# Men, don't tell your wife everything..(?)



## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.

I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.

Mostly in regards to stressful events. 
As men, we must not show fear, anxieties, crying etc. This is what we're taught.

For example, a business venture went sour? Figure out the solution, do not stress the wife.
A certain event makes you sad? It's OK to grieve, but don't get mopey.
Can't make a mortgage payment? Again, figure it out..
And I'm just grasping examples here, but you get my drift.
If we are to remain the protector, is there certain information we must not disclose to our SO and only share the situation after the storm has passed and a solution achieved?
Heck, I'm also maybe even referring to health issues..

Women, did you realize your husband wasn't this superman you believed to be and if so, how did that affect your relationship with him?

Fellas...your thoughts?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> *I'm not referring to* infidelity, lies, *financial* etc.
> 
> ...


This seems contradictory.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I wouldn't want a husband who kept things from me. I don't need him to be superman.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I doubt that most women expect their husband to be a superman. Is this a fantasy that some guys have, that they are "superman" to their wife?

I just want an honest man who does not lie, not even by omission.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


I think it very much depends on the people involved.

To generalise is not right.


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## Imnobodynew (Feb 11, 2016)

Yeah. I agree with the other posters. I tried that superman crap. That Hollywood social engineering. I glad I can be honest around my wife and feel safe. You know it encourages her to do the same thing. 

Part of the reason we had so much trouble in our 7 year ich was becuase we couldnt be honest to each other as to where were at. 

The last problem I have with that statement is that people change. What your wanted when you young and dumb may not be what she wants now. How would you know if you can't be honest?

Sounds really egotistical which is the killer to self esteem. Self esteem is where you draw true confidence and real love come from ...

I 100% disagree with your advice except: Dont dump your troubles on your partner. Shared troubles become shared victories. Learn to work with your partner, not trigger.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Absolutely disagree.

Men should share their issues, challenges, and feelings. What you shouldn't do is look to your wife to fix things for you.

That is often seen as weak and makes her feel insecure. We fix things for our children....not our man.

But sharing your thoughts and addressing your issues together is what a good partnership is about. We are happy to support you and assist as we can.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


I knew when I married my husband he wasn't superman. Mine's better. He's home, he pays attention to me, he shares with me. I can actually count on mine. Could you imagine Superman? He's always running off to solve everyone elses problems and yours would never rate high enough to even discuss.

Tongue in cheek but accurate.

You are crazy if you think all women want some phony, fake hero with no problems. I DO want someone I can trust. I DO want someone I can count on. Does that mean I want them to lie about finances or their feelings? NO.

Count on means if I say hey I need you to call this place at noon and cancel an order then by 1 pm it's done (if you agreed to do it). If I'm sick and can't feed my fish. You'll feed my fish and maybe feed me. 

I also want to be a partner they can count on. I'm not helpless, I'm not fragile. If they are sick, I'll feed the chickens. I'll feed them. 

I want a partnership. Your version of a relationship is screwed up. I mean I will say there are probably some women that want that until they find out you've been lying.

I think it is a matter of picking quality people to partner with. Try picking with something other than your **** and you'll probably find that there are many women who want to help you and share in your life.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Complaining about work constantly is a bad look for a man or woman in my opinion. Fortunately you’re not compelled to work, so instead of complaining about it you can change it.

Being sad because your pet died or something, what’s the alternative? Even a sociopath would probably at least pretend to be sad as to not draw attention.

Health issues again you’re a team. Even if you don’t feel like you need emotional or physical support if you’re having issues that could say effect your income it’s much better to disclose early and also be a responsible partner and get the maximum disability insurance you’re allowed to buy. In my case I carry the maximum disability for the maximum duration because my wife expects my income. I do not expect her income so she doesn’t.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> I knew when I married my husband he wasn't superman. Mine's better. He's home, he pays attention to me, he shares with me. I can actually count on mine. Could you imagine Superman? He's always running off to solve everyone elses problems and yours would never rate high enough to even discuss.
> 
> Tongue in cheek but accurate.
> 
> ...


Whoa..whoa...calm down. Remember you are with child..

I'm crazy? I think w my ****?
Ok..I see how my question completely flew over your head and others..


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Removed


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Whoa..whoa...calm down. Remember you are with child..
> 
> I'm crazy? I think w my ****?
> Ok..I see how my question completely flew over your head and others..


I don't see how it flew over my head. You are claiming if you want to be the provider, protector and such you have to lie and be phony or your woman won't look up to you (implied respect or perhaps love).

It's the same red pill **** we see a lot of....

I love and respect my husband. He is my knight in shining armor but he's human and I love that about him because he's honest with me. That builds trust.

ETA: I'm not sure what the heck you are talking about with child... Is it supposed to be some kind of insult?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

DoctorManhattan said:


> <snip> Women, did you realize your husband wasn't this superman you believed to be and if so, how did that affect your relationship with him?


My husband isn't a superman--he's a Staff Sargeant in the US Army. There's a difference. Yeah, he leads and yeah he's tough as nails, but let's go through your examples:

*...a business venture went sour? Figure out the solution, do not stress the wife.*
Uh, no. When he's in the Army, I'm his partner holding down the fort. When he's a civilian, whatever business he's in is of interest to me and I'm a partner in hearing the highs and lows. Since I don't work that actual job, I may not understand every detail in the way he does, but as a couple, we are a team. If something in his business goes south, then we're in it together. 

*...a certain event makes you sad? It's OK to grieve, but don't get mopey.*
Again, no. If he's remembering the anniversary of a family-member who passed away, we're in it together. I might be able to listen to a fond memory, or give him a place to vent, or offer a shoulder and a hug. I would expect sharing, not withholding or hiding emotions. This is the equivalent of emotional infidelity.

*...can't make a mortgage payment? Again, figure it out.*
OH HELL NO! I'd consider this financial infidelity! There are several legitimate reasons why a person might have difficulty making a mortgage payment, but this is 100% a burden that I believe should be borne by both partners and will affect both partners. Can you imagine finding out you are X months behind on your mortgage when you thought it was being paid all along? (BTW, I've had that happen to me.) So no. Hard no. If a job was lost, the other partner helps or two jobs are worked but the two get together and work out a solution, and then they both work toward that solution. 

*...I'm also maybe even referring to health issues.*
Again, Hard No. I understand the concept of medical privacy and as such, I wouldn't dig around but I absolutely would and do expect sharing. If one of us were to have an illness or injury, I expect it to be shared and then the two of us would tackle it together--from rides to the doctor appointments to treatment methods. Now, I would expect that he'd make the final decision regarding his own health and vice versa, but I would also expect we'd talk it out and then support each other in our decisions even if we disagree. Keeping this a secret would be medical infidelity.

You said: "_If we are to remain the protector, is there certain information we must not disclose to our SO and only share the situation after the storm has passed and a solution achieved?_"

No--keeping it hidden and secret until after it's passed would be a betrayal, in my opinion. I "get it" that sometimes a swift decision has to be made in the moment, but that would be an urgent, rare thing, not something that's routinely done. By hiding and keeping the truth secret, you remove all the spouse's agency and ability to live in reality--essentially creating a false life for them. They would literally be blindsided! Whereas if you kept them up-to-date and informed, they may not be happy or may not like it, but at least they'd have the opportunity to face reality and make decisions based on what's REAL and not on the false illusion. 

In my opinion, this "advice" is far, Far, FAR off base for a healthy relationship.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Whoa..whoa...calm down. Remember you are with child..
> 
> I'm crazy? I think w my ****?
> Ok..I see how my question completely flew over your head and others..


Patronising and condescending *&_#-&


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

There is some truth to what the OP is saying. It depends on the wife, though. My wife, absolutely sometimes needs me to just take care of something and not "freak out". There is a balance to it - not to be a robot, but know when to keep your emotions in check.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> I knew when I married my husband he wasn't superman. Mine's better. He's home, he pays attention to me, he shares with me. I can actually count on mine. Could you imagine Superman? He's always running off to solve everyone elses problems and yours would never rate high enough to even discuss.
> 
> Tongue in cheek but accurate.
> 
> ...


