# Planning Divorce......but in the mean time...



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm in the process of learning all I can before I drop the D bomb. I believe the problems our marriage has is more than can be repaired. I finally got H into IC to work on his issues. I have no faith he's actually telling the truth in there tho. I'm fixing a few things around the house, I have an appraisal coming, I have appts set with my IC and an attorney. All that to say I'm moving forward to the people who have travelled this journey with me. I know it's taken me a long time to get here. Right now, he knows I have one foot out the door but not that I'm planning. 

Two weeks ago I took us away, out of town. Just us for the first time since our 3 year old was born. I wanted to see if we could still even have fun together anymore. We drove, and the first conversation was him grilling me on what my dr has said re my perimenopause. I explained a few things to him. "Oooooooohhhhhhh, that makes so much sense as to why you're so unreasonable these last couple years". No, I have not been unreasonable, nor have I been in p-menopause for that long. "Well it sure makes a lot of sense why you find fault in every thing I do. Don't you think that's the reason we've been having such bad troubles?" No. I think there are many factors contributing to our problems stemming from both of us. Do I think my menopause is the sole reason? Absolutely not. Do I think it has contributed to how I've handled the problems THAT WERE ALL READY THERE, certainly! Menopause is not our problem tho. 

We ended up having an ok getaway after that conversation. Since we've been home it's back to normal....I'm putting the kids to bed when he said he would, he caught a stuffy nose (seriously!!!) and called out sick for 4 days. He made a huge point that this weekend was to be family weekend...no kids activities, no dog training appts, etc...just family. All day Saturday he stayed in his man cave watching movies while me & the girls played. Sunday he didn't even go to church with us, but wouldn't tell me that, he simply never got ready. We got home from church and he went for a hike. 

I'm not exaggerating when I say he's not speaking to me. If I ask him a direct question he will grunt. 

Which leads me to why I came back to TAM tonight....why in the world did he want to screw me tonight? I walked in the door from dog training class & he walked out for a run. I was trying to get my daughters to bed when he came back but he went straight to bed (at 8pm). After an hour of the house being settled he comes walking into the living room, grabs my hand & pulls me to the bedroom. All I want to do is say....'you don't speak to me for over a week, you don't acknowledge me unless I'm in your way, you plan family time but then disappoint the girls because you hide away and NOW you want me to f*ck you????'

I wish I had said that. I just didn't have it in me to lose 1/2 a night sleep from the fight that would have ensued. 
I don't think it's the crazy menopausal b!tch thinking these things...although she comes out a lot lately!

I'm doing my research an setting my ducks in their rows. But in the mean time...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I'm not a fan of the passive agressive ambush Divorce technique.

I think that taking him out for a weekend getaway was a mute point because you have already decided under no circumstances will your marriage continue. I also have no idea why you'd have sex with a man you can't stand to be married to. That speaks more about you than it does him.

When you say getting all your ducks in a row, what you really mean is how to get the most out of the joint assets and minimize liabilites while he's too shell shocked to know the difference.

So, why can't you just sit down like grownups and decide how the future will go as a divorced couple?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Revamped said:


> I'm not a fan of the passive agressive ambush Divorce technique.
> 
> I think that taking him out for a weekend getaway was a mute point because you have already decided under no circumstances will your marriage continue. I also have no idea why you'd have sex with a man you can't stand to be married to. That speaks more about you than it does him.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with all of the above.

It also feels as if OP is really concentrated on her own issues with husband without any care for her husband's concerns.

Marriage is a 2 way street, 50/50.....it takes 2 to tango.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You better not be having sex if you are going to get a divorce. 
That's not right to the possible child that could be created.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I had wondered how you were, Stacy. It's been a long road, I know, from your threads. And very difficult for you to get to the point you have. You kept hoping he'd change. When you do drop divorce papers on him be prepared for every promise in the book. He won't let go easily. 

But in the meantime? You need to tell him you don't feel connected enough for sex. Give him examples of why you don't. Then it's up to him. But don't give in just because you don't want to deal with a fight.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Openminded said:


> But in the meantime? You need to tell him you don't feel connected enough for sex. Give him examples of why you don't. Then it's up to him. But don't give in just because you don't want to deal with a fight.


I would probably say that DUE to above (enabling) is probably the reason why lot of these issues remain in your marriage.

Your husband is getting 0 consequences.

If there is no consequences for his actions (in this case, no action).......you are basically telling him "it's ok" WITH your actions.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

I removed this post because I looked at your past threads, and you are WAY past my recommendations. I don't blame you for your plans at all. Best of luck to you.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

DoF said:


> I would probably say that DUE to above (enabling) is probably the reason why lot of these issues remain in your marriage.
> 
> Your husband is getting 0 consequences.
> 
> If there is no consequences for his actions (in this case, no action).......you are basically telling him "it's ok" WITH your actions.


Maybe it's enabling, or maybe she is just DONE.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

RoseAglow said:


> Maybe it's enabling, or maybe she is just DONE.


She could be done if she wants to be. But if she doesn't learn from this and prevents it from happening again........next relationship will be no different.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

RoseAglow said:


> I removed this post because I looked at your past threads, and you are WAY past my recommendations. I don't blame you for your plans at all. Best of luck to you.





DoF said:


> She could be done if she wants to be. But if she doesn't learn from this and prevents it from happening again........next relationship will be no different.


I looked at her old posts. She has certainly tried, and then some. 

I would do the same thing in her shoes. I would stay quiet, keep the status quo for now while planning my escape to make things as clean, easy, and quick as possible.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

sounds like you are done with your hubby

from his comments, sounds like he is long done with you. What is this church ****? do you make him go to church every weekend and get pissed if he does not? Reading between the lines of HIS comments, i would guess the sex in your marriage is next to zero even though he has been pleading with you for more sex? That is why he thought your menopause was an explanation of your denials and moodiness towards him.

