# Ways to help wife emotionally reattach? (newbie)



## GasRN

2 months ago I discovered my wife's affair. It began as an emotional affair and progressed to sexual. By happenstance I discovered it relatively early (6mo into affair, 1 week into sexual). My wife has ended this affair with the OM, but due to occupation still must interact with him (coworker, not boss, etc). There is little to no chance for job change for either of them due to occupation. Since the discovery and ending of the affair, my wife states that she is doing well maintaining boundaries with this OM.

In the wake of the discovery, we have each been in individual counseling as well as joint counseling. She has revealed that she has become emotionally detached from me over the last few years. We have been together for 14yrs, married for 11. During the last few years I had no indication that she was detaching emotionally. We spoke about not only the logistics of our marriage (schedules, kid, etc), but also plans, hopes, etc. Her physical/sexual presence was consistent throughout. She hid not only her detachment as it progressed, but her affair very well. She has admitted she consciously made efforts to conceal both to appear as if no changes had occurred. 

At the time of the affair discovery, she had emotionally attached more to the other man than to me. She states she never "loved" him, but all of her descriptions of the relationship point to it.

At present we are trying to rebuild our marriage, but she is having a difficult time reattaching. I am trying to give her space and time. Our formerly very active sex life has stopped "cold turkey". She wishes to abstain from all sexual activity until she can emotionally reattach.

Questions for those who have been through this (particularly the wives who have been in her position):

1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?

2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?

Thank you all for any insight you may have.


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## Mr Right

GasRN said:


> 2 months ago I discovered my wife's affair. It began as an emotional affair and progressed to sexual. By happenstance I discovered it relatively early (6mo into affair, 1 week into sexual). My wife has ended this affair with the OM, but due to occupation still must interact with him (coworker, not boss, etc). There is little to no chance for job change for either of them due to occupation. Since the discovery and ending of the affair, my wife states that she is doing well maintaining boundaries with this OM.
> 
> In the wake of the discovery, we have each been in individual counseling as well as joint counseling. She has revealed that she has become emotionally detached from me over the last few years. We have been together for 14yrs, married for 11. During the last few years I had no indication that she was detaching emotionally. We spoke about not only the logistics of our marriage (schedules, kid, etc), but also plans, hopes, etc. Her physical/sexual presence was consistent throughout. She hid not only her detachment as it progressed, but her affair very well. She has admitted she consciously made efforts to conceal both to appear as if no changes had occurred.
> 
> At the time of the affair discovery, she had emotionally attached more to the other man than to me. She states she never "loved" him, but all of her descriptions of the relationship point to it.
> 
> At present we are trying to rebuild our marriage, but she is having a difficult time reattaching. I am trying to give her space and time. Our formerly very active sex life has stopped "cold turkey". She wishes to abstain from all sexual activity until she can emotionally reattach.
> 
> Questions for those who have been through this (particularly the wives who have been in her position):
> 
> 1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?
> 
> 2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?
> 
> Thank you all for any insight you may have.


Welcome to TAM. It's not a good idea to "Rug Sweep" your wife's affair and she should (if she wants to keep the marriage) be made to do the heavy lifting to show you how much she wants to keep you and your marriage. Also I don't want to sound bad but I highly doubt that she was into a 6 month affair and only slept with the POS OM a week before being caught, she was just "Gaslighting" you to believe that.

If you want your wife to reconnect, IMO YOU need to work on yourself and become the man your wife and most men want to be. I have found this "system" to be a good help, and it also covers affairs.

Nymphomaniac Wife | Hot Wife With High Sex Drive | More Intimacy | Marriage Relationship


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## brendanoco

How do you know the affair is over? how did you discover the affair?


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## GasRN

brendanoco said:


> How do you know the affair is over? how did you discover the affair?



I have only her word, and the reassurance from the counselors we are each seeing that she has truly ended it.

To describe the discovery is a lengthy proces, but the "Cliff Notes" version is this: I updated the MAC OS software on our desktop and did not know that all iChat texts from both our phones would flow through it unedited. While fiddling with new computer/software, I noticed the feature, opened the stream and discovered texts going back to early August 2014. The tone/content heated up around mid/late Spetember, and the discussions about the sex were literally the last few things in the stream. At that point I confronted my wife.


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## Vulcan2013

She is not having sex with you because she is being "faithful" to the OM. if she wanted to reattach, she would have sex with you. 

She's making it sound reasonable, she "tried", and she can leave you after a respectable amount of time. 

Sorry. Read some of the other threads. One especially by RoadScholar.


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## jld

Mr Right said:


> Welcome to TAM. It's not a good idea to "Rug Sweep" your wife's affair and she should (if she wants to keep the marriage) be made to do the heavy lifting to show you how much she wants to keep you and your marriage. Also I don't want to sound bad but I highly doubt that she was into a 6 month affair and only slept with the POS OM a week before being caught, she was just "Gaslighting" you to believe that.
> 
> If you want your wife to reconnect, IMO YOU need to work on yourself and become the man your wife and most men want to be. I have found this "system" to be a good help, and it also covers affairs.
> 
> Nymphomaniac Wife | Hot Wife With High Sex Drive | More Intimacy | Marriage Relationship


The link looks like an ad. Could you give us the jist of the program, MR?


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## stunned

You will NEVER be able to fully kill this affair, and any lingering feelings she has for him while they work together. She must never see him again. Ever. That's a basic and necessary rule of reconciliation. She's having a hard time reattaching to you because she is still pining over him. She will not and cannot stop thinking about him and wanting him until he is COMPLETELY out of her life. She must change jobs. There is no way around this.
ANY attempt at reconciliation is pointless until this happens.


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## brendanoco

GasRN said:


> I have only her word, and the reassurance from the counselors we are each seeing that she has truly ended it.
> 
> To describe the discovery is a lengthy proces, but the "Cliff Notes" version is this: I updated the MAC OS software on our desktop and did not know that all iChat texts from both our phones would flow through it unedited. While fiddling with new computer/software, I noticed the feature, opened the stream and discovered texts going back to early August 2014. The tone/content heated up around mid/late Spetember, and the discussions about the sex were literally the last few things in the stream. At that point I confronted my wife.


Dont believe a word she says 
do you have access to her email or phone? 
could you have access to them anytime you want?


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## GasRN

brendanoco said:


> Dont believe a word she says
> do you have access to her email or phone?
> could you have access to them anytime you want?


I do have access to both and have seen no electronic communication.


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## ThePheonix

Sorry my man but you know what they say about humpty dumpty. What you call losing emotional attachment is really losing romantic interest. Hence the reason she wants nothing to do with you sexually. Additionally, if she did give you a mercy F, she'd be cheating on the man she really cares about. 
You're right is thinking she loves the other man and chances are, if they haven't gone underground, she'll likely get back together with him in the near future. 
You may as will face it, your marriage is road kill. She lost interest in you long before the boyfriend came along. She found a replacement for the well that dried up at home. Your either going to have to get comfortable with rejection or leave your ego at the door and seek the truth on what you're dealing with. You need an alternate plan that doesn't include her. Elvis has left the building Dawg.


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## brendanoco

GasRN said:


> I do have access to both and have seen no electronic communication.


is the om married?


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## stunned

Honestly, first off, you have no idea if this affair is even over. Have you looked at her phone? Text logs? Facebook? Has she given you passwords to everything and opened up every facet of her life to you? If not, then she's not serious about R. Considering they still work together, there's almost a 0% chance the affair has actually ended. 
You must verify that the affair is dead. Taking her word for it is useless. After all, she lied to you for the past 6 months. You never trust a cheater. Put a voice activated recorder in her car and see if she's talking to him there. Pull up current text and call logs from your cell phone provider.


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## stunned

GasRN said:


> I do have access to both and have seen no electronic communication.


Use a voice activated recorder in her car. There's a good chance she has acquired a burner phone so you won't see any evidence. Never underestimate a cheater....


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## GasRN

brendanoco said:


> is the om married?


no. From hearing her recounts both at home and in counseling sessions, he played her. Friendship at first, tweaked her interest and said the right things and she fell right in step. Slowly built up the interest within her until the sex finally happened.


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## Chaparral

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/121442-no-sex-after-her-affair.html

Here is the link to road scholar's thread.

The others are 100 percent right, this affair ain't over. If she cant leave the job you may as well file divorce. She quit having sex with you because she no longer has a secret to hide. She is being faithful to her lover.

Get a pen var and put in her purse. You can get one from brickhouse security among others like amazon.

This is typical cheaters following a common cheater script.

Is he married and have you exposed this affair to his and her friends, family, family and work?

Get the two books linked to below. You need MMSLP immediately. You already sound like a gut with nice guy syndrome. Check out this link and see if it applies.

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Good luck


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## GasRN

stunned said:


> Use a voice activated recorder in her car. There's a good chance she has acquired a burner phone so you won't see any evidence. Never underestimate a cheater....


I have monitored both cell records and and text logs (unedited stream) since the discovery. I am the adminstrator for our cell plan, so cell log access is easy. There have been no calls nor texts. She does not have a hidden phone (yes, I checked), nor any other apps on her phone for covert communication (also checked). 

She has been accountable for her whereabouts each day (leaving work, etc). I have a GPS tracker on her phone that shows no deviation form where she is going (work/gym, etc). So far her accountability checks out from the electronic evesdropping perspective.


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## farsidejunky

The affair is still going on. I smell BS on the denying sex. Sorry, brother.


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## jld

GasRN said:


> no. From hearing her recounts both at home and in counseling sessions, he played her. Friendship at first, tweaked her interest and said the right things and she fell right in step. Slowly built up the interest within her until the sex finally happened.


Do you think affairs really just happen, OP? Do you think there is no power of choice involved?

I agree with your idea of seeking to reconnect emotionally, btw. I don't think you can have a true reconciliation without that. 

But as much as love is important in reconciliation, I think truthfulness is, too. I think her admitting that she made some conscious choices in that affair is part of being truthful.


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## Chaparral

GasRN said:


> no. From hearing her recounts both at home and in counseling sessions, he played her. Friendship at first, tweaked her interest and said the right things and she fell right in step. Slowly built up the interest within her until the sex finally happened.


She fell in love with him. She literally gave up everything for him. It would still be going on if you had not caught it. Now you think she can work with a man she loves, seeing him every day and will get over him? The clincher is she cut you off to remain faithful to him and show you in her own way what she thinks of you.


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## Chaparral

GasRN said:


> I have monitored both cell records and and text logs (unedited stream) since the discovery. I am the adminstrator for our cell plan, so cell log access is easy. There have been no calls nor texts. She does not have a hidden phone (yes, I checked), nor any other apps on her phone for covert communication (also checked).
> 
> She has been accountable for her whereabouts each day (leaving work, etc). I have a GPS tracker on her phone that shows no deviation form where she is going (work/gym, etc). So far her accountability checks out from the electronic evesdropping perspective.


THEY WORK TOGETHER, why would they need a phone or any other electronic device?


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## stunned

GasRN said:


> I have monitored both cell records and and text logs (unedited stream) since the discovery. I am the adminstrator for our cell plan, so cell log access is easy. There have been no calls nor texts. She does not have a hidden phone (yes, I checked), nor any other apps on her phone for covert communication (also checked).
> 
> She has been accountable for her whereabouts each day (leaving work, etc). I have a GPS tracker on her phone that shows no deviation form where she is going (work/gym, etc). So far her accountability checks out from the electronic evesdropping perspective.


...and yet she still is distant with you. Typically, if the WS is serious about R, you would go through a period of hyper-sexual activity, frequently called "hysterical bonding", which is her (and your) way of reconnecting. She has done nothing like this. So far the signs that you are seeing are good in terms of her communication and whereabouts, but there is obviously something still missing. Alot of it has to do with the fact that she still sees him. I'm pretty sure everyone here at TAM that has been around a bit will agree with me when I say that is is absolutely imperative that she ends ALL contact with him. This is typically the first step of reconciliation. She has not done that yet, and until she does, I'm afraid all of your R efforts will only result in failure and pain. She has to quit her job. Immediately. Every day that she sees him brings you another day closer to losing her.


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## G.J.

So sorry you find your self here

If they work together for the same company I'm afraid *you stand no chance of R* as she has been emotionally attached to her AP and is and possibly *still* having sex with him as her mind is in a place where normal thinking can not and will not take place.
Think of it as a drug, she has to be weaned of it and as they are working in the same company she's still getting a little of her fix
Read other posts and you will see.

What is the company's policy on this kind of conduct?

VAR her car.

GPS on phone ...she can leave it and pick it up later

GPS car

you need to find out what she does at lunch time

you need to know if she takes a half day

you need to know where the OM lives as if she can not be traced at anytime you can instantly check if she's there


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## GasRN

jld said:


> Do you think affairs really just happen, OP? Do you think there is no power of choice involved?
> 
> I agree with your idea of seeking to reconnect emotionally, btw. I don't think you can have a true reconciliation without that.
> 
> But as much as love is important in reconciliation, I think truthfulness is, too. I think her admitting that she made some conscious choices in that affair is part of being truthful.



She has admitted, both to me in private, in joint counseling sessions, and in her personal therapy sessions (what little bit my counselor can relay) that she knowingly went along and strayed. She has taken accountability for her actions and by accounts from all counselors (that I can gather) she becomes very emotional/breaks down when describing the affair to them. This I see at home as well when we talk.

I have looked at this both objectively and subjectively. It does appear that her affair is over, but her attachment to him has not fully abated. 

Without disclosing what we each do occupationally, suffice it to say its medically related. The objective view of this comes from my professional background.


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## GasRN

stunned said:


> ...and yet she still is distant with you. Typically, if the WS is serious about R, you would go through a period of hyper-sexual activity, frequently called "hysterical bonding", which is her (and your) way of reconnecting. She has done nothing like this. So far the signs that you are seeing are good in terms of her communication and whereabouts, but there is obviously something still missing. Alot of it has to do with the fact that she still sees him. I'm pretty sure everyone here at TAM that has been around a bit will agree with me when I say that is is absolutely imperative that she ends ALL contact with him. This is typically the first step of reconciliation. She has not done that yet, and until she does, I'm afraid all of your R efforts will only result in failure and pain. She has to quit her job. Immediately. Every day that she sees him brings you another day closer to losing her.



While I cannot get into the specifics of what we each do, suffice it to say that we each work in an environment that is not easy to find time to "stray" at work. There is little contact with coworkers during work hours, but you have potential to see each other sparingly throughout the day. It is also not easy to just quit and find a replacement position.


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## Jellybeans

farsidejunky said:


> The affair is still going on. I smell BS on the denying sex. Sorry, brother.


I'm inclined to think this, too.

The no sex and the fact they still work together is not good. Not good at all.

As long as he is a present force in her life, you have no marriage to rebuild.

For a woman, my opinion is that an emotional affair is BAD (bad news to the marriage). An emotional affair that goes physical is a MOLOTOV c0cktail.


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## GasRN

G.J. said:


> So sorry you find your self here
> 
> If they work together for the same company I'm afraid *you stand no chance of R* as she has been emotionally attached to her AP and is and possibly *still* having sex with him as her mind is in a place where normal thinking can not and will not take place.
> Think of it as a drug, she has to be weaned of it and as they are working in the same company she's still getting a little of her fix
> Read other posts and you will see.
> 
> What is the company's policy on this kind of conduct?
> 
> VAR her car.
> 
> GPS on phone ...she can leave it and pick it up later
> 
> GPS car
> 
> you need to find out what she does at lunch time
> 
> you need to know if she takes a half day
> 
> you need to know where the OM lives as if she can not be traced at anytime you can instantly check if she's there


GPS on phone shows her where she says she is, and checks out with timed work logs (cannot disclose more about that, sorry).

I know location of AP residence, and she has not been there since GPS software placed on phone.

Lunch is onsite and usually not more than 15 min in a very public/common area, and is about the only time they could even interact at work.

half days are not an option.


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## Jellybeans

Is AP married/partnered?


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## jld

GasRN said:


> She has admitted, both to me in private, in joint counseling sessions, and in her personal therapy sessions (what little bit my counselor can relay) that she knowingly went along and strayed. She has taken accountability for her actions and by accounts from all counselors (that I can gather) she becomes very emotional/breaks down when describing the affair to them. This I see at home as well when we talk.
> 
> I have looked at this both objectively and subjectively. It does appear that her affair is over, but her attachment to him has not fully abated.
> 
> Without disclosing what we each do occupationally, suffice it to say its medically related. The objective view of this comes from my professional background.


I know it would be hard, but I really think it would be worthwhile to consider having both of you quit your jobs and move and get jobs elsewhere. It is going to be very hard for her to free herself mentally from him if she continues to see him.

There is a cost to reconciliation. If both of you truly want to do it, I think you're going to have to pay its price.


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## Jellybeans

jld said:


> I know it would be hard, but I really think it would be worthwhile to consider having both of you quit your jobs and move and get jobs elsewhere.


