# My separation - one move left I guess



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

For those that don't know my story, I have been separated for a month or so from my wife, who has been emotionally unavailable for many years.

Ultimately I followed through with the separation because I had tried everything else, and many folks along with me hoped that a life changing event would force her to look inside and discover herself. When I left, she said that she wanted to work on herself too, that she didn't need me to leave to do these things, etc.

One month later and you would think it was her that left. She has made no effort to go to marriage counseling, no effort to plan any time together, nothing that could possibly be construed as working on the marriage. At one point, I asked her what she saw as the end game to all this, and she said she didn't know, but I wouldn't be coming home any time soon.

She has taken her ring off, gone to more girl's nights events at bars than I could imagine, and the kids are now sleeping in the bed with her again. (My oldest is 10.) I spotted a dozen roses in the house during one visit, although she claims one of her girlfriends was responsible. All this, in the name of "healing".

I guess I don't really know what the point of this separation is any more. She has told me I'm free to find someone else, she doesn't expect me to wait for her, and she understands of anything I do while she's on this journey of hers. Basically, all the separation has done is given her more of what she wants (her independence) and less of what I want, which is a partnership.

I told her I wasn't going to put my life on hold and what I wanted in a relationship. She told me she doesn't know what she wants, and I believe her... she actually said she was envious that I knew what I wanted. Worse, she emails and calls every day about generic stuff. I am in the friend zone. Opens the wounds every time she calls. 

I guess it's time to just move on. I'm going to take some classes at the local college and try to get a master's degree. I'm going to do some events in my new town, maybe volunteer. There is a cutie I met that knows I am separated and asked me to dinner anyway... I may go. I am not going to sit around and wait for her any more.

Is this the point where I should just file?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Normally I would say... no give it another month or so before filing. 

But.

Given your history? Nope. She doesn't know what she wants, but she sure is making it clear that 1 thing she doesn't want is the relationship with you... not as a marriage. And she doesn't care enough to realize that just talking to her is like stabbing you in the chest. That you love her very deeply still and are hoping beyond hope she'll turn this all around.

Move on Acorn. This isn't healthy for you to continue like this. Stop taking all of her calls. Limit conversations to what's happening with your children and that's it. No chit chat. You and she can't be friends. Not now, and maybe not ever. That depends on how you heal from this.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Acorn,

My humble opinion is to file right after your next long term companion to be accepts your marriage proposal.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sometimes things become a lot clearer to us the further we’re away from them. In some sense you’re away from the emotional entanglement that you would have been in had you still been together. And because our emotional entanglement is much less than it was, we can start using our rational mind to see things clearer now that we’re not in the depth of our emotions.

Plus when together it’s like “instance responses” and so the dynamics become quite dysfunctional. When we’re in separation not only aren’t our emotions somewhat subdued but we get more time to think things through before we respond.


I think what happens in separation is that we begin to take our blinkers off and perhaps see our partner in real terms, for the person they really are, not the person we wanted them to be!

MEM mentioned something a little while back. That we at some time make a switch that says their behaviour is no longer down to us, it’s down to them. In that their behaviour has nothing to do with us, what we did or what we didn’t do, their behaviour is entirely up them in its entirety.

And so our blinkers slowly but surely start coming off and as they do we kind of like lower them down from the pedestal we had them on and get to see them as they really are, perhaps for the first time ever.


I’ve most recently discovered that my wife’s dream of the last ten years or so is to emigrate to Australia to live close to her cousin. The only reason she isn’t there as yet is because her mother is still alive. When her mother passes away my wife will get the inheritance she needs to make her emigration and her dream come true.

Meanwhile I’ve been like a stop gap, an in between for her. It is a massive betrayal of ten years which explains why I feel, or felt like I did when with her. She simply did not want to be with me in spite of her declarations of love for me, sharing my bed and everything else. But now I see her as she truly is and in some strange way I’m ok with that. I know what’s real now, what her reality is and I’m really pleased I’m no longer deluded. I don’t even feel vindictive or revengeful, well I do a bit, but I am a thousand times more pleased that I’ve made the break than I ever am revengeful!


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Acorn,
> 
> My humble opinion is to file right after your next long term companion to be accepts your marriage proposal.


Huh?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

She has told me I'm free to find someone else.

That says it all. She has no interest in working on your marriage, and she is using you for emotional and financial support without giving anything in return. She is looking to friends and her children for affection that she should be getting from you. It is so sad that she feels like this, but I would not waste any more time waiting for her to act like a wife.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

IDK, not saying there is a clear right or wrong time to file. Just seems odd to me in a way to seriously pursue another woman while technically married.

I think once you decide that you've found a woman worth pursuing it's time to file. She's not working on the marriage like you said, and once your heart starts being drawn to another (and she to you) just seems like it's really time to move on.

Similarly if she starts to fall for another guy, I'd say it's time to file.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Really breaks my heart when I hear stories like yours. Sad that she is willing to just let things go.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Watch out for that “You’re free to find someone else”.