I was married to said phony......had to protect his phony image at all costs. Buried everything because he was terrified of conflict, but burying things that bother you ultimately leads to resentment and other ways of getting your frustrations out. Short fuse and nasty, passive aggressive behavior was something I experienced regularly.

Never again.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Is this a fantasy that some guys have, that they are "superman" to their wife?


Advice to married men, don't buy the leotards until you find out if your W is into it.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Absolutely disagree.
> 
> Men should share their issues, challenges, and feelings. What you shouldn't do is look to your wife to fix things for you.
> 
> ...


Granted, I agree; we shouldn't look to our spouse to fix us, nobody wants a momma's boy.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> I was married to said phony......had to protect his phony image at all costs. Buried everything because he was terrified of conflict, but burying things that bother you ultimately leads to resentment and other ways of getting your frustrations out. Short fuse and nasty, passive aggressive behavior was something I experienced regularly.
> 
> Never again.


Phony is one thing, admitting to one's faults and being transparent and honest with your spouse is something else.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Removed


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Phony is one thing, admitting to one's faults and being transparent and honest with your spouse is something else.


Not really. Hiding your faults and not being transparent is the same as phony.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sure sounds like he’s implying you’re irrational. Also sounds like he thinks all women are irrational morons. 🙄


Well I'm not with child but you think he's impying that women with child are irrational? I just don't even get that.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Removed


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The kind of relationship you’re describing isn’t a healthy adult relationship. You’re infantilizing the woman by assuming she’s too weak to understand or handle problems. You’re putting her future at risk by lying to her. You’re pretending to be something you’re not, again, lying. You view your wife as a stupid child, not a valuable, sentient adult. No intelligent, worthwhile woman wants to live with such deep contempt and disrespect. It’s insulting and cruel.


it's amazing how you gathered all that from my question?
I view my wife as someone to love , cherish, and protect. She's made me a better person. 
Nowhere in my post do i say my partner is a stupid child etc etc.

I'm in a very solid relationship now, wheras my first marriage, well, no. Well, no... many reasons.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Removed


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Removed


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And so you lie to her about everything because she’s too weak and stupid to deal with the real world. She’s like a pet or a child. That’s gross.


How is it a solid relationship if they can't discuss things that make him sad or having trouble making the mortgage or a business that's failing?

That's kind of what makes a marriage a marriage. It's the bad times that define a good relationship. Anyone can be in a relationship when everything is hunky dory.

I kind of like the fart test.

If you and your spouse are comfortable passing gas in the same room then you probably share lots of things. If you run out of the room because your SO doesn't know you are a human with a digestive system then you probably aren't all that open.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


As a woman, I have to say that personally, I disagree. My XH withheld information, including health info and medication. He was also anaphylactic, and so I got angry when I found out about the secret meds. My thought were this: say he had a severe allergic reaction where EMT needed to be called. They asked me if he were on any other meds, and I answered "no", being completely blind to the fact that whatever they give him could interract with whatever he was on, and do some serious damage. All because he didn't communicate in the first place. 

Communication is key, whether it be finances, grief, health issues, etc. I'm with someone now who is an open communicator (for most part, anyways), and it's something that's very much appreciated by me. Relationships and marriage aren't just about sharing the good and happy times, they're about getting through the tough times together, and supporting each other through them. If you can't rely on your partner, or don't let your partner know about life's challenges, being in a partnership is pointless.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

wow. so much animosity from some.
Peeps, was just a simple question(s)
1. Men, do you feel some things are best not to confide in your wife?

and 
2. ladies , how does tis make you feel if your man came venting and running to you for every. Single. Problem.? HAs that changed how you feel towards him? Is he getting less sex. Is he getting more sex. Soup or salad. Whatever. Are you eyeballin' your male coworker now because he seems without issues? it was just a question..

it's my fault for the confusion. I obviously missed my mark with the question.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And so you lie to her about everything because she’s too weak and stupid to deal with the real world. She’s like a pet or a child. That’s gross.


Maybe it's more like the princess on a pedestal syndrome. Or Rapunzel in the tower to keep her safe.

Don't know but it is weird. Most women I know wouldn't want this at all. What's crazy is there are plenty of men that think we do. Then when things go south because we figure out we can't trust them and don't feel connected they'll say well I just couldn't keep up the money and she bailed. Or some other excuse.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Gabriel said:


> There is some truth to what the OP is saying. It depends on the wife, though. My wife, absolutely sometimes needs me to just take care of something and not "freak out". There is a balance to it - not to be a robot, but know when to keep your emotions in check.


I can relate to this. It absolutely depends on the specific spouse. There have been a few times where I’ve “thought out loud” a bit too much about some business challenge or future health concern and it had the unintended affect of giving my wife sudden anxiety. Some things are absolutely best kept to ones self.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Men, do you feel some things are best not to confide in your wife?


Out of your list I’d say constantly complaining about work is best kept to yourself, but for either sex. Other than that, no it’s better to share.

Occasional work complaints are fine, incessant complaining about it is really annoying.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> How is it a solid relationship if they can't discuss things that make him sad or having trouble making the mortgage or a business that's failing?
> 
> That's kind of what makes a marriage a marriage. It's the bad times that define a good relationship. Anyone can be in a relationship when everything is hunky dory.
> 
> ...


Thats's another topic, but I leave the room. That's gross. Good for you if you have that kind of relationship with your spouse. Why can't we behave like we did on our first date? Why do we have to get comfortable and gross as time passes? Keep your butt clean, don't forget to floss, smell good etc etc. Good hygiene goes a long way.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


You are correct Doc, but I don't think the others read it like I did, or perhaps, I read into it wrong.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> I wouldn't want a husband who kept things from me. I don't need him to be superman.


yes, i can see the contradiction. again, I was grasping for examples.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> I doubt that most women expect their husband to be a superman. Is this a fantasy that some guys have, that they are "superman" to their wife?
> 
> I just want an honest man who does not lie, not even by omission.


yes, this is a fantasy. healthy or otherwise but yes, still a fantasy of most. At least when we're young.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Imnobodynew said:


> Yeah. I agree with the other posters. I tried that superman crap. That Hollywood social engineering. I glad I can be honest around my wife and feel safe. You know it encourages her to do the same thing.
> 
> Part of the reason we had so much trouble in our 7 year ich was becuase we couldnt be honest to each other as to where were at.
> 
> ...


Egotistical? Trying to spare her some stress and worry?


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> _*Complaining about work constantly is a bad look for a man*_ or woman in my opinion. Fortunately you’re not compelled to work, so instead of complaining about it you can change it.
> 
> Being sad because your pet died or something, what’s the alternative? Even a sociopath would probably at least pretend to be sad as to not draw attention.
> 
> Health issues again you’re a team. Even if you don’t feel like you need emotional or physical support if you’re having issues that could say effect your income it’s much better to disclose early and also be a responsible partner and get the maximum disability insurance you’re allowed to buy. In my case I carry the maximum disability for the maximum duration because my wife expects my income. I do not expect her income so she doesn’t.


Agreed. thanks for responding.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


I agree with some of this but it does depend on the partner and the situation.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. There have been similar threads where fairly respected women were promoting the exact same thing, only slightly different situations that the husband would definitely want to know as well.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Affaircare said:


> My husband isn't a superman--he's a Staff Sargeant in the US Army. There's a difference. Yeah, he leads and yeah he's tough as nails, but let's go through your examples:
> 
> *...a business venture went sour? Figure out the solution, do not stress the wife.*
> Uh, no. When he's in the Army, I'm his partner holding down the fort. When he's a civilian, whatever business he's in is of interest to me and I'm a partner in hearing the highs and lows. Since I don't work that actual job, I may not understand every detail in the way he does, but as a couple, we are a team. If something in his business goes south, then we're in it together.
> ...