Why should he have to quit his job? I can see why she should, but not him.


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## Chaparral

GasRN said:


> She has admitted, both to me in private, in joint counseling sessions, and in her personal therapy sessions (what little bit my counselor can relay) that she knowingly went along and strayed. She has taken accountability for her actions and by accounts from all counselors (that I can gather) she becomes very emotional/breaks down when describing the affair to them. This I see at home as well when we talk.
> 
> I have looked at this both objectively and subjectively. It does appear that her affair is over, but her attachment to him has not fully abated.
> 
> Without disclosing what we each do occupationally, suffice it to say its medically related. The objective view of this comes from my professional background.


I was going to ask if she was a nurse or a teacher. Who have you exposed this to?

Actually, all advise to help you is moot until they are no longer see each other under any circumstances. The two of you have to figure out if your marriage/family or her job is the most important thing. I'm guessing she will pick her job and the other man.

The horrible fact is that no matter what they say or do they are still together as long as they are seeing each other. Counseling and anything else you do is a waste of time at this point.

Since she is not on board with the marriage, read the mmslp book linked to below, follow the map plan to improve yourself i.e. become the man she fell in love with as opposed to the domesticated version you are now. Also go to this link, The Healing Heart: The 180 and get on with your life.

Let her know you cant save this with her working there and that you will be seeing your lawyer to start the divorce process.


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## G.J.

GasRN said:


> While I cannot get into the specifics of what we each do, suffice it to say that we each work in an environment that is not easy to find time to "stray" at work. There is little contact with coworkers during work hours, but you have potential to see each other sparingly throughout the day. It is also not easy to just quit and find a replacement position.


You put her money/job before the R then the chances are goodbye wife i'm afraid...just read other posts

She has not detached and will not until NC becomes NC

Its like looking at a needle every day with your favourite drug


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## jld

Jellybeans said:


> Why should he have to quit his job? I can see why she should, but not him.


He doesn't *have* to do anything.

Without more details, it is hard to know just what may be required. If both of them work in a hospital, and it's the only big hospital around, it may just be easier to move and get jobs elsewhere.


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## Observer

OP consider that perhaps the OM ended the affair after sex. She could still be emotionally attached to him, hence the way she is with you. That would be troubling as it means nothing has really changed with you two. You are waiting for her to come around when she is waiting for him to come around...it's all bad. Has she been remorseful? How can you trust what she is telling you...


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## Jellybeans

G.J. said:


> She has not detached and will not until NC becomes NC
> 
> *Its like looking at a needle every day with your favourite drug*


Yep.


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## TBT

GasRN said:


> I have monitored both cell records and and text logs (unedited stream) since the discovery. I am the adminstrator for our cell plan, so cell log access is easy. There have been no calls nor texts. She does not have a hidden phone (yes, I checked), nor any other apps on her phone for covert communication (also checked).
> 
> *She has been accountable for her whereabouts each day (leaving work, etc). I have a GPS tracker on her phone that shows no deviation form where she is going (work/gym, etc). So far her accountability checks out from the electronic evesdropping perspective.*




The OM could be picking her up in his car at the gym/etc. In this day and age,two reasonably intelligent people can be aware of possible gps tracking. Especially,since they've been found out.

Wish you well.


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## G.J.

Here is the drug in the needle she is seeing (at least) every day

Oxytocin - This is released by the hypothalamus gland during child birth and also helps the breast express milk. It helps cement the strong bond between mother and child.* It is also released by both sexes during orgasm* and it is thought that it promotes bonding when adults are intimate. The theory goes that the more sex a couple has, the deeper their bond becomes

•Vasopressin - Another important chemical in the long-term commitment stage. It is an important controller of the kidney and its role in long-term relationships was discovered when scientists looked at the prairie vole

•Dopamine - Also activated by cocaine and nicotine.

•Norepinephrine - Otherwise known as adrenalin. Starts us sweating and gets the heart racing.

•Serotonin - One of love's most important chemicals and one that may actually send us temporarily insane.


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## ArmyofJuan

Know this, she doesn't respect you and you so willing to R after finding out she cheated isn't helping. No man with an once of self respect would knee jerk to R, it shows weakness.

If she is not afraid of losing you she is not going to feel anything for you. She knows what she did was wrong and not suffering any consequences will kill any motivation to work on the M. 

I say this because what you NEED to do is going to sound extreme (its really not, you are minimizing what she did a bit) but in order to wake up any passion back in your W you need to consider it.

If I were in your shoes (and my goal was to successfully R, not false R which I have done before) I would talk to a lawyer and file for a petition for a divorce. Mind you only about 50% of people that file actually go through with it but I think you need to send a message that you will not tolerate cheating and that you can at any time pull the plug on the M. 

Once she feels she can really lose her M over what she did then you'll see what her feelings are. Knowing you are not going to leave her just puts things in limbo and makes you appear, for lack of a better word, "unattractive". Women like men who stand up for themselves, even if it means standing up to them.

tl;dr Dump her and make her fight to keep you


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## badmemory

OP,

You thinks it's tough for her to quit her job? That difficulty pales in comparison to having a successful R while they work together. No matter all the sophisticated monitoring you use, you'll never be able to know if the A has ended while they have that chance for contact. So many times a BS and WS have to decide between the marriage or the job. This is one of those times.

Your wife has no idea of what she needs to do start repairing the damage she's done. Withholding sex? That should be completely unacceptable to you. She should be doing anything and everything for you to demonstrate her remorse. It's called being willing to do the heavy lifting. That's not even close to happening.

The bottom line is that you have to be prepared to divorce her, if she doesn't quit that job and demonstrate unconditional remorse. And my take is; that until she experiences that gut wrenching feeling of losing her husband for cheating on him; it's not going to happen.


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## jld

OP could show her this thread. He could explain what he has learned about the importance of no contact and transparency. He could ask her to do some reading here and see what she thinks.

OP, setting some conditions for reconciliation, plus working on reattaching emotionally, might be a good plan moving forward. Are you open to the idea of divorce if there is not progress?


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## G.J.

Just an add to what I have posted

*IF* you tell her she needs to resign and start looking for another job watch her reaction as it will tell you a lot on her feelings to not seeing her AP again at work.(prepared to be shocked)

Have both of you wrote out a NC letter to the AP yet?


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## Nucking Futs

Op, have you noticed that everyone is telling you the same thing? You are not in R, you're in false R. The PA may have ended, probably not but maybe, but the EA is in full swing. She's being faithful to her man, and that is not you.

You have GPS evidence that she's not going anyplace you don't know about? Wrong. You have GPS evidence that she's not taking her phone with her if she does. Your "sophisiticated monitoring" is so basic and unsophisiticated that it's defeated by cheaters every day. You're monitoring her texting? Get a burner phone. Oh, you looked for a burner phone and didn't find it. Great! That's proof that you didn't look where it is, not that it doesn't exist. You confronted her with the text messages when you busted her. Is she a fool? If she's not, she's not going to continue using the same method you already busted her with. There are so many ways she could be communicating with him it borders on the ridiculous. For instance, she could be using a texting ap that texts over data. She could be installing it when she leaves the house and deleting it before she gets home, then repeating the next day. Nothing on the phone for you to see, nothing in the icloud. 

Every single person on this board that has experience with this is telling you the same thing. Believe it.


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## chaos

You know why she was having sex with you and trying to hide the affair? Because she was afraid that if you found out that you would have kicked her to the curb and filed for divorce. But now that SHE KNOWS that it isn't going to happen, any sexual attraction she had for you, went down to absolute zero

Face it, you have insulated it her from the consequences of her actions and that is why you have her sitting on the fence today. You are responsible for turning her into a cake eater.


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## Chaparral

jld said:


> OP could show her this thread. He could explain what he has learned about the importance of no contact and transparency. He could ask her to do some reading here and see what she thinks.
> 
> OP, setting some conditions for reconciliation, plus working on reattaching emotionally, might be a good plan moving forward. Are you open to the idea of divorce if there is not progress?


Dream on. The worst possible advice. You might as well give her a road map to hide the affair.

Its great to be this optimistic but this is naive.

You do not tell some one who is lying and gaslighting you your game plan.

You're assuming she is telling the truth about everything. The fact is if she is lying through her teeth, they all do. Letting her come her is a fast track to divorce.

If you are going to start telling another cheated on spouse to be nice and love them back home you are just greasing the skids on this marriage.


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## chaos

Time for you to "man up". Read *What I've Learned in the Past Year - A good news story* and *Just Let Them Go*. These will help you to accept reality and to prepare you to face what's coming no matter what happens in your marriage.


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## italianjob

I agree with what most of the posters are telling you.

- You are trying to rug sweep this, but this will only give you some weeks of false R.

- The affair is far from over, even if the physical part might have been put "on hold" waiting for your surveillance to get loose with time.

- There is very little chance that you can get to reconcile without NC. They shouldn't work together. You're putting money issues before your marriage.


----------



## jld

Chaparral said:


> Dream on. The worst possible advice. You might as well give her a road map to hide the affair.
> 
> Its great to be this optimistic but this is naive.
> 
> You do not tell some one who is lying and gaslighting you your game plan.
> 
> You're assuming she is telling the truth about everything. The fact is if she is lying through her teeth, they all do. Letting her come her is a fast track to divorce.
> 
> If you are going to start telling another cheated on spouse to be nice and love them back home you are just greasing the skids on this marriage.


Why would we not want both spouses to be here? Isn't that how we can best help them?

And if she doesn't want to go no contact and be transparent on her own, genuinely, from her heart, why would he want to stay with her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## italianjob

jld said:


> *Why would we not want both spouses to be here? Isn't that how we can best help them?*
> And if she doesn't want to go no contact and be transparent on her own, genuinely, from her heart, why would he want to stay with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not with one still gaslighting the other. It will be true if they get to be in a real R.

You're right on the second part, even if we know that sometimes it takes the fear of losing the marriage to make cheaters really want a genuine R


----------



## D.H Mosquito

The affair is not over if anything just on hold, the sex being stopped and the "no connection yet" from her points to it, when my wife had been been rumbled and wanted us to be together she upped the sex and massages my favourite beers wines and steaks etc to keep me interested and her constant apologies, have you had any of this? i doubt if she has as it is pointing towards you being in her bed but him in her heart, so what you going to do to change it? her changing her job or going on sick leave to work on things would be a good place to start


----------



## turnera

GasRN said:


> I do have access to both and have seen no electronic communication.


Have you checked for her burner phone? Have you installed a keylogger on her computer/phone to see what she types NOW, from a different email name?


----------



## turnera

Observer said:


> OP consider that perhaps the OM ended the affair after sex. She could still be emotionally attached to him, hence the way she is with you. That would be troubling as it means nothing has really changed with you two. You are waiting for her to come around when she is waiting for him to come around...it's all bad. Has she been remorseful? How can you trust what she is telling you...


this is the most likely scenario.


----------



## 6301

Your going to have to realize that she created the problem and it's up to her NOT YOU to fix it in any way possible and mean it. 

Anything other than this is unacceptable and you should let it be known that she either starts acting like a wife and shows you that she really wants it to work or your lawyer will be the next man she takes a interest in. 

She lied to you and it wasn't just some little white lie that doesn't count for much so you can't allow yourself to trust her words. Her actions are the only way to know if there's any remorse.

Someone mentioned that telling her to quit and seeing her reaction is a good idea. I had a situation where the look on my now ex wife's face was the answer to my question. The look I got told me everything I needed to know. Try it. With any luck you could find out what you need to know and what to do, but one thing you don't want to do right now is take her word on anything.


----------



## BobSimmons

Didn't even bother to read most of the replies because I think it's guaranteed the verdict will be pretty unanimous.

There can be no R while she works or sees everyday the man she had sex and built an emotional bond with.

Of course it's easy to maintain boundaries at work, but then again you'll never know what she's doing at work will you?

You see here's the problem. You shouldn't have to be helping her to "emotionally attach". You've given her the gift of R, she's either sorry she's done what she's done because she loves you and wants to work on the marriage or she's sorry for what she's done and is not in love with you for really in her mind she's justified in her actions.

If she's not in love with you then why stay with her?


----------



## Q tip

If you want R... You must stop the A, you must go nuclear and expose her to the world. 

- expose the affair to OM wife/GF
- expose affair to your WW family and friends
- expose affair to your family and friends

Do this before she tells her story and lies about you, rewriting marital history. She'll portray you as the bad guy. Beat her to this with the truth. Gather evidence to share if you can. 

Put OM on Cheaterville.com with facts and evidence if you've got it. Then use their facility to communicate to his family and friends. He's a home wrecker. The ladies need to know about him. Destroy him. 

Read Married Man Sex Life Primer. EVERYTHING you've been taught about women is wrong. You are doing this wrong.

File for D. Have her served at work. Hold it over her head during your R. You can always cancel the D. You have the right to D at any time. Now or 5 years from now. She lost her vote. 

She needs a wake up call to the brutal evil she's brought into your marriage. 

She's still in the A. You must break it up. Claim your property, man!

Read Marrid Man Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay. Now. Today! Memorize it, execute the MAP. Do it for yourself. 

If she is not a quivering snot ball of a mess groveling at your feet with a bucket of tears with true remorse and regret and giving you the best sex of your life, D the skank.

Own your future, Be a man. Alpha up. You did not "mean" her into an affair, you cannot "nice" her back. Do not go into the beta BS script and fail.

This is chess not checkers. Have a plan, man!

FYI. Cheaters are liars - watch actions NOT words. Actions tell you all you need. Do not listen.


----------



## GasRN

I would like to thank each of you for your input. I've read and pondered them all. I appreciate the perspective the group is bringing, but need to point out one thing:

Not one of you responded in an attempt to answer either of my questions.


I am not at a point of giving up on this. If that point comes, I will return here to review the advice the majority of you have given. Until then, I please ask if you feel compelled to respond to this thread, please do so in a manner that answers either of my OP questions.


----------



## Q tip

GasRN said:


> I would like to thank each of you for your input. I've read and pondered them all. I appreciate the perspective the group is bringing, but need to point out one thing:
> 
> Not one of you responded in an attempt to answer either of my questions.
> 
> 
> I am not at a point of giving up on this. If that point comes, I will return here to review the advice the majority of you have given. Until then, I please ask if you feel compelled to respond to this thread, please do so in a manner that answers either of my OP questions.


Answer just above your post. also you need to open your eyes. You need to re-read the entire thread with the understanding that others are helping you. You gotta read and understand what's presented to you.


----------



## turnera

GasRN said:


> I would like to thank each of you for your input. I've read and pondered them all. I appreciate the perspective the group is bringing, but need to point out one thing:
> 
> Not one of you responded in an attempt to answer either of my questions.
> 
> 
> I am not at a point of giving up on this. If that point comes, I will return here to review the advice the majority of you have given. Until then, I please ask if you feel compelled to respond to this thread, please do so in a manner that answers either of my OP questions.


Gas, if your wife is still cheating, SHE CANNOT REATTACH. Women only love one man at a time.

We are trying to help you understand that you are harming yourself AND your marriage if you don't first make sure of this.

Once I'm sure you have done your due diligence, and it's clear she's not still pining for him in her DAILY contact with him, I will turn my attention to that NEXT problem - helping her reattach.

And please understand that we are not answering the way we are because we are trying to get you to divorce. We are trying to help you save your marriage. We have years, thousands of posts sometimes, and TONS of experience with men exactly like you who WANT to believe their wife, once discovered, stopped loving her OM. Doesn't work that way. Especially if they still see each other. So we're giving you the advice you NEED to hear at this stage in your R - all the steps necessary to verify no more cheating. We do it because it works.


----------



## EleGirl

GasRN said:


> 2 months ago I discovered my wife's affair. It began as an emotional affair and progressed to sexual. By happenstance I discovered it relatively early (6mo into affair, 1 week into sexual). My wife has ended this affair with the OM, but due to occupation still must interact with him (coworker, not boss, etc). There is little to no chance for job change for either of them due to occupation. Since the discovery and ending of the affair, my wife states that she is doing well maintaining boundaries with this OM.
> 
> In the wake of the discovery, we have each been in individual counseling as well as joint counseling. She has revealed that she has become emotionally detached from me over the last few years. We have been together for 14yrs, married for 11. During the last few years I had no indication that she was detaching emotionally. We spoke about not only the logistics of our marriage (schedules, kid, etc), but also plans, hopes, etc. Her physical/sexual presence was consistent throughout. She hid not only her detachment as it progressed, but her affair very well. She has admitted she consciously made efforts to conceal both to appear as if no changes had occurred.
> 
> At the time of the affair discovery, she had emotionally attached more to the other man than to me. She states she never "loved" him, but all of her descriptions of the relationship point to it.
> 
> At present we are trying to rebuild our marriage, but she is having a difficult time reattaching. I am trying to give her space and time. Our formerly very active sex life has stopped "cold turkey". She wishes to abstain from all sexual activity until she can emotionally reattach.
> 
> Questions for those who have been through this (particularly the wives who have been in her position):
> 
> 1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?
> 
> 2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?
> 
> Thank you all for any insight you may have.


