# Masturbation is "taking a beating" (pun intended)



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Quite a few people lately have posted about their spouse (usually a guy) watching porn and masturbating and how it upsets them.

I can see if they are denying you sex and choosing it instead but what about those that get denied sex and chose to do it as a release?

What is everyone's thought on that? (And yes, for the record, my wife says No to sex around 50% of the time I try to initiate and I will go check out something and then take care of myself so full disclosure there) So I am not asking for approval of what I do, just curious of opinions.

And yes I know some will say try to make it better but its been this way for years and she admits she just has no interest in sex more than the once a week or every ten days we do it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> what about those that get denied sex and chose to do it as a release?


If they don't provide sex for their man, they should shut the hell up and live with his masturbation. They have no right to be upset about it, only if he is doing it and denying them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Oh, I think masturbation should be part of everyone's life and is healthy. I don't think a steady diet of porn usually leads to very good things, though. Lots of down sides, unrealistic expectations, insulting to the partner with comparisons, not to mention the human trafficking element and how messed up people, especially women, have to be to agree to do it, even for money. Getting too used to favorite, often unrealistic, scenarios, placing pressure on the partner to do things no one who wasn't a porn actress or sex slave would do, making the man wish his partner's body was something no one's is without surgery. 

I think both men and women should masturbate, but if they don't need it any worse than to have to jack themselves up with images of fake body parts and closeups of orifices, then maybe they just don't need to do it that bad yet and should wait until nature calls in the shower or something.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

I never felt good about masturbation even though I wasn’t discouraged or encouraged about it growing up. I just always had some guilt or shame about it in the back of my mind.... sort of like real men don’t do to that. Then as I got older and started attending church l learned this was technically a “mortal sin” and so with some effort gave it up (along with viewing porn, lingerie ads, swimsuit stuff etc.). Happy about it and despite that I’m an ordinary sinful man, this at least is one thing I can give to my wife.. my devotion (she may not even be fully aware of this gift).


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Donny69 said:


> Then as I got older and started attending church l learned this was technically a “mortal sin”


Could you clarify this? I'm assuming this type of sin has its foundation in a biblical verse. Is that correct?


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> Could you clarify this? I'm assuming this type of sin has its foundation in a biblical verse. Is that correct?


There was a dude in the old testament that got yelled at by God for "spilling his seed on the ground" instead of begetting children. I think that is the source for some denominations saying masturbation being a serious no-no.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

Sorry but I don’t know. Please write or call in to “Catholic Answers” or perhaps a local parish priest. I’m just an ordinary dude with no theological training and I’ll make any reason sound just completely stupid lol.

I’m sort of under the belief that any suffering you can do out of love for someone else is worth it. Obviously it is impossible in this life to prove that... it’s just a hunch.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

The minor biblical character, Onan, was mentioned in Genesis. He "spilled his seed" in direct disobedience to God. God commanded Onan to impregnate a woman (I believe it was his widowed SIL) and he refused. His "sin" had nothing to do with masturbation. So, uh no .... masturbation is not a "mortal" sin. The Catholic church, into which I was indoctrinated as a child, has established more guilt in people than I can even fathom.

My husband and I were lapsed Catholics who chose to affiliate with another faith just because of stuff like this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Masturbation isnt actually forbidden in the Bible as far as I can see, but lusting after other people(porn use) is. They are two different things and you can obviously masturbate without porn.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Well, we just found out on another thread that at least some of the authors of the Bible weren't married, up to and including Jesus, so I realize they lived short lives, but I'm betting they did some masturbating.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Theologically, I'd say the main problem with masterbation and pornography is the self centeredness of it - and also the lack of reality.

These are basically lesser substitutes.

We use our imaginations as a way to be independent and escape.

It's taking, as opposed to giving and has nothing to do with relationships, which is what we've been created for.

So, we choose to be our own god and replace what's acceptable with an inferior alternative.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, we just found out on another thread that at least some of the authors of the Bible weren't married, up to and including Jesus, so I realize they lived short lives, but I'm betting they did some masturbating.


Not everyone masturbates.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

We can all quote obscure biblical verses however anyone that has read the Gospels and comes away thinking they can play with themselves at will is effed in the head.

How’s that for a sound theological argument lol?


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Last year I was in the hospital for a week. I know my boyfriend took care of his own needs while I was unavailable. I have zero problem with this. The only way I'd have a problem is if he starts watching porn and then shifts from wanting me to wanting porn and his own hand. Um nope.

My guy is not really into porn though. Not that he's never seen it but most girls in porn now are just that girls, and that ruins it for him. He has 2 daughters and the thought of them doing that is just too much for him. So when he sees it all he can think is "she is somebody's daughter."

As for the wife who doesn't want sex and forbids masturbation...um...there is only one other way your man will get his needs met. Celibacy and monogamy do not go well together. He's gonna give up one or the other to get his needs met. And since you forbid both...he's not going to bother to ask you which one you want him to give up.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Donny69 said:


> We can all quote obscure biblical verses however anyone that has read the Gospels and comes away thinking they can play with themselves at will is effed in the head.
> 
> How’s that for a sound theological argument lol?


So you want to say that it's wrong even though the Bible makes no mention of it? In marriage, each should meet each other's sexual needs, but many people are single.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> So you want to say that it's wrong even though the Bible makes no mention of it? In marriage, each should meet each other's sexual needs, but many people are single.


The Bible also doesn’t say you can’t eat people. That doesn’t make it right.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Donny69 said:


> The Bible also doesn’t say you can’t eat people. That doesn’t make it right.


We can't make up what we think God wants and doesn't want. He created us to be sexual beings and for those who are single or who have to spend a long time apart from their spouse for work etc, I see no Biblical reason why that is wrong. As long as no porn is used.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

OK so a little bit of thread drift from my original post but that's OK, its all good.

As a follow up, I saw a few mention the fakeness of porn with altered bodies and abuse of those in it and such. While I do agree that bad things happen from some aspects of porn, is it any different if one watches porn made by amateur couples of say a husband and wife who are both willing participants and aren't in it for anything more than being exhibitionists? Just curious if this changes the perception of porn for some?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm sure there's different degrees, but there's still something going on there. and I don't think a lot of those women know they're being filmed either.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Kind of ironic. Some people have had their significant others tell them not to masturbate and my ex told me that was the purpose of my right hand (IE to take care of the things she didn't want to).

It seems to me that either you can be glad to participate in sexual activities with your SO or you can be glad that they're taking care of it themselves since you don't want to. I'm not sure refusing sex and not "allowing" your SO to masturbate is or is not abuse but it sure doesn't make a ton of sense.

If masturbation replaces your willing SO or causes performance issues, then there's a problem and probably a serious one.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> While I do agree that bad things happen from some aspects of porn, is it any different if one watches porn made by amateur couples of say a husband and wife who are both willing participants and aren't in it for anything more than being exhibitionists? Just curious if this changes the perception of porn for some?


Back when I was in college and porn was all on VHS, I realized that it was all fake. Once I figured that out I have never been able to enjoy professionally produced porn as it is just blah. Today's professionally produced porn is no different as there is just nothing exciting about watching people get paid to have pretend sex. 

Awkwardly there is too much professional porn that masquerades itself as amateur porn done by exhibitionists. If there are multiple camera angles that tend to move around and follow the action (no matter how bad the lighting is), then it is professionally produced. The people you are watching are getting paid to pretend that they are amateurs enjoying sex. And then you have the hidden camera crap with a staged piece of cardboard framing the scene as if it is the camera is cleverly hidden in a box or something. NO! These are professionals using a cardboard prop to make you think the camera is hidden. 

...and if there is genuine arousal with a real couple willing to share on a porn site, it is so buried in all the fake stuff that you will never find it. Because the people making money are hustling and promoting their stuff. You'll find forums where people argue if porn is real and some user will point out that their stuff is and get all defensive. This is just someone out hustling and being a paid influencer to promote professionally produced stuff to try and make you think it is real. 

It is all fake! Or as Ron Jeremy might say, it is an industry that is all about monetizing fantasy. 

Badsanta


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

badsanta said:


> Back when I was in college and porn was all on VHS, I realized that it was all fake. Once I figured that out I have never been able to enjoy professionally produced porn as it is just blah. Today's professionally produced porn is no different as there is just nothing exciting about watching people get paid to have pretend sex.
> 
> Awkwardly there is too much professional porn that masquerades itself as amateur porn done by exhibitionists. If there are multiple camera angles that tend to move around and follow the action (no matter how bad the lighting is), then it is professionally produced. The people you are watching are getting paid to pretend that they are amateurs enjoying sex. And then you have the hidden camera crap with a staged piece of cardboard framing the scene as if it is the camera is cleverly hidden in a box or something. NO! These are professionals using a cardboard prop to make you think the camera is hidden.
> 
> ...


I disagree badsanta especially as I know two couples who post on amateur sites. I won't post the sites here so as to stay within the rules but many of these are easily findable on Google. One does it for money and they make a few bucks letting others watch them. Sure they are in their 50s and not in the best physical condition but they are doing it!

So I agree that much of the porn is staged or fake but not ALL of it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> OK so a little bit of thread drift from my original post but that's OK, its all good.
> 
> As a follow up, I saw a few mention the fakeness of porn with altered bodies and abuse of those in it and such. While I do agree that bad things happen from some aspects of porn, is it any different if one watches porn made by amateur couples of say a husband and wife who are both willing participants and aren't in it for anything more than being exhibitionists? Just curious if this changes the perception of porn for some?


Its still porn whether professional or amateur.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I am not ant-porn and I am not anti-spank in any way. 

But whether it is good, bad or indifferent depends on the circumstances and details. 

If a couple has an active and healthy sex life that both find basically satisfying and one is feeling a bit randy one night and the other doesn't feel well or isn't home or otherwise not available - then why the hell not? Seems like a perfectly normal and healthy thing to do. 

Where it gets problematic though is when it is impacting the relationship and sexual dynamics of the relationship. 

If one person is being denied and going unsatisfied because the other is taking matters into their own hand - that's a problem. 

I think even in the case where one party is being denied and rejected consistently and chronically, I think that turning to one's own hand can play a role in prolonging the underlying problem. 

