# Ex is out of state with my daughter I'm worries she won't come back



## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Me and my now ex have been having issues for some time, she planned a trip for a month taking my daughter with her. Since she left we have seperated, it has been a long time coming. She has been flip flopping since then saying she won't come back, she is coming back, that our daughter needs a father and she wouldn't keep her from me, etc. She has been answering her phone daily so that I can talk to my daughter (she is 3, there thrilling conversations) and it seemed like we were going to be able to be civil. 

But then the other night I was out and came home to find her car missing from the driveway, came in the house and it appeared to have been robbed. I called the police they instructed me to leave me home and wait for officers in case someone was still there. I did as they asked. When they arrived they cleared the house and asked me back inside and as we looked around and it became apparent that she had sent someone there to retrieve her things. It was only her stuff missing alot of which was decorative and personal effects that a robber wouldn't have taken. 

Today my friend called me from where she currently is and said that she has been saying some crazy things and making absurd accusations. First one being that her friend had a key and did not break in (not true, but the least of my concerns) and that I filed a false police report to get her in trouble. 
Then she claimed that I messed with her car to try and kill her and her daughter.
She also made claims that I threatened to kill another friend of hers who lives where she currently is staying.
That she is terrified and is filing a protection order.
What? 
I don't understand where this all came from, from us being civil to such accusations. I have never raised a hand to her and rarley raise my voice at her. I love my daughter more than life itself and would never do anything to jeopardize her safety. 
She on the other hand has been very emotionally abusive to her maybe even physically, she once duct taped her diaper on her because she wouldn't stop taking it off, when I removed she had a bruise from how tight she put it on.
I should have done something then.

I believe she has a history of drug abuse, all the signs are there and everyone around me has noticed as well.
And she is prescribed medication for mental health issues that she is currently not taking. 

I know that I should have done something long ago, I know I should not have allowed her to take her out of state especially that long

I plan to go to the courthouse tomorrow to file for emergency custody. Any thoughts?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Do you have a custody order from your divorce ?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Talk to a lawyer ASAP.

When the person went into your home, did they cause any damage to the door, or a window, or anything? Make sure you have photos of the damage.

See a lawyer and have them put in an order for your daughter to be returned to wher eyou live. Your wife cannot unilaterally move your daughter out of state.

Her accusations of abuse don’t hold water because she has never called the police on you. It will sound like she’s just making accusations t help her divorce case.

But you need a lawyer ASAP.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jpp3 said:


> She has been saying some crazy things and making absurd accusations.... she claimed that I messed with her car to try and kill her and her daughter. She also made claims that I threatened to kill another friend of hers who lives where she currently is staying. That she is terrified and is filing a protection order. What?


Likewise, my BPDer exW called the police and had me arrested on the bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. Because I was arrested early on Saturday morning, I was in jail for nearly 3 full days before I could see a judge late on Monday afternoon. 

By that time, my exW had obtain a R/O (which courts hand out like candy to children) preventing me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce in this State). BPDers are notorious for having their abused spouses arrested on false charges. And, when they are fighting for child custody, they are especially brutal. What makes them so believable to the police is that BPDers typically BELIEVE the outrageous accusations coming out of their mouths.



> I don't understand where this all came from, from us being civil to such accusations.


Yes, you do understand it. You just don't want to believe it. You understood it perfectly well when we first discussed BPD symptoms this past January. And you understood it when we discussed it again in February. The problem is that the emotional, intuitive, childlike part of your mind is lagging many months behind the logical, intellectual part of your mind. 

That lag between your gut-level feelings of what is true and your adult intellectual understanding of what is true is perfectly normal. It may take you another six months to close that gap -- so don't beat yourself up about it. Developing an intellectual understanding of your fiance's dysfunctional behavior is the EASY part. What is HARD is bringing your intuitive perceptions into alignment with your intellectual perceptions. It takes time to convert knowledge into wisdom.



> I plan to go to the courthouse tomorrow to file for emergency custody. Any thoughts?


Tomorrow is not soon enough. You have no idea how vicious and pernicious your fiance is capable of becoming if she exhibits strong BPD traits. As I discussed with you two months ago, a BPDer's inability to regulate emotions results in serious distortions in how she perceives your intentions and motivations. 

When young children are at stake, there is a good chance she will perceive you to be Hitler incarnate and will treat you accordingly. Yet, because a BPDer is unstable, you may find her perceiving of you as "all black" for months and then instantly flipping to "all white" -- and then, just as quickly, back to "all black." 

Hence, if she is a BPDer, it is important to hire a very tough family lawyer and immediately take the strongest position recommended by that lawyer. Do not yield on anything you have a legal right to insist on. With BPDers, any concessions you make will buy you NOTHING. It is impossible, with BPDers, to build up a store of good will on which to draw later. Three days from now, a BPDer's perception of reality (and of what she agreed to three days earlier) will be dictated by how she is feeling _at that very moment in time_. Thus, for your child's welfare, do not make any unnecessary concessions.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

I just read through your other threads @Jpp3

You never really said in your other post/thread about the custody agreement, as to whether it was in writing. There wasn't any mention of attorneys or judges, so I'm going to bet the answer's no. I don't know what state you live in, but in mine, if that's the case, you could kiss your daughter goodbye. The mother is presumed to have sole custody (here) until you get an order to establish your rights, especially if you were never married, which appears to be the case. This would be a classic case of parental kidnapping... except in this case it's not, because the kid's hers and your rights haven't been established.

But you had to know she would do this. She's crazy, and you knew it. And you let her move out of state with your kid for a month. Letting her establish that if you wanted something done about it, you'd have done so much sooner...

You need an attorney. That's my thought. And I'd be saying some Hail Mary's because you're likely going to be throwing a lot of them starting tomorrow.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

I live in Arizona. I got the dates mixed up, she was actually due back in town today. I asked her last week for her flight info she told me the 26th, but I found a paper with with her flight info written down. I went to the airport, and they did not get off it.

