# Am I out of order?



## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

So this isn’t really an infidelity thing but i am keen to get advice on this issue. My partner and i have been together 5 years, we are both 25. For the most part we have a strong relationship and get on very well. This may sound silly but in a week or say she is going on a night out with her friend from work (female) and wants to stay over at her house. Geographically speaking there isn’t really a reason that she has to stay at the friends place at all. Her reasoning is that this event there are going to goes on to the early hours and it would be handier for her to stay over. 

On one level i wouldn’t want her getting a taxi back to our place at that time on her own so im kind off alright with this. I want to trust her more than anything in the world. I actually told her i wasn’t that comfortable with her being out so late and then not coming home, she didn’t really take it very well. I want to say now that i know for a fact she is going to this with a bunch of girls, its all been organised quite publicly, so i don’t think she is cheating on me or anything, i hope not anyway. My concern is that she handles drink quite badly, and im worried about that, ive had to go and pick her up a few times already and take her home because she was very drunk. She dosnt seem willing to compromise with this and said there is no point going if she cant stay over, i just dont see the logic in that really, maybe its just me. I need to learn to trust more and need your advice on this

These past few weeks have been the worst we have had as a couple because ive been giving her a hard time over it. I want to improve as a person because i have made mistakes since we have been together which if she had done them i would have left her. I feel like a hypocrite, i feel like we are drifting apart. Sorry for the wall of text but could do with some advice about this issue and how i could improve my relationship. Thanks in advance


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

IMO, if you are married or in a comitted relationship, you come home. Period. It's okay to go out with your friends, but certainly offer to come pick her up, anytime, anywhere, and you will get her home safely. Even if it's 4 am.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

mestalla guy said:


> i have made mistakes since we have been together which if she had done them i would have left her.


Explain please.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

deejov said:


> IMO, if you are married or in a comitted relationship, you come home. Period. It's okay to go out with your friends, but certainly offer to come pick her up, anytime, anywhere, and you will get her home safely. Even if it's 4 am.


thanks for replying, yeah thats how i feel really. Im kind of old fashioned that way, always have been. And fairness she dosnt do this kind of thing very often at all, 90% of me trusts her, but like i say, things between us havnt been the best recently


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Lyrics - Well I don't know why I came here tonight,
I got the feeling that something ain't right,
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair,
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs,
Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you.


Stealers Wheels - Stuck In The Middle With You - Offical Video + Lyics - YouTube


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Explain please.


Since we have been together i have kissed a few girls, always a one off, always while i had been drinking and the guilt kills me. The first couple happened within weeks/months of us getting together, i was young and stupid, the last time happened 2 years ago with someone i knew since childhood, she also has a boyfriend and we were just been stupid and drunk, we havnt spoken since.
I understand this behaviour is unacceptable and wrong


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> thanks for replying, yeah thats how i feel really. Im kind of old fashioned that way, always have been. And fairness she dosnt do this kind of thing very often at all, 90% of me trusts her, but like i say, things between us havnt been the best recently


Boundaries are not conditional on the way the relationship is at the current moment. It's a safety issue... and if its your boundary... it doesn't get tossed aside. Enforce it, or it's gone.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Sleepovers are for kids. Adults go home to their spouses. Your girlfriend is, as the lyrics say, stuck in the middle.

So, your girlfriend wants to go out with her friends, get drunk, and shake her assets in front of men who are looking for casual sex? And she doesn't want to come home? What could possibly go wrong? If she wants to get drunk with her friends, her friends can come over to your house, or she can go to theirs. If she wants to be ogled by a man, you're available. If she wants to be ogled by strange men, then she doesn't need to be in a relationship.

Good luck.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

mestalla guy said:


> Since we have been together i have kissed a few girls, always a one off, always while i had been drinking and the guilt kills me. The first couple happened within weeks/months of us getting together, i was young and stupid, the last time happened 2 years ago with someone i knew since childhood, she also has a boyfriend and we were just been stupid and drunk, we havnt spoken since.
> I understand this behaviour is unacceptable and wrong


Wow...your lucky she even wants to stay with you. I am on the fence of whether or not I can stay with my H for drunk make-out sessions. Alcohol is like a truth serum...you meant and wanted to betray your spouse -IMO. 

Do you still drink? Or because of all the "guilt" have you stopped?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Your right to be concerned. 

Between you cheating multiple times across the duration of your relationship (obviously trickling/minimizing) and her getting liquered up and staying out... That's a pretty spectacular dynamic for knocking down her inhibitions & moral boundries.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Ingalls said:


> Wow...your lucky she even wants to stay with you. I am on the fence of whether or not I can stay with my H for drunk make-out sessions. Alcohol is like a truth serum...you meant and wanted to betray your spouse -IMO.
> 
> Do you still drink? Or because of all the "guilt" have you stopped?


i dont go out with my friends as much drinking anymore,i agree, the alcohol was no excuse


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

mestalla guy said:


> i dont go out with my friends as much drinking anymore,i agree, the alcohol was no excuse


Good-glad to hear. Then don't allow her to play with fire either...


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

the thing is, married women and people in relationships go away with friends all the time, a part of me thinks there is nothing wrong with staying at her friends house, women usually go away together on hen parties and stuff, am i being a bit old fashioned about this? Why shouldnt i trust her, she has given me no good reason not too


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

When I was dating someone, I did stay at my friend's house all the time. It was closer to work and if we'd go out, then I'd stay. We weren't up to anything. We weren't doing anything "wrong". We'd go sing Karaoke, come home, talk and giggle all night (even in our late 20s) and hang out. I love that woman. She and I were friends years before and we're friends now. I dont' see anything wrong with that.

Now that i'm married, though, I wouldn't stay with her. I come home. Unless my husband also stayed with me at her house after going out.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

that_girl said:


> When I was dating someone, I did stay at my friend's house all the time. It was closer to work and if we'd go out, then I'd stay. We weren't up to anything. We weren't doing anything "wrong". We'd go sing Karaoke, come home, talk and giggle all night (even in our late 20s) and hang out. I love that woman. She and I were friends years before and we're friends now. I dont' see anything wrong with that.
> 
> Now that i'm married, though, I wouldn't stay with her. I come home. Unless my husband also stayed with me at her house after going out.


thats interesting, she has made me feel like im being really silly about it, from getting some advice on this forum i see that im not being silly thinking what i do at all, the majority would see it as wrong really. 

confused


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

deejov said:


> IMO, if you are married or in a comitted relationship, you come home. Period. It's okay to go out with your friends, but certainly offer to come pick her up, anytime, anywhere, and you will get her home safely. Even if it's 4 am.


I would pick her up after the event. I would not care if I did not get any sleep and had to work the whole next day. Priorities. My main concern with this would be setting a precedent that could lead to a whole life style of getting a ophone call at night informing me she had a little too much to drink and would not be home tonight.

I would never do that to my wife. I come home.

So not sure what the event is. This is some kind of a GNO or what?

