# Wives, would this bother you?



## SurpriseMyself

My H doesn't really pay attention when we are talking. I've brought this up many times, how I talk to the back of his head since he likes to do other things while "listening" to me.

It's been an issue between us for years. Today, for example, I'm 20 seconds into a story about work and he starts going through the mail, opening and reading the letters and bills.

Am I unreasonable to expect him to pay attention? I had barely started talking. When he does this, I now say "never mind." He just acts like I'm asking too much. It's Friday afternoon, we are both just home from work and nothing pressing for the evening. He's now sitting on the sofa watching TV.


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## EleGirl

Your husband is rude. 

Does he talk to you much? For example does he tell you about things that go on at his work?


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## SurpriseMyself

EleGirl said:


> Your husband is rude.
> 
> Does he talk to you much? For example does he tell you about things that go on at his work?


He does. And I listen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog

It is very rude of him. But are you saying things of relevance to him?


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## EleGirl

SurpriseMyself said:


> He does. And I listen.


Have you considered treating him in the same manner as he treats you? Sometimes that makes the point.


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## SurpriseMyself

EleGirl said:


> Have you considered treating him in the same manner as he treats you? Sometimes that makes the point.


He would be fine with it. We can go hours without speaking, just navigating around each other and not so much as making eye contact and he doesn't see anything abnormal in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous

> A*m I unreasonable to expect him to pay attention? I had barely started talking. *When he does this, I now say "never mind." He just acts like I'm asking too much. It's Friday afternoon, we are both just home from work and nothing pressing for the evening. He's now sitting on the sofa watching TV.


No! you are not unreasonable...

Yes ! It would bother me tremendously.. I'd feel pushed aside, not important.. it would cause me to steam (and sometimes ROLL) and be sad.. a range of emotions...

When you say "Never mind" ..if he was clued into your feelings, sensitive to them.. he would catch this.. stop and correct himself... give that attention.. 



> He would be fine with it. We can go hours without speaking, just navigating around each other and not so much as making eye contact and he doesn't see anything abnormal in it.


 Is he like this with everyone.. family, friends, co -workers also?


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## 4x4

Have you discussed this with him in a direct manner? What was his response?


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## EleGirl

SurpriseMyself said:


> He would be fine with it. We can go hours without speaking, just navigating around each other and not so much as making eye contact and he doesn't see anything abnormal in it.


So if he walked up to you and started talking, he would be ok with you ignoring him, turning your back on him and either walking away or you doing something and not listen to him?

That's different from him just not talking much.. .that's you being clearly disrespectful and turning your back on him.


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## kristin2349

I think that is rude, and yes it would bother me. My Ex did that quite often, yet somehow he expected undivided attention from me.


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## SurpriseMyself

4x4 said:


> Have you discussed this with him in a direct manner? What was his response?


He says he can pay attention to what I'm saying and do something else at the same time. He gets defensive if I tell him how it makes me feel. It's been going on for years, he knows how much it bothers me, but that doesn't change his behavior.

At least I know I'm not alone in how I feel.

The irony is that one of the main reasons I married him was because he used to be a good listener. He got comfortable when we got married and now behaves like his true self.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurpriseMyself

EleGirl said:


> So if he walked up to you and started talking, he would be ok with you ignoring him, turning your back on him and either walking away or you doing something and not listen to him?
> 
> That's different from him just not talking much.. .that's you being clearly disrespectful and turning your back on him.


He doesn't see it as disrespectful, so it wouldn't do any good to do it to him. He's fine with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jmiller2020

What's sad about this is that he can see how much it bothers you and he doesn't try and adjust how he listens (even a little).

In marriage we are always going to have views and behaviors that we don't see eye to eye on but at the end of the day, as a partner you hear your partner when something truly bothers them and out of love and respect try and be sensitive to their feelings.

Personally it would drive my absolutely insane!

Two questions come to mind:
1. How did he see his parents interact when they communicated?

That may explain his firm stance that it's totally normal.

2. Has he heard too much about work or common topics that you try and share with him?

Just curious if he either feels tapped out of that topic or how he feels when you share certain topics.


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## 4x4

You can't change him, only yourself. I'd stop talking to him unless you have his undivided attention, stop mid-sentence if you have too and walk away. If he asks, tell him calmly you're not interested in talking to him without his attention anymore and then go about your business. Time to turn up the temperature. He needs to decide for himself to change his behavior.


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## Woodchuck

My wife has a low somewhat raspy voice...It is kind of sexy, but dosn't stand up well when the A.C., and T.V. are on, and she is in the kitchen facing the other way....It sometimes takes me 3-4 words to realize she is speaking, hit mute, and try to get up to speed with the convo... And it pi$$es her off....:wtf:,


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## soccermom2three

My husband can be the same way. That's why anything important he needs to know, like events, dates and times, I send him over text or through our synced calendars. That way he can't tell me I didn't tell him.


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## Holland

spotthedeaddog said:


> It is very rude of him. But are you saying things of relevance to him?


It should not matter what a partner is talking about, if someone cannot give you a few minute of attention then that is a very sad place to be.

OP it is rude and passive aggressive. Yes it would bother me.


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## SurpriseMyself

Holland said:


> It should not matter what a partner is talking about, if someone cannot give you a few minute of attention then that is a very sad place to be.
> 
> OP it is rude and passive aggressive. Yes it would bother me.


It is a sad place to be. And worse that I cannot convince him that people should actually look at one another while having a conversation. He would insist that he's being neither rude not passive aggressive, so I can't convince him.

Still, I just wanted to hear from other women how you would feel. When you are told again and again that what you see isn't meant rude when you just feel so dismissed, eventually you start to second guess yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy999

SurpriseMyself said:


> Today, for example, I'm 20 seconds into a story about work and he starts going through the mail, opening and reading the letters and bills.


This is extremely rude and dismissive. You can't listen and read at the same time. Well, maybe you can, but you can't absorb both things adequately. It would make me feel like I didn't matter one whit to him.

Next time, pick up a book or start giving your phone your undivided attention.


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## Cecezakat

I understand the feeling. Sometimes my husband did the same thing and then I read about it by chance in a relationship book. Some men feel very fidgety and uncomfortable listening to an emotion based conversation or to a wife where they have had overwhelming emotional discussions that stressed them out. The solution is to talk to your husband while he is physically occupied such as driving the car or going on a walk with you. If you have noticed that he listens better when he is driving you for example then this could be all the problem is with him. Also avoid 'harsh start-ups' where you suddenly spring a conversation on him with no easing into it slowly. An example would be bursting into the room and talking at him, going from silent to talking in a shocking way. 

If he used to be a good listener then he seems to be expressing discomfort at having to listen to you. That nervousness is let out by diverting some attention elsewhere and letting it out physically too. He may have had bad experiences talking with you where he felt overwhelmed and now has a tiny bit of anxiety when you start talking, not knowing if that conversation will overwhelm him too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurpriseMyself

Cecezakat said:


> I understand the feeling. Sometimes my husband did the same thing and then I read about it by chance in a relationship book. Some men feel very fidgety and uncomfortable listening to an emotion based conversation or to a wife where they have had overwhelming emotional discussions that stressed them out. The solution is to talk to your husband while he is physically occupied such as driving the car or going on a walk with you. If you have noticed that he listens better when he is driving you for example then this could be all the problem is with him. Also avoid 'harsh start-ups' where you suddenly spring a conversation on him with no easing into it slowly. An example would be bursting into the room and talking at him, going from silent to talking in a shocking way.
> 
> If he used to be a good listener then he seems to be expressing discomfort at having to listen to you. That nervousness is let out by diverting some attention elsewhere and letting it out physically too. He may have had bad experiences talking with you where he felt overwhelmed and now has a tiny bit of anxiety when you start talking, not knowing if that conversation will overwhelm him too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that's part of it, although getting him to acknowledge anything other than "I can listen and do other stuff at the same time" doesn't seem likely. And waiting until we are in the car or on a walk to talk would mean we talk rarely.

Still, I'm not looking to solve this problem. I just have to accept it, even if it is rude. He won't change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cecezakat

Try to acknowledge that it makes him feel better to be busy with his hands while listening to you and find times to talk to him when he can be physically busy. Try buying a little nerf ball and telling him you want to play catch in the house with him.Toss it back and forth and then start talking.


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## SurpriseMyself

Cecezakat said:


> Try to acknowledge that it makes him feel better to be busy with his hands while listening to you and find times to talk to him when he can be physically busy. Try buying a little nerf ball and telling him you want to play catch in the house with him.Toss it back and forth and then start talking.


If I have to resort to playing catch with a 51 year old man just so we can talk, what's the point? That's like turning on the TV for your wife so you can get her to have sex while she watches a cooking show. No thanks. 

It amazes me what women are willing to put up with just to stay married. Guys farting on them, scratching tier balls in front of them, having to find ways just to get their guy to make eye contact. Seriously, how low of a bar can we set!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

SurpriseMyself said:


> If I have to resort to playing catch with a 51 year old man just so we can talk, what's the point? That's like turning on the TV for your wife so you can get her to have sex while she watches a cooking show. No thanks.
> 
> *It amazes me what women are willing to put up with* just to stay married. Guys farting on them, scratching tier balls in front of them, having to find ways just to get their guy to make eye contact. Seriously, how low of a bar can we set!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, it's not just women  This is all very similar to what I go through with my wife. She and her damned phone and Facebook. I have pointed it out to her, and she gives the same excuse...that she can listen to me, and be on her phone at the same time. I have given up competing with it and just go do something else.


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## letmeletgo

Maybe he isn't interested. Hope that isn't rude. How long have you all been married? 

My male friends tell me all the time women talk too much. I get it but still... I get to share the silliest stuff with my guy but he's a big talker too. He listens and shows me that he retains information by asking me weeks later about so and so's break up or XX's new grandson. I appreciate , communication is at the cornerstone of our relationship. I would think it would be difficult to change that if it wasn't so important to us both.

When we got together he told me the sweetest thing, he promises to always listen to me and I said, I will try to make sure it is not hard for me to be heard. Meaning I am direct when there are issues. 

I have learned to save some of truly maddening things-like "does this make my but look big"for my girlfriends."


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## steph333

Keep him in line! 
Make him stop turn look and listen 
My husband did the same 
And million other things 
I let it all go
He let us go 
So shut him down and show him how adults should behave toward each other! 
How dare he disrespect your attention and presents

Be brave 
Don't let it slide it only gets worse 
Next he'll be in the garage with a 60 inch screen 
DONT THREATEN THIS WITH HIM
HELL THINK HIS XMASES HAVE ALL COME AT ONCE 

TED BUNNDY STYLES YACK 
Good luck GIRL XX


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## Cecezakat

SurpriseMyself said:


> If I have to resort to playing catch with a 51 year old man just so we can talk, what's the point? That's like turning on the TV for your wife so you can get her to have sex while she watches a cooking show. No thanks.
> 
> It amazes me what women are willing to put up with just to stay married. Guys farting on them, scratching tier balls in front of them, having to find ways just to get their guy to make eye contact. Seriously, how low of a bar can we set!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some woman don't view it so negatively that they are "putting up" with their husbands and resenting them for not being exactly like a woman. Your husband is not one of your girlfriends. He can't be ready for bursts of conversations and emotional story-telling where he has to pump out the right answer on the spot. Not only that but from your negative statement, "it amazes me what women are willing to put up with" I can now imagine what your husband is really forced to listen to when you are telling stories from work. Sounds like you probably share a lot of judgmental, negative generalizations that really stress him out. 