I called her got no answer and then she texted me to check my email. It was a long email basically saying she's not coming back, and all of the things I previously mentioned. I did not reply and got ahold of a lawyer. She advised that my first step is to file for emergency custody. To answer your question, I do not have a court order however I am her paternal father on her birth certificate. She said that she cannot do that and that she will be required to come back to Arizona for custody hearing.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Get your lawyer to file a writ that will give your W only 10 days to appear back in your court of jurisdiction with your daughter in hand.

Under normal conditions, custodial spouses must have the express permission of the court to leave the state or country with a child while custody litigation is in any way pending! Her doing so, not only gets her, but also her attorney of record into hot water with the court with the marked jailable charge of contempt of court!*


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Jpp3 said:


> I live in Arizona. I got the dates mixed up, she was actually due back in town today. I asked her last week for her flight info she told me the 26th, but I found a paper with with her flight info written down. I went to the airport, and they did not get off it.
> 
> I called her got no answer and then she texted me to check my email. It was a long email basically saying she's not coming back, and all of the things I previously mentioned. I did not reply and got ahold of a lawyer. She advised that my first step is to file for emergency custody. To answer your question, I do not have a court order however I am her paternal father on her birth certificate. *She said that she cannot do that and that she will be required to come back to Arizona for custody hearing.*


That's good. Like I said, here things work different. If you can file and fight in your own jurisdiction you've got a good shot. Good luck man. Did you file for emergency custody already? 

Here's the deal now... you've tried to work things out peaceably and you've seen how your X handled it: she kidnapped your daughter. Like @Uptown mentioned, there is no goodwill to be had by making offers with her, or negotiating or bargaining. Turn the screws, and take everything your attorney thinks you can. Go for full / primary custody. If your attorney thinks you can, shoot for supervised visitations only for the X. You can always allow more visitations than the court orders later if you want.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

I have not filed yet I am on my way to the court now to file.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Went to court this morning. It went well. I filed for emergency custody and saw the judge, unfortunately he denied the emergency custody petition. He did however schedule a temporary custody hearing for the 10th. This will at the very least bring her back to the state. If she does not return back I will receive temporary sole custody. If she still does not come back after that, she will be held in contempt of court and I will most likely end up with sole custody period. Worst case scenario, she does come back and I'm granted 50/50 custody, and the likely hood of me getting custodial custody looks pretty good. She is unemployed and has no stable home here. I do not see a judge allowing her to leave the state with her. 
While it sucks that I don't have my Daughter here with me now, I am feeling pretty optimistic about the future.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Document that she has prior drug abuse,broke into you house or had a friend do it. 
Anything you can think of.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

never trust your EX ever again. 
Your lawyer should be able to Ask the court to demand psychological tests on her. Keep evidence of the visitation plans in which SHE SAID she would return with your daughter. Letters, email, etc. Keep ALL paper work.

You are to KEEP a VAR on your person at all times when interacting with that crazy woman (if legal in that state). You can also use a VAR to record voice calls by placing it on your screen and facing the MIC at the speaker, then hold phone to your face and talk like normal. Usually, phone recorders make a BEEP noise so that other parties are aware they are being recorded.

I've done this. Good luck in getting full custody. Her mental instability is a problem. By all means there are people who are medicated and do fine as parents... then there are some that do not.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jpp3 said:


> Went to court this morning. It went well. I filed for emergency custody and saw the judge, unfortunately he denied the emergency custody petition. He did however schedule a temporary custody hearing for the 10th. This will at the very least bring her back to the state. If she does not return back I will receive temporary sole custody. If she still does not come back after that, she will be held in contempt of court and I will most likely end up with sole custody period. Worst case scenario, she does come back and I'm granted 50/50 custody, and the likely hood of me getting custodial custody looks pretty good. She is unemployed and has no stable home here. I do not see a judge allowing her to leave the state with her.
> While it sucks that I don't have my Daughter here with me now, I am feeling pretty optimistic about the future.


Excellent. You clearly did the right thing.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Jpp3 said:


> Went to court this morning. It went well. I filed for emergency custody and saw the judge, unfortunately he denied the emergency custody petition. He did however schedule a temporary custody hearing for the 10th. This will at the very least bring her back to the state. If she does not return back I will receive temporary sole custody. If she still does not come back after that, she will be held in contempt of court and I will most likely end up with sole custody period. Worst case scenario, she does come back and I'm granted 50/50 custody, and the likely hood of me getting custodial custody looks pretty good. She is unemployed and has no stable home here. I do not see a judge allowing her to leave the state with her.
> While it sucks that I don't have my Daughter here with me now, I am feeling pretty optimistic about the future.


I'm glad it went okay Jpp3. I hope the hearing on the 10th goes well. Did the judge say why he wouldn't grant emergency custody, and why he thought waiting 2 weeks was appropriate when your daughter has been kidnapped?


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Because he didnt feel she was immediate danger and because he wanted to give her a chance to defend herself. Because there is not current custody aggreement and we were never married even though i am the paternal father i dont have custody rights until established by the court so it is not considered kidnapping.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

I dont have an actual attorney i just have an attorney friend advising me. Unfortunately she is unable to take cases outside of her firm and i cannot afford her or really any lawyer for that matter.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Im have my emergency court hearing on the 10th. I am growing inpatient. I just want to see my daughter. I miss her so much it hurts. This has just been an exhausting roller coaster of hurt and sad, to angry, to confident, to being taken down a peg, to be built back up and then the hurt comes back.

To be clear I am DONE with her! I gave her one last chance to come back on her own before the papers were are served in the next day or two. I said if she did I would be reasonable in a custody agreement. She declined. She wants to do what she wants to do and doesnt care who she hurts in the process, including our daughter.

She truly beleives that I will just roll over amd that she is going to start a new life for herself in NJ. She left her facebook open on my computer and i found messages with a whole lot of nudes shes been sending to this man out there. Also included in these messages is the talk of bringing over other women to watch her with for his pleasure. He is a 75 yo man with alot of money. Not name calling here she is being the exact definition of a *****. While my daughter is being passed from baby sitter to baby sitter.

