# Realist Expectation or Covert Contract?



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

In an effort to spend some much needed quality time together (we've been busy preparing for the holidays), H invited me to a lunch date yesterday. I made a point to wake up about an hour earlier than I normally do to get all dolled up _for him_. Sadly, my efforts went unappreciated. He didn't so much as blink when he saw me get out of the car at the restaurant. No compliments or words of appreciation. 

Now let me preface this by saying that I work in a very casual place of employment. My normal "office" attire is jeans and a nice shirt. I only wear dresses when I plan on meeting with clients. My H knew that I wore the dress, styled the hair, and wore nicer make up specifically for him and this date. 

About an hour into the lunch, I casually asked him if he thought I looked nice and he of course responded positively. Made sure to tell me he thought I looked wonderful and apologized for not complimenting me for the effort. Needless to say, I was upset. 

That afternoon I dissected the entire situation in my head and started to think about why I became upset. This exercise shifted my disappointment from H to myself. I felt I set myself up for failure. My logic was that I entered into a covert contract (dress up nice in order to get a compliment in return) or I failed to manage my expectations. Had I not expected a specific outcome, then I wouldn't have been upset when it didn't happen as planned. 

When I mentioned this to my girlfriends, they all said that I _should _be upset at H for not recognizing the extra effort. Knowing my H as they do, they think he takes me to granted (to some extent this is 100% true; he knows it, I know it.) 

So is this a covert contract on my part or a legitimate unmet need? IOW, do I work on managing my expectations by just dressing up when _I_ feel like it (not necessarily to impress H), or do I bring this up to him as something that he takes for granted and should appreciate?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Have you told him before that you need this validation? That is, was the contract really covert or had you brought it up before making it 'overt'?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

From a guys POV, I honestly have never been great with complimenting my wife. In part it doesn't come naturally to me, and I guess I do take for granted that she knows exactly how I feel about her. I think my wife understands this about me though so it hasn't caused any issues.

So in your case I guess I can see both POVs. I can understand why you would be upset after putting in the extra effort and I can see your H maybe being a bit oblivious to this.

I would say try to meet somewhere in the middle. Explain to him why you were upset but maybe give him the benefit of the doubt (unless there have been other issues going on). Its tough, you don't want him to feel like he HAS TO compliment you, but you want him to understand that what you did is not only for him, but him appreciating it makes you feel better about yourself as well.

Somewhat similar, my wife will always comment when I don't shave (not negatively, but just comment about my beard). I know she really likes it when I do shave, especially when it is a fresh shave, so there were times where I would shave expecting to get all these compliments and she wouldn't even notice until hours or even the next day. I guess it did bug me at first but I know she isn't doing it intentionally to hurt me so I have adjusted my expectations with this (all November I had a beard thanks to No Shave November, finally shaved in December and she didn't comment until the following day lol).

Sorry, bit or rambling, I can see your POV (as I have been on that end) and your H's ( as I have been on that end as well!).


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Have you told him before that you need this validation? That is, was the contract really covert or had you brought it up before making it 'overt'?


I've told him in the past that he needs to tell me when he likes what he sees otherwise I'm going to assume that the extra effort is wasted effort. There's no reason for me to go the extra mile when I don't have to and don't want to.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Hard for it to be a covert contract after having that conversation.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Lila said:


> My logic was that I entered into a covert contract (dress up nice in order to get a compliment in return) or I failed to manage my expectations. Had I not expected a specific outcome, then I wouldn't have been upset when it didn't happen as planned.


This.



Lila said:


> IOW, do I work on managing my expectations by just dressing up when _I_ feel like it (not necessarily to impress H)


This.



Lila said:


> I've told him in the past that he needs to tell me when he likes what he sees otherwise I'm going to assume that the extra effort is wasted effort. There's no reason for me to go the extra mile when I don't have to and don't want to.


This.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I think it is still a covert contract because he may not remember that conversation at the moment he needs to, for you to be satisfied with the outcome.

If that conversation was very recent, maybe I would have a different opinion.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I would say try to meet somewhere in the middle. Explain to him why you were upset but maybe give him the benefit of the doubt (unless there have been other issues going on). Its tough, you don't want him to feel like he HAS TO compliment you, but you want him to understand that what you did is not only for him, but him appreciating it makes you feel better about yourself as well.


I agree this is a tough call which is why I'm torn. H is like you where he does not compliment me often, not because he doesn't appreciate it, but because he assumes that because I'm a confident person that I don't need him to show appreciation. However, like your wife, he's not afraid to express his discontent when he doesn't like what he sees. 

You've given a great idea Ellis. My H is an engineer and very logical. I'm going to ask him if he would continue to go above and beyond at his job if the response from his clients/boss was the same regardless of level of effort. Maybe it'll sink in this time?


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

Lila said:


> I've told him in the past that he needs to tell me when he likes what he sees otherwise I'm going to assume that the extra effort is wasted effort. There's no reason for me to go the extra mile when I don't have to and don't want to.



I always make a point to tell my wife that she looks good when I see that she's made an effort. 

She is not one to get done up on a regular basis. I really like it when she does, and she knows that I like her to fix her hair, wear makeup, and dress nice when we are out. I really hate frumpy, sloppy clothes and tshirts, but she feels comfortable in that stuff. It's more of a confidence thing (or lack thereof). Put together people are attractive. So, I just positively reinforce her when she makes an effort. Literally any effort, not just when it's total package to the nines. I no longer make any comment on her a appearance if she ventures out in sweats and a top knot. It doesn't help her self image, it's counterproductive. 

If she was the type that always fixed up, wouldn't dare leave the house without full makeup, etc. I would think it was less for me and I might reserve praise a little more. But I know when she fixes up that it has probably a little or a lot to do with making me happy, so I ooh and ahh and mean it. 

If you don't normally dress up, fix up to that level, I would think that it would most certainly warrant some praise. I would say very few people don't need or want that validation from their partner. 

I would say to him that it made you feel like **** that you made all this effort to get dolled up and he acted like it was nothing. Then drop it. But give him another chance to make it up to you in the near future. If he fails again, I would wear whatever you damn well feel like. And if he makes a comment say that you didn't think he cared since he doesn't praise you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> I agree this is a tough call which is why I'm torn. H is like you where he does not compliment me often, not because he doesn't appreciate it, but because he assumes that because I'm a confident person that I don't need him to show appreciation. However, like your wife, he's not afraid to express his discontent when he doesn't like what he sees.
> 
> You've given a great idea Ellis. My H is an engineer and very logical. I'm going to ask him if he would continue to go above and beyond at his job if the response from his clients/boss was the same regardless of level of effort. Maybe it'll sink in this time?


Since he is an engineer, maybe explain your feelings to him in a blueprint format :grin2:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

technovelist said:


> I think it is still a covert contract because he may not remember that conversation at the moment he needs to, for you to be satisfied with the outcome.
> 
> If that conversation was very recent, maybe I would have a different opinion.


I can go the route of dressing up when I feel like it for my pleasure. That's not a problem for me. I do agree that I probably should manage my expectations so as not to get disappointed, but I would like to bring the lack of appreciation for the effort up to him. 

How often should I remind him that I need his appreciation? When does it become nagging?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Since he is an engineer, maybe explain your feelings to him in a blueprint format :grin2:


I've learned that Venn Diagrams work much better. :wink2::grin2:


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Lila said:


> I can go the route of dressing up when I feel like it for my pleasure. That's not a problem for me. I do agree that I probably should manage my expectations so as not to get disappointed, but I would like to bring the lack of appreciation for the effort up to him.
> 
> How often should I remind him that I need his appreciation? When does it become nagging?


Do you have a weekly time to discuss issues in your marriage? If so, that would be a good time to bring it up.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Lila said:


> I've told him in the past that he needs to tell me when he likes what he sees otherwise I'm going to assume that the extra effort is wasted effort. There's no reason for me to go the extra mile when I don't have to and don't want to.


I'm a former Nice Guy who used to engage in covert contracts. Since you've had the conversation with him this was not covert. But you did have an attachment to an outcome. In some ways I think you tested him. Which isn't bad, and it isn't a covert contract, but it is a setup if you expected he probably wouldn't notice. Iow, you got confirmation that he wouldn't notice.

But maybe he did notice and just didn't say anything.

Have you read "5 Love Languages"? One of your LLs is probably words of affirmation. You need him to say that he likes the way you look. You need him to say he appreciates the effort you made. He has to do more than notice it, he has to say it.

Perhaps you should give him the book and tell him to pay special attention to the section on words of affirmation.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

technovelist said:


> Do you have a weekly time to discuss issues in your marriage? If so, that would be a good time to bring it up.


We don't have weekly meetings which is something we probably need to do.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Thor said:


> I'm a former Nice Guy who used to engage in covert contracts. Since you've had the conversation with him this was not covert. But you did have an attachment to an outcome. In some ways I think you tested him. Which isn't bad, and it isn't a covert contract, but it is a setup if you expected he probably wouldn't notice. Iow, you got confirmation that he wouldn't notice.
> 
> *But maybe he did notice and just didn't say anything.*
> 
> ...


