# Support and encouragement for the unfaithful partner who truly wants to repair...



## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

I'd like this thread to be for those of us who have been unfaithful and truly want to rebuild our marriages. 

A little background...My husband just discovered my 13 year, long-distance, internet, phone and physical affair. I've ended the other relationship and want nothing more than to rebuild my marriage and make my husband happy again.

I've read a lot of the strings on this forum and have also read many books on the topic of "post-affair". While I fully understand the devestation we have caused to our spouses, I feel it would be good for we WSs to have a place to safely vent, share, ask advice, etc. I implore other users to keep bitterness and judgement about "cheaters" to the other threads.

Anything constructive is welcome here. We WSs have a long, hard road to travel, and it would be nice to have support and company along the way.


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

So I'll be the first with an idea that helped my H and I through the first few weeks. We were both very stressed and not sleeping well. I hated his not sleeping as he had to function at work every day. I decided to give him a back massage before bed on particularly stressful nights. It was gentle and relaxing for him, and a way to have the physical closeness I think we both needed without being awkward.

In the process of relaxing him I found that the quiet room, dim lights and rhythm of massaging his back calmed me as well. It turned out to be one of the "love deposit" things that benefitted us both.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

We also have another thread about this for disloyal spouses:  Thread to Help Disloyals Figure Out How to Get Out of the Fog. We may want to ask Chris H. (the owner here) if we can set up a subcategory for Loyal Spouses and Disloyals, because sometimes when Loyals are really hurting they'll vent--and understandably--and sometimes Disloyals need a place to "talk it out" and a way to make up their minds.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I am not a WS, but I know there are a few things my husband and I did to get back to a good place. The little things, like telling each other " I love you", holding hands, sending flirty texts, etc. All those things helped bring back some of the closeness.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I made up a "rule" for myself that any time I thought of the OM, I'd send my spouse an IM, text, or email instead. Anything I would have done for OM (like send him a poem)...I did that for my spouse instead. That way I was putting that energy INTO my marriage.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

“sophiasfriend” you have been lying to and deceiving the man you say you love for 13 years and because of that your credibility and integrity is absolutely shot to pieces.

What I don’t get is how on earth can you expect anybody to believe what you say now?

How can anybody believe your motivations are moral, honourable and sound when they haven’t been for the past 13 years?

Surely deception has become a part of your life?

It wouldn’t be so bad for me if I read empathy, compassion, remorse and regret in your words, tone or demeanour for what you have done to your husband. But for the life of me I can’t see it.

And now you post seemingly expecting empathy and understanding with your situation. And in a way you do that by saying “What a good girl I am now, I give my husband a massage so he can get some sleep” …. So he can go to work the next day!!!!!!

Bob


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

For those who are Disloyal Spouses, please bear in mind that our actions have hurt our spouse, and often other Loyal Spouses will take out THEIR hurt on us. For example, it's common for an LS to come on and completely vent at some other DS, placing their own resentment on you. I would say please try to ignore it for now, and if you decide, as I have, that a person here is too toxic to read anymore, there is the option to "ignore" that person. To do that you would click on their user name, go to their Personal Profile, click the "User Lists" drop-down arrow, and select "Add to Ignore List." Then you can see that there is a post, but it shows as blank, and you would not have to expose yourself to that person's caustic remarks. Hey--fact is that we don't all agree or get along, and as long as it's respectful, people have a right to their own opinion. I just have an equal right to not expose myself to vitriol. LOL 

I can't speak for everyone, sophiasfriend, but I appreciate the fact that you started this thread. There are too few places for a DS to go where they can be honest and NOT have someone pounce. I appreciate the fact you made the decision to end your affair and now you're reaching out to try to help others who are struggling with this. I appreciate that you ARE being honest rather than clamming up, because a place is needed where DS's can ask REAL questions and get REAL answers and help in safety. I hope you'll keep trying and if someone hurts you, just ignore them and carry on.


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## blueyes (Mar 25, 2010)

Sorry to say it but you will get little support on this site if you r the DS. Most will be nasty to you and thats being kind. You can try love shack, they have a section in there for the wayward spouses, that you don't get ripped over the coals in. I know I'm in the same boat,so I don't usually say to much anymore in the way of asking for help on here. Good for you and best of luck.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

RWB~

This is literally, purely my personal opinion and nothing else--but I was also a little surprised like you: after all a 13 year affair is pretty darn long, whether it's EA or PA. I mean if a couple were married 20+ years, an affair of that length would be a majority of that marriage. Thus it seems reasonable to me to ask if 13 years was accurate or maybe a weird typo (like it should have been 1/3 year or one 3-year affair... or something). Making sure to have all the facts is a good idea. AND if it truly was a 13 year affair, it would probably have been a pretty long-term thing--ending that would really be tough! I have to admit an affair for 13 years is fairly unusual.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Thirteen years is a way of life and longer than a lot of marriages.

