t speak to me. Would barely look at me. He would eat with me. He’s been spending all his time at home either in the garage or down in the basement watching television. I honest think before this week we may have passed one of two sentences between us. I’ve been trying to give him space. I’m on eggshells because I’m terrified he’s going to tell me he wants a divorce and ask me to leave. (He owned the house before we met so I think he’d be within his rights to throw me out.)
> 
> On Monday this week I tried to start showing him nice gestures. I made him his favorite dinner Monday and when he came home from work he took one look at me and said he’d lost his appetite. He made a bowl of cereal and went down in the basement again.
> 
> Yesterday I asked him quietly if he was going to come with me Sunday to have our family picture taken for Christmas. This is a tradition in my family. My parents all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and all my nieces and nephews get together and we take a picture. I have had the heart to tell anyone in my family what I’ve done. I’m so ashamed of myself I can’t bring myself to do it.
> 
> He asked me why I thought he’d want to go anywhere with me and said maybe I should take my boyfriend instead. I said I don’t have a boyfriend I have a husband I love very much who I’d do anything in the world to keep. He said I’d do anything except keep my panties on while he’s not around. He was getting angrier and angrier. I’ve never really seen him so angry. I wasn’t exactly afraid of him though. It wasn’t like he was threatening me. He was just angry and the look of hatred he was giving me broke my heart.
> 
> I again told him how sorry I was and begged him to tell me what I can do to try and fix this. He just laughed and said it’s probably broken beyond repair at this point. I said don’t say that, please don’t say that. He asked me how the **** I thought he was supposed to feel. And I had some nerve to think he’d go get a picture taken with me.
> 
> I said it’s fine I’ll tell my family that you’re sick. He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t. Then he said this: “Don’t worry I’m not going to broadcast to the world that my wife is a *ing **.”
> 
> It devastated me to hear him call me that. This man who I love so much called me a ***. I just stood there and took it though because he’s right to be angry with me. I cried and he told me to spare him the phony tears. Then he told me to get the **** out of his basement and leave him alone. Then he broke down crying. The only time I’ve ever seen him cry before was when his dad died two years ago. But there he sat sobbing. I put my hand on his shoulder and he told me not to touch him. Just the feeling of me touching him makes him sick.
> 
> Before I left I said quietly one more time that I do love him. That I’m sorry for hurting him and I’ll do whatever I can within my power to save our marriage. He just waved me off so I went upstairs. We haven’t spoken at all since. He’s been working twelve hour days since this all started so he can avoid me as much as possible. When he came home tonight he took a shower and immediately went down the basement again. My stomach is on knots with pain, sorrow and fear that I’ve destroyed my marriage. Is there anything I can do to save us?


I caught my wife a few years ago. She planned a two week backpacking hike on the Appalachian trail with her hiking friend, Susan. two days before departure, she asked if I minded if her H ,Joe , and his friend Len went along. I said I didn’t like it, but she talked me into it. Long story short, Len and my W ended up in bed together. I don’t know how many times, but there were lots of Cum stained panties . When confronted , she said a weird guy masterbated in her panties. She thinks she got away with, but I know she cheated and it ain’t over. She will pay.


----------



## Davit Bek

@Lost_And_Wandering Not talking to him or accepting divorce when he asks you will only make him think how little everything meant to you. Initiate loving gestures even if he refuses. Make his favorite dinner, just know that a lot more of them will end up in the trash before he can eat one. If someone stopped their loving gestures upon my request, I'd think they have stopped caring. He is tremendously hurt. More than you'll know. Even if he divorces you, don't just leave. Accept whatever little room he allows for you in his life, and fight to get back to being his wife. That's what I'd want someone to do in the same position. My heart truly breaks for him. He is in hell.


----------



## Beach123

Lynnsnake said:


> I caught my wife a few years ago. She planned a two week backpacking hike on the Appalachian trail with her hiking friend, Susan. two days before departure, she asked if I minded if her H ,Joe , and his friend Len went along. I said I didn’t like it, but she talked me into it. Long story short, Len and my W ended up in bed together. I don’t know how many times, but there were lots of Cum stained panties . When confronted , she said a weird guy masterbated in her panties. She thinks she got away with, but I know she cheated and it ain’t over. She will pay.


This was a few years ago?
Why haven’t you addressed it with your cheating spouse in the past few years?


----------



## ConanHub

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I am reading through each and every comment on here. As for the people calling me a cheater and a liiar: you are correct. I am exactly that. I have no defense for what I did.
> 
> I realize now that I am going to have to tell my friends and family what I did. If my marriage truly is over they’re all going to want to know why. On the outside it looks to all of them that we’re a perfectly happy couple. If we break up many will assume it’s because of something he did and I will not allow them to think I’ll of him when he’s the wronged party.
> 
> I am to try to get my husband to communicate to me exactly what it is he wants from me. Does he want me to leave? Does he want a divorce? If he does want a divorce while I will be crushed I will go along with it and will not be asking for anything in return. I will not fight him over anything and will try to make it as easy as possible. I’m willing to let him go if that’s what will help him to start healing.
> 
> If by some miracle he says he’s willing to try to work through this I will do anything he asks. That includes quitting my job immediately, informing the other man’s fiancé, informing my family and friends and going to counseling for myself or as a couple of that’s what he wants. In fact I’m going to look into counseling for myself regardless. I will also allow him full access to all my devices and social media in order to show him that I haven’t done anything like this since that one time.
> 
> Right now though I am going to allow him to have his space and let him process this in his own way. After I tell my family I may ask my parents if I can come stay with them for a while so my husband can have his space. Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do. I won’t push him for a decision.


Make sure he has a friend or family member to look after him.
He is angry and disgusted with you right now but he is also feeling worthless and lost.

He might get worse if you leave believe it or not.

Someone needs to keep tabs on him to make sure he is taking care of himself.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

So sorry @Lost_And_Wandering about what you have done, but also remember that besides the actual act of betrayal he also feels very betrayed by the deceit that you withheld or actually lied to him about your affair for months before you finally let him know. He feels like you were living a lie by not confessing as soon as it happened and saw him as fool. He is really probably hurt by tge luring as much as the sex itself. Best of luck!


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## paboy

Be careful about leaving. He may think it is for your benefit, and there are a lot of reasons why he would think that. BUT also, separating allows him to process how he can handle you not in his life. You need to allow him room to breath but let him see that you are there, and wanting to do anything to fix things.


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## ThreeHundo

This is heartbreaking. Your husband got the best version of you only after you betrayed him and continued that betrayal with lies of omission every single day until you confessed. 

Another huge problem is you let the poor fiancé of the POS remain in the dark and now there is a good chance she has married that cheating a$$hole. The selfishness is astounding.

on the plus slightly less ****y side, you confessed and are seemingly remorseful.


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## Marc878

*Warning*!!! A lot of marriage counselors are morons. It would be better if you sought a good individual counselor. Even then be careful. If they try and blame your husband or the marriage walk away.
The marriage isn’t broken I doubt but you need to find out why you cheated. Even if this marriage ends you don’t want to go through this again. Repeated infidelity happens it’s not uncommon.

I always cringe at marriage counseling because of the horror stories I’ve seen. They are not gods and some create even bigger problems. They are notorious rugsweepers.


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## Imnobodynew

Hey op?

I'm a bs/ws. You cannot control your husband. You should not seek his answer. You should do. Offer his him intimacy. Give him transparency. Let you family and friends know. Timeline.read books.

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Linda J. MacDonald: 9781450553322 is a good place to start.

Do. Don't talk. Don't demand. Don't badger those are about you. Show your working on being a safe partner. Don't hide your emotions. Say I love you but don't ask for it back. Take actions. Even if they are not appreciated. Do the Joseph's letter on surviving infidelity. Do. Do. Do.

Show your working on being a safe partner. Not offfer. Expect no reward. No celebration. No accolades. No appreciation (at this point). No reciprocation. Just move forward. Self-esteem building towards yourself and un-selfish towards him. The longer you ask him. The more your losing him. You need to show him.

Everything you read a BS needs do it. Make it your motto. Live it. Make it real for him.

Asking makes it look like your trying to save you.


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## Diana7

Lynnsnake said:


> I caught my wife a few years ago. She planned a two week backpacking hike on the Appalachian trail with her hiking friend, Susan. two days before departure, she asked if I minded if her H ,Joe , and his friend Len went along. I said I didn’t like it, but she talked me into it. Long story short, Len and my W ended up in bed together. I don’t know how many times, but there were lots of Cum stained panties . When confronted , she said a weird guy masterbated in her panties. She thinks she got away with, but I know she cheated and it ain’t over. She will pay.


A few years ago? Why haven't you done anything about it?


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## jonty30

Lynnsnake said:


> I caught my wife a few years ago. She planned a two week backpacking hike on the Appalachian trail with her hiking friend, Susan. two days before departure, she asked if I minded if her H ,Joe , and his friend Len went along. I said I didn’t like it, but she talked me into it. Long story short, Len and my W ended up in bed together. I don’t know how many times, but there were lots of Cum stained panties . When confronted , she said a weird guy masterbated in her panties. She thinks she got away with, but I know she cheated and it ain’t over. She will pay.


You should have ended the marriage right then and there.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

GoldenR said:


> Are you going to tell your man's wife about the affair? Or will you stay silent & continue to put him over your H?


REDACTED


Imnobodynew said:


> Hey op?
> 
> I'm a bs/ws. You cannot control your husband. You should not seek his answer. You should do. Offer his him intimacy. Give him transparency. Let you family and friends know. Timeline.read books.
> 
> How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Linda J. MacDonald: 9781450553322 is a good place to start.
> 
> Do. Don't talk. Don't demand. Don't badger those are about you. Show your working on being a safe partner. Don't hide your emotions. Say I love you but don't ask for it back. Take actions. Even if they are not appreciated. Do the Joseph's letter on surviving infidelity. Do. Do. Do.
> 
> Show your working on being a safe partner. Not offfer. Expect no reward. No celebration. No accolades. No appreciation (at this point). No reciprocation. Just move forward. Self-esteem building towards yourself and un-selfish towards him. The longer you ask him. The more your losing him. You need to show him.
> 
> Everything you read a BS needs do it. Make it your motto. Live it. Make it real for him.
> 
> Asking makes it look like your trying to save you.


what does bs/ws mean?


----------



## jonty30

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Shut the **** up. I messaged the girl over Facebook this afternoon.
> 
> what does bs/ws mean?


Betrayed spouse
Wayward or wandering spouse


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## OddOne

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Shut the **** up. I messaged the girl over Facebook this afternoon.


I understand you not liking the comment, but it's not a good way to respond and you're probably going to get a moderator warning because of it. Don't post your anger out online unless you really don't care about the consequences.


----------



## rugswept

You're fully prepared now for what you have to do. You're ready. 

First: tell him what you told us. 
You appear to have true remorse and are owning this whole mess. 
There's a chance that if you are 100% truthful, right down to any detail he wants (no matter how embarrassing that is or self disgusting), and you profess exactly what you did here, he may find a way to accept you. No lies or you're done, believe it.


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## Trident

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Shut the **** up.


Language! You’re not the one who was cheated on. People here are just trying to help.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

Trident said:


> Language! You’re not the one who was cheated on. People here are just trying to help.


No the guy I was talking to was making snide remarks repeatedly. He wasn’t trying to help. I blocked him.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Did the OBS respond to you about you and her adulterous partner's illicit relationship? You have to be sure she knows and that he didn't intercept and suppress your communication.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Dictum Veritas said:


> Did the OBS respond to you about you and her adulterous partner's illicit relationship? You have to be sure she knows and that he didn't intercept and suppress your communication.


No she hasn’t responded but I sent her screen shots of our conversations on Facebook messenger pre and post hookup.


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## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> No she hasn’t responded but I sent her screen shots of our conversations on Facebook messenger pre and post hookup.


Have you told your husband about your communication with her? It would be advantageous to keep him in the loop about this since it is a communication with someone close to the AP. You took a well advised and selfless action here and I'd hate for your husband to see it as anything different.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Dictum Veritas said:


> Have you told your husband about your communication with her? It would be advantageous to keep him in the loop about this since it is a communication with someone close to the AP. You took a well advised and selfless action here and I'd hate for your husband to see it as anything different.


Last night I wrote my husband a letter. Nearly eight pages long. Taking the advice of several posters in here I spelled out everything that happened during my affair. I left nothing out and made no effort to make myself look like anything but what I am: a liar and a cheater. I also told him that while I can repeatedly apologize for my actions that my word mean nothing to him because I understand that he can’t trust me right now. I said I know he doesn’t owe me anything but I’m hoping we can sit down and discuss this. I also told him that I sent the message to this woman and I am willing to tell my family and friends if that’s what he wants. 

More than one poster said he may not want me to do that and after thinking it over I feel they were right. I have already humiliated him enough. If he doesn’t want to her people know right now I won’t tell them. If he does then I will tell them. The reason I wrote a letter is because right now I feel like he doesn’t want anything to do with me. If I were to try to start this conversation in person he would simply shut me down. When I handed him the letter he didn’t immediately rip it up or throw it out. He simply took it from me and said “OK” when I said I’d like him to read it. Again I’m not going to push him.


----------



## TDSC60

I give props for telling your husband the truth about the affair even though it took months of stress and guilt for you to get to that point.

More props for realizing that the decision for what happens next is his and his alone.

I think for the majority of men a physical affair spells the end of the marriage.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Last night I wrote my husband a letter. Nearly eight pages long. Taking the advice of several posters in here I spelled out everything that happened during my affair. I left nothing out and made no effort to make myself look like anything but what I am: a liar and a cheater. I also told him that while I can repeatedly apologize for my actions that my word mean nothing to him because I understand that he can’t trust me right now. I said I know he doesn’t owe me anything but I’m hoping we can sit down and discuss this. I also told him that I sent the message to this woman and I am willing to tell my family and friends if that’s what he wants.
> 
> More than one poster said he may not want me to do that and after thinking it over I feel they were right. I have already humiliated him enough. If he doesn’t want to her people know right now I won’t tell them. If he does then I will tell them. The reason I wrote a letter is because right now I feel like he doesn’t want anything to do with me. If I were to try to start this conversation in person he would simply shut me down. When I handed him the letter he didn’t immediately rip it up or throw it out. He simply took it from me and said “OK” when I said I’d like him to read it. Again I’m not going to push him.


These were all the correct actions. I am not a man who would stay in the marriage, but I am not your husband. You are doing the things now that would at least give you the best chance of building a new relationship with the man you betrayed.


----------



## Diana7

TDSC60 said:


> I give props for telling your husband the truth about the affair even though it took months of stress and guilt for you to get to that point.
> 
> More props for realizing that the decision for what happens next is his and his alone.
> 
> I think for the majority of men a physical affair spells the end of the marriage.


And women.


----------



## QuietGuy

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Last night I wrote my husband a letter. Nearly eight pages long. Taking the advice of several posters in here I spelled out everything that happened during my affair. I left nothing out and made no effort to make myself look like anything but what I am: a liar and a cheater. I also told him that while I can repeatedly apologize for my actions that my word mean nothing to him because I understand that he can’t trust me right now. I said I know he doesn’t owe me anything but I’m hoping we can sit down and discuss this. I also told him that I sent the message to this woman and I am willing to tell my family and friends if that’s what he wants.
> 
> More than one poster said he may not want me to do that and after thinking it over I feel they were right. I have already humiliated him enough. If he doesn’t want to her people know right now I won’t tell them. If he does then I will tell them. The reason I wrote a letter is because right now I feel like he doesn’t want anything to do with me. If I were to try to start this conversation in person he would simply shut me down. When I handed him the letter he didn’t immediately rip it up or throw it out. He simply took it from me and said “OK” when I said I’d like him to read it. Again I’m not going to push him.


Good for you. You are miles ahead of most waywards. You are giving your relationship its best chance to survive. Remember to to completely honest and open. do not hold anything back to spare his feelings because it won't be seen that way by him. Good luck.


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## Trident

All you can do now is wait.

And maybe cook a few of his favorite meals.


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## Emerging Buddhist

SunCMars said:


> You did the right thing and confessed.
> You are now being punished and rejected, again the right outcome.
> 
> Two rights, as these, take you 180, backwards, not forward.
> 
> You need to make two more rights.
> 
> Divorce your husband. _Right one_.
> Learn from your mistake, and do not repeat it. _Right two_.
> 
> Now, you are 180, going forward, on the right track.
> 
> We all make mistakes, your's was not fatal, but God, does it hurt!


A very powerful statement was once made... "go and sin no more"

It was a great trial of sorts, focused on accountability and forgiveness at many layers, sadly it ended far too soon as it never discussed the betrayed partner and a path for them.

When it comes to selflessness and selfishness, where do you feel you are coming from? Many statements and actions come from the latter, the above quote comes from the former.

So many of your shared thoughts and actions are trying to find a way for another to ease your suffering... please consider starting from within.

I will not tell you what you need to do, but consider what is built when we create such suffering, and often a first best step is being alone to really focus on why our thoughts and action create such unsettling around us. There are no timeframes or schedules, there are no expectations or influencers of expectations... there is only the truth of recognition that our desires have choices attached to them that can either help, or harm. and doing no harm should be foremost in our thoughts and deeds.

Consider what value the time alone will bring you, if it is hard to think about, it is probably the right path.

In time you may be able to offer a far better version of you, selflessly.


----------



## Marc878

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I am reading through each and every comment on here. As for the people calling me a cheater and a liiar: you are correct. I am exactly that. I have no defense for what I did.
> 
> I realize now that I am going to have to tell my friends and family what I did. If my marriage truly is over they’re all going to want to know why. On the outside it looks to all of them that we’re a perfectly happy couple. If we break up many will assume it’s because of something he did and I will not allow them to think I’ll of him when he’s the wronged party.
> 
> I am to try to get my husband to communicate to me exactly what it is he wants from me. Does he want me to leave? Does he want a divorce? If he does want a divorce while I will be crushed I will go along with it and will not be asking for anything in return. I will not fight him over anything and will try to make it as easy as possible. I’m willing to let him go if that’s what will help him to start healing.
> 
> If by some miracle he says he’s willing to try to work through this I will do anything he asks. That includes quitting my job immediately, informing the other man’s fiancé, informing my family and friends and going to counseling for myself or as a couple of that’s what he wants. In fact I’m going to look into counseling for myself regardless. I will also allow him full access to all my devices and social media in order to show him that I haven’t done anything like this since that one time.
> 
> Right now though I am going to allow him to have his space and let him process this in his own way. After I tell my family I may ask my parents if I can come stay with them for a while so my husband can have his space. Right now there isn’t much else I can do except wait for my husband to decide what he wants to do. I won’t push him for a decision.


Let your husband decide if he wants people to know. He may not. Like most he’s probably very embarrassed.
This early he probably doesn’t know what he wants. He’ll be on the roller coaster for some time.
Like any forum take what you need and leave the rest.

sorry I saw you already addressed this.


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## SubtleEnchantment

Well done. Every long march starts with the first steps and those steps are always the hardest. Start working on yourself and your husband will tell you what he wants you to do when he’s ready.

Seriously well done for being proactive. A little bit at a time makes a lot.


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## PreRaph

Lost and Wandering, you did the right thing by telling him, and the right thing by being as honest as you can in a situation where it is so much easier to be dishonest. This may make a big difference.

Now it's up to your husband. I wish you the best.


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## colingrant

> When I handed him the letter he didn’t immediately rip it up or throw it out. He simply took it from me and said “OK” when I said I’d like him to read it. Again I’m not going to push him.


You stand a chance. His "OK" was huge. He could have said nothing and walked away. I'll repeat what I said in my first post. HIS ANGER IS NOT NECESSARILY A SIGN OF ONE FOOT BEING OUT THE DOOR. His anger actually has him THINKING about it, but not necessarily walking towards it. 

The angry ones who stay in the house very often stay in the marriage, or at least tries to. I was not living with my fiancé after cheating. I saw her 5 times in one year following the December confession. The 2nd time I saw her following confession was while attending a New Years Eve party together. Huge mistake on my part. I didn't realize how much I despised and resented her until she physically stood near me. 

At the party, whatever room she was in, I wanted to leave it. When standing together with champagne, she tries engaging and I respond looking anywhere but at her when I did. Never at her. As 12 midnight approaches, I nearly made up an excuse to go the bathroom at 11:55 and faking not knowing midnight was coming up just to miss the kiss. 

I decided to just get it over with and gave a peck at 12 as if she was my sister. I diverted the tension by asking if she wanted more to drink to get away from her. That feeling never changed, hence our engagement ended shortly thereafter. My experience however says this isn't the norm. Most seek to engage eventually, seeking to understand by identifying the who. why, when and where. I only needed to know she had sex with him. Nothing more was needed as it was irrelevant. 

Don't predetermine your husband closing the door because if you read 100 betrayed male spouses, you will see most are so emotionally broken, they don't have the spirit or self worth at the time of being cheated on to muster up the strength to make such a bold departure. This is what you're not considering. Yes, he's mad. He's also broken hearted and full of self-doubt and worth. 

His anger is from the feeling he has about himself because of your infidelity. Emasculation, shame and embarrassment will break the most confident of men. There is nothing more painful in the world than for another man to take your woman or wife. His brokenness can give you a chance as he's seeking pain relief. Ever see a dog that's been battered and abused? It growls, snarls and barks incessantly to protect itself from further abuse as the human seeking to comfort it looks like the same humans who abused it. That's where your husband is at the moment. Remember, you are the perpetrator that placed him here so he's still growling and barking even though you're bringing him dog food and treats. 

It's the human that approaches with impassioned but calculating and consistent care each day that begins to break down the dog's defenses. The growls first subsides, then the barks slow in intensity and then one day the dogs tail wags. Could take weeks but your persistence and calculated approaches can help break his defenses down. It can be done, you just have to step outside of your own defeatism enter into his despaired state and understand what you are looking at. He's a wounded animal who is forced to protect his heart and soul. Feel this in your own heart and soul and then act accordingly.


----------



## Galabar01

I think it is a positive step to contact the other party. However, you need to follow up. A message on Facebook may not be enough to get her attention. Make sure that you contact her and that she has all the information you have. Give her everything she needs.


----------



## Casual Observer

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> No the guy I was talking to was making snide remarks repeatedly. He wasn’t trying to help. I blocked him.


Your actions provide painful triggers for many, and you should pause, think and learn from those nasty remarks, rather than respond in kind. Because you can’t respond in kind. There’s no common point of reference. You can’t know what they feel, and they can’t know that you’re any more faithful or worthwhile than the partner who betrayed them.

And, there’s a pretty common arc we see some wayward spouses go through, where they start out very contrite and open, but after a while they start focusing on themselves, their ego comes out full force, you hear more and more about things the betrayed spouse did that led up to it, and finally how the marriage wasn’t working anyway.

The OP starts responding less frequently, but their TAM stats show they’re still reading the thread. Until 60-90 days after the initial post, when they disappear.

That’s not what always happens, but it’s tough to be open and vulnerable enough to stay here and face the music, just as it’s tough to put your betrayed spouse first in all things while maintains any semblance of self.

So… be careful not to take any joy in putting someone down, no matter how badly they acted towards you here. You need to own a reply like this-

“I’m sorry you feel that way and hope, for my husband’s sake, not mine, that you’re wrong. I can’t pretend that the flaws in my character that allowed the affair to happen will go away simply because I want them to. I am not the person my husband thought he married, and the journey forward will be terribly difficult for him. I may think I have changed, but what I think has not served me well so far.

So I will listen to my husband, I will take the abuse that I have earned, and despite wanting to protect myself, I will remain open and vulnerable to him.”

Or something like that.


----------



## AGoodFlogging

OP I suggest you have got what you can from TAM and staying on here is likely to just lead to you wanting to justify yourself and use up that openness and willingness to accept responsibility that you need to have in good supply for your husband if he wants them.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Casual Observer said:


> Your actions provide painful triggers for many, and you should pause, think and learn from those nasty remarks, rather than respond in kind. Because you can’t respond in kind. There’s no common point of reference. You can’t know what they feel, and they can’t know that you’re any more faithful or worthwhile than the partner who betrayed them.
> 
> And, there’s a pretty common arc we see some wayward spouses go through, where they start out very contrite and open, but after a while they start focusing on themselves, their ego comes out full force, you hear more and more about things the betrayed spouse did that led up to it, and finally how the marriage wasn’t working anyway.
> 
> The OP starts responding less frequently, but their TAM stats show they’re still reading the thread. Until 60-90 days after the initial post, when they disappear.
> 
> That’s not what always happens, but it’s tough to be open and vulnerable enough to stay here and face the music, just as it’s tough to put your betrayed spouse first in all things while maintains any semblance of self.
> 
> So… be careful not to take any joy in putting someone down, no matter how badly they acted towards you here. You need to own a reply like this-
> 
> “I’m sorry you feel that way and hope, for my husband’s sake, not mine, that you’re wrong. I can’t pretend that the flaws in my character that allowed the affair to happen will go away simply because I want them to. I am not the person my husband thought he married, and the journey forward will be terribly difficult for him. I may think I have changed, but what I think has not served me well so far.
> 
> So I will listen to my husband, I will take the abuse that I have earned, and despite wanting to protect myself, I will remain open and vulnerable to him.”
> 
> Or something like that.


I will agree I have earned whatever anger and scorn my husband holds toward me. I will not dispute that at all. However I won’t sit still while an internet stranger takes their frustrations out on me.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

My husband approached me this morning and said “We need to talk later today.” I said ok. He said he has some things he promised his sister he’d help her out with at their mom’s house and he’d be home sometime around four o’clock today. So I think he read my letter and has figured out what he has to say to me and perhaps how he wants to deal with what I have done. My stomach is in knots and I’m so nervous I feel like I’m going to be sick. I have no idea what he’s going to say or ask of me. For all I know he could ask me for a divorce. I’m prepared to accept whatever his decision is. Right now all I care about is helping him to heal from what I’ve done and if us no longer being together is what he needs to heal then I will accept that.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Much like he was powerless when you went through with your adultery, you are now powerless to dictate his decisions. You need to realize that you have no control over his choices, just as he had no means to control your choices. You have taken good steps as of late, but whatever his choice is now in reaction to your adultery, you need to accept it and work with him to make the steps to the future as smooth and painless as possible.

In a way, divorce would demand much less of you in terms of emotional, physical and spiritual investment than if he decides to give you another chance.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Dictum Veritas said:


> Much like he was powerless when you went through with your adultery, you are now powerless to dictate his decisions. You need to realize that you have no control over his choices, just as he had no means to control your choices. You have taken good steps as of late, but whatever his choice is now in reaction to your adultery, you need to accept it and work with him to make the steps to the future as smooth and painless as possible.
> 
> In a way, divorce would demand much less of you in terms of emotional, physical and spiritual investment than if he decides to give you another chance.


I never said I can dictate his choices. I’ve made it quite clear that I understand that and am prepared for whatever he says to me later today.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I never said I can dictate his choices. I’ve made it quite clear that I understand that and am prepared for whatever he says to me later today.


I was just confirming something which your answer here has highlighted. Defensiveness is a natural response for you and defensiveness leads to attack. You may deflect and say that it is justified since I am a mere internet stranger. No, this is part of your core personality which is much easier to bring to play without consequences to yourself with someone who has absolutely no leverage in your life, but is merely hidden behind a mask to those who have.

Please be careful with your husband, suppress this character trait, because it will ill serve you. Good luck to you and your husband in this unpleasant interaction you will both have to endure.


