# please help!!!



## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Copying this into a new thread so it doesn't get lost. Please see initial thread for our story...

I'm destroyed inside right now and don't know where else to turn. I'm absolutely torn apart over what she' done. Please help if you can.

An update from my initial post: She moved into a new apartment. Said she'd be back to the house to grab a few things that she wanted for her new place and I agreed to it. As I was gone, she came. When I returned, I see that she has taken every personal possession of hers, packed it up and took it with her. She completely cleaned the house out from top to bottom of everything that was hers...down to the smallest insignificant piece of garbage. She left behind the photo albums of us (wedding, etc) and a bunch of cards we've given each other over the years. Framed pics of us she left too. Everything that she saw as hers is now gone. I broke down hard when I saw all this. It seems like she's disassociating herself with this house...with me. Like she's running away from the issues that led to this whole separation and is unwilling to even acknowledge or talk about anything with me. I did call her when I calmed down for a reason why she took everything. She wouldn't give me explanation. Just 'Im happy. I moved in. I took what was important to me...stuff you wouldn't care about.' Our pictures aren't important to her. Our memories. But some actual garbage from an old drawer is. I have such a unexplainable pain inside and everything seems distant. I'm hurt beyond belief b/c she told me again me what she wanted me to hear. A few things. Now it's everything. I'm looking for any possible answers. She hasn't mentioned any d word, hasn't filed anything. My emotions are shredded b/c I feel like she totally abandoned me and the situation we're in. Can anyone please offer any hope out of this? I don't want to feel worse than I do right now by getting 'move on' feedback. We were using this time to focus on ourselves before she was ready to talk about us. Is this an ultimate way to focus on yourself? To make it seem like you never lived w/ your husband for this long? I've got so many things running through my head and don't know how to make sense of it all. Thanks for listening


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## harley (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't know if you should hope for anything or not. My wife decided we need a divorce also. We have been around each other and we get along. I start joking around and she laughs. It seems she still has feelings for me, but then she tries to distance herself from me. It could be that your wife thinks nothing will change, and she is just afriad to try. I know you don't want to move on, but I think you should prepare for the worst. Maybe both of our wives still have feelings but if they are set on a divorce it doesn't really matter. If she is not willing to try there is nothing you can do. You just have to let her go. She may decide she should try, but you can't allow yourself to be a safety net. She has to realize you are not going to be sitting around waiting for her. Good Luck to you!!!


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

and that's just it. It seems she's focused herself in the mentality that nothing will ever change. That things I do change can't be trusted long term? I don't know how to break through and give her that sliver of hope that things can change, are changing and will continue far into the future. It makes me so unbearably sad inside that she sees things this way. Seems she has thought about her reasons for leaving so much that any of the countless good times we've shared mean nothing anymore. All those smiles and laughs we've had keep running through my head only to be overpowered by the exact opposite of who she's become b/c of all this. And despite all that, I still love her more than anything.


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## mushroom (Apr 17, 2011)

Hey lost I have been trying to get my wife back for the past 7 weeks I have sent her flowers, long emails texts. you name it i have done it. even buying a scam artists stuff by the guy Tdub. nothing has worked for me and I have court on 4-20-2011. my wife was the love of my life and she told me she only cares for me and she doesn't love me any more. lie maybe truth maybe but it still hurt and it hurt deep down inside. Do you have kids. I do so it makes my situation a little different. my mother n law is against me FOR SURE i have even tried to talk to her on a one on one basis and she told me she didn't want her daughter with me anymore. what a tool bag. those were the thoughts in my head to her, but I have started the 180 and I have not sent an email, text or call. this is to see if she will in psychology terms turn towards me so we can talk. I want counseling but she does not. even though we have three kids together. I know my wife is hitting all the bars and night clubs and having a blast. So to answer your question how to get her back no one knows except for your wife. I came to this website last night and have had a total transformation towards this disaster I am facing. If you have no kids then I would say bye bye baby and I am off to find something else but if you do it is a long road for sure.


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## hippygirl39 (Apr 14, 2011)

Sorry to say this but it does seem that she is at the moving on stage with her having taken everything. It doesn't mean that she might not change her mind at some time in the future but the best thing you can do for yourself is to accept it and start making a new life for yourself. If she sees you moving on and managing wthout her she may even start to think she has made a mistake but you can't count on that and you have to do it for yourself in any case. A period of mourning for the relationship is fine, but you have to be strong and get on with your life. Start to think about the problems in the relationship rather than the positives as they will be there, you may just not be seeing them at the moment. Good luck with it all.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

mushroom––I haven't done anything but give her time & space like she wanted. Haven't been too much in her life b/c of that. I still believe that's what caused her leaving in the first place; too much questioning and stuff. Do have some phone calls on scheduled days of week only. I'm close w/ all her family so any animosity from them I don't see happening. They've always seen us as the happy couple and treated me as one of their own. I've been told that it doesn't mean it's over, back on the day she left. We don't have kids and I don't think she'd be able to change her lifestyle & start hitting bars or the town in general. We don't know many people in the area we live in so I'm wondering if she took everything to surround herself w/ things that are hers so that she feels more comfortable in a new place? Just a thought. We're doing ind. counseling now. Hoping for together when/if she's ready. Again, no mention of D or even legal separation, so that's part of the only hope I've got. B/c of that, I'm not ready to close shop on us.

hippychick––thanks for the thoughts. I've been realizing the problems for some time now. Things I've taken responsibility for, things that she's contributed, ways we didn't read each other and ended up in passive patterns, etc. I heard her loud and clear when she told me everything that was upsetting her, and I've been reflecting and improving those ways ever since. Most of what I've realized has been branches of these main things she brought up, so it's not like I'm only focusing on those initial thoughts of hers. It's been deep thoughts, determination and understanding that have gotten me through those times of self reflection. I've learned a lot about myself and about us. I'm just hoping for the chance to talk about things with her & a counselor. We're both at fault for certain things and both need to take credit for where we fell short. But as she shuts me out even more i don't know how that is supposed to happen. That's why i feel she's giving up on us before even trying to talk about the issues that caused everything. Like she's afraid to be part of those conversations and would rather run away from them. She's always had a strong mind about things but i'm scared that that may be a downfall to our situation right now b/c it literally causes her to shut off. Not discrediting how she feels or what she's done, but she won't tell me anything about anything. Not why or the reasons she has or anything. I'm at a loss and don't know what to expect. All I can do is hope & pray that she has a change of heart and can see that we should at least try. Honestly try to save our marriage instead of just abandoning it and leaving issues as they are.