Excellent. Your opinion appreciated.
Again, this is maybe advice to myself? MAybe because I learned certain things in my 1st marriage. Not saying my word is gospel, just saying what I've learned. It may or may not be flawed depending on who you ask?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Ok, to ME, a man who can be honest about his feelings and struggles as a fellow human being is STRONG. I disagree that showing his humanity is going to damage the attraction or safety I feel with him. Also, a man who makes mistakes and OWNS them, and works to fix them, gets the ultimate respect from me.

I cannot tolerate men (or people) who HIDE things. It makes me feel insecure and like HE is afraid of ME (which I find very unappealing in a man as well). And that damages any trust and respect I have for him much more than if he is emotional or struggling.

Plus, for me personally, I love to be a helper to the people I care about...so when I know he has a problem, I want to try to help him with it, whatever it is! And when I can, I feel extremely happy and satisfied as his partner!!  
It would hurt me if he denied me those opportunities to feel closer to him and special to him.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Thats's another topic, but I leave the room. That's gross. Good for you if you have that kind of relationship with your spouse. Why can't we behave like we did on our first date? Why do we have to get comfortable and gross as time passes? Keep your butt clean, don't forget to floss, smell good etc etc. Good hygiene goes a long way.


Because no one I know is their true self on a first date. If you want it to be long term it has to be real and you have to accept the other person for the faults.

I'm not saying you can't leave the room but you really need to be more real in all senses than what you present.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

If she's looking for Superman, I'll pass.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Ursula said:


> As a woman, I have to say that personally, I disagree. My XH withheld information, including health info and medication. He was also anaphylactic, and so I got angry when I found out about the secret meds. My thought were this: say he had a severe allergic reaction where EMT needed to be called. They asked me if he were on any other meds, and I answered "no", being completely blind to the fact that whatever they give him could interract with whatever he was on, and do some serious damage. All because he didn't communicate in the first place.
> 
> Communication is key, whether it be finances, grief, health issues, etc. I'm with someone now who is an open communicator (for most part, anyways), and it's something that's very much appreciated by me. Relationships and marriage aren't just about sharing the good and happy times, they're about getting through the tough times together, and supporting each other through them. If you can't rely on your partner, or don't let your partner know about life's challenges, being in a partnership is pointless.


Fair enough. Thank you for responding.
Can't help to notice your comment of your new someone..you say he's an open communicator, for the most part...therein lies my question: for the most part? Does he do this deliberately or is it unintentional? if deliberate, for what reasons?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> P.S. There have been similar threads where fairly respected women were promoting the exact same thing, only slightly different situations that the husband would definitely want to know as well.


The Va-Clang thread comes to mind. While the premise was similar, the consequence of oversharing became a drop in sexual attraction and/or sexual frequency.

The uncomfortable truth is that there is some truth to it. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ehh… I _sort-of-but-not-really_ agree with this.

It’s possible to keep your wife apprised of what’s going on in your life, with the finances, etc, without *****ing about it.

It’s the *****ing that’s unattractive.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> Ehh… I _sort-of-but-not-really_ agree with this.
> 
> It’s possible to keep your wife apprised of what’s going on in your life, with the finances, etc, without *****ing about it.
> 
> It’s the *****ing that’s unattractive.


or whining. I mean you can communicate without whining or *****ing.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> The uncomfortable truth is that there is some truth to it.


I think there is a limit where it is fine and even good but it can cross into “weepy loser” territory.

If one of my friends is complaining a lot about a problem after a bit I wonder why they’re not fixing it. I will ask them if they’re going to fix it or just complain, because if they’re going to complain then they could call one of those 1-800 hotlines or something instead of crying about it. Normally this level of shaming is enough to snap them out of it and vice versa. I don’t think it’s a look you want to be presenting to anyone including your wife.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> or whining. I mean you can communicate without whining or *****ing.


Right.

*****ing, griping, whining, moaning, etc… whatever you wanna call it.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> Right.
> 
> *****ing, griping, whining, moaning, etc… whatever you wanna call it.


I think all partners would love if you could just communicate. You know like people.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> Because no one I know is their true self on a first date. If you want it to be long term it has to be real and you have to accept the other person for the faults.
> 
> I'm not saying you can't leave the room but you really need to be more real in all senses than what you present.


I agree no one is 100% what we were on the first date. One of the reasons I still look forward to seeing my partner every day now is because we both told ourselves, we need to keep treating each other with the respect we initially showed during the honeymoon phase; never call each other names during an argument, be nice at all times, be a person who's company you enjoy, etc etc. Say please, thank you. Have eyes for her and her only, and vice versa, just like on the first date. Smell good, shower often. Work out together if that's a similar interest. Be happy..it goes on and on.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Having said all that, there’s plenty that I just don’t share with my wife. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> The Va-Clang thread comes to mind. While the premise was similar, the consequence of oversharing became a drop in sexual attraction and/or sexual frequency.
> 
> The uncomfortable truth is that there is some truth to it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I noticed this in my first marriage...
Was wondering if it was just me or did others have similar experiences.
Thank you.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sure sounds like he’s implying you’re irrational. Also sounds like he thinks all women are irrational morons. 🙄


Do you like instigating fights and arguments? Not all women are irrational morons.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> The Va-Clang thread comes to mind. While the premise was similar, the consequence of oversharing became a drop in sexual attraction and/or sexual frequency.
> 
> The uncomfortable truth is that there is some truth to it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


But...isn't not sharing things with wives putting them on pedestals (or something)...which is also BAD, right...??

I'm really SO confused...could you men please get together and decide what I'm supposed to need and how I'm supposed to act as a woman before I start dating...!!!! Sheesh! Lol!!


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> But...isn't not sharing things with wives putting them on pedestals (or something)...which is also BAD, right...??
> 
> I'm really SO confused...could you men please get together and decide what I'm supposed to need and how I'm supposed to act as a woman before I start dating...!!!! Sheesh! Lol!!


Nothing wrong with a pedestal. You treat me like a king I treat you like my queen. 
the problem is when the relationship is unbalanced.
Be yourself.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DoctorManhattan said:


> You treat me like a king I treat you like my queen.


This is another one. 

I noticed a younger friend of mine calling his wife “my queen” in text messages. 

This guy can beat the crap out of me IRL without even trying and I told him bro that is lame quit doing that. I texted him a link to the MMSLP. He read it and stopped doing it.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is another one.
> 
> I noticed a younger friend of mine calling his wife “my queen” in text messages.
> 
> This guy can beat the crap out of me IRL without even trying and I told him bro that is lame quit doing that. I texted him a link to the MMSLP. He read it and stopped doing it.


There's nothing wrong showing someone they're your one and only. The problem is when it's one-sided. 

I treat my partner like how I expect to be treated. I'm the king of my kingdom. I provide and hold the fort down. I protect. Until you stop treating me how I treat you. Then it's time to part ways. I don't beg. 

But yes, I can see your point of view, especially with these young bucks.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

DoctorManhattan said:


> There's nothing wrong showing someone they're your one and only. The problem is when it's one-sided.
> 
> I treat my partner like how I expect to be treated. I'm the king of my kingdom. I provide and hold the fort down. I protect. Until you stop treating me how I treat you. Then it's time to part ways. I don't beg.
> 
> But yes, I can see your point of view, especially with these young bucks.


It's not my first rodeo. I might've been the rodeo clown, but definitely not my first rodeo.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Now see this is totally different. Whenever either of us has a crappy day at work and it’s a problem or situation the other can’t help with, keep the venting to a minimum. No one wants to listen to whining.
> 
> That’s not what the OP is saying, though. He’s saying women are weak and dumb and children and you should just lie to them so they’ll keep their mouths shut. Thats different.


Yes , Texas Mom, that's exactly what I'm saying 🙄


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That’s not what the OP is saying, though. He’s saying women are weak and dumb and children and you should just lie to them so they’ll keep their mouths shut. Thats different.