It amazes me that you can't stop for one second and think that maybe there is a reason your husband has turned from a great listener into someone very uncomfortable listening to you. It couldn't possibly be related to you at all, he's just a rude jerk that you have to "put up" with and resent from now on.


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## SurpriseMyself

Cecezakat said:


> Some woman don't view it so negatively that they are "putting up" with their husbands and resenting them for not being exactly like a woman. Your husband is not one of your girlfriends. He can't be ready for bursts of conversations and emotional story-telling where he has to pump out the right answer on the spot. Not only that but from your negative statement, "it amazes me what women are willing to put up with" I can now imagine what your husband is really forced to listen to when you are telling stories from work. Sounds like you probably share a lot of judgmental, negative generalizations that really stress him out.
> 
> It amazes me that you can't stop for one second and think that maybe there is a reason your husband has turned from a great listener into someone very uncomfortable listening to you. It couldn't possibly be related to you at all, he's just a rude jerk that you have to "put up" with and resent from now on.


He was never a great listener. He was doing what was expected of him so that I would think he's a good guy. Same with women who have sex with a man to lure him and then stop after marriage. He just settled in, showed who he really is, etc. He was never the guy he portrayed himself to be; it was all to get others to think highly of him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joey2k

Holland said:


> It should not matter what a partner is talking about, if someone cannot give you a few minute of attention then that is a very sad place to be.
> 
> OP it is rude and passive aggressive. Yes it would bother me.


Dropping out of a conversation after only 20 seconds is a little rude, but I'm curious how much time a man (or anyone) is expected to give to someone going on and on about something they aren't interested in. If the talker wants to talk and talk for half an hour or more does the listener have some obligation to just sit there and listen, even if they are not interested and would rather be doing something else? How much of their time are they obligated to give?


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## Cosmos

It is one of the most hurtful things one can do to another human being (particularly a partner), as it makes them feel unimportant and invalidated.

My SO has started doing this with me since we moved in together, and I've reached a stage where I can barely be bothered speaking to him. If someone cannot take the time to make eye contact with me when I'm talking to them, I really haven't the energy to continue even trying to have a conversation.


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## Holland

Joey2k said:


> Dropping out of a conversation after only 20 seconds is a little rude, but I'm curious how much time a man (or anyone) is expected to give to someone going on and on about something they aren't interested in. If the talker wants to talk and talk for half an hour or more does the listener have some obligation to just sit there and listen, even if they are not interested and would rather be doing something else? How much of their time are they obligated to give?


Read the OP, he drops out after 20 seconds, sorry but that is really rude and certainly shows his lack of interest in his wife. She wasn't going on and on and they had nothing pressing to be done, surely a partner can muster up a few minutes to connect with their spouse.

How much of their time are they obligated to give? Who knows but for a healthy relationship my guess is more than 20 seconds.


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## Threeblessings

No it is not unreasonable for him to listen to you for a few minutes. My H used to walk in the door and get his laptop out to do more work. He seemed oblivious that the kids needed to be bathed while I cooked dinner or the other way round. His work, his laptop and my voice made me non-existent. That said timing should be considered when bringing up topics like finances for example. I feel for you.


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## aine

I would hazard a guess to say this happens to many women in particular with their SOs. Men have short attention spans when the W is telling a story as it were. Yes it is very rude You can turn the tables, just refuse to engage with him at all. If he talks, also zone him out. Let him feel the pain and then if he brings it up use it as a platform to say what you have to say.


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## VermisciousKnid

There's one type of conversation that I can't bear to listen to even for five seconds. It's the catty one where my wife goes on about the appearance of someone she doesn't like. It's so juvenile I can't stand it. 

I'm not talking about their style of dress or haircut. I'm talking about physical attributes that she goes on about at length and seems to get pleasure from doing. She sounds like a middle school bully when she does that. Very unattractive. When she does this, I interrupt within five seconds and say, "I get it, you hate her guts and wish she was dead."

Other than that though, I pay attention to what she's saying.


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## Omego

There is a middle ground here. 

Either he's not interested in the subject, or he's actually listening but also opening bills and doing other things, etc. Is there anything he likes to talk about? in my experience, men talk much less than women and if this is not the case, it's exceptional. 

Are there any conversations you have together where he is really listening and you are exchanging ideas?

At the start of relationships, both people are usually on their 'best behavior', instinctively,

My H can totally space/tune out so I try to keep the conversation short and as Soccer Mom said, send important info via text and email, then do a verbal reminder. He's not being rude, it's just the way he is.


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## Joey2k

Holland said:


> *Read the OP, he drops out after 20 seconds, sorry but that is really rude *and certainly shows his lack of interest in his wife. She wasn't going on and on and they had nothing pressing to be done, surely a partner can muster up a few minutes to connect with their spouse.
> 
> How much of their time are they obligated to give? Who knows but for a healthy relationship my guess is more than 20 seconds.


Yeah, and that was literally the very first thing I said in my post. My comments were directed at other posters who seemed to be saying it was rude to not sit there and listen to whatever the other wanted to say, with no regard for the flip side that it is equally rude to take up someone's time by talking "at" them about something they aren't interested in just because they have a desire to vent or be listened to.


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## Cosmos

Holland said:


> Read the OP, he drops out after 20 seconds, sorry but that is really rude and certainly shows his lack of interest in his wife. She wasn't going on and on and they had nothing pressing to be done, surely a partner can muster up a few minutes to connect with their spouse.
> 
> *How much of their time are they obligated to give? Who knows but for a healthy relationship my guess is more than 20 seconds.*


I agree.

I also think that when we start talking about being "obligated" we need to remember the importance of emotional intimacy in a relationship and how that is built... IMO, sharing and caring about a partner's day to day activities is important, and a perceived lack of interest / not feeling heard can be a slippery slope in eroding intimacy.

I find that I share less and less with my SO these days and as result there's a good deal of silence in our relationship. Gone are the days when I'd happily chatter away when we were out for the day, pointing out a rainbow, an unusual tree, cloud formation or whatever; and gone are the days, too, when I found him fun to be around and even remotely attractive...


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## thread the needle

My behaving that way would and almost did destroy my marriage. I was dismissive and it hurt my wife very deeply. I know better now after almost losing her.

My wife needs to be listened to. It matters not to her if ALL of the subjects are of ZERO interest to me. If I don't listen to her actively, she is hurt. Enough of that hurt and the resentment and loneliness mounts enough for her to want end our marriage as she wants to be away from me so I can't hurt her any further. 

Listening attentively to her goes with the territory if I want to be happily married to my wife. I do it because I feel I owe her that, it makes her exceedingly happy and her love languages are acts of service, QT and words of affirmation. The fully engaged listening she gets from me while she is talking to me in a TWO way conversation is the QT part of the equation she needs.

A few days ago I heard about a lady bug AND a potato bug AND a spider all in the same conversation that involved a half dozen her child-like stories. She was just in the mood to be heard. My welcoming and cheerfully providing the sharing audience she wanted meant the world to her and it resulted in lots of lovey dovey stuff that I like after. 

Sometimes the subjects she chooses seems like a $hit test. I pass the test and she feels loved.

I give her the loving courtesy of listening to whatever she wants to talk about and she returns with my love language of affection and QT. 

It is a small toll to pay for my wife's happiness that results in my needs being met as well.

She doesn't always choose silly subject matter, but when she does I know she needs to connect with me thru pie hole noise making so I give her my undivided attention and ask about whatever she is talking about as sincerely as I can muster up enthusiasm. 

It pays and secures our relationship.

I always think back to the beginning of our passionate love where I would have listened to absolutely anything she wanted to discuss at length because I felt privileged just to be near someone so special, sparkly and warm. 

I love her and want her to know that so I demonstrate it with attention, affection and appreciation that it is me that she wants to be sharing he thoughts with however inane that sometimes are. 

I don't think it is the CONTENT of the conversation that matters at all to her as much as it is WHO she is having that conversation with. 

I feel very lucky that it is me so I don't blow it by acting as if I don't give a $hit about her or that she wants to talk to ME about WHATEVER she wants so that we are indeed having a conversation. 

Listening is another precious chance I have to demonstrate to my wife that I love her even if it is the patience listening to her about a subject of questionable interest or importance to me.

I do not listen actively or me. I listen for her because she cherishes that. I benefit directly from my enthusiastic willingness to do so. 

Any husband that doesn't get that, is slowly thinning the ice they stand on with their wife.


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## UMP

If I expect my wife to be interested in my penis, I sure as hell should be interested in her verbal thoughts. 

If we men whine and complain about not getting enough quality sex, the first question we should ask ourselves is "am I listening to my wife?"

My 2 cents.


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## kag123

I experience the same thing most wives here are sharing. A disinterested and unengaged husband and a feeling of loneliness and rejection that results from that. 

I struggle with how to attack this issue in my marriage a lot, and as a result I often do nothing and live with the status quo. Too conflicted in my own head to move forward or make demands to change the current situation. 

Reading though all of the husband replies...even those that should be exalted and hailed for providing for their wives needs...it all just serves to further confuse me about my own situation. 

I am of no help with solutions here but just sharing my perspective with the audience:

I very much wish to have a deeper emotional relationship with my husband. To me, that would occur via conversation and verbal idea exchange. To my husband - I would assume this comes through physical acts, but it also appears that he is simply much less emotionally "needy" than I am.

Unfortunately, I have chosen a husband that is as closed off as they come when it comes to talking. He loathes it and I think purposefully speaks in the least words possible to get through his day. He is like this with everyone. But I do think I get the worst of him in this case. It's like he's used up all of his word allotment for the day by the time I see him in the evening and he's just plain annoyed if I need to talk about anything at that point. 

There was a time when dating that he listened intently and gave feedback during conversation. When we both cherished everything about each other and devoured everything there was to know and learn about each other. 

Over the years that dwindled. Now, we speak about business matters only, and only when necessary. Conversations are for important matters only. No fluff. Even when it's important I must be brief or his attention is lost. He does things like play with his phone, get up to walk into another room and so on while we are talking. Obviously ready for the conversation to be over. 

I used to take it very personally and thought it was a direct jab at ME. After many years of living this, I do not think he's doing it on purpose. I think this is just how he is. The saying "Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance." applies here. I think he is "ignorant" to how his behavior is felt by others. Low emotional IQ?

I am not a timid person and when it's important I will make sure we talk, no matter how much he dislikes it. (Things like an issue with the kids or bills and so on.) Being forceful about these things probably does not help my cause...but I have never been able to find a better solution, and there are just some decisions that I will not make without his input when we are supposed to be running a household together. 

Everything else, I will not force him to listen to me when he clearly has no interest. So I stop talking. And he doesn't care. 

And I am not sure that I ever want him to listen out of pity, or fulfilling some duty to me. The good husband's on this thread have mentioned that they do it to fulfill their wives needs. Well, isn't that a bit like sitting through a root canal because it pleases your wife? You still intensely dislike this thing she's asked you to do. This is the verbal/emotional equivalent of duty sex, no? 

