# Wife going for a weekend away without me?



## Chris22

Hi everyone, thought this was the most appropriate place to post the short version of the predicament I'm in (long version in considering divorce)

Thanks to anyone who might offer advice or insight.

Basically our relationship has been on the rocks really. Nothing too serious, (I.e. domestic abuse, extreme PA on either part,)

Got to a point a few weeks ago where my wife kissed another man (a mutual acquaintance) on a night out.

She told me the next day, and I know what she is like when drunk, she's useless and irresponsible and on occasion drinks way too much. 

Following this she and our daughter of 2 moved in with her mother, she said she didn't know if she loves me or wants to be with me anymore.

We have talked occasionally over the last month with mixed results however yesterday I found out she was texting him (unbeknown to her I have seen the content of these texts) but she knows that I know. I confronted her and after a large argument full of lies on her part and anger and pain on mine she broke down and swore she would stop, but insisted she still needs a bit of time. I have given her till the middle of next month to decide weather she wants to be with me or I will divorce her, this time limit ends on the day before she goes on an adult weekend at butlins (a holiday park full of pubs and clubs) for her mates 21st birthday. 

Obviously if she chooses not to be with me sadly what happens at this adult weekend is none of my business, I believe I have sort of come to terms with that. What worries me is if she chooses to stay with me... I don't trust her enough to go away for that period of time with her semi-responsible friends, especially as I have frequently seen what a liability there are when drunk. It really is a miracle that my wife hasn't had serious trouble in recent years.. Some of her friends have not been so lucky.

These feelings won't last forever, the love for my wife is strong enough that I feel if we both work at this we can overcome all the hurt anger and distrust. But for a while at least I will still have my doubts, but that's the cost of marriage reconciliation in its early stages. 

It just so happens that my wifes friend's boyfriend is friends with the guy my wife kissed... So he's going to be there too.

Through the texts I knew she was intending on seeing him there, and although she swore to end all contact with him I'm still not comfortable with her going and I don't know if I'm justified In my fear. 

I'm scared that if I ask her not to go this will push her away and make me out to be the bad paranoid guy in front of all my wifes friends and family, and that if I head down there myself this will yield the same result. Also if I have to intervene myself is there any point in trying to stop her anyway? As I feel that the decision has to come from her and not me. 

Since confronting her on the texts she has come around somewhat. She's spending more time with me, seems happier, and actively chooses to see me instead of me always having to chase her and reason with her.

I haven't yet confronted her on my concerns about her going away for the weekend, we both went last year and it was ok, but that was before we had any marital problems.

Should the fact she swore to me that she would stop contact with this guy be enough? Am I being too worried? Or should I at least do something such as e-mailing the guy she kissed or letting her family know she was texting him in the hopes that it might prevent further activity.

The reason this hurts so much, is that I really love my wife very much, she is.. Or at least was an AMAZING person, and for the sake of our happiness and our daughters happiness I want things to work.

I feel lost and I don't know how to approach this.

Cheers for reading guys, Chris.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Sir, your wife did more than a drunken kiss, that doesn't lead to her continuing to contact him and her moving out.

She is in an affair , bith emotional and physical and is planning on having you babysit while she goes to a drunken adult party weekend with her friend, her friends bf, and the OM.

It's pretty clear she is the OMs date for the weekend.

Why are you giving her time to continue talking with him and to decide if she wants to remain you wife?

What is actually going to change between now and your further deadline.

I see her losing respect for you by your giving her this time. Instead of you standing up for yourself and your marriage and insisting that she is either a faithful wife and the OM and affair ends NOW or she is to be a divorced cheater.

Don't negotiate her being faithful, don't offer up timelines.


----------



## Falene

Chris,

It is your right to demand she does not go on that weekend trip or have any more contact with the man she kissed. Period.

Trust me on this one...you do not want to be in marriage, no matter what, that will fall apart because you do not want your wife on an adult weekend with the man she kissed.

In addition, I am concerned that your wife "needing more time" is really her needing more time with the OM. Please keep a good eye on this. I will be very surprised if she doesn't try to contact him/see him.

You have a ton of reading to do here, see the sticky posts in this forum. You need to pay special attention to the "no contact" section.

Her word is not enough. I would personally let everyone I could know but you will find some don't agree. I am a firm believer that we grownups should act like grownups and be held accountable for our actions even if that takes someone else making it happen.

Good luck Chris!


----------



## Shaggy

Oh, and there is no way she should be going there without you. It's one big hookup weekend fueled by booze. You already know the OM is going to be there.


----------



## the guy

Chris you know were I stand with protecting your marriage and the fact that you do not have to tolorate her crap.

So in addition to what I posted earier, I want to add that you have to show your wife that you are a confident man and can and will let her go. 

There is a perception that she needs to see in you that her next disicion she makes will be the one that breaks the marriage apart. 
once you get her to start to think twice in what she is about to lose versue her current mind set of " good old Chris will always be around" then there is a shift in power were she is chasing you and the marriage.

Get it?

You need to have an ego and action that tells her you are gone for good and until she comes home and cancels the Bultin thing then she is history and you will find some one else that will appreciate your protection.

Stop letting her "cake eat" I have a feeling now that she is no longer home she can do what she wants and still counts on you for finacial support and a baby sitter. It might be time to cut her off!

I understand you love her but no matter how hard it is you have to show her consequences or she will continue and she will go to the adult party and sleep with her boyfriend. Lets face it she is having an affair and she has yet to see any consequences for it so she continues.

You can't nice your way out of this, its the tough love approach that will get you thru...with or with out her.

Again you can't control her but you can be calm and firm with your boundries and the consequences for when they are crossed. In the end it will be up to her to respect you and your boundries. Just like it is up to you to tolorate being a doormat or leting her go for good.


----------



## Chris22

Yeah a lot of what you guys have said is what I feel about the situation.

Its probably important to note that although she clearly is in an inappropriate affair with this guy, all she has done physically is kiss. The evidence supports this, this is the only thing I actually believe in the whole situation. Mentally however I fear this has gone quite far. The content of the text supports this.

Thanks for the support guys, I really do appreciate it a lot

I know I must be strong through this... I will however wait until tuesday to talk to her about this. We are off on a family day out on monday, just the three of us. We are heading to an animal park not far from home, its something we always wanted to do as a family when times were better... For our daughters sake and the memories I will not risk screwing up what will at least be a fairly pleasant atmosphere for my daughter before this time. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris989

I am sorry but it seems she is using your love and trust for her own ends.

She has the right to go to this weekend in any context, but she does NOT have the right to be with you, or remain in the marriage.

Please, do not make the mistake I did: tell her "no". Tell her your marriage counts for something. Tell her you love her and that you don't want her to go.

Good luck. Be strong and remember: YOU are trying to keep your marriage. That is for the both of you, not just you.


----------



## Falene

The kiss is far enough. The next "step" will be even less pleasant for you.

So this guy knows she is married, is in the outer circle of your friends and thinks his behavior is just fine huh?

This is a crucial moment in your relationship. I don't mean this in a harsh way at all Chris, but you need to step up or you are going to get stepped on.

Please be true to yourself and take care.


----------



## TDSC60

IF she says she wants to work on the marriage, and has sworn no contact with the guy she kissed and was texting, then obviously she cannot go on the weekend. He will be there. She cannot avoid contact with him, so she cannot go.

If she says she wants to work on the marriage but says she is going anyway - you have your answer and divorce should come quickly.


----------



## the guy

need more time = more time with boyfriend

need more space= figure out if boyfriend wants me (don't be second choice)

just a kiss= oral sex at the very least, intercourse at the most.

Starts fights = a chance to get away for more time with OM

rewrites marriage history= less guilt for cheating

blameshifting= makes you do all the work in the marriage while she screws around


----------



## seasalt

Tell her that if she's your wife she has to act like it. Explain that you can work out your differences and hurts but not if she is willing to add to them by going away without you.

If after telling her this she goes it means she doesn't want to be your wife. If she goes and comes back you won't ever believe she didn't cheat while there.


----------



## arbitrator

Falene said:


> The kiss is far enough. The next "step" will be even less pleasant for you.
> 
> So this guy knows she is married, is in the outer circle of your friends and thinks his behavior is just fine huh?
> 
> This is a crucial moment in your relationship. I don't mean this in a harsh way at all Chris, but you need to step up or you are going to get stepped on.
> 
> Please be true to yourself and take care.


Chris:
You deserve far better! Get her out of your house and head to the county courthouse to file for divorce from her post haste!


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Tell her the time is now to either choose you or the other guy. If you're the choice then clearly she cannot take off for the weekend to spend time with this OM.


----------



## the guy

TDSC60 said:


> IF she says she wants to work on the marriage, and has sworn no contact with the guy she kissed and was texting, then obviously she cannot go on the weekend. He will be there. She cannot avoid contact with him, so she cannot go.
> 
> If she says she wants to work on the marriage but says she is going anyway - you have your answer and divorce should come quickly.


Its really easy for the wayward to give us lip service and tell us what we want to hear. But when it comes time to take action against the word thay say they will fail.

When she finds out you don't want her to go you will get the " if you want this marriage to work you will let me go" [in a witchy voice]
What this realy means is "if you want this marriage to work you will let me screw by boyfriend"


----------



## badbane

Your wife had every intention of hooking up with this guy. Why are you are letting her dictate how she comes back. Yes setting a date and time to decide is a good thing. But it gives this guy all this time to work on your wife. You need to up the pressure a lot. 
They are living in a fantasy world and the longer she is in it, the harder it is to break out. 
The only way to destroy this fantasy is with reality. 
You should be singing like a canary right now. You should write out a list of things that have to be met in order for you to take your wife back. 
Then she needs to choose right then in the moment. If she chooses him kick her out keep your daughter don't let your daughter stay with that cheater. Go ahead and decide on a lawyer. It is time to stop being a MR Nice guy and start being alpha male again.


----------



## Chris22

Thanks guys.... the information is hard to hear, but hear it I must.

Clearly I need to talk to her about this, and I need to tell her how I feel in no uncertain terms. The next move will be hers.

For those of you interested, I will keep the updates coming as and when they happen.

Thanks.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Chris22 said:


> Thanks guys.... the information is hard to hear, but hear it I must.
> 
> Clearly I need to talk to her about this, and I need to tell her how I feel in no uncertain terms. The next move will be hers.
> 
> For those of you interested, I will keep the updates coming as and when they happen.
> 
> Thanks.


I'm sorry you have to hear these things but you need to make it cut and dry. She either wants to work on the marriage or she doesn't. There also needs to be an answer now and not when she feels like it. If she decides going to this weekend is more important you have your answer.


----------



## the guy

Just remember to be calm and firm and do not let your emotions get awy from you. The more indiferent you act the scarier you are...especially if you are typically emotional and get load.

Point is be the person you usaully aren't show her you are not the same man that she used to push around. A behavior in you that will make her think "who is this guy" and "something is really wrong with him"


----------



## the guy

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> I'm sorry you have to hear these things but you need to make it cut and dry. She either wants to work on the marriage or she doesn't. There also needs to be an answer now and not when she feels like it. If she decides going to this weekend is more important you have your answer.


:iagree:

Time is up screw that that 2 month time frame


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

the guy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Time is up screw that that 2 month time frame


I swear I'm not trying to be funny but in her head it's almost like let me go screw this guy. Depending on how I feel after that will determine what happens with the marriage. Forget that nonsense.


----------



## Chris22

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> I'm sorry you have to hear these things but you need to make it cut and dry. She either wants to work on the marriage or she doesn't. There also needs to be an answer now and not when she feels like it. If she decides going to this weekend is more important you have your answer.





the guy said:


> Just remember to be calm and firm and do not let your emotions get awy from you. The more indiferent you act the scarier you are...especially if you are typically emotional and get load.
> 
> Point is be the person you usaully aren't show her you are not the same man that she used to push around. A behavior in you that will make her think "who is this guy" and "something is really wrong with him"


Understood, I have already done this to an extent, but i know I held back and let my emotions get in the way somewhat. after the confrontation i gave her i sat down and told her not to beat herself up about it and that she didn't need to keep saying sorry.... what the hell was I doing?

Next time I will be stronger

I'm a soldier for god's sake, I don't have trouble being honest and strong in my job, guess relationships really do change the way you act


----------



## TRy

Chris22 said:


> I'm scared that if I ask her not to go this will push her away and make me out to be the bad paranoid guy in front of all my wifes friends and family, and that if I head down there myself this will yield the same result. Also if I have to intervene myself is there any point in trying to stop her anyway? As I feel that the decision has to come from her and not me.


 Why should the decision come from her? She is lost in an affair fog, why are you letting her be your guide?

I have read all of your posts. Just going by what you know to be true, you know that your wife is cheating on you. You do not need to convince anyone else of what you know to be true to act. She is forgetting her marraige vows to you, so you are no longer bound by your promise to give her a month. When you gave her that month it was with the reasonable expectation that she would end contact with the other man (OM). You know that she is not honoring that commitment. She is not playing by the normal rules of marriage, so stop playing by her rules. Also, remember she originally only wanted a week apart, she changed her mind so can you. 

Your best chance to save your marraige is to be willing to end it now. You must shake her out of the fog. Tell her that you have a right to change your mind like she did and that you are tired of waiting for her to remember that she is your wife. That since she is shopping her options, you would like to do so also, but unlike her you do not believe that you should do that while married. Tell her that she must move back in today and agree to follow normal marriage boundaries and agree to full transparency (all passwords etc.) or you will file for divorce immediately. When she says that she does not like you pressuring her, tell her that marraige is not about only what she wants, that your wants matter too. Tell her that in marriage that your want to have her act like your wife is greater than her want to act like she is single. Tell her that there is nothing more to discuss. A decision by her not to move immediately back home with you will be treated by you as a decision by her not to save the marraige and you will file for divorce and find someone that wants to be your wife.

Again stop playing by her rules. It is a game that you cannot win and that puts the OM on better footing than you even though you are her husband. By changing the rules back to what is normal to expect in a marraige, you may not win, but the odds are better. You must be willing to take a stand now. What you are doing now is not working. Every day that you continue, your odds only get worse.


----------



## TDSC60

If she goes on this weekend with all the toxic friends, you should divorce her for disrespecting you and the marriage. Do not listen to any excuses!!!!! She will come up with a ton of reason why she "has no choice". 
She promised her friends. 
She doesn't wants to disappoint anyone. 
All her friends will be there. 
She will be so busy that she wouldn't have time to talk to OM.
She will loose her deposit and/or still have to pay her share.

No excuses Chris.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

She moved out what a month ago? She has had plenty of time. She makes a choice and gets you out of this limbo now.


----------



## the guy

Chris this about you and your self respect, you can't control her so no matter the out come you can walk away with your head held high. This could be a blessing indisguis. If she walks.

I'm just saying I see no remorse, I mean she should be begging to come back home instead of staying at her mothers.

Just be prepared when Monday comes around, that is when you will get the begging, but until then, her weekend maybe more important then her marriage, and I hope I'm wrong.

If I'm not wrong then don't go with her, but pack the rest of her stuff up and drop it off at her mothers.

A small part of me wants you to go so you can penis block the OM.

But really how much fun could you have when your with someone that doesn't want you there.


----------



## the guy

I'd play it like this;

"i'm going with you this weekend" [her] no I don't want you to go,it will be just us girls"

"I'm not going to share you with OM so if you want this already fragile marriage then you will do what it take to rebuild it" [her] I do want my marriage and it will be better if I can get awy for the weekend.

"it will not be better b/c I will be moving on with out you"


----------



## costa200

> I'm scared that if I ask her not to go this will push her away and make me out to be the bad paranoid guy in front of all my wifes friends and family,


Holy crap man... You're scared? SHE "KISSED" ANOTHER GUY (hmmm yeah, kiss... yeah... get tested for STDs) and YOU are scared? WTF man... 

You're a man, you do what you need to do and if someone gets in the way you run over the unfortunate. Who gives a damn about what other guy's wifes think? Are you trying to get a nice guy award or do you want to be happy?


----------



## lovelygirl

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> I swear I'm not trying to be funny but in her head it's almost like let me go screw this guy. Depending on how I feel after that will determine what happens with the marriage. Forget that nonsense.


x100 !!

Also, not only shouldn't she go away this weekend but she also should give up drunken GNOs.
She showed she can't be trusted without you there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I don't believe she stopped at kissing. Not for one second. And I agree that she is his date for the weekend. I believe she is specifically going to this place to hook up with him and she'll resist any attempt to stop her. She'll call you controlling and insecure. She'll say they're just friends. She'll say anything to get you to let her go unsupervised.


----------



## Acabado

Tell her she's free to go, but is she choose it don't bother to come back, you'll send her stuff where she tells. That clear. No time, no space.
Tell her you love her to pieces, the last thing you want now is divorcing her but sharing her won't enter in your mind *ever*. Enough is enough. She has to decide NOW. Too much have happened already. Tell your conditions:
NC letter/text to the POS. Total transparence for no own. Full disclosure, to your satisfaction. Making amends. Discusing boundaires for now on. Whatever more you need (IC?, MC?, books?).

Taylor the 180 till the date or she refuses.


----------



## Chris22

Thanks for replying.

I went round to see her tonight, we both tucked my daughter in and said goodnight to her.

My wife seemed much happier (because she is happier with our situation, or just happy because she thinks she has gotten away with it I don't know)

When I eventually came to leave, she gave me a kiss... something she hasn't done in a month... don't know if this changes anything. but it was nice even though I know its not an answer to any of our problems.

Is it worth the risk of trying to get hold of her phone so I can access her facebook? Although she told me she was going to stop messaging him I have no reason at all to believe her.

Thought that it might be a good idea to download a keylogger onto my own PC and that next time she comes round try and get her to go on facebook (without making my plan blatantly obvious)


----------



## Machiavelli

She's playing you. WW's SOP. Here's the bottom line: your wife does not have sexual attraction to you. Neuroplasticity is a fancy term meaning that your wife has her brain rewiring to respond to OM. She gets a crack-like buzz from communicating with and "kissing" (as they call it) him. It's an automatic distancing mechanism related to a woman's limbic brain. Your only chance to break her out of this spiral is to cave man her limbic system. Go Alpha. Do you know what that is?

Read this: download the book No More Mr. Nice Guy.

When you don't put her in her place and "be controlling," she loses respect for you. You're not strong enough to be her man. You're betaized so she's looking for alpha. It's the female nature.

Read this: Roissy. He explains the true female nature. Crass, offensive, and so very truthful.

Lastly, read this blog and book to understand how to maintain an acceptable level of Alpha to keep up attraction in an LTR. You'll need this information to learn handle your next wife.


----------



## Kasler

^ You're the most fervent believer of that stuff I've seen here. 

I personally don't agree with all that alpha beta stuff to be honest

Seriously, what happened that made you take up that mantra?


----------



## Machiavelli

Kasler said:


> ^ You're the most fervent believer of that stuff I've seen here.
> 
> I personally don't agree with all that alpha beta stuff to be honest
> 
> Seriously, what happened that made you take up that mantra?


55 years of watching it work. I finally quit discounting what my own eyes were showing me.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Kasler said:


> ^ You're the most fervent believer of that stuff I've seen here.
> 
> I personally don't agree with all that alpha beta stuff to be honest
> 
> Seriously, what happened that made you take up that mantra?


Ignore it at your own risk.


----------



## Kasler

^ I just find it entirely too ridged, cynical, and subjective. Perhaps its because I've seen far too many instances and examples of it being contradicted.


----------



## Machiavelli

Kasler said:


> ^ I just find it entirely too ridged, cynical, and subjective. Perhaps its because I've seen far too many instances and examples of it being contradicted.


YMMV, and there is always the exception that proves the rule, but there are eternal truths to female sexual response across cultures and time. Hardwired.


