# Couldn't make it up if I tried



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Buddy of mine divorce was finalized a couple months ago. It was a brutal divorce - she cheated, got caught, fought the divorce tooth and nail the whole way.

We sat around having a few beers to celebrate. I asked him, did you ever DNA your kids. And he hadn't - his response what would be the point. I'm sure they're my kids

My response - it's not about if they are your kids, it's to show her how little you trust anything she has ever said in your relationship.

Nothing more happened with that talk. It was just intellectual banter and he was done with it.

He calls me up a few days ago to come over.

He had actually done a DNA on both his kids.

Shock one - they're not his kids. Shock two - they have different fathers. All my buddy could do is laugh.

I asked what he was going to do - his response was priceless - Nothing. They're mine. They're going to stay mine. I'm not going to let her f*** this up too. I'll keep this piece of paper and every time I get stupid and think fondly of her, I'll pull this out and get myself right with reality.

I asked - Will you tell your kids they have different fathers - yeah, just not right now. I'm going to need some time on figuring out how to do that without ruining their view of their mother. I have no right to do that, especially when she is real good at doing that on her own.

For all the nonsense, he is in a good mood. In a good place and happy with how his life is now that she's out of it


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## higgsb (Apr 4, 2016)

> For all the nonsense, he is in a good mood. In a good place and happy with how his life is now that she's out of it


He's probably in shock. Let him dwell on it for a few years and I can't imagine he'll stay in such a good mood.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Wow. Amazing.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

Yanno, I'm just not that good of a human being to raise someone else's child as my own.

It would be different if I had agreed to adopt on the front end, but to have this kind of Hell trust on you without your knowledge through a double betrayal ... I just couldn't/wouldn't. At the very least, I think he should use this new information to challenge being ordered to pay child support. He can voluntarily choose to support the kids on his own, but for a woman to betray and deceive him into being forced to support other men's children is particularly evil.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

americansteve said:


> He's probably in shock. Let him dwell on it for a few years and I can't imagine he'll stay in such a good mood.


Especially when paying child support.


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

MyRevelation said:


> ... At the very least, I think he should use this new information to challenge being ordered to pay child support. He can voluntarily choose to support the kids on his own, but for a woman to betray and deceive him into being forced to support other men's children is particularly evil.


Yikes. I agree. When you have two of your own biological children in the near future (hopefully), I would have a tough time justifying paying child support for another man's children when I have my own biological mouths to feed. Honestly, I am very unforgiving about this. I think she should go to prison for fraud. And for this to work, she would have had to have been sexually active with these other men at the same time as with her husband. Probably more sexually active with the other men since the children are not even his. AND she was doing it unprotected with other men. And she probably exposed her husband to HPV and other STDs. 

Ugh.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your friend's bastards won't have a clue what hereditary crap they might have until it's to late.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

your buddy has class


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

So freaking sad. Paternity fraud is the sickest crime. Which the courts look the other way on. DNA testing should be mandatory at birth to make sure a father is informed before having his name put on birth certificate. 

Why a man would willingly continue with this outrage after learning the truth. Now his resources will go to support another man's kid. This can limit him when looking for a future wife. She's know that any resource that she needs for their kids will be partially diverted to support the ex's kids, which are not even his.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Wow, I don't know what I'd do. I sure as hell wouldn't want my cheating wife to get a nice chunk of my pay check each month. I'd consult an attorney and see what my options are.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

snerg said:


> I asked what he was going to do - his response was priceless - Nothing. They're mine. They're going to stay mine. I'm not going to let her f*** this up too.


Good for him. If he's raised them since babies then they are his children. It's all very easy to say ditch them and get away from child support but they have done nothing wrong and don't deserve to loose the only father they know. Turning off your feelings to two children you have raised is probably easier said than done.

They need a father figure and it sounds like he is a pretty good one. 

He may have some leverage to have support reduced or eliminated without them knowing but if he discloses this info then she may be able to shut him out of their lives, which sounds like he doesn't want.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Ugh, I hope this isn't my story, I've always had doubts my youngest was mine. She's 24 now and happily expecting her first child. 

I will probably leave it alone though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> Wow, I don't know what I'd do. I sure as hell wouldn't want my cheating wife to get a nice chunk of my pay check each month. I'd consult an attorney and see what my options are.


This is very likely the majority answer. 

I would let her [and her family] know the results. I would give them hard copies of the report. A verbal offering would be called fallacious. 

Let HER tell the children. 

After the exposure I too would consult an attorney on any CS payments assigned.

These poor innocent children, what a way to start out a life.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

My daughters are 12 and 14. If I found out today that they are not mine, I would divorce but I would remain their dad. I could not do that to them or myself. But, if they were very young, say less than 5 or 6, I probably would push this issue with a lawyer then let the mother deal with getting support from the real fathers.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Stories like these are why I believe in mandatory paternity tests after birth.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

It will never happen, but a woman should spend a year in prison for every year they lie about a child's paternity.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Slow Hand said:


> Ugh, I hope this isn't my story, I've always had doubts my youngest was mine. She's 24 now and happily expecting her first child.
> 
> I will probably leave it alone though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get a DNA sample from the grandkid. It will obviously be too young to know what your doing for quite a wile. Then use your own DNA. You can buy a kit at about any drug store, Amazon or WalMart. You just swab a Q-tip on the inside of the cheek and send the kit to a lab. Tell the lab that you are the grandparent.

You don't have to be the parent, you can even be a distant relative. I had my DNA tested at ancsetory.com and they were able to find 3rd and 4th cousins of mine.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Slow Hand said:


> Ugh, I hope this isn't my story, I've always had doubts my youngest was mine. She's 24 now and happily expecting her first child.
> 
> I will probably leave it alone though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At. Age 24- I would let it go unless there is a medical reason to address it. If it was a young child I would not let it go, but that is me.

You can certainly use something like ancestory.com to build your family tree. Check it out, that would work if you wanted to know.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Your buddy seems like one hell of a guy!

Tell him he needs to join us here at TAM! He'd be a hoot to converse with!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

He loves his children. Nothing wrong with that. It takes a good, strong man not to walk away.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

bandit.45 said:


> He loves his children. Nothing wrong with that. It takes a good, strong man not to walk away.


I totally agree with that, however the reality is often very very different.

Somebody else needs to know this information (and keep a copy of the test reports), for starters. Keeping this information from anybody else could prove to be a mistake. Keeping this information from his stbxw could prove to be fraud, provided she doesn't know.

And there lies the rub - she probably does know. She knew full well she was sleeping with other men during the times she got pregnant. The likelihood she got them tested immediately after their births is high, IMO. It's good information to have in one's back pocket.

IMO, if this guy plans on telling the kids at some point, then what's the difference, honestly? Given the choice, I'd prefer I knew something like that when I was young, not when it would probably be a massive shock. Kids generally don't start to "get" things until they're 11, 12, 13 or thereabouts. You tell them this information at that age or later, and the first thing that they'll think of is "mom's a ***** and a cheater". Tell them when they're too young to know what those things are, they'll grow up with that information, and years to prepare them for that day when they DO know what those words mean, but it won't be a shock.

IMO, it's better the kids know sooner, rather than later. Who knows how they'd react to HIM, never mind their mother?


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

I believe he made the best choice for the children and himself. 

While the children need to know their history. It's really a matter of timing. 

As to child support..I would have it reduced...not to avoid caring for the children -I would continue to supply whatever they needed and would remain their father -but to ENSURE that the woman that did this horrible thing to the children, the husband, and the real fathers...could NEVER EVER benefit from her fraud.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

jsmart said:


> Why a man would willingly continue with this outrage after learning the truth? Now his resources will go to support another man's kid. This can limit him when looking for a future wife. She's know that any resource that she needs for their kids will be partially diverted to support the ex's kids, which are not even his.


Because he's the exact kind of man his WW was looking for.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The children do have a right to know their biological background. The mother needs to get that information for health reasons.

The divorced dad could still be in the children's lives and not pay child support. Yeah, any new woman is going to look at him like he has two heads if he keeps paying. Also, he better get on it quick or the courts could have something unpleasant to say.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I commend you friends decision, and I doubt he contemplated very long, he is, and always will be their father. A step dad may enter the picture in time, but he is still dad in the eyes of the children. It is the same for me, I am their dad, they are my children. The children are innocent, period. The adult is to blame, any and all consequences should be directed at the adult, never the children. How does one punish a baby? Did they ask to be born? Did they commit a crime towards you? I look at my twins and see two beautiful boys, boys who deserve love. Boys who deserve a father. Boys who should play and act like silly children. Boys who need food, clothing, and shelter. Boys who need a loving and caring setting in which to be raised. Boys who came into this world loved by the father, who cried when he witnessed their birth. 

The feeling I had when I held each of them for the first time, and when I held them together for the first time was truly magical. The first time they look up at you, the first time they grab your finger, the first time they fall asleep in your arms, truly magical. Now that my boys are four we are having the time of our lives!! Each day brings so many smiles to you face, your heart skipping a beat with true happiness. How could I just walk out of their life? How do you turn your back on an innocent human being unable to provide for themselves? In my case I didn't, these boys are my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Children need to know ASAP for genetic reasons. When I was pregnant with my son, they suspected he had down syndrome. We had to do an entire genetic profile to see what the risk was, going back a long ways on both sides of the family. From there they determined risk factors and decided to do further (non-invasive) testing. If the genetic history had been inaccurate, things could have turned out much differently.

