# When they say they have come clean, how do you know?



## AnotherAnon (Jul 10, 2014)

Having an EA is lying by omission, right? It's sneaky. So when you find out, or they come clean, but swear that:

It was the only one.
It never got physical.
They have never lied about anything else.

How do you know? Do you trust your gut? 

Basically, in order to save our marriage, H and I need to get past something that happened back when we were dating, but that I didn't find out about until we were 4 years into our marriage and already trying to have kids. To make a long story short, we had a long-distance relationship for a time and said we would NOT date others while we figured out where our relationship was going. I didn't date at all or even so much as talk to another man. Meanwhile, he let a co-worker set him up on a blind date and then later developed feelings for a female co-worker, even going so far as to email friends about it. (Which is, of course, how I found out.) As I said, it was years before I found out.

Even though it was a long time ago and he's great in every other way, I just have some major trust issues. My Dad cheated on my Mom so I'm sure that "damaged" me. I was also then raised by my Mom to believe men are mostly useless and untrustworthy. This is why I feel I cannot simply trust my gut, because all those tapes are playing in my head from my childhood.

H continues to say that he simply fell victim to the circumstances all those years ago when he went on the date and had the almost-EA, or whatever it was. That since it all ended and we stayed together and got married it was all OK. He admits he has the problems listed out in "No More Mr. Nice Guy", including lying to stay out of trouble and appear to be so nice and wonderful. 

So, what do people like us do to rebuild trust in this situation? I feel like I must keep pressing him to admit more happened, like I will only believe him if the story has more to it? Is that paranoia or realism?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

If you weren't married, weren't under a marriage contract, and you had agreed to date others, I don't see the problem.


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## AnotherAnon (Jul 10, 2014)

I said we agreed to NOT date others. Sorry if that was confusing. We agreed we were still in a complete and monogamous relationship, but that was LD due to other circumstances.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

Howdy Anon:

The short answer is you won’t. But the past is to learn from not to live in. And if you approach life with preconceived notions such as “men are mostly useless and untrustworthy” – well that is generally what you’re going to find. The talk doctors call that a “self-fulfilling prophecy”; for me, I refer you back to the second sentence of my response.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Many will say the WS will only admit to what the BS knows. In my experience, I tend to believe that is true.

I don't know that there is any way you can be sure you've been told everything. Lie detector? Some will say you can get a parking lot confession because the WS is so nerve wracked at the idea of the lie detector revealing more deceit. I personally never had my WS do that but have read about it here.

Others are satisfied they know enough and I fall into that camp. 

Are you sure your WS didn't continue with cheating even after you married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnotherAnon (Jul 10, 2014)

Thank you, all. I have tried very hard to get away from my mother's notions of men. 

I would say I am 99% sure he did not continue to cheat. First, I just don't get that sense unless he is VERY good at hiding things. We had a really good relationship until we were dragged down by young kids, typical job and financial worries, and the like.

Also, I handle all the bills and credit cards and I don't see how he would have funds to do anything with another woman? There are no mysterious charges for hotels, meals, etc. I do know that the very crafty would find a way around that. And, I don't see how he has time. 

The 1% of me that is not convinced is the voice that says, "If he was dishonest once...."

So, most likely nothing else has happened. I just feel like I have no idea what is in his head, his heart. It's very lonely. And mainly I feel I really need the whole story on what happened with those two women during the LD year. It seems to easy that he only cops to what I can prove. I'm not surprised to hear that is usually the case. Human nature.

It's been a while since we last discussed it. I have a photographic memory for details and sequences. He does not. So, I could ask for the story again and see if it is the same or not.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

My WS didn't have much in the way of funds either (at least what i didnt know about). 

Regardless, she still got the money, only she said it was for other purposes. Like "I'm going out with friends" boom, there's the cover for where the money went to. "I'm going to visit, @#!, i'll be back in a few hours." 

I never once actually called and checked on her, because I believed her. 

How do you *know* there's nothing more? You don't, and honestly it probably makes more sense to believe that they'll forever hide things they think might be hurtful to you (or because they fear discovery).

Regardless, it's wise to not believe a liar and to always doubt what they say. This makes a relationship hard, but then, infidelity does that.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

SpinDaddy said:


> Howdy Anon:
> 
> The short answer is you won’t. But the past is to learn from not to live in. And if you approach life with preconceived notions such as “men are mostly useless and untrustworthy” – well that is generally what you’re going to find. The talk doctors call that a “self-fulfilling prophecy”; for me, I refer you back to the second sentence of my response.