----------



## martyc47

Kasler said:


> ^ You're the most fervent believer of that stuff I've seen here.
> 
> I personally don't agree with all that alpha beta stuff to be honest
> 
> Seriously, what happened that made you take up that mantra?


That's interesting. I had absorbed some of the "alpha beta stuff" prior to coming here, usually with a skeptical mind.

This place, in addition to other experiences and observations, has only reinforced and endorsed most of the "alpha beta stuff." While only a couple posters really mention it all that much, it's obvious to me a lot of the MMSL and roissy/CH stuff is spot on.


----------



## Shaggy

She is feeling good because you're letting her do what she wants with him and she is planning a party weekend away with him. she is getting excited and feeling sexual at the chance to be with him.

Stop it dead it it's tracks.


----------



## Entropy3000

Chris22 said:


> Yeah a lot of what you guys have said is what I feel about the situation.
> 
> Its probably important to note that although she clearly is in an inappropriate affair with this guy, all she has done physically is kiss. The evidence supports this, this is the only thing I actually believe in the whole situation. Mentally however I fear this has gone quite far. The content of the text supports this.
> 
> Thanks for the support guys, I really do appreciate it a lot
> 
> I know I must be strong through this... I will however wait until tuesday to talk to her about this. We are off on a family day out on monday, just the three of us. We are heading to an animal park not far from home, its something we always wanted to do as a family when times were better... For our daughters sake and the memories I will not risk screwing up what will at least be a fairly pleasant atmosphere for my daughter before this time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Instigation, Isolation and Escalation.

Look dude, she is going to be banged upside down and backwards repeatedly over this trip. Possibly doing things she has never done with you. We know that and you should know that. Most of us believe she has been in full PA mode but in the unlikely chance she has not yet she will on the trip. When are you going to get mad?

Sorry of this sounds crude but stop it. What is your boundary? Your deal breaker. You say there is no extreme PA going on. What the heck kinda boundary is that? You say that becuase you know that she is in a PA now.

So are you serious? 

What has pushed her away is your inability to be the man. To standup to her. To show that you care enough to keep her.

Tell her she needs to move back home now that she not go on the her getaway with the OM. 

Have you filed yet? You need to.


----------



## Entropy3000

Kasler said:


> ^ I just find it entirely too ridged, cynical, and subjective. Perhaps its because I've seen far too many instances and examples of it being contradicted.


You have to have an open mind. The ability to visualize relationships. So things from different perspectives. Most folks like life with tunnel vision. If they do not see something so they deny its existence.

Seemingly contradictory ideas can co-exist and actually support each other in the universe we call reality.

You have to see things in their shades of gray. Their continuum. 

You can alos consider that many folks posess some amount of dominance and submissiveness.

I happen to believe that being too much alpha or too much beta is very weak. To men the man that cares enough to run into that buring building to save that child is the epitome of what a real man is.

They have to be Beta enough to put the child above their own safety yet Alpha enough to actually run into that building and get that child out alive.

But I do not think these things can be modled as a line or even a plane. They are at least three dimensional but probably more.

But what we cannot envison we call BS. Not everything in the universe can be seen by all. Some folks have to be ready to see. Some never will. Yet I know that there is so much to be discovered.

That all said. The biggest issue seems to come down to folks having respect for themselves.


----------



## Entropy3000

Chris22 said:


> Thanks for replying.
> 
> I went round to see her tonight, we both tucked my daughter in and said goodnight to her.
> 
> My wife seemed much happier (because she is happier with our situation, or just happy because she thinks she has gotten away with it I don't know)
> 
> When I eventually came to leave, she gave me a kiss... something she hasn't done in a month... don't know if this changes anything. but it was nice even though I know its not an answer to any of our problems.
> 
> Is it worth the risk of trying to get hold of her phone so I can access her facebook? Although she told me she was going to stop messaging him I have no reason at all to believe her.
> 
> Thought that it might be a good idea to download a keylogger onto my own PC and that next time she comes round try and get her to go on facebook (without making my plan blatantly obvious)


Cake eating. She is excited over her upcoming weekend with her other man. She has you to support her and your daughter and the OM to provide her with the passion. She is going to be pounded this weekend. You should be the one pounding her. 

Too bad you will not fight for her. Your window of doing anything constructive is closing rapidly. Your ability to matter is dwindling.


----------



## MattMatt

> adult weekend at butlins


And for those folks who don't know of Butlins, this is a very big red flag.

File for divorce, file for custody, get STD/HIV tests done ASAP. By the way, there have been cases of parents accidentally passing STDs on to their children through non-sexual contact, so ordering STD/HIV tests on your daughter would be a wise precaution.


----------



## Chris22

Just to make things even more confusing, one of her brothers now has a newborn son, his girlfriend has just gave birth this morning.

Obviously she is very exited about this and its what she's going to be occupied with for a while. And quite rightly so, She hasn't completely cut me out though, she's asked if I want to shopping for some clothes for the lad.

Its quite hard for me as I was very close to all of her brothers... and I was very looking forward to meeting my new nephew when he was born, and now I don't know if I will get that opportunity.


----------



## Baffled01

TDSC60 said:


> IF she says she wants to work on the marriage, and has sworn no contact with the guy she kissed and was texting, then obviously she cannot go on the weekend. He will be there. She cannot avoid contact with him, so she cannot go.
> 
> If she says she wants to work on the marriage but says she is going anyway - you have your answer and divorce should come quickly.


Totally agree here. If she is serious about saving the marriage the 'outing' is out of the question. And if she were serious she really wouldn't want to go. She is cake eating. If she goes, file for divorce-- immediately. Tell her this up front and be prepared to go through with it.


----------



## TDSC60

Machiavelli said:


> 55 years of watching it work. I finally quit discounting what my own eyes were showing me.


I thought that my "Alpha" was being expressed a little too much. I thought my wife would be more loving if I was a little more "Beta". Having read a lot on the subject, I decided to try it.

So I followed some advice about showing my "feminine" side. Being more emotional around her. Trying to talk to her about what she was "feeling" when it seemed she was upset. Not arguing with her (even when I disagreed).

After about 6 weeks of this she came to me and asked "What is wrong with you? Why are you acting this way?" I told her what I was doing and that I was doing it for "us".

She said "This is not the man I married! It is not attractive. Stop it."

So - yeah - I saw it first hand. Alpha all the way now. 

Somethings are simply an instinct that has been instilled by evolution. It may not be logical, it can not be explained or quantified - it just IS.


----------



## Entropy3000

Chris22 said:


> Just to make things even more confusing, one of her brothers now has a newborn son, his girlfriend has just gave birth this morning.
> 
> Obviously she is very exited about this and its what she's going to be occupied with for a while. And quite rightly so, She hasn't completely cut me out though, she's asked if I want to shopping for some clothes for the lad.
> 
> Its quite hard for me as I was very close to all of her brothers... and I was very looking forward to meeting my new nephew when he was born, and now I don't know if I will get that opportunity.


Chris, so this is all very sweet and all ... but what is your question? I think you have made it clear that you will not take a stand here but are dwelling on things instead.

Tell her she needs to move home with your child so you can work on the marriage. No more drunken trips away. If she must go, you go with ther. What is so complicated about this?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Entropy3000 said:


> Look dude, she is going to be banged upside down and backwards repeatedly over this trip. Possibly doing things she has never done with you.




Chris, this should be your response because Entropy3000 is spot on.

Quit being so fvcking nice and fight for your marriage.


----------



## Maricha75

Chris, assuming you want to make your marriage work, she needs to come home NOW, not in a few weeks, NOW. If she doesn't, then she gets the consequences, which means you file for divorce. She will likely ask you why you are filing. And you tell her....it's because SHE obviously doesn't want to be married to you. Stop letting her walk all over you.

MattMatt clarified what this weekend will be like (as if we hadn't already guessed). You know that's what she's going to be doing. We know that's what she will be doing. SHE knows that's what she will be doing. Stand up to your wife. Stand up for your marriage. If she goes on this trip, YOU go as well. If she actually values the marriage (which, sadly doesn't seem to be the case now), she will NOT go to this birthday bash. Rather, she will stay home, with you. 

Ultimately, the decision is yours. But right now, you are doing nothing. You are allowing her to dictate everything. You are being indecisive...which, in my opinion, is an unattractive quality.


----------



## Shaggy

Chris you are kind, understanding, and gentle -

stop it. There is a time for that, but it isn't when your wife has a party weekend as the 4 person in a pair of couples.

Why is she going alone and without you? What if you just announced you are coming too?


----------



## snap

Shaggy said:


> What if you just announced you are coming too?


Actually do that! You'll hear a hundred creative excuses as to why you absolutely can't attend.


----------



## Chris22

That's basically the ultimatum I will give her," go to butlins = divorce. You want to be with me? Then we both go or not at all"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I wouldn't put it as a ultimatum. That means you really are giving her the power to choose.

Instead I would tell her you are going and let her try to tell you not to. Just ignore all her reasons, just say "it does sound like fun for couples, so I'm going."

If she insists that she won't let you go - then call her controlling!

If she pushes it, then simply inform her - again not threaten or debate- but inform her - "Ok, I see your clearly choosing to go without me, I guess having your husband there for a party weekend would cramp you style and happiness. Got it. Btw, I want to let you know, I'm deciding to move ahead with D. It's clear that you're not wanting me in your life beyond custody of our child, but you don't want me either as a husband or a social partner. So let's just put the cards on the table and stop wasting each others time. I was hoping you'd want to stay in the marriage, but you don't get everything you wish for."


----------



## StrangerThanFiction

There is an article on married man's sex life I found very illuminating and is relevant to your situation.

Search Results vegas | Married Man Sex Life

You can't handcuff her to your house and make demands. She can choose to divorce you today if she feels like it. However, you can tell her that to you, this is a boundary that can not be crossed in your marriage, one that you're not OK with. You can't make her not go. But you can be very clear that if she chooses to forge ahead with this plan, that "she should be under no illusion that things will be the same between you when she comes back." It's not a threat or an ultimatum, its just a simple reality that you're likely not going to feel the same about her when she returns.


----------



## aug

Allow me to present another perspective.


You are 22 years old. Your wife is 21. You have a 2 year old daughter.

You are in the British army. (Finished in December?)

You are not with her all the time. You probably will get called away at any time. You cant monitor every moment of her life. If she want to cheat, she will.

She has now shown that she's capable of drifting to another man. If she cant be faithful now with the two of two being recently married and having a toddler, then it will be extremely tough for you and the marriage.

She's showing you some loving now because in her mind she has placated you. She's going to go. Or, she's currently seeing/talking to the other man and have taken this underground. Or, maybe, she really is a faithful person (this will take some convincing)?


----------



## Machiavelli

MattMatt said:


> And for those folks who don't know of Butlins, this is a very big red flag.


Never heard of the operation. No surprise since I haven't been to the UK in 30 years. Googled this string: butlins adult weekend shagged. Among other sites, it brought me back to old threads right here on TAM. Butlin's is what you could classify as a proven threat.


----------



## Machiavelli

Chris22 said:


> Just to make things even more confusing, one of her brothers now has a newborn son, his girlfriend has just gave birth this morning.
> 
> Obviously she is very exited about this and its what she's going to be occupied with for a while. And quite rightly so, She hasn't completely cut me out though, she's asked if I want to shopping for some clothes for the lad.
> 
> Its quite hard for me as I was very close to all of her brothers... and I was very looking forward to meeting my new nephew when he was born, and now I don't know if I will get that opportunity.


That's almost as exciting as a girl going to a wedding. Where is your wife going to be in her cycle on this trip? Ovulating?


----------



## Complexity

Chris22 said:


> That's basically the ultimatum I will give her," go to butlins = divorce. You want to be with me? Then we both go or not at all"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


lol she's going to butlins? that's the worst place ever, it's literally chav heaven.


----------



## Machiavelli

TDSC60 said:


> Somethings are simply an instinct that has been instilled by evolution. It may not be logical, it can not be explained or quantified - it just IS.


Unfortunately, modern society is all about denying the immutable natural order of things.


----------



## Chris22

Again, I appreciate the replies.

I will take heed of the advice you have given me and tell her how it is.

However, in the unlikely event that she does actually give me some respect and stay home with me then where do I go from there? Keep the dominant attitude until such a time that I feel I can trust her again?

I guess all I can really do is try building up the trust with her from scratch, it might not work but Ill just grab a set and do my best.

Whatever happens, as a result of the wealth of knowledge and advice I have received on this forum, ill be a stronger man in future.

Win or lose, you all have my gratitude. Thankyou.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

If she does stay home then have a long talk about your boundries for the marriage and the consequences when those boundries are crossed.

Things like transparentcy and IC/MC need to be addressed, things she can do to affair proof her marriage.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Chris22 said:


> Again, I appreciate the replies.
> 
> I will take heed of the advice you have given me and tell her how it is.
> 
> However, in the unlikely event that she does actually give me some respect and stay home with me then where do I go from there? Keep the dominant attitude until such a time that I feel I can trust her again?
> 
> I guess all I can really do is try building up the trust with her from scratch, it might not work but Ill just grab a set and do my best.
> 
> Whatever happens, as a result of the wealth of knowledge and advice I have received on this forum, ill be a stronger man in future.
> 
> Win or lose, you all have my gratitude. Thankyou.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't start worrying about what comes next. You're on step one and worrying about step 20. For how to proceed from here, read Married Man Sex Life and start learning about female behavior and attraction.


----------



## Chris22

True about the worrying.

I will read up after I have said my piece. Ta.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Your not saying your peace, your telling her how it is and that the new Chris22 will no longer share his wife.


----------



## Entropy3000

Chris22 said:


> Again, I appreciate the replies.
> 
> I will take heed of the advice you have given me and tell her how it is.
> 
> However, in the unlikely event that she does actually give me some respect and stay home with me then where do I go from there? Keep the dominant attitude until such a time that I feel I can trust her again?
> 
> I guess all I can really do is try building up the trust with her from scratch, it might not work but Ill just grab a set and do my best.
> 
> Whatever happens, as a result of the wealth of knowledge and advice I have received on this forum, ill be a stronger man in future.
> 
> Win or lose, you all have my gratitude. Thankyou.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have to change who you are and what your new marriage needs to be. It is not something you fix and then ... trust. This is a life style change. After a few years you may be able to trust more. But for sure it should be then trust but verify.

If you always do what you do you will always get what you get.

It is like people going on a crash diet and then gaining it all back. You have to change yourself to be a more confident man. Someone who respects himself and demands respect from others.


----------



## TDSC60

Machiavelli said:


> Unfortunately, modern society is all about denying the immutable natural order of things.


Society does not understand that humans are animals. All animals have certain primal instincts. Sometimes they can be trained to control the instinct, but they are still there and you never know what the trigger is until you are bitten. (Almost said in the azz).


----------



## Machiavelli

Entropy3000 said:


> ...This is a life style change. ...If you always do what you do you will always get what you get...You have to change yourself to be a more confident man. Soemone who respects himself and demands respect from others.


This.:iagree:

Roissy, MMSL, NMMNG. Memorize that stuff and live by it. It becomes second nature.


----------



## Chris22

I wasn't going to say anything to her till tuesday... But we were planning to go and do something together tonight, but she's said she's too tired and just wants to go to bed. She said this at 10pm. I suggested we do something tomorrow instead and she said she doesn't know if she's going to be busy or not. So I told her to just commit to me and that way you won't be busy, she replied by saying she didn't want to. I got quite angry and upset when she said this.

We have had a really nice day, and I did get to see my nephew but it feels like she has ruined it all now, and I've made it worse still by getting upset when she told me that she didn't want to do anything. 

I feel maybe I should confront her and tell her that I'm thinking of divorce now? I don't want to ruin our family trip out on monday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris22

I'm trying to do what's best for my child. There is a line between giving me advice and being insulting.

I thank you for that, but I won't let it get to me as I don't know you and you are entitle to voice your opinion, Just as I'm voicing mine in the hopes of getting support.

As for my job, don't criticise it, you have no right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

EDIT** seems the previous previous poster removed his comment, believe it went something like "you are completely soft, let the woman go find a real man, you call yourself a soldier? you have no life experience, grow up"

Guess he didn't like my comeback?


----------



## MattMatt

My youngest brother used to work at Butlins. 

A booze and drug filled meat market is how he described it. For staff and the guests on the 'adult' weekends. Not good.


----------



## Entropy3000

Chris22 said:


> *I wasn't going to say anything to her till tuesday...* But we were planning to go and do something together tonight, but she's said she's too tired and just wants to go to bed. She said this at 10pm. I suggested we do something tomorrow instead and she said she doesn't know if she's going to be busy or not. So I told her to just commit to me and that way you won't be busy, she replied by saying she didn't want to. I got quite angry and upset when she said this.
> 
> We have had a really nice day, and I did get to see my nephew but it feels like she has ruined it all now, and I've made it worse still by getting upset when she told me that she didn't want to do anything.
> 
> I feel maybe I should confront her and tell her that I'm thinking of divorce now? I don't want to ruin our family trip out on monday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:slap:


----------



## Chris22

Done. Its over. **** her, I'm worth more than that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Chris22 said:


> Done. Its over. **** her, I'm worth more than that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are. 

We'll be here for you.

I know the Royal Marines have Welfare Officers, so presume the Army has something similar?

Tell your C.O. What is happening.


----------



## jfv

That's right you are. Now that you truly believe it you will begin to behave in such a manner that others won't have a choice but to believe it as well.


----------



## Machiavelli

Chris22 said:


> Done. Its over. **** her, I'm worth more than that.


I commend you on a decisive and self empowering conclusion to your wife's cheating. Now, don't back down. And start reading those books and websites.


----------



## anonim

Chris22 said:


> Done. Its over. **** her, I'm worth more than that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


finally. what made the change?


----------



## happyman64

Chris

Stand up or yourself. Your wife is not mother material even though he is a mother.

And sadly, she is not wife material even though she is a wife.

You do what is best for you.

HM64


----------



## Chris22

I have, I told her last night we needed to talk. Had a huge argument, she is adamant that she is going on the weekend away no matter what. So I told her ill be filing for divorce. She came out with the usual "I need more time, if you don't want a divorce then don't divorce me, you're the one who's going to end this marriage"
Told her this marriage is obviously already over if you don't know if you want to be with me, work on the relationship or even love me. Don't know how she can't understand that what she's doing isn't fair on me at all.

I went round today also to collect some things and talk about arrangements for our daughter, that turned into an argument with me following her down the street trying to get her to understand that I'm serious. Shameful, but if she chooses to ignore me then fine. 

The woman is an absolute poison at the moment, completely ruins what would be an otherwise great day.

I need to cease all non-daughter related contact with her, fast.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Chris22 said:


> I went round today also to collect some things and talk about arrangements for our daughter, that turned into an argument with me chasing her down the street trying to get her to understand that I'm serious.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's running away from you and the marriage. 

DON'T EVER CHASE AFTER HER AGAIN.


----------



## Chris22

I don't intend to, it made me feel small. 

She was wearing a skimpy outfit though, is it odd that I still find her incredibly attractive?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

Chris22 said:


> I went round today also to collect some things and talk about arrangements for our daughter, that turned into an argument with me following her down the street trying to get her to understand that I'm serious. Shameful, but if she chooses to ignore me then fine.


 Stop trying to get her to understand that you are serious. This shows her that you are not doing it for you but for her. She will only take you seriously when you stop caring about what she thinks and you start to live your life based on respect for yourself.

1) Look up the 180 and start to live it.
2) Stop trying to tell her that you are divorcing her if she does not change and file for divorce ASAP. The only conversations that you should be havinng are about your daughter and how to divide your assets in the divorce. 
3) Stop looking at her as attractive and see her for who she really is. You need to detach from her. Help yourself detach by noticing in your mind all of her faults both physically and mentally (she is doing this to you BTW).
4) Remember that you cannot have a marraige with only one person in it. Your wife is not in this marraige and shows no willingness to get back in. Let her go.