My questions are sincere. Sophiasfriend doesn’t seem able to answer them. Maybe she doesn’t have the answers herself or maybe she doesn’t see the importance of them.

Just maybe personal credibility and integrity have no value for her. And maybe she is totally without empathy.

Bob


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

It took 13 YEARS for you to come clean and for him to DISCOVER this? 
13 YEARS?!?!

I have a sneaking suspicion that you weren't the only one in the marriage getting some action on the side.

You two deserve each other!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

F-102 said:


> It took 13 YEARS for you to come clean and for him to DISCOVER this?
> 13 YEARS?!?!
> 
> I have a sneaking suspicion that you weren't the only one in the marriage getting some action on the side.
> ...


Sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction.

I have a friend who’s husband had a 13 year affair. It quite literally broke her when she found out. She’s with a very good man though.

I’ve another friend who’s husband had an affair for over 20 years. That broke her as well and took her a few years with two different therapists to recover from it.

I think Sophiasfriend is living on another planet and she hasn’t seen it as yet. I do feel sorry for her husband.

I think it very unfair though and without foundation as far as I can see to accuse her husband of the same thing.

Bob


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

wow, thats the same amount of years my wife was disloyal. its wierd. For us, she was on and off with different men. 

Hey, my wife is thinking about signing up to TAM ("the guys wife")
I have shared some of my posts and she has seen my original thread, but I think she not into the form kind of thing. She actualy signed up but never responded to the email that gets you going.

Whats your take?


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## moeman (Aug 12, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> I made up a "rule" for myself that any time I thought of the OM, I'd send my spouse an IM, text, or email instead. Anything I would have done for OM (like send him a poem)...I did that for my spouse instead. That way I was putting that energy INTO my marriage.


I have made it quite clear to my W that for me to get over her EA is for her to do things like you mention here. She tells me it's childish and no matter how much I tell her that these work for me she doesn't want to follow through. I don't think she wants out but can't understand her resistance. Can you please explain this to me?

Thanks,
M.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Hey, my wife is thinking about signing up to TAM ("the guys wife")
> I have shared some of my posts and she has seen my original thread, but I think she not into the form kind of thing. She actualy signed up but never responded to the email that gets you going.
> 
> Whats your take?


That would be great! I'd love to see that happen way more often than it does!


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

I too like others wondered about the 13yrs and how t'was
discovered and maybe Hubby is not so innocent either kinda
contingencies.

i'm not looking to rip ya a new one sophia, tho' i may ask u a 
tough question or two and come off as such.

i think its great/good u opened this up for discussion for those
of us who'd like to know/understand/get a peek into the mind
of a DS/cheater.

i'll write further when i see u respond perhaps to the others
who've posted replies already to ya. for it seems some have
come on here to TAM, started a thread, and never made it
back to answer/converse with other posters questions/replies.

shalom...............


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## blueyes (Mar 25, 2010)

Do you people blame her for not answeing your questions? I rest my case, look at most of the reply's you people have given to her, not very nice. At least she finally came clean and wants to talk about it. Please quit picking people apart it is hard for everyone involved in EA/PA's. Remember there is 2 sides to every story then the truth. It also has to be trouble in a marriage for anything to start up and that also takes 2.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

blueyes said:


> Do you people blame her for not answeing your questions? I rest my case, look at most of the reply's you people have given to her, not very nice. At least she finally came clean and wants to talk about it. Please quit picking people apart it is hard for everyone involved in EA/PA's. Remember there is 2 sides to every story then the truth. It also has to be trouble in a marriage for anything to start up and that also takes 2.


This is a truly genuine question Blueyes. It really is!

How does a person who has been deceitful and covers their deceits with lies and denials and blames somebody else for their behaviour stop being that sort of person?

Because as sure as the sun comes up in the morning the single biggest thing a DS has to do is to regain the trust of their spouse. Now how do you do that?

How do you regain your credibility and your integrity with your husband?

What plans do you have to do those very things?