And I feel that I would rather not speak at all, than to have someone play along when they don't really want to hear what I have to say. I'm not so full of myself that I think I'm the most interesting person in the world and I am careful to choose my words and subjects to suit the audience I am speaking to. I feel that I have a pretty good gut for sensing when the audience member just doesn't care, even if they are really trying, as we do in those work meetings we are all forced to attend at one time or another when you are trying to be polite but really thinking about how to get the heck out of there. 

I don't want him to talk to me out of obligation. I want a mutually satisfying exchange. I do not think that is possible. I think I married a man with one of the lowest verbal thresholds that he could have and now I am in a situation where I must choose - stay silent and accept the current state, or ask for more from him which he will most certainly give, but know he's just checking a box and still doesn't enjoy it. 

I choose status quo. 

It still sucks, even though I am making the decision not to push for change.

BTW - this is my number 1 complaint about our marriage, well above and beyond anything else. If I could fix one thing this would be it.


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## Anon1111

you're right-- it's very rude and inconsiderate.

it sounds like you've already been around and around on this one so this may not help, but can you just be extremely explicit and say, "Hey Husband, this is very important and I need your undivided attention for 5 minutes."

Perhaps by framing the conversation from the outset like this, he would have some idea of what he is getting into and that would help him focus.

Obviously, ideally, one would not need to spoon feed this type of stuff to another adult.


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## x598

I wanted to reply to the women here in this thread, and to the OP last.

having "been there" I can say there are various reasons for it.

It has been said its "rude" to act uninterested. I find it actually helps me to do small menial tasks during some conversations. These tasks might be loading the dish washer. or sweeping the floor. tasks that take no thought on my part, just motion. It helps me keep my mind from wandering off of the topic by keeping my hands busy. it helps me listen without butting in. Opening some mail, maybe discarding junk mail, is a menial task that sounds reasonable to me.

Women please understand that we men are NOT your girlfriends. We really could care less about the latest office gossip or scuttlebutt. Instead, we listen only because you feel the need to talk about it. give us some credit for that. 

Some men might act uninterested because there are times when our opinion isnt valued, heard, or even wanted. Typically, men are problem solvers. That means, when a woman comes to her man with a problem, its natural male instinct to try and HELP and offer solutions. I think that gets misread as being un-empathetic or even worse, taking the other side, when from a male point of view, we really want to SOLVE the issue that is being brought up.

I can tell you with my XW.... I heard the same old worn out stories over and over again.......*****ing about so and so at work for example. It got REALLY OLD that I couldn't actually help or offer solutions, instead i was just there for her to gripe to and be a place to vent. I understand that at times it is a necessary thing, just being understanding and supportive.......but all too often i think it becomes an excuse to come home in a lousy mood, emotionally "dump" it on your spouse, and then continue on.

I can also tell you that in today's crazy hectic multi-tasking world...some men have a ton of things on there mind and process it with thought and careful consideration. I have read other threads where women have interpreted that as being "closed off or uninterested" when in reality its just a male way of dealing with the issues of life that are in front of them. I think in this way the opposite sex's are generally 180 apart in this area, where women "need to talk about everything" and men just go do it.

I hope what i have said can shed some light on "listening" and or being "interested". I AM INTERESTED in healthy communication in my relationship.

As for my opinion of the OP....well OBVIOUSLY her husband isn't even REMOTELY interested in what she has to say. The key is the back story. Search for her old posts and read about the status of her marriage. to call it dysfunctional, in my opinion, would be an understatement. coming on here, and basically looking for support from women to call out her husband who is uninterested, is like worrying about an age blemish on your face when you have full blown skin cancer. 

OP if you are reading this......you ought to try listing to him......in other words, he is listening to you, in fact he is SHOUTING at you, by his actions, that he is completely checked out of your marriage and all he wants to do is co-exist in peace like room mates.


----------



## lucy999

Joey2k said:


> Yeah, and that was literally the very first thing I said in my post. My comments were directed at other posters who seemed to be saying it was rude to not sit there and listen to whatever the other wanted to say, with no regard for the flip side that it is equally rude to take up someone's time by talking "at" them about something they aren't interested in just because they have a desire to vent or be listened to.


About as much time as I spend listening to my BF go on and on and on about baseball, the players stats, and their injuries. Id rather watch paint dry but guess what? It's called being in a relationship and making the other person feel cherished and loved even if I couldn't care less about what hes talking about. Because I care about HIM. And, if talking about baseball ad nauseam makes him happy, ill oblige every single time. Because I love him and want him to be happy, feel valued, and loved in our relationship.


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## Cosmos

lucy999 said:


> About as much time as I spend listening to my BF go on and on and on about baseball, the players stats, and their injuries. Id rather watch paint dry but guess what? *It's called being in a relationship and making the other person feel cherished and loved even if I couldn't care less about what hes talking about. Because I care about HIM. And, if talking about baseball ad nauseam makes him happy, ill oblige every single time. Because I love him and want him to be happy, feel valued, and loved in our relationship.*


A like wasn't enough!


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## SurpriseMyself

Joey2k said:


> Yeah, and that was literally the very first thing I said in my post. My comments were directed at other posters who seemed to be saying it was rude to not sit there and listen to whatever the other wanted to say, with no regard for the flip side that it is equally rude to take up someone's time by talking "at" them about something they aren't interested in just because they have a desire to vent or be listened to.


My H is the one who goes on and on. He will give extraneous details, pause to ask himself, "was it last Thursday? I think it was Thursday. Maybe it was Friday. Anyway ..." If he expects me to listen to that, he should listen to me. I talk quickly and keep to conversation that might be interesting. Or I'll throw in a joke. I don't like endless conversation about nothing and would rather not talk than talk about inane stuff like how to make potato salad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joey2k

SurpriseMyself said:


> My H is the one who goes on and on. He will give extraneous details, pause to ask himself, "was it last Thursday? I think it was Thursday. Maybe it was Friday. Anyway ..." If he expects me to listen to that, he should listen to me. I talk quickly and keep to conversation that might be interesting. Or I'll throw in a joke. I don't like endless conversation about nothing and would rather not talk than talk about inane stuff like how to make potato salad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife will start a story, get sidetracked by something in the story and branch off into a different story, get sidetracked from that story by something else, ad infinitum. It used to annoy me, now I find it kind of funny and even cute, even if it is still a little frustrating. Can be hard to keep track of what the story is actually supposed to be about, though.


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## SurpriseMyself

x598 said:


> I wanted to reply to the women here in this thread, and to the OP last.
> 
> having "been there" I can say there are various reasons for it.
> 
> It has been said its "rude" to act uninterested. I find it actually helps me to do small menial tasks during some conversations. These tasks might be loading the dish washer. or sweeping the floor. tasks that take no thought on my part, just motion. It helps me keep my mind from wandering off of the topic by keeping my hands busy. it helps me listen without butting in. Opening some mail, maybe discarding junk mail, is a menial task that sounds reasonable to me.
> 
> Women please understand that we men are NOT your girlfriends. We really could care less about the latest office gossip or scuttlebutt. Instead, we listen only because you feel the need to talk about it. give us some credit for that.
> 
> Some men might act uninterested because there are times when our opinion isnt valued, heard, or even wanted. Typically, men are problem solvers. That means, when a woman comes to her man with a problem, its natural male instinct to try and HELP and offer solutions. I think that gets misread as being un-empathetic or even worse, taking the other side, when from a male point of view, we really want to SOLVE the issue that is being brought up.
> 
> I can tell you with my XW.... I heard the same old worn out stories over and over again.......*****ing about so and so at work for example. It got REALLY OLD that I couldn't actually help or offer solutions, instead i was just there for her to gripe to and be a place to vent. I understand that at times it is a necessary thing, just being understanding and supportive.......but all too often i think it becomes an excuse to come home in a lousy mood, emotionally "dump" it on your spouse, and then continue on.
> 
> I can also tell you that in today's crazy hectic multi-tasking world...some men have a ton of things on there mind and process it with thought and careful consideration. I have read other threads where women have interpreted that as being "closed off or uninterested" when in reality its just a male way of dealing with the issues of life that are in front of them. I think in this way the opposite sex's are generally 180 apart in this area, where women "need to talk about everything" and men just go do it.
> 
> I hope what i have said can shed some light on "listening" and or being "interested". I AM INTERESTED in healthy communication in my relationship.
> 
> As for my opinion of the OP....well OBVIOUSLY her husband isn't even REMOTELY interested in what she has to say. The key is the back story. Search for her old posts and read about the status of her marriage. to call it dysfunctional, in my opinion, would be an understatement. coming on here, and basically looking for support from women to call out her husband who is uninterested, is like worrying about an age blemish on your face when you have full blown skin cancer.
> 
> OP if you are reading this......you ought to try listing to him......in other words, he is listening to you, in fact he is SHOUTING at you, by his actions, that he is completely checked out of your marriage and all he wants to do is co-exist in peace like room mates.


Yes, his actions do say he is checked out and ok to live as roommates. His words, though, are different. When I ask him directly, he says of course he doesn't want to live like this, but he reverts to his old habits very easily.

It's both comforting and sad that others are in the same boat. I did not expect to find myself here. He can talk ad nauseum on topics like sports, but totally shuts down on personal matters. I attribute much of that to how his father is and what was normal/ok in his house growing up. His father doesn't talk with you so much as at you. If there's conversation at the dinner table that his dad isn't interested I'm, he checks out until he can find an opportunity to talk about something he is interested in again. It's very selfish and dismissive, but his wife just puts up with it. Quality time for them is sitting on the sofa, him watching TV and her reading or doing puzzles. She tells that little bit of their relationship over as over, like it's a point of pride that she can just find some means of occupying her mind/filling her time so they can be together. I hate when she tells that story, as it just reinforces this idea that a good wife can find a way to accept being ignored by her husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ

SurpriseMyself said:


> He doesn't see it as disrespectful, so it wouldn't do any good to do it to him. He's fine with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not neccessary. he does not see it as disrespectful, because it is not happening to him. Once he gets ignored and disrespected like this, he may change his mind.


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## x598

> Yes, his actions do say he is checked out and ok to live as roommates. His words, though, are different. When I ask him directly, he says of course he doesn't want to live like this, but he reverts to his old habits very easily.


sure, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. but that doesn't mean it grows into the exact same horrible thing either. in fact, sometimes people see toxic relationships and make it a point not to behave like their parents.

I think his words, that you pointed out, are to simply get you "off his back". don't blame this on his parents or poor communication skills. it comes from one who has given up and is no longer interested in being connected with you. figure out the answer to that, as you had a hand in creating it. if you want to blame this on his father....maybe you should have some compassion! just MAYBE........his father....who talks AT YOU, shut him down too all his life. imagine how stifling that must be to grow up with and the effect. now he feels that his wife talks AT HIM. just sayin'


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## WandaJ

Joey2k said:


> Dropping out of a conversation after only 20 seconds is a little rude, but I'm curious how much time a man (or anyone) is expected to give to someone going on and on about something they aren't interested in. If the talker wants to talk and talk for half an hour or more does the listener have some obligation to just sit there and listen, even if they are not interested and would rather be doing something else? How much of their time are they obligated to give?


Twenty seconds, half an hour - who has time for a conversation with your spouse, when there is junk mail to go through?