There are three books that can help you with recovering your marriage. They will give you a plan of action that both of you can work on together.

Read them in the order I list them below. They are all written by Dr. Harley.

"Surviving an Affair" 
"His Needs, Her Needs"
"Love Busters"


----------



## EleGirl

GasRN said:


> Questions for those who have been through this (particularly the wives who have been in her position):
> 
> 1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?
> 
> 2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?


The books I suggest in my above post will answer these questions and give you and your wife a solid plan of action.

Many people not only repair their marriage after an affair, but many have a better marriage afterwards because they learn a lot about each other and their marriage during the recovery process.


----------



## G.J.

GasRN said:


> 1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?
> 
> *1a.You need her to have NO CONTACT with AP ITS ALL IN THE THREAD everyone has told you ????*
> 
> 
> 2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?
> 
> *2a.There is no recovery until 1a happens*
> 
> Thank you all for any insight you may have.



You have read the reply's and ignored them..it is a normal reaction but when you realize what happens in the near future please come back as we can and will help you as ALL of us have gone through this


----------



## lifeistooshort

Have you been able to identify the reasons for her detachment from you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

GasRN said:


> I would like to thank each of you for your input. I've read and pondered them all. I appreciate the perspective the group is bringing, but need to point out one thing:
> 
> Not one of you responded in an attempt to answer either of my questions.
> 
> 
> I am not at a point of giving up on this. If that point comes, I will return here to review the advice the majority of you have given. Until then, I please ask if you feel compelled to respond to this thread, please do so in a manner that answers either of my OP questions.


Read the answers you got. The reason the answers weren't to your question is that there is no answer. She cannot reconnect with you while working with him. There are thousands of threads here and I don't remember it ever happening.

He's her knight in shining armour. Your the chain around her neck until she no longer sees and thinks of him daily.

In other words, simply because she can't stomach sex with you, we know you are not in a real reconciliation with her.

When you take the actions to make this real there are things you can do.


----------



## Vulcan2013

Since I'm working out, I'll try to put this in a medical context:

Me: doc, I failed deadlifts 3x. 
1 - is it my diet?
2- do I need a better technique? Maybe a weight belt?

You: Sir! You're having a heart attack! 
Take these aspirin and get in the ER now!

Me: you didn't answer my questions. 

Sorry, you are doing some good things, but you are in a false R and don't know what is happening. 

Read the Road Scholar thread. No sex for 5 months after her affair. Surprise, she was still on touch. He followed advice, went "nuclear" (I really hate that; the consequences are appropriate), and she folded, cut contact, and they are in R. 

Advice sounds counter intuitive, but you are demonstrating weakness and low value.


----------



## Q tip

She has to do all the heavy lifting in R. Right now, she dreams of OM and won't touch you. 

Absorb the advice given. Don't be that guy who returns later to say we were all right and now it's too late...


----------



## GasRN

ConanHub said:


> People have given you good advice. You are more than likely a rug sweeping plan B and don't like what you are hearing.
> 
> Your wife is still having an affair and the other man is very probably still exploring your wife's birth canal.
> 
> Merry Christmas.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Totally inappropriate and you know it. Your further input is not appreciated.


----------



## Q tip

GasRN said:


> Totally inappropriate and you know it. Your further input is not appreciated.


It's the OMs input you should be concerned with.


----------



## turnera

Gas, it doesn't work that way on forums. People tell you what they see. And what most of us see - because we have helped HUNDREDS of men in your exact situation - is that she is NOT committing to you because she still wants him. And she still wants him because she sees him every day. Go look up books on affairs - every one will tell you if the WW and the OM continue to see each other, she will not give up on him. And you WILL be her Plan B (i.e., if he never comes back to sweep her off her feet).

I'm sorry it bothers you to hear it, but it's the truth. The sooner you acknowledge it, take steps to change things, the sooner you MIGHT get your wife to reattach.


----------



## ConanHub

Your wife has been and is inappropriate. You don't like people pointing that out and that is your problem.

I didn't screw you over. That was your wife and the man she still sees every day. 

Seriously, have a merry Christmas. I have little interest in doormats anyway which is what you may well be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Q tip

Gas is a tough one. Comes here to be validated. Won't change his thought process. Finds what is said here not what he wants to hear and argues with reality. 

We've become the part of his consciousness that he knows he needs to follow and act on, but at this point he is in denial.


----------



## oneMOreguy

GasRN said:


> Totally inappropriate and you know it. Your further input is not appreciated.


....people are trying to somewhat shock you into paying attention to what they are saying. Please do not discard anyone's posts......but rather try to find any kernel of truth in them that you might find useful.

Overall....what is being expressed is that your wife CANNOT reattach emotionally to you as long as she has an emotional attachment to the other guy. She may be expressing guilt to you and others about the affair, but just because she is not actively having sex with the other guy does not in any way mean that she is detaching from him, or is making any effort to. I have been there, and every time I saw my inappropriate young lady friend, either in person, on Facebook, etc.....all of my feelings for her came rushing back in a flood. It was like starting all over again.

Your wife has now changed.....permanently. It hurts to know that, but you will eventually see it for yourself. She is no longer the lady you married. Whether she reattaches to you again emotionally is really up to her, not you or anything you do or say to her. But know this also, women in general do not fall for needy or emotionally weak men.........for your own well being and to look attractive to all women, work on appearance and confidence......stay busy, work out, get fit and trim, and pursue those things/hobbies that make you happy and satisfied. 

But she clearly is not real concerned about losing her marriage at this point, or she would be dealing with you much differently and doing everything possible to make you happy. A lot of betrayed spouses initiate divorce papers to show their wayward spouse that their poor behavior has caused real risk to the marriage. you can always cancel divorce proceeding if you two reconcile.

edited to include....don't forget that cheaters lie..........she lied to you over and over about her emotional feelings of love for this guy, having sex with him, and no longer loving you. Don't think for a second that she is not continuing to lie to you about many things regard the affair and her feelings. Remember she knows your weakest point....that you desperately want the affair ended, and for her to love you like she did before her affair.


----------



## ThePheonix

GasRN said:


> Not one of you responded in an attempt to answer either of my questions.


Here are your questions;

1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?

2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?

I said, 

_You may as will face it, your marriage is road kill. She lost interest in you long before the boyfriend came along. She found a replacement for the well that dried up at home. Your either going to have to get comfortable with rejection or leave your ego at the door and seek the truth on what you're dealing with. You need an alternate plan that doesn't include her. Elvis has left the building Dawg. _

To be clearer, ain't nothing you can do. Her romantic interest in you is gone. 
The red flags, I'll call them flashing road signs, are flying to high heaven. The "res ipsa loquitur" flag is when she told you to keep your hands to yourself and your pecker in your pants. 

Besides me, a number of others have answered your question. You just don't like what you're hearing. I'll give it 5 months before she flat out tells you, "this ain't working for me. I want out"


----------



## Q tip

Simple...

No consequences for her infidelities, expect more of the same until she dumps you.

Read the book MMSLP. It will be of great help.


----------



## Chaparral

G.J. said:


> Here is the drug in the needle she is seeing (at least) every day
> 
> Oxytocin - This is released by the hypothalamus gland during child birth and also helps the breast express milk. It helps cement the strong bond between mother and child.* It is also released by both sexes during orgasm* and it is thought that it promotes bonding when adults are intimate. The theory goes that the more sex a couple has, the deeper their bond becomes
> 
> •Vasopressin - Another important chemical in the long-term commitment stage. It is an important controller of the kidney and its role in long-term relationships was discovered when scientists looked at the prairie vole
> 
> •Dopamine - Also activated by cocaine and nicotine.
> 
> •Norepinephrine - Otherwise known as adrenalin. Starts us sweating and gets the heart racing.
> 
> •Serotonin - One of love's most important chemicals and one that may actually send us temporarily insane.


This is another reason she isn't progressing, she is getting none of these "love" drugs from you.


----------



## OldWolf57

Gas, they actually answered your questions.
These people are vets at this, and the answers are all the same dealing with cheaters.
1. what can you do to help her= force her to quit the job and NOT EVER have contact with him again. As been said, she can't turn to you with her seeing him every day.
AND yes, in spite of all your due diligence, they still see each other every day.

Look at it this way,,,, while in the affair, you still got sex, to hide the involvement. BUT she wasn't emotionally attached to you then.
Now that it's known, you get nothing.

Dude, save your money on MC and IC, until she wants the marriage as much as you, it's a waste of funds.

How do you help her,, by making HER do the heavy lifting to save the marriage.
You are treating her like she has a serious illness, instead of being a cheating POS.

How do you help her,,, you can't, she knows you need and want her more than she needs or want you.

Gas, there is NOTHING special about this woman, or your problem. Only you think so. To us it's the same old same old.

Do you know how long a bj takes in a stairwell or parking lot,,, with the gps showing she at her desk???
Wise up dude. The tears and script is the same as the other cheaters.
There are plenty here who was in MC and IC while the A was still going on. It's easy for them to produce tears for the MC as they think of all they are going thru to keep their love alive and secret.

So yes, they ALL answered your questions, and just like you said you wasn't ready to give up, bet your last dollar she knows that, and is using it.

Come back and see us when you get serious about saving this marriage,, ok.


----------



## Q tip

She's lied. It was much longer than a six month EA and a mere weeks sex romp...

Wake up, dude.

She regrets she got caught and seeks to minimize her role, responsibilities, the facts and truth to you.

You have no idea how many guys she's had. How she did it and what she did for them she refuses to do for you.

Cheaters are liars. She will try to make folks think you're the bad guy and OM was only a shoulder to cry on. It just went too far. So sorry. Boo hoo..

Wake up, start a plan. If she does not want to R, what is your plan then.

Don't matter, take care of you. read MMSLP

Good luck.


----------



## chaos

> 1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?
> 
> Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?


Not possible while she remains in contact with OM.



> 2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?


Remaining in contact with the OM.

Anymore questions?


----------



## Mr Right

GasRN said:


> I would like to thank each of you for your input. I've read and pondered them all. I appreciate the perspective the group is bringing, but need to point out one thing:
> 
> Not one of you responded in an attempt to answer either of my questions.
> 
> 
> I am not at a point of giving up on this. If that point comes, I will return here to review the advice the majority of you have given. Until then, I please ask if you feel compelled to respond to this thread, please do so in a manner that answers either of my OP questions.


And this is why you will FAIL. Read book on what you should do after your partner has and affair (if you want to stay together) and they all say, "you need to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it" and "the WS needs to have NO CONTACT, what so ever with the person they cheated with".

I really wish you luck and hope you can sort it out and keep your marriage together but you really need to "Man Up" and get your "Alpha Male" going, if you want any chance with your wife and you need to do it NOW. Again I wish you luck!!!


----------



## Divinely Favored

GasRN said:


> no. From hearing her recounts both at home and in counseling sessions, he played her. Friendship at first, tweaked her interest and said the right things and she fell right in step. Slowly built up the interest within her until the sex finally happened.


Do not believe it...you got his name...right....start digging. Find out for sure and expose to his family what a POS he is. I would talk to HR too. He needs to feel repercussions.

They see each other at work every day. No need to phone/text.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Divinely Favored

GasRN said:


> While I cannot get into the specifics of what we each do, suffice it to say that we each work in an environment that is not easy to find time to "stray" at work. There is little contact with coworkers during work hours, but you have potential to see each other sparingly throughout the day. It is also not easy to just quit and find a replacement position.


How did they find the time to start with!!!! Poly will clear some things up here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Divinely Favored

GasRN said:


> Totally inappropriate and you know it. Your further input is not appreciated.


He's trying to wake you up! You should listen to them, they know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happy as a clam

OP... You came here and asked for advice, and you are getting some great advice (you just don't realize it yet).

TAM can be a rough awakening to the reality of your situation. It would behoove you not to leave now just because you don't like what you're hearing. I hope you stick around, read other threads from people who were in the same boat; you just may be able to save your marriage if you take to heart the advice being given.

Buckle up. Turbulence ahead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Q tip

Gas,

You both own and family issues 50:50. However, she chose to cheat. She owns that 100%. OM provided the firmware. That's all.

Anything less than 100% is Rugsweeping, Gaslighting, Lying, Projection, Blameshifting. 

Get it? It's a hard road though R. She does all the heavy lifting, sorrow and total remorse. She needs to earn you back. 

So far? Nada, Zilch. She has not resigned, or turned in OM if senior in rank to HR. No Contact of any kind is absolute. She will not come back to you otherwise. Save your money on IC/MC. 

Read MMSLP. Get your groove back.


----------



## bigfoot

I'll answer your question. First, you tell her that it is over. The marriage. You tell her that like a diseased limb, its time to amputate. No feeling, not working like normal, bad pathology report.

Secondly, if she agrees, then its over. If she fights, she's coming around.

You know there is no way to compel a person's feelings. You love her despite what she's done. She's detached despite what you've done. 

I maintain, better to leave with your dignity intact, than to hang on like she's a prize. Good luck.


----------



## chaos

Every so often, a BS pops up, tells his/her story very calm and collected - despite the severity of the situation. Forum members rush out with their thoughts on how to proceed for his/her well being. He/she later drops the bomb that he/she either previously cheated on their WS or was guilty of abusing their WS, prior to the affair. The forum members are left in a WTF? mode. Turns out that he/she was very willing to accept the affair as penance for his/her past sin/transgression(s). I wonder if this is one those stories.


----------



## Chaparral

I'll give you an example about how cheaters lie. Did you investigate the OM and find out he wasn't married? Its standard practice for a cheating spouse to tell the betrayed spouse their affair partner is single. This is so you won't contact the other betrayed spouse, rat them out and ruin the affair.

Did you learn he was married from your wife? NOTHING a cheater says can be trusted. You have to independently verify everything.

Take care of yourself. Adultery is one of he worse things a person can go through , even worse than death in the family many times.

Get ptsd counseling for yourself. Lift weights and excercise. The adrenalin, hormones and other pain killing chemicals released during weightlifting help tremendously. Go out with your friends. Do the 180 until she comes around, if she does. She has to see you pulling away and see what life with a broken family will be like. You have to appear strong and happy even if you have to fake it. You can't show any weakness, no tears, no begging etc. If you have to leave to break down.

Know this. The odds are against any reconcilliation. Only 1 in 3 marriages successfully reconcile. The spouse that cares the least has the control.


----------



## GusPolinski

GasRN said:


> 2 months ago I discovered my wife's affair. It began as an emotional affair and progressed to sexual. By happenstance I discovered it relatively early (6mo into affair, 1 week into sexual). My wife has ended this affair with the OM, but due to occupation still must interact with him (coworker, not boss, etc). There is little to no chance for job change for either of them due to occupation. Since the discovery and ending of the affair, my wife states that she is doing well maintaining boundaries with this OM.
> 
> In the wake of the discovery, we have each been in individual counseling as well as joint counseling. She has revealed that she has become emotionally detached from me over the last few years. We have been together for 14yrs, married for 11. During the last few years I had no indication that she was detaching emotionally. We spoke about not only the logistics of our marriage (schedules, kid, etc), but also plans, hopes, etc. Her physical/sexual presence was consistent throughout. She hid not only her detachment as it progressed, but her affair very well. She has admitted she consciously made efforts to conceal both to appear as if no changes had occurred.
> 
> At the time of the affair discovery, she had emotionally attached more to the other man than to me. She states she never "loved" him, but all of her descriptions of the relationship point to it.
> 
> At present we are trying to rebuild our marriage, but she is having a difficult time reattaching. I am trying to give her space and time. Our formerly very active sex life has stopped "cold turkey". She wishes to abstain from all sexual activity until she can emotionally reattach.
> 
> Questions for those who have been through this (particularly the wives who have been in her position):
> 
> 1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?
> 
> 2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?
> 
> Thank you all for any insight you may have.


Speaking very generally, the absolute best way for you to help your wife to reattach to you is to show her that you're willing -- and able! -- to detach from her.


----------



## IIJokerII

OP,

The longer you try to press her on for affection without her returning it the farther she will grow from you. Give the rabbit a chase, and pull away from her. Yes, it will suck but your answer your so desperate to have will be drawn out by her actions. If she see's you pulling away and works with you to repair the damage and earn you respect and love then you know she is in fact genuinely wanting to stay with you, although you must remain diligent in the initial months or so to ensure she is indeed honest.

And if you pull away and she distances herself even more than you equally have your answer. It will suck, but it is something you MUST do. Do not wait. Start now.


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## GasRN

chaos said:


> Every so often, a BS pops up, tells his/her story very calm and collected - despite the severity of the situation. Forum members rush out with their thoughts on how to proceed for his/her well being. He/she later drops the bomb that he/she either previously cheated on their WS or was guilty of abusing their WS, prior to the affair. The forum members are left in a WTF? mode. Turns out that he/she was very willing to accept the affair as penance for his/her past sin/transgression(s). I wonder if this is one those stories.