I know my wife has a higher threshold for pain than I do and deals with some unfortunate situations better than I do mentally. I don’t think I have ever seen her “lose it” and become hysterical ever. So I have the respect


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Name calling. Touched a nerve, did I?


Huh? Are we following the same threads?


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> P.S. There have been similar threads where fairly respected women were promoting the exact same thing, only slightly different situations that the husband would definitely want to know as well.


Shoot me a link if you have time...I'm curious. 
Thanks..


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Women are actually very strong. The whole “weaker sex” mythology is just to minimize us. We are physically smaller, yes, but we are strong and honestly pretty good in a crisis. That whole Scarlet O’Hara thing, you see. When it counts, we can do what has to be done, especially to protect people we love. It’s only bullies who insist women be submissive, brainless weaklings.


I agree with you on strength and resilience of a woman. 
And certain cultures especially minimize the value of a woman. 
I guarantee you, and you can confirm I wouldn't be in a happy relationship if I thought my opinion was the only one that mattered. 
I pick my fights( if you want to call them that) now.
I value her opinion, and my own opinion isn't important to me once I'm home. My worries or stress are more important to me than what's for dinner. Or whether or not to remodel the bathroom. If that's what she wants? Sure. Red dress or black dress? She looks hot in anything so that doesn't matter to me. 
Should we spend on something we don't need? Sometimes she advises against it. Sometimes I listen. Sometimes I get my way. It doesn't matter to me.
If Sometimes I want to splurge on something, I do it, no permission required. She's free to do the same. 
My OP question was a different topic altogether. Never once did I say women were  whatever you said I thought women were).
Please reread my inquiry. 

I apologize if it came across offensive.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I agree with you. I think most ladies need to respect their man, and seeing him project strength is a way to earn and keep her respect. I think that for most minor things, you better just keep it to yourself and handle it. Someone else already mentioned ladies don't want to fix men's problems, only the problems of children. So why overshare? She will just see you as a child if you start coming to her with too many issues. If you feel under the weather one day, same thing...keep it to yourself. Men, how many times have you heard a woman make fun of a man over his "man cold" talking about how men get dramatic when we get sick. What does that tell you? Deal with it on your own. 

With that said, you do have to share major issues with her. If you are serious about her then she has a right to know you have a serious medical condition or if you are losing your job.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> I agree with you. I think most ladies need to respect their man, and seeing him project strength is a way to earn and keep her respect. I think that for most minor things, you better just keep it to yourself and handle it. Someone else already mentioned ladies don't want to fix men's problems, only the problems of children. So why overshare? She will just see you as a child if you start coming to her with too many issues. If you feel under the weather one day, same thing...keep it to yourself. Men, how many times have you heard a woman make fun of a man over his "man cold" talking about how men get dramatic when we get sick. What does that tell you? Deal with it on your own.
> 
> With that said, you do have to share major issues with her. If you are serious about her then she has a right to know you have a serious medical condition or if you are losing your job.


Thank you...I appreciate your feedback. Makes sense to me.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I've learned I cannot tell my wife everything or else it become a huge issue for her and then me. I can't think of anything at the moment but just last week I shared something about my job and it became an argument at home.

I think some things you just have to keep your mouth shut about.

Probably the same reason all our talks about sex become an issue.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

I think it's ok to tell wives about the minor problems you have solved or ask them for their input on minor problems. 
I don't think that's emasculating. 

However, its' the helpless attitude that is the problem.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

I get what you are trying to convey here. Or at least I think I do. Don't think I've got the words to describe my understanding, but here goes:

I think you are trying to talk about the classic "stoic" man. The leader. The confident man who still excells in the face adversity. If that is what you are getting at, then yes. I do agree men should act that way. I would call myself a hybrid of traditional/modern, but I lean more heavily towards being a traditional man. 

Your examples though are sketch. Things like the mortgage.... naw. Shouldn't be lying about that. 

Maybe an easier example would be that you and Karl are trying for the same promotion at work. You are visibly anxious at home. Your wife asks why. You say, "No worries. Just still thinking about something from work. So, how was your day?" Next day at work you get the promotion over Karl and come home to tell your wife the good news. Strong, stoic man achieved. Well done, sir. Now go enjoy yourself some promotion sex (or at least, that has happened in my house every time). Or, you come home and Karl beat you out for that position. You are down. That one hurt. You thought you had it for sure. You call your wife and say that you want to go to happy hour with a couple of guys before you head home. You need to cool off and get your head straight and go home. You enter your house, kiss your wonderful wife and hug your kids. Life moves on. Nothing in your wife's life changes or the kids. Their safety and security is still nailed down. Well done, dad. Change into some workout clothes and pump some iron to get a serotonin hit to counter the sad thoughts. You'll be ok. You'll find your next opportunity. 

And then sometimes you can't hide it and you need help. You need someone to hold you because this failure hit you especially hard. Thankfully, you've already chosen someone for that job. Funny enough, it's the same person that chose you for the same job! 😃 
Keep it together the best you can. Let your wife do her wife magic and soothe you. Let her help you rebuild your confidence to go back out and fight again. 


This is the way I prefer to operate. So on one hand I get "hiding" something from my wife, but it won't be anything that will adversely affect her, it can only help and it would be a nice surprise to bering home. And yes, I do believe that being the strong, stoic man is sexually attractive towards women and gets a little boost in sex when you are kicking ass. I've been able to pull off this feat a few times. But I'm not going to hide something that can adversely affect her and the kids and just wipe my brow and say, "phew! Glad I got that done without her knowing!" Problem is, she probably does know because you aren't hiding the anxiety too well and your attitude has changed. So the extra sex? Yeah, that ain't happening because your anxiety has turned you into an asshole.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think there is a bit of showmanship (not lying) that makes a good hubby. It’s always good to keep your “sharing” positive and a bit light.... “No honey, not worried.... this is under control..” lol


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

This one falls under the category of "know your audience". No, not every woman is the same. Some women strongly agree, some women strongly disagree, and then there's the middle ground where "it depends". 

I don't care for the policy of Radical Honesty. I think men and WOMEN should carry their share of the emotional weight in a relationship which sometimes means keeping things to ourselves, eg recognizing that our partners are not here to fix our problems or make us happy. This is not to be confused with withholding crucial information that directly impacts their life (your examples are of crucial information). This can destroy the trust in a relationship and when that's gone, you might as well call it quits. 

Having said that, being completely vulnerable with a partner and being able to share thoughts and feelings can be wonderfully binding for people/couples with high emotional intelligence. Personally, I'm not there yet and probably never will be. YMMV


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I get what you are trying to convey here. Or at least I think I do. Don't think I've got the words to describe my understanding, but here goes:
> 
> I think you are trying to talk about the classic "stoic" man. The leader. The confident man who still excells in the face adversity. If that is what you are getting at, then yes. I do agree men should act that way. I would call myself a hybrid of traditional/modern, but I lean more heavily towards being a traditional man.
> 
> ...


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Lila said:


> This one falls under the category of "know your audience". No, not every woman is the same. Some women strongly agree, some women strongly disagree, and then there's the middle ground where "it depends".
> 
> I don't care for the policy of Radical Honesty. I think men and WOMEN should carry their share of the emotional weight in a relationship which sometimes means keeping things to ourselves, eg recognizing that our partners are not here to fix our problems or make us happy. This is not to be confused with withholding crucial information that directly impacts their life (your examples are of crucial information). This can destroy the trust in a relationship and when that's gone, you might as well call it quits.
> 
> Having said that, being completely vulnerable with a partner and being able to share thoughts and feelings can be wonderfully binding for people/couples with high emotional intelligence. Personally, I'm not there yet and probably never will be. YMMV


Thank you for sharing. My examples were maybe extreme.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I still am sad for the wives of men who don’t think they’re strong enough to handle problems. I would be miserable living with someone who didn’t respect me or believed I was stupid. And all of you men who need to “lead” your wife are really missing out on a friendship. Some of us, most of us, are actually intelligent and capable people with brains. I realize there are women who never want to grow up, and so you’ll always be able to find a woman who will basically stay mentally a child and will just wander through life being told which shoe goes on which foot. It takes all kinds, I suppose. The first time a man clocks me and tells me to “know my place” is the last time he sees me.