Let me put it this way, when one has a full tank and the pressure is building, they become more assertive and more likely to take some kind of action. A tiger becomes aggressive and on the prowl more and takes more risks and travels further in his/her search area the hungrier he/she is. 

Conversely, when one has a freshly drained tank and they are full of the post-orgasm feel-good hormones, they are more likely to just sit there and mellow.....until the pressure starts building again. 

The problem here is if one gets too used to taking care of themselves and becomes too good at it and settles for it - then the underlying issues don't get addressed and the dysfunctional status quo just continues. 

These dudes that come here whining that their wives haven't touched them in 3 years, I can pretty much guarantee you that they have become very efficient at draining their own tank and taking care of themselves. 

Otherwise any healthy, vigorous dude with a full tank would either be addressing the issue at home within a couple weeks and not taking "not in the mood" for an answer, or they would be out hitting the streets looking for some kind of substitute or replacement. 

I think the more these guys rely on virtual sex and self-gratification, the less inclined they are to seek resolution to the issues at home and less inclined to seek it elsewhere. 

IMHO the more you want to have real sex - the less you should probably be having of self-sex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I am not ant-porn and I am not anti-spank in any way.
> 
> But whether it is good, bad or indifferent depends on the circumstances and details.
> 
> ...


I'm kind of picking on the guys here because they are the ones that usually get the bad rap for porn and spanking but the above applies to women too. 

If all they need to do is reach into the drawer and pull out their Battery-Operated- Boyfriend (BOB) and pop one (or several ) off without having to rely on some guy's skillz and stamina, it's easy to let things slide and not address getting their needs met via the real thing. 

At it's core, masturbation can become the easy way out for both men and women.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Back when I was in college and porn was all on VHS, I realized that it was all fake. Once I figured that out I have never been able to enjoy professionally produced porn as it is just blah. Today's professionally produced porn is no different as there is just nothing exciting about watching people get paid to have pretend sex.
> 
> Awkwardly there is too much professional porn that masquerades itself as amateur porn done by exhibitionists. If there are multiple camera angles that tend to move around and follow the action (no matter how bad the lighting is), then it is professionally produced. The people you are watching are getting paid to pretend that they are amateurs enjoying sex. And then you have the hidden camera crap with a staged piece of cardboard framing the scene as if it is the camera is cleverly hidden in a box or something. NO! These are professionals using a cardboard prop to make you think the camera is hidden.
> 
> ...


In our swinging days, we played with a couple that now has a few videos on the porn sites. They are even professionally produced and distributed videos. In other words, they are a real couple having sex with other swinging couples on camera. And having been with her myself, I can say that she is doing what she does and what she enjoys even when behind closed without the cameras rolling.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> One does it for money and they make a few bucks letting others watch them.





oldshirt said:


> In our swinging days, we played with a couple that now has a few videos on the porn sites. They are even professionally produced and distributed videos. In other words, they are a real couple having sex with other swinging couples on camera.


At the end of the day, EVERYBODY in a porn is a REAL person and many people know them personally. They make money, and they network with other couples to help build an audience. It is the way porn works. 

Perhaps some folks can stage a genuine climax on camera and do it without any problem. They could probably climax with any random household object or any random stranger for that matter and even do it on camera to an exact countdown. Does that make it real? Some people would argue yes, and most others would say that it is just a staged fantasy.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

badsanta said:


> At the end of the day, EVERYBODY in a porn is a REAL person and many people know them personally. They make money, and they network with other couples to help build an audience. It is the way porn works.
> 
> Perhaps some folks can stage a genuine climax on camera and do it without any problem. They could probably climax with any random household object or any random stranger for that matter and even do it on camera to an exact countdown. Does that make it real? Some people would argue yes, and most others would say that it is just a staged fantasy.


Bad,

I won't debate semantics with you. All I know is people I know who have regular 9 to 5 jobs have sex and video tape it for others to watch. And thousands of others do it too and its not fake and no one is abusing anyone in the process. In fact the couple I know is online right now doing it.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Bad,
> 
> I won't debate semantics with you. All I know is people I know who have regular 9 to 5 jobs have sex and video tape it for others to watch. And thousands of others do it too and its not fake and no one is abusing anyone in the process. In fact the couple I know is online right now doing it.


Well you asked what are other's opinions, and in my opinion watching people stage a sex act primarily for the purpose of others to view is a pretend fantasy. To some people fantasies are very real. I guess it is an "eye of the beholder" type thing. Those that are into role play are specifically geared to enjoy pretend fantasy while others are not and see it as something fake. 

Take the three primary modes of sexuality:

Sensation based
Partner based
Role Play

The Partner based folks are primarily driven by "knowing" somebody. So if these people you know are online doing it and based on the fact that you have met them in person and you know for a fact that they enjoy you viewing their content, then I would agree that everything is likely very real for you. Now if these people dressed up in costumes to where you could no longer recognize them and posted content under a different user name while behaving exactly like cos-play characters from a comic book with super powers... perhaps your mode of sexuality is not tuned into role play and that would ruin it for you. You would see it as something fake looking. Meanwhile to the cosplay folks that would be way more real than the videos where they are just themselves. The sensation-based folks would not be able to get past the idea of how it feels to have sex in a costume and would wonder if materials feel too uncomfortable on the skin. 

So real people to real things is perhaps about the eye of the beholder. In my opinion I just see people trying to make a little extra money and that ruins it because it is all about how the content is monetized. Virtually the same as prostitution. 

When it comes to erotic media that I do enjoy... that would be a well written book on sexual psychology that pulls away the metaphorical fantasy curtain like in the Wizard of Oz and shows you the little person pulling all the leavers. Pay no attention to that! Because those are the materials that help me better understand myself and my wife as well as provide me with new ideas about improving intimacy in my marriage (via some fairly exciting fantasies that my mind can serve up that later I make into a reality). 

But that is me and most folks would find reading books and thinking of their wife to be boring. Not for me.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Masturbation within a marriage is fine as long as it isn't something you lie about ("No, I don't masturbate" when you do) or something that becomes a substitute or avoidance of sex with your partner. Frankly, we have plenty of masturbation "tools" - the best of which are for my husband since he prefers far more frequency and variety than I do. But he struggles with being comfortable and open about it. 

I've read all of this thread and clearly there are life experiences that have created (sadly) obstacles for people enjoying their sexuality.

Personally, I'm grateful to some degree for those who are willing to open themselves up to sharing through porn HOWEVER, I do find that the porn industry has pushed boundaries out so far that much of it has become unhealthy - gang bangs - outrageous acts of hazardous activities that physically harm the performers. That bothers me - a lot. 

There are certain actors, therefore, that I consider favorites who don't treat women brutally, who actually enjoy and do things to see to that a woman is enjoying the sex.

One think I will say is that there is NOT ENOUGH porn for heterosexual women. It seems to all be about getting a guy off. So, for that reason, I feel pretty bored with it. 

As for masturbation for myself, I only would do it if the urge was so great that I couldn't wait for my husband. That has happened every now and then but for whatever reason, I don't feel a need to masturbate to the frequency that my husband does. He will masturbate once a day whether we have sex or not. It just feels good and, well, there's that hard-on so why waste it? 

Again, whatever, that's a personal business - but, to me, it's uncool if you lie about it, hide it, or use it to substitute intimacy with your spouse. I'm not saying "shame-shame" - I'm saying, that if it becomes a substitute, then it's time to talk about what's the issues that are probably going on that might need to be resolved...like "I'm feeling insecure" "I'm feeling stressed about..." that kind of thing.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

As a man I just don’t get it. I feel better about exerting a little self control and saving myself for the joyous time when I get to reunite with my wife. Porn and masturbation just seem so juvenile and low character. The longer the wait, the more thrilling and joyous the reunion. But to each his own I guess.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Donny69 said:


> As a man I just don’t get it. I feel better about exerting a little self control and saving myself for the joyous time when I get to reunite with my wife. Porn and masturbation just seem so juvenile and low character. The longer the wait, the more thrilling and joyous the reunion. But to each his own I guess.


Unless you have to wait a week...then its 10 days...then sometimes two weeks....


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

happiness27 said:


> Masturbation within a marriage is fine as long as it isn't something you lie about ("No, I don't masturbate" when you do) or something that becomes a substitute or avoidance of sex with your partner. Frankly, we have plenty of masturbation "tools" - the best of which are for my husband since he prefers far more frequency and variety than I do. But he struggles with being comfortable and open about it.
> 
> I've read all of this thread and clearly there are life experiences that have created (sadly) obstacles for people enjoying their sexuality.
> 
> ...


I like that you are apparently Ok with your husbands needs to do it more often even though you may not be interested. Thats great to hear!


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

It would be presumptuous to say that I wasn't interested. I'm always interested in having sex. I'm just not interested in having bad sex or mixing pain with sex.

I went through a period of time where I was in physical pain due to a condition that surgery solved. It didn't involve my sex organs but I was still in pain and that makes it very difficult to have sex. I did what I could for him sexually but, frankly, I just couldn't keep up with the frequency. Now that the surgery has resolved the pain issue and we've resumed having sex regularly again, he doesn't have the urge to masturbate like he did - nor do I.

Then, there is the matter of me speaking up about what I wanted to satisfy me vs what satisfies him. He's pretty easy to please. But as I got older and more confident in what kind of stimulations I wanted and liked, I began asserting myself more - and this caused some anxiety and conflict. My husband had a hard time understanding that, as a woman, i don't experience sex the same way as a man experiences sex. You don't just rub and rub and that makes the magic on a woman like it does on a man. Also, the sex had been mostly making sure HE was pleased. And I just kept things to myself if I didn't orgasm.

When I stopped doing that and began talking about what I would like, I think my husband resorted to masturbation more often - possibly out of performance anxiety. That's a really difficult phase. He got the book "She Comes First" and started applying the suggestions there - which greatly helped. I won't stay silent about what I want anymore - no matter what the consequences. I love sex and I expect my husband to be just as interested and interactive in my experience as I am in his. If this caused some anxiety masturbation for him, I get it. But he eventually had to embrace his ability and self-confidence to make the leap from anxiety masturbation to real life sex. He's a 1000% more skilled since he decided to listen to what I like and DO THAT rather than resist it. I think it was really hard for him to let go of the concept that it was his c**k that caused all my excitement - and realize that there are other hand and oral techniques as well as dirty talk - sexy brain activity - that make sex fun for me, his partner. He loves it now - but it didn't come easily or naturally to him.

