# Married a long time, but not sure where to go from here ...



## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

Hello everyone, 
I've been lurking here for quite a while, voraciously reading threads in just about every category. I finally decided to register and post because I'm really at a crossroads.

First, here's my backstory. I'll try to keep it to the relevant details but it's probably gonna be long. Thanks in advance for reading it all.

My husband and I've been married for 27 1/2 years. We married young ... I was 22 and he turned 22 the day after our wedding. We'd been together for 3 years before that, living together for a year before we got married. 

We both have college degrees, him with a BA and me with 2 Master's degrees. I've taught high school biology for 24 years and he's been a state corrections officer for 21. He retires in 4 years, while I still have 7 to go. We have one son who's a college junior, majoring in math with a geology minor. He's doing very well academically and has Asperger's syndrome, but lives on campus (the college is in our town so he's independent but we're close by if needed). We have a small hobby farm with 11 acres of land with lots of woods and wildlife around and I have 2 horses that I no longer ride due to back surgery 5 years ago. They're like big dogs and I love them dearly. 

Sounds pretty idyllic when I write it all out. But like many people here, I don't really feel like I have a husband ... I have a roommate, a housemate who helps with expenses and chores but sadly there's no other connection there. 

We hardly talk to each other, other than the basic trivia ... "how was your day? fine ... how was yours? ok ..." that kind of interchange is the norm. We never go anywhere together, partly because of our work schedules. He works nights and has for his whole career so when I'm off he usually isn't. He only has weekends off every 6 weeks and his vacations never jive with mine. He has to sleep during the day while I'm at work. We do have dinner together every night. He showers around 9 pm and leaves for work at 10 and I go to bed shortly after that. 

Our sex life is non-existent and has been for pretty much our whole marriage. We have sex about 5 - 6 times per year. Neither one of us refuses the other but neither initiates either. That's a big problem for me and has been from the get-go. I've talked to him about it numerous times but nothing ever changes. I just don't even want to initiate any more because we've really never had the kind of sexual intimacy where we flirt and tease and look forward to sex. Even after all these years I'm just not comfortable initiating. He just doesn't seem to want it or need it. He doesn't masturbate or look at porn. There's really no emotional intimacy either ... I just feel a platonic love for him . I'm losing my desire for sex now too which bothers me a LOT. We've had it twice since August.

We don't really have any shared interests other than our Harley which we used to love to go out on. But for the past few summers we've hardly gone out on it together at all - I don't really know why. We don't socialize with others ... I have some friends at work but he doesn't really have any friends at all. God this all sounds so pathetic when I type it all out here. 

I've tried sitting him down and talking about it. It doesn't go well because he gets defensive even though I take great care to say that I've played a role in this too. Menopause is kicking my butt physically and emotionally - I'll admit that - and I kind of let it take over for awhile. But I'm out of that phase now though still in the middle of it, and these problems existed long before I hit menopause. He says he's tried to be a good husband ... and he has been in many ways ... he doesn't drink to excess, doesn't go out bar-hopping, hasn't cheated (more on that in a minute) .. and helps out a lot around the house, both inside and outside. But I can't help feeling that something really important is missing. The last time I tried talking about it I ended up apologizing and then later wondered how the hell that happened. We've NEVER been able to talk about issues and I still have no idea why. 

As far as the cheating thing I mentioned, I discovered by accident that he'd signed up at Chemistry.com a couple of months ago. He never actually answered the questionnaires or completed a profile, but just the fact that he registered really hurt. He had a facebook account and connected with some old classmates - sending messages to one particular woman that, while mostly innocent, were very charming and flirty ... he'd gotten together with about 15 of them for a mini-reunion and after coming home he told her how great she looked and that next time he was gonna just stare at her and called her Bright Penny. It bothered me a bit ... then about a month ago he just deactivated his FB account and also his email account on the same day. That made me a bit suspicious. But his browsing history has been clean as a whistle so I don't think there's really anything more to that. 

Reading the threads in the Sex forum have really made me realize what I've been missing ... I guess I just got so used to things that I became complacent. There was also a thread about things to do together that are fun that don't cost any money. I read the replies to that and just got so damn sad and depressed. We just don't do ANYTHING together and I really am starting to feel cheated. 