I got told that. I thought wow you’re really trying to hurt me or you truly don’t love me. Turned out she wanted me to go with someone else so she could use it in the divorce!

It’s tough to take that your wife really doesn’t want you let alone love you. You’ve a very good head on you, you’re creative and ambitious, you have goals and plans.


You will be very much more than ok.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

File.

It's time to move on

Also, I'm tinking that since she told you to move on, she has too and someone else besides a girlfriend sent her the roses (were they red roses?)


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Yes, they were red roses.

I walked in, they were on the table, and before I could even process what I was looking at, she said, "Oh those are just from (her friend)."


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Acorn said:


> Yes, they were red roses.
> 
> I walked in, they were on the table, and before I could even process what I was looking at, she said, "Oh those are just from (her friend)."


there it is shes dragging her heels about telling you she found someone else.


living well is the best revenge.get your ducks in a row and file.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> Yes, they were red roses.
> 
> I walked in, they were on the table, and before I could even process what I was looking at, she said, "Oh those are just from (her friend)."


UGH.

I'm a suspicious person of the intent of others (not paranoid, there's a difference ). She wants to make it clear to you that your not being there doesn't bother her. She could have easily had them in another room (bedroom out of common space) if she knew you were going to be there.

It's like spitting in your face, I don't care who they came from.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Acorn said:


> Huh?


No need to bother with the paperwork until you're ready to marry someone else. This give you the most flexibility


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> UGH.
> 
> I'm a suspicious person of the intent of others (not paranoid, there's a difference ). She wants to make it clear to you that your not being there doesn't bother her. She could have easily had them in another room (bedroom out of common space) if she knew you were going to be there.
> 
> It's like spitting in your face, I don't care who they came from.


Yes I have felt this way. The other day, after we were together for one of the kid's events, she asked if I wanted to go get pizza as a family. I said sure, I'm trying to follow the idea of letting her set the pace. She smiled, then went over and asked a friend of hers to go. Nothing wrong with it per se, but it just feels like a lot of the things she is doing now is in an effort to point out what I can't have - in this case, the family bonding time that I badly crave.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I am a florist by trade. No woman friend has ever bought or ordered a dozen red roses (or any other color) from me, for a friend. Not once.

You deserve much better than what your wife is giving you. I agree with most; move on.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> Yes I have felt this way. The other day, after we were together for one of the kid's events, she asked if I wanted to go get pizza as a family. I said sure, I'm trying to follow the idea of letting her set the pace. She smiled, then went over and asked a friend of hers to go. Nothing wrong with it per se, but it just feels like a lot of the things she is doing now is in an effort to point out what I can't have - in this case, the family bonding time that I badly crave.


And this is the very reason why you need to not put yourself in these positions anymore. It's not just about not giving her the satisfaction of hurting you (and she KNOWS she's doing just that) but it's about self preservation Acorn. You have to protect your heart.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Acorn, this update really hit me hard. I was really expecting her to turn this into a real attempt to overcome her distancing tendency. And the red roses ....

When you really think about how she is, do you think that a part of her stance is just based on pride? In the end, it doesn't matter, because her actions are telling exactly what is important to her. She's moving on.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> No need to bother with the paperwork until you're ready to marry someone else. This give you the most flexibility


Your wit continues to astound me, good sir.

PS If it is not clear from the post, I'm the one that wants back with my wife, and she's the one moving on.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Acorn said:


> Yes, they were red roses.
> 
> I walked in, they were on the table, and before I could even process what I was looking at, she said, "Oh those are just from (her friend)."


Could be passive aggression. She may well have bought them herself, left them on the table such that you’re hurt.

You leaving her will have hurt her, no matter what she says. So she’ll be in pain and she’ll be angry because of her pain.

You just need to watch out for the passive aggressive acts of revenge.

She set you right up with the family pizza. That’s passive aggression.


Once you get to know PA, you’ll see right through it and be able to dodge the bullets.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Halien said:


> Acorn, this update really hit me hard. I was really expecting her to turn this into a real attempt to overcome her distancing tendency. And the red roses ....
> 
> When you really think about how she is, do you think that a part of her stance is just based on pride? In the end, it doesn't matter, because her actions are telling exactly what is important to her. She's moving on.


I really think she still loves me Halien. I know that flies in the face of all the macho stuff I'm saying to try to boost myself up. But no matter how silly that makes me sound, I believe it.

I don't think she's the most emotional mature person in the world - if she was, she wouldn't have been with me the last 10 years.

I think she's lashing out. I think she wants me to feel the pain she's feeling. Like Bob is saying. I mean, let's face it, I have changed and she is starting to feel things as a result, and the first thing she feels is the pain of our marriage ending. Ouch.

I am willing to give her a lot of latitude. I do not mind her lashing out a few times. I would take another year of this if I thought it would help. Lord knows I've made mistakes too. If I can show love to my wife by being the punching bag for a while, so be it.

I also think she is scared. She takes things very personally and by working on things like asking for together time and more attention to the home and marriage, she has interpreted this as a judgment on her. I think she is scared to be with me as much as I am scared when I am with her. I am just coping with this aspect of it a little better than her.