----------



## Chris22

Wise words, I tried the 180 about 3 weeks ago for a week.. And it worked. I did of course cave in the end which now I think of it noticeably made things worse, shortly after that was when I made my first post on this forum.

Believe me guys, I intend to go through with all of this and move on from her, the more I post on here and talk to my friends the stronger I feel. I haven't been on a decent night out in ages either, that will be the next step. 

When I'm away from her I feel better, when I'm closer I feel worse. 

Guess I should act on what makes me feel better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kasler

This. 

The fact that she rather have a fun vacation then work on her crumbling marriage clearly shows what her thoughts and feelings on the matter are. 

Also, needs more time? Let me get this straight, shes saying she needs more time while going on a trip to have fun with another man? 

Really? Bullsh!t. Total Bullsh!t when waywards say crap like that. She just wants to catch her date with the OM.

Very common though. 

"I need more time" almost always equals "I want more time with the OM"

Time to file. So when she comes back from her vacation have her ass served.

Stay strong man, its gonna be rough.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Chris, my ex is a Brit by birth (lived there until she was 6 months old) and I was shocked when we visited there in 1994 how many couples were 'shacking up' instead of marrying. You and your wife are quite young -- too young if you ask me to be married. If things doesn't work out (a strong possibility) you might want to consider not getting married again until you're much older.


----------



## Chris22

Kasler said:


> This.
> 
> The fact that she rather have a fun vacation then work on her crumbling marriage clearly shows what her thoughts and feelings on the matter are.
> 
> Also, needs more time? Let me get this straight, shes saying she needs more time while going on a trip to have fun with another man?
> 
> Really? Bullsh!t. Total Bullsh!t when waywards say crap like that. She just wants to catch her date with the OM.
> 
> Very common though.
> 
> "I need more time" almost always equals "I want more time with the OM"
> 
> Time to file. So when she comes back from her vacation have her ass served.
> 
> Stay strong man, its gonna be rough.


Pretty much how I have felt today, I shed no tears, I felt little anger, I was just completely fed up with the way she's treating me.

You're right, that little vacation means more than our marriage? Screw you then! 

I can take solace in the fact that I KNOW that the OM is an ass. He's popular and well liked but treats women like ****. Sex then bin. It will be no different for her.

She will see that she lost me, a guy that was willing to give everything he had to making a good life for himself, his wife and his daughter.

And if she's happy? Then whatever I was better off without her anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris22

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Chris, my ex is a Brit by birth (lived there until she was 6 months old) and I was shocked when we visited there in 1994 how many couples were 'shacking up' instead of marrying. You and your wife are quite young -- too young if you ask me to be married. If things doesn't work out (a strong possibility) you might want to consider not getting married again until you're much older.


The thought has crossed my mind. It will take a long time for me to trust someone that much again anyway.

We had added pressures on us to get married, no house with a baby on the way, getting married meant a house would be provided by the army. No surprise the british army has by far the highest divorce rate in the country. 

I would be lying if I said that was my primary reason for marriage though, I did love her completely.

Next time around, ill be sure I fully know the person who I'm marrying, I obviously didn't know her as well as I thought if I didn't know she was capable of such coldness and cruelty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

Expose her the very moment she get to road (to OM).


----------



## Chris22

Acabado said:


> Expose her the very moment she get to road (to OM).


Sorry didn't quite get that, What do you mean? Expose her to who? and when?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Chris22 said:


> I don't intend to, it made me feel small.
> 
> She was wearing a skimpy outfit though, is it odd that I still find her incredibly attractive?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't you find it odd that she is a married woman and mother that is wearing skimpy outfits to attract other men???

She is not living with you correct???

Get out of the fog my man.


----------



## Chris22

She's living with her mother, 2 streets away. She has our daughter with her. The guy she is/was seeing/texting doesn't live in this town. Its 24 degrees out hence the skimpy outfit.

she has been inappropriate, but I don't think anything suspicious is going on currently.

She's an awful liar, and its a small town, eyes everywhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Chris22 said:


> She's living with her mother, 2 streets away. She has our daughter with her. The guy she is/was seeing/texting doesn't live in this town. Its 24 degrees out hence the skimpy outfit.
> 
> she has been inappropriate, but I don't think anything suspicious is going on currently.
> 
> She's an awful liar, and its a small town, eyes everywhere.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ok. Do not accept her BS.

You know what you need to do.

And you have all the time in the world to do it.


----------



## Chris22

Yeah man, thanks for the advice, makes me stronger in my resolve.

I'm through with her BS, I have no reason to trust her right now. She doesn't want a divorce.. I know that but I don't know why.

I shouldn't be the only one who is fighting, she wants me back she knows what she has to do.

And I finally think I know what I have to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Chris22 said:


> Yeah man, thanks for the advice, makes me stronger in my resolve.
> 
> I'm through with her BS, I have no reason to trust her right now. She doesn't want a divorce.. I know that but I don't know why.
> 
> I shouldn't be the only one who is fighting, she wants me back she knows what she has to do.
> 
> And I finally think I know what I have to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Chris

They never want a D when they can get their fix of affection from both sides.

Just watch her now. You cannot control her.

HM64


----------



## Chris22

Yeah I've heard of this before, however if she really didn't want a divorce or wanted affection from both sides why would she be so cold? She knows that I will leave her. If she wanted to play me and sleep around surely she would be trying to win my trust and stop being such a ***** 

I don't know what she's holding on to, and frankly right now I don't particularly care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> Yeah I've heard of this before, however if she really didn't want a divorce or wanted affection from both sides why would she be so cold? *She knows that I will leave her*._Perhaps she know´s it now. But before today.She taught she had you in her back pocket.
> Ie he is not leaving kinda attitude._ If she wanted to play me and sleep around surely she would be trying to win my trust and stop being such a *****
> 
> I don't know what she's holding on to, and frankly right now I don't particularly care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

She knows well OM is a dead end. He's a loser as you told us. She won't give up the ride anyway. She's too addicted to him now, it's what only matter to her NOW, over her children, over her reputation, and of course over you. She's at "I will bother tomarrow" state. That's why I told you to expose her to her family and friends the very moment she get into the car/plane to that travel. She will start getting calls in the middle of the trip. Tell them she chose the persuit to bang this OM over her family after being warned and you had to divorce her. Don't let them rewrite and gaslights. Nad go completely dark on her.
Maybe deep down she doesn't believe you will follow through with the divorce, maybe she believes she can always manipulate you into coming back after banging OM, maybe it's power trip for her anyway, tride thing (Is she that stunborn normaly?), who knows. Better try not to overthink it. She's an addict.

Hard 180, go dark on her, exposure, lawyer.


----------



## Chris22

Well said guys. This is pretty much what I thought, Ill file for divorce ASAP.

It doesn't matter the outcome, if it snaps her back to reality then maybe I will forgive her, if she let's me divorce her then I needed it anyway. 

Win win.

One thing is for sure though, she will control my life no longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seasalt

Chris,

One of your earlier posts resonated with me. I had posted in Betrayed's reconcilliation thread about how I knew I loved my wife back over forty years ago. We had a huge fight and went to our separate homes totally and utterly angry with each other. We remained in no contact for almost a week. During that time I realized that eventhough I was still unhappy I was more unhappy without her. You have indicated just the opposite. Take a true inventory of your feelings for her as your wife and not just as the mother of your child (she'll always be that) and see if your happier in her company or not.

Finally, as I posted earlier, be sure in your mind if not hers that she knows that if she leaves for that weekend away you will divorce her. You know that you will always think, rightly or wrongly, she cheated if she does


----------



## Shaggy

Chris you need to tell her family that she is having an affair with Ian, is going with him on this drinking/drugs/sex weekend, and that the cover of going just with her friend is a lie. 

Do it now with the explanation that you can't accept being treated like that and you won't be the fool who waits for her at home with your child for her to return from her sex vacation with another man.


----------



## Machiavelli

Chris22 said:


> Yeah I've heard of this before, however if she really didn't want a divorce or wanted affection from both sides why would she be so cold? She knows that I will leave her. If she wanted to play me and sleep around surely she would be trying to win my trust and stop being such a *****
> 
> I don't know what she's holding on to, and frankly right now I don't particularly care.


She's holding onto her "beta-provider": that would be you. It's your function to work and provide for HRH and any spawn she may have while she seeks sexual thrills elsewhere with "higher value" men. She sees you as "low-value" sexually and doesn't think you can get another woman under any circumstances. These are all subliminal, limbic type "feelings" and most likely nothing she has actually pondered consciously. See: MMSL, NMMNG, Roissy.


----------



## Shaggy

She also thinks you'll cave and take her back. That you are bluffing.

Exposé to her family ASAP
And get with the lawyer and file ASAP 
Before she goes away
She may finally realize her plan isn't playing out.


----------



## happyman64

We all agree that she is being a lousy wife.

My two cents is a recap of everyone's advice.

Exposé her A with the posom (Ian) to everyone in her family.

Tell her if she goes away that you will D her.

Then go dark, see an attorney and get the ball rolling.

No matter what she is showing you no respect and is being a *****.

She can't be too on earned about your child if she is ging away for a wild weekend with the OM for sex and drugs.

So draw the line in the sand and move forward with your life.

Se is young and quite immature.


----------



## Feeling_bad

Chris22 said:


> She told me the next day, and I know what she is like when drunk, she's useless and irresponsible and on occasion drinks way too much.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Chris, if you read my post "Bad Night", you'll see my wife is this way when drunk as well. My wife recognizes this now after what happened this weekend and has swore not to drink again. Not that I see how far my wife would take it when drunk, there is no way I would let her go on the adults only weekend getaway. If you know your wife is like this, tell her your concerns about going. If she respects you, she'll not go.


----------



## CH

Feeling_bad said:


> Chris, if you read my post "Bad Night", you'll see my wife is this way when drunk as well. My wife recognizes this now after what happened this weekend and has swore not to drink again. Not that I see how far my wife would take it when drunk, there is no way I would let her go on the adults only weekend getaway. If you know your wife is like this, tell her your concerns about going. If she respects you, she'll not go.


He already told her, she said she's still going.

And FB, drunk or sober I think you've only hit the tip of the iceburg in your situation.

Good luck to you Chris!


----------



## Kasler

Good. 

This isn't just to let her know you mean business. 

This is what is best for you. Be no one's BACKUP husband. 

Better yet on the day she is coming back, take all crap and clothes and pack them and put them on the front lawn.

Also expose to family. Don't give her a chance to let her twist the story with you as the bad guy.

Make sure that they know when she had the choice of working on her decaying marriage or a sex vacation with another man, she chose the latter. 

Keep us posted.


----------



## the guy

Feeling_bad said:


> Chris, if you read my post "Bad Night", you'll see my wife is this way when drunk as well. My wife recognizes this now after what happened this weekend and has swore not to drink again. Not that I see how far my wife would take it when drunk, there is no way I would let her go on the adults only weekend getaway. If you know your wife is like this, tell her your concerns about going. If she respects you, she'll not go.


Chris's wife is going and she will have her fun cuz she still thinks the old chris is still around, the one that tried the 180 and broke down, the one that took her back after she screwed around the 1st time.

See she hasn't really seen the new Chris, but in her mind she will come back from the weekend, sexually satisfied and worn out, who knows she might be a one at a time girl or she might be an all at once girl, but she will get her "fill" and when she does she will come back to Chris begging to come home and try to convience him that nothing happened.

See there is new chris she has yet to know....then one that will stop tolorating sharing his wife and being used for stability and security when her buzz wears off. 

It will only be after this great weekend is when she will see the new Chris and by then it will be to late for her.

Sorry she had her chance to save her marriage and failed.


----------



## Chaparral

Kasler said:


> Good.
> 
> This isn't just to let her know you mean business.
> 
> This is what is best for you. Be no one's BACKUP husband.
> 
> Better yet on the day she is coming back, take all crap and clothes and pack them and put them on the front lawn.
> 
> Also expose to family. Don't give her a chance to let her twist the story with you as the bad guy.
> 
> Make sure that they know when she had the choice of working on her decaying marriage or a sex vacation with another man, she chose the latter.
> 
> Keep us posted.


I like this with one exception. Chris needs to ask her now where she wants him to deliver her stuff while she's gone, OM's house sounds good.


----------



## Chris22

Hey guys. as always thanks for the comments.

new Chris is definitely in force. Not taking bull****, not wasting my life.

Quick update on how things are going:

Divorce: Papers are filled out, no need for a solicitor or lawyer as I see it. We own very little property and that which we do own is mine as she has nowhere to put it. Will be heading down the bank tomorrow to write a cheque for the £340 a divorce costs in this country, will be heading straight from there to the nearest post box.

Her stuff: We are both heading down to the house we lived in during the week. I intend to be ruthless with most of the stuff that we owned together (pictures, ornaments, cutesy stuff etc) binning what I stopped caring about, as it obviously meant nothing to her in the first place. whatever is left of hers after this date will be black bagged and delivered to her mothers house. As fun as it would be to dump it on the OM's doorstep I feel I should rise above it.

My daughter: I will be seeing her regularly and fairly, if my wife so much as thinks of stopping me I will get all sorts of law involved. We both took her on a day out today, as we already had it booked and its been something we looked forward to for a long time. I spent no time talking about my life, and made it clear I wasn't interested in talking about hers. As soon as we got back, I dropped her off, Job done. My daughter had a great day which is all I wanted.

The Wife: Distant, cold as usual. Seems happy on the outside but almost as if her heart is no longer echoing the smile she wears on her face. She texts me occasionally as I have stopped sending the late night/early morning "i'm lonely, i love you" texts. Whatever she does its her choice, Her trivial endeavours no longer concern me. I'm out.

Her family: I told one of her brothers (she has 5, all adults) the whole story, he was less than impressed with both his sister and the OM with who he does/did get on with. Told me that I will always be a brother to him, and he understands why I am divorcing her and says that I deserve to be treated better. The rest of the family will no doubt find out through him

My life: Better. Friends and family and all of you guys on TAM have been nothing but understanding and supportive. I'm happy and I am getting on well, I know that I will have my bad days where I'm missing what was, but they will be less and less frequent, until the day I remember this as something unpleasant and nothing more.

Odd occurrences: In a pub with my friends on Saturday night, sober, purely there to chill. Several girls come over, one of whom strikes up a conversation with me. Spend half an hour chatting before I leave. Wake up in the morning to a message on facebook, continuing the conversation. Have arranged to meet up at some point in the week to say hi as we got on pretty well. Unsure on what to do next??

Thankyou all for helping me fight for my own life!


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Chris22 said:


> Odd occurrences: In a pub with my friends on Saturday night, sober, purely there to chill. Several girls come over, one of whom strikes up a conversation with me. Spend half an hour chatting before I leave. Wake up in the morning to a message on facebook, continuing the conversation. Have arranged to meet up at some point in the week to say hi as we got on pretty well. Unsure on what to do next??


Now that's what I'm talkin about. 

By the way, nothing will increase your sex rank like another woman's interest.


----------



## Chris22

I must admit that this was not my intent on the night out. I just find it odd that this has happened at this particular time in my life. A friend of mine suggested that as I am back in control of my life I am giving of some sort of "subconscious vibe" when i talk. I mean, all I said to the girl was "hi how are you, enjoying your night?" politely. I have never met the woman before but she seems nice and is fun to talk to.

I guess it cant do any harm to increase my sex rank?

In case anyone does wonder, I think it highly unlikely that this is some sort of test instigated by my wife. 

The things that now concern me are where to go from here, and what to say. Am i ready to start dating again? I don't especially feel like I'm on the "rebound" and I'm certainly not trying to rush into anything with this new woman, i have only just met her. Also what constitutes an "EX wife" Legally of course we are still married, and will be for a while. But emotionally the connection isn't there. I remember a time when I was proud to say I was married, but right now is not that time. In honesty I would rather call her my ex.


----------



## MattMatt

Chris22 said:


> I don't intend to, it made me feel small.
> 
> She was wearing a skimpy outfit though, is it odd that I still find her incredibly attractive?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No. Not surprising in the least. Sadly.


----------



## Shaggy

No doubt you were giving off a strong alpha vibe in your actions and the way you stood. Also if the other guys were putting a lot of attention in talking to you it would make you look like the alpha inthr group,

Remember that and use it you are ready.


----------



## MattMatt

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Chris, my ex is a Brit by birth (lived there until she was 6 months old) and I was shocked when we visited there in 1994 how many couples were 'shacking up' instead of marrying. You and your wife are quite young -- too young if you ask me to be married. If things doesn't work out (a strong possibility) you might want to consider not getting married again until you're much older.


It's often known as Marrying over the broom or brush
Jumping the broom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## happyman64

Chris

I am glad you are getting your vibe back.

Get your D done. Then go have fun.

Nothing wrong with chatting on FB but you know your STBXW is reading along with you.

My two pence never stoop to her level. Get your D done and then you are free to do whatever you want.

HM64


----------



## Chris22

happyman64 said:


> Chris
> 
> I am glad you are getting your vibe back.
> 
> Get your D done. Then go have fun.
> 
> Nothing wrong with chatting on FB but you know your STBXW is reading along with you.
> 
> My two pence never stoop to her level. Get your D done and then you are free to do whatever you want.
> 
> HM64


That sounds very sensible.

The D will be getting sent to the courts either tomorrow or wednesday... i don't honestly know how long it will take after that.

My STBXW doesn't know i'm talking to this girl, Very few people do. Its of course private messaging and she doesn't have access to my account. 

I don't intend to stoop to her level, for now we are just meeting up for a coffee or something, If anything maybe just to gain a new friend. If feelings get stronger in the coming weeks I would most likely be honest and tell my ex that I am seeing someone, not for revenge, not to gloat, just so she knows where she stands.


----------



## happyman64

Chris22 said:


> That sounds very sensible.
> 
> The D will be getting sent to the courts either tomorrow or wednesday... i don't honestly know how long it will take after that.
> 
> My STBXW doesn't know i'm talking to this girl, Very few people do. Its of course private messaging and she doesn't have access to my account.
> 
> I don't intend to stoop to her level, for now we are just meeting up for a coffee or something, If anything maybe just to gain a new friend. If feelings get stronger in the coming weeks I would most likely be honest and tell my ex that I am seeing someone, not for revenge, not to gloat, just so she knows where she stands.


Do not say anything to your ex. Let the Divorce papers say everything for you!


----------



## WorkingOnMe

You two are clearly separated. She knows full well that you're filing for divorce. THIS IS NOT CHEATING. Feel free to do whatever you want with this new woman. 

However, emotionally it may not be all that wise, rebound and everything...


----------



## Chris22

WorkingOnMe said:


> You two are clearly separated. She knows full well that you're filing for divorce. THIS IS NOT CHEATING. Feel free to do whatever you want with this new woman.
> 
> However, emotionally it may not be all that wise, rebound and everything...


Yeah I did think about the potential emotional consequences of what could happen if I started in another relationship, but then figured that all I'm doing is going for a chat with someone who clearly showed some interest in what I had to say.

She is attractive and interesting, and so far that is what I feel about her. Nothing more or less.

If it came to a point where I believe I was starting to develop feelings for her then I think that I would have found my answer as to whether I was ready for another relationship. Either way by this point she would already know about what my life has been lately. I don't intend to use her to get over my wife, but i'm thinking way ahead. Its just a coffee.


----------



## Machiavelli

Chris22 said:


> I obviously didn't know her as well as I thought if I didn't know she was capable of such coldness and cruelty.


You mean there are women who are not capable of coldness and cruelty?


----------



## Chris22

Machiavelli said:


> You mean there are women who are not capable of coldness and cruelty?


