# 5 1/5 years on and how am I doing?



## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

I have not logged onto TAM for more than two years and I was mentioned in on Scuba_Steve's thread and made the mistake of walking through it. I hope my threads were helpful. I really just blasted through the OPs comments and those on here I came to highly respect, such as @GusPolinski but it was enough to bring back a lot of my own painful memories back. Which @Scuba_Steve 's situation was different he kind of reminded me of myself and my own nightmare. The pain and madness was surely familiar. The fact that reading something like this, or watching a moving with infidelity in it, can bring back some of that pain there is never a complete closure to it. But then unlike Scuba_Steve, I stayed with my wife. Was that the right choice? I can't say for sure. 



Has she cheated since the confrontation? I am sure she hasn't. 
Has my marriage transformed into everything I ever wanted in it? No, and to be honest she has not worked on herself like she promised.
Have we had good times? yes, many
Bad times? Yes, but not so many

keeping score is not proven to not be helpful to me.

Sometimes I regret not just cutting lose the first moment all this become a part of my life. Maybe my life would be better, or maybe I would crawling into a bottle with Scuba_Steve. Hard to say. But what I do know and what I can control is myself and in the almost six years since my nightmare I have done great things with my career and personal life. I can't get into details without eroding my anonymity to anyone that knows me, but its been good. I have expanded my horizons, become more confident, decisive, better able to set boundaries, and prioritize my needs even while being more compassionate to others. I am simply stronger than I was and even a different person. And while what my wife did was in no way my fault, my continuously working on what I can change, myself, has also exerted a positive force in our marriage and made it better. I don't know if I made the right choice, but I know I have good marriage and good life and that is a good measure of peace.

I also know one more thing with absolute certainty. If my wife so much as sneezes across that line of infidelity again, there will be no VARs, GPS trackers, internet surveillance, or hours spent clawing my own insides out trying to understand sociopathy. There will be a quick drive to the lawyer with a check in hand, and the ink on that check will be still be wet when her ass hits the metaphorical curb and out of my heart forever.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Staying is your choice. Many do that. Not everyone is cut out of the same cloth.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I've said many time before every willful tort, including cheating, has three elements, 1 motive, 2 rationalization, 3. opportunity. You need to find out the motive. Folks oftentimes are unwittingly looking for motive when they seek "all the details". Its not an effective way to discover motive. I can know all the details of how a fraud is perpetrated without ever discovering why the fraudster choose that course of action.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"Sometimes I regret not just cutting lose the first moment all this become a part of my life."

You know, just because you stayed with her then doesn't mean you need to continue doing that.
Especially since she didn't hold up her end of the bargain:
"No, and to be honest she has not worked on herself like she promised."

Even 5+ years out, and you STILL feel like this, it's sounds more like a marriage because it's less of a hassle than divorcing her.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> it's sounds more like a marriage because it's less of a hassle than divorcing her.


Yep. Sounds like....mine.... That was my basic reason to not divorce. It would have cost me too much, not only money, but kids, church, etc. Things which I wanted to continue. I didn't want a "new normal".....the one I had was just what I wanted.....


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Welcome back, Eggs!


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> "Sometimes I regret not just cutting lose the first moment all this become a part of my life."
> 
> You know, just because you stayed with her then doesn't mean you need to continue doing that.
> Especially since she didn't hold up her end of the bargain:
> "No, and to be honest she has not worked on herself like she promised."


But I want to stay with her. No, its not perfect but we will keep working on it.

Even 5+ years out, and you STILL feel like this, it's sounds more like a marriage because it's less of a hassle than divorcing her.[/QUOTE]

I thought I made it clear that things are good. And I look around to the couples I know and I don't know any of them that are in perfect relationships. And my parents relationship had issues, my wife parents where divorced. Sure lost of people look perfect on Facebook but you peel back the timeline and everyone is dealing with something. You seem to be applying a standard of purity and perfection that has never existed in my life or in most of the lives I can observe as examples. Whats the appropriate mental state for reconciliation? Infidelity is a whopper and there is no getting passed it, there is only moving beyond it. And it will always have the potential to be a painful memory divorce or not. That is blood already spilled. You move on, or crawl in the bottle with Scuba_Steve, or something like it. 

Thanks for the comment--I think.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ScrambledEggs said:


> But I want to stay with her. No, its not perfect but we will keep working on it.
> 
> Even 5+ years out, and you STILL feel like this, it's sounds more like a marriage because it's less of a hassle than divorcing her.
> 
> ...


