# One simple rule for a happy marriage



## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Having read lots of posts on here and in my experience of being married for 15 years, there is one simple rule that everyone should follow to keep a happy marriage:

"Whoever initiates sex, the other person must be receptive"

Obviously there are caveats to that sentence, like I'm not suggesting you have to have sex if you're feeling sick, extremely tired etc. Then a simple explanation of the reason why you don't want to would suffice, with a suggestion of we'll do it in the morning or tomorrow instead etc. "I've got a headache" doesn't suffice!

Simply going from a person who used to have lots of sex to one who doesn't, followed by a partner wondering why, feeling rejected etc is a recipe for disaster.

Agree? Disagree?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Agree? Disagree?


I disagree! Let me back this up by sharing a similar thought in my marriage. I thought that this should work with something as simple as a hug. If one person wants a hug then the other person should accept it. Sounds simple right? Oh... it was not!

So I asked a therapist about this one day and cited wedding vows of, "to have and to hold" thinking that asking for a hug would be perfectly OK. I wanted to know why on earth would it be OK for the other person to refuse a spouse something as simple as a hug. The therapist replied that the idea of required hugs would not solve problems. She told me that it would be better for me to say to my wife, "I am open to giving you a hug, just let me know when you are ready?"

Afterwards when I had a followup discussion with my wife, she was open to giving me a hug. BUT, she felt strongly that I should not feel entitled to one when ever I wanted it.

Keep in mind I was just talking about a simple freaking hug here. Now do I think initiating sex anytime I want should require my wife to accept my advance? Oh hell no!

There are even times I want to masturbate and I end up being told no by myself because I decided I was not in the mood enough to have to have it and just preferred to be lazy. You would think if you tried to initiated self pleasure, that you should accept that for yourself. But NO! I don't know about you, but even with self pleasure, I have to put in the effort seduce myself before I'll eventually give in and go for it.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Agree. Unless your with a super high drive partner that wants sex 3x a day.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I also think that is one of many rules for a happy marriage.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I also think that is one of many rules for a happy marriage.


I have read that there are some marriages where this works. As if access to each other's genitalia is like having communal property within the marriage. I admit that idea seems rather nice. 

However each relationship has different dynamics and the idea of making this a rule could be problematic for some couples.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I also think that is one of many rules for a happy marriage.


FTW

Anyway, my W was not receptive the other night. She was tired. I had no problem if sex did not happen. However, I was able to get the Mrs. in the mood. Then off to the races. My next days note in the old lunch pail read, "Thanks for getting me in the mood when I wasn't. It was fantastic." Yeah for me!


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

I would say that if one of the participants in the relationship is dismissive or indifferent to the other's desire for intimacy, the marriage is likely over except for the paperwork. I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with the way the question was asked but I did vote "yes". It might be a chicken and egg kind of question.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> I would say that if one of the participants in the relationship is dismissive or indifferent to the other's desire for intimacy, the marriage is likely over except for the paperwork. I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with the way the question was asked but I did vote "yes". It might be a chicken and egg kind of question.


I think that when your spouse comes to you about anything, and your dismissive that’s a bad sign in general.


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## wife95 (Jun 19, 2020)

BIL310 said:


> Having read lots of posts on here and in my experience of being married for 15 years, there is one simple rule that everyone should follow to keep a happy marriage:
> 
> "Whoever initiates sex, the other person must be receptive"
> 
> ...


That’s exactly how I feel rn I’m feeling rejected all the time when my husband and I first met we always had sex up until we got pregnant then everything went downhill, no sex at all during my pregnancy and then barely ever afterwards like every 3-5 months maybe and it’s only how he likes it and only for no more than 5 minutes and I feel I’m always begging him not because I’m always aroused but because I feel we’ve drifted away from ea other I’ve spoken to him about this several times and it just doesn’t change we’ve been through a lot too and he’s telling me he’s tired like emotionally tired and I understand but what about me? I feel tired physically and emotionally and I do love him with all I am but I’d not if I can keep doing this it’s been years now of the same tiredness/rejection and I want to feel wanted, loved and instead I keep feeling like our marriage will end either way 😢


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

wife95 said:


> ...it’s been years now of the same tiredness/rejection and I want to feel wanted, loved and instead I keep feeling like our marriage will end either way 😢


Welcome to TAM!

I am fairly certain that even a Catholic priest would agree with you and help you divorce your husband. 

There are those that have sex 2-3 times a week and complain they need more and that is a rather mild problem. If months are going by and nothing happens then that is a serious problem. If your husband is unwilling to go to therapy or make some serious changes, then you need to prepare yourself to leave. You'll find a lot of helpful advice on this forum.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

wife95 said:


> That’s exactly how I feel rn I’m feeling rejected all the time when my husband and I first met we always had sex up until we got pregnant then everything went downhill, no sex at all during my pregnancy and then barely ever afterwards like every 3-5 months maybe and it’s only how he likes it and only for no more than 5 minutes and I feel I’m always begging him not because I’m always aroused but because I feel we’ve drifted away from ea other I’ve spoken to him about this several times and it just doesn’t change we’ve been through a lot too and he’s telling me he’s tired like emotionally tired and I understand but what about me? I feel tired physically and emotionally and I do love him with all I am but I’d not if I can keep doing this it’s been years now of the same tiredness/rejection and I want to feel wanted, loved and instead I keep feeling like our marriage will end either way 😢


A warm welcome to TAM. May I suggest you start a new post, explaining your situation in as much detail as you are comfortable with? We have lots of great people on here, and you will get much more help that way. 

So sorry you are going through this, but very happy you have found us!


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

OP, I tend to agree with you. I do wish it was just this simple though. That said, good sex fixes a lot of things.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

My husband does not want sex very often but i NEVER refused him and i NEVER would. No matter how much he wanted.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Agree? Disagree?


Having also read lots of posts on her and being married for 21+ years so far in the second instance, I don't have one simple rule that everyone should follow to keep a happy marriage.

That said I disagree with "Whoever initiates sex, the other person must be receptive". Since I feel that no one should feel obliged to have sex with someone, even if they are their spouse. Regardless of the reason (don't feel like it, want to read my book etc), whenever they don't want to have sex.

As to encountering a notable lack of sex in a sexual relationship, one great solution for that is to have sex with other people. Of which one way to do that when in a monogamous marriage, is to divorce the withholding spouse as quickly as possible.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I disagree. This is a great solution for the HD partner but it just flips the whole not enough sex script. While I've never been in a relationship where there wasn't enough sex or one partner wanted sex too much (though I might bug my hubby too much he never complains).

Why can't relationships be modeled with love a respect for both parties. Where both try to meet each others needs and at the end of the day be understanding if something does go their way? Is sex this mythical thing that should be raised above all other items in marriage?

So if either partner has a job but it doesn't make enough money should the other partner be able to just tell them to go make more money?
If the woman wants to be spontaneously romance the guy has to drop everything go get flowers, make dinner reservations and write some poetry even if he has a headache which isn't a good excuse?
So you are supposed to watch football with your friends but you wife wants to snuggle on the couch and have you feed her grapes while extolling her virtue. You are cancelling on the friends right?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The crux of the poll is "within reason." That implies to me that the requests can't be far outside the comfort range of the recipient in terms of frequency or activities. So I agree with the idea. However, that does not mean there won't be occasional refusals, even for "poor" reasons. And if the couple is seriously mismatched sexually, they have to choose to live with that in some way or split up (which isn't always easy, especially after sharing life and perhaps children for years).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Agree. Unless your with a super high drive partner that wants sex 3x a day.


I agreed and I get this. I can go 3-5 times most days and my little lady's kitty can't take that much.

She absolutely would if she could however.😉


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> The crux of the poll is "within reason."


Agree. Is it reasonable to expect sex say after she just gets home after pulling a double?

Also, what is receptive? My wife generally won’t say no and make her way to bedroom. That doesn’t mean she’s going to be swinging from the chandelier every time. If, occasionally, the best she do is provide boobs for me to finish myself off on that’s OK.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, I generally agree with the rule, though I think it should be worded a bit differently, because the way it is worded implies that the non-initiator must day yes, and has no choice (or has no bodily autonomy).

The fact of the matter is when you enter into a marriage, you do lose a little bit of that autonomy. When you make decisions, and when you make choices, you now have to factor your new spouse into the mix... not only that but you have to factor your MARRIAGE into the mix.

When you married, you swore [both emotional and physical] fidelity to one another. When your partner initiates sex, he is telling you, "I have a need for physical intimacy and bonding with my partner." Now, you always have the right to refuse; you have bodily autonomy. However, you pledged your body to this man the same as he has pledged his body to you. If you refuse him (without a really good reason) and will not meet his need for physical intimacy and bonding, you're basically saying, I know I made this vow, but I'm only going to keep to that vow when I feel like it, and I don't care what you want or need. By refusing, you are deeply hurting your partner and in doing so, you are damaging the relationship. Not only that, but your partner is now in a position where you won't meet his need, but he can't get that need met anywhere else without breaking his vows. That is incredibly unfair and cruel.

On the other hand, saying yes is so easy, and it's good for your partner, it's good for the marriage, and you'll warm up and get in the mood and will likely enjoy it, too. (Even if the genders are reversed, and she is the initiator and he thinks he might not be able to perform there are so many other things he can do to please his partner which are also physically intimate and bonding.)

Obviously, there are good reasons for saying no. As a couple, you can discuss these in advance and identify what is a qualifying reason... and you can both know NOT to initiate when such reasons are present. You can set and agree to rules and boundaries regarding physical intimacy. Maybe one person really doesn't like sex when they have a cold, but the other person doesn't care... the latter person won't necessarily know that without a conversation, and will be hurt by the former's rejection, when the former is appalled that the latter asked for sex when they could barely breathe due to chest congestion.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> Having read lots of posts on here and in my experience of being married for 15 years, there is one simple rule that everyone should follow to keep a happy marriage:
> 
> "Whoever initiates sex, the other person must be receptive"


I agree that if this is followed by both partners, from a place of excitement and giving, that it will help keep a connected, happy marriage.

I believe that when partners are NOT receptive in this way, it's usually more than simply a sexual issue...I believe it's an issue of caring enough to meet our partner's needs, which, when we expect monogamy, should be taken very, very seriously.

Now, of course, I believe that everyone shouldn't have to be receptive if they don't want to be...but that means they feel as though THEIR needs should come before their partner's needs, and that can become a major problem in the relationship, sexually and non-sexually.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Not only that, but your partner is now in a position where you won't meet his need, but he can't get that need met anywhere else without breaking his vows. That is incredibly unfair and cruel.


^^^^THIS. A lot of people would find themselves forever single if they were honest about their low desire for or avoidance of sex especially if they still demanded phenomenal parenting, a high standard of living and sexual fidelity. But sadly a lot of people are like this.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Why can't relationships be modeled with love a respect for both parties. Where both try to meet each others needs and at the end of the day be understanding if something does go their way? Is sex this mythical thing that should be raised above all other items in marriage?


I think this gets challenging with the following dynamic. It can be hard to love someone when one person does not love themselves. A common example is when one of the two in marriage is struggling with depression.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> Why can't relationships be modeled with love a respect for both parties. Where both try to meet each others needs and at the end of the day be understanding if something does go their way? Is sex this mythical thing that should be raised above all other items in marriage?


I don't think that sex is a mythical thing that is raised above all other items in a marriage.

BUT

-- without sex, marriage is just a really close friendship. So sex is kind of the defining characteristic of a marriage.

-- most men, and some women (myself included), need [regular, enthusiastic] sex to feel loved. This is especially true for people who have physical touch as one of their primary love languages. You take that away, all that other "great stuff" in a marriage doesn't mean squat. I can get all that great stuff from my best friend, AND he will encourage me to go date and have sex.

-- lack of sex is usually an indicator/sympton of other problems in the marriage. So... all that other "great stuff" probably isn't actually all that great.



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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> I don't think that sex is a mythical thing that is raised above all other items in a marriage.
> 
> BUT
> 
> ...


