# Is there any moving past this?



## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

I have been lurking here for a while and have officially jumped into the fray. I have seen some phenomenal advice and stories of success and change on this site. I hope to become one of the positive results. A bit of background:

My wife and I have been married for just over 2 years now and after the first year of marriage I made a huge mistake in lying to her about meeting up with another woman. There was no physical affair but I have realized that I crossed into the EA line the second I tried to hide the encounter from my wife. We had a lot of fallout from it for obvious reasons and said we were going to move past it. A few months later it became clear that it was not something we were really reconciling. We were seeing a counselor at our church but it seemed that every argument we had wound up going back to that night. I had given my wife all of my passwords and unlimited access to my devices as well as completely severed all contact with the other woman. But it was still something that became a destination for any disagreement. After a few months I think I copped out and the sexless relationship started getting to me (absolutely not an excuse)….I started watching porn. My wife suspected something and one day some weeks later it was beating on my conscience too hard and I came clean about everything. She moved out and wound up coming back some weeks later and we continued going to counseling. 

When we started counseling my wife said it would take her a few months to trust me and know that I wasn't just going to start talking to another girl or have some other "relapse"…its been a year and she still doesn't know of think she will ever be able to let me in emotionally. I am still attending IC and when I ask her what I can do to help her and try to express remorse she tells me that there is nothing that I can do and I just need to be patient. She says she has forgiven me but whenever we have a disagreement and she flies off the handles and I ask her why she is snapping on me she tells me that its my fault for what I did and that I ruined who she was and she will no longer be the soft spoken and kind person she was because of the pain that I caused her. I tell her that I understand, and that I get why she feels the way that she does. Some days it is a challenge, other days I feel I have a pretty good grip on it. Lately however my wife has been getting extremely angry with me. Cursing me out and it seems that every disagreement comes back to my wrongdoings in the relationship. It has gotten to the point that she tells me there is no period of our relationship when she has felt she could trust me and that every memory she has with me has been tainted so there is nothing that she can hold on to. Her parents marriage ended because of an ongoing PA so I know that some of this goes much farther into the past. I am having a very hard time with this period of our marriage because I have found myself taking a lot of verbal abuse and it feels as though my wife has completely walled herself off from me. There was a point when I felt divorce was the only option because she was telling me she could never trust me again, but I don't know how I could ever be okay with ending things because I am still very much in love with her and want us to work. 

This evening I talked to her and she again voiced her feeling that she would never be able to trust me again. But she for the first time said that she felt it was inhumane for us to spend the next 20 years miserable with each other because of the past. She wants things to work, but she says she can't let it go. Our counselor has told me and my wife that the only way we can move forward is for her to forgive me and not make the past a device for her to hold the power, but thats exactly what it feels like she is doing. I know what I did was wrong, my wife knows that i know it was wrong. She has told me numerous times that she knows i am sorry, but she also told me that she doesn't know there isn't something better out there for her….is this "normal" for a relationship moving from infidelity? Is this just the healing process running its course?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

You have no idea!!! Get in line w the rest of us. It's can be a miserable ride for some of us for a very long time. You have no idea what you've done to your wife's psych. 

Hopefully others will jump in, as I am not the one to give any advise.

~ sammy


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

sammy3 said:


> You have no idea!!! Get in line w the rest of us. It's can be a miserable ride for some of us for a very long time. You have no idea what you've done to your wife's psych.
> 
> Hopefully others will jump in, as I am not the one to give any advise.
> 
> ~ sammy


sammy I can imagine. Like I tell her I understand in that I listen to how she describes it and attempt to make an effort to appreciate her feelings. It has definitely been a challenge lately as I feel we have been relapsing back to square one over and over. Its been nice reading some of the stories on here from both sides.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi,

It's difficult to give advice on your situation; it sounds more like a "marriage" issue than an infidelity issue.

If I read your post correctly, you had a brief EA and watched some porn.

You are early on in your marriage.

It sounds like your wife resents you; perhaps for the above, perhaps for other reasons.

It would be interesting to hear your wife's view on this.

Either way, you are married. You both took a vow. It's darn hard work and, IMO, a non physical affair coupled with remorse should not be the end of a marriage.

