# Re: Did I Overreact?



## Fixin

*Did I Overreact?*

My wife and I have been married for 23 years this past winter, and two kids. I have been in an ongoing argument with my wife over her relationship with her boss. I began to feel that their relationship was becoming inappropriate last year (15 months ago). They take many business trips together each of the last two years. They were talking to each other constantly via work Blackberry, and work laptops, and personal laptops (e-mail). I even mentioned to her that this seemed to be a little too much. Then one day last summer after we spent a day together I felt uneasy about the way she was acting, for instance having me take a picture of her while we were visiting a winery (something she would almost never do). That night after she went to bed I did the unthinkable, I looked at her personal e-mail. I was so convinced that their might be something going on I couldn’t resist the temptation to look. Then I saw it. While we were watching a move together that night she had emailed him pictures form our winery outing that day. The subject line said “Pics – you can’t share ”. In the message she wrote about the dress she wore that day and mentioned that it made her look like she had assets that she didn’t really have. Her boss responded back by saying something like this “my goodness...the twins were acting a bit rambunctious today and showing off. You should have a talk with them about behaving responsibly. ;-) Then they went back and forth about how she was blushing then. 

I was absolutely horrified when I saw this. I went to see a counselor about it to make sure I wasn’t misreading it. The counselor advised that it might be best if I confronted my wife about this in a couple therapy sessions. I convinced my wife to go to couples therapy, and that’s when I told her about me seeing the e-mail. As you can imagine this went over like a lead balloon.

Fast forward: Now after not succeeding with two different couples therapist things are not changing. I feel like neither of us really opened up in the therapy sessions. She insists that he is just a friend, in fact her best friend. When I ask her if she loves him, she says as a friend.

Is it possible that I have been falsely accusing her of cheating? Could I have been overeating the last 15 months?

Things came to a head this past weekend after another business trip, which she failed to mention he would be on until after she got home. I told her that I thought it was time to separate our finances. To which she responded with the question of “is this a prelude to one of us moving out”. 

Did I mess up? I never had physical proof that something was going on, but I do believe that their relationship has at least been an inappropriate emotional affair of some sort...


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## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Why doesn't she consider you her best friend? IMO, if the spouses are not best friends, then the marriage cannot last long term. IMO, it's part of the total package of being married.


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

No you did not mess up; you know, and she knows, that the relationship with boss man is inappropriate. She's stonewalling you.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Interesting choice of words. The reason we stopped seeing the first couple therapist was because the therapist told my wife that she was “stonewalling”. The therapist asked my wife if she knew what that meant, and that was it she charged out in a huff and we never went back to that therapist.


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## Zatol Ugot?

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Fixin,
To answer your post, you did not overreact. It is totally inappropriate for another man, especially her boss, talking to her about "the twins" and "her assets". These are conversations where the intimacy level has crossed the line of propriety. 
Imagine if you had a female boss that you were in constant communication with and you sent her pictures of you, say, in bathing trunks and she responded back to you with comments about how your package looked like it had settled in nicely or some other awkward comment. How would your wife react to that? I'm guessing not very well. I also agree with Plan 9 that you should be her best friend. It sounds like this work place relationship has gone places that it shouldn't go and if she is not already having an affair with him, it will take nothing more than a strong breeze to push her into his arms. 
Stand up, take charge and demand that this stop! I'm sure that the company's HR department would be very interested in hearing how this boss relates to his employees.


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Interesting choice of words. The reason we stopped seeing the first couple therapist was because the therapist told my wife that she was “stonewalling”. The therapist asked my wife if she knew what that meant, and that was it she charged out in a huff and we never went back to that therapist.


JMO, but sounds like your wife has convinced herself that she isn't doing anything wrong. Lot's of people do that. They fool themselves into thinking that if there's no actual sex, then they aren't doing anything wrong.

Charging out in a huff? Well, to me, that means she knows exactly what she's doing...and that it's unacceptable.


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## bkaydezz

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

uhm no. 

i thats cheating if im sending another man pictures.

they dont need to be discussing anything but work.
EA defintely.

Shame on her.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Zatol
I have already requested that she keep her relationship with him strictly professional, but she gets very upset at this because how do break off a relationship your best friend....
I have posed the question to her how would she have felt if I had acted this way with a female employee of mine when I was supervising, and she doesn’t like it when I try to portray the conversation that way. In a recent attempt to talk about this ongoing issue she told me “if it were you, you wouldn’t really know how you would react until it happened”. She frustrates me so much some times; I just do not know how to respond to these things. 

It is difficult, we have 23 years together, and I still feel love and attraction toward her, but I believe I need to start protecting myself.

However its complicated by the fact that our youngest child is beginning their senior in high school, so I don’t want to be selfish...


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## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



> However its complicated by the fact that our youngest child is beginning their senior in high school, so I don’t want to be selfish...


This is MHO, but..


Marriage comes before children... unless it's life or death. Children leave and have their own lives at one point. Then all that's left is you and your wife and the relationship before they were there.

If she sees no wrong in what she's doing, she won't stop the behavior. She's rationalized it to herself that being emotionally attached to her boss is A-OK, when to any other rational thinking person, it isn't.


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Zatol
> *I have already requested that she keep her relationship with him strictly professional, but she gets very upset at this because how do break off a relationship your best friend....*I have posed the question to her how would she have felt if I had acted this way with a female employee of mine when I was supervising, and she doesn’t like it when I try to portray the conversation that way. In a recent attempt to talk about this ongoing issue she told me “if it were you, you wouldn’t really know how you would react until it happened”. She frustrates me so much some times; I just do not know how to respond to these things.
> 
> It is difficult, we have 23 years together, and I still feel love and attraction toward her, but I believe I need to start protecting myself.
> 
> *However its complicated by the fact that our youngest child is beginning their senior in high school, so I don’t want to be selfish...*


Are you kidding me? Number one, she should not be placing her boss/best friend ahead of her marriage to you. Number two, you really shouldn't use your children as an excuse, here. I'm not saying divorce your wife, but you really have to lose this "there's nothing I can do" attitude. Go on over to CWI, find the Turtle, and talk to him (user name Almost Recovered).

Respectfully,

CG


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

A Bit Much
This is starting to become my opinion too more and more. But scary.


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## Zatol Ugot?

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Zatol
> I have already requested that she keep her relationship with him strictly professional, but she gets very upset at this because how do break off a relationship your best friend....
> I have posed the question to her how would she have felt if I had acted this way with a female employee of mine when I was supervising, and she doesn’t like it when I try to portray the conversation that way. In a recent attempt to talk about this ongoing issue she told me “if it were you, you wouldn’t really know how you would react until it happened”. She frustrates me so much some times; I just do not know how to respond to these things.
> 
> It is difficult, we have 23 years together, and I still feel love and attraction toward her, but I believe I need to start protecting myself.
> 
> However its complicated by the fact that our youngest child is beginning their senior in high school, so I don’t want to be selfish...


Fixin,
You're not the selfish one here. I understand your desire to protect your child going into high school but this is not something that you brought upon the marriage. 



Fixin said:


> but she gets very upset at this because how do break off a relationship your best friend....


Tough cookies! Where does her priorities stand? Is it to her husband of 23+ years or to her "boss/boyfriend"? As mentioned earlier, the fact that she says that he is her best friend is disturbing, IMHO. The fact that she does not even recognize the inappropriateness of this relationship shows you where her mind is. She doesn't think that she is doing anything wrong. She has rationalized this relationship and she thinks that it is ok because "nothing has happened". YET! She may not be having a physical affair with this man but she is definitely having an emotional affair with him. She is using him as your proxy and that is bullsh!t. NOBODY should ever take the place of a spouse. The relationship that she is having with him is totally wrong and if she does not have a change in attitude soon, it may be time to start to consider divorce. I'm sure this is tough and a bad situation but it is totally unfair to you as a husband waiting around in your marriage for the sword to drop...and it will. Eventually, she WILL have a physical affair with him unless it stops now.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

CandieGirl
What is CWI?


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## Zatol Ugot?

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> CandieGirl
> What is CWI?


Coping with infidelity section of TAM.


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## seasalt

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

What if any kind of a relationship do you have with her boss?

I think you should let him know that you don't appreciate his references to "her girls".

Tell him you are remaining vigilent with respect to his interactions with your wife and would hold him responsible for anything improper that has happened or may happen between them.

Inform, don't threaten but make it clear that his position as her boss would become tenuous if their relationship was inappropriate.


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## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I was just about to suggest a conversation with her boss too. Thanks seasalt. 

At this point, screw the job. Your relationship trumps that. She can get another job.


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Yes, I agree with the above, and sometimes, people need telling. They take advantage of their so called 'position' in your spouse's life...this dirtbag is probably just pushing to see how far he can get with her.

FYI. No man wants to be 'best friends' with a woman; he's trying to screw your wife...


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## Cubby

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> My wife and I have been married for 23 years this past winter, and two kids. I have been in an ongoing argument with my wife over her relationship with her boss. I began to feel that their relationship was becoming inappropriate last year (15 months ago). They take many business trips together each of the last two years. They were talking to each other constantly via work Blackberry, and work laptops, and personal laptops (e-mail). I even mentioned to her that this seemed to be a little too much. Then one day last summer after we spent a day together I felt uneasy about the way she was acting, for instance having me take a picture of her while we were visiting a winery (something she would almost never do). That night after she went to bed *I did the unthinkable, I looked at her personal e-mail. * I was so convinced that their might be something going on I couldn’t resist the temptation to look. Then I saw it. While we were watching a move together that night she had emailed him pictures form our winery outing that day. The subject line said “Pics – you can’t share ”. In the message she wrote about the dress she wore that day and mentioned that it made her look like she had assets that she didn’t really have. Her boss responded back by saying something like this “my goodness...the twins were acting a bit rambunctious today and showing off. You should have a talk with them about behaving responsibly. ;-) Then they went back and forth about how she was blushing then.
> 
> I was absolutely horrified when I saw this. I went to see a counselor about it to make sure I wasn’t misreading it. The counselor advised that it might be best if I confronted my wife about this in a couple therapy sessions. I convinced my wife to go to couples therapy, and that’s when I told her about me seeing the e-mail. As you can imagine this went over like a lead balloon.
> 
> Fast forward: Now after not succeeding with two different couples therapist things are not changing. I feel like neither of us really opened up in the therapy sessions. She insists that he is just a friend, in fact her best friend. When I ask her if she loves him, she says as a friend.
> 
> Is it possible that I have been falsely accusing her of cheating? Could I have been overeating the last 15 months?
> 
> Things came to a head this past weekend after another business trip, which she failed to mention he would be on until after she got home. I told her that I thought it was time to separate our finances. To which she responded with the question of “is this a prelude to one of us moving out”.
> 
> Did I mess up? I never had physical proof that something was going on, but I do believe that their relationship has at least been an inappropriate emotional affair of some sort...


You consider looking at her email, "the unthinkable?" I'm really getting disgusted with all the new and naive posters on this site who think snooping and looking at their spouses emails and text messages is such a terrible thing to do. Dude...snap out it...she's YOUR WIFE!!!

I have all of my wife's passwords to emails, Facebook, cell phone, etc. She has all of mine. She's welcome to look through anything she wants. Sometimes she asks me to check her emails if she's unable to do it and is expecting a message. The only thing that's private is toilet usage.

It's a great feeling and comforting for both of us to adopt a "there are no secrets in a marriage" policy.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Zatol
I tend to agree it has been 15 months and she still insists there is nothing going with them. I do the rationalization going on. I am just afraid I will always have the nagging question did I handle this correctly? After bringing up that we need to separate our finances this weekend, I’m stuck with sleeping on the couch...


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

He's feeling that way because she's making him feel that way...

I'm sure he got the 'you don't trust me!' and 'he's just a friend!' and all the rest...


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## Almostrecovered

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

so what sort of investigation have you done, have you put a keylogger on the computer, put a VAR under her car seat yet?

don't be afraid to start prying (without telling her)


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Fixin, you need to tell your wife to examine your marriage and what it means to her. Then, go 180 degrees on her (info on this site). Do not let her control you like this. Show her that you mean business. Tell her that if she wants to continue to have this best friend of hers, that *her *ass with be on the curb, nevermind the flippin' couch!


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

You certainly didn't overreact to anything. If you think for a second that this hasn't already went physical or will then you better think again. 

Is this boss of her's married? What do you know about him?


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## Toffer

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Your youngest will be 18 soon. Thety can handle this.

Meanwhile, your wife has chosen a relationship with another man over you. As others have suggested, you need to monitor via keylogger and VAR in the car.

I would wait a bit and see if you get anything. Then demand she leave that job or the marriage. Her choice.

This is at the very least an EA


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## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Back in the day the attitude she has would prompt me to really go icy on her and give her a strong taste of her own medicine. 

Yes, it's immature. But there are some people who don't understand the gravity of what they do until it happens to them.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

seasalt
The situation with her is very complicated. They are both very high up the food chain, so to speak. She has not allowed us to come in to contact in the past year.


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Yes, and as suggested above, find out if Boss Boy is married. And if he is, find as much as you can, and go to his wife.


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## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> seasalt
> The situation with her is very complicated. They are both very high up the food chain, so to speak. *She has not allowed us to come in to contact in the past year*.


This means you have to make it your business to do JUST THAT. I'm starting to get fired up just reading this!


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## Zatol Ugot?

