# So I am an addict...



## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

I have recently discovered that I am addicted to pornography and that my wife will never accept it in any form within our marriage. When we first got married my wife started us out right away seeing a "marriage counselor" or behavioral therapist. My wife's intent was to change my thought patterns and try to make me give up porn. It has taken me about three years to get to where I am now but I fully accept that I am addicted and that I need to give up this addiction.

The problem I am running into is that our MC has told both my wife and myself at our last session that I need to go through withdrawal and she has suggested that I abstain 100% from any form of sexual activity for anywhere from one to four months. That means no sex with the wife, no blowjobs or hand jobs, and no masturbation. I need to be celibate for a period of time to help me overcome this addiction. What is everyone's thoughts about this? Has anyone had any similar experiences? I know from personal experience that if I go more than a few days with at least masturbating I have a hard time focusing and I become rather irritable. 

Like I said, I am not denying that I need to move past my addiction and get into recovery, but I question what our MC is telling us about being completely celibate. Thoughts?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I don't agree with the advice. What does your wife think? You wouldn't be the only one celibate.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Sardis333 said:


> I have recently discovered that I am addicted to pornography and that my wife will never accept it in any form within our marriage. When we first got married my wife started us out right away seeing a "marriage counselor" or behavioral therapist. My wife's intent was to change my thought patterns and try to make me give up porn. It has taken me about three years to get to where I am now but I fully accept that I am addicted and that I need to give up this addiction.
> 
> The problem I am running into is that our MC has told both my wife and myself at our last session that I need to go through withdrawal and she has suggested that I abstain 100% from any form of sexual activity for anywhere from one to four months. That means no sex with the wife, no blowjobs or hand jobs, and no masturbation. I need to be celibate for a period of time to help me overcome this addiction. What is everyone's thoughts about this? Has anyone had any similar experiences? I know from personal experience that if I go more than a few days with at least masturbating I have a hard time focusing and I become rather irritable.
> 
> Like I said, I am not denying that I need to move past my addiction and get into recovery, but I question what our MC is telling us about being completely celibate. Thoughts?


I dont agree with it either. 

Sex with your wife is not bad at all as long as its not obsessive. I feel that it is going to force you into a strange space. Addicts substitute addictions , next you will be a addict gamer or alcoholic or something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

One month is not a big investment. It must be a strategy to allow you transfer sexual desire from an unhealthy fixation to a healthy pattern. It will be easier to rebuild if the porn habit is broken.

Does the therapist think you should sleep together? If you can lie next to her, experience erections and then survive without stimulation or ejaculation it will be torture but when you resume intimacy, other aspects of your erotic life will be more meaningful. You will enjoy kissing more, for example.

Also, there is something in this for you. If you can accept this situation but still be kind and affectionate to your wife, her level of desire for you will increase. She will also be anxious to resume having sex. After all you want this to be mutual.

Does your wife still love you?

Does she say that she desires you but is sick of competing with porn?

Your best bet is to workout very hard so burn off frustration.

If you were an MMA fighter in camp or an Olympic swimmer prior to trials, you might also cut off sex. So it can be done.

Also, remember that your wife now sees you as a sex addict, you need a new image both for yourself and her.

Do you smoke, drink or have any other addictions? Take care not to substitute one addiction for another.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Whats the big deal. no sex from a month. easy as pie and the benefit will be huge!

even 4 months is doable. But I think its extreme. but might be necessary depending how addicted you were.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Your counselor and your wife want you to be sexless? Screw that. Why even be married.  This sounds to me like a prescription for lifelong celibacy. After the counselor gives the go ahead your wife will claim its awkward or that her desire has diminished. If you're giving up porn the least you should get it sex with the woman who's making you give it up.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Sardis333 said:


> The problem I am running into is that our MC has told both my wife and myself at our last session that I need to go through withdrawal and she has suggested that I abstain 100% from any form of sexual activity for anywhere from one to four months.


And just how does she think this will help? 

Addictions are cured by seeking peace rather than excitement and by replacing them with a healthier outlet. In your case, the healthier outlet would be sex exclusively with your wife. Anything else will not be sustainable. And going without any sexual activity at all will not lead to peace, but a build up of frustration. Actually, it might not be a bad thing for a short time as a kind of reset, but not so long that you are bouncing off the walls.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't agree.

When in was much younger I was hospitalized or an eating disorder.

Of course you can't abstain from food when being treated for an eating disorder. Instead abstinence from destructive behavior is required while rebuilding a healthy relationship with food.

In my opinion - complete abstinence from porn. Fine. Work on your thoughts, focus on fantasizing about your wife and not what you have seen in porn. One is a hard line (actual usage of porn) - the other will be an ongoing process that will take work and discipline.

(As an aside I am currently working on this myself - focusing during sex anyway.)

I'm no marriage counselor but feel that abstaining from anything sexual will have the same effect as someone starting out a diet by starving themselves for days. It backfires. It creates a binge.

Moderation is the key, in my opinion. You can completely abstain from porn and begin rebuilding a healthy sexual relationship with the understanding that you are overcoming ingrained habits and healing will take time.

Good luck with everything.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Is the MC a woman, perchance? Just curious.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Actually our MC is a woman. She is also a lesbian. 

Please note that I have no problems with anyone being guy. But it feels like I have two things working against me on this.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Oh, for goodness sake.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> Actually our MC is a woman. She is also a lesbian.
> 
> Please note that I have no problems with anyone being guy. But it feels like I have two things working against me on this.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Get a second opinion. Find a new MC.

FWIW, I think you do need to take a break from all things sexual. As LongWalk pointed out, it will help you re-orient your sexuality towards your wife. But I think you really need a second opinion. Maybe a gay man this time? 

Personally I'd pick an MC that was married and had been married for a long time. But that's just me.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I came back to add - it almost feels that you are being set up to fail. Are you receiving any support to give this up? Or are you just supposed to confess it and have that be enough.

It seems like if you had something you could lean on, like if you knew you would be having sex every other day (I am just picking a random number) it would be manageable doses to get from one to the other without porn/ destructive behavior. Your wife helping you through this (by dependable being available during this time) would foster trust and rebuild your sexual relationship with her in the absence of your old behaviors.

While it is true that lack of sex isn't fatal - I'm more a fan of replacing bad behaviors with healthy ones. There are some addictions that require full abstinence (with a hellcious amount of support like AA) and then there are those that need a transition from unhealthy to healthy. Sex, food, exercise, spending - these are parts of life that are not going away.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

My wife has not entirely expressed how she feels about abstaining for one to four months. As it stands right now we only have sex about once a month anyways. The problem I will face is that my body is used to a release either every day or every other day. I have a very high drive (most likely due to the addiction) and to go from 100mph to 0 overnight may cause several other problems. The support I have getting through this comes from my church in the form of support groups and sponsor programs (similar to AA). The support I get from my wife is minimal at best. She tells me she has some things that she needs to work on but I have no idea what it is. It is like my life and my problems problems are an open book to her, but the reverse is not true. 

The problem I have with my MC is that she herself is not in a relationship with a man so I feel her ideas and opinions are biased based on her life experiences.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I have read that this is a technique used in sex therapy to end addition (or over use) of porn and masturbation. Part of the idea is to you to a point that you are very horny and then sex with your wife becomes the only sexual outlet you have. 

Why were you having sex with your wife only once a month? Is this because you have preferred masturbation? Does our wife want sex with you more often?


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

I was only having sex with my my wife once a month because that is all she wanted it. I turned to porn and masturbation more often because she was never in the mood. She is always too tired or too busy to make time to be intimate with me. She will place being intimate on the bottom of her 'to do" list, below all her house chores, and below all her work tasks, and below the importance of napping.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your wife may be to blame for your sexless marriage but she did not cause you to become an addict. If you had become an alcoholic, would you blame her?

Your sexless marriage, was it always that way?


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

When we were dating she had a pretty good drive. We did not have any problems at the time. After we got married it decreased very quickly. 

Now I am not blaming my wife for my addiction. I actually have been a habitual porn user for a long time now, long before I met my wife. She was also very aware of my porn use while we were dating. The discussion I am hoping to have is not about who is to blame (I know I am a huge part of the problem). I am looking for feedback regarding what our MC told us about becoming celibate. To me I feel like that just takes all the pressure off my wife to have to make an effort to be intimate and places all the responsibility in my hands to save my marriage. Now that might be the addiction talking, but it is how it feels.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

I hear you. 

It's incredibly frustrating to have a disinterested wife (for whatever reason/whoever is to blame).

You are taking positive steps to correct the imbalance. You have acknowledged your wrongs ,are sorry and seeking professional help to deal with the issue. 

I hope your wifes wrongs are being addressed too.

I would also really encourage getting a second opinion.

I think the recommendation is very imbalanced and possibly sexist in its viewpoint.... 

Unless of course your wife has also been instructed to have sex with you every night for her month to cure her dislike of sex? 

Get another opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

No, she has not been instructed to have more sex with me at any point in our 3 years of counseling. 

I will work on getting a second opinion. I have been told by several close friends as well as my parents that the advice given by the MC is bogus. But those are all people who have my back, so I recognize their opinions may be biased as well. That is why came here, to try to get some unbiased feedback.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Can you define "porn addiction", in your case? When I was married, I was masturbating to porn daily, because my wife cut off our sex life. If she would have told me to cut out the porn and masturbation, I would have told her to start putting out daily. So I'm just curious where the line was drawn in your case.

C


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> I was only having sex with my my wife once a month because that is all she wanted it. I turned to porn and masturbation more often because she was never in the mood. She is always too tired or too busy to make time to be intimate with me. She will place being intimate on the bottom of her 'to do" list, below all her house chores, and below all her work tasks, and below the importance of napping.


Hm... so she does not want to have sex very often.. and she doe not want you to have it either.

Would it be true to say that if your wife had wanted sex more often, you would have had sex with her instead of masturbating? Would you have preferred it with her and actually had it with her where she willing?

In my way of thinking, porn/masturbating is only a problem in two cases:
1)	if the person would rather do the alone thing to having sex with their spouse.... and/or
2)	If the person’s porn/masturbating is so excessive that it interferes with their life and job. For example someone who cannot make it to work because they are too busy doing this.
Do either of those apply to you?

I do also understand that a couple has the right to set their own rules. For example if your wife does not accept the use of porn and masturbation, she has the right to express that she will not stay in a marriage with a man who does this. Then you have the right to ether agree to live with her condition or to divorce her. I get that. But, her dislike of porn/masturbation does not mean you are a porn/masturbation addict.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> No, she has not been instructed to have more sex with me at any point in our 3 years of counseling.
> 
> I will work on getting a second opinion. I have been told by several close friends as well as my parents that the advice given by the MC is bogus. But those are all people who have my back, so I recognize their opinions may be biased as well. That is why came here, to try to get some unbiased feedback.


If your truly have a porn/masturbation 'addiction' problem then the advice given to you by the therapist is not bogus. It's a rather normal part of the process of ending this type of addiction and getting a person back to wanting to have sex with a live human (your wife). 

But I'm not convinced yet that you have a sexual addiction of any kind.

I've been through marriage with a man who withheld sex long term. I can tell you that getting my needs met the only way I could is not a sexual addiction... it's normal behavior.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

In my case I have been watching porn since high school. The problem with what my wife has been to is that having sex once a day is too much. Our MC actually told us that the average couple has sex only 26 times per year (twice a month) and that I need to work on bringing my drive down to be more within the norm. 

When talking to my wife and telling her I need it or want it daily she just responds with "that is too much and I can't do that." So I started to supplement my drive more frequently with the porn use. With her inability to make time for me, the use began to grow.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

I feel that if a husbands porn fetish is creating creating stress in the relationship it needs to be dealt with.. 

Just as the wifes lack of interest in sex needs to be on the counselling agenda and needs the wife to work on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

If my wife wanted it, I would give it to her as often as she wanted it. I am at a point that I am done asking for it every time. She has initiated sex less than a dozen times in the 3.5 years we have been married. She does not offer much help in any other form. She has given me a blow job maybe 5 times in our relationship. She has given me several more hand jobs, but I can tell she wishes she were elsewhere when she is doing it. 

Do I want to be alone, watching porn porn and masturbating? No I would rather be with my wife. But she is rarely available for that. She makes no effort to be available for it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Sardis333 said:


> If my wife wanted it, I would give it to her as often as she wanted it. I am at a point that I am done asking for it every time. She has initiated sex less than a dozen times in the 3.5 years we have been married. She does not offer much help in any other form. She has given me a blow job maybe 5 times in our relationship. She has given me several more hand jobs, but I can tell she wishes she were elsewhere when she is doing it.
> 
> Do I want to be alone, watching porn porn and masturbating? No I would rather be with my wife. But she is rarely available for that. She makes no effort to be available for it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


That is why you both need counselling. 

You both have issues with the other that need resolution. 

Porn is not real, your wife is. Porn does not care for you.

They way forward is together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> In my case I have been watching porn since high school. The problem with what my wife has been to is that having sex once a day is too much. Our MC actually told us that the average couple has sex only 26 times per year (twice a month) and that I need to work on bringing my drive down to be more within the norm.
> 
> When talking to my wife and telling her I need it or want it daily she just responds with "that is too much and I can't do that." So I started to supplement my drive more frequently with the porn use. With her inability to make time for me, the use began to grow.


An average is just that, an average. That means that there are many people who have sex at least once a day. And then there are some who have it very seldom.

You are a young man and thus have a, normal sex drive for a young man. It is what it is. Wanting to have sex once a day is normal for some people. It's been normal for me my entire life. It's normal for you at this time in your life. It's normal for a lot of people.

IMO, your counselor is just wrong telling you that you need to being your sex drive down to some statistical number that comes from sampling a small number of folks in the population. 

