# Tell or Not Tell the BS?



## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

There are other threads that relate to the subject line. Those WS and BS were either friends or family members.

My question is, what about cheating in the workplace? Do the same rules apply, or considering the circumstances, is there another set of rules.

What's your opinion?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Same rules apply.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

No free pass for workplace cheating. The BS has a right to know. You tell
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I missed understood, I think that anyone who is being cheated on would like to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

workindad said:


> No free pass for workplace cheating. The BS has a right to know. You tell
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You would be willing to risk losing your job by exposing someone?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

BradWesley said:


> You would be willing to risk losing your job by exposing someone?


Well I'm a manager. If one of my employees was cheating with another employee of the company I'd be pissed. For two reasons: 


the drama and distraction. No doubt they're not doing their job. I sure wouldn't trust them on a business trip.
The safety factor. I don't want a angry BS bringing a gun in and shooting people. That is the #1 cause of workplace violence.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Well I'm a manager. If one of my employees was cheating with another employee of the company I'd be pissed. For two reasons:
> 
> 
> the drama and distraction. No doubt they're not doing their job. I sure wouldn't trust them on a business trip.
> The safety factor. I don't want a angry BS bringing a gun in and shooting people. That is the #1 cause of workplace violence.


Agree, its a field day for HR, company liability.
Those things need to be nipped.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> You would be willing to risk losing your job by exposing someone?


There are ways to do in anonymously. Even mailing a typed letter from a different zip code with no return address.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

mablenc said:


> Agree, its a field day for HR, company liability.
> Those things need to be nipped.


Grrr, HR is a sore subject for me though. I work at a location with 40 employees. Our assigned HR manager is 2,700 miles away, and has over 500 employees to deal with. We really are on our own... pretty stupid of the company as far as I'm concerned.

But I'd nip in the bud on my own.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Agree, its a field day for HR, company liability.
> Those things need to be nipped.


How is it a liability for the Company?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

BradWesley said:


> How is it a liability for the Company?


Well for one a pissed off BS shooting up the place...


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

When my WH got caught with his AP her BS was ready to blow up their place of employment. I wanted to cause bodily harm to the hag but I waited a bit til I was calmer! 

It was about a year later and the AP got pushed out of her job, they made it as hard as possible so that she would go somewhere else, and she did. Companies dont want that kind of reputation or drama at the work place.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Well I'm a manager. If one of my employees was cheating with another employee of the company I'd be pissed. For two reasons:
> 
> 
> the drama and distraction. No doubt they're not doing their job. I sure wouldn't trust them on a business trip.
> The safety factor. I don't want a angry BS bringing a gun in and shooting people. That is the #1 cause of workplace violence.


You are concerned about a business trip? As long as they do what the company expects of them, what they do on their personal time is their business. I may not like it, but it is what it is.

Companies are not part of the morality police


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> There are other threads that relate to the subject line. Those WS and BS were either friends or family members.
> 
> My question is, what about cheating in the workplace? Do the same rules apply, or considering the circumstances, is there another set of rules.
> 
> What's your opinion?


Does not matter when where who. There is an affair the BS must be told.

So the "rules" apply when the affair is with a co worker.

Also I hope you did not forget the NC rule. That the AP's can no longer work for the same company after the affair. The WS or the AP will have to lose their job.

As to your remark that businesses do not care about work place affairs. Hate to disappoint you that some businesses will terminate co workers that had an affair.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Cheating is cheating. 

Workplace cheating hits me personally, but if I put that aside, I still put it all in the same category. 

If someone cheats because they are "ladder climbing," it puts other people, who are working hard to support their families and make a better life for them, at a disadvantage. It's unfair, as well as unethical. I know life isn't fair, but this sordid stuff affects innocent peoples' families. 

I could say more, but I know my personal pain makes it difficult to be any more objective than that.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> You would be willing to risk losing your job by exposing someone?


Can not get into trouble for telling the truth. Wrongful termination law suit.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> You are concerned about a business trip? As long as they do what the company expects of them, what they do on their personal time is their business. I may not like it, but it is what it is.
> 
> Companies are not part of the morality police


Good Lord man, no, the company isn't part of the morality police. But if you are putting two people together on a trip away from home, to work closely together, regardless of whether the work gets done or not (of course it will be done on paper, but will the real work be done?), then the company is fostering an environment ripe for cheating. 