Your post is kind of confusing though, you say things are good but then the title of the post is "how am I doing?" That seems inconsistent, I suspect a lot of us feel like if things were good you wouldn't be asking the question.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

ScrambledEggs said:


> But I want to stay with her. No, its not perfect but we will keep working on it.
> I thought I made it clear that things are good. Sorry Scrambled, I didn't get that from your post that things were good. My bad that I misinterpreted. And I look around to the couples I know and I don't know any of them that are in perfect relationships. And my parents relationship had issues, my wife parents where divorced. Sure lost of people look perfect on Facebook but you peel back the timeline and everyone is dealing with something. You seem to be applying a standard of purity and perfection that has never existed in my life or in most of the lives I can observe as examples. Whats the appropriate mental state for reconciliation? Infidelity is a whopper and there is no getting passed it, there is only moving beyond it. And it will always have the potential to be a painful memory divorce or not. That is blood already spilled. You move on, or crawl in the bottle with Scuba_Steve, or something like it.
> 
> Thanks for the comment--I think.


You are correct -- NOBODY has a perfect relationship -- we are humans, with all the human imperfections, and as such we can't have a perfect relationship -- I agree with you on that. I wasn't applying any sort of judgement on your relationship. I just read that you were pretty miserable (again, that's how I read it), and was just stating that if you were, you didn't have to stay that way, and that moving on didn't mean you had to stay married. That is your choice, and of course it IS your choice.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

As one that just returned myself, welcome back.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Your post is kind of confusing though, you say things are good but then the title of the post is "how am I doing?" That seems inconsistent, I suspect a lot of us feel like if things were good you wouldn't be asking the question.


hmm It is not really confusing to me. I came back here because, after several years, someone I used to correspond with sent me a DM and I got a notification. I then got sucked in and browsed a thread I was mentioned in. The subject was intended to be a rhetorical explanation for the post which was to explain how I am doing and not ask the question how am I doing. I am doing just fine.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

ScrambledEggs said:


> hmm It is not really confusing to me. I came back here because, after several years, someone I used to correspond with sent me a DM and I got a notification. I then got sucked in and browsed a thread I was mentioned in. The subject was intended to be a rhetorical explanation for the post which was to explain how I am doing and not ask the question how am I doing. I am doing just fine.


It goes against the grain here on TAM to say you decided to R and things are going well despite that your partner hasn't lived up to his or her promises. The general rule here seems to be that the guilty partner has to be perfect or else should be kicked to the curb. You've introduced a dose of realism that is refreshing to see. I'm very glad that you're better off now than you were before, and that despite her not doing as promised (which I assume was a requirement for R), the decision apparently still seems correct.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I read some of your posts from 5 years ago and I can't understand why you're still with her. She never showed remorse and ignored the conditions you laid out for her. She seems like she has a heart of stone until she sees her gravy train leaving the station. Then she turns on some temporary emotions and reels you back in so that the rugsweeping continues. 

You could have spent the last 5 years pursuing relationships with women who had real character and a capacity to love.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

Scrambled Eggs, I think you made the right decision to stay in your marriage and give your wife another chance. No marriage is perfect and everyone has flaws and weaknesses. You have brought a sense of realism to this forum, because you are being vulnerable. You are showing other people that it is okay to give your spouse another chance and this isn't a sign of weakness. You have grown so much since the day you discovered the affair. As hurtful as that was you were able to push through the pain and give your wife another chance. I hope your wife knows how lucky she is to have you as a husband. 

I also believe that many people in the same situation that you were in would give their spouse another chance. There is nothing wrong with this. I gave my husband another chance. If my husband decided to cheat on me again. I would leave in a heartbeat. That is a promise that I have made to myself. I couldn't go through this pain a second time.

I am proud of you Scrambled Eggs. Thank you for coming back to this forum and sharing your update with us. TAM needs to have more positive outcomes/reconciliation stories on this forum to give others hope! Things can change and improve! Marriage is never perfect, but if we all strive to make it stronger and better, than we are headed in the right direction!

Best of luck to you!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Comparing a marriage that is not perfect to one with an affair in it is setting the bar predictable very very low.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Scrambled Eggs, if you don't mind (If you DO just tell me that -- no worries), can you explain how you decided to R instead of D?

I went and looked at a few of your threads from 2015, and it seemed pretty clear that you were planning to divorce. She had TWO PA's, was giving only token effort to reconciliation, and it seemed clear (at least in this thread -- a year later: https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/262170-1-year-ea-still-clouds-my-mind-4.html) that you were planning to divorce and move on.

What happened to make you decide to stay with her? I am NOT questioning it, I am curious about the process/logic you went through to arrive at that conclusion (it may help others also who are facing the same issues).


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

It sounds like he has been feeding his bad wolf.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> It goes against the grain here on TAM to say you decided to R and things are going well despite that your partner hasn't lived up to his or her promises. The general rule here seems to be that the guilty partner has to be perfect or else should be kicked to the curb. You've introduced a dose of realism that is refreshing to see. I'm very glad that you're better off now than you were before, and that despite her not doing as promised (which I assume was a requirement for R), the decision apparently still seems correct.


Life is a work in progress. Its not accurate to say she has not made any changes but has not done some of them. And it was the not trust related stuff, more having to do with economics.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ScrambledEggs said:


> Life is a work in progress. Its not accurate to say she has not made any changes but has not done some of them. And it was the not trust related stuff, more having to do with economics.


