# husband distressed by my past?!



## Emma24

Hi 

My married life is undergoing a lot of problems currently because of an incident from my past, before I got into a relationship with my then-boyfriend-now-husb and. 
My husband and I have an age difference of 9 years. But he is a very nice guy, very good looking, helping, understanding and affectionate and I love him a lot. 

But since a month, he has been acting horribly with me. Someone, sent him photos of me kissing a guy I used to know and since then he has been upset. Even my husband knew that guy because he was in our frien circle. 

The thing is, before I got into my relationship with my now husband, this guy friend of ours had entered our lives. 
He was a extremely handsome and a very mysterious man and I admit we had a strange connection since the day I met him. 
Whenever I would meet him, I would go lost into his eyes and would find myself staring at him , even forgetting what I had to say to him. 
It was he, who would start the conversation, but even he suffered from the same thing I used to suffer from. 
Our eyes would meet whenever we were around. 

But he had openly declared that he was not interested in marriage or relationships and his only goal was to further his career without any distractions. 

He was here for a short time, maybe 1 year and just a week before he had to leave, he told me he wanted to take back some memories of mine, because he knew I liked him but never said it. 

I was so insanely attracted to him and his eyes (i still remember he had really alluring light brown eyes) that I agreed to all his demands. He wanted to stay with me for a week and we did, mostly having sex most of the time. 
He never let me out of his sight and for a week, I stayed in with him at his house. The day he was leaving, he kissed me many times and left. 

He never appeared again. 

I forgot about it and got into a relationship with my boyfriend whom I always liked and I knew he liked me too(now my husband) 
We got married a year later. 

Someone knew about my past experience and they sent those photos to my husband and I was forced to reveal everything about my past which infuriated my husband. 

I am a submissive wife so I listened to all he had to say. My only goal is to keep him happy and feel loved. 
But he now gives me the silent treatment and when we get into fights, he accuses me saying how many men I have slept with and how many I have cheated on him. 

I go to bed crying every single night. I tried my best to help him get over it but he is still upset. 
He is emotional and jealous and I am suffering from it. 

Last week I found out I was pregnant and he accused me again that I am not as innocent as I seem and whose baby am I carrying. 

It was too painful for me to hear. 

I cannot leave him , but what do I do to help him get over my past? 

Please help me


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## Roselyn

Emma24 said:


> Hi
> Someone knew about my past experience and they sent those photos to my husband and I was forced to reveal everything about my past which infuriated my husband.


What type of photos are these? Are they nude photos or social ones? How old are you and your husband? How long have you been married?

You have withhold critical information from your husband with regards to your romantic fling with the man in the photos. Your husband has a different image of who you are. He had a different picture of his ideal wife. Your past deeply disturbs him as you have not revealed this part of you. This is all new to him.


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## batsociety

Wait, so just to clarify: You were friends with your husband before you got together, and then this dude rocked up and you guys had a sort-of-not-really-but-almost fling, then he disappeared, you got with your husband and now he's finding out that you had this little thing with this guy and he's upset?

...Why exactly is he upset? Just because you didn't tell him you had this semi-thing with this friend? Or is there something else here, like he thought you were coming to him... "untainted", for lack of a better term (just tying that made me cringe), and the fact that you even kissed someone else shattered his view of you?

Who exactly sent him these pictures and _why_?


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## jdawg2015

Who sent the picture and why? Seems odd to come out now.

Some kind of agenda going on as the backstory to this.

This obviously is a real pinch to your husband so the more caring and understanding the better However I bet you argue over this into the future. Hard one to just erase from his retinas.


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## Zouz

Dear ,

Sorry to hear what you are going through .

before We are able to assist you;please answer the following questions :

-was meeting with this guy and having sex with him, during your relationship with your boyfriend , who is now your husband?

-Did you and your husband decalre your pasts to each other before marriage ? was he interrested in knowing your previous experiences and you hided this one on him ?


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## D.H Mosquito

If nude pics etc i can see why he would be unsettled but from just the brief stuff you posted you are either missing out huge chunks of info or someone is filling his head with stuff for their own ends and now the icing on the cake the pics, is there another female in your social group that wants him or maybe your former lover trying to break you up and take over where he left off?
We all have a past to some degree and that's where it should stay, book you and your husband a marriage guidance session and take it from there


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## Emma24

batsociety said:


> Wait, so just to clarify: You were friends with your husband before you got together, and then this dude rocked up and you guys had a sort-of-not-really-but-almost fling, then he disappeared, you got with your husband and now he's finding out that you had this little thing with this guy and he's upset?
> 
> ...Why exactly is he upset? Just because you didn't tell him you had this semi-thing with this friend? Or is there something else here, like he thought you were coming to him... "untainted", for lack of a better term (just tying that made me cringe), and the fact that you even kissed someone else shattered his view of you?
> 
> Who exactly sent him these pictures and _why_?


Yes I was friends with my husband before we got together 

Even I don't know who took the photos and who sent him now.


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## Emma24

Zouz said:


> Dear ,
> 
> Sorry to hear what you are going through .
> 
> before We are able to assist you;please answer the following questions :
> 
> -was meeting with this guy and having sex with him, during your relationship with your boyfriend , who is now your husband?
> 
> -Did you and your husband decalre your pasts to each other before marriage ? was he interrested in knowing your previous experiences and you hided this one on him ?


I was not in a relationship with my now husband when had the fling, we were friends that time.

My husband did tell me about his past and I was fine with it. He never really asked me so I never told him about mine.


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## Emma24

Roselyn said:


> What type of photos are these? Are they nude photos or social ones? How old are you and your husband? How long have you been married?
> 
> You have withhold critical information from your husband with regards to your romantic fling with the man in the photos. Your husband has a different image of who you are. He had a different picture of his ideal wife. Your past deeply disturbs him as you have not revealed this part of you. This is all new to him.


They are not nude photos , I never allowed that guy to take any nude photos of mine .


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## Emma24

D.H Mosquito said:


> If nude pics etc i can see why he would be unsettled but from just the brief stuff you posted you are either missing out huge chunks of info or someone is filling his head with stuff for their own ends and now the icing on the cake the pics, is there another female in your social group that wants him or maybe your former lover trying to break you up and take over where he left off?
> We all have a past to some degree and that's where it should stay, book you and your husband a marriage guidance session and take it from there


He does not have much interactions with females but is it possible that my former lover is doing all this?


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## SecondTime'Round

Emma24 said:


> He does not have much interactions with females but is it possible that my former lover is doing all this?


Why? What would his motivation be? Are you guys still in touch with him? Does he even live in the same country as you?


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## Cooper

My guess is your husband wants to think you are a "good girl", and now some salacious photos from your past show up for some strange reason. Your husband is #1 confused at why they were sent to him and wonders if they are truly from your past or more recent and #2 you aren't the proper perfect woman he wants you to be. He probably knew you had a past but having photos shoved in his face of your week of hungry sex maybe diminished you in his eyes.

I'm not saying he's right to feel that way, just that it's probably a shock to him and now all his thoughts and emotions are churning. All you can do is try to talk it thru and reassure him that was the past and he is the present.


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## Zouz

Emma , 
we are not to point fingers ; having it before the relationship got serious with your hub means that you haven't chaeted on him ; yet i believe your husband is having expectations because he assumed things about your past .


It seems that this is the first time you and your husband go through a real issue since marriage ; I mean you have expectations and an image on you past + current ; now his expectations are deceived .

he doesn't have the right to make abig issue out of it ; because you haven't cheated on him ;but he is deceived maybe because you are not meeting his expectations .

One day you will have a different issue with him regarding some other expectation, it could be financial , emotional , or anything ; he could assume that you contribute one day in something financially or emotionally , yet get decieved later ; he could love Hot Sausages and get deceived when the night he eats from it you get disturbed when he kisses you ; briefly you still don't know each other .
*
I believe the Best to do ; is that you invite your Husband to a nice talk ; and discuss with him not only this issue but rather discuss with him that putting expectations that could be decieved has to be cleared ahead ;be smart in raising the concept ; and show your sympathy that if you knew that your history is important to him you would have told him ; Lesson learned : when he tells you about a major issue reciprocate and ask him if he wants to know your side ...*


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## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> I was not in a relationship with my now husband when had the fling, we were friends that time.
> 
> My husband did tell me about his past and I was fine with it. *He never really asked me so I never told him about mine.*


Dumb on his part to not ask you about your past while you two were courting. You should learn as much about the person you are going to marry that you can in order to make an informed decision.

So you never divulged your past. Did you misrepresent your past though? Did you let him assume that your past was different than it really was based by keeping quiet during conversations where he may have assumed that you were a certain way? Did you lie by omission? That's important to know if you want to work through this.


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## Plan 9 from OS

> I was so insanely attracted to him and his eyes (i still remember he had really alluring light brown eyes) that *I agreed to all his demands.* He wanted to stay with me for a week and we did, mostly having sex most of the time.
> He never let me out of his sight and for a week, I stayed in with him at his house. The day he was leaving, he kissed me many times and left.


You mentioned that you agreed to all this guy's demands. Does that mean that you made memories with him doing certain sex acts that you refused to your husband? 

Was there ever a time in your relationship with your H that you two shut yourselves away from everyone had had sex most of the time together? 

Bottom line is if you did things with or gave time to this man that you did not do for your husband, that is a big problem too.


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## alexm

Ah, this again. Always an interesting discussion..

First, you did nothing wrong, and I think you know this. Your husband may be acting like you did, however, and that's the problem. It's HIS problem.

Now, that's not to say he's completely out of bounds about his feelings. What he's doing wrong is putting his negativity on you, where he should be keeping it to himself.

I empathize with your husband, to a degree, and I DO see how it bothers him.

The issue, to him, is that the three of you knew each other at one point. I don't mean you all hung out together and were friends (maybe you were) just that he knows who he is. This is always a difficult thing to reconcile - that your wife/husband had a "thing" with somebody you both know. Most people prefer to not know their partners exes.

He also likely knows that this guy wasn't looking for a relationship/marriage, that he was focused on work only, and therefore any woman he was with (which included you) would have known that, and therefore it would have been solely based around sex.

So the unfortunate outcome of this, is that he knows the woman who is now his wife had a fling, with somebody he knows/knew, and that, more importantly, his wife entered into a relationship that was solely based on attraction and sex and that had no future.

Add to that the fact that he was around at that time, and VERY LIKELY had some interest in you, even if he didn't actually show it.

And last, as he likely knew that this guy was not in it for the long haul (work was more important, had to move, etc.) he's left wondering that, if that wasn't the case with this guy, would you have ended up with him, instead of himself?

His feelings could be further exacerbated by his memories of how you reacted when this fling ended, if he was around to see them/hear about them. If you were genuinely sad that this guy moved away and you were in the dumps for a little while, then to him, he's left wondering if he's "second fiddle", and if you would have even started to date him if the guy hadn't been so focused on his career.

And to even FURTHER his paranoia, it's likely crossed his mind what will happen if and when this guy shows back up again. It's entirely possible (and maybe even likely) that he will contact you at some point in the future, even just to say hello and catch up.

I don't think there's any doubt that you love your husband and that he has a real concern to be worried, however, your description of this guy is rather glowing. It's clear there was an intense physical attraction to him - which is okay, of course - but it IS somewhat dangerous to your marriage, should he ever pop up again. Especially when you see your husband day in, day out, the good and the bad.

I imagine my wife, and everybody's wife (or husband) has had a fling or a relationship with somebody they had an intense physical or sexual connection to, and that they will always fondly remember this person and the intensity of the relationship, or fling, or whatever. The people we marry are often a solid combination of everything we want, a jack-of-all-trades, whereas guys like this one are not - they are only one thing (for example, hot). This guy wouldn't commit to you, yet you still had a fling anyway (which is okay), but it was clearly only based around one thing.

Just remember, if and when this guy pops up again, ignore, ignore, ignore. Even if he's married, it doesn't matter. He will always be perceived as a threat to your husband, rightly or wrongly, and he has no place in your life any more for this sole reason.

*ETA, thinking about it further, if this guy does show up again in the future (married or not) he IS a threat. Reason being - if two people have a relationship, a fling, or even a one night stand with somebody else, and it ends for any number of reasons, then it's over. You were not friends, you were relationship/sex partners. There's really no going back to "friends" after that, especially when one or both people are married. If either of you look up the other sometime down the road, that means that one person is on the other persons mind for some reason.

To me, there's really only one reason, and it may not always be overt, but it exists. I mean, we all have memories of some person we had an intense attraction to that isn't our current partner. I do. I'm sure your husband does, too. But they're gone now, and they're no longer a part of our lives - unless somewhere in the back of our minds we want them to be.

It's one thing to do this with old friends we haven't seen in 20 years, especially on Facebook, but it's another thing entirely to do this with old relationships, casual or otherwise.

There's never any good from two people who once had a relationship "catching up", unless you're both single. Because deep down, that's the real reason one person contacts the other. They once had something, so they're familiar with it, and maybe even miss it. And hey, "if she's single too, maybe we can reconnect. I'm going to see how she's doing!". There truly is no other reason for it.

So, again, best thing to do is that if and when he ever contacts you again, no matter what you think his reasons are, do not engage him in any way, as long as you are married. Not even a "sorry, I'm married" response. If he sends you an email or looks you up on Facebook, simply ignore.


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## 2ntnuf

I have to agree with alexm for the most part. I think part of it is the fact that your husband may feel like a rebound and be wondering if you will someday decide he is just that. Also, I think he may believe, if you were truly over this guy, and I don't think you are, you would talk about him, but of course withhold details that aren't necessary and protect your safety. Your husband may think you will meet up with this guy if he is ever in town, since you didn't talk about him and seem like you aren't quite over him. It's your business and you don't have to tell your husband about anyone you've been with before him, just to make that clear. You don't have to do anything with your husband that you don't want to do, and you don't have to get into details about anything you did.

Edit: I don't mean to talk about this guy obsessively or anything like that. Somehow, I think there is a time and place in a relationship, like when he was sharing some of his past with you, that is appropriate. In a sense, he was telling you about his past in an effort to let you know they aren't important anymore. He was, at least somewhat, an open book, and that was the opportunity to share as much as you wanted, with him.


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## happy as a clam

Retroactive Jealousy Syndrome. Look it up.

Retroactive Jealousy Crusher

He is jealous of a past lover. And probably hurt that you never revealed how deep your feelings were for this man.


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## D.H Mosquito

Emma someone is mischief making and i would not rule out your ex lover, speak to hubby and tell him it's the past that's where it belongs and that you feel someone is trying to tear you both apart for their own ends, how recent is the pic and how long it was taken before you were married etc anything in the pic that would identify a time line to reassure him? but his ideal of you has been shattered but that's not your fault that's his for building up this image in his mind of what and who you are/were which is different from the reality of a red blooded woman who was a singleton like he was and knew others and had a life/your own path to walk before the ring went on the finger


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## 2ntnuf

Why does it always seem like men who are retroactively jealous? That's odd. I guess it has something to do with a mismatch of sexual experience? I don't really know. In any case, I think it depends on if he is dwelling on this and letting his treatment of you change because of this new knowledge. Of course, once the door is open a crack, it's tough to shut it again. I'm guessing this will haunt your marriage now. It's really a shame, but may easily have been avoided. Why would anyone want him to know this, unless they wanted to cause problems between you two? Many marriages break up over things that seem easier to solve than this. I would take this seriously and not just blame it all on him, but work with him, unless you want to divorce.

Edit: Obviously, either this person who sent those pictures, either knows your husband, or more likely, knows men in general are bothered by this kind of knowledge.


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## Plan 9 from OS

No one knows for sure if this is a simple case of RA or if there is more to the situation. If the OP did not divulge who this person was and the husband knew of this guy hanging around their circle of friends but not knowing that he and his wife had a past, then that is a possible issue right there. 

Second point, this is another classic template of a story that appears to be a case of the bad boy getting all the sex he wanted from his now wife by doing little other than staring into her eyes. Also, he appeared to take control and had his way with her despite her knowing that he was not looking for anything, which reinforces the notion that the bad boy gets what he wants when he wants while the nice guy gets the scraps and has to wait patiently like a little boy.

Third point is if she not only fell for a bad guy and had gobs of sex with her by him having to do nothing to gain her trust nor to make her feel secure in a relationship, but she gave sexual acts to him willingly and freely while the H either had to 1) work hard at it to get what the other guy got easily and/or 2) denied sex acts that the other guy easily got from his wife...

Someone else mentioned it, but I don't think this is a clear cut RA issue. I think the bigger issue in the H's eyes is "what if this guy comes back"? Does his wife swoon over the one that got away and leaves her H like a shot?

We have little to go on. But if this story unfolds like many on here, then we shouldn't be surprised if the wife is less attracted to her husband than this other guy, and the husband feels that he is competing with a ghost. 

The husband in the story didn't do his due diligence prior to marriage. Terrible decision on his part and frankly stupid. Now that they're together, bigger question is what would the OP do if this guy comes back into the area and looks her up?


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## 2ntnuf

> The husband in the story didn't do his due diligence prior to marriage. Terrible decision on his part and frankly stupid. Now that they're together, bigger question is what would the OP do if this guy comes back into the area and looks her up?


She doesn't have to tell him anything. He has no right to know about her past, any of it. He may not have known her friends well enough, which is likely in these cases, to ask such personal questions about her. I wouldn't ask them. He may not have known the men who knew her, well enough to ask this. It's very likely, in these cases, he didn't. It isn't right to ask these kinds of things, anyway. Who is going to ask? 

This does not mean she is bad or evil or any other slur. She has a right to do as she pleases with her life, within the law. 

I think she is in an EA. 

If I think it, and don't know her, what does her husband think? Why wouldn't she have any clue who might have sent something like this? She must be projecting, talking about, or actually unhappy with her husband and/or marriage. Or, she better call the police because she has a stalker. If it isn't wanted, it's unwanted. Either one is happy and this seems like a creep or you enjoy it and likely are unhappy.


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## Happilymarried25

Another post of a husband upset with his wife about what she did before you were married. Why I can't figure it out, the past is the past most of us have done things we weren't too proud about when we were young, we can't change that. Your husband needs to concentrate on the present and forget the past.


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## 2ntnuf

Happilymarried25 said:


> Another post of a husband upset with his wife about what she did before you were married. Why I can't figure it out, the past is the past most of us have done things we weren't too proud about when we were young, we can't change that. Your husband needs to concentrate on the present and forget the past.


:iagree: 

Why would anyone bring up the past? What would it benefit them? She better protect her marriage if she loves him. He has a right to wonder about what is happening today. She doesn't have to share one thing about her past, but he does have a right to protect his marriage.

Edit: I'm leaning toward EA with a mind to find an excuse.


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## AlisonBlaire

OP - do either of you have any social media accounts like facebook? By what means did these pictures come to your husband? I'm just trying to figure out if these pics were sent to your husband via e-mail or facebook, maybe you could see the identity of the person who sent it. Unless your husband won't show you his social media/e-mail accounts, that might make it difficult.... Does he know who sent him the pic?


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## richardsharpe

Good evening emma24
As far as I'm concerned, what you did in the past is entirely your business. As long as you didn't lie to your husband about your past, it really isn't any of his business.

I do not know about my wife's past. Nothing I might find out would bother me, I care about who she IS, not who she was.

In any case, having kissed other men shouldn't bother anyone.


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## Emma24

AlisonBlaire said:


> OP - do either of you have any social media accounts like facebook? By what means did these pictures come to your husband? I'm just trying to figure out if these pics were sent to your husband via e-mail or facebook, maybe you could see the identity of the person who sent it. Unless your husband won't show you his social media/e-mail accounts, that might make it difficult.... Does he know who sent him the pic?


I have no idea who sent him those pictures neither he knows. It was sent through mail which he received in the morning.


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## Emma24

Even if the guy comes back, I wont leave my husband. I love him too much.


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## TAM2013

OP. I think you know deep down what you should have disclosed to fairly enter into your marriage and to protect your husband in the future. If you try and hide something, you can bet it will come back to bite you and things become a million times worse than they needed to be.

You're both to blame. Your husband should not have pedastalized and idealized you. Nor should he have avoided these questions at the start or committed to you with any doubts. You've both learnt the hard way.

A persons past is none of anyones elses business? Yeah, right. Good luck with that.


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## 2ntnuf

Emma24 said:


> Even if the guy comes back, I wont leave my husband. I love him too much.


Why would he come back? Do you think he has some residual feelings for you? Did you let him know it was over between you two? When, where and how did you tell him? If you didn't, how will you let him know, now?


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## richardsharpe

Good evening intheory
Its clear that people are just wired differently. I really couldn't care less about what my wife did before we got married (barring illegal stuff). 

I have no worries some other guy was "better". I didn't marry a certified virgin who had been kept locked in her room. 

I care about privacy: mine and hers. There are things in my past that I have no desire to share - and she is welcome to keep things in her past. As long as these do not affect our present, I don't care. 

That said, I know that these things are very important to some people. 


Have there been threads of women worrying about their husband's past? I don't remember any, but I may have missed them.





intheory said:


> Oh goodie! Another "wife's past" thread.


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## AlisonBlaire

Emma24 said:


> I have no idea who sent him those pictures neither he knows. It was sent through mail which he received in the morning.


And the evidence is gone now? I would look through the trash to see if you can't find out where it came from.


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## 2ntnuf

Defend your marriage, or lose it.


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## Emma24

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You mentioned that you agreed to all this guy's demands. Does that mean that you made memories with him doing certain sex acts that you refused to your husband?
> 
> Was there ever a time in your relationship with your H that you two shut yourselves away from everyone had had sex most of the time together?
> 
> Bottom line is if you did things with or gave time to this man that you did not do for your husband, that is a big problem too.


I fulfill every wish of my husband. If I agreed to that guys demands, I agree to all my husband's demands as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *LittleDeer*

I think you need to insist on counseling. Your husband needs to get a handle on this. His reaction is just not healthy.


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## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> They are not nude photos , I never allowed that guy to take any nude photos of mine .


It is not clear. Did you have sex with that guy? Or just do some kissing?


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## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> I fulfill every wish of my husband. If I agreed to that guys demands, I agree to all my husband's demands as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OK, then that doesn't explain your husband's anger. Did you misrepresent your past. I know you stated that he never asked and you never shared it. But did he make assumptions about your past that you didn't correct for him? Maybe he's keying off of that.


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## BronzeTorpedo

Husbands get jealous of past lovers because men are naturally territorial about the women they love and because people want the best their spouses have to offer. The OP admitted that the affair was passionate and consisted of a week of constant sex. Most married couples have never experienced that kind of sex.

So, if the OP's husband got sex two or three times on his honeymoon, rationalized that his wife just isn't passionate, and now learns that she was so passionate about another man that she stayed naked in his home for a week, it will throw his view of his wife and marriage into chaos.

For those who insist that a woman's sexual past should be no concern of her husband's, let's try a converse experiment to test for logical consistency.

Take a hypothetical normal married couple. The husband earns $60k a year. Nothing very impressive, but above average and able to provide the basics. Their chosen lifestyle costs $100k a year, so the wife must a job comparable to her husband's.

After years of this, the wife learns that, six months before she met her husband, he was earning $1M a year and had $10M in the bank. He became disillusioned, quit his job, gave away his wealth and found his current job, which is where his wife met him.

Now, his wife never asked the man if he had been fabulously wealthy before she married him, so he never offered the information. But, now she knows that, if he chose to, he could earn 7 figures which would allow her to live a life of luxury. Would she be justified in being upset? Or does she have no claim to his best efforts?


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## EleGirl

BronzeTorpedo said:


> Husbands get jealous of past lovers because men are naturally territorial about the women they love and because people want the best their spouses have to offer. The OP admitted that the affair was passionate and consisted of a week of constant sex. Most married couples have never experienced that kind of sex.
> 
> So, if the OP's husband got sex two or three times on his honeymoon, rationalized that his wife just isn't passionate, and now learns that she was so passionate about another man that she stayed naked in his home for a week, it will throw his view of his wife and marriage into chaos.
> 
> For those who insist that a woman's sexual past should be no concern of her husband's, let's try a converse experiment to test for logical consistency.
> 
> Take a hypothetical normal married couple. The husband earns $60k a year. Nothing very impressive, but above average and able to provide the basics. Their chosen lifestyle costs $100k a year, so the wife must a job comparable to her husband's.
> 
> After years of this, the wife learns that, six months before she met her husband, he was earning $1M a year and had $10M in the bank. He became disillusioned, quit his job, gave away his wealth and found his current job, which is where his wife met him.
> 
> Now, his wife never asked the man if he had been fabulously wealthy before she married him, so he never offered the information. But, now she knows that, if he chose to, he could earn 7 figures which would allow her to live a life of luxury. Would she be justified in being upset? Or does she have no claim to his best efforts?


Why is it that men almost always use money as a way to explain to women why many men are often jealous of their wife's sexual past.

It does not work. money is not the be all and end all for women.


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## EleGirl

BronzeTorpedo said:


> Husbands get jealous of past lovers because men are naturally territorial about the women they love and because people want the best their spouses have to offer. The OP admitted that the affair was passionate and consisted of a week of constant sex. Most married couples have never experienced that kind of sex.
> 
> So, if the OP's husband got sex two or three times on his honeymoon, rationalized that his wife just isn't passionate, and now learns that she was so passionate about another man that she stayed naked in his home for a week, it will throw his view of his wife and marriage into chaos.
> 
> For those who insist that a woman's sexual past should be no concern of her husband's, let's try a converse experiment to test for logical consistency.
> 
> Take a hypothetical normal married couple. The husband earns $60k a year. Nothing very impressive, but above average and able to provide the basics. Their chosen lifestyle costs $100k a year, so the wife must a job comparable to her husband's.
> 
> After years of this, the wife learns that, six months before she met her husband, he was earning $1M a year and had $10M in the bank. He became disillusioned, quit his job, gave away his wealth and found his current job, which is where his wife met him.
> 
> Now, his wife never asked the man if he had been fabulously wealthy before she married him, so he never offered the information. But, now she knows that, if he chose to, he could earn 7 figures which would allow her to live a life of luxury. Would she be justified in being upset? Or does she have no claim to his best efforts?


Why is it that men almost always use money as a way to explain to women why many men are often jealous of their wife's sexual past.

It does not work. money is not the be all and end all for women.

What matters is who the man is today, not what he used earn.


----------



## EleGirl

intheory said:


>


Ok, I guess I just cannot read today


----------



## EleGirl

Some husbands get jealous of their wife's past because some men are socialized that way.

Some husbands do not get jealous of their wife's past because those men are not socialized to be jealous and controlling.


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## jb02157

Emma24 said:


> I was not in a relationship with my now husband when had the fling, we were friends that time.
> 
> My husband did tell me about his past and I was fine with it. He never really asked me so I never told him about mine.


I don't think that you can assume the "don't ask don't tell" policy exists in a marriage. When you are going to marry someone, shouldn't they know about your past, even more so if it involves someone you were involved sexually with that you both know? If he told you about his past, should you in turn, share that same information about you with him?

In many ways I can see why he's upset, I would be if I were him.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

EleGirl said:


> Why is it that men almost always use money as a way to explain to women why many men are often jealous of their wife's sexual past.
> 
> It does not work. money is not the be all and end all for women.
> 
> What matters is who the man is today, not what he used earn.


I'm simply acknowledging that sex is important to men and wealth is important to women. I never claimed that either was the "be all and end all" for either sex.

Apparently, you disagree that wealth is important to women and believe that men and women think the same, feel the same, and desire the same. Fair enough.

And you'll have to forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical of your claim that your husband giving up a fortune wouldn't faze you.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

EleGirl said:


> Some husbands get jealous of their wife's past because some men are socialized that way.
> 
> Some husbands do not get jealous of their wife's past because those men are not socialized to be jealous and controlling.


If jealousy is all nurture and no nature, why do practically all cultures around the world experience male jealousy and praise female chastity? Were the ancient Mongols really that influential to modern Western sexual preferences?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

2ntnuf said:


> *She doesn't have to tell him anything. He has no right to know about her past, any of it. *He may not have known her friends well enough, which is likely in these cases, to ask such personal questions about her. I wouldn't ask them. He may not have known the men who knew her, well enough to ask this. It's very likely, in these cases, he didn't. It isn't right to ask these kinds of things, anyway. Who is going to ask?


Sorry, but I think this is naive and is part of a larger issue that torpedos marriages before they get off the ground. Some people don't take the time to get to know the people they date. If they do take that time and the info exchanged is accurate, they don't take inventory and figure out if they can live with the info they know about their partners. Sexual pasts are just a part of a much bigger picture. The bigger issue is determining if you two share the same values. And a sexual past would be part of that. If you are a devout Christian, for example, and you want a spouse that is chaste, you would be interested you may want to discontinue the relationship if there is a sexual past, period. Alternatively, a sexual past can be a good indicator of whether a future spouse is susceptible to wild childs while you are a straight laced tame individual. Knowing that up front will allow you to make an informed choice on whether you think the sexual compatibility is there in the first place. Does he/she really find me attractive, or am I just a safe/stable choice to settle with?

How about CSA, mental illnesses, past criminal records or even if you were married/engaged? If sexual pasts are none of anyone's business, then wouldn't these other issues be the same? If people want to say "the past is just the past", then you can't be contradictory and say some things are important but other things are off limits. I would never jump into something with both feet until I know all about the woman I'm marrying. To me, it has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with determining compatibility and assessing values and belief systems.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> Even if the guy comes back, I wont leave my husband. I love him too much.


Until he comes back, do you really know? What if you found yourself in a locked gaze with the guy? I'm not accusing you of lying nor do I expect an answer to this question. It's possible that your H may have doubts if the guy came back into your life. Just food for thought.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sorry, but I think this is naive and is part of a larger issue that torpedos marriages before they get off the ground. Some people don't take the time to get to know the people they date. If they do take that time and the info exchanged is accurate, they don't take inventory and figure out if they can live with the info they know about their partners. Sexual pasts are just a part of a much bigger picture. The bigger issue is determining if you two share the same values. And a sexual past would be part of that. If you are a devout Christian, for example, and you want a spouse that is chaste, you would be interested you may want to discontinue the relationship if there is a sexual past, period. Alternatively, a sexual past can be a good indicator of whether a future spouse is susceptible to wild childs while you are a straight laced tame individual. Knowing that up front will allow you to make an informed choice on whether you think the sexual compatibility is there in the first place. Does he/she really find me attractive, or am I just a safe/stable choice to settle with?
> 
> How about CSA, mental illnesses, past criminal records or even if you were married/engaged? If sexual pasts are none of anyone's business, then wouldn't these other issues be the same? If people want to say "the past is just the past", then you can't be contradictory and say some things are important but other things are off limits. I would never jump into something with both feet until I know all about the woman I'm marrying. To me, it has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with determining compatibility and assessing values and belief systems.


I don't know. All I know is, someone sent some picture and she thinks her husband is the problem. Maybe he is, or maybe he isn't?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

EleGirl said:


> Why is it that men almost always use money as a way to explain to women why many men are often jealous of their wife's sexual past.
> 
> It does not work. money is not the be all and end all for women.


It could be about any topic. It comes to how you represent yourself to the person you are dating and if that representation is not accurate of who you really are. It's very much analogous to the sexual bait and switch.

Say you are dating a great guy that is strong, handsome and sensitive. He comes across as one who wouldn't harm a fly and a "live and let live" type of guy. You later find out the guy was a prominent member of the KKK - which flies contrary to your values. Would you not feel like you got ripped off in some way? If we continue the story, you may have a deep discussion and then decide whether you can overlook it or not. However, wouldn't it be nice to know some of these facts before marriage? It's a big difference between breaking up because you can't handle this past detail that he has in his life vs finding out later and trying to figure out how to divorce and divide assets and share child custody.


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## Emma24

jb02157 said:


> I don't think that you can assume the "don't ask don't tell" policy exists in a marriage. When you are going to marry someone, shouldn't they know about your past, even more so if it involves someone you were involved sexually with that you both know? If he told you about his past, should you in turn, share that same information about you with him?
> 
> In many ways I can see why he's upset, I would be if I were him.


If I told him before marriage, I doubt he would have married me considering his behaviour now :'( :'( 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS

2ntnuf said:


> I don't know. All I know is, someone sent some picture and she thinks her husband is the problem. Maybe he is, or maybe he isn't?


True, we have no idea what the husband is thinking nor what is motivating him. I was responding to the part where you stated that someone's sexual past is off limits and none of anyone else's business when engaged in the dating game. I disagreed and gave my reasoning.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> If I told him before marriage, I doubt he would have married me considering his behaviour now :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That may be what he's thinking - that if he knew the whole story he may have chosen differently. If this is what is really going on in his mind, I couldn't blame him. Myself or any other guy in this thread may feel differently about this situation if we knew you personally to make an informed decision. All we can do is make our best guesses about what is bothering your husband and possible suggestions to help.


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## jb02157

Emma24 said:


> If I told him before marriage, I doubt he would have married me considering his behaviour now :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm so sad to hear this. All you can do now is to keep the lines on communication open and assure him that you want to be with him only and not anyone else. I hope this all blows over.


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## ConanHub

Emma. Your description of your lover is very intense with deep desire. Even though he didn't want marriage, you gave yourself to him in an almost non stop sex fest until he took off.

You then found someone that would marry you but how are your feelings for him?

Does your husband feel desired like your lover? You say you love your husband but your words pale when compared to how you describe your lover.

If I can note the difference on this forum, do you think your husband has picked up on it as well?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emma24

How do I help him see me in a diffferent light? He is a quiet person but now he gives me the silent treatment when he is not arguing with me.

He has been reciprocating a little bit. Earlier he wouldnt even let me touch him but last night I hugged him and even kissed him and thankfully he didnt push me back.

But again today, he is acting cold :'( :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emma24

ConanHub said:


> Emma. Your description of your lover is very intense with deep desire. Even though he didn't want marriage, you gave yourself to him in an almost non stop sex fest until he took off.
> 
> You then found someone that would marry you but how are your feelings for him?
> 
> Does your husband feel desired like your lover? You say you love your husband but your words pale when compared to how you describe your lover.
> 
> If I can note the difference on this forum, do you think your husband has picked up on it as well?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I admit I was madly attracted to him.
I don't know what he had in him but it was really intense.

But now I care less about him.
Even if he showed up, I wouldnt look at him . I only care about my husband and marriage :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Noble1

Sorry to hear about your situation.

It is hard to understand since it is in the past...but for your husband...this just happened to him.

Yes your past "lover" may be in the past but as mentioned above your memories of that time seem very treasured.

Would your husband tell us he feels 'treasured' by you if we were to ask?

It may be biological or just plain immature but men in general want to be "wanted"/respected/desired/ etc...by their wife and it is hard to cope for some when they "know" that their wife felt/feels that way about someone else.

Hope it all works out for the both of you.

Good luck.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> How do I help him see me in a diffferent light? *He is a quiet person* but now he gives me the silent treatment when he is not arguing with me.
> 
> He has been reciprocating a little bit. Earlier he would even let me touch him but last night I gave hugged him and even kissed him and thankfully he didnt push me back.
> 
> But again today, he is acting cold :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you try the direct approach and ask him what is the root of the issue that bothers him about this? My guess is the wild accusations he made was him lashing out, and you have yet to figure out what he sees as the root of the issue. Until you get that out of him, you can't do much to fix it.

Interesting clue in bold. The husband is a quiet and reserved person. I would bet your ex lover was not. Maybe your husband is mad at himself more than anything. Your ex lover just took what he wanted and you were naked with him almost non stop for a week. Your husband OTOH, probably does not take what he wants but waits patiently until it's OK to proceed. This 2nd paragraph is just speculation on my part based on what little we know. If it appears to fit given what you know about your H, then I'm glad.


----------



## norajane

Emma24 said:


> But since a month, he has been acting horribly with me. Someone, sent him photos of me kissing a guy I used to know and since then he has been upset. Even my husband knew that guy because he was in our frien circle.
> 
> Someone knew about my past experience and they sent those photos to my husband and I was forced to reveal everything about my past which infuriated my husband.
> 
> I am a submissive wife so I listened to all he had to say. My only goal is to keep him happy and feel loved.





Emma24 said:


> Even I don't know who took the photos and who sent him now.





Emma24 said:


> They are not nude photos , I never allowed that guy to take any nude photos of mine .





Emma24 said:


> I have no idea who sent him those pictures neither he knows. It was sent through mail which he received in the morning.





Emma24 said:


> I fulfill every wish of my husband. If I agreed to that guys demands, I agree to all my husband's demands as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Emma, your story isn't credible. Who could possibly have taken photos of you and that guy kissing? Without you noticing?

Where were the photos taken? Your house where you were for that week you spent together? Who could get into your house to take pictures without you noticing? 

Anyway, your H is over reacting. Since you're a submissive wife and live just to please him, I'd expect your H to have years and years of life with you to know that you only live to please him. Treating you badly, saying that you might be cheating and the baby might not be his is just him lashing out at you because he can't stand the idea of you "agreeing to all the demands" of someone who isn't him - your H sees you as "his" and hates it that someone else played with his toys. He's 9 years older than you; he should be mature enough to see the reality (submissive wife living to please him) rather than focus on your one-week fling from years ago.

Pointing that out to him won't help you, though.


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## Plan 9 from OS

50 Shades of Gray???


----------



## Emma24

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Did you try the direct approach and ask him what is the root of the issue that bothers him about this? My guess is the wild accusations he made was him lashing out, and you have yet to figure out what he sees as the root of the issue. Until you get that out of him, you can't do much to fix it.
> 
> Interesting clue in bold. The husband is a quiet and reserved person. I would bet your ex lover was not. Maybe your husband is mad at himself more than anything. Your ex lover just took what he wanted and you were naked with him almost non stop for a week. Your husband OTOH, probably does not take what he wants but waits patiently until it's OK to proceed. This 2nd paragraph is just speculation on my part based on what little we know. If it appears to fit given what you know about your H, then I'm glad.


My husband isnt so reserved. 
True he talks less but when he is being romantic, he is a completely different person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TAM2013

I kept my Femdom neck chained gimp mask days from my wife. After all, a mans past is his past, right? It wasn't illegal. WTF has it got to do with anyone else? She was so jealous and insecure when she saw the photos, she freaked and fvcking left me. I now have a new wife who doesn't care (about anything really) and we're very happy.

And to the gents who don't care what their wife was doing before you met. Where do you hide *your* gimp masks?


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## 2ntnuf

Emma24 said:


> I admit I was madly attracted to him.
> I don't know what he had in him but it was really intense.
> 
> But now I care less about him.
> Even if he showed up, I wouldnt look at him . I only care about my husband and marriage :-(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you still are and have not, over the past month, shown anything different. Sorry, I find the underlined humorous. I do think this is an odd thread. If you have been having other trouble in your marriage, this is just one more obstacle that will help you to break up. I'm not judging you on your past and it's none of his business. I think he knows that because you said somewhere in this thread he didn't question you about it when you got married, only presented his and let it go. Now, being it's come into the present, and with other issues already in the marriage, it is understandable. It also leads me to think there is an EA. Why would this guy or any guy care to send pictures? What good would it do if you really love your husband and he knows, as you seem to believe? This is too odd and full of blame. I wish you luck.


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## TAM2013

emma24 said:


> if i told him before marriage, i doubt he would have married me considering his behaviour now :'( :'(
> _posted via mobile device_


I rest my case.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

2ntnuf said:


> I think you still are and have not, over the past month, shown anything different. Sorry, I find the underlined humorous. I do think this is an odd thread. If you have been having other trouble in your marriage, this is just one more obstacle that will help you to break up. I'm not judging you on your past and it's none of his business. I think he knows that because you said somewhere in this thread he didn't question you about it when you got married, only presented his and let it go. Now, being it's come into the present, and with other issues already in the marriage, it is understandable. *It also leads me to think there is an EA.* Why would this guy or any guy care to send pictures? What good would it do if you really love your husband and he knows, as you seem to believe? This is too odd and full of blame. I wish you luck.


What did she state that made you think there was a recent EA? Based on the original story, the pictures would make me think she added a contradiction in her story (note that I didn't say situation...). Otherwise, she lied about her involvement with this guy and it was actually a longer relationship than it really was. But if you think the pictures factor in as taken with her full knowledge and awareness...then wouldn't we be talking about a PA?

IMHO, I think it's a contradiction introduced into the story. However, since a number of people visit this site and no doubt is not an uncommon story, the thread is good for discussion at the least.


----------



## alexm

jb02157 said:


> I don't think that you can assume the "don't ask don't tell" policy exists in a marriage. When you are going to marry someone, shouldn't they know about your past, even more so *if it involves someone you were involved sexually with that you both know*? If he told you about his past, should you in turn, share that same information about you with him?
> 
> In many ways I can see why he's upset, I would be if I were him.


I agree with the bolded part only. The rest, not completely. There are arguments for and against, and it really rests on the couple to determine if it's important or not. Both people on the same page is ideal. When they're not, it's disaster, as we can see.

I find it very important at the beginning of a relationship, as it helps determine if you see eye to eye on some of the most basic things - things that are doubly important in marriage. Attitudes and expectations towards sex, for example.

My wife says only the here and now matters.

Yet here she and I are, worlds apart when it comes to that topic. Had I known what I know now, it's entirely possible we could have gone our separate ways, OR I would have known to temper my expectations and adjust accordingly. But it's the ability to make a properly informed decision at that time that was taken away from me, which causes resentment.

In my eyes, I would have chosen to stay with my now-wife, however the information that was oh-so-unimportant at that time  almost always tends to come out eventually anyway, and I believe it has set us back years.

C'est la vie, n'est pas?


----------



## alexm

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sorry, but I think this is naive and is part of a larger issue that torpedos marriages before they get off the ground. Some people don't take the time to get to know the people they date. If they do take that time and the info exchanged is accurate, they don't take inventory and figure out if they can live with the info they know about their partners. Sexual pasts are just a part of a much bigger picture. The bigger issue is determining if you two share the same values. And a sexual past would be part of that. If you are a devout Christian, for example, and you want a spouse that is chaste, you would be interested you may want to discontinue the relationship if there is a sexual past, period. Alternatively, a sexual past can be a good indicator of whether a future spouse is susceptible to wild childs while you are a straight laced tame individual. Knowing that up front will allow you to make an informed choice on whether you think the sexual compatibility is there in the first place. Does he/she really find me attractive, or am I just a safe/stable choice to settle with?
> 
> How about CSA, mental illnesses, past criminal records or even if you were married/engaged? If sexual pasts are none of anyone's business, then wouldn't these other issues be the same? If people want to say "the past is just the past", then you can't be contradictory and say some things are important but other things are off limits. I would never jump into something with both feet until I know all about the woman I'm marrying. To me, it has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with determining compatibility and assessing values and belief systems.



Here's some irony for you:

When somebody gives you that line about the past being unimportant, or otherwise gives you the "how dare you ask me" response - chances are VERY good that they're not very proud of this past, therefore you generally have all the information you need to determine if it's a match or not.

The details themselves are largely unimportant. It's the attitude towards it that matters.

Besides, I find shame or guilt or generally not being proud of one's past to be at odds with my views on the subject, therefore it's enough to go on, imo. It really doesn't matter if the shame or guilt is related to the # of partners or of the circumstances, or the situations in which he/she was in. You could be ashamed of sleeping with 5 people, 50 people or 1 person. The attitude is the same.

It's much better, imo, to neither be ashamed NOR proud of one's past, regardless of what it is.

After all, the words "the past is just the past" or "it means nothing" should mean exactly that. If one truly believes those words, then what's the issue with disclosure if one is asked?


----------



## alexm

2ntnuf said:


> I don't know. All I know is, someone sent some picture and she thinks her husband is the problem. Maybe he is, or maybe he isn't?


This.

I hope this doesn't go off on TOO much of a tangent, so I apologize.

The thing is, stuff like this tends to follow one around occasionally. It doesn't mean it's your fault, or even somebody else's, BUT, things do tend to pop up when you least expect it, or hope it doesn't. These things are usually related to one's past, when perhaps their values or beliefs were different, or they didn't tie up a loose end, or what have you.

For example - my wife recently received an "accidental" d*** pic from a former co-worker. She and I have had to establish boundaries over the years in terms of how she handles male co-workers attention, how she responds, and how she has difficulty shutting them down. Also with being able to recognize when one is being friendly or FRIENDLY.

Now, I put NO blame whatsoever on my wife having received an unsolicited picture of a former co-workers junk. She didn't ask for it, she was horrified he did that (even if it was accidental) and she let me deal with it.

That said, this "man" (term used loosely) apparently thought she was a safe target for this type of thing. He was wrong, obviously. There is no doubt about that. Yet he was just comfortable enough to take a leap that she may possibly be, if not outright receptive to it, then at least not totally offended. Not to mention that if she was none of the above, then at the very least, he wouldn't have been completely embarrassed by it. Does that make sense?

Is it my wife's fault she put the wrong impression forth to this guy? Of course not. Even if she did, what happened was not warranted, and never is under any circumstances.

However, this is the dangerous game one plays with boundaries. Because there ARE idiots out there, misogynists, weirdos, and narcissists. One has to, unfortunately, make things crystal clear at all times when it comes to sex and sexuality. It's a sad reality, but there it is.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

alexm said:


> Here's some irony for you:
> 
> When somebody gives you that line about the past being unimportant, or otherwise gives you the "how dare you ask me" response - chances are VERY good that they're not very proud of this past, therefore you generally have all the information you need to determine if it's a match or not.
> 
> The details themselves are largely unimportant. It's the attitude towards it that matters.
> 
> Besides, I find shame or guilt or generally not being proud of one's past to be at odds with my views on the subject, therefore it's enough to go on, imo. It really doesn't matter if the shame or guilt is related to the # of partners or of the circumstances, or the situations in which he/she was in. You could be ashamed of sleeping with 5 people, 50 people or 1 person. The attitude is the same.
> 
> It's much better, imo, to neither be ashamed NOR proud of one's past, regardless of what it is.
> 
> *After all, the words "the past is just the past" or "it means nothing" should mean exactly that. If one truly believes those words, then what's the issue with disclosure if one is asked?*


By that logic, then every relationship should be judged on the present only, period. In addition to sexual pasts, it puts everything into the "none of your business" categories. If people agree with that, then that's fine and people's prerogatives to do that. I disagree with that. Your past defines who you are. It gives you the insight into making the best guess of what defines a person's character, values and views on life. If I was dating someone and they try to hide facts about their past - whether it's sexual or some other facets - then I'd drop that person. If you have the discussion and get to the bottom of why someone may have thought one way and then did a 180 and changed their views, cool. Be honest and let me know who you are - warts and all. In many cases, the coverup is worse than the "crime".

I don't believe there should be such a thing as a "black box" when it comes to marrying someone.


----------



## EleGirl

BronzeTorpedo said:


> I'm simply acknowledging that sex is important to men and wealth is important to women. I never claimed that either was the "be all and end all" for either sex..
> 
> Apparently, you disagree that wealth is important to women and believe that men and women think the same, feel the same, and desire the same. Fair enough...


Sex is important to women as well.

Wealth is also important to men. If it were not, there would not be such a fight in this world by men to accumulate as much as they could. There would not be men who seek to destroy complete economies to suck off every drop of wealth they can leaving whole populations dirt poor.

You have a very skewed perspective.





BronzeTorpedo said:


> And you'll have to forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical of your claim that your husband giving up a fortune wouldn't faze you.


My first husband gave up a 6 figure income to go back to school to do what he wanted to do. It's not quite a fortune, but it's more than most people make. It did not phase me at all. I became the sole bread winner. So you see, you haven't a clue.

In your scenario he gave it up before he met her.

You see, when they got married, she married him for who he was at that point in time.

If it were true that money was the most important thing to women in generally, then no one but rich men would be married. When I go to Walmart I see tons of very poor couples with their children. Most people live pay check to pay check. Obviously money is not the most important thing to women. It's a stereo type used to insult women in general.


----------



## EleGirl

norajane said:


> Emma, your story isn't credible. Who could possibly have taken photos of you and that guy kissing? Without you noticing?
> 
> Where were the photos taken? Your house where you were for that week you spent together? Who could get into your house to take pictures without you noticing?
> 
> Anyway, your H is over reacting. Since you're a submissive wife and live just to please him, I'd expect your H to have years and years of life with you to know that you only live to please him. Treating you badly, saying that you might be cheating and the baby might not be his is just him lashing out at you because he can't stand the idea of you "agreeing to all the demands" of someone who isn't him - your H sees you as "his" and hates it that someone else played with his toys. He's 9 years older than you; he should be mature enough to see the reality (submissive wife living to please him) rather than focus on your one-week fling from years ago.
> 
> Pointing that out to him won't help you, though.


:iagree: QFT Emma, this is what is going on with your husband.


----------



## EleGirl

Emma,

Is this guy the only other man you have ever had sex with?

Did you husband think that you were a virgin?

I presume that he was not.


----------



## EleGirl

Also, Emma,

Is there any chance that your husband is having an affair (EA or PA)? 

The reason I ask is in looking for a motive, I would look into if some woman who also knows your exbf got the pic and sent it to your husband to break you two up.

While your husband is going nuts over this, there is someone out there who is trying to destroy your marriage.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

EleGirl said:


> Also, Emma,
> 
> Is there any chance that your husband is having an affair (EA or PA)?
> 
> The reason I ask is in looking for a motive, I would look into if some woman who also knows your exbf got the pic and sent it to your husband to break you two up.
> 
> While your husband is going nuts over this, there is someone out there who is trying to destroy your marriage.


IMHO, when I use Occam's razor on this thread I come up with a completely different idea all together. What is the simplest scenario that most likely describes what is going on in this thread?


----------



## Kahlil Gibran

Emma24 said:


> My husband did tell me about his past and I was fine with it. He never really asked me so I never told him about mine.


How is this possible?
He lays out all the information about his past and when he’s done you do what? Change the subject? How could you not reciprocate? Why didn’t he ask you to reciprocate, especially when appears to be really important to him.


----------



## Bam85

Your husband might want to try growing a pair. It happened before you were in a relationship, you didn't lie about it and I'm assuming some years have passed since all of it happened. At this point, accusing you of carrying some other man's child makes him seem like a wuss. Insecurity isn't a good look on people. Just my $0.02.


----------



## RClawson

Speaking as one who processes like your husband I will add my thoughts. When you sleep with a mutual friend or acquaintance before you marry someone that is not information you just "sweep under the rug". 

My wife let me know she had been sleeping with someone before we married but neglected to tell me it was one of my friends. You people who believe this is no ones business are morally bankrupt and lying to yourselves despite how "enlightened" you believe you are. 

You say you have no interest in the guy from your past? Maybe you do not but your husband will always believe you do from this point forward. My wife told me she never thinks of this guy but her facebook history says different, as do her conversations with her best friend (his sister in law) and the dumb a$$ music she downloads.

Not quite sure who is messing with you (the whole picture thing does not quite add up) but if he shows up in person, through mutual friends, via the internet it will be a tough road ahead.


----------



## RClawson

Bam85 said:


> Your husband might want to try growing a pair. It happened before you were in a relationship, you didn't lie about it and I'm assuming some years have passed since all of it happened. At this point, accusing you of carrying some other man's child makes him seem like a wuss. Insecurity isn't a good look on people. Just my $0.02.


So I take it if your wife slept with one of your friends or maybe an acquaintance you did not like before you married her and decided to keep that information to herself you would be cool with that right?


----------



## Bam85

RClawson said:


> So I take it if your wife slept with one of your friends or maybe an acquaintance you did not like before you married her and decided to keep that information to herself you would be cool with that right?


It's in the past. That's why they call it that. It's pretty hard for people to live their lives knowing, ahead of time, who they're going to ultimately end up with. I'm sure I'd feel upset if I knew that my SO thinks their past lover is all "ethereal and perfect looking". Those feelings would pass once once the logic would set in. 

I don't think that completely assassinating my spouse's entire character and accusing them of being pregnant by someone else is a warranted reaction to that. I really don't even know why people have talks about their past. It never leads to anything positive. It just gives your loved one a reason to feel pissed or insecure. Pasts can't be changed, unfortunately. As long as the person I'm with has been 100% respectful and loyal to our relationship from the time it began, I have no reason to be upset (not to mention hysterical like her husband).


----------



## RClawson

Bam85 said:


> It's in the past. That's why they call it that. It's pretty hard for people to live their lives knowing, ahead of time, who they're going to ultimately end up with. I'm sure I'd feel upset if I knew that my SO thinks their past lover is all "ethereal and perfect looking". Those feelings would pass once once the logic would set in.
> 
> I don't think that completely assassinating my spouse's entire character and accusing them of being pregnant by someone else is a warranted reaction to that. I really don't even know why people have talks about their past. It never leads to anything positive. *It just gives your loved one a reason to feel pissed or insecure. Pasts can't be changed, unfortunately. As long as the person I'm with has been 100% respectful and loyal to our relationship from the time it began, I have no reason to be upset (not to mention hysterical like her husband)*.


Actually when you are honest with someone you are about to marry by being open with them about your past then they can make a clear decision about whether you want to be married to that individual based on all information.

This was obviously relevant information. He shared his past..............she shared zip. I wonder why? Honestly your outlook on this is not intellectually honest.


----------



## frusdil

Emma, what exactly was the content of the photos? Were you kissing? Having sex? Were you kissing in a public place or in your home?

Any rate, while seeing pics of your partner kissing or having sex with someone else is confronting for anyone, the fact remains that you were NOT in a relationship with your husband when you were with this man, and what you did before you were with your husband is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS.

If it mattered to him so darn much, he should have asked you directly.

For him to treat you this appalling, immature way with the silent treatment and actually ask who's baby you're carrying is downright insulting.


----------



## jdawg2015

frusdil said:


> Emma, what exactly was the content of the photos? Were you kissing? Having sex? Were you kissing in a public place or in your home?
> 
> Any rate, while seeing pics of your partner kissing or having sex with someone else is confronting for anyone, the fact remains that you were NOT in a relationship with your husband when you were with this man, and what you did before you were with your husband is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS.
> 
> If it mattered to him so darn much, he should have asked you directly.
> 
> For him to treat you this appalling, immature way with the silent treatment and actually ask who's baby you're carrying is downright insulting.


I belieive having them mailed to him make it his business and if a spouse wants to know something about the past they have a right to know. 