Trust me on this, it happens all the time. There's no way to stop two people from getting it on if that's how they're wired, but to put people in these situations is also rather reckless, in my opinion. 

OK really this time I'll stop posting on this topic. WW's A was a workplace A.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> How is it a liability for the Company?


Sometimes people claim sexual harassment when caught, if employees see them in any risky scenario they can file a sexual harassment charge. If one reports to another then, all hell breaks lose with discrimination charges and quid pro quo. Company and time resources spent on affairs. You are paid to work not to cheat. The way it reflects on the company. The drama it can bring to work. Plus we had an employee killed because boyfriend thought she was cheating. After he shot her he was on his way find the OM putting everyone at work at risk. The police caught him on his way. So saftey. There's more those are just what comes to mind right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

theroad said:


> Can not get into trouble for telling the truth. Wrongful termination law suit.


They won't be terminated for that reason. Over time they will be set up to fail. It stinks but happens all the time


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> They won't be terminated for that reason. Over time they will be set up to fail. It stinks but happens all the time


Not really, unless you called out the owner. Most companies are above that. Plus document, even if its after it is retaliation and you can still make a case. Like I said before, you can do it anonymously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

LetDownNTX said:


> When my WH got caught with his AP her BS was ready to blow up their place of employment. I wanted to cause bodily harm to the hag but I waited a bit til I was calmer!
> 
> It was about a year later and the AP got pushed out of her job, they made it as hard as possible so that she would go somewhere else, and she did. Companies dont want that kind of reputation or drama at the work place.


Yeah we had a guys face burned with hot coffee when his wife came in to confront him and poured it on his face. We did change the coffee machines to were it was not scorching hot :eyeroll: like that was the main problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Yeah we had a guys face burned with hot coffee when his wife came in to confront him and poured it on his face. We did change the coffee machines to were it was not scorching hot :eyeroll: like that was the main problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


People "go postal" in the workplace for many reasons. Cheating just happens to be one of them


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

mablenc said:


> Yeah we had a guys face burned with hot coffee when his wife came in to confront him and poured it on his face. We did change the coffee machines to were it was not scorching hot :eyeroll: like that was the main problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


HAHA, definitely the coffees fault! Maybe she should have thrown it at his pants....caused injury to the real problem!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> People "go postal" in the workplace for many reasons. Cheating just happens to be one of them


I would say, at least in my experience its on the top of the list. 

It's your choice to out them or not. You wanted opinions, these are mine.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> People "go postal" in the workplace for many reasons. Cheating just happens to be one of them


Curious to know, what side of the fence are you on?


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

LetDownNTX said:


> Curious to know, what side of the fence are you on?


I'm glad you asked.

I am a senior level executive for a very large private Company.

I am also a BS. 
,
Many of the things I've mentioned, i don't personally agree with. I believe as a Company, we could do better. I've had many meetings with our VP of HR, and asked her if she has ever seen a Company employee handbook that ever mentioned adultery, infidelity or cheating. She said other than a couple of non-profit religious type groups, no. And keep in mind that she belongs to a few HR business organizations, that swap info, including handbooks.

In short, Companies do not condone nor condemn infidelity. The buzz word used is - INDIFFERENCE!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> I'm glad you asked.
> 
> I am a senior level executive for a very large private Company.
> 
> ...


That makes sense. Most of the time people dont care unless they have a dog in the fight and then it matters. Honestly I think that although companies cant control who does what they should not condone it. 
I think the morals in this country have slipped away slowly but surely and many businesses just dont care like they should. People should be held accountable for their actions! To me it falls along the lines of prayer in school. Lets take it out because someone might be offended. UGH!


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

LetDownNTX said:


> That makes sense. Most of the time people dont care unless they have a dog in the fight and then it matters. Honestly I think that although companies cant control who does what they should not condone it.
> I think the morals in this country have slipped away slowly but surely and many businesses just dont care like they should. People should be held accountable for their actions! To me it falls along the lines of prayer in school. Lets take it out because someone might be offended. UGH!


A number of the executives are married with children, some with grandchildren, a beautiful wife, picture perfect family and..............................a few with a mistress living in a beautiful condo provided by them.

That speaks volumes.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

theroad said:


> Can not get into trouble for telling the truth. Wrongful termination law suit.


You probably wouldn't be able to win that lawsuit. Wrongful termination is for firing people based on race, gender, religion, whistle-blowing or other protected categories.