Hi, @ScrambledEggs good to see you again.

Life isn't perfect nut we do the best with what we have.

The problem is that some on TAM like to think of all cheaters as monsters.

And what do we do with monsters?










And, that's not particularly helpful in all cases, is it?


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Tatsuhiko said:


> You could have spent the last 5 years pursuing relationships with women who had real character and a capacity to love.



This is what is called a 'narrative'. Narratives are powerful because they appear to take wisdom and narrow it into a conclusion or obvious course of action. Narratives, good ones, are usually at least partly true, but so summarize the situation we need to be cautious about running our lives by them. Though I agree that I could have walked the path laid out in this narrative and perhaps found something 'better'. 

But this narrative reduces my wife the worst things she has ever done to me. It ignores the good things about her as well as my strong feelings for her. Granted, those feelings would be irrational if she was still hurting me and manipulating trust. It also seems to value the material benefits of what I might find in another partner over the feelings I have for her. That in itself seems like an incompatible way to relate to people you care about. 

I probably could have switched off my feelings for her and made the decision to leave on practical/moral grounds. But this is not a decision you make like a new mortgage or what retirement plan to use. If you allow it to be, it is an emotionally complex decision. 

If she hurts me again, I will come here and confess it. But it won't hurt me nearly as much as it did--too much scar tissue and my response to divorce will be swift and decisive. But I don't think that will be the case.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Or some of us have read this story long enough to know that if a cheater doesn't make a very strong effort to change their patterns of behavior, like someone addicted to alcohol, the chances of it happening again years later are strong. And if they don't even acknowledge that there issues at all, then you are really taking a chance. 

Also lots of times when BS don't deal with these issues by talking and really getting them out they resentment can show back up years letter. It's a hard way to live. 

But it's his life.


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

Struggling with marriage 10 years after reconciliation because my husband continues to lie and deceive. I don't believe he is doing the deed, but I think I am the last woman on his mind. If I say that to him, he gets mad and tells me how hard he works and we will have to talk about his career for an hour. He thinks I am some type of life coach. Anyway, I would not recommend this hell. If my husband cheats, it's a hard stop, but I have been married for 30 years and I am old so....well...my sense of self no longer exists....I am a little housewife who cooks for her husband and tries to carve out a life in the hours that he is at work. 
When he comes home, my job begins.. 

If you feel this way now, just get out. There is no need to cling to a mistake because you took a long time making it. 

Sorry to babble about me. Hope things work out for you.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> Scrambled Eggs, if you don't mind (If you DO just tell me that -- no worries), can you explain how you decided to R instead of D?
> 
> I went and looked at a few of your threads from 2015, and it seemed pretty clear that you were planning to divorce. She had TWO PA's, was giving only token effort to reconciliation, and it seemed clear (at least in this thread -- a year later: https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/262170-1-year-ea-still-clouds-my-mind-4.html) that you were planning to divorce and move on.
> 
> What happened to make you decide to stay with her? I am NOT questioning it, I am curious about the process/logic you went through to arrive at that conclusion (it may help others also who are facing the same issues).


Its not a process I can walk you through like choosing which college to attend. I had a not of anger and vented it her back then. Most of it was absolutely true while I was writing it. I did not journal my experience in moving beyond that, in part because the anger and pain started subside and I did not need to vent. The process was gradual, there was not some eureka moment where I said, "everything will be fine".

I was a bit terrified at opening that old thread back up to what it might dredge up but it was OK though. And looking at it the process is a little clearer.

The first thing I did was stop monitoring. I had surveillance on her like the NSA would watch a terrorist for almost a year and it was exhausting and perpetuated the agony. I just stopped one day. And even though I did not stop at the time with optimism that everything would be fine, I just could not spend the time and energy. I just let it go. It had been over a year since she had contact with the AP. This was a huge weight off me because the there was a psychic load to the time and effort spent monitoring her but also for the constant violation of her privacy. As long as this was going on, normalcy was impossible.

But I also let it all go --emotionally-- the anger, the pain, the shame ect.. because I had too. I just could not do it any longer. It was all exhausting and I stopped caring about the consequences of checking out. I somewhat expected that this letting this go, would also end my marriage. In retrospect, I could have just as easily got a divorce at this point. The world was in ashes and I really did not care all that much. But what I really wanted to do was work on myself and not think about my screwed up marriage anymore.

These two things gave me the time and energy to start working on myself, and paying attention to my own happiness, my own goals and aspirations. I became much more decisive and prioritized my needs and wants. I was much less concerned about what my wife wanted and her happiness and it felt good. You could say I finally did a full 180 and moved onto a whole new life and, as it turned out, my wife, then my marriage, and then finally my feelings for her all followed me to that place and a new relationship was built out of that better balanced my needs. 