I guess I'm weird then because if me and my husband never had sex again, I'd still love him and would still think we have a good marriage. And I mean that if he stopped initiating or responding to my initiation. We have a great sex life now but we have so much more that no other friendship has ever given me. I guess that's why he's my best friend.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> I guess I'm weird then because if me and my husband never had sex again, I'd still love him and would still think we have a good marriage. And I mean that if he stopped initiating or responding to my initiation. We have a great sex life now but we have so much more that no other friendship has ever given me. I guess that's why he's my best friend.


Just curious.... have you ever experienced a prolonged absence of sex in your marriage? Because I used to think the same way that you do... and then my husband stopped initiating and wouldn't respond when I initiated. It literally destroyed me and destroyed our marriage.

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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> I guess I'm weird then because if me and my husband never had sex again, I'd still love him and would still think we have a good marriage. And I mean that if he stopped initiating or responding to my initiation. We have a great sex life now but we have so much more that no other friendship has ever given me. I guess that's why he's my best friend.


I think the same (that we'd love each other and have a good marriage, etc.), but with one major exception: that being if one of us is unable to have sex or only very rarely, and the other still has the desire to have sex, we can outsource sex *if* we want to stay together. We've previously found that a limited open/poly relationship works for us, so this wouldn't be a difficult choice.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> I guess I'm weird then because if me and my husband never had sex again, I'd still love him and would still think we have a good marriage. And I mean that if he stopped initiating or responding to my initiation. We have a great sex life now but we have so much more that no other friendship has ever given me. I guess that's why he's my best friend.


Unless you've been rejected by your husband for 6+ months (not for a medical reason, just because he doesn't feel like it), I think you are underestimating the feelings of resentment and being unwanted and the toll they would take on you. Not to mention how much you would miss the physical feelings of being touched as a sexual person, and the exceptional feeling that orgasms _WITH a partner_ give you.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Just curious.... have you ever experienced a prolonged absence of sex in your marriage? Because I used to think the same way that you do... and then my husband stopped initiating and wouldn't respond when I initiated. It literally destroyed me and destroyed our marriage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


I have not experienced a prolonged absence of sex in my marriage other than after our child was born. So I will probably never know. 


LisaDiane said:


> Unless you've been rejected by your husband for 6+ months (not for a medical reason, just because he doesn't feel like it), I think you are underestimating the feelings of resentment and being unwanted and the toll they would take on you. Not to mention how much you would miss the physical feelings of being touched as a sexual person, and the exceptional feeling that orgasms _WITH a partner_ give you.


I know what an orgasm with a partner gives me and frankly I don't really orgasm without a partner, I don't masturbate. However, I am a responsive desire person. If I haven't had sex is 3 days I don't usually think about it or miss it. While I enjoy it when it is going on, i could go without. As long as he was still him and we are talking sex and not other marital issues I'd be good.

I know I won't have to deal with this issue so I'll never know if I am right.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> I have not experienced a prolonged absence of sex in my marriage other than after our child was born. So I will probably never know.
> 
> I know what an orgasm with a partner gives me and frankly I don't really orgasm without a partner, I don't masturbate. However, I am a responsive desire person. If I haven't had sex is 3 days I don't usually think about it or miss it. While I enjoy it when it is going on, i could go without. As long as he was still him and we are talking sex and not other marital issues I'd be good.
> 
> I know I won't have to deal with this issue so I'll never know if I am right.


Well, there's a huge difference between not missing sex after 3 days without it or 180 days without it...but hopefully, like you said, you won't ever have to find out if you are right. That's good for you...you picked a mutual-desire spouse!!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

The main issue for me is that we only have sex when I initiate it and my wife happens to be in the mood (which is 95% of the time only after a few drinks).

We can go from doing it once of a night followed by the next morning to a 16 day break which were on now.

My wife’s on a health kick so we haven’t had a few drinks together which is then why I usually initiate. I got fed up of being rejected whilst we were sober.

It doesn’t help that we’ve got 9 and 11 year old more or less still awake when we go to bed but there’s mornings etc when they’re still asleep. Plus they stayed in my parents house last week for the first time in 3 months and my wife again kept her distance.

My wife doesn’t show any interest. We literally get in bed of a night, she turns one way and I turn another. I’ve brought it up before and she’s replied with it’s always about you isn’t it to saying things like maybe she needs to go the doctors. Go figure.

I find that the problem for me is that the longer the days go on without sex/affection the weirder it is to try and start. It’s only ever me that asks/gives her a kiss outside the bedroom

I knew as soon as she told me about her health kick what was going to happen as the alcohol was off the table.

I don’t want to bring the subject up again, I’m just going to work on becoming a better person myself - lose weight, interact with kids more and work hard. I can only change myself.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> FTW
> 
> Anyway, my W was not receptive the other night. She was tired. I had no problem if sex did not happen. However, I was able to get the Mrs. in the mood. Then off to the races. My next days note in the old lunch pail read, "Thanks for getting me in the mood when I wasn't. It was fantastic." Yeah for me!


I would think I’d died and gone to heaven if I ever got that note from my wife!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> When you married, you swore [both emotional and physical] fidelity to one another. When your partner initiates sex, he is telling you, "I have a need for physical intimacy and bonding with my partner." Now, you always have the right to refuse; you have bodily autonomy. However, you pledged your body to this man the same as he has pledged his body to you. If you refuse him (without a really good reason) and will not meet his need for physical intimacy and bonding, you're basically saying, I know I made this vow, but I'm only going to keep to that vow when I feel like it, and I don't care what you want or need. By refusing, you are deeply hurting your partner and in doing so, you are damaging the relationship. Not only that, but your partner is now in a position where you won't meet his need, but he can't get that need met anywhere else without breaking his vows. That is incredibly unfair and cruel.


I think I'm going to say these words to my Wife if the subject is brought up again.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I think you have more issues than just her forgetting her vows. I'm sorry I haven't reread your posts but are there other issues?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yes I remember now. You planned an affair and got caught. There are some much bigger issues. 

This is exactly why I vote no. Because It only addresses one problem in the marriage and that doesn't build a healthy marriage.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> My wife’s on a health kick so we haven’t had a few drinks together which is then why I usually initiate. I got fed up of being rejected whilst we were sober.


THAT is something that needs work. In my opinion I think some wive reject a husband's advance as a sh*t test for the purpose of trying to determine, "does he really love me or does he just want to use me for sex?" If she rejects you and you immediately withdraw all nonsexual intimacy and get upset, she likely just validated her self-fulfilling prophecy of things turning to sh*t.

Next time your wife rejects your advances, crank up the nonsexual intimacy of hugging and back rubs while telling her that she is the one that will not be allowed to have sex with you because you agree with her notion that now is not a good time. If she puts her hands on your penis to see if you are being truthful, push them away! Get upset about it and tell her that just because you have an erection does not mean that her touching it will feel good and then insist you want a back rub.

At some point you will realize that your wife is the one that can't handle rejection and you will discover that she can't take no for an answer. Only do this if you are OK with her loosing her sh*t and perhaps getting aggressive.

Badsanta


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes I remember now. You planned an affair and got caught. There are some much bigger issues.
> 
> This is exactly why I vote no. Because It only addresses one problem in the marriage and that doesn't build a healthy marriage.


Ouch. This would certainly explain why she is refusing sex.

@BIL310 If the above is true, which I assume that it is and you posted in another thread, then you do not get to use my words in conversation with your wife. You already broke your vows, even in PLANNING an affair, even if it didn't happen, and that means the RULES CHANGE. You need to fix all of this first, regain her trust, before she will willingly take you to bed again.

I'm more than a bit pissed that you didn't give all the info up front, it makes me feel manipulated and lied to.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well actually this is why I voted no to begin with. Most marriages have more than one issue. So saying we have to have sex just because the other feels like it ignores all the reasons why some don't want to have sex. It also was presented as generic question and then switched to a personal situation.

Everything is never just one issue in my opinion. I don't see too many posters that truly have one issue.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> I would think I’d died and gone to heaven if I ever got that note from my wife!


Truth be told, I get one every day in my lunch. I keep them. One day I will make a huge poster board(s) of the notes.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well actually this is why I voted no to begin with. Most marriages have more than one issue. So saying we have to have sex just because the other feels like it ignores all the reasons why some don't want to have sex. It also was presented as generic question and then switched to a personal situation.
> 
> Everything is never just one issue in my opinion. I don't see too many posters that truly have one issue.


That is very true, and many try to downplay their issues and argue that that issue shouldn't matter or is irrelevant. 

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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

FeministInPink said:


> Ouch. This would certainly explain why she is refusing sex.
> 
> @BIL310 If the above is true, which I assume that it is and you posted in another thread, then you do not get to use my words in conversation with your wife. You already broke your vows, even in PLANNING an affair, even if it didn't happen, and that means the RULES CHANGE. You need to fix all of this first, regain her trust, before she will willingly take you to bed again.
> 
> I'm more than a bit pissed that you didn't give all the info up front, it makes me feel manipulated and lied to.


DOUBLE OUCH and totally agree with @FeministInPink


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Ouch. This would certainly explain why she is refusing sex.
> 
> @BIL310 If the above is true, which I assume that it is and you posted in another thread, then you do not get to use my words in conversation with your wife. You already broke your vows, even in PLANNING an affair, even if it didn't happen, and that means the RULES CHANGE. You need to fix all of this first, regain her trust, before she will willingly take you to bed again.
> 
> I'm more than a bit pissed that you didn't give all the info up front, it makes me feel manipulated and lied to.


The problem was there before I did what I did hence why it happened. I have held numerous discussions with her before the “affair” but that didn’t resolve anything.

Of course I shouldn’t haven’t done what I did but and I’ll always regret it but I also what it feels like spending hours each day worrying why your wife isn’t as receptive as she was used to be. And the thought of leaving your kids with single parents wasn’t something I was prepared to do.

We are back together now and things were really good for the first few months but slowly but surely they’re going back to like they were a couple of years ago.

It doesn’t mean the initial question is invalid. And your reply in my opinion is spot on. I was left with two choices, cheat or separate at the time and I chose the wrong one. It was selfish what I did, but it was also unselfish because I don’t and still don’t want to divorce my wife over this and have to not see the kids every day.

i want to work on it. If this issue was happening for the first time after what I did I’d say that was the reason why. It’s not, it’s been a long standing issue.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well actually this is why I voted no to begin with. Most marriages have more than one issue. So saying we have to have sex just because the other feels like it ignores all the reasons why some don't want to have sex. It also was presented as generic question and then switched to a personal situation.
> 
> Everything is never just one issue in my opinion. I don't see too many posters that truly have one issue.


Ok so if I bring the question up about improving affection/intimacy and she replies, the kids are always awake till late, I’ve been busy in work, I’ve just been tired etc. You’re suggesting I take that at face value or tell her they’re just excuses.

Or maybe just try this It’s time to be honest with yourself and me, why is our sex life dependant on me initiating after a drink, and you responding when in the mood?

Knowing my wife I’ll probably get a load of responses about that I did, which I’d accept like I said if it’s only been since that.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

BIL310. Listen you purposefully went out of your way to try an have sex with a woman not your wife because she was beautiful, I mean a 10. You lied to the woman and betrayed your wife. You also have helmed a business that failed. Your wive won't have sex with you unless she is relaxed by alcohol. These are all issues and symptoms of a marriage that needs help. After your affair, all you did was rug sweep. I'm back now and it's ok. I guarantee it isn't ok.

Your marriage needs help. I'm sure the issues aren't one sided. Have you two tried counseling? Have you two tried any of the marriage building books? Have you done anything to ameliorate for your affair like read and follow surviving an affair? Divorce Busters? 5 love languages?

If you wife were here what would she say the issues are? Other than sex what are your issues?

Edited to add: ; and do you really think all your marriage needs is for your wife to accept every advance you have?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Your wive won't have sex with you unless she is relaxed by alcohol. These are all issues and symptoms of a marriage that needs help. After your affair, all you did was rug sweep. I'm back now and it's ok. I guarantee it isn't ok.