Shoot, your wife does not even want sex the 'normal' amount of times. For her apparently 12 times a year is her number. 

It is true that you and your wife need to find a solution to your mismatched sex drive. A compromise might be once a week.

But then you need a way to take care of your higher drive. Seems that this counselor is not giving you any advice/help with that is she?

What is your wife's complaint? Is it that she is insulted by your use of porn and masturbation? Is she hurt by it? Does she have a moral objection?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> I have recently discovered that I am addicted to pornography and that my wife will never accept it in any form within our marriage. When we first got married my wife started us out right away seeing a "marriage counselor" or behavioral therapist. My wife's intent was to change my thought patterns and try to make me give up porn. It has taken me about three years to get to where I am now but I fully accept that I am addicted and that I need to give up this addiction.
> 
> The problem I am running into is that our MC has told both my wife and myself at our last session that I need to go through withdrawal and she has suggested that I abstain 100% from any form of sexual activity for anywhere from one to four months. That means no sex with the wife, no blowjobs or hand jobs, and no masturbation. I need to be celibate for a period of time to help me overcome this addiction. What is everyone's thoughts about this? Has anyone had any similar experiences? I know from personal experience that if I go more than a few days with at least masturbating I have a hard time focusing and I become rather irritable.
> 
> Like I said, I am not denying that I need to move past my addiction and get into recovery, but I question what our MC is telling us about being completely celibate. Thoughts?


This is complete and utter BS. If anything you need to switch your focus from porn to relations with your wife. Also add other activities to your life. 

Depriving you and your wife of this intimacy is lunacy.

Drop this counselor. This is snake oil or something with a whole other agenda to it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

soulseer said:


> That is why you both need counselling.
> 
> You both have issues with the other that need resolution.
> 
> ...


But his wife hardly ever wants to have sex with him. He gives her all the sex that she wants. 

He has a high drive and thus is wants sex much more often then she does. What's he supposed to do? Suffer through with no sexual release because his wife is low drive? 

A marriage with sex 10 or fewer times a year is considered a sexless marriage. His wife wants sex about once a months.. so that's 12 times a year. They have an almost sexless marriage.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

If my wife or counselor had ever suggested that I give up masturbation and only get sex once a month I would have laughed in their face and walked out. What are you afraid of? Why are you letting others control you this way. It must seem awfully week to your wife. You must be way more in love than she is. Have you always been this beta?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sardis333 said:


> Our MC actually told us that the average couple has sex only 26 times per year (twice a month) and that I need to work on bringing my drive down to be more within the norm.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Your counsellor is on crack, and she's feeding it to your wife.

C


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> But his wife hardly ever wants to have sex with him. He gives her all the sex that she wants.
> 
> He has a high drive and thus is wants sex much more often then she does. What's he supposed to do? Suffer through with no sexual release because his wife is low drive?
> 
> A marriage with sex 10 or fewer times a year is considered a sexless marriage. His wife wants sex about once a months.. so that's 12 times a year. They have an almost sexless marriage.


Well logically..

The wife needs counselling to deal with her depriving him of a healthy sex life pushing him towards porn for relief. 

He needs counselling to quit the excessive porn that has become a wedge in the marriage . 

Both have issues that a impartial counsellor must deal with.

Who chose that particular counsellor initially?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> I was only having sex with my my wife once a month because that is all she wanted it. I turned to porn and masturbation more often because she was never in the mood. She is always too tired or too busy to make time to be intimate with me. She will place being intimate on the bottom of her 'to do" list, below all her house chores, and below all her work tasks, and below the importance of napping.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Well, then you are being set up. So this is about desexuallizing you period. 

Ummmm. This is not for real. Because if it is I do not get the problem with the porn then. If your wife is not going to have a normal sexual relationship with you then that is part of the problem.

If she is not going to embrace a more active sex life then this is wrong.

Has she promised to deal with her issues around sex?

Indeed you probably need to back off of the porn BUT you probaby need to withraw from your wife so you can find a woman who can meet your needs.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

My wife's complaint I believe is that it is not moral and it is wrong. It has taken 3 years of of MC to actually get to my understanding of how much she dislikes it. But to cut something out of my life that has existed for more than 20 years is not a simple task. 

Again, I am not defending my porn use. I want to make it clear that I recognize I have a problem.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> When we were dating she had a pretty good drive. We did not have any problems at the time. After we got married it decreased very quickly.
> 
> Now I am not blaming my wife for my addiction. I actually have been a habitual porn user for a long time now, long before I met my wife. She was also very aware of my porn use while we were dating. The discussion I am hoping to have is not about who is to blame (I know I am a huge part of the problem). I am looking for feedback regarding what our MC told us about becoming celibate. To me I feel like that just takes all the pressure off my wife to have to make an effort to be intimate and places all the responsibility in my hands to save my marriage. Now that might be the addiction talking, but it is how it feels.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I would get another MC and address all aspects of this issue.

But forget your porn use for a moment. How is this supposed to help your sexless marriage? Does she feel that once porn is gone that you guys will gain real intimacy of is this not seen a s huge problem?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> In my case I have been watching porn since high school. The problem with what my wife has been to is that having sex once a day is too much. Our MC actually told us that the average couple has sex only 26 times per year (twice a month) and that I need to work on bringing my drive down to be more within the norm.
> 
> When talking to my wife and telling her I need it or want it daily she just responds with "that is too much and I can't do that." So I started to supplement my drive more frequently with the porn use. With her inability to make time for me, the use began to grow.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Not sure how old you are. But you have been married less than four years and you are in a sexless marriage. 

NFW.

Kids? If not please consider this is NOT the woman you are looking for. You should not be considered the broken one. These are two extremes. 

How old are you. I am betting your sex drive is quite normal. I am not a proponent of heavy use of porn. 
But you seem to have gotten the bait and switch.

Do you have children?

And without getting involved in what is "normal" daily sex is not a reasonable expectation. But there are ways to compromise here. This is an old discussion on TAM as far as that goes.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> My wife's complaint I believe is that it is not moral and it is wrong. It has taken 3 years of of MC to actually get to my understanding of how much she dislikes it. But to cut something out of my life that has existed for more than 20 years is not a simple task.
> 
> Again, I am not defending my porn use. I want to make it clear that I recognize I have a problem.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Is the porn wrong or is masturbating wrong?

I think not having a good sexual relationship with the person you have married is wrong. Why are you guys married at all?

Ask your self why the sex stopped when you got married. How did you change? How did she change? Did you stop dating her?


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

This is very real. No, we do not have kids, not yet. I have actually wanted to start a family for a while now, but my wife is not ready. I either do not make enough, or we don't have a big enough house, or I do not have a good enough job. There has always been some excuse as to not start a family. 

I will go see a counselor on my end, alone. But from what has been told to us by our MC my sex drive is not normal, hers is probably closer to being normal. After I abstain for one to four then somehow we will learn to grow closer together again. I was told I need to relearn how to have sex.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Btw, I am 32, my wife is 28.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Porn is wrong, according to my wife. 

The relationship changed after we got married. I think a big part of her change came from her inability to graduate college with the degree she wanted. She was in school for 7.5 years and she came away with a degree in general studies (she was going for physio, but cheated on an exam). Since then I have noticed she has been so unhappy with all things in her life. 

I tried for so long to help her be happy, but grew very resentful of her when she would sleep her day away (sleeping 14 hours is nothing for her). She was on depression meds when we dated and married, she just recently (as of October) came off of them. So she is not on any medication of any kind, including birth control. 



_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> This is very real. No, we do not have kids, not yet. I have actually wanted to start a family for a while now, but my wife is not ready. I either do not make enough, or we don't have a big enough house, or I do not have a good enough job. There has always been some excuse as to not start a family.
> 
> I will go see a counselor on my end, alone. But from what has been told to us by our MC my sex drive is not normal, hers is probably closer to being normal. After I abstain for one to four then somehow we will learn to grow closer together again. I was told I need to relearn how to have sex.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


For argument sake let's say your porn usage has been excessive to the point where you are less able to have an intimate relationship with your wife. It seems this is a spirally thing for you. Meaning she seems to want to have sex with you less and less.

This is going to sound very cold, but what does she bring to the marriage?

Does she make a lot of money doing her job? Does she make a lot more than you? I see you are a gymnastics coach. You are a teacher as well? 

She should be approaching her sexual peak. It is actually good you do not have children yet. Some women after children have less sex drive. Not so in your case.

Hw long have you guys been together period? Have you have other long term relationships? Has she?

Wondering what the sexual AND relationship history is here. 

Your perception or not the picture you paint is that your wife thinks you are broken. You admit you may indeed have something to fix. But you also seem not to make enough money as well! WTF!

How much more hit does your self esteem need to take. I mean hey. She married you. You married her. You guys are who you are.

Tell us some things that are awesome about you two.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> Porn is wrong, according to my wife.
> 
> The relationship changed after we got married. I think a big part of her change came from her inability to graduate college with the degree she wanted. She was in school for 7.5 years and she came away with a degree in general studies (she was going for physio, but cheated on an exam). Since then I have noticed she has been so unhappy with all things in her life.
> 
> ...


Ah!!!!!

Wow.

So her meds are not the problem with her seeming lack of sex drive.

Did you guys marry before or after the disappointment? This goes to her motivation to get married when she did.

General studies or not, she should be able to find work of some kind. I get not her dream job. Or is she at home because you expect her to stay home with kids?

A lot going on her besides too much porn.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

She is also a Gymnastics teacher, we work together. I make more than she does. I do not have any expectations that she be a stay at home mom, although I get the feelings sometimes she would like to be on a permanent vacation and not work. We have been together for 6-7 years now. The first 2.5 years we could not keep our hands off each other. Our first family vacation we went to (her family) we had sex nearly every day. The last vacation we went on recently we had sex once, and that is because I begged for it.

We got married when she still had a year of school left. 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I very much hope that you giving up the porn results in an equal sacrifice on her part.

Granted I'm only hearing your side of the story but this.seems unbalanced in the extreme.

I'm with it on going cold turkey on the porn. She has never been happy about it. Abstinence from porn is hopefully going to result in a happier marriage. I am glad if you have support in this endeavor to change.

It's a chicken/egg scenario - did the porn cause the sexless marriage or did the sexless marriage cause the porn. It doesn't really matter at this.point but giving up the one had better result in giving up the other or there is no point.

I'm a woman in my 40's, no freaking way would I be able to deal with 2x/ month, this supposed average. I probably have baggage as well but I could not deal with anyone telling me I had to abstain from masturbation. Porn, that's fine and dandy, but no thanks on the rest. Especially in a sexual mismatch.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

I am currently in day 4 of being celibate. I am so randy right now I feel like I am going to go crazy. 

I totally agree Miss Scarlett about the no porn. Like you going cold turkey everything going else, yeah, I am gonna go bonkers...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> She is also a Gymnastics teacher, we work together. I make more than she does. I do not have any expectations that she be a stay at home mom, although I get the feelings sometimes she would like to be on a permanent vacation and not work. We have been together for 6-7 years now. The first 2.5 years we could not keep our hands off each other. Our first family vacation we went to (her family) we had sex nearly every day. The last vacation we went on recently we had sex once, and that is because I begged for it.
> 
> We got married when she still had a year of school left.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Ok, this clears some things up. She married you when she still had her dreams. Good. So she chose you on the up and up without ambiguity.

So I think her wanting to wait for children and a bigger home and so on is not totally directed on you alone. She is dissappointed in herself. Check. Understandable. I am not without compassion.

So ok, work on that porn stuff.

Sigh. Obviously I am not an expert in dealing with this. BUT  I would think what you guys desperately need is to be together. To have true intimacy as a couple. We all have to deal with our own issues and while others cannot fix us, I get the sense that you two need to rely and yes even lean on each other in an us against the world way.

Porn is not THE answer. It is not THE problem either. But you addressing it in a reasonable way is probably what a loving husband should do here. 

So what can you guys do to energize you coming closer together? No pun intended. You do not have kids. So how about finding things to do together and just enjoy being alive ... together. Date if you will. Be each others best friends. Do things together. Letting a little sexual tension build is probably just fine.

But I suggest you guys continue to sleep together. You should make your time together foreplay. Even if sex is deferred for the short term. Let her fall in love with you again. She lost her way. Her life did not go the way she wanted it to. We get it. She has been depressed. We understand. She needs to deal with it but she needs to embrace the life she has with you now and looking ahead. No doovers in life unfortunately. We play the hand we are dealt.

Optimally you discover greater intimacy with her and she regains her groove. Again she is approaching her sexual peak. Her issues seem to be depression. It is possible your porn usage has taken away from your seduction skills with her. Take walks with her. Do NOT push her away. Take showers together. Give her massages. Date her. Help her out of her depression. She must decide to be happy but you can be there for her.

But again optimally she gets her groove back. You become a better lover all the way around. You learn to romance her. She needs to learn to joyfully meet your needs ... within reason even when she is not wanting intercourse. Maybe she wants a different kind of sex. Not porn sex, if that makes sense. Only you can explain to yourself whether that statement has any meaning. But you guys need to fill yourslef with just loving each other. You are basically learning to do this it seems.

Do this. Not forever. Do not set a timeline. But also be honest with yourself. Wait on the children. Make sure you guys are right with each other first.

See if you can rock her world. Good luck.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Sardis333 said:


> I am currently in day 4 of being celibate. I am so randy right now I feel like I am going to go crazy.
> 
> I totally agree Miss Scarlett about the no porn. Like you going cold turkey everything going else, yeah, I am gonna go bonkers...
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Well, of course I find this expectation cruel and unreasonable for a porn addict. I don't think masturbation without visual stimulus and focusing only on your wife is unreasonable. Miss Scarlett is no sex therapist of course. I find complete celibacy more than a bit harsh.