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## SurpriseMyself

WandaJ said:


> Not neccessary. he does not see it as disrespectful, because it is not happening to him. Once he gets ignored and disrespected like this, he may change his mind.


I tried some last night and today. Didn't look at him, played on my iphone, even walked into another room. He didn't even blink. Just kept right on talking like it was totally normal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurpriseMyself

WandaJ said:


> Twenty seconds, half an hour - who has time for a conversation with your spouse, when there is junk mail to go through?


I know, right!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurpriseMyself

x598 said:


> sure, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. but that doesn't mean it grows into the exact same horrible thing either. in fact, sometimes people see toxic relationships and make it a point not to behave like their parents.
> 
> I think his words, that you pointed out, are to simply get you "off his back". don't blame this on his parents or poor communication skills. it comes from one who has given up and is no longer interested in being connected with you. figure out the answer to that, as you had a hand in creating it. if you want to blame this on his father....maybe you should have some compassion! just MAYBE........his father....who talks AT YOU, shut him down too all his life. imagine how stifling that must be to grow up with and the effect. now he feels that his wife talks AT HIM. just sayin'


I do think his dad being so dismissive affected him greatly. My dad was similar. 

I want my H's input. I do. But I will also say I've shut him down a lot, but with good reason. For example, our kids have some issues, particularly our son. I've researched them, read books and articles and blogs and just generally try to find solutions. When I discuss with my H, he says let's do X (his way) rather than Y (my suggestion to implement something experts and experienced people say works). Often times I ask him why he wants to do X over Y and he doesn't have a reason. He just thinks X could work. But I won't do X just because he wants to, especially not if it goes against all I have read and researched. But he feels like I dismissed his opinion. My view is that he hasn't researched the solutions, doesn't respect that I have, and for me to go with his idea just because it's his idea isn't a good answer.

I don't think he appreciates what I do. For example, when our son was a newborn, he started vomiting during his feedings. He would scream, turn away from his bottle, had awful gas, green poop, and red spots across his cheeks. I researched and thought it was intolerances, took our son to an allergist for confirmation, and the allergist tested our some and determined I was right. The doctor was surprised and impressed that I figured out what was wrong. My H didn't even say so much as "good on you" for figuring out the problem.

So, yes, I do have high expectations for certain exchanges, but I hold myself to my own standard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## x598

> I tried some last night and today. Didn't look at him, played on my iphone, even walked into another room. He didn't even blink. Just kept right on talking like it was totally normal.


like i said. not interested in anything you have to say or do. pretty much makes no difference if you ran across the room naked....wouldn't bat an eye.



> I want my H's input. I do. But I will also say I've shut him down a lot, but with good reason. For example, our kids have some issues, particularly our son. I've researched them, read books and articles and blogs and just generally try to find solutions. When I discuss with my H, he says let's do X (his way) rather than Y (my suggestion to implement something experts and experienced people say works). Often times I ask him why he wants to do X over Y and he doesn't have a reason. He just thinks X could work. But I won't do X just because he wants to, especially not if it goes against all I have read and researched. But he feels like I dismissed his opinion. My view is that he hasn't researched the solutions, doesn't respect that I have, and for me to go with his idea just because it's his idea isn't a good answer.
> 
> I don't think he appreciates what I do. For example, when our son was a newborn, he started vomiting during his feedings. He would scream, turn away from his bottle, had awful gas, green poop, and red spots across his cheeks. I researched and thought it was intolerances, took our son to an allergist for confirmation, and the allergist tested our some and determined I was right. The doctor was surprised and impressed that I figured out what was wrong. My H didn't even say so much as "good on you" for figuring out the problem.


thank you for admitting you "shut him down"......i am sure the reason makes perfect sense to you. (this is sarcasm)

you cant have it both ways. you can't sit here and say "want to listen to him" then admit to having it your way becasue you think its better.

you said he wants to do X and you inquire as to why but he "doesn't have a reason". just MAYBE he HAS a reason, but knows all to well, you won't go along with it, shut him down and give him all sorts of justifications as to why. i wouldn't reason with that either.

think about it....your whole post is how you listened to him and gave reasons why YOUR WAY is better. 

you are missing the big picture here. he can't share anything with you without being told he is wrong, your way is better. 

if you spent as much time here working on YOUR issues as pointing out whats wrong with your husband and trying to chnage HIM....you would be a lot better off.


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## Joey2k

WandaJ said:


> Twenty seconds, half an hour - who has time for a conversation with your spouse, when there is junk mail to go through?


Because there is nothing else besides reading junk mail someone might be doing, and even if there were, the second you want to talk they have to drop everything and listen, no matter how uninteresting they find it or how long you want to talk

I'm just curious when the line is crossed from a person being rude for not listening to the talker being rude for demanding the other's attention whether they like it or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy999

Joey2k said:


> Because there is nothing else besides reading junk mail someone might be doing, and even if there were, the second you want to talk they have to drop everything and listen, no matter how uninteresting they find it or how long you want to talk
> 
> I'm just curious when the line is crossed from a person being rude for not listening to the talker being rude for demanding the other's attention whether they like it or not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm curious, too. If your wife is talking to you about something you have no interest in. You define that as demanding?


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## SurpriseMyself

intheory said:


> Early on in our relationship, when I would really start sharing my deeper thoughts on anything and everything; I would notice my husband not listening (staring at TV). Or, I would realize later, that he must not have been listening, because he would say he couldn't remember me saying something.
> 
> He confessed to me that guys don't talk about stuff like that with women (how to do anything, forming opinions about anything); they only do that with other guys.
> 
> So, I cut back on what I discuss with him. W-a-a-a-y back.
> 
> He's tried to reach me over the years. Sometimes I would forget and start opening up to him again. Sometimes with real passion.
> 
> When he started turning up the volume on the TV with the remote; that was it.
> 
> So, there is a whole segment of my mind and soul that he knows nothing about.
> 
> I have had a little bit of satisfaction over the years by deliberately ignoring him when he needs to vent after getting off work. It ultimately makes me feel bad about myself to do that.
> 
> But sometimes I do get a nasty, vengeful pleasure in focusing completely on the television when he's looking for sympathy about stuff that bothers him in life and at work.:crying:
> 
> It's sick. I don't recommend it.
> 
> Hope this helps, OP. To know that you're not alone.
> 
> Oh, and they do, as said upthread, develop magical listening abilities when they watch sports broadcasts. They become spongelike; taking in every detail. So, it's just a lie that they "aren't good listeners".
> 
> You have to just have your own inner world that you can go to. Books, internet, movies, puzzling, crafts - to feed your mind and have mental discovery and stimulation. And hopefully some real life people too. Careful though, I had a male acquaintance years ago who was fascinating to talk to. I would talk to him and realize how much this was something that was missing in my marriage. Boy, I started avoiding that guy like the plague. And I really wanted to talk to him. I used to wish that he was in my family so I could call him up and get his ideas and thoughts on different topics. Very dangerous situation for a married person.


True, that is dangerous. It's also enlightening. You are married to a man who turns up the TV to tune you out. But you stay married to him. And you know a guy you love to talk to who you have to avoid. Doesn't it cross your mind that you should be married to someone you want to talk to and who wants to talk to you? Think of a man who his wife doesn't want sex with him anymore. Then he finds a woman who flirts and turns him on sexually. You know that guy is asking himself if he can stand staying in a sexless marriage. There are probably 1000 threads on TAM where a guy is lamenting that his wife doesn't want sex with him, and most of the males who respond say he should be having sex, that it's part of marriage. Is communication and connection not equally important?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurpriseMyself

x598 said:


> like i said. not interested in anything you have to say or do. pretty much makes no difference if you ran across the room naked....wouldn't bat an eye.
> 
> 
> 
> thank you for admitting you "shut him down"......i am sure the reason makes perfect sense to you. (this is sarcasm)
> 
> you cant have it both ways. you can't sit here and say "want to listen to him" then admit to having it your way becasue you think its better.
> 
> you said he wants to do X and you inquire as to why but he "doesn't have a reason". just MAYBE he HAS a reason, but knows all to well, you won't go along with it, shut him down and give him all sorts of justifications as to why. i wouldn't reason with that either.
> 
> think about it....your whole post is how you listened to him and gave reasons why YOUR WAY is better.
> 
> you are missing the big picture here. he can't share anything with you without being told he is wrong, your way is better.
> 
> if you spent as much time here working on YOUR issues as pointing out whats wrong with your husband and trying to chnage HIM....you would be a lot better off.


If you spent a lot of time researching why your car won't start, talking to mechanics and such, and figured out what you think the solution is, would you go with your wife's idea that the car just needs new tires? Why? Please enlighten me how that is shutting her down.

Or better yet, would you go ahead and buy 4 new tires and put them on, just to see if she might be right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifecolorful

I think your husband is emotionally disengaging. His behavior screams, "opening the mail is more important then my wife's need for kindness." 

My husband does this sort of thing, but with his phone. It's annoying, unnecessary and rude. 

I would try this: Next time he begins this behavior, grab his crotch and tell him what a turn off it is when he tunes out. Really GRAB his attention, and then kiss him so hard he takes a step backwards. Walk away and ignore any reaction from him. Make him think twice about paying attention. 

Shaking up your usual dance may be the ticket to successfully having him realize what an ass he's being.

I know my husband needs DIRECT communication about his behavior or he somehow misses the point. 

Good luck!


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## x598

SurpriseMyself said:


> If you spent a lot of time researching why your car won't start, talking to mechanics and such, and figured out what you think the solution is, would you go with your wife's idea that the car just needs new tires? Why? Please enlighten me how that is shutting her down.
> 
> Or better yet, would you go ahead and buy 4 new tires and put them on, just to see if she might be right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OP i really don't wish to argue with you. I have tried to make a "broader" point and you want to nitpick details about one particular situation.

it meaning less and you are hopeless. I will SHOUT IT OUT........

you husband is 100% disengaged and disinterested in you BECAUSE YOU TALK DOWN TO HIM, DISREGARD HIS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, ARGUE AND JUSTIFY YOUR ACTIONS.........

BTW.....HOW IS IT WORKING OUT FOR YOU???

you can keep coming here, griping to the world all about him. YOU ARE 50% OF THE PROBLEM HERE and should think about YOUR CONTRIBUTION to the problem.

not trying to be nasty or rude.....but i am betting your conversations go much the same with your husband. you see what you ish to see and hear what you wish to hear. nothing else.

I sincerely wish you well but the path you are on won't get you there.


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## kag123

SurpriseMyself said:


> If you spent a lot of time researching why your car won't start, talking to mechanics and such, and figured out what you think the solution is, would you go with your wife's idea that the car just needs new tires? Why? Please enlighten me how that is shutting her down.
> 
> Or better yet, would you go ahead and buy 4 new tires and put them on, just to see if she might be right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wanted to address this, because I think a lot like you do in this regard. I've also learned to tone this type of thinking down A LOT because it is poison to my marriage. 

I am a manager and have a lot of employees. I hire people that I find smarter than me and that I think will add valuable input to my team. That being said, we each have a specific area of knowledge where we can be very comfortable that no one else in the room has the background that we do. It does not mean that we don't allow others to provide input or challenge our ideas, it means that the team should be ready to debate and prove their ideas against a wall of held knowledge. In my team we do this often. We are passionate and we debate the best way to do things, but if you have an idea to offer you come prepared to discuss it intelligently. There is no playing favorites or going after a proposed solution that does not stand up to the critique of the group. My job is to mediate the team and decide what path we will take. 