What's he supposed to say, "no big deal"?


----------



## *LittleDeer*

BronzeTorpedo said:


> Husbands get jealous of past lovers because men are naturally territorial about the women they love and because people want the best their spouses have to offer. The OP admitted that the affair was passionate and consisted of a week of constant sex. Most married couples have never experienced that kind of sex.
> 
> So, if the OP's husband got sex two or three times on his honeymoon, rationalized that his wife just isn't passionate, and now learns that she was so passionate about another man that she stayed naked in his home for a week, it will throw his view of his wife and marriage into chaos.
> 
> For those who insist that a woman's sexual past should be no concern of her husband's, let's try a converse experiment to test for logical consistency.
> 
> Take a hypothetical normal married couple. The husband earns $60k a year. Nothing very impressive, but above average and able to provide the basics. Their chosen lifestyle costs $100k a year, so the wife must a job comparable to her husband's.
> 
> After years of this, the wife learns that, six months before she met her husband, he was earning $1M a year and had $10M in the bank. He became disillusioned, quit his job, gave away his wealth and found his current job, which is where his wife met him.
> 
> Now, his wife never asked the man if he had been fabulously wealthy before she married him, so he never offered the information. But, now she knows that, if he chose to, he could earn 7 figures which would allow her to live a life of luxury. Would she be justified in being upset? Or does she have no claim to his best efforts?


:scratchhead:
Bizarre comparison IMO.


----------



## EleGirl

jdawg2015 said:


> I belieive having them mailed to him make it his business and if a spouse wants to know something about the past they have a right to know.
> 
> What's he supposed to say, "no big deal"?


Yea.. no big deal.

If I got pictures of my husband kissing some woman he dated before we married.. it's no big deal.


----------



## RClawson

EleGirl said:


> Yea.. no big deal.
> 
> If I got pictures of my husband kissing some woman he dated before we married.. it's no big deal.


It was not a picture of her kissing a guy she dated it was a picture of her kissing a guy who used her for a pin cushion for about 1 week.


----------



## EleGirl

RClawson said:


> It was not a picture of her kissing a guy she dated it was a picture of her kissing a guy who used her for a pin cushion for about 1 week.


Oh good lord... When I say dated I mean that he had a sexual relationship with.

And why is it that when some men talk about women having sex they have to say it in a way that demeans her???? 

Her having a sexual relationship is no reason to call her a pin cushion. She did nothing wrong.

Why is it that if she had sex she was used? Why not they had consensual, mutual sex?

Geez


----------



## RClawson

EleGirl said:


> Oh good lord... When I say dated I mean that he had a sexual relationship with.
> 
> And why is it that when some men talk about women having sex they have to say it in a way that demeans her????
> 
> Her having a sexual relationship is no reason to call her a pin cushion. She did nothing wrong.
> 
> Geez


Your right she did nothing wrong except neglect to let her husband know she had a week long fling with someone he knew. Evidently she must of thought he would not care right?

Come on Ele you are a bit more intelligent than this. I am not sure I am buying any of this but if true she is the one who "just had to have him". "it was his light brown eyes". Good grief get a grip. He let her know he was not interested in anything other than using her for sex and she stepped right up. She defined it and I am sorry you do not like my side line reporting. 

If it makes you feel better I will state that he is a pig. Oh wait he is just another Alpha that cannot help himself.


----------



## EleGirl

RClawson said:


> Your right she did nothing wrong except neglect to let her husband know she had a week long fling with someone he knew. Evidently she must of thought he would not care right?
> 
> Come on Ele you are a bit more intelligent than this. I am not sure I am buying any of this but if true she is the one who "just had to have him". "it was his light brown eyes". Good grief get a grip. He let her know he was not interested in anything other than using her for sex and she stepped right up. She defined it and I am sorry you do not like my side line reporting.


If her husband thought that knowing her sexual past was important he should have brought it up before he married her. Apparently it was not that important to him back then.

Most men do not ask about a woman's sexual past. Most women do not ask either. Most people do not give every detail of their past.



RClawson said:


> If it makes you feel better I will state that he is a pig. Oh wait he is just another Alpha that cannot help himself.


Why would it make me feel better if you called him a pig? People have sex all the time. People here on TAM who are single talk about having sex with people they are not married to all the time. Are they all pigs? You going to go call them all pigs and pin cushions? Do you really think this about all the people here and elsewhere who are not married and have sex?

They were two adults who wanted to have sex. So what? Why would you be so upset about this? So upset that you are calling people names?

It's against forum rules to call a poster names. You called the OP a name and denigrated her.


----------



## RClawson

EleGirl said:


> If her husband thought that knowing her sexual past was important he should have brought it up before he married her. Apparently it was not that important to him back then.
> 
> *I believe he shared his and that would be a cue for most people you are about to marry that "hey we are sharing past information. Once again she slept with a guy he knew and chose not to divulge that. How did that work out? *
> 
> Most men do not ask about a woman's sexual past. Most women do not ask either. Most people do not give every detail of their past.
> 
> *Thank you for the generalization*
> 
> 
> 
> Why would it make me feel better if you called him a pig? People have sex all the time. People here on TAM who are single talk about having sex with people they are not married to all the time. Are they all pigs? You going to go call them all pigs and pin cushions? Do you really think this about all the people here and elsewhere who are not married and have sex?
> 
> They were two adults who wanted to have sex. So what? Why would you be so upset about this? So upset that you are calling people names?
> 
> *I am not upset about this. Listen there are plenty of individuals who have posted that do not seem to be bothered by this. I happen to be an individual who has experienced the exact same thing happen to me in my life. So sorry my opinion does not align with yours but I am certainly entitled to it.*
> 
> It's against forum rules to call a poster names. You called the OP a name and denigrated her.


*No I did not call her a name. I stated she allowed herself to be used by someone else for their animal pleasure. Many people in this forum are not so polite when referring to people who come her who have cheated or are walk away spouses and that is just a fact. *


----------



## EleGirl

RClawson said:


> I believe he shared his and that would be a cue for most people you are about to marry that "hey we are sharing past information. Once again she slept with a guy he knew and chose not to divulge that. How did that work out?


I would think that he was mature enough to ask her what he wanted to know. 



RClawson said:


> Thank you for the generalization


There is a thread on TAM where this is discussed. Most men and women said that they have never asked and have never been asked. 


RClawson said:


> No I did not call her a name. I stated she allowed herself to be used by someone else for their animal pleasure.


You called her a “pin cushion”. That is a disgusting way to refer to a woman. It’s denigrating. 


RClawson said:


> Many people in this forum are not so polite when referring to people who come her who have cheated or are walk away spouses and that is just a fact.


Yes it’s a fact that many people on TAM are very rude and crude. The OP is not a wife who cheated nor is she a WAW. I know its great sport to call women names on TAM. And there is also a rule on TAM to not call people names.


----------



## RClawson

Wait there is a thread on TAM and most women said that they were never asked. It must be true!

We can talk semantics all night long but the fact is she allowed herself , by her own admission, to be used by him for a week. He told her upfront that was all he was going to do. I am telling it like she said. Sorry you do not like the reality of what it was. Once again how did that all work out?

The fact is, despite my inability to point to a scientific poll on TAM, people are far to casual about sex. Kids do not get to be kids any longer because they are exposed to adult situations in the media day and night. Look at the discussions on this board. It is very clear older adults can hardly handle the ins and outs of the emotional part of intimacy and kids think they know they are getting into in their mid teens. They have no clue.

The OP created this situation and it is coming back to haunt her. The man she loves is not on board and 50% here are baffled that he cannot just suck it up. Feelings are fickle but they are also reality.

Can she fix this? Likely. All the way? Never. Her problem? Just slightly. His problem? Likely for the rest of his life based on his current behavior.


----------



## Kahlil Gibran

RClawson said:


> The OP created this situation and it is coming back to haunt her. The man she loves is not on board and 50% here are baffled that he cannot just suck it up. Feelings are fickle but they are also reality.
> 
> Can she fix this? Likely. All the way? Never. Her problem? Just slightly. His problem? Likely for the rest of his life based on his current behavior.


Exactly.

Especially with the photos sent to the husband via US mail. There is an unknown third party up to malice. That is upsetting to most people.

By the glowing description written by the OP, she still has desires for the guy. She denies it, but who writes: “He was a extremely handsome and a very mysterious man and I admit we had a strange connection since the day I met him. Whenever I would meet him, I would go lost into his eyes and would find myself staring at him, even forgetting what I had to say to him.” About someone they could now care less about?

My guess the photos are from the “ handsome and a very mysterious man” and he setting the stage for a return. Your husband knows it and knows it will be a game changer.


----------



## EleGirl

intheory said:


> Where does OP say they were sent via physical mail?
> 
> *This is a good point*. If they were sent through the U.S. mail, there would have been a postmark on the package, indicating what city they were mailed from. It might help to identify who sent them.
> 
> If sent through e-mail, wouldn't there be an identifying original email address?
> 
> I think it is important to know who sent these picture and what they meant to accomplish by it.
> 
> I agree it was an odd and malicious thing to do. It must be frightening to know that you have an enemy who went to the trouble to do this.
> 
> OP, what do you think?


I do not think that the OP is in the USA. The language usage sounds like Bollywood.


----------



## Emma24

Kahlil Gibran said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Especially with the photos sent to the husband via US mail. There is an unknown third party up to malice. That is upsetting to most people.
> 
> By the glowing description written by the OP, she still has desires for the guy. She denies it, but who writes: “He was a extremely handsome and a very mysterious man and I admit we had a strange connection since the day I met him. Whenever I would meet him, I would go lost into his eyes and would find myself staring at him, even forgetting what I had to say to him.” About someone they could now care less about?
> 
> My guess the photos are from the “ handsome and a very mysterious man” and he setting the stage for a return. Your husband knows it and knows it will be a game changer.


I dont have any desires for that guy. I just wrote what I used to feel about him, honestly.

Just because I wrote it does not mean I still have feelings for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> I dont have any desires for that guy. I just wrote what I used to feel about him, honestly.
> 
> Just because I wrote it does not mean I still have feelings for him.


Did you tell it to your husband the same way you wrote it in your post here?


----------



## *LittleDeer*

Emma, there seems to be a lot of men in the world that have to stoop to denigrating women and putting them down for daring to be sexual. Take no notice, it's pure insecurity on their part. 

Your husband is displaying the same behaviour.


----------



## *LittleDeer*

RClawson said:


> Wait there is a thread on TAM and most women said that they were never asked. It must be true!
> 
> We can talk semantics all night long but the fact is she allowed herself , by her own admission, to be used by him for a week. He told her upfront that was all he was going to do. I am telling it like she said. Sorry you do not like the reality of what it was. Once again how did that all work out?
> 
> The fact is, despite my inability to point to a scientific poll on TAM, people are far to casual about sex. Kids do not get to be kids any longer because they are exposed to adult situations in the media day and night. Look at the discussions on this board. It is very clear older adults can hardly handle the ins and outs of the emotional part of intimacy and kids think they know they are getting into in their mid teens. They have no clue.
> 
> The OP created this situation and it is coming back to haunt her. The man she loves is not on board and 50% here are baffled that he cannot just suck it up. Feelings are fickle but they are also reality.
> 
> Can she fix this? Likely. All the way? Never. Her problem? Just slightly. His problem? Likely for the rest of his life based on his current behavior.


I'm confused. Kids can't be kids because a woman on the internet dared to have a mutually satisfying sexual fling with a man she knew? Huh :scratchhead:

She might have used him. Or it could have just been a mutually awesome good time. He probably had an awesome penis and she couldn't resist. 

I know some guys don't want women to enjoy sex or have sexual feelings before marriage but after if they don't have them they have done the old bait and switcheroonie. 

Contrary to popular belief women are sexual beings. They love sex, enjoy penis and have a right to enjoying their single years.


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> Did you tell it to your husband the same way you wrote it in your post here?


Yes I told him everything
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> Yes I told him everything
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you used the same words... you told your husband that you were insanely attracted to the guy??? If you did, it might be the words you used that caused a lot of the problem. 



Emma24 said:


> I was so insanely attracted to him and his eyes (i still remember he had really alluring light brown eyes) that I agreed to all his demands. He wanted to stay with me for a week and we did, mostly having sex most of the time.
> 
> He never let me out of his sight and for a week, I stayed in with him at his house. The day he was leaving, he kissed me many times and left.


I think that all you can do is to give your husband time. You cannot change the past.

But you need to know who sent that picture. 

Do you know who took it? Was it taken outside? Or in the house were you were that week? If you know who took the picture, then you probably know who sent it.


----------



## alexm

Plan 9 from OS said:


> By that logic, then every relationship should be judged on the present only, period.


What I'm saying is that, from MY perspective, attitude towards things are far more important than what one has actually done. I think that when you get right down to it, that's generally all anybody wants by asking these questions anyway - does their attitude and outlook closely match my own?

I think the # question is a red herring a lot of the time. It's almost a trick question, because it's not really the answer one truly focuses on, it's if they respond, how they respond, how open or secretive they are, how ashamed or proud they are, etc.

My wife has had a lot more experience than I have. Exactly how much, I have no idea. It's actually irrelevant to me, tbh. However she clearly has some (or even a lot) of guilt or shame about it. And it's those feelings that concern me, and are at odds with my own views and attitudes towards the subject.

And here's the thing - my relationship life has been nothing but long term. 3 years with one woman, a few months single, 14 years with my ex wife, several months single, and now 6 years with my current wife. I simply haven't had the opportunities to gain experience. Take away those 14 years, and my experience would more closely match my wife's, I'm sure. And that's how I look at things - my experience level is low, compared to hers, because I simply never had the opportunities, not because I CHOSE to keep it low. My attitudes towards the subject are not all that different than hers, however I don't think she feels that way, given our great divide in that area.


----------



## TAM2013

alexm said:


> What I'm saying is that, from MY perspective, attitude towards things are far more important than what one has actually done. I think that when you get right down to it, that's generally all anybody wants by asking these questions anyway - does their attitude and outlook closely match my own?
> 
> I think the # question is a red herring a lot of the time. It's almost a trick question, because it's not really the answer one truly focuses on, it's if they respond, how they respond, how open or secretive they are, how ashamed or proud they are, etc.


This is a clever man.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

EleGirl said:


> Sex is important to women as well.


Sure it is. It's just not exactly as important as it is to men and in the exact same ways.



> Wealth is also important to men. If it were not, there would not be such a fight in this world by men to accumulate as much as they could.


Credible theories posit that one of the major reasons men accumulate wealth is to better attract women.



> You have a very skewed perspective.


I have a male perspective. You have obviously noticed that is different from your own, female, perspective. But that's just an outlier, right? It can't possibly mean that men and women aren't exactly the same in all ways.



> My first husband gave up a 6 figure income to go back to school to do what he wanted to do. It's not quite a fortune, but it's more than most people make. It did not phase me at all. I became the sole bread winner.


So, did your husband intend to earn significantly less than he used to permanently? Or was his plan to earn a similar amount, or even a larger amount, in a field that he enjoyed more?



> So you see, you haven't a clue.


Why so nasty? Does the idea that men and women are different upset you so much that you must attack anyone who holds it?



> You see, when they got married, she married him for who he was at that point in time.


And one of your other theories is that our past contributes nothing to who we are in the present? If you discovered that your husband was a practicing pedophile before he married you, would that upset you? Or would you just write it off as something that's in the past? How about if you learned that he was actually born a woman? Even if you can be logically consistent and claim that you have no interest in your husband's past, why must you insist that everyone share your ideals? Why not allow that some people have different priorities than you do?



> If it were true that money was the most important thing to women in generally, then no one but rich men would be married. When I go to Walmart I see tons of very poor couples with their children. Most people live pay check to pay check. Obviously money is not the most important thing to women. It's a stereo type used to insult women in general.


If you assume that sexual attraction is a binary condition that all women and men share equally, then you would be correct. But that's obviously nonsense. One particularly desirable class of woman would be Victoria Secret or Sports Illustrated Models. Tell me, how many of those have you seen strolling through WalMart with their poor husbands? Probably not many. Most of those kinds of women marry wealthy men.


----------



## LongWalk

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You mentioned that you agreed to all this guy's demands. Does that mean that you made memories with him doing certain sex acts that you refused to your husband?
> 
> Was there ever a time in your relationship with your H that you two shut yourselves away from everyone had had sex most of the time together?
> 
> Bottom line is if you did things with or gave time to this man that you did not do for your husband, that is a big problem too.


This is BS. Whatever happened before is none of your husband's bee's wax.

Your are pregnant? Tell your husband that you want to go to MC.


----------



## NobodySpecial

BronzeTorpedo said:


> Credible theories posit that one of the major reasons men accumulate wealth is to better attract women.


This has always baffled me. Men will use money to attract a certain type of woman, then be all butt sore when all that woman wanted was money. You reap what you sow.


----------



## NobodySpecial

LongWalk said:


> This is BS. Whatever happened before is none of your husband's bee's wax.


Not only that, the attitude to which you are replying is so destructive to the feelings of trust and safety that make GGG sexuality possible.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

NobodySpecial said:


> This has always baffled me. Men will use money to attract a certain type of woman, then be all butt sore when all that woman wanted was money. You reap what you sow.


A certain type of woman? Tell me, what woman do you know that has no opinion on wealth? In terms of wealth, the general view of 99% of women is that millionaire>steady earner>unsteady earner>bum.

Most men accept this. They simply ask that, once their wives have chosen them, to be loyal and not take off with a wealthier man. It's little different than men's preference for thin women over fat women. Once you've married a woman, you shouldn't remain on the prowl for a better looking option. You wouldn't advise a woman who attracted her husband, in large part, by being beautiful to just suck it up and accept him leaving her for a more beautiful woman, would you?


----------



## I Don't Know

If I were you H, what would bother me the most would be that you knew them both at the same time. I believe you even said you both had interest in each other (you and H) before you had a thing with the other guy. In essence you picked the other guy over him. To make it worse (in H's mind) the other guy was ONLY offringe sex. I bet he feels like he had to offer commitment and stability and emotional connection to be able to have sex with you. it makes him feel like he is less physically desirable than the other man. No one wants to feel like they are second place.


----------



## GusPolinski

NobodySpecial said:


> ...GGG sexuality...


:scratchhead:


----------



## NobodySpecial

BronzeTorpedo said:


> A certain type of woman? Tell me, what woman do you know that has no opinion on wealth?


Me? And everyone I know?



> In terms of wealth, the general view of 99% of women is that millionaire>steady earner>unsteady earner>bum.


Where do you get these figures? 



> Most men accept this. They simply ask that, once their wives have chosen them, to be loyal and not take off with a wealthier man.


LOL. Have fun with that, if that is what you want.


----------



## NobodySpecial

GusPolinski said:


> :scratchhead:


good, giving, game


----------



## GusPolinski

NobodySpecial said:


> good, giving, game


Ah. Thanks. I'd never seen/heard that terminology.


----------



## alexm

I Don't Know said:


> If I were you H, what would bother me the most would be that you knew them both at the same time. I believe you even said you both had interest in each other (you and H) before you had a thing with the other guy. In essence you picked the other guy over him. To make it worse (in H's mind) the other guy was ONLY offringe sex. I bet he feels like he had to offer commitment and stability and emotional connection to be able to have sex with you. it makes him feel like he is less physically desirable than the other man. No one wants to feel like they are second place.


This.

I already mentioned it, but I think some people tend to skip over some of my posts (they're usually long, and I don't blame them).

That said, there are often too many simplistic replies to threads like these. Person reads the original post, decides it's A, B or C, then goes with it. More often than some people see, it's none of those. It's D, E or F.

In this case, the BASE response is "OP's husband is a jealous moron" or "the past doesn't matter". It's automatically deemed on of "those" threads.

A few people tend to actually think about the post and the issue before jumping off the cliff - which is helpful to the OP, and the point of this place.

I don't believe this is a simple case of a jealous husband who doesn't want to believe his wife had sex before he came along. That's FAR too easy. I think it's plainly obvious that it's much more than that, and I Don't Know put it much better than I did.

The three of them knew each other. She wound up with the other guy for a fling and nothing more. It was implied it was only a fling at the time, so she knew. Meanwhile, future hubby likely already had an interest in OP at that time, yet nothing came of it until later on.

Where the problem lies is that OP's husband had no idea his future wife and this guy had a thing, and essentially had either more interest in that guy, or no interest in he, himself, at that time. Either way isn't good for him. No matter how you slice it, the other guy got chosen first, not him. It doesn't even matter if hubby is the better choice, he's second. And in this case, it wasn't even for an actual relationship, it was for a fling. Did OP and her hubby start off their relationship like this? An intense passion that resulted in steamy sex and not being able to keep her hands off him? Or did they do it the usual way - coffee date, movie, repeat? Sex on the first date, or the 10th? Did she want to take it slow with him and get to know him first, or did she (and he) feel the lust from day one? See what I'm getting at?

Add to that the fact that MOST people (not all) are not comfortable dating or marrying somebody who dated (or had a fling with) a mutual friend or acquaintance. Especially RIGHT before getting together with each other. I'd rather not know the person who had been intimate with my wife before me, thankyouverymuch. It's just weird, imo.

Did OP do anything wrong with all of this AT THE TIME? No, of course not. Which is where some of you are stopping the conversation - what she did beforehand is irrelevant. And it is. But this issue doesn't stop there, unfortunately.

IMO, OP should have divulged this information early on, if only out of respect. And not only when asked. It's situations like this one that often require some transparency early on in a relationship. And it's also exactly the type of thing that will almost certainly come out eventually.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

NobodySpecial said:


> Me? And everyone I know?


Interesting. So, in your opinion, George Clooney scored tons of women in SPITE of his fabulous wealth? Who knew?



> LOL. Have fun with that, if that is what you want.


I admit that a loyal wife is an outdated and quaint notion. But it doesn't change the fact that many men want loyal wives. With women such as yourself forging new paths into this brave new world, I'm sure most men will eventually realize that loyalty is rapidly becoming extinct. Just be patient.


----------



## I Don't Know

alexm said:


> This.
> 
> I already mentioned it, but I think some people tend to skip over some of my posts (they're usually long, and I don't blame them).
> 
> That said, there are often too many simplistic replies to threads like these. Person reads the original post, decides it's A, B or C, then goes with it. More often than some people see, it's none of those. It's D, E or F.
> 
> In this case, the BASE response is "OP's husband is a jealous moron" or "the past doesn't matter". It's automatically deemed on of "those" threads.
> 
> A few people tend to actually think about the post and the issue before jumping off the cliff - which is helpful to the OP, and the point of this place.
> 
> I don't believe this is a simple case of a jealous husband who doesn't want to believe his wife had sex before he came along. That's FAR too easy. I think it's plainly obvious that it's much more than that, and I Don't Know put it much better than I did.
> 
> The three of them knew each other. She wound up with the other guy for a fling and nothing more. It was implied it was only a fling at the time, so she knew. Meanwhile, future hubby likely already had an interest in OP at that time, yet nothing came of it until later on.
> 
> Where the problem lies is that OP's husband had no idea his future wife and this guy had a thing, and essentially had either more interest in that guy, or no interest in he, himself, at that time. Either way isn't good for him. No matter how you slice it, the other guy got chosen first, not him. It doesn't even matter if hubby is the better choice, he's second. And in this case, it wasn't even for an actual relationship, it was for a fling. Did OP and her hubby start off their relationship like this? An intense passion that resulted in steamy sex and not being able to keep her hands off him? Or did they do it the usual way - coffee date, movie, repeat? Sex on the first date, or the 10th? Did she want to take it slow with him and get to know him first, or did she (and he) feel the lust from day one? See what I'm getting at?
> 
> Add to that the fact that MOST people (not all) are not comfortable dating or marrying somebody who dated (or had a fling with) a mutual friend or acquaintance. Especially RIGHT before getting together with each other. I'd rather not know the person who had been intimate with my wife before me, thankyouverymuch. It's just weird, imo.
> 
> Did OP do anything wrong with all of this AT THE TIME? No, of course not. Which is where some of you are stopping the conversation - what she did beforehand is irrelevant. And it is. But this issue doesn't stop there, unfortunately.
> 
> IMO, OP should have divulged this information early on, if only out of respect. And not only when asked. It's situations like this one that often require some transparency early on in a relationship. And it's also exactly the type of thing that will almost certainly come out eventually.


I always read your posts Alex. I just wanted to touch on the point you made and emphasize the point about her choosing the other guy over her husband (in his mind). 

And really, when reading the OP's descriptions of the other guy, I don't think it's only in her H's mind. I think she WOULD have picked the other guy over him if Mr. Piercing Eyes hadn't moved away. That's certainly one of my main issues with past relationships. I don't truly know how or why they ended and the thought that "the one that got away" is still out there for my wife always lingers.


----------



## NobodySpecial

BronzeTorpedo said:


> Interesting. So, in your opinion, George Clooney scored tons of women in SPITE of his fabulous wealth? Who knew?


Huh. My husband does not want to "score" tons (or any) women. 



> I admit that a loyal wife is an outdated and quaint notion. But it doesn't change the fact that many men want loyal wives. With women such as yourself forging new paths into this brave new world, I'm sure most men will eventually realize that loyalty is rapidly becoming extinct. Just be patient.


Meh. I am grateful that my husband could not care less about where the money comes or loyalty. I am glad he cares about a loving, caring, interesting, hot wife. If I wanted that, I would not use money, if I were a guy. That's just us.


----------



## Thundarr

Emma24, will you please just ask your husband why he's acting mad or weird.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I Don't Know said:


> If I were you H, what would bother me the most would be that you knew them both at the same time. I believe you even said you both had interest in each other (you and H) before you had a thing with the other guy. In essence you picked the other guy over him. To make it worse (in H's mind) the other guy was ONLY offringe sex. I bet he feels like he had to offer commitment and stability and emotional connection to be able to have sex with you. it makes him feel like he is less physically desirable than the other man. No one wants to feel like they are second place.


If you switched this around.. NO WIFE WOULD want to be in these shoes either.. Oh my goodness..I could just hear how sensitive she would be, up in arms... if this happened with her husband, kissing photos sent in the mail .... like she is going to just sweep this under the rug.. LAUGHING :rofl:

Having sex with some HOT BABE for a full week.. *some old friend they both had*... *but she didn't want him*..meanwhile "Oh what a night " plays in his mind about her.. but no.. "OH WHAT A HOT 7 days, the bed sheets on fire! [email protected]#$"... he may have been wild about her.. and would have given anything....but she was moving on....any woman like that would also be *a threat *to the marriage.. 

To say the wife wouldn't feel anything here, or it's no big deal.. .. yeah I am snickering a bit..


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

NobodySpecial said:


> Huh. My husband does not want to "score" tons (or any) women.


I would hope not. He's married. But you've missed my point entirely. It wasn't about George Clooney's desire to score a lot. It was about his ability to do so.

In all likelihood, your husband has never been capable of dating a string of young, beautiful actresses and models. Few men are. George Clooney is. And it's not because he's poor. There's a reason you don't see many models pushing carts around WalMart.

Imagine that your husband had a twin brother. And before you started dating your husband, you met both of them at the same time. They look the same. They have the same personality. Same family, etc. The only difference between the two of them is that twin A earns 10X the income of twin B. If you're honest, you'll admit that you would be more attracted to the wealthier twin.


----------



## NobodySpecial

BronzeTorpedo said:


> I would hope not. He's married. But you've missed my point entirely. It wasn't about George Clooney's desire to score a lot. It was about his ability to do so.
> 
> In all likelihood, your husband has never been capable of dating a string of young, beautiful actresses and models. Few men are. George Clooney is. And it's not because he's poor. There's a reason you don't see many models pushing carts around WalMart.


So I stand by what I wrote in the first place. Want the right stuff, and you are more likely to get it. He didn't WANT young, beautiful actresses and models. He wanted GFs that he liked and cared about. And he never had any shortage of those.

If you want to buy nubile young things, by all means. But recognize that that is what you have done and that is what you get. Someone who does not want you. But your money.



> Imagine that your husband had a twin brother. And before you started dating your husband, you met both of them at the same time. They look the same. They have the same personality. Same family, etc. The only difference between the two of them is that twin A earns 10X the income of twin B. If you're honest, you'll admit that you would be more attracted to the wealthier twin.


Ah ah. Here it is. The "if you are honest" card. The truth of the matter is 2 the biggest jerk I ever dated were loaded. So it does not have the attraction for me that you think.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

NobodySpecial said:


> So I stand by what I wrote in the first place. Want the right stuff, and you are more likely to get it. He didn't WANT young, beautiful actresses and models. He wanted GFs that he liked and cared about. And he never had any shortage of those.


I'm so glad his life worked out so perfectly. His income is low enough to disqualify him from dating young, beautiful models and it turns out that he never wanted to date young, beautiful models. Of course, it's possible that you (or he) is rationalizing just a bit. "I never wanted to date Kate Upton. She's too pretty and her boobs are too big."



> If you want to buy nubile young things, by all means. But recognize that that is what you have done and that is what you get. Someone who does not want you. But your money.


Why so disrespectful of women? Why can't women just appreciate wealth without being soulless gold diggers who can't experience romantic emotions? Do you advise your attractive friends to have breast reduction surgery and never wear makeup so that their SO's will love them for their personalities, rather than their looks? Or do you recognize that there's nothing wrong with men appreciating physical beauty in prospective mates?



> Ah ah. Here it is. The "if you are honest" card. The truth of the matter is 2 the biggest jerk I ever dated were loaded. So it does not have the attraction for me that you think.


Of course the honesty card. I haven't gotten it yet. Now you're insisting that rich people are jerks? I've met plenty of poor jerks. In fact, I think wealth is probably independent of whether someone is a jerk. But, don't let common sense dispute your scientific experiment with N=2.

You should have been a book editor. Because the biggest book/movie of recent years was 50 Shades of Grey, where Christian Grey was a billionaire. But if you had just been able to insist that he should be a fast-food cook, think of how much more attractive millions of women would have found him! Gold!


----------



## larry.gray

*LittleDeer* said:


> Emma, there seems to be a lot of men in the world that have to stoop to denigrating women and putting them down for daring to be sexual. Take no notice, it's pure insecurity on their part.
> 
> Your husband is displaying the same behaviour.


And this is helpful to the OP in what way? 

She's here, he's not. Right or wrong, pointing out that out does nothing. One thing I'm sure about: if Emma takes that tack with her husband, things will be worse, not better. She's gotten some very good advice one the thread, I'd encourage her to pick that instead.


----------



## NobodySpecial

BronzeTorpedo said:


> I'm so glad his life worked out so perfectly. His income is low enough to disqualify him from dating young, beautiful models and it turns out that he never wanted to date young, beautiful models. Of course, it's possible that you (or he) is rationalizing just a bit. "I never wanted to date Kate Upton. She's too pretty and her boobs are too big."
> 
> 
> Why so disrespectful of women? Why can't women just appreciate wealth without being soulless gold diggers who can't experience romantic emotions? Do you advise your attractive friends to have breast reduction surgery and never wear makeup so that their SO's will love them for their personalities, rather than their looks? Or do you recognize that there's nothing wrong with men appreciating physical beauty in prospective mates?
> 
> 
> Of course the honesty card. I haven't gotten it yet. Now you're insisting that rich people are jerks? I've met plenty of poor jerks. In fact, I think wealth is probably independent of whether someone is a jerk. But, don't let common sense dispute your scientific experiment with N=2.
> 
> You should have been a book editor. Because the biggest book/movie of recent years was 50 Shades of Grey, where Christian Grey was a billionaire. But if you had just been able to insist that he should be a fast-food cook, think of how much more attractive millions of women would have found him! Gold!


All I am saying is that people are not all the same. Seek what you actually want, and you are more likely to get it. Take it or leave it.


----------



## norajane

Actually, she hasn't been here in a while, larry. I'm still waiting for a reply explaining how pictures of her kissing someone could have been taken without her knowledge in her house.


----------



## Kahlil Gibran

norajane said:


> Actually, she hasn't been here in a while, larry. I'm still waiting for a reply explaining how pictures of her kissing someone could have been taken without her knowledge in her house.


And who sent them to her husband and why.


----------



## larry.gray

I don't recall her saying where they were taken. But it's a long thread and I'm not rereading the whole thing


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## norajane

larry.gray said:


> I don't recall her saying where they were taken. But it's a long thread and I'm not rereading the whole thing


She didn't say specifically. But since the ONLY time they were together was during their weeklong tryst at home, seems that's the only option. Which makes the whole story sound fishy and does not add up in the least.

Never fear, I'm sure the thread will go on anyway!


----------



## I Don't Know

SimplyAmorous said:


> If you switched this around.. NO WIFE WOULD want to be in these shoes either.. Oh my goodness..I could just hear how sensitive she would be, up in arms... if this happened with her husband, kissing photos sent in the mail .... like she is going to just sweep this under the rug.. LAUGHING :rofl:
> 
> Having sex with some HOT BABE for a full week.. *some old friend they both had*... *but she didn't want him*..meanwhile "Oh what a night " plays in his mind about her.. but no.. "OH WHAT A HOT 7 days, the bed sheets on fire! [email protected]#$"... he may have been wild about her.. and would have given anything....but she was moving on....any woman like that would also be *a threat *to the marriage..
> 
> To say the wife wouldn't feel anything here, or it's no big deal.. .. yeah I am snickering a bit..


It is easy to say this until you're in the situation. Granted most of my RJ is baseless assumptions and fears on my own part, but there is SOMETHING that triggers me now in a way I've never been triggered before. I had a friend in high school who was so jealous of his girlfriend having kissed another guy. At the time I thought he was crazy for caring. I still do, just like I'm crazy to let past relationships bother me, but I understand now that it wasn't something he could stop feeling. It mattered to him for some reason.

These threads are always full of people who say they wouldn't care if it were them. And no example you can give would affect them in the least. Great! I'm happy for you. But I also know that's really easy to say when it's not your reality.


----------



## Thundarr

I Don't Know said:


> It is easy to say this until you're in the situation. Granted most of my RJ is baseless assumptions and fears on my own part, but there is SOMETHING that triggers me now in a way I've never been triggered before. I had a friend in high school who was so jealous of his girlfriend having kissed another guy. At the time I thought he was crazy for caring. I still do, just like I'm crazy to let past relationships bother me, but I understand now that it wasn't something he could stop feeling. It mattered to him for some reason.
> 
> These threads are always full of people who say they wouldn't care if it were them. And no example you can give would affect them in the least. Great! I'm happy for you. But I also know that's really easy to say when it's not your reality.


I imagine RJ can be like many other emotions. I doesn't help so much to tell someone who has anxiety that they shouldn't be nervous or someone who worries that they shouldn't be stressed. It's still a struggle. That being said, we still try to say something that helps. I remember your thread and hope things are improved.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I Don't Know said:


> These threads are always full of people who say they wouldn't care if it were them. And no example you can give would affect them in the least. Great! I'm happy for you. But I also know that's really easy to say when it's not your reality.


True... men and woman, we have FEELINGS...(well hopefully we do!).....I often get the notion half of the human race doesn't think men should express theirs ....No wonder men "close up"...

When we love..we often love deeply.. Frankly.. would we NOT want this..... part of the PAIN is also the PASSION for another...

Then we have the other side...."my Husband wants to see me have sex with another man - he's not jealous!"... something is wrong there also..

It is Healthy / HUMAN if you have these emotions.. would we rather be married to a robot.. a stone?? 

Also would any of us really stay with someone if we KNEW we were 2nd best.. not saying this is what is happening here at all....but the wife has her role here in explaining this... to reassure her husband .....silence & just dropping it... it just wouldn't be enough.. she will need to push through his acting out....give him some time & understanding too... *because she does love him*.. he'll come around.... unless she wants to start throwing "insecurity darts" at him... that will just further alienate the 2 of them..


----------



## I Don't Know

They are Thundarr, thanks. Some days are better than others. 

I do appreciate that people try to say helpful things and be encouraging. It's just that threads like this always have a handful of people who seem to answer any "how would you feel if..." question with "wouldn't care." Maybe they wouldn't, but I believe that is easy to say when it's not happening. I don't think ANYONE want's to feel like they are 1st runner up and only got to be Miss America because the winner left town. And I think that's exactly what this OP's H thinks he is.


----------



## I Don't Know

OP if you're still here. When your H asks, and he will, if this guy had a bigger penis. The answer is NO! Followed by laughter and holding up your pinky.


----------



## SunnyT

Doesn't anyone else have a nice/pleasant/sexy memory of a past lover? One that wasn't considered as a "forever" relationship? An awesome sexy time that just is what it is? 

You aren't wrong for having that great week while you were single.... but ya, you should have mentioned who it was since y'all know each other. 

Ya, it might be weird for H knowing the guy. THAT is his problem. I think all you can do is let him stew and simmer on it.... be positive, reassuring, praising of his studliness, etc.... Focus on you and your pregnancy, and be nice to him because this is hurtful info to him whether we think it should be or not. HE has to figure out how to get over it. 

Give it time.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I Don't Know said:


> OP if you're still here. When your H asks, and he will, if this guy had a bigger penis. The answer is NO! Followed by laughter and holding up your pinky.


That would be dismissed as a lie by the H. You don't spend a week having almost nonstop sex with someone unless that person is rocking your world. Trying to diminish the quality of the sex would be seen as patronizing to the H as well as a bold faced lie. 

If true, we know the OP. Would have chosen the fling-man over her H if both were side by side and they were all single. It's pretty obvious. Now was he guy marriage material? No idea.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

SunnyT said:


> Doesn't anyone else have a nice/pleasant/sexy memory of a past lover? One that wasn't considered as a "forever" relationship? An awesome sexy time that just is what it is?
> 
> You aren't wrong for having that great week while you were single.... but ya, you should have mentioned who it was since y'all know each other.
> 
> Ya, it might be weird for H knowing the guy. THAT is his problem. I think all you can do is let him stew and simmer on it.... be positive, reassuring, praising of his studliness, etc.... Focus on you and your pregnancy, and be nice to him because this is hurtful info to him whether we think it should be or not. HE has to figure out how to get over it.
> 
> Give it time.


Yes, very fond past memories that I periodically reminisce about once in a blue moon. But my spouse and last GF never knew each other, hung out, were friends nor did I choose one over the other. There was zero overlap between them, which is different from the OP.


----------



## Decorum

alexm said:


> Ah, this again. Always an interesting discussion..
> 
> First, you did nothing wrong, and I think you know this. Your husband may be acting like you did, however, and that's the problem. It's HIS problem.
> 
> Now, that's not to say he's completely out of bounds about his feelings. What he's doing wrong is putting his negativity on you, where he should be keeping it to himself.
> 
> I empathize with your husband, to a degree, and I DO see how it bothers him.
> 
> The issue, to him, is that the three of you knew each other at one point. I don't mean you all hung out together and were friends (maybe you were) just that he knows who he is. This is always a difficult thing to reconcile - that your wife/husband had a "thing" with somebody you both know. Most people prefer to not know their partners exes.
> 
> He also likely knows that this guy wasn't looking for a relationship/marriage, that he was focused on work only, and therefore any woman he was with (which included you) would have known that, and therefore it would have been solely based around sex.
> 
> So the unfortunate outcome of this, is that he knows the woman who is now his wife had a fling, with somebody he knows/knew, and that, more importantly, his wife entered into a relationship that was solely based on attraction and sex and that had no future.
> 
> Add to that the fact that he was around at that time, and VERY LIKELY had some interest in you, even if he didn't actually show it.
> 
> And last, as he likely knew that this guy was not in it for the long haul (work was more important, had to move, etc.) he's left wondering that, if that wasn't the case with this guy, would you have ended up with him, instead of himself?
> 
> His feelings could be further exacerbated by his memories of how you reacted when this fling ended, if he was around to see them/hear about them. If you were genuinely sad that this guy moved away and you were in the dumps for a little while, then to him, he's left wondering if he's "second fiddle", and if you would have even started to date him if the guy hadn't been so focused on his career.
> 
> And to even FURTHER his paranoia, it's likely crossed his mind what will happen if and when this guy shows back up again. It's entirely possible (and maybe even likely) that he will contact you at some point in the future, even just to say hello and catch up.
> 
> I don't think there's any doubt that you love your husband and that he has a real concern to be worried, however, your description of this guy is rather glowing. It's clear there was an intense physical attraction to him - which is okay, of course - but it IS somewhat dangerous to your marriage, should he ever pop up again. Especially when you see your husband day in, day out, the good and the bad.
> 
> I imagine my wife, and everybody's wife (or husband) has had a fling or a relationship with somebody they had an intense physical or sexual connection to, and that they will always fondly remember this person and the intensity of the relationship, or fling, or whatever. The people we marry are often a solid combination of everything we want, a jack-of-all-trades, whereas guys like this one are not - they are only one thing (for example, hot). This guy wouldn't commit to you, yet you still had a fling anyway (which is okay), but it was clearly only based around one thing.
> 
> Just remember, if and when this guy pops up again, ignore, ignore, ignore. Even if he's married, it doesn't matter. He will always be perceived as a threat to your husband, rightly or wrongly, and he has no place in your life any more for this sole reason.
> 
> *ETA, thinking about it further, if this guy does show up again in the future (married or not) he IS a threat. Reason being - if two people have a relationship, a fling, or even a one night stand with somebody else, and it ends for any number of reasons, then it's over. You were not friends, you were relationship/sex partners. There's really no going back to "friends" after that, especially when one or both people are married. If either of you look up the other sometime down the road, that means that one person is on the other persons mind for some reason.
> 
> To me, there's really only one reason, and it may not always be overt, but it exists. I mean, we all have memories of some person we had an intense attraction to that isn't our current partner. I do. I'm sure your husband does, too. But they're gone now, and they're no longer a part of our lives - unless somewhere in the back of our minds we want them to be.
> 
> It's one thing to do this with old friends we haven't seen in 20 years, especially on Facebook, but it's another thing entirely to do this with old relationships, casual or otherwise.
> 
> There's never any good from two people who once had a relationship "catching up", unless you're both single. Because deep down, that's the real reason one person contacts the other. They once had something, so they're familiar with it, and maybe even miss it. And hey, "if she's single too, maybe we can reconnect. I'm going to see how she's doing!". There truly is no other reason for it.
> 
> So, again, best thing to do is that if and when he ever contacts you again, no matter what you think his reasons are, do not engage him in any way, as long as you are married. Not even a "sorry, I'm married" response. If he sends you an email or looks you up on Facebook, simply ignore.


This is how my wife and I would want to be treated by our partner in this situation.

Alexm, you express yourself so very well, Thank you!


----------



## Emma24

alexm said:


> This.
> 
> I already mentioned it, but I think some people tend to skip over some of my posts (they're usually long, and I don't blame them).
> 
> That said, there are often too many simplistic replies to threads like these. Person reads the original post, decides it's A, B or C, then goes with it. More often than some people see, it's none of those. It's D, E or F.
> 
> In this case, the BASE response is "OP's husband is a jealous moron" or "the past doesn't matter". It's automatically deemed on of "those" threads.
> 
> A few people tend to actually think about the post and the issue before jumping off the cliff - which is helpful to the OP, and the point of this place.
> 
> I don't believe this is a simple case of a jealous husband who doesn't want to believe his wife had sex before he came along. That's FAR too easy. I think it's plainly obvious that it's much more than that, and I Don't Know put it much better than I did.
> 
> The three of them knew each other. She wound up with the other guy for a fling and nothing more. It was implied it was only a fling at the time, so she knew. Meanwhile, future hubby likely already had an interest in OP at that time, yet nothing came of it until later on.
> 
> Where the problem lies is that OP's husband had no idea his future wife and this guy had a thing, and essentially had either more interest in that guy, or no interest in he, himself, at that time. Either way isn't good for him. No matter how you slice it, the other guy got chosen first, not him. It doesn't even matter if hubby is the better choice, he's second. And in this case, it wasn't even for an actual relationship, it was for a fling. Did OP and her hubby start off their relationship like this? An intense passion that resulted in steamy sex and not being able to keep her hands off him? Or did they do it the usual way - coffee date, movie, repeat? Sex on the first date, or the 10th? Did she want to take it slow with him and get to know him first, or did she (and he) feel the lust from day one? See what I'm getting at?
> 
> Add to that the fact that MOST people (not all) are not comfortable dating or marrying somebody who dated (or had a fling with) a mutual friend or acquaintance. Especially RIGHT before getting together with each other. I'd rather not know the person who had been intimate with my wife before me, thankyouverymuch. It's just weird, imo.
> 
> Did OP do anything wrong with all of this AT THE TIME? No, of course not. Which is where some of you are stopping the conversation - what she did beforehand is irrelevant. And it is. But this issue doesn't stop there, unfortunately.
> 
> IMO, OP should have divulged this information early on, if only out of respect. And not only when asked. It's situations like this one that often require some transparency early on in a relationship. And it's also exactly the type of thing that will almost certainly come out eventually.


But i chose my husband to be my life partner, with whom I wanted to share my life with.

Not the guy I had a fling with.

And had I told my husband before he would not have married me :'( :'( :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Emma24 - I've only flitted around this post, but it seems very sad and I'm sorry for your situation. I know from my perspective it would be very difficult to stomach someone sending photos - even just kisses - of my wife. It would make me wonder what was going on and why they were sent. Any normal, protective, guy would feel this way. Also - your honest description of ANY former lover can be very emasculating for a man - regardless of what some women may believe. To know that you are submissive to him - he must assume you are the same with others - and we know other guys can be pretty craven... so the mind goes to very bad places. Right or wrong, his pain and any lashing out is a direct reflection of what he feels emotionally for you, and bizarrely his withholding of affection is the inverse of what he wants but he knows it hurts you. It is a terrible punishment for a submissive person to be denied the attention - more so than a non-submissive person can probably understand. So he is very cruel to do that. I still don't understand why anyone would want to send those photos unless they wanted to cause this trouble... to what end? To get to you and take you away? I would assume so and he probably does as well. So you are in a bind - any reassurance could be assumed to be pandering... and honesty can be hurtful. Especially if he knows someone is out there trying to take away his bride. Sorry i have no answer except to keep telling him you desire his love and attention and no one else's. But I don't know if that is good advice or bad... I am at a loss to understand and process this fully. Good luck and please tell us more so we better understand this.


I can completely understand his feelings. I am at fault and I regret my actions.

It came before my husband and he is miserable over it. 

Whoever took the photos was probably at the airport because he kissed me there. He had dragged me along because he wanted to see me for the last time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emma24

My husband has been improving a little bit. He is no longer shouting at me or being rude.

He also shared his feelings with me and he suspects its either 'him' or someone who is playing mischief.

I have tried my best to reassure him. His birthday is coming in two days I cant bear to see him in this state.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gonecrazy

Hi Emma,
I have read most of the posts here but not all of them so I might not make sense here. There are two things that I want to add to what most people have said on here. Firstly, the photos. Where were they taken, at what angle, what access point are they taken from and who would have known the time and location of you two???

Who sent them? If it was one of his friends, he would have come forward. One of your friends, I doubt it. Another woman who is interested in your husband, maybe. The most likely person is your lover. He clearly uses women and knows how to control them and has little respect for them. Took some photos so that if he ever wanted to catch up he could send the photos in advance to stir the pot to increase his chances. That's thinking ahead, but you know what I think is more likely here.

You have grown bored of your marriage and went to see this guy again. He took photos. Is that the truth? You want us to help sell your BS story to your husband. To me that is the most likely reason. There is obvious motive here and it is to separate you two. WHY? I think you f$%ked up. Just my opinion.

Secondly, regarding past being your past. Most people end up being married because past partners didn't cut it. A man marries a women because he is the best man that she has had. This is different and this is how I see it. This man owned you for a week, and you were totally spellbound by him. The only reason your husband has got a look in is not because he is the better man, because you could not have what you wanted and he is second best. He gets this guys leftovers.

No man wants someone else s reject. This man used you and you loved it. Your husband will never have that. Your lover got the best of you and kicked you aside for his career. He valued you less than your husband does and you have more passion for him. If you were my wife and we had no kids I personally would leave you, only because I could not take that kind of hit to my fragile self esteem. It looks like your husband feels the same.

If you have cheated, please just be honest with him and let him go. Don't be selfish because you can't have what you really want. If you have been faithful, you have some work to do. He needs to know that he is the better man. That you want him more than anything in the world. That this other bloke was just a thing of the past. Go and get the dna test. Show him that HE is your world now, and that this other guy is just a distant memory.
Good luck


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## nuclearnightmare

Emma24:

I advocate strongly for being completely honest with a future mate about one's sexual past. It IS their business; all of it.
so I'd say yes it was wrong not to mention the fling to your husband-to-be. 

nonetheless am struggling to judge you very harshly 'cause it's so understandable why you wouldn't want to go there, why anyone wouldn't. unless your husband had directly questioned you on it or if the guy had become a permanent part of your circle of friends as a couple, or etc. 

but to understand things a little better, it sounds like the sexual attraction you had for this guy was stronger than anything you have ever felt for your husband. which is not to say you're not attracted to your husband. but the way you describe it those feelings were much more intense for the other guy.

that being the case when you have discussed this with your husband have you described it to him as you being "insanely attracted" to the guy"; as you "getting lost in his eyes" and fumbling with your words etc. have you really laid things out to your husband the way you have to us, here??


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## alexm

Emma24 said:


> But i chose my husband to be my life partner, with whom I wanted to share my life with.
> 
> Not the guy I had a fling with.
> 
> And had I told my husband before he would not have married me :'( :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really don't think you did anything wrong, I promise. Not on purpose, anyway.

The issue is in how this is perceived by your husband.

- the three of you knew each other at one point. Friends, acquaintances, whatever, it doesn't matter. He knew who this guy was, period.

- you had a fling with this other guy. Your soon-to-be-husband had no idea until recently, well after marriage.

- this fling, by your own admission to your husband, was short term only, with no chance of long-term, marriage, etc.

- you then went on to date your husband, and eventually marry him.

So far, so good. No big deal from your perspective, and I don't blame you.

How he likely sees it:

- you had a sex only fling with a guy he knew right before you started dating him, _which he only recently found out about_

- he very likely had some interest in you during this time. Whether or not he ever showed you this interest at the time is irrelevant. He at least found your attractive, and perhaps more

- he now knows that his wife, the woman who he wined and dined and romanced and fell in love with, and vice versa, hopped into bed with another man simply because she found him attractive. In other words, this guy didn't have to do any heavy lifting, or "work" to get the ultimate prize. Meanwhile, you may very well have been on his mind at that exact period of time, and he was interested in getting to know you better, dating you, whatever.

Again, you did nothing wrong. Your husband wasn't on your radar at that time. That's not your fault. However, the perception it gives to your husband is just that - he wasn't on your radar at that time. Furthermore, at a time when he was single, and you were single, and he may have already started eyeballing you, you instead opted for a crazy week of sex with somebody you both knew.

Through NO fault of your own (and I mean that), his perception of his wife has now changed. But his perceptions are completely legitimate. Why? Because you didn't afford him the opportunity x-number of years ago to formulate an accurate perception of you. Rather, you purposefully chose to portray yourself in a way that YOU thought would keep him around, removing his ability to make a properly informed decision on whether you were a suitable mate for HIM.

Now, you bring up an interesting point - that you don't think he would have married you if you had told him.

And all of a sudden, we're now in dangerous territory, aren't we? Because this is exactly the point some of us here are trying to make - not knowing important details that hinder our abilities to make important choices in our lives, especially when it comes to relationships.

When two people start dating, it's human nature to show only the good side of ones self until we're comfortable with each other. We naturally go "the extra mile", and sometimes even do things we don't normally do, or will continue to do 6, 12 or 18 months down the road. Unfortunately, this also usually includes hiding the things we don't think our mates will like about us. It's a natural defense, and people tend to justify hiding (or sometimes even lying about) things that we THINK will deter our partners.

But more often than not, it's incredibly disingenuous of ourselves to make assumptions like that. We have therefore judged our partners and perhaps even questioned their character, to the point where we decide that "if I tell him/her about this, he'll dump me for sure". You thereby take away his/her right to make an informed decision on whether or not you are a suitable partner for him.

And the reality is that this behavior is borne out of selfishness. Because YOU want him, you purposefully remove certain (sometimes important) areas of your life and his ability to judge - yes, judge.

It is very likely that he is more upset with you for not mentioning this sooner - not the actual situation, believe it or not. Because, as I said, it changes his perception of you. Whereas if you were up front about this way back when, there IS no perception of you TO change.

And for the record, I truly hope you didn't tell your husband that (that he wouldn't have married you if he knew), as that is highly insulting to him.


*ETA - I've tried to think about how I would handle this situation if I were in his shoes, in terms of if the woman I was dating had had a fling with somebody we both knew right before I started dating her. Because it hasn't happened to me (that I know of!), it's difficult to know how I would react, but, I honestly think that it would only matter to me if the woman showed any other reasons to not continue having a relationship with. Yes, I would imagine it would be awkward to know the girl I was dating had been with a mutual acquaintance. If this person was still around (same circles, workplace, whatever), then it might very well be a deal-breaker for me. In your case, the guy left the city (country?) and was gone, and still is gone. Or more accurately, he is no longer a part of your life (or your husbands) in one way or the other. Sure, he may reappear at some point down the road, but he wasn't around during the courting period of your relationship, and you two are now married, therefore you know (or should know) that if he does pop up at some point, that he is no longer a part of your life, period. Ignore ignore ignore.

See, I'm not in the same boat, however, I see my wife's ex a few times a week (they have kids together). It's not the same thing - they had an actual relationship - but nonetheless, here is a man that I have contact with who has been just as intimate with my wife as I am, at one point. And that's something that's in the back of most people's minds when they are in situations like this. I don't ever dwell on that fact, but every now and again, it just pops in my head "he had sex with my wife at one point" or "he and my wife were once in love" etc etc etc. It's stupid, but it's there, and it's something I don't think anybody ever wants to ever think about. We KNOW our spouses were with other people at some point. We just don't particularly ever want to be faced with the reality of it and would prefer to keep it as far back in our minds as possible.


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## Married but Happy

Emma24 said:


> And had I told my husband before he would not have married me :'( :'( :'(


As alexm said, it's complicated. However, what you said indicates you knew you had to deceive your husband to get married. Now that he's found out, he's understandably angry at the deception and lie of omission, because what happened DOES matter to him. I hope he gets over it, for your sake, but it may continue to - occasionally - be an issue for him.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *Emma24 said*: *But i chose my husband to be my life partner, with whom I wanted to share my life with.
> 
> Not the guy I had a fling with*.


