# He's not cheating now but I'm afraid he did over the summer



## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

In addition to the fake marine stuff I posted on another thread, here is the reason I came to TAM: 

DH moved two hours away to work over the summer. Lived with his mom and dd. Either he came here or I came there every weekend. 

Every time I was up there I was at his work. He never kept me away, didn't mind surprise visits. Kept my pics on his desk.Never gave signs of someone messing around with somebody at work. 

So there was this one woman (I'll call her Deb) whom was apparently having an A with another married guy there (I'll call him Richard). DH and this guy were a team which put DH in contact with this sleezy affair and this woman. I didn't like her. I heard one of the other women said she was sick of Deb always running out to "eff around with Richard" and not doing her work. She would make excuses to go back with the guys and often times it was only my dh and Richard. In fact, she was told by the boss not be out in the guys area unless she has a reason. 

DH was getting way too knowledgable about both of these cheaters lives, and Deb was talking to just my DH away from Richard. If I had that other wife's phone number even today I would call her. 


Also, his ex lived nearby (mother of his dd) also started having more contact with him. After DH was there a couple of months it seemed like he was making less effort to come to me and I was going to him more.One Sunday his ex came up to get his dd. Ex usually stayed in town with dd all day then went back home. When I was leaving he said he didn't want to go in and listen to his mom. I just knew he wasn't going to go home. I hated this because I knew he had no more phone time for me to get ahold of him. (tracfone). 


Later I called his moms' house like I did every night before bed and he wasn't there yet. His mom told me that he had come in, put on his work clothes and said he was meeting his ex back at his work to fix her car. I called back a couple of hours later and his mom said he still wasn't back but his ex had called and said she wasn't bringing dd back because she was gonna get a hotel in town for the night. He didn't come home all night. 

At the same time, office bimbo Deb was working that night. So if he went to work that night and then didnt' come home, these are the possibilities?

1. He worked on ex car and ex left alone. Then he might have stayed out all night with Deb. 

2. He left there with ex and they had some warm fuzzy family reunion in a hotel room where they played mommy and daddy. 

3. He left with neither and god only knows where he was. 

He slipped up that he left his car there, I think he left with somebody. He says he took the work truck and went out drinking all night. Crashed in a parking lot slept it off and came into work the next day. Drinking is a huge problem with him.

I called him asap at work the next morning. I asked where he was and said he better break up with me right now if he was with anybody last night. He almost cried and said no no I didn't go with anybody. 


a month later, he got really drunk again with one of the guys after work. He ended up being alone with a new coworker after his friend left. Night shift. Apparently DH stayed til he sobered up and left. I went absolutely nuts. I called his friend who Said DH didn't come on to her but that new chic had a bf and didn't seem interested in DH. I have to hope DH and her wouldn't be idiots enough to eff around at their work with security cameras. 

I came up there the next day. We had started making plans for me to move up there. He looked horrible. Still drunk hungover. Suddenly he said "I'm not going back to work. I need to be with you and I need to come home". I was so happy. I helped him get some things. His mom kept his daughter, that's how they wanted it anyway. That was end of summer. 

His drinking was really taking a toll, but he got another job right away. I was glad he was home. But he seemed he kept bringing up Deb. I guess maybe he was talking about other coworkers too. I went through his phone and noticed that she had sent a text from her cell for a work issue. And she said "this is Deb" in the text. So I hoped maybe that meant he didn't have her number if she had to say that. I kept quiet. 



We both went back again for him to get some of his things he left. I thought that was a good sign, he didn't try to leave me behind and make a trip up to his old work and stupid Deb. We were out talking to Richard, and Deb comes running out starts asking Dh a thousand questions: why are you leaving? You and Richard work so well together! What are you gonna do find another job? What abou t your daughter? He gave her vague answers. 

A week later I noticed on her fb that she no longer worked there. I kept quiet. I also kept checking his fone and fb. Nothing. 

Then a week later he comes in with this weird look on his face. he was like "I think they fired Deb". I HOPE it was an indication they weren't in contact, or he would have known when it happened. I said really, so? and how do you know? He said he called another woman there (I'll call Ann) for something and she told him. He also had Ann's cell number. He said Richard no longer worked there either.Then I noticed he searched Ann and Deb on fb that night. I didn't notice any messages or anything archived. 

Another week later I check his phone he and Deb had talked for 20 minutes. I was so mad I didn't notice who called who, and he was drunk. Said he had talked to her AND Richard. He grabbed the phone said we'd call her right now if I didn't believe him. She answered, I stayed completely silent. He told her I was "scary mad" and had looked thru his phone. I could hear her going "let me talk to her!" but he wouldn't give me the phone.I don't know who hung up I was so mad I probably could have picked up a Volkswagon off of a kid. 