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

lost...
my H. told me a few times before that he doesn't believe things will change and in general that I will change because he said it's hard for him to change so he just doesn't believe people can change.
Well i kept insisting that it is possible and weather we get back together with him or not I am changed and will never be the same.That I see marriage in different light now ,I told him there is no way i can go back to the way I was .I kept insisting on that for months.....I guess he saw that change at some point... don't know.
BUT I also sensed that he was trying to convince himself that he doesn't love me and divorce is definitely the way to go.I t was so obvious that his body was against his mind. I could just see that he has lost himself at one point,it felt almost like when you have a turning wheel ,at first you the wheel rotates slowly and than it starts getting faster and faster and you can't stop it.
That is how he progressed with this whole separation thing.I just had to put a stick in the rim of the wheel so it can stop.


I also had to experience H. taking his stuff because he has told me at first that he doesn't want to break out family and things will work out. Than we moved here with the kids ,he came to help but than I noticed he started taking with him all his stuff,his clothes,little kitchen things...it was really painful ...he took everything of his.
He left me with all the scrapbooks that he has made for me since we met, our wedding albums and stuff.i even told him what should i do with all this things...jokingly but not really I said" I should burn them now" ,he answered ...no we'll show them to the grandchildren one day ,they would still want to know how we met and see our wedding pics....

All I want to say don't take all this too seriously,they don't know what they are doing when they get into the fog. They say ugly things,they do hurtful things...but at the end you just have to wait and see...don't wait too long though.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

thanks Vivea––it's been extremely hard today dealing with and processing all this that's happened. Shed tears more times than I can count b/c of worst case scenarios. But nothing's been said about worst case as of yet. I've decided to be a little dark for a while. I can't bring myself to call her after this. I feel hurt b/c she won't even tell me why she took everything. Maybe she doesn't know or maybe it's part of a bigger plan that is just happening in parts every couple of weeks. Sure feels that way. I'd love to think that it's just something that happened or that she didn't know what she was doing but it seems that she had this planned out for herself. Is it possible that even though she did this it's feasible for her to change at some point? It just seems so hard to digest as being caught in a fog. Seems more like a lit tunnel for her right now instead. If you could talk more about how you handled your situation that would be so helpful. Also, you said don't wait too long...could you hit on this too? thanks


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

what I mean with "don't wait too long" - look at my response on this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/24301-2-weeks-until-reconciliation.html

How I handled my situation ?! : like everyone here,cried,begged ,sent Emails,texted... for about a month...after that I saw that he is cold and changed and he is lying to me and I moved closer to family instead in the same town with him.My spirit was lifted a little but I was still a mess, I pretty much pretended over the phone that I was fine.He came to see the kids a few times and I was different,changed my appearance ,clothes,I was looking really good.He always commented that I look great and he noticed everything new.He hugged me a lot ,I did too but not as tight as he was hugging me and was a bit reserved towards him,still nice but not all over him like before.

Gosh If I start with the detail i will have to write a novel,seriously ,a lot of events and things has happened between me and him during this time and it's hard to explain in a post. Feel free to go back to my posts from Feb/March you will find a lot of details in them.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

I've been being positive on the phone when we talk and it goes well on both ends. But she tells me how great she's doing and I have to bite my lip when hearing that. Is she? I'm anything but, but can't let it show. Then I wonder if a reason why she did what she did this weekend was b/c she didn't see me rattled enough after everything she's done. B/c I've been acting like I'm fine and that's all she sees. Like she wants to put me through misery to see how I react maybe? Then it could just be irrational thoughts getting the better of me and that she actually just wants to be completely detached from us. All I hear now is that she's happy & living somewhere new and living for herself. I completely understand the need for finding independence/self again by living alone, but now that she's taken everything with her I can't see it as anything but her wanting to move on. I want to think she's surrounding herself w/ personal things to keep comfortable for this separation. I'm driving myself mad with assumptions and trying to guess answers. Didn't sleep well again last night b/c it's always on my mind. I am deciding to go dark with calls for a while to see if she does anything different. It'll hurt tremendously but I'm already going through that being in this empty house. I don't want her to put me out of mind b/c of it though. And after doing what she did this weekend it doesn't seem that she cares much for how her actions are affecting me


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

ost...in out 10 years of marriage I never ever was the one to say "i'm sorry" after an argument .I was always very edgy when there was a problem between us,also not forgiving for his past mistakes and always would bring them up in an argument .Not that I didn't have a reason to be like that BUT that was not the way to go.Made huge mistakes that I realized later.

So when he left me I showed him my other side ,I really found my other side...I was surprised how easy it is to not let the past eat you alive.I kept showing this to him, he has done and said so many hurtful things during the separation to me BUT I haven't fought him about it....very unusual for me and I know he can see that. So what I'm saying is I really showed him the new me...and he saw that since Christmas,I was consistent...not even one slip.He has told me so many things over the phone ,things that I usually would flip about BUT I have been very accepting of these things and supportive to him. Even when he's told me twice over the phone that he's done with me ,I still kept it together and didn't say anything that I would later regret....very unusual for ME.

So what i'm saying is ,you have to figure out what was the biggest factor to make her leave you.If you find out and you want to change for her and for yourself than you have to do it and than you have to be able to show her that.

If you think she wants to see how much you love her,because sometimes we as a females like to see a guy begging and telling us that we are "his" everything well than you'll have to do it.

My H. also told me a few times that he is definitely happy on his own ,he enjoys his time alone and that nobody nags him ,he has no anxiety about anything.It really hurt to hear that.

Things could change BUT you have to figure out what exactly drove her away .I stopped begging my H. but I periodically kept sending long Emails to him ,explaining why our marriage failed and what I realized about myself and what it could be if we stayed together. I told him that I'm strong by fighting for my marriage,that I thought "strong" would mean to walk away from the marriage.
I kept saying to him that he is so loved and he is throwing so much love away and he doesn't realize that now BUT one day he will but it might be too late.

