# Boy, I do NOT know what women want!



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Okay, so my wife is not a great communicator. We've been working on it, and we talked a bit last night, particularly about our sex life. Typically, we're doing it 2-4 times a month and it's usually the same days, though it's not scheduled, per se. I'm okay with the amount - just okay, though, not thrilled. I can live with it, because the sex is good to great.

So at one point in the conversation, I let her know that I would like a more unscheduled sex life. I told her exactly how I felt, in that, even though the actual sex is good, there's no build-up or anticipation, or excitement beforehand. We both know when it's coming, and there's no "before foreplay, foreplay", if that makes sense. She agrees. However, when I ask her for suggestions, she has none. I tell her that over the years I have tried (and still try) to get her in the mood outside of our "unscheduled scheduled times", and the response is always the same - Not right now. Maybe later (never happens). Too tired, are you kidding me, long day at work, getting up early, etc etc etc.

I point out that this doesn't help, and if she's not thrilled about the current arrangements, yet is still only limiting it to these times, then what on earth am *I* supposed to do? She has no suggestions, other than (wait for it!):

"The sex doesn't always have to be so long. If it was shorter sometimes, I'd probably want it more often".

Whaaaaaa?

I asked her if she was actually enjoying it, when it happens, and her answer was yes. (she O's multiple times, every time we have sex). She then tells me (and this was news to me, after 5 years) that she always had trouble having even one in the past, with other partners. This makes me feel good, but also very confused!

So, I say, the sex is apparently better than you've had in the past, you can O no problem, several times per session, we only do it once a week, or less, and you want it to be shorter?

I don't get it. I've always thought stamina in the bedroom was a GOOD thing? I thought paying attention to your woman, ensuring she's well taken care of, was a good thing?

But she's adamant that if we have shorter sessions, she'd want it more often. FWIW, our sessions aren't usually more than 1/2 an hour, anyway, sometimes 20 minutes, from start to finish. It's not like these are all night things.

I'm very confused. My first thoughts were that she's grasping at straws here, telling me something, anything, to show that she's communicating. To agree that she's not thrilled with the "regular" schedule, yet is not at all interested in my advances (and does not make advances on me) outside of our schedule, is hypocritical. So to throw out something like it needs to be shorter, therefore I'd want it more often, almost sounds like a spur of the moment "suggestion" just to show she's "communicating".

Otherwise, I know you women are notoriously difficult to figure out, and I'm at a loss here. I guess I'll try this suggestion of hers and see where that goes... I'm almost just tempted to make it 5 minutes long each time for the next dozen or so times, and see how thrilled she is with that... See if she makes any advances outside of these regular dates. And after a month or so of "wham bam, thank you ma'am" sex, see if she is open to my advances.

I don't hold out hope, though. She (like many other wives here!) tends to "forget" these conversations and not end up working on even their own suggestions, after the fact. Basically leaving it up to me to pick up the slack... sigh


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

If you listen to her you'll be having even less sex than you are having now.

Sorry.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

alexm said:


> Okay, so my wife is not a great communicator. We've been working on it, and we talked a bit last night, particularly about our sex life. Typically, we're doing it 2-4 times a month and it's usually the same days, though it's not scheduled, per se. I'm okay with the amount - just okay, though, not thrilled. I can live with it, because the sex is good to great.
> 
> So at one point in the conversation, I let her know that I would like a more unscheduled sex life. I told her exactly how I felt, in that, even though the actual sex is good, there's no build-up or anticipation, or excitement beforehand. We both know when it's coming, and there's no "before foreplay, foreplay", if that makes sense. She agrees. However, when I ask her for suggestions, she has none. I tell her that over the years I have tried (and still try) to get her in the mood outside of our "unscheduled scheduled times", and the response is always the same - Not right now. Maybe later (never happens). Too tired, are you kidding me, long day at work, getting up early, etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your "unscheduled scheduled times" are at night--try making a move on a Saturday afternoon and see what happens. BTW, it was a real aha moment for me when my W told me she liked it when I became insistent for sex (i.e., not taking the first "no" for an answer).

That business about shorter sessions seems bizarre, though. I wouldn't know what to think either--sounds suspiciously like she wants to get things over with fast. Doesn't jibe with the multi-O story. The reaction of female TAM members would be valuable here.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Hmmm, yeah, I think your gut might be right. She wants to be able to give you a reason, because she knows you want a reason for the sake of communication, but her reason ends up being manufactured because (I'm betting) she doesn't know the real reason. 

Try adding in some shorter sessions, but I wouldn't let a short session substitute for a regular session. Your regular sessions, at 20-30 minutes, aren't that long. At least I don't think so. If your wife is willing to have some quickies in addition to the regular sex you are already getting, would that be a win for you?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Fabulous advice GettingIt. 

Do NOT let the shorter sessions substitute for the regular ones.

