# Divorce or Stick it out?



## Dad_of_2 (Aug 7, 2014)

I have been married for 11 years and have 2 kids 10 and 6.

My wife was always happy, upbeat, and a joy to be around up until she got pregnant with our first child. She had some hormone imbalances in pregnancy that required some medication and after the pregnancy she had some REALLY bad post-pardem depression. it was really bad for us, i can't even put into words how bad. That first Christmas after my Son was born I left the house because I couldn't take the screaming anymore. Spent a few hours at the thruway rest stop watching divorced families swapping kids and yelling at each other and it kinda sunk-in that I really didn't want to be like that. 

After a few more years of hell, she started to settle down and mellow out a little. I figured out that stress is what set her off so instead of divorcing, I started to become the primary care giver, took care of the house and basically turned into a single parent. Life got a bit better and we decided to have a 2nd child. well, she decided not to go back to work because daycare was more than what she made. that... was... horrible... she would call me multiple times per day screaming so much that I couldn't even understand anything she was saying. I ended up having to turn off my "work" cell phone much of the time and she would leave 20+ VMs full of this screaming. It got to the point that I was emotionally numb because when I got home no matter what I said or did it was always wrong and I got screamed at for something I did or didn't do and for whatever the kids did or didn't do.

fast forward 5 years and we are now in a new house in the town she wanted, in the size house she wanted, and we are pretty badly in debt. She is now in therapy and has been diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder and on medication. She has a Job now that she hates and works lots of hours "I think to avoid the kids mostly" and is always getting in trouble because of as her boss says. you and your mouth. at least 2 times a month she is freaking out because she thinks they are going to fire her. Last year she was thinking about divorcing me "again i think to get away from the kids". I dropped the kids off at my parents house for a weekend away from them and my Son "9 at the time" freaked out when I left. took my mother almost the whole first day to calm him down. I found out when I pick them up that he didn't think his mom would let me pick him up. on the car ride home I told him. 
Never tell your mother this but I love you more than her. He said I know, she hates me. "not what I meant". I meant if I had to choose between You and Her, I would choose you. 

Now, i'm getting numb and tired. she always wakes me up to talk when she gets home from work, no matter what time it is. midnight, 1am, whenever. "i get up at 6am for work" and she always has some type of drama she has to discuss with me.

With the medication, her really high highs and her really low lows are gone but she is never happy and I have given up trying to make her happy. She has stated several times that she doesn't think she needs the medications. "This is always a trap!" because that means she stopped taking the pills 2 days ago and she is now in a low low. I say you really do need the meds. "screaming, crying, etc..." she starts taking the meds for a while again. 

I keep thinking once both kids are older and self-sufficient she will be better, but the youngest is now 6 and is still a handful.



Not sure what I'm asking for here, I just wanted to put it out there and say Here, this is what i'm dealing with and why I'm thinking of a Divorce. Will my life really be any better if I divorce her? I'll still have to see her and i'm sure she will still call me whenever she gets her lows. if she is on her own, she will have to take care of herself and whatever apartment she gets and pay her own bills, which would stress her out and I know I or the kids will be a target for her stress.

wow, typing this out has just exhausted me...


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Made me feel tired too.
I say give it your best shot.
That way you can sleep at night.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What sort of help have you gotten for yourself in all of this. You describe a life of hell. But I it sounds like you have done very little to get outside help. 

You talk about how awful this has been for you. But you left your children in that hell for years. Your poor son sounds traumatized. I think you need to get your self and your children into counseling asap.

While divorce might be your only way out of this hell, I think you need to find a way to do it so that you get primary custody. Counseling will help to establish a record of what is going on. It will establish the extent to which your wife has traumatized the children. 

In cases like yours I think that it is better for children to go to day care then to be subjected to a stay at home parent who cannot handle yhe task. So what if all of her income goes to child care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad_of_2 (Aug 7, 2014)

EleGirl,

I have not gotten any support. My parents are 200 miles away and the only family we have in town is her brother. My parents are in their 70's and my father can't get around much. I just mentioned to a friend of mine 2 weeks ago that I am thinking about getting a Divorce. up until then I have never mentioned any of this to anyone.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You have done what a lot of people do in your circumstance, sought no outside help. It's time for you to do this. You need someone there in real life who can assess your situation and help you. This is what counseling is for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Who is this friend of yours? What input did the friend give you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

if she will not seek professional help....this WILL continue.

This disruption has almost fractured your M.