Not the case. At all


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## Affaircare

GasRN, 

I'm sure the "advice" you've been reading sounds like we are all ganging up on you and telling you to give up on your marriage or being super harsh on your wife. But may I give you an example that may help clarify what we're saying? 

Part of the reason your wife "fell" for the OM is because slowly but surely she became addicted to the "high" of feeling pursued. Remember when you first started dating your wife and you thought she was a hot young thing? And your palms would sweat? And you thought about her ALL THE TIME? And you felt excited and happy and a little sick in the stomach all at the same time because SHE liked you? Yeah...that is the Chemistry of Love (read this article about it: The Chemistry of Love - How Love Works). 

In a way, it's an addiction to the brain releasing amphetamines. You've heard of people being addicted to amphetamines, right? Same here--it's a HIGH and you want MORE OF IT...and MORE ... and MORE. 

When a person ends their affair, they are basically saying "I'm going to end my addiction to this amphetamine high." We STRONGLY recommend that a person end their affair and never have any contact with the OP ever because otherwise it's essentially a drug addict saying, "Yeah I'm ending this drug that I'm addicted to...but I'm going to still handle it and see it every day. I'll just resist it." Yeah! RIGHT!  That's not a wise plan!!! Chances of "relapse" are 100% because the drug is right there in front of their face!!

In real life, in every case of addiction, it is smarter to quit COLD TURKEY. Yes, there will be some suffering for a few days (maybe a week). Yes there will be some consequences to be paid for the things done whilst addicted. But in the end, the chances of actually ending the addiction are much better, because you are 100% away from the drug! 

Furthermore, you initially asked for ways to help your wife emotionally reattach to you. This is like asking "How can I get my amphetamine addicted wife to chill out and relax while still taking the stimulants?" You can't! In order for her to reattach to you , she has to fully DETACH from the Other Man...and she can not do that while she works with him and interacts with him every day. 

So I do understand that we sound very unforgiving and like there is only one way to do this, and there's a reason for that. I myself have personally been helping people who are dealing with affairs for about 14 years now, and I'm telling you--you will get nowhere and she will never reattach to you until she is 100% completely detached from the OM. And the only way to 100% completely detach from the OM is to never, ever have any contact with him ever, EVER again. I realize she does not want to hear this, and you don't want to "rock the boat" but that's the real truth.

So now that you know the real truth, are you going to try to reinvent the wheel and give your spouse the chance to keep playing with her drug "and just resist it" because she promises (to not dive into the drug she's addicted to)? Or are you going to listen to us doing the very best job we can to tell you the TRUTH, even when it's a truth you don't want to hear, to help you two honestly recover and help you save your marriage?


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## OldWolf57

Gas, we are giving you the real here. It can be harsh, but many in your position refuse to see beyond your need.

Everything you know, she told you. AND the first thing you must learn is that cheaters lie !!!

If there is any chance for this marriage, and for you to retain her respect going forward, you need to start pulling away yesterday. 
That means no more holding her hand like she is some small child. No more you being the shoulder to cry on.
hahaha, man she's playing you good. SOMEHOW they found the time and places to screw, but she has you believing it can't be done.
Do you even know if her closest friend knows? Have you verified anything she told you?
Good Lord man, are you really to desperate to look closely?
If so, she see's that.
Have you even asked for a polygraph??


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## OldWolf57

Affair, that's the best I have ever seen it stated.

Gas, plz pay attention to what Affaircare said.


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## chaos

GasRN said:


> Not the case. At all


GasRN you can go to other forums like Marriage Builder or Divorce Busting and you will probably get advice on how to ride the storm while your wife is still longing painfully for her OM. The outcome is usually:

1 The marriage never recovers and the BS eventually comes out of his/her fog and finally faces the reality that it is time to move on and file for divorce. This can take a couple of years before it finally happens.

2. The marriage "recovers" but by this time the BS is so emotionally exhausted that he/she no longer is able, nor longer cares, to reconnect with his/her emotionally reconnected, remorseful WS. Eventually, this also ends up in divorce.

As you've already noticed, TAM's CWI forum is a "Take no prisoners" Scorched earth, tough love approach when it comes to dealing with infidelity and the unfaithful spouse. It is not marriage oriented approach but a BS oriented one.

Only you can decide what approach suits your situation best. I wish you the best and hope that you actions are chosen wisely.


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## Jibril

GasRN said:


> At the time of the affair discovery, she had emotionally attached more to the other man than to me. She states she never "loved" him, but all of her descriptions of the relationship point to it.
> 
> At present we are trying to rebuild our marriage, but she is having a difficult time reattaching. I am trying to give her space and time. Our formerly very active sex life has stopped "cold turkey". She wishes to abstain from all sexual activity until she can emotionally reattach.
> 
> 1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?
> 
> 2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?


How exactly is SHE trying to rebuild the marriage? Aside from agreeing to counseling, obviously. It is clear to me and everyone reading this thread that you are stubbornly committed to making this work, but what has she done to convince you that she _deserves_ to be your wife?

I only ask because she is not behaving like someone who is set on reconciling with you. That she attached to her lover instead of you during the discovery is a bad sign, but not unexpected. The fact that she refuses to sleep with you is the biggest red flag of them all. It usually implies that she is being faithful to her lover, or that she has checked out of the marriage. Which means there is no hope for the marriage.

With that cheery note, on to Question 1.

There are several things you can do to get her to reconnect. You could play the sucker and try to woo her with chocolates and roses. Because she deserves to be rewarded for having an affair and betraying the marriage, of course. If you're lucky, she may opt to settle for you despite her seeming disinterest.

Or, you can blow up her world and make her chase you. This method may not work, either, but it puts you in control of your life and needs, so you don't need to be at the mercy of her emotional frigidness. This includes exposing her affair to the family, and demanding that she find a new job immediately. Some hard consequences for her infidelity may just do her some good.

The most effective way to shock her out of her frigidness is to divorce her outright. Nothing turns the tables faster than telling your cheating spouse they're no longer needed or wanted.

Of course, none of these methods are guaranteed to work, but your own attempts at reconciliation aren't guaranteed to work either. So pick your poison and stick with it.

Question 2. The red flag is immediate. Right now. You are in code red, and have been the minute she took her lover's side instead of yours during the discovery.

Basically, if she was truly intent on reconciling with you, _she would not be emotionally detached_. At all. SHE would be moving mountains to not only make up for her stupidity, and earn your trust, but she would be all over you in hopes of appeasing you and bonding with you. The fact that she is not doing these things means she is not nearly as interested in reconciling as you are. And that is a _very_ bad thing. 

It doesn't matter how desperately you cling to the marriage, GasRN. If she doesn't want to reconcile, there simply is nothing you can do.

I know you said you were not going to "give up" on the marriage, but if your wife isn't into you and the marriage, *then you have no marriage.* So there's nothing left to save.


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## syhoybenden

Don't believe words.

Watch and study actions.

Lying liars lie.


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## harrybrown

She will not reattach without sex with you.

To get her to want to reattach to you, you start the180 and let her know that she has destroyed your marriage.

That you feel like you will divorce for her love with the OM.

She is still involved with the OM and not you.

You let her see results for her actions. She killed your marriage and is attached to the OM. When you do the 180 and let her see that she toasted her marriage, maybe she will wake up, maybe she will not. Read the road scholar situation. His wife would not have relations with him. She was still having relations with the OM after Dday.

What would she do to you if you had an A? has she been tested for stds or did she use protection?


I hope you find peace someday, but you will not nice her out of her love for the OM. She is an addict.


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## Q tip

And get an STD test. For you and her. Helps with the shock factor and reality of her actions.


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## jld

I found something that might be what you are looking for, OP, though it is probably against the TAM orthodoxy.

Cheating Wives - When the wife has the affair
_
*There is tremendous hope for couples where the wife has been unfaithful, because the betrayed husband is serious about becoming the man he needs to be for his wife, and the changes he makes stick, so now more than ever the wife can have the husband she always wanted with the man she married*. The illusion that things will be better with the affair partner is exactly that, an illusion. In real life the other man comes with his own set of character flaws, and the loving courtship behaviors that are present in the secret relationship, don’t continue if the affair becomes a marriage._


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## Q tip

Ok, I don't believe you are in a stage of reality to use this properly, but when you are, you can share this with your WW. 

Do it now, you're gonna look weak and pathetic. 

=========================

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacksö assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## Q tip

Have you read MMSLP yet. If not, you're way behind. Everything you've been taught about women is wrong. You've been indoctrinated into thinking and acting the way you do with women. 

You have to fix you before you can work on her. She won't respond to you as a result of the betaization of certain characteristics you've slowly changed into. 

You probably place her on a pedestal. This is absolutely the worst thing you can do. 

Read, study and learn.

NO CONTACT WITH OM OF ANY KIND. PERIOD. He quits or she quits. What's more important. Your marriage or her Boyfriend. She's going underground for her sex now. She'll be real careful with you now.


----------



## ConanHub

jld said:


> I found something that might be what you are looking for, OP, though it is probably against the TAM orthodoxy.
> 
> Cheating Wives - When the wife has the affair
> _
> *There is tremendous hope for couples where the wife has been unfaithful, because the betrayed husband is serious about becoming the man he needs to be for his wife, and the changes he makes stick, so now more than ever the wife can have the husband she always wanted with the man she married*. The illusion that things will be better with the affair partner is exactly that, an illusion. In real life the other man comes with his own set of character flaws, and the loving courtship behaviors that are present in the secret relationship, don’t continue if the affair becomes a marriage._


How were the results when men employed the advise in that book?

Are there any chapters on how the wife can be better than a cheating wh0re? Does the husband get anything out of being super "doormat" nice while another man puts his penis in her?

Just wondering if that book has any expectations for a woman that is living like a lowlife and is a terrible wife to become a better woman so her husband won't kick her loser butt to the curb?

I am a man of integrity, strength, dignity, honor and responsibility. I am very secure and confident. I am also a catch.

A woman would have to be insane to cheat on me and expect to hang on to me. I always reinforce the expectation of respect from my wife. I give her my life and refuse to accept idiotic and childish behavior towards our marriage.

My attitude works quite well. Your book may work too but I would like to see actual people 5 to 10 years out from a wife's infidelity and how healthy the dynamic is.

I expect responsible, mature behavior from women and I, unsurprisingly, get it.

When you treat people like adults they tend to act like adults more often.

Does that book hold a WWs feet to the fire? Does it expect anything looking like adulthood from her?


----------



## thummper

Several have pointed this out, but need to reiterate: She's NEVER going to recommit to you while she's in contact with this other guy *EVERY SINGLE DAY*!!! In order for an addict to reform, they have to avoid the drug. In her case, the "drug" is the other man. She sees him and all the feelings, emotional and otherwise, come flooding back in. I'm not sure you'll be able to help her with this. Sorry. I hope that things get better, but I'm doubtful.


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## ConanHub

Yup. That is the book I thought. Absolute garbage.

Blames the husband for his wife's infidelity.

jld. How many real people who have a healthy marriage dynamic and are healthy individuals have you helped by telling the husband that his wife's wh0rish behavior is his fault?

Women do really cheat for the same reasons men do.


----------



## Q tip

Gas,

Just some thoughts. 

Since you don't believe what's being covered here. Prove us all wrong. Hire an experienced PI 24x7 for a week or two. Well, actually, every hour you're not around. If the PI can be a woman even better. 

Take some vacation days off from work. 

Get some spy cameras hooked up to your home. Inside and out. VAR the car and home too. Take a "business trip" for 3 days. Let her know the itinerary. Call her from the airport too. Then check in to a nearby hotel and lay low or rent a car and follow her yourself too. 

On the last day, call and let her know apologetically you need to stay on an extra day. Stay stealthy. Keep the PI on her too for those days.

Get creative if you want to prove this forum wrong. Let us know how things go.

ETA: nothing would be more music to my ears than you telling me I am absolutely wrong and I am full of Sh!t and for me to F myself. Then, I would be happy I was so wrong about this entire episode in your life.


----------



## ConanHub

P.S. I had a friend who did everything "nice" to be a better husband after his wife cheated. He was told all that bvllsh1t that a woman won't cheat unless the husband is doing something wrong or he is not doing something right.

He sucked it all up and really was the best father I have ever seen. He even moved to another state to make her happy because that was all his life had been boiled down to, making a disgusting, unworthy woman happy.

She wanted the move so that she could get one of her OMs penis in her more often.

My friend was given the same advise. It was his fault that his wife was cheating because women do not cheat on good men that take care of their wives and children.

He could not live as a cuckold and killed himself.

I will call out this idiotic and evil idea any time I see it.

Some people are simply worthless, men and women.


----------



## jld

ConanHub said:


> Yup. That is the book I thought. Absolute garbage.
> 
> Blames the husband for his wife's infidelity.
> 
> jld. How many real people who have a healthy marriage dynamic and are healthy individuals have you helped by telling the husband that his wife's wh0rish behavior is his fault?
> 
> Women do really cheat for the same reasons men do.


It is a website I found on a Google search, Conan. It is called the BAN network, and it is only for betrayed spouses. 

Are you referring to the book that the lady who runs the organization sells? I saw the ad, but I don't know anything about it.

The OP does not seem to want standard TAM advice. That web page might appeal to him more.

We can't control what other people want, Conan. We can offer thoughts and resources, but they make their own choices.


----------



## Q tip

OPs huge mistake is thinking if he does sex to his wife, all is good again.

If you will... The OM is doing it right. He's made love to her mind. He talks to her, he listens, smiles and engages the woman she is. He shows he's a real man. An enabler of women not a reactor to them. He's seduced her. She's putty in his arms. He stole her from her marriage. That's where he gets his rocks off. He spotted a woman who can be worked and used. Her weak boundaries was her tell. He is an absolute POS. 

Sure it's all on her 100%. The question he does not ask is - is it possible if she had that relationship with her H of a real man, a leader and not a nice guy, she'd not do this evil thing. 

A balanced Alpha/beta is no guarantee to stop affairs, but can help a lot. She shows loyalty to the OM not the H. It could have been loyalty to the H and rat out the OM the moment he showed his colors. She owns her infidelity 100%. But without consequences, this will repeat. She's weak and broken by an OM. An OM who has likely done this a lot where he works, and wherever he has worked.

I don't have an answer, but perhaps OP can gain more info here.


----------



## MattMatt

You can't help her. Only she can help her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

jld said:


> It is a website I found on a Google search, Conan. It is called the BAN network, and it is only for betrayed spouses.
> 
> Are you referring to the book that the lady who runs the organization sells? I saw the ad, but I don't know anything about it.
> 
> The OP does not seem to want standard TAM advice. That web page might appeal to him more.
> 
> We can't control what other people want, Conan. We can offer thoughts and resources, but they make their own choices.


Yeah. I am very familiar with that site and the doctrine it teaches. Men are told that it is their failure if their wife is a skank. I also am very dubious of their claimed results. I deal with real people in this shyt and their advice is a load.


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## thummper

You know, Gas, you're a good man. If my wife had cheated and betrayed me the way yours has you, I'd have "shown her the door." You're giving her a chance. That's really wonderful!! I only hope she knows how good the man is who's trying to forgive and work with her. Good luck, brother.


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## chaos

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. I am very familiar with that site and the doctrine it teaches. Men are told that it is their failure if their wife is a skank. I also am very dubious of their claimed results. I deal with real people in this shyt and their advice is a load.


It seems the prevailing "wisdom" that wives whose husbands satisfy all their "emotional needs" would never cheat on them. So if she cheats it is because the husband has failed in his husbandly duties. Very PC even though evidence shows that this is simply not true. If that were so then it could be said that cheating husbands cheat because their wives stopped having sex with them. But we won't see this because of the deafening outcry that would probably come from some women's groups.

The term "emotional needs" is a deceptive one that is bandied about with many of these experts. The word "needs" is defined as "of necessity; necessarily (usually preceded or followed by must)". Breathing, eating and sleeping ARE needs because they are essential for the continuation of life, they are non negotiable. Conversation, affection, sex, financial support, and appreciation ARE NOT needs because even though they enhance the quality of life, human beings can and have survived without them. Otherwise the people who are not in a sexual/romantic relationship and the people who are in one but are physically separated from their SO because of their work/career, would be dropping like flies left and right.

Their approach may be best for marital recovery but are definitely not good for the betrayed spouse's recovery.


