# Desperate for Immediate Help Before Its Too Late



## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Hello, this is my first post and I hoping to get some advice before either I or my W decide its too late.

Here's my story:
Married for 1 1/2yrs. My W is a passive/aggressive. She started an emotional affair for all the textbook reasons e.g. I ignored her, she was depressed, OM was her support, etc. It’s been back & forth for the last 4 months over this, each time I found out more about what she was feeling, she convinced me he was just a friend, and she would stop talking to him and start working with me to fix our marriage. The problem is each time I caught her, I reacted too fast and never got enough evidence of the content of their chats, and each time she promised to stop, she made me think she had by finding an even more elaborate way to disguise it. We have been back and forth the last two weeks sharing feelings, communicating, appearing to make progress. Little did I know, she was pretending that I understood her feelings, but then letting herself believe divorce was inevitable, and at the same time, talking to OM. I was convinced she was trying, but we were still clashing because I needed her to be transparent and she felt I was just looking for something to divorce her over. A few days after, she asked me if she could go to Vegas in October with a friend. I was just overwhelmed she would actually think that was a good idea while we were supposed to be working on our marriage and I finally decided to calmly suggest that maybe divorce was the only way for both of us to improve ourselves. She agreed, and we decided we would still live together for the time being. This was 4 days ago.

Yesterday, I couldn't resist opening up her computer after she left for a little and discovered she was still talking to OM while we were supposed to be working on the marriage and for the first time I got a glimpse of their current status. I read a chat log from 6 days ago, and found out she was actually planning to meet up with him in Vegas and there was some subtle hints at their plans but nothing too graphic. Then I read a chat log from yesterday (2 days after we decided to divorce) and I saw some more graphic stuff and I just broke down in front of her told her I couldn't take living with her. I asked her to go stay with her parents and she left, crying, appearing to be shook up realizing her lie was finally exposed, and realizing that I wasn't the person she had invented in order to justify her alternate reality. 

Last Night, she ended up asking if it was ok to come back because our dog, which she brought with her to her parents, was not getting along with the other dog. I told her, it was ok. I had forwarded the two chat logs to my phone for evidence and was rereading them in another room than she was in and once I got to the graphic talks, I just broke down. She came in the room and appeared upset over the guilt her lie was causing and admitted to me I was a good person. I recited some specific lines from the chat logs and asked her why she never believed I wanted to save the marriage and if she was really this person in the chat logs, or was it all based on her convincing herself the marriage was over. She admitted it was all based on her convincing herself the marriage was over. 

Early this Morning, after talking some more she mentioned that she didn't know how to trust that I wanted to work it out and had been reacting to her own negative feelings all along. I told her that she needed to snap out of her "fog", and tried to convince her that giving into the negative assumptions and her belief that she needs this other person for support isn’t reality. I told her that I really didn't want to divorce her, and I made the decision based on trusting that she really tried. I told her that I wouldn’t have said it or done a lot of other things if I had known she was making herself believe it was over. I asked her if everything could work out how she wanted, what would she ultimately want, and she said she would want to be married to me, but that she didn't see how that’s possible cause her EA caused her to think the things she has in common with OM are real, and that she doesn't have those things in common with me. I tried telling her she invented those things about herself in order to make it feel right. All through this she keeps telling me how horrible and guilty she feels and she would rather I just let her go cause shes a lost cause and I don't deserve to waste time trying with someone that got sucked into and EA and so easily lost control of reality. 

So that's where I'm at, I left it with telling her I wanted to try to start fresh with her and put the miss-communications, hurt feelings, feeling based reactions, and distrust behind us. I told her that I could only do so if she could cut off contact with OM for good with a NC letter, cancel the Vegas trip, and other things. Am I crazy for thinking she can do this? She said can’t stand to see me hurt now, and would rather I walk away instead of us trying to work it out and becoming hurt more. I want to believe that she cares, but part of me says she is saying that because she doesn’t want her new reality to be disrupted?


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## charlene (Jul 21, 2011)

After you've said that, there is nothing more to be said i think. It's up to your wife to decide what she wants. Meanwhile you can decide how long are you willing to wait...and tell her that.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

She has her next therapist appointment this Wednesday and asked that I wait till then to talk more. In the meantime, I feel exposed and that If I give her space till then, she'll just get depressed about the whole thing well before Wednesday and talk to the OM instead of me. The only thing holding me on now is that she finally started showing remorse over how far it had gone.