I wonder of the poll should be changed?



> When a cheater initiates sex, the faithful spouse must be receptive (within reason)


I think that would change a few responses and get some more valuable feedback. Because the question here really seems to be more about what it takes to restore trust and closeness. Would establishing the all-you-can-eat proverbial sexual buffet in that type of marriage help rebuild things? Perhaps it actually might help. But I think people need to look at it from that angle before offering advice.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> Ok so if I bring the question up about improving affection/intimacy and she replies, the kids are always awake till late, I’ve been busy in work, I’ve just been tired etc. You’re suggesting I take that at face value or tell her they’re just excuses.
> 
> Or maybe just try this It’s time to be honest with yourself and me, why is our sex life dependant on me initiating after a drink, and you responding when in the mood?
> 
> Knowing my wife I’ll probably get a load of responses about that I did, which I’d accept like I said if it’s only been since that.


I guess I just don't understand willingly returning to a spouse who wouldn't meet my needs...if what they other posters have said is true, and you had left because you weren't getting your sexual needs met with her, so you almost cheated, WHY did you go back...??


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

He never left. He had an affair with a woman got caught. Rug swept. He did cheat. He texted for a while and then met the woman in a hotel room. His wife caught them naked.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> He never left. He had an affair with a woman got caught. Rug swept. He did cheat. He texted for a while and then met the woman in a hotel room. His wife caught them naked.


FYI i did leave. For 3 months.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I guess I just don't understand willingly returning to a spouse who wouldn't meet my needs...if what they other posters have said is true, and you had left because you weren't getting your sexual needs met with her, so you almost cheated, WHY did you go back...??


To be honest I think the only reason my Wife was willing to try again was because she knows full well she's made zero effort in affection and intimacy department for years. I was under the impression therefore things would improve, and they did. Until the last couple of months.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> BIL310. Listen you purposefully went out of your way to try an have sex with a woman not your wife because she was beautiful, I mean a 10. You lied to the woman and betrayed your wife. You also have helmed a business that failed. Your wive won't have sex with you unless she is relaxed by alcohol. These are all issues and symptoms of a marriage that needs help. After your affair, all you did was rug sweep. I'm back now and it's ok. I guarantee it isn't ok.
> 
> Your marriage needs help. I'm sure the issues aren't one sided. Have you two tried counseling? Have you two tried any of the marriage building books? Have you done anything to ameliorate for your affair like read and follow surviving an affair? Divorce Busters? 5 love languages?
> 
> ...


THIS, ALL OF THIS^^^^^^

@BIL310 The solution to your marital problems isn't getting your wife to have sex with you more often. You and she need to go see a therapist and fix the problems that existed BEFORE you decided to step outside of your marriage. And then you have to fix all the damage you did by betraying her and earn back her trust. Only after you have accomplished these two things can you even think about bringing up increasing the frequency of sex.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

badsanta said:


> I wonder of the poll should be changed?
> 
> 
> 
> I think that would change a few responses and get some more valuable feedback. Because the question here really seems to be more about what it takes to restore trust and closeness. Would establishing the all-you-can-eat proverbial sexual buffet in that type of marriage help rebuild things? Perhaps it actually might help. But I think people need to look at it from that angle before offering advice.


The poll doesn't need changing at all. It's a very valid question regardless of the circumstances. At the end of the day if you make zero effort with your husband and I'm not just talking sex here, i'm talking about affection, asking me how my day went - anything. Then there's a chance someone else will come along and that's what happened. Simple as that. It was 17 months ago now.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> THIS, ALL OF THIS^^^^^^
> 
> @BIL310 The solution to your marital problems isn't getting your wife to have sex with you more often. You and she need to go see a therapist and fix the problems that existed BEFORE you decided to step outside of your marriage. And then you have to fix all the damage you did by betraying her and earn back her trust. Only after you have accomplished these two things can you even think about bringing up increasing the frequency of sex.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


There was no problems on my side before it happened. Other than lack of affection. What a lot of people on these forums seem to forget is that your wife/husband isn't your room mate. She's you're partner and that comes with affection and sex, if she's got an issue with intimacy or affection she should seek the answers why and spit the truth out. I'm not the one who changed - pre affair.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> To be honest I think the only reason my Wife was willing to try again was because she knows full well she's made zero effort in affection and intimacy department for years. I was under the impression therefore things would improve, and they did. Until the last couple of months.


Yes I think the term there is hysterical bonding. THe betrayed spouse will increase frequency in an attempt to bond with the wayward. It usually doesn't last and eventually the resentment and hurt set in. 

You didn't answer any of the questions about did you two actually work on your marriage after you blew it up?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

BIL310 said:


> There was no problems on my side before it happened. Other than lack of affection. What a lot of people on these forums seem to forget is that your wife/husband isn't your room mate. She's you're partner and that comes with affection and sex, if she's got an issue with intimacy or affection she should seek the answers why and spit the truth out. I'm not the one who changed - pre affair.


That's what you think. SMH.

If the sex stops, it's never about the sex. It's a symptom of another problem. If her needs were being met in the marriage, you would be getting sex. So there's a problem somewhere, you just can't see it, you're in denial, or you think that your needs are the only thing that matters in the marriage.

If she stopped having sex with you, there's a REASON.

ETA: Men frequently say, "I'm not the one who changed, she did!" And most of the time, that's a load of horse crap.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes I think the term there is hysterical bonding. THe betrayed spouse will increase frequency in an attempt to bond with the wayward. It usually doesn't last and eventually the resentment and hurt set in.
> 
> You didn't answer any of the questions about did you two actually work on your marriage after you blew it up?


Hysterical bonding generally doesn't usually require alcohol.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> He never left. He had an affair with a woman got caught. Rug swept. He did cheat. He texted for a while and then met the woman in a hotel room. His wife caught them naked.


Ah...YIKES...what an AWFUL situation all around...!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> To be honest I think the only reason my Wife was willing to try again was because she knows full well she's made zero effort in affection and intimacy department for years. I was under the impression therefore things would improve, and they did. Until the last couple of months.


Yeah, this almost NEVER works...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FeministInPink said:


> That's what you think. SMH.
> 
> If the sex stops, it's never about the sex. It's a symptom of another problem. If her needs were being met in the marriage, you would be getting sex. So there's a problem somewhere, you just can't see it, you're in denial, or you think that your needs are the only thing that matters in the marriage.
> 
> ...


The sad thing is, it's not only men who go through this, AND I think his wife admitted to being LD when they were dating, but he married her anyway...I THINK...is that correct @BIL310...?

Sometimes people just stop having sex because they become secure in the relationship and don't feel the need or desire for sex as much (or anymore)...those people will rarely change into sexually interested partners...sadly for their marriages.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> The sad thing is, it's not only men who go through this, AND I think his wife admitted to being LD when they were dating, but he married her anyway...I THINK...is that correct @BIL310...?
> 
> Sometimes people just stop having sex because they become secure in the relationship and don't feel the need or desire for sex as much (or anymore)...those people will rarely change into sexually interested partners...sadly for their marriages.


No my wife didn’t have a low sex drive when we first met. However we’ve been together since 1998. Slowly over time her interest has twindled.

She used to initiate aswell.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> That's what you think. SMH.
> 
> If the sex stops, it's never about the sex. It's a symptom of another problem. If her needs were being met in the marriage, you would be getting sex. So there's a problem somewhere, you just can't see it, you're in denial, or you think that your needs are the only thing that matters in the marriage.
> 
> ...


In the past I’ve heard reasons such as she’s tired with the kids, her job is draining, she’s put weight on and hates her stretch marks, she thinks she should see a doctor.

Like I said I’m a normal heterosexual man, if I’m having regular sex with my wife I’m happy. I know for fact I haven’t changed. Well beforehand I hadn’t anyway.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

HAVE you and your wife done anything since these problems started to fix them?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> In the past I’ve heard reasons such as she’s tired with the kids, her job is draining, she’s put weight on and hates her stretch marks, she thinks she should see a doctor.
> 
> Like I said I’m a normal heterosexual man, if I’m having regular sex with my wife I’m happy. I know for fact I haven’t changed. Well beforehand I hadn’t anyway.


I agree with what your point is and I understand what you are saying, but you would have done much better for yourself if you made it VERY clear to her that you were going to have sex, and you would let her choose if it would be with HER or someone else...going behind her back is where you went wrong...and I don't mean "wrong" as in Morally Wrong...I mean it as in, WRONG for getting what you wanted out of your marriage/life.

IF you want to stay married, you MUST explain clearly what you need and expect, and what will happen if you don't get that...and then work with your wife from there about what to do, including a marriage counselor if necessary.

THAT is your ONLY chance for success with getting your sexual needs met in your marriage.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I agree with what your point is and I understand what you are saying, but you would have done much better for yourself if you made it VERY clear to her that you were going to have sex, and you would let her choose if it would be with HER or someone else...going behind her back is where you went wrong...and I don't mean "wrong" as in Morally Wrong...I mean it as in, WRONG for getting what you wanted out of your marriage/life.
> 
> IF you want to stay married, you MUST explain clearly what you need and expect, and what will happen if you don't get that...and then work with your wife from there about what to do, including a marriage counselor if necessary.
> 
> THAT is your ONLY chance for success with getting your sexual needs met in your marriage.


Yes i completely agree. In our conversations before I did what i did, i told her that one day I'm worried that the way i'm feeling someone is going to come along and turn my head. Which is exactly what happened.

And it's not just about sex either, it's just general affection. We go to bed at the same time and just turn over and face the opposite way from each other. That's why I used to bring the situation up. I even started going to bed a later time because I was fed up of feeling like I did.

Last week when we got kids minded for first time in 3 months, I suggested maybe going for a walk, getting a bottle of wine, just something different whilst we had a break. Instead her mum called for 45 mins, then she wanted to watch a series on netflix which we watch every night even when kids are in the house. We then both went to bed at the same time, she turned on her front in bed which basically means don't come near me, I turned over and went to sleep.

Over the last week I given her a kiss a few times and last night i learned over in bed to just hug her and she actually lifted both her arms above her head so that my head was now resting against the outside of her arm. I stayed there for a couple of seconds then retreated back to my side feeling embarrassed. 

Bringing it up doesn't work. Marriage counselling I may suggest.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> No my wife didn’t have a low sex drive when we first met. However we’ve been together since 1998. Slowly over time her interest has twindled.
> 
> She used to initiate aswell.


I would argue that her desire or interest for sex has not changed. But yet her reasons and meaning of sex has changed.

A psychology book I read talked about the notion of what makes humans different from all other sexual creatures on the planet. The answer is that humans give meaning to sex. What did sex mean to your wife when you met back in 1998 and what does it mean now in 2020? Probably a completely different answer while perhaps for you it has not changed much (as you say).

Regards,
Badsanta


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> Yes i completely agree. In our conversations before I did what i did, i told her that one day I'm worried that the way i'm feeling someone is going to come along and turn my head. Which is exactly what happened.
> 
> And it's not just about sex either, it's just general affection. We go to bed at the same time and just turn over and face the opposite way from each other. That's why I used to bring the situation up. I even started going to bed a later time because I was fed up of feeling like I did.
> 
> ...


Being treated like this would break my heart, and I couldn't tolerate it...what do you love about her...? What does she love about you...??
You are not with someone who is meeting your needs, and it sounds like she only cares about her needs...I'm not sure how you build a happy marriage with a partner like that...NOT that she is wrong for herself, but she is definitely wrong for you, and doesn't seem to notice or care. If this is the Real Her, you need to decide if you can live with someone who acts like she is acting, for the rest of your life...


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Holy crap, I just had a flashback. @*BIL310 *you have my sympathies. Date nights and alone time defined by or ending with being ignored and snores suck a lot.

It sounds like you are on the road towards "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You".


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> Being treated like this would break my heart, and I couldn't tolerate it...what do you love about her...? What does she love about you...??
> You are not with someone who is meeting your needs, and it sounds like she only cares about her needs...I'm not sure how you build a happy marriage with a partner like that...NOT that she is wrong for herself, but she is definitely wrong for you, and doesn't seem to notice or care. If this is the Real Her, you need to decide if you can live with someone who acts like she is acting, for the rest of your life...


