# Is my wife just an enigma?



## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

New here - I've spent days reading 100's of threads and found a lot of useful advice. But most ideas I've already tried with limited success.

I'm 48, wife is 42. Married with 3 teenagers. Life is seemingly perfect. My career has really taken off the past 5 years. No more money stress. No health issues. Family is all well - everyone getting older of course. We have the big house and nice cars. 

My wife was able to become a stay at home mom - which I thought was the answer to everything as work stress killed her libido and made her just an unhappy person in general.

So here we are and still her libido is just not in sync with mine. We are once a week - at night, in our bedroom for 1- 2 hours. 

The weird thing to me, which is hard to explain in a forum post like this and she is very into it. She's always been into watching porn, using toys, trying new positions. 90% of the time she o's - and usually 2-5 times. She doesn't like the mess/fluids but other than that will do most anything - and likes it.

But apart from that 1-2 hours on a weekend night she is just so conservative. She doesn't like me to flirt with her or vice-versa, no sex talk. No build up.

I think it has a lot to do with her self-esteem but she's very hot and fit. I try to build her up but she still prefers sex in the dark. I used to blame it on her stress - but now she finds other things to stress about besides work.

I know I'm a giver and she's a taker. I've tried the no more mr nice guy approach and it has possibly helped some - we are at least now a regular once a week. But she has no drive to do more. I like the build up, the flirting. The possibility of sex somewhere other than our bedroom.

She won't sext me or send sexy pics. Only buys conservative lingerie - which she only wears if I push her. It's like a switch goes off after we have sex - no more of that for another week. After we do have sex I almost get sad knowing it will be a week before I feel that connection with her again.

I worry that by giving her the world it's working against me. I let her buy whatever she wants within reason. We make all major financial decisions together.

So to try to sum it up - she has low self-esteem, is very adventurous sexually but only for 1-2 hours per week and does not have a giver type personality. She would never read a book or get on-line to look into any of this. She always make me feel like she doesn't care and I should just be happy with what I have.

When I tell her I love the connection we had when we have been in sync in the past, she makes me feel like a whiney little kid.

One other weird thing - she hates to kiss. No kissing during sex or at other times. Pecks only. Says it's not just me - she's always disliked it. I kinda miss passionate kisses!

I have talked to her so many times - we really do communicate. 

Her response to me for the past year has been to just take her whenever I'm in the mood. Which I have tried but it feels so one-sided with no buildup during the day - or even right before we have sex. Sometimes when I take her it's really good for both of us - but I guess I want to be wanted more.

Thoughts?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You have just climbed into a large boatfull of people in your situation. We are all seeking an answer but thus far we have not been successful. You might check out some of the posts by woundedwarrior as he seems to be coping by initiating "emotional divorce" and has met with some degree of success according to him.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Has your wife ever behaved in the way that you describe wanting her to behave? If so, when did that behavior change?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sounds like your wife likes sex, but not intimacy. 

She has self esteem issues....how often do you tell her how much you love her body, how good she looks, etc.? 

I was watching a reality show the other day called Kendra on Top about one of the former playboy bunnies. It's about her and her husband. She also detests kissing and pretty much all forms of affection with her husband. It's really sad! My take on it with her is that it's just too intimate because of her low self esteem.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sounds to me like your wife wants a more dominant lover, and so do you, and that's the problem.

You want to feel desired and wanted by her. You need to feel her desire for you.

She is uncomfortable with that. Yet she has invited you to "just take her. When a woman says, just take me, she wants domination; it's what gets her off and makes her feel aroused. That means she doesn't want to be needed she wants to feel wanted. 

She isn't going to be interested in setting or putting on lingerie until she is aroused and wants sex. THEN she might over ride her inhibitions but certainly not before.

You should pull her into the bedroom before you leave for work, kiss down her neck and then growl in her ear that you're going to fVck her brains out tonight and she better be ready! Then sext her through out the day about what YOU are going to do TO her. Not what you want her to do to you.

You do these arousal games a few times a week, domination games each time you have sex and you will be creating in her, the arousal response that comes most naturally to her; responding to domination.

Once you've got that pattern going for a while, then you can start giving her instructions and what she will be doing to you when the kids are finally asleep. But you still have to get her AROUSED before doing those things will feel natural to her.

The key is arousal. Think arousal. Get her aroused and then she wants sex.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Lila said:


> Has your wife ever behaved in the way that you describe wanting her to behave? If so, when did that behavior change?


We were very very very sexual for the first few years. Kids changed things a little and then things went really downhill for a few years. Eventually we figured out that the pill was killing her libido. Took about a year to get it out of her system and to get to where we are now - which is once a week.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Sounds like your wife likes sex, but not intimacy.
> 
> She has self esteem issues....how often do you tell her how much you love her body, how good she looks, etc.?
> 
> I was watching a reality show the other day called Kendra on Top about one of the former playboy bunnies. It's about her and her husband. She also detests kissing and pretty much all forms of affection with her husband. It's really sad! My take on it with her is that it's just too intimate because of her low self esteem.


That's a good way of putting it.

I tell her all the time.

I need to see if she will watch that with me and see how she reacts.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Sounds to me like your wife wants a more dominant lover, and so do you, and that's the problem.
> 
> You want to feel desired and wanted by her. You need to feel her desire for you.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying and there is some truth to it. And I do work on arousing her. And she does get aroused - and then bam things are great. And then bam it's over.

I can do more of this - I already do it some. But I guess I'm asking myself why does she never feel the urge to make an effort in our sex life - why no efforts to try to arouse me?

I know I'm the man but still it's nice to be wanted. Over the years I've had opportunities to get that feeling elsewhere and have always resisted - and always will. 

She knows what I want - why is it so hard to make the effort.

Sometimes I think she is just lazy. I've always been self-motivated - she seems to lack that trait. How do I motivate her?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

You blew it when you let her stop working. That will only allow her to get very lazy and make you do everything. As she gets lazier she will feel more and more entitled to life only the way she wants it and that means forget sex. Now since you let her quit, you'll never get her to go back to work or do anthing around the house. She'll only give you the least sex she can get away with and you'll never see more than that.

You do get it once a week and there's lots of people on here that would gladly accept that.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

tnhusband1966 said:


> When I tell her I love the connection we had when we have been in sync in the past, she makes me feel like a whiney little kid.


I agree with Anon Pink, but I want to add something.
In the sentence above anything you say or do that makes your wife perceive you as a "whinny little kid" will absolutely kill her passion for sex with you.

My situation is very similar to yours. I believe my wife KNOWS I want her all the time. This gives her the feeling of "I'm married to a whiney little boy" crap. It's easy to say, "don't want sex with your wife all the time" and another thing altogether to actually do it.

Just this past week I have had the absolute worst time that I can remember at work. It has absolutely KILLED my libido for several days. I cannot even remember the last time I did not want to have sex, if ever. For just these couple days, I REALLY did not want sex at all. I was just immersed in work problems for several days.

You know what happened? My wife asked me no less that TWICE to have sex !! I am telling you that your wife can sense your neediness. No words need to be spoken. The key is to get rid of any indication of neediness. How to do that long term, I have no idea.

Tell me if you find out. Castration would work, but kind of like throwing out the baby with the bath water.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My first impression?