Having said this my wife has stayed at a local hotel a few times related to my daughters activities. Chaperone stuff for per-teen / teenagers. We usually hook up for dinner and so on. My wife does not drink.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> Since we have been together i have kissed a few girls, always a one off, always while i had been drinking and the guilt kills me. The first couple happened within weeks/months of us getting together, i was young and stupid, the last time happened 2 years ago with someone i knew since childhood, she also has a boyfriend and we were just been stupid and drunk, we havnt spoken since.
> I understand this behaviour is unacceptable and wrong


So you are not actually married then.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I would pick her up after the event. I would not care if I did not get any sleep and had to work the whole next day. Priorities. My main concern with this would be setting a precedent that could lead to a whole life style of getting a ophone call at night informing me she had a little too much to drink and would not be home tonight.
> 
> I would never do that to my wife. I come home.
> 
> So not sure what the event is. This is some kind of a GNO or what?


its to go see a top dj playing a set at a venue in the city, i dont actually believe there is anything more to it than her going out with her friends. I would never force her to not go or stay over but i do want her to make the right decision and come home. You are spot on in saying it could set a precedent, as a one off maybe im cool about it but if it started happening more often that would cause problems. 

My gut instinct is that she shouldnt have to stay over, she will see that as a lack of trust on my part, like i say, she really hasnt given me any reason to doubt her, she is a good person with high morals which she demonstrates in many ways. Maybe the best thing would be for me to trust her. If something did happen or i even suspected that something happened then i would know she isnt the person i thought she was and wouldnt want to waste anymore time with her anyway


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

mestalla guy said:


> thats interesting, she has made me feel like im being really silly about it, from getting some advice on this forum i see that im not being silly thinking what i do at all, the majority would see it as wrong really.
> 
> confused


I believe that most, can't speak for everyone, in this forum has either crossed this boundary themselves and know how easy it is, or have had a spouse cross this boundary and is living in pure hell for it. 

I will say, too, that in my circle of friends who HAVEN'T had marriage issues or the need for TAM would never stay overnight without the spouse.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> So you are not actually married then.


no, but as good as, we have both talked about it and both want to get married, trouble is we have to save up alot of money to do that really. we have been together for 5.5years.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> the thing is, married women and people in relationships go away with friends all the time, a part of me thinks there is nothing wrong with staying at her friends house, women usually go away together on hen parties and stuff, am i being a bit old fashioned about this? Why shouldnt i trust her, she has given me no good reason not too


Ah so this is the turn in the question where the OP asks for advice, but then starts defending the behavior that worries them. 

Boundaries. Do His Needs Her Needs together. Do the boundary setting. Decide why you guys have not fully comitted to one another yet by making it formal. If you are married that is unclear. 

The things you describe above are great for single folks who may decide to hook up.

I do think it is very old fashined to not have well defined boundaries. A modern man is secure in himself and his boundaries. He is not afraid to be called jealous, insecure or controlling. He protects his marriage. 

So do not be an old-fashioned weak guy. Either engage as the male or do not. 

Blind trust is lazy. Partners look out for each other. She is begining behavior that is creating sliding boundaries. If you are for the life style where your wife parties away without you in environments where women can hook up with men, good luck with that my friend. Is that what you want? If not deal with it now and save both of you a lot of pain.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

mestalla guy said:


> the thing is, married women and people in relationships go away with friends all the time, a part of me thinks there is nothing wrong with staying at her friends house, women usually go away together on hen parties and stuff, am i being a bit old fashioned about this? Why shouldnt i trust her, she has given me no good reason not too


Of course she's given you reason. She has told you that she plans to get drunk and rub up against other men who are looking for casual sex. But you shouldn't worry about it because she will be with some of her friends, who will be doing the same thing.

There is a difference between a group of women going to dinner, or off for the weekend together for a church retreat, and a group of women going out to get drunk and rub up against men looking for casual sex. Now, I'm sure your girlfriend will insist that you should trust that when she gets drunk and rubs up against another man who is looking for casual sex, she will be thinking of you and would never do anything to hurt you. The thing is, she is planning on doing something that would hurt you. If my wife told me she was planning on rubbing up against another man who wanted to have casual sex, I would be upset. I would be hurt. My wife has permission to rub up against exactly one man. Me.

And heaven forbid that something doesn't go according to plan. I sure hope she doesn't have one too many drinks. I mean, I know she's planning on getting drunk. But, I hope she doesn't get drunk enough that she will actually engage in the casual sex that the men she will be flirting with will want. I hope, for your sake, that she can walk that line without falling off.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Ah so this is the turn in the question where the OP asks for advice, but then starts defending the behavior that worries them.
> 
> Boundaries. Do His Needs Her Needs together. Do the boundary setting. Decide why you guys have not fully comitted to one another yet by making it formal. If you are married that is unclear.
> 
> ...


i think you are right, thats really good advice. I should trust my instincts


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> thats interesting, she has made me feel like im being really silly about it, from getting some advice on this forum i see that im not being silly thinking what i do at all, the majority would see it as wrong really.
> 
> confused


It is just a feeling. You are being fitness tested. Your feelings are yours. You own them. Deal with it. Be assertive.  If she is unwilling to deal with this, she is not the woman for you. Then find a woman who is more compatible with your future.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> thats interesting, she has made me feel like im being really silly about it, from getting some advice on this forum i see that im not being silly thinking what i do at all, the majority would see it as wrong really.
> 
> confused


Well, do you know this friend? My boyfriend at the time knew my friend and saw she wasn't a threat. I don't hang out with attention wh0res or boy crazy women  No. She is and was a sensible, if not AMAZINGLY AWESOMELY FUN, women. And my boyfriend trusted me. I don't regret staying at her house. We have some awesome memories from "girls night in" and we still hang out and laugh about those times. 

This isn't about what she's doing, but it's more about why you don't trust her. SOMETHING in your gut is telling you to be on edge with this. I don't know what that is, only you can figure that out.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> its to go see a top dj playing a set at a venue in the city, i dont actually believe there is anything more to it than her going out with her friends. I would never force her to not go or stay over but i do want her to make the right decision and come home. You are spot on in saying it could set a precedent, as a one off maybe im cool about it but if it started happening more often that would cause problems.
> 
> My gut instinct is that she shouldnt have to stay over, she will see that as a lack of trust on my part, like i say, she really hasnt given me any reason to doubt her, she is a good person with high morals which she demonstrates in many ways. Maybe the best thing would be for me to trust her. If something did happen or i even suspected that something happened then i would know she isnt the person i thought she was and wouldnt want to waste anymore time with her anyway


Awesome.  So it is to listen to music and dance with other guys while drinking alcohol. What could go wrong? 

She is free to see it anyway she wants. Blind trust is foolish and lazy. She is proposing risky behavior. Don't be cool with it. Pick her up after the event. 

Personally I would not be cool with her dancing with OM and drinking with them. That is single behavior. It is is truly all women listening to music that is different. You have to know your boundaries.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Of course she's given you reason. She has told you that she plans to get drunk and rub up against other men who are looking for casual sex. But you shouldn't worry about it because she will be with some of her friends, who will be doing the same thing.
> 
> There is a difference between a group of women going to dinner, or off for the weekend together for a church retreat, and a group of women going out to get drunk and rub up against men looking for casual sex. Now, I'm sure your girlfriend will insist that you should trust that when she gets drunk and rubs up against another man who is looking for casual sex, she will be thinking of you and would never do anything to hurt you. The thing is, she is planning on doing something that would hurt you. If my wife told me she was planning on rubbing up against another man who wanted to have casual sex, I would be upset. I would be hurt. My wife has permission to rub up against exactly one man. Me.
> 
> And heaven forbid that something doesn't go according to plan. I sure hope she doesn't have one too many drinks. I mean, I know she's planning on getting drunk. But, I hope she doesn't get drunk enough that she will actually engage in the casual sex that the men she will be flirting with will want. I hope, for your sake, that she can walk that line without falling off.