Also the last chat log I read between W and OM which contained some graphic flirting that I had never really heard her say to me is etched in my brain and I cant stop letting it get to me. We had never stopped having sex during this whole time, and she told me its a big source of her feeling love from me. I had told her when we were in communication mode that her being the aggressor and/or texting me something graphic every once in awhile is something I would like, but I never got it and just thought she was uncomfortable being that way. Is this really who she is or is this just part of the person shes pretending to be?


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

The feelings in an EA are strong and irrational. You can’t talk her out of or “nice” her out of the affair. Right now it sounds like she is staying out of guilt which is a bad thing. Once the affair gets started it takes a life of its own and nothing you can do or say will stop it until she want so end it. That’s the thing; she has to WANT to end it on her own for it to end for good, not just to pacify you.

What typically happens in your situation is that short term she will humor you but the A will still continue and in some cases, she will up and leave to pursue the A whether it makes logical sense or not. Affairs screw with your head and will make you do stupid, irrational stuff. You can’t talk someone out of an A.

You need to stop crying in from of her and start getting angry. Start focusing on yourself and make plans on how you will live your life without her. Start researching divorce laws and work on detaching emotionally from her. 

This should cause her to panic and start to deal with the reality of you leaving her for good. Nothing wakes up a WS like a petition for a divorce. The stronger you become and the more you want to get away from her, the more she will change her mind and want you back. The person that cares the least about the relationship, controls it.

I’ve played the beta/wuss/doormat role and it does NOT work. Today, if I’m in a relationship with someone and they disrespected me by having and EA/PA or simply said it’s not working and wanted out I’d say “There’s the door, good luck!”. Trying to fight for a relationship when the other person is straying or wants out always ends in frustration. If it was meant to be they will come crawling back on their own, not with you begging for them to return.


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## hardtime (Aug 29, 2011)

ArmyofJuan said:


> The feelings in an EA are strong and irrational. You can’t talk her out of or “nice” her out of the affair. Right now it sounds like she is staying out of guilt which is a bad thing. Once the affair gets started it takes a life of its own and nothing you can do or say will stop it until she want so end it. That’s the thing; she has to WANT to end it on her own for it to end for good, not just to pacify you.
> 
> What typically happens in your situation is that short term she will humor you but the A will still continue and in some cases, she will up and leave to pursue the A whether it makes logical sense or not. Affairs screw with your head and will make you do stupid, irrational stuff. You can’t talk someone out of an A.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

> I’ve played the beta/wuss/doormat role and it does NOT work


:iagree:

Yep, it won't work.

I'm trying to get my head around why you let her come home when she doesn't want to work on your marriage.

I would have said, "You can bring the dog by, and I will look after the dog, but I won't live with somebody in an open marriage".

That's me. School of hard knocks. Tuitition is steep.

Plus, I like dogs.


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## charlene (Jul 21, 2011)

You can't stop her from talking to the other guy,so better not to think about it . Just wait till the day you two can sit and talk. Meanwhile don't sit and think about the chat logs, think about what you want to say to her when you meet. Be specific and clear what you want from her. Listen what she wants from you . In this case honesty is required.


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## Caterina (Sep 26, 2011)

From one door mat to another, I have wasted the last 24 years of my life lapping at this guy's heels like a wounded pup hoping for a scrap of affection. Don't make that mistake. 

Honey, they don't deserve us. I'm sorry. I know that's cliched, but she's got a foolish mess going on in her head. She'll wake up one day down the road and realize what she's thrown away, but right now? Nope. 

Young women have a screw loose sometimes. I suffered from it myself. It's called being attracted to the dangerous man. The good ones don't interest us for whatever stupid, evil reason and we instinctively go after the bad ones. When we're about 25-30, this ridiculous affliction passes.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

TimeHeals said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Yep, it won't work.
> 
> ...


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loveiswhereiamnot (Jul 8, 2011)

She wants you to give up on her so she can be guilt-free on "trying out" her new thing.