Also, for example, my sister had cancer. She got it at the age of 43. Breast cancer at 43 is pretty early. Due to that, I had to start having mammograms at 35. When I talked to my OBGYN about genetic testing, apparently, they have to test the person WITH cancer to determine it was genetic. If they tested me and it came back as positive, it could be a false positive. But if they tested her and it came back positive, that meant it would be positive for me. If it would have been positive for me, my doctor was recommending a mastectomy and ovectomy. Can you imagine how horrible it would have been if I’d had a mastectomy and ovectomy to come back and find out my sister had different DNA than I did and I’d undergone major surgery due to thinking I was genetically inclined to cancer and possibly wasn’t?

There are SO many reasons people need to know who their biological parents are. Medical reasons being a HUGE one.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

snerg said:


> Buddy of mine divorce was finalized a couple months ago. *It was a brutal divorce - she cheated, got caught, fought the divorce tooth and nail the whole way*.


In most states you can’t contest paternity after the divorce is final. If he knew about it before the divorce was final and didn’t mention it then he’s in even worse shape for trying to change the child support. Depending on the state he may be screwed. 

If he’s going to be a saint at least he should get what he can. His ex sounds like a shrew. I would tell her that I know just to shut her up. She may behave herself better if she knows he can nuke her reputation even more than it already is.

*The betrayal of the sex is nothing compared to letting him and his parents think that they were his. After doing it twice she has earned her own level of hell*


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Graywolf2 said:


> After doing it twice she has earned her own level of hell


We are all assuming she knew. 

Where there's smoke there's fire and if she has two baby daddies she's probably screwed many more who didn't impregnate her. She may not even know because of all the over lapping sex going on between the betrayed hubby and the serial APs within the same timespan. She didn't care because this BS was her built in provider beta chump. OP's friend's life is a bad episode of Maury Povich.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

snerg said:


> Buddy of mine divorce was finalized a couple months ago. It was a brutal divorce - she cheated, got caught, fought the divorce tooth and nail the whole way.
> 
> We sat around having a few beers to celebrate. I asked him, did you ever DNA your kids. And he hadn't - his response what would be the point. I'm sure they're my kids
> 
> ...


I would not worry, if I was him, about making her look bad. The kids deserve to know that it came from infidelity. She contested the divorce because she wanted to sugar daddy him and now he needs to stop respecting her image and finish her off


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

drifting on said:


> I commend you friends decision, and I doubt he contemplated very long, he is, and always will be their father. A step dad may enter the picture in time, but he is still dad in the eyes of the children. It is the same for me, I am their dad, they are my children. The children are innocent, period. The adult is to blame, any and all consequences should be directed at the adult, never the children. How does one punish a baby? Did they ask to be born? Did they commit a crime towards you? I look at my twins and see two beautiful boys, boys who deserve love. Boys who deserve a father. Boys who should play and act like silly children. Boys who need food, clothing, and shelter. Boys who need a loving and caring setting in which to be raised. Boys who came into this world loved by the father, who cried when he witnessed their birth.
> 
> The feeling I had when I held each of them for the first time, and when I held them together for the first time was truly magical. The first time they look up at you, the first time they grab your finger, the first time they fall asleep in your arms, truly magical. Now that my boys are four we are having the time of our lives!! Each day brings so many smiles to you face, your heart skipping a beat with true happiness. How could I just walk out of their life? How do you turn your back on an innocent human being unable to provide for themselves? In my case I didn't, these boys are my life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because their biological dads and their Mom need to step to the plate. And I don't think anyone blames the kids in this case or 'punishes them' but if someone wants to volunteer to be the saint or martyr, that's on them. Most can't and would not do it. Those who have affairs need to face their consequences. To me, it's not about the kids, it's about what is fair to me and who should ahve responsibility. Obviously, you disagree but I could never do what you are doing.

I am glad it's working out for you, Drifting On but it should not be the job of the betrayed spouse to support children that aren't his that are born due to an affair


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

drifting on said:


> The feeling I had when I held each of them for the first time, and when I held them together for the first time was truly magical. The first time they look up at you, the first time they grab your finger, the first time they fall asleep in your arms, truly magical.


This is so very true and you expressed it so well. I experienced the same with my kids. Bonding is almost a physical force. I could see it when my wife first held our son. I remember thinking at that moment that my wife would kill anyone that harmed this stranger she had just met. 

*What kind of human being allows this to happen and doesn’t tell the truth? *


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> He loves his children. Nothing wrong with that. It takes a good, strong man not to walk away.


I agree but the expectation should not be there and if he did walk away, he shouldn't be blamed for 'abandoning the kids'. The biological fathers and the cheating mom were the ones who hurt the kids, not the betrayed spouse who walks away.

Not disagreeing with you Bandit, just making a sidebar comment. That's all


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

The duped dad is as much of a victim as the children. 

Shame on anyone who would guilt him into living a lie.

If he chooses to be their father then fine but it is unequivocally optional.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> Because their biological dads and their Mom need to step to the plate. And I don't think anyone blames the kids in this case or 'punishes them' but if someone wants to volunteer to be the saint or martyr, that's on them. Most can't and would not do it. Those who have affairs need to face their consequences. To me, it's not about the kids, it's about what is fair to me and who should ahve responsibility. Obviously, you disagree but I could never do what you are doing.
> 
> I am glad it's working out for you, Drifting On but it should not be the job of the betrayed spouse to support children that aren't his that are born due to an affair


Yes, adoption is great and very rewarding but you do it with your eyes open. Give the betrayed spouse an informed chance to step up to the plate. Don’t lie to them for years. 

I know this sounds horrible but some people want to have their own biological children. The lying spouse is robbing them of that. 

Don’t let these poor excuses for a human being hide behind the innocent, wonderful, sweet, angelic children. It's repugnant for them to be used that way.

For a woman to do this to a man who thinks she loves him enough to give him a child is the lowest form of betrayal. 

*“To me, the thing that is worse than death is betrayal. You see, I could conceive death, but I could not conceive betrayal.” 

Malcolm X*


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Nope nothing wrong with him staying at all. Nothing wrong with a man who decides to leave he is no weaker nor is he less strong.


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

I wouldn't tell the kids either. I also wouldn't tell my WW that I knew because I wouldn't want her to get out in front of this. When the youngest was like 16 or so I would sit them down and tell them the whole story. I would want them to know about their mom's cheating and tell them that they need to find out who their biological fathers are from her - if she knows. I think the kids should have that information so they can know about their genetic history. Anyway, I'd like to think this is how I would handle it. 

However - I have a tremendously dangerous temper. When someone wrongs me in any way I need to chill myself out until I can think. I've had to work on this for years and I've gotten it under control. It's the old "count to ten" thing and it's a cliche because it works and keeps people like me out of prison. I'm afraid that finding something like this out - that I'm not the father of my children - I would allow my temper to roam without restraint and end up in jail. I'm not condoning violence here, just saying that in a case like this I certainly would understand it.


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> The duped dad is as much of a victim as the children.
> 
> Shame on anyone who would guilt him into living a lie.
> 
> If he chooses to be their father then fine but it is unequivocally optional.


This is the biggest fraud anyone could possibly commit. The impact on a man's life is incalculable. 

I agree. Honestly, the mother should be jailed and pay the defrauded non-dad a hefty fine to compensate for the inferred child support already spent to date and time lost to the fraud. Child support should be collected from the biological fathers only and the defrauded non-dad should have the option of custody (up to 1 week per month). Also, the biological fathers should pay back child support calculated from birth to the defrauded non-dad. Primary custody should go to the biological fathers unless they are as much a criminal as the mother.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I think the kids need to know for medical reasons eventually (I don't know how old they are).

But, it's possible ex wife doesn't know they aren't his. And if he lets it out, she could use it as reason to keep them from him and by what sounds like all definitions of the word he is their dad. 

I respect that he wants to stay their dad though. That's pretty ****ing amazing.

Maybe when they're 18? Ugh I don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Graywolf2 said:


> Get a DNA sample from the grandkid. It will obviously be too young to know what your doing for quite a wile. Then use your own DNA. You can buy a kit at about any drug store, Amazon or WalMart. You just swab a Q-tip on the inside of the cheek and send the kit to a lab. Tell the lab that you are the grandparent.
> 
> You don't have to be the parent, you can even be a distant relative. I had my DNA tested at ancsetory.com and they were able to find 3rd and 4th cousins of mine.



Thanks. I may do it for me down the road, I have to let the divorce blow over first. 

She tried threatening me with alimony (good luck, lol) threatened to not give me a divorce at all and is now stalling. I offered her an uncontested divorce and we both walk away in peace, or I go scorched earth/nuclear. 

She has until next Wednesday to comply.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> We are all assuming she knew.
> .


No. I know she hid the paternity issue 100%.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

MyRevelation said:


> Yanno, I'm just not that good of a human being to raise someone else's child as my own.
> 
> It would be different if I had agreed to adopt on the front end, but to have this kind of Hell trust on you without your knowledge through a double betrayal ... I just couldn't/wouldn't. At the very least, I think he should use this new information to challenge being ordered to pay child support. He can voluntarily choose to support the kids on his own, but for a woman to betray and deceive him into being forced to support other men's children is particularly evil.


Just so everyone knows - the kids are in their mid to late teens and they live with him. Didn't mean to leave that out, just didn't realize until people started on child support and waling away.