I agree with you. Divorce him, he is being abused.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I'll try to address most of the comments and questions. 

Hubby had a vasectomy last year, bringing a baby into this is not a concern. 

I can understand by this one thread I can be seen as passive aggressive (truthfully sometimes I am), and that I'm setting up to ambush my husband for the sake of property and finances. The reality is, he completely ruined our finances a few years ago including liquidating some retirement accounts with plans to hit another one soon. We are steadily going under. There's really not much to save, and what little is there....yes, I would like to save my half before he blows thru it. 

I have addressed my husbands concerns for too many years to count. I agree, it is a two way street. 

I do not make him go to church. He grew up in the church, I didn't. We attended sporadically after we were married and then got involved in our local church and joined shortly before our 3 year old was born. It was his wish, which I totally agreed with. He wanted our daughters to grow up knowing God, he wanted it to be a family involvement, and he wanted to meet knew people, make friends and broaden our social circle. I volunteer, work in the nursery, join women's groups and activities with the kids and church outreach. I believe husband has seen me make friends, get involved and have connections at church and he is resentful. He hasn't put himself out there, made friends or joined any of the men's groups. Wait, I take that back, he joined one early on but quit early because the other men were difficult, the study didn't interest hubby, I don't remember exactly what the reason was but dear husband finds fault in everyone and people are never as right as he is. Anyway...what I'm trying to say is I've never required him to go to church. He will start a million things but not follow thru or continue. He works every other Sunday so on the Sundays he's home my daughters are disappointed that Daddy isn't going to church with us. 

I have no idea how one can read between the lines and determine he is abused and his sex life is zero. Not that it's any of your business, but in 17+ years, I can count on both hands the number of times I have told him no & given him a rain check, and I would still have some fingers left over. Even after I had major back surgeries (3 total) and was not supposed to be sexually active for 6 weeks post op, I took care of him. After each surgery, even tho I was using other methods, he still couldn't wait the 6 weeks and we had sex sooner than I should've. I sometimes wonder if this is a possible reason that my surgeries were not successful. Sure, we are not as frequent now as other years. That is mostly due to his schedule, but also due to the way we are feeling towards each other. 

In our last divorce conversation I asked him...don't you want to be with someone who is in love with you, respects you, cherishes and adores you? His answer to me...."No. I just don't want you to abandon me." He has some serious issues. 


I've mentioned in previous threads, I have back problems which cannot be fixed and I see a specialist for chronic pain management. On Sunday I had a bad flare up which has progressively gotten worse. Got into the doc yesterday, I'm having muscle spasms and a couple pinched nerves in my back & going down my leg. I started a course of steroids and doc put me on crutches until the muscles and nerves loosen up. Guess what hubby's response was..."it's always something with you!" Instead of helping me or caring for his daughters, he is angry at me. I have not had a flare up this bad in a very long time and there was nothing I did, like lifting something heavy/moving furniture/new exercise routine/etc, that caused it. I don't get flare ups this bad near as often as I used to. So...I'm left to do my best on crutches while he goes to bed at 6:30-7:00 stewing in his anger and leaving me to care for our girls. My 8 year old has been awesome! She's helping me get & carry things, keep the house in minimal order, care for her sister...basically everything her father should be doing. She even commented to me last night...why isn't Daddy helping and taking care of you? When I ask him for help he wants to list all the things I do wrong and his reasons for being angry. I don't know why he has to kick me when I'm down instead of waiting till I can literally stand on my own two feet. 

So yes...those that said above that it sounds like I'm just done, I am done. Capital DONE. I simply can not blow up our family light-heartedly or untangle 16+ years of marriage and life together quickly. I wish I could. I wish I could get out today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Openminded...thank you for your continued advice and compassion. I appreciate you sticking with me. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Stacy, as one who has followed your story, I commend you for finally having the strength to move forward. Its been a long time coming, and I hope you will share with us as you proceed. 

Wishing you continued strength!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Has he still been trying to initiate sex? If he is, and also acting distant sometimes (like when he didn't go to church with you, then went for a hike after) it probably means his gut is telling him to do something to head off your leaving. His instincts, if he senses you are going to leave, are probably to try initiating hypersexual bonding. You continuing to pretend you are there but actually being checked out is causing him confusion, and when you do finally leave and he finds out it was your plan all along, and that you strung him along with vacation together and sex, he will be humiliated and angry, ensuring that he will not feel compelled to play nice with divorce proceedings.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

You know what? 
He's an absolute azz. 
I'm trying to get some things fixed in the house to maximize our SHARED profit, but also wait till after the holidays for the girls. My oldest has her birthday in December too. I can't blow up their world during the holidays. 
But even my 8 year old looked at me tonight and right in front of hubby asked, "why does he do this mom? Why does he do this to you and why is he so grumpy?"
I'm not doing them any favors. But I can't turn their worlds upside down during the holidays. That would never go away. 
No holding back come January. 
He's an azz.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lon said:


> Has he still been trying to initiate sex? If he is, and also acting distant sometimes (like when he didn't go to church with you, then went for a hike after) it probably means his gut is telling him to do something to head off your leaving. His instincts, if he senses you are going to leave, are probably to try initiating hypersexual bonding. You continuing to pretend you are there but actually being checked out is causing him confusion, and when you do finally leave and he finds out it was your plan all along, *and that you strung him along with vacation together and sex,* he will be humiliated and angry, ensuring that he will not feel compelled to play nice with divorce proceedings.





MsStacy said:


> ]Two weeks ago I took us away, out of town. Just us for the first time since our 3 year old was born. I wanted to see if we could still even have fun together anymore.