Either she's not that into you, or she is more of a receptive form of desire rather than spontaneous.

I'd get her hot and horny and then gently ask her about that.

And if that didn't work, I'd get her hot and horny, and then keep her there. In other words, get her raring with no place to go.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

tnhusband1966 said:


> ...I'm 48, wife is 42. *Married with 3 teenagers.* Life is seemingly perfect.
> 
> ...My wife was able to become a stay at home mom - which I thought was the answer to everything as work stress killed her libido and made her just an unhappy person in general.
> 
> ...


A few thought.

First, 3 teenagers in the house is a heck of a lot of stress! 

Self esteem is a very classic problem for many women. Affirmations, self hypnosis, etc. are classic ways of curing this, but it has to be something she wants to address. You could get her a CD with self estieem affirmations for women, but you can't force her to listen to it or use it.

Your glass is half full. Can you learn to enjoy the full parts? I know you want more, but she is the only one who can change herself.

I am a really big fan of Glover's NMMNG. Are you absolutely sure you fully understood how to stop being a nice guy? It might be worth another read or two. 

You sort of sound a little codependent needing her to sexually want you for your validation and self worth. Your comments about buying her anything she wants, might also have you review Glovers comments about covert contracts as opposed to providing unconditional love. Also the comment about making you feel like a whiney little kid set off all kinds of red flags with me. She has three whiney teenagers to deal with and she doesn't need a fourth person (you) to have to deal with. 

As to the kissing thing, if you want a really hard read, may I suggest David Schnarch's book the Passionate Marriage. He has a section on exercises in intimacy, but it requires that your wife has certain skills and desire to be in an intimate relationship. His kissing with eyes open and other things are a little too much for many. 

One of his examples is french kissing, which I assume is what you would like. He starts off saying that on the surface it just sounds disgusting to any educated person. You exchange saliva with another person by touching tongues. However, horrible it sounds, most people try it because they are pressured to try it by a lover, they do some self soothing to get over their initial repulsion, then they own it and actually begin to enjoy it and find it defines them and their relationship differently from kissing a parent or child. 

You might want to talk to your wife and see if she views you more as the father of her children (or her 4th child) or her mate and lover. If the former, then you might want to talk to her about the future. 

One of the interesting discussions my wife and I had was what happens to "us" after we have an empty nest. Even though you are a few years off, you can tell her that maybe it is time to think about the transition once the kids are off on their own. This gave us an opportunity to visualize what we wanted our future to be in terms of our relationship. 

Good luck to you. Compared to many, you have a lot to be happy for. It is fine to want more, but marriage is all about compromise between husband and wife. Those compromises can change over time, and it sounds like that is what you desire.


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

The Problem: She's dealing with three teenagers! She has to sum all the self control in the world to keep from killing one or all of them each day! And, then she has to be a good lover?. Plus, there's menopause. And your getting 1 -2 hours once a week? Man, consider yourself lucky and love her to death!!

After 50 years of marriage and three kids now in their 30s and 40s... I speak from experience and listening to my wife.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

tnhusband1966 said:


> That's a good way of putting it.
> 
> I tell her all the time.
> 
> I need to see if she will watch that with me and see how she reacts.


It would be interesting to hear both of your reactions to it. She comes off as an extremely insecure person who desperately wants the attention of men with none of the intimacy. She told her assistant that she hates kissing so much she'd rather just give BJs. Whenever her husband tries to call her on any of her behavior (i.e. flirting with other men) or talk about his needs and feelings she just laughs and giggles like a child because she's so out of touch with her adult emotions. (I find her quite likable though).


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

LOL, so true @leon2100 so very true!

OP, do you consider yourself a good kisser? It's been my experience that women who say they don't much care for kissing have a lover who isn't much of a kisser.

Do you start out slowly, gently? Or do you chomp down on her lips and just shove your tongue in her mouth? Is your mouth clean? Is her mouth clean? I refuse to kiss my husband if I don't feel I have a clean mouth, or his mouth needs refreshing...unless I'm out of this world aroused and then I don't even notice!


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## Melvynman (Mar 19, 2014)

Your wife and most women are sexual repressed. Men have been controlling women sexuality for thousand of years to ensure paternity. Today we control them by "slvt" shaming them. You wife is physically compatible of having sex for hours with several men and loving every minute to it. To behave that way society would shame her. 

Here is what we have done. Only two species of animals have sex for pleasure, dolphins and primates. The higher intelligence of the animal the more sexually promiscuous. We have taken millions of years of sexual evolution and redefined in only a few thousand years. By hearsay we have defined sex is between a married man and women!...This is to ensure paternity for the man. 

We have taken the most complex sexual animal(women) on the earth, brain washed it into believing it will marry the man of her dreams and live happily ever after. We have caged the queen(KING) of sex of all animals on the planet!...and now she doesn't like to play in that cage much anymore. 

Your lucky she still plays at all! 

She will most likely become sexually dysfunction if she remains monogamous. Porn is the only thing keeping her mind sexually functioning. Evolution design her to mother 3 to 5 kids all with different fathers to improve survival odds. Her sexual instinct by way of hormones is constantly evolving so her taste in men is constantly changing. Her sexuality is a moving target your only good for her for few years. Mother nature is calling for her to reproduce with someone else, noting you can do about this!...except "slvt" shame her! 

She is sexually caged by society values. I don't know if you can ever get her out the cage. You can try but she most likely will stay in the cage even if you open the door. 

She is sexually repressed by society and sexually caged by marriage. Her sexual evolution demands her to be promiscuous. She can't can be wild sexually and monogamous! Good luck!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> It would be interesting to hear both of your reactions to it. She comes off as an extremely insecure person who desperately wants the attention of men with none of the intimacy. She told her assistant that she hates kissing so much she'd rather just give BJs. Whenever her husband tries to call her on any of her behavior (i.e. flirting with other men) or talk about his needs and feelings she just laughs and giggles like a child because she's so out of touch with her adult emotions. (I find her quite likable though).


There's a whole lot of dysfunction in that couple, from both sides and in their dynamic as a whole. There was a cheating scandal a year or more ago in which he supposedly was being blackmailed by a transgendered woman he'd fooled around with. The over the top dysfunction is what makes the show successful.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

My advice is the following:

• Even if she does not like you being flirtatious, don't stop. If she shrugs you off, just stand firm on telling her how much you are attracted to her. Subconsciously or consciously she may be giving you a shít test to see how easy you back off, and if you do back off easily you likely come across as being insincere. 

• DO NOT make all your issues about sex!!! Try to resolve a problem say related to intimate communication such as hugs or kisses throughout the day, OR make it a point to LISTEN when she wants to talk about something. If you complain about not getting enough sex, this likely makes her feel inadequate and she is likely to withdraw. It may also make her feel that you don not care about her other problems and are only interested in her for sex. So if you feel the need to argue, pick ANY OTHER TOPIC THAN SEX.