You must have channeled my husband Thor. He said the same thing you wrote above in bold. I sometimes wish I could read his mind. It would resolve so many problems. 

As to your question about Love Languages....we both read the book a while ago. I rate Quality Time #1 followed by Words of Appreciation. Here's what's strange. My husband rated physical touch #1 followed by Words of Appreciation. One would assume that he expresses love in his language however he rarely initiates non-sexual physical contact and as I mentioned earlier, he's quite stingy with the compliments. He's a man of few words. I just wish he would prioritize them in order of importance. I don't need to hear about how our dog chased a squirrel down the street. I need to hear that he thinks I look nice. YKWIM?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> You must have channeled my husband Thor. He said the same thing you wrote above in bold. *I sometimes wish I could read his mind. It would resolve so many problems. *


More likely bring up new ones >


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Lila said:


> How often should I remind him that I need his appreciation? When does it become nagging?


It's nagging already. Now you want him to want to give you validation because of a covert expectation. You can not control his mind.

Look. He either likes to see you dress up for him or he doesn't care. If he doesn't care than that's the end of it. Nothing you can do without building resentment. Just wear whatever you want and don't expect compliments.

Now if he does care, then still wear whatever you want and when he complains that you never dress up for him you tell him, "I'm not going to bother to dress up if you can't be bothered to notice and give me a compliment." Thus you create an OVERT contract.

Men are like dogs. If the dog wants a treat (ie you to dress up), first you need to make him roll over, play dead and fetch (ie compliment you). Right now you give him the treat (looking all sexy) THEN expecting him to do all the tricks.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

It is not realistic to expect him to complement you every time you put on something you feel merits a compliment. 

It IS reasonable, once you let him know you need this validation, to get say 2 (or 3 or 6?) compliments a week. In other words, it is unfair to ***** about any particular miss on his part but do complain if he misses consistantly over time.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It was a date. She went out of her way to look pretty. He dropped the ball.

My husband rarely paid compliments on anything - appearance, cooking or the house. The only way I knew if he liked something was if someone he was bragging to brought it up to me.

Doing exactly what you want is the way to go. Dress up, look in the mirror, and say "Damn girl, you look fine" and if he doesn't compliment you it just shows his manners are failing.

The funny thing is that my husband loved compliments. If he got a haircut with 1/4" cut off, he would follow me around the house asking me if I liked his haircut. I had 6" cut off my hair and he didn't notice for 2 months.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Most guys will realize that they need to change when they stop getting the sex they want.

Now, I think it would be most productive to think about what is in his heart.

In your way of looking at things - No complement = my husband does not love me
But does your husband really "not love you"? Is that in his heart? Probably not. He's just an oaf and failed an opportunity to make you feel good. But it's a mistake to get your girfriends riled up about this.. a Big mistake.

One strategy is thinking about what you do that is important to him.... ask him, How would you feel if you painted the living room and I did not tell you it looked nice or make any comment at all? You would probably think I did not appreciate you and your efforts... Well that's how I feel if I get dressed up an you say nothing.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> 1) Now if he does care, then still wear whatever you want and when he complains that you never dress up for him you tell him, "I'm not going to bother to dress up if you can't be bothered to notice and give me a compliment." Thus you create an OVERT contract.
> 
> Men are like dogs. If the dog wants a treat (ie you to dress up), first you need to make him roll over, play dead and fetch (ie compliment you). Right now you give him the treat (looking all sexy) THEN expecting him to do all the tricks.


Unfortunately for me, my leverage with him is limited because I do dress nicely more often than naught. So using your dog analogy, he gets the treat just for being my dog. 

My best bet is to bring it up when he does complain. Again to use your dog analogy, say "no", and then snap the trainer collar.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You want validation/appreciation from him. What does he want from you, and do you provide it? The mutually positive reinforcement cycle has to begin somewhere, and if he isn't doing so, you may have to start, reminding him that an appropriate response is needed, and do this a few times to see if he then starts to respond on is own. If not, then your efforts are wasted, and you'll have to think of something else to do - or stop doing.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

anonmd said:


> It is not realistic to expect him to complement you every time you put on something you feel merits a compliment.
> 
> It IS reasonable, once you let him know you need this validation, to get *say 2 (or 3 or 6?) compliments a week*. In other words, it is unfair to ***** about any particular miss on his part but do complain if he misses consistantly over time.


2 or 3 or 6 compliments A WEEK????? My husband is stingy with his. No joke, he probably compliments me on my "clothed" appearance probably 8-10 times A YEAR, if that. In his defense, he knows that I don't expect compliments when we go on regular evening dates only because I understand that the expectation is for me to look my best. This time bothered me because I don't typically dress like that to go to work but I made the extra effort to look nice for him.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> It was a date. She went out of her way to look pretty. He dropped the ball.
> 
> My husband rarely paid compliments on anything - appearance, cooking or the house. The only way I knew if he liked something was if someone he was bragging to brought it up to me.
> 
> ...



Your post made me laugh and cry at the same time. 

I think the part that hurt the most was that I had other people tell me that I looked nice but yet my husband didn't even blink. Kind of hard not to notice the difference between my typical work clothes (mall clothes and flats) and the pencil skirt dress and f-me pumps was wearing. :|

Men like my husband and your ex are either oblivious or spoiled.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Most guys will realize that they need to change when they stop getting the sex they want.
> 
> Now, I think it would be most productive to think about what is in his heart.
> 
> ...


Why do you think it was a big mistake to get some feedback from my girlfriends? Isn't that what girlfriends are for....to vent and get a listening ear?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> You want validation/appreciation from him. What does he want from you, and do you provide it? The mutually positive reinforcement cycle has to begin somewhere, and if he isn't doing so, you may have to start, *reminding him that an appropriate response is needed*, and do this a few times to see if he then starts to respond on is own. If not, then your efforts are wasted, and you'll have to think of something else to do - or stop doing.


I can say with 100 % assurance that I provide everything he wants of me. I think that's why I thought this was a poor management of expectations of my part. 

You stated "reminding him that an appropriate response is needed". How do I do this? 

He shuts down when I ask him if he thinks I look nice because he realizes he missed an opportunity.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It sounds like he needs to learn not to shut down when prompted. If you're not accusatory, and only asking, explain this to him - it's an opportunity to recover from failing to notice, and that is better than doubling down on the problem by ALSO shutting down! If he knows that you still appreciate a sincere - but prompted - response, and that shutting down adds insult to oversight, he may feel better about just being nice about it.

I forget or fail to notice sometimes, and my wife prompts me. It still works for her when I respond. She can even tell me what and how to say it if I'm at a loss, and it STILL works for her! Just saying it goes a very long way towards making her happy.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lila said:


> You've given a great idea Ellis. *My H is an engineer and very logical. * I'm going to ask him if he would continue to go above and beyond at his job if the response from his clients/boss was the same regardless of level of effort. Maybe it'll sink in this time?


How timely this is.. 3rd son's GF was just pming me...she sent me this write up on Romance.. the little things , wanted to know what I thought.. I loved it.. we got to talking.. and moments before I read this post . I literally pmed her about son... he's going for Engineering next year... I said >> "I tend to think most Engineering minds are too logical and they fall short" (romantically speaking)...

She replies.....

"ahhh. and yeah, I can tell. we'll be walking somewhere or going past something of the sort and I'll see him look at it and I can tell that he's trying to figure out how it works, or he'll stop and stare at it for a moment." 

Men! She did go on to say he is not oblivious..and does some small things. but he seems to put work above everyone else..


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Men like my husband and your ex are either oblivious or spoiled."

Not my ex - my late husband. His mother would get her hair done every week and flounce in the door and go up to every single person and ask "do you like my hair?". I think he got weary of giving compliments before I was ever on the scene.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Lila said:


> 2 or 3 or 6 compliments A WEEK????? My husband is stingy with his. No joke, he probably compliments me on my "clothed" appearance probably 8-10 times A YEAR, if that. In his defense, he knows that I don't expect compliments when we go on regular evening dates only because I understand that the expectation is for me to look my best. This time bothered me because I don't typically dress like that to go to work but I made the extra effort to look nice for him.


All I can say is that men and women are different.

Men generally want to be appreciated for what they do, the role they play etc. Women generally want compliments on their appearance. 

Most men figure this out over time but yours is having trouble with it. And BTW if the "clothed" compliments are stingy are the "unclothed" compliments generous? If so he could be really confused! :grin2:


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## Sure that could work (Jun 9, 2015)

Lila said:


> I can say with 100 % assurance that I provide everything he wants of me. I think that's why I thought this was a poor management of expectations of my part.
> 
> You stated "reminding him that an appropriate response is needed". How do I do this?
> 
> He shuts down when I ask him if he thinks I look nice because he realizes he missed an opportunity.


That is called a rock and a hard place......is a compliment really a compliment if you have to prompt the person to make the compliment? To me it is the spur of the moment.....you look so nice, hot, whatever said without being prompted that makes the day. If I need to remind someone to compliment me then I might as well just compliment myself and be done with it......and it is not a contract to expect the one you love to notice if you look nice or went to special lengths for THEM. 

