# How to find the his/her needs balance?



## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

So it does seem like things have improved with my wife lately. I have focused more on my communication so that she understands that I am meeting her emotional needs. She is a tricky one in that she is a psychologist and could probably cross examine Manson and do ok. But anyway I have come to the realization that many of the things that have bothered her over the years were so petty that I really ought to just give it up. From the outside looking in you would think we were fighting about semantics and tone half the time. Basically I am tough on myself and expect everyone else to have thick skin too --- well that is not a good plan. 

But hey I do want to be a better man and why not communicate more clearly. Hell I love her and do not want to waste my time arguing. BUT - I am a bit concerned that my renewed focus on meeting this need of hers - which essentially is for me to always be the supportive and never angry husband (hell who likes angry) might backfire a bit as it has before. See I am like most of you guys I NEED SEX. I guess she will never totally get it because she is low drive. But after a week or ten days of no sex I struggle to be the guy that I know I should always be because I can't for the life of me figure out why she can't help me with this one thing. 

She says well when we are getting along we do have more sex. Well maybe marginally (instead of 1-2 times per month it is 2-4 times) SO I am stuck wondering is there any way she might have an epiphany as well and step up to the plate. She says she needs more emotional connection for sex but again that has never really translated. And last time I really focused on connecting with her emotional she actually withdrew telling me i just don't trust it. Well after a few months I became resentful and thus the cycle continued. 

The thing is I am done really asking for sex. DONE. And we have had sex a few times lately in which we were just talking at night and hence she had her connection and then we had sex. But the thing is we do not always have the time for that and sometimes I just want her to want me. What you all think?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Married Man Sex Life


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

There is no "balance" in meeting needs.
You need to meet her needs in the way and to the level that she needs, and she needs to meet your needs in the way and to the level that you need. YOu cannot be successful in marriage by overriding or ignoring what it is you need.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

_The thing is I am done really asking for sex. DONE. And we have had sex a few times lately in which we were just talking at night and hence she had her connection and then we had sex. But the thing is we do not always have the time for that and sometimes I just want her to want me. What you all think? _

My opinion only, but I think if you stayed the course on this for awhile, and she felt more trust and comfort, she may move to a level of more sex, more initiating on her part, etc. (It can take time of seeing repeated results so she trusts it is for real)

And I would also say read the Married Mans Sex Life Primer.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

She's got trust the change is here to stay and not a ploy to just get more sex.....

Like you I'm the HD she is LD, I'm reading a book called "When Your Sex Drives Dont Match" by Sandra Pertot, very good so far about half way thru, also another is "The Passionaote Marrige" by David Schnarch. Both of these books you can give you some insight on how to think a little differently....and of course the tried and true Married Mans Sex Life Primer.........


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

Well thanks for all the input. I known that without change on her part either inspired by me or not is what it is going to take. Merely continuing to meet her emotional needs has never really worked out. Sure we might have slightly more sex but seriously this is not what I am after. On the days we have sex it is usually very late at might after our kids go to bed. They are asleep by 8 or 9 and after a few hours of talk or snuggling she is still don't rush me when I reach down to touch her legs. It becomes exhausting and then finally we have great sex by then it is almost always midnight. She states clearly she has to feel that connection first and starting with hints early in the day even romantic stuff seems to be like pressure for her. I swear I don't think she has any idea how unreasonable she is being ..... And reason does not work she just says well I don't care what other people do this is what I need. But somehow asserting my needs has no effect unless I threatened to leave I guess but that is not going to happen. Getting resentful and withdrawing is no good either. I think she does need more girlfriends as it does seem I have to meet to many needs of hers plus maybe they would actually talk about sex and just maybe she might see the light. But essentially she had no need to change at this point. I need to create that without being a jerk. Or even asking that doesnt work and just being alpha a d expecting it etc is not very effective either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

deejov said:


> My opinion only, but I think if you stayed the course on this for awhile, and she felt more trust and comfort, she may move to a level of more sex, more initiating on her part, etc. (It can take time of seeing repeated results so she trusts it is for real).


Disagree - strongly.

It's more likely (based on what the OP said) that this will lead to more of the same from her, based on him projecting acceptance of the current situation. She'll think "he is treating me great so he must be okay with this - I don't need to do more".