• My personal favorite is to reverse engineer NMMNG to make fun of it. Tell her you want sex and that if you do not get it that you are going to throw a huge passive aggressive temper tantrum and make everyone miserable for days. Also admit that you are going to do something nice for her so that she has to comply, but admit you are not sure what she wants and ask her if there is anything you can do that would make her happy. (My wife actually starts getting turned on when I put it to her this way!) When you approach her this way, you are preemptively admitting any problems with sex are your fault and you give her an opportunity to help you. This is a serious fun technique and you should try it, but just be warned you might have to start looking at estimates to add on a room to your house that she has always wanted. 

• Last but not least, make it a point not to take things she does for granted. If she is a stay at home mom, odds are she does a lot to keep the house running. Acknowledge what she does and say thanks! 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

tnhusband1966 said:


> I understand what you are saying and there is some truth to it. And I do work on arousing her. And she does get aroused - and then bam things are great. And then bam it's over.
> 
> I can do more of this - I already do it some. But I guess I'm asking myself *why does she never feel the urge to make an effort in our sex life - why no efforts to try to arouse me?*
> 
> ...



Im really glad you posted that question you ask yourself because it kind of reveals a lack of fully understanding how Responsive Desire works.

Read this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shameless-woman/201010/do-you-understand-female-sexual-desire



> "Responsive desire" is when the motivation to have sex begins AFTER sexual behavior has started. As in, you're doing something else when your partner comes over and starts kissin' on ya, and you go, "Oh yeah! That's a good idea!" *Or you and your partner set aside Friday night as Sex Night, and then Sex Night gets here and you're like, "Oh, Sex Night. But I'm so tired..." But you made a deal, so you get started... and before long you've forgotten you were tired*.



Does the bolded part sound familiar?



And this:do you know when you want it? | the dirty normal



> The idea that functional sexual desire requires wanting sex out of the blue is bull**** – pervasive and intractable bull****, but bull**** nonetheless. Yet again we’re confronted with what is becoming the theme of the blog: when you use male standards to assess ALL sexuality, **** goes to hell. In this instance, when spontaneous, “Hey, I think I’d like to have sex!” desire is the normative standard, anyone whose style that isn’t suddenly becomes “abnormal.” Which is bull****, however pervasive and intractable.



And then I will add my own experience for your edification....

I used to think I had a very strong libido. I wanted sex nearly all the time! I was ready for sex at a moments notice and I took risks with my husband in order to get sex, like being late, like too near public... But the truth is I didn't have a really strong libido, I had a constant arousal level that was stuck on 4-6, while most women have an arousal level at zero as a normal daily operating temperature. For more than 10 years I had a constant level of arousal, with physical symptoms most notably in my clitoris, which pushed me to desire sex all the time.

But then full menopause hit and my arousal level went to zero and stayed there. Now I have to work to get myself aroused and I only do it when I'm pretty sure my husband really wants to have sex. Because I know what it's like to really want sex but not get it, I never turn him down without a very good reason and lots of time I start to have sex with him and I'm STILL not very aroused but I trust I'll eventually get there and I almost always do.

All these husbands who complain about their wives never wanting sex are not getting their wives aroused. Whether they're too needy, whether the relationship is lousy, whether their wives no longer want to be anywhere near them, whether their wives have serious body image problems...the bottom line is ALL of those things can be over come if the wife was aroused enough BEFORE sex started. 

The trouble is, a lot of wives won't allow themselves to become aroused because of the problems I've mentioned above, and because sex has become a battleground because husbands have been measuring their wives sex drive by the only standard they know, a man's standard. Making their wives feel defective because she doesn't approach sex the way he does.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> You blew it when you let her stop working. That will only allow her to get very lazy and make you do everything. As she gets lazier she will feel more and more entitled to life only the way she wants it and that means forget sex. Now since you let her quit, you'll never get her to go back to work or do anthing around the house. She'll only give you the least sex she can get away with and you'll never see more than that.
> 
> You do get it once a week and there's lots of people on here that would gladly accept that.


I hope you are wrong. I no longer have to do much housework and she's fine with that. She takes care of the house very well.
I do agree I should be happy with once a week - but it's not just the frequency - it's the flirting, touching, romance etc that I crave.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

UMP said:


> I agree with Anon Pink, but I want to add something.
> In the sentence above anything you say or do that makes your wife perceive you as a "whinny little kid" will absolutely kill her passion for sex with you.


I agree this is something I do work on - and need to work on more.

The problem is occasionally she will react sexually to something I do, say, text etc. So I keep pushing knowing that once in a blue moon she will react in way that fulfills me and makes me feel in sync with her.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

marduk said:


> My first impression?
> 
> Either she's not that into you, or she is more of a receptive form of desire rather than spontaneous.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure she's into me - she says enough and tries enough to make me think she really is.

She is definitely responsive desire - at least that's what she has become.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> LOL, so true @leon2100 so very true!
> 
> OP, do you consider yourself a good kisser? It's been my experience that women who say they don't much care for kissing have a lover who isn't much of a kisser.
> 
> Do you start out slowly, gently? Or do you chomp down on her lips and just shove your tongue in her mouth? Is your mouth clean? Is her mouth clean? I refuse to kiss my husband if I don't feel I have a clean mouth, or his mouth needs refreshing...unless I'm out of this world aroused and then I don't even notice!


She denies it's me or my technique.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Thanks to everyone - badsanta, AP and all. It is all food for thought.

The one thing I can never wrap my head around is the undeniable inconsistency she has towards sex. Some examples:

She read the Fifty Shades books about 2 years ago - for several weeks we had a lot of great sex as she got aroused reading the books. We tried some new things and the dialogue was wide open - I felt very in sync with her. Then it was over. I suggested she find similar books. Helped her research erotic fiction. She fully admits the sex was hot. Being in sync was hot. But if I bring up the idea of her reading erotica again she thinks I'm crazy. It makes no sense to me - responsive desire or not - she enjoyed reading and she enjoyed the effect it had on us - so why not do that again?

We went to a sex club about 5 years ago - we went like 4 times in 6 months. Just to drink and watch. We were both curious. Several times we went at her request. It was fun, sexy and we both enjoyed it. The sex during that time was off the charts. I remember one night there we suddenly started making out - in public, french kissing groping - it was intense. That was the last time we really kissed. But she got bored with it. Haven't been back since. Again - she enjoyed it - so why not do that again?

Once she gave me a BJ driving down the interstate - then afterwards the sex was intense. She said something like - that was fun - we have to that more often. It's never happened since.

So I have all these memories of amazing moments with her - when I felt so close to her. 

I am pretty sure we will have some more amazing times - it's like she's a camel - she can have some crazy wild sex and that will satisfy her for a year or two. And I hang in there like a puppy waiting for a treat! Which I know is terribly counter-productive!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

tnhusband1966 said:


> it's like she's a camel - she can have some crazy wild sex and that will satisfy her for a year or two.


Is that wrong?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I haven't seen this addressed but you mentioned she's really into porn. .... any chance she could have a porn addiction? Porn interferes with human intimacy by associating sex with the porn and much of porn itself is devoid of intimacy. Usually it's men who are affected by this but women can be too.

Sometimes people seek out porn because they have trouble with intimacy. 

I don't watch much but during the times I have i can tell the difference in the intimacy hb and I share.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> I haven't seen this addressed but you mentioned she's really into porn. .... any chance she could have a porn addiction? Porn interferes with human intimacy by associating sex with the porn and much of porn itself is devoid of intimacy. Usually it's men who are affected by this but women can be too.
> 
> Sometimes people seek out porn because they have trouble with intimacy.
> 
> ...


