# So, here we are



## FloridaGuy123

Hi,

39yo man, married 3.5 years. Had suspected my wife of cheating based on unusual behaviors, change in patterns etc. Evidence was scant, but gradually appeared...and like most guys I might have been in denial. After all, months ago we took a ski vacation in the Alps and all was well.

Proof has arrived. Not evidence, proof. I know who the guy is. He lives out of town. I know where he works but I do not know too much else about him or anything. She doesn't know that I know. However I will soon confront her. Have to. I cannot tolerate this. 

Ours is the classic situation where I supported her through her medical training, and she has now begun a job where her income is upwards of $40k a month before taxes. In order to support us, I sold a business. We moved, and in doing so, limited my professional opportunities. I do well in big cities, we moved to smallish ones. I currently work at a business I started online; it makes about $1,500 a month. She earns an enormous income. 

I am meeting with a lawyer later this week to learn the rules. We live in an apartment and don't have kids, just two dogs. If anyone has any advice, I am all ears, especially on

- financial stuff. As far as I know, her income is our income and she can't legally cut me off in some way. We have a joint bank account. 

- living arrangements. Gonna be rough living with a bad person. Since she is having the affair, I should ask her to leave. Can I?

I realize the lawyer will answer a lot of these. However, I am also trying to prepare for that consultation, so please do share anything you've got.


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## RandomDude

I believe you are already following the right path, seeking legal advise as soon as you can. That's the best way to know all your options at this point, as we don't know your country/state/laws/etc.

All I can say at this point is that you are doing good. Infidelity should not and can not be tolerated.


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## Kamstel

I’m so sorry for you

Right now, I suggest that you do the most difficult thing in the world.... act like nothing is wrong 

Is the guy married?

After you talk to the lawyer, have her served at work, and approximately the same time, contact his wife/girlfriend.

Then, in order that she does not rewrite history, blast the news on facebook, etc.


The good news is that you will survive. The bad news is that things are going to get worse before they get better.

Hang in there and rely on friends and family


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## sokillme

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 39yo man, married 3.5 years. Had suspected my wife of cheating based on unusual behaviors, change in patterns etc. Evidence was scant, but gradually appeared...and like most guys I might have been in denial. After all, months ago we took a ski vacation in the Alps and all was well.
> 
> Proof has arrived. Not evidence, proof. I know who the guy is. He lives out of town. I know where he works but I do not know too much else about him or anything. She doesn't know that I know. However I will soon confront her. Have to. I cannot tolerate this.
> 
> Ours is the classic situation where I supported her through her medical training, and she has now begun a job where her income is upwards of $40k a month before taxes. In order to support us, I sold a business. We moved, and in doing so, limited my professional opportunities. I do well in big cities, we moved to smallish ones. I currently work at a business I started online; it makes about $1,500 a month. She earns an enormous income.
> 
> I am meeting with a lawyer later this week to learn the rules. We live in an apartment and don't have kids, just two dogs. If anyone has any advice, I am all ears, especially on
> 
> - financial stuff. As far as I know, her income is our income and she can't legally cut me off in some way. We have a joint bank account.
> 
> - living arrangements. Gonna be rough living with a bad person. Since she is having the affair, I should ask her to leave. Can I?
> 
> I realize the lawyer will answer a lot of these. However, I am also trying to prepare for that consultation, so please do share anything you've got.


First talk to an attorney to know your rights. Then don't confront her just ghost her and let your lawyer take her for all she is worth. Push hard for alimony or at least have her pay you back for your businesses but again let her lawyer do that. What I am saying is get all your stuff ready and then one day just move out and ghost, you can leave a short letter like, I know you are having an affair with so and so, I expect to be compensated justly for all the expense I put into your schooling, then leave your proof. Leave a half empty apartment and your ring on the table with a copy of divorce papers and the number of your attorney. Block all ways of contact. Tell your family and hers what happened and move on with your life. Never talk to her again ever. You will heal faster and she will never get closure which is a pain she deserves. This really the only way to get some sort of justice as far as I see it. 

Here is a list I put together of the ones who did it right. 

Pay attention to the last link on the first post. That's the way to do it. 

The ones who are not nice do the best, it gives them immediate control over their life back. Seems you have no kids so there really isn't any reason to be. Unfortunately you picked bad this time. That's life, it happens to most people but see her for what she is which is not worth another minute of your time.


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## RWB

Do not confront. Do not give her any advance or knowledge about what is to come. Most (everyone who had not been there) think a divorce case is some sort of special judgement. It's really not. It's is nothing more than a Civil Suit between 2 individuals. It's really just a Contract Law Suit. DO NOT TIP YOUR HAND. Hopefully you live in a NO FAULT/FAULT state. 

1) GET A GOOD FAMILY LAWYER NOW!
2) DO NOT TELL HER ANYTHING. ACT AS EVERYTHING IS GOOD. 
3) DO NOT TALK ABOUT RECONCILIATION.
4) DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER AGAIN. IT CAN BURY YOU. 
5) KEEP A JOURNAL OF EVERYTHING SHE SAYS TO YOU.
6) NOW! SEPARATE YOUR FIANCES.


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## Marc878

Locate the other mans wife and inform her when you get everything lined out. No warning to your wife!!!


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## skerzoid

FloridaGuy123 said:


> If anyone has any advice, I am all ears, especially on
> - financial stuff. As far as I know, her income is our income and she can't legally cut me off in some way. We have a joint bank account.
> - living arrangements. Gonna be rough living with a bad person. Since she is having the affair, I should ask her to leave. Can I?
> I realize the lawyer will answer a lot of these. However, I am also trying to prepare for that consultation, so please do share anything you've got.


1. Do *not let on* till you are ready to act decisively.

2. *Do as your lawyer advises* if you have confidence in them.

3. *Buy a couple of VARs* (voice activated recorders). Keep one on yourself after she is served so you have a voice record of all transactions with her.

4. If you haven't already, *a PI (Private Investigator) is often worth the money* for additional evidence. Find out if the OM (other man) is married so to expose on D-Day (day of confrontation) spouse if you find he is married.

5. *Have yourself checked for STDs* and do not have sex with her again. Have excuses set up. If you have sex after confronting her, it can indicate forgiveness by a judge.

6. * You probably will not be able to kick her out*. It is her home also.

7. *Be ready to expose* to your and her families & friends as a bargaining chip in negotiations. She will probably want to keep this quiet in her profession and therefore will want to settle quietly. This is to your advantage..

8. *Choose* whether you want her to be publicly served or not. This is also a bargaining chip.

9. *Try to get a hold of* "donesies". He is a poster on here that is a surgeon. His is the opposite situation. His WW (Wayward Wife) foolishly wanted a divorce and got practically nothing. Talking to him would give you some ideas on finances you should be going after. Read his post and then private message him.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/411722-found-out-v-day.html 

10. *Women respect strength, courage, & decisiveness.* Show these when dealing with your WW.


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## Wolfman1968

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 39yo man, *married 3.5 years*. Had suspected my wife of cheating based on unusual behaviors, change in patterns etc. Evidence was scant, but gradually appeared...and like most guys I might have been in denial. After all, months ago we took a ski vacation in the Alps and all was well.
> 
> Proof has arrived. Not evidence, proof. I know who the guy is. He lives out of town. I know where he works but I do not know too much else about him or anything. She doesn't know that I know. However I will soon confront her. Have to. I cannot tolerate this.
> 
> Ours is the classic situation where *I supported her through her medical training,* and she has now begun a job where* her income is upwards of $40k a month before taxes*. In order to support us, *I sold a business*. We moved, and in doing so, limited my professional opportunities. I do well in big cities, we moved to smallish ones. I currently work at a business I started online; it makes about $1,500 a month. She earns an enormous income.
> 
> I am meeting with a lawyer later this week to learn the rules. We live in an apartment and don't have kids, just two dogs. If anyone has any advice, I am all ears, especially on
> 
> - financial stuff. As far as I know, her income is our income and she can't legally cut me off in some way. We have a joint bank account.
> 
> - living arrangements. Gonna be rough living with a bad person. Since she is having the affair, I should ask her to leave. Can I?
> 
> I realize the lawyer will answer a lot of these. However, I am also trying to prepare for that consultation, so please do share anything you've got.


First, you need to talk to your lawyer. IMMEDIATELY.
Your lawyer will give you the REAL info, especially based on your circumstances and your local/state laws.

Also, it's kind of sneaky, but you also might want to find out who the best attorneys in the area are and get a noncommittal "consultation" from each of them. Then, because of conflict of interest, they won't be able to represent your wife in the divorce proceedings.

That being said, I see a few issues with your situation. I deal with doctors and nurses every day, so I am familiar with some of the issues with medical professionals' lives. 

First of all, you say you have been married only 3.5 years. That's not a long-term marriage in most jurisdictions, and you are relatively young, so I think the chance of you getting a long-term (many years) alimony is essentially zero. IF you can somehow establish that you destroyed your business in order to move to the small town where SHE can make a lot of money, then you may get some sort of rehabilitative arrangement to put you right after the sacrifice you made for HER career. However, you have to be able to clearly prove what you lost, and that it was ONLY for her professional benefit to move there. 

Next, you say you supported her for her medical training, and she now earns over $40,000 per month. Now, the typical primary care doc will make about $200,000-ish (low $200k) annually in most areas, so I would speculate that she is not a primary care physician. May I ask what type of specialty/career she has? (I assume she is a physician when you say "medical training"). The reason I say this is because most specialties that earn that kind of income---plastic surgeon, orthopedic surgeon, etc.---have long training times in Residency/Fellowship, typically 5-7 years or more. That means your 3.5 year marriage began AFTER medical school, and therefore you did not pay her way to get the MD degree. In some jurisdictions, like New York, an advance degree acquired during the marriage and paid for with marital funds could be considered a marital asset, and you would therefore possibly be entitled to some of that future earning power. However, since post-MD training does NOT involve any tuition payments, and actually the trainee is PAID a stipend during the training (very low, considering the hours worked/degree of responsibility & training required, but still gets paid), the ability to claim a marital asset would therefore not be present. After all, Resident trainees are able to live on their own just on their stipend if they are single, so the argument that you had to sell your business to support yourselves will not be strong. Instead, it could just be argued that you were living beyond your means during those years and selling your business was just to support an excessive lifestyle, NOT to educate her in her profession. Your lawyer would be able to help you work out these details. 

The exception to the paragraph above would be if her training period was short (the shortest Residencies in the US 3 years, which would be something like Family Practice); even at that, your 3.5 year marriage would mean that you would only be married for the last 6 months of medical school. That would be a hard sell to argue that you paid for her education, unless there was some sort of arrangement BEFORE marriage. However, as I said above, virtually no medical specialty leads to a position paying $40,000 per month with only 3 years of residency. What specialty is she in? The answer might impact your situation. You attorney will help you work this out.

Your best shot here is to somehow establish that you lost your business for her benefit, and get some compensation for that. With the details you provided so far, though, that might be an uphill battle. Again, you really need that attorney NOW.


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## MattMatt

Keep your plans secret and your powder dry.


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## SunCMars

Here's the thing......

Small comfort.
Small comfort is better then no comfort.

You got the best years out of her.

The years that she was truthful.
The years that she was loyal.
The years that she had intrinsic worth.

Until proved otherwise.
Otherwise has now arrived.

You got in under the wire.
You got in her before she turned bad.

You touched, made love to a......clean women.
Clean as a whistle.

You tooted that horn.
That horn is gone.

Only an ogre has the lung power to re-inflate her bell pepper.

Her affair partner did not get the real deal....her.
He got the one with all the hard miles on it....

Her engine may run.
It does not purr.

Her transmission?
Missing it's top gear.
Runs best in reverse.

Her exhaust now smokes.
She put cheap oil in her filler pipe. Fill her crevice.
Now it smokes, smell foul.

Ach, you lovingly polished her body.
Washed, waxed, kept it shiny.

She went out and dented her frame. 
The light no longer reflects straight off her body.
It blinds on comers. Makes you squint.

You got the real her.
You got the best years.

He, the POSOM, he got a clunker.

A wrecked Ferrari.

Still valuable, but not to you.

You got her best years....the years she smelled..right.
I did not put youthful, that would be....so wrong.
Old Roses are still roses.

Some smell, mighty fine.


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## FloridaGuy123

Wolfman1968 said:


> First, you need to talk to your lawyer. IMMEDIATELY.
> Your lawyer will give you the REAL info, especially based on your circumstances and your local/state laws.
> 
> Also, it's kind of sneaky, but you also might want to find out who the best attorneys in the area are and get a noncommittal "consultation" from each of them. Then, because of conflict of interest, they won't be able to represent your wife in the divorce proceedings.
> 
> That being said, I see a few issues with your situation. I deal with doctors and nurses every day, so I am familiar with some of the issues with medical professionals' lives.
> 
> First of all, you say you have been married only 3.5 years. That's not a long-term marriage in most jurisdictions, and you are relatively young, so I think the chance of you getting a long-term (many years) alimony is essentially zero. IF you can somehow establish that you destroyed your business in order to move to the small town where SHE can make a lot of money, then you may get some sort of rehabilitative arrangement to put you right after the sacrifice you made for HER career. However, you have to be able to clearly prove what you lost, and that it was ONLY for her professional benefit to move there.
> 
> Next, you say you supported her for her medical training, and she now earns over $40,000 per month. Now, the typical primary care doc will make about $200,000-ish (low $200k) annually in most areas, so I would speculate that she is not a primary care physician. May I ask what type of specialty/career she has? (I assume she is a physician when you say "medical training"). The reason I say this is because most specialties that earn that kind of income---plastic surgeon, orthopedic surgeon, etc.---have long training times in Residency/Fellowship, typically 5-7 years or more. That means your 3.5 year marriage began AFTER medical school, and therefore you did not pay her way to get the MD degree. In some jurisdictions, like New York, an advance degree acquired during the marriage and paid for with marital funds could be considered a marital asset, and you would therefore possibly be entitled to some of that future earning power. However, since post-MD training does NOT involve any tuition payments, and actually the trainee is PAID a stipend during the training (very low, considering the hours worked/degree of responsibility & training required, but still gets paid), the ability to claim a marital asset would therefore not be present. After all, Resident trainees are able to live on their own just on their stipend if they are single, so the argument that you had to sell your business to support yourselves will not be strong. Instead, it could just be argued that you were living beyond your means during those years and selling your business was just to support an excessive lifestyle, NOT to educate her in her profession. Your lawyer would be able to help you work out these details.
> 
> The exception to the paragraph above would be if her training period was short (the shortest Residencies in the US 3 years, which would be something like Family Practice); even at that, your 3.5 year marriage would mean that you would only be married for the last 6 months of medical school. That would be a hard sell to argue that you paid for her education, unless there was some sort of arrangement BEFORE marriage. However, as I said above, virtually no medical specialty leads to a position paying $40,000 per month with only 3 years of residency. What specialty is she in? The answer might impact your situation. You attorney will help you work this out.
> 
> Your best shot here is to somehow establish that you lost your business for her benefit, and get some compensation for that. With the details you provided so far, though, that might be an uphill battle. Again, you really need that attorney NOW.


Good stuff in here. Attorney happens tomorrow; it was the first day they had. 

Not really looking for / expecting long term support. I am 39 and CAN work again; actually have some decent connections and all that, and I am sure a Court will look and go "this guy can work", which would be accurate. I am not interested in being taken care of for the rest of my life, but I would like to get restored to where I was before we switched directions for her career. Basically zero chance of having sex with her again. I will look into the voice recorders and private detective maybe - talking to lawyer tomorrow so we'll see what they suggest. 

You are correct in that I supported us during fellowship and residency. We lived in "City A" during residency where I was doing well with my business. We moved to City B for fellowship, so I sold the business and, while in City B, paid all the rent and many of the bills, while doing all the day to day stuff you do when your partner works. Then we moved to "City C" for her job; she's a type of surgeon, not getting more specific than that. Smaller cities often have greater demand for higher skill sets and so they pay more. That's the case here. I get your point about the degree being marital asset. I also know that mathematically, her stipend would not support payment of even a modest rent, along with her student loans and other bills. 

Cities B and C are smaller cities and not a place where you see the kind of jobs I have experience with. As such I started another business. It's coming along but it takes time. Post divorce I would move back to "City A." I'll see what all that really means tomorrow; like I said, not looking for a trillion dollars here, just want a bridge back to my pre-marriage life. 

I appreciate all the insights and look forward to others.


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## sokillme

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Good stuff in here. Attorney happens tomorrow; it was the first day they had.
> 
> Not really looking for / expecting long term support. I am 39 and CAN work again; actually have some decent connections and all that, and I am sure a Court will look and go "this guy can work", which would be accurate. I am not interested in being taken care of for the rest of my life, but I would like to get restored to where I was before we switched directions for her career. Basically zero chance of having sex with her again. I will look into the voice recorders and private detective maybe - talking to lawyer tomorrow so we'll see what they suggest.
> 
> You are correct in that I supported us during fellowship and residency. We lived in "City A" during residency where I was doing well with my business. We moved to City B for fellowship, so I sold the business and, while in City B, paid all the rent and many of the bills, while doing all the day to day stuff you do when your partner works. Then we moved to "City C" for her job; she's a type of surgeon, not getting more specific than that. Smaller cities often have greater demand for higher skill sets and so they pay more. That's the case here. I get your point about the degree being marital asset. I also know that mathematically, her stipend would not support payment of even a modest rent, along with her student loans and other bills.
> 
> Cities B and C are smaller cities and not a place where you see the kind of jobs I have experience with. As such I started another business. It's coming along but it takes time. Post divorce I would move back to "City A." I'll see what all that really means tomorrow; like I said, not looking for a trillion dollars here, just want a bridge back to my pre-marriage life.
> 
> I appreciate all the insights and look forward to others.


Lot's of Doctors are narcissists. Maybe it's the life and death thing. You should ask for compensation for expenses lost supporting her through school. Also tell the guys wife if he is married but do it all in a timely way so it's like a bomb going off in her life. It's the least she deserves. Maybe it will wake her up so at least for the rest of her life she can have some honor. Probably not though, the more you read about it most people who cheat are just POS, you are better off keeping them as far away from your life as possible.


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## Graywolf2

My daughter is a surgical resident. She has very little free time. She makes so little that she probably makes less than minimum wage when you count all the hours she puts in. You outlined your story very clearly and believe me I understand it and your desire to be made whole. You may not be able to depending on the law in your state. 

Does your wife want kids? If so that’s’ why she will want to keep you around. A surgeon is always in the hospital and needs someone to do the day to day stuff. When you add kids to the mix they need someone else even more.

My daughter is a babe but I’m afraid she won’t ever be able to find a decent guy that will put up with her seldom being at home. No grandkids for me.

My point is that your wife may not love you but you’re very valuable to her especially if she wants kids


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## 3Xnocharm

Is her affair still ongoing? How did you find out?

Keep moving forward with this, you are doing great so far.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy

I feel you Florida. While I’m not going to give you advice, here’s my story (it’s quite similar to yours). 

Married ExW as she graduated Med school. Followed her for internship, residency (2 locations), and fellowship, and attending gig. 5 moves in 8 years. Found out she cheated pretty much the entire time. I asked for divorce, as soon as she was clearing 5 figures a month. I deserve better than to beg my wife not to **** other guys. 

All I asked was my piece and quiet. She pays for the Attorney and I would not ask for any $$, ever. She reluctantly agreed. 

For me, I just wanted to erase her from my memory. She was dealing with Alphas everyday. And when you make peanuts compared to her coworkers, temptation is just around the corner. 

I was 33 when I bailed. No kids. I’m 5 years removed and could not be happier. 

And oh yeah, I stay away from north FL. There’s a hospital there that’s notorious for infidelity. 

Good luck my friend


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## Robert22205

I think you should get half of her take home pay for the next 5 years or longer - and in return the basis for the divorce will be kept confidential.
You have a strong bargaining chip. I also agree that you should do some additional evidence gathering. A doctor's schedule provides an easy cover for an affair so this may long term or multiple guys. The more evidence the greater your bargaining incentive for her to save face.


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## AtMyEnd

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 39yo man, married 3.5 years. Had suspected my wife of cheating based on unusual behaviors, change in patterns etc. Evidence was scant, but gradually appeared...and like most guys I might have been in denial. After all, months ago we took a ski vacation in the Alps and all was well.
> 
> Proof has arrived. Not evidence, proof. I know who the guy is. He lives out of town. I know where he works but I do not know too much else about him or anything. She doesn't know that I know. However I will soon confront her. Have to. I cannot tolerate this.
> 
> Ours is the classic situation where I supported her through her medical training, and she has now begun a job where her income is upwards of $40k a month before taxes. In order to support us, I sold a business. We moved, and in doing so, limited my professional opportunities. I do well in big cities, we moved to smallish ones. I currently work at a business I started online; it makes about $1,500 a month. She earns an enormous income.
> 
> I am meeting with a lawyer later this week to learn the rules. We live in an apartment and don't have kids, just two dogs. If anyone has any advice, I am all ears, especially on
> 
> - financial stuff. As far as I know, her income is our income and she can't legally cut me off in some way. We have a joint bank account.
> 
> - living arrangements. Gonna be rough living with a bad person. Since she is having the affair, I should ask her to leave. Can I?
> 
> I realize the lawyer will answer a lot of these. However, I am also trying to prepare for that consultation, so please do share anything you've got.


I'm in a similar situation, I finally found 100% proof my wife was having an affair and we are now divorcing, only we do have 1 young son and a house. I make a decent salary but she's an attorney and does make quite a bit more then me. She also started law school after we got married and I supported her though law school and then refinanced our mortgage years later to pay off her high interest school loans. I don't know where you're from but in NY the financial stuff is fairly straight forward. Yes, any and all income is marital income so therefore she can't cut me off even though she recently told me that she was no longer going to have her check deposited in our joint account and only deposit what she "owes" towards our mortgage and bills. Everything in our checking, savings, and any outside accounts that she has that I don't know about yet, I am entitled to half of. As far as my house goes, she wants to stay there and I have no problem with that, but we need to have the house appraised and then she needs to refinance it and take my name off everything, and I get half of the equity in the house after the refinance. Being that your case is similar to mine where she makes more money, depending on where you live, you should also be entitled to monthly alimony. Here in NY they changed the alimony system so it's not a permanent thing anymore and it's only paid monthly for a certain number of years depending on how long the marriage was for. Financially the only things that can't be touched are inheritances or any investments or anything like that which they had prior to the marriage.

As far as living arrangements, again depending where you live, you cannot make either spouse leave before the divorce is final without some type of court order. You can ask her to leave, if she agrees then she's gone. If she does leave and both of your names are on the lease, then she still owes you half of the rent each each as well. The same goes for any vehicles that are in both of your names, even if she leaves and doesn't take the car she still owes half of that payment.

After sitting wife an attorney for a consultation and also sitting for a consultation with a mediator, the spouse who makes less definitely is better off at the end of the day. The only difference for me, and for you, is that since our wives went through graduate school after being married, those degrees are also worth something in the divorce as well. If we go the mediation route it will be harder to get something extra because of her degree, but in a straight divorce it's easier. I am hoping that mediation works though, it's cheaper and more of a business negotiation. With mediation you don't have to go to court for hearings and in my case, my son doesn't have to get caught in the middle of it as much. We'll see how things play out from here, but you definitely have the upper hand.


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## Wolfman1968

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Good stuff in here. Attorney happens tomorrow; it was the first day they had.
> 
> Not really looking for / expecting long term support. I am 39 and CAN work again; actually have some decent connections and all that, and I am sure a Court will look and go "this guy can work", which would be accurate. I am not interested in being taken care of for the rest of my life, but I would like to get restored to where I was before we switched directions for her career. Basically zero chance of having sex with her again. I will look into the voice recorders and private detective maybe - talking to lawyer tomorrow so we'll see what they suggest.
> 
> You are correct in that I supported us during fellowship and residency. We lived in "City A" during residency where I was doing well with my business. We moved to City B for fellowship, so I sold the business and, while in City B, paid all the rent and many of the bills, while doing all the day to day stuff you do when your partner works. Then we moved to "City C" for her job; she's a type of surgeon, not getting more specific than that. Smaller cities often have greater demand for higher skill sets and so they pay more. That's the case here. I get your point about the degree being marital asset. * I also know that mathematically, her stipend would not support payment of even a modest rent, along with her student loans and other bills.
> *
> Cities B and C are smaller cities and not a place where you see the kind of jobs I have experience with. As such I started another business. It's coming along but it takes time. Post divorce I would move back to "City A." I'll see what all that really means tomorrow; like I said, not looking for a trillion dollars here, just want a bridge back to my pre-marriage life.
> 
> I appreciate all the insights and look forward to others.



If the stipend doesn't cover the cost of living, then how do the single trainees survive at that program?


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## FloridaGuy123

Wolfman1968 said:


> If the stipend doesn't cover the cost of living, then how do the single trainees survive at that program?


Borrowing against future earnings. Some people prefer to call them "credit cards"  Other strategies include longer term deferment of loan payments, which results in accrual of interest costs; just another form of borrowing. That's how.


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## michzz

Wolfman1968 said:


> If the stipend doesn't cover the cost of living, then how do the single trainees survive at that program?


Some find "love' and exploit that emotion for support.


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## Robert22205

In addition to the finances of living with her through the 'stress' of residency....there's the additional over the top emotional support and encouragement you provided her every day. She needed an unusual amount of emotional support and encouragement from you ...and you were there for her. Tough to assign a $ amount but still very valuable. And something your lawyer can use in negotiations as an appeal to her conscience or sense of fairness.


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## Wolfman1968

What's the word from the attorney, FloridaGuy?


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## Robert22205

I'm particularly interested in your situation because my son is married to an eye surgeon just completing her residency. And they are moving to a small very isolated community where she can maximize her income. He's an accountant and there's really nothing for him in this move ....he basically will have to change careers and start over. He's always complained about her going off on a co residents' night out where they sit around a table, drink (no food) and talk medicine. They drink enough to get a buzz but not drunk. He's gone along at times and it's boring talk for an outsider. It's difficult to talk with the doctors around you because their life is entirely their work/residency ....so they smile and pretend to be interested in your work or personal life but you soon realize it's a one sided conversation. 

In addition, doctors are used to functioning on little sleep so the night out for drinks is during the week (starts late 10-11) and goes into the early hours. My son doesn't often go along because they start late in the evening and close the bar down (and he has to up at 7am). 

Finally, they work together/bond under lots of stress and work irregular hours which seems to create a very tempting situation for an EA leading to a PA. And she also seems to have a huge sense of entitlement ...which I understand because she saves lives.

In hind sight, were there any early warning signs or action you could have taken early on to discourage cheating? Would open transparent access to her phone and social media accounts, email and text have helped? Or just hope for the best but prepare for the worst using a prenup with a fidelity clause? 
Any advice is welcome.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Wolfman1968 said:


> What's the word from the attorney, FloridaGuy?


I was satisfied - thought he was a good choice. 

Got an overview of the process. He understood and was able to articulate credible arguments to bolster my claim for support, but he said judges view things differently, so I could get a shorter term rehabilitative sum or something as long as the marriage itself. 

Some discussion about assets, income, division thereof and so on 

Mediation is required. He shared some of the arguments against me and we talked through that. He said that the evidence I have for the affair is likely admissible, but suggested I get more. Working on that. Warned me that because of our high income, my wife, once she hires a lawyer, may be encouraged by her lawyer to drag on the process and make it less pleasant. (more billables, etc)

I had actually planned to confront my wife soon, and he said hold off on that, see if she comes clean, etc. So I am in a holding and evidence gathering mode. No big surprises overall. 

Just trying to be patient now.


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## Lostinthought61

what about hiring a PI?


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## Kamstel

Good for you. Glad you like the lawyer.

Have you hired a PI to gather more evidence?


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## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> I'm particularly interested in your situation because my son is married to an eye surgeon just completing her residency. And they are moving to a small very isolated community where she can maximize her income. He's an accountant and there's really nothing for him in this move ....he basically will have to change careers and start over.


This can be unpleasant. I started an online biz, joined a cool gym, made some friends and started reading more. You make of it what you can, and with a surgeon's income, friends and family are a flight away. Or they can visit him, because he'll have a nice house. A lot of times, happiness is a choice. Part of our strategy was a beach house in an area we like. 

Your son's wife may come to miss her classmates and have a hard time making friends in the new (small) place. My wife's friends here are pretty meh. So your son may want to be ready for his wife to lament her lack of friends or to hang out with less-than-fantastic people. She may come to miss her classmates. 



> He's always complained about her going off on a co residents' night out where they sit around a table, drink (no food) and talk medicine. They drink enough to get a buzz but not drunk. He's gone along at times and *it's boring talk for an outsider*.


This can be tough. I tried to use it as a chance to learn about the body. I would ask medical questions or ask them about what they did in the operating room. When things were better with my wife, we had a lot of conversations like this and I always enjoyed it. But either way, she's entitled to her time with friends and this can be an important thing for residents. It's a hard life and those bonds are genuine and usually not sexual. My wife and her residency classmates still have a group text and it's been years.



> It's difficult to talk with the doctors around you because their life is entirely their work/residency ....so they smile and pretend to be interested in your work or personal life but you soon realize it's a one sided conversation.


I know this sounds awfully pretentious, but I am well-above-average athletic and attractive. Even at 39 I have no gray hair, nearly all the hair I had at 19, and nice blue eyes that are six feet off the ground when I'm standing up. Her friends and colleagues - male and female - often wanted to talk to me and hear about what I was up to. I never felt shut out of the conversations. Social stuff has always been easy for me though, and I always felt like the other docs wanted to talk to me because I was an outsider and they wanted to know what the "outside world" was like. Maybe they just thought I was pretty. Either way this was not my issue. 



> In addition, doctors are used to functioning on little sleep so the night out for drinks is during the week (starts late 10-11) and goes into the early hours. My son doesn't often go along because they start late in the evening and close the bar down (and he has to up at 7am).


This may change. My wife and I now love going to bed early. When things were better, we'd be in bed by 9 and proud of it. 




> Finally, they work together/bond under lots of stress and work irregular hours which seems to create a very tempting situation for an EA leading to a PA. And she also seems to have a huge sense of entitlement ...which I understand because she saves lives.


Surgeons think they're special. They are...at work. Outside of work they're just awkward nerds who prefer books to people. If the entitlement continues outside of work, it's possibly a problem. Life has a way of humbling the entitled; you may fix eyes or transplant organs, but when you're in line at the supermarket, no one gives a ****. Most of life - outside the home, anyway - is the equivalent of standing in line at the supermarket, not being the hero in the OR. How she copes with the inevitable humbling is the issue. If she's healthy, she'll embrace books and travel and spending time with your son and finding ways to grow as a person and wife. If she's unhealthy, it'll be some type of self-medicating. He can be supportive but she has to permit him to do so.



> In hind sight, were there any early warning signs or action you could have taken early on to discourage cheating? Would open transparent access to her phone and social media accounts, email and text have helped? Or just hope for the best but prepare for the worst using a prenup with a fidelity clause?
> Any advice is welcome.


You can't change what a person *is*. I am routinely approached by women. Was at lunch the other day and some 30ish woman dropped off her phone number at my table and walked away. A month ago I was on the road and a woman started a conversation with me at a restaurant, told me where she was staying and said it was her last night in town. As a single guy I would have slept with each of them. As a married guy I won't. I'm not perfect, but I'm not a cheater. You can't change what a person is. 

The only red flag is that her parents had a bad marriage. Her Dad had a long term affair and is a very selfish guy. Her Mom is a nice lady. My wife spends a lot of time lamenting what a **** her dad is/was, and now goes out and does the exact same thing. 

But no, there were no other red flags.


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## notmyrealname4

@FloridaGuy123

Sorry you are going through this demoralizing experience.

But I sure hope your attorney can sock it to her in some way, for your benefit.

I have an especial loathing for people who use their partner to put them through school; then dump them when their career starts to take off.

It used to mostly be the behavior of successful men. But now we see women doing the same thing. Yuck.

Of course you don't want to be living on alimony the rest of your life; but you should get *some* kind of remuneration.

Best of luck going forward in general, and with your own career.


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## Robert22205

I can't imagine the emotions you're feeling living with her day to day. It must be incredibly frustrating as well as tempting to confront her.
At this point you playing a part in a movie.

Is there any change in her level of interest towards you .... same hugs, smiles, laugh and eye contact.
How have conversations with her changed? Are you still discussing the future or date night. Is it your sense she's thinking about exiting the marriage or she enjoys being married but wants something extra?

Does your wife dress stylishly? Does she make heads turn when she walks into Starbucks? Did she have a active social/dating experience in HS and College and Med School? Could she be trying to catch up on what she thinks she missed in life due to all her studying and training?


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## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> I can't imagine the emotions you're feeling living with her day to day. It must be incredibly frustrating as well as tempting to confront her.
> At this point you playing a part in a movie.


Several parts. Husband. Detective. Dog parent. In-law. Yeah, it's a lot to carry around and with the installation of voice recorders, I suspect the load is going to get heavier. It hurts a lot but I often recall that a lot of dead people would like to be alive with these problems. I'm not interested in self pity. This is life. Let's deal. 



> Is there any change in her level of interest towards you .... same hugs, smiles, laugh and eye contact.
> How have conversations with her changed? Are you still discussing the future or date night. Is it your sense she's thinking about exiting the marriage or she enjoys being married but wants something extra?


Affection etc for me is way down. She is surely thinking of exiting the marriage. I don't believe this is a strategic decision but a knee-jerk. If she was cheating with a Nobel Prize winning physician or high powered financial guy or entertainer, it would be loathsome but it would also on some level be comprehensible. She is cheating with a schlump. Maybe she wants to be the big dog and the boss in the relationship. I treat her as an equal. 



> Does your wife dress stylishly? Does she make heads turn when she walks into Starbucks?


She's an awkward nerd. Scrubs most days, professional dress (Ann Taylor, not Saks) on office days. On her time it's very casual. She's never BEEN to a Neiman Marcus, doesn't know what Barney's is and owns nothing fancy. Her awkward nerdiness in a sea of glamorous Miami ho's is what I fell for and what I still love.



> Did she have a active social/dating experience in HS and College and Med School?


I didn't know her then but I am guessing no. The temperament that produces a surgeon rarely overlaps with the characteristics that produce a Homecoming Queen. 



> Could she be trying to catch up on what she thinks she missed in life due to all her studying and training?


It's distinctly possible. But she ended up with a loving and devoted husband who is also (in her words) the best looking guy she ever dated. So if she wants to go ride the **** Carousel, that's a strange decision for a woman who focused so much on one goal. However, I obviously do not know what makes her tick as well as I thought I did. 

One day at a time.


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## BluesPower

I have to say that you are doing so great. 

I know you are hurting, but you are doing the right thing. 

Just keep it up...


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## Robert22205

How does a surgeon get involved with a loser (is he at least physically attractive)? I admire your strength and determination to press forward.
None of this is your fault in any way...it's strictly on her. You are not alone.


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## Rubix Cubed

BluesPower said:


> I have to say that you are doing so great.
> 
> I know you are hurting, but you are doing the right thing.
> 
> Just keep it up...


 I second this. You have an amazing amount of clarity and insight. Stay the course and you will come out the other side just fine.


