# Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?



## jld

Was it his compassion . . . his truthfulness . . . his simplicity?

If you had been living in Israel at that time, what would have drawn you to him?


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## Sandfly

Nice topic! 

I like his analogies, using ordinary language to get a point across, this one is an example about how you can't be a Christian and be chasing after money:

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other: or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You can't serve God and mammon. (i.e. greed) 

Also, the ones we all know about stone-chucking, and the mustard seed, and the rich man not going to heaven any more than the camel through a needle...

His trademark - Using the concrete for-instance to explain the abstract principle.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *Jld said*: *Was it his compassion . . . his truthfulness . . . his simplicity?*


 All of the above...

Even if one doesn't believe in Jesus... I think we all want others to live his Parables -his ETHICS... if you will. What else really moves people but a compassion that goes beyond our own. 

Humility is seen as weak to most people... but if it is balanced with a valiant spirit (lionhearted, heroic, courageousness)...then something happens....you stand in awe..with great respect. 

He Had THAT going on ..or his story surely leaves behind...

I am drawn to people of character, those who show a genuineness in how they live their lives & handle their relationships.....when you can count on their word...not just to flatter in a moment, then forget you exist the next day or joke back.. "Oh you thought I meant that?".... 

Making mistakes... being human ...we can't get away from that....but having the fortitude to go to the person you hurt, seek reconciliation/ mercy...determined to make it right "Leaving that gift at the alter' type thing....this is good, in line with Jesus teachings..love those sort of people...so I would also Love the Teacher of such ways..... no one needs to be perfect...it's all in the attitude, our motivations......the willingness to rise above where we are, own our own hand.. 

Jesus and Sinners...










There is just something about a *repentant heart*... isn't there...all of us screw up, we do things we shouldn't...speak harshly in a moment against someone...I think our conscience knows we are only hurting ourselves when we continue in this.. Jesus represents being able to find acceptance -no matter where we have been.. That's some pretty deep sh** depending on where we have BEEN.

Sometimes I feel those who have hit the gutters of life are more in tuned to this magnificent forgiveness & have a deeper appreciation for it over those who haven't been in those trenches & come out of it..Like Mary Magdalene...
















.. List of Parables 

So many... some that stand out to me.... The Prodigal son... the Good Samaritan.... Prayer of the Pharisee & tax Collector...Persistent Widow & Unjust Judge... Wise & the foolish builders... The Parable of the Un merciful Servant....just so many ...deep messages for our daily living...

I have to say this though... one my husband does not like....the widow & the 2 mites....anytime he hears this, he gets the idea God expects us to starve and give our last penny, like we should live on the streets like Paupers/ Hare Krishna's hanging at airports or something...... he rarely comes to church with me & when he does, it's like a running Joke that the widow & her penny will be in the sermon...


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## jld

Hi, Sandfly! Thanks for your response.

There are so many sayings from the Bible that I love. I appreciate the one you focused on, about having two masters. A big problem American churches have is that they are so focused on money. Gosh, that is a whole other thread in itself!

I think the saying I would like to focus on, because it is so apropos of this site, is this: It is from the heart that the mouth speaks.

Jesus understood people. He looked beyond their behavior, which is so focused on here, and looked into their hearts. He saw their selfishness, their shortsightedness, their laziness, and deceitfulness, and loved them anyway. He knew everything bad about people, and loved them anyway. He knew they would kill him, and he loved them anyway. Jesus's life was just pure giving.

Jesus could do that because he was a secure man. He knew who he was, what he believed in, and what he wanted to do. He didn't need people to tell him he was okay. He didn't need to fit in. He just knew what was right and he did it.

And he walked the last mile alone.

It does not take any courage at all to join in on bashing someone or a group of people. It does not take any courage to tell someone everything that is wrong with him or her. It does take some kindness, and patience, and compassion to listen to that person, seek to understand, and try to heal their heart. And to me, this site is all about healing hearts. There are so very many hurting hearts here, and in our world.

I am so glad for the teachings of Jesus. I think he was such an inspiring man. I wish I could see more of his teachings reflected in the lives of his followers, or at least a little more humility in acknowledging their shortcomings.

Honestly, I wish I would see more of his teachings reflected in my own life.