She will not watch it without me - I wish she would!


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Is that wrong?


It doesn't work for me!


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

tnhusband1966 said:


> We were very very very sexual for the first few years. Kids changed things a little and then things went really downhill for a few years. Eventually we figured out that the pill was killing her libido. Took about a year to get it out of her system and to get to where we are now - which is once a week.


This is such a common story! So many of us have been through it.

Sometimes I just sigh and say that humans are not made for monogamy.

If your wife had a new partner, you might not believe that she's the same person.

For that matter, I once had a realtionship with a divorced woman. Never seen someone so hot in bed. When I asked her about her earlier relationship (her husband had left her for someone younger), she came up with so many excuses of why she couldn't have a good sex connect with her husband. 

At the end of the day, I don't think even the women going through this realise what's happening.... Finally, everyone pays the price.

Your situation quite echoes mine.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

tnhusband1966 said:


> Thanks to everyone - badsanta, AP and all. It is all food for thought.
> 
> The one thing I can never wrap my head around is the undeniable inconsistency she has towards sex. Some examples:
> 
> ...



Now that is very unusual. She is sexually explorative and knows she responds VERY well to the erotic, yet she turns away from it after a few times.

What religion was she raised with?
Would you say her FOO was functional and mostly healthy?

Does she ever have complaints or gripes about you? Doesn't matter if you think they have merit or not but how do you respond? How do you typically respond?

How well does she get along with the kids? Conflict heavier than normal, less than normal?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

It could be that part of her has desires or possibly underlying fetishes that scare her a little or that she feels are too risky for her to explore. If that is the case she may be purposely shutting herself down to protect herself and your family. 

Research the most common female fantasies (strangers, old flame, same sex fling, forbidden fruit) and you'll begin to understand the odd female relationship with the chocolates they use to quench their desires and keep calm.

Perhaps you need to learn to love her just for who she is and be thankful that she is always loyal to you!

Cheers,
Badsanta


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

read about CSA


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

tnhusband1966 said:


> I hope you are wrong. I no longer have to do much housework and she's fine with that. She takes care of the house very well.
> I do agree I should be happy with once a week - but it's not just the frequency - it's the flirting, touching, romance etc that I crave.


What does your wife crave from you, from the man she is committed to for life? Laughter, support, intimate conversation, etc.? She is cleaning the house and having sexual with you once a week, but it sounds to me like she's just going through the motions. Do you think your wife is happy being married to you, happy with your life together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Now that is very unusual. She is sexually explorative and knows she responds VERY well to the erotic, yet she turns away from it after a few times.
> 
> What religion was she raised with?
> Would you say her FOO was functional and mostly healthy?
> ...


She nor her family are particularly religious. She considers herself a Christian but does not like organized religion. She's more spiritual than anything.

Her upbringing was okay - her dad was an ass and would get rough with her and her mom/brothers at times. He's mellowed now - we all seem to get along.

They are all very direct including her - they say exactly what's on their minds. She does not hold back. There is some history of depression with her dad and also with her - but she fought it when she was younger and seems to have got a handle on it.

No real gripes with me other than when I bring up anything to do with sex. She thinks sex is great - just 1-2 hours a week is plenty.
Occasionally she wants more help around the house but now she doesn't work she backs off on that. Understand this - we do everything together. Very rarely do we go our separate ways socially. We are very much into home improvement projects so on the weekends we spend time together planning, shopping and doing projects.

She gets on great with the kids. She can be a little over the top some days but mostly it's peaceful.

When I ask her if she's happy or if she needs anything she says everything is great. She wants me to start planning for an early retirement and wants us to travel more - which I am working on.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

badsanta said:


> It could be that part of her has desires or possibly underlying fetishes that scare her a little or that she feels are too risky for her to explore. If that is the case she may be purposely shutting herself down to protect herself and your family.
> 
> Research the most common female fantasies (strangers, old flame, same sex fling, forbidden fruit) and you'll begin to understand the odd female relationship with the chocolates they use to quench their desires and keep calm.
> 
> ...


She's so direct I really don't think she holds back on any inner desires or fantasies. She's shared many over the years but then they seem to go away.

I accept she may never change and I will just have to deal with it - but I am still at that point where I can find a way to get her to let loose her sexual side again.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

DoneWithHurting said:


> read about CSA


She says she was never abused.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

SurpriseMyself said:


> What does your wife crave from you, from the man she is committed to for life? Laughter, support, intimate conversation, etc.? She is cleaning the house and having sexual with you once a week, but it sounds to me like she's just going through the motions. Do you think your wife is happy being married to you, happy with your life together?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your comments are very "big picture" - and I appreciate you making me think along these lines.

I think she's happy with life, me, marriage - but I am going to ask her - specifically what does she crave from me. And specifically is she happy.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Rigid, inflexible, tightly scheduled, obsessively planned out? Tight time management as a general perspective on life? Sounds like your 1-2 hrs/week is the allotted time slice for that particular activity.


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## Grey (Jan 13, 2015)

badsanta said:


> It could be that part of her has desires or possibly underlying fetishes that scare her a little or that she feels are too risky for her to explore. If that is the case she may be purposely shutting herself down to protect herself and your family.
> 
> Research the most common female fantasies (strangers, old flame, same sex fling, forbidden fruit) and you'll begin to understand the odd female relationship with the chocolates they use to quench their desires and keep calm.
> 
> ...


Badsanta, I think you're awesome. You're really throwing out some great advice.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

tnhusband1966 said:


> Thanks to everyone - badsanta, AP and all. It is all food for thought.
> 
> The one thing I can never wrap my head around is the undeniable inconsistency she has towards sex. Some examples:
> 
> ...


It's quite simple.
The reason why she is excited after fifty shades and watching live porn is because she has THAT in her mind instead of just you.
After a time, she is left with just you.
After 15,20,25 years, husbands become transparent. What used to be a proud, carefree, sky is the limit, handsome, interesting, mysterious person, is now a predicable whiney little boy with massive kinks in his male armor. As I say this, I not only speak to you, but I speak to myself.

You must regain your youthful maleness because that is what your wife will be attracted to.

1. work out
2. lose weight
3. dress to kill
4. no complaining, you conquer 
5. no begging for sex, you take
6. no whining little boy, you're a man that can rule the world.
7. you must have the power to not be needy for sex. 
etc. etc.

Think of it this way. If James Bond all of a sudden settles in, gets married and starts pacing the floor and begging his wife for sex because he "needs to feel connected to her" then James will grow some very big blue balls.

It's elementary dear Watson !
Yet, triple phd's fail this test, daily.

I will also add that if you fail at this for long enough, there is no return. After a time, no matter what you may become, that old whiney little boy may have ruined the party forever.
Be thankful that your wife still gets nasty with you once a week for several hours. You still have hope.:smile2:

Get to it !!