The attention she's getting now from OM is some powerful stuff, don't underestimate how hooked she is on it.

but the truth is, you can't control what she does or the outcome. for YOUR sanity, you do need to put her to the curb as long as she wants three people in your marriage. That's all you can control - if you are going to let her torture you daily and make you crazy with worry about her interactions with OM.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

ArmyofJuan said:


> The feelings in an EA are strong and irrational. You can’t talk her out of or “nice” her out of the affair. Right now it sounds like she is staying out of guilt which is a bad thing. Once the affair gets started it takes a life of its own and nothing you can do or say will stop it until she want so end it. That’s the thing; she has to WANT to end it on her own for it to end for good, not just to pacify you.
> 
> What typically happens in your situation is that short term she will humor you but the A will still continue and in some cases, she will up and leave to pursue the A whether it makes logical sense or not. Affairs screw with your head and will make you do stupid, irrational stuff. You can’t talk someone out of an A.
> 
> ...


The day after we agreed to persuing a divorce, Friday, I went out to a bar with some friends without her, something I haven't done in awhile. On saturday I was just sitting around the house watching some games, and late in the afternoon I just had the urge to go walk around the mall. I didn't storm out or give her any rational reason to believe I was upset. After I got to the mall I got this text from her "I'm prob just over analyzing ****, but I feel the need to tell you again that if there's anything bothering you, you can tell me. That's all I'm gonna say. You don't even have to respond." I responded with "You are over analyzing. Give your mind a break. Trust me when I say nothing I've been doing the last two days is a reaction to any feelings I have/had." Then she replied "Ok. That makes me feel better. Thank-you.". She talked to OM about this incident only she told him I stormed off like a baby, and made it seem like I was taking divorce hard. I'm curious to know what she even told me for, and if she wouldn't made up in her mind that I was being a baby regardless of my response, or no response at all?
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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

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## Tap1214 (Aug 14, 2011)

I see, so she's now talking crap / making fun about you to OM? How much humiliation can you take from your W. 
Don't you see, she's still in contact with OM and she doesn't care about you or your feeling!!! Look at her ACTIONS, not her words. Wake up!! I know it hurts, but do you want to live like this for another 2, 5, 10 years??? Isn't not worth it. You deserve so much better.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Just courious, if I walked up to you on the street and just slapped you across your face what would you do? I ask this because she is time after time after time she disrespects you and you just allow it. You teach people how to treat you. Kick her ass out. If not, she will just continue to walk all over you.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Tap1214 said:


> I see, so she's now talking crap / making fun about you to OM? How much humiliation can you take from your W.
> Don't you see, she's still in contact with OM and she doesn't care about you or your feeling!!! Look at her ACTIONS, not her words. Wake up!! I know it hurts, but do you want to live like this for another 2, 5, 10 years??? Isn't not worth it. You deserve so much better.


You're right man, holy **** I've gone soft and braindead. Thanks for the pep talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

I contacted a Lawyer yesterday just to start that ball rolling. I also told her last night to forget what I said Sunday night about a fresh start and that I want a divorce. Now, in her head, she thinks we're getting a divorce because we just don't get along and are incompatible which also makes her think making the EA become a PA is justified. What I'm going to do today is tell her that "make no mistake, we are getting a divorce because you started a relationship with another man while we were still married. He's not your friend, he's not your therapist, he is 100% your replacement of me." Then I'm going to add that I want her to leave the house because I'm not going to continue to support a lie, and I'm not going to continue to be disrespected in my own house. 

I tried to pretend that I could just let her stay until the divorce is final, and then she'd be out of my life for good. With the support from this forum, I realized I can't live with myself if I don't stand up and tell her I've had enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Good for you man, time to stand up for yourself. Afew other questions. Do you know the OM? Does he have a W? If so you need to let her know, this is just as unfair to her as it is too you. Besides you probibly will get atleast a little bit of joy in blowing it up.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

uphillbattle said:


> Good for you man, time to stand up for yourself. Afew other questions. Do you know the OM? Does he have a W? If so you need to let her know, this is just as unfair to her as it is too you. Besides you probibly will get atleast a little bit of joy in blowing it up.


No the OM is not married and I do not know him, neither did my W previously. He lives on the West Coast, we are on the East Coast. That's why she's using a trip to Vegas for one of her girl friend's birthday as an excuse to meet up with him. 

