# Help Me Understand What I've Done Wrong



## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

This will be a long one, sorry for the novel and if it is disorganized. I'm not used to being this emotional.

I've posted here before, wasn't very welcome due to my personality and outlook on life and relationships and was often accused of trolling. I'm not trolling or stirring the pot or whatever else you may try to accuse me of. This is real, a real situation, and I don't know where else to turn. 

I've been married for almost 13 years and have two young sons. I married at 21. I finished high school, never went to college or had higher schooling due to both poor health and finances. I worked for the first year of our marriage and other than a small home business I created, I have been a housewife and mother for the duration of the marriage. I am epileptic, and my condition only finally improved enough for me to obtain a driver's licence last year. It was my first step towards any type of independance, especially when my husband bought me a car. I also do some writing online and have made a small niche for myself in a sport community, which I love. 

I come from a very conservative, religious, family, yet also from a broken home. My father was involved in several affairs and my mother left him. He had very little to do with my brother and I as I grew up and my stepfather was an idiot. My home life was unsettled and stressful. My mother is a bipolar alcoholic and we have a very tempestuous relationship. It is very true that those who preach the loudest, sin the hardest. 

My father's adultery never bothered me much. I could never understand why my mother was so torn up about it. My father was a horrible man and his influence destroyed my mother. I can understand her wanting to get away from him for that, but the affairs never bothered me. I even met several of his girlfriends. I didn't like them because mum didn't like them, but I was very young. Throughout my life my issues with my father stemmed from him being a giant jerk and not from the fact that he had affairs. 

My husband was very well aware of my history before we married. We broke up during our engagement when I moved in with a much older man after a particularly bad spell with my dad. I never slept with the man, I am very good at getting what I want from men without giving anything in return. He was a stupid man and couldn't believe his luck in attracting a young beautiful woman (his words). My then fiance and I were broken up for several months. I don't remember the actual length, a lot of that time is very blurry and I don't remember details. He says I called him on New Year's Eve of 2001. I have no recollection of this. We soon resumed our relationship and I moved back in with my mother. My illness took a severe turn, i was hospitalized, and then returned home. My fiance stayed by me the whole time. As a side note, since I was raised so conservatively I didn't believe in sex before marriage and remained a virgin till my wedding night. Well, a technical virgin...barely. I was in control of all sexual activity that occurred and things stopped when I wanted them to. 
We married in 2002 and had the traditional white wedding and traditional wedding night. It was a horrible experience for me. It was painful and invasive and traumatic and barely successful. I HATED it and HATED that he wanted sex all the time. How dare he want to hurt me and use me in that way? I developed yeast infections for the first time in my life, along with cystitis and my resentment grew. Still, he wanted sex. All the time. Typical newlywed I guess. Even now as I write this I feel stirrings of the old anger and resentment that I was hurt and humiliated and he didn't care, he just wanted to get his rocks off. Our sex life for the first 4 years was horrible. Painful and awful for me, never enough or good enough for him. Resentment and animosity grew.

Then I decided I wanted a baby. I talked him into it and he was soon on board. I became pregnant quickly, and it was the most sex he ever had up to that point. I had an extremely difficult birth that resulted in severe tearing and I needed a lot of stitches. When I finally healed, it turned out that sex was no longer painful for me. I still didn't like it, nor see what the fuss was about. I figured he just wanted to get off and I was the only woman he was allowed to use so I was just convenient for him. Honestly, I still feel that way. I have no emotional connection to sex whatsoever and it irritates me that he does.

I suffered post partum depression after both children, but it was particularly bad with my second son. I came very close to doing him serious harm and those were some of the blackest days of my life. I still don't think my husband understands how bad it was. I was put back on anti depressants that I had been on as a teenager. That helped a great deal. I never had much of a sex drive to lose so the side effects were negligible. 
By the time my second child was 4, I was a full time stay at home mum and had discovered that I really wasn't suited to the position. I can't stand being needed and children are disgustingly needy. I am grateful that both of mine developed my independent streak and aren't as bad as some. I was able to have some quiet time. My downtime was spent online, mostly on Facebook or in an online forum for outdoors enthusiasts. It was on this forum that I was approached by a man. I did not know him in real life. But he liked me. It's not unusual...my physical appearance attracts people, my personality repels them. He started sending me messages on Facebook and at first I wasn't all that interested. He was a stranger and I didn't much care for getting messages from strange men. Not because I'm married, but because I don't like being approached by people I don't know. But he was persistent and very flirtatious. The attention caught my attention....this person seemed to like me. He was very complimentary, and we began talking throughout the day. I spent a good part of my day messaging him and we talked back and forth about our mutual interest in the outdoors, and then that progressed to light flirting and then to some more aggressive sex talk on his part. I loved the attention and the power....but I being sexually closed off didn't really know what to say so I played along but let him do most of the talking. Never once did it occur to me that there was anything wrong in what I was doing. I didn't hide it. I had no passwords or locks. I even told my husband I'd been chatting with a guy on Facebook. He didn't really care. He was concerned though, with the amount of time I spent online and my obvious dissatisfaction with my life. So one night he got on my laptop and read my chats and all hell broke loose. I was utterly shocked by his reaction. He was furious at the sexual tone of the chats and that this man was so sexually interested in me. I still have a hard time understanding his reaction. Of course the man was interested in me sexually....I'm female. And the only way to keep him interested in me was to let him think I was sexually interested in him. It's not that hard to convince a man of that....they all want to believe it. I could get the man to say anything....it was like winning the jackpot when I could make him say what I wanted. But then I would despise him a little more each time he did because he was so easily manipulated. And the bull**** stories he would tell to impress...sooo stupid and full of crap, yet the idea that he wanted to impress me was intoxicating.

Anyway, my husband demanded that I stop talking to the man and I refused. He was my amusement and what difference did it make to my husband what I did online? The man lived 6 hours away. I had no intention or desire to actually be with the man, who was living common law and had a couple of kids. I was angry at my H who was making this all about him, and his feelings and his wants. If he'd never read my chats, not one thing would have changed for him. It didn't affect him at all. We fought about if for weeks. He kicked me out one night, I went to hotel....so much drama over such a stupid thing. I finally agreed to give up the man just for some peace and because my H was in such a state. He was so emotional and crying and so upset...all over some conversations. It makes no sense at all to me, still to this day. Anyway, I deleted the man. Then a few weeks later the man and I were involved in organizing a competition together so I added him back to FB. The chats started up soon after, innocent at first and then he became graphic again. Unbeknownst to me, my H was logged in to my FB from work and was reading the whole thing as it happened and phoned me threatening divorce. That night was the battle royale and I deleted the man for good. I ran into him once at a tournament and he really is a pathetic little man. 

Fast forward a few years and in the interim I have had a sexual awakening. I've discovered my sexual power and have also discovered that I'm bi-curious. Our sex life is great, for the most part. We've now come to the place where I'm more adventurous than he is, but we are working on that. He is very much a one man, one woman, traditional, lots of love and emotion and ooey gooey touchy feely stuff and that doesn't work for me. Sex for me is either recreation or a transaction. I have no feelings about it and his insistance on it being a bonding activity irritates me relentlessly. I have given him a free pass to have sex with whoever he wants and that seemed to hurt him?? I don't know why?? He has to be the most complicated man alive. I give him freedom and he acts like its an insult. 
A year and a half ago I met a man in real life and I was fascinated by him. He was physically appealing to me, built much like my husband in fact. He is a scientist and a minor celebrity in the sporting industry. We clicked immediately. We became friends on FB, but didn't start messaging or having frequent contact for another eight months or so. Last winter we were set to attend an industry show and he needed a ride so I gave him one. We began texting around that time and have been texting on a daily basis since then. Most of our texts were about business, science, or sport. But they became friendlier and flirtier. This time I had a password on my phone because I had explicit photos on there and my kids would get ahold of my phone. H didn't know about the texts, although he knew I was good friends with the scientist. The scientist is a heavy drinker and up to that point, I very rarely indulged. I had suffered a back injury and had taken to soaking in the bath and decided I would try some whiskey to help with the pain. I ended up drinking nearly half a bottle as the scientist egged me on via text. Some explicit texts were sent back and forth, this time I was the aggressor. It was only the second time in my life that I'd been drunk. And I got very very drunk. I don't remember the texts, but after I fell asleep my H read through my phone. He'd gotten suspicious and cracked my passcode. He woke me up and hell broke loose again. I remember very little of it. 

Anyway, I apologized when I sobered up. I really didn't mean to do that, the explicit texts. I don't like being the one giving out stuff like that. And I valued the scientist for his other uses, and didn't want to screw up that relationship. I promised H that things wouldn't get like that again. He didn't like that I remained in contact with the scientist but was understanding, both of my need of him in his professional use, and in my using him for my own gratification. As long as things were kept PG we were good. And things were. I kept everything on the up and up. No pics, no sex talk, nothing raunchy. But it became increasingly obvious that H wasn't really ok with it and we had several vicious fights. One evening after an event I went out to dinner with the scientist and H nearly lost his mind. I didn't see what the problem was...we were in a public place and discussing business. H had fifty fits. After that H became more and more anti-scientist and things became increasingly tense between us. He wanted me to cut ties with the scientist and I wanted him to back off and let me have my own circle of friends and interests. As long as I'm not sleeping with anyone else, I'm not cheating on him so I really can't understand what he gets so worked up about. He really needs to get a hold on his emotions. I told him I wouldn't sleep with anyone else because he is not cool with that, and honestly neither am I. I don't care if he does, but I just don't want to get that involved in drama with another human. I can barely stand the drama I have right now.

So we were on vacation last week at a cottage when H looks at my phone while I'm sleeping. This really irritates me, but he does it and I gave him my password because I have nothing to hide. Stupid idiot scientist sends me a porn pic and dear god H nearly has apoplexy. I knew nothing about the pic or why it was sent...it had never happened before and while the pic didn't offend me and I still don't see why H was so angry...it was a pic of a woman, not a man, ..it was really out of context of the whole relationship and had I found it first, I doubtless would have been perplexed myself as to why it was sent. 
H gave me an ultimatum....him or the scientist. Obviously I picked him...I have no desire to be with the scientist. I just really enjoy the validation I receive from such a man. It allows me to feel like more that just a pathetic housewife when real people notice me, and letting go of that is extraordinarily difficult. H can't get his head around that, any more than I can understand why it makes any difference to him what people say to me. I can't see how if affects him one way or another and we continue to be at loggerheads on this issue. 

I want to have my own space with my own friends and be responsible for maintaining my own happiness. I am already too dependent on him for everything else and it disgusts me. I want him to have enough confidence in himself to realize that I love him and only him. I've never loved another human being by choice. Only him. Family and my children I love by biological directive. He is the only one I chose to love. The only one I've ever fought for. Why can't that be enough?


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## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

I cant believe I am reading this. Sorry YOU CANT BE HELPED.
Its your husband who needs help not you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Wow.

Can I ask a question?

Have you ever been diagnosed as being somewhere within the ASD spectrum?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Wow.
> 
> Can I ask a question?
> 
> Have you ever been diagnosed as being somewhere within the ASD spectrum?



Yes. Is that relevant?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Yes. Is that relevant?


Yep. It explains your inability to perceive how your husband could see your penchant for inappropriate conversation w/ other men as a betrayal of him and your marriage. (And FWIW, most men -- and women, for that matter -- would view the same behavior in their own spouses in exactly the same light that your husband apparently does.)

It also _sort of_ explains the detachment that you seem to feel w/ respect to love and sex. Oh, and by the way... your husband isn't actually all that complicated. LOTS of men would be both hurt and offended by their wives' suggestion that they take a lover outside their marriage.

And, while I understand the thought behind it, this might have been the first time that I've ever seen someone outwardly recognize that his/her love for his/her children is little more than the product of a "biological directive".


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

One word: paragraphs.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I want to have my own space with my own friends and be responsible for maintaining my own happiness. I am already too dependent on him for everything else and it disgusts me.


And you also need to be dumped because you don't know a damn thing about being in relationship.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Your husband is perfectly normal in his concerns. You have issues and really need professional help.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Where is MattMatt?

If anyone can explain to LOTL what it must feel like to be her H, he can.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I am always amazed when people say "go outside the marriage" and are surprised when a spouse becomes upset.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

imjustwatching said:


> you don't know a damn thing about being in relationship.


No, it seems I don't. The whole paradigm seems exceedingly bizarre and set up for failure. Yet our society is built on the premise of the nuclear family being a sustainable and workable module. It just leaves me confused.


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

The undercurrent I'm detecting in your post that you have some difficulty interacting with other humans. You seem to not understand why some social conventions exist, or why some people act the way they do.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> As a side note, since I was raised so conservatively I didn't believe in sex before marriage and remained a virgin till my wedding night. Well, a technical virgin...barely.


This is one of the things I'm talking about. Engaging in all sorts of sexual activity but remaining a "technical virgin" isn't the same as actually saving yourself for marriage. I'm not judging one way or the other, but it's hypocritical for you to pretend.



> I figured he just wanted to get off and I was the only woman he was allowed to use so I was just convenient for him. Honestly, I still feel that way.


Clearly, sex doesn't do it for you. That's fine. You've got to understand that for most people, it's not simply a physical release. It's a way for a couple to bond and become emotionally connected. Just because you aren't experiencing this emotional connection does not mean that anyone who wants sex from you is just doing it because you're the only one they're allowed to "use" or that it's "convenient."



> I can't stand being needed and children are disgustingly needy. I am grateful that both of mine developed my independent streak and aren't as bad as some.


Do you experience any sort of emotional connection with your children? Do you love them? 



> I was utterly shocked by his reaction. He was furious at the sexual tone of the chats and that this man was so sexually interested in me. I still have a hard time understanding his reaction. Of course the man was interested in me sexually....I'm female. And the only way to keep him interested in me was to let him think I was sexually interested in him.


And you don't understand why this is a problem?! I think maybe this sort of thing might be why people believe you're deliberately trolling. It's just so completely far outside of the norm.



> It's not that hard to convince a man of that....they all want to believe it. I could get the man to say anything....it was like winning the jackpot when I could make him say what I wanted. But then I would despise him a little more each time he did because he was so easily manipulated.


I read this paragraph and I come away feeling like you're a sadistic and pathological person. Generally speaking, people do not have interactions with other people with the intent to manipulate them or provoke specific reactions for their own amusement. 



> Sex for me is either recreation or a transaction. I have no feelings about it and his insistance on it being a bonding activity irritates me relentlessly.


Have you considered the possibility that pair-bonding in a monogamous relationship is simply not for you? I think you're going to find that ANYONE who gets into a relationship with you is going to look at sex as a bonding activity. The kind of emotional, detached sex that you seem to want may be available from one-night stands or visiting prostitutes. 



> I have given him a free pass to have sex with whoever he wants and that seemed to hurt him?? I don't know why?? He has to be the most complicated man alive. I give him freedom and he acts like its an insult.


I can't believe this requires an explanation. It seems so obvious to me. However, since you seem to be genuinely confused, here's the answer. You're supposed to be jealous if he is interested in other women. You're supposed to be furious if he has sex with anyone else. By telling him to go out and have sex with other people, you're telling him you don't care if he's committed to you and you don't care if he falls in love with some other woman that he beds.



> As long as I'm not sleeping with anyone else, I'm not cheating on him so I really can't understand what he gets so worked up about.


I would normally call this sort of thing an "emotional affair," but since you don't seem to experience emotions the way a normal human does, perhaps a different term is required. Something like "non-sexual affair." Sleeping with somebody else is not the only way to cross that line. Forming a connection with another person (usually an emotional connection, though apparently not in your case) is another.

Please respond to me and tell me that some of this is sinking in. I really hope that I'm getting through to you. It's extremely important that you understand this.


Quigster


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Your husband reacts in a normal manner to boundaries being crossed and being disrespected.

It will take a lot of work for you to understand. 

From your perspective you are normal and your husband's reaction is not.

Not a good situation.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

If you can't, or won't, get help for your condition, you should give your husband an amicable divorce.

He must be a saint to have put up with your terrible behavior so far.

Understand. Your H seems pathetic and displaying undesirable behavior in your skewed perceptions but you are, in fact, behaving in as disgusting a fashion as I have ever witnessed.

Your behavior is truly reprehensible to everyone on planet earth who does not share your condition.

You are in need of significant help or to be a single woman who is content using people as commodities and being used likewise.

If you value your husband and children at all, get serious help. If not, leave amicably.

A poisonous, parasitic organism might not comprehend that it is vile to humans but it doesn't negate the fact it is.

You need to learn to become human. It will not come naturally to you so it will take effort and training.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I am in a rare position here. I was actually at a loss for words for a while. 

To use an old British expression... sh*t a f**king brick! 

OK. Putting my counsellor's hat on, you need urgent counselling and deep therapy.

The way you look at the world is fractured and wrong.

Why did your husband act like he'd been insulted when you offered to farm him out to other women?

Because you *had* insulted him!

He is a one woman man and you rejected him. Way to go.

You probably have issues involving your post partum depression that were not resolved at the time.

I suggest that you see your MD as a matter of urgency and share with him or her what you have shared with us. 

And ask for a referral for an evaluation and treatment by a psychiatrist, rather than a psychologist. (Different pay grade, different skill sets, plus the ability to prescribe medicine and the like.)

You could carry on like you are (blaming everyone else) but if you do, you run the risk of losing your husband and your children.

One more thing... have you been checked out for Autism? 

There seems some ASD traits in what you have told us.

Your doctor can arrange an evaluation.

Meanwhile, here are some online tests you can try. (Usual caveats, online tests might not be 100% accurate, blah, blah, blah...)

http://www.aspergerstestsite.com/75/autism-spectrum-quotient-aq-test/

Autism / Asperger's Quiz

Easy Online Aspergers Test Quiz: Your Autism Quotient Score

*For the sake of you, your husband and your children, please get help ASAP.*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

carmen ohio said:


> Where is MattMatt?
> 
> If anyone can explain to LOTL what it must feel like to be her H, he can.


Yeah. OP triggered me, it has to be said. 

Though the OP is far, far worse than my wife, TBH.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I very much understand what you are saying and actually experience many of the same counter intuitive reactions. I have struggled for decades to understand human logic and found that it is often impossible for me to comprehend.

You must come to understand that most humans are not capable of grasping your resolve and your matter-of-fact statement of certainty. Many of them are not trusting of their own resolve much less that of another. I do understand when you say you are perplexed by your H's anger over words. To you it is merely an amusement, a passtime, certainly not something to become enraged over. What you are unable to see is that most humans assign their thoughts, their convictions, their insecurities, their shortcomings to others as if they are universal. They simply can not understand someone stating so confidently what will or will not happen, they cannot grasp that level of self awareness and control.

Your H will most likely never comprehend your trustworthiness and you will most likely never understand why. You see things very much in black and white whereas most humans see many varying shades of gray. Gray areas leave much room for doubt and suspicion.

As to offering you marital assistance, you must practice your empathy.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> No, it seems I don't. The whole paradigm seems exceedingly bizarre and set up for failure. Yet our society is built on the premise of the nuclear family being a sustainable and workable module. It just leaves me confused.


Look, here's the bottom line...

Your general views w/ respect to love, sex, and marriage -- along w/ your more specific views w/ respect to what is and isn't acceptable behavior within a marriage -- are incompatible w/ the more traditional views that your husband seems to hold.

So what can the two of you do about this? _Realistically_ speaking, you basically have three options...

1) Live within your husband's more traditional -- and more widely accepted -- views regarding marriage. Without offering any additional commentary, I'll say this... given everything that you've contributed in this thread thus far, I get the impression that this may leave you feeling confined, constricted, and unfulfilled. Not good.

2) Your husband can accept your refusal to live within his more traditionally-held views, which will likely leave him feeling disrespected, unappreciated, and unloved. (He's already at that point, by the way.) Also not good.

3) Whether amicably or otherwise, divorce.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Quigster said:


> The undercurrent I'm detecting in your post that you have some difficulty interacting with other humans. You seem to not understand why some social conventions exist, or why some people act the way they do.


This is very true. I do not understand humans. At all. Most seem overwrought, illogical, and foolish. I feel as though I was abandoned here by another species as a sick experiment in cosmic sociology. 




> This is one of the things I'm talking about. Engaging in all sorts of sexual activity but remaining a "technical virgin" isn't the same as actually saving yourself for marriage. I'm not judging one way or the other, but it's hypocritical for you to pretend.


"technical virgin" was a bit tongue in cheek. I know what I did was wrong by all the standards I was brought up with. I had a high sex drive in my teens and I wasn't interested in curbing it, but I also didn't want to take the final step and have full intercourse because I was scared of it. It was too much, too intimate, too dangerous. I avoided it as long as possible. Literally to the last minute.




> Clearly, sex doesn't do it for you. That's fine. You've got to understand that for most people, it's not simply a physical release. It's a way for a couple to bond and become emotionally connected. Just because you aren't experiencing this emotional connection does not mean that anyone who wants sex from you is just doing it because you're the only one they're allowed to "use" or that it's "convenient."


I can greatly enjoy sex. I dislike it when it is expected or demanded of me. I dislike being expected to feel what I don't feel. The physical sensations are quite nice, and I am very good at it. But I really don't see what gets people so emotional about it anymore than one would get emotional about any other bodily function. It is just biology. Sex causes a lot of chemical changes in the brain. Allowing those changes to overrule higher thought processes is illogical. 
As far as H wanting sex with me....I am certain it is just a biological urge. He coats it with emotions and tries to tell me all sorts of nonsense that I think he actually believes, but the fact remains that he wants sex, and I am the only warm body available to him. It isn't ME he wants, it's my body. And I'm fine with that, but let's call a spade a spade. 




> Do you experience any sort of emotional connection with your children? Do you love them?


I am not emotional with my children and I find them quite irritating most days. Yet I can see that they are very good children, as far as children go. I get along with my youngest the best, as he is least like me. My oldest shares many of my traits and he and I clash. His teen years are going to be a disaster. I did not bond with him at all until he was 3 months old and in fact asked my H if we could put him up for adoption. That did not go over well. On a daily basis I do not enjoy interaction with my children and I think everyone who knows me knows this. The children know this and we have a suitable arrangement where they keep to themselves and need minimum oversight. However....I have experienced very very strong emotion in connection to them and that "mother bear" instinct has come into play when my youngest was in danger. I feel very protective towards them. Occasionally I even feel affectionate. So I would say that I love them, as much as I am capable. Nature makes sure human parents are suitably bonded with young children. It is the only thing that ensures their survival. We adults would not tolerate them otherwise. 





> And you don't understand why this is a problem?! I think maybe this sort of thing might be why people believe you're deliberately trolling. It's just so completely far outside of the norm.


 I am not trolling. There are much more interesting places on the internet to look for attention if that were the case. The people here are very emotional and aggressive. This is not a playground I would choose. I am here because this is where the normal people come. I am observing you and am interested in your observations of me. I am fully aware that there will be nastiness and anger flung at me. That is fine. That interests me as well. But well reasoned and informative posts such as yours are the main reason I am here. 




> I read this paragraph and I come away feeling like you're a sadistic and pathological person. Generally speaking, people do not have interactions with other people with the intent to manipulate them or provoke specific reactions for their own amusement.