I understand. I have daughters and I would not like this situation you describe to be theirs.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I find the whole “princess on a pedestal” insidious. It’s a cover for a lack of respect. You don’t lie to your wife about going bankrupt or having a serious illness to “protect” her. You do it because you don’t respect or trust her or see her as a valuable person. Keeping bad news from your three year old daughter is one thing, if you’re doing it to an adult it’s because you see her as a child and think she’s weak and stupid.


In all cases? Every single one is a lack of respect?

Understandably, I do not use terms like "my queen", etc. to describe my wife. I stopped putting her on a pedestal years ago, to the health of our marriage. 

Now, I'm not suggesting you should withhold information like you mentioned above (eg. bankruptcy or serious illness), but to dismiss the impact to dynamics within a relationship when the more dominant person (male or female) is experiencing anxiety or fear from said problems is dismissing what many level-headed posters on this site have said repeatedly over my 7 years of being here...and flies directly in the face of my own experience. 

She doesn't want to hear about my fears because it stokes her own fears.

She doesn't want to hear about my anxiety because it stokes her own anxiety. 

She wants things to work, and when they do, things flow. When they don't, there is am impact to us. 

I don't particularly like it, but I have become used to it. It is what it is. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> In all cases? Every single one is a lack of respect?
> 
> Understandably, I do not use terms like "my queen", etc. to describe my wife. I stopped putting her on a pedestal years ago, to the health of our marriage.
> 
> ...


Help me understand. Why doesn't she contribute as much as you do to making things "work" and flow?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Help me understand. Why doesn't she contribute as much as you do to making things "work" and flow?


I know you replied to farside Livie but in my case, my answer would be my wife doesn't work so she doesn't contriubte to the financial apsect of our lives, So I don't really consult her with my investment thoughts or things like that.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Help me understand. Why doesn't she contribute as much as you do to making things "work" and flow?


I believe partners have different strengths. Where on falls short the other picks up the slack? Big gears and small gears. 
My weakness among many is impatience.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


This sounds a little like Mr. Nice Guy syndrome to me. Rather than being honest, open and genuine you are telling your wife what you think she wants to hear. You are doing this to hide your own weaknesses and shortcomings. You put up the façade of an "alpha", but in reality your actions are very "beta". I also think it is playing with fire. Not talking to her about that failed business venture, inability to pay bills, etc. will come back to bite you way worse if you don't find a solution and she finds out once the **** has already hit the fan. I think a better way is to come to her with the issue AND what your proposed solution is. Then you have to sell her on your idea and maybe you even get some input that improves on your idea. My company's CEO has often said don't come to her with a problem unless you have a proposal to address it ready for discussion. I think this applies to relationships as well.

I think you should share pretty much all of your issues, certainly any that have an impact on both of you which includes health issues. That doesn't mean you complain and whine about it. That is not an attractive look for a man. However, every issue is an opportunity to demonstrate your leadership and capability to be the protector and provider a good husband wants to be. Why hide them?

As for crying, well it is human. It isn't very manly to cry at the end of every romcom on date night, but there are times when it is just appropriate. No way was I holding back tears while giving the eulogy at my grandmother's funeral. Another example... A couple weeks ago we were driving home from a friends house. I was pretty loaded, so she was driving. Our wedding song came on the radio then it was followed up by another similar song and my wife mentioned that it would be a good wedding song for our engaged daughter. The thought of my daughter getting married choked me up and made be cry a little. I don't think my wife saw me as less of a man, quite the contrary. We had some pretty awesome sex that night.

This approach seems to be working for me. Certainly isn't having a negative impact on how attracted my wife is to me given we've had sex about 10 times in the last week, lol.

BTW, I do sometimes call my wife "my queen". Then I follow that up with, "you know what that makes me"


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> This sounds a little like Mr. Nice Guy syndrome to me. Rather than being honest, open and genuine you are telling your wife what you think she wants to hear. You are doing this to hide your own weaknesses and shortcomings. You put up the façade of an "alpha", but in reality your actions are very "beta". I also think it is playing with fire. Not talking to her about that failed business venture, inability to pay bills, etc. will come back to bite you way worse if you don't find a solution and she finds out once the **** has already hit the fan. I think a better way is to come to her with the issue AND what your proposed solution is. Then you have to sell her on your idea and maybe you even get some input that improves on your idea. My company's CEO has often said don't come to her with a problem unless you have a proposal to address it ready for discussion. I think this applies to relationships as well.
> 
> I think you should share pretty much all of your issues, certainly any that have an impact on both of you which includes health issues. That doesn't mean you complain and whine about it. That is not an attractive look for a man. However, every issue is an opportunity to demonstrate your leadership and capability to be the protector and provider a good husband wants to be. Why hide them?
> 
> ...


Figured you or someone else would chime in. This is a better explanation of what I was getting at. 😁


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

Being careful about not oversharing is a reality for both sides. Not to imply that one side is "worse" than the other, but women are certainly at least as aware as men of the risks of oversharing. Beyond that, I can address only the man's perspective.

There's always the risk that a change in your situation could trigger something in her. It could be something that she didn't realize about herself. As others have said, it depends on the individual woman. I'd like to say that if I had a wife who revealed that kind of mentality, I'd end the relationship. Of course, not everybody is in a position to weather a divorce. So the only options are to be very careful when considering somebody for marriage (to include having a detailed talk up front), or to stay single.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Shoot me a link if you have time...I'm curious.
> Thanks..


It came up in different threads.

One subject was about wives getting hit on aggressively and/or mildly sexually harassed or even lightly assaulted, for example, having their derriere touched. That's something I would want my wife to tell me about but several women were arguing against telling their husbands. Their arguments included being able to handle themselves and not getting their husbands worked up over something they had accepted as almost regular practice.

To be clear, I'm an advocate for transparency between man and wife with only a couple caveats.

As far as your original post, I know it has merit in that men who make more effort to deal with life's issues and less time talking about them are absolutely more attractive mates.

This has been verified on this very site by aforementioned respected women and even developed the term "Vclang", meaning women were turned off by men who generally complained or overshared their feelings instead of making decisions and working on issues.

If I read your original post correctly, you weren't advocating for just covering up problems but working on them first for resolutions.

I'm in agreement with that philosophy.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

vincent3 said:


> Being careful about not oversharing is a reality for both sides. Not to imply that one side is "worse" than the other, but women are certainly at least as aware as men of the risks of oversharing. Beyond that, I can address only the man's perspective.
> 
> There's always the risk that a change in your situation could trigger something in her. It could be something that she didn't realize about herself. As others have said, it depends on the individual woman. I'd like to say that if I had a wife who revealed that kind of mentality, I'd end the relationship. Of course, not everybody is in a position to weather a divorce. So the only options are to be very careful when considering somebody for marriage (to include having a detailed talk up front), or to stay single.


I simply can't imagine living in a marriage where I had to think about what I said or did all the time. It sounds exhausting. My husband and I prefer to live open with each other and focus on acceptance and communication.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Men like that LOVE to claim women who are pregnant are EVEN more crazy and stupid than they are the rest of the time. This kinda feels like a waste of time; either this is a troll saying absurd things for attention or this guy isn’t worth the time.


I didn't acknowledge the pregnant part but he is starting an interesting discussion and you can make some good points and share your view but you went nuclear quickly and started saying things he wasn't.

Not every nuance can be immediately detected when typing on a forum.