It might be the sense of empowerment of remaking my life and world that allows me to move past the past.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

ScrambledEggs said:


> I have not logged onto TAM for more than two years and I was mentioned in on Scuba_Steve's thread and made the mistake of walking through it. I hope my threads were helpful. I really just blasted through the OPs comments and those on here I came to highly respect, such as @GusPolinski but it was enough to bring back a lot of my own painful memories back. Which @Scuba_Steve 's situation was different he kind of reminded me of myself and my own nightmare. The pain and madness was surely familiar. The fact that reading something like this, or watching a moving with infidelity in it, can bring back some of that pain there is never a complete closure to it. But then unlike Scuba_Steve, I stayed with my wife. Was that the right choice? I can't say for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you've changed for the better, which is great, but what about your wife? Would you say that she is fully invested in the marriage, as demonstrated by real action? Has she changed her lying, addressed her difficulty with emotional intimacy? 

I think some of the responses you're seeing are because reading between the lines of what you wrote, there is a notable undertone of resignation and your writing suggests that you settled for your wife with a sort of "devil you know" rationalization. No, there is no winning solution when your spouse cheats, but your posts in this thread suggest that the good things in your life right now (including what's good about your marriage) are because YOU have put in the work (or taken the lead), not your wife. You've listed a number of things that you have changed for the better, but not a single thing that your wife has done.

I hope that I (and others) are simply misreading your words and tone and that your wife is working just as hard on herself and your marriage. Either way, thank you for coming back and sharing more of your story.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Satisfied Mind said:


> So you've changed for the better, which is great, but what about your wife? Would you say that she is fully invested in the marriage, as demonstrated by real action? Has she changed her lying, addressed her difficulty with emotional intimacy?
> 
> I think some of the responses you're seeing are because reading between the lines of what you wrote, there is a notable undertone of resignation and your writing suggests that you settled for your wife with a sort of "devil you know" rationalization. No, there is no winning solution when your spouse cheats, but your posts in this thread suggest that the good things in your life right now (including what's good about your marriage) are because YOU have put in the work (or taken the lead), not your wife. You've listed a number of things that you have changed for the better, but not a single thing that your wife has done.
> 
> I hope that I (and others) are simply misreading your words and tone and that your wife is working just as hard on herself and your marriage. Either way, thank you for coming back and sharing more of your story.



Of course I have settled--thats what it means to be human and imperfect in a relationship with someone that is also human and imperfect. And you can't be happy if you don't settle, unless you are implying that perfection is a thing (see image below for appropriate context). If you don't settle you are always at war with the imperfections in your life. We are all going to die struggling on some metaphorical hill. Choose your hill.

I appreciate the spirit you are coming into this, but what are you guys trying to say? That I am experiencing false happiness? That she will cheat again? That universe will care when I am gone how I prosecuted the slights done upon me, even by those I have cared for? There is always risk, but really folks I am doing just fine.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ScrambledEggs said:


> Of course I have settled--thats what it means to be human and imperfect in a relationship with someone that is also human and imperfect. And you can't be happy if you don't settle, unless you are implying that perfection is a thing (see image below for appropriate context). If you don't settle you are always at war with the imperfections in your life. We are all going to die struggling on some metaphorical hill. Choose your hill.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate the spirit you are coming into this, but what are you guys trying to say? That I am experiencing false happiness? That she will cheat again? That universe will care when I am gone how I prosecuted the slights done upon me, even by those I have cared for? There is always risk, but really folks I am doing just fine.




Maybe you could clarify the things you wanted her to do to reconcile, why she didn’t do those things, and why you still successfully reconciled.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

I think what Scrambled Eggs is trying to say is that we are all imperfect and we all make mistakes. We all "settle" because life is about compromising. Sometimes we are hurt by people who we love. Life happens. Life can be cruel, but we can choose to make the best of what has been given to us. We all struggle.

Sometimes forgiving others such as our spouse is more for "us". Forgiving other people's sins and letting go the pain is necessary if we want to enjoy life.

Scrambled Eggs made a decision to stay with his wife because he finds happiness with her. SE was very clear and stated that if she ever cheated on him again he wouldn't hesitate to divorce her, because she already was given a chance. I believe that most people should be given another chance. Marriage is a bond that needs to be polished and waxed to see the glow and beauty. 

I am grateful that SE came back here to give other people hope. Not every marriage is destroyed by an affair. The marriage can become stronger if the spouse is remorseful.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Susie42 said:


> I think what Scrambled Eggs is trying to say is that we are all imperfect and we all make mistakes. We all "settle" because life is about compromising. Sometimes we are hurt by people who we love. Life happens. Life can be cruel, but we can choose to make the best of what has been given to us. We all struggle.
> 
> Sometimes forgiving others such as our spouse is more for "us". Forgiving other people's sins and letting go the pain is necessary if we want to enjoy life.
> 
> ...