 ....but the reality was.. you didn't have the choice to be with the hot fling, he made it clear he was leaving...and you accepted 1 week of giving yourself to him.. Many women sleep with men HOPING to win their hearts.... none of this was going on...you didn't wish he could have been there for you, that he stayed?? DId you mourn his leaving at all ? 

What if he wanted you... would you say the same..back then? Probably best to not answer this.... 

None of us want to feel 2nd best.. it's one thing to have a CRUSH.. but when you GIVE YOURSELF to another, this speaks volumes.. Had you not went there.. it wouldn't be as crushing to your husband.. 



Plan 9 from OS said:


> *That would be dismissed as a lie by the H. You don't spend a week having almost nonstop sex with someone unless that person is rocking your world. Trying to diminish the quality of the sex would be seen as patronizing to the H as well as a bold faced lie.
> 
> If true, we know the OP. Would have chosen the fling-man over her H if both were side by side and they were all single. It's pretty obvious. Now was he guy marriage material? No idea*.


I think most women would have chosen the Hot guy... come on [email protected]#$ 

Which really she did at that time....her Husband was just HER FRIEND (friend zoned )... I'm guessing she always knew her H had a thing for her...(us women know!).....so she would never tell him anything about this week with their friend... like she might have shared with a girlfriend or two... 

Although I would not have put myself in the situation to sleep with someone who was going to walk away ... because *I know* it would have ripped my heart out, my emotions would have been all over the place, then I would have hated myself for doing it - and hated him for leaving.. ... nor would I think it's fair to the man I would someday marry if I had all these HOT memories of some Joe Blow who just wanted to get his rocks off..

I asked my H how he would feel being in this situation, he would be NON TOO HAPPY about it.. it would HURT HIM BADLY.. ..


> *SunnyT said*:* Doesn't anyone else have a nice/pleasant/sexy memory of a past lover? One that wasn't considered as a "forever" relationship? An awesome sexy time that just is what it is?
> 
> You aren't wrong for having that great week while you were single.... but ya, you should have mentioned who it was since y'all know each other.*


 but sometimes there are ramifications..



> Ya, it might be weird for H knowing the guy.* THAT is his problem.* I think all you can do is let him stew and simmer on it.... be positive, reassuring, praising of his studliness, etc.... Focus on you and your pregnancy, and be nice to him because this is hurtful info to him whether we think it should be or not. HE has to figure out how to get over it.
> 
> Give it time.


 I disagree that it's HIS Problem, if she loves her Husband, she will not see it this way.. *it is THEIR problem* to work out.. and overcome together.. 

If you love someone, you will want to do all you can to reassure them... if she truly regrets.. this will go a long way... but she may just be saying this to make him feel better too.. only she knows her own heart..

He has a right to his feelings, and if she goes at him like this is all on him, she deserved to have her sex filled hot week long romp with Joe Blow.. no regrets -I'd do it again if I was single & had that opportunity... that's what women do!! He will never look upon her the same way again.. if that attitude comes forth.. . 

Of course if he is the type of man Joe BLOW was, then he shouldn't be too hard on her..


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## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> But i chose my husband to be my life partner, with whom I wanted to share my life with.
> 
> Not the guy I had a fling with.
> 
> And had I told my husband before he would not have married me :'( :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No you didn't. At least be honest with yourself. There was no choice between the fling guy and your H. Fling guy told you up front that he did not choose you for a relationship, yet you "honeymooned" they guy for a week. If your husband has a rational mind, he will know that between the two of them, you had no choice to make and he also knows that you are capable of going into a lust filled frenzy knowing up front that there will be no relationship with the guy you had gobs of sex with in a very short period of time.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not judging this in either way. However, it helps neither you nor your husband if you don't assess the situation honestly. I would be remiss if I allowed you to rewrite history in your thread. It would only make your job harder to patch up this spat.


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## Plan 9 from OS

nuclearnightmare said:


> Emma24:
> 
> I advocate strongly for being completely honest with a future mate about one's sexual past. It IS their business; all of it.
> so I'd say yes it was wrong not to mention the fling to your husband-to-be.
> 
> nonetheless am struggling to judge you very harshly 'cause it's so understandable why you wouldn't want to go there, why anyone wouldn't. unless your husband had directly questioned you on it or if the guy had become a permanent part of your circle of friends as a couple, or etc.
> 
> but to understand things a little better, *it sounds like the sexual attraction you had for this guy was stronger than anything you have ever felt for your husband. which is not to say you're not attracted to your husband. but the way you describe it those feelings were much more intense for the other guy.*
> 
> that being the case when you have discussed this with your husband have you described it to him as you being "insanely attracted" to the guy"; as you "getting lost in his eyes" and fumbling with your words etc. have you really laid things out to your husband the way you have to us, here??


Most likely this is what her husband would be thinking. How could someone get her all so easily while he had to go through the dating process. Circles back around to bad boy vs nice guy. OP is a classic case of being susceptible to intense attraction to bad boys.


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## Emma24

Plan 9 from OS said:


> No you didn't. At least be honest with yourself. There was no choice between the fling guy and your H. Fling guy told you up front that he did not choose you for a relationship, yet you "honeymooned" they guy for a week. If your husband has a rational mind, he will know that between the two of them, you had no choice to make and he also knows that you are capable of going into a lust filled frenzy knowing up front that there will be no relationship with the guy you had gobs of sex with in a very short period of time.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I'm not judging this in either way. However, it helps neither you nor your husband if you don't assess the situation honestly. I would be remiss if I allowed you to rewrite history in your thread. It would only make your job harder to patch up this spat.


I dont care about that. My present is my husband and not that fling guy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I Don't Know

Plan 9 from OS said:


> That would be dismissed as a lie by the H. You don't spend a week having almost nonstop sex with someone unless that person is rocking your world. Trying to diminish the quality of the sex would be seen as patronizing to the H as well as a bold faced lie.
> 
> If true, we know the OP. Would have chosen the fling-man over her H if both were side by side and they were all single. It's pretty obvious. Now was he guy marriage material? No idea.


Yeah, I was just kidding. But you know it's coming.


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## Married but Happy

Emma24 said:


> I dont care about that. My present is my husband and not that fling guy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's a problem. You may not care, but your husband _does_. And it may be enough that he'll decide to divorce you over it. So, you should care, at least enough to help him resolve this issue in some way that he can live with.


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## I Don't Know

Emma24 said:


> I dont care about that. My present is my husband and not that fling guy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would you care if you felt like your husband would rather be with someone else but couldn't have them and settled for you?


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## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> I dont care about that. My present is my husband and not that fling guy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Try some empathy. You find out that your H might have had a deeper connection with another woman prior to you on a deeper level than he ever felt for you. If your husband would tell you "I'm here with you now, doesn't that count?" or "I chose you in the end" when he clearly had no choice to make over this other girl, would you be cool with that?


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## Emma24

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Try some empathy. You find out that your H might have had a deeper connection with another woman prior to you on a deeper level than he ever felt for you. If your husband would tell you "I'm here with you now, doesn't that count?" or "I chose you in the end" when he clearly had no choice to make over this other girl, would you be cool with that?


People have relationships/flings with many people but in the end they choose 1 special person.

I chose my husband not because I had no choice, its because I loved him and considered him for companionship.

Even if I dated that guy, if he treated him shabbily, used me more than he before, I would have dumped him no matter what.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nucking Futs

Emma24 said:


> People have relationships/flings with many people but in the end they choose 1 special person.
> 
> I chose my husband not because I had no choice, its because I loved him and considered him for companionship.
> 
> Even if I dated that guy, if he treated him shabbily, used me more than he before, I would have dumped him no matter what.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're still not getting it, and you stand a good chance of losing your marriage if you don't wrap your head around the concepts you've been provided here and start empathizing with your husband.

It doesn't matter what you think about your fling with the guy. It doesn't matter whether you believe you would have married that guy if he had asked you or not. What matters is what your husband thinks. You've been given plenty of help in this regard but you just keep rejecting it. Stop rejecting it, embrace it, and use it to re-assure your husband.

And by the way, don't tell your husband you married him for companionship. People get dogs for that.


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## D.H Mosquito

Emma24 said:


> My husband has been improving a little bit. He is no longer shouting at me or being rude.
> 
> He also shared his feelings with me and he suspects its either 'him' or someone who is playing mischief.
> 
> I have tried my best to reassure him. His birthday is coming in two days I cant bear to see him in this state.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At least things are returning civil again, now the challenge for you if what you are saying is true and no contact with your lover since is fireproofing your marriage make him feel he is number 1 by choice and not the best of what's left, you may not like what i've written but that's how some men and myself see things and as his birthday is coming up spoil him in and out the bedroom, both of you have a common foe to your marriage you need to have each others backs as your ex or one of his friends has gotten a copy of that and perhaps testing how easy it is to shake you apart for the easy pickings or married but up for it anyway and so far a little pic and a not revealed ex has almost destroyed things for you both, act like a couple and fight the world as a couple


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## Emma24

D.H Mosquito said:


> At least things are returning civil again, now the challenge for you if what you are saying is true and no contact with your lover since is fireproofing your marriage make him feel he is number 1 by choice and not the best of what's left, you may not like what i've written but that's how some men and myself see things and as his birthday is coming up spoil him in and out the bedroom, both of you have a common foe to your marriage you need to have each others backs as your ex or one of his friends has gotten a copy of that and perhaps testing how easy it is to shake you apart for the easy pickings or married but up for it anyway and so far a little pic and a not revealed ex has almost destroyed things for you both, act like a couple and fight the world as a couple


Thanks. Any other ideas how can I make him a lot more special on.his birthday?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedDude

GusPolinski said:


> Ah. Thanks. I'd never seen/heard that terminology.


Thank goodness someone answered that...I've never heard that one either
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> People have relationships/flings with many people but in the end they choose 1 special person.
> 
> I chose my husband not because I had no choice, its because I loved him and considered him for companionship.
> 
> Even if I dated that guy, if he treated him shabbily, used me more than he before, I would have dumped him no matter what.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again, you're not being honest with yourself. If the fling guy came to you at the end of your sexcapades and told you he changed his mind about focusing on his career and that he wanted to date you AND stay close to you, would you have taken him up on that offer? If you answer "yes" in this hypothetical (and I know you would say YES), from that point on is idle speculation because you have no idea if the relationship would have taken off or fizzled.

You deflected this question the last time, so I ask it again. Turn back the clock. Let's assume that you met the fling guy and your husband for the first time on the same day, and that you got the chance to get to know both during the friends/feeling each other out phase - which one would you have chosen to date? You cannot think about yourself as you are today, you need to go back in time to when you were younger and when you were still looking for that guy to have a meaningful relationship with. If you can honestly answer that you would have chosen your husband over the fling guy, then that's awesome. Unfortunately, my instincts tell me that this would not be the case.


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## Emma24

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Again, you're not being honest with yourself. If the fling guy came to you at the end of your sexcapades and told you he changed his mind about focusing on his career and that he wanted to date you AND stay close to you, would you have taken him up on that offer? If you answer "yes" in this hypothetical (and I know you would say YES), from that point on is idle speculation because you have no idea if the relationship would have taken off or fizzled.
> 
> You deflected this question the last time, so I ask it again. Turn back the clock. Let's assume that you met the fling guy and your husband for the first time on the same day, and that you got the chance to get to know both during the friends/feeling each other out phase - which one would you have chosen to date? You cannot think about yourself as you are today, you need to go back in time to when you were younger and when you were still looking for that guy to have a meaningful relationship with. If you can honestly answer that you would have chosen your husband over the fling guy, then that's awesome. Unfortunately, my instincts tell me that this would not be the case.


So what do you want to say? That I dont love my husband?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

Emma24 said:


> So what do you want to say? That I dont love my husband?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I read the whole thread.

I have two questions:
Is English your first language?
Did you tell your husband in a similar or the same fashion as us?

Yes, I know you said so to Elegirl, but it was still somewhat hazy.


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## Emma24

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I read the whole thread.
> 
> I have two questions:
> Is English your first language?
> Did you tell your husband in a similar or the same fashion as us?
> 
> Yes, I know you said so to Elegirl, but it was still somewhat hazy.


Now what does English have to do with this? :O 

Yes. I told him everything about this guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## D.H Mosquito

Emma24 said:


> Thanks. Any other ideas how can I make him a lot more special on.his birthday?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's your husband you will know his likes and wants better than me, is there somewhere you can go for the weekend? a city break and a show and sight seeing, car racing aviation show etc? at least take him for his fave meal for a start, pander to his likes and interests, even simple things i love model ship and plane building and she sometimes surprises me with that, remember you have to rebuild his wants and trust for you as this has unsettled him so it's how he sees you just now not how you perceive yourself and I'm not blaming you as the blame lies with who ever is trying to destabilise your marriage, work together to think and find out who it was


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## Emma24

D.H Mosquito said:


> He's your husband you will know his likes and wants better than me, is there somewhere you can go for the weekend? a city break and a show and sight seeing, car racing aviation show etc? at least take him for his fave meal for a start, pander to his likes and interests, even simple things i love model ship and plane building and she sometimes surprises me with that, remember you have to rebuild his wants and trust for you as this has unsettled him so it's how he sees you just now not how you perceive yourself and I'm not blaming you as the blame lies with who ever is trying to destabilise your marriage, work together to think and find out who it was


Thanks. I have been cooking his fav meals every day. And I have been trying my best to earn his trust again.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## D.H Mosquito

Emma24 said:


> Thanks. I have been cooking his fav meals every day. And I have been trying my best to earn his trust again.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's a good start keep plugging away and examine your and his facebook for potential frenemies, is he starting to mellow again amd a return of affection? if not he maybe just wary of letting his guard down and getting hurt, I know this isn't easy on you either but essential measures to keep what you've built together


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## phillybeffandswiss

Emma24 said:


> Now what does English have to do with this? :O


Well, you are contradicting yourself in a couple of posts. So, if English is your second language it is understandable. If not, if you talked to your husband the way you explained it to the board, as a male, I can see his issue. It has more to do with the present, than the past everyone keeps harping on.


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## alexm

Emma24 said:


> So what do you want to say? That I dont love my husband?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course not.

What you're being asked is - at that time in your life - who would you have chosen, if BOTH were available long term and interested?

Not necessarily "who is better marriage material".

Because WHAT YOUR HUSBAND IS SEEING is that you chose this guy, short term, for fun, and THEN him for long term and marriage.

Because none of us, men OR women, want to be the "safe second choice". We ALL want passion and fire. We ALL want to be our spouses first choice in EVERY aspect, not just safeness, or companionship.

Your husband does not feel this way AT ALL, and you've basically said this to him. The passion and intensity you felt for this guy does not equal, let alone surpass, the passion and intensity you feel/felt for your husband, including at that time.

So in those regards, you have essentially told him that he is "good enough" in that area, not "the best".

Ouch.


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## Thundarr

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I read the whole thread.
> 
> I have two questions:
> Is English your first language?
> Did you tell your husband in a similar or the same fashion as us?
> 
> Yes, I know you said so to Elegirl, but it was still somewhat hazy.
> 
> 
> Emma24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now what does English have to do with this? :O
> 
> Yes. I told him everything about this guy.
Click to expand...

I think what philly is saying is that participating in your thread can be like eating sunflower seeds. Every piece of pertinent information takes work to get it. So he's wondering if it's a language barrier. Maybe you answered already but when you asked your husband why he's angry or what he's possibly hurt about, what did he say?


----------



## EleGirl

Emma, you have been asked this but have not answered....

who took the picture of the two of you kissing?


----------



## I Don't Know

I'm guessing selfie.


----------



## sidney2718

Emma24 said:


> Thanks. I have been cooking his fav meals every day. And I have been trying my best to earn his trust again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am going to swim against the tide here.

Emma: you did NOTHING wrong. Your husband has a problem and he is taking it out on you. If he is as good a man as you say, he will eventually see this and apologize.

A spouse does NOT owe their marriage partner a complete and total rundown of their sex life prior to agreeing to a serious relationship.

This, by the way, is mainly a male problem. There was a case in TAM about a year ago about a man totally broken up because his wife, it turned out, slept with more partners than he did before they married. Again, this was his problem. I've never heard of a woman objecting to her husband's non-cheating sex history prior to marriage.

If your husband was curious about your sex life prior to becoming your spouse, he should have asked. You can't read his mind. Some men do NOT want to know, lest they feel "second rate".

That said, you now have the problem of dealing with your husband. You seem willing to make any sacrifice, especially for his birthday. I think your approach is correct. Make him a birthday that he will really enjoy. And when it is all done take him to bed and let him exercise a fantasy or two with you.

But in the end, you need not feel guilty. He has to get over it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

sidney2718 said:


> I am going to swim against the tide here.
> 
> Emma: you did NOTHING wrong. Your husband has a problem and he is taking it out on you. If he is as good a man as you say, he will eventually see this and apologize.
> 
> A spouse does NOT owe their marriage partner a complete and total rundown of their sex life prior to agreeing to a serious relationship.
> 
> This, by the way, is mainly a male problem. There was a case in TAM about a year ago about a man totally broken up because his wife, it turned out, slept with more partners than he did before they married. Again, this was his problem. I've never heard of a woman objecting to her husband's non-cheating sex history prior to marriage.
> 
> If your husband was curious about your sex life prior to becoming your spouse, he should have asked. You can't read his mind. Some men do NOT want to know, lest they feel "second rate".
> 
> That said, you now have the problem of dealing with your husband. You seem willing to make any sacrifice, especially for his birthday. I think your approach is correct. Make him a birthday that he will really enjoy. And when it is all done take him to bed and let him exercise a fantasy or two with you.
> 
> But in the end, you need not feel guilty. He has to get over it.


Emma, you're getting a lot of people who believe that it's none of your husbands business what happened before your marriage. Before you go basing your actions on this attitude remember that your husband doesn't agree with it. You don't have to live with any of the people giving you advice here, you have to live with your husband, and it matters to him. So before you go and tell your husband it's none of his business and to drop it, remember that he decides what is his business and you telling him to drop it may result in him dropping you. 

The "it's none of his business" choir here may tell you that you're better off moving on from someone like him. If you agree with that then just go on and do it, divorce him and move on. If you don't agree with that then do what you need to do, tell him what he needs to hear, to preserve your marriage.

And for crying out loud, tell us about the picture! Who took it? Do you remember it being taken? If not, do you recognize the location? Remember being there, and who else was there? Was it someplace private or public?


----------



## EleGirl

Nucking Futs said:


> Emma, you're getting a lot of people who believe that it's none of your husbands business what happened before your marriage. Before you go basing your actions on this attitude remember that your husband doesn't agree with it. You don't have to live with any of the people giving you advice here, you have to live with your husband, and it matters to him. So before you go and tell your husband it's none of his business and to drop it, remember that he decides what is his business and you telling him to drop it may result in him dropping you.
> 
> The "it's none of his business" choir here may tell you that you're better off moving on from someone like him. If you agree with that then just go on and do it, divorce him and move on. If you don't agree with that then do what you need to do, tell him what he needs to hear, to preserve your marriage.
> 
> And for crying out loud, tell us about the picture! Who took it? Do you remember it being taken? If not, do you recognize the location? Remember being there, and who else was there? Was it someplace private or public?


If her husband keeps up threating her the way he is, it will not matter what she tells him. In this case she will probably have to divorce anyway or live a life in which she is treated badly.


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> Emma, you have been asked this but have not answered....
> 
> who took the picture of the two of you kissing?


I have no idea. As I said before, he kissed me at the airport. 

I never took any photos with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> I have no idea. As I said before, he kissed me at the airport.
> 
> I never took any photos with him.


Are you saying that the picture is from the time he kissed you at the airport?


----------



## EleGirl

Also, if the two people in the picture are kissing, how easy is it to see that it is you that he is kissing?


----------



## Emma24

alexm said:


> Of course not.
> 
> What you're being asked is - at that time in your life - who would you have chosen, if BOTH were available long term and interested?
> 
> Not necessarily "who is better marriage material".
> 
> Because WHAT YOUR HUSBAND IS SEEING is that you chose this guy, short term, for fun, and THEN him for long term and marriage.
> 
> Because none of us, men OR women, want to be the "safe second choice". We ALL want passion and fire. We ALL want to be our spouses first choice in EVERY aspect, not just safeness, or companionship.
> 
> Your husband does not feel this way AT ALL, and you've basically said this to him. The passion and intensity you felt for this guy does not equal, let alone surpass, the passion and intensity you feel/felt for your husband, including at that time.
> 
> So in those regards, you have essentially told him that he is "good enough" in that area, not "the best".
> 
> Ouch.


Who has told you I do not feel passion for my husband? Or it's not as strong as it was for the ex? 

I explained my past in all honesty. Does not mean I feel less passionate for my husband.

I feel much more for him than I would do for anyone else.

If I were bored and thinking about my past lover like one person said here, I would never even bother about my husband and look for ways to contact my ex again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> Are you saying that the picture is from the time he kissed you at the airport?


Yes. The last time I saw him was at the airport.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> Also, if the two people in the picture are kissing, how easy is it to see that it is you that he is kissing?


It's not hard is it? My wedding photos have my husband and I kissing in one shot and I can recognize both of us.

My husband clearly saw me which infuriated him :'( 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> It's not hard is it? My wedding photos have my husband and I kissing in one shot and I can recognize both of us.


It would depend on the angle the picture is taken from.


There is someone out there is wants to harm your marriage.

Someone was following either you or your ex that day. IF the photo had been taken by some random stranger they would not have known how to get your address and send it to your husband. Nor would they have a reason to try to hurt you and your marriage.


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> It would depend on the angle the picture is taken from.
> 
> 
> There is someone out there is wants to harm your marriage.
> 
> Someone was following either you or your ex that day. IF the photo had been taken by some random stranger they would not have known how to get your address and send it to your husband. Nor would they have a reason to try to hurt you and your marriage.


But why would do that? And could it be that my ex got those photos clicked?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> But why would do that? And could it be that my ex got those photos clicked?


He might have. 

Was there anyone else who went to that airport with you and him?

If not, then one or both of you had someone following you.


----------



## alexm

Emma24 said:


> Who has told you I do not feel passion for my husband? Or it's not as strong as it was for the ex?
> 
> *Nobody did, it's speculation based on how you described this man, how you described your husband, and the situation as it was.
> 
> It's not a question of feeling passion for Guy #1 and none for Guy #2. It's a question of the differences between the two. From what you wrote, you make it sound as though Guy #1 was this smokin' hot, sexy-eyed beast of a man who you holed up in bed with for a week. And your husband is... your husband.*
> 
> I explained my past in all honesty. Does not mean I feel less passionate for my husband.
> 
> I feel much more for him than I would do for anyone else.
> 
> *I can't disagree with your feelings. But love and passion are two different things. ENTIRELY different things.*
> 
> If I were bored and thinking about my past lover like one person said here, I would never even bother about my husband and look for ways to contact my ex again.
> 
> *Not true. This happens all the time. I love my wife more than anybody I've ever loved before, and have a burning passion for her. But I'm a human being, and I think of people like my ex wife from time to time. No rhyme or reason for it, as she certainly doesn't come close to measuring up to my current wife. But people don't bury their memories and forget about them, or good times they've had in the past, including with other people. A crazy week of meaningless sex with an attractive person sounds pretty good to me, and not something I've experienced in quite that way. It would likely be something I would remember once in a while. Doesn't mean I'd being leaving my wife over it.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Emma, I want to be honest, we're trying to help you here, but you seem to be getting frustrated. You don't have to agree with every word any of us say and I think there's a small language barrier, which is nothing to be ashamed of.

But I'm not quite sure what you expected to hear. A few people may have already said it (that your husband is being a jerk and you did nothing wrong), so maybe you were hoping that a dozen people would say this, it'd make you feel good, and you could go to your husband with the proof that you need and tell him where to stick it.

Regardless of what I've said - which I stand by - I do also think your husband is being a jerk and you did nothing wrong. But I'm not your husband. I can also empathize with his perceived feelings towards this. I would likely feel similar, though I don't think I'd react in the way he is reacting.

The GOOD advice you are being given here is to try to understand where your husband is coming from, and not to step all over his feelings. You won't be able to convince him this is not an issue, so you have to be able to walk him through it gently and yes, walk on egg shells for a little bit.

But the worst thing you can do is to tell him his feelings aren't your own and to get over it.*


----------



## Emma24

alexm said:


> *Emma, I want to be honest, we're trying to help you here, but you seem to be getting frustrated. You don't have to agree with every word any of us say and I think there's a small language barrier, which is nothing to be ashamed of.
> 
> But I'm not quite sure what you expected to hear. A few people may have already said it (that your husband is being a jerk and you did nothing wrong), so maybe you were hoping that a dozen people would say this, it'd make you feel good, and you could go to your husband with the proof that you need and tell him where to stick it.
> 
> Regardless of what I've said - which I stand by - I do also think your husband is being a jerk and you did nothing wrong. But I'm not your husband. I can also empathize with his perceived feelings towards this. I would likely feel similar, though I don't think I'd react in the way he is reacting.
> 
> The GOOD advice you are being given here is to try to understand where your husband is coming from, and not to step all over his feelings. You won't be able to convince him this is not an issue, so you have to be able to walk him through it gently and yes, walk on egg shells for a little bit.
> 
> But the worst thing you can do is to tell him his feelings aren't your own and to get over it.*


Please get over your assumptions. What makes you think I want people to call my husband a jerk? 

He is not a jerk and I can understand his feelings and where he is coming from.

You might think about your ex but i don't. I don't need to.

This problem cropped up which compelled me to talk about my ex. Otherwise i am not even interested in knowing about him.

And anyone will get frustrated by the assumptions where I seem to have more passion for my ex and the newest tool - language barrier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

After reading this thread i'm not even really thinking about the OP or the husband as much as I am who the hell took that picture(s) and who the hell sent them to her husband and why??? That is beyond creepy/scary. Can't believe the OP isn't as worried about that. Is there someone targeting you or your husband??? Are you guys being watched??? Do you guys have enemies??? Is someone deliberately trying to sabotage your marriage?? You should be asking these questions.


----------



## EleGirl

Jasel said:


> After reading this thread i'm not even really thinking about the OP or the husband as much as I am who the hell took that picture(s) and who the hell sent them to her husband and why??? That is beyond creepy/scary. Can't believe the OP isn't as worried about that. Is there someone targeting you or your husband??? Are you guys being watched??? Do you guys have enemies??? Is someone deliberately trying to sabotage your marriage?? You should be asking these questions.


This is where Emma and her husband's energies need to go. They need to find out the answer to the above.

What happened about the picture is beyond creepy.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

Was there just you at the airport saying goodbye? did a friend drive you there or part of a group of friends saying goodbye? this would be the most logical starting point and follow on from there


----------



## Deejo

Posts removed.

Bans issued.

If one does not like the tenor of a thread, best recommendation I can make is that one should not respond.


----------



## bandit.45

We've all had an ex who was physically more attractive than our spouse. It doesn't mean anything. And most of the time those people knew they were hot and acted like it. 

You pick the person you marry for all the traits that are compatible with yours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

EleGirl said:


> This is where Emma and her husband's energies need to go. They need to find out the answer to the above.
> 
> What happened about the picture is beyond creepy.


I agree. This was a direct attack on their marriage. They both need to focus on who is trying to break them up.


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> This is where Emma and her husband's energies need to go. They need to find out the answer to the above.
> 
> What happened about the picture is beyond creepy.


How can I investigate? Where to start?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

Deejo said:


> PPosts removed.
> Bans issued.
> 
> If one does not like the tenor of a thread, best recommendation I can make is that one should not respond.


Who have been banned? Why??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alexm

Emma24 said:


> Please get over your assumptions. What makes you think I want people to call my husband a jerk?
> 
> He is not a jerk and I can understand his feelings and where he is coming from.
> 
> You might think about your ex but i don't. I don't need to.
> 
> This problem cropped up which compelled me to talk about my ex. Otherwise i am not even interested in knowing about him.
> 
> And anyone will get frustrated by the assumptions where I seem to have more passion for my ex and the newest tool - language barrier.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Language issues or not, you are still getting some good well thought out advice here, and your responses are coming across as argumentative.

I'm not sure what you expected to hear, but apparently none of this is it.

Best of luck!


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> How can I investigate? Where to start?


The envelope came in the mail, right?

What is the post-mark? What city did it come from?

What about the hand writing on the envelope? Is there any writing on the picture? Was there a note with it? Does it look like a man or a woman's hand writing?

Keep the envelope.

Answer those questions .. then we can look at the next step.


----------



## Cynthia

There are some questions that need to be answered in order to understand what is going on.
1) When you were at the airport, were there any other people with you and/or the man you were saying goodbye to? In other words, did any other friends or relatives go to say goodbye to him?
2) How long ago were those photos taken?
3) How long have you been married?
4) Who were the photos sent to? Were they in the mailbox address to your husband?
5) Was there a note in the envelope?
6) Was there a return address? What city was the postmark from?
7) You have said that your husband has been yelling at you and is angry, but you have not specifically said what you husband is angry about. What is he yelling about? What does he say? 
8) Was your husband a virgin when he met you?
9) Did your husband think you were a virgin when he married you? Did he think he was your first?


----------



## Dogbert

As far as you know, is there a woman who is attracted to your husband? I ask because if there is a female wacko trying to get her hands on your husband, she might be a person of interest.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Have you asked your husband why he is so angry? 
How long ago was the last time you saw this guy? 
In other words, the year of the kiss photo and the year he found received the photo.

These aren't meant to be mean. 

I'm going to float a scenario that I felt when I read your OP. He needs to calm down and focus on who wants to break up the marriage. So, to me, there is a simple explanation for his reaction, which has lest to do with the past and more about his initial assumptions.

I think neither of you did wrong, but how you both are reacting to each other is hurting the marriage.


----------



## altawa

Nucking Futs said:


> Emma, you're getting a lot of people who believe that it's none of your husbands business what happened before your marriage. Before you go basing your actions on this attitude remember that your husband doesn't agree with it. You don't have to live with any of the people giving you advice here, you have to live with your husband, and it matters to him. So before you go and tell your husband it's none of his business and to drop it, remember that he decides what is his business and you telling him to drop it may result in him dropping you.
> 
> The "it's none of his business" choir here may tell you that you're better off moving on from someone like him. If you agree with that then just go on and do it, divorce him and move on. If you don't agree with that then do what you need to do, tell him what he needs to hear, to preserve your marriage.


^^This!^^


SimplyAmorous said:


> If you switched this around.. NO WIFE WOULD want to be in these shoes either.. Oh my goodness..I could just hear how sensitive she would be, up in arms... if this happened with her husband, kissing photos sent in the mail .... like she is going to just sweep this under the rug.. LAUGHING :rofl:
> 
> Having sex with some HOT BABE for a full week.. *some old friend they both had*... *but she didn't want him*..meanwhile "Oh what a night " plays in his mind about her.. but no.. "OH WHAT A HOT 7 days, the bed sheets on fire! [email protected]#$"... he may have been wild about her.. and would have given anything....but she was moving on....any woman like that would also be *a threat *to the marriage..
> 
> To say the wife wouldn't feel anything here, or it's no big deal.. .. yeah I am snickering a bit..


^^This!^^


alexm said:


> Ah, this again. Always an interesting discussion..
> 
> First, you did nothing wrong, and I think you know this. Your husband may be acting like you did, however, and that's the problem. It's HIS problem.
> 
> Now, that's not to say he's completely out of bounds about his feelings. What he's doing wrong is putting his negativity on you, where he should be keeping it to himself.
> 
> I empathize with your husband, to a degree, and I DO see how it bothers him.
> 
> *The issue, to him, is that the three of you knew each other at one point. I don't mean you all hung out together and were friends (maybe you were) just that he knows who he is. This is always a difficult thing to reconcile - that your wife/husband had a "thing" with somebody you both know. Most people prefer to not know their partners exes.
> 
> He also likely knows that this guy wasn't looking for a relationship/marriage, that he was focused on work only, and therefore any woman he was with (which included you) would have known that, and therefore it would have been solely based around sex.
> 
> So the unfortunate outcome of this, is that he knows the woman who is now his wife had a fling, with somebody he knows/knew, and that, more importantly, his wife entered into a relationship that was solely based on attraction and sex and that had no future.
> 
> Add to that the fact that he was around at that time, and VERY LIKELY had some interest in you, even if he didn't actually show it.
> 
> And last, as he likely knew that this guy was not in it for the long haul (work was more important, had to move, etc.) he's left wondering that, if that wasn't the case with this guy, would you have ended up with him, instead of himself?
> 
> His feelings could be further exacerbated by his memories of how you reacted when this fling ended, if he was around to see them/hear about them. If you were genuinely sad that this guy moved away and you were in the dumps for a little while, then to him, he's left wondering if he's "second fiddle", and if you would have even started to date him if the guy hadn't been so focused on his career.
> *
> And to even FURTHER his paranoia, it's likely crossed his mind what will happen if and when this guy shows back up again. It's entirely possible (and maybe even likely) that he will contact you at some point in the future, even just to say hello and catch up.
> 
> I don't think there's any doubt that you love your husband and that he has a real concern to be worried, however, your description of this guy is rather glowing. It's clear there was an intense physical attraction to him - which is okay, of course - but it IS somewhat dangerous to your marriage, should he ever pop up again. Especially when you see your husband day in, day out, the good and the bad.
> 
> I imagine my wife, and everybody's wife (or husband) has had a fling or a relationship with somebody they had an intense physical or sexual connection to, and that they will always fondly remember this person and the intensity of the relationship, or fling, or whatever. The people we marry are often a solid combination of everything we want, a jack-of-all-trades, whereas guys like this one are not - they are only one thing (for example, hot). This guy wouldn't commit to you, yet you still had a fling anyway (which is okay), but it was clearly only based around one thing.
> 
> Just remember, if and when this guy pops up again, ignore, ignore, ignore. Even if he's married, it doesn't matter. He will always be perceived as a threat to your husband, rightly or wrongly, and he has no place in your life any more for this sole reason.
> 
> *ETA, thinking about it further, if this guy does show up again in the future (married or not) he IS a threat. Reason being - if two people have a relationship, a fling, or even a one night stand with somebody else, and it ends for any number of reasons, then it's over. You were not friends, you were relationship/sex partners. There's really no going back to "friends" after that, especially when one or both people are married. If either of you look up the other sometime down the road, that means that one person is on the other persons mind for some reason.
> 
> To me, there's really only one reason, and it may not always be overt, but it exists. I mean, we all have memories of some person we had an intense attraction to that isn't our current partner. I do. I'm sure your husband does, too. But they're gone now, and they're no longer a part of our lives - unless somewhere in the back of our minds we want them to be.
> 
> It's one thing to do this with old friends we haven't seen in 20 years, especially on Facebook, but it's another thing entirely to do this with old relationships, casual or otherwise.
> 
> There's never any good from two people who once had a relationship "catching up", unless you're both single. Because deep down, that's the real reason one person contacts the other. They once had something, so they're familiar with it, and maybe even miss it. And hey, "if she's single too, maybe we can reconnect. I'm going to see how she's doing!". There truly is no other reason for it.
> 
> So, again, best thing to do is that if and when he ever contacts you again, no matter what you think his reasons are, do not engage him in any way, as long as you are married. Not even a "sorry, I'm married" response. If he sends you an email or looks you up on Facebook, simply ignore.


^^The bolded above^^


----------



## jdawg2015

EleGirl said:


> Some husbands get jealous of their wife's past because some men are socialized that way.
> 
> Some husbands do not get jealous of their wife's past because those men are not socialized to be jealous and controlling.


But when the past is brought to the present, the game changes. BIG TIME.


----------



## larry.gray

Emma24 said:


> Please get over your assumptions. What makes you think I want people to call my husband a jerk?
> 
> He is not a jerk and I can understand his feelings and where he is coming from.


There is bickering back and forth between some of the forum members on this topic. Some of the members of the forum think your husband is a jerk for feeling the way he is.

I've been in your shoes in that regard. Back when I first came here, people would attack my wife based on what I wrote. I wanted help, not to have people tear down the woman I love. I resented those that attacked her. I ended up deleting all of my threads about my marriage because I hated the attacks. 

Some of the best advice I got was from Deejo. What he said is that the forum can only help the ones that are here. Any advice for the spouse will fall on deaf ears unless they are motivated to change AND they come here. The advice needs to be tailored with that in mind.

Something that I've learned since is that the moderators do not tolerate posters who persist in the back and forth arguing if the OP asks people to stop - particularly very specific things like "stop calling my husband a jerk." Those that won't stop end up with a vacation from the forum.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Emma24 said:


> I can completely understand his feelings. I am at fault and I regret my actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What do you regret? You didn't do anything wrong. You were with someone else before your husband. I'd guess that with a few cultural exceptions the vast majority didn't marry their first relationship. 

You said he had relationships before. I would suggest that you stop taking the defensive and stand up for yourself, you have nothing to apologize for.

If he has a problem with that then he needs to go and get help, alone.


----------



## jdawg2015

WonkyNinja said:


> What do you regret? You didn't do anything wrong. You were with someone else before your husband. I'd guess that with a few cultural exceptions the vast majority didn't marry their first relationship.
> 
> You said he had relationships before. I would suggest that you stop taking the defensive and stand up for yourself, you have nothing to apologize for.
> 
> If he has a problem with that then he needs to go and get help, alone.


Wonky, do you think it's the husbands fault that someone sent a photo to his house at this point in his marriage?

There's a lot going on here besides concern about her having a past. Guy was known to both people. Appears to be sent maliciously, etc. Lot of puzzle pieces.....

Personally I think telling the husband to suck it up and "go fix yourself" does not apply in this case. The wife will need to be part of this as well IMO


----------



## altawa

jdawg2015 said:


> Wonky, do you think it's the husbands fault that someone sent a photo to his house at this point in his marriage?
> 
> There's a lot going on here besides concern about her having a past. Guy was known to both people. Appears to be sent maliciously, etc. Lot of puzzle pieces.....
> 
> Personally I think telling the husband to suck it up and "go fix yourself" does not apply in this case. The wife will need to be part of this as well IMO


Further, it sounds like if he had known about this in advance, it would have been a deal breaker, and she knew it. That adds a massive layer of complication to this. I would be beyond furious, to the point of drawing up papers.


----------



## Emma24

Hello

Sorry I was offline. 

I tried to make my husband's birthday as special as possible. From cooking his favourite stuff to spoiling him, I did all I could.

He seems a lot better than he was before his birthday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Have you asked your husband why he is so angry?
> How long ago was the last time you saw this guy?
> In other words, the year of the kiss photo and the year he found received the photo.
> 
> These aren't meant to be mean.
> 
> I'm going to float a scenario that I felt when I read your OP. He needs to calm down and focus on who wants to break up the marriage. So, to me, there is a simple explanation for his reaction, which has lest to do with the past and more about his initial assumptions.
> 
> I think neither of you did wrong, but how you both are reacting to each other is hurting the marriage.


My husband said that photo drives him mad

He also added, he did not expect me to stoop so low and offer myself to another man who was not even interested in commitment, which means I indulged in that fling soley for lust.

He said he thought I was a decent woman.

I saw that guy two years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

Dogbert said:


> As far as you know, is there a woman who is attracted to your husband? I ask because if there is a female wacko trying to get her hands on your husband, she might be a person of interest.


Not really. My husband does not have much interactions with his female friends.

He is mostly close with a couple of his male friends and thats it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

CynthiaDe said:


> There are some questions that need to be answered in order to understand what is going on.
> 1) When you were at the airport, were there any other people with you and/or the man you were saying goodbye to? In other words, did any other friends or relatives go to say goodbye to him?
> 2) How long ago were those photos taken?
> 3) How long have you been married?
> 4) Who were the photos sent to? Were they in the mailbox address to your husband?
> 5) Was there a note in the envelope?
> 6) Was there a return address? What city was the postmark from?
> 7) You have said that your husband has been yelling at you and is angry, but you have not specifically said what you husband is angry about. What is he yelling about? What does he say?
> 8) Was your husband a virgin when he met you?
> 9) Did your husband think you were a virgin when he married you? Did he think he was your first?


1- He said he had a friend coming to see him off. But I left early so I dont know if he ever met his friend or not.

2- 2 years ago.

3- almost 9 months

4- They were addressed to me but my husband received the mail.

There was no note. Nothing at all. It was just a white envelope with the photo in it.

7- He said he didnt expect me to offer myself for lust and I am sleazy and not as decent as he thought. Also he hated that photo.

8- No. He told me he had a serious relationship but it did not last and they broke up.

9 - I dont know what he thought but he certainly thought I was decent.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> The envelope came in the mail, right?
> 
> What is the post-mark? What city did it come from?
> 
> What about the hand writing on the envelope? Is there any writing on the picture? Was there a note with it? Does it look like a man or a woman's hand writing?
> 
> Keep the envelope.
> 
> Answer those questions .. then we can look at the next step.


It was in our mailbox. It was just a white envelope. Nothing written anywhere 

My husband is suspecting someone who knows us and lives in the same place as us, is behind this as how can anyone know the address of our house ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdawg2015

Emma24 said:


> My husband said that photo drives him mad
> 
> He also added, he did not expect me to stoop so low and offer myself to another man who was not even interested in commitment, which means I indulged in that fling soley for lust.
> 
> He said he thought I was a decent woman.
> 
> I saw that guy two years ago.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can tell you that had that happened to me, I would leave and draw up papers.

When you mixed a friend into the mix you made a HUGE mistake. That hits way to close for the vast majority of guys out there. 

Not justifying anything but it's the way things are. As you know now your marriage is in serious trouble and your husband probably will never forgive this event as he'll always have to wonder "what if" he had not intercepted the pictures, etc. He feels decieve for sure.

Personally I would get into marriage counseling asap before this gets any more out of hand.


----------



## Deejo

For perspective, please keep in mind OP is not in the US.


----------



## Deejo

jdawg2015 said:


> I can tell you that had that happened to me, I would leave and draw up papers.
> 
> When you mixed a friend into the mix you made a HUGE mistake. That hits way to close for the vast majority of guys out there.
> 
> Not justifying anything but it's the way things are. As you know now your marriage is in serious trouble and your husband probably will never forgive this event as he'll always have to wonder "what if" he had not intercepted the pictures, etc. He feels decieve for sure.
> 
> Personally I would get into marriage counseling asap before this gets any more out of hand.


I think you misunderstand, or maybe it doesn't matter to you.

She wasn't even dating her husband at the time this occurred, let alone married to him.

So, you'd divorce your wife of 2+ years because she kissed some guy you both knew before you were going out?


----------



## samyeagar

Deejo said:


> I think you misunderstand, or maybe it doesn't matter to you.
> 
> She wasn't even dating her husband at the time this occurred, let alone married to him.
> 
> So, you'd divorce your wife of 2+ years because she kissed some guy you both knew before you were going out?


While I wouldn't go nearly so far as divorce or anything in this situation, in fairness of representation, it was more than a kiss Deejo.

While the OP's husband is the one who has, and has to own and work through his feelings, I think his wife has a part in getting through this as well.

He is likely feeling very much settled for. He is probably feeling that he doesn't trip his wifes lustful trigger the way the other man did. He, perhaps mistakenly, saw his wife as a relationship, love and sex all tied together kind of woman, but now sees that her pure lust can override any of the other things.

I imagine that I am doing a bit of projection here, but not entirely...my wife, after the hell she went through with her ex husband continued to pursue him purely sexually long after their divorce, after she was free, after she had long moved past any obligation what so ever. She didn't have to do it any more, yet she actively sought it out. That is tough to process without wondering if I trip her trigger the same way.

I'm almost afraid for the OP's husband on the answer to this question, but all else being equal, taking your emotions love for your husband out of it, completely honestly, based on the lust factor alone, would you chose your husband or the other guy to have a week long sexcapade?


----------



## snerg

intheory said:


> And that same person *was in the airport 2 years ago* when you kissed affair-man goodbye.


Just a point - she wasn't having an affair.

She had a fling.

Now the next issue. Husband is definitely not cool with the relationship.

That issue is on him. That was before him. This is something she can't change. Yes she didn't tell him how in lust with him. Yes she didn't explain that at a drop of a hat she jumped into a week long sex tryst.

That is something that she owns - when you don't reveal things about your past (TBH this really wasn't any business of her husband), you sometimes get nailed to the tree because you portrayed yourself in a way that isn't true (OP even stated that she knew her husband wouldn't be with her if he knew about what happened with the other guy). This is a problem that she now owns and needs to work with him to attempt to repair trust.

The picture. Now this is a tough one. Here's the issue. Since the picture came to light, the past you tried to cover/hide from him has come to light. Now he doesn't really know who you are. You presented yourself in a way that was different from the truth. It's more than likely not so much that you did this, it's the finding out after the fact that has got him really going and questioning you and himself.

The finding out after the fact is a cruel slap to the face. But something else that has to be running through his mid (it is for me) is the WHY. Why get the picture now? His trust in you is broken. To him, I would hazard a guess, you might be still involved with this guy and some concerned friend is attempting to warn him of what his wife is up to.

It could also be running through his head that this guy is attempting to reconnect and after hearing the story he wonders if you will run off. Even though you say you are with you husband, he's going to have major doubts.

Another is or will be creeping into his mind, did she settle for me? This one will drive your husband nuts with self doubt and really needs to be addressed.

I don't think what you did with the fling guy is bad. I also don't think divulging the tryst to your boyfriend now husband was a bad thing either. There are things that you have done that are really no one's business. People actually don't have the right to know every detail about your past. Your past is yours and what you want to reveal is up to you.

With that being said, as you have now learned, when we don't divulge information, we run the risk of future damage. 

It's our character, our integrity, our words and our actions that help other around us trust and feel secure.

If you are true to what you have written and really want only you husband, you need counseling. ASAP. You need to talk with your husband (not accept abuse) and help him get over any fears, insecurities, and self doubt. You actions need to prove that he's the only one for you.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Emma24 said:


> My husband said that photo drives him mad
> 
> He also added, he did not expect me to stoop so low and offer myself to another man who was not even interested in commitment, which means I indulged in that fling soley for lust.
> 
> He said he thought I was a decent woman.
> 
> I saw that guy two years ago.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would have a problem with a person who thinks I am NOT a decent woman for having engaged in lust. But that is me.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

samyeagar said:


> *He is likely feeling very much settled for.* He is probably feeling that he doesn't trip his wifes lustful trigger the way the other man did. He, perhaps mistakenly, saw his wife as a relationship, love and sex all tied together kind of woman, but now sees that her pure lust can override any of the other things.


Unless there is an additional cultural issue that we don't know about (which appears to be doubtful), this is what I've been trying to get the OP to think through. I think the insults the OP's husband hurled at her do not describe the complete picture. I think he was lashing out because his true feelings are that he's not good enough when compared to this fling guy.


----------



## JCD

Emma24 said:


> Hi
> 
> My married life is undergoing a lot of problems currently because of an incident from my past, before I got into a relationship with my then-boyfriend-now-husb and.
> My husband and I have an age difference of 9 years. But he is a very nice guy, very good looking, helping, understanding and affectionate and I love him a lot.
> 
> But since a month, he has been acting horribly with me. Someone, sent him photos of me kissing a guy I used to know and since then he has been upset. Even my husband knew that guy because he was in our frien circle.
> 
> The thing is, before I got into my relationship with my now husband, this guy friend of ours had entered our lives.
> He was a extremely handsome and a very mysterious man and I admit we had a strange connection since the day I met him.
> Whenever I would meet him, I would go lost into his eyes and would find myself staring at him , even forgetting what I had to say to him.
> It was he, who would start the conversation, but even he suffered from the same thing I used to suffer from.
> Our eyes would meet whenever we were around.
> 
> But he had openly declared that he was not interested in marriage or relationships and his only goal was to further his career without any distractions.
> 
> He was here for a short time, maybe 1 year and just a week before he had to leave, he told me he wanted to take back some memories of mine, because he knew I liked him but never said it.
> 
> I was so insanely attracted to him and his eyes (i still remember he had really alluring light brown eyes) that I agreed to all his demands. He wanted to stay with me for a week and we did, mostly having sex most of the time.
> He never let me out of his sight and for a week, I stayed in with him at his house. The day he was leaving, he kissed me many times and left.
> 
> He never appeared again.
> 
> I forgot about it and got into a relationship with my boyfriend whom I always liked and I knew he liked me too(now my husband)
> We got married a year later.
> 
> Someone knew about my past experience and they sent those photos to my husband and I was forced to reveal everything about my past which infuriated my husband.
> 
> I am a submissive wife so I listened to all he had to say. My only goal is to keep him happy and feel loved.
> But he now gives me the silent treatment and when we get into fights, he accuses me saying how many men I have slept with and how many I have cheated on him.
> 
> I go to bed crying every single night. I tried my best to help him get over it but he is still upset.
> He is emotional and jealous and I am suffering from it.
> 
> Last week I found out I was pregnant and he accused me again that I am not as innocent as I seem and whose baby am I carrying.
> 
> It was too painful for me to hear.
> 
> I cannot leave him , but what do I do to help him get over my past?
> 
> Please help me


Okay. I am reading this...and do you know what I hear?

You ARE (not were) into this guy! Your prose is practically high school giddy! I can hear your little heart squealing when I read your description of this man, that perfect perfect week of perfect perfect sex...and the fact that you were (in fact are) absolutely smitten by this guy.

What I am also reading is the only reason you didn't have a relationship with this guy was a lack of courage on your part and *he would not have a relationship with YOU!* You were primed and ready.

That perfect week? There were no fights about laundry or budgets or any nagging about chores. It is an unsullied memory that your relationship with old 'what's his name' can't compete with, because you were young, in love and didn't have a real relationship. It was all fantasy all week.

Your husband knows this. In fact, he probably caught on that you were smitten by this guy...but he never figured you did the deed. 

Is he acting like a jerk? Yes. He is. Do I think you hurt him rather badly? Also yes. I am betting, when you gave him that rendition of that week, your eyes danced...and he probably never saw them dance with him. He was just the guy who hung around and was the best of the dregs.

He is still acting like a jerk. He needs to stop. But I think he is reassessing the relationship and how much you had invested in it emotionally. Cause he just found a corner of your heart which he never had.

Is this divorce worthy? No. But I'm not surprised he's pulling back. Cause I got the sense that if Mr. Perfection Dreamy Brown Eyes stopped by...you'd be thoughtful. And no husband wants to hear that.






alexm said:


> Ah, this again. Always an interesting discussion..
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there's any doubt that you love your husband and that he has a real concern to be worried, however, your description of this guy is rather glowing. It's clear there was an intense physical attraction to him - which is okay, of course - but it IS somewhat dangerous to your marriage, should he ever pop up again. Especially when you see your husband day in, day out, the good and the bad.
> 
> I imagine my wife, and everybody's wife (or husband) has had a fling or a relationship with somebody they had an intense physical or sexual connection to, and that they will always fondly remember this person and the intensity of the relationship, or fling, or whatever. The people we marry are often a solid combination of everything we want, a jack-of-all-trades, whereas guys like this one are not - they are only one thing (for example, hot). This guy wouldn't commit to you, yet you still had a fling anyway (which is okay), but it was clearly only based around one thing.
> 
> Just remember, if and when this guy pops up again, ignore, ignore, ignore. Even if he's married, it doesn't matter. He will always be perceived as a threat to your husband, rightly or wrongly, and he has no place in your life any more for this sole reason.
> 
> *ETA, thinking about it further, if this guy does show up again in the future (married or not) he IS a threat. Reason being - if two people have a relationship, a fling, or even a one night stand with somebody else, and it ends for any number of reasons, then it's over. You were not friends, you were relationship/sex partners. There's really no going back to "friends" after that, especially when one or both people are married. If either of you look up the other sometime down the road, that means that one person is on the other persons mind for some reason.
> 
> To me, there's really only one reason, and it may not always be overt, but it exists. I mean, we all have memories of some person we had an intense attraction to that isn't our current partner. I do. I'm sure your husband does, too. But they're gone now, and they're no longer a part of our lives - unless somewhere in the back of our minds we want them to be.
> 
> It's one thing to do this with old friends we haven't seen in 20 years, especially on Facebook, but it's another thing entirely to do this with old relationships, casual or otherwise.
> 
> There's never any good from two people who once had a relationship "catching up", unless you're both single. Because deep down, that's the real reason one person contacts the other. They once had something, so they're familiar with it, and maybe even miss it. And hey, "if she's single too, maybe we can reconnect. I'm going to see how she's doing!". There truly is no other reason for it.
> 
> So, again, best thing to do is that if and when he ever contacts you again, no matter what you think his reasons are, do not engage him in any way, as long as you are married. Not even a "sorry, I'm married" response. If he sends you an email or looks you up on Facebook, simply ignore.


I think there is very much a doubt.

And yes. No contact with this guy ever. Not a call. Not an email. Not a text. Nothing. I think this guy is setting the stage for a comeback or you have a particularly nasty enemy.

How does someone SECRETLY take a picture of you kissing? Where did this happen?  When? I think it was this guy...who doesn't care about your relationship enough that he doesn't mind scuttling it just so he can salvage you. 

OP, be VERY VERY CAREFUL. Your husband is not the only one using you badly.




Happilymarried25 said:


> Another post of a husband upset with his wife about what she did before you were married. Why I can't figure it out, the past is the past most of us have done things we weren't too proud about when we were young, we can't change that. Your husband needs to concentrate on the present and forget the past.


Not the way this woman is squealing about this man, even years later. Her husband has an honest beef. Because her feelings sound like the present, not the past.


----------



## samyeagar

Happilymarried25 said:


> Another post of a husband upset with his wife about what she did before you were married. Why I can't figure it out, the past is the past most of us have done things we weren't too proud about when we were young, we can't change that. *Your husband needs to concentrate on the present and forget the past*.


He was happily concentrating on the present, and he still is. It just happens that her past has been thrust into his present.


----------



## bfree

Deejo said:


> For perspective, please keep in mind OP is not in the US.