I cannot wait for her to receive the papers. And then watch as she comes back here, she has burned all her bridges and will try to come crawling back to me when she realizes she ****ed up. And i will throw the printed papers of her conveesations in her face and tell her to get the **** out.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Jpp3 said:


> *I dont have an actual attorney i just have an attorney friend advising me*. Unfortunately she is unable to take cases outside of her firm and i cannot afford her or really any lawyer for that matter.



You have to get one. 

Given what has transpired so far, I suspect you are in for the fight of your life. This is your daughter. You cannot afford to have some friend doing a little part time side advice. You could lose your daughter. 

What are you going to do if she starts throwing false accusations, which I think is quite likely? Accusing you of abusing her, your daughter, whatever.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Jpp3 said:


> Im have my emergency court hearing on the 10th. I am growing inpatient. I just want to see my daughter. I miss her so much it hurts. This has just been an exhausting roller coaster of hurt and sad, to angry, to confident, to being taken down a peg, to be built back up and then the hurt comes back.
> 
> To be clear I am DONE with her! I gave her one last chance to come back on her own before the papers were are served in the next day or two. I said if she did I would be reasonable in a custody agreement. She declined. She wants to do what she wants to do and doesnt care who she hurts in the process, including our daughter.
> 
> ...


It's not going to work out like in your fantasy. She's going to try to roast you alive with false accusations, and she may get sleazy accomplices to perjure themselves to back up her story. 

I think you don't really realize what you are in for.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't know your financial situation but I urge you to borrow beg and anything else you have to do to afford a lawyer. Without being married you have zero rights. Same as my state. Here, without an attorney you have zero chance at getting anything. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Trust me i know i need a lawyer, i know this is my daughter at stake i just dont have any options. I dont have great credit and cant get a loan or even a credit card a can take out a cash advance against, i dont have anybody i can borrow from, i checked with pro bono lawyers there is only one that doesnt family law in my county they are not taking apllications until after the hearing. I started a go fund me to raise money for an attorney that i cant put on my facebook but put out to all my family and MY friends, no mutual friends but have only raised $75, ive been trying to sell anything i can to raise funds i just dont know what else i can do short of robbing a bank.

I know she will be throwing accusations left and right that i will have to defend against and am doing everything i can to prepare for them. I am documenting everything. Hard as it is i am biting my tongue so i dont say anything that can implicate me.

While i know that in an argument between a group of people i have the strongest case i have no idea what the law says. I have a bunch of evidence but alot of it my not be admissable. All of it could get thrown out for all i know. I have a cousin in NJ who is a lawyer and he said anything he can do from there he will but there is only so much he can do. I want to be optimistic, and at times i am, but then like you are all saying i know that despite everything this could all swing the other way based on accusations and i realize that i am indeed about to partake in the fight of my life. And it scares the **** out of me! Again rollercoaster, sad, angry, motivated, discouragment, fear. All while im starting a new job and trying to have some kind of social interactions with friends so i dont lose it. I am ready to fight tooth and nail for my daughter but i also feel like crawling under a rock.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Jpp3 said:


> Me and my now ex have been having issues for some time, she planned a trip for a month taking my daughter with her. Since she left we have seperated, it has been a long time coming. She has been flip flopping since then saying she won't come back, she is coming back, that our daughter needs a father and she wouldn't keep her from me, etc. She has been answering her phone daily so that I can talk to my daughter (she is 3, there thrilling conversations) and it seemed like we were going to be able to be civil.
> 
> But then the other night I was out and came home to find her car missing from the driveway, came in the house and it appeared to have been robbed. I called the police they instructed me to leave me home and wait for officers in case someone was still there. I did as they asked. When they arrived they cleared the house and asked me back inside and as we looked around and it became apparent that she had sent someone there to retrieve her things. It was only her stuff missing alot of which was decorative and personal effects that a robber wouldn't have taken.
> 
> ...


*You are doing the right thing! That child of yours needs to be with you ~ not her! 

Best of luck in your legal filings!*


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

Jpp3 said:


> Trust me i know i need a lawyer, i know this is my daughter at stake i just dont have any options. I dont have great credit and cant get a loan or even a credit card a can take out a cash advance against, i dont have anybody i can borrow from, i checked with pro bono lawyers there is only one that doesnt family law in my county they are not taking apllications until after the hearing. I started a go fund me to raise money for an attorney that i cant put on my facebook but put out to all my family and MY friends, no mutual friends but have only raised $75, ive been trying to sell anything i can to raise funds i just dont know what else i can do short of robbing a bank.
> 
> I know she will be throwing accusations left and right that i will have to defend against and am doing everything i can to prepare for them. I am documenting everything. Hard as it is i am biting my tongue so i dont say anything that can implicate me.
> 
> While i know that in an argument between a group of people i have the strongest case i have no idea what the law says. I have a bunch of evidence but alot of it my not be admissable. All of it could get thrown out for all i know. I have a cousin in NJ who is a lawyer and he said anything he can do from there he will but there is only so much he can do. I want to be optimistic, and at times i am, but then like you are all saying i know that despite everything this could all swing the other way based on accusations and i realize that i am indeed about to partake in the fight of my life. And it scares the **** out of me! Again rollercoaster, sad, angry, motivated, discouragment, fear. All while im starting a new job and trying to have some kind of social interactions with friends so i dont lose it. I am ready to fight tooth and nail for my daughter but i also feel like crawling under a rock.


Arrange a payment plan with an attorney. Many do this. especially attorneys just starting out. You cannot be without an attorney. You ex is going to lie and go scorched earth on you. Your daughter's life depends on you.