She had made it clear she is stepping it up ("we are having more sex"). This to me says that she has made the adjustment she feels is appropriate for his stepped-up attention to her needs. There is no indication of an intent to do more / better.

The OP needs to express in no uncertain terms (1) what his needs are, (2) he knows his needs are as important as hers, and (3) gettting his needs met is a priority for him. She is free to treat him as an equal or not, and he will respond accordingly.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

veryconfusedhusband said:


> Merely continuing to meet her emotional needs has never really worked out. They are asleep by 8 or 9 and after a few hours of talk or snuggling she is still don't rush me when I reach down to touch her legs. It becomes exhausting and then finally we have great sex by then it is almost always midnight. She states clearly she has to feel that connection first and starting with hints early in the day even romantic stuff seems to be like pressure for her.


Well, I'll be honest and say your wife seems high maintenance and LD sexually. What's unreasonable here is not so much her preferences, but the way in which she sets her satisfaction as the absolute minimum before you get anything. She is not open to your advances and insists that you wait around until she feels like it. When she does not you are paying the price for something you cannot control. Can I safely assume that there are also times she finally becomes open to sex but one or both of you are too tired for sex because of the time spent on her, and that she does not issue rainchecks on those occassions?

You are correct that you cannot hold her to the high standards to which you hold yourself. But that cuts both ways - she cannot hold you to a higher standard than she holds herself. You simply do not have to do anything that feels out of line with respect to the effort she puts into the relationship.

At the end of the day, you should address this not by attacking her needs, but by asserting yours as equal to hers. She needs to know that the best case under her increased activity rate (1x per week) does not meet your need, and that you need to work together to strike a better balance.

There is nothing wrong being enthusiastically sexual (even when not in the mood) out of respect for the marriage; some would say you should treat your spouse this way. There is nothing wrong with working to improve her physical desire (resolving any hangups, checking for physical issues, or even masturbating just to get herself started). You may simply have to decide whether the extra effort you put in is worth the payoff.

Keep in mind that this is not a situation where she cannot have sex with you more. This is a situation where her priorities are the obstacle, not her ability. She can and should work towards striking a better balance between your respective needs. This is the approach you should take in dealing with this issue.


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

Yes I have told her about my needs but she acts as this is a bit out of her control like she just has to feel it etc. a d can't have sex just to satisfy a quota. Yes it is selfish and she would practically admit that but she says sorry this is how I am. And since I am in love and not leaving I don't haves leverage. If she had a higher drive this would be much easier I am sure but she just is not that into seeing sex more than a few times a month. I just need to find a way to pull back emotionally without pissing her off cause as it is now I am disappointed myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

DTO said:


> Disagree - strongly.
> 
> It's more likely (based on what the OP said) that this will lead to more of the same from her, based on him projecting acceptance of the current situation. She'll think "he is treating me great so he must be okay with this - I don't need to do more".
> 
> ...


So I will take the middle position. You do need to give your changes some time. She needs to know that they are for real, and that you will not fall back into your old habits.

But she does not get forever either. If after a reasonable time, such as a month or so, there is no movement on her part, DTO's plan is spot on.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Why does she need to be "in the mood" to have sex with the man she supposedly loves and plans to spend the rest of her life with? Is sex with you that horrible? Does she excuse you if you are not "in the mood" to communicate more than once a week and stay silent to her for the other 6 days? Give and take means GIVE *AND* TAKE.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

veryconfusedhusband said:


> I need to create that without being a jerk. Or even asking that doesnt work and just being alpha a d expecting it etc is not very effective either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's clear that you approach intimacy with her in a way that seeks to affirm her needs, and maybe she can't even really explain why she pushes away like she does. What is sometimes hard to understand in threads like this is whether a woman like your wife tends to respond more negatively to some approaches or in certain environments than others. For instance, when she is receptive, does it tend to be under very speciific situations, like the weekend? Also, at what part of the intimacy does she tend to push away? You make a reference to being more alpha, but I would tend to interpret this as you moving very agressively for a passionate kiss, and later more, with the assumption that she would never dream of stopping you. What I'm getting at is that if you have tried every approach, from patient and slow intimacy, to aggressive alpha, and she rejects every type, then it would be hard to take this as anything other than a rejection of you.