I don't know why I'm typing all this verbal vomit. Sorry. Just venting. Bad day.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Acorn if she truly felt as deeply as you describe her, she has a horrible way of showing it.

Love is a verb. It's not just in what you say, it's in your actions toward the one you love. ACTIONS.

I think she's showing you who she truly is and not what you wish she was. You've been her punching bag long enough. Why did you move out? You could have stayed put if that's the attitude you're going to take with this.

As much as it hurts, your wife doesn't want you. Not really. Not in the way you want her. If the only reason you moved out was to prove some point to her, then that's too bad. It was a wasted effort on your part to shake her to the core. She has filled up the spaces in her life where you should be #1 with other people and things.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think the flowers are a real good sign that she is being courted. It will be really hard to compete with this. Sorry, until the OM is out of the picture you are in a losing battle.

Her new boy friend and all the new relationship stuff that comes with these feelings will not help her focus on any kind of R.

You will be best served if you distance your self and stop engaging her. Like you said every time you engage her the pain rises again. So please protect your feelings and start being indifferent to her so you can heal your self.

I think you would be better off if she was pissed off at you rather then this painful friend crap you are dealing with.

File ASAP!


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## nomoretogive (Oct 29, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Acorn if she truly felt as deeply as you describe her, she has a horrible way of showing it.
> 
> Love is a verb. It's not just in what you say, it's in your actions toward the one you love. ACTIONS.
> 
> ...


Acorn:

I have read your posts and your wife acts much like my husband. As hard as it is to swallow this, read it....then read it again. It reminds of what my IC told me, "The hardest part is going to be YOU accepting that he just doesn't love you, that he's not capable of loving you the right way. You will NEVER be able to have a rewarding marriage with him. That's hard to admit, to come to terms with." Exchange the he for she, and that is your wife. Our egos and hopes sometimes blind us to reality. 

I think your wife is making her position clear. She has pulled away rather than coming to you. She is going out and having fun with her friends, someone is sending her roses -- I'm with everyone else, most likely NOT a girlfriend as she contends -- and she is caught up in a fog of sorts. For her, life is awesome right now. If there is another man sending those roses -- and I would bet there is -- like another poster said, you are not going to be able to compete with this. He is new, without the history you guys share, making her feel alive and wanted again. 

While I don't think she sent the roses to herself, I do think you should do some reading on passive aggressive behavior, because that's a common tactic used by those who are emotionally stunted, and it becomes a sick game to them. At least arm yourself with information so you can recognize when it's happening, because that's the thing with PA behavior: It's so freaking subtle when it's happening that you don't realize you've been had until long afterwards. I remember one time when we were separated, my h called late in the evening and said he needed something from the garage for work the next day. I left the garage door unlocked and told him just to go in and grab it, but don't bother me. The next day I went to leave, and one of my doors had been left open "just so" so that my battery was dead...and he had the charger with him. Once they start engaging in this behavior, it will drive you crazy. She is walking a fine line already with the dinner situation. 

The sad part is, you made a decision (moving) in hopes that it would shake her up and get her to see the light and be ready to give 200 percent to working on the marriage. Sometimes that happens. When you make decisions like that, though, you have to be equally prepared that the opposite will happen, as it has in your case. Right now, you are the only one still invested in your marriage; your wife has checked out and appears to be moving on. She's giving you just enough attention and access to keep you interested and hopeful....while she's out living her life. Don't be her backup plan when the fog clears and she realizes that her new life isn't as wonderful as it seems right now. Eventually, the GNOs will come to an end, the rose-sending guy will see her spots and move on. That's when she will want to come back to you. Don't leave that door open for her. 

Start those things you mentioned in an earlier post and start living your life for YOU. As long as she knows you will be there to field her calls as a friend, and be a puppet on a string like the dinner incident, she will continue to engage in this crazy behavior. File for divorce, go out to dinner with the cute girl, live. From your posts, my impression of you is that you are an amazing man, with a lot of depth and substance, and you deserve way more than your wife has to offer you. Right now, you are still in love with the idea of what she could be, what your marriage could be IF ONLY SHE would work on it. You can't stay stuck in this crazy cycle based on potential....when she's made it clear she isn't willing to play her part in the script.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Acorn said:


> Your wit continues to astound me, good sir.
> 
> PS If it is not clear from the post, I'm the one that wants back with my wife, and she's the one moving on.


I could tell, which I think is wonderful.

Unfortunately it's not clear that she will ever want to work on the marriage. Just seems to me if her heart was breaking over your separation she would be eager to work on things, not freeing you to see others.

That's why I suggested maybe just taking that gal out on a date, only just keep firm limits. No kissing (other than a peck on the cheek maybe), and no sex.

If you two have mutual feelings for each at all, file for divorce before you do anything in appropriate for a married man. If you find out she's falling for another man, then file.

Otherwise you are leaving the door open while you really have no options, and she's not committed to another man.