IamSomebody


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's an article about ways you can get legal help when you don't have money: Getting Legal Help When You Can't Afford a Lawyer - Lawyers.com

And here's another one about six tips if you need a lawyer but don't have the money: Need a Lawyer but don't Have the Money? Here are Six Tips - Photography Web Marketing Guide

Please do everything you can to get a lawyer. Swallow your pride--your child is worth it.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Jpp3 said:


> Im have my emergency court hearing on the 10th. I am growing inpatient. I just want to see my daughter. I miss her so much it hurts. This has just been an exhausting roller coaster of hurt and sad, to angry, to confident, to being taken down a peg, to be built back up and then the hurt comes back.
> 
> To be clear I am DONE with her! I gave her one last chance to come back on her own before the papers were are served in the next day or two. I said if she did I would be reasonable in a custody agreement. She declined. She wants to do what she wants to do and doesnt care who she hurts in the process, including our daughter.
> 
> ...


You live in AZ, right? So it's not like she went to nearby NM or NV or Cali... She went almost as physically far as she could and stay in the continental US. Damn. 

Dude, I hope you get your kid back. And I feel terrible for you. Just remember, you're not going to a court of law, you are going to a court of equity. I hope your judge doesn't treat you the way so many dads have been treated in court.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Attempts to serve her have so far failed. She must suspect service because she messaged someone and said she i going into hiding. I only have until tomorrow, if she isnt served by then i have to go back to court, to file a request to serve through publication. That also means that the judge will have to schedule a continuance delaying when i will be able to see my daughter.

At this point her and her family have stopped taking my calls to allow me to speak with my daughter.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

She may be trying to block any move you might want to make by filing the protection order. I would want to know if the protection order was actually taken out or not. She sounds like she likes to make threats. Get a lawyer and make sure her taking your daughter as far away as she has is legal.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

She doesn't have an order of protection filed, I have called the courts in all 3 county's where she would have filed one and there is nothing on record for either order of protection or custody. She was trying to scare me off, and slow down any of my efforts. Which is definitely what hiding from the process server, and sheriff, and Certified mail is about. I now have to go file a request for the judge to grant permission to serve her through publication or other alternative methods. Costing more money I dont have.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Jpp3 said:


> She doesn't have an order of protection filed, I have called the courts in all 3 county's where she would have filed one and there is nothing on record for either order of protection or custody. She was trying to scare me off, and slow down any of my efforts. Which is definitely what hiding from the process server, and sheriff, and Certified mail is about. I now have to go file a request for the judge to grant permission to serve her through publication or other alternative methods. Costing more money I dont have.


I usually oppose debt, but if there was ever a time...

Well, this was inevitable. I'm really sorry man. Do you own your home, or do you rent?

Do you have family around where she fled to?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

I'll try to give you any advice I can Jpp3. I've been through this, my own mother and her family kidnapped me as a kid, and fled the state. 

It's not over, but you've got to move fast if you want your daughter back.

ETA: In light about my question of whether you own your home, and then this post, I want to clarify, by "move" I mean "act".


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

I am really struggling today. After getting her served on Friday, she is finally willing to talk to come to an arraignment. However she does not want to hear anything I put on the table and only wants me to agree to her terms. She wants me to take her in the summers and allow her to stay in NJ. Or she wants me to move to sell my home and move to NJ. I understand that after our breakup she doesn't have anything here but why should I be punished for the fact that she has struggled to make friendships and form support here? Why should I be punished for decisions that she made to move here that she now regrets? Despite everything I do feel bad for her current situation, both her parents and sick and dying of cancer, her other daughter lives in NJ and she misses her and I know that must be hard. 

I know she is just trying to get a rise out of me, trying to get me to blow up on her. So I am trying not to communicate with her but she knows how to push my buttons and how to manipulate me. She keeps saying that if we cant come to an agreement that she is going to wind up getting taken away from both of us. She is claiming that I am a sociopath and that because I was sexually abused as child that she is concerned I will turn into an abuser. This on top of the claims that I tampered with her car to try and have her killed. And she is going around telling people that me and my father threatened to have her disapear in the desert.

I know she is probably just scared that the judge will make her stay here and that she is going to ***** and and lie and kick and scream like a child to avoid it. But I cant help but think what if the judge beleives all of this nonsense? what if she is right and because both of us will fail a drug test me for pot her for god knows what they take our daughter from both of us?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Jpp3 said:


> I am really struggling today. After getting her served on Friday, she is finally willing to talk to come to an arraignment. However she does not want to hear anything I put on the table and only wants me to agree to her terms. She wants me to take her in the summers and allow her to stay in NJ. Or she wants me to move to sell my home and move to NJ. I understand that after our breakup she doesn't have anything here but why should I be punished for the fact that she has struggled to make friendships and form support here? Why should I be punished for decisions that she made to move here that she now regrets? Despite everything I do feel bad for her current situation, both her parents and sick and dying of cancer, her other daughter lives in NJ and she misses her and I know that must be hard.
> 
> I know she is just trying to get a rise out of me, trying to get me to blow up on her. So I am trying not to communicate with her but she knows how to push my buttons and how to manipulate me. She keeps saying that if we cant come to an agreement that she is going to wind up getting taken away from both of us. She is claiming that I am a sociopath and that because I was sexually abused as child that she is concerned I will turn into an abuser. This on top of the claims that I tampered with her car to try and have her killed. And she is going around telling people that me and my father threatened to have her disapear in the desert.
> 
> I know she is probably just scared that the judge will make her stay here and that she is going to ***** and and lie and kick and scream like a child to avoid it. But I cant help but think what if the judge beleives all of this nonsense? what if she is right and because both of us will fail a drug test me for pot her for god knows what they take our daughter from both of us?


Jpp3, I'll respond in more detail via PM.

1) No. Tell her that you will agree to you having primary custody of your daughter, and her living in AZ, or to you having full custody and she can live in NJ.
2) Don't feel bad for her, she's brought a ton of pain on herself, and she's earned it.
3) Bring any proof you can that she's tarring your name, claiming you threatened to kill her, etc. and also bring any proof you have to show this is completely untrue. You might try to demonstrate she is mentally unstable.
4) When was the last time you used pot? Do you use often / large amounts?
5) Ask your attorney friend, but maybe you should ask the judge for a psych eval of Ms. Crazy-Pants?