You need to find out what makes her so happy right now and assure her she can have the same thing when she is back with you,that you will not stop her.That the dynamic of your marriage will be changed and you can be happy again if you work on it together. Ask her to go with you on one of these marriage bootcamps.It's 4 days intense counseling based on Dr Phil's method.I had a friends that attended and they said it's the bomb and they recommend it to anyone .It should be easy for you two to attend since you have no kids. Just search for it on google .


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

wow vivea--really appreciate the insight here. So I am finding again the other side of me that I let slip away from us. The side that I always intended to be but let be ignored for some time. I was that man before in our early years. I loved that side of me when she was around. I could see the payoffs in her eyes and smile. But, no excuses here, things became hectic with life and stress and work and anything else you can jam a daily routine with. I lost my focus of that side of me and became someone who got sucked into mundane things every day regularly. I believe it happened to both of us and we let it happen. I took my attention off of the one person who needed it most and I regret not understanding that she was hurting as bad as she was over the years. Trying my best to only show the better person I'm relearning to become. That she might notice and see me in a better light.

You said he told you he was done a couple times. How did you verbally handle those situations? I think it would be hard to hear that and think of something positive or affirm that they feel that way by being supportive. Maybe I'd get stuck doing that kind of thing?


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

Ohhh no when he told me he was done with me I was not supportive believe me i just had to bit my tongue.
The 1st time when he said that he was done was exactly when i was supposed to move closer to him, he admitted that he is not intending to work on our marriage and he wants me closer only because of the kids.So than he said he is done and I was crushed but didn't cry or anything ,I just simply stood there and told him he will be regretting it and I said some things to him how i intend to develop my life from that point on. It was the hardest conversation ever.

Than the second time was right before he decided to reconcile with me.He was very cold and firm over the phone ,said he is sure and I was completely crushed again...I did have so hope before that and couldn't believe what I was hearing.I just told him "you know I've done everything under the sun to save our marriage so there is really nothing else i can do,it's your loss" and I just hung up the phone.
I was devastated,took my ring off (still don't have it on my finger,he doesn't know) cried ...it was hard as hell.But 3 hrs later I received an Email from him which shocked me. I posted it in one of my threads,if you're interested search for it ,the post is from Feb.26th. 
He asked me some things and admitted things in that Email.

I'm glad I can help ,if you have more Q please feel free to ask or PM.


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

I actually went back to find you the post here it is :http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/22338-pleasee-help-me.html


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## hippygirl39 (Apr 14, 2011)

People often want something (or someone) they can't have or who doesn't seem to want them. Vivea said in her post above that she pretended she was fine and changed style etc. With some, pretending you aren't hurting as much as you are may bring them back and if it doesn't - well, at least you will have your pride intact. I know the old saying 'pride comes before a fall' but personally, I don't want someone to think they have got to me. My husband had an affair before xmas and although I was shocked and hurt at time, I was still able to hold my head up high throughout. I really hope you are feeling better soon as you do have it within yourself to be happy again regardless of the outcome.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks for the link Vivea. I guess with things I've learned through books, posts, etc that we should put that best foot forward in all situations. But at the same time I'm not a doormat who's going to just take the blows as they come and pretend like it's nothing. Wondering still how she views that? Won't ever know for sure I guess. I can be positive as anything during talks, but when something like moving everything out of the house happens, I don't know how to touch the subject. I tried talking at least to get an explanation as to why, but ended it more abruptly when she wouldn't. Now I'm dark for a while. Or do I wait a few days and try to talk about it again that it hurt me? Shouldn't show weakness, but maybe she'd realize that her actions deeply affected me. On the other hand she might stop talking all together to me b/c I'm questioning her actions. Again, gray area for me.

Hippygirl--please weigh in to this as well if you can. Trying to preserve my own emotions while putting on that strong facade that she may take notice of being different about me. Kind of feel stuck for now b/c this is the first instance where I almost went over the edge and backslid, but caught myself and just ended the call before I said something I'd regret. Want to be mature about this in a way she'd respect and not to point fingers at her which my drive her further out. Anyone--thoughts?


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

lost...in your case I think you should straight ask her what is her position on your marriage at the moment.Does she feels confused or she is sure of things?!
Tell her that you though you had an understanding that you'll work on the marriage and now you see her actions show something else.
I know you're probably scared because you fear you'll hear the worst but it will be better for YOU to know now. And who knows maybe if she says it's over than she might realize that it is not what she actually wants.I think you sitting and waiting for her to say something is only going to prolong your torture.


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Well for another side of the coin and probably not too useful but...

I get grief for having any contact with or any hope for my husband at all no matter who I talk to barring ONLY him. From him all I get is an onslaught of he has changed, he is great and why can't I see...

I know I will have to totally give up and just tell him there is no hope. Honestly I am still his to abuse until I do. I am happy with him out of the house but I am still tending to his moods and avoiding his rage not to just tell him to eff off. He has these glimmers... I love the glimmer but it is just a mirage, a little sparkly, not a good husband. Not someone that will protect me from harm. It is the cause of great pain over a very long period of time.

I don't know how you could convince her. I can't answer that for my own husband. It might be impossible...


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Got out of IC earlier this morning. We talked about this whole thing and how I'm just devastated that she went about it the way she did. Counselor was shocked and put off as it being very cowardly and her running away from her/our issues, trying and telling herself too much that it's all about her at this point. Understanding it takes 2 to work on things, it also takes 2 to talk about anything. When she can't give me anything about why she did this it's a huge personal barrier on her part. Another way to further distance herself from the actual issues. I'm not saying she's wrong for wanting her own space or for wanting her stuff with her. I am saying that the very same reasons about me that she saw as needing to leave (disrespectful times, trust, communication breakdowns to name a few) are coming back around and becoming the driving force behind everything that she's doing. Maybe we'll talk at some point soon and I'll get some answers. Time will tell. I'm still messed up from all this. Any more ideas for how I can keep conversation about things more under control if we do talk? Still fighting hard to save things.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Had a very very rough night again. Woke up so many times and after falling back to sleep only had dreams about her. Taking yesterday's post into account I can't stop thinking. Thought I was in a mental place where I could handle things but I'm the opposite right now. This house is so empty. I hate having that feeling inside that she's not seeing change being possible between us or even giving us a chance in her head. We haven't tried anything to fix what led to all this and don't know why she won't even give it a thought. To say I need encouragement is an understatement right now. I'm expecting a bomb the next time we see each other and have been racking my head with ways to react to it. I'm nowhere close to lying down and giving up on us and I want her to know that. Just pretending to forget about us and move on isn't an answer I can take. It's all hitting me at the same time now and losing hope that I'll be able to keep a level head when that time comes. Got so much pain inside and I'm starting to break again


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

lost i know exactly how you feel,the most horrible feeling ever..so sorry..hugs

I have to tell you that my H. started telling me little things about what happened in the last 2-3 days. I don't ask because I feel awkward and it's over the phone BUT he tells me himself.