All you can do is carry on being remorseful. Be the good guy. Don't be drawn in arguments. 

There is a subtle difference between staying true to yourself and your marriage and just caving in, but I am guessing you are trying to walk that line. Keep walking it. Keep doing what you're doing. 

The loss of trust can take a long time to heal.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your marriage has been sexless for a year?

You were not totally into your wife a very short time into your marriage. What you say doesn't mean so much to her. It's what you did. At this point you can analyze the situtation. What effect does her parents' marriage have on yours?

Are you hugging and kissing her from time to time? Does she let you?

Does she allow you to see her naked anymore?

Have you stopped all porn?

If you masturbate and she sees the semen stain on dirty t shirts it may be a trigger for her.

Do you smoke? Are you overweight?

Hit the gym hard. Listen to your wife when she talks. If you understand what she is saying, you will not do things that create resentment. Be cheerful. Don't be needy. Gradually distance yourself from her, but without hostility or passive aggressive BS. By being strong she may realize you can move on and live without her. That may cause her to feel passion for you.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> Gradually distance yourself from her, but without hostility or passive aggressive BS. By being strong she may realize you can move on and live without her. That may cause her to feel passion for you.


May also backfire if there is a lot of anger brewing underneath the surface. 

Don't be standing there with a black thrash bag in your hand, filled w excuses of why you did. Don't put yourself first.

You have to use the words that "the bs" needs to hear, what they "personally" needs to hear. Words that mean remorsefulness to her. It is a very thin line to walk, part mind reader, part knowing your spouse, part not being an a**, and a big part of not making it about you. 

You've manage to make her feel second, doesn't matter if it true or not, because there is a lot of hurt when one's spouse starts to show interest in another other than what is acceptable. 


Both people have to want to try, both willing to try, both forgiving to try, if she isn't on board yet, you can help by the behavior you show. 

~sammy

... but, what do I know?


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

For whatever reason your wife can't let go and truly forgive you. Forgiveness means not beating you up with the EA argument. 

If you are not already a pu*sy, yielding to her because of the way she uses the EA to win arguments will turn you into one. 

In any event, you will grow increasingly resentful, and be turned off in your marriage until it will not be worth being in it.

Your wife needs individual therapy. Sounds like your marital counselor is right on in his assessment.

By the way, what you did wrong was not only lying to your wife, but as importantly, getting into the EA in the first place.

Read this book:

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay:


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I don't know if this really has anything to do with what you did. Yes it was a really bad thing for you to do, but for her to not be able to let it go speaks to me of bigger problems, with her, not with you. How long has your marriage been without sex? What's her excuse for that?

I am a BS, it was almost 4 years ago that my first D day happened. After the initial rage I felt, I had to make a commitment that I would NOT keep bringing up what my husband did in an accusatory way. There is no way our marriage would survive that. When I decided to R, I had to choose to give it my all. There's really no other way it can work, if both spouses aren't committed 100000%


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

I get what you did was wrong, but to be honest, if she thinks the porn was a betrayal she can't get past, she is setting a very high bar. I don't know if she could even find a guy who has never looked at porn.

Her saying there may be something better out there also says to me she is not committed to the marriage. I would see that as a worse infidelity than porn if it were in my relationship.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

I agree with the above poster. This seems much more like a marriage issue than a infidelity issue. I don't think this was a very good marriage from the start. I hate to say it but this seems the two of you need to go your separate ways. Chalk it up to it just not working out and learn from it.


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Your marriage has been sexless for a year?
> 
> No my marriage has been a sex once a month environment for about 6 months now.
> 
> ...


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

"Our counselor has told me and my wife that the only way we can move forward is for her to forgive me and not make the past a device for her to hold the power"

What did your wife say to this?

Ultimately, she HAS to forgive you and choose to let it go, meaning not ever bring it up again as a weapon to use against you. She can't hold you responsible for that forever. It's a debt that she holds of yours, it's your fault, she has a "right" to hold that debt because of what was taken from her, but she has to freely forgive the debt if you'll both be able to move on together.