Holy crap do I do A LOT of self-fulfilling prophesying and I hear that a lot at therapy.. Again there are times I am good and then there are times the crazy takes control.

But like SpinDaddy says and I completely agree, You won't..

I've been through 3 reconciliations with my Ex wife before the final 4th one. 

Eventually it just goes away if you seek proper treatment and advice.. There just comes a point where you look at the person next to you and realize they are there for you or at least accept. 

I flip through a million variations each time over my failed marriage.. Sometimes I say I never wish we would have met regardless of kids, then I say I wish I would have left sooner.. 

Today with everything I have been through I say everything went the way it was suppose to. I learned from each instance I just didn't see it then. 

Though I am divorced and I am contradicting what I am saying.. There just came a time for me when I said "She is with me, She is with me forever".. 

Granted now I'm doing the what if's. But that is a personal issue as I am a bit broken inside and just trying to fix myself. But I am getting better, because I think I get good advice from someone who is looking to help me out.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

AnotherAnon said:


> Thank you, all. I have tried very hard to get away from my mother's notions of men.


just read a few threads here from betrayed husbands and then you'll feel the same way about both sexes!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

One thing I will say is that marriages need daily togetherness to survive. Not to condone anything he did, but to compare what you have today (a marriage with children) to a long distance dating relationship... This is apples and oranges. To blanketly say he is untrustworthy based on something he did while you were dating and physically separated, versus a man who married you and made that committment, I don't think that's fair. And, if you are unsure about your man or your marriage, stop trying to have kids.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

What if there was nothing more than what he told you?
What if there were really some things hidden from you?


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## AnotherAnon (Jul 10, 2014)

Hicks, you are right. That's kind of what he said when it first came out. To give a timeline, the LD year with the dating of two women was 14 years ago. We got married 11 years ago and were trying to have kids as of 8 years ago. We were in the middle of fertility treatments when I found the emails.

So, yes, the right and smart thing to do would have been to either make a decision to leave, or stay and let it go. I didn't do either. I was already over 30 and now had medical proof it would be difficult for me to become a mother, which I wanted so desperately. I knew I did not have time to start over with someone else and ever have kids. Stupid, and not fair to the kids, I know. 

But, I told myself, at the time, that it wasn't really cheating, it was during a hard year and a weird time, and lots of time went by during which he did prove his commitment. I suppose he is still proving his commitment. 

I really think it's the nagging thing about what really happened and what I know. If the original conversation had gone something like, "Yes, the emails are true, I did _____. Also, there was ___ amount of physical involvement." Then I would have been hurt and upset (which I already was anyway), but at least felt like he revealed something I didn't know and truly came clean. But that is not what happened.

Now, I suppose the crazy tunnel goes further....If he had said more than I knew, where would it stop? Would I always think he was withholding just one more detail?

Thank you, this has really helped me process this all out. I think instead of re-hashing this one really old event, I need to make some other feelings known to him. Just general stuff about how he acts when the chips are down, how it makes me feel.


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## Laurel (Oct 14, 2013)

AnotherAnon said:


> Thank you, all. I have tried very hard to get away from my mother's notions of men.
> 
> I would say I am 99% sure he did not continue to cheat. First, I just don't get that sense unless he is VERY good at hiding things. We had a really good relationship until we were dragged down by young kids, typical job and financial worries, and the like.
> 
> ...


Sadly, there is no way to know for sure. You have to look at the overall situation and determine based upon everything you know to be true, whether the explanations are plausible or not. In my case, my WH came clean about things I didn't know about and went into detail about things that made him look horrible. That is how I came to the conclusion that he was telling me the truth. Was it the whole truth? I will never know. But I have chosen to believe so and have moved forward. 

Anyway, I would try to calmly explain everything you have stated here about your feelings to him without being careful not to be accusatory or hostile. Is he open and willing to talk when you bring the subject up?


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Have you ever had a dog get sprayed by a skunk? If you have then you know you can wash that dog 10 times think the smell is all gone only to find out it's back to the tub for your pup.
You try different soaps (ask different questions) tomato juice(investigate, investigate, investigate) but it takes along time to finally get rid of that smell, unfortunately many times that smell can linger no matter what you do you just have to live with it.
Then that damn dog goes out and gets sprayed again nothing left then but take that dog to the pound.

