# Marriage About To End - Please Help



## JARUJUNA (Nov 18, 2014)

Thank you for your interest.

Currently there is a issue that my brother and my sister in law are facing which is a little complex yet I need a solution.

So some background - marriage was family introduced and had meet for a max of 3 times until the marriage day. Prior to wedding he had considered many other girls before the decision is made. Brother stays alone in another city away from parents and myself.

My brothers behavior was weird prior to wedding, had shown signs of no interest in wife and her feelings. As to ask he for lunch or dinner and having the basic conversations were almost non from him.

In the first week she had seen a text that appeared in his mobile and it was from another lady - I am not aware of the text however it was sort of the "Miss you/Love you" message.

She confronted him and he argued back for having checked his mobile. It was loud and my Dad had confronted him about it to check on why were they arguing - to which he replied that "she is crazy, I don't know why she is screaming"

Now since the wedding day being Jan. They have not been sleeping in the same room, and from February he doesn't talk to her. She has apologized many times and has communicated to us the issues. Issues of her not being obedient and listen to her husband about food, cleaning, going to the office together (family business) and basic hygiene. Hence he has made her frustrated and angry too.

He works from morning 7 till 6 in the evening and returns home for a quick shower and leaves till he returns at night at 11:30.

We were not aware of his location and would always tell us that he is out for dinner and this was even common before marriage.

However it was coming to boiling point where he would show me he didn't like her and would sleep in a separate room in front of family members. My sister in law would wait and try to convince her to move in the room with her.

Had a chat with him and he told me that she 
- isn't hygienic
- had lied about being able to manage the house of cleaning and wasn't even able to hold the broom and not even cook which she claimed she was able to.

Told him to keep expectations real and that she is only 24 this year with which there is a lack of maturity and being from a small hometown she will not have the habits of living in the city.

Now since my brother has no social life and so doesn't she, there was almost no or small chance of her changing except from the local staff that are around her.

She is educated and smart but lack maturity in her communication and behavior. But some areas that we can tweek and change - expected in this sort of marriage which my brother knows too.

However he has taken it to another level and mentioned that she i two face and that he cant take her anymore. To the point that he has told her twice that he made a mistake marrying her and that she was the biggest mistake of his life.

I felt suspicious of his behaviour and being a brother and the scooby doo side of me - I went down to spy on him for a week and hired a local to follow him as a project. (im bad, but I had no choice to save my family)

So I find out he goes to 4 massage parlors and some other smaller chains almost every day - now these are not those usual massage parlors these are with those special services and he goes these places almost every day.

To the point that he can go to two places in a day repeated twice a week. With that in mind and twice I had personally viewed his mobile in the past - it seems to be that he has reserved a lady in these spa massage places to be his only girl or so.. not sure the true issue but..I feel its time to speak to him..

So the issue is how? How do I confront someone who is likely to be living a dual life and not facing himself to change - possibly is he a sex addict where they tend to have no emotions in communicating to even family members - my brother speak very rudely and has no sense of respect to a good conversation within a family. Plus has no social life, no best friends or friends that he keeps intouch..

what should I do? any information you need please message and I will update it.

Thanks for your help!!


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

JARUJUNA said:


> Thank you for your interest.
> 
> Currently there is a issue that my brother and my sister in law are facing which is a little complex yet I need a solution.
> 
> ...


Encourage your brother to do his poor wife a favor and divorce her. I'm sure your culture may be different than mine, but a cheater is a cheater. She doesn't deserve that and this marriage is not worth saving.

If he refuses, I would tell him that either you tell her you've been cheating on her, or I will.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She needs an anulment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's so sad. Was he the oldest (i.e. spoiled) son?

I agree, I'd be helping HER get out of the marriage. He'll never change. Tell your parents.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

If you really want to help your SIL, after she finds out about his hookers; send her to this forum. We'll be glad to help her out.


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## JARUJUNA (Nov 18, 2014)

My Dad had a chat with my sis in law before and she was willing to fix the marriage rather than break it - as both our families are from cultures with no divorce..and I can see that my brother is not in the favor of of divorce too..as he still has a few conversations with his parents in law..

From my readings online - it seems that he is addicted to sex that has made him delusional of the facts and emotions around him..since his move for business was a lonely one, no friends and family around him..


If I were to confront him that I know he is cheating on her - he might cut all communications and relations with me and my parents which is why I am afraid..

The solution we have been considering is 1) closing his business and move back with my parents 
2) explain to to my sis in law that she will need take some tough chat in front of brother, for him to take her side and change for her.

no.1 seems the most likely one ...and will make us be in a difficult situation financially a step back..