If it's something you feel you must do or something that you feel will mean a lot to your wife or something that will improve your situation then you must press on, of course. It's not fatal. It something you are capable of. I don't find it reasonable, though. I feel your wife should have been asked to modify her behavior as well and commit to start rebuilding your sexual relationship as a couple. Starting now, not some nebulous happy ever after at some unscripted point in the future. It's too darned much to ask that's what I think.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> I will go see a counselor on my end, alone. But from what has been told to us by our MC my sex drive is not normal, hers is probably closer to being normal. After I abstain for one to four then somehow we will learn to grow closer together again. I was told I need to relearn how to have sex.


What does the MC say is not normal about your sex drive? 
Because you want it more than 26 times a year?

How often would you have sex with your wife if she was willing? Daily? Or more than once a day? Or what?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

His wife should indeed cuddle up and give him a hand here ....


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

If my wife wanted it daily, or twice a day, I would give it to her. I would rather have sex daily with my wife rather than masturbate alone.

The MC thinks that it is abnormal to want it daily or twice a day. 
_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> If my wife wanted it daily, or twice a day, I would give it to her. I would rather have sex daily with my wife rather than masturbate alone.
> 
> The MC thinks that it is abnormal to want it daily or twice a day.
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


At 32 I could have had sex morning, noon and night+. Forget about 23. LOL.

But it is about compormise. Initmacy is the key. To me that means intercourse often enough but in between HJs can be ok. If that is not enough then masturbation. The only thing that throttled this in my younger years was sheer exhastion from working. But then again that made me horny too. I think one does need to learn to make sex special and not just a release. But it varies.

But you have to consider that twice daily for her is asking too much on average. But again your focus is to help her get the feeling back.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> If my wife wanted it daily, or twice a day, I would give it to her. I would rather have sex daily with my wife rather than masturbate alone.
> 
> The MC thinks that it is abnormal to want it daily or twice a day.


It's not unusual for a man your age to want sex daily. I'm a woman and when I was your age I wanted sex daily. Shoot, at almost 65 I'd still go for it daily if I could.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is nothing wrong with wanting sex daily. It's not an unusual sex drive at all. I'm concerned about your MC trying to make you feel like your sexual apatite is somehow abnormal.

I'm also concerned that she is not telling your wife that she needs to step up some to meet your needs.. maybe not daily but surely twice a week or so.. which is what I have read is very usual for couples who have been together for a long time.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

The four month no sex of any sort rule is a part of the 12 Step process. Typically, the process is shutting down all sexual activity in order to achieve "sobriety." At some point, they will want to isolate your sexual triggers and define what eventually are healthy sex outlets and what are "acting out" sex outlets. The goal is to reengage in sexual activity, but for a time, shut it down for sobriety's sake.

It's hard to step away from porn when your spouse is not very open to sex...which probably makes it more of an obsession as you are bringing your frustrations and failing sense of "being the man of the family" to the open arms of feelgood porn. 

My wife was abused as a kid...and after we got married (very quickly) sex dried up. I grew up with the mindset that porn was sinful, so when I began to use it, I was really ashamed about it...but instead of stopping, I continued to use it because I told myself I needed a sexual outlet because my wife verbalized how she "hated" sex...and any time I initiated, she would shoot me down...not to mention the fact that I was fearful of triggering some past abuse issue. 

One day, she saw evidence of my porn use and flipped out...and then ashamedly, I spoke to others about it and was counselled through it. I was told that while I didn't necessarily fit the framework of being truly addicted, I certainly needed to figure out what wounds I was trying to soothe...which really didn't have much to do with my sex life, but more of my own past. It really helped...not my sex life per se, because my wife couldn't deal with her part in our sexual dysfunction...but on my own I came into peace and acceptance of how things were at the time and was able to be watchful of my own triggers.

I would follow the advice of your counselor...and take this time to really read into this...look under the hood of what makes you tick. I would also be prepared to stick to your guns when your wife discovers (believing the porn problem is your problem alone) that she is bringing some issues to the marriage. My own wife was happy to participate when I was the one that needed to be fixed, but she felt betrayed and attacked when the counselor started to highlight the issues that she brought to the table. That was ten years ago...and over time, things got worse to much better to extremely dire to OK. I never stuck to my guns until recently...but lots have recently happened to blow our lives apart...so a lot of things are on the backburner for now. My point is...take care of this...and take care of it quick. Time flies by and you must never assume that your marriage can endure without some maintenance involved. 

You have years of happiness ahead of you if you do what has to be done...even if it jumping through the hoops of no sexuality for a few months. However, if your counseling turns into a punishment session where you have to fillet your manhood and live in shame of wanting to have sex with you wife...then drop it like it's hot and find a new counselor.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

Is your MC a sex therapist? I would hope not. There is so much wrong going on here I don't know where to start.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

No, she is not a sex therapist. But she did talk about doing a case consult with one.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Daily porn is a message to you that things are ok. You get a fix of feeling good. But are things ok? No, they are not. Your wife doesn't want sex and can sleep all day.

You should not feel sexually satisfied because your situation is not satisfactory. By quitting porn you will be motivated to get to the bottom of the problems in your marriage, including your wife's lack of desire.

By gaining control over your addiction you will be a stronger person and your wife will have to accept that. It will be a new challenge. Merely quitting your addiction may not restore her desire. You need to get ready to deal with that.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Sardis333 said:


> I have recently discovered that I am addicted to pornography and that my wife will never accept it in any form within our marriage. When we first got married my wife started us out right away seeing a "marriage counselor" or behavioral therapist. My wife's intent was to change my thought patterns and try to make me give up porn. It has taken me about three years to get to where I am now but I fully accept that I am addicted and that I need to give up this addiction.
> 
> The problem I am running into is that our MC has told both my wife and myself at our last session that I need to go through withdrawal and she has suggested that I abstain 100% from any form of sexual activity for anywhere from one to four months. That means no sex with the wife, no blowjobs or hand jobs, and no masturbation. I need to be celibate for a period of time to help me overcome this addiction. What is everyone's thoughts about this? Has anyone had any similar experiences? I know from personal experience that if I go more than a few days with at least masturbating I have a hard time focusing and I become rather irritable.
> 
> Like I said, I am not denying that I need to move past my addiction and get into recovery, but I question what our MC is telling us about being completely celibate. Thoughts?




You NEED a healthy sexual outlet. That is your wife. I disagree with the counselor 100%. Make your wife your loving target. You also need to teach your wife how to help you, in a very loving way...I say kudos to you friend for changing......

There is a really, great book to read, "Every Man's Battle" by Steve Arterburn, which addresses this very thing. The book also has a closing after each chapter for the wife.....You can also go to New Life Live website.....for tips

Remember, you are not alone. There are thousands that struggle the same say you do.....I am happy you found TAM...good luck to you....my DH and I struggled the very same way as you and your lovely wife....

Blessings


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

All I know is that when I was married, I watched porn and masturbated pretty much every day that we didn't have sex, even at 40+ years old. But if my wife gave any inkling that she wanted sex, I wouldn't miss an opportunity.

Once I left my marriage, I got in a healthy sexual relationship. Masturbation and porn aren't an issue, and it was a no brainer to stop. 

C


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

Sardis333 said:


> No, she is not a sex therapist. But she did talk about doing a case consult with one.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Whoop dee doo. Obviously she didn't listen to a word the sex therapist said.
Is this counselor using standard counseling methods or Christian methods?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

This is really upsetting to read.

You have a normal male sex drive.

A man who is not getting enough sex will turn to porn and masturbation, period. This is not abnormal, abberant, unexpected or an addiction. It is human biology coupled together with modern technology.

Now, if you feel bad about yourself or it's hurting your wife and you want to stop doing it, then that is a fine decision for you to make. 

But you are allowing yourself to be characterized as somehow flawed when you are typical and normal. YOU CANNOT HAVE A GOOD MARRIAGE EVER AS LONG AS YOU ACCEPT THESE CHARACTERIZATIONS. Read what I just wrote as many times as you can. This means no counseling, no abstaining no nothing is going to be one whit of help to you without understanding what it means to be a man in a marriage, and what marriage is.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Sardis333 said:


> I will go see a counselor on my end, alone. But from what has been told to us by our MC my sex drive is not normal, hers is probably closer to being normal. After I abstain for one to four then somehow we will learn to grow closer together again. I was told I need to relearn how to have sex.


What's getting lost in all this noise is that there is a difference between "normal" and "typical". It's perfectly normal for your wife to have a low sex drive. And it's perfectly normal for you to want it every day. It means that you two are probably mismatched, but there's nothing abnormal or wrong about either of you in this respect. 

It could be true that the typical average couple has sex twice a month, IF you factor in things like elderly couples, the handicapped, couples where one partner is in prison, etc. For young, healthy people living together, I'm sure the average is at least once a week. But what matters more is not how often other people have sex, but what makes both you and your wife happy. On issues like this, you usually need to compromise. How far is your wife willing to compromise? Not at all? If not, that's a bad sign for your future together. 

Also this whole issue of being "addicted to porn" is a complete waste of time and a total distraction from the real problems at hand. Whether or not porn is moral is a religious question that you can decide on your own. But it's not harmful unless it interferes with you having a good sex life with your partner. In this case, the porn isn't causing that problem, your wife is. You could eliminate all the porn in the world, but that will still not fix your marital issues here.

And lost in all this, I see nowhere what issues the MC brought up with your wife, what her role is in all this, and what your wife is planning to change to fix the marriage. Is the MC putting this 100% on you? If so, that's not going to work. Marriage is a partnership.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Sardis333 said:


> My wife's complaint I believe is that it is not moral and it is wrong. It has taken 3 years of of MC to actually get to my understanding of how much she dislikes it. But to cut something out of my life that has existed for more than 20 years is not a simple task.
> 
> Again, I am not defending my porn use. I want to make it clear that I recognize I have a problem.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


It is also not moral to deny your husband his wife as his sexual partner. By that i mean within reason, but once a month is not within reason. She needs to take the speck out of her own eye first and then point to the speck in your eye.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Matthew 7:4


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My husband is a sex addict. He used porn frequently from the time he was about 10 till he was 41. It led him into a whole world of worse problems. He currently attends a 12 step groups for sex addicts, and they do NOT believe that sex with ones spouse should be abstained from.

My advice is to find a CSAT (Certified sex addiction therapist) and see what they say.

Sex Addiction Therapist Directory, Find a Sex Addiction Therapist


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## Seawolf (Oct 10, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> My wife has not entirely expressed how she feels about abstaining for one to four months. As it stands right now we only have sex about once a month anyways. The problem I will face is that my body is used to a release either every day or every other day. I have a very high drive (most likely due to the addiction) and to go from 100mph to 0 overnight may cause several other problems. The support I have getting through this comes from my church in the form of support groups and sponsor programs (similar to AA). The support I get from my wife is minimal at best. She tells me she has some things that she needs to work on but I have no idea what it is. It is like my life and my problems problems are an open book to her, but the reverse is not true.
> 
> The problem I have with my MC is that she herself is not in a relationship with a man so I feel her ideas and opinions are biased based on her life experiences.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


You are HD because you're HD, not because of some supposed porn addiction. Most likely, you developed this behavior because you became accustomed to satisfying your HD with porn when a real life relationship wasn't available.

Seems to me, and I'm no expert, and certainly not a lesbian, that if you are to reorient your passion and need for sexual release towards your wife, then you should be having a lot more sex with....wait for it....your wife!

Once a month is completely unsatisfactory in terms of frequency for a healthy, loving couple. So, while you need to reorient yourself away from porn, your wife needs to step to meeting her half of the marital relationship by being more sexually available to you. While this issue is not her problem from a causal point of view, she does have big part in its resolution and unless you've been turning her down for sex, she needs grab and oar and start pulling. Well, maybe not an oar, exactly.....

The sooner and more frequently you start giving it to her instead of logging on to sleaze.com, the quicker your marriage will recover in my view.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

This is absolutely crazy advise and your Marriage Counselor should have his license pulled. The lack of sex in your life (I would imagine your wife has cause some of this) has caused this condition and taking sex away will only make it worse. You need to see someone else. Hopefully your wife will see how absolutely stupid this advice is and continue to have sex with you.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thank you everyone for the comments made. I am in the process of making an appointment with a different counselor, one who specializes is sexual matters. I was feeling like what my MC was telling us was bogus, everyone's comments only helped confirm that feeling. 

Again thank you for all the advice and suggestions given.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Keep us posted, please. In particular, if you can get your wife to go to someone who may not agree with her, and also, what the other therapist has to say. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

The porn turns your sexual energy and interest away from your wife. You don't put the effort that a *REAL WOMAN* needs to want to have sex with you. Before you were M, I bet you put that effort in.

If you stop the porn, you will put more effort in with your wife.

High Fructose Porn Syrup | Married Man Sex Life

As for the one to four months, I do think it would be character building for you and would build the sexual tension and anticipation between you. I abstained from MB for two months before my wedding and my H abstained for two YEARS. The honeymoon was AWESOME!!!


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

PS I have noticed that men who use porn often have a HUGE chip on their shoulder. No matter the frequency or type of sex with their W, the H is on TAM complaining

A W can feel the resentment and it's a huge libido killer...


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

Sardis333 said:


> In my case I have been watching porn since high school.


I'm not sure what you are defining as porn. I've been reading and viewing sexually explicit material since I was about 10 years old.



> The problem with what my wife has been to is that having sex once a day is too much.


Differences in sex drive do happen. I only know of one solution for this. You would have to have your wife cuddle while you masturbate without insisting that she do anything else to stimulate you. Anything else that she wants to do is fine, kissing, etc. but the essential thing is that she isn't required to do more than cuddle. Sex is supposed to be a binding influence on a relationship but this doesn't happen if one person feels ignored or pressured.