I forgot to mention my W's sister sent me a text yesterday because her mom had told her about me kicking my W out Sunday. Her sister told me right off the bat that she had heard my W was planning on going to Vegas, and had a bad feeling about why she was going. I confirmed to her that her bad feeling was correct and that she did indeed intend to make the EA a PA in Vegas. Just goes to show what kind of person my W has become when her own blood sibling comes to me for the truth.
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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Have you separated your finances and started working with an attorney on a separation agreement?

I sure would hate to read about you financing trips to Vegas or being responsible for your wife's debts that she runs up on this fiasco.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

We have separate bank accounts and she doesn't have a credit card with my name on it. I'm still waiting for a call back from the attorney but the trip wasn't planned for another 3 weeks so that should be enough time for me to clear up any loose ends if there are.
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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Interesting turn of events, I'll start off with exactly what I sent her, and I'll follow up with her replies and other stuff. 1st, what I sent her:
n your head,*you think we're getting a divorce because we just don't get along and are incompatible.* That idea became your reality because, up until Sunday when I finally found the facts I have been looking for to figure out what is going on in your head, my words & actions were based on your lies and deception.* Because this*lie has become the truth*in your mind, you feel that its justified in the future to go to Las Vegas, and turn your emotional affair into a physical one.* Make no mistake, we are getting a divorce because you started a relationship with another man while we were still married.* He's not your friend, he's not your therapist, he's not your support, he is 100% your replacement of me, your husband.**You*let*this happen by*allowing yourself*to think I couldn't fulfill the duties of a husband, and instead just left me with the label of "husband"* &*all the problems that come with a marriage while allowing some stranger take over for me.* You made it seem to yourself like you needed this person because you were*getting your emotional needs fulfilled*without having to deal with the complexities of a marriage.* That*was selfish, that*was cheating.* You left me to deal with the problems of a marriage without anyone to fullfill my needs.*Think about all the exaggerations and*white lies you told him to*improve his impression of you.* You were hiding all your faults, and failed to*realize he was doing the same thing.* This is why it seemed to*you like he was so easy to get along with, because*he's hiding his faults.* You told him you don't mind fantasy football,*and all I get to hear is that its stupid.*
*
I could have*fulfilled your needs the whole time, you just chose not to let me because*in order to make what you were doing seem*harmless, you had to tell yourself I couldn't give you those things.* You have given him everything you owed to me.* You made yourself think I wasn't giving you what you need, but I was, you just weren't taking it.* Everything we tried failed because this lie inside of your head was making you do things that's sabotaged each attempt.* The more and more this lie sabotaged the attempts, the bigger it grew, and resulted in making you feel closer and closer to your replacement for me.* 
*
My actions before, and for a period of time after our marriage did in fact*introduce this lie to you, but you chose to let it*inside of your head, you chose to*believe it was the truth, and you chose to abandon me because of it.
We're not friends, we're not roommates, we're a lie.* I'm not going to continue to support the*lie that we're getting a divorce because we are incompatible.* I'm not going to continue to let this lie make you do things that disrespect me*in my own house and behind my back.* I tried to pretend that I could*live with*this lie*for the moment and that it would go away with a divorce, but I*realized that*a divorce*for "irreconcilable differences" would be a lie I would have to live with for the rest*of my life.* I want to get a divorce because you are no longer in a relationship with me, and I don't want to be in a marriage with someone who could let this lie so easily become the truth.
*
If you want to continue to replace the fact that*you could have gotten what*you needed from me instead of*someone else, with*the lie that*I wasn't giving you what you needed; If you want to continue to replace*the fact that we*were heading towards*divorce because you replaced me in our marriage with someone else with the lie that we were heading towards divorce because we don't get along; I respectfully request that you do so away from me.* 
*
If you choose not to believe that our marriage is ending because*you started a relationship with another person*and you want to*continue a relationship*with this person, then you will not be receiving support from*the*relationship that you left behind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Now her replies and some of mine:
Her - I'm a deplorable human being for what I've done. I deserve to live with every ounce of guilt and pain that is the consequence of my disgusting behavior. Suicide would be an easy way out. I don't deserve an easy way out. I deserve to live a long, miserable life alone for what I've done to you. I will never forgive myself for what I've done to you. I don't expect anyone else to forgive me for what I've done to you. All I can do is never allow myself to destroy anyone like I did you. I don't deserve happiness. I deserve the misery and loneliness my stupidity and thoughtlessness has earned me.
Me - I've heard these things before, and you still continued doing what you did after you said them. So don't waste your time telling them to me cause I don't get any satisfaction or positive reinforcement from them.
Her - I don't blame my depression for anything that I've done. My depression is the result of the horrible decisions I've made in my life. I deserve depression for being such a godawful, selfish person. Let it be a lifelong punishment for all of my sickening actions and a constant reminder of what I have done. I don't expect you to get any satisfaction out of hearing these things. All I want for you to do is realize I'm to blame 100%. You did absolutely nothing wrong. You're an amazing person inside and out who did nothing to deserve what I put you through. I can only pray to God you are able to quickly overcome the pain I have caused you, forget my worthless existence, and live a long, happy life. B/C that's what you deserve... happiness.
I don't expect you to forgive me. You've suffered unimaginable and undeserving pain. Never forget it was me who caused all of it. I will get all that I deserve, though you're too good of a person to even want that for me. If it wasn't for you, I never would've realized the kind of person that I am. Because of you, nobody else will ever have to go through what you have because of me. You've woken my brain up and words cannot describe how grateful I am for that. You're the only person who has ever been able to get through to me and show me that I am not the victim. I am, in fact, the perpetrator. You're the strongest person I've ever met. You will get through this and get over this. The least I can do is get the **** out of your life and allow you to heal. I will move out ASAP. I will do my best to stay out of sight in the meantime. With that said, I am parked down the street waiting for you to leave. Let me know when you're gone so I can come home & start moving my stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Some more of her replies and mine:
Me - I see everything you said to me as just words. You want me to give up so you can move on guilt free.
Her - I will never move on guilt free. I can assure you of that. I intend on saving your email and reading it everyday for the rest of my life to serve as a reminder to myself of why I'm unhappy.
Me - Are you still going to Vegas?
Her - Not at this point.
Me - Really?
Her - Why are you asking?
Her - I'd like to go meet some of the people from Twitter. But I'm not going b/c at some point I will run into (OM)
Me - I asked because if everything I wrote in the e-mail sunk in, I was curious to see how you still viewed your thing with him.
Her - There is no "thing" with him. I realize now it was only in my head.
Me - I seriously doubt you told your mom we're done because "he's just a friend"
Her - I never needed anybody else. I built up the illusion that what I needed wasn't standing right in front of me the whole time. Instead of being a good wife, I chose to obsess over something that bothered me in the past and consume my life.
Her - I didn't use the phrase "just a friend" when I talked to my mom. I called it exactly what it was. An emotional affair and an act of downright infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