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Zatol
> I tend to agree it has been 15 months and she still insists there is nothing going with them. I do the rationalization going on. I am just afraid I will always have the nagging question did I handle this correctly? After bringing up that we need to separate our finances this weekend, I’m stuck with sleeping on the couch...


Sorry, Fixin...don't mean to sound harsh but it should be her azz on the couch! I also agree with Candie and Cubby. The boss is looking to get physical with your wife, even if he doesn't realize it yet. Imagine a scenario 5 or 6 years from now when your youngest has graduated from high school and is out of the house. You and your wife get into a huge argument about the burnt meatloaf. She stomps out of the house and gives her "best friend" a ring on the cell to talk about how horrible of a husband you are. He consoles her and let's her know that you don't even know how lucky you are to have her as a wife and he puts his arm around her to comfort her....Blah, Blah, Blah. It's gonna happen...sooner or later. 
Also, Cubby is right about the email thing. You have nothing to feel bad about. Privacy takes on a whole new meaning for a devoted couple and their communications should be an open book. 
Look, I realize that this is scary for you and you are concerned that you might be jumping the gun and taking things out of context and orverreacting, etc. But in these cases, your initial gut reaction is usually the right one. You know something is not right with this relationship. 
If for no other reason than to make you feel better, she should end the relationship. That's what a loving spouse should do. 
I'm not saying that your marriage is over, but it is time for you to put your foot down and have a serious conversation with your wife. I would calmly sit her down and explain how hurt and shocked you were to know the depths of intimacy that she shares with this man and that it hurts you as her husband that she is unable to consider you her best friend. Time for some firm, straight talk. 
Counseling is a good idea also.


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## t_hopper_2012

Time to go to HR as well.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I don't want to put the cart before the horse here but if this marriage is ever going to survive your wife is going to need to find a new job. She can no longer continue working under this guy. No pun intended.


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> seasalt
> The situation with her is very complicated. They are both very high up the food chain, so to speak. She has not allowed us to come in to contact in the past year.


...what do you mean by that? Higer ups? Makes it even more inappropriate. She's keeping the boss away from you? In the past, did you used to socialize?


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



t_hopper_2012 said:


> Time to go to HR as well.


Yup, I would stir things up in that office big time.


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## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



A Bit Much said:


> Back in the day the attitude she has would prompt me to really go icy on her and give her a strong taste of her own medicine.
> 
> Yes, it's immature. But there are some people who don't understand the gravity of what they do until it happens to them.


Back in "the day", people had a healthy understanding of boundaries. It is so blatantly obvious that you do not have these types of conversations with someone from the opposite sex because the repercussions are too many to account for. IDK, OP but I think you need to have the convo with the wife and tell her flat out that she has a choice: She has the relationship with you or she continues this relationship with the boss. If she wakes up and decides that you are too important for her to lose, then you insist that she either transfers or she quits. Also, she needs to break it off with him via no contact ever again. 

If she says that she will not stop the relationship with the boss, then you need to get as much supporting evidence as possible and out them to her companies HR dept. No doubt that her co-workers know that their relationship is inappropriate, and that I'm sure you can find a few that would back up your story. Then I'd divorce her because she made her choice...


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Zatol
> I tend to agree it has been 15 months and she still insists there is nothing going with them. I do the rationalization going on. I am just afraid I will always have the nagging question did I handle this correctly? After bringing up that we need to separate our finances this weekend, I’m stuck with sleeping on the couch...


Why are you sleeping on the couch? Don't you dare become one of those guys and stop that immediately. Tonight you get into your bed. If she has a problem with that you tell her the couch is all hers.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

You might want to ask the MODS to move this over to the CWI section.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Yes, he is married.


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## Zatol Ugot?

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



A Bit Much said:


> This means you have to make it your business to do JUST THAT. I'm starting to get fired up just reading this!


:iagree::iagree:


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## Zatol Ugot?

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Yes, he is married.


I'm sure his wife would be interested to know that he is interested in someone else's "twins".


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## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Fixin don't feel bad for your actions up to this point. You're doing what you should be doing. Protecting your house. Just like the underarmour brand says. 

This means you will and should use every tool at your disposal, including going to HR, his wife, and seperating bank accounts.

Go back to your bed and tell her you will not apologize for trying to protect yourself if she refuses to respect your marriage for this clown. It's you or him. Period.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Yes, he is married.


The first thing I would do then is have a conversation with his wife. This will get things stirred up on his end. Let her know what you have seen message wise and let her know the concerns you were having which lead you look at things closer in the first place.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



A Bit Much said:


> Fixin don't feel bad for your actions up to this point. You're doing what you should be doing. Protecting your house. Just like the underarmour brand says.
> 
> This means you will and should use every tool at your disposal, including going to HR, his wife, and seperating bank accounts.
> 
> Go back to your bed and tell her you will not apologize for trying to protect yourself if she refuses to respect your marriage for this clown. It's you or him. Period.


Exactly right. You're sleeping on the couch right now out of punishment for interfering with her little fantasy world. You're stupid for doing this and it needs to end tonight.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

To all

I have set her down and told her how hurtful this relationship with her boss has been for me. I have all along struggled with the fact that she hasn’t made any real changes for me, her husband. We have had counseling, and never could get to the bottom of anything. Yes, we did have some get to together socially last year. Moreover, each time I thought their behavior was very highschoolish. The second couples therapist blurted out “that’s sexual harassment” when explained what was said in the e-mail. To which my wife explained its not sexual harassment if the recipient doesn’t see it that way (Jeeze, that says it all doesn’t it).


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## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> To all
> 
> I have set her down and told her how hurtful this relationship with her boss has been for me. I have all along struggled with the fact that she hasn’t made any real changes for me, her husband. We have had counseling, and never could get to the bottom of anything. Yes, we did have some get to together socially last year. Moreover, each time I thought their behavior was very highschoolish. The second couples therapist blurted out “that’s sexual harassment” when explained what was said in the e-mail. To which my wife explained its not sexual harassment if the recipient doesn’t see it that way (Jeeze, that says it all doesn’t it).


OK well since telling her gets you nowhere, then it's actions that she will have to understand.

She has run a total game on you, and not only that, made YOU feel bad for calling her out on her BS!

Time to get your Alpha on. You're bigger than all of this... bigger than that idiot she's chatting it up and being bestie bestie with. SHOW HER you mean business and you will NOT under any circumstances compete with this jerk.


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## This is me

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Their behavior is an EA for sure. Inappropriate for married couples. In some states he may be liable for damages if your marriage fails due to his behaviors.

If he is married, contact his wife and certainly contact the HR department at the company. She needs to find a new job if she wants your marriage to work towards a healthy one.


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## Dad&Hubby

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

1. Make copies of all emails you have access to between the two of them.

2. Print said copies.

3. Ask her if she TRULY thinks her relationship with him is completely okay and above reproach. (we know her answer)

4. With your laptop open and emails ready to go to HIS boss and HR and HIS wife state "Oh, then it's totally okay if I send these emails to his boss, HR at your company and his wife. Because if there's nothing to this situation than what harm could come of it".

Be prepared to have your laptop pushed off the table LOL. I've always lived by the rule, "If I'm not okay with it being on the front page of the paper, then I should really think about what I'm doing".


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

For reasons I can’t go in to here, the HR option is not going to happen.
She stated in counseling that she felt I was making her choose between our marriage and her job. I kept saying she didn’t have to change jobs, but she needed to change her relationship with to nothing but business. Her job is very important to her, its become very big part of her self-worth (identification).


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I have put the question to her in the past what would his wife or his boss think of the e-mail in question. She doesn’t like this line of conversation... I agree more and more that she has done a whole lot of rationalizing (I guess me too somewhat).


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## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> For reasons I can’t go in to here, the HR option is not going to happen.
> She stated in counseling that she felt I was making her choose between our marriage and her job. I kept saying she didn’t have to change jobs, but she needed to change her relationship with to nothing but business. *Her job is very important to her, its become very big part of her self-worth* (identification).


More manipulation BS. If it was true, then this wouldn't be happening, her job and KEEPING her job would be her main and total focus. Not being completely unprofessional and encouraging her supervisor to become sexually interested in her.

And you are making her choose. Don't apologize for that. She can have her job and be single or she can stay married and find something else. It's not like the boss is going anywhere.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> For reasons I can’t go in to here, the HR option is not going to happen.
> She stated in counseling that she felt I was making her choose between our marriage and her job. I kept saying she didn’t have to change jobs, but she needed to change her relationship with to nothing but business. Her job is very important to her, its become very big part of her self-worth (identification).


Fixin I'm afraid you are going to fall right into the long line of guys who come here for advice and instead of taking it decide that they would rather continue to be made a fool of. Of course you're making her choose. That's the damn point. I'm sorry but I hope the divorce works out well.


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## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> For reasons I can’t go in to here, the HR option is not going to happen.
> She stated in counseling that she felt I was making her choose between our marriage and her job. *I kept saying she didn’t have to change jobs, but she needed to change her relationship with to nothing but business.* Her job is very important to her, its become very big part of her self-worth (identification).


Nothing will change unless your wife and this boss are no longer seeing each other in any capacity. Also, you can tell her if she never started up the inappropriate relationship with the boss in the first place then she wouldn't be in this situation where she has to choose. Truthfully, she does have to choose between the boss/her job or you/the marriage. It's not your fault that this choice has to be made - it's her fault because of how she acted with the boss.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Next she will be telling you that you're making her feel like she has to choose between you and this man. I guess that will keep you from doing a damn thing about anything.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I understand what most of you are saying to me. I guess I wanted to have another chance to hear if my perceptions on the situation where correct or way off base before I make some drastic changes in the lives of me, my wife, and our two kids. This past weekend was definitely the last straw for me, which is why I told her it was time to get separate checking accounts and separate our finances.


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## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

The only drastic change you should be making is packing up her things and putting them out on the porch! ! Please take some of the advice you are being offered. I hate to see someone made a fool of.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Ouch, I get it. 
It just that this would have been easier if I had just caught them red handed in the act... I know I need to end this relationship, because she isn’t going to change her relationship with him. If she did leave her job, she would be resentful toward me for the rest of our lives, so that is not a place that I want to be in. Therefore, it seems to me at this point it is too late to salvage the marriage, or she would have made course corrections already. I think at this point moving toward one of us moving out is the likely next step after establishing separate bank accounts.


----------



## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Nice guys really do finish last. Don't let her walk all over you with this Fixin. She's wrong. Plain and simple. She's wrong and if it were YOU doing it she wouldn't stand for any of it! I guarantee it. The locks would be changed and an attorney called on you so fast your head would spin.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> I have put the question to her in the past what would his wife or his boss think of the e-mail in question. *She doesn’t like this line of conversation.*.. I agree more and more that she has done a whole lot of rationalizing (I guess me too somewhat).


Of COURSE she doesn't like this line of conversation, because it makes her face the truth. She's being 100% inappropriate (AT BEST) and she's convincing everyone around her she's not.

Sorry, but you need to stop being the "understanding husband". A marriage is 2 individuals who agree to share 1 life. You have lost your individuality, she hasn't. You are no longer "you" you have become your wife's husband. Become yourself again and demand what you deserve. You need to set up that question again and when your wife says "I don't like that line of conversation" you can say "And I don't like your relationship with your boss. You may not like it, but either you answer or we're done. I want to be married to you, but if you keep stonewalling this issue, we can't continue. You're choosing your relationship with your boss over this marriage. Having 2 therapists not agree with you doesn't make them wrong. There's a point when you have a problem with a bunch of people, maybe it's not them, maybe it is you. Now answer the question or get out."

And be ready to enforce that ultimatum. PS if she STILL refuses to answer, their relationship HAS gone further.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> I understand what most of you are saying to me. I guess I wanted to have another chance to hear if my perceptions on the situation where correct or way off base before I make some drastic changes in the lives of me, my wife, and our two kids. This past weekend was definitely the last straw for me, which is why I told her it was time to get separate checking accounts and separate our finances.


I'm sorry because I know it's not easy. Too many folks around here have been there done that so that's why you have to listen. I don't think there's any chance in the world this hasn't been physical.


----------



## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

The evidence you have is quite enough. You don't have to catch them in the act. Talking about her girls with anyone but YOU is grossly inappropriate. He's a dirty dog and she's playing with him and getting fleas.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Ouch, I get it.
> It just that this would have been easier if I had just caught them red handed in the act... I know I need to end this relationship, because she isn’t going to change her relationship with him. If she did leave her job, she would be resentful toward me for the rest of our lives, so that is not a place that I want to be in. Therefore, it seems to me at this point it is too late to salvage the marriage, or she would have made course corrections already. I think at this point moving toward one of us moving out is the likely next step after establishing separate bank accounts.


Also, don't ask her to separate the finances. YOU TAKE YOURS OUT! I hate hearing about people who are being mistreated, then allow that same person establish the rules of the separation. If they mistreat you when you're still married, how do you think they're going to treat you on the way out the door.

Don't tell her. Go to the bank and pull half of everything and set yourself up. Make sure bills are set for this change so you don't overdraft etc. But don't "plan with her".


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

A Bit Much
Nice analogy. I know it, but it still hurts, even though I have been aware of these facts for over a yea now. I know I need to end this some how because it gets to the point that you can’t think anything else.