I think Jesus asked people to be honest with themselves. When we are honest with ourselves, when we see just how short we fall, we become more understanding of others. We see just how much we and they need compassion. We say, "Help me understand," and, "How can I help?" We move off judgment and into caring for one another.

I think people were drawn to Jesus because of his love. They just felt it. When you are bathed in love, you just don't want to be away from it. It heals you and cleanses you and makes you want to be kind to others. Love is the start.

This is why I believe in attachment parenting, active listening, and other gentle, insightful approaches to dealing with humanity. These things focus on healing and uplifting people. 

It is hard to keep a positive outlook when so much around us is negative. I am so grateful for my dh -- he is the example of Jesus in my life. Do you know 1 Corinthians 13:4-7? I can put my dh's name in there. To me he totally fits that passage.

I heard a minister speak to husbands once, telling them that they were Jesus to their wives, that their wives put the same trust in them that they would put in Jesus. Pretty overwhelming for those husbands, I'm sure. But truthful from the viewpoint of at least some of those wives, I am also sure.

Again, thanks for your post.


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## jld

SA, your post is so beautiful! 

They always are, but this one especially so! 

You have such a good heart, SA, and I am so glad you are here. You are a light in the darkness for many people, a hope of what a truly loving, supportive marriage is. Your presence here lifts people.

I think Jesus was that light in the darkness for people. In this selfish world, he was a giver. He gave hope and peace to people. He gave them something to believe in.

Humility and repentance . . . great themes. What woman of good heart can resist a humble man? A man who can crush us, but chooses to lift us and carry us instead?

And what woman can resist a man who is truly sorry for his selfishness, his lack of consideration? To see a man, again, who just by his size can crush you, humble himself to ask your forgiveness? A woman's heart just melts.

I wish people could see the power of humility and repentance.

Jesus just flipped power and the "alpha" male and all that on its head. He showed what true strength was. 

So many men are such a disappointment to their wives. So many women I know take solace in their faith, because real life is such a heavy load for them to carry. They may be married, but they just seem to be carrying their load alone.

At least they have something to believe in.

Thanks again for your post.


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## Mr Blunt

WOW!!!

SA abd JLD did a great job of presenting their views of which I agree.
I have only one thing against SA and JLD; they almost left me with nothing to add!
*Great posts SA and JLD!*

I am going to attempt to add something and it will be based on what SA and JLD alluded to.

*Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?*

I think that when people do a real honest self introspection they find that they could have made some better choices in life and in fact were selfish and hurt others sometime in their life and have gone against God's instructions. . I also think that many believe in a benevolent God. At this point some feel convicted and want to get right with God.

I for one know that I could not make up for what I have done to people and God.* I need grace from the Devine and that is exactly what Jesus did for me and that is a ginormous draw for me! .* I am enormously grateful to Jesus for what He has done. He is my all time hero, even a greater hero than Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther king!


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## HuggyBear

Sandfly said:


> "...you can't be a Christian and be chasing after money..."/QUOTE]
> 
> Jesus wasn't making ANYONE a Christian, and he was only preaching god's ways to ONE people, the Jews. Paul did the rest, Roman conspiracy or not.
> 
> I personally like the teachings of Jesus because he said we are all with faults... prostitutes, usurers, incompassionates, and criminals, EVERYONE, even Judas... and that despite this all, god loves everyone, they are part of his creation, and we must accept and love all, regardless of these faults.
> 
> I also believe in the "not what goes into a man's mouth, but what comes out" bit.
> 
> Also, contrary to what an earlier poster didn't understand, he was an "alpha male", at least according to whatever myth or fairy tale invented "alpha males". Those who were threatened the most by him that had power could not deal with him directly. They had to go higher and higher, until they had some "order" under a far-off, unseen emperor, before they dared to take up the "problem" he created... faced with that, he did not bargain, or even flinch. That's "balls".