You see i think you are being a bit over dramatic, girls out together all the time, whether they are single or not, that dosnt mean they “rub up” against men or flirt. I agree it increases the risks of something happening, but whats the point if you cant trust someone, the person you are supposed to love.

Your view of what happens when girls go out is a bit of a stereotype, however the very fact im on this forum proves that i too at least in some don’t feel comfortable with the situation. I don’t however think its healthy to view having a drink and a dance with friends as such a sinister thing, any ladies on here have any advice? Are you girl nights really so deceitful?


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Awesome. So it is to listen to music and dance with other guys while drinking alcohol. What could go wrong?
> 
> She is free to see it anyeway she wants. Blind trust is foolish and lazy. She is proposing risky behavior. Don't be cool with it. Pick her up after the event.
> 
> Personally I would not be cool with her dancing with OM and drinking with them. That is single behavior. It is is truly all women listening to music that is different.


so your issue would be that she is going out in the first place, not just the stay over? its really interesting reading these replys because for years i have felt like im being controlling and untrusting about this sort of thing. We are only 25, i honestly dont see a problem with her going out with her friends, the whole staying over thing is wrong though, i think im right about that


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But going out means different things for different people.

For me and my girls, it's a night out with karaoke, in our own little world, taking stupid pictures, eating at Denny's at 1am and then having a smoke before sleeping. OMG! I need a night like that soon. It's been about 5 months 

We've never been club people. Wel, I haven't been to a club since college.

Is you gf a clubber? Does she give you any reason why you shouldn't trust her?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

mestalla guy said:


> You see i think you are being a bit over dramatic, girls out together all the time, whether they are single or not, that dosnt mean they “rub up” against men or flirt. I agree it increases the risks of something happening, but whats the point if you cant trust someone, the person you are supposed to love.


And I think you're being naive. A relationship, even if both people are 100% selflessly committed to each other and making it work, still has a very good chance of failing. In a relationship where one, or both, people still want to behave like uncommitted, single people, the odds of failing go way, way up.

There is a reason why single men who are looking for sex go to clubs in the city. It's because the women in those venues are drinking and primed for casual sex. The entire atmosphere is set up to encourage casual sex. Now, you may think that you can drop your girlfriend into the lion's den and have nothing to worry about, but that doesn't make it true.



mestalla guy said:


> Your view of what happens when girls go out is a bit of a stereotype, however the very fact im on this forum proves that i too at least in some don’t feel comfortable with the situation. I don’t however think its healthy to view having a drink and a dance with friends as such a sinister thing, any ladies on here have any advice? Are you girl nights really so deceitful?


You're not talking about a drink and a dance. You wrote that your girlfriend doesn't handle alcohol well and that she is planning on being so drunk that she can't make it home. That's not a glass of wine at the girls' book club.

She will be drunk. Drunk people don't make good decisions. You posted that, earlier in your relationship, you would get drunk and make out with other women. So you stopped drinking. You know this.

If your girlfriend said she wants to get drunk and go to the library with her girlfriends, I would tell her to have fun. But that's not what this is.

In a relationship, trust is a two-way street. Two people trust each other when each of those people work to earn and maintain that trust. That means that each of you should work to reassure the other. Don't give the other person something to be worried about.

I would never pick up an ex-girlfriend from the airport. Because it's inappropriate. Something could happen. And, even if it didn't, it would make my wife nervous, which I don't want. That's why she trusts me.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> You see i think you are being a bit over dramatic, girls out together all the time, whether they are single or not, that dosnt mean they “rub up” against men or flirt. I agree it increases the risks of something happening, but whats the point if you cant trust someone, the person you are supposed to love.
> 
> Your view of what happens when girls go out is a bit of a stereotype, however the very fact im on this forum proves that i too at least in some don’t feel comfortable with the situation. I don’t however think its healthy to view having a drink and a dance with friends as such a sinister thing, any ladies on here have any advice? Are you girl nights really so deceitful?


It sooo depends on the person! I am not that person to go out to get men's attention. God forbid they touch me....i'd be busting some heads.

But no, my GNOs (the 3 I have a year) are mellow. And we seriously are enjoying each other's company and we're all in committed relationships and if my single girls are single at the time, they RESPECT us married women and don't egg us on to do anything. It's a girls' night out, Moms' night out, whatever. And its' FUN!

I am not a big drinker. Neither are my friends. I have to either be at work or up with kids the next day  Who can drink?

Sometimes, I go out with a girlfriend and we smoke 1,000 cigs, talk about life, drink some wine and really connect again. Like sisters. I love my sisters too and have GNO with them when we see each other while my BIL and Hubs hangs out  We don't do anything that would make us look like bad wives. I honestly do not notice other men and after a few hours, i can't WAIT to go home and snuggle my husband. He's awesome.

it's funny because men say how they need to go out for "guy time" and that we women just have to accept that. hahaha so what gives? Why is it ok for guys to have "guy time" and women can't have GNO? My husband goes out with the guys maybe 4 times a year. Should I make him feel like he's a piece of crap? What if he did stay over because he drank too much? Should I berate him and make him feel like he did something wrong? I mean, I'd be disappointed but he's a grown man and knows he effed up.

Either you trust or you don't.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

that_girl said:


> It sooo depends on the person! I am not that person to go out to get men's attention. God forbid they touch me....i'd be busting some heads.
> 
> But no, my GNOs (the 3 I have a year) are mellow. And we seriously are enjoying each other's company and we're all in committed relationships and if my single girls are single at the time, they RESPECT us married women and don't egg us on to do anything. It's a girls' night out, Moms' night out, whatever. And its' FUN!
> 
> ...


all very true, good post. seeing a gno as some sort of evil thing isnt healthy, like you say its down to the person


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

that_girl said:


> it's funny because men say how they need to go out for "guy time" and that we women just have to accept that. hahaha so what gives? Why is it ok for guys to have "guy time" and women can't have GNO? My husband goes out with the guys maybe 4 times a year. Should I make him feel like he's a piece of crap? What if he did stay over because he drank too much? Should I berate him and make him feel like he did something wrong? I mean, I'd be disappointed but he's a grown man and knows he effed up.
> 
> Either you trust or you don't.


It's all about context. Most "guy time" that I know of is about a round of golf, or a sporting event. Maybe watching the Super Bowl at the sports bar. Usually, there aren't even any women around.

Many GNOs are about the OP's situation. Several women getting together, getting hammered in a club, and rubbing crotches against random men. That's not OK.

And, fwiw, I don't have a problem with what you described you do, except for the smoking (shame). Having a couple of glasses of wine on your deck while talking to your girlfriends and then sleeping with your husband is absolutely fine.