The OP clearly stated that the vacation was to see if they could get along and enjoy doing things together. It was an attempt to fix the marriage. They are also in counseling and trying to fix the marriage.

There are a lot of men here who say that they do not love their wives but they are staying until the children are 18 and then they are dumping the wife. So these men are planning their divorce for years. These men get support for doing this.

Often times men are told to not alert their wife, but to go see an attorney and get everything ready to just have the unsuspecting wife served with divorce papers. And these men get support for doing this.

I don't get why a woman who has been struggling with a difficult husband for years is being attacked as though she's an abuser and a terrible person.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MsStacy said:


> I'm in the process of learning all I can before I drop the D bomb. I believe the problems our marriage has is more than can be repaired. I finally got H into IC to work on his issues. I have no faith he's actually telling the truth in there tho. I'm fixing a few things around the house, I have an appraisal coming, I have appts set with my IC and an attorney. All that to say I'm moving forward to the people who have travelled this journey with me. I know it's taken me a long time to get here. Right now, he knows I have one foot out the door but not that I'm planning.
> 
> Two weeks ago I took us away, out of town. Just us for the first time since our 3 year old was born. I wanted to see if we could still even have fun together anymore. We drove, and the first conversation was him grilling me on what my dr has said re my perimenopause. I explained a few things to him. "Oooooooohhhhhhh, that makes so much sense as to why you're so unreasonable these last couple years". No, I have not been unreasonable, nor have I been in p-menopause for that long. "Well it sure makes a lot of sense why you find fault in every thing I do. Don't you think that's the reason we've been having such bad troubles?" No. I think there are many factors contributing to our problems stemming from both of us. Do I think my menopause is the sole reason? Absolutely not. Do I think it has contributed to how I've handled the problems THAT WERE ALL READY THERE, certainly! Menopause is not our problem tho.
> 
> ...




He has no idea how to fix this. He may have no idea how to change. He has an intuition you are leaving so he is, by measures, trying to emotionally separate himself from you and the kids (Saturday, Sunday) but also, in direct contradiction, wants to create 'family time' to try to shore up the floundering family unity.

I am guessing he was fully on board with that weekend and then he saw 'The Look' or 'The Sigh' that you threw at him and despaired of ever being able to fix anything. So he just cancelled his good intentions.

And I'm sorry, but if you are not sharing your heart with him and thinking you are slyly setting up a divorce, he has no reason to share his heart and his motives with you.

As far as the sex? That most trite movie cliché of all...that a magic kiss or moment can remind someone of exactly how special they are to you.

Obviously this is false and had less than zero effect on you 'He be CRAZY!'

Hey, I am not saying he's a prince of a spouse. I AM pointing out that there are 'reasons' for the way he is behaving.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The OP clearly stated that the vacation was to see if they could get along and enjoy doing things together. It was an attempt to fix the marriage. They are also in counseling and trying to fix the marriage.
> 
> There are a lot of men here who say that they do not love their wives but they are staying until the children are 18 and then they are dumping the wife. So these men are planning their divorce for years. These men get support for doing this.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

You have not made me rethink her moral position at all.

Instead, you have me questioning any support that I would give a man in the same circumstances.

This is a good way to gauge the morality of an action in gender encounters: would we accept it if 'that woman' or 'that man' did it instead of one's preferred gender.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

MsStacy said:


> You know what?
> He's an absolute azz.
> I'm trying to get some things fixed in the house to maximize our SHARED profit, but also wait till after the holidays for the girls. My oldest has her birthday in December too. I can't blow up their world during the holidays.
> But even my 8 year old looked at me tonight and right in front of hubby asked, "why does he do this mom? Why does he do this to you and why is he so grumpy?"
> ...


Don't put this on hold. Based on what your kids told you, and what you have been thru.........leaving him DURING holidays will be the best gift for both you and your children.



And it will be a valuable lesson for them to. And the lesson is, holidays or not, life if life and you have to deal with it and be strong.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The OP clearly stated that the vacation was to see if they could get along and enjoy doing things together. It was an attempt to fix the marriage. They are also in counseling and trying to fix the marriage.
> 
> There are a lot of men here who say that they do not love their wives but they are staying until the children are 18 and then they are dumping the wife. So these men are planning their divorce for years. These men get support for doing this.
> 
> ...



You can't say you are "trying to repair the marriage" on one hand, while actively planning your exit on the other.

There is nothing wrong with advising someone who has expressed their intent on leaving to seek legal counsel and get their financial affairs in order. However I have never once seen any man get advice on this site to follow through with divorce while also trying to continue meeting his W's needs, that would be deliberately misleading and a very dishonorable thing for a person to do.

If you are checked out then get off the fence and act on it swiftly to minimize the damage to all involved.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

MsStacy said:


> Openminded...thank you for your continued advice and compassion. I appreciate you sticking with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Smiling. I want to see you happy!!


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Maybe it's the steroids making me more aggressive, but I really don't need to hear how I'm plotting against my H, abusing him or misleading him. He knows I want out but I also wanted to do everything I could to save my family. If that is confusing to him then maybe he should step up and do something instead if sitting back and telling me about everything I've done that's wrong. 

I have been in excruciating pain since Tuesday. I've done everything I can to hold it together for my girls, not break down & cry in front of them, be strong so they don't know how bad I'm hurting right now. My 8 year old is watching me like a hawk and being the best caretaker. My husband...has done nothing. He is off work this weekend and barely helping with the girls. He's giving me the silent treatment...only speaking to me to tell me that he's angry I'm hurting and it's my own fault. Bullsh!t. 

I finally felt ok enough to get in the shower for the first time this WEEK!! I couldn't stand it anymore. Gee honey, can I help you? What can I do to help or make it easier? Anything like that??? NO!! The shower was much harder than I thought it would be. I got out feeling like I was going to pass out and he looked at me & said "I thought you said you would be doing better by today. It's time for (3year olds) nap." And he left. Everyone thinks I'm so fortunate to have help at home. Little do they know it's my 8 year old right now and not my "partner". 