----------



## EleGirl

chaos said:


> It seems the prevailing "wisdom" that wives whose husbands satisfy all their "emotional needs" would never cheat on them. So if she cheats it is because the husband has failed in his husbandly duties. Very PC even though evidence shows that this is simply not true. If that were so then it could be said that cheating husbands cheat because their wives stopped having sex with them. But we won't see this because of the deafening outcry that would probably come from some women's groups.
> 
> The term "emotional needs" is a deceptive one that is bandied about with many of these experts. The word "needs" is defined as "of necessity; necessarily (usually preceded or followed by must)". Breathing, eating and sleeping ARE needs because they are essential for the continuation of life, they are non negotiable. Conversation, affection, sex, financial support, and appreciation ARE NOT needs because even though they enhance the quality of life, human beings can and have survived without them. Otherwise the people who are not in a sexual/romantic relationship and the people who are in one but are physically separated from their SO because of their work/career, would be dropping like flies left and right.


Humans have many kinds of needs. The ones you list are the most basic needs to survive. We are much more complicated than just needing to survive. We are also social creatures that require, for the most part, strong social connections. We form marriages and families because we need them to survive. Human civilization has been structured as it is because of the need to band together for strength and the need to from family units. What binds us all together are our emotional needs. We gravitate towards those who meet our emotional needs and avoid those who do not.

A baby who has all of their basic physical survival needs met, but gets no human touch, no human interaction will fail to thrive. They will often die. If they do not die, they generally become very non-functional people.

I’m not sure why you are trying to turn this into a male vs female (evil women's groups) discussion as though the only emotional need men have is for sex. That’s hardly true.

The idea that unmet emotional needs often leads to affairs does not apply to women only, it applies to both men and women.

People who are separated for long periods from their SO’s generally end up in affairs to get their emotional needs met or end their marriage so that they can find someone who they can have daily contact with.




chaos said:


> Their approach may be best for marital recovery but are definitely not good for the betrayed spouse's recovery.


This is patently untrue. The norm on TAM is for men to push male BSs to dump a wife who cheats, punish her and humiliate her. Few people here on TAM have any experience with martial recovery after an affair because of the scorched earth approach used here by most.

However, when both spouses take responsibility for their contribution to the breakdown of the marriage, both work to improve themselves and their marriage and to build in protections for the marriage, a very good marriage recovery is usually achieved. That’s a recovery that it very good for both spouses.. yes even the BS. A good, strong recovery is very common.

It just does not happen for BS men who come to TAM asking for support.

The OP came here asking for a particular type of support. He wants work on recovery. But it seems he will not get that kind of support here.


----------



## happyman64

Gas

What consequences has your wayward wife felt since DDay?

What consequences has the OM felt since DDay?

Did they practice safe sex? Or did they endanger you as well?

What is their companies policy for screwing around?

You want to save your marriage well then you have to fight for it.

Buy you cannot do it alone.

And right now you are all by yourself.

So stop being nice. To her and to him.

Show them consequences. Who knows? Your wife might actually see a glimpse of her husband......

HM


----------



## jld

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. I am very familiar with that site and the doctrine it teaches. Men are told that it is their failure if their wife is a skank. I also am very dubious of their claimed results. I deal with real people in this shyt and their advice is a load.


Where are you getting this? Because I have spent the last 20 minutes looking around that site, and I am not seeing them blaming the BH for his wife's affair. They state very clearly that an affair is 100% on the person who had it.

They are also very clear that the WS needs to go No Contact. They even recommend it when there will be, clearly, a loss of income.


----------



## ConanHub

EleGirl said:


> Humans have many kinds of needs. The ones you list are the most basic needs to survive. We are much more complicated than just needing to survive. We are also social creatures that require, for the most part, strong social connections. We form marriages and families because we need them to survive. Human civilization has been structured as it is because of the need to band together for strength and the need to from family units. What binds us all together are our emotional needs. We gravitate towards those who meet our emotional needs and avoid those who do not.
> 
> A baby who has all of their basic physical survival needs met, but gets no human touch, no human interaction will fail to thrive. They will often die. If they do not die, they generally become very non-functional people.
> 
> I’m not sure why you are trying to turn this into a male vs female (evil women's groups) discussion as though the only emotional need men have is for sex. That’s hardly true.
> 
> The idea that unmet emotional needs often leads to affairs does not apply to women only, it applies to both men and women.
> 
> People who are separated for long periods from their SO’s generally end up in affairs to get their emotional needs met or end their marriage so that they can find someone who they can have daily contact with.
> 
> 
> 
> This is patently untrue. The norm on TAM is for men to push male BSs to dump a wife who cheats, punish her and humiliate her. Few people here on TAM have any experience with martial recovery after an affair because of the scorched earth approach used here by most.
> 
> However, when both spouses take responsibility for their contribution to the breakdown of the marriage, both work to improve themselves and their marriage and to build in protections for the marriage, a very good marriage recovery is usually achieved. That’s a recovery that it very good for both spouses.. yes even the BS. A good, strong recovery is very common.
> 
> It just does not happen for BS men who come to TAM asking for support.
> 
> The OP came here asking for a particular type of support. He wants work on recovery. But it seems he will not get that kind of support here.


Ele.... You are talking to a man that has seen very good results taking a hard approach to infidelity regardless of gender.

The site in question places the bulk of responsibility on the husband to improve the marriage. I agree that once the infidelity is properly dealt with that BOTH spouses are responsible for rebuilding a healthy marriage but the bulk of heavy lifting in regards to infidelity rests on the WSs shoulders.

OPs wife is still in contact with her AP every day and denying her husband sex. Her current thought process needs to be cut down, not watered and nurtured with love.

She needs to be made aware of what she has to lose and that she is far from doing everything to prevent that loss.

She ever pulls her head out and totally dedicates herself to repairing her damage and I will be on board for the husband doing everything in his power to be a good husband.

Right now he is being treated like a sexless plan B, he is not even being recognized as a husband.

The wife does need some sort of repercussion here to snap her fool head around.

At the very least, this ridiculous job situation needs fixed. 

If women were logical in an affair, BTW, they would realize straight off that any man that would sleep with a married woman is scum. But they have very little in the way of brain power when they are placing a fantasy on top of a scumbag so trying to reason with them at that point is foolish.

The best way to disillusion her is to somehow, destroy the illusion.

There are many tools to do this, exposure and real threat of divorce being two.

I do not believe one size fits all but some tool for disillusionment needs to be employed at this point.

I am also not for "punishing" a wayward but they need to deal with the repercussions of their own actions, face them and overcome.

OP can do many things to help his wife reattach to him emotionally, once her head is not planted squarely where she can watch her lower intestines function.


----------



## ConanHub

jld said:


> Where are you getting this? Because I have spent the last 20 minutes looking around that site, and I am not seeing them blaming the BH for his wife's affair. They state very clearly that an affair is 100% on the person who had it.
> 
> They are also very clear that the WS needs to go No Contact. They even recommend it when there will be, clearly, a loss of income.


I am not technically apt enough to cut and paste but they blatantly say that women cheat because the husband has failed.

So their answer to female infidelity is for the husband to up his game and be a better husband to win his WW heart back from her POS.

Unhealthy in the extreme to make the victim of infidelity pay for it in every way.

It is also extremely unhealthy to foster the illusion that the WW only cheated because the husband failed.

People cheat because they have it in them and don't resist temptation.

These wives might end up married to their husbands but never have to own that their infidelity was solely theirs and address the selfishness in their own hearts.

I have people around me that are in the strongest relationships of any that can be observed, one where the wife cheated multiple times and left 2x.

The marriage cannot even be addressed until the infidelity has and that is solely on the WS.

There is one man no longer around because I was too young and inexperienced to help him and he was advised to do everything that blasted site recommends.

Ele is right. People do need love and respect and affection. 

Especially a betrayed spouse. My friend got nothing but bvllsh1t advice and it was in line with what that site is promoting.


----------



## jld

ConanHub said:


> I am not technically apt enough to cut and paste but they blatantly say that women cheat because the husband has failed.
> 
> So their answer to female infidelity is for the husband to up his game and be a better husband to win his WW heart back from her POS.
> 
> Unhealthy in the extreme to make the victim of infidelity pay for it in every way.
> 
> It is also extremely unhealthy to foster the illusion that the WW only cheated because the husband failed.
> 
> People cheat because they have it in them and don't resist temptation.
> 
> These wives might end up married to their husbands but never have to own that their infidelity was solely theirs and address the selfishness in their own hearts.
> 
> I have people around me that are in the strongest relationships of any that can be observed, one where the wife cheated multiple times and left 2x.
> 
> The marriage cannot even be addressed until the infidelity has and that is solely on the WS.
> 
> There is one man no longer around because I was too young and inexperienced to help him and he was advised to do everything that blasted site recommends.
> 
> Ele is right. People do need love and respect and affection.
> 
> Especially a betrayed spouse. My friend got nothing but bvllsh1t advice and it was in line with what that site is promoting.


Well, I am reading time and again over there that cheating is 100% on the person who chose to have the affair. They talk about how that person has to go no contact, communicate openly and honestly, and answer all questions the BS has.

How much time have you actually spent there? Because the more I read, the more I think it has in common with what is said here than different.

ETA: I should say the fundamentals seem the same. I do not hear bitterness and anger in the writings there. There seems to be, from what I have read so far, a big emphasis on healing.


----------



## ConanHub

jld said:


> *There is tremendous hope for couples where the wife has been unfaithful, because the betrayed husband is serious about becoming the man he needs to be for his wife, and the changes he makes stick, so now more than ever the wife can have the husband she always wanted with the man she married*.[/I]


This opening statement sums it up. 

The wife cheats because the husband was not living up to her expectations. Not because she chose to be a vile human being and needs to work on herself.

Where in this statement does it claim the wife has a lot of work to do on herself?

It seems to be all about her and her needs. Forget the fact that she is a lowlife at this point and needs to seriously rearrange herself , it is the husband that needs to be a better man so she won't cheat.

It goes on to say that she needs to be convinced that the other man is not better than her husband. How about that SHE is not better than her husband? 

The burden put on the husband here is unhealthy.

The site also states that when a wife cheats it is more than likely that the husband has failed her in the marriage in some way.

Every marriage has problems and the wife is part of them. Cheating causes more than it's fair share of problems anyway.

Many husbands don't realize what is happening with their marriages and ARE doing everything they can to be better husbands while their wives treat them like shyt and are regularly getting plowed by their POS and bad mouthing their husbands.

There are many circumstances where the WW is causing all the problems by her selfish behavior.


----------



## chaos

jld said:


> Well, I am reading time and again over there that cheating is 100% on the person who chose to have the affair. They talk about how that person has to go no contact, communicate openly and honestly, and answer all questions the BS has.
> 
> How much time have you actually spent there? Because the more I read, the more I think it has in common with what is said here than different.
> 
> ETA: I should say the fundamentals seem the same. I do not hear bitterness and anger in the writings there. There seems to be, from what I have read so far, a big emphasis on healing.


jld I value and respect your input. If you read the following, you may understand why Conan and I have excoriated the advise in Cheating Wives – When the wife has the affair …:



> *When a wife cheats it is more likely that the husband has failed her in the marriage in some way*, than when the husband cheats. When the husband cheats it is more likely nothing to do with his wife, or satisfaction in his marriage


Now imagine for a minute if the genders were reversed and had the following:



> *When a husband cheats it is more likely that the wife has failed him in the marriage in some way*, than when the wife cheats. When the wife cheats it is more likely nothing to do with her husband, or satisfaction in her marriage


Do you see now, why we called this BS?


----------



## jld

CH and chaos, you took two statements from one page on that multi-page site. And you, CH, made sweeping statements about the whole site. Did you honestly read any more over there than that one page that I linked for you? 

At the top of that one page it says that they are making some generalizations based on gender and that there are exceptions. But those people have been working in this field for many years now, and the gender differences in infidelity that they mention are based on their experience. Are you truly ready to write off all that experience?

They said the wife needs to be educated on the fact that her AP has his faults, too. She needs to see that reality to snap her out of her fog.

I agree with them that the WS needs to stop working with her AP. But our OP seems hesitant to go that route, likely for financial reasons. The site says clearly that the relationship must come before money.

Again, the more I read over there, the more I think the fundamentals are quite similar to what is taught here. But the tone is calmer.


----------



## ThePheonix

ConanHub said:


> If women were logical in an affair, BTW, they would realize straight off that any man that would sleep with a married woman is scum.


That's kinda like saying if a thief were logical, they'd realize that the any person that would buy their stolen goods is scum. It reasonable to conclude that, but the thief is still a thief. Not sure which most folk think is worse. It would make for an interesting debate.

Regarding this girl's need to face the consequences of her actions, healing, and recovery, unless I'm reading Gasy's narrative wrong, she's not in much of a mood to get with the program.


----------



## chaos

jld said:


> CH and chaos, you took two statements from one page on that multi-page site. And you, CH, made sweeping statements about the whole site. Did you honestly read any more over there than that one page that I linked for you?
> 
> At the top of that one page it says that they are making some generalizations based on gender and that there are exceptions.


But right after, the rest of the article is nothing but an indictment of the betrayed husbands.



> But those people have been working in this field for many years now, and the gender differences in infidelity that they mention are based on their experience. Are you truly ready to write off all that experience?


More the reason for them not to justify the cheating wives affairs by stating that their affairs are due to the husbands not fulfilling their "emotional needs". Any cheating wives will use this as ammo for blaming their betrayed husbands. They will feel entitled in that it should be their betrayed husbands duty to do all of the marital recovery workload. No remorse is needed since it wasn't their fault according to the BAN experts, right? 

Even Dr Willard Harley has stated in his Marriage Builders website - a site with similar methodology as BAN - that it is often the WS who has not been meeting the "emotional needs" of the BS prior to the affair. I don't agree with Dr Harley's methods but I respect his more balanced look.


----------



## jld

I just reread the whole thing. Right after the paragraph that I, and later CH, highlighted, it says this:

_The illusion that things will be better with the affair partner is exactly that, an illusion. In real life the other man comes with his own set of character flaws, and the loving courtship behaviors that are present in the secret relationship, don’t continue if the affair becomes a marriage.

*What can a betrayed husband do who wants to win his wife’s heart?*

1. *Really love your wife.* Read The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. Speak all of these languages for your wife, and *find out what her primary languages are and do more of those. *A woman longs to be pursued and cherished.

2. *Refrain from being vindictive.* Don’t throw stones. She’ll just continue to see you as a “jerk,” something she’s likely been struggling with while caught up in the affair (and possibly before.)

3. *Be consistent. *Learn how to fight fair.

*But it’s not fair you say. Yes, I know. There is nothing fair in affair.*

*Suggestions for the wife who has had an affair:*

1.* Recognize that generally your affair partner is not better than the one you’re with.*

2. *Create reassurance for your husband, and give him lots of encouragement.*

3. *Reach out for support for yourself from sound, safe sources. *This journey is way too hard. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you can do it alone._



Where are you getting an indictment of BHs out of this? I see suggestions for recovery, based on probably thousands of cases they have experienced.

The OP actually asked for something along these lines. I hope he will find this post helpful, if he decides to return to TAM.


----------



## chaos

jld said:


> Where are you getting an indictment of BHs out of this?





> "The cheating wife has often gone to her husband, pre-affair, time and again wanting to “talk” about their relationship, to tell him how she’s hurting, to ask for what she needs, but for whatever reasons she has not been able to get through to him, so she has given up trying and shut down.
> 
> She feels she’s given him chance after chance and now “that’s it!” After the affair, she’s more reluctant to give him a chance to win her heart back. Wives in general tend to be more “relationally tuned in,” and aware of a disconnect within the marriage, so more likely to make effort to read books, go to counseling or marriage retreats, or even engage their spouse in a “let’s fix our marriage” conversation prior to the time she’s gotten sucked into an affair.
> 
> If a man has been unhappy in the relationship, he is less likely to be direct in asking for help. He is not likely to say, “Honey, we need to talk about our relationship.” He is fearful of being vulnerable in this way.
> 
> Some of the factors we find common when the wife has been unfaithful include:
> 
> – She didn’t feel heard in the marriage.
> – She didn’t feel understood.
> – She felt the heart connection was missing.
> – She lost herself in the marriage giving too much, and losing a sense of her own identity.
> – Her husband was an absentee father.
> – She felt a disparity in fairness in roles in the relationship.
> 
> And if she’s a woman of faith, she may have felt frustrated that her husband wasn’t taking on the role of spiritual leader in the home. She’s tired of trying to be the “good” person in the relationship, and she’s been carrying the responsibility for too many things for too long.
> 
> Today’s wives are under more stress than ever, because they generally work full-time outside the home and still carry the responsibility for most of the work in maintaining home and children. Plus women do not carry stress in the same way men do. Studies have shown that they feel twice as much stress at work given the same job/stressors as a man.
> 
> When a man comes home he generally has the ability to relax. This is how he de-stresses from the day. A woman on the other hand comes home to a second job and her stress now multiplies four times. Her Cortisol level (the stress hormone) shoots through the roof. Even if her husband says “here relax, I’ll take care of the kids, make dinner and do those extra loads of laundry,” she’ll only relax for a couple of minutes, then think of more things that need to get done and get up and start doing. The wife cannot relax until the work is done. Today’s women are generally experiencing far too much stress.
> 
> Wives are more likely to struggle with “greener grass syndrome.” “If only my husband would learn
> how to ___________ like so and so’s husband.”
> 
> The unfaithful wife often is not honest because she wants to hide the fact that she doesn’t want to get rid of the other relationship.
> 
> When a spouse cheats our society tends to assume there were problems in the marriage, which led to the affair. While marriages with problems are certainly more susceptible to affairs, problems in marriages are not the only reasons for affairs. AFFAIRS HAPPEN IN GOOD, STRONG MARRIAGES TOO.
> 
> When a wife cheats it is more likely that the husband has failed her in the marriage in some way, than when the husband cheats. When the husband cheats it is more likely nothing to do with his wife, or satisfaction in his marriage.
> 
> When a man is the betrayed spouse he is more likely to be concerned with counting the number of times the wife had sex in the affair. He wonders, “How good was the other man in bed?”
> 
> When the woman is the betrayed spouse she is likely to be more concerned with thoughts of “you must have loved her if …”
> 
> When the wife cheats she is more likely to have had a strong emotional connection to the other man. It’s less likely that her affair was only for sex.
> 
> When a husband cheats, while many times there is a strong emotional connection, there are also many times when the unfaithfulness was only about sex.
> 
> When a wife cheats she often gives sex to gain the emotional connection that is satisfying her.
> 
> When a husband cheats he is more likely to give the emotional connection to gain the sex he wants with this person.
> 
> When the wife cheats she suffers a greater social stigma and rejection. Her girlfriends are not likely to admire or support her in anyway (unless they’re desperate housewives protégés.)
> 
> When the husband cheats some of the men in his circle of influence may look up to him and envy him a bit, even if it’s never said, and he knows this. In some circles the man’s unfaithfulness is basically accepted. This is not likely for the woman, so she suffers with a greater sense of quiet desperation"


Anymore questions?