It's ok for the answer to be, "Yes I believe I will be able to forgive him and move on, but I'm just not ready yet" which should be followed by a discussion regarding what it will take to reach that point. Because it can't be hanging out there forever. 

If her answer is, "No, I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive him or trust him ever again" then there just isn't much you can do about it. She's entitled to feel that way, that is the consequence of your actions, but at a certain point she just needs to be very frank about it and give both of you the option to find happiness and trust elsewhere. Perhaps at that point, going with the 180 and initiating steps to a divorce might make her reconsider?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Maybe I'm wrong and please call me out if you think so, but you messed up, you owned it, and tried to do the heavy lifting.

So next time she flys off the handle and throws it in your face, ask her how many times do you have to apologize. Maybe tell her if she can't trust you and forgive you, then maybe it's time she moves on, but be ready, because she just might.
I think either way you would be better off. Like my daddy always said SH!t or get off the pot.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> I don't know if this really has anything to do with what you did. Yes it was a really bad thing for you to do, but for her to not be able to let it go speaks to me of bigger problems, with her, not with you. How long has your marriage been without sex? What's her excuse for that?
> 
> I am a BS, it was almost 4 years ago that my first D day happened. After the initial rage I felt, I had to make a commitment that I would NOT keep bringing up what my husband did in an accusatory way. There is no way our marriage would survive that. When I decided to R, I had to choose to give it my all. There's really no other way it can work, if both spouses aren't committed 100000%


You write, "your 'first' D day happened," did you have more than one?

I read, as bs, we will never trust again, but yet, each poster here is writing they do? So, to forgive means to trust again? If so, lordly, how am I gonna make it through this? 

~ sammy


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Is it possible that your wife does not believe that your EA was never a physical affair? I'm sure you told her it wasn't, but since she knows you will happily lie to her about it, unless there was some means of proof she may still think you're lying. You did meet up with the OW, after all. 

Yes, she will need to stop bringing up your affair if the marriage is to survive. However, if there are still lingering doubts, if she's still being triggered by your behaviors or lifestyle, and if your marriage isn't a warm, safe, happy, loving place, it will be much harder for her to stop.


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

my wife told me that what I call bringing it up when we are arguing is actually just the presence of triggers that she sees in the conversations that we have (arguments in particular). Since she feels that I the EA and porn had everything to do with the arguments we had during those periods, when we argue about anything now it reminds her of the past, therefore she brings it up. She said it isn't a weapon she uses in arguments but rather something that she thinks about when we argue so it comes out. I asked her if she was committed to fixing it and not bringing it up…she said she deosnt know. She said she hasn't known and when I thought she made a decision to stay a couple of months ago when we were both having doubts she apparently was "just doing what she was told". My wife has informed me that she is now in a place when she wants to just be still and wait on a sign from God to tell her what to do. She feels that she has biblical grounds for divorce and therefore will not be judged. I told her I will respect whatever decision she makes. But that her spending months at a time "deciding what to do" is not acceptable to me. If she isn't committed and truly feels that there will be no resolution and she truly feels (as she explained to me yesterday) that some period down the road I will get back to the porn of have some other girl on the side then there is no reason for her to stay. I told her that I understand how she could feel that way because she obviously doesn't trust me or have faith in the relationship because of the pain she has been through, but with the "you will do it again eventually because you always have" attitude is not going to get us anywhere good. Its as if she is saying all the things that would lead her to leave but she jus wont do it. (my wife is a very indecisive person by nature)

side note: Rowan asked if she thought it was a PA and not an EA. I have asked this myself and she says no.

I read on this site at some point that lobo can often be more painful than D or R. Thats exactly how I feel at the moment. I told my wife I don't think she has the stomach for R because it is too much for her to not bring the past into every argument we have. She said she agrees. I asked her why she was still in the marriage then. She said " I don't know I'm trying to decide what is best for me best for you and best for us and wait on a sign from God."


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

It's going to be you the one to file, she won't be the bad guy here, seems more concerned about what people will think because of the divorce than anything else.

I honestly believe you tried you best.

Shockingly It's possible that what slight chance you guys have will arise if you start apliying a mild 180 as a previous step to file. You can do it accepting the responsability and letting her go with grace and love.