If you call her on this and try to get her to commit to a shorter session in ADDITION to the longer ones you'll find out pretty quickly how thin her reason was.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Shorter sessions=lets decrease the time so I can move on to the things I need to do today.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Philat said:


> Sounds like your "unscheduled scheduled times" are at night--try making a move on a Saturday afternoon and see what happens. BTW, it was a real aha moment for me when my W told me she liked it when I became insistent for sex (i.e., not taking the first "no" for an answer).
> 
> I have, and I do. Rarely, rarely results in anything. If I'm persistent, it seems to have the opposite effect that it does on your wife!
> 
> That business about shorter sessions seems bizarre, though. I wouldn't know what to think either--sounds suspiciously like she wants to get things over with fast. Doesn't jibe with the multi-O story. The reaction of female TAM members would be valuable here.


It does, yes, but she DOES enjoy it. There's no faking going on. Obviously I can't be 100% certain of that, but she'd have to be an Oscar caliber actress to pull off the kind of faking she'd have to do.

Maybe she just prefers quickies and has no need to O more than once, and that's okay. (though not what I'd prefer...) What little I do know about her sexual history seems to trend on the never having had great, or long sex with a partner, at least on a regular basis. Her ex, right before me, was a quick shooter, and not very talented in the oral dept. That much she's told me.

FWIW, she's told me over the years that she's never orgasmed from oral before, ever, and she does with me, every time. She never knew she was a squirter until now. And, as I said, she just told me that she usually had a hard time orgasming, period, in the past, with anyone. So it certainly sounds like most, if not all, of her past partners didn't pay much attention to her needs, rather than her not having the capability to enjoy herself.

Now she has someone who can do this to/for her, and she's telling me she'd prefer the short sessions?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Shorter sessions=lets decrease the time so I can move on to the things I need to do today.


I'm not sure that's the case, though I see where you're coming from! It's almost always at night, when the kids are in bed, and there ISN'T anything to do. 9 times out of 10, we're not rolling over and going to sleep immediately after, either, so it's not a "hurry up so I can go to bed" thing. Afterwards, we're usually reading, watching some TV, etc. or one of us is showering, the other one is puttering around somewhere (doing laundry, emptying the dishwasher, whatever).

Besides, the point is that she's ENJOYING it! There's absolutely no indication whatsoever of it being rushed, or "hurry up and get it over with". Ever. That's the weird thing.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

alexm said:


> I'm not sure that's the case, though I see where you're coming from! It's almost always at night, when the kids are in bed, and there ISN'T anything to do. 9 times out of 10, we're not rolling over and going to sleep immediately after, either, so it's not a "hurry up so I can go to bed" thing. Afterwards, we're usually reading, watching some TV, etc. or one of us is showering, the other one is puttering around somewhere (doing laundry, emptying the dishwasher, whatever).
> 
> Besides, the point is that she's ENJOYING it! There's absolutely no indication whatsoever of it being rushed, or "hurry up and get it over with". Ever. That's the weird thing.


Is she REALLY enjoying it though? I hate going there but I know when I was in my last marriage I could have won an emmy for how great I faked it.I did it bc he wouldn't get off any other way and I just wanted it to be over.He REALLY thought I was into sex with him and I just wanted to please him and be done.

I'm not saying your wife is doing this but her excuses sound much like mine did.So many women out there will never say "I don't like having sex/I don't ever feel like having sex" bc they don't want to lose their husband to someone else and they don't want to hurt their husband or damage his ego.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> Fabulous advice GettingIt.
> 
> Do NOT let the shorter sessions substitute for the regular ones.
> 
> If you call her on this and try to get her to commit to a shorter session in ADDITION to the longer ones you'll find out pretty quickly how thin her reason was.


alexm - I would suggest just implementing this and then pointing out her statement when she complains.

I say this because there is an undercurrent in your posts of trying to convince her on the subject. Not only on your discussions, but on you focus on how great the sex is for her. So consider that you are working too hard in pleasing her. 

Assuming that she does orgasm with you (and hoping that SB is wrong), perhaps you are too focused on her. My wife has admitted that she loves when I take charge and take what I want and don't worry about her. I get that response when I push things a bit beyond her comfort zone because it is something I want to do. It helps avoid the rut where I follow steps A-E in order because that always gets her off. So think about whether worrying so much about her O is actually turning her off a bit.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I hope I'm wrong too


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

As the saying goes, pay attention to what they do, not what they say.

Has you wife done anything to give you the impression that she wanted the sessions to be shorter? Is there anything going on during sex that leads you to believe that what she is saying is true?

You say she is not a good communicator, but she just may be better than you realize in a non-verbal way. She does not seem to initiate sex in any spontaneous way. Does that not tell you something? If she enjoys sex as much as she says, does that make any sense to you?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Do you guys have actual time/dates where you schedule to have sex? I'm curious.

Stamina is a wonderful thing. But there is such a thing as too long, IMO, especially if I've already gotten off...eons ago. I'm like COME, PLEASE!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Stamina is a wonderful thing. But there is such a thing as too long, IMO, especially if I've already gotten off...eons ago. I'm like COME, PLEASE!


:iagree: It's cool to have a man who wants to keep going in hopes of having me get another O in there somewhere but after a while it's like "ok,I've had enough O's to where it's now sensitive enough to be painful...c*m or get off." LOL


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Well, I can't be 100% sure, I guess!