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## jlg07

@FloridaGuy123, you say "Proof has arrived. Not evidence, proof."
Curious turn of phrase there -- what "proof" did you get that is not evidence? How did you find out about her cheating and how did you get this definitive "proof"?


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## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> How does a surgeon get involved with a loser (is he at least physically attractive)? I admire your strength and determination to press forward.
> None of this is your fault in any way...it's strictly on her. You are not alone.


No, he's not. He truly is not. Joe Average in appearance, education and success. She is feeding a demon in her head; it's a tough place to be for her. It's rough for me too, but I'm not feeding a demon. I'm breathing clear air. It sucks right now, but as you said, I didn't wreck the marriage.

Gotta press forward. If I fight, I will be pressed forward anyway, and just be tired.


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## farsidejunky

I think you know this, but her choice in AP is a reflection of how she sees herself.

The broken nature of waywards is why so many affair down. 

They subconsciously pursue that which they believe they deserve. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Robert22205

Is the AP married? Do you have a time line or plan for serving her with a notice of divorce and the confrontation? Will you show her your proof during the confrontation? Not that the proof matters at that point.

Have you considered first serving the divorce paperwork at her office (or while she’s with her ‘friends’), and then have the follow up confrontation afterward (after she’s been officially exposed)? 

Since you have advance notice, will your attorney draw up a short 1 page “financial settlement” - that she can sign immediately as part of the confrontation? 
Her incentive is guilt and possibly a desire to protect her reputation (if you also agree to nondisclosure). 

Sad she’s following in her father’s footsteps. Maybe she’d prefer that her mother not learn of her adultery since your wife’s behavior shows a lack of empathy for her mother’s pain. Whatever her demon is it's not your fault nor your job to tolerate or attempt to fix....especially since there are no children impacted by her behavior. You can't control her behavior - just your own. Stay strong and stick to your plan.


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## FloridaGuy123

farsidejunky said:


> I think you know this, but her choice in AP is a reflection of how she sees herself.
> 
> The broken nature of waywards is why so many affair down.
> 
> They subconsciously pursue that which they believe they deserve.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


She has a good friend from college who we see several times a year. It's probably her oldest and closest friend. Let's call her Sarah. She recently lamented to me that she hasn't talked to Sarah in a while, and they used to talk all the time. 

When you're in the midst of this, when your marriage is wobbly, when you're not sure what to do...you tend to blame yourself. This admission that she's lost touch with an old and close friend is additional evidence that it is not I who has changed. 

It doesn't make me any happier. It still sucks elephant-sized balls. But it helps with perspective. Having fulfilled her career goal, she is now getting to work on personal goals, or as you said, pursuing what she thinks she deserves. The toughest part of all this is knowing there is nothing I can do. She is simply making her choices.


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## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> Is the AP married? Do you have a time line or plan for serving her with a notice of divorce and the confrontation? Will you show her your proof during the confrontation? Not that the proof matters at that point.
> 
> Have you considered first serving the divorce paperwork at her office (or while she’s with her ‘friends’), and then have the follow up confrontation afterward (after she’s been officially exposed)?
> 
> Since you have advance notice, will your attorney draw up a short 1 page “financial settlement” - that she can sign immediately as part of the confrontation?
> Her incentive is guilt and possibly a desire to protect her reputation (if you also agree to nondisclosure).
> 
> Sad she’s following in her father’s footsteps. Maybe she’d prefer that her mother not learn of her adultery since your wife’s behavior shows a lack of empathy for her mother’s pain. Whatever her demon is it's not your fault nor your job to tolerate or attempt to fix....especially since there are no children impacted by her behavior. You can't control her behavior - just your own. Stay strong and stick to your plan.


I'm not sure if he is married. I think he is divorced, but not 100%. My lawyer said he can find out easy enough so I will leave that to him. When it comes time to play that card, we will. 

As far as a timeline and a resolution process, I am following the advice of counsel. I'm paying him to be dispassionate, after all. He said don't confront yet. _She's digging a hole. Don't interrupt._ In fact, when a confrontation does happen, he advised I reveal as little as possible.  He has suggested that she is also in contact with an attorney, and probably has NOT revealed to her attorney that she's cheating. He said they never do. So I'm holding back on the evidence for now. My lawyer knows. 

I would prefer a quick resolution, I've walked through counter arguments from her (potential) lawyer, and when the time comes, we will resolve things. Whatever negotiating leverage we have, I'll use when the time comes.


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## seadoug105

I'm really sorry you find yourself hear. It never ceases to amaze me, how when people seem to have it all that want something else. You can't fix something if you don't know its broken; and I'm pretty sure she doesn't realize she is whats broken.

Has she said/implied she's not happy?

Does she even have a clue?

Assuming that she doesn't have a clue, will he first clue be when she is served? 


In the end NYMNYC (Not Your Monkey, Not Your Circus).

Stay strong, walk tall, & live right!


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## Marc878

FloridaGuy123 said:


> She has a good friend from college who we see several times a year. It's probably her oldest and closest friend. Let's call her Sarah. She recently lamented to me that she hasn't talked to Sarah in a while, and they used to talk all the time.
> 
> When you're in the midst of this, when your marriage is wobbly, when you're not sure what to do...you tend to blame yourself. This admission that she's lost touch with an old and close friend is additional evidence that it is not I who has changed.
> 
> It doesn't make me any happier. It still sucks elephant-sized balls. But it helps with perspective. Having fulfilled her career goal, she is now getting to work on personal goals, or as you said, pursuing what she thinks she deserves. The toughest part of all this is knowing there is nothing I can do. *She is simply making her choices*.


You are correct. It's a choice not a mistake. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. The worst thing people do in these situations is to be indecisive. All that does is keep you wallowing in the mire of infidelity longer than you have to.

The only one that can keep you in this mess is you. Keep moving forward and you'll be fine.

She made her choice. Time to make yours.


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## Robert22205

If you want her to dig the hole deeper ....announce you're going out of town overnight.


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## FloridaGuy123

Things are getting surreal.

I put a VAR in the car. Hoped to get phone calls or whatever. I got a recording of my wife meeting with this guy (he lives out of town; he was in town) and having a conversation one morning. I suppose she met up with him on the way to work or something? Except he lives in another city. _I was actually shocked that their affair was so well developed_. I naively thought this affair would be a side-hookup kind of thing. It is not. There is an actual relationship going on. They talked about their respective jobs and co-workers, what their day looked like and so on. I'm not MORE or LESS upset by it; that ship has sailed and I've made peace. I'm genuinely surprised. 

Curious things:

- A lot of topics were discussed. Not discussed: *me.* Does this guy know she's married? If so, she sure wasn't mentioning it. 

- That woman on the recording was my wife, but...also wasn't. Something has perceptibly changed 

Email to lawyer, private investigator is next stop. Rough seas over here.


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## Kamstel

I’m so sorry.

That woman who you heard is NOT the woman you married. The woman you married died sometime ago. This new woman, this unknown woman is just inhabiting her old body.

Tell your lawyer that you need to expedite the process as much as possible. No one should have to live in Hell!

Hang in there, and lean on any friends you have, whether they are local or long distance


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## Marc878

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Things are getting surreal.
> 
> I put a VAR in the car. Hoped to get phone calls or whatever. I got a recording of my wife meeting with this guy (he lives out of town; he was in town) and having a conversation one morning. I suppose she met up with him on the way to work or something? Except he lives in another city. _I was actually shocked that their affair was so well developed_. I naively thought this affair would be a side-hookup kind of thing. It is not. There is an actual relationship going on. They talked about their respective jobs and co-workers, what their day looked like and so on. I'm not MORE or LESS upset by it; that ship has sailed and I've made peace. I'm genuinely surprised.
> 
> Curious things:
> 
> - A lot of topics were discussed. Not discussed: *me.* *Does this guy know she's married? If so, she sure wasn't mentioning it. *
> 
> - That woman on the recording was my wife, but...also wasn't. Something has perceptibly changed
> 
> Email to lawyer, private investigator is next stop. Rough seas over here.


Like you said it Doesn't really matter. I would inform or deposition him though.


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## Marc878

Looking past this she will like most want to be "friends". So prepare for that stupidity


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## FloridaGuy123

These days, I am preparing for as much stupidity as I can. The corporate world has taught me that litigation is about out-preparing the adverse party. I will do this. I've talked through the potential arguments coming back at me and I am ready. Evidence gathering continues so that when the process starts, there is as little wiggle room as possible. Everything is geared to the long term view of preparing for the rest of my life, not getting bogged down in already decided drama. 

Does it hurt? Imagine saying good-bye in your head to a woman you loved more than you ever thought possible. Yeah it hurts. I actually said the words "Goodbye *wife's name*" to myself and it was the saddest thing I have ever had to do. I expected I might do that aged 90, not aged 40. I was in the military and saw young people die. On a personal level, this is worse. 

Yet the Sun will rise tomorrow, and it isn't going to ask me how I am feeling. it's just going to heat a world for me to live in...and I am going to live in it, not hide from it. My goal in resolving this is to make her accept the consequences of her actions. Nothing less than accepting the consequences of betraying a short marriage, and nothing more. Split the marital assets, pay your support, and go away and live the life you want. I'll even agree to nondisclosure so her Mom, who is a sweet lady, doesn't have to age and die knowing her smartest kid is a dysfunctional replica of her Dad...who treated her Mom like ****. I'm not interested in humiliating anyone. That only leaves more scars, and there have been enough of those already. 

I take little pleasure in the prospect of grinding her into dust or wrecking her emotionally. It's just not what I am about. You did your actions. Take the consequences and go live your life. I wish you happiness - but it's not gonna be my job anymore to help you find it. That's where I am at. Right now it's about making the transition as quick and painless as I can.


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## BluesPower

Brother, you are doing so well with this. 

Just be aware of some things so they will not blindside you. 

1) When you find the full extent of the affair, it will shock you, even though you are prepared for it. 

2) Probably the reason that you are controlling your emotions as well as you are is your combat experience. But as you probably know, the emotions and grief surrounding your wife's affair and the demise of your marriage, will hit you at some point. And no you have no really felt them yet even though it hurts as bad as it does.

Just understand that it will happen at some point and you don't know when. 

Man, keep on doing what you are doing, and stay strong...


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## Marc878

You have the correct mindset now but like a lot keeping it is another thing.

Financials are key!!!! Get what you deserve. You won't have a second chance.


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## FloridaGuy123

BluesPower said:


> Brother, you are doing so well with this.
> 
> Just be aware of some things so they will not blindside you.
> 
> 1) When you find the full extent of the affair, it will shock you, even though you are prepared for it.


That sort of happened with the recording. This guy knows about my wife's co-workers, their spouses, where they travel etc. *He knows more than I do.* The sex stuff is whatever - I've made peace with that. That disgusts me, but I am nearly 40, not 19. People have sex. 

I suspect I will learn it is even worse. I had a thought a minute ago: Last month, sort of out of the blue, she proposed a "night in" where we'd hook up for the first time in like 2-3 months. I said yes. This was before I was sure of the affair. 

It didn't go as planned. She got like 4 pages from work and the dogs were relentless about either getting in the bed or barking and crying if we put them outside of the room. When we finally agreed to NOT continue, she absolutely melted down into hysterics beyond anything I had ever seen from her. 

It seemed way out of proportion but I excused it as marital stress, because we had been having quite a bit. As the dots have connected I have come to realize she may have been pregnant and wanted to shift that over to me. That explanation actually makes the most sense for the random desire to hook up and the insanely disproportional reaction when we didn't. 

I actually am not 100% sure she is NOT pregnant right now. She hasn't mentioned her period in a while, but then again who knows? So yeah, I am beginning to realize that when a person breaks, there is no bottom to their tragedy until it's a true rock-bottom. I appreciate the reminder. 




> 2) Probably the reason that you are controlling your emotions as well as you are is your combat experience. But as you probably know, the emotions and grief surrounding your wife's affair and the demise of your marriage, will hit you at some point. And no you have no really felt them yet even though it hurts as bad as it does.


Thanks. I will deal with it as it happens and remind myself that the pain is a reminder that I am still alive. For what it's worth, we just ate lunch together and this guy called her twice. She sent the calls to VM and pretended they were work. I played along, because that is what I am doing now. But yeah, man, I just found an old picture of the first house we moved into just after we got married. It was an ordinary place. We were sitting on the front steps, having just set it up,. There's so much happiness in that photo, and now there is so little. That hurts, because our successes should have increased our happiness, and that picture takes me back to a time that will never exist again: the boundless joy of a new couple on their first adventure. It's a little piece of junk house, but there we are on the front steps, living our lives. Maybe one day I will find another wife, certainly no hurry, you can believe that. But let's say one day maybe I do and we have our first house together. I can be happy, but I can never experience it as purely as I did back then. 

But I'm here. I'm alive. I'm ok. This will get resolved and I will remember the happy and sad times as part of the way the world works. 



> Man, keep on doing what you are doing, and stay strong...


Legal update tomorrow. More to come.


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## Marc878

You only need so much evidence.

It's not healthy staying in something like this so I'd move quickly once the attorney gives you the green light. It'll sting I'm sure but no one needs to go through this for a long period of time. 

You've got your head on straight. Indecision is what creeps in for a lot in these situations and they keep themselves bound up in limbo.

Great job so far.


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## Marc878

Don't let nostalgia interfere with what you need to do. It's emotional but fleeting and will not change what's happening. We all get those thoughts.


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## Rubix Cubed

Marc878 said:


> You've got your head on straight. Indecision is what creeps in for a lot in these situations and they keep themselves bound up in limbo.
> 
> Great job so far.


 Not only is your head screwed on straight but you express your thoughts very well. stay on your path, it will lead you right by the long-term misery that Betrayed spouse often subject themselves to by not taking succinct action.


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## BobSimmons

I don't the same old cliche, this is not the woman you married.

This absolute is. Just perhaps a more honest representation without the falsehoods and the veneer of propriety.

Sad you have to marry someone for them to truly reveal all of themselves.

The selfish want the best of two worlds, a marriage and some fun on the side.

If she truly had the courage of her convictions she would have left you and got with this guy.

For your sake, I hope you sever the cord soon. Can't imagine it's doing much for your head eating lunch while he calls her and you just sitting there smiling...or the thought she wanted to have sex with you because she was pregnant...which means she probably terminated.

Disgusting.


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## Chaparral

No sex for two or three months? When did that abysmal routine start? Dogs in the bedroom? Lesson learned.

This sounds like a really long term affair? When did she start treating you differently?


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## RWB

BobSimmons said:


> *Sad you have to marry someone for them to truly reveal all of themselves.*


QFT.

I'll add... DD + 15min, learned more about who my WW really was than 30+ years of marriage.


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## Robert22205

Ouch! That recording had to hit hard. I'm sorry you have to go through this ordeal. This situation is not your fault. People change (or you just didn't really know her) - and just a reminder that you're now dealing with a stranger (who is no longer your friend or trustworthy). The conversations (whether used in court or not ... or ever revealed to her) not only justify gathering additional evidence but reinforce/clarify 'who' you're dealing with (very important intelligence in planning your exit strategy from this person). 

Hire a PI and leave town for a couple of nights (i.e., open the door for the love birds) ....and then collect additional evidence while minimizing the PI cost. 

If you suspect she's been talking to a lawyer, then she may have been advised to spy on you. Her lawyer may have hired someone to spy on you or advise her on how to do it. Just a thought.

Based on your personal & professional description & social skills, since her dad cheated, is it possible that she's always been insecure about you and the long term viability of your marriage (jealous) - and suspicious of your out of town trips? And possibly using that insecurity to motivate or justify her behavior?


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## FloridaGuy123

Marc878 said:


> Don't let nostalgia interfere with what you need to do. It's emotional but fleeting and will not change what's happening. We all get those thoughts.


No doubt. Emotions creep in, but reality always hits back harder.


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## CantBelieveThis

RWB said:


> QFT.
> 
> I'll add... DD + 15min, learned more about who my WW really was than 30+ years of marriage.


Dam man I can't even relate to that, sucks big time

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## CantBelieveThis

"
" Does it hurt? Imagine saying good-bye in your head to a woman you loved more than you ever thought possible. Yeah it hurts. I actually said the words "Goodbye *wife's name*" to myself and it was the saddest thing I have ever had to do. I expected I might do that aged 90, not aged 40. I was in the military and saw young people die. On a personal level, this is worse. "

Just know that all normal man, if u didn't have those feelings we would question whether u were really in love w her
Its normal for it to hurt, is normal for you to grieve your loss... Unfortunately there is no way around it but thru it, it has to happen. But it does eventually subside and you will look back and see it was just a tragedy life threw at you. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Thor

Graywolf2 said:


> My daughter is a babe but I’m afraid she won’t ever be able to find a decent guy that will put up with her seldom being at home. No grandkids for me.


Hey, Graywolf, just wanted to say this doesn't have to be so. My dentist is a husband/wife duo who have a thriving private practice. It is only open Monday through Thursday, and each of them only worked 3 days of that when the kids were little. There were only 2 days per week when one or the other of them wasn't home with the kids! And they always had a 3 day weekend together. Now that the kids are high school or college age they both work all 4 days. They make very good money per hour and they don't live a crazy rock star lifestyle, so they are very comfortable. They love to travel, which is where they spend money like going on an Alaska cruise. Otherwise they live a nice upper middle class lifestyle.

My point is that it is a choice to work crazy hours or not to. Yes one does have to accept lesser earnings, and maybe they don't ever become president of the state professional surgeon's organization. But there is a good amount of family time and plenty of money if one is careful with spending. It is all about the priorities.


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## BluesPower

Just like a lot of these cases, it is hard to decide which is worse, or is it all the same. 

But to think that she tried to have sex with her H because she was pregnant by to OM is just about as low as it goes. 

OP, may now "Know" know but there is no other explanation. She wanted to stick him with OM's baby, and when it did not work out she knew she was going to have to abort. 

I mean, I have seen some really bad ones before, but wow, it does not get much worse than that...


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## FloridaGuy123

HTML:







Robert22205 said:


> Ouch! That recording had to hit hard. I'm sorry you have to go through this ordeal. This situation is not your fault. People change (or you just didn't really know her) - and just a reminder that you're now dealing with a stranger (who is no longer your friend or trustworthy). The conversations (whether used in court or not ... or ever revealed to her) not only justify gathering additional evidence but reinforce/clarify 'who' you're dealing with (very important intelligence in planning your exit strategy from this person).


it hurt, but it was also _strange_. It was NOT (a) My husband sucks or (b) I can't wait for you to **** me again or (c) I'm so excited about our weekend away in Napa...or anything I thought might be there. It was the most mundane **** you can imagine. I'm waiting to hear about what a loser I am, or how awesome and fantastic this guy is, or all the wonderful stuff they're going to do together and it never happens. It's just inane_ blah blah blah. _ So it hurt, but it also evaporated any feelings that I was an inadequate husband.

This guy manages an ordinary retail store that everyone can afford to shop at, and half the conversation was about an upcoming inspection by corporate and how his assistant managers weren't helping enough. Another 30% was her complaining about her work and then there was a little bit about sports, which is his thing and not (at all) hers. In short it was incredibly ordinary and boring. I walked away feeling sad, but no sadder - there was nothing in there that reflected any obvious failings on my part. If she came home and told me she was leaving me for some super amazing, awesome guy I might feel somehow like a loser or like I wasn't good enough or I failed. But after hearing this...I'm more certain than ever that I am NOT the problem.



> If you suspect she's been talking to a lawyer, then she may have been advised to spy on you. Her lawyer may have hired someone to spy on you or advise her on how to do it. Just a thought.


Rule 1 of this stuff: If you are doing something, assume it's being done to you. Apply that to life in general and things are easier. 

I go to the same breakfast place most days. My wife knows - we come here together too. The other day I notice this woman, 40ish, stout but athletic, and I just get this vibe: that's a cop. I'm ex military and a lot of my friends are police, I know a lot of cops because of that, and she just gave off the cop vibe through her posture, appearance etc. No big deal. Cops have to eat too. Then I leave the store and walk across the street to a store to get printer ink. I get to checkout and I notice she's in there. 

So I said hello and said "we must be on the same schedule", and asked her if her next stop was the supermarket, because mine was. She awkwardly said no. Can't help but wonder if that was a former cop or an off duty cop investigating me. Probably not, but it seemed fishy, and my mornings are quite routine so I'd be easy to find. Anyway, if there is a PI on my trail, I hope they have a pillow, because if they're looking for extra-curricular activities, it'll be the most boring job they ever do. The greatest sin I've committed is a second glance at the college girls who eat here.


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## Tobyboy

Maybe I missed it, in your opening post you mentioned “proof”, can you elaborate?


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## FloridaGuy123

Tobyboy said:


> Maybe I missed it, in your opening post you mentioned “proof”, can you elaborate?


Not yet. Not until after the legal process commences.


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## bandit.45

Floridaman this thread has ripped my heart out. I feel so bad for you. And I doff my chapeau to you for the extraordinary class and control you have shown during the worst time in your life. 

You are doing everything right. I honestly cannot find fault anywhere. So I will offer a few observations:

'it hurt, but it was also strange. It was NOT (a) My husband sucks or (b) I can't wait for you to **** me again or (c) I'm so excited about our weekend away in Napa...or anything I thought might be there. It was the most mundane **** you can imagine. I'm waiting to hear about what a loser I am, or how awesome and fantastic this guy is, or all the wonderful stuff they're going to do together and it never happens. It's just inane blah blah blah. So it hurt, but it also evaporated any feelings that I was an inadequate husband.'

What you are witnessing here is classic compartmentalization. Your wife is literally living two different lives. When she is with you she puts on the Floridaman's Wife hat, and behaves around you like she always does (except for the sex). When she is with Loverboy she boxes you up and pushes you to the back of the shelf. Never do the two worlds meet. Compartmentalization is a classic coping skill that cheaters display, and it is quite common. I do not believe that she thinks of you as a bad husband or lacking in any way. She doesn't think that, because honestly, when she is with her OM she doesn't think of you at all. 

You are never allowed in her thoughts during the time she is in fantasyland. And that is what her affair is: a fantasy. With you there are bills and a mortgage and dogs to take care of and all the other drudgery of life. With the OM it's all romance and fun. He comes with none of the baggage and responsibility. Your WW is an escapist. She doesn't have the coping skills or the emotional maturity to be married to you and she knows it, so she picks a loser...someone she can control and manipulate in order to get her emotional needs met without having to worry about all that real-life stuff that she has with you. 

And then there is a component of neediness. I'm going to g out on a limb here and you tell me if I am wrong: she needed you to support her while she went through medical school. You paid the bills, put a roof over her head, and handled all the logistics while she spent 18 hours a day living and breathing medicine. During those years she lost the ability to control her world and herself. She became dependent on you, and you took on a fatherly/parental role. Now that she is the one making the money and now finds herself as the main breadwinner...she doesn't know what to do with it. She is an unsocialized mess lacking in day-to-day coping skills, and she resents you because now she sees you as dad, but you are also her burden and something she no longer needs in her life. You were important to her for the time you were useful, but now she wants you to go away . 

It is devastating to know you were used by someone and are now deemed expendable.


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## Tobyboy

Two words. Exit affair.


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## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> Floridaman this thread has ripped my heart out. I feel so bad for you. And I doff my chapeau to you for the extraordinary class and control you have shown during the worst time in your life.
> 
> You are doing everything right. I honestly cannot find fault anywhere. So I will offer a few observations:
> 
> 'it hurt, but it was also strange. It was NOT (a) My husband sucks or (b) I can't wait for you to **** me again or (c) I'm so excited about our weekend away in Napa...or anything I thought might be there. It was the most mundane **** you can imagine. I'm waiting to hear about what a loser I am, or how awesome and fantastic this guy is, or all the wonderful stuff they're going to do together and it never happens. It's just inane blah blah blah. So it hurt, but it also evaporated any feelings that I was an inadequate husband.'
> 
> What you are witnessing here is classic compartmentalization. Your wife is literally living two different lives. When she is with you she puts on the Floridaman's Wife hat, and behaves around you like she always does (except for the sex). When she is with Loverboy she boxes you up and pushes you to the back of the shelf. Never do the two worlds meet. Compartmentalization is a classic coping skill that cheaters display, and it is quite common. I do not believe that she thinks of you as a bad husband or lacking in any way. She doesn't think that, because honestly, when she is with her OM she doesn't think of you at all.
> 
> You are never allowed in her thoughts during the time she is in fantasyland. And that is what her affair is: a fantasy. With you there are bills and a mortgage and dogs to take care of and all the other drudgery of life. With the OM it's all romance and fun. He comes with none of the baggage and responsibility. Your WW is an escapist. She doesn't have the coping skills or the emotional maturity to be married to you and she knows it, so she picks a loser...someone she can control and manipulate in order to get her emotional needs met without having to worry about all that real-life stuff that she has with you.
> 
> And then there is a component of neediness. I'm going to g out on a limb here and you tell me if I am wrong: she needed you to support her while she went through medical school. You paid the bills, put a roof over her head, and handled all the logistics while she spent 18 hours a day living and breathing medicine. During those years she lost the ability to control her world and herself. She became dependent on you, and you took on a fatherly/parental role. Now that she is the one making the money and now finds herself as the main breadwinner...she doesn't know what to do with it. She is an unsocialized mess lacking in day-to-day coping skills, and she resents you because now she sees you as dad, but you are also her burden and something she no longer needs in her life. You were important to her for the time you were useful, but now she wants you to go away .
> 
> It is devastating to know you were used by someone and are now deemed expendable.


QFT. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Rick Blaine

Florida,
Very sorry you are going through this. You sound like a man of substance and it would seem your wife just has a restless heart that will never mend. None of her choices reflect on you. You don't have control over her lack of commitment and character. 

You mentioned earlier that though you are reconciled to what has happened and are moving forward with your life, it still hurts and is hard to accept. Yes, acceptance is the hardest aspect of infidelity and divorce. When I divorced my wife I looked forward, not back. But 30 years is a long time and the roots run deep and wide. You don't just uproot a giant sequoia and move on in a second. It takes time. I remember once being at a retreat at the time I was going through divorce, and the leader played a song called "Sacred Silence" on his guitar. While he was singing, I envisioned my wife and I facing each other underwater, horizontal, and connected by our hands and our stretched arms. We finally let go and our bodies slowly drifted apart until finally we could no longer see each other. I was overcome by emotion in that moment. Fast forward two years I can tell you that the farther we drifted apart the more I have healed. This too shall pass, and you will rediscover happiness in time if you allow the grieving process time. 

You are handling this tragedy with incredible poise and tact. I hope a lot of other betrayed spouses read this thread and learn from you. God bless!


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## BarbedFenceRider

I had a bud in the fire dept. that had the same thing happen to him....He is tall, good looking, a freakin' firefighter! He puts his "wife" through school. She ends up with the medicine degree....Then she hooks up with some greasy mechanic from a midas store! LOL. You can't make this crap up. I feel so sorry Florida. I wish you the best. And an emotional 2x4 to her head! Hope your attorney can give you some satisfaction in this area. 

One thing you did say is that you didn't wish to involve her mom. Nope, MIL adores you as well, and needs to know the truth. Just playin' nicey and keeping it quiet gives cheaters a pass. Sure you get a little cash, your vindicated as you kept your oath and fidelity. But you are still without a family, wife and lets be honest....You are not getting any younger. I would let as many people know as possible. The truth should set you free. Not be a yoke that you carry while Bacchus parties!


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## Marc878

FloridaGuy123 said:


> HTML:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it hurt, but it was also _strange_. It was NOT (a) My husband sucks or (b) I can't wait for you to **** me again or (c) I'm so excited about our weekend away in Napa...or anything I thought might be there. It was the most mundane **** you can imagine. I'm waiting to hear about what a loser I am, or how awesome and fantastic this guy is, or all the wonderful stuff they're going to do together and it never happens. It's just inane_ blah blah blah. _ So it hurt, but it also evaporated any feelings that I was an inadequate husband.
> 
> This guy manages an ordinary retail store that everyone can afford to shop at, and half the conversation was about an upcoming inspection by corporate and how his assistant managers weren't helping enough. Another 30% was her complaining about her work and then there was a little bit about sports, which is his thing and not (at all) hers. In short it was incredibly ordinary and boring. I walked away feeling sad, but no sadder - there was nothing in there that reflected any obvious failings on my part. If she came home and told me she was leaving me for some super amazing, awesome guy I might feel somehow like a loser or like I wasn't good enough or I failed. But after hearing this...I'm more certain than ever that I am NOT the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Rule 1 of this stuff: If you are doing something, assume it's being done to you. Apply that to life in general and things are easier.
> 
> I to the same breakfast place most days. My wife knows - we come here together too. The other day I notice this woman, 40ish, stout but athletic, and I just get this vibe: that's a cop. I'm ex military and a lot of my friends are police, I know a lot of cops because of that, and she just gave off the cop vibe through her posture, appearance etc. No big deal. Cops have to eat too. Then I leave the store and walk across the street to a store to get printer ink. I get to checkout and I notice she's in there.
> .


It's commonly referred to as "affairing down".


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## TDSC60

The "put them through school - then they cheated" story is so common. 

My daughter knew, and was friends with, a couple in high school. They married the year after they graduated. 

She got a partial scholarship to a local university. He agreed to support the family while she pursued higher education. 7 years and two kids latter she cheated.

FL, remember, just because you are paranoid does not mean that you are not being followed. Watch your back. The attempt at sex with you and her reaction is very suspicious.

Sounds like you have a plan. Good luck.


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## Beach123

Sorry about all of it... better to know now than 20-30 years down the road... I wasted my adult life thinking my H was decent - he cheated the whole time.

Get a plan to have money moved into your name once you serve her or allow her to know you know.

Be prepared! Always three steps ahead of her.


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## Taxman

From any standpoint, laying in wait is the prudent thing. Consult with your lawyer, but for the day of confrontation, I would look to secure at least an account that will be untouchable by her. It is usual for a higher earner to attempt to bar their spouse from shared accounts, to be used as leverage. The more evidence, dependent on your state of residence, the better case you make. (At the very least, exposure will be embarrassing). As an accountant, the case that you make for spousal support is strenghened by the years you spent supporting her through meds, residency, and a fellowship, then limiting your own career by locating to small centres with her. All of this will be taken into account. She stands to lose a good portion of her income for a good while, not forever, but enough to sting. Good luck sir, you are doing a good job in dealing with this betrayal, and you will ultimately overcome this.

As is my wont to say in these cases, I wish you well and your soon to be ex, hell.


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## Beach123

Request everything you can in the divorce papers - a mediator will normally want you to settle somewhere in the middle - not that you have to agree with anything they recommend.

But you supported her through school and this is how she repays you? No.can.do... you make sure she has to pay you until you can get back to earning a decent income on your own.

She owes you! Think that way!

And when the time comes - expose to ALL her family! If you don't first - she will make up something that makes it look like she is innocent in all this.

And don't be surprised when she begs you not to divorce her - be ready for that too! Affairs thrive on secrecy and it won't be as fun after you know.

Be prepared for her to BEG... and understand where YOUR boundary is when that happens.

Do not allow her to make excuses and blame you! Because she will.


Make sure to get set up to have money separated... otherwise she will immediately swipe all of it!

Try and start closing down ANY and all credit cards so she can't run them up as soon as your separated - print out balances ahead of time so you have proof what the balances were before you separated. You don't want to be obligated for half of what she ends up spending in the future.

If you have investments and/or retirement try to get those as separate as you can now.

Always be thinking...protect yourself and your future!!!


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## Beach123

Get a pregnancy test and make her take it after she's served.

That's pretty crappy she would attempt sex to pin a pregnancy on you!


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## Marc878

Change your life insurance beneficiary


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## RWB

FloridaGuy123 said:


> HTML:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it hurt, but it was also _strange_. *It was NOT (a) My husband sucks or (b) I can't wait for you to **** me again or (c) I'm so excited about our weekend away in Napa...or anything I thought might be there. It was the most mundane **** you can imagine. I'm waiting to hear about what a loser I am, or how awesome and fantastic this guy is, or all the wonderful stuff they're going to do together and it never happens.* It's just inane_ blah blah blah. _ So it hurt, but it also evaporated any feelings that I was an inadequate husband.


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## Beach123

So this guy owns or manages a store? How do you think she met him?


I really thought it was gonna be someone new she worked with.


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## FloridaGuy123

The end approaches. We had counseling tonight and the counselor asked a question in which our answers wildly diverged and made her look worse. Basically it was about how you perceive your attentiveness to your partner. She answered _low-average_ and I answered _very high_. I think we were both being honest. 

She came home later and told me that she disagrees with my answer (it was a "your perception" so ONLY my answer is valid, whatever, how can she debate my perception??) Then she tells me she is not happy and can't get happy and hints at divorce. I said that people have survived divorce, I still care about her and if we end up there, we both have a lot of living still to do. 

Conversation moves on and I said "your mom got divorced and she isn't dead". Wife says "Yeah but there was a lot of anger and Mom is still bitter and I don't want to be that". So I said, "yeah but your dad was kind of a jerk, carrying on affairs etc. and while I may make lots of little mistakes I never make the really big ****ty structural ones" No change in expression or admission, but she agreed. 

We talk some more and she said "I want someone who takes care of me that way I take care of you." I said, "what do you mean?" She said she wants someone who makes her doctor's appointments and gets groceries and takes care of me emotionally and financially." So I said

- We always knew your income would be higher. I reminded her that no one in her family makes 1/3 of what she makes, and that at my highest ever I made almost half, when we met, and that was a good income for most people. (She knew all this - this is not a surprise.) It took you a long time to get here, and it will take me a while to catch up as an entrepreneur. But we chose this, together. No one put a gun to her head. 

- In fellowship I took very good care of you. I changed my whole life so you could just do fellowship and worry about little else. When you car got wrecked, I gave you mine and got around on foot and bike for months, in the WINTER, so you could hold off on buying one and we HAD the money. And I paid 24 months of rent plus security. 

- I got most of the groceries and I literally did 100% of the laundry. She didn't even know how to work the machine. I found a dentist, made her appointments and canceled and rescheduled her several times. And I handled every veterinary appointment! (Seriously WTF? She told me sometimes I waited until she got home before I asked what I should get for dinner. It's true! I asked what she wanted. I didn't clairvoyantly figure it out in her absence)

She then said it feels like something in her head/heart snapped and she can't fix it. I gingerly asked if this might be a psychiatrist issue. She said possibly, but didn't love that line of conversation. We moved on. 

I said I'm not perfect but I have been a decent husband and certainly since this got serious, she has been the center of my universe. She actually said "_that's not true. Back in the beginning you did some shady stuff_". (Note: this is referring to when we started dating). So I said "yes, in the beginning, I was casually involved with people and had to unwind them. That was all done in early 2013, and we got engaged a year after that and married a year after THAT. You've certainly been front and center since long before engagement". 

_Note: Is she really beating up on me because in Month 3 of our relationship I didn't tell everyone I was off the market forever? Yes, we met Christmas, 2012, and in March 2013 I had sex with a different woman. That was the last time. We got engaged Spring 2014. WTF?_

She said she wants a break. I didn't object - I said I'll find a place to go. I may just serve her with papers while on break. I suppose she needs time to clean up the evidence with the other guy? 