----------



## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I'm sorry fixin, but my H was married to a woman who basically did the same thing your wife is doing, except she took so far as to move cities for this job, and take the kids out from under their father's nose. She set up a new life for herself, complete with a new house, new furniture, a new car all on his dime...right after he'd finished paying for the new boob job. Before she left, she was so busy getting in shape at the gym and planning her new career with her new 'friend' he thought nothing of it, because he was just too damned NICE...didn't want to tell her what to do. Didn't want to be controlling. The only saving grace is that it all blew up in her face within 3 months, she begged him back, and he told her to go eff herself...

This type of thing boils my blood...! You really should insist that she stops this nonsense right away, and tell her that if she doesn't, you'll be forced to start your own proceedings.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

D & H
Part of the problem is I let her handle all of the finances over most of the marriage, so I’m bit in the dark on some the facts there.


----------



## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> A Bit Much
> Nice analogy. I know it, but it still hurts, even though I have been aware of these facts for over a yea now. I know I need to end this some how because it gets to the point that you can’t think anything else.


Of course it hurts. I don't envy what you're going through, I really don't. I've been hurt like this myself (she wasn't his boss though) and it was really hard to face the reality of the situation. In the end I can only control myself. If I know I've done everything I could do to salvage it on my end, then that's all I could do. Ultimately, my spouse has to hold up his end or it just isn't going to work.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I posted this over in the General Relationship section, but was advised that this might be better discussed over here the CWI section.

My wife and I have been married for 23 years this past winter, and two kids. I have been in an ongoing argument with my wife over her relationship with her boss. I began to feel that their relationship was becoming inappropriate last year (15 months ago). They take many business trips together each of the last two years. They were talking to each other constantly via work Blackberry, and work laptops, and personal laptops (e-mail). I even mentioned to her that this seemed to be a little too much. Then one day last summer after we spent a day together I felt uneasy about the way she was acting, for instance having me take a picture of her while we were visiting a winery (something she would almost never do). That night after she went to bed I did the unthinkable, I looked at her personal e-mail. I was so convinced that their might be something going on I couldn’t resist the temptation to look. Then I saw it. While we were watching a move together that night she had emailed him pictures form our winery outing that day. The subject line said “Pics – you can’t share ”. In the message she wrote about the dress she wore that day and mentioned that it made her look like she had assets that she didn’t really have. Her boss responded back by saying something like this “my goodness...the twins were acting a bit rambunctious today and showing off. You should have a talk with them about behaving responsibly. ;-) Then they went back and forth about how she was blushing then. 

I was absolutely horrified when I saw this. I went to see a counselor about it to make sure I wasn’t misreading it. The counselor advised that it might be best if I confronted my wife about this in a couple therapy sessions. I convinced my wife to go to couples therapy, and that’s when I told her about me seeing the e-mail. As you can imagine this went over like a lead balloon.

Fast forward: Now after not succeeding with two different couples therapist things are not changing. I feel like neither of us really opened up in the therapy sessions. She insists that he is just a friend, in fact her best friend. When I ask her if she loves him, she says as a friend.

Is it possible that I have been falsely accusing her of cheating? Could I have been overeating the last 15 months?

Things came to a head this past weekend after another business trip, which she failed to mention he would be on until after she got home. I told her that I thought it was time to separate our finances. To which she responded with the question of “is this a prelude to one of us moving out”. 

Did I mess up? I never had physical proof that something was going on, but I do believe that their relationship has at least been an inappropriate emotional affair of some sort...


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> I posted this over in the General Relationship section, but was advised that this might be better discussed over here the CWI section.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 23 years this past winter, and two kids. I have been in an ongoing argument with my wife over her relationship with her boss. I began to feel that their relationship was becoming inappropriate last year (15 months ago). They take many business trips together each of the last two years. They were talking to each other constantly via work Blackberry, and work laptops, and personal laptops (e-mail). I even mentioned to her that this seemed to be a little too much. Then one day last summer after we spent a day together I felt uneasy about the way she was acting, for instance having me take a picture of her while we were visiting a winery (something she would almost never do). That night after she went to bed I did the unthinkable, I looked at her personal e-mail. I was so convinced that their might be something going on I couldn’t resist the temptation to look. Then I saw it. While we were watching a move together that night she had emailed him pictures form our winery outing that day. The subject line said “Pics – you can’t share ”. In the message she wrote about the dress she wore that day and mentioned that it made her look like she had assets that she didn’t really have. Her boss responded back by saying something like this “my goodness...the twins were acting a bit rambunctious today and showing off. You should have a talk with them about behaving responsibly. ;-) Then they went back and forth about how she was blushing then.
> 
> I was absolutely horrified when I saw this. I went to see a counselor about it to make sure I wasn’t misreading it. The counselor advised that it might be best if I confronted my wife about this in a couple therapy sessions. I convinced my wife to go to couples therapy, and that’s when I told her about me seeing the e-mail. As you can imagine this went over like a lead balloon.
> 
> Fast forward: Now after not succeeding with two different couples therapist things are not changing. I feel like neither of us really opened up in the therapy sessions. She insists that he is just a friend, in fact her best friend. When I ask her if she loves him, she says as a friend.
> 
> Is it possible that I have been falsely accusing her of cheating? Could I have been overeating the last 15 months?
> 
> Things came to a head this past weekend after another business trip, which she failed to mention he would be on until after she got home. I told her that I thought it was time to separate our finances. To which she responded with the question of “is this a prelude to one of us moving out”.
> 
> Did I mess up? I never had physical proof that something was going on, but I do believe that their relationship has at least been an inappropriate emotional affair of some sort...



It's better to ask the MODS to move the thread over to here.


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> I posted this over in the General Relationship section, but was advised that this might be better discussed over here the CWI section.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 23 years this past winter, and two kids. I have been in an ongoing argument with my wife over her relationship with her boss. I began to feel that their relationship was becoming inappropriate last year (15 months ago). They take many business trips together each of the last two years. They were talking to each other constantly via work Blackberry, and work laptops, and personal laptops (e-mail). I even mentioned to her that this seemed to be a little too much. Then one day last summer after we spent a day together I felt uneasy about the way she was acting, for instance having me take a picture of her while we were visiting a winery (something she would almost never do). That night after she went to bed I did the unthinkable, I looked at her personal e-mail. I was so convinced that their might be something going on I couldn’t resist the temptation to look. Then I saw it. While we were watching a move together that night she had emailed him pictures form our winery outing that day. The subject line said “Pics – you can’t share ”. In the message she wrote about the dress she wore that day and mentioned that it made her look like she had assets that she didn’t really have. Her boss responded back by saying something like this “my goodness...the twins were acting a bit rambunctious today and showing off. You should have a talk with them about behaving responsibly. ;-) Then they went back and forth about how she was blushing then.
> 
> I was absolutely horrified when I saw this. I went to see a counselor about it to make sure I wasn’t misreading it. The counselor advised that it might be best if I confronted my wife about this in a couple therapy sessions. I convinced my wife to go to couples therapy, and that’s when I told her about me seeing the e-mail. As you can imagine this went over like a lead balloon.
> 
> Fast forward: Now after not succeeding with two different couples therapist things are not changing. I feel like neither of us really opened up in the therapy sessions. She insists that he is just a friend, in fact her best friend. When I ask her if she loves him, she says as a friend.
> 
> Is it possible that I have been falsely accusing her of cheating? Could I have been overeating the last 15 months?
> 
> Things came to a head this past weekend after another business trip, which she failed to mention he would be on until after she got home. I told her that I thought it was time to separate our finances. To which she responded with the question of “is this a prelude to one of us moving out”.
> 
> Did I mess up? I never had physical proof that something was going on, but I do believe that their relationship has at least been an inappropriate emotional affair of some sort...


Yes, she is having an emotional affair ask her to read (Not just friends) by shirley glass. 

Her texting pictures while you two enjoyed a movie was taking energy away from your marriage. It was wrong. 

Her blushing convo is inappropriate too, and it shows she did something worth blushing over and blushing suggests shame or embarrassment. 

She should be embarassed. 

My cheating spouse was also emailing the OW while he lay in bed next to me watching a moving .

I only found out the truth because someone alerted me anonymously. 

I had so many details and so much evidence he could not stop from blushing and stammering when informed of them.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Actually, our last (2nd) couples’s therapist did suggest Not Just Friends. I bought it and began to read it, and it began to make me very upset because I believe the facts were a little too close to home. My wife said in therapy she would read, but she never even asked me where the book was...


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Actually, our last (2nd) couples’s therapist did suggest Not Just Friends. I bought it and began to read it, and it began to make me very upset because I believe the facts were a little too close to home. My wife said in therapy she would read, but she never even asked me where the book was...



Insist that she read it. If she won't, file for divorce because she is likely not interested in changing her ways to save the marriage.

Also, hire a detective to try to get evidence. 

Stay calm and get all your details in order and contact an attorney pronto to learn your rights in your state.


----------



## Thorburn

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

There is certainly smoke here. I would follow your gut and move off accusing her. Start getting proof.

There is more problems in this marriage when you state that you have been married over 23 years and you did the unthinkable by looking at her personal emails. WTH-your emails, phone use etc should be an open book, IMO. It would be unthinkable (to me) to be in a marriage that has gone on this long and you have an opinion that it is unthinkable to look at your wife's emails.


----------



## Shaggy

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Have you taken steps to discover a physical affair?

Obviously they are having a very inappropriate relationship. The only question now is it also physical.

HR in a company would have him out the door for his comments to her even if she didn't find them offensive.

Bosses do not talk to employees about their cleavage. Heck, make friends don't do that either. Clearly she sent the pic to arouse and interest him.

A VAR in her car? A PI to check up on her and him on these business trips? If they are hooking up they have so much opportunity without anyone seeing. 

Is he married?


----------



## TDSC60

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Actually, our last (2nd) couples’s therapist did suggest Not Just Friends. I bought it and began to read it, and it began to make me very upset because I believe the facts were a little too close to home. My wife said in therapy she would read, but she never even asked me where the book was...


Her comments about "assets" and his comments about "the twins" makes it appear that they are comfortable discussing her body in intimate detail. This is a sexually suggestive conversation and it is not the first time they have done this. With them traveling for work it would not be surprising if they have been intimate with each other and that he has handled the "twins" on more than one occasion.

The nature of this friendship is in highly inappropriate. Opposite sex friends do not talk that way to each other. 

Her denial of anything other than friendship is straight out of the cheater's bible.

You have a wife that is cheating emotionally for sure and possibly physically as well.

Prepare yourself for the worst.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Yes, he is married.

For reasons I can’t go in to here, the HR option is not going to happen.
She stated in counseling that she felt I was making her choose between our marriage and her job. I kept saying she didn’t have to change jobs, but she needed to change her relationship with to nothing but business. Her job is very important to her, its become very big part of her self-worth (identification).


----------



## ArmyofJuan

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Did I mess up? I never had physical proof that something was going on, but I do believe that their relationship has at least been an inappropriate emotional affair of some sort...


She is on a "slippery slope" to having a full blown affair (assuming it’s not already there, cheaters always lie). She may be in denial about herself. Her going out of her way to send him a pic and not being open about her "friendship" with him are big red flags. If he's just a friend how come she isn't telling you what she is saying to him? It should be no different than if he was a girl. 

When you are married it becomes inappropriate to buddy up with a member of the opposite sex because any of them can be suitors. Your wife is playing with fire and if it’s not dealt with sooner or later this will end your marriage.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

She continues to this day, over year later insisting that the e-mail was nothing more than a joke. At first she referred to him as a mentor, then as the big brother that she never had, and then as her best friend. When I asked her if she loved him, she said yes, as a friend.


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

You should have gathered more evidence before you confronted her.

I think you should confront the boss too. Talk to his wife first and them him.


What phone does she have and does she use the home computer?


----------



## TDSC60

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Yes, he is married.
> 
> For reasons I can’t go in to here, the HR option is not going to happen.
> She stated in counseling that she felt I was making her choose between our marriage and her job. I kept saying she didn’t have to change jobs, but she needed to change her relationship with to nothing but business. Her job is very important to her, its become very big part of her self-worth (identification).


I hope you forwarded or saved all of the emails and texts you could find. Contact his wife and present all the evidence.

Counseling or therapy will not work as long as she is in the affair. You are wasting time discussing it with her. 

VAR her car and see if you can get anything.

Tell her you are asking her to choose between the other man and you.

Again - contact his wife and tell her that her husband and your wife are in an inappropriate relationship.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Well, gathering more evidence before confronting her is now more than a year behind me... 

I have asked her several times, how would his wife perceive that e-mail.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

What is a VAR?


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Voice activated recorder. You might have to snoop on her. If this has been going on for a year, it is most likely underground. Do you have access to her phone records? Is it a company phone ? Your marriage is in serious trouble


----------



## SoulStorm

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

She's lying to you. She is way into him and I bet that there has been sex or some form of sexual contact. Business trips together? You bet there has been intimacy and the mere fact that she can't wait to send him photos of her, WHILE SHE IS WITH YOU, speaks volumes. He was on her mind more than you were..and you were with her.

She's having an affair.

You need to lay down your boundaries.
She needs to choose the marriage or the job. If she chooses the job..someone needs to transfer or your marriage will be farther gone than it already is.
Let the boss's wife know.

She wore that dress at the winery..FOR HIM..not you.

It is never easy to just walk away from a marriage..your wife has chosen to walk away..while keeping you for back up.