I may not even wait to get the floors redone and few things fixed in the house. Taking a loss would be better than enduring this [email protected]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MsStacy said:


> Maybe it's the steroids making me more aggressive, but I really don't need to hear how I'm plotting against my H, abusing him or misleading him. He knows I want out but I also wanted to do everything I could to save my family. If that is confusing to him then maybe he should step up and do something instead if sitting back and telling me about everything I've done that's wrong.
> 
> I have been in excruciating pain since Tuesday. I've done everything I can to hold it together for my girls, not break down & cry in front of them, be strong so they don't know how bad I'm hurting right now. My 8 year old is watching me like a hawk and being the best caretaker. My husband...has done nothing. He is off work this weekend and barely helping with the girls. He's giving me the silent treatment...only speaking to me to tell me that he's angry I'm hurting and it's my own fault. Bullsh!t.
> 
> ...



If what you say is correct, you probably should.

Of course I advocate preparing before you leave, but I also tend to be straightforward as well.

Has anyone given you the 180 description? This is mostly used for people in affairs, but I think it broad enough to work in other instances.



> For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:
> 
> 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
> implore.
> ...


Your pain is coming from the conflict. You feel like a failure, even though it takes two to be a couple. You worry about your kids, you worry about your reputation, you worry about your future alone (however little he is doing to help with the kids, it is still > zero) etc.

It must be excruciating! 

The 180 is about emotionally distancing yourself from the other spouse. It might be (not to make excuses for him) that your husband might already be doing that as well...but in an angry way.

I won't say what he should do, because I am not him and he is not doing it anyway. So...take care of the things which need to be taken care of. Do the whole Scarlett O'Hare thing "I'll be emotional about this tomorrow." 

Take care of the kids, take care of yourself, and get on with life. Maybe he changes. Maybe he doesn't, but at this point, you need to do what you got to do. And increasingly, it does not involve him.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Thank you for that JCD. I'm doing a lot from the list already. I need to work on doing it without anger or resentment. I'm getting better, but still much to work on. 

I'm choosing to live my life. I'm going to be happy, do the best for my girls and move forward. What he chooses to do with his life is now solely in his hands. I won't let him bring me down to his level of misery any longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

He decided to close himself up in his man cave today. The girls & I went to church. I don't even ask him if he's going anymore. My 3 year old asked him why he wasn't going to church, 8 year old chimed in "yeah? Why aren't you going to church Daddy?" His response..."the way you guys have ganged up on me this week? I'll stay home, thanks." Who says that to their little girls? Who manipulates their children that way?

I have a girlfriend coming over to help me carve pumpkins, make dinner, get girls ready for school tomorrow and just play. I'm just venting here now so I can have the happy face at home. Today is my mother-in-laws birthday. H has not acknowledged it...no card, phone call, nothing. His issues with abandonment should really be how HE abandons everyone. 

My back & compressed nerves aren't getting better as much as I had hoped. Have to call tomorrow and get my back specialist to squeeze me in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I haven't been on TAM in awhile and had quite a few PMs asking about an update. 

No, I haven't divorced yet. Yes, I know, ugh!

Husband is currently in school. He has completed one semester of an 18 month LVN nursing program. I've told myself I will stay to get him thru school for my daughters. He literally has nowhere to go and doesn't work enough (by his choice over this last summer break!) to even rent a room. I don't want my daughters to ever be able to say that I abandoned him. And I want them to have the opportunity to have time with him, a place to stay with him, after a divorce.

I spent 8 months (last October to 1st of June) with compressed lumbar nerves & muscle spasms in both legs. I was on crutches or a cane and every day in physical therapy. It really showed me, AGAIN, that I am not in a partnership and cannot depend on him. When I told him that, he said I will never understand what it's like to be him and how seeing me hurt scares him so badly. Ha! So leave everything to me and ensure I don't heal as quickly as possible, right? Of course he promised to be a support to me from then on, but that's what he's said the last 2 times I had pneumonia, every time I'm sick, over & over & over again. I'm very grateful to have an awesome family and close friends who were there for me & my daughters. Everyone was shocked at the anger & contempt I received from dear husband. 

I have replaced the flooring throughout the house and had most repairs taken care of. We are living off my disability and our retirement account. He didn't work near as much as he had opportunity to this last summer. Nowhere near full time since he wasn't in school. I didn't want to get into that account. If I ask him to answer his phone when work calls asking him to cover a shift then all I'm doing is "using him for his paycheck."

I've told him I'm staying this year for the girls, to get him thru school. I've told him I don't trust or respect him, that I married a man who was respectable, trustworthy, ethical, close with his family, had some great friends, and that's not the man here now. He says he made vows and will honor them, unlike me who decides I'm done because he's not perfect. He says that feeling I can't trust him is my own personal unhappiness and insecurity. Yeah...whatever. We live pretty separate lives right now. I ignore him as much as possible, which is coming to a head currently. After all those years of threatening me with divorce or separation claiming we could coparent turns out he "didn't really mean it." He wants to "get back to what we had & what we were doing when we first married." I don't find that to be even remotely possible. He says he wants me to participate and I just don't want to. 

I don't know how this will turn out. He says I'm hurting him daily, and I know I am. I don't know how to do this without hurting him, but I can't see ever falling back in love. It's all very sad. I know what I want & what I want to do, but finances, feeling responsible for him, my daughters....I'm trying to hold on and cause the least amount of damage as possible.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

MsStacy said:


> I haven't been on TAM in awhile and had quite a few PMs asking about an update.
> 
> No, I haven't divorced yet. Yes, I know, ugh!
> 
> ...