Maybe she'll snap and realize what she had to lose was is worth some internal changes, she certainly has some irrealistic expectations from men around the porn, she must know it, and - in the other hand - she must accept she can't continualy throw in the face of anyone things from the past as a default reaction in unrelated contexts if she want to keep any kind of relationship with the wrongdoer.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

sammy3 said:


> You write, "your 'first' D day happened," did you have more than one?
> 
> I read, as bs, we will never trust again, but yet, each poster here is writing they do? So, to forgive means to trust again? If so, lordly, how am I gonna make it through this?
> 
> ~ sammy


There are multiple options for the betrayed spouse I think:

A. Can choose not to forgive or reconcile, divorce.
B. Can choose to forgive, but not reconcile, divorce.
C. Can choose to reconcile, but can't forgive, ultimately a failed reconciliation. (Possibly what OP might be facing here if something doesn't change)
D. Can choose to forgive and reconcile.

For option D, forgiving your spouse does not mean that you instantly can or must trust him/her again. It means that you are going to put it behind you, and you will not hold that debt over them any longer. It means you won't bring it up again when you get angry/upset, but you are still allowed to have trigger moments, ask questions, ask for verification, etc. With that option, it also means that you are going to make every effort to work on rebuilding trust with your spouse, but again it doesn't mean your trust is 100% restored yet.


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

Acabado said:


> It's going to be you the one to file, she won't be the bad guy here, seems more concerned about what people will think because of the divorce than anything else.
> 
> I honestly believe you tried you best.
> 
> ...



I asked her about this specifically. IF she was just wanting to push me to the point of filing by having me be the bad guy. she said know but later in the conversation made comments about being judged for leaving. I told her she was more than welcome to tell those that she felt would judge her that I had been disloyal and jeopardized our relationship with porn. She said she was not that cruel and would not.

Its strange to me that I should or would have to apply a 180 when I am the one that did the cheating and lying, but that is the same conclusion that I arrived at. I actually tried this a while ago and we got the the point of dividing our things but when I shared with her that the divorce was not something I wanted to do but rather what i felt was necessary based on how she was handling our would deb reconciliation she back pedaled. So I came to to terms with her in sorts and we had a bump a few months later, she is now back to not knowing and the pst is back on center stage. she has gone as far to say that I have NEVER been faithful to her and she has given me dozens of chances to be loyal. She says that she ignored the red flags and now regrets the decision to give her life to me. So i ask her what she is still doing in the marriage and she says she doesn't know…..and she is waiting for the sign.

I find myself without the resolve to file one because I don't feel I have the right to because it is me who has been at fault in the EA and porn and because I am still very much in love with my wife. I am told that divorce is something you have to be confident in since it is a permanent decision that you can't go back on. Im not there because of my feelings for her and the fact that I still want to make a life with her. I read the stories of R on here and the spouses that have been through SO much more than what has happened between us and they may not have the trust or the answers but they are committed. I feel that is what is missing here.


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

cdbaker said:


> There are multiple options for the betrayed spouse I think:
> 
> A. Can choose not to forgive or reconcile, divorce.
> B. Can choose to forgive, but not reconcile, divorce.
> ...


It is clear that my wife have triggers. It is clear that she does not trust me. She has not gotten to the point of being able to not bring it up as she feels that it is relevant when she feels the pain from it and we are arguing. Is this normal?? do you guys have an suggestions as to how we could move to this crucial step? My wife says her trust in me is at zero and because of that she has emotionally walled herself off and is taking care of herself rather than relying on me in response to the pain I have caused her.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

sammy3 said:


> You write, "your 'first' D day happened," did you have more than one?
> 
> I read, as bs, we will never trust again, but yet, each poster here is writing they do? So, to forgive means to trust again? If so, lordly, how am I gonna make it through this?
> 
> ~ sammy


Yes we had another 8 months after the first one.

I will never trust my husband 100%. I didn't before he cheated. I didn't before we were married. I don't think I am capable of trusting ANYone 100% in all things.

Forgiveness for me is not an end point, and it isn't something I bestow on another. It is a process that *I* go through, for *ME*. And it really has very little to do with trust, either. I chose to let go of the hurt and anguish, for myself, and am still going through the process of doing so. Some days I feel closer to succeeding than others. Every day I choose to forgive others for big things and little things. I try not to be the person that holds onto things.