And I go back to earning trust. Blind trust is for chumps. If I told my wife that I was going out to get drunk and rub my crotch against some bar skanks, but she should trust me, I wouldn't make it out the door. But my wife trusts me on the skank-free golf course.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

If you don't agree with some posters and believe you can trust your GF going out,then whats the big deal about her staying at her friend's
overnight?I really don't get the logic.Maybe that's just me.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Whoa whoa whoa.

Most Guy Time is golfing, and whatever? :rofl:

Ok. Well, that's not how I saw guys spending guy time when I was younger. But ok.

And "many" GNO, as you say are done in clubs, etc. ...again, not in my circle.

I really don't like how guy time is soooo innocent but women are evil and out to RUB UP on men! 

Right. Ever heard "what happens in vegas stays in vegas"? that wasn't just for the women.

Maybe the men with bad vision of GNO have had issues with their mates about it and/or was cheated on during a GNO.

But I promise, I have never been to so-called GNO like the way they are described. My friends either. We're not dull women either. We can tear a place up by ourselves! But, we're not attention wh0res and i think that makes all the difference.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

TBT said:


> If you don't agree with some posters and believe you can trust your GF going out,then whats the big deal about her staying at her friend's
> overnight?I really don't get the logic.Maybe that's just me.


i didnt say i dont agree, im confused. I dont agree that gno is crotch rubbing session though


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Of course she's given you reason. She has told you that she plans to get drunk and rub up against other men who are looking for casual sex. But you shouldn't worry about it because she will be with some of her friends, who will be doing the same thing.
> 
> There is a difference between a group of women going to dinner, or off for the weekend together for a church retreat, and a group of women going out to get drunk and rub up against men looking for casual sex. Now, I'm sure your girlfriend will insist that you should trust that when she gets drunk and rubs up against another man who is looking for casual sex, she will be thinking of you and would never do anything to hurt you. The thing is, she is planning on doing something that would hurt you. If my wife told me she was planning on rubbing up against another man who wanted to have casual sex, I would be upset. I would be hurt. My wife has permission to rub up against exactly one man. Me.
> 
> And heaven forbid that something doesn't go according to plan. I sure hope she doesn't have one too many drinks. I mean, I know she's planning on getting drunk. But, I hope she doesn't get drunk enough that she will actually engage in the casual sex that the men she will be flirting with will want. I hope, for your sake, that she can walk that line without falling off.


And this is the deal. They say that you need to trust them that they will not end up having sex, yet the activities themselves if it involves these are unfaithful in themselves. Going to a place that has this going on is probably inappropriate as it is risky. Actually rubbing up on other men is in my view unfaithful in itself. It is also the woman putting herself out there for attention from men that are trying to seduce her. She will enjoy the seduction. It is playing just the tip. How far can she go before the boundaries start falling? It was just a kiss, just a hand cupping a breast or rubbing her bottom, just the feel of an erection rubbing against her. It was just going outside for some air. Just going to get some coffee to talk. Just going back to the hotel or friends house for some drinks. Just a bit of fun. Just exchanging contact information.

You should be able to trust her to not put herself in these scenarios. If my wife did this, I would see her as breaking trust just by doing this. So he can say I do trust you. I trust you not to engage in these activities and to now stay overnight at your friends.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Mestalla ... you know your girlfriend far better than anyone here, so trust your own judgment here. You either trust her or you don't. If you trust her, let her enjoy a night out with friends. If you don't, why are you with her in the first place? Can you imagine/do you want a long-term relationship or marriage with a woman you believe incapable of going out for a night without being unfaithful?
(Side note: you definitely have some projection going on here).

As for the club thing ... Yep, there will be single guys looking for hookups. And drinking. And none of that will make anyone cheat if they don't want to. So, again, it comes down to your level of trust. Only you, not some strangers who don't know you or your girlfriend, can make that judgment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Did she actually say she wants to go to a club to rub up on men? 

Holy crap. I'm so glad my husband doesn't read so much into what I say when I say I'm going out with friends. (When I do). He doesn't know what we do when I tell him that. I mean, he knows who I am and trusts me, but if I said "i'm going to this club for so and so's birthday" or whatever, (unlikely LOL!) I dont' think he'd blow up and accuse me of wanting to rub on other men. How rude. 

At my "bachelorette" party, my friend did it at this fancy bar, with dancing, music (that i hated), etc and the people there kept wondering why there wasn't a stripper and why I wasn't dancing.

Wtf. I left. :rofl:  That is NOT my scene. Ew. Just a bunch of desperate drunks.

but if your gf just wants a night out and isn't a wh0re, then why don't you trust her? If she drinks, do you want her to drive home? I don't get this. 

i can see if there are other red flags (i admit i haven't read all the posts here), but if not, you are going to push her away.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> i didnt say i dont agree, im confused. I dont agree that gno is crotch rubbing session though


But it can be a scenario for a "perfect storm".Maybe your inner voice is trying to tell you that.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> And this is the deal. They say that you need to trust them that they will not end up having sex, yet the activities themselves if it involves these are unfaithful in themselves. Going to a place that has this going on is probably inappropriate as it is risky. Actually rubbing up on other men is in my view unfaithful in itself. It is also the woman putting herself out there for attention from men that are trying to seduce her. She will enjoy the seduction. It is playing just the tip. How far can she go before the boundaries start falling? It was just a kiss, just a hand cupping a breast or rubbing her bottom, just the feel of an erection rubbing against her. It was just going outside for some air. Just going to get some coffee to talk. Just going back to the hotel or friends house for some drinks. Just a bit of fun. Just exchanging contact information.
> 
> You should be able to trust her to not put herself in these scenarios. If my wife did this, I would see her as breaking trust just by doing this. So he can say I do trust you. I trust you not to engage in these activities and to now stay overnight at your friends.


i agree with you for some points, its a tough one


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Mestalla ... you know your girlfriend far better than anyone here, so trust your own judgment here. You either trust her or you don't. If you trust her, let her enjoy a night out with friends. If you don't, why are you with her in the first place? Can you imagine/do you want a long-term relationship or marriage with a woman you believe incapable of going out for a night without being unfaithful?
> (Side note: you definitely have some projection going on here).
> 
> As for the club thing ... Yep, there will be single guys looking for hookups. And drinking. And none of that will make anyone cheat if they don't want to. So, again, it comes down to your level of trust. Only you, not some strangers who don't know you or your girlfriend, can make that judgment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amen!

Yea, men have come up to talk to us (I mean, we're not dogs) and we just smile and ignore. it's not hard and they get the message. Can't control the men, only can control myself. (hahahah funniest sentence I've written today). But it's true. I control my actions. I'm not out for sex. I'm out to enjoy myself. No matter where that is. Karaoke bars are our fave places...and it's what it is. people will be there. Men will be there. Oh well. I'm not there for the men and hubs knows that.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> And this is the deal. They say that you need to trust them that they will not end up having sex, yet the activities themselves if it involves these are unfaithful in themselves. Going to a place that has this going on is probably inappropriate as it is risky. Actually rubbing up on other men is in my view unfaithful in itself. It is also the woman putting herself out there for attention from men that are trying to seduce her. She will enjoy the seduction. It is playing just the tip. How far can she go before the boundaries start falling? It was just a kiss, just a hand cupping a breast or rubbing her bottom, just the feel of an erection rubbing against her. It was just going outside for some air. Just going to get some coffee to talk. Just going back to the hotel or friends house for some drinks. Just a bit of fun. Just exchanging contact information.
> 
> You should be able to trust her to not put herself in these scenarios. If my wife did this, I would see her as breaking trust just by doing this. So he can say I do trust you. I trust you not to engage in these activities and to now stay overnight at your friends.