I'm telling you the above to give you some insight into my background. 

As a result I tackle almost every decision in my life by absorbing as much about the subject as I can before I bring it to my H. I used to expect an atmosphere with him like that at work - I want his input and I want him to stand up and show me why he feels that particular path is the solution. 

Only I'm not his manager. And this isn't work. I'm his wife. There is technically no org chart in play here that puts me as his boss and gives me authority over him. 

I used to look down on him because he would be so "unprepared" for discussion. 

He's not that type of person. And in marriage you shouldn't create an atmosphere where someone feels that they have to present their case in a court of law in order to be heard. It can be intimidating. 

I took a (few thousand) steps back and really looked for reasons why he was closing himself off from me. 

I thought to myself - I run a department of people and it all seems so successful, why can't I get my marriage right? It seems like it should be so easy compared to my 9-5 life?

So I decided to take the same principles I apply at work and apply them to myself. I stopped talking and just observed and tried to take in as much information as I could about our patterns and gauging his reaction to me when I tried different things. This is a horrible science BTW as its impossible to be objective. But I tried. And I'm still trying. It's a work in progress. 

In being quiet and observing I realized how harsh I can be to someone who is outside of my working world. 

When we have to make big decisions now, I will preface any conversation I have with him with a small background statement. It goes something like this:

H, we need to talk about what to do with my car. It needs to go to the mechanic and I fear the problem may be X which could be very expensive to fix. I want you to know that I've been researching this on my own for many days now and I feel pretty confident that I've figured out what it is, but I still want your input to decide the following: (fill in the blank - what mechanic to take it to, how to pay for it, how to share cars while it's getting fixed)

I tell him my knowledge on the subject first and then tell him very specifically what I wanted input on. 

If you know it's a touchy subject and you know you've already got the information and you just want his blessing, tell him that up front. And if he can't respond right at that moment (you can't present your entire thesis to him in 10 mins and expect intelligent discussion of all salient points immediately after) you give him time to digest. You tell him, this is what I think, would you like to go over my plan? Here it is...let's talk about it tomorrow. 

If you bring it up again at the agreed upon time and he still doesn't care or respond, you move forward regardless. 

You don't tell him he's wrong or that he hasn't done his homework. That's shaming and it's marriage suicide.

BTW I am no expert. I am still muddling through this and don't know if any of this is a real solution. Just sharing in hopes it helps.


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## Adelais

Yes, it would (and does) bother me. If your husband can double task, as another poster suggested, and wants to fill the dishwasher while he is listening, at least he would be looking at you with his eyes regularly, and make comments to let you know he is actively listening, while he uses his hands to fill the dishwasher.

Someone posted a list of things people do that let you know they aren't interested in the conversation. Several months ago I printed that out and went over it with my husband and children. Now everyone is on the same page.

The next time my husband began doing something else while I was talking with him and I realized he had mentally "checked out," I stopped speaking mid sentence and began doing something else. The children noticed it, and looked up at me, but he didn't. It took a couple of times for him to realize the game was over, and that he is looking like a jerk by ignoring me. Now he catches himself when I stop speaking mid sentence and before I leave the room, and he asks me what I was saying. Sometimes I tell him, sometimes I don't.

I don't even get angry anymore. It is his loss. If it is something important, I'll try again later.

Other posters have also pointed out that men talk less than women. I've realized that sometimes I might be just talking too much, or about things that don't interest him. He deserves my consideration to not overload him.

In matters that are important to our family or to me, that aren't just chit chat, he needs to make an effort to listen.


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## Cosmos

intheory said:


> He's tried to reach me over the years. Sometimes I would forget and start opening up to him again. Sometimes with real passion.
> 
> When he started turning up the volume on the TV with the remote; that was it.
> 
> So, there is a whole segment of my mind and soul that he knows nothing about.
> *
> I have had a little bit of satisfaction over the years by deliberately ignoring him when he needs to vent after getting off work.  It ultimately makes me feel bad about myself to do that.*
> 
> But sometimes I do get a nasty, vengeful pleasure in focusing completely on the television when he's looking for sympathy about stuff that bothers him in life and at work.:crying:
> *
> It's sick. I don't recommend it.*


I don't recommend it either, for the same reasons, but I've also experimented with something similar... Once or twice I listened _intently _to one of his lengthy, convoluted tales for some time, then without warning completely changed the subject without so much as commenting on or acknowledging a single thing he had said. The look of utter confusion and hurt on his face was amazing...


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## Cosmos

intheory said:


> Ouch! I know that feeling.
> 
> How did you feel afterwards? When I've ignored h, when he's verbally pleading for validation and compassion; for a few minutes I've had the heady sensation of pleasure and power. "How does it feel, jerk" is sort of what I'm thinking.
> 
> But in no time, I feel terrible and ashamed.
> 
> To do what you are describing. I'm too chicken. That is really "bringing out the big guns", emotionally.
> 
> Do you think this helped to enlighten him about how his lack of attention to your communication needs was making you feel. Iow, did he connect the dots?


He did connect the dots, Intheory, because after a while he asked me if I'd heard what he'd said. I told him:- "Yes, I did, but I found what you were saying uninteresting and boring so I didn't bother replying. You know how it is, Sweetie... Just like you do with me sometimes..." He didn't like it one bit - particularly as it was so out of character for me 

I suppose it _was _a case of "bringing out the big guns," but I lived alone for so long that doing so again doesn't worry me and, frankly, I'd rather live alone than feel disrespected and invalidated on such a basic and fundamental level by a partner or spouse.


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## Mr The Other

Excuse a man posting.

Reading this thread, the most likely possibilities are that the OP's husband is a jerk or does not communicate like normal people. I would also say there were times when my ex-wife might have posted similar things, particularly as she felt communication was our main problem.

There were times when I often showed lack of interest in what she said overtly. I had heard promises time and time again and excuses. I had rationalised in my head to accept there was talk-stuff she said and there were things that were actually true and not to tie them together. However, I had had too much disrespect to continue politely listening to her nonsense and complaints and proposed remedies.

OP, you are a different person and I am not the same as your husband. There may be no relation between how I felt and how he feels, nor may there be any relation between what I felt and how your husband sees things. It might be possible though.


----------



## chunt

YES! I get very upset when people dont pay attention to others when they are talking to them. Mine avoids eye contact, like I am medusa or something.


----------



## SurpriseMyself

x598 said:


> OP i really don't wish to argue with you. I have tried to make a "broader" point and you want to nitpick details about one particular situation.
> 
> it meaning less and you are hopeless. I will SHOUT IT OUT........
> 
> you husband is 100% disengaged and disinterested in you BECAUSE YOU TALK DOWN TO HIM, DISREGARD HIS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, ARGUE AND JUSTIFY YOUR ACTIONS.........
> 
> BTW.....HOW IS IT WORKING OUT FOR YOU???
> 
> you can keep coming here, griping to the world all about him. YOU ARE 50% OF THE PROBLEM HERE and should think about YOUR CONTRIBUTION to the problem.
> 
> not trying to be nasty or rude.....but i am betting your conversations go much the same with your husband. you see what you ish to see and hear what you wish to hear. nothing else.
> 
> I sincerely wish you well but the path you are on won't get you there.


Simple question: if a man's wife doesn't want to have sex with him anymore, is is because she has a low sex drive or because he killed her love for him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Goodwoman

SurpriseMyself said:


> x598 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP i really don't wish to argue with you. I have tried to make a "broader" point and you want to nitpick details about one particular situation.
> 
> it meaning less and you are hopeless. I will SHOUT IT OUT........
> 
> you husband is 100% disengaged and disinterested in you BECAUSE YOU TALK DOWN TO HIM, DISREGARD HIS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, ARGUE AND JUSTIFY YOUR ACTIONS.........
> 
> BTW.....HOW IS IT WORKING OUT FOR YOU???
> 
> you can keep coming here, griping to the world all about him. YOU ARE 50% OF THE PROBLEM HERE and should think about YOUR CONTRIBUTION to the problem.
> 
> not trying to be nasty or rude.....but i am betting your conversations go much the same with your husband. you see what you ish to see and hear what you wish to hear. nothing else.
> 
> I sincerely wish you well but the path you are on won't get you there.
> 
> 
> 
> Simple question: if a man's wife doesn't want to have sex with him anymore, is is because she has a low sex drive or because he killed her love for him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

In my exerience, the man killed the woman's love for him .


----------



## Anon1111

A few tid bits (from a guy):

On listening:

- Perception Matters: one thing that really helped me out on listening to my wife was when I compared it to a business meeting. Would I be obviously preoccupied with something else during a business meeting? Wouldn't that demonstrate to the other people there that I was disengaged and possibly disrespectful? You must hold yourself to the same standard at home. It doesn't really matter if you feel you are listening if the other person perceives that you are not. 

OP: you might try to frame this to your husband as follows. In a calm moment (i.e., when you don't feel you've just been disrespected) say: "I know you believe you're listening to me when you're reading the mail, but it comes off as disinterest and lack of engagement. Would you do the same sort of thing in a meeting at work? You don't need to answer me, just think about it."

Then leave him and let him think about it (don't insist on him admitting you're right-- it will backfire if you do).

- Words Aren't Really the Issue: Another breakthrough for me was realizing that when a lot of women talk (and some men), what is actually being said in terms of words is often not really important. Just imagine the woman is saying "sad, sad, sad, angry, angry, angry." Basically disregard the actual words coming out of her mouth and just focus on what she is feeling. This will alleviate the urge to try to solve the problem for her. The story she is telling is not the actual problem. The emotion is the problem. As soon as she feels that the emotion has been understood, the problem will go away.

OP: Maybe explaining it this way to your husband in a non-heated moment will break through. Again, don't try to convince him you're right, just leave it with him and ask him to think about it.


----------



## Joey2k

Anon1111 said:


> A few tid bits (from a guy):
> 
> On listening:
> 
> - Perception Matters: one thing that really helped me out on listening to my wife was when I compared it to a business meeting. Would I be obviously preoccupied with something else during a business meeting? Wouldn't that demonstrate to the other people there that I was disengaged and possibly disrespectful? You must hold yourself to the same standard at home. It doesn't really matter if you feel you are listening if the other person perceives that you are not.


Thank you, this really helps a great deal to put the matter in perspective. I always say that in a relationship you should expect your partner to treat you at least as well as their friends and co-workers. This is one instance where I haven't always kept that in mind like I should.


----------



## Cecezakat

Goodwoman said:


> In my exerience, the man killed the woman's love for him .


I have a low sex drive, especially compared to my husband but I still want to sleep with him so I respond to his efforts. Unless there is a medical issue on hand, a low sex drive shouldn't mean you don't want to try and please your partner. And a low drive doesn't mean you don't like sex either, unless your husband kills your desire for him. 

Same with a woman killing her husband's desire to even PRETEND he wants to listen to her.


----------



## WandaJ

Joey2k said:


> Because there is nothing else besides reading junk mail someone might be doing, and even if there were, the second you want to talk they have to drop everything and listen, no matter how uninteresting they find it or how long you want to talk
> 
> I'm just curious when the line is crossed from a person being rude for not listening to the talker being rude for demanding the other's attention whether they like it or not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, you do not have to drop it but definitely do not start something new while your wife is talking to you. And if you have a talkative spouse, who goes on for hours, YOU need to figure out how to handle it, where to cross the line and how to communicate it.