This is life in marriage. It's not perfect because life isn't perfect. You take the great with the difficulties and find ways to navigate. It's a bumpy road at times. But for those who find satisfaction in long term relationships, we prefer this to changing partners when things get difficult.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Donny69 said:


> We can all quote obscure biblical verses however anyone that has read the Gospels and comes away thinking they can play with themselves at will is effed in the head.


Could you please quote specific verses? I didn't realize biblical verses of any kind were considered "obscure" ....


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Donny69 said:


> We can all quote obscure biblical verses however anyone that has read the Gospels and comes away thinking they can play with themselves at will is effed in the head.
> 
> How’s that for a sound theological argument lol?


Each to their own. One of the critical points from the bible is no one barring Christ is perfect and all have sinned. 

I'm not saying pro, con, but if calling it a sin, one has to be careful of trying to say "well it's a worse sin".


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Oh wow. I came in here to read some good masturbation stories. How did the Bible quotes come about? Oh ok. I see how. Hey ... if God hadn’t wanted me to masturbate, why’d he make me so damned sexy.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Donny69 said:


> We can all quote obscure biblical verses however anyone that has read the Gospels and comes away thinking they can play with themselves at will is effed in the head.
> 
> How’s that for a sound theological argument lol?


Kindly, not.

Not pro, con, but keep trying 🙂


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

I've been masturbating since I was 10 and even then as a church-going girl, I was clear enough in the head to hear that "God made everything" and be able to apply it to the pleasure of orgasm. It wasn't "dirty" - I was innocent.

Now...if you want to get into "sin" - then going down the path of masturbating to a woman who is not yours, especially one you know who is not aware of your sexual attraction to her - then you are going to start getting into a territory that might not be good. A sin = "to miss the mark" - meaning probably not a path you want to take because somebody down the road could get hurt with that kind of thinking and lead to a behavior that you don't want.

Here's another scenario, though - when I met my husband before we were married, both of us had sexual thoughts about the other that led each of us to masturbate about the other before we actually had sex. I don't see anything wrong with that. We waited awhile to get to know each other before deciding to have sex. In the meantime, we were considering our sexual attraction to each other - which seems like a healthy behavior for us. Other people might not be comfortable with that - but we are who we are, I guess.

You know, each of us has our journey in this earthly life - and thankfully in many countries, most of us get to pursue that journey taking our own paths. When we hit a snag or learn a hard lesson about masturbation, then that lesson belongs to the individual. Far be it from me to point at another person here and say that they should or shouldn't masturbate. Everybody has to figure this out for themselves what they are comfortable living with.

I walked away from organized religion several times in my life - from hard-liner Baptists to Buddhism - they all have their dogma and restrictions that poke holes in your happiness while professing to be the path to happiness. I now have my own personal relationship with my understanding of what spirit means. Maybe I would be a "better person" if I was some this or that religious person - I don't know. I live by the Golden Rule and leave it at that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> I've been masturbating since I was 10 and even then as a church-going girl, I was clear enough in the head to hear that "God made everything" and be able to apply it to the pleasure of orgasm. It wasn't "dirty" - I was innocent.
> 
> Now...if you want to get into "sin" - then going down the path of masturbating to a woman who is not yours, especially one you know who is not aware of your sexual attraction to her - then you are going to start getting into a territory that might not be good. A sin = "to miss the mark" - meaning probably not a path you want to take because somebody down the road could get hurt with that kind of thinking and lead to a behavior that you don't want.
> 
> ...


A very admirable and apropos response.


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## Rivercat (Dec 4, 2019)

As a struggling yet real born again bible believing Christian, this is a sin I fought for years. Anyone that has a legitimate relationship with God and tries to cultivate that relationship will know that it calls for self-denial. We see fasting repeatedly in not only the Old Testament but the New as well as a tool for putting the outward “flesh” in subjection to strengthen and feed the inner man or spirit with truth. One becomes spiritual as he dies to self and carnality and stops “doing right in his own eyes” and begins trying to mimic the walk and ways of Jesus. 

All this being said marriage is delt with in 1 Corinthians 7:1-10 where Paul explains that it is profitable to godliness and ministry to be alone and celibate as he was but that if we “cannot contain” we need to marry for it is “better to marry then to burn” meaning burn with lust. And that as one body joined the husbands body belongs to the wife and vise versa. The text gives one excuse to stop sex and that is for prayer and fasting to renew focus or victory in spiritual warefare. I struggled with this for years and finally realized that daily masturbation from a teen to recently made me a sex addict and that I was stirring up my own sinful lustfulness and that it is entirely biblically possible to go without sex forever if that addiction was broken so I broke it. 

My wife is LD and I being overweight and less than average active am probably MD. So we fought for years I would deny her the things she wanted out of me which was to be a good listener, not to explicitly clean the house daily but to be willing to help and to help cook and wash clothes and to be available when needed. I would also get frustrated and mad if we went on dates or trips or I gave her gifts that didn’t result in sex. 
And in turn because I was a demanding jerk and refused to meet her needs she would deny me sex even when she probably wanted it just based on her drive. 

From reading here and books somewhere i found this quote “if the husband gives the wife all the romance she wants, the wife will give the husband all the sex he wants” 

Having broken the daily addiction to sex by stopping my masturbation I find it easy to simply quit wanting sex every day. Its easy to avoid lusting over other women or to be tempted into porn use which is definitely fornication and adultery. Please don’t call yourselves Christian if you use Porn without heavy conviction. And i have found since I am free from the addiction and in Gods will it is easy to see my wife as my gift and focus on positive aspects if my marriage and what a good mother and teacher she is to our children. Being free from the addiction I find myself actually enjoying sex when it actually happens. I find myself actually courting my wife in the home giving her hugs and kisses and wanting to cuddle her. God in his sovereignty even let the conversation come up when a friend of my wife’s son got caught masturbating and i was able to explain biblically to my wife the 1 Corinthians 7:1-10 text. This gave opportunity to explain how detrimental masturbation really is and how you cant really realize it until you purpose yourself to stop and how It is unfaithfulness on her part to deny my needs so that I would be tempted to masturbate or worse look at porn. 
I believe that any form of unmarried sex is lustful and selfish and adulterous including masturbation which you cannot hardly do without lusting over women that are not your wife which according to Matt 5 counts as adultery. However In the marriage bed I believe we as Gods born again people have liberty to do what we want as long as its comfortable and mutually agreed with both. Im not a fan of anything to do with the butt because its unclean. 

So again that said we are having the best time of our marriage, I don’t find myself pressuring her or propositioning her as before but more trying to touch and romance her as if we were dating and so far she seems to love it and seems to be making an effort to accommodate my higher drive. Our increased contact makes both of us feel loved and less like roommates and more like lovers which in turn helps me be more masculine and fully step up to the role of head of house which helps the whole family structure be closer to Gods design. 
As a porn user I found myself objectifying women and lusting over every attractive woman I saw having terrible unmentionable thoughts. As just a masturbator I saw myself doing the same to a lesser degree and objectifying my wife. I simply neglected her until I was tired of masturbating and finally forced her to have sex with me sometimes with zero romance or affection. 

Thats my take yours may be different
You may not Know God or Jesus at all but this can still work in your marriage. If you think I am extreme in my beliefs you may think you know Him and don’t. Either way I hope you do. Our parents and grandparents being fornicators and adulterous can open the door to generational curses that fall to us to break by the grace of God and blood sacrifice of Christ or else they continue on to our children. I am sure that teenagers that get caught sending penis pics to girls or people in the ministry that fall in infidelity or worse get caught abusing girls all started out being addicted to sex through masturbation. At the end no man can serve two masters. If you have a legitimate relationship with Jesus you cant have self-gratification addictions that He doesn’t eventually deal with you about. Its not about teachings or dogma or ordinances its about helping the relationship. God gives us all our human relationships to to show us the aspects of our relationship with him. We experience rebellion in our spouses or kids often the same time we are rebelling against him. 


I hope people are helped by what i wrote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Rivercat said:


> As a struggling yet real born again bible believing Christian, this is a sin I fought for years. Anyone that has a legitimate relationship with God and tries to cultivate that relationship will know that it calls for self-denial. We see fasting repeatedly in not only the Old Testament but the New as well as a tool for putting the outward “flesh” in subjection to strengthen and feed the inner man or spirit with truth. One becomes spiritual as he dies to self and carnality and stops “doing right in his own eyes” and begins trying to mimic the walk and ways of Jesus.
> 
> All this being said marriage is delt with in 1 Corinthians 7:1-7 where Paul explains that it is profitable to godliness and ministry to be alone and celibate as he was but that if we “cannot contain” we need to marry for it is “better to marry then to burn” meaning burn with lust. I struggled with this for years and finally realized that daily masturbation from a teen to recently made me a sex addict and that I was stirring up my own sinful lustfulness and that it is entirely biblically possible to go without sex forever if that addiction was broken so I broke it.
> 
> ...


I understand from studying the topic of porn in general journalistically that Christians have some of the biggest porn addiction of any group. No one is immune from sex or porn addiction. Life is stressful. Relationships are stressful. Sexual release (orgasm) and sexual tension (addictive chemical that are produced during arousal) are certainly among the avoidance techniques people use to navigate a world that can be really frightening.

It could be that turning to reassurances offered by religious teachings is something that CAN work. By embracing those, it could - for many - result in not relying on sexual means to reduce the stress and fears that come with navigating life's challenges. I can see how that can work. It's hard to explain how it is that so many religious people still get caught up in sexually addictive behaviors...other than that, well, we are all human.