> Our MC actually told us that the average couple has sex only 26 times per year (twice a month) and that I need to work on bringing my drive down to be more within the norm.


No, roughly 2/3rds of all couples fit into the range of once every two weeks to twice a week. 1/6th of couples have sex less often than this. 1/6th of couples have sex more often than this. 2% of couples have sex at least once a day. And, all of these couples are normal. Your marriage counselor is a quack to claim that the median is "normal" and anything else is abnormal. That would be the same as claiming that the median height or shoe size was normal. Statistics are a bell curve but all points are normal.



> When talking to my wife and telling her I need it or want it daily she just responds with "that is too much and I can't do that."


Try the method I outlined above.



> So I started to supplement my drive more frequently with the porn use. With her inability to make time for me, the use began to grow.


This is not out of the ordinary. That is a typical method of coping.

If you need a non-sexual example then watch the 1996 Japanese movie, "Shall We Dance?" Do not watch the awful remake with Richard Gere because it loses all of the context. In many Asian countries, men and women do not touch in public, ever. This even includes husbands and wives. So, the idea of touching a member of the opposite sex in public causes ballroom dancing to be viewed as perverted in Japan. It's about an ordinary man who is just bored with his life. He likes ballroom dancing but he feels ashamed and doesn't want his co-workers or family to find out. In Japan, he could also be viewed as a sex-addict even though in most of the world, dancing is seen as quite ordinary, even stuffy.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

Seawolf said:


> Once a month is completely unsatisfactory in terms of frequency for a healthy, loving couple.


Unfortunately, you seem to be making the same mistake that many other people make. For someone with a low sex drive, intercourse once every four months may be completely satisfying. Whereas for someone with a high sex drive, intercourse twice a week may not be. It is false logic to try to fit people into the same category like this.



> So, while you need to reorient yourself away from porn, your wife needs to step to meeting her half of the marital relationship by being more sexually available to you. While this issue is not her problem from a causal point of view, she does have big part in its resolution and unless you've been turning her down for sex, she needs grab and oar and start pulling.


Again, this is not accurate. You cannot force someone to have more sex or less sex than they can be satisfied with. This is just another formula for misery in the relationship. The median is not normal, nor is however much you prefer or I prefer. Each person is different and you have to take them as they are.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Sardis333 said:


> Do I want to be alone, watching porn porn and masturbating? No I would rather be with my wife. But she is rarely available for that. She makes no effort to be available for it.


I do not see how you are addicted to porn, an addiction is where the use of something interferes with your life and causes you problems. Eating food is not an addiction -over eating is an addiction. 

Maybe the average couple does only have sex 24 times a year. 
-That is why the porn industry is so large. 

My wife complained about my porn usage and I told here that I would prefer her and if she would step up I would be happy to do without but I am not interested in being celibate simply because she does not like sex as much as me. 

I doubt you will be able to make yourself not want sex as much by abstaining but hey it is only a month or four so you can always give it a try if it is such an issue that will cause a divorce and you do not want that.

But really I do not see how she is ever going to keep you from masturbating -you do not need porn for that.


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## Phil Landers (Apr 26, 2014)

Seems like you will be losing the last link between your wife and yourself by abstaining. Don't do it.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

You're being horribly manipulated and brainwashed by your controlling wife who obviously searched high and low for just the right type of quack who would love to perform ****ed up neural experimentation on a man.

Honestly if I were you when my wife got home today she would find me on the couch with the economy sized bottle of coconut oil going to town with the most despicable pornography I could find blaring in the big screen.

She holds no respect for you, her twisted insecurities are not your problem.

However by agreeing to go along with this madness in the first place you've shown her you don't hold any respect for yourself so she really has no reason to hold any for you anyway.

You either grow a spine or continue to be manipulated and molded into the nice little boy she wants.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> . Our MC actually told us that the average couple has sex only 26 times per year (twice a month) and that I need to work on bringing my drive down to be more within the norm.


I would suggest getting a second opinion from an "actual" counselor because the one you have is not qualified nor educated in his/her field.

Where did you find this counselor?
What are his/her qualifications?

The average couple does not have sex only twice a month and the "therapy" this counselor is prescribing is not in line with the norm.

There is something very fishy going on here.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Fix this problem...



soulseer said:


> The wife needs counselling to deal with her depriving him of a healthy sex life pushing him towards porn for relief.


And this problem...



> He needs counselling to quit the excessive porn that has become a wedge in the marriage .


Goes away.

He has stated that he's using porn as a crutch to deal with his sexless marriage.
Now he's not allowed to masturbate either?

That'll fix it


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

tacoma said:


> There is something very fishy going on here.



The counselor is a lesbian.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> My wife's complaint I believe is that it is not moral and it is wrong. It has taken 3 years of of MC to actually get to my understanding of how much she dislikes it. But to cut something out of my life that has existed for more than 20 years is not a simple task.
> 
> Again, I am not defending my porn use. I want to make it clear that I recognize I have a problem.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Your counselor doesn't happen to work through your church does he?


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## Seawolf (Oct 10, 2011)

scientia said:


> Unfortunately, you seem to be making the same mistake that many other people make. For someone with a low sex drive, intercourse once every four months may be completely satisfying. Whereas for someone with a high sex drive, intercourse twice a week may not be. It is false logic to try to fit people into the same category like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, this is not accurate. You cannot force someone to have more sex or less sex than they can be satisfied with. This is just another formula for misery in the relationship. The median is not normal, nor is however much you prefer or I prefer. Each person is different and you have to take them as they are.


Hmm....I keep looking, but I can't find anywhere I said something about "force". Marriage is about working together to meet each others needs across a whole range of emotional and physical needs. To use your term, the wife and "counselor" (I'd use the term malicious hack, but that's just me) in this case are jointly trying to force this poor guy to first abstain from marital sex for possibly up to a third of a year, and then second, conform completely to his wife's view of what their sexual relationship should be. This is outrageous.

I stand by my original, excellent and maritally sensitive advice.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

Seawolf said:


> Hmm....I keep looking, but I can't find anywhere I said something about "force".


Okay, let's look again at what you did say.



> Once a month is completely unsatisfactory in terms of frequency for a healthy, loving couple


This is clearly a false statement. You have no basis to make this claim.



> your wife needs to step to meeting her half of the marital relationship by being more sexually available to you


Having his wife have sex when she doesn't want to is a really bad idea. In fact, just from a common sense point of view, you should be able to see that one partner having less sex than they prefer is not somehow worse than the other partner having more sex than they prefer. These are both equally bad.



> The sooner and more frequently you start giving it to her instead of logging on to sleaze.com, the quicker your marriage will recover in my view.


This conclusion doesn't make any sense to me. If she is unhappy because she is having more sex than she likes, how would this help the marriage do anything but dissolve?



> Marriage is about working together to meet each others needs across a whole range of emotional and physical needs. To use your term, the wife and "counselor" (I'd use the term malicious hack, but that's just me)


Is that what I said? Let's look at what I actually said:

_Your marriage counselor is a quack to claim that the median is "normal" and anything else is abnormal._

So, you are pretending to disagree with me about the MC when you actually agree. That does not seem to be completely honest to me.



> in this case are jointly trying to force this poor guy to first abstain from marital sex for possibly up to a third of a year,


Now you've said something that I would agree with. I don't believe that his abstaining from sex for 4 months would be helpful. 



> and then second, conform completely to his wife's view of what their sexual relationship should be. This is outrageous.


This is what I gather from what you said:

If _she_ conforms to _his_ view of what their sexual relationship should be then *the quicker your marriage will recover in my view.*

But,
If _he_ conforms to _her_ view of what their sexual relationship should be then *This is outrageous*.

Surely you couldn't possibly be making such an argument. This would clearly be absurd. So, what is your actual argument?

This is what I said:
_Differences in sex drive do happen. I only know of one solution for this. You would have to have your wife cuddle while you masturbate without insisting that she do anything else to stimulate you. Anything else that she wants to do is fine, kissing, etc. but the essential thing is that she isn't required to do more than cuddle. Sex is supposed to be a binding influence on a relationship but this doesn't happen if one person feels ignored or pressured._

You have to find something that _both_ are comfortable with; this is the only way it will work.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Check out rebootnation.org or yourbrainrebalanced.com and yourbrainonporn.com

These sites help recovering porn addicts. You will get a ton of helpful advice. Better than you are getting here.

Most addicts do find a period of abstinence to be beneficial to unwire the neuropathways. Each journey is different though. Some men masturbate without porn or continue to have sex but they do report a longer reboot. Are you suffering from erectile dysfunction as well. This can change how you do things in recovery. Good luck!


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> I have recently discovered that I am addicted to pornography and that my wife will never accept it in any form within our marriage. When we first got married my wife started us out right away seeing a "marriage counselor" or behavioral therapist. My wife's intent was to change my thought patterns and try to make me give up porn. It has taken me about three years to get to where I am now but I fully accept that I am addicted and that I need to give up this addiction.
> 
> The problem I am running into is that our MC has told both my wife and myself at our last session that I need to go through withdrawal and she has suggested that I abstain 100% from any form of sexual activity for anywhere from one to four months. That means no sex with the wife, no blowjobs or hand jobs, and no masturbation. I need to be celibate for a period of time to help me overcome this addiction. What is everyone's thoughts about this? Has anyone had any similar experiences? I know from personal experience that if I go more than a few days with at least masturbating I have a hard time focusing and I become rather irritable.
> 
> Like I said, I am not denying that I need to move past my addiction and get into recovery, but I question what our MC is telling us about being completely celibate. Thoughts?


I went through a similar thing with my wife and it has destroyed my love for my wife and our marriage.

There is a lot of bad science going around, especially in Christian circles, about the term 'addiction'. We were going to a marriage counselor at the time and I was told because I looked at pornography that I had a 'sex addiction'. There is no entry in the DSM manual--There is no such thing! The advice we were given during this time ruined our marriage. Everyone in our circle of friends and our counselor took my wife's side that since I went outside our marriage to look at pornography that she got a free pass for over a decade of refusal. I loved her enough at the time to do whatever she told me to do. I went through the 'recovery' thing and whatever else our "Christian" counselor told us to do. This included a 3 month abstinence period in our marriage.

I cannot say this loud enough--This is wrong in so many ways.

For me the cure to the temptation to look elsewhere was in a satisfying sexual relationship with my wife. Our counselor shamed me because I wanted sex with my own wife. By convincing us that 3 months of abstinence was good for us basically disconnected the one thing that defines a marriage relationship from any other.

I still care about my wife but no longer love her. I can draw the root of my emotions back to this period of time where we were spending thousands a month on counseling and being told advice that actually drew us farther apart.

We were designed to use sex to draw us closer together. If a Marriage Counselor is giving you advice to not have sex then they do not care about your marriage. Run, do not walk, to the nearest door and find someone else to advise you.

Please! let the disaster of my own marriage be a warning sign to you, don't be ensnared by the psudo-psychology that is floating around that will end up in guilt and emotional distinctiveness by you.

Do not go to any counselor that endorses a sexless marriage. You do not have an 'addiction'...you have unmet needs. Find a counselor who can help with things that will actually make things better. We've been to 7 different marriage counselors and none of them got it right. Not one! If the state you live in requires a licensure and a marriage counselor is suggesting marriage without sex then file a complaint with the State's licensure board. Do whatever you can to get that person disbared so they do not ruin any other marriages.

Feel free to PM me if you need to talk confidentially. I am sorry for what you are going through.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Well I have tried to find a counselor through my church, but that has proven to be more difficult than I had originally thought. Next week I will seek help from outside my church. I am also on day 3 of being celibate and I am already feeling like want to crawl out of my skin. It is hard to be affectionate to my wife, hug her, kiss her, etc, but know I am going to go no where with it. 

I have heard lots of varying advice and suggestions here and I don't know what the right answer is. What I do know is that I have a high drive and my needs don't get met. I know my wife has a lot of self image and self worth problems. I know that she is making an effort to resolve those problems, so I need to make an effort to resistive my problems. My biggest fear is that busy going through all this the outcome will be me having a lower drive and us (as a married couple) spending the rest of our lives having vanilla sex a few times a year...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So you are on day 3 of the end of your marriage. Willingly walking blind to an unknown destination guided by a woman who doesn't like men romantically. Foolish doesn't begin to describe what you're doing. I feel sorry for you but then I guess we reap what we sow.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

A lesbian Christian counsellor?


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

She is a lesbian counselor, not necessarily Christian. I think I remember her saying she was raised Catholic actually. But not sure if she is a practicing Catholic.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

I have been through this and I can give you helpful information if you are interested...

PM me if you are...


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

When people stop blaming forms of media for behaviour they dont accept life will be a better place.

Are you SURE you have an addiction? I have seen real addicts. I have gone to halfway houses. I have seen the carnage addiction causes.

Are you sure?


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Here is an update:

I have been to see an actual sexual addiction therapist. She has asked me to get a couple of books and has also told me that she will put me on a 25-30 day celibacy contract, but I am not there yet. Since seeing her I thought I would give it a go and see how long I can be celibate. Turns out I can make it 5 1/2 days. At about day 4 I start to get very easily agitated agitated and my hands actually start to get a little shake to them. The way the therapist described it is I am am addicted to the dopamine and adrenaline released by my brain when I actively watch porn to to an orgasm completion. The celibacy part is to reset my brain. The therapist thinks, judging by my calm demeanor in our visit, that my dopamine production might be a little low. I am not at the level of being depressed, but I am also not at a normal state either. My brain is not producing dopamine and serotonin at a normal level since I have basically been self medicating myself with porn for the last 20+ years of my life. 