Good question honestly I just wish things were the way they used to be. I’ve been grilled on here and rightly so after what I did, but all I wanted was a fulfilling sex life with me wife. There was no way I could put my kids through a divorce because I needed more sex. It felt selfish.

What happened after that was even worse but the reason why we’re back together from my point of view is because even though she is highly strung and difficult to live I believe that’s more from her job and her parents issues when she was younger. I think she’s someone who wants looking after but has abarrier up.

I’ve told her this so it’s not a surprise that even after 20 years I still don’t know whether to hug her, kiss her or keep my distance. Over the last 5 years she’s a very highly strung women and I don’t know whether to do right or wrong.

What you said is correct though my needs aren’t getting met but I’ll never forget the day we told our kids we were living apart, it broke my heart even though I ultimately caused it. I’d rather die then put them through that again.

Shes talking about booking holidays and stuff in August as if everything is fine. It’s just like me, myself and Irene. She asked me to go for a walk with her earlier which I did but then come bed time she’ll just ignore me.

it’s coming up to day 18 now without sex but more importantly any affection from her. She’s due her period anytime now so it’s going to be once a month. It’s not that bad considering some people’s post on here but nowhere near what I need.

my friend just text me and said he’s booked a hotel next week with his wife who’s my wife’s best friend so I booked one then told my wife, her response was I don’t think I can get my hair done before that then she said I wish yous booked it for week after. I rest my case.


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

I read this with sadness. I never denied my husband of sex, unless I had a migraine headache and that hardly ever happened. We even had sex during my period because he wanted to and yes it can be great during that time. Sometimes if he had drank to much and this even happened on our Anniversary and I would of course be understanding, but disappointed and wait till the next night.

I'm saying all this because even on our 25th. wedding anniversary on a beautiful island, he had drank to much and fell asleep during sex. I was so upset that night. I loved him as much 25 yrs. of marriage as when I married him. Point of all of this and always giving in to never denying him sex, only find out after 26 yrs. of marriage he had been having a 3 or 4 yr. affair with some tramp at work. I can't tell you the pain I had when I found out that he had done that to me when he was 39 yrs. old. So, sometimes always giving into sex or making love as I called it, doesn't mean it's going to keep your marriage together.

I regret so much and if I had known the whole truth when I found out, I should have divorced him, but I didn't. He lied and said, "It was only for a couple lunches." I was in so much pain I couldn't even function, but I didn't and I had always say that I would divorce him in a minute if he ever did that to me. But I had total faith in him, but I was so wrong. We are still together for 30 more years and I'm 76. My health is not good either, but I so regret not divorcing him now. There is nothing left, no love, at least for me and it's just 2 people living in the same house. So, I'm living proof that having sex whenever your spouse wants it, doesn't mean that it's going to save a marriage. If you both love each other and have to say no once in a while it shouldn't tear up a marriage.
Granny7


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Granny7 said:


> I read this with sadness. I never denied my husband of sex, unless I had a migraine headache and that hardly ever happened. We even had sex during my period because he wanted to and yes it can be great during that time. Sometimes if he had drank to much and this even happened on our Anniversary and I would of course be understanding, but disappointed and wait till the next night.
> 
> I'm saying all this because even on our 25th. wedding anniversary on a beautiful island, he had drank to much and fell asleep during sex. I was so upset that night. I loved him as much 25 yrs. of marriage as when I married him. Point of all of this and always giving in to never denying him sex, only find out after 26 yrs. of marriage he had been having a 3 or 4 yr. affair with some tramp at work. I can't tell you the pain I had when I found out that he had done that to me when he was 39 yrs. old. So, sometimes always giving into sex or making love as I called it, doesn't mean it's going to keep your marriage together.
> 
> ...


I think it’s the fear of being alone that keeps us in crappy relationships. Or the lie that we tell our selfs that he didn’t mean it, or things will get better. It’s a tough situation all around. 
I really appreciate you sharing your story and insight.


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## Camper292000 (Nov 7, 2015)

BIL310 said:


> The main issue for me is that we only have sex when I initiate it and my wife happens to be in the mood (which is 95% of the time only after a few drinks).
> 
> We can go from doing it once of a night followed by the next morning to a 16 day break which were on now.
> 
> ...


Ouch. I hear you man. Sounds like a DA like mine was.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

We had a good chat this weekend, she told me she wasn't happy with something I'd said to her in front of her mum a few weeks ago so she withdrew from me. Basically we ended up having an argument a few weeks ago because I asked my son to get my phone charger and he said No. Then i told him what I thought of him, and my wife disagreed with me in front of him.

During our chat I told her that i felt my needs weren't getting met but to be honest it was at like 1am after we'd got back from a friends 40th party.

We've had a good weekend, together. Been for walks etc, and then yesterday we were quite affectionate. And she was even reciprocating. It's the time of the month for her at the moment and I thought it had finished until we we're going to bed last night until I heard the sound of the sanitary towel being opened in the bathroom. She got in bed and leaned over and put her head on my chest to cuddle.

I said to her when it's your time of the month, it's not mine you know. She replied, yes I'm fully aware of that but I have to be drunk to do that (meaning to give me a BJ). I said you've got two hands also to which she replied so have you.

And that was the end of that.

I should have replied it's good for you that I don't feel the same about me giving oral sex to you.

Every time we have sex i always give my wife oral sex if she hasn't already came. Different rules though for her by the looks of things.

At least we took a step in the right direction regarding being affectionate.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> We had a good chat this weekend, she told me she wasn't happy with something I'd said to her in front of her mum a few weeks ago so she withdrew from me. Basically we ended up having an argument a few weeks ago because I asked my son to get my phone charger and he said No. Then i told him what I thought of him, and my wife disagreed with me in front of him.
> 
> During our chat I told her that i felt my needs weren't getting met but to be honest it was at like 1am after we'd got back from a friends 40th party.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you see this in a positive way, but if it were me, all I would see is that she got exactly what she wanted AGAIN -- YOU met her changing needs as they came up (talking, closeness, affection, NO SEX)...and SHE didn't have any sense of empathy or care to meet YOUR needs, which are always the same...even after you told her you were frustrated that your needs weren't being met.

To me, NOTHING has changed at all...and that's sad because, as your spouse, you are supposed to be able to TRUST her that when you tell her something isn't working for you, or that something is hurting you, SHE WILL TRY TO HELP YOU CHANGE IT - that's the idea behind marriage. But you cannot trust her to care about you or your needs. And you aren't "allowed" to have those needs met anywhere else.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I'm glad you see this in a positive way, but if it were me, all I would see is that she got exactly what she wanted AGAIN -- YOU met her changing needs as they came up (talking, closeness, affection, NO SEX)...and SHE didn't have any sense of empathy or care to meet YOUR needs, which are always the same...even after you told her you were frustrated that your needs weren't being met.
> 
> To me, NOTHING has changed at all...and that's sad because, as your spouse, you are supposed to be able to TRUST her that when you tell her something isn't working for you, or that something is hurting you, SHE WILL TRY TO HELP YOU CHANGE IT - that's the idea behind marriage. But you cannot trust her to care about you or your needs. And you aren't "allowed" to have those needs met anywhere else.


Yes you are absolutely right (again!).

For as long as I can remember now everything has always been on her terms. We have sex when I initiate and she’s in the mood.

As you said my needs don’t matter. And as part of a marriage that’s not how things should be.

I’m not expecting things to change overnight but now you’ve given me this new view of the relationship dynamics I’ll work on changing it. I suppose at some point it’s going to be an ultimatum if things continue the same.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Question. If I bring it up again about my needs not getting met and my wife turns around and says well my needs aren’t getting met you aren’t earning enough money how do you think I should respond?

I do need to earn more money and lockdown has unfortunately hampered my company. Hopefully it’s only short term though.

The reason I ask is because that’s the only need I believe I’m not meeting for our family. She might say otherwise but she didn’t the other night.

Personally if she did say something about money not meeting her needs I’d feel like that shouldn’t really make her make more of an effort to look after my needs but I know money would make her feel more secure.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

BIL310 said:


> Personally if she did say something about money not meeting her needs I’d feel like that shouldn’t really make her make more of an effort to look after my needs but I know money would make her feel more secure.


If she's concerned about money, tell her to get a job. You're doing the best you can under the circumstances, so perhaps she needs to make some more, or more money.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> I said to her when it's your time of the month, it's not mine you know. She replied, yes I'm fully aware of that but I have to be drunk to do that (meaning to give me a BJ). I said you've got two hands also to which she replied so have you.
> 
> And that was the end of that.


OMG you wife asked you to get her drink because she wanted to get drunk and give you a BJ, and you insisted that she would need to fix her own drink with her own two hands. Wow! I guess that was the end of that!

I am messing with you, but it totally reads that way if you have a drink first!

Cheers,
Badsanta


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

badsanta said:


> OMG you wife asked you to get her drink because she wanted to get drunk and give you a BJ, and you insisted that she would need to fix her own drink with her own two hands. Wow! I guess that was the end of that!
> 
> I am messing with you, but it totally reads that way if you have a drink first!
> 
> ...


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> If she's concerned about money, tell her to get a job. You're doing the best you can under the circumstances, so perhaps she needs to make some more, or more money.


She has a very good job and has kept things going during lockdown thankfully enough. I’m just wondering if she’ll use that against me if i mention when we’re both sober that my needs aren’t getting met and what my reaction should be to that.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> She has a very good job and has kept things going during lockdown thankfully enough. I’m just wondering if she’ll use that against me if i mention when we’re both sober that my needs aren’t getting met and what my reaction should be to that.


This is a valid question, because this IS a tactic that partners who feel attacked will use!
If she brings that up, it's important that you NOT switch into "defensive mode", because that will take the focus off what you are discussing, which is YOUR needs...you could simply say, "If you have any complaints, you are welcome to bring them up after we are finished talking about my needs", and then bring it back to what YOU were saying with, "Now what is your response to what I just asked you?"...or something like that.

How do you think that would go with her...?


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> This is a valid question, because this IS a tactic that partners who feel attacked will use!
> If she brings that up, it's important that you NOT switch into "defensive mode", because that will take the focus off what you are discussing, which is YOUR needs...you could simply say, "If you have any complaints, you are welcome to bring them up after we are finished talking about my needs", and then bring it back to what YOU were saying with, "Now what is your response to what I just asked you?"...or something like that.
> 
> How do you think that would go with her...?


If the conversation is done sober, I think she will get defensive, angry and mention the "affair" or the money situation. However this was going on well before I did what I did (it actually was the reason why I did what i did, and even when I was earning the same money as her so that would be just an excuse).

Plus it doesn't really make any sense to me to have a good night together, going for walks, talking and showing affection and getting in bed and in the back of her mind she knows that I'm in the mood but she's thinking I'm not giving into his needs because he's not earning enough etc. So i would probably say that back to her.

She sometimes says I've never done things like that, for example I would love to have some fun in our big shower and i get rebuffed every time I ask. I even plucked up the courage not so long ago to get in whilst she was in there and she made me quickly wash myself and threw me out. She wasn't pleased.

In the past she has said things like it's always about how you feel isn't it etc to which I've replied well this particular issue is how I'm feeling so would you rather I just suffer in silence? It generally didn't get me anywhere however and basically made her more withdrawn than ever.

She's no longer on her period but yet again we went to bed last night and she turned over and went to sleep. To be honest now you've pointed out this problem and i'm really thankful you've given me this perspective but I'm starting to feel annoyed by her actions. I'm thinking about maybe not going to bed with her at the same time anymore and not initiating even when we've had a drink. Not to be passive aggressive or anything but just because I've had enough of the vicious cycle. I feel horrible when she just turns over and goes to sleep and after giving it a lot of thought she never just does something because it will make me happy. 

Maybe just get myself in the best shape I can, earn more money, become the best person I can for myself and if nothing improves with her then at least I'll be able to issue an ultimatum knowing I can move out and get my own place without having to embarrassingly stay at my parents again.