Just a question....if you know you aren't likely to get complimented why do you have an expectation that you will be complimented? The expectation must have been there if you were disappointed when the compliment didn't come. 

In the ideal world we would each be secure in our own selection of clothing and grooming habits that we would not need to be complimented by others, we would just know we looked great and wouldn't need our special person to put it into words how wonderful we look. Perhaps next time in front of your husband you could pull out a compact mirror and say into it to yourself, "Wow, I look good today." See what your husband says to that. LOL


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm going to say, "No."

Covert contracts are both opaque and unilateral. They're opaque in the sense that it is not usually apparent that any sort social dept is being incurred and they're unilateral inasmuch as the originator has predetermined the currency in which that dept will be repaid, when any number of other responses might also be appropriate. 

In this case, there's nothing opaque about dressing up and complimenting you partner's appearance on a "date" is Etiquette 101. 

Having said this though, it sounds like your pique might be disproportionate to the _faux pas_. Obviously you know your husband better than we do, but speaking as a man, there are a gazillion reasons why I might not immediately notice that my wife has dressed up for the occasion.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> How timely this is.. 3rd son's GF was just *pimping* me...


OK, I think I am done internetting for today as I read your post originally as above lol ...


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Let me add some perspective.....I have been with the same woman for 50 years......She is awesome......I give her compliments all the time. Not just when she dresses up, and probably not every time she dresses up....But you can bet, every time I compliment her it is heart felt, and for every one she gets there is one in my heart that just doesn't get past my lips.....She is my soul mate, and owe her too much to tell.....

If your husband gives you a compliment from the heart it is worth 100 X more than one he feels compelled to give....

And I can assure you, at times when you see him sitting quietly, he is thinking how wonderful you are and how lucky he is.....

If you ever think he has slighted you with lack of praise, Just slide up to him and give him a real and sincere kiss.....It will be a great reminder of how special you are, and good karma will come your way....


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lila said:


> You stated "reminding him that an appropriate response is needed". How do I do this?


This was in response to MBH, but I'll take a stab...

When you want something a certain way, the best way to get it is to be assertive. Not in a bossy or demanding way, just a confidently assertive way.

In a case like this, it should also be in a playful and flirty way.

"You know, maybe it makes me an attention wh*re, but I really REALLY want to hear you tell me specifically about how delicious I look to you, with as many words and details as possible, and as often as possible." And other variations of this, done in a light hearted fun way.

When we try to say to them "but...I do wish you would compliment me more" it just puts them in a bad spot and also accuses them of letting you down. If instead, you accept that they "just don't give compliments", yet you ask them to step outside their zone for you, because you "wink wink" really REALLY like it, things can shift.

It may have to be reinforced a few times. But if you express that you are not afraid to ask for what you want (reasonable things, like this) in a way that promises to reward them for it, too...they usually respond pretty well.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> "Men like my husband and your ex are either oblivious or spoiled."
> 
> Not my ex - my late husband. His mother would get her hair done every week and flounce in the door and go up to every single person and ask "do you like my hair?". I think he got weary of giving compliments before I was ever on the scene.


I'm sorry about my error Blondilocks. I didn't realize your husband had passed.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

anonmd said:


> All I can say is that men and women are different.
> 
> Men generally want to be appreciated for what they do, the role they play etc. Women generally want compliments on their appearance.
> 
> Most men figure this out over time but yours is having trouble with it. And BTW if the "clothed" compliments are stingy are the "unclothed" compliments generous? If so he could be really confused! :grin2:


The "unclothed" compliments BOUNTIFUL so yeah, he's extremely confused.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> It was a date. She went out of her way to look pretty. He dropped the ball.
> 
> My husband rarely paid compliments on anything - appearance, cooking or the house. The only way I knew if he liked something was if someone he was bragging to brought it up to me.
> 
> ...


Heh, I know how this goes. DH doesn't compliment me. If I ever mention it he tells me he says nice things about me TO OTHER PEOPLE. I don't really understand how he thinks this works because I haven't heard it, and frankly doubt it. If you don't say nice things to someone's face, is it more likely or less to say them when they're not around?

That said, I used to think it didn't matter much, but if you ever get criticism from them and try to weigh it against something nice they've said, and come up with nothing, there is only criticism. This then breeds resentment.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Lila said:


> The "unclothed" compliments BOUNTIFUL so yeah, he's extremely confused.



OK, making progress here!

If he genuinely appreciates / worships your goddess like naked form frequently, clothing may just dim your radiance in his eyes>. Why comment on that?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Sure said:


> Just a question....if you know you aren't likely to get complimented why do you have an expectation that you will be complimented? The expectation must have been there if you were disappointed when the compliment didn't come.


LOL, that's the million dollar question. It's the reason that I was so upset with myself after I'd had a few hours to think it through. I set myself up for failure and felt stupid for getting upset about it afterwards. 




Sure said:


> In the ideal world we would each be secure in our own selection of clothing and grooming habits that we would not need to be complimented by others, we would just know we looked great and wouldn't need our special person to put it into words how wonderful we look. Perhaps next time in front of your husband you could pull out a compact mirror and say into it to yourself, "Wow, I look good today." See what your husband says to that. LOL



LOL. I think I just need to accept that he's not someone who readily gives out compliments. I can either learn to live with it or leave him, and in all honesty, this isn't the hill I want to die on. I'll just accept the compliments that come from others as genuine and call it a day. :smile2:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> I'm going to say, "No."
> 
> Covert contracts are both opaque and unilateral. They're opaque in the sense that it is not usually apparent that any sort social dept is being incurred and they're unilateral inasmuch as the originator has predetermined the currency in which that dept will be repaid, when any number of other responses might also be appropriate.
> 
> ...


So name a few of those reasons.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> Let me add some perspective.....I have been with the same woman for 50 years......She is awesome......I give her compliments all the time. Not just when she dresses up, and probably not every time she dresses up....But you can bet, every time I compliment her it is heart felt, and for every one she gets there is one in my heart that just doesn't get past my lips.....She is my soul mate, and owe her too much to tell.....


That's beautiful Woodchuck. Your wife is a lucky lady.



Woodchuck said:


> If your husband gives you a compliment from the heart it is worth 100 X more than one he feels compelled to give....
> 
> And I can assure you, at times when you see him sitting quietly, he is thinking how wonderful you are and how lucky he is.....


I understand what you're saying but I need for him to give me some indication of his feelings. Let me give you a idea of what's going on in my head during type this scenario. I've just had several people use words like "sexy", "stunning", "hot", and "looking good Lila" to compliment me but my _husband_, the only man whose attention I care to grab, can't even garner an interested look. Just takes the wind out of one's sails, YKWIM? It's disappointing. 



Woodchuck said:


> If you ever think he has slighted you with lack of praise, Just slide up to him and give him a real and sincere kiss.....It will be a great reminder of how special you are, and good karma will come your way....


Don't you think this would only be rewarding the negative behavior?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> This was in response to MBH, but I'll take a stab...
> 
> When you want something a certain way, the best way to get it is to be assertive. Not in a bossy or demanding way, just a confidently assertive way.
> 
> ...


I agree with being assertive.

Lila, I am not sure my husband would think to compliment me either if I did not ask. He does not need words of affirmation so it does not usually occur to him to give them.

So I just go right up to him and ask him to say something nice to me, just that directly. And then he does.

Now, for sure, it is not as special as a compliment that comes spontaneously from him. But he is always sincere, and that means something, too. 

Do you think that could work for you?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> This was in response to MBH, but I'll take a stab...
> 
> When you want something a certain way, the best way to get it is to be assertive. Not in a bossy or demanding way, just a confidently assertive way.
> 
> ...


I agree that using "I do wish you would compliment me more" or asking "don't you think I look nice" does nothing to help the situation. BTDT. 

You've given me a great suggestion FW. I won't give up on this just yet, but will use the assertive route next time and see how he responds.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

breeze said:


> That said, I used to think it didn't matter much, but if you ever get criticism from them and try to weigh it against something nice they've said, and come up with nothing, there is only criticism. This then breeds resentment.


BINGO! You've nailed it Breeze. My husband says he's thinking it. How the heck am I supposed to know what's going on inside his head. I do a lot of things well but I don't read minds.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lila said:


> You've given me a great suggestion FW. I won't give up on this just yet, but will use the assertive route next time and see how he responds.


assertive + sexy + flirty = there's something in it for him if he does it


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

anonmd said:


> OK, making progress here!
> 
> If he genuinely appreciates / worships your goddess like naked form frequently, clothing may just dim your radiance in his eyes>. Why comment on that?


Because I want him to recognize that I went through effort to look good for him in public. 

Most men would respond positively(with glowing compliments) to a naked woman with a semi-decent body who happens to be available for their pleasure. Put some clothes on her and that number drops to only those who genuinely find her beautiful.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

jld said:


> I agree with being assertive.
> 
> Lila, I am not sure my husband would think to compliment me either if I did not ask. He does not need words of affirmation so it does not usually occur to him to give them.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure but I'm going to try right now. BRB.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lila said:


> Most men would respond positively(with glowing compliments) to a naked woman with a semi-decent body who happens to be available for their pleasure. Put some clothes on her and that number drops to only those who genuinely find her beautiful.