I don't remember where my wife and I read this, but I remember an article about how that some of the dysfunctional responses with a person who has been sexually abused can also find their way into a normal relationship if one of the partners does not process resentment in a healthy way. I'll probably annoy you by suggesting things that you've probably already tried, but the article suggested looking for some common themes in the way we move into sex as a couple, and changing these deliberately until new patterns can be established. For instance, if you established a routine early in the relationship where the two of you were intimate for a time, and sometimes it progressed to sex, but other times it didn't, that branching off point becomes a fulcrum. For her, that point can evoke a negative response purely out of habit. A different approach might be to spend some time in intimacy earlier, but then go about your own business for a while every time, and reconnect later. Or, if you've gotten out of the habit of being aggressive, give it a try, even if it is nothing more than what it takes to get a response out of her.

I know it is more likely that you've tried every approach. Still, if you've never taken a deeper look at the ingrained patterns, it might be worth a look. Just wondering if she has gotten so into the habit of rejecting you that what was once inspired by some resentment in the past has just become cemented into an instinctive negative response.


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

Hailen -

Yeah I do know when she will be receptive. It occurs around 2-3 times a month on a weekend night after a few hours of talking after the kids go to bed. Here is the kicker she only works two days a week -- I could care less about staying up a bit late on a work night in fact she often does it watching TV. I think these nights are ok because in her mind she is meeting the bare minimum of my needs. Oh it also cannot be too close to her 8 day period or just after so there goes a 1/3 of the month. 

The thing is I love her and I do not want a divorce or even to suggest that -- I know with her that would have negative consequences due to insecurities etc. -- she is not crazy but no wife wants to hear that. Yeah I am at a total loss and at this point just trying to focus on myself and hope she figures it out. It is the classic chicken and egg dynamic with us but she fails to see that she owns half of the problem.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

veryconfusedhusband said:


> Hailen -
> 
> Yeah I do know when she will be receptive. It occurs around 2-3 times a month on a weekend night after a few hours of talking after the kids go to bed. Here is the kicker she only works two days a week -- I could care less about staying up a bit late on a work night in fact she often does it watching TV. I think these nights are ok because in her mind she is meeting the bare minimum of my needs. Oh it also cannot be too close to her 8 day period or just after so there goes a 1/3 of the month.
> 
> The thing is I love her and I do not want a divorce or even to suggest that -- I know with her that would have negative consequences due to insecurities etc. -- she is not crazy but no wife wants to hear that. Yeah I am at a total loss and at this point just trying to focus on myself and hope she figures it out. It is the classic chicken and egg dynamic with us but she fails to see that she owns half of the problem.


I understand how you feel, but it does seem like she views her sex drive as an external entity that just descends upon her when it chooses, and you feel that you have no choice but to concede.

Sexuality can be more closely tied to an intentional choice. For instance, if she somehow saw that your death was imminent, yet you were healthy now, she would very much desire to take advantage of every moment together, and want you to exit this life feeling fulfilled. Along the same lines, if she saw other women circling around, and knew that you were not even interested at the moment, she would very likely flip that same switch she did when the two of you were dating.

Maybe you fear that the only way to trigger this switch within her is your potential threat of divorce, but it doesn't necessarily have to be so. Right now, her needs are obviously elevated above your own, but isn't it likely that a part of your motivation for doing so is the hope of more sex? Give her what is genuine desire to be together, and let her draw in the rest.

Women are often very intuitive when it comes to noticing that the dynamic in a relationship has changed. It doesn't take negative actions on your part to get her to see that you've moved her from this elevated plane to a level plane. You can do that and still be loving, but just treating it for what it is: a realization that there are dimishing returns in your relationship. The answer maybe isn't in ignoring her, or acting aloof. Maybe the answer is in finding personal validation within yourself, through a rich life necessitated by her distance. Find new interests, and explore them. Be clear when asked that you are filling an emptiness in your life. Its okay to tell her that time with her only follows her rules, so you need a time where your rules matter. You are simply accepting defeat, and adapting. You can decide what portion of "her time" is fair to you, and let it stay her time, but stake out a claim on your own time too, without making it seem like a spiteful attempt to get even. A friend of mine accomplished this through a motorcycle hobby, although he did so initially because he had given up on having a sex life. Then, his wife became the pursuer.