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

Unfortunately/ fortunately (only time will tell I guess) my wife and I have started moving for divorce. Sprinting is probably more like it. I approached her on the possibility of separation while she decides what to do since our small apartment really doesn't accommodate our new relationship dynamic. She said divorce and separation are the same to her. I told her i had read some success stories on here and that even though the situation as it was may be working for her it wasn't working for me. I got a curt "F&*@ you" in response. To which I said "yeah you need to leave". so after a conversation with her mother which included more than a fair share of laughter:scratchhead: she informed me she was moving for divorce. So today….Jan 9…I start my journey


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm sorry to say that, if your wife had posted first she might well have received the support of many on here for doing what she is doing.

I hope you can rescue your marriage. It really is a precious thing.


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

I thought that this would be a place she would receive the exact opposite. With the extreme betrayals here and the multitude of success stories I certainly saw a lot of hope. Maybe it was a lost cause then.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

chouse2312 said:


> I thought that this would be a place she would receive the exact opposite. With the extreme betrayals here and the multitude of success stories I certainly saw a lot of hope. Maybe it was a lost cause then.


You'd be surprised. There is often a reaction to stories of "DUMP HIM/HER" - not matter what. Equally, there are many whom support marriage.

My point was more about the story your wife might tell - in terms of her perception of the events which you described to us.

I am not, for a second, suggesting that you aren't being 100% open - it's just a fact of life that 2 people can view the same situation very differently and not be aware of it; hence the need for a good MC.

I hope you work things out with your wife. I really believe if your marriage finishes over this issue then it wouldn't ever have lasted anyway and perhaps this could have saved you some heartache.

There is also the possibility (one story whose name I forget was a great example but involved a red ribbon tied on the wife's stuff) that your wife is cheating and using this as an excuse to get out.


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

Update: I left the house to go stay with my parents while my wife sorts her departure arrangements out and after a couple of days she said she had exhausted all of her resources for places to stay and wasn't able to find anything. She then asked how i wanted to proceed with the serration logistically. i found this strange as two days prior she had taken off her ring and said she wanted a divorce and we were in the process of splitting finances. I asked her to clarify why she it was no longer D. She again stated that the separation and D were the same to her. I told her I thought it would be a good idea for us to talk about things in the MC session we still had booked from last week. She said ok. I then picked up the phone and called my father in law. he has been the only person on my wife's side of the family that has had any degree of support for the marriage, and since he had lost a marriage due to PA i thought he would have some insight. He shared with me that he felt his daughter was hurt and that she felt unwanted. That he heard I had done some things to jeopardize her trust. I told him I had been a horrible husband to his daughter and failed her in numerous occasions but that I was growing and had truly stepped up some time ago. he said that he felt I needed to prove to her that I loved her because she didn't see what I was now describing to him. He gave me a speech about how I had not honored my promise to take care of her that I made to him, which I felt was warranted, and then described his distaste for what he called the "emotional abuse" I had inflicted on her. I did zero blame shifted and acknowledged his concerned and assured him any choices I made were my own fault and I had been trying to make amends for some time with little to no success. he said if you love my daughter and you spend every day showing her that, she will reciprocate….I don't agree.
My wife and I met at the MC office and I started the session asked her very directly if she wanted a D. She said "as of now Yes but I am not saying I might not get to the point where I don't"…the MC said he was confused and that D is not something you are cloudy on. she said she didn't see any hope for the marriage. She mentioned not wanting to go through a divorce or move back in with her mother or repeat the cycle of her parents failed marriage and i then stated that none of those things had anything to do with wanting "me or us" and that logistical complications of D was not a reason I could accept for her hanging around. At some point she stated "well of course I want to be with him I love him and I want him to be happy i just don't want things to be like they were". I told her that was exactly how I felt and that I would stand by her even though there would obviously be pain from the things I had done. She then interjected and said I don't want there to be pain. We talked a little while about how your attitude normal dictates the outcome and she agreed but said she didn't trust me or see how she could. She said she feels that it would just wind up being how it was and that we have said before that we would stay in IC and MC and then stopped when things got better only for things to get bad again. The MC then asked my wife about the promise she made after I told her about the porn and cyber sex that she would leave if it ever happened again. he asked if it had. she said I don't know because I have not been checking for fear of finding a reason to leave. MC then said "so if he had turned into a perfect man, you wouldn't know because you have been looking the other way". my wife then said that i would go back to how I was. that at some point it would happen. MC then said but what if you are wrong? is it worth the risk. MC told her that she couldn't sweep it under the rug anymore and that because we had it was like it all happened yesterday. MC said it was like a festering wound that needed to open to be cleaned and that after it would feel much better. She then broke down sobbing. Something I have not seen from my wife in quite some time. She cried and cried and cried. I wanted to go try to console her but i didn't…..I felt I would have been smothering her. MC told her that he didn't think she was at the point of D and that she needed to decide if the possibility of the aspirations for our marriage that I had shared with her in the room was worth the risk.