I scored high on tests diagnosing sociopathy. The one thing that keeps me from being a true sociopath is that I am not a liar. I have no need to lie and am quite honest. Brutally so at times. Humans use other humans all the time, for everything. No one likes to look too closely at it, but there it is. The whole social structure is one human using another to get a need met. We can call it all sorts of names but it all boils down to manipulation of our environment. Some just have the balls to be open about it. 




> Have you considered the possibility that pair-bonding in a monogamous relationship is simply not for you? I think you're going to find that ANYONE who gets into a relationship with you is going to look at sex as a bonding activity. The kind of emotional, detached sex that you seem to want may be available from one-night stands or visiting prostitutes.


This indeed has occurred to me. Unfortunately, not until quite recently. Getting married and having kids seemed like my only option at the time. There was nothing else I could do and that is what all my friends were doing and it was just what was done. It didn't occur to me NOT to do it as it seemed like the normal thing to do and at that stage I was still desperately trying to be normal. 





> I can't believe this requires an explanation. It seems so obvious to me. However, since you seem to be genuinely confused, here's the answer. You're supposed to be jealous if he is interested in other women. You're supposed to be furious if he has sex with anyone else. By telling him to go out and have sex with other people, you're telling him you don't care if he's committed to you and you don't care if he falls in love with some other woman that he beds.


It doesn't occur to me to get jealous because I don't understand why he would fall in love with someone he beds. Would you fall in love with someone you ate dinner with? Went swimming with? It just doesn't make any sense to me to get so upset over one activity vs another. I want him to be happy. If he is happy having sex with only me, that is fine. If he finds someone else more interesting or appealing, that is fine too. It doesn't affect me either way. That is his choice. It is his body. I really don't feel like I deserve a say in the matter. 





> I would normally call this sort of thing an "emotional affair," but since you don't seem to experience emotions the way a normal human does, perhaps a different term is required. Something like "non-sexual affair." Sleeping with somebody else is not the only way to cross that line. Forming a connection with another person (usually an emotional connection, though apparently not in your case) is another.


Here is the crux of the matter. What is the "line"? Is there some sort of generalized knowledge about this that I don't know? I knew that sleeping around, the actual sex was taboo and that my wedding vows forbade that. But this forming connections...why is that wrong? At what point is a connection wrong? If I have sexual conversations and flirtations with women, is that wrong? Again, no interest in actual sex with anyone other than H. But he can't separate the two in his head and I can't mesh them in mine.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> As far as H wanting sex with me....I am certain it is just a biological urge. He coats it with emotions and tries to tell me all sorts of nonsense that I think he actually believes, but the fact remains that he wants sex, and I am the only warm body available to him. It isn't ME he wants, it's my body. And I'm fine with that, but let's call a spade a spade.


If your husband is at all like most husbands (those of us who love our wives, anyway), then you're roughly 100% incorrect.

As for the rest of that last reply... WOW.

Unless your husband is the most self-flagellatingly masochistic guy ever, you should probably prepare yourself for a divorce.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Austism or psychopathic? Just feel really bad for hubby and kids.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

brooklynAnn said:


> Austism or psychopathic? Just feel really bad for hubby and kids.


It's funny that she mentioned sociopathy in her last reply because my initial comment in this thread was originally...

"Wow.

I'm guessing that best case has you somewhere in the ASD spectrum. Worst case you're at least mildly sociopathic."


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

LOTL, are you willing to accept that the way you feel (or, don't feel) is not typical of most adults in relationships? I don't want to say you are "wrong," because I believe this is truly how you are wired with whatever your diagnosis is. But, are you willing to understand and accept that your way of thinking is not at all typical/normal?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> I very much understand what you are saying and actually experience many of the same counter intuitive reactions. I have struggled for decades to understand human logic and found that it is often impossible for me to comprehend.
> 
> You must come to understand that most humans are not capable of grasping your resolve and your matter-of-fact statement of certainty. Many of them are not trusting of their own resolve much less that of another. I do understand when you say you are perplexed by your H's anger over words. To you it is merely an amusement, a passtime, certainly not something to become enraged over. What you are unable to see is that most humans assign their thoughts, their convictions, their insecurities, their shortcomings to others as if they are universal. They simply can not understand someone stating so confidently what will or will not happen, they cannot grasp that level of self awareness and control.
> ...



Thank you. I found this post enlightening, especially the part about humans assigning their emotions universally. I remember my mother telling me something like that when I was young. That does help me understand my H better.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> Austism or psychopathic? Just feel really bad for hubby and kids.


It's probably high functioning Asperger's, at a guess.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> It's probably high functioning Asperger's, at a guess.


Was my guess too after reading her first post before any responses.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I can easily see why readers of your earlier posts thought you might be trolling. It's not so much your story that is provocative, but the attitude that you bring to it.

But let's assume that this is genuine:

You sound like a sociopath. The social persona that you describe as your own is clearly outside the norm.

I certainly feel sorry for your husband, but most especially I feel for your poor children. They will need a lot of therapy if their father isn't able to counteract the damage you do to them.

You ask what you have done wrong. If you knew how you felt (or more to the point, couldn't feel) about children, you shouldn't have had any. If you didn't know, then what you are doing wrong is failing to formally address your obvious emotional deficits as a parent.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

I feel so sorry for your husband

Best thing to do is to ask for a D before you break his heart even more

You fail at every level to understand what a normal person expects...*EXPECTS* from a marriage

Your moral compass is pointed in a different direction than most people and it would be best to find some one who thinks along similar lines

I'm in no way condemning you BUT you do have a different slant on marriage on what is acceptable and what isn't than the norm


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

G.J. said:


> I feel so sorry for your husband
> 
> Best thing to do is to ask for a D before you break his heart even more
> 
> ...


But that said, I have been with my wife for 26 years.:smthumbup:


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> Your H will most likely never comprehend your trustworthiness and you will most likely never understand why.


You had me agreeing, until this point. Even if I believe she was just stroking her ego, she ended the trustworthy argument with this act:



> *I finally agreed to give up the man* just for some peace and because my H was in such a state. He was so emotional and crying and so upset...all over some conversations. It makes no sense at all to me, still to this day. Anyway, I deleted the man. Then a few weeks later *the man and I were involved in organizing a competition together so I added him back to FB.* The chats started up soon after, innocent at first and then he became graphic again.


This led to all of his other actions and lack of trust.

Anyway, divorce and have fun. He shouldn't try to change you, nor you him.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Impossible to really diagnose on an internet forum....but LOTL's responses are almost classic examples of high level Asperger's...a condition I have encountered several times in my 20+ years as an educator.

I know from the experience of dealing with these students....as frustrating, and even enraging, as some of their statements and actions can be, to a large extent these words and actions are not INTENDED to be to offensive or upset us.

Assuming she has this condition, when LOTL says that she cannot understand why something is such a big fuss, or cause for drama, she is not lying or being deceptive.

People with this condition truly DO NOT know.

Often times with treatment and therapy, they can learn to better understand others and interact in a more normalized manner....but if LOTL has never been to see specialists to help her cope with her condition and learn how to adapt her behaviors to get along better and more smoothly with others (and based on what she has shared, she has not had therapy or treatment) it is no wonder that her M is turning into a disaster over these issues.

The thing to remember....LOTL is not being intentionally cruel or vicious.....when she says she doesn't get it, I believe her (again, assuming she is indeed a high functioning Asperger's who has never had proper treatment or therapy).


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The big reason this sounds trollish is that you write as an intelligent woman. That begs the question, wondering why you don't understand other humans, how is it with the available information available on the internet and elsewhere you don't have a clue what is going on with you, your family of origin issues, your husband's love for you, etc.

Logically you would have questioned this years before now simply out of curiosity.

For example, you say people are attracted to you until they get to know you. Haven't you ever wondered why?

There are many amoral people by the way. Only a small percentage turn out to be dangerous, unfeeling psychopaths. Those mimic human emotions very well. You seem not to understand or even care to be seen as normal.

While you see yourself as logical, misunderstanding a premise in a logical construction makes the construction illogical by definition. Your assumptions are illogical.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Chap,

If she is high functioning Asperger's, then the likelihood is that she is HIGHLY intelligent.

I know all of the students that I have had with the condition were wicked smart....EXCEPT when it came to emotions and human interactions.

In those areas they were worse than a toddler without intensive treatment and therapy.


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> This is very true. I do not understand humans. At all. Most seem overwrought, illogical, and foolish. I feel as though I was abandoned here by another species as a sick experiment in cosmic sociology.


It's obvious that you look at the world differently than most of the people in this world. That doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't mean you're wrong. However, it does mean that your entire life is going to be filled with conflict. You interact with people very differently than they're expecting. I think you could find true happiness with another person if it was just the right person. Somebody who sees the world like you do... somebody who approaches human interaction logically rather than emotionally. You may not be able to find that kind of fulfillment in your current marriage. You and your husband are just so fundamentally different.



> But I really don't see what gets people so emotional about it anymore than one would get emotional about any other bodily function. It is just biology. Sex causes a lot of chemical changes in the brain. Allowing those changes to overrule higher thought processes is illogical.


You're right; it's illogical. However, most people are not able to look at the world logically as you do. A person's emotional feelings about a situation can frequently override their rational thought process. This is what people mean when they talk about following their heart. For most people, the sexual act can completely short-circuit their rational thinking patterns. Maybe it's just a biological function, as you say. I read somewhere once that love is just a trick nature uses to get us to reproduce. It certainly stands to reason that if I have a strong emotional investment in my sex partner, I am more likely to remain with her, more likely to care for children we have, and more likely to continue surviving as a species. 

In some ways, you're at an advantage. If your mind is not clouded by emotion when you enter into a sexual relationship, then you can make some cool, informed choices about the future of that relationship. A lot of people can't do that effectively. It also puts you at a disadvantage, because you will be confounded and confused when people develop an emotional attachment to you after sex. You're going to have to accept and recognize that a sexual component in any relationship is going to foster these feelings in most other people, even if it doesn't affect you this way.



> As far as H wanting sex with me....I am certain it is just a biological urge. He coats it with emotions and tries to tell me all sorts of nonsense that I think he actually believes, but the fact remains that he wants sex, and I am the only warm body available to him. It isn't ME he wants, it's my body. And I'm fine with that, but let's call a spade a spade.


You don't understand the emotional facet to sex, or you suspect it doesn't exist. For you, perhaps that's true. I can promise you it's not the same for him. He really does want to have sex with you in order to feel close to you, to express his love for you, and to bond with you and connect with you. If he was interested in the physical release only, he could satisfy a biological urge by masturbating or paying a prostitute for sex. He chooses you, and keeps coming back to you, not just because you're the most convenient outlet for his urges. It's because he loves you and wants to be close to you.



> I would say that I love them, as much as I am capable. Nature makes sure human parents are suitably bonded with young children. It is the only thing that ensures their survival. We adults would not tolerate them otherwise.


I would say this is true with most animals, but don't you think that human sociology is a little more complex than that? 

I'm concerned about your kids. They're going to have a tough time growing up, and understanding their mother, if they don't share the same outlook on the world that you do. The way you interact with people (including the way you freely manipulate their affections) is also going to inform how your kids behave when they grow up and enter into relationships of their own. 



> But well reasoned and informative posts such as yours are the main reason I am here.


I'm happy to help. :smile2:



> Humans use other humans all the time, for everything. No one likes to look too closely at it, but there it is. The whole social structure is one human using another to get a need met. We can call it all sorts of names but it all boils down to manipulation of our environment. Some just have the balls to be open about it.


I applaud your honestly and your frankness. You're right that we play a lot of games and do a lot of pretending. The problem is, when you are too honest and too candid in what you want, people won't give it to you. You are expected to play the game when you interact socially. You risk hurting people's feelings when you are too blunt. You've already explained that you have trouble understanding why people get upset with you sometimes. Learning to identify what will upset people is a skill that you're going to need to learn. I think most people have an intuitive sense of what's upsetting and what's not, because they use their own emotions as a compass. I think your lack of empathy prevents you from doing this.



> It doesn't occur to me to get jealous because I don't understand why he would fall in love with someone he beds. Would you fall in love with someone you ate dinner with? Went swimming with?


Let's see if I can express this in purely biological terms. As you mentioned, sex releases chemicals in the brain. It creates a euphoric effect. People interpret this chemical response emotionally, and if the response is strong enough, it triggers the sensation that they love this person, or are in love with them. 

In this scenario, if your husband went looking for sex outside the marriage and found a woman who illicited a strong chemical response, then he would cease using his rational mind and allow himself to be led by his emotions. If he felt as though he was getting a better, stronger chemical response from her than from you, he might seek to be with her. He would not be thinking logically; he would be allowing his feelings to guide his actions.



> If he is happy having sex with only me, that is fine. If he finds someone else more interesting or appealing, that is fine too. I really don't feel like I deserve a say in the matter.


He's not going to be able to just have sex with another woman without developing an emotional attachment to her. You are able to separate the act of sex from the emotional connection, but he can't do that. When you got married to him, you two entered into a kind of social contract. One of the stipulations of that contract was that you two would engage in sex only with each other, and not seek it outside the marriage. You absolutely do have a say in the matter. For you to tell him you don't care who he has sex with is problematic and potentially dangerous. You are, in effect, giving him permission to fall in love with another woman and leave you. He feels like you're telling him you don't care whether he does this or not.



> Here is the crux of the matter. What is the "line"? Is there some sort of generalized knowledge about this that I don't know? I knew that sleeping around, the actual sex was taboo and that my wedding vows forbade that. But this forming connections...why is that wrong? At what point is a connection wrong? If I have sexual conversations and flirtations with women, is that wrong?


It's the type of connections that you form that are the problem. If you socialize with other people, talk to them at the gym, strike up conversations at the supermarket, etc. then that's fine. You CANNOT have any interactions that include a sexual component. This includes leading people on and making them believe you are sexually attracted to them! I promise you that this kind of behavior will upset your husband every single time! Whether or not you are able to understand his strong emotional reaction about it, you've got to at least accept that it's going to happen. 

There are going to be people out there who are sexually attracted to you. If they show sexual interest in you, and you choose to respond in kind (i.e., if you participate in flirting with them, or conversations of a sexual nature), then you will be sending them the signal that you are interested in a sexual encounter with them and that you are not committed to your husband. If you wish to remain with your husband, then your participation in this kind of flirting must stop. I would recommend a response like, "Sorry, I'm married" or "I need to get home to my husband now." 

I think it's great that you're seeking to understand, and I think you can probably adapt, and eliminate a lot of your problems, by undergoing a shift in your outlook. It may be enormously challenging for you. You'll have to keep in mind that most people are emotional creatures and will react very differently than you do. I do wish you the best of luck and I sincerely hope you are successful.


Quigster


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> The big reason this sounds trollish is that you write as an intelligent woman. That begs the question, wondering why you don't understand other humans, how is it with the available information available on the internet and elsewhere you don't have a clue what is going on with you, your family of origin issues, your husband's love for you, etc.
> 
> Logically you would have questioned this years before now simply out of curiosity.
> 
> ...


My wife pulls stuff similar to the OP. She can't "get" things, either. 

She could be a member of MENSA but never wanted to join for several reasons.

Being clever doesn't give folks street smarts. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I think your problem is that everything is about you and nothing else matters. Your a selfish cruel person that doesn't give a damn about anyone elses feelings but you own. 

Honestly with your attitude and behavior, if I was your husband, I would have thrown you out with just the clothes on your back and told you to go get help because you need it but you being the know it all would try to tell the doctor that he's' wrong. I would hate like hell to have to look at life through your eyes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lady,

Has anyone ever betrayed you, stole from you, or done anything to you that truly hurt your feelings, made you angry, have any other very strong emotion?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Being clever doesn't give folks street smarts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too bad this isn't about street smarts.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

6301 said:


> I think your problem is that everything is about you and nothing else matters. Your a selfish cruel person that doesn't give a damn about anyone elses feelings but you own.
> 
> Honestly with your attitude and behavior, if I was your husband, I would have thrown you out with just the clothes on your back and told you to go get help because you need it but you being the know it all would try to tell the doctor that he's' wrong. I would hate like hell to have to look at life through your eyes.


She probably is not selfish or cruel.

She really, REALLY doesn't understand what the problem is, or what is wrong.

That is what her condition does.

It is hell to live with as a spouse, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Lady,
> 
> Has anyone every betrayed you, stole from you, or done anything to you that truly hurt your feelings, made you angry, have any other very strong emotion?


Honestly it sounds like BOTH of her parents spent YEARS doing plenty of that. Given that she spent more time w/ her mother (that's how I read her OP), though, she viewed her mother's shortcomings as far more grievous than those of her father.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Hunh? When did she get diagnosed?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Hunh? When did she get diagnosed?


Unclear, but this was back on page 1...



GusPolinski said:


> Wow.
> 
> Can I ask a question?
> 
> Have you ever been diagnosed as being somewhere within the ASD spectrum?





LadyOfTheLake said:


> Yes. Is that relevant?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

MattMatt,

I agree.

Getting all offended and outraged at them is missing the point to some extent.

You are getting angry at a person with a mental condition beyond their control.

Its frustrating as h*ll to deal with people with this condition....but the first step in doing so is realizing that they are NOT being intentionally obtuse, arrogant, entitled, or selfish.

They truly have a perception of the world and others in it that is alien to the way most of us experience the same world.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Too bad this isn't about street smarts.


My wife can't easily walk home down our street when she is coming home, if someone has painted their gate or even left a gate open.

Different makes her panic. It is quite distressing to see her fearful reaction.

And she is just over 50. Been that way all her life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

No, it is quite alright to be offended, outraged and angered. You aren't missing any point. If you have empathy you understand it may be out of their control and treat your emotions and them accordingly. You either learn to live with it or move on. Nope, I do not think either option is right or wrong, it is what is best for that person.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Meanwhile, here are some online tests you can try. (Usual caveats, online tests might not be 100% accurate, blah, blah, blah...)
> 
> http://www.aspergerstestsite.com/75/autism-spectrum-quotient-aq-test/
> 
> ...


FWIW, Matt, I've taken a few of these, and the results consistently come back w/ things like "Autism Likely".

Just like this time.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My wife can't easily walk home down our street when she is coming home, if someone has painted their gate or even left a gate open.
> 
> Different makes her panic. It is quite distressing to see her fearful reaction.
> 
> ...


"Street smarts" means something totally different to you and me.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

MattMatt,

Yep....that's another thing about people with this condition.

They HATE unpredictability....don't know how to react or deal with it properly.

So when other people get emotional and upset with them....it just confuses and irritates them all the more.

They are creatures of routine and regimen in their daily lives...and they try to push away people or situations that bring chaos (as they see it) into their day to day lives.

Probably why LOTL told her H to go have 'emotional' or 'cuddly' sex with someone else when he was so upset with her about things.....classic 'don't bother me with this' pushing away behavior for high level Asperger's.

Also why the chaos of her kids (kids being almost nothing but chaos) irritates her.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I completely understand that LOTL is on the spectrum, so I get that side of her posts. However, the fact that she derives pleasure from manipulating other people is something other than ASD. An Aspie won't get why something bothers a neurotypical person. But neither are they going to intentionally use and manipulate people because they enjoy toying with others. That's something darker and more malignant than just "doesn't get it". That's "get's off on other people's pain". The difference between her and a garden-variety psychopath is that she's an Aspie so it doesn't occur to her to lie or conceal her psychopathic behaviors. 

I think what's happened is that a child on the spectrum was raised by one or both parents who were likely manifesting personality disorders. She either inherited or learned to mimic the psychopathic tendencies of her parent(s). This is not just an Aspie being an Aspie.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Rowan,

Great insight....yes that is not an aspect of Asperger's.

Given what she shared of her horrible father, a serial cheater who tormented her mother, I would bet that he is the source for those sociopathic attitudes and behaviors.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rowan said:


> I completely understand that LOTL is on the spectrum, so I get that side of her posts. However, the fact that she derives pleasure from manipulating other people is something other than ASD. An Aspie won't get why something bothers a neurotypical person. But neither are they going to intentionally use and manipulate people because they enjoy toying with others. That's something darker and more malignant than just "doesn't get it". That's "get's off on other people's pain". The difference between her and a garden-variety psychopath is that she's an Aspie so it doesn't occur to her to lie or conceal her psychopathic behaviors.
> 
> I think what's happened is that a child on the spectrum was raised by one or both parents who were likely manifesting personality disorders. She either inherited or learned to mimic the psychopathic tendencies of her parent(s). This is not just an Aspie being an Aspie.


Good call. More like ASD w/ a bit of sado-sociopathy thrown in.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It is sad to say I understand OP.....your can't hurt steel... So you can't be hurt,so there is a wall, a thick wall you put up so #1 you can't get hurt and #2 hurting others is blocked out, you just don't hurt when you hurt others cuz of the wall one has built.

It suck but we here at TAM read about it all the time. usually it's come from the one being hurt and not the one doing the hurting.

On a positive note, if one wants to get help and learn some tools to be emotionally healthier they figure out sympathy and empathy and they just stop taking from others......In my case giving just seems to work out!

Especially if I have to smack someone to take what I'm giving them .LOL

In short some folks just want to take! And with that said the other half of my life is a lot better then the first half, knowing phucking people over will not make me happy.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

afab said:


> I cant believe I am reading this. Sorry YOU CANT BE HELPED.
> Its your husband who needs help not you.


I completely agree. For the others - NOT Aspergers. Troll or Narcissism.

On the remote chance you are for real, there may be help for you, but not from anyone here. Consult a professional who specializes in N. Show them your first post.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/romance-redux/201309/can-narcissists-change

EDIT - I see Rowan has posted something similar.

Best,
- Sapi


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I say this with great respect. If you truly cant understand why your husband is so upset, and your disgusting disrespectful behavour towards him please seek some professional help


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> http://www.aspergerstestsite.com/75/autism-spectrum-quotient-aq-test/
> 
> 
> Interesting resource Matt. I scored a 44 on this one. Makes some sense as I had to study people for years to learn how to fit.
> ...


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

I am not seeing that she likes to hurt people intentionally.

She did reply "YES" to the question if she is on the Autism Spectrum Disorder. For those of you who have ever met anyone with high functioning Autism, you would understand that they can be highly intelligent people, yet are missing a lot of the social and emotional skills. To call her a troll because she speaks intelligently but doesn't understand her husbands response to her behaviors is unfair, given her diagnosis. 

I also noticed that she mentioned her mother has Bipolar Disorder. So there could be more than Autism going on here.

Lady - to answer your question. "Help me understand what I've done wrong?" I think you know, that you will need the help of professionals to help you learn to adapt to the way most folks think when it comes to social cues and emotions. You can learn to adapt.


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## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

I do notice you have come back and replied. But what everyone here has said hasn't made a blind bit of difference. You just dont understand what they are saying. Someone has compared you to an animal. Although I think they also dont go about sex like they go about food which to you are 'equal' bodily functions. You pick and choose what you eat and the same with sex. 
I dont think this can be explained to you. Their is a concept that if you eat certain foods your body can become 'bad', it can be the same with sex, if you have it with certain people (meaning not your husband) the same applies. At least as far as your husband is concerned. I suppose the only analogy that you can understand is equating sex with food. Also if you have eaten a certain food in a 'bad' environment you can be put off it for life although there is nothing wrong with the food. The same is with sex. Having been with another man can also be a put off.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Lady,
> 
> Has anyone ever betrayed you, stole from you, or done anything to you that truly hurt your feelings, made you angry, have any other very strong emotion?