I really don't think so, though. (and it's not my ego telling me this). It's a gut feeling that she's not, coupled with the fact that physically, it's fairly obvious that she's enjoying herself. (like I said, squirter. Not sure you can fake that. And she's a strong orgasmer, which I can feel while inside her.)

You may be right, though, that the second half is being faked, more or less. This has happened. When she's already had a few, and I'm still working on mine, it's obvious when she's, uh, cheering me on! I don't really view that as faking, though. It's more encouraging me to enjoy myself, and it's 1000x better than her saying "I'm done, would you hurry up and finish yourself?" (even though that's probably exactly what she's thinking!)

I've never been in the position of finishing before my partner did, then having to continue pretending I'm still into it for her sake. For most of us men who aren't 19 years old, we need a break afterwards. Maybe for her, 5 orgasms before I've had one, and she has to keep the "still enjoying it" face on until I'm done is a lot to ask.

I'll meet her in the middle, I think. From now on, she gets 1, maybe 2 O's, then I'm going to town!

The irony of all this is that she's a quick finisher, and a multiple Orgasmer, meanwhile I have stamina and control. She's probably learned to O quickly given her past partners (though apparently not quick enough!) and she's not used to somebody with stamina and control. And because my ex wife basically made me be a quick finisher, I have no interest in doing that again.

So ladies, is it a bad idea to ask her to have a bit of control over her own orgasms and try to prolong having them for a bit? Meanwhile I will work on letting myself go a little sooner than I usually do...



ScarletBegonias said:


> Is she REALLY enjoying it though? I hate going there but I know when I was in my last marriage I could have won an emmy for how great I faked it.I did it bc he wouldn't get off any other way and I just wanted it to be over.He REALLY thought I was into sex with him and I just wanted to please him and be done.
> 
> I'm not saying your wife is doing this but her excuses sound much like mine did.So many women out there will never say "I don't like having sex/I don't ever feel like having sex" bc they don't want to lose their husband to someone else and they don't want to hurt their husband or damage his ego.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

alexm said:


> Well, I can't be 100% sure, I guess!
> 
> I really don't think so, though. (and it's not my ego telling me this). It's a gut feeling that she's not, coupled with the fact that physically, it's fairly obvious that she's enjoying herself. (like I said, squirter. Not sure you can fake that. And she's a strong orgasmer, which I can feel while inside her.)
> 
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Jellybeans said:


> Do you guys have actual time/dates where you schedule to have sex? I'm curious.
> 
> Stamina is a wonderful thing. But there is such a thing as too long, IMO, especially if I've already gotten off...eons ago. I'm like COME, PLEASE!


No, but it usually just ends up that way. It's become an unspoken schedule, of sorts.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

That sucks. Get off the schedule, man! Starting doing it on other days/times. No wonder it feels like a rut! 

It reminds me of that Jim Carrey movie, Liar Liar, where he tells his wife he wants to have sex and she agrees and says... "We should have sex... on Saturday." And he was so happy and I thought that was so sad. 

How is your emotional connection w/ her? I find that I am way more aroused/spontaneous if I am emotionally into someone than not. A lot of women are like this.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Regarding your wife's O's, there is a difference between feeling it and FEELING her have one. At least it's that way with my wife. When my wife is getting close to her O, clamps down on me like I'm in a vise. If the only feedback you are getting is she's making noises and "throwing herself about", then it's a possibility that she's faking an orgasm. Regarding oral and trying not to go TMI here, but are you "seeing" her orgasm? 

Sorry if this is coming across as talking down to you. It's not my intent.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> That sucks. Get off the schedule, man! Starting doing it on other days/times. No wonder it feels like a rut!
> 
> It reminds me of that Jim Carrey movie, Liar Liar, where he tells his wife he wants to have sex and she agrees and says... "We should have sex... on Saturday." And he was so happy and I thought that was so sad.
> 
> How is your emotional connection w/ her? I find that I am way more aroused/spontaneous if I am emotionally into someone than not. A lot of women are like this.


Having a schedule or being aware of times when you know the chances of having sex is not the major problem here. In most cases, the idea of something tangible in the future should build all sorts of anticipation. We all love our weekends. Just because they always come at the same predictable time, it doesn't mean that I still don't feel excited when Friday evening comes and it's the weekend.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Tall Average Guy said:


> alexm - I would suggest just implementing this and then pointing out her statement when she complains.
> 
> *I am going to do this, but I don't think she'll complain. She would if every single time became several minutes long, in which I finish and she doesn't, and I roll over and go to bed. From the sounds of it, that was what she was used to, before me.*
> 
> ...


*That, I can buy. But like I said, none of this makes sense to me. Her previous experiences all point to not having a partner who has been focused on her at all. I'm not sure WHY she'd prefer it that way, as opposed to somebody who DOES. But yes, maybe it's too much. Maybe, as I said, she gets one freebie from me before, as part of foreplay, then it's PIV. If she has another one during that, then great, if not, well, she already had the first one!