I love how you said that you evolved through this and developed a different relationship with your wife that is more fulfilling for both of you. Porn and sex addiction have their ugly and empty dead ends where one comes face to face with the persistent unresolved loneliness. If religion helps a person find a way past that without injecting a sense that "Now I'm going to go out and proselytize "you should all accept Jesus as your savior or else go to hell" to the world, it sounds like a great positive step.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Weirdly appropriate given the way the discussion has gone:

Sin is when you treat people as things, even yourself.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

And...you know, just to be kind..."sin" is a word we have given to an experience that might be considered harmful in some way - we really need to take the shame out of it. Because, to me, sin was used as a club to beat people with. I think if you turn it around and give the control back to the person - show a person that they are the ones who get to make the decision and choice, then you have a better outcome. I like Rivercat's testimony because he tells his own story and struggle. I think this is how people are helped. By sharing the struggle. Not by telling someone else what they should or shouldn't think or do.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

If I refuse then it’s ok to masterbate. I don’t love the idea of my partner watching porn. I’m fine with it occasionally. 
I masterbate, and I watch porn probably 25-40% of the time.
I think it’s a problem when men can’t masterbate without it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator note: If you want to debate religious matters, please use the appropriate TAM forum. Thank you.*


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

As the discussion has progressed, I've noticed some have mentioned they are OK with "this" or "that" if their partner masturbates but maybe not "this". (i.e. OK with masturbating but not using porn to do so)

Do you think many couples have such conditions related to masturbation and are they followed and upheld? By that I am thinking if one spouse says No to sex and the other wants to "get off" on their own, are they obligated to follow any "masturbation rules"? Its just to me if you were concerned with how your partner is going to masturbate, you would just participate in sex with them even if just a HJ or some fingering?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

No rules, but always ready to join in the fun. Sex or masturbation, it's all good as long as we don't neglect each other, and so far we have not.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> No rules, but always ready to join in the fun. Sex or masturbation, it's all good as long as we don't neglect each other, and so far we have not.


Love that idea and way of thinking!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> And yes I know some will say try to make it better but its been this way for years and she admits she just has no interest in sex more than the once a week or every ten days we do it.


Wow once a week or every ten days for years is appalling. Although it is evident you accept this, so you are getting exactly what you have chosen.

That said absent making things better, I think you ought to just have sex with other people instead. Rather than relying on masturbation to fill such a large void.

Don't get me wrong I am not against masturbation or pornography.

Since for me, masturbation and viewing pornography and erotica is a plus activity on top of shared sex, rather than as a substitute for it. So if I found myself in a sexual relationship where insufficient sex became the norm, I would simply start having sex with other people instead of doing more masturbation.

Of which the closest I have ever come to being in a relationship with someone who expressed any reservation over pornography was with my now wife. When in our early days of dating (1996) she saw my small collection of hardcore pornographic magazines So Hard Core, Anal Sex and Sex Bizarre by Danish publisher Color Climax Corporation, plus Private and Triple X by Swedish publisher Private Media Group. Who in response to seeing them, she said something along the lines of "I don't know if I am okay with that.".

In response I told her I was fine with it, that I liked it and told her she ought to look at that stuff as well. Then after looking at it herself, thinking about it for a bit, she then told me she was fine with it. To the point that she remains fine with it all of these years later, With both of us on limited occasion posting some of our own extremely explicit homemade still photographic pornography, for free so others can enjoy some of our pictures on an appropriate website.

Aside from my wife's albeit short lived reservations, everyone else I have been with including my ex-wife, were all fine with pornography, masturbation etc., including for some of them posing for me painting or photographing them nude as well.

So for me masturbation and pornography has never been a notable issue. Just as a lack of sex has never been an issue either.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> As for the wife who doesn't want sex and forbids masturbation...um...there is only one other way your man will get his needs met. Celibacy and monogamy do not go well together. He's gonna give up one or the other to get his needs met. And since you forbid both...he's not going to bother to ask you which one you want him to give up.


i wonder sometimes if this is all some sort of cruel femdom torture. A woman knows their man is horny, but controls every little aspect of the husband's sex life....almost making him their sex slave. 

Some men like that sort of thing, most would not put up with it, and indeed would dump the woman, cheat on her, or just start ignoring her and masturbating away.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Personal said:


> Wow once a week or every ten days for years is appalling. Although it is evident you accept this, so you are getting exactly what you have chosen.
> 
> That said absent making things better, I think you ought to just have sex with other people instead. Rather than relying on masturbation to fill such a large void.
> 
> ...


From what I am reading here in the other posts and replies, the women you have known are in the minority.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> i wonder sometimes if this is all some sort of cruel femdom torture. A woman knows their man is horny, but controls every little aspect of the husband's sex life....almost making him their sex slave.
> 
> Some men like that sort of thing, most would not put up with it, and indeed would dump the woman, cheat on her, or just start ignoring her and masturbating away.


I wonder as well and I do believe these kind of things lead to infidelity as look, that was even suggested in one or two of the other replies.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I do not care if my partner does it, as long as it is not instead of me, but in addition..


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I wonder as well and I do believe these kind of things lead to infidelity as look, that was even suggested in one or two of the other replies.


well, of course.
if you are horny, and your spouse is torturing you with it....
many will go find a new person. someone at work. another person in a sexless marriage. a hooker. 

the temptations are out there. if you have not gotten laid in 6 months, and a sexy newcomer makes it very clear they want to get laid.....that is a very powerful thing to ignore!

in a case like that, i do not think the cheating spouse deserves all the blame. maybe 50% blame on the cheater, and 50% blame on the person denying them any sex?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> From what I am reading here in the other posts and replies, the women you have known are in the minority.


Not in Australia or Europe.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, we just found out on another thread that at least some of the authors of the Bible weren't married, up to and including Jesus, so I realize they lived short lives, but I'm betting they did some masturbating.


Jesus was a man, so he had needs.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Personal said:


> Not in Australia or Europe.


There are over 12 million women in Australia and over 386 million in Europe. 

I'm guessing you've been very busy to know the sexual appetites of the majority.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Jesus was a man, so he had needs.


He was tempted but remained true. Most are tempted- and masturbate. 😢


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Donny69 said:


> We can all quote obscure biblical verses however anyone that has read the Gospels and comes away thinking they can play with themselves at will is effed in the head.
> 
> How’s that for a sound theological argument lol?


Lol. 
Not agreeing but the response is indeed funny if a bit silly.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Please educate @CatholicDad


Maybe you should educate yourself and try “liking” one of my anti-porn or anti-masturbation posts. Looks like your Southern Baptist leadership kind of agrees: On Pornography And Sexual Purity - SBC.net


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

So if someone - man or woman - is stranded alone on an island for decades, they will be sinning if they pleasure themselves? Sorry. Not buying that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Maybe you should educate yourself and try “liking” one of my anti-porn or anti-masturbation posts. Looks like your Southern Baptist leadership kind of agrees: On Pornography And Sexual Purity - SBC.net


Man, I don't always agree with you, but I do approve of you trying to continue to grow in Christ. I do think of you as someone who's doing his/her best. And I'm quite sure we'd agree on other things.

But not on the subject that he/she who masturbates here and there is a bad, bad, bad and evil person.

That's just not biblical in context.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> So if someone - man or woman - is stranded alone on an island for decades, they will be sinning if they pleasure themselves? Sorry. Not buying that.


Well, at least they won't be watching porn


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Man, I don't always agree with you, but I do approve of you trying to continue to grow in Christ. I do think of you as someone who's doing his/her best. And I'm quite sure we'd agree on other things.
> 
> But not on the subject that he/she who masturbates here and there is a bad, bad, bad and evil person.
> 
> That's just not biblical in context.


I never said anyone was a “bad, bad or evil”. Masturbation is a serious sin, that’s all. Anyone trying to grow in holiness should fight like heck to avoid sinful habits.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I never said anyone was a “bad, bad or evil”. Masturbation is a serious sin, that’s all. Anyone trying to grow in holiness should fight like heck to avoid sinful habits.


And that we agree on 👍


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well, at least they won't be watching porn


I don't know, have you seen some of the ancient artifacts carved out of palm trees or driftwood, discovered by archeologists?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I never said anyone was a “bad, bad or evil”. Masturbation is a serious sin, that’s all. Anyone trying to grow in holiness should fight like heck to avoid sinful habits.


Are there any not serious sins?
PS I'm not rekindling a debate solely on masturbation.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> So if someone - man or woman - is stranded alone on an island for decades, they will be sinning if they pleasure themselves? Sorry. Not buying that.


Clearly it’s a sin but lesser than some hubby using porn because he’s angry at his wife. 



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Are there any not serious sins?
> PS I'm not rekindling a debate solely on masturbation.


Clearly sins vary in severity. If the 10 commandments aren’t involved, probably not serious. Some sins are so heinous there is no forgiveness- such as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Most hard core theologians agree too that there is a point where a repeated sin will not be forgiven. This should have everyone terrified… why we should work tirelessly on our salvation with “fear and trembling”.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> I never said anyone was a “bad, bad or evil”. Masturbation is a serious sin, that’s all. Anyone trying to grow in holiness should fight like heck to avoid sinful habits.


Except Gods word never says it's a sin.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

It’s always the case of “if you are not having sex with him, then somebody else will”. And in some cases, that’s porn.

which one is worse then? Porn or an affair? The lesser of two evil?

I don’t see “porn” as a “good thing” per say. As least you won’t be posting up on your favorite social media and proclaim your choices of excellent porn today. And I agree on the many down side of porn. But then, if the wife is not giving it up, then it becomes “what would you lose”?

I don’t know. Just throwing some bones out there.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DLC said:


> It’s always the case of “if you are not having sex with him, then somebody else will”. And in some cases, that’s porn.
> 
> which one is worse then? Porn or an affair? The lesser of two evil?
> 
> ...


I can understand using porn to provide relief if the sexual drought - so to speak - has lasted for months with no end in sight.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DLC said:


> It’s always the case of “if you are not having sex with him, then somebody else will”. And in some cases, that’s porn.
> 
> which one is worse then? Porn or an affair? The lesser of two evil?
> 
> ...


Its like saying is it better to punch someone or kick them, both are wrong.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I can understand using porn to provide relief if the sexual drought - so to speak - has lasted for months with no end in sight.