I honestly just sat there thunderstruck. I have recordings of her talking to another dude! This guy was calling her while we ate dinner! 

But I revealed nothing.


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## FloridaGuy123

Beach123 said:


> So this guy owns or manages a store? How do you think she met him?
> 
> 
> I really thought it was gonna be someone new she worked with.


She went to the store.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

FloridaGuy123 said:


> The end approaches. We had counseling tonight and the counselor asked a question in which our answers wildly diverged and made her look worse. Basically it was about how you perceive your attentiveness to your partner. She answered _low-average_ and I answered _very high_. I think we were both being honest.
> 
> She came home later and told me that she disagrees with my answer (it was a "your perception" so ONLY my answer is valid, whatever, how can she debate my perception??) Then she tells me she is not happy and can't get happy and hints at divorce. I said that people have survived divorce, I still care about her and if we end up there, we both have a lot of living still to do.
> 
> Conversation moves on and I said "your mom got divorced and she isn't dead". Wife says "Yeah but there was a lot of anger and Mom is still bitter and I don't want to be that". So I said, "yeah but your dad was kind of a jerk, carrying on affairs etc. and while I may make lots of little mistakes I never make the really big ****ty structural ones" No change in expression or admission, but she agreed.
> 
> We talk some more and she said "I want someone who takes care of me that way I take care of you." I said, "what do you mean?" She said she wants someone who makes her doctor's appointments and gets groceries and takes care of me emotionally and financially." So I said
> 
> - We always knew your income would be higher. I reminded her that no one in her family makes 1/3 of what she makes, and that at my highest ever I made almost half, when we met, and that was a good income for most people. (She knew all this - this is not a surprise.) It took you a long time to get here, and it will take me a while to catch up as an entrepreneur. But we chose this, together. No one put a gun to her head.
> 
> - In fellowship I took very good care of you. I changed my whole life so you could just do fellowship and worry about little else. When you car got wrecked, I gave you mine and got around on foot and bike for months, in the WINTER, so you could hold off on buying one and we HAD the money. And I paid 24 months of rent plus security.
> 
> - I got most of the groceries and I literally did 100% of the laundry. She didn't even know how to work the machine. I found a dentist, made her appointments and canceled and rescheduled her several times. And I handled every veterinary appointment! (Seriously WTF? She told me sometimes I waited until she got home before I asked what I should get for dinner. It's true! I asked what she wanted. I didn't clairvoyantly figure it out in her absence)
> 
> She then said it feels like something in her head/heart snapped and she can't fix it. I gingerly asked if this might be a psychiatrist issue. She said possibly, but didn't love that line of conversation.
> 
> I said I'm not perfect but I have been a decent husband and certainly since this got serious, she has been the center of my universe. She actually said "_that's not true. Back in the beginning you did some shady stuff_". (Note: this is referring to when we started dating). So I said "yes, in the beginning, I was casually involved with people and had to unwind them. That was all done in early 2013, and we got engaged a year after that and married a year after THAT. You've certainly been front and center since long before engagement".
> 
> _Note: Is she really beating up on me because in Month 3 of our relationship I didn't tell everyone I was off the market forever? Yes, we met Christmas, 2012, and in March 2013 I had sex with a different woman. That was the last time. We got engaged Spring 2014. WTF?_
> 
> She said she wants a break. I didn't object - I said I'll find a place to go. I may just serve her with papers while on break.
> 
> I honestly just sat there thunderstruck. I have recordings of her talking to another dude!


I read your whole thread. You are handling this as best as anyone has on these sad infidelity threads. Sh is fishing for nonsense in terms of marriage rewrites to justify her deceitfulness. Smile sweetly and tell her she wants a break she can leave. Tell her you are not going anywhere.


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## Beach123

She's rewriting history to soothe her guilty conscience.

You can't be weak now or you'll be stuck in limbo long term. You also don't want to be in any position to beg her to love you or to be with you.

Swift action. Serve her. Reveal to her family what she's been doing. Expose and expose more!

Be strong! You can start living again instead of being treated terribly - her lying ability is skilled... she's scum. Seriously? She's trying to blame you? I'd like to slap her silly!

Don't waste your time with this liar anymore! Tell her you made your decision - you're done. Make sure you move money first (tonight!) and close her credit cards. She has some nerve!

I'm a woman and she's making women look bad.


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## bandit.45

You’re playing around. Quit counseling. It’s useless. Just get her served and move on. Stop listening to her drivel. Her head is full of bats.


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## Beach123

How can you go to counseling knowing she's twisting her truth to suit her needs?

Stop playing along with her lies. She's wasting your time and energy.


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## PaulB

I'm new here. First off, I'm sorry that you are going through this. I had something kind of similar happen to me several years ago. Secondly, I'm really impressed with the bulk of the advice that has been given. As I was reading the first post, I kept thinking "Don't let her know you know!" and was relieved that's where the discussion went. I knew something was going on before my ex knew. I didn't have proof of actual sex yet, but I knew there was a relationship of some sort. I started collecting emails and text messages. I waited awhile before confronting her with what I had collected. I didn't want to, emotionally, but I knew that's how it had to be played out.



FloridaGuy123 said:


> HTML:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it hurt, but it was also _strange_. It was NOT (a) My husband sucks or (b) I can't wait for you to **** me again or (c) I'm so excited about our weekend away in Napa...or anything I thought might be there. It was the most mundane **** you can imagine. I'm waiting to hear about what a loser I am, or how awesome and fantastic this guy is, or all the wonderful stuff they're going to do together and it never happens. It's just inane_ blah blah blah. _ So it hurt, but it also evaporated any feelings that I was an inadequate husband.


I can relate to this totally. Hadn't really thought about that aspect of the mess since it all happened. Weeks and weeks of emails, and most of the talk was just meh conversation. There was no dirty talk or complaining about spouses. If it were conversation between people I didn't know, it would have been boring, for the most part.


Someone mentioned using privacy of the affair as a bartering chip. Looking back, part of me wishes I had just told people what happened. My situation was different than yours, though, because we had two kids. I wanted to protect my kids, so I kept her affair secret from family and friends. I thought that would be best for my kids. I didn't hang "telling the kids" over her, but I think she went through the divorce very civil and fair because she knew I wasn't telling the kids, and if she tried to make things messy for me, that would probably not remain the case. Anyway, if it's important for her to save face, keeping it private might be in your best interest, strategically speaking. And, if you change your mind, you can always tell later. You can never change your mind and un-tell though.

You'll go through a wave of shifting emotions through the whole thing. During the "research phase" of uncovering a spouse's affair, your emotions are kind of covered up by the strategy of the hunt.  Keep your game face on. It gets worse...and it gets better. I'm so glad I got divorced, and I was not someone who took divorce lightly. It was the best, healthiest thing for me. Play your cards right in this stage of the process, though.


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## sokillme

PaulB said:


> I'm new here. First off, I'm sorry that you are going through this. I had something kind of similar happen to me several years ago. Secondly, I'm really impressed with the bulk of the advice that has been given. As I was reading the first post, I kept thinking "Don't let her know you know!" and was relieved that's where the discussion went. I knew something was going on before my ex knew. I didn't have proof of actual sex yet, but I knew there was a relationship of some sort. I started collecting emails and text messages. I waited awhile before confronting her with what I had collected. I didn't want to, emotionally, but I knew that's how it had to be played out.
> 
> 
> 
> I can relate to this totally. Hadn't really thought about that aspect of the mess since it all happened. Weeks and weeks of emails, and most of the talk was just meh conversation. There was no dirty talk or complaining about spouses. If it were conversation between people I didn't know, it would have been boring, for the most part.
> 
> 
> Someone mentioned using privacy of the affair as a bartering chip. Looking back, part of me wishes I had just told people what happened. My situation was different than yours, though, because we had two kids. I wanted to protect my kids, so I kept her affair secret from family and friends. I thought that would be best for my kids. I didn't hang "telling the kids" over her, but I think she went through the divorce very civil and fair because she knew I wasn't telling the kids, and if she tried to make things messy for me, that would probably not remain the case. Anyway, if it's important for her to save face, keeping it private might be in your best interest, strategically speaking. And, if you change your mind, you can always tell later. You can never change your mind and un-tell though.
> 
> You'll go through a wave of shifting emotions through the whole thing. During the "research phase" of uncovering a spouse's affair, your emotions are kind of covered up by the strategy of the hunt. Keep your game face on. It gets worse...and it gets better. I'm so glad I got divorced, and I was not someone who took divorce lightly. It was the best, healthiest thing for me. Play your cards right in this stage of the process, though.


One day when they are old enough and ask, tell your kids. It's the right thing to do.


----------



## sokillme

Don't be so sure your wife is having an exit affair. This may be one of those affairs where the WS just wants to have a fun outside of marriage. She may be shocked when you tell her you know and you want a divorce because she is arrogant enough to think she will never be caught. Also if you are as good looking as you say she may have never planned on losing you, just having her fun and never telling you.

Which means when you finally tell her she may do a 180 and promise the world to you. Don't fall for it, she is just like her father and not worth the potential of more pain in the future. One of thing if she is pregnant and you leave you better tell everyone including her mother, better they know that then they think you are abandoning your pregnant wife. Don't let that lie about you be the story. Though maybe she had an abortion, maybe that was why she was hysterical because she knew that was what she now had to do to keep he secret. Cheaters are the worst.

You are doing well, that is good as when you look back on this besides the pain you will at least be able to be proud of how you responded. Keep it up, it will get better, you being decisive will help it get better quicker.


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## manfromlamancha

She is desperately trying to justify her affair, that is clear. Do not fall for it and do not let her off the hook. It seems that it is important to her that she come out of this looking like the good guy!

Hang on to your evidence and get more if you can.

Take care and protect yourself!


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## OutofRetirement

What your wife is doing - the bringing up minor or inconsequential stuff from 5-6 years ago - "you didn't stop dating the first day you met me" turning into "you've been pretty shady in this marriage"; the "you upended your whole life to focus solely on mine" turning into "you don't take care of me" - is normal for affairs like your wife's. It's called "rewriting history." By the way, she really and truly believes it. As the affair has heated up, she has gradually and surely coming up with excuses for herself about as to why she would do such a thing - justifying her actions.

It goes like this: "I'm not a 'bad' person - I'm a 'good' person. I HATE cheating and I HATE cheaters. The way my Dad cheated my Mom - I am NOT that person. I HATE what my Dad did. I am NOT like my Dad. But here I am, cheating. But it's not that bad. My husband probably is doing stuff, too. If he isn't having sex for 2-3 months with me, he must be doing it with someone else. And I know he actually WAS shady. He didn't tell the whole truth about his other girlfriends when we first met. And even though he upended his life for me, he probably liked it. Now he's coasting. He doesn't even have dinner ready for me when I come home." Blah blah blah blah blah.

This will be the end result after you are divorced, to any close friends, now or future, who delve into her with why her marriage crumbled: (1) My husband always was a bit shady, (2) My husband stopped loving me, (3) My husband started using me, (4) I suspected he was cheating, (5) I only started up having a friendship with another man AFTER my husband checked out, (6) It only turned romantic AFTER my marriage was already crumbling beyond repair, when it was already written on the wall."

I like your attitude. It doesn't sound like your wife is the type who apologizes. You brought up some pretty direct points to show her assertions were not true, and she didn't apologize at all. Still, I think you've got some chaos coming from her when you confront her, especially if the legal interactions bring out her adultery in the divorce process. Your wife may be intelligent and CAN be logical, but when it comes to the cheating, she will come right back to her childhood with how she felt with her Dad, and there will be some emotional fireworks. You'll be dealing with a child at that point.


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## Robert22205

Why did you agree to leave? Is there a strategic value? Seems like you could be accused of abandoning her or not being committed.
Is your lawyer ok with you leaving?


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## farsidejunky

Your wife is a cool customer.

However (clearly) so are you. She has no inkling that you know what you know.

Do not be surprised by this, but she is going to be stunned when she is served.

Also, it's time to stop the discussions. You are not going to gain anything by it except further glimpses into the madness of a wayward mind. In fact, stop initiating the discussion at all.

If she does, give her something like this:

"Discussions about fixing marriages are for two people who are committed to each other. Since that is clearly not the case, there's no point in having any discussion."

Then walk away.

Que the blameshifting, harping, etc. 

"I'm not okay with blameshifting."

It really is time for the 180.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## AKA Broken Arrow

FloridaGuy123 said:


> We talk some more and she said "I want someone who takes care of me that way I take care of you." I said, "what do you mean?" She said she wants someone who makes her doctor's appointments and gets groceries and takes care of me emotionally and financially."


Yeah, she'll be set for life with mr store manager. Jackpot. Unbelievable. Stay strong.


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## Marc878

You offered to move out? Weak move. You should have told her to go. She wants the separation. 

Not sure but it sounds like you maybe folding a bit.

Talk get you nothing. You just witnessed that.

Stay awake!!!!!


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## Robert22205

Sounds like you had a deep and emotional discussion with your wife. Unfortunately most people don't really listen under those circumstances.

Maybe write her a follow up card (theme of your choosing) with a copy of the picture of you two on the front steps and stating a few very brief points: 
your conversation was disturbing on a number of levels ... you sound depressed like you've lost yourself (and possibly us) and want to assure her that you never committed adultery or deceived her, have always taken care of her (in all ways ... especially during her residency where you were the primary caregiver and support), moved to this town to accommodate her dream, and finally now wonder if her father had a similar conversation with her mother (or internal dialogue) where he rewrote history in order to justify his behavior? 

Also, did your counselor instruct each of you to stop contact with opposite sex friends? It's impossible to focus on a relationship when there's someone else wedged between you.


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## farsidejunky

I would like to add that the reason she will be stunned deals with the compartmentalization that is taking place.

The likely reason she is compartmentalizing to this degree is because subconsciously she does not believe the drivel she is spouting about your marriage, so she puts up barriers.

Serving her will shatter that barrier.

Historically speaking, there is good chance she will have that "WTF have I done?" moment. Don't be surprised if she pursues reconciliation with you...rather desperately. 

That said, there are some factors that I think make the prospects of reconciliation (beyond her FOO issues) rather dim even if she has that WTF moment...namely, your earning power.

In fairness, if I were in your position, I would be done with a capital D. However, my view of this is from the cheap seats. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Taxman

I tend to think your STBXW has so compartmentalized, that she does not really see consequences. She has already discounted FloridaGuy, but really is not dealing with the cognitive dissonance. She has a loser that manages a store, and will willingly throw everything away for a loser. She has a good guy at home who subsidized her complete existence, and now will pay dearly to walk away from. 

FloridaGuy, I have had a lot of good men sit across my desk from me and ask what in the name of all that is holy did they do to cause the one person they trusted implicitly, the one who they supported and encouraged, to turn on them, and treat them with contempt. To them, I have always said, it sounds petty, but get them back. In your case, once all is said and done, I would go up to Mr. Store Manager, and let him know that head office will find out he was banging a customer, and caused a divorce. They would not want that getting in the newspapers, and he will be terminated. No ifs ands or buts about it. Her? Your lawyer should do the dirty work, but take as much money as you can. Be greedy. Let her understand wrath.


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## Graywolf2

OutofRetirement said:


> What your wife is doing - the bringing up minor or inconsequential stuff from 5-6 years ago - "you didn't stop dating the first day you met me" turning into "you've been pretty shady in this marriage"; the "you upended your whole life to focus solely on mine" turning into "you don't take care of me" - is normal for affairs like your wife's. It's called "rewriting history." By the way, she really and truly believes it. As the affair has heated up, she has gradually and surely coming up with excuses for herself about as to why she would do such a thing - justifying her actions.
> 
> It goes like this: "I'm not a 'bad' person - I'm a 'good' person. I HATE cheating and I HATE cheaters. The way my Dad cheated my Mom - I am NOT that person. I HATE what my Dad did. I am NOT like my Dad. But here I am, cheating. But it's not that bad. My husband probably is doing stuff, too. If he isn't having sex for 2-3 months with me, he must be doing it with someone else. And I know he actually WAS shady. He didn't tell the whole truth about his other girlfriends when we first met. And even though he upended his life for me, he probably liked it. Now he's coasting. He doesn't even have dinner ready for me when I come home." Blah blah blah blah blah.
> 
> This will be the end result after you are divorced, to any close friends, now or future, who delve into her with why her marriage crumbled: (1) My husband always was a bit shady, (2) My husband stopped loving me, (3) My husband started using me, (4) I suspected he was cheating, (5) I only started up having a friendship with another man AFTER my husband checked out, (6) It only turned romantic AFTER my marriage was already crumbling beyond repair, when it was already written on the wall."


I was about to write something like Outofretirement but they did it better than I could.

For practical reasons, that I mentioned in a previous post, the day to day services you provide are very valuable to a busy surgeon. 

IMO her primary motivation to divorce you would be to clean things up. She will think that if you end up divorced why does it really matter when her affair started. She is still a good person.

I would keep gathering evidence. She will do everything that a WS does when confronted. Her motivation will not be to avoid divorce but to remain a good person. She will trickle truth you. “We only kissed, etc.”

I’m all about setting the record straight. A good way to do that is to write her a letter with the following. Don’t do it in a negative or complaining way. Do it in a positive way in that you were glad to do all those things because you were a team and cared for her so much.


Robert22205 said:


> Maybe write her a follow up card (theme of your choosing) with a copy of the picture of you two on the front steps and stating a few very brief points:
> your conversation was disturbing on a number of levels ... you sound depressed like you've lost yourself (and possibly us) and want to assure her that you never committed adultery or deceived her, have always taken care of her (in all ways ... especially during her residency where you were the primary caregiver and support), moved to this town to accommodate her dream.


Do it now before she finds out that you know about her affair.


----------



## wmn1

sokillme said:


> first talk to an attorney to know your rights. Then don't confront her just ghost her and let your lawyer take her for all she is worth. Push hard for alimony or at least have her pay you back for your businesses but again let her lawyer do that. What i am saying is get all your stuff ready and then one day just move out and ghost, you can leave a short letter like, i know you are having an affair with so and so, i expect to be compensated justly for all the expense i put into your schooling, then leave your proof. Leave a half empty apartment and your ring on the table with a copy of divorce papers and the number of your attorney. Block all ways of contact. Tell your family and hers what happened and move on with your life. Never talk to her again ever. You will heal faster and she will never get closure which is a pain she deserves. This really the only way to get some sort of justice as far as i see it.
> 
> here is a list i put together of the ones who did it right.
> 
> pay attention to the last link on the first post. That's the way to do it.
> 
> The ones who are not nice do the best, it gives them immediate control over their life back. Seems you have no kids so there really isn't any reason to be. Unfortunately you picked bad this time. That's life, it happens to most people but see her for what she is which is not worth another minute of your time.




this !!!!


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## dreamer2017

Dear Florida,

I’ve following your thread, and I’m very sorry you are going through this “stuff.” I would like to offer you my opinion on the process you should take. First and most important, “I WOULDN’T LEAVE MY HOME”!!! Your wife is the one that is having an affair and has chosen to take a break from the marriage. I would serve her immediately because you have the evidence you need and you are totally sure of the affair and the deep relationship with the OM.

It is my opinion to have her served at her place of employment ASAP. After she is served, I would proceed with the following steps.

1.)	Approach the OM and inform him of your knowledge of the affair.
2.)	I would visit my MIL to inform her of her daughters (like her father) activities with the OM.
3.)	I would purposely divulge the information to all friends and relatives.

When you file, you must be willing to go the distance. You have invested a great deal in the marriage and her career and don’t be afraid to get what you deserve. You are entitled to her income, 401 and future earnings. YOU ARE ENTITLED!!!!!

You can always stop the divorce process if conditions changes. Move forward.

Best Dreamer.


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## Chaparral

PaulB said:


> I'm new here. First off, I'm sorry that you are going through this. I had something kind of similar happen to me several years ago. Secondly, I'm really impressed with the bulk of the advice that has been given. As I was reading the first post, I kept thinking "Don't let her know you know!" and was relieved that's where the discussion went. I knew something was going on before my ex knew. I didn't have proof of actual sex yet, but I knew there was a relationship of some sort. I started collecting emails and text messages. I waited awhile before confronting her with what I had collected. I didn't want to, emotionally, but I knew that's how it had to be played out.
> 
> 
> 
> I can relate to this totally. Hadn't really thought about that aspect of the mess since it all happened. Weeks and weeks of emails, and most of the talk was just meh conversation. There was no dirty talk or complaining about spouses. If it were conversation between people I didn't know, it would have been boring, for the most part.
> 
> 
> Someone mentioned using privacy of the affair as a bartering chip. Looking back, part of me wishes I had just told people what happened. My situation was different than yours, though, because we had two kids. I wanted to protect my kids, so I kept her affair secret from family and friends. I thought that would be best for my kids. I didn't hang "telling the kids" over her, but I think she went through the divorce very civil and fair because she knew I wasn't telling the kids, and if she tried to make things messy for me, that would probably not remain the case. Anyway, if it's important for her to save face, keeping it private might be in your best interest, strategically speaking. And, if you change your mind, you can always tell later. You can never change your mind and un-tell though.
> 
> You'll go through a wave of shifting emotions through the whole thing. During the "research phase" of uncovering a spouse's affair, your emotions are kind of covered up by the strategy of the hunt. Keep your game face on. It gets worse...and it gets better. I'm so glad I got divorced, and I was not someone who took divorce lightly. It was the best, healthiest thing for me. Play your cards right in this stage of the process, though.


We hear over and over here from kids that weren’t told what caused the divorce and how angry they with the betrayed parent for not telling them. Many blame themselves. Marriage builders has a guide to telling kids what is happening. Not telling is a double betrayal.


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## Chaparral

sokillme said:


> Don't be so sure your wife is having an exit affair. This may be one of those affairs where the WS just wants to have a fun outside of marriage. She may be shocked when you tell her you know and you want a divorce because she is arrogant enough to think she will never be caught. Also if you are as good looking as you say she may have never planned on losing you, just having her fun and never telling you.
> 
> Which means when you finally tell her she may do a 180 and promise the world to you. Don't fall for it, she is just like her father and not worth the potential of more pain in the future. One of thing if she is pregnant and you leave you better tell everyone including her mother, better they know that then they think you are abandoning your pregnant wife. Don't let that lie about you be the story. Though maybe she had an abortion, maybe that was why she was hysterical because she knew that was what she now had to do to keep he secret. Cheaters are the worst.
> 
> You are doing well, that is good as when you look back on this besides the pain you will at least be able to be proud of how you responded. Keep it up, it will get better, you being decisive will help it get better quicker.


This could be many things, even a last ditch attempt to reignite their marriage. Two or three months with out sex. Really? Dogs in the bed? Can’t have sex because dogs are in the bed? This marriage has been underwater for a long time. A sexless marriage isn’t a marriage. It’s a roommate situation, friends without benefits. Fla hasn’t answered questions about this.


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## Tron

manfromlamancha said:


> She is desperately trying to justify her affair, that is clear. Do not fall for it and do not let her off the hook. It seems that it is important to her that she come out of this looking like the good guy!
> 
> Hang on to your evidence and get more if you can.
> 
> Take care and protect yourself!





sokillme said:


> Don't be so sure your wife is having an exit affair. This may be one of those affairs where the WS just wants to have a fun outside of marriage. She may be shocked when you tell her you know and you want a divorce because she is arrogant enough to think she will never be caught. Also if you are as good looking as you say she may have never planned on losing you, just having her fun and never telling you.


I agree.

I'd file and have her served at work. Then immediately blast her behavior on FB and email all her friends and family.

Shock and awe. 

Knock her off her high horse. 

I can't believe she had the nerve to claim she needs someone to take care of her and that you don't...WTF. :crazy:	:crazy:	:crazy:	:crazy:	:crazy:	:crazy:


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## scaredlion

I am curious about something, in your marriage, that would be a breakdown in my marriage. In a previous post you said that she proposed a "night in" where you and her would have sex after about 2 to 3 months. Why so long? The short time you have been married you should still be in the honeymoon phase. I have been married 10 times longer than you. I had 2 very highly stressful, violent, and dangerous jobs in my work career. The only time my wife and I went more than a week without having sex was when I was deployed somewhere around the world. Even in the very bad times, in our marriage, we still managed to be intimate. You two see each other everyday. So why no intimacy? Dogs barking at the door and wanting to get in bed, work brought home, and other little distractions are excuses and not reasons not to be intimate. Put the dogs outside and leave the homework in the briefcase. I have a yellow lab that I think the world of, but unless he was sick or dying there is no way he would keep my wife and I apart. By your description, you are a thoughtful and devoted husband. Also by your description, there must have been something very disconnected in your marriage before the affair. Just my observation. I do wish you well.


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## PaulB

sokillme said:


> One day when they are old enough and ask, tell your kids. It's the right thing to do.



Thanks. They are both out of the house now. If they ever ask, I will tell. They were in grade school when I divorced their mom. I remember my younger said something to me at that time indicating it was my fault his mom didn't live with us anymore. I just never wanted them to know as they grew up not because I was embarrassed, but because I couldn't image what it does to boys knowing that mom was sleeping with another guy.


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## PaulB

Chaparral said:


> We hear over and over here from kids that weren’t told what caused the divorce and how angry they with the betrayed parent for not telling them. Many blame themselves. Marriage builders has a guide to telling kids what is happening. Not telling is a double betrayal.


It's not like one day they were told mommy is moving out. The relationship was not a healthy one. They were told by both of us something along the lines that we both loved them the same but that we didn't get along with each other and were not a good match for each other...I don't remember any of the specifics. They had heard us argue. They had seen her have melt downs and smash something. 

Sorry, but telling little kids that mommy was ****ing one of daddy's friends does more damage than "betraying" them by withholding facts. I've had friends when I was younger who were told about a parent's affair and I have seen the punch it laid to the way they saw themselves and the gender of the offending parent. I've known divorced parents who lay everything out there for the kids to hear how dad betrayed mom and did this and this and that. That's not healthy for kids. That damages their development. They can hear that stuff when they grow up and have a strong emotional and psychological foundation. All the crazy **** my ex put me through on different levels, I never complained about her in front of my kids and I certainly never told them bad things about her. She is my crazy cheating ex-wife, but she was their mother. You don't pollute kids' minds with a parent's dirty laundry. I've watched many divorced moms rip apart their exes to their kids. If given the chance to go back and re-do things 100 times, I will always err on the side of not saying enough v/s saying too much to my kids.

(EDIT: In re-reading this after posting, it comes across as angry. I didn't mean that. I understand where you are coming from, but I've seen harm done when kids are told too much. The Cliffs Notes version is often much healthier for their young minds, IMHO.)


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## Kamstel

Do you have a timeline of when you are going to file and have her served?


Good luck and stay strong


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## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> Why did you agree to leave? Is there a strategic value? Seems like you could be accused of abandoning her or not being committed.
> Is your lawyer ok with you leaving?


It was a negotiating tactic. I give people rope. I did not leave. We slept apart. At 3am she came to the other bed and said she couldn't sleep and then wanted to be near me. She came to bed, I held her and we fell asleep. I was tired, lol. 

This morning, she was friendly to me as we left the house. Then, mid-day she kind of snapped and I have no idea why.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Kamstel said:


> Do you have a timeline of when you are going to file and have her served?
> 
> 
> Good luck and stay strong


Discussing with lawyer now.

Not going to FB blast it because there may be negotiating leverage to keep it quiet.


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## Robert22205

She probably snapped after talking to the other guy(s) - that's why No Contact with other guys.


----------



## colingrant

You're in the drivers seat big time. Patience and confidence is so essential in these situations. You basically determined the course of how this will play out simply by withholding your knowledge of her activities. Everything evolved from that decision.


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## Chaparral

PaulB said:


> It's not like one day they were told mommy is moving out. The relationship was not a healthy one. They were told by both of us something along the lines that we both loved them the same but that we didn't get along with each other and were not a good match for each other...I don't remember any of the specifics. They had heard us argue. They had seen her have melt downs and smash something.
> 
> Sorry, but telling little kids that mommy was ****ing one of daddy's friends does more damage than "betraying" them by withholding facts. I've had friends when I was younger who were told about a parent's affair and I have seen the punch it laid to the way they saw themselves and the gender of the offending parent. I've known divorced parents who lay everything out there for the kids to hear how dad betrayed mom and did this and this and that. That's not healthy for kids. That damages their development. They can hear that stuff when they grow up and have a strong emotional and psychological foundation. All the crazy **** my ex put me through on different levels, I never complained about her in front of my kids and I certainly never told them bad things about her. She is my crazy cheating ex-wife, but she was their mother. You don't pollute kids' minds with a parent's dirty laundry. I've watched many divorced moms rip apart their exes to their kids. If given the chance to go back and re-do things 100 times, I will always err on the side of not saying enough v/s saying too much to my kids.
> 
> (EDIT: In re-reading this after posting, it comes across as angry. I didn't mean that. I understand where you are coming from, but I've seen harm done when kids are told too much. The Cliffs Notes version is often much healthier for their young minds, IMHO.)


It’s fine to have your own opinion in these situations, BUT, you should look at the psychological evidence that disputes everything you have said. You lied to your kids. You are part of the cheaters conspiracy. Your wife not only cheated on you, she cheated on her if’s and they are like 80% or betrayed spouses. They don’t know they have been cheated on. We have counselors and psychologists that come here. Dr. Harley and the late Phylis Shafley are tops in their fields and they never suggest lying to kids. No matter how “crazy” your wife was, cheating is the second worse thing that can happen to a person and that isn’t something to keep secret. No matter how well ntentioned. Lies beget liars.


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## TRy

PaulB said:


> Sorry, but telling little kids that mommy was ****ing one of daddy's friends does more damage than "betraying" them by withholding facts. I've had friends when I was younger who were told about a parent's affair and I have seen the punch it laid to the way they saw themselves and the gender of the offending parent. I've known divorced parents who lay everything out there for the kids to hear how dad betrayed mom and did this and this and that. That's not healthy for kids.


 Telling little kids about the affair does not require telling them that "mommy was ****ing one of daddy's friends". I had a friend that simply told his young children that "mommy and daddy are getting a divorce because mommy has a new boyfriend". As they got older they understood more of what that meant without ever feeling that they were lied to by their parents. Children need to trust that their parents will not lie to them. That fact will be a core foundation in their life.


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## Tron

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Discussing with lawyer now.
> 
> Not going to FB blast it because there may be negotiating leverage to keep it quiet.


I think it may possible to leverage you keeping quiet for a sweeter payout, but if you want her out of the fog and begging for you to reconsider there is no better way to get a WW to realize how badly they F'd up than to expose their atrocious behavior to everyone who will listen.


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## FloridaGuy123

Beach123 said:


> Get a pregnancy test and make her take it after she's served.
> 
> That's pretty crappy she would attempt sex to pin a pregnancy on you!


To be fair (not to her, but to the truth) this was speculation. But it's the only story I can think of that makes all the pieces fit.


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## Marc878

I'm not a fan of full out FB exposure. No need to make it a spectacle.

Inform his wife ASAP. Before they get a chance to try and cover themselves. Family is ok too.


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## 3putt

Marc878 said:


> I'm not a fan of full out FB exposure. No need to make it a spectacle.
> 
> Inform his wife ASAP. Before they get a chance to try and cover themselves. Family is ok too.


I am when it comes to the OM or OW. Massive fan.


----------



## bandit.45

FloridaGuy123 said:


> This morning, she was friendly to me as we left the house. Then, mid-day she kind of snapped and I have no idea why.


She was angry at herself for cheating on her OM.


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## 3putt

bandit.45 said:


> She was angry at herself for cheating on her OM.


That would be it.


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## skerzoid

FloridaGuy123

You seem very cool headed about this. The saying is "To save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it". I think you are willing to lose it, but she needs to see this.

1. Have her served with her lover at where ever it is they meet. A PI could help in this. Nothing like a cold slap in the face to wake her up. 

2. Inform friends & family. Do not let her put a different face on the this. She has had a sleazy affair. Make her own it. 

3. Inform his wife.

4. STD Test, Pregnancy Test, Polygraph. All must be passed before any forgiveness if she wants back in.

5. Stay strong.


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## eric1

You have enough information now and she needs to be served ASAP.

If you even have one iota that reconciliation would be on the table if the heavens aligned then you need to expose to the loser’s wife if he has one and, if it’s feasible, his workplace. 

Obviously do not expose to hers, though it sounds like your lawyer is smart enough that he has legal methods of exposing her behavior to her employee to at least hold over her head.

She’s compartmentalizing right now. You need to crash that party. You are dealing with this very well but do not allow dealing with this to be your coping mechanism.


----------



## Decorum

FloridaGuy123 said:


> ... Then she tells me she is not happy and can't get happy and hints at divorce...
> 
> She said she wants a break.


She wants to be able to say that you were on a break, and headed to divorce when she met and went out with merchandise man. (Perhaps even date the pregnancy from then if she is preggors)

Sounds like this is an emotional affair (of course with sex). She was needy, (not your fault), he showed interest/attention, she follow the good feelings past the point of no return.

Could be an exit affair, but I rather think when you expose, she will be crushed when the bridge to nowhere she has built collapses under it own weight upon her.

Be strong in the face of her pleading snot bubbles, she is not right.

That is on her, not you.

Move past the few years you were together, and live well in the rest. 

Don't mortgage your future to buy a chitload of unhappiness!

Learn from the guys here who say, "if I could do it all over again, I would not!"


----------



## BluesPower

Decorum said:


> She wants to be able to say that you were on a break, and headed to divorce when she met and went out with merchandise man. (Perhaps even date the pregnancy from then if she is preggors)
> 
> Sounds like this is an emotional affair (of course with sex). She was needy, (not your fault), he showed interest/attention, she follow the good feelings past the point of no return.
> 
> Could be an exit affair, but I rather think when you expose, she will be crushed when the bridge to nowhere she has built collapses under it own weight upon her.
> 
> Be strong in the face of her pleading snot bubbles, she is not right.
> 
> That is on her, not you.
> 
> Move past the few years you were together, and live well in the rest.
> 
> Don't mortgage your future to buy a chitload of unhappiness!
> 
> Learn from the guys here who say, "if I could do it all over again, I would not!"


I think this is really insightful. The take a break thing is so common I should have caught it as we all should have. 

She will def use that line of reasoning when she is exposed.

But I still maintain that her attempt and hysteria about sex not working out that night is absolutely he trying to pin her pregnancy on her husband...


----------



## Chaparral

BluesPower said:


> I think this is really insightful. The take a break thing is so common I should have caught it as we all should have.
> 
> She will def use that line of reasoning when she is exposed.
> 
> But I still maintain that her attempt and hysteria about sex not working out that night is absolutely he trying to pin her pregnancy on her husband...


Was the sexless marriage the cause of her pulling away or did an affair cause the sexless marriage? OP still hasn’t addressed this issue.


----------



## Chaparral

Op also hasn't mentioned how long and why they have been in counseling.

When things don’t make sense you don’t have the truth.


----------



## BluesPower

Chaparral said:


> Was the sexless marriage the cause of her pulling away or did an affair cause the sexless marriage? OP still hasn’t addressed this issue.





Chaparral said:


> Op also hasn't mentioned how long and why they have been in counseling.
> 
> When things don’t make sense you don’t have the truth.


It seems that it was the affair that caused the sexless marriage but who really knows. 