They're too old to walk away and he's raised them from birth so he is their father, just not their biological dad.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> Children need to know ASAP for genetic reasons. When I was pregnant with my son, they suspected he had down syndrome. We had to do an entire genetic profile to see what the risk was, going back a long ways on both sides of the family. From there they determined risk factors and decided to do further (non-invasive) testing. If the genetic history had been inaccurate, things could have turned out much differently.
> 
> Also, for example, my sister had cancer. She got it at the age of 43. Breast cancer at 43 is pretty early. Due to that, I had to start having mammograms at 35. When I talked to my OBGYN about genetic testing, apparently, they have to test the person WITH cancer to determine it was genetic. If they tested me and it came back as positive, it could be a false positive. But if they tested her and it came back positive, that meant it would be positive for me. If it would have been positive for me, my doctor was recommending a mastectomy and ovectomy. Can you imagine how horrible it would have been if I’d had a mastectomy and ovectomy to come back and find out my sister had different DNA than I did and I’d undergone major surgery due to thinking I was genetically inclined to cancer and possibly wasn’t?
> 
> There are SO many reasons people need to know who their biological parents are. Medical reasons being a HUGE one.


He will.

Like I said earlier, he's going to deal with it later (as in not toady but a few weeks). 

He does realize that he needs to get information in case of medical issue. He had another priceless quote - I hope she can remember who each kids father was. 

He's a good guy. This will roll off his back. As he puts it, it's just another brick in the wall of nonsense that she built


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

That man is amazing. Truly amazing.
Wow to put up with that disloyal woman & stand by the kids. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Graywolf2 said:


> Yes, adoption is great and very rewarding but you do it with your eyes open. Give the betrayed spouse an informed chance to step up to the plate. Don’t lie to them for years.
> 
> I know this sounds horrible but some people want to have their own biological children. The lying spouse is robbing them of that.
> 
> ...



I agree 100%


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> The duped dad is as much of a victim as the children.
> 
> Shame on anyone who would guilt him into living a lie.
> 
> If he chooses to be their father then fine but it is unequivocally optional.



yes This !!


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## higgsb (Apr 4, 2016)

This thread has got me thinking how, if there is a cheating gene, paternity testing at birth along with abortion on demand could potential eliminate that horrid cheating gene after a few generations.

If a married woman is out [email protected] it up and gets pregnant, and she knew the baby would be paternity tested, she'll have two choices: abort a potential mamzer or have the kid no matter what. 

Lets say she chooses to have a potential mamzer. If it turns out not to be her husbands kid, most men would walk and the mamzer population would be at AT LEAST a 2% disadvantage and probably much more. Now any population at a 2% disadvantage will be displaced so the non-mamzer population would displace the mamzer population and with it goes that cheating gene.

Most wayward women though would probably just abort. I'm guessing by and a large a woman that cheats won't hesitate to abort a potential mamzer if she knows there is mandatory paternity testing at birth.

Technology is at the point where we could eliminate this curse - assuming of course that cheating is somehow genetic.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LOL. So, how are you going to eliminate the cheating men passing on the gene? Oh, this only applies to women and marriage right? That's if I believe there is a gene to cheat. Let me know if marriage is a gene or societal pressure or belief while you are it. When you are done, please research monogamy as well. You know, before you start offering up killing unborn children because your wife cheated on you.

Good lord, I am always amazed at how people do not logically think things through before they talk or write a comment.


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## higgsb (Apr 4, 2016)

> LOL. So, how are you going to eliminate the cheating men passing on the gene? Oh, this only applies to women and marriage right?


Well the cheating man isn't going to impregnate another man - he's going to impregnate a cheating woman. I guess there's always the chance that the woman doesn't know she's sleeping with a married man but how often does that happen?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Right because every woman knows the man is married or in a serious relationship right? Just like there is no such thing as paternity fraud.

Keep trying though, it is entertaining. Eventually, you'll create a scenario so ridiculous you'll be 100% correct. Still, at that point it will have absolutely nothing to do with your original comment.


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## higgsb (Apr 4, 2016)

> Keep trying though, it is entertaining. Eventually, you'll create a scenario so ridiculous you'll be 100% correct. Still, at that point it will have absolutely nothing to do with your original comment.


I don't claim to be an evolutionary biologist, but this is the kind of argument they would make. The only assumption I'm making here is that cheating is genetic. You seem to laugh knowingly and dismiss away but you really haven't said anything to dispute my point.

I'm curious: do you believe in evolution or are you more of a creationist?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> you really haven't said anything to dispute my point.


 Sure I did. 





> I'm curious: do you believe in evolution or are you more of a creationist?


I always like dismissive comments rolled up in allegedly curious questions. Sorry, you'll have to see if someone else will take the bait.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

wantshelp said:


> This is the biggest fraud anyone could possibly commit. The impact on a man's life is incalculable.
> 
> I agree. Honestly, the mother should be jailed and pay the defrauded non-dad a hefty fine to compensate for the inferred child support already spent to date and time lost to the fraud. Child support should be collected from the biological fathers only and the defrauded non-dad should have the option of custody (up to 1 week per month). Also, the biological fathers should pay back child support calculated from birth to the defrauded non-dad. Primary custody should go to the biological fathers unless they are as much a criminal as the mother.


You're thinking vengefully, not logically. Are you really proposing to rip innocent children, who had NO part in the deception, from the only parents they know and love and give them to an unprepared stranger with poor morals?

That's the part the law has trouble with. They choose the path that causes the least amount of damage to the children. Which is generally giving the cheater mom custody and making the non-biological betrayed father pay support.

I'm all for the betrayed fathers being able to sue the cheating mothers for damages though, in an amount that at minimum accounts for the lifetime of CS payments. Much more if, say, the fathers had vasectomies or were otherwise prevented from having their own biological children.

And definitely, the biological fathers should be tracked down to the extent possible and also be made to pay child support, and share medical history.

As for telling teenagers that their dad has just learned they are not biologically his, and only half related to one another, it's best done as soon as possible, or their trust in their dad will be chipped away if they learn he kept that secret from them. But don't just blurt it out either, maybe get a counselor of some sort involved. If the dad has custody, then the daughters probably already have a low opinion of their mother.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> Children need to know ASAP for genetic reasons. When I was pregnant with my son, they suspected he had down syndrome. We had to do an entire genetic profile to see what the risk was, going back a long ways on both sides of the family. From there they determined risk factors and decided to do further (non-invasive) testing. If the genetic history had been inaccurate, things could have turned out much differently.
> 
> Also, for example, my sister had cancer. She got it fat the age of 43. Breast cancer at 43 is pretty early. Due to that, I had to start having mammograms at 35. When I talked to my OBGYN about genetic testing, apparently, they have to test the person WITH cancer to determine it was genetic. If they tested me and it came back as positive, it could be a false positive. But if they tested her and it came back positive, that meant it would be positive for me. If it would have been positive for me, my doctor was recommending a mastectomy and ovectomy. Can you imagine how horrible it would have been if I’d had a mastectomy and ovectomy to come back and find out my sister had different DNA than I did and I’d undergone major surgery due to thinking I was genetically inclined to cancer and possibly wasn’t?
> 
> There are SO many reasons people need to know who their biological parents are. Medical reasons being a HUGE one.


One of my sons has Down Syndrome. It is one of the biggest blessing I could have been given. Taught me patience and empathy. If We had done testing ,I would have done nothing differently.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> Children need to know ASAP for genetic reasons. When I was pregnant with my son, they suspected he had down syndrome. We had to do an entire genetic profile to see what the risk was, going back a long ways on both sides of the family. From there they determined risk factors and decided to do further (non-invasive) testing. If the genetic history had been inaccurate, things could have turned out much differently.
> 
> Also, for example, my sister had cancer. She got it at the age of 43. Breast cancer at 43 is pretty early. Due to that, I had to start having mammograms at 35. When I talked to my OBGYN about genetic testing, apparently, they have to test the person WITH cancer to determine it was genetic. If they tested me and it came back as positive, it could be a false positive. But if they tested her and it came back positive, that meant it would be positive for me. If it would have been positive for me, my doctor was recommending a mastectomy and ovectomy. Can you imagine how horrible it would have been if I’d had a mastectomy and ovectomy to come back and find out my sister had different DNA than I did and I’d undergone major surgery due to thinking I was genetically inclined to cancer and possibly wasn’t?
> 
> There are SO many reasons people need to know who their biological parents are. Medical reasons being a HUGE one.


Why,if they are still kids?


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

wmn1 said:


> Because their biological dads and their Mom need to step to the plate. And I don't think anyone blames the kids in this case or 'punishes them' but if someone wants to volunteer to be the saint or martyr, that's on them. Most can't and would not do it. Those who have affairs need to face their consequences. To me, it's not about the kids, it's about what is fair to me and who should ahve responsibility. Obviously, you disagree but I could never do what you are doing.
> 
> I am glad it's working out for you, Drifting On but it should not be the job of the betrayed spouse to support children that aren't his that are born due to an affair


Have not had a family law course in over 35 years,but I doubt there is anything he can do re support,at least in most states. Worth asking a local attorney.
I would support the kids. I would be to bonded to them to do otherwise.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

wmn1 said:


> Because their biological dads and their Mom need to step to the plate. And I don't think anyone blames the kids in this case or 'punishes them' but if someone wants to volunteer to be the saint or martyr, that's on them. Most can't and would not do it. Those who have affairs need to face their consequences. To me, it's not about the kids, it's about what is fair to me and who should ahve responsibility. Obviously, you disagree but I could never do what you are doing.
> 
> I am glad it's working out for you, Drifting On but it should not be the job of the betrayed spouse to support children that aren't his that are born due to an affair


 I would feel morally obligated,regardless of the law. Just me.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> You're thinking vengefully, not logically. Are you really proposing to rip innocent children, who had NO part in the deception, from the only parents they know and love and give them to an unprepared stranger with poor morals?
> 
> That's the part the law has trouble with. They choose the path that causes the least amount of damage to the children. Which is generally giving the cheater mom custody and making the non-biological betrayed father pay support.
> 
> ...