And he is the oldest and I'm the youngest, just the two of us..


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JARUJUNA said:


> So I find out he goes to 4 massage parlors and some other smaller chains almost every day - now these are not those usual massage parlors these are with those special services and he goes these places almost every day.


It seems to me that you SIL's lack of house keeping skills it not the main reason why your Brother isn't happy with her.

It's her lack of "Happy Ending" skills.

Your Brother is more attracted to women that get paid for sex. He wants a wh0re more than he wants a housewife.

His problem is you can't turn a wh0re into a housewife. If he divorces her and ends up with a woman that's more like the massage girls, he'll learn this the hard way.

I see a big dose of "karma" in his future...


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

JARUJUNA said:


> My Dad had a chat with my sis in law before and she was willing to fix the marriage rather than break it - as both our families are from cultures with no divorce..and I can see that my brother is not in the favor of of divorce too..as he still has a few conversations with his parents in law..
> 
> From my readings online - it seems that he is addicted to sex that has made him delusional of the facts and emotions around him..since his move for business was a lonely one, no friends and family around him..
> 
> ...


Combating infidelity without the ammunition of divorce is pointless - assuming she can't get an annulment. Otherwise if she is taking divorce off the table, there is no chance to save this marriage and it looks like she's headed for a life of misery.

In regards to you worrying about pissing your brother off; that's a decision only you can make. Were it me, I would feel too bad for her to not take a stand.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

First, kick his a$$!

Then, kick his a$$ again, but harder this time.

You might consider neutering him so that he does not reproduce.

Finally, help your poor sister-in-law get out of this mess with her health, mind and honour in tact!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Jarujuna, 

May I confirm a few things that seem to be indicated in your post but are not stated right out loud? 

1) You are not from the USA
2) This is an arranged marriage
3) In your culture, if your SIL were to divorce, for any reason including her husband being unfaithful, it would be BAD for her and tarnish her ability to have any other life. 

If those three things are true, the first thing I'm going to ask other posters to remember is that not everyone has the legal system we do here in the USA, and that in a lot of countries, arranged marriage just is the way it's done and losing a husband for some women puts them in a position of extreme vulnerability. Thus, advice like "Just divorce him!" or "Kick his a$$" will not really apply like it would here in the USA, Canada or the UK. Think of a country such as India. If a woman is in an arranged marriage in India, and she is young and thus not a great wife yet, if her husband is a physically abusive and adulterous and he divorces her, she is in the position of having NO MONEY, no way to support herself, no longer a virgin (and thus lesser "value" in order to find a good husband) and often she's out on the street with nowhere to go! Divorce here means the wife gets half of the marital assets and alimony or child support--in other countries it means the wife has no way to support herself or her children other than sometimes selling herself or begging. Thus, husbands are very valuable and divorce is UNHEARD OF!!

Sooooo...considering all this, it sounds to me as if two things need to happen. First, the husband, your brother, has to remember that he married someone fairly young. She is not going to be as skilled at running a house and being a good wife as an older woman, because she has not had the chance to learn that skill like an older woman has. She will learn! She can learn--but his job, as her husband, is to help her learn how to do better, not to scream at her and blame her for being her own age! 

Second, she is never going to learn to be a good wife if he continues being a horrible husband. A husband should be like a gardener with his wife and plant the seeds of love, nurture the seeds by treating his wife well, and tending to the plant with both time and attention. Then the plant has a chance to blossom and grow into a BEAUTIFUL, loving wife! Right now he has planted the seed of discord, nurtured the discord by treating his wife hurtfully, and tended to the plant by heaping infidelity onto the hurtful behavior! He is teaching his wife how to be a shrew! 

So your brother needs a good "sit down" honest talking to from a man whom he respects. If your father would do the talk and explain to your brother how a young husband should treat his brand new wife, it would probably be really helpful. Further, I know it is VERY personal, but it would ideal if your father could let your brother know that his habit at the massage parlors is not a secret and that it is not acceptable for a married man to have a woman on the side. Hey, when your brother was single and a grown man, he had to deal with his sexuality somehow, but what he's forgetting is that the massage parlor girls only play a part. They are skilled at having their mouths drip with honey but none of that is true! They do it and say it for the money! If your brother and your father have a close relationship, it's my hope your father can take your brother under his wing and teach him how to be a good husband. 

If your father can not do it, or is unwilling, is there another older man whom your brother respects who could mentor him? Maybe a spiritual leader or teacher he looks up to? 