Time to get into MC, maybe separate MC, maybe together

I know it would be easy to walk away

but the horror stories you read on TAM......

no telling how many posters on TAM (and their spouse, who rarely 

post here...but it has happened) would like to have, cooled off,

planned ahead and maybe.... worked things out rather than 

playing for two lawyers to have yachts


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

I am sorry for the circumstances and for the struggle, but why would you ever tell your son that you love him "more" than his mother? I know that he was upset but you didn't really give him any more security. Your wife and you are the reason that those kids are here and they don't need that information in their head. Besides, what if those words accidentally spill out of a 6 year olds mouth?

In terms of your marriage, I know that it is tough, I know there isn't much satisfaction at this time, but you need counseling support just as much as your wife does. There are groups especially for the spouses of a bi-polar partner. Such a group could really be beneficial to you. What happens when you discuss these things with your wife at a time when she is coherent? Have you ever had a discussion with her about the need for a healthy environment for your children? There are very rare instances when children's lives are actually benefitted by a divorce. For that reason, putting every effort into getting this figured out is well worth the hard work.

I know where you can speak with a licensed counselor by phone for free just to get some professional insight. It is from a Christian ministry. If you would like more information please feel free to send me a private message. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You have done what a lot of people do in your circumstance, sought no outside help. It's time for you to do this. You need someone there in real life who can assess your situation and help you. This is what counseling is for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad_of_2 (Aug 7, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Who is this friend of yours? What input did the friend give you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


it came up only because his wife told him to ask me if there is something wrong with my wife. They talked on the phone a couple weeks ago and as his wife said, she seemed really intense.

I only told him that she is Bi-polar, things have been rough and I have been thinking about divorce. His only response was "yeah, marriage can be rough sometimes" 



I'm done talking. I don't have the energy to think about this anymore.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dad_of_2 said:


> She is now in therapy and has been diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder and on medication.


DadOf2, perhaps your W does suffer from bipolar-1 disorder. It nonetheless would be prudent to familiarize yourself with the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). One reason I say this is that over a third of bipolar-1 sufferers also have full-blown BPD. That is, it is common for a person having one disorder to also have the other as well. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

Another reason I say this is that BPD is often mistakenly diagnosed as being bipolar -- a result found in a number of studies. A 2008 study at Brown Univ. Medical School, for example, concludes that "_one quarter of the patients over-diagnosed with bipolar disorder met DSM-IV criteria for borderline personality disorder." _That study concludes:"We hypothesize that in patients with mood instability, physicians are inclined to diagnose a potentially medication-responsive disorder such as bipolar disorder rather than a disorder such as borderline personality disorder that is less medication-responsive.” See BPDers Over Diagnosed with Bipolar.​I therefore suggest you read about BPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. If they do, I would suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and the kids are dealing with. 

An easy place to start reading about BPD red flags is my description of the differences I've seen between the behaviors typical of bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and those typical of BPDers (e.g., my exW) at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences. I also describe the BPD warning signs in greater detail at my post in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, DadOf2.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

This sounds like hell. For the sake of your children, GET OUT. Your kids dont deserve to live like this. Neither do you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> This sounds like hell. For the sake of your children, GET OUT. Your kids dont deserve to live like this. Neither do you.


The problem is that if he goes about getting out the wrong way, she could end up with the children most of the time. He needs to do this very smart.


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## Dad_of_2 (Aug 7, 2014)

UpTown

I looked at your links and she does not seem to fit easily into either BiPolar or BPD.

*One difference is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. A bipolar-1 sufferer swings between mania and depression and a bipolar-2 sufferer swings between depression and normality (with very little or no mania). In contrast, a BPDer flips back and forth between loving you and devaluing you.*

she has Mania and depression.


*A second difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. *

Her mood changes can be quite frequent, even within the same day. As stated earlier, it seems that Stress triggers her extreme anger "low lows" and whenever she has her Mania "high highs" it's almost always followed by a low low after a couple hours.


*A third difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours).*

Rages typically only last a few hours but can be multiple times a day so not sure if that counts either way.


*A fourth difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action.*

her low lows typically take some time to build up and I can usually expect it but the high highs come out of no where quickly and go away just as quickly.


*A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.*

The medication that she is taking "when she takes it" is preventing the extremes. it's something new though, no generic and it's crazy expensive which is one reason she doesn't want to take it. "found it: Brintellix 20mg"


*A sixth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This seems consistent with your description of very hateful, spiteful behavior (e.g., having you thrown into jail for six months on a bogus charge).*

She is not mean in her Manic phase, she is very happy and EXTREMELY TALKATIVE. she rambles on about everything/anything not making sense sometimes. quickly jumping from one subject to another and whoever she is talking to is usually lost with a deer in the headlights look.


*A seventh difference is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger.*

I don't know if it's anger that she is filled with or fear, sadness but yes it's a sudden release.