----------



## Casual Observer

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I will agree I have earned whatever anger and scorn my husband holds toward me. I will not dispute that at all. However I won’t sit still while an internet stranger takes their frustrations out on me.


is that all you got out of my post? Primarily you focus on why it’s ok to defend yourself against jerks? That’s not a part of your brain you should allow to be engaged right now. Blocking is fine but when you try to justify it (swearing at a nasty person here) on TAM, it feels like you’re ability to rationalize will be your marriages undoing.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Casual Observer said:


> is that all you got out of my post? Primarily you focus on why it’s ok to defend yourself against jerks? That’s not a part of your brain you should allow to be engaged right now. Blocking is fine but when you try to justify it (swearing at a nasty person here) on TAM, it feels like you’re ability to rationalize will be your marriages undoing.


I came here for help and advice. Not to be berated by strangers. If I wanted bitter men to trash me I would have posted this on Reddit.


----------



## Diana7

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I came here for help and advice. Not to be berated by strangers. If I wanted bitter men to trash me I would have posted this on Reddit.


They are a lot of bitter men here unfortunately, just take what helps and reject what doesn't. 
Lots of us here have been deeply hurt by betrayals, just remember that. 

It sounds as though he may have made some decisions which is a good thing no matter what. You can't stay in limbo too long. 
If the news isn't good, please don't turn on the years or beg. 
Respect his decision.


----------



## Casual Observer

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I came here for help and advice. Not to be berated by strangers. If I wanted bitter men to trash me I would have posted this on Reddit.


TAM is an equal opportunity forum. You will find bitter men and women.

The value comes in understanding the range of emotions your husband could experience. You have to think that not everybody reacting viscerally we’re born that way. Chances are, on a forum like this, their attitudes and mannerisms were forged through their spouses infidelity.

And, of course, some people are simply jerks. When you see somebody responding inappropriately, don’t just block them but also report them to the mods. What do you expect the outcome to be when you engage them?


----------



## Sufi22

Lost_And_Wandering You have done several positive steps including accepting the fact that you cannot control the outcome and giving your husband a complete accounting and timeline of your betrayal. That's more than many of us get in the short term. TAM is largely a forum of people who have been betrayed by their significant others, so the reactions towards wayward here can be intense. I hope you understand you can take the helpful advice you get here and disregard the rest.There are also many forums (beyond Reddit) where you can get feedback on relationships, infidelity and betrayal. in particular surviving infidelity dot com has a wayward section where you can get critical but empathetic feedback from other people on the road to either reconciliation or divorce. Good luck with you husband when you talk today. In any case I hope you keep posting.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Sufi22 said:


> Lost_And_Wandering You have done several positive steps including accepting the fact that you cannot control the outcome and giving your husband a complete accounting and timeline of your betrayal. That's more than many of us get in the short term. TAM is largely a forum of people who have been betrayed by their significant others, so the reactions towards wayward here can be intense. I hope you understand you can take the helpful advice you get here and disregard the rest.There are also many forums (beyond Reddit) where you can get feedback on relationships, infidelity and betrayal. in particular surviving infidelity dot com has a wayward section where you can get critical but empathetic feedback from other people on the road to either reconciliation or divorce. Good luck with you husband when you talk today. In any case I hope you keep posting.


I have taken much helpful advice from both men and women on here and I am grateful for it. Most of the steps I’ve taken have been because of this advice. I am also going to talk to my older sister later this evening and tell her everything. I trust her to not tell anyone else and although I know she won’t be happy with me I know she’ll have good advice for me.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Sufi22 said:


> Lost_And_Wandering You have done several positive steps including accepting the fact that you cannot control the outcome and giving your husband a complete accounting and timeline of your betrayal. That's more than many of us get in the short term. TAM is largely a forum of people who have been betrayed by their significant others, so the reactions towards wayward here can be intense. I hope you understand you can take the helpful advice you get here and disregard the rest.There are also many forums (beyond Reddit) where you can get feedback on relationships, infidelity and betrayal. in particular surviving infidelity dot com has a wayward section where you can get critical but empathetic feedback from other people on the road to either reconciliation or divorce. Good luck with you husband when you talk today. In any case I hope you keep posting.


I have taken much helpful advice from both men and women on here and I am grateful for it. Most of the steps I’ve taken have been because of this advice. I am also going to talk to my older sister later this evening and tell her everything. I trust her to not tell anyone else and although I know she won’t be happy with me I know she’ll have good adv


Diana7 said:


> They are a lot of bitter men here unfortunately, just take what helps and reject what doesn't.
> Lots of us here have been deeply hurt by betrayals, just remember that.
> 
> It sounds as though he may have made some decisions which is a good thing no matter what. You can't stay in limbo too long.
> If the news isn't good, please don't turn on the years or beg.
> Respect his decision.


The tears I won’t be able to control but I will definitely accept whatever he tells me.


----------



## QuietGuy

As the saying goes, take what is helpful and ignore the rest. You are not under any obligation to respond to anyone here if you don't want to. It is very early for your husband to have made a final decision. If he has, he may still change his mind. If he says he wants to D, I would suggest that you respond by telling him that you love him and you would rather fight for him and the marriage, but if he is determined to D, you will work with him to make it as straight forward as possible. He needs to know clearly that you think he is worth fighting for.


----------



## oldshirt

blackclover3 said:


> @Lost_And_Wandering
> 
> 3- leave your job and let your husband know that after you submit your resignation.


She said the AP has moved away so my advice is NOT quit the job. 

If she is unemployed, her BH may have to pay some kind of spousal support for awhile. 

And for her own sake, she will need a means to support herself in case they do split.


----------



## Casual Observer

QuietGuy said:


> You are not under any obligation to respond to anyone here if you don't want to.


This is key. What one chooses to respond to, and how, sends signals to not just those on a forum, but indicates how things might go with the betrayed spouse as well.

To @Lost_And_Wandering -You have to be always always ALWAYS mindful and present. Recovery is all-consuming and allows for now gaps without awareness of the job at hand. You can’t allow yourself to become an abused rag doll, but beyond that, there isn’t much allowance for ego, self-preservation and defensiveness. You need to be all-in or all-out.

If all-in, then rude remarks here are something tofirst ponder, is there something to them, something to take to heart? And if not, then ignore as unproductive and a waste of time.

Such remarks are more likely those that suggest there is no alternative but divorce because you’ve destroyed him. That’s very different from listening to someone explain how he MIGHT feel.


----------



## Casual Observer

oldshirt said:


> She said the AP has moved away so my advice is NOT quit the job.
> 
> If she is unemployed, her BH may have to pay some kind of spousal support for awhile.
> 
> And for her own sake, she will need a means to support herself in case they do split.


Yes, it seems like a lot of the advice given is based on the opening act and ignores all the subsequent info. She was quite clear about the guy moving away so why do people keep getting on her case about quitting her job?

Boilerplate answers are inappropriate, especially in what,so far, is a pretty short and readable thread. OP is to be commended for keeping things on track.


----------



## oldshirt

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.
> 
> 
> We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better.


@Lost_And_Wandering Could you elaborate on this a little more. It may have some relevance.

What were these "Flaws" that you noted? What were the issues over money? In what ways was there no intimacy? Were you rejecting him or was he rejecting you? How long did you two go without intimacy? 

putting your affair aside; what turned things around in your marriage? 

I haven't seen these things addressed throughout this thread and I think they could have some current and potentially even future relevance here.


----------



## oldshirt

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> My husband approached me this morning and said “We need to talk later today.” I said ok. He said he has some things he promised his sister he’d help her out with at their mom’s house and he’d be home sometime around four o’clock today. So I think he read my letter and has figured out what he has to say to me and perhaps how he wants to deal with what I have done. My stomach is in knots and I’m so nervous I feel like I’m going to be sick. I have no idea what he’s going to say or ask of me. For all I know he could ask me for a divorce. I’m prepared to accept whatever his decision is. Right now all I care about is helping him to heal from what I’ve done and if us no longer being together is what he needs to heal then I will accept that.


It is not unusual for a man to hole-up in his man cave for awhile to come to grips with his own emotions and formulate various scenarios and plans etc in his head. 

In many ways this is actually healthy and beneficial vs blowing up and saying and doing things in the heat of the moment that can cause further harm and basically throw gas on the fire. 

Even though a lot of people say that they would instantly toss their spouse to the curb if they were to find out they cheated, very very few actually do that when that moment actually comes. And those that do knee-jerk toss out the spouse, most of those will recant at some point in the upcoming days and weeks. 

I'm not saying that those marriages often survive intact down the road. I'm saying that it is rare to instantly toss someone out. 

If he has not yet asked any very specific questions regarding your affair... and by specific I mean asking you exactly how many times and where you met, what positions you did, did you use condoms, did he ejaculate inside you or in your mouth, did you do anal, did you do things with him you do not do with your H etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. 

I'm guessing he does not have a specific plan of whether to divorce or not yet. He may have calmed himself down to where he can do more fact-finding in an effort to determine whether he thinks the marriage is worth trying to salvage or not. 

There's kind of a catch-22 here. If you try to lie and gaslight and rugsweep etc You run a great risk of hammering the final nails in the coffin. Most BS's will tell you that it is the lying and the rugsweeping that bother them the most. So before you tell any further lies or try to downplay or gaslight, be aware, you may be digging the grave for your marriage even deeper. 

But the catch-22 is even if you are forthright and tell the truth, he may still choose to opt out. That seems like kind of a bitter irony to seemingly be punished for telling the truth, but it is only by facing the reality of the situation that he can make an informed decision on whether to put forth honest effort at reconciliation or not. 

My personal opinion is you have a little better chance of a sincere effort at reconciliation if you are candid and forthcoming. It's no guarentee of course and he does not owe you a marriage for being honest about an affair. But I think your odds of at least trying to work things out are at least a little better by being honest. 

However I also think that even if he opts out, I think the more candid and forthcoming you and the more accepting you are of his decision, I think long term that that will decrease the residual anger and resentment and drama and will cause less long term damage and trauma and baggage for each of you down the road. 

Now he may ask for a formal separation today so that he can gather more info and collect his thoughts and do some soul-searching etc. But I have the feeling him wanting to talk today will be more about fact-finding and also finding out where your head and your heart is at rather than announcing his intention to divorce at this point. 

I think if his knee-jerk response was to divorce, he would have already told you and would have already been packing bags and consulting lawyers etc etc. Divorce takes a lot of work and time and effort. I think he has been man-caving and soul searching and his emotional state has settled down to where he is able to conduct a rational discussion and fact-finding in effort to help decide what the next step may be. 

Whether you attempt reconciliation or divorce, this will be a marathon and not a sprint.


----------



## PreRaph

Diana7 said:


> They are a lot of bitter men here unfortunately,


And some outright misogyny as well. It's disturbing and sad, because I for one could never live without the women who have loved me and cared for me throughout my life, whether they be mothers or sisters or relatives or girlfriends or wives or just plain friends. They have always meant so much to me. Those who see in women nothing but mercenaries who are out to use men until they satisfy their hypergamous instincts never see them at all, and they will never know what it means to truly communicate with a woman. Yeah, I have met some women like that and had the good sense to leave them to themselves. 

@Lost_And_Wandering deserves a great deal of credit for owning up to what she did. Very, very few do until they are caught red-handed. It's terrible to be betrayed by the one you love, but we are not perfect creatures, and it is far, far easier to stray that many of us would like to admit. I hope her husband has it in him to forgive her.


----------



## oldshirt

PreRaph said:


> @Lost_And_Wandering deserves a great deal of credit for owning up to what she did. Very, very few do until they are caught red-handed. It's terrible to be betrayed by the one you love, but we are not perfect creatures, and it is far, far easier to stray that many of us would like to admit. I hope her husband has it in him to forgive her.


If she stays on the course she is presenting to us, I believe he can in time forgive her. 

But we need to keep in mind that forgiveness does not always mean remaining together. 

And remaining together does not always mean that one has forgiven. 

Forgiveness and remaining married are not synonymous.


----------



## PreRaph

oldshirt said:


> If she stays on the course she is presenting to us, I believe he can in time forgive her.
> 
> But we need to keep in mind that forgiveness does not always mean remaining together.
> 
> And remaining together does not always mean that one has forgiven.
> 
> Forgiveness and remaining married are not synonymous.


Indeed they are not.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Well. My husband and I finally spoke. He said he hasn’t processed this whole thing yet. He’s been wavering between anger and pain for three weeks since I told him. He says one minute he’s prepared to throw me out of the house and the next he’s determined to find a way to fix our marriage.

His main question was why? Why would I do this? He said he’s wracked his brain trying to figure out what brought us to this point. I told him about my feelings at the time. Which I know are terrible weak excuses for what I did. He said I should have talked to him instead of this. Anything but this.

He asked me questions that I never thought I’d have to answer because I never thought in my worst nightmare that I’d ever cheat. But I answered all of his questions honestly, knowing that some of the answers would case him pain but also knowing that to hide anything at this point would definitely kill my marriage.

I told him that I know it rings hollow but I do live him and I am ready to do whatever it takes to help him heal from what I did. He asked questions and information about the other guy. Which I gave him. Hoping to god he doesn’t do something dumb like go beat the guy up. He asked me if I really told the other guys fiancé and I said yes I messaged her.

Apparently my husband has done some digging of his own and knows who she is and is prepared to contact her himself. Somehow he’s got her phone number. I’m not sure how but he had a number he believes is hers and he’s going to call her. I haven’t heard back from her. What can I say but I understand he wants to make sure this guys fiancé knows what happened. He also said he wants to read anything I have that was texted between me and the guy. He wants to look through my phone, iPad and computer. Which I agreed to and gave him all my passwords.

He finally told me he’s not sure we can save our marriage or if he even wants to. He’s made it clear that he doesn’t think he will ever trust me again and may never trust anyone again. So he’s decided he’s going to see a therapist by himself to work all of this out. I asked about couples counseling and he said he’s not ready for that yet. He doesn’t even know if he ever will want to do that.

He also told me he’s been in contact with an attorney so he can know what his legal rights are if he decides to ask me for a divorce. He made it clear that there’s a very good chance that this is going to end up in a divorce and told me to be ready for that. He made it clear to me that he will fight me tooth and nail when it comes to his pension and 401k. I told him if it comes to that I won’t make any claim to any of his retirement benefits. I could do that to him after the damage I’ve already inflicted.

So he said that until after the holidays we’ll put on a brave face because he doesn’t want our problems to ruin either of our family’s Christmas. But after the new year he thinks the best thing for us is to separate while he figures out what it is he wants. He says it’s much too painful for him to be around me right now because it’s constant reminder of what I did. He said I can continue to sleep in the guest bedroom until I can find a place to live.

I agreed that I will move because as I mentioned in my first post he has owned this house since before we started dating. He’s put so much work into turning it into a beautiful home that I could never bring myself to fight him for the right to stay here. I told him I’m going to have to tell my family and friends what had happened once I move and he said he knew that. I told him I will be honest with them and make it clear that our separation is because of my affair and not something he did.

Again he made it clear that he’s not certain he even wants to try to save our marriage because he doesn’t know if he’ll ever trust me again. And that’s the worst thing because he told me he loves me even after what I did to him but the trust is gone. I understand why he feels this way and it’s something I will have to live with. He also said something that made me realize how rotten I’ve been. He said he isn’t going to use our separation as an excuse to see other women because he wouldn’t do that to me. He said his first instinct was to meet someone else and get revenge that way but he couldn’t bring himself to do it. I am powerless to even say anything about his because what could I say if he did that? I know he could easily find someone. My husband is a really good looking guy and I’ve become accustomed to other women looking at him and sometimes even trying to flirt with him when we’re out. He’d always smile and flash his wedding ring at them. Yeah, I realize now just how brutally I’ve treated him.

That’s my update for now. I may post again in the coming weeks if anything new develops but for now that’s about it.


----------



## Diana7

It sounds as if he has given this a lot of thought in the short time he has known and he seems to be making some fair and sensible decisions. 
It is the trust that shatters, and that is so hard to ever get back. I am glad he isn't going to go out and find a woman, that helps no one. 

Time will tell, but it may be a while before he knows for sure by the sound of it.


----------



## QuietGuy

Thank you for the update. It sounds like he is getting good advice as well. This is good because it means that he will realize that you are a much better than average candidate for R if that is what he decides he wants. Good luck.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Well. My husband and I finally spoke. He said he hasn’t processed this whole thing yet. He’s been wavering between anger and pain for three weeks since I told him. He says one minute he’s prepared to throw me out of the house and the next he’s determined to find a way to fix our marriage.
> 
> His main question was why? Why would I do this? He said he’s wracked his brain trying to figure out what brought us to this point. I told him about my feelings at the time. Which I know are terrible weak excuses for what I did. He said I should have talked to him instead of this. Anything but this.
> 
> He asked me questions that I never thought I’d have to answer because I never thought in my worst nightmare that I’d ever cheat. But I answered all of his questions honestly, knowing that some of the answers would case him pain but also knowing that to hide anything at this point would definitely kill my marriage.
> 
> I told him that I know it rings hollow but I do live him and I am ready to do whatever it takes to help him heal from what I did. He asked questions and information about the other guy. Which I gave him. Hoping to god he doesn’t do something dumb like go beat the guy up. He asked me if I really told the other guys fiancé and I said yes I messaged her.
> 
> Apparently my husband has done some digging of his own and knows who she is and is prepared to contact her himself. Somehow he’s got her phone number. I’m not sure how but he had a number he believes is hers and he’s going to call her. I haven’t heard back from her. What can I say but I understand he wants to make sure this guys fiancé knows what happened. He also said he wants to read anything I have that was texted between me and the guy. He wants to look through my phone, iPad and computer. Which I agreed to and gave him all my passwords.
> 
> He finally told me he’s not sure we can save our marriage or if he even wants to. He’s made it clear that he doesn’t think he will ever trust me again and may never trust anyone again. So he’s decided he’s going to see a therapist by himself to work all of this out. I asked about couples counseling and he said he’s not ready for that yet. He doesn’t even know if he ever will want to do that.
> 
> He also told me he’s been in contact with an attorney so he can know what his legal rights are if he decides to ask me for a divorce. He made it clear that there’s a very good chance that this is going to end up in a divorce and told me to be ready for that. He made it clear to me that he will fight me tooth and nail when it comes to his pension and 401k. I told him if it comes to that I won’t make any claim to any of his retirement benefits. I could do that to him after the damage I’ve already inflicted.
> 
> So he said that until after the holidays we’ll put on a brave face because he doesn’t want our problems to ruin either of our family’s Christmas. But after the new year he thinks the best thing for us is to separate while he figures out what it is he wants. He says it’s much too painful for him to be around me right now because it’s constant reminder of what I did. He said I can continue to sleep in the guest bedroom until I can find a place to live.
> 
> I agreed that I will move because as I mentioned in my first post he has owned this house since before we started dating. He’s put so much work into turning it into a beautiful home that I could never bring myself to fight him for the right to stay here. I told him I’m going to have to tell my family and friends what had happened once I move and he said he knew that. I told him I will be honest with them and make it clear that our separation is because of my affair and not something he did.
> 
> Again he made it clear that he’s not certain he even wants to try to save our marriage because he doesn’t know if he’ll ever trust me again. And that’s the worst thing because he told me he loves me even after what I did to him but the trust is gone. I understand why he feels this way and it’s something I will have to live with. He also said something that made me realize how rotten I’ve been. He said he isn’t going to use our separation as an excuse to see other women because he wouldn’t do that to me. He said his first instinct was to meet someone else and get revenge that way but he couldn’t bring himself to do it. I am powerless to even say anything about his because what could I say if he did that? I know he could easily find someone. My husband is a really good looking guy and I’ve become accustomed to other women looking at him and sometimes even trying to flirt with him when we’re out. He’d always smile and flash his wedding ring at them. Yeah, I realize now just how brutally I’ve treated him.
> 
> That’s my update for now. I may post again in the coming weeks if anything new develops but for now that’s about it.


Your husband seems like a very methodical type of person who reacts only after haven taken the time to think and plan. The good news for you is that he loves you or else you would have been shown the door with divorce papers in hand already.

Unfortunately, he hasn't made up his mind yet and effectively informed you that both R and D are on the table, depending on whether he can find it in him to live with you after this betrayal and that he is planning for both paths.

Your openness and transparency as of late counts hugely in your favor.

Your next steps would be continued self-improvement with the help of counselling, as well as preparation for both the R and D routes. If you want a hope at building a new relationship with your husband, be prepared to give him absolutely everything he needs without becoming quarrelsome or defensive.

I wish you both well.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

You could and should offer to sign a post nup. Your latest update tells me you have a fight on your hands if you hope to save things.


----------



## Trident

Well, from a legal perspective, it's not "his" pension and even though he owned the house prior to the marriage he can't kick you out, at least not without a hearing on the matter. 

Yes, you screwed up, but that doesn't mean you need to be out on the street without your rightful share of the marital assets. 

Cheating happens all the time- typically the woman steps out on the poor hardworking husband who oftentimes is booted from the marital home because cheating wife is the primary caregiver to the kids, and worse yet, the guy the wife cheated with moves in and essentially replaces dad in his former role as husband and father, and to add insult to injury he's writing support checks to his ex wife who spends it on vacations with boyfriend.

Now that's a worst case scenario, but it happens.

My point being that if thing goes south, you don't have to give everything up and live in a shelter or something of that nature.


----------



## Galabar01

I feel like you should have tried harder to contact the fiance. I think it would have shown your husband that you are serious about reconciling. Now, you could only say "I messaged her."

You need to do everything you can. You need to be proactive. You should have already (a) scheduled an STD test, (b) written a detailed timeline, and (c) scheduled a polygraph to confirm the timeline.


----------



## Beach123

He sounds like a very reasonable and thought filled guy.
Do your best to consider how HE must feel - in all your actions and words - moving forward.

Best wishes


----------



## Openminded

I know all of this is difficult for him to process, especially now. Yes, it’s definitely possible to love someone you’re divorcing and know you’ll never again trust them the way you once did because you can’t. Divorce, for me, was many times easier than reconciling and your husband may reach the same conclusion. If he does decide to try, it will take years of ups and downs and triggers to rebuild. It won’t be the old marriage — the two of you will have to create a new one. Reconciling is the hardest thing I’ve ever done but for some it does work. Time will tell if your husband gives you another chance. Many men wouldn’t so if he does I hope you appreciate it for the wonderful gift it is. I wish both of you the very best going forward.


----------



## oldshirt

Your husband is actually handling this like a boss. If he were the one writing in here for advice, I probably would have advised him to do much of what he is doing. 

But he is not the one seeking advice here, you are, so I will offer you this -

You have made your position and your wishes known. You have done the best you can do for the moment in regards to trying to save the marriage so ball is pretty much in his court now. 

Just beware that it may take him a long time and a lot more questions and then more soul searching before he comes up with a definitive plan to either reconcile vs divorce. He may go back and forth a number of times. And even if comes out and says that he does want to reconcile, he may put in good faith effort for a number of YEARS and then decide it's not working for him. Marathon no sprint. 

My advice to you at this point is #1: get a a lawyer of your own and start coming up with your own strategy and plan in case he does file. This my seem provocative and like an escalation, but you will need to protect yourself and your own assets and legal rights. Should push come to shove, your lawyer will advise you not to capitulate or waive any of your legal or financial rights or entitlements just because you cheated or because you feel guilty. For starters the court probably won't even let you walk away with nothing even if you offer to do so because just a matter of months you will be kicking yourself for not accepting what was your legal right and you will filing additional motions with the court and the court has an obligation to keep you out of court as much as possible. 

It's ok to try to be cooperative and fair, but do not capitulate or waive any rights out of feeling guilty. Otherwise a month or two after the settlement you will be kicking yourself in the butt and trying to play catch up. 

#2: Do not allow yourself to be abused or mistreated or exploited. You have a lot of guilt now and are laying it all out there to try to fix things. Nothing will be actually fixed if you allow yourself to be abused, mistreated or exploited. You have guilt and want to fix things now, but if you allow yourself to be kicked in the teeth one too many times, you will quickly grow resentful and bitter and strike back at some point which will just throw gas on the fire. He is hurt. He is angry. He is sad and scared and emasculated and probably does have some vengeance on his mind to one degree. But he still does not have the right to intentionally hurt, humiliate or exploit your guilty conscience. Be compassionate and respectful but don't be a punching bag. 

#3. and here is probably the biggest of all at the moment - DO NOT GET PREGNANT!! It's just a matter of days or week or two before you may go into a Hysterical Bonding phase where you may start going at it like rabbits. It's a primal instinctive thing. It's real and it happens even though you both may think it's the last thing on your minds at this moment. DO NOT GET PREGNANT. A part of you may think a baby will bring you two closer - IT WON'T. You may think he won't leave you if you have a child - he might and then you'll be a single mother with a baby and a history of adultery.... not a good combination for getting another decent man. 

He is also a threat because sometimes the BH will also try to knock up the WW to keep her dependent on him and to not leave him. People do very irrational and freaky things in times like these. Do not bring an extra layer of chaos, expense and drama into this.


----------



## Casual Observer

Galabar01 said:


> I feel like you should have tried harder to contact the fiance. I think it would have shown your husband that you are serious about reconciling. Now, you could only say "I messaged her."
> 
> You need to do everything you can. You need to be proactive. You should have already (a) scheduled an STD test, (b) written a detailed timeline, and (c) scheduled a polygraph to confirm the timeline.


She could even ask her husband for help contacting the OBS. A bit of self-deprecation might be in order. She could explain she’s painfully aware of her abilities to screw things up. She might need some help in other areas.

I like the idea of the polygraph offer. Fits into the husband’s need for something he can hang onto.


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## colingrant

Nice job with everything except the couples counseling suggestion. But, it's understandable considering you wish to fix the marriage, but before the marriage is fixed both you and your husband require therapy and fixing yourselves. Once achieved, then you reassess the marriage, but not before. 

His response is as if he's read about the necessary steps to how to respond following discovery. If this is the case, you may have earned some respect (not trust yet) as he would have also read how common wayward spouses act following discovery or confession and you are not following that script verbatim. You followed the script in getting into the affair but not ending it. 

Between confessing and being accountable for your actions, you are ahead of the game so to speak, but you're still in the 1st quarter of the football game with three to go. Just remember to not shift or take blame, tell the truth including with no omissions and read books on infidelity and how to help your spouse recover so that you can be proactive in healing yourself and your husband and then let the chips fall where they may. 

Personally, I think it is okay to show some form of desperation, but not as a substitute for more meaningful actions but as a sincere expression of love. It can't come from fear of being single or anything like that. It has to only come from wanting to be married to the man himself. Not the kids. Not for the home or community, etc. Just the man.


----------



## Beach123

If you haven’t yet, I would suggest you also start individual counseling.


----------



## Talker67

you seem to have checked off all the reconciliation boxes:
provided details and a timeline: check
provided passwords to all devices: check
no gaslighting on why or the details: check
sincere contrition: check

the ball is in his court, but with all of the positive steps you have taken already, i predict he will want to reconcile. 
reconciliation is not easy. there is more heavy lifting coming on your part. so stay the course.

for me, lying would be the ongoing dealbreaker. I might be able to forgive the affair, but continued lying by the AP would have signaled that she was not serious about reconciliation. So you have taken care of that one big impediment to reconciliation by providing the full truth.


----------



## blackclover3

your husband is very smart smart and gentlemen. I'm still not sure how would F that up. 
you still didn't answer my questions
have you done something physically with that guy that you haven't done with your husband?
and I still didnt get straight answer from you how and why this happened?