Hmm...I think you'll have to get over this. It is your own hurdle, not his. Not giving compliments doesn't mean a man doesn't think you are beautiful with your clothes on, it just means he doesn't give compliments.

As we all know, while fully clothed, plenty of random men give "compliments" in various forms...but those guys don't necessarily think we are "beautiful". They may be complimenting you even with very little attraction to you, simply because they take a stab at every woman who walks by.

And also, some men can think you are beautiful but not want to get all caught up in that feeling most of the time. It can be quite distracting to notice a woman's beauty all of the time. So they put on their blinders so they can get some work done, or because they are attached to someone else, or because many other reasons.

So try to let go of "what it means" that he doesn't compliment you, and just assert your preference of being complimented with your clothes ON.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lila said:


> I'm not sure but I'm going to try right now. BRB.


It helps if you start by plopping down on his lap and cuddling into him first.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Lila said:


> I'm not sure but I'm going to try right now. BRB.





jld said:


> It helps if you start by plopping down on his lap and cuddling into him first.


{sigh} It didn't work. I asked him to say something nice to me. His response was "you did a good job fixing the lights on the Christmas tree", LOL. He's distracted right now dealing with....of all things......the outdoor Christmas lights that stopped working today. One track mind folks, one track mind.

The more I think about my lack of expectations of him the more I think I've created a monster. :crying: I need to find a way to reverse this.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Lila said:


> BINGO! You've nailed it Breeze. My husband says he's thinking it. How the heck am I supposed to know what's going on inside his head. I do a lot of things well but I don't read minds.


wow what a double standard. you are stating you don't read minds...and almost seem annoyed you should be expected to do so.

funny, you expected your husband to READ YOUR MIND in that you were looking for a compliment "how you dressed up for him"

maybe you should apply what you think is normal for yourself towards his inability to read your mind.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The only thing you got wrong was not being specific enough and assertive about getting his attention. 

Being assertive sometimes means having good timing too. 

Later tonight when you know he is not busy with anything else, do it again and say "I wasn't specific enough earlier....tell me something good about how hot I am" (or your way of phrasing) and add to it a lot of sexy suggestive affection.

You'll both get the hang of it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lila said:


> {sigh} It didn't work. I asked him to say something nice to me. His response was "you did a good job fixing the lights on the Christmas tree", LOL. He's distracted right now dealing with....of all things......the outdoor Christmas lights that stopped working today. One track mind folks, one track mind.
> 
> The more I think about my lack of expectations of him the more I think I've created a monster. :crying: I need to find a way to reverse this.


Were you specific? 

Really lay it out for him. "Please tell me nice things about x,y,z." "Okay, I need to hear more because I am not feeling warm and cuddly with you yet."

To him, being told you did a good job with the lights is probably something _he_ would like to hear. But you need something meaningful to _you_. Explain that to him, with examples.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

jld said:


> To him, being told you did a good job with the lights is probably something _he_ would like to hear. But you need something meaningful to _you_. Explain that to him, with examples.


I agree that conversations usually have to happen in order to create change. So yes, have one or two short conversations like jld describes.

But after that, drop it and just create your NEW monster, by plopping on his lap and asking to hear it when you want to hear it. Be assertive in getting this need met, and after awhile it will become more of a habit for him. 

I think @Anon Pink has had to employ this type of strategy too, hopefully she will chime in.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Lila said:


> So name a few of those reasons.


_My vehicle was making a funny noise.

Her vehicle was making a funny noise.

I've just been on the phone with a problem customer.

I'm still mentally wrestling with a work problem and haven't completely shifted gears yet.

There was a letter from the IRS in our mailbox

I have something important to discuss with her

There may have been other legitimate reasons for dressing up.

The outfit in question is one I've seen many times before. 

I don't notice people's clothes at first glance. 

My wife has not been on time for anything in her life and lunch dates are usually rushed.

I'm racking my brain for a place to eat that, A) Serves food we both like and B) We haven't been to already._


All of these boil down to being distracted in one way or another, but hopefully, you get the idea. Eventually, I would notice.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lila, it wasn't a covert contract, nor was it unmanaged expectations. You dressed up because you wanted the lunch to be special, not because you were envisioning how he would wax poetical about the gentle arch of your perfectly plucked brows and how your nail polish really popped against the back drop of your black dress. But, a raised eyebrow, a suggestive look would have been all the compliment you needed. You put effort into getting pretty and when we put extra effort into anything we want it appreciated. 

So how to get him to give compliments.... "I'm all dressed up, tell me something nice that will make me blush." When he inevitably wiffs it, roll your eyes like a girl, because you ARE one, and ask him to try again. Give him compliments and give him the suggestive appreciative leers that you want from him. Then point it out to him what you just did.

FW is right though, don't make him feel like he is incompetent because then he won't even try.

If you're very lucky, every once in a while he might give you a sincere compliment that is unique to him and to you. Say once every few months or so.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Lila said:


> Because I want him to recognize that I went through effort to look good for him in public.
> 
> Most men would respond positively(with glowing compliments) to a naked woman with a semi-decent body who happens to be available for their pleasure. Put some clothes on her and that number drops to only those who genuinely find her beautiful.


of course you do, I understand that.

Just trying to give you a glimpse into his brain, maybe.

I'll give you an example, because you know, it is just a few anonymous friends here lol.

Known my wife around 25 years. I'm quite confident I did not compliment her clothed appearance super frequently in the early years. For example, like most women, she would not go out in public without at least some makeup. I did say to her several times, and meant it, that she was beautiful without so why bother?

These days she gets many compliments on how fabulous she looks, if she does of course, and she often does. Anyway, she still does the makeup before facing the world. While I am perfectly fine with the raw her, she kinda needs it a bit these days. And the clothing applies shape to what gravity has moved around a bit over the years as well. Maybe it is easier to notice the fab outfit because now it actually takes some work to pull off the knockout look.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lila said:


> 2 or 3 or 6 compliments A WEEK????? * My husband is stingy with his. No joke, he probably compliments me on my "clothed" appearance probably 8-10 times A YEAR,* if that. In his defense, he knows that I don't expect compliments when we go on regular evening dates only because I understand that the expectation is for me to look my best. This time bothered me because I don't typically dress like that to go to work but I made the extra effort to look nice for him.


This has to take the cake >> I know an older woman who almost fainted with her husband's 1st compliment on her appearance....I think she said it was 10 yrs in ... (or maybe 19...I forget -would it even matter!)...

I posted that story on my love languages thread because I found it so outrageous ! I complimented her on her cooking & suggested her husband is a lucky man, I bet he sings her praises.. she went on to say "no".. then gave this crazy story... she'll never forget the day.. or where she was... she was wearing a black dress.. when he told her how good she looked in it... she almost fainted... 
My mouth hung open hearing this.







...I told her one thing is for absolute certainty... she is Not a "Words of affirmation" woman or she would want to shoot that man!! (and yeah I meant that!)....

And it's true... they are both high in "acts of service" and "gift's" ...so it was never a huge contention for her...but sure she would have enjoyed more of that over the years.. she will say he does other things that make up for it.. 

She also spoke of how he is not one to say "sentimental" things.... so when he does speak something.. you REALLY TAKE IT TO HEART.. she gave an example of that -relating to her sister...and how much his words meant to her...because it was so rare...

One thing that bothers me is.. I've noticed it many times in postings here.. some seem to Judge those who appreciate compliments like they must lack confidence, need their ego stroked or something.. 

Is it THAT though.. we could take any Love language & demean it with some weakness ... for instance...are "Acts of service" women lazy, why do they need their man to take out the garbage & help with laundry to feel loved (it's true, some will not understand this way of thinking)... are Physical toucher's affection hounds ... are those who love time "Needy"... are those who appreciate gifts "materialistic" ?? 

It is what it is.. we all love to be appreciated.. I see nothing wrong with it.. that you HOPED to hear something "flattering " coming from your husband on a day you got all "dolled up", feeling pretty good.. Sure we can feel that in ourselves.. but still-- it's lovely to hear from our guy ..darn it.. he's supposed to BE our #1 fan !! 

I mentioned this thread to my husband earlier ... I had trouble explaining what a "Covert contract" is.. not real clear on it.. so we skipped that part of it..

He is one who feels if a woman has to ask...that's just no good, something is lost.....

He also said men who miss it here...they'll be put in the "dog house"..







He's just one who feels men need to take notice....most especially if this was a rare occasion, new dress... it doesn't have to even be words.. but *the way* he looks at you.. his reaching for your hand.. putting those 2 together ..WOW... could set us on top of the world... such simple things really ... 

But yeah...just expressing some form of "Desire".. like some of the words from Wonderful tonight - that classic by Eric Clapton.... even in the song though.. she said to him "Do I look alright?" .. and he answered in such a way to lay that to rest.. he was very pleased.. it's not always lost...

Just speaking out loud...of all the love languages.. I can't understand why THIS ONE is so difficult for some... I mean, it costs nothing.. nor does it even require time... some of us are left wondering.. why is it so dagone difficult ...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Somewhere I read that people who don't give compliments fear that doing so will take something away from themselves. As in acknowledging their partner's beauty, athletic prowess etc will elevate the partner above themselves. It sounds like a sick power play from this perspective.