As far as I know that was the last contact. 

We went up there again to finish up more loose ends with his work. He asked the boss why Richard was fired. Boss said he couldn't say, but then said "you probably know as much as anybody". 

He started then having these ephinanies. He said I was right about her, she was an attention wh**rre. I said yes but you were giving it, you need to look at yourself too. He told me yes she was telling him details about her affair with Richard and now he could see how inappropriate that was. He said she would do things to flatter him like tell him what an awesome dad he was and try to talk to his dd when he would bring her in. He said I was right. (I had warned him, I said that type of woman will get at you by acting like she luuuuuvvvvs your kid!)

A few days later he tells me he heard from Ann that Deb is pregnant. Oh nice. No boyfriend, no husband, now it's a game of Whos the Daddy. I bet every wife form that place was grilling their husbands. 

I asked a hundred times if he was with Deb EVER. He said no did I really think he would screw around with someone who tells her sordid affairs to everyone???? . and then he gave me the "why would I eat hamburger when I've got steak at home" speech. (our sex life IS really good) I asked if he was with his ex. Of course he said not. He said I should know he's an alcoholic and he drinks til he passes out where ever. I said I don't think you would make a big choice to screw deb. I think it would be you get wasted and didn't care, and also she is the type that would hop on a guys' junk if he was passed out.
I said calmly, did you make a mistake? Just tell me. He insists not. I said if Debs kid is yours you better allow me to walk away now. He said "dang you sure seem eager to get rid of me!!! I didnt' cheat!!" 

Then you know what he said??? "If I was gonna eff around it wouldnt' be with Deb! It would be with Ann or ____ (bosses wife)!!!" Omg, well I feel so much better now. This man just lets anything fly out of his mouth. 

Things quieted, I only occasionally checked phones and fb. Things are pretty good with us. But then next I check Deb has a rogue sonogram pic up on fb. No announcement, no indication of being in a relathionship.And usually her friends are all about liking her pics, and there was total silence on that pic. I don't know. the whole d**M thing makes me upset and nervous. 
Then the fake marine validation. Just when I'm hoping things will get better then there's a stupid sonogram and an email that my DH was not in the military.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

VAR his car.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

I edited original post cause sorry it was tooooo long!! It's still too long...

I don't feel comfortable VAR his car. He is always messing around with his car and I think it's too big a risk he might find it. 

I could VAR MY car, and try to get him to take it. Or VAR the house. Or do the pen recorder someone suggested. 

I wish I could figure out how his Tracfone was suddenly turning into an open mic like it did over the summer.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree, VAR is probably the only way you will know anything. 

Also, does he use the computer? keylogger. And spyware on his phone if that is possible.


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## Self Help (Oct 22, 2013)

Sedona, where there is smoke, there is fire. Sorry to tell you this but you need to start to prepare yourself. It sounds to me like your DH doesn't think the alcohol is a problem. He is on a down hill spiral, don't let him take you down with him. He hasn't hit rock bottom yet.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Pen VAR his car.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

As far as I recall, he's not your husband, right? So you need to get legal advice on what you can do. 

Second, your "husband" is a compulsive/pathological liar. You should know better than to trust anything he says to you. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

So I don't think I can var his car because he is always messing around with his car. Too risky unless I maybe buy the pen recorder. My plan is to var the house next time I leave for dance. It's a regularly scheduled time when he knows he has 2+ free hours, no kids either. as far as the Marine lies stuff, I'm awaiting a reply from his best friend and friends wife whom -unbeknownst to him - I discussed this with back when I first heard of it. It's important to me because last I spoke with this guy he said he had talked to dh's mom and learned a lot. I only communicate with them thru fb, so did not get details at the time. 

I have been stewing over another way that I'm 85% certain would lend me information, but I'm not sure if it's wise. If I need to be talked down from this, please talk me down. Being in investigative mode really sucks and all kinds of plans run through my mind. 

It would basically be baiting him by pretending to be an old gf. This is someone who lives now in another country, but it's someone who contacted him again right before we met (again) and he expressed that he had searched for her for years and all but begged for her to contact him directly thru his private email. I do not think the communicate got to be too much, and it appeared she was just passing thru town at the time she contacted him. When we got to gether, he unfriended all his old gf including her, in front of me, telling me he saw no reason to have these people on his fb, I thought it a sweet gesture and I had not at all asked him to do this. 