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

blackclover3 said:


> your husband is very smart smart and gentlemen. I'm still not sure how would F that up.
> you still didn't answer my questions
> have you done something physically with that guy that you haven't done with your husband?
> and I still didnt get straight answer from you how and why this happened?


I answered all my husbands questions. I don’t believe I owe you any answers though.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Trident said:


> Well, from a legal perspective, it's not "his" pension and even though he owned the house prior to the marriage he can't kick you out, at least not without a hearing on the matter.
> 
> Yes, you screwed up, but that doesn't mean you need to be out on the street without your rightful share of the marital assets.
> 
> Cheating happens all the time- typically the woman steps out on the poor hardworking husband who oftentimes is booted from the marital home because cheating wife is the primary caregiver to the kids, and worse yet, the guy the wife cheated with moves in and essentially replaces dad in his former role as husband and father, and to add insult to injury he's writing support checks to his ex wife who spends it on vacations with boyfriend.
> 
> Now that's a worst case scenario, but it happens.
> 
> My point being that if thing goes south, you don't have to give everything up and live in a shelter or something of that nature.


I won’t end up on the street. Financially I’ll be fine if we do end up divorced. I will not do anything to punish my husband if he decides to ask for a divorce. Yes, it is his pension and 401k. He worked all the years at his job. I have my own retirement and 401k. I’ll be fine moving forward. As for the house I couldn’t bring myself to try to force him to give up something he’s worked so hard on over the years.


----------



## Butforthegrace

You're brave for coming here and posting as you did. I sense real remorse from you. 

As others have said, the bitterness that infuses some of the posts by BH's on this thread, you might take guidance from it because the same feelings and ideas almost certainly occupy your BH's private thoughts. If your marriage has a chance of reconciling -- and it might -- it requires radical honesty from both you and your BH. You have taken the first baby steps toward radical honesty, but your BH likely has not. As men we are programmed to want to protect our wives. It's a brain-teaser when we find ourselves trying to protect our wives from ourselves, but that's what a lot of BH's do. You can be pretty certain he has not said to your face the worst things he is thinking about you in his mind. He's shielding you from it.

That said, some marriages do reconcile, but keep in mind that the affair and the AP will be a permanent plus one in the marriage. Is this a marriage that both you and your BH want, going forward? I believe you said you don't have kids. 

A specific question about the money issue. You mentioned it, but didn't say what it was about. Was it that one of the two of you was spending too much on frivolities, or was it simply that you weren't earning enough? I ask because there is a term -- financial infidelity -- that refers to a spouse who overspends on frivolous purchases. Was that an issue in your marriage pre-affair? If so, it's likely to become an issue again unless and until the over-spender gets some therapy and fixes what is broken there.

As to therapy, it's way too early for MC. Each of you should be seeking IC at this point.


----------



## Gabriel

Solid update and it all tracks and makes sense. Your H is conflicted, understandably. Contrary to others here I don't think he will reconcile. I think he is heavily leaning toward divorce but leaving the door open a little bit. 

Typically the anger gets worse from this point before it gets better, as he has to start facing the reality of changing his life and many of his relationships. He'll realize this uprooting and inconvenience and pain is entirely your fault and this will increase his anger toward you. He will also realize that it's humiliating to have other people know that his wife did this to him. It's emasculating and a huge damage to his pride. He will again, blame that on you.

It does seem that he's at least gotten to a point where he can speak to you. He didn't immediately throw you out, which shows he's not quite ready to call it quits just yet. Your attitude is likely helping - you aren't making excuses or getting defensive - you've put down your hands and said hit me with whatever you have, I deserve it. And that can be disarming.

If you want to try to save this, I think you continue to be humble and subservient, but also express that you want to save it if he'll let you.

Also, 100% agree that marriage counseling is not appropriate at this time. You guys should seek individual therapy first, and then only seek marital counseling if you decide to try to make something work.


----------



## ConanHub

Casual Observer said:


> is that all you got out of my post? Primarily you focus on why it’s ok to defend yourself against jerks? That’s not a part of your brain you should allow to be engaged right now. Blocking is fine but when you try to justify it (swearing at a nasty person here) on TAM, it feels like you’re ability to rationalize will be your marriages undoing.


I'm going to disagree. Vitriol is sometimes ok with solid advice. No one has the right to just take their anger out on someone here.

The OP is remorseful and had a limited affair, felt terrible and stopped quickly and figured out she had to confess. She has asked for advice and is listening but is under no obligation to put up with someone being an ass hole to her for no reason. That really wouldn't be healthy.


----------



## ConanHub

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Well. My husband and I finally spoke. He said he hasn’t processed this whole thing yet. He’s been wavering between anger and pain for three weeks since I told him. He says one minute he’s prepared to throw me out of the house and the next he’s determined to find a way to fix our marriage.
> 
> His main question was why? Why would I do this? He said he’s wracked his brain trying to figure out what brought us to this point. I told him about my feelings at the time. Which I know are terrible weak excuses for what I did. He said I should have talked to him instead of this. Anything but this.
> 
> He asked me questions that I never thought I’d have to answer because I never thought in my worst nightmare that I’d ever cheat. But I answered all of his questions honestly, knowing that some of the answers would case him pain but also knowing that to hide anything at this point would definitely kill my marriage.
> 
> I told him that I know it rings hollow but I do live him and I am ready to do whatever it takes to help him heal from what I did. He asked questions and information about the other guy. Which I gave him. Hoping to god he doesn’t do something dumb like go beat the guy up. He asked me if I really told the other guys fiancé and I said yes I messaged her.
> 
> Apparently my husband has done some digging of his own and knows who she is and is prepared to contact her himself. Somehow he’s got her phone number. I’m not sure how but he had a number he believes is hers and he’s going to call her. I haven’t heard back from her. What can I say but I understand he wants to make sure this guys fiancé knows what happened. He also said he wants to read anything I have that was texted between me and the guy. He wants to look through my phone, iPad and computer. Which I agreed to and gave him all my passwords.
> 
> He finally told me he’s not sure we can save our marriage or if he even wants to. He’s made it clear that he doesn’t think he will ever trust me again and may never trust anyone again. So he’s decided he’s going to see a therapist by himself to work all of this out. I asked about couples counseling and he said he’s not ready for that yet. He doesn’t even know if he ever will want to do that.
> 
> He also told me he’s been in contact with an attorney so he can know what his legal rights are if he decides to ask me for a divorce. He made it clear that there’s a very good chance that this is going to end up in a divorce and told me to be ready for that. He made it clear to me that he will fight me tooth and nail when it comes to his pension and 401k. I told him if it comes to that I won’t make any claim to any of his retirement benefits. I could do that to him after the damage I’ve already inflicted.
> 
> So he said that until after the holidays we’ll put on a brave face because he doesn’t want our problems to ruin either of our family’s Christmas. But after the new year he thinks the best thing for us is to separate while he figures out what it is he wants. He says it’s much too painful for him to be around me right now because it’s constant reminder of what I did. He said I can continue to sleep in the guest bedroom until I can find a place to live.
> 
> I agreed that I will move because as I mentioned in my first post he has owned this house since before we started dating. He’s put so much work into turning it into a beautiful home that I could never bring myself to fight him for the right to stay here. I told him I’m going to have to tell my family and friends what had happened once I move and he said he knew that. I told him I will be honest with them and make it clear that our separation is because of my affair and not something he did.
> 
> Again he made it clear that he’s not certain he even wants to try to save our marriage because he doesn’t know if he’ll ever trust me again. And that’s the worst thing because he told me he loves me even after what I did to him but the trust is gone. I understand why he feels this way and it’s something I will have to live with. He also said something that made me realize how rotten I’ve been. He said he isn’t going to use our separation as an excuse to see other women because he wouldn’t do that to me. He said his first instinct was to meet someone else and get revenge that way but he couldn’t bring himself to do it. I am powerless to even say anything about his because what could I say if he did that? I know he could easily find someone. My husband is a really good looking guy and I’ve become accustomed to other women looking at him and sometimes even trying to flirt with him when we’re out. He’d always smile and flash his wedding ring at them. Yeah, I realize now just how brutally I’ve treated him.
> 
> That’s my update for now. I may post again in the coming weeks if anything new develops but for now that’s about it.


WOW! I gotta say I believe you have handled this very well. Your infidelity was terrible of course but you are really showing remorse and responsibility.

I'm impressed.

Everyone has done something they regret. Good people make corrections and don't do it again.
Bad people don't reflect or correct and keep doing harm.

I think you're going to turn out all right.


----------



## Evinrude58

Trident said:


> Well, from a legal perspective, it's not "his" pension and even though he owned the house prior to the marriage he can't kick you out, at least not without a hearing on the matter.
> 
> Yes, you screwed up, but that doesn't mean you need to be out on the street without your rightful share of the marital assets.
> 
> Cheating happens all the time- typically the woman steps out on the poor hardworking husband who oftentimes is booted from the marital home because cheating wife is the primary caregiver to the kids, and worse yet, the guy the wife cheated with moves in and essentially replaces dad in his former role as husband and father, and to add insult to injury he's writing support checks to his ex wife who spends it on vacations with boyfriend.
> 
> Now that's a worst case scenario, but it happens.
> 
> My point being that if thing goes south, you don't have to give everything up and live in





Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I won’t end up on the street. Financially I’ll be fine if we do end up divorced. I will not do anything to punish my husband if he decides to ask for a divorce. Yes, it is his pension and 401k. He worked all the years at his job. I have my own retirement and 401k. I’ll be fine moving forward. As for the house I couldn’t bring myself to try to force him to give up something he’s worked so hard on over the years.


This is not the mindset of a disgusting cheater. If he divorces you and you treat him as you say you will (minds change when it gets die to the nut cuttin’), there’s a possibility after his anger and pain subsides that he’d give you another chance. A man is different from a woman in some ways. And in all honesty I’m y will take years and years to get over you. The angrier he is, the more he cared about you. If he wasn’t incredibly angry, he’s a wuss or he didn’t love you much. I agree with Oldshirt— he’s handling this as a man should. 
you messed up for sure. Sounds like you had a good dude. You’ll have a hard time finding one that loves you like he did. Not impossible, not easy either.

fir what it’s worth, you do sound remorseful. Doesn’t make the pull any easier for him to swallow


----------



## DallasCowboyFan

I am proud of the way you have handled this. I think you are truly remorseful and I hope he gives you another chance. If you do move out, I think things will be over, but I don't think you have a choice if that is what he asks you to do.


----------



## ABHale

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I came here for help and advice. Not to be berated by strangers. If I wanted bitter men to trash me I would have posted this on Reddit.


You can ignore those that are just trashing you.

Click on their name. The three dots top right. Click ignore.


----------



## gr8ful1

oldshirt said:


> He is also a threat because sometimes the BH will also try to knock up the WW to keep her dependent on him and to not leave him


Damn. This BH is a *threat*? Clearly the implication here. The WW throws him under the bus but HE is the threat. Got it.


----------



## oldshirt

gr8ful1 said:


> Damn. This BH is a *threat*? Clearly the implication here. The WW throws him under the bus but HE is the threat. Got it.


It happens.


----------



## Casual Observer

gr8ful1 said:


> Damn. This BH is a *threat*? Clearly the implication here. The WW throws him under the bus but HE is the threat. Got it.


Within a very narrow context, yes. It’s something she needs to be aware of, a possibility that he might need to mark his territory in a way no other man has.

And yes, it’s ok that she does have some boundaries. Like I said earlier, there are opportunities for the wayward spouse to take leadership (when it’s lacking) and not steer but make sure betrayed spouse is getting the help he or she needs. Putting their individual counseling ahead of the marriage would be the best example I can think of. Basically making sure the betrayed spouse’s needs always come first.

In the event betrayed spouse vocalizes the belief that his wife should become pregnant, that is not a wish to grant without discussion.Again, boundaries come into play, even if you believe the betraying spouse deserves, well, nothing.

@Lost_And_Wandering clearly shows remorse and is desiring that the marriage doesn’t end. She’s willing to do what needs to be done. But bringing a new life into the world to try and fix things? Maybe that works in Hallmark movies, but what if it ends up that child is seen as a reminder of what had gone on in the past?

#1 thing is for the husband to get individual counseling on his own. And maybe, after that, visit one of the divorce specialists (therapist, not lawyer) who help you put in real terms the pros and cons of staying married or not.


----------



## Trident

oldshirt said:


> He is also a threat because sometimes the BH will also try to knock up the WW to keep her dependent on him and to not leave him. People do very irrational and freaky things in times like these.


I missed this part of your long detailed post until it was quoted by someone else.

The BH is responding with calmness and composure. Do some betrayed spouses, especially men, go ballistic and do crazy things like murder their cheating partners or shoot up a local shopping mall? Sure, but they don't respond the way the husband did initially.

To suggest he's a threat is over the top and to say he's a threat _because some guys impregnate their cheating wives to keep them around_ is just ridiculous.


----------



## Trident

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I answered all my husbands questions. I don’t believe I owe you any answers though.


Zing!


----------



## oldshirt

Trident said:


> I missed this part of your long detailed post until it was quoted by someone else.
> 
> The BH is responding with calmness and composure. Do some betrayed spouses, especially men, go ballistic and do crazy things like murder their cheating partners or shoot up a local shopping mall? Sure, but they don't respond the way the husband did initially.
> 
> To suggest he's a threat is over the top and to say he's a threat _because some guys impregnate their cheating wives to keep them around_ is just ridiculous.


It happens.

People can do some pretty crazy stuff under times of stress and uncertainty like this. 

I’m just advising the OP to be alert and take care of herself.


----------



## oldshirt

Trident said:


> Do some betrayed spouses, especially men, go ballistic and do crazy things like murder their cheating partners or shoot up a local shopping mall? Sure, but they don't respond the way the husband did initially.


How do you know how they all responded initially?


----------



## Davit Bek

oldshirt said:


> It happens.
> 
> People can do some pretty crazy stuff under times of stress and uncertainty like this.
> 
> I’m just advising the OP to be alert and take care of herself.


Loll he hasn't demonstrated any threatening behavior. OP said so herself. He has acted like a gentleman. Albeit a very hurt and angry one. OP doesn't need you to look out for her. She is doing a great job at that judging by her righteously calling out those who take their bitterness out on her. 

You also replied that she shouldn't put up with abuse. While that's self-evident, it should be understood that she has more than earned herself the scorn and anger of her husband, and that shouldn't be conflated with abuse. She'll decide how much she is willing to tolerate and still fight for her marriage. Stop this white knight BS.


----------



## Trident

oldshirt said:


> How do you know how they all responded initially?


The ones that don't respond the way the Op's husband did make the news occasionally.


----------



## Davit Bek

.


----------



## oldshirt

Davit Bek said:


> Loll he hasn't demonstrated any threatening behavior. OP said so herself. He has acted like a gentleman. Albeit a very hurt and angry one. OP doesn't need you to look out for her. She is doing a great job at that judging by her righteously calling out those who take their bitterness out on her.
> 
> You also replied that she shouldn't put up with abuse. While that's self-evident, it should be understood that she has more than earned herself the scorn and anger of her husband, and that shouldn't be conflated with abuse. She'll decide how much she is willing to tolerate and still fight for her marriage. Stop this white knight BS.


Advising someone to not allow themselves to be mistreated, exploited or bring a child into a very unstable and chaotic situation is being a White Knight??? 

I would hope everyone would advise such things and I’m quite surprised at how negatively some people have responded to some very simple and sage advice. 

OK I get it - a lot of people want her to pay. A good percentage of the people on this forum are BS’s. 

If he were the one writing here, I would advise him not to knock her up as well... wouldn’t you???

That’s sage advice for both of them. Don’t bring a child into this situation - that should not be a controversial concept or a newsflash. 

But in this case, she is the one looking for advice. That is my advice. She can take it or leave it, just like anyone else. 

That is my advice whether others approve of it or not.


----------



## oldshirt

Davit Bek said:


> Loll he hasn't demonstrated any threatening behavior. OP said so herself. He has acted like a gentleman.


It doesn’t matter if he’s buying her fruit baskets and giving her baby oil foot rubs right now, this is going to play out over many months if not years. 

Do you think only the first few days of an event like this counts? Do you think everyone’s behavior on DDAY will remain static and unchanged over months and months or years of dialogue, conflict, soul-searching, counseling, property division, families getting involved, blame games etc etc.

C’mon people, you’re better than this, don’t be naive. Look at the realities of the world for one minute. 

This is just the opening act of a very long, bumpy road. Anything can happen in the upcoming months or even years. 

Either of them can pop a cog at some point. 

They each need to watch their backs and take care of themselves and be prepared to advocate for their own best interest and well being.


----------



## Trident

oldshirt said:


> Do you think only the first few days of an event like this counts? Do you think everyone’s behavior on DDAY will remain static and unchanged over months and months or years of dialogue, conflict, soul-searching, counseling, property division, families getting involved, blame games etc etc.
> 
> C’mon people, you’re better than this, don’t be naive.


I guess you better call me naive then because I figure if the guy hasn't gone ballistic and done something crazy within the first few days of finding out about his wife's transgression, and has reacted in an overtly calm and cool manner, that he's not going to suddenly "pop a cog" and go nuts about it at some future time. Especially given her posts about how she plans to be more than fair to him should he request a divorce.

But clearly I'm not as well educated and sophisticated as you are so my post doesn't count for much.


----------



## oldshirt

Trident said:


> I guess you better call me naive then because I figure if the guy hasn't gone ballistic and done something crazy within the first few days of finding out about his wife's transgression, and has reacted in an overtly calm and cool manner, that he's not going to suddenly "pop a cog" and go nuts about it at some future time. Especially given her posts about how she plans to be more than fair to him should he request a divorce.
> 
> But clearly I'm not as well educated and sophisticated as you are so my post doesn't count for much.


I’m not predicting either one will or will not go off the rails. 

I’m saying it does happen in the world and it can happen months or even years down the road. 

To say that someone won’t do something abusive or exploitive at any point because they did not do it in the opening days, is not just naive but short sighted. 

Whether they ultimately reconcile and live happily ever after or whether they ultimately divorce, this is only the beginning. Things can change at any time. 

Thinknof it this way, In the beginning of their marriage, she was probably a faithful and doting wife and he probably never thought she’d ever get down with some other dude - - yet here we are.


----------



## ConanHub

I often contemplate getting a cheater pregnant....

Psycho!😋


----------



## Trident

oldshirt said:


> Thinknof it this way, In the beginning of their marriage, she was probably a faithful and doting wife and he probably never thought she’d ever get down with some other dude - - yet here we are.


What does that have to do with anything?


----------



## oldshirt

Trident said:


> What does that have to do with anything?


 that people do not always live up to initial expectations when the going gets rough.


----------



## GusPolinski

Nope, at least not unless your husband is onboard.

Doesn’t sound like he is.


----------



## Casual Observer

Trident said:


> What does that have to do with anything?


Im guessing the point is that you don’t expect what you don’t expect. That based on the past, no reason to believe she’d step out. Based on husband’s past… well, who knows, we only have one side.

But I do believe that some of the greatest unpredictability may come from the most stable and patient of spouses. They reach a point where they crack. They have no experience letting off steam because they’ve never been tested this way, they always kept their emotions under the radar.


----------



## oldshirt

Casual Observer said:


> Im guessing the point is that you don’t expect what you don’t expect. That based on the past, no reason to believe she’d step out. Based on husband’s past… well, who knows, we only have one side.
> 
> But I do believe that some of the greatest unpredictability may come from the most stable and patient of spouses. They reach a point where they crack. They have no experience letting off steam because they’ve never been tested this way, they always kept their emotions under the radar.


Yes


----------



## Trident

To summarize the last dozen or so posts, if to be taken at their face value, should reconciliation take place, the Op should be alert and wary of her betrayed husband over the next few years despite his outward calmness and apparent stability, because he could suddenly buckle and crack under the pressure, snap and throw a cog off his wheel and try to forcibly impregnate her.


----------



## Casual Observer

Trident said:


> To summarize the last dozen or so posts, if to be taken at their face value, should reconciliation take place, the Op should be alert and wary of her betrayed husband over the next few years despite his outward calmness and apparent stability, because he could suddenly buckle and crack under the pressure, snap and throw a cog off his wheel and try to forcibly impregnate her.


He * could* do a lot of things. Raping his wife is not among them, nor was it discussed. Persuasion maybe. Vulnerable to hysterical bonding and blinded to reason, a possibility.


----------



## gaius

I get the sense you chose to marry this guy because he provides and treats you well. Not because you're that sexually attracted to him. And how could you be? He finds out you let some other guy bonk you and what does he do? Sits in his basement and calls you names. Doesn't throw you out, doesn't threaten to kill the other guy. Very indecisive and weak man. 

I would honestly just get rid of him. It's hard enough being with a guy like that without the cloud of an affair hanging over things. That's why you took the first excuse to cheat. But now it's going to be even worse.


----------



## oldshirt

Trident said:


> To summarize the last dozen or so posts, if to be taken at their face value, should reconciliation take place, the Op should be alert and wary of her betrayed husband over the next few years despite his outward calmness and apparent stability, because he could suddenly buckle and crack under the pressure, snap and throw a cog off his wheel and try to forcibly impregnate her.


I know this is a triggering and upsetting thread for a number of people and realize the OP is not going to be many people’s top pick for Wife Of The Year. 

But I don’t understand your position here. 

Are you saying those things don’t happen?? Despite your sarcasm in your earlier post, you aren’t that dumb or naive. Anyone that has ever read a newspaper or watched the 6 o’clock news knows that bad things can happen in these situations, so I don’t believe you are actually denying the risks.

So does that mean your position is that it is ok for the OP to be mistreated or exploited or that it is ok to bring a child in to this situation that can be highly unstable and contentious?

Just what is it you are trying to convey here? 

Yes her H is rightfully hurt and angry. No one is denying that. 

But if they are to reconcile and go on to have any chance for a happy and healthy marriage, they are going to have to WANT to be together and enjoy each other’s company and benefit from remaining together.

Right now she is running on guilt, shame and contrition. But that will only be temporary. She’s begging for forgiveness and claiming she’ll do “anything “ now. But how long is that going to last? At some point, in order to remain together, she’ll have to actually like him and want to be with him. Will she be able to do that if he is mistreating her or taking advantage of her current guilt and shame?

And the applies if they divorce. She eating humble pie now and saying she’ll divorce cooperatively and make concessions. 

But how long will she abide by those words if he is mistreating her or capitalizing on her guilt for his own gain?

At what point will the gloves come off???

Whether they reconcile or whether they divorce, it is in both of their better interests to remain civil and play fair. 

They both need to have their own boundaries and not allow themselves to be mistreated, abused or exploited. 

And for the love of all that’s holy, the worst thing they can do is let some hysterical bonding get out of hand and bring a child into this. 

I know this whole situation is hitting a lot of raw nerves and triggering some people. 

But we can do better and try to see the bigger picture and see beyond our own triggers and sensitivities.

I haven’t said anything to her that I haven’t said to countless BS’s. 

-get a lawyer.

stand up for your legal and financial rights.
don’t allow anyone to abuse, mistreat, manipulate or take advantage of you.
-don’t bring any innocent children into the chaos. 

That applies to both BS and WS.


----------



## oldshirt

gaius said:


> He finds out you let some other guy bonk you and what does he do? Sits in his basement and calls you names. Doesn't throw you out, doesn't threaten to kill the other guy. Very indecisive and weak man.


No.

He has actually handled it well thus far and has shown discipline and mindfulness so far as opposed to flying off the handle and either going into a rage or begging her stay and rugsweep. 

This is still a work in progress with much remaining to be seen.

But he hasn’t been weak and indecisive.

He has been disciplined in searching for facts and weighing options and conserving various scenarios and plans.


----------



## Evinrude58

gaius said:


> I get the sense you chose to marry this guy because he provides and treats you well. Not because you're that sexually attracted to him. And how could you be? He finds out you let some other guy bonk you and what does he do? Sits in his basement and calls you names. Doesn't throw you out, doesn't threaten to kill the other guy. Very indecisive and weak man.
> 
> I would honestly just get rid of him. It's hard enough being with a guy like that without the cloud of an affair hanging over things. That's why you took the first excuse to cheat. But now it's going to be even worse.


I disagree. Maybe you’re such a badass you turned on a dime and dropped your Cheater first second you found out. But for most, it takes a while for most guys to grasp losing their wife, their kids, their future plans, their financial security, retirements, etc. 
Thus guy isn’t begging her back, nor groveling, nor playing the pick me dance. I’d say he is doing well. Far better than the vast majority.


----------



## Davit Bek

oldshirt said:


> Advising someone to not allow themselves to be mistreated, exploited or bring a child into a very unstable and chaotic situation is being a White Knight???
> 
> But in this case, she is the one looking for advice. That is my advice. She can take it or leave it, just like anyone else.
> 
> That is my advice whether others approve of it or not.


Yes it is being a White Knight. As if your statement about not allowing herself to be exploited would give her the epiphany of a ground breaking idea.

In the same post you're advising her to hire a lawyer and come up with a strategy to make sure she can take all the financial resources that are legally hers. As if men don't already suffer from some of the terrible family laws in this country. This is despite the fact that she mentioned she wants him to be treated fairly, and can't get herself to take a something from him that belongs only to him. She has a career, no children, and is financially independent. And thankfully, she knows better than to twist the knife that she's stabbed him with, figuratively.

You're right, you have the right to dispense whatever advice you want, and others have the right to call BS on it. And I'm happy to be among those who did.


----------



## Diana7

gaius said:


> I get the sense you chose to marry this guy because he provides and treats you well. Not because you're that sexually attracted to him. And how could you be? He finds out you let some other guy bonk you and what does he do? Sits in his basement and calls you names. Doesn't throw you out, doesn't threaten to kill the other guy. Very indecisive and weak man.
> 
> I would honestly just get rid of him. It's hard enough being with a guy like that without the cloud of an affair hanging over things. That's why you took the first excuse to cheat. But now it's going to be even worse.


Some people spend time thinking and reflecting before making a decision. Not everyone blows up and acts like that. It's down to personality and character.


----------



## Galabar01

Davit Bek said:


> ...
> 
> You're right, you have the right to dispense whatever advice you want, and others have the right to call BS on it. And I'm happy to be among those who did.


Yes and Yes.


----------



## Casual Observer

Diana7 said:


> Some people spend time thinking and reflecting before making a decision. Not everyone blows up and acts like that. It's down to personality and character.


Most of us are never tested to that degree though. Most of us are better off not knowing how we’d fare under such circumstances. It’s easy to say we’d do the right thing when we’re not emotionally attached in real time.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I answered all my husbands questions. I don’t believe I owe you any answers though.


Just trying to let you know that if you did, that will be another issue with your husband.
Sometimes a woman will not preform oral sex on hubby but gladly does to AP. Or has refused anal sex with hubby or just stated they dont do those things, but offer it up for an AP. Just so you understand the hubby will see all that as just another way you said the AP was better and more desirable than hubby.


----------



## Divinely Favored

oldshirt said:


> How do you know how they all responded initially?


Exactly. Murder may not be the correct term. Murder is killing of the innocent. Killing a spouse after finding out with the rage and being distraught they may not be in their right minds(temporary insanity). Voluntary manslaughter? Perhaps.....but murder...meh!