He said that he has been reading my Love emails I've send to him during separation , he said he really likes them a lot. I think these emails also helped him to take his decision.

He also told me last night that we will make it,he says he knows that...that's how he answered when I told him that I hope we make it.He said that he separated from me because thinks now that he is just very affectionate person and somehow I stopped being loving to him. ( I beg to differ but...) Well i didn't want to remind him why I have been the way i have..I just told him there were factors that made me that way... but stopped there.I do not intend to argue about how he felt or feels,we might discuss this with the help of MC one day.
So not sure if he even knows for sure why he left me,i do think that I know exactly why but really not sure if he is pretending not to know of really doesn't know. 

The other interesting thing is that he slowly comes back to me...the real HIM...my loving husband and the person I unconditionally loved for the past 10 years of my life.Because i really haven't seen him for the last 5 months,)that loving person vanished 5 months ago) Everyday he adds something small to our conversations,things that we lost during all of this.it's like the way he talked himself into hating me and not loving me and leaving me,the same way now he talks himself into loving me and wanting to be with me.It is really bizzare.The same example of the turning wheel but now on the positive note..you know.
It's like they detach big time and convince themselves BUT there is a way for them to attach back to us in the exact same way.

Don't know if that is helpful in any way but now that I started to have an insight from the mind of the person that separates the least I can do is to share it. It might help someone.


Lost ...don't give up...I'm sure you'll know in your heart when it's time,you will get to a place where you'll say to yourself"well I've tried everything" when you get to that place than you don't really take the decision to start moving on but it'll come naturally to you. It is also so so normal to feel that pain,all of us here feel it daily,24/7 ,it's so exhausting ,it consumes you and you get lost in it too. You have to find out what gives you a little peace from time to time.For me was when i go to hang out with my brother's family .The moment I stepped into their house I felt instantly better I could only eat at their house ,i could only smile there and feel strong and take a little break from my destructive thoughts.
Find this place for yourself,it'll give you a break and you'll need that.

(also excuse my wording , English is my second language and sometimes I get lost in it) lol


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Vivea--Really wish I was in your shoes relationship-wise. It's been such a rollercoaster since sunday. Obviously having a bad time with things right now. I never did send any love emails or any emails for that matter to her after she left. I literally wanted to give her all the time & space she wanted so I just refused to chase her in any way. Any calls we've had were on days we said we could talk and that's about it. Wanted to keep getting together every so often just to do something small like coffee & we agreed but haven't seen her now in bout 3.5 weeks. Now all this happened and I can't even bring myself to call or text b/c I'm so hurt by what she did. I hope she realizes that I feel this way and not just thinking I'm giving her a silent treatment. I was tempted to email and say I wanted to meet and talk about things. But at the same time I don't want to be the one always being available asking her if she wants to talk. I'm dreading having a conversation now anyway b/c of 2 posts of mine ago. At this point I'm not giving up. Until we do anything to work on our problems and see it does or doesn't work, I'm never giving up. But what happens if she has? She's so hard to read now b/c of all the manipulation & stuff she's not telling me that I find out. It's not her at all. But for some reason it is currently. So what do I do? Initiate my wanting to talk somewhere or no contact and see if she asks me? Probably sounds like a trivial question but it might be crucial to how the conversation goes.


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

Lost ...the things my H. did and said to me at the beginning...ahhh where do I start..so much pain...He treated me badly,disrespected me,lied to me numerous times ,said really nasty things to me BUT I chose not to hate him for that....I actually can't believe I managed to not hate him but you know what I treated him like he has some sort of personality disorder and I blamed his "disorder " for his behavior .. Really.. But that is how I felt about this whole thing,I really couldn't believe this is HIM , the person that always responded to "i love you " with ' i love you more" .he actually wrote this email to me 4 month before he checked out -you can read pieces of it on my 3rd post here:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/21954-well-ive-done.html

For me it's still shocking how is that possible,how was the whole thing possible,how did he allow to do this to us...

I don't know lost, I think you should do something to show her your love. Your approach of agreeing and giving her space might not be the best one,she might read it as "ohh well he doesn't care much = he doesn't love me that much" . Just be careful with that and try not to be mad at her,I know it's hard but that might interfere with your actions.Be more expressive ,see how that works out .I have to tell you these love Emails that I've sent my H. and all the love talk and kind of begging at the beginning was NOT me at all . I don't do things like that,i'm more in check with my male side ...I'm tough or was tough and would never lay on my back....and my 1st reaction was to say "F...you and never speak to him again"...don't know if it was because of the kids that i couldn't do that...i had to fight I had to preserve my feelings and remember HIM the way I knew him...not the way he presented himself in these times.

So anyways , what i'm sayin again is that sometimes you have to swallow that pride and just do what your heart tells you...as I said at least you'll know you've tried it all.
Just saying,you take your decisions but you never know...


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

thanks Vivea--As much as I'm hurt & devastated by what she did I'm still not angry at her. Angry at what she did yes, but not at her. It's not her the way I see it. It's whatever's changed in her head. Like you said kind of a disorder. You're right. I love her too much to let these negative thoughts get the best of me. I don't want us to not talk anymore b/c neither of us will act first. Of all weekends it's easter too. I've got to be able to forgive. That was part of the bigger spiritual changes in myself b/c I would always hold things like this. Thinking about writing an email to acknowledge my hurt about what happened but be able to forgive. Saying i still don't understand why, but won't dwell on it anymore. I'm torn b/c everything says to not initiate anything, but you're right in saying she might look at it like I don't care. I want to be the bigger person here and show her that I'm strong & forgiving. To show I love her greatly that way. Not a doormat, but one who's able to look past and still move forward. I don't know how else to show her that right now.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