I have this false sense of hope that I know is dangerous…But i love my wife and I would be lying if i said I didn't want to R.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

I dont know your backstory very well, but it sounds like you broke her heart and she is now lost. 

You opened this thread saying that you can't argue with her anymore because this triggers the arguments that you had after dday.....did I read that right?

How long have you been in R?

Why are you arguing with her to begin with? To ask her to never bring up your betrayal is not right. You want her to "get past it" but who knows if she can till you stop putting this demand on her.

Stop arguing. Just listen to her. Why were you arguing about your betrayal anyway. My H did this. It makes the wife feel that you are justifying what you did.

Also bringing up how you've read stories on here about others who have gotten over "even worse" betrayals WILL NOT HELP YOUR CASE. It sounds like you are minimizing what has happened to her.....

That being said, if you love her, you'll realize that cybersex while married is one of the worst things a wife can go through. She is looking at facing divorce now because the trust is destroyed. She is feeling that she is just repeating her parents life. She's sad. 

I don't know why you are in MC with a therapist telling her to move on. Again, I don't know your story, but it just reads all wrong. She is "using" the past as a weapon against you? How is this even possible?

She doesn't trust you because you broke her trust. You have to do trustworthy things to earn it back. She may or may not be able to get past it. But right now it just sounds like you may be blaming her because she has been destroyed by this.....

You both sound very sad. Sorry this is happening.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I dont know your backstory very well, but it sounds like you broke her heart and she is now lost.
> 
> You opened this thread saying that you can't argue with her anymore because this triggers the arguments that you had after dday.....did I read that right?
> 
> ...


I agree with this. It sounds like you expect her to move on your timetable, and in your posts I detect a bit of "ok I'm sorry but I need mine so suck it up or I'll find me another woman". There's no better way to convey to your wife that she's not that important and easily replaceable. Maybe you could drop the attitude and simply listen, ask what she needs from you, and let her heal at her own pace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

that might have been a misread of a mis explanation on my part. i have not been arguing with my wife about what happened. Or telling her that I don't want to help her with the triggers or moments of doubt which would surely come. when i say "using it against me" I'm talking about how we interact about other things. if my wife and i have a disagreement about something and she starts yelling and cursing me and I ask why are you talking to me like that…it always goes back to what I did. its perfectly reasonable, but I don't know how it works into the scheme of R.she is obviously hurt. and at this point I would expect D based on her feedback and some other subtle gestures she has made at moving on.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

chouse2312 said:


> that might have been a misread of a mis explanation on my part. i have not been arguing with my wife about what happened. Or telling her that I don't want to help her with the triggers or moments of doubt which would surely come. when i say "using it against me" I'm talking about how we interact about other things. if my wife and i have a disagreement about something and she starts yelling and cursing me and I ask why are you talking to me like that…it always goes back to what I did. its perfectly reasonable, but I don't know how it works into the scheme of R.she is obviously hurt. and at this point I would expect D based on her feedback and some other subtle gestures she has made at moving on.


chouse, I really feel for you. You sound like you are at a loss as well as she. But the thing is, you sound defensive a little bit. Like you don't realize that she has little tolerance for your typical marital arguments (communication, respect, patience, listening, etc.) now and you can't understand why.....