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

She says she only watches porn with you. If she's at home by herself every day there's a good chance that she's watching porn and busting out the sex toys. I would do some investigating and at least rule it out. It's easy enough to do.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

tnhusband1966 said:


> Understand this - we do everything together. Very rarely do we go our separate ways socially. We are very much into home improvement projects so on the weekends we spend time together planning, shopping and doing projects.
> 
> She gets on great with the kids. She can be a little over the top some days but mostly it's peaceful.
> 
> When I ask her if she's happy or if she needs anything she says everything is great. She wants me to start planning for an early retirement and wants us to travel more - which I am working on.


Hmmm I wonder if too much time together might be dull. @marduk has a fantastic link to a TED talk by Esther Perele about sparking passion in your marriage.

I'm thinking there is a loss of attraction due to a lack of exciting friction. 

What specifically made me think of this for you was that these home projects are probably, and I'm assuming here, all based on her requests, her ideas, her desires, her designs and you're kind of the board on which she bounces ideas? We know your wife digs domination. She's not seeing you in your element. She's not seeing you as the passionate driven guy. She's seeing you as the dutiful husband who goes along with what his wife wants because he is a really good guy who wants to make her happy. Does this fit for you?

If so its time to find a piece of your own life spending some of your free time doing things JUST for you. It's also time to insist on time spent NOT on the home, the kids, the family... Etc. Whether it's weekends away or just one night in a hotel nearby, get out of the Mom and Dad homeowner roles. None of those roles are sexy or attractive, especially after so many years of being in them.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Here's the talk AP was referencing:
Esther Perel: The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | TED Talk | TED.com


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thank you Marduk!!!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's called SLA or service level agreement. She has her mind set for 2 hours a week and that's it. That's the SLA.

It's sustainable to the extent the SLA is not too bad but history seems to suggest that SLA's tend to change unilaterally for the worse. Ie 1x a week to 1x every two then every three you get the idea.

She has a mindset of how much (little) she think you can tolerate and goes from there.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

john117 said:


> It's called SLA or service level agreement. She has her mind set for 2 hours a week and that's it. That's the SLA.
> 
> It's sustainable to the extent the SLA is not too bad but history seems to suggest that SLA's tend to change unilaterally for the worse. Ie 1x a week to 1x every two then every three you get the idea.
> 
> She has a mindset of how much (little) she think you can tolerate and goes from there.


John, 
You're thinking the cup is half empty when in reality it's half full.
2 hours of mind blowing nirvana sex once a week ain't "that" bad. N'est pas?

To top it off, if that is his baseline I think there is more to be had.
The glass is IMO is half full.

Reach for the sky, John:smile2:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Call me in a year when the SLA is 1x every two weeks and the cup is quarter full 

I'm speaking from experience. I would settle for desire, affection and 1x a month rather than passionate sex 1x a week and no fly zone the rest.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

DoneWithHurting said:


> read about CSA


Yes, I've been holding off on asking if OP's wife was sexually abused as a child. Some of the symptoms are there, but others maybe not. CSA is a possibility here.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@Thor, I wondered too but it's only based on the fact that she keeps control on her arousal until she lets it go and then she really lets it go...but then shame and guilt and it's back to control. IDK....I don't think so.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Just an enigma? No a Riddle, wrapped in an Enigma, shrouded in a Mystery.

Thread jack over.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> @Thor, I wondered too but it's only based on the fact that she keeps control on her arousal until she lets it go and then she really lets it go...but then shame and guilt and it's back to control. IDK....I don't think so.


Yeah, I'm thinking no, too, but I did wonder at first.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> @Thor, I wondered too but it's only based on the fact that she keeps control on her arousal until she lets it go and then she really lets it go...but then shame and guilt and it's back to control. IDK....I don't think so.


I'm pretty sure there's no abuse in her past - she really is an open book. She's very direct. She does not believe in secrets. She does not beat around the bush. She's told me some things that make me believe she would not hold back on CSA or anything else traumatic in her past.

I think the advice about just getting her arousal level up and me being more dominant is where I'm going to go with this. I'm already much more dominant than I used to be but I need to work on it. Including working on my fitness etc.

This morning I texted her and said - you need to do something to get aroused today so I can fck you tonight. her response was - ok.

I then said - send a pic. She sent a pic of her in a bra - that's a first!

Really appreciate all the advice!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

tnhusband1966 said:


> I'm pretty sure there's no abuse in her past - she really is an open book. She's very direct. She does not believe in secrets. She does not beat around the bush. She's told me some things that make me believe she would not hold back on CSA or anything else traumatic in her past.


I'm leaning strongly to there being no abuse in her past. However, abuse victims frequently feel great shame about the abuse and will deny it ever happened. It is not uncommon at all. But there are enough contradicting details about her which makes me think abuse is not her issue here. Whether or not there is abuse, there is nothing you can do about it aside from gently steering her towards good trauma therapy. Your approach should otherwise remain the same.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Thor said:


> I'm leaning strongly to there being no abuse in her past. However, abuse victims frequently feel great shame about the abuse and will deny it ever happened. It is not uncommon at all. But there are enough contradicting details about her which makes me think abuse is not her issue here. Whether or not there is abuse, there is nothing you can do about it aside from gently steering her towards good trauma therapy. Your approach should otherwise remain the same.


I was struck by you saying "contradicting details" - in what way do you think her behaviors contradict?

I used to think she was borderline bi-polar as her mood swings used to be quite dramatic. She didn't have the ultra highs and lows - but she would get angry/upset over something and then a few hours later be over it. I'd still be processing it all! But in saying that - she's no where near as moody as she used to be - but she's not passionate as often either. When she's passionate we are very very good at it...just lacking in frequency and spontaneity.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think the contradicting details are that she has had short periods of time during which she has highly sexually explorative and had frequent arousals, followed by ...crickets.... Until the next period of flying that freak flag. Well, that's what I noticed. Maybe @Thor noticed something different.

Sounds like you've got a good plan going forward. I hope you'll update us and let us know how things are progressing?

Might I suggest some creative dirty talking in these texts? "Babe, I want you touching your p*ssy through out the day today so you're nice and ready for me."


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Way too forward linguistically speaking - appropriate for the more, ehem, illuminati women but i would ratchet it up slowly with the language with someone more conservative. 

Once you know what her preference range is you can slowly ramp it up.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> I think the contradicting details are that she has had short periods of time during which she has highly sexually explorative and had frequent arousals, followed by ...crickets.... Until the next period of flying that freak flag. Well, that's what I noticed. Maybe @Thor noticed something different.
> 
> Sounds like you've got a good plan going forward. I hope you'll update us and let us know how things are progressing?
> 
> Might I suggest some creative dirty talking in these texts? "Babe, I want you touching your p*ssy through out the day today so you're nice and ready for me."


I never really thought of it in that context but it is accurate. It's hard for me to deal with as I want the highs all the time - or at least semi-regularly. A married sex life is a rollercoaster for everyone - but jeez. Knowing what she's capable of but chooses not to do is frustrating.

The problem with flirting or being sexually suggestive via texts or other methods is that I never know what reaction I'm going to get. Sometimes it's silence, sometimes a negative reaction and then just occasionally it's positive - rarely will she be dirty back, but she has been. 

When I got home I asked her what she had done to get aroused. She said - nothing. So I said - you said you were going to get aroused. No real answer. She did ask me if I liked the pic. I said yes - I'd been aroused all day! We did have sex which was great but part of me was disappointed that again she made no effort. But yet the sex itself was intense - multiple o's for her on a week night!