I do not have strong emotions. I suppose I did as a teenager, when I was placed on antidepressants, but it is difficult for me to remember that time. I know I am capable of great rage if triggered by certain things, but I work hard to control that. 90% of the time I am emotionally stable and neutral, neither up nor down.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Unclear, but this was back on page 1...


I was diagnosed several years ago by a specialist. Not specifically as Aspergers, since I do not have obsessive interests in highly specialized subjects, nor do I have stims or other diagnostic imperatives. However, since then I have discovered it can be very difficult to accurately diagnose adult females with Aspergers, as women present very differently and can more easily adapt to neurotypical norms. Regardless of the category, I was placed on the spectrum.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My wife can't easily walk home down our street when she is coming home, if someone has painted their gate or even left a gate open.
> 
> Different makes her panic. It is quite distressing to see her fearful reaction.
> 
> ...


I get lost all the time. And I've lived in the same area my whole life. Interesting to know that someone else is similar.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I think what's happened is that a child on the spectrum was raised by one or both parents who were likely manifesting personality disorders. She either inherited or learned to mimic the psychopathic tendencies of her parent(s). This is not just an Aspie being an Aspie.


I think there is something to this. I agree that the sanity of both my parents is questionable and I've doubtless inherited their defects. On top of that I had to adapt to survive them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> "Street smarts" means something totally different to you and me.


I also use the more common sense of street smarts, too! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

From the way you write about the marriage issues, it is plain as day that you do not think the way a normal feeling person would, so you need help for yourself first, some sort of therapy to deal with your lack of emotions. It might be good that your poor BS hears from the therapist as to what your problem is as he is probably feeling very hurt and betrayed right now.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Lady. Aren't you smart enough to study people and learn to interact successfully?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can. But it is immensely stressful and confusing for me. I can mimic normal behavior, toe the line, keep up standards. But I'm just playing along. I have no idea why people are expecting me to behave in those ways anymore than a dolphin understands why it does tricks at MarineLand. The last few years have seen me trying less and less and being more authentic to my true self. It has also been the time when more of my marital problems began.

My H says he does not like the "new" me. I say it's not new, it's just not hidden anymore. I'm done pretending to be normal. I will still try to understand it, and find insight on normal people rather fascinating and enlightening. I like discovering why people do what they do, even when I can't relate. 

For my husband's sake, I'm willing to mimic socially acceptable behaviours in public. I try not to offend or shock people and he acts as my translator when I don't understand what is going on. However, there are times, as in this situation detailed in my OP when I just DON'T understand him, and he becomes so emotional that he can't be logical. And we have the same fights over and over again. The more emotional he gets, the less chance we have of obtaining resolution. 

I can study people and mimic them to the point where I pass as normal to the casual observer. But I think it is unfair that I have to change to fit your mold, when I honestly feel my way of thinking and doing things is much more practical. I often feel like I'm dumbing down just to fit in and that is exhausting.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I can barely stand the drama I have right now.


Even if you can't understand the emotional needs of others, why can't you understand plain logic?

You violate your husband's boundaries, he gets upset. Even if you don't understand it, this is plain logic that you know about, he has told you about it, and yet you do it again and again....why are you surprised at his reactions? Yes you don't understand his reactions, but he has TOLD YOU and shown you how he will react, therefore you KNOW he will react this way. Ergo, if you didn't want drama, you wouldn't act in ways that would cause guaranteed drama for yourself and your nuclear family.

You are the cause of all of your own drama, yet you blame it on others. You claim you can't stand it, but what you really can't stand is your "boring housewife life" so you stir up drama and then act surprised at the fallout. Even though it is predictable and logical.

Face your own desire for drama and sort it out within yourself.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Besides sociopathy, you may be this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I can. But it is immensely stressful and confusing for me. I can mimic normal behavior, toe the line, keep up standards. But I'm just playing along. I have no idea why people are expecting me to behave in those ways anymore than a dolphin understands why it does tricks at MarineLand.* The last few years have seen me trying less and less and being more authentic to my true self. It has also been the time when more of my marital problems began.
> *
> 
> My H says *he does not like the "new" me*. I say it's not new, it's just not hidden anymore.* I'm done pretending to be normal.* I will still try to understand it, and find insight on normal people rather fascinating and enlightening. I like discovering why people do what they do, even when I can't relate.
> ...


So by reading back what you have posted do you think *the new you *and your husband will still be married in another 5 years


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

Dear LOTL,

I thank you for your openness, but I think that your 'condition' is above our pay grade. However, I wish you strength in navigating through your life and hope that you will be able to find a little peace and satisfaction.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> *I can. But it is immensely stressful and confusing for me*. I can mimic normal behavior, toe the line, keep up standards. But I'm just playing along. *I have no idea why people are expecting me to behave in those ways anymore than a dolphin understands why it does tricks at MarineLand*. The last few years have seen me trying less and less and being more authentic to my true self. It has also been the time when more of my marital problems began.


I often find it more frustrating than confusing but I have been at this longer than you so I have developed a minimal understanding of the behavior. They expect this behavior, much like the dolphin's, because it is how they want you to behave to service them (society).



> My H says he does not like the "new" me. I say it's not new, it's just not hidden anymore. I'm done pretending to be normal. I will still try to understand it, and find insight on normal people rather fascinating and enlightening. I like discovering why people do what they do, even when I can't relate.


I find it fascinating as well. 



> For my husband's sake, I'm willing to mimic socially acceptable behaviours in public. I try not to offend or shock people and he acts as my translator when I don't understand what is going on. However, there are times, as in this situation detailed in my OP when I just DON'T understand him, and he becomes so emotional that he can't be logical. And we have the same fights over and over again. The more emotional he gets, the less chance we have of obtaining resolution.


It is almost impossible for most humans to debate (argue) without emotion. Once anger presents, then the discussion is over and only fighting ensues. 



> I can study people and mimic them to the point where I pass as normal to the casual observer. *But I think it is unfair that I have to change to fit your mold, when I honestly feel my way of thinking and doing things is much more practical. I often feel like I'm dumbing down just to fit in and that is exhausting*.


But this is where you must come to understand that you are the dolphin in the tank. If you were in your environment then you could behave "normally" but you are not and if you ever hope to have an existence that even resembles "normal" (some happiness and contentment) then you must accept that. It is difficult and I still fight extreme frustration but I have come to accept, mostly, the situation. As to its fairness, when is life fair?

We must adapt and conform to what is generally considered "normal" if wish to be "accepted". You can try to forge your own way but it will be difficult indeed in this tank. Good fortune to you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Emotions, jealousy, hate, anger, love and feelings etc. are not illogical. Not having them is illogical. Depending on your world view whether you believe in God or evoloution, these emotions are survival tools. For example, if someone threatens my kids that I "love" I get angry and do my best to defend them.

Your sexual flirting threatens your children's lives and happiness as well as your husbands. Having to divorce you hurts your husbands life and your kids. Flirting and being sexual with other men sends a clear signal you are not very interested in your husband or the welfare of your children. It sends them the signal you don't care/love for them and you are looking for someone better.

I have no clue what help is out there for you but a truly intelligent, inquisitive person would find it.

You mentioned you can have Mona bear instincts. You need to find counseling to protect your husband and children.

As it is you are avoiding responsibilities as your parents did. If you don't change this cycle your kids will do the same just as your parents no doubt learned their behavior from their parents.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I find it amusing that someone can think everyone else is illogical, while at the same time having no ability to understand the logical consequences of direct actions.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Rowan said:


> I completely understand that LOTL is on the spectrum, so I get that side of her posts. However, the fact that she derives pleasure from manipulating other people is something other than ASD. An Aspie won't get why something bothers a neurotypical person. But neither are they going to intentionally use and manipulate people because they enjoy toying with others. That's something darker and more malignant than just "doesn't get it". That's "get's off on other people's pain". The difference between her and a garden-variety psychopath is that she's an Aspie so it doesn't occur to her to lie or conceal her psychopathic behaviors.
> 
> I think what's happened is that a child on the spectrum was raised by one or both parents who were likely manifesting personality disorders. She either inherited or learned to mimic the psychopathic tendencies of her parent(s). This is not just an Aspie being an Aspie.


Actually it could well be just an Aspie being an Aspie. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

where_are_we said:


> I am not seeing that she likes to hurt people intentionally.
> 
> She did reply "YES" to the question if she is on the Autism Spectrum Disorder. For those of you who have ever met anyone with high functioning Autism, you would understand that they can be highly intelligent people, yet are missing a lot of the social and emotional skills. To call her a troll because she speaks intelligently but doesn't understand her husbands response to her behaviors is unfair, given her diagnosis.
> 
> ...


And if some people are looking to be hit with the big bad "BAN" hammer for running around screaming "trollllll" that's up to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I do not have strong emotions. I suppose I did as a teenager, when I was placed on antidepressants, but it is difficult for me to remember that time. I know I am capable of great rage if triggered by certain things, but I work hard to control that. 90% of the time I am emotionally stable and neutral, neither up nor down.


Oh, yeah. The great rages.

They can be very frightening. To be the recipient of the rage of an Aspie is something I can not recommend! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

You do know that the other men have desires including your science friend. Why would he send that picture, unless he thinks of you that way?

I do hope you seek help and try to put yourself in your H's shoes.

I definitely understand his reactions. I am just surprised that you are still married. You have had several chances. I do hope you change this time and stop all the games you play with other men.

Your H will never forget that you are choosing someone else over him, your facebook friend and your science friend. Your H has been burned several times and will not be able to keep recovering from your burns.

Good luck. I do hope you ask your H to go to counseling with you.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

Note to OP's husband...

Your wife has no feelings for you or your children.
She will never love you the way you need or want.
Your kids, unfortunately, will grow up screwed up.

Your life will never be what you envision as a normal life until you divorce your wife.

She is not a bad person, just someone you should not be with.

She will not change for you or anyone else, but she will give herself to anyone who shows her the "proper" attention... just not from you apparently.

I say divorce.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> You do know that the other men have desires including your science friend. Why would he send that picture, unless he thinks of you that way?


Oh I know all about men and their desires, that is what makes them so simple. I also knew the scientist wanted me and wanted more than I was going to give. But I had told him no pictures. I do not send pictures of myself and while we had swapped memes, none had ever been x-rated or even PG13. The photo was completely out of context and as it resulted in so much trouble, I am very aggravated that he was so stupid as to send it. Beyond being ignorant, it served no purpose. I had already said I would not send photos. 




> I do hope you seek help and try to put yourself in your H's shoes.


I have tried. When I flip the situation around, as though he were the one with the scientist friend...it really doesn't bother me. In fact, a few years ago I was under the impression he was having an intimate relationship with a friend of his. I was a little bit annoyed, but I didn't say anything. I didn't care much for the girl, but figured he had a right to his own friends and I was not inclined to interrupt what clearly didn't concern me. He now swears up and down that they were just friends and he was helping her get away from an abusive boyfriend...but...I really don't care what they were doing. It is none of my business. So I still have a hard time accepting that he cares so much about what conspires between me and other people. He had some girl crying in my garage. I find that more inappropriate than text messages. 



> Your H will never forget that you are choosing someone else over him, your facebook friend and your science friend. Your H has been burned several times and will not be able to keep recovering from your burns.
> 
> Good luck. I do hope you ask your H to go to counseling with you.


But I never chose anyone over him. I did not leave him, nor did I sleep with anyone else. I could have. I don't want to. I choose him every time this situation arises, when he gets emotional or unreasonable. I have a largely male following on social media and even that gets him upset, although not as much as it used to. I've even deleted people because he didn't like the way they interacted with me. I always choose him, but it is aggravating that I have to do it so often. 

We've discussed counselling, but neither of us are very interested. I've had my fill of medical professionals and he is unsure as to whether it would be helpful. He also thinks it would be a waste of money. 

Someone back in the thread said something about him being weak or masochistic. He is not. He is a very strong man. He bears great burdens and is very successful in his field. He is also physically very appealing. He looks like he just stepped out of an MMA ring. He is a weight lifter and body builder. There is nothing weak about him. He can bench press me, for heaven's sake.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

LOTL, you know your husband reacts badly to you having flirtatious conversations and intimate relationships with other men. It seems you were pretty clear on that after the first time. Surely you picked up on it by the second. 

This is a social convention which you have clearly violated. You don't really need to understand why it exists, only to accept that it does. I'm guessing that there are a number of social conventions to which you adhere, despite them being "illogical" and without really getting why they matter or even exist. This is one of those. Married women don't have intimate, flirtatious, sexually charged conversations with men who are not their husband. 

So, either stop doing that or stop being married. You don't really have to fully understand it or even have empathy for your husband to follow this convention. You just need to decide if it's more logical for you to obey this convention and remain married or ignore it and get divorced.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Okay I got a read on this. I'm still not convinced you aren't a troll, but on the chance you are not:

You are clearly intelligent. You are also quite bored. You seem to have either a worry or a need to "be different" from others. You clearly seek external attention from others, like your scientist person. Based on your posts, I would say that, indeed, you do seem to engage differently from how many others in society engage.

This is more common than you think, but the successful ones have adapted ways to interact with society in order to get needs met and goals achieved.

You might even be gifted. I can't assess based solely on your posts. What I do know is that you seem to have developed an alternative way of thinking that, currently, you aren't doing anything with. That is the tragedy of your current situation. Thinking different from others means nothing. Right now you are wasted potential.

I would suggest you spend your time thinking and writing down your ideas and creating some goals for yourself. Then develop strategies to meet those goals and finally, go out and execute on them.

Read Ayn Rand, Hypatia and Simone de Beauvoir for examples.

Good luck.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Rowan said:


> This is a social convention which you have clearly violated. You don't really need to understand why it exists, only to accept that it does. I'm guessing that there are a number of social conventions to which you adhere, despite them being "illogical" and without really getting why they matter or even exist. This is one of those. Married women don't have intimate, flirtatious, sexually charged conversations with men who are not their husband.


I DO need to know why it exists in order to accept it. There are plenty of social conventions I don't understand, or like, so I ignore them. I'm not following arbitrary rules just because everyone else does. I have to know WHY. 





> So, either stop doing that or stop being married.


Neither solution appeals. I contend that being married should not preclude being able to be an individual with interests and friends and activities that do not include the spouse. I am certainly not at all interested in H's activities, beyond those we have in common. I think it fair to expect the same in return.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I DO need to know why it exists in order to accept it. There are plenty of social conventions I don't understand, or like, so I ignore them. I'm not following arbitrary rules just because everyone else does. I have to know WHY.
> 
> Neither solution appeals. I contend that being married should not preclude being able to be an individual with interests and friends and activities that do not include the spouse. I am certainly not at all interested in H's activities, beyond those we have in common. I think it fair to expect the same in return.


Can you imagine your husband doing anything that would evoke a similar reaction in you?

You mentioned that you wouldn't care if you husband were to engage in a physically intimate relationship w/ another woman. OK. Fair enough.

But what if he fell in love w/ her?

What if he left you for her?


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Here is the crux of the matter. What is the "line"? Is there some sort of generalized knowledge about this that I don't know? I knew that sleeping around, the actual sex was taboo and that my wedding vows forbade that. But this forming connections...why is that wrong? At what point is a connection wrong? If I have sexual conversations and flirtations with women, is that wrong? Again, no interest in actual sex with anyone other than H. But he can't separate the two in his head and I can't mesh them in mine.


Like MattMatt, I've been married for 20+ years to a woman with ASD.

1. Neurotypicals (NTs) gain a generalized knowledge about the "line" from cultural inferences. Many Aspies have trouble making those inferences and need direct/blunt instruction. The "line" is a least common denominator idea. The stricter interpretation prevails.

2. Outside connections are generally good for a married woman. Outside connections based on sexual attraction (yours or theirs) are generally objectionable for a married woman.

3. When a conversation turns flirtatious...be blunt. Tell the person that you will not tolerate flirtation, sexual innuendo, or sexual advances. Walk away if they won't stop immediately.

BT


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

Quigster said:


> I would normally call this sort of thing an "emotional affair," but since you don't seem to experience emotions the way a normal human does, perhaps a different term is required. Something like "non-sexual affair." Sleeping with somebody else is not the only way to cross that line. Forming a connection with another person (usually an emotional connection, though apparently not in your case) is another.
> 
> Please respond to me and tell me that some of this is sinking in. I really hope that I'm getting through to you. It's extremely important that you understand this.


This was a hard thing for my wife and I to come to grips with. She had to understand that I couldn't accept her behaviors (that might ordinarily be called an emotional affair). I had to understand that she wasn't emotionally attached to the other, but rather was operating from a limited toolbox of social skills while trying to maintain connections.

BT


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Oh I know all about men and their desires, that is what makes them so simple.


We men are exceedingly simple.

Until, that is, we fall in love. Once that happens, all bets are off.


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> 1) Live within your husband's more traditional -- and more widely accepted -- views regarding marriage. Without offering any additional commentary, I'll say this... given everything that you've contributed in this thread thus far, I get the impression that this may leave you feeling confined, constricted, and unfulfilled. Not good.
> 
> 2) Your husband can accept your refusal to live within his more traditionally-held views, which will likely leave him feeling disrespected, unappreciated, and unloved. (He's already at that point, by the way.) Also not good.
> 
> 3) Whether amicably or otherwise, divorce.



Great insight Gus. My wife chose the first door. So far so good. No resentment. Making good connections with complimentary women. Door number two would lead to divorce eventually...as you surmised.

BT


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I DO need to know why it exists in order to accept it. There are plenty of social conventions I don't understand, or like, so I ignore them. I'm not following arbitrary rules just because everyone else does. I have to know WHY.
> 
> Neither solution appeals. I contend that being married should not preclude being able to be an individual with interests and friends and activities that do not include the spouse. I am certainly not at all interested in H's activities, beyond those we have in common. I think it fair to expect the same in return.


I'm afraid that you may simply have to accept that this social convention exists for the purpose of keeping those who obey it from hurting and offending their spouses to the point that the spouse leaves them. Think logically. Why persist in something that _does not _get you what you want and _does_ get you what you claim not to want? You have clearly observed that your husband reacts very negatively to you engaging with other men. If you persist in doing it, he will eventually leave you. You do not have to like that fact, but it is nevertheless a fact. If you do not want him to leave you, then the logical conclusion must be - no matter how much you wish it otherwise - that you need to stop doing things that you are aware from prior observation cause a negative reaction in him.


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Lady. Aren't you smart enough to study people and learn to interact successfully?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She may not see what you see. Mindblindness is a common trait in ASD.

Mind-blindness can be described as a cognitive disorder where an individual is unable to attribute mental states to the self and other. As a result of this disorder the individual is unaware of others' mental states. The individual is also not capable of attributing beliefs and desires to others.


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I DO need to know why it exists in order to accept it. There are plenty of social conventions I don't understand, or like, so I ignore them. I'm not following arbitrary rules just because everyone else does. I have to know WHY.


I can totally relate to this. There are a lot of things I feel like I have to do, but shouldn't have to. I don't see why I need to stop at a red light if there's no traffic anywhere on the road. I don't think I should have to pay eBay listing fees if my items don't sell. I don't think I should have to tip a waitress if her service is somewhat lackluster. I still do these things, though, because they're expected and there are consequences if I don't.

If you choose to ignore social conventions because they're confusing or inconvenient, then that's your choice. But you must understand that people will react differently than you want them do as a result. It may be in your best interest to play along, to do the dolphin tricks, in order to get the fish.



> I contend that being married should not preclude being able to be an individual with interests and friends and activities that do not include the spouse. I am certainly not at all interested in H's activities, beyond those we have in common. I think it fair to expect the same in return.


You're definitely allowed to have friends and acquaintances outside of your marriage. Only an unreasonably controlling and demanding husband would insist otherwise. It's healthy to have a social life. Your interactions with people outside the marriage simply must not include a sexual component. Any topics under the sun are fair game, as long as it doesn't turn to sex. When you start talking about sex, you're inviting the prospect of transforming a platonic relationship into a sexual one. You cannot permit this to happen if you wish to keep your marriage in good standing.

I understand that it's exhausting for you to try to live and interact as everyone else expects you to. I'm not asking you to pretend to be someone you're not. You're a fascinating individual and you have a wonderfully unique perspective. If you continue to violate these social conventions, though, you will continue to upset your husband. There may come a time when he's no longer willing to allow it and will leave you. I know you don't want this to happen. Playing the game and following these unwritten rules is your only recourse. It will save your marriage if you are willing to make the effort.


Quigster


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Big Tree said:


> This was a hard thing for my wife and I to come to grips with. She had to understand that I couldn't accept her behaviors (that might ordinarily be called an emotional affair). I had to understand that she wasn't emotionally attached to the other, but rather was operating from a limited toolbox of social skills while trying to maintain connections.
> 
> BT


If they aren't emotionally attached why are they doing it? Why doesn't the OP care enough for her husband to accept that her behavior is immoral?

To LOTL do you have a hard time not breaking laws? Laws codify morals. Basically you are arguing you should be able to act immorally simply because you want to.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I'm afraid that you may simply have to accept that this social convention exists for the purpose of keeping those who obey it from hurting and offending their spouses to the point that the spouse leaves them. Think logically. Why persist in something that _does not _get you what you want and _does_ get you what you claim not to want? You have clearly observed that your husband reacts very negatively to you engaging with other men. If you persist in doing it, he will eventually leave you. You do not have to like that fact, but it is nevertheless a fact. If you do not want him to leave you, then the logical conclusion must be - no matter how much you wish it otherwise - that you need to stop doing things that you are aware from prior observation cause a negative reaction in him.


Here is another root of the problem. I enjoy these interactions with men. I certainly understand men much better than women. I like men much more than women. I'm never going to have many women friends, for several reasons. My interactions with men vary from "Dance, puppet, dance" to " Let's have a beer and check out the waitress". So, I get a lot out of them. H understands that for the most part. Where he goes off the rails is when sex gets involved. And sex will always get involved with men. He doesn't understand using sex as social currency and that is how I function. Well....that is how everyone functions...I just freely and openly admit it and enjoy it. 

Anyway. I want him to understand that I can interact with both men and women in these ways and it won't end up with me in bed with anyone. In fact, the more involved someone gets with me, the less attracted I am to them. So....it's kind of impossible for me to have a real affair lmao...anyone who'd want to would be a turn off for me!!

I've never wanted to leave him. Even when he has been going through things that made him difficult and trying. We've been through so much and he knows me better than anyone on this planet. If it weren't for this one issue, we'd be completely content. But I fear we are both too stubborn to ever reach a true consensus. I think we both feel like we give and give and give....I feel like I have conceded so much already and he feels like he has...so what now? IDK.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Tasorundo said:


> I find it amusing that someone can think everyone else is illogical, while at the same time having no ability to understand the logical consequences of direct actions.


Tasorundo,

Typical attribute of a high functioning Asperger's.

I've seen it firsthand in my classroom over the years when I have had students with this condition.