It would be like catching a guy that just raped your wife or daughter....murder?....that would be tough conviction for 12 jurors.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Trident said:


> To summarize the last dozen or so posts, if to be taken at their face value, should reconciliation take place, the Op should be alert and wary of her betrayed husband over the next few years despite his outward calmness and apparent stability, because he could suddenly buckle and crack under the pressure, snap and throw a cog off his wheel and try to forcibly impregnate her.


Definately applies to the type of women who feeds from drama. Those women who do not cope or feel right if their SO is not fighting with her all the time. Occasionally hear about a woman that leaves hubby because he will not fight. I guess those types need an abusive guy to feel loved. 
If anyone needs to be wary...it is hubby being wary she will do it again.


----------



## Talker67

Divinely Favored said:


> Just trying to let you know that if you did, that will be another issue with your husband.
> Sometimes a woman will not preform oral sex on hubby but gladly does to AP. Or has refused anal sex with hubby or just stated they dont do those things, but offer it up for an AP. Just so you understand the hubby will see all that as just another way you said the AP was better and more desirable than hubby.


this is 100% true, at least in the betrayed husband's mind. If he was denied sex acts that she gladly gave to another man, the marriage is OVER. he can never un-learn that level of conniving from his wife.


----------



## oldshirt

Davit Bek said:


> Yes it is being a White Knight. As if your statement about not allowing herself to be exploited would give her the epiphany of a ground breaking idea.
> 
> In the same post you're advising her to hire a lawyer and come up with a strategy to make sure she can take all the financial resources that are legally hers. As if men don't already suffer from some of the terrible family laws in this country. This is despite the fact that she mentioned she wants him to be treated fairly, and can't get herself to take a something from him that belongs only to him. She has a career, no children, and is financially independent. And thankfully, she knows better than to twist the knife that she's stabbed him with, figuratively.
> 
> You're right, you have the right to dispense whatever advice you want, and others have the right to call BS on it. And I'm happy to be among those who did.


I never said anything about twisting knives. 

I said obtain legal council and not allow herself to be taking advantage of due to her sense of guilt. 

I know you and others want her to pay and want her to walk away with nothing, I get it. 

But the reality is her sense of guilt and contrition is temporary.

If she walks away with nothing in the initial divorce, she will just be right back filing additional motions in a matter of months when the guilt wears off.

The lawyers and judges all know this and that is why equitable distribution laws are on the books in the first place. 

Yes it is a shtty deal for the BH and may be unfair in the cosmic sense. 

But in the long run there is less chaos and drama and less lasting resentment and bitterness and baggage if people just split it up down the middle and walk away for good, than to keep coming back months and even years later with further court actions because they don’t think they got their equitable share in the first place. 

And yes, she has a job, no kids, probably not a whole lot of assets, so keep it fair and cooperative and equitable from the beginning and each walk away and start their new lives in peace.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator warning:- No more threadjacks.*


----------



## Taxman

L&W, you just make me incredibly sad. You have joined the legions of people who wrecked good relationships out of ennui and boredom. The sad part is that you probably will never understand how it got to this place. It was "just something you fell into". The AP was nothing special. However, you see the value in what you have thrown away. Here is the real sad part. You will see him with someone else. You will see him lavish on her that which you felt was less than you deserved. You will see him with new family, and feel regret, and bitterness at what you have wrought. Boy do I know this one. I have had multitudinous office visits, women and men crying their eyes out, as the one thing in their lives that had some meaning is now lost to them and has moved on, many times with someone much better in every way. Had a woman last year who just could not beleive her exH moved on. Not only moved on, but was now with a very nice woman who was bearing his child. His ex said bitterly, that if she knew that was going to bind him to a partner, she would have allowed herself to get "knocked up". She is crying that now he is with that *****, who never slept around on any guy she has been with, and is sweet little mommy. How the **** can I compete with that. I told her in no uncertain terms that he is now lost to her, has a family with this other woman, and warned her to not ever insinuate herself into her ex's new marriage. This was so damn avoidable. Maybe this is why I am no longer taking divorce cases.

PS-6 year relationship, 3 years married. It will likely be quick and painless, depending on jurisdiction. You will both do yourself favors if you engage legal representation. The fights over money? Fueled the infidelity, ultimately injured the marriage permanently.


----------



## Marc878

From what you’ve posted you’ve done it right under the circumstances. Will it be enough? Hard to say. Some just can’t get over it.

I’ll second getting some IC for yourself. It would probably be good either way *IF* you could find a decent on. That is a big if.


----------



## Evinrude58

The help you need:
Figure out why you cheated, correct that in yourself. 
figure out why you stopped caring about your husband. Why do you love him NOW…. He hasn’t changed. You didn’t love him while you were chasing another man’s ****.
Why did you really stop? Was it not that great? If he was x, y, z, would you have continued with him and left your husband for him?

you’re doing everything else right.
The above needs to be addressed, with you and him………. Even if he takes you back, if you can’t figure out why now he’s the man for you, but wasn’t during your affair—— it will happen again. At least in your heart.


----------



## QuietRiot

> I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good.


This is the part that stands out to me about OPs story. Every cheating story we hear (or experience) is how the WS is so unhappy, didn’t get enough attention, didn’t feel loved enough so they have an affair… Yet by changing themselves into the type of person that elicits these reactions from their spouse, they get what they’ve wanted all along. 

How sad is it that cheaters throw away a perfectly good marriage and a perfectly good spouse because they can’t understand this concept until after they obliterate their family? All they had to do was change themselves and how they saw their spouse and the entire dynamic is changed. 

I hope just one person who is thinking of having an affair will come across this thread and actually try being “the best spouse” FIRST instead of after they betray someone. It may get them everything they want from a marriage.


----------



## Talker67

QuietRiot said:


> This is the part that stands out to me about OPs story. Every cheating story we hear (or experience) is how the WS is so unhappy, didn’t get enough attention, didn’t feel loved enough so they have an affair… Yet by changing themselves into the type of person that elicits these reactions from their spouse, they get what they’ve wanted all along.
> 
> How sad is it that cheaters throw away a perfectly good marriage and a perfectly good spouse because they can’t understand this concept until after they obliterate their family? All they had to do was change themselves and how they saw their spouse and the entire dynamic is changed.
> 
> I hope just one person who is thinking of having an affair will come across this thread and actually try being “the best spouse” FIRST instead of after they betray someone. It may get them everything they want from a marriage.


sexual attraction is a very powerful thing, and it is not surprising (although still wrong) that people cheat for sex.

but your point is entirely valid....they go looking for the wild monkey sex outside the marriage without even lifting a finger to get things kinkier and more passionate INSIDE of the marriage. How hard is it to say to you hubby "i always wanted to try anal sex, dear"? Or the hubby saying to his wife "can you tie me up and have sex with me", or whatever kinky thing floats your boat.

its almost like they are too embarrassed to ask a spouse for the sex they want, but will instead go find a total stranger and ask him for watersports, or something. makes no logical sense at all.

Jeez, if you are fantasizing about some dark kinky sex act, ASK YOUR SPOUSE to do it. what's the worst that can happen, they say no?


----------



## Arkansas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Is there anything I can do to save us?


from a man who had his world destroyed by a cheating wife .... no, you cannot

you had the full 100% faith and trust of a man and you had every way in the world to save it and keep it and you didn't

if your husband is like me, he will NEVER forget it - years later and every single day it haunts me multiple times .... the pain and damages you did are a lifetime


----------



## Diana7

Arkansas said:


> from a man who had his world destroyed by a cheating wife .... no, you cannot
> 
> you had the full 100% faith and trust of a man and you had every way in the world to save it and keep it and you didn't
> 
> if your husband is like me, he will NEVER forget it - years later and every single day it haunts me multiple times .... the pain and damages you did are a lifetime


Please please try and forgive and let it go. She caused you much hurt, but don't allow what she did to ruin the rest of your life. 
I know a lady whose father sexually abused her as a child for years. She said to me that he may have ruined her childhood but she wasn't going to let him ruin the rest of her life. She hasn't. She forgave and moved on.


----------



## Arkansas

Diana7 said:


> Please please try and forgive and let it go. She caused you much hurt, but don't allow what she did to ruin the rest of your life.


some things last a lifetime - betrayal, broken vows, broken trust, its exceptionally damaging 

there is a reason the Bible says not to do it

we all know the words and the advice of getting over and moving on from things ... doing them are totally different


----------



## ConanHub

QuietRiot said:


> This is the part that stands out to me about OPs story. Every cheating story we hear (or experience) is how the WS is so unhappy, didn’t get enough attention, didn’t feel loved enough so they have an affair… Yet by changing themselves into the type of person that elicits these reactions from their spouse, they get what they’ve wanted all along.
> 
> How sad is it that cheaters throw away a perfectly good marriage and a perfectly good spouse because they can’t understand this concept until after they obliterate their family? All they had to do was change themselves and how they saw their spouse and the entire dynamic is changed.
> 
> I hope just one person who is thinking of having an affair will come across this thread and actually try being “the best spouse” FIRST instead of after they betray someone. It may get them everything they want from a marriage.


Well. 👍


----------



## Diana7

Yes bu


Arkansas said:


> some things last a lifetime - betrayal, broken vows, broken trust, its exceptionally damaging
> 
> there is a reason the Bible says not to do it
> 
> we all know the words and the advice of getting over and moving on from things ... doing them are totally different


There is also a reason the Bible says to forgive. 
I know from personal experience it's entirety possible to do. 
It's a decision though, but why are you letting her have so much space in your mind? Why are you allowing her to ruin the rest of your life?


----------



## Jeffsmith35

This was powerful to read and should be an example to everyone of why infidelity should NEVER, EVER be considered an option. Marriage is a bond sealed by vows for a reason, and once those vows are broken the marriage is damaged beyond repair. Get divorced FIRST if you ever consider cheating.


----------



## Jeffsmith35

Infidelity breaks up the friendship between spouses, turning them into adversaries. And sometimes losing what you assumed was a lifetime friend due to betrayal is the worst part.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Arkansas said:


> some things last a lifetime - betrayal, broken vows, broken trust, its exceptionally damaging
> 
> there is a reason the Bible says not to do it
> 
> we all know the words and the advice of getting over and moving on from things ... doing them are totally different


You find a good woman and in time, she will help you forget that skank you were married to. 
My wife left on the 2nd one she caught her 1st hubby with. He was a musician and with far more than 2. She met me and it yook a few years for me to break down her walls and get her to trust 

Now she says she never knew what love truely was meant to be until me. She also says she would go through all the betrayal and heart brake again if it meant getting to me. It can be soo much better.


----------



## Joseph22

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Hello. I am a 30 year old woman. My husband is 33. We’ve been together for six years and married for three. Last year I made the single worst mistake of my life and had an affair with a male coworker. I have no excuse for what I did. It was wrong, selfish and self destructive. At the time I had excuses but I now realize that that is exactly what the were. Excuses.
> 
> My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.
> 
> I made the horribly selfish decision to seek comfort from a male coworker who had in the past made it clear to me that he was attracted to me. I’d always shut it down quickly before but at last year’s company Christmas party I was weak and I accepted his advances. We kissed after the party and began to text secretly to plan a tryst.
> 
> This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this. But I went ahead anyway. It was exciting and he paid attention to me and flattered me and I was a weak and foolish person and played along.
> 
> Then we met at a hotel and had sex. I almost immediately regretted my decision. I felt dirty and cheap laying there in that hotel bed while my husband was off at work none the wiser. I actually started to cry right there and my coworker only worried that I’d tell my husband and he’d get beaten up or that his fiancé would find out.
> 
> After this happened I immediately rededicated myself to being a good wife. I opened up to my husband about my feelings of neglect. He apologized for making me feel that way. He was so open to us working things out it made me realize how poorly I’d treated him. I was wracked with guilt over what I’d done.
> 
> I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good. But I’ve been stressed nonetheless. I’ve been suffering from guilt and remorse. Every time my husband would g out of his way to do something thoughtful or sweet I’d almost break down in tears.
> 
> A couple months ago I started getting shingles. I was told it could be from stress. My husband was so understanding and kind. He thought I was stressed from work. Right at the beginning of November he surprised me with a trip to a cabin for a long weekend to help me get my mind off my stress.
> 
> I just couldn’t take it and I broke down sobbing. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t continue to lie to him. I broke down and confessed everything to him.
> 
> At first he sat there in total shock. He asked if I was serious. I said yes. I was so sorry but yes. He sat there for a long time just not moving or saying anything. Then he asked me what he’d done to deserve this. I told him nothing. He didn’t deserve this at all. He asked me why. Why would I do this to him. To us. I apologize again and said I had no excuse. I was wrong and I had no excuse.
> 
> He got up and left the room and ignored me the rest of the night. When it was time for bed I came into the bedroom and he told me to go sleep in the guest room because he didn’t want to share a bed with me anymore. So I’ve been sleeping in the guest room ever since.
> 
> For the next two weeks he wouldn’t speak to me. Would barely look at me. He would eat with me. He’s been spending all his time at home either in the garage or down in the basement watching television. I honest think before this week we may have passed one of two sentences between us. I’ve been trying to give him space. I’m on eggshells because I’m terrified he’s going to tell me he wants a divorce and ask me to leave. (He owned the house before we met so I think he’d be within his rights to throw me out.)
> 
> On Monday this week I tried to start showing him nice gestures. I made him his favorite dinner Monday and when he came home from work he took one look at me and said he’d lost his appetite. He made a bowl of cereal and went down in the basement again.
> 
> Yesterday I asked him quietly if he was going to come with me Sunday to have our family picture taken for Christmas. This is a tradition in my family. My parents all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and all my nieces and nephews get together and we take a picture. I have had the heart to tell anyone in my family what I’ve done. I’m so ashamed of myself I can’t bring myself to do it.
> 
> He asked me why I thought he’d want to go anywhere with me and said maybe I should take my boyfriend instead. I said I don’t have a boyfriend I have a husband I love very much who I’d do anything in the world to keep. He said I’d do anything except keep my panties on while he’s not around. He was getting angrier and angrier. I’ve never really seen him so angry. I wasn’t exactly afraid of him though. It wasn’t like he was threatening me. He was just angry and the look of hatred he was giving me broke my heart.
> 
> I again told him how sorry I was and begged him to tell me what I can do to try and fix this. He just laughed and said it’s probably broken beyond repair at this point. I said don’t say that, please don’t say that. He asked me how the **** I thought he was supposed to feel. And I had some nerve to think he’d go get a picture taken with me.
> 
> I said it’s fine I’ll tell my family that you’re sick. He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t. Then he said this: “Don’t worry I’m not going to broadcast to the world that my wife is a *ing **.”
> 
> It devastated me to hear him call me that. This man who I love so much called me a ***. I just stood there and took it though because he’s right to be angry with me. I cried and he told me to spare him the phony tears. Then he told me to get the **** out of his basement and leave him alone. Then he broke down crying. The only time I’ve ever seen him cry before was when his dad died two years ago. But there he sat sobbing. I put my hand on his shoulder and he told me not to touch him. Just the feeling of me touching him makes him sick.
> 
> Before I left I said quietly one more time that I do love him. That I’m sorry for hurting him and I’ll do whatever I can within my power to save our marriage. He just waved me off so I went upstairs. We haven’t spoken at all since. He’s been working twelve hour days since this all started so he can avoid me as much as possible. When he came home tonight he took a shower and immediately went down the basement again. My stomach is on knots with pain, sorrow and fear that I’ve destroyed my marriage. Is there anything I can do to save us?
> 
> At least you came clean. I pray that your marriage works out. Give him space. Let him come to you on his terms. My wife left me for the Affair Partner AP, so at least you had the courage to tell him… but you really ended your marriage when you had the affair. I understand good, hard working men, at times become boring and the relationship becomes routine and stale but your husband was there and didn’t deserve this and I think account of your problems he would have not had an affair. It was foolish on your part. Pray and meditate and remember it was your demise if he elects to leave you, but only time, love and God can predicate your future. I hope you can save your marriage. I wish you the best.


----------



## AnnieB

Having just gone through something with my husband and opening the can of worms, I wish I had not. Actually this was something he was doing that I called him out for. Doesn't matter. At the end of the day people do things they regret. We are human. The concept of total honesty is a ghost and not attainable. You cannot spend your energy making up for something that will never be forgiven. I forgave my husband but that only means I moved on and decided to be happy. But in all reality, it will always be there. I just prefer to get over it. Everyone is different which is what makes us each special.


----------



## David60525

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Hello. I am a 30 year old woman. My husband is 33. We’ve been together for six years and married for three. Last year I made the single worst mistake of my life and had an affair with a male coworker. I have no excuse for what I did. It was wrong, selfish and self destructive. At the time I had excuses but I now realize that that is exactly what the were. Excuses.
> 
> My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.
> 
> I made the horribly selfish decision to seek comfort from a male coworker who had in the past made it clear to me that he was attracted to me. I’d always shut it down quickly before but at last year’s company Christmas party I was weak and I accepted his advances. We kissed after the party and began to text secretly to plan a tryst.
> 
> This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this. But I went ahead anyway. It was exciting and he paid attention to me and flattered me and I was a weak and foolish person and played along.
> 
> Then we met at a hotel and had sex. I almost immediately regretted my decision. I felt dirty and cheap laying there in that hotel bed while my husband was off at work none the wiser. I actually started to cry right there and my coworker only worried that I’d tell my husband and he’d get beaten up or that his fiancé would find out.
> 
> After this happened I immediately rededicated myself to being a good wife. I opened up to my husband about my feelings of neglect. He apologized for making me feel that way. He was so open to us working things out it made me realize how poorly I’d treated him. I was wracked with guilt over what I’d done.
> 
> I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good. But I’ve been stressed nonetheless. I’ve been suffering from guilt and remorse. Every time my husband would g out of his way to do something thoughtful or sweet I’d almost break down in tears.
> 
> A couple months ago I started getting shingles. I was told it could be from stress. My husband was so understanding and kind. He thought I was stressed from work. Right at the beginning of November he surprised me with a trip to a cabin for a long weekend to help me get my mind off my stress.
> 
> I just couldn’t take it and I broke down sobbing. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t continue to lie to him. I broke down and confessed everything to him.
> 
> At first he sat there in total shock. He asked if I was serious. I said yes. I was so sorry but yes. He sat there for a long time just not moving or saying anything. Then he asked me what he’d done to deserve this. I told him nothing. He didn’t deserve this at all. He asked me why. Why would I do this to him. To us. I apologize again and said I had no excuse. I was wrong and I had no excuse.
> 
> He got up and left the room and ignored me the rest of the night. When it was time for bed I came into the bedroom and he told me to go sleep in the guest room because he didn’t want to share a bed with me anymore. So I’ve been sleeping in the guest room ever since.
> 
> For the next two weeks he wouldn’t speak to me. Would barely look at me. He would eat with me. He’s been spending all his time at home either in the garage or down in the basement watching television. I honest think before this week we may have passed one of two sentences between us. I’ve been trying to give him space. I’m on eggshells because I’m terrified he’s going to tell me he wants a divorce and ask me to leave. (He owned the house before we met so I think he’d be within his rights to throw me out.)
> 
> On Monday this week I tried to start showing him nice gestures. I made him his favorite dinner Monday and when he came home from work he took one look at me and said he’d lost his appetite. He made a bowl of cereal and went down in the basement again.
> 
> Yesterday I asked him quietly if he was going to come with me Sunday to have our family picture taken for Christmas. This is a tradition in my family. My parents all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and all my nieces and nephews get together and we take a picture. I have had the heart to tell anyone in my family what I’ve done. I’m so ashamed of myself I can’t bring myself to do it.
> 
> He asked me why I thought he’d want to go anywhere with me and said maybe I should take my boyfriend instead. I said I don’t have a boyfriend I have a husband I love very much who I’d do anything in the world to keep. He said I’d do anything except keep my panties on while he’s not around. He was getting angrier and angrier. I’ve never really seen him so angry. I wasn’t exactly afraid of him though. It wasn’t like he was threatening me. He was just angry and the look of hatred he was giving me broke my heart.
> 
> I again told him how sorry I was and begged him to tell me what I can do to try and fix this. He just laughed and said it’s probably broken beyond repair at this point. I said don’t say that, please don’t say that. He asked me how the **** I thought he was supposed to feel. And I had some nerve to think he’d go get a picture taken with me.
> 
> I said it’s fine I’ll tell my family that you’re sick. He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t. Then he said this: “Don’t worry I’m not going to broadcast to the world that my wife is a *ing **.”
> 
> It devastated me to hear him call me that. This man who I love so much called me a ***. I just stood there and took it though because he’s right to be angry with me. I cried and he told me to spare him the phony tears. Then he told me to get the **** out of his basement and leave him alone. Then he broke down crying. The only time I’ve ever seen him cry before was when his dad died two years ago. But there he sat sobbing. I put my hand on his shoulder and he told me not to touch him. Just the feeling of me touching him makes him sick.
> 
> Before I left I said quietly one more time that I do love him. That I’m sorry for hurting him and I’ll do whatever I can within my power to save our marriage. He just waved me off so I went upstairs. We haven’t spoken at all since. He’s been working twelve hour days since this all started so he can avoid me as much as possible. When he came home tonight he took a shower and immediately went down the basement again. My stomach is on knots with pain, sorrow and fear that I’ve destroyed my marriage. Is there anything I can do to save us?


Hi, you have left to atone, but don't put up with
Gottmans 4 horses of apocalypse. That's 4 stages of relating when hurt. You need to go to counseling with him. You can and both recover.
On marage helpers is a resource, read proper carrying and feeding of mariage and all john gothman books, both read them oh. Only see a gottman certified counselor. Ant other will for sure ruin any reconciliation. 
You are willing for dialoge to discuss your needs and his when he us ready. Invite him ba k in your circle. You both will have to rebuild that trust again. It will take time
Tell him I need your input to resolve and make amends. I'm exerpincedd in education to refer you to these resources, both of you need to reconnect to god- you or each others chance to build a Christian home. Read gottmans how mariagr works, secrets from the love kab and 
His stuff an affairs good luck


----------



## gaius

Evinrude58 said:


> I disagree. Maybe you’re such a badass you turned on a dime and dropped your Cheater first second you found out. But for most, it takes a while for most guys to grasp losing their wife, their kids, their future plans, their financial security, retirements, etc.
> Thus guy isn’t begging her back, nor groveling, nor playing the pick me dance. I’d say he is doing well. Far better than the vast majority.


Last I read they don't have any kids and she offered him a divorce where she wouldn't take anything. That's how eager she is to get rid of him. So there's nothing to grasp really.

This whole thing, the way she had the affair and then what she told him, was designed to break up her marriage. She may say and even think she wants to stay married but in reality she doesn't. 

If this guy is too dumb to realize what she's trying to tell him by giving him all the dirty details of her session with some other guy then she might need to come to grips with that and do the divorce herself. Because I don't know what she could do to get rid of this dolt if he's not leaving already. What length does she have to go to before he gets the hint? Dip his balls in acid maybe?


----------



## itskaren

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Hello. I am a 30 year old woman. My husband is 33. We’ve been together for six years and married for three. Last year I made the single worst mistake of my life and had an affair with a male coworker. I have no excuse for what I did. It was wrong, selfish and self destructive. At the time I had excuses but I now realize that that is exactly what the were. Excuses.
> 
> My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.
> 
> I made the horribly selfish decision to seek comfort from a male coworker who had in the past made it clear to me that he was attracted to me. I’d always shut it down quickly before but at last year’s company Christmas party I was weak and I accepted his advances. We kissed after the party and began to text secretly to plan a tryst.
> 
> This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this. But I went ahead anyway. It was exciting and he paid attention to me and flattered me and I was a weak and foolish person and played along.
> 
> Then we met at a hotel and had sex. I almost immediately regretted my decision. I felt dirty and cheap laying there in that hotel bed while my husband was off at work none the wiser. I actually started to cry right there and my coworker only worried that I’d tell my husband and he’d get beaten up or that his fiancé would find out.
> 
> After this happened I immediately rededicated myself to being a good wife. I opened up to my husband about my feelings of neglect. He apologized for making me feel that way. He was so open to us working things out it made me realize how poorly I’d treated him. I was wracked with guilt over what I’d done.
> 
> I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good. But I’ve been stressed nonetheless. I’ve been suffering from guilt and remorse. Every time my husband would g out of his way to do something thoughtful or sweet I’d almost break down in tears.
> 
> A couple months ago I started getting shingles. I was told it could be from stress. My husband was so understanding and kind. He thought I was stressed from work. Right at the beginning of November he surprised me with a trip to a cabin for a long weekend to help me get my mind off my stress.
> 
> I just couldn’t take it and I broke down sobbing. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t continue to lie to him. I broke down and confessed everything to him.
> 
> At first he sat there in total shock. He asked if I was serious. I said yes. I was so sorry but yes. He sat there for a long time just not moving or saying anything. Then he asked me what he’d done to deserve this. I told him nothing. He didn’t deserve this at all. He asked me why. Why would I do this to him. To us. I apologize again and said I had no excuse. I was wrong and I had no excuse.
> 
> He got up and left the room and ignored me the rest of the night. When it was time for bed I came into the bedroom and he told me to go sleep in the guest room because he didn’t want to share a bed with me anymore. So I’ve been sleeping in the guest room ever since.
> 
> For the next two weeks he wouldn’t speak to me. Would barely look at me. He would eat with me. He’s been spending all his time at home either in the garage or down in the basement watching television. I honest think before this week we may have passed one of two sentences between us. I’ve been trying to give him space. I’m on eggshells because I’m terrified he’s going to tell me he wants a divorce and ask me to leave. (He owned the house before we met so I think he’d be within his rights to throw me out.)
> 
> On Monday this week I tried to start showing him nice gestures. I made him his favorite dinner Monday and when he came home from work he took one look at me and said he’d lost his appetite. He made a bowl of cereal and went down in the basement again.
> 
> Yesterday I asked him quietly if he was going to come with me Sunday to have our family picture taken for Christmas. This is a tradition in my family. My parents all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and all my nieces and nephews get together and we take a picture. I have had the heart to tell anyone in my family what I’ve done. I’m so ashamed of myself I can’t bring myself to do it.
> 
> He asked me why I thought he’d want to go anywhere with me and said maybe I should take my boyfriend instead. I said I don’t have a boyfriend I have a husband I love very much who I’d do anything in the world to keep. He said I’d do anything except keep my panties on while he’s not around. He was getting angrier and angrier. I’ve never really seen him so angry. I wasn’t exactly afraid of him though. It wasn’t like he was threatening me. He was just angry and the look of hatred he was giving me broke my heart.
> 
> I again told him how sorry I was and begged him to tell me what I can do to try and fix this. He just laughed and said it’s probably broken beyond repair at this point. I said don’t say that, please don’t say that. He asked me how the **** I thought he was supposed to feel. And I had some nerve to think he’d go get a picture taken with me.
> 
> I said it’s fine I’ll tell my family that you’re sick. He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t. Then he said this: “Don’t worry I’m not going to broadcast to the world that my wife is a *ing **.”
> 
> It devastated me to hear him call me that. This man who I love so much called me a ***. I just stood there and took it though because he’s right to be angry with me. I cried and he told me to spare him the phony tears. Then he told me to get the **** out of his basement and leave him alone. Then he broke down crying. The only time I’ve ever seen him cry before was when his dad died two years ago. But there he sat sobbing. I put my hand on his shoulder and he told me not to touch him. Just the feeling of me touching him makes him sick.
> 
> Before I left I said quietly one more time that I do love him. That I’m sorry for hurting him and I’ll do whatever I can within my power to save our marriage. He just waved me off so I went upstairs. We haven’t spoken at all since. He’s been working twelve hour days since this all started so he can avoid me as much as possible. When he came home tonight he took a shower and immediately went down the basement again. My stomach is on knots with pain, sorrow and fear that I’ve destroyed my marriage. Is there anything I can do to save us?