So, she is going to move out willingly and I can either take this as she is doing so to tell me I should move on in order for her to continue with OM guilt free, or she really realized what she has done and she's willing to get out of my life cause that's why she thinks will make me happy. 

It would be easy to assume the former but, my W's sister told me she came completely clean to her via the following:
W's sister - I haven't texted her in days....
Me - Idk, text her and tell her that your mom told you about Sunday ( (when I told her to leave, and she went to her parents) . 
W's sister - She texted me back....100% came clean I'll forward u the stuff. Very interesting....
W - Yeah... I'm ok. Things have been super messy b/t me and (OneLastTry). Story short- we decided on a divorce. So I started talking to (OM) again. We exchanged a couple incriminating messages (it wasn't meant to be serious) and (OneLastTry) read them. He kicked me out. This whole thing is my fault. What I did was wrong. (OneLastTry) ignored me and instead of fixing it, I got attention elsewhere. I cheated on him. It doesn't matter. The point is, even after I got caught, I let it continue. It was downright wrong of me. And then I made it worse by planning a trip to vegas for a tweetup... And made plans to meet (OM) there. This was after we agreed on a divorce, but still... Who goes & meets a guy before it's finalized? I'm ashamed. I wasn't gonna go w JUST him.

She was really going to go with a friend and this makes me think that, not only would OM had to have met my W's expectations, W's friend would have also sais "Wtf, what about (OneLastTry)?"

W's sister - And she just said "there will never be another (OneLastTry)"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tap1214 (Aug 14, 2011)

Don't waste so much energy and time on figuring out your W. What you said, she said etc! Instead focus on what you need to do, to move on with your life. Bottom line and I know this is going to hurt ..... But she doesn't love you and doesn't care about your feelings, period!! Again, look at her actions, not what she says to you or to her sister! Bottom line, she's still going to Vegas to meet with OM ....nuff said!!