Tremendously frustrating to deal with.....but it is genuine confusion, not intentional rebelliousness or selfishness.

They really don't get it.

The best they can usually do is learn to mimic and practice the 'norms' of behavior that society expects.

Based on some of her recent posts, LOTL understands and knows how to do this...but she has decided she feels cramped and inauthentic doing them anymore, at least when she is not in public with her H.

So she has dropped the mask in private, and apparently she considers phone, text, FB, and email communications with others to be private matters that concerns only her.

Her H is very upset at this 'new' her....but she isn't lying that this has always been her, she is just not wearing the mask anymore.

And I think Rowan may be right also....she does have a manipulative streak that really isn't part of a normal Aspie.

Most Aspies couldn't figure out how to manipulate others if their lives depended on it....they are too clueless about how normals feel or think.....but she probably picked up and learned this behavior from mimicking her serial cheating, selfish father while a child.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Big Tree said:


> She may not see what you see. Mindblindness is a common trait in ASD.
> 
> Mind-blindness can be described as a cognitive disorder where an individual is unable to attribute mental states to the self and other. As a result of this disorder the individual is unaware of others' mental states. The individual is also not capable of attributing beliefs and desires to others.


I actually get this on a very personal level. The brain, however, is amazingly trainable and can be shaped and fashioned/conditioned just like other parts of the body.

Training can make behavior second nature and eventually first nature.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Damn girl I feel sorry for you,but only because you can not find out how GREAT YOUR HUSBAND IS and how great YOUR KIDS ARE.

I will be honest here with you,if you were my wife and you did those things we will be ending our marriage the first time I found about it.

PLEASE get some help for yourslef and your kids and especially your husband.
He does not deserve that.

He stayed with you with all your health problems,can you say that about your other man ??? No you can not,because THEY DONT CARE,only your husband care.

Go and work on this marriage,ask for forgivnes from your husband.

Grettings from EU


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lady. Your limited view of your world is not universal truth.

Sex is currency with you because that is your nature.

Sex is not currency with me or many others.

Your claim that sex is currency for men but not women is extremely myopic and incorrect as well.

You are attracted to interactions with a percentage of the male population with whom sex is currency, or with whom you perceive sex is currency.

Your condition does not explain away your preferences.
You also can't claim hyper intelligence is the reason behind your preferences. There are many high level geniuses that find your behavior abhorrent.

The truth is you desire behavior that the vast majority of people find disgusting.

Either work on your preferences and shape them to be in line with a married woman or divorce.

You can't have both and your condition is no excuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lady, why didn't you respond to my post?

You don't understand the emotional needs of others, but why can't you understand plain logic?

Action A causes reaction B and reaction will be repeated every time. How can you then say "oh I don't get why reaction B happened" and pretend it doesn't matter, even though you KNOW reaction B will happen every time.

Do you care what your husband feels or not?

If not, then stop asking why and stop pretending to be trying to understand it.

If yes, then stop doing things that hurt him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Neither solution appeals. I contend that being married should not preclude being able to be an individual with interests and friends and activities that do not include the spouse. I am certainly not at all interested in H's activities, beyond those we have in common. I think it fair to expect the same in return.


What you think is fair is irrelevant. He doesn't want a marriage like this and you know it.

You CAN have a marriage like what you are describing that has a lot more freedom.

But you can't have that marriage with your husband.

So you either want HIM or you don't. He gets to decide his own boundaries, not you. If you want a free range marriage, marry a different man who agrees.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Either work on your preferences and shape them to be in line with a married woman or divorce.
> 
> You can't have both and your condition is no excuse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman. I find the idea of doing so just because repugnant. WHY is it such a big bloody deal that I enjoy men the way I do? It harms no one. I derive great enjoyment and fulfilment from it. No one has shown me WHY it is 'wrong' or HOW it is immoral, they just keep insisting it is. 

WHY does this hurt my husband, when it should not affect him in any way at all. WHY does he get so emotional? Is there anyway to get him to NOT be so emotional? I think it would be better for him to change than me, although I suppose learning to control his emotions at this age is too much to ask. 

I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> To LOTL do you have a hard time not breaking laws? Laws codify morals. Basically you are arguing you should be able to act immorally simply because you want to.


I wouldn't consider myself a habitual law breaker but I will ignore those that don't make sense or are stupid. I'm arguing I should, we all should, be able to do as we please, so long as no one is harmed. And I have not seen how I'm harming anyone. No one has been able to explain that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I could ask you why you think he should NOT be hurt?

It requires that you accept that people are different than you. And you know what? They have a right to be different, and frankly you are not owed a justification for it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I wouldn't consider myself a habitual law breaker but I will ignore those that don't make sense or are stupid. I'm arguing I should, we all should, be able to do as we please, so long as no one is harmed. And I have not seen how I'm harming anyone. No one has been able to explain that.


Apply this standard to your husband and your interactions with other men.

Is he harmed?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman. I find the idea of doing so just because repugnant. WHY is it such a big bloody deal that I enjoy men the way I do? It harms no one. I derive great enjoyment and fulfilment from it. No one has shown me WHY it is 'wrong' or HOW it is immoral, they just keep insisting it is.
> 
> WHY does this hurt my husband, when it should not affect him in any way at all. WHY does he get so emotional? Is there anyway to get him to NOT be so emotional? I think it would be better for him to change than me, although I suppose learning to control his emotions at this age is too much to ask.
> 
> I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer.


Your simple question has received a simple answer. You simply don't like the very simple answer you have been given.

The simple answer is divorce.

Your desires are not your husband's in regards to relationships.

This has nothing at all to do with your condition and everything to do with your desires.

Find a different man. I guarantee he will not match your husband in many satisfactory areas but he won't mind dipping his wick in you and others at the same time or whatever sexual behaviors you choose to engage in. Even swingers have strict boundaries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman. I find the idea of doing so just because repugnant. WHY is it such a big bloody deal that I enjoy men the way I do? It harms no one. I derive great enjoyment and fulfilment from it. No one has shown me WHY it is 'wrong' or HOW it is immoral, they just keep insisting it is.
> 
> WHY does this hurt my husband, when it should not affect him in any way at all. WHY does he get so emotional? Is there anyway to get him to NOT be so emotional? I think it would be better for him to change than me, although I suppose learning to control his emotions at this age is too much to ask.
> 
> I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer.


You have to behave like a socially defined married woman because you have chosen to marry. You have to behave like a mother because you have chosen to have children,

There is no absolute rationale for why it is wrong to behave the way you do & if you are as intelligent as you claim, you know this and are being disingenuous here. Humans are social beings and society is a system. Elements in the system are defined by other elements in the system. There are no absolute definitions.

You appear to know that your behavior is anti-social, but then want an out by claiming that you would have to know 'why' before you will respect the boundaries that society deems necessary to maintain the social fabric.

There is no 'why' other than it is what the social system demands. There are, of course, biological reasons for everything we do, but there is no getting around the fact that your society declares your behavior aberrant within the social system in question.

I work with people who have myriad cognitive/learning challenges. Many of my students are on the spectrum. Many have ADD, dyslexia, etc. Sociopathy does not necessarily follow from an Aspergers diagnosis, in my experience. I have learned over the years that I can only help these students generate strategies for themselves that will help them navigate their social worlds. No amount of trying to 'get them to understand' the why is particularly helpful. We usually respond to the mismatch by defining superficial behaviors that might lead to greater success.

In your case, you appear to others to be smug in your assessment of standard behavior. This is an error, in my opinion. You should instead use what others are doing as input to what you can do to produce success for yourself. No 'whys' or condescending declarations about the general hypocrisy of the standard understanding. No, just observation of what is expected of you, an assessment of whether you can do it, and a decision on behavior based on that.

Given that you can't and won't behave in your marriage the way society expects you to, you should not be married. Why try if you already know that you can't succeed at it?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Oh I know all about men and their desires, that is what makes them so simple.


Everything you have posted says the exact opposite.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman. I find the idea of doing so just because repugnant. WHY is it such a big bloody deal that I enjoy men the way I do? It harms no one. I derive great enjoyment and fulfilment from it. No one has shown me WHY it is 'wrong' or HOW it is immoral, they just keep insisting it is.
> 
> WHY does this hurt my husband, when it should not affect him in any way at all. WHY does he get so emotional? Is there anyway to get him to NOT be so emotional? I think it would be better for him to change than me, although I suppose learning to control his emotions at this age is too much to ask.
> 
> I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer.


LOTL,

I or other 'normal' people will never know experientially what its like to perceive and interact with the world as you do....but we can learn to understand how your ASD makes you different from us.

You are just going to have to accept that this breakdown in understanding is a two way street....just as some normals cannot for the life of them get how you can be so unemotional, detached, and inept at what some people call 'emotional intelligence', and even when an expert describes how you are impacted by ASD, they will never truly 'get' it.

Well you are going to have to accept that there is literally no way we can explain in a way that will make any real sense to you WHY what you are doing is totally unacceptable, will not be tolerated by the majority of people, and will lead to your rejection and social pariah status if you continue.

You are just going to have to accept that this IS the way of socially acceptable behavior among most people....you may not 'get' it or understand, like many normals are about about your ASD behavior, but you are going to have to accept it......or accept the consequences that continuing your actions will bring.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The men you are interacting with want sex with you. You are stringing them along. In other words you are prick teasing them. You are having emotional affairs with them. That is cheating on your husband. Since you cant understand why sex is adultery, you will just have to accept that it is true. Look at the damage it did to your mother. I expect some of these men are married. You are also damaging their families. That is immoral. Imagine if your husband decided to do the same thing. Sooner or later he would leave you for a other woman and you would lose your family, have to go to work and lost your kids a big part of the time sharing custody. Would that not make you sad and unhappy?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Lady, why didn't you respond to my post?
> 
> You don't understand the emotional needs of others, but why can't you understand plain logic?
> 
> ...


I want to know WHY Reaction B occurs. I get that it does. No one has explained why or what the contributing factors are. I'm beginning to think it is some sort of social conditioning and NO ONE knows. 

Obviously I care very much about what my H feels since I am here, trying to understand it. 

But I also won't be forced into changing until I can understand why. This is not a small thing he is asking of me. If it was I would do it without question. I just feel I have already made so many big changes for him, and continue to filter myself to keep him happy. I'm tired of it.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman. I find the idea of doing so just because repugnant. WHY is it such a big bloody deal that I enjoy men the way I do? It harms no one. I derive great enjoyment and fulfilment from it. No one has shown me WHY it is 'wrong' or HOW it is immoral, they just keep insisting it is.
> 
> WHY does this hurt my husband, when it should not affect him in any way at all. WHY does he get so emotional? Is there anyway to get him to NOT be so emotional? I think it would be better for him to change than me, although I suppose learning to control his emotions at this age is too much to ask.
> 
> I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer.


Why? Because you are making your husband miserable. That's why. You're harming him. 

Why does it hurt your husband? Because you promised to forsake all others when you married and he believed you. Deviation from that promise is a betrayal. He feels betrayed, and he is upset that you are interested in other men when you spent years pushing him away and LOATHING him for wanting to have sex with you. So he resents you, too. in addition to being hurt. ANY husband would likely feel this way. It's not like there are millions of men out there who wouldn't care that their wives are playing with other men. Quite the opposite.

If you were not up for marriage and the monogamy that goes along with it, you should never have married. You also shouldn't have had kids since you hate them. 

Here's a question for you - why did you marry? Why didn't you stay single forever and play with all the men you like without hurting anyone?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> I could ask you why you think he should NOT be hurt?
> 
> It requires that you accept that people are different than you. And you know what? They have a right to be different, and frankly you are not owed a justification for it.


He shouldn't be hurt because not one single thing I've said or done has concerned him in any way. If he had never touched my phone or computer, he'd be none the wiser. Not a thing would have changed for him. So if it does not hurt him if he doesn't know about it....how can it HURT him if he does? It is still the same set of events, still does not include him. It's as if he is extrapolating events that happen to me, and inserting his emotions. That is insane...and preposterous..and such a waste of time and energy. He should not care what I do. Just as I do not care what he does. He is a grown man and I'd be humiliated to monitor him, or who he talked to, or what he said. Beyond that, it would bore me. It doesn't concern me and is none of my business. I thought I had every right to expect the same from him and then this happens and it's as though a bomb drops...

I'm fully aware that people are different. I'm more than aware that I am different than most. I do however deserve justification when the differences affect me so severely or when I'm being asked to alter myself so fundamentally.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Apply this standard to your husband and your interactions with other men.
> 
> Is he harmed?


He claims he is, but has yet been able to show how or why. I want to know. How does it hurt him if he is not involved?

It's comparable to me being hurt over not liking the colour of car he chooses. It's not my car, not my choice, nothing to do with me, why would I care?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I believe you to be abysmally less intelligent than you have self described or disingenuous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ain't buying it. Good luck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> He claims he is, but has yet been able to show how or why. I want to know. How does it hurt him if he is not involved?
> 
> It's comparable to me being hurt over not liking the colour of car he chooses. It's not my car, not my choice, nothing to do with me, why would I care?


He has the capacity to have emotional investments that you don't have and haven't developed.

How would you like it if he screamed at the top of his lungs and hurt your ears and woke you in the middle of the night but didn't consider your complaints about his behavior because he was deaf?

I do not believe you have great cognitive abilities to not have put this picture together.

A person with sight can be seriously harmed by a brilliant flash where a blind person might not even be aware anything happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I want to know WHY Reaction B occurs. I get that it does.


And we want to know WHY you don't understand reaction B.

Yet you will never be able to explain it to us and we will never understand it. Nor should we have to.

Again, you don't have to be married to your husband. You can find a man who shares your relationship values and be more free.

There's nothing more to it than that. Let him go so you can do your thing without hurting him.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

This thread is not nearly as helpful as I'd hoped and very little light has been shone on my situation. 

As of now the consensus is " he is hurting because he is hurting and you are wrong because you are wrong" and such circular logic makes my brain itch. 

I can't discuss this with him anymore as he becomes far too emotional. This community has not been as helpful as I'd hoped. 

Please, just tell me why it matters to him. I must know. Is it possessiveness? I'm the toy he doesn't want anyone else playing with? Is it insecurity? Does he think I'll leave? I'd ask if he was simply immature, but you all seem to agree with him, even though you can't say why and he is not an immature man. He is very smart and very accomplished. 

I find it strange that so many people in this forum dedicated to marriage are advocates of divorce. And not just in my case, but in others as well. It seems more like a forum for Talk About Marriage In Best Case Scenario


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> He shouldn't be hurt because not one single thing I've said or done has concerned him in any way. If he had never touched my phone or computer, he'd be none the wiser. Not a thing would have changed for him. So if it does not hurt him if he doesn't know about it....how can it HURT him if he does? It is still the same set of events, still does not include him. It's as if he is extrapolating events that happen to me, and inserting his emotions. That is insane...and preposterous..and such a waste of time and energy. He should not care what I do. Just as I do not care what he does. He is a grown man and I'd be humiliated to monitor him, or who he talked to, or what he said. Beyond that, it would bore me. It doesn't concern me and is none of my business. I thought I had every right to expect the same from him and then this happens and it's as though a bomb drops...


your paragraph I quoted above is just so wrong, I don't know how to respond to it. He cares, because he doesn't want a STD, he wants sex with his W, he wants her to only want sex with him (which you promised to do, most all wedding vows explicitly state this), he doesn't want to have enforce boundaries on things that are obvious to 90+% of the population.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman. I find the idea of doing so just because repugnant. WHY is it such a big bloody deal that I enjoy men the way I do? *It harms no one.* I derive great enjoyment and fulfilment from it. No one has shown me WHY it is 'wrong' or HOW it is immoral, they just keep insisting it is.
> 
> WHY does this hurt my husband, when it should not affect him in any way at all. WHY does he get so emotional? Is there anyway to get him to NOT be so emotional? I think it would be better for him to change than me, although I suppose learning to control his emotions at this age is too much to ask.
> 
> I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer.


Well, it certainly seems to do a great deal of emotional harm to your husband.

It's like you've just stabbed him w/ a kitchen knife, see the blood gushing from the wound, and then cry out, "Why are you in so much pain?!?"

Look, if interacting w/ other men in such a manner is such a core and substantial part of your identity that you resent being asked to NOT do it, then you don't need to be married. Or, at the very least, you don't need to be married to your _current_ husband.

And since you don't seem to get it, I'll (try to) spell it out...

What you're doing is widely considered wrong, immoral, unsuitable for marriage (or, for that matter, _any_ form of committed monogamy), etc because _you are spending considerable amounts of time and emotional energy (well... as much as you're capable of mustering, anyway) investing yourself in semi-sexual relationships w/ men who are NOT your husband._

Your husband sees this as a betrayal, and largely because that's exactly what it is, and his reaction to all of it is rooted in a fundamental fear of losing you as his mate, partner, and wife.

He loves you. He values you. He's committed to you. And, in the behavior that you continue to display, he sees NONE of that reciprocated. Hence his pain.

Having said all this, I get that you're still not likely to understand any of it, because you don't see it as being any different than eating your favorite meal, or engaging in some _other_ favorite pasttime... all of them bring you pleasure. Additionally, you don't see how love and sex can be at all related, so you therefore don't understand your husband's reaction, because you've likely assured him over and over and over that "it means nothing", you "don't care about any of them", etc.

So I'll ask the following again...

Can you imagine your husband doing anything that would evoke a similar reaction from you?

You've stated that you wouldn't be at all worried if your husband were to engage in a physically intimate relationship w/ another woman. What if he decided to pursue this and, as a result, he fell in love w/ her? What if he were to leave you for her?

I've asked the last two questions specifically because that is precisely the fate that you're courting w/ your behavior.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> As of now the consensus is " he is hurting because he is hurting and you are wrong because you are wrong" and such circular logic makes my brain itch.
> 
> Please, just tell me why it matters to him. I must know. Is it possessiveness? I'm the toy he doesn't want anyone else playing with? Is it insecurity? Does he think I'll leave? I'd ask if he was simply immature, but you all seem to agree with him, even though you can't say why and he is not an immature man. He is very smart and very accomplished.


It is not circular logic. He is hurting because most all humans expect monogamy. it is not insecurity or immaturity, it is that you are not providing what he signed up for: to forsake all others (this means you aren't to chase other men, have sex w/them, flirt w/them, use sex to manipulate them and to have and to hold (this means to have sex with your H).

This hurts him to no end.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> He claims he is, but has yet been able to show how or why. I want to know. How does it hurt him if he is not involved?
> 
> It's comparable to me being hurt over not liking the colour of car he chooses. It's not my car, not my choice, nothing to do with me, why would I care?


It hurts him because HE wants your attention, particularly your sexual attention. Every minute you spend teasing and flirting and chatting with other men is mental and sexual energy you are giving to someone else, not your H.

What if your H was out there helping a woman with her epilepsy, being there for her, spending all his time with her making sure she was ok, caring for her, driving her around, grocery shopping for her...all while you are having seizures at home and he isn't around and doesn't do anything for you and leaves the fridge empty because he's busy grocery shopping for the other woman and taking her to doctor's appointments? Does that help you understand? What he does with her doesn't involve you, but it sure impacts you.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Please, just tell me why it matters to him. I must know. Is it possessiveness? I'm the toy he doesn't want anyone else playing with? Is it insecurity? Does he think I'll leave?


Please just tell us why you lack normal emotions?

Please tell us why you do not have normal empathy?

Please tell us why you are cruel and don't care about the outcome to others of your cruelty?

Please explain to us what it is like to be sadistic and have no feelings about it.

No matter what you say, most here will still not understand your position.

So I guess that means you really don't have a position, other than "I'm a cruel, empathy-less, sadistic person who doesn't care about the outcome of my cruelty".

And that still will not make sense to us because we are not the same as you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

If you find this forum unhelpful it is because you are not intelligent enough to read plain English.

Are you incapable of understanding that since you lack the same emotional spectrum your husband has that he can be hurt in an area that you cannot?

You are, in effect, emotionally blind while your husband is not.

He can be harmed because he is in possession of faculties you lack.

Do you comprehend?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> This thread is not nearly as helpful as I'd hoped and very little light has been shone on my situation.
> 
> As of now the consensus is " he is hurting because he is hurting and you are wrong because you are wrong" and such circular logic makes my brain itch.
> 
> ...


Obviously, your brain chemistry is different from most other people's, including your husband's. That impacts your ability to process information and emotions in the typical way that most other people do. Your husband's reactions are the same as most other people's. Yours are not. Emotions aren't based on logic but feeling.

This isn't news to you? 

Some people are born without the ability to feel physical pain. They go around hurting themselves because they don't feel their hand burning on the hot stove, or when they've stepped on a nail. They can go around asking all day long WHY do you feel pain when I don't, but there is no other more significant answer than brain chemistry.


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Please, just tell me why it matters to him. I must know. Is it possessiveness? I'm the toy he doesn't want anyone else playing with? Is it insecurity? Does he think I'll leave? I'd ask if he was simply immature, but you all seem to agree with him, even though you can't say why and he is not an immature man. He is very smart and very accomplished.


You're close to getting it, I think. Yes, to some degree it's possessiveness. In a sense, after your husband got married to you, you became his. The idea of sharing you sexually with other men is repugnant to him.

Yes, part of it is also insecurity. You are not easily led by your emotions, but a lot of people are. We make stupid decisions and we hurt people based on chemical reactions and very strong feelings. He is concerned that if you develop a strong relationship with a man, especially one with a sexual component, that you will not be able to resist yourself. 

It's not a matter of being immature. No matter his maturity level, he's always going to have these feelings. Speaking from a biological standpoint, it makes sense that he would get jealous when you express sexual interest (real or pretend) with other men. You have pair-bonded with him and he sees other men as a threat to his dominance over you. Biologically, he doesn't want another man to inseminate you. He wants you to carry his genes and propagate his DNA, not someone else's.

I think you're developing an understanding of this, but you're not fully willing to do what it takes to get there.


Quigster


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_Help Me Understand What I've Done Wrong_

Damn where do I start.

1. You never do help for your childhood issues.
2. Got married young when you weren't married.
3. You used men.
4. Gave your husband a hall pass and see nothing wrong with it.
5. You don't have boundaries for yourself.
6. It didn't seem like you bond with your husband or kids. 
7. You don't seem to care about your husband feelings.
8. Your seem highly selfish-(no offence).
9. You don't seem to know why texting and sextng men is wrong.


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It harms no one. I derive great enjoyment and fulfilment from it. No one has shown me WHY it is 'wrong' or HOW it is immoral, they just keep insisting it is. WHY does this hurt my husband, when it should not affect him in any way at all. WHY does he get so emotional? Is there anyway to get him to NOT be so emotional? I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer.


The only way your husband would fail to have an emotional response would be if he no longer loved you, no longer cared about his marriage to you, and no longer wanted to be with you.

Based on what you've told me, you may not fully understand what it's like to be in love with someone. It kind of corrupts your thought process. It created an altered state of mind, not entirely unlike a drug (which it kind of is, since love releases feel-good chemicals into the brain). In this altered state, a person's perception of reality is not rational. They make impulsive or foolish choices based on this chemical feeling. Perhaps this is not part of your personal experience. Maybe you never allow your feelings to sway your judgment. Your husband most assuredly does. He can't help it.