It still doesn't make sense, but oh well. I'm not her, and not everything has to make sense, I suppose.*


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Stamina is a wonderful thing. But there is such a thing as too long, IMO, especially if I've already gotten off...eons ago. I'm like COME, PLEASE!


I could see this if he said it was 2 hours but he said it was 20-30 minutes.

Her excuse is lame. 20-30 minutes is NOTHING especially when you consider it's only 2-4 times a MONTH.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Regarding your wife's O's, there is a difference between feeling it and FEELING her have one. At least it's that way with my wife. When my wife is getting close to her O, clamps down on me like I'm in a vise. If the only feedback you are getting is she's making noises and "throwing herself about", then it's a possibility that she's faking an orgasm. Regarding oral and trying not to go TMI here, but are you "seeing" her orgasm?
> 
> Sorry if this is coming across as talking down to you. It's not my intent.


Yes, all of that. It's apparent and obvious (unless she has that Oscar hidden away somewhere!) 

It's seen AND felt, not just seen. And the state of the sheets speak volumes.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

alexm said:


> Yes, all of that. It's apparent and obvious (unless she has that Oscar hidden away somewhere!)
> 
> It's seen AND felt, not just seen. And the state of the sheets speak volumes.


:smthumbup::smthumbup:

So then maybe she has a hard time changing gears to get into a sexual state of mind.Maybe there needs to be more subtle flirtation going on long before either person gets naked
The only thing that keeps my drive up and ready is keeping sex on the brain as often as I can.There is a marked difference in my excitement about actually doing it when we've been teasing each other all day vs barely texting or speaking about it all day.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Jellybeans said:


> That sucks. Get off the schedule, man! Starting doing it on other days/times. No wonder it feels like a rut!
> 
> *I've tried. And she AGREES that she's not fond of the unscheduled schedule, either. As I said earlier, even though she doesn't like the "routine" and is feeling the same way about it as I do, it's always her making the typical excuses of being too tired, have something to do, etc etc etc. Trust me, this was lowest common denominator and plan A, but it doesn't change a thing. I still try, though.*
> 
> ...


*If you've read my previous posts, you'll see that it's not great. It's not terrible, but it's not great. She's not a communicator, unless prodded. And trust me, I don't hound her about ANYTHING. If she's not willing to talk, I don't bother her UNLESS it's something that I feel is major. At that point I will tell her flat out "this needs to be discussed at some point, preferably sooner than later." Last night, for example, I brought up this subject with her. Her initial reaction was short answers and changing the subject. I didn't accept that, told her it needs to be discussed, how about you tell me what works for you on your schedule, and we will talk about it. She decided to talk right then and there. And the original post was what resulted. To me, it was left unresolved, and she eventually went to bed. As in, got up, said good night, and went upstairs. Not rudely, or in a huff. She just waited until a lull in the conversation and took her "out". We did get as far as the original post said, which WAS headway, but obviously I felt the need to come here, so it wasn't fully resolved with any viable solutions coming from her.*


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ScarletBegonias said:


> :smthumbup::smthumbup:
> 
> So then maybe she has a hard time changing gears to get into a sexual state of mind.Maybe there needs to be more subtle flirtation going on long before either person gets naked
> The only thing that keeps my drive up and ready is keeping sex on the brain as often as I can.There is a marked difference in my excitement about actually doing it when we've been teasing each other all day vs barely texting or speaking about it all day.


I am convinced she is a freak of nature. 

I do not believe she is a sexual person in the slightest.

I believe she ENJOYS sex and is more than capable of orgasms.

I do not believe ANYTHING turns her on BEFORE sex, literally. It IS the sex that turns her on. There is no build up, anticipation, wanting, etc. Seeing a hot sweaty naked guy does nothing for her. Having me talk dirty to her, be flirty with her, be close or emotional, nothing.

I believe sex, to her, is the act itself, not anything surrounding it.

Before she and I started dating, she says she never felt horny. Nothing ever MADE her horny. She NEVER masturbated, even with just her fingers, before she and I bought a vibrator several years back. (she initially used it quite often, now it's probably only a few times a month, if that. That I know of. Never an issue for me. I jerk off daily, if I can.)

Sex, to her, was several things. It was what you did with your boyfriend. And for a short period in her life, it was what you did to get attention/be desired/feel good about yourself. An ego boost. Somebody wants to sleep with me, that makes me feel good, so I'll sleep with him.

To her, I don't believe it's an important part of a relationship, other than it's expected. It's two separate things that she can't properly correlate with each other. In that sex strengthens the relationship by bringing two people who love each other together in an intimate way. Sex, for her, is about getting off, and she's content with getting off a few times a month, and doesn't see the relationship benefits of doing it more often.

There are lots of people here who have husbands and wives who have as much (little) sex as we do, but it's a HUGE issue because the sex isn't good, and their partners are clearly only doing it because they feel they have to.

I am in the same boat, BUT, my wife clearly DOES enjoy it. It's something she feels she has to do, for me, but the sex IS good for her, and she's not just going through the motions.