I've been in IC since August, trying to figure out why I've been kinda depressed, having issues with burn-out in my job, and of course my marriage. It has helped me a lot, and has given me the courage to try to finally do something with my marriage. So I've written a letter to my husband ... well, actually it's more like a 6-page treatise ...  ... telling him how emotionally disconnected I feel and how I'd like things to be different. I've been very careful NOT to place blame and to accept responsibility for my role in things and I talk about what's been bothering me. I end it with saying I'd like to work on things if he would and I suggest marriage counseling. My plan is to leave it for him on Tuesday morning when I leave for work - he'll find it when he gets up and then have the day to process it and hopefully we'll talk about it when I get home. He's off Tuesday night so we'll have the evening to discuss things. I say "hopefully" because honestly I'm not sure he'll be here when I get home ... I can't even predict what his reaction is gonna be. All I know is he didn't react real well when I talked to him before. 

To tell you the truth, I'm not really sure if we can ever have the kind of relationship that I'd like us to have. I'm not sure if we've EVER had it. It's almost to the point where I can't even imagine us being like that - laughing together, having fun together ... it just doesn't seem possible right now. We're both just so blah around each other. 

I've toyed with the idea of leaving - in fact I placed a deposit on a beautiful apartment that has a barn on the property where I can keep my horses - talk about an ideal arrangement. I fantasize about living in that place and being on my own. I feel like I live alone anyway, so why not be able to do what I want as well? But I just feel so damn guilty at the thought of it ... I think he'd be absolutely blindsided even though he really shouldn't be. I do still love him and really don't want to hurt him at all, and I think he'd be devastated if I left. My counselor said he may be unhappy too but because we don't communicate I'll never know. So writing the letter is the best thing I can do right now since we can't seem to actually discuss things. 

So .. if you're still with me after all of that ... I guess I don't even really have any questions. I'm just looking for advice and feedback and would love to hear from others that have been in a similar situation and maybe turned things around. I'm a nervous wreck thinking about leaving that letter Tuesday ... and my counselor said that in itself shows how wrong things are if I can't even let him read how I feel. She read the letter and said it's obvious from the tone that I want things to work and that I'm reaching out to him. I hope he sees it that way - but like she said ... if he reads this letter and gets angry or leaves, then maybe its for the best. 

Thanks again for wading through that mess ... lol.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

What does 'want it to work' mean?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It is strange that he does not seem to be concerned to much about your feelings yet you are holding on to this and dreaming of freedom all out of concern for his feelings. I think you are fooling yourself about his cheating, if he can sign up for a dating service and flirt with other woman he can cheat under the right circumstances. He may already have cheated on you. Have you ever asked him about the chemistry.com thing - if not why? This is a blatant betrayal of you and you gloss over it like you are in a fog. . 

Don't fool yourself, he will leave you at the drop of a hat when he manages to get the next woman lined up. If you feel it is better to be on your own and enjoy your life with new friendships and freedom, then go for it. You don't really have a marriage and if you can't talk to him about obvious searching for ways of betraying you then you are selling yourself way short. You can write your letter and wait but nothing will happen, it never has. I would write a letter telling him that you found an apartment and you are moving. 

Tell him to reactivate the chemistry.com account he will need it. I don't think he will be blindsided the way you think, he will be surprised that you called him to task and did something for yourself but he will not be hurt.. He would not have signed up for a dating service if he were emotionally invested in the relationship. He is looking for a replacement for you I think, he has not found one yet. You sound so much like you cannot face reality, but I think you know but it is too difficult to face. You husband is being dishonest and it seems like he is not telling he is planning to move on. Take care of yourself, don't worry about him he does not seem to be worried about your feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whynotme (May 18, 2010)

I agree with Catherine, I think he is already checked out of your relationship. Both of your actions speak louder than your words: he went to far as to meet up w/ old classmates and flirt, and you have looked for apartments and put a deposit down. 

Those are your first tentative steps away from each other. I know 'cause when I was thinking about leaving my ex husband, looking for an apartment is one of the first things I did.

I hope you find what's missing because I think it's torture to live with a hole in your heart. I wish you the best whatever you end up doing.


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## SaffronPower (Mar 6, 2011)

Since my experience is in a husband who was depressed for years I have to put my 2 cents in on that, otherwise I wouldn't be consistant

My husband gradually stoped talking to me over a few years. Now that I look back it's obvious that he was depressed. But I didn't know. He was never sad. And naturally a quiet person. His doctor said it's common for men to be like a robot. With no feelings. Women will often cry and you know like something is wrong. Men will often say they just feel nothing. My husband found it difficult to keep up any kind of connection with friends or family. He did however keep going to work. Until it got so bad he couldn't get out of bed. He had yearly physicals all this time he was getting worse. He told the doctor he was tired. But depression never came up.