I would imagine everyone is capable of coldness and cruelty. At least on some level. 

But to do it to someone you claim to love? I think maybe it takes a different kind of person to do that.

EDIT** just thought about it. Key word "claim". Perhaps she couldn't have done this to me when she loved me, after all, it did happen when she reportedly stopped loving me like she used to... In other words, when she got what she felt was a better offer.


----------



## Machiavelli

Chris22 said:


> I would imagine everyone is capable of coldness and cruelty. At least on some level.
> 
> But to do it to someone you claim to love? I think maybe it takes a different kind of person to do that.


I've known a lot of women, some involved with me and others involved with family and friends. Heck, some of them are family. If you lose rank far enough with them, I think they're all fully capable. Kind of a nature of the beast thing. That doesn't make them bad, it's just how they get rid of you when they're through with you.


----------



## Chris22

Machiavelli said:


> I've known a lot of women, some involved with me and others involved with family and friends. Heck, some of them are family. If you lose rank far enough with them, I think they're all fully capable. Kind of a nature of the beast thing. That doesn't make them bad, it's just how they get rid of you when they're through with you.


If I'm honest, until recently I believed that as humans we were in full control of most of our emotions and feelings. But over the past few months I have realised that its not always that simple. It seems the subconscious really does play a big part in the way people feel about eachother. Its something I'm getting more interested in, ill take your advice and read some books.


----------



## Shamwow

Chris - rock on. Enjoy the new vibe. I met my current GF literally as I was typing up the final divorce settlement agreement at a restaurant. She knew of my status (moved out and papers served) the whole time. Took it slow, but it felt right. Here we are almost 10 months later, divorce long final, still going strong.

Good luck, and clearly you are aware you shouldn't jump into anything too fast...but feelings and attraction being what they are, feel free to let it play out. Just make sure she knows exactly what your status is, and tell her about your inevitable contact w your stbxw throughout the divorce.

Good hunting sir!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

And use MMSL, NMMNG and all other new manned-up traits from the get go with this girl. Good strong footing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris22

Shamwow said:


> Chris - rock on. Enjoy the new vibe. I met my current GF literally as I was typing up the final divorce settlement agreement at a restaurant. She knew of my status (moved out and papers served) the whole time. Took it slow, but it felt right. Here we are almost 10 months later, divorce long final, still going strong.
> 
> Good luck, and clearly you are aware you shouldn't jump into anything too fast...but feelings and attraction being what they are, feel free to let it play out. Just make sure she knows exactly what your status is, and tell her about your inevitable contact w your stbxw throughout the divorce.
> 
> Good hunting sir!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Hell of a boost! thankyou very much!


----------



## The bishop

I like where your head is at!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## Chris22

Hey guys, Apologies for bringing up an old thread. Just updating on the situation.

So I did the 180... Certainly worked for me, I've been happier over the past week than I have been in well over a month.

Went on the family day out, everything was fine.

Went to move all of me and the stbxw's stuff out of our old flat on wednesday. I'm not being mean, but I'm being pretty nonchalant. I was binning most of the crap we collected whist we lived there, including most of the sentimental stuff. 

Divorce papers are all in order, just waiting to go to the bank so I can get hold of the money to pay for it.

Suddenly she starts crying about all the stuff I was getting rid of, she begins to start getting sentimental. telling me she loves me and that she didn't want this. She didn't try any physical contact with me like I did with her when she was cold, she just gave me sad looks. I told her that I didn't want to hear it, and that i don't believe what she is saying. Instantly, more tears. so I took her home. It wasn't long before the text messages started flooding from her... seems that the shoe is now very much on the other foot. 

Next day the texting begins again, so I ignore it for most of the day.,Until it gets to a point where I finally go round to her house at 10pm in frustration. She says she is sorry for everything that has happened and she knows its all her fault. She says she wants nothing to do with the OM and is ready to start loving me again, and wants to be a family. I explain to her I have a hard job believing her HOWEVER against my better judgement I am willing to give her a chance if she really does want to reconcile and honestly realises what she has done wrong. 

So we go for a little drive, she's smiling, we have a nice little chat about how although I have a trust issue, in time I will get over it and we will overcome our problems... Then there is a tension in the air... I know what's coming next.

"So what are we going to do about Butlins?"

Immediately I pull the car over. I told her "you know how I feel about butlins" to which she replies "well... I'm still going" I then said "I'm sorry you feel that way, the divorce will be going ahead" I took her straight home and drove away.

Of course after this the texts start flooding in about how "i cant believe you are divorcing me over something so petty" and "i wont go anywhere near Ian, I'm not interested in him at all" After a while i got stressed out with it and went to her house to personally tell her to stop it.

She was a complete mess, crying her eyes out for about 30 minutes. I couldn't cheer her up, there was nothing I could say. She told me that this was the last time she would see all of her friends together for a long time and was something she felt she had to do. She actually tried to accuse me of making her pick between me and her friends, nothing I said made any difference to this what so ever. I have seen my wife cry like this on very few occasions, and when she has it has been to do with a severe loss, eg. death of a close friend, or family memeber. I'm still a nice guy and so I decide to listen to her although I know nothing I say will change what she's thinking, Her mind is already made up.

Shortly after I told her I was going to leave, as I was clearly just making her more upset. I walked out her door without looking back, and I could hear her break down into tears again. I didn't go back, and haven't seen her since. About 5 minutes after I left I phoned her brother, told him what had happened and that she needed someone to talk to. 

Turns out that several of her brothers doubt her reasons for going to butlins also. Seems like she has lost their respect and trust too, this is obviously eating her up.

Whole thing sounds to me like complete false Reconciliation. She doesn't want to face up to the consequences of her actions and is trying to rugsweep. Every threat that she throws at me is returned with a nonchalant reply, its obviously getting to her and depressing her massively.

Anything I can do to make all of this easier?

Cheers, Chris.


----------



## Shaggy

Pretty cheeky move on her part after getting you to try again.

It's darn simple, if she really wants to go then she shoud have brought you too. But that would have blocked her affair and playing around wouldn't it?


----------



## Complexity

Chris, you folded way too easily.


----------



## the guy

NO....dude she is still going to bultin's and until that issues goes away and she choose you over her friends then make it as hard as possible....

Man its not suppossed to be easy for her thats the damb point!!!!!!!!!! Geez, are you nuts if anything make it harder for her.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

She's made her choice; stick with yours.


----------



## lordmayhem

Kudos to you Chris! Electronic fist bump for you! Glad to see you didn't fall for her crocodile tears. If nothing else, your WW is a great actress.



Chris22 said:


> Of course after this the texts start flooding in about how "i cant believe you are divorcing me over something so petty"


A good response would have been "I can't believe you're destroying our marriage over something so petty". And obviously its not petty since she's willing to destroy her marriage over it.



Chris22 said:


> and "i wont go anywhere near Ian, I'm not interested in him at all" After a while i got stressed out with it and went to her house to personally tell her to stop it.


Whether the OM is there or not, its still a deal breaker, in addition to being a bald faced lie.



Chris22 said:


> She actually tried to accuse me of making her pick between me and her friends, nothing I said made any difference to this what so ever.


In a marriage, there should be no choice whatsoever. Obviously her friends are more important to her than you and the marriage. Glad you saw that. 



Chris22 said:


> Anything I can do to make all of this easier?
> 
> Cheers, Chris.


Continue to detach using the 180. You might want to go out and relax with a few mates of yours or start a new hobby, or continue working on your physical fitness.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

Do not let up. She is playing games.

Tears are just that tears.

And if she really wanted the marriage to work she would not go. It is as simple as that.

All she is worried about is her OM and her "friends".

Stand firm.


----------



## Chris22

Cheers for the replies.

You're all saying the things I was thinking in my own head. She is trying to placate me and cake eat. Ill admit its sad seeing her so upset but she's doing it all to herself. There is nothing I can do to help.

Lordmayhem: the points you brought up are very valid, in fact, on the first one, that's the EXACT response I gave her. 



Shaggy said:


> Pretty cheeky move on her part after getting you to try again.
> 
> It's darn simple, if she really wants to go then she shoud have brought you too. But that would have blocked her affair and playing around wouldn't it?


Exactly, Very cheeky considering all the crap I have put up with. Even gave me the teary eyed "how can you be so cold? you obviously dont care about me" line.

Puzzlingly she's said that I can come to Butlins if I want to, because nothing is going to happen. Point is I don't want to go. Its a pile of sh1t, and its expensive. And keeping track of her and all her stupid friends all night is not my idea of a good time. 

She claims that she wont be drinking heavily, as she knows how close she came to something happening when she passed out in a bustop a few weekends back. I don't believe this for a second. She has told me she will stop drinking the morning after, every time she has had too much and starts acting a fool. Her drinking habits have got her into hot water several times in the past with both me and others, She was raped by a "friend" when she was 13 and that wasn't enough to get her to stop.

When her little weekend is all over and done with, She will look back and realize that she has lost her husband, her family unit and lost the respect and trust of several of her friends and family. Judging by the way she's acting she will try again to win me back...

...She wont.


----------



## the guy

the guy said:


> See she hasn't really seen the new Chris, but in her mind she will come back from the weekend, sexually satisfied and worn out, who knows she might be a one at a time girl or she might be an all at once girl, but she will get her "fill" and when she does she will come back to Chris begging to come home and try to convience him that nothing happened.
> 
> See there is new chris she has yet to know....then one that will stop tolorating sharing his wife and being used for stability and security when her buzz wears off.
> 
> It will only be after this great weekend is when she will see the new Chris and by then it will be to late for her.
> .


Wow I called this wrong in a way, I'd figure the begging would happen after the weekend not before.

And the new chris has stepped up soonr then I thought .....great job sir...well played!


BTW, this just isn't about the weekend either, I think she seems to fail to see that she has cheated on chris in the past. IMHO it not just the weekend but a compination of her adultous behavior.


----------



## Chris22

the guy said:


> Wow I called this wrong in a way, I'd figure the begging would happen after the weekend not before.
> 
> And the new chris has stepped up soonr then I thought .....great job sir...well played!
> 
> 
> BTW, this just isn't about the weekend either, I think she seems to fail to see that she has cheated on chris in the past. IMHO it not just the weekend but a compination of her adultous behavior.


Yeah, it happened faster than I would have thought. 

I agree with what many have said about the 180, its primary function is to sort your personal emotions out, Which it has. But as a secondary result is causes your ex to completely lose control of the situation.

What's stranger is that she admitted that in the same situation should roles be reversed she would NOT want me to go to butlins.... WTF!? Bang! there goes her argument sailing out the window.

Is it possible that I married a complete idiot?


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> Yeah, it happened faster than I would have thought.
> 
> I agree with what many have said about the 180, its primary function is to sort your personal emotions out, Which it has. But as a secondary result is causes your ex to completely lose control of the situation.


You do realize if you two makes it..She would Seriously need to seek help for her drinking and possible rape right?


----------



## warlock07

Even in the best case, I think she does not realize how inappropriate the whole thing is, especially after cheating on Chris. She sees it as one last get together and having a good time with her friends before they all separate. She is being an idiot!!


----------



## the guy

Chris22 said:


> Even gave me the teary eyed "how can you be so cold? you obviously dont care about me" line.
> .


Again she seem to have forget she is the one that cheated on you and fails to see the heavy lifting she needs to do to save *her* fragile marraige. Sad...very sad..

BTW is all the packing done, it seems to trigger her sadness, more packing might bring her back to reality?


----------



## lordmayhem

Chris22 said:


> I agree with what many have said about the 180, its primary function is to sort your personal emotions out, Which it has. But as a secondary result is causes your ex to completely lose control of the situation.


Glad to see you know the purpose of the 180. Far too many people misinterpret it, and use it influence the WS back into the marriage. They say things like "The 180 isn't working on him/her!" The 180 is for you. Sure, as an extra result it might affect the WS, but that's not its primary purpose.


----------



## Jonesey

Chriss

Take this from a 40 year old man.For what is worth..

You are young.You really dont need this drama at your age.
you might seriously consider walking away for good..

I know i would


----------



## Chris22

Jonesey said:


> You do realize if you two makes it..She would Seriously need to seek help for her drinking and possible rape right?


Binge drinking is massively common for young women in the UK, and probably is in most of the western world... Probably because it CAN be bloody good fun if you control yourself. But she's small and tries to keep up with all her brothers. She's not alcoholic, she rarely drinks except for nights out. That's where the problem lies.

As for the rape, we have spoke about it before, it happened a long time ago and she's put it in the past and says it doesn't really bother her any more.



warlock07 said:


> Even in the best case, I think she does not realize how inappropriate the whole thing is, especially after cheating on Chris. She sees it as one last get together and having a good time with her friends before they all separate. She is being an idiot!!


EXACTLY. She doesn't see why its inappropriate.


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> Binge drinking is massively common for young women in the UK, and probably is in most of the western world... Probably because it CAN be bloody good fun if you control yourself. But she's small and tries to keep up with all her brothers. She's not alcoholic, she rarely drinks except for nights out. That's where the problem lies.
> 
> As for the rape, we have spoke about it before, it happened a long time ago and she's put it in the past and says it doesn't really bother her any more.


I know about the bing drinking. I lived in Dublin/Irleland for 3 years.Seen enough UK women to know what goes on when the come over for GNO.To know what happens. Binge drinking is no different is as commen as in UK in Ireland BTW.


----------



## the guy

Chris22 said:


> As for the rape, we have spoke about it before, it happened a long time ago and she's put it in the past and says it doesn't really bother her any more.


I think thats bull crap!


----------



## Chris22

the guy said:


> I think thats bull crap!


Its never been a problem before? its something she felt fairly comfortable talking about.


----------



## Jonesey

the guy said:


> I think thats bull crap!


I agree. She most likley never dealt with it.


----------



## the guy

So you think her adultous behavior has nothing to do with her rape?

I can tell you I think my wifes date rape when she was a teenager has alot to do with her infidelity issues as an adult. The 20 OM my fWW was with may not have a direct relation to her rape but I think it was a facter on how she handled an unhealthy marriage and her permicous behavior as a youth.


----------



## Chris22

Jonesey said:


> I agree. She most likley never dealt with it.


Possibly not. But I still don't think that's the issue here. She needs to understand that her actions have consequences and if she really wants things to work she has to face them.

Were is me in the situation, I would not go to butlins, even if I hadn't cheated if she was genuinely concerned I would not go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris22

the guy said:


> So you think her adultous behavior has nothing to do with her rape?
> 
> I can tell you I think my wifes date rape when she was a teenager has alot to do with her infidelity issues as an adult. The 20 OM my fWW was with may not have a direct relation to her rape but I think it was a facter on how she handled an unhealthy marriage and her permicous behavior as a youth.


I would imagine it might be a factor, but why now? Besides, its not like I can really talk to her about it. 

Stabbing in the dark is only going to cause problems and upset her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> Possibly not. But I still don't think that's the issue here. She needs to understand that her actions have consequences and if she really wants things to work she has to face them.
> 
> Were is me in the situation, I would not go to butlins, even if I hadn't cheated if she was genuinely concerned I would not go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok. How did she dealt with here rape?
Now compare every thing as it is today..
whats different? She should know what happens on this so called binge drinking.remember buss stop.


----------



## the guy

I'm curious, is her social circle that tight that she will risk losing her marraige or does Ian have that much influence over her?

In your opinion, are her friends so envolved in her day to day that she's this torn up, I mean hell with FB and cell phones its not like she can't stay in contact no matter how far they move away?

I guess I'm trying to see through her tears for hes loss of friends. It doesn't seem right/normal for some reason ... family first right?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I probably would have demanded that I go with her. But you've made your stand and now you have to dig your heals in. Best case would be that you serve her the papers before she leaves. 

I can guarantee that she thinks that she can go and then come back and smooth things over with you. She's gambling with your relationship.


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> Possibly not. But I still don't think that's the issue here. She needs to understand that her actions have consequences and if she really wants things to work she has to face them.
> 
> Were is me in the situation, I would not go to butlins, even if I hadn't cheated if she was genuinely concerned I would not go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry man but you seem to talk alot about,her need to understand that her action's have concequences. I agree.

But what concequences has she faced yet?


----------



## lordmayhem

WorkingOnMe said:


> I can guarantee that she thinks that she can go and then come back and smooth things over with you. She's gambling with your relationship.


:iagree:

Start crying the crocodile tears and bombarding him with text messages, etc.


----------



## the guy

I can think of one consequence she faced....and thats packing all the sentilmental crap that signifies the end of her marriage.

And the fact she does have a home anymore....that 2


----------



## Acabado

She's soooo inmature. If you back off on this with out real, tangible consequences in case she goes to that site she'll stay there, at 13 years old stage.
If she goes, divorce is a must.


----------



## the guy

It might be time to change your cellphone number chris......


----------



## Kasler

The rape is irrelevant, truly irrelevant. 

It can cause problems in a relationship, but not the problem we're seeing here so lets not take away from the issue at hand.

The main thing here is Trip with 'friends' >> Trip with OM >>>>>> Marriage

This cannot be tolerated under any circumstance. 

To marry someone, have them live in your house and have a ring on their finger only to have a 3rd place medal pinned to your chest is completely unacceptable. 

She is selfish. For all shes said and all her BS crocodile tears I haven't once heard her say "What can I do to fix this?"

She does not want to sacrifice anything for the marriage she allegedly cares about(not enough to cancel trip though), and those kind of women are bad marriage partners. 

Also she didn't come back to you out of guilt. She didn't just wake up and realize that what she was doing was completely screwed up and she loves her husband. the *ONLY* reason she came to you was because she saw that you weren't fvcking around anymore.

She was expecting to go have a blast at butlins, fvck the OMs brains out and then smooth things out with you later and go back to the status quo. 

THAT WAS THE PLAN. 

ACTUALLY THATS STILL THE PLAN. 

Shes *still* going, eventhough her marriage is falling apart, but is just trying to do damage control now rather than after the trip. 

Any reconciliation with her would be false. 

D her, and then go on to meet a woman who really knows how to take care of her man. Theres nothing better than being your woman's #1 above everything and truly knowing it for sure.


----------



## the guy

Kasler said:


> The main thing here is Trip with 'friends' >> Trip with OM >>>>>> Marriage


Lets not foget WW past adultory with OM...if that was never found out, OP would have been fine that WW went to bultin's with her "friends"...maybe maybe not, but WW past infidelity is a thing as far as main things go.


----------



## Chris22

the guy said:


> I'm curious, is her social circle that tight that she will risk losing her marraige or does Ian have that much influence over her?
> 
> In your opinion, are her friends so envolved in her day to day that she's this torn up, I mean hell with FB and cell phones its not like she can't stay in contact no matter how far they move away?
> 
> I guess I'm trying to see through her tears for hes loss of friends. It doesn't seem right/normal for some reason ... family first right?


No, her social circle is fairly relaxed. She sometimes goes a week or two without seeing any of her friends, her friends are idiots... But well meaning idiots in general. Some of them I do/did get on with really well. 

**** Paragraph badly typed, Edited for accuracy here and cleared up in a later post **** 

_I don't think ian has any influence over her. She *said in the messages she* has always liked him him. *This doesn't fit in with the good relationship we had.* Me and my wife were boyfriend and girlfriend when I was 16 and she 15. She did exactly the same thing then, kissed ian and left. Of course I didn't fight nearly as hard as it was just a fling. This is supported by the discovered messages aswell. She said that they had "always had a thing for eachother" *in the messages on facebook, however I'm not sure if she was just saying this to get closer to what she thought was her only chance of happiness*_

She will lose no friends because of failing to attend butlins. Some of them are travelling europe starting at the end of november, and a few are getting married and plan on having children around the same time... But they are still staying in the same town. 

It does seem odd, I don't know how she is rationalising all of this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kasler

^ That too TG, and she actually told him that he doesn't mean anything to her. 