It's bizarre.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Having a schedule or being aware of times when you know the chances of having sex is not the major problem here.
> 
> We all love our weekends. Just because they always come at the same predictable time, it doesn't mean that I still don't feel excited when Friday evening comes and it's the weekend.


That may work for you but personally I wouldn't find it exciting having a sex schedule of predictable times.

Different strokes, I guess.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I got a book on understanding women. It was 900 blank pages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Thound said:


> I got a book on understanding women. It was 900 blank pages.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That sounds about right.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Thound said:


> I got a book on understanding women. It was 900 blank pages.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


only 900?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

alexm said:


> *That, I can buy. But like I said, none of this makes sense to me. Her previous experiences all point to not having a partner who has been focused on her at all. I'm not sure WHY she'd prefer it that way, as opposed to somebody who DOES. But yes, maybe it's too much. Maybe, as I said, she gets one freebie from me before, as part of foreplay, then it's PIV. If she has another one during that, then great, if not, well, she already had the first one!
> 
> It still doesn't make sense, but oh well. I'm not her, and not everything has to make sense, I suppose.*


I am not sure that it completely makes sense to me either (my wife loves broccoli, and that makes no sense to me either). The best explanation I have seen on these boards is that me taking her, being so in lust with her that I just have her, is a big turn on for her. In some sense, she wants me to own her.

Like so much of life, it may be about balance. So mixing some of that into your routine might help things. Having steak is great. Having steak every day gets old.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The OP's wife has a fixed SLA of x minutes / hours a month. More often means less time per occurrence so it boils down to one or two great nookies a month or a bunch of quickies.

I'd keep track of things only to the extent than when she throttles back - like any self respecting LD  - you'll spot it faster...


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

> I'm very confused. My first thoughts were that she's grasping at straws here, telling me something, anything, to show that she's communicating. To agree that she's not thrilled with the "regular" schedule, *yet is not at all interested in my advances (and does not make advances on me) outside of our schedule*, is hypocritical. So to throw out something like it needs to be shorter, therefore I'd want it more often, almost sounds like a spur of the moment "suggestion" just to show she's "communicating".
> 
> Otherwise, I know you women are notoriously difficult to figure out, and I'm at a loss here. I guess I'll try this suggestion of hers and see where that goes... I'm almost just tempted to make it 5 minutes long each time for the next dozen or so times, and see how thrilled she is with that... *See if she makes any advances outside of these regular dates*. And after a month or so of "wham bam, thank you ma'am" sex, see if she is open to my advances.
> 
> I don't hold out hope, though. She (like many other wives here!) tends to "forget" these conversations and not end up working on even their own suggestions, after the fact. *Basically leaving it up to me to pick up the slack*... sigh


Man...I feel for you, as what I highlighted was exactly what I got from my STBXW.
She NEVER or very rarely ever showed any interest in me. While the times we did have sex, like you, I could always bring her to O and could feel it when it happened and knew it wasn't just an act, but the big thing for me that was lacking was any interest from her outside of the bedroom. Not a single attractive wink, pat on the bottom, or touching of any kind. Even when I initiated touches of any kind would only be tolerated for a few moments before she would pull away.

I hate to say it, but from my experience is that while she does enjoy some sex, she just isn't as into it nor is she attracted to you to even desire having sex with you. I don't think sex is as near important to her as it is to you. For you, it is part of the connection you have to maintain a healthy relationship, but it is not for her.
I imagine that if you did a test of not touching her, nor initiated sex, you would become celibate in a hurry because she wouldn't do anything on her part to see that it remained.

I think you need marriage counseling or some other help other than just addressing the sex issue, because I believe there to be deeper problems in your relationship.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> only 900?


Well I didnt see a point in ordering Volumns 2 and 3.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

alexm said:


> I am convinced she is a freak of nature.
> 
> I do not believe she is a sexual person in the slightest.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, sex to me means so much more than having orgasms. Orgasms are great, but a dime a dozen for me, and, it sounds like, for your wife. It's the rest of the experience that drives my desire--the flirting, the feeling desired, the rush of sexually pleasing my husband, the excitement of "pushing the envelope" on our fantasizes, and the intense emotional closeness. Sex with my husband is much more about my relationship with him than it is about what my body is feeling.

If ALL she is getting from sex is a bunch of easily obtained orgasms, then I can see why it might not be something she craves.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

GettingIt said:


> Hmmm, sex to me means so much more than having orgasms. Orgasms are great, but a dime a dozen for me, and, it sounds like, for your wife. It's the rest of the experience that drives my desire--the flirting, the feeling desired, the rush of sexually pleasing my husband, the excitement of "pushing the envelope" on our fantasizes, and the intense emotional closeness. Sex with my husband is much more about my relationship with him than it is about what my body is feeling.
> 
> If ALL she is getting from sex is a bunch of easily obtained orgasms, then I can see why it might not be something she craves.


Totally agree. Totally. Just wondering where (or even if) I went wrong? I'm a passionate, romantic, thoughtful guy. I can also be a bad-*** when necessary.