This is an interesting topic and worth discussing.🙂


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I didn't acknowledge the pregnant part but he is starting an interesting discussion and you can make some good points and share your view but you went nuclear quickly and started saying things he wasn't.
> 
> Not every nuance can be immediately detected when typing on a forum.
> 
> This is an interesting topic and worth discussing.🙂


And so how did you take him saying I was with child?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> And so how did you take him saying I was with child?


I had no idea what he was talking about so I focused on the rest of the statement.

Are you expecting BTW?🙂 I don't really know even what age range a lot of posters are.😋


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I simply can't imagine living in a marriage where I had to think about what I said or did all the time. It sounds exhausting. My husband and I prefer to live open with each other and focus on acceptance and communication.


I agree, that sounds like way too much work. If your marriage is so delicate that you have to watch your every step I suspect it really isn't much of a marriage.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I had no idea what he was talking about so I focused on the rest of the statement.
> 
> Are you expecting BTW?🙂 I don't really know even what age range a lot of posters are.😋


I was confused by that too. I thought I've seen @Anastasia6 talking about retiring from the workforce, not having another child, lol.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I was confused by that too. I thought I've seen @Anastasia6 talking about retiring from the workforce, not having another child, lol.


Somewhere in my head, I was thinking of her as more my age range with adult kiddos too.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I was confused by that too. I thought I've seen @Anastasia6 talking about retiring from the workforce, not having another child, lol.


Yes I am past child bearing and in no post ever have I indicated I'm with child. I'm sure it was some kind of insult I just couldn't figure out what kind. 

Notice Op keeps changing the goal posts to share his wisdom that he learned from his first failed marriage. At first it was hide mortgage payments and business now it's less than that. He is in a second 'successful' marriage. I have to wonder how long this one is...

I'm sure there are plenty of people who hide things and lie either outright or by omission with their spouse. I just don't want to be in that kind of relationship. I want to love and accept my spouse and I want to be loved and accepted.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes I am past child bearing and in no post ever have I indicated I'm with child. I'm sure it was some kind of insult I just couldn't figure out what kind.
> 
> Notice Op keeps changing the goal posts to share his wisdom that he learned from his first failed marriage. At first it was hide mortgage payments and business now it's less than that. He is in a second 'successful' marriage. I have to wonder how long this one is...
> 
> I'm sure there are plenty of people who hide things and lie either outright or by omission with their spouse. I just don't want to be in that kind of relationship. I want to love and accept my spouse and I want to be loved and accepted.


Calm down, remember youre w child just means..calm down. you went 0 to 60 fast as others have stated. Reread yor comment. Nowhere did I say any of the things you said I was. You came in swinging for no reason.
All I meant was calm down, remember your heart condition. Whatever. Calm down, the kids can hear you. Thats it. Not an insult.
This topic for me is simply that, a topic.
Question was 2 parts:
Men: are there certain things you dont tell your wife for fear of losing your man card (?, for lack of better explanation.
Ladies, has this ever happened in your experience.

Interpret as you wish. Were just questions.
I don't keep changing the goal posts. I'm trying to paint a picture I guess ?
Like I mentioned before, my examples, were poor examples obviously. Was grasping for different situations. As others stated it's difficult to convey or get your point across immediatley unless youre a pro. Which I'm not a public speaker. Obvioulsy. 
My wisdom? Hardly. MY experience does not make me wise. Just my experience.
I have learned some things along the way.
Wonder no more. I've been happy now for 12 or so years.

Some people can relate to my question, others can't. No need to label me a she-hater. On the contrary.
another poster went as far as to PM me calling me an a-hole. Right away. Seriously? That's comical. 

Anastasia, I apologize to you, didn't mean to insult. In retrospect the subject line should've been posted as a question, not a statement.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> It came up in different threads.
> 
> One subject was about wives getting hit on aggressively and/or mildly sexually harassed or even lightly assaulted, for example, having their derriere touched. That's something I would want my wife to tell me about but several women were arguing against telling their husbands. Their arguments included being able to handle themselves and not getting their husbands worked up over something they had accepted as almost regular practice.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Calm down, remember youre w child just means..calm down. you went 0 to 60 fast as others have stated. Reread yor comment. Nowhere did I say any of the things you said I was. You came in swinging for no reason.
> All I meant was calm down, remember your heart condition. Whatever. Calm down, the kids can hear you. Thats it. Not an insult.
> This topic for me is simply that, a topic.
> Question was 2 parts:
> ...


So you divorced 12 years ago but are married for 12 years now? Was this married to someone you cheated with?


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> So you divorced 12 years ago but are married for 12 years now? Was this married to someone you cheated with?


Never been a cheater. Not even in high school. Not even in my prime.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Excellent post, Conan. Just like BigDaddyNY, I wanna say, "Yeah! What he said!". 😂 



ConanHub said:


> It came up in different threads.
> 
> One subject was about wives getting hit on aggressively and/or mildly sexually harassed or even lightly assaulted, for example, having their derriere touched. That's something I would want my wife to tell me about but several women were arguing against telling their husbands. Their arguments included being able to handle themselves and not getting their husbands worked up over something they had accepted as almost regular practice.


I'm glad you brought this up. I find this to be serious as well and have experience in this area. My wife and I have been working through A LOT of our past this year. It's the reason why I'm here at TAM. I needed a place to vent and learn. I just learned about 6 months ago that my wife was sexually harassed at work back in 2005. Just to repeat that.... I learned that information 16 YEARS LATER. Why is this important? I resented my wife during that time. We didn't have sex for a FULL YEAR. I had no idea what was going on. I thought she resented me. I had no clue why. In turn, I resented her. It was a terrible cycle. No communication. I was desperate to figure out what was going on. We weren't married at the time. She moved away to another city and asked me to follow. I did 6 months after that. 

We were LUCKY. Why? If this site existed back then and I was a regular member, I wouldn't be with my wife today. I wouldn't have my wonderful children. The advice here would have said, "Stop being stupid. You need to cut this person out of your life. No intimacy for a full year? Something is seriously wrong.". And you know what? That advice would have been correct. I didn't have the wisdom when I was a 26 year old as I do today. I would have thought the worst. I would have thought she had found someone else. Sexual harassment is a serious problem, but it is something we could have worked through. I would have had compassion and helped her out. We needed to communicate better but it didn't go down like that at the time. I was lucky that it wasn't something far worse when I decided to follow her to a new city. Things ended up working out for us, but it could have gone the complete opposite way. I bring this up because I'm fully in agreement with you - that is definitely something that shouldn't be hidden from a husband. 




ConanHub said:


> As far as your original post, I know it has merit in that men who make more effort to deal with life's issues and less time talking about them are absolutely more attractive mates.
> 
> This has been verified on this very site by aforementioned respected women and even developed the term "Vclang", meaning women were turned off by men who generally complained or overshared their feelings instead of making decisions and working on issues.
> 
> ...


Yep, yep, yep. I like your explanation. This is what I meant by strong and stoic getting the sex boost. 😁


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I'm a problem solver. I get deep into finding a solution to a problem and I'll worry later about my husband's man card. 

I had to think about this one because I feel I don't share everything with my husband. He definitely hasn't seen me worried about work. I haven't shared all my insecurities about me as a mom or as a wife. I definitely care about my image as a wife and mother. I like to be seen as a strong woman. I like it when my husband asks for my help. I love it when my kids look up to me. I absolutely hate the image of a whimpy, whiny, weak, female. And I also hate weak men. I guessed I hate weak people in general. 

I know my husband shares very little about work. There's no way he can hide any financial problems since we both have access to every account. 

We've had financial struggles. We both have helped each other to find a solution and move on. Maybe this is why we are still together. 

My husband has been through medical hell, and I'm still there by his side. I don't even know how he does it. He has cried and screamed in pain. I don't think he's weak at all. 

I don't think my husband worries about his image as much as you do. Maybe because he hasn't gone through what you've been through. He is himself and I like him the way he is. And he uses many terms of endearment, my queen is one of them. His confidence is really sexy.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Removed


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> To me, it sounds like a marriage where the husband and wife aren’t comfortable with each other. It sounds like the kind of marriage you see with religious people: the man is the “head” and the woman is the submissive. It’s a master/slave relationship where no one loves or trusts the other one. It’s not a partnership and there’s no real affection or friendship. It sounds hollow and very, very lonely.