Anyways when he couldn't barely get out of bed any more and carry on any kind of life, he finally uttered the words, "I think I'm depressed." 

I took him to the doctor the next day. He started on an anti-depressant that day and has been on it for about 5 years now. He was better in a couple weeks. It took maybe a year before his entire personality came back, his memory was normal again, he laughed and smiled again. I have my wonderful husband back. 

Anyways, before you dump him...if you could just rule out any treatable mental illness it might make a world of difference.

I think if he's able to sign up for a dating site and flirt that this might not be the problem. I dunno.

If you think he's mentally healthy then I think your apartment plan is not a bad idea. Like you said you feel like you live alone anyway. If Mr won't change to get you back after that, he never will.

You'll have a lot of ups and downs but you can get through this.


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

Hi all, thanks for the responses so far.

@Runs ... "want it to work" means I'd like my marriage to be strong, passionate and full of life. Not what we've had so far unfortunately ... 

@Catherine ... I do think there is still love between us but it's not the kind I'd hope for in a strong healthy marriage. I think he may have registered at Chemistry.com as a spur of the moment thing. I check his account occasionally and he hasn't even completed anything as far as a profile or anything. But I agree the fact that he did it all is very troubling to me and I DO mention it in my letter. I told him I know about it and that it makes me think he's not really invested in our marriage and has thoughts of leaving.

@whynotme ... the apartment is a big deal. I mailed the deposit check from school and when I got back up to my room I thought I was going to pass out cuz I couldn't believe I'd just done what I did. I almost went back down to the office and took it out of the mailbox but I let it go. 

I think I am facing reality ... finally. It's just so hard to think of the history we have and that the last 28 years was really for nothing. I just can't give up yet without knowing I tried everything I could first. 

I'll give him the letter and then I need to see immediate and consistent changes ... knowing things can't happen overnight but I need to at least see an effort. And I have some things to work on too. 

Thanks for the responses so far. Much appreciated.


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

Saffron ... I was posting my reply when you posted. My husband actually is on anti-depressants and has been for about a year now. He was ordered to go to counseling last year after having some major anger issues at work. The counselor put him on the meds then. He has gotten better as far as his moods go ... I used to feel like I was walking on eggshells before that. But as far as talking more and connecting ... nothing. And the sex is the same as it was before ... zilch. So I guess I can say he's mentally healthy at this point. 

Thanks for the perspective.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think you are taking the dating service thing far too lightly. You say it was spur of the moment, how do you know what he was thinking. Signing up for a dating site takes some thought and you don't know why he did not complete it. May be he found another service he likes better. I don't think you are facing your life realistically. You added some vital info with the anger thing and walking on tip toes. 

Your first post sounded like you lived in an idyllic setting but had a non communicative husband. In reality, you have a husband who is being treated for depression, has had anger issues that you have dealt with, seems to be working his was up to cheating on you and has essentially shut you out of his life. It is hard to face but I say it so that you at lest consider that you may be deluding yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I ask because what is your frame of reference for that? Is it real? Is it something achievable?

I would also add that not everything is depression. Sometimes, often really, it's AVOIDANCE. In my house job 1 is Be Where The S%$#^T Ain't.


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

I'm not sure if it's achievable or not to tell you the truth. As I said, I'm not sure if we've ever had it at all. So I may just be chasing my tail but I feel like I have to try if I'm gonna live with myself later. 

As far as avoidance goes, I think we've both been doing a lot of that. But I'm not sure why cuz we've never had screaming matches or anything like that ... I don't know why we cant talk to each other about any kind of issues. I sure don't have a problem letting OTHER people know when I'm pissed ... LOL!


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

I may have to rethink giving hubby the letter tomorrow (Tues.) morning. His vehicle will be in the repair shop and I don't want him to be trapped at home if he feels that he needs to leave, either as a temporary separation or simply to drive around and think. I'm probably gonna wait until his next night off to leave it for him which is next Sunday night.

Any more comments or feedback?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My thoughts... You're avoiding the issues again. There's always a reason to put things off; never a good time to drop something like this on someone.

The two of you need to talk, regardless of how uncomfortable it is. Drag out out all the things that have built up out of the closet and take a hard look at where things are at. Doing this through marriage counseling may be something to consider.