The flirting, making her feel desired, etc. has no effect on her, and never did. She either misses entirely what I'm doing (ie. it's going over her head) or she totally knows what I'm doing and shuts it down. Depends on the day and time!

Trust me, I'm no noob when it comes to this stuff, and certainly for the "usual" advice given here (which is normally good). I could buy her flowers, cook her dinner, flirt with her for days in advance, overtly or subtly, shower, shave, make myself smell good, get a babysitter, all that. And we'll still end up going to bed at 10 with her kissing me goodnight and turning off the light. Sex is not something put into her head in advance of it actually happening.

I hate to say it, but the idea of her not being attracted to me in that way is seeming more and more likely. The only thing keeping me from believing that 100% is that she has shown no indication of feeling like that about ANYBODY, not just me. I'm pretty sure she's not into women, either.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So when you've asked her if she enjoys it and she says yes, have you told her it's ok to say no? Women are often terrified to admit to their partner that they don't enjoy it for fear of hurting his feelings, thus they lie all the time. I see all these men claiming their wives have multiple O's, but while I admit I've not had this talk with a ton of my fellow ladies I've never known one woman that admitted she did. It's really easy to fake (sorry) and I suspect women fake a lot more often then men think, esp if they want it over. Anyway, I suspect as someone else already said that she's just not that into you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

alexm said:


> So ladies, is it a bad idea to ask her to have a bit of control over her own orgasms and try to prolong having them for a bit? Meanwhile I will work on letting myself go a little sooner than I usually do...


Forgive me if I missed it, but I don't believe anyone directly addressed this question yet. In my opinion - this is a very valid thing to do. 30 seconds - 2 minutes of whatever you're doing to get her off before her orgasm (even multiple times) is probably not enough to take her through all the emotional, physical, sexual parts of sex to make it deeply fulfilling to her.

When she gets close, change what you're doing, so she can't. Keep on like that. Don't be cruel about it, this is for her pleasure, but be firm - don't give in just because it's been 3 whole minutes and she's asking for it. Give her one good one when you're very close to your own, and you can move on to the cuddling. No one can say that's not fair. 

Many women who can have multiple orgasms experience them differently (as in, the first one feels different from the fourth). That's my personal experience. Obviously everyone is different, but if my H gave me 5 orgasms in 20 minutes and THEN started PIV, I would be unhappy about it! "Raw and sore" is not my favorite sensation. Everything gets progressively more sensitive and desire starts to decline after a certain point (just like with a man). Of course women *can* have orgasms after we don't want to have sex anymore, she may just not want to.

So, if you are fulfilling her before you even start PIV sex, you are not getting the best of her, and she may not be enjoying the PIV much at all, thus making her not want to have sex that much. Because orgasms, as mentioned before, are not exactly hard to get. 

I'm not sure how likely this is, but she may be able to go a lot longer between having sex because of the multiples. I've stopped having them and just have one now and I want to have sex every day. When I was having multiples, I didn't think about sex as much or want it as much. This could well be the opposite in many women, so I'm by no means saying this is how it is, but that's what I've experienced (though I think I'm a weirdo anyway).


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

The OP should not feel so alone. With a rare exception, the wife likes the five minute special as well. I am more than willing to do more than just PIV for two minutes but that is all she wants. I was under the impression that women wanted all the little stuff and not just the sex. Apparently, that preference is not universal in our cases.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

lifeistooshort said:


> So when you've asked her if she enjoys it and she says yes, have you told her it's ok to say no?
> 
> *Yes, of course. Though I doubt that would make her tell me so, if she is terrified of hurting my feelings.*
> 
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

That was some great advice, thank you! Everything makes sense, and that was the point of view I was looking and hoping for. 



omega said:


> Forgive me if I missed it, but I don't believe anyone directly addressed this question yet. In my opinion - this is a very valid thing to do. 30 seconds - 2 minutes of whatever you're doing to get her off before her orgasm (even multiple times) is probably not enough to take her through all the emotional, physical, sexual parts of sex to make it deeply fulfilling to her.
> 
> When she gets close, change what you're doing, so she can't. Keep on like that. Don't be cruel about it, this is for her pleasure, but be firm - don't give in just because it's been 3 whole minutes and she's asking for it. Give her one good one when you're very close to your own, and you can move on to the cuddling. No one can say that's not fair.
> 
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Who knew? All this time I thought women all wanted a partner who paid attention to them, and them first! Multiple orgasms (or even just one) seems like what so many women want, and aren't getting. All you ever hear are women who complain that their partners are selfish in bed, or too quick, or don't do x or y right. All along, I thought that what I was doing is a woman's biggest desire in bed. But nope!

You guys are nuts! (in a good way). You have blond hair, you want dark. You have dark hair, you want blond. Big boobs? I'd rather have small ones. Small boobs? Wish I had big ones. Tall women want to be short, short women want to be tall. I wish men wouldn't stare at me so much. Why don't men stare at me ever? Wish my husband would do this. My husband DOES do this, but I wish he wouldn't.

Sigh.