I think also that he's a bit of a realist and doesn't live in the binary world that often exists here on TAM. Sometimes, threads on TAM read as if the only joy in post-affair life comes from the destruction of the offender. And even that doesn't see to bring long-term happiness, just a sense of justice that doesn't allow most to re-enter the mainstream.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Marduk said:


> Maybe you could clarify the things you wanted her to do to reconcile, why she didn’t do those things, and why you still successfully reconciled.



Hey Marduk! I remember you.

Heres the thing. There are 10's of thousands of posts on TAM, some of them mine, were wronged spouses twist, rage, second guess, judge, weigh, debate, argue, and evaluate. All this with the idea of trying to measure if some proper cost was paid or commitment was demonstrated, to earn R". My message here is, it really does not matter. The whole process of processing that pain is important and meaningful and can be instrumental in answering the question if they will hurt you again. But aside form that, being "right" about some arbitrary standard of contrition is not helpful to finding peace and happiness. So I am not going to add to that further if I can help it. What matters to your happiness, and this presumes that you have reached a level of certainty that your spouse will not cheat again as I have, is that you can let it go and move on. The choice of R or D is not relevant to you being happy. It is just a choice 

And as @Scuba_Steve demonstrates, divorce is no guarantee of a better life. What is a guarantee, divorce or not, is that you decide its time to start having a better a life and you go have have one regardless of the past.
@Scuba_Steve, if you ever come back, I apologize for abusing your name so much. I don't doubt you are fine and did not really crawl into a bottle evidence by the fact you have not returned here. TAM tends to be the refuge of those carrying a lot of pain. If your not sick, you don't go to the hospital.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ScrambledEggs said:


> But I want to stay with her. No, its not perfect but we will keep working on it.


You say 'we' but in your first post you say she didn't hold up her end of the bargain. What are you going to do about that?


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

turnera said:


> You say 'we' but in your first post you say she didn't hold up her end of the bargain. What are you going to do about that?



Why do I have to do anything about it?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Eggs, you are here for a reason, and that reason isn't to tell us that you've reconciled. She hasn't kept up her end of the bargain, and you can't seem to figure out what, if anything, you are going to do about it. I predict that, without a radical change on your part, you'll be back here next year with the same problem. And it is a problem precisely because you are here. As I posted earlier, don't feed your bad wolf.
Feed the good one.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

ScrambledEggs said:


> I have expanded my horizons, become more confident, decisive, better able to set boundaries, and prioritize my needs even while being more compassionate to others. I am simply stronger than I was and even a different person. And while what my wife did was in no way my fault, my continuously working on what I can change, myself, has also exerted a positive force in our marriage and made it better. I don't know if I made the right choice, but I know I have good marriage and good life and that is a good measure of peace.


In the end this is what matters most I think.... 
I am 6y out and also stayed, thou my wife did a lot of work on herself and also endured a cancer scare n recovery. We have such a different and more mature relationship that am already having difficulty remembering what we were like before her A. I have also better myself and since her A my career has grown, am now a VP and make almost double what I used to 6y ago.... 
Also we have added a ton of new memories and experiences that only help lessen the remembrance of this difficult early times post her A. However Is not forgotten by any means, but it no longer stings like it used to, mostly a memory but one that doesn't trigger emotions hardly at all anymore.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ScrambledEggs said:


> Why do I have to do anything about it?


Because it's a sign of discontent for you. In other words, you are skating in a marriage where you are not getting what you want, not all of it. So you have sat back, said nothing (I presume), and waited for her to step up - and she hasn't.

That is where it behooves you to educate yourself on boundaries and consequences. It's easier when you're raising a child or dealing with a work situation, but the concept still holds for a marriage. You want X, she won't do X, so you have to decide what you're going to do about it. You have a couple choices - accept the status quo and survive in a so-so marriage for the rest of your life, or state what you're expecting from her (boundary - either what you expect to get or what you won't tolerate), explain what will happen if you don't GET that from her (the consequence you enact once that threshold is broken - a consequence that YOU take for yourself, not something you do "to" her, as it doesn't require her acceptance or participation [thus not giving away your power]), and then sit back and wait for her to make her choice.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Your wife needed to step up. She should have been groveling and doing everything necessary to convince you to stay. Instead she just sort acted "upset" briefly and then went about her business. My sense is that it's gnawing at you, which is why you came here.

You have a right to be happy. You have the right to a full-fledged wife who is eager to see you happy. Maybe your wife can become that person, but so far she hasn't put forth any effort.

This is why so many people in here recommend filing D right away. It requires the cheater to show their hand. It brings things to a point where either D or R happens, and there is at least some kind of closure. Right now you're in limbo and that's no way to live.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Before we continue to beat up eggs for a problem he may not be having... why don’t we ask him what exactly he wanted that she didn’t do?

And if she’s perhaps done that in a different way that has made it reasonable for him to stay and to be happy?

He’s always struck me as a reasonable guy. Maybe there’s something we can learn from him.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

I think some people are judging Egg's decision to stay married too harshly! This is a success story and I am happy that Egg's marriage was able to be saved and that he is happy!