SICK! 


I don't know why a woman in a committed relationship would act that way with men. I DO know that if she acts this way, she's not committed. can't control it either way.

If you trust her, then shut up about it.

If you don't trust her, tell her and look into yourself...maybe it's time to move on.

That is, if this is what she's doing. I just can't fathom this! My friends aren't wh0res.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> i think you are right, thats really good advice. I should trust my instincts


Nature has put them there. It is a survival instinct we all have to one degree or another. 

Keep in mind that it is all about :

1) Instigation
The event itself.

2) Isolation
She is isolated from you with other men. Sure woman are there too. But this happens in increments. The big isolation is her not coming home.

3) Escalation
Escalation can occur from the above two. The other men are there to escalate things but the women are part of this as well. It is a dance of escalating steps that can be very subtle starting with flirting and encouraged by alcohol.

The other men have zero approach anxiety because they know the primary male ( that is you ) is isolated from their mate. The women let them know that they will not be going home tonight. So the guy can seduce and be long gone before the BF / husband knows about it. So with the help of his wingman and her wing woman stuff can happen. if not tonight the ground work is being laid for this life style.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> You see i think you are being a bit over dramatic, girls out together all the time, whether they are single or not, that dosnt mean they “rub up” against men or flirt. I agree it increases the risks of something happening, but whats the point if you cant trust someone, the person you are supposed to love.
> 
> Your view of what happens when girls go out is a bit of a stereotype, however the very fact im on this forum proves that i too at least in some don’t feel comfortable with the situation. I don’t however think its healthy to view having a drink and a dance with friends as such a sinister thing, any ladies on here have any advice? Are you girl nights really so deceitful?


Since you did not elaborate on her activities this is way to get you to validate this view or come clean with what the activities are.

What are they exactly? Do you know?


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> It's all about context. Most "guy time" that I know of is about a round of golf, or a sporting event. Maybe watching the Super Bowl at the sports bar. Usually, there aren't even any women around.
> 
> Many GNOs are about the OP's situation. Several women getting together, getting hammered in a club, and rubbing crotches against random men. That's not OK.


How is it your such an expert on the activities of married women on nights out?
Serious question ... when was the last time you actually were in a club? Did you hang out at a table at the edge of the dance floor to observe all the crotch rubbing going on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

WOW! I'm sure his gf is not such a moron that she is soooo easily seduced.

Holy crap. Women DO have a brain that they can chose to ignore the man or not. Doesn't matter what the men do when she's out of the house. She can say no. She's not a little girl who just says, "ok". Wow wow wow.

Even with alcohol, MOST WOMEN don't want men all over them like that. It's scary! Just to have some guy groping you, etc? Wow. I guess women must be soooo stupid and don't have a mind of their own, they just go with the flow 

I tell you what, if a man rubbed up on me (if i was in a club) or groped me, he'd have a black eye. Sick!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> How is it your such an expert on the activities of married women on nights out?
> Serious question ... when was the last time you actually were in a club? Did you hang out at a table at the edge of the dance floor to observe all the crotch rubbing going on?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl: Thank you!

I don't normally agree with you. (sorry) but this is so true. Holy crap.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Pit, how do you pick up correct things, man?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> so your issue would be that she is going out in the first place, not just the stay over? its really interesting reading these replys because for years i have felt like im being controlling and untrusting about this sort of thing. We are only 25, i honestly dont see a problem with her going out with her friends, the whole staying over thing is wrong though, i think im right about that


My wife goes out all of the time. If it involved hanging out with other men, she would not be my wife. Going out does not have to involve other men. Not sure why you sought to turn that into her going out. Sounds like you are looking to defend the GNO with other men life style. Is that what your thread is really about?

Do you go out with the guys and dance with other women and stay overnight at friends homes? Why not if not.

You have already shown by your own actions that this stuff happens.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Lots of people do shady things...then when their spouse wants to do something similar, they project the shadiness on their mate.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> the thing is, married women and people in relationships go away with friends all the time, a part of me thinks there is nothing wrong with staying at her friends house, women usually go away together on hen parties and stuff, am i being a bit old fashioned about this? Why shouldnt i trust her, she has given me no good reason not too


Wrong - not all married people go away or over night with friends.

If my wife told me she wanted to go away or even over night with the girls, I would tell her don't bother to come home after if she goes because the locks will be changed.

My wife exhibited the same lack of control when it came to alcohol early in our marriage (I had no idea before we were married). During the first year of marriage she twice got stinking drunk and did some things with guys WHILE I WAS THERE WITH HER. Honestly, If we were not married at the time I would have stopped dating her then and there. I blew up and she blamed it on the alcohol saying she would never have done that sort of thing sober but alcohol "lowers her inhibitions". I put my foot down. No drinking period if I am not around. No "time with the girls" if it involves going to clubs or bars. She was a little mad but that is MY boundary for her - live with it or hit the road now. My wife accepted it and we have been good since.

She may call you controlling and she may get mad but you have seen her behavior when drunk. I would be worried if this "party" is going to happen at a bar or club or any other "meat market" where there will be plenty of guys looking for a hook up.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Whoa whoa whoa.
> 
> Most Guy Time is golfing, and whatever? :rofl:
> 
> Ok. Well, that's not how I saw guys spending guy time when I was younger. But ok.


That's true. I was talking about guy time amongst married men. I haven't been in a club since I got married. Because I'm no longer looking for casual sex. That's what clubs are for.



that_girl said:


> And "many" GNO, as you say are done in clubs, etc. ...again, not in my circle.


That's why I said I didn't have problems with your version of GNO. I have a problem with the OP's girlfriend's version of GNO, which is in a club.



that_girl said:


> I really don't like how guy time is soooo innocent but women are evil and out to RUB UP on men!
> 
> Right. Ever heard "what happens in vegas stays in vegas"? that wasn't just for the women.
> 
> Maybe the men with bad vision of GNO have had issues with their mates about it and/or was cheated on during a GNO.


I apologize for offending your feminine sensibilities. Obviously, girls who leave their boyfriends or husbands at home in order to dance in a club and get so drunk they can't make it home have nothing but purity in their hearts. Maybe it's one of those popular waltz clubs in the city. I mean, I know crotch-rubbing is the dance style that gets all the press. But I'm sure that's just the patriarchy out to make women look bad.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow, for you men who dont' trust your wife going away with women...I'm sorry for you.

I say this as a married women who may someday go away with my sisters and friends for a spa weekend since we're all mommies, etc. We haven't gone yet because friends are still havin' babies (one in labor RIGHT NOW!  ) and we want to go enjoy a weekend away. Wihtout kids. To refresh.

Should my husband change the locks?

Wow.

i guess if you think your wife/gf is a skank or something, then I can see not trusting her.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> That's true. I was talking about guy time amongst married men. I haven't been in a club since I got married. Because I'm no longer looking for casual sex. That's what clubs are for.
> 
> 
> That's why I said I didn't have problems with your version of GNO. I have a problem with the OP's girlfriend's version of GNO, which is in a club.
> ...