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## jld

HuggyBear said:


> Sandfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> "...you can't be a Christian and be chasing after money..."/QUOTE]
> 
> Jesus wasn't making ANYONE a Christian, and he was only preaching god's ways to ONE people, the Jews. Paul did the rest, Roman conspiracy or not.
> 
> I personally like the teachings of Jesus because he said we are all with faults... prostitutes, usurers, incompassionates, and criminals, EVERYONE, even Judas... and that despite this all, god loves everyone, they are part of his creation, and we must accept and love all, regardless of these faults.
> 
> I also believe in the "not what goes into a man's mouth, but what comes out" bit.
> 
> Also, contrary to what an earlier poster didn't understand,* he was an "alpha male", at least according to whatever myth or fairy tale invented "alpha males". Those who were threatened the most by him that had power could not deal with him directly. They had to go higher and higher, until they had some "order" under a far-off, unseen emperor, before they dared to take up the "problem" he created... faced with that, he did not bargain, or even flinch. That's "balls".*
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree with the bolded. I am sorry if I did not explain that clearly in my post. Jesus was a true "alpha," not the fake kind we see encouraged in some literature.
> 
> Thanks for your post.
Click to expand...


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## over20

I am drawn to Jesus because he is God and Man. He died on the cross for my sins. When God looks at me, he sees no sin because of Jesus death for me. Jesus is my Savior, my Beloved Redeemer who sacrificed it all for me.....I can't wait to meet him in Heaven!!


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## arbitrator

SimplyAmorous said:


> All of the above...
> 
> Even if one doesn't believe in Jesus... I think we all want others to live his Parables -his ETHICS... if you will. What else really moves people but a compassion that goes beyond our own.
> 
> Humility is seen as weak to most people... but if it is balanced with a valiant spirit (lionhearted, heroic, courageousness)...then something happens....you stand in awe..with great respect.
> 
> He Had THAT going on ..or his story surely leaves behind...
> 
> I am drawn to people of character, those who show a genuineness in how they live their lives & handle their relationships.....when you can count on their word...not just to flatter in a moment, then forget you exist the next day or joke back.. "Oh you thought I meant that?"....
> 
> Making mistakes... being human ...we can't get away from that....but having the fortitude to go to the person you hurt, seek reconciliation/ mercy...determined to make it right "Leaving that gift at the alter' type thing....this is good, in line with Jesus teachings..love those sort of people...so I would also Love the Teacher of such ways..... no one needs to be perfect...it's all in the attitude, our motivations......the willingness to rise above where we are, own our own hand..
> 
> Jesus and Sinners...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is just something about a *repentant heart*... isn't there...all of us screw up, we do things we shouldn't...speak harshly in a moment against someone...I think our conscience knows we are only hurting ourselves when we continue in this.. Jesus represents being able to find acceptance -no matter where we have been.. That's some pretty deep sh** depending on where we have BEEN.
> 
> Sometimes I feel those who have hit the gutters of life are more in tuned to this magnificent forgiveness & have a deeper appreciation for it over those who haven't been in those trenches & come out of it..Like Mary Magdalene...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. List of Parables
> 
> So many... some that stand out to me.... The Prodigal son... the Good Samaritan.... Prayer of the Pharisee & tax Collector...Persistent Widow & Unjust Judge... Wise & the foolish builders... The Parable of the Un merciful Servant....just so many ...deep messages for our daily living...
> 
> I have to say this though... one my husband does not like....the widow & the 2 mites....anytime he hears this, he gets the idea God expects us to starve and give our last penny, like we should live on the streets like Paupers/ Hare Krishna's hanging at airports or something...... he rarely comes to church with me & when he does, it's like a running Joke that the widow & her penny will be in the sermon...


*SA: All that I can say is a hearty "Amen!" from a card-carrying United Methodist!*


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## arbitrator

*But you've got to largely remember that when "the Flesh became Word," it was the mystique of that Word that literally drew people to Him, because God came to this world as no one had ever expected Him to*.


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## 2ntnuf

Because he got consistent, steady results. A whole people came against the Christians. These were the most feared and respected minds of the times, who came against them. They gave Christianity the creedence it needed to flourish, whether you are an atheist or not. 

"There must be something to this new religion. :scratchhead: Let's find out what is so important, folks will give their very lives, the most important thing they have, just to be a part of it."

What was it? Finding that, will answer your questions.


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## Jellybeans

Why? Who knows. 

That was an apocalyptic time they were living in so I imagine that Jesus coming along to preach of hope was a big factor in it. The Jews were getting shuffled around to and fro and people always want something good to hear. 

I imagine he was very charismatic but w/o having lived in the time, it's hard to say what he was like, etc. 

Nonetheless, he started a movement that generated a huge following.