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## nomoretogive (Oct 29, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> I am a florist by trade. No woman friend has ever bought or ordered a dozen red roses (or any other color) from me, for a friend. Not once.
> 
> You deserve much better than what your wife is giving you. I agree with most; move on.


Not trying to thread jack, but is it weird that I HAVE sent roses to a female before? LOL. They were yellow "lemons to lemonade" roses that I sent to my best friend, and were well received because of the situation.

That's the only time I've ever done it, though, I promise!! 

Please just tell me I'm not weird  Sorry Acorn, I had to ask


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

nomoretogive said:


> Not trying to thread jack, but is it weird that I HAVE sent roses to a female before? LOL. They were yellow "lemons to lemonade" roses that I sent to my best friend, and were well received because of the situation.
> 
> That's the only time I've ever done it, though, I promise!!
> 
> Please just tell me I'm not weird  Sorry Acorn, I had to ask


The point was about RED roses which are intentionally used for romatic occasions. Yellow roses are appropriate for anyone.


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## DanglingDaisy (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm really sorry for the pain you're going through 

When I started reading this thread, it really seemed from what you described your wife has been purposely dismissing you and flaunting to hurt you. I don't know your history together,but either she REALLY resents you and wants you to hurt(you know the woman's scorn thing),or she's always been an insensitive rude person-and it's showing more now?

Anyone who gets to the point of not caring,and being insensitive to the other person,it's time to move on(file for divorce). As many have said,she's opted out. She brought her friend to the "family" event to wedge herself further from you-a friend intervention of sorts. Another sign she doesn't want to be with you.

Don't continue to drag along with hopeful expectations. Cut her off from sending you emails and form some boundaries as to what contact is acceptable(just about the kids).

Don't beat yourself up. If your partner doesn't want to work on mending things, take as much time to mourn and move on as soon as you can FOR YOUR SANITY'S SAKE


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

if you really want the most likely thing that happened based on the posts in this thread-


she either had an emotional affair or physical affair and started to rewrite the marital history, gave a version of the ILYBINILWY speech and then looked to get you out of the house so she could explore that relationship freely without your interference and keep you as a back up plan (which is why she is stringing you along without divorcing). The fact she says for you to see others is to relieve her own guilt.

this has happened just like this over and over again in cases of infidelity

one question for you-

Have you investigated your wife and the likelihood of an affair?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

She's dating and banging other men as a single woman. All these Girls Night Out (GNOs) and roses on the table prove it. What you are to her is this: The backup plan. She knows that you will take her back sooner or later and that you will wait for her, no matter what you say. This is *VERY COMMON* wayward spouse behavior. She's what we call a cake eater, coming from the saying "having your cake and eating it too". It's also very common for the cheater to want a seperation so they can have the freedom to cheat. 










Typically, the cake eater will suddenly be remorseful or claim to have second thoughts when the betrayed spouse (you) actually files for D. But only just enough for the BS to cancel the divorce or stall it.

If she doesn't try to cake eat, then you will have lost nothing because she checked out of the marriage long ago. Get your dignity back and file for D, she's being a skank couger right now and you know it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Browncoat said:


> I could tell, which I think is wonderful.
> 
> Unfortunately it's not clear that she will ever want to work on the marriage. Just seems to me if her heart was breaking over your separation she would be eager to work on things, not freeing you to see others.
> 
> ...


I actually have to disagree with this. Don't have your wife be your back up plan. Either you want to be married to her or you don't. Don't let how you feel about someone else influence that decision.

Acorn - You also need to recognize the possibility that even if she really loves you (a fact I am not so sure about), your marriage and relationship may still not be healthy for you. Her actions and words hurt you. It is not clear to me that you continue to work on this marriage, while she is unable or unwilling, is healthy for you. Remember that if you do file, you can always withdraw if she acts as you need.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I think you need definitive closure before ending this, Acorn. You still love her deeply, but the situation has always been her inability to put you first. The roses could be an avenue to push her for a clearer stance on what she really wants, I think. Maybe you could tell her that you only have one way to see her nights out, followed by the roses, since you are a grown up and not gullible enough to believe the story she gave. She's telling you its over, and she is moving on to replace you. Put the ball firmly in her court. You aren't looking for her to prove that she is not exploring other relationships, and you don't even need to feel like you have to prove that she is. This is just letting one situation determine your next course of action. You are giving her something she can grab hold to in proving that she is committed to you - something that is much less vague than a long, complex plan that she would have to come up with to re-engage in a better marriage. If she really wants to make this work, she could easily admit that the flowers are a passive aggressive stunt to try to scare you, knowing that you have made this "the issue" that forces her to take a stand one way or another.

My point is that if you are the one who seperated, and you have to find something that decides this for you. What you need from her to settle this is just too overwhelming for her, apparently. But if she is really moving on, exploring new relationships, that tells you where she is.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> The other day, after we were together for one of the kid's events, *she asked if I wanted to go get pizza as a family*. I said sure, I'm trying to follow the idea of letting her set the pace. *She smiled, then went over and asked a friend of hers to go*


Sorry but this reeks of a game being played. A sick one.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

DanglingDaisy said:


> I don't know your history together,but either she REALLY resents you and wants you to hurt(you know the woman's scorn thing),or she's always been an insensitive rude person-and it's showing more now?