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> HAHA, definitely the coffees fault! Maybe she should have thrown it at his pants....caused injury to the real problem!


...And THAT's why I love you so much, TX! Too bad one can only use the "like" button once.
:toast:


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> You are concerned about a business trip? As long as they do what the company expects of them, what they do on their personal time is their business. I may not like it, but it is what it is.
> 
> Companies are not part of the morality police


If they aren't, they should be. Forgive the tired cliché but no one is an island, and their personal actions aren't committed in a vacuum divorced from their place of work. A person that lacks the integrity to honor vows of fidelity is a person that certainly lacks the integrity to be trusted to discharge their position faithfully and well because if they are willing to cause such hurt to someone they profess to love, above all others, do you think they would have any compunctions about workplace malfeasance beyond the immediate threat of legal action?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

BradWesley said:


> My question is, what about cheating in the workplace? Do the same rules apply, or considering the circumstances, is there another set of rules.


The rules are the same but the circumstances are different. For example, there was a male coworker in one office I worked in who was supposedly in an affair with a woman who was in an open marriage. All of this was rumor mill info, and I did not know either person as any more than the very occasional work contact.

Exposing to the wife is problematic because someone like me had no first hand or even second hand information. I did not see anything and I did not know anything. The source of the rumor was unknown. So this could be a clever ruse to derail the guy's career, or it could be jilted woman trying to get revenge at him. Or maybe someone wanted to get back at his wife. Or maybe it was a plot against the female affair partner.

Now if it was a close colleague of mine who I knew for certain was in an affair then the rules are the same. I would feel an obligation to tell the spouse somehow. Though there are some political or professional considerations which may affect how the exposure should be handled.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

Thor said:


> The rules are the same but the circumstances are different. For example, there was a male coworker in one office I worked in who was supposedly in an affair with a woman who was in an open marriage. All of this was rumor mill info, and I did not know either person as any more than the very occasional work contact.
> 
> Exposing to the wife is problematic because someone like me had no first hand or even second hand information. I did not see anything and I did not know anything. The source of the rumor was unknown. So this could be a clever ruse to derail the guy's career, or it could be jilted woman trying to get revenge at him. Or maybe someone wanted to get back at his wife. Or maybe it was a plot against the female affair partner.
> 
> Now if it was a close colleague of mine who I knew for certain was in an affair then the rules are the same. I would feel an obligation to tell the spouse somehow. Though there are some political or professional considerations which may affect how the exposure should be handled.


Spot on post! There are games being played all the time. Reacting to any of them base on rumor, and you could end up, with a minimum egg on your face, and at worst, in some real deep trouble.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> Spot on post! There are games being played all the time. Reacting to any of them base on rumor, and you could end up, with a minimum egg on your face, and at worst, in some real deep trouble.


Maybe so. But do you really want to be part of a company whose culture turns a blind eye to that kind of behavior? I can tell you that it isn't tolerated in mine. The first hint of that kind of behavior, even in unattached adults, is grounds for immediate suspension, and termination if it continues.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> Maybe so. But do you really want to be part of a company whose culture turns a blind eye to that kind of behavior? I can tell you that it isn't tolerated in mine. The first hint of that kind of behavior, even in unattached adults, is grounds for immediate suspension, and termination if it continues.


Your company actually terminates employees due to infidelity? They use that as the stated reason?

Is this company in the u.s.?


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> Your company actually terminates employees due to infidelity? They use that as the stated reason?
> 
> Is this company in the u.s.?


Not just infidelity, any romantic engagement between members of the company, regardless.

And yes, it's in the US.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> Not just infidelity, any romantic engagement between members of the company, regardless.
> 
> And yes, it's in the US.


Just two questions. How many employees work for the company, and is it affiliated with any religious institution?


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> There are other threads that relate to the subject line. Those WS and BS were either friends or family members.
> 
> My question is, what about cheating in the workplace? Do the same rules apply, or considering the circumstances, is there another set of rules.
> 
> What's your opinion?


My WS had an affair with a coworker who had a reputation for lying to get out of bad situations. She had previously filed a sexual harassment claim against another male coworker she had willingly fooled around with. At the time I figured whether WS and I chose to reconcile or divorce, I needed him to have an income instead of potentially getting fired because of a false claim. Whether we stayed together or not (we have so far), we have bills and a house to maintain. I knew his then boss and I told her, she took care of it from there. I was also tipped off to the affair by one of their coworkers, and will always appreciate the fact they stepped forward even though by then I was already onto what was going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> How is it a liability for the Company?