I am not a big talker, I never babble for hours. So, when I am saying something, there is a reason behind it. 

And you can not expect not to listen to your wife, dismiss her need to share her day with you, and then demand adventurous sex life. I don't know how, but these two are somehow connected for us.


----------



## Anon1111

the other thing is that problematic communication within a relationship is rarely a one sided issue.

you won't get far if you just assume the other person must adopt your communication style.

you've got to recognize who you are dealing with and accept some differences. demonstration of genuine effort to bridge the gap should be recognized and encouraged. if you are bent on perfection you are creating a problem.

someone above said it well-- it's not supposed to be a debate. there is no winner.

the only way you win is if both people feel understood and valued. this concept should take priority above the surface level content of any discussion. this feeling is the subtext of all interactions. disregard it frequently and you will have a massive communication problem on your hands.


----------



## x598

SurpriseMyself said:


> Simple question: if a man's wife doesn't want to have sex with him anymore, is is because she has a low sex drive or because he killed her love for him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


could be either i suppose. and it could be other things. stress, and the daily grind of life could getting the way of passion and desire. problems with children, parents or relatives, could be adding to the mix creating anxiety and a loss of connection.

what is your point? are you suggesting your sex life is non existent because your perception of issues warrants you withholding this type of intimacy from your husband?

if that is the case, how is it working out for you? is your relationship getting better or worse?

please do not think i am simply sticking up for your husband. I am not some male who is here to "back my brothers up". 

But he isn't here, you are. You fail to realize, this conversation issue, is really only a symptom of the much deeper and greater issues in your marriage. I am trying to open your eyes to the root of the problem. and you are half of it.


----------



## x598

Anon1111 said:


> the other thing is that problematic communication within a relationship is rarely a one sided issue.
> 
> you won't get far if you just assume the other person must adopt your communication style.
> 
> you've got to recognize who you are dealing with and accept some differences. demonstration of genuine effort to bridge the gap should be recognized and encouraged. if you are bent on perfection you are creating a problem.
> 
> someone above said it well-- it's not supposed to be a debate. there is no winner.
> 
> the only way you win is if both people feel understood and valued. this concept should take priority above the surface level content of any discussion. this feeling is the subtext of all interactions. disregard it frequently and you will have a massive communication problem on your hands.


well said, and this reflects what i have been saying. now the OP can come along and say "yeah this makes sense, but we still have to do it my way".

and she wonders why her husband doesn't care two cents about her.


----------



## SurpriseMyself

x598 said:


> well said, and this reflects what i have been saying. now the OP can come along and say "yeah this makes sense, but we still have to do it my way".
> 
> and she wonders why her husband doesn't care two cents about her.


He would disagree and say he does care. I have asked. He says it's simply something he can do - to listen toe even if he turns his back, reads the mail, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## x598

SurpriseMyself said:


> He would disagree and say he does care. I have asked. He says it's simply something he can do - to listen toe even if he turns his back, reads the mail, etc.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


well i disagree. you can not say that "he says he cares" when you have made it known to him, that his actions of doing other things during a conversation, bother you and he continues the behavior. the WORDS don't match the actions.

what he is saying through his actions, is "he doesn't care"

all he cares about is pacifying you, not having a confrontation with you, to keep the peace and get you off his back.

if he cared he would give you the attention you are looking for....err, scratch that...demanding. 

so this highlights the issue of WHY he doesn't care......and that's the point I have been trying to convey to you, but you want to address his lack of obedience rather than the underlying fundamental issue.

he has checked out, detached, emotionally walled off, self protecting, uncoupled, to just live his own existence and deal with you as a nuisance to his life and "keep the peace" to exist comfortably as he sees fit. after reading some of your responses here, but more importantly your older threads, i can somewhat understand. its a lousy way to live IMO, for the both of you, but its your lives and choices to do so.

you can blame all your woes on your husband all you wish. it hasn't, isn't and will never work. unless you can recognize your shortcomings and how you contributed to get your marriage in this position, your realtionship will continue down the same path. again....how's it working out for you?


----------



## Blondilocks

When he says that he can listen to you and do other things, ask him to repeat back to you what you said.

My husband had a spell where he would finish my sentences for me. When asked why he was doing that he replied "it saves time". I told him it was rude. It didn't take long to break him of that habit when I would respond to a question by saying "You already know what I'm going to say. Stop wasting my time."


----------



## x598

OP i want to share a story with you, based on your post below.



> I want my H's input. I do. But I will also say I've shut him down a lot, but with good reason. For example, our kids have some issues, particularly our son. I've researched them, read books and articles and blogs and just generally try to find solutions. When I discuss with my H, he says let's do X (his way) rather than Y (my suggestion to implement something experts and experienced people say works). Often times I ask him why he wants to do X over Y and he doesn't have a reason. He just thinks X could work. But I won't do X just because he wants to, especially not if it goes against all I have read and researched. But he feels like I dismissed his opinion. My view is that he hasn't researched the solutions, doesn't respect that I have, and for me to go with his idea just because it's his idea isn't a good answer.




I am an electrical engineer by trade. i design electrical and communication systems and can pretty much work on anything with a wire connected to it.

I have a slightly older but exotic car. i don't drive it all the time and the battery was a little weak from lack of use. I unhooked the battery to charge it. when i hooked it back up, the car would start but immediately die.

I ruled out the battery immediately as it had plenty of power to crank the engine (the single most demanding thing on a battery is cranking a cold engine) and the engine would start and run.

I asked around some of the "experts" aka car mechanics who were more experienced with my specific vehicle, but ultimately not electrical engineers. their response...."replace the battery".

I decided to do some additional testing and replace some related electrical sensors and components. to no avail.

So I replaced the battery. 95% of my issues went away.

I was floored. less "skilled" people pointed me in the right direction of fixing my car.

I hope you can see what am getting at with your issues in your communication issue with your husband. 

I discounted others opinions. i felt my electrical knowledge, research, and skills to diagnose the problem were the correct application to resolving the issue. I was wrong.

you admittedly "shut him down"....."do things your way".......think about how emasculating you are to your husband. you want him to open up and communicate with you. what for? you will just tell him we is wrong and he is tried of fighting it with you.


----------



## SurpriseMyself

Anon1111 said:


> A few tid bits (from a guy):
> 
> On listening:
> 
> - Perception Matters: one thing that really helped me out on listening to my wife was when I compared it to a business meeting. Would I be obviously preoccupied with something else during a business meeting? Wouldn't that demonstrate to the other people there that I was disengaged and possibly disrespectful? You must hold yourself to the same standard at home. It doesn't really matter if you feel you are listening if the other person perceives that you are not.
> 
> OP: you might try to frame this to your husband as follows. In a calm moment (i.e., when you don't feel you've just been disrespected) say: "I know you believe you're listening to me when you're reading the mail, but it comes off as disinterest and lack of engagement. Would you do the same sort of thing in a meeting at work? You don't need to answer me, just think about it."
> 
> Then leave him and let him think about it (don't insist on him admitting you're right-- it will backfire if you do).
> 
> - Words Aren't Really the Issue: Another breakthrough for me was realizing that when a lot of women talk (and some men), what is actually being said in terms of words is often not really important. Just imagine the woman is saying "sad, sad, sad, angry, angry, angry." Basically disregard the actual words coming out of her mouth and just focus on what she is feeling. This will alleviate the urge to try to solve the problem for her. The story she is telling is not the actual problem. The emotion is the problem. As soon as she feels that the emotion has been understood, the problem will go away.
> 
> OP: Maybe explaining it this way to your husband in a non-heated moment will break through. Again, don't try to convince him you're right, just leave it with him and ask him to think about it.


I have. He hates that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

> I want my H's input. I do. But I will also say I've shut him down a lot, but with good reason. For example, our kids have some issues, particularly our son. I've researched them, read books and articles and blogs and just generally try to find solutions. When I discuss with my H, he says let's do X (his way) rather than Y (my suggestion to implement something experts and experienced people say works). Often times I ask him why he wants to do X over Y and he doesn't have a reason. He just thinks X could work. But I won't do X just because he wants to, especially not if it goes against all I have read and researched. But he feels like I dismissed his opinion. My view is that he hasn't researched the solutions, doesn't respect that I have, and for me to go with his idea just because it's his idea isn't a good answer.





x598 said:


> you admittedly "shut him down"....."do things your way".......think about how emasculating you are to your husband. you want him to open up and communicate with you. what for? you will just tell him we is wrong and he is tried of fighting it with you.


So let’s see.

She does hours of reading and research and comes up with her opinion based on that. Her husband comes up with an opinion based on something he pulled out of thin air and he shoots her down.

But she’s emasculating him because she rejects his opinion that he pulled out of thin air?

So why isn’t he doing the equivalent of ‘emasculating’ her by blowing off all the work she put into reading/research? Why is her educated opinion inferior to his will a$$ guess? 

Is it really the job of women to pump up the ego and masculinity of men even when they dismiss us and when they are wrong? I think not.


----------



## Satya

Sorry if this has been addressed already, but does he have ADD? 

My mother does the exact same with me. I could be telling her something really profound or important and she says, "oh look, a squirrel!" and topic is totally dropped. While it does P me off, she's an engineer with adult ADD, she's just managed to handle it well except for social exchanges.


----------



## x598

EleGirl said:


> So let’s see.
> 
> She does hours of reading and research and comes up with her opinion based on that. Her husband comes up with an opinion based on something he pulled out of thin air and he shoots her down.
> 
> But she’s emasculating him because she rejects his opinion that he pulled out of thin air?
> 
> So why isn’t he doing the equivalent of ‘emasculating’ her by blowing off all the work she put into reading/research? Why is her educated opinion inferior to his will a$$ guess?
> 
> Is it really the job of women to pump up the ego and masculinity of men even when they dismiss us and when they are wrong? I think not.


hours of reading on the internet does not make one an expert. i can find a view on the internet and 5 minutes later find one the polar opposite. so called experts , doctors and/or scientists can have differing opinions. and how do we know, aside from a biased OP, that he pulled his opinion "out of thin air"? (although its clear the OP feels that way) It is not unreasonable that a man could have an opinion, based off of observation and interaction with his own children, and who knows what other forms of reading, or any other education or investigating he may or may not have done? The communication is so bad in this marriage and the OP is so full of herself, i can understand the husband meagerly offering an opinion, but knowing it wont go anywhere, and not wanting to battle his wife over it.

I am done with this thread, for the primary reason all i have tried to do was offer some viewpoints to illuminate to the OP how her treatment of her husband contributes to her marriage issues.

rather than being able to consider there could be merit to what i am saying, and I am not a lone voice here, other posters have given similar opinions, the OP just argues back how I am wrong. 

the sad thing is......this poster has been doing this for years. I remember her other threads. she took some criticism there, and deleted posts, and i believe changed her screen name. 

do not misunderstand me that i am here just to back her husband. They are both in an emotional cold war. but SHE is here, he is not. he is a much to blame as SHE IS. but she can carry on, and continue to live this way as she has for years. its her life.