Likewise your SIL is a wise gal for not wanting to give up so easily. It has to be hurting her so bad to have a husband who thinks she's not a good wife, who yells at her, who blames her...and who is going to other women on the side! She also needs an older woman who can befriend her and teach her how to run a household and how to be a wife who is beautiful on the outside but also a treasure to her husband. Is there anyone who could help her learn how to be like that?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Please do not presume to know what my roots are and what I know and don't know about India.

There are people who dedicate their lives (in India and Pakistan) to stopping this kind of abuse of women.

Depending on her family, you will be amazed what Indian women can get by way of help.

And I hope the OP understands me when I say kick his brother's a$$!


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## JARUJUNA (Nov 18, 2014)

thanks everyone for the post and response, some really good opinion and thought into the replies.

First of all - to the "kickass" response its understandable as a first reaction but not the best.  Yes, I get what you are trying to say.

Second, Yes - divorce is not an option for reasons that are not as practically applied in the US - both parties would tarnish their reputation and have no future; the female/SIL; would be suffering the most as a used lady reputation to fight; leaving her to probably find another divorced man or a man with a child to settle with in life which I am not ready to accept. While the man would suffer in business or be gossiped as having the issue probably, again not acceptable.

Third - Yes Affaircare, you have read my mind completely, thank you so much on the detailed reply; so here is to confirm a few things..

1) You are not from the USA - yes, Im not from the USA
2) This is an arranged marriage - Yes
3) In your culture, if your SIL were to divorce, for any reason including her husband being unfaithful, it would be BAD for her and tarnish her ability to have any other life. - Yes.

In finding the mentor for my brother - despite my Dads many attempts - he lacks the respect to follow him and is disrespectful at times. When it comes to this is it fine if I were to talk to him about the massage parlors myself? Or it must be someone older? - in confronting him - there is a fear of correct communication - as he might harm himself in guilt /embarrassment/ as from my understanding he is unable to express his unhappiness/emotions in the right way..hence such a reaction in anger and has stopped speaking to my SIL...How should oe communicate to an extreme person of his nature?

** he recently bought a dog - which I did question..it only seems he bought it for my SIL as he hardly stays home, but does take it out for a routine walk in the park; twice in a day...but after a evening walk..he would go somewhere (until I found out its a massage parlor)

For my SIL- My mother has been her pillar and has been in constant communication in this tough period at times even my Dad would call and have a chat to see how is she - which allows her to develop her maturity and understanding what is marriage. Making it easy day by day in changing her maturity and be a friend in her life...


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## JARUJUNA (Nov 18, 2014)

This is a no confrontation approach -

Would it be right to match their playing field, which would allow them to feel equal again ? and start fresh?

By making SIL look bad in front of him, hence a window of opportunity for him to feel comfortable to speak to her again? (he is probably guilty of her catching his sms and trying to level the playing field by unconsciously making her look bad?)

My suggestion was to scold her unreasonably..with a explanation at a later stage or prior to being scolded.

This is probably a little immature / reverse pschy approach - till they both get along and find the right time to communicate the massage parlor topic...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Would you like to be belittled? No. Then don't do it to them. Use logic. Help them both see the outcome of their actions, so they'll have a reason to change.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

JARUJUNA said:


> This is a no confrontation approach -
> 
> Would it be right to match their playing field, which would allow them to feel equal again ? and start fresh?
> 
> ...


*What ????????????*

This brother of yours has to become a man some day. Aren't you concerned about that ? As his elder brother it is your duty to help him with this, even if it needs a good old fashioned Indian a$$ kicking.

I would publicly shame him to help her recover and hopefully he will man up.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

By the way, I hope you are not deliberately pushing buttons here by playing the "Indian Cultural Differences" card.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

manfromlamancha said:


> *What ????????????*
> 
> This brother of yours has to become a man some day. Aren't you concerned about that ? As his elder brother it is your duty to help him with this, even if it needs a good old fashioned Indian a$$ kicking.
> 
> I would publicly shame him to help her recover and hopefully he will man up.


The OP is the younger brother, which means in his culture, he has to basically do what his older brother says and has to tread carefully. The older brother gets to make decisions, etc. Am I right?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

This marriage NEEDS to end. Let it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> This marriage NEEDS to end. Let it.


I agree!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I assumed the OP was the elder brother because he was offering to "fake chastise" his young (only 24 yo) sister-in-law so that his brother could "feel good" about it and feel that they (brother and sister in law) were equally bad, and he was hoping that this would somehow make his awfully behaved brother into a good guy?!?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

And you have to ask the question: "What would Amitabh do ?"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

manfromlamancha said:


> I assumed the OP was the elder brother because he was offering to "fake chastise" his young (only 24 yo) sister-in-law so that his brother could "feel good" about it and feel that they (brother and sister in law) were equally bad, and he was hoping that this would somehow make his awfully behaved brother into a good guy?!?