People seem to forget that its entirely possible to masturbate without using porn. People did it for thousands of years.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> People seem to forget that its entirely possible to masturbate without using porn. People did it for thousands of years.


Except, why are there rules to be established about masturbation? There are no rules for how I take a shower or how I brush my teeth or other body-related functions? Why does anyone get to dictate how someone else pleasures themselves?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> People seem to forget that its entirely possible to masturbate without using porn. People did it for thousands of years.


That’s true but some inspiration helps the imagination at times.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Except, why are there rules to be established about masturbation? There are no rules for how I take a shower or how I brush my teeth or other body-related functions? Why does anyone get to dictate how someone else pleasures themselves?


Exactly!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

AGoodFlogging said:


> I'm guessing you've been very busy to know the sexual appetites of the majority.


The response you quoted was regarding a discussion of women's attitudes towards masturbation and pornography. Of which in my experience with women from more secular societies like Australia and Europe, they are more accepting of both versus what I read here on TAM from mostly American posters.

That said to answer your question, yep I have been very busy and have enjoyed far more than my fair share of women, from a range of socio economic groups, including some who are tertiary educated and some who are not, and some who are well travelled and some who were not.

Which also includes having been in two marriages (one still ongoing). With my ex-wife coming from England, with (black) African migrant parents with a smidgin of French thrown in the mix (her first language was French). While my current wife is Italian who has lived variously in Sicily and Australia, whose first language is unsurprisingly Italian.

Outside of them I have been with plenty of other women variously from Australia, England, European Russia, France, Germany, Ireland, Poland, Scotland, Spain and Japan. While most of those women were single at the time, between my first and second marriage. a small number of those women had boyfriends, or husbands at the time they were with me as well.

Oh and that includes having gotten three different women pregnant, on a number of occasions along the way as well (inclusive of my wife and ex-wife).

Although not the same thing I have also dated women from more countries than that, including women from Israel, Portugal, the Philippines and Cambodia. Yet aside from some snogging and sometimes fondling in some instances, I didn't end up having sex with them.

Then there's all of the women I know or have known as platonic friends, who have happily watched porn at parties and the like as well.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Except, why are there rules to be established about masturbation? There are no rules for how I take a shower or how I brush my teeth or other body-related functions? Why does anyone get to dictate how someone else pleasures themselves?


Christians we know that God is wise. Therefore if He says that lusting after someone of the opposite sex is adultery of the heart, then it is. 
For those who aren't Christians they are free to do what they want.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

it seems like men have the following predicaments
1) they masturbate, but their wife does not allow it and also gives them no sex--as a way to control and humiliate him.
2) they masturbate, their wife allows it in lieu of her ever giving him sex again
3) they masturbate, but only when their wife occasionally does not want sex or is travelling.
4) they masturbate ALL THE TIME, multiple times a day, to the sickest porn, to the point that they are so desensitized they can not have normal sex with their wives anymore.
5) They masturbate as a couple

looks to me that 1), 2) and 4) are problems, and the rest are fine!

(and, of course, women do the same)


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

You forgot one @Talker67.

6) They masturbate mostly at least once daily, their wife is and has always been fine with it, while they still with limited exception also share sex with their wife 2-3x a day on weekends plus at least once a day during at least 3 of the 5 weekdays and frequently more often than that as time affords.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> it seems like men have the following predicaments
> 1) they masturbate, but their wife does not allow it and also gives them no sex--as a way to control and humiliate him.
> 2) they masturbate, their wife allows it in lieu of her ever giving him sex again
> 3) they masturbate, but only when their wife occasionally does not want sex or is travelling.
> ...


Oh they do but never admit. Wives Union, ya know.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Christians we know that God is wise. Therefore if He says that lusting after someone of the opposite sex is adultery of the heart, then it is.
> For those who aren't Christians they are free to do what they want.


Jimmy Carter told Playboy Magazine he lusted in his heart. So despite doing all that good - building houses, etc. - he is going to Hell?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Jimmy Carter told Playboy Magazine he lusted in his heart. So despite doing all that good - building houses, etc. - he is going to Hell?


Where we go after we die is dependant on whether we follow Jesus or not. If we follow Him then we understand that He says things for good reason. Always for our own good.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Oh they do but never admit. Wives Union, ya know.


i wonder if they realize just how HOT us husbands would get if they DID admit it!...maybe even gave us a demonstration or two....


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Talker67 said:


> i wonder if they realize just how HOT us husbands would get if they DID admit it!...maybe even gave us a demonstration or two....


I can say personally, it's extremely hot. And never gets old.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> i wonder if they realize just how HOT us husbands would get if they DID admit it!...maybe even gave us a demonstration or two....


i've been given a demo a few times. mmm.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I can say personally, it's extremely hot. And never gets old.


I like when I get to help after I whisper "two hands are better than one."


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> i've been given a demo a few times. mmm.


We should come up with a list of what wives do to drive us nuts sexually!

Kind of like a "standard evidence gathering thread", but intended for those periodic "how do i spice up my marriage" threads!


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Except Gods word never says it's a sin.


These verses seem very clear. Isn’t masturbation the same thing as “sensuality” and “desire of the flesh”?

*Galatians 5:19-21 *
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
*1 John 2:15-17 *
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
*Ephesians 2:1-22 *
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— ...
*Galatians 5:19 *
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
*Romans 8:7 *
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
*Romans 8:13 *
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I like when I get to help after I whisper "two hands are better than one."


two hands and lips as well as her two hands and toys...the combinations are pretty much infinite!


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> These verses seem very clear. Isn’t masturbation the same thing as “sensuality” and “desire of the flesh”?
> 
> *Galatians 5:19-21 *
> Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
> ...


You’re Catholic. If you confess your sins, the slate is wiped clean. 99.9 percent of humanity at one time does one or more of the things Galatians mentions. It’s called being human. Repent, confess. Heaven awaits.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> You’re Catholic. If you confess your sins, the slate is wiped clean. 99.9 percent of humanity at one time does one or more of the things Galatians mentions. It’s called being human. Repent, confess. Heaven awaits.


Thanks for bringing that up. I didn't want to get into it.

For Christian non Catholics of course, Christ is your intercessor, one doesn't need a human to take the place of God so you can confess to another imperfect human. 

But that's not the topic of the thread, I'm not debating different religions here.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Interesting thread, so glad it wasn't posted on the "religion" forum...or was it?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> You’re Catholic. If you confess your sins, the slate is wiped clean. 99.9 percent of humanity at one time does one or more of the things Galatians mentions. It’s called being human. Repent, confess. Heaven awaits.


Didn’t work out for Judas though and he knew Jesus and believed in Him. Presumption is wrong but paradoxically so is despair.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> Didn’t work out for Judas though and he knew Jesus and believed in Him. Presumption is wrong but paradoxically so is despair.


Huh?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> Could you clarify this? I'm assuming this type of sin has its foundation in a biblical verse. Is that correct?


No. It is the fantasizing about someone who is not uour spouse that crosses that boundry.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> No. It is the fantasizing about someone who is not uour spouse that crosses that boundry.


A fantasy is just that. No touching.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> No. It is the fantasizing about someone who is not uour spouse that crosses that boundry.


I didn't ask you to clarify this, since you didn't post it. Regardless, you have not clarified squat for me.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Huh?


Sorry, what I meant was we aren’t assured of heaven by just playing confession like a game. We know Judas “the son of perdition” is in hell. He knew, believed in, and presumably loved Jesus. It wasn’t enough.

Most theologians agree to that there is a limit on how many times you can commit a sin and be forgiven. Only God knows that limit. I mentioned above the it is also clear in the Bible that some sins will not ever be forgiven (blaspheming the Holy Spirit for example). All that said, we should neither presume nor despair… but just fight like heck to overcome our sins and avoid temptation.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> Sorry, what I meant was we aren’t assured of heaven by just playing confession like a game. We know Judas “the son of perdition” is in hell. He knew, believed in, and presumably loved Jesus. It wasn’t enough.
> 
> Most theologians agree to that there is a limit on how many times you can commit a sin and be forgiven. Only God knows that limit. I mentioned above the it is also clear in the Bible that some sins will not ever be forgiven (blaspheming the Holy Spirit for example). All that said, we should neither presume nor despair… but just fight like heck to overcome our sins and avoid temptation.


How do we know where Judas is?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> Sorry, what I meant was we aren’t assured of heaven by just playing confession like a game. We know Judas “the son of perdition” is in hell. He knew, believed in, and presumably loved Jesus. It wasn’t enough.
> 
> Most theologians agree to that there is a limit on how many times you can commit a sin and be forgiven. Only God knows that limit. I mentioned above the it is also clear in the Bible that some sins will not ever be forgiven (blaspheming the Holy Spirit for example). All that said, we should neither presume nor despair… but just fight like heck to overcome our sins and avoid temptation.


OK its my thread (I am the OP) so I will continue the hijack.

So if masturbation\watching porn is a sin and its taught that divorce is also a sin, so if I bail out on the marriage because of a crappy sex life, then people like me are basically screwed because my wife doesn't want sex?

I find it hard to believe God hates me that much. I mean thats like saying I got hosed here on Earth by marrying the wrong person and yet if I try to make my Earthly life better, than I am just going to pay for eternity?

So guys like me just can't win???


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

Please people.........can we stick to the matter at hand? Lol


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Tested_by_stress said:


> Please people.........can we stick to the matter at hand? Lol


Please don't wipe it on the curtains.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Not sure how this got off the rails so swiftly.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> OK its my thread (I am the OP) so I will continue the hijack.
> 
> So if masturbation\watching porn is a sin and its taught that divorce is also a sin, so if I bail out on the marriage because of a crappy sex life, then people like me are basically screwed because my wife doesn't want sex?
> 
> ...


And don't forget the line "Everything happens for a reason". Which means he's screwing you over on purpose.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I find it hard to believe God hates me that much


He doesn't. John 3:16-19 summarizes how He sees everything, in just a few short verses.