I guess it's just not that important to her right now. But I know that could change. I've read the thread about LD women enjoying sex but still not really wanting it. It's messed up!

So I will continue to work on figuring out the next thing that will get her interested again - but knowing that it might be temporary.

Who knows maybe she has a fetish or an arousal trigger that she's not even aware of!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

tnhusband1966 said:


> I guess it's just not that important to her right now. But I know that could change. I've read the thread about LD women enjoying sex but still not really wanting it. It's messed up!


Why is it messed up? Different strokes for different folks!

I'm with Anon Pink that you need to be a little more sexy in your text than "get yourself aroused." That would be a turn off to me.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

Instead of texting her with what she needs to do in order to satisfy you ("get yourself aroused" would turn me off too), try texting her what you'd like to do to her.

Also, her behavior doesn't seem that abnormal to me. Maybe 2 hours of hot sex is enough to satisfy her for a week or so. Maybe if 2 hours is "normal sex" for you guys, it seems like a lot of work to do that more often, so she budgets her sexual energy. When she's reading dirty books, she gets turned on more often because it's on her mind.

Have you tried lowering the bar for the sex you're having? She might be willing to do it more often if it doesn't seem like such a production each time. If sex was a 1-2 hour pageant each time, I wouldn't want it several times per week either. But 45 minutes a few times per week might feel more reasonable to her.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

tnhusband1966 said:


> I never really thought of it in that context but it is accurate. It's hard for me to deal with as I want the highs all the time - or at least semi-regularly. A married sex life is a rollercoaster for everyone - but jeez. Knowing what she's capable of but chooses not to do is frustrating.
> 
> The problem with flirting or being sexually suggestive via texts or other methods is that I never know what reaction I'm going to get. Sometimes it's silence, sometimes a negative reaction and then just occasionally it's positive - rarely will she be dirty back, but she has been.
> 
> ...


It's no more messed up then you enjoying the sex but not wanting it unless she is the dominant one.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

mary35 said:


> It's no more messed up then you enjoying the sex but not wanting it unless she is the dominant one.


POW!

Tnh, maybe I was too vague, but your text telling her to get herself aroused was a turn off. I would have ignored it too. It wasn't sexy. It wasn't communicating your desire FOR her. It communicated your desire for her TO WANT you. Imagine the picture you drew with that comment. "He wants me to get myself aroused so that he can come home and not even bother trying to arouse me but I'm supposed to be ready and waiting? Hell no!"

But the image you send when you say, "babe I want you touching yourself all afternoon so I can picture it in my head." And then you text an hour or so later, "I just imagined what it would look like to watch you touching yourself. Damn babe you're so hot!"

That's sexy. That's showing your desire FOR and inciting her to join you.

Then when you get home you back in into a corner, put your hands on the wall on either side of her head and say, "I want to smell your fingers. I want to smell the evidence of you being a good girl for me." And then you threaten a spanking if you don't smell anything.

That's setting the tone. That's dominating without being a d!ck about it. That's eroticism and erotic tension. That's fvcking hot!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> Way too forward linguistically speaking - appropriate for the more, ehem, illuminati women but i would ratchet it up slowly with the language with someone more conservative.
> 
> Once you know what her preference range is you can slowly ramp it up.


Bah, humbug Mr Scrooge!

Carpe diem!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

NoSizeQueen said:


> Have you tried lowering the bar for the sex you're having? She might be willing to do it more often if it doesn't seem like such a production each time. If sex was a 1-2 hour pageant each time, I wouldn't want it several times per week either. But 45 minutes a few times per week might feel more reasonable to her.


:iagree:

I love sex, but if I knew it was always going to be a 1-2 hour production, I think I might start dreading it. That's fine when you have lots of time, but personally I would try for more frequency and even throw a few quickies in there too. This would meet your need for "connecting" with her more. 

I find there's nothing sexier than my SO rolling over on top of me in the morning before he has to get ready for work. I know it's gonna be fast, but also very intense... Then we both get up and hit the shower. It's a great way to start the day and I feel close to him all day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Wow 1-2 hrs, watching porn, lingerie...it sounds like sex always has to be a big production. Do the two of you ever just have a quickie? Or a lazy romp in the morning?

My husband and I both love sex with each other but between our opposite work schedules, 2 teens in the house & only one day off together we fit it in when he can and usually do it a few times a week.

For example hubby woke up horny this morning and I was awakened to him lightly whacking his erection on my mouth. We're playful and don't take sex so seriously all the time. Perhaps she feels all the things you expect when having sex is a lot of work and she's not up to all that more than once a week. Sex should be enjoyable, not feel like work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> POW!
> That's setting the tone. That's dominating without being a d!ck about it. That's eroticism and erotic tension. That's fvcking hot!


LOL. For real.

I just love the human variance in sexuality. All I could think of when I read your post was how to extract the ice pick from my eye socket if I tried it at home. And I'm not being negative when I say that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> LOL. For real.
> 
> I just love the human variance in sexuality. All I could think of when I read your post was how to extract the ice pick from my eye socket if I tried it at home. And I'm not being negative when I say that.


Ouch! I would hate for that to happen to you. But you already know your wife has zero intentions of ever being sexually explorative. OP's wife has a freak flag that she flies proudly. Just not often enough.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> POW!
> 
> Tnh, maybe I was too vague, but your text telling her to get herself aroused was a turn off. I would have ignored it too. It wasn't sexy. It wasn't communicating your desire FOR her. It communicated your desire for her TO WANT you. Imagine the picture you drew with that comment. "He wants me to get myself aroused so that he can come home and not even bother trying to arouse me but I'm supposed to be ready and waiting? Hell no!"
> 
> ...


Hit the nail on the head. OP check out talks by Esther Perel on Eroticism and what it is.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

tnhusband1966 said:


> I was struck by you saying "contradicting details" - in what way do you think her behaviors contradict?


Some things look like she has an aversion to sexuality outside of the bedroom, such as her negative reactions to sexy texts. And she compartmentalizes sex into that one time period in that one place. Those look like CSA. But her using toys, trying different positions, and being able to easily orgasm don't look like CSA. There are things you have not mentioned which I would have expected if there was CSA.

A lot of it is in reading the tone and context of your posts.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

Maybe the aversion to sexuality outside the bedroom is due to not wanting to start something she can't finish. If she knows a sexy text or kiss will cause her husband to press for sex, and she doesn't want sex at that time, she'll avoid those actions.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Bah, humbug Mr Scrooge!
> 
> 
> 
> Carpe diem!



Behavioral conditioning at it's best


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Seems like a couple of my comments sparked some emotions.

When I said that's messed up it was obviously a total generalization but in my mind if you enjoy something when you do it, it makes your partner happy when you do it, it doesn't cost you any money (usually!) - then yes it's a little messed up not to make the effort to have sex. I recognize that we are all different and that we all have different levels of libido and all that goes with that. 

What I will never for the life of me be able to understand about the lower libido partner is their lack of effort. On forums like this when I see low libido people asking what can they do I am amazed and impressed. My wife like many just doesn't seem to care enough to even come to a place like this, see her doctor, see a therapist or do whatever it takes to even meet halfway. 