----------



## jld

So to you, that is an indictment?


----------



## chaos

jld said:


> So to you, that is an indictment?


Yes. And I dare say that many men reading that would agree with me.


----------



## jld

chaos said:


> Yes. And I dare say that many men reading that would agree with me.


Hmm. To me, it looks like an explanation.


----------



## chaos

jld said:


> Hmm. To me, it looks like an explanation.


To me not only and indictment but a justification for why a cheating wife had an affair. It was her husband's fault.


----------



## ThePheonix

I hate to tell you this Chaos but sometime if the husband wasn't a total horses azz toward his wife, she wouldn't be seeking another guy to make her feel better. If you treat them second rate, they'll often return the favor.


----------



## ToothFairy

I agree with JLD.. how many TAM posts are men talking about their WS and they preface it every time with some form of .. " I wasn't the best husband." , " I neglected my wife" ..etc. etc...

Many, not all men.. are clueless about the state of their marriage in spite of the many signs and efforts wives will put out there. Then, once their wives have lost all respect and love for them then suddenly they are crying about how their marriage tanked over an affair. It's not an excuse or a justification for anyone having an affair.. but it's how this happens. It just is.


----------



## jld

chaos said:


> To me not only and indictment but a justification for why a cheating wife had an affair. It was her husband's fault.


Have you read anything else on that site? I still have not gotten a straight answer from Conan on that.

In many places there, they say that the affair is 100% the responsibility of the one who had the affair. But the OP is specifically asking what he can do to win back his wife's heart, to get her to reattach. 

That site is very clear that there needs to be no contact with her AP. They would encourage him to forego the money in favor of the relationship.


----------



## RV9

ToothFairy said:


> I agree with JLD.. how many TAM posts are men talking about their WS and they preface it every time with some form of .. " I wasn't the best husband." , " I neglected my wife" ..etc. etc...
> 
> Many, not all men.. are clueless about the state of their marriage in spite of the many signs and efforts wives will put out there. Then, once their wives have lost all respect and love for them then suddenly they are crying about how their marriage tanked over an affair. It's not an excuse or a justification for anyone having an affair.. but it's how this happens. It just is.


It's not really an affair that kills a marriage. It's lies, disrespect, gaslighting, vilifying the spouse, using kids as pawns, cake eating that the WS s indulge in that does it. If you want to leave, close the door gently, don't burn down the house.


----------



## chaos

ThePheonix said:


> I hate to tell you this Chaos but sometime if the husband wasn't a total horses azz toward his wife, she wouldn't be seeking another guy to make her feel better. If you treat them second rate, they'll often return the favor.


Then the same could be said about some betrayed wives as well. They treated their husbands like crap and, in your words, their husbands "returned the favor".


----------



## chaos

jld said:


> In many places there, they say that the affair is 100% the responsibility of the one who had the affair.


But not in that page. Why not? 



> But the OP is specifically asking what he can do to win back his wife's heart, to get her to reattach.


For which you gave him the link to a page that more or less states that it was his fault that his wife cheated.


----------



## drifting on

1- As her husband, how can I assist her during this time?Is there anything I can do that will help her to emotionally reconnect?

2-at what point in duration of recovery is it a red flag if she's not progressing in emotional attachment?


Answer to question 1; your WW had an affair, your marriage is dead. It can't return to what it was. How can it? Assisting her at this time will help her affair more. The heavy work in reconciliation is done by the WS. I'm not saying your job is easy, it's just as difficult.

Answer to question 1part two. Detach from her, show her you will and can let her go. I stay this for several reasons. My WW had a six month affair with a co-worker. Used only workplace electronics to communicate. GPS? Useless for you in my opinion. How do you know she hasn't gone to his area of the hospital? How do you know her phone wasn't left in her area and she went to his? How do you know she doesn't pick up a hospital phone and call him? If she desires to contact him she will, and you are powerless. My wife did it, and she's not as educated as a RN. It will and can happen. If she can't quit, can she move to a different shift, maybe opposite his? 

Answer to question 2; the very first time she denies you sex. Reverse the roles here a minute. If she came to you wanting sex after you just got caught in an affair would you say no? I doubt it, and not because you are a male. You would because you would do anything to fix your marriage. In my opinion the affair is still happening, you can't see it because you can't monitor her work communication. Same as I. 

I'm not trying to kick you while your down but I walked in your path and it hurts. I thought I could handle my WW working with OM after d-day, nope, I was wrong their too. To much to wonder about, and too many questions as to could they be...insert any question you think of here.how many people at work know? Do you know anyone she works with? Could you ask them? What about going to his supervisor? Where did they have sex? 

Townspeople are trying to help you here, it's harsh and hurts bad, but it's up to you if you want her or to let her go. Best of luck.


----------



## jld

chaos said:


> But not in that page. Why not?
> 
> Because if you read the beginning, there are two examples given of women who are not interested in staying married. But their husbands are.
> 
> When you want to keep the marriage, but your wife does not, you have to win her back.
> 
> Did you read the whole article?
> 
> For which you gave him the link to a page that more or less states that it was his fault that his wife cheated.
> 
> Your interpretation. To me, it was an explanation so he could see things through his wife's eyes.
> 
> Knowledge is power, chaos. And I think the OP is seeking empowerment.


----------



## chaos

One last thing before I leave this thread. From that infamous page 



> When the wife has had the affair it is often more difficult to get her to give up her affair and to be willing to put effort into the marriage. *She has already checked out*.


That is a take away that the OP should etch in to his consciousness.


----------



## Wazza

My wife's affair was in 1990, with a lecturer where she was studying. 

Your wife has to work through some stuff, because it depends why she had the affair, and what sort of person she is. I don't think you can help until she is ready to, and I am sorry, but if she has gone cold turkey on sex, that is totally atypical of a spouse who is trying to reconnect, based on my experience, and the stories of other affair couples I read on TAM. I can point you to some specific threads if you are interested, and you can compare their experiences to yours. 

So the answer to your questions is (1) I don't know anything you can do to help and (2) you are already in red flag territory. 

Reconciliation is hard work even if you both want it. If you don't it is doomed to fail. Keep in mind, I reconciled. I am not trying to be negative.

Why do you want to reconcile? Because you love her? For the kids (that twas my reason)? Personal beliefs about marriage?


----------



## EleGirl

chaos said:


> jld I value and respect your input. If you read the following, you may understand why Conan and I have excoriated the advise in Cheating Wives – When the wife has the affair …:
> 
> 
> 
> When a wife cheats it is more likely that the husband has failed her in the marriage in some way, than when the husband cheats. When the husband cheats it is more likely nothing to do with his wife, or satisfaction in his marriage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now imagine for a minute if the genders were reversed and had the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a husband cheats it is more likely that the wife has failed him in the marriage in some way, than when the wife cheats. When the wife cheats it is more likely nothing to do with her husband, or satisfaction in her marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you see now, why we called this BS?
Click to expand...

I don’t see it as bull. I think that both statements are true. 

More likely means more than 50% of the time. It’s completely reasonable that in about 51% (or more) of the marriages where infidelity occurs, the BS has been a less than perfect spouse, even to the point of being down right unloving, neglectful, mean, etc. It’s reasonable to believe that being mistreated can drive a person out of their marriage. It happens all the time. Some people who find themselves in this situation chose to have an exit affair on their way out.

Posters here are often encouraged to use divorce to shock their spouse into finally taking their concerns seriously. 

Discovering that one’s spouse is having an affair and is more than half way out of the marriage can have a very similar shock to the BS who has neglected, mistreated and/or taken their spouse for granted.


----------



## ConanHub

No one makes someone fvck outside their marriage. The only person responsible for cheating is the cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Suspecting2014

Sorry you are here,

You really need to read thios thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/121442-no-sex-after-her-affair.html

Open your eyes, 

The only way, as you can read at TAM an other webs, is that you go nuk about everything, expose and file D (D is a process you can stop any time). This is the only way to slap her out of fog!!! this is your last chance!!!

There is a lot of things that u dont know about her affair, about what has happened (phisical encounters, ect) and what is going on.

**** luck, 

Read, learn


----------



## EleGirl

ConanHub said:


> No one makes someone fvck outside their marriage. The only person responsible for cheating is the cheater.


Of course no one makes another person cheat. That is not the point.


----------



## ConanHub

The site does implicate the husband in the WWs cheating. I have dealt with this way of thought for almost two decades. I know it's origin and I have witnessed it's results.

I don't have any money to make or lose on this. The people behind that site do.

I just care about humans. I have seen that system "work" maybe twice. I have seen it devastate marriages and husbands around 40x. If the damn thing worked, I would be all for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> I don’t see it as bull. I think that both statements are true.
> 
> More likely means more than 50% of the time. It’s completely reasonable that in about 51% (or more) of the marriages where infidelity occurs, the BS has been a less than perfect spouse, even to the point of being down right unloving, neglectful, mean, etc. It’s reasonable to believe that being mistreated can drive a person out of their marriage. It happens all the time. Some people who find themselves in this situation chose to have an exit affair on their way out.
> 
> Posters here are often encouraged to use divorce to shock their spouse into finally taking their concerns seriously.
> 
> Discovering that one’s spouse is having an affair and is more than half way out of the marriage can have a very similar shock to the BS who has neglected, mistreated and/or taken their spouse for granted.


We only rarely see where one spouse was a jerk in the marriage and that's why the spouse left.

In the case of women cheating, the husband takes the blame then it turns out he has become super domesticated and taken over many of the wifes traditional duties. Then his wife turns to a more attractive man to charge her "emotional " needs. Which means bjs and wild sex.

Look how often it closely coincides with the seven year itch scientists have found really exists.

Look how often the wife has some sort of depression or affairs down. Affairs with people they've never met. Women that leave their children too. Workplace affairs where it was just a matter of being around soeone else while the husband was working extra hours.

The guiding principle is damaged, unprincipled, immoral, selfish people cheat.

As far as our record goes it depends on what you call success. Helping the betrayed spouse is success. Getting a spouse to reconcile with a bad person isn't. When a wayward admits doing wrong and wants to reconcile is so rare until its too late there is nothing you can do.

45% of marriages are saved when the husband cheats. Only about 15-20% of marriages can be saved in the U.S. when the wife cheats.

Our goal is to help the poster survive. In cases like this, she is playing him. Either her boyfriend dumped her or more likely they are still banging in an empty hospital room.

Btw, if it were the husbands fault, all ocupations would be equal in infidelity statistics. Nurses and teachers wouldn't be cheating like rabbits and I would not have guessed she was a nurse before op brought it up.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, I don't know how many times I've heard nurses laughinng about nurses and doctors getting it on in empty hospital rooms on shows like the Kane show on radio and tv. One nurse asked if its as bad as you see on tv series. She laughed and said its way worse than you see on tv...........especially on the night shift.


----------



## Chaparral

I think the advicee to divorce is given too quickly. It costs too much to file. I think the pressure on the wayward spouse should be constant and sreadily increased and then fiile for divorce as the last bit of pressure that can be applied.

When I first came here I tried to encourage R for saving the family. After seeing how cruel cheaters are over more than a thousand threads, I would never enncourage R but would help if hats what the op wanted. Infidelity is only a little less painful than a real knife in the back.


----------



## EleGirl

Chaparral said:


> We only rarely see where one spouse was a jerk in the marriage and that's why the spouse left.


Here on TAM we get only one side of the story. For all we know, we are being fed a line of bull by the person posting here.



Chaparral said:


> In the case of women cheating, the husband takes the blame then it turns out he has become super domesticated and taken over many of the wifes traditional duties. Then his wife turns to a more attractive man to charge her "emotional " needs. Which means bjs and wild sex.


Again, we have no clue what the reality is in most cases here because usually only the BS posts. Very few BS on this site admit to being anything but the most perfect spouses. And when they admit to not being prefect it’s usually that they did everything.

I love the men doing women’s traditional jobs thing. 70% of married women work. 40% of married women earn more than their husbands do. So I guess 70% of women are doing at least some, if not most of the man’s traditional ‘duties’. 



Chaparral said:


> Look how often it closely coincides with the seven year itch scientists have found really exists.


All this proves is that at about 7 years, some portion of spouses cheat. Men cheat more than women do by a few percentage points. It does not prove that the BS was a wonderful spouse. Nor does it prove that they were a horrible spouse.



Chaparral said:


> Look how often the wife has some sort of depression or affairs down.


What is your point? Women and men cheat. 
Why does a person have depression? Depression is most often situational.. there is something very wrong in their lives. Well maybe it was their marriage that was very wrong.

Men who are depressed often cheat. Why is that?

Men who cheat very often “affair down”. Both men and women very often affair down. What does that prove?



Chaparral said:


> Affairs with people they've never met.


How can a person have an affair with a person they have never met?
If you are talking about cyber affairs, men have those too.


Chaparral said:


> Women that leave their children too.


Men have affairs and walk out on their children too. Statistics show that men do this far more often than women do.


Chaparral said:


> Workplace affairs where it was just a matter of being around soeone else while the husband was working extra hours.


Oh yea, all women who work and have affairs have husbands who are working extra hours … working themselves to the bones. 



Chaparral said:


> The guiding principle is damaged, unprincipled, immoral, selfish people cheat.


Yes, and damaged, unprincipled, immoral, selfish people ignore their spouse’s emotional needs, abuse their spouses, and on and on. Cheating is hardly the only immoral thing, or the worst thing, that one spouse can do to the other.



Chaparral said:


> As far as our record goes it depends on what you call success. Helping the betrayed spouse is success. Getting a spouse to reconcile with a bad person isn't. When a wayward admits doing wrong and wants to reconcile is so rare until its too late there is nothing you can do.


You assume that all BS’s are good people. Not all BS’s are. Some have mistreated their spouses horribly. 

You know all of this to be fact because you have worked as a psychiatrist, phycologist, marriage counselor, and worked with thousands of couples trying to recover from affairs, right? Not.

I can show you other forums similar to this one in which over 50% of the people who go there because of infidelity recover their marriages and go on to have a very good, strong marriage. I also know of many people in my personal life who have recovered from infidelity in their marriages and gone on to decades of very strong, happy marriages.



Chaparral said:


> 45% of marriages are saved when the husband cheats. Only about 15-20% of marriages can be saved in the U.S. when the wife cheats.


Yet more men cheat than women do. More men are serial cheaters too. So why is it that men are less likely to work on their marriages? Are women just idiots? Should women throw their cheating husbands way as easily as men throw cheating wives away?
Why is it that on TAM when a female BS comes here she gets a lot of advice to give the guy a chance and try to recover her marriage but when a male BS comes here he is told to dump is wife and go get a younger woman?




Chaparral said:


> Our goal is to help the poster survive. In cases like this, she is playing him. Either her boyfriend dumped her or more likely they are still banging in an empty hospital room.


I’m sure that you know what every woman is thinking and doing. 
So tell me, is this what men who cheat do? Do they just play their wives and only come back if their AP dumps them? Is their wife just plan B? Are the men still banging in an empty hospital room?