I think he has a lot of information, but do we ever really have all the information?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Chaparral said:


> Op also hasn't mentioned how long and why they have been in counseling.
> 
> When things don’t make sense you don’t have the truth.


Concur, there are some gaps that need to be filled in.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

BluesPower said:


> It seems that it was the affair that caused the sexless marriage but who really knows.
> 
> I think he has a lot of information, but do we ever really have all the information?


We had an average amount of sex given her work demands. it wasn't all the time passion, but it wasn't a sexless marriage either. 

It became one about the time of the affair.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Decorum said:


> She wants to be able to say that you were on a break, and headed to divorce when she met and went out with merchandise man. (Perhaps even date the pregnancy from then if she is preggors)
> 
> Sounds like this is an emotional affair (of course with sex). She was needy, (not your fault), he showed interest/attention, she follow the good feelings past the point of no return.
> 
> Could be an exit affair, but I rather think when you expose, she will be crushed when the bridge to nowhere she has built collapses under it own weight upon her.
> 
> Be strong in the face of her pleading snot bubbles, she is not right.
> 
> That is on her, not you.
> 
> Move past the few years you were together, and live well in the rest.
> 
> Don't mortgage your future to buy a chitload of unhappiness!
> 
> Learn from the guys here who say, "if I could do it all over again, I would not!"


I've reached out to my lawyer and told him I am ready to serve her, just want to check and make sure that everything is set up correctly so I don't act against my own interests. 

It's time. I WOULD do it all over again, but I won't do it anymore. 

Coincidentally, or not, she told me she wanted to take a break and needs 3-4 weeks. If I can coordinate with my lawyer, I will agree to the break and serve her immediately at the "start" of the break. I found the request for a specific time frame to be awkward.


----------



## BluesPower

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Coincidentally, or not, she told me she wanted to take a break and needs 3-4 weeks. If I can coordinate with my lawyer, I will agree to the break and serve her immediately at the "start" of the break. I found the request for a specific time frame to be awkward.


Yes it is strange and awkward. Who knows why she had that time frame though, it is any ones guess...


----------



## AKA Broken Arrow

My first love told me she wanted a break. I told her that's not how it works, I need all or nothing. So I got nothing. I'm so glad I did though, I would have never met my wife and true love. 

I do agree with others though, if she insists on this break, let her be the one to leave the house. You're almost there.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Chaparral said:


> Op also hasn't mentioned how long and why they have been in counseling.
> 
> When things don’t make sense you don’t have the truth.


Things went really bad around the time the affair started. Before that, it was a pretty normal thing. Sex life was OK. it wasn't fantastic but it wasn't awful. Non-sexual intimacy - touches, kisses, etc was completely normal. So were good conversations, walks, dinners together and so on. It all dried up. 

I bought her a very nice present for her birthday in April (with the few bucks I had from my business, about $4k in jewelry). Her first reaction was to condemn the expense and getting mad about it. That was when I went from concerned to red flags and started looking a little close and seeing fishy-ness. (I don't want to sound like an asshat, but $4k is generally irrelevant to us.) I know now she was mad because in her head I was the a**hole who "made her cheat" and my behavior - giving a nice gift and not paying for it from our joint account - was out of keeping with being an ******* and it pissed her off. 

We started going to counseling a few weeks ago - late May I guess. When things were bad in April, my wife blamed me. So I empathized and apologized for hurting her and promised to take her feelings into account. Things were better for 48 hours and then kept getting worse. She suggested counseling. I agreed and we went. By then I had evidence of an affair, then I had strong evidence, then I had proof.

She still doesn't know that I know.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hold your cards close. Sorry you had to go through this and it is not closed as yet. Stay the course!


----------



## Chaparral

Her boyfriend is a store manager. He didn’t get there because of his looks. He got there because he can manipulate people. He’s a boss. On the other hand, you have in effect, given up your leadership mantle by letting her career take number one in your lives.

You have the same problem we see here with stay at home dads. Regardless of political correctness, women are biological creatures and you can’t buck millions of years of DNA success.

If someone can link or post the piece on the player that targets married women, you should read it. The conversation you heard is a perfect example of how a player grooms a married woman. Those things she told you were big problems were his words coming out of her mouth. She’s been played by a master manipulator. You even said he knows more about her friends than you do. 

Even when she tried to get you to have sex with her you couldn’t even control your own dogs. When I tell my dogs to move over or lie down, they do it now. You need to read THE MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. Giving everything you think a woman needs to her never works. She needs to be constantly concerned for your needs as much as you are here. You have made yourself into the house boy while her boyfriend is a boss man. This isn’t his first conquest and won’t be his last. 

Regardless of how things should go, I would be visiting him at his work. His ears would be ringing in front of his low paid underlings. Then I would pack your wife’s clothes in garbage bags and tell him to go to his house or anywhere but where you live. If you can’t get anything else out of this take your balls back. F*** the rest if you have to. A good attorney can help you clean their clock. .


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Chaparral said:


> Her boyfriend is a store manager. He didn’t get there because of his looks. He got there because he can manipulate people. He’s a boss. On the other hand, you have in effect, given up your leadership mantle by letting her career take number one in your lives.


He is the manager of a retail operation. This is not a boss in any meaningful sense. Does the guy managing DSW seem like a boss to you? (it's not DSW but it's that tier).

He got there because he's got the IQ of a watermelon and that's what is needed to do that job. I was a Navy officer with a very high stress job, have a degree in science and owned a successful business. During her fellowship, I didn't sit around and fold her clothes. In fact, I achieved something so demanding and so high profile that revealing it would immediately out me. I literally can't say anything else anonymously; it suffices to say that when we meet people, they _still_ (it's been 2 years) ask about it. Complete strangers in foreign countries have walked up to me and started conversations about it.

I understand the scenario you're laying out, I've heard it before and seen it with other guys, etc. It may apply to some extent here, but think the clearer explanation is that she has always been a person of ****ty character, and it was masked by the relentless pursuit of her professional goals. With their achievement, it floats to the surface. 



> You have the same problem we see here with stay at home dads. Regardless of political correctness, women are biological creatures and you can’t buck millions of years of DNA success.


You sort of can. Faithfulness in marriage is the response to millions of years of DNA, otherwise I would just be out reproducing with anyone and everyone. Other consequences of evolution include 1400cc brains and the ability to make choices at a higher level than a dog. I don't take advantage of sexual opportunities that present themselves, because I can make a choice. I choose to be a husband, not to bang every girl that smiles at me in the gym. Do I want to, on some primitive level? yeah, of course. Then, I choose not to. 



> If someone can link or post the piece on the player that targets married women, you should read it. The conversation you heard is a perfect example of how a player grooms a married woman. Those things she told you were big problems were his words coming out of her mouth. She’s been played by a master manipulator. You even said he knows more about her friends than you do.


This could all be true, but a person so easily played reveals themselves as an unsuitable partner for me. In a way I should say thanks.



> Even when she tried to get you to have sex with her you couldn’t even control your own dogs. When I tell my dogs to move over or lie down, they do it now. You need to read THE MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. Giving everything you think a woman needs to her never works. She needs to be constantly concerned for your needs as much as you are here. You have made yourself into the house boy while her boyfriend is a boss man. This isn’t his first conquest and won’t be his last.


I lol'ed at the dogs comment. But at the same time, those dogs may have rescued me from a real problem.  



> Regardless of how things should go, I would be visiting him at his work. His ears would be ringing in front of his low paid underlings. Then I would pack your wife’s clothes in garbage bags and tell him to go to his house or anywhere but where you live. If you can’t get anything else out of this take your balls back. F*** the rest if you have to. A good attorney can help you clean their clock. .


All things in time.


----------



## bandit.45

I just don't understand why you have to be the one to leave the house. When you leave she will bring OM in and screw him on your marital bed. Can you handle that? Even if you do file and are legally separated, why do you need to leave? Make her leave. She's the one who wants the break. 

I am more and more starting to agree that this is an exit affair for her.


----------



## Robert22205

Good idea to serve the divorce papers just ahead of the trip. 3-4 weeks is probably a trip she has planned (her mother or resident buddy or boyfriend). 
If it's her mother or girlfriend, she may drop the news that the marriage is on the rocks and it's all your fault. 

Based on some of the things you said, it sounds like every time she talks to the other guy (e.g., around Noon) - he drives the wedge further between you. At this time avoid the other guy and stick to your plan (or as they say in finance: trade the plan). 

Stay on the high ground (in every sense). The best revenge is you living your best life ... including finding a partner that appreciates you and raising a family. 

Since this town is not good for your career, is there any point in you staying around once the papers are served? Maybe wait a few days and then take a couple of weeks or longer (don't tell her your plans..she doesn't need to know where you are). Has your attorney advised you?


----------



## FloridaGuy123

bandit.45 said:


> I just don't understand why you have to be the one to leave the house. When you leave she will bring OM in and screw him on your marital bed. Can you handle that? Even if you do file and are legally separated, why do you need to leave? Make her leave. She's the one who wants the break.
> 
> I am more and more starting to agree that this is an exit affair for her.


I haven't gone anywhere. But when you're negotiating with someone, if they think you've conceded something, they continue reveal more info. If you dig in and fight, so do they. 

Whether it is, or it isn't...

it is. 

The day I "leave", the paperwork shows up at her office. Working this out with attorney now. This forum has been really helpful.


----------



## bandit.45

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I haven't gone anywhere. But when you're negotiating with someone, if they think you've conceded something, they continue reveal more info. If you dig in and fight, so do they.
> 
> Whether it is, or it isn't...
> 
> it is.
> 
> The day I "leave", the paperwork shows up at her office. Working this out with attorney now. This forum has been really helpful.


I just don't want you doing anything that could jeopardize you losing your interest in the equity of the house. Make sure you get your lawyer's advice before leaving the residence. Do you have an apartment lined up?


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> Good idea to serve the divorce papers just ahead of the trip. 3-4 weeks is probably a trip she has planned (her mother or resident buddy or boyfriend).
> If it's her mother or girlfriend, she may drop the news that the marriage is on the rocks and it's all your fault.
> 
> Based on some of the things you said, it sounds like every time she talks to the other guy (e.g., around Noon) - he drives the wedge further between you. At this time avoid the other guy and stick to your plan (or as they say in finance: trade the plan).
> 
> Stay on the high ground (in every sense). The best revenge is you living your best life ... including finding a partner that appreciates you and raising a family.
> 
> Since this town is not good for your career, is there any point in you staying around once the papers are served? Maybe wait a few days and then take a couple of weeks or longer (don't tell her your plans..she doesn't need to know where you are). Has your attorney advised you?


Waiting to hear back from him. As soon as I can get in there and explain, we'll make and then execute a plan.


----------



## Robert22205

My wife and I both agree with your assessment (and you're lucky you found out before having kids with her) where you said:

... think the clearer explanation is that she has always been a person of ****ty character, and it was masked by the relentless pursuit of her professional goals. With their achievement, it floats to the surface.


----------



## Chaparral

FloridaGuy123 said:


> He is the manager of a retail operation. This is not a boss in any meaningful sense. Does the guy managing DSW seem like a boss to you? (it's not DSW but it's that tier).
> 
> He got there because he's got the IQ of a watermelon and that's what is needed to do that job. I was a Navy officer with a very high stress job, have a degree in science and owned a successful business. During her fellowship, I didn't sit around and fold her clothes. In fact, I achieved something so demanding and so high profile that revealing it would immediately out me. I literally can't say anything else anonymously; it suffices to say that when we meet people, they _still_ (it's been 2 years) ask about it. Complete strangers in foreign countries have walked up to me and started conversations about it.
> 
> I understand the scenario you're laying out, I've heard it before and seen it with other guys, etc. It may apply to some extent here, but think the clearer explanation is that she has always been a person of ****ty character, and it was masked by the relentless pursuit of her professional goals. With their achievement, it floats to the surface.
> 
> 
> 
> You sort of can. Faithfulness in marriage is the response to millions of years of DNA, otherwise I would just be out reproducing with anyone and everyone. Other consequences of evolution include 1400cc brains and the ability to make choices at a higher level than a dog. I don't take advantage of sexual opportunities that present themselves, because I can make a choice. I choose to be a husband, not to bang every girl that smiles at me in the gym. Do I want to, on some primitive level? yeah, of course. Then, I choose not to.
> 
> 
> 
> This could all be true, but a person so easily played reveals themselves as an unsuitable partner for me. In a way I should say thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I lol'ed at the dogs comment. But at the same time, those dogs may have rescued me from a real problem.
> 
> 
> 
> All things in time.


Not familiar with DSW.

Studies do show women are susceptible to adultery on an approximate 7 year schedule. There are more than one evolutionary theories to account for that. I personally believe almost anyone can fall for someone else if all the wrong elements line up. As a matter of fact, medical people and teachers are particularly at risk. Look up how to pick up married women. It’s simply a fine tuned sales manipulation job.

We have seen quite a few ex military guys here that are plenty alpha in real life but omega with the one woman they love more than anything. Kind of like the star high school football player that would go into a burning building to rescue a dog but can’t call the girl he has a crush on for a date.

If your wife had been told a year ago she would be doing this she would have laughed her head off. Now she is in the mode of preserving her self respect and losing everything. 

Ask her if she would like you to drop her stuff from at (boyfriends name) house. I would have to confront her like this just before she was served. 

How much trouble will it be for you to get back t the city you liked? Does the lawyer say you have to stick around during the divorce?


----------



## Tron

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Coincidentally, or not, she told me she wanted to take a break and needs 3-4 weeks. If I can coordinate with my lawyer, I will agree to the break and serve her immediately at the "start" of the break. I found the request for a specific time frame to be awkward.



Translation: *Let's take a break while I test ride the other guy cleanly and under the guise of being separated. You are now my Plan B.*

Comical!


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Chaparral said:


> Not familiar with DSW.
> 
> Studies do show women are susceptible to adultery on an approximate 7 year schedule. There are more than one evolutionary theories to account for that. I personally believe almost anyone can fall for someone else if all the wrong elements line up. As a matter of fact, medical people and teachers are particularly at risk. Look up how to pick up married women. It’s simply a fine tuned sales manipulation job.


No disagreement here



> We have seen quite a few ex military guys here that are plenty alpha in real life but omega with the one woman they love more than anything. Kind of like the star high school football player that would go into a burning building to rescue a dog but can’t call the girl he has a crush on for a date.


I was merely making the point that while I accommodated her goals, I didn't at all give up on mine to cater to her or turn into a beta male / stay at home Dad type. (No disrespect to the SAHD; I'm just referencing the stereotype that you alluded to). We compromised, I changed directions a little, but I very much had my own life and my own goals and my own achievements while she did fellowship. I just also did a lot to support her, including stuff like laundry and grocery shopping. Were there some things I did wrong? probably. Could I have been a better husband? Sure. I'm not perfect. But - just judging by the character of the friends I have - I am a high quality person. 

Also, I didn't **** anyone else. So there's that.



> If your wife had been told a year ago she would be doing this she would have laughed her head off. Now she is in the mode of preserving her self respect and losing everything.


That is spot on. 



> Ask her if she would like you to drop her stuff from at (boyfriends name) house. I would have to confront her like this just before she was served.


Very tempting. Veeeeeeeeery tempting to just say something. Still I continue to think the revelation that "he knew all along" is more profound when delivered via process server. 



> How much trouble will it be for you to get back t the city you liked? Does the lawyer say you have to stick around during the divorce?


No trouble at all. Connections are deep and well established. Lawyer is in court today.


----------



## Beach123

Have you done your prep work by moving money to your name only and closing credit cards. 

If you have life ins - have you changed the beneficiary yet?


Keep thinking of ways to protect what is yours...and take actions that remove her from benefitting long term.


----------



## skerzoid

So far so good. Things will get complicated when the excrement hits the propeller. Be ready for all contingencies. 

1. She sees the light and wants "to work on the marriage".

2. She agrees to the divorce and wants to wait for the other guy to dump his wife.  She may give you everything you ask for. See donesies thread.

3. He dumps her instead, and she then wants "to work on the marriage". (Plan B)

4. She goes nuclear and tries every dirty action of which she can think. Beware the false accusations of abuse and such. Keep a VAR on you at all times.

5. Best to "ghost" her after she is served and refuse to communicate except through lawyers. 180 at the very least.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Skerzoid is right on! 180 to work on you and get you in a good place. Go NC and ghost. Let the thousand $ and hour lawyer have to deal with her....


----------



## Tron

skerzoid said:


> 5. Best to "ghost" her after she is served and refuse to communicate except through lawyers. 180 at the very least.


On the threads where the BS does this, and the WS isn't totally checked out, it always seems like the WS's fog lifts lightning quick.


----------



## BluesPower

FloridaGuy123 said:


> No disagreement here
> 
> I was merely making the point that while I accommodated her goals, I didn't at all give up on mine to cater to her or turn into a beta male / stay at home Dad type. (No disrespect to the SAHD; I'm just referencing the stereotype that you alluded to). We compromised, I changed directions a little, but I very much had my own life and my own goals and my own achievements while she did fellowship. I just also did a lot to support her, including stuff like laundry and grocery shopping. Were there some things I did wrong? probably. Could I have been a better husband? Sure. I'm not perfect. But - just judging by the character of the friends I have - I am a high quality person.
> 
> Also, I didn't **** anyone else. So there's that.
> 
> That is spot on.
> 
> Very tempting. Veeeeeeeeery tempting to just say something. Still I continue to think the revelation that "he knew all along" is more profound when delivered via process server.
> 
> No trouble at all. Connections are deep and well established. Lawyer is in court today.


Honestly brother, you are the man. How you can contain yourself and be so cool under pressure is astounding. 

I want you to post everything she says when she realizes she it toast. It could go one of two ways, I just want to see which one. 

And make no mistake, you have done nothing wrong, in any of this...


----------



## Kamstel

I know you’re hurting, but you’re doing a great job. I hope you hear back from your lawyer today, and you can get her served at the start of her little lovers vacation/separation.

What do you think would be the most effective way to shock her while she still in her fog. To serve her just before she goes away on vacation with her lover, or, to have her served at work?

Once again you’re doing exceptionally well. Keep moving forward


----------



## just got it 55

Kamstel said:


> I know you’re hurting, but you’re doing a great job. I hope you hear back from your lawyer today, and you can get her served at the start of her little lovers vacation/separation.
> 
> What do you think would be the most effective way to shock her while she still in her fog. To serve her just before she goes away on vacation with her lover, or, to have her served at work?
> 
> Once again you’re doing exceptionally well. Keep moving forward


Textbook Fla Textbook

55


----------



## Decorum

FloridaGuy123 said:


> It was a negotiating tactic.


Speaking of which, bringing up divorce, and taking a break is one of hers.

Usually it's just a ruse to give them time, and a reason to avoid physical intimacy.

They feel like they are cheating on their affair partner if they have sex with you, plus the AP is often jealous of the husband and the WS's natural loyalty is now toward the AP.

It's not that they had a sudden dose of integrity, like "maybe I am dispictable for leading on a loving and loyal spouse"

It is far more reprehensible than that. They are willing to put their loyal spouse through a painful hellish limbo, to give the happy couple peace of mind.

It's like telling someone they have a terminal illness when they don't, putting them through the mental anguish associated with it just to control them.

To be sure sometimes they are getting their ducks in a row to leave, maybe divorce, but playing that card is often precipitated by the loyal spouse closing in on the truth.

Sometimes they only want to maintain the affair, and never planned to divorce.

FG, you have more spot on natural instincts, and practicality than most Betrayed Spouses I see on here, or know of.

I honestly feel like there is little I can add to your understanding, but I do believe that reading the appropriate rationales related to infidelity that others have written is confirming and supportive.

Infidelity is unlike any other problems in a marriage, and the correct strategy is so often counter-intuitive.

Mainly because of the shift in loyalty, abandonment of personal morals, and corresponding level of dishonesty on the part of the Wayward Spouse.

You are not just part of the solution to a problem of your needs versus her needs, or respect, or validation, or comfort, etc.

You are the problem, your very presence is the problem, and they resent you for just being there. 

It's a no win, and any attempt to do the things that would normally improve a relationship, like communication, consideration, etc., only make it worse.

It's like, "be a good boy, get out of the way, and drop off the face of the earth".

That said, stay the course, and I really wish you well.
Take care.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

skerzoid said:


> So far so good. Things will get complicated when the excrement hits the propeller. Be ready for all contingencies.
> 
> 1. She sees the light and wants "to work on the marriage".
> 
> 2. She agrees to the divorce and wants to wait for the other guy to dump his wife. She may give you everything you ask for. See donesies thread.
> 
> 3. He dumps her instead, and she then wants "to work on the marriage". (Plan B)
> 
> 4. She goes nuclear and tries every dirty action of which she can think. Beware the false accusations of abuse and such. Keep a VAR on you at all times.
> 
> 5. Best to "ghost" her after she is served and refuse to communicate except through lawyers. 180 at the very least.


Getting similar advice from smart friends. 

1. is possible. 
2. is probably the most likely
3. once she is around him more, it's less exotic. totally possible. 
4. Also possible. She can go filthy dirty but I've never been unfaithful. Worst case is she cuts me off from money, but I have a plan for that. 
5. Will discuss with lawyer. Didn't hear back yet. 

Thanks! Much appreciated


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Beach123 said:


> Have you done your prep work by moving money to your name only and closing credit cards.
> 
> If you have life ins - have you changed the beneficiary yet?
> 
> 
> Keep thinking of ways to protect what is yours...and take actions that remove her from benefitting long term.


I have about $10k in my name only. No joint CCs. 

I also have a friend from the Navy who got out and had a decent Wall Street career. He and his wife own a few beach houses in FL that they use as AirBnB's, and they've told me if I need to set up for a while, I can stay as long as I need. We go back a long time and it's a sincere offer. So I've got a decent place to stay when the storm hits


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Decorum said:


> *You are the problem, your very presence is the problem, and they resent you for just being there. *
> 
> That said, stay the course, and I really wish you well.
> Take care.


The light went on when I was talking to a friend a few months ago when she first started being moodier than usual. 

"I don't know why she's so upset. We have everything. We are healthy, successful, richer than anyone has ever been in our families, statistically the 1%, you love your work, I have the freedom to start a new business. We ski in the Swiss Alps. I was in 7 countries last year, none of them in North America."

Then I said

_"Literally the only thing we can't do is bang other people"_

Bam! Light clicked on and I started looking. And finding. And finding. And planning. 

It sucks. It really sucks. but the cold clarity of the truth is nice to have. I really feel bad for people with suspicions and light evidence.


----------



## Tron

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I have about $10k in my name only. No joint CCs.
> 
> I also have a friend from the Navy who got out and had a decent Wall Street career. He and his wife own a few beach houses in FL that they use as AirBnB's, and they've told me if I need to set up for a while, I can stay as long as I need. We go back a long time and it's a sincere offer. So I've got a decent place to stay when the storm hits


You are entitled to half the marital cash, if you can get your hands on it.


----------



## Kamstel

Hang in there!

Yes, there are still some rough days ahead, but at least you can now see the exit from Hell!

Be strong and keep moving forward with your plan!


----------



## OnTheFly

Decorum said:


> Infidelity is unlike any other problems in a marriage, and the correct strategy is so often counter-intuitive.
> 
> Mainly because of the shift in loyalty, abandonment of personal morals, and corresponding level of dishonesty on the part of the Wayward Spouse.


Quote of the week.


----------



## Robert22205

I doubt the other guy will dump her .... she's worth $40,000 per month to him (she's the big & only $ score of his life). She's damaged in the head and will cheat on him too (if she marries him).


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> I doubt the other guy will dump her .... she's worth $40,000 per month to him (she's the big & only $ score of his life). She's damaged in the head and will cheat on him too (if she marries him).


$40,000 - my support payments.


----------



## eric1

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I've reached out to my lawyer and told him I am ready to serve her, just want to check and make sure that everything is set up correctly so I don't act against my own interests.
> 
> 
> 
> It's time. I WOULD do it all over again, but I won't do it anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Coincidentally, or not, she told me she wanted to take a break and needs 3-4 weeks. If I can coordinate with my lawyer, I will agree to the break and serve her immediately at the "start" of the break. I found the request for a specific time frame to be awkward.




It’s called a ‘test drive’ of the new man


----------



## eric1

FloridaGuy123 said:


> No disagreement here
> 
> 
> 
> I was merely making the point that while I accommodated her goals, I didn't at all give up on mine to cater to her or turn into a beta male / stay at home Dad type. (No disrespect to the SAHD; I'm just referencing the stereotype that you alluded to). We compromised, I changed directions a little, but I very much had my own life and my own goals and my own achievements while she did fellowship. I just also did a lot to support her, including stuff like laundry and grocery shopping. Were there some things I did wrong? probably. Could I have been a better husband? Sure. I'm not perfect. But - just judging by the character of the friends I have - I am a high quality person.
> 
> Also, I didn't **** anyone else. So there's that.
> 
> 
> 
> That is spot on.
> 
> 
> 
> Very tempting. Veeeeeeeeery tempting to just say something. Still I continue to think the revelation that "he knew all along" is more profound when delivered via process server.
> 
> 
> 
> No trouble at all. Connections are deep and well established. Lawyer is in court today.




You are completely right


----------



## Beach123

40K per month? I thought that was an annual amount...


Yes, request spousal support for sure!!!


----------



## Robert22205

I agree with you comment:
"But - just judging by the character of the friends I have - I am a high quality person."

You're in good company with that observation ... Ben Franklin said something similar about judging a man by who is friends are.

And speaking of low quality people (your wife) ....you are so lucky she isn't the mother of your child.
Painful but ultimately good for you as well as the next generation.
You get a clean do over.


----------



## Chaparral

If you have a joint account, simply move half the money into your own private acct just before she’s served.


----------



## Chaparral

If you have a joint account, simply move half the money into your own private acct just before she’s served.


----------



## Robert22205

If she asks how you became suspicious or how/where you got the evidence, you might respond that it was several anonymous calls from a man.
Just to throw a monkey wrench into the other guy's romantic plans.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Robert22205 said:


> If she asks how you became suspicious or how/where you got the evidence, you might respond that it was several anonymous calls from a man.
> Just to throw a monkey wrench into the other guy's romantic plans.


Better yet, several anonymous calls from an irate woman!


----------



## Robert22205

Along with recorded phone conversations (which you later deleted).


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Chaparral said:


> If you have a joint account, simply move half the money into your own private acct just before she’s served.


This is planned. Exactly half, same day. Not going to take everything or do anything shady. Just half.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> Along with recorded phone conversations (which you later deleted).


She is beginning the process of trashing me to her family. This is absurd because they like me and always have. Of course now I have to be turned into some horrible demon to justify her other actions 

It would be fun to play those recordings for them. I'll likely never get the chance. That's OK, too.


----------



## Robert22205

How do you know that? 

Yep she's trashing you rather than accepting responsibility (and guilt) for her immoral and deceitful behavior. 

One reply would be.... why did she wait so long before sharing with family? I'm sure they see her as strong and assertive and not someone that would be driven into any inappropriate behavior.


----------



## Kamstel

Have you been able to talk to the lawyer this morning?


----------



## Tron

FloridaGuy123 said:


> She is beginning the process of trashing me to her family. This is absurd because they like me and always have. Of course now I have to be turned into some horrible demon to justify her other actions
> 
> It would be fun to play those recordings for them. I'll likely never get the chance. That's OK, too.


Standard procedure for a cheater.

Don't let her control the narrative. 

When she is served, expose her.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

I talked with their office. I am going in on 7/3 (Tuesday), paying the retainer and starting this process. I guess I will probably agree to start the "break" next week, and use the intervening days to get my **** in order and make this happen. 

I expect to lose access to the joint account soon. I know she can't close me out of it, but she can take the money and stop the deposits. I have few monthly bills so that won't be a huge issue; I have enough money to eat and enough support system to be OK through the process. 

To be decided (as far as I know)

- split up assets, financial and non-financial. There isn't a ton. We have some $20k worth of furniture and another $10k of electronics. 
- dog custody 
- amount and duration of support payments 

That's pretty much it. Not a ton to fight over. 

It's probably in my interest emotionally to not be around when the paperwork is served, which I think will likely be next week-ish. I can't see it getting done any sooner. This is where we are.


----------



## Chaparral

I hate to say this but when she contacts you after you have her served and she asks you why, just tell her you don’t want to be married to a lying, cheating, w**** that’s just like her father.

Just so you know, a miserable 3% or couples that get together through adultery make a go of it. Only ten percent make it three years.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Chaparral said:


> I hate to say this but when she contacts you after you have her served and she asks you why, just tell her you don’t want to be married to a lying, cheating, w**** that’s just like her father.


I had something like this planned. Initially I was not going to expose her (for negotiating reasons) but now I think I probably will. What she did is really awful, and the months of lying about it are awful-er. 




> Just so you know, a miserable 3% or couples that get together through adultery make a go of it. Only ten percent make it three years.


I'm surprised it's* that* high.


----------



## bandit.45

Go somewhere by yourself for a few days while she gets served. 

When you do eventually talk to her, tell her you have physical evidence (not recordings!) of her affair and that you will be more than happy to share said evidence with her family if she decides to trash your rep or get mean in the divorce. Tell her if she plays nice that she can tell everyone that the two of you just lost touch and that it is better if you just split amicably, and that is the story you will give everyone. You won't divulge her big secret, and in exchange she gives you a fair and amicable divorce if she wants to save face with her family. 

Use what you have as leverage to get what you want.


----------



## Tobyboy

The stakes are high in this mess. My suggestion is to get evidence from a independent “third party” i.e. private investigator, before you serve or confront. 

Huge difference when the “proof” comes from a PI rather from a “psycho” husband.


----------



## Yeswecan

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I'm surprised it's* that* high.


My guess is many try to make it work so they appear as "making the right decision". It is going to cave. Just a matter of time.


----------



## Beach123

Move money now - because if you wait she has a chance to move all of it before you move your half!

It will send up red flags for her - but who cares at this point? If she asks - you tell her you moved your half.

Get copies of her pay stubs. Copies of tax returns too.

Do it now before there's no chance to do it.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@FloridaGuy123

When you have got this all done and dusted, I hope you stick around and help some folks out. Your concise decision making and intuitiveness is refreshing.


----------



## Robert22205

Why wait?
If there's a substantial amount of cash to divide, I suggest you consider transferring/withdrawing your share in advance of serving the divorce notice.
Tell her that you feel she's pulling away from you and it's time to set up separate accounts.

Ouch....this will be a long painful next 4-5 days of seeing her everyday and pretending you don't know she's living a lie?

Why do you have to be in town until Tuesday? Can you make the legal arrangements via fax and/or wire transfer etc?


----------



## Robert22205

Based on her attitude it's possible that she believes she paid for everything so all the cash and other property is all hers.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Beach123 said:


> Move money now - because if you wait she has a chance to move all of it before you move your half!
> 
> It will send up red flags for her - but who cares at this point? If she asks - you tell her you moved your half.
> 
> Get copies of her pay stubs. Copies of tax returns too.
> 
> Do it now before there's no chance to do it.


She is employed on a 3-year contract with a guaranteed FLOOR of over $500k plus a bonus. She is in the worst possible spot to hide income; the $500k+ is *contractually guaranteed* for 2 more years.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Tobyboy said:


> The stakes are high in this mess. My suggestion is to get evidence from a independent “third party” i.e. private investigator, before you serve or confront.
> 
> Huge difference when the “proof” comes from a PI rather from a “psycho” husband.


It's from third parties.


----------



## Beach123

Keep a copy of her contract! Definitely request spousal support!

On the day she gets paid - early in the morning - transfer half her pay to your solo account each and every payday until she puts a stop to any monies being deposited in the joint account.

Until it changes - half that money is legally yours.


Stay three steps ahead of her!


----------



## Decorum

Robert22205 said:


> Ouch....this will be a long painful next 4-5 days of seeing her everyday and pretending you don't know she's living a lie?


So sorry FG, waiting for a chance to act, a difficult test!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Decorum said:


> So sorry FG, waiting for a chance to act, a difficult test!


I lined it up what I thought perfectly, found out everything on December 12th of last year, laid in wait for about 10 days, got the serving papers ready, informed her family of the process since they had been helping me along the past 3.5 months since they found out she had at the time was only thought of as an EA. Then tried to serve and OM's wife found out all on the same day.

She was devastated but only devastated that she thought she lost the love of her life forever (not me, OM). 

She was already way too far gone but luckily for her, she had a mutual friend with OM that became their messenger and bridged the gap for a few weeks and made her feel better that her chances weren't over just yet and the love affair resumed in the middle of January, only to be busted up in March again but by then, they probably had a lot of contingencies of how to communicate or lie to the OM's wife the next time it busted open. My STBXW was devastated during the December bust but she hardly even batted an eye when it happened again in March which led me to believe they were prepared for it the 2nd time and nothing really changed except I stopped my PI work after the 2nd time, I had done all that I could and wanted to do.


----------



## just got it 55

FloridaGuy123 said:


> $40,000 - my support payments.


Fla G Just tell when the judge decrees the support payment

Thats the ****ing you get for the ****ing you got.>

55


----------



## FloridaGuy123

OK - quick check in -

I found...well...let's just say it's suggestive pictures of her, just her, taken with a time and date stamp that indicate they were taken when she was with the other guy. It was a lot to handle, then I realized I already know the details. My wife has a deep hole in her soul, it is tragic, but I can't help her. I've tried. I've been a good husband. Now I need to be smart husband as I navigate this minefield. I took a deep breath and made a plan. 

Tomorrow I am going to see some family in Ohio for the weekend. I haven't told anyone and don't plan to yet. Not even my family. 

First thing in the morning I am taking approx half the money out of our accounts. I will leave (half the cash + July's bills money) and take the rest. She'll get a notification of the transaction, but I will simply text her that I am headed out of town, I don't know where things are headed with us, and I wanted to take some money in case this turns into an extended break. etc etc.

I feel bad leaving my pups. I really do. 

I've secured important legal stuff (her contract, tax returns, pay stubs) and sentimental items (some Navy stuff, childhood pics and memorabilia from what I did in 2016). You just never know what an enraged person might do, throw out, etc. _Childhood pic with your grandpa when he was 87? In the trash._ You just never know.

I'm new at this. I'm clearheaded but I am also close to the fire. Is there anything else I should be thinking through over the next 12 hours?


----------



## Kamstel

Good job with the planning,

Enjoy the comfort and security of being with your family in Ohio


----------



## Marc878

I would cut off all contact. Talk gets you nothing in these situations. Turn off your phone and get out of the habit of responding to phone calls texts. She wants space so give it to her.


----------



## PaulB

Decorum said:


> So sorry FG, waiting for a chance to act, a difficult test!


Honestly, the focus on the strategy at hand is a damn good distraction from the emotional soup that would be the focus otherwise.


----------



## Thor

FloridaGuy123 said:


> My wife has a deep hole in her soul, it is tragic, but I can't help her. I've tried. I've been a good husband. Now I need to be smart husband as I navigate this minefield. I took a deep breath and made a plan.


A great song by Chuck Cannon about that. https://youtu.be/3mo4f9uGKFA


----------



## eric1

Go 100% dark. Though you are clear headed what happens at this point is she’ll either gaslight or otherwise attack you. You need 72 hours of being removed from the immediate vicinity of the problem. 