I hope you realize that it is unlikely that he will finish that course or even if he does that he will ever be self-supporting, so long as he can remain dependent on you, since that seems to be his modus operandi.

If I were in your position, I would be working out the fastest way to get myself and my children as far as possible from him. Anything else is just going to prolong the agony. And who knows? If you take away his crutch (you), maybe that will get him to stand on his own!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

technovelist said:


> I hope you realize that it is unlikely that he will finish that course or even if he does that he will ever be self-supporting, so long as he can remain dependent on you, since that seems to be his modus operandi.
> 
> If I were in your position, I would be working out the fastest way to get myself and my children as far as possible from him. Anything else is just going to prolong the agony. And who knows? If you take away his crutch (you), maybe that will get him to stand on his own!


YES, this exactly! Now that he knows you are staying until he finishes, he will make sure he never, ever does. You should have kept that tidbit of info to yourself. I hate to say it, but there is NO WAY to go through a divorce and NOT HURT someone. Its part of the price of getting out of a miserable situation and gaining your freedom and peace. It is what it is. He doesn't seem to give a damn about hurting YOU, so try to develop a thicker skin about it. He is a grown man and will be responsible for sinking or swimming all on his own.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MsStacy said:


> No, I haven't divorced yet. Yes, I know, ugh!
> 
> Husband is currently in school. He has completed one semester of an 18 month LVN nursing program. I've told myself I will stay to get him thru school for my daughters. He literally has nowhere to go and doesn't work enough.


How noble of you..... Does he know about your plan to fix up the house and helping him through school so you can dump him later and maximize your child support and assets in the breakup?

You sound very unstable in your rants. Have you considered counseling for yourself? Your hubby may be a bum but I get the strong feeling you are no prize either.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> How noble of you..... Does he know about your plan to fix up the house and helping him through school so you can dump him later and maximize your child support and assets in the breakup?
> 
> You sound very unstable in your rants. Have you considered counseling for yourself? Your hubby may be a bum but I get the strong feeling you are no prize either.


I don't get that idea at all. As a matter of fact, it sounds to me like she is being much too nice to him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

3Xnocharm said:


> YES, this exactly! Now that he knows you are staying until he finishes, he will make sure he never, ever does. You should have kept that tidbit of info to yourself.


My H has had us in $100,000 of debt for the last 10 years - the 10 years I've seriously considered leaving him. And I have very specifically NOT told him that if we weren't in debt I would leave, because I know he would then make sure we don't make enough money to get out of debt.

The REAL solution is to just decide to leave. Stop making excuses. Don't make it about whether the stars align. He KNOWS why you're unhappy and he's unwilling to change.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

technovelist said:


> I hope you realize that it is unlikely that he will finish that course or even if he does that he will ever be self-supporting, so long as he can remain dependent on you, since that seems to be his modus operandi.





3Xnocharm said:


> YES, this exactly! Now that he knows you are staying until he finishes, he will make sure he never, ever does. You should have kept that tidbit of info to yourself. I hate to say it, but there is NO WAY to go through a divorce and NOT HURT someone. Its part of the price of getting out of a miserable situation and gaining your freedom and peace. It is what it is. He doesn't seem to give a damn about hurting YOU, so try to develop a thicker skin about it. He is a grown man and will be responsible for sinking or swimming all on his own.


I totally see this is a very real possibility. If he so much as drops a class, or goes below a 3.0 GPA I will no longer wait. If that is the case, I feel like I would be able to tell my daughters that I supported Daddy and he chose not to support himself. I will not be here if he does not complete this program, that is a promise. House, equity, attorney's advising me to not be the one that leaves the house, him having someplace to go...all that be damned if he doesn't dig himself out of the hole he created. I know this has been a long time in the works, and I should have left before he imploded, but I can wholeheartedly tell you I will not be here a second longer if he doesn't follow thru with this!!

3xnocharm, I realize he will be hurt. I don't expect to get out of this without hurting him at all. It bothers me less and less as the days go by, which is a pretty sorry statement. I feel like he is a self-fulfilling prophecy, yet it's all my fault. The really sad thing is, I feel for him as a person, as a father to my children, but not as a husband and that has been for way too long now.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

BetrayedDad said:


> How noble of you..... Does he know about your plan to fix up the house and helping him through school so you can dump him later and maximize your child support and assets in the breakup?
> 
> You sound very unstable in your rants. Have you considered counseling for yourself? Your hubby may be a bum but I get the strong feeling you are no prize either.


I have never tried to be noble. Yes, he knows that fixing the house was to maximize return if we end up selling. I told him point blank that I am only staying because he is in no place financially to get out on his own, let alone get into a situation where he could have his daughters spend time with him...overnight, over a weekend, etc. Even when he does get thru this program, I absolutely do not expect him to make any more money than it will cost himself to live. I am not looking for him to help support his daughters. He hasn't found that to be a priority in the last 4 years and I don't understand why you think I believe that will change. Would I like to maximize my assets in a divorce? Of Course! We both have worked very hard for the last 20+ years to have these assets!! He is pissing them away as we speak. Truthfully, the only reason he has assets is because of me. When we married he had liens from the IRS, personal loans gone to collections, a vehicle that was years out of registration yet he was still driving it (without insurance!). He wasn't even living check to check. Obviously that all was a red flag but I didn't pay attention. Because of me we have a house and a good amount of equity in it, we HAD 2 retirement accounts (only a portion of one left currently), our vehicles are paid off, we have no credit debt. Unless you really have the true information, don't even try to accuse me of taking him to the cleaners, maximizing the child support (is that even possible? Is HE not responsible for his children just as much as I am???), or looking out for the financial interests of myself and my children. If you need background on the true story or who may be unstable....Please see my previous posts over the years, it's available for you in my profile statistics!