I'm not here to judge / harp on the use of pot, but you need to avoid it, and stop use until it's legalized. This could threaten your chances at custody, and future custody disputes, but also you need to be aware of Civil Asset Forfeiture. Last I checked AZ has some terrible laws about this.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

There's plenty of time to get that pot out of your system so you don't fail a drug test. Plus you shouldn't be doing drugs if you want to have custody of your child. And just beware that judges have heard it all, so nothing she claims will be new. If you have any records of her having mental illness, bring them to court and it will help alleviate her claims about you. Above all else, stay calm and rational.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> There's plenty of time to get that pot out of your system so you don't fail a drug test. Plus you shouldn't be doing drugs if you want to have custody of your child. And just beware that judges have heard it all, so nothing she claims will be new. If you have any records of her having mental illness, bring them to court and it will help alleviate her claims about you. Above all else, stay calm and rational.


Out of curiosity, any idea of how long do you usually have between court and a mandated drug screen? Same day? A week?

He's got court Wednesday, and depending on his last use, how habitually he uses, metabolism and his weight, it could take over a month to get out of his system.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

While what your STBXW did is totally wrong and you are well within your rights to force the issue to remain in Arizona, what do you think is best for your kid?

And lay off the pot for now. You don't need those problems.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Been about 3 weeks since my last use. I wasn't a heavy smoker. Nor would I consider myself to be a usual smoker but I guess that's Up For Debate maybe two nights a week. I don't particularly drink that much and would rather unwind with a hit or two. I don't intend to bring up drug use for this reason I am also trying to convince the judge that she is mentally unstable.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Kivlor said:


> Out of curiosity, any idea of how long do you usually have between court and a mandated drug screen? Same day? A week?
> 
> He's got court Wednesday, and depending on his last use, how habitually he uses, metabolism and his weight, it could take over a month to get out of his system.


I have no idea how long it takes for a court mandated drug screen since I don't live in AZ and don't know their system. I would bet though that the sample collection could be ordered for that day. However, there are some potential legal issues with screening for marijuana because there are different metabolites that can be screened for using different test types. There was a DUI case that was overturned by an appeals court in AZ because of the metabolite screening test that was used, the length of time that the metabolites can stay in your body, and the ability to purchase legally in CO.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

In ohio you have about 30 seconds. Party requests it, judge grants it and you head to the bathroom 


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Don't courts usually order hair sample tests? Those show a history of *90* days.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

This is the longest night of my life, its 3:30 AM and my mind is racing. My hearing is at 9:00 AM. Everything i thought i knew was wrong. I didnt think they granted phone hearings for emergency hearings, wrong they did. I didnt think she had an attorney and that she was just getting councel from someone in New Jersey, wrong she has an attorney here in Arizona who will be there tomorrow. 

So now tomorrow i go in unrepresented against her lawyer. Any evidence i think i have will be twisted and shot down. I really thought she was either not going to show or show up unrepresented. I thought this morning based off some messages I received from her that she had gotten on a plane to come here and that I was going to get to see my daughter today.

I feel broken, beaten and it hasnt even started yet. The only solice I have is that this is a hearing for a temperorary order, so if things dont go well tomorrow i get another chance. However if things dont go well then i dont know when ill see her next. 

I know stressing doesnt help anything but this uncertainty is killing me.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> I have no idea how long it takes for a court mandated drug screen since I don't live in AZ and don't know their system. I would bet though that the sample collection could be ordered for that day. However, there are some potential legal issues with screening for marijuana because there are different metabolites that can be screened for using different test types. There was a DUI case that was overturned by an appeals court in AZ because of the metabolite screening test that was used, the length of time that the metabolites can stay in your body, and the ability to purchase legally in CO.


Part of the problem is that pot metabolites stay in the body long after the high wears off so it is impossible to prove DUI based on testing alone. In a custody case, civil vs criminal, the court generally doesn't care when the drug use occurred just that it did.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

We're rooting for you @Jpp3

I hope your court hearing goes well.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

If her lawyer shows up, simply ask the judge for a continuance and hire a lawyer before the next hearing. If that's tomorrow (unlikely), then you need to find someone quick!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry, man be prepared for the worst case scenario. My buddy is currently going through this right now and his ex was able to phone in and not bring his son back to Arizona. He had custody orders in place and a visitation agreement. She left in March, his next court date isn't until August. So, while she is building up negative things with the court, he hasn't seen his son in two months. 

Stay calm and don't overreact. Last thing you want to do is upset the judge. Whoever you get will most likely be the judge for your case, until the child is 18. Good on you for filing in AZ because she'll have to come back and then waste money to get it moved to wherever she lives.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

@Jpp3 how did it go? Is everything alright? You doing okay?


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Not a whole lot happened at the hearing, it was over before i knew it. Frankly I froze up I was like a dear in headlights and barley got any words in. None of the points I wanted to make to judge got made, I didn't even present him with my witness letters. She was granted permission to appear telephonic-ally, and her and her lawyer said there are concerns about domestic abuse and child endangerment. He did not order her back to the state, but ordered a for the best interest of the child attorney because her allegations as well as mine of concerns for mental health issues. He scheduled an evidentiary hearing for the 2nd.

I have since been able to find funds for legal counsel. She feels good about being able to get her back to the state. We are doing our best to work with the best interest attorney and are being more than cooperative. I have a home visit with her scheduled next week to show that I have a stable safe environment for her and plans for schooling and a religious foundation. 