My text to her about getting aroused was meant to be something different. I have tried so many different ways to try to get us more in sync. My biggest problem continues to be never knowing how she's going to react. It wasn't a total failure as she didn't react negatively - and we did have non-Saturday sex.

As for the 1-2 hours of sex - it's not always that long - we do have the occasional quickie but she's really the one that likes it to last a while. That's something we usually agree on.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

mary35 said:


> It's no more messed up then you enjoying the sex but not wanting it unless she is the dominant one.


That's a tremendous over-simplification of what I'm talking about. It's not that I want her to be dominant. It's more like I want her to be a more sexual person - and I know she can be. During those periods when she was - we were very in sync, we were very happy - I just don't understand why we can't have that on a more consistent basis. And the fact that she knows we are not in sync but makes very little effort to change really baffles me.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

tnhusband1966 said:


> It's more like I want her to be a more sexual person - and I know she can be.


No, you do not. You know she can be very sexual on occasion. You do not know she can be more sexual on a more frequent or consistent basis. Maybe she can and maybe she can't. So far the evidence points to can't. 



> the fact that she knows we are not in sync but makes very little effort to change really baffles me.


If your wife told you that in order to be in sync sexually she needs for you to allow her to strap on a large dido and penetrate you anally, how much effort would you make to change to suit her needs? What if her need was for you to allow some other guy to sodomize you? You may be tempted to say "those are completely different, those are unpleasant for me and sex is generally pleasant you her." But I can assure you there is SOMETHING about having sex more frequently that is unpleasant for her. She may or may not be consciously aware of what that is. But it is there. Because if there wasn't anything that made it uncomfortable for her (and the discomfort may be that she would rather sleep, or clean the house, or check her email - it does not mean that the sex is painful or isn't satisfying when it happens), then she would most likely have agreed to do it more often.

Please accept that she doesn't feel about sex the way you do, and it IS a big deal to her to have sex more often or more passionately, and it is not "no big deal" for her to compromise with you the way you wish she would.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Are we talking genuine needs or made up stuff here?

Needs have to pass some bound rationality test.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

You describe LD people as not making an effort. I understand it may feel that way to you. But perhaps really hot sex once per week IS her making an effort. I suspect if she stopped making an effort, you'd be getting a lot less.

You want her to have more sex because it will make you happy. Are you stepping up your game outside of the bedroom to make her happy? What's in it for her? 

I don't mean to be harsh, but it seems like your idea of being in sync is for her to step up to where you are. And it doesn't sound like that's her idea of in sync. Are you willing to give more in order to get more, or is she the only one expected to give more?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The issue is not the super steamy stuff once a week. The issue is the lack of passion or connection outside the bedroom - so 1x a week morphs into 1x every two or three weeks then poof...

Let me be clear here... If you take an activity and pigeonhole it every week the mind adapts and omg now you start drifting apart all of a sudden. Basic stuff couples enjoy become marginalized. The simple yet rewarding stuff. Not the wild sex in Paris stuff but the holding hands and making out in Paducah stuff. 

We did the OPs routine for a while. 2-3 hour production at times, usually 1-2. The rest of the time, nothing. Think of it as atrophy. Fast forward a few years and my marriage is zombied. I'm not saying it will happen but it's too easy to ignore the chance it could happen.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

tnhusband1966 said:


> New here - I've spent days reading 100's of threads and found a lot of useful advice. But most ideas I've already tried with limited success.
> 
> I'm 48, wife is 42. Married with 3 teenagers. Life is seemingly perfect. My career has really taken off the past 5 years. No more money stress. No health issues. Family is all well - everyone getting older of course. We have the big house and nice cars.
> 
> ...


I really liked Bad Santa's advice to accept her as she is. It seems to me that all along she has given you clues and hints to what she may want from you. I have a feeling that you have been ignoring it, instead concentrating on what you want from her. You may find if you provide her with what she wants, the passion you desire her to have may awaken. It may not, but hey - what do you have to loose?

I may be totally off base, but some things struck me from your posts. 
1. You are not fit. Are you flabby or overweight? Do you take pride in your appearance? Lights out may not be about insecurities.

2. Not liking kissing. I agree with whoever wrote that maybe it's the way you kiss that is the problem. Or she really may not like it. Something you need to explore more. 

3. You agree that she has responsive desire. So what are you giving her to respond too? Have you read the books Fifty Shades? What do you think she was responding to after reading them? The ideal of being the aggressor in the relationship? Umm. I don't think so. Everything you have written suggests she wants you to be the dominant male. So give that a try. See how she responds. 

4. She tells you to take her any time you are in the mood. Umm. Kind of sounds like what the male character did in the book, doesn't it. Except, often he just took her - only to give her pleasure. Try taking her, but in the middle, switch to just giving her pleasure. Then stop without getting yours. Or try sexually teasing her for awhile, but don't finish it - try leaving her hanging a couple of times and see how she responds. 

You say it feels one sided, you want build up, you want to feel wanted. Maybe that is what she needs from you, even if she doesn't respond the way you want her too or think she should . Some women feel really awkward being the aggressor, and have some past conditioning that they have to keep themselves controlled and subdued, or they feel like bad girls ( in a bad way) when they pursue the sexual activity. Being taken by the man alleviates that problem. It's not them acting a certain way, it's the male doing it to them - and making them respond - which is Ok. Like I said none of this may apply to your wife - or maybe it does. Something to explore.

You say she doesn't turn you down, but does she participate or respond in any way when you just take her? What do you give her to respond too when you take her? 

Try an experiment:

For the next several months, try becoming a dominant male. Try sex texting her what you want to do to her, several days is a row, but don't act on it or mention it when you get home? Then on a weekend take her to a hotel and do all the things you mentioned. Provide the sexy lingerie and tell her to put it on. Spend some time checking her out in it. 

Over the next several months, try ramping up you alpha male a bit. If you are out of shape, get working on it. Research kissing techniques, and think about what you normally do, then do the opposite. 

Do as many things that you can think of to mix things up for her. Research some techniques and try one or two here and there. Come up behind her out of the blue in public, nibble her neck and then walk away as if nothing happened. Pretend you are not married to her and are interested in dating her. Be the dominant male like the character in the book and see how she responds.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

john117 said:


> The issue is not the super steamy stuff once a week. The issue is the lack of passion or connection outside the bedroom - so 1x a week morphs into 1x every two or three weeks then poof...
> 
> Let me be clear here... If you take an activity and pigeonhole it every week the mind adapts and omg now you start drifting apart all of a sudden. Basic stuff couples enjoy become marginalized. The simple yet rewarding stuff. Not the wild sex in Paris stuff but the holding hands and making out in Paducah stuff.
> 
> We did the OPs routine for a while. 2-3 hour production at times, usually 1-2. The rest of the time, nothing. Think of it as atrophy. Fast forward a few years and my marriage is zombied. I'm not saying it will happen but it's too easy to ignore the chance it could happen.