Eggs mentioned that his wife didn't follow through on economics. I'm assuming this means getting a job. Obviously, Eggs doesn't feel that this is a deal breaker so he is staying in his marriage. Who are we to judge him?


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

I disagree with [email protected] Eggs is only here to give us an update on his marriage. That's it. You are over thinking Egg's post. I'm happy Eggs came back to give us an update. It gave me hope for my marriage.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Eggs, you are here for a reason, and that reason isn't to tell us that you've reconciled. She hasn't kept up her end of the bargain, and you can't seem to figure out what, if anything, you are going to do about it. I predict that, without a radical change on your part, you'll be back here next year with the same problem. And it is a problem precisely because you are here. As I posted earlier, don't feed your bad wolf.
> Feed the good one.


I explained in the OP why I am here right now. Private messages pulled me back and I thought I would write a note. Everything since the OP is just answering questions. I am not here to work anything out. You might be right, my marriage might not work out. There are always risks to living and making any choice. I'd come back here and admit it if that happens, and even ask for advice. But I am never going to be that messed up again over a relationship.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

turnera said:


> Because it's a sign of discontent for you. In other words, you are skating in a marriage where you are not getting what you want, not all of it. So you have sat back, said nothing (I presume), and waited for her to step up - and she hasn't.
> 
> That is where it behooves you to educate yourself on boundaries and consequences. It's easier when you're raising a child or dealing with a work situation, but the concept still holds for a marriage. You want X, she won't do X, so you have to decide what you're going to do about it. You have a couple choices - accept the status quo and survive in a so-so marriage for the rest of your life, or state what you're expecting from her (boundary - either what you expect to get or what you won't tolerate), explain what will happen if you don't GET that from her (the consequence you enact once that threshold is broken - a consequence that YOU take for yourself, not something you do "to" her, as it doesn't require her acceptance or participation [thus not giving away your power]), and then sit back and wait for her to make her choice.


Are we living in the same universe? Where are these wives and husbands that perfectly meet each-other's expectations. I don't know a single person in the world without flaws. In some friends it took decades to see past the walls and the issues underneath, but they are there. Everyone is pretty too much or too little of something, especially in the judgement of others and I am personally no exception to this either. And a damn lot of people that we love, have real destructive issues. Thank god I am not in that boat.

This is the sort of thinking that really keeps therapists employed. We can be prisoners of our expectations, though in many cases we can just let issues go and be no worse for it than no longer being burdened by the suffering of it. I am no Buddhist, but I get that part of their message. 

The point being, you just have to decide what you can live with and then happiness is a choice. Of course, I will continue to work on the marriage. But throw in the drama of divorce to enforce my own discipline? Or, treat her like a child? That's not love either is it? Well maybe to the red pill guys it is, but they only have relationships half right and the wrong part is really wrong. 

I appreciate everyones concern. And I did not come back here to be controversial. But now remembering TAM I should not be surprised. All in all, what I am saying is happiness is a choice, regardless. I don't advocate having no boundaries of course, but I won't police all of them like prison walls.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

All I'm seeing is someone standing next to his overturned, smoking car on the shoulder of the highway. As the other cars whiz past, he watches and notes that no car he sees is perfect. Since none of them are perfect, all is fine.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I never said you should strive for a perfect marriage. I said you should voice your feelings in order to have a fair and balanced relationship. That NOT sharing your feelings usually leads to resentment and shades a relationship. Your choice to have a marriage in which you are not being heard.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Good to see you back Eggs, everyone needs to lighten the hell up. If you need advice, you will ask.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ScrambledEggs said:


> Are we living in the same universe? Where are these wives and husbands that perfectly meet each-other's expectations. I don't know a single person in the world without flaws. In some friends it took decades to see past the walls and the issues underneath, but they are there. Everyone is pretty too much or too little of something, especially in the judgement of others and I am personally no exception to this either. And a damn lot of people that we love, have real destructive issues. Thank god I am not in that boat.
> 
> This is the sort of thinking that really keeps therapists employed. We can be prisoners of our expectations, though in many cases we can just let issues go and be no worse for it than no longer being burdened by the suffering of it. I am no Buddhist, but I get that part of their message.


I don't know, I just expect my wife not to cheat on me. It's really not that hard.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Did you ever explore other options? You didnt let her have all the fun did you?


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

turnera said:


> I never said you should strive for a perfect marriage. I said you should voice your feelings in order to have a fair and balanced relationship. That NOT sharing your feelings usually leads to resentment and shades a relationship. Your choice to have a marriage in which you are not being heard.


I understand you are trying to be helpful and I appreciate it. But I think you misreading me and never said I would be not be sharing my feelings. In fact I said in the OP: 

"I have expanded my horizons, become more confident, decisive, *better able to set boundaries, and prioritize my needs even *while being more compassionate to others. I am simply stronger than I was and even a different person. And while what my wife did was in no way my fault, my continuously working on what I can change, myself, has also exerted a positive force in our marriage and made it better."