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## Jellybeans

HuggyBear said:


> Jesus wasn't making ANYONE a Christian, and he was only preaching god's ways to ONE people, the Jews. Paul did the rest, Roman conspiracy or not.


:iagree:

And don't forget about Constantine's role in Christianity, cementing it as a major religion for a country.

I like to think that Jesus was a cool cat. I think I would have quite liked him. I do not imagine he was blonde and blue-eyed like those depictions show over and over again. I bet he had lovely caramel skin and was tall (in my mind, anyway).


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## jld

Jellybeans said:


> I like to think that Jesus was a cool cat. I think I would have quite liked him.*I do not imagine he was blonde and blue-eyed like those depictions show over and over again.* I bet he had lovely caramel skin and was tall (in my mind, anyway).


:rofl:


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## Jellybeans

Well, it's true.

Not sure why that was so funny though I am glad I could make you laugh. Lol


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## 2ntnuf

Jellybeans said:


> Why? Who knows.
> 
> That was an apocalyptic time they were living in so I imagine that Jesus coming along to preach of *hope* was a big factor in it. The Jews were getting shuffled around to and fro and people always want something good to hear.
> 
> I imagine he was very charismatic but w/o having lived in the time, it's hard to say what he was like, etc.
> 
> Nonetheless, he started a movement that generated a huge following.


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## jld

Jellybeans said:


> Well, it's true.
> 
> Not sure why that was so funny though I am glad I could make you laugh. Lol


I have just thought the same thing so many times about the Virgin Mary. Like she was born in Germany, and not Israel!

All the nativity scenes around here (including the one from my childhood, which is labeled Made in West Germany, lol) have her a blue-eyed blonde! Lol!


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## GTdad

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have to say this though... one my husband does not like....the widow & the 2 mites....anytime he hears this, he gets the idea God expects us to starve and give our last penny, like we should live on the streets like Paupers/ Hare Krishna's hanging at airports or something...... he rarely comes to church with me & when he does, it's like a running Joke that the widow & her penny will be in the sermon...


I have a different take on that. Jesus just got through tearing into the religious leadership for, among other things, taking advantage of widows, to the point of seizing their houses. Widows, and orphans, were the most vulnerable people in society at that time, and Jesus made a point of saying that we needed to look out for them and help them. 

He then mentioned the widow and her two last copper coins. Unlike other situations, he didn't praise her faith or anything of the sort, he just made a factual statement that she relatively gave far more than the rich.

To me, he was pointedly commenting and condemning a system where the poorest of the poor were made to feel obligated to give everything they had, while the rich still coasted.

I have a tough time spiritually. I find huge Truth in the words of Jesus, but there's so much I can't bring myself to buy into.

I can't wrap my head around God's requirement (and I'm tempted to put it into quotes) that blood be shed for our sins, when God could have, had He chose to do so, prevented sin from ever entering into the world in the first place.

Free will. Great. Choose poorly and you'll spend all eternity in a redhot cauldron of boiling urine. I can't and won't buy that, and unfortunately Jesus does touch upon eternal punishment, together with the concept that the only way to heaven is through him. Sorry folks in Papua New Guinea who are wholly ignorant of the tribe two valleys over, let alone Jesus.

But in spite of some hard-core reservations there is, like I said, a huge Truth there. Just wish I could figure it all out.

Feels good to vent about it, and please noone take this as an attack on their faith. I feel very strongly about leaving people to their beliefs, and just as strongly about people who attack those beliefs. I'm just talking about things I struggle with, and have for a long time.


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## 2ntnuf

Jellybeans said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And don't forget about Constantine's role in Christianity, cementing it as a major religion for a country.
> 
> I like to think that Jesus was a cool cat. I think I would have quite liked him. I do not imagine he was blonde and blue-eyed like those depictions show over and over again. I bet he had lovely caramel skin and was tall (in my mind, anyway).


I think he was a short Jewish guy with black hair and dark brown eyes. I think his skin was possibly olive colored if not caramel. I think his personality was calm, yet strong and not afraid of conflict. I believe he chose his battles wisely and only let things go when he knew his opponent did not get the message. I believe he was not a caretaker, but a man of his own, who lived and let live, only correcting those who would hear his words and warning those who listened, but would not hear. I believe he lived on donations from secret wealthy followers and helped the "poor". I believe these poor were not limited to those without money as many believe. I believe he corrected the ruling religious authorities where they were inconsistent with the intent of the religion and the proud, wealthy authorities could not set aside their pride, prestige and power to follow what they knew in their hearts was true. 