My own Mom will not give compliments but really, really likes getting them. She always brags to other people though. When asked why she doesn't compliment the person directly, she says she doesn't want to give them a big head. Go figure.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lila, Dug is an engineer, too. He is low emo and does not think like I do. But he does love me very much, which is the most important thing, imo.

If your husband is the same, then I would just ask him for what you need, and keep asking for however long it takes to get it. Eventually you may not even be annoyed you have to ask. You might just accept that this is how it works for you two.

Also, try to do more things just because *you* want to do them. Make your own approval the most important thing. Then getting his will be nice, but not feel so pressing.

Have you identified the main need you are trying to fulfill here? Figuring that out, and alternate ways of getting it met, such as the self-approval method I mentioned, can lift the anxiety and be empowering.

Also, to make yourself feel better, think of the things he does for you, spontaneously, that make you feel loved. Usually these are important and really helpful. But because they are always there, we take them for granted. 

That would make for a great thread, actually . . .


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

My late husband didn't give compliments but he also didn't give criticism. 

One of my most beloved gifts he gave to me was a little Taco Bell Chihuahua that when you press the tummy sings "Chances Are" by Johnny Mathis. When he saw how delighted I was, he purchased more in the line and gave them to me throughout the year. These little critters are more treasured than the diamonds and pearls he bestowed on me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

That's beautiful, blondi.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> _My vehicle was making a funny noise.
> 
> Her vehicle was making a funny noise.
> 
> ...


Someone else asked me earlier in the thread why I was so upset _this _time knowing that my husband is stingy with compliments. Your post above helped me to understand _why_. 

The biggest complaint that I have had in recent years against my husband is that I feel that he does not make me a priority. Our son, the dogs, his job, our house all take precedence over me. We've been able to work through this to some extent but it still pops up occasionally. 

In this particular situation, the date was his way of saying 'hey, you're a priority and I'm thinking of you', but he didn't follow through on the important part, being 'mentally present'. For whatever reason, he was so distracted that he didn't notice _me_ and the effort I had put into my appearance. So maybe it isn't the lack of compliments in general that has me upset. It's the fact that he couldn't dedicate 1 hour to shift his focus to me. The lack of a compliment was just proof that he wasn't paying attention.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Lila, it wasn't a covert contract, nor was it unmanaged expectations. *You dressed up because you wanted the lunch to be special*, not because you were envisioning how he would wax poetical about the gentle arch of your perfectly plucked brows and how your nail polish really popped against the back drop of your black dress. But, *a raised eyebrow, a suggestive look would have been all the compliment you needed.* You put effort into getting pretty and when we put extra effort into anything we want it appreciated.
> 
> So how to get him to give compliments.... "I'm all dressed up, tell me something nice that will make me blush." When he inevitably wiffs it, roll your eyes like a girl, because you ARE one, and ask him to try again. Give him compliments and give him the suggestive appreciative leers that you want from him. Then point it out to him what you just did.
> 
> ...


You captured my feelings on this matter perfectly. I seriously wasn't looking for anything as deep as an 'Ode to Lila'. A look of appreciation, a "Wow", a smile even....anything to acknowledge me and my efforts. That's it. 

Thanks for the encouragement and the suggestion AP. I'm glad I'm not the alone in this. I honestly don't know if this is a personality trait or a FOO issue with my husband but it's something that I signed on for and must make the best of.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This has to take the cake >> I know an older woman who almost fainted with her husband's 1st compliment on her appearance....I think she said it was 10 yrs in ... (or maybe 19...I forget -would it even matter!)...
> 
> I posted that story on my love languages thread because I found it so outrageous ! I complimented her on her cooking & suggested her husband is a lucky man, I bet he sings her praises.. she went on to say "no".. then gave this crazy story... she'll never forget the day.. or where she was... she was wearing a black dress.. when he told her how good she looked in it... she almost fainted...
> My mouth hung open hearing this.
> ...




You made me laugh with the story about your friend and her husband. H is not quite as bad as that with the words of affirmation but like her husband, he expresses his love a different way. He says his primary love language is physical touch but he's not a touchy feely person. I am, so I'm the one that almost always initiates touch. But he's big on acts of service. Weird no? 

I think Ocotillo's last post helped me to understand something else about this situation that I hadn't thought about. I'm a Quality Time person and by that I mean intentional and fully present. I'd rather forgo spending time with someone if they don't plan on being fully present. This is why I hate, absolutely HATE when I'm with someone who can't put their cell phone away. 

Same thing with H except his cell phone is his distracted mind. I think that's why the lack of a compliment this time hurt so badly. He didn't notice. He wasn't present.

Tell Mr. SA that Mr. L is not in the dog house over this. He knows how I feel on the subject and I'm putting the ball back into his court. He has to be the one to make the decision to be intentional about making me a priority. I hope he'll come to understand that 'he who tends his garden reaps the sweetest fruit'.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

jld said:


> Lila, Dug is an engineer, too. He is low emo and does not think like I do. But he does love me very much, which is the most important thing, imo.
> 
> If your husband is the same, then I would just ask him for what you need, and keep asking for however long it takes to get it. Eventually you may not even be annoyed you have to ask. You might just accept that this is how it works for you two.
> 
> ...


My main need from my husband is for him to be a great father to our son. He's consistently met that need and will forever do so regardless of our relationship status. Of that I am 100% sure.

Where we've had hiccups in the past, and continue to do so occasionally, is with my second need - I need for him to make me a priority. This particular unmet need became the focal point of my marital discontent a few years ago, so much so that I was ready to call it quits. He realized that he was taking me for granted and has since put much more effort into trying to meet this need. Unfortunately he sometimes relapses and I'm stuck with the decision to either bring up the 'failure' or give him a break and move on (e.g. not noticing me on Thursday's lunch). The problem with the latter is that he's shown that if I give an inch he'll take a yard....but the former will only cause him to feel like his trying is all for nothing. So I'm stuck. 

Aside from the priority issue, he is a wonderful man. He's even-tempered, humble, and patient as Saint which are all qualities that I lack so I appreciate them even more. He also loves us very much. These are all things that I think about when I am upset over something he did/didn't do. That's why I posted above that he's not in the doghouse for Thursday's faux pas....but I want to avoid feeling hurt by it in the future.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lila said:


> My main need from my husband is for him to be a great father to our son. He's consistently met that need and will forever do so regardless of our relationship status. Of that I am 100% sure.
> 
> Where we've had hiccups in the past, and continue to do so occasionally, is with my second need - I need for him to make me a priority. This particular unmet need became the focal point of my marital discontent a few years ago, so much so that I was ready to call it quits. He realized that he was taking me for granted and has since put much more effort into trying to meet this need. Unfortunately he sometimes relapses and I'm stuck with the decision to either bring up the 'failure' or give him a break and move on (e.g. not noticing me on Thursday's lunch). The problem with the latter is that he's shown that if I give an inch he'll take a yard....but the former will only cause him to feel like his trying is all for nothing. So I'm stuck.
> 
> Aside from the priority issue, he is a wonderful man. He's even-tempered, humble, and patient as Saint which are all qualities that I lack so I appreciate them even more. He also loves us very much. These are all things that I think about when I am upset over something he did/didn't do. That's why I posted above that he's not in the doghouse for Thursday's faux pas....but I want to avoid feeling hurt by it in the future.


Does he say or show his trying is all for nothing? Or is that just what you are thinking about it?

I ask because what I think Dug is thinking is often not what he is actually thinking.

Lila, you have said you are reluctant to try transparency in your marriage. I think that could be helpful here.

Could you share why you hesitate with it?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lila said:


> You made me laugh with the story about your friend and her husband. H is not quite as bad as that with the words of affirmation but like her husband, he expresses his love a different way. *He says his primary love language is physical touch but he's not a touchy feely person. I am, so I'm the one that almost always initiates touch. * But he's big on acts of service. Weird no?


 I would not think he is physical touch if he's not touchy feely.. he probably just loves sex so he associates it as that.. Mr SA is primarily Touch...but I sometimes wish he had a stronger sex drive, go figure.... since he is so touchy feely, it naturally flows into 'getting it on' ... I almost see him as "responsive drive" ... which is more associated with women.. 

Is "Acts of Service" at your bottom Lila? You sound similar to me.. I have TIME and TOUCH at my top... I also would be inner irritated with those who can't put their cell down... especially if it's just the 2 of us.... when I see this behavior with guests, hanging at our house..... I will just talk around them.. and shut them out until they show some active participation... 