With that in mind, your husband is not able to look at a situation where you're chatting with a man in a bar and be rational about it. He isn't able to tell himself, "Oh, she's just flirting with that guy because she wants something from him." His chemical response is instantaneous. His heart begins to beat faster. His face gets flushed. Adrenaline starts pumping. He is a human animal and he sees this other man as a competing mate. Your intentions may be entirely platonic, and you are already fully aware that you will not have sex with this gentleman or leave your husband for him, but his animalistic response gets in the way of all logic. He cannot perceive a situation like this with complete calmness and understanding. He fears the possibility that you will be seduced by another man. He is strongly motivated to prevent this, even if you already know it to be impossible.

Many people here have tried numerous times to explain this to you. Maybe they're just using the wrong language. Maybe the way you experience emotions so completely differently from us is preventing you from being able to relate. You may never fully come to understand this kind of emotional reaction. 

You cannot continue to enjoy flirting with men, using sexual behavior as currency, and expect your husband to stay married to you. The two are mutually exclusive. Decide which you enjoy more. If you would prefer to remain married, then you must sacrifice something you enjoy in order to stay with him. The choice is yours to make.


Quigster


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_He shouldn't be hurt because not one single thing I've said or done has concerned him in any way._

It does concerned him he's your husband. When you get married it's we and not me.

IMO you sound like a narcissistic. And I think you have a sever case of NPD.


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> He doesn't understand using sex as social currency and that is how I function. Well....that is how everyone functions...I just freely and openly admit it and enjoy it.


I think your premise could stand to be reevaluated. Not everybody uses sex to get what they want. My interactions with you, for example, are motivated by a desire to help you. I don't expect to ever meet you or have sex with you, and yet I'm still interacting with you.



> Anyway. I want him to understand that I can interact with both men and women in these ways and it won't end up with me in bed with anyone.


Nobody is saying you're forbidden to interact with other people. Like you, I feel more comfortable making friends with the opposite sex, so I understand. You should be able to make friends with men. Your tendency to use sex as currency to get what you want is very self-destructive. You say you enjoy it, but do you enjoy arguing with your husband about it afterwards? The conflict with your husband can be prevented if you refrain from stringing men along sexually.

Here's an analogy. Let's say you're walking in your neighborhood and you come across a dog. The dog is barking at you and is trying to bite you. "That doesn't make sense," you say to yourself. "I never did anything to this dog. He shouldn't be upset at me." So you reach out to pet the dog and he bites you. 

Are you going to try to pet the dog every time you see it? Or are you going to accept that, for whatever reason, the dog is going to hurt you for reasons you don't fully understand? Comprehending the dog's motivation is not necessary for you to KNOW he will bite you.

In this analogy, the dog is your husband. You don't understand why he's upset. It's incomprehensible to you. And yet you want to continue the same behavior that you already KNOW is going to upset him. It is not necessary for you to understand his emotional state. You want reasons and explanations for why he is upset and why he is jealous. I don't believe that any explanation will ever fully satisfy your sense of logic, because the answer isn't based in logic; it's based in an emotional response. 

Can you at least TRY to curb your sexual flirting and see if that has a positive effect on your marriage? Or do you enjoy it so much that you are willing to risk losing your husband over it?


Quigster


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

norajane said:


> Why? Because you are making your husband miserable. That's why. You're harming him.
> 
> Why does it hurt your husband? Because you promised to forsake all others when you married and he believed you. Deviation from that promise is a betrayal. He feels betrayed, and he is upset that you are interested in other men when you spent years pushing him away and LOATHING him for wanting to have sex with you. So he resents you, too. in addition to being hurt. ANY husband would likely feel this way. It's not like there are millions of men out there who wouldn't care that their wives are playing with other men. Quite the opposite.
> 
> ...


I promised to forsake all others and I've upheld that. I haven't slept with or otherwise inappropriately touched another human being. I have not betrayed that in wanting to use other men as I do. They are sort of like toys. I get gratification from them the same way he does from porn. Porn doesn't really interest me much, but he likes it. This is my version of it. Actually, I really like that analogy. Using men as I do is to me as porn is to him. I have no issue with him using porn so....

Unfortunately I did not know anything about marriage before I married. Just as I didn't know how unsuited I was for being a mother before I became one. I did not play with men before I got married, as I was not allowed to date and my H was my first serious BF. I knew almost nothing of my sexuality and certainly wasn't interested in exploring it for several years after marriage. You are correct, I LOATHED him for wanting sex and demanding it from me. He wanted what I did not want to give and I'm still not over that, despite his repeated apologies. 

It was only after having children that I had some sort of hormonal surge (my best guess) and became very sexual that I realized I had these desires to be chased by men. Prior to that I was very cold and distant towards all men. I had also been raised very conservatively, with men being the head of the family, the dominant ones, the typical Judeo-Christian family figurehead. All men were to be treated with respect and deference. I balked at that my whole life, and have had a very difficult time resolving being respectful with being subservient to my H. I try to be respectful of him, I do respect him, but I will not bow to him. I will not be a doormat to him and I will not have his heel on my neck. I will remain true to myself, I will maintain independence and we will just have to find a way to make that work. Sorry, that was a bit of a tangent.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The biological 'why' is basically:

- Humans are monogamous.
- Monogamy is supposed to optimize the ability to raise healthy children to adulthood.
- Raising healthy children to adulthood is essential to survival of the species.
- The establishment and maintenance of society is the human approach to supporting the family structure.
- Society has established rules in order to provide this support.
- Breaking these rules is viewed as essentially threatening survival of the species.
- When you break the rules of monogamy, your partner, who has developed chemically/biologically real attachments to you in order to further the family structure, experiences physical, mental, emotional pain.
- This is called heartache.
- This pain is real and can be excruciating.
- When you 'play' with other men, you cause your husband this pain.
- This pain is real whether you hide it from him or not, because you are breaking your vows.
- He wants to know - and has a right to know - whether you are breaking your vows.

This is not, in my opinion, an issue of 'what he doesn't know won't hurt him,' therefore he shouldn't be snooping, so it's his fault if he's hurt.

This is much more fundamental. This is an issue of your not being capable of understanding the roots of the social compact, such that you can live your life without causing great pain to someone you have vowed to love and support.

If you want to be married and are resigned to having a family, you have to accept that your behavior will have consequences that are socially condemnable. More important is that you are hurting your husband. Whether you can empathize or not, the fact of that hurt should be enough to stop you from cheating with other men.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> And since you don't seem to get it, I'll (try to) spell it out...
> 
> What you're doing is widely considered wrong, immoral, unsuitable for marriage (or, for that matter, _any_ form of committed monogamy), etc because _you are spending considerable amounts of time and emotional energy (well... as much as you're capable of mustering, anyway) investing yourself in semi-sexual relationships w/ men who are NOT your husband._
> 
> ...


THANK YOU. Finally something that makes sense. You can't imagine the relief. So his is a fear based reaction? He thinks that if I invest energy and time into other men, there will be nothing left for him. That is a logical conclusion. It's not true, I have plenty of energy for him, we have sex nearly every day and sometimes more. I get a charge off of my interactions, of feeling desired and wanted and powerful. My commitment to him never wavers, however I guess I can see why he would be afraid it would. I don't suppose there is any way to convince him otherwise?



> Having said all this, I get that you're still not likely to understand any of it, because you don't see it as being any different than eating your favorite meal, or engaging in some _other_ favorite pasttime... all of them bring you pleasure. Additionally, you don't see how love and sex can be at all related, so you therefore don't understand your husband's reaction, because you've likely assured him over and over and over that "it means nothing", you "don't care about any of them", etc.
> 
> So I'll ask the following again...
> 
> ...


No I can't imagine him doing anything that would get me that emotional. There just isn't anything that would upset me like that or make me feel that threatened. If he wants to leave, I can't stop him. It is his choice. I wouldn't feel I could do anything about it nor would it be right to keep him where he doesn't want to be. 

I guess the only thing that would get me stirred up is if he became violent towards the children or myself. Then he would have hell to pay. But I have already made that crystal clear to him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

People really need to be aware of personality disorders and ASD symptoms before marrying someone. Otherwise, this.

When people lack normal empathy, this is what you get.

I have a friend whose husband was both ASD and PD. He cheated on her repeatedly but since she never found out, he never cared about what might happen if she did.

When she did finally find out, he never understood why it was such a big deal to her, how did it hurt her? Why did it hurt her? All the same questions.

Lady would have us believe that there is a difference because she didn't cross a physical line, but since lying to others doesn't matter to a person who lacks empathy, I don't think we can believe she is being sincere anyway. So she may have been in full on affairs and just doesn't want to say it out loud here because some part of her just doesn't want to hear what strangers think or feel about it.

Thankfully, my friend divorced her H and got everything she wanted financially.

Sadly, her ex-h is father to her two children who will struggle for their whole lives because they have a PD/ASD father who doesn't care how they feel, either. He can't. He lacks normal empathy. And is completely self-serving, like Lady. Kids who grow up in this environment don't have an easy life and many end up having PD's as well.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> People really need to be aware of personality disorders and ASD symptoms before marrying someone. Otherwise, this.


Oh he knew. He knew all about me being different. There were no diagnoses back then and ASD wasn't the catch all basket for all eccentrics, but he knew. He knew all about my mum, my dad, my whole crazy family. He went in with his eyes wide open.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> The biological 'why' is basically:
> 
> - Humans are monogamous.
> - Monogamy is supposed to optimize the ability to raise healthy children to adulthood.
> ...



Thank you very much for this input. It is very helpful.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Oh he knew. He knew all about me being different. There were no diagnoses back then and ASD wasn't the catch all basket for all eccentrics, but he knew. He knew all about my mum, my dad, my whole crazy family. He went in with his eyes wide open.


No one who hasn't lived through the extent of the cruelty someone like you can bestow upon another "knows" what they are getting into.

There is no way he "knew" when he was a young adult and you were as well what your disorders would mean in relation to himself or your children.

I hope you at least have your children in some kind of therapy, as they are going to need it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Why don't you invite your husband here so we can support him? I'm sure he needs it.


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## Mrtruth (Aug 20, 2015)

You are cheating on your husband! There is more to cheating than just physical. So every time you play with some guy to get satisfaction you ARE CHEATING on your husband!!! 

You said if he hurts your children there will be hell to pay......but.......you are hurting them right now with the way you treat your husband with such distain. So don't threaten him when you yourself are hurting your kids.....real bad.

Did I read right that you forgave him for wanting to have sex with you or demanding it......wow that is might nice of you (that was sarcastic) when you get married sex is kinda a big thing. It keeps both partners happy and emotionally connected. So wow thanks for being so nice to him for you not holding up your part of the marriage.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Mrtruth said:


> You are cheating on your husband! There is more to cheating than just physical. So every time you play with some guy to get satisfaction you ARE CHEATING on your husband!!!
> 
> You said if he hurts your children there will be hell to pay......but.......you are hurting them right now with the way you treat your husband with such distain. So don't threaten him when you yourself are hurting your kids.....real bad.
> 
> Did I read right that you forgave him for wanting to have sex with you or demanding it......wow that is might nice of you (that was sarcastic) when you get married sex is kinda a big thing. It keeps both partners happy and emotionally connected. So wow thanks for being so nice to him for you not holding up your part of the marriage.


I disagree that there is more to cheating than just physical. And this is where the problem between us lies. I don't think it is realistic to expect one person to be able fulfill all the wants and desires of another one. Humans tend to be too self centered and self focused to be able to do that. And that is not a bad thing, IMO. 

Your assertion that my behaviour hurts my children is ridiculous. They know nothing if it, and wouldn't care if they did. Why would they? It doesn't affect them in the slightest. 

And yes I did have to forgive him for our early sex life. It was horrid. He wanted it all the time and I hated it. He used me and I resented that. I still do. He says he forgives me but I honestly feel he has nothing to complain about as something is better than nothing and nothing is what he would have gotten had I had my own way. Sex did NOT make me happy, quite the opposite in fact. Yet I still did it. For him. I'm afraid this is getting me quite upset and he is home now so I really must let this topic lie for now.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I am beginning to see that you are being purposely obtuse. I believe that we, the posters here, are now playing your "dance, puppet, dance" game. We have become your latest toy and now you are beginning to tire of us.

Not that this is the actual point of this thread because I feel you already know exactly what you are doing but nevertheless. Understand that your H is actually very much like you in some ways. You like the thrill, excitement and intrigue that you get from these games. He, likewise, likes the thought of a faithful, devoted and dedicated wife and mother. You will never be that. Partly because of your intellect, which bores easily and partly due to the lack of it, in that you do not possess the ability to see your self as anything less than the center of the universe.

I wish you happiness as you pursue this endeavor but sadly, I see little in the future of your family. You made a statement in your OP in which you described children as "disgustingly needy". So much for your biological directive.

You are correct however, in that children are very needy, as the last 10 pages of posts are a testament to. I can only hope that the information you provided herein is false and was just another game. If so, I hope we offered some entertainment of value. If not, then I fear that your family has some dark days ahead. I wish you good fortune.


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## Mrtruth (Aug 20, 2015)

you are so wrong if you think the way you treat you husband and the distress and pain you cause him does not hurt your kids. but like you said you only care about you and you dont care if your husband or kids get hurt as long as you dont think you are hurting them. 

but like nochoice just said im out. please get your kids into therapy before you totaly destroy any hope they have at a normal life.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I believe you when you say that your husband has blanketed sex with emotions. It is likely that he views you as a warm body to release his biological urges.

Other than a physical body, I don't see much to be desired, or attracted to for that matter.

The online affair that you had with another member of this forum has very little to do with your ability to manipulate men, that man was also just using you to validate his own self worth. Ironically you did not value him at all, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say that that man was utterly worthless.

I would suggest anybody interested in private conversation with this OP to talk to a hole in the wall.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_ They know nothing if _

Kids are smarter and more aware than you think.

You knew about your parents marriage so what makes you think your kids don't know about yours?


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## Mrtruth (Aug 20, 2015)

One last thing I like how you said there is only physical cheating no emotional cheating. If only 97% of the rest of the whole wide world knew this. Man you should have let the rest of the world know that....millions of relationships would not have failed.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

She is intentionally toying with this forum. It is no more than a game to her. If she is so intellectual, she would know that her condition, real or perceived, would produce this effect in her. She also would know why her husband would respond in the manner he does. You can't explain human emotion to someone who doesn't experience it to the point of feeling empathy. It is a feeling induced by chemicals. If someone is devoid of this chemical reaction within themselves, it would be like explaining quantum physics to an infant. No way to understand. No matter how much she wants to


She will never experience the feelings that most of us have and that's her loss. Sadly she won't understand how it's her loss. Her wiring is just routed differently.

Unfortunately she has duped her husband by pretending to be someone she wasn't and she tired of it.
Now he is battling loving her and hoping to get back the woman she never was.
Eventually he will have to come to terms with who she really is unless she goes back to faking and she is not interested in doing that.
She is more interested in why he feels the way he does, when she doesn't feel that way because she senses he may want to leave her soon.

She may not stop him from leaving, but there is something there that really doesn't want him to.

LOTL, as it has been explained numerous times and in numerous ways on this forum;

Just because you don't understand why he feels the way he does about you "playing" with other men doesn't stop him from feeling that way and you risk losing your marriage in the long run because you don't understand.

You cannot place logic on something that can be so illogical as emotion. People will be able to give you bits and pieces of perceiving what empathy and feelings of hurt and jealousy are. Noone will ever be able to give you the full spectrum explanation of those emotions because they were never meant to be explained, they were always meant to be felt


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

lovelyblue said:


> _
> 
> You knew about your parents marriage so what makes you think your kids don't know about yours?_


_

My mother told me everything. I was her confidante from the age of 10. My children have been protected from all of life's ugliness. They are truly innocent._


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

You are your father's daughter.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman.
> 
> I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer.


I did, but to be more explicit the answer is.. the WHY doesn't matter because your question is wrong. Refer to my earlier post and focus on something external and less boring.

Or to state it even more simply: you don't. Still, wrong question.

Try to step up your game here.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> THANK YOU. Finally something that makes sense. You can't imagine the relief. So his is a fear based reaction? He thinks that if I invest energy and time into other men, there will be nothing left for him. That is a logical conclusion. It's not true, I have plenty of energy for him, we have sex nearly every day and sometimes more. I get a charge off of my interactions, of feeling desired and wanted and powerful.


@ Gus - you fed the beast.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Lady my mom tried to protect me and my bother from our abusive drunk cheating father..However my brother and I knew exactly what our dad was.

My brother hates-(and told him so) our father. All I am saying is be careful...kid know more than you think they can sense things.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

SoulStorm said:


> She is intentionally toying with this forum. It is no more than a game to her.


 I'm not toying and this is not a game. This entire thread has been rather painful and frustrating. It is not something I would indulge in for fun. 


,


> If she is so intellectual, she would know that her condition, real or perceived, would produce this effect in her. She also would know why her husband would respond in the manner he does. .


Patently untrue.



> You can't explain human emotion to someone who doesn't experience it to the point of feeling empathy. It is a feeling induced by chemicals. If someone is devoid of this chemical reaction within themselves, it would be like explaining quantum physics to an infant. No way to understand. No matter how much she wants to
> 
> 
> She will never experience the feelings that most of us have and that's her loss. Sadly she won't understand how it's her loss. Her wiring is just routed differently.


Fair enough. Although I don't believe I'm the one at a disadvantage here in regards to emotions. The few I have are under total control, unlike the majority of people I observe who are tossed about, up and down, all over the place, with theirs. How exhausting it must be to have your own contentment be under the control of the actions of others. Isn't that horribly uncomfortable? And risky? 

Regardless, I am incapable of producing the chemicals required to engage in these feelings and I think I'm the better for it. My H has the burden of being a very emotional person and I realize that I have to be very patient with him and try to be more understanding of the fact that he experiences an internal universe that I have no knowledge of.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

"And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman. 
I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer."

AS AN ASPIE MYSELF the only answer I can come up with is this. If you want to interact with people in a way that does not end with your total rejection and isolation you will need to do a few things that most normal people do as a matter of course. They treat each other with kindness and care about each other and try to take care of each other. When one makes the commitment to one person in a marriage, then you commit to that one person only. Playing power games with the emotions of other men for your own power fulfilment, to demonstrate your intellectual superiority, or because making others suffer somehow fills needs that are voids in your life, and then denying the cruelty of what you have done because intellectually you don't see any other position but your own is disingenuous and ASPIE PATHETIC. IT IS CHEATING BY ANY DEFINITION!
How does hurting your husband, who loves you, toying with his emotions and showing him that you are the superior woman and the treat him with disdain, in any way secure your relationship. 
By the way, being married and toying with someone's emotions while the are trying to make a connection with you, is cheating. It is the dishonesty it creates in the way you deal with the significant other in your life that makes it cheating. 
What you will get one day is your husband saying enough is enough, putting your stuff in the garage, gathering the kids around him and telling you to GTFO so he can change the locks, and with the divorce's completion, never have to look at you again.

If you want a "normal" sort of life, you have to act like you are having a normal life. 
I have spent my whole life hiding my ASPIE qualities by mimicking normal behaviour. I have used my specially talents in the areas I excel at to advantage, but I don't lord it over the people around me. I coached girl's basketball for 15 years, and boys for 10. I hate basketball. To me it is the game they designed for people who can't understand football (soccer) and football is for those too dense to play rugby. But, I am good with kids, and I get a kick out of coaching well. I could care less if they win, lose, go to the championships or get blown out every game. To be a good coach I must support their victories, console them at their losses and teach them to play better so that they win. I have won many city finals, region finals, and got close to a Provincial, the banners hang in the gym. At the team dinner I tell them I would be blessed and honoured to have a daughter or son like them. They send me cards and gifts and hugs and tell me how I am the greatest coach and how they loved working with me. I feel nothing, that is sad, but I don't do it for me, I do it for them.

I must add, the number of ASPIES who marry is small, because most can`t sustain relationships. I went ASPIE on my wife for years and found out the hard way. LadyOfTheLake be careful.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Ive been quite nerved about this thread as ive never taken the time to think through the diverse thoughts of people whos perceptions are so different from the norm

Really scary to think 'but by the grace of god go i'

I do hope LOTL you find balance in your life


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Hmmm. I wonder how many other posters are familiar with the Yeats poem in your sig? Some will go google it now, but I doubt many know it on reading this. I like Yeats, though Stolen Child isn't my favourite. I always thought it somewhat a cowards route, to be so afraid to embrace life one would choose to run away with the fairies. My favourite Yeats is "When You Are Old"... so poignant.

Here's a more modern quote from a favourite author of mine to ponder:

_Pain... seems to me an insufficient reason not to embrace life. Being dead is quite painless. Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious moments can you win from life in addition to the pain?_


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I have not betrayed that in wanting to use other men as I do. They are sort of like toys. I get gratification from them the same way he does from porn.


That's actually a really interesting parallel. It makes a lot of sense to me. Some women might consider their husbands looking at porn to be "cheating," but the husbands may insist it's not, since they're not having sex with other women (even though there is a sexual component).

I've thought of another suggestion. You've spent a lot of time on this forum explaining your position and why you don't feel as though you've wronged your husband. I have a much better understanding of you now than when you started this thread. I think perhaps that if your husband reached this level of understanding that he might be okay.

You're going to need to sit him down and explain everything to him. He probably knows, or suspects, a lot of this already, but it needs to be spelled out so he can understand. I would suggest a script like this, but do feel free to tailor it to your needs:

"I want to talk about our problems. I know you get jealous when I spend time with other men. You're probably worried that I'm going to fall in love with one of them. I can promise you that I will never be swept away by my emotions. I just don't work that way. You can trust me implicitly. I have absolutely no intention of leaving you. I can swear to you that I will never sleep with any of the men I spend time with. I'm an adult; please trust me to have some self-control. I am completely devoted to you."

The small possibility exists that if you explain things to him the way you've done with us, he can come to terms with your behavior and accept it. Asking you to always act and behave like a neurotypical person is a extraordinary effort for you to make, and you shouldn't have to do this your entire life. 

He may want to meet you halfway and agree to this only under certain conditions. Perhaps you could agree to tell him about your male friends and keep him informed about where you go with them, what you talk about, etc. This may help to ease his troubled mind somewhat. I think that's a fair compromise for you to make. It still allows you to enjoy other people socially.

By the way, I've written a lot to you that you seem to be not responding to. Is it because you disagree with me? Agree with me? Find it irrelevant? Are thinking about it? A lot of people seem to have given up on you, but I'm still sincerely trying to help. 


Quigster


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Thinkitthrough said:


> "And yet no one has been able to explain WHY I have to behave like a socially prescribed married woman.
> I'm asking a very simple question, there should be an equally simple answer."
> 
> AS AN ASPIE MYSELF the only answer I can come up with is this. If you want to interact with people in a way that does not end with your total rejection and isolation you will need to do a few things that most normal people do as a matter of course. They treat each other with kindness and care about each other and try to take care of each other. When one makes the commitment to one person in a marriage, then you commit to that one person only. Playing power games with the emotions of other men for your own power fulfilment, to demonstrate your intellectual superiority, or because making others suffer somehow fills needs that are voids in your life, and then denying the cruelty of what you have done because intellectually you don't see any other position but your own is disingenuous and ASPIE PATHETIC. IT IS CHEATING BY ANY DEFINITION!
> ...