I am doing ok, I have some good days and some bad days. I had a really rough week following the hearing. I was having frquent panic attacks every time I heard from her almost. My dr put me on some medication that I was a little concerned about at first, lexapro and xanax they had some nasty side affects at first. I then saw my uncle who is a natural health care physician and while I dont quite understand what he did it sees to have helped alot. I have been sleeping better, handling my stress and anxiety better, been able to eat full meals and take care of my self. I still have some moments where I get anxious or are feeling down but all in all doing better. I feel good about my attoeney and having a plan for the next hearing.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

JPP, thanks so much for returning to give us an update on your progress in getting your daughter back. I'm glad to hear that you are pleased so far with the attorney you selected. I am wishing the best for you and your daughter.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

I met with the best interest attorney assigned to my daughter and I don't think it could have gone any better. She did not come out and say it but seemed to agree with me on most of my positions. per my attorneys advice I did not hold anything back I was honest and forthright about my past pot use and let her know I have since quit and would be willing to take a drug class and weekly testing if necessary and thought fit by the court. She rolled her eyes and scoffed several times and some of the remarks and accusations brought against me from my ex and was pleased with my cooperation and mentioned while she has had a phone interview with my ex it was brief, and would have liked to have met with her in person and see first hand my daughter's current living situation. I also learned her and my attorney know and have worked with each other on many cases cases and are on a first name basis.

My attorney seems very confident, she has written a very good pretrial statement and points out that by being out of state she is in direct violation of the court proceedings by being out of state during this trial, and by being out of state that she has rendered her health insurance useless. She pointed out her mental health issues and a letter received from the suicide prevention center she was seeking treatment from. 

Today I also had the police back here as she again sent someone to the house, this time not to take things but it appears to snoop and probably try to get evidence, the only reason I found out she did so was because they took a picture of my daughter off my fridge. 

Anyway, while I am feeling pretty good I am again getting ancy and nervous about the hearing its the uncertainty that's killing me. Each day closer is getting harder to focus on me and work and my stomach is in knots again, not sleeping well again. I just want this hearing over so we can move to the next step and hopefully get the right to see my daughter.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Here I am again the night before my next hearing. A nervous wreck. I received yesterday her pretrial statement two days late none the less however my attorney agreed to it as a professional curtosey. She is making claims of domestic abuse, mainly that I was controlling and coercive and mentally abusive. After reading into "domestic abuse" I suppose some of my behavior could be construed as such, however that was never any of my intention I legitimately was concerned and wanted to make sure that she was ok after threats of suicide and odd behavior. By her account and definition of "domestic abuse" she is every bit as guilty of that as I am however. Threatening to leave, threatening to take my child, carrying through with taking my child, threatening suicide, ext. I know I just need to shut my brain off but I can't stop thinking and worrying.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If people are getting into your house, you would benefit from installing some hidden cameras. That way you will have the evidence you need to prosecute.

How did people get into your home?

Also, I suggest that you take pictures and videos of the inside and outside of your home. That way you have evidence of what is there. So if things are taken, you can prove that you used to have them.

I hope that your court date goes well. Good luck!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Listen to your atty and follow his instructions in detail. For example, never admit to being abusive is probably something he will tell you. We all do things which looked at in certain contexts can be abusive, but in other contexts it is clearly not. You are not an expert on domestic abuse and not qualified to have an official opinion on it. What I mean is, in the context of legal proceedings you have no way of making an informed opinion on whether you were emotionally abusive to her.

Is whatever she's alleged even relevant in court? Your attorney should be advising you on what to expect at this hearing and what to do if something upsets you. Also, what to do if someone asks you about this past behavior. Usually an attorney would intercede if they can to stop you from saying something harmful to your case. If your stbxw's allegations are potentially a problem, you should discuss it ahead of time with your attorney.

I'm sure this is nothing new at all for your attorney, so trust his/her judgment. Follow his instructions.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm super proud of you for getting off the pot and doing the best you can for your daughter. Praying over your situation 


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

If your house has more than two bedrooms, you can get a roommate immediately and get some additional money into your home. You may be able to share with another single father who has a daughter, so the children could share a room. 

Do you have a lawnmower? If so, you could mow lawns evenings and weekends. Our lawnmower recently broke down and we had a terrible time finding anyone to come and mow our out of control lawn. This is the time of year to make some extra cash doing yard work.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

So court went well today but no decision was made by the judge he said this is a difficult case and needs to take some additional time to review the evidence and our testimonies today and will have an answer in response to the return of the child and temperory orders by early next week, hopefully by Monday but I expect no later than Wednesday.

I spoke with my daughter last night and she said "momma flying momma on the airplane" I suspected she would be there and did in fact appear in court today. She did however leave my daughter in NJ in her parents care.

My attorney said I was great on the witness stand and thinks it went well. I did not skip a beat, I was calm and collective and clear in my statements. I answered all questions honestly without painting my self in a bad light and got accross many of the major points I wanted to the judge while on the stand. Her counsel tried to ask me loaded yes or no questions to which I did not let her trip me up. The best interest attorney asked some questions as well confirming what I told her in our original meeting and relaying that info to the judge.

She was then called to the stand, she looked run down and terrible. She answered every question with almost the same generic rehearsed response. When questioned by my attorney and was caught off guard by the question she either used the same generic answer she had given to several questions or stuttered, paused and answered with a blatant lie. She lied threw her teeth and I hope it shows. The best interest attorney kind of drilled and laid into her, she did not have a response to several of her questions. 

Closing statements went from my attorney who made valid points in regards to the return of the child.
Her attorney again made claims of domestic abuse with zero evidence and stated that she should stay in NJ
The best interest attorney said she feels the child should be returned and feels that if she is, that we may be able to reach an agreement. 

The judge them made his statement about needing more time, and ordered both of us to take a urine test. I was hoping my attorney was going to request hair, she told me after that she didn't want to go against the judges order but if nothing turns up she will request it from her. I was hoping to catch her lying under oath, she claimed in court she hasn't used any drugs in over 4 years. Hahaha ok. 

Now I wait until next week but I am feeling pretty good afyer today.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sounds good. Hope you get a good decision next week.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

Sounds like you have a decent judge 


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Good luck, I hope you are one of the lucky ones.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

This having to be patient thing is killing me. I was patient when she went on her 30 day "vacation" I was patient awaiting my May 10th hearing, I was patient awaiting my June 2nd hearing but having to be patient now again to get back ruling sucks!!!