----------



## EleGirl

x598 said:


> hours of reading on the internet does not make one an expert. i can find a view on the internet and 5 minutes later find one the polar opposite. so called experts , doctors and/or scientists can have differing opinions. and how do we know, aside from a biased OP, that he pulled his opinion "out of thin air"? (although its clear the OP feels that way) It is not unreasonable that a man could have an opinion, based off of observation and interaction with his own children, and who knows what other forms of reading, or any other education or investigating he may or may not have done? The communication is so bad in this marriage and the OP is so full of herself, i can understand the husband meagerly offering an opinion, but knowing it wont go anywhere, and not wanting to battle his wife over it.
> 
> I am done with this thread, for the primary reason all i have tried to do was offer some viewpoints to illuminate to the OP how her treatment of her husband contributes to her marriage issues.
> 
> rather than being able to consider there could be merit to what i am saying, and I am not a lone voice here, other posters have given similar opinions, the OP just argues back how I am wrong.
> 
> the sad thing is......this poster has been doing this for years. I remember her other threads. she took some criticism there, and deleted posts, and i believe changed her screen name.
> 
> do not misunderstand me that i am here just to back her husband. They are both in an emotional cold war. but SHE is here, he is not. he is a much to blame as SHE IS. but she can carry on, and continue to live this way as she has for years. its her life.


The issue is that you are making excuses for a person turning their back on their spouse and ignoring their spouse. There is never a good excuse for that. If he has a problem with the way she interacts, talks to him, etc than he needs to be a grown up man and talk to her about it. If she does not get it, then he needs to insist on counseling.

I agree that a person has to look at their own negative contribution to a situation long before they look at the negative contribution of their spouse. 

But it's also ok to acknowledge that her husband is down right rude in ignoring her when she speaks to him. If she is not allowed (according to some on this thread) to identify the issues in her marriage then how can she address them? She cannot change her husband's behavior. But she has a right to call it by it's name.


----------



## x598

EleGirl said:


> The issue is that you are making excuses for a person turning their back on their spouse and ignoring their spouse. There is never a good excuse for that. If he has a problem with the way she interacts, talks to him, etc than he needs to be a grown up man and talk to her about it. If she does not get it, then he needs to insist on counseling.
> 
> I agree that a person has to look at their own negative contribution to a situation long before they look at the negative contribution of their spouse.
> 
> But it's also ok to acknowledge that her husband is down right rude in ignoring her when she speaks to him. If she is not allowed (according to some on this thread) to identify the issues in her marriage then how can she address them? She cannot change her husband's behavior. But she has a right to call it by it's name.


excuses? huh? NOWHERE in this thread did i ever say her husbands behavior was excusable. i have said he IS HALF the problem here. but the OP, who resists acknowledging, SHE is part of the problem as well.

what i did say was i can UNDERSTAND, after being shut down (admittedly by the OP) how a man can feel defeated and emasculated by a partner who only thinks their opinion is the way to handle a problem. 

i find it hilarious that you mention one needs to look at their OWN negative contribution before pointing fingers. I agree with you, and that is really what my message to the OP has been all along, to look at your own behaviors and shortcomings, and see how that is impacting the relationship. Instead, all the OP is doing here...pointing blame, justifying and coming here to get support for her views. what a convenient way to dig your heels in deeper rather than actually being open minded to your contribution to the problem.

you are right she can't control her husbands behavior. Like i already said...what she is and has been doing sure as heck isn't working. she has every right to call him rude or whatever. it's just getting her nowhere except deeper rift and loss of connection with her husband. i feel bad for both of them. I couldn't imagine living with an adversary.


----------



## SurpriseMyself

Anon1111 said:


> the other thing is that problematic communication within a relationship is rarely a one sided issue.
> 
> you won't get far if you just assume the other person must adopt your communication style.
> 
> you've got to recognize who you are dealing with and accept some differences. demonstration of genuine effort to bridge the gap should be recognized and encouraged. if you are bent on perfection you are creating a problem.
> 
> someone above said it well-- it's not supposed to be a debate. there is no winner.
> 
> the only way you win is if both people feel understood and valued. this concept should take priority above the surface level content of any discussion. this feeling is the subtext of all interactions. disregard it frequently and you will have a massive communication problem on your hands.


I've been thinking about this one and think it may be an insurmountable issue. Here's an example:

My in-laws asked to visit this weekend. I was told two days before their arrival. Now, my H likes the house to be very neat before having any guests. I recall the time when my brother and his family were coming over and one the kids dropped an item, a jacket I think, on the living room floor. This was an hour before they were to arrive, but my husband yelled at our child about the item on the otherwise spotless floor. 

Fast forward to this visit. The in-laws will arrive tomorrow morning. I haven't helped clean much this time. After all, it's his cleanliness standard and his in laws. Why should I spend my Friday evening cleaning to meet his expectations? Also, I asked him when he told me that they were coming if he wanted the house straight before they got here and he said no, I don't have to do anything.

Now, I know that's not true. He really does want me to clean, but he said he didn't and so I'm not. And sure enough, he's stomping around the house, letting me know with his passive aggressive ways that he's not happy about me taking him at his word. He wants me to help but says he doesn't and then communicates otherwise with his nonverbal messages.

When we met with our last MC and took a series of questionnaires, the dr told my H that he needed probably 18 months of group therapy to work through his conflict avoidance issues. My H decided he can just work on himself and isn't doing any therapy, IC or group.

It's numbing to live with someone who like this. Or better said, you must numb yourself to all their indirect threats and passive aggressive ways. There's no good way to be in a relationship with a passive aggressive, conflict avoidant, obsessive compulsive person. I may need help, but I also know that I can wake up smiling next to a man who will tease me about how the house is a mess. I can't wake up smiling next to a man who will make me pay with his indirect gestures that he's unhappy with the state of his home that I'm not currently addressing. And this is a daily thing. He has never once said to me, I want us to work. Let's do x. Or, we've drifted apart. Any issue is brought up through passive aggressiveness or in response to my requests of him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SurpriseMyself

x598 said:


> hours of reading on the internet does not make one an expert. i can find a view on the internet and 5 minutes later find one the polar opposite. so called experts , doctors and/or scientists can have differing opinions. and how do we know, aside from a biased OP, that he pulled his opinion "out of thin air"? (although its clear the OP feels that way) It is not unreasonable that a man could have an opinion, based off of observation and interaction with his own children, and who knows what other forms of reading, or any other education or investigating he may or may not have done? The communication is so bad in this marriage and the OP is so full of herself, i can understand the husband meagerly offering an opinion, but knowing it wont go anywhere, and not wanting to battle his wife over it.
> 
> I am done with this thread, for the primary reason all i have tried to do was offer some viewpoints to illuminate to the OP how her treatment of her husband contributes to her marriage issues.
> 
> rather than being able to consider there could be merit to what i am saying, and I am not a lone voice here, other posters have given similar opinions, the OP just argues back how I am wrong.
> 
> the sad thing is......this poster has been doing this for years. I remember her other threads. she took some criticism there, and deleted posts, and i believe changed her screen name.
> 
> do not misunderstand me that i am here just to back her husband. They are both in an emotional cold war. but SHE is here, he is not. he is a much to blame as SHE IS. but she can carry on, and continue to live this way as she has for years. its her life.


From a man who had an EA and then PA with a woman half his age, brushed it aside as not cheating because she cheated, too, went on to be cheated on by his new girlfriend, and then went on to date again in short order. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr The Other

SurpriseMyself said:


> I've been thinking about this one and think it may be an insurmountable issue. Here's an example:
> 
> My in-laws asked to visit this weekend. I was told two days before their arrival. Now, my H likes the house to be very neat before having any guests. I recall the time when my brother and his family were coming over and one the kids dropped an item, a jacket I think, on the living room floor. This was an hour before they were to arrive, but my husband yelled at our child about the item on the otherwise spotless floor.
> 
> Fast forward to this visit. The in-laws will arrive tomorrow morning. I haven't helped clean much this time. After all, it's his cleanliness standard and his in laws. Why should I spend my Friday evening cleaning to meet his expectations? Also, I asked him when he told me that they were coming if he wanted the house straight before they got here and he said no, I don't have to do anything.
> 
> Now, I know that's not true. He really does want me to clean, but he said he didn't and so I'm not. And sure enough, he's stomping around the house, letting me know with his passive aggressive ways that he's not happy about me taking him at his word. He wants me to help but says he doesn't and then communicates otherwise with his nonverbal messages.
> 
> When we met with our last MC and took a series of questionnaires, the dr told my H that he needed probably 18 months of group therapy to work through his conflict avoidance issues. My H decided he can just work on himself and isn't doing any therapy, IC or group.
> 
> It's numbing to live with someone who like this. Or better said, you must numb yourself to all their indirect threats and passive aggressive ways. There's no good way to be in a relationship with a passive aggressive, conflict avoidant, obsessive compulsive person. I may need help, but I also know that I can wake up smiling next to a man who will tease me about how the house is a mess. I can't wake up smiling next to a man who will make me pay with his indirect gestures that he's unhappy with the state of his home that I'm not currently addressing. And this is a daily thing. He has never once said to me, I want us to work. Let's do x. Or, we've drifted apart. Any issue is brought up through passive aggressiveness or in response to my requests of him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I read this and felt deeply sympathetic for you and understand that your husband must be a difficult man to live with.



SurpriseMyself said:


> From a man who had an EA and then PA with a woman half his age, brushed it aside as not cheating because she cheated, too, went on to be cheated on by his new girlfriend, and then went on to date again in short order. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then I read this and had some sympathy for your husband. You are determined to be in the right. Take what is worthwhile from the advice, leave his life to him. It is not a contest, but you reacted with hostility. 

Your husband should take action and work on his conflict avoidance. The impression you give on this thread (and I do not know you) is that for a man scared of conflict, you would be terrifying.


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## SurpriseMyself

Mr The Other said:


> I read this and felt deeply sympathetic for you and understand that your husband must be a difficult man to live with.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I read this and had some sympathy for your husband. You are determined to be in the right. Take what is worthwhile from the advice, leave his life to him. It is not a contest, but you reacted with hostility.
> 
> Your husband should take action and work on his conflict avoidance. The impression you give on this thread (and I do not know you) is that for a man scared of conflict, you would be terrifying.


Perhaps. He's plenty good at slinging anger, too.

And x598 I should have simply put on ignore. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## x598

SurpriseMyself said:


> From a man who had an EA and then PA with a woman half his age, brushed it aside as not cheating because she cheated, too, went on to be cheated on by his new girlfriend, and then went on to date again in short order. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


well your short portrayal is somewhat correct but not exactly nor do i care.

what i do know, is coming from the brutal hit of discovering my XW's affair, i made numerous mistakes in how i handled the situation. Looking back, i was completely unequipped and emotionally unprepared to deal with the place i found myself in. I wish i found TAM sooner, as many of the mistakes i made may have been avoided.

unlike you, I LEARNED a lot, even though it took some time. I have divorced my cheating X, who i was faithful to. you can say i had an affair afterwards because technically i was still "legally" married, but some here would disagree, that the marriage vows were broken by her actions and don't cast it in the same category. even now, after all that i have been through.....the only thing different i would have done at the time, would have been more forceful dealing with my X and filed divorce papers the next day. If i was to by chance meet someone i clicked with but still technically married, while waiting for our wonderful legal system to process the paper work, i dont see that as an affair.