The reason is because she is at the end of her rope and you are still expecting her to not be upset with you because now you are trying.....

There is a basic rule on TAM....Deal with the infidelity first, and THEN you can approach the marital issues. If you are in MC for marital probs (and thats ok to do, just not working right now....) without having dealt with the betrayal first? You will get nowhere.... You may think you have dealt with it, but it doesn't sound like she has made peace with it yet...untill that happens you will be spinning your wheels wondering why she has no patience with you.

I can see where you are coming from.... but your wife has really been dealt a blow if she's waiting around for GOD to decide her fate.....I'm sorry, but you need to stop asking for patience and respect and start giving it even more than you have if R can work for the 2 of you.

You never answered the question, how long have you been in R? How did she find out? Why are you expecting her to not be angry anymore? What have you done to repair the broken trust?

Again, I really feel you are trying but I am not sure if your MC is helping you both at this point. As was once told to me here on TAM, if you are not both opening up and being vulnerable, honest and willing, not much progress can be made.

I wish you both the best of luck.


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## chouse2312 (Jan 7, 2014)

Lostwife I agree. We have been in R for 9 months now and I think it was a false one. I think there may have been more rug sweeping than true R. My wife made a comment that it was like it had just happened because of the difficulty that we were having in other areas completely unrelated (communication, anger etc.) i think I was impatient and we neglected to get to the real issues and combating the hurt and betrayal of the cyber sex issue. She walked in on it a few minutes after and she said in counseling it ws something she would have forever burned in her mind. It ws the first time she really opened up about it. It was like we finally started from square one while being emotionally honest and forthcoming. But now that we have a 9 month false R in the books I think my wife is lost on how any real progress can be made this time. Its perfectly understandable…but I really wish it was different.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

chouse2312 said:


> Lostwife I agree. We have been in R for 9 months now and I think it was a false one. I think there may have been more rug sweeping than true R. My wife made a comment that it was like it had just happened because of the difficulty that we were having in other areas completely unrelated (communication, anger etc.) i think I was impatient and we neglected to get to the real issues and combating the hurt and betrayal of the cyber sex issue. She walked in on it a few minutes after and she said in counseling it ws something she would have forever burned in her mind. It ws the first time she really opened up about it. It was like we finally started from square one while being emotionally honest and forthcoming. But now that we have a 9 month false R in the books I think my wife is lost on how any real progress can be made this time. Its perfectly understandable…but I really wish it was different.


chouse it just breaks my heart because I really feel you are trying....trouble is, your wife is not out of the pain of your betrayal....I dont know, all I can say is if she is still there? you have some kind of chance......Do you really love her? Can you really take the heat? She walked in on the act? OMG I feel for your wife....And you guys are still arguing about marital stuff outside of the betrayal? This is just a mess.....

You might have to start all over and tell her you are truly sorry, tell her what led to the betrayal (yes, again, if need be) and what you have done to insure it will never happen again, tell her to take as much time as she needs, ask her what you can do to help her heal, tell her you will put the marital issues aside and deal with them after she feels safe, at least somewhat, again with the state of your marriage....

This is what you might have to do to get her to open up to you again....if your heart isn't in it, then thats ok too.....just realize if you dont want to take this step, you might have to let her go and heal on her own....its the decent thing to do.

I don't know, take my advice with a grain of salt...I am just a stranger, and you know your wife better that we do......but it just sounds odd to have a cheater (no offense) say I GUESS I AM IN FALSE R.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

You said you were lurking on this site for a while. If that's true, you've read about the POS men Well essentially you're the POS man to your wife. Not that the lying wasn't bad enough, but you cut her heart with your relationship with this other chick. And in your first post, your primary concern seemed to be, _" I am having a very hard time with this period of our marriage because I have found myself taking a lot of verbal abuse and it feels as though my wife has completely walled herself off from me." _
Give me a break Dawg. What the hell did you expect. If the gal in this picture were your little sister, what would you advise. And for her to trust you again. Maybe if you can convince her to stay with your azz, after about 15 years of you walking the line. No offense Chouse but you don't have a clue about women.


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