Quite an interesting person, was Jesus and, yes, I do believe he was very attractive to many, but not necessarily in appearance. There is a passage somewhere that is consistent with my thoughts on his appearance being average. His beauty was his mind and spirit, his love and forgiveness, his honor and justice, his fresh perspective(which really was not fresh, but a clarification on the original which had been distorted over time).


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## jld

GTdad said:


> I have a different take on that. Jesus just got through tearing into the religious leadership for, among other things, taking advantage of widows, to the point of seizing their houses. Widows, and orphans, were the most vulnerable people in society at that time, and Jesus made a point of saying that we needed to look out for them and help them.
> 
> He then mentioned the widow and her two last copper coins. Unlike other situations, he didn't praise her faith or anything of the sort, he just made a factual statement that she relatively gave far more than the rich.
> 
> To me, he was pointedly commenting and condemning a system where the poorest of the poor were made to feel obligated to give everything they had, while the rich still coasted.


We have the same problem with the rich today.

GTDad, just take what works for you from Jesus and leave the rest. I am inspired by his words, but unimpressed with religion in general. Way too much emphasis on money.


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## 2ntnuf

The coin given by the widow wasn't a commentary on how much we should give in the sense of money. It was the meaning behind what she gave. 

I don't know if this is what you said GT. I didn't quite understand. 

When asked about taxes, Jesus said something like, "who's image is on the coin?" When told Caesar's, which answered a rhetorical question, he commented something like, "Give to Caesar what is his and to God what is God's." Well, what I take out of that is, God isn't so concerned with what we have here on earth, he's more concerned with how we love each other. Someone has to be wealthy and someone poor. There are many in between. That's not what God is about. He's about what we do with our wealth or lack of it. How do we treat each other? 

So, when the poor woman gave and the rich gave, the comparison was on the impact on the life of the poor woman, versus the rich. While the rich gave a larger sum of money, it barely made an impact in their life, but the poor woman had to struggle to figure out how she was going to eat and pay for anything she needed, and once she did, she gave all she had. She didn't give that to make herself suffer, but because she understood that there were others who might benefit in her gift, by being shown their God and his ways, through evangelism or the purchase of sacrificial animals and candles, cloths and clothing, etc. She did not have to give any, but chose of her own free will, to help at her own great expense, others. 

The message parallels Christ's sacrifice. He did not have to give his life, being beaten severely, spat on, mocked and verbally abused. He did not have to allow them to pound wrought iron spikes through(we think his wrists)hands and feet(maybe heel bones as there is evidence of this). He could have backed off and it all would have been fine and dandy. That's what the Jewish authorities were asking. Just back off and let us be in charge as has been the case for years. 

Therefore, it was his choice to continue to push them to a point they had to make a decision. "Do we follow him or do we try to discredit him and get rid of him?" They chose the latter, since their pride and lack of trust that he was telling the truth, which was a great deal different than what they believed. The authorities could have chosen to throw him in prison or place him in exile. They could have asked the Romans to take him to Italy. Many things could have happened.


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## 2ntnuf

Understand though, that is where forgiveness comes in the picture. God knows we cannot live up to the very high standards he set, so He gives us forgiveness, if we ask for it. That's the point of it all. He only asks each of us to do our personal best and realise we aren't perfect. Some are closer than others, but with forgiveness, we are all looked at as equal. We live within the means we have physical, emotional and mental capacity to understand. His grace, which is a gift that we cannot pay for, is what brings us to the perfection necessary for entrance into heaven, the ultimate place to live. This reward is not deserved by any human, only through forgiveness are we presented with what we think we deserve.


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## ConanHub

jld said:


> Was it his compassion . . . his truthfulness . . . his simplicity?
> 
> If you had been living in Israel at that time, what would have drawn you to him?


I don't think a lot of people were drawn to him. The majority might have thought him a novelty and many went to him for healing, but when the chips were down there was hardly anyone in his cheering section.

Even after his resurrection, there were comparatively few disciples when you look at how many lives he touched.

I think He is pretty despised today by a majority, even those that would claim Christianity do not like many of his teachings, or follow them, I am talking about clerical leaders here too.