Cheaters, they never make any sense in that fog addled brain of theirs.


----------



## Jonesey

*She has always had a crush on him. Me and my wife were boyfriend and girlfriend when I was 16 and she 15. She did exactly the same thing then, kissed ian and left. *

And you wonder why your in this mess know?

You coulden´t have told us this earlier ?
because know it all makes sense


----------



## the guy

You have just clearified the need to go to butlin's...I would think it obvious mate.

Come on "you don't know if ian has an influence over her....hell at the end of your post you stated that she has always had a thing for ian.

Ian sure as hell has a *big* influence on your chick and those are tears of frustration that you are making her affair so inconvienent.

Its not about her friends its about Ian...


----------



## Almostrecovered

apparently you don't speak fog, it's a language more difficult than Icelandic


----------



## Chris22

Hang on, I miss messaged that, ill start again.

I don't think ian has any influence over her. Despite what they did in the past, its never reared its head again and she has seen him several times since, before she kissed him. Her crush on him was no more than me finding my ex girlfriend (now in a relationship with my best friend) attractive. She has known him for years and had plenty of opportunity to cheat before if she so wished.

Only in the messages that I discovered did I see her say that they "always had a thing" or whatever. Maybe it was a line to try get him to like her more. I don't know. It seems like after she kissed him she assumed that I would never trust her again and felt compelled to lie in the grave that she dug. That grave being an innapropriate relationship with ian.

All of this was stated in my longer post in considering divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> Hang on, I miss messaged that, ill start again.
> 
> *I don't think ian has any influence over her*. She why is she dead set on going,when she know he will be there?Despite what they did in the past, its never reared its head again and she has seen him several times since, before she kissed him.* Her crush on him was no more than me finding my ex girlfriend (now in a relationship with my best friend) attractive. She has known him for years and had plenty of opportunity to cheat before if she so wished.*
> And you know the haven't? because?
> 
> Only in the messages that I discovered did I see her say that they* "always had a thing" or whatever. Maybe it was a line to try get him to like her more. * Why is she trying that.Its nothing there you say.I don't know. It seems like after she kissed him she assumed that I would never trust her again and felt compelled to lie in the grave that she dug. That grave being an innapropriate relationship with ian.
> 
> All of this was stated in my longer post in considering divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh man you are one naive one..First love fantasy never goes a way..


----------



## Chris22

Jonesey said:


> Oh man you are one naive one..First love fantasy never goes a way..


After she kissed him her personality changed drastically, and then again when she began messaging him. I could tell something was up which is why I checked. 

Of course I don't KNOW that they have never had something before, but her personality has generally been stable since we have been married. that is before this business of course. I would imagine if something had happened I would have suspected. I don't think she can hide her feelings well. 

I was able to get hold of her phone on Saturday and again Wednesday, No messages from Ian. No messages to Ian, Perhaps they have taken their relationship underground, although I don't know how they would.

What bothers me is that they both made sure each other was going to butlins. Now they know that they no longer need to message... All thats left is the physical side of things, or maybe she really has stopped talking to him? i don't know, But as a previous poster said to me, and then I said to her:

"if you go to butlins, rightly or wrongly, I will believe you cheated on me"

As for her friend situation, This isn't an unprecedented event. She is fiercely loyal to them, especially one in particular. She is constantly worried about not letting them down, same goes for her family. Its annoying because she was never worried about letting me down.


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> *After she kissed him her personality changed drastically, and then again when she began messaging him. I could tell something was up which is why I checked. *
> 
> There you go Puppy love. I dont think Ian is the problem your wife is..
> *
> Of course I don't KNOW that they have never had something before, but her personality has generally been stable since we have been married.* That was what i taught,before my DD with my EXWW 2 year affair with jabba the hut.* that is before this business of course. I would imagine if something had happened I would have suspected. I don't think she can hide her feelings well. *
> Apparently she can
> 
> *I was able to get hold of her phone on Saturday and again Wednesday, No messages from Ian.* *No messages to Ian, Perhaps they have taken their relationship underground, although I don't know how they would.*
> Of course the have. She knows you monitor..
> have you cheacked for a pay as you go phone?
> *What bothers me is that they both made sure each other was going to butlins. Now they know that they no longer need to message... All thats left is the physical side of things,* Why do you think she is fighting this thing to go?*or maybe she really has stopped talking to him?*Hardly ,maybe the just drops the frequency.. i don't know, But as a previous poster said to me, and then I said to her:
> 
> *"if you go to butlins, rightly or wrongly, I will believe you cheated on me"*
> 
> You better believe she will.Sorry for being blunt
> 
> As for her friend situation, This isn't an unprecedented event. *She is fiercely loyal to them, especially one in particular. She is constantly worried about not letting them down,*But just not the father to her child and husband.Whats wrong with that picture? same goes for her family. Its annoying because she was never worried about letting me down.




Go a head with the divorce and do a proper 180 on her this time.. Divorce can always be redrawn


----------



## SadSamIAm

My opinion is that you should go to butlins.

If you don't go, the following will happen:

1) She will go and do whatever
2) She will come back and beg you to take her back. W
3) You will give in and take her back
4) You will never truly trust her again
5) She will lose respect for you and know that she can do whatever the hell she wants for the rest of your relationship.


----------



## Kasler

Christ you're wavering. That whole post was just a complete defense of her, dripping with naivete.

"Don't know how they can go underground?"

Trac fone(off the bills) secret alternate email account, the crapload of social networking sites, and so many other ways. 

Stay strong, in this post its worded like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone here.

Also chris its not that if shes going to butlins its cheating. Its that she rather go on a trip than work on her marriage thats coming to pieces. 

Don't focus on the PA as thats not the crux of the matter.

Thats just a candle compared to the roaring fire of her selfish and noncommittal attitude.


----------



## Chris22

Kasler said:


> Christ you're wavering. That whole post was just a complete defense of her, dripping with naivete.
> 
> Don't know how the can go underground?
> 
> Trac fone(off the bills) secret alternate email account. Theres so many social networks out there as well. foursquare, delicou, myspace, etc. and I doubt you've checked all of them.
> 
> Stay strong, in this post its worded like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone here.


I know that's how it comes across, but its purely factual. I have tracked her phone bills (I own the phone, and the contract is in my name, which she forgets) I know she has a second email account (which unbeknownst to her I have access to) Nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever. 

Her tears are genuine, she is obviously upset, but for completely the wrong reasons. Selfish reasons.

Do not forget guys, that I am still planning to, and will divorce her!

I'm just trying to make sense of the whole thing.

By the time she gets back from her weekend away, I will make sure that I'm not in a position to get back with her, by any means necessary.


----------



## Kasler

Tears mean nothing. Don't associate remorse with them. The cruelest of spouses can turn on the water works when it suits them. I wouldn't put her in their ranks, but shes mourning the loss of her easy life than the loss of her husband.

Whats important is that you maintain your resolve. 

Someone else got his resolve too but entirely too late.

He didn't keep his resolve and vets saw what was coming to him and told him to use 180, but he slipped.

6 months later hes back saying his wife is wanting to separate him and have him slum in a trailer home when he wasn't being the unpaid nanny to the kids.

(trying to appease a noncommittal spouse by being a nice guy only makes the entitlement and selfishness 10x worse cause then they get used to it as the norm and expect it) 

Keep your 180 up.


----------



## the guy

It sounds like you have all your bases cover....except for you and that is your emotions....tighten up on the 180 and keep your distance, the emotional torture you get everytime you engage her is painful.


----------



## Chris22

Kasler said:


> Tears mean nothing. Don't associate remorse with them. The cruelest of spouses can turn on the water works when it suits them. I wouldn't put her in their ranks, but shes mourning the loss of her easy life than the loss of her husband.
> 
> Whats important is that you maintain your resolve.
> 
> Someone else got his resolve too but entirely too late.
> 
> He didn't keep his resolve and vets saw what was coming to him and told him to use 180, but he slipped.
> 
> 6 months later hes back saying his wife is wanting to separate him and have him slum in a trailer home when he wasn't being the unpaid nanny to the kids.
> 
> (trying to appease a noncommittal spouse by being a nice guy only makes the entitlement and selfishness 10x worse cause then they get used to it as the norm and expect it)
> 
> Keep your 180 up.


Yeah, she text me a few times today. The more i chilled out and became calmer and nicer (although I was by no means nice) the more pushy she got. Tried to blame it on me again. Luckily i didn't let my guard down that much to let it get the better of me.



the guy said:


> It sounds like you have all your bases cover....except for you and that is your emotions....tighten up on the 180 and keep your distance, the emotional torture you get everytime you engage her is painful.


I intend to mate, but where do you draw the line. I noticed the other day that I could be nonchalant and that upset her... and when she was upset it put me in a position where I could have been cruel, and I started to on several occasions before I stopped myself. Its an easy pit to fall into. 

I don't want to be a ba$tard, its not me. But to be completely blank and cold? I can do that. I will endeavour to continue with this.

**edit: Also doesn't help my brain that the girl I met at the weekend has been texting me non stop and wants me, in no uncertain terms. I believe it would be unwise to continue into any sort of relationship other than friendship with her.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Respond to any text she sends with "you go this weekend and we're through". No matter what her text says just keep texting the same thing back to her.


----------



## Chris22

WorkingOnMe said:


> Respond to any text she sends with "you go this weekend and we're through". No matter what her text says just keep texting the same thing back to her.


I would, but I'm unsure of the outcome it would bring.

Apologies, I'm not dismissing what you have said, just sounds a bit odd.

Do you think this will really work? In some situations it might, but its nearly a month until she goes away. And wouldn't this just piss us both off.

We do of course have to text about the arrangements we have made for our daughter (but I assume you were not counting texts of that nature)

I've had a thought myself. Seems like she will do anything to get back with me (bar staying home instead of butlins) 
Possibly worth marriage counselling before she goes? Maybe snap her back to reality? Or is this a lost cause.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the weekend in question was starting tomorrow.


----------



## Chris22

WorkingOnMe said:


> Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the weekend in question was starting tomorrow.


Ah I see.

So possibly something to consider closer to the time. 

Thanks for the input.


----------



## the guy

Let the new chick know the score and tell you need to be in abetter place so she can see the real you...a better you and until the D is final alls you ask is her friendship.


As far as the WW goes, each time you show her indifference, then each time she see the new you and she second guesses her choices and the reality of what she is losing.

Keep drilling it in when you do have to deal with her. As you can see with out words. well in the manner of how you wording goes, enforces the new you....you don't ever want her to see the old you.

your angry words = justification to go to Ian

your loving words = chris will be waiting for me after Ian

get it?

Your doing great hence the early on set of her begging for the marriage. Which niether one of us expected.


----------



## Chris22

the guy said:


> Let the new chick know the score and tell you need to be in abetter place so she can see the real you...a better you and until the D is final alls you ask is her friendship.
> 
> 
> As far as the WW goes, each time you show her indifference, then each time she see the new you and she second guesses her choices and the reality of what she is losing.
> 
> Keep drilling it in when you do have to deal with her. As you can see with out words. well in the manner of who you wording goes, enforces the new your....you don't ever want her to see the old you.
> 
> your angry words = justificationto go to Ian
> 
> your loving words = chriss will be waiting for me
> 
> get it?
> 
> Your doing great hence the early on set of her begging for the marriage. Which niether one of us expected.


I did wonder if that would be the case. indifference seemed the best option, she was dstraught when I looked at all the valentines stuff she bought me like one would look at a blank piece of paper, this is what set her off in the first place. 

I have always been fairly good with speech when I have to be, I have a low tone and can have a blank facial expression. Something that she rarely (if ever) saw when we were together, even when arguing.

its clear she does not like this.


----------



## the guy

Geez your amonth away from butlins...Id stay focused on her past infidelity and worry about the "weekend" when it gets closure.

Hell if it was my wife she won't have even told me, maybe if she did she'd tell me she wasn't going just to get rid of my drama. Then I wouldn't know she went until she was gone. LOL


----------



## mahike

I guess you are nicer then me. Unless she told me the trip was off and really meant it she would her nothing from me but crickets. 

On the other hand if you are going to D anyway just not care! As far as the OW for you I would tell her I will talk with you again when this is over. 

Focus on you and your daughter. Make sure she know that she is the only girl that has your heart. Wait until everything is done with your STBXW before you move on.


----------



## Kasler

Chris22 said:


> I did wonder if that would be the case. indifference seemed the best option, she was dstraught when I looked at all the valentines stuff she bought me like one would look at a blank piece of paper, this is what set her off in the first place.
> 
> I have always been fairly good with speech when I have to be, I have a low tone and can have a blank facial expression. Something that she rarely (if ever) saw when we were together, even when arguing.
> 
> its clear she does not like this.


She didn't like it because she had you hooked. To see you not care let her know her plan B was dissolving. 

Remember anyone can say I love you

A man can beat sh!t out of his wife and still say he loves her afterwards. 

All I'm seeing you post about her is talk talk talk. Its the actions that count.

All shes doing is incessant texting, NO HEAVY LIFTING(Hell not even caring) and still going on the trip. 

The more you 180, the more you detach, the more you'll be able to reason and see clearly. Theres so much toxin there man, you need a clean break, and then back on the market.


----------



## Chris22

Kasler said:


> She didn't like it because she had you hooked. To see you not care let her know her plan B was dissolving.
> 
> Remember anyone can say I love you
> 
> A man can beat sh!t out of his wife and still say he loves her afterwards.
> 
> All I'm seeing you post about her is talk talk talk. Its the actions that count.
> 
> All shes doing is incessant texting, NO HEAVY LIFTING(Hell not even caring) and still going on the trip.
> 
> The more you 180, the more you detach, the more you'll be able to reason and see clearly. Theres so much toxin there man, you need a clean break, and then back on the market.


Well said. Its all true. 

I suppose I held on because there is/was an amazing person in there somewhere. 

Maybe she is gone, maybe not. If she won't show her face I won't hang around forever.

Thanks guys, some very good support here.

Edit** Don't know if anyone has considered it, but its been suggested it might be worth working on things under the pretence that maybe I will "think" about letting her go.

A mate of mine mentioned this, I personally am not too sure, sounds like a recipe for severe irritation at a later date. However a lot of the advice I received here I wouldn't have thought of myself, and much of it has helped me to get back on the right track. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I think you should consider going with her, but with prior understanding that she needs to hold back a bit: no running off, no disappearing, no falling down drunk, etc.


----------



## Chris22

Shaggy said:


> I think you should consider going with her, but with prior understanding that she needs to hold back a bit: no running off, no disappearing, no falling down drunk, etc.


I considered it. But its a pain, booking hotel, money for travel, beer money, finding a friend to go with, dealing with her and her friends who know I'm only there to check up on her. Would probably go down like a burning house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

......getting drunk and being arrested for beating up OM....


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Exactly. It's not like you're back together and would be staying together in the same room etc... Which just goes to show how her displays of regret are pretty hollow.


----------



## Chris22

Almostrecovered said:


> ......getting drunk and being arrested for beating up OM....


Wishful thinking, he's an accomplished MMA fighter.



WorkingOnMe said:


> Exactly. It's not like you're back together and would be staying together in the same room etc... Which just goes to show how her displays of regret are pretty hollow.


If I went I'm pretty sure I would be able to convince her to stay in the same room. She seemed to have no problem with me going.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

Chris22 said:


> Well said. Its all true.
> 
> I suppose I held on because there is/was an amazing person in there somewhere.
> 
> Maybe she is gone, maybe not. If she won't show her face I won't hang around forever.
> 
> Thanks guys, some very good support here.
> 
> Edit** *Don't know if anyone has considered it, but its been suggested it might be worth working on things under the pretence that maybe I will "think" about letting her go.*
> 
> A mate of mine mentioned this, I personally am not too sure, sounds like a recipe for severe irritation at a later date. However a lot of the advice I received here I wouldn't have thought of myself, and much of it has helped me to get back on the right track.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it is an absolutely awful idea.

You both know she was going for a hookup and you know each other know.

I've been there. When my wife was cheating I knew where she was and she was with him. It hurt then and it still hurts now, even though we reconciled.

I tod her not to go, she told lies. All the usual stuff. But giving her permission, or looking like I was going to, would have sent totally the wrong message.

Stay ones sage and don't play games with the truth. That would surrender any high moral ground.

What she wants is totally unacceptable.


----------



## Jonesey

Honestly what do you really want? i mean she is going on that weekend.Thats a given.Whats your plan when she gets back?..Just dont understand you


----------



## Chris22

Jonesey said:


> Honestly what do you really want? i mean she is going on that weekend.Thats a given.Whats your plan when she gets back?..Just dont understand you


I want to be with her, well, who she was and might still be. But she has to do some of the work or what's the point? However I'm not willing to risk my happiness to reconcile if I don't think that she is sorry for what she has done. 

I admit, I actually have to ask myself "why" sometimes. I'm not upset anymore... And I know that I could find someone else. 

Its very odd.

My daughter became my primary concern when I found out she was texting another man. From then on It wasn't a case of "I must get her back"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Have you made it clear that you will done if she goes on that trip. That begging or apologies will not cut it later on?


----------



## Chris22

Yes, very much so. I will not tolerate her going away without me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

Chris22 said:


> Yes, very much so. I will not tolerate her going away without me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But you are only pretty sure that she will stay in the same room if you go on the trip with her? The fact that you can say that means that even if you do go, you have so little commitment from her that she will be free to vanish anytime that she needs to so that she can be with the other man (OM).

On this trip you are the unwanted third wheel and the OM is part of the plan. This is the OM and your wife's trip, not you and your wife's. Her going on this needs to be a deal breaker. If her marriage means so little to her that she will not cancel going on this trip, then you do not have a marraige worth saving. You cannot have a marriage of one or three. It works only with two.


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> Yes, very much so. I will not tolerate her going away without me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One of you main problem is.YOU HAVE NO PLAN..


----------



## CH

Jonesey said:


> One of you main problem is.YOU HAVE NO PLAN..


I thought he did have a plan, if she goes he's filing for divorce, did his plans change?


----------



## Chris22

cheatinghubby said:


> I thought he did have a plan, if she goes he's filing for divorce, did his plans change?


I do. its as you say, If she goes away, the divorce papers will be filed, if not before. The thought of going with her to butlins is just that, a thought.

The plan is divorce, until I decide otherwise. 

Doesn't look like she's making any commitments any time soon, other than her amazingly important commitments to getting drunk and betraying me.

Id say the plan looks to be sound.


----------



## Kasler

^ Technically thats a course of action. Realistically, not a plan. The Ball is still in her court. Eventhough you've given an ultimatum the terms of it depend on her actions, therefore she still has control of the marriage. If she came and said a bunch of nice words and said shes not going on the trip can you still say you'd D?

You have resolve, but its not complete. 

The complete resolve is much harder to achieve. When a BS has that they don't need to wait on the wayward, they do what they gotta do. 

I remember one BS, his wife said to give her a few weeks to think about things, he said papers being filed at end of week, period. 

She thought he was bluffing, but he followed through. She then came to him saying all the right things, but he knew it was too late and went through the D process. He figured that the fact that she had to see if he was bluffing before she would commit, was a deal breaker on the reconciliation.

When a wayward sees that their BS is holding off or waiting on them, their fog brains will believe it a bluff no matter how severely the BS threatens. 

Problem is at the end of the matter, and the BS doesn't follow through, his standing will compromised and her affair validated even further. 

Its a vicious gamble, but all cheaters take it.


----------



## Jonesey

cheatinghubby said:


> I thought he did have a plan, if she goes he's filing for divorce, did his plans change?


If he had a plan.He would have filed already..Divorce papers cab be withdrawn.

It has never been any consciences for her
no matter what she does.. She cries Chris caves in..Non of this has come with a major price for his wife yet..