> I think Ocotillo's last post helped me to understand something else about this situation that I hadn't thought about. I'm a Quality Time person and by that I mean intentional and fully present. * I'd rather forgo spending time with someone if they don't plan on being fully present. This is why I hate, absolutely HATE when I'm with someone who can't put their cell phone away. *


I got a little angry with my husband on an outing for my B-day last month....more of a sadness I let wash over me... . I am more the conversationalist .. we went out to eat, lovely restaurant out of town...I noticed.. if I don't entertain some things to talk about.. he'd probably sit there in silence.. oh he'll smile at me.. he's not on his cell or anything.. but I'm thinking.. "My [email protected]#"

I let my mind seethe on this... and I thought "Screw him.. I'm gonna sit here, say nothing - till he opens his mouth"... Now granted.. I shouldn't have done this.. and I knew I held the power to make or break that lovely day... so then we drove to this sight seeing place.....he can always read me... so I waited for him to do just that...so he finally asks what is wrong.. I unleash a bit...he pulls me tight on the walking trail.. we make up.. he admits he can offer more conversation, taking a lead.. 

What else can we ask.. the fact they acknowledge.. "yeah I could do better, I'm sorry"... this helps.. we give some grace..some things are just NOT their strong suite ...it doesn't bother them. 

Where else is there to go but "accept them" for their shortcomings...and carry on.... there are so many other things to love & appreciate.. I'm sure you feel this way too...

I just know in our relationship.. If it gets too quiet.. I need to feed the conversation.. 

We gotta weigh the good, if there is so much of it.. with the Bad.. what we feel lacking at times...Hopefully it's not all the time. 



> Same thing with H except his cell phone is his distracted mind. I think that's why the lack of a compliment this time hurt so badly. He didn't notice. He wasn't present.
> 
> Tell Mr. SA that Mr. L is not in the dog house over this. He knows how I feel on the subject and I'm putting the ball back into his court. He has to be the one to make the decision to be intentional about making me a priority. I hope he'll come to understand that 'he who tends his garden reaps the sweetest fruit'.


I think it's more the Priority.. over the "Words of Affirmation" ....as you have written all of this out... it's as simple as ...


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

my opinion is that all you have done is to teach your husband to STOP ASKING YOU TO LUNCH.

he made a nice gesture by asking you to lunch. you took it as him being "distracted" and maybe so.....but who knows....maybe he just got reamed by his boss or whatever.....there could be a valid reason he had something on his mind.

Sorry princess, but you AREN'T the center of the universe. he tried to do something nice and it wasnt good enough as he didnt compliment your looks/outfit at the time.

get over yourself. or keep up the critical view of him and his actions. this type of stuff breeds resentment that will build and destroy your marriage.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

x598 said:


> Sorry princess, but you AREN'T the center of the universe. he tried to do something nice and it wasnt good enough as he didnt compliment your looks/outfit at the time.


It would be nice if men with attitudes like this would just wear a sign around their neck. That way, when we meet or date them, if we don't want to be called names for having specific needs, we can avoid them.

Sadly though, they usually pretend to be something they aren't.

Thankfully, I don't think Lila's husband is anything like this, and would never insult her by calling her a "princess" or tell her to "get over herself" just because she wants her husband's attention and verbal appreciation.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> It would be nice if men with attitudes like this would just wear a sign around their neck. That way, when we meet or date them, if we don't want to be called names for having specific needs, we can avoid them.
> 
> Sadly though, they usually pretend to be something they aren't.
> 
> Thankfully, I don't think Lila's husband is anything like this, and would never insult her by calling her a "princess" or tell her to "get over herself" just because she wants her husband's attention and verbal appreciation.


It's a very demeaning comment.. I agree with you FW .. we all have wants, needs & cravings..."His Needs/ Her Needs" spells this out beautifully...how it's meant to flow - the giving & receiving of our deepest intimacies...

You know I have thought about this turned on it's head... there is a poster here....in speaking of the Love languages.. he has admitted he doesn't think any of them are necessary.... I was like.. "Huh.. what .. [email protected]#"...Now that's a first!

I mean jeez... you're a freaking island.. you have no need of anyone or anything.. I can't imagine how B O R I N G this would be to live with.. might as well go out in the wilderness & live as a Hermit... or a Monk. I can't wrap my head around that.. 

I wouldn't be able to stand a man who didn't crave and want certain parts of a woman....for us to fulfill those physical & emotional places... not so sure JLD will agree with me on this one though... (still love you JLD!).... but that's my take..it goes both ways.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

jld said:


> Does he say or show his trying is all for nothing? Or is that just what you are thinking about it?
> 
> I ask because what I think Dug is thinking is often not what he is actually thinking.
> 
> ...


His response is typically "I understand and I'm trying my best". He's very even-tempered and a man of very few words so it's kind of hard sometimes to get a read for how he feels about anything I say. Sometimes i have to just go with my gut.

The reason for my hesitancy to try 100% transparency is that our previous experiences with it have not gone well. My husband is brutally honest. H uses the sledge hammer approach. For my part, I have too much pride. My mother used to jokenly tell me that when it came to sins and virtues, I must have skipped patience altogether and doubled down on pride. His blunt honesty comes off as an attack which causes me to go into self-preservation mode. Needless to say, transparency is not a good thing for us.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Is "Acts of Service" at your bottom Lila? You sound similar to me.. I have TIME and TOUCH at my top... I also would be inner irritated with those who can't put their cell down... especially if it's just the 2 of us.... when I see this behavior with guests, hanging at our house..... I will just talk around them.. and shut them out until they show some active participation...


Acts of service and gifts are way, way, way down on my list. I'll graciously accept both but they don't _move me_. I do think that acts of service ranks much higher for H than he ranks it but touch is up there as well. Even though he doesn't necessarily show his love that way, he'll notice immediately if I haven't hugged him or rubbed his arm, or cuddled up to him. He's an enigma, to be sure.




SimplyAmorous said:


> I got a little angry with my husband on an outing for my B-day last month....more of a sadness I let wash over me... . I am more the conversationalist .. we went out to eat, lovely restaurant out of town...I noticed.. if I don't entertain some things to talk about.. he'd probably sit there in silence.. oh he'll smile at me.. he's not on his cell or anything.. but I'm thinking.. "My [email protected]#"
> 
> I let my mind seethe on this... and I thought "Screw him.. I'm gonna sit here, say nothing - till he opens his mouth"... Now granted.. I shouldn't have done this.. and I knew I held the power to make or break that lovely day... so then we drove to this sight seeing place.....he can always read me... so I waited for him to do just that...so he finally asks what is wrong.. I unleash a bit...he pulls me tight on the walking trail.. we make up.. he admits he can offer more conversation, taking a lead..
> 
> ...


SA, I've had the same experience with H. Been on a date wondering if he would initiate the conversation if I didn't. He is a man of few words, always has been, so this isn't something that bothers me per se, but I would like to try it just to see what he'd do. :smile2:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lila said:


> His response is typically "I understand and I'm trying my best". He's very even-tempered and a man of very few words so it's kind of hard sometimes to get a read for how he feels about anything I say. Sometimes i have to just go with my gut.
> 
> The reason for my hesitancy to try 100% transparency is that our previous experiences with it have not gone well. My husband is brutally honest. H uses the sledge hammer approach. For my part, I have too much pride. My mother used to jokenly tell me that when it came to sins and virtues, I must have skipped patience altogether and doubled down on pride. His blunt honesty comes off as an attack which causes me to go into self-preservation mode. Needless to say, transparency is not a good thing for us.


I think pride is an issue for all of us. I know I sometimes get mad at what Dug tells me. I need time to get over the hurt before I can look at it objectively. 

And sometimes he is just plain wrong, darn it! 


_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

x598 said:


> my opinion is that all you have done is to teach your husband to STOP ASKING YOU TO LUNCH.
> 
> he made a nice gesture by asking you to lunch. you took it as him being "distracted" and maybe so.....but who knows....maybe he just got reamed by his boss or whatever.....there could be a valid reason he had something on his mind.
> 
> ...



If having emotional needs in a marriage makes me a princess, then so be it. Thankfully my husband doesn't share your opinion. 



Faithful Wife said:


> It would be nice if men with attitudes like this would just wear a sign around their neck. That way, when we meet or date them, if we don't want to be called names for having specific needs, we can avoid them.
> 
> Sadly though, they usually pretend to be something they aren't.
> 
> Thankfully, I don't think Lila's husband is anything like this, and would never insult her by calling her a "princess" or tell her to "get over herself" just because she wants her husband's attention and verbal appreciation.


You're right FW, I could never imagine my h telling me to 'get over myself'. In the 17 years that I've been married to him, he's treated me with utmost respect as his wife, lover, and mother of his child.

And although being called 'princess' would be insulting, I love it when he calls me his queen. :smile2:


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Lila, if I understand correctly you do not want to be transparent with your husband because you fear he will be transparent back and hurt your feelings. But why not just being transparent including telling him when he hurts your feelings? By keeping the communication open he will learn to really think about what he says.

Please keep in mind that you and he are not the same. Just because he may not be as sensitive as you are does not mean you should not be sensitive.

JLD tells me things that if I were to tell her something equivalent would hurt her very much. But the big difference between her and me is that it does not hurt me. So why should I say hurtful things to her?

It is wrong to try to be like your husband like it is wrong to make him like you. Let's be ourselves, but let's listen to each other. 