Simply put, she has life on her terms. Why would she want to change? She'll only want it to change when she realizes that your needs have to be important also. What may surprise her is that she actually begins to desire this intimacy because she knows that it is the vehicle to a fulfilling marriage FOR HER.


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

Ok Thanks Hailen that is what I have been doing just because life at home is simply boring. Going forward I think I just need to focus on what makes me happy and hopefully the change you outlined will occur. The only tricking thing there is due to the fact that our children are pretty young and I just can't be gone pursuing my life because they are really connected to me ....I am no perfect dad but I am a good one and pretty connected into their daily routine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Halien said:


> Women are often very intuitive when it comes to noticing that the dynamic in a relationship has changed. It doesn't take negative actions on your part to get her to see that you've moved her from this elevated plane to a level plane. You can do that and still be loving, but just treating it for what it is: a realization that there are dimishing returns in your relationship. The answer maybe isn't in ignoring her, or acting aloof. Maybe the answer is in finding personal validation within yourself, through a rich life necessitated by her distance. Find new interests, and explore them. Be clear when asked that you are filling an emptiness in your life. Its okay to tell her that time with her only follows her rules, so you need a time where your rules matter. You are simply accepting defeat, and adapting. You can decide what portion of "her time" is fair to you, and let it stay her time, but stake out a claim on your own time too, without making it seem like a spiteful attempt to get even. A friend of mine accomplished this through a motorcycle hobby, although he did so initially because he had given up on having a sex life. Then, his wife became the pursuer.


I was personally amazed out how very small changes communciated this to my wife. 

Two years ago, if we were watching a show together and I saw that my wife's glass was empty, I would have voluntarily gotten up and asked what I could get for her, regardless of whether I needed anything. I also would have taken her empty snack plate and cleaned up after her. At the time, our sex life was pretty poor (for various reasons), and I was involved in too many covert contracts with me doing things in exchange for sex.

About a year ago, I took a different approach and quit doing that. She is an adult and can pick up after herself. If I was getting myself something, I would offer, but if I was fine, I did nothing if her glass was empty. She asked a couple of times if I would get up and get her something, I either said "no thanks" or told her to call the butler. She was irked at first, but then something weird happened: she started volunteering to get me stuff. She asked if I needed anything when she was getting up to get something. She was appreciative when I did sometimes voluntarily get up to get her something, and she did the same for me.

There were a lot of other things that we both did that helped our relationship and our sex life, but I was amazed to see how clearly this one developed right before my eyes. I don't think it took more than a couple of weeks before the first time she got up and volunteered. I don't know if it was conscious, but she clearly picked up on what was happening.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I was personally amazed out how very small changes communciated this to my wife.
> 
> Two years ago, if we were watching a show together and I saw that my wife's glass was empty, I would have voluntarily gotten up and asked what I could get for her, regardless of whether I needed anything. I also would have taken her empty snack plate and cleaned up after her. At the time, our sex life was pretty poor (for various reasons), and I was involved in too many covert contracts with me doing things in exchange for sex.
> 
> ...


For me, it wasn't as much about the sexual part of the relationship as an awareness that I needed to go the extra mile if I wanted to build a marriage that could become bigger than the two of us individually. My wife tends to be very practical, and critical in the past, but I ultimately realized that she just couldn't envision the marriage the same. 

I think that when we all contemplate the gulf between us, it is easy to think of finding balance through negative actions, while forgetting that the other partner is aware of very subtle signals that can be just as powerful in affecting change. In other words, if they sense their partner drifting away, or even sense that the partner has turned inward to find the missing contentment, it is very natural for them to turn on whatever level of intimacy is needed to pull the person back. But if they sense that the change in the dynamic is more of a 'pushing away', or anger driven decision, they might just as soon trigger their internal resentment. You just don't want to give them any handles to latch on in finding anger. So, when they ask if they did something wrong, or if you are angry, you're only looking to fill an emptiness inside. Nothing changes in your love for them - its just an intellectual awareness that the amount of energy that is currently being put into the relationship is just leaving you empty.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

veryconfusedhusband said:


> Ok Thanks Hailen that is what I have been doing just because life at home is simply boring. Going forward I think I just need to focus on what makes me happy and hopefully the change you outlined will occur. The only tricking thing there is due to the fact that our children are pretty young and I just can't be gone pursuing my life because they are really connected to me ....I am no perfect dad but I am a good one and pretty connected into their daily routine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can involve your kids some of the time. It doesn't mean you have to just disappear from the house on your own all the time. 