Even the comment about being drunk to perform oral sex, I find infuriating now. Every single time we have sex i do that for her, including times when i've been down there for 20 mins and nearly passing out under the duvet with the heat. I do this because I know it pleases her and that makes me happy. That's never reciprocated my way.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think it's incredibly sad that you are falling for it--- that you need to earn more money in order for her to have sex with you. It's not like you are some deadbeat person who doesn't contribute to the marriage financially because you are lazy and have no initiative.

Some men would be so totally turned off by this woman's mentality, they'd be disgusted with the kind of person she is. I think the core question is: why aren't YOU?


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Livvie said:


> I think it's incredibly sad that you are falling for it--- that you need to earn more money in order for her to have sex with you. It's not like you are some deadbeat person who doesn't contribute to the marriage financially because you are lazy and have no initiative.
> 
> Some men would be so totally turned off by this woman's mentality, they'd be disgusted with the kind of person she is. I think the core question is: why aren't YOU?


I'm not saying that's the reason, but I think when I mention my needs not getting met I'm just thinking it may be something she says in return.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> I'm not saying that's the reason, but I think when I mention my needs not getting met I'm just thinking it may be something she says in return.


If she's saying it in return then it could be one of the reasons...but it's more disturbing that she would be willing to use it as a reason to throw you off, so she doesn't have to take any responsibility for NOT being a full partner to you in your marriage...


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

I used to think some of the reasons she used in the past, like she's tired from work, the kids have not long gone to sleep etc where all pretty valid and I put up them. However when I now think of it, it's simply a case of her saying I'm not feeling in the mood for reason X, Y or Z and whether I want to or not nothing's happening.

It's remarkably selfish and I don't think most people would tolerate it long term.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You are rewriting history. Common for the wayward spouse. You had the affair because you wanted to and she was a 10. I mean people can't even understand how beautiful she was. Go back and read your own thread.

Most the times when sex dries up there are reasons. You've talked with her about sex. Have you talked about the overall relationship? Have you spent time discussing with her the state of the relationship other than just sex?


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> You are rewriting history. Common for the wayward spouse. You had the affair because you wanted to and she was a 10. I mean people can't even understand how beautiful she was. Go back and read your own thread.
> 
> Most the times when sex dries up there are reasons. You've talked with her about sex. Have you talked about the overall relationship? Have you spent time discussing with her the state of the relationship other than just sex?


I had the affair because I was getting absolutely nothing from my wife. Read my thread before the affair happened.
Then yes a really attracted women turned my head.

Sex hasn’t dried up as such it just wasn’t as much as it used to be. It was usually when alcohol was involved and there was never any affection from wife, asking how my day went etc. Things that I was offering her.

I’ve heard every excuse in the book when it comes to improving things, She never told me anything specific that I’m not doing.

I’m a bit old for tit for tat now. Like I said we can have a really good day, lie together on the couch and she’ll just upstairs to bed and turn over.

Things now are exactly the same as they were before the affair so as far as I’m concerned that has no bearing on the issue.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well then I guess your plan for divorce is a solid one.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Even the comment about being drunk to perform oral sex, I find infuriating now. Every single time we have sex i do that for her, including times when i've been down there for 20 mins and nearly passing out under the duvet with the heat. I do this because I know it pleases her and that makes me happy. That's never reciprocated my way.


Have you ever heard the idea of a "covert contract" used in a sexual context?

This is when a husband does something nice for his wife and expects sexual favors in return, but this is never explicitly stated. If you told your wife that you will only give her oral if she is willing to reciprocate, she may very well opt out and ask you NOT to perform oral on her. Then you don't have to feel bad about it, or would you still for some reason?

Regards,
Badsanta


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Have you ever heard the idea of a "covert contract" used in a sexual context?
> 
> This is when a husband does something nice for his wife and expects sexual favors in return, but this is never explicitly stated. If you told your wife that you will only give her oral if she is willing to reciprocate, she may very well opt out and ask you NOT to perform oral on her. Then you don't have to feel bad about it, or would you still for some reason?
> 
> ...


I don’t perform oral sex for her so that she reciprocates with me. I doto satisfy her and I know it makes her happy.

Like I said I’m getting too old to play games, I’m not doing this so you’re not doing that etc. If my wife told me she was willing to stay together but didn’t want sex ever again I’d be out of the door like I shot. We’re not roommates.

I need to be involved in a fulfilling sexual marriage. I do lots of things for my wife because I know they make her happy. I do that because I love her. The issue happens when she knows I’m sexually frustrated and tells me to deal with it myself.

For me that’s not the sign of someone who cares about the persons needs or happiness.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> The issue happens when she knows I’m sexually frustrated and tells me to deal with it myself.
> 
> For me that’s not the sign of someone who cares about the persons needs or happiness.


Sex can be used as a weapon in marriage. It can be like going for the jugular in terms of inflicting pain.

Have you inflicted sexual pain on her in the past? Would she want to reciprocate that?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Sex can be used as a weapon in marriage. It can be like going for the jugular in terms of inflicting pain.
> 
> Have you inflicted sexual pain on her in the past? Would she want to reciprocate that?


To elaborate on that I am talking about various forms of betrayal and/or rejection as things that can cause emotional pain.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

badsanta said:


> To elaborate on that I am talking about various forms of betrayal and/or rejection as things that can cause emotional pain.


No, the only act of betrayal I can think off is well documented on here.

I don’t think she’s doing it maliciously or anything like that but as you said in another thread there’s lots of different things that run through some women’s heads when they climb into bed.

The problem with that is she’s giving no consideration as to what I want and also if she met a new man in future and started a relationship I’m almost sure she wouldn’t be treating the same.

It’s like having a room mate who every now and again after you’ve shared a drink together you end up having sex because you knew she was more open to the suggestion because of the alcohol. The next day things back to normal again.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> No, the only act of betrayal I can think off is well documented on here.
> 
> I don’t think she’s doing it maliciously or anything like that but as you said in another thread there’s lots of different things that run through some women’s heads when they climb into bed.
> 
> ...


This could become UNBEARABLE...THIS is why I took sex with my husband completely OFF the table - NO more asking, no more "discussing" it, not more "reminding" him - because I could not bear the disappointment and feelings of utter rejection, EVERY time he was supposed to take care of MY needs, like I regularly did for him.

Giving up was the only path to peace for me, and a sense of control over my feelings. 

I am NOT recommending it, because that means you embrace hopelessness, and most likely the end of your marriage, but it's the only option that made me feel better and safer - it was the only way to have someone CARE about MY needs -- ME.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> This could become UNBEARABLE...THIS is why I took sex with my husband completely OFF the table - NO more asking, no more "discussing" it, not more "reminding" him - because I could not bear the disappointment and feelings of utter rejection, EVERY time he was supposed to take care of MY needs, like I regularly did for him.
> 
> Giving up was the only path to peace for me, and a sense of control over my feelings.
> 
> I am NOT recommending it, because that means you embrace hopelessness, and most likely the end of your marriage, but it's the only option that made me feel better and safer - it was the only way to have someone CARE about MY needs -- ME.


I’ve made a mistake in the past but I still value myself enough to know what what I’m expecting is reasonable. I’m 40 next month and I could quite easily pass as a 30 year old, I’ve always looked younger than I am. I keep myself fit and I’m a good father.

I feel that I project enough out to have someone appreciate me for just being me, unfortunately it’s looking like the person I want that from doesn’t.

Tonight I’ve kept myself to myself, we’ve finished our series on Netflix anyway now which we’ve watched together for a few weeks. The kids are due to go to bed in 5 mins and my wife has already gone upstairs. She’ll be on her phone in bed.

I’ll wait downstairs and watch some tv on my own and go to bed in an hour or so. Hopefully she’ll be asleep by then.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Tonight I’ve kept myself to myself, we’ve finished our series on Netflix anyway now which we’ve watched together for a few weeks. The kids are due to go to bed in 5 mins and my wife has already gone upstairs. She’ll be on her phone in bed.


Sorry to change the topic (no I'm not), but what shows do you and your wife watch on Netflix?

My wife and I really enjoyed "Masters of Sex" which was part of a premium channel on Amazon Prime. Some other shows we really enjoyed was "Parenthood" on Netflix and "Togetherness" on HBO.

I've never been able to find another show like "Masters of Sex" that respectfully approaches the topic of sex in a biographical period piece the way that one does. It was perhaps the best show for having a good conversation about sex after each show to see what we learned. I am not sure it ever helped anything, but definitely a great show to watch in the midst of challenging problems with sex in your own marriage playing a role in the background as you both watch.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Sorry to change the topic (no I'm not), but what shows do you and your wife watch on Netflix?
> 
> My wife and I really enjoyed "Masters of Sex" which was part of a premium channel on Amazon Prime. Some other shows we really enjoyed was "Parenthood" on Netflix and "Togetherness" on HBO.
> 
> ...


We’ve watched quite a few things on Netflix but the most recent one was Queen of the South about a Mexican drugs cartel! My wife won’t watch anything about sex except she once went the cinema to watch 50 shades of grey with her mum and sister.

She actually told me the next morning she was horny when she got home but her mum and sister came back to ours with her and they ended up having a few drinks so any more thoughts on jumping on me apparently went out the window.

I’m just living the dream! Haha


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> We’ve watched quite a few things on Netflix but the most recent one was Queen of the South about a Mexican drugs cartel! My wife won’t watch anything about sex except she once went the cinema to watch 50 shades of grey with her mum and sister.
> 
> She actually told me the next morning she was horny when she got home but her mum and sister came back to ours with her and they ended up having a few drinks so any more thoughts on jumping on me apparently went out the window.
> 
> I’m just living the dream! Haha


THIS is why you need to have a discussion with her about how you are feeling - frustrated, unloved, rejected - because the resentment that will build up will be TOXIC, for you and your marriage.

You could always try WRITING her a letter first, not necessarily to read it to her, but to get ALL your anger and thoughts about everything out of your head - it's always been a great way for me to let off steam - and then go back when you've finished, and rewrite what you'd really want to say, that would be conducive to getting your needs met from her.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> I’ve made a mistake in the past but I still value myself enough to know what what I’m expecting is reasonable. I’m 40 next month and I could quite easily pass as a 30 year old, I’ve always looked younger than I am. I keep myself fit and I’m a good father.
> 
> I feel that I project enough out to have someone appreciate me for just being me, unfortunately it’s looking like the person I want that from doesn’t.
> 
> ...


Alot of women believe that men get MORE attractive as they age, so never worry about that as you are making your decisions on what is best for you to do. 
Also, 40 is still SO YOUNG, you have PLENTY of time to figure out what you really want and need, and plenty of time to try a few options with your wife, if she understands the seriousness of your feelings about everything!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Thanks Lisa. I’ve just came to bed and my wife was fast asleep with my 9 year old son next to her ha!

I’m going to try and get my feelings across just need to think of the least confrontational way!

Which, having been with my wife since I was 18 isn’t an easy thing to do!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

I'm telling you, write it out first - it's really helpful! 
And good luck!!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I'm telling you, write it out first - it's really helpful!
> And good luck!!


I’ve been thinking of the best way to approach this. I don’t want her to think of me as weak and “beta” type man by saying my needs aren’t getting met etc. Then again I don’t want to come across as alpha male and demand that unless she’s more active sexually towards me I’ll leave etc.

I kind of need something in between! I want to come across as not needy and strong and confident. Ie deserving of what I’m asking my wife to do.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> I’ve been thinking of the best way to approach this. I don’t want her to think of me as weak and “beta” type man by saying my needs aren’t getting met etc. Then again I don’t want to come across as alpha male and demand that unless she’s more active sexually towards me I’ll leave etc.
> 
> I kind of need something in between! I want to come across as not needy and strong and confident. Ie deserving of what I’m asking my wife to do.


The notion of "beta" and "alpha" is derived from comparing yourself to others. Stop that nonsense. Become the "omega" for her, in that you are the ultimate and only man she will ever need.