Woof


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So long as he claims he fell victim you will never trust him.


He made choices. He took Acton. He planned deception. He enacted deception. And he hid it for years.

I would never trust him either.


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## Riley_Z (Jan 29, 2014)

The way you find out the truth is the best way to know if there's more hiding out there.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

AA, welcome aboard.

Trust can come back with time. As you experience him being truthful, you will learn to trust him. He will again become worthy of your trust.

You might want to read the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring, and then consider asking him to read it. The book addresses both sides of the infidelity coin, the betrayed and the betrayer. It will be interesting for you to read, and I hope it will be eye-opening and life changing for him to read.

You feel betrayed even though the apparent transgression was relatively minor. Especially when viewed against all your years together, his brief dating is a minor blip. The real problem is the dishonesty, and that there is the root of the problem in all forms of infidelity. So you have to treat your emotional trauma just as if you found out he had some kind of torrid affair last winter. And he has to realize that for you it is that kind of emotional trauma.

If you know of a good marriage counselor who doesn't avoid dealing with infidelity head on, it may be a good venue to have safe discussions with your husband.

Primarily he probably needs to feel safe in revealing everything to you. He may feel like a scumbag, and he may be very embarrassed. He may also fear your anger and that you might leave if you know the truth.

So you have to convince him that the problem is his lack of full disclosure, and that the solution is his full cooperation. You have to be ready to hear whatever he says and not punish him for it.

I think an approach I might take is to sit him down and explain that the breach of trust has caused damage which you cannot heal by yourself, and you need his help in getting over this. (this makes it your issue, and he may be inclined to want to help you). If you read the book "After the Affair" you will have some ideas on what to say to him. Then, tell him that you love him and you value your marriage, and you feel you have had a great marriage with him. What he did when you were dating is not going to erase or outweigh the good marriage you've had for years. Really what you need is to just get this put behind you.

Then you tell him that he has a free pass or a get-out-of-jail-free card on whatever has happened in the past. You don't care what he did, you care that he is fully and openly honest with you. Thus you are asking him to please tell you everything.

And I would have some questions written down for him. Tell him he has a week to scour his brain and come up with answers not only to the questions but to put the entire story together. And if there is anything else out there that he has avoided telling you about, now is the time to tell you without fear of repercussions.

To balance out the carrot you just dangled, follow it up with the stick. Tell him that anything which he doesn't tell you about but which you find out about elsewhere will mean you may not be able to continue with the marriage. A lie or deception is far worse than the content of the lie or deception.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You can never really _*know*_; _you can only *believe*_.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

ReidWright said:


> just read a few threads here from betrayed husbands and then you'll feel the same way about both sexes!


Amen. I do hope Anon will scroll thru a few pages here. This forum is very well represented by men that were faithful, honest, and true but were cheated on by wives that constantly wanted more.

As for this situation, it is one of those times when you have to cease to revisit things that came before your vows. He was not your husband at that time. 

What has the man you married been like? Concentrate your focus there.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't understand the concept of you must be ready to hear what every has to disclose and not punish in Florida. Because guess what he tells you is a game changer and you want to leave then thats what you should do.

meeting to know the truth so you can move forward its just that its the decision to move forward. It's not necessarily the decision to move forward the wayward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Thor said:


> AA, welcome aboard.
> 
> Trust can come back with time. As you experience him being truthful, you will learn to trust him. He will again become worthy of your trust.
> 
> ...



While I don't disagree with you that trust needs to be restored, I think you have to be careful not to be too over the top with this. Remember that this was before they were married or even engaged to be married.

It was during a long distance portion of their relationship many years ago. I just think one has to be careful to not come across as "crazy" and "obsessive compulsive" about the issue.

All of this would be prudent if it happened while they were married but they were not at the time. In fact, OP stated that they were still trying to determine the nature of their relationship and if they were going to be serious or not. So while it was wrong what he did, and certainly deceitful, it's not as if it was some sort of unforgivable behavior.

I think we can assume that both were still rather young when all this happened as well, given the time line the OP has mentioned, which should make it even easier to move past. We all did a lot of thoughtless, foolish things in our early 20s.  As long as he's not that guy today, then I say just do your best to leave this in the past and move forward.


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