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

OneLastTry said:


> Interesting turn of events, I'll start off with exactly what I sent her, and I'll follow up with her replies and other stuff. 1st, what I sent her:
> n your head,*you think we're getting a divorce because we just don't get along and are incompatible.* That idea became your reality because


No offense, but I have yet to meet anybody who really can read minds, and these statements reek of attempted mind-reading.

Stop doing that. Stop imagining you even can know everything she is feeling, thinking, or doing. Let it go.

I really wish you had asked us what we thought of your letter before you sent it because... it's like a lot of letters a lot of people here would probably tell you that they wish they had not sent.

Communication right now needs to deal with basics instead of presumption and mind reading.

If you find yourself writing a manifesto consider that perhaps if you cannot say what you need to say in two sentences, then you aren't being concise and are letting your emotions drive your responses.

On a final note. It's OK. It's not anything most of the people here haven't done in their past as well, but... stop


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

I see what you're saying. I wish I would have got an opinion about the e-mail before hand because you're right, I wish I hadn't sent it in that exact form now cause I started to think "well she sees my point, but she's leaving willingly cause the e-mail seemed to tell her there was no chance for reconciliation at all" and I realize now I shouldn't have put anything in there that I'd let confuse me later on.

For what its worth, she told me that she isn't planning on going to Vegas anymore because the e-mail made her realize it was dumb idea. Only time will tell if she really doesn't go.

She's moving out today. What kind of rules or boundaries should I set for myself with her?

If she ended or ends the EA truly, and acted as if she wanted to reconcile instead of just walking away, I would let her back in. 
I don't know if she's even considered that an option post-email. Is it up to me to convey that option?

I told her I wanted her to move out if she was still in a EA with him, and I want to get a divorce because she was still in an EA with him. 

She clarified to me she's moving out and giving me a divorce because I want her too. And that's she's doing so willingly because she feels I've earned it after all she put me through. 

Do I need to tell reaffirm with her that I didn't want her in the house if she continued and tell her that I would pursue a divorce if she continued, and then tell her that I see her actions of leaving without a fight as she just wants me to move on so she can continue guilt free?

Any suggestions what I do now? 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Caterina said:


> From one door mat to another, I have wasted the last 24 years of my life lapping at this guy's heels like a wounded pup hoping for a scrap of affection. Don't make that mistake.
> 
> Honey, they don't deserve us. I'm sorry. I know that's cliched, but she's got a foolish mess going on in her head. She'll wake up one day down the road and realize what she's thrown away, but right now? Nope.
> 
> Young women have a screw loose sometimes. I suffered from it myself. It's called being attracted to the dangerous man. The good ones don't interest us for whatever stupid, evil reason and we instinctively go after the bad ones. When we're about 25-30, this ridiculous affliction passes.


I agreed with you all the way up to the part of 25-30 years of age. I would have to say that the age that it passes is more like 99+

LOL


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

I guess it comes down to "do you want to divorce or do you want to reconcile?"

Just because she's supposedly come clean doesn't mean much of anything, really. You need to work on you and decide what it is you want; not what she wants.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

OLT: I have this to offer you (I just caught up reading your whole thread) - She came clean alright, but I'm not sure it was for the right reason. I actually see that this is means to an end for her. 

In your email / txts, she didn't say she wouldn't go to Las Vegas now, just that she wasn't right NOW. This could easily change, but at this point, with the nuke dropped, you shouldn't care anymore. You should only use the "nuke" or Divorce option if you intend to fully follow-it thru and not for a manipulation to get her to back off.

I would suggest that you send a carefully worded clarification (along the lines of what the others suggested you do before you sent the "nuke" over, that clarifies the boundary and consequences you set.

The consequences for the boundary are clear. What you need to clarify is that you will divorce a woman who irreconcilably and irretrievably violates those boundaries, and that there is room to reconcile, provided that she becomes transparent, seeks counseling, and makes the effort to show that she wants to maintain the relationship.

I've heard the "whoa is me" response before when negative actions are confronted with the hard truth. It almost feels like an act when its performed. This is why the actions have to match with the words.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> I guess it comes down to "do you want to divorce or do you want to reconcile?"
> 
> Just because she's supposedly come clean doesn't mean much of anything, really. You need to work on you and decide what it is you want; not what she wants.