Women! Can't figure 'em out to save my life...


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> The OP should not feel so alone. With a rare exception, the wife likes the five minute special as well. I am more than willing to do more than just PIV for two minutes but that is all she wants. I was under the impression that women wanted all the little stuff and not just the sex. Apparently, that preference is not universal in our cases.


I'm guessing that wanting a "five minute special" is an indication that she can't or doesn't want to put her head and heart in the game. 

Not always, but if that's all she wants . . .


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

alexm said:


> Women! Can't figure 'em out to save my life...


Yet you can't live without us . . .


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> I'm guessing that wanting a "five minute special" is an indication that she can't or doesn't want to put her head and heart in the game.
> 
> Not always, but if that's all she wants . . .


You are most likely correct. Well, she has 20 months to figure it out. As of yet, I am still mystified as to how she wants so little of it.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

alexm said:


> Who knew? All this time I thought women all wanted a partner who paid attention to them, and them first! Multiple orgasms (or even just one) seems like what so many women want, and aren't getting. All you ever hear are women who complain that their partners are selfish in bed, or too quick, or don't do x or y right. All along, I thought that what I was doing is a woman's biggest desire in bed. But nope!




I think it's the case that no matter how much one person NEEDS x, someone else HATES it, and vice versa. Someone had a "I didn't know there were any women who didn't like ___" response to a post I made recently - and it was a woman! I don't think there is a single aspect of sex that everyone can agree is great. There are lots of people whose #1 sexual desire is not to have orgasms at all, after all....


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

GettingIt said:


> Yet you can't live without us . . .


Debatable!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> You are most likely correct. Well, she has 20 months to figure it out. As of yet, I am still mystified as to how she wants so little of it.


Well, I can think of at least a dozen reasons. See pages 750-761 of Volume III of A Man's Guide to Understanding Women.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Well, I can think of at least a dozen reasons. See pages 750-761 of Volume III of A Man's Guide to Understanding Women.


I looked that up online and it is a blank book. 

Anyways, I can't get enough of giving oral to her but she has turned me down for over a year now.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I looked that up online and it is a blank book.
> 
> Anyways, I can't get enough of giving oral to her but she has turned me down for over a year now.


The words are visible only to men ready for the great truths revealed within. Continue to work on yourself, and one day you too shall be prepared to receive great knowledge. 

As for the oral: she's crazy. That is all.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Oral was always a trust thing for me.No trust...no oral.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Oral was always a trust thing for me.No trust...no oral.


Interesting.

I have never cheated. That topic has never even came up in our conversations. Maybe she thinks that I am and refuses to voice that concern.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I have never cheated. That topic has never even came up in our conversations. Maybe she thinks that I am and refuses to voice that concern.


It wasn't trust about cheating,for me at least.It was emotional trust that was lacking. I don't know how to explain it better  I'm sorry

ETA: I didn't trust him not to silently judge the way I looked,tasted,smelled.I didn't trust him to not be impatient if I took too long.I started off being ok with it sort of but the more resentments and emotional betrayals I felt,the more I hid my body from him.The more I limited the contact I'd let him have with me while naked.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It wasn't trust about cheating,for me at least.It was emotional trust that was lacking. I don't know how to explain it better  I'm sorry
> 
> ETA: I didn't trust him not to silently judge the way I looked,tasted,smelled.I didn't trust him to not be impatient if I took too long.I started off being ok with it sort of but the more resentments and emotional betrayals I felt,the more I hid my body from him.The more I limited the contact I'd let him have with me while naked.


I will keep what you say in mind. We had three years of a healthy sex life and now have had a three year drought. Maybe that is part of the puzzle.


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## hubby59 (Nov 22, 2013)

I'm new here. In fact this is my first post, but there are many similarities between the scenario you described and my own. We do have sex more frequently than you, but at times it seems like it is a lot more perfunctory for her than for me. We've talked about it countless times and yet, it's like we never have talked about it because my wife seemingly buries the conversation somewhere in her mind, never to be resurfaced until I do it. I understand your frustration, but encourage you to stick with it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alexm said:


> Who knew? All this time I thought women all wanted a partner who paid attention to them, and them first! Multiple orgasms (or even just one) seems like what so many women want, and aren't getting. All you ever hear are women who complain that their partners are selfish in bed, or too quick, or don't do x or y right. All along, I thought that what I was doing is a woman's biggest desire in bed. But nope!
> 
> You guys are nuts! (in a good way). You have blond hair, you want dark. You have dark hair, you want blond. Big boobs? I'd rather have small ones. Small boobs? Wish I had big ones. Tall women want to be short, short women want to be tall. I wish men wouldn't stare at me so much. Why don't men stare at me ever? Wish my husband would do this. My husband DOES do this, but I wish he wouldn't.
> 
> ...


Perhaps part of your problem is that you are looking at this want do 'you women want', as though all women want the same thing.

Sorry, we do not all want the same thing.

You need to figure out what your woman wants.

This thread has concentrated on sex. Perhaps the issues with your wife have little to do with sex and more to do with what is going on outside the sex.