You can take your kids to the park or out for the afternoon at the fun-plex, etc. on your own sometimes.

And, you can make some time for yourself - to go to the gym or a run, pursue a new or old hobby, take a night out every so often to meet up with your buddies.

As well, like Halien and TAG have mentioned - just not jumping up and doing every little thing. Pull your equal weight in the household and with the kids, but don't put your wife up on a pedestal.

I know that one of her biggest complaints was that you would often give her the silent treatment. One of the things you can do is change your whole demeanour regarding that - when you feel like you are going to go in to a sulk or give her the silent treatment it would be a good time to instead remain upbeat, somewhat aloof/detached, and just go work on one of your hobbies. Continue to maintain that upbeat but detached vibe, instead of the be-grudged, silent treatments and you may also notice some improvements.

And I hate to say it - but as long as you have an attitude of "I will never leave her, I love her" - she's got a very important part of your anatomy there in her purse up there with her on her pedestal. YOU have to be able to get to the point where you pull her off of that or elevate yourself to the same level.

Best wishes.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> You can involve your kids some of the time. It doesn't mean you have to just disappear from the house on your own all the time.
> 
> You can take your kids to the park or out for the afternoon at the fun-plex, etc. on your own sometimes.
> 
> ...


Enchantment touched on some very good points. Its easy to make it sound like the goal is manipulating your wife, so I avoided the part about the children. As a father, it should be natural to seek out ways that you can really impact your children's lives outside of the time that your wife is around. For me, it was taking my son camping on a reservation for a sister tribe of my people on my native american side. We even "camped" in the den, and had our own "olympics" in the yard, built home made telescopes and similar things that gave them good memories with me. I shared my love of literature with them, and my daughter was published twice before she began college, and our son ... well he enjoys reading, and writes hilarious poems that have been featured in a local youth magazine. My wife was free to join these times together, but there is a sense created where she feels like she is actively working to engage in my world.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> "A friend of mine accomplished this through a motorcycle hobby, although he did so initially because he had given up on having a sex life. Then, his wife became the pursuer."
> 
> 
> I hope this works out for them, but I wonder...is she pursuing him because she really loves, values and wants HIM, or she just likes the thrill of the chase and the sense of power that would come with his renewal of interest in her. When men have to resort to extreme means to have a basic marital need met, it's not good.
> ...


I guess it wasn't very clear. He gave up on having a sexual relationship with her, but loved her too much to divorce. She feared that this could be the first step that would lead him to another woman. At first, he rejected her because he thought it was an act of desperation only, and it actually tipped him to think about divorce. It was obvious that another woman was pursuing him - he worked for me and she always found an excuse to be there. I gave him 'the talk' about sexual harassment and he said that he could never have feelings for anyone but his wife, though. His wife asked for a year to prove herself. Five years have passed, and he claims that it is still strong, but he is nothing like he was before. She has to actively engage if she doesn't want to be left behind on his regular trips. The realist in me thinks there is more to it. Technically, now that he recently took an early retirement, he is a millionaire since his stock options are vested.

This guy didn't deliberately set out to improve sex in his marriage. That wasn't the point. It just came as a surprise to him that once his wife was no longer his obsession, she noticed. The point in my reply is that all of the energies invested so far are only ensuring that she knows that "this little issue" won't result in divorce. But why does divorce or negatitivity have to be the only alternative? The threat can be one option, but since you're clearly not comfortable with that route, it may be worth trying to change the 'give and take' balance, which is currently all in her favor.