I do want to reconcile. I'm either ****ty with words or in the wrong forum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Well, if you want to get back together... you have to make sure that you're comfortable with it- and then figure out what your conditions are for reconciliation. Transparancy, etc.

But the thing is that you have to build an escape hatch into all of this and be ready to follow thru. These conditions you need met are non-negotiable... and if they aren't met, you need to be prepared to follow thru with a divorce. A real divorce- you can't use divorce as a bluff.

As Dadof3 said, her actions have to follow her words. And if they don't, get outta there.

Meanwhile, work on yourself and making yourself happy. Show her why her EA (and don't let anyone, least of all her kid you- it was going to be a PA) was a stupid, childish mistake.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Bear in mind that she never asked once for R recently and has taken her "out" and is running with it. I truly think R would need to be asked by her as it appears she wants the D and is merely saying it's because you want it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> Bear in mind that she never asked once for R recently and has taken her "out" and is running with it. I truly think R would need to be asked by her as it appears she wants the D and is merely saying it's because you want it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yeah, really listening without adding your own meaning/wants is a good skill to have.

People often tell BSes to "watch their spouses actions" because it's easier than getting somebody to "Don't just pay attention to the things you want to hear".


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Its going to take more than today for me to figure out how to apply all the advice you guys have given and start making decisions for myself. 

In the meantime, I know its best to have her follow through with leaving the home, but should I have to say anything to tell her its not completely over, or should I just let it happen and see how she acts? I'm trying not to make the mistake of assuming that I know that she'll think its over if she moves out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

I have to stop kidding myself that just because I'm open to an R, doesn't mean that I have to offer one. 

How does this sound for the time being:
I want to tell her is that I would like her to leave the house because I need time to think.

Either she agrees to go, or she doesn't. I have a basic idea of what I need to do if she does agree, I'm not quite sure what to do if she doesn't.

Also, I know my own reasons are for wanting her to leave but I don't want to tell her any of them. Is it a good idea to provide a simple reason why I'm making my request? If not what if she asks for one?

I will write down somewhere for myself a reminder of what the intentions of my request are and aren't. I feel like this will help stop me from wandering off in thought about the message my request sent and ultimately doubting it. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

OneLastTry said:


> I have to stop kidding myself that just because I'm open to an R, doesn't mean that I have to offer one.
> 
> How does this sound for the time being:
> I want to tell her is that I would like her to leave the house because I need time to think.
> ...


OLT:

A possible approach could be something like.... 

Wife - I love you and always will. I will not live in an open marriage. Unless you determine to live up to your side of our marriage vows, I cannot continue to support you in any way as a husband. 

As a result, I find it necessary to ask you to leave our home. As much as it pains me to file for divorce for my own sense of sanity and self-respect, you alone have the ability to reverse this course through your actions and deeds. Words are not enough anymore.

There are no guarantees in life. It is what you make of it. 

Hopefully OM will make you happier than I have. Good luck!


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

OneLastTry said:


> I have to stop kidding myself that just because I'm open to an R, doesn't mean that I have to offer one.
> 
> How does this sound for the time being:
> I want to tell her is that I would like her to leave the house because I need time to think.
> ...



Umm, she screwed up and has been carrying on with another man. Do you think she's stupid? 

"I need some time to think about this" is fine. If she presses, "I have decided I cannot live in an open marriage, and I need some time to think, and you need to leave because you screwed up".


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## Amess00 (Sep 29, 2011)

Please be careful letting her back into your life. Your wife sounds a lot like me. I know how hurtful I can be and how biopolar I can be at times. The way you described her sounds so much like me at times. 

With that said...people like her (and me) are forever broken. It's hard to maintain a faithful relationship. Once a cheater always a cheater is a true statement. We hurt people, and make up these elaborate lies to cover our tracks. We get caught but we still do it! It's the most ass in nine thing ever. She first reached out the OM because of a root cause. You need to find out what that is. And everyone was right...SHE has to want to end everything. Even if she does "end it". She may pick right up where she left off. She might be better or worse at her affairs meaning more or less men. It can get very messy. Just be aware of that. 

Therapy might help...but it was a waste of time for me. They like to tell you what u want to hear and the person listening just sort of goes through the motions. 