I would also say that you're taking the dating thing too lightly. You're making assumptions about his intentions because you've never actually talked about the problems. 

C


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

PBear ... I know it seems like I'm avoiding this, but really I just feel that the timing and circumstances have to be right. Do you really think that this would be a good thing to do and have him home with no way to leave if he felt he needed to? I'm asking seriously ... 
We live way out in the country and in our part of the country you don't go anywhere without a vehicle.

At the end of my letter I do tell him I want to go to MC. If he doesn't want to or refuses then that in itself will tell me alot. There's no way we can do this alone at this point and I want him to hear from a neutral third party how damaging a sexless marriage can be. 

And since several have said the same thing about the dating site issue, maybe I AM taking it too lightly. But I bring this up in the letter too and I WILL make sure to talk about it after he reads it.

Thank you to everyone who's responded so far. Believe me, my eyes are now opening more and more.


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

Just read your story and curious to see how things were going.

I agree with the posters that recommended MC to discuss issues that needed to be discussed but have not been due to the lack of communication. As far MC goes, I hope you find a good one. I have been to two and neither one helped me to resolve our issues.

Bottom line is you have been unhappy for too many years in your marriage and its time to be happy. Ideally, it should be with your husband, but if its not possible, then without. We are not getting younger (48) so time is a bit more important for us.

Take care and good luck.


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

Just a quick update as I have to leave for work soon. I'll post more tonight when I get home. 

I left him the letter yesterday morning when I went to work. I was very apprehensive when I got home ... he WAS still here and we did talk eventually. 

In a quick nutshell, he agreed that we have a problem but did say he thought alot of it was me. I agreed and told him in the letter that I accept my share of the blame and responsibility. He doesn't want to do MC yet ... says he's sick of counselors. I told him we can't do this alone and he said let's try on our own first and then if it doesn't work we'll do MC. I told him I'd accept that for now but wasn't totally happy about it. 

We talked about sex too. He informed me that he's never really liked it. He agreed to have his testosterone checked next month when he has his follow-up doc appointment. I explained to him how damaging lack of sex can be to a marriage and how the one partner essentially holds the other one hostage as far as frequency goes. There still wasn't really any resolution on that ...

So as far as I'm concerned things are on the table at least, but we both agreed that we're not sure we can pull this off. 

I'll post more tonight. Thanks all for following along.


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

Hi all, me again ...

I just wanted to post a bit more about our convo last night, adding to what I posted early this morning.

I'm not sure if anything will get better or not. We haven't mentioned anything more about the letter or convo today at all. While we were talking last night he was sitting on the sofa and I was in the recliner on the other side of the room. Neither one of us made a move toward the other for any kind of physical contact. 

Speaking of physical contact, he told me he's been running a little experiment for the last 2 weeks. He told me that he hasn't touched me at all like he used to ... no touches on the hand or anything else. He wanted to see if and when I'd initiate any kind of physical contact. Well, to tell you the truth I didn't even NOTICE that he wasn't touching me. That's how far apart we've gotten. And from that point there's still been no contact other than a very quick kiss (which is the only kind we ever do).

During our convo, he was looking at me in a strange way. I said "what?" He said, "I was trying to remember what it was that attracted us to each other in the first place." I responded "yeah, I've been doing that too." And sadly, neither one of us said anything further about it. We did discuss doing more things together and spent some time last night trying to come up with some ideas, but not really being successful. He did meet me at the grocery store after school today and we did some major shopping but that wasn't anything fun.

He vented a bit, telling me I'm miserable to be around and that when I get home the house just deflates. I have been moody for the last year or so due to menopause, which I have freely admitted to him and apologized for a LOT. But part of the reason I'm "miserable" is because I'm just not happy. I only feel embarrassed that it took me this long to figure it out.

So ... neither one of us could really say where we go from here. I asked him if he thought we could get our relationship to a point where we're both happy with it. He said he didn't know. I'm not sure I accomplished anything at all other than to at least get things out on the table.

I was really expecting to feel closer to him after our talk ... you know how you feel after you have a fight and then make up? That's what I was hoping to feel like. But I didn't. I feel no differently about him now than I did before our talk. I'm just kinda numb and don't feel much of anything. I hope that the feeling will come back after some time and effort.

Thanks for reading this update. What do you all think? Are we a lost cause?