OP nice try calling me out of for the mistakes i have made. I guess in your world that invalidates anything i have had to say. I offered you my opinion and perspective on your situation, having been married for 16 years, learned a bunch from a tough situation, i try and live my life in a different way now.

there wont be any surprise when your kids get to be a little older, and if you make it that far, you come home one day and your husband has packed his bags.

oh and since we are bringing up the others back story, for others here reading this........OP have you deleted all your older posts?


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## turnera

SurpriseMyself said:


> There's no good way to be in a relationship with a passive aggressive, conflict avoidant, obsessive compulsive person. I may need help, but I also know that I can wake up smiling next to a man who will tease me about how the house is a mess. I can't wake up smiling next to a man who will make me pay with his indirect gestures that he's unhappy with the state of his home that I'm not currently addressing. And this is a daily thing. He has never once said to me, I want us to work. Let's do x. Or, we've drifted apart. Any issue is brought up through passive aggressiveness or in response to my requests of him.


After being through several years of therapy to learn how to deal with a passive aggressive husband, let me give you my learned wisdom: You tell him in no uncertain terms that you DO have the option to leave him and if things don't improve for you, that is exactly what will happen. (mine never took me seriously until he saw me packing)

You tell him that he DOES do these things (the pouting, the eye-rolling, the sighing, the arms crossed, the quiet snort, the tapping foot...) and you don't care if he realizes it or not, because you are done accepting them. And IF he takes you seriously this time and says 'what can I do,' you say "I'm going to give you a hand gesture every time you do it, so you can SEE exactly how many times a day you do it to me, and so you can start seeing it in real time so you can learn. (and if you don't want to learn, we'll be divorcing)"

My H really wants to be married to me, so when he FINALLY saw that I was FINALLY done with him, he asked me to show him when he was doing it. Now we have agreed on that hand symbol so he can catch himself. Things are much better.

Coincidentally, the first time I went to therapy 15 years ago, the first thing she told me to do was to tell him to stop interrupting me. Because nothing I said was worth listening to and as soon as I started talking, he would interrupt me and go off on his OWN stuff, as if I'd never started speaking in the first place.

That said, x598 is right in one aspect: you DO have to look at your side of the marriage and make sure you are making it worth his while to care about you. Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


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## SurpriseMyself

turnera said:


> After being through several years of therapy to learn how to deal with a passive aggressive husband, let me give you my learned wisdom: You tell him in no uncertain terms that you DO have the option to leave him and if things don't improve for you, that is exactly what will happen. (mine never took me seriously until he saw me packing)
> 
> You tell him that he DOES do these things (the pouting, the eye-rolling, the sighing, the arms crossed, the quiet snort, the tapping foot...) and you don't care if he realizes it or not, because you are done accepting them. And IF he takes you seriously this time and says 'what can I do,' you say "I'm going to give you a hand gesture every time you do it, so you can SEE exactly how many times a day you do it to me, and so you can start seeing it in real time so you can learn. (and if you don't want to learn, we'll be divorcing)"
> 
> My H really wants to be married to me, so when he FINALLY saw that I was FINALLY done with him, he asked me to show him when he was doing it. Now we have agreed on that hand symbol so he can catch himself. Things are much better.
> 
> Coincidentally, the first time I went to therapy 15 years ago, the first thing she told me to do was to tell him to stop interrupting me. Because nothing I said was worth listening to and as soon as I started talking, he would interrupt me and go off on his OWN stuff, as if I'd never started speaking in the first place.
> 
> That said, x598 is right in one aspect: you DO have to look at your side of the marriage and make sure you are making it worth his while to care about you. Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


Thank, turnera. I would be very surprised if it will work, but I will try what you suggested. 

We do have the His Needs, Her Needs book. He took the quiz and none of the 5 needs came out as dominant. When I asked him what to make of that, he said he thinks it's because he just doesn't have much need in any area. Fitting, I think, for a man who isolates emotionally. He did later admit that he wants words of affirmation/appreciation. I think he's got a pretty thick wall up and has for most of his life. He fears abandonment, so that's how he expresses love. Not a good way to sustain a marriage.

Let me ask you - are you happy in your marriage now? I'm doubtful about whether anything could change how I feel now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights

Surprise myself, my husband did the same thing throughout our marriage. I learned to set boundaries, and one boundary is, I will not talk to someone who turns his back to me and walks out of the room while I'm speaking. 

Boundaries, coupled with marriage counseling, have done me a world of good. It really helped me learn that all I can do is set clear expectations for how I want to be treated, and be sure I am treating others well. But changing my husband into the kind of person I want him to be is inappropriate and even controlling. If he doesn't want to be the kind of partner I want, then I can't force that. 

I rejected this line of thinking for a long time, because it felt like I wasn't fighting for my marriage if I did this. But now I see that I can't make him want to be with me, and his behavior was his way of telling me that he doesn't want to be with me. So, not a very uplifting ending, but sometimes that's the way it goes.


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## EleGirl

SurpriseMyself said:


> Thank, turnera. I would be very surprised if it will work, but I will try what you suggested.
> 
> We do have the His Needs, Her Needs book. *He took the quiz and none of the 5 needs came out as dominant.* When I asked him what to make of that, he said he thinks it's because he just doesn't have much need in any area. Fitting, I think, for a man who isolates emotionally. He did later admit that he wants words of affirmation/appreciation. I think he's got a pretty thick wall up and has for most of his life. He fears abandonment, so that's how he expresses love. Not a good way to sustain a marriage.
> 
> Let me ask you - are you happy in your marriage now? I'm doubtful about whether anything could change how I feel now.


His Needs, Her Needs has a list of 10 most likely needs, not 5. Are you thinking of the 5 languages of love book?

If he says that none of those needs is dominate... can he clarify if all are on an equal level or if something else is a need for him... like being left alone?


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## SurpriseMyself

EleGirl said:


> His Needs, Her Needs has a list of 10 most likely needs, not 5. Are you thinking of the 5 languages of love book?
> 
> If he says that none of those needs is dominate... can he clarify if all are on an equal level or if something else is a need for him... like being left alone?


Ah, right. It is the love languages. 

Here's the thing - a man who tries not to feel his own emotions is like a deer in headlights when asked what he needs. He is worse when told what I need. He wants items on a checklist, exact instructions. When I try to explain, he just says, "ok. Got it."

But he really hasn't "got it." He gives fulfilling my emotional needs as much thought as brushing his teeth. He just wants to know when he needs to do x and details on how to accomplish the thing. It's so not what I want in a partner... Especially when my primary love language is quality time. He has no clue what quality time is, as it involves emotion and connection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky

kag123 said:


> I struggle with how to attack this issue in my marriage a lot, and as a result I often do nothing and live with the status quo. Too conflicted in my own head to move forward or make demands to change the current situation.
> ...
> 
> 
> I don't want him to talk to me out of obligation. I want a mutually satisfying exchange. I do not think that is possible. I think I married a man with one of the lowest verbal thresholds that he could have and now I am in a situation where I must choose - stay silent and accept the current state, or ask for more from him which he will most certainly give, but know he's just checking a box and still doesn't enjoy it.
> 
> I choose status quo.
> 
> It still sucks, even though I am making the decision not to push for change.
> 
> BTW - this is my number 1 complaint about our marriage, well above and beyond anything else. If I could fix one thing this would be it.




That sounds very rough. I don't have any advice for you, but I'll share two thoughts that came to mind as I read:



1) staying silent about your needs, suffering in silence, is a recipe for disaster



2) analogies and generalizations and hyperbole only go so far; sometimes people feel like being quiet and prefer not to have a conversation at one particular moment, but that doesn't mean such a person would always (or ever) equate conversation with a root canal



If you aren't talking with him about all this, you run a great risk of misunderstanding him, and then acting based on that misunderstanding, resulting in a further disconnect...... And repeat that often enough, and the distance grows when in fact it didn't have to.



The comparison to duty sex is interesting. In my mind, there is another sort of sex that superficially might seem like duty sex, but is actually quite different. I speak here of sex given simply out of recognition the receiving partner needs it to feel loved, even though the partner offering it would it. It seems possible to me such could be lovingly received, and appreciated for the act of love it is.



Perhaps there is a sort of conversation analagous to that.


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## SimplyAmorous

SurpriseMyself said:


> I do think his dad being so dismissive affected him greatly. My dad was similar.
> 
> I want my H's input. I do. *But I will also say I've shut him down a lot, but with good reason. For example, our kids have some issues, particularly our son. I've researched them, read books and articles and blogs and just generally try to find solutions. When I discuss with my H, he says let's do X (his way) rather than Y (my suggestion to implement something experts and experienced people say works).
> 
> Often times I ask him why he wants to do X over Y and he doesn't have a reason. He just thinks X could work. But I won't do X just because he wants to, especially not if it goes against all I have read and researched. But he feels like I dismissed his opinion. My view is that he hasn't researched the solutions, doesn't respect that I have, and for me to go with his idea just because it's his idea isn't a good answer.*





x598 said:


> excuses? huh? NOWHERE in this thread did i ever say her husbands behavior was excusable. i have said he IS HALF the problem here. but the OP, who resists acknowledging, SHE is part of the problem as well.
> 
> *what i did say was i can UNDERSTAND, after being shut down (admittedly by the OP) how a man can feel defeated and emasculated by a partner who only thinks their opinion is the way to handle a problem. *


Ok... I have not been following this thread so much, so excuse me for what I have missed.... yesterday I noticed a few of the ending comments.. then this morning I was watching a You tube video discussing *the MALE EGO*...a very HOT topic among women here.. I think it's often misunderstood, sure men can be Di**s... but we can exasperate this sometimes.. . can we admit it ? Listen, I have been there.. though my H is pretty humble.. but my own conscience catches me when I need to reign it in & listen to him .

When this part of the video was discussed.. I immediately thought of this thread, this particular issue anyway... I felt it had Merit when couples are at "loggerheads"...









I feel this is reasonable (I looked for an article for this segment I seen) ...it could soften your husband, open up the lines of communication again.. or for another time, another issue.. I can tell you from my own experience.. I am the researcher in our family..I enjoy it!....I do all the groundwork and generally bring what I learn to him.. and we discuss.. but sometimes my husband still has some helpful things to offer...



> *Let Him Solve It His Way…And Demand Accountability*
> 
> Most men I work with really don't want to spend hours exploring their feelings, issues and causes of their weaknesses just so they can correct a problem they're experiencing with their spouse. Instead they prefer quick more shallow fixes over long drawn out discussions. The problem is that the quick solutions often don't last and perhaps aren't deep enough to actually address or solve the "real" problem.
> 
> So the battle between the female need for progress and male need for peace is always in play. The male ego avoids the long painful discussions where we never seem to go anywhere and instead we choose quick problem solving where we over commit and under deliver, again getting us nowhere.
> 
> One of the best answers I've found though to deal with the male ego is simply to let them move quickly into problem solving mode and simply demand that you have an accountability session within 5 days to see if you're partners solutions are actually working.
> 
> That will ensure two great things. First, they'll be much more motivated to make sure they live up to their end of the bargain. Second, you'll get another chance to talk with your partner again, and he'll be more inclined to actually want to do it. In my eyes, it is a total win-win.


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