Answer that and you will help out so many people here.

Bob


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## blueyes (Mar 25, 2010)

If the ww comes clean, and is remorseful, truely sorry and the couple works on what caused the affair to begin with I think with time and total transparencey they can get trust back if they work at it and want it bad enough. If not then caall it quits. Don't make the ww pay for it for the rest of her life or vice versa. It started for a reason, knowone is innocent but i know the way you feel that it is no excuse and it isn't, So we can just agree to disagree as you put it.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

sophiasfriend said:


> I implore other users to keep bitterness and judgement about "cheaters" to the other threads.


Not much chance of that here. A lot of people on this site would do well to put some of their time and energy into thinking why their spouse cheated on them rather than into ripping other people to shreds, but they probably won't.

I think that we should all be grown up enough not to be judgemental and appreciate someone's effort to repair their marriage.

Good luck with your quest.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Not much chance of that here. A lot of people on this site would do well to put some of their time and energy into thinking why their spouse cheated on them rather than into ripping other people to shreds, but they probably won't.


So true - a lot of people on here are here specifically to act out on the anger they feel, rather than learning from their experiences. It's quite easy on a forum in relative anonymity to do things that you wouldn't (or, perhaps better stated - 'shouldn't') do in person. You'll even get it coated in sugar so that you'll fall for it more easily. My suggestion is to simply block anyone who attacks you - advice, knowledge and facts can be passed along without anger. 

My operative when I write on here is: 'Do everything in love' - that is, have the best interest of the object of the post in mind. 

This is a thread on coping with infidelity: in any situation in which there is infidelity, there are TWO people, not just one, involved. And to dismiss one of the two because they were the one who chose to cheat is to leave out HALF of marriage. It is _impossible_ to repair a marriage without BOTH partners involved, each facing and working on their part of the commitment. 

And that means, at least in part, hearing from both spouses. Moreover, it should be readily obvious (it should go without saying?) that unless BOTH sides are presented, the information received and given is at best somewhat limited. Not only that, but it's been my experience that a marriage will recover much more successfully if both partner's input is used, rather than simply imputing one spouse's own ideas and reason to their partner.


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

Yes, 13 years is correct, and yes I am very aware of the how that length of time impacts our efforts to rebuild. For those of you who seem to "need" answers or explanations from me I will say this...the only person who deserves answers or anything from me is my husband, and he is getting them...all of them, no holding back. 

My purpose for this thread was definitely not to get support from those of you who have been betrayed--definitely not those who are too bitter to see humanity any more. The thread is meant to be a place for the Unfaithful to get ideas and stories from each other on how best to go about rebuilding that which we have destroyed. If this idea angers anyone I respectfully suggest you avoid this thread so you don't have to watch our efforts here.

Thanks to those of you who are open minded enough to understand the point of this thread. This will be my only reply to the negative posts on this thread.


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

The constant thought that an unfaithful spouse will continue to lie and cheat is horrible for the BS. To help my husband be sure that I am being entirely transparent with him I have sat down with him every week and reviewed my cellphone bills, identifying any called or texted numbers that he doesn't recognize. 

He's said this helps to keep his brain from overloading.


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## sweetpea (Jan 30, 2007)

#6 Be supportive of others and their desire to have happier, healthier relationships is a posting guideline for TAM.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...117-posting-guidelines-please-read-first.html


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## Lookingforanswers1 (Nov 16, 2010)

People may stay together for financial, religious, or social reasons, but they never "get over" their partner's infidelity. They feel the pain of betrayal decades after the fact, or even years after the death of a spouse. Why? Because, as humans, we want love from someone who loves us to the exclusion of all others. Infidelity is the proof we don't have what we most deeply crave. There is simply no way around that.

People need to hear they don't have to put up with a spouse who violates the most basic tenet of the marriage contract. Strong reasons from religion, law, and cognitive science support leaving. If one person knows the other won't leave no matter what, then that party has enslaved the other.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> People need to hear they don't have to put up with a spouse who violates the most basic tenet of the marriage contract. Strong reasons from religion, law, and cognitive science support leaving. If one person knows the other won't leave no matter what, then that party has enslaved the other.


That is very true, but it includes a proposition to which almost no one holds: that a person will stay 'no matter what'. This is not the point of this thread, nor of any other pro-marriage argument (of which I am aware). 

The choice of 'what is enough' differs from person to person. Yet your argument (even if inadvertently) infers that it is axiomatic that if a spouse cheats, a divorce is necessary. 