She sounds stressed with little free time.

How much time weekly does she get just to herself with nothing that she has to do?

How many hours a week do the two of you spend doing date-like things together, just the two of you?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Perhaps part of your problem is that you are looking at this want do 'you women want', as though all women want the same thing.
> 
> Sorry, we do not all want the same thing.
> 
> ...


It's been my experience from reading SIM that lack of sex or boring sex is rarely the root cause of the unhappiness. There is almost always another reason for the unhappiness, and the sex life normally suffers as a result.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> ETA: I didn't trust him not to silently judge the way I looked,tasted,smelled.I didn't trust him to not be impatient if I took too long.I started off being ok with it sort of but the more resentments and emotional betrayals I felt,the more I hid my body from him.The more I limited the contact I'd let him have with me while naked.


Yes, I've felt this way, and I think a lot of women feel this way. 

For me, it comes down to how comfortable I am accepting that my husband isn't silently judging me. He has never given me any indication that he does judge me, but I judge myself and society judges women's bodies, so I (unfairly, yes) feel that he MUST be judging me similarly. In the years when my husband I had huge intimacy issues, this sort of trust really dried up. I never worried about him cheating on me, but I worried constantly that he was mad at me, thought I was unattractive, and was just "putting up with me" during sex so he could get off. 

It's a HUGE mind fvck. Working on repairing our intimacy has done wonders for helping me tackle the problem from my end. The more I come to trust him emotionally, the more I come to believe in his love and attraction to me, the more I can open up to him sexually. 

Tyler, I suspect that there are things that bother your wife about her body or sex with you or your relationship that she feels like she just can't tell you. It doesn't mean that you are doing anything wrong, but she has to want to do the work to overcome the trust issues that are causing the inhibitions. 

She knows you are unhappy about sex, and that you might leave her. She might have a fair amount of anxiety over the fact that a child is about to come into a potentially failing marriage. This probably isn't helping her work through any trust issues she might have.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Tyler, I suspect that there are things that bother your wife about her body or sex with you or your relationship that she feels like she just can't tell you. It doesn't mean that you are doing anything wrong, but she has to want to do the work to overcome the trust issues that are causing the inhibitions.
> 
> She knows you are unhappy about sex, and that you might leave her. She might have a fair amount of anxiety over the fact that a child is about to come into a potentially failing marriage. This probably isn't helping her work through any trust issues she might have.


This thread is not about me but she has 20 months to figure it out.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> This thread is not about me but she has 20 months to figure it out.


20 months to figure it out? That's a long ass time especially if it has already ready been 3 years with nothing going on.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It wasn't trust about cheating,for me at least.It was emotional trust that was lacking. I don't know how to explain it better  I'm sorry
> 
> ETA: I didn't trust him not to silently judge the way I looked,tasted,smelled.I didn't trust him to not be impatient if I took too long.I started off being ok with it sort of but the more resentments and emotional betrayals I felt,the more I hid my body from him.The more I limited the contact I'd let him have with me while naked.


I agree sometimes you have to make her feel comfortable, that is a vulnerable position to be in. 

Other girls have no problem shoving your head down there and riding your face like bull. "STOP STOP I can't breath!!!" LOL


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Another Planet said:


> 20 months to figure it out? That's a long ass time especially if it has already ready been 3 years with nothing going on.


Baby due In April.

Anyways, the other women that I have been with have not been so predisposed to quickies.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Baby due In April.
> 
> Anyways, the other women that I have been with have not been so predisposed to quickies.


Uhhh I don't want to hijack this thread but if you hadn't had sex in 3yrs how did she get prego? Plus I wouldn't wait 1 1/2 years after baby was born to get it on.

And I don't know if this has been discussed much here but has anyone ever addressed that sometimes women don't want to have sex because they DO NOT want to risk accidentally getting pregnant, sometimes BC doesn't work and condoms break.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Another Planet said:


> Uhhh I don't want to hijack this thread but if you hadn't had sex in 3yrs how did she get prego? Plus I wouldn't wait 1 1/2 years after baby was born to get it on.
> 
> And I don't know if this has been discussed much here but has anyone ever addressed that sometimes women don't want to have sex because they DO NOT want to risk accidentally getting pregnant, sometimes BC doesn't work and condoms break.


To avoid hi-jacking this thread, my sordid tale in on the Cumulative Count for the Year thread on SIM. We have sex but rarely and it is very short.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> Perhaps part of your problem is that you are looking at this want do 'you women want', as though all women want the same thing.
> 
> Sorry, we do not all want the same thing.
> 
> ...


*Depends on the week, but there's almost always time set aside for that. The only alone time we have isn't just filled by sex. We do other things, too! And I certainly don't expect, or insist on sex every single time we're alone. *


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm a little late, but on the topic of oral sex: I don't like receiving oral. It's not about how skilled the man is, it's just not a turn on to me. There are lots of things that turn me on, but receiving oral isn't on my list. No big deal. We just do the other things. 

There is no single thing that every woman likes. Not even one. 

So, do not make assumptions.


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