Right now my wife has purchased a router that filters Internet content content, so I cannot access anything on my computer or other wireless devices. She installed net nanny on my phone, so I cannot find it there either. She has put the cable modem in a safe, so I do not have any access to it. I am pretty blocked at every avenue of being able to access porn. My wife is also showing no desire to be intimate with me. Not sure how this will all end up. I have my brother and some close close friends telling me I should throw in the towel and that my wife is being too controlling. I have other people telling me that I need to not give up and keep working on my marriage. I cannot talk to anyone really about what is going on because my wife goes through my phone at night when I sleep and reads any and all messages I have been sending to people. She does not trust me and probably will not trust me for some time to come.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I still think your wife is unreasonably controlling and I wouldn't be willing to give up my only sexual outlet as long as she wasn't willing. I agree with your friends. Time to cut bait. She doesn't want to be a real wife.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Classic case of not only not wanting to give you pleasure but also doesn't want you to have it yourself. You have to be firm in that you're going to have pleasure and the only choice she gets is if she'll be part of it or not.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Yeah, I am facing a pretty big internal conflict right now and I have advocates for both sides. I feel very lost at the moment...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think your wife is going overboard too, but... It does seem that trying this for a month isn't the end of the world.

As far as her cutting you off sexually and yet not allowing you sexual release other ways, that's kind of the point to the celibacy for the month, isn't it? Either you're on board with your therapist or you're not. If you're not, either find another therapist or throw in the towel, cause she can't work at "fixing" you if you won't do the work. My response would be totally different if your therapist wasn't prescribing this for you, btw...

C


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

PBear said:


> I think your wife is going overboard too, but... It does seem that trying this for a month isn't the end of the world.
> 
> As far as her cutting you off sexually and yet not allowing you sexual release other ways, that's kind of the point to the celibacy for the month, isn't it? Either you're on board with your therapist or you're not. If you're not, either find another therapist or throw in the towel, cause she can't work at "fixing" you if you won't do the work. My response would be totally different if your therapist wasn't prescribing this for you, btw...
> 
> C


I would agree, except that his wife has been holding out for a lot longer than the therapist has been in the picture. I wonder if the best course isn't to do the self celibacy thing, but dump the wife first.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Well, one thing to keep in mind is that I am not on contract yet to be celibate. The therapist is not having me go there, yet. I am just trying it on my own to see what I might be facing. My wife does not know, but she also shows no interest in intimacy.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Has your wife done the things she's done (filtering internet etc.) on the advice of your therapist? I do know that the theory behind the celibacy thing is to reset your brain from the release you get from orgasm, and if the only release you're getting is from porn then it will work. I just don't agree that you should be celibate with your wife unless you and she are BOTH working with the sex addiction therapist.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Why not have sex 2-3 times a week and give up porn. That makes more sense. You are trying to transfer your sexual desire to your wife. It's going to take a few months of sex to do that. 

I am not a therapist.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think the best thing to do is find a counsellor/therapist you and your wife can both work with, and then commit to trying for a period of time. That means both of you. 

If not, walk away and deal with your issues on your own.

C


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Sardis333, the first step towards solving a problem is admitting you have a problem. So let's start there.

Dude, you have a problem.

The good news is that lots of people have your problem. People of all ages, all races, and both sexes share your problem. So you're not alone!

Here's your problem:

You like sex.

Men everywhere deal with this every day. And, actually, lots of women everywhere deal with it every day, too. Those funny chemicals your therapist was talking about. dopamine and serotonin? Your body releases those chemicals because sex is supposed to feel good so that people breed and the human race collectively lives to see another day.

So, really, if you stop to think about it, it's the damaged people who only want sex once a month who have the real problem. That's okay- they will breed themselves out of the gene pool over time. Kind of funny to think of your wife as a dead end, isn't it?

So, yeah, you have 3 actual problems.

1) You're a high sex drive kinda guy, married to a low sex drive kinda girl.

2) Your wife loves you so much that she not only doesn't want to have sex with you very often, she wants to totally control sex within your marriage by controlling whether or not you can even jerk off.

3) Your self esteem is so thoroughly damaged, scarred, and beaten down, that you are going to let her.

Your wife knew you viewed porn before you got married. She had lots more sex with you, until she got the ring. Then she cut off the sex. Now she wants to cut off masturbation. The scientific term for this behavior is "bait and switch."

About 1 commenter has said "gee, no sex for a month or more is a great idea." And they didn't actually say it was a great idea, they just allowed that it was a not-unheard-of form of therapy.

Everybody else has said, "going sexless for months when you're married is a bad idea."

So here you are trying out celibacy.

Sardis, here's what's going to happen. You're going to ignore the overwhelming consensus of advice you have received here on TAM. You're going to "explore celibacy," and have a miserable time of it. The frequency of sexual contact between you and your wife will decrease over time as she finds more and more fault with your sex drive.

Eventually, you will start a thread in Sex in Marriage about your sexless marriage, and ask people what you can do to fix that. You'll probably ignore all the advice you are given then, too.

sardis, it's your life. Your happiness is determined by the choices you make. I really think that you need to spend some more time thinking about the choices you are making.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

Sardis333, you are being played the fool. There are 2 people in your sexually dysfunctional marriage.
There is *no bloody way* that *you* should be the only one being _treated_ for some sexual dysfunction.
Your main problem is the fact you are in a basically sexless marriage, and the porn use is your coping mechanism.
Please stop going along with the false premise that it's all *your* issue.
You need to insist that any form of treatment for sexual dysfunction *must* comprehensively address your marital sex frequency. 

Sardis seriously dude: time to Alpha up here because your marriage is on the line. Get working on the REAL sexual dysfunction in your life: living in a sexless marriage with a big desire gap. She want's a porn free marriage? No trouble at all.... once she commits to a normal married sex frequency of 2X per week. 

I would still advise discussing with your wife some alternate jerk off material for those times when you just gotta rub one out.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Maybe she doesn't want him because his past sexual habits have been hurtful.

You dont know the entire story.

rarely will a wife go to the length this woman has gone to to read porn from her life if something didn't cause her to reach this breaking point . And it is her life as well. 

sex in marriage is very important. But anyone who takes sex in marriage for granted or replaces sex in marriage with copious amounts of porn is not honoring his marriage. 

and no s*** he is having a chemical reaction in his brain when he reaches orgasm watching porn. He is bonding to the porn. 

seriously if he can't go 5 days without jonesin for porn then he does have a problem . 

hey OP have you read any books on porn and the brain? do some research. Fix yourself.


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

I dont think you have a porn addiction at all, your just in a sexless marriage. Sorry dude, your going about this all wrong. And the sexless part, I think thats only going to get worse. Your jumping through hoops for a low drive partner thats not doing anything on her end to help you.


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## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

Who picked the MC and the Therapist? I am curious. What changes is your wife doing? Is she understanding about your addictions? How is she trying to help you through this?

I also have been addicted to porn and have my struggles with it. I also understand God wired Men to be visually stimulated and that in todays society porn triggers are every where.

I would ask your wife to give up something she truly loves that is not healthy for her. Something like cigarettes or chocolate. I once during one of our conflicts told my wife to give up ever eating or touching Chocolate again. She is a bit on the heavy side, so eating chocolate, is not good for you if your a bit over weight. Her challenge was to give it up. Never touch it again. Then leave chocolate candy around the house so there was easy access to it. She would do great until aunt flow came to visit and there is something about chocolate and her period that would trigger her addiction and she would fail. She soon had respect for my addiction at least.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you make a good point, Happyquest. It is easy to tell someone else what to give up, when we have no attraction to it. But when it is our addiction . . . it just looks so . . . _different._


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I think the way that the OP posts: is very telling. He sells himself as though he is some sort of victim. that's very characteristic of an addict. 

he's here because he wants everyone to tell him to man up and do what he wants and kick her to the curb. So he's here because he knows that you are going to support his habit. and unfortunately when it comes to sex and porn men will often blame the woman and not at all consider that what is going on can be extremely damaging to a long term relationship as well as the man's ability to function sexually. 

the guy is in a serious situation with his wife. if he wants to stay married he needs to work on this. And if he doesn't then the candy ass thing would be for him to kick his wife to the curb and go back to his hand. 

yep that sounds like a real man to me.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

IF you think your counselor is telling you the right things, then you should follow their advice.

I think most people reading this would say that they are trying to label "normal" as a disease and then trying to cure it. Much like "pray the gay away" type of thing.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Sardis333 said:


> Here is an update:
> 
> I have been to see an actual sexual addiction therapist. She has asked me to get a couple of books and has also told me that she will put me on a 25-30 day celibacy contract, but I am not there yet. Since seeing her I thought I would give it a go and see how long I can be celibate. Turns out I can make it 5 1/2 days. At about day 4 I start to get very easily agitated agitated and my hands actually start to get a little shake to them. The way the therapist described it is I am am addicted to the dopamine and adrenaline released by my brain when I actively watch porn to to an orgasm completion. The celibacy part is to reset my brain. The therapist thinks, judging by my calm demeanor in our visit, that my dopamine production might be a little low. I am not at the level of being depressed, but I am also not at a normal state either. My brain is not producing dopamine and serotonin at a normal level since I have basically been self medicating myself with porn for the last 20+ years of my life.
> 
> ...


Yes you absolutely are an addict. The only way you'll get through this is by following the sex therapist's advice word for word.Also joining some sort of SA group could help too. The purpose of getting into SA would be to get yourself a decent support system.You can't kick addiction alone.I don't truly believe anyone can kick addiction without a sturdy support network. 

You can't look to your wife for support yet. It's clear her mistrust is causing her to be controlling and overly vigilant.It's to the point of treating you like a child instead of an adult worthy of a chance to prove himself capable of being in control of himself.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Hicks said:


> IF you think your counselor is telling you the right things, then you should follow their advice.
> 
> I think most people reading this would say that they are trying to label "normal" as a disease and then trying to cure it. Much like "pray the gay away" type of thing.


I'm normally one of the first to discount one's spouse labeling someone as a "sex addict", especially without a diagnosis from a trained therapist. But he has a diagnosis. And he claims to getting shaky hands and changed moods after 4 days without release. That's good enough for me to say it wouldn't hurt to at least try committing to therapy. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Get the therapy, definitely. But dump the wife. Stay with her and you'll be sexless either way....and after you kick the addiction you won't even have masturbation.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

So the diagnosis is that you are a "porn addict"? It doesn't seem that your addiction is causing any major life issues, other than the marital relation. Note the definition of addiction means the behavior causes some degree of unmanageability or adverse consequence. And aside from your wife's anti porn views, I'm just not hearing that at all. But let's go with your *addict *diagnosis for now.

Regardless, I say your wife has an *equally serious problem* of low desire.

You should NOT accept any "treatment" for your (possible) sexual dysfunction WITHOUT her also being treated for hers. 

In fact, why not SHE get treated first for her low desire?
I would like to see just how bad is your porn "addiction" after you experience a normal sex life.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

I would like to point out first that I am not delusional and I know that I have a problem. If I did not think I had a problem then I would not be shelling out all kinds of money to see a therapist. Second, I do not put all the blame on my wife and I know that I have hurt her with my actions. I wanted to bring an update of my situation to this thread as I believe it was requested of me to provide updates. 

Initially my wife was the one who found our marriage counselor. I have since (very recent) seemed out my own therapist to help me with the addiction. The therapist specializes in sexual addiction. All that she has suggested thus far I am doing. I have read the book Porn Nation. I am currently reading The Porn Trap. I have purchased a workbook that was recommended by my therapist. Understand that I have not been placed on contract yet, I was simply trying it out. I currently attend ARP meetings (addiction recovery for porn). I am trying to do all that is recommended to me by my therapist. 

Now have gone talked with my wife last night we have determined that she has no sexual desire for me. It is too much work for her to want to have sex with me, so very little effort is put into it. I am now fully aware I am on my own in my recovery and I cannot expect any help from my wife. Whether or not her desire changes in the future will determine if I stay married to her. But bottom line is I must overcome my addiction first.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

What is your wife doing to treat her sexual dysfunction?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

She is reading a book. That is about it at the moment. She says she intends to schedule an appointment with a therapist, she just has not gotten around to it yet.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Tommyr, a marriage problem is MAJOR LIFE ISSUE.

Seriously.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

tacoma said:


> I would suggest getting a second opinion from an "actual" counselor because the one you have is not qualified nor educated in his/her field.
> 
> Where did you find this counselor?
> What are his/her qualifications?
> ...


I haven't read all the posts yet, but yes this MC is a quack! There is scientific data for frequency of sex by age group, gender, married, singles, etc. it is obvious that his wife searched out a quack to brainwash her husband that he is abnormal when his desired is closer to the norm than hers.

"18-29 year olds have sex an average of 112 times per year, 30-39 year olds an average of 86 times per year, and 40-49 year olds an average of 69 times per year (Mosher, Chandra, Jones 2005)."

His wife's desire for 1 time/month at age 28 is the problem! Only 11.6% of married women have sex at the frequency she wants (or that the MC says is the norm). So yeah, that MC is full of ---- and needs to go!

Lots more data here: 
The Kinsey Institute - Sexuality Information Links - FAQ [Related Resources]


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Sardis, you're doing the right thing by dealing with your own problems right now, because no matter if you stay with your wife or not, you need to do that. My husband has had to deal with his sex addiction apart from our marital problems - they're separate issues. He was a sex addict before he ever met me.

Has your therapist recommended anything by Patrick Carnes? His books helped my husband a lot.

If your wife does decide to give saving things a try, you'll be ready to work with her. And if she doesn't, you'll be ready to move on. Have you thought about a time limit for her to make her decision?