However, 5 months into our relationship we had an argument that was his fault anyway and he ran to his mom's for a few days. It didnt' take him a day to contact her thru email telling her he had found some pics of them at his mom's and "was forced to contact her", as if he had some deep feelings or something. I did not see a return email from her. When he came back, he left his email and fb up (I swear I didn't get in it, he left it all up) and being peed about him running off anyway I snooped and found all of this - the old fb communication and that email. 

I immediately went to his work to pick him up for lunch and tossed the email at him. Sorry, I know we are supposed to be cool and sleuthy but I'm often a kick-the-door-open-and-let-the-light-in kind of girl once provoked. His response was I shouldn't worry since she hadn't responded anyway. I guess it's a good thing I can trust HER, yeah right. What a stupid thing for him to say. There wasn't anything after that that I know of.

However, he gave me his new fb password not long after all this. One of the benefits of his drinking too much is he doesn't remember doing it at all. So I went in and blocked her totally, so she's not just unfriended. I've played dumb for months and now check his fb. Every so often, especially if we've had an argument but sometimes not, he will desperately search for her. He will try every spelling, every maiden/married name. Last time was maybe a month or so ago. Of course, I can check all about her from my own fb, as she has everything pretty much public. 

Sadly, I think if I sent him an email from one pretending to be her there is a 50/50 chance he would start communicating. This in itself would be good to know, but I'm also certain I could get more. I'll try to explain:
In their past communication (and past communications I saw with other women before me he tried to establish communication with) his modus operandi is to be brief, act casual, make a little joke, comment on something personal (kids, hometown, something shared, etc) and by the next comment at most he will drop a little something to make himself sound kind of pitiful (maybe he's working so hard, ex wife drama, etc). He is kind of like trying to make the woman the KISA. And at this point drop some flattery (your picture is cute, etc). It's like he wants to be the one to get attention thru sympathy and flattery and probably lead up to a PA? We usually think of females being the one to use this method. 

Anyway, if I as her establish a connection, I then think there is about another 50/50 chance he will not only communicate with her but also start spilling about other things. IE: infidelity. I feel confident I can bait him (as her) into discussing whether or not he has ever cheated on me, etc. I would also find out (as her) about any secret email accounts or burner phones. As I said, he likes to be kind of whiny and talk about his problems. If he talks to "her" he's going to be totally self centered and it's going to be all about himself getting attention. 

The big risk is that I provoke feelings toward her that he doesn't have right now, and basically cheat on myself (as her). Weird sounding!

What do you think?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What do I think? I think that if you're at the point of entrapping and impersonating someone else, your relationship is pretty much over anyway. If nothing else, how would your respond when he finds out that you've done this, especially if he hasn't been cheating on you in the past?

C


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Oh, and even if he admits anything to "her", you can't believe it anyway. Because he's a compulsive liar. 

C


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

PBear said:


> Oh, and even if he admits anything to "her", you can't believe it anyway. Because he's a compulsive liar.
> 
> C


This might be true and it's crossed my mind. 

But I have to say I bristle at your every advice to me is if I suspect and know he's a liar why even bother getting evidence, and if I do it's "entrapment". I'm not different than anyone else on here who needs to know, and every single body's WS is a liar by definition of being a cheater. I find sending out an email as an ex gf to be small beans compared to the ninja investigative stuff recommended on here every single day: VARs, gps, PIs, nanny cams, keyloggers, going through cars/pockets/computers/files...

seems like your advice is to leave it alone, or leave, or both. 

I'm sorry but I just don't get why this is your advice to ME. Maybe you are that way with everybody idk. 

Anyway, I asked for opinions and I'll consider it. You are probably right it's a bad idea. I have a sick feeling about doing it, but tbh I have a sick feeling about all of this lately. 

However, this is one of those things I can't help thinking all is fair in love and war. He has broken my trust, but as so many others on here, not yet to the point where I have anything like texts clearly indicating cheating or hotel receipts or whatever people consider to be the undeniable. They might not exist or it may be that I'm just not finding them.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

If he found out I'd done this and he hadn't been cheating how would I feel? Total embarrassment I guess. But I would expect him to get over it, admit I MIGHT JUST MIGHT have had a reason to do something like that, and with a mutual promise to knock it off and for us to get to the bottom of all the problems instigating it in the first place.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

And, if it matters, I would not plan on going all in as "her" completely doing a bait. I would be casual, if he was casual a couple of times I'd drop it and not contact again. I"d give it maybe only 2 emails. Let him say what he says, not me. 