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

All good points and as far as the kids go I spend a ton of time with them. On the weekends we have a pretty good balance already of us all together or her taking kids somewhere so I can have time or vice versa. But I do think on some of the weekends I overdo my part thInking I can take away the I am too tired excuse. But that has only a marginal effect and then just pisses me off. As far as Enchantment's comments I think you put it very well but I have never done the silent treatment. Or maybe I have some? Not sure exactly what that means but I do struggle with being chatty and interested in connecting with her when she has continued to reject my advances plus when talking to her lightly I run he risk of pissing her off. One of her pet peaves for me is that I don't listen properly or miss something. After a good day at home yesterday she came into the bedroom in the evening and said something I was reading an article online and missed part of what she said. I knew I missed it and as she she walked out of the room I called to her "what what was that" later she came back in the room and I told her hey I just missed it sorry about that. She launched into a whole diatribe about it and I just let her finish. Sure this is a legitimate issue for her to raise and I have really improved in this area. It sometimes when I am reading I just don't hear every single word spoke at me. Anyway after a few minutes I just turned and told her, "You are going to have to stop picking at me." To my surprise she just said "ok". I think deep down she knows she has not been fair to me. I caught her agreeing with me over a minor communication issue that I had with my son. She wanted to pin his failure to remember something on me even after I explained I asked him about get clearly. She kept at it saying "well you should have said this" etc etc. I did. It concede just told her look I asked him clearly he needs to learn to be responsible. Finally she agreed and said yeah be does need to do that. So in these areas I think I now his to proceed. Sure hope that translated into a better marriage. No I will never leave I am in love and I could not imagine not being with my kids everyday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Halien said:


> My wife was free to join these times together, but there is a sense created where *she feels like she is actively working to engage in my world*.


I think this last part really sums up my experience. While I mentioned the sex, there was a general feeling that we were not connecting. By taking her off the pedestal and treating her as my partner on a team, it gave her the opportunity engage with me and our marriage. People tend to appreciate things more when they have earned them, as opposed to when those things are just given to them. Because my wife had to put some effort into getting my attention, it made it more meaningful when we did connect together.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Ok. Turn the freakin TV off. Start by actually scheduling intimate time. This should be preceeded by what is essentially foreplay throughout the day. What I mean by this is talking, non sexual touching and playful sexual touching. Kissing even.

With the talking done and the kids in bed, you now are ready to have some close time. TV off. Try some candles. Shower together. Enjoy touching each other. Scrub her back. Let her shampoo your hair and scrub your back. Give her a full body loving sensual massage. Take a long time. Enjoy the inimacy. Actually give a good massage. Enjoy the feel and sight of her naked body in the candlelight.

Then start with Oral sex on her. Again take your time. Be loving and passionate. After she climaxes a few times ( maybe she is not multi-orgasmic ), then just take her. Like you are lost in her sexuality. Be on the edge of control. Show her you want her so bad you must have her and can't control keeping this inside. Do some cuddling. Tough for me sometimes as I generally want to go to sleep. 

Do not make massages always a prelude to sex. Do these at other times. 

Also it is critical that you have a lot of quality time together. A minum of say fifteen hours a week. make this a priority. Do things together. She likes to have conversation with you to be ready for initmacy.

Repeat as required.


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

Entropy I love your suggestion but that is not going to work. I could care less about tv she watches it more but scheduling sex is just too much pressure for her. She believes it should just spontaneously happen but from my view it is far from spontaneous as it follows her schedule and only after all of her emotional needs have been met. I dont think we have had sex without hours of discussion or date night or whatever in years. She is so low drive that to think ahead with candles an all that is not going to happen in that way. But I have started down this path already I don't watch much tv with her anymore cause I would rather go for a run or read whatever but I do think I will buy some candles as she loves them and I will tell her we can use them some night in the bedroom. Yeah they will collect dust but she will see them on our nightstand everyday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

Oh and she does. It like for me to perform oral sex on her very often at all. And we spend way more than 15 hours a week together we do it all. Kids homework, dr. Appointments, walks to the park etc etc. As far as massages go I know she would live that but she would have to agree to give me one too. Of course I would love to massage her but not so excited about it cause it would be just more of her getting something and me nothing. In fact if I brought up a full massage she would say ok but I dont want to feel pressure to have sex. I don't even want to hear that. She clearly lacks desire and drive for me or quite likely for sex at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I understand. It's funny how much some wives tend to be like kids in this area...the kid doesn't really want or value the toy but when they realize some other kid wants it...Oh Boy, WATCH OUT.
> 
> .


Many men are like this as well. It's a people thing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What is find courious is that there seems to be only one need for each of you that is being discussed and worked on. The way you describe this is that for her a long conversation is the first level of foreplay.

You say that she watches tv a lot in the evening during the week. What do you do while she is watching TV?