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

turnera said:


> My H has had us in $100,000 of debt for the last 10 years - the 10 years I've seriously considered leaving him. And I have very specifically NOT told him that if we weren't in debt I would leave, because I know he would then make sure we don't make enough money to get out of debt.
> 
> The REAL solution is to just decide to leave. Stop making excuses. Don't make it about whether the stars align. He KNOWS why you're unhappy and he's unwilling to change.


You are always the voice of reason. I'm not waiting for the stars to align. I'm allowing him to get on his feet (and he has been making his school a priority). I will not wait more than the year to graduate, or if he stalls/stops/screws up before then....I'm out. This is not a heads up so he can do nothing and keep the status quo. Promise.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

technovelist said:


> I don't get that idea at all. As a matter of fact, it sounds to me like she is being much too nice to him.


That's the problem. With her being so nice, does he REALLY know what's going on? 

They are going on getaways together and having sex. Yes, she has expressed unhappiness and I'm sure he has too. Does this guy know he's about to get blindsided by a divorce? That's the part that's troubling. 

We're only getting one side of the story but assume it's 100% true and he's a jackass... Doesn't he still deserve the truth today rather than all this plotting and scheming that seems to be going on for tomorrow?

OP if your husband is well aware of your intentions then I apologize. If not then you should be apologizing to him. No one deserves a knife in the back. Be the better person.


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

BetrayedDad said:


> That's the problem. With her being so nice, does he REALLY know what's going on?
> 
> They are going on getaways together and having sex. Yes, she has expressed unhappiness and I'm sure he has too. Does this guy know he's about to get blindsided by a divorce? That's the part that's troubling.
> 
> ...


I assume you're talking about the getaway from almost a year ago. Yes, I booked it...in part because I really wanted to see the comedian we once used to watch and go to shows together and with friends (something we used to have in common) and in part I wanted to see if we could even have fun together. He started the trip off telling me our problems were my fault, picking at me for doing this, that or the other...it turned out to be ok, but did I have a fun 48 hour getaway for the first time in 3 years without our children? NO. Bottom line is my husband is not a happy person. He is not happy within himself and therefor is not happy anywhere. 

I cannot tell you what my husband is "well aware" of. I have told him point blank...I am here for the next year to get him through school for our daughters, so he can provide for himself and they will have a place to call home with him. One year. I told him those exact words. What he hears, and what he interprets it to "really mean" is no longer my responsibility. He is a master at turning my words upside down and inside out and of telling me what I am "really saying". I cannot say it any more plain than I have.

I don't expect my side to be taken as 100% true. We all have bias. We feel slighted on both sides of the marriage. I am definitely not putting 100% of the break down of our marriage at his feet. I try to give my side, being fair but true. I have told him time after time after time that I do not blame him solely. I know my flaws and I have always acknowledged them.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MsStacy said:


> I cannot tell you what my husband is "well aware" of. I have told him point blank...I am here for the next year to get him through school for our daughters, so he can provide for himself and they will have a place to call home with him. One year. I told him those exact words. What he hears, and what he interprets it to "really mean" is no longer my responsibility. He is a master at turning my words upside down and inside out and of telling me what I am "really saying". I cannot say it any more plain than I have.


Then prove it to him. You say he has one year? Then file the divorce NOW, that way by the time schools done, you will be single. That way he is crystal clear on your intentions and when this "year" is up you don't have to wait even longer in court. You can just walk away free. That's your plan right? Then stop talking about what you think he is well aware of and execute it. Being served some divorce papers will clear up any confusion he might be having. You and I both know he not on board with this. He's still your husband so yes it is your responsibility to make him fully aware that HIS marriage is ending.

Good luck to you.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

I agree with BetrayedDad's posts, fwiw.

There's a lack of integrity in blindsiding someone this way... selfish and bizarre justification for "helping" him. Unless there is reason for her to be afraid for her life, say in a case of abuse, which it seems this is not.

Perhaps this is just someone addicted to the drama of the idea of divorce?

In any case, what goes around comes around...


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

BetrayedDad said:


> Then prove it to him. You say he has one year? Then file the divorce NOW, that way by the time schools done, you will be single. That way he is crystal clear on your intentions and when this "year" is up you don't have to wait even longer in court. You can just walk away free. That's your plan right? Then stop talking about what you think he is well aware of and execute it. Being served some divorce papers will clear up any confusion he might be having. You and I both know he not on board with this. He's still your husband so yes it is your responsibility to make him fully aware that HIS marriage is ending.
> 
> Good luck to you.


Oh my goodness. I don't know if you get it, or if I am really missing something. I don't trust that my husband would follow thru with anything if I filed now. He is the king of calling in sick, taking time out for himself, needing time off, and just general all-around not follow through with anything. THAT is the reason I'm trying to stick out the next year...to get him thru school. We live in California, on the coast where the cost of living is higher than anywhere in the nation. Yes, I know we could move somewhere more affordable, but in case you didn't know, I have had 3 back surgeries, on disability, and I need help. My parents, family, friends, support network is here. So I could move where it's more affordable but be worse off than I am now. In trying to support him into getting into a sustaining career again, I can keep him here for my children. There is a greater plan than what is best/easiest/cheaper right now. I'm no longer looking out for what is best for him. I am looking out for what is best for my daughters, if he will actually follow through then he gets to benefit too! If I were to file for divorce now, the way that my husband is naturally, he would fall into a self-pity hole and not complete his degree. And of course it would all be my fault because I blew his family up and wasn't supportive.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

So you aren't working either? Do you have a career to sustain yourself post-divorce?