He did contact her while in our relationship, and he is actively trying to seek her out currently, occasionally, but currently. I think he really has no business doing any of that. What does he plan on doing once he finally tracks her down??? 

To me, me sending a "hey what's up, here's my new email address" as her is no different than when people go thru their WS phone and respond to a text from the suspected OP acting like the WS.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Well, you asked for opinions, and I offered mine. In the end, you're the one that has to live with whatever you decide and the results.

And just as an FYI, I would tell anyone who is thinking about entrapping their spouse that they should stick a fork in their relationship and call it done. In your case, because of your husband's compulsive lies, it's even worse. The likelihood that "she" gets any truth from him is slim, simply because he lies just because he likes to tell stories. Maybe he'll want to look like a "playa" to her, and will brag about all his escapades that never happened. Maybe he'll want her to think he's trustworthy and a god choice in a partner, so he'll lie about NOT having escapades. Maybe he'll lie just because he can't keep the truth straight. 

Again, just my thoughts. Do as you wish. 

C


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

I still don't see it as entrapment. If he responded benignly to one or two emails then over, I feel a little bad about doing it but no harm done. If he immediately responded to contact him on his secret email and phone which I then found he was also using to have an A then that imo would make it worth it. 

The trap as a BS reeling from distrust, is that once I felt I was finding things I wouldn't stop right away and it would open a whole pandoras box.

But I really don't like the idea much anyway so I probably won't do it. In fact, I'm dragging my feet to do any investigative measures at all. I'm tired of it all. This whole topic of cheating is soul draining, nasty business.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

So I VAR the house two nights this week, for over 2 hrs each time. 
He did not leave the house, and I heard nothing. He made no phone calls or anything. I could hear him the entire time, so he did not leave the recording area. 

But I did hear something. He told my daughter that he did not believe I was at a dance meeting. In speaking to her, he sounded annoyed at me not answering the phone and said I'd probably found someone else and was out seeing another man. My dd said nothing and did not tell me later. 

I told him where I was going, and returned one of his calls at one point in the evening. This was a MEETING where we are planning an event, I had my phone turned off. Funny how he has disappeared for a whole night before, and purposely turned his phone off just to be an ass. But me being gone 2 hrs, giving him the address, returning one call, and coming home on time means I"M cheating. 

I do not even know what to say to this. I guess I won't confront, yet. He acted normal today. He probably doesn't really think I'm cheating, but was annoyed because he wasn't getting my attention.

I definitely think my next best option is to var the car. But I need money to buy a better recorder, and I have to be very careful. 

So far I've found no evidence thru checking fb, known emails, and two nights of VAR. But I still can't shake this feeling that something was up with he and pancake butt last summer. I definitely think there were boundaries crossed in talking and talking about personal stuff. And there would have been plenty of opportunities whith he being out of town. I'm still very concerned that she is knocked up by *someone* and has yet to post anything publicly about who the daddy is. There's a high chance it's the guy everyone thought she was cheating with and who disappeared from the company same time she did. But seems like it's tacky as hell to be posting all her baby news with zero mention of father and being obviously in no relationship. And it seems like with all her publicity on it, the guy's gf would have already found out and there'd be no need to hide who's kid it was anymore. 

Do you actually think it's possible his gf still does not know???? Even though she is posting herself pregnant all over the place, and both of them abruptly left the company at the same time? I had heard his gf was suspicious. I so wish I knew who she was!!!! I would call her in an instant. I want to find her. 

EA? Nah, he doesn't care about other people's emotions. PA? If it's that I'm outta here. NO R, absolutely not. 

I am sick of having to prepare for the worst for something that may not have even happened. He tells me over and over nothing happened but they all say that don't they? If it did, he sure doesn't seem to go out of his way to contact her in any way when he has hours to himself.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I can't imagine how the life you are living right now is better than the one you could have by finding a new guy that doesn't lie compulsively. Especially if you aren't even married to this man.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

How on earth do the positives of this relationship outweigh the negatives? And if they don't, why isn't the solution to this mess pretty self-evident?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

GTdad said:


> How on earth do the positives of this relationship outweigh the negatives? And if they don't, why isn't the solution to this mess pretty self-evident?



I agree, Sedona what is the tipping point going to be. What has you stuck in this rabbit hole? Just stop digging. I know when you are in the middle of it you think you are headed somewhere. You really aren't, this stuff is going to just make you nuts. You can't fix crazy.

Sorry, I really am and we are here for you I just don't think many people are going to give you encouragement to head in the wrong direction.


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