Well, then women like this aren't ready to be in a relationship. They are stil window shopping for something better.

If you gf/wife is like this, then cut her loose. Why talk about it so much?

I respect my husband WAY TOO MUCH to even go to a place like that. Ew.

He knows it and I know it. hence, the trust.

But if your woman is doing these things, then...don't accept it and just break up. Living a life without trust is stupid.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> SICK!
> 
> 
> I don't know why a woman in a committed relationship would act that way with men. I DO know that if she acts this way, she's not committed. can't control it either way.
> ...


It happens. I have asked him what the activities actually include.
I think you are very clear on your boundaries. Unless you are his GF we have no idea what hers are. Right now knowing what his boundaries are is the main thing. Once he can define them he needs to talk with her about them.

Trying to get him to supply some specific information that he has not. It is left very vague. He did indicate she does not handle alcohol, well and that she is going to a DJ event and wants to stay overnight at her friends. She is very defensive about it. She is playing the trust card, which is fine.

Has he actually talked to her about this? I mean actually discussed the real boundaries. Have they discussed what is ok and what is not ok specifically. That is the point being made here. You exagerate the situation to try to see where the boundary is. 

Where is it? Do her boundaries match his. he indicated he had crossed some lines in the past himself.

If you have no discussion about boundaries you are left with perceptions only. Then in the heat of the moment you go with your alocohol clouded feelings.

That is why I suggested His Needs Her Needs and boundary setting. I think he should have an adult conversation with her before she goes. he should be very clear what he veiws s ok and what is not. Specifically.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Lots of people do shady things...then when their spouse wants to do something similar, they project the shadiness on their mate.


:iagree:

The "you spot it,you got it" attitude however doesn't disqualify them from making negative judgements based on other things.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

that_girl said:


> I respect my husband WAY TOO MUCH to even go to a place like that. Ew.
> 
> He knows it and I know it. hence, the trust.


Exactly my point. You respect your husband and wouldn't put yourself in a scenario where you are drunk and having to fend off the advances of men who want casual sex. The OP's girlfriend is planning for exactly that kind of night.

As to whether she will actually cheat, or not, is a separate question. Obviously, being drunk and having people approach you for sex increases the odds of infidelity. It is for that reason that it is inappropriate for married people to engage in such behavior.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, before he lynches his gf, he should know how she behaves...like Entropy said, BOUNDARIES...do they match? Do each of them know the limits expected?

but even if I did go to a club for an event or whatever, I would sit with a drink and chill. I'm a married woman and behave like one. Always.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> You see i think you are being a bit over dramatic, girls out together all the time, whether they are single or not, that dosnt mean they “rub up” against men or flirt. I agree it increases the risks of something happening, but whats the point if you cant trust someone, the person you are supposed to love.
> 
> Your view of what happens when girls go out is a bit of a stereotype, however the very fact im on this forum proves that i too at least in some don’t feel comfortable with the situation. I don’t however think its healthy to view having a drink and a dance with friends as such a sinister thing, any ladies on here have any advice? Are you girl nights really so deceitful?


Women in committed relationships *do not* go out together all the time to concerts and dancing. I my opinin this is inappropriate behaviour. I would not go out to bars or clubs without my SO and she should not either.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> WOW! *I'm sure his gf is not such a moron* that she is soooo easily seduced.
> 
> Holy crap. Women DO have a brain that they can chose to ignore the man or not. Doesn't matter what the men do when she's out of the house. She can say no. She's not a little girl who just says, "ok". Wow wow wow.
> 
> ...


I have met a lot of people in my time. There are all kinds. They come from all sorts of backgrounds and make all kinds of choices. The OP had his concerns. He has a gut feeling about this. He mentioned he had some past bouts himself with being less than entirely faithful. They are almost married but not actually. They are having arguments over her getting so drunk and needing to stay over her friends house. The event involves a DJ. Cool. Sounds like fun. Maybe we are assuming wrong there will be dancing. But does he know?

So from what little we have eeked out about her we can say that she may very well have a good brain, but that brain is asking her almost husband to accept her going out on a GNO to hear a DJ and that she will be so drunk ( disengaging that wonderful brain of hers ) and having to not come home to him. Does this cross his boundaries? Is he being setup for a precednet of this life style. This should not be minimized. What is that life style going to be. This seems to be something new.

We are not certain that other men will be there and she will not be dancing. It sounds just a little like clubbing. No? We also do not know of the other women are married or single. I could be wrong on this. She is technically single herself. It gets vague late at night, she is not wearing a wedding ring and when asked is she married she will say no but I have a BF. Sweet. If she is out with friends who are not married and more open to "you go girl" in a single life style she may not have that backup support from the others. He has not started. Peer pressure is key. I have to fight it myself a lot and so far I have been good. These are people that have brains but have different boundaries. 

As I stated before the big issue I would have is the staying over night. You had that too. I went on to say that while my wife has GNOs, it is unacceptable to me that that include hanging out with other men. That is my boundary. It has never been an issue for my marriage. Lucky me.

I think we are trying to help the OP with his boundaries. They are in conflict right now. Us telling to him trust her because she has a brain or not trust her because there are guys wanting to seduce her is not the immediate issue. What is he trustiung her to do or not do? Do her activities cross his boundaries? Idunno. He is unsure. He is trying to figure it out. He has stated what he is ok with, yet he seems to be concerned. He is under pressure to trust and not appear to be insecure. I am encouraging him to define his personal boundaries, communcate with his GF letting her know what is and is not acceptable to him. They need to discuss them. But his boundaries are his. We are saying that just as his GF has her right to her boundaries he has the right to his. He should be true to his boundaries.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Wow, for you men who dont' trust your wife going away with women...I'm sorry for you.
> 
> I say this as a married women who may someday go away with my sisters and friends for a spa weekend since we're all mommies, etc. We haven't gone yet because friends are still havin' babies (one in labor RIGHT NOW!  ) and we want to go enjoy a weekend away. Wihtout kids. To refresh.
> 
> ...


Ummmmm. You just changed the whole scenario.

I trust my wife to go away with women and not be hanging out with men.

Nowhere in your scenario does it say you are planinng on getting so drunk you cannot function in a place where there are male predators or that you are going clubbing.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

very few situations were men will not be around though, your logic there is wrong i feel, to not trust your wife to socialise where men may be isnt healthy, that means you dont trust what she would do, which isnt great is it. i mean does she work? there must be men around her at times, you cant say to someone you can go out but dont go anywhere that might have men around, thats very unhealthy


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

I think you are having a problem with it because when you "kissed some girls" before = you were drunk. 

Now your gf is going out to drink and sleep over.

Isn't it obvious?

You are afraid she is just like you---you know what can happen because you did it!

Sorry, Projection 101.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I think you are having a problem with it because when you "kissed some girls" before = you were drunk.
> 
> Now your gf is going out to drink and sleep over.
> 
> ...




thats part of it for sure, i like to think i have grown as a person since then but im not entirely happy with the relationship anymore


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I think you are having a problem with it because when you "kissed some girls" before = you were drunk.
> 
> Now your gf is going out to drink and sleep over.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Because of this,I have to say in answer to your question..you are out of order.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> very few situations were men will not be around though, your logic there is wrong i feel, to not trust your wife to socialise where men may be isnt healthy, that means you dont trust what she would do, which isnt great is it. i mean does she work? there must be men around her at times, you cant say to someone you can go out but dont go anywhere that might have men around, thats very unhealthy


Again this is not what I am saying anyway.