Who stopped the hand holding and making out? I know sometimes LD' s do simply because the HD' s seem to push it further. So LD s start avoiding any physical contact. But sometimes the HD' s stop it because of resentment and anger over the lack of full blown sex. Or because it gets them horny and they are tired of being accused that they only want sex.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

As far as the OP' s wife. She seems perfectly satisfied with status quo and quite frankly, since she has given him permission to just take her when he wants, seems to participate and enjoy sex when they have it most of the time- she probably can't understand what the problem is. 

Maybe she needs very specific directions to follow to understand exactly what you want from her.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

tnhusband1966 said:


> One other weird thing - she hates to kiss. No kissing during sex or at other times. Pecks only. Says it's not just me - she's always disliked it. I kinda miss passionate kisses!


This is horrible. This is a BIG DEAL. She is not sexually attracted to you.

No man who truly accepts himself and loves himself should tolerate a woman who cant bear to kiss him.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

mary35 said:


> Who stopped the hand holding and making out? I know sometimes LD' s do simply because the HD' s seem to push it further. So LD s start avoiding any physical contact. But sometimes the HD' s stop it because of resentment and anger over the lack of full blown sex. Or because it gets them horny and they are tired of being accused that they only want sex.



Her decision since as we all know "people over 15 don't do such things"... 

Of course she was also against her daughters doing anything of the sort at that age so


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

IndiaInk said:


> This is horrible. This is a BIG DEAL. She is not sexually attracted to you.
> 
> No man who truly accepts himself and loves himself should tolerate a woman who cant bear to kiss him.


My wife hates kissing. But it was an element of the sexual abuse she suffered as a child. This was one of the things OP said initially which made me wonder if his wife was sexually abused, too. There may be some kind of emotional trauma associated with kissing rather than her just not being into him.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> No, you do not. You know she can be very sexual on occasion. You do not know she can be more sexual on a more frequent or consistent basis. Maybe she can and maybe she can't. So far the evidence points to can't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're just splitting hairs - of course she can be more sexual on a frequent or consistent basis - there is nothing preventing her other than what's in her head. I recognize it's all about desire - I just don't understand why she doesn't try.

I would try pretty much anything if I knew it would it would arouse her. Maybe her knowing that works against me?

If I could figure out what made her not want sex then I would fix it - just like if I could figure out what makes her want sex I would fix that too.

I do accept we are two different people with different likes and dislikes. What I have a hard time with is I want us to be completely in sync in more areas of our lives - not all - but at least a few more that currently.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

mary35 said:


> I really liked Bad Santa's advice to accept her as she is. It seems to me that all along she has given you clues and hints to what she may want from you. I have a feeling that you have been ignoring it, instead concentrating on what you want from her. You may find if you provide her with what she wants, the passion you desire her to have may awaken. It may not, but hey - what do you have to loose?
> 
> I may be totally off base, but some things struck me from your posts.
> 1. You are not fit. Are you flabby or overweight? Do you take pride in your appearance? Lights out may not be about insecurities.
> ...


1. I'm fit and dress well etc.
2. She says she's never liked kissing anyone. She's a little bit of a germaphobe.
3. I try to arouse her in various ways. Flirting, innuendos, sexting, acts of service, dressing nice, smelling nice etc etc . Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. 
I am more dominant than I used to be but it's not giving me what I crave.


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

IndiaInk said:


> This is horrible. This is a BIG DEAL. She is not sexually attracted to you.
> 
> No man who truly accepts himself and loves himself should tolerate a woman who cant bear to kiss him.


I love the internet and all the different people that make up this world. But you know what they say about opinions :grin2:


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## tnhusband1966 (Sep 30, 2015)

NoSizeQueen said:


> You describe LD people as not making an effort. I understand it may feel that way to you. But perhaps really hot sex once per week IS her making an effort. I suspect if she stopped making an effort, you'd be getting a lot less.
> 
> You want her to have more sex because it will make you happy. Are you stepping up your game outside of the bedroom to make her happy? What's in it for her?
> 
> I don't mean to be harsh, but it seems like your idea of being in sync is for her to step up to where you are. And it doesn't sound like that's her idea of in sync. Are you willing to give more in order to get more, or is she the only one expected to give more?


It doesn't matter what my idea of being in sync is - "we" either are or "we" are not. There is middle ground in everything we do - but I don't think she really cares if we are in sync or not.

One thing I have been thinking about is what do I do for her to make her happy. I thought giving her a ridiculous lifestyle was the most important thing. But I have to work a lot to maintain this lifestyle. I am going to talk to her about this.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

tnhusband1966 said:


> You're just splitting hairs - of course she can be more sexual on a frequent or consistent basis - there is nothing preventing her other than what's in her head. I recognize it's all about desire - I just don't understand why she doesn't try.


Keep telling yourself that "what's in her head" is nothing or a trifle and see how far that gets you. "What's in her head" is a HUGE deal if you want her to want to have sex with you more frequently or more passionately. In fact, what is going on inside her head is the single most important factor in your sex life. Remember, the largest sex organ in the human body is the brain.



> I would try pretty much anything if I knew it would it would arouse her. Maybe her knowing that works against me?


Yes, it does work against you. So does thinking that your being willing to please her implies that she should be willing to please you. If you like chocolate cake, does that mean she should like chocolate cake? Maybe she likes carrot cake? Maybe she doesn't like cake at all and likes ice cream instead.

Maybe you think that since you are willing to please her sexually it is "only fair" that she do the same for you. Doesn't work that way. Get the book Five Love Languages. If you want her to be willing to speak your language (sex / physical touch), then you need to speak HER language which might be performing Acts of Service or buying her Gifts. You don't give her what YOU want to get what you want, you give her what SHE wants and hope she will give you what you want in return.



> If I could figure out what made her not want sex then I would fix it - just like if I could figure out what makes her want sex I would fix that too.


You can't "fix" her. Only she can change herself. And she has to want to. I can pretty much guarantee that you being willing to "do almost anything for her" sexually is NOT going to motivate her to want to change herself. But your meeting her non-sexual needs might.



> I do accept we are two different people with different likes and dislikes. What I have a hard time with is I want us to be completely in sync in more areas of our lives - not all - but at least a few more that currently.


That is perfectly fine. Just realize that the road to being in sync is not by you doing more of what you want from her, in the hope that she will reciprocate. Do more of what she wants from you. Hint: it is not hot sex.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

Men need to feel in sync sexually, to be in sync emotionally.
Women need to feel in sync emotionally, to be in sync sexually.

You're expecting her to act like a man, but she won't. More sex will not make her feel more in sync with you. And if she's missing something emotionally, more sex (that she doesn't really want) might make her feel used and drive her further away.

You say it should be easy for her to give you what you need, and she just won't. I would almost guarantee there's something in your marriage that she feels the same way about!

Find out what she wants (I really recommend you two take the Love Languages quiz together). Give her what she wants and she will be more willing, maybe even eager, to give what you want. 

YOU are the one who is unhappy, so it's on YOU to take the first step toward change.


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## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

You said she watches porn, and she prefers the room to be dark. Well, read/watch Your Brain On Porn.

Or simply said, Porn is the new drug. Do you how drugs work? Same thing. I suspect you're too plain boring to her compared to ...porn stuff.


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## yours4ever (Mar 14, 2013)

Also, if porn is not the cause, then read on Mating in Captivity.


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