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

I am currently reading a book called The Porn Trap by Wendy and Larry Maltz. I also got a workbook called Facing The Shadow by Patrick Carnes. I am half way through The Porn Trap, and I will probably be told what the next step is when I go back to my therapist next week.

I have not given my wife any type of time line. But I did let her know that she needs to see a therapist of her own, since she is married to an addict (me) , and her father is an addict (alcoholic). She is not processing either problem correctly at the moment and she needs to. For now I am going to focus fixing myself, then I will look at where she is at and go from there. She has put up with me and my addiction for the last 3 years so it is only fair I give her time to heal and seek help on end.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Sardis I think its fantastic that you love your wife enough to consider being celibate for a month and not relieving your urges yourself. 

It's great that you have been proactive and have gone to a sex therapist and are reading books to understand your situation. 

So my question what is your wife doing to work on her lack of sex drive and interest in being physically intimate with her husband? 

Has she been to a sex therapist/councillor to address her sexual deficiency issues?

If you both look at yourselves and both admit to yourselves that your sexual compatibility is currently not working and seek to address those issues it would be much healthier.

The problem isn't you , it isnt her. The problem is actually both of you. Both of you need reprogramming.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I want to point out something.

The underlying problem likely isn't sex, too much or too little. It is probably am anxiety issue that the OP used sex to address.

I agree with temporary abstinence. That's too disassociate his brain from porn and sex for a time.

But I think a good solid talk with a psychiatrist about overall health, habits and emotions would be the most important thing to do right now.

Cause I bet there is an undiagnosed anxiety disorder underneath all of this.


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## MisterGadget (Feb 13, 2014)

My advice is..if you haven't done this already.

Remove your smart phone and get a simple phone without 3g/4g/wifi/eMail etc.
You only need it to make calls and receive Text Messages.

Remove all online temptation if you can like a desktop/laptop/tablet
at home (cant do this in work if you use a computer)

Next Clear those bookmarks from your desktop/laptop/tablet.
Get rid of any Tv Subscriptions if possible and avoid scenes with sexual content (no watching Spartacus re-runs etc lol ) 

Change your Newsagent to one that doesnt have adult material in stock so your not tempted.

I would also suggest forgo any alcohol as this could weaken those mental barriers.


I dont believe that you should be celebrate as this will only make you want Sex more as it will be on your mind that your missing out.

Instead try focus your attention on your wife to help your brain connect her with sex rather than pornography.
Go for more walks with her and do things that wont cost a whole lot of cash _(Most people always say dinner this and hotel that and get a babysitter #Fcuk1ng Rubbish#)_

Really i hope this helps even in a small sense.


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## khaleesiwife (May 9, 2014)

Why are u only having sex twice a month???! I'm a wife and my Hubs and I have sex every day unless there's a problem with health or otherwise. That includes all things sexual.. blow jobs, PIV, you name it. Every single time. If I couldn't have him I'd be climbing the walls! If we miss a day I take it SO personally. I love that he wants me. Your therapist is a joke. So she gets what she wants and you do the hard work? Um... no. Get a second opinion. Please.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

khaleesiwife said:


> Why are u only having sex twice a month???! I'm a wife and my Hubs and I have sex every day unless there's a problem with health or otherwise. That includes all things sexual.. blow jobs, PIV, you name it. Every single time. If I couldn't have him I'd be climbing the walls! If we miss a day I take it SO personally. I love that he wants me. Your therapist is a joke. So she gets what she wants and you do the hard work? Um... no. Get a second opinion. Please.


He has an addiction.He has admitted it in addition to posting very obvious signs of addiction. This isn't about giving his wife what she wants.This is about getting him to the point of being in recovery instead of cycling through the addiction for the rest of his life. He isn't doing this for his wife.He's doing this for himself.
He made an update to show he has seen a sex therapist so he has gotten more than one opinion.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Just my two cents. You stated you had always had a porn issue, and that sex with your wife was pretty good in the beginning. Also you stated your wife doesn't care for porn and she knew you watched it from the get go. However, my guess is, even though she knew you watched it and she didn't care for it she probably hoped things would change, especially if she really never understood how far your issue with it went. 

It could be the lack of sex or her disinterest came the heavier you got into porn and less likely you were willing to try and give it up. So over time she felt less important and that porn was more important to you. Thats when a lot of women will pull back in the sex dept, and I don't think its so much about a punishment and with holding as it is about a woman whose has been emotionally hurt. Most women who are emotionally hurt will with draw physically. I don't think anyone is to blame here. Plus blaming keeps you stuck and unable to move forward. 

I think its good you all are in MC. I will say its not uncommon for the sex therapist to make the request she has of you regarding abstinence, however I think 4 months might be a bit over the top. If you both are not satisfied with what this sex therapist has requested, you might want to seek out another therapist.


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## Dewitow (Jun 3, 2014)

I disagree with most opinions here! I'm a guy and WAS addicted to porn. What helped me through it was my wife. We were doing some research about educating our children about sex. We ended up on a bunny trail and actually learned a thing or two about teaching the female body how to have multiple "O"s. Get this, we have been married for 24 years and thought our sex life was great! We came across some information and BOOM! My wife turned into a sex craving passionate puddle of mush. How did this help me?? I have had ZERO cravings for ANY porn. I get it all I want at home. My wife read a book that talked about "The Garden" (sex in the marriage) and a statement stuck in my wife's mind; "...Keep him drained and he wont wonder". Well, we have GREAT sex at least three time a week, sometimes three time in a night, and I have no desire to look at another woman! On the contrary, when those times came where I didn't get it for weeks at a time, well, there is a reason the bible says our bodies don't belong to us but to our spouse to we should not deprive one another. BUT only for a time so we can focus upward, LEST YOU BE TEMPTED. God's word states it clearly!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

How long ago did this miraculous change occur?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Dewitow said:


> I disagree with most opinions here! I'm a guy and WAS addicted to porn. What helped me through it was my wife. We were doing some research about educating our children about sex. We ended up on a bunny trail and actually learned a thing or two about teaching the female body how to have multiple "O"s. Get this, we have been married for 24 years and thought our sex life was great! We came across some information and BOOM! My wife turned into a sex craving passionate puddle of mush. How did this help me?? I have had ZERO cravings for ANY porn. I get it all I want at home. My wife read a book that talked about "The Garden" (sex in the marriage) and a statement stuck in my wife's mind; "...Keep him drained and he wont wonder". Well, we have GREAT sex at least three time a week, sometimes three time in a night, and I have no desire to look at another woman! On the contrary, when those times came where I didn't get it for weeks at a time, well, there is a reason the bible says our bodies don't belong to us but to our spouse to we should not deprive one another. BUT only for a time so we can focus upward, LEST YOU BE TEMPTED. God's word states it clearly!


I think this might work for some but not all, glad it worked for you and your wife. My question is, lets say something else happens and your wife loses interest in sex, due to hormonal issues etc, and shes not into sex as much, are you gonna jump back on the porn wagon because her passion might be not as high as before? If so the issue was never really resolved. And while I understand where you are coming from with what you all have done to try and help the issue it still might not be a fix all for some people. After all there are many people who having willing and able wives, who desire their husbands and have sex with them, but yet their husbands still watch and crave porn and it doesn't stop them from watching it. If thats the case its no longer about how much or little sex they are or are not receiving.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I have a difficult time believing that this change is sustainable. Other women will always exist. Porn isn't going away.

They are what men focus on instead of their wives. What you feed grows. Your wife didn't create your interest in other women or in sex. She also didn't choose for you to fixate on those things, increasing their pull and their hold.

Keep him drained and he won't wander.

Sometimes that is the case. Not always. 

How long that new state lasts is more the question for me because people get accustomed to things and become bored. That's why I want to know how long you have been in this new state of marital bliss. And as the previous poster asked, how dependent is this on your wife driving? Don't you have any responsibility to control yourself no matter what? It is only easy for you now because of her. You haven't overcome anything if you think of it that way. The problem has been covered up but can arise at any time. The underlying weakness remains.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Well everyone, Here is another update:

My therapist placed me on an abstinence contract in which both my wife and myself have signed. I am currently sitting at 6 days of abstinence from porn, masturbation, and sex. So far my emotions have mostly been of anger and resentment and irritation. 90% of the people I talk to do not understand why I am doing this and think I am crazy to go through this abstinence contract. Very few people have told me that it will all be worth it. I will update again if I make it another week of celibacy.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What is the most important thing to you?

If it is your marriage then cut the people who don't support you doing what you need to do out of your life.

Those people are undermining your marriage because they don't want to give up porn.

Ask yourself about the quality of the people you are confiding in.

I also don't know why you are talking to other people about this. It seems strange to me. If you are seeking our people to support your habit it speaks more strongly to the fact that you have a problem.

Are you talking to your dad? Brother? Father in law?

Who talks about their porn use to the guys at work? 

You don't want to give up porn.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Sardis,

Clip Clop is right. To me it seems your therapist is working against you. You really do need a close friend you can trust to help you through this since your W seems nothing buy punitive (sorry but it was the best I could do). There is always Sex Anon. Join and get a sponsor. I believe you can even participate online which in itself seems a bit ironic.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Well, to clarify, I am attending ARP meetings, which is just like sex anon, however it is more specific to porn addiction. So I am attending those meetings as well as working with a therapist. Also, the people I confide in are my , my two best that I have been friends with for over 20 years, and my father, as well as a very close friend at work. I am not talking to a whole slew of people, but I am talking about it rather than keep it hidden. 

One reason I continue to update this thread is so others can see my way of thinking and my feelings as I am detoxing from porn. Right now I am not feeling antsy or angry because I attended my meeting and also spoke with my wife tonight about my feelings. That helped take the edge off and the resentment away. I can clearly see how irrational I was earlier today when posted. I was very near breaking my contract and coming home to indulge in my addiction. It took two people that I confided in to help push me to go to my meeting tonight. Detoxing from porn is very hard and I know I will have many instances where I want to to quit. I am finding that having a good support system is important. I am also finding that since my wife is not yet ready to deal with her side of things that I cannot expect her to support me. It is not fair for me to ask that of her since I am the one that put her in this position.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

What I do not understand about the diagnosis of porn/sex addiction is the supposed cure.

With all other addictions the addict has to swear off the substance for life. That is why they always refer to themselves as alcoholics/ addicts. They are not former alcoholics or drug addicts. They can never again use the substance or they have "fallen of the wagon".

When Sardis is done his celibacy contract and all the endorphins and oxytocin have worn off their effects, what is going to happen when he has sex with his wife again. Won't those chemicals be released into his system again? Wouldn't this be equivalent to have fallen off the the wagon? He is going to have sex and it will feel great and we will want to do it again. Lather rinse repeat!

When he conquers his porn/ masturbation addiction and his wife does nothing to improve her issue with sex what is he supposed to do then, remain celibate and never masturbate. It looks like he would have to divorce to me.

If he is a normal to HD person he can not just shut it off like a light switch. His sex drive is the way it is because of his biological make up.


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## Stevenj (Mar 26, 2014)

He could become a eunuch


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> If he is a normal to HD person he can not just shut it off like a light switch. His sex drive is the way it is because of his biological make up.


I totally agree with this...

But his behavioral responses are screwed up. I think that is where the porn "addict" has to focus his energies. How do I change how I respond to pornographic images? How do I make my wife or SO the person who I respond to and want to have sex with?

And in the end if he does have to divorce that does not mean that he failed... He pushed the envelope. He made the situation one where she also had to change - and if she does not then divorce is a step to a better future for him.

I see a lot of times where guys who "claim" to be HD use porn because they are dissatisfied with what they are getting in their marriage, but for one reason or another they do not want a divorce. It is my opinion that these guys are fooling themselves, or better yet they are allowing their own dissatisfaction with life and not doing what they really need to do to fix the situation.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Keep up the good work! Your attitude seems to have improved.

Regarding masturbation... Once his brain gets reset there is no reason he can't M some reasonable amount, just not using porn.

But I agree that she will have to adjust as well. He could become upset that he "gave up" porn for her but if his changes are real it will more likely be that his dissatisfaction will be based on a healthy desire for partnered sex rather than a confused desire to just get off. Any time one partner gets healthy it requires the other partner to change with them so the relationship can continue. I know the OP can't expect much from her right now but it is really important that she knows the time is coming where she will have to step up. It should not be a surprise to her. She should be planning and thinking about it right now.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

Sardis, can I ask about the desired outcome of your treatment:

Is your treatment goal to go through life 100% porn free?
What is your goal in regards to masturbation: will this be "allowed" post treatment, provided no porn is used?
How do you intend to live with your completely normal sexual desire (ie, sex several times per week) while married to your only-once-per-MONTH wife?


Surely your MC has covered all this, and you are all on the same page with expectations following your successful porn treatment?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

sparkyjim said:


> I totally agree with this...
> 
> But his behavioral responses are screwed up. I think that is where the porn "addict" has to focus his energies. How do I change how I respond to pornographic images? How do I make my wife or SO the person who I respond to and want to have sex with?
> 
> ...


I'm puzzled by the opinion in your last paragraph. I was one of those HD guys who turned to porn. My wife shut down our sex life, and so, seeking release, I turned to porn. And I didn't want a divorce because of the obvious reasons that most people don't want a divorce. The kids, finances, the stigma...

In the end, the porn wasn't enough, and I also cheated. Shortly after that, though (and without my wife knowing I cheated) I realized there was no way I could continue living like that, so I ended my marriage. I met another woman shortly after that. And guess what? With a healthy sex life, my desire for porn was gone! Go figure. 

With the OP, I applaud his desire to get porn out of his life. I do suspect though, that his wife will not hold up her end of the healthy sexual relationship that should be in a marriage, and he'll be back at square one in the not so distant future. But hopefully he'll have a better understanding of himself at that point, and can make better decisions about how he wants to live his life. But for now, it makes sense to give one more try to save his marriage. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You are not most guys PBear.