I think it could be both, tbh. 

As honest as I can be, we met and lived most of our marriage as very weak, broken individuals. (I am two years recovered in IC and yet anyone reading can probably easily see I still have a lot of work to do!)

I think she is a very angry person underneath, but has the most kind exterior ever. It leads to some very confusing situations.

I remember our son made the championship game for his first time and was excited to play. My wife, however, said she could not go. Some in-law that neither of us had ever heard of was having a family party, and she felt like she needed to go to that instead. I asked, and she didn't want to go, but felt like she had to because of the family connection. I sat her down and said, "Your son is having a first in his life. You don't even know the guy throwing the party. Which one do you wish you went to when you are on your death bed?" She ended up choosing to go to the game, and thanked me, but she was pissed off at me for weeks for doing that. ???? 

She also has undiagnosed ADHD, which I mention only because I'm told a lot of her behaviors that many would think rude are actually quite normal because of the ADHD. I do believe this. I have always just accepted it because I love her. It is hard not to take some of her actions personally though.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Well as an update, I called an attorney and have my consultation next week. I think I'm going to get the ball rolling for a legal separation, which is prelude to divorce in my state.

I called my wife and asked what it would take to move back in. She said it was a no right now, she had things she needed to do and was working on to be a better partner. I said fine, and told her as best I could that I had to detach from her, that this was just too painful for me, and I had to move on in the same way that she was.

She said she was surprised, since she thought we were getting better. ???? I told her if things changed, I would be happy to consider getting back together some day. She asked me to draw up what I think marriage looks like in version 2. Which is odd, because just the other day we covered the fact that I'm the only one who knows what I want. This is the kind of request that makes me want to pull hair out of my head, because I know deep down inside, she's looking for me to figure out what she wants.

I guess the TAM shark move would have been to just detach without the phone call, but nobody is perfect.

Thanks for all the posts, you guys are incredibly supportive and I appreciate it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *I called my wife and asked what it would take to move back in. She said it was a no right now, she had things she needed to do *and was working on to be a better partner. I said fine, and told her as best I could that I had to detach from her, that this was just too painful for me, and I had to move on in the same way that she was.


Another stab wound to the chest. You're going to hemorrage to death Acorn if you keep this up.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> Another stab wound to the chest. You're going to hemorrage to death Acorn if you keep this up.


LOL probably true. I just felt like I had to give her one more chance.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Acorn - You also need to recognize the possibility that even if she really loves you (a fact I am not so sure about), your marriage and relationship may still not be healthy for you. Her actions and words hurt you. It is not clear to me that you continue to work on this marriage, while she is unable or unwilling, is healthy for you. Remember that if you do file, you can always withdraw if she acts as you need.


Thanks TAG - you are not the first to say this is not healthy for me, I just am overly loyal/codependent and it is hard to get past that. But, I took some steps today to end it... baby steps, right?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> LOL probably true. I just felt like I had to give her one more chance.


Why do you feel like you owe that to her? All you are doing at this point is giving her one more chance to hurt you. Get one last dig in for her own satisfaction.

Would it help you to think that after that conversation she most likely is on the phone gossiping to a friend about your phone call? Making fun of you? Smiling inside knowing she's in your head so bad you can't make reasonable decisions without talking to her first?


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I called my wife and asked what it would take to move back in. She said it was a no right now, she had things she needed to do and was working on to be a better partner. I said fine, and told her as best I could that I had to detach from her, that this was just too painful for me, and I had to move on in the same way that she was.
> .


Hope you understand that to an outsider, this sounds like you are being played. Her actions suggest that she is working on being a better partner, but not necessarily for you.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Personally I think she doesn't believe deep down you'll do anything but what you have been. Catering to her. The move out and your behavior AFTER the fact is showing her something about you. That you're weak. You talk a big game but that's all you are is talk. You moved out to make her feel bad and it's not working. She most likely knows it was a farce to get her to change, and guess what? She's not going to. She showed you that with the pizza outing, and she showed you again with what she just told you over the phone. She'll keep showing you if you keep engaging her.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Go dark. Spend time with your kids... the only conversations you should have with her should be about arranging your time with them.

Family outings don't need to include her. Things have changed. It's confusing enough (I'm sure) with you having moved out for your kids. Don't continue to add to their confusion by pretending to be happy family while living in two seperate households. Forget trying to be 'friends' with your wife. She's not your friend. A friend wouldn't treat you like this.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> Personally I think she doesn't believe deep down you'll do anything but what you have been. Catering to her. The move out and your behavior AFTER the fact is showing her something about you. That you're weak. You talk a big game but that's all you are is talk. You moved out to make her feel bad and it's not working. She most likely knows it was a farce to get her to change, and guess what? She's not going to. She showed you that with the pizza outing, and she showed you again with what she just told you over the phone. She'll keep showing you if you keep engaging her.