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Did you ever explore other options? You didnt let her have all the fun did you?



Of course not. I have never cultivated a relationship with another women since I have been married. In the time we have been married I have probably restrained six or so relationships with friends and co-workers that felt like they were moving toward an emotional or physical affair. Why put yourself on that level?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

ScrambledEggs said:


> Of course not. I have never cultivated a relationship with another women since I have been married. In the time we have been married I have probably restrained six or so relationships with friends and co-workers that felt like they were moving toward an emotional or physical affair. Why put yourself on that level?


You say "Of course not" in response to whether you entertained any ideas of an EA or PA yourself, but after reading enough threads on TAM, you get to realize there's something amiss with both parties in many relationships. Not always simultaneously, but sometimes when one party has one foot planted elsewhere, things start turning south in general and the other party, through neglect or whatever, may find less will power to resist temptation.

You are unusual in that you are both principled and forgiving. The two don't always go together.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Interesting thread this.

It seems that Eggs has resigned himself to the way things are (in his mind, at least).

He seems to be saying that he has got himself to a point where it doesn't matter to him whether his wife is doing what she said or not. Kind of like giving up on the idea of a perfect (or even near perfect) marriage because it is not achievable and therefore no need to strive for it.

His coping mechanism seems to come from however he expanded his horizons etc. So in short, he does not care enough to divorce her since there is also some good in her. 

To each their own, I guess but for many of us, it is the striving towards a perfect or near perfect marriage that helps us stay on the right path and achieve happiness and fulfilment.

I, like many others, suspect that he has thrown the towel in to some extent and is focussed on "other" things in his personal and working life. Good luck to him.

Coming back here may also have something to do with justifying his decision to himself.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> You say "Of course not" in response to whether you entertained any ideas of an EA or PA yourself, but after reading enough threads on TAM, you get to realize there's something amiss with both parties in many relationships. Not always simultaneously, but sometimes when one party has one foot planted elsewhere, things start turning south in general and the other party, through neglect or whatever, may find less will power to resist temptation.
> 
> You are unusual in that you are both principled and forgiving. The two don't always go together.


I understand. In fact I did entertain those ideas. At times in my life I have wondered if it is not character but rather just fear or a lack of courage to be that selfish because I have surely wanted, just never acted. I am going with character because I can only live my life once. 

Aside from that, I am not the perfect partner either. I can be selfish with my time and while I can share my deepest thoughts, I spend a lot of life turned inward. I have had a low level emotional intelligence for most of life. I don't read or understand others emotions very well, which means I often miss out and often wonder, is it me or them/her. I have my quirks, but it's nothing destructive or abusive. Getting better at those things also.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> Interesting thread this.
> 
> It seems that Eggs has resigned himself to the way things are (in his mind, at least).
> 
> ...


I am not going to respond in detail to misunderstandings that I have already addressed. If you are interested in my what my response to you might be you only need to read the entire thread. That last sentence is a give away that you have not read it.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

sokillme said:


> I don't know, I just expect my wife not to cheat on me. It's really not that hard.


Am with you on that, plus even if I wouldn't care and let my wife cheat you still run the risk of diseases and of some crazy posses of betrayed spouse that comes after you and your family.... It surprises how much people don't take into account the inherent health risks of affairs plus the fact that they can cause severe bodily injury and/or death is some cases...


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Am with you on that, plus even if I wouldn't care and let my wife cheat you still run the risk of diseases and of some crazy posses of betrayed spouse that comes after you and your family.... It surprises how much people don't take into account the inherent health risks of affairs plus the fact that they can cause severe bodily injury and/or death is some cases...



The last post in this thread is not going to be one that implies I am OK with my wife cheating, that there is any question that it is still going --its not, and that that would not be a deal breaker in my marriage. I realize that @sokillme 's comment and this might refer to the idea that R should be out of the question in the case of an affair--fair enough, but it reads like you think the affairs continued.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ScrambledEggs said:


> The last post in this thread is not going to be one that implies I am OK with my wife cheating, that there is any question that it is still going --its not, and that that would not be a deal breaker in my marriage. I realize that @sokillme 's comment and this might refer to the idea that R should be out of the question in the case of an affair--fair enough, but it reads like like you think the affairs continued.


My quote is a direct reflection to your quote - 



> Are we living in the same universe? Where are these wives and husbands that perfectly meet each-other's expectations. I don't know a single person in the world without flaws. In some friends it took decades to see past the walls and the issues underneath, but they are there. Everyone is pretty too much or too little of something, especially in the judgement of others and I am personally no exception to this either. And a damn lot of people that we love, have real destructive issues. Thank god I am not in that boat.
> 
> This is the sort of thinking that really keeps therapists employed. We can be prisoners of our expectations, though in many cases we can just let issues go and be no worse for it than no longer being burdened by the suffering of it. I am no Buddhist, but I get that part of their message.