A myriad of rules have been written by men as part of their religion. There are really only TWO laws, and they have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Maybe this gets deleted as a thread jack. My apologies.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

it is true that organized religion comes up with some really bizarre rules! Not sure if most of them are to serve god, or just give the religion more power to control you.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> OK its my thread (I am the OP) so I will continue the hijack.
> 
> So if masturbation\watching porn is a sin and its taught that divorce is also a sin, so if I bail out on the marriage because of a crappy sex life, then people like me are basically screwed because my wife doesn't want sex?
> 
> ...



God WANTS partners to have sex with each other, it's mentioned in the bible.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> OK its my thread (I am the OP) so I will continue the hijack.
> 
> So if masturbation\watching porn is a sin and its taught that divorce is also a sin, so if I bail out on the marriage because of a crappy sex life, then people like me are basically screwed because my wife doesn't want sex?
> 
> ...


To me, the answer is yes. We are, may be I should say I am, screwed on Earth in terms of marriage/sex/whatever. But that wasn’t done by God, instead, I screwed myself over by picking the wrong partner. God didn’t force me into this marriage. I in fact chose to walk this path.

Sometimes we tend to blame God for the ****ty thing that happened to us, but in reality we did that to ourselves. It’s the consequences of our action, and it’s the same everyone, believer or not. 

Lets continue with the believe that God is all loving and all powerful, but He is not going to change the mind of the wife for me just because I want sex but she doesn’t. To think God should do that is a pretty selfish way of thinking God should do my will instead of His or my wife’s.

Maybe God is like “Son, I would love for you to be happy and have great sex life with the wife that you choose, but the one you chose with your free will doesn’t want sex. Unless she changes her mind base on her free will, you will have to live with the consequence of your choice. And My teaching in the Bible never changed, and you are told to follow it, from day one, regardless of your choices in life.”

Anyway, that’s how I am thinking, maybe it’s just a way to try to make sense out of this life. I am not trying to say this is the absolute right way, nor am I trying judge others with that. We all answer to God at the end, and will be judged by our believe and as an individual. Wether if my wife want sex will play zero role in that.


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## Uniqueusername (Dec 24, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Quite a few people lately have posted about their spouse (usually a guy) watching porn and masturbating and how it upsets them.
> 
> I can see if they are denying you sex and choosing it instead but what about those that get denied sex and chose to do it as a release?
> 
> ...


Sometimes non-partnered sex, aka masterbation, is the sex of choice. It’s good for you. And it can fill in sex drive discrepancies between you and your spouse. Now, if your partner wants more sex but you’re too busy yanking one out, that’s not cool. As for porn… not the biggest fan but if you can watch it and know it’s completely make believe, tends to objectify women, and carefully pick porn so that you’re doing your best not to contribute to the evils of the industry have at it. Make love not porn (a site where people make their own porn) is probably one of the better places to consume porn.


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## spadey (Dec 27, 2021)

Wife knows that I masturbate almost daily. When we were dating, we'd have phone sex and she loved listening to me jerk off. Wife doesn't care that I watch porn either. It's not like I'm going to ever get with any of those girls I see. It's healthy and should be encouraged (the masturbating, not necessarily the porn watching)


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DLC said:


> To me, the answer is yes. We are, may be I should say I am, screwed on Earth in terms of marriage/sex/whatever. But that wasn’t done by God, instead, I screwed myself over by picking the wrong partner. God didn’t force me into this marriage. I in fact chose to walk this path.
> 
> Sometimes we tend to blame God for the ****ty thing that happened to us, but in reality we did that to ourselves. It’s the consequences of our action, and it’s the same everyone, believer or not.
> 
> ...


Free will would dictate divorce pretty durn quickly.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Free will would dictate divorce pretty durn quickly.


i think that’s what we are seeing in this society now.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DLC said:


> i think that’s what we are seeing in this society now.


I do think that's a major contributor while also thinking other problems are also causing quicker divorces.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

spadey said:


> Wife knows that I masturbate almost daily. When we were dating, we'd have phone sex and she loved listening to me jerk off. Wife doesn't care that I watch porn either. It's not like I'm going to ever get with any of those girls I see. It's healthy and should be encouraged (the masturbating, not necessarily the porn watching)


Plus, we get ideas from porn that we incorporate here. No harm in that


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So if masturbation\watching porn is a sin and its taught that divorce is also a sin, so if I bail out on the marriage because of a crappy sex life, then people like me are basically screwed because my wife doesn't want sex?


Debates that place religion and and sexuality at odds with one another within the context of a sex starved marriage comes across to me like a vegan trying to ask for a raise at their day job as a butcher. 

It is very unlikely that your wife does not want sex, but more so that some attribute(s) associated with sex is unwanted. Most commonly women tend to feel used and eventually get tired of feeling that way. A husband then turns to porn and it only serves to validate that he is very capable and willing to outright use people for his own pleasure. Perhaps he will even pay money for quality porn which makes it feel like prostitution or as if sex can be boiled down to a monetary transaction. The husband perhaps manages to continue having sex with his wife, but refuses to pay her for it perhaps because she is worthless. 

Porn that depicts loving couples performing acts of love for money somehow makes it OK? Does this loving couple have an onlyfans webpage for money? Could you "use" your own marriage in this manner to make money? As a husband are you physically fit enough that people will want to look at you and can you give a money making performance on screen? Are you well endowed enough for the camera to even see anything, cause you got to leave about four to five inches of your penis hanging out during penetration for the camera to see everything! Otherwise it is just hips grinding and no one will pay to see that. 

Good luck with your porn. Can't wait to watch it. I say that just to be positive but in reality I really only like to watch the stuff where there is expensive lingerie and quality camera gear/lighting with couples that are unrealistically erotic in their ability to perform on camera as if it is completely natural. If you paid me, to be honest, I probably would not watch you and your wife. Sounds like she is not into it and I am not a fan of watching people that feel used and just do it for the money. It is always so obvious! Kind of sad. 

Badsanta


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

badsanta said:


> Debates that place religion and and sexuality at odds with one another within the context of a sex starved marriage comes across to me like a vegan trying to ask for a raise at their day job as a butcher.
> 
> It is very unlikely that your wife does not want sex, but more so that some attribute(s) associated with sex is unwanted. Most commonly women tend to feel used and eventually get tired of feeling that way. A husband then turns to porn and it only serves to validate that he is very capable and willing to outright use people for his own pleasure. Perhaps he will even pay money for quality porn which makes it feel like prostitution or as if sex can be boiled down to a monetary transaction. The husband perhaps manages to continue having sex with his wife, but refuses to pay her for it perhaps because she is worthless.
> 
> ...


I have no idea where you got that reply. My reply post was in response to Catholicdad and his indication that porn watching is a sin and since divorce is a sin, no matter what I do, I am desitned for damnation.

I think you missed my sarcasm in my reply altogether.

And where did you read I said I was making porn???


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I have no idea where you got that reply. My reply post was in response to Catholicdad and his indication that porn watching is a sin and since divorce is a sin, no matter what I do, I am desitned for damnation.
> 
> I think you missed my sarcasm in my reply altogether.
> 
> And where did you read I said I was making porn???


I have a rather dark sense of humor. Glad you could laugh at my post. We all give @CatholicDad a tough time, but take a moment to try and appreciate his crusade from a different point of view...

Imagine that you and your wife needed extra income and decided to make porn as a result. You have modest success, but it proves to be challenging as the market is saturated with others doing the same thing. Many of your paying viewers start making custom requests that put you in an uncomfortable scenario, but you subject yourself to that for the extra income. 

Stop for a moment and really try and wrap your mind around that and envision one of your paying viewers claiming that the porn you make is more ethical to consume because you and your wife are a loving couple performing loving acts for others to view. Is it really that different from prostitution? Wouldn't that be the same as selling sexual voyeurship of your marriage for money? From that perspective is it OK, or do you find yourself agreeing with Catholicdad that it would likely be harmful to your marriage. 

Perhaps you have stumbled across Lelu Love while watching adult content. I found myself watching an interview or something like that with her and her partner. At one point her male partner said something like, "she is always getting requests for one-on-one online sessions with fans and there are definitely not people out there requesting the same of me." The gesture of that comment was that he definitely does not have to work as hard as a performer for adult content compared to her. Why is that? Why wouldn't the viewers care for both of them as a loving couple? Why do they only want to see just her and are willing to pay for special sessions online with just her? 

Something to think about the next time you search porn and tell yourself that as long as you watch a loving couple that it makes watching porn OK as opposed to watching prostitutes being paid to be filmed performing sexual acts.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

badsanta said:


> I have a rather dark sense of humor. Glad you could laugh at my post. We all give @CatholicDad a tough time, but take a moment to try and appreciate his crusade from a different point of view...
> 
> Imagine that you and your wife needed extra income and decided to make porn as a result. You have modest success, but it proves to be challenging as the market is saturated with others doing the same thing. Many of your paying viewers start making custom requests that put you in an uncomfortable scenario, but you subject yourself to that for the extra income.
> 
> ...


So that brings up an interesting question as indeed some of the porn I have seen is by amateur couples and they brag about the part of being a real couple and having kids etc. I won't mention the site name but its a common web cam site where real couples post and show for cash. I don't pay however as I suppose I am just too cheap 

BUT, is THAT indeed a problem for them? I don't know? Part of me thinks it is as if they have kids what happens one day when one of their kid's friends says "Hey I spank it waching your mom and dad ****" That would be hard to deal with.

But then on the other hand, I have read legitimate stories of where some of these couples make six figures doing this? And I believe it as some of these folks have 10 - 12k viewers on their cams at once! Thats the same attendance of some professional baseball games I have attended!!!

Does that make it right? I'm not sure but is that them being exploited? I would say not as its their choice and they certainly are not complaining about that kind of money for just a few hours "work" each day.

So while I totally admit porn has exploited both women (and men) I wouldn't say that all porn is indeed bad if it benefits that person. And the other apsect related to it is the posing nude or releasing nude photots online. It seems like everyday some celebrity (especially older ones) is trying to recapture their audience by posting semi-nude or nude pics on one of their social media sites. Sure thats not explicit but it still works the "erotic" nerve to make money and generate income at the expense of lust.