 For one, Lawsuits. These lawsuits can be regarding favoritism, sexual predatory practices, sexual harassment charges, violation of workplace policies and rules, etc. 

All of these types of lawsuits can be brought about by a third party that doesn't have to be a party directly involved just to have witnessed the indiscretion in some form or be affected by it. When these types of lawsuits become public the company can get a bad name and thus hurt their standing within the community and their brand recognition (this is why lots of major companies have policies against work place fraternization, doesn't stop it but curtails it some). The lawsuits can be pursued directly against the company or through third parties such as the EEOC and other state/ federal agencies. IF they don't act on the complaints then it can make them a party to the damages if the lawsuits are pursued, as well as demeaning the morale of the company and workers. In my state where adultery is illegal, it can ,make them responsible for damages if they are informed of the impropriety and take no actions. 

Ultimately the employer is responsible for the actions of their employees while on the clock (for salaried employees that is technically all the time) and of the clock if it directly affects their job and job performance/ promotions/ etc, such is the reason that many have drug policies.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

TryingToRecover said:


> My WS had an affair with a coworker who had a reputation for lying to get out of bad situations. She had previously filed a sexual harassment claim against another male coworker she had willingly fooled around with. At the time I figured whether WS and I chose to reconcile or divorce, I needed him to have an income instead of potentially getting fired because of a false claim. Whether we stayed together or not (we have so far), we have bills and a house to maintain. I knew his then boss and I told her, she took care of it from there. I was also tipped off to the affair by one of their coworkers, and will always appreciate the fact they stepped forward even though by then I was already onto what was going on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry that happened to you. Personally I don't like some of what I see going on in the workplace. However, when items like these are addressed in executive meetings, corporate attorneys always recommend the path of least resistance, the safe course - Indifference


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> Not just infidelity, any romantic engagement between members of the company, regardless.
> 
> And yes, it's in the US.


 I don't work and have never worked for them (but have had several friends and family members that have), but Wal-Mart has such policies in place. I have known people that dated and were found out and either one or both were either terminated or told to quit due to company policy violations. One couple I personally know, dated in private, he got promoted, they got married and were told that one would have to resign for violating company policy and the other was removed from the district.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> I'm sorry that happened to you. Personally I don't like some of what I see going on in the workplace. However, when items like these are addressed in executive meetings, corporate attorneys always recommend the path of least resistance, the safe course - Indifference


Access to knowledge of the affair...I had an advantage in that my WS, his xOW, and me all work for the same, very large employer (basically) and it isn't a private company. The part they work for and the part I work for are not closely correlated but there is at least basic information sharing and I know how things could have gone down, since we all have the same policies, procedures, ahem....union representation, and the same working knowledge of how these things generally turn out. xOW managed to unravel some other idiot's career when things went south (when his wife told her to take a hike and xOW was p'od that affair ended) that I made sure it wouldn't happen in my world. I did it more to help my family rather than specifically my WS. Have two kids in college, a house, etc, didn't need the added hassle of a sexual harassment claim/possible job loss while trying to figure out what to do post affair. 

The xOW/office bicycle presently is having another male coworker investigated but she has left my WS completely alone. She knows I have proof of what was going on and shared that with their boss. She knows there's no false claim she can try to weasel in there sideways, at least not in his case. Nicely put, my WS is an idiot for getting involved with anyone else but someone with a reputation for these false claims....ugh. I suppose while they were both still in fantasy land he likely thought it would never happen to him, or that everyone was wrong about her. LOL :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> Just two questions. How many employees work for the company, and is it affiliated with any religious institution?


I have no idea what the total employment figures are at all locations, but the head office has about 350 employees. And no, definitely not a religious institution. It's a research firm.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

BradWesley said:


> A number of the executives are married with children, some with grandchildren, a beautiful wife, picture perfect family and..............................a few with a mistress living in a beautiful condo provided by them.
> 
> That speaks volumes.


I thought you were asking about BOTH cheaters being employed by the same company.

Executives having mistresses is another situation.

BTW - I know of several companies that have no fraternization rules. Especially when it comes to Manager/employee situations.


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