Funny you mention that, she's been on me for the last 6 years to get a vasectomy, glad I didn't, I still want more kids!:grin2: is 48 too old for more kids? :surprise:


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Infidelity should be illegal. Simple as that. And if it turns out the children are not the "husbands" - then he should not pay childsupport. Simple as that.

"lets see, if I band this man's wife and they get divorced, I can be thrown in jail for 6 months and pay $10,000 restitution" - maybe it WON'T happen so much!

Logic and common sense... too difficult to understand.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Slow Hand said:


> Funny you mention that, she's been on me for the last 6 years to get a vasectomy, glad I didn't, I still want more kids!:grin2: is 48 too old for more kids? :surprise:


No. Not for a man.

I am ignorant to the facts of potential issues for women having babies later in age. I know there are issues, I just don't know what they are or could be. 

But thing to remember - If you conceive today, you'll be 49 when the kid is born. You'll be nearly 68 when they are graduating from high school.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

drifter777 said:


> When the youngest was like 16 or so I would sit them down and tell them the whole story. I would want them to know about their mom's cheating and tell them that they need to find out who their biological fathers are from her - if she knows. I think the kids should have that information so they can know about their genetic history. Anyway, I'd like to think this is how I would handle it.


Personally, I think mid-teens is the wrong age to drop that kind of bombshell. They'd be old enough to understand what their mother is, but probably not mature enough to handle it properly and it would be infinitely more difficult for them to deal with, at that age. Teenagers have enough drama and stuff to live with as it is.

I have a 15 year old step son, who is fairly mature for his age (relative to most of his friends), but even he thinks he knows it all from time to time. The way teenagers deal with things are often irrational and overly magnified. Hormones and stupidity often get in the way of making GOOD decisions, but that's also part of the learning process of growing up.

There's no 'right' age to drop this kind of information on someone, but there are probably some that should be avoided, IMO. It's too bad these kids aren't younger (they're mid-late teens according to OP) as learning this info prior to them fully understanding it would be preferable. Let them grow into it.

You tell them when they're teenagers, they're likely to be mad at you AND their mother.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Maxo said:


> Have not had a family law course in over 35 years,but I doubt there is anything he can do re support,at least in most states. Worth asking a local attorney.
> I would support the kids. I would be to bonded to them to do otherwise.


I am involved in Family Law, maxo. There are 4 grounds to argue against it although the case for the man seems harder as time goes on in the child's life. In Drifting On's case, most states would allow him out of being forced to support the children. He could claim paternity fraud and no duty and would probably win.

I know he won't and my objection has nothing to do with his decision, my objection has everything to do with the guilt trip or shaming that some project upon the betrayed spouse to sit there and raise their wife's affair child. I've seen it on this baord, from several people. As BetrayedDad said, the option, upon discovery, should lie completely with the betrayed spouse and there should be absolutely no ill feelings if they decide to walk away. 

personally, adultery is enough to get me to divorce. Raising the kids of an affair and another biological dad would only serve as a daily reminder of what happened, breed further contempt for my wife, and financially hold me back. If I wanted kids, I would want them to be from my origin. 

On another note, filing based on adultery would be a slam dunk.

Sure, if the biological dad is a dirtball and won't pay or is dead, I would feel badly for the kids but it's not my job to destroy myself financially, mentally and emotionally to do it. And such a scenario would cause such damage.

I normally agree with you, Maxo but not on this one


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

TaDor said:


> Infidelity should be illegal. Simple as that. And if it turns out the children are not the "husbands" - then he should not pay childsupport. Simple as that.
> 
> "lets see, if I band this man's wife and they get divorced, I can be thrown in jail for 6 months and pay $10,000 restitution" - maybe it WON'T happen so much!
> 
> Logic and common sense... too difficult to understand.


I agree, but not as a punishable offense. North America is already too litigious as it is.

If one can prove infidelity (by any means, IMO, including recording devices or accessing personal email) then divorce should be quick and easy, with all the BS removed.

My ex wife left me for the OM, after 2 years of overlapping with both him and I. On the way out, she tried to get half of everything, including things (and money) that were not hers. She just assumed (or was told) that absolutely everything just got split 50/50, period, no questions asked. Thing was, 90% of the downpayment on our marital home was inheritance money I received after the death of my father and grandparents, and it was a good chunk of change, too.

I was lucky, in that I was able to prove, by paper trail, that that money was not hers, and she was not entitled to any of it. She was pissed, because she was banking on it to start her new life in a different country and get her through the period of time where she would have to learn a new language and be unemployed, while waiting for a visa. She had it all planned out 

If I didn't have 2 or 3 key pieces of paperwork (most importantly a photo copy of a cheque. Who keeps that??? My anal-retentive librarian mother, that's who!) she would have likely walked away with close to 6 figures to start her new life with the OM. Instead, she got just under 10k and paid most of the legal fees.

I remember talking to the lawyer and opining about how unfair it was, as she was unfaithful, and was trying to get all this money for this one purpose. He said the law doesn't look at divorce in that way (at least not where I live) and it doesn't matter what either person does, has done, or is doing.

I even told my ex wife, in person, nicely, calmly and politely, that she should just take her clothes, and whatever other possessions SHE owned, as well as 50% of the mortgage payments she had made over the ~2 years we owned that house, and call it a day. I even told her why - the only reason we owned this house in the first place is because my father and all my grandparents had died. I felt it was outright thievery that she was even attempting to lay claim to any of that money. Didn't seem to phase her.

Like I said, if I didn't have an airtight paper trail, she would have walked off with that money - money close family members saved and put away to ensure future generations of their family were taken care of.

THAT kind of thing should be illegal, or at least not even an option.


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

Has he been to see a counsellor or at least read any books on how to deal with the aftermath of infidelity? Any chance he might join this site?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> Because their biological dads and their Mom need to step to the plate. And I don't think anyone blames the kids in this case or 'punishes them' but if someone wants to volunteer to be the saint or martyr, that's on them. Most can't and would not do it. Those who have affairs need to face their consequences. To me, it's not about the kids, it's about what is fair to me and who should ahve responsibility. Obviously, you disagree but I could never do what you are doing.
> 
> I am glad it's working out for you, Drifting On but it should not be the job of the betrayed spouse to support children that aren't his that are born due to an affair




I don't consider myself a saint or a martyr, I'm just a man trying to live my life happily. I'm no different then anyone else. Perhaps we do disagree to a certain extent, but that's fine with me, we all have our opinions and beliefs. As for my wife and OM, these children are legally their responsibility. I learned they were not mine after d-day two and a half years later. I am the only father they know, they are my kids, I love them unconditionally. For me to exit their life would not be me, I am being me together with my boys. It's who I am, and I refuse to change who and what I am for my wife of the OM, in fact I won't change for anyone but me. I don't mean for that to seem rude or even ignorant, but I am who I am, just as you are who you are. 

It is not the responsibility of a BS to care or provide for children who are not biologically theirs, I would never want to imply that it is their responsibility. For me, for my beliefs, I will be their father, I will raise them to be fine young men any parent would be proud of. I do this for me, not anyone else, but for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Maxo said:


> Why,if they are still kids?


I stated in a later comment that I didn’t know how old the kids were and to maybe wait until they’re 18? My statement WAS kind of broad. I just meant that eventually they’d need to know for genetic purposes.

As far as my Downs Syndrome scare, I would not have terminated the pregnancy. But I WAS much younger (25 to be exact) I worked full time, had another child at home. We went further with the testing to see if we would need to make some major life changes. The current situation we were in would not have been ideal to bring a child into the world with special needs and things would have had to change drastically. One of my very good friends had a baby with DS a couple years back and I used to coach kids with DS in gymnastics for Special Olympics.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Women always know who is the father of the child.

His ex-wife is really bad woman. I wouldnt want her to my co-worker,friend or anything else. I only hope she change herself for the sake of her children. 

Your friend is really strong man and I wish him the best and his children.
When he feels ready he should tell them and both of them are lucky to have a good man like him in their lives.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

wmn1 said:


> I am involved in Family Law, maxo. There are 4 grounds to argue against it although the case for the man seems harder as time goes on in the child's life. In Drifting On's case, most states would allow him out of being forced to support the children. He could claim paternity fraud and no duty and would probably win.
> 
> I know he won't and my objection has nothing to do with his decision, my objection has everything to do with the guilt trip or shaming that some project upon the betrayed spouse to sit there and raise their wife's affair child. I've seen it on this baord, from several people. As BetrayedDad said, the option, upon discovery, should lie completely with the betrayed spouse and there should be absolutely no ill feelings if they decide to walk away.
> 
> ...


Good to know that the laws on paternity fraud have changed since I went to school. It is only right.
And, wmn. I did not mean to imply that it is wrong to walk away , but , merely, that I , personally, would not do it after having raised them for a while.
This is applicable to my case, as I have some doubts about some of my kids, but have never DNA tested, as I do not want to know and I think it would traumatize them.
But I have no objection to another person making a different decision on this and do not think my way is right for everyone.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> I stated in a later comment that I didn’t know how old the kids were and to maybe wait until they’re 18? My statement WAS kind of broad. I just meant that eventually they’d need to know for genetic purposes.
> 
> As far as my Downs Syndrome scare, I would not have terminated the pregnancy. But I WAS much younger (25 to be exact) I worked full time, had another child at home. We went further with the testing to see if we would need to make some major life changes. The current situation we were in would not have been ideal to bring a child into the world with special needs and things would have had to change drastically. One of my very good friends had a baby with DS a couple years back and I used to coach kids with DS in gymnastics for Special Olympics.