With that said, having her served first is more strategically sound. I understand if you cannot wait, though.


----------



## ABHale

Send her the picture you found of her. 

“I guess I know why you want the break.”

Then let her know if she doesn’t stop trying to make you out the bad guy, you will let her family know the real reason for the divorce.


----------



## Robert22205

Excellent short term and long term action plan. Your emotions are running high (but strategic thinking is over for now) so just trust and execute your plan. 
Take as much personal stuff (and records) as you can carry as if you plan to never to return. I'm talking really personal stuff like your favorite hat, slippers, PJs, or shoes slacks or whatever....the stuff that helps make you feel at home while you're on the road. 

If you can, take one dog? It would provide a lot of support and company.

Good luck to you. Check in with us whenever you can. You're not alone.


----------



## Kamstel

Hang In there and do what must be done


----------



## eric1

ABHale said:


> Send her the picture you found of her.
> 
> “I guess I know why you want the break.”
> 
> Then let her know if she doesn’t stop trying to make you out the bad guy, you will let her family know the real reason for the divorce.


While I am favor of "fighting back" - in this case going dark is the best plan. Anything else he does can be misconstrued as petty. By going dark it's 100% clear that he is above this **** and dealing with it is unquestionably below his station in life. 

It forces her hand. Anything he gives her will be used against him in some way.


----------



## ABHale

eric1 said:


> While I am favor of "fighting back" - in this case going dark is the best plan. Anything else he does can be misconstrued as petty. By going dark it's 100% clear that he is above this **** and dealing with it is unquestionably below his station in life.
> 
> It forces her hand. Anything he gives her will be used against him in some way.


Sending the pic was just to show her secret was out. 

Letting the family know is just to protect his name.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

I've wrestled with the idea of revealing _this_ or _that_ or of dropping hints or being vaguely on target here and there. 

My lawyer suggested not to reveal it before the papers are served, because she'll reinvent reality. Even though I've got solid proof, she'll wrap 85 layers around it, not to mention challenge admissibility and all that. He suggested I wait for her to either come clean or wait until she's served and it's in the filing. In short, he said it doesn't do any good to reveal anything. 

The "I'll keep this quiet if you settle amicably" card is a nice one to have, and I'm not going to trade it away just yet. Also, let her think through all of this. She's the one who cheated; let her carry some of the stress. 

She's gotten a free ride for a while. I've done all the (non-sexual) husband stuff, she's been out and about cheating. Now things become real. A bunch of money left our account today. Papers come next week, a few days after she thinks she's "starting a break". 

I think she really thought she could line it all up so (1) she gets a divorce (2) blames me (to her friends and family) for being a bad husband (3) negotiates against me when I am low on money and will take a bad settlement (4) pretend she met the new guy on break. In this plan, she walks away free and clear socially and well-off financially

By NOT revealing anything I know, I've been able to get a decent handle on her strategy and negotiate against it. Now I've put the pieces in place where the only thing she can get from her list is (1).


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

I would let her know you have the pictures. Tell her that they may be on the way to her mom and dad if she does not play ball your way, introduce as part of the filing.This is your leverage to make sure you get what you want. You cannot be a nice guy. You must become indifferent and ruthless towards her.

Don’t get mad....get what you want.


----------



## stro

Your plan was good as is. I wouldn’t tell her ANYTHING about what you know. Tell her what you are doing as you described. Be respectful amicable and brief. Drop no hints, reveal nothing,then go dark until she is served, tell no one until then.


----------



## lucy999

Sounds like you have an excellent lawyer. Good job listening to him.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

At any point in the future, don't do or say anything explicitly that could find you accused of blackmail. It's better that she draws the conclusion about consequences herself.


----------



## TDSC60

Don't let your understandable urge to rub her face in all the **** she has created over rule your plan to follow the lawyer's advice.
You are doing well. I assume that "bunch of money" that left the account was 50% and it found it's way to an account she doesn't know about and cannot touch.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Are you recording ALL of your time with her? Do you have a recorder with you. It wouldn't be the first time that she shows up with marks and bruises during litigation to throw a wrench into everything you worked for....


You may need to go dark and get away for awhile....To limit the possibility of spousal "blow-back". If she is so concerned with making herself to be the saint in this debacle....She would go how far to get her results?


----------



## just got it 55

Fla very sound advice on both sides of the expose pics (To Her)

I think it best to a vague hint that you have some goods on her

Don't admit to anything yet let her stew on all the posibilities you could have on her

you don't have all the dirt yet so ...... she will be thinking I hope he doesn't know X Z or Z

and they could be Catastrophic to her Rep.

But in the end you must play this card to keep your name clear

In the end all we have is our name and reputation

The truth will always be.

So sorry you have to live with this ****

You sound like a gentleman by definition

55

ETA: Thank you for your service to our nation
I am in your debt for your contribution to mine and my families freedom

Now go bury this *****


----------



## FloridaGuy123

TDSC60 said:


> Don't let your understandable urge to rub her face in all the **** she has created over rule your plan to follow the lawyer's advice.
> You are doing well. I assume that "bunch of money" that left the account was 50% and it found it's way to an account she doesn't know about and cannot touch.


As emotions fluctuate, I remember that the path to getting what I want goes through a courtroom, and only a courtroom. Everything else is background noise. 

I am coming to learn that there are two conversations. The lawyers in Court and the lawyers to each other. My lawyer will have enough to say to hers, "_Look, we've got a strong case, she cheated, he didn't do anything wrong. She wants out? The right number is $xxxxx"_. And her lawyer will hopefully help her understand that. 

If my wife wants to go scorched earth and litigate this until 2021, there isn't much I can do. But I think confronting her and embarrassing her only creates and increases her desire to get me back, and the only venue she has for that is the Court. She can't embarrass me as I have been faithful, and a pretty good guy. Worst she can do is make up a story about supporting me and what a lazy bum I am, but that only plays with strangers who don't know us. Our joint friends know what I have done and what I do. I couldn't care less about strangers. Let her tell her colleagues I'm the worst doofus on earth. So what? If all goes well I will be in a beachfront condo next year by myself. Instead, if I keep this as decent and dignified as the circumstances allow, she's likely to think "let's get out" not "let's get him back" and agree to a reasonable number on a shorter timeline.

That's my reasoning. If I'm wrong, then it's out of my hands anyway.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

FloridaGuy123 said:


> As emotions fluctuate, I remember that the path to getting what I want goes through a courtroom, and only a courtroom. Everything else is background noise.
> 
> I am coming to learn that there are two conversations. The lawyers in Court and the lawyers to each other. My lawyer will have enough to say to hers, "_Look, we've got a strong case, she cheated, he didn't do anything wrong. She wants out? The right number is $xxxxx"_. And her lawyer will hopefully help her understand that.
> 
> If my wife wants to go scorched earth and litigate this until 2021, there isn't much I can do. But I think confronting her and embarrassing her only creates and increases her desire to get me back, and the only venue she has for that is the Court. She can't embarrass me as I have been faithful, and a pretty good guy. Worst she can do is make up a story about supporting me and what a lazy bum I am, but that only plays with strangers who don't know us. Our joint friends know what I have done and what I do. I couldn't care less about strangers. Let her tell her colleagues I'm the worst doofus on earth. So what? If all goes well I will be in a beachfront condo next year by myself. Instead, if I keep this as decent and dignified as the circumstances allow, she's likely to think "let's get out" not "let's get him back" and agree to a reasonable number on a shorter timeline.
> 
> That's my reasoning. If I'm wrong, then it's out of my hands anyway.


I like it! Get it done quick, get it done just and get on with your life ... the background noise will creep up on you and that's inevitable but you going through the motions of what has to be done is a great strategy. Be aware of curve balls that will come your way over the next few months but keep to the main focus.


----------



## Beach123

eric1 said:


> Go 100% dark. Though you are clear headed what happens at this point is she’ll either gaslight or otherwise attack you. You need 72 hours of being removed from the immediate vicinity of the problem.
> 
> With that said, having her served first is more strategically sound. I understand if you cannot wait, though.




Just do not respond to any contact she attempts to make.

Nothing!

She would only attempt to contact you to: a) manipulate or b) gather info on what the heck you're doing/going to do.


Let her wonder... she can sit with her own thoughts for a long while about what she has done to create this mess...


----------



## Robert22205

Tough sell for her to criticize you as lazy when the other man is just a retail clerk (divorced I think) with no history of accomplishments....she sure didn't trade up. Plus among her fellow doctor friends ... nobody is perfect but I think they know there's never any justification for her to commit adultery for many months while facing/lying to you every day. She's most likely viewed as a strong woman ... a surgeon ... so i don't see her family or friends seeing her as a timid mouse that had to act out behind your back (and cover up until you exposed her). 

It takes a deceitful mean spirited person to live like that. Frankly, I predict most of her professional friends will eventually pull back. Distancing yourself and going silent is a good strategy. 

Continue to check in. Remember you are not alone.


----------



## Robert22205

Just a thought. Just to be safe you may want to transfer your cash to another bank. The further out of her lawyer's reach the better. Banks get nervous when joint account owners litigate ... she's got a lot of money to litigate nasty.... and if there's a dispute, your bank may on their own initiative 'freeze' your funds (even if your money is in a separate account) until they receive a court order releasing it. 

Moving the money to another bank takes that power away from your current bank. 

Another option ... if you want the money trail to go cold... convert to cash and put it all in a safe deposit box. There's a federal law against putting cash in a safe deposit box but as a practical matter it can't be enforced. 

To move money immediately/quickly use a 'wire transfer'....there's no delay waiting for checks to clear.


----------



## farsidejunky

Bottom line: exposure is a tool for reconciliation, not a tool for divorce.

If the latter is your aim, carry on.

If you are entertaining any notion of the former, you need to reconsider.


----------



## eric1

You need to learn more about her boyfriend’s marital status. Knowledge is power.


----------



## Thor

Just don't hide the money or other assets. Judges get unpleasant when they discover it. Make sure to disclose everything to your lawyer and follow all requirements to disclose to your stbxw.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Just checking in

plan continues as intended

thanks for messages of support

more to come


----------



## Marc878

Good luck and take care in this hurtful and turbulent time. You're doing really well.


----------



## Robert22205

Thanks for checking in. Stick to your plan. Cheaters can do or accuse you of crazy things when first exposed .... to protect yourself stay out of town and surround yourself with friends/family - until the full reality of her situation sets in.

Check in anytime. You're not alone.


----------



## Decorum

Be emotionally prepared for this to just be accepted by her. Some of the scenarios we discussed could make this seem inevitable to her, however unhappy she may be about exposure.

That would not be a reflection upon you, just her acceptance that she has (in her thinking anyway) dug a hole too deep to climb out of.

After you light the fuse it may sizzle and spurt and die out like a bad 4th of July firework.

Just want to put that possibility out there.

Here is and interesting update.
The husband had no idea how elaborate the rabbit hole was, nor how damaged his wife was (similar to yours perhaps).



jasoncampbell said:


> Two years later... we are divorced.
> 
> A few weeks after my final post to this forum I stopped pretending everything was ok, and started pulling threads. I reached out to a contact I found on my ex-wife's phone when it all started. It was a message from a guy named Josh simply stating "Can't play this weekend, maybe Monday." which at the time she had convinced me was a creepy guy who wouldn't stop sending her disrespectful messages. At the time I asked her if she didn't mind me taking care of it, so I copied his phone number to mine and texted him to leave her alone. (keep in mind, this isn't the emotional affair guy, it's another one)
> 
> That week I decided to reach back to the guy and told him that my wife (at the time) and I had been in counseling for months and I was trying to help her cope. I told him what she told me she thought of him, and was interested to hear his side if the story. Amazing what kind of information you can get from a guy who was called a creep who wouldn't leave her alone. He didn't divulge everything but said he felt like a therapist to her. That when they met she wasn't wearing her ring and she didn't tell him she was married. He said she reciprocated in the playful games they were engaged in.
> 
> I confronted her about this and she played it off again, as his fault. I pushed more and she finally spilled the beans. She slept with this guy 2 days after meeting him in 2007, just 2 years into our marriage, while she was on vacation at her mothers beach. They continued to have a sexting relationship over skype and phone from that day forward. He knew nothing about the guy she was in an emotional affair with John, and he said they talked all the time about how she planned to leave me (probably his own excuse r rationalization for fraternizing with a married woman). She also told me at that point she had still been in contact with John, the emotional affair guy, that started this whole thing. She had lied about cutting off all contact with him and they set up secret e-mails and bought separate phones to still communicate. At that point she asked me if I'd consider an open marriage (for context she's is, on the surface, an extremely conservative Christian). She said she didn't want anyone to know, and encouraged me to find someone else. Ugh.
> 
> The reason she had stopped seeing our marriage counselor individually is because that came up in her session and the counselor said it was a conflict for her to advise us on the marriage and advise her on her continued infidelity. Makes sense that a month prior my marriage counselor told me "I think you finally have everything you need to make a decision here..." instead of her usual pep talk about working through everything.
> 
> For 5 days I swallowed my pride to see what else she would tell me, stating I needed everything if I was even going to consider staying. She openly discussed a 3rd guy she had started seeing while we were engaged, 10 years prior. She admitted to introducing our daughters to two of these 3 men and that she had physical affairs with all three, that none of them knew about the other. She also informed me she had lied to her own counselor about me, convincing each other that I had Asperger Syndrome.
> 
> I am convinced my ex-wife has Borderline Personality Disorder. She never apologized for any of her actions and over the next few days started to divulge more information about these men, speaking about them as if they had raped her. I stopped her in the middle of one of them "Why on earth would you take your 2 year old daughter in 2011 to meet a man who raped you in 2009? And then why on earth would you meet him again after privately so he could do it again?" Yes, she was trying to convince me that this guy, Josh, had raped her twice and that she never actually committed adultery because of it.
> 
> I found a 4th guy on October 1st 2013 and decided I had enough to realize this had nothing to do with me. I had been beating myself up for months, feeling like a failure, trying to fix things. That afternoon I saw a lawyer, and he said if she was speaking openly about stuff to try and get her on recording (legal in the state of Virginia). I went home that night and asked her to explain everything again one more time. She explained everything in detail for 20 minutes, which at the culmination I stood up, took my ring off and said "lets make this as easy for our daughters as possible... I can never trust you again, and I never will."
> 
> Immediately after the separation I started feeling better about myself. I started to realize just how co-dependent this relationship was. I started to see my part in that and I started to heal. I realized that nothing good can come from trying to analyze the behavior. I also quickly realized that expecting her to be truthful and play fair after divorce was just silly after everything she did in the marriage. I became strategic, yet fair, with everything and it's served me well, as well as my daughters. I wanted so badly to blast to the world what she had done to me but I only told my close friends and family. I don't need my daughters growing up knowing these things about their mother. I started protecting myself, mentally and emotionally. Focused on my daughters. Reconnected with my family and friends, everyone that I had been pushed from my life, in an effort to work on the marriage.
> 
> I am a better father today for all of this.
> 
> Broken people do not need to be fixed, they need to be supported so they can fix themselves. My entire marriage was a struggle because I attached to someone who I thought would always appreciate me standing by her, through everything bad that would come her way. I stood by way too long, but I'm glad I got the answers in the end. I walked away from it with clarity.


----------



## bandit.45

Floridaman I think your plan is sound. 

Just do not give away your sources. She will ask you a million times to tell her how you found out about her cheating and where you got the evidence. Just tell her its none of her business but that you will be happy to spread it liberally among family if she acts like a witch.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Meeting with lawyer today and then it's on. I have:

- copy of her employment contract
- tax return
- bank statements to show deposits and suspicious activity
- pics of her with the other guy
- texts and social media supporting the idea that I was a good husband

What else should I bring if I can?


----------



## Kamstel

Good luck. Stay strong 

You know you are doing the right thing. You know you are doing what MUST be done


----------



## TDSC60

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Meeting with lawyer today and then it's on. I have:
> 
> - copy of her employment contract
> - tax return
> - bank statements to show deposits and suspicious activity
> - pics of her with the other guy
> - texts and social media supporting the idea that I was a good husband
> 
> What else should I bring if I can?


Tax returns from the time you were in the first city. And returns for the time after you sold the business and moved to support her career.
Shows what you lost to support her.


----------



## Yeswecan

FloridaGuy123 said:


> What else should I bring if I can?


Your resolve to stay strong! Crappy situation handed to you. We are here for you.


----------



## Robert22205

Stick to the plan. Maybe leave town for a few days so you're not around when she's served. Good luck ...keep checking in....you are not alone.


----------



## Kamstel

How did meeting go with lawyer?


----------



## Beach123

Print out and date any and all debt. Show balances and transactions.

You may need evidence later what the balances were if she decides to run up any further debt.

Accurate balances (including mortgage amount) are an assurance that you won't get stuck with half of what she may spend moving forward.

My ex tried it - and I just calmly stated that I'd like to show evidence that I didn't spend that money and that I had printed out that those balances were zero when we separated - but mostly that ANY debt that was incurred was solely on him...not my responsibility. If I hadn't done that - I would have been stuck with half of the ten thousand he had charged thinking I'd be paying half. Keep thinking ahead and how you can protect yourself.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Kamstel said:


> How did meeting go with lawyer?


Very well. I presented some new evidence, including photos of my wife with the other guy, and my lawyer was absolutely stunned. He was so stunned that he called his partner and said "you ever seen anything like this?" They get pictures all the time. They rarely get pictures of the happy couple holding hands and being affectionate in public. I do my homework. 

His partner admitted that this quantity and quality of evidence was uncommon. 

Meanwhile, my wife has flown off the handle. I made a large (about 40% of the account) bank withdrawal from the joint account and she flipped out. "_You should have talked to me first_". So after she asked me for a break, I should talk things through with her? Sure, I'll get right on that. 

Then, a few little auto pays came through and she didn't like that AT ALL. We're talking like a few hundred bucks total against $40k / month income. _You should pay that with the money you took from *my* account._ (Note: it's a joint account).

She showed more fire over the money than she has in our marriage. Last night, 10 hours after telling me that my $200 in auto pays were intolerable, she texted to wish me a happy 4th. Um, ok, happy 4th to you as well. Complaint is drafted, probably gonna file and serve Monday. She'll be in the office, not the hospital, and I'm out of town. 

The next bank withdrawal is really gonna set her off!


----------



## seadoug105

You are doing awesome! Well planned, well prepared, executing with military precision. You background has prepared you well for this unfortunate task.

Best of luck to you and continued strength moving forward. There will be time to mourn what is lost after the dust settles!


----------



## Beach123

Good work!!

Did you request a large spousal support amount from her? I hope so!!


----------



## OutofRetirement

FloridaGuy123 said:


> *The next bank withdrawal is really gonna set her off! *


That made me smile.


----------



## Marc878

No response is needed.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I always love the irony. "Why didn't you check with me before a 10,000-dollar withdrawal from the bank?!"

"I dunno. Same reason you didn't you check with me before a 1-tablespoon deposit from your boyfriend?"


----------



## Beach123

Can you request half of her retirement plan money? And request that she has to keep a life insurance policy active with you as the beneficiary - that way if she dies your support payments are insured! 😀

That will really make her angry.


----------



## Robert22205

Thanks for checking in. Ouch ... but not surprised that she overlooks your honesty for only withdrawing 40% (i.e., 10% less) in order to compensate her for your share of the bills outstanding. 

Her communication sounds sort of irrational as well very entitled and delusional - and just reinforces your strategy to leave town. 

Will the paperwork she receives (when served) mention adultery and/or the other man's name? 

Do you plan to cut off all communication with her until after she agrees to your financial terms and an equitable division of property?


----------



## Kamstel

I know what you are doing is not easy, but you are doing a very good job.

Enjoy Ohio.

And enjoy her shocked reaction on Monday.


Are you now doing to expose the relationship to everyone?


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Robert22205 said:


> Thanks for checking in. Ouch ... but not surprised that she overlooks your honesty for only withdrawing 40% (i.e., 10% less) in order to compensate her for your share of the bills outstanding.
> 
> Her communication sounds sort of irrational as well very entitled and delusional - and just reinforces your strategy to leave town.
> 
> Will the paperwork she receives (when served) mention adultery and/or the other man's name?
> 
> Do you plan to cut off all communication with her until after she agrees to your financial terms and an equitable division of property?


Initially, my lawyer suggested excluding adultery, and surprising her with an amended complaint at subsequent hearing. Upon further discussion, we've agreed to file the complaint with adultery included. We decided that this was the quickest path to resolution. Let's stop the BS, you know? I did all that homework to prove the infidelity. 

She does seem incredibly entitled. I guess this character trait was hidden by her very genuine hard work in pursuit of her professional goals. Now that she has the huge income and the accompanying freedom, she thinks the rules don't apply. In essence, then, she has already divorced me. I'm just formalizing it.


----------



## farsidejunky

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Initially, my lawyer suggested excluding adultery, and surprising her with an amended complaint at subsequent hearing. Upon further discussion, we've agreed to file the complaint with adultery included. We decided that this was the quickest path to resolution. Let's stop the BS, you know? I did all that homework to prove the infidelity.
> 
> She does seem incredibly entitled. I guess this character trait was hidden by her very genuine hard work in pursuit of her professional goals. Now that she has the huge income and the accompanying freedom, she thinks the rules don't apply. In essence, then, she has already divorced me. I'm just formalizing it.


Entitlement in infidelity is very common, even from waywards who previously did not demonstrate such behavior.

In essence, the entitlement can become one more form of gaslighting.

Your path is clear. I like your attorney. 

Your WS is in for a shock. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Kamstel said:


> I know what you are doing is not easy, but you are doing a very good job.
> 
> Enjoy Ohio.
> 
> And enjoy her shocked reaction on Monday.
> 
> 
> Are you now doing to expose the relationship to everyone?


I'm back in Florida. Elsewhere in Florida 

I have not yet exposed it to anyone. When she reacts on Monday, I will calmly inform her that I haven't told anyone yet. This may be negotiating leverage, so I will not play this card until I see what's on the table. 

I believe there is a 40% chance she will deny the infidelity. "we were just friends etc." After all, she's been living in a fantasy world, lying to me, lying to our counselor, literally living a lie, splitting her world into two different realities. On Monday, they will meet in a manner that she no longer controls. The loss of control will produce God-only-knows what. 

My lawyer said this type of insane denial happens all the time. However, with the pictures, texts and bank records, the period of denial will hopefully be short, as will the time to resolution. 

I feel no happiness. I know I am doing the right thing. So that provides some comfort.


----------



## bandit.45

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I'm back in Florida. Elsewhere in Florida
> 
> I have not yet exposed it to anyone. When she reacts on Monday, I will calmly inform her that I haven't told anyone yet. *This may be negotiating leverage, so I will not play this card until I see what's on the table.
> *


*BJ Hunnicut: * "Frank.... blackmail is such an ugly word."
*
Hawkeye Pierce:* "Yeah...we prefer _extortion_."


----------



## Taxman

I have represented a BW against a physician WH. The level of entitlement was stupefying. Only when we were going to present evidence of the affair being carried out in the hospital, did the SOB actually grow some humility. We had him dead to rights, and there was a question as to whether this could be taken to the medical association for further discipline. He realized he stood to lose his license to practice and quickly adopted a cover your ass kind of mentality.


----------



## Kamstel

Keep moving forward!

Protect yourself at all costs!
If that means her world needs to be burned to the ground, so be it! She was the one that poured the gasoline and lit the match!


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Lets not forget....She has a medical license. That should put all of us aware. If she is entitled that much, what else could be going on.....


----------



## Lila

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I have not yet exposed it to anyone. When she reacts on Monday, I will calmly inform her that I haven't told anyone yet. This may be negotiating leverage, so I will not play this card until I see what's on the table.


If you've filed the divorce on the grounds of adultey don't you also have to submit the evidence you have to support your complaint? It's going to get exposed whether she wants it to our not. There's no point in using exposure to negotiate leverage. It's a matter of public record now, no? 

Are you using the adultey complaint to get more money out of her? Are you looking to get back lost wages for the 3.5 years you were married and could have been earning more money in your previous place of residence? I'm just trying to figure out what you're negotiating for, above and beyond the 50% of the assets you're entitled to.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dyokemm

Lila said:


> If you've filed the divorce on the grounds of adultey don't you also have to submit the evidence you have to support your complaint? It's going to get exposed whether she wants it to our not. There's no point in using exposure to negotiate leverage. It's a matter of public record now, no?
> 
> Are you using the adultey complaint to get more money out of her? Are you looking to get back lost wages for the 3.5 years you were married and could have been earning more money in your previous place of residence? I'm just trying to figure out what you're negotiating for, above and beyond the 50% of the assets you're entitled to.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Lila,

It being part of the public court record is very different than having OP call up all her friends and family to expose what she has done.

When my cousin’s WW (nurse) left him for an older POS (doctor), no one would have ever known the reason if he had not exposed.....I know for sure I would have never looked up his D filing to see the cause listed.....it was in there, but how many people are actually curious enough to go dig into records for that research?

OP is smart to have that card to play.....

Agree to a quick and fair resolution.....fair including recompensating him for all the financial support he gave his WW so she could even earn her degree and license......and her crappy behavior will not be broadcast to everyone she knows.

And he does deserve to be fully compensated.

I know a woman (family friend) who had this happen to her.

She fully supported her WH and the family while he went through medical school.....then he up and left her with their 5 kids as soon as his career started really paying.

Luckily, she was able to take his sorry a** to the cleaners in the D....but man did he whine and complain about how she was using the courts to steal ‘his’ money.

POS would have never even had his medical degree and license if it had not been for her support through the years.

IMO he got everything he deserved due to his crappy behavior and betrayal of the woman who had helped him get there.


----------



## Lila

Dyokemm said:


> Lila,
> 
> It being part of the public court record is very different than having OP call up all her friends and family to expose what she has done.


I'm trying to put myself in her shoes. There are no guarantees that he won't expose even after she agrees to his terms. Again, it's in the public record. If it were me, I'd let the chips fall where they may and fight his demands for this very reason. 

I wonder if it would not have been better for him to keep it out of the public record and negotiate privately. It's all conjecture at this point. The ball has been set in motion. 



Dyokemm said:


> When my cousin’s WW (nurse) left him for an older POS (doctor), no one would have ever known the reason if he had not exposed.....I know for sure I would have never looked up his D filing to see the cause listed.....it was in there, but how many people are actually curious enough to go dig into records for that research?
> 
> OP is smart to have that card to play.....
> 
> Agree to a quick and fair resolution.....fair including recompensating him for all the financial support he gave his WW so she could even earn her degree and license......and her crappy behavior will not be broadcast to everyone she knows.
> 
> And he does deserve to be fully compensated.
> 
> I know a woman (family friend) who had this happen to her.
> 
> She fully supported her WH and the family while he went through medical school.....then he up and left her with their 5 kids as soon as his career started really paying.
> 
> Luckily, she was able to take his sorry a** to the cleaners in the D....but man did he whine and complain about how she was using the courts to steal ‘his’ money.
> 
> POS would have never even had his medical degree and license if it had not been for her support through the years.
> 
> IMO he got everything he deserved due to his crappy behavior and betrayal of the woman who had helped him get there.


I think there's a huge difference in your friends case, where she put her husband through medical school while married, had a full family with him, and then had him bail on her, and the OP who was dating her during residency and married her after she became a doctor. They also do not have kids and have only been married 3.5 years. 

I am interested in knowing how the court rules in this case. It would be nice if I can reach back into my dating history with my husband and ask for the financial support I gave him for 4 years while he was in college getting his engineering degree. We married 6 months after he earned it. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Robert22205

Thanks for checking in with us. I know this is tough but you're not alone. I admire your self control and restraint in the face of repeated provocation. Monday will be stressful for her but it will be equally challenging for you with lots of conflicting emotions. Try to treat Monday's contact as just another business deal (impersonal) and the first step in negotiating a satisfactory exit. You'll have plenty of opportunity to celebrate/react afterward.

When she is served does the paperwork disclose what you are seeking (equal division of property and/or spousal support)? 
To maintain control, I suggest you prepare in advance an outline (or script) of the major points you want to make with her on Monday? 
Don't let her control the conversation, stay on script and avoid the temptation to respond to accusatory and provocative statements or questions.

On the other hand, immediately accepting an emotional knee jerk call or text from her may be a waste of your time. Have you considered not responding the same day? Give her time to imagine what evidence you have .... hopefully loose sleep over being caught and the unknown .... let reality set in and hopefully she'll be more receptive to listening to what you have to say.


----------



## Thor

FloridaGuy123 said:


> she thinks the rules don't apply


I'm glad you recognize this. It is why she would be a very bad risk to attempt R.


----------



## Kamstel

I hope that you can stay busy with enjoyable tasks and loving/supportive friends this weekend.

Hang in there


----------



## OnTheFly

Lila said:


> If it were me, I'd let the chips fall where they may and fight his demands for this very reason.


Lol, maybe we can get FloridaGuy's wife on here and you could give her your advice directly. 

Or am I reading this wrong?


----------



## Lila

OnTheFly said:


> Lol, maybe we can get FloridaGuy's wife on here and you could give her your advice directly.
> 
> Or am I reading this wrong?


You're reading it wrong. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## OutofRetirement

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I believe there is a 40% chance she will deny the infidelity. "we were just friends etc."


99.9% chance she will deny. For the same reasons you mentioned, sure. But mostly all deny. Like 99.9% deny physical initially, 80% deny "emotional," 80% say "we're just friends." That's the unscientific percentages based on off-the-top-of-my-head from reading here way too much. 99.9% denying physical, 80% denying emotional actually is very generous.



FloridaGuy123 said:


> with the pictures, texts and bank records, the period of denial will hopefully be short, as will the time to resolution.


She'll admit to the extent of evidence you provide, maybe a little less even. You've already tasted the blame-shifting, re-writing of history, and if she has been reading the Cheater's Manual, she should lead with denial, followed by that-blaming you and re-writing the marriage. You'll get a full meal of that, not just a taste, this time.

Your lawyer seems sharp, just advise what you want, then keep following the advice.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Complaint was filed Friday and gets served today. 

It hurts. I never wanted to see this day. But as others have pointed out, I'm not the bad guy here. I didn't sleep with someone else. I didn't lie. I didn't blame my partner for every problem. I didn't sit through multiple counseling sessions and make up a story. I didnt...

the list goes on. 

This is about moving on and moving a bad person out of my life. So yeah, it hurts. But it is the beginning of the healing.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Complaint was filed Friday and gets served today. 

It hurts. I never wanted to see this day. But as others have pointed out, I'm not the bad guy here. I didn't sleep with someone else. I didn't lie. I didn't blame my partner for every problem. I didn't sit through multiple counseling sessions and make up a story. I didn't...

the list goes on. 

This is about moving on and moving a bad person out of my life. So yeah, it hurts. But it is the beginning of the healing.


----------



## Kamstel

Good luck today. You know you are doing the right thing.

Stay strong. 

You have taken a huge step in getting out of the hell she has thrown you in!

Please be careful what you say when she blows up your phone. My advice is to ghost her.



Please lean on friends and family members during this tumultuous period.


----------



## Clay2013

This is the first day of the rest of your life. Sure it sucks to end things this way but you said it best. You were the one that was faithful. Your not the one that blew this apart. I would make her pay severely to keep quiet. She would not get off very easy at all. 

Good for you.


----------



## Robert22205

Stay in touch. We're always here. How do you plan to respond when she blows up your phone?


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Kamstel said:


> Good luck today. You know you are doing the right thing.
> 
> Stay strong.
> 
> You have taken a huge step in getting out of the hell she has thrown you in!
> 
> Please be careful what you say when she blows up your phone. My advice is to ghost her.
> 
> 
> 
> Please lean on friends and family members during this tumultuous period.


My lawyer has advised me to say nothing. That's what I'm going to do. I'm playing to win in Court. When I started finding evidence, I gathered and waited; had she come clean, I might have considered reconciliation. Instead she extended the lie in scope and duration, which made the decision for me. 

I've got good people and they're checking in on me. It helps a lot.


----------



## Kamstel

How are you doing?


----------



## Kamstel

Has she been served yet?


Hang in there


----------



## Decorum

Hoping all goes well.


----------



## bandit.45

The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last....


----------



## Kamstel

Thank you Mr. Wonka


----------



## Tron

Aren't we an understanding and patient bunch...


----------



## seadoug105

Delays like this make me nervous because you never know how crazy the WS can get when the Sha-Hit hits the fan. Given how much she has to lose I would assume she would be controlled but you never know.... especially when she read *"Grounds for dissolution of marriage: INFIDELITY!!!!"*


My thoughts and prayers are with you!


----------



## Kamstel

Exactly what SeaDoug said.


We all know FloridaGuy is going through Hell, but we are concerned about his safety and worse case scenarios.

But I think the good news is that he is in a different part of the state right now.


----------



## Decorum




----------



## Dyokemm

Even with a great and well thought out plan of action.....a day like Florida is going through today is going to stir up a sh*tstorm of drama.....

His phone is probably blowing up....not just from his WW, but from friends and family who are hearing from her and reaching out to him in shock as well.

Until the dust starts to settle, he probably has a lot more to deal with than updating his TAM supporters/advisors.

I bet we won’t hear his update til late tonight or even tomorrow.


----------



## farsidejunky

Decorum said:


>


Was that for me?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Decorum

farsidejunky said:


> Was that for me?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


 @farsidejunky

Because you are a Farside-Junky, I get it now! Duh!!

It was just a bit of gallows humor while we are waiting to hear from FloridaGuy123.

Peace!


----------



## Decorum

And I love Farside.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Hi,

She was served yesterday. Her response was a seven-text barrage in which she informed me that 

- she will not be paying any support
- I will be given custody of neither dog

In addition, she expressed _particular outrage_ at the infidelity assertion, denying it with explicit language, before calling me an "a**hole". I shared this text storm with my lawyer. He said this goes two ways: they either come clean or they deny-til-they-die, and my WW is in the second group. I followed my lawyer's advice and said nothing at all. 

It was pretty clear from that mini-explosion that she hasn't been in touch with a lawyer, and also clear that this process will be stressful for her. Good. She slept with another guy. 

The rest of the day was spent in touch with friends and family. I'm not sure how it for other guys, but yesterday was not THAT bad, and the insanity of her response (I will not...) only confirms the correctness of my decision. We've mostly been joking about it

_She's already reached a decision? I thought she was a doctor. She's a judge too?!_

_given her incisive resolution of legal issues, I'm surprised Trump didn't pick her for the Supreme Court_

and so on. 

So it was a stressful day, but the worst stress for me happened a while back. She's got some time to respond to the complaint and the interrogatories, and then I guess we'll do a temporary hearing. 

My mind is where it's always been since I realized the extent of her behavior: win in Court


----------



## stro

She has no idea what you actually know. That must be driving her insane.


----------



## Chaparral

Lying liars and cheating cheaters hate it when they get caught. In the back of her mind she thought she was being so careful no one would know. She will be so much more shocked when you mention his name in passing. Doubt she slept much last night.


----------



## Chaparral

She will pay no support. Shows how her mind has already been conniving against you.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Chaparral said:


> She will pay no support. Shows how her mind has already been conniving against you.