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> I do. its as you say, If she goes away, the divorce papers will be filed, if not before. The thought of going with her to butlins is just that, a thought.
> 
> The plan is divorce, until I decide otherwise.
> 
> Doesn't look like she's making any commitments any time soon, other than her amazingly important commitments to getting drunk and betraying me.
> 
> Id say the plan looks to be sound.


Have you shown her divorce paper yet?


----------



## Chris22

^ True. I don't deny its more a course of action as opposed to a plan.

If she doesn't go to butlins, then there is room to manoeuvre, if she does. Then there is a divorce.


----------



## MattMatt

Chris22 said:


> ^ True. I don't deny its more a course of action as opposed to a plan.
> 
> If she doesn't go to butlins, then there is room to manoeuvre, if she does. Then there is a divorce.


Good luck, mate. Hope it works out for you.


----------



## Chris22

Jonesey said:


> If he had a plan.He would have filed already..Divorce papers cab be withdrawn.
> 
> It has never been any consciences for her
> no matter what she does.. She cries Chris caves in..Non of this has come with a major price for his wife yet..


As said earlier, a divorce in the UK is £340. I will file when i have the money. I will file, that was the plan. 



Jonesey said:


> Have you shown her divorce paper yet?


Yes I have, she didn't like it.


----------



## Kasler

^ Prob is those aren't consequences, which compromises your ultimatum that you gave her.

If you're going to reconcile, it'd be best it happens *before* she bangs Ian. 

Therefore if you want any fog knocking out of you'd want it about now. 

You're gonna have to take action, or shes just gonna take the gamble and then you're forced to go from there.


----------



## Chris22

Kasler said:


> ^ Prob is those aren't consequences, which compromises your ultimatum that you gave her.
> 
> If you're going to reconcile, it'd be best it happens *before* she bangs Ian.
> 
> Therefore if you want any fog knocking out of you'd want it about now.
> 
> You're gonna have to take action, or shes just gonna take the gamble and then you're forced to go from there.


Yes, this is why i'm frustrated. Stuck in a no man's land because of trivial paperwork issues.

If she sleeps with ian (which to me is going to butlins) then there is nothing to work on.

Will be heading down the bank in the morning, may have to use the credit card, but sod it. Has to be done.


----------



## Jonesey

Chris22 said:


> As said earlier, a divorce in the UK is £340. I will file when i have the money. I will file, that was the plan.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I have, she didn't like it.


And yet she is going right? Do you really need more opinion how little she value you?

The truth is as long Ian is around you two want have a marriage.No matter what,you seem to think


----------



## seasalt

Chris,

I was going to re-affirm what I said in an earlier post that she must be made to completely understand your position and intention to divorce if she goes on her weekend. It appears by your post #194 that you have come to hold that stance.

I would like to suggest that somehow between now and next month when the trip is planned that you find a way to give her the effect of what she will be throwing away if she goes. The packing of her stuff, the harsh words and the ignoring of her calls and texts should be adjusted to treat her in some way that shows her you love her and would appreciate it if she would show her love for you.

I think the recent tears and affirmations that she wants to be with you are at the moment surface deep. Tell her that you need more than her words, you will need to see her actions.


----------



## Chris22

seasalt said:


> Chris,
> 
> I was going to re-affirm what I said in an earlier post that she must be made to completely understand your position and intention to divorce if she goes on her weekend. It appears by your post #194 that you have come to hold that stance.
> 
> I would like to suggest that somehow between now and next month when the trip is planned that you find a way to give her the effect of what she will be throwing away if she goes. The packing of her stuff, the harsh words and the ignoring of her calls and texts should be adjusted to treat her in some way that shows her you love her and would appreciate it if she would show her love for you.
> 
> I think the recent tears and affirmations that she wants to be with you are at the moment surface deep. Tell her that you need more than her words, you will need to see her actions.


I have tried this, I was very hopeful of it, thinking "maybe if she sees me properly before butlins she wont want to go" This however seems impossible. All that she asks is "so what about butlins" EVERY time, without fail.

Its all she cares about. And I have only one answer. "I don't want you to go"

If I was to say "ok then, go, I'm sure she will work through it" she would be back straight away, She would never mention any of this again. It would be swept under the rug.

She cannot be trusted right now, maybe not ever. She is a poison. If i give her an inch, she will respond by taking away all of my dignity bit by bit. I will not tolerate a third party in my marriage.

Its a nice idea mate, and I thankyou for helping. But I just cant see how we could get to that stage without at least one of us having ulterior motives.


----------



## the guy

I wish I could hit the "like" button twice.


----------



## oneMOreguy

the guy said:


> I wish I could hit the "like" button twice.


...there...I did it for ya.......

.....but its not that he doesn't want her to go......its that his boundary, for the marriage to continue, is for her to not go to this event at which the OM will be present. Its now up to her to decide if she wants the marriage to continue or not.


----------



## The Middleman

Chris22 said:


> Shaggy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should consider going with her, but with prior understanding that she needs to hold back a bit: no running off, no disappearing, no falling down drunk, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I considered it. But its a pain, booking hotel, money for travel, beer money, finding a friend to go with, dealing with her and her friends who know I'm only there to check up on her. Would probably go down like a burning house.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Great suggestion by Shaggy! If I were you, that is exactly what I would do. Tell her:
"I'm your husband and I've decided I'm going with you. And I'm going to be with you 24/7 just like a married couple should be."

If she doesn't like it,screw her and her friends, this is your prerogative as a husband, go anyway. Look, you are willing to sacrifice a divorce, what do you have to loose? Spend the money and go.


----------



## Jonesey

The Middleman said:


> Great suggestion by Shaggy! If I were you, that is exactly what I would do. Tell her:
> "I'm your husband and I've decided I'm going with you. And I'm going to be with you 24/7 just like a married couple should be."
> 
> If she doesn't like it,screw her and her friends, this is your prerogative as a husband, go anyway. Look, you are willing to sacrifice a divorce, what do you have to loose? Spend the money and go.


You people seem to forget.This is not about him coming with here.She cheated with a guy who will be there. She has moved out of the house.Lives with her mom.And seriously don't give a crap about his feelings and the marriage..This problem wont go away just because he goes with her.


----------



## MattMatt

Jonesey said:


> You people seem to forget.This is not about him coming with here.She cheated with a guy who will be there. She has moved out of the house.Lives with her mom.And seriously don't give a crap about his feelings and the marriage..This problem wont go away just because he goes with her.


Usually Butlins is a nice, fun place for family holidays, with good live entertainment.

But when they do their "adult" weekends, it becomes Cheaterville-on-Sea, instead. Not good.


----------



## Shaggy

Why would you need someone to go with? You'd be with her, all the time, like foam on warm beer.


----------



## Acabado

You are at a crossroad. This travel is not a travel. It is what might mak the tone of your whole marriage. If she goes there and doesn't get her sorry a$$ dumped you marriage will be a nightmare.
This travel is not a travel.
She's inmature and selfish, she's a case of arrested development. She has you painted as a father who don't allow her to do what she pleases, who put curfew. She pushes the boundaires like a teenager. She manipulates, she drops chochodrile tears. She wqo't give up. It worked in the past. She believes she will go nad she will manage to manipulate to stay anyway because she can. It's "almost" irrelevant whether she intends to f'ck OM there or just party.
This travel is not a travel. It's a test. The most important. Also for you.


----------



## dogman

Chris22 said:


> I considered it. But its a pain, booking hotel, money for travel, beer money, finding a friend to go with, dealing with her and her friends who know I'm only there to check up on her. Would probably go down like a burning house.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



If you go it will give her the opportunity to play games. She will disappear and you will wonder forever what happened because she will not be honest and she will be falling down drunk as an excuse.

Who wants to be a babysitter for their wife, all her friends will have no respect for you watching her and freaking out every time she wanders off. 

Read Feeling Bads post, it doesn't take long for bad stuff to go down.


----------



## Jonesey

dogman said:


> If you go it will give her the opportunity to play games. She will disappear and you will wonder forever what happened because she will not be honest and she will be falling down drunk as an excuse.
> 
> * Who wants to be a babysitter for their wife,* all her friends will have no respect for you watching her and freaking out every time she wanders off.
> 
> Read Feeling Bads post, it doesn't take long for bad stuff to go down.


Sadly the bolded statement is what will happen,all thru there marriage if OP do sent learn to put his foot DOWN NOW..


----------



## Kasler

Don't go on the trip.

Come on guys, its not about him going on the trip with her and being her warden, thats stupid and besides the point.

The point is going on trip has a higher priority than the marriage

She shouldn't be going at all. 

No compromise, no negotiation.


----------



## the guy

The point is she cheated. Even going to the store would be an issue with me, much less a weekend away.


----------



## Kasler

^ That too, so coming to some compromise so she can still GET WHAT SHE WANTS is hardly an answer, and I'm surprised to see it coming from TAM.

The cheating is important but based on the couple that can be worked on.

However her putting a vacation above her husband and marriage is definitely a deal breaker and you can't get past something like that.

Its like imagine being home sick. Like so sick you can't get out of bed to even use bathroom, and your wife goes to a midnight film release with her friends instead of taking care of you.

An extreme example, but the sentiment behind the actions is the same.


----------



## Acabado

the guy said:


> The point is she cheated. Even going to the store would be an issue with me, much less a weekend away.


Exactly, the mere fact she comtemplates this travel as a possibility so soon after destroy her marriage (at least the old marriage) is so telling. She can't be bothered wuith any consequence. It tell you cheating is not something she did, it's who she is. Any "normal" WW simply would forget about traveling to OM's city just after being busted or at least would admit it's a horrible idea once confronted by her BH. What's her reaction, to ger rebellious, to be defiant. It's a window to your future.


----------



## dogman

Kasler said:


> Don't go on the trip.
> 
> Come on guys, its not about him going on the trip with her and being her warden, thats stupid and besides the point.
> 
> The point is going on trip has a higher priority than the marriage
> 
> She shouldn't be going at all.
> 
> No compromise, no negotiation.


 I agree completely. It just sounds like hes ready to go if he has to. It will be horrible. 

The line needs to be drawn for her to not go, end of story.

I'm just afraid he will cave after she goes and gets back and swears nothing happened and she misses him and he was right she shouldn't have gone because it sucked without him. (yeah right)


----------



## Jonesey

MattMatt said:


> Usually Butlins is a nice, fun place for family holidays, with good live entertainment.
> 
> But when they do their "adult" weekends, it becomes Cheaterville-on-Sea, instead. Not good.


i heard about does "adult weekends" when i lived in Dublin.But have never gone or been there.


----------



## Kasler

Yeah I'm thinking theres a small chance he may cave in. See a spouse feels the squeeze when they have no control over whats happening. When they've been served and bank accounts are being, and split they wake up. Right now shes the deciding factor.

Hes not in a good position to really enforce any consequences since the ultimatum was about her trip. 

Ball is still in her court. 

The main thing I'm worried about is that the steely resolve and cool anger has a month to subside, and while I'm not sure like any BS hes probably had moments of intense sadness about it from time to time.

I know first hand. My fiance cheated on me about 7 months away from the wedding. The first week I was positive I was calling it off. I was livid and mere mention of her was enough to put me in a bad mood. 

Fast forward 3 weeks.

I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep more than 2 or 3 hours, my boss was sympathetic and I took a leave.

My anger was completely replaced by a sense of loss, and I was pretty much a puddle of myself then. I missed talking to her, I missed having her next to me in bed, and I wanted her to hold me and run her fingers through my hair so badly I cried myself to sleep each night like a big ass baby. 

These loss moments happened frequently to me. My rage would come back for a day or so, but soon enough I'd be sad again.

Thats when she came back, spouted lies and everything I wanted to hear, and I jumped at the chance to have her back.

That was probably the biggest near miss decision of my life.(Long story, I really gotta make my thread) 

Thing is theres a month for her to intertwine herself in his emotions, so we gotta wait and see.


----------



## The Middleman

Shaggy said:


> Why would you need someone to go with? You'd be with her, all the time, like foam on warm beer.


I agree! Why make this easy for her or let it be a fun time. He's miserable, why should the "wife" who is causing her grief be happy (sorry if this sounds callous or childish). Chris should go and spend every minute with her. He is her husband, who is going to say anything about it? Maybe if she sees that he is "manning up" and taking charge, she just might change her attitude. 

Look, he was going to divorce her if she goes, so there is nothing to loose and just may something to gain. Even if they don't reconcile, he has the satisfaction of having f-ed up her vacation.


----------



## Kasler

^ No the point is both of them shouldn't be going at all?

She cheated on him, betrayed his trust, and hes supposed to compromise with her?

You'd have him be a cuckold. 

If a man's wife said she was going to go to a male strip club and get wasted and he he was against it, he wouldn't be saying "I'll go to0". 

He'd be shutting it down, which is what Chris is doing.


----------



## Chris22

Hi everyone.

I have betrayed myself... I feel like I have lost every bit of my self respect.

I went out drinking last night with some friends, Figured its been a long while since i have actually had a night that I enjoy. Bumped into the girl that I met a week or so ago... You know where this is going.

I told her to meet me in the car park at 01:30, It was 22:30 when I said this. My intention was to tell her that I needed to sort my head out, that I was a mess and didn't know what I wanted. That nothing would be happening between us.

I met her at 01:30, as planned. By this time I was heavily intoxicated. I said my piece, as planned. But it didn't stop there.

I made the first move, I don't know why. We ended up going back to her place, and you can guess the rest.

I guess the feeling of being wanted was too much for me to handle, I don't want a relationship with this woman, I get on with her, but I'm not even that attracted to her.

I hate myself right now, and I don't know what to do...

I didn't think I was capable of being this person, I have never done anything like this before.

Any replies would be appreciated, however unpleasant.


----------



## Chris989

Yikes.

First; tell your wife if she isn't too "busy" at Butlins.

Second; take some time out from all of this if you can.

Third; don't beat yourself up, but have a think about it all.


----------



## Kasler

Chris22 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I have betrayed myself... I feel like I have lost every bit of my self respect.
> 
> I went out drinking last night with some friends, Figured its been a long while that i have actually had a night that I enjoy. Bumped into the girl that I met a week or so ago... You know where this is going.
> 
> I told her to meet me in the car park at 01:30, It was 22:30 when I said this. My intention was to tell her that I needed to sort my head out, that I was a mess and didn't know what I wanted. That nothing would be happening between us.
> 
> I met her at 01:30, as planned. By this time I was heavily intoxicated. I said my piece, as planned. But it didn't stop there.
> 
> I made the first move, I don't know why. We ended up going back to her place, and you can guess the rest.
> 
> I guess the feeling of being wanted was too much for me to handle, I don't want a relationship with this woman, I get on with her, but I'm not even that attracted to her.
> 
> I hate myself right now, and I don't know what to do...
> 
> I didn't think I was capable of being this person, I have never done anything like this before.
> 
> Any replies would be appreciated, however unpleasant.


You slipped up. 

For a long while you've been emotionally and sexually starved, and combining that with alcohol was a bad idea from the start. 

In fact it wasn't the alcohol at all, your mental state was in a bad place and you shouldn't have gone at all.

Sounds rough, but don't worry about it.

If you went out trolling for ass looking for some chick to just take your sexual frustration out on, then that'd be a problem. 

Apologize to the woman you slept with, and clarify the situation. Say you were vulnerable and shouldn't have made a move on her with the situation you're going through.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Chris22 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I have betrayed myself... I feel like I have lost every bit of my self respect.
> 
> I went out drinking last night with some friends, Figured its been a long while that i have actually had a night that I enjoy. Bumped into the girl that I met a week or so ago... You know where this is going.
> 
> I told her to meet me in the car park at 01:30, It was 22:30 when I said this. My intention was to tell her that I needed to sort my head out, that I was a mess and didn't know what I wanted. That nothing would be happening between us.
> 
> I met her at 01:30, as planned. By this time I was heavily intoxicated. I said my piece, as planned. But it didn't stop there.
> 
> I made the first move, I don't know why. We ended up going back to her place, and you can guess the rest.
> 
> I guess the feeling of being wanted was too much for me to handle, I don't want a relationship with this woman, I get on with her, but I'm not even that attracted to her.
> 
> I hate myself right now, and I don't know what to do...
> 
> I didn't think I was capable of being this person, I have never done anything like this before.
> 
> Any replies would be appreciated, however unpleasant.



The drink had nothing to do with you playing slap with another woman. You are well aware of the boundaries and your sex antics have effectivly lost any moral high ground you had. Tell your wife what you did and go though with the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kasler

Eli-Zor said:


> The drink had nothing to do with you playing slap with another woman. You are well aware of the boundaries and your sex antics have effectivly lost any moral high ground you had. Tell your wife what you did and go though with the divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No thats the wrong move. While he did slip up, his wife still has no right to information of his dealings and whereabouts as long as shes outside of the marriage

Also this isn't about moral high ground either.

This isn't a witch hunt.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Seriously bad, revenge affair. At least do it with a hot woman or one you are really attracted to. Come on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## theroad

Chris22 said:


> That sounds very sensible.
> 
> The D will be getting sent to the courts either tomorrow or wednesday... i don't honestly know how long it will take after that.
> 
> My STBXW doesn't know i'm talking to this girl, Very few people do. Its of course private messaging and she doesn't have access to my account.
> 
> I don't intend to stoop to her level, for now we are just meeting up for a coffee or something, If anything maybe just to gain a new friend. If feelings get stronger in the coming weeks I would most likely be honest and tell my ex that I am seeing someone, not for revenge, not to gloat, just so she knows where she stands.


You are still married. You should not be talking, texting, or anything until the D is final. You are now at the beginning of an EA starting.

You married a cheater.

Now you are becoming friends with a girl that is willing to date a married man.

Why get divorced?

All you are doing is changing one cheater for another cheater.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Kasler said:


> No thats the wrong move. While he did slip up, his wife still has no right to information of his dealings and whereabouts as long as shes outside of the marriage
> 
> Also this isn't about moral high ground either.
> 
> This isn't a witch hunt.


Your the only one who mentioned its a witch hunt. 

He has now commited adultery and regardless of any reason given by himself or anyone else thats exactly what it is . To imply that he should not tell his wife of his ONS is intentionaly practicing deceit . 

If his wife turns around and says she wants to recommit whats the next piece of advice ? Lie by omission , tell her when he is ready!

Its simple , he messed up and he HAS lost the moral high ground. Tell the truth, take the consequence and deal with the fallout as best as you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris22

I'm going to have to tell this girl that what I did was wrong. Its not going to be nice, She will hate it but it has to be done.

I'm still going to file for divorce in the week.

I feel like I have to tell my wife ASAP. We were supposed to be meeting up tonight so she could spend some time with our daughter and afterwards we were going to go somewhere and have a chat. Obviously what I have done changes everything, I don't know how to approach this.


----------



## Chaparral

Chris, have you read Married Man Sex Life yet?


----------



## Eli-Zor

Telling her will be hard , her reaction is likley to be blame you and go off to the holiday camp and meet the OM. No doubt her family will find out soon thereafter.

You can only hope she sees herself losing you and uses this as an opportunity to come back to the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris22

No I have not. 

Books by Athol Kay | Married Man Sex Life

is this what you are referring to?


----------



## Kasler

Eli-Zor said:


> Your the only one who mentioned its a witch hunt.
> 
> He has now commited adultery and regardless of any reason given by himself or anyone else thats exactly what it is . To imply that he should not tell his wife of his ONS is intentionaly practicing deceit .
> 
> If his wife turns around and says she wants to recommit whats the next piece of advice ? Lie by omission , tell her when he is ready!
> 
> Its simple , he messed up and he HAS lost the moral high ground. Tell the truth, take the consequence and deal with the fallout as best as you can.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Its not a lie by omission, its none of her business, period.