Chaparral said:


> Btw, if it were the husbands fault,


No one is saying that husbands are at fault for a wife choosing to have an affair. What is being said is that both spouses are responsible for the state of their marriage leading up to an affair. And in order to recover from an affair, both spouses need to look at their contribution to the problems in their marriage.


Chaparral said:


> all occupations would be equal in infidelity statistics. Nurses and teachers wouldn't be cheating like rabbits and I would not have guessed she was a nurse before op brought it up.


I don’t know where you get the idea that “Nurses and teachers are cheating like rabbits”.


----------



## EleGirl

chaos said:


> One last thing before I leave this thread. From that infamous page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the wife has had the affair it is often more difficult to get her to give up her affair and to be willing to put effort into the marriage. She has already checked out.
> 
> 
> 
> That is a take away that the OP should etch in to his consciousness.
Click to expand...

While she may have reached the point of being checked out, however with the right kind of work from both of them this can be turned around.


----------



## ConanHub

Nurses and teachers are cheating like rabbits and many male posters are not gender biased.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

I've been trained in the medical field and seen the promiscuity first hand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

ConanHub said:


> I've been trained in the medical field and seen the promiscuity first hand.


yes it's a stereo type. but there is no data to show that. Without data there is no way to know if nurses or teachers cheat more than anyone else.


----------



## azteca1986

EleGirl said:


> yes it's a stereo type. but there is no data to show that. Without data there is no way to know if nurses or teachers cheat more than anyone else.


https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/Who-cheating-Infidelity-goldengirlwp-1397674979.html


----------



## ConanHub

I know a lot of officers as well. Crazy stuff happening there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

chaos said:


> Then the same could be said about some betrayed wives as well. They treated their husbands like crap and, in your words, their husbands "returned the favor".


Give the man a cigar.

From the lyrics "Carolyn"

Yes Carolyn. A man will do that sometimes on his own
And sometimes when he's lonely
And I believe a man might do that sometimes out of spite
But Carolyn a man will do that always
When he's treated bad at home.


----------



## Duguesclin

chaos said:


> Then the same could be said about some betrayed wives as well. They treated their husbands like crap and, in your words, their husbands "returned the favor".


You are assuming that men and women think the same and therefore act in similar manners. I do not believe it is true.

Women are seeking an emotional connection first, the physical connection comes as a result of this emotional link. For men it is the exact opposite.

Unfaithfulness is not right whether a woman or man is involved. But I believe men have a lot of power in their hands to not do it and to protect their wives from doing it.


----------



## turnera

jld said:


> So to you, that is an indictment?


Yes. Quite so.

WWs only cheat because their husband is a boor, ignorant, lazy, disinterested, uncaring...

Of course, this situation is VERY common - that many men marry women expecting them to take their moms' place + sex and many women marry men expecting them to be the loving, involved men their fathers were. And both end up resentful.

But that doesn't mean it's a man's fault his wife chooses to CHEAT. Most such women simply leave. It's a persona character defect that allows those women to cheat.


----------



## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> Here on TAM we get only one side of the story. For all we know, we are being fed a line of bull by the person posting here.
> 
> 
> Again, we have no clue what the reality is in most cases here because usually only the BS posts. Very few BS on this site admit to being anything but the most perfect spouses. And when they admit to not being prefect it’s usually that they did everything.
> 
> I love the men doing women’s traditional jobs thing. 70% of married women work. 40% of married women earn more than their husbands do. So I guess 70% of women are doing at least some, if not most of the man’s traditional ‘duties’.
> 
> 
> All this proves is that at about 7 years, some portion of spouses cheat. Men cheat more than women do by a few percentage points. It does not prove that the BS was a wonderful spouse. Nor does it prove that they were a horrible spouse.
> 
> 
> What is your point? Women and men cheat.
> Why does a person have depression? Depression is most often situational.. there is something very wrong in their lives. Well maybe it was their marriage that was very wrong.
> 
> Men who are depressed often cheat. Why is that?
> 
> Men who cheat very often “affair down”. Both men and women very often affair down. What does that prove?
> 
> 
> How can a person have an affair with a person they have never met?
> If you are talking about cyber affairs, men have those too.
> 
> Men have affairs and walk out on their children too. Statistics show that men do this far more often than women do.
> 
> Oh yea, all women who work and have affairs have husbands who are working extra hours … working themselves to the bones.
> 
> 
> Yes, and damaged, unprincipled, immoral, selfish people ignore their spouse’s emotional needs, abuse their spouses, and on and on. Cheating is hardly the only immoral thing, or the worst thing, that one spouse can do to the other.
> 
> 
> You assume that all BS’s are good people. Not all BS’s are. Some have mistreated their spouses horribly.
> 
> You know all of this to be fact because you have worked as a psychiatrist, phycologist, marriage counselor, and worked with thousands of couples trying to recover from affairs, right? Not.
> 
> I can show you other forums similar to this one in which over 50% of the people who go there because of infidelity recover their marriages and go on to have a very good, strong marriage. I also know of many people in my personal life who have recovered from infidelity in their marriages and gone on to decades of very strong, happy marriages.
> 
> 
> Yet more men cheat than women do. More men are serial cheaters too. So why is it that men are less likely to work on their marriages? Are women just idiots? Should women throw their cheating husbands way as easily as men throw cheating wives away?
> Why is it that on TAM when a female BS comes here she gets a lot of advice to give the guy a chance and try to recover her marriage but when a male BS comes here he is told to dump is wife and go get a younger woman?
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sure that you know what every woman is thinking and doing.
> So tell me, is this what men who cheat do? Do they just play their wives and only come back if their AP dumps them? Is their wife just plan B? Are the men still banging in an empty hospital room?
> 
> 
> No one is saying that husbands are at fault for a wife choosing to have an affair. What is being said is that both spouses are responsible for the state of their marriage leading up to an affair. And in order to recover from an affair, both spouses need to look at their contribution to the problems in their marriage.
> 
> I don’t know where you get the idea that “Nurses and teachers are cheating like rabbits”.


Seriously? This just sounds like yet nother anti male rant that has become so coommon here. There was no sexist angle to my post. My post was just a refutation of the common idea that the betrayed spouse was the cause of their partners cheating.

Btw, explain how men could possibly cheat more than women. Who are they cheating with, Martians? Dont say they cheat with prostitutes either because selling it doesn't mean they are not cheating women, that's even worse.


----------



## ThePheonix

turnera said:


> But that doesn't mean it's a man's fault his wife chooses to CHEAT. Most such women simply leave. It's a persona character defect that allows those women to cheat.


There's probably a 1:5 chance you'll marry someone who will cheat regardless of your behavior. But you have these cats that are married 2-3 times and all the wives cheat on them. It appears they have sh-tty luck picking women or they are doing something to turn their wives off. 
If guys want to seek comfort in, "its 100% the cheating wives fault so you're doing nothing that makes them want seek outside interest", and never examine their own activity, its their prerogative.


----------



## turnera

Yeah. I always tell people to read Getting The Love You Want when single; it does a good job explaining what kind of person you pick and why - good or bad.


----------



## jld

turnera said:


> But that doesn't mean it's a man's fault his wife chooses to CHEAT. Most such women simply leave. It's a persona character defect that allows those women to cheat.


Well, my understanding is that cheating is a choice. And because it is a choice, a different choice can be made in future. People are not bound by "personal character defects."

And it may be easier to make a different choice if certain conditions are present.


----------



## jld

ThePheonix said:


> *If guys want to seek comfort in, "its 100% the cheating wives fault so you're doing nothing that makes them want seek outside interest", and never examine their own activity,* its their prerogative.


Often the case. But it leaves them feeling victimized, not empowered. I think the OP is seeking empowerment.


----------



## turnera

jld said:


> Well, my understanding is that cheating is a choice. And because it is a choice, a different choice can be made in future. People are not bound by "personal character defects."
> 
> And it may be easier to make a different choice if certain conditions are present.


Doesn't make it the other person's fault.


----------



## jld

turnera said:


> Doesn't make it the other person's fault.


No one is saying it is.


----------



## turnera

Glad you agree.


----------



## Chaparral

This could the most ridiculous thread jack I've seen here yet.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, if you want to see the lists of what professions cheat the most........GOOGLE IT!


----------



## chaos

jld said:


> No one is saying it is.


The gripe is not against you, its against that BAN page in particular. It puzzles me why you, elegirl, and ThePhoenix take offense to my, and other members, criticisms of its content.

If Gas wants to buy into what that BAN page states, so be it. But as that old saying goes, "let the buyer beware".


----------



## chaos

EleGirl said:


> Yet more men cheat than women do.


That is no longer the case. *The New Face Of Infidelity*. Do the research for yourself and you will find out that infidelity experts have been stating an increase in the cases of female infidelity to the point where almost half their clients are betrayed husbands. This probably includes the BAN experts as well.




> Why is it that on TAM when a female BS comes here she gets a lot of advice to give the guy a chance and try to recover her marriage but when a male BS comes here he is told to dump is wife and go get a younger woman?


Not me. I would tell any betrayed wife to kick her cheating husband to the curb and file for divorce. And not talk to him until he comes back crying on his hands and knees begging for another chance.

As far why the other forum members would ofter different advise, it may have to do with that quote from that BAN page that states that when a woman has an affair, she has checked out of the marriage. Like it or not, it is extremely harder for a marriage to recover from that scenario. It would seem that the experts from BAN agree.


----------



## jld

That page was written in 2013. If it has not been updated, then I would say their experience is holding true.


----------



## ThePheonix

chaos said:


> It puzzles me why you, elegirl, and ThePhoenix take offense to my, and other members, criticisms of its content.


Why do you think I take offense at your criticism of its content? I'm not sure what "it" says. I simply believe the behavior of one spouse can sometimes cause the other to take evasive action. Cheating is one of the options on the table.

You also said, "Not me. I would tell any betrayed wife to kick her cheating husband to the curb and file for divorce. And not talk to him until he comes back crying on his hands and knees begging for another chance."

We're in lock step on this one Dawg;for both men and women. (If you want a successful reconciliation anyway)


----------



## Q tip

....anyway, we all agree that even understanding why NEVER justifies infidelity. Ever.

It is the choice, for whatever reason of the cheat. And it is the wrong choice.

Extraordinarily bad judgement.


----------



## OldWolf57

Looks like Elvis has left the building folks.


----------



## ThePheonix

His wife may be AWOL and he's out looking for her OldWolf.


----------



## chaos

OldWolf57 said:


> Looks like Elvis has left the building folks.


Elvis may be lurking while eating fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches.


----------



## ConanHub

Chaparral said:


> This could the most ridiculous thread jack I've seen here yet.


Mind reader!&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet

Mr Right said:


> If you want your wife to reconnect, IMO YOU need to work on yourself and become the man your wife and most men want to be. I have found this "system" to be a good help, and it also covers affairs.


While most of the time I'd view this as caving to some sort of extortion from the cheating wife, it is good advice. If for nothing more than working on himself for HIM, not specifically for her.

And if he becomes the man she wants, then he should have his standards of her as well. He shouldn't just accept her back with open arms out of relief. She has ALOT of righting to do of her wrongs.


----------



## chaos

Any self improvements that GasRN undertakes to become a better man and a better husband should be independent of the final outcome of his marriage. They should be for his benefit and not to win his wife back.


----------



## vellocet

jld said:


> In many places there, they say that the affair is 100% the responsibility of the one who had the affair. But the OP is specifically asking what he can do to win back his wife's heart, to get her to reattach.



First step is to deal with the affair. She is still seeing the OM, at work at the very least.

As long as she is still in some sort of contact with him, there will be no reattachment.

So first step, she needs to start looking for another job. That is the VERY LEAST if this marriage is to survive. If she doesn't want to do that, then she needs to be given a pink slip.

Not saying she should quit her job outright, but start looking while keeping current job and she does not stop until she finds one. She should be sending out a resume a week.


----------



## vellocet

jld said:


> Well, my understanding is that cheating is a choice. And because it is a choice, a different choice can be made in future. People are not bound by "personal character defects."


Only those with serious character defects DO choose cheating.

Don't believe me? If you have 2 marriages, one person takes their situation and chooses to cheat....in another marriage with similar circumstances, the person perceived as having a "reason" does not cheat. What is the difference between the 2 people?............character.


----------



## Wazza

GasRN, in case you are still reading, I will do some thinking in the next 24 hours and give you a list of threads that might give you some ideas. They will be people I followed in real time, who went through this process.

I came to TAM 23 years after my wife's affair. Actually I was looking for marriage enrichment ideas when I found it, not infidelity advice. But it helped me a lot to read what others had gone through. Some succeed, some don't. The broad truths I read on TAM held true for my marriage, but there was variation in the details.

Maybe part of it for you is to find other threads by people who are going through the same things you are. There is one in particular, called "reconciliation", started by a guy called B1, that I think you might find helpful. 

FWIW, I essentially waited out my wife's affair. I did not kick her to the curb. You have probably gathered from all the discussion that this is a spectacularly bad idea, and doomed to fail. No person in their right mind would contemplate attempting it. But it worked for me. 

Talk later, if you are still around.


----------



## Wazza

vellocet said:


> Only those with serious character defects DO choose cheating.
> 
> Don't believe me? If you have 2 marriages, one person takes their situation and chooses to cheat....in another marriage with similar circumstances, the person perceived as having a "reason" does not cheat. What is the difference between the 2 people?............character.


GasRN, this is a question you will have to grapple with. I think Vellocet has a valid point, though I would say that it's more complicated than that. My view is that there are degrees of personality defect. You need to understand why your wife failed...what the defect was and how circumstances fed it. I hope it is something more than "he was a player and she fell for it" because if that is the truth, how do you avoid a repeat?

Vellocet's marriage ended due to his wife's infidelity. He attempted reconciliation but couldn't get over what she had done. So this is very real and practical to him.


----------



## Wazza

Chaparral said:


> Only 1 in 3 marriages successfully reconcile.


GasRN, take statistics like this on board, but challenge them. Just because a "fact" comes up in Google a lot doesn't make it true.

Of course, that could be good news, maybe 2 in 3 reconciliation are successful. Or bad news, maybe only 1 in 5 marriages successfully reconcile  But you only care about one marriage here!


----------



## vellocet

chaos said:


> Yes. And I dare say that many men reading that would agree with me.


:iagree:

An indictment indeed, to say nothing about past posts that have the betrayed husband wrapping himself around the finger of the cheating wife from her.



jld said:


> When a wife cheats it is more likely that the husband has failed her in the marriage in some way, than when the husband cheats. When the husband cheats it is more likely nothing to do with his wife, or satisfaction in his marriage.


Here we go again 

Woman cheats: Its the husband's fault

Man cheats: Not the wife's fault



*Sorry about that GasRN, but it had to be said. Not sure why this women good, men bad crap is showing up in your thread*.


----------



## ConanHub

vellocet said:


> :iagree:
> 
> An indictment indeed, to say nothing about past posts that have the betrayed husband wrapping himself around the finger of the cheating wife from her.
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again
> 
> Woman cheats: Its the husband's fault
> 
> Man cheats: Not the wife's fault
> 
> 
> 
> *Sorry about that GasRN, but it had to be said. Not sure why this women good, men bad crap is showing up in your thread*.


Yup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

vellocet said:


> Here we go again
> 
> Woman cheats: Its the husband's fault
> 
> Man cheats: Not the wife's fault
> 
> 
> 
> *Sorry about that GasRN, but it had to be said. Not sure why this women good, men bad crap is showing up in your thread*.


Does it _really_ surprise you? It's not like she doesn't have a consistent track record for spewing this crap.


----------



## just got it 55

Chaparral said:


> She fell in love with him. She literally gave up everything for him. It would still be going on if you had not caught it. Now you think she can work with a man she loves, seeing him every day and will get over him? The clincher is she cut you off to remain faithful to him and show you in her own way what she thinks of you.


GasRN....You would be very wise to pay attention to this post

55


----------



## just got it 55

jld said:


> I found something that might be what you are looking for, OP, though it is probably against the TAM orthodoxy.
> 
> Cheating Wives - When the wife has the affair
> _
> *There is tremendous hope for couples where the wife has been unfaithful, because the betrayed husband is serious about becoming the man he needs to be for his wife, and the changes he makes stick, so now more than ever the wife can have the husband she always wanted with the man she married*. The illusion that things will be better with the affair partner is exactly that, an illusion. In real life the other man comes with his own set of character flaws, and the loving courtship behaviors that are present in the secret relationship, don’t continue if the affair becomes a marriage._


Where the FVCK is my dislike button

If you are going to spout nonsense like this

Don't quote Dieda

55


----------



## FrenchFry

If OP doesn't agree with anyone in this thread, he can decide on his own merit without attacking other posters.


----------



## chaos

FrenchFry said:


> If OP doesn't agree with anyone in this thread, he can decide on his own merit without attacking other posters.


As an old saying goes, we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.