It shows many things

- conniving against me
- a towering sense of entitlement
- general condescension
- odd priorities

And lots more. She's actually unhinged from reality now. _I didn't do anything, I'm not paying anything_. She's reverted to a 10 year old girl. I presume she is not stamping her feet, but maybe she is. 

It also makes her the ideal opponent in litigation: irrational, short term thinker and prone to outbursts.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I look forward to hearing her response to your lawyer's threat to depose her lover. I don't know much about law, but I sure hope this is a possibility!


----------



## Malaise

FloridaGuy123 said:


> It shows many things
> 
> - conniving against me
> - a towering sense of entitlement
> - general condescension
> - odd priorities
> 
> And lots more. She's actually unhinged from reality now. _I didn't do anything, I'm not paying anything_. She's reverted to a 10 year old girl. I presume she is not stamping her feet, but maybe she is.
> 
> *It also makes her the ideal opponent in litigation: irrational, short term thinker and prone to outbursts.*


Pray this lasts .


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear FloridaGuy,

You have done well by following the advice of your attorney. You must stay true to your specified outcome. Focus on the facts and keep a clear head. She will pay alimony (the question is, How Much). You are doing great. (Bravo).

Best 
Dreamer


----------



## FloridaGuy123

stro said:


> She has no idea what you actually know. That must be driving her insane.


I have pictures of them together. 

I have pictures of her, with him, with a friend of hers (see you at deposition, friend!), as well as just the two of them together: holding hands, kissing, snuggling, I have it all. 

I have bank records which place her in his hometown repeatedly, and there is no other reason for her to be there. 

I have texts in which she mentions their past sexual encounters, plans future ones, exchanges a (non-explicit) picture with him and mentions his hometown. 

I have time and date stamped pictures of a suggestive-but-not-explicit nature which she sent to him from a hotel...

and I have the bank statements that place her in the hotel at that time. 

When I discovered this behavior I made a decision: eat the stress, make a plan, take everything. 

And I'm going to.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Malaise said:


> Pray this lasts .


It's structural, and her stress in only going to go up.


----------



## Kamstel

Thanks for the update. I always get worried for people on the day the people get served because you never know what they are going to do when they realize that their fantasyland has been open for he world to see.

I think it is a great idea to continue to ghost her. Let your lawyer handle everything. That is what they are paid very well to do. Besides, ghosting her will help YOU!

Stick close to family and friends. Lean on them. That is what they are there for, and they want to be there for you 


I’m sorry and Congratulations on taking this big step. I know you didn’t want to do this, but you knew you had to do it.

Hang in there!


----------



## Kamstel

Is the “friend” married?

If so, when are you going to tell his wife? Might I suggest the day or two before he gets the subpoena?


----------



## Kamstel

I hope she is smart enough not to see patients today. I’m sure she is not in the right state of mind.


----------



## BluesPower

FloridaGuy123 said:


> It shows many things
> 
> - conniving against me
> - a towering sense of entitlement
> - general condescension
> - odd priorities
> 
> And lots more. She's actually unhinged from reality now. _I didn't do anything, I'm not paying anything_. She's reverted to a 10 year old girl. I presume she is not stamping her feet, but maybe she is.
> 
> It also makes her the ideal opponent in litigation: irrational, short term thinker and prone to outbursts.


The thing is this: You have not seen anything yet. Nothing. You think she is pissed now? 

Wait until she sees a lawyer and he talks to yours and finds out all of the evidence that you have.

Her head will explode...


----------



## Robert22205

Wow...it's a good thing you did your research, planned and were prepared for this. I'm glad you got out of town and took your personal property and your share of cash etc. 

I bet she and the shoe salesman didn't sleep well last night. She's up to her neck in alligators and being in denial isn't going to help her.
I'm sure she's constantly checking her phone for a response from you. 

One thought....she has much to loose by going to court and lying. If she's caught lying in court she could loose her license to practice medicine. If the boyfriend lies in court for her he could be charged with perjury. Something for them to worry/think about.

What's the next step procedurally? Do you wait for her lawyer to contact your lawyer?
When do you reveal your evidence?

Know you're not alone. Check in whenever you can.


----------



## Yeswecan

Stay the course sir! Stay the course! Well done!


----------



## FloridaGuy123

BluesPower said:


> The thing is this: You have not seen anything yet. Nothing. You think she is pissed now?
> 
> Wait until she sees a lawyer and he talks to yours and finds out all of the evidence that you have.
> 
> Her head will explode...


I believe she does not fully grasp what happens now. I believe she thinks this will just go away because she has decreed it as such. But instead:

- she hires a lawyer. That cost me $7k-ish to get started
- she responds to the complaint and interrogatories
- we have a temporary hearing. At this hearing...

I may be awarded interim / provisional support (her income: $40k per month, my income $~2k per month) and my attorney has requested she pay his fees. That's also likely; what is the role of the Court but to keep lawyers employed, after all?

There's a decent chance that she'll be spending $5-10k per month funding my monthly expenses while she funds both sides of the suit. 

THEN the litigation starts. 

I didn't ask for this.


----------



## Kamstel

You can hold your head up straight and when people ask you what happened, tell them the truth


----------



## Taxman

Right now, she has no idea what you have on her. That is why you are getting the defiance and irrationality. An hour spent with her lawyer with a review of the evidence you are going to present at trial, and you will get a really humbled response. You will also get, "Why did you have me followed?" "Were you setting me up?" and the one that never fails to make my day, "It was nothing! You don't understand! Nothing happened!" Yeah, and monkeys are going to fly out of my butt too!

FloridaGuy, you are handling this like a pro. I predict that you are going to see the ugliest woman in the world. I find that women who are in the middle of an affair, and are in the entitled stage will unleash the worlds worst invective. Then when they are defeated they grumble and growl. You are going to take her. Take her for a lot, and let her whimper. Take her for a lot, and take her for a long time. When you are ready and everything is engraved in stone, then you destroy her world and the AP's world. That is justice.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Taxman said:


> Right now, she has no idea what you have on her. That is why you are getting the defiance and irrationality. An hour spent with her lawyer with a review of the evidence you are going to present at trial, and you will get a really humbled response. You will also get, "Why did you have me followed?" "Were you setting me up?" and the one that never fails to make my day, "It was nothing! You don't understand! Nothing happened!" Yeah, and monkeys are going to fly out of my butt too!
> 
> FloridaGuy, you are handling this like a pro. I predict that you are going to see the ugliest woman in the world. I find that women who are in the middle of an affair, and are in the entitled stage will unleash the worlds worst invective. Then when they are defeated they grumble and growl. You are going to take her. Take her for a lot, and let her whimper. Take her for a lot, and take her for a long time. When you are ready and everything is engraved in stone, then you destroy her world and the AP's world. That is justice.


A good friend of mine is a detective in NYC. He says once you start revealing evidence to a criminal, they start clinging to any sense of a lifeline that leads to their innocence or justifies their action, no matter how irrational it may be. He tells me to expect similar things here. 

As our marriage has unraveled, my wife has portrayed herself as the victim. "I'm in such a bad place" or "I'm in a downward spiral and don't know how to stop it". It's always been about her. I am confident she had a strategy that ended at an amicable, agreeable divorce in which I just walk away for a small sum of money (and she goes on with her life). 

I watched her move the pieces around for that strategy and then I implemented my strategy. Her outrage at my initial bank withdrawal confirmed my thoughts and her further outrage at being served for infidelity proved me right. 

Of note, her posting on social media has ramped way up. She blocked me (lol) but in her rush to conceal her misdeeds, she forgot to block my sister, who has been feeding me everything. In all her posts, she is the victim.


----------



## personofinterest

You are my hero. If I ever need to revisit a plan I once had, I will definitely be coming to you lol


----------



## Yeswecan

FloridaGuy123 said:


> A good friend of mine is a detective in NYC. He says once you start revealing evidence to a criminal, they start clinging to any sense of a lifeline that leads to their innocence or justifies their action, no matter how irrational it may be. He tells me to expect similar things here.
> 
> As our marriage has unraveled, my wife has portrayed herself as the victim. "I'm in such a bad place" or "I'm in a downward spiral and don't know how to stop it". It's always been about her. I am confident she had a strategy that ended at an amicable, agreeable divorce in which I just walk away for a small sum of money (and she goes on with her life).
> 
> I watched her move the pieces around for that strategy and then I implemented my strategy. Her outrage at my initial bank withdrawal confirmed my thoughts and her further outrage at being served for infidelity proved me right.
> 
> Of note, her posting on social media has ramped way up. She blocked me (lol) but in her rush to conceal her misdeeds, she forgot to block my sister, who has been feeding me everything. In all her posts, she is the victim.


The re-write of marital history commences. Straight from the Cheaters Handbook of the Recently Caught.


----------



## AKA Broken Arrow

FloridaGuy123 said:


> _She's already reached a decision? I thought she was a doctor. She's a judge too?!_
> 
> _given her incisive resolution of legal issues, I'm surprised Trump didn't pick her for the Supreme Court_


Oh man, I only wish you could have texted these 2 gems to her. I would love to see her head explode. In due time I guess.

Sorry you're going through this but you certainly have your head on straight. She's a fool. Hang in there.

It also goes to show that all the education in the world can't change a persons character.


----------



## Chaparral

Cheaters love to trickle truth their betrayed spouses. Wouldn’t be great of slowly trickle truth the cheater as to how much a betrayed spouse knows? In this case she still thinks she can play the victim although she has been accused of adultery. Dropping one small fact after another would be like tightening the screws. 

Didn’t you say he was divorced? Does he have kids?


----------



## Yeswecan

AKA Broken Arrow said:


> It also goes to show that all the education in the world can't change a persons character.


There are two things in this world they can't take. Your good name and education. OP stbxw just lost the first one.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Chaparral said:


> *Cheaters love to trickle truth their betrayed spouses*. Wouldn’t be great of slowly trickle truth the cheater as to how much a betrayed spouse knows? In this case she still thinks she can play the victim although she has been accused of adultery. Dropping one small fact after another would be like tightening the screws.
> 
> Didn’t you say he was divorced? Does he have kids?


It's funny you say this. She has at times hinted at things that are exactly this:

"I really like the <insert cheaters neighborhood> area of <nearby major city>.

or 

"I still shop at <XYZ store> sometimes whenever I am in <city where he lives>.

Out of context, these are ordinary comments that might not even be spoken. In context, they are hints at the truth. I listened, and I thought of the pictures I have and the other evidence, and I thought "After you lie to me, your family and your friends, I am going to prove infidelity in Court."

Won't that be nice?

I could trickle out the facts, but I think when the list of people to be deposed comes out, it'll have a greater impact. it's equally likely she will lie to her attorney.


----------



## bandit.45

Does your sister know about her infidelity?


----------



## Taxman

Believe me when I say that at some point very shortly, there will be a request for a meeting between the two of you and your lawyers. She will make a large settlement offer and the reason will be given that she just wants to speed the process. You will find in this process an agreement where you change the divorce to no fault so that her misdeeds are not given the light of day. I have been on both sides of this. In one instance, he promised that her affair would not see the light of day. That he would not say a word about his wife and her AP. His wife desperately wanted to maintain her image. Her image was important to her business, and an affair would definitely be career limiting. So he agreed, he would say no more about her affair. What she did not know is that he made a deal with the AP's BW. Once the divorce was final, and his EXWW thought she was safe, suddenly the AP's WW is spouting on social media, FB, and every other medium she could use was full of pictures of the WW and AP. There was incontroverible truth being published and my client's ex was like the little dutch boy for every leak she closed, two more opened. At the end of the day, her bad deeds were made public, and it truly did hurt her business. In the end, she had given away a sizeable amount of money for her husband's silence, but forgot to plug leaks elsewhere.


----------



## colingrant

After reading post after post after post, of BH's flailing, wondering, enabling and begging ............. thank you.


----------



## musicftw07

Read this entire thread. I think you're doing great, Florida. I've been where you are, and it sucks big time. My heart goes out to you. But you're handling everything like a boss, so for that you have every right to be proud of yourself.

Keep posting. Your emotions will be all over the place, and we're here to help you navigate your way through it.


----------



## Taxman

FG,I reiterate that you are doing this well. Please bear in mind that when she was in training, you were the one holding it all together. Earning so that she could become. Now that she has become, she thinks she can ****-can you, and make another selection. I am watching a relative recover from a sim8lar situation. She basically put him thru med school, residency, fellowship, and finally he went into his mentor’s practice. Within a short time she discovered the mistress. Then the mistress became public knowledge, and he and his family set about to convince her to walk away with nothing. Yours truly, her mom and dad and several others flew to her aid. I had a brief meeting with her ex, and described the world according to me. He **** his pants. I said that my opening volley was 75% of his gross, ($500k), term til their youngest turns 18. Full yearly audit of his income and his practice at his expense. Child support to the maximum, and he pays her tuition so that she could finish her teaching certificate. This was way above what the judicial system would award her, but the publicity would destroy his medical practice ( not many women would want a cheater touching them as their gynaecologist. We negotiated down, but not by much. He is on the hook. Mistress/new wife will have to work (nurse), as the income she originally thought was coming her way shall be reduced severely til the youngest child turns 18. I know he wants no more kids, and he will have to wait til his fifties before seeing all of his income. He even threatened to quit working. That would be too bad, as I would seek to continue the spousal support even if he sits at home like a deadbeat.


----------



## skerzoid

Revenge is a dish best served cold..... Klingon Proverb ...............................................................................................................................................................................


----------



## skerzoid

Double Post


----------



## Cletus

skerzoid said:


> Revenge is a dish best served cold..... Klingon Proverb ...............................................................................................................................................................................https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vwHLMs04XA


"You haven't heard Shakespeare until you've heard it in the original Klingon"

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

Taxman said:


> In one instance, he promised that her affair would not see the light of day. That he would not say a word about his wife and her AP. His wife desperately wanted to maintain her image. Her image was important to her business, and an affair would definitely be career limiting. So he agreed, he would say no more about her affair. What she did not know is that he made a deal with the AP's BW. Once the divorce was final, and his EXWW thought she was safe, suddenly the AP's WW is spouting on social media, FB, and every other medium she could use was full of pictures of the WW and AP. There was incontroverible truth being published and my client's ex was like the little dutch boy for every leak she closed, two more opened. At the end of the day, her bad deeds were made public, and it truly did hurt her business. In the end, she had given away a sizeable amount of money for her husband's silence, but forgot to plug leaks elsewhere.


How much of a cut did the OMW get under the table from the BH's settlement for her help?


----------



## Robert22205

Please keep us updated with daily developments so as to provide a step by step guide for others that find themselves in a similar situation.
Your experience is painful but it's also a valuable resource for the next victim of adultery. 

How exactly does she portray herself as a victim (e.g., on facebook)? Can you summarize? What important points does she omit? I suspect it conforms to a generic cheater response.


----------



## Goose54

FloridaGuy, if you are able to say on here: is your lawyer planning on calling in POSOM as a witness? 

If so, I think that will be the explosion I will hear in the NW part of the state.


----------



## Decorum

In keeping with the Star Trek meme.

Women like this are driven by their needs and desires, which we mistake for love. 

They seem sooo into us.

But really like Creature -M113, when we let our guard down, and given a chance they will suck the life essence out of us and leave us for dead.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

FloridaGuy123 said:


> A good friend of mine is a detective in NYC. He says once you start revealing evidence to a criminal, they start clinging to any sense of a lifeline that leads to their innocence or justifies their action, no matter how irrational it may be. He tells me to expect similar things here.
> 
> As our marriage has unraveled, my wife has portrayed herself as the victim. "I'm in such a bad place" or "I'm in a downward spiral and don't know how to stop it". It's always been about her. I am confident she had a strategy that ended at an amicable, agreeable divorce in which I just walk away for a small sum of money (and she goes on with her life).
> 
> I watched her move the pieces around for that strategy and then I implemented my strategy. Her outrage at my initial bank withdrawal confirmed my thoughts and her further outrage at being served for infidelity proved me right.
> 
> *Of note, her posting on social media has ramped way up. She blocked me (lol) but in her rush to conceal her misdeeds, she forgot to block my sister, who has been feeding me everything. In all her posts, she is the victim.*


Keep all those FB posts your sis is feeding you and stay very very quiet. When the dusts settle from the divorcee and you are free and clear consider posting all of them on FB with a running commentary alongside of all the evidence you have so far. All the evidence. Let her feel that sting.


----------



## Edmund

FloridaGuy123 said:


> A good friend of mine is a detective in NYC. He says once you start revealing evidence to a criminal, they start clinging to any sense of a lifeline that leads to their innocence or justifies their action, no matter how irrational it may be. He tells me to expect similar things here.



This reminds me of the old TV series Colombo starring Peter Falk.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

My wife texted me, which I find bizarre because you'd think her lawyer would tell her not to. Not sharing all of the text, but my wife said that she _"didn't cheat on me, well, not physically at least."_

I've surmised that this is her pre-emptive response to realizing I've seen the bank statements that show her spending time in <the other city>. _"Yeah, but we didn't DO anything"._ It's hilarious because I don't know a straight man on Earth who would be interested in spending the day just talking with some other guy's wife. 

My lawyer filed a motion for a temporary hearing and attached, as exhibits, explicit evidence of the affair, or as he calls it, proof of the affair. That should be a fun day, the day she realizes that I have everything.

She also told me she is going to throw out my stuff if I don't come get it this week. (she's already locked me out of the house and changed the locks). Obviously she lacks the legal grounds to do either of these. I grabbed everything sentimental already. 

I have about $15k worth of clothes in there. So if she does throw it out, that's added to the complaint. It's also the perfect response to 

"why don't you have a job?"

_because you threw out all my clothes and I can't go on interviews._

Her insane control freak nature is really coming to the front of her being now


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Boy, she better get a dose of smart really fast, for her own sake. 

Document everything, photograph the texts, and share with your attorney. Require her to provide you with the new house key and alarm code immediately, at her own expense, even if you never intend on going to the house. Have the attorney inform her that any destruction of your property will require compensation from her, as well as legal punitive damages.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

FloridaGuy123 said:


> My wife texted me, which I find bizarre because you'd think her lawyer would tell her not to. Not sharing all of the text, but my wife said that she _"*didn't cheat on me, well, not physically at least*."_
> 
> I've surmised that this is her pre-emptive response to realizing I've seen the bank statements that show her spending time in <the other city>. _"Yeah, but we didn't DO anything"._ It's hilarious because I don't know a straight man on Earth who would be interested in spending the day just talking with some other guy's wife.
> 
> My lawyer filed a motion for a temporary hearing and attached, as exhibits, explicit evidence of the affair, or as he calls it, proof of the affair. That should be a fun day, the day she realizes that I have everything.
> 
> She also told me she is going to throw out my stuff if I don't come get it this week. (she's already locked me out of the house and changed the locks). Obviously she lacks the legal grounds to do either of these. I grabbed everything sentimental already.
> 
> I have about $15k worth of clothes in there. So if she does throw it out, that's added to the complaint. It's also the perfect response to
> 
> "why don't you have a job?"
> 
> because you threw out all my clothes and I can't go on interviews.
> 
> Her insane control freak nature is really coming to the front of her being now


Even when I had the proof in pure text form about the plans they (EW and OM) had to meet up for sex, even if it was just oral, whatever .... even when I had the proof in hand, she still denied it and said she wasn't cheating because it wasn't physical and those were only words they said to each other. Even though you think they wouldn't even bother trying to lie anymore when it's all unraveled and out in the open anyway, they will still surprise you with the extent to which they will lie. My EW swore to GOD even when lying, which is the lowest of the low in my book because we 'are' lifelong and involved people in the church.


----------



## Robert22205

I bet her father said the same lies to her mother. Strategically it's wise not to respond to anything she says. And it also sends a strong personal message that you have ejected her from your life and no longer respect her enough to even acknowledge receipt of a text. If she gets angry and feels disrespected (even better). 

Let her stew in her own twisted angry and entitled head. Hopefully she'll start redirecting her frustration toward the OM. 

Was there any discussion with your attorney about offering her and the OM an opportunity to take a lie detector test? 

Or maybe a friend will suggest on her FB to just take a lie detector test and prove she is telling the truth. She could post the result on FB. 

Thank you for checking in. Know you're not alone.


----------



## Yeswecan

FloridaGuy123 said:


> My wife texted me, which I find bizarre because you'd think her lawyer would tell her not to. Not sharing all of the text, but my wife said that she _"didn't cheat on me, well, not physically at least."_
> 
> I've surmised that this is her pre-emptive response to realizing I've seen the bank statements that show her spending time in <the other city>. _"Yeah, but we didn't DO anything"._ It's hilarious because I don't know a straight man on Earth who would be interested in spending the day just talking with some other guy's wife.
> 
> My lawyer filed a motion for a temporary hearing and attached, as exhibits, explicit evidence of the affair, or as he calls it, proof of the affair. That should be a fun day, the day she realizes that I have everything.
> 
> She also told me she is going to throw out my stuff if I don't come get it this week. (she's already locked me out of the house and changed the locks). Obviously she lacks the legal grounds to do either of these. I grabbed everything sentimental already.
> 
> I have about $15k worth of clothes in there. So if she does throw it out, that's added to the complaint. It's also the perfect response to
> 
> "why don't you have a job?"
> 
> _because you threw out all my clothes and I can't go on interviews._
> 
> Her insane control freak nature is really coming to the front of her being now


Out comes the crazy. Your stbxw is going to get crazier. If you by chance are found in the same room as your stbxw please assure you have a VAR on your person. Don't need to add any made up stories of you getting physical with your stbxw.

Stay cool. Stay the course. 

We are here for you, man!


----------



## Taxman

When she is figuratively slapped with the evidence gathered by the PI, I can guarantee a meltdown. That is where entitlement meets actuality. I have been in a discovery and the WW was absolutely convinced that there was no way ANYONE would come to the conclusion that she had sex with a coworker. She did not appreciate the investigative tools employed by investigators. Apparently, a long lens from across the street can see into hotel rooms. High density high resolution cameras can see into rooms with the same clarity as if they were in the room. Shoulder tattoos are a fairly good technique for identifying persons. She got to the second minute of the video being played in my boardroom. I am not sure which of her threats I found more entertaining, the invasion of privacy threat, the threat that everyone had seen her naked in the video, and she wanted us jailed for "mental rape" (still don't know what she meant, plus she was nothing to write home about), the harrassment threat, all of which were really silenced when my client rose, faced his STBXW and said, "Everything that you just said just confirms to me that you are nothing but an entitled *****." "I have you now. You are going to pay for this." She defiantly says "I am a woman, the courts side with the woman." So I rise and give her the lay of the land. "We are going for custody, you will be paying child support, you make and have made more than him the entire marriage which is in excess of ten years so guess who is going to be paying alimony" Her eyes got wide at that point. "How?" "Miss one payment and I will garnishee your a$$". She looks at her STBX. "I love you, you couldn't do this to me??" His answer caused her to dissolve into a puddle, "You did not give a hot **** about me or the marriage when you were banging your "bestie", so I guess that I don't give half a **** about you." She is mortified that she was exposed. She never expected it, and she is now dealing with the detrius. Her life as she knew it was over. Two years later, and she is paying. She is no longer entitled or defiant, as that behavior landed her in the ****house.


----------



## musicftw07

Taxman said:


> When she is figuratively slapped with the evidence gathered by the PI, I can guarantee a meltdown. That is where entitlement meets actuality. I have been in a discovery and the WW was absolutely convinced that there was no way ANYONE would come to the conclusion that she had sex with a coworker. She did not appreciate the investigative tools employed by investigators. Apparently, a long lens from across the street can see into hotel rooms. High density high resolution cameras can see into rooms with the same clarity as if they were in the room. Shoulder tattoos are a fairly good technique for identifying persons. She got to the second minute of the video being played in my boardroom. I am not sure which of her threats I found more entertaining, the invasion of privacy threat, the threat that everyone had seen her naked in the video, and she wanted us jailed for "mental rape" (still don't know what she meant, plus she was nothing to write home about), the harrassment threat, all of which were really silenced when my client rose, faced his STBXW and said, "Everything that you just said just confirms to me that you are nothing but an entitled *****." "I have you now. You are going to pay for this." She defiantly says "I am a woman, the courts side with the woman." So I rise and give her the lay of the land. "We are going for custody, you will be paying child support, you make and have made more than him the entire marriage which is in excess of ten years so guess who is going to be paying alimony" Her eyes got wide at that point. "How?" "Miss one payment and I will garnishee your a$$". She looks at her STBX. "I love you, you couldn't do this to me??" His answer caused her to dissolve into a puddle, "You did not give a hot **** about me or the marriage when you were banging your "bestie", so I guess that I don't give half a **** about you." She is mortified that she was exposed. She never expected it, and she is now dealing with the detrius. Her life as she knew it was over. Two years later, and she is paying. She is no longer entitled or defiant, as that behavior landed her in the ****house.


I am going to erect a shrine to you in my back yard.


----------



## AKA Broken Arrow

It sounds like she's fishing for info to see how much you actually know. She'll find out soon enough...


----------



## bandit.45

Don't answer the message. Let your lawyer answer her.


----------



## lucy999

Buckle up. ****'s about to get INSANELY crazy. You ain't seen nothing yet. 

Talk to your lawyer ASAP RE: how to get your clothes out of there. Let him respond to your STBX. You stay stone silent.
@Taxman your stories warm the cockles of my black bitter heart. If you wrote a book of your stories, I'd ask for an autographed copy.


----------



## GusPolinski

lucy999 said:


> Buckle up. ****'s about to get INSANELY crazy. You ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> Talk to your lawyer ASAP RE: how to get your clothes out of there. Let him respond to your STBX. You stay stone silent.
> 
> *Taxman your stories warm the cockles of my black bitter heart. If you wrote a book of your stories, I'd ask for an autographed copy.*


Right?!?

I don’t even care if they’re true or not.


----------



## badmemory

Taxman said:


> When she is figuratively slapped with the evidence gathered by the PI, I can guarantee a meltdown. That is where entitlement meets actuality. I have been in a discovery and the WW was absolutely convinced that there was no way ANYONE would come to the conclusion that she had sex with a coworker. She did not appreciate the investigative tools employed by investigators. Apparently, a long lens from across the street can see into hotel rooms. High density high resolution cameras can see into rooms with the same clarity as if they were in the room. Shoulder tattoos are a fairly good technique for identifying persons. She got to the second minute of the video being played in my boardroom. I am not sure which of her threats I found more entertaining, the invasion of privacy threat, the threat that everyone had seen her naked in the video, and she wanted us jailed for "mental rape" (still don't know what she meant, plus she was nothing to write home about), the harrassment threat, all of which were really silenced when my client rose, faced his STBXW and said, "Everything that you just said just confirms to me that you are nothing but an entitled wh0re." "I have you now. You are going to pay for this." She defiantly says "I am a woman, the courts side with the woman." So I rise and give her the lay of the land. "We are going for custody, you will be paying child support, you make and have made more than him the entire marriage which is in excess of ten years so guess who is going to be paying alimony" Her eyes got wide at that point. "How?" "Miss one payment and I will garnishee your a$$". She looks at her STBX. "I love you, you couldn't do this to me??" His answer caused her to dissolve into a puddle, "You did not give a hot fuçk about me or the marriage when you were banging your "bestie", so I guess that I don't give half a shït about you." She is mortified that she was exposed. She never expected it, and she is now dealing with the detrius. Her life as she knew it was over. Two years later, and she is paying. She is no longer entitled or defiant, as that behavior landed her in the shïthouse.


Good stuff. Keepum coming Taxman.:smile2:


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## Taxman

It never fails to impress me. When entitlement meets sketchy behavior, the resulting stream of illogic and patent lies is enough to make your head spin. I simply cannot wait for the evidence to be presented in discovery. I have seen a guy who was absolutely convinced nothing could be traced to him, there was no way anyone was going to get anything on him. He literally laughed in my face...RIGHT BEFORE WE WENT INTO THE DISCOVERY MEETING. I whispered to my client's attorney, and asked that the most damning piece of evidence be shown to the defendant. To be frank, the **** smell in the room got too much for me. It appeared when the vid was shown, (our PI secreted a miniature camera in the bastard's private office...he paid one of the cleaning crew to let him in), our boy had an issue with rectal competence. The smell could knock a buzzard off a ****wagon. My client, the wife, actually remarked that she did not realize how much his ass sagged until she saw it from the angle our camera captured. She was also having difficulty, and we had to adjourn the meeting so he could go home and change.


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## Tatsuhiko

Taxman said:


> To be frank, the shît smell in the room got too much for me.


Wow. I didn't realize that people could literally **** their pants in a situation like this. I wish I had been sitting by your side to smell it. In some vindictive way, I would have enjoyed it.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

FloridaGuy123 said:


> My wife texted me, which I find bizarre because you'd think her lawyer would tell her not to. Not sharing all of the text, but my wife said that she _"didn't cheat on me, well, not physically at least."_
> 
> I've surmised that this is her pre-emptive response to realizing I've seen the bank statements that show her spending time in <the other city>. _"Yeah, but we didn't DO anything"._ It's hilarious because I don't know a straight man on Earth who would be interested in spending the day just talking with some other guy's wife.
> 
> My lawyer filed a motion for a temporary hearing and attached, as exhibits, explicit evidence of the affair, or as he calls it, proof of the affair. That should be a fun day, the day she realizes that I have everything.
> 
> She also told me she is going to throw out my stuff if I don't come get it this week. (she's already locked me out of the house and changed the locks). Obviously she lacks the legal grounds to do either of these. I grabbed everything sentimental already.
> 
> *I have about $15k worth of clothes in there. So if she does throw it out, that's added to the complaint. * It's also the perfect response to
> 
> "why don't you have a job?"
> 
> _because you threw out all my clothes and I can't go on interviews._
> 
> Her insane control freak nature is really coming to the front of her being now


Consider asking for an emergency order where you go with a marshal, sheriff, police or however it works in your jurisdiction to go get your stuff. I am saying this because although you may have paid 15K for all that stuff the judge may factor depreciation etc and only award say 5k. Never covers the amount of hassle to get it all back. Plus reminds her that she may think she can do whatever she wants and apply whatever spin but reality is otherwise. 

Oh, and demand the dogs now. Who was watching them during her trysts? Point that out. Bad doggie momma.


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## kgcolonel

Whatever you do, do not go there alone. Take a good friend with you and have a VAR on you. Things are about to get really testy and you will want documentation that you’re there for one purpose, to get your stuff.


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## Decorum

Taxman said:


> When she is figuratively slapped with the evidence gathered by the PI, I can guarantee a meltdown. That is where entitlement meets actuality. I have been in a discovery and the WW was absolutely convinced that there was no way ANYONE would come to the conclusion that she had sex with a coworker. She did not appreciate the investigative tools employed by investigators. Apparently, a long lens from across the street can see into hotel rooms. High density high resolution cameras can see into rooms with the same clarity as if they were in the room. Shoulder tattoos are a fairly good technique for identifying persons. She got to the second minute of the video being played in my boardroom. I am not sure which of her threats I found more entertaining, the invasion of privacy threat, the threat that everyone had seen her naked in the video, and she wanted us jailed for "mental rape" (still don't know what she meant, plus she was nothing to write home about), the harrassment threat, all of which were really silenced when my client rose, faced his STBXW and said, "Everything that you just said just confirms to me that you are nothing but an entitled wh0re." "I have you now. You are going to pay for this." She defiantly says "I am a woman, the courts side with the woman." So I rise and give her the lay of the land. "We are going for custody, you will be paying child support, you make and have made more than him the entire marriage which is in excess of ten years so guess who is going to be paying alimony" Her eyes got wide at that point. "How?" "Miss one payment and I will garnishee your a$$". She looks at her STBX. "I love you, you couldn't do this to me??" His answer caused her to dissolve into a puddle, "You did not give a hot **** about me or the marriage when you were banging your "bestie", so I guess that I don't give half a **** about you." She is mortified that she was exposed. She never expected it, and she is now dealing with the detrius. Her life as she knew it was over. Two years later, and she is paying. She is no longer entitled or defiant, as that behavior landed her in the ****house.


Everytime I see your name on a post, I feel like running to make popcorn. Thanks for posting!


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## Decorum

Panic mode../on


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## Decorum

FloridaGuy123 said:


> My wife texted me,...
> 
> _"didn't cheat on me, well, not physically at least."_
> 
> 
> 
> She also told me she is going to throw out my stuff if I don't come get it this week.


She is driving herself crazy trying to figure out what you know.

She would love a face to face to pacify her mind, or at least a text/call response to open a dialogue. 

It's her attempt at "HUMINT" gathering.

You know better.  :bsflag:


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## Taxman

GusPolinski said:


> Right?!?
> 
> I don’t even care if they’re true or not.


The unfortunate thing is that these are true. I got sucked into this two firms ago when I was an articling student. One of the partners in my firm was in the middle of a scorching divorce. It of course stemmed from his infidelity with a former employee. I got the crash course in helping with defense, learning where money goes, agreements between business partners to safeguard assets against a spousal onslaught. Once learned, I was promoted by another firm as being a specialist (at the time I was nothing of the sort, white knuckled a lot of it, and leaned heavily on the attorneys for advice and direction). Since I am now a partner in my own firm, I have attracted some clients by word of mouth, but I am also associated with a group that removes the overwhelming legal fees from the equation. We do a collaborative divorce and instead of discovery after discovery, and deposition after deposition, there is a negotiated settlement. I do a ton of legal support for those that choose to go the route of the superior court, but I recommend that route not be followed.

I change a lot of the detail when I post here. I prefer to keep my nuts where they are at present. I note that several stories here are quite familiar, and sometime I cannot help but wonder if a client or two have not posted. I suspect a lot, but would never mention it.


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## Rubix Cubed

@Taxman ,
As I've said before, your stories are quite entertaining and educational at the same time. Keep "em coming.
@FloridaGuy123 ,
Your quickly attaining hero status as well. Way to handle it like a BOSS. Keep it up, I have no doubt you will.


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## FloridaGuy123

Just a quick update, as little has changed. We have a temporary hearing scheduled in a few weeks to figure out short term support stuff and other arrangements. My lawyer has been on top of things, but if anyone has experience with this, I'm all ears.

My wife continues to behave in a manner displaying low moral character. For example, she's cut me off financially. I was ready for that, but with a $40k monthly income, it looks pretty bad, especially when she is spending the money taking friends on trips. (I have proof of all this via frequent flier accounts and bank statements. I do my homework.)

She's also locked me out of the house and changed the locks (you can't do that, silly woman) and lied to me about the date the lease ended, claiming I couldn't come back in. Then she said my stuff was boxed up and she moved it out of the house. So I have no idea where my stuff is. Obviously none of is this legal, and I've documented every text, financial transaction and so on. I have a copy of the lease and confirmed with the landlord that it is still in effect and my wife did not try to change it.

I've arranged to return to <hometown> next week and go get my stuff. My wife will be out of town, and I've asked a local cop friend to accompany me. He has agreed - this is a defense against _you took my such-and-such_ that I expect to see from my wife. 

My attorney has requested temporary support and attorney's fees from her. Along with the motion, he attached exhibits which prove the infidelity. He said he put it out there to preclude my wife from coming up with a story. She's already tried to say that the infidelity was not physical, so funny, but that's because she doesn't know what I have. As such, she thinks she has a handle on that issue. hahahaha

We will likely amend the motion with proof of her recent behavior. I'm generally curious what she will do next. A review of her bank records do not show a retainer paid to a lawyer yet. So I expect the unexpected.