It takes a brave man to admit his faults. Asking for help is not a sign of weakness as long as you are working towards becoming a better person (as opposed to avoiding it).


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> I’ve been thinking of the best way to approach this. I don’t want her to think of me as weak and “beta” type man by saying my needs aren’t getting met etc. Then again I don’t want to come across as alpha male and demand that unless she’s more active sexually towards me I’ll leave etc.
> 
> I kind of need something in between! I want to come across as not needy and strong and confident. Ie deserving of what I’m asking my wife to do.


I wish some other posters would chime in here with advice... @Marduk and @ConanHub have always had suggestions for this type of conversation that were no-nonsense and direct, and didn't sound "beta" at all...maybe they'll show up soon...??

The important thing to remember is that you are probably not going to have only one conversation with her about this - it's going to be a PROCESS, and you cannot give up if the first conversation doesn't go the way you want. She is probably very happy being in control of your sex life and having things the way SHE wants them, and not having to face the responsibility of meeting your needs...so she will most likely be very resistant to changing that - that doesn't mean it's hopeless or that you should give up!! Just be ready to feel frustrated and disappointed with her after the first confrontation about it.

And I don't think you would appear weak and "beta" for saying you have needs and you deserve them to be met - I actually think that makes you really strong! What you should try to go for is ASSERTIVENESS and directness. What appears weak is whining or passive aggressiveness - but saying, "I am not happy or satisfied with having NO control over my sex life with you, and I need things to change" DOES sound strong and determined.

There are also books and articles online that you could read to get some ideas of how to navigate conversations like this...I know that other members have mentioned some good books in other threads, I just can't remember them!! You could poke around the site to find the titles, or just search online for some guidance - this is such a universal problem (sadly), there are TONS of resources out there for ways to talk about it and ways to cope with it. You could even start a new thread on here, asking how to talk to your wife about having more sex - I bet you'll get tons of advice (some great, some not-so-great! Lol!!) -- there ARE men on here who have successfully negotiated with their wives for more intimacy and equal power in their sexual relationships, so that might really be the best idea!!
If you don't want to start your own, search through older threads on here about it - there are TONS (sadly)!!!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

We were at a friends birthday party last night and my wife was discussing our upcoming hotel stay next Friday (were going with the same friends).

She said something along the lines of he’s always trying to get me in the shower but I’ve never done that.

Anyway she then showed me a post she made in her friends group saying Ive asked her to watch 50 shades of grey hoping she’ll turn into the woman in the film but he doesn’t look like Christian Grey.

This morning I said to her if Christian Grey asked you to get in the shower what would you say to him and she said what time? And started laughing.
I just replied yeh that’s what I thought.

Then when I was in the shower she came in opened the door and handed me the cloth and cleaning spray and asked me to clean the shower whilst I was in there. I said are you having an ****ing laugh and she said no.

I left the stuff in the floor, got my shower and got out. 

Serious conversation coming when the kids are next out of the house.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Then when I was in the shower she came in opened the door and handed me the cloth and cleaning spray and asked me to clean the shower whilst I was in there. I said are you having an ****ing laugh and she said no.


My wife occasionally comes into the shower while I am in there (usually for a mundane reason like asking me to hand her the old shampoo bottles so she can throw them away). I always enjoy using this time to let out a loud high-pitched squeak and accuse her of being a creepy perverted old woman that just wanted any excuse to stare at my cute butt. I then shy away and start throwing soap bubbles and shower spray at her.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

It’s been a while since I posted.

Not much has changed.

lockdown hasn’t helped with my wife’s mood. She’s working from home and isn’t handling that well.

We have just returned from a week away in Greece and usually our sex life is better and more frequent.

However we had sex twice only, both times at 1.30am after lots of drinks. First time my wife stopped and said she’d had enough (clearly we were both too worse for wear) and second time my wife was on top and I tried to take her top off and she said “just leave the f**king top on. I couldn’t be bothered after that and pretended to come and she leaned over and went to sleep.

I tried to initiate first thing of a morning, got rejected and also said during the day what time are you meeting me in the room and she replied just shut up. As if she’s basically sick of me talking about it.

Basically sober sex is a complete non starter.

Banging my head against a brick wall. I’m now concentrating on my own life from now, getting some money together so that I can pull the trigger on my marriage I can move straight into an apartment. I’m done.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> It’s been a while since I posted.
> 
> Not much has changed.
> 
> ...


I was actually JUST thinking of you yesterday!! I'm really glad you posted an update, but I wish it was better, more hopeful news than it is...

I think it's a good idea to make plans to leave if your needs are being so ignored by your wife. You deserve to have the sex life you want, or at least a partner who is willing to be more giving to you and who cares about what you want. That's the point of marriage!!! (at least, I thought it was!)

Did you ever have a direct, honest conversation with her about how serious this is to you...??


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> I’m now concentrating on my own life from now, getting some money together so that I can pull the trigger on my marriage I can move straight into an apartment. I’m done.


I think it would be fair to make sure that she understands this. No surprises.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I was actually JUST thinking of you yesterday!! I'm really glad you posted an update, but I wish it was better, more hopeful news than it is...
> 
> I think it's a good idea to make plans to leave if your needs are being so ignored by your wife. You deserve to have the sex life you want, or at least a partner who is willing to be more giving to you and who cares about what you want. That's the point of marriage!!! (at least, I thought it was!)
> 
> Did you ever have a direct, honest conversation with her about how serious this is to you...??


Thanks for the thought Lisa.

Everytime I’ve tried to bring up the conversation and discuss she just consistently says it’s always about me. She’s a very highly strung person when she’s sober at the best of times. If I stopped talking about it maybe she’d be more interested. Tried that many times.

Rest assured she knows full well how I feel. I’ve noticed myself snapping at the kids a couple of times during holiday this week because I’m in a mood about the situation and it’s not fair on them.

Her parents are with us as usual on holiday and they’re relationship is just toxic. Her mum usually drinks too much and ruins meals/nights etc which doesn’t help the situation.

Either way I’ve had enough of all of them and constantly feeling this way. You mentioned in an earlier post about withdrawing yourself from your husband to prevent any more hurt and anticipation of things improving. I’m going to do the same until I’ve lined up my ducks.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> I think it would be fair to make sure that she understands this. No surprises.


yes I agree.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> yes I agree.


I don't agree. My ex blindsided me with saying she was leaving after 20+ years so hey, at that point it became all business. By the time one spouse has considered leaving, its too late to work anything out.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I don't agree. My ex blindsided me with saying she was leaving after 20+ years so hey, at that point it became all business. By the time one spouse has considered leaving, its too late to work anything out.


I'm not sure what you are saying - do you think he SHOULD make sure there are no surprises (which he agrees with), or that he should NOT...??

Many times (and I am definitely NOT saying this happened in your situation, or all of them!), by the time a spouse has considered leaving, there were plenty of warning signs and rug-sweeping over issues, so it's rarely an actual surprise.
In his previous post, @BIL310 states right out, he's talked to her, and she KNOWS he's unhappy...so what else can he deduce from that except that she doesn't care.

Self-centeredness is the cancer of relationships...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> Thanks for the thought Lisa.
> 
> Everytime I’ve tried to bring up the conversation and discuss she just consistently says it’s always about me. She’s a very highly strung person when she’s sober at the best of times. If I stopped talking about it maybe she’d be more interested. Tried that many times.
> 
> ...


I definitely understand how you are feeling, and I wish you the best outcome for YOU!!!

Be sure to keep posting on here as you go through the process, if you ever need support - SO many people on here have been where you are and have so much wisdom to offer!!

And I'll be watching for your updates!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I'm not sure what you are saying - do you think he SHOULD make sure there are no surprises (which he agrees with), or that he should NOT...??
> 
> Many times (and I am definitely NOT saying this happened in your situation, or all of them!), by the time a spouse has considered leaving, there were plenty of warning signs and rug-sweeping over issues, so it's rarely an actual surprise.
> In his previous post, @BIL310 states right out, he's talked to her, and she KNOWS he's unhappy...so what else can he deduce from that except that she doesn't care.
> ...


I am saying if he wants to get a divorce and leave, he should. He doesn't owe her any warning or advanced notice.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

badsanta said:


> THAT is something that needs work. In my opinion I think some wive reject a husband's advance as a sh*t test for the purpose of trying to determine, "does he really love me or does he just want to use me for sex?" If she rejects you and you immediately withdraw all nonsexual intimacy and get upset, she likely just validated her self-fulfilling prophecy of things turning to sh*t.
> 
> Next time your wife rejects your advances, crank up the nonsexual intimacy of hugging and back rubs while telling her that she is the one that will not be allowed to have sex with you because you agree with her notion that now is not a good time. If she puts her hands on your penis to see if you are being truthful, push them away! Get upset about it and tell her that just because you have an erection does not mean that her touching it will feel good and then insist you want a back rub.
> 
> ...


Problem is for those of us who's LL is physical intamacy if i were in this situation i emotionally shut down and distance myself as a means to protect myself emotionally. Has nothing to do with sex just for sex, that is how i feel emotionally connected with my wife. 3rd day out and my wife asks if im mad at her, has she done something wrong.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Ok so if I bring the question up about improving affection/intimacy and she replies, the kids are always awake till late, I’ve been busy in work, I’ve just been tired etc. You’re suggesting I take that at face value or tell her they’re just excuses.
> 
> Or maybe just try this It’s time to be honest with yourself and me, why is our sex life dependant on me initiating after a drink, and you responding when in the mood?
> 
> Knowing my wife I’ll probably get a load of responses about that I did, which I’d accept like I said if it’s only been since that.


Put a lock on your bedroom door.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Question. If I bring it up again about my needs not getting met and my wife turns around and says well my needs aren’t getting met you aren’t earning enough money how do you think I should respond?
> 
> I do need to earn more money and lockdown has unfortunately hampered my company. Hopefully it’s only short term though.
> 
> ...


Then you are free to get you a job to meet those needs, do i need to find another woman to meet my needs?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> We’ve watched quite a few things on Netflix but the most recent one was Queen of the South about a Mexican drugs cartel! My wife won’t watch anything about sex except she once went the cinema to watch 50 shades of grey with her mum and sister.
> 
> She actually told me the next morning she was horny when she got home but her mum and sister came back to ours with her and they ended up having a few drinks so any more thoughts on jumping on me apparently went out the window.
> 
> I’m just living the dream! Haha


Ah yes the mommy smut stuff. Only 3 women i know of got into that book. Hubbys liked the benefits of their hyper sexualized wives while it lasted.2 of them cheated on their husbands after.

When they were sexing up their hubbies i wanted to say, "Dude, she is fantasizing about screwing the guy in the book and you are a human dildo".
Women were so hyped about that book it reinforced to not listen to what a woman says but what they do. Women in general were always saying how they want guys that treat them so good and respect them and then all these women were getting all hot and borhered by SofG. Nice guy, respect...BS!

Glad my wife is wired more like a man in thought process. Her X was a dik so she wanted a good guy and not a bad boy.

Who is she texting on the phone with soo much?????


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> We were at a friends birthday party last night and my wife was discussing our upcoming hotel stay next Friday (were going with the same friends).
> 
> She said something along the lines of he’s always trying to get me in the shower but I’ve never done that.
> 
> ...


So she is blantly dissing you to her friends. She has no respect for you at all. She probably would screw him, in yalls bed no doubt.

At one point i felt unrespected by my wife. I was co-dependant and had her on a pedestal. I came to a point that i was going to better myself and she was going to get on board or i will be good to go for next one. I lost about 50# in 2 months and hit the weights hard. Scared the crap out of her, she thought i was already gone. All good now.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> Put a lock on your bedroom door.


We recently got new doors fitted in our house. Every door has a lock, makes no difference!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I am saying if he wants to get a divorce and leave, he should. He doesn't owe her any warning or advanced notice.


I don't have anywhere to go at the moment.

Also the UK has entered second lockdown for at least another month and we both work from home in separate rooms upstairs. It's not as if I can really do anything different like go and spend time with my friends and other activities that I want. The only thing really is to earn as much money as possible so I can afford deposits for place to live etc. Go to bed when she's asleep. Work out etc.