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

LadyFrog well that is the main issue for sure and I am trying to stay on topic so I don't put you all to sleep. In the evening I will sometimes watch with her or just go online or read. Usually I do a bit of all but less tv. She usually goes online with FB for awhile or Pinterest then turns that off and watches tv. Sometimes I sit in bed or the other room from her and occasionally will send an IM message or FB chat to see what she is doing. I can sort of gauge her mood from those responses but unfortunately realized that flirting that way is almost always met with no response or worse some type of rejection that makes me feel stupid. This has recently extended to texting too and I am not talking about explicit nasty fun stuff but just anything that implies us having sex. Now if I send her an artistic picture that is explicit but romantic she might comment by saying yeah that is hot. But that's it....and I am just done fishing. Sucks cause I don't mind chasing a bit and I love to be romantic but I just can't anymore cause it is not coming back. And I don't just mean sex. I can buy her nice little things she wants or download some new music whatever but she will not reciprocate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

veryconfusedhusband said:


> Yes I have told her about my needs but she acts as this is a bit out of her control like she just has to feel it etc. a d can't have sex just to satisfy a quota. Yes it is selfish and she would practically admit that but she says sorry this is how I am. And since I am in love and not leaving I don't haves leverage. If she had a higher drive this would be much easier I am sure but she just is not that into seeing sex more than a few times a month. I just need to find a way to pull back emotionally without pissing her off cause as it is now I am disappointed myself.


Ok, two problems with your approach here:

(1) She can indeed have sex with you; she has no physical limitations or such (does she?) She simply chooses to not have sex with you, and claims "this is the way I am" so you do not challenge her to improve. She de-prioritizes your needs in favor of her own. This is as much a respect issue as a sex issue.

I can't find it at the moment, but there is a post from a wise lady who chooses to take a "servant heart" view to sex with her husband. Maybe your wife should read that.

(2) Why would your wife be pissed off if you pull back a bit? She knows the lack of sex really bothers you (unless she thinks you are exaggerating). She is consciously putting herself over you, and she should tolerate you doing the same.

If, despite the circumstances, your wife would be pissed off if you pulled back (to save your sanity), then the follow up question is "why do you care so much?" You need to muster the courage to stand up to her and insist that someone needs to put you first, that if she cannot prioritize you then you will prioritize yourself, and that she can deal with it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I understand. It's funny how much some wives tend to be like kids in this area...the kid doesn't really want or value the toy but when they realize some other kid wants it...Oh Boy, WATCH OUT.


Or, she does value him, but not in the way he needs. Perhaps she sees him as someone to pay the bills, take out the trash, etc. IOW, he's a means to an end, not a partner.

So, she feels her security threatened, and she lashes out because it's easier to ward somebody off with a bad vibe than to actually treat him better and make it so he would choose to stay with her.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

DTO said:


> If, despite the circumstances, your wife would be pissed off if you pulled back (to save your sanity), then the follow up question is "why do you care so much?" You need to muster the courage to stand up to her and insist that someone needs to put you first, that if she cannot prioritize you then you will prioritize yourself, and that she can deal with it.


:iagree:

Not only does this give you a potential opening to explain that you are looking out for yourself because she is not wanting the job, it is also a reaction from her. Based on your posts, she is not engaged at all in your relationship. Her getting mad shows that she at least cares a little about it - maybe not much or in a healthy way, but she feels something. If you don't get a reaction when you pull away, that unfortunately will tell you something as well.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I agree with what others have said. This is less a sex issue than a respect and intimacy issue. How about getting rid of all the distractions? Cancel cable tv. Unplug the internet. Make it so the two of you can either interact or sit and stare at each other.

My wife and I disconnected the television some time ago. We use it to watch a movie once in a while but that's it...no boob tube for us. We also have restrictions on internet usage. I do tend to post quite a bit here on TAM but much of the time my wife is sitting here with me and we discuss the issues before I post. The rest of the time I'm here (like now) she is not home so it isn't interfering with "us" time.

Just a couple of simple suggestions.


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## veryconfusedhusband (Jul 3, 2010)

Thanks for the responses I am working toward making sure better understands that while I love her and want her I need more space from her when she does not reciprocate to me. I think she wants me to be perfect. For her that means always helpful, present, and upbeat. I get that. But she needs to understand that will not be the case to the degree she wants if she is so unwilling to share her passion for the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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