just an update--she texted me to see if I wanted to get together to eat/talk on Sat. Said I have plans so not sure if I can. Really not sure about this. Everything so far has been part of a plan for her. Things falling into place at my expense and pain. I even wonder if she cares about what I feel when she does these things. Wonder if she knows how badly she's tearing me apart? So I'm unsure about this request. Another part of her plan? Timing looks about right at least. Expecting the worst, but need help keeping composure and ways to handle the conversation. Hoping it wouldn't happen and she might just want to have dinner with no hidden agenda, but I'm hearing things she wants me to hear again. No explanations, no elaboration, just b/c I brought it up before & it didn't happen. That was Sunday. Look back if you didn't read about Sunday. We haven't talked since then either so the random text is something odd. Sorry for the skeptical mentality right now. She never explained why she did what she did. It's just not sitting right.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

please read my previous post. It is happening tomorrow now. I've got so many thoughts running thru my head I can't think straight. Like all of of us, I'm fighting hard for our marriage whether she sees it or not. Hoping for the best, but need help with maintaining composure and emotions during. If anyone has thoughts, please respond as soon as possible!!


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

GL lost ,I hope it goes well .Can't give you advice on how to keep it together BUT I strongly advice you to put the cards on the table and ask questions...for your sake. Don't let yourself leave with even more questions . Try to get to the bottom of the truth if possible!


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

It happened tonight. C session with her. She ended us. Counselor didn't interject much b/c W was talking alot then I would. I was calm till the end after the 5th time i heard her say she was never coming home, didn't want to work on things, is DONE, is moving on, is set on her decisions, it's not what she wants anymore. I ask why she won't work on anything she says I don't want to. She was angry the whole time explaining herself and if I asked anything she would fire back with more anger. Asked why she is leaving everything unresolved. She has no mind to ever want to revisit the memories. Told her it leaves me w/ nothing but guilt about everything. She's ok with that, but I 'shouldn't think that'. Just wants what's best for her personal happiness and wants to forget about us. I'm a damn mess right now. My best friend, my wife doesn't want anything to do with us. She only sees me as a friend and has for a while now. Still so much resentment & rage from her. She doen't even want to resolve that. So many yrs of marriage and friendship and so many tears right now. sorry if this is babble but I can't talk to anyone else. I thought there was some sort of hope left.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I know exactly how you feel although my wounds are not as fresh as yours. I can tell you that it does get easier as the days pass. Believe me, I too understand how each day will seem to pass at a snail's pace, but it's been 6 months now for me and I sometimes wonder where the time has gone. Keep your head up. 

Have to ask, has she filed yet? If not, now is the time to do somethings to help you and possibly help your marriage. There is a lot of info on here about the 180 or Plan A. They are similar but yet different. Do a search and read up on both. They will help you feel better and start to move in a healthy direction whether it is with or without your wife. 

Stay strong. I've been there. You're not by yourself.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't know. She hasn't said anything. I haven't seen anything. But could just not be saying anything till it's in motion. I've been doing 180 for a while and started LRT recently. Might be good for myself, but she's not going to notice anything. If I'm not around that's what she wants and sees as best for what she's doing. It puzzles me that she won't talk about anything. Even things inside her to bring closure to anything. She's just got this tunnel vision for getting away from us and living her new life.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm sorry if you have already mentioned it but is there someone else?


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Not going to repeat everything in your thread Lost but as you were looking for advice in a similar situation and have been chronicling everything I have been doing and her reactions here on the forums 9years and no long in love with me is the thread. I like to think there is hope for you two but she does have to realize that and it is something she has to do on her own.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

mark--nobody else involved. She's just resentful of things to the point where I don't exist to her anymore. Just wants to be a friend.

niceguy--I want to hold out for hope as well. But it seems she's done for good. I don't want to believe it and this ring isn't even close to coming off my finger. The things she said though, her saying she's completely done so many times, my bringing up a couple things out of frustration toward the end, it ended up melting and she was just bitter again. She left 'guilt free' on her part and left it on me instead. So much of me wishes that she could find something in her heart to want to at least talk about anything. But to her those days are long gone.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

can anyone lend more advice/thoughts to my sitch? I'm literally breaking at the seams over what happened. Really rough night and can't seem to hold it together at all


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

I spent a lot of time today sadly thinking of what happened yesterday between us. Still I'm torn down to nothing after hearing her say what she did about not ever coming home. Her words cut through my soul like a knife when she said she's completely checked out and done...is finished, not what she wants anymore, etc. Ended up having to take 2 sleeping/anxiety pills to get some rest. Never done that till recently. Not planning on getting hooked either so don't think that. I was on such a good run for weeks bettering myself and doing things for me. Then last weekend hit and haven't been the same since. Still haven't heard any word about her filing but I think that it'll just happen out of the blue at my doorstep eventually. Don't think she wants to say the word to me. Just say it 17 other ways until I 'understand what she's saying'. My entire life was ripped apart b/c this. Lost my best friend who only sees me as a friend now. And mostly, lost the love of my life b/c she won't even try to talk about anything that led to this. She's right in her mind and anything that opposes that in any way gets batted aside to the ground. I respect she can make her own decisions, but to blatantly ignore everything and just sprint in the other direction? I need something to look for in all this. Or some way of seeing that time might somehow change things. I love her so much. And I can't tell her anymore b/c she can't see me for what I've become. She only sees me as I/we were before this all happened. Her walls are up permanently.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Lost, if she wants out, give her all the space she needs.

Don't ever beg someone to stay with you. If you do, it will have the opposite effect. The fact that she said she was done in counselling is all you need to know to back off. I know it hurts so bad and you feel like the world is crumbling all around you. But you will get through this, trust me. 

Pull back. Don't chase her.

Are you sure she is not having an affair?

Has she filed at all?

What was her reason for wanting out?