But I don't want to interact with people, or be accepted by mainstream society. I never said I did. I have a few friends who understand me, or at least are used to me and that is all I want. The rest of society holds no interest for me, certainly not enough to change myself so fundamentally to fit in. There is no pay off for that amount of work. 

As for people treating each other with kindness and care...are we on the same planet? Because the society I observe is a cruel one. Kindness is a weakness that will get you victimized. 

I've never denied that the men I toy with may find me cruel. I don't particularly care what they think. I have denied that I'm cruel to my H, since I contend that nothing I do in the virtual world has any bearing on his reality. 

I do not toy with H's affections, I take them very seriously. That is why I am here, having this unpleasant conversation with total strangers. I'm trying to understand him. But as it has been stated that may simply be impossible. It is like trying to explain blue to a blind person. Futile. 

FTR, I don't want a normal sort of life. Normal bores me. I want something different. Whether that can be achieved remains to be seen.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

11 pages of answers for a person who thinks the only way of cheating is PIV? Really?

My dearest TAM army. What ill fate has befallen you while I's away?

As for the title, "Tell me what I've done wrong": Here's what you've done wrong:

You have thought. Thought, from a relationship aspect, which by the way obviously is not your strong suite, and have decided not only for yourself but for your husband as well. You appear disinclined to play along while your husband is in disagreement with your funny ideas. Why don't you invite him along? Let's hear what the bloke has to say.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I don't want a normal sort of life. Normal bores me. I want something different. Whether that can be achieved remains to be seen.


But that is exactly what you have. A boring life. That's why you do what you do re: scientist guys, etc.

I'm rather like you, though I'm indifferent to you and don't care if you like me either. Except I channel myself into productive interesting things. But right now you are waste of energy. Relieve the boredom by doing something interesting. More than this thread, btw. Produce something useful or at least intellectually interesting. Or die boring. Whatever.

I'll perhaps come back if you post something more interesting. Or not.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

sapientia said:


> But that is exactly what you have. A boring life. That's why you do what you do re: scientist guys, etc.
> 
> I'm rather like you, though I'm indifferent to you and don't care if you like me either. Except I channel myself into productive interesting things. But right now you are waste of energy. Relieve the boredom by doing something interesting. More than this thread, btw. Produce something useful or at least intellectually interesting. Or die boring. Whatever.
> 
> I'll perhaps come back if you post something more interesting. Or not.


One of the best posts so far! Love it. 

I am bored ****less with my life. This is very true. What to do about it is complicated by various external factors that I won't go into here. 

I like that you don't like me and have the guts to say it with elegance. I always like people who are disdainful of me. 

I am a writer. I do produce some useful and popular content. Just not nearly enough to keep my mind fully occupied.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Lady,
The best I can answer your question, and offer antidote to your 'making sense,' is this: Marriage is the union of two people becoming one. You are no longer your own self, you belong to your husband, and he belongs to you. When you engage another man for your own desire to feel validated or praised, you are inviting another man into that union. You are taking what belongs to you and your husband and wh0ring it out to another for your own licentious gain. That is considered selfish and disrespectful, regardless of your abundance to provide your husband with physical attention, you offer him no emotional intimacy, yet fake it for another man. That is ASPIE PATHETIC.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Lady if I may ask have you had any form of counseling to deal with your childhood?


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> One of the best posts so far! Love it.
> 
> I am a writer. I do produce some useful and popular content. Just not nearly enough to keep my mind fully occupied.


Okay, TAM? I think this clinches it... happy to have been of service.

Facepalm to the rest that miss it.

Next!


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> One of the best posts so far! Love it.
> 
> I am bored ****less with my life. This is very true. What to do about it is complicated by various external factors that I won't go into here.
> 
> ...


So you are saying you are lazy.

Okay.


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## Mrtruth (Aug 20, 2015)

Ok last time I thought of a way to compare you and what you are doing to your marriage so maybe you can understand better. I know you said this thread was frustrating to you and it is to is also who are really trying to help and save your marrige ok here goes.......

Your marrige is the world and your husband is an average Christian who goes to church loves life and all his fellow man. You are a radical muslim terrorist. You kill everyone who does not agree with you and no matter how many people tell you what you are doing is wrong you are stuck in your ways. 

Think about it everyone says what you are doing is wrong by using men and having emotional affairs with other men. Just like people tell terrorists killing 13 year old kids because they ate food during a fast is wrong. You don't care the whole world is wrong and you are right.

You are killing your husbands love for you and the marriage slowly like a terrorist throws people in a cage and drowns them. In your eyes its OK because you beleive what you are doing is right and your husband should just stay in the cage and not complain when you have the whole worlds telling you it is not right.

What we are saying and the whole world except a small % of radicals say to be in a marriage and really want to be in one you can not do what you are doing. You can't disrespect your husband the way you do. If you want to continue to do what you are doing let him out of the cage (marriage) before you kill him.

Just like life there are rules you have to follow and in marrige there are rules and boundaries you have to follow. But just like a radical terrorist you think just because you think it you are right and no matter what anyone says you will do what you want and if your husband don't like it you will destroy him.

If you cannot see what you are doing to your husband and simply do not care (again you are always right just like a radical terrorist) have your husband come to this site and start a thread of his own so we can help him get away from you before your beliefs kill the man he is.


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Mrtruth said:


> Ok last time I thought of a way to compare you and what you are doing to your marriage so maybe you can understand better. I know you said this thread was frustrating to you and it is to is also who are really trying to help and save your marrige ok here goes.......
> 
> Your marrige is the world and your husband is an average Christian who goes to church loves life and all his fellow man. You are a radical muslim terrorist. You kill everyone who does not agree with you and no matter how many people tell you what you are doing is wrong you are stuck in your ways.
> 
> ...


She's a parasitic terrorist?


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> But I don't want to interact with people, or be accepted by mainstream society. I never said I did. I have a few friends who understand me, or at least are used to me and that is all I want. The rest of society holds no interest for me, certainly not enough to change myself so fundamentally to fit in. There is no pay off for that amount of work.


But you do, apparently, want to remain married to your husband. You gotta play by his rules if you want to keep him.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

NoChoice said:


> I believe that we, the posters here, are now playing your "dance, puppet, dance" game.


:yay: *BINGO!!*

That was her intent from the first post, glad someone else realizes it. Can we stop feeding her ego-kibbles now?


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

Red Sonja said:


> That was her intent from the first post, glad someone else realizes it. Can we stop feeding her ego-kibbles now?


I disagree. She's a real person with real problems. I don't feel like she's deceiving us or playing with us.

At the end of the day, I'd rather find out that I tried to help, and got played, than find out that I assumed I was being trolled and drove somebody away who really needed support.


Quigster


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

She doesn't want support, she wants absolution.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> She doesn't want support, she wants absolution.


No way. Distraction perhaps, but not absolution. She's unapologetic. I could almost wish she was writing a book about the web-mob response to her various online personas. That would make this a much more interesting thread. Ah well, its late and my imagination runs away yet again.... seeds set and perhaps already sprouted.

Whether real or a troll, what a long-suffering fellow her H, boyfriend, ex or whatever must be. Unless the sex is out of this world in which case, perhaps the tradeoff is worth it. Especially if she confines her experiments to forums like this one, then maybe he manages okay. 

Have a good evening all.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I want to have my own space with my own friends and be responsible for maintaining my own happiness. I am already too dependent on him for everything else and it disgusts me.


 What you want is to be single while having the advantages of being married. It is called cake eating. If I were your husband I would give you 1/2 of what you want, by divorcing you so that you could be single.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> I want him to have enough confidence in himself to realize that I love him and only him.


 I want your husband to have enough confidence in himself to realize that he does not need you, and that there are many woman out there that would be happy to give him the marriage that he wants.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> Why can't that be enough?


 Because there is so much more to marriage than that.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> But I don't want to interact with people, or be accepted by mainstream society. I never said I did. I have a few friends who understand me, or at least are used to me and that is all I want. The rest of society holds no interest for me, certainly not enough to change myself so fundamentally to fit in. There is no pay off for that amount of work.
> 
> As for people treating each other with kindness and care...are we on the same planet? Because the society I observe is a cruel one. Kindness is a weakness that will get you victimized.
> 
> ...


Okay I get where you are coming from. But here is the reality...what you are doing IS hurting him...badly. Now maybe you lack the ability to,understand and empathize. I get it. But that does not negate the reality of what you are doing to him. 

Whether or not you think what you are doing is wrong does not matter. The only thing that matters is you are causing a man, a very rare man, who has enough patience and love to accept the weirdness of your ASD and love and cherish you anyway....pain. Severe pain. 

You come to this forum with an attitude that you should be allowed do do whatever the hell you want because somehow you have the innate right to do so...just for your own pleasure. Well, that is flawed, sociopathic thinking. No, you have more problems than just ASD...I think you may be borderline sociopath. Seriously. You may not be a serial killer or torturing small animals....but the emotional disconnect you say you have goes far beyond ASD disconnect. 

I think you need to get to a psychiatrist. Pronto. 

Then you need to do the first decent thing you have done in a while, and gently tell your husband you are not able to be the wife he needs and deserves. Give him an amicable divorce. 

Frankly, if you were my wife you would have been tossed out on your ear by now.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Quigster said:


> That's actually a really interesting parallel. It makes a lot of sense to me. Some women might consider their husbands looking at porn to be "cheating," but the husbands may insist it's not, since they're not having sex with other women (even though there is a sexual component).
> 
> I've thought of another suggestion. You've spent a lot of time on this forum explaining your position and why you don't feel as though you've wronged your husband. I have a much better understanding of you now than when you started this thread. I think perhaps that if your husband reached this level of understanding that he might be okay.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I've missed replying Quigster. Some of your other posts had very salient points and I had a mental note to reply, but then some other post in the deluge caught my attention and off I went.

I do appreciate your consideration and consistent efforts to understand my very real situation. 

One of your other posts asked if I would consider at least slowing down the flirtations for H's sake. I have completely stopped. But I can't guarantee that I won't do it again. First of all, because that is just how I interact with men. It is all I know, and most of my social interactions are with men. Secondly, because it is what fills a void...for lack of a better term. 

As for your suggestion, I've tried it. Repeatedly. I've explained why I do what I do,what the pay off is, what I'm looking for, and what I don't want, which is a PA. I told him I lose the game if a PA happens. The power balance switches. 
He is concerned about me falling in love with someone else and moving on and I just can't make him understand how impossible that is. I'm not ever going to love someone again. I really don't think I'm capable. He found me at the critical time in my life when I was still able to generate those feelings and I imprinted on him. I don't see that ever happening again. 

I always keep him informed of who my friends are and where I'm going. I don't have an issue with that. I travel a lot at certain times of the year as part of my involvement with the sporting industry and I always remain in constant contact with him. 

I gave him the password to my phone and knew he would be monitoring things with the scientist for his own peace of mind. I kept things with the scientist from being too raunchy. It really was mostly shop talk. H just didn't like that we talked multiple times per day. He even got upset that I was telling the scientist about my daily activities, and he telling me his. His are much more interesting and I learned a good deal,BTW. The situation was tense but workable until the scientist had an epic brain fart and sent that stupid picture. 

Once again I thank you for your patient and well thought out posts Q. I knew full well from my previous experience on TAM what kind of reception I'd get. Your posts, and those like them, are why I'm here. 

If I wanted to cause drama and stir people up, I'd go bug the PETA people 


LadyOfTheLake said:


> One of the best posts so far! Love it.
> 
> I am bored ****less with my life. This is very true. What to do about it is complicated by various external factors that I won't go into here.
> 
> ...


----------



## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

lovelyblue said:


> Lady if I may ask have you had any form of counseling to deal with your childhood?


I vaguely remember being carried about to some counselor or another as a kid and teen. It ended up with my epilepsy diagnosis at 17 and a crap ton of meds. But the whole talk therapy thing....no. I think it is a scam.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Well this is my last post here,everyone is trying to help you,especially your husband and your kids,but we cant. You know why ??? Because of you,you are selfish person and you dont care about people who love you.

Your husband loved you and helped you when you were sick.It is not a flue,your medical condition is a serious one and he stayed with you.

Your "lovers" this is how I will call them,will never care about you,they will only about one part of your body (read it three parts).

I hope your husband can find another woman who will love him and love his kids.
It is hard to grow up when you know your mother does not love you (this my expierence)


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I disagree that there is more to cheating than just physical. And this is where the problem between us lies.


That is where my wife draws the "line" too. I draw the "line" where your husband does.

When my wife understood that we would divorce if she didn't uphold my sense of where the "line" belongs, she made a choice to concede the point and remain married.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Lady, what does it mean to love someone? You say you love your husband and he is the only one you will ever love. So what does that mean to you?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Tasorundo said:


> Lady, what does it mean to love someone? You say you love your husband and he is the only one you will ever love. So what does that mean to you?


I've often asked myself that and I have a hard time defining it. He is a good man, so honest and trustworthy. There is no filth in him, as there is in most people. No evil at all. Yet he is not weak. He can stand up to me when most will back down. He is a gentle man yet he doesn't have to be, he chooses to be. He is physically very very strong. He is respected by everyone who knows him. I trust him more than any one else. He is the one person I am most comfortable with and he comes as close to understanding me as anyone can. 
I understand him. He makes sense to me. I feel a calmness and contentment with him that I have never felt with anyone else. He feels like a part of my body that went missing at birth. I guess that is the best way to describe it.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I vaguely remember being carried about to some counselor or another as a kid and teen. It ended up with my epilepsy diagnosis at 17 and a crap ton of meds. But the whole talk therapy thing....no. I think it is a scam.


IMO your father's cheating and mistreat meant for your mom has messed you up. You may have unresolved issues you're not a bad person you just need help in understanding.

Their are good therapist and counselors that are good and they will help you.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

So you admire him and think he has a lot of good qualities.

If you are content with him, why do you seek validation elsewhere?

Your last statement that he feels like a part of your own body, made me think of this: After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it

Which is a statement from Ephesians 5 talking about marriage, wives and husbands. I don't bring it up for any religious reasons, but to show that how you feel is a normal human feeling. It is something that has been described for thousands of years.

Now the question is, if you feel that he is a part of you, why do you have a difficult time connection your actions to his pain.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> :yay: *BINGO!!*
> 
> That was her intent from the first post, glad someone else realizes it. Can we stop feeding her ego-kibbles now?


Having lived with an Aspie for 26 years all of the reactions from the OP are, sadly, par for the course. 

I can imagine my wife saying the same or similar stuff and being utterly unable to understand the terrible hurt she might cause.

This thread has triggered me for obvious reasons.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I vaguely remember being carried about to some counselor or another as a kid and teen. It ended up with my epilepsy diagnosis at 17 and a crap ton of meds. But the whole talk therapy thing....no. I think it is a scam.


Talk therapy in the hands of an expert can be very helpful. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

sapientia said:


> No way.


 One of the meanings of absolution is a release from obligations. She wants to be released from any social obligations to her husband. So, we will disagree.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Having lived with an Aspie for 26 years all of the reactions from the OP are, sadly, par for the course.
> 
> I can imagine my wife saying the same or similar stuff and being utterly unable to understand the terrible hurt she might cause.
> 
> ...


MattMatt had no idea


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I've often asked myself that and I have a hard time defining it. He is a good man, so honest and trustworthy. There is no filth in him, as there is in most people. No evil at all. Yet he is not weak. He can stand up to me when most will back down. He is a gentle man yet he doesn't have to be, he chooses to be. He is physically very very strong. He is respected by everyone who knows him. I trust him more than any one else. He is the one person I am most comfortable with and he comes as close to understanding me as anyone can.
> I understand him. He makes sense to me. I feel a calmness and contentment with him that I have never felt with anyone else. He feels like a part of my body that went missing at birth. I guess that is the best way to describe it.


Then....

Why the hell would you want to throw him away? Your answers to our questions are so all over the map... This to me says you are not grounded in any kind of reality. 

Seriously. You need psychological and psychiatric help. Not a counselor... 

You need to be evaluated by a clinical psychologist to determine what is going on in your head, then s/he can make a recommendation to a psychiatrist for treatment options.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Having lived with an Aspie for 26 years all of the reactions from the OP are, sadly, par for the course.
> 
> I can imagine my wife saying the same or similar stuff and being utterly unable to understand the terrible hurt she might cause.
> 
> ...


You should explain how horrible your wifes infidelity affected and is still affecting you. Do not fail to tell her how you eventually looked for solace inthe arms of another woman.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Talk therapy in the hands of an expert can be very helpful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BtW, Does your wife have regrets?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Do not fail to tell her how you eventually looked for solace inthe arms of another woman.


Well, I no longer believe it is this cut and dry.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Talk therapy in the hands of an expert can be very helpful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes exactly.

Lady needs and unbiased person to listen to her and she needs that person to help her understand why she has poor boundaries.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> BtW, Does your wife have regrets?


She was sorry she hurt me. And that is something, after all.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> You should explain how horrible your wifes infidelity affected and is still affecting you. Do not fail to tell her how you eventually looked for solace inthe arms of another woman.


I told her within hours of that happening. 

And eventually my wife used her skills as a psychologist to help me sort myself out.

I think my story should be filed under: "Did that sh*t *really* happen to me? Damn, yes it did!":rofl:


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Tasorundo said:


> So you admire him and think he has a lot of good qualities[/QUOTE ]
> 
> Yes.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I told her within hours of that happening.
> 
> And eventually my wife used her skills as a psychologist to help me sort myself out.
> 
> I think my story should be filed under: "Did that sh*t *really* happen to me? Damn, yes it did!":rofl:


I wasn't clear in my sugestion. I meant for you to explain it to LOTL.:wink2:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What you are doing by definition is having emotional affairs. Search emotional affairs here and on Google. See what damage it does to the loyal spouse and their families. Divorce is not uncommon at all. People in emotional affairs claim they are just friends but that is just them rationalizing their actions. They like to claim they are just friends. However, you see where the are texting, emailing,setting and skypeing their " friends hundreds of times per month. Many more times that what they interact with their spouses. Many, maybe most, eventually turn physical.

Show us examples of your texts,emails, etc. that your husband finds objectionable and we will show you why its objectionable to him. We are,after all, trying to help you and your husband and your kids


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> I wasn't clear in my sugestion. I meant for you to explain it to LOTL.:wink2:


I see.


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> What you are doing by definition is having emotional affairs.


That's the name we use for it, but technically it's not an "emotional" affair since Ms. Lake isn't developing any emotional feelings for these men. She may not be able to. That's why I suggested the term "non-sexual affair."


Quigster


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Regardless of what Mrs. Lake may feel personally, she is in the wrong. I've seen a few posts in this thread that imply that the OP is nuanced and that feeling emotion is an inferior trait to possess. What I see is a person who is intentionally ignorant of what makes her husband tick and how to engage in and maintain healthy relationships. 

All we are seeing here is plain old self centered "me first" thinking. She seems smart, but is breathtakingly ignorant of basic human interactions. There is no excuse for that. Really, she cannot comprehend how much she's neglecting her children? Bullish!t. She doesn't care to lean how do develop these relationships. She says one thing by her words, but by her actions she tells a different story entirely.


----------



## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> What I see is a person who is intentionally ignorant of what makes her husband tick and how to engage in and maintain healthy relationships.


Ignorant, yes, but I don't believe it's intentional. Asking her to understand what her husband is feeling is like asking me to understand how bats use echolocation or how birds use magnetism to find their way across the world when they migrate. It's just not something she's equipped with.

It's like that Star Trek episode where Geordi is trying to explain to Data what it's like to get angry. "You feel... hostile. You feel... aggressive." He can't explain it without referring to other feelings, which does Data no good, because he experiences no emotions at all.

</nerd>



> She seems smart, but is breathtakingly ignorant of basic human interactions. There is no excuse for that.


There's no excuse for you and me to behave like that, because we understand how and why people react emotionally. It's natural to us. Ms. Lake doesn't have that innate understanding. 

I don't excuse her insistence that she wants to continue having fun despite knowing that it hurts her husband, but I do understand her frustration in not understanding why she's expected to behave in a certain way.


Quigster


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Quigster said:


> That's the name we use for it, but technically it's not an "emotional" affair since *Ms. Lake isn't developing any emotional feelings for these men*. She may not be able to. That's why I suggested the term "non-sexual affair."
> 
> 
> Quigster


Sure she is, all you have to do is read her words.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Quigster said:


> That's the name we use for it, but technically it's not an "emotional" affair since Ms. Lake isn't developing any emotional feelings for these men. She may not be able to. That's why I suggested the term "non-sexual affair."
> 
> 
> Quigster


I get the impression there is something sexual going on with her interactions with these men. She herself said she believes only intercourse is cheating if I remember correctly.


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I used to cut, and still fight that temptation. Others smoke, drink, do drugs, have eating disorders, are obese... Etc etc. Humans are actually really good at hating their own flesh.


You are a sociopath as well as ASD?
She feigns ignorance, she has been to these boards enough to know what behaviours are hurtful, ASD is just another tool for her to manipulate with.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Quigster said:


> Ignorant, yes, but I don't believe it's intentional.


You must have a different understanding of intentional than me. You have mixed two different points.

Some of us, at one time or another, were told to do or stop doing something we may not have understood. If we chose to ignore that request, even when we didn't grasp the reasoning behind the order, it was a willful and intentional act. Maybe once might not be intentional, but not repeatedly.

Yes, she really may not grasp societal norms or why this bothers her husband, but she agreed to stop. Since she accepted his terms, more than once, it is intentional.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Regardless of what Mrs. Lake may feel personally, she is in the wrong. I've seen a few posts in this thread that imply that the OP is nuanced and that feeling emotion is an inferior trait to possess. What I see is a person who is intentionally ignorant of what makes her husband tick and how to engage in and maintain healthy relationships.
> 
> All we are seeing here is plain old self centered "me first" thinking. She seems smart, but is breathtakingly ignorant of basic human interactions. There is no excuse for that. Really, she cannot comprehend how much she's neglecting her children? Bullish!t. She doesn't care to lean how do develop these relationships. She says one thing by her words, but by her actions she tells a different story entirely.


But that is what Aspies are like. Really. They are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

gouge_away said:


> You are a sociopath as well as ASD?
> She feigns ignorance, she has been to these boards enough to know what behaviours are hurtful, ASD is just another tool for her to manipulate with.


It is not ignorance.

It is almost like those people with the disorder that means they cannot see or acknowledge a limb or a part of their face.

Logic tells them that the limb or the part of the face is really there.

But they know it really is not there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

Quigster said:


> It's like that Star Trek episode where Geordi is trying to explain to Data what it's like to get angry. "You feel... hostile. You feel... aggressive." He can't explain it without referring to other feelings, which does Data no good, because he experiences no emotions at all.
> 
> </nerd>


Haha. My wife most closely identifies with Data. Great call.


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Tasorundo said:


> Your last statement that he feels like a part of your own body, made me think of this: *After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it*
> 
> Which is a statement from Ephesians 5 talking about marriage, wives and husbands. I don't bring it up for any religious reasons, but to show that how you feel is a normal human feeling. It is something that has been described for thousands of years.
> 
> Now the question is, if you feel that he is a part of you, why do you have a difficult time connection your actions to his pain.





