# Trying to make sense of this exchange with my mother



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

My mother has a knack for saying things that leave me speechless. just wondering what your take would be:

My mother and I were discussing a People magazine story about how a man murdered his wife when she realized how counterfeit his life was. That is, he had led her to believe that worked for the ER of a major hospital in town and convinced his wife that he had just recently been accepted to med school. In preparation for the move to med school, the wife had quit her job.

I remarked that this is why it's a good idea to visit one's spouse at work. My mother said that my younger sister was led to believe that the guy she was dating for 2 years at that point lived downtown in one of the newly renovated lofts. Instead, she learned from someone else that he was still living with his father.

I said this is why my sister should have insisted at some point to visit him at his place. 

My mother then asked me, since he didn't have place of his own, what point would there be to ask to visit it?

Does someone see the problem in my mother's logic as I do?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes - I see it clearly. 

I've neither dated nor been in a relationship with someone who didn't invite me over to their home.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Yes, It is "circular reasoning". 

If your prospective is more than 23-24 years old, and doesn't have a place of his own, paid for by him, a job, a driver's license, no alcohol/drug issues, no police record, and a good credit score - do yourself a favor and move on.....

The lady in the People mag story is now dead when a background check for 50 bucks would have avoided her death and his imprisonment.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Some people just have to have the last word - even if it is stupid.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Some people just have to have the last word - even if it is stupid.


Not me!

(sorry, couldn't help myself)


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

This very comforting.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> My mother has a knack for saying things that leave me speechless.


This is called...having parents. A universal phenomenon!

When my wife is explaining something technical (perhaps regarding a smart phone) to my MIL, the MIL will often say, “I know that” when she CLEARLY doesn’t. With my logical mind, I would probably ask, “why did you ask about it then?” But, wifey, who has dealt with her all her life, just ignores it and keeps explaining until she does get it. Like water off a ducks back.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I guess it helps sometimes to call it circular logic. Does anyone else have examples of circular logic prevailed upon them?


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

NextTimeAround said:


> I guess it helps sometimes to call it circular logic. Does anyone else have examples of circular logic prevailed upon them?


My ex husband did this all the time. It's maddening because it's like a hamster wheel. It just never ends.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes, I was going to say that I don't know if I've dealt with circular reasoning. I'd have to read more about it. But I've definitely dealt with general Mind****ery.

Once with my mom and once with my ex-husband, I just said, 'Talking isn't helping, so I'm done with this conversation.'

For all our emphasis on communication, people don't do it very well.



secretsheriff said:


> My ex husband did this all the time. It's maddening because it's like a hamster wheel. It just never ends.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

NextTimeAround said:


> I guess it helps sometimes to call it circular logic. Does anyone else have examples of circular logic prevailed upon them?


You know, coming up with examples of circular arguing is not easy...but I'll give it a try. First some "definition."

Circular arguing occurs most often when people are being questioned about their motivation for one of their actions, but do not wish to reveal the true reasons to others - or perhaps even to themselves. They may assert that they behave in the way they do because that is how they truly wish to behave or because they have no other options.

If a listener presents evidence that the behavior seems to be something that is bringing them a great deal of grief or if he or she points out that there are other options, the arguer will then either just ignore what the other person has said, invalidate it by making a snide comment, engage in a game of "why-don't-you-yes-but," or begin the process of-making further refutable arguments and then returning to the initial assertion as if it had been justified.

So for example if the arguer is a "stay-at-home" mom and she is very frequently yelling at the kids about everything from not dressing right, to not picking up their toys, from speaking to each other rudely, to being lazy kids...and two parents get into an argument about yelling at the kids, a circular argument might go like this:

Mom (arguer): My god these kids are making me crazy! They are so lazy and rude!
Dad (listener): Well, why do you yell at them all the time? What if you just left them alone?
Mom: Yeah right I just won't be a parent, like you (snide comment)
Dad: Hey, all I'm saying is it seems like all this yelling caused you a lot of stress.
Mom: Well yes you might say that but you never have to parent like I do. I have to do it all! (yes-but)
Dad: If yelling at the kids makes you feel crazy, just don't yell at them.
Mom: I HAVE TO yell at them! I have no choice! They don't listen if I just talk to them! (no other choice)
Dad: Could you try some other options maybe?
Mom: Look, the kids don't listen, won't do chores, and talk back to me. Can't you see their bratty procrastinating behavior is what MAKES me scream and go crazy? (restating the first statement)

Soooo...instead of yelling at the kids, what if one spouse yelled at the other? See how that could be a circular argument? Of if one spouse blamed the other for how they act or feel? See?

In your specific instance the circle is like this: BF has no loft apartment > so he won't invite you to loft apartment > because BF has no loft apartment. 

You were suggesting a break in the circle (She should have insisted on visiting "his place" some time) which is reasonable. If BF said he has a loft and she insisted on going there and he couldn't produce a loft...then ya caught him in a lie and time to toss him back into the fish barrel!


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