My wife does not drink alcohol or dance with other men at her work. She does not hang out with other men. Are you ok with your wife dancing and drinking with other men? If so then great, you guys are close on boundaries.

What do you mean by socialize? If socializing means out drinking in bars or clubs with other men, no I am not ok with that. It has no context within her work. If you think that is healthy then good for you. It is within your boundaries. It would not be healthy for my marriage.

I was just out with my colleagues from out of town. We did dinner and drinks. Seven guys ( no not dwarfs ) and one woman. Later that night I bowed out as they were headed to the Gentlemen's club. They typically drop a few hundred dollars each, get lap dances in the VIP room. Not my scene. My wife's boundary is that I look but do not touch. I went out in this situation because it was a planned work related event. Even if my wife was ok with me dropping the money and doing the lap dances I would not do that as that would be crossing my own personal boundary.

But back to you. This thread is about you. What is your boundary? My marriage is doing well. What are you ok with? Does your GF know and agree with the boundaries? Part of HNHN is to work the boundaries setting as a couple.

Have you guys actually talked about the specifics? Are you ok with your wife getting this drunk around men who are at the venue to hook up? Is this the actual case with the DJ?

So can we say that the only issue is that she wants to spend the night at her friends? Nothing else?


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

TBT said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Because of this,I have to say in answer to your question..you are out of order.


true


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> thats part of it for sure, i like to think i have grown as a person since then but im not entirely happy with the relationship anymore


Now we get to the root of the problem. You are not happy in the relationship and are looking for a reason to end it.

If this is the case - just tell her the truth and move on - do not try to drop the blame on her! 

Maybe you two can talk and work out your problems, maybe not. If her behavior is not acceptable, tell her so.

But if you can not come to an agreement of commitment to each other and set some behavior boundaries for both of you, it is best to move on separately.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Again this is not what I am saying anyway.
> 
> My wife does not drink alcohol or dance with other men at her work. She does not hang out with other men. Are you ok with your wife dancing and drinking with other men? If so then great, you guys are close on boundaries.
> 
> ...


it still proves that you dont really trust her though, thats how i feel. You have to control the fact that she dosnt go out drinking in a social environment, what if she did, do you think she would cheat?

I have talked about this issue with her, i didnt handle it very well and it turned into an argument. we havnt talked about it since. You are right though in many ways, a part of me isnt happy with the staying over bit, the going out bit is normal to me and every other couple that i know, i have a friend who is a girl and sometimes i socialise with her, her and her friend have been to clubs with me and my friends and it was just friendly fun. I think your vision of a nightclub is very extreme to be honest.

You are right though, i need to tell her exactly how i feel, what she does after that is up to her but it will go a long way to me deciding what to do in the longterm, thats for sure


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> thats part of it for sure, i like to think i have grown as a person since then but im not entirely happy with the relationship anymore


Then by all means do not have children together and do not get married. 

But beyond that, you have to decide why you are not entirely happy. What in your mind would change for you to be entirely happy? Is it you or is it her? Or just that you have grown apart. Would you be willing to improve the relationship?

If she gets the vibe that you are not entirely happy and commtitted to her, you are at further risk with her activities especially if there is a change in her life style. Just an opinion. She may find herself looking for another BF.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Then by all means do not have children together and do not get married.
> 
> But beyond that, you have to decide why you are not entirely happy. What in your mind would change for you to be entirely happy? Is it you or is it her? Or just that you have grown apart. Would you be willing to improve the relationship?
> 
> If she gets the vibe that you are not entirely happy and commtitted to her, you are at further risk with her activities especially if there is a change in her life style. Just an opinion. She may find herself looking for another BF.


i think we have both become a bit lazy, like alot of couples really, generally we are very good together, get on really well, i cant put my finger on what is wrong with me, because i have doubts about the whole thing, the other day she mentioned something about marriage and i kind off just blanked it out, for some reason i wont think about it any more, yet i was keen in the past. im almost certain she is a wonderful person and would be a great wife for me, i cant stop myself from second guessing everything though, maybe its me who has changed


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

AngryandUsed said:


> Pit, how do you pick up correct things, man?


What do you mean?


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## mrbiggz (Dec 21, 2011)

The question at hand is it reasonable for a man who is in a committed relationship to not want his woman to have a sleepover at her girlfriends after a GNO of drinking and dancing? 

IMHO it is reasonable without a doubt. OP, tell your SO that you don't feel comfortable with her being out all night and that you will pick her up. Why is it so imperative that she stay with the GF all night? If she agrees then make sure you know her gf's number and her phone is charged up. You don't want her not answering her phone at 2am and coming up with some lame excuse later. She get's to go out and "kick it" and you get your peace of mind have your woman at home - problem resolved


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Again this is not what I am saying anyway.
> 
> My wife does not drink alcohol or dance with other men at her work. She does not hang out with other men. Are you ok with your wife dancing and drinking with other men? If so then great, you guys are close on boundaries.


Entropy ... you and a couple of others continue to harp - some in more graphic terms than others - on some notion that OP's girlfriend will be doing things (dancing, groping, grinding) with other men.
Why is that? The OP certainly never said that. He said she was going to check out a DJ. Is it simply unfathomable to you that a woman can't go check out a DJ without grabbing some dude's schlong? Is such behavior to be assumed?
Dancing in a club where there happens to be men doesn't mean dancing "with" men. It's not like Saturday Night Fever anymore, where everybody pairs up to do the hustle.
No, if her stated intent was to get drunk and dance with other guys, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. But that's not the scenario that's been presented. 
Explain further, please.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> it still proves that you dont really trust her though, thats how i feel. You have to control the fact that she dosnt go out drinking in a social environment, what if she did, do you think she would cheat?
> 
> I have talked about this issue with her, i didnt handle it very well and it turned into an argument. we havnt talked about it since. You are right though in many ways, a part of me isnt happy with the staying over bit, the going out bit is normal to me and every other couple that i know, i have a friend who is a girl and sometimes i socialise with her, her and her friend have been to clubs with me and my friends and it was just friendly fun. I think your vision of a nightclub is very extreme to be honest.
> 
> You are right though, i need to tell her exactly how i feel, what she does after that is up to her but it will go a long way to me deciding what to do in the longterm, thats for sure


This is about you buddy. Trying to help you out.

There is this continuum:

Inappropriate Behavior -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating.

You can decide for yourself where the gray is at their transition.

First off we have agreed to boundaries. For my wife to do this would be a complete change to her behavior and life style. That in itself is a red flag my friend. The change. But it would be crossing boundaries as well. So for sure Inappropriate Behavior within our marriage. Putting oneself at risk. Now crossing a boundary is an unfaithful act. It is disrespectful as well. So my boundary has little to do with cheating. It has to do with being faithful and respectful. This type of behavior may or may not lead to an EA/PA. It would however in itself damage our marriage. 

You know it is not all about just c0ckblocking. It is about doing what is right for the couple, the marriage. 