You also never confessed to having cheated. You were lucky not to have been caught and even more blessed to have gotten your head on straight. But let's face it, the pen contributed to your slide. That you realized you didn't want this kind of life is the saving grace. Many men are too afraid or comfortable or even convince themselves that poem is enough. I forget the guy here who says porn is the only reason he is still married. 

Don't be confused. Most people aren't all people.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Tommyr, I honestly am struggling to think about living the rest of my life porn free. I will say that if some miracle happens and my wife turns into the sexual minx I want her to be, I will most likely not have the desire to turn to porn. I personally would love to enjoy porn with my wife or SO (if I end up getting divorced down the line). But right now I am having to make a drastic lifestyle change in the hopes that my wife will also work to change things in her life. If she ends up not changing or meeting my needs, I will most likely end my marriage. But in all fairness to my wife, I have to try everything I can first before I come to that conclusion. 

As far as masturbation goes I know I will not be able to live through life not doing it, especially if my wife does not change. I have not taken any vows to be celibate and I am not living in Ina monastery where it is requires for me to be celibate. I will find sexual relief and satisfaction one way or the other in my life, whether it is with my wife or with someone else. (after my wife, that is I am not going good to cheat)

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

You did not mention if your MC has actually discussed with you some favorable treatment outcomes? If not, then it sounds like she really does not have any "treatment plan" in mind for you. A competent professional should have looked at the overall situation and had a comprehensive treatment plan in mind with well understood objective *before* starting treatment of just Symptom A with only 1 of her 2 patients.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

You are right, I did not mention that. Hard to remember what questions I need to answer when I don't have a copy of the message in front of me. 

She does have a treatment plan for me. The first part of the treatment plan is the 30 days of celibacy to reset my brain. I am also working in a workbook she had me get. I am trying to figure out my reasons behind why I have used porn for so long (this has been going on long before my wife). There could he something deep inside that has caused this, or there may not be. I don't know. But I won't know unless I follow through with her plan. This particular therapist specializes in sexual addiction and has come highly recommended by other therapists that I talked to when trying to find one to help me. Another thing I will be monitoring soon, (not sure if I was supposed to start yet) is my PCI (personal crazy index). She will be able to assess if I am depresses or suffer from anxiety once my brain has cleared itself of the continued release of dopamine and serotonin it is used to getting from my addiction. 

This is what I have so far. Hope it helps explain the process I am going through currently. 

Also, on a side note, today I had a small breakdown on my way to work. I am not close with my wife for obvious reasons, but I feel like this detoxing I am going through is driving us further apart. It breaks my heart that I feel so much resentment towards her and I don't know how to eat it go...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What common bonds do you share? Interests? Can you stay an activity together?

What is driving you father apart is that you can't share your feelings with her and vice versa.

you need to address this pronto.

Does she wasn't too stay married?


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

She does not want to divorce, I know that much. But she also has said she does not want to be intimate with me. Communicating our feelings is something going we do need to work on. We both personalize everything the other says so we don't actually get anywhere when we share feelings. We end up just getting more upset at each other. :-\

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Is she self supporting? Or do you support her? Is she just using you? I can see why you wouldn't want to do anything with her or communicate. I mean she's not really a wife she's just a drain.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

We both work. If we separated or divorced we could both support ourselves being alone. We do not have any kids.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sardis333 said:


> We both work. If we separated or divorced we could both support ourselves being alone. We do not have any kids.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Well I commend you for sticking around. No kids and no sex most men, myself included, would dump her in a heartbeat.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

How long does she think she can live without sex? Not how long can you but how long can she?


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

I don't know. What I do know is that her sex drive is nearly non existent. She does not even masturbate, at least not that I am aware of.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

I'm really surprised how willing you are to give your sexually dysfunctional wife a free pass from the whole married sex treatment program which looks like a solo effort for you. Maybe you are just getting your own self in order before the sexless marriage crashes and burns? That would make sense on a couple levels (hey at least the treatment costs are from the joint checking account before the split, only fair that she would pay half).

Moving on to a possibly helpful suggestion for you....
Google "reddit nofap" which should get you to a forum of like-minded individuals.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

He isn't giving her a free pass. He is taking responsibility for his own issues.

If everyone required the other person to do it first or get on board before they did anything for themselves it would be... Just like most dysfunctional relationships. Ongoing. Finger pointing. Childish,


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> He isn't giving her a free pass.


Um, yes he is. Where did you read any accountability for her behavior in this sexless marriage? 



> He is taking responsibility for his own issues.


Yes I completely agree this is most excellent for him to treat his porn addiction. But he has a *second issue* that is not being addressed at all: he is in a sexless marriage caused by a wife who is not participating in any treatment.


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> If everyone required the other person to do it first or get on board before they did anything for themselves....


Yes, but in this case, she *should* be part of the cure. If she's not part of the cure, then the "goal" that sardis is being urged to move toward (away from his current masturabatory/porn watching ways) is not a healthy sex life, but near celibacy in an essentially sexless marriage.

His wife should at least be willing to consider offering sardis a carrot as he wrestles with this "problem", because it sounds like she's all stick right now. I'm not sure why he's putting up with it.

Sardis, if my wife withheld sex like yours did (with no prospect of her doing anything to solve her own problem) I'd kick her *** to the curb and find a woman who was a better partner (especially if, as you say, there are no familial or financial impediments to doing so). THEN and only then would I worry about my porn "problem" if it still exists.... your porn use might decline dramatically once you have a giving partner in your life. (that's what all the other men here are reporting, you may wish to consider their experience).

(Full disclosure: my view of porn is that it's only a "problem" if it is preventing you from having a healthy sex life with your partner. By definition, then, only people who have willing, but neglected, partners in their lives can have a "problem" with porn. Sardis doesn't have a willing partner in his life, therefore he does not, and cannot, be said to have a porn "problem").


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

I have said it before and I will say it again...

I think that a man who has a porn "problem" is not being his true sexual self.

There is something going on with him that he is not dealing with, or that he is accentuating by using porn. I know there are a lot of posters who have written that they watch porn and it does not affect them. To that I say, BS, because that is what it is, BS.

Recently I have gotten back into playing chess, and sometimes I wake up and I am thinking about certain chess moves. So something I am doing is affecting me. I am thinking about it. 

I can't see how anyone can watch porn and *NOT* be affected.

My point is that Sardis is trying to find his true sexual self, absent of porn. He hasn't found it yet, and his wife has never had to deal with just Sardis, absent the porn influence.

The dynamics here are very deep, and maybe she will come around if she is presented with just his real sexual self. Then again, maybe she won't and then he will have to deal with the other sexual problems that they have.

I do agree that it seems as though she might be LD and that she might be all stick - no carrot. I don't think any relationship where one person's needs are not being met can last long. True, many of us are able to soldier along, but what kind of loving relationship is it where one person is suffering?

Now, when I say needs, I mean more than just sexual needs, but that is for another thread. Still it is something to think about... are we meeting all or most of our partner's needs? Do we know and care what their needs are?


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> Recently I have gotten back into playing chess, and sometimes I wake up and I am thinking about certain chess moves. So something I am doing is affecting me. I am thinking about it.


You seem to be suggesting that if a man does not watch porn, he'll stop thinking about sex. Since you are using the "BS" label freely, I also feel free to apply it in this suggestion.

If that's not what you mean, can you clarify? I have no idea what you mean by a man's "true sexual self", or "being led away from it". A healthy man's "true sexual self" is that he likes sex. Period. In my experience, porn doesn't "lead you away" from liking sex in any way, shape, or form.

As for Sardis' partner's "needs", from the sounds of it, she "needs" him to be a eunuch. Unsurprisingly, he is not enjoying his current effort to meet that need.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> I have said it before and I will say it again...
> 
> I think that a man who has a porn "problem" is not being his true sexual self.
> 
> ...


Of course watching porn affects him thats why he/we watch it. Just as your chess example everything we do affects us. Watching sitcoms or the history channel or reality TV affects me. It doesn't mean it is a problem. When you have been neglected sexually by your wife for years masturbating armed only with your imagination doesn't do much. Just like trying to laugh with no stimulation, so I watch sitcoms.

I have asked this before in this thread and noone has responded to it. If his porn and masturbation addiction are caused by the response to the release from chemicals in his body, when he is "cured" and starts to have sex again won't the response to these same chemicals addict him to sex. Just like an alcoholic having just one drink. So then, what is he to do with a wife that won't have sex with him after he is "cured". It seems to me that his wife thinks she has no problem with her attitude towards their sex life, the problem is his porn watching. Oddly enough she knew he was watching it before they were married and it did not stop her from marrying him. So, what, it was no problem then?

I think the only cure that will be OK with his wife is celibacy for Sardis.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

MarriedManInHis40s said:


> You seem to be suggesting that if a man does not watch porn, he'll stop thinking about sex. Since you are using the "BS" label freely, I also feel free to apply it in this suggestion.


I always forget to write " in my opinion..." 


I am not implying at all that a man will stop thinking about sex, nor do I think he should. But if a man just masturbated to a porn sex scene whose sex is he thinking about now?

He is thinking about someone else's sex, not his own. And for someone who doesn't have a porn "problem" this is not a big deal but for those that do porn presents a huge distraction for them because they think that what they need is what they see acted out in the porn scenes. 

Just think for a moment about what you don't experience when you watch a porn scene...

You don't experience the real "touch" of sex. You don't experience the scent of sex. You don't experience the little foibles and mis-fumbles of sex. You don't experience the romantic or sensual feelings of sex.

Instead what you have is a a scripted, edited, visual and "sterile" experience.

That is not "real" sex in my opinion. That is not at all what real sex is like.

And, if today I don't like the breasts on my real partner I can't just fast forward to the next one. If today my real partner wants to make love but is not as into it as she was yesterday I can't just switch to another web site and find the exact mood I think I need right now.

So my point is that men who have problems with porn often have no idea of what they themselves truly desire. They often are just imaging what they most recently saw.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

MarriedManInHis40s said:


> As for Sardis' partner's "needs", from the sounds of it, she "needs" him to be a eunuch. Unsurprisingly, he is not enjoying his current effort to meet that need.


I agree with you on this. This is the other part of their problem and will require her to change if she is able.

Sardis recognizes that he has been drawn away from his own "true" self by porn. But he isn't going to find it by being a eunuch either.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> I have asked this before in this thread and noone has responded to it. If his porn and masturbation addiction are caused by the response to the release from chemicals in his body, when he is "cured" and starts to have sex again won't the response to these same chemicals addict him to sex.


okay, out on a limb here...

The chemicals released are the reward system at work, yes....

but I think the addiction is to the never ending variety and also to the compulsive action of watching porn. It is a reliable time proven way of finding exactly what he needs at that moment to satisfy his desires, and his shortcomings...

What he needs to do is to retrain his body and his mind to having sex with a real woman, ONE real woman...

The reason for the porn hiatus is to break the hold it has on his mind. I think it is more a behavioral thing than it is a sexual thing. If he wanted sex wouldn't he pursue sex?

Instead he turns to porn. Yes, I know I have simplified his life - it's not that easy, but that is the crux of my point...


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> It is a reliable time proven way of finding exactly what he needs at that moment to satisfy his desires, and* his shortcomings*...
> 
> What he needs to do is to retrain his body and his mind to having sex with a real woman, ONE real woman...
> 
> The reason for the porn hiatus is to break the hold it has on his mind. I think it is more a behavioral thing than it is a sexual thing. If he wanted sex wouldn't he pursue sex?


How is he supposed to pursue sex when he's married to a woman who doesn't want sex? I assume he's tried the usual chocolate/flowers/doing the housework/listening to her talk about her day. 

You seem to have the need to label porn use as a "shortcoming". I agree that we have a responsibility to satisfy our partners (with their unchanging bodies and habits), and if porn use is getting in the way of that you have to change your ways. But sardis' partner doesn't *want* to be satisfied... she instead wants that sardis *also* go through life unsatisfied. 

If you want to "retrain" yourself to have sex with one woman, I'd say having sex with that woman is the way to go.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> Also, on a side note, today I had a small breakdown on my way to work. I am not close with my wife for obvious reasons, but I feel like this detoxing I am going through is driving us further apart. It breaks my heart that I feel so much resentment towards her and I don't know how to eat it go...


I understand the twelve step process for dealing with an addiction in theory at least and I can I see the argument for temporary abstinence even if I don't agree with it.

At the same time though, I think people err greatly by treating this as any other addiction and frankly think your counselor is ignorant and incompetent.

Your sex drive is not comparable to a craving for alcohol inasmuch as it's not going to go away or become more manageable through abstinence. Quite the opposite.

It would be one thing if this mends the sexual rift in your marriage, but I'm not seeing that based on what you've written. And that's no way for a married person to live. There are already enough temptations in life without manufacturing more.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Everybody has their own experiences to draw from. In my case, our current round of celibacy has made my sex drive whither. It has been 8.5 months. Self pleasuring happens less and less as time goes on. Even when I look at an attractive woman, the usual surge of hormones is less. Maybe it is age combined with sexless and passionless marriage but that is my take.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

MarriedManInHis40s said:


> How is he supposed to pursue sex when he's married to a woman who doesn't want sex? I assume he's tried the usual chocolate/flowers/doing the housework/listening to her talk about her day.
> 
> You seem to have the need to label porn use as a "shortcoming". I agree that we have a responsibility to satisfy our partners (with their unchanging bodies and habits), and if porn use is getting in the way of that you have to change your ways. But sardis' partner doesn't *want* to be satisfied... she instead wants that sardis *also* go through life unsatisfied.
> 
> If you want to "retrain" yourself to have sex with one woman, I'd say having sex with that woman is the way to go.