Like you , after our fit son was born with Down Syndrome, we tested prenatally our second child, not to consider terminating but to prepare. You are right. It is a real lot of work with a Down Syndrome child if there are health problems. My son had a heart defect and also had to have a Nissanfundipasty(sp?) for gastric reflux. Pneumonia was his middle name until the heart defect was fixed and he stop aspirating food etc.
Virtually sleepless for 4 years or so.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

This is just an observation. Many people think that who the biological father is isn’t a big deal. You have a healthy child that needs a father so what's the problem? It’s just a technicality and very primitive to concern yourself with such things. 

These people are mostly women. I think women can be so high minded because they know that their kids are biologically theirs. But what happens when the women isn’t the biological mother? If the baby is switched in the hospital all hell breaks loose and it make international news.

What happened to it being not a big deal? You went into the hospital hoping for a healthy baby and left with one. What’s the big deal?


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

Any man can be a father, but it takes a REAL man to be a Daddy. After raising kids, even if they are not biologically yours, you become attached. You are essentially a stepdad who stepped up to the plate to raise someone else's kids to the best of your ability. If you love them it is easy. Knowing that the kids' mother is a tramp, and that you are the closest thing to a real parent they have is all the more reason to continue to raise them as your own. I can certainly see the reasoning behind what the OP's friend is doing. Not that he is obligated to, just that he is man enough to be a Dad to them, and betraying them would not be an option. The kids will grow up one day soon, and once they find out their Dad was not their biological father, they will understand what kind of man he was for doing what he did for them.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Man I could not do it. Even if I could attempt to reconcile with a woman like that she would have to keep her pregnant self at family until delivery and then after giving baby up for adoption she could come back home.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

The betrayal lies with the mother not the father, even if he chooses to leave. Also, I dislike the comparisons between adoption, step-parenting and blended families in these discussions. Paternity fraud leaves the man without a choice, the other three are mutual decisions.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Maxo said:


> Good to know that the laws on paternity fraud have changed since I went to school. It is only right.
> And, wmn. I did not mean to imply that it is wrong to walk away , but , merely, that I , personally, would not do it after having raised them for a while.
> This is applicable to my case, as I have some doubts about some of my kids, but have never DNA tested, as I do not want to know and I think it would traumatize them.
> But I have no objection to another person making a different decision on this and do not think my way is right for everyone.


honestly Maxo, the laws differ from state to state although they have come around some to address the issue.

I get where you and Drifting On are coming from. 

I just wish that cases like these never existed. I sometimes wonder how the WW feels after watching their BH step to the plate and do the heavy lifting in supporting the kids that should be his rather than born out of an affair.

My initial thoughts were never to attack your position, I just couldn't do it. He11, I never wanted kids anyway, and have none, why would I want it that way ?

Sounds like you and Drifting On are good dads. The kids are lucky to have you two in tier lives


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> The betrayal lies with the mother not the father, even if he chooses to leave. Also, I dislike the comparisons between adoption, step-parenting and blended families in these discussions. Paternity fraud leaves the man without a choice, the other three are mutual decisions.


I agree completely !!!!!


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

In my state paternity is initially established by the mother and the presumed father signing a "Paternity Acknowledgement" that is typically signed in the hospital at the time of birth. You know, when a guys is totally vulnerable and is signing so much stuff he'll sign anything you put in front of him. It can be challenged after the fact if fraud is suspected, but only within the first 4 years. After that whoever is named the father on the Paternity Acknowledgment is the legal father for the purposes of a Parenting Plan or Residential Schedule or Child Support. Again, it can only be challenged by the presumed father within the first four years. 

I agree that there is no perfect age to tell the kids. Mid-teens seems reasonable to me but I'm certainly no expert. In fact, checking with a counselor would probably be a good idea..


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

alexm said:


> There's no 'right' age to drop this kind of information on someone, but there are probably some that should be avoided, IMO. It's too bad these kids aren't younger (they're mid-late teens according to OP) as learning this info prior to them fully understanding it would be preferable. Let them grow into it.
> 
> You tell them when they're teenagers, they're likely to be mad at you AND their mother.


I think, tell them when they are very young (6~8) and they may hear it, but not understand it. Then when they get older - they may ask about it when it makes more sense. Waiting to they are in their 20s or so... uh, it may never get easier. Kids have come to hate their parents in their 40s when they found out that one of them cheated and broke the family over it.

About older women having babies: early 20s is prime age for having kids. Over 30, that clock starts clicking down. 35+ is getting to be higher chances of problems. 40+ More likely of downs syndrome and other defects. 50+ uh...

Sorry, but females are born with their eggs and they have expiration dates. Males, we make new sperm every single day. But also with age, the quality and quantity goes down.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

alexm said:


> I agree, but not as a punishable offense. North America is already too litigious as it is.
> 
> If one can prove infidelity (by any means, IMO, including recording devices or accessing personal email) then divorce should be quick and easy, with all the BS removed.
> 
> ...


Considering people/business can get sued for conspiracy, physical and emotional harm. Infidelity should be an easy one.

I've had broken bones, people have been shot and rape - and most of us can still rate the betrayal as being MORE painful. I've (and others) have lost thousands of dollars in medical bills and and time with doctors, medication and legal, loss of work, etc.

First, the one WHO cheats = loses child custody and pays support. Kicked out of family home. The Affair partner should be SUED for all medical and legal bills of harm to the betrayed x 3. And of course they will have their own ISSUES if the AP is also married - OUCH.

Maybe THEN, only THEN will someone else think "Is it worth it for me to stick my penis in another married woman's V? Nope, I'll stick with strippers".

I think the laws were removed because a lot of lawmakers would be in deep trouble.

But this is just me.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Slow Hand said:


> Funny you mention that, she's been on me for the last 6 years to get a vasectomy, glad I didn't, I still want more kids!:grin2: is 48 too old for more kids? :surprise:


 I would not say it is too old. A close friend of mine caught his wife cheating. At the time he caught her (serial cheater) they had two college age kids. Divorced her.

A few years after the divorce he met a girl in church. He was 47 at the time she was 35. When things got serious she told him that due to a genetic blood disorder she was told that she could not get pregnant. All good with him as he did not want additional kids. 

They got married - eight months ago she gave birth to their 4th child. He is now 56 and has 4 kids under the age of 8.

He swears he wants to visit the doctor who said she could not get pregnant and make HIM pay child support.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

How about birth control after the first one? Pill, tube tied, derma shot, vasectomy?

vasectomy is about $500. I think I'll get one too.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

TaDor said:


> Considering people/business can get sued for conspiracy, physical and emotional harm. Infidelity should be an easy one.
> 
> I've had broken bones, people have been shot and rape - and most of us can still rate the betrayal as being MORE painful. I've (and others) have lost thousands of dollars in medical bills and and time with doctors, medication and legal, loss of work, etc.
> 
> ...


I fully agree with the sentiment behind it, but the logistics would be a nightmare. Just proving it beyond a reasonable doubt would be near-impossible. You'd almost have to have an HD quality video of the person in the act, but even then there'd have to be a way to prove the date and time. If the quality's bad "that's not me, that looks like me, but it isn't me". No date/time "that was 5 years ago", etc etc etc.

Even worse with an audio recording.

Email/text, etc "I got hacked" or "somebody set me up" or "my husband/wife has my password, it was them". I know my wife's email password, so technically I could send emails from her account if I wanted, pretending to be her.

If somebody wanted a divorce for any reason, and there was a way to set their partner up to ensure the financial balance was in their favor, you bet there would be people out there who would do that, especially if one partner has money. I'm willing to bet my ex wife would have done something like that, if it were possible, or at least thought about it.

And that's why this sort of thing isn't legal, unfortunately. There's really no possible way to prove infidelity beyond a reasonable doubt.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

With security cameras and recording devices, yes... its easy to DO JUST THAT. We talk about VARs in here. And if the betrayed husband plays in court - audio/video of his wife saying "My husband is loser, he left for work 30 mins ago - now you can come here and F-me like a dog" - I don't think that appears to be a consenting act on a marriage. Hell, why have any recording devices?

Another proof, record an argument/discussion of the affair with the cheater. DUH! Of course, that is tricky in states that do NOT allow that.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

TDSC60 said:


> I would not say it is too old. A close friend of mine caught his wife cheating. At the time he caught her (serial cheater) they had two college age kids. Divorced her.
> 
> A few years after the divorce he met a girl in church. He was 47 at the time she was 35. When things got serious she told him that due to a genetic blood disorder she was told that she could not get pregnant. All good with him as he did not want additional kids.
> 
> ...


WTH. Why didn't he buy condoms or get snipped or she get her tubes tied or go on B/C?

I could see one as an accident. That would have put me on guard.

Two, uh-uh. That diagnosis could be wrong and I would have made changes.

Three and four, come on. That's their fault. That's a failure to take responsibility for their actions.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

snerg said:


> Just so everyone knows - the kids are in their mid to late teens and they live with him. Didn't mean to leave that out, just didn't realize until people started on child support and waling away.
> 
> They're too old to walk away and he's raised them from birth so he is their father, just not their biological dad.


He probably knew in his gut that they were not his from the beginning. The DNA test just confirmed what he suspected all along. 

I admire him. 

Look, he has accepted the fact that his ex-wife is a cheating scumbag, and he has moved on from her, and it sounds like he doesn't give her any more credence than the gum on the sole of his shoe. She is a non-factor in his life. The days of her humiliating him are in the past. 

He is trying to raise these kids to be productive and good people. He's taking a bad situation and making the best of it. I doff my hat to him.

His ex is the loser and the fool in this situation. If we are to pity anyone it would be her. When these kids find out the truth it will destroy what little if any respect and regard they may have remaining for her.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> He loves his children. Nothing wrong with that. It takes a good, strong man not to walk away.