If I was in Israel at the time He was on earth, I would have liked some of his teachings but would not have bothered to go see him.

I would have thought him a good intentioned weirdo and when He was crucified, I would have been sorry, but I would have thought "it was bound to happen".

After his resurrection and growth of the Christian faith, I would have become very curious and tried to find out more, until I too became a Christian.

I am attracted to Him because He is my God. I believe He is perfect and I love every aspect of Him.

He is the only true alpha in my book. 

Thanks for the thread.


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## jld

ConanHub said:


> He is the only true alpha in my book.


:iagree:

I am glad you enjoyed the thread, Conan.


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## joe kidd

No idea. My guess is he was saying what people wanted to hear at the time. 

Why are people drawn to anybody? Jim Jones comes to mind. To this day I don't understand that one.


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## SimplyAmorous

GTdad said:


> I have a different take on that. Jesus just got through tearing into the religious leadership for, among other things, taking advantage of widows, to the point of seizing their houses. *Widows, and orphans, were the most vulnerable people in society at that time, and Jesus made a point of saying that we needed to look out for them and help them*.
> 
> *He then mentioned the widow and her two last copper coins. Unlike other situations, he didn't praise her faith or anything of the sort, he just made a factual statement that she relatively gave far more than the rich*.
> 
> *To me, he was pointedly commenting and condemning a system where the poorest of the poor were made to feel obligated to give everything they had, while the rich still coasted*.


 you are definitely looking at the parable in the right light here, as it was meant ......my husband isn't......he's never cracked a Bible open...of course this is the message ...which also goes along with these scriptures too.....


> *2 Corinthians 8: 14*:And here is my advice about what is best for you in this matter: Last year you were the first not only to give but also to have the desire to do so. Now finish the work, so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it, *according to your means*. For if the willingness is there, *the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have. Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. *At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality,”





> *Gtdad said: *
> *I have a tough time spiritually. I find huge Truth in the words of Jesus, but there's so much I can't bring myself to buy into.
> 
> I can't wrap my head around God's requirement (and I'm tempted to put it into quotes) that blood be shed for our sins, when God could have, had He chose to do so, prevented sin from ever entering into the world in the first place*.


I don't believe in the Original Sin doctrine either...neither did Pelagius in a raging Church debate against St Augustine.... I'd say Religion was like Politics back then, just cause someone won didn't make them RIGHT... but really..this reduces Jesus to just a MAN.. this is one among other reasons I can't call myself a christian! 

You may enjoy this article..to give a little more understanding to some of Church history.....I tend to feel this way .. Why Pelagius was Right



> *Free will. Great. Choose poorly and you'll spend all eternity in a redhot cauldron of boiling urine. I can't and won't buy that, and unfortunately Jesus does touch upon eternal punishment*


Enter







...

Calvanists vs the Arminians ....














> *together with the concept that the only way to heaven is through him. Sorry folks in Papua New Guinea who are wholly ignorant of the tribe two valleys over, let alone Jesus*.


 Christians would quote Romans for this...for those who have never heard... they will be judged by their conscience..

But what that really spells out... if true... is ANYONE WHO HAS HEARD will be judged on what was written... but I find this too stringent myself.. what if a man's whole experience was clouded by horrendous believers, maybe a Pastor Father who was a hypocrite, emotionally abused by his hands...or the Priests who molest.. anyone who grows up in a situation like this is going to turn their eyes & hearts as far from religion as one could throw..I do believe a merciful God will take every situation into consideration.. 



> *Romans 2* .....*12* All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. *13 *For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. *14 *(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. *15* They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)





> *But in spite of some hard-core reservations there is, like I said, a huge Truth there. Just wish I could figure it all out*.


 Join the crowd GTdad.. that's why I am DEIST ...

Read my post here (#24) http://talkaboutmarriage.com/politics-religion/139209-what-church-faith-you-2.html .....can you relate... 



> *Feels good to vent about it, and please noone take this as an attack on their faith. I feel very strongly about leaving people to their beliefs, and just as strongly about people who attack those beliefs. I'm just talking about things I struggle with, and have for a long time*.


You have a good spirit about you..I feel the same... Most of my friends are Christians...they are good people..