*An eight difference is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.
BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.*

No problem with intimacy, she will sometimes initiate.
When she is complaining about work or the kids she usually wants to snuggle with me.


*A ninth difference is that the thinking and behavior of a BPDer includes more mental departures from reality (called "dissociation") wherein "feelings create facts." That is, BPDers typically do not intellectually challenge their intense feelings. Instead, they accept them as accurately reflecting your intentions and motivations. In contrast, bipolar disorder tends to be more neurotic in that the mood swings tend to be based more on extreme exaggerations of fact, not the creation of "fact" out of thin air based solely on feelings. *

She does the extreme exaggerations of fact, not creation of fact.


*A tenth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. Sadly, this lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when people cannot trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will.*

She seems to be able to trust people.


*An eleventh difference is that, whereas BPDers are always convinced they are "The Victim," bipolar sufferers usually have a much stronger self image. BPDers therefore have a strong need to validate that false self image by blaming every misfortune on the spouse.*

She has a very low self image and always thinks she is the victim. why does everything always happen to her. one of her favorite sayings is "They have no idea what i'm dealing with"


*Finally, a twelfth difference is that, although bipolar sufferers are emotionally unstable, they generally are not immature or childlike. BPDers, in contrast, are so immature that their emotional development typically is frozen at about age four. This is why they have a very fragile self image and have difficulty controlling their emotions.*

she does not seem immature, just unstable.


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## Dad_of_2 (Aug 7, 2014)

Zanne said:


> You DO have options. You need to believe that, because right now you are sounding like a victim and your last comment was a little passive aggressive. Take a break if you need to, but people here do want to help.


I did need a break. All of this was getting me emotional and having me re-live all of this. I'm not sure how others deal with this stuff but for me, the only way I can keep going and try to keep the kids and everything else going is to have an emotional disconnect. at times i feel like a robot, not reacting to any of the screaming or yelling, or anything. Just doing what needs to be done.

sounds sad when i write that out, but it is what it is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you asked her to just go off by herself when she wants to scream and yell? That way she can get it out of her system. Then come back and talk when she's calmed down?

She need coping skills. I think you said that she is in therapy. Is this right? Could you go with her and talk to her therapist/counselor, describe how she handles things and ask them to teach her coping skills?

She could go off to another room and beat on pillows or go work out... even if it's along walk.


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## Dad_of_2 (Aug 7, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> She need coping skills. I think you said that she is in therapy. Is this right? Could you go with her and talk to her therapist/counselor, describe how she handles things and ask them to teach her coping skills?


She actually mentioned to me that her counselor and the nurse at her work said she needs to work on her coping skills. So, I suppose that means her counselor is working with her on this.

I found a local child and family support group for people dealing with a family member with emotional, behavioral, or mental health challenge. it's at night when she is working. I need to call to see if I can bring the kids, i should probably go alone first. Hopefully my BIL can watch the kids that night and not tell her what i'm doing.

discussing this stuff with her, I always have such a lump in the pit of my stomach thinking no matter what I say it will go badly for me. I absolutely dread the though of going with her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm glad you found the group. Hope it works out.


I was married to a guy whose behavior was similar to your wife's. He's never been diagnosed BP or anything else, but he definitely had a problem.

What I finally learned is that I could not allow any encounter between us escalate to the screaming and yelling. 

So I picked a time when things were calm and I told him that it had to stop. I told him that when I could tell that things were going to explode I would use the safe word "STOP" and then I would walk away and go off somewhere. It was his job to calm himself down. He got to the point where he would go for a walk or a bike ride. It worked wonders.

You might want to try this.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dad_of_2 said:


> UpTown, I looked at your links and she does not seem to fit easily into either BiPolar or BPD.


DadOf2, you seem to be describing the warning signs for ultra-ultra rapid cycling bipolar (which is very uncommon). "Rapid cycling" is 4 times a year and you're seeing cycling several times a day. I've seen that in my foster son many times but only when he is slipping in or out of a psychotic episode, not when he is free of psychosis.

As I said, about 36% of bipolar sufferers also have full blown BPD. Yet, if that were true for your W, you should also be seeing a lack of trust, strong fear of abandonment, a push-away behavior following intimacy, and fragile self image -- none of which you are mentioning.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

she needs to want to get help, she needs to realize what she is 

putting you through. sweet talking and rugsweeping only add fuel

to the fire. admit you care, support her but she must get help now.

imagine you live with these episodes for 20 years

how do you see yourself in 2034?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If you have the nerve for it and can explain to the kids what's going on, fight back with the same methods she uses and then some. 

Worked quite well for curbing my wife's BPD acting up... Requires serious self control and only worked in one case so...

If she's wearing you down and you do the same and more you will wear her down faster.


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