I usually agree with your posts and I've "liked" many of them.

This one is a notable exception.

A man that finds out his children were the progeny of an affair, who walks away is not "bad and weak". Yes the children will suffer if the man they have known as their father suddenly vanishes, but he is as much of a victim as they are and he cannot be faulted for making such a choice.

If it was me, I'd probably stay in the picture if they wanted me to and continue to help them financially if necessary, but I'd fight that court ordered child support payment to my exwife with every bone in my body.

I read somewhere that the percentage of children that are not the biological parents progeny (without his knowledge) is quite high, something like 20% i think.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Meh, it is society. Just like when women were told to stay married, to protect the family, while their husbands cheated and publicily kept mistresses. Society has almost always said "family first." You can see it an all of the posts bringing up adoption and blended families when this topic comes up. Shame the man by saying " a real man," "a strong man," "it's like being a step parent" or "look at adoptive parents" when it is just as hard to make the decision to leave children you love, when they are not biologically yours. To tell the truth, either side can argue the other is weak.

Both decisions are hard and neither choice makes you more or less of a man.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

TaDor said:


> How about birth control after the first one? Pill, tube tied, derma shot, vasectomy?
> 
> vasectomy is about $500. I think I'll get one too.


Waited til 40 to get a Vsect. Should of got it at 30. 1 hour under the knife out-patient. A day or 2 with an ice pack on the balls. Done with babies forever. Men need to take control and remove pregnancy from the equation.

Vasectomy about $500.00 out of pocket, No more WTF revelations... Priceless.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

TaDor said:


> How about birth control after the first one? Pill, tube tied, derma shot, vasectomy?
> 
> vasectomy is about $500. I think I'll get one too.


Mine cost the insurance company $800. As we'd already had a $65K delivery that year, we'd met the out of pocket maximum and it didn't cost us anything.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

alexm said:


> I fully agree with the sentiment behind it, but the logistics would be a nightmare. Just proving it beyond a reasonable doubt would be near-impossible. You'd almost have to have an HD quality video of the person in the act, but even then there'd have to be a way to prove the date and time. If the quality's bad "that's not me, that looks like me, but it isn't me". No date/time "that was 5 years ago", etc etc etc.
> 
> Even worse with an audio recording.
> 
> ...


They put people on death row based on a hair strand found somewhere at a crime scene and in civil cases the burden of proof is much less than criminal so I'll never buy the beyond reasonable doubt argument. In my situation I had pictures, a crystal clear video and the om willing to testify yet I'm pigeon holed into no fault to save someone embarrassment. Let's not kid ourselves about reasonable doubt. 

During the course of history people have stoned, branded, cut off body parts and a whole laundry list of "punishments" for adultery. None of those worked and I don't think it should be a put in jail punishable offense but in the world of divorce I should be allowed to pursue and utilize to get my best deal if I choose. 

As far as raising a child that turns out to not be mine. Well I'm glad I was never put in that position.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

honcho said:


> They put people on death row based on a hair strand found somewhere at a crime scene and in civil cases the burden of proof is much less than criminal so I'll never buy the beyond reasonable doubt argument. In my situation I had pictures, a crystal clear video and the om willing to testify yet I'm pigeon holed into no fault to save someone embarrassment. Let's not kid ourselves about reasonable doubt.
> 
> During the course of history people have stoned, branded, cut off body parts and a whole laundry list of "punishments" for adultery. None of those worked and I don't think it should be a put in jail punishable offense but in the world of divorce I should be allowed to pursue and utilize to get my best deal if I choose.
> 
> As far as raising a child that turns out to not be mine. Well I'm glad I was never put in that position.


I feel you.

I just think it's far easier to frame an affair than to frame a murder. And you better believe people would do that, if they had something to gain (or not lose) from it.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

alexm said:


> I feel you.
> 
> I just think it's far easier to frame an affair than to frame a murder. And you better believe people would do that, if they had something to gain (or not lose) from it.


And people get framed with false domestic abuse/child abuse claims all the time by people looking to gain. That's all fair game in divorce and can ruin a person's life much more than infidelity. Make any wild claim and suddenly you have cops and various state agencies crawling all over you. 

The system sucks and people will always figure ways to abuse it for an advantage.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Back in the 70s, when they started killing the Infidelity laws - that is logical. But with todays technology - it is SO easy to get proof of cheating.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

TaDor said:


> Back in the 70s, when they started killing the Infidelity laws - that is logical. But with todays technology - it is SO easy to get proof of cheating.


Well, either my STBXW didn't cheat or I suck at obtaining proof. Either that or work affairs are harder to find out about or my gut is broken. 

Or, maybe I am going crazy, like she often tells me. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

RWB said:


> Waited til 40 to get a Vsect. Should of got it at 30. 1 hour under the knife out-patient. A day or 2 with an ice pack on the balls. Done with babies forever. Men need to take control and remove pregnancy from the equation.
> 
> Vasectomy about $500.00 out of pocket, No more WTF revelations... Priceless.


I have been advised by my doctor never to consider a vasectomy. The dangly bits are too dangly apparently and it would leave me in great pain.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

honcho said:


> And people get framed with false domestic abuse/child abuse claims all the time by people looking to gain. That's all fair game in divorce and can ruin a person's life much more than infidelity. Make any wild claim and suddenly you have cops and various state agencies crawling all over you.
> 
> The system sucks and people will always figure ways to abuse it for an advantage.


The system sucks for a lot of things and it'll never be perfect, unfortunately. Bad people will take advantage when they can.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think making claims that your spouse is unfaithful in order to gain the upper hand in a divorce would be FAR too easy.

Not to mention that hidden recording devices are illegal almost anywhere, or at least inadmissible in a court. There are privacy laws for a reason, and it'd open up a whole can of worms if it's legal under certain circumstances only.

I don't disagree with the principal, it's the execution that's not possible, unfortunately.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

TaDor said:


> Back in the 70s, when they started killing the Infidelity laws - that is logical. But with todays technology - it is SO easy to get proof of cheating.


And SO easy to fake it, as well.

My wife and I know each other's passwords for everything. If one of us went into the others account and sent emails to a fake address that we set up, there could be a whole back and forth with a fake AP.

Not to mention fake texts or setting up your spouse with an account on a hook-up site, etc.

Thinking out loud here, but when my ex wife and I split up, I COULD have gathered enough proof of her infidelity if I had wanted to. I did ask my lawyer about that, and he told me it didn't matter one bit.

If it had mattered, and I gathered evidence, then she could have turned around and accused me of doing the same (which would have been false, btw). BUT, my current wife and I got in touch with each other during the last year of my marriage on Facebook. We even bumped into each other at a party at which my ex wife was not at. We had known each other for years, and had dated WAY back in the day.

About 4 months after my ex wife left, and we were still in the middle of the divorce proceedings, my current wife and I started dating.

So she could have had VERY circumstantial evidence that *I* had maybe, possibly cheated as well.

So how would the courts have decided things in that case, if it's possible BOTH parties were unfaithful? There was absolutely nothing incriminating on my side (because nothing happened) but it wouldn't have made me look very good and would have at least planted a seed of doubt.


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## Annette Tush (May 4, 2016)

snerg said:


> Buddy of mine divorce was finalized a couple months ago. It was a brutal divorce - she cheated, got caught, fought the divorce tooth and nail the whole way.
> 
> He had actually done a DNA on both his kids.
> 
> ...


Wow, such human beings still exist? I wouldn't do nothing. Once bitten twice shy. Such an ex- can even come at a later stage to claim these kids and that can get messy.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Mr The Other said:


> I have been advised by my doctor never to consider a vasectomy. The dangly bits are too dangly apparently and it would leave me in great pain.


Was this a general practitioner or a urologist that told you this??


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

snerg said:


> Was this a general practitioner or a urologist that told you this??


A urologist. I cannot really recall his reasoning, but if the situation arose he said there would be options for her that would be far less chronically painful.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Text messages are one thing... but I'm talking audio and video... and sorry, I think its SCREW privacy when your spouse is cheating on you. And with police cams on every corner, they are concerned with privacy?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

snerg said:


> WTH. Why didn't he buy condoms or get snipped or she get her tubes tied or go on B/C?
> 
> I could see one as an accident. That would have put me on guard.
> 
> ...


Practicing Catholic. Both of them.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Slow Hand said:


> Well, either my STBXW didn't cheat or I suck at obtaining proof. Either that or work affairs are harder to find out about or my gut is broken.
> 
> Or, maybe I am going crazy, like she often tells me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Workplace affairs can be damn near impossible to prove especially when the cheaters are careful and good at deception.

Face to face talk or office phones only. No voice mails. No emails or text messages.

Hook-ups during lunch or both get off a little early at the end of the work day or when spouses are working or busy or out of town.

I saw several work place affairs during my life. Most never got caught. 

One that did get caught was a woman who was scheduled for a two day trip. She told her husband that she would be gone for three days. On the third day she did not show up for work, did not call in. Supervisor became worried because he checked with employees she was traveling with and they confirmed that they had returned late the previous day and she was fine then. They called her husband wanting to know where she was and if everything was OK. Husband told them she said she was not due back until latter that same day - whoops - busted. She had spent the night with her OM and over slept.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm one of those weird people who always blunders into a secret rendezvous. I won't go into detail, but sexual harassment was her out. I was pretty pissed because she used something to protect legit people.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

TDSC60 said:


> Workplace affairs can be damn near impossible to prove especially when the cheaters are careful and good at deception.
> 
> Face to face talk or office phones only. No voice mails. No emails or text messages.
> 
> ...