There is nothing wrong to feel hurt because he did not notice you dressed up for lunch. If he had dressed up for lunch you would have noticed and you would have commented on it. But it will never occur to him to dress up for lunch, this is why he is not wired to notice it. However it does not mean he should not be on alert about those type of things.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Lila said:


> {sigh} It didn't work. I asked him to say something nice to me. His response was *"you did a good job fixing the lights on the Christmas tree"*, LOL. He's distracted right now dealing with....of all things......the outdoor Christmas lights that stopped working today. One track mind folks, one track mind.


It DID work just fine. He said something that he considers nice. That being his go-to compliment means he's probably an acts of service kind of guy. He noticed that you accomplished something well, and it was the first thing that came to mind. To him, what you DO is probably way more important than what you look like.



Lila said:


> Same thing with H except his cell phone is his distracted mind. I think that's why the lack of a compliment this time hurt so badly. He didn't notice. He wasn't present.


At some point when you guys are happy and conversing, introduce this idea to him. That you feel disrespected and unloved when he isn't giving you his undivided attention when it's appropriate. Since that's not his intention, that may get him to start working on avoiding that sort of behaviour, much more so than just complaining that he doesn't compliment you enough.

What you're fishing for with compliments on your appearance, is evidence that he notices you, that you have a visual impact on him. Next date, when you make your grand, dolled up entrance, if you don't get a compliment, or at least a reaction, say "excuse me, gotta redo my grand entrance, it didn't have the effect I wanted," leave, and come right back, maybe sashaying a bit more. If he still says nothing, do it again. Unless he's extremely preoccupied, he'll notice you're up to something, and hopefully have something to say about it. Instead of complaining or sitting in disappointed silence, just be playful about it.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Lila said:


> The biggest complaint that I have had in recent years against my husband is that I feel that he does not make me a priority.


I know exactly how that feels. Being a lower priority in your spouse's mind than the family pets is pretty miserable....




Lila said:


> For *whatever* reason, he was so distracted that he didn't notice me and the effort I had put into my appearance.


Would any distraction have been legitimate? I don't think your expectation was covert, but this statement seems to be pointed in that direction (?)


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Duguesclin said:


> Lila, if I understand correctly you do not want to be transparent with your husband because you fear he will be transparent back and hurt your feelings. But why not just being transparent including telling him when he hurts your feelings? By keeping the communication open he will learn to really think about what he says.


You understood my position but I want to clarify one thing. I can respect honesty from my husband. Where I have issues is in his method of delivery which is the sledge hammer approach. Previously in our relationship, I took many blows before finally crying 'mercy'. 

Did I express my hurt feelings when he told me the blunt truth? Yes. Did it help anything? Not really. His response was to start filtering his thoughts rather than work on his delivery. 

Dug, I won't volunteer to be his 'guinea pig' in order for him to perfect his approach. BTDT and I still have some deep resentments over things he's said in the past that will probably never go away. 



Duguesclin said:


> Please keep in mind that you and he are not the same. Just because he may not be as sensitive as you are does not mean you should not be sensitive.
> 
> JLD tells me things that if I were to tell her something equivalent would hurt her very much. But the big difference between her and me is that it does not hurt me. So why should I say hurtful things to her?
> 
> ...


This is where I hope my h and I can get get to some day. Is this something that he can change or learn to recognize? Sometimes I wonder if this is a personality trait that is innate or ingrained in my h.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> At some point when you guys are happy and conversing, introduce this idea to him. That you feel disrespected and unloved when he isn't giving you his undivided attention when it's appropriate. Since that's not his intention, that may get him to start working on avoiding that sort of behaviour, much more so than just complaining that he doesn't compliment you enough.
> 
> What you're fishing for with compliments on your appearance, is evidence that he notices you, that you have a visual impact on him. Next date, when you make your grand, dolled up entrance, if you don't get a compliment, or at least a reaction, say "excuse me, gotta redo my grand entrance, it didn't have the effect I wanted," leave, and come right back, maybe sashaying a bit more. If he still says nothing, do it again. Unless he's extremely preoccupied, he'll notice you're up to something, and hopefully have something to say about it. Instead of complaining or sitting in disappointed silence, just be playful about it.


Thank you for the suggestion Hopeful Cynic. I think there is general consensus between you, JLD, and Faithful wife that the assertive approach is the one to go with. I'm going to put it to the test this weekend. We have a date planned for Saturday to celebrate a special occasion. I still have no idea what I'm going to wear but even if it's a burlap sack, I'm going to sashay until he says something nice. :laugh:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> I know exactly how that feels. Being a lower priority in your spouse's mind than the family pets is pretty miserable....


Couldn't agree more.




ocotillo said:


> Would any distraction have been legitimate? I don't think your expectation was covert, but this statement seems to be pointed in that direction (?)


To be honest....No. I can't accept half-a$$ measures from him or he'll take advantage of it. We've been down this road before. He knows that the most important thing to me is quality time with him, with my son, with our family. When I make plans with him, they are intentional. I purposefully give him my undivided attention. All I ask is that he return the favor and if he's not able to, then all he has to do is tell me so. He shouldn't give me crumbs and expect me to applaud him for it.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> The biggest complaint that I have had in recent years against my husband is that I feel that he does not make me a priority. Our son, the dogs, his job, our house all take precedence over me. We've been able to work through this to some extent but it still pops up occasionally.


I can definitely relate to this. The problem is, how do you convey it to your SO so they put more priority on you b/c they want to, not b/c you want them to.... 

With my wife at times I definitely feel like the low man on the totem pole. I don't think in any way she is doing it maliciously. I have always been the one constant for her, so in some respects with this comfort level she does take me for granted. On top of that though, I think it is a difference in our personalities. I don't usually dwell on things, and in general I handle stress much better as well as multi tasking. She has a much harder time with this, so it is harder for her to shut her brain off and just enjoy time together instead of thinking about the kids, the house, etc... I have brought this up with her before but I do understand that she does process things different than me. The only time I really dug into her about this was years back. She had traveled for the weekend to her parents with the kids. I had to stay home b/c I was in a fairly decent amount of pain (nothing major, but I had been scheduled for surgery that week). During the entire weekend away not once did she call me to see how I was doing, all I got were some text messages. I am not one who needs a lot of attention, but that didn't sit well with me.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I can definitely relate to this. The problem is, how do you convey it to your SO so they put more priority on you b/c they want to, not b/c you want them to....
> 
> With my wife at times I definitely feel like the low man on the totem pole. I don't think in any way she is doing it maliciously. I have always been the one constant for her, so in some respects with this comfort level she does take me for granted. On top of that though, I think it is a difference in our personalities. I don't usually dwell on things, and in general I handle stress much better as well as multi tasking. She has a much harder time with this, so it is harder for her to shut her brain off and just enjoy time together instead of thinking about the kids, the house, etc... I have brought this up with her before but I do understand that she does process things different than me. The only time I really dug into her about this was years back. She had traveled for the weekend to her parents with the kids. I had to stay home b/c I was in a fairly decent amount of pain (nothing major, but I had been scheduled for surgery that week). During the entire weekend away not once did she call me to see how I was doing, all I got were some text messages. I am not one who needs a lot of attention, but that didn't sit well with me.


Holy cow! I think you and I are living parallel lives. Your description of your wife's inability to 'shut off her brain' fits my husband to a tee. Than one tiny personality trait has caused more havoc in his life than anyone could ever guess. And your surgery situation mimics my emergency room one. I might share that one again one day when it doesn't cause me so much pain. 

I wonder if people like you and I, who are married to people like your wife and my husband, need to become drama kings/queens in order to win this battle?

Btw, love Bob Ross. So many 'happy trees' 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"During the entire weekend away not once did she call me to see how I was doing, all I got were some text messages. I am not one who needs a lot of attention, but that didn't sit well with me."

I hope you reamed her out good. Can't understand partners who take off when they know their loved one is in pain and will have to fend for themselves. The least they could do is arrange for someone to be around to take care of you.

Lila, please let us know how Saturday night goes. If he doesn't notice this time, then only dress for yourself and forget about him ever noticing. Less painful for you.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> Holy cow! I think you and I are living parallel lives. Your description of your wife's inability to 'shut off her brain' fits my husband to a tee. Than one tiny personality trait has caused more havoc in his life than anyone could ever guess. And your surgery situation mimics my emergency room one. I might share that one again one day when it doesn't cause me so much pain.
> 
> I wonder if people like you and I, who are married to people like your wife and my husband, need to become drama kings/queens in order to win this battle?
> 
> ...


Haha, definitely parallel. Hmm ... as far as drama king/queen, we probably do need to raise more of a ruckus from time to time. 

I figured Bob Ross was a bit less intimidating than the "drunken half naked Russian wanna be Santa" I was using before lol.



Blondilocks said:


> "During the entire weekend away not once did she call me to see how I was doing, all I got were some text messages. I am not one who needs a lot of attention, but that didn't sit well with me."
> 
> I hope you reamed her out good. Can't understand partners who take off when they know their loved one is in pain and will have to fend for themselves. The least they could do is arrange for someone to be around to take care of you.