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

sapientia said:


> There's a lack of integrity in blindsiding someone this way... selfish and bizarre justification for "helping" him. Unless there is reason for her to be afraid for her life, say in a case of abuse, which it seems this is not.
> 
> Perhaps this is just someone addicted to the drama of the idea of divorce?
> 
> In any case, what goes around comes around...





sapientia said:


> So you aren't working either? Do you have a career to sustain yourself post-divorce?


I don't see at all how I am "blindsiding". I told him I am not happy. He has lied to me, put my health in jeopardy, lied and lost his 18 year career, cut his own family out of his life, cut his best friend...all friends...out of his life, been rude & disrespectful to my family...I have told him point blank I am here for the next year to get him through school so he can be on his feet again (from the F'ups of his own doing!!) and be able to care for our daughters. How in the world is that BLINDSIDING him????

Yes, what goes around comes around. I've been more than patient, kind, loving, generous and I'm STILL the only one worried about his relationships with his daughters!



I am on permanent disability. I worked myself into the ground and ended up screwing my back up big time. My state has deemed me 94% unemployable due to my injuries and the resulting complications. I would be out doing anything I could, if physically possible, in order to support my family. I am not after his money, his paycheck, his anything. I think being here for the last four years since he has done next to nothing would prove that. I have cut every luxury, pinched pennies, gone without, my children have gone without...while he won't even answer the phone or work even close to 40 hours a week. I do more in the home and for my daughters than my doctor advises. Which led me to 8 months of complications, muscle spasms, hospitalization, and just simple pure pain from October to June. What did my husband do? He got pissed off at me because I was hurting more than normal. I am not a sit back and live off the man's paycheck. Maybe ask a simple question...no, I am not working right now. I am on disability. And I would change that in a split heartbeat if I could!!


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Well, in a separation agreement, you can simply set a clause that offers him support for a year explicitly for him to finish school. This way, he knows exactly where he stands and that his clock is ticking. No divorce blindside.

He's an adult, not your child. Post divorce, he will have to assume this responsibility anyway, so best encourage him to get on with it.

Some people, however, thrive on being the "helper". A female version of "shining knight syndrome", where in the guise of "help" someone is actually enabling a co-dependent relationship. Hopefully that's not your case, as such people find they are rather lost when their object of "help" grows their wings and learns to fly.

Wishing you good luck and a speedy recovery.

- Sapi


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I am in no way trying to save him. I'm long over that delusion. I'm sitting on this next year to get him thru school and to get my daughters a year older. I don't know if older is better, but I can only go by how I feel they are doing right now. I don't want to teach them this is what a marriage looks like. I am my no means the female version of a knight in shining armor for my husband. He knows where I stand. He throws our vows in my face to show he is the bigger person, but I feel he violated those vows 10+ years ago when he started lying to me and taking my necessary pain medications for his recreational "stress" benefit. His own mother told me he is a pathological liar...I should have listened to her and not him. 

Finances will get even tighter when we separate and divorce. I'm trying to put away all I can right now and for the next year because I know I cannot depend on him and my daughters will be my responsibility. Of course I want to give them everything. And if I have to set my life aside for a year, give them the house, home, lifestyle, school district, anything I can...then that's what I will do. I should've been out a few years ago before he tanked everything, but I was totally BLINDSIDED that he would lie about a stupid & inconsequential thing at work and then get fired after 18+ years on the job. I was blindsided that I had a trustworthy, respectful and ethical partner.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Wow, that's some story. Well, sometimes all you can do is stay the course and then get out.

What will you do, however, if he drops the ball yet again and doesn't finish school? This could drag out indefinitely...


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## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

If he drops the ball & doesn't finish school then the house is up for sale & I'm out. I could move in with my parents today. They're ready for me if necessary because they see how it is. They also understand my year timeline to shore myself up the best I can. I have multiple family members & even friends who have said my girls & I could move in if we needed. He doesn't have a single family member or friend where he could crash on the couch. 
I'm really not here to badmouth or blame him. I have responsibility in this too. Telling me I'm blindsiding him, sticking a knife in him, not telling him where I stand...it all kinda hit me the wrong way, totally not the case. I was simply trying to address & update all at once the people who had pm'd me for an update.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Stacey. Sounds like you've got it under control. All the best to you and your family.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I had hoped when I saw your thread that you were updating because you were finally divorced and you and the girls were happy in your new life.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I understand your dilemma. Some posters do not understand the whole scope that you are not dealing with someone who behaves rationally. I am surprised you were that forthright with him given his behavior. With someone like that, he would try manipulating you in return by making it all your fault like he did. I am not surprised that he twist logic and makes his poor behavior your responsibility. He cannot recognize that his actions affect your feelings towards him. But then again, it is easier to blame than look in the mirror first.

Even though it is a long shot about him stepping up to the plate to be at least a decent father since he sabotage all his other relationships, chances are his attitude and personality will turn off your daughters as well. Sorry to say, but you are not responsible for maintaining and managing his relationship with his daughter, he is.

Can you train for another job. During my high school years, I did tagline and stuff for accounts on ebay for about $500 a week.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

There is no reason to delay filing. And no reason either of you has to leave the house if finances won't permit. Plenty of couples live separately under the same roof while waiting for the divorce to chug along. Sounds like you're pretty much already doing that now anyway.

Divorces take a long time. You should get the ball rolling now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrRock (Jul 9, 2015)

Sorry to hear about your situation!

Your story reminds me of mine, i too keep putting off divorce for this, or for that, and here i am 10 years later still finding reasons to not end it. Mine is slightly different in that my wife is the injured one, and her inablity to care for and support herself has kept me here....or so i keep telling myself.

Personally i think there is nothing wrong with setting a goal, and waiting for the right time to end it....just don't be like me, stick to your plan and get on with your life. Your a strong perosn who faces more pain and hardship everyday than most do in a lifetime, use that strength to make the most of your life!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> There is no reason to delay filing. And no reason either of you has to leave the house if finances won't permit. Plenty of couples live separately under the same roof while waiting for the divorce to chug along. Sounds like you're pretty much already doing that now anyway.
> 
> Divorces take a long time. You should get the ball rolling now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This. So very much this.