You did not over react..as a matter of fact..you are under reacting.
This has probably gone a lot farther than you think.

Time to monitor and gather evidence.

As long as they both work there..the affair will be ongoing


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

One problem with almost all of their communication is it is now done on business supplied devices, Blackberry and laptop.


----------



## Shaggy

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Yes, he is married.
> 
> For reasons I can’t go in to here, the HR option is not going to happen.
> She stated in counseling that she felt I was making her choose between our marriage and her job. I kept saying she didn’t have to change jobs, but she needed to change her relationship with to nothing but business. Her job is very important to her, its become very big part of her self-worth (identification).


I also have a feeling her job is so important to her because it allows her to be with him all day long.

A VAR is a voice activated recorder. 

I'd get a PI to tag along on their next trips.

Another thing is to check her underwear for semen with a home test kit.


----------



## PHTlump

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> They take many business trips together each of the last two years.


Red flag.



Fixin said:


> They were talking to each other constantly via work Blackberry, and work laptops, and personal laptops (e-mail).


Red flag.



Fixin said:


> Then one day last summer after we spent a day together I felt uneasy about the way she was acting, ...


Red flag.



Fixin said:


> That night after she went to bed I did the unthinkable, I looked at her personal e-mail.


Why is that unthinkable? Should your wife have privacy to pursue affairs without you knowing? There is a saying on this board. Privacy is closing the bathroom door. Secrecy is hiding your phone calls, emails, and not telling your spouse who is going on your trips. A marriage can tolerate privacy, but not secrecy.



Fixin said:


> In the message she wrote about the dress she wore that day and mentioned that it made her look like she had assets that she didn’t really have.


This isn't even a red flag. She's overtly flirting with another man. If you have an open marriage, then that's acceptable. If you have a traditional, exclusive marriage, then it isn't.



Fixin said:


> I convinced my wife to go to couples therapy, and that’s when I told her about me seeing the e-mail. As you can imagine this went over like a lead balloon.


Of course. Cheaters never like getting caught.



Fixin said:


> She insists that he is just a friend, in fact her best friend. When I ask her if she loves him, she says as a friend.


This is standard. You could catch her in bed naked with him and she would claim they're just friends. Tell me, does she shamelessly flirt with all her friends?



Fixin said:


> Is it possible that I have been falsely accusing her of cheating? Could I have been overeating the last 15 months?


Is it possible that they haven't had sex yet? Yes. That's possible. But, it's unlikely. At a minimum, she is behaving in a grossly inappropriate manner. But we're talking about a man that she's worked closely with and taken multiple trips out of town with. Most likely, she's having sex with him.



Fixin said:


> Things came to a head this past weekend after another business trip, which she failed to mention he would be on until after she got home.


Red flag.



Fixin said:


> I told her that I thought it was time to separate our finances. To which she responded with the question of “is this a prelude to one of us moving out”.


This is telling. She wasn't shocked or dismayed. She was ready for you reaching your limit. And, seemingly, her "friendship" with her boss is more important than your marriage.



Fixin said:


> Did I mess up? I never had physical proof that something was going on, but I do believe that their relationship has at least been an inappropriate emotional affair of some sort...


You messed up by tipping your hand. At this point, assuming you're not willing to tolerate your wife cheating on you, you have two options.

Option 1 is to conclude that your wife is choosing another man over you. Even if she's not having sex with him, her relationship with him is clearly more important to her than her relationship with you. So, you file for separation or divorce and run the 180.
The Healing Heart: The 180

Option 2 is to back off and investigate. That means to put keylogger software on her laptops to monitor her emails, Facebook messages, secret email accounts, and instant messaging she's using to communicate with her boss. Also, you can put spyware on her phone that can monitor her text messages, phone calls, and some phones can monitor her location via GPS. If you can't do phone spyware, you can put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of her car with velcro to record her conversations.

Investigating like this will likely turn up many more inappropriate messages/conversations, and quite possibly some evidence of sexual activity. If you do get evidence, come back to this thread to learn how to best confront her and what to expect.

Good luck.


----------



## hotdogs

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Yes, he is married.
> 
> For reasons I can’t go in to here, the HR option is not going to happen.
> She stated in counseling that she felt I was making her choose between our marriage and her job. I kept saying she didn’t have to change jobs, but she needed to change her relationship with to nothing but business. Her job is very important to her, its become very big part of her self-worth (identification).


Your wife is full of crap. She is trying to protect the affair by making you feel like you're the wrong party in this. This is despicable and an indication that she values him more than she values you. Take action. Sounds like you've already made the first move. She needs a wake up call. Move out, serve papers or do something drastic. She is apparently not responding to rational approaches.

The answer to the question is NO, no you are not overreacting. You are obviously intuitive and picked up on something not being right. YOu followed your gut and found what you needed. A woman like that doesn't deserve a man like you, who is so in tune with her and loves her so much that you can detect a problem in the relationship so early.


----------



## Thorburn

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Voice activated recorder. They work. Trust me.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

To be honest, I’m not sure I’m willing to begin recording her anymore. I’m of the opinion when you need to start digging in to the facts that deep, because they are hidden, it must already be over. Right? I am just so frustrated and disappointed that I would probably prefer moving on at this point. How could you ever trust this person again?

The main reason I posted here today is to get at least another set of opinions other than mine, and those I have confided with so far.


----------



## The bishop

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

No you didn't overreact if anything you need to do much more. I have had an EA and they can turn to a PA in a blink of an eye (which they did). Your wife is in an EA, think about it, you know this, now it is time to put an end to it. 

Remember this..... she wants her cake and eat it too (cake eater) stay married and keep the excitement of an AFFAIR (under your nose). You are going to have to fight for your marriage.


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> To all
> 
> I have set her down and told her how hurtful this relationship with her boss has been for me. I have all along struggled with the fact that she hasn’t made any real changes for me, her husband. We have had counseling, and never could get to the bottom of anything. Yes, we did have some get to together socially last year. Moreover, each time I thought their behavior was very highschoolish. The second couples therapist blurted out “that’s sexual harassment” when explained what was said in the e-mail. * To which my wife explained its not sexual harassment if the recipient doesn’t see it that way *(Jeeze, that says it all doesn’t it).


Bingo!! There is nothing to argue here. She knows it was inappropriate thing to say and she knows that it hurts you but she doesn't care. All you have left is your self respect. If she wants to indulge in hypergamy, so be it. I am guessing she earns more than you in the relationship. She is drunk on her power.


----------



## PHTlump

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> To be honest, I’m not sure I’m willing to begin recording her anymore. I’m of the opinion when you need to start digging in to the facts that deep, because they are hidden, it must already be over. Right? I am just so frustrated and disappointed that I would probably prefer moving on at this point. How could you ever trust this person again?


Not necessarily. It is possible for a marriage to recover from an affair. However, this needs to be your red pill moment (from the Matrix). You are realizing that your wife isn't what you thought she was. She's something else. She's less loyal than you imagined. Does that mean she's unusually untrustworthy? Maybe. Maybe not. She may be typical.

The consensus on this board is that opposite-sex friends are dangerous. There is the potential to develop emotional bonds that can become stronger than the bonds within the marriage. Also, secrecy is dangerous. If your wife knows that you occasionally read her email, she will be much less likely to flirt with other men via email.

So, if you have taken the red pill and now see that no relationship should come with blind trust in the other person, then perhaps you can rebuild that lower level of trust with your wife. Because you will never trust another woman as much as you trusted your wife. And you shouldn't.



Fixin said:


> The main reason I posted here today is to get at least another set of opinions other than mine, and those I have confided with so far.


Oh yes. Your wife has behaved extremely inappropriately. You're right on the money on that account.


----------



## walkonmars

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> She insists that he is just a friend, *in fact her best friend*. When I ask her if she loves him, she says as a friend.


WOW! I say again, *WOW!*.

If my wife had said this to me about _*anyone*_ but me, I'd have felt like I'd been slapped in the face. And no, we don't have an idyllic marriage (but longer than yours). 

A sad situation for you indeed. So sorry. Listen to the folks here. Unlike you, they have the luxury of looking at the situation objectively. 

Good luck - you're in for a bumpy ride.


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> To all
> 
> I have set her down and told her how hurtful this relationship with her boss has been for me. I have all along struggled with the fact that she hasn’t made any real changes for me, her husband. We have had counseling, and never could get to the bottom of anything. Yes, we did have some get to together socially last year. Moreover, each time I thought their behavior was very highschoolish. The second couples therapist blurted out “that’s sexual harassment” when explained what was said in the e-mail. * To which my wife explained its not sexual harassment if the recipient doesn’t see it that way *(Jeeze, that says it all doesn’t it).


Bingo!! There is nothing to argue here. She knows it was inappropriate thing to say and she knows that it hurts you but she doesn't care. All you have left is your self respect. If she wants to indulge in hypergamy, so be it. I am guessing she earns more than you in the relationship. She is drunk on her power.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Yes, she makes way more.


----------



## A Bit Much

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Yes, she makes way more.


Well there it is.


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> To be honest, I’m not sure I’m willing to begin recording her anymore. I’m of the opinion when you need to start digging in to the facts that deep, because they are hidden, it must already be over. Right? I am just so frustrated and disappointed that I would probably prefer moving on at this point. How could you ever trust this person again?
> 
> The main reason I posted here today is to get at least another set of opinions other than mine, and those I have confided with so far.


you might have a nagging doubt that you might not have tried hard enough later on and you were just paranoid. Or she will start hooking up right in front of your face after the separation


----------



## 381917

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I'd file for divorce and move out.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Warlock
She makes a lot more than me. I wasn't always this way though...


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

The Bishop
I've been dealing with this situation for 15 months now. I'm not sure there's much fight left in me. How long do you keep asking someone that should love to make changes and they won't???


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Also inform the boss's wife on why you are separating


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Warlock
> She makes a lot more than me. I wasn't always this way though...


How much more? A lot? Just a bit? Significant? Does her job involve managing people?


----------



## snap

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Honestly Fixin it doesn't sound like you're one of those who would ditch a spouse on a mere suspicion. If it was so, she'd be long gone. You tip toe around your wife, or at least that's the vibe from your posts.

Remember how that one moment of reading her e-mail was worth hundred hours of speculation and doubt?

Listen to the advice here and get a VAR. You need to make an informed decision about your life.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

It is about 20% more than I make.

Yes, Manager.

But, these things shouldn’t matter


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



warlock07 said:


> You should have gathered more evidence before you confronted her.
> 
> I think you should confront the boss too. Talk to his wife first and them him.
> 
> 
> What phone does she have and does she use the home computer?


They will be more secretive now for sure but I wager a PI would get proof which I'm sure you do not want to know about.


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



PHTlump said:


> ... you have two options.
> 
> Option 1 is to conclude that your wife is choosing another man over you. Even if she's not having sex with him, her relationship with him is clearly more important to her than her relationship with you. So, you file for separation or divorce and run the 180.
> The Healing Heart: The 180
> 
> Option 2 is to back off and investigate. That means to put keylogger software on her laptops to monitor her emails, Facebook messages, secret email accounts, and instant messaging she's using to communicate with her boss. Also, you can put spyware on her phone that can monitor her text messages, phone calls, and some phones can monitor her location via GPS. If you can't do phone spyware, you can put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of her car with velcro to record her conversations.
> 
> Investigating like this will likely turn up many more inappropriate messages/conversations, and quite possibly some evidence of sexual activity. If you do get evidence, come back to this thread to learn how to best confront her and what to expect.
> 
> Good luck.


:iagree: I feel for you. Lot's of us have been through familiar situations.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I’m not in situation that I can afford a PI at this point. Besides, based on the past 15 months of unsuccessful therapy, lack of communication, sex drying up to nothing, and still no affection, and so forth, don’t I already know?


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Thundarr and PHTlump
I believe at this point I’m leaning heavily toward going with option #1. What is the 180?


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

What is a WS and a BS?


----------



## PHTlump

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> I’m not in situation that I can afford a PI at this point. Besides, based on the past 15 months of unsuccessful therapy, lack of communication, sex drying up to nothing, and still no affection, and so forth, don’t I already know?


Kind of. If you spent the last 15 months asking her if she was cheating, and she spent the time denying it, then you've just been running in place and not getting anywhere. That's much different than spending 15 months trying to reconcile.

Everyone here will tell you that counseling is not the first step. Ending the affair is the first step. If she's unwilling to end her affair, then you have no hope of reconciliation. You must file.

However, once you file, or make it clear that you intend to file, sometimes wayward spouses will suddenly see the light and realize that a choice must be made. At that point, it's possible that she will choose you and begin to work toward reconciliation.


----------



## PHTlump

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Thundarr and PHTlump
> I believe at this point I’m leaning heavily toward going with option #1. What is the 180?


The 180 basically means changing your behavior 180 degrees from what hasn't worked to attract your wife to you. The behaviors in the 180 emotionally distance yourself from your wife and make it easier for you to detach from her and move on.

An added benefit is that, occasionally, waywards will notice the change in your behavior, realize that they are about to lose their spouse, and suddenly wake up and recommit to the marriage.

Click the link in my previous message.


----------



## PHTlump

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> What is a WS and a BS?


Wayward Spouse and Betrayed Spouse.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Hey, I read the 180 plan, and I like that as a starting point form here...


----------



## MattMatt

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

WS = Wayward Spouse BS = Betrayed Spouse.

Why is contacting Human Resources/Personnel not an option?