100% true. 

Only way to suspect anything is if her behavior is off at home but if she has halfway decent acting skills.... You'd be none the wiser.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

BetrayedDad said:


> 100% true.
> 
> Only way to suspect anything is if her behavior is off at home but if she has halfway decent acting skills.... You'd be none the wiser.


Agreed...

So my wife has this LTA with her Boss (principal) she is a teacher. Most of the communication was face-to-face, some email but only work email. They would meet up in his private office after school or on weekends. She fooled me for years... 

However, other women at her school saw what was going on. Some had had prior affairs with the same principal. I knew and talked with these other teachers when they taught my kids in Elem School. 

Not a single word. Not a single note. Just smile at me and say hello.


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## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

MyRevelation said:


> Yanno, I'm just not that good of a human being to raise someone else's child as my own.
> 
> It would be different if I had agreed to adopt on the front end, but to have this kind of Hell trust on you without your knowledge through a double betrayal ... I just couldn't/wouldn't. At the very least, I think he should use this new information to challenge being ordered to pay child support. He can voluntarily choose to support the kids on his own, but for a woman to betray and deceive him into being forced to support other men's children is particularly evil.


Those kids don't know anything other than he is their father, and they shouldn't have to suffer because their mother is a hoe bag. Good for this dude on being a great dad to them, because that is what they need. Just because they aren't his blood doesn't mean he isn't their dad.


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## higgsb (Apr 4, 2016)

> Just because they aren't his blood doesn't mean he isn't their dad.


That's a matter of opinion.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

ihatethis said:


> Those kids don't know anything other than he is their father, and they shouldn't have to suffer because their mother is a hoe bag. Good for this dude on being a great dad to them, because that is what they need. Just because they aren't his blood doesn't mean he isn't their dad.


I really dislike posts like this. It's probably one of my top ten forum peeves. 

To clarify, it's about when people post about what other people should and shouldn't do as if there's some sort of moral compass we all must follow.

The kids "shouldn't" suffer. In other words the non biological father who has been deceived "shouldn't" walk out on the other man's children because it's not fair to them.

The world aint fair. Some of us are born in 3rd world countries filled with poverty, disease, pollution, and suffering. Others are are born to parents who are hedge fund billionaires, who live a life many of us can only dream about, without ever having to work a day in their lives.

To each his own, if a guy has been deceived about "his" children, and decides to walk out, well they're going to suffer and its not the poor guys problem, just like it's not his fault that there are emaciated children in Ethiopia.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Mclane said:


> I really dislike posts like this. It's probably one of my top ten forum peeves.
> 
> To clarify, it's about when people post about what other people should and shouldn't do as if there's some sort of moral compass we all must follow.
> 
> ...


I agree. All this altruism sounds nice but it comes at the expense of the betrayed. 

Whenever a BH stays with a wife who ended up pregnant from a POS or decides to continue to be the "father" after it comes out that he was cucked, All these people, mostly women, come out talking about how great the guy is but I'm not buying it.

Everyone talks about the kid being innocent. Fine, but what about the betrayed husband? Let's compound the betrayal by laying 18 years of child support on the innocent guy. 

Society as well as the government wants to stick someone with the bill. The WW will protect her bad boy so her innocent BH can take the fall. Paternity fraud should land a woman in jail for several years.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Of all the things about cheating I don't get, this is the one part I do understand. 

Woman cheats, gets pregnant, and decides who is the most stable to be the father. 

This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective and from a personal one. Diverse offspring being raised by a stable parent who's none the wiser, plus it just seems like a mother thing to do to protect the wellbeing of her kids first. 

Distasteful as it is, I get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> honestly Maxo, the laws differ from state to state although they have come around some to address the issue.
> 
> I get where you and Drifting On are coming from.
> 
> ...




wmn1

You have given me so much to think about with your question. I have taken several days to digest your question and hope to give an intelligent answer. While I can't possibly list all that my wife has gone through, I will touch on some of what she has felt. Some of her actions she has displayed, towards both me and the boys. 

My wife became pregnant as a result of her affair. She has been remorseful to the extent of severe depression, I started a thread on this. She has regretted her choices, her actions, her behavior, and who she is as a person. She is also remorseful for these same reasons. She had not forgiven herself, and I doubt that she ever will. Some may say this is her punishment, but her true punishment will come from God. She fears the time she will sit in the chair of atonement with God. She also fears that I will leave her, have an affair myself, or that she would find me dead from suicide. 

In no way has she gotten off light from her choices. In fact she punishes herself far more then I ever could. She has done the heavy lifting, she has done everything right, but to her it's not enough. She has said to me that she is not human, she is not worthy of a relationship, that she should be exiled to a lifetime of torture. Wmn1, she hurts every day she lives, and some may say she should, but I feel differently. 

I watch my wife carefully, to ensure she lives each day, so is that a punishment by me? The boys will need her in their lives, I ensure that she is. I need her in my life, I know the true her, and she made a terrible series of choices that we are trying to work through. She does not expect me to stay, wouldn't blame me if I did, she would understand my decision. So she understands the full realm of the destruction her choices caused. 

The deception is terrible, but she is not evil, she is human and fallible. I know from her talking, that she honestly did not know if me or OM were the father. Evil would be not telling me, not confessing, not owning what she has done to me. She owns her crap, she doesn't blame anyone but herself, she won't even blame OM anymore. She is healing, she is being a mom as she was meant to be, she is so good with the boys. 

People can tear this post apart with their opinions, but this is a very condensed version of how my wife feels. I have not protected her here on TAM, this is probably the closest I've come to protecting her. Take away the infidelity and she is perfect for me, we may be perfect for each other when we heal. But we are both different now, we are trying to find ourselves amongst the ruins and debris. We are finding our way forward, healing slowly, and working on every aspect of our marriage. 

Was this difficult for me to accept? Yes, I have struggled greatly. My wife has had her share of struggles also. Together we make it through, then again we may not, but we are both fighting for what we have decided we want. We want our marriage, we want our family, we want peace and happiness. 

Also, it takes a he11 of a man to walk away. I thought of that for a good long time, and that would have been very difficult to do. Today you have a family, tomorrow it's only you, everything would be gone. So in my opinion to stay or walk is an excruciatingly difficult decision to make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

drifting on said:


> wmn1
> 
> You have given me so much to think about with your question. I have taken several days to digest your question and hope to give an intelligent answer. While I can't possibly list all that my wife has gone through, I will touch on some of what she has felt. Some of her actions she has displayed, towards both me and the boys.
> 
> ...


D.O., you have tremendous strength. I couldn't do it, probably wouldn't want to. However, it sounds as though you have not only thought about this completely but also are holding up well.

I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and the time to write out that story because I know it's not easy to think about or write about and I am hoping that some can benefit from hearing from the tragic events which you dealt with.

Thanks again for your thoughtful response and I wish you peace, along with your wife and kids. She is very lucky that you made the very tough decision to stay.

BTW, you are correct that, while you could exact punishment of some kind, it may be counterproductive for you and God is the ultimate say in what punishment is anyway


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

marduk said:


> Of all the things about cheating I don't get, this is the one part I do understand.
> 
> Woman cheats, gets pregnant, and decides who is the most stable to be the father.
> 
> ...


it makes sense on that level, although if we're going back to stone age time, the ostensible surrogate father would be likely to kill the offspring of the competitor if he found out they were not really his.

not saying that this would be in any way OK, but it's kind of silly to take a stone age view of the woman's behavior out of context.


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## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

Mclane said:


> I really dislike posts like this. It's probably one of my top ten forum peeves.
> 
> To clarify, it's about when people post about what other people should and shouldn't do as if there's some sort of moral compass we all must follow.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it isn't HIS choice, what I'm saying is that if it were me, I couldn't just at the flip of a switch say "Oh hey, we're not blood I guess I can just leave and forget about the years we've had together." That's the point.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> D.O., you have tremendous strength. I couldn't do it, probably wouldn't want to. However, it sounds as though you have not only thought about this completely but also are holding up well.
> 
> I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and the time to write out that story because I know it's not easy to think about or write about and I am hoping that some can benefit from hearing from the tragic events which you dealt with.
> 
> ...




wmn1

I wrote this for many reasons, first being that it is cathartic to me to write my story. I find writing to be a great coping skill, I can come back and see my growth or identify areas that I need to work harder on. It shows what I've gone through to get where I am today. You are correct that this is quite painful to write or even speak about, but this site has helped me very much. It is my hope that this may help someone else.

I also wrote this so that people can see the change my wife has done, the work she has been putting towards the marriage. My wife is human, we all are, and we can choose to let infidelity kill us or we can become strong and heal. I chose to die initially, but then began to work on myself. Nothing in life that you cherish comes easy, you must work hard for your dreams. Even harder for those dreams to come true. In order to soar you have to fly first, in order to fly you must jump. In order to jump you must have courage, in order to have courage you must have determination. To have determination you must have desire, you need to have a want to have a desire. So in order to get what you want you need to jump, the point is, it's up to you on whether or not you recover. It's up to you to have that want, it's up to you to be happy, and it's not easy. Sorry for my rambling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bankshot1993 (Feb 10, 2014)

drifting on said:


> wmn1
> 
> You have given me so much to think about with your question. I have taken several days to digest your question and hope to give an intelligent answer. While I can't possibly list all that my wife has gone through, I will touch on some of what she has felt. Some of her actions she has displayed, towards both me and the boys.
> 
> ...



D.O.
This is so insightful and valuable in its essence. If other people could understand what you are saying here and its importance there would be a lot less people carrying around unnecessary baggage.