Moreover, it is very clear to pretty much every cheating spouse who comes here for help that their spouse is not obligated to remain married once the marriage commitment is broken. That is pretty much a given when the conversation starts: the question of this thread involves the work the unfaithful spouse can do to go about repairing what they have broken. The question is valid, even if the marriage falls apart, because the work it universal, it is not limited to 'this' marriage only. 

Other threads on this forum assume the same thing from the point of the LOYAL spouse: "What can I do to save my marriage?" If this is so, then is it not also applicable to speak to the DISLOYAL spouse of that same marriage about what THEY can do to repair it? 

If the marriage remains, it must be worked on, and this is NOT the sole purview of the LOYAL SPOUSE! It must, of necessity require the work of the disloyal as well! 

Your argument presents the conclusion that the marriage MUST end in event of infidelity. Although I am not sure that is what you meant to say, that is the only possible conclusion.

In fact your first paragraph reveals something else, as well!



> [People may stay together for financial, religious, or social reasons, but they never "get over" their partner's infidelity. They feel the pain of betrayal decades after the fact, or even years after the death of a spouse. Why? Because, as humans, we want love from someone who loves us to the exclusion of all others. Infidelity is the proof we don't have what we most deeply crave. There is simply no way around that.


I cannot speak for ALL people in such a generalized way (in fact, I am aware of people who DO get over past infidelities and move on to much better marriages) - but even if your words held the absolute truth they propose, the fact is that the final three sentences are true for BOTH parties in a marriage that has suffered infidelity: it is BECAUSE the cheating spouse is not getting the love they need from their spouse that they cheat. Deny this all you want, this is the primary (if not misguided) reason behind most affairs: '...I've finally found someone who treats me right!..."

That is because LOVE is an action: it is the behavior of treating someone in a way that is best for them. And affairs happen because this is NOT happening at home - and it is the wrong _solution_ to the problem; _it is not the problem itself._

All of this means that this thread is absolutely necessary if a marriage is to be saved, recovered, and improved. And it still remains true that acting out on your anger against another human being is wrong - and especially cowardly if you do it in an anonymous forum!


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## Lookingforanswers1 (Nov 16, 2010)

My argument asserts that once trust is gone from a relationship, it never returns. People stay together for a whole bunch of reasons but their always exists a nagging doubt in the mind of the person who did not stray. It stays there forever and those who say it doesn't are simply in denial. They learn to live with it if they wish to save the marriage. Nothing the cheating spouse can do will ever repair the damage to the trust, nothing! You can marriage counsel yourself to death and the fact remains, there was infidelity, trust was lost, and it won't be regained. Some will chose to stay and live like that, I myself would never do that. I want it all, trust, respect, honor, love...and will accept no less.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

F-102 said:


> It took 13 YEARS for you to come clean and for him to DISCOVER this?
> 13 YEARS?!?!
> 
> I have a sneaking suspicion that you weren't the only one in the marriage getting some action on the side.
> ...


Why do have such disdain for someone being deceived for so long?

Don't be so smug, it happens.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> My argument asserts that once trust is gone from a relationship, it never returns. People stay together for a whole bunch of reasons but their always exists a nagging doubt in the mind of the person who did not stray. It stays there forever and those who say it doesn't are simply in denial. They learn to live with it if they wish to save the marriage. Nothing the cheating spouse can do will ever repair the damage to the trust, nothing!


This assertion claims an omniscience that is unavailable. 

First, I would argue that trust is NEVER an issue - it's what you trust them _to do_ that is the issue. 

But even beyond that, I know people who have built a marriage after an affair who do exactly what you claim cannot be done. Trust that their spouse is faithful and honest is not a magic knowledge: it is proven over time. 

Your argument proposes that all belief that a spouse is faithful cannot exist after that belief has been shaken once.

As I pointed out above, I know people who have moved well beyond even the trust in their partner's honesty and integrity that they had prior to the affair.

But let's assume that I'm just making that up (for no reason other than to disagree with someone.) Is that kind of faith a good thing? It is a good thing to place so much trust in the honesty and integrity of another person, or is it better to work constantly on the marriage so that the idea of infidelity becomes irrelevant? 

The reason I point this out is that I hold that everyone, without exception, is capable of infidelity, given the 'right' circumstances. Infidelity is an inappropriate response to those circumstances. No one is immune, and those whose pride steps before them to claim they 'would never do such a thing' are very often among those most likely to fall. I've seen it many times.