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

PHTlump
I totally agree about counseling not working until both parties are ready to make things work. This includes making the appropriate give and take by both. I never thought we were going to get anywhere until she at the very least admitted that there was an emotional connection between her and her boss, which was a crossing of a boundary in our marriage. However, she refuses to admit any such things.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

MattMatt
I can’t answer this on here, but it is definitely part of the problem.


----------



## MattMatt

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> MattMatt
> I can’t answer this on here, but it is definitely part of the problem.


I used to work in an HR/training department. PM me, tell me what the reasons are, I'll see if I can come up with a way round them.


----------



## Shaggy

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

It sounds like you are ready to give up and D her. Do you have kids?

I think you shoud contact the OMW and tell her you are divorcing because it is your belief that she and OM are cheating together.

The fact that sex has dried up does say it all. Clearly she likes to show the twins off and flirt so there is dersire there, just not for her husband.

Find the money for a PI, when you have the proof you can sue her for the cost of the PI in the divorce.

Or just do it yourself. Follow her, find her room number. When she is out for the day drop by the desk show your ID, explain you are there with her on the trip and left your key in the room.

They'll check your ID and see your from the same address and name and let you in. You can later on either catch them at it, or just wait there for the two of them to come in together.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Yes, we have two kids, one grown, one almost grown.


----------



## snap

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Doubt that will work. Hotels know people cheat there all the time, they don't want any drama on premises.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

snap & Shaggy
I'm looking to keep this as simple as possible. I think starting with the separation of finances and the 180, is going to be my approach for now.


----------



## donny64

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> The Bishop
> I've been dealing with this situation for 15 months now. I'm not sure there's much fight left in me. How long do you keep asking someone that should love to make changes and they won't???


You don't ASK...you TELL. As long as this is a "request" from you, she'll keep right on with what she's doing. Which is having an affair with her boss.

Bosses do not comment about "the girls" and employees do not "blush" at what their bosses say. They've crossed the employer / employee relationship boundary. And they're BOTH responsible for it. They could both be in for a world of professional and personal hurt here.

She's telling you that you want her to chose between her "job" and her marriage? Damn straight you are. You know this is inappropriate, as does she. And she's lied about it. It is time for her to remove herself from that situation, or for you to remove yourself from it.

They've got this perfect little affair thing going now. See each other all the time, and running off for sexy meetings on the company's dime, with a perfect cover story of "work" to throw off their spouses. Time to put an end to their perfect little world...and here is how you do it:

First, SHUT UP! For a couple more weeks (or months...whatever it takes). 

Second, GATHER PROOF during this time. VAR's, emails, phone records, private investigator. Whatever you have to do, get PROOF of the affair. Not "hunches", but PROOF!

Third, once you have proof, turn their little fairy tale world of white fluffy clouds, fairy dust, and rainbows UPSIDE DOWN. And consider doing the following;

1. Change the locks, put her crap out, and file for divorce.

2. Notify his wife and present her with proof once you have it.

3. Go to their office, and demand to speak to him. If he refuses, get chitty and loud. State that you need to speak to him NOW so that he understands that a MARRIED BOSS should not be phucking his employees and your soon to be ex wife.

4. At this point, she'll be fired. If she's not, do not even consider speaking to her again until she has quit.

Even if there is no proof of a physical affair (but I believe there will be if you dig deep enough and are smart about it), this is inappropriate, and you should not allow it to continue. She chose this path of having an inappropriate relationship (by most any standard, professional or personal) with her boss. Now she must live with the consequences, which means changing jobs. If she was not professional enough to maintain a professional distance with this man, she's not professional enough to work with him. Period.


----------



## TBT

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Imo because they've been traveling together for 2 years,there has been inappropriate texting and she places their relationship at the very least on equal footing with your marriage,I wouldn't put anything past her.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Donny64
Assuming we are all correct in what we believe has been going on between them I’m not interested in repairing it anymore. As far as the work place situation goes, that’s a no go for me.


----------



## KanDo

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> MattMatt
> I can’t answer this on here, but it is definitely part of the problem.


Fisrt off, I am sorry you are here. She doesn't see anything as wrong so forget any couseling or therapy. You definitely need to do the 180 for yourself. You also need to come to grips that this is an affair. You should need to post to know that. I am fairly confident that this has gone physical already. I don't understand why you can't report the issue to HR unless the boss is the owner of a small firm. If there is an HR department I would complain about the inappropriate use of company assets.

But, the reality is that she is having her cake and eating it too. The only thing that might jolt her is being served with divorce papers; but, only if you mean it. (and you should mean it by now)

Good luck


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Thanks.


----------



## The bishop

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

If you have no fight left... be commited to end it. Once she notices that you are moving on and not going to be plan B... it might wake her up


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I have mixed feelings now about waking her up, trust issues...


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> One problem with almost all of their communication is it is now done on business supplied devices, Blackberry and laptop.


If you can afford to hire a detective, hire one. 

It's the best and most reliable way to verify an affair. 

All the other stuff can be worked around if your spouse is tech savvy. 

The Var in the car or under her desk at work is a good idea though. They have very very small VARS.

She knows you are on to her. She may be way underground. 

Get evidence, than go to the bosses wife with it. And, then go to HR.

She should be willing to leave her job. She can find another. You are not asking her to retire, only change jobs.


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Do what you are comfortable with. You can start thinking about reconciliation after she "wakes up" and you are convinced about it


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Blackberries are notorious for their security. Tough luck on that!! He might get something on the work laptop. But I am not sure if he has access to it.

I think the best bet would be a VAR in her car for a few days when they have the separation talk. But he seems to be unwilling to do it.


----------



## MattMatt

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

OP, I just answered your PM. Hope it helps.


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Shaggy said:


> It sounds like you are ready to give up and D her. Do you have kids?
> 
> I think you shoud contact the OMW and tell her you are divorcing because it is your belief that she and OM are cheating together.
> 
> The fact that sex has dried up does say it all. Clearly she likes to show the twins off and flirt so there is dersire there, just not for her husband.
> 
> Find the money for a PI, when you have the proof you can sue her for the cost of the PI in the divorce.
> 
> Or just do it yourself. Follow her, find her room number. When she is out for the day drop by the desk show your ID, explain you are there with her on the trip and left your key in the room.
> 
> They'll check your ID and see your from the same address and name and let you in. You can later on either catch them at it, or just wait there for the two of them to come in together.


Fixin, if she earns more she may have to pay you alimony. Talk to an attorney.

Also, the PI will come from out of the marital assets prior to split, if she is a cheater. 

It sounds like she is at least in an emotional affair, but a physical affair seems likely given the trips.


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Donny64
> Assuming we are all correct in what we believe has been going on between them I’m not interested in repairing it anymore. As far as the work place situation goes, that’s a no go for me.


Why is it a no go?

If she works in a hotel, those types of jobs are fairly easy to get right now. 

If it is a large hotel chain threaten to go to the press, they do not want a boss and an employ screwing around on the company ticket.


----------



## donny64

Fixin said:


> Donny64
> Assuming we are all correct in what we believe has been going on between them I’m not interested in repairing it anymore. As far as the work place situation goes, that’s a no go for me.


If you're truly done, then I agree. Do not put yourself in a position to have to pay alimony if you don't need to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



donny64 said:


> If you're truly done, then I agree. Do not put yourself in a position to have to pay alimony if you don't need to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good point, Donny. 

He should only do that if he wants to reconcile and first break up affair.


----------



## donders

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Sara8 said:


> Also, the PI will come from out of the marital assets prior to split, if she is a cheater.



I don't ever recall reading a law about that.

"If there is cheating, costs associated with discovering and exposing such cheating will be split evenly between the divorcing spouses as sayeth the law!"

"In the event that no cheating proof is so obtained, the suspecting party will bear the full costs of such investigation!"


Don't think so


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



donders said:


> I don't ever recall reading a law about that.
> 
> "If there is cheating, costs associated with discovering and exposing such cheating will be split evenly between the divorcing spouses as sayeth the law!"
> 
> "In the event that no cheating proof is so obtained, the suspecting party will bear the full costs of such investigation!"
> 
> 
> Don't think so


Hi Donders:

In the U.S. it depends on the state you live in. 

Some states will give the betrayed spouse, if there is solid proof of cheating, more than a split for money spent on the affair partner. 

Also, the detective comes out of marital assets, prior to the money being divided evenly. 

Talking to an attorney is crucial as is getting solid proof of a physical affair. 

Some states are no fault but even in those states it's up to the judge and he can give more money to the BS, if he feels it is warranted. 

A good attorney is a must.


----------



## donders

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Who knew?

I was of the impression that the courts don't give a hoot about cheating they just divide the stuff up as evenly as possible.


----------



## Shaggy

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



donders said:


> Who knew?
> 
> I was of the impression that the courts don't give a hoot about cheating they just divide the stuff up as evenly as possible.


Even in states that do 50/50 expenses incurred before the D are marital expenses, like say a good PI.


----------



## Vegemite

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Hi fixin, and sorry you're here. I just read your thread. You're CW is sure gaslighting you. And cheaters lie. That we know. Given the extent of their "business" trips away, you have to believe that they've gone physical with this. Why wouldn't they.Sorry.

She doesn't appear to have any remorse or respect either. I'm glad you're not jumping into reconciling with her. She'd need to have a huge attitude change for that to be considered. But sounds like that isn't likely now. Stay strong.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



381917 said:


> I'd file for divorce and move out.


Fixin, I do feel for you, but you know what, it's time you enjoy some of the situations that happen to Jerk-a$$ men who climb high and then don't respect the spouse they left behind at home.

DO NOT MOVE OUT. Everything in the relationship is half yours. Don't do ANYTHING outward. Based on everything being said, she's 100% selfish and you serve a purpose for her, her boss serves a new one. Go to a lawyer and secretly make copies of EVERYTHING, bank statements, investments, 401K's, everything. I hate to say this but you need to protect your investment into this relationship. While she was off building her career on business trips, working late etc. you were holding down the house. One isn't more valuable than the other. You are due 50% of all assets and frankly, look forward to spousal support. Also fight for custody, her career is obviously so demanding that she would struggle to supply a stable environment.

I know you still love her and I know you want to do right by her, but it's time to get PI$$ED off. She has put you, your marriage and your family (YES, she's hurting your family by allowing the husband and wife bond to become questioned) lower on the priority list than her relationship with her boss. It's time to put your foot down and demand she either stops the BS (and that means no longer having ANY relationship with this other man) or she can have that relationship but she can't have you (and the family that is obviously not important).

She sees you as weak and that you're just going to roll over and accept her behavior. She's selfish knowing she can have whatever she wants with him and you'll still be there. Fixin, I hope you fixthis.

Good luck. I know this isn't easy, but your wife isn't respecting you as a husband and a man. It's time to demand respect.

Here's a question for you that I think I already know. Does she talk with YOU the same way she talks with him? (this is just to set your anger in place because right now, you need to get angry and not let her talk you "off the cliff" so to speak. DO NOT listen to a single word she says unless it's "I'm sorry, I'll change". It's time to judge her by her ACTIONS only!!)


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

D & H
We are not talking much at all now. Since I informed her that we need to separate our finances, she has been very quiet. I believe our lack of communication has been a part of the problem for a long time now. I know she will NEVER say she is sorry. It’s not in her make up...


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Vegemite
I agree, I just don’t see here ever admitting anything, much less apologizing. For the most part I still believe she thinks she has done nothing wrong (assuming there has been no PA), at least she has convinced herself this. A couple of times in therapy I got to see a small glimmer of some of her rationale, she was the one who had made sacrifices throughout the marriage (which isn’t true either).


----------



## TDSC60

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Vegemite
> I agree, I just don’t see here ever admitting anything, much less apologizing. For the most part I still believe she thinks she has done nothing wrong (assuming there has been no PA), at least she has convinced herself this. A couple of times in therapy I got to see a small glimmer of some of her rationale, she was the one who had made sacrifices throughout the marriage (which isn’t true either).


Altering marital history to make the cheater the one who has made all the sacrifices in the marriage is in the cheater bible. They use the false history to justify what they are doing. 

"I have been the one who has sacrificed my life to this marriage while he has done nothing. It is time for me to be happy". ME, ME, ME, ME, ME. 

That is what you are dealing with. Total denial of your history together (all the good was her, all the bad was you) and a total justification of her actions no matter how hurtful and destructive they are.


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Vegemite
> I agree, I just don’t see here ever admitting anything, much less apologizing. For the most part I still believe she thinks she has done nothing wrong (assuming there has been no PA), at least she has convinced herself this. A couple of times in therapy I got to see a small glimmer of some of her rationale, she was the one who had made sacrifices throughout the marriage (which isn’t true either).


You are correct that she will not admit to anything. It's would be a rare case if she did. That's why a PI is needed because you have to get proof and make is real. She's in a bubble or fog until there's no other choice.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I do feel there has been some rationalizing on her part, but I hope I’m not guilty of the same.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I’ve gotten the PI advice numerous times now, but can’ afford. Plus, it makes me feel real sleazy...

I think the 180 plan, and a gradual shifting toward a separation is best for me now.


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Either way if you are looking to divorce or to reconcile the next step is the same.

Uncover the truth and expose it.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> D & H
> We are not talking much at all now. Since I informed her that we need to separate our finances, she has been very quiet. I believe our lack of communication has been a part of the problem for a long time now. I know she will NEVER say she is sorry. It’s not in her make up...