In a word “no” from experience your marriage cannot be saved. Sad as it is. My ex husband had an affair we eventually divorced I just could not trust him. Affairs ruin marriages.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I won’t end up on the street. Financially I’ll be fine if we do end up divorced. I will not do anything to punish my husband if he decides to ask for a divorce. Yes, it is his pension and 401k. He worked all the years at his job. I have my own retirement and 401k. I’ll be fine moving forward. As for the house I couldn’t bring myself to try to force him to give up something he’s worked so hard on over the years.


@Lost_And_Wandering how are you and your husband doing?


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## Gomezaddams51

The chances of saving your marriage is slim to none. You are going to have to grovel and kiss his feet and show him that you are worth keeping. You need to tell everyone what you have done, both families, your job, and anyone you know, and then quit your job so you do not work with the guy you screwed. Then you need to go to counseling and find a way to get your husband to go, if not with you, then separately and finally be prepared to move out and live on your own when he divorces you. This is a hard lesson to learn but I wager you never cheat again.

If your husband does decide to keep you, you had better become his slave and do anything and everything he wants in the bedroom and in the house. Treat him like a king and make him not regret his decision. Your cheating means he owns you now and you are subject to his decisions.


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## BigDaddyNY

Gomezaddams51 said:


> The chances of saving your marriage is slim to none. You are going to have to grovel and kiss his feet and show him that you are worth keeping. You need to tell everyone what you have done, both families, your job, and anyone you know, and then quit your job so you do not work with the guy you screwed. Then you need to go to counseling and find a way to get your husband to go, if not with you, then separately and finally be prepared to move out and live on your own when he divorces you. This is a hard lesson to learn but I wager you never cheat again.


The POSOM already moved several hours away if I'm not mistaken.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

BigDaddyNY said:


> @Lost_And_Wandering how are you and your husband doing?


Right now we’re basically coexisting. I’m still living at the house but we still sleep in separate rooms. He told me he doesn’t want to share a bed with me right now and he isn’t sure if he ever will again. While it stings I completely understand.

We both go to work and when we’re home we communicate when it comes to something involving our families or something like that but there’s no more talking about our days or anything like that. I do miss this but again I know he needs his space.

We plan on doing all the normal holiday things we usually do to keep up appearances m. This was his idea because he doesn’t want to make our family’s holidays about us potentially splitting up. He said after the new year he’d prefer if I moved out of the house. He said I can stay until I find a place. I knkw that legally I have rights to stay here despite the fact that he owned the house before we were even dating. However I also know that it’s pointless of me to make this difficult on him. If he needs space I’m going to give it to him. I also know this means I’m going to have to disclose to my family and friends what I’ve done.

So I confided in my older sister what’s been going on and needless to say she’s wasn’t too happy with me and my choices. So again I answered all her questions honestly and told her that I’m afraid my marriage is more than likely over and that after the new year I’m going to find a place to stay. I have also contacted an attorney in case he decides he wants a divorce. I am not going to try to make it hard for either of us. He and I have already talked about splitting things up if he decides this is over and we are pretty much in agreement on most things. There are some things we’ll have to hammer out. That’s about it right now. Oh and both of us have contacted therapists and are going to be starting individual counseling.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

@Lost_And_Wandering , what would your advice be now to a younger married woman who is thinking committing adultery against her husband or more succinctly, what would your advice be to a slightly younger you on the day you decided to do this?


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## Evinrude58

gaius said:


> Last I read they don't have any kids and she offered him a divorce where she wouldn't take anything. That's how eager she is to get rid of him. So there's nothing to grasp really.
> 
> This whole thing, the way she had the affair and then what she told him, was designed to break up her marriage. She may say and even think she wants to stay married but in reality she doesn't.
> 
> If this guy is too dumb to realize what she's trying to tell him by giving him all the dirty details of her session with some other guy then she might need to come to grips with that and do the divorce herself. Because I don't know what she could do to get rid of this dolt if he's not leaving already. What length does she have to go to before he gets the hint? Dip his balls in acid maybe?


I Don’t disagree, just saying most guys can’t turn off their feelings for their wife when blindsided by the worst betrayal of their life.
I still think he’s handling this better than most , and I’d buy him a beer if I could. This stuff ain’t easy.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that spelling out every last detail of her banging the guy…….. that would enrage me and a size 13 shoe print would be on her butt as she exited.

Only OP knows if she wants to “save it” or if she really just wants the security of the nest until she decides for sure her husband’s value is what she already showed him, or if he’s worth a little more than she thought during her affair. Her husband knows his worth to her now. He doesn’t seem to be wanting to let her keep him at his current rating of zero.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

gaius said:


> Last I read they don't have any kids and she offered him a divorce where she wouldn't take anything. That's how eager she is to get rid of him. So there's nothing to grasp really.
> 
> This whole thing, the way she had the affair and then what she told him, was designed to break up her marriage. She may say and even think she wants to stay married but in reality she doesn't.
> 
> If this guy is too dumb to realize what she's trying to tell him by giving him all the dirty details of her session with some other guy then she might need to come to grips with that and do the divorce herself. Because I don't know what she could do to get rid of this dolt if he's not leaving already. What length does she have to go to before he gets the hint? Dip his balls in acid maybe?


My husband is not a dolt and I can promise you he’s a far more intelligent than you’ll ever live to be. No I don’t want to get rid of him. Every piece of advice I’ve read on trying to save our marriage says to not spare any details when answering questions posed by him. Yes I do want to keep him but I’ve also made up my mind not to put him through more if he asks for a divorce. It’s not to “get rid of him”. He’s made it pretty clear that’s the way he’s leaning and he’s simply waiting for after the holidays so that my drama doesn’t ruin the season for our families.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

Dictum Veritas said:


> @Lost_And_Wandering , what would your advice be now to a younger married woman who is thinking committing adultery against her husband or more succinctly, what would your advice be to a slightly younger you on the day you decided to do this?


Not to do it, of course. Do you think I’d advise someone to do this after what I’ve put him through? I’d advise anyone, man or woman, not to do this.


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## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Not to do it, of course. Do you think I’d advise someone to do this* after what I’ve put him through*? I’d advise anyone, man or woman, not to do this.


That was the correct answer!


----------



## Diana7

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> My husband is not a dolt and I can promise you he’s a far more intelligent than you’ll ever live to be. No I don’t want to get rid of him. Every piece of advice I’ve read on trying to save our marriage says to not spare any details when answering questions posed by him. Yes I do want to keep him but I’ve also made up my mind not to put him through more if he asks for a divorce. It’s not to “get rid of him”. He’s made it pretty clear that’s the way he’s leaning and he’s simply waiting for after the holidays so that my drama doesn’t ruin the season for our families.


He sounds like a calm thoughtful guy, but sadly it does sound as if it may be over. Discussing who has what is pretty indicitative of him looking ahead to a life without you. There is always hope, but the reality is that adultery shatters the marriage. Some choose to end it, some choose to painstakingly try and piece it back together bit by bit but sometimes its too far gone.


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## Lost_And_Wandering

Diana7 said:


> He sounds like a calm thoughtful guy, but sadly it does sound as if it may be over. Discussing who has what is pretty indicitative of him looking ahead to a life without you. There is always hope, but the reality is that adultery shatters the marriage. Some choose to end it, some choose to painstakingly try and piece it back together bit by bit but sometimes its too far gone.


It angered me that this guy painted my husband as a stupid person who’s too dumb to think straight, I know he’s seething with me right now and he’s kept his anger under control in an attempt to make this as civil as possible. Yes I agree that it’s 99% chance that this is over. However this poster made it sound like I enacted a devious plan from day one to get rid of my husband and that’s not the case. I’d literally give or do anything right now for him to forgive me but I’ve come to the realization that he’s already mentally moving on from our marriage.


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## Dictum Veritas

Diana7 said:


> He sounds like a calm thoughtful guy, but sadly it does sound as if it may be over. Discussing who has what is pretty indicitative of him looking ahead to a life without you. There is always hope, but the reality is that adultery shatters the marriage. Some choose to end it, some choose to painstakingly try and piece it back together bit by bit but sometimes its too far gone.


This is the unfortunate reality of arguably the most destructive action a person can take in a marriage. No matter what the WS does, there might be no hope for any future relationship.

@Lost_And_Wandering , this is the dearest life lesson you might ever learn. You can allow this to sink you or you can use it to fix what is broken in you to have allowed this. This is up to you.


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## Fly With Me

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> My husband is not a dolt and I can promise you he’s a far more intelligent than you’ll ever live to be. No I don’t want to get rid of him. Every piece of advice I’ve read on trying to save our marriage says to not spare any details when answering questions posed by him. Yes I do want to keep him but I’ve also made up my mind not to put him through more if he asks for a divorce. It’s not to “get rid of him”. He’s made it pretty clear that’s the way he’s leaning and he’s simply waiting for after the holidays so that my drama doesn’t ruin the season for our families.


Hi I have read your story and really feel for you both. Since you told him it sounds like you have done everything right. I feel sad to read you are so separated. (Although it is understandable) 

I just wonder at this juncture if he needs to see more fight from you. I get that you are giving him space and that's good. At the same time if I were in your shoes I think I would ask him what the smallest things are you could do to repair the marriage. And start doing. Show him that you miss him and that you would do anything. He needs to feel deeply loved and desired by you. And obviously you can't cross any of his boundaries but I think if it were me I would be really vulnerable and tell him how much I missed him and how desperate I was to repair the marriage.

I guess part of me worries he might think the same way as some of the other posters on here and misinterpret your giving him space as not being that bothered.

While you are under the same roof seems to me to be your best hope and chance.

Obviously you know him best just my two pence.

I do wish you all the very best.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

I don't know the statistical numbers but, I would think the percentage of childless marriages that survive infidelity is quite low when the infidelity takes place early in the marriage.


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## SRCSRC

My ex-wife had an affair early in our marriage. Thanks to an incompetent MC, I foolishly agreed to stay against my better judgment and desire. We had no children. OP truly seems remorseful. My ex-wife was a phony and wasn't truly remorseful. I was too scared to look closely at her behavior. Compound that with the MC, I regretfully stayed another painful six years only to experience more of her cheating.

It's good that the OP now realizes what she has done. But you can't unring a bell. While some BHs allegedly look past a WW's affair, I believe most of them simply white-knuckle it and go along with the program. Let's face it, the WW threw the husband and marriage under the bus. I simply don't know how or why a WH should accept something like that. It looks like the OP has truly learned her lesson and won't do such a thing to her BH or subsequent relationship partner ever again. That is truly a good thing. It is just sad that, again, you just can't unring that bell. The AP should pay. His fiance should have been advised of what he did. He got off scot-free and will most likely cheat on her in the future.


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## Rubix Cubed

@Lost_And_Wandering 
I think from your confession forward you have been doing the right things for the most part. 
Keep in mind that if you do divorce there may be a chance he will be more open to you and the actions you have taken to try to do the right thing. With no tangible encumbrances, it will be 100% his feelings toward you. If you keep doing what it takes after a divorce versus just packing it in it shows your true character. Either way, you need to work on yourself and honestly answer the question of "WHY?" for yourself if not anyone else. You most likely know that answer, it's just a hard one to accept.


----------



## Davit Bek

Fly With Me said:


> Hi I have read your story and really feel for you both. Since you told him it sounds like you have done everything right. I feel sad to read you are so separated. (Although it is understandable)
> 
> *I just wonder at this juncture if he needs to see more fight from you. *I get that you are giving him space and that's good. *At the same time if I were in your shoes I think I would ask him what the smallest things are you could do to repair the marriage. And start doing. Show him that you miss him and that you would do anything. He needs to feel deeply loved and desired by you.* And obviously you can't cross any of his boundaries but I think if it were me I would be really vulnerable and tell him how much I missed him and how desperate I was to repair the marriage.
> 
> I guess part of me worries he might think the same way as some of the other posters on here and misinterpret your giving him space as not being that bothered.
> 
> While you are under the same roof seems to me to be your best hope and chance.
> 
> Obviously you know him best just my two pence.
> 
> I do wish you all the very best.


I completely agree. If there is a chance for this marriage to survive, it is only by you showing him that you are, as you say it, willing to do anything to have your marriage back. Actions and words. Also you have a very limited time to show him that. Accept whatever little room he allows you in his life, and fight. I hope I'm wrong and perhaps you already do that but it does not come across in your posts. You also may have made the decision that giving him space is better than showing how much you're willing to fight. Giving space can easily misunderstood as indifference, specially after an affair.


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## Landofblue

Sometimes a BH needs the marriage to legally be ended to signify the destruction their WW’s betrayal caused. It’s likely he wants to D, even if he wants to try and rebuild someday down the road, because he feels the need for justice and wants to have experiences with other women without actually breaking his vows. 
The fact that he said he would not do this while separated leads me to believe this.

Unfortunately this may be your only path to creating something new with him. If he honestly doesn’t find someone else once single he may be willing to try again, even if it means he won’t marry you again but in a few years might want to try a new relationship.

there are absolutely no guarantees for you unfortunately but you will have to learn to accept that.

So far you are doing the right things. Keep trying to show him you are all in for the long hall no matter what that means and no matter what he needs.


----------



## ConanHub

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> It angered me that this guy painted my husband as a stupid person who’s too dumb to think straight, I know he’s seething with me right now and he’s kept his anger under control in an attempt to make this as civil as possible. Yes I agree that it’s 99% chance that this is over. However this poster made it sound like I enacted a devious plan from day one to get rid of my husband and that’s not the case. I’d literally give or do anything right now for him to forgive me but I’ve come to the realization that he’s already mentally moving on from our marriage.


Put that guy on ignore. He's just taking up space while fabricating his fantasies.

This thread is for you, not for him to practice writing fiction.


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## DallasCowboyFan

Once you move out, it is very likely over. There is no time or presence to heal together, only to grow apart. Please ask him to ask his therapist if you should move. It's a move towards divorce and if that is what he wants, that's what he will get. But, it also means that your years together are nothing but a memory. The thing I really hate for you is that I believe you are remorseful and that this could work, but it doesn't sound like you are going to get a chance.


----------



## Galabar01

Were you able to confirm that the fiance of the OP knows what happened?


----------



## gr8ful1

Galabar01 said:


> Were you able to confirm that the fiance of the OP knows what happened?


The OP (Original Poster) is who started this thread. Of course she knows. Did you mean the AP’s betrayed spouse?


----------



## gaius

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> My husband is not a dolt and I can promise you he’s a far more intelligent than you’ll ever live to be. No I don’t want to get rid of him. Every piece of advice I’ve read on trying to save our marriage says to not spare any details when answering questions posed by him. Yes I do want to keep him but I’ve also made up my mind not to put him through more if he asks for a divorce. It’s not to “get rid of him”. He’s made it pretty clear that’s the way he’s leaning and he’s simply waiting for after the holidays so that my drama doesn’t ruin the season for our families.


I'm sure it's scary thinking about resetting your life. Moving out, not having him to provide for you anymore. Letting your parents and family know. A lot of people are terrified of change. But your body was trying to tell you something when it let some other guy climb on top of you. And then when it forced you to tell your husband. That this ain't the guy for you.

And quite frankly it's always the guys who are waiting until after the holidays. Or sticking with it for their kids. Whatever poor excuse they can come up with to not do what needs to be done. In the long run you're going to be much better off if you can find a more happy medium between man and provider. Instead of all provider and no man.


----------



## Evinrude58

SRCSRC said:


> My ex-wife had an affair early in our marriage. Thanks to an incompetent MC, I foolishly agreed to stay against my better judgment and desire. We had no children. OP truly seems remorseful. My ex-wife was a phony and wasn't truly remorseful. I was too scared to look closely at her behavior. Compound that with the MC, I regretfully stayed another painful six years only to experience more of her cheating.
> 
> It's good that the OP now realizes what she has done. But you can't unring a bell. While some BHs allegedly look past a WW's affair, I believe most of them simply white-knuckle it and go along with the program. Let's face it, the WW threw the husband and marriage under the bus. I simply don't know how or why a WH should accept something like that.* It looks like the OP has truly learned her lesson and won't do such a thing to her BH or subsequent relationship partner ever again.* That is truly a good thing. It is just sad that, again, you just can't unring that bell. The AP should pay. His fiance should have been advised of what he did. He got off scot-free and will most likely cheat on her in the future.


I agree and not picking on your post, BUT…….
What has really happened to show anyone she learned her lesson? Why did she do it to start with? Everything I’ve ever read or experienced has shown that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and that cheating the second time us a lot easier on the conscience than the first time.

OP may be remorseful, and seems that way to me. But her being remorseful gives zero insurance against a repeat performance and the previous performance gives me reason to be inclined to believe she’s more likely to want yo play the part again, if circumstances were favorable.


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## snowbum

No you can't and you don' t deserve to.

You took a vow for richer or poorer. I've been down to $5 to our name. God's honest truth. There's not much poorer. It sucked. It was awful. Took 10 years.... 10.... to climb into middle class range. Counting every cent we made.

Life was rough. No vacations. No weekends away. Dinners out (Applebees or better) were rare. 

Years passed. Dh achieved his dreams. Money isn't a factor. But you know what? I didn't bail or leave over money. I also am not impressed by wealth. If middle class is $200,000 , been there and don't care.

You left for money reasons, cheated after weeks- not years, and now you want this to go away to avoid embarrassment? Nope.

You don't know what love is. Money weighed on your mind more than love. I


----------



## Oracle101

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Hello. I am a 30 year old woman. My husband is 33. We’ve been together for six years and married for three. Last year I made the single worst mistake of my life and had an affair with a male coworker. I have no excuse for what I did. It was wrong, selfish and self destructive. At the time I had excuses but I now realize that that is exactly what the were. Excuses.
> 
> My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.
> 
> I made the horribly selfish decision to seek comfort from a male coworker who had in the past made it clear to me that he was attracted to me. I’d always shut it down quickly before but at last year’s company Christmas party I was weak and I accepted his advances. We kissed after the party and began to text secretly to plan a tryst.
> 
> This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this. But I went ahead anyway. It was exciting and he paid attention to me and flattered me and I was a weak and foolish person and played along.
> 
> Then we met at a hotel and had sex. I almost immediately regretted my decision. I felt dirty and cheap laying there in that hotel bed while my husband was off at work none the wiser. I actually started to cry right there and my coworker only worried that I’d tell my husband and he’d get beaten up or that his fiancé would find out.
> 
> After this happened I immediately rededicated myself to being a good wife. I opened up to my husband about my feelings of neglect. He apologized for making me feel that way. He was so open to us working things out it made me realize how poorly I’d treated him. I was wracked with guilt over what I’d done.
> 
> I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good. But I’ve been stressed nonetheless. I’ve been suffering from guilt and remorse. Every time my husband would g out of his way to do something thoughtful or sweet I’d almost break down in tears.
> 
> A couple months ago I started getting shingles. I was told it could be from stress. My husband was so understanding and kind. He thought I was stressed from work. Right at the beginning of November he surprised me with a trip to a cabin for a long weekend to help me get my mind off my stress.
> 
> I just couldn’t take it and I broke down sobbing. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t continue to lie to him. I broke down and confessed everything to him.
> 
> At first he sat there in total shock. He asked if I was serious. I said yes. I was so sorry but yes. He sat there for a long time just not moving or saying anything. Then he asked me what he’d done to deserve this. I told him nothing. He didn’t deserve this at all. He asked me why. Why would I do this to him. To us. I apologize again and said I had no excuse. I was wrong and I had no excuse.
> 
> He got up and left the room and ignored me the rest of the night. When it was time for bed I came into the bedroom and he told me to go sleep in the guest room because he didn’t want to share a bed with me anymore. So I’ve been sleeping in the guest room ever since.
> 
> For the next two weeks he wouldn’t speak to me. Would barely look at me. He would eat with me. He’s been spending all his time at home either in the garage or down in the basement watching television. I honest think before this week we may have passed one of two sentences between us. I’ve been trying to give him space. I’m on eggshells because I’m terrified he’s going to tell me he wants a divorce and ask me to leave. (He owned the house before we met so I think he’d be within his rights to throw me out.)
> 
> On Monday this week I tried to start showing him nice gestures. I made him his favorite dinner Monday and when he came home from work he took one look at me and said he’d lost his appetite. He made a bowl of cereal and went down in the basement again.
> 
> Yesterday I asked him quietly if he was going to come with me Sunday to have our family picture taken for Christmas. This is a tradition in my family. My parents all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and all my nieces and nephews get together and we take a picture. I have had the heart to tell anyone in my family what I’ve done. I’m so ashamed of myself I can’t bring myself to do it.
> 
> He asked me why I thought he’d want to go anywhere with me and said maybe I should take my boyfriend instead. I said I don’t have a boyfriend I have a husband I love very much who I’d do anything in the world to keep. He said I’d do anything except keep my panties on while he’s not around. He was getting angrier and angrier. I’ve never really seen him so angry. I wasn’t exactly afraid of him though. It wasn’t like he was threatening me. He was just angry and the look of hatred he was giving me broke my heart.
> 
> I again told him how sorry I was and begged him to tell me what I can do to try and fix this. He just laughed and said it’s probably broken beyond repair at this point. I said don’t say that, please don’t say that. He asked me how the **** I thought he was supposed to feel. And I had some nerve to think he’d go get a picture taken with me.
> 
> I said it’s fine I’ll tell my family that you’re sick. He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t. Then he said this: “Don’t worry I’m not going to broadcast to the world that my wife is a *ing **.”
> 
> It devastated me to hear him call me that. This man who I love so much called me a ***. I just stood there and took it though because he’s right to be angry with me. I cried and he told me to spare him the phony tears. Then he told me to get the **** out of his basement and leave him alone. Then he broke down crying. The only time I’ve ever seen him cry before was when his dad died two years ago. But there he sat sobbing. I put my hand on his shoulder and he told me not to touch him. Just the feeling of me touching him makes him sick.
> 
> Before I left I said quietly one more time that I do love him. That I’m sorry for hurting him and I’ll do whatever I can within my power to save our marriage. He just waved me off so I went upstairs. We haven’t spoken at all since. He’s been working twelve hour days since this all started so he can avoid me as much as possible. When he came home tonight he took a shower and immediately went down the basement again. My stomach is on knots with pain, sorrow and fear that I’ve destroyed my marriage. Is there anything I can do to save us?


*All Men Cope with infidelity in their own way, and via their own growth. I hear allot of pain in his voice and actions. 

Isolating himself downstairs is just a series of punishments he is doing to you and himself , He needs as much help grieving and counseling as you both need. 

2020 destroyed many relationships, the stress just wrecked Havoc on what was fragile to begin with. 

The first step is .. He has to forgive you. 
You have to forgive yourself!! Seriously, start there! enough of this self loathing nonsense, you've done enough for the both of you to fill the glass for a whole year. Move on Now. 

Stick it out! : I don't know how long or how many times he shall retreat to the basement ,call you bad names? etc but try to see all of this thru. Try to get him and you to some counselor to TALK instead of him retreating , because that never helps anyone!

Come Clean: Fear has a very destructive and unpredictable side effect, don't allow it to rule you. Over come your fears 1st! I don't know what state your in? But laws are Laws for a reason. He cannot simply throw you out! even if he wanted too? Get pass being homeless or whatever, know you have family and friends close by to help you in your time of need. Once you acknowledge this, that fear will not hold you anymore! Thus, take care of the other fears by coming clean and telling your family the truth! Don't allow it to be told by him or someone else and don't you dare sugar coat it either! There is no need for that. We all fall short, we all at times under various pressures, succumb to things we regret later. Some are stronger! Some had previous experience before they got married which helps them to remain faithful through allot of stuff. You it seems, did not have that kind of stamina . Now you do! 

Don't let it rule you. Take charge of your situation , get HELP! Listen to GOOD Advice and heal your heart. 

POS: I don't know if quitting your job helps, but it might be very good for your husband peace of mind to get another job that is reasonable and break ties with the other partner who can give less than a sh....! about your welfare! Lets be clear on that! 

I would address other things but I don't believe it would serve you well , when you 1st need to get your home in order and get counseling for you both. I believe in front of a counselor , if he yells! gets it all out and learns how to forgive and understands the truth of how it happened? He might come to bear with it and heal and you both! Move passed it Stronger! and better together. 

I know ! because I had friends who went thru the same thing and came out stronger together now for it. Its been more than 12 years since their incident! and they are still together , very happy, very strong! and much much Wiser! 

You can do this!! You both can!


----------



## SunCMars

Fate plays in, Fate plays out.

Yet, more of those _External Mandates_.

It may be, Madam (L.A.W.), that other plans are in store, are in play for thee.

Maybe, this is but a painful chapter, with better ones to follow. 

If not better ones, than some that will be made differently.

For example, babies need to be born from thee, and from some other male sire.

They cannot be denied, their right of birth is fore ordained.




_King Brian-_


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SunCMars said:


> Fate plays in, Fate plays out.
> 
> Yet, more of those _External Mandates_.
> 
> It may be, Madam (L.A.W.), that other plans are in store, are in play for thee.
> 
> Maybe, this is but a painful chapter, with better ones to follow.
> 
> If not better ones, than some that will be made differently.
> 
> For example, babies need to be born from thee, and from some other male sire.
> 
> They cannot be denied, their right of birth is fore ordained.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _King Brian-_


Alas, destructions wrought and trampled hearts of lovers ere'fore crushed so callously will persist for life an ever closing trail of footprints bloody.


----------



## jparistotle

gaius said:


> Last I read they don't have any kids and she offered him a divorce where she wouldn't take anything. That's how eager she is to get rid of him. So there's nothing to grasp really.
> 
> This whole thing, the way she had the affair and then what she told him, was designed to break up her marriage. She may say and even think she wants to stay married but in reality she doesn't.
> 
> If this guy is too dumb to realize what she's trying to tell him by giving him all the dirty details of her session with some other guy then she might need to come to grips with that and do the divorce herself. Because I don't know what she could do to get rid of this dolt if he's not leaving already. What length does she have to go to before he gets the hint? Dip his balls in acid maybe?


Not knowing the guy or the wife, I have to say this is the dumbest advise or insight I have ever seen. This is not helping but seems you have your own issues.


----------



## jparistotle

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> It angered me that this guy painted my husband as a stupid person who’s too dumb to think straight, I know he’s seething with me right now and he’s kept his anger under control in an attempt to make this as civil as possible. Yes I agree that it’s 99% chance that this is over. However this poster made it sound like I enacted a devious plan from day one to get rid of my husband and that’s not the case. I’d literally give or do anything right now for him to forgive me but I’ve come to the realization that he’s already mentally moving on from our marriage.