LadyOfTheLake said:


> Well I'd have to disagree with that scripture. Plenty of people abuse their own bodies, for a plethora of reasons. I used to cut, and still fight that temptation. Others smoke, drink, do drugs, have eating disorders, are obese... Etc etc. Humans are actually really good at hating their own flesh.





Mark 9:17-19 said:


> And someone from the crowd answered him, “Teacher, I brought my son to you, for he has a spirit that makes him mute. And whenever it seizes him, it throws him down, and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid. So I asked your disciples to cast it out, and they were not able.” And he answered them, “O faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him to me.”


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sure she is, all you have to do is read her words.


Emotional affair or not, she has grown highly dependent on these men.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

norajane said:


> Emotional affair or not, she has grown highly dependent on these men.


Yes and "dependent" can be tied to emotions as well.


.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> But that is what Aspies are like. Really. They are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm raising a child who is on the sprectrum, and he is quite capable of learning right from wrong and interacting with people. While my son is not like Mrs. Lake because he has a learning disability that compounds the issue with Autism, thru repitition he can learn and move on. 

Right or wrong, my wife and I refuse to allow our son to think that he can use his diagnosis as a crutch to get thru life or as a way to excuse bad behavior. That will not happen in our house. Mrs. Lake has the advantage of not having a learning disability - I presume based on her writing style. Therefore, she can process information and learn from it just fine. Her fundamental problem is that she is treating human emotion and interaction as a philosophical problem and trying to puzzle thru that to determine whether it's valid for humans to emphasize the emotional components of human interaction. 

Unfortunately for her, humans are emotional creatures and they feel emotional bonds to other humans. This concept is nonnegotiable. There is no philosophical waxing that will change this fact. She needs to ditch her philosophical musings about human emotions and learn to deal with them on a practical level. Humans have them, there is nothing you can do about it and stop *****ing about not understanding them and LEARN.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

As per Plan 9. I'm a diagnosed Aspie raised with clear notions of what is right, wrong and how people should to be treated. It takes a lot of effort to keep aware of what the people around you are feeling and respond accordingly. Just because you are ASC, ASD or what ever doesn't mean you get to act like a pri**k and then blame your superior understanding of things. Just because I can do awful things to people and not really care doesn't mean I have the right.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I want to have my own space with my own friends and be responsible for maintaining my own happiness. I am already too dependent on him for everything else and it disgusts me.


lady that there sound like you want a divorce.

you want freedom?
you want open relationship?, a one-sided open relationship?

you love your family? but want to go out meet other men?

your husband is perfectly fine in his concern.

and you are unbelievably naive.

listen:
you had explicit text with a other man? 
the next thing you did was date that other man? 

all the while your husband found out.
how do you think he was supposed to act?
uhh its ok honey.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By *LadyofThe Lake*
> This community has not been as helpful as I'd hoped.
> But I don't want to interact with people, or be accepted by mainstream society


Yet you are still here posting after over 200 posts interacting with people that are mostly mainstream. You contradict yourself!





> Regardless, I am incapable of producing the chemicals required to engage in these feelings and I think I'm the better for it. My H has the burden of being a very emotional person and I realize that I have to be very patient with him and try to be more understanding of the fact that he experiences an internal universe that I have no knowledge of.


You state that you are incapable of feelings and* “ I am the better for it”* You seem like you are trying to convince yourself that you are superior to your husband and have to be "very patient" and "more understanding" of him because he is *“very emotional”*



You have been asked several times to get your husband to come to this forum but you have avoided answering. What are you afraid of? Ask your husband to get on this forum;* he just may get some information/perspectives and some more independence that will help him make better choices in his life.*


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

It is kind of interesting to see somebody using their own developmental disorder as a crutch to objectify others.

_anybody else feel like they are in a Socratic debate?_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> You have been asked several times to get your husband to come to this forum but you have avoided answering. What are you afraid of? Ask your husband to get on this forum;* he just may get some information/perspectives and some more independence that will help him make better choices in his life.*]


I am not a new poster to this site. Look at my post count. I came here in 2013 when H and I were having problems. When he found out about my posts here, he read them and was furious. TAM lead to a huge fight. He doesn't want me posting about our issues on line, or anything to do with him. He thinks it embarrassing. I don't particularly want him to find out about this, although I think he suspects I'm up to something since I'm typing on my phone so much. 
Perhaps he will eventually see this thread, but I very much doubt he would ever post.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I am not a new poster to this site. Look at my post count. I came here in 2013 when H and I were having problems. When he found out about my posts here, he read them and was furious. TAM lead to a huge fight. He doesn't want me posting about our issues on line, or anything to do with him. He thinks it embarrassing. I don't particularly want him to find out about this, although *I think he suspects I'm up to something since I'm typing on my phone so much. *
> Perhaps he will eventually see this thread, but I very much doubt he would ever post.


if it was me id be thinking your texting/messaging the om.

lol seriously. you have got to be honest with him.

he saw you typing alot. his mind must be everywhere by now.

your actions look very suspicious.

talk to your husband pls.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> originally Posted by *LadyOfTheLake*
> I am not a new poster to this site. Look at my post count. I came here in 2013 when H and I were having problems. When he found out about my posts here, he read them and was furious. TAM lead to a huge fight. He doesn't want me posting about our issues on line, or anything to do with him. He thinks it embarrassing. I don't particularly want him to find out about this, although *I think he suspects I'm up to something since I'm typing on my phone so much. *
> Perhaps he will eventually see this thread, but I very much doubt he would ever post.
> 
> ...




EastSouth, Your message is a good one but I doubt that it will change anything about LOTL

LadyoftheLake cares more about herself and getting attention from other men than she does about her husband. She also feels like she is superior to him; well at least she likes to project that thought; I think it is her mask.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> EastSouth, Your message is a good one but I doubt that it will change anything about LOTL
> 
> LadyoftheLake cares more about herself and getting attention from other men than she does about her husband. She also feels like she is superior to him; well at least she likes to project that thought; I think it is her mask.


LOTL is so much like my wife that they could be sisters.

I know something of what her husband is going through. Because I am there, too, to some extent.

Although I think LOTL's problems are worse than my wife's.

What hurts worse isn't the cheating (that's in the past, now) it is the mercurial mood changes, the sudden rages and the fact that my wife will say one thing and then, in the next breath, will completely change her opinion, which leaves you floundering wondering WTF is going on.

And the hurtful, thoughtless but truthful, remarks. And the bewildered look when she can't understand why I am hurt. 

For those of you who doubt LOTL, I can assure you this is the real deal as experienced by me.


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> LOTL is so much like my wife that they could be sisters.
> 
> I know something of what her husband is going through. Because I am there, too, to some extent.
> 
> ...


Same here.

LotL strikes me as bluntly truthful. She seems loyal to her husband in her own way and at the point where she draws the "line".

She is probably used to controlling and manipulating her environment and those within it. This can be a coping strategy and a result of her emotional disconnect.

She reminds me of my wife as well. Had the same conversations with the same justifications.

BT


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

I remember Lady of the Lake. 

It aint gonna sink in people.

Part Sheldon Cooper part robot.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Middle of Everything said:


> I remember Lady of the Lake.
> 
> It aint gonna sink in people.
> 
> Part Sheldon Cooper part robot.


My wife is a cross between Sheldon and Amy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

We are all different, but the rages still suck. Coming down from one right now. Gotta learn when to shut up!!!


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> My wife is a cross between Sheldon and Amy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That doesnt sound good.:wink2:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Middle of Everything said:


> That doesnt sound good.:wink2:


Luckily for me she has Sheldon's intellect and looks very pretty. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lady Of the Lake maybe you just need to admit to yourself that you are not monogamous and that marriage is not for you. Let your husband go, give him an amicable divorce, then go bed all the men you want and let him go find a monogamous woman who can be the wife he needs.

There is nothing wrong with being promiscuous, in and of itself, as long as you understand that it is not congruous with marriage or any kind of exclusive relationship. I think you should embrace your promiscuity. Let your husband go and let loose your inner bimbo! Shout it from the mountain tops! 

"I am a slvt and I'm proud of it! Nothing will stop me from fulfilling my destiny!!!" 


I just don't understand why people just don't have the courage to just be who they are.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Lady Of the Lake maybe you just need to admit to yourself that you are not monogamous and that marriage is not for you. Let your husband go, give him an amicable divorce, then go bed all the men you want and let him go find a monogamous woman who can be the wife he needs.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with being promiscuous, in and of itself, as long as you understand that it is not congruous with marriage or any kind of exclusive relationship. I think you should embrace your promiscuity. Let your husband go and let loose your inner bimbo! Shout it from the mountain tops!
> 
> ...


He will not do it. 

It is a bit like the scene when Amy tells Sheldon thst his quirks which other people find rage inducing or aborant she finds as cute as a button.

It is not easy being married to an Aspie god knows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> He will not do it.
> 
> It is a bit like the scene when Amy tells Sheldon thst his quirks which other people find rage inducing or aborant she finds as cute as a button.
> 
> ...


He does seem to find my eccentricity appealing, when it's not driving him mad. 


I do not rage. It is unusual for me to get angry enough to lose my temper and when I do, it is ugly and I have the mouth of a sailor, but I am not ranting and screaming or carrying on. People who don't know me attribute my temper to me being a redhead. However, I know I am capable of great rage and violence. It has happened once before. I think the medications I'm on keep me on a pretty even keel.

I'm not a ****. I've only ever slept with H. I don't want to sleep with other men. I actually have an aversion to other people touching me. That makes me angry. I don't know how else to explain what I do? Men are easily manipulated by sex. This is a simple fact. It is how they operate. Men have been approaching me since I was 14...I learned very quickly how easy it was to get them to do what I want with minimal output on my part. I continue to do this...it is what I know. I enjoy it. I don't WANT to sleep with the men...if I did, I would. Why toy with them? If I wanted sex I wouldn't play games, I'd go have sex.
I don't want sex and H knows this. He isn't all that concerned about me shagging the scientist, although he thinks the scientist would be able to talk me into it. Which is laughable. No one can talk me into anything and H knows that better than anyone. H is concerned that I will fall for one of these guys and leave. Which only speaks to his lack of self confidence, which has been a life long problem for him. H really ought to know by now that I can't just grow feelings for people. And he doesn't understand that as much as I like and respect the scientist professionally, I will always disdain people who can't see me for what I am. I pick easy targets, ones I don't have to work at. Ones with obvious weaknesses. Ones I will eventually get bored with. H has nothing to worry about. H is one of the extremely few people who has earned my respect. I'm not looking to trade him in. Ever. There just doesn't seem to be any way to get him to understand that. And I don't know why. Am I not exceedingly clear and precise in what I want? Is there anything I'm leaving out or open to misconception?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

You are not showing your H respect by the lack of boundaries you have around other men.

You did make vows to him.

You know this upsets him, if you love him, show your love and respect him and his boundaries.

If you do not love him enough, then let him go, but divorce him first before continuing with you poor boundaries.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

So you get off on control....


It's all becoming clearer now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> He does seem to find my eccentricity appealing, when it's not driving him mad.
> 
> 
> I do not rage. It is unusual for me to get angry enough to lose my temper and when I do, it is ugly and I have the mouth of a sailor, but I am not ranting and screaming or carrying on. People who don't know me attribute my temper to me being a redhead. However, I know I am capable of great rage and violence. It has happened once before. I think the medications I'm on keep me on a pretty even keel.
> ...


What's interesting is how you do not pick up on your own clues, which contradict your continued comments about what you wouldn't do or who you won't do it with. Regardless of your lack of empathy or understanding you have shown him you are untrustworthy. Having no confidence in you, does not mean he lacks self confidence. You assume he doesn't understand, it is just as easy to believe he just doesn't like your actions.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I'm not a ****. I've only ever slept with H. I don't want to sleep with other men. I actually have an aversion to other people touching me. That makes me angry. I don't know how else to explain what I do? Men are easily manipulated by sex. This is a simple fact. It is how they operate. Men have been approaching me since I was 14...I learned very quickly how easy it was to get them to do what I want with minimal output on my part. I continue to do this...it is what I know. I enjoy it. I don't WANT to sleep with the men...if I did, I would. Why toy with them? If I wanted sex I wouldn't play games, I'd go have sex.
> I don't want sex and H knows this. He isn't all that concerned about me shagging the scientist, although he thinks the scientist would be able to talk me into it. Which is laughable. No one can talk me into anything and H knows that better than anyone. H is concerned that I will fall for one of these guys and leave. Which only speaks to his lack of self confidence, which has been a life long problem for him. H really ought to know by now that I can't just grow feelings for people. And he doesn't understand that as much as I like and respect the scientist professionally, I will always disdain people who can't see me for what I am. I pick easy targets, ones I don't have to work at. Ones with obvious weaknesses. Ones I will eventually get bored with. H has nothing to worry about. H is one of the extremely few people who has earned my respect. I'm not looking to trade him in. Ever. There just doesn't seem to be any way to get him to understand that. And I don't know why. Am I not exceedingly clear and precise in what I want? Is there anything I'm leaving out or open to misconception?


You may not be a physical ****, but you are definitely playing games. If you are engaging these men for attention and amusement, but are doing so in such a way that they think they have a shot at sex with you, you're playing games with them. Make no mistake.

EVERY decently attractive woman has had men hitting on her and willing to jump through hoops since she was 14. And every woman is guilty, at least a few times, of using her sexual appeal to manipulate men into doing, saying, or buying something for her. Some have made it a career. Strippers, hookers, web cam girls...all of them are using manipulation of men via their sexual appeal. Those of us who aren't sex workers are just more subtle about it. 

And we've all enjoyed it immensely. However, once we marry, we agree to cease and desist. We agree, in the vows, that the only man we'll use our feminine wiles to manipulate for our own amusement or gain is our spouse.

When Westerners marry, we generally include "forsaking all others" in the vows. The devil is in the details. It seems like you, LOTL, took that literally and to mean only sexual exclusivity. Yet it's generally understood culturally that the vow also includes emotional and intellectual exclusivity. 

Yes, we know that no one person can meet all of the needs of another person. The idea is that, once married, a spouse doesn't share emotional and intellectual intimacy outside their marriage to anywhere near the degree which they share it inside the marriage. It's part of establishing and maintaining pair bonds.

From your point of view, you're just using your sexuality as a way to get online male attention and amuse yourself by manipulating these men until either you get bored or he does.

From your husbands point of view, you are showing other men sexual interest, are sharing emotional and intellectual intimacy with these men, are possibly prowling for a replacement mate, and could very well become attached to one of these men and abandon him.

And he's right. Because that is what most people exhibiting your behavior would be doing. Even though you aren't like most people, his instinctive and emotional responses are programmed to react to the behavior of most people. He can't help that. It's how he's wired.

Not only is your behavior perceived as that of a woman looking for a new mate, it's also perceived as rejection by your husband. If you're looking for a new mate, you must be out of love with him and/or not attracted to him. And you must be unsatisfied by him, too, which means he is flawed. Those thoughts lead to sadness, shame, feelings of inadequacy, etc.

You can explain that's not the case all you want. You can logic at him day and night. You could take a polygraph. You could make graphs or maps or spreadsheets. It doesn't matter. It's not logic. It's instinct and emotion. It doesn't understand logic.

As for not toying sexually with your male friends... Umm, yes, you are! It's all about perception. To you, you're just enjoying attention and being amused. To them, the things you are saying are perceived as possibly/hopefully leading toward sex. Eventually, either you get bored or the man realizes you aren't going to have sex with him, so he moves on.

It seems so pointless. You hurt your husband and make him feel threatened. You lead a guy on with no intention of sealing the deal, so you're wasting his time. And you end up confused because you don't understand the reactions and feelings involved.

Not to mention, you sound very intelligent and like a decent human being. You could turn your Aspie traits into actual friendships with people who appreciate your unique input. You could spend more time challenging yourself in intellectual pursuits and in increasing social pursuits where you form bonds with friends. You could find ways to combine social and intellectual challenge and growth. 

And take the kids along. At their ages their brains are sponges. Spend time developing and challenging them socially and intellectually, too.

These faux friendships based on sexual possibility currency are beneath you and don't seem to be doing you any good whatsoever.

I'm pretty sure my husband, were he willing to be tested, would be somewhere on the Autism spectrum. He was a late life baby and he is very socially awkward. Highly intelligent. What people would call "emotionally immature" or a very late bloomer.

There are some things he just doesn't get that are instinctively understood by most of society. I explain, but sometimes it takes me years to find the right combination of words so that he gets it as best as he can while being incapable of truly understanding/feeling it.

I've come to accept that my DH loves me dearly, but doesn't show it in ways I have been programmed to understand. He doesn't naturally think to physically express affection very often. If I try behaviors that would normally elicit the desired response, it goes right over his head. If I plainly tell him I am feeling neglected and need physical touch, he will immediately remedy the situation. But, always, I have to plainly explain my feeling/need and why.

And he's always been that way. When we met, it was a powerful and mutual thing. But he didn't make a move because he didn't realize I was interested. In reality, I was doing everything but jump on the table at the bar wearing a sign to let him know I was interested. It wasn't until a friend of his flat out TOLD him in no uncertain terms that he had talked to me and I was VERY interested did my DH get a clue and make a move. He's never picked up very well on social cues and things like flirting. He has learned to recognize some things because I have explained it to him, though.

I wouldn't change him for the world. I love that he is so logical. I love that he sees the world in a different way than most people. Most people bore me and don't have much to offer. 

I don't have to censer my thoughts with him. For example, someone I knew vaguely years ago died. The other people who also vaguely knew him years ago or kept in marginal touch with him acted like the sky was falling. I didn't really care. So, some guy I used to kinda know died. Ok, people die every day. Sad he was so young. Poor family, grieving sucks. Movin on now! What are we going to do about dinner?

Or when some former friend/lover saw me at the store and made a big production out of it. "Hey, M! Be that way! Don't say Hi or anything!" So, I mumble "Hi! Sorry, didn't see you.", fake smiled and kept walking.

I don't like this guy anymore. He knows it. I served his divorce papers to him personally like 11 years ago and haven't talked to him since. I'm friends with his ex wife and his kids. If I wanted to see him and catch up, I clearly could. I don't. So, wtf? He could have just not said anything. I wouldn't have if I'd noticed him first.

He laughs with me at tasteless jokes because they're funny and he doesn't get why they're tasteless. I laugh because I get it and just don't care. It's a joke. Get over it, ya know?

Most people think that's horrible. My DH totally gets it. 

He's also great at breaking things down to their simplest form in a humorous way. He always offers a point of view that I'd never considered.

People who aren't typical have a lot to offer as friends and spouses. You don't need to use sexuality. You deserve to form relationships with people who appreciate you for you.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Nice work, Lady.

http://www.artinsights.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/20130307155338.jpg


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> There just doesn't seem to be any way to get him to understand that. And I don't know why. Am I not exceedingly clear and precise in what I want? Is there anything I'm leaving out or open to misconception?


You're communicating clearly, but he doesn't trust you to do what you say you're going to. 

For example, did you tell him that you wouldn't share your marriage problems with people online, and then came here to seek advice from us? Your motives are well-intentioned (seeking to help your marriage) but you're violating his trust in you.

In his mind, maybe today you'll promise that you'll never sleep with anyone else, but tomorrow you might decide that promise is inconvenient. Because, after all, you do have a history of ignoring social conventions that you dislike.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Quigster said:


> You're communicating clearly, but he doesn't trust you to do what you say you're going to.
> 
> For example, did you tell him that you wouldn't share your marriage problems with people online, and then came here to seek advice from us? Your motives are well-intentioned (seeking to help your marriage) but you're violating his trust in you.
> 
> In his mind, maybe today you'll promise that you'll never sleep with anyone else, but tomorrow you might decide that promise is inconvenient. Because, after all, you do have a history of ignoring social conventions that you dislike.


You make a good point there. I hadn't thought of that. I do change my mind/ stance frequently when presented with new information. Or when my situation changes. But only on superficial things. Things that really matter, that really affect me, I don't change.

So while I may have made a promise 2 years ago not to talk about our stuff online, I have long since forgotten about it. It wasn't an issue that I placed any importance in. Having a person intimately touch me, and get all in my space and having to smell them and be exposed to fluids and germs and odours and hair....just no. So much no. I can't begin to say how much that won't happen. My aversion to touch manifested when I was 6 months old. It will never change. 

Furthermore, I'm not looking for absolution, or permission, here. Ultimately, I will decide how to proceed. What I want from TAM is an anonymous peek inside a "normal" human brain and get an unbiased point if view. I suppose it isn't possible for a totally unbiased POV in an infidelity forum though. I didn't think of that till just now.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> But only on superficial things. Things that really matter, that really affect me, I don't change.
> 
> So while I may have made a promise 2 years ago not to talk about our stuff online, I have long since forgotten about it.
> 
> What I want from TAM is an anonymous peek inside a "normal" human brain and get an unbiased point if view..


Your bias and contradictions ring through again. Oh and thanks. Once again, Quigster tries to give you an out and you stomp all over it.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Everything your husband is upset about is based in logic.

You swore to him, presumably in a church, that you would be faithful to him. He believed those words, made under the most serious of circumstances. Yet, since that time, your actions have differed from the promise you made. You have changed from being someone who dislikes sex to someone who enjoys it. You have engaged other men sexually online. So now, he can't believe anything you say, because your actions are presenting him with different information. This means he can't believe you when you say you have an aversion to touch, that you would never cheat, that it's fun to manipulate men based on their desires for sex, etc. To him, these are just lies designed to stop him from bothering you about your actions. Worse yet, it makes him wonder if you are only manipulating him based on his desire for you, rather than actually caring about him and wanting to be with him.

You express that your fidelity is tied to a very narrow definition involving only intercourse while any other form of interpersonal interaction is fine. Your husband is operating from a completely different definition, a much broader one, involving neither of you having any interaction, sexual, physical or emotional, not even online exchanges, with anybody else. And you seem quite reluctant to change your own definition, but why should your husband change his? His is far more similar to the rest of the world's definition of fidelity than yours is.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By LadyoftheLake*
> What I want from TAM is an anonymous peek inside a "normal" human brain and get an unbiased point of view



Here is a peek into a normal brain
Most normal brains *do not* have such distain for the opposite sex that they want them to be puppets and dance for them as thier masters
*By LadyoftheLake*
My interactions with men vary from "Dance, puppet, dance" to “Let’s have a beer and check out the waitress".


Most normal brains do *refrain* from doing acts that make the other spouse feel replaced and rejected because they have a healthy emotional connection to their spouse. Their spouse having an intimate relationship with another person that should only be with them would be a serious *violation of their love*.
*By LadyoftheLake*
In fact, a few years ago I was under the impression he was having an intimate relationship with a friend of his. I was a little bit annoyed, but I didn't say anything. I didn't care much for the girl, but figured he had a right to his own friends and I was not inclined to interrupt what clearly didn't concern me.