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

jelly--I've backed off completely after hearing what she said. I'm NC now. I never begged, just wanted to know why she was giving up on everything without trying. You're right about how awful it hurts though. And even more so than that. I know you ask about affairs to a lot of posts. She said again in front of the counselor that nothing ever happened. Has not said anytihng about filing. She's said no twice when I've asked in weeks prior. She had many reasons for wanting this (including things in posts from 04.04.11) but as it is she emphasized that she's put too much of herself into our marriage, done things not for herself but for me first and foremost, lost herself, wants to be happy, wants fulfillment, our bad communication, she's been checked out and has seen me as only a friend for a while. She's got so much anger inside and it drives everything. It fortifies those walls she's built. As much as I noticeably change for the better, she refuses to see it as lasting and doesn't trust any of it. That makes me feel so miserable b/c for the first time in a long time I'm starting to see the real me come out. The guy I always hoped to be. You know? She finally got through to me in ways I could clearly understand and let me feel what she was feeling and thinking. And all I see now is the woman I still love remembering everything bad and erasing everything that was ever good. And there was so much good throughout the years. But it seems those walls are so high that even she can't see over and finds it easier to not even look at us. And b/c of that I've seen sides of her I never knew existed. She's stated in many different ways that she's completely done.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I, myself, would pay extremely close attention to her. It smells pretty bad in my opinion. Especially with her saying that she wants to be friends. I hope you're right about there not being someone else, but your situation closely resembles mine. I, too, thought that she was just fed up with our marriage only to find out that there was somebody else. I'm just saying not to rule anything out.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

LT I know how you are feeling. I am pretty much in the same exact boat. Its not that she wants to leave me or anything. I hear she is unhappy I hear she needs to find herself, I just want her to give our marriage, me and the children the consideration of finding herself first then determining the best course of action from there. I know it has been a long time coming but I finaly have the things I need in the relationship and what I needed was her to quit being my stepford wife. I amin full support of us getting some space and working on ourselfs. I just can't understand how they can say they tried when they never listened to us and only did what they thought was right. I don't want either of us to try by ourselfs I want us to try together to make an honest try at saving things. If she made that honest try and still decided she wanted a divorce I would be a lot more at ease with it. This past month she has been trying honestly a lot more, but it is stillsemi dishonest as she is only doing it to save a "friendship" Quite hoenstly I am not sure if their is a friendship to save because a friend doesn't lie and hide things or make their friend feel worthless.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Know what you mean niceguy, about 'making their friend feel worthless'. Definitely she's turned into someone I've never known just in the past couple weeks. Ever since she said she was looking for an apartment, and her actions afterwards. I can only pray that there's not someone else and would hope that she would give me the respect of at least telling me. But she tells me what she wants me to hear. It makes her look stronger to everyone that way. Her story over anything I say. She won't even tell me where her new place is. Just a broad vicinity. All the resent, guilt and hostility that she puts on me makes it seem that I'm the one responsible for everything. That she can walk away without taking any of it herself. That friend comment of hers really, really cut me through the heart. Nine years of marriage and I'm just a friend to her. I can hear it like she's standing right here.

mark--thoughts or suggestions to talk more about what you said?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

lost_&_trying said:


> mark--thoughts or suggestions to talk more about what you said?


Well, has she become glued to her cell phone? Does she now keep it with her all time as if her life depended on it? Does she now have a lot of secret conversations where she leaves the room and doesn't want you to hear what she's saying? Does she spend a lot of time on the computer? Does she come and go and some very different times of day or night than what she has during your marriage? 

These are the type of things I suggest you pay attention to. Do you two have joint cell phones? Can you check the bill to look for unfamiliar numbers and odd times for conversations and texts?


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

mark--see my previous posts for more...she left last month and have only had very limited contact since. Since has moved everything of hers out. She got an apartment for herself and won't say where it is. In front of the counselor she said she's completely checked out, moving on and finished...only seeing me as a friend. That's where I'm at.


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

Lost ..go check out my new thread. She is probably involved with someone.I could swear my H. wasn't the whole time but he was.Sorry i haven't responded to your messages,I was destroyed...still am.
Sorry things are not going your way...


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

There may or not be another person Mark but speaking from my own case its not the OM that is the problem. any OM that their was while they were activley together was only tool to make him go crazier thereby justifying her leaving. Like me he is a victim of WAW. 

LT she has had this plan for a while. She decided long ago like you have said to check out. She quit seeing you in a positive light and there isn't much you can do about it. I am doing everything possible in my relationship with out chasing. MC might help but what is really needed is IC for herself forher to discover why she trashes anything that makes her happy. I am sure you guys had your problems before check out date but after she emotionaly checked out nothing you did was right nothing you did was good enough.

She is in love with the idea of her first and everyone else be damned. She is on a self destructive path that only she can get off. The first step is she needs to start taking fault and forgiving herself for the things she has done wrong and sabotaging the relationship (its one thing to do things wrong by accident its another to purposley undermine your partner on a concious or subconcious level) If there is going to be any hopes of reconcilliation she needs to open her heart to you and give you an honest chance and let you vent your anger about her to her. You will need to do the same for her. She is going to have to learn how to find happiness in other peoples happiness instead of the world revolving around her.

If she isn't going to make those changes there is nothing you can do.Like I said I feel you brother been having the same problems you are having. I think as far as emotionaly me and my STBX? are further along. We ar ein counciling now yes but it is for a two fold reason, I am trying to save our marriage yes barring that I am trying to find out if I can be just a friend with her. Right now things don't look good for her and I have told her that.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Vivea--SO ABSOLUTELY REPULSIVE AND PLAIN DISRESPECTFUL TO YOU AND THE KIDS. I'm feeling so bad for you & yours right now. But you're doing the right thing by keeping your mind where it is. It's not you. I don't understand the whole 'me first' mentality in these situations. So selfish. Just _undeniably_ selfish. That they can lie to your face (and apparently to others at the same time) just to manipulate and twist their stories into what they're 'certain' they want. I can't imagine the world of hurt you're going through. Again. 

You're still here though.

niceguy--you're spot on. I wish to God she could open her heart and honestly talk to me. But she won't. I don't know even if time will help her through that. Wondering if there's any way to get through to her to suggest help if I'm doing NC? Obviously not right now, but given some time to look at herself, maybe she would at least think about it. I can only hope she's still being honorable to the agreement we made about honoring our vows during this time, no matter where we are now. As for her learning _how to find happiness in other peoples happiness instead of the world revolving around her,_ she learned the opposite: To not find happiness in others and to instead make herself happy first and foremost, even if that means getting out of the marriage. I say this b/c she tried with all her efforts to do what she felt would make me/us happy the entire time before checking out. Her not getting the gratification she sought led to so much of this. Feeling disrespected, unappreciated, lonely when I couldn't acknowledge enough. And now it's though she's making up for all the lost years when she could have been doing things for _her._ But her spiteful anger and bitter tongue feel like a whipping of briars against my ears and heart. And now every word that comes out regarding me is twisted into negativity, refusing to see me for what I've become and seeing nothing but what caused the original hurts. If there is one divorce I'll agree to, it's to divorce what we were and they ways we went about becoming that. I want so bad to start over with her again, with new understandings of what we both need and want and what we both need to contribute in order to achieve that level of happiness we're entitled to. I know that's only what I've been thinking of and can only pray that she might, with time, be able to see the same. But like you said niceguy, it all starts with reflection and forgiveness.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

lost_&_trying said:


> Vivea--SO ABSOLUTELY REPULSIVE AND PLAIN DISRESPECTFUL TO YOU AND THE KIDS. I'm feeling so bad for you & yours right now. But you're doing the right thing by keeping your mind where it is. It's not you. I don't understand the whole 'me first' mentality in these situations. So selfish. Just _undeniably_ selfish. That they can lie to your face (and apparently to others at the same time) just to manipulate and twist their stories into what they're 'certain' they want. I can't imagine the world of hurt you're going through. Again.
> 
> You're still here though.
> 
> niceguy--you're spot on. I wish to God she could open her heart and honestly talk to me. But she won't. I don't know even if time will help her through that. Wondering if there's any way to get through to her to suggest help if I'm doing NC? Obviously not right now, but given some time to look at herself, maybe she would at least think about it. I can only hope she's still being honorable to the agreement we made about honoring our vows during this time, no matter where we are now. As for her learning _how to find happiness in other peoples happiness instead of the world revolving around her,_ she learned the opposite: To not find happiness in others and to instead make herself happy first and foremost, even if that means getting out of the marriage. I say this b/c she tried with all her efforts to do what she felt would make me/us happy the entire time before checking out. Her not getting the gratification she sought led to so much of this. Feeling disrespected, unappreciated, lonely when I couldn't acknowledge enough. And now it's though she's making up for all the lost years when she could have been doing things for _her._ But her spiteful anger and bitter tongue feel like a whipping of briars against my ears and heart. And now every word that comes out regarding me is twisted into negativity, refusing to see me for what I've become and seeing nothing but what caused the original hurts. If there is one divorce I'll agree to, it's to divorce what we were and they ways we went about becoming that. I want so bad to start over with her again, with new understandings of what we both need and want and what we both need to contribute in order to achieve that level of happiness we're entitled to. I know that's only what I've been thinking of and can only pray that she might, with time, be able to see the same. But like you said niceguy, it all starts with reflection and forgiveness.


Exactly she did what SHE felt was needed for the marriage and never asked what you NEEDED. Mine did the same thing. I haven't been happy for 3 years (partial lie their have been extremley unhappy moments in the past 3 years)and I tried to do everything for you. Allthe while she ignored my mmost basic of needs that I was directly telling her I needed fullfilled and fueled my insecurities and never telling me what she NEEDED. Its selfish behaviour. We were suppose to be a team to put it in basket ball terms I need to at the very least know the plays that are being called if I don't know you are giving me the assist so I can jam it into the basket I am going to be sitting there waiting for you to shoot so I can get the rebound in case youmiss.

And then after all that the gall of the I love you but I am not in love with you, I still want to be friends, I haven't been happy for three years...wait why do you look so angry?Its like great nothing is changing you say you need to work on yourself... great start by keeping up the selfish behaviour.

Ok someone might be having an angry day


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## Giulietta (Apr 21, 2011)

lostandtrying, your wife sounds exactly like my husband, same reasons and behavior and everything. Absolutely certain about checking out and acting like a different person suddenly spewing resentment and hostility out of nowhere. making you into the bad person justifies their reason for leaving and helps them not to feel bad. And comments like 'It's not like your loosing me, we can still be friends! and you get a free car!' Yay. Like this hasn't affected him at all and can't possibly understand why I would be upset.

People are strange.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

sorry to have to admit this after all the back and forth we've been having but I had one of the worst nights yet thinking about her. I broke down a bunch of times trying to sleep and woke up to dreams of her wearing her wedding rings again. It just kills me b/c I know it's not her and only subconsciously what I wish would be, that she could be loving toward me. I'm at a loss for how to try to get that to happen anymore. Every time I try to sleep she comes into my thoughts. She's always there and always has. Everything's so empty without her beside me but I can't make her stay either. It haunts me that others think something else is going on and I have no way of knowing anything. It just tears me open inside thinking about something like that so I can't. I want to believe that she could see us differently somehow but no idea what she's going through herself. I know we're both deeply hurting but every time I close my eyes I see her so defiant against even putting an effort to it. It's easy to say to focus on yourself instead but she's been with me for so much of my life that I can't ever stop thinking about her and what's become of us. I'm sorry for this post. I just wanted to say what I'm going through in the last 7 hours.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Niceguy13 said:


> There may or not be another person Mark but speaking from my own case its not the OM that is the problem. any OM that their was while they were activley together was only tool to make him go crazier thereby justifying her leaving. Like me he is a victim of WAW.


I would beg to differ on this. If there is another in her life, he IS the reason why she is unwilling to give you a chance.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Don't know who's to say is right between you two. It could be either depending on how much truth is behind what was said about there never being anyone. But I still don't know. That's what gets me most though. I don't know if I'm being told something or actually hearing an honest response anymore. I mean we were having good conversations and once she secretly moved her stuff out it was full steam ahead to where we are now. Communication was cut, she said what she said about us and I've been emotionally killed ever since.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lost_&_trying said:


> jelly-- *I know you ask about affairs to a lot of posts*. She said again in front of the counselor that nothing ever happened.


Lost, I do ask it a lot and I do it because I have read about these situations many many times on these boards and on others. 

Most affair stories all sound the same, and you will see the pattern the longer you keep reading many peoples stories. It generally goes like this (and anyone else posting, feel free to add):

_*My wife/husband has told me out of the blue that ILYBINILWY and they want out of the marriage. They have been acting emotionally distant and angry with me and they're saying they are completely done, there is nothing to work on and they dont want to go to counselling, there is nothing leflt to repair.

I asked him/her if there is someone else and they told me "No." I believe him/her because he/she doesn't have the time to do that anyway plus he/she has always despised cheating.