And I still ponder my original question....if porn is a sin and if divorce is a sin, am I indeed in trouble for either watching porn OR getting divorced? Am I destined by my faith to stay in a marriage that may not have as much sex as I want, yet I cannot leave (nor self-pleasure) for fear of almighty damnation. All rhetorical of course and this is my Catholic school view of all those years returning But if I follow any such doctrine exactly, I am thus forced to stay in the marriage and keeps my hands off myself so as to ensure a successful afterlife


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

badsanta said:


> I have a rather dark sense of humor. Glad you could laugh at my post. We all give @CatholicDad a tough time, but take a moment to try and appreciate his crusade from a different point of view...
> 
> Imagine that you and your wife needed extra income and decided to make porn as a result. You have modest success, but it proves to be challenging as the market is saturated with others doing the same thing. Many of your paying viewers start making custom requests that put you in an uncomfortable scenario, but you subject yourself to that for the extra income.
> 
> ...


All good points in the mix.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So while I totally admit porn has exploited both women (and men) I wouldn't say that all porn is indeed bad if it benefits that person. And the other apsect related to it is the posing nude or releasing nude photots online. It seems like everyday some celebrity (especially older ones) is trying to recapture their audience by posting semi-nude or nude pics on one of their social media sites. Sure thats not explicit but it still works the "erotic" nerve to make money and generate income at the expense of lust.


Not to mention OnlyFans or even IG. Hard to call them victims when they literally sign up for it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My favorite masturbation song!






With each yank, I perspire
I shoot my load, ever higher
I won't even mind if I end up blind
I love to choke my chicken with my hand


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Look at it this way. If religion didn't tell you spanking it was bad, how would you know? It's not like stealing or murder. Imagine you are a young guy, it's Saturday and you can't stop thinking about the Spanish weather girl. You can't get your mind off of sex! So you start going to town on yourself. 

Afterwards something interesting happens. It's like a fog is lifted. Your mind is clear, you feel focused. You go on to have a productive day. 

Now imagine some putz coming along and saying you're going to suffer for eternity for what you just did. You'd tell him to piss off.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I have no idea where you got that reply. My reply post was in response to Catholicdad and his indication that porn watching is a sin and since divorce is a sin, no matter what I do, I am desitned for damnation.
> 
> I think you missed my sarcasm in my reply altogether.
> 
> And where did you read I said I was making porn???


For what it’s worth- the Catholic Church is hardcore in the defense of marriage however annulments/divorce are granted especially when one member clearly doesn’t want to be married. divorce does not automatically mean damnation- I know many good Catholics that are divorced. Don’t you think masturbation/porn could be just prolonging an unhealthy marriage?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> For what it’s worth- the Catholic Church is hardcore in the defense of marriage however annulments/divorce are granted especially when one member clearly doesn’t want to be married. divorce does not automatically mean damnation- I know many good Catholics that are divorced. Don’t you think masturbation/porn could be just prolonging an unhealthy marriage?


Yep I know. I'm Cathloic and I'm divorced. 

And no as I truly believe even those who are happily married with a good sex life masturbate. Which leads to even more questions....is it wrong if you watch porn with your spouse and both consent?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yep I know. I'm Cathloic and I'm divorced.
> 
> And no as I truly believe even those who are happily married with a good sex life masturbate. Which leads to even more questions....is it wrong if you watch porn with your spouse and both consent?


I know from practical experience that a man can lead a pretty happy life without porn and masturbation. I would think all pornography viewing is sinful based on 10 commandments- not to commit adultery and Jesus adding that looking with lust at another is adultery of the heart. Have you ever mentioned any of this to a priest in confession?

Wouldn’t most men willingly give up porn and masturbation just to please God? Jesus died for us… least we can do is lay off the porn.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’ll add that it doesn’t matter what sins you’ve committed in the past. These can be forgiven in confession. Maria Goretti’s murderer might be named a saint someday and could become the patron saint of porn addicts. Go read about her and him.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> My favorite masturbation song!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reminds me of this cross dressing tune....


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

When life gets you down, you sometimes have to take matters into your own hands and *pull yourself *back up.😅


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I know from practical experience that a man can lead a pretty happy life without porn and masturbation. I would think all pornography viewing is sinful based on 10 commandments- not to commit adultery and Jesus adding that looking with lust at another is adultery of the heart. Have you ever mentioned any of this to a priest in confession?
> 
> Wouldn’t most men willingly give up porn and masturbation just to please God? Jesus died for us… least we can do is lay off the porn.


Let's start with 100% of men giving up lying, stealing, murder, domestic violence willful destruction of property, poaching, sloth, rape, terrorism, looting, working at cnn, dishonesty in politics, managerial misconduct, political narcissism, narcissism in general.

That's all I could think of in 5 seconds.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's all I could think of in 5 seconds.


You forgot to mention men should stop wearing mixed fabrics. Since that's also big no-no, according to the Bible.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@FloridaGuy1 I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I mean if it was (is?) good enough for the Catholic Church to profit from the sale of pornography, you really shouldn't feel too bad about enjoying masturbation and pornography as the urge strikes you.

*Revealed: publisher owned by the Catholic Church sells pornography* - The Independent

*The Catholic Church Has Been Quietly Selling Porn In Germany* - Jezebel

*Catholic publisher sells pornography* - Union of Catholic Asian News

*German bishops to quickly sell shares in porn publisher *- Catholic News Agency


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## atourist (Dec 31, 2021)

Oh dear. So many posts on here saying that masturbation is a terrible thing.

But throughout our (very happy 34-year) marriage, it has been a key element in our sex, and we have enjoyed it immensely (and still do) in various forms. It is often a shared pleasure, but on those days when my wife is not up for sex herself, I either enjoy it alone, helped by porn (with her complete acceptance), or she helps me out; it's just another of the sweet things we do for each other.

If more people saw masturbation as a blessing instead of a sin, there would be a lot more happy people around.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

atourist said:


> If more people saw masturbation as a blessing instead of a sin, there would be a lot more happy people around.


If more people are happy, then it would be harder for religions to sell solutions to problems that they invent to sell solutions.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> These verses seem very clear. Isn’t masturbation the same thing as “sensuality” and “desire of the flesh”?
> 
> *Galatians 5:19-21 *
> Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
> ...


Well having sex is a desire of the flesh so maybe we need to stop that as well? 
I guess we can make verses fit what we want to, but I see nothing said by God that says masturbation is a sin.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

atourist said:


> Oh dear. So many posts on here saying that masturbation is a terrible thing.
> 
> But throughout our (very happy 34-year) marriage, it has been a key element in our sex, and we have enjoyed it immensely (and still do) in various forms. It is often a shared pleasure, but on those days when my wife is not up for sex herself, I either enjoy it alone, helped by porn (with her complete acceptance), or she helps me out; it's just another of the sweet things we do for each other.
> 
> If more people saw masturbation as a blessing instead of a sin, there would be a lot more happy people around.


I think it has its place but porn for us is a complete no no. 
I respect my husband far too much to bring others into our marriage through porn.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Quite a few people lately have posted about their spouse (usually a guy) watching porn and masturbating and how it upsets them.
> 
> I can see if they are denying you sex and choosing it instead but what about those that get denied sex and chose to do it as a release?
> 
> ...


I have no problems with masturbation in certain situations at all. Porn is a different thing. You can do one without the other.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> OK so a little bit of thread drift from my original post but that's OK, its all good.
> 
> As a follow up, I saw a few mention the fakeness of porn with altered bodies and abuse of those in it and such. While I do agree that bad things happen from some aspects of porn, is it any different if one watches porn made by amateur couples of say a husband and wife who are both willing participants and aren't in it for anything more than being exhibitionists? Just curious if this changes the perception of porn for some?


It's still porn. It's still bringing others into your mind and your marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

C.C. says ... said:


> Oh wow. I came in here to read some good masturbation stories. How did the Bible quotes come about? Oh ok. I see how. Hey ... if God hadn’t wanted me to masturbate, why’d he make me so damned sexy.


Well he also gives us wise advise to live by.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Well having sex is a desire of the flesh so maybe we need to stop that as well?
> I guess we can make verses fit what we want to, but I see nothing said by God that says masturbation is a sin.


My understanding of Catholic sexual theology is that sex that is not with the purpose of procreation with marriage is not really a good thing, so perhaps that isn't as much of a gotcha as you think.

Whether we like it or not, there is plenty of evidence that the early church believed that masturbation was sinful, this is where all ancient denominations derive this view from. To say there is "nothing in what God said" to support this view is a bit arrogant to be honest. You are of course free to interpret scripture as you like, but that is different to denial of other interpretations, which I believe your statement is. I can clearly see why the Catholic church can justify its position based on interpretation of scripture even if I disagree with it.


My church takes a typical fence sitting stance on masturbation. My view is that it is a natural form of sexual exploration but that it can be sinful if coupled to addictive behaviours or neglect of one's spouse.


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## ColdSexyFeet (Nov 28, 2021)

I have been dealing with this for quite awhile now and I do still honestly believe that it is okay and natural. My SO and I actually did watch together and take care of ourselves in the same bed ( as a sort of foreplay) it can be exciting and sexual for the both of you it doesn't have to always be a single handed problem pun intended


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> My understanding of Catholic sexual theology is that sex that is not with the purpose of procreation with marriage is not really a good thing, so perhaps that isn't as much of a gotcha as you think.
> 
> Whether we like it or not, there is plenty of evidence that the early church believed that masturbation was sinful, this is where all ancient denominations derive this view from. To say there is "nothing in what God said" to support this view is a bit arrogant to be honest. You are of course free to interpret scripture as you like, but that is different to denial of other interpretations, which I believe your statement is. I can clearly see why the Catholic church can justify its position based on interpretation of scripture even if I disagree with it.
> 
> ...


Some early churches supported torture until one admitted whatever the topic of the moment was. So to use generic early churches as a measuring stick may not be the best.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> And I still ponder my original question....if porn is a sin and if divorce is a sin, am I indeed in trouble for either watching porn OR getting divorced?


...coming back to the debate on porn and it being harmful to those that produce it (possible human trafficking or it being a form of prostitution), you know what... There is A LOT of what I am going to call "robo porn" on the internet these days. Just like those phone calls that imitate a real person that uses AI to try and respond intelligently to your responses, porn these days is now doing a lot of that. As in it is all computer generated.