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## Mr Blunt

> No idea. My guess is he was saying what people wanted to hear at the time.


You are right you have no idea.. Jesus would not back down from anyone and some of the Pharisees and the Romans killed Him because they did not like what He said.





> Why are people drawn to anybody? Jim Jones comes to mind. To this day I don't understand that one.


J

im Jones was a child molester and a man with a very sick mind that killed little children.

The below is what Jesus said of children:

Matthew 18 
New Living Translation (NLT)
The Greatest in the Kingdom
18 About that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?”

2 Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. 3 Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. 4 So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.
5 “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf[a] is welcoming me. 6 But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.

*Comparing Jim Jones to Jesus is ridiculous!*


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## Jellybeans

I don't think Joe was meaning to be offensive. He was simply stating that people were drawn to both Jesus and Jim Jones. 

That is a fact, no matter how you slice it, no matter how different they were, they both do share that similarity. That cannot be argued.

(Now that aside, my personal opinion, Jesus for the win).


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## joe kidd

Mr Blunt said:


> You are right you have no idea.. Jesus would not back down from anyone and some of the Pharisees and the Romans killed Him because they did not like what He said.
> 
> 
> 
> J
> 
> im Jones was a child molester and a man with a very sick mind that killed little children.
> 
> The below is what Jesus said of children:
> 
> Matthew 18
> New Living Translation (NLT)
> The Greatest in the Kingdom
> 18 About that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?”
> 
> 2 Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. 3 Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. 4 So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.
> 5 “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf[a] is welcoming me. 6 But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.
> 
> *Comparing Jim Jones to Jesus is ridiculous!*


Didn't mean to hit a nerve guy. The question is why were people drawn to him. Why are people drawn to anybody? BTW Bible quotes do nothing for me. The church left a sour taste in my mouth long ago.


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## Jellybeans

You shouldn't leave, Joe. Stay!


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## joe kidd

Jellybeans said:


> You shouldn't leave, Joe. Stay!


I edited. Sorry he took my post out of context. Don't recall stating Jesus and Jim Jones were one in the same.

I will take partial blame just for the fact I ventured into the Spirituality forum. LOL


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## Jellybeans

joe kidd said:


> I edited. Sorry he took my post out of context. Don't recall stating Jesus and Jim Jones were one in the same.
> 
> *I will take partial blame just for the fact I ventured into the Spirituality forum. LOL*


:rofl:


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## Mr Blunt

> *Quote of Joe Kidd
> Didn't mean to hit a nerve guy. The question is why were people drawn to him. Why are people drawn to anybody? BTW Bible quotes do nothing for me. The church left a sour taste in my mouth long ago.*


Joe
I have read some of your other posts on Christianity and I got the impression that you have a sour taste for Christianity. So when you used Jim Jones to show a similarity to Jesus I took that as a derogatory statement towards Christ. Yes they both drew people to them but the longevity of thier appeal tells the real true story. How many people will follow Jim Jones and how many people still follow Jesus? *I could be wrong about your taste for christianiy, Am I?*

Joe, if you meant nothing sour about your Jim Jones---Jesus similarities then I apologize.

We do have something in common Joe. I have had a few churches leave a sour taste in mouth also. That is why churches do not define Christ for me. I am fortunate in that I no longer alow any man to tell me about my spirit and my beliefs about God. I do a lot better about not letting other people taint the truth and strength of Jesus. I learned the hard way because I put the so called super religious people up on the spiritual plane higher than I should have.

My beliefs in Jesus come from scriptures, applying His principles, and living life for over 50 years to se how they worked out. I have found that Christ’s ways are far superior to other ways and that is based on faith and actual experiences in life.

Years ago I was a frequent visitor of the taverns in my home town and I have been in all kinds of churches for decades.* I have found good and bad in both and finally decided to forget basing my spiritual beliefs on other people but learned, and applied Jesus priciples, and observe life for myself.*

I do empathize with you on the churches putting a sour taste in your mouth. We are comrades in that we both have had some pure lemon juice poured down our throat. However, that just made me moiré independent from the so called religious authorities. I now sometimes use them as a supplement to my base and can easily throw out any sour lemon juice. Sometimes they are helpful but they can no longer pour any lemon juice down my throat.


*If you meant nothing derogatory about using Jim Jones and Jesus in your post then again I do apologize.*

Blunt


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