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## bandit.45

She doesn't get the idea of community property. Most entitled a**holes like her don't. Technically you own half of everything acquired after the marriage, if you live in a community property state. Doesn't matter who bought it. You own half of every piece of clothing she wears, half of every piece of furniture, half equity of the house, and the cars. 

Technically you could go to your house with a locksmith and a cop present and pick the locks and enter the house legally and there is not a damn thing she can do to stop it. The cop woulkd probably advise you not to however, because he doesn't want the hassle. 

Put a value on everything she threw away or took from you. She can't arbitrarily do that. 

Then again, everything she told you might just be a bunch of smack to get your goad.


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## Robert22205

Thanks for checking in. You have a sound plan ... stick to your plan (and especially avoid contact with her or the OM). I'm not a shrink so all I can say is that she sounds 'off' and therefore capable of anything (including accusing you of theft or assault). The cop escort was a smart move. Remember you're not alone.


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## Shoyoself

Great work so far. Sounds like there isn’t any hesitation on your part, and that’s the way to go here.
Sending good thoughts your way as you navigate the ****show that is infidelity.


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## Thor

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I've arranged to return to <hometown> next week and go get my stuff. My wife will be out of town, and I've asked a local cop friend to accompany me. He has agreed - this is a defense against _you took my such-and-such_ that I expect to see from my wife. .


Wear a video recorder, something along the lines of a GoPro. There are a lot of cheap ones out there. Record when you go to the house to retrieve your stuff. This further documents you didn't take something of hers or damage anything. Make sure your cop friend knows you'll be recording, and then both of you be sure to not say anything you don't want heard in court.


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## Sports Fan

Florida guy well done. You have handled this like a pro. There was another poster on here i think by the name of Frazier, that should read and take note of this.


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## farsidejunky

Checking up on you, brother. 

I hope everything is going as well as can be expected. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Taxman

Good move having a police officer accompany you to your former home. Please video your removal of items from the home, and have your police officer buddy sign a statement that the video is true and correct in all manners. This can be submitted as evidence if she accuses you of removing contentious items. If she sticks to the script, the entitlement will follow her into the first discovery hearing. This is where the rubber will meet the road. Prepare for a 180° pivot on her part. When the evidence of infidelity is presented, and I am assuming that evidence is incontrovertible, she will jump onto either a different defense strategy, or she will freak, and realize that she has just **** where she eats, and stands to lose a lot. Former relative got his ass handed to him in discoveries. His eX, my relative, used a recommended PI, discovery is just that, a first reveal. He was making snarky comments that he was being framed, he had done nothing, and she was a psycho ***** that was making his life misery, so he had to divorce her. The establishing shot on the video of the motel they used frequently caused him to stutter. His Maserati pulling into the parking lot of that less than savory motel was telling. Him and his GF exiting the car, and walking to a room was making him shake. The idiot did not quite close the blinds in the room. Had some really near porn quality shots. Her attorney's first question, "Do you deny that is you and ZZZ in the parking lot, and in the room at the notell motel?" He had absolutely no idea he had been followed, and had been caught. He stammered something about his rights to privacy. Looked daggers at his lawyer, and at me and his STBX, and hissed, "OK, you got me, what is this going to cost?" I gave him my best toothy smile, and said, "BIG TIME". She got alimony for the next ten years. Child support beyond the age of 18 extending into their first undergrad degree. Full tuition for her undergrad and first grad degree. (She supported him through his education and training and got an affair in return). Figure for the next ten, he is going to pay through the nose. The new wife is already knocked up, and I expect her to seek me out within half a decade.


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## Beach123

Don't assume she has no attorney...a family member may have paid her retainer fee.

And know that she likely has installed cameras in the house that track you moves and are voice activated...she may call the police while you're there so be ready to show proof that it's your home too!

Those are just off the top of my head - the things I can think of.

Maybe grab tax returns while you're there and any bank statements hanging around.

Also...after you enter you could have a locksmith change the locks again! Hehe

That way you now have a key to get in again... maybe hide a key and make her search to find it in the bushes.


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## frustratedinphx

Sorry you’re going through this. Most of this thread is about money or revenge. Did you love her? Do you want to know why she cheated? How long was/is the affair? How was your marriage till it started?

You’re got hard evidence, but exposing her may not give you what you want. FL is no-fault (if that’s where you are). Unless she spent “joint” funds to lavish on the OM, you‘ll split everything in half & move on. The more dramatic your exit, the worse you’ll both be. Attorneys want your money. Period. Multiple friends admitted they spent ~$50K+/- to divorce before working with their exes privately to stop the bleeding

I’ve seen BS friends drag their WS’s through the mud exposing them. Though they were faithful, eventually people dropped *them* for being desperate & toxic. You sound like a catch. If you’re done with her, draft your demands, work through your attorney & move on. Find a new career & woman. Hang in there & don’t look back. Wishing you good things going forward...




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## Kamstel

Just wanted to check in on you.

How did the move go?

What is your lawyer able to schedule an early hearing?

Just wanted to wish you nothing but the best of luck.
Stay strong. You can do this, and you will not only survive but you’ll be better off in the very near future.


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## FloridaGuy123

Quick update

Temporary Hearing in a few weeks
interrogatories exchanged and replying

Her side hinted at an offer but it was like 5% of monthly income ($2k a month, her income is $40k a month) told my lawyer that was a non-starter. 

Temporary hearing is likely to impose some costs on her as she has a huge income and I don't. After that, I think negotiations will get serious. I am not looking for a *Mortal Kombat* type battle here; I did love my wife and I actually do want her to be happy...but I also want to make sure there is a connection between her actions to their consequences. Something like 1/3 of her income as support for half the length of our marriage is where I'd like this to go. If she gets it done this year, she can leverage the tax code...if she doesn't...then...Mortal Kombat time I guess.

Meanwhile I'm at my friend's beach house trying to get my business up and running. I'm OK


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## Rob_1

Keep at it the way you've been doing. Adapt as necessary. Good luck. And keep the forum posted.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Quick update
> 
> Temporary Hearing in a few weeks
> interrogatories exchanged and replying
> 
> Her side hinted at an offer but it was like 5% of monthly income ($2k a month, her income is $40k a month) told my lawyer that was a non-starter.
> 
> Temporary hearing is likely to impose some costs on her as she has a huge income and I don't. After that, I think negotiations will get serious. I am not looking for a *Mortal Kombat* type battle here; I did love my wife and I actually do want her to be happy...but I also want to make sure there is a connection between her actions to their consequences. Something like 1/3 of her income as support for half the length of our marriage is where I'd like this to go. If she gets it done this year, she can leverage the tax code...if she doesn't...then...Mortal Kombat time I guess.
> 
> Meanwhile I'm at my friend's beach house trying to get my business up and running. I'm OK


They are low-balling you to negotiate up. I would reply to that offer to more than double what you are asking for. Say 2/3rds for twice the length of the marriage. Then you can negotiate down. If they complain you are being unreasonable laugh and ask them to take a jaundiced look at their offer, her lying cheating betrayal and ask themselves, who is being unreasonable? Quietly remind them you have not exposed her affair yet but you could rent billboards all around the hospital and practice. There is YELP too.


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## Clay2013

I would take her for us much as you can. My reasoning for it would be that your a victim. She used you for your funds to help her through schooling. She used your stability to get her through med school. It is going to take years to get over this kind of a betrayal. You will need help paying for counseling. You will need help dealing with future relationships. This will also effect your work. I would take her for everything I could to plan for my future. I would take full advantage of counseling and what ever I could to build myself back up.

This now is your time to heal take full advantage of that. 

C


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## frustratedinphx

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> They are low-balling you to negotiate up. I would reply to that offer to more than double what you are asking for. Say 2/3rds for twice the length of the marriage. Then you can negotiate down. If they complain you are being unreasonable laugh and ask them to take a jaundiced look at their offer, her lying cheating betrayal and ask themselves, who is being unreasonable? Quietly remind them you have not exposed her affair yet but you could rent billboards all around the hospital and practice. There is YELP too.



1. I’m not aware of any court in recent times offering support for any longer than half the marriage term.
2. No one in court gives a **** about *their* personal circumstances. They have hundreds or thousands of other cases on their desk. “Next!”
3. Telling him to do something as desperate as advertising her affair on billboards will really up his chances with new partners. He’ll forever be “Angry Billboard Guy” (doesn’t need to be angry, but will look that way).




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## frustratedinphx

Just an observation. A lot of you sound really money-hungry. We’ve all got to live, but damn! (FTR- I’m a woman).


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

FloridaG, just stay in the mindset that this is negotiation. Negotiation, negotiation, negotiation. Do whatever you need to do to make up your financial loss, wasted time being involved with her plus the financial stings she deserves for using you.


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## Kamstel

Thanks for the update. Glad you are doing well, or as good as possible.

Hope you enjoy the scenery at the beach while reestablishing your business. What area/field is your business in?

Good luck and keep moving forward. If you need to vent or ask for advice.....


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## Kamstel

Were there any issues with getting your stuff?

Any other interesting comments from her?


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## BluesPower

frustratedinphx said:


> Just an observation. A lot of you sound really money-hungry. We’ve all got to live, but damn! (FTR- I’m a woman).


And you sound like a woman (no offense). 

So is it OK that woman that marriage a young medical student, get him through med school and residency, only to have him divorce her for a young woman, because he can? 

Except for the younger woman, that is what OP's wife has done to him. He took her though collage, med school, residency, shut down a successful business so he could move with her, And then SHE started cheating on him. 

Now, he is not a drug addict, or a drunk, and he met her physical needs and took care of her through out her education, so she did not have an excuse for cheating like you did...

So how do you think he should feel. I mean we all know women that take a cheating husband to the cleaners...

Why should he not do the same thing...


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## seadoug105

BluesPower said:


> Why should he not do the same thing...


Because... the need for equality only exists for people when it benefits them. However if the "social norms" benefit them then they are not only OK they should be defended. And those that go against them should be criticized, shamed, and in extreme cases burned at the stake.


ever heard of any mainstream equality group pushing to change the social norm of "WOMEN & Children First" when it comes to evacuating a sinking ship. Sure its a stupidly rare occurrence, but so are many of the things that people advocate for "equality"/"rights" on... Why should divorce settlements or custody issues be any different for them?


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## FloridaGuy123

frustratedinphx said:


> 1. I’m not aware of any court in recent times offering support for any longer than half the marriage term.
> 2. No one in court gives a sh*t about *their* personal circumstances. They have hundreds or thousands of other cases on their desk. “Next!”
> 3. Telling him to do something as desperate as advertising her affair on billboards will really up his chances with new partners. He’ll forever be “Angry Billboard Guy” (doesn’t need to be angry, but will look that way).
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


There's a clean negotiation plan and a dirty negotiation plan. 

Clean negotiation = offer, counter offer, the usual, all within in the context of what a court would customarily do. I know what ranges of awards are realistic, and by using some ordinary stressors (like temporary support, legal fees, the public record, etc) I can probably shift her side's thinking to the high end of that range. *Understand this:* I sat there and collected evidence of her affairs for three months. I slept next to her while the texts from the other guy came in. I played dumb while she went out of town for "professional education" - meanwhile I had my people taking pictures, recording things and so forth. Do you think I will go to Court without already knowing the likely outcomes? Absurd. The homework is done. The books are put away.

Dirty = drop a neutron bomb, and nothing will ever grow in her world, ever again. Because I have everything. E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G...and she has done some things that she should not...and I'm not talking about ****ing another dude, and I'm not talking about telling her mom that her daughter was a bad girl. No, friendo...those are small moves and I made big ones. The hospital corporation, their insurance companies, and the state licensing authorities would not be happy to know what I know and can prove, and she can go practice medicine in Burkina Faso (with a few others who will be deposed if she wants _Mortal Kombat_). So if it gets out of hand, the third question in deposition will be "Have you ever [insert bad things here]?" and that will be the end of that. Her lawyer will freak, demand a break and I will suggest a path to resolution and they will agree. 

Of course, I prefer to keep it clean. But I can get in the deepest mud. Already did that in the Navy. Now I'll do it with different weapons  Triggering event for clean-to-dirty strategy change is either (a) three bull**** offers or (b) contesting custody of the dog. So far there has been one bull**** offer.


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## Red Sonja

frustratedinphx said:


> Just an observation. A lot of you sound really money-hungry. We’ve all got to live, but damn! (FTR- I’m a woman).


I don't think you read the thread ... his wife qualifies as a con-artist and, money is what she conned him out of ... probably well into the 6 figures range.


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## frustratedinphx

I have a friend going through this right now. Her husband of X number of years, did medical school, internship, residency, fellowship, etc... They have 3 kids. He just left her for a nurse! He's a total POS. She's not after his money. She's hurt, but feels like "good riddens." I don't blame her, but would understand if she did the same as you. He needs to support his kids and let her get back on her feet. Her income allowed them to live while he was in med school and he moved them all over the place to do it. She's lost out in the process too. It sucks, but he's still the father of her kids. What do you think will happen to their kids if she went "nuclear" on their dad. How would it affect them?

Again, not saying the OP shouldn't be justly compensated for his lost income and support of his STBXW, but Jeez! I've had a number of friends leave very high-profile divorces from complete a$$hats. My friends took the high road to their detriment. This isn't black and white, it's shades of gray.

@FloridaGuy123 Dirty. Really?! On the other end of the spectrum, I have a client who's wife did this to him. I closed 3hrs ago on their million $+ home. He makes ~ a half million/yr. They have 1 child together- almost 14. She's a psycho- completely bat sh*t crazy. EVERYONE KNOWS IT- our mutual friends, his colleagues, even their staff knew it. My client nonetheless didn't freak out when she left, taking EVERYTHING in their 5200SF home, including the custom window treatments, every bit of paperwork (including the roof receipts I needed for the sale). She left his clothes & 1 bed. He totally said OK when the judge ordered spousal support in the amount of $6K/mo, but she reneged and wanted $8K/mo ($2K goes for is 1 kid= $10K/mo total). He was ordered to pay their insane credit card bills ($40K/mo on her AMEX black card he didn't have to use himself). 

He still didn't go postal when she had multiple orders of protection that make it so he can't even know where his child lives because he's so "abusive" (I believe patently false & he's shown me messages of: their conversations, her conversations with their son, her lawyers conversations with his attorney). Even when he LOST HIS JOB, she made it so he had to still pay her. Never mind the times the judge found her in contempt for lying and she was ordered to repay attorneys fees for obstruction. After the sale, he'll net ~$110K on a home he's owned (weren't married when he bought it) for over 30 years. It should be paid off by now, but he had to keep leveraging it to pay off her debt. I'm giving him a discount because A. I feel so bad for him being in this place in his 60s starting over with essentially nothing except his current earning power, as long as he can work & B. He was my doctor. He delivered my 1st-born baby & saved us both after a 36-hr labor. I spiked a temp, my baby's heart went into distress & he took one look at my chart & me and I was in the OR in 10 min.- everyone scrubbed & ready to go. He was still kind to me even though I chewed his a$$ out (well, & everyone else too. I was delirious after no food or water for 36hrs and a stuck baby due to the incompetence of his colleague, but apologized to all of them with notes).

All the people she bamboozled into believing her (she tried with me too, but I saw her for what she was) now think she's crazy and are abandoning her one by one. The easiest way to see it is how she alienates him from seeing their son. She's NEVER worked since they got married. Currently, she's in college to get her *undergraduate* degree (mid-50s) & eventually a law degree so she can sue him and take away his medical license- she's already tried, unsuccessfully. Mind you, he's a published author and was a partner/director at a very prestigious, nationally-recognized perinatology group. I'll add, he wasn't an angel either, but the snippets of everything above, were minuscule compared to the course of their 30-plenty year relationship. Despite all that, he still feels bad for his failures as a husband & doesn't want her to suffer. He wants what's best for her and their son. When he made an unfair comment about her "This house has never looked this clean. She certainly didn't keep it this way!", I replied "That's not true. I've seen it this clean". He responded "Now that you say that, I think I was paying for 2 housekeepers at the same time..." (in case you think I'm the agent that blows smoke up everyone's ass).

The point is, I say in the kindest way possible, *no one cares*. They may scoff at her and look at her funny now, give her the cold shoulder, etc. My WS told my mom about my affair and was mortified, but was then disgusted by his failure to mention his affair and all the crap he's pulled since... (water under the bridge today). Eventually, if she's good at what she does and is a decent person, people will move on. On the other hand, if your vendetta is short-lived, maybe it'll wash over. Most people look at things in totality, not a vacuum. Please remember, stooping to her level, puts you at her level. You have a leg up here. I honestly advise you to quietly do what you need to, wrap it up fast & move on to greener pastures. All the other stuff outside of dividing your assets is a waste of your precious life. I mean that sincerely. FTR- I gave him the same advice. He's trying too.

FYI- not to minimize doctors cheating on spouses, it happens, a lot. My girlfriends married to physicians have very thick skin, but plan for the worst case. Most stay put though. Unless he's a total **** and killing them emotionally, it's better than being on the other side.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

FloridaGuy123 said:


> There's a clean negotiation plan and a dirty negotiation plan.
> 
> Clean negotiation = offer, counter offer, the usual, all within in the context of what a court would customarily do. I know what ranges of awards are realistic, and by using some ordinary stressors (like temporary support, legal fees, the public record, etc) I can probably shift her side's thinking to the high end of that range. *Understand this:* I sat there and collected evidence of her affairs for three months. I slept next to her while the texts from the other guy came in. I played dumb while she went out of town for "professional education" - meanwhile I had my people taking pictures, recording things and so forth. Do you think I will go to Court without already knowing the likely outcomes? Absurd. The homework is done. The books are put away.
> 
> Dirty = drop a neutron bomb, and nothing will ever grow in her world, ever again. Because I have everything. E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G...and she has done some things that she should not...and I'm not talking about ****ing another dude, and I'm not talking about telling her mom that her daughter was a bad girl. No, friendo...those are small moves and I made big ones. The hospital corporation, their insurance companies, and the state licensing authorities would not be happy to know what I know and can prove, and she can go practice medicine in Burkina Faso (with a few others who will be deposed if she wants _Mortal Kombat_). So if it gets out of hand, the third question in deposition will be "Have you ever [insert bad things here]?" and that will be the end of that. Her lawyer will freak, demand a break and I will suggest a path to resolution and they will agree.
> 
> Of course, I prefer to keep it clean. But I can get in the deepest mud. Already did that in the Navy. Now I'll do it with different weapons  Triggering event for clean-to-dirty strategy change is either (a) three bull**** offers or (b) contesting custody of the dog. So far there has been one bull**** offer.


Now that is negotiating!


----------



## DustyDog

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 39yo man, married 3.5 years. Had suspected my wife of cheating based on unusual behaviors, change in patterns etc. Evidence was scant, but gradually appeared...and like most guys I might have been in denial. After all, months ago we took a ski vacation in the Alps and all was well.
> 
> Proof has arrived. Not evidence, proof. I know who the guy is. He lives out of town. I know where he works but I do not know too much else about him or anything. She doesn't know that I know. However I will soon confront her. Have to. I cannot tolerate this.
> 
> Ours is the classic situation where I supported her through her medical training, and she has now begun a job where her income is upwards of $40k a month before taxes. In order to support us, I sold a business. We moved, and in doing so, limited my professional opportunities. I do well in big cities, we moved to smallish ones. I currently work at a business I started online; it makes about $1,500 a month. She earns an enormous income.
> 
> I am meeting with a lawyer later this week to learn the rules. We live in an apartment and don't have kids, just two dogs. If anyone has any advice, I am all ears, especially on
> 
> - financial stuff. As far as I know, her income is our income and she can't legally cut me off in some way. We have a joint bank account.
> 
> - living arrangements. Gonna be rough living with a bad person. Since she is having the affair, I should ask her to leave. Can I?
> 
> I realize the lawyer will answer a lot of these. However, I am also trying to prepare for that consultation, so please do share anything you've got.


What I learned going through divorce recently:

- Living situation. No lawyer or court will be willing to work with you as long as you remain physically together.


Financial stuff:
The courts don't give a hoot about who suppoerted whom in terms of "I supported you now you owe me!". Their take is sort of hard to digest at first:
- Assumption made is that however the two of you have lived to date is agreed upon. That is, even if you wanted it different, it's been this way for years anyway, therefore it is, by legal de facto standards, an agreement that nobody has legally complained about before
- Therefore, they will execute a financial split that, to the greatest extent possible, keeps you both financially right where you are - or hurts both of you the same amount.

If hers is the only income, you'll get some. 

The usual formula, which varies a lot:

Higher income subracted from lower income equals difference. Think of it annually.
Lower income person gets 30-50% of this amount. For a time period equal to half the marriage.

So, if she earned $40k and you earned $10k, the diff is $30k. If you were married 8 years, you'll get half this for four years, or $15k annual for four years.

In most states, a "short" marriage is 5 years or less, "long" is 20 years or more, and medium is in between. The above formula is used for medium and long.

Good luck.


----------



## azimuth

FloridaGuy123 said:


> So if it gets out of hand, the third question in deposition will be "Have you ever [insert bad things here]?" and that will be the end of that. Her lawyer will freak, demand a break and I will suggest a path to resolution and they will agree.


When I worked for a civil attorney all deposition questions, evidence and witnesses had to be entered and sometimes approved by both sides before the deposition took place. That was civil law, so divorce might be different. But just FYI many negotiations happen for the deposition itself, and there are rarely any surprises on deposition day.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

azimuth said:


> When I worked for a civil attorney all deposition questions, evidence and witnesses had to be entered and sometimes approved by both sides before the deposition took place. That was civil law, so divorce might be different. But just FYI many negotiations happen for the deposition itself, and there are rarely any surprises on deposition day.


Here's how this goes

Question 1: script
Question 2: script
shuffles papers

Question 3: have you ever [very narrow question about a very specific, very bad, thing] ?
Freakout ensues
Oops I'm sorry wrong file, my mistake.

Why would my lawyer do that? Because he's involved with the local arm of a large political entity and would love a bump up the ranks. The guy whose beach house I'm in, colleague of mine when we worked for the government, used his connections from our Navy jobs to get hired on Wall Street, made a tidy little fortune and went into politics. Now he's a big shot _at the national level_ in that same organization. In fact, my lawyer knew the name before I even discussed anything. I went a different way in my career. Let's just say that. 

Of course, I knew all this before I hired that specific lawyer. And I knew from an hour of web research that this lawyer has bigger dreams than being a judge in County Court one day. Just like I knew what my wife was doing, with pictures, recordings, financials and all the texts before I filed anything.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

DustyDog said:


> What I learned going through divorce recently:
> 
> - Living situation. No lawyer or court will be willing to work with you as long as you remain physically together.
> 
> 
> Financial stuff:
> The courts don't give a hoot about who suppoerted whom in terms of "I supported you now you owe me!". Their take is sort of hard to digest at first:
> - Assumption made is that however the two of you have lived to date is agreed upon. That is, even if you wanted it different, it's been this way for years anyway, therefore it is, by legal de facto standards, an agreement that nobody has legally complained about before
> - Therefore, they will execute a financial split that, to the greatest extent possible, keeps you both financially right where you are - or hurts both of you the same amount.
> 
> If hers is the only income, you'll get some.
> 
> The usual formula, which varies a lot:
> 
> Higher income subracted from lower income equals difference. Think of it annually.
> Lower income person gets 30-50% of this amount. For a time period equal to half the marriage.
> 
> So, if she earned $40k and you earned $10k, the diff is $30k. If you were married 8 years, you'll get half this for four years, or $15k annual for four years.
> 
> In most states, a "short" marriage is 5 years or less, "long" is 20 years or more, and medium is in between. The above formula is used for medium and long.
> 
> Good luck.


Agreed. 1/3 of her income for half the length of the marriage is the number. That's about $12k a month. Of course, a Court might do something crazy and give me less. But $2k a month is a non-starter.


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Red Sonja said:


> I don't think you read the thread ... his wife qualifies as a con-artist and, money is what she conned him out of ... probably well into the 6 figures range.


This is correct. 

All of it. 

I'm going to skate out of here for a while. Will be in touch and as always, I sincerely appreciate the support.


----------



## azimuth

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Here's how this goes
> 
> Question 1: script
> Question 2: script
> shuffles papers
> 
> Question 3: have you ever [very narrow question about a very specific, very bad, thing] ?
> Freakout ensues
> Oops I'm sorry wrong file, my mistake.
> 
> Why would my lawyer do that? Because he's involved with the local arm of a large political entity and would love a bump up the ranks. The guy whose beach house I'm in, colleague of mine when we worked for the government, used his connections from our Navy jobs to get hired on Wall Street, made a tidy little fortune and went into politics. Now he's a big shot _at the national level_ in that same organization. In fact, my lawyer knew the name before I even discussed anything. I went a different way in my career. Let's just say that.
> 
> Of course, I knew all this before I hired that specific lawyer. And I knew from an hour of web research that this lawyer has bigger dreams than being a judge in County Court one day. Just like I knew what my wife was doing, with pictures, recordings, financials and all the texts before I filed anything.


If he does that during the deposition, then that would be extremely unethical. He would not be respected by anyone in the legal community and it would hurt his reputation badly.


----------



## Wolfman1968

frustratedinphx said:


> *1. I’m not aware of any court in recent times offering support for any longer than half the marriage term.*
> 2. No one in court gives a sh*t about *their* personal circumstances. They have hundreds or thousands of other cases on their desk. “Next!”
> 3. Telling him to do something as desperate as advertising her affair on billboards will really up his chances with new partners. He’ll forever be “Angry Billboard Guy” (doesn’t need to be angry, but will look that way).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Then you haven't done much effort to educate yourself on this subject. In 10 seconds of Google I found this legal website discussing Permanent Alimony for marriages of 17 years in Florida, the OP's state (17 years is the legal duration to presume permanent alimony liability in that jurisdiction). 
https://www.floridalegaladvice.com/blog/how-to-get-permanent-alimony-in-florida/

The governor vetoed the bill to stop permanent alimony in 2016. So permanent alimony still stands in Florida. There are other states which also have permanent alimony, readily listed by Google.

So, it's fine if you don't know, but then to post your statement above (which seems to imply some degree of knowledge) is misleading to the discussion and gives misinformation to people seeking guidance on the topic. And if they live in a permanent alimony state, they may make wrong decisions based on your post. (Conceivably their attorneys would set them straight, but as we can see from TAM posters, people in deteriorating relationships sometimes make stupid moves based on incorrect assumptions before they meet with their attorneys).

Since this TAM is an advice and opinion forum, you should really strive to be accurate in your posts when you post facts (as opposed to opinions or viewpoints, which by their nature are subjective).


----------



## MyRevelation

azimuth said:


> When I worked for a civil attorney all deposition questions, evidence and witnesses had to be entered and sometimes approved by both sides before the deposition took place. That was civil law, so divorce might be different. But just FYI many negotiations happen for the deposition itself, and there are rarely any surprises on deposition day.


Either you are mistaken or this is something peculiar to Texas, because I have sit in on hundreds of depositions and there was never this type of pre-structured questions. Depositions are mostly fishing expeditions ... sure, you know where the fish will likely bite, and spend most of your time in that area, but you also fish in some unlikely places to see what might be there.

FG seems to have done his homework (once again) and picked the right attorney for the job at hand.


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## azimuth

MyRevelation said:


> Either you are mistaken or this is something peculiar to Texas, because I have sit in on hundreds of depositions and there was never this type of pre-structured questions. Depositions are mostly fishing expeditions ... sure, you know where the fish will likely bite, and spend most of your time in that area, but you also fish in some unlikely places to see what might be there.
> 
> FG seems to have done his homework (once again) and picked the right attorney for the job at hand.


That's great. I was describing my experience in depositions because it's different than what FG said. I have never seen a deposition where questions, witnesses and evidence weren't entered into the case beforehand, so I was warning him not to expect a surprise and base his negotiation off of that happening. Obviously it's different in Florida or wherever his divorce is filed. I stand corrected.


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## Taxman

FG
I am impressed. People like yourself are few and far between. The number of times I wished I had a devastating piece of evidence to use against a cheating spouse and really make them pay while huddled in a corner expecting the sky to fall...sir, you are a champion. My prediction is, if you have really held your water, and they have no idea what is coming their way, the first discovery will require air freshener. Been there. PI pictures and everything. Watched the WW's face go from an entitled smirk to white as a sheet, to an expression of horror and fear. Yeah, we had her dead to rights. (I showed my wife one evidenciary pic, and she thought I was showing her internet porn). The threat was that we would be divulging all of this information to both their professional organizations, and they would likely never work in their respective fields again. We, in exchange for a great financial settlement, agreed to a non-disclosure. Sure it sounds like extortion, but what settlement isn't?


----------



## calmwinds

Re: So, here we are
FG
I am impressed. People like yourself are few and far between. The number of times I wished I had a devastating piece of evidence to use against a cheating spouse and really make them pay while huddled in a corner expecting the sky to fall...sir, you are a champion. My prediction is, if you have really held your water, and they have no idea what is coming their way, the first discovery will require air freshener. Been there. PI pictures and everything. Watched the WW's face go from an entitled smirk to white as a sheet, to an expression of horror and fear. Yeah, we had her dead to rights. (I showed my wife one evidenciary pic, and she thought I was showing her internet porn). The threat was that we would be divulging all of this information to both their professional organizations, and they would likely never work in their respective fields again. We, in exchange for a great financial settlement, agreed to a non-disclosure. Sure it sounds like extortion, but what settlement isn't?

Where's the HEART button???!!!


----------



## TDSC60

calmwinds said:


> Re: So, here we are
> FG
> I am impressed. People like yourself are few and far between. The number of times I wished I had a devastating piece of evidence to use against a cheating spouse and really make them pay while huddled in a corner expecting the sky to fall...sir, you are a champion. My prediction is, if you have really held your water, and they have no idea what is coming their way, the first discovery will require air freshener. Been there. PI pictures and everything. Watched the WW's face go from an entitled smirk to white as a sheet, to an expression of horror and fear. Yeah, we had her dead to rights. (I showed my wife one evidenciary pic, and she thought I was showing her internet porn). The threat was that we would be divulging all of this information to both their professional organizations, and they would likely never work in their respective fields again. We, in exchange for a great financial settlement, agreed to a non-disclosure. Sure it sounds like extortion, but what settlement isn't?
> 
> *Where's the HEART button???!!!*


She stomped it flat and disabled it when she cheated.


----------



## GusPolinski

Strongly suggest having this thread moved to Private.


----------



## farsidejunky

GusPolinski said:


> Strongly suggest having this thread moved to Private.


I'm inclined to agree, but I won't do it without the OP's request.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## frustratedinphx

Wolfman1968 said:


> Then you haven't done much effort to educate yourself on this subject. In 10 seconds of Google I found this legal website discussing Permanent Alimony for marriages of 17 years in Florida, the OP's state (17 years is the legal duration to presume permanent alimony liability in that jurisdiction).
> https://www.floridalegaladvice.com/blog/how-to-get-permanent-alimony-in-florida/
> 
> The governor vetoed the bill to stop permanent alimony in 2016. So permanent alimony still stands in Florida. There are other states which also have permanent alimony, readily listed by Google.
> 
> So, it's fine if you don't know, but then to post your statement above (which seems to imply some degree of knowledge) is misleading to the discussion and gives misinformation to people seeking guidance on the topic. And if they live in a permanent alimony state, they may make wrong decisions based on your post. (Conceivably their attorneys would set them straight, but as we can see from TAM posters, people in deteriorating relationships sometimes make stupid moves based on incorrect assumptions before they meet with their attorneys).
> 
> Since this TAM is an advice and opinion forum, you should really strive to be accurate in your posts when you post facts (as opposed to opinions or viewpoints, which by their nature are subjective).



You’re right. I didn’t educate myself. I said, “I’m not aware...” It sounds like this is far from the norm from all the other states. If you strive for accuracy, YOU should have paid better attention to what you shared. YOUR article stated: “17 years is the legal duration to presume permanent alimony liability in that jurisdiction”.

A. It doesn’t apply to FG’s 3.5yr marriage. B. FL is one of only 7 states with permanent alimony & C. As far as adultery goes, “Courts are most likely to take adultery into account when one spouse's affair caused the other financial harm. For example, if one spouse bought lavish gifts for a paramour using marital funds, the court might factor that into the alimony award.” 

None of your “advice” applies to FG. What was the point of your whistle-blowing mission anyway?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Thor

In my stae, which does have permanent alimony, the formulas and time periods are completely different than those mentioned above in this thread. Furthermore, infidelity in no way is a factor in determining alimony. No fault divorce, no fault alimony.

The best advice for anyone is to research the laws where you live and consult with a good local attorney.


----------



## frustratedinphx

Red Sonja said:


> I don't think you read the thread ... his wife qualifies as a con-artist and, money is what she conned him out of ... probably well into the 6 figures range.




“Con-artist”? I didn’t interpret that. She sounds young and arrogant, but many doctors have God complexes. I get it, but it doesn’t mean they should carry it home.

OP said he “supported” her. Unless she has $0 student loans, he likely didn’t *pay for* her tuition & she has big debt. I’m guessing he paid their living expenses with his income. If school was their proverbial “children” and she took them on, now she’s returning the favor. He gets to be home while she makes the dough. She’s probably paying more now to support them than he ever did. (Just a theory)

She cheated. She sucks. Either way it sounds like OP’s coming out on top. This whole thread has been about money. OP has rarely said he loves her or is heartbroken. Just my observation. That’s all. I know how much this forum ❤s women who do this same thing... (NOT)


----------



## skerzoid

frustratedinphx said:


> “Con-artist”? I didn’t interpret that. She sounds young and arrogant, but many doctors have God complexes. I get it, but it doesn’t mean they should carry it home.
> 
> OP said he “supported” her. Unless she has $0 student loans, he likely didn’t *pay for* her tuition & she has big debt. I’m guessing he paid their living expenses with his income. If school was their proverbial “children” and she took them on, now she’s returning the favor. He gets to be home while she makes the dough. She’s probably paying more now to support them than he ever did. (Just a theory)
> 
> She cheated. She sucks. Either way it sounds like OP’s coming out on top. This whole thread has been about money. OP has rarely said he loves her or is heartbroken. Just my observation. That’s all. I know how much this forum ❤s women who do this same thing... (NOT)


1. Marriage & Divorce are the business ends of Love. Lovers do not need to marry to be in love or to maintain the relationship. 

2. Marriage is a business contract to ensure the financial aspects of the relationship (such as responsibilities for children, expenditures, medical bills, utilities, etc.). 

3. She didn't hold up her end of the contract, she has to pay.

4. Betrayal is the worst crime imaginable. She was guilty of it. *She is not ashamed of it.* I hope he takes her for everything she has. It will be her just deserts. She will be a millionaire soon. I have no sympathy for her cheatin' heart.


----------



## seadoug105

Slight T/J but relevant....

Ever notice how a conspiracy theorist never question another person's conspiracy, no matter how crazy??? That's because they never want their own conspiracy question and then have to defend their thoughts against facts.