> And he is the oldest and I'm the youngest, just the two of us..


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

JARUJUNA said:


> Second, Yes - divorce is not an option for reasons that are not as practically applied in the US - both parties would tarnish their reputation and have no future; the female/SIL; would be suffering the most as a used lady reputation to fight; leaving her to probably find another divorced man or a man with a child to settle with in life which I am not ready to accept. While the man would suffer in business or be gossiped as having the issue probably, again not acceptable.


I feel sorry for your sister in a law to have an arranged marriage to this adulterer, and divorce is allegedly not an option. She may eventually decide enough is enough or may retaliate by having her own lovers.

As for advice, well, he won't listen to you or your father. As long as he benefits from cheating, he's not going to listen to anyone. It's going to take a life altering event for him to change his ways, like contracting AIDS or something.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Honesty is always the best.

Tell him that you know that he has been going to massage parlors. Tell him that everyone knows that his wife isn't as bad as he makes her out to be. Tell him to grow up and be a husband. Tell him that if he doesn't, everyone will hear what he has been doing and his business will be closed.

If he is worried about divorce ruining his reputation, maybe this threat will help him to be a man.

As long as everyone is quiet about what he is doing, he will continue to do it.


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## JARUJUNA (Nov 18, 2014)

Yes you are right, I'm the youngest in the house.

And If I were to try and equal the playing field it would have been temporary up till a comfortable point where I could speak to him about the massage parlor situation...

I don't wish to play any games - rather looking at the best option in changing the situation. Possibly these are the options we could make:

1) Speaking to him and expect him to change - where he would change for good or do something stupid to himself
2) Ask him to close his business and move to my parents city which would make him shy away from visiting to those parlors as all expenses are controlled by business.
3) I move in his business and stay with him, controlling his daily routine and eventually limiting or reducing his activity.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Get the wife and brother to emigrate to a civilized part of the world (as in, can have a life after a divorce), then part ways.

Otherwise?

A lifetime of pain


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

manfromlamancha said:


> Please do not presume to know what my roots are and what I know and don't know about India.
> 
> There are people who dedicate their lives (in India and Pakistan) to stopping this kind of abuse of women.
> 
> ...


{threadjack}
Manfromlamancha, I hope you will accept my apology as it would seem that you took my statement and assumed I was talking about you specifically or responding to your "kiss his a$$" statement. I do sincerely apologize. I did not mean to upset you nor did I mean to refer to you specifically as I was trying to generally think of phrases that people here in the US might say (due to the way our legal system is set up). I have NO knowledge of you, your roots, or what you do or do not know about India. 

To be honest, I have no idea if this whole thread is even taking place IN India. I only mentioned it as the kind of place in the world where divorce would actually be bad for the young lady. There are other places in the world too such as most of the Middle East and most of Africa and lots of the Asian countries where marriages are arranged, that is just the way it's done, and if a woman is divorced, FOR ANY REASON, it is a mark against her and makes her future dim. 

If I were to address your specific remarks, my response would be that I agree 100%! I think the older brother is acting like a jerk and frankly he is the one who deserves public humiliation and shaming, not the young wife. It would be nice if it were possible for her to get an annulment and have her honor in tact, but in real life I don't think that's how it would go. And if the brother is out of line, here in the USA a good 2x4 to the head is often what will break through the bad thinking and snap them out of it. If this were happening here in the USA, I'd say she should get a divorce IMMEDIATELY, expose to everyone what he's been doing, take him to the cleaners financially, and get an absolute annulment to the marriage because there never was one! But this isn't happening in the USA. 

So again, Manfromlamancha, I apologize for upsetting you. That truly was not my intent. I can completely understand why it seemed that I was specifically speaking to your post, though, and I bet that felt like I was speaking poorly of what you wrote, and for that I am deeply sorry. Will you consider forgiving me?
{/threadjack}

Jarujuna, 

I will get straight to the point. I don't see how it will "level the playing field" to correct your sister-in-law in front of your older brother. In real life she may not have been the best wife, but she was young, she is learning, and she was faithful. He was mean-spirited to her and unfaithful, so in real life the playing field is not level. In real life he has some major issues to address. 