People who are NOT likely to fall --- are those who spend their time working on the marriage, making it a priority, being a couple, and learning how to overcome conflict and adversity together. And this is the solution either before or after an affair.

This is not to say that one MUST work on a marriage once an affair is discovered! A loyal spouse has the moral authority to divorce instantly. But this is not a necessity. 

And to claim that trust in the honesty and fidelity of a person cannot be regained is to assume too much knowledge - and to ignore people (such as myself) who have done just that very thing.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I have disdain not because he was duped, but the length of time that was mentioned says to me that he wasn't such a good boy, either.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

F-102 said:


> I have disdain not because he was duped, but the length of time that was mentioned says to me that he wasn't such a good boy, either.


Then you would be wrong.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

Lookingforanswers1 said:


> My argument asserts that once trust is gone from a relationship, it never returns. People stay together for a whole bunch of reasons but their always exists a nagging doubt in the mind of the person who did not stray. It stays there forever and those who say it doesn't are simply in denial. They learn to live with it if they wish to save the marriage. Nothing the cheating spouse can do will ever repair the damage to the trust, nothing! You can marriage counsel yourself to death and the fact remains, there was infidelity, trust was lost, and it won't be regained. Some will chose to stay and live like that, I myself would never do that. I want it all, trust, respect, honor, love...and will accept no less.


Looking4Ans:

when i read yer 2 posts here, i "feel" pain/anger coming from yer
words. i interpret bitterness clouding yer judgement on this matter.
trust as "gone" is true, from an innocence pt of view where the marriage once was in yer idealistic frame of reference.

in short, u have the right to feel this way, and determine that this marriage isnt for u IF YOU so desire. what will come of this/that, i dont know but, i suspect negative consequences
such as stunted personal growth, paranoid suspicions in other
relationships, and a negative outlook on life in general (and a small chance of the opposite being true).

OR...u could work it out with yer mate, and establish a newer
model, a more mature level/realm of Trust based on the reality
that H/W's are human, make BIG mistakes sometimes, but need/
desire/crave/welcome/beg for/earnestly seek your FORGIVENESS.

Jesus said u could leave yer spouse, yes, but he said it also
in context with one's "hardness of heart." For if u study the 
scriptures, Israel was unfaithful over n over n over again, but
in HIS devine mercy/love, God forgave and took them back
each time (albeit, some punishments were dealt out too. take note of that/this *TP*)

thus Looking4, what i would concentrate on most here is:
*FORGIVENESS*.

the how's are up to you. but u must achieve it, if only for your sake only. for its healing powers are very necessary for your mental health as well as yer life going forward.
i dont know all yer particulars, but if u can let go of that (warm,familiar, fuzzy?) blanket of pain, u'll be surprised where u can go, what u can do.

again, its your choice(s). If it were me, i'd have to lay it 
down at the altar for Jesus to deal with, or render final
judgement.

shalom...................................


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## Lookingforanswers1 (Nov 16, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> This assertion claims an omniscience that is unavailable.
> 
> First, I would argue that trust is NEVER an issue - it's what you trust them _to do_ that is the issue.
> 
> ...


I will just say that I have spoken with many divorced couples in the course of my life, countless even, and when a betrayal occurs, the feelings of hurt never go away. You have learned to deal with the betrayal, it has not disappeared from your mind. If you were away on business and you weren't able to contact your spouse back home all evening until late, late into the night, yes you would be worried but you would also think, wonder....where is she and who is she with? Why is she not answering her phone? The nagging doubt that comes about because of past infidelity enters your mind like the little devil that sits on everyone's shoulder at some point in time. If you fail to admit this occurs, because I believe I have enough evidence to say it happens to every single spouse who has suffered infidelity, I will assert that you are in denial. 

We do agree that one does not have to end a marriage when infidelity occurs. What we disagree on are the reasons why you would continue a marriage when it happens. It certainly comes down to personal choice. The non-offending spouse must make a compromise and live a life devoid of 100% complete trust forever, and it is forever.


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

Happy belated Thanksgiving!

Back to the thread....

My husband and I now have a "no secrets, no lies" policy to which we have both committed. I know this may seem sort of "duh" on the surface. Looking below the surface we agreed that over the years we have both found it ok to keep "small" secrets or tell "little lies". For example let's say one of us sneaks an extra serving of dessert when the other isn't looking and then acts as if they have no idea where the dessert went. While this isn't earth-shattering, it can be the beginning of a chain of small permissions to tell further--possibly bigger lies. Same with secrets.