I completely understand if someone's not in the mood for sex as much as their partner, as others have pointed out the issue is that my needs aren't getting met, aren't important for her to resolve either. Even something as little as "I'm not in the mood at the moment but i'll still help you out orally or with my hand so that you're not like a 15 year old pleasuring himself in the toilet again".


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

BIL310 said:


> I couldn’t be bothered after that and pretended to come


_Wrong move. You needed to put the brakes on altogether._



BIL310 said:


> Her parents are with us as usual on holiday and they’re relationship is just toxic. Her mum usually drinks too much and ruins meals/nights etc which doesn’t help the situation.


_She hasn't cut the apron strings. Why not?_



BIL310 said:


> We recently got new doors fitted in our house. Every door has a lock,* makes no difference!*


_You have to actually engage the lock to keep the kids out._

It doesn't sound as though you have had a 'come to Jesus' convo with your wife. In that convo you inform your wife that she will no longer talk to you with disrespect and contempt; you inform her that her parents are no longer welcome to ruin your holidays and she is to cut back on her time with mum and sis; you tell her that the kids do not need to have instance access to you and you will be locking the bedroom door to ensure privacy.

For good measure, tell her that if she continues to use you as the butt of her jokes that she will be embarrassed when you return the favor. Inform her that you will be giving her 30 days to get her crap together and start acting like a loving wife or you'll be investigating your options.

In short, put your foot down and stop accepting her disrespect.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> Then you are free to get you a job to meet those needs, do i need to find another woman to meet my needs?


He already tried that.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> _Wrong move. You needed to put the brakes on altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes you're right I should have just stopped there and then when she said just ffing leaving my top on. I mentioned this yesterday to her and she didn't even remember saying it - she pulled a shocked face. That's what happens when you only have sex after drinking a lot of alcohol. She didn't apologise though.

Her mum is one of those don't mention my age types, she's 60 this month and we're not allowed to mention her age or celebrate it. She just constantly wants to spend time with my wife though. However, over the 20+ years I've known her she's ruined countless occasions by over-drinking. She divorced my Wifes Father 33 years ago and married someone else a couple of years later. (She's told us on many occasions she regrets doing that - even in front of her now husband) I get along with him like a friend rather than Father in law.

To be honest we've socialised with them for 20 years. My wife is just very close with her mother so all is forgiven usually after a couple of days.

Her mum is more free spirited than my wife. My Wife is very prudish, told me she's never masturbated since we met, doesn't talk about sex. Whereas if her mum is having issues with her step dads performance everybody knows about it. She always saying we need to find her a new man on tinder in front of him! Whilst he's usually just shaking his head, snarling behind her. It's a toxic relationship and I told her this the other day the night.

I also told my Wife that her Mum isn't welcome drinking in front of our children anymore, luckily with lockdown now we won't see them for at least 4 weeks anyway. Without a drink her mum is very kind and does lots of good things with our children however all they are remembering now is that Nan got drunk again and ruined the night.

Regarding the bedroom locks, we do lock them whenever we do anything. I don't lock it automatically because I feel stupid if I lock them (she then knows the reason why and 9/10 times she'll reject me. So i initiate, then when she doesn't push me away she says you'd better lock the door. I've mentioned on here before she'll put her nightie on knowing full well I'm going to initiate then I've got to take it back off. When I asked why she's doesn't leave it off she said she doesn't know, habit probably.

We're at the stage where the following has been rejected:


Shower together
Blow jobs (finds them disgusting)
Sex with light on
Sex on any other room of house
Sex in the afternoon whilst kids at school
Sober sex in general

On holiday she looked very attractive in her bikini and I'm just constantly walking around like a dog on heat. I just went back the room and relieved myself a couple of times. Instead of morning sex whilst kids were asleep she scrolled through facebook on her phone. Then by the pool whilst kids were with her mum and dad suggested we go back the room, got told to shut up.

I said to her yesterday she didn't orgasm once on holiday nor did I perform oral sex which isn't normal is it? And she replied lots of things weren't normal about the holiday. I assumed she was talking about her mum but I should have pushed it more now.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Forgot to mention also. As 99% of the time we have sex after drinking I experience lack of erection on a couple of occasions. So for a while now I take a small amount of viagra. I justify this by thinking we don't have sex tonight that will be it for another 2-3 weeks.

Anyway the other week my wife decided to not drink for 1 month. I initiated and we attempted to have sex one night sober for the first time in a while.

I hadn't taken any viagra and it again played on mind what if the loss of erection happens again. Anyway I ended up getting an erection and then by the time I leaned over to put the condom on I lost my erection. It happened a couple of times, my wife got annoyed and said she can't be bothered. The first time it's ever happened to me sober. I explained the situation about the viagra, the alcohol and the fact that I know she's impatient and this also doesn't help me solve the problem. Didn't bother her, she just put her nightie on and went to sleep.

Pretty messed up situation all round.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> Forgot to mention also. As 99% of the time we have sex after drinking I experience lack of erection on a couple of occasions. So for a while now I take a small amount of viagra. I justify this by thinking we don't have sex tonight that will be it for another 2-3 weeks.
> 
> Anyway the other week my wife decided to not drink for 1 month. I initiated and we attempted to have sex one night sober for the first time in a while.
> 
> ...


YES...this is toxic and SAD...and you need to make some changes...you DESERVE them!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

This ted talk is spot on


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

BIL310 said:


> Yes you're right I should have just stopped there and then when she said just ffing leaving my top on. I mentioned this yesterday to her and she didn't even remember saying it - she pulled a shocked face. That's what happens when you only have sex after drinking a lot of alcohol. She didn't apologise though.
> 
> Her mum is one of those don't mention my age types, she's 60 this month and we're not allowed to mention her age or celebrate it. She just constantly wants to spend time with my wife though. However, over the 20+ years I've known her she's ruined countless occasions by over-drinking. She divorced my Wifes Father 33 years ago and married someone else a couple of years later. (She's told us on many occasions she regrets doing that - even in front of her now husband) I get along with him like a friend rather than Father in law.
> 
> ...


All I'm reading are excuses. Are you going to take the bull by the horns or not?


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> All I'm reading are excuses. Are you going to take the bull by the horns or not?


I’ve already told her about her mum and that she’s not welcome around our children with a drink anymore.

Regarding talking to her friends, I’d assume most women talk about their husbands and faults etc when together. That doesn’t particularly bother me. I was more mentioning it just for my wife’s mindset when it comes to sex.

I actually seen a post in no more mr nice guy forum on someone’s thread that said next time your wife rejects you pull it out and finish yourself next to her. I can’t imagine that going down well with my wife.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

BIL310 said:


> I’ve already told her about her mum and that she’s not welcome around our children with a drink anymore.
> 
> Regarding talking to her friends, I’d assume most women talk about their husbands and faults etc when together. That doesn’t particularly bother me. I was more mentioning it just for my wife’s mindset when it comes to sex.
> 
> I actually seen a post in no more mr nice guy forum on someone’s thread that said next time your wife rejects you pull it out and finish yourself next to her. I can’t imagine that going down well with my wife.


And, you care, why? You aren't getting any anyway.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> And, you care, why? You aren't getting any anyway.


true! I know for a fact she’d say what the hell are you doing and don’t you dare dirty the sheets!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> I actually seen a post in no more mr nice guy forum on someone’s thread that said next time your wife rejects you pull it out and finish yourself next to her.* I can’t imagine that going down well with my wife.*


I believe that's actually the point of doing it...!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

The hard part at the moment is keeping my mouth shut. For example my wife snaps at what I believe are the smallest things. The latest episode was she came up to bed around 9pm and I was on our bed working on my laptop. She said in a very condescending manner that it's out of order I work in the living room and also in bed when she's coming in trying to relax. I need to keep my work in my office only.

I snapped back that she was just a nasty, cold hearted person who is constantly moaning about something. Earlier on she moaned because I fancied eating something else instead of the left over meal she'd made the day before that I wasn't hungry for. I just feel like she controls every part of my life.

She's telling me what to eat, she earns more so what we can and can't spend money on, when and how we have sex, where we go on holiday, who comes with us on holiday.

To be honest she has moaned before about my work overspilling into other rooms of the house and she wants a boundary which I can understand. I just sometimes need a change of scenery from my being in my home office all day. I suppose at the moment the way I feel she's mistreated my feelings and needs is magnifying the little things and my reaction to them.

I need to focus on earning more, eating healthily and working out. And taking care of my kids with a smile on my face and acting like I don't have a care in the world to her.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> The hard part at the moment is keeping my mouth shut. For example my wife snaps at what I believe are the smallest things. The latest episode was she came up to bed around 9pm and I was on our bed working on my laptop. She said in a very condescending manner that it's out of order I work in the living room and also in bed when she's coming in trying to relax. I need to keep my work in my office only.
> 
> I snapped back that she was just a nasty, cold hearted person who is constantly moaning about something. Earlier on she moaned because I fancied eating something else instead of the left over meal she'd made the day before that I wasn't hungry for. I just feel like she controls every part of my life.
> 
> ...


I don’t blame her tbh. I’m sure she is plenty resentful. It doesn’t sound like you like your wife very much, why did you want her back anyway?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> She's telling me what to eat, she earns more so what we can and can't spend money on, when and how we have sex, where we go on holiday, who comes with us on holiday.


You don’t make it easy for yourself, being passive aggressive is hardly a winning approach. Plus more importantly just being inherently passive makes you open to what your wife does to you.

My wife earns more than I do and has done so through most of our relationship together. Yet we do not share your problems and share a splendidly rich sex life as well.

There is a better way, yet it isn't found in the carry on that you both actively relish.

Until you stop playing the victim, you will be exactly that.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I don’t blame her tbh. I’m sure she is plenty resentful. It doesn’t sound like you like your wife very much, why did you want her back anyway?


At the moment I don't like her very much you're exactly right. And neither would most men if they were treated the same way. I thought she'd change and she did initially but now she's back to her usual self.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Personal said:


> You don’t make it easy for yourself, being passive aggressive is hardly a winning approach. Plus more importantly just being inherently passive makes you open to what your wife does to you.
> 
> My wife earns more than I do and has done so through most of our relationship together. Yet we do not share your problems and share a splendidly rich sex life as well.
> 
> ...


Passive aggressive as in not telling her exactly how I feel about the situation? I've tried that in the past, didn't get me anywhere.

I don't relish any part of the situation, I simply want a wife to act like a wife and not some highly strung boss/flatmate she's turned into. She snaps at the most ridiculous things, even with the children.

It's not a case of playing the victim, it's a case of that's how things are. I'm pleased your in a happy relationship, you're wife's probably a lot more easy going than mine.

I don't want to issue any sort of ultimatum at the moment because I have nowhere to go. I can't afford a place of my own so I need to just get on with it until my income changes.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

To be honest looking at passive aggressive online in relationships it's my wife who's that type of person rather than me. She knows what I want, how I feel about lots of things. On the other hand I still don't know half the time whether to hug or leave her alone. 

She did say a while ago maybe it's because her Mum and Dad divorced when she was young that she doesn't let her guard down.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> At the moment I don't like her very much you're exactly right. And neither would most men if they were treated the same way. I thought she'd change and she did initially but now she's back to her usual self.


You cheated on her and she is resentful. You said you wanted the marriage to work, that means you have to put in a lot of work. Are you? It doesn’t sound like it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> Passive aggressive as in not telling her exactly how I feel about the situation? I've tried that in the past, didn't get me anywhere.
> 
> I don't relish any part of the situation, I simply want a wife to act like a wife and not some highly strung boss/flatmate she's turned into. She snaps at the most ridiculous things, even with the children.
> 
> ...


How is a wife suppose to act?
How is a husband suppose to act?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> To be honest looking at passive aggressive online in relationships it's my wife who's that type of person rather than me. She knows what I want, how I feel about lots of things. On the other hand I still don't know half the time whether to hug or leave her alone.
> 
> She did say a while ago maybe it's because her Mum and Dad divorced when she was young that she doesn't let her guard down.