Furthermore, I'm discouraged to hear that not only does he treat his wife like this, but he's also disrespectful to his own father. Now, don't get me wrong--I know that fathers are not always perfect either, and that sometimes the relationship between a father and son can be strained when one does not approve of what the other is doing. Still, it does seem to indicate a pattern of disrespectful behavior in your older brother. 

You asked: 


> When it comes to this is it fine if I were to talk to him about the massage parlors myself? Or it must be someone older?


 I think it seems most reasonable that you be the one to talk to him, as it doesn't sound like there are other men in his life to whom he'd possibly listen. Also, being his brother, you would keep it discreet and if you knew about some of his "private life" it's a little bit acceptable because you are his close family. 



> - in confronting him - there is a fear of correct communication - as he might harm himself in guilt /embarrassment/ as from my understanding he is unable to express his unhappiness/emotions in the right way..hence such a reaction in anger and has stopped speaking to my SIL...How should oe communicate to an extreme person of his nature?


Jarujuna, in real life your older brother has actually behaved in a way that is guilty and embarrassing, so the consequence of BEHAVING in a guilty, embarrassing way is to FEEL guilty and embarrassed. What I'm saying is that if he does not want to feel guilty or feel embarrassed, the way to accomplish that is NOT to continue behaving poorly and have others cover it up for you! The way to achieve that is to act in a way that is guiltless and beneficial. If he wants to feel good about himself, then he has to ACT like a good man and a good husband. 

I do not want your older brother to hurt himself due to losing his honor, but if he continues, chances are good that someone else will see him and will spread the rumor. Even though it will hurt him ... some ... if he hears it from a brother, a little embarrassment privately with family may be enough to encourage him to stop. I would advocate being brave and telling him the truth--that you know he has been frequenting massage parlors up to twice a day, and that going to a massage parlor is not appropriate behavior for a married man. (I assume that massage parlors are not appropriate in your country--but I don't really know that for a fact. If they are sort of "accepted" I would maybe rephrase that to say that frequenting massage parlors does not lead to a good wife and a happy marriage.) 

If he does not have the skills to express his unhappiness/emotions in the right way, I would suggest continuing to talk to him and say "I bet you feel embarrassed" or "I suspect you may feel guilty or bad" and then let him know that you still love him and want him to be happy. Let him know you are his brother and care for him and want him to have a good life, and part of having a good life is becoming a gardener growing the love in his marriage. 

Finally, you suggest three possibilities:


> 1) Speaking to him and expect him to change - where he would change for good or do something stupid to himself
> 2) Ask him to close his business and move to my parents city which would make him shy away from visiting to those parlors as all expenses are controlled by business.
> 3) I move in his business and stay with him, controlling his daily routine and eventually limiting or reducing his activity.


All three of those are definitely options, but all three sound to me like you're treating him like a child. Can you not speak to him and discuss together the pros and cons of each option, and decide together which option he would find most acceptable? I mean, it does seem silly to just talk to him and "hope he does the right thing" because obviously he likes the massage parlors or he wouldn't be going! Thus it's naive to just "hope he'll stop." But then again, he is an adult! Maybe you could have your talk with him, and then ask if he'd prefer #2 or #3 and then whatever has occurred would just stay "in the family." With #2 or #3 he would have built in accountability, and there would be nearby family to help him change his habits. 

I guess one thing I am curious about, and I completely realize that maybe I just don't understand some cultural overtone here, but why are you so afraid to be honest with your older brother?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

To Affaircare:

I don't think that you have to apologise for anything as I know that your intentions are always good. The point I was making is that I have first hand experience of this sort of thing (although I am of mixed roots, European, Mediterranean/Middle Eastern and Indian).

There are many in the subcontinent who are trying to change this way of treating women and, with three daughters myself, this is a subject that is very close to my heart.

Many men in India mistreat their women throughout their married lives and they are the ones that ensure a stigma is attached to any woman that walks away from this kind of abuse. This is changing and there is support for these women now that will help them.

With a number of them moving to the west they are realising that they are smart, educated (many of them) and beautiful and do not have to put up with substandard husbands.

Not all Indian males (and females) are badly behaved and there is much support for moving away from the negative side of Indian culture and this is why I suggested that this guy should get an a$$ kicking - believe me there are many ready to deliver this. India is a an old country with many old traditions and most (but not all) of these are based on respect for all living things. We all need to peg away at upholding the good and getting rid of the bad.

I'll get off my soapbox now and get back to the matter in hand. If he lets her go now, it will not be the end of the world for her and there is every likelihood that she will find another good man for herself. As long as the others around her don't keep telling her otherwise and putting her down. This is where her family should step in and help her. It is not all doom and gloom if she drops this a$$hole.


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