Well then you have a big decision for yourself. Can you accept being the 2nd class citizen in your marriage and being her "fill in blank for whatever she wants at any given time" because she's showing you where you stand.

It's not in her make up? No, I guarantee if she felt real remorse about doing something she saw as a big mistake with the risk of losing something she truly cared about, she'd say she was sorry. If she screwed up at work, and her boss (or worse someone higher) was coming down on her with the possibility of her losing her job, she'd be the most apologetic and hard working to fix her mistake woman you'd ever meet. So don't allow yourself to accept bad behavior towards you as a general "it's not who she is" BS statement.

I'm not a big fan of all of the Alpha talk that is present on this website because in my opinion it doesn't apply to me and my wife, and for some it's totally bogus because it depends on the people involved, but in your case, it's 100% applicable. Her boss is her alpha mate, you are the member of the pack who is relegated to sleep on the edge, unless the real leaders of the pack want your body heat for a particularly cold night. You have to raise the children and clean up the poop while they go off hunting and being the primaries. I'm sorry for being so blunt but man, you've been pushed down the totem pole.

The hard part of this situation is your wife's perceptions. You can't fix your marriage unless she sees, recognizes and accepts what is going on AND WANTS TO FIX IT. She obviously doesn't care about fixing it (hence the 2 failed counseling trips). So it's high time you start looking out for number 1 (which is you my friend, not HER. She's been watching out for number 1 for a long time)


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> I’ve gotten the PI advice numerous times now, but can’ afford. Plus, it makes me feel real sleazy...
> 
> I think the 180 plan, and a gradual shifting toward a separation is best for me now.


I think you really would like for things to get better and then just forget about all of this. It's your choice and the 180 may serve that purpose. I still contend that she will never admit to anything and you will be at odds with your trust of what she says forever.

I would rather nail her on it and then you still can choose to work it out. A voice activated recorder is pretty cheap.


----------



## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Honestly, I'd blow it 100% out of the water, HR, the dude's wife, your wife's family, anyone I could find, and then pick up the pieces where they land. You're letting her walk all over you.


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

You can never come to terms with what you don't know.

My ex had an affair with her boss. This was many years ago and R would not have been possible at the stage you are in now. Once I had proof then she wanted to R. I was not willing to do it which was my choice. You may choose differently which is fine but I don't think have any control of the situation until you get proof and expose it. Then it's out there and can be dealt with.

This sucks to go through and we feel your pain.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Thundarr
The more I think about it, the more I realize the right course of action for me is separation. You are correct, she will never admit to anything. However, there are many other issues here, which prevent me from going 100% nuclear, or clear the decks so to speak. That may make me feel a little better temporally, but it will hurt may others for no good outcome/purpose. So, having come to these conclusions after asking myself some important questions over the last several days, I think it’s time I gently move us in to splitting.


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Good luck Fixin


----------



## snap

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Separation is usually a lose-lose proposition for BS.

Consider filing for divorce.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

D & H
I agree with your sentiment in my own way. For me, the answer now is we need to separate. It is never going change as long as we live together because there is no reason to. 

I posted this same thread over in the CWI section, and I’m seeing and answering the same response over there too. These last two days on the forum have been eye opening at least from a conformational stance...

How do I merge these two threads?


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

In my state, you can’t just file for divorce. There’s a minimum separation period.


----------



## snap

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

You have trial period/legal separation/mediation time post-filing in many, if not most places of the world.

The separation has to be official and documented no matter what you call it. You need to get the clock ticking.


----------



## lordmayhem

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> In my state, you can’t just file for divorce. There’s a minimum separation period.


Is that North Carolina or Maryland? I know some states require a year of legal separation or more before divorce can be filed.


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Like another poster mentioned above there is this strange phenomena where many cheating spouses are up to remorse, change and working on the marriage once they are found out (through hard evidence). They suddenly have a change of heart once the BS has the real truth.

Thought you might want to know.


----------



## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Do your separation, but expose anyway. Stop worrying about hurting other people. Why should you be the one hurting? Why let them get away with this?


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> I’ve gotten the PI advice numerous times now, but can’ afford. Plus, it makes me feel real sleazy...
> 
> I think the 180 plan, and a gradual shifting toward a separation is best for me now.


Sleazy?

Cheating on a spouse is sleazy. Lying is sleazy.

Hiring a detective to get the facts in the face of consistent lying is not sleazy, it's necessary and will help you both in reconciling and in divorce. 

You can't fix what you don't know is broken. 

The truth will set you free.


----------



## snap

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

:iagree:

This is not sleazy, this is fact based decision-making.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Can not afford PI.


----------



## snap

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

You can do much of the discovery work (VAR, keylogger, browser history, phone records etc) yourself. Hiring a PI is just subcontracting that.

Most people here had to do it on their own effort.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

I could do VAR, the others are not an option.


----------



## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

VAR should be enough


----------



## lordmayhem

*Re: Did I Overreact?*


----------



## Sara8

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> I could do VAR, the others are not an option.


Good. Now lay low and stop confronting her for awhile so that she gets confident again and slips up more easily. 

Good luck, my friend.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

S8
Unfortunately, I think the lay low opportunity may be passed. This has been an ongoing issue for us 15 months now. In addition, I just told her to days ago that I want to separate our finances and bank account. I’m sure she is in her own preemptive mode now... We’re talking about a very capable person here.


----------



## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> S8
> Unfortunately, I think the lay low opportunity may be passed. This has been an ongoing issue for us 15 months now. In addition, I just told her to days ago that I want to separate our finances and bank account. I’m sure she is in her own preemptive mode now... We’re talking about a very capable person here.


I really hope you can find your way through all of this...you're going about it completely wrong, IMHO, and I do not mean this as an insult by any means...you are sounding a little to worried about pissing her off, when she should be the one quaking in her boots. She only thinks she has power because you keep on giving it to her. She wants to keep you weak so that she can keep on having her 'friendship'. And that's total crap. But still, if you're willing to put up with it, and you won't do anything about it, there isn't much hope.


----------



## snap

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

The OP is not ripe to act on advice yet. 

He won't file (D or separation, doesn't matter), he won't use VAR, he won't expose. Most of his responses are filled with disclaimers and excuses to not actually do anything. Conflict avoidance at it's best. Did anyone suggest "No More Mr. Nice Guy" yet?

Why are you so afraid of your wife? You say you don't want to hurt others, there are special circumstances preventing doing this or that. But all it has in common is they would be offensive to your wife. The pattern is quite obvious, you are afraid to upset your wife.

Hell even your thread is titled *Did I overreact?*


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

CG
I don’t want to continue it. That’s why I’m convinced it’s time to separate. I agree that up to this point I have been made to feel like a fool and a sucker. However, I had to try it my way over the last year, such trying couples’ therapy (twice). I also realize without hard evidence that I’m operating off of some observations (the e-mail, and other social event, and the Blackberry usage), and my gut instinct every being with the person for so long. 

I think one of the most frustrating aspects of this has been, suppose she’s correct about them being “just friends” (I know get proof), it’s the fact that she wouldn’t make some concessions or changes to relieve the stress and anxieties her friendship caused even if it was only a perception.

I’m sure many people have come on this forum and said “I didn’t think this person was capable of this kind of lack of empathy when confronted”. This has been one of the most perplexing parts of this situation. I have read the definitions of the fog on here, and that does explain some of the possibilities to her actions (once again, I know, no proof). It’s this lack of caring to show empathy for my point of view or perceptions that makes me ready to throw the towel in.


----------



## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

OP - Friends do not discuss cleavage. It's inappropriate. My husband has a female (former) colleague that he helps out every now and then with job references, etc. The minute I see anything about her cleavage in an email or text message, is the day I bring down the flipping walls on both of them.

Anyways, I really do hope you find your way.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

CG
Believe me the night I read that e-mail was D-day for me. It was the most painful emotional moment I can remember. She hates it when I bring up that e-mail, but I can not get over it or accept it as a “friendly joke” to this day. In reality, do I really need to get more proof than that, that things are done for us considering how things have played out since then.... In the eye of the beholder, right?

I guess my original posting on this thread Did I overreact? I was looking for conformation, that almost anything I do after that was legitimate.


----------



## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Well, again, no you didn't overreact, and at the very least, your wife should be giving up this friend because the whole thing makes you uncomfortable...I don't know, if my husband asked me to do that, I would because I love him and I'd never continue behaving in a way that he wasn't 100% OK with, regardless of whether I was guilty of anything or whether it was just an innocent friendship.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

The VAR is something that I will do.
My point was do you really need more proof that something is wrong than what was conversed in that e-mail?


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

CG
That’s how I view it, and I would expect myself to react if the shoe was on the other foot. My wife says you don’t know unless you’re in that situation, so you don’t know what you would have done...


----------



## CandieGirl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Depends on what you plan on doing about it, I suppose.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Moving on without her.


----------



## MarriedTex

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> The VAR is something that I will do.
> My point was do you really need more proof that something is wrong than what was conversed in that e-mail?


If you're asking the question, then "yes", you probably do need more proof. If you had enough proof in hand to satisfy yourself, you probably wouldn't be on here, asking our opinions. Instead, you'd be onto your next stage already, with her in your rearview mirror.

Everybody has different tolerance levels, different needs for assurance. If VAR gives you the absolute smoking gun that you need to move forward, then go do it.


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



CandieGirl said:


> I really hope you can find your way through all of this...you're going about it completely wrong, IMHO, and I do not mean this as an insult by any means...you are sounding a little to worried about pissing her off, when she should be the one quaking in her boots. She only thinks she has power because you keep on giving it to her. She wants to keep you weak so that she can keep on having her 'friendship'. And that's total crap. But still, if you're willing to put up with it, and you won't do anything about it, there isn't much hope.


Fixin. Let me sincerely agree with CandieGirl. You'd be surprised how consistent your actions are with scripts that we have participated in and seen over and over here. Fight that urge to react from a position of fear and denial.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Fixin,

Here's why you need proof. There's a high probability that some time in the future, when your pain has subsided some, that she's going to want to reconcile. She'll shift to taking responsibility for ONLY what you know for a fact, like "I know the breast comment from him was probably a bit inappropriate, but it was just innocent banter". Etc. She'll appease you enough to get you back, (because you obviously love her a great deal) and be more deceptive about her activities. You NEED to know the full truth.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

D & H
I think I’m done. I’m ready to move on to set in motion the processes to separate.


----------



## walkonmars

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> ...I know she will NEVER say she is sorry. It’s not in her make up...


I'd be willing to take odds on a small wager that says that if you do expose the OM she'd be apologizing to him for days.

You're making a good move.


----------



## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> D & H
> I think I’m done. I’m ready to move on to set in motion the processes to separate.


Good luck. She'll spill anything she's been withholding if she thinks she's losing you because of trust.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Thundarr
I doubt she will ever spill the beans on anything. That is not in her personality, very stubborn, and usually confident in her intelligence. I do believe she has her own self-confidence issues, which does drive her actions to some degree, but we haven’t delved in to these issues entirely. I’m not sure she is willing to openly admit any of her flaws at the moment though. I do hear about some of mine though… And yet, I didn’t hear about how I wasn’t meeting any of her needs.


----------



## Will_Kane

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

It's very possible, even likely, that she is having an affair. I know she is having an affair. You don't have proof. You don't need proof. 

You know she is having a relationship with her boss that goes beyond the bounds of just work, you have told her how uncomfortable it makes you. You have been married 23 years and have never made a fuss over anything before. It's not like you're two months into the marriage and she is afraid you will be unduly jealous of every one.

Her failure to acknowledge that you at least have legitimate concerns speaks volumes about how she feels about you and the marriage.

If she would choose this so-called "friendship" over you and the marriage, that speaks volumes as well, especially considering that three children are involved.

Good luck. I hope she comes to her senses once you file.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Kane
This is exactly how I’m viewing our relationship at this point. I have said to myself so many times over the last year, “She is putting her friendship with him over our marriage, or our relationship or our friendship”. Plus I have been feeling more and more disrespected, I feel that way not just because we are married but because of our shared history over many years now together. I continually think that alone should have warranted some truthfulness in her feelings of not being happy or not getting something she needed from me. Nevertheless, I think she has rationalized the whole thing to herself to allow herself to do it and continue to maintain a relationship with him that isn’t strictly professional.

I’m going to pursue a separation.


----------



## mule kick

Life sucks in some ways. It's not you and it doesn't have to be her or her boss. It's just life, because time has to pass and people have to live it. 23 years is a successful relationship in our world. Yes you deserve more and better than this and so does the boss's wife (and she deserves to hear why you are filing). As long as you have had to deal with this I hope you can leave most of the anger out of the next phase. Sounds like she can fight dirty and you could have an epic divorce battle but there may be no need. You know it's over and so does she. Moving on doesn't have to include all the drama.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Mule kick
Unfortunately, I think she will get very angry as we proceed with the processes of separation and this will lead to resentful and even vengeful action. It is sad that I’m thinking that way about my own wife, but I have assessed the situation as such. She is not around this weekend so we’re not talking about it. Though, even when we are around each other we don’t talk about these issues (I’m always to worried about broaching the subject when the time is right, and she just wants to avoid it).