My wife doesn't go to see her family much (they are about 4 hours away) so in this case this was the trip after the holidays for her to take the kids down to see them, I didn't want to ruin that. At the time even though the pain was bad I could still get around, but it just happened to get a lot worse during the weekend, so I ended up having my Dad come over to help out with the dogs, etc... I honestly was ok with my wife being away, just floored that she was so consumed with everything else going on at her parents that she couldn't pick up a phone for 2 minutes to ask how I was doing (along the lines of what Lila was saying, not being able to shut off her mind, so she gets so consumed by what is going on around her that everything else, or least the most stable part being me, gets dropped).


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## yellowmoon (Dec 8, 2015)

Hi
Asking for a compliment is never the right thing to do. If he doesn't say it, maybe he simply didn't notice, or maybe he feels you expect him to tell you something nice which puts pressure on him, or maybe he was just tired. I have noticed that if you give him a kiss, and tell him how much you appreciate it when he actually gives you a compliment it can motivates him more to give you compliments more often.
Having a conversation about how much he is not appreciative is not a positive conversation. However letting him know how much you appreciate his compliments when he actually gives you one will lead to.more compliments. 
Just a thought


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

@Lila

How much do you think your response to your H's response (or really lack of response) is in part b/c you would hope he would respond in the same manner that you would if the roles were reversed? As I think about this more, that is probably where some of my frustration has come from with regards to my W. For example, I always notice if she does something different (hair cut, color, clothes, etc...) yet similar things (such as me shaving yet she somehow notices when I don't shave, haircuts, etc..) will typically go unnoticed. Likewise with the surgery stuff, if I knew she was in any bit of discomfort I would have been calling her constantly to see how she was doing. Although I believe some form of response is warranted, it may to some extent be unrealistic to expect them to respond in the same manner we would (especially considering our SOs seem to have similar traits when it comes to shutting things off around them). I guess that is when we start getting rowdy and start raising all kinds of hell lol >


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@EllisRedding:

I've struggled with projecting my expectations of myself onto my husband in the past. I realized a few years ago that getting mad at my husband because he wasn't responding to a situation the way I expected him to was counterproductive. Something had to change. So I set about managing my expectations. Problem is that I got rid of ALL of my expectations of him. The pendulum swung too far the other way, so much so, that I essentially exempted him from having to meet any of my needs. Without realizing it, I was doing the 180. I was disconnecting from him. 

What we had was not a marriage. I treated him like a casual dating partner. He would go his way, I would go mine, and as nice as it was spending time with him, I could take it or leave it. I began getting my ducks in row for divorce when indifference set in. 

I guess somewhere along the way my husband had his own epiphany. He started making the effort to make me a priority. Speaking my love language. Seeking professional help to learn how to turn his mind off. Being intentional about making time with me. Meeting my needs. 

For my part, it took some time and a whole lot of effort on his part for me to recognize the changes. When I did, I became stuck, for lack of a better word. Do I continue having zero expectations and just hope the changes are permanent? The problem with this option is that is does not allow for vulnerability. I can't let my guard down if I can't rely on him to come through with meeting my needs. Or do I take the chance.....again.....and assume the changes are permanent? I'd have to accept the possibility that I will be hurt when my expectations go unmet. 

So here I am, trying to balance the pendulum between having expectations (that cause me grief when they go unmet) vs. having no expectations (and risk disconnecting entirely from my husband). I think I'm doing a good job so far but when things like our lunch date happen (and honestly that's a minor one compared to some others), I swing the pendulum way over into the self-preservation mode. 

I'm not sure if this is similar to your situation but would like to hear how you handle being 'low man on the totem pole', so to speak.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

@Lila

My issue (maybe similar to you), I can easily disconnect myself from someone. At times this is great, lets me get on with my life and have a "don't give a $hit" attitude. However, and as you can imagine, that it not necessarily the best approach when in a relationship (well, at least if you are hoping for the relationship to last lol). I had never heard the term 180 before I came to TAM, but thinking back and how you describe it I have done a 180 on my W without really knowing it as well. 

I never got to the "ducks in a row" point, but the best way to describe it, I felt at times like I was living with a roommate and not a spouse (so now the question becomes, why even bother?). This was a combination of things from my wife (what we talked about earlier, being unable to "shut her brain off") and things from my side as well where my natural reaction is to disconnect myself.

Like you, I am still trying to find that balance. Things have gotten much better in the past year from what I considered was us hitting close to rock bottom, but I do know it would be very easy for my W and I to revert back, so it can be a struggle at times. I think it is just a matter of choosing your battles. Some you just have to take a deep breathe and brush off. Others (such as the lunch date in your case or some of the examples I mentioned) it is worth making some noise over.

Here is one recently that actually just came up that I brushed off. The biggest challenge my W and I have is finding any alone time. I work nearly 60 hours a week, most days by the time I get home, we get the kids to bed, etc... we get zero alone time (unless you count sleeping). What I have been doing is taking days off here and there when all the kids are in school / daycare (where in the past I would take most my days off when the kids were home). I took off a day last week, very relaxing, we made "use" of the empty house, went out to lunch, etc... a really good day, as good as it gets for us. This past weekend my wife was talking about all the stuff she needs to get done next week (she is a SAHM) and mentions that she felt behind because she didn't get any alone time to do this stuff last week (She talked about how at least one kid was home just about every day last week sick and that I was home the other day). I could understand losing those days with the kids being sick, but as you can imagine I didn't quite appreciate me taking a day off to spend with her being lumped in there. After she said that she did catch herself and try to reword it. I know she didn't mean it as how it came out, but still. Anyway, that was one "battle" that I backed off from, but that did put my guard up a little (trying to keep in check).


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Also, here is a quick thought (I do some of my most deepest thinking before 5am, or maybe it was the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles trailer I just watched that got me thinking lol). Sometimes you just want the extra effort you put in (especially when it is outside your comfort zone) to be matched with the effort from you SO ...


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@ellisredding, why in the world are you up before 5am?! That's just......wrong! 



> I can easily disconnect myself from someone. At times this is great, lets me get on with my life and have a "don't give a $hit" attitude. However, and as you can imagine, that it not necessarily the best approach when in a relationship


Yep. That's just like me but I'll go one further. I find it exhausting sometimes to stay connected especially when my efforts fail to produce the desired outcome. I have to remind myself of my purpose after every dissappointment. It's the only way I can step back and try to see things objectively. 

Btw, you handled your wife's faux past well. I'm not sure I wouldn't have brought it up to my husband.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

Lila said:


> In an effort to spend some much needed quality time together (we've been busy preparing for the holidays), H invited me to a lunch date yesterday. I made a point to wake up about an hour earlier than I normally do to get all dolled up _for him_. Sadly, my efforts went unappreciated. He didn't so much as blink when he saw me get out of the car at the restaurant. No compliments or words of appreciation.
> 
> Now let me preface this by saying that I work in a very casual place of employment. My normal "office" attire is jeans and a nice shirt. I only wear dresses when I plan on meeting with clients. My H knew that I wore the dress, styled the hair, and wore nicer make up specifically for him and this date.


Did you really get "dolled up" for him, or for yourself? Has he expressed a desire to see you dressed up like that? Or is it something you THINK he should like and appreciate.

I know I actually prefer when a woman dresses casual and takes it easy on the make up and jewelry.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Joey2k said:


> Did you really get "dolled up" for him, or for yourself? Has he expressed a desire to see you dressed up like that? Or is it something you THINK he should like and appreciate.
> 
> I know I actually prefer when a woman dresses casual and takes it easy on the make up and jewelry.


Definitely for him.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> @ellisredding, why in the world are you up before 5am?! That's just......wrong!


Actually I was up at 4am  I try to get to the gym by 5am and then head straight in to work. Get home around 7pm or so, rinse and repeat!




Lila said:


> Yep. That's just like me but I'll go one further. I find it exhausting sometimes to stay connected especially when my efforts fail to produce the desired outcome. I have to remind myself of my purpose after every dissappointment. It's the only way I can step back and try to see things objectively.


Trust me, I am actually right there with you. The exhausting part is why it makes it so easy/preferable to just detach.



Lila said:


> Btw, you handled your wife's faux past well. I'm not sure I wouldn't have brought it up to my husband.


Thanks, didn't want to make a mountain out of a molehill (hope I got that phrase right!). Just tough to hear getting grouped with reasons why she couldn't get things done yet other times all I hear is how much she misses me since time together has been at a premium.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Lila said:


> I can say with 100 % assurance that I provide everything he wants of me.


WOW. After reading you latest post I certainly to don't believe that.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I can say with 100 % assurance that I provide everything he wants of me.
> ...


Then let me rephrase.....

I can say with 100% assurance that I provide everything HE'S ACTUALLY TOLD ME he wants of me. 

I'm not a mind reader. I can only meet the needs and address the concerns he tells me about.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Lila said:


> Then let me rephrase.....
> 
> I can say with 100% assurance that I provide everything HE'S ACTUALLY TOLD ME he wants of me.
> 
> I'm not a mind reader. I can only meet the needs and address the concerns he tells me about.



interesting outlook and probably accurate.

The problem with this? he isn't a mind reader either. So when you get dolled up, expecting to be complimented......you hold him to a standard you don't apply to yourself.

yeah....im with the covert contract crowd on this one.


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