I have probably been very foolish and very much played. I wouldn't be surprised if she is rolling her eyes at me calling. I think the enormity of everything has been slowly hitting me the last week or so and I guess I am more naive than I thought. I don't want to admit this to myself I guess.


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## DanglingDaisy (Mar 26, 2012)

Sorry Acorn I don't buy your wife's insistance she's doing this to bring you guys closer.She's doing what she's doing to move on and give herself what *she* wants or needs right now. It's obvious from your conversation with her she's not incorporating you into the picture,rather she's purposely shutting you out.

I get where you're coming from with the codependancy thing. It still lingers with me-our relationship was very codependant from the beginning. Many told me from the get go here that my partner has treating me horribly-I *knew* it in my gut,but my heart has insisted I keep trying to work things out and not give up.

I,like you,love my partner. I've always had a hard time fathoming he doesn't feel the same way. Since coming to TAM,it's been painfully clear he doesn't value me. I hope you see your wife is that way too.

I'm currently in that depressed demoralized stage right now. I can't afford to raise three kids on my own,and just thinking about filing for seperation emotionally cripples me...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I have probably been very foolish and very much played. I wouldn't be surprised if she is rolling her eyes at me calling. I think the enormity of everything has been slowly hitting me the last week or so and I guess I am more naive than I thought. I don't want to admit this to myself I guess.


I'll be the first to admit this (since I am one), but women are pure concentrated evil sometimes. 

It's not too late to turn everything around Acorn. The first step is to stop being her play thing. Take your ball and go home.


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Acorn,
Time to man up buddy. You are being way to beta and way to passive. You don't call your wife and ask permission to move back in to your own home. Unless it is a situation where you are not on the title/lease, you can move back in anytime you want until ordered not to by a court. That will require a D filing and a pendente lite hearing on her part. Since she is not going to file, why not move back in on your own (alpha behavior) and bust up her potential affair? Stop being a nice guy and take control!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Acorn said:


> Thanks TAG - you are not the first to say this is not healthy for me, I just am overly loyal/codependent and it is hard to get past that. But, I took some steps today to end it... baby steps, right?


These things are massively difficult for codependents. It’s like you're haemorrhaging and somewhat in a trauma.

This is when we come to understand the true meaning of s.e.p.e.r.a.t.i.o.n.

It’s no longer just a word, a concept, it becomes a very painful reality. It seems like they are inside us and we literally have to get them out. You don’t know it as yet but it is the beginning of the end of your codependency.

It’s at times like struggling down a long dark tunnel looking for the light. Once you do find and get out into that light you’ll never want to go back into the dark again.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Acorn said:


> I have probably been very foolish and very much played. I wouldn't be surprised if she is rolling her eyes at me calling. I think the enormity of everything has been slowly hitting me the last week or so and I guess I am more naive than I thought. I don't want to admit this to myself I guess.


You'll laugh about it one day. Believe me you will.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

AFEH said:


> These things are massively difficult for codependents. It’s like you're haemorrhaging and somewhat in a trauma.
> 
> This is when we come to understand the true meaning of s.e.p.e.r.a.t.i.o.n.
> 
> ...


I want to reply to this with "You have no idea how true this is!", but obviously you do.  Thanks.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Acorn said:


> I want to reply to this with "You have no idea how true this is!", but obviously you do.  Thanks.


Many of us do


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Acorn, I'm sorry you're going through this with your wife. Whether or not she loves you isn't the point, but her ability to treat you with value, respect, and commitment in a partnership is the question you should look at. 

If you're in a partnership and you have to set down the weight for a moment, will your partner pick up the slack or just wait for you to pick it all back up again? She seems to want you to do all the work in your relationship and that means you're meeting her needs and your own, but giving her credit for meeting yours anyway. 

It's easy to say you love someone, easy to feel it, but marriage isn't the same as dating or being in a long-term relationship. Marriage is a commitment to sustain and preserve that relationship, too. She may well care about you, but she cares about herself more. She may well care about the marriage, but not enough to actively work on it. The message she is sending isn't that she doesn't want to be with you, but that she only wants to be with you if it is convenient for her, meaning, if you do all the work and she just shows up when she wants to show up. What she wants out of marriage and what you want out of marriage may not be the same thing. You want an equal partnership, but she clearly doesn't want to carry her weight. 

In learning how to detach, you have to evaluate the dynamics of your relationship without the question of love. Love will make you forgive everything and do anything you want, including neglecting self-preservation, but if you're used up and spent and the person you're counting on isn't going to be there for you when you're down....what has that love gotten you except joy for itself? You'll still have to pick up the pieces of yourself when she's walked away to find her own self-gratification at your expense. 

It is really hard to accept that the person who you love and who loves you back isn't willing to treat you the way you want to be treated, especially when you're wiling to make sacrifices for her, but...she isn't willing to compromise for you. Maybe she doesn't even see it. However, until you actually disconnect, she doesn't even have a reason to question her behavior because she hasn't lost anything. You're still there. And, in the meantime, it's wearing you down more and more. 