----------



## Sbrown

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Mule kick
> Unfortunately, I think she will get very angry as we proceed with the processes of separation and this will lead to resentful and even vengeful action. It is sad that I’m thinking that way about my own wife, but I have assessed the situation as such. She is not around this weekend so we’re not talking about it. Though, even when we are around each other we don’t talk about these issues (I’m always to worried about broaching the subject when the time is right, and she just wants to avoid it).


Are you serious? Your truly scared of your wife aren't you? :slap::wtf: Who gives a fly fock if she gets mad! IT IS A DIVORCE OF COURSE IT IS GOING TO LEAD TO RESENTFUL AND VENGEFUL ACTION! OMG!


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Sbrown
Thanks for the slap to the face. I get it.


----------



## mule kick

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Mule kick
> Unfortunately, I think she will get very angry as we proceed with the processes of separation and this will lead to resentful and even vengeful action. It is sad that I’m thinking that way about my own wife, but I have assessed the situation as such. She is not around this weekend so we’re not talking about it. Though, even when we are around each other we don’t talk about these issues (I’m always to worried about broaching the subject when the time is right, and she just wants to avoid it).


Yeah that's another thing about these affairs. Even if the subject isn't brought up to the boss's wife, when she has nothing more to lose because she is divorced, he may suddenly lose interest. That would lead to resentment of you just for having a spine and getting out of it all- or an attempt to reconcile but why would you? How long do you have to separate before the divorce can happen? I am fortunate in Iowa it was about 90 days after the petition is signed that the divorce takes place can take place and the marital home is separated. I think if my WS hadn't signed right away it would have taken longer. It's all about attitude, what does she really want, you at home *****ing and moaning for eternity while she lives it up with her boss? No, probably not. Frame it as though you are setting her free to live it up, not that you are getting your revenge.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

12 months where I'm at.


----------



## JCD

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

"Dear Mr. XY, Head of Human Resources of Pzzz Inc,

It has come to my attention that there might be an inappropriate relationship between Wifey and Mr. J. It has been affecting my marriage in multiple negative ways.

I am FORMALLY requesting an investigation into how much travel they do together, whether her presence is strictly necessary, and an analysis of various room expenses during that time. Is there someone else he can take instead? As a Jr Grade Secretarial Lunk, I feel that Pzzz Inc has many other personnel who might benefit from travel.

I am formally requesting an investigation into the use of their work Blackberries for inappropriate personal communication of any variety. 

I am formally requesting a copy of the section of your human resource manual regarding superior and subordinate relationships and your policy of dalliances within your organization. Perhaps some remedial discussion of such a policy might be in order for the two people named.

I am forwarding an email shared by Mr. J sent to MRS. Wifey. Is this the caliber of executive that you have in your organization? Might I ask how many violations of business etiquette you find in this letter?

I am formally requesting both this letter, the results of your internal investigation, and the forwarded emails be put into both of their permanent files and I am requesting your response to this request.

I expect to see the relevant documents from your human resource manual within 5 business days. I expect to hear the results of your investigation within 30 business days.

Attempts to ignore these blatantly reasonable requests will force me to seek counsel about my other options.

Please note that I CCed your VP in charge of that division...and your own.

Thank you for your speed on this matter.

X"

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.


----------



## JCD

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> It is about 20% more than I make.
> 
> Yes, Manager.
> 
> But, these things shouldn’t matter


Then make sure YOU get alimony! SERIOUSLY! That is all that is left.


----------



## JCD

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> S8
> Unfortunately, I think the lay low opportunity may be passed. This has been an ongoing issue for us 15 months now. In addition, I just told her to days ago that I want to separate our finances and bank account. I’m sure she is in her own preemptive mode now... We’re talking about a very capable person here.



:soapbox:

I can't FRIGGING BELIEVE YOU!

What you SHOULD have done is TAKEN HALF THE MONEY! Not pouted and say "I wil think really hard about taking the money if you don't start loving me again' Think very hard on how that sentence sounded.

So, if wifey is OH SO ULTRA CAPABLE, she's already looted her accounts, leaving you with bubkis.

So what are you going to do? SHE has all the money because you were stupid..
.
.
.
I'm going to tell you what you are going to do. You go to the bank (You have to know at least that much) and tell them that you are going to subpeona their records for how many assets were in the bank on the day of your Fiscal Whine. Now the courts know how much money she stole and she'll have to give it back.

You will request a copy of your tax records from the IRS to see how much money she REALLY makes...just so you can verify.

You will get her SS number and run her credit report to find out how many credit cards she has and with what limit.

YOU DO NOT FRIGGING TELL HER ANY OF THIS!

And you start to make ATM withdrawals. Large ones to build a next egg, fully documented so she can't leave you without a retainer for a lawyer.

You sell something valuable you have (or better, SHE has. Jewelry anyone?) to get a nest egg.

You contact her HR department to find out what stock options and retirement plans she has so you can get your slice of that.

You get an assessment (Free on the internet) of your home value as well as blue book your cars.

YOU DO NOT TALK TO HER.

IF she's foolish enough to have left out the financial documents, you get the laundry basket, the jar of quarters, take them to the library and PHOTOCOPY EVERY SCRAP.

You buy a Passport back up drive and download your entire computer Hard Drive.

Because you seem to not get it YOU DO NOT TELL HER ANY OF THIS!

Hide the records, the back up hard drive, and the money. Hide the valuables you want. You will also be held accountable for what you take, but right now, you are playing catch up. VERY LATE catch up.

You seem to be hiding a lot of information which makes giving you advice impossible.


----------



## ChelseaBlue

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Kane
> This is exactly how I’m viewing our relationship at this point. I have said to myself so many times over the last year, “She is putting her friendship with him over our marriage, or our relationship or our friendship”. Plus I have been feeling more and more disrespected, I feel that way not just because we are married but because of our shared history over many years now together. I continually think that alone should have warranted some truthfulness in her feelings of not being happy or not getting something she needed from me. Nevertheless, I think she has rationalized the whole thing to herself to allow herself to do it and continue to maintain a relationship with him that isn’t strictly professional.
> *
> I’m going to pursue a separation.*


I have read your whole thread and I am sorry you are going through all this. I wish you the best in the future. It will take some time but you will get over this.

Good luck.


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

CB
Thank you.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Fixin, my heart sank reading your thread and I found myself reliving a lot of emotion from our situation. My husband was involved in a similar EA with his subordinate at work. She work(s) directly under him and I caught them in a full-blown EA that was on the brink of a PA. The emails were not unlike what you read between your wife and her boss (and I actually thought "could this be her husband?" But you're not...) But it really is amazing how so much of this stuff is all the same.

My husband still works with the OW but he is practicing full transparency and is looking for a new job. (We can't afford for him to quit for a myriad of reasons.) If he even sees her down the hall he lets me know. He has stopped working on projects with her. He's blocked her in the company messaging service. (After she found out he gave me access to ALL past emails without my asking for it!--and they were PAINFUL to read--she went ballistic. But then she still tried to message him. I went into his office and we blocked her. I've verified she's still blocked.). These are just some of the things he's done BUT he was deep in the fog. Trickle-truthed me. Said they were just friends. My initial confrontation was after dinner with she and her husband and her interaction told me everything I needed to know. My husband was clueless to me and focused on her. He threw out the friend's line. Later that week I cracked his email and found some super flirty stuff and thats when DD2 happened. It was awful. I was ready to leave. I took off my wedding band. I wouldn't take his calls. He told her I found out and she fessed up to flirtation to her husband. And had coffee with me to apologize and proceeded to minimize, rugsweep and lie. 

My husband meanwhile was in deep sh-t. The bad emails happened within a space of two months though the attraction had been there a year. They had worked together for maybe 8 years but during that time she was spawning and chubby. When the weight came off and she found her inner predator and he got his lust on they were headed down the river! 

With Divine intervention (I see it that way)...I found Not Just Friends and started educating myself. I bought a copy for him and he started reading bits. Trickle Truth began and it was awful but as he learned more and saw I was serious about leaving if things weren't turned around he started to come out of the fog. Showing allegiance to me instead of her. One of the biggest things was fessing up to his elderly parents. (And I went to visit her husband one morning. Her attempts at "friendship" with my husband dramatically stopped after my unannounced visit. She was livid a out that. Isit too. Unreal)

I apologize for all this about me -- the point, if you have ANY desire to save your marriage, you have to fight for it. The advice you've been given is good. Expose this to other betrayed spouse (wife). Do NOT feel sorry for your wife. She's full of herself right now (and she's putting it on you because she knows she's busted.) The fact that this is long after the email makes me think they've now gone PA. I know that's hard to read but all it takes is time alone and it all starts in the mind. Even if exposing doesn't get her out of the romance fog it will bust up their parade and take the fun out of their party. Abusing you will no longer be an option because you'll be taking back control of your life. This happens when there's an imbalance of power in the relationship. If you haven't finished Shirley Glass' book go back and finish it. Read passages outloud with statistics. (I read a lots of stuff outloud.) 

My guess is her parenting skills are probably pretty sucky right now too (in subtle ways). My husband started snapping at our kids (his world) and became very short with me and critical. Hewas never that way before. (My husband is not that way anymore. We're still not out of the woods but we're tackling this together, as a team.)

Whatever you do--do not pander to her or accommodate her in any way. She cannot see that you rely on her. Can you have your salary now go into your own account? VAR is a good idea (Truth always came out when I'd discover something new.) I don't suppose you can back up her phone? Look at phone history? Surprise her at work? I think you should expose him and go have a little visit with the interloper. For him, it's sex. For her, she "thinks" he's her perfect match. Bleck!

I'll be thinking of you/say a little prayer. 

You're a good man. Focus on those kids however old they are!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Tswco
You reminded me of at least two times when we were with the OM and his W socially, and your right the focus was totally on them with each other, even I was there and so was the OM’s W. I could not believe when it happened and I have pointed this out to her, but she refuses to see it that way.

I made contacts with a couple of different lawyers today, and have begun the process of initial consultation.

She came home form her weekend trip yesterday, and wanted to know why I was responding to all of her text messages, and talking more to her, to which I responded she said we were done, and so am I. 

She explained that she said she was only done with arguing bout this ongoing issue (I do not remember it that way). 

She then went to our bedroom and took down all of the photos of her and I together and wedding related. What is that supposed to mean?

I have not responded, and I don’t plan to. I’m still in 180 mode. I was just curious if this was behavior that resembles what has been seen here before....


----------



## walkonmars

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Tell her to put the photos wher she already put the marriage - in the trash.


----------



## Chaparral

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Is there some reason you haven't contacted his wife and asked what she thinks about her husband bragging about your wife's "twins"? I'll bet he would not have stood for it if you were complimenting his wife's "twins". Your big problem is after all this time you don't stand up for yourself. You know her boss would, that's why she is attracted to him. Basically, you have let her emasculate you over the years.

You need to read Married Man Sex Life now! ( BTW this a realtionship guide, not a sex manual)

Amazon.com: marreid mand sex life primer


----------



## Chaparral

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

As a matter of fact, I would have gone to see him and asked him myself why he's commenting on my wife's tits. And would he like it if everyone at the company, and his wife, knew what kind of fellow he was?


----------



## hrtbkngrl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Zatol
> I have already requested that she keep her relationship with him strictly professional, but she gets very upset at this because how do break off a relationship your best friend....
> I have posed the question to her how would she have felt if I had acted this way with a female employee of mine when I was supervising, and she doesn’t like it when I try to portray the conversation that way. In a recent attempt to talk about this ongoing issue she told me “if it were you, you wouldn’t really know how you would react until it happened”. She frustrates me so much some times; I just do not know how to respond to these things.
> 
> Fixin- she is completely gaslighting you. My husband of 19 years did this to me starting in October until I had proof on Mother's Day of his affair. He had admitted to "talking" w a coworker and promised he would stop. However, he would not give up his phone or email for me to check. I caught him 2 times after that and finally read his email and found out it had been an ongoing PA for at least a year. I waited so long to check the email because I wanted to believe that he was being honest w me and I never thought he would cheat. I was in complete denial. It's really a horrible gut wrenching feeling. I know what you are feeling right now but I do not think you overreacted, in fact, I think you have been too easy. Something drastic has to happen for the EA to stop.
> 
> It is difficult, we have 23 years together, and I still feel love and attraction toward her, but I believe I need to start protecting myself.
> 
> You are right, you need to start protecting yourself. You have come to the right place. I have received a lot of good advice on this forum. I was told about a book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. This is perfect for your situation or anyone going through this. It has really really helped me in dealing with this.
> 
> However its complicated by the fact that our youngest child is beginning their senior in high school, so I don’t want to be selfish...


I feel the same way. I have a Senior and a 10 year old (who worships his dad) I did not want them to find out or disrupt them in anyway. I chose to work on this with my husband, but he had to FINALLY come clean and he did.


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## hrtbkngrl

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Fixin- on my post I accidentally posted in the italic part, I don't know why, but there is more to my response than I have a Senior, etc.


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## happyman64

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Fixin

I understand your plan. Your does not respect you so you are going for S.

Glad you saw some lawyers. You will need them.

Get your finances separated ASAP.

Split them right down the middle.

Once you do that do yourself one small favor.

Wait for their next trip and go see the OM's wife.

Let her know that you are separating and you want to give her a heads up.

You might be surprised by what she knows but at least you gave her the courtesy and respect that your wife has not shown you!!!

Good Luck and throw your wife out of the bedroom.

She can sleep on the couch with the wedding pictures.