If he wants to tell her, okay but theres really no obligation. If he chooses to reconcile then he'd have to tell her.

You need to see the big picture.

All I can see is that this incident is gonna kill his resolve, and in her fog brain she'll seize the moment and draft him into the fold of cuckold hood. 

In fact she'll now feel even more justified to go bang Ian.
And will be able to guilt him in every argument they have leading him to be submissive. The current marriage crossroad has to be ironed out first before more side roads get added on. 

Shes looking for any excuse to be 'right' and rationalize every so as soon as you give her one shes gonna run with it and go deeper into her fog.

Things ain't so black and white.

The potential fallout of what could happen isn't worth him having quick way to assuage his guilt, and have his wife beat him up over it because he feels he deserves it.


----------



## Chaparral

Chris22 said:


> No I have not.
> 
> Books by Athol Kay | Married Man Sex Life
> 
> is this what you are referring to?


Yes, you can download it from amazon or have it delivered. It is an absolute must for every man to read.


----------



## Chris22

Kasler said:


> Its not a lie by omission, its none of her business, period.
> 
> If he wants to tell her, okay but theres really no obligation. If he chooses to reconcile then he'd have to tell her.


She tortured me emotionally, it hurt, and it was horrible.

But I have slept with another woman, its worse than how this whole thing started. And its going to destroy her.

If were to ever reconcile I would of course tell her, even if we don't ill still probably tell her.



chapparal said:


> Yes, you can download it from amazon or have it delivered. It is an absolute must for every man to read.


Thankyou for the tip. I will give it a shot.


----------



## Eli-Zor

It will be a lot worse if she decides to reconcile and finds out he messed around. My advice stands , tell your wife , chose your words and timing, do not let her brow breat you nor enter into a debate or argument . Be matter of fact and move the conversation on , your zero tolerance of her going to the camp must be maintained.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris22

Eli-Zor said:


> It will be a lot worse if she decides to reconsile and finds out he messed around. My advice stands , tell your wife , chose your words and timing, do not let her brow breat you nor enter into a debate or argument . Be matter of fact and move the conversation on , your zero tolerance of her going to the camp must be maintained.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I understand. I'm still planning to go ahead with the divorce, she will not change her mind about going to the camp.


----------



## Chaparral

Should he tell her of his affair before the camp date?


----------



## Kasler

Chris22 said:


> She tortured me emotionally, it hurt, and it was horrible.
> 
> But I have slept with another woman, its worse than how this whole thing started. And its going to destroy her.
> 
> If were to ever reconcile I would of course tell her, even if we don't ill still probably tell her.
> 
> 
> 
> Thankyou for the tip. I will give it a shot.



Thats your choice man, go with it. I'm just worried about it leading her further into fog land and you thinking you deserve each and every lump she gives. 

When both partners screw up and have affairs they both gotta deal with it as a whole. Not just piling on whoever's affair was more recent.


----------



## Chaparral

Chris22 said:


> Yes I understand. I'm still planning to go ahead with the divorce, she will not change her mind about going to the camp.


Surely, stranger things have happened.


----------



## Chris22

chapparal said:


> Should he tell her of his affair before the camp date?


Word might well get out, and reach my wife before then anyway. The woman I spent the night with has many friends, they like to talk.

They are very well known around the town and constantly make everyone's business their own.

Not saying that this girl (Amy) would cause problems herself, but her friends might.



Kasler said:


> Thats your choice man, go with it. I'm just worried about it leading her further into fog land and you thinking you deserve each and every lump she gives.
> 
> When both partners screw up and have affairs they both gotta deal with it as a whole. Not just piling on whoever's affair was more recent.


I worry about this too. Problem is she does not, and never has considered her actions to be an affair. When I mentioned the words "emotional affair" a few weeks back, she got very defensive.


----------



## Eli-Zor

chapparal said:


> Should he tell her of his affair before the camp date?


There is no good timing here. I think he should force a camp decision from her within the next few days , if she does not cancel and commit to the marriage he files for D . Then meet up with her and tell the truth . I am guessing some of his friends are aware of what happened and it wont be long before the information gets out. You need to get past this phase asap, the longer you withhold the truth the more your wife will think you were playing her.


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/size


----------



## Chris22

Eli-Zor said:


> There is no good timing here. I think he should force a camp decision from her within the next few days , if she does not cancel and commit to the marriage he files for D . Then meet up with her and tell the truth . I am guessing some of his friends are aware of what happened and it wont be long before the information gets out. You need to get past this asap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/size




Forced a camp decision last week. Answer was "I'm going" 

She will not listen to reason, she will not compromise.

This is why I'm filing for divorce.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Chris22 said:


> Forced a camp decision last week. Answer was "I'm going"
> 
> She will not listen to reason, she will not compromise.
> 
> This is why I'm filing for divorce.



Then tell her today and get it over with. Let her know your moving on and met someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kasler

Chris22 said:


> Forced a camp decision last week. Answer was "I'm going"
> 
> She will not listen to reason, she will not compromise.
> 
> This is why I'm filing for divorce.


Then theres truly no hope with her.

If a vacation has a higher priority than your marriage, I've never even heard of that before.


----------



## MattMatt

If that is her real name, edit it out now, mate!


----------



## Chris22

Eli-Zor said:


> Then tell her today and get it over with. Let her know your moving on and met someone else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would rather get the D over with, Telling her now will cause massive anger. This runs the risk of the D getting dragged out in court or something ridiculous like that.



MattMatt said:


> If that is her real name, edit it out now, mate!


Don't worry mate, its not, none of the names i use are real.


----------



## Kasler

^ That would be best. The sooner this retarded matter is dealt with the better.


----------



## Chris22

Kasler said:


> ^ That would be best. The sooner this retarded matter is dealt with the better.


Agreed. 

Its sad, but it would appear that neither of us were truly ready for marriage.

Divorce is for the best.


----------



## MattMatt

Chris22 said:


> Would rather get the D over with, Telling her now will cause massive anger. This runs the risk of the D getting dragged out in court or something ridiculous like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry mate, its not, none of the names i use are real.


That's good. Only the other day someone accidentally used not only his own name but the name of his WW!

By the way, Amy could not have been part of a set-up by your wife, could she?


----------



## Shaggy

I would tell her - BUT - I would do it not as a guilty man pleading for forgiveness. I would do it as a man who's wife had a choice to make: Marriage + him or Butlins+wild weekend+etc

And she chose Butlins + wild weekend + etc.

And it left you realizing the marriage was done. So you chose to do this thing with the OW. Do not ask for forgiveness - Do admit it left you feeling hollow and crappy because you realize how much you are hurting because the marriage is over. 

It's ok to tell your wife that was only a ONS and you're not planning on hooking up again with her, that you know you've got the get your head around rebuilding yourself after the D and you won't be going down a rebound relationship.

the point of all this is to both take responsibility for your choice to hookup, BUT to also try to use it too to shake her up to realize how real this is and that you weren't and aren't planning to back down on Butlins. I think she still believes that when she comes back that she can turn on the tears and charm and still be in the marriage.

Do not say you slept with the woman because of her going to Butlins as in it's her fault. Instead you chose to sleep with the woman because you accepted that the two of you were not going to agree about Butlins and neither one of you backed down, so you knew D was going to happen.


----------



## Chris22

MattMatt said:


> That's good. Only the other day someone accidentally used not only his own name but the name of his WW!
> 
> By the way, Amy could not have been part of a set-up by your wife, could she?


Very unlikely, Different group of friends.


----------



## The Middleman

Kasler said:


> ^ No the point is both of them shouldn't be going at all?


You are correct, that is what *should* be happening, but I have a feeling it won't.


Kasler said:


> She cheated on him, betrayed his trust, and hes supposed to compromise with her?
> 
> You'd have him be a cuckold.


No, I don't want him to be a cuckold, I want him to man up, be a ball buster and ruin the vacation. Be around her 24/7 like a fly on Sh1t so the OM can't get anywhere near her. And who will say anything against him or try to stop him, after all, he's her husband.



Kasler said:


> If a man's wife said she was going to go to a male strip club and get wasted and he he was against it, he wouldn't be saying "I'll go to0".
> 
> He'd be shutting it down, which is what Chris is doing.


The way I've read his posts, he hasn't shut her down, he just said you go and I'm divorcing you. That's an ultimatum, not a shut down. A shut down is preventing her from going, which I don't know how he can do it short of kidnapping her (which is not a good idea). I'm proposing him going to prevent his wife and the OM from hooking up.


----------



## Chris22

Shaggy said:


> I would tell her - BUT - I would do it not as a guilty man pleading for forgiveness. I would do it as a man who's wife had a choice to make: Marriage + him or Butlins+wild weekend+etc
> 
> And she chose Butlins + wild weekend + etc.
> 
> And it left you realizing the marriage was done. So you chose to do this thing with the OW. Do not ask for forgiveness - Do admit it left you feeling hollow and crappy because you realize how much you are hurting because the marriage is over.
> 
> It's ok to tell your wife that was only a ONS and you're not planning on hooking up again with her, that you know you've got the get your head around rebuilding yourself after the D and you won't be going down a rebound relationship.
> 
> the point of all this is to both take responsibility for your choice to hookup, BUT to also try to use it too to shake her up to realize how real this is and that you weren't and aren't planning to back down on Butlins. I think she still believes that when she comes back that she can turn on the tears and charm and still be in the marriage.
> 
> Do not say you slept with the woman because of her going to Butlins as in it's her fault. Instead you chose to sleep with the woman because you accepted that the two of you were not going to agree about Butlins and neither one of you backed down, so you knew D was going to happen.


Wise words, I will give it my best attempt.

It will be hard of course. I'm still in love with her... And the knowledge of what I have done will turn her into a demon of sorts. There will be tears, screaming, shouting and possibly stuff thrown at me.


----------



## MattMatt

The Middleman said:


> You are correct, that is what *should* be happening, but I have a feeling it won't.
> 
> No, I don't want him to be a cuckold, I want him to man up, be a ball buster and ruin the vacation. Be around her 24/7 like a fly on Sh1t so the OM can't get anywhere near her. And who will say anything against him or try to stop him, after all, he's her husband.
> 
> 
> The way I've read his posts, he hasn't shut her down, he just said you go and I'm divorcing you. That's an ultimatum, not a shut down. A shut down is preventing her from going, which I don't know how he can do it short of kidnapping her (which is not a good idea). I'm proposing him going to prevent his wife and the OM from hooking up.


I think it has got to the stage when Chris is thinking: "I just can't find it in me to give a rat's arse any more. Ian, my friend, you want her? You have her, because she and me are done."


----------



## The Middleman

Chris22 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Its sad, but it would appear that neither of us were truly ready for marriage.
> 
> Divorce is for the best.


Only you can make that judgement. If you really feel in your heart of hearts that you married the wrong person, then move forward with divorce.

However, if you have any doubts about divorce ... if you feel that this marriage is worth saving ... then don't F-up again and continue with your plans to fight for wife and your marriage! Take no prisoners.


----------



## Chris22

MattMatt said:


> I think it has got to the stage when Chris is thinking: "I just can't find it in me to give a rat's arse any more. Ian, my friend, you want her? You have her, because she and me are done."


The people closest to me would agree with that.




The Middleman said:


> Only you can make that judgement. If you really feel in your heart of hearts that you married the wrong person, then move forward with divorce.
> 
> However, if you have any doubts about divorce ... if you feel that this marriage is worth saving ... then don't F-up again and continue with your plans to fight for wife and your marriage! Take no prisoners.


I love her. I always have. 

I cannot fight any more though, she will rugsweep and destroy the man I am. 

It will happen over a period of years, as these things become more common.


----------



## The Middleman

MattMatt said:


> I think it has got to the stage when Chris is thinking: "I just can't find it in me to give a rat's arse any more. Ian, my friend, you want her? You have her, because she and me are done."


MM, I just don't see it that way, and maybe it's the New York Italian in me that says he needs to go there and says "Ian, you scum bag, if you want her, you have to go through me first".


----------



## The Middleman

Chris22 said:


> I love her. I always have.
> 
> I cannot fight any more though, she will rugsweep and destroy the man I am.
> 
> It will happen over a period of years, as these things become more common.


Sorry to hear that man .... It's clear that she's broke you. Best of luck my friend. The divorce is going to be no picnic either.


----------



## Chris22

The Middleman said:


> Sorry to hear that man .... It's clear that she's broke you. Best of luck my friend. The divorce is going to be no picnic either.


Thanks.

I cant imagine it being that hard to be honest. Emotionally it will tear at me many times. But the actual process its self should be fairly painless.

She will ruin my life... and through my sadness I would inevitably begin to ruin hers.

The man I am isn't much to be proud of at the moment, but there is good in me somewhere, and ill be damned if ill let her drain me of that.


----------



## Shaggy

Chris22 said:


> Wise words, I will give it my best attempt.
> 
> It will be hard of course. I'm still in love with her... And the knowledge of what I have done will turn her into a demon of sorts. There will be tears, screaming, shouting and possibly stuff thrown at me.


Actually it is good if she does react this way because it shows that she still cares and wants you. Indifference would be far far worse.

Your tactic now is to be a man and not defend your bad choice, and not to blame anyone for it either. Tell her you regret your choice, but you did it, you admit it, and you regret doing it. 

Your goal in all of this is shock her. Show her how really really real this is and how it's come to this. The new Chris isn't accepting her choices and he freely admits he made a bad choice himself. 

The new chris has now learned a life lesson, and realizes that's not the path he's going to go down. Don't argue with her etc. You aren't begging forgiveness - you are admitting your regret and terrible choice.


----------



## Shaggy

Chris22 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I cant imagine it being that hard to be honest. Emotionally it will tear at me many times. But the actual process its self should be fairly painless.
> 
> She will ruin my life... and through my sadness I would inevitably begin to ruin hers.
> 
> The man I am isn't much to be proud of at the moment, but there is good in me somewhere, and ill be damned if ill let her drain me of that.


Actually the man you are today is now wiser than the man you were yesterday. So that is something to be proud of - you've learned both that you made a bad choice, and you learned how to stand up and like a man admit it and move on.


----------



## Chris22

Shaggy said:


> Actually the man you are today is now wiser than the man you were yesterday. So that is something to be proud of - you've learned both that you made a bad choice, and you learned how to stand up and like a man admit it and move on.


True, that is some good that has come out of this tragedy.


----------



## dogman

I know this was a massive screw up but...you just took your power back. She took it away with all that she was doing. You maybe, subconsciously just sealed the deal for divorce, you knew you would cave after Butlins and now you took away that option.

Sorry about your family but it's her fault ultimately.


----------



## dogman

You never would have done this without the stress and rejection of the past weeks. Along with her refusal to stay home from the camp.

Also, no matter if she thinks it was an EA. the truth is the truth whether it's admits it or not.


----------



## Jonesey

I Realy wish people would get of there high horses.Especially in this case.

Giving this speach your still marriead.After his one night stand..

What marriage are you guys refering to?
Just courious.

OP´s ”Wife” Once left him for her puppy love, and then came back to him.

get´s mariead to Chirs. Creating a baby. time passes.And his ”wife” Ends up gone all night. claims nothing happend with Ian(The name of her puppy love) It was just a kiss*(yeah right)*

Moves out of the house all of a sudden. takes the child with her.

And keeps claiming the usual bull, you hear on TAM sadly every day.. She dosent know what she whants.Needs to figure things out. And more Yada yada blah blah blah..because that is what it is..

Starts wearing reviling cloths,She never did before.

And right know she is willing to throw her supposed marriage,just so she can go away for a weekend.Where magicly puppy love happens to be there.

But hey she atleast swears nothing will happen*sigh*

The sad truth in my opinion is that his ”wife" never let Ian go.So they have always been 3 in this sham of a marriage. OP
probably never realized it.

The mental abuse this womenhas put OP thrue is unbeliveble..

His only mistake is not listening and bolted for REAL..

Dont feel bad for what happened.. And please dont give her the courtesy to know it. You owe her s...t.

Pm me you email,and i will mail you a few thing´s you will need in the future..


----------



## Chris22

I have considered telling my wife what has happened. I feel she somewhat deserves to know. 

Besides her reaction might help me judge if there is anything left that is remotely worth fighting for. I guess it doesn't really matter... If she wasn't sleeping with Ian, she will be after i have told her.

Perhaps I should just sod all the honesty and GTFO quick. Sometimes I cant help but ask myself "Am I just being too honest in this approach?" I risk much by telling her.

If I am to tell her, tomorrow feels like the time.


----------



## Wazza

Chris22 said:


> I have considered telling my wife what has happened. I feel she somewhat deserves to know.
> 
> Besides her reaction might help me judge if there is anything left that is remotely worth fighting for.
> 
> Or shall I just **** all the honesty and GTFO quick. Sometimes I cant help but ask myself "Am I just being too honest in this approach?"
> 
> If I am to tell her, tomorrow feels like the time.


How would you feel if it was her, she didn't tell you, and you found out later?

I cannot see how you could possibly reconcile without telling her.


----------



## The Middleman

If you tell her .... and I think you should .... and she goes on that vacation without you being there? ..... Ian is going to be one busy dude. Just sayin'. You painted yourself into a corner ... You can't let her go alone.


----------



## Chris22

Wazza said:


> How would you feel if it was her, she didn't tell you, and you found out later?
> 
> I cannot see how you could possibly reconcile without telling her.


IF we were to reconcile yes. I would tell her, a marriage is about honesty and trust.

But I'm assuming that our marriage is heading for the bin anyway, This is the path that is most likely.

I'm asking peoples opinions on weather I should tell her. We will have to become friends, or at least civil to each other if we are to do what is right for our daughter. Lies will not help this.




The Middleman said:


> If you tell her .... and I think you should .... and she goes on that vacation without you being there? ..... Ian is going to be one busy dude. Just sayin'. You painted yourself into a corner ... You can't let her go alone.


Screw it, She's probably going to sleep with him at some point anyway. I have pretty much come to take this as fact. She will be going on that vacation. No stopping that.


----------



## Wazza

Chris22 said:


> IF we were to reconcile yes. I would tell her, a marriage is about honesty and trust.
> 
> But I'm assuming that our marriage is heading for the bin anyway, This is the path that is most likely.
> 
> I'm asking peoples opinions on weather I should tell her. We will have to become friends, or at least civil to each other if we are to do what is right for our daughter. Lies will not help this.


There's truth, there's lies and there's incomplete truth.

I think incomplete truth is acceptable in a relationship where there are limits on intimacy. I wouldn't lie if asked, but I would say "We are headed for divorce, it's over, my love life is a private matter, as is yours."

I feel so sad for you over all this. It sucks.


----------



## MattMatt

Chris22 said:


> I have considered telling my wife what has happened. I feel she somewhat deserves to know.
> 
> Besides her reaction might help me judge if there is anything left that is remotely worth fighting for. I guess it doesn't really matter... If she wasn't sleeping with Ian, she will be after i have told her.
> 
> Perhaps I should just sod all the honesty and GTFO quick. Sometimes I cant help but ask myself "Am I just being too honest in this approach?" I risk much by telling her.
> 
> If I am to tell her, tomorrow feels like the time.


And she deserves it... in what way, exactly? She left your marriage and thus nullified your contract with her.


----------



## Jonesey

If you are going to tell .Wait until after the vacation..


----------



## Chris22

Wazza said:


> There's truth, there's lies and there's incomplete truth.
> 
> I think incomplete truth is acceptable in a relationship where there are limits on intimacy. I wouldn't lie if asked, but I would say "We are headed for divorce, it's over, my love life is a private matter, as is yours."
> 
> I feel so sad for you over all this. It sucks.


I tend to agree, She doesn't need to know the in's and out's if we are to become friends one day.

You don't need to feel sad mate, Its awful yes, but I have screwed up pretty badly myself now, the whole thing is a mess.