----------



## 3putt

chaos said:


> As an old saying goes, we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.


Sometimes some people need to be called out, lest other newbies that come along actually believe some of the crap they dish out.

Anyone backhandedly/subtlety blaming the BS for their WS's adultery is one of those times, IMO.


----------



## FrenchFry

Newbies, if they are capable of posting on a forum are also capable of reading multiple responses to a thread, all of which may not agree.

"Calling out" by attacking the character of a poster or their spouse under the guise of helping noobs is silly. 

The thing to do here is if you have an issue with the idea, attack the idea. If you have an issue with a poster, report the offending posts.


----------



## 3putt

FrenchFry said:


> Newbies, if they are capable of posting on a forum are also capable of reading multiple responses to a thread, all of which may not agree.
> 
> "Calling out" by attacking the character of a poster or their spouse under the guise of helping noobs is silly.
> 
> The thing to do here is if you have an issue with the idea, attack the idea. If you have an issue with a poster, report the offending posts.


With all due respect, FrenchFry, have you actually read any of the posts in multiple threads to what we are referring? The words and stances that are proposed by this poster are actually damaging and dangerous.

We're all here trying to help people during a very painful time; a time most of us have been through. This particular poster's only interest is in trying to play 'Pin the Tail on the Donkey' on the wrong donkey. Her comments are agenda driven for her own satisfaction, and that's to blameshift.

I'm not alone in this belief.

I know, I'll be taking a nap now.


----------



## Vulcan2013

I have an issue with thread jacks. Have an opinion on this topic, but there's been enough back-forth for the OP to make up his own mind.


----------



## 3putt

Vulcan2013 said:


> I have an issue with thread jacks. Have an opinion on this topic, but there's been enough back-forth for the OP to make up his own mind.


That's another issue that should indeed be addressed. Especially, as I stated above, when it's agenda driven, not help driven.


----------



## helolover

3putt said:


> Sometimes some people need to be called out, lest other newbies that come along actually believe some of the crap they dish out.
> 
> Anyone backhandedly/subtlety blaming the BS for their WS's adultery is one of those times, IMO.



Concur.


----------



## FrenchFry

If you are still awake...

If you are finding a posters posts dangerous, report it. Damaging, report it. All mods see it and while I may interpret posting one way, another might do so in another way. When in doubt, give a shout out.

Lots of people have agendas on this board and they are all not going to agree. We don't have to, fortunately but shutting different ideas out of a thread because there is disagreement will stagnate a forum.

I sure as hell don't agree with everyone who posts here but unless they are a breaking forum rules or here only to cause ruckus, it wouldn't be right to ban them because I disagree.

I don't see anything wrong with pointing out fallacies, sharing opposite experiences or even giving tough* love* (not namecalling and bullying though) in a thread. I don't get down with pointless character attacks and we had started down that path in this thread.

I don't know if OP is coming back in this case, it didn't seem like he was ready for this kind of discussion.


----------



## 3putt

FrenchFry said:


> If you are still awake...
> 
> If you are finding a posters posts dangerous, report it. Damaging, report it. All mods see it and while I may interpret posting one way, another might do so in another way. When in doubt, give a shout out.
> 
> Lots of people have agendas on this board and they are all not going to agree. We don't have to, fortunately but shutting different ideas out of a thread because there is disagreement will stagnate a forum.
> 
> I sure as hell don't agree with everyone who posts here but unless they are a breaking forum rules or here only to cause ruckus, it wouldn't be right to ban them because I disagree.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with pointing out fallacies, sharing opposite experiences or even giving tough* love* (not namecalling and bullying though) in a thread. I don't get down with pointless character attacks and *we had started down that path in this thread.*
> 
> I don't know if OP is coming back in this case, it didn't seem like he was ready for this kind of discussion.


Just remember who started this t/j down that path, and not just on this thread. Again, it's not the first time she has done this and it won't be the last. 

I'll quit while I'm behind.


----------



## Q tip

Who was it who mention Godwin.

It's coming. 

OP, if you're reading. It's complicated. Folks here veered a bit since you weren't providing input.


----------



## happy as a clam

3putt said:


> Just remember who started this t/j down that path, and not just on this thread. Again, it's not the first time she has done this and it won't be the last.
> 
> I'll quit while I'm behind.


I agree. Completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

For clarification, I don't agree that the affair is willy nelly due to way a betrayed spouse treated the wayward. A tortfessor is always 100% responsible for their actions whether it be cheating, leaving, or just putting up with the perceived bad treatment. Some spouses have cheating in their blood. I believe 1 out of 5 will cheat if the right opportunity comes along.
Nonetheless, a pre-betrayed spouse's actions oftentimes lowers romantic interest and/or respect and can push the other spouse over the edge to one of the big three; leaving you with your hat in your hand, cutting off "affection" or toying with another guy/girl. When respect is gone, there is no incentive to be true to you.
I submit its somewhat of a dis-service to say, "hey, the affair is 100% on your cheating spouse. All their previous complaints about you are irrelevant and just hold their feet to the fire". You may be giving them the same advice a couple or three years down the road.


----------



## chaos

The OP is not a child that has to be protected by attacking another forum member for her comments.

We gave him our thoughts as to the validity of the information provided on that BAN page. He is free to choose on how best to proceed for his particular situation.

Attacking the messenger is nothing more than a vile form of tyranny that must be called out.


----------



## soccermom2three

Just because you don't agree with a post doesn't mean it's a thread jack.


----------



## Wazza

GasRN, I promised to provide links to some threads that may help. 

If there is one thread on TAM that can help you, this is it. This thread tends to be populated by people who are pro reconciliation, and the mods keep things a bit more sheltered there. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html

This is B1’s thread (B1 started the reconciliation thread). His wife EI (originally empty inside) also had a thread but it appears to be gone:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48667-wifes-affair-how-move-forward.html 

Mr and Mrs Mathias' threads. Mrs Mathias had an affair with a student. They both came here while the affair was ongoing, so you will see one main thread from Mr Mathias. Mrs Mathias had a thread while the affair was ongoing, and another after the continuation was uncovered by Mr Mathias.

Mr abd Mrs Mathias
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61098-third-strike.html 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61164-three-strikes-mrs.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...oo-many-ruined-chances-count-mrs_mathias.html 

See if any of that helps. I can point to other threads, but maybe you start with the Reconciliation thread and look for people's stories based on what you find there.


----------



## lordmayhem

I see no indications here where the OP's WW is even near ready for reconciliation. In fact, it looks like the affair is now underground. If the WW continues to work with the OM, then NC cannot ever be maintained. I see no indications that the OP is even monitoring anything. The fact that the WW is still detached emotionally (and sexually) indicates the affair is still on. It's typical for the WS to remain faithful to their affair partner.

A truly remorseful WS will be pulling out the stops to heal the marriage and do the heavy lifting. And here we see a BS yet again...as the one who is trying to heal the marriage despite being the one who was betrayed.

This is False R. Of course, this may yet be another one of those cases where the BS has to learn the hard way in spite of getting the good advice of those who have been in his shoes. The collective wisdom borne of all the experiences of BSs here in this forum is ignored because the BS is in denial. Oh well. It's his loss if he doesn't listen. There are others out there and will continue to join the forum as days go by that need the help and the collective wisdom/experience of the forum.


----------



## ThePheonix

lordmayhem said:


> I see no indications that the OP is even monitoring anything.


I think he said he's tracking her via GPS on her phone when she's at work or at the gym. You know, the phone she leaves in her desk drawer or in the locker at the gym. Or even her car and phone a friend drove to the gym on her behalf. 
Besides, we had a vacant supply closet in the local college that saw more action than the "Rooms by the Hour" Motel.


----------



## Chaparral

He was on TAM last night and I assume he is still reading his thread.


----------



## lordmayhem

ThePheonix said:


> I think he said he's tracking her via GPS on her phone when she's at work or at the gym. You know, the phone she leaves in her desk drawer or in the locker at the gym. Or even her car and phone a friend drove to the gym on her behalf.
> Besides, we had a vacant supply closet in the local college that saw more action than the "Rooms by the Hour" Motel.


:iagree:

So easy to get a burner phone these days, and OM can pick her up at the gym, etc, etc. Or they can pretend to go to work, and use their vacation/sick time. So many possibilities because they still work together. This is why No Contact is so essential in ending the affair, she CANNOT continue to work with the OM, there is absolutely NO middle ground on this, none. 

A few years ago, we had a thread by a BS, where he read the OM's email to his WW, where the OM complained about the WW refusing him sex in the elevator, so she did him in her office instead. I don't know if anyone remembers that one.


----------



## ThePheonix

Its like the cabinet maker said Lordmayhem, "giving them a good shellacing takes less time than you think it would."


----------



## pilotranger

Hi GasRN,

Looks like you and I are going through the same thing. Just found out with evidence my wife has been having an affair with a former co-worker. I'm numb at this point.


----------



## GusPolinski

pilotranger said:


> Hi GasRN,
> 
> Looks like you and I are going through the same thing. Just found out with evidence my wife has been having an affair with a former co-worker. I'm numb at this point.


Damn. Sorry man. Just found your thread from last year...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...tionate-intimate-im-running-low-patience.html

Have you confronted your wife yet?


----------



## Chaparral

pilotranger said:


> Hi GasRN,
> 
> Looks like you and I are going through the same thing. Just found out with evidence my wife has been having an affair with a former co-worker. I'm numb at this point.


You should update your thread and move it to cwi.

Good luck


----------



## Wazza

Chaparral said:


> You should update your thread and move it to cwi.
> 
> Good luck


GasRN, there are a few ways "Talk About Marriage" can be useful to you. 

I know some of the stuff you read on your thread upset you. If you don't think this thread is helpful, you can let it die. Maybe join the "Reconciliation" thread I linked to.

If this thread is useful to you, Chaparral is right. Update it and move it to "cwi", which is the "Coping With Infidelity" section of the website.

You need some support somewhere. You have a lot to work through. It's a hard thing to deal with. Others who have been through it can help you.


----------



## Chaparral

Wazza said:


> GasRN, there are a few ways "Talk About Marriage" can be useful to you.
> 
> I know some of the stuff you read on your thread upset you. If you don't think this thread is helpful, you can let it die. Maybe join the "Reconciliation" thread I linked to.
> 
> If this thread is useful to you, Chaparral is right. Update it and move it to "cwi", which is the "Coping With Infidelity" section of the website.
> 
> You need some support somewhere. You have a lot to work through. It's a hard thing to deal with. Others who have been through it can help you.


I was actually posting to pilotranger. He had a thread a couple of years ago and evidently just found out the real reason she was treating him badly.

More info is needed from this poster, too much speculation with little to go on.


----------



## happy as a clam

I am starting to see a disturbing trend on some recent threads where OP's are not returning, almost like they feel driven out. (I realize there are many "one hit wonders" on forums, but I see a pattern here.) 

I attribute much of this to what I am now calling *"Agenda Threadjacks."*

I hope OP returns, but I fear he is gone for good. He was getting some very good advice.


----------



## happy as a clam

happy as a clam said:


> I attribute much of this to what I am now calling *"Agenda Threadjacks."*


Thanks to all who have "liked" or supported my position. I hope the Mods will take notice of my position.
I think most of us here are offering heartfelt advice that we KNOW works when dealing with infidelity.

Happily married couples -- especially when they're "tag-teaming" *rote advice* regarding "active listening" on an anonymous forum, who really don't understand the fundamentals of infidelity because they've NEVER EXPERIENCED it -- and continue to spout the "active listening" jargon present a danger to NEWBIES. All the while, *knowing *that this a tool developed and designed for TRAINED THERAPISTS to use as a tool in doctor-client PRIVACY... It was never intended to be used, as clearly stated by John Gottman, OUTSIDE of the therapist/client relationship.

May I add that "Fireproof" is a MOVIE, with *scripted lines?!?!*

Life doesn't always work out as neatly as SCRIPTED Hollywood lines?

I can only imagine the circular conversations going on in some households: 

Wife: "Here's what I SAID." 

Husband: "Here's what I think I HEARD you say (active listening -- whatever the h*ll that is!)

Wife: "You're WRONG. Here's what I ACTUALLY said."

Husband: "I think you said, and meant, this."

Wife: "No, this is what I said, this is what I meant."

Husband: "Oh, I'm sorry Darling. I thought you meant THIS." 

This is based on Gottman's work even though he CLEARLY STATED (over and over) that "active listening" was designed to be used by TRAINED PROFESSIONALS in a therapeutic setting, where clients are *paying MONEY.* He was ADAMANT to make this distinction so that the lines don't get "blurred" between patient/clients. Using it in a relationship, where one partner parrots back what the other partner THINKS they heard is not effective.

I think Gottman would feel ill if he saw how his therapy is being distorted for "convenience" and internet forum therapy. So easy to morph anyone's problems into ALL being solved by "active listening." 

*ugh*...

If this gets me banned then I accept it. I only hope Mods will read all the "likes", PMs I've received, and comments to understand that there is truth to what I am saying.

Certain "agendas" drive OP's away. I respect everyone's opinion, but IMHO some people are here to just "stir the pot" and then NEVER return to the original thread to view the outcome of said advice.

OPs are running away in flocks.


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## Duguesclin

Happy, neither JLD nor I have ever reported anyone. We value free speech.


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## Vulcan2013

It's not just those 2. After one or two rounds of back and forth, it's not about the OP anymore. 

A simple "exposure =/= stoning" would do it.


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## chaos

On the bright side, it causes the thread to be bumped to the top and it just might help the OP to locate it more easily. Just saying.


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## ThePheonix

happy as a clam said:


> I am starting to see a disturbing trend on some recent threads where OP's are not returning, almost like they feel driven out.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWhr2xevNKY

Many lack the wherewithal to do much about it anyway. They learn to make the best of a bad situation.


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## farsidejunky

happy as a clam said:


> Thanks to all who have "liked" or supported my position. I hope the Mods will take notice of my position.
> I think most of us here are offering heartfelt advice that we KNOW works when dealing with infidelity.
> 
> Happily married couples -- especially when they're "tag-teaming" *rote advice* regarding "active listening" on an anonymous forum, who really don't understand the fundamentals of infidelity because they've NEVER EXPERIENCED it -- and continue to spout the "active listening" jargon present a danger to NEWBIES. All the while, *knowing *that this a tool developed and designed for TRAINED THERAPISTS to use as a tool in doctor-client PRIVACY... It was never intended to be used, as clearly stated by John Gottman, OUTSIDE of the therapist/client relationship.
> 
> May I add that "Fireproof" is a MOVIE, with *scripted lines?!?!*
> 
> Life doesn't always work out as neatly as SCRIPTED Hollywood lines?
> 
> I can only imagine the circular conversations going on in some households:
> 
> Wife: "Here's what I SAID."
> 
> Husband: "Here's what I think I HEARD you say (active listening -- whatever the h*ll that is!)
> 
> Wife: "You're WRONG. Here's what I ACTUALLY said."
> 
> Husband: "I think you said, and meant, this."
> 
> Wife: "No, this is what I said, this is what I meant."
> 
> Husband: "Oh, I'm sorry Darling. I thought you meant THIS."
> 
> This is based on Gottman's work even though he CLEARLY STATED (over and over) that "active listening" was designed to be used by TRAINED PROFESSIONALS in a therapeutic setting, where clients are *paying MONEY.* He was ADAMANT to make this distinction so that the lines don't get "blurred" between patient/clients. Using it in a relationship, where one partner parrots back what the other partner THINKS they heard is not effective.
> 
> I think Gottman would feel ill if he saw how his therapy is being distorted for "convenience" and internet forum therapy. So easy to morph anyone's problems into ALL being solved by "active listening."
> 
> *ugh*...
> 
> If this gets me banned then I accept it. I only hope Mods will read all the "likes", PMs I've received, and comments to understand that there is truth to what I am saying.
> 
> Certain "agendas" drive OP's away. I respect everyone's opinion, but IMHO some people are here to just "stir the pot" and then NEVER return to the original thread to view the outcome of said advice.
> 
> OPs are running away in flocks.


HAAC:

Group think has much more potential for harm than expression of differing opinions.

Your singling out of folks with ridicule is disappointing. I really expected better from you.


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## happy as a clam

farsidejunky said:


> HAAC:
> 
> Group think has much more potential for harm than expression of differing opinions.
> 
> Your singling out of folks with ridicule is disappointing. I really expected better from you.


Sorry to disappoint, farside.

And I am certainly not an advocate of "group think." To the contrary, my favorite threads here are the ones that showcase many different view points and opinions. I have no problem with people expressing their opinions, but not if it serves to jack someone else's thread, cause dissension or confusion, and take it off topic. I also was not "ridiculing" anyone. I was illustrating the circular nature of "active listening" and what it's intended purpose is.

I am not the only one frustrated (judging by the many other poster's comments) with threads that begin as someone's personal issue and turn into someone else's "platform". 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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