Posters like that have theit own issues and are damaged. Ignore but call them out. They like drama


----------



## Evinrude58

I agree that once you move out the relationship is done. If you really want to fix it, gotta get past his stonewalling and I don’t know how to help you do that. 
giving space for a while is wise, but eventually you’ve got to pull out all the stops and do whatever it takes to get him talking to you.
I don’t suggest love bombing him if he breaks, but if he does and wants sex constantly, that hysterical bonding can with for a short while. 
it’s after it wears off that he may start reliving the pain and want to leave for good. 
what you did is very likely to have ruined and hope of a happy marriage. He’ll never fully trust you again. His vision of what love is, is likely shattered. His self confidence is ruined, future with you trashed, and he has zero way to fix it……. What’s he left with? A wife who is a cheater. It’s really all on you to study him, spend all that time you were lusting for your AP, learning what helps your husband get past your betrayal. That’s about all I can offer.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

gaius said:


> I'm sure it's scary thinking about resetting your life. Moving out, not having him to provide for you anymore. Letting your parents and family know. A lot of people are terrified of change. But your body was trying to tell you something when it let some other guy climb on top of you. And then when it forced you to tell your husband. That this ain't the guy for you.
> 
> And quite frankly it's always the guys who are waiting until after the holidays. Or sticking with it for their kids. Whatever poor excuse they can come up with to not do what needs to be done. In the long run you're going to be much better off if you can find a more happy medium between man and provider. Instead of all provider and no man.


I have no idea what you mean by he hasn’t done what needs to be done. He’s got an attorney and made it clear he wants me out after the holidays. I guess maybe you’d like him to beat me up or something to prove to you that he’s man enough to handle this.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I have no idea what you mean by he hasn’t done what needs to be done. He’s got an attorney and made it clear he wants me out after the holidays. I guess maybe you’d like him to beat me up or something to prove to you that he’s man enough to handle this.


They were referring to men basically not liking change(future w/o wife and 50% kids) and trying to hold on to things(past happy memories w/o adultry)

In the words of Josey Wales, "He needs to get busy living(new life), not get busy dying"(holding on to old life)


----------



## Livvie

Evinrude58 said:


> I disagree. Maybe you’re such a badass you turned on a dime and dropped your Cheater first second you found out. But for most, it takes a while for most guys to grasp losing their wife, their kids, their future plans, their financial security, retirements, etc.
> Thus guy isn’t begging her back, nor groveling, nor playing the pick me dance. I’d say he is doing well. Far better than the vast majority.


But there are no kids, this guy is really young (early 30s)!!!!!, he's not going to lose his financial plans or his retirement.


----------



## QuietGuy

Lost, if your H still insists you move out after the holidays, do what you can to keep the lines of communication open. Maybe suggest that you both agree to meet at least twice a week. Once to discuss anything he wants and once where the affair is off limits. As others have indicated, the best chance of R is if you can avoid moving out.


----------



## Livvie

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree and not picking on your post, BUT…….
> What has really happened to show anyone she learned her lesson? Why did she do it to start with? Everything I’ve ever read or experienced has shown that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and that cheating the second time us a lot easier on the conscience than the first time.
> 
> OP may be remorseful, and seems that way to me. But her being remorseful gives zero insurance against a repeat performance and the previous performance gives me reason to be inclined to believe she’s more likely to want yo play the part again, if circumstances were favorable.


She has refused to participate in answering those kinds of questions. She said she doesn't have to answer to people on the internet 😀


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## norbi141

I don't think she has to provide nor we need to know all the nasty details. Simple yes or no will more than suffice. In fact she doesn't have even answer that. If she wanna argue with people that's her perogative, but it's not promising. 

Except the protection. If they didn't use full protection then she should do check up for STDs, HIV, HPV and any other thing she could catch from the OM. And do not engage sexually her husband until result come in. Also OP should find some diplomatic way to encourage her husband to do same check up for himself. 

Going back to the "yes or no" question, guys who are brings this up, actually are making a good point. If the answer is yes and her husband got detailed timeline than it's gonna be a big problem. She did not only gave yourself willingly to another man, but also gave him "more access" than her husband ever got. I'm not sure if he can get over this. Like it or not OP will have address this issue whether directly with her husband or during IC/MC. Another big obstacle will be bringing all of this to their marriage without offending her husband or bringing the affair or OM. 

Just two cents from a newbie.


----------



## Megaforce

David60525 said:


> Hi, you have left to atone, but don't put up with
> Gottmans 4 horses of apocalypse. That's 4 stages of relating when hurt. You need to go to counseling with him. You can and both recover.
> On marage helpers is a resource, read proper carrying and feeding of mariage and all john gothman books, both read them oh. Only see a gottman certified counselor. Ant other will for sure ruin any reconciliation.
> You are willing for dialoge to discuss your needs and his when he us ready. Invite him ba k in your circle. You both will have to rebuild that trust again. It will take time
> Tell him I need your input to resolve and make amends. I'm exerpincedd in education to refer you to these resources, both of you need to reconnect to god- you or each others chance to build a Christian home. Read gottmans how mariagr works, secrets from the love kab and
> His stuff an affairs good luck


I thought I read that Gothman was a cheater . If so, take that into consideration. 

On retaining a lawyer, I would not, at this point. You can always do it if served with no disadvantage for having held off.
Doing it now sends the wrong message since you hope to reconcile. 

This getting you pregnant concern seems so far fetched, it is astounding it was mentioned.


----------



## Andy1001

The betrayed husband is still young, there are no kids and his only sin was working too much to make a better life for him and his wife. He had his own house and he was probably looking forward to spending the rest of his life with the woman he loved and thought loved him. Then she blew up his world.
He’s done with this marriage and rightfully so, he will probably never be able to fully trust a woman again. And all because the op felt neglected and decided to have a little strange.


----------



## Megaforce

I agree. Young and no kids, move on. I think it takes exceptional mental gymnastics to try to stay in a relationship with someone who has betrayed one. I have my doubts about anyone's ability to have a happy relationship going forward after infidelity. Could be I am projecting, but, having interacted with hundreds of betrayed men, very few got past this.
I read about a survey. Conducted by a Michelle Langley, some author who had no real credentials, where she followed up with betrayed men who stayed. Not sure if I believe her, and she did not divulge her sample size.

She claimed at the two year post discovery point, 100% of the men reported regretting having stayed. She hypothesized that this was due to the initial fear of being alone subsiding, the competitiveness with the O M abating, and their realization that the" prize" for which they were competing was, really, not much of a prize.

The decision lays with your husband, as you know. Perhaps he is atypical and can live with this. Odds are he cannot for the long haul.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Happy New Year. I thought I’d give a short update on my situation. My post seems to have generated quite a lot of interest. I would also like to thank those of you who gave me good advice. 

My husband and I had a fight? Confrontation? I’m not sure what to call it, on Christmas evening. On Christmas morning my husband decided he didn’t want to spend the holiday with me. He had previously said he was willing to put on a brave face for the sale of both our families. Well he decided on Christmas morning that he wasn’t willing to do that and that we should each go to our own family’s celebration.

So I was questioned by no mother as to why my husband has been avoiding my family since November. My husband has grown quite close to my parents since his father passed away and I know it was starting to bother my parents that he hasn’t been coming around them.

At the end of the evening after my bothers and sisters left I finally told my parents what has been going on. Suffice to say my parents, especially my father, are very disappointed in my actions. A little background on them. My parents are Mexican American immigrants and are pretty socially conservative. They are both devoted Catholics and they are both horrified that I stepped outside my marriage. Both of my parents told me that they are really embarrassed and disappointed in me. My father right now doesn’t even want to speak to me and he told me I need to beg my husband for forgiveness and hope he doesn’t leave me.

So that’s my family situation now. On Christmas night my husband came home quite drunk from his brother’s house. Now this is so uncharacteristic of him to drive drunk. He doesn’t even really drink very much. But he was drunk on Christmas and I told him he should have called me to come get him or had one of his brothers drive him and he shouldn’t have driven drunk. 

He took this opportunity to tell me off in pretty rough words. He was as angry as I’ve ever seen him. He told me that my actions have destroyed every memory he and I have together. He said he can’t think of one good memory that we share without the thoughts of me cheating creeping in. He said he’s going to find my AP and beat him up. He knows where the guy lives. He knows where he works. He knows all this stuff about him. I gave him a lot of the information trying to be open and honest and he did internet research on his own. Now I only asked him to please not do anything stupid out of concern for my husband. It’s not that I think my AP would hurt him. I know my husband can definitely best him up. I don’t want my husband to go to jail over this. When I begged him not to do anything he said I was protecting my boyfriend. This angered me as he keeps referring to this man as my boyfriend so I lashed back at him out of anger.

So we ended up in a shouting match in our kitchen with me asking him just what it is he wants from me. I seriously told him I’ll take a lie detector if he believes I’ve had any contact with this man since he moved. He said all he wants from me is to be out of his life and that he hated me and wished he’d never met me and wasted the last six years of his life on a liar and a w**re. He told me he wants me out in a week and then he went to bed. That was our Christmas.

So we avoided each other all week. I finally had to talk to him about something involving our car lease this week. It’s coming up in February so I had to ask him what we’re doing about it. He told me he’s not renewing the lease and I’m on my own when it comes to getting another car. He leased my car in his name because his credit score is better than mine and I’ve been making the payments. So I told him he expects me to find a place to live and a new car by February. I could tell he was getting angry all over again so I went to leave the room and he told me if I could have kept my legs closed while his back was turned none of this would have happened.

We spent NYE apart too. I stayed home as I feel like my family is really not happy with me now. He went out with his brothers and came home some time after one which is when I went to bed. It was the first time since I met him that he and I were apart on New Years and it really drive home to me how far apart we are right now. 

This morning when he woke up he drank coffee and gave me a dirty look when I went into the kitchen. He got up to leave and I figured another day of us avoiding each other. But he stopped and asked how this happened? How did our relationship come to this that we hurt each other so much? I didn’t know how to answer him. I’m just now starting therapy to figure out why I did this to us. There’s got to be something self destructive about me that caused it. I can’t really blame him. He’s never been abusive or distant. Even now when he gets angry with me and yells I never feel scared of him. I feel like he’s venting his anger at me. 

I told him I wish I knew what is wrong with me that I’d do this and that while I know my words mean nothing to him I truly am sorry for hurting him. He apologized for the name he’s called me when he’s angry. He said he alternates his mood every day. He said one day he wants to throw me out and divorce me and the next he wants to hug me and tell me we can work this out. He cried while he told me this. He said he’s in hell because even though he wants to hate me he still loves me and he doesn’t know what to do. He doesn’t know if he’ll ever trust me again but he’s also afraid he’ll never find anyone again or be able to move on with his life.

So he said that he is going to see a therapist starting January 10 to try to sort through all his feelings. He also said he really isn’t sure if he wants me to move out and he didn’t really mean he wanted me out in a week. That’s the thing. He’s got all this anger and resentment for me right now but he’s still worried about me being able to find a place to live. He also told me that he hasn’t really told his family what’s going on yet. They just think he and I are fighting right now. He feels like if we ever do try to work this out that he doesn’t want his family, especially his brothers, to know because they’ll never be able to look at me the same and that night damage our relationship even more.

So we ended up actually talking calmly for nearly an hour this morning. I told him about my parents and he seemed genuinely hurt that they thought he was mad at them for something. He really does love my parents like his own. His father is gone and he’s never been particularly close to his mom. 

He again told me he’s spoken to an attorney in order to know his rights in case he decides to move on. He suggested I do the same thing. I said I’d look into it. I was thinking of talking to my parent’s attorney about this. Like right now we’re being civil but you never know how things scam change. While I’m not in the mood to take things like his pension or house there are things we share that we’ll need to work out if we do split.

He told me last night he just went to the bar with his brothers and they dropped him off right at our house. I said I feel like I don’t have the right to ask him what he’s been up to and I’d understand if he felt like he needed to get back at me with some woman. Of course I don’t want him to but how can I tell him not to? I have no moral high ground at all when it comes to that. My husband is a really attractive guy and I know he’d have no problem finding a willing woman. But he said he’s got enough woman problems in his life right now without involving another one. And he actually for one brief second gave me his patented smart ass smirk that I’ve loved since the day I met him and despaired of ever seeing again.

So as he went to get dressed to go out and clean the garage he told me that no matter how this year works out between us that he does love me. I told him I love him too. We agreed that we need to talk like this at least once a week. There was no kiss or hug and I still feel like we are a long, long way away from him ever being affectionate toward me. Maybe that will never happen again but I think he got a lot off his chest.

A lot of people asked about my AP and his fiancé. I did message her on Facebook. I also got a response from her. Not very polite and she had a lot of choice things to say to me but the gist of it was that they had already ended their engagement because she suspected him of sleeping with someone else and that she also suspected us from the time we worked together. She then said my husband had also contacted her and that I don’t deserve him and she hoped he leaves me. So there’s that.


----------



## Openminded

I hope things go well for all of you. Time will tell what’s to be. Best wishes.


----------



## QuietGuy

Sorry you had such a horrible holiday season. Your husband seeing a therapist and admitting he loves you are positive signs, as is finally being able to talk calmly. Some WS have had to endure many months of being yelled at and called names. It appears that there is a chance you marriage may survive.


----------



## Laurentium

I hope you both found good therapists.


----------



## Fly With Me

Thanks for the update. It was good to read and well written. I also think it sounds positive. It sounds really hard. I hope he stays. I hope the counselling helps. Keep us updated.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

It's noble(yet sad) that he wants to shield you from judgement and repercussion at his own expense. It's never good to have no support system while dealing with something like this.


----------



## Andy1001

There was a story here a few years ago which was kinda similar in that the husband found out his wife was cheating. He flipped out initially but then he started to play nice and said he wanted a divorce for his own sense of justice but didn’t rule out getting back together. The wife agreed to everything and didn’t try to fight him over the financial arrangements.
They even went to the courthouse together.
Once the divorce was finalised he disappeared and she never heard from him again. He got his own back by playing on her guilt and her desire to reconcile at all costs. She ended up with nothing.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Andy1001 said:


> There was a story here a few years ago which was kinda similar in that the husband found out his wife was cheating. He flipped out initially but then he started to play nice and said he wanted a divorce for his own sense of justice but didn’t rule out getting back together. The wife agreed to everything and didn’t try to fight him over the financial arrangements.
> They even went to the courthouse together.
> Once the divorce was finalised he disappeared and she never heard from him again. He got his own back by playing on her guilt and her desire to reconcile at all costs. She ended up with nothing.


Could he be doing that? Perhaps. But my own sense is that he’s not. First off I would not think of trying to take his house from him. He owned it already when we met. He turned it from a dump into a beautiful home all with his own hands and hard work. How could I imagine trying to take that from him? His pension I have no interest in taking. It’s his and I have my own pension and 401k. We do have some community property which we would have to figure out. There’s a boat which we bought and some other things but right now I’m not thinking of things like that.


----------



## Willnotbill

@Lost_And_Wandering it sounds like you and husband have a chance but its a long road. Have patience with with your husband because he will see or hear things that will bring up these memories at anytime. It could take years for that to end and it may never end. His questions might go on for a long time too.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Livvie said:


> She has refused to participate in answering those kinds of questions. She said she doesn't have to answer to people on the internet 😀


I DON’T have to answer any questions for internet strangers that I don’t feel like they have the need to know.


----------



## Beach123

What’s your plan to move right away? He asked you on Christmas - to move within a week. Why haven’t you honored his request?


----------



## QuietGuy

Lost, I would suggest not responding at all to unhelpful posters, even to tell them that you have no obligation to to respond to them. It just gives them a reason to continue posting. I think you can actually put them on ignore, but I don't know how to do this. Your actions have kept the possibility of R alive. Stay the course. Good luck!


----------



## jonty30

QuietGuy said:


> Lost, I would suggest not responding at all to unhelpful posters, even to tell them that you have no obligation to to respond to them. It just gives them a reason to continue posting. I think you can actually put them on ignore, but I don't know how to do this. Your actions have kept the possibility of R alive. Stay the course. Good luck!


You click on the user's name. Then, under his/her name, you click on the three dots and click on ignore.


----------



## OddOne

QuietGuy said:


> Lost, I would suggest not responding at all to unhelpful posters, even to tell them that you have no obligation to to respond to them. It just gives them a reason to continue posting. I think you can actually put them on ignore, but I don't know how to do this. Your actions have kept the possibility of R alive. Stay the course. Good luck!


Place cursor over a poster/commentator's profile image or username below it then click on the 3 dots in the top right corner that appear in the mini window. The ignore option should appear.


----------



## ABHale

I hope he finds his happiness, I just don’t think it will be with you.


----------



## Davit Bek

He wants his life back previous to the affair, and that's something that no one can offer him, the least of everyone you. I'd hope that most people would be horrified of their marriage ending, or at least horrified of hurting someone they purportedly love so deeply, but I'm not sure either of these come across in your posts. You admitted to cheating because you felt guilty, and that it was completely premeditated by your own admission so I'm not sure what a therapist can say beyond the fact that you acted extremely selfishly and with complete disregard towards your husbands feelings, and with no fear towards destroying your marriage. I wish you and your husband the best, but individually. I hope he ends this marriage so he can have peace and find a woman who honors and respects him.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

I wish there was a way to get every single person that has infidelity on the brain to read this thread. You can go from being the love of someone's life to a cheap ***** so easily, while being so easily avoidable too. Was that one orgasm worth your entire marriage?


----------



## ConanHub

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Happy New Year. I thought I’d give a short update on my situation. My post seems to have generated quite a lot of interest. I would also like to thank those of you who gave me good advice.
> 
> My husband and I had a fight? Confrontation? I’m not sure what to call it, on Christmas evening. On Christmas morning my husband decided he didn’t want to spend the holiday with me. He had previously said he was willing to put on a brave face for the sale of both our families. Well he decided on Christmas morning that he wasn’t willing to do that and that we should each go to our own family’s celebration.
> 
> So I was questioned by no mother as to why my husband has been avoiding my family since November. My husband has grown quite close to my parents since his father passed away and I know it was starting to bother my parents that he hasn’t been coming around them.
> 
> At the end of the evening after my bothers and sisters left I finally told my parents what has been going on. Suffice to say my parents, especially my father, are very disappointed in my actions. A little background on them. My parents are Mexican American immigrants and are pretty socially conservative. They are both devoted Catholics and they are both horrified that I stepped outside my marriage. Both of my parents told me that they are really embarrassed and disappointed in me. My father right now doesn’t even want to speak to me and he told me I need to beg my husband for forgiveness and hope he doesn’t leave me.
> 
> So that’s my family situation now. On Christmas night my husband came home quite drunk from his brother’s house. Now this is so uncharacteristic of him to drive drunk. He doesn’t even really drink very much. But he was drunk on Christmas and I told him he should have called me to come get him or had one of his brothers drive him and he shouldn’t have driven drunk.
> 
> He took this opportunity to tell me off in pretty rough words. He was as angry as I’ve ever seen him. He told me that my actions have destroyed every memory he and I have together. He said he can’t think of one good memory that we share without the thoughts of me cheating creeping in. He said he’s going to find my AP and beat him up. He knows where the guy lives. He knows where he works. He knows all this stuff about him. I gave him a lot of the information trying to be open and honest and he did internet research on his own. Now I only asked him to please not do anything stupid out of concern for my husband. It’s not that I think my AP would hurt him. I know my husband can definitely best him up. I don’t want my husband to go to jail over this. When I begged him not to do anything he said I was protecting my boyfriend. This angered me as he keeps referring to this man as my boyfriend so I lashed back at him out of anger.
> 
> So we ended up in a shouting match in our kitchen with me asking him just what it is he wants from me. I seriously told him I’ll take a lie detector if he believes I’ve had any contact with this man since he moved. He said all he wants from me is to be out of his life and that he hated me and wished he’d never met me and wasted the last six years of his life on a liar and a w**re. He told me he wants me out in a week and then he went to bed. That was our Christmas.
> 
> So we avoided each other all week. I finally had to talk to him about something involving our car lease this week. It’s coming up in February so I had to ask him what we’re doing about it. He told me he’s not renewing the lease and I’m on my own when it comes to getting another car. He leased my car in his name because his credit score is better than mine and I’ve been making the payments. So I told him he expects me to find a place to live and a new car by February. I could tell he was getting angry all over again so I went to leave the room and he told me if I could have kept my legs closed while his back was turned none of this would have happened.
> 
> We spent NYE apart too. I stayed home as I feel like my family is really not happy with me now. He went out with his brothers and came home some time after one which is when I went to bed. It was the first time since I met him that he and I were apart on New Years and it really drive home to me how far apart we are right now.
> 
> This morning when he woke up he drank coffee and gave me a dirty look when I went into the kitchen. He got up to leave and I figured another day of us avoiding each other. But he stopped and asked how this happened? How did our relationship come to this that we hurt each other so much? I didn’t know how to answer him. I’m just now starting therapy to figure out why I did this to us. There’s got to be something self destructive about me that caused it. I can’t really blame him. He’s never been abusive or distant. Even now when he gets angry with me and yells I never feel scared of him. I feel like he’s venting his anger at me.
> 
> I told him I wish I knew what is wrong with me that I’d do this and that while I know my words mean nothing to him I truly am sorry for hurting him. He apologized for the name he’s called me when he’s angry. He said he alternates his mood every day. He said one day he wants to throw me out and divorce me and the next he wants to hug me and tell me we can work this out. He cried while he told me this. He said he’s in hell because even though he wants to hate me he still loves me and he doesn’t know what to do. He doesn’t know if he’ll ever trust me again but he’s also afraid he’ll never find anyone again or be able to move on with his life.
> 
> So he said that he is going to see a therapist starting January 10 to try to sort through all his feelings. He also said he really isn’t sure if he wants me to move out and he didn’t really mean he wanted me out in a week. That’s the thing. He’s got all this anger and resentment for me right now but he’s still worried about me being able to find a place to live. He also told me that he hasn’t really told his family what’s going on yet. They just think he and I are fighting right now. He feels like if we ever do try to work this out that he doesn’t want his family, especially his brothers, to know because they’ll never be able to look at me the same and that night damage our relationship even more.
> 
> So we ended up actually talking calmly for nearly an hour this morning. I told him about my parents and he seemed genuinely hurt that they thought he was mad at them for something. He really does love my parents like his own. His father is gone and he’s never been particularly close to his mom.
> 
> He again told me he’s spoken to an attorney in order to know his rights in case he decides to move on. He suggested I do the same thing. I said I’d look into it. I was thinking of talking to my parent’s attorney about this. Like right now we’re being civil but you never know how things scam change. While I’m not in the mood to take things like his pension or house there are things we share that we’ll need to work out if we do split.
> 
> He told me last night he just went to the bar with his brothers and they dropped him off right at our house. I said I feel like I don’t have the right to ask him what he’s been up to and I’d understand if he felt like he needed to get back at me with some woman. Of course I don’t want him to but how can I tell him not to? I have no moral high ground at all when it comes to that. My husband is a really attractive guy and I know he’d have no problem finding a willing woman. But he said he’s got enough woman problems in his life right now without involving another one. And he actually for one brief second gave me his patented smart ass smirk that I’ve loved since the day I met him and despaired of ever seeing again.
> 
> So as he went to get dressed to go out and clean the garage he told me that no matter how this year works out between us that he does love me. I told him I love him too. We agreed that we need to talk like this at least once a week. There was no kiss or hug and I still feel like we are a long, long way away from him ever being affectionate toward me. Maybe that will never happen again but I think he got a lot off his chest.
> 
> A lot of people asked about my AP and his fiancé. I did message her on Facebook. I also got a response from her. Not very polite and she had a lot of choice things to say to me but the gist of it was that they had already ended their engagement because she suspected him of sleeping with someone else and that she also suspected us from the time we worked together. She then said my husband had also contacted her and that I don’t deserve him and she hoped he leaves me. So there’s that.


Thanks for the update. What you two are going through is very normal for infidelity. As rough as it is, things could be a lot worse. You are both handling this in a fairly healthy way though I hope your husband lays off the drinking.
It's understandable to cope with the pain but it can consume you if you don't get a healthier way to deal with it. (Raises hand).


----------



## ConanHub

Beach123 said:


> What’s your plan to move right away? He asked you on Christmas - to move within a week. Why haven’t you honored his request?


Asked and answered (so lawyers speak).

If you would read further in her update, you would see he was speaking in anger, possibly drunk anger, but soon after, they had a good conversation where he communicated his emotions to her and told her he doesn't really want her to move in a week.


----------



## ConanHub

BigDaddyNY said:


> I wish there was a way to get every single person that has infidelity on the brain to read this thread. You can go from being the love of someone's life to a cheap *** so easily, while being so easily avoidable too. Was that one orgasm worth your entire marriage?


On reflection, the answer is usually no. Forewarned is forearmed. Unfortunately, many aren't.


----------



## Butforthegrace

Your thread is curious to me. This is a forum of anonymous strangers, all of whom have been impacted by infidelity. In that way, it is a reservoir of crowdsourced wisdom about infidelity. Most posters who come here seek advice. When it comes to healing from infidelity, details matter. For this reason, most threads take on a pattern of Q&A, where contributing posters ask questions of the OP, the OP answers, then contributors offer advice, etc. 

What I find odd about your thread is your steadfast refusal to answer questions. This is of course your prerogative, but it sort of cancels the purpose of even having a thread here at all. If you won't answer questions, well-meaning posters can't offer advice. Instead, your thread becomes a place where you post updates with cherry-picked facts you want us to know, and posters pontificate about you, some telling you how awful you are, and others offering a helpful attaboy.

The vacillation between love and hate that your BH is experience, that is a normal incident of a newly minted BS. It's so normal it is called "the rollercoaster". You should expect that to continue for quite some time, possibly even a year. The extremes of emotion, and the unbearable passion of it all, often serve as a node in which a BH decides to divorce.

As the rollercoaster begins to even out, your BH will likely begin to enter into what is often called the "Plane of Lethal Flatness". In that phase, it gradually begins to dawn on him that, as long as you remain married, your AP and "your boyfriend" as your BH refers to the AP will be permanent plus ones in your marriage. For as long as you remain married. The realization of that stark reality is often a second node when a BH decides to divorce.

The only way to get though those two nodes is by (a) making it crystal clear that you have figured out what is messed up in your moral compass that led you to decide to have sex with another man, and fixed that, made yourself into somebody new, somebody your BH would choose to marry, and (b) as to that ephemeral matter of the heart, in some way your BH's heart must believe, at an emotional level, that your desire and passion burn for him more that it ever burned for the AP. There is no formula to this. The heart believes what it believes.

I am curious about the financial piece. You said that your financial life is better now than it was. But is that because one of the two of you is now making more money? Or did you finally pay off a long term debt? Or was one of you a spendthrift, but now is not pissing money away? I ask this specific question because if your BH perceives you as the frivolous spender, this is going to inflame the pain he feels due to the infidelity. Further, if he believes that to be the case, what have you done (or what can you do) to disabuse him of this impression of you?


----------



## ConanHub

Butforthegrace said:


> Your thread is curious to me. This is a forum of anonymous strangers, all of whom have been impacted by infidelity. In that way, it is a reservoir of crowdsourced wisdom about infidelity. Most posters who come here seek advice. When it comes to healing from infidelity, details matter. For this reason, most threads take on a pattern of Q&A, where contributing posters ask questions of the OP, the OP answers, then contributors offer advice, etc.
> 
> What I find odd about your thread is your steadfast refusal to answer questions. This is of course your prerogative, but it sort of cancels the purpose of even having a thread here at all. If you won't answer questions, well-meaning posters can't offer advice. Instead, your thread becomes a place where you post updates with cherry-picked facts you want us to know, and posters pontificate about you, some telling you how awful you are, and others offering a helpful attaboy.
> 
> The vacillation between love and hate that your BH is experience, that is a normal incident of a newly minted BS. It's so normal it is called "the rollercoaster". You should expect that to continue for quite some time, possibly even a year. The extremes of emotion, and the unbearable passion of it all, often serve as a node in which a BH decides to divorce.
> 
> As the rollercoaster begins to even out, your BH will likely begin to enter into what is often called the "Plane of Lethal Flatness". In that phase, it gradually begins to dawn on him that, as long as you remain married, your AP and "your boyfriend" as your BH refers to the AP will be permanent plus ones in your marriage. For as long as you remain married. The realization of that stark reality is often a second node when a BH decides to divorce.
> 
> The only way to get though those two nodes is by (a) making it crystal clear that you have figured out what is messed up in your moral compass that led you to decide to have sex with another man, and fixed that, made yourself into somebody new, somebody your BH would choose to marry, and (b) as to that ephemeral matter of the heart, in some way your BH's heart must believe, at an emotional level, that your desire and passion burn for him more that it ever burned for the AP. There is no formula to this. The heart believes what it believes.
> 
> I am curious about the financial piece. You said that your financial life is better now than it was. But is that because one of the two of you is now making more money? Or did you finally pay off a long term debt? Or was one of you a spendthrift, but now is not pissing money away? I ask this specific question because if your BH perceives you as the frivolous spender, this is going to inflame the pain he feels due to the infidelity. Further, if he believes that to be the case, what have you done (or what can you do) to disabuse him of this impression of you?