I'm in the same boat as you, so I understand how you're feeling. You have to see the difference between love and commitment here in order to determine how to handle things. Your separation is still new. It will take time for you to work through this because giving up a dream is painful as all hell.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Acorn said:


> Well as an update, I called an attorney and have my consultation next week. I think I'm going to get the ball rolling for a legal separation, which is prelude to divorce in my state.
> 
> I called my wife and asked what it would take to move back in. She said it was a no right now, she had things she needed to do and was working on to be a better partner. I said fine, and told her as best I could that I had to detach from her, that this was just too painful for me, and I had to move on in the same way that she was.
> 
> ...


Acorn, I am very sorry to hear you are going through this. On my second month of seperation, I basically gave her two choices. One we live together and work on it, or Two we move to divorce. I put the ball in her court and she opted for One. We are working on it still, but in the right direction.

Could she be in a mid-life crisis? If so, could it be a fog that may lift at some point? I believe that is what happened to mine and is still working her way out of it. From all that I have read it can take years for them to wake from the confused state of mind.

I wish you well.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Halien said:


> Hope you understand that to an outsider, this sounds like you are being played. Her actions suggest that she is working on being a better partner, but not necessarily for you.


We've replied to each other's threads enough that I hope you know that I wasn't trying to be insulting with the above comment, Acorn. For a long time, you've tried to tell her that you don't want just an average marriage. You want more, and you are willing to do your share. It's very telling that you think that she is partially driven by anger here. On the one hand, my wife could admit that she really needed to address her depression more aggressively, and that the effect of being very critical wouldn't just go away with a simple apology, but our 'discussions' really angered her. I had to learn to short circuit these PA types of games, and tell her that she needs to put the pride and hurt aside (and so did I) and make a real decision about the marriage. Life just doesn't present us with endless opportunities to delay and put off the decisions we need to make. My point in the above comment was that we can't see what you see when you look in her eyes. We don't see the love beneath the games. In the end, only you can decide what to do, but to an observer, there is alot going on, but nothing that really puts the two of you back together as a mutually happy couple.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Halien said:


> *short circuit these PA types of games, and tell her that she needs to put the pride and hurt aside (and so did I) and make a real decision about the marriage*. Life just doesn't present us with endless opportunities to delay and put off the decisions we need to make. My point in the above comment was that *we can't see what you see when you look in her eyes. We don't see the love beneath the games*. In the end, only you can decide what to do, but to an observer, there is alot going on, but nothing that really puts the two of you back together as a mutually happy couple.


Very good points!

It's important to address the issue, not worry about whether or not there is enough love there. Love and the ability to manage conflict are not inherently related. It is possible to love someone and still not know how to deal with conflict regarding that person. We often think that love will teach us how to get through everything, but it doesn't automatically repair dysfunctional behavior, even if it can allow us to forgive the pain caused by such behavior.

Your wife seems to have indicated that she thought things were getting better. That seems wild given how you're feeling about her game-playing. It indicates a deep rift in communication. Setting aside pride and hurt will be useful in addressing any problems you both have, OP, and if she can't set aside her Passive Aggessive tendencies, and you can't set aside your hope that she behave in an ideal manner, you guys might not be able to address whatever issue is causing the rift at all. 

You can't get to the love beneath the games if you don't short-circuit the games. Is it even possible to do so between the two of you?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Married in VA said:


> Acorn,
> Time to man up buddy. You are being way to beta and way to passive. You don't call your wife and ask permission to move back in to your own home. Unless it is a situation where you are not on the title/lease, you can move back in anytime you want until ordered not to by a court. That will require a D filing and a pendente lite hearing on her part. Since she is not going to file, why not move back in on your own (alpha behavior) and bust up her potential affair? Stop being a nice guy and take control!


This is a very potent tool in your box: moving back in. Acorn, are you on the paperwork for your home? If so, move in ASAP.

Just tell her you're making the decisions now based on what's best for you and the kids.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> UGH.
> 
> I'm a suspicious person of the intent of others (not paranoid, there's a difference ). She wants to make it clear to you that your not being there doesn't bother her. She could have easily had them in another room (bedroom out of common space) if she knew you were going to be there.
> 
> It's like spitting in your face, I don't care who they came from.


Yup. She may have even bought them herself to have there when you came by. Everyone knows what a dozen red roses means. Friends do not buy friends a dozen roses. She, as said above, just spit in your face. Unless you came unannounced, she knew exactly what she was doing.

So, she is either an insensitive and self centered bi*ch; Or does not have what it takes to just be honest with you, end your suffering, and tell you it's over, thereby prolonging your suffering. Or, a third option, she's playing the jealousy card, and is trying to hurt you.

In which of the above 3 scenarios do you feel this is a woman you want to continue to be married to?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> This is a very potent tool in your box: moving back in. Acorn, are you on the paperwork for your home? If so, move in ASAP.
> 
> Just tell her you're making the decisions now based on what's best for you and the kids.


100% agreement.