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

After nearly 3 weeks of waiting on pins and needles for the ruling to come in it finally arrived today. I do not have the full story as I only found out by checking online and finding the update I called the clerk and was informed by her, none of the other parties were aware of yet inçluding my attorney. 

My ex has been granted primary custody in NJ with me being granted "liberal" parenting time.
I about dropped the phone, I am baffled. I don't know how this can happen. 
The only logical reason I can think of is that they want both parents to have parenting time and her claim, and really her only argument in court is that I should just move back to NJ, I have family and friends and resources there still and she has none here in AZ. 

Me and my ex spoke about a week ago and agreed that whatever the outcome may be that we would mediate and she agreed that if ruled in her favor that we could work out a 50/50 joint parenting time. I hope she sticks to her word.

I will hear from my lawyer again tomorrow she told me that there is still a chance to fight it but honestly I just want it to be over I feel defeated. I don't want to move back to Jersey but this has already taken such a toll on me and I can imagine my daughter too that I can't imagine dragging it out further. They also stated in court that if dragged out further than it needed to be that they would be seeking attorney fees from me so there is the chance that I take it back to court for months, pay my lawyer extra and then I lose again and have to pay hers too and end up in the same spot. Maybe worse she may pull back her mediation deal at that point too.

So It looks like I'm selling my house and moving back to Jersey.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Jpp3 said:


> My ex has been granted primary custody in NJ with me being granted "liberal" parenting time.
> 
> I about dropped the phone, I am baffled. I don't know how this can happen.
> 
> The only logical reason I can think of is that they want both parents to have parenting time and her claim, and really her only argument in court is that I should just move back to NJ, I have family and friends and resources there still and she has none here in AZ.


My divorce papers stated I had custody, but exH had "liberal visitation". We agreed he'd have the kids Friday evening til Sunday evening, weekly. When he decided not to return the children one Sunday, I contacted the police. Since my custody agreement wasn't specific, they couldn't help me retrieve my children. I called the court the next morning and was told the same thing. I was told I'd have to file an emergency motion, get the kids ordered returned to me, and have my custody agreement modified to include specific days and times. You can't enforce vague.

As you live in a different state from your daughter, my guess is the judge didn't list specifics because of the logistics. Once you relocate, go back to court and get specifics in black and white, signed by a judge, just in case she refuses access.

I'm not surprised at the ruling. I've seem similar rulings here. Once a child has been moved a distance and "established" there with the other parent it's hard to get them back.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Jpp3 said:


> After nearly 3 weeks of waiting on pins and needles for the ruling to come in it finally arrived today. I do not have the full story as I only found out by checking online and finding the update I called the clerk and was informed by her, none of the other parties were aware of yet inçluding my attorney.
> 
> My ex has been granted primary custody in NJ with me being granted "liberal" parenting time.
> I about dropped the phone, I am baffled. I don't know how this can happen.
> ...


Save your money. No, I am not lying. Arizona is a **** system when it comes to child custody for men. Some will argue, but I am talking about my home state not the US.
It was why I said be prepared and this:


> Good luck, I hope you are one of the lucky ones.


If I told you all the crap I went through in Arizona, you'd say I was lying. Oh and I consider my CS case one of the better ones in our state. I actually paid an extra year of interest support for monies I owed AFTER, they sent my a registered letter saying my support obligation was done.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss 

What county? I'm in Pinal. I feel like that court is so backed up the judge didn't want to deal with a case involving one party and the child being out of state. The order was simple with no explanation of reasoning to the ruling after they dragged their feet taking 3 weeks as opposed the 3 days that he he stayed. My attorney said they handled my case very oddly.

They did not order her back even though it clearly states that the minor child must be in the state during proceedings. I feel like none of my evidence was taken into account. If he reviewed it and looked through it all like he said he would, then he would clearly see that she lied through her teeth under oath through out the hearing.

She showed up to court looking disheveled, at first I thought this will look bad on her but then I realized she did this on purpose. Her whole claim and argument was that she has now where and nothing here and if she returned she would be homeless. She claimed to be struggling as it is back in Jersey and having to come here for trial is such a burden, that she slept in the airport and would be again that night until her flight back the next day.

Yet really she stayed with a friend, a friend who would let her live with her if she came back here. Her vehicle, which I'm still paying the insurance on is here, she had a job lined up upon her arrival before she decided not to return. And just days prior was flashing photos of herself riding around in her lovers Rolls Royce.

Even still I feel like going back to court and telling the judge he's wrong probably isn't in my best interest. I typed up an extremely reasonable settlement proposal, my lawyer approved. I should hear back from her by Wednesday. If she does not accept, then I will take it to trial. If she does then back east I go. If there's one silver lining in being forced to move back east other than obviously my daughter, it's the food, I do miss the food.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Maricopa, but much of what we deal with is the same state wide. Your story is just like my buddies. He probably had the same so called court protection you did. She wasn't supposed to leave, she was supposed to appear at the first court date. She was supposed to inform him in writing and go to court before she left. Like your ex, she got mad when he filed and just up and left the state. They let her phone in to the first court appearance, didn't fine her when she missed COURT ORDERED parenting time and then pushed the court date to August. He had people to help him sooner though because he has documents like you wouldn't believe. When she firs started threatening him with leaving, I told him to only have discussions in text. It was hard, but when he hire his lawyer he had a goldmine worth of incendiary things.
At this point, only communicate in email and texts. Save everything. If you have to move, do what you need to do, protect yourself. It is NEVER too late, to fight for custody. Save up and do it again.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Wow, ya pretty much same story as mine. 

This is the proposed settlement I made her. Obviously some legal wording is not correct my position pretty clear. She denied it. So now I will keep fighting in court. I am going to put in a motion for request to reconsider for this temporary order. And then proceed to take it to trial for a final ruling. I have more evidence since the last hearing and people to testify on my behalf that she lied under oath several times.