What is cheating to you? What is unfaithful to you? What is inappropriate behavior to you? That is what matters.

I have been married for a very long time. I trust my wife more than anyone else on the planet. I have the benefit of much experience. I do not blindly trust anyone though. Not even myself. Not my wife either. Why? Because I love and respect her and want to spend the rest of my life together. I am protecting my marriage. I am helping my partner. Anyone can stray under the right circumstances. I do not attempt to control my wife. She has great freedoms. But if she started to want to do these activities then I would see this as a breach of trust in my marriage. There is no right or wrong. We have to decide for our selves. We only control ourselves.

Seriously read that book. His Needs her Needs. You need it. I believe in POJA. Policy of joint agreement. I am am a believer in strong boundaries. I learned this from experience. I believe in transaprency.

Marriage is not about trust alone. Trust is a by-product. Marriage is about love and respect. Commtiment to each other. Find those and you will not be so focused on blind trust. I like the trust but verify.

I trust my wife to not put herself into risky situations. She trusts me to act in the same way.
My trust is broken when my spouse would do this.

The "social" situation matters. It is one thing to be at a dinner with a group of work folks and another to be hanging out in a bar. They are both social.

You have to be honest with her. Hey how about this for messing with your mind ... Why do you not trust her to understand your concerns? Trust her with your feelings and your boundaries. If she loves and respects you she will work this out with you. So trust her in this way. You may be surprised either way. She may embrace this new intimacy with you or you may find you are not that big a priority to her.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> i think we have both become a bit lazy, like alot of couples really, generally we are very good together, get on really well, i cant put my finger on what is wrong with me, because i have doubts about the whole thing, the other day she mentioned something about marriage and i kind off just blanked it out, for some reason i wont think about it any more, yet i was keen in the past. im almost certain she is a wonderful person and would be a great wife for me, i cant stop myself from second guessing everything though, maybe its me who has changed


Have you checked out -> Married Man Sex Life

Relationships have an ebb and flow. You have to work to keep things exciting. Life also thows stuff at us that interferes.

If you have a good "center" of integrity about your self it is easier to weather all of this.

Hopefully you are spending quality time together.
It is important to meet each others needs. But you also have to keep the attraction going.

If she is having to go outside to social events to get an attention fix then that is less than ideal. She needs to see you as a very attractive male. Not a roommate.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

i think i have come to the conclusion that im not happy with her staying out all night, there is no need for this to happen at all. You make good points about different social situations and if im being honest with myself i feel the same way you do. Problem is that is considered quite a controlling way to be by alot of people these days.

Your advice has helped me decide what i want to do


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Entropy ... you and a couple of others continue to harp - some in more graphic terms than others - on some notion that OP's girlfriend will be doing things (dancing, groping, grinding) with other men.
> Why is that? The OP certainly never said that. He said she was going to check out a DJ. Is it simply unfathomable to you that a woman can't go check out a DJ without grabbing some dude's schlong? Is such behavior to be assumed?
> Dancing in a club where there happens to be men doesn't mean dancing "with" men. It's not like Saturday Night Fever anymore, where everybody pairs up to do the hustle.
> No, if her stated intent was to get drunk and dance with other guys, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. But that's not the scenario that's been presented.
> ...


I think I already addressed the reasons why I did exactly this. Sorry for the verbosity but I meant to cover it.

But in a nutshell I was trying to both show him the need for talking to his GF about boundaries and to understand what was really on tap for that night. Sometimes we are vague as not to be crude but then we are not entirely clear either. I mean there is dancing and there is dancing. Many men are fine with thier wives going out dancing but would not be ok if it was an intimate type of dancing. Especially with a large amount of alcohol.

I think modern situations call for more modern views on this. We live in a brave new world. Men need to adapt. Some men still put their women on a pedastal and we have found this is not what they want. So strong, confident assertive men will survive in my opinion.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

mestalla guy said:


> You make good points about different social situations and if im being honest with myself i feel the same way you do. Problem is that is considered quite a controlling way to be by alot of people these days.


Don't worry about other people. There are a lot of people out there and very few of them give a hoot about your relationship. Most people who bristle at the idea of respectful behavior within a relationship are just selfish and entitled brats. They think they should do whatever they want with no consequences.

Also, these people ignore the undeniable influence that environment has on behavior. Where is someone more likely to try drugs for the first time, the library, or a crack house? That's why your mother didn't want you going to crack houses. It wasn't because she thought you weren't the most precious snowflake that has ever lived. It's because she knew that even precious snowflakes can be influenced into behaving badly.



mestalla guy said:


> Your advice has helped me decide what i want to do


Good luck.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> i think i have come to the conclusion that im not happy with her staying out all night, there is no need for this to happen at all. You make good points about different social situations and if im being honest with myself i feel the same way you do. Problem is that is considered quite a controlling way to be by alot of people these days.
> 
> Your advice has helped me decide what i want to do


FWIW I think this is very reasonable on your part.

I listen to other opinions and constantly have an internal dialogue about it. I do not let that pressure me though. It is first between you and your SO. No one else matters. If you have a conflict with your SO, then you may have to fall back to your own integrity. Hopefully that does not happen.

So do your best to have that calm conversation with her. You are uncomfortable with the overnight. Tell her you are fine with the event but not with the overnight. This is not controlling her. This is trusting that she will do the right thing when she sees how important this is to you. Let us know how that turns out.


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## strikethree (Mar 8, 2012)

mestalla guy said:


> Geographically speaking there isn’t really a reason that she has to stay at the friends place at all. Her reasoning is that this event there are going to goes on to the early hours and it would be handier for her to stay over.
> *She dosnt seem willing to compromise with this and said there is no point going if she cant stay over*, i just dont see the logic in that really, maybe its just me. I need to learn to trust more and need your advice on this


Just ditch her OP. She is out looking for your replacement.

I can see no other explanation for why there's "no point in going if she can't 'sleep over'".


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

mestalla guy said:


> the thing is, married women and people in relationships go away with friends all the time, a part of me thinks there is nothing wrong with staying at her friends house, women usually go away together on hen parties and stuff, am i being a bit old fashioned about this? Why shouldnt i trust her, she has given me no good reason not too


Where the hell did youi get this idea? The first girls night out I ever heard of was about 1980. My buddy would go out one night, his wife another so one could stay home. Yes, I told him he was crazy. Two months later she had found another man and wanted a divorce.

Since then only ONE couple I know that did GNO/BNO is still together. She was among a group of five. Four divorces right there.

GNO's are for girls who are not in a committed relationship.

Good luck, but don't throw away any phone numbers, you will need them.

And, practice what you preach.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Metsalla, two comments. First, it sounds like you both have some unclear boundaries. You need to sit down w/ her and, in a loving fashion, discuss this. Second, I'm concerned about her drinking behavior- getting too trashed to come home is a red flag. My family is rife w/ alcoholics, and I know that this is one of the early warning signs.


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## mestalla guy (Mar 20, 2012)

Well just an update on how this has played out, after all this she decided not to go in the end, I didn't even get round to talking to her about it. I do honestly think I got the wrong end of the stick entirely on this one, and ended up feeling silly about it. 

My worry is that I'm the only one who has ever done any wrong in this relationship
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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