Also google NPD. It is a very interesting disorder.

HM64

PS

Your perception is accurate. Your handling of the matter has been very good and you are not crazy so do not let her make you think you are.


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## thesunwillcomeout

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

OH please, taking down the pictures? (Well that showed you! Not). She's ticked you're not playing by her rules. Chin up. Don't let her antics get to you. Do something nice for yourself.

(and apologies for the typos earlier. Typing on a phone w/autocorrect=recipe for some poor writing.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thesunwillcomeout

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Some may say differently but don't return her nastiness with nastiness. Just be neutral.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

She is showing you it OVER !!!
So ask her when she is moving out. 
You don't leave your house, and you NEED to see ALL financial statements as soon as possible.
18 months, with flirting right in your face.
You file the papers and make sure your lawyer request ALL assets be declared. You have been a doormat so long to her she don't care about your feeling.
Well Bro, we care about your feelings !!!
Also, theres another book you NEED to read " JUST LET THEM GO ".
Plus " NO MORE MR. NICE GUY "


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## OldWolf57

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Do you know how much is in checking, savings, or what investments you two have ??

Well when you meet with the lawyer, make sure you tell him she may have moved money after you mentioned separating finances the other day.

She may have pulled most out dude by now, and will give it to him or that CS that she just visited. She can say it was repayment for a loan him or her gave her. 

DON'T believe it. Its marital assets.


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## OldWolf57

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Also, you might not believe this, but there truly is a BS fog.
And dude, you are deep in it.

Know what would help you to bun it away ??? Today pack a lot of your wife stuff up and take it to her boss house while they are at work. If his wife is there just tell her since her husband wants her he can have her'
Then go home lock your doors and watch the fireworks.


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## See_Listen_Love

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Fixin,

On base of your total Beta behaviour I have to warn you that this is not about your wife, it is about *your* behaviour.

If you don't repair yourself like in the mentioned books, and follow the advice of the people here, you *will* keep experiencing these things the rest of your life, independent with whom you are, at home, at work, everywhere!

Now go *do* at least one advice of these posters here. And shut up the sad excusing part of yourself, not because others say so, but as a decision you yourself make *today* because you have come to a new vision. Which will lead to a new future!

Do this for your kids if not for yourself.

Hoping you succeed in this transformation,


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## KathyGriffinFan

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

So no exposure on your part? Ur still not contacting HR? Their relationship is highly inappropriate and because of what they are choosing to do, you have every right to contact HR. Are you not contacting then cuz u know it would slam the door of reconciliation shut? I mean, as far as your WW goes...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

She thinks she can push you around. Engage very minimum with her. The disrespect here is the deal breaker irrespective of any infidelity


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## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



warlock07 said:


> She thinks she can push you around. Engage very minimum with her. The disrespect here is the deal breaker irrespective of any infidelity


She doesn't think she can. She knows she can and that's what feeds this disrespect and disdain she has for him.

I agree with sister_listen. Read up and see what you need to change in yourself.


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## thesunwillcomeout

OldWolf57 said:


> Also, you might not believe this, but there truly is a BS fog.
> And dude, you are deep in it.
> 
> Know what would help you to bun it away ??? Today pack a lot of your wife stuff up and take it to her boss house while they are at work. If his wife is there just tell her since her husband wants her he can have her'
> Then go home lock your doors and watch the fireworks.


LOVE this!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## river rat

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> CG
> Believe me the night I read that e-mail was D-day for me. It was the most painful emotional moment I can remember. She hates it when I bring up that e-mail, but I can not get over it or accept it as a “friendly joke” to this day. In reality, do I really need to get more proof than that, that things are done for us considering how things have played out since then.... In the eye of the beholder, right?
> 
> I guess my original posting on this thread Did I overreact?  I was looking for conformation, that almost anything I do after that was legitimate.


 Fixin, it seems from your post that there are a lot more issues here than just that email. Your move toward separation so quickly, really says that there are other reasons that you are ready to call it quits. In that case, you don't really need affirmation. You are perfectly capable of making your decision, which it seems, you have done. Good luck and Godspeed to you.


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## mule kick

If I were to speculate I would say fixin's wife works for a small company that probably doesn't have a real HR department or everybody knows everybody. I think it's ridiculous of everybody to assume he just doesn't know what he is talking about when he says he can't go that route. 

15 months is a long time to try to work through his problems. I don't know about all of you but from the time I figured out there was a problem to the time I filed for divorce was only four months. In the few months I have been on TAM, I have read a few strikingly similar situations to mine. His wife is an exit affair, not just screwing around. She is giving every indication that she just doesn't want to be in this marriage anymore. It was cheap of her to wait until she had found somebody else and worse to hide this from her husband for so long. It's not easy to deal with. Your ego and your self-image are wrapped up in being in a happy marriage. Fortunately being divorced ain't what it used to be. It's not as fulfilling as the happy marriage we once had... But there is compensation.


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## Gabriel

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Tswco
> You reminded me of at least two times when we were with the OM and his W socially, and your right the focus was totally on them with each other, even I was there and so was the OM’s W. *I could not believe when it happened and I have pointed this out to her, but she refuses to see it that way.*
> 
> I made contacts with a couple of different lawyers today, and have begun the process of initial consultation.
> 
> She came home form her weekend trip yesterday, and wanted to know why I was responding to all of her text messages, *and talking more to her, to which I responded she said we were done, and so am I. *
> She explained that she said she was only done with arguing bout this ongoing issue (I do not remember it that way).
> 
> She then went to our bedroom and took down all of the photos of her and I together and wedding related. What is that supposed to mean?
> 
> I have not responded, and I don’t plan to. I’m still in 180 mode. I was just curious if this was behavior that resembles what has been seen here before....


This is all very confusing. Was OM on the trip with her? I don't get the bolded parts. Your wife has no respect for you. The took down the pictures as a way to pout. You say you're done - so she's like "Fine! And rips pictures down."

Childish, selfish, disrespectful. Just keep going with the lawyers.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Gabriel
The thing I was commenting about not being able to believe it is this. Once on a social outing before I read the now infamous e-mail, and once after reading the e-mail on a weekend trip we spent time with the OM and his W, I witnessed behavior between my W and the OM that was high school-ish at best. By the time of the first social outing, I was already suspicious of the two of them and their constant texting and e-mailing of each other (Blackberry’s), plus increased work travel together, and sudden commuting together, etc. By the time of the weekend trip together I was in full blown horror, because I had seen the e-mail by then, and she was in full blown just friends mode. 

Whenever she is in the same room as him, she is his total focal point, even at the expense of his own W in the same room. She is noticeably pleased by his attention to her. It is as if no one else exists when they are together. However, hey I guess that is how best friends act....

The comment about the weekend trip was referencing a three-day trip she planned and took with our older child this past Labor Day weekend (I was not invited, but was asked the week before if it bothered me, after the plans were already made). She sent me text messages while they were gone, to which I treated with minimum responses or not at all, in the 180 mode. When she got home she questioned me about not responding to her texts while gone, and to my lack of talking to her once she was home. That is when I reminded her that it was her that said that she was done a week earlier when we argued (sort of) about her most recent work trip with him and that part was kept secret from me (she said she knew she would catch crap from me if I knew he was there too).


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## walkonmars

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Wow oh holy J. Do you mean she spent the holiday weekend with her "boss" & you child - and wanted to know IF you were a bit put out? 

MY blood pressure shot up just typing that!


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## TDSC60

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

You need to change your user name - you are not Fixin(g) anything.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Just our child.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

TDSC60
I agree that I have been way to slow and passive on this situation.
However, I now have an appointment with an attorney.
I also plan to test a pair of panties for, let’s say, a suspicious stain. (I know to some this is skivvy)


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## KathyGriffinFan

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



mule kick said:


> If I were to speculate I would say fixin's wife works for a small company that probably doesn't have a real HR department or everybody knows everybody. I think it's ridiculous of everybody to assume he just doesn't know what he is talking about when he says he can't go that route.


I've been on TAM for going on 1.5 years and one constant thing that is repeated on here is the BS not willing to go full distance of exposure, because they are afraid they are slamming the door shut in regards to reconciliation. They're worried that their cheating partner/spouse will be upset and they're not going to want to get back together.

I'm *not* saying that is what the OP is doing, but because he hasn't _exactly_ clarified why (beyond "I just can't do that), people keep recommending it.


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## underwater2010

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

No you did not overreact. Now you just need to follow through. Have divorce papers drawn up and see what she does. I will forewarn you that she might just go through with the divorce. Please be ready for that. Her behavior is beyond inappropriate. I would bet my life that she is having sex with him. An EA with many chances to be together alone.....I am getting bad vibes.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Semen tets came back negative.


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## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



tdwal said:


> That's good isn't it?


Means no Trickle Truth ( chessy I know ) from the past 72 hours or so.


----------



## Chaparral

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Have you read Married Man Sex Life yet? EVERYONE here I know of recommends this. Its a must.


----------



## TDSC60

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



tdwal said:


> That's good isn't it?


It just means that this particular stain was negative.


----------



## AlphaHalf

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



> a three-day trip she planned and took with our older child this past Labor Day weekend (I was not invited, but was asked the week before if it bothered me, after the plans were already made)........that is when I reminded her that it was her that said that she was done a week earlier when we argued (sort of) about her most recent work trip with him and that part was kept secret from me (she said she knew she would catch crap from me if I knew he was there too).


I know you want to be with her and you have alot of history together but you got to let this [email protected]#h go. (Judging from her actions) The signs are right in front of your face. Who the F$%^k goes on vacation with their child, not inviting the husband,to be with their boss????? A cheating conniving scandalous B#$h (Male or Female). Your so worried about her but she doesn't give a dam about what you think. She has a good paying job, a GREAT relationship with her boss. What leverage do you got to have her respect you or even worry about separating. She is brazenly disrespecting you.
Expose this relationship to the company is your only shot but in the end is she really worth it? ( Sorry man this made me really emotional for and struck a nerve with me, so I dont mean be an [email protected]@, but I hope whatever it is you decide to do works out for you)


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## OldWolf57

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Since she is always traveling ou should ask for primary custody.
I also remember she said was this a prelude to one of you moving out. Not you but one of you.
See where her mind is at. She is saying she would move out.
Now what are you going to do about exposing ??
Call OMW and ask if he was home all weekend.
You really seem scared to find out what is really going on.
What are your plans to see the books ??
Can't you ask her to go over everything now, or would that make her made at you ??

Dude, it dont matter who makes the most, its all marital asset. So it gets divided down the middle.
Unless she has moved some.

Do YOU know what your NET WORTH truly is ??

Will you PLZ stop being so darn passive!!!!


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## mule kick

Fixin said:


> Semen tets came back negative.


Vasectomy? Maybe looking for the wrong thing?


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

It doesn't work that way. It's looking for a certain chemical balance.


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## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



TDSC60 said:


> You need to change your user name - you are not Fixin(g) anything.


Oh my gosh. I tried to leave it alone but it's too f0cking funny not to quote.

By the way fixin, No matter what the circumstances turn out to be, it had to feel good AT THAT MOMENT to see those negative results.


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Strange, but I had mixed feelings...


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## Thundarr

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> Strange, but I had mixed feelings...


It would be strange if you didn't have mixed feelings.


----------



## JCD

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



TDSC60 said:


> It just means that this particular stain was negative.


It means she didn't wear those panties AFTER sex. That's it.

Not that sex took place. Not the sex didn't take place. _*Those*_ panties didn't touch semen. Don't make more or less of it than is actually there.


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## JCD

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Let's go over fear.

I can see you being afraid that if you leave, you might not find someone as 'good' as she is. Is she really making you feel good about yourself? Are her bosoms worth a huge part of your self respect?

Maybe you're afraid you might lose the kids. She can't take them totally away from you. And from what it seems, you're the primary caregiver anyway. That is probably part of what she is: too career oriented for kids right now.

Maybe you're afraid she'll reveal some deep dark secret of yours. Can't help you there, but sunlight disinfects a lot. Having whatever hanging over your head isn't good for your soul either. Out her. Now. 

WHEN (PLEASE GOD FILE) you file, name and depose this dipchit. Make him swear under oath that he hasn't had sex with her. Have him name UNDER OATH every trip they had and the sleeping arrangements. Have your attorney take notes and have a PI there as well, identified as such. If he knows you're checking, he'll be less likely to lie.

"Honey, I'm going on an overnight vacation with our kid and with undisclosed others. Do you mind?"

If you said this to your wife, would you have any respect for her if she didn't have divorce papers waiting when you got back? Answer honestly.

The ONLY way the *ONLY* way to get ANY respect from her after that debacle/bris is to mess her world up hard.


----------



## Chaparral

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Have you read MMSL yet?


----------



## Shaggy

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Let me understand something here - She went with your child on a laborday weekend trip with the OM and you weren't invited?


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## Fixin

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

No, OM wasn't on the weekend trip.

What is MMSL?


----------



## PHTlump

*Re: Did I Overreact?*



Fixin said:


> What is MMSL?


Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


----------



## WyshIknew

*Re: Did I Overreact?*

Married Mans Sex Life by Athol Kay.

Brilliant book, real eye opener for me. Even if you don't believe the whole Alpha Beta thing it works. Only been following the MAP for about three weeks to a month and already seen a big difference with wifey.

Might also be worth reading No More Mr Nice Guy, I think the author is Robert Glover.


----------