Not to thread jack but Mrs. Conan is submissive to me and hardly my slave.

I have seen some ridiculous relationships like you are talking about but they're doing it wrong.😉


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Not to thread jack but Mrs. Conan is submissive to me and hardly my slave.
> 
> I have seen some ridiculous relationships like you are talking about but they're doing it wrong.😉


That’s disappointing. I thought you were a decent person. I won’t say more, I don’t want to threadjack.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

😂😂😂

you WERE a decent person, Conan.

not no more!!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> 😂😂😂
> 
> you WERE a decent person, Conan.
> 
> not no more!!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂


I’m sure he doesn’t care what I think. I’m a woman, and after all, and women are just slaves with no value. He can’t give marriage advice, because his wife has no say in anything, so of course he’s happy and she doesn’t matter. You must be the same.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m sure he doesn’t care what I think. I’m a woman, and after all, and women are just slaves with no value. He can’t give marriage advice, because his wife has no say in anything, so of course he’s happy and she doesn’t matter. You must be the same.


You’re a hoot!

Great assessment on me! I mean, you totally figured me out in a few posts! 😂


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Not to thread jack but Mrs. Conan is submissive to me and hardly my slave.
> 
> I have seen some ridiculous relationships like you are talking about but they're doing it wrong.😉


I understand what you are talking about. 

I'm submissive to my husband too. 

I think there's a mutual submissiveness to our marriage vows. We both have to submit to a dynamic that helps our marriage and family go forward. That's one of the keys of my success. 

I feel very empowered and independent in my marriage.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m sure he doesn’t care what I think. I’m a woman, and after all, and women are just slaves with no value. He can’t give marriage advice, because his wife has no say in anything, so of course he’s happy and she doesn’t matter. You must be the same.


If Conanhub is in a Biblical oriented marriage, any decisions that he makes, he will consider his family first and foremost. That is why his wife trusts him and is willing to submit herself to his decisions.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> I understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I'm submissive to my husband too.
> 
> ...


In a Biblical oriented marriage, the husband gives everything to the family, as Christ loved the church so the husband should love his wife.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> I understand what you are talking about.
> 
> I'm submissive to my husband too.
> 
> ...


Ps79, let me guess if I understand you correctly - would it be fair to say that you and your husband see each other as equals in your marriage? Also, at the same time, realize that men and women are different, but equal in value? If so, that is the way I see things.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I gave the OP some thought, because several people pointed out I went zero to sixty and I wasn't being fair.

Here's an example from my life.

About 8 years about, my husband went for a routine physical (for more life insurance). They found an anomaly in his heart. The results were going to take a couple of weeks, we had a trip planned. He didn't tell me about it until we got back and he went to see a cardiologist. He then told me everything, including the diagnosis. (Enlarged heart) He said he didn't tell me before because he didn't know if there was even anything really wrong yet and there was no reason for both of us to worry, and he didn't want to ruin the trip. I wasn't thrilled, but of course I'm not going to say anything because we just got some bad news and his heart was in the right place. He was understandably a mess. We got his pacemaker put in and within 18 months his heart function is at the low end of normal.

Honestly, if I go for a mammogram and find out I have cancer, I won't tell him until I know the prognosis and the treatment plan. I will find out everything that is going to happen, and I will grieve/be upset privately. I will not fall apart in front of him (and of course not in front of my son) because while my husband is very, very strong physically, I'm the stronger of us emotionally. We both had bad childhoods, but mine was worse, and I survived it, I'm hard to kill at this point.

I wonder if THIS isn't really what the OP was talking about. Sometimes you know how much someone can handle, and it's not that you're not telling them because you don't respect them, but because you either know that everything will work out and there's no need to worry them for no reason OR because (like me with a cancer diagnosis) you wonder how well you'll take it and how much time you'll need before you can be strong again, and you don't want to both fall apart at once.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I gave the OP some thought, because several people pointed out I went zero to sixty and I wasn't being fair.
> 
> Here's an example from my life.
> 
> ...


Yes! Thank you for sharing. I wish you the best. 
Yes, this is among other things I was referring to. 

Me, I'd probably keep it to myself for a while. Thank you for sharing again 🙏


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Ps79, let me guess if I understand you correctly - would it be fair to say that you and your husband see each other as equals in your marriage? Also, at the same time, realize that men and women are different, but equal in value? If so, that is the way I see things.


Yes, exactly! I value what my husband does and he values what I do. Our roles are different but needed to have a successful marriage.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m sure he doesn’t care what I think. I’m a woman, and after all, and women are just slaves with no value. He can’t give marriage advice, because his wife has no say in anything, so of course he’s happy and she doesn’t matter. You must be the same.


Well, I have been having productive and good conversations with women on this forum for years and I've both given and received advice from women here during my time here as well.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with slave talk but it could be really offensive if it wasn't so cartoon like. Hyperbole?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m sure he doesn’t care what I think. I’m a woman, and after all, and women are just slaves with no value. He can’t give marriage advice, because his wife has no say in anything, so of course he’s happy and she doesn’t matter. You must be the same.


Do you appreciate when someone takes what you didn't say, inserts their own idea of things, and then espouses it as if it were true?

I doubt Conan does, either. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

@ConanHub, you BARBARIAN, you! Quit trying to do right by your wife and family. That's crazy talk! Shame on you! 🤣😂🤣


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> Do you appreciate when someone takes what you didn't say, inserts their own idea of things, and then espouses it as if it were true?
> 
> I doubt Conan does, either.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


"Submissive" is a word with a definition. There's no inserting of ideas there.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> "Submissive" is a word with a definition. There's no inserting of ideas there.


It certainly is.

And what I can unequivocally tell you is that submissive is NOT synonymous with slave.

In any relationship, one partner acquiesces more than the other. And when both people say in a monogamous relationship that they are 50/50, more often than not the woman is the dominant one. 

There is nothing wrong with being dominant or submissive per se, but it can be unhealthy when combined with being abusive. 

I've seen nothing from Conan to indicate such. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Per the OP's question, I don't think it's healthy to keep things from your spouse. In either direction. Does it mean that either spouse must blurt out every thought or do so as soon as they occur? Please, no.

In a healthy relationship, the couple is a team. Both should be adults with emotional autonomy, who play to the strengths of their personalities and gender. A lot of people don't seem to want to admit that genders are different. Men aren't going to think like women. Women aren't going to think like men. That's okay. It doesn't mean that either should take on a child-like role. But when and how they communicate may be different. In the end, though, they're a team.

In our fam, my husband is like the head coach. I guess that makes me the very trusted assistant coach? I'm good with that. We support one another and utilize one another's strengths. He doesn't look down on me. We are of equal value, just different roles. I'm not less than. We have our own thoughts and will...but I rely on him and he def needs me 🤣.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> It certainly is.
> 
> And what I can unequivocally tell you is that submissive is NOT synonymous with slave.
> 
> ...



Look for the site "Biblical Gender Roles." Submissive, in the biblical sense, is slave. Read the article "Why God Wants You to Stay in an Abusive Marriage." Then tell me how wonderful it is for a woman's life to not matter.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Look for the site "Biblical Gender Roles." Submissive, in the biblical sense, is slave. Read the article "Why God Wants You to Stay in an Abusive Marriage." Then tell me how wonderful it is for a woman's life to not matter.


And when you can clearly show this somehow applies to Conan's situation, you will have my undivided attention. 

But because it does not apply, nor does it apply to my marriage where my wife also chooses to be submissive with me in many (but not nearly all) ways, and because you refuse to see this can possibly be nuanced, our discussion has reached a conclusion. 