That's a good point. Maybe this is a cultural issue. For many of us a little sexual romp before settling down in a serious relationship might be less of a problem. But possibly in their culture a woman "wantonly" giving herself to a man is a big cultural taboo. Just as infidelity is seen differently in other cultures maybe a woman's sexuality is viewed as something that should be held to a higher standard. Not saying it's right, just that it might be a factor in her husband's thinking.


----------



## Cynthia

At this point, your husband is mistreating you.
You are in defensive mode. If you don't do something to turn the tables to a more equal footing, you may have a problem that doesn't go away. Your husband now has new information about you and he is angry. If this is not resolved, your marriage will not get better. Either he needs to love you for who you are, past, present, and future or you are going to be miserable with him. It is time for him to decide what he's going to do about this and form a united front with you.
It is disturbing that someone would put photos in your mailbox. Your fling may be planning something. If so, that would make him a terrible person who doesn't go any deeper than sex, so I hope you will not entertain any thoughts of reconnecting with him. Has your husband expressed concern that might happen?


----------



## altawa

Emma24 said:


> 1- He said he had a friend coming to see him off. But I left early so I dont know if he ever met his friend or not.
> 
> 2- 2 years ago.
> 
> 3- almost 9 months
> 
> 4- *They were addressed to me but my husband received the mail.
> 
> There was no note. Nothing at all. It was just a white envelope with the photo in it.
> *
> 7- He said he didnt expect me to offer myself for lust and I am sleazy and not as decent as he thought. Also he hated that photo.
> 
> 8- No. He told me he had a serious relationship but it did not last and they broke up.
> 
> 9 - I dont know what he thought but he certainly thought I was decent.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Emma24 said:


> It was in our mailbox. *It was just a white envelope. Nothing written anywhere *
> 
> My husband is suspecting someone who knows us and lives in the same place as us, is behind this as how can anyone know the address of our house ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now......I was pretty tired when I got home from work this morning. I replied to a couple of threads and went to bed. Then, I remembered what I read in here. Those two statements I bolded, in posts that were made one after the other, don't match up. If nothing was written anywhere on it, how was it addressed to anybody?

Looking back at the OP, she says they were sent to the OP. Now she says they were sent to her, but he opened them.


> It was sent through mail which he received in the morning.


We then find out it was just put in the mailbox, not actually mailed.

I don't know. Something is weird.


----------



## alexm

altawa said:


> Now......I was pretty tired when I got home from work this morning. I replied to a couple of threads and went to bed. Then, I remembered what I read in here. Those two statements I bolded, in posts that were made one after the other, don't match up. If nothing was written anywhere on it, how was it addressed to anybody?
> 
> Looking back at the OP, she says they were sent to the OP. Now she says they were sent to her, but he opened them.
> 
> We then find out it was just put in the mailbox, not actually mailed.
> 
> I don't know. Something is weird.


I think you may be reading into it a bit.

What I'm picturing in my head is an envelope with her name/address on it and no return address. Inside, a photo, and nothing else. I think when she says "nothing written anywhere", she means no note inside, just the photo.

Her husband checked the mail, apparently opened it, and there you go.

Which makes me try and imagine how he felt at that exact moment. He sees a photo of his wife kissing another man (actually not just another man, a mutual acquaintance), with no context to the photo (no note and no idea who sent it).

The first thing I'd be thinking was WHEN was this taken? The second would be why is this being sent to her? And the third would be when they hell did THEY date?

We only have her side of things, which we have to take at face value.

Her husband may very well not believe that this photo was taken 2 years ago, before they were together. He may think this was recent. Unless there's some sort of proof in the photo (the way she wore her hair 2 years ago has changed, new tattoo, whatever) how on earth does he know it wasn't taken two weeks ago, not two years ago?

This could explain his behaviour and treatment of her.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

alexm said:


> I think you may be reading into it a bit.
> 
> What I'm picturing in my head is an envelope with her name/address on it and no return address. Inside, a photo, and nothing else. I think when she says "nothing written anywhere", she means no note inside, just the photo.
> 
> Her husband checked the mail, apparently opened it, and there you go.
> 
> Which makes me try and imagine how he felt at that exact moment. He sees a photo of his wife kissing another man (actually not just another man, a mutual acquaintance), with no context to the photo (no note and no idea who sent it).
> 
> The first thing I'd be thinking was WHEN was this taken? The second would be why is this being sent to her? And the third would be when they hell did THEY date?
> 
> We only have her side of things, which we have to take at face value.
> 
> Her husband may very well not believe that this photo was taken 2 years ago, before they were together. He may think this was recent. Unless there's some sort of proof in the photo (the way she wore her hair 2 years ago has changed, new tattoo, whatever) how on earth does he know it wasn't taken two weeks ago, not two years ago?
> 
> This could explain his behaviour and treatment of her.


This was the scenario I saw from the beginning and why I was asking for a timeline.This was never, go read it again, about her past sex life. She states, by herself, he was never worried about her past until these photos surfaced. This was about a guy seeing pictures of his wife kissing another man. His reaction, to me, makes me believe she must look similar to when the picture was taken. Then he gets to listen to his wife explain how infatuated she was with this guy. As many of us stated, if she told him the story like she did here, he probably didn't believe a word coming out of her mouth. So, now he has to believe her story or not. Yes, I know, trust your wife. Still, there is a huge difference between trust from words and seeing anonymous photos, of a intimate moment, appear in your mailbox. 

For all he knew, that kiss was recent.

He needs to stop treating her poorly, but his comments make me believe he thinks it is recent and not the far past everyone keeps bickering about..


----------



## Pollo

Unless I missed it somewhere in this thread, you need to come clean about everything. 
Where did the photos come from?

The way you describe that guy shows you're still infatuated with him. I'm guessing your husband sees this because it's pretty obvious to anyone that reads your thread.


----------



## Bobby5000

If the old boyfriend wanted to rekindle things, he would be a suspect. Perhaps he meant to send this to her, but it was misplaced.


----------



## alexm

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This was the scenario I saw from the beginning and why I was asking for a timeline.This was never, go read it again, about her past sex life. She states, by herself, he was never worried about her past until these photos surfaced. This was about a guy seeing pictures of his wife kissing another man. His reaction, to me, makes me believe she must look similar to when the picture was taken. Then he gets to listen to his wife explain how infatuated she was with this guy. As many of us stated, if she told him the story like she did here, he probably didn't believe a word coming out of her mouth. So, now he has to believe her story or not. Yes, I know, trust your wife. Still, there is a huge difference between trust from words and seeing anonymous photos, of a intimate moment, appear in your mailbox.
> 
> For all he knew, that kiss was recent.
> 
> He needs to stop treating her poorly, but his comments make me believe he thinks it is recent and not the far past everyone keeps bickering about..


This is kind of where I was going with this, then the thread devolved, and OP didn't seem too open to some suggestions, so I kept my mouth shut.

I know I would be wondering wtf was going on if something like this showed up on my doorstep. Luckily, my wife has changed dramatically in the 6 years we've been together, so I could accurately judge when the photo would have been taken. Perhaps OP hasn't changed that much in the ~2 years they've been together, and her husband is a little leery of the story?

Even if, say in my case, I got photos of my wife kissing another man and they were clearly from before we were together, I'd still be wondering wtf? It would clearly indicate to me that somebody was out to get my wife, me, both of us, or ruin the relationship for some reason (so they can step in?)

Without any proof, and entirely circumstantial, my bet would be on the other guy sending her a "reminder" of their time together. Maybe he's been thinking of her over the past two years and is interested in rekindling what it was they had. It's an odd way to do it, but theoretically could be effective in some cases (and is also entirely deniable if it comes back on him).

Regardless, we know it's somebody who knows her, and knows her address. The fact that it was addressed to her more or less rules out somebody trying to get hubby angry, and seems to point to somebody who wants HER to see the photo and perhaps jog some old memories.

If she was the one who opened the envelope (which was addressed to her) it is highly unlikely hubby would have ever known about this, but that's not how this played out, and OP has some explaining to do and has to hope hubby believes her.

I think she just needs to somehow prove this was from 2 years ago. Study the photo and look for little things, like what she was wearing, or jewelry, or hairstyle - something that is different from how she's looked in the last two years. May be difficult.


----------



## altawa

alexm said:


> I think you may be reading into it a bit.
> 
> What I'm picturing in my head is an envelope with her name/address on it and no return address. Inside, a photo, and nothing else. I think when she says "nothing written anywhere", she means no note inside, just the photo.
> 
> Her husband checked the mail, apparently opened it, and there you go.
> 
> Which makes me try and imagine how he felt at that exact moment. He sees a photo of his wife kissing another man (actually not just another man, a mutual acquaintance), with no context to the photo (no note and no idea who sent it).
> 
> The first thing I'd be thinking was WHEN was this taken? The second would be why is this being sent to her? And the third would be when they hell did THEY date?
> 
> We only have her side of things, which we have to take at face value.
> 
> Her husband may very well not believe that this photo was taken 2 years ago, before they were together. He may think this was recent. Unless there's some sort of proof in the photo (the way she wore her hair 2 years ago has changed, new tattoo, whatever) how on earth does he know it wasn't taken two weeks ago, not two years ago?
> 
> This could explain his behaviour and treatment of her.


I took her literal words that she posted in back to back posts. I don't think that is reading too much into it. I could be wrong, it could be language barrier stuff, but this whole thing still smells funny.


----------



## JCD

EleGirl said:


> Some husbands get jealous of their wife's past because some men are socialized that way.
> 
> Some husbands do not get jealous of their wife's past because those men are not socialized to be jealous and controlling.


So is there no circumstance where a person should be jealous? Is enunciating your boundaries to another person (if you do this, I will react this way) controlling?


----------



## alexm

It's totally all right to be jealous, and a lot of people will actually tell you you should be, from time to time with regards to your spouse or relationship. A lot of the time, you should keep it inside, however. And "controlling" does not always go hand in hand with jealousy, either.

No matter how you look at it, jealousy is a natural human reaction, especially when it's related to your mate. Just about every living being on this earth is territorial, and that includes with their mate. We humans just tend to extend it beyond "get out of my tree".

Where we go wrong as a species is that we sometimes turn this jealousy on to our partners, as opposed to just scaring off the threat and waiting for the next one. But we do this because we're just about the only species in which we can potentially lose a partner to a competitor for the sake of fun, not necessarily because he/she is a better mate, bigger, faster, stronger, etc.

Besides, I don't think this particular case is necessarily related to jealousy about the past, anyway. It COULD be, and it seems that many posters have decided that's exactly what it is, but I don't get that impression.

Like I said above, hubby gets an out-of-context photo of his wife kissing somebody else that they both know, that he had no idea she ever had a relationship with. He may not believe that it was from 2 years ago, despite what OP is telling him. And it's not difficult to empathize with him, is it? If the photo was taken while they were together, of course his wife is going to say "no no, that was BEFORE we dated". It doesn't matter if that's the honest truth or not, the fact is that this photo was mailed to them NOW, and the first thing ANYBODY would think is that it's current. Why would anybody send a photo of that from two years ago to a married couple?

Furthermore, say he believes her that it's from before they were together - he was in this same circle at that point and may very well have had interest in her at that time. He eventually, as we all know, ended up with her in the long run, but now he KNOWS he got beat out by this guy back then. I don't care who you are or how you were raised, this is not going to make you feel very good.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

NobodySpecial said:


> I would have a problem with a person who thinks I am NOT a decent woman for having engaged in lust. But that is me.


So seriously.. had you & your husband had a mutual HOT friend a couple yrs ago (you may have even been envious of her looks & the attention she got)....and he never told you that he had lust fest for a week with her.. *he wasn't really interested in you at the time for relationship but kept you on the sidelines as "just a friend"*.. this hot babe left town, so he had no chance with her (maybe she had a BF back at college, who knows).... he then turns his affections to you.. you get married.. 

Then you open up the mailbox one day.. 9 months into your marriage... thinking he was a pretty stand upish type of guy.. wasnt one to fool around unless he loved someone (with strings attached) and get blindsided by him kissing this mutual friend you both had... then the truth comes out.. 

No big deal?? 

Really.. for all the women who don't "GET" this.. or why a man would be reacting like this...I simply do not understand you at all... you can't be very sensitive.. just because you all have this line in your head that -HE or she was FREE at the time, not committed.. still doesn't suddenly remove your emotions , does it ??


----------



## JCD

Emma24,

Having read the whole thread, I want to post something a little more germane.

Again, reading how you described things with this guy, it was REALLY HOT! You wrote a prologue for 50 Shades of Gray in your description of this guy. 

Alexm has the best advice here so far. Your husband is...adding more damage to the marriage. And it's good you are defending him.

Credit where credit is due.

But you didn't write lust filled thoughts about your husband. "Oh...I met him and we dated and we got married."

Here are the factors which are hurting your marriage.

It's only 9 months old. If you had several years, you could point to years of dedication as proof of your feelings. But you don't have that.

There is no time stamp on the photo. Right now, he might honestly feel this was taken, if not after marriage, while you were dating (is it possible this could be true?) Was there any overlap?

Your husband might have thought the two of you (you and your husband) had more 'going on' than you considered when you hooked up with Mr. Hot Guy. Maybe he felt he was a strong dating candidate...and then you ran off to have sex with this other guy. 

Here is the conversation I would have.

"Honey, this is when that picture was taken. At the time, we were not in a relationship. It had NOTHING to do with you, nor was it a commentary on your desirability. It was something selfish and single. I am not a bad woman for doing this. It was just a crazy thing that happened...and it's OVER. One hundred percent over."

"Now, you think I'm 'indecent' but I don't think so. I am honest and I am loyal. AT THAT TIME, I wasn't WITH anyone, so I could do that. I know you don't like the guy. That's fine. He might have been the a**hole who sent us the picture...which means I don't like the guy anymore either. I LOVE what we have together and hate anyone who would damage it. He might have had me for a couple of days, but you get me EVERY DAY for the rest of your life."

"I know I wasn't totally straightforward with you. I caused you a lot of pain. I didn't tell you because you were so important to me that I was afraid of losing you if I was straightforward. That you would treat me...well...like you were treating me last week! That hurt. I can see I was wrong about that choice, but it was the decision I made at the time because *what I did with him had NOTHING to do with us at all. In any way.* It was it's own crazy thing."

"I know you are going to worry about a lot of things and I can't make you NOT worry. I can only tell you that it's misplaced. I'm not chasing after anyone. I'm HERE. I'm having YOUR baby. WE are a family. And I want to show that to you every day. Just try to hold your temper a bit better and let me prove it to you."



**

Now, personally, I don't believe much of what I wrote. If Mr. Hot Guy had been willing, I think your husband would never have had a shot, but that was then. This is now. NOW you need to fix this relationship. Hopefully that helps.


----------



## JCD

Just an analogy for the general viewing audience.

Let's say you were at a party.

There is this guy who looks interesting. Maybe not the ONLY interesting guy there, but you certainly would not turn your nose up at him.

Here is the problem. He is mooning over this girl with red hair who is wearing something spray painted on. He is not monopolizing her time. In fact, he's quite friendly to you and you think maybe something might come out of this.

At some point he disappears...and then he pops out of nowhere. His clothing is slightly askew and there is a lipstick stain on his collar of a familiar shade and his hair is tousled.

"Hey...you know... you're pretty cute. How about a date next week?"

I'm guessing most of you ladies would tell him to take a hike (even though this is distinctly 'the past'). You'd call it self respect or dignity or just 'EW, what a horrible player to turn around and try THAT'.

Let's say that some of you ladies actually ASKED about what he was doing 15 minutes ago. "Oh...that was nothing. Just something I had to get out of my system" Exactly how much ice would that cut for you?

All that is happening is this man is not having retroactive jealousy. He's having 'retroactive self respect'


----------



## bfree

JCD, as always great post. But it did also make me think of something. We've seen situations before when two people are describing the exact same event and their descriptions are totally different. I recall a thread on TAM where there was a "misunderstanding" over a perceived separation and it caused the marriage to end. Is it possible that Emma's husband believed they were in a relationship before Emma did? Is it possible that Emma "rewrote" history a bit at the time so that she could justify having this fling. Maybe that's what has the husband so upset?


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## JCD

bfree said:


> JCD, as always great post. But it did also make me think of something. We've seen situations before when two people are describing the exact same event and their descriptions are totally different. I recall a thread on TAM where there was a "misunderstanding" over a perceived separation and it caused the marriage to end. Is it possible that Emma's husband believed they were in a relationship before Emma did? Is it possible that Emma "rewrote" history a bit at the time so that she could justify having this fling. Maybe that's what has the husband so upset?


Exactly!

This is a theory.

While she was mooning over Hotness, HUBBY was mooning over her...but she didn't notice because she was um...mooning.

He might have even thought they were in some kind of relationship, sort of a flirting banter kind of thing. I've seen guys do that kind of stuff mentally. And you ladies have seen guys who thought they had relationships with you that didn't exist anywhere except their own minds. (It's a human thing)

So while he didn't like her mooning, he felt pretty good to actually 'win' her in the end. He worked hard, he wined and dined her, took her out, gave her time and attention...

and now he finds out that the other guy had her. Not only had her, but had her with a wink and a nod. Hotness gave her NOTHING...and yet Hotness won the same privileges that it took Hubby almost a year and a half to get. Because Hotness had 'it' and Hubby...didn't (this is not to imply that the wife does not love her husband.)

WHILE 'they' had a 'relationship' (at least in his mind)

I am not saying he is accurate in his beliefs, but that might explain a lot of the anger.

And I could be wrong.


----------



## JCD

intheory said:


> Okay, I realize I might not be seeing beyond the end of my own nose here; BUT, I don't get the logistics of the photograph.
> 
> Emma and her sex-partner kiss goodbye at the airport two years ago.
> 
> Someone takes a picture.
> 
> It can't have been sex-partner (holding the camera in "selfie" fashion), because Emma would then know who took the picture;and she has stated she doesn't know who took it.
> 
> So a third party took the picture.
> 
> It can't be an accident that they were there at the airport at the very moment with a camera in the vicinity of Emma and her sex-partner.
> 
> So sex-partner must have set it up. Arranged to have someone follow them to the airport, hang around inconspicuously, then take a picture when they kiss goodbye. And he didn't want Emma to know the picture was taken.
> 
> Then hold on to the pictures for 2+ years. Why? Just in case he might want to use them to blackmail her, or wreck her marriage? But Emma wasn't married to anyone at that time; so why would anyone want to do that to her?
> 
> This is what bothers me most about this whole scene. It's really scary to think of someone going to all this trouble *in advance* to try to mess up Emma's life. The whole thing is weirding my brain.


Here is a bit you might be forgetting.

Supposedly, according to Emma, other friends were also supposed to meet this guy before he left.

Now, she gave him a kiss. Obviously it was not THIS guy.

Could it be one of their friends? So they had a picture on their phones about this. 

From here, it can go a few ways.

1) Hot Guy had the picture sent to him from the friend and kept it as a 'trophy' to remember his Week of Free Sex. Then, two years later, maybe he uses it.

2) Someone decided to mess with their marriage out of spite for some reason.

3) Same thing as 2 except that the person who took the picture was appalled at what she was doing with Hot Guy and only found out about the marriage recently (maybe they were abroad or in school)

4) One of these mutual friends just sent her the photo for her OWN memories without thinking. Oops.

5) Emma is lying and Hot Guy has been putting out feelers. Obviously, she can't admit to anything to hubby or us, EVEN IF SHE THOUGHT IT WAS PLATONIC IN HER OWN MIND, and friend sent the picture to warn the Hubby about Hot Guy OR Hot Guy was trying to egg things on.

Now she can't admit she's been talking to him again because everything has spun out of control.

I sympathize to all of these, btw.

Though if there has been ANY contact with Hot Guy...well, she's not going to admit it on the rack. So deny deny deny...but also NEVER EVER EVER talk to him again.


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## italianjob

The way the pic was delivered:

- The Hot Guy is trying to get back in touch
or
- Someone wants to stir up things in the marriage.

if the latter is the case it could be the Hot Guy himself making fun of H sending him proof that he "had" his wife. Emma says H doesn't like HG; maybe they actually hate each other, and this is some kind of slap in the face from HG to H.

if it's somebody else it may be possible that Emma is "rewriting" the beginning of her relationship with H to accomodate her fling as legit. Why would someone keep a pic like that for two years and then use it like this if she wasn't having any other relationship at the time?

If Emma described the fling to her husband in a similar fashion as she described it here, I can understand he didn't take it so well. To see your wife virtually drooling over somebody else after just nine months of marriage must not be the easiest thing to witness...


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## bfree

Maybe Mr. Hotness knew he was coming back in a couple of years and saved the picture so he could once again "get the girl."


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## JCD

bfree said:


> Maybe Mr. Hotness knew he was coming back in a couple of years and saved the picture so he could once again "get the girl."


There are lots of reasons why He would keep the picture.

And with storage so cheap, keeping such a picture is no big deal to anyone


Edited to add: We want to paint Mr. Hotness as a villain, but honestly, he was straightforward with the girl about how a LTR was a nonstarter and he didn't take anything she wasn't offering. That some of us might be jealous or disapprove...well, that's our personal perspective.

That being said: IF he was the one who sent the photo with malicious intent, he's scum.

BUT...he might have kept the picture with no ill intention in his mind.

It is not HIS actions which caused the damage to the marriage. It was what her husband thinks as her deception...and his thoughts she is damaged goods (at least that is how he is treating her)

Just a bit of perspective before we break out the torches and pitch forks.


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## Emma24

JCD said:


> Here is a bit you might be forgetting.
> 
> Supposedly, according to Emma, other friends were also supposed to meet this guy before he left.
> 
> Now, she gave him a kiss. Obviously it was not THIS guy.
> 
> Could it be one of their friends? So they had a picture on their phones about this.
> 
> From here, it can go a few ways.
> 
> 1) Hot Guy had the picture sent to him from the friend and kept it as a 'trophy' to remember his Week of Free Sex. Then, two years later, maybe he uses it.
> 
> 2) Someone decided to mess with their marriage out of spite for some reason.
> 
> 3) Same thing as 2 except that the person who took the picture was appalled at what she was doing with Hot Guy and only found out about the marriage recently (maybe they were abroad or in school)
> 
> 4) One of these mutual friends just sent her the photo for her OWN memories without thinking. Oops.
> 
> 5) Emma is lying and Hot Guy has been putting out feelers. Obviously, she can't admit to anything to hubby or us, EVEN IF SHE THOUGHT IT WAS PLATONIC IN HER OWN MIND, and friend sent the picture to warn the Hubby about Hot Guy OR Hot Guy was trying to egg things on.
> 
> Now she can't admit she's been talking to him again because everything has spun out of control.
> 
> I sympathize to all of these, btw.
> 
> Though if there has been ANY contact with Hot Guy...well, she's not going to admit it on the rack. So deny deny deny...but also NEVER EVER EVER talk to him again.


I am not in contact with the old flame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emma24

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Emma - I've retread this thread and am now putting together a VERY different picture in my mind of your situation. Please tell us if this describes it at all...
> 
> Your husband is a very decent, respectable, conservative man. He knew you for a period of time before dating you. During that time he was interested in you and his family and friends probably were aware of this and may have even encouraged him to pursue you. They might have counseled him as well - asking someone out can be a difficult step to make.
> 
> At the same time, you both were aware of a swarthy "dog" who has a way with women. He has a reputation - one that your husband is disturbed by, but one which can secretly tug at some women and draw them into lusty situations they would not otherwise consider. Past women might be looked down upon by more conservative members of your community or group.
> 
> Your husband ultimately won your hand in marriage - and you appear to be a respectable "good girl" to family and friends.
> 
> Unfortunately, someone that your husband knows - family or friend - someone who also thought you were a "good girl" - found out about your fling while it was going on. Perhaps your fling or one of his friends bragged about his "trophy". This person captured the kiss as proof that you were not who they thought you were.
> 
> What to do? In his circles, this would be a very bad thing. Your husband was very interested in pursuing you... Perhaps the kiss was only a kiss and nothing more happened... Is this enough to break up the potential marriage? This is too drastic an outcome based on a hunch so the photo is put away.
> 
> Now... Much later... Perhaps guilt at not telling... Perhaps this friend or family member doesn't like something about you... Perhaps this friend is another woman that might have had a chance with your husband... For whatever reason, they expose the photo to YOU ONLY. Perhaps they only wanted to let you know they knew but still did not want to hurt your husband. But he got the letter by mistake.
> 
> Could any of ths be true? Is your culture or social group or family so opposed to this behavior for this to be create such strong reactions?


Not really. He is not conservative but this situation made him mad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty

Or his insecurities caused him to lash out at you. The other guy is highly attractive, charismatic,, and your husband is jealous of your fling that he has such an affect on you. Your husband wishes he can invoke the same, and is angry at you because he feels like he does not invoke the same response. He feels inferior in some ways, and he blames you for making him feel that way.

I popped in and out of your thread. I just wanted to chime in and help your husband understand his emotions. He needs to learn that it is the total package that matters, and not just the veneer of it all. Things like integrity, intelligence, humor, and a whole list of traits adds to the reason why you both chose each other.


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## Suspecting2014

Did your H and the filing guy ever met?

Maybe your H feels hunilated by this guy if you allowded them to be friends or have mutual friends that know what happened.

Any how, you are a decent woman and you are the same woman your H married. He will see this in no time.

Good luck


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## Nucking Futs

Suspecting2014 said:


> Did your H and the filing guy ever met?
> *
> Maybe your H feels hunilated by this guy if you allowded them to be friends or have mutual friends that know what happened.*
> 
> Any how, you are a decent woman and you are the same woman your H married. He will see this in no time.
> 
> Good luck


This could be a big part of his problem. Do you and your husband have friends that knew about your fling?


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## Emma24

Mr.Fisty said:


> Or his insecurities caused him to lash out at you. The other guy is highly attractive, charismatic,, and your husband is jealous of your fling that he has such an affect on you. Your husband wishes he can invoke the same, and is angry at you because he feels like he does not invoke the same response. He feels inferior in some ways, and he blames you for making him feel that way.
> 
> I popped in and out of your thread. I just wanted to chime in and help your husband understand his emotions. He needs to learn that it is the total package that matters, and not just the veneer of it all. Things like integrity, intelligence, humor, and a whole list of traits adds to the reason why you both chose each other.


But why would he feel inferior to him? 

My husband himself is extremely attractive man. 

I dont understand why he feels so :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emma24

Suspecting2014 said:


> Did your H and the filing guy ever met?
> 
> Maybe your H feels hunilated by this guy if you allowded them to be friends or have mutual friends that know what happened.
> 
> Any how, you are a decent woman and you are the same woman your H married. He will see this in no time.
> 
> Good luck


They saw each other but never talked.

The fling guy hardly spoke to anyone except two of his male friends.

My husband also interacts less with others. Just his close friends.

His attitude has improved. He is not being so annoyed like he was before.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2

Emma24 said:


> But why would he feel inferior to him?
> 
> My husband himself is extremely attractive man.
> 
> I dont understand why he feels so :-/


Let me answer your question. Did you have sex with your future husband on your first date? My guess is no. Why didn’t you? The hot guy had you for a week with no date. The following excerpts from your previous posts explain why your husband is upset.



Emma24 said:


> But he had openly declared that he was not interested in marriage or relationships and his only goal was to further his career without any distractions.
> 
> But i chose my husband to be my life partner, with whom I wanted to share my life with. Not the guy I had a fling with.
> 
> And had I told my husband before he would not have married me :'( :'( :'(
> 
> I chose my husband not because I had no choice, its because I loved him and considered him for companionship.
> 
> He also added, he did not expect me to stoop so low and offer myself to another man who was not even interested in commitment, which means I indulged in that fling soley for lust.
> 
> He said he thought I was a decent woman.


There is an old saying that men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love. I cringe when a WW tells her BH that her OM was only sex and that she loves and wants to grow old with her husband. She says that because that’s what she would want to hear if the positions were reversed. What she doesn’t realize is that while the relationship is most important to her men don’t always feel the same way. 

Your husband had to pay full price for your goodies while the hot guy got them for free because he was so much hotter. 

No one expects a bride to be a virgin but a “good girl” needs to be in a relationship before she gives it up. That way all previous boyfriends failed at the relationship game with you and your husband was the winner. If the hot guy gets it for free then all the nice relationship guys were losers that had to provide additional compensation for the goodies.


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## Mr.Fisty

Romantic love, attachments, and lust are separate drives, that are sometimes connected. You could be in love with one man, be friends with another, and find someone else highly sexual at the same time. Both men and women are capable of this.

Your fling partner was someone who invoke or motivated your lust center greatly, but did not fire the attachment as much, or the romantic love as much. Your husband probably fires all three system, but he does not fire the lust center of your brain like your fling partner. If you have male friends, they probably just light up your attachment center.

People that have FWB's probably have their attachment center light up, and their lust center light up, but the romantic love is not lighting up. They might find each other attractive, but they know that they are not compatible enough to make a relationship last, so hence, friends with benefits.

In all honesty, your husband probably does not light up the lust center as much as your fling partner does, and he is jealous of the fact.

Evolutionary psychiatrists find that men prefer more of the virginal bride type as a wife. They will date females that they find promiscuous, and if your husband found a woman that he found highly attractive throw herself at him, there is a high probability he would go for it. He would mostly have sex with her as much as he can, but the odds of him giving her a commitment is lower as some research has shown.

Studies have shown that society has placed more value in women that men find more virginal, pure,clean, and so on and so on.

Your instincts may be right about your husband. He may be fine having a sexual relationship with you, but if your not as virginal as he believes, there is a decent probability that he would not have married you. He likely would not have seen you as wife material, but yes, he was okay with having sex with you. Even though it is likely, he never got the chance to make that decision.

Take any single male you know, and if a female that he finds attractive ask him to have sex with her, what is the percentage of yes it would be, and there is a high probability that your husband would fall into that category as well. Your fling partner had such an opportunity like that.

Ask your husband, if you offered him sex, what are the chances that he would have sex with you before getting to know you, forming a strong relationship. Research shows that men are more opportunistic when it comes to sex, and females tend to fall on the more selective side.

But, your husband does feel inferior, because he did not fire your lust center as easily as your fling partner. His pride and ego are bruised as well. He may now be competing with your past. If he cannot get past this, and have the both of you talk in an honest manner, he may need help. He may see you as less as well.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

Graywolf2 said:


> Let me answer your question. Did you have sex with your future husband on your first date? My guess is no. Why didn’t you? The hot guy had you for a week with no date. The following excerpts from your previous posts explain why your husband is upset.
> 
> 
> 
> There is an old saying that men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love. I cringe when a WW tells her BH that her OM was only sex and that she loves and wants to grow old with her husband. She says that because that’s what she would want to hear if the positions were reversed. What she doesn’t realize is that while the relationship is most important to her men don’t always feel the same way.
> 
> *Comment added by Frazzled
> 
> It may have been "just sex" in your fling, but if your husband feels that sex forms the ultimate CONNECTION between two people, IT AIN'T JUST SEX TO HIM!!*
> 
> _
> Your husband had to pay full price for your goodies while the hot guy got them for free because he was so much hotter. _
> :iagree:
> No one expects a bride to be a virgin but a “good girl” needs to be in a relationship before she gives it up. That way all previous boyfriends failed at the relationship game with you and your husband was the winner. If the hot guy gets it for free then all the nice relationship guys were losers that had to provide additional compensation for the goodies.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

The speed some people dismiss the feelings of the husband in this type of cases without having a clear understanding of the situation is astounding. 

This is just one more of those cases. Husband has the notion that he was plan B and he understood it correctly. He probably had to work at it to get this woman (while she played the "decent girl" routine) while she offered herself to this other mutual acquaintance in exchange for nothing. 

Quite honestly he is feeling like a sucker. That's the main issue. There is a reason why he didn't know about this affair. It was deliberately hidden from him. There is no going around that. 

And the OP knew she had to omit this sexual romp in order to keep her plan B in place. She allowed this husband to create the "good wife" image because it suited her. Because she knew what he was searching for. She manipulated the situation and it just blew up in her face. 

This, Emma24, is what you need to hear. People in this thread just dismissing your husband feelings will be of no help to you, because they don't understand him. I do... My bet is that he won't divorce you for this, but you better not lie or omit very important information to this man any more. He is reshaping his idea of you. And if you allow him to paint you as a lying manipulative woman you will never earn his trust back. 

Quite honestly he is thinking he was fooled into marrying you. What you do now is to be the wife he wants you to be, so that he still feels you are worth it. It will take time...

And for the love of all you hold dear, don't ever describe that other guy like you did here to your husband. Reading that description i got the distinct feeling that you would drop your husband ASAP if that guy returned. And if i got it that way, your husband will probably fear it 10x.


----------



## Jasel

BrutalHonesty said:


> The speed some people dismiss the feelings of the husband in this type of cases without having a clear understanding of the situation is astounding.
> 
> This is just one more of those cases. Husband has the notion that he was plan B and he understood it correctly. He probably had to work at it to get this woman (while she played the "decent girl" routine) while she offered herself to this other mutual acquaintance in exchange for nothing.
> 
> Quite honestly he is feeling like a sucker. That's the main issue. There is a reason why he didn't know about this affair. It was deliberately hidden from him. There is no going around that.
> 
> And the OP knew she had to omit this sexual romp in order to keep her plan B in place. She allowed this husband to create the "good wife" image because it suited her. Because she knew what he was searching for. She manipulated the situation and it just blew up in her face.
> 
> This, Emma24, is what you need to hear. People in this thread just dismissing your husband feelings will be of no help to you, because they don't understand him. I do... My bet is that he won't divorce you for this, but you better not lie or omit very important information to this man any more. He is reshaping his idea of you. And if you allow him to paint you as a lying manipulative woman you will never earn his trust back.
> 
> Quite honestly he is thinking he was fooled into marrying you. What you do now is to be the wife he wants you to be, so that he still feels you are worth it. It will take time...
> 
> And for the love of all you hold dear, don't ever describe that other guy like you did here to your husband. Reading that description i got the distinct feeling that you would drop your husband ASAP if that guy returned. And if i got it that way, your husband will probably fear it 10x.


While I understand and kind of agree with the general premise of your 2nd and 3rd paragraph as well as how they might relate to how her husband might feel(plan B). There was no affair to speak of. She had a fling with some guy before she was even dating her husband. She did absolutely nothing wrong. She didn't cheat, she didn't betray anyone, etc. All she did was have intense feelings for a guy briefly that in the end went absolutely nowhere and that was the end of it. Again, all of which happened before she was involved with her husband. She doesn't have anything to feel guilty or apologize for.

It sounds like she's already told him the truth about this guy after those pictures were sent. I do think it was probably a bit of a mistake for her to tell her husband how intense her feelings were for the guy, but to me the one who has to deal with her husbands feelings regarding this are her husband. I think Emma should help him work through his feelings, but from a place of support and not undeserved guilt.

It also sounds like her husband projected his own feelings of what a "good girl" his wife should have been and seems to think her sexual history should have automatically synced up in a way that made him comfortable. In which case he was either being naive, insecure or somewhat immature.

I'm not saying he doesn't have the right to his own feelings, but taking them out on his wife was unfair.


----------



## Emma24

Mr.Fisty said:


> Romantic love, attachments, and lust are separate drives, that are sometimes connected. You could be in love with one man, be friends with another, and find someone else highly sexual at the same time. Both men and women are capable of this.
> 
> Your fling partner was someone who invoke or motivated your lust center greatly, but did not fire the attachment as much, or the romantic love as much. Your husband probably fires all three system, but he does not fire the lust center of your brain like your fling partner. If you have male friends, they probably just light up your attachment center.
> 
> People that have FWB's probably have their attachment center light up, and their lust center light up, but the romantic love is not lighting up. They might find each other attractive, but they know that they are not compatible enough to make a relationship last, so hence, friends with benefits.
> 
> In all honesty, your husband probably does not light up the lust center as much as your fling partner does, and he is jealous of the fact.
> 
> Evolutionary psychiatrists find that men prefer more of the virginal bride type as a wife. They will date females that they find promiscuous, and if your husband found a woman that he found highly attractive throw herself at him, there is a high probability he would go for it. He would mostly have sex with her as much as he can, but the odds of him giving her a commitment is lower as some research has shown.
> 
> Studies have shown that society has placed more value in women that men find more virginal, pure,clean, and so on and so on.
> 
> Your instincts may be right about your husband. He may be fine having a sexual relationship with you, but if your not as virginal as he believes, there is a decent probability that he would not have married you. He likely would not have seen you as wife material, but yes, he was okay with having sex with you. Even though it is likely, he never got the chance to make that decision.
> 
> Take any single male you know, and if a female that he finds attractive ask him to have sex with her, what is the percentage of yes it would be, and there is a high probability that your husband would fall into that category as well. Your fling partner had such an opportunity like that.
> 
> Ask your husband, if you offered him sex, what are the chances that he would have sex with you before getting to know you, forming a strong relationship. Research shows that men are more opportunistic when it comes to sex, and females tend to fall on the more selective side.
> 
> But, your husband does feel inferior, because he did not fire your lust center as easily as your fling partner. His pride and ego are bruised as well. He may now be competing with your past. If he cannot get past this, and have the both of you talk in an honest manner, he may need help. He may see you as less as well.


How do I make him feel secure?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

BrutalHonesty said:


> The speed some people dismiss the feelings of the husband in this type of cases without having a clear understanding of the situation is astounding.
> 
> This is just one more of those cases. Husband has the notion that he was plan B and he understood it correctly. He probably had to work at it to get this woman (while she played the "decent girl" routine) while she offered herself to this other mutual acquaintance in exchange for nothing.
> 
> Quite honestly he is feeling like a sucker. That's the main issue. There is a reason why he didn't know about this affair. It was deliberately hidden from him. There is no going around that.
> 
> And the OP knew she had to omit this sexual romp in order to keep her plan B in place. She allowed this husband to create the "good wife" image because it suited her. Because she knew what he was searching for. She manipulated the situation and it just blew up in her face.
> 
> This, Emma24, is what you need to hear. People in this thread just dismissing your husband feelings will be of no help to you, because they don't understand him. I do... My bet is that he won't divorce you for this, but you better not lie or omit very important information to this man any more. He is reshaping his idea of you. And if you allow him to paint you as a lying manipulative woman you will never earn his trust back.
> 
> Quite honestly he is thinking he was fooled into marrying you. What you do now is to be the wife he wants you to be, so that he still feels you are worth it. It will take time...
> 
> And for the love of all you hold dear, don't ever describe that other guy like you did here to your husband. Reading that description i got the distinct feeling that you would drop your husband ASAP if that guy returned. And if i got it that way, your husband will probably fear it 10x.


Well your distinct feeling is wrong. Because i will never leave my husband for anyone and neither he was Plan B.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr.Fisty

By the way, some posters I think believe that you cheated on your husband.

Some are angry that you had a sexual relationship that was based on sexual attraction. I am indifferent since I had them myself, and witnessed a lot of them in college, and in spring break several years back.

Some posters feel that it is unfair that your husband had to have a committed relationship with you to have sex, and if the other guy got to have sex without a commitment, so should your husband as well.

It is like stating because one guy got it, why not me as well.

Some posters believe that your only with your husband because the other guy was not committed to you, so you gave your husband a chance, and would likely leave him if the other guy returned.

The truth for me is, your husband may not be as sexually attractive as the other guy, but the more you dated and gotten to know your husband, the more qualities about him that you found attractive, and could be worth a committed relationship with.

You, yourself, may not be the most sexually attractive female that your husband was interested in either. It was a combination of factors that made him choose to want to marry you.

Hypothetically speaking, lets say that you and your husband divorced and you got married to another man. Your new husband found out that you did light bondage with your ex-husband, and is now angry and jealous that you do not do it as often with him, where your ex got to do it routinely. Lets also say with your ex, you had sex 6 times a week on average, while your new current husband got 4 times. Some would believe that you would owe your new husband the same as your ex-husband.

Only thing you can do is support him through this, you cannot fix this issue for him. It is something he has to overcome. If he cannot, try therapy.


----------



## JCD

Emma24 said:


> Well your distinct feeling is wrong. Because i will never leave my husband for anyone and neither he was Plan B.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This might be true. You might never leave your husband for anyone.

OR...you might believe this is true.

I will state that it's true.

Do you think your husband believes if Mr. Hotness comes back, with big pocket full of cash, a high status job and pledges his undying devotion, that you would not leave?

He is not sure. In fact, in the beginning, he probably believed you WOULD leave.

How do you prove it?

Well, here is the problem. You lied by omission, in his eyes. Something HE felt was important, you kept from him.

So it is a small step for him to believe you would lie about this. So your word isn't as good as it once was.

Why does he feel this way?

You described the incredible feeling for Mr. Hotness, the color of his eyes, the way he moved, the feelings he put into your heart.

You described your husband as old. (9 years older)

That gave me a doubt. It gave your husband many more.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

> There was no affair to speak of. She had a fling with some guy before she was even dating her husband. She did absolutely nothing wrong.


Yes, there was no affair. But i'm going to disagree on the "nothing wrong" part. She had to know that this relationship with this other dude would mess up things between her and her husband if it came to light. She chose to not volunteer that information. And she did that because she was fully aware of the possibility that this would cloud things regarding the "good girl" image she was creating. Her husband didn't just make up that image. He was led to believe in it. 

Other than that, she is totally guilt free.



> Well your distinct feeling is wrong. Because i will never leave my husband for anyone and neither he was Plan B.


It is irrelevant for me to discuss that with you. What matters is what your husband thinks and how he views the situation. To help you i had to say what you need to know for you to help him through it. There is no need for you to get defensive about it. The past is something that cannot be changed, but the perception of it sure can, as you can see now, with your husband. He thinks most of what he lived with you was a lie. 

I'm not saying this to try and be mean to you. I'm genuinely trying to help you. And to do that i won't sugarcoat it. Sugarcoating is what got you into your present situation.


----------



## Emma24

JCD said:


> This might be true. You might never leave your husband for anyone.
> 
> OR...you might believe this is true.
> 
> I will state that it's true.
> 
> Do you think your husband believes if Mr. Hotness comes back, with big pocket full of cash, a high status job and pledges his undying devotion, that you would not leave?
> 
> He is not sure. In fact, in the beginning, he probably believed you WOULD leave.
> 
> How do you prove it?
> 
> Well, here is the problem. You lied by omission, in his eyes. Something HE felt was important, you kept from him.
> 
> So it is a small step for him to believe you would lie about this. So your word isn't as good as it once was.
> 
> Why does he feel this way?
> 
> You described the incredible feeling for Mr. Hotness, the color of his eyes, the way he moved, the feelings he put into your heart.
> 
> You described your husband as old. (9 years older)
> 
> That gave me a doubt. It gave your husband many more.


Describing him in a way makes me attracted to him? :O
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Emma, what are the qualities about your husband make him a good life partner for you? Now describe the things about your husband that make you lust after him? Now describe the feelings inside of you that you feel when you are around him?

Men take pride in being able to care and protect their women. Men take pride in being able to support their family well. But men want to be desired in the same way that women do. My wife had other boyfriends before we married. My wife had other lovers before we married. But I don't think of them, especially when she looks at me with wanton desire in her eyes and I know that at that moment she wants only me and no other man in the universe can satisfy her. In my mind that is what your husband needs to hear. Not how well of a provider he is but how you get weak in the knees whenever he is around.


----------



## Graywolf2

Jasel said:


> She had a fling with some guy before she was even dating her husband. She did absolutely nothing wrong. She didn't cheat, she didn't betray anyone, etc. She doesn't have anything to feel guilty or apologize for.


:iagree: But that isn't the issue.



Graywolf2 said:


> Did you have sex with your future husband on your first date? My guess is no.


Since the OP didn’t answer this question I will assume my guess was correct. She keeps writing about how handsome and what a great guy her husband is. If that’s true then why didn’t she have sex with him on the first date? The answer is that her future husband was obviously marriage material. 

Consciously or unconsciously you don’t give it up quickly to a potential husband. You want him to think that your goodies are special and worth the investment in time and effort. 

I think that the OP was usually a “good girl” in that she normally required some relationship in return for her favors. The hot guy was a perfect storm. First he was hot and secondly his actions and words made it quite clear that there was absolutely no future with him. In this very unusual situation there was no reason for her to hold her goodies in reserve as she normally would. 

OP, the first thing you need to do is stop telling your husband how handsome he is. When you do he’s thinking “Sure but not as handsome as the hot guy.” Also stop overtly telling him that you will be his forever. When you do that he’s thinking “Until the hot guy comes back.”

Instead concentrate on where your husband is the winner. Your husband is a winner because he’s with you now and the hot guy isn’t. When you enjoy doing everyday things with him make sure he knows. In other words tell him about the companionship you enjoy. Show affection during the day. Rub his neck or squeeze his hand. 

You said you were submissive. Give him good sex whenever he wants it. *Do NOT close your eyes during sex. * You don't want your husband to think you might be imagining the hot guy. Look your husband in the eyes and smile. Time will make things better.


----------



## Emma24

Graywolf2 said:


> :iagree: But that isn't the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Since the OP didn’t answer this question I will assume my guess was correct. She keeps writing about how handsome and what a great guy her husband is. If that’s true then why didn’t she have sex with him on the first date? The answer is that her future husband was obviously marriage material.
> 
> Consciously or unconsciously you don’t give it up quickly to a potential husband. You want him to think that your goodies are special and worth the investment in time and effort.
> 
> I think that the OP was usually a “good girl” in that she normally required some relationship in return for her favors. The hot guy was a perfect storm. First he was hot and secondly his actions and words made it quite clear that there was absolutely no future with him. In this very unusual situation there was no reason for her to hold her goodies in reserve as she normally would.
> 
> OP, the first thing you need to do is stop telling your husband how handsome he is. When you do he’s thinking “Sure but not as handsome as the hot guy.” Also stop overtly telling him that you will be his forever. When you do that he’s thinking “Until the hot guy comes back.”
> 
> Instead concentrate on where your husband is the winner. Your husband is a winner because he’s with you now and the hot guy isn’t. When you enjoy doing everyday things with him make sure he knows. In other words tell him about the companionship you enjoy. Show affection during the day. Rub his neck or squeeze his hand.
> 
> You said you were submissive. Give him good sex whenever he wants it. *Do NOT close your eyes during sex. * You don't want your husband to think you might be imagining the hot guy. Look your husband in the eyes and smile. Time will make things better.


Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happy as a clam

Emma24 said:


> *Whoever took the photos was probably at the airport* because he kissed me there. He had dragged me along because he wanted to see me for the last time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow! This thread really has taken on an "espionage/spy" twist!

OP, are we to believe that someone followed you to the airport, snapped pictures of the two of you kissing, only to be used years later in a FUTURE blackmail attempt on a FUTURE husband?

:scratchhead:

None of this makes sense.


----------



## altawa

happy as a clam said:


> Wow! This thread really has taken on an "espionage/spy" twist!
> 
> OP, are we to believe that someone followed you to the airport, snapped pictures of the two of you kissing, only to be used years later in a FUTURE blackmail attempt on a FUTURE husband?
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> None of this makes sense.


Yeah, I said a few days ago that something smells weird/doesn't add up. I mean, lets be honest, who does this crap?


----------



## happy as a clam

altawa said:


> Yeah, I said a few days ago that something smells weird/doesn't add up. I mean, lets be honest, *who does this crap?*


Well, I COULD answer this question, but best if I keep "clammed up" about it.

:rofl:


----------



## Emma24

happy as a clam said:


> Wow! This thread really has taken on an "espionage/spy" twist!
> 
> OP, are we to believe that someone followed you to the airport, snapped pictures of the two of you kissing, only to be used years later in a FUTURE blackmail attempt on a FUTURE husband?
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> None of this makes sense.


Its up to you. Either you take it as a comic book story or take it genuinely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> Its up to you. Either you take it as a comic book story or take it genuinely.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What about a genuine comic book story?


----------



## easysolution

Just gonna throw it out there...
*_drum roll_*
Husband took the photos.


----------



## JCD

I can't walk anywhere without some fool snapping a picture with his phone.

It seems incredible that some took a snap, particularly when Hotness was meeting other guys?

Please :roll eyes:


----------



## JCD

Emma24 said:


> Describing him in a way makes me attracted to him? :O
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't write your OP. YOU did.

But maybe I am mistaken. What did this mean?



> He was a extremely handsome and a very mysterious man and I admit we had a strange connection since the day I met him.
> Whenever I would meet him, I would go lost into his eyes and would find myself staring at him , even forgetting what I had to say to him.
> It was he, who would start the conversation, but even he suffered from the same thing I used to suffer from.
> Our eyes would meet whenever we were around.


It SOUNDS like you were attracted to him. Do you have a week of sex with people you are NOT attracted to?

By your words and your actions, you have SHOWN us you were attracted to him.

Now you want to pretend you didn't write that or that you were tongue tied because he was hideous and it was pity sex?

But it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what your husband thinks.

He thinks you are wildly attracted to him too.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

Emma24, maybe i can make this a bit clearer. Look at the descriptions you gave for both men:

Husband:



> My husband and I have an age difference of 9 years. But he is a very nice guy, very good looking, helping, understanding and affectionate and I love him a lot.



Other guy:



> He was a extremely handsome and a very mysterious man and I admit we had a strange connection since the day I met him.
> Whenever I would meet him, I would go lost into his eyes and would find myself staring at him , even forgetting what I had to say to him.
> 
> ...
> 
> I was so insanely attracted to him and his eyes (i still remember he had really alluring light brown eyes) that I agreed to all his demands.



Do you see the problem here? Even right now, to a bunch of internet strangers, while exposing the problem you describe this other guy with all masturbatory qualities and your husband... is the nice looking good guy. 

And this is the problem right there that some people are having with all of this. Even now, at the distance of time, you look more into this other guy than your husband. And if we got this, your husband got it too. 

You seem to have a dichotomy going on, where you know what the "good wife" should be saying and what your base animal instinct still craves. That is a recipe for trouble. 

If this other guy re-enters the picture this will all going to get assayed and in the end your marriage will be in danger. And now, your husband knows this and he is having trouble coping with it.


----------



## samyeagar

For me, and I suspect a large number of men, I would rather my wife think I am an ok husband in the provider, protector, father role, and wet panty hot than amazingly awesome in the provider, protector, father role, but just ok in triggering her raw lust.


----------



## WonkyNinja

samyeagar said:


> For me, and I suspect a large number of men, I would rather my wife think I am an ok husband in the provider, protector, father role, and wet panty hot than amazingly awesome in the provider, protector, father role, but just ok in triggering her raw lust.


:iagree: This is so well put. 


About your fling you have said:



> I was so insanely attracted to him and his eyes (i still remember he had really alluring light brown eyes) that I agreed to all his demands. He wanted to stay with me for a week and we did, mostly having sex most of the time.
> He never let me out of his sight and for a week, I stayed in with him at his house. The day he was leaving, he kissed me many times and left.





> I admit I was madly attracted to him.
> I don't know what he had in him but it was really intense.


about your husband:



> I forgot about it and got into a relationship with my boyfriend whom I always liked and I knew he liked me too(now my husband)
> We got married a year later.





> Yes I was friends with my husband before we got together





> I was not in a relationship with my now husband when had the fling, we were friends that time.





> If I told him before marriage, I doubt he would have married me considering his behaviour now


The opinion I got from this was that while fling was around you were hot and turned on and your husband was "friendzoned" but then he left so you decided on the safe settling down option.

You did nothing wrong having the fling but if you intentionally withheld that from your husband knowing that he would not like it then that was very wrong. 

No man wants to be the "settling down option" any more than a woman wants to be a "good homemaker" and "puts on a nice dinner party". She wants her husband to be attracted to her and really want her and it's just the same from a mans point of view. 

If you told him everything that you've put above and he now has the opinion he was the safe option then he is probably hurting and you have an uphill battle to convince him otherwise.

I do wish you luck.


----------



## happy as a clam

Can you post the pics so we can assess the real damage?

Maybe this is ALL in your head...


----------



## Cynthia

happy as a clam said:


> Can you post the pics so we can assess the real damage?
> 
> Maybe this is ALL in your head...


It is unlikely that the photo is the real problem. The problem is the description she gave her husband to explain the photo.


----------



## happy as a clam

CynthiaDe said:


> It is unlikely that the photo is the real problem. The problem is the description she gave her husband to explain the photo.


:iagree:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

Yesterday, my husband proposed the idea that I should do the exact same thing with him which I did with the fling guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## altawa

And, you are here writing to us about it, so I can guess what the answer was.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

Emma24 said:


> Yesterday, my husband proposed the idea that I should do the exact same thing with him which I did with the fling guy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't understand why you never did these things with your hubby anyway xx


----------



## Nucking Futs

D.H Mosquito said:


> I can't understand why you never did these things with your hubby anyway xx


Because hubby doesn't turn her on like fling guy. He's a beta provider, not a stud muffin.


----------



## syhoybenden

D.H Mosquito said:


> I can't understand why you never did these things with your hubby anyway xx


Perhaps because she has never lusted for her poor husband as she has for mister brown-eyes.

For her husband it's more obligatory ... you know, duty sex.

If not, don't you think that when he proposed it she should have just grabbed him by the lapels and dragged him into the bedroom?


----------



## JCD

As the women will no doubt tell us, it's not sexy if it's an obligation.

And according to TAM feminist doctrine, she owes her husband nothing. In fact, she should shoot it down in principle.

Forget that it might heal a small rift in her marriage. Forget that she needs to live with the marital consequences of THEIR principles.

**

Here is what you do Emma:

You apologize. And while I concede you did NOTHING wrong, what you are really saying is 'While I am not responsible this pain, I CAN be sympathetic to your hurts and try to make them better.' When my kid scuffs his knee, I don't tell him it's his own fault. I put a Band-Aid on it and say comforting words and try to make it better.

Don't live like a dog, but what is the harm in some sympathy and comforting?

The principle is not THAT important.

But that 'do for me what you did for him', it's already too late if you haven't said yes already. If you needed to think about it, that told you hubby all he needed to know. Now it will look like pity sex.

Sorry.


----------



## Cynthia

Emma24 said:


> Yesterday, my husband proposed the idea that I should do the exact same thing with him which I did with the fling guy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And what was your response?
Does he want to spend a week doing nothing, but making love?
Or are there things you did with the fling guy that you don't do with your husband?
Did you tell your husband all the things you did with fling guy?