By both of us committing to no secrets no lies we are saying we trust each other enough to share everything. It's one more step to rebuilding the trust and bond a strong relationship needs.


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

Similar to AffairCare's post a couple of weeks ago....

The other day I found myself in a situation where not too long ago I would have taken the opportunity to text the OM. I started to merely dismiss the thought, but then pulled my phone out and texted my spouse (who was in another room) "I'm texting YOU"

Later he said he saw the text but had no idea why I would send it. I explained it to him and he thanked me both for the text and for sharing my thought/decision process with him. 

The rebuiling process continues....


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

sophiasfriend, I am literally THRILLED to hear of your progress! Based on what you write here is definitely sounds like you're on the right track. 

Now, you know how there were some things that you and the OM shared that were important to you and the fact that they were important to him as well made it really special? Find things like that with your husband. Share some of those things with him and let him share some of his things with you. (For example, I share poetry with my Dear Hubby because it moves me. Sometimes for 'no apparent reason' I will find a poem that I find moving and send it to him, and tell him what piqued my interest...and then he'll send one back that he finds that spoke to him. We found out our tastes are surprisingly similar.)


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Oh rats--double post! 

Well apparently that happens even to the best of us! LOL :lol: :rofl:


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

If you *really* want to rebuild...answer all of your spouse's questions, and do it honestly. It was tough, but in the end I wound up feeling SO relieved. I no longer carried the lies and deception. 

It's what your spouse will need, and it feels good in the long run.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm so glad you're here! It's so hard sometimes for Disloyals to see the light at the end of the tunnel! ...maybe with two of us here there will be a few who can see what it might be like if they actually tried at it...

But regarding answer ALL your spouse's questions....I agree! Holding all that in your chest feels like your insides are rotten, and letting it out may be difficult but healing. Keeping it in is a lot like an infection that's slowly getting worse and worse--the best thing you can do is a surgery--a clean cut to remove infection can heal smoothly, but if it bursts or is held inside, the infection gets worse. 

Now let's take that one further! As an example, today if your spouse does something that bugs you a little and doesn't sit right with you--be honest! Let them see the real you (while it's just a smaller "bother") and say "You know that thing that so and so said? Well that doesn't sit right with me--it's not okay with me," and then use a W-T-F-S if you can. Ask for what you need and see if they're willing to do it or willing to make an offer that would work for them.


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

Tough night at MC tonight for us. Husband said he was done with his questions about the affair for now and was ready to start on the list I made (at the counsellor's suggestion) of what I want from our relationship.

Turns out he thought he was ready, but he wasn't. He had a very bad reaction to the first thing on my list. It made him angry, which took me by surprise. We both got very emotional. 

I guess this is where heaps of patience comes in. I have to try hard to understand that he's not completely in control of his emotions right now and that he didn't intend to ambush me.

The gist of it is...5 steps forward, 1 step back sometimes. It's a long road. I hope my ramblings can help someone else out there : )


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

sophiasfriend said:


> Tough night at MC tonight for us. Husband said he was done with his questions about the affair for now and was ready to start on the list I made (at the counsellor's suggestion) of what I want from our relationship.
> 
> Turns out he thought he was ready, but he wasn't. He had a very bad reaction to the first thing on my list. It made him angry, which took me by surprise. We both got very emotional.
> 
> ...


When you first posted SF you seemed to me to be way over confident about your situation. Over confident to the point of being exceptionally naive about the inner workings of men.

Personally I don’t think your husband has even begun to recognise the exceedingly detrimental emotional, psychological and intellectual affect your 13 year affair and more especially all the lies, deceits, betrayals and denials that went along with it. And he’s a million miles away as yet from accepting what you did to him.

Believe me his response to it all will be a Man’s Anger. And I don’t think you’ve seen anything like what it will be as yet.

Hear me SF. Your husband’s anger may be such that he cannot be rid of it and live with you at the same time. If you separate and go your own ways that will be because he cannot rid himself of his anger and at the same time live with you.


And now you’ve given him a list of what YOU want from him. I believe it wasn’t intentional but it was Pure Provocation. You are just piling it on. Are you really that naïve? No wonder the Man was so very angry. For goodness sake change your counsellor.

Your actions totally trashed the Man’s inner most core values and beliefs of what his life and his marriage is about. It’s going to take him one heck of a long time to come to terms with that.