She answers questions that aren't dirty details about the other man and the sex she had with him.

She did answer her husband about those so we really don't need to know.

If she had posted that that was a problem she was having between her husband and herself, you would have a point.


----------



## DallasCowboyFan

I suspect if you can find intimacy soon (hugs, kisses, sex), you have a good chance of working this out. I can guarantee you he misses the intimacy too. It will open a whole new can of worms - he will think about you sleeping with the other guy for a while. I can tell from what he told you that he really misses the way things were. It can take a lot of time to heal and you have to rebuild trust, but I think there is a chance.


----------



## blackclover3

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> I DON’T have to answer any questions for internet strangers that I don’t feel like they have the need to know.


you are absolutely right - you don't have to answer anyone. in fact, you don't have to be here but you are, and the community is happy to help. your name, place, and account is anonymous. answering some of questions will help provide the people who volunteered their time to help you with a full picture. not only that, but the information your provide will help future members.

respectfully said and please don't get me wrong. the way you have been answering many here and your attitude speak a lot about you. 

I don't think you are 100% remorseful (I can be wrong) - you are just afraid losing your lifestyle, a great husband ( more of a jealousy of him being with another woman), and your reputation with friends and family. 

your husband is going through a roller coaster of emotions - a guy marked on his face and his dignity - a woman who trusted as much as his dying mother stabbed him in the back - he wants to go back to his safe home but it is no longer safe.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Butforthegrace said:


> Your thread is curious to me. This is a forum of anonymous strangers, all of whom have been impacted by infidelity. In that way, it is a reservoir of crowdsourced wisdom about infidelity. Most posters who come here seek advice. When it comes to healing from infidelity, details matter. For this reason, most threads take on a pattern of Q&A, where contributing posters ask questions of the OP, the OP answers, then contributors offer advice, etc.
> 
> What I find odd about your thread is your steadfast refusal to answer questions. This is of course your prerogative, but it sort of cancels the purpose of even having a thread here at all. If you won't answer questions, well-meaning posters can't offer advice. Instead, your thread becomes a place where you post updates with cherry-picked facts you want us to know, and posters pontificate about you, some telling you how awful you are, and others offering a helpful attaboy.
> 
> The vacillation between love and hate that your BH is experience, that is a normal incident of a newly minted BS. It's so normal it is called "the rollercoaster". You should expect that to continue for quite some time, possibly even a year. The extremes of emotion, and the unbearable passion of it all, often serve as a node in which a BH decides to divorce.
> 
> As the rollercoaster begins to even out, your BH will likely begin to enter into what is often called the "Plane of Lethal Flatness". In that phase, it gradually begins to dawn on him that, as long as you remain married, your AP and "your boyfriend" as your BH refers to the AP will be permanent plus ones in your marriage. For as long as you remain married. The realization of that stark reality is often a second node when a BH decides to divorce.
> 
> The only way to get though those two nodes is by (a) making it crystal clear that you have figured out what is messed up in your moral compass that led you to decide to have sex with another man, and fixed that, made yourself into somebody new, somebody your BH would choose to marry, and (b) as to that ephemeral matter of the heart, in some way your BH's heart must believe, at an emotional level, that your desire and passion burn for him more that it ever burned for the AP. There is no formula to this. The heart believes what it believes.
> 
> I am curious about the financial piece. You said that your financial life is better now than it was. But is that because one of the two of you is now making more money? Or did you finally pay off a long term debt? Or was one of you a spendthrift, but now is not pissing money away? I ask this specific question because if your BH perceives you as the frivolous spender, this is going to inflame the pain he feels due to the infidelity. Further, if he believes that to be the case, what have you done (or what can you do) to disabuse him of this impression of you?


. 

The questions I’ve refused to answer are of the sexual variety. I fail to see why one commenter needed to know if I’ve ever done anal sex with my husband and if I swallow. And if I don’t do that for my husband did I do it for the other guy. That’s not someone looking to share their knowledge. That’s a pervert looking for a cheap thrill.

And yes I finally paid off a lot of credit card debt that I had. My spending was a major issue between us.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> .
> 
> The questions I’ve refused to answer are of the sexual variety. I fail to see why one commenter needed to know if I’ve ever done anal sex with my husband and if I swallow. And if I don’t do that for my husband did I do it for the other guy. That’s not someone looking to share their knowledge. That’s a pervert looking for a cheap thrill.
> 
> And yes I finally paid off a lot of credit card debt that I had. My spending was a major issue between us.


That person was giving examples of forms of sex that women commonly refuse their husbands, but in the abandonment of an affair, offer their POSOMs.

What he wanted to establish was a question that comes up with betrayed husbands specifically often. Did you do anything sexually with the POSOM that you haven't done or have been hesitant to do with your husband?

You see, if you have, this is a further insult to your husband and makes reconciliation even less likely.

It's been established you slept with another man. The following sexual factors will progressively lesson chances of reconciliation:

If you did not make the POSOM wear a condom.
If you did sexual acts you denied your husband before the affair or were hesitant to do with him.
And so on.

The person who asked the question just wanted to know the extent of the sexual contact you had with your AP as it is pertinent and has bearing on your ultimate chances of R.


----------



## GoldenR

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> How could I imagine trying to take that from him?


We see it happen here all the time in the stories the BSes tell. The WS plays nice, says they want to reconcile, they only love their BS and they don't know why they cheated. They'll spend every day making it up to them. Then the BS decides s/he is done and the WS goes after EVERYTHING. 99 times out of 100 it's the WWs that do this.

Just bc you're the WS that's here telling the story, you're still the WS. And if anything you've shown that you DO have it in you to destroy your husband. I hope you stay true to your writings here.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Dictum Veritas said:


> That person was giving forms of sex that women commonly refuse their husbands, but in the abandonment of an affair, offer their POSOMs.
> 
> What he wanted to establish was a question that comes up with betrayed husbands specifically often. Did you do anything sexually with the POSOM that you haven't done or have been hesitant to do with your husband?
> 
> You see, if you have, this is a further insult to your husband and makes reconciliation even less likely.
> 
> It's been established you slept with another man. The following sexual factors will progressively lesson chances of reconciliation:
> 
> If you did not make the POSOM wear a condom.
> If you did sexual acts you denied your husband before the affair or were hesitant to do with him.
> And so on.
> 
> The person who asked the question just wanted to know the extent of the sexual contact you had with your AP as it is pertinent and has bearing on your ultimate chances of R.


And my husband had similar questions which I answered honestly. I don’t see why anyone online needs to know the intimate details. The fact is that I refused the other man oral sex. He tried to do it to me and he was so bad at it I told him to stop and we ended up engaging in very brief and very bad intercourse. So I ended up probably ruining my marriage for bad sex. Telling my husband this didn’t seem to make him feel any better. I hope hearing this makes all the curious people on here happy.


----------



## 2asdf2

I am sure we could have done without those details. Sorry you felt compelled to give them.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> And my husband had similar questions which I answered honestly. I don’t see why anyone online needs to know the intimate details. The fact is that I refused the other man oral sex. He tried to do it to me and he was so bad at it I told him to stop and we ended up engaging in very brief and very bad intercourse. So I ended up probably ruining my marriage for bad sex. Telling my husband this didn’t seem to make him feel any better. I hope hearing this makes all the curious people on here happy.


None of this makes us happy. What would have made us happy is if you had no reason to ask for our opinions or help. You asked for help in a very personal matter to you. The answers to some very personal questions will make it possible to give you detailed opinions and answers.

Taking a negative and defensive stance with us because of those questions only shows us that you have that as part of your character. That you can put your claws out by simply assuming that we are curious or here for some sort of perverted jollies, that you can do the same with your husband if he in pain asks or says something to get your back up. This you should avoid at all cost.

The fact that the sex was not good is actually to your benefit, but no-one would blame your husband for not believing it, even if it were the truth. Since you didn't address it, I can only assume the POSOM did not wear a condom and that he did finish inside you. This to many betrayed husbands is the final nail in the coffin of the marriage and something they cannot make peace with, even years down the line. That their wives brought the DNA of another man into their house and beds and their intimate proximity inside their very bodies, risking, even if only very remotely, a pregnancy is not something that many men can ever forgive.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

2asdf2 said:


> I believe the original commenter found a good way to make his comments without having the benefit of an answer to her questions.
> That shows that it can be done while respecting the wishes of the original poster.


True, but not everyone is equally eloquent or attuned to nuance, yet I still would not attribute the poster who asked more crudely's motives to any kind of malice.


----------



## 2asdf2

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> .
> 
> The questions I’ve refused to answer are of the sexual variety. I fail to see why one commenter needed to know if I’ve ever done anal sex with my husband and if I swallow. And if I don’t do that for my husband did I do it for the other guy. That’s not someone looking to share their knowledge. That’s a pervert looking for a cheap thrill.
> 
> And yes I finally paid off a lot of credit card debt that I had. My spending was a major issue between us.


 
I believe the original commenter found a good way to make his comments without having the benefit of an answer to her questions.
That shows that it can be done while respecting the wishes of the original poster.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

Dictum Veritas said:


> None of this makes us happy. What would have made us happy is if you had no reason to ask for our opinions or help. You asked for help in a very personal matter to you. The answers to some very personal questions will make it possible to give you detailed opinions and answers.
> 
> Taking a negative and defensive stance with us because of those questions only shows us that you have that as part of your character. That you can put your claws out by simply assuming that we are curious or here for some sort of perverted jollies, that you can do the same with your husband if he in pain asks or says something to get your back up. This you should avoid at all cost.
> 
> The fact that the sex was not good is actually to your benefit, but no-one would blame your husband for not believing it, even if it were the truth. Since you didn't address it, I can only assume the POSOM did not wear a condom and that he did finish inside you. This to many betrayed husbands is the final nail in the coffin of the marriage and something they cannot make peace with, even years down the line. That their wives brought the DNA of another man into their house and beds and their intimate proximity inside their very bodies, risking, even if only very remotely, a pregnancy is not something that many men can ever forgive.


Why on earth would you assume I didn’t make him wear a condom? My own husband has since we’ve been together because we weren’t ready for children yet. Again, I didn’t see why that detail needed to be known by people on here. And yes my husband asked this and yes I told him that we used protection.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

2asdf2 said:


> I am sure we could have done without those details. Sorry you felt compelled to give them.


Well people are making it seem like I’m dishonest for not giving more intimate details which are horribly embarrassing for me to give to internet strangers who for some reason feel entitled to them.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Why on earth would you assume I didn’t make him wear a condom? My own husband has since we’ve been together because we weren’t ready for children yet. Again, I didn’t see why that detail needed to be known by people on here. And yes my husband asked this and yes I told him that we used protection.


You see the assumptions that we make in the vacuum of information. You cannot really blame us for the assumptions because some of us lived through the worst case scenarios. Again, this bides better towards your chances for R, but again, you have to keep in mind that your husband has no reason to believe you and since he also has to wear a condom with you (not healthy inside of a marriage IMO) it only places him on a level of parity with the POSOM, which kind of negates the good it did you.


----------



## ConanHub

blackclover3 said:


> you are absolutely right - you don't have to answer anyone. in fact, you don't have to be here but you are, and the community is happy to help. your name, place, and account is anonymous. answering some of questions will help provide the people who volunteered their time to help you with a full picture. not only that, but the information your provide will help future members.
> 
> respectfully said and please don't get me wrong. the way you have been answering many here and your attitude speak a lot about you.
> 
> I don't think you are 100% remorseful (I can be wrong) - you are just afraid losing your lifestyle, a great husband ( more of a jealousy of him being with another woman), and your reputation with friends and family.
> 
> your husband is going through a roller coaster of emotions - a guy marked on his face and his dignity - a woman who trusted as much as his dying mother stabbed him in the back - he wants to go back to his safe home but it is no longer safe.


So you have determined she isn't 100% remorseful because she won't answer specific sex questions to internet folks that she already answered her husband about????

I've been studying female infidelity for a long time and this is a good one.

She did it once, regretted it and outed herself and wouldn't gouge him in a divorce.

I'm really not sure why you think she isn't remorseful and what facts you are basing that opinion on.?


----------



## ConanHub

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> And my husband had similar questions which I answered honestly. I don’t see why anyone online needs to know the intimate details. The fact is that I refused the other man oral sex. He tried to do it to me and he was so bad at it I told him to stop and we ended up engaging in very brief and very bad intercourse. So I ended up probably ruining my marriage for bad sex. Telling my husband this didn’t seem to make him feel any better. I hope hearing this makes all the curious people on here happy.


Please don't feed the squirrels.😉


----------



## Laurentium

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Well people are making it seem like I’m dishonest for not giving more intimate details which are horribly embarrassing for me to give to internet strangers who for some reason feel entitled to them.


Just put those people on ignore.


----------



## ConanHub

Dictum Veritas said:


> You see the assumptions that we make in the vacuum of information. You cannot really blame us for the assumptions because some of us lived through the worst case scenarios. Again, this bides better towards your chances for R, but again, you have to keep in mind that your husband has no reason to believe you and since he also has to wear a condom with you (not healthy inside of a marriage IMO) it only places him on a level of parity with the POSOM, which kind of negates the good it did you.


Come on dude. Birth control is totally their choice...


----------



## 2asdf2

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Well people are making it seem like I’m dishonest for not giving more intimate details which are horribly embarrassing for me to give to internet strangers who for some reason feel entitled to them.


Butforthegrace found a way to comment without being intrusive. Others can too. Don't consent to anything you don't want to do.


----------



## 2asdf2

Dictum Veritas said:


> You see the assumptions that we make in the vacuum of information. You cannot really blame us for the assumptions because some of us lived through the worst case scenarios. Again, this bides better towards your chances for R, but again, you have to keep in mind that your husband has no reason to believe you and since he also has to wear a condom with you (not healthy inside of a marriage IMO) it only places him on a level of parity with the POSOM, which kind of negates the good it did you.


In the absence of information one can speculate and provide the rationale for the speculation. If the OP is reluctant to provide details that are salacious, one can speculate that she is embarrased or ashamed. Not necessarily that she is deceptive.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

2asdf2 said:


> In the absence of information one can speculate and provide the rationale for the speculation. If the OP is reluctant to provide details that are salacious, one can speculate that she is embarrased or ashamed. Not necessarily that she is deceptive.


I have spent my life programming computers and some things do not work in the absence or acquired information. Not everyone is geared to think in the same way.

I agree that OP has the right to withhold information, but she also has the right to know that that would hinder the ability of many to advise effectively.


----------



## 2asdf2

Dictum Veritas said:


> You see the assumptions that we make in the vacuum of information. You cannot really blame us for the assumptions because some of us lived through the worst case scenarios. Again, this bides better towards your chances for R, but again, you have to keep in mind that your husband has no reason to believe you and since he also has to wear a condom with you (not healthy inside of a marriage IMO) it only places him on a level of parity with the POSOM, which kind of negates the good it did you.





Dictum Veritas said:


> I have spent my life programming computers and some things do not work in the absence or acquired information. Not everyone is geared to think in the same way.
> 
> I agree that OP has the right to withhold information, but she also has the right to know that that would hinder the ability of many to advise effectively.


I believe the OP has shown sufficient acumen for her to be aware of the "right to know" you have just stated.


----------



## Lost_And_Wandering

ConanHub said:


> Come on dude. Birth control is totally their choice...


Again I have to give intimate details that aren’t any of your business to defend myself. Most birth control gives me migraines. We’ve used condoms because financially we weren’t ready for children. Would you rather us have kids we can’t afford? In the last year I’ve found a patch that doesn’t cause me uncomfortable side effects. But we still used condoms as a backup. @ConanHub this wasn’t directed at you. I’m sorry but I accidentally replied this to you. I am very frustrated with this whole forum right now as it seems people aren’t happy unless I divulge things to them that I feel are best left between my husband and myself.


----------



## 2asdf2

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Again I have to give intimate details that aren’t any of your business to defend myself. Most birth control gives me migraines. We’ve used condoms because financially we weren’t ready for children. Would you rather us have kids we can’t afford? In the last year I’ve found a patch that doesn’t cause me uncomfortable side effects. But we still used condoms as a backup.


You don't have to defend yourself. Don't feel hurt by the subtle bullying some people may be employing. 

If you feel bullied, report the post to the moderators.


----------



## Fly With Me

Take the good and ignore the rest. If it stops being helpful then move on. Although I do hope some of this is helpful and you stick around as many of us are now invested in your story and rooting for you. 

I would reiterate what someone else said higher up about using this time to do some intensive counselling or inner work/journalling so you can tell him why you did it and what steps you are taking to be a safe person for him (or whoever you end up with in the future) so you never ever make this mistake again. 

I would also find ways to show him how much you miss him (non manipulatively of course). Maybe write your feelings during this time in a journal so you can give it to him when he is ready. There is something powerful about reading someone's deeply felt emotions even long after.

I hope you find the answers in yourself that will make you and your husband or you and your next partner much happier and more fulfilled.


----------



## Landofblue

Hi L&W

I don’t care what the specific answers are. The only question that matters on this subject is “did you do anything with or for your AP, that you have never or have refused to do with your husband”.

It could be as simple as my husband always wanted me to go to an NBA game and I’ve always refused but I did when the AP asked. Or it could be as graphic as the sexual acts that have been described or Others.

Truth is, we don’t need to know the specifics. But it does help to know if the situation exists. If so. We can help advise you on how to work through that as much as it is possible.

So if there is nothing of that sort than no need to discuss, but there are some very common situations where the wayward spouse has made such a choice that shows that they put their APs desires over any that the betrayed spouse ever has had. That is very tough to come back from.

There are several approaches in these cases with the most obvious being not onlydoing the act, whatever it is, but by cranking it up exponentially.

but whatever steps you take, you have to know, that if something was on the table for the AP, but off the table for your partner, then it will definitely be seen as you preferring the AP and care about their wants over your spouses.


----------



## ConanHub

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Again I have to give intimate details that aren’t any of your business to defend myself. Most birth control gives me migraines. We’ve used condoms because financially we weren’t ready for children. Would you rather us have kids we can’t afford? In the last year I’ve found a patch that doesn’t cause me uncomfortable side effects. But we still used condoms as a backup. @ConanHub this wasn’t directed at you. I’m sorry but I accidentally replied this to you. I am very frustrated with this whole forum right now as it seems people aren’t happy unless I divulge things to them that I feel are best left between my husband and myself.


Well I'm pulling for both you and your husband.

I'm not pro reconciliation or divorce but I am pro health.

While I'm not justifying or excusing your behavior concerning your infidelity in anyway, you really are one of the best case scenarios and you have a shot at winning your husband back..

Please don't feel you owe anyone sexual details on this thread. Sometimes it's relevant but not in your case as you have already discussed it with your husband which is a good credit in your favor.

When a betrayed husband comes here, the question of sexual details usually becomes more relevant.

I hope you stay and continue to post while ignoring what isn't helpful.

This barbarian thinks you two have a fair chance and regardless of the outcome, I wish you two well.


----------



## LisaDiane

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> And my husband had similar questions which I answered honestly. I don’t see why anyone online needs to know the intimate details. The fact is that I refused the other man oral sex. He tried to do it to me and he was so bad at it I told him to stop and we ended up engaging in very brief and very bad intercourse. So I ended up probably ruining my marriage for bad sex. Telling my husband this didn’t seem to make him feel any better. I hope hearing this makes all the curious people on here happy.


No one on here is entertained by your situation and happy with the details. The only reason anyone asks for details is because they want a clear picture of what you did and what you told your husband, so they can advise you on how he might feel (based on how they felt when they went through it) and what else you need to do and what your chances are with him.

EVERYONE who posts to you from experience is feeling pained within themselves by the memories of what they went through. NO ONE is happy to hear the stories and have to give advice to people who are dealing with adultery.


----------



## ConanHub

LisaDiane said:


> No one on here is entertained by your situation and happy with the details. The only reason anyone asks for details is because they want a clear picture of what you did and what you told your husband, so they can advise you on how he might feel (based on how they felt when they went through it) and what else you need to do and what your chances are with him.
> 
> EVERYONE who posts to you from experience is feeling pained within themselves by the memories of what they went through. NO ONE is happy to hear the stories and have to give advice to people who are dealing with adultery.


Some of these posters aren't actually reading her replies or thinking about her situation clearly at all.

I won't assign malice to their posts but certainly ignorance that isn't helping this particular situation.


----------



## Butforthegrace

_"Yes I finally paid off a lot of credit card debt that I had. My spending was a major issue between us."_

Spending may be the top, or at least one of the top reasons couples divorce nowadays. There is even a commonly used term, "financial infidelity".

The dynamic in a married couple around spending hinges on the fact that they are in the same financial boat together. The low-spending spouse sees him/herself as constantly bailing water out of the boat; and he/her perceives the high-spending spouse to be drilling more holes in the boat. This tension is unetnable. It leads the low-spending spouse to feel frustrated, afraid, vulnerable, and alone. Ultimately, the low-spending spouse often stops communicating, and views the high-spending spouse with fear and mistrust.

I say all of that because a large percentage of sexual infidelity is committed by a spouse who feels scorned, mistrusted, and ultimately unloved (or at least unwanted) by the BS. Sometimes we find that the WS is correct in feeling this way. I suspect was the case in your marriage. I wonder if you can understand that, in your case, the sexual infidelity is salt in the wound already created by the financial infidelity. Your BS now has two bedrock reasons to mistrust and fear injury from you.

I don't think you and your BH can heal your marriage without getting on the same financial page. Some people want to live frugally and save as much as possible with a goal of early retirement. Some don't mind splurging and carrying some credit card debt, understanding that increases likelihood of needing to work until 70 or beyond. There is also the fact that, because of the high interest rates charged on most credit cards, carrying credit card debt effectively increases the cost of every purchase by a lot, sometimes even more than doubling it; low spenders view this as a species of lunacy or even ignorance/stupidity (saving and buying the same thing in cash, later, is way less expensive). If the debt was for purchases that the BS perceives to be frivolous, the chasm of perspective becomes even wider.

My gut all along was that, in your case, the bad feelings that led you to cheat, and the kibbles you were getting from your cheating, had their roots in this dynamic. Just paying off the CC debt, that's a band-aid. It doesn't address the cancer that begins to grow in a marriage with this type of spending dialectic. My strongest possible suggestion is to figure out whether you and your BH can get on the same page on this specific issue. A person who is not materialistic and is an instinctive saver cannot abide a life with a roller coaster of CC debt. Fundamentally, running up CC debt is living beyond one's means. Period. If you two cannot get on the same page on this issue, it is likely the same emotional dynamic that led to your cheating will grow again in your marriage. 

You're both young. No kids. It may be that, though there is love, the two of you are fundamentally incompatible in terms of an actual partnered relationship. Marriage is as much a business partnership as it is a love bond. You need both. The plan is to grow old together, meaning you need to have a financial vision for how you will sustain yourself in old age. Financial incompatibility is anathema to the business partnership aspect.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ConanHub said:


> Some of these posters aren't actually reading her replies or thinking about her situation clearly at all.
> 
> I won't assign malice to their posts but certainly ignorance that isn't helping this particular situation.


Those who do not probe the narratives of a wayward with a very critical eye has clearly never personally dealt with one from the perspective of a BS. OP may be an atypical WW, she definitely presents as such, but then again, how do waywards normally present as?

Probing is not out of malice, it is also not grounded in the lack of presented information, nor is it in ignorance, but from the experience gained in how to deconstruct façades commonly presented by the wayward in order to see what stands as truth and what crumbles as a lie.

Only the foolish would not probe what is presented by a wayward as their default defense is to lie.

OP may be the exception, but I refuse to take any admonishment for healthy skepticism and methods employed to probe the veracity of what others simply accept at face value.


----------



## jlg07

Dictum Veritas said:


> I have spent my life programming computers and some things do not work in the absence or acquired information. Not everyone is geared to think in the same way.
> 
> I agree that OP has the right to withhold information, but she also has the right to know that that would hinder the ability of many to advise effectively.


I think a simple "I didn't do anything with AP that I haven't done with my husband" The actual details DO NOT matter for what she is asking. Her H knows them -- that is sufficient.


----------



## ConanHub

Dictum Veritas said:


> Those who do not probe the narratives of a wayward with a very critical eye has clearly never personally dealt with one from the perspective of a BS. OP may be an atypical WW, she definitely presents as such, but then again, how do waywards normally present as?
> 
> Probing is not out of malice, it is also not grounded in the lack of presented information, nor is it in ignorance, but from the experience gained in how to deconstruct façades commonly presented by the wayward in order to see what stands as truth and what crumbles as a lie.
> 
> Only the foolish would not probe what is presented by a wayward as their default defense is to lie.
> 
> OP may be the exception, but I refuse to take any admonishment for healthy skepticism and methods employed to probe the veracity of what others simply accept at face value.


This barbarian is willing to hope some of the posts aren't malicious or salacious in nature but I doubt all of them are and the rest are done in ignorance in my humble opinion as this issue has not been a point of contention between OP and her husband and everyone continuing to ignore that fact is not helping at all.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

jlg07 said:


> I think a simple "I didn't do anything with AP that I haven't done with my husband" The actual details DO NOT matter for what she is asking. Her H knows them -- that is sufficient.


What raised a red flag to me is that OP did not provide even that basic confirmation, but instead jumped to outrage and a position of offense. This is what my ex-WW did whenever I hit a nerve in the period when I still only suspected something nefarious was afoot. After this she followed the tactic; deny, deny, deny.

I am not saying that OP is being untruthful, but simply that her reaction raised a red flag with me.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Dictum Veritas said:


> What raised a red flag to me is that OP did not provide even that basic confirmation, but instead jumped to outrage and a position of offense. This is what my ex-WW did whenever I hit a nerve in the period when I still only suspected something nefarious was afoot. After this she followed the tactic; deny, deny, deny.
> 
> I am not saying that OP is being untruthful, but simply that her reaction raised a red flag with me.


I'm guess OP is pretty raw from having to describe everything to her husband and she isn't willing to tolerate repeating it again and again to everyone here. Getting defensive here is one thing, but hopefully she isn't doing that with her husband and it doesn't sound like she is.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

You owe details to only one person OP and isn't a participant in this thread. You have a long and rough road ahead if he decides to try and forgive you. You have to essentially convince your husband to trust you again when you've already proven he can't. You're going to need to grow a very thick skin for the road ahead. Good luck.


----------



## Divinely Favored

.. 