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

samyeagar said:


> For me, and I suspect a large number of men, I would rather my wife think I am an ok husband in the provider, protector, father role, and wet panty hot than amazingly awesome in the provider, protector, father role, but just ok in triggering her raw lust.


I feel that way too...

as a woman, not as a man. 

But in all seriousness. I would rather my SO look at me with more raw lust then a good feminine role.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

JCD said:


> As the women will no doubt tell us, it's not sexy if it's an obligation.
> 
> And according to TAM feminist doctrine, she owes her husband nothing. In fact, she should shoot it down in principle.
> 
> Forget that it might heal a small rift in her marriage. Forget that she needs to live with the marital consequences of THEIR principles.
> 
> **
> 
> Here is what you do Emma:
> 
> You apologize. And while I concede you did NOTHING wrong, what you are really saying is 'While I am not responsible this pain, I CAN be sympathetic to your hurts and try to make them better.' When my kid scuffs his knee, I don't tell him it's his own fault. I put a Band-Aid on it and say comforting words and try to make it better.
> 
> Don't live like a dog, but what is the harm in some sympathy and comforting?
> 
> The principle is not THAT important.
> 
> But that 'do for me what you did for him', it's already too late if you haven't said yes already. If you needed to think about it, that told you hubby all he needed to know. Now it will look like pity sex.
> 
> Sorry.


I agree with you.

I don't think the "feminist doctrine on TAM" is so different.

Obligating herself to do it as a duty is not what either wants.

But having empathy like you said should be the goal.

I think that women tend to go first for the "you aren't obligated" because we are women and that is what we focus on first. But I don't think the goals are that different. Yes, the empathy part you write should be more emphasized when women here right that. 

But I don't think it is in such opposition.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> For me, and I suspect a large number of men, I would rather my wife think I am an ok husband in the provider, protector, father role, and wet panty hot than amazingly awesome in the provider, protector, father role, but just ok in triggering her raw lust.



I agree. That's all we want. But, assuming she does lust her H, how does she make him feel this now that he knows about Mr. Browneyes? Can he ever really believe it?


----------



## BrutalHonesty

Emma24 said:


> Yesterday, my husband proposed the idea that I should do the exact same thing with him which I did with the fling guy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why does he even have to propose this? Why wasn't this offered even before this whole debacle? 

No real need to answer, those above are rhetorical questions.


----------



## I Don't Know

I will hazard a guess that the OP didn't "offer" with the OM either. The OM told her "here's the deal" and she said "ok". I doubt her H has tried to make this happen like the OM did.


----------



## Emma24

JCD said:


> As the women will no doubt tell us, it's not sexy if it's an obligation.
> 
> And according to TAM feminist doctrine, she owes her husband nothing. In fact, she should shoot it down in principle.
> 
> Forget that it might heal a small rift in her marriage. Forget that she needs to live with the marital consequences of THEIR principles.
> 
> **
> 
> Here is what you do Emma:
> 
> You apologize. And while I concede you did NOTHING wrong, what you are really saying is 'While I am not responsible this pain, I CAN be sympathetic to your hurts and try to make them better.' When my kid scuffs his knee, I don't tell him it's his own fault. I put a Band-Aid on it and say comforting words and try to make it better.
> 
> Don't live like a dog, but what is the harm in some sympathy and comforting?
> 
> The principle is not THAT important.
> 
> But that 'do for me what you did for him', it's already too late if you haven't said yes already. If you needed to think about it, that told you hubby all he needed to know. Now it will look like pity sex.
> 
> Sorry.


I have apologized many times and I did once again, yesterday.

And I also agreed to his proposal. Initially, he became reluctant because I am pregnant but later on he got on with it.

Its not that I pity him or don't find him desirable. I do. 
Its just that our problems make me feel low and depressed all the time and I dont find myself interested or enthusiastic about anything, anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cynthia

Emma24 said:


> Its not that I pity him or don't find him desirable. I do.
> Its just that our problems make me feel low and depressed all the time and I dont find myself interested or enthusiastic about anything, anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you mean the problems that you have posted about in this thread regarding the photos or is there something else going on that has caused you to feel depressed about your marriage?


----------



## Emma24

CynthiaDe said:


> Do you mean the problems that you have posted about in this thread regarding the photos or is there something else going on that has caused you to feel depressed about your marriage?


Yes. I have tried all I could to make him happy but none seems to work. My husband has been going through mood swings, sometimes he is nice and sometimes he ignores me.

All this makes me really depressed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cynthia

Emma24 said:


> Yes. I have tried all I could to make him happy but none seems to work. My husband has been going through mood swings, sometimes he is nice and sometimes he ignores me.
> 
> All this makes me really depressed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, which one? 
a) the problems that you have posted about in this thread regarding the photos
b)something else going on that has caused you to feel depressed about your marriage

I'm still unclear on whether this is all from the photos or if there was something already happening before the photos surfaced.


----------



## Emma24

CynthiaDe said:


> Yes, which one?
> a) the problems that you have posted about in this thread regarding the photos
> b)something else going on that has caused you to feel depressed about your marriage
> 
> I'm still unclear on whether this is all from the photos or if there was something already happening before the photos surfaced.


This started from the photos and the revelation of my past.
Before this, there were no issues and we were happy together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mostlycontent

Emma24 said:


> How do I make him feel secure?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There must be some reason why you chose your husband over this former fling. Tell him what it is. And I don't mean that you tell him you chose him because he is more stable or because he has a better job. It needs to be something the other guy can't compete with and it needs to be something physical about him.

It can be that he has great eyes or that he's got a wonderful physique or that he's incredibly sexy or he really knows how to use his tongue or ..... whatever.

I had a similar circumstance years ago. My W dated a guy about a year before she met me and she was wildly attracted to us both. After we were married, that fact began to bother me. Even though she dumped the other guy and later dated me, I felt like I was competing with the once strong attraction she had for him.

When I spoke to her about it, she told me that I was the total package (Lex Luger reference there) for her and because I wasn't riddled with emotional issues like her previous boyfriend apparently was. Even though she chose me, it still bothered me that she felt seemingly equal attraction for this other guy. What if her attraction for him was actually stronger but just not strong enough to overcome all of his emotional problems. It began to really bother me.

Well she then said the one thing that made me forget about it altogether. She said that I had a bigger "package". Once she told me this, I felt somewhat superior to this former boyfriend and knew that no matter what she may have felt for him prior to our relationship, he didn't have anything on me. Yes, that's the male ego at work and yes, I'm sure it's silly to some ladies but I no longer thought about this potential issue after that. 

By the way, this was before the internet and message boards like this one, so my W either got the idea to tell me this from an article in Cosmo or she was telling me the truth.

Since my W has never made any issue or any particular fuss about penis size and never read Cosmo to my recollection , I can only assume the latter. Even still, I really don't care because it freed me from the mental obsession I was fast developing. 

So tell your husband something similar to free him from his obsession. If he has a bigger or better "package" then by all means tell him. Heck, even if he doesn't perhaps you should tell him that anyway. I promise you, that would work.


----------



## altawa

Mostlycontent said:


> There must be some reason why you chose your husband over this former fling. Tell him what it is. And I don't mean that you tell him you chose him because he is more stable or because he has a better job. It needs to be something the other guy can't compete with and it needs to be something physical about him.
> 
> It can be that he has great eyes or that he's got a wonderful physique or that he's incredibly sexy or he really knows how to use his tongue or ..... whatever.
> 
> I had a similar circumstance years ago. My W dated a guy about a year before she met me and she was wildly attracted to us both. After we were married, that fact began to bother me. Even though she dumped the other guy and later dated me, I felt like I was competing with the once strong attraction she had for him.
> 
> When I spoke to her about it, she told me that I was the total package (Lex Luger reference there) for her and because I wasn't riddled with emotional issues like her previous boyfriend apparently was. Even though she chose me, it still bothered me that she felt seemingly equal attraction for this other guy. What if her attraction for him was actually stronger but just not strong enough to overcome all of his emotional problems. It began to really bother me.
> 
> Well she then said the one thing that made me forget about it altogether. She said that I had a bigger "package". Once she told me this, I felt somewhat superior to this former boyfriend and knew that no matter what she may have felt for him prior to our relationship, he didn't have anything on me. Yes, that's the male ego at work and yes, I'm sure it's silly to some ladies but I no longer thought about this potential issue after that.
> 
> By the way, this was before the internet and message boards like this one, so my W either got the idea to tell me this from an article in Cosmo or she was telling me the truth.
> 
> Since my W has never made any issue or any particular fuss about penis size and never read Cosmo to my recollection , I can only assume the latter. Even still, I really don't care because it freed me from the mental obsession I was fast developing.
> 
> So tell your husband something similar to free him from his obsession. If he has a bigger or better "package" then by all means tell him. Heck, even if he doesn't perhaps you should tell him that anyway. I promise you, that would work.


Be careful with that. If it isn't the truth, don't lie to him. He already doesn't trust you and will be doubting anything you tell him. What is the real reason you DID choose your husband?


----------



## JCD

There is no quick fix.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

I will give my own story as I went through something similar.

When I was friends with my now current fiance, I entered into a week long relationship with a man when I moved to a different state. I ended up moving out of that state shortly as my plans I had there feel apart. When they did fall apart, I had a lot of time to myself and one of my best friends suggested I go out on a date with one of her friends. I dragged my feet on it but we ended up having a great time together this guy and I. It was nothing serious, I knew we would not work out in a real relationship, but I enjoyed having fun as a way to balance out the stress I had from my plans not working out.

My then fiance was not in a relationship with me, when I told him why I had moved back out, he wanted to know why. I told him everything without thinking it would be a problem.

Fast forward a few years. When we do start dating, a song comes up on the radio. Daft Punk's "Get Lucky". I start singing along and my usually calm fiance went NUTS. He swore up and down I was thinking about the other guy. I immediately wanted to brush him off. The first time we just ended up getting in a bad argument where I thought he was crazy and he thought I was lusting after someone else.

Just like JCD said, it was not a quick fix. It took multiple talks where I had to keep my cool time after time. I realized saying "I love you and not him" wasn't cutting it. He was hung up on desire, not on if I thought he was a stable guy. As a woman, I just could not understand that. I think we would get more upset in it more if a guy was in love with another girl more than if he was lusting after another girl (though that would upset me too..just not as much).

I realized he was feeling undesired. When I started to try to understand how he was feeling and what was bothering him, not if I thought it was logical or not, then I was able to address it more head on. I did everything I could verbally and physically to show that I did indeed desire him. For me that was easy because that was the truth! I had zero desire for that other guy. Trying to convince my fiance that was the truth wasn't working, showing him day in and day out with heightened intention did. 

He then started to soften up and he began to see it from my view. He saw then that he was not being so logical to assume that I was thinking about this other guy because of a song on the radio or whatever else might trigger him. I had to address his *emotional* needs first before the logical side of him was able to come into the discussion. 

Then we both were able to have an honest conversation that set it to rest. Now we both joke about it in a loving way.


----------



## samyeagar

Mostlycontent said:


> There must be some reason why you chose your husband over this former fling. Tell him what it is. And I don't mean that you tell him you chose him because he is more stable or because he has a better job. It needs to be something the other guy can't compete with and it needs to be something physical about him.
> 
> It can be that he has great eyes or that he's got a wonderful physique or that he's incredibly sexy or he really knows how to use his tongue or ..... whatever.
> 
> I had a similar circumstance years ago. My W dated a guy about a year before she met me and she was wildly attracted to us both. After we were married, that fact began to bother me. Even though she dumped the other guy and later dated me, I felt like I was competing with the once strong attraction she had for him.
> 
> When I spoke to her about it, she told me that I was the total package (Lex Luger reference there) for her and because I wasn't riddled with emotional issues like her previous boyfriend apparently was. Even though she chose me, it still bothered me that she felt seemingly equal attraction for this other guy. What if her attraction for him was actually stronger but just not strong enough to overcome all of his emotional problems. It began to really bother me.
> 
> Well she then said the one thing that made me forget about it altogether.* She said that I had a bigger "package"*. Once she told me this, I felt somewhat superior to this former boyfriend and knew that no matter what she may have felt for him prior to our relationship, he didn't have anything on me. Yes, that's the male ego at work and yes, I'm sure it's silly to some ladies but I no longer thought about this potential issue after that.
> 
> By the way, this was before the internet and message boards like this one, so my W either got the idea to tell me this from an article in Cosmo or she was telling me the truth.
> 
> Since my W has never made any issue or any particular fuss about penis size and never read Cosmo to my recollection , I can only assume the latter. Even still, I really don't care because it freed me from the mental obsession I was fast developing.
> 
> So tell your husband something similar to free him from his obsession. If he has a bigger or better "package" then by all means tell him. Heck, even if he doesn't perhaps you should tell him that anyway. * I promise you, that would work*.


And for me, it had the opposite affect. I don't give two sh1ts how my size compares...


----------



## Emma24

altawa said:


> Be careful with that. If it isn't the truth, don't lie to him. He already doesn't trust you and will be doubting anything you tell him. What is the real reason you DID choose your husband?


Because I found him really attractive. 
He has the air of mystery and it took me a while to figure him out as person.
He was really intriguing because under the quiet attactive exterior, he was somebody else and that really pulled me towards him.

And to add to his looks, he had everything which any girl would want in her soulmate.
He was really caring, very affectionate. We shared much in common and I can talk to him about everything.

It has never happened that I havent shared my life's troubles with him and he hasnt come up with a great advice.
Plus he has great voice.

Physically he has a great body. TBH. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

I think for me, things like being a good provider, good protector, kind stable husband are very important, but those are the easy things to self validate. There are objective measures. There is a roof over our head, bills paid, food on the table. My wife is safe. I don't yell at her, hit her, I say please and thank you, let her know I appreciate her. I do more than my share of domestic duties to keep the house running. I can see all those things without her having to say a word. They are objectively self evident. The smile on her face when she looks at me tells me all I need to know.

When it comes to her desire for me on the other hand, the raw lust and attraction...that is completely subjective. I can be all those other things, but the only way I can measure her desire is by her telling me in words and showing me in action. Part of the measure is in seeing how her displays of lust for me compare to her displays of lust for others.

Just as a simple example in the power of suggestion in words...calling one guy 'hot' and another guy 'handsome' I would rather be the hot guy to my wife all day long. While being seen as handsome is great, my father is handsome too, and so is my 13 year old son. There is no inherent lust or desire in 'handsome', whereas 'hot'...all there is is lust.


----------



## cons

Yep- the OP is missing the mark...

Her prose exudes enthusiasm and passion when recollecting the other guy...

...But when she describes her husband, her written words come across more as factual that emotive (for example "Physically he has a great body" versus writing something like "My husband's body is hot").


----------



## altawa

cons said:


> Yep- the OP is missing the mark...
> 
> Her prose exudes enthusiasm and passion when recollecting the other guy...
> 
> ...But when she describes her husband, her written words come across more as factual that emotive (for example "Physically he has a great body" versus writing something like "My husband's body is hot").


Exactly, and her husband knows it too. He doesn't know her words here (most likely), but he knows exactly where he stands in relation to this other guy.


----------



## Emma24

Lust is not love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## naiveonedave

Emma24 said:


> Lust is not love.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I need both in my marriage. If there is no lust, there is no passion. If there is no long, then the relationship is just fleeting.


----------



## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> Lust is not love.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are correct, and my mom loves me, my kids love me. 

For myself, I want and need both to be happy in a relationship. The lust and desire from my wife is just as vitally important as love. If I thought my wife felt more intense lust for another man than me, I would no longer care how much she loved me. I would no longer stay in the relationship.


----------



## cons

Emma24 said:


> Lust is not love.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep- again...you're missing the mark.


----------



## samyeagar

cons said:


> Yep- again...you're missing the mark.


If all else was equal in the relationship...my wife loves me, and is IN love with me, the relationship is good, and satisfying for both of us...I would rather her be deeper in lust with me than deeper in love with me.


----------



## Emma24

samyeagar said:


> If all else was equal in the relationship...my wife loves me, and is IN love with me, the relationship is good, and satisfying for both of us...I would rather her be deeper in lust with me than deeper in love with me.


Since lust is so important, when passion & lust are gone, will you stay with your spouse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> Since lust is so important, *when passion & lust are gone, will you stay with your spouse*?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I will not stay with them. However, I see no reason why passion and lust would ever need to be gone.


----------



## naiveonedave

Emma24 said:


> Since lust is so important, when passion & lust are gone, will you stay with your spouse?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If passion and lust are gone, they are no longer a spouse, just another relative and not even a blood relative.


----------



## Emma24

Then where is the love for your spouse? You dont grow old with your partner soley on lust? Do you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> Then where is the love for your spouse? *You dont grow old with your partner soley on lust*? Do you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course not...nor will I grow old with my spouse solely on love.


----------



## naiveonedave

Emma24 said:


> Then where is the love for your spouse? You dont grow old with your partner soley on lust? Do you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It takes both. I expect as we age some of the passion that was sex moves into passion for activities we do together (hobbies, etc.), but if there is not lust, there really is not a marriage, just friendship.


----------



## samyeagar

naiveonedave said:


> It takes both. I expect as we age some of the passion that was sex moves into passion for activities we do together (hobbies, etc.), *but if there is not lust, there really is not a marriage, just friendship*.


Lust is the defining quality of marriage. It's what sets it apart from any other relationship.


----------



## cons

Emma- 

You are arguing way too hard about love being the ONLY necessity in a marital relationship...almost as if you feel lust is a "nice to have"...I would venture to say your husband does not agree with this (nor, IMHO, does he deserve one without the other)...
...I would then argue that if you want to choose to truly love your husband, you would make efforts to nurture the passion and lust for him...because that passion and lust for your husband is what sets him apart from any other man out there...


----------



## Suspecting2014

Emma24 said:


> Then where is the love for your spouse? You dont grow old with your partner soley on lust? Do you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sex is the glue of avery healty marriage. Lust and passion keep sex going on!

Sex is not all that matters, but matters a lot!

IMO your H just want to have what this OM had, nothing more. This means that you should do for real, not out of duty, and in the way that let your H feels that you are glad to do it as you love him, any other way wont work!

Good luck.


----------



## No-redemption

I know its not easy in everyday married life to find the time to continuously have sex for a week. Especially when you are pregnant. But you can use every oppurtunity to have one or two hours for you to show your husband how much you want it with him. For example, you can rise in the morning and surprise him. Or you two can go out for the weekend and book a hotel room for the evening just the two of you. And still you can return back in home on time....

If you are feeling depressed due to your husband reacting negatively to you, you will make your husband more depressed. That will create more doubts in your husband's minds about you. 

Stop this now. 

Be cheerful in front of him. He will thrive on your enthusiasm. And in turn he may surprise you too with affectionate gestures.


----------



## Emma24

cons said:


> Emma-
> 
> You are arguing way too hard about love being the ONLY necessity in a marital relationship...almost as if you feel lust is a "nice to have"...I would venture to say your husband does not agree with this (nor, IMHO, does he deserve one without the other)...
> ...I would then argue that if you want to choose to truly love your husband, you would make efforts to nurture the passion and lust for him...because that passion and lust for your husband is what sets him apart from any other man out there...


I am not arguing. I am trying to say Love is equally important as much as passion is.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

No-redemption said:


> I know its not easy in everyday married life to find the time to continuously have sex for a week. Especially when you are pregnant. But you can use every oppurtunity to have one or two hours for you to show your husband how much you want it with him. For example, you can rise in the morning and surprise him. Or you two can go out for the weekend and book a hotel room for the evening just the two of you. And still you can return back in home on time....
> 
> If you are feeling depressed due to your husband reacting negatively to you, you will make your husband more depressed. That will create more doubts in your husband's minds about you.
> 
> Stop this now.
> 
> Be cheerful in front of him. He will thrive on your enthusiasm. And in turn he may surprise you too with affectionate gestures.


Thanks. I am trying my best. Sometimes he reciprocates my gestures but sometimes he just ignores me and keeps quiet.

His silent treatment is even more painful.
We used to chat late night and when I want to talk to him, he just listens and later dozes off.

I feel I ve lost my husband :'( :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

tdwal said:


> I've been married for 36 years, if I had to rely on passion to keep the marriage going it would have ended many times in the past. Love is a process, its learned, it takes commitment and time.


Yes. Totally agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Lust is biochemistry and mystery.

It is impossible to keep the first, and darned hard to keep the second after decades.

But by the time lust falls away, love, history, experience, appreciation and respect have had decades to gel and harden and support the structure of marriage enough that, if I don't get hard every time she puckers her lips, it doesn't mean I am going to leave her.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but at 9 months...those other aspects aren't there.

Which is why we are so concerned.

You seem intent on saying we are wrong in how we see things. Well, hubby is seeing things the same way. Telling him he's wrong isn't going to cut a lot of ice either.


----------



## Emma24

JCD said:


> Lust is biochemistry and mystery.
> 
> It is impossible to keep the first, and darned hard to keep the second after decades.
> 
> But by the time lust falls away, love, history, experience, appreciation and respect have had decades to gel and harden and support the structure of marriage enough that, if I don't get hard every time she puckers her lips, it doesn't mean I am going to leave her.
> 
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but at 9 months...those other aspects aren't there.
> 
> Which is why we are so concerned.
> 
> You seem intent on saying we are wrong in how we see things. Well, hubby is seeing things the same way. Telling him he's wrong isn't going to cut a lot of ice either.


I dont seem intent. But some do seem intent on proving how I dont love my husband and I still 'love' the fling guy and how I still find him a 'stud' , my husband is my 'safe option' .


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cons

Emma24 said:


> I dont seem intent. But some do seem intent on proving how I dont love my husband and I still 'love' the fling guy and how I still find him a 'stud' , my husband is my 'safe option' .
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you really reading the responses? No one is arguing that you don't love your husband...but we....oops, at least I...don't read in any of your post that you have passion or lust for your husband...which, as many have pointed out, makes your marital relationship closely resemble a mere friendship

And to make matters worse, your passion and lust for a previous partner (albeit only lasting week, physically) has been thrust in front of your husband and now he is hurt/angry/etc. that is it apparent his wife, while she may love him, does not lust after him.


----------



## norajane

Emma24 said:


> I dont seem intent. But some do seem intent on proving how I dont love my husband and I still 'love' the fling guy and how I still find him a 'stud' , my husband is my 'safe option' .
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, Emma. That is actually very typical for TAM. You are not alone.

Wrong or not, consider whether your H might also be feeling that way. I think that's what the guys here are trying to help you understand, rather than just bashing you for an old fling. They're saying they themselves would feel like a loser if they received a pic of their wife kissing an old flame, so your H might also be feeling like that regardless of whether you actually think that.


----------



## Noble1

Maybe more information will be available once the...why now....regarding the picture is discovered.


----------



## I Don't Know

How often do you jump your husband's bones? How often do you have sex? How often do you text him and tell him to hurry home because you need him inside you RIGHT NOW?


----------



## naiveonedave

norajane said:


> They're saying they themselves would feel like a loser if they received a pic of their wife kissing an old flame, so your H might also be feeling like that regardless of whether you actually think that.


If I received such a picture, I would be beyond pissed. I kinda expect those pictures to have been destroyed at engagement/wedding or at least be so buried, they never saw the light of day again.

Also, if you sent it to him or showed him, he really would be questioning your motives and your future.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

This thread is exposing differences in the genders and differences in the way more and less experienced people see lust and love. The differences between the two and the meaning of these and how they fit in together. 

Many women demonstrate "love" in way most men really don't find that convincing. Many men see lust as an objective demonstration of feelings they cannot really see objectively.


----------



## Mostlycontent

BrutalHonesty said:


> This thread is exposing differences in the genders and differences in the way more and less experienced people see lust and love. The differences between the two and the meaning of these and how they fit in together.
> 
> Many women demonstrate "love" in way most men really don't find that convincing. Many men see lust as an objective demonstration of feelings they cannot really see objectively.


I agree with you. Many women do show their love but in ways that just don't resonate with men. Personally, I wouldn't care if my W didn't do a single thing for me all day to demonstrate her love but as soon as the lights went out, it was all she could do not to completely ravage me. 

Most men feel love through physical affection and sex. It's just the way we are made. Consequently, if you wish to demonstrate to a man how much you love and want him and do so in a way that he won't misinterpret, jump his bones and do so frequently.

I would imagine that Emma's husband might not be feeling adequately desired and now also competes with the mental images of his wife constantly jumping the bones of this previous fling.

Whatever Emma may or may not be doing to make her husband feel like the God King, she might want to try something different because obviously, it's not enough.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

BrutalHonesty said:


> This thread is exposing differences in the genders and differences in the way more and less experienced people see lust and love. The differences between the two and the meaning of these and how they fit in together.
> 
> Many women demonstrate "love" in way most men really don't find that convincing. Many men see lust as an objective demonstration of feelings they cannot really see objectively.


Your name is very fitting. I think you cut through all the emotions and got to the heart of the matter.

Doesn't mean that the OP might not want to show her lust more.

But I think you just showed us the key differences in thinking and how it makes seemingly incompatible differences.


----------



## bfree

Emma24 said:


> Lust is not love.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Love without lust is not romantic. You can love your brother but you don't lust after him. If you love your husband like you love your brother you won't have a good marriage.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Emma24 said:


> Thanks. I am trying my best. Sometimes he reciprocates my gestures but sometimes he just ignores me and keeps quiet.
> 
> His silent treatment is even more painful.
> We used to chat late night and when I want to talk to him, he just listens and later dozes off.
> 
> I feel I ve lost my husband :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have my sympathy there. 

The silent treatment really is a horrible way to treat someone.


----------



## bfree

Emma24 said:


> Since lust is so important, when passion & lust are gone, will you stay with your spouse?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Passion and lust are still present in my marriage for almost thirty years. What makes you think they must fade?


----------



## bfree

Emma24 said:


> Then where is the love for your spouse? You dont grow old with your partner soley on lust? Do you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you love your spouse but don't have lust for them your love is incomplete. If you have lust for someone but not love your relationship is unsustainable. If you have both love and lust for someone then you have the makings of a marriage.


----------



## WonkyNinja

naiveonedave said:


> If I received such a picture, I would be beyond pissed. I kinda expect those pictures to have been destroyed at engagement/wedding or at least be so buried, they never saw the light of day again.
> 
> Also, if you sent it to him or showed him, he really would be questioning your motives and your future.


I may have missed something here but I don't think that she has ever been the source, or the taker, of the photo. It just arrived in her mail box one day.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> Lust is biochemistry and mystery.
> 
> It is impossible to keep the first, and darned hard to keep the second after decades.
> 
> But by the time lust falls away, love, history, experience, appreciation and respect have had decades to gel and harden and support the structure of marriage enough that, if I don't get hard every time she puckers her lips, it doesn't mean I am going to leave her.
> 
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but at 9 months...those other aspects aren't there.
> 
> Which is why we are so concerned.
> 
> You seem intent on saying we are wrong in how we see things. Well, hubby is seeing things the same way. Telling him he's wrong isn't going to cut a lot of ice either.


After almost thirty years of marriage I still lust after my wife. I also still get weak in the knees sometimes when we touch. You're right, it's not easy to sustain passion once the mystery is gone. But that's just it. We continue to surprise each other and we continue to grow as individuals. It keeps things interesting and challenging at the same time.


----------



## Chaparral

It seems to me that if the letter was addressed to Emma, it was not intended to upset her husband. It sounds like he opened her mail and accidently found the kissing photo.

My first guess was however he got it, the OM was sending it in order to make a move on her. I would think the husband would have thought that too.

Another thought is people are not reading the OP's posts her accurately and are being quite rude.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

Chaparral said:


> It seems to me that if the letter was addressed to Emma, it was not intended to upset her husband. It sounds like he opened her mail and accidently found the kissing photo.
> 
> My first guess was however he got it, the OM was sending it in order to make a move on her. I would think the husband would have thought that too.
> 
> Another thought is people are not reading the OP's posts her accurately and are being quite rude.


I think we need to tone down the volume as well. I was thinking today about this thread and how I would not allow people to talk to me at this volume in real life. The internet does not make it different. So I would have left long before her. 

That does not mean we should not do tough love at times, or say things she might not want to hear. But the purpose should always to help the OP or help those who may be going through the same situation.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Mostlycontent said:


> There must be some reason why you chose your husband over this former fling. Tell him what it is. And I don't mean that you tell him you chose him because he is more stable or because he has a better job. It needs to be something the other guy can't compete with and it needs to be something physical about him.


Did I misread it? Because my understanding was that the reason she chose her husband over the former fling is because the former fling left and was no longer available.

I thought she was having the week of wild uninhibited sex right up to the time he left for the airport, where she gave him a kiss goodbye (hence the issue of the photos that started this whole thread). The husband wasn't even in consideration until loverboy left town.

If I am reading this correctly, then that is part of the whole problem. Husband may feel like the consolation prize once The Fling was no longer available. It seems to me that many of the posters here believe it could be true, no matter how many times the OP denies it---in part, because OP's denials seem unconvincing to those posters..


----------



## Wolfman1968

Maria Canosa Gargano said:


> I will give my own story as I went through something similar.
> 
> 
> ......
> *I realized he was feeling undesired. When I started to try to understand how he was feeling and what was bothering him, not if I thought it was logical or not, then I was able to address it more head on. I did everything I could verbally and physically to show that I did indeed desire him. For me that was easy because that was the truth! I had zero desire for that other guy. Trying to convince my fiance that was the truth wasn't working, showing him day in and day out with heightened intention did. *


 Maria CG, I think this is the key message that the OP should take to heart. 

She keeps trying to argue with the posters here that their perspectives of love vs lust in the relationship, her demonstrated desire (or lack of, compared to the Fling guy) are wrong or illogical. But as you have experienced, that is not a productive approach.

My challenge to the OP is to follow Maria's approach above. Instead of arguing about the logic of the poster's beliefs about her husband's feelings, just ACCEPT what they say is true, even if it doesn't make sense. After all, the OP's approach is not working, which is why she says she feels she is "losing her husband". So, just maybe, the posters here are right. And maybe, even though it doesn't make sense or logic to you, you ought to just heed their advice, just as Maria did.

I challenge you to just take their word for it. So accept things like:

That, even though you say you love your husband more, the fact that you might reluctantly do sexual activities as a "duty" with your husband whereas you did wanton acts willingly and spontaneously with your fling partner....it's a problem.

That your description of the Fling partner in Adonis-like terms, whlie your description of your husband comes off as much less enthusiastic.....it's a problem.

That you go back and forth with the posters here saying it's better to have love in your marriage because the lust won't last....it's a problem.

That your husband was a just friend and not in contention to become the object of your desire until the Fling Partner left town...that's a problem.

And so on, and so forth, as the posters have stated.

Now, I know you have been arguing with the posters about how they are wrong and illogical, but please stop and instead accept their statements. Even though none of it makes sens to you, and you feel the posters are way off base...just accept what they say is true.

Because your way isn't working too well, it seems. I don't think you can "logic" your husband free of his emotions. I think you should just accpet these points by the poster are true, whether it makes sense to you or not. Then, think to yourself, "if it turns out that what the posters say is true, then what's the next move you should make?" I think you would find yourself in Maria CG's situation. 

I think that if you just accept what the posters say, and act accordingly, you will turn things around just as Maria CG did. It doesn't matter if you agree with their conclusions or not. Just accept that they might have a perspective that you don't.

After all, presumably you came to this board for advice. If your way isn't working with your husband, then you need to seriously consider trying the posters' suggestions, even if it doesn't make sense to you.


----------



## Emma24

I wont accept all these statements which some of you have been giving.
Why should I accept it? I married my husband and I clearly know why I chose him.

Yet comments keep coming up that I chose my husband because the former fling was not available and my husband is my second option.

I came here for advice. How to help my husband get over his trauma. Not to hear people commenting on why I chose my husband and how much the fling guy still means to me.

Just because I honestly described how I used to feel for him does not mean I still love him as some of keep saying.

And some of you have even said I showed the photos to my husband. Hell. If I had seen those photos, I wouldnt have kept them and it would have been burned then and there.

The fling guy was never an option because he had already said he was not available a long time back before we had the fling.
I never had any 'lovely dovey' feelings for him. It was purely physical attraction which does not last if physical attraction is the only thing people see in each other.

And could you stop assuming I have sex with my husband out of 'duty'? 

Sex isnt everything. Maybe for some for you, it is but for me, it isnt. 
There are many ways to show love for a husband/wife than sex.
Even sweet little gestures mean a lot to them .

The entire time I hae been with my hubby, I did a lot of it which made him happy.

Its because of these pictures, his attitude changed. Otherwise he never felt undesirable :-( 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Mostlycontent said:


> Personally, I wouldn't care if my W didn't do a single thing for me all day to demonstrate her love but as soon as the lights went out, it was all she could do not to completely ravage me.
> 
> Most men feel love through physical affection and sex. It's just the way we are made. Consequently, if you wish to demonstrate to a man how much you love and want him and do so in a way that he won't misinterpret, jump his bones and do so frequently.


Have you ever actually tried to live that way.. where your wife does nothing but has sex with you?

While some men will say that sex is all they need from their wife, it usually does not pan out that way. There is a lot more that men need and expect from women. There is a thread here on TAM where this was discussed. Most of the men said that what you suggest is not true for them. It is definitely my personal experience that jumping his bones frequently (daily) is not, does not show enough love to satisfy a man.. there are a gazillion other things too that must be done for them too.

.


----------



## EleGirl

naiveonedave said:


> If I received such a picture, I would be beyond pissed. I kinda expect those pictures to have been destroyed at engagement/wedding or at least be so buried, they never saw the light of day again.
> 
> Also, if you sent it to him or showed him, he really would be questioning your motives and your future.


The OP could not destroy the picture before at engagement/marriage because she did not even know it existed.

From what the OP said, she did not send him the picture. How could she have mailed a picture that was not in her possession.


----------



## JCD

norajane said:


> Yes, Emma. That is actually very typical for TAM. You are not alone.
> 
> Wrong or not, consider whether your H might also be feeling that way. I think that's what the guys here are trying to help you understand, rather than just bashing you for an old fling. They're saying they themselves would feel like a loser if they received a pic of their wife kissing an old flame, so your H might also be feeling like that regardless of whether you actually think that.


And bear in mind that hubby, as a person in their social circle, could see the differences in reaction.

Quick anecdote: I was visiting a work colleague in her office. A stud muffin walked into the room.

She TURNED ON! 

It was CLEARLY obvious that she wanted this guy. She went from professional to giggling schoolgirl in three seconds.

Now, if I were a friend who wanted Emma, I'd be a bit put off by this. "Can't she see I am clearly better than him?" he was asking himself.

But Emma DID choose hubby...so he could tell himself 'Oh...I win! She found my dashing charm and other qualities FAR superior than Mr. Browneye.' 

Now he finds out this is not the case. She found Browneye's charms more than sufficient. Browneye didn't even need to woo her (and yes, that is a BIG DEAL!)

Now, I totally believe Emma when she says she is happy where she is. I believe she loves that amalgamation of qualities that is her husband.

I do NOT believe she wasn't totally infatuated with Browneye, and I am not certain she doesn't have an attraction still.

There is a difference between 'I am not attracted to Browneye' and 'I do not want to throw away everything I have for a fling with someone'. Hubby is hoping for the former but fearing the later.


----------



## EleGirl

Wolfman1968 said:


> Did I misread it? *Because my understanding was that the reason she chose her husband over the former fling is because the former fling left and was no longer available.*
> 
> I thought she was having the week of wild uninhibited sex right up to the time he left for the airport, where she gave him a kiss goodbye (hence the issue of the photos that started this whole thread). The husband wasn't even in consideration until loverboy left town.
> 
> If I am reading this correctly, then that is part of the whole problem. Husband may feel like the consolation prize once The Fling was no longer available. It seems to me that many of the posters here believe it could be true, no matter how many times the OP denies it---in part, because OP's denials seem unconvincing to those posters..


Generally, when one relationship ends, people go on eventually to another relationship. 

So yes her husband was not in consideration at the time she was with the ex. The husband did not come into the picture until later when he and she stared a relationship. 

Is your wife the only woman you ever dated? Or is she a consolation prize? (meaning a relationship that occurred after the very first on you ever had?)


----------



## JCD

Emma24 said:


> I wont accept all these statements which some of you have been giving.
> Why should I accept it? I married my husband and I clearly know why I chose him.


YOU know. Hubby doesn't. He had an idea...but that idea has been called into question.

That is one of many problems.



> Yet comments keep coming up that I chose my husband because the former fling was not available and my husband is my second option.
> 
> The fling guy was never an option because he had already said he was not available a long time back before we had the fling.
> I never had any 'lovely dovey' feelings for him. It was purely physical attraction which does not last if physical attraction is the only thing people see in each other.



Here is an honest question: You seem to have known and wanted Fling Guy for a long time. If I am incorrect, please correct me. If I understand you, when he was leaving and no longer going to be an 'issue', you consented to have sex with him because he wasn't a threat and he wouldn't be around to spread nasty rumors.. I am not criticizing you for this at all. Actually seems a smart way to do it.

Now, from what I understood about your post, during this time, you also knew your husband. He was in your social circle, yes? It SEEMS you knew him for years...just like Fling Guy.

So...if Hubby was such a total dreamboat, why weren't you dating him? Why did you wait?

I ask this not to criticize you. Even if you had very good reasons (you didn't want to marry or date ANYONE at the time, you were in school, you had a bad boyfriend and were getting over him...the list is long), the timeline at the very least makes your husband question the whys.

When Fling was here...Hubby got nothing. When Fling left, HEY, look at that! ANOTHER guy exists! Let's date HIM!

Can you not concede that this LOOKS questionable?

If you can't, there is nothing more to talk about.




> I came here for advice. How to help my husband get over his trauma. Not to hear people commenting on why I chose my husband and how much the fling guy still means to me.
> 
> Just because I honestly described how I used to feel for him does not mean I still love him as some of keep saying.


No. But if that is also how you described him to your husband, I'd feel pretty bad about my wife describing another guy like that, even if she didn't sleep with him. 

And you want advice, but you don't even know _how_ you hurt your husband...and when we TELL you how you hurt your husband, you keep telling us we are wrong. When we tell you the problems, you tell us we are wrong.





> And some of you have even said I showed the photos to my husband. Hell. If I had seen those photos, I wouldnt have kept them and it would have been burned then and there.


SOME of us have reading disabilities or miss things. Ignore this point.




> Sex isnt everything. Maybe for some for you, it is but for me, it isnt.
> There are many ways to show love for a husband/wife than sex.
> Even sweet little gestures mean a lot to them .


Yes. Sweet gestures mean a lot to men. JUST sex isn't enough. Bringing him morning tea. Nicely pressed shirts. Favorite meals. Letting him watch the match on television and bringing him snacks. Rubbing his hair (question...have you ever kissed your husband in public? That is a sweet gesture too...)

Want to know what ELSE men like a lot? SEX. You say it doesn't mean much to you. It DEFINITELY means a lot to a guy. You are wrong...wrong...wrong...wrong. A woman who says sex doesn't mean much...is a woman who is going to have problems in her marriage. Straight up! Full Stop! Do Not Pass Go! Do Not Collect $200!

So when you hit a guy in his sex, it never ends well. Whether it is true or not, Hubby is constantly thinking Fling got more and better.

I can't talk about your bedroom life but if I took your husband out for a drink and got him hammered enough to talk about home, you might be surprised at how 'desired' he ACTUALLY feels.

Some sex is better than no sex...but lots of sex is better than some. You might think you were doing a lot. Does Hubby?


If you took ten minutes looking through our 'Sex in Marriage' thread, you'll find that a constant. Wife or husband wants more sex...and the other person thinks they are doing just fine.

IF your husband felt he wanted more in the bedroom...this photo didn't make things better in his feeling short changed.

Stop telling the MEN that they don't understand the problem your MALE husband is having.

We should stop telling you how you actually feel. That is wrong too!

But you need to stop acting like HOW he sees things is way off base. It isn't.

Every single male is telling you the same thing.

LISTEN!


----------



## bfree

EleGirl said:


> Have you ever actually tried to live that way.. where your wife does nothing but has sex with you?
> 
> While some men will say that sex is all they need from their wife, it usually does not pan out that way. There is a lot more that men need and expect from women. There is a thread here on TAM where this was discussed. Most of the men said that what you suggest is not true for them. It is definitely my personal experience that jumping his bones frequently (daily) is not does not show enough love to satisfy a man.. there are a gazillion other things too that must be done for them too.
> 
> .


Absolutely!


----------



## D.H Mosquito

Emma24 said:


> I wont accept all these statements which some of you have been giving.
> Why should I accept it? I married my husband and I clearly know why I chose him.
> 
> Yet comments keep coming up that I chose my husband because the former fling was not available and my husband is my second option.
> 
> I came here for advice. How to help my husband get over his trauma. Not to hear people commenting on why I chose my husband and how much the fling guy still means to me.
> 
> Just because I honestly described how I used to feel for him does not mean I still love him as some of keep saying.
> 
> And some of you have even said I showed the photos to my husband. Hell. If I had seen those photos, I wouldnt have kept them and it would have been burned then and there.
> 
> The fling guy was never an option because he had already said he was not available a long time back before we had the fling.
> I never had any 'lovely dovey' feelings for him. It was purely physical attraction which does not last if physical attraction is the only thing people see in each other.
> 
> And could you stop assuming I have sex with my husband out of 'duty'?
> 
> Sex isnt everything. Maybe for some for you, it is but for me, it isnt.
> There are many ways to show love for a husband/wife than sex.
> Even sweet little gestures mean a lot to them .
> 
> The entire time I hae been with my hubby, I did a lot of it which made him happy.
> 
> Its because of these pictures, his attitude changed. Otherwise he never felt undesirable :-(
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know sex isn't such a big deal to you as you express your love in other ways daily like most women do, but for at least now lavish him and ravish him with it, someone has dealt you a bad hand and obviously wants you both to fail so don't let them, are you both any closer to discovering who it was or at least a suspect anyone? hope things are getting better at home for you


----------



## seasalt

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was a photo of you and he kissing at the airport when he left not photos plural.

???

Seasalt


----------



## JCD

EleGirl said:


> Generally, when one relationship ends, people go on eventually to another relationship.
> 
> So yes her husband was not in consideration at the time she was with the ex. The husband did not come into the picture until later when he and she stared a relationship.
> 
> Is your wife the only woman you ever dated? Or is she a consolation prize? (meaning a relationship that occurred after the very first on you ever had?)


Here is a problem with your hypothesis.

She was in the room...and she kept going to Fling. Yay Fling. From the tone of her original post, the reason they did not have a relationship is that she wanted one and he wasn't having it.

So...to put it in other terms. She is in a room with two kitties. She REALLY wants to pet the Siamese. But the Siamese cat is a hissing growling nasty scratcher. She is not allowed to pet it.

So...there is NO relationship.

And what does she do? SHE KEEPS LOOKING AT THE SIAMESE! She did not go over to second cat which was rubbing against her leg the whole time.

Fraught Female fixated until Fling flew far.


----------



## JCD

seasalt said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was a photo of you and he kissing at the airport when he left not photos plural.
> 
> ???
> 
> Seasalt


Single.

naivedave isn't reading carefully. She was AMBUSHED by someone who sent her A photo for reasons unknown.


----------



## bfree

Emma, one of the reasons you are having so much difficulty understanding why your husband is feeling the way he is is because you are reacting defensively and not truly trying to empathize. Do you get defensive like that when you talk with your husband? People are not saying you don't love your husband. People are not criticizing your reasons for choosing your husband. People are trying to tell you how your husband probably feels. How can you ever hope to understand and work through this with your husband if you won't open up to other's opinions. You know your choices, your reasons, your feelings. Do you know your husband's? When I say that you lusted heavily for this fling guy and you aren't showing the same level of desire for your husband this is my opinion based on what you've written here. As it is my opinion you cannot say it is wrong. You don't have to agree with it but you cannot dismiss it. Your husband has his opinion. Your husband has his feelings. They are his. You don't have to agree with them but you cannot say they are wrong nor can you dismiss them. And if you want to have a good relationship with him you also have to acknowledge his opinions and feelings and at least try to understand them.


----------



## JCD

bfree said:


> Emma, one of the reasons you are having so much difficulty understanding why your husband is feeling the way he is is because you are reacting defensively and not truly trying to empathize. Do you get defensive like that when you talk with your husband? People are not saying you don't love your husband. People are not criticizing your reasons for choosing your husband. People are trying to tell you how your husband probably feels. How can you ever hope to understand and work through this with your husband if you won't open up to other's opinions. You know your choices, your reasons, your feelings. Do you know your husband's? When I say that you lusted heavily for this fling guy and you aren't showing the same level of desire for your husband this is my opinion based on what you've written here. As it is my opinion you cannot say it is wrong. You don't have to agree with it but you cannot dismiss it. Your husband has his opinion. Your husband has his feelings. They are his. You don't have to agree with them but you cannot say they are wrong nor can you dismiss them. And if you want to have a good relationship with him you also have to acknowledge his opinions and feelings and at least try to understand them.


To be fair, some people have not only inferred that she doesn't love her husband, but said it straight out (as I did in my original post, since retracted. I do not get to tell her how she feels)

I still stand by the 'attracted to Browneye' idea, but if true, I think that's more about denial than dishonesty on her part. I could be wrong and so, between the two choices, I choose to believe her.

She wants some magic words or a quick meal to make all this go away. It doesn't exist. Doubt is an acid though. The damage is done. The best you can do is neutralize it (not sure how good a job she is doing there) and then try to fix the damage.

My suggestion would be for her to enunciate WHY she waited so long to date her husband if he was so dreamy because how it looks from a male perspective is bad. Hubby doesn't have any plausible alternative theory. If she said, "I thought about it, but I was in school and was too young' then that puts the ball in his court to believe her or not.

I would not suggest lying though. IF she was going through 'young girl staggering crush' phase with Old Browneye and didn't date because she was pining for him, best say nothing. There is nothing wrong with crushing on someone. There are some truths that are best left unsaid...at least for now.

A lie will hurt...but sometimes the truth isn't going to help either.


----------



## samyeagar

Absolutely I need more than just sex to feel loved, and to be happy in marriage. That said, if I overheard a conversation between my wife and her best friend...

"My husband is such an absolute dream. He's always so good to me. Always tries to cheer me up when I'm down. Makes dinner when I've had a hard days work, and he cleans up so I can relax. And on the weekends, lets me sleep in and always has a cup of coffee waiting for me. He takes care of the vacuuming, and always makes sure the laundry is kept up. He hasn't missed an anniversary, and never forgets my birthday. I am so lucky to have this man. I don't know what I'd ever do without him. I love him so much. He's not exactly the best in bed, but all those other things make sup for it in spades."

or....

"My husband may not be the best at helping around the house. I mean, he'll throw in a load of laundry every now and then, and might sweep the floor occasionally. He can cook alright, when he does. If I've had a long day at work, he might ask about it, but usually just leaves me be, which is better than hounding me about other things. He sometimes forgets my birthday, but you know, what guy doesn't? He brings me flowers every once in a while, but DAYUM...he's a freaking ROCK STAR in bed. Makes my toes curl just thinking about it, and makes all the other little things totally worth it."

I know which conversation would make me feel better hearing.


----------



## seasalt

Miss Emma,

I've learned to never post to anyone but the thread starter to avoid thread jacking. In your last post, #345, you referenced photos and pictures plural. Was there more than one picture of you kissing the other guy goodbye at the airport? More than one photo puts a different dimension on this story.

Seasalt


----------



## cons

Emma-

Have you ever read His Needs, Her Needs by Dr. William Harley? It does a good job of describing the top ten emotional needs within an romantic relationship (such as marriage)... Often the top five needs for a woman are completely different than a man's...

...often we can "rub our own feet" and love our spouse the way we want to be loved...not realizing that their needs differ from ours. (we've all been there to some extent...perhaps it's human nature)...

....I honestly get the sense that your husband is really hurt by this...is the silence treatment fair? absolutely not... it is a selfish defense mechanism that his not productive...

I am sorry if my feedback was harsh...I was frustrated in the arguing between love and lust (as if one is more important than the other). A really good marriage is going to have BOTH.

Perhaps, before the photo was put in front of him, your husband believed that you had lust for him...but now there is something to compare this to. Relatively speaking, he may know he has your love, but now has realized he has lost your lust for him. Maybe not completely...but enough to leave a wound.


----------



## samyeagar

cons said:


> Emma-
> 
> Have you ever read His Needs, Her Needs by Dr. William Harley? It does a good job of describing the top ten emotional needs within an romantic relationship (such as marriage)... Often the top five needs for a woman are completely different than a man's...
> 
> ...often we can "rub our own feet" and love our spouse the way we want to be loved...not realizing that their needs differ from ours. (we've all been there to some extent...perhaps it's human nature)...
> 
> ....I honestly get the sense that your husband is really hurt by this...is the silence treatment fair? absolutely not... it is a selfish defense mechanism that his not productive...
> 
> I am sorry if my feedback was harsh...I was frustrated in the arguing between love and lust (as if one is more important than the other). A really good marriage is going to have BOTH.
> 
> *Perhaps, before the photo was put in front of him, your husband believed that you had lust for him...but now there is something to compare this to. Relatively speaking, he may know he has your love, but now has realized he has lost your lust for him. Maybe not completely...but enough to leave a wound*.


This.


----------



## Emma24

JCD said:


> Here is a problem with your hypothesis.
> 
> She was in the room...and she kept going to Fling. Yay Fling. From the tone of her original post, the reason they did not have a relationship is that she wanted one and he wasn't having it.
> 
> So...to put it in other terms. She is in a room with two kitties. She REALLY wants to pet the Siamese. But the Siamese cat is a hissing growling nasty scratcher. She is not allowed to pet it.
> 
> So...there is NO relationship.
> 
> And what does she do? SHE KEEPS LOOKING AT THE SIAMESE! She did not go over to second cat which was rubbing against her leg the whole time.
> 
> Fraught Female fixated until Fling flew far.


WRONG.

You clearly did not read my post.
I clearly stated the fling guy had already said long before our fling, he wont get into a relationship.

When did I say I wanted a relationship?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> WRONG.
> 
> You clearly did not read my post.
> I clearly stated the fling guy had already said long before our fling, he wont get into a relationship.
> 
> When did I say I wanted a relationship?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Since you are capable of separating all the relationshippy, love feelings from the lusty ones...separate them out for a moment with regards to this question about your husband...do you lust after your husband, raw lust, are you physically drawn to him on the same level as the guy you had the fling with?


----------



## Emma24

tdwal said:


> How is that wrong. Just because he said he didn't want to have a relationship doesn't mean you weren't interested in one. Otherwise why in the world would you have had this fling with this guy. You were emotionally invested somehow, women just don't want to jump somebody else's bones. I'm sorry but I think your in denial.
> 
> Almost all men will think just this way. Your husband does as well. You will probably never be able to satisfy this for him.


I was never interested in a relationship.
He said so and I never bothered.
Only before he was leaving, he asked for a fling.
I was not even emotionally invested in him.

You have assumed something and you want your assumption to be correct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

intheory said:


> Emma,
> 
> Hi, hope you and h are doing okay.
> 
> I am now confused about something I thought I understood:
> 
> Is this timeline correct?
> 
> You, future-husband and 'fling'-guy are all in the same group of friends for about a year?
> 
> At this time, there is zero romantic connection between you and your husband, correct? You say he liked you and you liked him too. But he never wanted to ask you out at this point, right???
> 
> Perhaps he dated other girls at this time?? Why not. You guys were nothing to each other then beyond acquaintances/casual friends.
> 
> You have the one-week episode with 'fling'-guy. He's then out of the picture.
> 
> Then, you and husband start dating. Did you start dating the week after 'fling'-guy left, a month after? two months after?
> 
> What I am trying to get at, is we don't know that your husband was lingering on the sidelines, crushing madly for you. While you ignored him, then had a week long interlude with 'fling'-guy.
> 
> I have been reading posts that seem to suggest that's true. But I can't recall you confirming that your husband was just dying to ask you out for a year; but couldn't get up the nerve.
> 
> ^^^True or false.
> 
> I think it's significant; because if he really only thought of you as "one of the gang", (sure he liked you; but didn't go out of his way to date you at that point), then I think you could_ gently_ remind him of this.
> 
> As in, "Sweetie, you weren't really into me at that point anyway."
> 
> I just think that might help him put it in perspective.
> 
> If he WAS admiring you from afar the whole time; then my suggestion wouldn't work.
> 
> But why didn't he ask you out if he liked you so much then??? You and 'fling'-guy weren't anything to each other until the very end.
> 
> 
> And, I know I've brought this up before, but if I were you, I'd still be very interested in who took and sent those photo*s* (more than one??) to your husband.
> 
> Wishing the best that this can be sorted out, Emma.


He was not exactly a part of the group because he was loner.
Rarely spoke to anyone but did stay near or around us.

I began dating my hubby after seven months of the fling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> I was never interested in a relationship.
> He said so and I never bothered.
> Only before he was leaving, he asked for a fling.
> I was not even emotionally invested in him.
> 
> You have assumed something and you want your assumption to be correct.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Women are more than capable of having purely physical relationships with no emotional entanglements. They have the raw lustful feelings just as strongly as men.

Since you are capable of separating all the relationshippy, love feelings from the lusty ones...separate them out for a moment with regards to this question about your husband...do you lust after your husband, raw lust, are you physically drawn to him on the same level as the guy you had the fling with?


----------



## Emma24

tdwal said:


> Im sorry I dont believe you and Im sure your husband doessn't either.


Dont believe. I dont really care about your opinion.

And kindly stop commenting here because you are personally attacking me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

samyeagar said:


> Women are more than capable of having purely physical relationships with no emotional entanglements. They have the raw lustful feelings just as strongly as men.
> 
> Since you are capable of separating all the relationshippy, love feelings from the lusty ones...separate them out for a moment with regards to this question about your husband...do you lust after your husband, raw lust, are you physically drawn to him on the same level as the guy you had the fling with?


Yes I do. Since I dated him I always loved being physically close to him and I still do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

tdwal said:


> Im not attacking you, I am trying to give you a perspective from my point of view. Youre more than welcome to block my comments.