Here is my proposal,

I wish to be in Lylahs life, not for a period of 2-3 months a year in the summer but her everyday life. I wish to be there for all her milestones, watch her grow and develop into her own person, I want to be there to help teach her and guide her through life and mold her into a respectful, responsible little girl. I want to be there for any future sporting events or music concerts or plays, I want to help her with homework and be there for her if she is having a hard time. I cannot do these things through Skype while living in another state. 

If we can come to a reasonable agreement I will not proceed and take this to trial. Historically when we have had issues in the past and the possibility of a separation was at hand we had agreed to work with one another, these are things we had verbal agreements on in the past with a little more detail and perhaps a few more things that may not have come up. 


At this point, with the ruling that Lylah is able to remain in New Jersey, I will make arrangements to move back. There are some logistics that I need to figure out in order to make this move possible but I intend to do so as quickly as I can. I will be staying with Nick and Jess (Lylahs God parents) in their newly renovated home upon my arrival. There is plenty of space there for both me and her until I am able to find a suitable home. I have already started reaching out to some contacts to find stable year round employment, and intend to be working shortly after my arrival.

Conditions (C)

(C-1) Upon my arrival to New Jersey, I would like to take Lylah for a period of no less then two weeks (see below C-5) to spend time and reconnect with her and visit with family, as at this point it has been 3 months since I have last seen her and may end up being 4 or 5 months by the time I am able to make arrangements to get out there. She of course may maintain contact with you during this time through phone or Skype.

(C-2) 50/50 joint parenting time, the schedule to this can be discussed at a further time but I will include some examples below.

(C-3) You stated you wished to have custodial residency for "insurance purposes". This is fine if you intend to maintain health insurance through the state or work. 
If in the event you are not able I will be able to provide health coverage but would assume the role of custodial parent. I would not seek child support from you weather I paid for the insurance out of pocket or through work.

(C-4) All major decisions regarding schooling, medical, religion, ect will be discussed amongst each other and the best course of action decided together.

(C-5) Lylah will not be aloud to be taken out of the state without written consent from the other parent, and never for a period of more than two weeks.

(C-6) In the event that one parent is injured, sick or otherwise unable to care properly for Lylah, the other parent will temperoraly assume custody until the injured parent can resume properly caring for her. If suggested perhaps a switch in parenting time may be a solution depending on the severity of the injury or illness. During this this time the parent assuming custody will maintain meaningful contact between the other parent and their family through visitation, phone or video chat services.

(C-7) A new and updated AFI from each parent. 
Once employment starts for you, and you find a place to live outside of your parents.
And once I find employment and a place to live upon my arrival to the state.
These new and updated AFI to account our life changes will be used to determine if any child support is due to either party.
Until this time needs for Lylah can be discussed amongst ourselves and decisions made based off Needs vs Wants basis and I will be happy to contribute to help pay for anything she may need.

(C-8) Rotating years for holidays. We will rotate years in which who Lylah spends the holidays with. You may make the decision on who has her first each year. I am open to splitting them up so that it is not so black and white if you like. Or even splitting days up, you have her for the morning and early lunch and bring her to me in the afternoon or something of the sort. The only exception being Mother's day and Father's day, obviously those are our own holidays with her. Our birthdays so we choose, and I would prefer to split the her birthday with her. Generally this is done by years, odds and evens, and since you have had her already for mother's day, while I missed Father's day and you had her Easter already this year I feel that you should take odds.

(C-9) Rotating claiming her on tax returns. I understand you ran into issues with this with Autumn, but perhaps we can figure it out this time with Lylah. Simalarly to what you and David have worked out, we can rotate who claims her as a dependent on their taxes each year, you may choose the year in which you would like to start. In the event that parent who year it is to claim is unable to for some reason the other parent will claim and write a check for the appropriate child tax credit to the parent who's year it is.
Alternitally I am also ok with splitting the child tax credit each year. 

(C-10) I think it fair that if any new significant others will be around Lylah on a continuing basis that the other person have the opportunity to meet them. I do not wish to meddle in your personal life nor do I want you in mine, however I think we each deserve to know who is spending time around our child, or watching her while we may not be around.

(C-11) Co parenting counseling. I am not suggesting this forever or even an extended period of time, but I do think it would be beneficial for us and for Lylah of were to attend even a few co parenting counseling sessions to help adjust to a new lifestyle for us and our daughter.

I apologise for the delay I just wanted to make sure I got it all out. Please read them over, discuss with your attorney if you feel nessacary. Let me know if you have any objections or anything you would like to add. But ultimately I truly feel that these are not only in the best interest of Lylah but also extremely fair to each of us.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You should remove real names from that posting so as to keep anonymity.

The 2 week limit on taking your child out of state seems short to me. The time may come when there is a legitimate opportunity for her which is longer than 2 weeks.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

You sound very reasonable and I think 2 weeks is plenty. My order states that is the max the kids can be away from either parent 


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

My kids have had opportunities for school trips or visiting distant relatives lasting more than 2 weeks. I would have a provision for prior permission required before taking them out of state for more than 2 weeks, thus preventing a parent from arbitrarily removing the child for a long period of time, but allowing for the possibility of a legitimate lengthy trip.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Of course she did. Currently she has the upper hand and it is going to be an uphill battle. First thing you need to do is call a lawyer in NJ. You want to see which court has the better Child Support and co-parenting rules. The last thing you want to do is have her move the courts jurisdiction where you get screwed over. I know how you feel when your child's mom wants to move, but it may be in you and your child's best interest to remain in AZ for now. Yes, it sucks to be away, but this is this about the long term. All of this will affect you for the rest of your life. 

From now on, only talk in texts and emails. No, I am not kidding. The only thing holding up my friend's mediation is she, good lord I love bias, balked at having to pay child support. It's funny how he NEEDED to pay CS because it is for the child, but when the shoe was on the other foot she promptly said he wanted money just for his lifestyle.


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