You are so right about the fact that the WS is not evil, they are the same person you have always known and loved that has made a horrible mistake. In some cases it was intentionally malicious on their part and in other cases it was a temporary lapse in judgement.

It isn't my intention to minimize what was done but only to say that most times this isn't an attack on the BS, it was somebody being selfish and reckless. Forgiveness is possible if both parties want it but to do it you must accept first of all that it was a mistake, an egregious and terrible mistake, but a mistake none the less and sometimes us humans are fallible and we make them. 

It is foolish to let our history and our future be rewritten on the parchment of a foolish mistake.

Before everybody crucifies me, no, I'm not saying that it's ok to have an affair and if your spouse has had an affair just forgive and forget. What I'm saying is if your spouse has had an affair don't let it taint a happy life. Don't suddenly look at the last twenty years of happiness and decide they were all a lie. Don't let this one moment in time define who you are and what you become. Don't let somebody else's mistake of having an affair become your excuse to sabotage the rest of your life.

It will forever be their cross to bare, don't make it yours as well.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

If believing they are the mistakes works for you or anyone else, that's cool. Still, to imply affairs are simply foolish selfish mistakes and the betrayed should ignore history is just as bad as people who see all situations as divorce immediately. Minimizing a betrayal as "baggage" is quite strange as, it isn't like baggage they decided to pick up. Saying they didn't change when the person you married, is lying on a level you've never witnessed before is highly disingenuous.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jsmart said:


> So freaking sad. Paternity fraud is the sickest crime. Which the courts look the other way on. DNA testing should be mandatory at birth to make sure a father is informed before having his name put on birth certificate.
> 
> *Why a man would willingly continue with this outrage after learning the truth*. Now his resources will go to support another man's kid. This can limit him when looking for a future wife. She's know that any resource that she needs for their kids will be partially diverted to support the ex's kids, which are not even his.


Because he is a man. A *real* man. Not a wimp who would run away shrieking like a little girlie.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Wow, so a real man would allow himself to be victimized by a truly atrocious and disgusting act, which should be a crime. Staying or leaving doesn't make a man "real." Just because it works for Drifting doesn't mean it works for others. 

Given how you have described the way your WW has treated you and what you have allowed, though, I'm not surprised you feel this way.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You have to remember some people love the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Like we've been saying, even drifting on, a "real man" may stay or a "real man" may leave, it all depends on the situation.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Whip Morgan said:


> Wow, so a real man would allow himself to be victimized by a truly atrocious and disgusting act, which should be a crime. Staying or leaving doesn't make a man "real." Just because it works for Drifting doesn't mean it works for others.
> 
> Given how you have described the way your WW has treated you and what you have allowed, though, I'm not surprised you feel this way.


I agree Whip.

I respect DO's resilience but I could never forgive. He is a good man dealing with a horrible situation. But some of the people defending his decision projects their own insecurities upon the rest of us and the fact that we couldn't do the reconciliation in this case doesn't mean we're worse. It means that we stand up for ourselves. 

However, that is not a reflection on DO. He has his priorities. Me ? I'd be chilling in Hawaii or Wyoming and having a blast.

DO, never apologize for your rambling. You are a credit to this board and I only wish you the best


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Each one of us in the end, chooses our own journey.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> I agree Whip.
> 
> I respect DO's resilience but I could never forgive. He is a good man dealing with a horrible situation. But some of the people defending his decision projects their own insecurities upon the rest of us and the fact that we couldn't do the reconciliation in this case doesn't mean we're worse. It means that we stand up for ourselves.
> 
> ...




@wmn1

Even though I chose to stay, I had to stand up for myself, in many ways I truly believed we were headed to divorce. So much had to change and I had doubts if my wife could change. My wife made these changes which made my decision to do what was best for me a little easier. I came first, for the first time I chose to put me first, not the kids and not my wife. I had to do what was best for me so I could give my kids the best. It just so happened that my wife gets the best of me also. But with what she has done, I should and do give her my best. She worked very hard, and in more then one post I have written I never once thought she could work this hard for this long, yet she shows no sign of slowing down. My situation worked best for me, may not for someone else, but if you do what is best for you, nobody can say you are wrong. So whether you stay or go doesn't matter, what matters is being your best and doing what's best for you personally. 

Staying for the kids is wrong, you won't give them your best because you don't feel your best. If you can't be your best, then follow the path that allows you to be your path. There is no shame in leaving or staying, it's a matter of personal preference to be the best you you can be. 

@Bankshot
I have always called my wife's affair and having sex with someone is a choice. I consider a mistake as something you may do in going through your checkbook, but to have sex with someone is a choice. What if my wife has sex with a stranger, doesn't like it, and says what a mistake that was? Is that a mistake? No, it was choice to have sex not a mistake, it's not a mistake that she didn't enjoy that sex, that's regret. I appreciate your kind words. 

Wmn1, thank you for the kind words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

drifting on said:


> Even though I chose to stay, I had to stand up for myself, in many ways I truly believed we were headed to divorce. So much had to change and* I had doubts if my wife could change*. My wife made these changes which made my decision to do what was best for me a little easier.
> 
> But with what she has done, I should and do give her my best. *She worked very hard, and in more then one post I have written I never once thought she could work this hard for this long, yet she shows no sign of slowing down.
> *


DO, 

I'm close to 7 years down the road post DD in R with my fWW. At DD her short EAPA affair with old BF turned into years of serial cheating with multiple OM, all EAPA. Who was this woman?

I get your reasoning, your wife has owned her screw-up and is making the remorseful changes needed to attempt a R, your giving the 2nd chance of a lifetime in light of OM baby in tow. 

No judgement here... just one thing to remember that I have seen 7 years down the road. YOUR WIFE IS ON THE EDGE OF THE PRECIPICE! Her remorse is running at 10000% trying to save any scrap of dignity left in her marriage that she willingly destroyed. 

Your openly admit that ^this^ is why you are staying. 

Buddy, got some news for you... as the months change to years, your wife can't keep up this pace. "June Cleaver" will disappear and your wife will reclaim a portion of her "balance of power" in the marriage. Not saying she will cheat again. The affair and her choices will drift into silence. You my friend will be left with an 800lb furry monster in the corner that stares at you night and day... Are your READY?


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

drifting on said:


> wmn1
> 
> You have given me so much to think about with your question. I have taken several days to digest your question and hope to give an intelligent answer. While I can't possibly list all that my wife has gone through, I will touch on some of what she has felt. Some of her actions she has displayed, towards both me and the boys.
> 
> ...


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

bankshot1993 said:


> D.O.
> This is so insightful and valuable in its essence. If other people could understand what you are saying here and its importance there would be a lot less people carrying around unnecessary baggage.
> 
> You are so right about the fact that the WS is not evil, they are the same person you have always known and loved that has made a horrible mistake. In some cases it was intentionally malicious on their part and in other cases it was a temporary lapse in judgement.
> ...


I can only speak for myself, but, I am pretty certain that my XWs' cheating was, at least partially, done in retaliation for her dissatisfaction with me. Thus, it was an attack, a deliberate one ( if that is not redundant). There has never been an apology and post divorce, there has been cruelty and ridicule.
I have spoken to other BS where this is true, as well.
So, at least in a decent % of cases, I believe there was intention to cause harm and, actually, delight in it. Let's not forget that a fair % of these WSs are disordered and abusive in many other ways besides just being unfaithful.
I am ,normally, forgiving to a fault ( ask my Heroin addicted son, who I have stood by and supported despite multiple thefts from me and other abuses).
But, no ****ing way do I forgive a disordered abuser who has never shown a bit of remorse. Just this week, she reneged on an agreement to pay me back $1500, I had fronted for her to pay her share of the costs of a vehicle for my son to attend meeting and to get to his job.
I believed her, stupidly, that she was going to pay me back. Then she just pulled the rug out from under me again. My bad. these folks do not change.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Maxo said:


> I can only speak for myself, but, I am pretty certain that my XWs' cheating was, at least partially, done in retaliation for her dissatisfaction with me. Thus, it was an attack, a deliberate one ( if that is not redundant). There has never been an apology and post divorce, there has been cruelty and ridicule.
> I have spoken to other BS where this is true, as well.
> So, at least in a decent % of cases, I believe there was intention to cause harm and, actually, delight in it. Let's not forget that a fair % of these WSs are disordered and abusive in many other ways besides just being unfaithful.
> I am ,normally, forgiving to a fault ( ask my Heroin addicted son, who I have stood by and supported despite multiple thefts from me and other abuses).
> ...




I believe everyone is CAPABLE of change, however, not everyone will change. Take your son for instance, something deep within him will provoke him to change. To want to change isn't enough. Education or being on the doorstep to death may not be enough for him to change. Addiction is terrible, and I am so sorry you have watched your son stuggle even when you offer all you have to give. I pray that he finds his reason to provoke him to change, and that he becomes a healthy soul again. 

The same can be said for infidelity, people can change, my wife has changed twice. She changed from what she was to a person who cheats, now she is changing to be the best her she can be. We all have it in us to change, but will we is the question. From your posts your wife changed, however she has not changed into what she needs to now. That doesn't mean she is not capable of change. Just my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 1111volcano (May 25, 2016)

I would definitely let the children know. They would want to know who their real father is even tho you seem to be their only dad. And I give him lots of respect for staying in their lives after he found out. But you should not let their biological dad walk free. It takes two to tango. They brought them in this world he needs to know about them, he needs to pay up asap!! Go make a copy of those papers. One for you to hold and the other to show the mom in case she goes ripping and shredding it up. Everyone needs to know what he found out. Ask your friend, Would you want to know if this was happening to you? Good luck to the friend

damn the bad luck


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