I wouldnt have a problem with your POV if you werent forcing your opinion on me by saying I was dying to have a relationship etc etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

D.H Mosquito said:


> I know sex isn't such a big deal to you as you express your love in other ways daily like most women do, but for at least now lavish him and ravish him with it, someone has dealt you a bad hand and obviously wants you both to fail so don't let them, are you both any closer to discovering who it was or at least a suspect anyone? hope things are getting better at home for you


My husband suspects the fling guy or someone who was close to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> Yes I do. Since I dated him I always loved being physically close to him and I still do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Something my wife said to me after a couple of months of dating has really stuck with me. She told me that we had to stay together because I had essentially ruined sex with anyone else for her, that I was just that much better than anything she had ever experienced. That if anything happened and we ever broke up, she would constantly be after me as a fvck buddy. Do you feel the same about your husband?


----------



## JCD

samyeagar said:


> Something my wife said to me after a couple of months of dating has really stuck with me. She told me that we had to stay together because I had essentially ruined sex with anyone else for her, that I was just that much better than anything she had ever experienced. That if anything happened and we ever broke up, she would constantly be after me as a fvck buddy. Do you feel the same about your husband?


Sam...you're getting a little creepy on this lust issue.

Not every married couple is so totally engaged in that. 

She says she desires her husband. She says they have a healthy sex life.

Now, SHE thinks she's shown this and SHE thinks they have a healthy sex life. Maybe he feels differently and maybe not.

But you can't tell her she doesn't want her husband. You can hint that maybe she isn't showing it enough, or that the husband doesn't feel that way.


----------



## JCD

Emma24 said:


> WRONG.
> 
> You clearly did not read my post.
> I clearly stated the fling guy had already said long before our fling, he wont get into a relationship.
> 
> When did I say I wanted a relationship?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I clearly DID read your post.

You said you were CONSTANTLY looking at him, you were constantly tongue tied around him, you were totally into him...and he seemed to reciprocate.

Here:



> He was a extremely handsome and a very mysterious man and I admit *we had a strange connection since the day I met him. *
> 
> Whenever I would meet him, *I would go lost into his eyes and would find myself staring at him* , even forgetting what I had to say to him.
> 
> It was he, who would start the conversation, but even he suffered from the same thing I used to suffer from.
> 
> *Our eyes would meet whenever we were around. *


Yeah...he was nothing to you. I call BS. 

I don't know or care what you feel NOW. The words you used describe someone you were SERIOUSLY emotionally invested in.

And you can't even admit that.

Good luck. You'll need it.


----------



## samyeagar

JCD said:


> Sam...you're getting a little creepy on this lust issue.
> 
> Not every married couple is so totally engaged in that.
> 
> She says she desires her husband. She says they have a healthy sex life.
> 
> Now, SHE thinks she's shown this and SHE thinks they have a healthy sex life. Maybe he feels differently and maybe not.
> 
> But you can't tell her she doesn't want her husband. You can hint that maybe she isn't showing it enough, or that the husband doesn't feel that way.


I haven't said she doesn't want her husband. Not even close. I HAVE asked the questions for her to answer. I think it's very important, because if she does, on the level she has alluded to, there is a disconnect in what she feels inside, and what is being communicated to her husband in a way that he can understand.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> I clearly DID read your post.
> 
> You said you were CONSTANTLY looking at him, you were constantly tongue tied around him, you were totally into him...and he seemed to reciprocate.
> 
> Here:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...he was nothing to you. I call BS.
> 
> I don't know or care what you feel NOW. The words you used describe someone you were SERIOUSLY emotionally invested in.
> 
> And you can't even admit that.
> 
> Good luck. You'll need it.


Emma, THIS is what your husband is undoubtedly picking up on. JCD is right. Until you admit to yourself what the connection was with fling guy you will never be able to convince your husband that he's no threat to him and your marriage. Your "fling guy" is essentially your "one that got away."

Urban Dictionary: The One That Got Away


----------



## D.H Mosquito

Emma24 said:


> My husband suspects the fling guy or someone who was close to him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It can only be him or a friend of his that's trying too de stabilise your marriage, hopefully things are better between you just now as you will need to cover each others backs as i feel that this person will try a new dirty trick especially as the pics were such an unwarranted nasty surprise for both of you, does he feel he is your number one again? maybe if possible book a nice weekend away just for you and him time and leave the troubles of this behind for a few days


----------



## Emma24

JCD said:


> I clearly DID read your post.
> 
> You said you were CONSTANTLY looking at him, you were constantly tongue tied around him, you were totally into him...and he seemed to reciprocate.
> 
> Here:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...he was nothing to you. I call BS.
> 
> I don't know or care what you feel NOW. The words you used describe someone you were SERIOUSLY emotionally invested in.
> 
> And you can't even admit that.
> 
> Good luck. You'll need it.


I dont think this is emotional investment.

I wouldnt say anything. He wouldnt say anything but later on he would to remove the awkwardness.

Looking at someone you are attracted to isnt emotional attachment.

I have admitted I was attracted to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

intheory said:


> Is "he" your husband or 'fling'-guy?
> 
> I think it's great that you didn't date your husband until 7 months after fling guy.
> 
> That should show your husband that you didn't just turn to him the moment 'fling'-guy left and use him as "second best".
> 
> Also, in those 7 months, did your husband ever date anyone else? Did you? I would guess he probably did, wouldn't you?
> 
> If he did, that's important. He wasn't sitting around, waiting for Emma to give him a chance; he was seeing other women too, at that point.
> 
> If he really was pining away for you with unrequited love; then that's different. Do you know it that is the case?
> 
> It makes a difference in how you can approach this with him; so you guys can heal and move on.


"He" is the fling guy.

I am not sure if he was seeing someone that time but he before we actually began dating, we spent lot of time together and really liked each others company.

He did tell me he had a serious relationship before I came into his life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

D.H Mosquito said:


> It can only be him or a friend of his that's trying too de stabilise your marriage, hopefully things are better between you just now as you will need to cover each others backs as i feel that this person will try a new dirty trick especially as the pics were such an unwarranted nasty surprise for both of you, does he feel he is your number one again? maybe if possible book a nice weekend away just for you and him time and leave the troubles of this behind for a few days


You must be right. I have no idea where he is but since the pictures were sent to our house, the person who sent them, knows very well where I am currently living.

And thanks for the vacation advice.. I will try to convince him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## I Don't Know

Did you know your H liked you before you had the fling? Did you like your H before the fling? I think maybe that is what's throwing us off. It's unclear if you and your H had ANYTHING going that he might have felt was more substantial than you did.


----------



## JCD

Emma24 said:


> I dont think this is emotional investment.
> 
> I wouldnt say anything. He wouldnt say anything but later on he would to remove the awkwardness.
> 
> Looking at someone you are attracted to isnt emotional attachment.
> 
> I have admitted I was attracted to him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, you don't believe us.

Ask some women you know. Read that passage as part of a story you are writing and ask if these two people have a relationship or want one.

Or ask the women here their opinion.

Since you are saying everything we are saying is wrong, I'm done here. Have a nice life and hopefully somehow things work out with your husband if for no other reason than the baby.


----------



## Emma24

I Don't Know said:


> Did you know your H liked you before you had the fling? Did you like your H before the fling? I think maybe that is what's throwing us off. It's unclear if you and your H had ANYTHING going that he might have felt was more substantial than you did.


I am not completely sure whether he liked me or not but sometimes I did notice my husband looking at me. 
I felt so once or twice. Before the fling.

But I guess he was with someone else because he told me he had somebody in his life before we started dating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

tdwal said:


> How is that wrong. Just because he said he didn't want to have a relationship doesn't mean you weren't interested in one. Otherwise why in the world would you have had this fling with this guy. You were emotionally invested somehow, *women just don't want to jump somebody else's bones. * I'm sorry but I think your in denial.
> 
> Almost all men will think just this way. Your husband does as well. You will probably never be able to satisfy this for him. And unfortunately you did nothing technically wrong. Its just a bad situation that I can't tell you how to fix.


As a woman, I can tell you that the underlined statement is far from true. Women (some, many) do indeed want to jump the bonds of guys we find hot. It does not have to be for a relationship. Women often enjoy sex just to have sex.


----------



## JCD

EleGirl said:


> As a woman, I can tell you that the underlined statement is far from true. Women (some, many) do indeed want to jump the bonds of guys we find hot. It does not have to be for a relationship. Women often enjoy sex just to have sex.


Well, this is one of those truths that doesn't exactly help, isn't it?

Since Hubby is a traditionalist, the idea that a Brown eye and a nice smile will give her sweaty panties isn't exactly something to sooth his mind.

Of course, when men believe women HAVE to be emotionally invested, it leads to draconian divorce attitudes in the men, so there is no 'win' with these ideas.

But I have HEARD that some women just want to jump into bed with some guy they find attractive. I believe their day job is delivering mail for Santa on the back of a unicorn...which is to say I believe you when you say it happens, but few people I know have actually met such a creature.


----------



## FOB

Emma, your husband is hurt. He found out things about you he didn't know, and it's causing feelings in him he probably can't verbalize, or even process. That's probably why he's lashing out, and giving you the silent treatment. Doesn't make it right, but pain can make you do all kinds of stupid things.

What I don't think you see is what many others have commented on. When reading your words, your desire for your husband seems to pale in comparison to the "insane attraction" you had for Mr. Fling. If that's the case, so be it. But your husband has probably picked up on that as well, and that's a tough thing to feel. He wants you to feel that desire for him.

What I would do is stop trying to convince him of anything, and just try and understand where he's coming from. He needs to be heard and understood, just like we all do.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

JCD said:


> Well, this is one of those truths that doesn't exactly help, isn't it?
> 
> Since Hubby is a traditionalist, the idea that a Brown eye and a nice smile will give her sweaty panties isn't exactly something to sooth his mind.
> 
> Of course, when men believe women HAVE to be emotionally invested, it leads to draconian divorce attitudes in the men, so there is no 'win' with these ideas.
> 
> But I have HEARD that some women just want to jump into bed with some guy they find attractive. I believe their day job is delivering mail for Santa on the back of a unicorn...which is to say I believe you when you say it happens, but few people I know have actually met such a creature.



Women are capable of having sex for fun without looking for a relationship. Swinging, open marriages, hot wife, cuckold, spring break hook-ups, dorm parties, bars, clubs. Perhaps they do not admit it because women would be considered slts. There is more negativity towards women who enjoy sex for just sex.

I attended dorm parties where we played sex dice games and we did not care who we hooked up with. I had ONS, and a couple of FB's that never went anywhere besides sex. People we are attracted to do not always trigger the need to form an attachment. Romantic love, attachments, and lust are separate drives. Can attraction lead to love, sure, but being with someone can also make you lose attraction, and maybe attraction is all there is. There already have been studies on this.

Just look up research on neurobiology and love, attraction, and attachments.

Just because me and my gf are in a relationship, does not mean we do not have attraction for other people. If my gf were on the beach, she would notice other attractive men just like I would notice other attractive women.

Give Emma a little credit here, she is not leaving her husband for the fling. Her attachment to him, motivates her not to jeoperdize the relationship. Sure, she can find her fling attractive and sexy, but that is not strong enough for Emma to leave her husband.

We do not always follow our lust. That is the reason why we have prefrontal cortex for, to regulate our behavior .

Reason why my girlfriend and I do not run off to have sex with people we find more attractive.


----------



## samyeagar

Emma...has your husband ever had emotionally disconnected sex? Sex with a woman just for the fun of it, with no emotional connection?


----------



## EleGirl

JCD said:


> Well, this is one of those truths that doesn't exactly help, isn't it?
> 
> Since Hubby is a traditionalist, the idea that a Brown eye and a nice smile will give her sweaty panties isn't exactly something to sooth his mind.
> 
> Of course, when men believe women HAVE to be emotionally invested, it leads to draconian divorce attitudes in the men, so there is no 'win' with these ideas.


It is often best if a person invests in reality and not some fantasy that they concoct. The reality is that women are as capable of acting out of lust alone, just as men are. After all who exactly do you think all those heterosexual men are having casual sex with?

Her husband had relationships with other women before he formed a relationship with Emma. 



JCD said:


> But I have HEARD that some women just want to jump into bed with some guy they find attractive. I believe their day job is delivering mail for Santa on the back of a unicorn...which is to say I believe you when you say it happens, but few people I know have actually met such a creature.


Yes, of course, as a man you most surely know more about how women feel than women do. Of course


----------



## samyeagar

EleGirl said:


> It is often best if a person invests in reality and not some fantasy that they concoct. The reality is that women are as capable of acting out of lust alone, just as men are. After all who exactly do you think all those heterosexual men are having casual sex with?
> 
> *Her husband had relationships with other women before he formed a relationship with Emma. *
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course, as a man you most surely know more about how women feel than women do. Of course


This goes along with what I just asked Emma. My wife and I are a great example of this. She has had, and enjoyed completely unattached sex. I have never had unattached sex, and know I would not enjoy it. We are VERY different in this regard, and that fundamental difference has presented challenges in how we can communicate about sex.


----------



## samyeagar

tdwal said:


> This thread is not about how Emma feels, its about why her husband has reacted to this new found knowledge.


It's very much about how Emma feels. This whole issue came about because something happened that has caused her husband to question how she feels about him...so how she feels is the crux of the matter.


----------



## EleGirl

tdwal said:


> How is what your saying helping her understand how and why her husband is treating her?


Understanding her husband is not the only thing that has to go on in their marriage for it to go on as a good marriage. They both need to work to understand the other.

What's been said here by some, not all, of the men is clear. I have not doubt that Emma gets it. A lot of the posts here go way beyond trying to give her info so that she understands her husband's feeling/thoughts right now... there are a lot of outright attacks on Emma.

Sure he needs to understand what his point of view is at this time. And yes she will need to tread carefully for a while. But this is a two way street. She should not live in shame in her marriage as is going suggested by many here.

Instead, in order for her to have a healthy marriage, her husband needs to come to realize that she did nothing wrong.. nothing that he himself has not done. He needs to realize that her having sex with another man does not diminish her love and attraction/lust for him.

If they both do not come to understand each other and modify their beliefs and feelings than this marriage is going to fail.

If you continues to punish her for something that has zip to do with him they will either live in misery with him shaming her for the rest of their marriage or she will end up leaving him because she cannot take the 'shame' and punishment he is putting on her.

This is not just about her doing things and understanding him.. it's also about him coming to understand her.

.


----------



## alte Dame

For me, true empathy is what would help here. Not sympathy, but empathy.

If Emma honestly tries to put herself in her husband's shoes, she might be able to find a way to reach him. She sounds like she is being helpful and sympathetic, but that can feel patronizing and superficial.

If she tries very hard to imagine how she would feel if she discovered that her H had an intense sex week with a woman that he was insanely attracted to (even though, of course, he knew there was no future in it) right before she started dating him, how would she feel? If she saw a picture of this attraction, how would she feel?

A few years ago, my clueless MIL sent us a box of personal photos that had my H in them. In going through them, I found picture after picture of him with his gf before he met me. This was from almost 40 years ago & it still p!ssed me off. He had been places with her that I didn't know about! He had smiled and looked happy with her! Etc. ad nauseum. I mentioned it to my H and he thought 1) I was ridiculous for feeling the way I did (and it was irrational), and 2) his mother was ridiculous for sending it on.

My point is that these feelings run deep and Emma needs to try to feel what her H is feeling to be able to address this.


----------



## JCD

EleGirl said:


> It is often best if a person invests in reality and not some fantasy that they concoct. The reality is that women are as capable of acting out of lust alone, just as men are. After all who exactly do you think all those heterosexual men are having casual sex with?
> 
> Her husband had relationships with other women before he formed a relationship with Emma.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course, as a man you most surely know more about how women feel than women do. Of course



Try reading it with your eyes (and mind) open this time. Maybe glasses would help.

Never mind, let me show respect for my elders and write slow.

I stated that while what you said was true, it will not help Emma's husband to hear that truth. (Wow...me slamming women by telling them they don't know women..wait...no...that's not it.)

I also stated that the common male delusion of women NEEDING to be in love to have sex had it's own problems (oh...me slamming men for NOT understanding women...wait...what?)

BUT...I also stated that the experience of woman falling in front of some man legs agape is something outside of most mens experience. Generally we have to work a little harder at it than that. (Unless you are Mach and Conanhub who it seems have insurance rates spikein their towns for all the self induced head trauma and back injuries women are inflicting on themselves to gain their interest)

Yeah...that's me saying you are wrong. 

*I also recall a book I read where a lot of OTHER women DID say they needed that emotional connection. It was a collection of anecdotes. I can believe you AND believe these other women.


----------



## JCD

alte Dame said:


> For me, true empathy is what would help here. Not sympathy, but empathy.
> 
> If Emma honestly tries to put herself in her husband's shoes, she might be able to find a way to reach him. She sounds like she is being helpful and sympathetic, but that can feel patronizing and superficial.
> 
> If she tries very hard to imagine how she would feel if she discovered that her H had an intense sex week with a woman that he was insanely attracted to (even though, of course, he knew there was no future in it) right before she started dating him, how would she feel? If she saw a picture of this attraction, how would she feel?
> 
> A few years ago, my clueless MIL sent us a box of personal photos that had my H in them. In going through them, I found picture after picture of him with his gf before he met me. This was from almost 40 years ago & it still p!ssed me off. He had been places with her that I didn't know about! He had smiled and looked happy with her! Etc. ad nauseum. I mentioned it to my H and he thought 1) I was ridiculous for feeling the way I did (and it was irrational), and 2) his mother was ridiculous for sending it on.
> 
> My point is that these feelings run deep and Emma needs to try to feel what her H is feeling to be able to address this.


Does it seem from her tone that she is getting that?


----------



## samyeagar

alte Dame said:


> For me, true empathy is what would help here. Not sympathy, but empathy.
> 
> If Emma honestly tries to put herself in her husband's shoes, she might be able to find a way to reach him. She sounds like she is being helpful and sympathetic, but that can feel patronizing and superficial.
> 
> *If she tries very hard to imagine how she would feel if she discovered that her H had an intense sex week with a woman that he was insanely attracted to (even though, of course, he knew there was no future in it) right before she started dating him, how would she feel? If she saw a picture of this attraction, how would she feel?*
> 
> A few years ago, my clueless MIL sent us a box of personal photos that had my H in them. In going through them, I found picture after picture of him with his gf before he met me. This was from almost 40 years ago & it still p!ssed me off. He had been places with her that I didn't know about! He had smiled and looked happy with her! Etc. ad nauseum. I mentioned it to my H and he thought 1) I was ridiculous for feeling the way I did (and it was irrational), and 2) his mother was ridiculous for sending it on.
> 
> My point is that these feelings run deep and Emma needs to try to feel what her H is feeling to be able to address this.


From the things Emma has said, I suspect she and her husband have some different views on the meaning of, and importance of lust and the sex that leads from it.

I know the first thing out of my wife's mouth if she found that I had a week of non stop lustful passionate sex with another woman would be "She's a lucky woman" and not give it a second thought.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> I know the first thing out of my wife's mouth if she found that I had a week of non stop lustful passionate sex with another woman would be "She's a lucky woman" and not give it a second thought.


That would be my response, too. And my hubby has had plenty of this type of encounter.

No one is right or wrong here.


----------



## azteca1986

JCD said:


> But I have HEARD that some women just want to jump into bed with some guy they find attractive.


It happens. It just hasn't happened to you.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> That would be my response, too. And my hubby has had plenty of this type of encounter.
> 
> *No one is right or wrong here*.


Nope...just different, and how those differences are reconciled can determine the success or failure of the relationship.

ETA: My 'Nope' above is my conversational way of agreeing with you...just in case it's misunderstood by others


----------



## soccermom2three

JCD said:


> Try reading it with your eyes (and mind) open this time. Maybe glasses would help.
> 
> Never mind, let me show respect for my elders and write slow.


Was this really necessary? Who in their right mind is going to take your post seriously when you start off with insults.

JCD, is something going on in your personal life that's making you unhappy? I've noticed that a lot of your posts are very mean-spirited. I hope everything is okay.


----------



## alte Dame

JCD said:


> Does it seem from her tone that she is getting that?


I doesn't seem that way to me.


----------



## alte Dame

samyeagar said:


> From the things Emma has said, I suspect she and her husband have some different views on the meaning of, and importance of lust and the sex that leads from it.
> 
> I know the first thing out of my wife's mouth if she found that I had a week of non stop lustful passionate sex with another woman would be "She's a lucky woman" and not give it a second thought.


I agree that they have different views, thus the importance of empathy, in my opinion. She is projecting her own view as the person who engaged in the fun. She is not, I don't think, truly identifying with his position as the one learning this about his spouse.

And certainly people are different. If it were me discovering this about my H, I would also think, 'She's a lucky woman,' but I would definitely give it a second thought.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

If you guys allow me this indulgence i would like to point out, for the people who do not really get where her husband is comming from (and there are plenty of them as i see it, including the OP), that her jumping the other dude's bones without a thought of a relationship "just for sex" doesn't make the situation any better in the eyes of her husband. In fact, i'm pretty sure that the main issue he is having is the dissonance between the picture of good girl/good wife she managed to project to him and this revelation. 

She knew him and she didn't choose him for steamy sex week. She chose the other guy. I would risk saying that he doesn't really care about the "relationship" aspect of it. 

He wasn't first choice SEXUALLY and he knows it. No amount of "but you are a great hubby that does the dishes and treats me right" will ever amount to the same thing. 

It doesn't really matter what you think about how he should react to something in the past. He is entitled to his choices and he feels deceived by omission. 

You will downplay that feeling at the cost of hurting this marriage. Remember that they are not that long into it. He can perfectly pull the plug if things don't look just right in his eyes. 

I would suggest people focus on giving this woman the tools she needs to strengthen her marriage, not place little gremlins about what behaviour you would like to see from her husband. 

Emma24, i'm getting the vibe that you were expecting some sort of "go girl" support in this board. Everytime someone tries to ask you to evaluate your part in this you get defensive and argue back. There is no need. You don't need to justify yourself to us. This is about you and your husband. Listen to what people are saying, specially men, because some of them have been there and their thought process is similar to your husband. 

You won't fix this by listening selectively, only taking in what is pleasing to you.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

Lila said:


> The problem I see is that many posting on here are trying to convince Emma that her behavior prior to her marriage was wrong and that she must apologize for it. However, Emma does not feel she's done anything wrong (and she hasn't), which makes it impossible for her to genuinely empathize with her husband. The only thing she _can _ do is respect his feelings and offer her sympathy. If her H cannot accept her offer of sympathy, then she's going to have to make a decision: 1) Live with an insecure man forever shaming her or 2) stand up to him and put a stop to his pity party, even if it means the end of the relationship.


Emma24, when you are decided on getting a divorce read and follow this script. 

I haven't seen a single person saying that she must apologize for something. Can you point that out for me? Because i'm pretty sure that is a fringe opinion. I think you aren't really getting it either...

And this "go girl" attitude about blaming every situation where a man finds out about something that was purposely kept hidden from him (because, let's get real here, there is a reason why he got this picture and had never heard about this spicy event, as he didn't even know there was something between his wife and mutual acquaintance) on the man ends up getting people divorced. 

Showing "sympathy" to man in this situation, which i'm going to translate to "pity" is so out of the park that it isn't even funny. What this man needs from this woman is an action based demonstration of her physical attraction for him. 

That is why he asked to get the same treatment the other guy had, if you read some pages back.

Also, i would like to point out that men who don't feel insecure, when they are given very good reasons to be, have a name where i come from. It translated roughly as morons...


----------



## EleGirl

JCD said:


> Try reading it with your eyes (and mind) open this time. Maybe glasses would help.
> 
> Never mind, let me show respect for my elders and write slow.
> 
> I stated that while what you said was true, it will not help Emma's husband to hear that truth. (Wow...me slamming women by telling them they don't know women..wait...no...that's not it.)
> 
> I also stated that the common male delusion of women NEEDING to be in love to have sex had it's own problems (oh...me slamming men for NOT understanding women...wait...what?)
> 
> BUT...I also stated that the experience of woman falling in front of some man legs agape is something outside of most mens experience. Generally we have to work a little harder at it than that. (Unless you are Mach and Conanhub who it seems have insurance rates spikein their towns for all the self induced head trauma and back injuries women are inflicting on themselves to gain their interest)
> 
> Yeah...that's me saying you are wrong.
> 
> *I also recall a book I read where a lot of OTHER women DID say they needed that emotional connection. It was a collection of anecdotes. I can believe you AND believe these other women.


----------



## FOB

Lila said:


> The problem I see is that many posting on here are trying to convince Emma that her behavior prior to her marriage was wrong and that she must apologize for it. However, Emma does not feel she's done anything wrong (and she hasn't), which makes it impossible for her to genuinely empathize with her husband. The only thing she _can _ do is respect his feelings and offer her sympathy. If her H cannot accept her offer of sympathy, then she's going to have to make a decision: 1) Live with an insecure man forever shaming her or 2) stand up to him and put a stop to his pity party, even if it means the end of the relationship.


So empathy can only be offered when you're right? :scratchhead: I respectfully disagree. Empathy is just putting yourself in someone else's shoes, trying to understand what they're feeling, no?

Her husband feels sucker punched, he's reacting. That doesn't automatically make him insecure, it makes him human. If all she does is tell him to stop his pity party, I don't see how that helps anything.


----------



## EleGirl

BrutalHonesty said:


> Emma24, when you are decided on getting a divorce read and follow this script.
> 
> I haven't seen a single person saying that she must apologize for something. Can you point that out for me? Because i'm pretty sure that is a fringe opinion. I think you aren't really getting it either...
> 
> And this "go girl" attitude about blaming every situation where a man finds out about something that was purposely kept hidden from him (because, let's get real here, there is a reason why he got this picture and had never heard about this spicy event, as he didn't even know there was something between his wife and mutual acquaintance) on the man ends up getting people divorced.
> 
> Showing "sympathy" to man in this situation, which i'm going to translate to "pity" is so out of the park that it isn't even funny. *What this man needs from this woman is an action based demonstration of her physical attraction for him.
> That is why he asked to get the same treatment the other guy had, if you read some pages back.*
> 
> Also, i would like to point out that men who don't feel insecure, when they are given very good reasons to be, have a name where i come from. It translated roughly as morons...


She has said that they have a good sex life. She does anything sexual that he asks of her.

He asked that she give him the same treatment that to other guy had.

It's not clear what that means except that she go off and have a week long thing with him.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

BrutalHonesty said:


> If you guys allow me this indulgence i would like to point out, for the people who do not really get where her husband is comming from (and there are plenty of them as i see it, including the OP), that her jumping the other dude's bones without a thought of a relationship "just for sex" doesn't make the situation any better in the eyes of her husband. In fact, i'm pretty sure that the main issue he is having is the dissonance between the picture of good girl/good wife she managed to project to him and this revelation.
> 
> She knew him and she didn't choose him for steamy sex week. She chose the other guy. I would risk saying that he doesn't really care about the "relationship" aspect of it.
> 
> *He wasn't first choice SEXUALLY and he knows it.* No amount of "but you are a great hubby that does the dishes and treats me right" will ever amount to the same thing.
> 
> It doesn't really matter what you think about how he should react to something in the past. He is entitled to his choices and he feels deceived by omission.
> 
> You will downplay that feeling at the cost of hurting this marriage. Remember that they are not that long into it. He can perfectly pull the plug if things don't look just right in his eyes.
> 
> I would suggest people focus on giving this woman the tools she needs to strengthen her marriage, not place little gremlins about what behaviour you would like to see from her husband.
> 
> Emma24, i'm getting the vibe that you were expecting some sort of "go girl" support in this board. Everytime someone tries to ask you to evaluate your part in this you get defensive and argue back. There is no need. You don't need to justify yourself to us. This is about you and your husband. Listen to what people are saying, specially men, because some of them have been there and their thought process is similar to your husband.
> 
> You won't fix this by listening selectively, only taking in what is pleasing to you.



I think most husbands do indeed want to be their wife's first choice in terms of "the man I had the most intense, sexual desire for in my life was........is this guy I'm married to."
Samyeager has made this point a couple times....I think most of us would rather have that and finish 2nd, 5th or whatever in a bunch of other categories (I mean important ones - best provider, strongest emotional connection etc.).

That not being the case, many of us would prefer to leave our wives and find a partner where we ARE #1 in that sole category. These are strong feelings that are not rational, per se. and they often don't fit well in the modern world.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

FOB said:


> So empathy can only be offered when you're right? :scratchhead: I respectfully disagree. Empathy is just putting yourself in someone else's shoes, trying to understand what they're feeling, no?
> 
> Her husband feels sucker punched, he's reacting. That doesn't automatically make him insecure, it makes him human. If all she does is tell him to stop his pity party, I don't see how that helps anything.


I don't think she gets why he feels sucker punched... I mean, guy just got a pic of his wife swapping saliva with another guy, then finds out about NAT GEO WILD sex week... He gets somehow uncomfortable? Bah... He is insecure and should get over it as soon as his wife orders him to


----------



## samyeagar

Lila said:


> The problem I see is that many posting on here are trying to convince Emma that her behavior prior to her marriage was wrong and that she must apologize for it. However, Emma does not feel she's done anything wrong (and she hasn't), which makes it impossible for her to genuinely empathize with her husband. The only thing she _can _ do is respect his feelings and offer her sympathy. If her H cannot accept her offer of sympathy, then she's going to have to make a decision: 1) Live with an insecure man forever shaming her or 2) stand up to him and put a stop to his pity party, even if it means the end of the relationship.


I'm not so sure anyone has been saying her past behavior was wrong, rather that it's revelation has likely led to her husband feeling sexually settled for. While many here can't remotely relate to that, including Emma, many can.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

EleGirl said:


> She has said that they have a good sex life. She does anything sexual that he asks of her.
> 
> He asked that she give him the same treatment that to other guy had.
> 
> It's not clear what that means except that she go off and have a week long thing with him.


I don't really know what that means. The way that sentence was put can suggest there was something more to it. Or not. Maybe it's just the full sex week!


----------



## FOB

EleGirl said:


> She has said that they have a good sex life. She does anything sexual that he asks of her.


This is a highly subjective thing to rate. Her husband could have a very different take on it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Lila said:


> The problem I see is that many posting on here are trying to convince Emma that her behavior prior to her marriage was wrong and that she must apologize for it.However, Emma does not feel she's done anything wrong (and she hasn't), which makes it impossible for her to genuinely empathize with her husband. The only thing she _can _ do is respect his feelings and offer her sympathy. If her H cannot accept her offer of sympathy, then she's going to have to make a decision: 1) Live with an insecure man forever shaming her or 2) stand up to him and put a stop to his pity party, even if it means the end of the relationship.


Most of the people posting on this thread don't think Emma did anything wrong. I don't think she did anything wrong, Lila doesn't think she did anything wrong, alte dame doesn't think she did anything wrong, EleGirl, jcd, on and on. And Emma, of course. The problem here is that her husband apparently thinks she did do something wrong.

And some of you think it's appropriate to recommend divorce? Really? She should divorce him for reacting exactly the way whoever sent that picture expected him to react?

Some of you need to park your feminist go-girl attitudes and realize that Emma has said repeatedly that she wants to be married to him and is seeking help to correct the problems in this marriage. Whether any of us think she did anything wrong or not, it is not helpful in the context of what Emma wants to do. Getting defensive about female sex drives and **** shaming is not helping in this case, in fact it's one of the more common thread jacks we see lately.

Emma, I've mentioned this before and so have many others. Your marriage is under attack by an outsider. You're not having ordinary marital issues, you're having marital issues that someone else is causing. If this doesn't break you and your husband up what will they try next? What if fg had a hidden camera during that week and caught you in action. That could be the next thing your husband finds in your mail box. You need to figure out who that picture came from.


----------



## alte Dame

Nucking Futs said:


> Most of the people posting on this thread don't think Emma did anything wrong. I don't think she did anything wrong, Lila doesn't think she did anything wrong, alte dame doesn't think she did anything wrong, EleGirl, jcd, on and on. And Emma, of course. The problem here is that her husband apparently thinks she did do something wrong.
> 
> And some of you think it's appropriate to recommend divorce? Really? She should divorce him for reacting exactly the way whoever sent that picture expected him to react?
> 
> Some of you need to park your feminist go-girl attitudes and realize that Emma has said repeatedly that she wants to be married to him and is seeking help to correct the problems in this marriage. Whether any of us think she did anything wrong or not, it is not helpful in the context of what Emma wants to do. Getting defensive about female sex drives and **** shaming is not helping in this case, in fact it's one of the more common thread jacks we see lately.
> 
> Emma, I've mentioned this before and so have many others. Your marriage is under attack by an outsider. You're not having ordinary marital issues, you're having marital issues that someone else is causing. If this doesn't break you and your husband up what will they try next? What if fg had a hidden camera during that week and caught you in action. That could be the next thing your husband finds in your mail box. You need to figure out who that picture came from.


Yes, ideally you and your H both need to be secure enough in your feelings for one another to be a united front here. This is like the apple of discord tossed into your marital life. Your H has taken the bait for very understandable reasons, in my opinion. If you can find a way to work with him so that the two of you are focused on who would want to create a breach between you, that would be a step toward undoing some of the damage.


----------



## FOB

Lila said:


> No FOB. The definition of sympathy is literally 'feeling with' - compassion for or commiseration with another person. Empathy, by contrast, is literally 'feeling into' - the ability to project one's personality into another person and more fully understand that person. You feel empathy when you've "been there", and sympathy when you haven't. Emma cannot feel empathy because she has never experienced the same feelings as her H.
> 
> Emma's husband's insecurities are of his own making. She hasn't done anything to warrant them in her relationship with him.
> 
> We can sit her and tell her to feel things that she just doesn't feel but that would be disingenuous. If her telling him the truth doesn't get through to him, then there really isn't anything left to save. The relationship is over.


Empathy: the feeling that you understand and share another person's experiences and emotions. That's the definition. I can empathize without having 'been there.' I can experience and share things through another person. This is not something we'll agree on, which is fine.

And I would disagree that his insecurities are his own making. Emma didn't do anything wrong, but regardless, the man just had his marriage turned upside down. He is finding out there's more to his wife than he thought, and now he has to process that.

We disagree on a very fundamental level. In my marriage, it's my job to understand my wife. I don't have her hormones, her habits, her quirks, all her little idiosyncrasies. I have my own, but not hers. But regardless, it's up to me to understand her to the best of my abilities. And usually, that means shutting the hell up, sitting down and "being there." That's what allows me to empathize with her.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

> What if fg had a hidden camera during that week and caught you in action. That could be the next thing your husband finds in your mail box. You need to figure out who that picture came from.


:iagree:



> I also think that the "shame on you girl" attitude blaming everything on a woman because she actually had a sexual life prior to marriage is an awful way to live life.


Nobody was doing this... You are so totally building a strawman. 



> Whether or not you agree with this assessment is on you, but if a man wants a good girl for wife, then he should do his due diligence and ask the pertinent questions before marriage. Emma hasn't confirmed whether her husband ever made any inquiries as such so calling her out as "lying by omission" is wrong.


They both knew this man. If i was in her husband's shoes i would consider me not even having a clue on the fact that there was something there, as a lie by omission. And guess what! Her husband hints that this is exactly what he thinks. And that's the issue. It's not about some BS feminist standard about how men SHOULD feel. It's about how REAL men actually do feel when their relationships are being threatened. 



> Emma cannot feel empathy because she has never experienced the same feelings as her H.


That is why most guys here are trying to open the door into her husband's mind here. That's the only issue here. The man feels a certain way and there is no demonstrations of sisterly support for Emma24 that is going to change that. We are working on the assumption that she wants to be married. 

If the solution you are presenting is that she acts in a way that will probably end in a divorce i don't see what is your point. If she wanted a divorce that would be easy. 

What is hard is repairing this marriage and that means dealing with the man has he feels and not how you think he should feel. 



> Based on everything I've read Emma post, she's never given him any reason to be insecure. His insecurities are in his head. He's competing with a memory.


Of course the insecurities are in head because that is where they always are. Insecurities have no physical existence beyond our mind, and that is where they must be dealt with. Do you understand what we are trying to do here? Nobody was accusing Emma of anything other than having created a situation (without major "guilt" other than she shoud have told her husband about the connection with this other guy) where her husband has very good reasons to feel a threat. 

This guy just got a picture of his wife kissing another guy. Put yourself in his shoes. If you got a pic of your husband kissing another woman within the same timeline we are talking about here you wouldn't feel anything?

Because those insecurities would be only in YOUR head. No place else.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Lila said:


> *Why is any dissenting opinion by a woman considered feminist propaganda or a threadjack on TAM? *
> 
> If telling her the honest truth is feminist "go-girl" propaganda, then so be it. If Emma's honest disclosure about her previous relationships and her genuine sympathy for her H's feelings are not enough, then there really is no other choice than stay and suffer, or divorce.


Don't be such a martyr. I never said that any dissenting opinion by a woman is feminist propaganda or a thread jack. But this particular subject comes up fairly frequently on TAM and it usually ends up in strident defense of a womans right to ball whoever she wants whenever she wants and any man that has a problem with that is scum that is not worth being married to. _That_ is not helpful in _this_ situation. 

Emma wants to be married to her husband. This should be a minor bump in the long road of their marriage. Let's see if we can help her help her husband to get past this rather than burning it down in an orgy of feminist defensiveness.

Emma, have a serious talk with your husband. Tell him flat out that someone is trying to break up your marriage. Try to get him to work with you to figure it out. The two of you working together to defend your relationship will go a long way towards getting you past this.


----------



## Nucking Futs

I don't know what the deal is, but I can't get past page 28. I can't even get to my last post. Weird.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Lila said:


> Quoting my post and following it up with...
> 
> ​
> *does imply that you're associating my dissenting opinion as feminist propaganda.*
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that Emma should have genuine talks with her husband but there has to be a stopping point somewhere. She can't continue to take his silent treatments forever can she?


No it doesn't. You may be inferring it, but that's your mistake. I'm not making that implication at all. I quoted your post because you were the last person to recommend divorce to her.


----------



## alte Dame

This discussion has gone off in a direction that I don't think Emma is interested in. Could be wrong, of course...

(And for the record, the default understanding of the word 'empathy' in modern English certainly includes the personal experience of the given emotion/thought, but doesn't require it.)


----------



## Emma24

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Emma - what's the latest with your husband? Has his anger lessened?
> 
> Are you more positive?
> 
> This thread has gotten a lot of people very riled up. I'm glad you continue to post.
> 
> My take - at this point - is that
> 
> 1) you've done nothing wrong
> 2) you love your husband
> 3) you find your husband attractive
> 4) you might be very quiet (based on your brief posts).
> 5) your husband had an image of you that conflicts with you having independent desires
> 
> So based on this, it is about your husband's perspective, not yours. Point 5 seems very unfair, but I guess that is the problem.
> 
> Since you have done everything you can think of to make him happy, he must still be thinking something incorrect about you, or is having a hard time getting some image out of his mind.
> 
> I agree that the whole LUST thing is VERY much a male thing - YES we all want our women to only lust for us. Knowing about our women's lust for others is very hurtful - even if it is illogical. So there it is perhaps. But I don't think it makes you a "bad" person IN ANY MANNER to have had those feelings for someone before your relationship with your husband. Hubby is clearly wrong here, but you are stuck dealing with it.
> 
> I guess I agree with others here that showing your attraction and lust for him might help, but I suppose time is the real answer because he will see your love if you continue to show it.
> 
> And definitely tell him you need his help to protect your marriage - someone is trying to damage it and you need to work together to protect it.
> 
> Please keep posting and good luck...


Hi

He has stopped getting angry at me for no reason. 
Earlier he would shout at me but he has stopped that.

Now he either ignores me or sometimes becomes normal and starts talking.

And at other times hes just silent. 

I feel depressed by his attitude.
Last night I gifted him a watch and he appreciated it but did not show any affection. 

I cried and only then he hugged me :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> Hi
> 
> He has stopped getting angry at me for no reason.
> Earlier he would shout at me but he has stopped that.
> 
> Now he either ignores me or sometimes becomes normal and starts talking.
> 
> And at other times hes just silent.
> 
> I feel depressed by his attitude.
> 
> Last night I gifted him a watch and he appreciated it but did not show any affection.
> 
> I cried and only then he hugged me :-/


Why did you give him a watch as a gift? Do you think that things will make him show you affection and love? It's not going to work.

Whoever send that picture has successfully hurt your marriage. It's too bad that you have not figured out yet who sent them.


----------



## Mostlycontent

EleGirl said:


> Have you ever actually tried to live that way.. where your wife does nothing but has sex with you?
> 
> While some men will say that sex is all they need from their wife, it usually does not pan out that way. There is a lot more that men need and expect from women. There is a thread here on TAM where this was discussed. Most of the men said that what you suggest is not true for them. It is definitely my personal experience that jumping his bones frequently (daily) is not, does not show enough love to satisfy a man.. there are a gazillion other things too that must be done for them too.
> 
> .



That comment is made somewhat tongue in cheek to drive home the point that men need to be their wife's first sexual choice.

I made the comparison because if given a choice, the large majority of men, further indicated by the comments in this thread, would choose to be the guy that made their wife's loins ache and not the guy she loved but wasn't all that attracted to.

In Emma's case, she must find a way to convince her husband that he is her sexual first choice. How she does that is the challenge. No man wants to feel like the sexual consolation prize and it appears that her husband, now fresh with this new information, believes that he is.


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> Why did you give him a watch as a gift? Do you think that things will make him show you affection and love? It's not going to work.
> 
> Whoever send that picture has successfully hurt your marriage. It's too bad that you have not figured out yet who sent them.


I thought maybe doing things like this will help ease some tension.
What else can I do? :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mostlycontent

Emma24 said:


> I thought maybe doing things like this will help ease some tension.
> What else can I do? :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Emma,

I believe you need to sit your husband down and convince him that he is your first choice. He needs to believe that and know that down to his toenails.

You can tell him that although you were very attracted to this other man that it was the situation, wanting something you couldn't have at the time, and not the person that made that exciting. Perhaps even the reason for the strong attraction was because of his unavailability. Tell him that he (your husband) is the person that you most wanted and that if you had known that he wanted a relationship with you then, that you would have chosen him 100% of the time. Then tell him why that is so.

Make him know that if given a choice, you would always select him. I fear that if he is not made to believe that or that it isn't really true, in which case he'll pick up on it, that your marriage is in serious jeopardy.

NO man, or likely any woman for that matter, is going to go along satisfied in a relationship in which they are convinced they weren't their spouse's first choice.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

Emma24 said:


> I thought maybe doing things like this will help ease some tension.
> What else can I do? :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep at it for a while. Making deposits of goodwill and little things. And remember that the reason this guy is acting like this is because he cares about you. If he didn't he wouldn't give a damn. 



> Originally Posted by Emma24 View Post
> Hi
> 
> He has stopped getting angry at me for no reason.
> Earlier he would shout at me but he has stopped that.
> 
> Now he either ignores me or sometimes becomes normal and starts talking.
> 
> And at other times hes just silent.
> 
> I feel depressed by his attitude.
> 
> Last night I gifted him a watch and he appreciated it but did not show any affection.
> 
> I cried and only then he hugged me :-/


Most men care little for gifts of this type. In fact, we feel kinda awkward getting them. Keep doing the little things and over time he will come around.

In the meantime, try to find out who is sabotaging your marriage. Can you get some sort of clue as to the sender of the picture? Do you have enemies? Does your husband have them? Is there possibility for another woman to have an interest in him? How exactly was the picture delivered?


----------



## Gonecrazy

Looks like I'm out of the naughty corner.

Emma, some men would just brush off this whole thing. These men are confident and sure of themselves. He is totally shattered, which means he is lacking in confidence. If you have no children, no financial bonds, it is easier for him to just pull the pin and find someone else. 

I believe you love him and he really is your first choice. My ex gave me a more satisfying sex life than my wife, but that's all it was. When I first met my wife, I loved her more and wanted her more then the hot ex. The problem is, for men who are lacking self confidence, it is hard. We need to feel that we are the best that you have ever had to feel secure. 

I also think that you need to get ready for the next thing. Unless this was delivered just for spite. There may be some other attempt on your marriage. Either contact, or a video. Just remember, your fling guy knows how to get into the heads of women. He knows people.

Good luck
Gonecrazy


----------



## Emma24

BrutalHonesty said:


> Keep at it for a while. Making deposits of goodwill and little things. And remember that the reason this guy is acting like this is because he cares about you. If he didn't he wouldn't give a damn.
> 
> 
> 
> Most men care little for gifts of this type. In fact, we feel kinda awkward getting them. Keep doing the little things and over time he will come around.
> 
> In the meantime, try to find out who is sabotaging your marriage. Can you get some sort of clue as to the sender of the picture? Do you have enemies? Does your husband have them? Is there possibility for another woman to have an interest in him? How exactly was the picture delivered?


No enemies. No female friend either.
The photo was delievered in mail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

intheory said:


> Emma,
> 
> I don't know where you live.
> 
> Do you live in, (or originally come from), a part of the world where standards of sexual conduct are much different for men and women? Usually this means that it is understood and accepted that men will feel lust and sexual attraction toward many women. But it is _not_ accepted that women have these same feelings for many men?
> 
> I'm just asking because it might mean that this is going to be a lot more difficult for you than it would be if you and your husband were _not_ part of such a culture/country/religion, or such as the case may be.
> 
> Not all advice works for all belief systems; I'd hate for us to be telling you to do something that might make your situation worse.
> 
> It was a nice gesture to get your husband a watch. Even if he wasn't affectionate; at least he did show appreciation. Maybe you guys are making baby steps??


I live in New Zealand. Its not such a big deal here but I guess my husband did not take it nicely.

Yes it seems so. I tried another one today by cooking his favourite meal. 
Today he was a little better. He hugged me himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

MarriedGuy221 said:


> That's great :smthumbup:
> 
> I'm so sorry this is such a big issue. You still seem very sad. I guess we just don't know what is going through his head. Have you told him how sad this makes you feel and you feel like he is punishing you? He probably is, but may snap out of it if you actually point it out and he knows you get it. I don't really know... keep posting.


I told him about my feelings but he rarely says anything on it.
Yesterday he was looking really good and I complimented him and wanted to get close to him but he went away to the gym :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Don't neglect yourself in all of this. If he learns that he can treat you this poorly now, what happens if other issues arise. He learned that if he is angry, distances himself, you will chase him and be a punching bag emotionally. Just because he is hurt, does not excuse his behavior either.

If an old girlfriend sent him a photo of her in a bikini,and you got angry, I would tell you not to direct your anger at your husband, but at the ex. He had no hand in what another did.

If you were the one treating him poorly, I would suggest you look into the mirror and would you like what you see.

He is hurt, and he is directing all that anger upon you because it is safe. You showed him that you allow him to treat you poorly, and he may use this again in the future for other arguments. Your taking the guilt for another person.

Once he is out of his anger, this is an issue you both need to deal with, the way he treated you through this ordeal. Because he is hurt, does not mean he can treat you as he wants, there needs to be boundaries.


----------



## Chaparral

I think you will be better off when you stop chasing him. You did not wrong him. As a matter of fact, he has wronged you and continues to do so. Its too bad he is this insecure but that's on him not you. Let him ignore you if he wants to but be good natured, cheerful and NORMAL. Chasing him will backfire. Let him chase you.


----------



## larry.gray

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't know what the deal is, but I can't get past page 28. I can't even get to my last post. Weird.


I posted about this over a year ago:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/technical-difficulties/156281-cant-see-past-certian-page.html

I also offer a cause:



> Yep, I've nailed this down to a specific set of sequences:
> 
> I'm looking at a page with a link to the last page of a thread.
> 
> After the page is displayed with the link, a post is deleted that causes the last page to cease to exist.
> 
> I click the link, and the page isn't there because of the deleted post. As a workaround, the forum software re-directs me one page back.
> 
> The server remembers that re-direct and won't forget it.


Now for the workaround: If you go to your control panel, you can set the number of posts per page. Since you're seeing page 28, you must have it set to 20 posts per page. Pick 30 or 40. Now there will only be 22 or 14 pages in the thread. Then you just go to page 22 or 14 as appropriate to see the posts on the last page. Sometime in the future, if this thread grows to 840 posts, posts 840 through 870 will be hidden for you on 30 posts per page. If it grows to 1120, posts 1120 through 1160 will be hidden from you with 40 posts per page.


----------



## EleGirl

intheory said:


> Wow, some people actually think that getting a divorce is the best answer.
> 
> I mean, yeah, I guess that's a possibility.
> 
> But isn't that drastic for this situation?


I'm not sure who you are talking about on this thread who think that divorce is the best answer.

I do recall that me and others did mention that it could end up in divorce if her husband hangs on this anger he has and uses it against her for a long time. That could happen. It's would be horrible if it did and I hope it does not.

Emma needs to be cognizant that if the anger continues for a long time (not sure how long... 1-2 years) that there may be no way to repair this marriage.

I do think that this was the point that most, if not all who mentioned divorce were talking about.


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> I thought maybe doing things like this will help ease some tension.
> What else can I do? :/


Ok so no gifts like that. It will not help. But do not worry about the watch you did give him. It was a sweet gesture.

Do the little things for him that say "I love you"... like cooking a special meal at times. Complement him. When he does something worthy of respect and/or admiration, tell him that you admire/respect him.

And I agree with the others who are saying to stop chasing him. Do not ask him to hug you, etc. Let him come to you.

Do not ask to talk about this issue any more. Do not chase him. Let him lead on this. Sometimes men need to go to their 'man cave' to figure things out on their own. Even if he does not have a 'man cave' he can go somewhere in his mind where he can process all that has happened. He has to resolve this in his own mind. You cannot fix it. But you do need to respect that he needs to work through this mentally and emotionally. Give him the space he needs.

But do not abandon him emotionally .. be just like you always have been. 

Focus a lot on yourself. Take good care of yourself. You are pregnant and have a baby to care for too. So take care. Do the things you need to do to feel good. 

Do not put up with him being mean to you. It's good that he was stopped saying mean things. If he starts doing it again, tell him that you will not tolerate his being mean to you. If he needs to talk and work through things with you, then you will do that. But you expect to be treated with respect when doing it.

Someone above mentioned that he could learn some really bad things.. like if he acts angry and talks badly to you, you will start hyper focusing on him, jumping through hoops, and chasing him. We teach people how to treat us. Do not teach him that he can act out anytime he wants your attention. He has to do something positive to get your attention.

It's a fine line to walk. Hopefully he will work through this and you both will come out of it fine.


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> Ok so no gifts like that. It will not help. But do not worry about the watch you did give him. It was a sweet gesture.
> 
> Do the little things for him that say "I love you"... like cooking a special meal at times. Complement him. When he does something worthy of respect and/or admiration, tell him that you admire/respect him.
> 
> And I agree with the others who are saying to stop chasing him. Do not ask him to hug you, etc. Let him come to you.
> 
> Do not ask to talk about this issue any more. Do not chase him. Let him lead on this. Sometimes men need to go to their 'man cave' to figure things out on their own. Even if he does not have a 'man cave' he can go somewhere in his mind where he can process all that has happened. He has to resolve this in his own mind. You cannot fix it. But you do need to respect that he needs to work through this mentally and emotionally. Give him the space he needs.
> 
> But do not abandon him emotionally .. be just like you always have been.
> 
> Focus a lot on yourself. Take good care of yourself. You are pregnant and have a baby to care for too. So take care. Do the things you need to do to feel good.
> 
> Do not put up with him being mean to you. It's good that he was stopped saying mean things. If he starts doing it again, tell him that you will not tolerate his being mean to you. If he needs to talk and work through things with you, then you will do that. But you expect to be treated with respect when doing it.
> 
> Someone above mentioned that he could learn some really bad things.. like if he acts angry and talks badly to you, you will start hyper focusing on him, jumping through hoops, and chasing him. We teach people how to treat us. Do not teach him that he can act out anytime he wants your attention. He has to do something positive to get your attention.
> 
> It's a fine line to walk. Hopefully he will work through this and you both will come out of it fine.


Thanks. But how do I make him chase me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Emma24 said:


> Thanks. But how do I make him chase me?


By you not chasing him.

If you can, get the book "Divorce Busting". When you read it pay extra attention to the chapter on the 180 and introducing change in a marriage. I'm not talking about the 180 that is linked to in my signature block below. The 180 in the book is one create just for you... doing things differently than he would expect.

Right now he expects you to be like you have been since this whole picture thing started. So do a 180 and go back to who you were before the picture-gate. Be your cheerful, loving, fun, supportive self. Do not be the depressed, mopey person you have become. 

This will get his attention. It should draw him out because that's what he likes/loves about you.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

Emma24 said:


> No enemies. No female friend either.
> The photo was delievered in mail.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, obviously there is a snake in the grass. You must look deeper. The photo, was it taken from afar?


----------



## Divinely Favored

The husband wasn't even in consideration until loverboy left town.

[/QUOTE]


So yes her husband was not in consideration at the time she was with the ex. The husband did not come into the picture until later when he and she stared a relationship. 


She stated she liked her (now husband) then and knew he liked her at the time of the fling. 

I believe he thought better of her and to find out she had this 1 week NSA f***fest with pretty boy right before she started it up with him. He just found out she was not the girl he thought she was. That her moral compass was off to do this without any emotional attachment. It would definitely hurt.

My best man was a player. There was even a time I told a young single mother i liked how he was because she kinda liked him. I told her all he wanted was sex and she could either choose him or me basically. She still went with Mr pump'em and dump'em. Then she came back wanting me.

After she did my friend I would not touch her with my dogs ****. At least I knew before hand as my buddy told me all about it.

I had another gf who once brought up her f***buddy back home.???? She thought it was normal to have a friend that if you and he neither hade a "date" and you were horny you called and met for sex. I thought this has got out be a really shallow fu woman to have NSA sex like this. I just not cut from the same cloth.


----------



## Emma24

My husband is suspecting my ex. He told me he strongly suspects its either him or his friend who has done this maliciously to cause rift between us.

Once again he said I couldnt control my desires and gave myself to a bastard .

He wasnt shouting, was talking patiently but sounded very hurt .