People like us are bad people. We will twist lies to make ourselves feel better. We are good at "faking" emotions and twisting words so it sounds like are putting the blame on ourselves. It's manipulative. Similar to placing thoughts in your head so you think them in a way that we want you to think. 

I know this may all sound crazy but it is. She is like that. Just keep that in mind if you do take her back. 

I hope everything works out for you.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Well, she went to her therapy appointment yesterday after work and when she came home, I was all set to ask her to leave and she hit me with a verbal 180. I let her go on for about 30mins telling me everything I needed to hear before she asked for an R. She sounded confident and understanding when accepting the blame for what she did instead of depressed and guilty. She had me convinced she got it, until we started talking about plans for the R, and her actions told me she just doesn't get it completely. I fed into it thinking "oh well, one thing at a time".

Today, I realized I'm just not getting it. I asked her to write down some thoughts about a couple issues I have before going through with the R and it hit me, they're just going to be words again that suck me back in.

I have a plan for tonight, unless somehow her actions stop me, is something like:
I'm glad you want an R, and your words tell me you'll do all the right things to mend the marriage but some of your actions right after tell me you won't. I really need some time by myself so I can figure things out because this won't work if I keep up this pattern. I'm asking you to leave our home for an as yet unknown period of time to allow me to do so. If you can't do this to save our marriage, than I respectfully request that you leave for what you did to our marriage.

I also have a problem putting thoughts into words verbally, so I'm gonna have to clean it up a little, shorten it, and practice it a few times so I sound as confident as I feel about it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Kinda lukewarm for me. Not enthused about it. Others?

With what she said, and your thoughts regarding words vs. actions - I think all you need to say is this:

Wife - I cannot not tolerate an open marriage. You wish to reconcile. It will be a long and difficult road that you must be prepared to be transparent, to do the heavy lifting to indicate your genuineness, and understand that trust will be difficult to regain. It will never again be 100%, but in time, with you doing the correct things, maybe enough.

I will ask a lot of you, I will get upset at times, things will trigger me. These are the times that will show your true character and if we have what it takes to succeed. 

I will ask you to leave the home as I cannot as a husband support any actions that do not benefit our marriage together, if there are any behaviors or actions that I find to be on the contrary to a reconciliation. There will be NC (make her write it), I have to have access to all accounts, passwords, you will make your whereabouts known to me at all times.

If she is giving a sincere request for R, not sure how much good it will do to kick her out at this point. Just set your boundaries as I point out above and let her know, that the nuclear option is on standby, provided she fails to live up to her vows.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

My apologies, I shoulda clarified better. She is aware the nuclear option is on standby. I feel like she gets what she did, and she gets that it was just a fantasy. She logged in and deleted the e-mail she was using to talk to him right in front of me, and she agreed to write a NC, let me read it, and send it through the mail. She gets that she needs to understand she's human, she made a mistake, and needs to stop self-loathing about it. I just feel she's not getting what its going to take to earn my trust again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

OneLastTry said:


> My apologies, I shoulda clarified better. She is aware the nuclear option is on standby. I feel like she gets what she did, and she gets that it was just a fantasy. She logged in and deleted the e-mail she was using to talk to him right in front of me, and she agreed to write a NC, let me read it, and send it through the mail. She gets that she needs to understand she's human, she made a mistake, and needs to stop self-loathing about it. I just feel she's not getting what its going to take to earn my trust again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I still don't think it matters to much. You can dilute the message, or you can reinforce it. Kicking her out, if she's genuine about R may not reinforce your message. She has to know that you'll be fair, but demanding, and she's going to have to work hard with you to make it work.

what is the objective criteria for her to come back into the home? How will you know she's been punished for long enough? she fessed up and asked for a genuine R. if she will be punished for asking, you are sending her to the lions den. all you need to do is to set those boundaries and watch them like a hawk - don't belittle or remind her of her guilt, but give her positive reinforcement in return. 

if you put the boundary monitors in place (VAR, keyloggers, etc) she oversteps the boundaries, you don't need to say another word, you can ACT by asking her immediately to move out. But make sure you have solid, irrefutable evidence before you do. This will help you both stay focused on the R.


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## OneLastTry (Sep 26, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Kinda lukewarm for me. Not enthused about it. Others?
> 
> With what she said, and your thoughts regarding words vs. actions - I think all you need to say is this:
> 
> ...


I like the way this sounds. Thank you very much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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