Do it.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> This is a very potent tool in your box: moving back in. Acorn, are you on the paperwork for your home? If so, move in ASAP.
> 
> Just tell her you're making the decisions now based on what's best for you and the kids.


I agree, but be aware that she may pack up and move out, with the kids, to somewhere not as good for them. My W did this with her ex (no kids though). He did exactly that. After 6 months, he walked back in one day and said "this is my house too, I'm back". Unfortunately for him, he was doing it in an effort to force his way back into her life, rather than discuss the real issues and work on them. It backfired. She gathered her belongings and was gone hours later, never to return. Only a year later did he admit he did so not out of a sense of ownership of the house, but rather out of trying to force a reconcilliation. A reconcilliation he could have probably had long before had he stopped drinking, opened up, and attempted to work on things instead of being closed off and forcing her into trying to accept him as he was so he wouldn't have to change. She has said that when he did that (walked back in the way he did), it was the final nail in the coffin of the marriage. By the time he finally did make some real change many months later, worked on himself, quit drinking, and finally approached her to talk, it was too late. 

At any rate, just be aware, she may move out and take the kids with her. Is that what you want? I'm not being sarcastic, it is a very real question you must answer for yourself.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

So, I decided to do something crazy on Saturday. I called my wife, asked if she minded being with the kids for a week, and went away on a vacation. I didn't tell anyone where I'd be going, I just got on a plane and left. Had some fun, saw new things, tried new food, and had a chance to think, etc. Basically, I did something I've never done before, I shut off the cell and blackberry and went dark.

On Tuesday, at the half way point of my trip, I turned my stuff on to check for emergencies. I got a text on Saturday, the day I left, asking if I was still home. I got an email on Sunday asking if I was back. I got a text on Monday asking if I was back. On Tuesday, I got 5 emails from my 5 closest friends asking for my whereabouts - she had called them asking for help finding me.

Keep in mind - I told her I'd be gone a week.

I ended the blackout by texting that I was fine and would call when I got home. "Thx", I got back.

And perhaps the funniest thing about this whole thing was that just a few weeks prior, she went on a vacation with her family of the same length and only contacted me once.

I talked with my friend and he relayed her story - "She said to me, 'I have no doubt this will get back to Acorn, but even though we are having problems I still love him and I'm worried about him.' She also said you have always been very predictable and it is not like you to disappear like this."

When I got home and called, she wanted to know all the details of the trip - no outpouring of worry, no revelations that she missed me, no I love yous or come home. She's stressed about Mother's Day; apparently she's overbooked with her family commitments and is stressed out. 

In an odd way, this story summarizes a lot of what I've decided on my trip. 1) I think that she harbors a great deal of resentment to me, but she is quite afraid to be without me at the same time. There is a big part of her that doesn't like me very much, though she will not tell me. 2) She is, generally speaking, afraid of showing need/desire/want/emotion to me. 3) She thinks I cannot take care of myself, that I will always need her like a child would. 4) When I am with her or think about her, I am generally miserable knowing what she thinks of me, and my efforts seem misplaced.

I've decided to believe her about the roses and all the other things that she's done that have been questionable. I've decided to believe that she does love me deep down. I've also decided that to go back would mean a lifetime of living with someone who cannot get past her own resentment and is unwilling to work on it. It would also mean a lifetime of living someone who is afraid to show through actions that she loves me - at least, in actions that resonate with me.

She is just so different from anyone I've ever known. If someone I loved disappeared and I was that freaked out about it, I'd hug them, hold them tight, tell them how worried I was and how glad I was they were back. With her, the minute she heard I was OK, the status quo was restored and she could move on to the next issue. 

I am going to proceed along the path to divorce, although I may slow it down a few weeks to give her some time to process her feelings about what happened inside her when I left. She is very slow to access her feelings sometimes. Assuming nothing changes, I will eventually tell her about my thoughts on living with her for a lifetime, and file.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Halien said:


> We've replied to each other's threads enough that I hope you know that I wasn't trying to be insulting with the above comment, Acorn. For a long time, you've tried to tell her that you don't want just an average marriage. You want more, and you are willing to do your share. It's very telling that you think that she is partially driven by anger here. On the one hand, my wife could admit that she really needed to address her depression more aggressively, and that the effect of being very critical wouldn't just go away with a simple apology, but our 'discussions' really angered her. I had to learn to short circuit these PA types of games, and tell her that she needs to put the pride and hurt aside (and so did I) and make a real decision about the marriage. Life just doesn't present us with endless opportunities to delay and put off the decisions we need to make. My point in the above comment was that we can't see what you see when you look in her eyes. We don't see the love beneath the games. In the end, only you can decide what to do, but to an observer, there is alot going on, but nothing that really puts the two of you back together as a mutually happy couple.


Thanks Halien, I appreciate the comments and of course I know no insult was intended. Thank you as always.

I keep thinking, one more chance, one more chance... but the truth is, my love for her is dying every day. Like many are saying in this thread, I'm not so sure the love I have for her is even healthy or if it's a bad thing that it's going away.


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