Remember those guys (let's face it they were usually guys) growing up that told tail so big it was almost embarasing and if you ever called the, out you were stupid, or jealous, or "just don't get it"? Heck ya probably had one as part of the "gang" back in the day.... then when those liars would meet other liars just like them, it was "story wars" with neither capable of calling "BS".... That's because a liar won't call out a liar, because they too don't want to be called a liar by someone as low as a liar...


Which leads us to here.. 
So many on the board have said it before... Waywards defend Waywards.....


----------



## Decorum

frustratedinphx said:


> “She’s probably paying more now to support them than he ever did. (Just a theory)


 @frustratedinphx,

I read some of your posts.
You were in a crappy situation, and did a ****ty thing.

From reading your posts I think that "****ty" thing was out of character for you.

I do believe your moral compass is better than that.

But who are you trying to help with posts like the one above?

The cause of women everywhere?

All we have here is the op, who has been handed a ****ty deal.

Are you trying to give support to the op, or trying to win an argument with your own conscience?

I actually think you have a lot to offer, but trying to minimize the culpability of a cheater is never going to get traction.

It merely adds to the number of skip-worthy pages in each thread.

I would like to read your posts thoughtfully, seeking a perspective I had not considered, not merely add you to my, "dont bother to read", list.

A word from the mind reaches the mind, a word from the heart reaches the heart.

I really do wish you well.
Take care.


----------



## Wolfman1968

frustratedinphx said:


> You’re right. I didn’t educate myself. I said, “I’m not aware...” It sounds like this is far from the norm from all the other states. If you strive for accuracy, YOU should have paid better attention to what you shared. YOUR article stated: “17 years is the legal duration to presume permanent alimony liability in that jurisdiction”.
> 
> A. It doesn’t apply to FG’s 3.5yr marriage. B. FL is one of only 7 states with permanent alimony & C. As far as adultery goes, “Courts are most likely to take adultery into account when one spouse's affair caused the other financial harm. For example, if one spouse bought lavish gifts for a paramour using marital funds, the court might factor that into the alimony award.”
> 
> None of your “advice” applies to FG. What was the point of your whistle-blowing mission anyway?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I didn't say that my "whistle-blowing mission", as you inappropriately name it, was specifically addressing the number of years involved in OP's note or anything else besides correcting your invalid statement. My statement is completely accurate. YOUR mistake was assuming it was meant specifically and only for the OP.

I quite clearly stated that people---ANYONE, not just the OP---may make rely on incorrect information posted here, and make mistakes prior to contacting their attorney to get the true information. In fact, OP seems to have his ducks in a row, so it's OTHERS besides the OP you are likely to mislead with your faulty information.

You need to get that chip off your shoulder. You haven't shed it from your original post. The goal is to be accurate when making statements of fact that other readers who come here for information might rely on as true.


----------



## GusPolinski

frustratedinphx said:


> “Con-artist”? I didn’t interpret that. She sounds young and arrogant, but many doctors have God complexes. I get it, but it doesn’t mean they should carry it home.
> 
> OP said he “supported” her. Unless she has $0 student loans, he likely didn’t *pay for* her tuition & she has big debt. I’m guessing he paid their living expenses with his income. If school was their proverbial “children” and she took them on, now she’s returning the favor. He gets to be home while she makes the dough. She’s probably paying more now to support them than he ever did. (Just a theory)
> 
> She cheated. She sucks. Either way it sounds like OP’s coming out on top. This whole thread has been about money. *OP has rarely said he loves her or is heartbroken.* Just my observation. That’s all. I know how much this forum ❤s women who do this same thing... (NOT)


Why should that matter?


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## frustratedinphx

I’ll be honest, I don’t see many of you guys defending women in the “take ‘em for all they’re worth...” argument. Many BSs seem genuinely horrified about their betrayal. They mourn the loss of the relationship & of the person they thought they loved. I don’t see that in FG. It went straight to money. FTR- this is the 3rd or 4th time I’ve said this & y’all seem to gloss right over it. Speaking of BSs, remember *I’M ONE TOO*, so I don’t get the double-standard. 

Sometimes you’re very kind (almost too kind) to OPs & I worry you’re fueling the monsters some BSs become- to the point of them 1. not learning to take a road so low, they’ll regret it later, 2. if an OPs goal it to R (not this OP), they’ll sh*it on the BS to the point of abuse & blow any chance (remember: not YOUR decision) & 3. to not repeat mistakes in their next relationships, which seems to be a common thing here. 

If we really cared about the OPs, we’d give them both sides of the coin before pushing them off the ledge. I’m personally the friend at lunch who will tell you if you have green sh*t in your teeth so you don’t embarrass yourself later... Which “friends” are you?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## frustratedinphx

GusPolinski said:


> Why should that matter?



If he didn’t love her, isn’t he then just a gold-digger with very fortunate (for him) circumstances? I’ve seen a few of you take this same attitude with WOMEN who *are* BSs in *the last week*. Just callin a spade a spade...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Wolfman1968

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Ours is the classic situation where I supported her through her medical training, and she has now begun a job where her income is upwards of $40k a month before taxes. * In order to support us, I sold a business. We moved, and in doing so, limited my professional opportunities. * I do well in big cities, we moved to smallish ones. I currently work at a business I started online; it makes about $1,500 a month. She earns an enormous income.





frustratedinphx said:


> OP said he “supported” her. Unless she has $0 student loans, he likely didn’t *pay for* her tuition & she has big debt. I’m guessing he paid their living expenses with his income. If school was their proverbial “children” and she took them on, now she’s returning the favor. He gets to be home while she makes the dough. She’s probably paying more now to support them than he ever did. (Just a theory)



Your chip on your shoulders seems to interfere with your ability to read what is posted and comprehend this objectively. The OP CLEARLY says he took a financial hit for the benefit of his cheating wife. He needs to be made whole. 

In fact, as anyone who own/runs a business knows, it's more than just adding up the dollars lost. There is lost time with building a referral base, relationships, etc. which take a long time to rebuild. That TIME can never really be recovered. His situation is very different than someone who is just paid an hourly wage. 

You seemed to be so obsessed with knocking down the OP and those that support him that you are unable to assess the situation objectively.


----------



## Wolfman1968

FloridaGuy123 said:


> *Not really looking for / expecting long term support.* I am 39 and CAN work again; actually have some decent connections and all that, and I am sure a Court will look and go "this guy can work", which would be accurate. *I am not interested in being taken care of for the rest of my life, but I would like to get restored to where I was before we switched directions for her career. *Basically zero chance of having sex with her again. I will look into the voice recorders and private detective maybe - talking to lawyer tomorrow so we'll see what they suggest.
> 
> You are correct in that I supported us during fellowship and residency. *We lived in "City A" during residency where I was doing well with my business. * *We moved to City B for fellowship, so I sold the business and, while in City B, paid all the rent and many of the bills, while doing all the day to day stuff you do when your partner works. Then we moved to "City C" for her job;* she's a type of surgeon, not getting more specific than that. Smaller cities often have greater demand for higher skill sets and so they pay more. That's the case here. I get your point about the degree being marital asset. I also know that mathematically, her stipend would not support payment of even a modest rent, along with her student loans and other bills.
> 
> Cities B and C are smaller cities and not a place where you see the kind of jobs I have experience with. As such I started another business. It's coming along but it takes time. Post divorce I would move back to "City A." I'll see what all that really means tomorrow; *like I said, not looking for a trillion dollars here, just want a bridge back to my pre-marriage life. *
> 
> I appreciate all the insights and look forward to others.





frustratedinphx said:


> If he didn’t love her, isn’t he then just a gold-digger with very fortunate (for him) circumstances? I’ve seen a few of you take this same attitude with WOMEN who *are* BSs in *the last week*. Just callin a spade a spade...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


No, you're calling a rake a spade.

On the FIRST PAGE of this thread, the OP makes CLEAR that he is just trying to be made whole for the very real monetary sacrifice he has made for his cheating wife's career. He SPECIFICALLY SAYS he just wants to be make whole. 

But you're so obsessed with this male/female BS, and blinded by your own situation (as outlined in your own thread) that you cannot see this objectively. Instead you INSULT the OP by calling him a "gold digger".


----------



## Wolfman1968

Wolfman1968 said:


> First, you need to talk to your lawyer. IMMEDIATELY.
> Your lawyer will give you the REAL info, especially based on your circumstances and your local/state laws.
> 
> Also, it's kind of sneaky, but you also might want to find out who the best attorneys in the area are and get a noncommittal "consultation" from each of them. Then, because of conflict of interest, they won't be able to represent your wife in the divorce proceedings.
> 
> That being said, I see a few issues with your situation. I deal with doctors and nurses every day, so I am familiar with some of the issues with medical professionals' lives.
> 
> First of all, you say *you have been married only 3.5 years. *That's not a long-term marriage in most jurisdictions, and you are relatively young, so I think the chance of you getting a long-term (many years) alimony is essentially zero. IF you can somehow establish that you destroyed your business in order to move to the small town where SHE can make a lot of money, then you may get some sort of rehabilitative arrangement to put you right after the sacrifice you made for HER career. However, you have to be able to clearly prove what you lost, and that it was ONLY for her professional benefit to move there.
> 
> Next, you say you supported her for her medical training, and she now earns over $40,000 per month. Now, the typical primary care doc will make about $200,000-ish (low $200k) annually in most areas, so I would speculate that she is not a primary care physician. May I ask what type of specialty/career she has? (I assume she is a physician when you say "medical training"). The reason I say this is because most specialties that earn that kind of income---plastic surgeon, orthopedic surgeon, etc.---have long training times in Residency/Fellowship, typically 5-7 years or more. *That means your 3.5 year marriage began AFTER medical school*, and therefore you did not pay her way to get the MD degree. In some jurisdictions, like New York, an advance degree acquired during the marriage and paid for with marital funds could be considered a marital asset, and you would therefore possibly be entitled to some of that future earning power. However, since post-MD training does NOT involve any tuition payments, and actually the trainee is PAID a stipend during the training (very low, considering the hours worked/degree of responsibility & training required, but still gets paid), the ability to claim a marital asset would therefore not be present. After all, Resident trainees are able to live on their own just on their stipend if they are single, so the argument that you had to sell your business to support yourselves will not be strong. Instead, it could just be argued that you were living beyond your means during those years and selling your business was just to support an excessive lifestyle, NOT to educate her in her profession. Your lawyer would be able to help you work out these details.
> 
> The exception to the paragraph above would be if her training period was short (the shortest Residencies in the US 3 years, which would be something like Family Practice); *even at that, your 3.5 year marriage *would mean that you would only be married for the last 6 months of medical school. That would be a hard sell to argue that you paid for her education, unless there was some sort of arrangement BEFORE marriage. However, as I said above, virtually no medical specialty leads to a position paying $40,000 per month with only 3 years of residency. What specialty is she in? The answer might impact your situation. You attorney will help you work this out.
> 
> Your best shot here is to somehow establish that you lost your business for her benefit, and get some compensation for that. With the details you provided so far, though, that might be an uphill battle. Again, you really need that attorney NOW.





frustratedinphx said:


> You’re right. I didn’t educate myself. I said, “I’m not aware...” It sounds like this is far from the norm from all the other states. If you strive for accuracy,* YOU should have paid better attention to what you shared. *YOUR article stated: “17 years is the legal duration to presume permanent alimony liability in that jurisdiction”.
> 
> A. It doesn’t apply to FG’s 3.5yr marriage. B. FL is one of only 7 states with permanent alimony & C. As far as adultery goes, “Courts are most likely to take adultery into account when one spouse's affair caused the other financial harm. For example, if one spouse bought lavish gifts for a paramour using marital funds, the court might factor that into the alimony award.”
> 
> None of your “advice” applies to FG. What was the point of your whistle-blowing mission anyway?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


And, for what it's worth, I'm FULLY AWARE of how long the OP's marriage is. In fact, I REPEATEDLY state the duration on my first post to the OP on this thread, as shown above. My post to which you responded was, as I said, to correct YOU. I included the 17 years (WITH SUPPORTING LINKS) to specifically show one state---Florida, where the OP lived---which refuted your erroneous statement implying no permanent alimony *ANYWHERE*. If your erroneous statement was left standing, then OTHER readers (possibly who would fall in the time frame) would potentially end up misdirected by your careless post.

It looks like *YOU* need to pay better attention.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

A misandrist sees misogyny under every rock, behind every tree and in every thread.


----------



## the guy

Rubix Cubed said:


> A misandrist sees misogyny under every rock, behind every tree and in every thread.


I don't get it?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

the guy said:


> I don't get it?


I'm sorry to hear that.
It will likely become clear if it hasn't already after reading back a few posts.


----------



## frustratedinphx

skerzoid said:


> I hope he takes her for everything she has. It will be her just deserts.






BluesPower said:


> So how do you think he should feel. I mean we all know women that take a cheating husband to the cleaners...
> 
> 
> 
> Why should he not do the same thing...





Clay2013 said:


> I would take her for us much as you can. My reasoning for it would be that your a victim. She used you for your funds to help her through schooling. She used your stability to get her through med school.
> 
> C





Red Sonja said:


> I don't think you read the thread ... his wife qualifies as a con-artist and, money is what she conned him out of ... probably well into the 6 figures range.





Wolfman1968 said:


> No, you're calling a rake a spade.
> 
> On the FIRST PAGE of this thread, the OP makes CLEAR that he is just trying to be made whole for the very real monetary sacrifice he has made for his cheating wife's career. He SPECIFICALLY SAYS he just wants to be make whole.
> 
> But you're so obsessed with this male/female BS, and blinded by your own situation (as outlined in your own thread) that you cannot see this objectively. Instead you INSULT the OP by calling him a "gold digger".



You’re right. Maybe FG’s not a gold-digger, but several of you are. I’m not for any man or woman taking their spouse to the cleaners out of spite. To be made whole? Absolutely.

I’ve been a small business owner for almost 14 years & know the value of “blue sky”. Thanks. I’m contemplating a move to make my life better that would involve giving some up- ironically to FL. Impossible? No. Challenging? Certainly.



frustratedinphx said:


> I’m not aware of any court in recent times offering support for any longer than half the marriage term.



If you have to take my statement that far out of context & find a seldom-applicable alimony award that only exists in 7/50 states & is so unpopular that its demise is the sole cause of advocacy groups to *suit your argument*, you start to look biased & desperate. Is your goal “to warn the rest of TAM” (who’ll seek advice from an attorney anyway) or pile it on me? Be honest with yourself.

Go back & read what I wrote or I’ll sum it up again for you: 
1. NO ONE cares who cheated- not the courts, family, friends, employers. Some sooner than others.
2. Good people do bad things. I’m not saying OP’s wife or OP are bad or good, but YOU DON’T KNOW & never really will. 
3. You can’t undo things you say or do. These things cause damage. Taking the high road isn’t for chumps (the “high road” isn’t about $). 
4. Anyone jilted by a WS is best served by getting help for their injuries & moving on, fast. Dragging lots of sh*t through the courts only burns lots of money. If money is your cause, don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.

I’m out of this “bitter, divorced men’s group” thread. “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking. OP- Hope you get the satisfaction you want. The rest of you (bitter ones)... no words.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tatsuhiko

frustratedinphx said:


> “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking.


For those of you who didn't catch it, this is a dig at how uneducated you are, since you probably don't even know how to spell "riddance". 

We should feel honored, however briefly, to have one of the elite among us. You see, you guys are so wrong that she's compelled to denigrate you. but make no mistake, it's _you_ who are looking "biased and desperate", not her. She'll take her marbles and go home now. That'll teach you yokels.


----------



## 23cm

frustratedinphx said:


> You’re right. Maybe FG’s not a gold-digger, but several of you are. I’m not for any man or woman taking their spouse to the cleaners out of spite. To be made whole? Absolutely.
> 
> I’m out of this “bitter, divorced men’s group” thread. “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking. OP- Hope you get the satisfaction you want. The rest of you (bitter ones)... no words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry your butt hurts.


----------



## the guy

Sorry for the thread jack....but

I can't spell so please spell it out.


Seriously I don't even know what misadrist or misgnyo even means


Come on RC you know me...I'm from redneckistan and need a little help. 

T/J over.

What's denigrate mean?


----------



## BluesPower

frustratedinphx said:


> I’ll be honest, I don’t see many of you guys defending women in the “take ‘em for all they’re worth...” argument. Many BSs seem genuinely horrified about their betrayal. They mourn the loss of the relationship & of the person they thought they loved. I don’t see that in FG. It went straight to money. FTR- this is the 3rd or 4th time I’ve said this & y’all seem to gloss right over it. Speaking of BSs, remember *I’M ONE TOO*, so I don’t get the double-standard.


What you don't seem to get is that there are people that refuse to put up with infidelity, not matter what. 

Unlike you and your husband, FG knew that reconciliation was never an option. 

For the record, I advise everyone to take the cheater to the cleaners, male of female, however, most males get taken to the cleaners no matter who cheated.


----------



## Decorum

frustratedinphx said:


> I’m out of this “bitter, divorced men’s group” thread. “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking. OP- Hope you get the satisfaction you want. The rest of you (bitter ones)... no words.
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk











Oh Bother!

Well I tried.


----------



## barbados

Decorum said:


> Well I tried.


Yes you did. and quite eloquently I thought.

She has been doing nothing but flaming everyone since she got back here.


----------



## BluesPower

barbados said:


> Yes you did. and quite eloquently I thought.
> 
> She has been doing nothing but flaming everyone since she got back here.


She cannot accept that she is a POS for cheating on her husband for 5 years. She just will not accept that she is just as bad if not worse that he is. 

Of course HE is abusive, and you know maybe he is, but then as a business owner for 14 years she surely must have to money to divorce him, but she lacks the courage to do that. 

But above all, she will never take responsibility for the things that she has done in her marriage, because really, she was justified and entitled. 

What would it be like guys to be married to a woman like this? 

It sounds horrific to me...


----------



## Idyit

frustratedinphx said:


> *I’m out of this “bitter, divorced men’s group” thread*. “Good riddens” I’m sure you’re thinking. OP- Hope you get the satisfaction you want. The rest of you (bitter ones)... no words.
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Haha. Two of the "take Em to the cleaners" quotes you cited were from women


----------



## Wolfman1968

frustratedinphx said:


> If you have to take my statement that far out of context & find a seldom-applicable alimony award that only exists in 7/50 states & is so unpopular that its demise is the sole cause of advocacy groups to *suit your argument*, you start to look biased & desperate. Is your goal “to warn the rest of TAM” (who’ll seek advice from an attorney anyway) or pile it on me? Be honest with yourself.


I am honest with myself, but you aren't. Permanent is not "seldom used' if you live in one of that states that has it; and Florida and New Jersey are among the most populated states in the country, so it affects a lot of people. Furthermore, even without permanent alimony, in California, for example, marriages over 10 years still remain under the jurisdiction of the court, and are subject to modifications years later; so the specter of ongoing responsibility continues indefinitely. 

Why can't you just admit you were wrong and leave it, instead of going through contortions to minimize your misstatements and attempt to tar others.



frustratedinphx said:


> Go back & read what I wrote or I’ll sum it up again for you:
> 1. NO ONE cares who cheated- not the courts, family, friends, employers. Some sooner than others.
> 2. Good people do bad things. I’m not saying OP’s wife or OP are bad or good, but YOU DON’T KNOW & never really will.
> 3. You can’t undo things you say or do. These things cause damage. Taking the high road isn’t for chumps (the “high road” isn’t about $).
> 4.* Anyone jilted by a WS is best served by getting help for their injuries & moving on, fast. Dragging lots of sh*t through the courts only burns lots of money. If money is your cause, don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.
> *
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


And the OP is the poster child for a quick, clean divorce with ONLY trying to get himself back to where he was before he trashed his business for his wife's benefit. Yet you persist in insinuating he is a gold-digger (until the very last post). If you had bothered to REALLY pay attention to his posts, you should have never brought that up in the first place, because it is so insulting to him.

It's clear YOU'RE the one with the agenda here, and it can clearly be seen from your own thread.


----------



## skerzoid

1. I always consider whether the Wayward seems truly _remorseful or even regretful_. In this case, *the good doctor never even apologized*.

2. She is making 40 grand *a month*. That is almost half a million a year.

3. *He gave up his future to assure hers*.

4. *She needs a lesson*. Punitive damages in this case. _If she committed malpractice, what would the damages run into?_ 

5. *I rank infidelity in the top three abuses: Murder, Rape, and Infidelity.* It drives some to commit murder or suicide. It ruins entire families. It destroys kids. It spreads deadly diseases. This woman needs to be punished where it hurts: in this case her pocketbook. She needs to be made an example of. 

6. *Your outrage borders on hypocrisy*.


----------



## oldtruck

Tatsuhiko said:


> For those of you who didn't catch it, this is a dig at how uneducated you are, since you probably don't even know how to spell "riddance".
> 
> We should feel honored, however briefly, to have one of the elite among us. You see, you guys are so wrong that she's compelled to denigrate you. but make no mistake, it's _you_ who are looking "biased and desperate", not her. She'll take her marbles and go home now. That'll teach you yokels.


Unfortunately the Spelling Nazis are still with us and well as the 
Grammar Gestapo.

Whether a person does not spell well, or chooses to spell colloquially to
emphasize a point I will not judge


----------



## Rubix Cubed

the guy said:


> Sorry for the thread jack....but
> 
> I can't spell so please spell it out.
> 
> 
> Seriously I don't even know what misadrist or misgnyo even means
> 
> 
> Come on RC you know me...I'm from redneckistan and need a little help.
> 
> T/J over.
> 
> What's denigrate mean?


 mis·an·dry
miˈsandrē/Submit
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e., the male sex).
"her brand of feminism is just poorly disguised misandry"

mi·sog·y·ny
məˈsäjənē/Submit
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
"she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny"


den·i·grate
ˈdenəˌɡrāt/Submit
verb
criticize unfairly; disparage.
"there is a tendency to denigrate the poor"
synonyms:	disparage, belittle, deprecate, decry, cast aspersions on, criticize, attack; More

Us redneckistanians have to stick together.


----------



## the guy

OMG!
How can any one R with these kind of nouns and verbs be used against them?

Granted there are nouns and verbs that a wayward can implement to R the betrayal, but when there is this kind of DISREPECT...…


----------



## FloridaGuy123

Done

Successful mediation. I'll get $7k a month for half the length of the marriage. Her initial offer was $500. 500. There was crying and screaming from her room. I felt bad as this is my wife and I love her, but she was finally being held accountable for really bad treatment of me. 

She walked by at one point and mouthed the words "I'm sorry" through the glass wall. I just nodded my head. 

*I get my dog!*. I traded away over $10k for that little ****er. Worth it every time. 

When it was all said and done, it hurts like hell and I miss her. I suppose both will decrease with time. I still don't know WTF happened in our marriage. I guess the answer is she revealed her true self.

One day I will write a "how I handled it" thread if you think it might be useful.


----------



## lucy999

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Done
> 
> Successful mediation. I'll get $7k a month for half the length of the marriage. Her initial offer was $500. 500. There was crying and screaming from her room. I felt bad as this is my wife and I love her, but she was finally being held accountable for really bad treatment of me.
> 
> She walked by at one point and mouthed the words "I'm sorry" through the glass wall. I just nodded my head.
> 
> *I get my dog!*. I traded away over $10k for that little ****er. Worth it every time.
> 
> When it was all said and done, it hurts like hell and I miss her. I suppose both will decrease with time. I still don't know WTF happened in our marriage. I guess the answer is she revealed her true self.
> 
> One day I will write a "how I handled it" thread if you think it might be useful.


 I think congratulations are in order, despite the hurt you are feeling. I am elated about you getting your dog!

Good job. I think your idea about that thread is a good one.


----------



## badmemory

Good for you FG. You stayed the course and it payed off. I'm happy for you.

Now, spend that money wisely, but use some of it to get something you've always wanted. I'm sure better days are ahead for you.


----------



## Kamstel

Are you happy with it? I know that you would rather be happily married, but are you pleased with the deal?


Was there a non-disclosure clause?

Are you going to report her issue, whatever it was to State licensing board?

Hope you are ok. Yes, there will be plenty of bad days ahead, but you should know that you handled yourself very well.

I hope you will continue to post here on your future endeavors as this board needs examples of strong men who refuse to be a weak individual who can be used, abused, and taken advantage of by their cheating spouse.

Enjoy the next chapter of your life!


----------



## Robert22205

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry for your loss . Congratulations on the outcome. 

Can you disclose the potential or theoretical amount she might have been ordered to pay if you let a judge decide (vs settle)? 

Can you share what type of evidence you collected as well as any lessons learned in all this (or other advice) that may help the next victim?

Anything you can share will be appreciated!

Cheers!!!


----------



## Faithful Wife

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Done
> 
> Successful mediation. I'll get $7k a month for half the length of the marriage. Her initial offer was $500. 500. There was crying and screaming from her room. I felt bad as this is my wife and I love her, but she was finally being held accountable for really bad treatment of me.
> 
> She walked by at one point and mouthed the words "I'm sorry" through the glass wall. I just nodded my head.
> 
> *I get my dog!*. I traded away over $10k for that little ****er. Worth it every time.
> 
> When it was all said and done, it hurts like hell and I miss her. I suppose both will decrease with time. I still don't know WTF happened in our marriage. I guess the answer is she revealed her true self.
> 
> One day I will write a "how I handled it" thread if you think it might be useful.


Yes please do one day write the how I handled it thread. You handled it perfectly, even though the whole time you were very hurt and wished this all wasn’t happening. 

In the meantime, please keep posting here or over in the divorced section to get help as you recover from this. It will take some time.


----------



## stro

You should definitely post about how you got through it at some point. You’ve done a textbook job. 

I’m curious of you feel like you need closure from her. Not that she would offer it up but basically explanation from her of what the hell hapened. Or are you just content getting on with your life?


----------



## Dyokemm

Initial offer $500 a month.....

Final settlement of $7,000 per month.....

I guess she took one look at the evidence your lawyer presented and KNEW she was dead....caught red-handed.

And then it hit her that fighting would lead to full exposure......and an accompanying TOTAL humiliation in front of all friends and family when they saw physical proof of her disgusting behavior.

Glad for you she opted to accept a fair offer.....

Hope there is not a clause that would prevent you from exposing OM to his BW and job......DESTROY that POSOM for even daring to involve himself in turning your life upside down.....

That POS deserves everything you can send his way.


----------



## Marc878

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Done
> 
> Successful mediation. I'll get $7k a month for half the length of the marriage. Her initial offer was $500. 500. There was crying and screaming from her room. I felt bad as this is my wife and I love her, but she was finally being held accountable for really bad treatment of me.
> 
> Poor muffin. I wouldn't feel to bad for her. It's early yet but you'll reflect back later and be glad you got away.
> 
> She walked by at one point and mouthed the words "I'm sorry" through the glass wall. I just nodded my head.
> 
> Meaningless. Words don't mean much. Her actions were deplorable.
> 
> *I get my dog!*. I traded away over $10k for that little ****er. Worth it every time.
> 
> When it was all said and done, it hurts like hell and I miss her. I suppose both will decrease with time. I still don't know WTF happened in our marriage. I guess the answer is she revealed her true self.
> 
> Time and complete no contact will fix this
> 
> One day I will write a "how I handled it" thread if you think it might be useful.


Take care man you did great


----------



## honcho

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Done
> 
> Successful mediation. I'll get $7k a month for half the length of the marriage. Her initial offer was $500. 500. There was crying and screaming from her room. I felt bad as this is my wife and I love her, but she was finally being held accountable for really bad treatment of me.
> 
> She walked by at one point and mouthed the words "I'm sorry" through the glass wall. I just nodded my head.
> 
> *I get my dog!*. I traded away over $10k for that little ****er. Worth it every time.
> 
> When it was all said and done, it hurts like hell and I miss her. I suppose both will decrease with time. I still don't know WTF happened in our marriage. I guess the answer is she revealed her true self.
> 
> One day I will write a "how I handled it" thread if you think it might be useful.


Don't dwell on the wtf happened it only holds you back. Glad you got a good settlement and you got the dog. The ONLY thing my crazy ex didn't fight me on were the dogs....


----------



## Tatsuhiko

The glass window apology doesn't jibe with the screaming about having to pay maintenance. People who are truly sorry have no problem paying restitution their victim. I'd dismiss her words as meaningless. But it's not your problem anymore, thank God.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I think she got off very very lightly. You were married for 42 months and she pays 7K X 21 months. Less than $150K in total for what she cost you and based on what she earns!

Still well done on this and the dog!
Take care


----------



## MattMatt

@FloridaGuy123

Well done. 

As far as the OM goes, did she even tell him she was married?


----------



## Kamstel

Why the crying? Was this the first time she saw all the evidence you gathered?


----------



## Taxman

I am interested in the crying and screaming. Did her entitlement wash away when evidence was presented? Did her lawyer read her the riot act? I am always interested in the guilty party having their comeuppance.


----------



## Decorum

FloridaGuy123 said:


> She walked by at one point and mouthed the words "I'm sorry" through the glass wall. I just nodded my head.


I doubt the "I'm sorry" had much to do with her infidelity.

If @Taxman is right, her lawyer got in her face for making them both look bad, by her lying, greed, and dishonesty.

From her lawyer's perspective she is not much different that a business person who has been outed for cheating or embezzling on their business partner.

In the face of her lawyer's condemnation, with no place to hide, she had to admit, if only for a second, that she tried to screw you, and now everybody knew it.

Her POS tendencies were on public display.

"I'm sorry"- Oh goodness!


----------



## bandit.45

FloridaGuy123 said:


> I still don't know WTF happened in our marriage. I guess the answer is she revealed her true self.


Some people hide their true nature and once they get what they want out of a relationship they show their true colors. 

Some people start off one way, but after a time they (for whatever reason) become corrupted or lose their way. They change. People do change, and not always for good. 

It's hard to say where your STBXWW lands. I tend to think she is in the former category. She saw you as a comfortable provider, daddy-type, who she could leech off of while she got herself educated and situated, then once you were no longer necessary she moved on. 

Either way, she used you and being used and exploited is the worst feeling next to betrayal.


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## 3Xnocharm

@FloridaGuy123, I am so glad to read this outcome! So the screaming from the other room... was your evidence revealed to her? Was that in reaction to her actual income being clarified? Whatever it was, BRAVO!


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## Taxman

The “I’m sorry” face meant I’m sorry that you got evidence on me, and I’msorry that I have to pay you. Give her a year. The new shop boy relationship will fail, she is in a high infidelity situation and she affaired down. Those elements spell doom for this guy. This will be a repeating pattern for awhile. She will mess up big, mark my words, orrrrrrr, the fog will dissipate sometime in the future, and you FG will get the surprise of your life. That, I have seen as well. (Depending on circumstances) Old client, acrimonious divorce, she systematically bankrupted him, did all kinds of dirt, and he paid and restarted his life. He did well, went to school, became a hit in the financial district. Kept good friends had few good relationships. Completely recovered. His ex got wind of the new lifestyle. Guess who darkens his door. He was no idiot, he took her on an excursion thru his new world. She saw wealth and privilege. He got all of the sex that she denied him during the marriage. She really thought she had sunk her hooks til she casually mentioned that she should move back in. WRONG! He politely explained that this was all for her to see what she had lost. She slithered back into the hole from which she came.


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## 3putt

Taxman said:


> The “I’m sorry” face meant I’m sorry that you got evidence on me, and I’msorry that I have to pay you. Give her a year. The new shop boy relationship will fail, she is in a high infidelity situation and she affaired down. Those elements spell doom for this guy. This will be a repeating pattern for awhile. She will mess up big, mark my words, orrrrrrr, the fog will dissipate sometime in the future, and you FG will get the surprise of your life. That, I have seen as well. (Depending on circumstances) Old client, acrimonious divorce, she systematically bankrupted him, did all kinds of dirt, and he paid and restarted his life. He did well, went to school, became a hit in the financial district. Kept good friends had few good relationships. Completely recovered. His ex got wind of the new lifestyle. Guess who darkens his door. He was no idiot, he took her on an excursion thru his new world. She saw wealth and privilege. He got all of the sex that she denied him during the marriage. She really thought she had sunk her hooks til she casually mentioned that she should move back in. WRONG! He politely explained that this was all for her to see what she had lost. She slithered back into the hole from which she came.


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## oldshirt

so I'm curious, did the proof of her affair even matter at the end of the day? 

Did anyone involved in the negotiations even care?

I can see that she may or may not have been embarrassed, but did it really matter in a legal sense? 

Adultery is not illegal (in most states. I don't know about Fl) so I'm not sure how much impact infidelity or proof of infidelity really matters once the rubber meets the pavement in a legal proceeding. 

I think the nuts and bolts here is he supported her through her education at the expense of his own career during that time and now that she has the professional licensure and the income that goes with it, he is entitled to a certain degree of support for a certain amount of time. 

I work in the medical field and many courts do award support for the working spouse that supports the medical education of med students/residents during their training and then dump them once they get licensed and are earning the income. 

The only role I can see her infidelity playing into this is it would show that he had just cause to divorce her and that he himself was not the conman that schmoozed her up in school and then dumped her to get alimony after she became a high earner. 

I am curious as to how much of a role her infidelity actually played in the legal aspects of this case. 

I tend to believe that no one really cares who screwed who in the vast majority of cases.

FloridaGuy can you explain how much of a role her infidelity and your pictures and proof really played into your settlement at the end of the day?


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## Taxman

He is still my client and a good friend. His ex wife was a piece of work, from the get go. My dad and hers were in the same business, and the man was an absolute cut-throat. At one point he recognized me from the garage, knew immediately that I used to work for my Dad, and told his daughter not to associate with me, which meant she wanted my bud to take his business elsewhere. No thanks. We represent him and his business interests, and shortly his retirement.

FG is this an interim financial settlement, or are there other components yet to come? I would have bet that they would award you the costs of her medical education as well.


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## TDSC60

I think the projected spousal support award is based on the difference in income and the length of the marriage alone. 

Since a doctor's education/training is much longer than 3.5 years (length of the marriage), I don't think he expects to get any reimbursement based on the cost of her education.

Sounds like FG supported her during Residency and Specialization and moved to different cities to do so. Thus giving up his career(and established income) to support her's. It sucks, but I don't think that is considered in the settlement.


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## Wolfman1968

FloridaGuy123 said:


> Done
> 
> Successful mediation. I'll get $7k a month for half the length of the marriage. Her initial offer was $500. 500. There was crying and screaming from her room. I felt bad as this is my wife and I love her, but she was finally being held accountable for really bad treatment of me.
> 
> She walked by at one point and mouthed the words "I'm sorry" through the glass wall. I just nodded my head.
> 
> *I get my dog!*. I traded away over $10k for that little ****er. Worth it every time.
> 
> When it was all said and done, it hurts like hell and I miss her. I suppose both will decrease with time. I still don't know WTF happened in our marriage. I guess the answer is she revealed her true self.
> 
> One day I will write a "how I handled it" thread if you think it might be useful.


Well, you said you sacrificed a 6-figure business in order to move for her training. 

Do you and your lawyer think that this amount "makes you whole" for that loss....and for the loss of time/future expansion that the business should have had during those training years?

I'm not talking about getting revenge or being greedy or anything like that. I am talking about just a cold, dispassionate financial calculation.


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