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

tranquility said:


> ... "when I get home the house just deflates"


I feel the same way when my wife gets home. I can be pretty normal, maybe even in a good mood, but once she gets home I just completely deflate. I want so much for things to be good between us so you would think I would be happy to see her, but just the opposite happens.




tranquility said:


> ... you know how you feel after you have a fight and then make up?


Years ago making up was the best part of having a fight. Now, the fight happens but there is no making up anymore. I think this happens when a relationship is so far gone that the desire to make up went with it. The feeling is gone. 

My house is also very quiet and I have no hope for improvement anymore. Its a waiting game for me to see who will make the first move to make a change; whatever that change may be. Its very difficult waiting for something to happen knowing its likely not going to be good.

Getting everything out in the open is a very big step. Now you have a better handle on what exactly is going on. The next step is to do something about it. Doing nothing will just make things worse. You may consider MC if he is willing to go.

Do not give up. Take action to save your marriage even if he is not willing to do the leg work. Your marriage is worth saving and I dont believe its too far gone.


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## tranquility (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks Troy. In the letter I gave him I suggested MC. When we had our talk about the letter later that evening I asked him what he thought about it and he said he didn't want to do it. I've been in IC since August on my own, and he saw my counselor 3 times because she told me she'd like to see him to try to help me more. I also mentioned in the letter that I'd been doing lots of research on the net about marriage and relationships and offered him those links if he was interested. He wasn't. 

Last night after we'd had our dinner and were relaxing I asked him if he'd had any more thoughts about our conversation and he just replied "no". I was kind of taken aback actually. He said he wanted things to work but I'm at a loss as to how that's supposed to happen when he won't do MC and won't engage in discussion about things. I think that he honestly feels that if we just spend more time together that things will just automatically get better between us as well. But in reality we spend our whole evenings "together" ... physically at least, being in the same room. But there's no other connection.

So that's where we are right now. We just finished dinner and are both sitting in the living room on our separate laptops - there's been no more mention of anything regarding our relationship and I'll be damned if I'm gonna bring it up again. I didn't expect change overnight certainly but after pouring out my heart and soul and working myself into a frenzy over giving him that stupid letter, nothing is going to change. Just like all the other times I tried to talk to him about things. 

I'm done. I'm not leaving, but I'm gonna just live my own life.


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

tranquility said:


> ..we spend our whole evenings "together" ... physically at least, being in the same room. But there's no other connection.


I read a really good book recently called the "5 love languages". It explains how two people can have different ways of feeling loved (touching, talking, gifts, helping out, etc). You must know how your spouse wants to be loved and this is the way you should express your love to him. And this goes both ways by the way. He will be a lot more receptive to your efforts than if you showed your love in ways that did not make him feel loved.

In other words, expressing your love the right way is critical in connecting with your spouse. Since you feel there is a lack of connection, this may be one way to try to connect with him. And.. since he is not willing to do MC, if you really want to save this marriage you will have to continue to do the majority of the leg work. There are other books out there about connecting, but I found this one to be concise and to the point. 



tranquility said:


> ..I'm done. I'm not leaving, but I'm gonna just live my own life.


Its funny but just a little while ago the very same thought crossed my mind. My wife came home and seemed to be happy. I thought to myself, "If she is happy without me, why should I keep trying to force myself back into her life. I should just leave her alone so she can be happy, and move on with my life and make myself happy". The trouble is I am not happy right now so it will take me a while to get there. I will be happy one day though, that much I know.

The problem with not doing anything is, short of a miracle, things will likely get worse. I am also to the point where I am ready to give up. But, I have tried for over a year and I am really tired now. I dont expect anything to get better once I stop trying. So be careful about your decision, because things may change at some point. It may be you, him, or both, but things will eventually change once you give up.


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## CeeCee (Mar 11, 2011)

tranquility said:


> Hi all, me again ...
> 
> I just wanted to post a bit more about our convo last night, adding to what I posted early this morning.
> 
> ...


I've been reading your posts and see so much of my almost 30 year old marriage in things you are saying... You could almost be talking about my life. I love the way you write too and the way you can put things into words so easily. My H has actually left at least 3 times in the past several years for different periods of times because he was so called "frustrated". After all this he tells me he still loves me but doesn't want to continue our life together with all the negativity and meanness we tend to show each other almost every day. Very little communication. Maybe we could compare notes sometime off site? Good luck


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

CeeCee said:


> I love the way you write too and the way you can put things into words so easily.


:iagree:

Tranquility: Your clarity and easy to read style makes it easier to follow your story and provide feedback.:smthumbup:


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