I couldnt see him so upset and could not stop my tears. I never wanted to give him so much grief. only wanted to make him happy always but instead this situation arrived.

he did hug me and asked me to stop crying but said he needs some time alone.

what can i do now? :'( :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Ok I guess you are continuing to try to communicate. I agree with others here that you need to make sure you work on your own happiness at the same time. Do you go to the gym or go on walks, etc. for yourself? Please be sure to focus on taking care of yourself. No need to ignore him or be mean back to him... but focus on your health and happiness. He will probably notice that as well.
> 
> Perhaps if his poor treatment of you does not appear to be as effective in making you sad he will stop it in time. Anyway, I agree with others that this is something you two will have to address once the dust settles. It would be very appropriate to talk to a marriage counselor or someone independent so you can get this dysfunctional passive aggressive behavior to change. If you can't get past this pretty soon, you might want to talk to someone yourself and get a better handle on ways of dealing with this more directly.
> 
> Good luck.


I do go for walks. And sometimes , the gym.

I ll try to do so. I feel really unhappy seeing him so distant. 
I have never seen him so distant from me. 

But I will try to stay happy :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

Give him the time alone he says he wants. Go out for a walk, or go to the gym. Go have brunch with family or friends.

Is this your first baby? Are you ready for its arrival? Do some shopping for the baby, prepare the nursery, shop for maternity wear, make sure you're getting enough sleep and are eating well - your pregnancy seems to have been swept under the rug, but staying healthy for your child should be your first priority right now.

Don't let him keep brow-beating you about your fling. Yes, you had sex and enjoyed it. Your H is going to have to accept that eventually because he sure can't change anything, but you don't have to spend your entire pregnancy as his punching bag. *If he wants time alone, give him time alone.*


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## Emma24

norajane said:


> Give him the time alone he says he wants. Go out for a walk, or go to the gym. Go have brunch with family or friends.
> 
> Is this your first baby? Are you ready for its arrival? Do some shopping for the baby, prepare the nursery, shop for maternity wear, make sure you're getting enough sleep and are eating well - your pregnancy seems to have been swept under the rug, but staying healthy for your child should be your first priority right now.
> 
> Don't let him keep brow-beating you about your fling. Yes, you had sex and enjoyed it. Your H is going to have to accept that eventually because he sure can't change anything, but you don't have to spend your entire pregnancy as his punching bag. *If he wants time alone, give him time alone.*


Yes this is my first baby. I am unsure. little scared and feel sick .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WonkyNinja

Emma24 said:


> My husband is suspecting my ex. He told me he strongly suspects its either him or his friend who has done this maliciously to cause rift between us.
> 
> Once again he said I couldnt control my desires and gave myself to a bastard .
> 
> He wasnt shouting, was talking patiently but sounded very hurt .
> 
> I couldnt see him so upset and could not stop my tears. I never wanted to give him so much grief. only wanted to make him happy always but instead this situation arrived.
> 
> he did hug me and asked me to stop crying but said he needs some time alone.
> 
> what can i do now? :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well he's talking to you, which is good. There is no way to deal with someone giving you the silent treatment.

You are in a really tough spot here. You didn't do anything wrong, you were single and free to do what you like with whoever you like and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change anything now.

I would suggest that you give him some space and time, but not unlimited. After a short while you have to make it clear to him how much he means to you but also that the two of you can't carry on indefinitely with him resenting you.

I can understand his hurt. If you were all friends in a group then H had probably heard many "success stories" about Mr Fling guy and to realize that Fling "had" someone you were keen on, and cared about, without even the interest in them to stick around hurts deep down. 

The "nice guys" feel second best to the "bad guy" who gets to have his fun then dump the girl and move on to the next. It's often the nice guy that is expected to pick up the pieces afterwards.

I still believe that my XW saw me as a "Safe, solid settling down option" but once we were married she had zero intimate interest in me. 
I'm not suggesting that you have zero interest in your H but just trying to illustrate a point. A woman may think that the "safe option" guy gets the big prize but being the "safe option" guy is like loosing the race then having it rubbed in your face afterwards.

My first gf (G), who I adored and probably still do, married someone who committed suicide when they hit money problems. I hated him and I'd never even met him. I hated him for a) hurting her so badly and b) he may have had money problems but he had G forever. I would have swapped places with him in a millisecond.

If he had been aware of it before then this should be a non-issue, but I gather he wasn't, and he is dealing with it now. 

A picture of your SO kissing someone else before you were married should not be a problem. I don't think many people expect that their spouse hadn't had serious relationships before them. I think the problem is the who it was that was that you were kissing and that someone he cares about deeply was another of Fling's "success stories".

Good luck.


----------



## norajane

Emma24 said:


> Yes this is my first baby. I am unsure. little scared and feel sick .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you have family? Mom, sisters, aunts, cousins? Friends? Talk with them, spend time with them, and talk about your pregnancy with them. Learn from them, listen to their experience. CELEBRATE this new life with them since your H won't.


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## Emma24

norajane said:


> Do you have family? Mom, sisters, aunts, cousins? Friends? Talk with them, spend time with them, and talk about your pregnancy with them. Learn from them, listen to their experience. CELEBRATE this new life with them since your H won't.



How can I celebrate this life without my husband? :-/
wont leaving him alone in such a situation create more problems?

without him , i seldom feel happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

Emma24 said:


> How can I celebrate this life without my husband? :-/
> wont leaving him alone in such a situation create more problems?
> 
> without him , i seldom feel happy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He has asked you for time alone. Give it to him.

Yes, you celebrate now and he'll catch up when he realizes he's being extremely foolish in screwing up his life TODAY because he's so butt-hurt about something that happened 7 months before you even went on a date with your H. And when he comes to that realization, he will feel bad about how he treated you during this special time for your little family. 

This is good for you to learn, because when kids are over stimulated or throwing tantrums, it's best to give them a time out and leave them alone. They soon realize they don't want to be alone and bounce back. Indulging them in a tantrum just makes the tantrum last longer and get louder.


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## Emma24

norajane said:


> He has asked you for time alone. Give it to him.
> 
> Yes, you celebrate now and he'll catch up when he realizes he's being extremely foolish in screwing up his life TODAY because he's so butt-hurt about something that happened 7 months before you even went on a date with your H. And when he comes to that realization, he will feel bad about how he treated you during this special time for your little family.
> 
> This is good for you to learn, because when kids are over stimulated or throwing tantrums, it's best to give them a time out and leave them alone. They soon realize they don't want to be alone and bounce back. Indulging them in a tantrum just makes the tantrum last longer and get louder.


Okay. Will try to do so. thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored

He just had this ideal about what he thought you were and he has to deal with the fact he discovered you do not meet those. Its like a guy believing he married a virgin...then discovering NOT.

It stings and he has to chew on it a while to get it to a size he can choke down. It takes time to adjust to the new realization of behavior his wife had. 

I pray he comes around.


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## Emma24

Divinely Favored said:


> He just had this ideal about what he thought you were and he has to deal with the fact he discovered you do not meet those. Its like a guy believing he married a virgin...then discovering NOT.
> 
> It stings and he has to chew on it a while to get it to a size he can choke down. It takes time to adjust to the new realization of behavior his wife had.
> 
> I pray he comes around.


Should I apologize again? How can I be the ideal wife in his eyes? :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane

Emma24 said:


> Should I apologize again? How can I be the ideal wife in his eyes? :-/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stop apologizing! You've done so over and over, and it's not doing any good, is it? It just keeps him thinking you did something to hurt him (BUT YOU DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO HURT HIM), and that he should keep feeling bad about it.

Again, going back to the child example. If a baby falls down on his butt while trying to walk, and you rush over and act like he's been terribly hurt and keep trying to comfort him, he'll keep crying and crying. If you check and make sure he is fine, and then don't fuss over him, he'll realize he isn't actually hurt and will forget about it and try to walk again. 

The more drama you insert into the process, the more drama he'll create and the longer he will stay stuck in the drama rather than actual reality.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Emma24 said:


> Should I apologize again? How can I be the ideal wife in his eyes? :-/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think there comes a time when you've apologized enough. He has to decide whether to accept it or not.

Just to ask the questions. 

Did he expect that his wife hadn't had any serious relationships before you got married? 

Did you give him any sort of impression that that was the case?

What you did and with who before you dated him is really your own concern, unless you misrepresented yourself to get him to marry you.


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## EleGirl

WonkyNinja said:


> I think there comes a time when you've apologized enough. He has to decide whether to accept it or not.
> 
> Just to ask the questions.
> 
> Did he expect that his wife hadn't had any serious relationships before you got married?
> 
> Did you give him any sort of impression that that was the case?
> 
> What you did and with who before you dated him is really your own concern, unless you misrepresented yourself to get him to marry you.


It helps to read the thread... at least all of the OP's posts. She's answered this very clearly early on.

He did not ask about her previous sexual past. She did not volunteer anything about her sexual past.


----------



## EleGirl

norajane said:


> Stop apologizing! You've done so over and over, and it's not doing any good, is it? It just keeps him thinking you did something to hurt him (BUT YOU DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO HURT HIM), and that he should keep feeling bad about it.
> 
> Again, going back to the child example. If a baby falls down on his butt while trying to walk, and you rush over and act like he's been terribly hurt and keep trying to comfort him, he'll keep crying and crying. If you check and make sure he is fine, and then don't fuss over him, he'll realize he isn't actually hurt and will forget about it and try to walk again.
> 
> The more drama you insert into the process, the more drama he'll create and the longer he will stay stuck in the drama rather than actual reality.



:iagree: Emma, read this over and over until it's stuck in your head. You have made your apologies even though you have nothing to apologize for. Enough with the apologizing. Stop apologizing.


----------



## Nucking Futs

norajane said:


> He has asked you for time alone. Give it to him.
> 
> Yes, you celebrate now and he'll catch up when he realizes he's being extremely foolish in screwing up his life TODAY because he's so butt-hurt about something that happened 7 months before you even went on a date with your H. And when he comes to that realization, he will feel bad about how he treated you during this special time for your little family.
> 
> This is good for you to learn, because when kids are over stimulated or throwing tantrums, it's best to give them a time out and leave them alone. They soon realize they don't want to be alone and bounce back. Indulging them in a tantrum just makes the tantrum last longer and get louder.





norajane said:


> Stop apologizing! You've done so over and over, and it's not doing any good, is it? It just keeps him thinking you did something to hurt him (BUT YOU DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO HURT HIM), and that he should keep feeling bad about it.
> 
> Again, going back to the child example. If a baby falls down on his butt while trying to walk, and you rush over and act like he's been terribly hurt and keep trying to comfort him, he'll keep crying and crying. If you check and make sure he is fine, and then don't fuss over him, he'll realize he isn't actually hurt and will forget about it and try to walk again.
> 
> *The more drama you insert into the process, the more drama he'll create and the longer he will stay stuck in the drama rather than actual reality.*


QFT. All of it, but particularly the last sentence. :iagree::iagree:


----------



## Wolfman1968

norajane said:


> Stop apologizing! You've done so over and over, and it's not doing any good, is it? It just keeps him thinking you did something to hurt him (BUT YOU DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO HURT HIM), and that he should keep feeling bad about it..


I disagree with the part you bolded. 

This is not the same as a situation in which a woman has a boyfriend or lover long before ever meeting her husband. The OP states that all the parties involved (herself, husband, week long lover) had known each other beforehand. Maybe they were all good friends, I don't know.

What she did to hurt him was to *not tell him*. This is a situation in which the parties are not all strangers, and it may have come to light in the future--which in did, in this case. Also, she indicated in the thread that he may not have married her had he known; so her keeping this hidden is, essentially, a "sin of omission". In essence, she falsely represented herself because she knew he wouldn't accept that. I consider that a form of deceit. And maybe her husband does too. And maybe that's a major part of the problem here. So I think that just denying it's a problem ("you did nothing wrong" instead of "he feels you deceived him and need to address it") may not resolve their problem.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Emma24 said:


> If I told him before marriage, I doubt he would have married me considering his behaviour now :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





EleGirl said:


> It helps to read the thread... at least all of the OP's posts. She's answered this very clearly early on.
> 
> He did not ask about her previous sexual past. She did not volunteer anything about her sexual past.


But she states above she doubts he would have married her. If you know your spouse would have an issue with something, I think it is important to volunteer it. As these people were all friends, it probably never entered into his mind that she would have had a week long non-stop sexual marathon with that guy. In fact, if that sort of all-out sexual behavior is not how she acts with him, he might have never conceived of that possibility before. 

I really think that a person has a RESPONSIBILITY of being upfront with their potential spouse over things they know will be a problem. They should not try to hide it and think they can get away with the spouse never knowing. It just doesn't strike me as honest behavior. It may not be the same as giving a lie to a direct question, but it is not in the true spirit of honesty.

I just wouldn't want to be married to someone who is going to parse words when they know what the real intent is, in a Bill Clinton "it depends on what your definition of "is" is" manner.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Wolfman1968 said:


> But she states above she doubts he would have married her. If you know your spouse would have an issue with something, I think it is important to volunteer it. As these people were all friends, it probably never entered into his mind that she would have had a week long non-stop sexual marathon with that guy. In fact, if that sort of all-out sexual behavior is not how she acts with him, he might have never conceived of that possibility before.
> 
> I really think that a person has a RESPONSIBILITY of being upfront with their potential spouse over things they know will be a problem. They should not try to hide it and think they can get away with the spouse never knowing. It just doesn't strike me as honest behavior. It may not be the same as giving a lie to a direct question, but it is not in the true spirit of honesty.
> 
> I just wouldn't want to be married to someone who is going to parse words when they know what the real intent is, in a Bill Clinton "it depends on what your definition of "is" is" manner.


I think you missed something in what she said.



> Originally Posted by *Emma24*
> _If I told him before marriage, I doubt he would have married me *considering his behaviour now* :'( :'(
> Posted via Mobile Device_


She's not saying she didn't tell him before marriage because she knew how he would react, she's saying that judging by his reactions now she doesn't think he would have married her then had he known.


----------



## norajane

Wolfman1968 said:


> I disagree with the part you bolded.
> 
> This is not the same as a situation in which a woman has a boyfriend or lover long before ever meeting her husband. The OP states that all the parties involved (herself, husband, week long lover) had known each other beforehand. Maybe they were all good friends, I don't know.
> 
> What she did to hurt him was to *not tell him*. This is a situation in which the parties are not all strangers, and it may have come to light in the future--which in did, in this case. Also, she indicated in the thread that he may not have married her had he known; so her keeping this hidden is, essentially, a "sin of omission". In essence, she falsely represented herself because she knew he wouldn't accept that. I consider that a form of deceit. And maybe her husband does too. And maybe that's a major part of the problem here. So I think that just denying it's a problem ("you did nothing wrong" instead of "he feels you deceived him and need to address it") may not resolve their problem.





Emma said:


> If I told him before marriage, I doubt he would have married me *considering his behaviour now* :'( :'(


To me, this quote says: Knowing what I know NOW, after seeing his reaction and current behavior, I doubt he would have married me.

At that time, she didn't know how he would react. He never asked her about her past, so she had no way of knowing this 29 year old man who did have a past of his own would react. Seeing his reactions, she now has doubts about what he might have done back then.


----------



## CuddleBug

Emma24 said:


> Hi
> 
> My married life is undergoing a lot of problems currently because of an incident from my past, before I got into a relationship with my then-boyfriend-now-husb and.
> My husband and I have an age difference of 9 years. But he is a very nice guy, very good looking, helping, understanding and affectionate and I love him a lot.
> 
> But since a month, he has been acting horribly with me. Someone, sent him photos of me kissing a guy I used to know and since then he has been upset. Even my husband knew that guy because he was in our frien circle.
> 
> The thing is, before I got into my relationship with my now husband, this guy friend of ours had entered our lives.
> He was a extremely handsome and a very mysterious man and I admit we had a strange connection since the day I met him.
> Whenever I would meet him, I would go lost into his eyes and would find myself staring at him , even forgetting what I had to say to him.
> It was he, who would start the conversation, but even he suffered from the same thing I used to suffer from.
> Our eyes would meet whenever we were around.
> 
> But he had openly declared that he was not interested in marriage or relationships and his only goal was to further his career without any distractions.
> 
> He was here for a short time, maybe 1 year and just a week before he had to leave, he told me he wanted to take back some memories of mine, because he knew I liked him but never said it.
> 
> I was so insanely attracted to him and his eyes (i still remember he had really alluring light brown eyes) that I agreed to all his demands. He wanted to stay with me for a week and we did, mostly having sex most of the time.
> He never let me out of his sight and for a week, I stayed in with him at his house. The day he was leaving, he kissed me many times and left.
> 
> He never appeared again.
> 
> I forgot about it and got into a relationship with my boyfriend whom I always liked and I knew he liked me too(now my husband)
> We got married a year later.
> 
> Someone knew about my past experience and they sent those photos to my husband and I was forced to reveal everything about my past which infuriated my husband.
> 
> I am a submissive wife so I listened to all he had to say. My only goal is to keep him happy and feel loved.
> But he now gives me the silent treatment and when we get into fights, he accuses me saying how many men I have slept with and how many I have cheated on him.
> 
> I go to bed crying every single night. I tried my best to help him get over it but he is still upset.
> He is emotional and jealous and I am suffering from it.
> 
> Last week I found out I was pregnant and he accused me again that I am not as innocent as I seem and whose baby am I carrying.
> 
> It was too painful for me to hear.
> 
> I cannot leave him , but what do I do to help him get over my past?
> 
> Please help me



Who you dated and had sex with before you started dating, got engaged married your hubby, is really none of his business.

Who did he date and sleep with before he met you? Did he really tell you everything? I doubt it.

We all have pasts.

What I did was tell Mrs.CuddleBug about my past and one main girlfriend. I've told her almost everything but not in juicy details because that would upset her.

She has told me about he main boyfriend before me and not in juicy details either.

If Mrs.CuddleBug's last boyfriend was a hottie, she really liked him, kissed him passionately and someone took photos and suddenly sent them to me? Someone wants revenge to get back at her.

Since this would of happened before we met and started dating, it wouldn't bother me. What Mrs.CuddleBug did before she met me is really her business and if she wants to tell me everything, great and the same goes for me.

You didn't do anything wrong and quit apologizing.

If your hubby can't handle you kissing another guy before you got serious and married, he is the problem with insecurities.


Did he really expect you to be a sweet, innocent virgin? Are most guys like that themselves? No. So why are the ladies held to that standard?


Just my 2 cents. Wish you the best.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Nucking Futs said:


> She's not saying she didn't tell him before marriage because she knew how he would react, she's saying that judging by his reactions now she doesn't think he would have married her then had he known.


Actually, I didn't miss that. But she also didn't say that this is a complete about-face of his pre-marriage behavior/attitudes.

I am looking at the whole picture here. The OP says the husband more quiet/reserved than the sex-romp lover. Is a more conservative/restrained person more likely to be unaccepting of the week-long sex marathon? Maybe. They all knew each other. Do you think that talking as a couple, the sex-marathon partner's name never came up? Not even when he is leaving? Unlikely, I think. You don't think in most couples where honesty is being observed this would have been mentioned? I think it would have.

Furthermore, if the anonymous picture-sender is out to disrupt the marriage, he would have to assume that the OP has kept this whole thing hidden from the husband. Otherwise, how is it effective to send the pictures? You can't reveal a secret that is not a secret. But someone who knows the couple...like maybe the man involved in the sex-romp...might do it if he knows that the tryst would have been hidden because the husband wouldn't have married her had he known.

It just makes more sense to me that the OP would have, if not known outright, strongly suspected that the husband would have had a problem with this. His disapproval doesn't happen in a vaccuum. Most people know how their spouses are when they marry them. 

I just find it hard to believe that the OP had NO IDEA WHATSOEVER that this would be an issue for her husband, and that it is JUST COINCIDENCE that the week long sex-romp was never brought up, despite the OM being a friend/acquaintace of both of them and that there was NEVER AN IDEA TO CONCEAL this. It doesn't seem as plausible as the other way.

Now, since she didn't specifically comment on this issue, I invite the OP to clarify whether she had any idea that this would have been an issue to her husband. I think it is relevant to his mindset, as shown by his reaction. And I think if you want to resolve this issue, you need to take into account her husband's perspective, not just the OP's.


----------



## Wolfman1968

norajane said:


> To me, this quote says: Knowing what I know NOW, after seeing his reaction and current behavior, I doubt he would have married me.
> 
> At that time, she didn't know how he would react. He never asked her about her past, so she had no way of knowing this 29 year old man who did have a past of his own would react. Seeing his reactions, she now has doubts about what he might have done back then.


Actually, she doesn't say that she didn't know how he would react. And even if she didn't KNOW for a fact, she may have (should have had) had some strong suspicions, for the reasons I outline in my response to Nucking Futs.

I just don't think these things happen in a vacuum. I find it hard to believe that any person wouldn't have even a clue that this would be a problem. How can you not have even an idea of how your spouse will react? And since I believe people have a RESPONSIBILITY of addressing things that they know or at least suspect will be an issue for their future mate, I feel that any concealment is a form of deceit. And maybe her husband does too, which may be part of the problem here.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Wolfman1968 said:


> Actually, I didn't miss that. But she also didn't say that this is a complete about-face of his pre-marriage behavior/attitudes.
> 
> I am looking at the whole picture here. The OP says the husband more quiet/reserved than the sex-romp lover. Is a more conservative/restrained person more likely to be unaccepting of the week-long sex marathon? Maybe. They all knew each other. Do you think that talking as a couple, the sex-marathon partner's name never came up? Not even when he is leaving? Unlikely, I think. You don't think in most couples where honesty is being observed this would have been mentioned? I think it would have.
> 
> Furthermore, if the anonymous picture-sender is out to disrupt the marriage, he would have to assume that the OP has kept this whole thing hidden from the husband. Otherwise, how is it effective to send the pictures? You can't reveal a secret that is not a secret. But someone who knows the couple...like maybe the man involved in the sex-romp...might do it if he knows that the tryst would have been hidden because the husband wouldn't have married her had he known.
> 
> It just makes more sense to me that the OP would have, if not known outright, strongly suspected that the husband would have had a problem with this. His disapproval doesn't happen in a vaccuum. Most people know how their spouses are when they marry them.
> 
> I just find it hard to believe that the OP had NO IDEA WHATSOEVER that this would be an issue for her husband, and that it is JUST COINCIDENCE that the week long sex-romp was never brought up, despite the OM being a friend/acquaintace of both of them and that there was NEVER AN IDEA TO CONCEAL this. It doesn't seem as plausible as the other way.
> 
> Now, since she didn't specifically comment on this issue, I invite the OP to clarify whether she had any idea that this would have been an issue to her husband. I think it is relevant to his mindset, as shown by his reaction. And I think if you want to resolve this issue, you need to take into account her husband's perspective, not just the OP's.


Here's the problem with your logic: You're working from a premise that a reasonable person would be expected to understand that he would want to know about something like this. I, as an occasionally reasonable person, was really surprised when I first read about this issue here on TAM. I'm 48 years old, been reading here about 2 years. That means that for the first 46 years of my life I had no idea that there were people that thought this way, and I have never offered up this kind of info. I would if asked, I have nothing to hide, and may offer it up in the future now that I know it's an issue for some people, but it wouldn't have even occurred to me that anyone I've been with would care.

In this particular case I don't like Emma's husbands reaction. I didn't see anywhere in her posts that he asked her and she lied to him about it at the time. If he didn't ask, I don't think he's right for holding it against her now. If he did ask, and she lied about it, I wouldn't argue against him divorcing her for it since he in essence would have been tricked into the marriage. I've seen nothing to indicate that though. Maybe you have and I've missed it, if so I'd appreciate a quote.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Nucking Futs said:


> Here's the problem with your logic: You're working from a premise that a reasonable person would be expected to understand that he would want to know about something like this. I, as an occasionally reasonable person, was really surprised when I first read about this issue here on TAM. I'm 48 years old, been reading here about 2 years. That means that for the first 46 years of my life I had no idea that there were people that thought this way, and I have never offered up this kind of info. I would if asked, I have nothing to hide, and may offer it up in the future now that I know it's an issue for some people, but it wouldn't have even occurred to me that anyone I've been with would care.


First of all, this is not like the usual "sexual past" kind of threads seen on TAM. This one is about a known person, a friend/acquaintance to both of them. A person who might not care about his spouse's anonymous past might have issues when it is a known friend who traveled in the same circles. It's just not the same. 

Secondly, you might never have heard of this being an issue with people, but then, it would logically follow that you therefore never married a person for whom this was an issue. Are you really telling me that if this was an issue for your spouse, you would never even have a clue that they would care? I think most people know their spouses' personalities and values better than that. That's why it doesn't make sense to me that she never suspected beforehand.



Nucking Futs said:


> In this particular case I don't like Emma's husbands reaction. I didn't see anywhere in her posts that he asked her and she lied to him about it at the time. If he didn't ask, I don't think he's right for holding it against her now. If he did ask, and she lied about it, I wouldn't argue against him divorcing her for it since he in essence would have been tricked into the marriage. I've seen nothing to indicate that though. Maybe you have and I've missed it, if so I'd appreciate a quote.


The issue is the same as above. For your argument to hold water, you would have to believe that she had absolutely no idea that her husband would react this way. That doesn't make sense to me.

Look, here's a hypothetical example. My wife and I have both been married before, and we both have histories. We know this. However, I know my wife well enough that, even though she might not care about my past in general, if she had found out that I had a threesome with her sisters before we were a couple, she would be livid (I didn't, but for the sake of discussion/example, say it did). I know she would react this way. I don't have to ask her. If her sisters and I said we would just not tell her if she never asked, we would be guilty of deceit. And I can't imagine it would ever enter into her mind to ask me "if I ever had a threesome with her sisters". So am I innocent just because she never asked me, even though I KNOW it would be an issue?
Would she be out of line for being upset just because she never asked me before we got married if I was in an orgy with her sisters?
I think people know their spouses better than that; that's why parsing words with "he never directly asked me" just doesn't fly with me.

I just don't see your scenario as being plausible. That the OP had NO IDEA that her husband would react this way. That she just DOESN'T KNOW his attitudes very well. That it was all COINCIDENTAL that her tryst with the lover was never brought up, despite them all being friends/acquaintances. That she NEVER sought to suppress this information before. And that the picture-sender had NO IDEA that the couple wouldn't have talked about this before. And the husband is having a reaction totally out of left field, that no one could have predicted before this.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It makes much more sense that, even if it was never overtly asked, she had a pretty good idea he wouldn't react well--or that he wouldn't have married her--and she kept the whole thing under wraps until the pictures showed up to blow up the whole situation. That the picture-sender knew he was sending a bomb that revealed a hidden secret. And now the husband feels like he was deceived.

Do you really think that your scenario makes more sense than what I just outlined? I think this is a very important issue, because how the husband perceives it makes all the difference in the world. If the husband believes that the OP "should have known" that it would matter to him and that she had a responsibiility to tell him before marriage, then he's going to feel deceived. And unless that issue is addressed, I don't see how this is going to be resolved well.


----------



## Wolfman1968

alexm said:


> This.
> 
> I already mentioned it, but I think some people tend to skip over some of my posts (they're usually long, and I don't blame them).
> 
> That said, there are often too many simplistic replies to threads like these. Person reads the original post, decides it's A, B or C, then goes with it. More often than some people see, it's none of those. It's D, E or F.
> 
> In this case, the BASE response is "OP's husband is a jealous moron" or "the past doesn't matter". It's automatically deemed on of "those" threads.
> 
> A few people tend to actually think about the post and the issue before jumping off the cliff - which is helpful to the OP, and the point of this place.
> 
> I don't believe this is a simple case of a jealous husband who doesn't want to believe his wife had sex before he came along. That's FAR too easy. I think it's plainly obvious that it's much more than that, and I Don't Know put it much better than I did.
> 
> The three of them knew each other. She wound up with the other guy for a fling and nothing more. It was implied it was only a fling at the time, so she knew. Meanwhile, future hubby likely already had an interest in OP at that time, yet nothing came of it until later on.
> 
> Where the problem lies is that OP's husband had no idea his future wife and this guy had a thing, and essentially had either more interest in that guy, or no interest in he, himself, at that time. Either way isn't good for him. No matter how you slice it, the other guy got chosen first, not him. It doesn't even matter if hubby is the better choice, he's second. And in this case, it wasn't even for an actual relationship, it was for a fling. Did OP and her hubby start off their relationship like this? An intense passion that resulted in steamy sex and not being able to keep her hands off him? Or did they do it the usual way - coffee date, movie, repeat? Sex on the first date, or the 10th? Did she want to take it slow with him and get to know him first, or did she (and he) feel the lust from day one? See what I'm getting at?
> 
> Add to that the fact that MOST people (not all) are not comfortable dating or marrying somebody who dated (or had a fling with) a mutual friend or acquaintance. Especially RIGHT before getting together with each other. I'd rather not know the person who had been intimate with my wife before me, thankyouverymuch. It's just weird, imo.
> 
> Did OP do anything wrong with all of this AT THE TIME? No, of course not. Which is where some of you are stopping the conversation - what she did beforehand is irrelevant. And it is. But this issue doesn't stop there, unfortunately.
> 
> IMO, OP should have divulged this information early on, if only out of respect. And not only when asked. It's situations like this one that often require some transparency early on in a relationship. And it's also exactly the type of thing that will almost certainly come out eventually.





Emma24 said:


> But i chose my husband to be my life partner, with whom I wanted to share my life with.
> 
> Not the guy I had a fling with.
> 
> And had I told my husband before he would not have married me :'( :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





norajane said:


> To me, this quote says: Knowing what I know NOW, after seeing his reaction and current behavior, I doubt he would have married me.
> 
> At that time, she didn't know how he would react. He never asked her about her past, so she had no way of knowing this 29 year old man who did have a past of his own would react. Seeing his reactions, she now has doubts about what he might have done back then.


Sorry for the long quotes but I think it needs to be seen in its entirety.

First of all, AlexM's post is very good, and has said some of my points in a much better way, hence I wanted to remind everyone of this.

Secondly, Emma is directly answering AlexM's post with again the "he wouldn't have married me", but this time without the "in view of his reaction now" sort of qualifier. And she does this specifically to address AlexM's post of WHY she didn't tell her huband beforehand. 

It seems to me that she is saying she DID know he would not react well to this information, and he WOULDN'T have married her, so she intentionally suppressed this information with this knowledge.

If the OP would just clarify this point, then we wouldn't have to be piecing together suggestions of posts like CIA analysts trying to perceive a hidden truth.

Emma: Even before you were married, did you have a suspicion that your husband wouldn't like to know about your week with your lover? Did you think he might not marry you, and therefore you suppressed this information? Or, even if you didn't do so, does your husband think that you intentionally suppressed it?

I think it is an important fact that affects how you can resolve this problem. You came to this board seeking advice, and the more information/background you can give, the more useful or pertinent the advice will be.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Wolfman1968 said:


> First of all, this is not like the usual "sexual past" kind of threads seen on TAM. This one is about a known person, a friend/acquaintance to both of them. A person who might not care about his spouse's anonymous past might have issues when it is a known friend who traveled in the same circles. It's just not the same.
> 
> Secondly, you might never have heard of this being an issue with people, but then, it would logically follow that you therefore never married a person for whom this was an issue.  *Are you really telling me that if this was an issue for your spouse, you would never even have a clue that they would care?* How the hell should I know if I'm not asked? Again, I had no idea that *anyone* cared about it before reading it here. I suspect there are probably other things that exist and concepts that people believe and even base their lives on that I'm not aware of. I don't see any good reason to blame me for that.
> 
> I think most people know their spouses' personalities and values better than that. That's why it doesn't make sense to me that she never suspected beforehand.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is the same as above. For your argument to hold water, you would have to believe that she had absolutely no idea that her husband would react this way. *That doesn't make sense to me.* It makes sense to a lot of people, including about half the people on this thread. The fact that you can't wrap your brain around it doesn't invalidate it.
> 
> Look, here's a hypothetical example.BZZ, not going to bother with hypotheticals. Lets stick to reality please. My wife and I have both been married before, and we both have histories. We know this. However, I know my wife well enough that, even though she might not care about my past in general, if she had found out that I had a threesome with her sisters before we were a couple, she would be livid (I didn't, but for the sake of discussion/example, say it did). I know she would react this way. I don't have to ask her. If her sisters and I said we would just not tell her if she never asked, we would be guilty of deceit. And I can't imagine it would ever enter into her mind to ask me "if I ever had a threesome with her sisters". So am I innocent just because she never asked me, even though I KNOW it would be an issue?
> Would she be out of line for being upset just because she never asked me before we got married if I was in an orgy with her sisters?
> I think people know their spouses better than that; that's why parsing words with "he never directly asked me" just doesn't fly with me.
> 
> *I just don't see your scenario as being plausible.* I didn't really present a scenario. I informed you of the truth from my own life. If you can't wrap your head around the fact that the rest of us don't think exactly the same as you all the time that's not on me, that's on you. That the OP had NO IDEA that her husband would react this way. That she just DOESN'T KNOW his attitudes very well. That it was all COINCIDENTAL that her tryst with the lover was never brought up, despite them all being friends/acquaintances. That she NEVER sought to suppress this information before. And that the picture-sender had NO IDEA that the couple wouldn't have talked about this before. And the husband is having a reaction totally out of left field, that no one could have predicted before this.
> 
> It just doesn't make sense to me. It makes much more sense that, even if it was never overtly asked, she had a pretty good idea he wouldn't react well--or that he wouldn't have married her--and she kept the whole thing under wraps until the pictures showed up to blow up the whole situation. That the picture-sender knew he was sending a bomb that revealed a hidden secret. And now the husband feels like he was deceived.
> 
> Do you really think that your scenario makes more sense than what I just outlined? I think this is a very important issue, because how the husband perceives it makes all the difference in the world. If the husband believes that the OP "should have known" that it would matter to him and that she had a responsibiility to tell him before marriage, then he's going to feel deceived. And unless that issue is addressed, I don't see how this is going to be resolved well.


Once more. My "scenario" was based on my real life experience, not on how I think everyone on earth should behave. I never knew that anyone would care about this stuff before reading it on tam. It was not part of my world. It never occurred to me that it might be part of anyones world. There was absolutely no reason for me to suspect anyone I was with would have this kind of problem since I had no idea this kind of problem existed.

One thing I will agree with you about, the only important thing is how the husband perceives it. If you go back and look at my other posts in this thread you'll see that's where my advice is coming from.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Nucking Futs said:


> Once more. My "scenario" was based on my real life experience, not on how I think everyone on earth should behave. I never knew that anyone would care about this stuff before reading it on tam. It was not part of my world. It never occurred to me that it might be part of anyones world. There was absolutely no reason for me to suspect anyone I was with would have this kind of problem since I had no idea this kind of problem existed.
> 
> One thing I will agree with you about, the only important thing is how the husband perceives it. If you go back and look at my other posts in this thread you'll see that's where my advice is coming from.


You'd better re-read my post, because you don't seem to be responding to my statements your red highlighted responses.
And, for what it's worth, disagreement with you doesn't mean to that I don't understand you, it means I don't accept your arguments. As you say, "wrap your head" around that concept.

I was NOT saying that there aren't people who don't care about their spouse's past. I said that it's not plausible that someone whose spouse reacts so strongly would not give some indication beforehand that it was an issue. Therefore, to suggest she didn't know beforehand is not credible to me. And, in particular, this is not just about someone's past in general, but a tryst with someone in their mutual "circle of friends" (OP's words). As AlexM posted, that makes a difference. Her subsequent behavior suggests to me that she knew he would not approve, and her response to AlexM's post suggests that to me as well (although she doesn't state it outright).

Furthermore, unless, your personal anecdote is suggesting that she actually DIDN'T suspect her husband's opinion on the matter (in which case it is suggesting a "scenario"), then it's not really relevant to this thread. I think she did suspect. Not because I don't think there aren't people who don't care about the past, but because of things she had posted, which I have outlined in my post.

In short, you don't seem to have "wrapped your head" around the concept that the issue is that I believe she likely knew full well beforehand he wouldn't have married her. The issue is NOT that people who don't care exist--it's that I believe she knew her husband was not one of them. Or, more importantly, that her huband believed it.

And how her husband perceives it is NOT the only important issue. If she DID INDEED deceiving him through omission (suspecting what his reaction would have been), then she also has broken his trust. In such a case, she would have a lot of apologizing to do, contrary to other poster who says she does not have anything to apologize for.


----------



## EleGirl

Wolfman,

People understand your point of view. Most of the 31 previous pages have been spent in discussions between TAM members rehashing the same arguments over and over. This is not going to change anyone's mind. Sometimes we have to accept that others have different opinions.

And most of all, after 31 pages of the same argument going round and round & being rehashed, it's just not helpful to Emma. She gets it. There is nothing new to say on this topic.

The purpose of this thread is to give support to Emma to help her handle her current situation. Let's keep this thread focused on supporting Emma in what she can do to get herself and her marriage back on tack. She's pregnant and needs to take care of herself so that she has a healthy baby.

Everyone, lets keep this thread on the topic of helping Emma.


----------



## Wolfman1968

EleGirl said:


> Wolfman,
> 
> People understand your point of view. Most of the 31 previous pages have been spent in discussions between TAM members. Rehashing the same arguments over and over is not going to change anyone's mind.Sometimes we have to accept that others have different opinions.
> 
> And most of all, after 31 pages of the same argument going round and round, being rehashed does not help Emma. She gets it. There is nothing new to say on this topic.
> 
> The purpose of this thread is to give support to Emma to help her handle her current situation. Let's keep this thread focused on supporting Emma in what she can do to get herself and her marriage back on tack. She's pregnant and needs to take care of herself so that she has a healthy baby.
> 
> Everyone, lets keep this thread on the topic of helping Emma.


Well, part of what will help depends on whether he feels she deceived him. Or if she, by omission, did. 
What would help is (some of this has been said, and some of it she has done):

- answer ALL questions he may have of the relationship to rebuild trust, especially if there has been/he feels there has been any deceit BY OMISSION. He may feel "tricked" into marriage if she knew beforehand that he wouldn't have married her if he knew about the tryst.

- she needs to feel as sexually aroused about her husband as she was about the tryst guy at the time. If not, he is going to feel like he's a second choice. She needs to show it. Aggressively. Not just by complying with his requests, but by initiating things. Althought timing is important, so it doesn't seem like she's just doing it to compensate for the other guy.

- I agree that for the mean time he may also need to be alone with his thoughts, as others have posted. 

- In the end, I think honesty is the most important issue here. He's not upset over something he knew about before that is being resurrected. He's upset about something he never knew about. I think he feels he was misled. Rebuilding trust is the most imortant thing. Although this is not a case of cheating, some of these issues of trust may be the same if he feels he was deceived. After all, some of the biggest hurdles of infidelity are the loss of trust. And other issues in a marriage can erode trust as well (hidden pasts, gambling addictions, substance abuse, etc.), and may require the same measures to rebuild that trust.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Wolfman1968 said:


> You'd better re-read my post, because you don't seem to be responding to my statements your red highlighted responses.
> And, for what it's worth, disagreement with you doesn't mean to that I don't understand you, it means I don't accept your arguments. As you say, "wrap your head" around that concept.
> 
> I was NOT saying that there aren't people who don't care about their spouse's past. I said that it's not plausible that someone whose spouse reacts so strongly would not give some indication beforehand that it was an issue. Therefore, to suggest she didn't know beforehand is not credible to me. And, in particular, this is not just about someone's past in general, but a tryst with someone in their mutual "circle of friends" (OP's words). As AlexM posted, that makes a difference. Her subsequent behavior suggests to me that she knew he would not approve, and her response to AlexM's post suggests that to me as well (although she doesn't state it outright).
> 
> Furthermore, unless, your personal anecdote is suggesting that she actually DIDN'T suspect her husband's opinion on the matter (in which case it is suggesting a "scenario"), then it's not really relevant to this thread. I think she did suspect. Not because I don't think there aren't people who don't care about the past, but because of things she had posted, which I have outlined in my post.
> 
> In short, you don't seem to have "wrapped your head" around the concept that the issue is that I believe she likely knew full well beforehand he wouldn't have married her. The issue is NOT that people who don't care exist--it's that I believe she knew her husband was not one of them. Or, more importantly, that her huband believed it.
> 
> And how her husband perceives it is NOT the only important issue. If she DID INDEED deceiving him through omission (suspecting what his reaction would have been), then she also has broken his trust. In such a case, she would have a lot of apologizing to do, contrary to other poster who says she does not have anything to apologize for.


So in your opinion Emma is here asking for our help with a situation but lying to us about it. Got it. 

I, on the other hand, have no trouble believing what Emma is telling us, and have no problem offering my advice on that basis.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Nucking Futs said:


> So in your opinion Emma is here asking for our help with a situation but lying to us about it. Got it.
> 
> I, on the other hand, have no trouble believing what Emma is telling us, and have no problem offering my advice on that basis.


No, that is not even what I IMPLIED. 

But in the spirit of Elegirl's post, I will not debate it further. I stand by my last post regarding suggestions for the OP.


----------



## samyeagar

I'm just not convinced that Emma's husband's big problem here has anything to do with the sex per se. It's more likely in my opinion to be the feeling of being second best. While it is easy to say that the past is the past, a week long sex romp, knowing there is no possiility of a relationship is a pretty strong show of raw, animilistic lust. There was nothing else there but lust. I suspect her husband has never felt on the same level, but only realized it after he found out there was a whole new level be on...

Too often in situations like this, the direction seems to go to the fact that she chose to marry her husband, and not the other guy, therefore the husband is the big winner. Yes, there is an element of truth in that...he won the rights and responsibilities of taking care of a relationship, taking care of a wife, being a provider, protector, a lot of hard work. Pointing that out to him might have felt like a punch in the gut.


----------



## samyeagar

Nucking Futs said:


> Here's the problem with your logic: You're working from a premise that a reasonable person would be expected to understand that he would want to know about something like this. I, as an occasionally reasonable person, was really surprised when I first read about this issue here on TAM. I'm 48 years old, been reading here about 2 years. That means that for the first 46 years of my life I had no idea that there were people that thought this way, and I have never offered up this kind of info. I would if asked, I have nothing to hide, and may offer it up in the future now that I know it's an issue for some people, but it wouldn't have even occurred to me that anyone I've been with would care.
> 
> In this particular case I don't like Emma's husbands reaction. I didn't see anywhere in her posts that he asked her and she lied to him about it at the time. *If he didn't ask, I don't think he's right for holding it against her now.* If he did ask, and she lied about it, I wouldn't argue against him divorcing her for it since he in essence would have been tricked into the marriage. I've seen nothing to indicate that though. Maybe you have and I've missed it, if so I'd appreciate a quote.


There are a couple of reasons for not asking about these kinds of things. First, being that ne just doesn't care, and it's not important to them. The second is that they know themselves well enough to know that they would not like hearing about it.

I fall into the second category. I knew my wife had relationships before me, and knew what that meant...sex would be involved, and I was ok with that. Never pried, never asked questions, but still things came out over time, things I had no desire to know, things I never asked about because I didn't want to know, but circumstances beyond my control dictated otherwise.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

samyeagar said:


> I'm just not convinced that Emma's husband's big problem here has naything to do with the sex per se. It's more likely in my opinion to be the feeling of being second best. While it is easy to say that the past is the past, a week long sex romp, knowing there is no possiility of a relationship is a pretty strong show of raw, animilistic lust. There was nothing else there but lust. I suspect her husband has never felt on the same level, but only realized it after he found out there was a whole new level be on...
> 
> Too often in situations like this, the direction seems to go to the fact that she chose to marry her husband, and not the other guy, therefore the husband is the big winer. Yes, there is an element of truth in that...he won the rights and responsibilities of taking care of a relationship, taking care of a wife, being a provider, protector, a lot of hard work. Pointing that out to him might have felt like a punch in the gut.


What you are saying here... People will get it or they won't. It seems there is very little middle ground. I strongly suspect one of the requirements to fully get it is the understanding of how a certain type of man functions. Half the posts in this thread show me that many people don't have a clue on how this man feels or what this situation means for him. 

This whole "the past is the past" one liner kind of deal goes completely over the target because it fails to address the real issue here completely. 

I'll use a stupidly simple analogy to try and explain this one more time: 

_It's like this farmer who everyday takes care of a cow he bought. He houses it, he bathes it, he feeds and waters it. In exchange the cow produces milk and he milks her. The result? A bucket of milk...

The farmer then meets one guy who tells him he had already seen that cow once in his life. He tells this farmer how the cow, just after meeting him, placed itself over the bucket and gushed a full bucket of milk that he then happily took away. The result for this guy? A bucket of milk. _


What some people are saying is that the farmer should be happy with his bucket of milk, that is the same end result. Then, some people are saying that we really should be criticizing the cow for giving away milk this easily. Then other people add that the farmer should let the past be the past and get over it.

All of them fail to get it. The REAL issue is that the farmer feels like a chump for having to really work at it when he passed the same cow everyday and she never once offered a bucket of milk in exchange for nothing. 

The problem isn't the cow, the other guy or the action itself. It's how the farmer feels. Now, whenever he has to work to get milk from the cow he is going to remember that this same cow sometimes gives away milk to some selected people that have to do zero effort when he, that treats the cow as well as any cow expects to be treated, never had such offers. 


To return to reality, what do you think is going to cross this man's mind whenever he wants sex and she is not in the mood? He is only human. Of course the thought "but the other guy was no problem while i have to jump through hoops just to get my... bucket of milk... ooops sexual intercourse" will be there. 


PS: By using animals in this story i meant no offence to anyone. It was the simplest way of making a point with living beings as actors.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> My husband is suspecting my ex. He told me he strongly suspects its either him or his friend who has done this maliciously to cause rift between us.
> 
> *Once again he said I couldnt control my desires and gave myself to a bastard .*
> 
> He wasnt shouting, was talking patiently but sounded very hurt .
> 
> I couldnt see him so upset and could not stop my tears. I never wanted to give him so much grief. only wanted to make him happy always but instead this situation arrived.
> 
> he did hug me and asked me to stop crying but said he needs some time alone.
> 
> what can i do now? :'( :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It seems like there are several puzzle pieces missing. How well did your husband know the fling guy? Your H could have made the bolded sentence as a generalization - like "how could you sleep with a low life who did not value you". However, what if his statement was along the lines of "How could you sleep with John Q Public, born in the town of Anywhere, U.S.A. and living at 1313 Mockingbird Lane"? It's possible that your H knew this guy better than you think. I'll admit that I'm a little confused by the major rift this picture has caused. If it was me, I would have been upset by it if a similar situation unfolded in my life. But I would have moved on after a little time went by because I know what type of relationship I have with my wife.

In your case, you either don't know what past there may have been between your H and this fling guy or you don't know the values your husband held and what he was looking for in a wife. You need to get to the bottom of this. I'm going to disagree with a lot of people and tell you that the picture in the mail is a red herring. Sure, it jump started this whole mess. However, if it wasn't this picture, most likely it would have been something else. The best area of focus from what I can tell from all this is what is motivating your H today? Because right now, all your efforts so far are to apologize and offer bribes. That's not going to cut it. You need to diagnose what about this truly bothers your husband. Some things to consider when digging into this:


Is your husband upset that he thought you were a virgin but were not in reality?
Would your husband still be angry if instead of this picture representing a week long sex frenzy with a guy who you had zero shot at having a relationship with, it was a picture of a "nice guy BF" who you went thru the whole dating process with?
Is the reason behind your husband's anger based on the "anyone but that guy" theory? Specifically, your husband loathed that guy more than anyone else, and he happens to find out that you had wild sex with the one guy he truly cannot stand?
Is he upset because he thinks you had more feelings for the other guy than for him?

A lot of time was spent speculating about the last point. What about the other points I put forward. Could one of those be the real reason why your husband is so upset?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

several posters are now saying that Emma "gets it." I am not at all sure that is the case. 

Emma - you stared out with a long post, a fairly detailed interesting story about your dilemma. then you offered a series of one-liners in response to some long, probing questions by posters. Now your posts are picking up some steam again and you're giving more complete responses and communicating better with the board. we also now know that there is no language barrier vis-a-vis New Zealand. so that has not been the issue.

If you can't understand a problem you have no chance of fixing it. 
there may be other dimensions to this but try just to answer one question VERY directly. you can tell us the unadulterated truth because you are not married to any of us:

1. has your *physical* lust for your husband, at its peak, ever equaled or exceeded the _*physical*_ lust you had for the other guy, during the fling?


----------



## Emma24

nuclearnightmare said:


> several posters are now saying that Emma "gets it." I am not at all sure that is the case.
> 
> Emma - you stared out with a long post, a fairly detailed interesting story about your dilemma. then you offered a series of one-liners in response to some long, probing questions by posters. Now your posts are picking up some steam again and you're giving more complete responses and communicating better with the board. we also now know that there is no language barrier vis-a-vis New Zealand. so that has not been the issue.
> 
> If you can't understand a problem you have no chance of fixing it.
> there may be other dimensions to this but try just to answer one question VERY directly. you can tell us the unadulterated truth because you are not married to any of us:
> 
> 1. has your *physical* lust for your husband, at its peak, ever equaled or exceeded the _*physical*_ lust you had for the other guy, during the fling?




Hi.

Yes. While we were dating, it was really high at the time then after we got married and even these days.

But he pushes me away or makes up some excuse.
Yesterday he made a lame excuse that since I am pregnant so I should get some good sleep :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

Plan 9 from OS said:


> It seems like there are several puzzle pieces missing. How well did your husband know the fling guy? Your H could have made the bolded sentence as a generalization - like "how could you sleep with a low life who did not value you". However, what if his statement was along the lines of "How could you sleep with John Q Public, born in the town of Anywhere, U.S.A. and living at 1313 Mockingbird Lane"? It's possible that your H knew this guy better than you think. I'll admit that I'm a little confused by the major rift this picture has caused. If it was me, I would have been upset by it if a similar situation unfolded in my life. But I would have moved on after a little time went by because I know what type of relationship I have with my wife.
> 
> In your case, you either don't know what past there may have been between your H and this fling guy or you don't know the values your husband held and what he was looking for in a wife. You need to get to the bottom of this. I'm going to disagree with a lot of people and tell you that the picture in the mail is a red herring. Sure, it jump started this whole mess. However, if it wasn't this picture, most likely it would have been something else. The best area of focus from what I can tell from all this is what is motivating your H today? Because right now, all your efforts so far are to apologize and offer bribes. That's not going to cut it. You need to diagnose what about this truly bothers your husband. Some things to consider when digging into this:
> 
> 
> Is your husband upset that he thought you were a virgin but were not in reality?
> Would your husband still be angry if instead of this picture representing a week long sex frenzy with a guy who you had zero shot at having a relationship with, it was a picture of a "nice guy BF" who you went thru the whole dating process with?
> Is the reason behind your husband's anger based on the "anyone but that guy" theory? Specifically, your husband loathed that guy more than anyone else, and he happens to find out that you had wild sex with the one guy he truly cannot stand?
> Is he upset because he thinks you had more feelings for the other guy than for him?
> 
> A lot of time was spent speculating about the last point. What about the other points I put forward. Could one of those be the real reason why your husband is so upset?


They were not really on talking terms. As I said both are quiet types, and they both only had a few words to say to each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma24

samyeagar said:


> I'm just not convinced that Emma's husband's big problem here has anything to do with the sex per se. It's more likely in my opinion to be the feeling of being second best. While it is easy to say that the past is the past, a week long sex romp, knowing there is no possiility of a relationship is a pretty strong show of raw, animilistic lust. There was nothing else there but lust. I suspect her husband has never felt on the same level, but only realized it after he found out there was a whole new level be on...
> 
> Too often in situations like this, the direction seems to go to the fact that she chose to marry her husband, and not the other guy, therefore the husband is the big winner. Yes, there is an element of truth in that...he won the rights and responsibilities of taking care of a relationship, taking care of a wife, being a provider, protector, a lot of hard work. Pointing that out to him might have felt like a punch in the gut.


But he is not second best. I have tried explaining this to him.

I made a wrong move and had a week long rubbish with the fling guy but it was week.
I have been with my husband for almost two years (dating-marriage) and he has received everything for a much longer time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> *But he is not second best.* I have tried explaining this to him.
> 
> I made a wrong move and had a week long rubbish with the fling guy but it was week.
> I* have been with my husband for almost two years (dating-marriage) and he has received everything for a much longer time*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have no doubt in my mind that you believe this, and that your husband is indeed on par with your fling. The problem is, you have not found a way to adequately communicate that to him. Part of it is absolutely him not being receptive to what you are saying, but only part of it.

He was likely content in his feeling your lust. Probably wouldn't have minded a bit more, but assumed that he was tops in that department, so was content with this being the best way you could communicate it.

Maybe, wanting a bit more intensity from you, but content with what he was getting, then he found out about what kind of show you were capable of, perhaps something more along the lines of what he was wanting, but content not having...now the feelings of contentment are changing to ones of settling...actions speak a thousand times louder than words.

You also have to remember that this is something that was in your past, you had time to process and move past it. This is now his present. A present he likely did not want, and did nothing to bring it upon himself. It is going to take him some time to process it...just as it did you.

I am also guessing that when the photo showed up, you went down the line of telling him what happened sexually, and how it was nothing but sex, and didn't mean a thing to you. If that's the case, it is quite possible that you unknowingly made things a whole lot worse.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Emma24 said:


> Hi.
> 
> Yes. While we were dating, it was really high at the time then after we got married and even these days.
> 
> But he pushes me away or makes up some excuse.
> Yesterday he made a lame excuse that since I am pregnant so I should get some good sleep :-/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



OK good. then how about this....
what is the sexiest, most lustful comment you have ever made about your husband? and did you make it to your husband, did you make it to a friend or sister referring to your husband...i.e what was the context?

where I'm going with this is for you to be able to give him one or two pieces of evidence to counteract the statements you made about the fling guy (i.e. "insanely attracted" etc)


----------



## BrutalHonesty

Men know which other men act like bastards when it comes to women. That's because men only let their guard down near other men (if you are a woman, unless you are spying somehow you will be hardpressed to witness this to its fullest). It is quite likely that the husband knows about past things that this other guy did and he doesn't approve of. That would make things worse. Because if i can understand why women get together with some guy who is full of good qualities i would have much more trouble with the notion that they got it on with someone i consider a slimeball. 

Maybe hubby knows something about this other bloke.