I think the best way forward for the both of you is for your husband to go therapy, not counselling, by himself. Your husband has only just begun a very long, very deep inner journey. And you may well get in the way of that. Sounds like you are already as you are making matters worse. Don’t be surprised if he tells you he will separate from you while he goes through that inner journey. How he comes out of it the other end? Who knows. But I think you are taking way too much for granted.

Bob


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

For you disloyal spouses who are out there... it's SO important to read everything you can on the subject of affairs. "After the Affair" is a good book to start with. While most books will have content overlap, they each have some unique information and/or perspective that's helpful.

Do read forums like this but both the betrayed and the disloyal spouse would do well to remember this: the people who post "advice" here know little or nothing about your personal situation and relationship, and often their advice is tinged by the anger they feel from their own siuations. With this in mind remember to take nothing personally, and take it all with a grain of salt (some you may even discard completely). Evaluate it all on your own terms. 

As always.... good luck!:smthumbup:


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

There's a very touchy dilema I'm facing as a disloyal spouse. It comes down to emotions. While I'm aware that this situation is of my own creation, that doesn't change the fact that even disloyal spouses have emotions. Things about our situation make me very sad and very guilty, of course..but sometimes I get angry, frustrated, impatient. The problem with that is that it doesn't feel like I have "the right" to have these negative emotions...many people seem to see the right to anger as being exclusively that of the betrayed spouse. I get angry at myself, at him, at the OM, at relatives and friends who know about our situation and have changed how they relate to us. So what does the disloyal spouse do with these emotions? If I reveal them to my spouse he may be resentful...If I don't, aren't I just repeating the mistakes of the past which led me to be vulnerable to starting an affair in the first place? 

For this kind of problem I've found it invaluable to have 2 people in my life who know me, know the situation and while they do not condone or make excuses for me, they don't judge me either. They are able to listen to what I have to vent and give me their straight-up views on it while still loving and accepting me as a person.(thanks, Soph!  ) I wish this kind of friend for everyone living through this.

It's just another way in which the road to rebuilding is so difficult and needs to be tread so carefully.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I would make a fairly strong suggestion there sophiasfriend. If you do not share those feelings with your spouse, you are indeed repeating the exact issue that got you here in the first place...namely, not be transparent with your spouse. 

When you married, you made a sacred promise to always consider another person. Eventually as you've grown through this, I believe you have realized that it is vitally necessary to let your spouse see "The Real You"--namely to be see-through (transparent) enough for him to see how you really do feel and what you really do think. If you hide that from him...even if "he may be resentful"...then you are one very slim step from doing things and not telling him what you're doing because "he may get mad" or going places and not telling him "because he may not like it." I would STRONGLY, *STRONGLY *recommend against that!! 

Find a time when it's not the middle of a crisis, and use a in W-T-F-S statement, only it's not "When YOU...I think...I feel...So I'm going to request..." but more like "When someone...." or maybe "When they (meaning mom and dad or whoever it is)." Then keep it on what YOU think and how YOU feel so you're not blaming him--stay personally responsible for what's going on inside of you. Then end it with a request like "So I request we think about this together as a couple" or "So I would ask if you could give me a little room to vent to you as someone who's my best friend" or "So could we go over this as a team and figure out how to address it together?" or "So I'd request you give me about a 20 minute hug because I feel so rejected from my own friends!" This puts right out there what he could do to make you feel better, and it affirms that you two are on the same side...rather than at odds and hiding things. 

Having another friend is not a bad idea--don't get me wrong--but right now taking the risk to be transparent, even when it's not all roses, is worth it's weight in gold. That DEMONSTRATES to him that you are turning *toward* him rather than to someone else or being deceptive again.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I understand what you are saying, SF....and I have to admit, I would have been pretty annoyed if my h had opened up to me about how it was hard to get over the OW or that he feared the few close to us that knew would treat him differently...when things started to improve for me, I was more open to hearing his point of view...I asked him questions early on that were probably not good timing with my healing...the truth hurts sometimes....guess my thought would be to say what you have said here...that you don't feel you have the right to be hurting but you are and that has been an internal struggle for you because you don't feel right talking to him about that...in that sense, you are being open and honest but not saying directly 'i am sad today because i ran into so and so and it was really awkward'...that is different because instead of just opening up, you are looking to him for emotional support...and that, IMHO should wait until he is ready to give it when it comes to things related to the affair.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