MattMatt said:


> And she deserves it... in what way, exactly? She left your marriage and thus nullified your contract with her.


That's what I find myself thinking a lot of the time.



Jonesey said:


> If you are going to tell .Wait until after the vacation..


That's a long way off. Means a month of awkwardness, I wont pull the "I need some time" crap like she did on me.


----------



## Jonesey

Chris u have a PM


----------



## Chris22

So I told my wife what happened... She was shocked, she looked so sad. She didn't say anything for about 10 minutes... Then she asked about who she was, where we stayed, was she pretty, and what I think meant most to my wife, did I cuddle her and did it mean anything. 

I answered honestly and truthfully to all of her questions, although she didn't pry much. 

What happened next was where it got strange. She gave me a hug and cuddled up to me on the sofa... We talked for a little, about how we loved eachother and how we had lost eachothers trust. She said she wanted me back, and didn't care how. She only wants to be with me is what she said. 30 minutes later after driving to the shop we had sex in the car, and again after we got home. She stayed the night at my house. Sex in the morning and sex again a few hours ago.

What the hell is going on??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

It's called hysterical bonding. Look it up. But the real question is, and this is the test, is she still going to butlins?


----------



## snap

She's seen your value externally validated (and I hope you answered the woman was hot as hell).

It's odd, but some people are like that.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

snap said:


> She's seen your value externally validated (and I hope you answered the woman was hot as hell).
> 
> It's odd, but some people are like that.


Yes. This is a biological response. External validation of you as a mate ups your sex rank.


----------



## Eli-Zor

A validation as to why you should tell the truth, her fear of losing you may draw her back but if she goes on the camp ; finito.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60

Chris22 said:


> So I told my wife what happened... She was shocked, she looked so sad. She didn't say anything for about 10 minutes... Then she asked about who she was, where we stayed, was she pretty, and what I think meant most to my wife, did I cuddle her and did it mean anything.
> 
> I answered honestly and truthfully to all of her questions, although she didn't pry much.
> 
> What happened next was where it got strange. She gave me a hug and cuddled up to me on the sofa... We talked for a little, about how we loved eachother and how we had lost eachothers trust. She said she wanted me back, and didn't care how. She only wants to be with me is what she said. 30 minutes later after driving to the shop we had sex in the car, and again after we got home. She stayed the night at my house. Sex in the morning and sex again a few hours ago.
> 
> What the hell is going on??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She saw that you are really serious about moving on without her . It was a shock that she could not keep you on the line as the back-up plan while she went on her little single girl weekend with the OM.

She is trying to prove to herself that she is enough woman to keep you.

The big question is, does she still plan on going to the "party"? 

You just made it almost a sure thing that she will have sex with OM if she does go. Or maybe her reaction was a little cool because she has already had sex with him and she thinks you just evened the score, so to speak.

So what are you going to do when she says that she thinks she deserves her little fling since you already had one and when she gets back THEN you can work on the marriage?


----------



## dogman

Good job, but you have to stand by in your resolve to follow through with the divorce if she goes on this weekend without you. 
Work it today while she seems soft, get her to commit to not going on the weekend. This is salvageable if she doesn't go. She may want to go because of the fog but you may have broken through that for a short time at least, so get busy reeling her in.

I do t care if Ian is an mma dude you need to confront him and get him to lay off. It works without coming to blows at all. Be firm and point out the marriage commitment he is affecting whether he realizes it or not. 
By the way mma guys don't wear a cup 24/7 so....you know what to do if the situation goes sideways on you.


----------



## southern wife

Good job on your honesty, but is she still going on the trip?

Also, who tends to your baby while you're both out and about with other people?


----------



## Chris22

I haven't yet spoke about the trip, neither of us have. 

I have considered just going along, She knows that I still don't trust her.



southern wife said:


> Good job on your honesty, but is she still going on the trip?
> 
> Also, who tends to your baby while you're both out and about with other people?


Whenever we go away together, or happen to be away at the same time, we always arrange a babysitter. Usually one of our mothers.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

If I were in your situation and my wife said to me I really want to go but I will only go if you go with me I would be okay with that. And I would go along with her. But if she insists on going with or without you that would be a dealbreaker for me.


----------



## Kasler

Chris22 said:


> I haven't yet spoke about the trip, neither of us have.
> 
> I have considered just going along, She knows that I still don't trust her.


Stay true to yourself man.

It feels good now, god I know how good it feels, but it'll pass. 

The butlins trip is your point. Don't let your stance on that get weakened. She doesn't go with or without, but not at all. 

I told she'd get into your emotions again and she did, just don't compromise the new Chris that you built.


----------



## Chris989

Chris22 said:


> I haven't yet spoke about the trip, neither of us have.
> 
> I have considered just going along, She knows that I still don't trust her.


I admire your honesty but I get the feeling you could be playing with fire here. I think you have a tiger by the tail.

You've probably figured this out, but the sex you had sounds very like "hysterical bonding" and from what I have read about it means very little in the scheme of things. It's a very basic instinct you both have. 

Only time will tell, but if were you I would be absolutely on my guard for her deliberately hurting you now.

Good luck. Thanks for keeping us updated.


----------



## Chris22

Chris989 said:


> I admire your honesty but I get the feeling you could be playing with fire here. I think you have a tiger by the tail.
> 
> You've probably figured this out, but the sex you had sounds very like "hysterical bonding" and from what I have read about it means very little in the scheme of things. It's a very basic instinct you both have.
> 
> Only time will tell, but if were you I would be absolutely on my guard for her deliberately hurting you now.
> 
> Good luck. Thanks for keeping us updated.


I'm on my guard and I agree with what you are saying... She was very touchy feely though a few hours before I actually told her though, I feel as if the sex would have happened weather I had told her or not and there is no chance she knew already.

I remember reading in your story that something similar (sexually) happened for you, Perhaps this is of the same nature?

Several things popped into my head as to why she is/seems so happy:

- She feels she has a guilt free ticket to sex with Ian.
- She has already had sex with Ian, Feels even or at least less guilty now.
- She is building me up, just to crush me.
- She doesn't believe me, Thinks I'm lying out of self preservation. So I don't seem as useless.
- She really does regret everything, does love me, and wants me back. She is going for a weekend away to be with her friends... (I still don't trust her)

She has told me that life is too short to have all this drama, She wants to be with me. 

I can't help but feel the path we are on leads to a vicious circle. She wont trust me and so will cheat. I will probably do the same... That is unless I divorce her. 

Its all very strange...



Kasler said:


> I told she'd get into your emotions again and she did, just don't compromise the new Chris that you built.


I wont mate. Ill stay as strong as I can.


----------



## Almostrecovered

oh yeah, she feels the weight of guilt totally lifted


----------



## crossbar

Chris22 said:


> 30 minutes later after driving to the shop we had sex in the car, and again after we got home. She stayed the night at my house. Sex in the morning and sex again a few hours ago.
> 
> What the hell is going on??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This is called hysterical bonding. It's a subconscious, animalistic response to "re-claim" what you two believe is yours. It's nice and it may or may not last but don't mistake it as a way of showing forgiveness because it isn't. It is what it is. So, you two NEED to go to marriage counseling immediately.

I would also suggest to her that the weekend she's supposed to go. Suggest that you two go somewhere alone. Spare no expense. Take her away for the weekend. Somewhere nice.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

I wouldn't spend a dime on her until she became the wife that I expected her to be. That means no Butlins and definitely no Ian.


----------



## The Middleman

Chris22 said:


> I haven't yet spoke about the trip, neither of us have.
> 
> I have considered just going along, She knows that I still don't trust her.


Now more than every you should see why you must go with her if she goes, as husband and wife, sharing the same room. There are no options here Chris.


----------



## dogman

The Middleman said:


> Now more than every you should see why you must go with her if she goes, as husband and wife, sharing the same room. There are no options here Chris.


I agree. Unless you pref divorce, you need to go with her.

Maybe that's best anyway so you can spy on her interaction with Ian. Maybe put your doubts to rest...hopefully.


----------



## seasalt

Chris,

You've added so many new variables into your equation. When I tried to have you try to take the soothing road to determining your feelings for her and hers for you before the Butlin's weekend you said it was too late. That was before your faithlessness and before her wanting to be with you no matter what.

I wont say you are wrong in your speculation about her previously cheating with this fellow Ian. Or any of the other reasons for her saying and doing what she did. I think however that you should try to get to the bottom of you feelings for her.

I know you're both young but you have a child and if you make the wrong choice now your youth just means you will have a long time to regret that choice.


----------



## warlock07

No Butlins Chris.


----------



## sandc

Here are some slogans for you...

"Just say NO to Butlins."

"Butlins: it's not just a bad idea, it's the end."

"You may think it's Butlins, but it's not, it's the end."

"If you go you can kisslins my Buttlins."

I should have been an ad man.


----------



## lovelygirl

I worry about the 3-time-sex you had that day. 
Women use it as a weapon against men to cloud their way of thinking. And she made it!!
She had you wondering "what is going on..? Where am I? What if...?."
Some women think all a man wants is a good make up sex and everything goes back to normal.
Sounds like she (effortlessly) blew your mind away. 
Yes, she thinks you're THAT easy. 

Are you? 
You said you dont trust her but after the mind blowing sex you might have considered R.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris22

Hey guys. Update... and looks like it will probably be the last.

**quite a long one, proceed at you're own boredom**

So the sex was great, we were talking better than we have in a long while. Having fun. Things were nice.

I warned her that sex was not the answer to our problems, and that she might feel differently when its all sunk in. She agreed that it wasn't the answer, but that she knew how she felt and wanted to start over and do things properly... I of course didn't fully buy it, but went with things and enjoyed our time together knowing that it was probably due to end soon.

So, I went out to the club last night, Her and her friends turned up a bit later. No drama, no fuss. We had a chat and a kiss a few times but both stuck with out own friends. Her best friend didn't talk to me but that didn't especially bother me, I figured if things work out we can iron out all the creases as time passes.

So we had arranged on Thursday that we would head over to my house at closing time, Since our daughter was with my STBXW's mother for the night. That didn't happen, as soon as we left the club, she told her friends she was going home with me, They were not happy with her and ditched her, turns out she had told them she was going back with them for some reason? Odd. She then started to act distant from me, wouldn't open up and got really defensive, so the taxi home was pretty quiet. Stopped at her house to drop her younger brother off (who was also out and jumped in the taxi with us) and she decided she wanted to get out too, said that she was staying there and didn't want to come back to my house. **THIS IS WHERE I SHOULD HAVE WALKED AWAY** I went in with her to see what she was so upset about. She got angrier and angrier and started to shout, waking our daughter and her mother up. She wouldn't calm down and started to get hysterical, her typical drunken state that I knew all to well.

She continued to shout, and I repeatedly asked her to stop because it was upsetting our daughter. She responded by shouting louder, so in a moment of anger I picked our daughter up and walked to my house (2 minute walk) with my STBXW shouting abuse at me out the door.

5 minutes after getting home I received a nasty voicemail. 15 minutes later while settling our daughter, she was banging and kicking on my door, waking my father and our daughter up again, I tried to tell her to go away, she responded by screaming... This led to a huge argument in the street that woke the whole neighbourhood up. I tried to walk several times but she would just grab me and pull me back or try and push me over. She then tried to walk and I just got in her way, we kept this up for over an hour until around 4am. The argument consisted of me telling her to listen to herself (she was very drunk) and her telling me I was a horrible person and that she hated me. It was clear that she hates the fact that I slept with amy, she used this to pin the whole situation on me, Said that all she did was kiss Ian and that "it didn't matter" and she would never do anything like what I did.

She eventually got a lift home with a friend, It was clear she no longer wanted to talk to me. She wouldn't even give me a minute to try calm her down.

She phoned me this morning, wanting our daughter back, Although she said she wanted to spend today with me, turns out she had already organised to spend it with her friends. I don't know why she just didn't tell me. We then got to texting and she reiterated the fact that she was "not over what I did with Amy" and that it will take a long time for her to trust me again. I responded by trying to calm her down. We agreed that we would talk later in the day.

I went to drop our daughter back about an hour later, I requested she come outside, to avoid any unnecessary nastiness but she insisted I come inside. She wouldn't listen to a word I said when I got in the house, just started to shout at me saying that I was stressing her out. She then began to ignore me, by texting away on her phone. There were her niece and nephew, each with there friends in the room at this time, they are all between 7 and 10 years old. It was horrible.

In a moment of sheer frustration I took her phone and walked outside with it knowing that she would follow. I didn't want to be in that room with all the kids. She followed me screaming all the way. I got so angry I smashed her phone on the ground outside... She threw things at me, And as I walked away she screamed her final line "I HATE YOU, YOU'VE RUINED MY LIFE. I DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN"

An hour later the police turned up at my door. One of her neighbours had phoned the police. They had already spoken to my STBXW and brought a message that she no longer wanted to get back together and that she didn't want me to go anywhere near her house. I gave the police a brief description of the happenings over the last month or so and asked them to tell her that she was no longer welcome at my house and that I was pushing on with the divorce. We are both planning to see our daughter as planned. The police were told by both of us that seeing our daughter would not be a problem. The police however did inform me that because there was a domestic dispute report that the social services would now be involved. Neither of us are likely to cause problems for eachother, or we risk a restraining order being filed by one of us. And I don't want my STBXW to take my daughter away. 

So here we are. Divorce. No going back now. 

Cheers for all of your advice over this topic. Just thought some people might like to know how things turned out. Will probably update this post a few times when I have more time.

This has without a doubt been the most horrible 6 weeks of my life. I'm sad about the way things have turned out, but I have to accept the fact that we are not right for each other. I will be myself and stay single for a bit, try and work on what I did wrong and try and learn from it. When I am ready I will try and find someone new... I just can't help feeling like no one will ever again fall in love for me and I'm not sure if I will be able to love anyone. I have very low self respect right now, I'm going to go to counselling and try and make some sense of the whole thing. 

Regards, 

Chris.


----------



## Jibril

Well, that sucks.

But at least you've got some direction now. Good luck with the divorce.

And yes, you'll may well feel quite down and unattractive for a while - divorcing from someone you've committed to can do that. You'll just have to trust the posters here when they say there is a light at the end of the bleak and lonely tunnel. Soon enough you'll be getting hit on by women left and right.

Just heal and focus on yourself and your daughter. Use counseling to help you get over your funk. 

Again, good luck. Sorry things turned out as they did.


----------



## happyman64

Chris

You two need to grow up.

There comes a time when you need to walk away for he sake of your daughter and this is it.

Use the social services to your benefit.

Both of you need to focus on better more mature adults and parents.

Sorry it came to this but use it to move on.

HM64


----------



## Chris22

Exactly what we are doing? This is the way it will be. We have both walked away. I will give it a few months, by then hopefully we can be civil with eachother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kasler

Yep, sex can cloud the mind and crumbled your resolve.

I'm sorry you had to go through this to get to where you are now.


----------



## Chris22

I knew the sex wouldn't last, I just enjoyed it for what it was. We really were making love, it wasn't just sex... But it wasn't enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Chris22 said:


> I knew the sex wouldn't last, I just enjoyed it for what it was. We really were making love, it wasn't just sex... But it wasn't enough.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Chris

Of course the loving was great. But until you two can both stop the partying and guy/girls nights out with excessive drinking nothing is going to change.......

Her GF's are toxic to your marriage, add the alcohol on both sides and you are both in a volatile situation that just gets out of control hence the broken cell, the call to the police and now social services.

Take a break from each other. No intact unless it concerns your daughter.


----------



## MattMatt

Sorry you got to this stage Chris, mate, but... it was sort of inevitable, wasn't it?

I think your stbxw might have realised that she was growing older, resented the fact that she was a married woman with a husband and child and decided to use Ian to create an exit affair so she could go back to being a young, carefree single woman, with visits to night clubs, late drinking, etc.

But she isn't going to be able to do that, is she? Because she has a daughter.

The only things you can do are to use counselling to help you work on yourself to make sure you are the best Chris you can be for yourself and the best Dad you can be for your daughter.

Good luck for your future life.

If you can, please stick around as your knowledge and input could be invaluable for someone else who comes to the TAM and says: "I don't know if you have heard of it, but there's this chain of resorts here in the UK called Butlins. My spouse is going to go on an adults only weekend with some of their friends. They don't want me to go. Should I be worried?"


----------



## Chris22

happyman64 said:


> Chris
> 
> Of course the loving was great. But until you two can both stop the partying and guy/girls nights out with excessive drinking nothing is going to change.......
> 
> Her GF's are toxic to your marriage, add the alcohol on both sides and you are both in a volatile situation that just gets out of control hence the broken cell, the call to the police and now social services.
> 
> Take a break from each other. No intact unless it concerns your daughter.


Her friends are no longer any of my concern, nor is the life she will lead.

The marriage is definitely over, we know that things will always be like this. Well at least I certainly do. I do not want to be with that woman, she is not who she used to be, nor am I the man I was. 

We will have no contact unless as you said it concerns our daughter.



MattMatt said:


> Sorry you got to this stage Chris, mate, but... it was sort of inevitable, wasn't it?
> 
> I think your stbxw might have realised that she was growing older, resented the fact that she was a married woman with a husband and child and decided to use Ian to create an exit affair so she could go back to being a young, carefree single woman, with visits to night clubs, late drinking, etc.
> 
> But she isn't going to be able to do that, is she? Because she has a daughter.
> 
> The only things you can do are to use counselling to help you work on yourself to make sure you are the best Chris you can be for yourself and the best Dad you can be for your daughter.
> 
> Good luck for your future life.
> 
> If you can, please stick around as your knowledge and input could be invaluable for someone else who comes to the TAM and says: "I don't know if you have heard of it, but there's this chain of resorts here in the UK called Butlins. My spouse is going to go on an adults only weekend with some of their friends. They don't want me to go. Should I be worried?"


I agree, it was inevitable. She took a step that led to the ruin of our marriage. It can't be sugarcoated. Her drinking habits caused arguments that can't be taken back. Some of the things said cut us both deep. I didn't always help things, but until amy was involved I gave everything to try and fix the marriage. Even then I tried, but it wasn't enough.

No she won't be able to live the single life that she wants, you are right. I learned this when we had our daughter. She will learn it too eventually, and she will learn that she will have to work harder and dedicate her time better if she is to have a lasting relationship with someone, and I will learn to control my emotions better, and be a more caring and relaxed partner if I am to ever love again.

I will stick around on this site, I think, or at least hope that maybe I can do some good here.

Butlins is no longer relevant. Its none of my business. I just hope I may be able to stop someone from making the same mistakes as me that have led to our divorce.

I wish my stbxw the best of luck in the future, if she meets someone more compatible with her, then maybe they could have a great life. I thank her for giving me my amazing daughter, ill always remember her fondly for that. And I hope that I will find someone who truly appreciates me for the man I am in the future.

Thankyou to all who have posted on my thread, regardless of how things turned out, you all helped me to get through the hardest 6 weeks of my life. And I mean that literally. If I have any further problems I will start a new thread in the going through divorce section and refer to this thread if people are interested. In the mean time I will concentrate on getting my life back together as a single man. And ill try and help as many people as I can along the way.

Again, thanks for all the help.

Regards,

Chris.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Chris,

with those friends around , I don't think the marriage had a chance. they are single and about drinking heavily and partying, hooking up and etc. Mean while you're asking your wife to be faithful, loving, a wife and a mother. Not some drunken chick out until wee hours and coming home drunk.

that's what single 19 years old do, until they realize it's stupid, expensive,and childish. 

She's going to find herself down the road alone when these friends themselves grow up and move on. She's choosing the drunken kids over being a real grownup with a family. I feel most sorry for your daughter who is being dumped on grandparents so mom can go out drinking until 4am.


----------