Or he has to embrace the pain of change. Would it be in sardis best interests to divorce and find someone who is more interested in sex with him.?

I am not saying that is what he has to do - but it has to be an option, and if someone in that position keeps dulling the current pain of a sexless marriage with porn use then it becomes a shortcoming because he or she makes no change in their current state of affairs.

What I am saying is that porn use can distort a man's perception of what he needs, it also can steal sexual energy from his relationship with his wife, and it can disable his drive to have real sex which might have the effect of causing him to stay in a far less than adequate situation.

I did not agree with the complete abstinence technique in my own situation and found that it wasn't the best way for me. I was HD and I did go through a brief phase where my drive lapsed, like the previous poster, but I embraced the pain of change, I educated myself, I did counseling, and I found a better way for me. Now that is the platform that I stand on when I talk about what I see as the hazards in using porn.

So his "pursuit of sex" might be a longer process than just giving up porn. I am sure that part of that pursuit of sex would also be a "pursuit of happiness." He might find that, minus the intoxicating effect of porn, he is not in love with his wife and he could be happier, first on his own, and then in a new relationship, or at least with the possibility of a new relationship.


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> What I am saying is that porn use can distort a man's perception of what he needs


Or, perhaps, it can awaken him to what he wants out of real sex.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

You need an older experienced MC that has been (or still is) married. A gay female MC already sees you as the enemy the minute you walked in. It's the brutal truth. During my divorce when the EW and I were going through therapists prior to selecting one, the common theme was exactly that....the gay female MC's always defaulted to the female view and the male gay MC's defaulted to the male view....until we found a 65 yrs old MC that was married, divorced, experienced and seasoned.
Just my opinion.



sandc said:


> Get a second opinion. Find a new MC.
> 
> FWIW, I think you do need to take a break from all things sexual. As LongWalk pointed out, it will help you re-orient your sexuality towards your wife. But I think you really need a second opinion. Maybe a gay man this time?
> 
> Personally I'd pick an MC that was married and had been married for a long time. But that's just me.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

So she used to give it to you on the regular during the early stages of your relationship but now that you're married and settled (ring, house car etc) she decides she's no longer interested in sex. Yet she dumps on you for wrestling the dragon to porn........TYPICAL! SMH! and you wonder why some of us chose divorce and never going down that road again.



Sardis333 said:


> I was only having sex with my my wife once a month because that is all she wanted it. I turned to porn and masturbation more often because she was never in the mood. She is always too tired or too busy to make time to be intimate with me. She will place being intimate on the bottom of her 'to do" list, below all her house chores, and below all her work tasks, and below the importance of napping.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> Just think for a moment about what you don't experience when you watch a porn scene...
> 
> You don't experience the real "touch" of sex. You don't experience the scent of sex. You don't experience the little foibles and mis-fumbles of sex. You don't experience the romantic or sensual feelings of sex.


I agree that all things being equal, good sex beats good porn any day of the week. Things aren't always equal.

The appeal of porn, in my experience, has little to do with the variety of bodies and body types you can see.

Consider the things that you *might* be experiencing watching a porn scene (depending on the porn) that you might *not* be able to experience with your partner (depending on the partner). 

- Porn might feature people having sex who genuinely enjoy sex (rather than just going through the motions like your partner does, while demanding that you "get on with it"). 
- It might feature people who are comfortable with their bodies. (many people who SHOULD be comfortable with their bodies aren't). 
- It might feature people who are open minded about what activities they enjoy in bed (as opposed to a real life partner whose sexual repertoire consists of little more than a long list of "no's"... no oral of any kind, don't touch me here, don't touch me there, don't kiss me like that, I don't like this, I don't like that, I don't like you to talk like this or that during sex, I don't want to wear that because I have hangups about my body, etc etc etc etc....). 
- It might feature titillating situations (the stranger, the plumber who comes by to fix the leak, the naughty nurse), that your partner would never consider re-enacting in a million years because "that's stupid".


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## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

You should quit porn because YOU want to quit porn.
Not because someone asked you to, or made you do it. It will only create resentment, and probably won't stick. 

You'll need to get educated on it, though.
Your Brain On Porn | Evolution has not prepared your brain for today's Internet porn
Your Brain Rebalanced - Overcoming Pornography Addiction

Porn addiction is a real thing, although most people have the wrong idea about it. For instance, I figured that because I only used it occasionally, and it never interfered with my 'life', then it wasn't a problem. However, after 20 years of only occasionally using it, my body is addicted to the slight dopamine hit that occurs from click...click...clicking for new images.

I know this because I went through severe withdrawals while going cold turkey the first time. I lost my libido, lost sensation down there, shrunk, couldn't get hard, etc. Very scary time, because I didn't know about the 'flatline' effect.

I went and got my Testosterone checked, bought tons of different herbs to help out, none of which worked. I started using porn again, just to see if the dang thing worked!

A couple months later I finally stumbled across the links above. Thank goodness. Only after I read about flatlining did I realize this was the right thing for me to do. I went porn free again, and after a rough couple of months, things are much better now. 

I'm around 130 days porn-free, and it's cured my not-yet-mentioned ED issues. Over the last decade, I've slowly had ED issues, and we all thought it was due to aging. Not true. 

Also, the newly returned hardness has made my wife extremely happy. She constantly praises the no-porn thing, and has turned her from a once-a-monther sex-gate-keeper/rejector, to at least 10/month initiator. (Don't get me wrong, there are other things we've been working on)

You don't have to be a sicko or an 8-hour a day porn abuser to be addicted to porn. I NEVER would have thought my light usage could ever be an issue. Nor do I think it's necessarily immoral or wrong to begin with. (Nor did my wife)

Good luck.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Jerry is speaking the truth.

This is completely logical.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

IMO, the biggest red flag I see is this:

His wife is willing to do research, dedicate time and money in paying for a therapist who encourages them to focus on him. She's willing to go out of her way and spend money on fancy computer equipment and locks for him. She'll dedicate time to making sure he stays on the straight and narrow. And in return...

Nothing. There's no reciprocity there. In regards to her own issues (which include self-image problems, 14 hours a day sleeping, Low drive, and depression - all of which are unquestionably problems) she'll maybe read a book. Finding help for herself is too much of a bother. She's got the resources and energy and enthusiasm to make sure he changes, and none for herself.

OP, I applaud your choice as long as it's for you. Frankly, she doesn't sound worth the effort to me.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Argh.

Let's focus on what she isn't doing so we can let this guy keep jerking off to make every other guy who doesn't want to stop jerking off to porn feel better.

Do you guys really like the image you are casting? Is it that important to you? Maybe you need more help them the OP.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

He is doing the right thing, assuming he's doing it for himself. But really his wife is a horrible selfish person and she needs to be left in his dust.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Hey guys. I have another update:

First I will start with I did not make my 30 day abstinence contract. But I am not going to quit either. The other night I broke and there was not a whole lot i had in me to keep my contract. My wife went out to celebrate a friends birthday. She went out with a whole host of single guys and girls and had a night on the town. I was left home alone to do what ever for over 5 hours. I knew she was out getting hammered with out me, even after I have expressed my distaste for the bar scene. She came home so drunk she had to be carried in by myself and another. She barely made it into the shower where she passed out drunk for the remainder of the night. The next day I found out I had to pay the taxi a $200 puke clean up fee. So, suffice to to say, keeping my contract was just not in me. 

At this point, after many conversations with my wife, we have reached this decision: we have given each other a list of thing we want the other to work on that we think will help the marriage. They mainly consist of things we should be doing anyways, like being more spontaneous, enjoying each others company, being more affectionate, etc. I have given her a 6 month time table. If things are not substantially better in 6 months then we need to be done. 

I have my issues with pornography I need to address, which I am with my therapist. She has issues of codependency, being a child of an alcoholic, as well as some underlying alcoholism herself. She has agreed to see her own therapist to deal with her issues just as I am dealing with mine. 

I am tired of being so unhappy with my marriage. I want us to be better. If we cannot pull ourselves out of this and be better and stronger, then we really should not be together. It is not fair to either one of us to remain in such an unhappy state.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Let him work on himself.

You are all a bunch of finger pointers and part of the reason people don't take responsibility for themselves.

She is not here.

Remember that.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I'll bet she's cheating.


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

JerryB said:


> I lost my libido, lost sensation down there, shrunk, couldn't get hard, etc. Very scary time, because I didn't know about the 'flatline' effect.


 Did you go blind too?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Married man, you are already blind.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Sardis333

I applaud your decision to try the celibate route with your self confessed porn addiction. Of course it's not going to be easy. 

From what you have written about your behaviour and that of your wife's I will suggest that this addiction has eroded intimacy and is a contributing factor in other struggles with your relationship.

Perhaps as well as no trust your wife feels little respect for you either as you have let this addiction of yours come between you. 
And at this point it has altered the course of your marriage immeasurably. 

The MC that you see together does not really sound up to snuff. 

A marriage counsellors job is to get the couple to communicate in ways they would not normally. It is supposed to be a safe atmosphere in which couples learn how to work out things together and for themselves. It is not to have a 3rd party tell them what to do. 

They can say things like - "Would it sound right to say that this porn addiction is making you closer or more distant" etc. And then to get the feedback from both of you. 

They can make suggestions, or offer solutions and see how the both of you feel about it but it is not their place to tell you what to do. 

Successful MC's find and expose contentious issues. They are supposed to help and teach you how to communicate with each other in healthy ways which in turn will help work on the issues. 

They are also supposed to help build on the strengths of marriages too. As in what do you like or love about each other.

Building healthy communication skills with get you both back on the road to respect, trust and, love. 

After all you don't need your wife to fix you, you just need her to love you, you can fix yourself.


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## Sardis333 (Jul 2, 2013)

Your last statement cannot be any closer to the truth. All I want is for my wife to love me and not hold my faults against me. I can fix myself, I will fix myself. I just want to be loved by my wife.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

but don't give up working on you even if she doesn't get the love back.

You are on your way to being a better man. Nobody can take that away from you.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Sardis333 said:


> Your last statement cannot be any closer to the truth. All I want is for my wife to love me and not hold my faults against me. I can fix myself, I will fix myself. I just want to be loved by my wife.


This is why your mariage is in serious trouble.
She has to accept you for who you are, and you have to accept her for who she is. Conditioning a good marriage on a person fixing themself is going to be unsuccessful.


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## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

So "I think the only cure that will be OK with his wife is celibacy for Sardis." means that he is not currently celibate??? I would suggest as others have said he should be celibate from his wife by disconnecting from her by way of divorce! Sardis needs to stand up and take control of his situation!

It is very possible that since he is not getting "real sex" from his wife, he is substituting his needs by use of porn. Sardis needs a "real wife" for "real sex" and that will may very well help him move from his porn problem.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> but don't give up working on you even if she doesn't get the love back.
> 
> You are on your way to being a better man. Nobody can take that away from you.


I don't agree with very much on this thread, including some of the things clipclop2 has written, and, actually, a couple of things I wrote (blush, blush).

But I agree with this sentiment 100%!

Get back in the saddle and get control over this thing, Sardis. You are better off than when you started, and you're going to continue to improve. Put in the work and you will reap the rewards!


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

There is a tendency on TAM to pounce on anyone in a sexless marriage and say:

"You're doing A, B & C and not doing X, Y & Z. *Stop* doing A, B & C and *Start* doing X, Y & Z and everything will be fine!!!"

If your partner's sex drive is simply suppressed or latent because of resentment, emotional needs going unmet, etc., this is great advice.



*But if your partner has lost it entirely,* because of medical, hormonal, medicational or psychological issues, all bets are off. 

*Nothing* you personally do is going to make any difference whatsoever. You can either divorce or find a compromise that you both can live with.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Look peeps, we don't know what is going on in his wife's mind. This is Sardis' game and he has to play it. Let's focus on helping him be the best man he can be and clarity will reveal itself.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Look peeps, we don't know what is going on in his wife's mind. This is Sardis' game and he has to play it. Let's focus on helping him be the best man he can be and clarity will reveal itself.


I agree with this because this is his thread, after all.

The only thing that we do know is what he has written about her. From what he has said we see, and so does he, that she has issues of her own that need work. I don't agree with the poster who said that she needs to love him the way he is, and he needs to do the same. That really only works in a marriage where the biggest problems are that he leaves the toilet seat up, and she occasionally burns his toast...

Sardis is here trying to make himself a better man, and if porn is the monkey on his back then we should not be debating the good or the bad of porn here. He has identified that porn is not good* for him*. That's all I need to know.

True - I was in his shoes - and so I understand his feelings. And I know the "defenders" can't help but to argue their point... it's going to happen, but this is still his thread and he is seeking help, advice, and encouragement.

As the blinders come off he is also starting to identify that there are areas where his wife needs to improve, and they have given each other a time line. This is also good, but I would be cautious about this... I think real results can take up to two years. But I think in 6 months he will see some progress and will be either encouraged or discouraged, whichever way things go.

But no matter what happens 6 months from now, sardis is changing his life for the better. Change is good - although the changes are not always what we think we want.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> There is a tendency on TAM to pounce on anyone in a sexless marriage and say:
> 
> "You're doing A, B & C and not doing X, Y & Z. *Stop* doing A, B & C and *Start* doing X, Y & Z and everything will be fine!!!"
> 
> ...


:iagree: Totally spot on. And it may be because they just don't view sex as important. My experience is that she just doesn't care about sex, and I've heard her occasionally mention to her friends that she's happy I'm not like her ex, who insisted on sex. When you're told that she won't have sex unless she has a few drinks, but she won't have a few drinks because of the kids, and she doesn't want to ask anyone to take the kids for a night (grandparents are all out of town and too old anyway), then it's a moot point.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Charging, you aren't Sardis, right?


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