My marriage is 26 years and recovering from 20 years of affairs. 2 men the first two years then a good friend for 18 years. I am reconciling with my wife because I still love her very much and understand that I created fertile ground in some ways - I did not cheat in spite of being on the road for most of those 26 years and having plenty of opportunity. My wife has told me most of what happened and has now stopped giving me information even though there is not much I want to know. I applaud Sophias friend for looking for the support she needs to make her marriage work.
Sophia - duration is an issue though it does not have to be a deal breaker as it isn't in my case. I may be too accomodating, but as I said I love my wife and firmly believe a majority of the time she loved me as well. Like her, I think you Need to learn why you did it and how you can be sure not let it happen again. What in your relationship needs to fixed by both you and your husband to make sure it doesn't happen again?


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## sophiasfriend (Oct 22, 2010)

8years...Thank you for your post. Your support of my journey means all the more in that you are a betrayed spouse. I have been following your thread on the forum and so am somewhat familiar with what you have posted about your relationship. I dare to say I am encouraged that you, like my husband, seem willing to try to find a way to heal your relationship after being deceived for so long.

My husband and I work every day at digging into what it is about me that allowed me to make the decisions I made. I answer and evaluate everything, sometimes over and over until he and I both feel we have good answers. One thing that we have uncovered that I didn't necessarily realize is that in addition to lying to him and others around me, I spent a great deal of time lying to myself...even after the affair was revealed. This will probably turn out to be one of the biggest hurdles for me to overcome. Afterall, how can he learn to trust me again until I trust myself? I don't ever want to hurt him again so I need to learn how to detect when I'm deceiving/rationalizing my actions to myself?

[/QUOTE] I may be too accomodating, but as I said I love my wife and firmly believe a majority of the time she loved me as well. [/QUOTE]

Even through my 13 year affair I never stopped loving my husband and I hope with all my being you're right about your wife too.

As rebuilding trust is a major issue, maybe you can post here periodically with things your wife has done toward that rebuilding, or things you'd like to see done.

Good luck.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Key thing for her was understanding that she ran from every conflict with me. She said her main reason for having sex with the OM was that when we fought she felt justified. Our fights were often over her spending too much time out with friends. She was also using our kids as a shield and spending an inordinate amount of time with them to the exclusion of me. I work about 10 hours a day and I used to travel extensively - sometimes 2-3 weeks at a time overseas. She saw it as me leaving her with the kids with no time for herself. Never mind that when I travelled I often worked 14-16 hours a day to get home as fast as I could. My schedule was grueling and all work, eat and sleep. Problem was, when I came home I was wiped out and even then didn't focus on her enough and giving her a break. We also had a son with significant mental issues. So she felt she deserved the attention. I haven't travelled in more than 3 years and it still kept going - habit? According to her it was all quickies before and after work. Personally I don't see how that is attention. If there is one thing I am is terminally horny. SO I guess I still don't get how she could do this to me.

The things we've done - focus on each other. I've been doing that for ever. She is beginning to again which makes me feel like she is back in love with me again. She has become open about phone records and has allowed me to use ATTs family map so I see where she is. She keeps me updated on her schedule every morning and doesn't get upset if I text her for a reminder. She texts me if her schedule changes. She revealed some about the affair though there is still more I would like to know but she has shut down saying we need to move forward and put it behind us. I'm trying to do that. It's just that when she shuts down I feel like I'm outside a locked door with her on the other side. Sex is a lot better and she has tried hard to make me believe that I am a good lover and I take the time to make sure she is satisfied which he never did. I had real performance concerns early on and let her know I did. She agreed to a no contact letter with critical points I wanted and while she didn't agree with it, she let me notify his wife knowing it was something I needed to move on - or I was very likely to do something that could land me in jail. She now tells me how she feels instead of running away with resentment - what lead her to him and kept it up. She has agreed she will always come to me first - especially if she has the itch to see him again. On my side, I am changing my approach when we talk so she doesn't feel so intimidated and have eliminated some bad habits I had. I've learned to walk away when my post traumatic stress kicks in so I don't pressure her or get ugly. I'm also on meds to help me. She has also agreed to be evaluated by a psychiatrist so we can determine if she is bipolar like my son and number of her family.

So - patience on her part. Supporting me when I need it, not leaving me to stew in my anger. Being open and honest. Taking responsibility for what she has done.

I think we have made a lot of progress in a short time.

I hope things go well for you and your H.


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