She makes it clear what she wants as well though. Didn’t she say that she wants you to work in your office and not all around the house?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

For someone who says things like “I want a wife to act like a wife”... I mean you cheated on her and you don’t make any money. Are you acting like a husband? Right now you are her dependent, and one that cheated. I think you have some balls to say what your saying. It’s actually crazy how entitled you are.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> For someone who says things like “I want a wife to act like a wife”... I mean you cheated on her and you don’t make any money. Are you acting like a husband? Right now you are her dependent, and one that cheated. I think you have some balls to say what your saying. It’s actually crazy how entitled you are.


I do make money. Just not as much as I used to. For years I was the main breadwinner. I've already explained why I did what I did also.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> How is a wife suppose to act?
> How is a husband suppose to act?


A husband and wife are supposed to be meeting each others needs as part of a relationship. Once this stops happening, the marriage unravels in certain directions. My wife knows my needs, and ignores them. I know my Wife wants to feel less financial burden and for me to contribute more which I'm trying to do every single day. That's the difference. 

I perform oral sex on my wife, do I enjoy it? Not really. However I do it for her. Her on the other hand finds oral sex disgusting and refuses to do it for me. I drop my Wife off on a night out and pick her up no matter that time it is. When I ask, I get told to no. 

She makes it clear sometimes what she wants but a lot of other times she just goes quiet for days on end bottling things up.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> A husband and wife are supposed to be meeting each others needs as part of a relationship. Once this stops happening, the marriage unravels in certain directions. My wife knows my needs, and ignores them. I know my Wife wants to feel less financial burden and for me to contribute more which I'm trying to do every single day. That's the difference.
> 
> I perform oral sex on my wife, do I enjoy it? Not really. However I do it for her. Her on the other hand finds oral sex disgusting and refuses to do it for me. I drop my Wife off on a night out and pick her up no matter that time it is. When I ask, I get told to no.
> 
> She makes it clear sometimes what she wants but a lot of other times she just goes quiet for days on end bottling things up.


This post by itself shows all kinds of key items' being way out of kilter on both sides.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

If my husband cheated on me I doubt I would give oral sex to him. Actually I know I wouldn’t.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> If my husband cheated on me I doubt I would give oral sex to him. Actually I know I wouldn’t.


Again i'll repeat myself. This has been going on long before that. Nothing what's happening now didn't happen beforehand.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This post by itself shows all kinds of key items' being way out of kilter on both sides.


I don't see how its out of kilter on my side when I'm the one who's attempting to meet her needs whilst she ignores mine.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> I don't see how its out of kilter on my side when I'm the one who's attempting to meet her needs whilst she ignores mine.


It's the putting up with her having things her way while belittling your input or desires, sex or other, that cause me to bring that up.

You have let her have her way too many times causing her to think should have it all her way and you should accept her judgments on what's acceptable or not.

She's now deeply entrenched in that paradigm, and it will be harder for you to right the ship even if you do everything right to do so.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> Again i'll repeat myself. This has been going on long before that. Nothing what's happening now didn't happen beforehand.


It she didn’t give you oral before you cheated she’s not going to give it to you after.
SoMe women don’t like to do that, so they don’t. They don’t have to do it. You don’t seem to understand how entitled you are. If THAT is a problem for you, then leave her and find someone who likes to do it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's the putting up with her having things her way while belittling your input or desires, sex or other, that cause me to bring that up.
> 
> You have let her have her way too many times causing her to think should have it all her way and you should accept her judgments on what's acceptable or not.
> 
> She's now deeply entrenched in that paradigm, and it will be harder for you to right the ship even if you do everything right to do so.


Because she will leave him if things aren’t her way. And he doesn’t want to be left therefore he puts up with this.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

And if I were her I would be the same way. Doesn’t sound like he offers much to her.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

I guarantee that if my wife met someone else she'd be performing oral sex until the cows come home. So don't talk to me about passive aggression when it's clear she's playing


Girl_power said:


> And if I were her I would be the same way. Doesn’t sound like he offers much to her.


You don't even know how ridiculous you sound. Doesn't offer much? I do everything for her and it's not reciprocated. Ragnar is correct, I've put up with it for far too long nevermind the other way around.


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## Ms. Hawaii (Mar 28, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> So don't talk to me about passive aggression when it's clear she's playing
> 
> 
> You don't even know how ridiculous you sound. Doesn't offer much? I do everything for her and it's not reciprocated. Ragnar is correct, I've put up with it for far too long nevermind the other way around.


Can you give examples of how she’s playing?

What kinds of things do you do for your wife?

What did you two do to fix your marriage after your betrayal?

What are you doing to get rid of your debts (business loans?)?

Has it occurred to you that maybe maybe just maybe you’re wife is no longer attracted to you due to your attitude?

I’ve read your previous posts. You cheated, you don’t make much, and you don’t like criticism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Ms. Hawaii said:


> Can you give examples of how she’s playing?
> 
> What kinds of things do you do for your wife?
> 
> ...


We didn't do anything we simply got back together after 3 months apart.

I don't have any debt anymore, I filed for bankruptcy earlier this year.

If she's not attracted to me because of my attitude then she should simply come out and say it. I'm too old to be playing games.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Personal said:


> You don’t make it easy for yourself, being passive aggressive is hardly a winning approach. Plus more importantly just being inherently passive makes you open to what your wife does to you.
> 
> My wife earns more than I do and has done so through most of our relationship together. Yet we do not share your problems and share a splendidly rich sex life as well.
> 
> ...


OP, soak this in.

You are 50%+ responsible for your marital dynamic, yet you would never know it based on how you post about your wife's inadequacies. 

I'm not suggesting she is a saint. But you're lack of emotional control, combined with planting your ass in the victim chair, makes for a downright toxic environment.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> I guarantee that if my wife met someone else she'd be performing oral sex until the cows come home. So don't talk to me about passive aggression when it's clear she's playing
> 
> 
> You don't even know how ridiculous you sound. Doesn't offer much? I do everything for her and it's not reciprocated. Ragnar is correct, I've put up with it for far too long nevermind the other way around.


I’m sure she would give oral to SOMEONE else. You don’t get it. She doesn’t want to give oral to YOU because of what you did to her, and probably how you have treated her in the past.

I’m not being ridiculous. She wanted to leave you. I think she tried to leave you but you came crawling back begging her to take you back after the affair. You were trying to WIN her back, and she gave you the OPPORTUNITY to win her over. And your not winning her over. She holds all the cards because she is willing to leave you.

You said you can’t even afford to find a place on your own. Therefore you are not independent, so you are her dependent.

You do not seem to understand your place right now. You are LUCKY she agreed to try to make the marriage work again. You have absolutely nothing to complain about. You should be doing anything to win her back.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Ms. Hawaii said:


> Can you give examples of how she’s playing?
> 
> What kinds of things do you do for your wife?
> 
> ...


The one thing a lot of women on this thread have mentioned is being passive aggressive. I'm telling you my wife is this way a lot of the time but as that doesn't fit in with your narrative you simply revert back to my affair. Like I said, if your wife or husband for that matter doesn't care about your needs then it can happen where those needs are met elsewhere. It's as black and white as that.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> The one thing a lot of women on this thread have mentioned is being passive aggressive. I'm telling you my wife is this way a lot of the time but as that doesn't fit in with your narrative you simply revert back to my affair. Like I said, if your wife or husband for that matter doesn't care about your needs then it can happen where those needs are met elsewhere. It's as black and white as that.


Then why did she leave you and you won’t leave her!?!?!?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Then why did she leave you and you won’t leave her!?!?!?


I’ll answer this question for you. Because you NEED her. She doesn’t need you dude.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I’m sure she would give oral to SOMEONE else. You don’t get it. She doesn’t want to give oral to YOU because of what you did to her, and probably how you have treated her in the past.
> 
> I’m not being ridiculous. She wanted to leave you. I think she tried to leave you but you came crawling back begging her to take you back after the affair. You were trying to WIN her back, and she gave you the OPPORTUNITY to win her over. And your not winning her over. She holds all the cards because she is willing to leave you.
> 
> ...


Guessing games again. I didn't come crawling back at all, it was actually her idea. As far as I'm concerned the reason I am back was because she knew she wasn't interested in any of my needs at the time and for a few years prior.

I'm quite willing to leave. I'll probably have enough saved up by the end of the month. 

I know my worth and I know my place and I don't need someone like you pointing the finger because you can't take your blinkers off.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I’ll answer this question for you. Because you NEED her. She doesn’t need you dude.


I've already proved I don't need her and if my needs aren't met like they weren't last time - I'll leave instead of having an affair again.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> OP, soak this in.
> 
> You are 50%+ responsible for your marital dynamic, yet you would never know it based on how you post about your wife's inadequacies.
> 
> ...


No victim chair about it. I'm stating the reason why instead of having an affair again I'm going to leave my wife. I'm done talking.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Again i'll repeat myself. This has been going on long before that. Nothing what's happening now didn't happen beforehand.


This may be accurate.

However, you are really trying to sweep your extra-marital activities under the rug.

Own your ****, dude. Until you do, NOTHING changes.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> The one thing a lot of women on this thread have mentioned is being passive aggressive. I'm telling you my wife is this way a lot of the time but as that doesn't fit in with your narrative you simply revert back to my affair. Like I said, if your wife or husband for that matter doesn't care about your needs then it can happen where those needs are met elsewhere. It's as black and white as that.


You have had two men post the same thing.

Guess what?

I don't have a narrative.

You telling them they have a narrative is pure projection.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> No victim chair about it. I'm stating the reason why instead of having an affair again I'm going to leave my wife. I'm done talking.


You don't understand.

Do you want to understand?

If not, I will stop trying to get you to get it.

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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> This may be accurate.
> 
> However, you are really trying to sweep your extra-marital activities under the rug.
> 
> ...


I'm not sweeping anything under the rug. My wife did actually meet someone herself on holiday around 7 years ago and was texting him when she came back so I don't know what went on. Like I keep saying there's two sides to every story. 

Anyway I'm bored myself talking about it now. I know what I want.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> No victim chair about it. I'm stating the reason why instead of having an affair again I'm going to leave my wife. I'm done talking.


Well, I have to applaud your decisiveness at this point.

Best to split rather than both of you enduring a slow torturous separating in the end anyway.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Well, I have to applaud your decisiveness at this point.
> 
> Best to split rather than both of you enduring a slow torturous separating in the end anyway.


I agree. There doesn’t sound like there is a lot of love there from either side.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Passive aggressive as in not telling her exactly how I feel about the situation?


Bringing the laptop to bed, when you already knew how she felt about it, was passive aggressive behaviour.



> It's not a case of playing the victim, it's a case of that's how things are.


This isn't something your wife is doing to you.

You are both driving this situation, with toxic contempt for the other.



> I don't want to issue any sort of ultimatum at the moment because I have nowhere to go. I can't afford a place of my own so I need to just get on with it until my income changes.


Then thank her for feeding you, and providing you somewhere to live.



BIL310 said:


> I perform oral sex on my wife, do I enjoy it? Not really. However I do it for her. Her on the other hand finds oral sex disgusting and refuses to do it for me.


If you don't like performing oral sex on your wife, then don't do it.

Likewise if you don't enjoy the sex you share with your wife, then stop sharing sex with her.

The same applies to your wife as well.



BIL310 said:


> We're at the stage where the following has been rejected:
> 
> 
> Shower together
> ...


Of which, this is a description of a woman who clearly doesn't enjoy the sex you share and is loathe to have sex with you.

As long as sex in your marriage is nothing more than you or her getting serviced, in ways that neither of you like very much. It is pretty evident that you are both married to the wrong people.



BIL310 said:


> I'm too old to be playing games.


Then stop playing them.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I didn't vote, but will say this, just being with a receptive partner can be soul draining. For some, sex is their love language, and just having sex with a partner thats goes through the motions without any emotions can make them feel worse than if they'd just said no.


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