I have been there. Long story, but my ex was a real piece of work. Pathological liar, extremely financially irresponsible, etc. Two kids, but mine were six and one year old. Low funds.

I even tried to warn him of the impending divorce and give him a year to get his **** straight.

He didn't do anything. Usual bs. He did the same bare minimum re: work/education and very occasionally make a show of helping with house and kids, but nothing really changed for more than a minute.

Truth is, he didn't take me seriously because I had been saying it for years and hadn't filed yet. He had no reason to think I ever would. That's why people keep saying you're blindsiding him. Because you have threatened and you have made statements, but you haven't DONE anything. To your H, divorce papers might actually be a shock.

By going on like this, you aren't doing anyone any good. It's past time. File now. Legally ending the marriage doesn't mean you have to change the living arrangement. You can still offer room and board while he's in college.

Besides, being handed divorce papers might wake him up. He might be motivated to work and move out sooner. I know a 19 year old who was working full time and taking an accelerated RN course while living on her own. No reason he couldn't work and go to school. Millions of every age group do it every day here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

MsStacy said:


> I cannot tell you what my husband is "well aware" of. I have told him point blank...I am here for the next year to get him through school for our daughters, so he can provide for himself and they will have a place to call home with him. One year. I told him those exact words. What he hears, and what he interprets it to "really mean" is no longer my responsibility. He is a master at turning my words upside down and inside out and of telling me what I am "really saying". I cannot say it any more plain than I have.


So if he is well aware that you are planning your exit strategy, why would filing for D while still in house together be a problem?



MsStacy said:


> I have never tried to be noble. Yes, he knows that fixing the house was to maximize return if we end up selling. I told him point blank that I am only staying because he is in no place financially to get out on his own, let alone get into a situation where he could have his daughters spend time with him...overnight, over a weekend, etc. Even when he does get thru this program, I absolutely do not expect him to make any more money than it will cost himself to live. I am not looking for him to help support his daughters. He hasn't found that to be a priority in the last 4 years and I don't understand why you think I believe that will change. Would I like to maximize my assets in a divorce? Of Course! We both have worked very hard for the last 20+ years to have these assets!! He is pissing them away as we speak. Truthfully, the only reason he has assets is because of me. When we married he had liens from the IRS, personal loans gone to collections, a vehicle that was years out of registration yet he was still driving it (without insurance!). He wasn't even living check to check. Obviously that all was a red flag but I didn't pay attention. Because of me we have a house and a good amount of equity in it, we HAD 2 retirement accounts (only a portion of one left currently), our vehicles are paid off, we have no credit debt. Unless you really have the true information, don't even try to accuse me of taking him to the cleaners, maximizing the child support (is that even possible? Is HE not responsible for his children just as much as I am???), or looking out for the financial interests of myself and my children. If you need background on the true story or who may be unstable....Please see my previous posts over the years, it's available for you in my profile statistics!


Sounds like the most opportune time to make separation viable to me...



MsStacy said:


> Oh my goodness. I don't know if you get it, or if I am really missing something. I don't trust that my husband would follow thru with anything if I filed now. He is the king of calling in sick, taking time out for himself, needing time off, and just general all-around not follow through with anything. THAT is the reason I'm trying to stick out the next year...to get him thru school. We live in California, on the coast where the cost of living is higher than anywhere in the nation. Yes, I know we could move somewhere more affordable, but in case you didn't know, I have had 3 back surgeries, on disability, and I need help. My parents, family, friends, support network is here. So I could move where it's more affordable but be worse off than I am now. In trying to support him into getting into a sustaining career again, I can keep him here for my children. There is a greater plan than what is best/easiest/cheaper right now. I'm no longer looking out for what is best for him. I am looking out for what is best for my daughters, if he will actually follow through then he gets to benefit too! If I were to file for divorce now, the way that my husband is naturally, he would fall into a self-pity hole and not complete his degree. And of course it would all be my fault because I blew his family up and wasn't supportive.


But wait, I thought you have been completely straight with him?? Or are you expecting/hoping that he doesn't believe you so that you can delay/procrastinate on this decision without having to actually follow through with it?



MsStacy said:


> If he drops the ball & doesn't finish school then the house is up for sale & I'm out. I could move in with my parents today. They're ready for me if necessary because they see how it is. They also understand my year timeline to shore myself up the best I can. I have multiple family members & even friends who have said my girls & I could move in if we needed. He doesn't have a single family member or friend where he could crash on the couch.
> I'm really not here to badmouth or blame him. I have responsibility in this too. Telling me I'm blindsiding him, sticking a knife in him, not telling him where I stand...it all kinda hit me the wrong way, totally not the case. I was simply trying to address & update all at once the people who had pm'd me for an update.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you can move in with your parents today, then do it - separation is so much easier when you are not stuck in the same house.

You are exacerbating your problems by not following through at all with your intentions. You say you are well prepared now for that eventuality, and I believe you because you've clearly covered all your bases... so when are you going to actually take action?


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Well, one clear advantage in waiting would be that if he does get a decent job that she can claim spousal support when she does file...

From this perspective, there is something to gain but not much to lose by waiting.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

sapientia said:


> Well, one clear advantage in waiting would be that if he does get a decent job that she can claim spousal support when she does file...
> 
> From this perspective, there is something to gain but not much to lose by waiting.


Yep, basically sounds like she's biding her time while he gets his degree so the judge can impute a higher support payment. But if her H is as fragile/unreliable as she makes him to be it's still a long shot which she is willingly betting on for no good reason.


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