Idk what to do! I am at a loss. I keep reaching out to him/her but it seems its making it worse.*_

Then a few weeks later, you see the OP posting *"OMG I just found out there is OW/OM. WTH!!!!"*

Now I'm not saying that is your case but all the red flags are there. Go and read Lonely's thread on Going Thru Divorce. (Sorry to call you out, Lonely, but it's the perfect illustration of this). 

Whether she is involved with a third party or NOT, you need to accept her position that it's over. Do not fight her on this. Think about when you tried to dump someone and they could.not.let.it.go. It appalled you right???

So it would do you good to do a total 180, stop MC (since sh said she is done) and IMO, write her a letter saying something like this (in your own words):

"Wife, I love you. And I married you for life. But I've come to realize I have been trying to hold you against your will. That is not loving. If you want to seaprate and you feel ti is the best thing for you, then I respect your decision. I do not want to be in a relationship where there isn't 100% committment from both sides. If you decide you want to work on this marriage with me, then we can discuss that, but in the meantime, I am letting you go. Love should be free."

This does two things:

1. Makes her realize she is, in fact, FREE. And being FREE may not be something she actually likes once she sees you're not there for her anymore. Ever wanted to go out somewhere and your parnets told you as a teen you couldn't go and you were even more pissed off. Then they relented and you got to the party and ti was ... well...lame. And you would have rather been at home instead watching your favorite TV show? That is what happens. 

2. You get your self-respect back. because instead of having NO plan and being in LIMBO (Hell on Earth), you can now move forward knowing you're not waiting for her to make a decision for you. And because you have taken initiative and stated your boundaries, she will respect that. 

Get it? 

Oh and it's not at all uncommon for the Wayward not to want to file for divorce. You see it every day on these threads. They usually keep you on a string until they soak up the courage to end it themselves or will wait for the other one to do it so they can't say they "terminated" the marriage, which is utter BS.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

thanks jelly. I needed that. I've been over and over in my head what's been said to me through this. Many hurtful things toward me that may or may not have been intended to hurt as much as they did. Bottom line is that they embedded in my heart and have getting the better of me. And now reading your post it sounds too similar. And I have no way of knowing unless she would say anything. I still don't believe she would, but like anyone else...who knows what's true anymore. As much as I don't want to I'm realizing that she's steadfast on her decision. I really can't do anything else but accept it. I've started more for myself again after a little while of a slump. Called a new therapist and seems to be the personality/forward-thinking/inquisitive type that I've been looking for. We had a good talk. Actually called out of the blue and asked my questions up front which she was very taken with and responsive to. Checking out others too, but it's for me this time and what I need. Thanks for your thoughts and advice. Much needed.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Giulietta said:


> your wife sounds exactly like my husband, same reasons and behavior and everything. Absolutely certain about checking out and acting like a different person suddenly spewing resentment and hostility out of nowhere. making you into the bad person justifies their reason for leaving and helps them not to feel bad.


I've been thinking a lot about this post from before and how after looking again and again at what happened with us, there was a time when I noticed that she changed completely in how she acted toward me. I'm not taking about the distance from the past year when she checked out, or even the anger she expressed long ago when everything came out to me. But the way in which she handled herself when we went to first of 2 MC sessions was not her. Seeing someone who had nothing but hate and hostility flowing through her veins toward me made me scared for her. Like she snapped. After, we would talk as friends again and have laughs for a couple weeks. We were on good speaking terms and having hour long talks at times. But her plan was still moving without me knowing. Then last weekend came and she pulverized me with everything. Started Sat and continued Tues at MC. She placed so much of the blame on me and refused to take anything negative herself. Then her comments about me about INILWYA and me only being seen as a friend to her, having been since she checked out. Still ringing in my head & hurting beyond words can say. There's something not right. I'm worried about her. Mostly b/c of things that were said...the harsh words and tones...I want to ask if she's continuing IC. I'm doing NC so can't just ring her up but nothing's been looked at deeper and anything inside her that even led to checking out has not been touched b/c of those walls she has. What could be telling her to not even acknowledge us? I get it...she checked out. I heard what she said about how she feels about us. But not even willing to talk about how it got to be this way? Iknow what she's said and I'm not trying to convince her otherwise. It's her decisions that are made in the end by her. I almost think that if she did open a little, yes she would relive the emotions, yes I would as well, it would be hell at times. But is she so right in her mind that even the smallest possibility of seeing us differently might cause her to look at what she feels and what she's said? I know she's a firm believer in christianity. I know she thinks she's not lived up to it. But I don't see God as being an advocate for ever leaving a marriage unless there's violence or infidelity, let alone leaving it this way where everything is left behind b/c the WS feels 'great' about the new life. I'm still left with everything in the open. I get general reasons why this is the way it is, but not anything deeper. Just a lot of older times brought up to put an exclamation point on her reasons. Never _why_ though. And it's ironic b/c us not talking about our feelings and being clear emotionally to each other is what started most of this. If anyone has anything to add to or comment about this, please do.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

I've been thinking a lot again today of my last post. If anyone could please lend their honest thoughts on it I'd be grateful.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Sorry LT kinda at the same point so can't help advice.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Lost, if she won't work with you, you have to let her go.

Give her the letter I told you about. Or you could call and tell her.


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## Hope4me (May 3, 2011)

lost_&_trying said:


> and that's just it. It seems she's focused herself in the mentality that nothing will ever change. That things I do change can't be trusted long term? I don't know how to break through and give her that sliver of hope that things can change, are changing and will continue far into the future. It makes me so unbearably sad inside that she sees things this way. Seems she has thought about her reasons for leaving so much that any of the countless good times we've shared mean nothing anymore. All those smiles and laughs we've had keep running through my head only to be overpowered by the exact opposite of who she's become b/c of all this. And despite all that, I still love her more than anything.


Sounds almost verbatim to what I experienced with my wife. I'd massage her legs/shoulders every night several months before we separated and seemed to be getting along, but like night and day, those good times we shared didn't seem to matter.


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## lost_&_trying (Apr 4, 2011)

Trying to build up that strength to send it jelly...been NC for over a week now. She's got relatives in town visiting so i know she's nowhere close to even thinking about us. This NC sucks. Do you think it'll even be noticed by her? Obviously that letter would be a last stand. I don't think she'd blink at it to be honest, but I appreciate the dignity it preserves. I'm as close to hell as I've ever been going through all this right now and am just hesitant about sending it while visitors are there. Seeing as she wouldn't have time to think about it alone and hear what I'm trying to say.


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