Most normal brains would overlook and put up with their needy children, and NOT view them as "Disgustingly needy" because of the emotional connection to them such and empathy and cherishing them. Children just bring a glow to many normal people! 
*By LadyoftheLake*
I can't stand being needed and children are disgustingly needy.
I am not emotional with my children and I find them quite irritating most days. I did not bond with him at all until he was 3 months old and in fact asked my H if we could put him up for adoption


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> No, it seems I don't. The whole paradigm seems exceedingly bizarre and set up for failure. Yet our society is built on the premise of the nuclear family being a sustainable and workable module. It just leaves me confused.


I read your whole post and I'm no psychiatrist, but I would have assumed you were a sociopath. (I don't know much about Autism). 

For example, everything you say about people is what you get from them. Everything you say about your husband sounds like you don't like him or respect him at all. And then at the end you say you love him. That stuns me if it is true because there is nothing loving in the way you treat him.

ASD, sociopath, psychopath, borderline personality disorder, bi-polar... whatever is going on, I can tell you that your natural feelings and reactions to your husband (and others) are not normal. As in not typical. You sound 100% selfish and self focused, whereas most people have selfishness, but it's mixed in with compassion, generosity, caring, etc. And most people instinctively understand why your husband feels/reacts the way he does. Where as you just seem perplexed and annoyed. 

But your husbands feelings and reactions sound very normal/typical.

MY ADVICE:
Assuming a psychiatrist and medication can't help change the way you FEEL, If you want to keep your husband, I would change your ACTIONS toward him.

1. When he says something upsets him, believe him, and respect that he feels the way he feels, even if you can't relate. So if these internet pervs are not important to you, and you not engaging them is important to your husband (as it would be to 99% of the population, by the way), STOP DOING IT.

2. Understand that a relationship must be reciprocal to work. You don't just get to TAKE what you want from your husband. If you want him to stay married to you, you need to give him what he needs also (within reason). 

3. You are smart enough to figure this out on your own. Just because you don't feel the same things your husband does, you know that you took marriage vows and you know what those vows say. There is a reason they say what they say. They are not random words. I assume you vowed to "forsake all others" and other things that don't include sexting with creeps on the internet and lying to your husband and treating him like his feelings do not matter.

You whole post is about what you feel. You need to understand that your husband has separate feelings that are not identical to yours. What is in it for him? Why should he stay married to you?

I recommend you read the book "His needs her needs" then ASK you husband to read it and tell you what his needs are. Then work to fill those needs as best you can even if you do not understand then or need the same things.

BTW - You are not "just" a stay at home mom. You've been a business owner, you're a writer, you're raised/are raising two children. You're involved in things. Etc. Maybe you will find that one of the things you need is more admiration from your husband and if he gives that to you, you may experience less of a compulsion to disregard his feelings and flirt with other men.

Good luck.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

The only issue here is zero empathy, and you know what those kinds are usually diagnosed with!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ricky15100 said:


> The only issue here is zero empathy, and you know what those kinds are usually diagnosed with!


LOTL has already been diagnosed with a condition that can cause zero empathy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> LOTL has already been diagnosed with a condition that can cause zero empathy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do Aspies have to fight the urge to cut?
The manipulation pathology...
Self mutilation...
Flagrant promiscuity...
Are those typical Aspie?

This isn't a case of, "30yr old man doesn't understand why its not socially acceptable to befriend teen age girls and boys..."

She knows exactly what she is doing, she enjoys leading them on, she gets off on exploiting their weaknesses.

She's a sociopath.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

gouge_away said:


> Do Aspies have to fight the urge to cut?
> The manipulation pathology...
> Self mutilation...
> Flagrant promiscuity...
> ...


She is suffering from years as an abused child. As is my wife, sadly. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> She is suffering from years as an abused child.


And now her husband is suffering as result of her abuse as well.



MattMatt said:


> As is my wife, sadly.


As are you.

Break the cycle, fellas!


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She is suffering from years as an abused child. As is my wife, sadly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wasn't abused. I was traumatized. And I was born a bit broken. There is actual MRI evidence of brain malformation. But that is the cause of my epilepsy, the rest is just me. I was able to see the MRI images of the area in question. Completely fascinating. Such a tiny shadow causing so many problems.

ETA: All parents traumatize their children. We are all affected by how we were raised. If not, we'd be living in a perfect world. There is no such thing as a perfect family and every family damages and hurts each other. That is the price of being in close proximity of other people.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Man....I'm such a sucker for redheads.....



So LOTL, did you do your man-surfing thing last night? What is the current state of your marriage? Is your husband just sitting there letting you do this?


Let me ask you....would you mind if he did this with other women online himself? Maybe you two could arrange an "online open marriage", where you can each lock yourselves in separate rooms and have online romps with others. Then you get all worked up and take it out on each other for real in the bedroom. That would be interesting.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Man....I'm such a sucker for redheads.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't been in contact with men online, in the way that I prefer, in nearly two weeks, since the scientist sent the picture and H made his ultimatum. The payoff isn't worth the price, unfortunately.
I have told H he is free to pursue women online if he chooses, and I think he did try it on Whisper, but when I was not jealous or angry he stopped. Or is hiding it well. I don't know. I know he had some girl send him topless photos and he showed me. I think he felt guilty, even though I was fine with it. 

It is really funny when I think of it now. He would justify the topless pics, and the porn he watches, as being OK because he is not emotionally involved with the girls. I use the same reasoning with guys online and I'm an autistic sociopath? Lmao.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You might be. Or you might have disassociative disorder, which is similar to sociopathy. 


You are an interesting woman. You should hire yourself out to psychology grad students as a case study.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

OP, in having read this thread and your responses I can only conclude that you cannot love. To you love is manipulation, love is acquiring, love is "how does this benefit me?" Or maybe I'm wrong.

LOTL, what is love?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> And now her husband is suffering as result of her abuse as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And do what, exactly?

I would rather be with my wife as damaged and as challenging as she is than be without her.

I do point out when she oversteps the line. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> And do what, exactly?
> 
> I would rather be with my wife as damaged and as challenging as she is than be without her.
> 
> ...


Do you think that her husband, "lacking self confidence," may easily walk away from a passionless marriage, if he were to engage other women, as his wife has engaged other men's emotional intimacy.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

This is fascinating.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> This is fascinating.


Like a car wreck...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

bfree said:


> Like a car wreck...


No really...


Aspies are born with the emotional disconnect that most Vulcans spend their life trying to achieve. 

....um....if Vulcans were real.....:wink2:


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> No really...
> 
> 
> Aspies are born with the emotional disconnect that most Vulcans spend their life trying to achieve.
> ...


But Spock empathized with his "emotional" friends even if he didn't always understand it. From what I have read the OP is demanding her husband be "more Aspy" so that she doesn't have to accept his normal emotional reactions.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It is really funny when I think of it now. He would justify the topless pics, and the porn he watches, as being OK because he is not emotionally involved with the girls. I use the same reasoning with guys online and I'm an autistic sociopath? Lmao.


LOL at your repeated logical errors. You told him to do these things. You also said he didn't like doing it and stopped when you didn't care. Huge difference despite the white knighting going on. 


I'd tell you to ask him, but you are self serving and would bend the story to fit your needs.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Here are some links that might help
Therapy Today - The Online Magazine for Counsellors and Psychotherapists
Therapy for Aspergers and Autism, Therapist for Autism
Adult Asperger's Treatment


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Here are some links that might help
> Therapy Today - The Online Magazine for Counsellors and Psychotherapists
> Therapy for Aspergers and Autism, Therapist for Autism
> Adult Asperger's Treatment


Matt has your wife been officially diagnosed? Does she admit to having ASD?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm glad my son only has mild Aspergergers. Cracks me up though how this woman gets sympathy, but people with my disorder are told what horrible people we are. I, and others like me, didn't choose to be disordered anymore than the OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> I'm glad my son only has mild Aspergergers. Cracks me up though how this woman gets sympathy, but people with my disorder are told what horrible people we are. I, and others like me, didn't choose to be disordered anymore than the OP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think she's horrible. Never thought or said you were horrible. I just wish she'd make a fvcking choice and go one way or the other. 

She has learned to say "please" and "thank you" and hopefully she doesn't blow her nose into her hand or fart in an elevator full of people. She learned not to did those things. 

If she learned those things, then she can teach herself not to be a cruel webmistress, playing with men like they are mice, and to not to screw with her husband's feelings.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Matt has your wife been officially diagnosed? Does she admit to having ASD?


Yes, eventually she has been diagnosed.

And she has admitted to being ASD. Which has helped her understand that there is a reason for how she is.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yes, eventually she has been diagnosed.
> 
> And she has admitted to being ASD. Which has helped her understand that there is a reason for how she is.


Take white beans and black beans and keep them handy, mixed in a bowl. When she looses her cool and flips out, have her sit down and separate the black beans from the white. It will calm her brain down. 

It works. No joke. 

Aspies lack the ability to move from one dominant lobe to another. They use both lobes equally at the same time...which is why they are usually so fvcking smart and brilliant. But it also causes them the inability to balance emotion with logic, which is why they have such a hard time with empathy, because empathy requires a total shift to the lobe that controls emotion. Aspies lack that ability. 

Fvcking fascinating sh!t. It is no wonder that Isaac Newton, the most famous aspie in history, was so brilliant and, at the same time, such a social misfit. He made so many enemies because he was such a d!ck to deal with. :laugh:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Who would be qualified to give a diagnosis of aspergers?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> I'm glad my son only has mild Aspergergers. Cracks me up though how this woman gets sympathy, but people with my disorder are told what horrible people we are. I, and others like me, didn't choose to be disordered anymore than the OP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pidge, you are not a horrible person. You are a WIP (work in progress)...just like the rest of us.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Who would be qualified to give a diagnosis of aspergers?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Educational psychologists. There are a lot of them out there. There are specialized tests now, developed to determine ASD behavior. 

Most licensed school psychologists can perform the test and come up with an ASD diagnosis in children. Teachers are now being taught to identify and flag ASD traits in kids so they can get them into a proper IEP program.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

bfree said:


> Pidge, you are not a horrible person. You are a WIP (work in progress)...just like the rest of us.


But Pidge needs to make a choice. Hopefully she already has. 

Just like LOTL needs to make a choice..and quit fvcking around with her husband's feelings. 

LOTL's husband is only going to put up with her sh!t for so long before he goes and has a full blown sexual affair or he divorces her. Something's got to give.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> I'm glad my son only has mild Aspergergers. Cracks me up though how this woman gets sympathy, but people with my disorder are told what horrible people we are. I, and others like me, didn't choose to be disordered anymore than the OP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are people with your condition that are horrible people.

Having a condition is no excuse to behave like OP.

The condition OP has that is causing her the most trouble isn't ASD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Let's remember a few have pushed her diagnosis into "full" even though she is on the spectrum. Anyone who has dealt with this extensively and is impartial, sorry MattMatt you are not, can see she uses this as a crutch. I believe she is on the spectrum, but she has shown anger, sadness, and many other emotions she claims she doesn't care about or understand.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Who would be qualified to give a diagnosis of aspergers?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A Specialist who did his thesis in that condition.

That was how it happened with my wife.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

And there are horrible people with no disorders.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Let's remember a few have pushed her diagnosis into "full" even though she is on the spectrum. Anyone who has dealt with this extensively and is impartial, sorry MattMatt you are not, can see she uses this as a crutch. I believe she is on the spectrum, but she has shown anger, sadness, and many other emotions she claims she doesn't care about or understand.


My wife does *exactly* the same. 

She shows anger (dear lord, does she *ever* show anger! ) and emotions.

One of my wife's problems is that she admits she can't understand how other people think or why they react how they do.

She can't quite grasp the concept of emotions in other people, somehow.

She hates being touched, yet gets upset if I don't touch her.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My wife does *exactly* the same.
> 
> She shows anger (dear lord, does she *ever* show anger! ) and emotions.
> 
> ...


I see something different and I have taught many different "on the spectrum" people than you. Your post above actually separates your wife from the original poster and makes it not anywhere near "exactly." Yes, your 26 years with a diagnosed person is very helpful. Still, it is one person and that is why I say biased. I have dealt with at least 15-20 and only 3 were not diagnosed, but they showed similar traits. I am not a doctor and will not diagnose her at all. All I can say is what I was trained to recognize and what I specifically teach makes me agree with Conanhub:


> The condition OP has that is causing her the most trouble isn't ASD.


All we will do is bicker so, last word on this is to you.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

@LadyOfTheLake, I have one question for you.
You have already provided an answer as somewhat of a red herring, but a yes or no would suffice.

Do you fear that your husband may abandon you?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I see something different and I have taught many different "on the spectrum" people than you. Your post above actually separates your wife from the original poster and makes it not anywhere near "exactly." Yes, your 26 years with a diagnosed person is very helpful. Still, it is one person and that is why I say biased. I have dealt with at least 15-20 and only 3 were not diagnosed, but they showed similar traits. I am not a doctor and will not diagnose her at all. All I can say is what I was trained to recognize and what I specifically teach makes me agree with Conanhub:
> 
> 
> All we will do is bicker so, last word on this is to you.


My own wife had a hellishly horrible childhood, she was abused by family both physically and mentally for being different and was bullied at school, so I think that, in truth, some of my wife's problems are a result of her very bad childhood. Something similar to LOTL, I think.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> And there are horrible people with no disorders.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutely no argument there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

bfree said:


> OP, in having read this thread and your responses I can only conclude that you cannot love. To you love is manipulation, love is acquiring, love is "how does this benefit me?" Or maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> LOTL, what is love?


I don't have a ready answer to that question. I know thinking about the definition makes me uncomfortable and I can't come up with a good one. I know all the text book and romance novel parameters of love but I think they are not applicable to me. The best I can describe it is when you see the good in someone and it outweighs the negative. When you and that person are better together than apart. Like inert substances that combined, create a valuable resource. 
My H and I are a good team. I make him stronger, hold him up when he is weak and allow him let down the facade he wears for everyone else. He is my filter for the world, he takes the edge off and gives me a safe place to be me. He accepts me as I am, he has looked in my soul and while he doesn't like what he sees, he hasn't run away. We enjoy being together, we have shared interests, and many of the same values and mores. 

I don't know if that qualifies as love to anyone else, but it is as good as I'm ever going to be able give and he is apparently satisfied. I've recently told him that I love him to the best of my ability, the most I know how. He smiled and said he knew that already.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Let's remember a few have pushed her diagnosis into "full" even though she is on the spectrum. Anyone who has dealt with this extensively and is impartial, sorry MattMatt you are not, can see she uses this as a crutch. I believe she is on the spectrum, but she has shown anger, sadness, and many other emotions she claims she doesn't care about or understand.


I have never blamed any condition for the way I am. I was outright asked if I'd been evaluated for ASD and I simply said yes. I don't think much of the diagnosis and I don't base any of my life choices or actions on it. I've been the way I am long before some Dr gave me a label and I didn't need a crutch then and I dont need one now. 
I'm not rampaging through life looking for trouble and blaming it on some label. I simply live as my authentic self and anyone who doesn't like it can pound sand. They only problem is when my lifestyle negatively affects someone like H, when we have such a vast disconnect on an issue and neither can understand the other. Then we are at loggerheads and no one wants to give.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

gouge_away said:


> @LadyOfTheLake, I have one question for you.
> You have already provided an answer as somewhat of a red herring, but a yes or no would suffice.
> 
> Do you fear that your husband may abandon you?


I've always expected him to leave, for one reason or another. I still do. It has been my experience that all men leave. I am actually astonished on one hand that he is still here, but on the other I'm not as that is the type of person he is. 

I still think that eventually we will go our separate ways. He says we won't. But I will never trust anyone to say that. I just can't. And he knows this.

So yea or no: yes.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I've always expected him to leave, for one reason or another. I still do. It has been my experience that all men leave. I am actually astonished on one hand that he is still here, but on the other I'm not as that is the type of person he is.
> 
> I still think that eventually we will go our separate ways. He says we won't. But I will never trust anyone to say that. I just can't. And he knows this.
> 
> So yea or no: yes.


That's what my wife says. Often.

Ain't happening! :smthumbup:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> And there are horrible people with no disorders.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By bfree*
> LOTL, what is love?
> 
> *By Ladyofthelake*
> ...


Three things that you said:

You thinking of the question of what is love makes you uncomfortable.

You have a problem when your lifestyle negatively affects your husband.

You are afraid that your husband will abandon you.

These three maybe be connected. 

One of the definitions of love is when you respect the other person and deny selfish acts that would hurt the one you love. Erich Fromm, the famous social scientist, said in his bestselling book, “The Art of loving” that “Love is the active concern for that which is loved”

When a wife goes seeking other men to get attention from them, which she should get from her husband, this will give the husband a sense of rejection and failure and other emotions that will negatively affect the bonding and love in a marriage. That is NOT the active concern for that which is loved but is selfish and disrespectful. You do that to your husband and that is one of your lifestyles that have negatively affected your husband.* If you really wanted to couldn’t you change that?*


You are afraid that your husband will abandon you and you think that you and he will go your separate ways. If significant improvements are not made I would bet money you are right. *Are you willing to improve that?*

LadyoftheLake, I do not know if you really are completely void of some of the aspects of love or have a deficiency in your capacity for empathy and love, have built a defense against love, or if you are embellishing your attitude and beliefs so that you can get more male attention. *Do your really feel that if your husband had an intimate affair with another woman that you would feel that it is “fine” with you and it would not “...affect you either way”?*


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Mr Blunt;13567114
One of the definitions of love is when you respect the other person and deny selfish acts that would hurt the one you love. Erich Fromm said:


> “Love is the active concern for that which is loved”[/U]
> 
> When a wife goes seeking other men to get attention from them, which she should get from her husband, this will give the husband a sense of rejection and failure and other emotions that will negatively affect the bonding and love in a marriage. That is NOT the active concern for that which is loved but is selfish and disrespectful. You do that to your husband and that is one of your lifestyles that have negatively affected your husband.* If you really wanted to couldn’t you change that?*


*

But I don't want to. And I don't know how to make myself want to. I know I can fake a change for his sake for awhile, but my real self will eventually show through. 


You are afraid that your husband will abandon you and you think that you and he will go your separate ways. If significant improvements are not made I would bet money you are right. Are you willing to improve that?

I think no matter what I do, no matter what I give up, he will eventually leave. Ive known that since day 1. And it isn't a feeling I can change. I feel like if make changes and become vulnerable to him and then that is when he will leave. When I stop being strong, he will take advantage of my weakness.


LadyoftheLake, I do not know if you really are completely void of some of the aspects of love or have a deficiency in your capacity for empathy and love, have built a defense against love, or if you are embellishing your attitude and beliefs so that you can get more male attention. Do your really feel that if your husband had an intimate affair with another woman that you would feel that it is “fine” with you and it would not “...affect you either way”?
[/QUOTE]

I really don't think it would bother me. I can't imagine feelings of rage or jealousy. I don't feel like it would affect me at all. What he does is his own business. I have no control over that, nor do I want it. How would it affect me anyway? I'm not involved. Off and on over the years I've suspected he had a girl on the side but I never said anything because I really didn't feel it was any of my business who he spends his time with. He is a grown man and I'm not his mother. I refuse to keep tabs on him.*


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Ladyofthelake
I think your mind, attitude, and emotions are twisted. I am not saying that to kick you in the face it is really what I see in what you have posted above. 

I really hope that you get some professional help because I think that we on this forum cannot help you enough. I know for sure that I cannot. I wish you a much better future


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I said "crutch," I did not say "blame."


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LOTL, do you think you might be subconsciously trying to sabotage the marriage through these relationships with other men in an attempt to preemptively end the relationship? After all, you said they all leave. Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy?


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

Pidge 70: I have always liked you, never thought your posts were horrible and hope that things are getting better, and I'm an ASPIE.
As for LOTL. I hope that you never get back at you the full measure of what you have been dishing out. 
Now, I know you don't give an "F" about what I might say but then, when the sh*t hits your fan, I really don't give an "F" that it happened to you. I am worried, though, that I will live near enough to you to hear you caterwauling about how unfair the world is.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> LOTL, do you think you might be subconsciously trying to sabotage the marriage through these relationships with other men in an attempt to preemptively end the relationship? After all, you said they all leave. Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy?


I think you nailed it. 

Why should she care about protecting her marriage when her husband is just going to up and leave her down the road anyways? It gives her the perfect excuse to do what she does.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

bandit.45:" I think you nailed it. 

Why should she care about protecting her marriage when her husband is just going to up and leave her down the road anyways? It gives her the perfect excuse to do what she does." 

I think it might be a little more twisted then that.

She is an ASPIE with an exaggerated sense of herself and she gets her thrills manipulating these other men, but does not get involved with them to protect her marriage. Even though she is protecting her marriage she has no trust or faith in men (from experience) so she expects her husband will leave, except that he is so understanding, strong, self-reliant and secure that he realizes that she is getting involved with these other men, but that she is protecting the marriage so that when he does leave it will be surprize that she expected.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Tasorundo said:
> 
> 
> > So you admire him and think he has a lot of good qualities[/QUOTE ]
> ...


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> He does seem to find my eccentricity appealing, when it's not driving him mad.
> 
> 
> I do not rage. It is unusual for me to get angry enough to lose my temper and when I do, it is ugly and I have the mouth of a sailor, but I am not ranting and screaming or carrying on. People who don't know me attribute my temper to me being a redhead. However, I know I am capable of great rage and violence. It has happened once before. I think the medications I'm on keep me on a pretty even keel.
> ...


I am starting to think this is just one big sh!t test that your husband continues to fail and that is what gets you off.

You deny his weakness and continue to test him

One day he may not fail

What then LOTL ?

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> You make a good point there. I hadn't thought of that. I do change my mind/ stance frequently when presented with new information. Or when my situation changes. But only on superficial things. Things that really matter, that really affect me, I don't change.
> 
> So while I may have made a promise 2 years ago not to talk about our stuff online, I have long since forgotten about it. It wasn't an issue that I placed any importance in. Having a person intimately touch me, and get all in my space and having to smell them and be exposed to fluids and germs and odours and hair....just no. So much no. I can't begin to say how much that won't happen. My aversion to touch manifested when I was 6 months old. It will never change.
> 
> Furthermore, I'm not looking for absolution, or permission, here. Ultimately, I will decide how to proceed. What I want from TAM is an anonymous peek inside a "normal" human brain and get an unbiased point if view.* I suppose it isn't possible for a totally unbiased POV in an infidelity forum though. I didn't think of that till just now.*


LOTL I have never learned a thing in a room full of like minded people!

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I've always expected him to leave, for one reason or another. I still do. It has been my experience that all men leave. I am actually astonished on one hand that he is still here, but on the other I'm not as that is the type of person he is.
> 
> I still think that eventually we will go our separate ways. He says we won't. But I will never trust anyone to say that. I just can't. And he knows this.
> 
> So yea or no: yes.


Okay now I get it

55


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

gouge_away said:


> Do Aspies have to fight the urge to cut?
> The manipulation pathology...
> Self mutilation...
> Flagrant promiscuity...
> ...


Or a narcissist or a troll. Yes, this was called some time ago but the irate, or possibly bored, mob continues to feed this beast.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

I like threads like these. In the unlikely event I'm ever in the dating scene again, I have a much better understanding of what type of people to avoid. (Note to self: Aspies are out, sorry)


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