My point being, expecting your spouse to remain faithful really doesn't have anything to do with expectations of them being "too something" or "not something" else, it's basically the baseline of marriage. No one is asking too much or really anything at all when you ask someone to fulfill vows that they willingly took. Everything else is just irreverent to this central point, if you made a vow, keep it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

double post


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

sokillme said:


> , if you made a vow, keep it.


Or respectfully admit you are unable to maintain it and end it with dignity 

Sent from my SHT-W09 using Tapatalk


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

OP, choosing to cheat is not about just having flaws. Flaws are imperfections that come naturally to us and that can be improved with time.

*Cheating,* on the other hand, is *NOT *a flaw - but instead, it's a choice. You don't choose to have flaws, but you choose to act in a way or stop acting in another. Cheating fits within the category of "choosing to do inappropriate things behind SO's back".

So, while you say nobody's perfect, cheating can't be used as an argument "_you know...one of those flaws. Little ones...cheathing for example. It's okay. We all have them.._."
You can't diminish the deliberate choice to hurt someone, which is everything but a flaw.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

sokillme said:


> My quote is a direct reflection to your quote -
> 
> 
> 
> My point being, expecting your spouse to remain faithful really doesn't have anything to do with expectations of them being "too something" or "not something" else, it's basically the baseline of marriage. No one is asking too much or really anything at all when you ask someone to fulfill vows that they willingly took. Everything else is just irreverent to this central point, if you made a vow, keep it.



Ok, then we agree on this.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

lovelygirl said:


> OP, choosing to cheat is not about just having flaws. Flaws are imperfections that come naturally to us and that can be improved with time.
> 
> *Cheating,* on the other hand, is *NOT *a flaw - but instead, it's a choice. You don't choose to have flaws, but you choose to act in a way or stop acting in another. Cheating fits within the category of "choosing to do inappropriate things behind SO's back".
> 
> ...



I agree completely. The "nobody's perfect comment" was in context with behavioral and material goals from the R, untreated to affairs, that have not been met yet.

Many want to read this like I am resigned to her having further affairs--I am not.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Listen, I don’t know why people are trying to convince this guy to divorce his wife. 

I don’t know if you guys remember him, but I do. Go through his threads. He wasn’t just contemplating divorcing her, he was doing it. Like, actively doing it.

Then he decided to reconcile even though she didn’t do everything he wanted her do to. 

Go back and read his threads. He’s a reasonable guy with a head on his shoulders. Cut him some slack. He’s found some peace. It seems like she hasn’t cheated again, nor will do so. So I think it’s reasonable to expect that even if she didn’t do everything he wanted, she still did do a bunch of stuff to pull him back from that brink.

I’m no cheating apologist. But I know he was ready to go and then didn’t. He’s found peace. He says they are happy. Isn’t this a good thing?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Marduk said:


> Go back and read his threads. He’s a reasonable guy with a head on his shoulders. Cut him some slack. He’s found some peace. It seems like she hasn’t cheated again, nor will do so.


Can I ask why you think that? I mean I am always surprised that that is the assumption, when you read on these boards all the time and lots and lots of BS do cheat again sometimes years and even decades later. It's like if the WS says sorry with enough conviction then that is all it take. I think the default assumption should be they WILL cheat again because it's in their nature. 

In my mind it would be much wiser to see if they are willing to do the hard work and use that as an indicator, not words or even emotions.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Can I ask why you think that? I mean I am always surprised that that is the assumption, when you read on these boards all the time and lots and lots of BS do cheat again sometimes years and even decades later. It's like if the WS says sorry with enough conviction then that is all it take. I think the default assumption should be they WILL cheat again because it's in their nature.
> 
> In my mind it would be much wiser to see if they are willing to do the hard work and use that as an indicator, not words or even emotions.


He assumes that because I have stated it. The circumstances, to convince me she has not cheated since and will not, and for what has has changed in R, is enough for me. What other standard is needed?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Yooo @ScrambledEggs — hope you’re doing well, man.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I have followed ScrambledEggs throughout his journey and this is one of those inexplicable mysteries to me. If anyone should have pulled the plug it would be him - but he didn't and kept going back for more. She was unrepentant. She has never told the truth. She did not want counselling and was not remorseful at all. He went beyond being masochistic so any update would be meaningless - he just could not stop himself from going back for more.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

There are times when:

The nicest person loves the unkindest creature.


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## Tempocontour (Nov 5, 2018)

This was a very tough multiple post to read. Near the end when Scrambledeggs said "he was done", I thought finally, he's going to end this madness and finally divorce his wife. Now reading this, he's still married. I hope he's happy, that's what counts at the end. Good luck Scrambledeggs. You have a tough road ahead of you.


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## dreamer2017 (Nov 7, 2017)

I agree with Tempo!!! He will never leave his wife regardless of her actions. He has accepted her flaws and willing to live in that type of marriage.

Good luck my friend


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