----------



## samyeagar

nuclearnightmare said:


> OK good. then how about this....
> what is the sexiest, most lustful comment you have ever made about your husband? and did you make it to your husband, did you make it to a friend or sister referring to your husband...i.e what was the context?
> 
> where I'm going with this is for you to be able to give him one or two pieces of evidence to counteract the statements you made about the fling guy (i.e. "insanely attracted" etc)


This is an interesting direction...my wife is very open with her friends and others about how hot she finds me, brags about my body, all that...but damn, it's like pulling teeth sometimes getting her to say anything to ME about those things.


----------



## azteca1986

Emma24 said:


> But he is not second best. I have tried explaining this to him.
> 
> I made a wrong move and had a week long rubbish with the fling guy but it was week.
> I have been with my husband for almost two years (dating-marriage) and he has received everything for a much longer time.


I really wish I could help here, Emma24, but I'm failing to see how the choice to have a one week fling can ever compare to the choice of the man who you chose to spend a lifetime with and bear his children.

They're not even in the same ball park. Your husband is not 'second choice'.

For the record my wife had a days long sexathon before we got married and I don't think less of her for it.


----------



## Mostlycontent

Emma24 said:


> But he is not second best. I have tried explaining this to him.
> 
> I made a wrong move and had a week long rubbish with the fling guy but it was week.
> I have been with my husband for almost two years (dating-marriage) and he has received everything for a much longer time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only a handful of people on this thread truly "get" how your husband is feeling. He is not fully convinced that he is your first choice and he is likely also smarting over the deception of you not informing him of this.

Rightly or wrongly, his opinion of you has likely been shaken. It's irrelevant how people on this thread feel about it or think he should feel about it. Only your husband's perception of events and feelings matter here.

So your issues are, first and foremost, to convince him that he wasn't second choice and if you did lie by omission, to work diligently to regain his trust. Perhaps tell him that you wanted him so much that you didn't tell him. Try to make it as much a positive as is possible.

There really isn't anything else. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you can right the relationship.


----------



## samyeagar

azteca1986 said:


> I really wish I could help here, Emma24, but I'm failing to see how the choice to have a one week fling can ever compare to the choice of the man who you chose to spend a lifetime with and bear his children.
> 
> They're not even in the same ball park. Your husband is not 'second choice'.
> 
> For the record my wife had a days long sexathon before we got married and *I don't think less of her for it*.


It's not about thinking less of her about anything. It's about him feeling she doesn't think as much about him.


----------



## norajane

samyeagar said:


> It's not about thinking less of her about anything. It's about him feeling she doesn't think as much about him.


All we know is what Emma has told us, and she has said that her husband is upset because she "gave herself to a bastard."

To me, that does sound like he is thinking less of her for enjoying sex with someone else, someone he deems as a "bastard" though we have no reason to believe he is a bastard. 

That guy was perfectly honest with Emma that he wanted a fling, so I don't see where the bastard part comes in. H is thinking less of her for having and enjoying sex 7 months before their first date.


----------



## samyeagar

norajane said:


> All we know is what Emma has told us, and she has said that her husband is upset because she "gave herself to a bastard."
> 
> To me, that does sound like he is thinking less of her for enjoying sex with someone else, someone he deems as a "bastard" though we have no reason to believe he is a bastard.
> 
> That guy was perfectly honest with Emma that he wanted a fling, so I don't see where the bastard part comes in. * H is thinking less of her for having and enjoying sex 7 months before their first date*.


As I have said before, I doubt it has anything at all to do with the fact that she enjoyed sex with someone before him. Rarely is that the case in these situations, and by assigning that as the problem, not only is the real underlying issue overlooked and dismissed, the things one would do to get past the whole "He thinks less of her for enjoying sex" could do more damage.


----------



## azteca1986

samyeagar said:


> It's not about thinking less of her about anything. *It's about him feeling she doesn't think as much about him*.


One week fling vs two years dating that ended in marriage? Currently carrying his child.


----------



## EleGirl

samyeagar said:


> As I have said before, I doubt it has anything at all to do with the fact that she enjoyed sex with someone before him. Rarely is that the case in these situations, and by assigning that as the problem, not only is the real underlying issue overlooked and dismissed, the things one would do to get past the whole "He thinks less of her for enjoying sex" could do more damage.


Read the quote below.



Emma24 said:


> My husband said that photo drives him mad
> 
> He also added, he did not expect me to stoop so low and offer myself to another man who was not even interested in commitment, which means I indulged in that fling soley for lust.
> 
> He said he thought I was a decent woman.
> 
> I saw that guy two years ago.]


What he is saying to Emma clearly states that he thinks less of her and now thinks that she is not a decent woman.


----------



## samyeagar

EleGirl said:


> Read the quote below.
> 
> 
> 
> What he is saying to Emma clearly states that he thinks less of her and now thinks that she is not a decent woman.


He may very well think less of her, but again, I don't think this is necessarily that clear cut. He's clearly emotionally shaken and probably not thinking through everything he is saying before he says it. That does not excuse him for the silent treatment, for saying things that belittle her. Not at all, but these are extraordinary circumstances, that is going to require some extraordinary patience and understanding and communication on both parts.

If he truly does mean it that he thinks less of her, is now disgusted by her, and finds it as clear cut as some here do, then I fear there is little hope at all...regardless of what Emma does.


----------



## EleGirl

Posters on this thread have given many different reasons why Emma's husband might be reacting as he is.

We can conjecture all we want. There is only ONE person on this earth who knows what's going through her husband's head.... HER HUSBAND.

Right now all that Emma can go with are the actual words that have come out of his mouth. Those words are saying the he no longer thinks that she is a decent woman.

Going on and on and on and on and on in this thread claiming that you (generic you) know all the answers and know what her husband is thinking is just a waste of time.

Over time, hopefully, Emma will be able to get her husband to open up and talk more. Maybe then he will give her more info. But right now they are not really on talking terms and the things he is saying to her are not good at all.

Emma, what I suggest is that you think about the things some here have said about what your husband might be thinking. But do not assume that any of it applies. Instead listen to what your husband says. If and when he's actually open to talking to you, you can ask questions that would get him to tell you more about what he is thinking.


----------



## cons

I think if we get past picking apart the husband's words...we see hurt. 

Yes- he is expressing his hurt very poorly. If he was here, that is what I'd be focusing on in any advice I could give.

Emma- you're the one here looking for what to do...people have given you great insight into how your husband is most likely feeling and what you could do. 

It seems as if you'll always be at a stalemate...because no one is willing to budge...someone has to go first in order to reconcile.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

EleGirl said:


> Read the quote below.
> 
> 
> 
> What he is saying to Emma clearly states that he thinks less of her and now thinks that she is not a decent woman.


Translation: H had to work harder to get what he thought was special - only to find out later that what he thought was special was freely given in a very impulsive manner. It looks like the issue the H has is not related to jealousy over his wife having sex with another man before him, it's that she was able to give herself freely to another with no strings attached. 

Two ways to look at it: 1) his wife is easy or 2) he didn't expect her to have a NSA relationship that would be something along the lines of what a guy would do.

Regardless, it would be interesting if the OP could find out from her H whether his reaction would have been different if she would have dated the fling guy for a year and that this was their breakup, last chance at sex farewell instead of an actual fling. Her husband may have had a litmus test about who he wanted to marry, and that test may have been if she had ONS type sex in her past or not. Shame on him for not digging into it if that was truly his circuit breaker, but this may be what is going thru his head.

That doesn't mean that I or anyone else believes that the OP was an evil wh0re or did something terribly wrong. What's important is what does her husband think and how he's processing it now. I would have processed it differently, but she's not married to me. So that point is moot.


----------



## bfree

EleGirl said:


> Read the quote below.
> 
> 
> 
> What he is saying to Emma clearly states that he thinks less of her and now thinks that she is not a decent woman.


Elegirl, I say this with all due respect but you're reading his words like a woman. He is not a woman and most of the men in this thread are trying to show Emma how they view these words. It is quite clear to us what he is saying. Women aren't the only ones that can feel one thing but say another.


----------



## norajane

bfree said:


> Elegirl, I say this with all due respect but you're reading his words like a woman. He is not a woman and most of the men in this thread are trying to show Emma how they view these words. It is quite clear to us what he is saying. Women aren't the only ones that can feel one thing but say another.


To clarify, are you saying that Emma's husband telling her this:



> He also added, he did not expect me to stoop so low and offer myself to another man who was not even interested in commitment, which means I indulged in that fling soley for lust.
> 
> He said he thought I was a decent woman.


really means, "I feel like your second choice and I feel hurt"?


----------



## Mostlycontent

norajane said:


> To clarify, are you saying that Emma's husband telling her this:
> 
> 
> 
> really means, "I feel like your second choice and I feel hurt"?



I think that's close, norajane. What bfree and other men are saying is that her giving it away so freely to another man, when he himself had to earn it, sure makes a guy feel like he is second rate.

No guy wants to pay full price when someone else gets 50% off (bad choice of words perhaps but you get the idea). so it's not so much that he's concerned about her freely and willingly giving herself, it's that she didn't freely and willingly give herself to him in a similar and lustful way.

Let me give you an example. If my wife made every guy she slept with date her for a while but slept with me right away, I wouldn't think less of her in the slightest. In fact, I'd feel damned special and like her first choice.

Now reverse that. Let's say I had to date her for months before we had sex but the fling guy got it quick and with no commitment. How do you think a guy would feel then? Perhaps like a second fiddle or just some other bozo that she wasn't all that attracted to.

I'm not saying those perceptions would be correct, just that they would and could exist. He likely made the comment that "I thought you were a decent person" because she didn't do that with him. If he thought he was special because she married him, this has shaken his perception of her because obviously, she was more attracted to someone else or just not him.


----------



## I Don't Know

> He also added, he did not expect me to stoop so low


Meant to hurt her (sad but true) or he really didn't think she would do something like that.



> and offer myself to another man


Read "someone who isn't me"



> who was not even interested in commitment, which means I indulged in that fling soley for lust.


Again "but not with me"



> He said he thought I was a decent woman.


Again hurtful with an implied "Because you never acted this way with me."


----------



## bfree

norajane said:


> To clarify, are you saying that Emma's husband telling her this:
> 
> 
> 
> really means, "I feel like your second choice and I feel hurt"?


Yup. The disconnect here is that men and women while having similar feelings have them at different times and in different measures. Because of different hormones everything in a relationship is filtered. Women filter everything through emotions and men filter everything through sex. What you and other women in this thread see as an emotional issue the men, and probably Emma's husband, are seeing as a sexual one. You see his comments in the context of feelings while us men because of our different biological chemical makeup see it as sexual in nature. This is the primary reason why Emma has failed in her attempts to communicate with her husband about this issue. Look at all the comments by men in this thread. They all come back to one single issue. Lust. That is what I tried to convey earlier in this thread. Emma's husband is upset because she has never lusted after him the way she lusted after "fling guy." For a man that is very emasculating. We, as men, all know guys that can seemingly snap their fingers and cause panties to drop. We know that they are cads but because men are all about sex we are also jealous. So to rationalize this in our minds we look at the women who they have conquered as "easy lays." That is the dynamic Emma and all the other women are missing. It's not so much that Emma's husband thinks less of her. It's that all his perceptions are now destroyed and it's a blow to his ego. Why didn't the woman that he loves more than life itself lust after him the way she did "fling guy?" He's not wondering what's wrong with her. He's wondering what's wrong with him. And that is the unanswered question that he's terrified will eventually kill this marriage. It's a threat not only to his ego but the relationship. If Emma doesn't lust after him, for whatever reason, the marriage is over.


----------



## Gonecrazy

I think there should be some conclusion made. We've all heard how H is feeling. I think I know how he is feeling. Emma is pregnant and all this stress is not doing Bubs any good. Emma has not cheated on him, seems devoted to him, and has been doing all that she can to help the situation.

She had some sex. Can H really hold
That against her? I think Emma should tell her husband this train is moving along. A pregnancy is a special wonderful time and it is being overshadow by one week of lust. Emma can't change her past but they together can shape their future.

No wife is perfect. And if this is the worst she has done, then he is not doing too bad. The situation sucks, but it shows the strength and resolve of a marriage. If he can't get his head around it soon, maybe he should consider an alternative.

Gonecrazy


----------



## samyeagar

A week long no strings, no expectations, sex romp is a pretty strong show of raw lust. One that only ended with the guy getting on a plane and flying away. Since there was no emotional connection, the physical side had to be damned good. Emma's husband knows that. He probably spent their whole marriage seeing how things were, and doing what many of us do...assuming that we are the best, the most desired because hey, they married us right?

Most of us know, intellectually at least, that there is a possibility that our partners have had better, but most of us are not directly confronted with proof of that, and when we are, the feelings of being settled for, of not being special, of being second best come on full force.

Emma's husband didn't want to go there. He didn't seek out this information. It was thrust upon him through no fault of his own. He is likely evaluating his relationship with his wife and looking at it through this new filter. Looking back to compare, to see if her actions and words for him match up to the other guy. He is also likely second guessing himself, because he likely took her words and actions on faith that what he was getting from her was how she shows her lust for him, and wondering now what he missed...do things with him really mean what he thought they did.

I still feel that it's not about the good sex she had with another guy. I doubt he cares much about the actual acts or anything like that. He likely just wants to feel, to know that what ever the other guy had to get his now wife so worked up sexually, that he's got more of, and better. And two years of providing and protecting and buying flowers isn't even on his radar.


----------



## I Don't Know

There's also the fact that this was new information to him and he has probably concocted some pretty wild mind movies about his wife and this other guy. They are probably "worse" than anything that actually happened during that week. This is so fresh for him that these images are eclipsing every lusty moment Emma has had with her H.

Emma, IF you've done things with your husband that you never did with the fling, tell him those things specifically. I wouldn't say "I never did that with _____" but more "remember the time we did this and this and this? That was my lust and desire for you! That was something I would only do with you!" Hell it doesn't even have to be something you never did with fling guy, just remind him of the times your lust for H has taken over. Just don't tell him you didn't do x with fling if you did.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

norajane said:


> Stop apologizing! You've done so over and over, and it's not doing any good, is it? It just keeps him thinking you did something to hurt him (BUT YOU DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO HURT HIM), and that he should keep feeling bad about it.
> 
> Again, going back to the child example. If a baby falls down on his butt while trying to walk, and you rush over and act like he's been terribly hurt and keep trying to comfort him, he'll keep crying and crying. If you check and make sure he is fine, and then don't fuss over him, he'll realize he isn't actually hurt and will forget about it and try to walk again.
> 
> The more drama you insert into the process, the more drama he'll create and the longer he will stay stuck in the drama rather than actual reality.


THIS.

Do not try to please. See the 'doormat' stories here on TAM. You cannot nice him into loving you. 

Keep your selfrespect and let him see an independent person who he can love, and who wants to love him. 

Forget the often posted idea that everybody should see their current spouse as the best lover, the best father, the best provider or whatever. We are all probably mediocre, good at some things, bad at other. The other posters cannot accept that reality out of fear for their own situation.

You are capable of having a sex dream coming to live, and he should welcome the idea of having a passionate relation with you. That people have sex lives apart from their current lover is a fact of live. Let him come to his senses. 

I pray you let not let yourself go into depression, if he does not value you as you are, he is not worth to get in depression over, because you better live without him if he makes you ill.

Hope for the best,


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

azteca1986 said:


> I really wish I could help here, Emma24, but I'm failing to see how the choice to have a one week fling can ever compare to the choice of the man who you chose to spend a lifetime with and bear his children.
> 
> They're not even in the same ball park. Your husband is not 'second choice'.
> 
> For the record my wife had a days long sexathon before we got married and I don't think less of her for it.


The phenomenon is common enough that there is slang for it. It's called "Alpha fux, Beta bux." It means that women can have wild, passionate sex with Alphas they are attracted to, but understand that they wouldn't make the best permanent roommates. And it means that they can settle down with Betas who would be great at killing spiders and helping the kids with their homework, but not so sexy.

Now, this is all perfectly logical to women. They understand it and see nothing wrong with it. And I'll say that I agree. Assuming for a moment that premarital sex is moral, there's nothing wrong with this approach.

But, that's not how men think. Men place a higher value on sex. Men want to lock down the sexiest woman they can, who can fulfill their other requirements. Men don't generally think, "Well, she's so highly valued in other areas, I suppose I can tolerate banging her two or three times a month, as long as there's very little foreplay." That idea is completely foreign to most men.

So, given that men generally try to marry the women they find the most sexually desirable, it's upsetting to find out that their wives married them for entirely different reasons.

There are a few options for dealing with this. Men could marry very inexperienced women, so that they know that their wives don't have these kinds of passionate affairs in their past. Men could also refuse to marry. By offering only sex, and not commitment, men can be assured that the women they date are interested in them for sex.

But, for married men who learn that their wives were more attracted to exes than they have ever been for them, the options are to accept it, or move on. And accepting it doesn't necessarily mean forgetting about it completely, or fully supporting their wives' choices. Sometimes, it means loving one's wife less than one did before. And that's not necessarily the worst option.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

BronzeTorpedo said:


> The phenomenon is common enough that there is slang for it. It's called "Alpha fux, Beta bux." It means that women can have wild, passionate sex with Alphas they are attracted to, but understand that they wouldn't make the best permanent roommates. And it means that they can settle down with Betas who would be great at killing spiders and helping the kids with their homework, but not so sexy.
> 
> Now, this is all perfectly logical to women. They understand it and see nothing wrong with it. And I'll say that I agree. Assuming for a moment that premarital sex is moral, there's nothing wrong with this approach.
> 
> But, that's not how men think. Men place a higher value on sex. Men want to lock down the sexiest woman they can, who can fulfill their other requirements. Men don't generally think, "Well, she's so highly valued in other areas, I suppose I can tolerate banging her two or three times a month, as long as there's very little foreplay." That idea is completely foreign to most men.
> 
> So, given that men generally try to marry the women they find the most sexually desirable, it's upsetting to find out that their wives married them for entirely different reasons.
> 
> There are a few options for dealing with this. Men could marry very inexperienced women, so that they know that their wives don't have these kinds of passionate affairs in their past. Men could also refuse to marry. By offering only sex, and not commitment, men can be assured that the women they date are interested in them for sex.
> 
> But, for married men who learn that their wives were more attracted to exes than they have ever been for them, the options are to accept it, or move on. And accepting it doesn't necessarily mean forgetting about it completely, or fully supporting their wives' choices. Sometimes, it means loving one's wife less than one did before. And that's not necessarily the worst option.


Read the LD thread. The one where they are open to talk. 

I really am disgusted by your logic of women and I do agree with you about having empathy for the husband in this situation.


----------



## EleGirl

bfree said:


> Elegirl, I say this with all due respect but you're reading his words like a woman. He is not a woman and most of the men in this thread are trying to show Emma how they view these words. It is quite clear to us what he is saying. Women aren't the only ones that can feel one thing but say another.


Oh, I get what you and some other men on here are saying. (Note that not all men have this issue.. a fair number have posted here that they just do not get his reaction.) 

I have no doubt that his insecurity is at the root of his reaction. He's feels insecure. feels hurt because he is insecure... BOTH. The only way he can boost his ego is to look down and Emma and mistreat her.

When he tells Emma that he thinks less of her and now thinks that she is not a decent woman, he means it. He is just not also saying that he feels insecure. He may never be able to talk about his feelings of insecurity. But he will most likely continue to look down on her and mistreat her.

There is nothing that Emma can do to make him feel better and less insecure. This is an internal problem that HE has. HE has to fix it.

People here are telling her to do all kinds of things to prop up his ego, to make him think that she sees him as super stud. It's not going to work.


----------



## Emma24

Hi all.

Yesterday my husband was in a really foul mood. When I tried to be sweet to him, he shouted at me saying I should keep away from him and how I should dream of my ex and salivate over him instead of running after him.

It was very painful for me to hear all this . He accused me on many things, even said I dont love him. 

I broke down and later on fainted. On regaining consciousness, he apologized to me , and for the first time in so many days, kissed me. Though he acted really badly with me, he later made it up.

I feel miserable. What have I done now that I am facing all this? 
I feel very empty and dont even feel like living anymore
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

EleGirl said:


> Oh, I get what you and some other men on here are saying. (Note that not all men have this issue.. a fair number have posted here that they just do not get his reaction.)
> 
> I have no doubt that his insecurity is at the root of his reaction. He's feels insecure. feels hurt because he is insecure... BOTH. The only way he can boost his ego is to look down and Emma and mistreat her.
> 
> When he tells Emma that he thinks less of her and now thinks that she is not a decent woman, he means it. He is just not also saying that he feels insecure. He may never be able to talk about his feelings of insecurity. But he will most likely continue to look down on her and mistreat her.
> 
> There is nothing that Emma can do to make him feel better and less insecure. This is an internal problem that HE has. HE has to fix it.
> 
> People here are telling her to do all kinds of things to prop up his ego, to make him think that she sees him as super stud. It's not going to work.


But see, you don't get. He doesn't think less of her at all, He is thinking less of himself. He is wondering if there is something wrong with him.

Look. Men do not blame a woman if the woman doesn't have an orgasm during sex. Men blame themselves for not getting them off. This is part and parcel the same thing. He isn't blaming her for feeling so much lust for another man. He is blaming himself for not inspiring that lust in her for him. It is an internal struggle for him and it is indeed an insecurity. But it's an insecurity that was thrust upon him by some outside unseen force. Most men come to realize that they aren't the greatest lover over time. This was a sudden shock to his system and a blow to his ego. The advice you call "propping up his ego" isn't that at all. What most men are saying is that when talking about this issue with him focusing on the qualities about him that she's mentioned here isn't going to do a damned thing. In fact, talking about it isn't going to solve the problem. By understanding the internal struggle he is facing she can be better equipped to work through this issue with him. By knowing it's origin (lust) she can not only address it with him but she can stop apologizing and stop feeling hurt by his misdirected words.

You say we are telling her to prop up his ego. No, we are advising her as to how he probably feels so that she can understand him. And isn't understanding your spouse the impetus behind all these relationship books like His Needs, Her Needs, The Five Love Languages, and even the oldie but goodie Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus? Look, for you and I this wouldn't even register on our relationship Richter scales. We are older and wiser and see things with a more experienced even tempered eye. But they are younger. They are in the very beginnings of their relationship. Their marriage has not had time to deepen and grow yet. So anything that diverts the organic path of their union is a much bigger deal for them. Emma can take this mini crisis and either let it fester and drive a wedge between her and her husband. Or she can use this situation to try to begin to bridge the gap between her and her husband and foster better interpersonal communication in her marriage. The choice is hers.


----------



## Gonecrazy

Emma: you fainted from stress and stated you don't feel like living anymore. Red flags. You need some space from him. Either temperorary or permenent.

Don't ever let yourself feel like that especially now that you're pregnant!


----------



## bfree

Emma24 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Yesterday my husband was in a really foul mood. When I tried to be sweet to him, he shouted at me saying I should keep away from him and how I should dream of my ex and salivate over him instead of running after him.
> 
> It was very painful for me to hear all this . He accused me on many things, even said I dont love him.
> 
> I broke down and later on fainted. On regaining consciousness, he apologized to me , and for the first time in so many days, kissed me. Though he acted really badly with me, he later made it up.
> 
> I feel miserable. What have I done now that I am facing all this?
> I feel very empty and dont even feel like living anymore
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In all honesty you haven't done anything to deserve this. Your husband understandably feels hurt by this but that is not an excuse to lash out at you like that. I encourage you to try to empathize with him but as others have said you have nothing to apologize for. You need to step back a little and let him come to you. As has already been stated you cannot nice him out of this. When you chase someone the person being chased naturally runs away. When you stop chasing they stop running away, look around and take stock of their actions and behavior. Let the emotional level settle down. Have you mentioned to him that stress is not good for the baby? His baby?


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

EleGirl said:


> There is nothing that Emma can do to make him feel better and less insecure. This is an internal problem that HE has. HE has to fix it.
> 
> People here are telling her to do all kinds of things to prop up his ego, to make him think that she sees him as super stud. It's not going to work.


I appreciate having a woman's perspective on insecurities. The next time my wife asks me if her pants make her butt look fat, it will be so liberating to answer, "Of course! But that's your insecurity to deal with. So suck it up and stop asking me to prop up your ego."

All this time, I was approaching the situation entirely differently. What a goof!


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Yesterday my husband was in a really foul mood. When I tried to be sweet to him, he shouted at me saying I should keep away from him and how I should dream of my ex and salivate over him instead of running after him.
> 
> It was very painful for me to hear all this . He accused me on many things, even said I dont love him.
> 
> I broke down and later on fainted. On regaining consciousness, he apologized to me , and for the first time in so many days, kissed me. Though he acted really badly with me, he later made it up.
> 
> I feel miserable. What have I done now that I am facing all this?
> *I feel very empty and dont even feel like living anymore*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you are seriously considering ending your life, see a professional counselor ASAP!


----------



## Primrose

Your husband is taking this way too far to the point that it is affecting the health of your baby and yourself. 

Please distance YOURSELF now. You owe him nothing more than what you have given him. This was not an affair, for crying out loud. You did not break your vows to him. You simply had a fling with another man several MONTHS *prior* to dating to him.


----------



## norajane

Emma, do you have family you can go stay with for a while until you can get your physical and mental health under control? Are you eating regularly, healthy foods? Are you sleeping?

Please make an appointment to see your doctor - fainting is not a good sign. Stress hormones can do bad things for a person's body, and I can't believe that's good for your baby. 

Take care of yourself right now because your baby is counting on you.


----------



## samyeagar

Primrose said:


> Your husband is taking this way too far to the point that it is affecting the health of your baby and yourself.
> 
> Please distance YOURSELF now. You owe him nothing more than what you have given him. This was not an affair, for crying out loud. You did not break your vows to him. You simply had a fling with another man several MONTHS *prior* to dating to him.


It's triage mode now...I absolutely agree that he is letting his behavior get in the way here, and that needs to be addressed immediately. He has crossed the line. He needs to stop being abusive, no matter how he feels. Emma needs to be firm on that, but make sure that she keeps the issue with the abusive behavior separate from his feelings about the other guy.

I still stand by my assessment of how he could actually be feeling deep inside though...second best in the lust department.


----------



## Emma24

I dont want to distance myself from my husband. He is really special to me. He is normal now and is acting normally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> I dont want to distance myself from my husband. He is really special to me. He is normal now and is acting normally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now might be a good time to calmly let him know that the words he's been saying have hurt you, and that you won't tolerate being treated that way. Don't get into an argument about it. Let it stand on it's own. I would suggest that you tell him, assuming this is indeed true, that you desire him physically more than any man you've ever seen, describe your lust for him, and then ask him what you can say or do to convey your feeling in a way that he will understand and accept.


----------



## norajane

Emma24 said:


> I dont want to distance myself from my husband. He is really special to me. He is normal now and is acting normally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yesterday he was raging at you and making you faint, and today all is well? Will he wake up tomorrow raging at you again? 

Protect yourself, Emma. Do you have a support system? Do you have family and friends to call when you are feeling sick? Please reach out to someone when you feel like life isn't worth living anymore!


----------



## bfree

Emma24 said:


> I dont want to distance myself from my husband. He is really special to me. He is normal now and is acting normally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's good that he's calmed down but he needs to get some self control so that he doesn't lash out again. I asked this before, did you tell him that this stress is not good for the baby? Did you explain that you are willing to work through this issue with him but not if he cannot control his anger?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Emma24 said:


> I dont want to distance myself from my husband. He is really special to me. He is normal now and is acting normally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know you or your husband. But what you are describing lately is like an abusive marriage. Lately you've been making his favorite meals, making promises to relive past sexual escapades and who knows what else with the hopes of bribing him to treat you better. However, you still walk around on egg shells and do not know if you're going to get Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. You kind of expect this type of thing when you see infidelity crop up - and even in those situations the betrayed realize that they need to figure out how to control the outbursts or everything will go to hell anyways. You OTOH did not do anything wrong to your husband. Despite what people may have accused you of, please know that most people were simply trying to give you ideas on what we think your husband is experiencing. While you will probably have to do some level of discussions with him and to assure him that you're madly in love with him and desire him, he's going way, way too far with his reactions. You almost think that there is some connection between the fling guy and your H that you simply are not aware of.


----------



## Emma24

I did tell him that stress is not good for our baby and I also told him all my feelings about how I feel about him.

He listened to everything. Said he loves me and felt jealous that I found somebody more attractive than him.

He made me promise that I will always stay with him and love him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mostlycontent

Emma24 said:


> I did tell him that stress is not good for our baby and I also told him all my feelings about how I feel about him.
> 
> He listened to everything. Said he loves me and felt jealous that I found somebody more attractive than him.
> 
> He made me promise that I will always stay with him and love him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The highlighted part still needs to be addressed. It is likely the source of his rages and will also likely continue until you can convince him that what he thinks is NOT true.

When people are hurt, they oftentimes lash out. Solve the hurt and the behavior usually stops. Simple as that.


----------



## samyeagar

MarriedGuy221 said:


> There you have it Emma. The other guy wasn't a bastard, you are not "that kind of woman". We can end the speculation. He finally is admitting what no man wants to admit - he is jealous and feels like the second man IN YOUR EYES.
> 
> The guys here have been trying to say this bit it is hard for most women to fully grasp. This is CENTRAL to his ego and sense of self. He had been forced to look at himself through your eyes and see someone second best.
> 
> If course you don't see that but he can't believe that because of what he imagined happened. Yes it is all on him and he is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
> 
> But... You love him and want him back. I don't blame you and would want the same.
> 
> Hopefully you see that doing things for him - cooking, taking care of him, etc. WONT help. Can you see that.? This mothering / nursing / care taking - while coming from the heart - can't address his low self worth in your eyes ("according to him"). If anything he could interpret it as you trying to make him feel better for being second best.
> 
> Now again - he is wrong and deluded - but in a way most men easily understand.
> 
> Perhaps a 180 where he has to pursue you a bit might help him, particularly if you respond when he pursues. I know it sounds childish, like a cat and mouse game, but pursuing and getting a reward is kind of the basis of the male ego.
> 
> If you do a 180 you should look back a bit and make sure he pursues. He may misinterpret it initially as you walking away.
> 
> Clearly he is way too fragile now. Counseling might help him too.
> 
> Any better professional advise for fixing a damaged ego?


See, and for me, they way I feel MOST desired is when I am pursued. For me, even when things are good, her being coy and playing hard to get is a big turn off. For me, something along the lines of a simple text in the middle of the day saying that she can't wait to get naked with me later...yeah, that works for me. Me coming home to my favorite meal is nice, make me feel loved, but does not in any way make me feel lusted after. Sort of like if I bought her new tires for her birthday. I love her and want her to be safe, but doesn't exactly scream "You're freakin hot, and I want you now."

I don't think Emma should be trying to guess at what her husband wants to see and hear to convince him that he is number one in her eyes. I think she needs to tell him, again, only if it's true, how hot she is for him, how much he turns her on, fires her lust, and then ask him what kinds of things she can say and do that he would understand as a show of desire.


----------



## samyeagar

Mostlycontent said:


> *The highlighted part still needs to be addressed.* It is likely the source of his rages and will also likely continue until you can convince him that what he thinks is NOT true.
> 
> When people are hurt, they oftentimes lash out. Solve the hurt and the behavior usually stops. Simple as that.


And is exactly what many of us men have been saying from the very beginning...


----------



## bfree

MarriedGuy221 said:


> I know there was no cheating but guys on TAM who have been cheated on, was there anything your WW could do to repair the ego damage? What did you do!


Well, I'm no help with that one. I divorced.

But as far as what I respond to...when my wife just literally "attacks" me and says she will burn up if I don't touch her, yeah that does it for me. But every man is different. If Emma's husband is more conservative he may not appreciate her being aggressive or "pursuing" him. He may be more into the traditional man woos woman scenario. Emma should know what her husband usually responds to. When I was single and looking for sexual gratification I was more into the predator and prey approach. That changed when I got into a more stable long term relationship and saw my wife on more of a level with myself.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

MarriedGuy221 said:


> I know there was no cheating but guys on TAM who have been cheated on, was there anything your WW could do to repair the ego damage? What did you do!


I'm no help on that aspect either. However, her husband lost my sympathy after this continued to drag on. At first I felt some sympathy for him and was concerned that he may be second choice. But that has turned to incredulity against him due to his irrational response and now I think he's an outright royal ass. Why she keeps putting her husband on a pedestal in light of the persistent abuse, I do not know.


----------



## turnera

Emma, have you asked your H to go to counseling?


----------



## turnera

samyeagar said:


> It's not about thinking less of her about anything. It's about him feeling she doesn't think as much about him.


But she has done nothing wrong. What she did before dating her husband is none of his business. Someone else brought her past into their lives, for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean that she has to now kiss up to him, APOLOGIZE to him, or turn into some sex machine to soothe HIS wounded/damaged/low ego.


----------



## norajane

turnera said:


> But she has done nothing wrong. What she did before dating her husband is none of his business. Someone else brought her past into their lives, for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean that she has to now kiss up to him, APOLOGIZE to him, or turn into some sex machine to soothe HIS wounded/damaged/low ego.


She pretty much did all that anyway, and it didn't help.


----------



## turnera

Mostlycontent said:


> I think that's close, norajane. What bfree and other men are saying is that her giving it away so freely to another man, when he himself had to earn it, sure makes a guy feel like he is second rate.
> 
> If he thought he was special because she married him, this has shaken his perception of her because obviously, she was more attracted to someone else or just not him.


That's not what he said, though. He said that knowing she'd have sex with a man she wasn't in love with basically made her a sl*t, and he thought he married, if not a virgin, at least the closest thing to it. IME, that usually comes from either low self esteem or a self-righteous/puritanical belief system.

IMO, there's a big difference. It's not that he feels second rate/had to earn it, it's that he more likely just thinks he sucks and now that he knows she's seen a 'great' guy, she'll never look up to him (i.e. fill his low ego) enough to do what he won't do himself - fix his self esteem.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

turnera said:


> But she has done nothing wrong. What she did before dating her husband is none of his business.


You're looking at it from your own point of view. And your point of view is a first world, Western, sexually liberated and feminist point of view. I seem to remember the the OP isn't a native English speaker, which means her point of view likely doesn't include all, or perhaps any, of those things.

Even if she were American, if her husband cared about her sexual history prior to marriage, it would be wrong of her to hide it from him.

So, using a hypothetical example, if the OP is a Muslim from Kosovo, scolding her husband for not having the values of a sexually liberated American atheist won't be productive.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

turnera said:


> That's not what he said, though. He said that knowing she'd have sex with a man she wasn't in love with basically made her a sl*t, and he thought he married, if not a virgin, at least the closest thing to it. IME, that usually comes from either low self esteem or a self-righteous/puritanical belief system.
> 
> IMO, there's a big difference. It's not that he feels second rate/had to earn it, it's that he more likely just thinks he sucks and now that he knows she's seen a 'great' guy, she'll never look up to him (i.e. fill his low ego) enough to do what he won't do himself - fix his self esteem.


I think you missed Emma's latest post. Her husband told her that he was jealous that she was more attracted to the other man than she was to him.

And, ignoring her husband's poor actions in response to his emotions, I'm not sure why you think jealousy, in this case, indicates low self-esteem? If my wife made me wait until marriage for sex, but banged another man on the first date, I certainly would feel jealous and conclude that she wasn't sexually attracted to me. And that conclusion wouldn't be the result of my short-comings. It would be the result of logic.


----------



## EleGirl

EleGirl said:


> There is nothing that Emma can do to make him feel better and less insecure. This is an internal problem that HE has. HE has to fix it.
> 
> People here are telling her to do all kinds of things to prop up his ego, to make him think that she sees him as super stud. It's not going to work.





BronzeTorpedo said:


> I appreciate having a woman's perspective on insecurities. The next time my wife asks me if her pants make her butt look fat, it will be so liberating to answer, "Of course! But that's your insecurity to deal with. So suck it up and stop asking me to prop up your ego."
> 
> All this time, I was approaching the situation entirely differently. What a goof!


LOL… does your wife really ask you something that ridiculous? If she does she’s obviously fishing. We all do little things to make our spouses feel a bit better when they are down. And hopefully they come from a genuine place. Emma’s issue is way beyond that.

We all have insecurities. They become a problem when one spouse starts abusing the other based on their own insecurities?

Does your wife yell at you and tell you that you are not a decent man because she thinks that her butt looks too fat? Does she ignore you for days, snap at you because of this? If she does then I would say the same to you and her. That insecurity is her problem and she has to solve it. Her thinking her butt is looks to big is no justification for being abusive, mean, calling you names, etc.


----------



## EleGirl

BronzeTorpedo said:


> I think you missed Emma's latest post. Her husband told her that he was jealous that she was more attracted to the other man than she was to him.
> 
> And, ignoring her husband's poor actions in response to his emotions, I'm not sure why you think jealousy, in this case, indicates low self-esteem? If my wife made me wait until marriage for sex, but banged another man on the first date, I certainly would feel jealous and conclude that she wasn't sexually attracted to me. And that conclusion wouldn't be the result of my short-comings. It would be the result of logic.


Did Emma say that she had sex on the first date? 

Did Emma say that she made her husband wait until they were married to have sex?


----------



## Wolfman1968

EleGirl said:


> Did Emma say that she had sex on the first date?
> 
> Did Emma say that she made her husband wait until they were married to have sex?



I think clarification by the OP contrasting her early relationship with her husband vs. the fling guy would allow posters to give targeted advice instead of speculating.


----------



## EleGirl

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Agreed plan, but we have a damsel in distress. This isn't really about his amazingly fragile ego (yeah I agreed for a while but come on...) it's about the fact that Emma is pregnant with her child and wants her husband back. So if there are any tools available to lessen her unwarranted suffering, I think we ought to suggest them.


Many of us have suggested the available tools.

Right now she is teaching her husband that it's ok to abuse her. 

Her husband is learning that by being angry, saying ugly things to her, etc that she will jump through hoops, make special dinners for him, etc. So she is rewarding this behavior.

The tool is the 180. Not the 180 for a betrayed spouse... the 180 talked about in the "Divorce Busting" book. She has to still be good and loving to him. But she has to stop rewarding him when the verbally attacks her, give her the cold shoulder for days, etc.

If she starts taking care of herself more and getting away some from the toxic atmosphere that is now filling her home, he will realize that he has to treat her well. 

Sure they can talk about his issues. But he cannot abuse her. She has to stop accepting the abuse.

Once he can no longer act out in an angry, abusive manner he will have to sit back and think things through.


----------



## BronzeTorpedo

EleGirl said:


> Did Emma say that she had sex on the first date?
> 
> Did Emma say that she made her husband wait until they were married to have sex?


My example was an analogy. But it wasn't far off. Emma said that the other man was an acquaintance for a year who never dated her until their week-long sexual affair right before he left the country.

After the other man left, she entered a relationship with her husband, who she always liked, and knew that he always liked her.

Now, I don't think she's said how long she made her husband wait for sex. But it would be very unlikely that the first week of her relationship with her husband was a torrid, sexual affair. As such, his jealousy is understandable.


----------



## Emma24

EleGirl said:


> Did Emma say that she had sex on the first date?
> 
> Did Emma say that she made her husband wait until they were married to have sex?


I didnt make my husband wait unti we were married. After two months of dating, he asked me if we could be intimate and I agreed to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolfman1968

Emma24 said:


> I didnt make my husband wait unti we were married. After two months of dating, he asked me if we could be intimate and I agreed to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does he cite this as an issue now?

I mean, he was berating you (abusively, it should be noted, beyond just anger), saying that you were not "decent" (I think is the word you said).

Is he saying that because he had to wait 2 months, and Fling guy got a week of sex without waiting? 
Or is it just because Fling guy is a "bastard" (I think is the word you used) and he expected you only to get involved with nice guys? Or is it something else?
Or is it because Fling guy got a week of nonstop sex and he never was given that level of intensity for that long?

The posters here are speculating, and clarification would help tailor their advice to you.


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## See_Listen_Love

Emma24 said:


> I did tell him that stress is not good for our baby and I also told him all my feelings about how I feel about him.
> 
> He listened to everything. Said he loves me and felt jealous that I found somebody more attractive than him.
> 
> He made me promise that I will always stay with him and love him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You go against all advise.....The baby will suffer if you continue this behavior. You act like some one having a tooth problem and not wanting to go the dentist, because it hurts...


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## samyeagar

turnera said:


> But she has done nothing wrong. What she did before dating her husband is none of his business. Someone else brought her past into their lives, for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean that she has to now kiss up to him, APOLOGIZE to him, or turn into some sex machine to soothe HIS wounded/damaged/low ego.


I've never even remotely suggested that she did anything wrong, nor apologize to him.


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## samyeagar

Wolfman1968 said:


> I think clarification by the OP contrasting her early relationship with her husband vs. the fling guy would allow posters to give targeted advice instead of speculating.


I think it's largely immaterial what happened in the early stages of her non-relationship with the other guy. It was a sexcapade and nothing more.

It seems her husband has confirmed what I, and many others though from the very beginning. He feels as though he is second rate to this other guy. That she wanted him physically, lusted after him more than the man she married.

If we go back to the original posts, just look at the way she described the other man, years later, and look at how she describes her husband. If, in dealing with all of this, she came even close to talking about the other man to her husband the way she initially did here, it's very easy to see how her husband could feel second rate.

It is also quite likely that her husband might not have felt completely desired by his wife in the ways he wanted to, but was ok with it, thinking that what he had from her was indeed the way she showed her burning desire...then he learned differently

Right or wrong, most people assume that they are their spouses number one because as we're often told here...they married us right? Intellectually, we know that if our partners had a past, there is a chance, a good chance even that we might not be the best in every way, but most of us don't usually have to come face to face knowing we aren't. Most relationships continue politely down the road of blissful ignorance in this regard. The problems start when evidence that one is indeed not number one is unexpectedly thrown into the mix.

When it comes to many men, we'd trade being the number one provider, the number one protector, the bestest laundry doer, vacuumer, cook for being her best lover, and object of her most burning lust and desire...any day of the week.


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## Gonecrazy

Is it just me, or is this post going round in circles?

Who cares what the exact reason hubby is pissed. Focusing on the problem is not going to find the solution!

He has become obsessive, aggressive and selfish. He needs to either get over it and move on, or find another wife who most likely has had some hard core sex with someone else, or worse.

There was a post on here not too long ago that got deleted. Husband rocks up to wife's school reunion to find that his wife blew multiple men at the same time in high school!

Most people have a sexual history and nobody is perfect. It's pointless for a man to try to find miss perfect and marry her. She doesn't exist. At least he knows what her so called "fault" is. 

Emma and baby's health must come first. Is he going to carry this anger and resentment for years? Will they still be fighting over it once baby comes? When baby comes and he is getting less sex is he going to think that hot guy would still be getting it? It needs to be delt with now. The minor details are of no consequence. Man up or move on. Emma's psychological health depends on it!

Gonecrazy


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## samyeagar

Emma24 said:


> I didnt make my husband wait unti we were married. After two months of dating, he asked me if we could be intimate and I agreed to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not that this is important for your husband to know, but could be instructive as to your mindset...did the fling guy have to ask you to be intimate? Would you have agreed to be intimate with your husband much sooner, as in within the first week if he had asked you?

Before some people here go down this road, yes, I know she did nothing wrong, every situation is different, blah, blah, blah. However, there was only a seven month time difference which I don't think is long enough to claim dramatic change in a persons views, nor was there anything traumatic in the non-relationship with the fling guy to claim a drastic behavioral change.


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## happy as a clam

Gonecrazy said:


> Is it just me, or is this post going round in circles?


Yes, it's going round and round in circles.

I pop in here every few days to catch up, only to find Emma's dilemma remains the same. Still at square one.



Gonecrazy said:


> Who cares what the exact reason hubby is pissed...The minor details are of no consequence. Man up or move on. Emma's psychological health depends on it!


Couldn't have said it better.


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## I Don't Know

Emma24 said:


> I didnt make my husband wait unti we were married. After two months of dating, he asked me if we could be intimate and I agreed to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe this is 90% of the problem. Brown eyes got a week of intense sex. H got 2 months of dating after which he asked if you two could have sex and you "agreed". He figured you were probably like this with everyone. Now he's married you with a baby on the way. Knowing what he knows now he feels like you are not really all that attracted to him. But he's stuck. Suck it up or move on doesn't work. He has evidence that his wife isn't hot for him, but he can't rectify the situation (leave) without being a complete d!ck. 

Now he does need to stop being abusive. That sh!t isn't cool. But I'm afraid the best Emma ends up with here is a husband who distances himself from her and continues this as a marriage of convenience. Or she makes the move to divorce.


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## turnera

BronzeTorpedo said:


> I think you missed Emma's latest post. Her husband told her that he was jealous that she was more attracted to the other man than she was to him.


She's never mentioned this man to her H. She's never looked him up, never pined for him, never given her husband any reason to think she wasn't into him, he's never gone wanting, she says their sex is amazing.

The only factor here is that she jumped in the sack with another guy and didn't with him. So it's his ego that's hurt. It's not that she wants another guy, ASAICT. It's just that he feels less sexy, worthy, desirable. So he's punishing her for HIS feelings of unworthiness. When she did nothing wrong.


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## I Don't Know

turnera said:


> She's never mentioned this man to her H. She's never looked him up, never pined for him, never given her husband any reason to think she wasn't into him, he's never gone wanting, she says their sex is amazing.
> 
> The only factor here is that she jumped in the sack with another guy and didn't with him. So it's his ego that's hurt. It's not that she wants another guy, ASAICT. It's just that he feels less sexy, worthy, desirable. So he's punishing her for HIS feelings of unworthiness. When she did nothing wrong.


Actions speak louder than words. If she was as attracted to her H as she was this other guy she'd have jumped in the sack with him too. That's what H is thinking. I think most guys would agree.


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## turnera

I Don't Know said:


> I believe this is 90% of the problem. Brown eyes got a week of intense sex. H got 2 months of dating after which he asked if you two could have sex and you "agreed". He figured you were probably like this with everyone. Now he's married you with a baby on the way. Knowing what he knows now he feels like you are not really all that attracted to him. But he's stuck. Suck it up or move on doesn't work. He has evidence that his wife isn't hot for him, but he can't rectify the situation (leave) without being a complete d!ck.


But HE could have done the exact same thing...sweep her off her feet. He didn't. He chose a different path and he got a different relationship. That's on him. Not her. She RESPONDED to both men, but she seems to have waited for the man in both cases in the manner in which they approached her. And she has amazing sex with her husband, a LOT of it. So she IS hot for him. He's just kicking himself for not being a ladies' man and thinking of seducing a woman for a week of sex. 

Either that or he is puritanical and thinks such a thing's immoral, in which case Emma is screwed, because he will forever consider her tainted material in his uptight, self-righteous world.

Emma, therapy? I didn't see you answer that.


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## turnera

I Don't Know said:


> Actions speak louder than words. If she was as attracted to her H as she was this other guy she'd have jumped in the sack with him too. That's what H is thinking. I think most guys would agree.


In both cases, she waited for the MAN to ask for sex, and in both cases, she agreed. One guy acted like a gigelo and got what he wanted from her. One guy acted like a gentleman and HE got what he wanted from her. How is this her fault? She let the man lead and gave him what he asked for.

The way her H is talking, if SHE had jumped on HIM, he would have dumped her for being a sl*t.


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## samyeagar

turnera said:


> *She's never mentioned this man to her H. *She's never looked him up, never pined for him, never given her husband any reason to think she wasn't into him, he's never gone wanting, she says their sex is amazing.
> 
> The only factor here is that she jumped in the sack with another guy and didn't with him. So it's his ego that's hurt. It's not that she wants another guy, ASAICT. It's just that he feels less sexy, worthy, desirable. So he's punishing her for HIS feelings of unworthiness. When she did nothing wrong.


She kind of had to when the picture showed up. This is the problem with the past being the past. We have no control over how and when it becomes part of the present. Her husband most likely would have continued on in ignorant bliss, and she likely would have continued on never saying anything, which I suspect is how most peoples marriages are, and really, probably should be. But it doesn't always work out that way.

She may have not given him any reason to wonder about how lustfully attracted she is to him, but someone else did, and she can't unring that bell. We have all seen how glowing and doe eyed her description of the other man was in her opening post...she still feels that way after a lot of time has passed, so it is pretty obvious she was beyond enamoured with that guy. If she addressed the picture with her husband in a way that even remotely approaches the way she did here, it would be difficult to think any other way than being second best in the lust department.


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## I Don't Know

turnera said:


> But HE could have done the exact same thing...sweep her off her feet. He didn't. He chose a different path and he got a different relationship. That's on him. Not her. She RESPONDED to both men, but she seems to have waited for the man in both cases in the manner in which they approached her. And she has amazing sex with her husband, a LOT of it. So she IS hot for him. He's just kicking himself for not being a ladies' man and thinking of seducing a woman for a week of sex.
> 
> Either that or he is puritanical and thinks such a thing's immoral, in which case Emma is screwed, because he will forever consider her tainted material in his uptight, self-righteous world.
> 
> Emma, therapy? I didn't see you answer that.


That's a possibility. We don't know that he didn't try for sex sooner, but I'd be willing to assume he didn't for now. 

They have a lot of amazing sex from her POV. I'm betting he doesn't see it that way. Especially compared with what he envisions as the sex she had with Browneyes.

I don't know if he feels like she is tainted or just that he didn't really know her. That she acted one way with him to portray herself a certain way. When I dated someone I kinda assumed they acted fairly true to their nature. If they didn't like sushi with me they probably didn't like it with anyone else either. Naïve I know, but I guess I'm an optimist.


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## Noble1

Emma24 said:


> I didnt make my husband wait unti we were married. After two months of dating, he asked me if we could be intimate and I agreed to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Hello. I have been following the thread with interest mainly on the "divide" between genders and the points of view.

For what is worth, I do feel that your husband is mostly in the wrong for his treatment - not his feelings - but his treatment towards you. I understand where he is coming from, but its not a healthy response towards you.

For your actions with the past guy, I feel you did nothing wrong there either just to be clear.


However...yes of course there is a however....

Your statement/comment above made me verbally say "ouch"!!!

Maybe its just me but the feelings that I felt when reading that makes me really sympathize with your husband.

Hope it all works out and the baby is healthy.

Good luck.


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## larry.gray

turnera said:


> In both cases, she waited for the MAN to ask for sex, and in both cases, she agreed. One guy acted like a gigelo and got what he wanted from her. One guy acted like a gentleman and HE got what he wanted from her. How is this her fault? She let the man lead and gave him what he asked for.
> 
> The way her H is talking, if SHE had jumped on HIM, he would have dumped her for being a sl*t.


You don't know that for sure. My wife did the latter and I don't think of her that way at all. What I thought it meant was that she was into me far more than any other guy she dated. We both recognize that we have *CHEMISTRY* and it's much of our mutual HD.

I understand the madana wh*re complex is common. But this scenario doesn't have to fit into that mold. If Emma's husband's worry simply is the fact that she never felt the raw lust for him based on those two timelines, it doesn't necessarily have to be a slvt shaming scenario.


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## norajane

larry.gray said:


> You don't know that for sure. My wife did the latter and I don't think of her that way at all. What I thought it meant was that she was into me far more than any other guy she dated. We both recognize that we have *CHEMISTRY* and it's much of our mutual HD.
> 
> I understand the madana wh*re complex is common. But this scenario doesn't have to fit into that mold. If Emma's husband's worry simply is the fact that she never felt the raw lust for him based on those two timelines, it doesn't necessarily have to be a slvt shaming scenario.


I agree with you that chemistry is a thing, and there's nothing wrong with people having sex because they have chemistry.

I would be more inclined to agree with you that sl*t shaming wouldn't be an issue here if Emma's H hadn't said, "I thought you were decent!" That to me indicates he thinks her having sex solely for lust purposes is indecent no matter who it was, even him.


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## tech-novelist

norajane said:


> I agree with you that chemistry is a thing, and there's nothing wrong with people having sex because they have chemistry.
> 
> I would be more inclined to agree with you that sl*t shaming wouldn't be an issue here if Emma's H hadn't said, "I thought you were decent!" That to me indicates he thinks her having sex solely for lust purposes is indecent no matter who it was, even him.


I guess that's possible, but for some reason I've never heard anyone say "She had sex with *me *right away. What a ****!"


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## Emma24

My husband did not ask for sex until two months. He used to touch me a lot but was more on the getting-to-know side.

But within two months, it became very difficult to control ourselves. I would go over to his house every day, sometimes even slept over .
And it became extremely difficult to stay with him without touching him.

Right now, hes calm. He is not being rude and is trying to be normal, just like he was. before this issue.
He kissed me before he left for the gym and told me to take rest
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cons

That's good to hear. I hope you both can keep supporting each other....

For awhile there you both were just dueling wounded.


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## norajane

technovelist said:


> I guess that's possible, but for some reason I've never heard anyone say "She had sex with *me *right away. What a ****!"


Oh, you must have missed the 1001 page "what do you think of women having sex on a first date" thread! :rofl:

You would be one of the few who wouldn't happily have sex on the first date, and then drop her after that because she isn't marriage material since she must be a ho if she had sex on the first date.


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## norajane

Emma24 said:


> My husband did not ask for sex until two months. He used to touch me a lot but was more on the getting-to-know side.
> 
> But within two months, it became very difficult to control ourselves. I would go over to his house every day, sometimes even slept over .
> And it became extremely difficult to stay with him without touching him.
> 
> Right now, hes calm. He is not being rude and is trying to be normal, just like he was. before this issue.
> He kissed me before he left for the gym and told me to take rest
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That seems like a positive step forward at this point, Emma. Stay strong and take good care of yourself.


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## samyeagar

norajane said:


> Oh, you must have missed the 1001 page "what do you think of women having sex on a first date" thread! :rofl:
> 
> You would be one of the few who wouldn't happily have sex on the first date, and then drop her after that because she isn't marriage material since she must be a ho if she had sex on the first date.


I've had sex with three women in my life. 1st date, 1st date, 2nd date respectively. The first, I ended up having a two year relationship that ended when she died. The second, I was married to for 17 years. The third, I am currently married to, and have been with her for three years.


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## WonkyNinja

technovelist said:


> I guess that's possible, but for some reason I've never heard anyone say "She had sex with *me *right away. What a ****!"


There was another thread where he was concerned that *she* was easy as she had slept with him on the first or second date. 

I think the irony was lost on him.


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