ConanHub said:


> So you have determined she isn't 100% remorseful because she won't answer specific sex questions to internet folks that she already answered her husband about????
> 
> I've been studying female infidelity for a long time and this is a good one.
> 
> She did it once, regretted it and outed herself and wouldn't gouge him in a divorce.
> 
> I'm really not sure why you think she isn't remorseful and what facts you are basing that opinion on.?


I think the determination is due to her defensive attitude toward people trying to help her by asking questilns for info that might have a beating on whether her BH would want to reconcile. Her attitude kinda goes with the attitude of screaming hubby is violating her privacy if hubby looked at her phone.


----------



## Gabriel

You are doing what you need to do. It's up to him now, really.


----------



## Evinrude58

I’ve kinda backed off this one…… OP’s case doesn’t seem logical to me. She didn’t like the oral because he was bad at it, then let him have the rest…. Doesn’t make sense.
Only had sex with AP once, the came clean due to guilty conscience. Extremely rare.

Also begged the question of: What if the AP been great in bed? Would she have gone a different direction?

It seems to me if she were in love with her AP, whatever he did in bed would have been great. If she wasn’t, why betray her husband?

Then the situation with the condom use by a couple. It’s explained by OP but I still think it’s extremely rare.

None of this is making sense to me.

Maybe OP can explain why her feelings suddenly tanked for her AP in such a way she came clean with her husband and did a 180 toward him. My experience is once a woman loses feelings for her husband to the extent that she has sex with another man, her feelings for are husband are gone, whether things go haywire with the AP or not. Those feelings never return, hence the reason for failed reconciliation attempts. The BS can feel the loss of her feelings for him and he eventually can’t deal with it and divorces.

So OP,
I’m curious why: 
1 You broke things off with your AP, other than the bad sex?
2. If your feelings for him were of such low level that bad sex was a deal breaker, why betray your husband for him?
3 why betray your husband if you still loved him?

I don’t expect you to answer these questions, but they are likely things your own husband is wondering. It might be helpful for you to be able to answer them in a way that gives him the ability to wrap his head around the reason you did it, and give him some confidence in why you wouldn’t let it happen again…


----------



## 2asdf2

Evinrude58 said:


> I’ve kinda backed off this one…… OP’s case doesn’t seem logical to me. She didn’t like the oral because he was bad at it, then let him have the rest…. Doesn’t make sense.
> Only had sex with AP once, the came clean due to guilty conscience. Extremely rare.
> 
> Also begged the question of: What if the AP been great in bed? Would she have gone a different direction?
> 
> It seems to me if she were in love with her AP, whatever he did in bed would have been great. If she wasn’t, why betray her husband?
> 
> Then the situation with the condom use by a couple. It’s explained by OP but I still think it’s extremely rare.
> 
> None of this is making sense to me.
> 
> Maybe OP can explain why her feelings suddenly tanked for her AP in such a way she came clean with her husband and did a 180 toward him. My experience is once a woman loses feelings for her husband to the extent that she has sex with another man, her feelings for are husband are gone, whether things go haywire with the AP or not. Those feelings never return, hence the reason for failed reconciliation attempts. The BS can feel the loss of her feelings for him and he eventually can’t deal with it and divorces.
> 
> So OP,
> I’m curious why:
> 1 You broke things off with your AP, other than the bad sex?
> 2. If your feelings for him were of such low level that bad sex was a deal breaker, why betray your husband for him?
> 3 why betray your husband if you still loved him?
> 
> I don’t expect you to answer these questions, but they are likely things your own husband is wondering. It might be helpful for you to be able to answer them in a way that gives him the ability to wrap his head around the reason you did it, and give him some confidence in why you wouldn’t let it happen again…


In fact, the OP's very first post explains it fully.


----------



## ConanHub

Divinely Favored said:


> ..
> 
> 
> I think the determination is due to her defensive attitude toward people trying to help her by asking questilns for info that might have a beating on whether her BH would want to reconcile. Her attitude kinda goes with the attitude of screaming hubby is violating her privacy if hubby looked at her phone.


Yeah she isn't showing any of that to her husband.

I've seen her tell a couple of guys here the dirty sex details aren't their business and they aren't.

She did tell her husband those details and her attitude towards him is contrite and remorseful.

She owes no contriteness to guys that want to know if her AP put his dong up her butt.😉


----------



## Evinrude58

2asdf2 said:


> In fact, the OP's very first post explains it fully.


If her explanation is that she was feeling unloved and such because of a lack of intimacy and arguments over her spending habits, and rather than solve the spending habits by working as a teammate, she “planned a tryst” with another man……

That is going to be hard as heck for her husband to get over, because that kind of thinking is really messed up.

He’s going to feel that any time he has an argument with her and their bond is weakened, that she’s going to be susceptible to the advances of another man.

So my thoughts are that one way OP can straighten this mess out, is to show her husband through lasting financial responsibility and taking every opportunity he gives to show him she wants to be with him, wants his admiration, and wants his company alone—- those are things she can work towards. That is, if she wants to put in that kind of effort.

The planning part would be a huge hurdle for me personally to get past, along with the desire to be with another man when I had arguments “lost intimacy” with her over something like money.

I do believe that her husband is not done with her totally. He’s given her some room.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ConanHub said:


> Yeah she isn't showing any of that to her husband.
> 
> I've seen her tell a couple of guys here the dirty sex details aren't their business and they aren't.
> 
> She did tell her husband those details and her attitude towards him is contrite and remorseful.
> 
> She owes no contriteness to guys that want to know if her AP put his dong up her butt.😉


I can understand where they were coming from, but her defensive attitude....instead of asking why the ask that...she goes sideways at them. There is typically a reason for the madness and it seemed like she wanted to hear easy fixes instead of questions.

On her side of things they should have led with have you done yhi gs sexual with AP that you would not/have not for hubby. That would have better let her understand where the question was coming from.


----------



## 2asdf2

Evinrude58 said:


> If her explanation is that she was feeling unloved and such because of a lack of intimacy and arguments over her spending habits, and rather than solve the spending habits by working as a teammate, she “planned a tryst” with another man……
> 
> That is going to be hard as heck for her husband to get over, because that kind of thinking is really messed up.
> 
> He’s going to feel that any time he has an argument with her and their bond is weakened, that she’s going to be susceptible to the advances of another man.
> 
> So my thoughts are that one way OP can straighten this mess out, is to show her husband through lasting financial responsibility and taking every opportunity he gives to show him she wants to be with him, wants his admiration, and wants his company alone—- those are things she can work towards. That is, if she wants to put in that kind of effort.
> 
> The planning part would be a huge hurdle for me personally to get past, along with the desire to be with another man when I had arguments “lost intimacy” with her over something like money.
> 
> I do believe that her husband is not done with her totally. He’s given her some room.


My point is not about what her explanation is. My point is that in an earlier post to which I was replying, you made the statements:
=================================================
"So OP,
I’m curious why:
1 You broke things off with your AP, other than the bad sex?
2. If your feelings for him were of such low level that bad sex was a deal breaker, why betray your husband for him?
3 why betray your husband if you still loved him?

I don’t expect you to answer these questions, but they are likely things your own husband is wondering. It might be helpful for you to be able to answer them in a way that gives him the ability to wrap his head around the reason you did it, and give him some confidence in why you wouldn’t let it happen again…"
=================================================

Those statements are a gross distortion of the OP's recent postings and leads me to believe that you have not read the OP's initial posting, or understood the situation the OP is in. In that light, it also makes your comments unhelpful and damaging to the OP.


----------



## Evinrude58

My points may be a “gross distortion”, but if OP is going to straighten things out with her husband, and he has been told the things she’s mentioned, she can consider that my “distortions” of her thoughts are possibly similar to what her husband is thinking but likely won’t tell her. Maybe she can use what I’ve posted or put me on ignore. I have no dog in this…… Handling what has happened isn’t gonna get straightened out unless his worst fears are addressed. Either way, I’ll keep my thoughts to myself since you’re the expert.


----------



## masterofmasters

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.


so instead of OPENING YOUR MOUTH AND ACTUALLY COMMUNICATING this to your husband, you willingly gave yourself to another man...🤦‍♂️

most betrayed men have mind movies of the sexual acts. so now, i bet he's wondering if you only stopped at that one time because the sex was horrible.

for the perverts, next time, just ask if the WS did anything they refused their spouses. that's really all you need to know. and then, let your imaginations run wild. 🥴


----------



## Davit Bek

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> So I ended up probably ruining my marriage for bad sex. *Telling my husband this didn’t seem to make him feel any better. *I hope hearing this makes all the curious people on here happy.


I assure you, there is relief for your husband in knowing that the AP didn't offer you something he couldn't. And just as much, that you didn't share a part of you with the AP that you weren't willing to share with him. While there is not a scenario in which someone has been physically close to you that would make your husband feel ok, believe me those details make a bigger difference than you think.


----------



## Davit Bek

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Again I have to give intimate details that aren’t any of your business to defend myself. Most birth control gives me migraines. We’ve used condoms because financially we weren’t ready for children. Would you rather us have kids we can’t afford? In the last year I’ve found a patch that doesn’t cause me uncomfortable side effects. But we still used condoms as a backup. @ConanHub this wasn’t directed at you. I’m sorry but I accidentally replied this to you. *I am very frustrated with this whole forum right now as it seems people aren’t happy unless I divulge things to them that I feel are best left between my husband and myself.*


I completely understand your frustration and that this forum is far from perfect. I know it can be humiliating but remember you have the benefit of being anonymous. I want you to know that overall, you are getting better advice than even some marriage counselors will offer. The advice here isn't free. It came at the cost of many marriages ending, and the people learning. You might have to ignore some messages that are in poor taste or unhelpful. Allowing everyone's input is what makes this forum great and problematic at the same time.

My first advice is at the very least, address the point of the question but with as much detail as you're comfortable with (i.e I shared even fewer experiences with the AP than I do regularly with my husband, it was only once, quick, terrible, and there is no concern for STD vs. My husband knows the details). 

Second advice is to look at the aggregate of the responses. Each individual contributor could be speaking out of their own experience/preference, but if you take the general consensus, you will most likely have found your answer.

I hope you know that your forum is valuable beyond helping you, because it will help someone else in the future as well.


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## Ginger Sword

I just need to say something very obvious. You are a good person who has made a terrible mistake. Something every one of us has done. As soon as you did it you realised and it is to your credit you were overcome with guilt. I feel for you both and I hope your husband’s pain eases just a little. I for one am routing for you and hope he gives you another chance and he realises that perhaps your love is worth the pain.


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## gr8ful1

Ginger Sword said:


> You are a good person who has made a terrible mistake. Something every one of us has done


Every one of us huh? Speak for yourself.

A “mistake“ implies innocence and utterly downplays culpability. A “mistake” is forgetting your headphones on the plane. Adultery is a calculated series of *many *decisions, each fully intended to deceive and betray in the *worst *way possible. 

Try again.


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## Dictum Veritas

Ginger Sword said:


> I just need to say something very obvious. You are a good person who has made a *terrible mistake*. Something every one of us has done. As soon as you did it you realised and it is to your credit you were overcome with guilt. I feel for you both and I hope your husband’s pain eases just a little. I for one am routing for you and hope he gives you another chance and he realises that perhaps your love is worth the pain.


As someone who once stood somewhat in her husbands shoes, I have to ask, what was the mistake we all made? Was it to text lovingly to a man other to her husband? Was it to meet up with him behind her husband's back? Was it the first or last button she undid while sticking the knife in her husband's back? What in all these choices was the terrible mistake we all made?

I'm really curious, I've burned the toast, I've had a car accident when my attention was not on the road where it was meant to be, I've accidentally slipped into another woman while thinking about what to buy for dinner tonight. Oh, wait, the last one never happened.

Yes, OP might be one of the best WWs out there, but she didn't make a mistake. She chose to disrespect her husband and treat him worse than you would treat a salted slug in your garden. If he chooses to have any further and new relationship with her, that would be his gift to her, but lets be clear, no mistakes were made here, just cold, calculated and inhuman choices.


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## DallasCowboyFan

She made some bad decisions that she regrets. I don't understand persecuting her over sematics. She came here for advice and support in saving her marriage, if possible. I looked up the definition of the word mistake and it says "an action or judgement that is misguided or wrong". When someone has made emotional decisions and poor choices and wants to repent, it just seems wrong to go for blood


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## ConanHub

Ginger Sword said:


> I just need to say something very obvious. You are a good person who has made a terrible mistake. Something every one of us has done. As soon as you did it you realised and it is to your credit you were overcome with guilt. I feel for you both and I hope your husband’s pain eases just a little. I for one am routing for you and hope he gives you another chance and he realises that perhaps your love is worth the pain.


People are going to play with your semantics but I generally agree with your sentiments.


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## Jeffsmith35

Upon hearing OP's confession, I picture OP's husband thinking along the same lines as Charlton Heston at the end of that famous movie: "You maniacs! You blew it up! G-d damn you! G-d damn you all to hell!
In all seriousness, getting a divorce is the only solution to this situation. Only after doing that can OP know if he would be interested in marrying her again, with this new knowledge of what she's capable of.


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## Djani1979

I want to ask you,why do you want to countinue this marriage? You will be in a terrible marriage for years,your husband will be devastated for a long time,you wont have a normal relationship for years,maybe never. And maybe a year or two from now,he could not live like that and he divorces you then. So why do this to him? He loves you so he is torturing himself to stay married. But you should divorce him and make his life much easier. Realy,you both are young,no children,not long marriage,your best option is to divorce and live your lives without hate or pain or agony or hurt. I realy think that is your best option. And ypu dont truly love him,when you love somebody with pure love,you are willind to give your life for that pearson,and you are just unable to do things which you did. So why prolong this agony? Divorce your husband,set him fre so he can heal and find a wife who will truly love him and respect him,so he can be happy.


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## Davit Bek

DallasCowboyFan said:


> She made some bad decisions that she regrets. * I don't understand persecuting her over sematics. She came here for advice and support in saving her marriage, if possible*. I looked up the definition of the word mistake and it says "an action or judgement that is misguided or wrong". When someone has made *emotional decisions and poor choices and wants to repent, it just seems wrong to go for blood*


I think people were mostly replying to Ginger Sword's characterization as "good person who has made a horrible mistake" and pointing out how calling this a mistake is wording it extremely poorly. People tend to think of affairs as series of extremely selfish, cold, and often times unforgivable decisions, with no regard for anyone else involved. In this case, OP's actions had a negative impact on her parents, and the wonderful relationship her husband had with them. My heart breaks for OP's religious father. A good person won't cheat, as it is one of the most devastating acts to a family unit. 

OP has received a lot of great advice some of which is regarding what to do to increase the odds of saving her marriage, others how to ease the husband's pain, and then few geared towards what is the best course of action. I personally believe that the end goal shouldn't necessarily be to save the marriage, since that is no longer a marriage worth saving and it (with few exceptions) guarantees a miserable time for the other partner in the foreseeable future. 

I agree, however, that no one should "go for blood" or direct the anger from their experience towards the OP. The goal is to be helpful. And I give a lot of credit to the OP since she is doing her best and being forthright. How she has handled the situation isn't as common as one would hope for.


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## Marc878

SRCSRC said:


> My ex-wife had an affair early in our marriage. Thanks to an incompetent MC, I foolishly agreed to stay against my better judgment and desire. We had no children. OP truly seems remorseful. My ex-wife was a phony and wasn't truly remorseful. I was too scared to look closely at her behavior. Compound that with the MC, I regretfully stayed another painful six years only to experience more of her cheating.
> 
> It's good that the OP now realizes what she has done. But you can't unring a bell. While some BHs allegedly look past a WW's affair, I believe most of them simply white-knuckle it and go along with the program. Let's face it, the WW threw the husband and marriage under the bus. I simply don't know how or why a WH should accept something like that. It looks like the OP has truly learned her lesson and won't do such a thing to her BH or subsequent relationship partner ever again. That is truly a good thing. It is just sad that, again, you just can't unring that bell. The AP should pay. His fiance should have been advised of what he did. He got off scot-free and will most likely cheat on her in the future.


You aren’t the first and won’t be the last one to have a bad experience with a married counselor unfortunately. I’m glad the OP chose IC.


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## Marc878

OP hopefully you’ve learned from your AP’s x fiancé you weren’t his first and probably won’t be his last affair partner. It may not help with your current marriage but long term you need to learn some men are just there for the sex. Nothing more. Figure out why you were susceptible to his advances. He won’t be the last person like this you’ll encounter I doubt.


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## EssexUKMale

first. Having a affair is not a mistake. A mistake is a 1 off action that just happens. Having a affair is decision. A affair even more then 1 time is series of decisions! If you do not even have the ability to understand this then yes you are doomed. You was a terrible person for what you did. You are a terrible person now for still not understanding what you have done.

The best thing you could do is change and become a good person.

step 1. Realise just how cruel cheaters are. Understand you have been the worst person in his life ever. Because one else had the ability to betray him the way you have.

Step 2 use step 1 to find true remorse.

Step 3 support him. Accept the **** storm of emotions that you will face. And know you deserve them.

Step 4 have the decency to accept him going or staying is 100% his choice. Because you already made the decision to leave 100% on your own with a affair.

Step 5 if his decision is the pain is to much. Or that he can never trust you again. And decides to go you have the divorce on his terms. You burned his life down. You burned down your marriage. He deserves to get something out of it to help him heal.

On the flip side. If he decides to stay. You need to realise you will forever be the lucky one. You have something you will never deserve in him. Trust is like glass vase. If it’s broken you can repair it. But you will always see the cracks. You will never be fully trusted again. And don’t deserve to be.


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## QuietGuy

Lost, how are you doing?


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## EssexUKMale

Lost_And_Wandering said:


> Hello. I am a 30 year old woman. My husband is 33. We’ve been together for six years and married for three. Last year I made the single worst mistake of my life and had an affair with a male coworker. I have no excuse for what I did. It was wrong, selfish and self destructive. At the time I had excuses but I now realize that that is exactly what the were. Excuses.
> 
> My husband isn’t perfect, who is? He’s got flaws like any other person. But he’s been a loving partner, supportive and generous throughout our relationship. Last year we fought a lot over money. It was so bad for a while that we had no intimacy and I felt neglected and unloved.
> 
> I made the horribly selfish decision to seek comfort from a male coworker who had in the past made it clear to me that he was attracted to me. I’d always shut it down quickly before but at last year’s company Christmas party I was weak and I accepted his advances. We kissed after the party and began to text secretly to plan a tryst.
> 
> This is the worst part of my betrayal. I had weeks between that party and the time we slept together to come to my senses and not do this. But I went ahead anyway. It was exciting and he paid attention to me and flattered me and I was a weak and foolish person and played along.
> 
> Then we met at a hotel and had sex. I almost immediately regretted my decision. I felt dirty and cheap laying there in that hotel bed while my husband was off at work none the wiser. I actually started to cry right there and my coworker only worried that I’d tell my husband and he’d get beaten up or that his fiancé would find out.
> 
> After this happened I immediately rededicated myself to being a good wife. I opened up to my husband about my feelings of neglect. He apologized for making me feel that way. He was so open to us working things out it made me realize how poorly I’d treated him. I was wracked with guilt over what I’d done.
> 
> I vowed to myself that I’d be the best wife I could to him. And this past year has been wonderful on the surface. We’ve communicated so well, our financial situation has been much better. Things are good. But I’ve been stressed nonetheless. I’ve been suffering from guilt and remorse. Every time my husband would g out of his way to do something thoughtful or sweet I’d almost break down in tears.
> 
> A couple months ago I started getting shingles. I was told it could be from stress. My husband was so understanding and kind. He thought I was stressed from work. Right at the beginning of November he surprised me with a trip to a cabin for a long weekend to help me get my mind off my stress.
> 
> I just couldn’t take it and I broke down sobbing. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t continue to lie to him. I broke down and confessed everything to him.
> 
> At first he sat there in total shock. He asked if I was serious. I said yes. I was so sorry but yes. He sat there for a long time just not moving or saying anything. Then he asked me what he’d done to deserve this. I told him nothing. He didn’t deserve this at all. He asked me why. Why would I do this to him. To us. I apologize again and said I had no excuse. I was wrong and I had no excuse.
> 
> He got up and left the room and ignored me the rest of the night. When it was time for bed I came into the bedroom and he told me to go sleep in the guest room because he didn’t want to share a bed with me anymore. So I’ve been sleeping in the guest room ever since.
> 
> For the next two weeks he wouldn’t speak to me. Would barely look at me. He would eat with me. He’s been spending all his time at home either in the garage or down in the basement watching television. I honest think before this week we may have passed one of two sentences between us. I’ve been trying to give him space. I’m on eggshells because I’m terrified he’s going to tell me he wants a divorce and ask me to leave. (He owned the house before we met so I think he’d be within his rights to throw me out.)
> 
> On Monday this week I tried to start showing him nice gestures. I made him his favorite dinner Monday and when he came home from work he took one look at me and said he’d lost his appetite. He made a bowl of cereal and went down in the basement again.
> 
> Yesterday I asked him quietly if he was going to come with me Sunday to have our family picture taken for Christmas. This is a tradition in my family. My parents all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and all my nieces and nephews get together and we take a picture. I have had the heart to tell anyone in my family what I’ve done. I’m so ashamed of myself I can’t bring myself to do it.
> 
> He asked me why I thought he’d want to go anywhere with me and said maybe I should take my boyfriend instead. I said I don’t have a boyfriend I have a husband I love very much who I’d do anything in the world to keep. He said I’d do anything except keep my panties on while he’s not around. He was getting angrier and angrier. I’ve never really seen him so angry. I wasn’t exactly afraid of him though. It wasn’t like he was threatening me. He was just angry and the look of hatred he was giving me broke my heart.
> 
> I again told him how sorry I was and begged him to tell me what I can do to try and fix this. He just laughed and said it’s probably broken beyond repair at this point. I said don’t say that, please don’t say that. He asked me how the **** I thought he was supposed to feel. And I had some nerve to think he’d go get a picture taken with me.
> 
> I said it’s fine I’ll tell my family that you’re sick. He asked why I haven’t told my parents what I did. I said because I’m so ashamed of myself. He said maybe he’d come Sunday and tell them himself. I asked him please don’t. Then he said this: “Don’t worry I’m not going to broadcast to the world that my wife is a *ing **.”
> 
> It devastated me to hear him call me that. This man who I love so much called me a ***. I just stood there and took it though because he’s right to be angry with me. I cried and he told me to spare him the phony tears. Then he told me to get the **** out of his basement and leave him alone. Then he broke down crying. The only time I’ve ever seen him cry before was when his dad died two years ago. But there he sat sobbing. I put my hand on his shoulder and he told me not to touch him. Just the feeling of me touching him makes him sick.
> 
> Before I left I said quietly one more time that I do love him. That I’m sorry for hurting him and I’ll do whatever I can within my power to save our marriage. He just waved me off so I went upstairs. We haven’t spoken at all since. He’s been working twelve hour days since this all started so he can avoid me as much as possible. When he came home tonight he took a shower and immediately went down the basement again. My stomach is on knots with pain, sorrow and fear that I’ve destroyed my marriage. Is there anything I can do to save us?


Oh god. Sorry but no you can’t save your marriage and let me explain to you way. Your affair wasn’t a mistake. A affair is never a mistake. A mistake is putting salt in your coffee instead of sugar coz your half asleep waking up. A affair is a choice.

secondly. This co worker has let you know clearly he’s interested multiple times. You never reported him or looked for another job. You betrayed your husband not just during the affair. But you betrayed your marriage every time you didn’t report this guy. Every day you didn’t look for another job. Everytime you didn’t tell the co worker to **** off. You always left the door open. Your husband will never fully trust you again. Not just because of the cheating. But because of your total failure to shut down a avenue to cheating. And for god sake. It’s a pandemic and we are in a recession. Most people are hard up right now. To argue about money at this time is silly.


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## Ginger Sword

ConanHub said:


> People are going to play with your semantics but I generally agree with your sentiments.


Conan, I’m not getting why my comment seemed to tigger the ‘semantics police’. What OP did was clearly wrong and she broke her sacred marriage vows. I’m not sure that I could forgive my own wife if she did this. However, having read many posts on here and on Reddit and being in law enforcement for 29 years I think I’m reasonable at detecting BS and sincerity and I simply wish OP and her spouse well, whatever happens. The Oxford dictionary definition of mistake: an act or judgement that is misguided or wrong. This could be taking a wrong turn, painting the hall the wrong colour or having an affair. Now each is on a different level. I know this. Affairs are wrong. Some however go on and on with multiple partners and with no remorse (except when they get caught). OP is different and I wish her and her spouse well.


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## ConanHub

Ginger Sword said:


> Conan, I’m not getting why my comment seemed to tigger the ‘semantics police’. What OP did was clearly wrong and she broke her sacred marriage vows. I’m not sure that I could forgive my own wife if she did this. However, having read many posts on here and on Reddit and being in law enforcement for 29 years I think I’m reasonable at detecting BS and sincerity and I simply wish OP and her spouse well, whatever happens. The Oxford dictionary definition of mistake: an act or judgement that is misguided or wrong. This could be taking a wrong turn, painting the hall the wrong colour or having an affair. Now each is on a different level. I know this. Affairs are wrong. Some however go on and on with multiple partners and with no remorse (except when they get caught). OP is different and I wish her and her spouse well.


I'm pulling for them as well.

@Lost_And_Wandering , I hope you are doing well and your husband of course.

If we don't hear back I'm going to assume you two maybe worked it out.🙂


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## Tested_by_stress

I'm pulling for the husband to make the right decision for himself.


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## Divinely Favored

Be 


Ginger Sword said:


> Conan, I’m not getting why my comment seemed to tigger the ‘semantics police’. What OP did was clearly wrong and she broke her sacred marriage vows. I’m not sure that I could forgive my own wife if she did this. However, having read many posts on here and on Reddit and being in law enforcement for 29 years I think I’m reasonable at detecting BS and sincerity and I simply wish OP and her spouse well, whatever happens. The Oxford dictionary definition of mistake: an act or judgement that is misguided or wrong. This could be taking a wrong turn, painting the hall the wrong colour or having an affair. Now each is on a different level. I know this. Affairs are wrong. Some however go on and on with multiple partners and with no remorse (except when they get caught). lt t and I wish her and her spouse well.


Like calling homicide a mistake. That word is seen as doing something errant that you did not realize was a wrong action/decision to take. 

I made a mistake when I shot him 8x with my Colt Government .45.


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## Tested_by_stress

QuietGuy said:


> Lost, how are you doing?


She left here because she didn't like the reception she got. She is active on another forum and lots of drama has followed her confession including a revenge affair and her husband beating the AP. I won't mention the other forums name.


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## GoldenR

Yep.... she said bc of his RA, she didn't think R was possible now. It was possible until he did it. Meaning her A was excusable. His is not. 

The wayward mind is a whacked out thing.


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## Tested_by_stress

GoldenR said:


> Yep.... she said bc of his RA, she didn't think R was possible now. It was possible until he did it. Meaning her A was excusable. His is not.
> 
> The wayward mind is a whacked out thing.


She doesn't seem to grasp that everything that has happened as a result of her betrayal is just that......."the result of her betrayal"! Hubby should have tossed her out (bag and baggage) and never looked back.


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## GusPolinski

Tested_by_stress said:


> She left here because she didn't like the reception she got. She is active on another forum and lots of drama has followed her confession including a revenge affair and her husband beating the AP. I won't mention the other forums name.


Hot damn!


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