Take care. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Look for the site "Biblical Gender Roles." Submissive, in the biblical sense, is slave. Read the article "Why God Wants You to Stay in an Abusive Marriage." Then tell me how wonderful it is for a woman's life to not matter.


Who here said women's lives don't matter?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Per the OP's question, I don't think it's healthy to keep things from your spouse. In either direction. Does it mean that either spouse must blurt out every thought or do so as soon as they occur? Please, no.
> 
> In a healthy relationship, the couple is a team. Both should be adults with emotional autonomy, who play to the strengths of their personalities and gender. A lot of people don't seem to want to admit that genders are different. Men aren't going to think like women. Women aren't going to think like men. That's okay. It doesn't mean that either should take on a child-like role. But when and how they communicate may be different. In the end, though, they're a team.
> 
> In our fam, my husband is like the head coach. I guess that makes me the very trusted assistant coach? I'm good with that. We support one another and utilize one another's strengths. He doesn't look down on me. We are of equal value, just different roles. I'm not less than. We have our own thoughts and will...but I rely on him and he def needs me 🤣.


TD, thank you for your consistent, level headed responses. You always bring much clarity to a discussion.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> And when you can clearly show this somehow applies to Conan's situation, you will have my undivided attention.
> 
> But because it does not apply, nor does it apply to my marriage where my wife also chooses to be submissive with me in many (but not nearly all) ways, and because you refuse to see this can possibly be nuanced, our discussion has reached a conclusion.
> 
> ...


@farsidejunky, I'm not sure why you tagged me. Please reread what I wrote. I'm not arguing with Conan at all.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> TD, thank you for your consistent, level headed responses. You always bring much clarity to a discussion.


High praise I do not deserve, but I thank you. 😊


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Twodecades said:


> @farsidejunky, I'm not sure why you tagged me. Please reread what I wrote. I'm not arguing with Conan at all.


I grabbed two quotes rather than one. Thumbs for fingers...



My mistake. 

ETA: It should be fixed now. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Look for the site "Biblical Gender Roles." Submissive, in the biblical sense, is slave. Read the article "Why God Wants You to Stay in an Abusive Marriage." Then tell me how wonderful it is for a woman's life to not matter.


Well, I might be disappointed if you are solely basing your opinion on some strange articles you read that have no bearing on my family dynamic.

I thought you might have had some bad real life experience that was triggering a negative response.

Mrs. Conan loves being submissive to me. That doesn't mean she doesn't have a voice or backbone.

Mrs. Conan is a spitfire and can definitely hold her own.

She has also always driven a better vehicle than me, and generally had higher quality possessions.

She also made most of the household rules, balanced the checkbook (which I have never been in possession of), had almost total control of the interior design of our homes and can travel anywhere in the U.S. at the drop of a hat if she desires without me. She could take a dozen vacations a year if she wanted to but she prefers to travel when I can go with her.

This post hardly encompasses our life but should provide a snapshot of the "slavery" my wife endures.😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> I grabbed two quotes rather than one. Thumbs for fingers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Happens to me too.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> I grabbed two quotes rather than one. Thumbs for fingers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No worries. I just thought I'd been unclear or you misunderstood me.

I make mistakes, too...even though I'm a woman. Just don't tell my husband I admitted it. I've yet to let him get it in writing. 🤣

(KIDDING, folks. Just trying to lighten the mood.)


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Look for the site "Biblical Gender Roles." Submissive, in the biblical sense, is slave. Read the article "Why God Wants You to Stay in an Abusive Marriage." Then tell me how wonderful it is for a woman's life to not matter.


Will all do respect, I can tell you the Bible doesn't say women's lives don't matter. On the contrary, we're instructed to love her like we love ourselves, treat her as precious and delicate. Love and respect her. Husband and wife become one. Not Husband owns wife hereafter. I'll check out your suggested website when I can.


Submissive is also loyal. Taking into consideration the other's feelings. Compromising. Loving. We're all submissive to a certain level. Some more than others.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> I simply can't imagine living in a marriage where I had to think about what I said or did all the time. It sounds exhausting. My husband and I prefer to live open with each other and focus on acceptance and communication.


It's not as intensive as that. As with any other relationship in life, we naturally know how to position our communications.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

All of this talk about submissive wives in marriage reminds me of my mother's views on her very traditional marriage to my dad. She'd say "your father is the head of the household but I am the neck. I move him to see what I want him to see."


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

That is an interesting thread. My wife shares all of her problems with me, and I very rarely bother her with any of my problems (unless there is something she can specifically do about it).

Why? Not sure.

p.s. I guess I'd say that I have zero desire to share any of that with my wife. It doesn't even cross my mind.


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## Ldziesinski (Nov 18, 2021)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


I would never expect my husband to withhold emotions, your wife should be your safe place


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## damo7 (Jul 16, 2020)

Not all wives are the same. My wife is mature, level headed and intelligent


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

damo7 said:


> Not all wives are the same. My wife is mature, level headed and intelligent


My wife kicks holes in things and I carry her like a football and occasionally spank her when she is a brat.😉


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


No matter what, beta bucks, alpha f****, hypergammy is a disease no matter if alpha or beta, alpha fails, your toast. Have prenuptial, take the red pill.


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## imaginativeone (Dec 3, 2021)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Thats's another topic, but I leave the room. That's gross. Good for you if you have that kind of relationship with your spouse. Why can't we behave like we did on our first date? Why do we have to get comfortable and gross as time passes? Keep your butt clean, don't forget to floss, smell good etc etc. Good hygiene goes a long way.


Oh man...you might be missing out on a LOT. After you visit her in the hospital because the doctor told you both she might have a fatal illness, or when you've witnessed the birth of your two kids, or after you've been of service after her eye surgery, after vasectomy recovery, identity-theft recovery, [and a bunch of other ADVENTURES that we've shared]...there's NOTHING that she doesn't know about me.

Very often she literally says the very thing I was thinking, because she was thinking it too or she knows me extremely well.

Very often I'll know that she would like a cup of coffee, or a hug, or whatever - with just a look. Sharing a deep intimacy with my wife was hard-earned AND it required a lot of candor and vulnerability along the way.


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## imaginativeone (Dec 3, 2021)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Excellent. Your opinion appreciated.
> Again, this is maybe advice to myself? Maybe because I learned certain things in my 1st marriage. Not saying my word is gospel, just saying what I've learned. It may or may not be flawed depending on who you ask?


Instead of lying to her, perhaps you might insist on "mature responses" when you share "hard info". You might be pleasantly surprised that she never responds to tough news immaturely, but instead, offers powerful, actionable insights.

As my wife and I learn to invest our own money, she seemed disinterested at first - there's a LOT to learn, and she dragged her feet. Damned if she doesn't marshal those stock charts like a champ now, after some practice.

My idea here is that she has plenty to offer, even with the challenging situations, and it is extremely valuable to have her in your corner with those events too (instead of in the dark).


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


I share everything with my wife. I have cried in front of her many times. It hasn't caused her to lose faith in me because I always get back on my feet. 

The stuff you wrote sounds like a bunch of BS, to be honest.


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## Slowhand (Oct 8, 2021)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


Good stuff! There is one area that it does not fit... in the bedroom! We must convey at all times that the goal is to please her. Find a way to ask her to choose from the menu and serve up her choices as best as you can. Serve dessert after she finishes (kissing and caressing). Then you can fall asleep! That's how I kept the armor shining for 50 years!


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## Willnotbill (May 13, 2021)

DoctorManhattan said:


> One of the things I've learned about LTR is , if you want to remain the protector, provider, the alpha, you must withhold certain information or emotions from your wife, otherwise in her eyes, you might potentially no longer be her 'knight in shining armor ' etc.
> 
> I'm not referring to infidelity, lies, financial etc.
> 
> ...


I always beleive that communication is best policy. If things are bad for me then they are most likely bad for my wife and she deserves to know. She might also have a solution I didn't think about. Most importantly we took a vow that said "For better or worse" so I would not keep things from her.


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