I am pretty sure all the dudes here reading have clicked on a porn thumbnail and gotten about 30 seconds into viewing a scene before realizing that no humans were involved in making the video content on your screen!

So that adds a twist to the ethics of porn. Is it OK to watch porn created by computers using virtual performers.

Not only was no one hurt by creating this content, but odds are some engineering student gained a wealth of knowledge creating it and will be way more capable at problem solving for a future job!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

AGoodFlogging said:


> My understanding of Catholic sexual theology is that sex that is not with the purpose of procreation with marriage is not really a good thing, so perhaps that isn't as much of a gotcha as you think.
> 
> Whether we like it or not, there is plenty of evidence that the early church believed that masturbation was sinful, this is where all ancient denominations derive this view from. To say there is "nothing in what God said" to support this view is a bit arrogant to be honest. You are of course free to interpret scripture as you like, but that is different to denial of other interpretations, which I believe your statement is. I can clearly see why the Catholic church can justify its position based on interpretation of scripture even if I disagree with it.
> 
> ...


I have never seen anything in the Bible about it so I am not going to condemn something that God doesn't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

badsanta said:


> ...coming back to the debate on porn and it being harmful to those that produce it (possible human trafficking or it being a form of prostitution), you know what... There is A LOT of what I am going to call "robo porn" on the internet these days. Just like those phone calls that imitate a real person that uses AI to try and respond intelligently to your responses, porn these days is now doing a lot of that. As in it is all computer generated.
> 
> I am pretty sure all the dudes here reading have clicked on a porn thumbnail and gotten about 30 seconds into viewing a scene before realizing that no humans were involved in making the video content on your screen!
> 
> ...


For me anything that takes away from your partner is unwise.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> For me anything that takes away from your partner is unwise.


I can't disagree with that statement but maybe its OK for single people?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> For me anything that takes away from your partner is unwise.


In my opinion porn is often made into the scapegoat for other problems (shame, low self confidence, conflict avoidance, and so on...) that really take away from a partner. Therefor porn obfuscates relationship issues and when porn is eliminated there is only a false sense of accomplishment until eventually the real issues bubble back to the surface right around the same time porn use relapses. 

Badsanta


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

And I'll be honest, porn answers my curiousity for things I will likely never experience in real life (a threesome with two women, poolside orgy, etc). Kind of like guys that watch football, right?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

badsanta said:


> ...coming back to the debate on porn and it being harmful to those that produce it (possible human trafficking or it being a form of prostitution), you know what... There is A LOT of what I am going to call "robo porn" on the internet these days. Just like those phone calls that imitate a real person that uses AI to try and respond intelligently to your responses, porn these days is now doing a lot of that. As in it is all computer generated.
> 
> I am pretty sure all the dudes here reading have clicked on a porn thumbnail and gotten about 30 seconds into viewing a scene before realizing that no humans were involved in making the video content on your screen!
> 
> ...


This does seem to cover both sides of the equation. Bits and pixels can't be exploited like people, so that removes the moral and ethical issues involved in the production. On the consumer side you are no longer bringing other "people" into your relationship. Certainly no more than reading an explicit romance novel. One possible issue I can think of is your thoughts and fantasies are about "someone" else, so there are some that will still have an issue with it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> For me anything that takes away from your partner is unwise.


What if you are single, would CG porn be okay? What if you are married and it doesn't take away anything from your partner?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What if you are single, would CG porn be okay? What if you are married and it doesn't take away anything from your partner?


Probably on par with a trashy romance novel. When women read those it creates an unrealistic scenario of impossible romance that a partner in real life can't likely recreate. Then they become resentful that us husbands never reveal that we are the secret heir to a fortune and that we own a castle with enchanted servants.

Just like us husbands get frustrated that our wives don't have insatiable desire to fulfill our fantasies exactly when we are in the mood to have them fulfilled.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Wow, 8 pages tells me everyone’s conscience is bothering them a bit. I may live with more pent up frustration than others… but my conscience is clean.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> Wow, 8 pages tells me everyone’s conscience is bothering them a bit. I may live with more pent up frustration than others… but my conscience is clean.


Well not really bothering me. I started the post last year and have been following it since. And I have nothing better to do in the evenings (aside from surfing porn) so I keep posting in it when others do.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well not really bothering me. I started the post last year and have been following it since. And I have nothing better to do in the evenings (aside from surfing porn) so I keep posting in it when others do.


So if I challenge you to endless arguments you might break free (from porn)?

Florida sucks and is overrated. I hate Disneyland- it sucks too.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> So if I challenge you to endless arguments you might break free (from porn)?
> 
> Florida sucks and is overrated. I hate Disneyland- it sucks too.


Sure....except Disneyland is in California not Florida....Its Disney World


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What if you are single, would CG porn be okay? What if you are married and it doesn't take away anything from your partner?


It would take away your focus from your partner though. 
If you are single it's your decision in the end. I wouldn't use it personally but the majority would think it was ok I expect.


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## Deguello (Apr 3, 2015)

Hiner112 said:


> Kind of ironic. Some people have had their significant others tell them not to masturbate and my ex told me that was the purpose of my right hand (IE to take care of the things she didn't want to).
> 
> It seems to me that either you can be glad to participate in sexual activities with your SO or you can be glad that they're taking care of it themselves since you don't want to. I'm not sure refusing sex and not "allowing" your SO to masturbate is or is not abuse but it sure doesn't make a ton of sense.
> 
> If masturbation replaces your willing SO or causes performance issues, then there's a problem and probably a serious one.


If I don't take care of my self,after 4 days maybe 5 I am no fun to be around.she knows and does not care


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## kh4OffRoad (9 mo ago)

happiness27 said:


> I've been masturbating since I was 10 and even then as a church-going girl, I was clear enough in the head to hear that "God made everything" and be able to apply it to the pleasure of orgasm. It wasn't "dirty" - I was innocent.
> 
> Now...if you want to get into "sin" - then going down the path of masturbating to a woman who is not yours, especially one you know who is not aware of your sexual attraction to her - then you are going to start getting into a territory that might not be good. A sin = "to miss the mark" - meaning probably not a path you want to take because somebody down the road could get hurt with that kind of thinking and lead to a behavior that you don't want.
> 
> ...


Wow, of all the things I have learned on here: This one really stands out! Are you saying you two had and still have a healthy relationship with m*sterbation? No dumb porn but still understand when your or your spouse isn’t available you still take care of yourself without any shame or guilt?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

kh4OffRoad said:


> Wow, of all the things I have learned on here: This one really stands out! Are you saying you two had and still have a healthy relationship with m*sterbation? No dumb porn but still understand when your or your spouse isn’t available you still take care of yourself without any shame or guilt?


Are you saying two persons in a relationship aren't supposed to masturbate ever? 
And masturbation is evil? Wtf?

That's a little, let's just say, off.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I just noticed, is this a zombie thread?


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## kh4OffRoad (9 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Are you saying two persons in a relationship aren't supposed to masturbate ever?
> And masturbation is evil? Wtf?
> 
> That's a little, let's just say, off.


No, I think we all assume it happens, just not something that is really discussed. I didn’t mention nor do I think it is evil. I was more intrigued about how open they were and how healthy there view/ relationship to it is.


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## Seems Like Yesterday (9 mo ago)

My feeling is masturbation can neither be discussed to a concenus or qualified to a concenus by the general public of when right or wrong ever and will remain a ******** and black hole for ever!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I just noticed, is this a zombie thread?


If I post in it as it was MY thread, does that keep it from being Zombified and that Zombie Cat showing up? Even though he is kinda cool!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> If I post in it as it was MY thread, does that keep it from being Zombified and that Zombie Cat showing up? Even though he is kinda cool!


I would think that would keep it open 👍


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I would think that would keep it open 👍


Good because I wanted this post to come around again and not rub anyone the wrong way.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Good because I wanted this post to come around again and not rub anyone the wrong way.


I see what you did there. I needed a laugh today, nicely done.


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## jenny_1 (7 mo ago)

I know a lady who got upset because her husband preferred to eat out instead of enjoying her home cooking. Every marriage has petty disagreements, and whether it's about food or masturbation, just deal with it, preferably by talking.


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## Philip P. (Nov 11, 2019)

jenny_1 said:


> I know a lady who got upset because her husband preferred to eat out instead of enjoying her home cooking. Every marriage has petty disagreements, and whether it's about food or masturbation, just deal with it, preferably by talking.


I have been following this thread and I totally agree with your comment about talking it out. The truth is that I’m a lucky guy. For a person who’s bald, over 50 and small in stature, my wife is still very attractive and supportive. She’s even been an asset to my career. The one thing she asked of me years ago when we talked it over was for me to not masturbate. I agreed and we still have active intimacy.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Philip P. said:


> I have been following this thread and I totally agree with your comment about talking it out. The truth is that I’m a lucky guy. For a person who’s bald, over 50 and small in stature, my wife is still very attractive and supportive. She’s even been an asset to my career. The one thing she asked of me years ago when we talked it over was for me to not masturbate. I agreed and we still have active intimacy.


Hmmmm, intimacy in place of masturbation? Yeah, I would take that offer too (I think many guys would!)


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## Philip P. (Nov 11, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Hmmmm, intimacy in place of masturbation? Yeah, I would take that offer too (I think many guys would!)


We’ve always enjoyed an intimate relationship. We still have a date night a few times a month to keep it interesting. Guys still check my wife out sometimes. We find it amusing but they could think it’s funny even today to see a tall woman with brunette hair walk into a place or leave with a shorter bald guy wearing glasses. I definitely wouldn’t resort to masturbation.


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## DarrenLondon (6 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Hmmmm, intimacy in place of masturbation? Yeah, I would take that offer too (I think many guys would!)


Or have both, if you can?  I mean I definitely wanked quite a bit (ok, a lot) when feeling horny while we were still living apart, fairly sure the missus did too. Didn't stop us having great sex when we stayed at each other's place. And even now it's something I occasionally do when I feel like it. Comes under the header "me time". I enjoy it and would rather have it than not, even if there's a decent amount of "us time" as well.


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