# None of the marriage advice seems to apply



## justsad (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi everyone...sad to be new here. 

I was just wondering if anyone felt that no matter how much marriage advice, articles, message boards, etc you read...that none of it applies to your personal situation. I know that everyone is unique and every relationship is different, but I feel so completely alone. 

My husband said he no longer loves me. He doesn't have any desire to try or to go to counseling. He is still here in our house, we sleep in the same bed, we get along fine until I want to talk about things...then he gets sarcastic and angry. He wants no physical contact from me either. 

I feel like doing all the little things suggested in the Love Dare or by Mort Fertel aren't doing anything. On the contrary, I think some of the things just annoy him. Then, if I follow the advice to leave him alone, I think he sees it as me proving his point that I'm an unfeeling, cold person. 

I am at a loss and I am feeling more hopeless by the day. 

Thanks for reading, it's sad to know how many of you are dealing with this horrible pain. My heart aches for all of us.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Hey - I think every situation here is truly unique, but there are some very common themes in the stories as well.

Mine is complicated because my wife is disabled/partially disabled.

I think I'm also a little bit unique because even though we are separated, my wife continues to come to me for "physical needs". Seems to me that when most women leave the house they are truly GONE, while my wife is at least keeping one foot in the door.

Glad you found us...sorry you have to be here...


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

justsad..don't know a lot about your marriage but there are a lot of similarities..and people can be the greatest help but you must help yourself first...without that you can't do anything for anyone..take time out and honestly access yourself..seek private council if you need to just to break the rut...


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear your story just sad. Let me see if I understand, your husband says he no longer loves you, doesn't want physical contact with you, but hasn't left yet either?

If you are the "good little wife", you get along fine, but if you make attempts to resolve the situation, or if you give up and become distant - then the trouble begins?

It sounds like an emotionally abusive situation and without some strong boundaries you are either going to live with his controlling emotional abuse until there is nothing left of your self esteem, or he will eventually leave and have had a plan all along that will leave you in a bad way. OR, you can stick up for yourself and he might A. Realize that you deserve much more respect than what you are getting, or B. Leave as he says he doesn't love you anyway.

Honey, life is short, and I know you really hope to work things out and be in a loving relationship with this man, or you wouldn't be here. But, you have to get in a loving relationship with YOU. YOU deserve to be LOVED, and loved well. 

Tell him to leave if he doesn't love you so that you are free to find someone worth all the effort you are willing to put into having a MUTUALLY happy relationship. I know that might hurt. That actually may be the only thing that will bring him back to you - OR - it might actually free you up to find a true love that will be there for you and love you and want to do everything possible for your happiness.


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## justsad (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks so much for the replies. You have no idea how much it means to hear a kind word when you feel like you haven't heard anything nice in forever. 

A little background...we were high school sweethearts and have been married for 16 years. We've had our ups and downs, but I can honestly say that I did NOT see this coming. Everything seemed fine until the day he dropped that bomb on me. 

I know that I am mostly to blame for this. I didn't care for his emotional needs and it caused resentment in him. I have accepted my responsibility. On the other hand, I feel like he should have come to me before we hit this point of no return. 

All of the marriage advice I have been reading says to "hang in there and keep trying". I want to do that. I guess my question is...how do you keep trying with someone who doesn't acknowledge you and how do you not come off looking like a pathetic doormat?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

You become happy without him. You remain kind and cordial, but you take care of all the things you need to, you take excellent care of yourself, and you leave it to him to choose to get with the program (marriage) or to leave. You can kick him out if you are not able to rebuild yourself while he's still around. If children are involved, remember to put them at the center and ask "How will this affect the kids?" to every suggestion either of you makes. By doing that, you remind both of you that the kids do not need to be part of your conflict. You may reach different conclusions about how it will affect the kids, but at least you are both thinking about them. 

Get counseling for yourself, work out for the stress relief it provides, buy some nice new clothes, start a new hobby or resume an old, abandoned one. Go to church and/or take a class. By treating yourself like a worthwhile person, you set the standard for how you expect others to treat you.

Although you think he "should have" come to you first, the reality is that you "should have" treated him better, too. But "shoulding" on things does not help at all; the reality is, neither of those things happened and you are where you are, as a couple. He may or may not be able to recover feelings for you. That is beyond your control--he may not even want to try, and perhaps nothing you do will make him take a new interest in you. By taking good care of yourself and becoming a better person, you prepare yourself for the possibility of being alone, and you identify and rectify the mistakes that contributed to the breakdown of the marriage so that you will make a better partner next time, if/when that happens. Don't worry about any of that now, just be good to yourself. Good luck!


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

You don't think the advice applies to you because what you want is a magic potion, but there is no tried and true formula to cure fear. And that's where you are. You are frightened to take the advice for fear that you will lose him, the fact that you've already lost him notwithstanding. So, you keep rejecting every possible solution because none guarantee his emotional return. But you have to listen to the advice given by Happy Her and Sisters359. As long as you wallow in guilt, self loathing, and pity, he is going to deliberately make you feel worse because he knows he has you over a barrel.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

sisters359 said:


> You become happy without him. You remain kind and cordial, but you take care of all the things you need to, you take excellent care of yourself, and you leave it to him to choose to get with the program (marriage) or to leave. You can kick him out if you are not able to rebuild yourself while he's still around. If children are involved, remember to put them at the center and ask "How will this affect the kids?" to every suggestion either of you makes. By doing that, you remind both of you that the kids do not need to be part of your conflict. You may reach different conclusions about how it will affect the kids, but at least you are both thinking about them.
> 
> Get counseling for yourself, work out for the stress relief it provides, buy some nice new clothes, start a new hobby or resume an old, abandoned one. Go to church and/or take a class. By treating yourself like a worthwhile person, you set the standard for how you expect others to treat you.
> 
> Although you think he "should have" come to you first, the reality is that you "should have" treated him better, too. But "shoulding" on things does not help at all; the reality is, neither of those things happened and you are where you are, as a couple. He may or may not be able to recover feelings for you. That is beyond your control--he may not even want to try, and perhaps nothing you do will make him take a new interest in you. By taking good care of yourself and becoming a better person, you prepare yourself for the possibility of being alone, and you identify and rectify the mistakes that contributed to the breakdown of the marriage so that you will make a better partner next time, if/when that happens. Don't worry about any of that now, just be good to yourself. Good luck!


:iagree:


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## justsad (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks guys, I know you're right. He just keeps getting more angry and defensive by the day. I want to hold out hope, but it's looking less hopeful as time goes on. 

I've been a stay-at-home mom for many years. I know what I need to do and that I need to get my life in order. I just feel like he's not willing to give me time to do that. Nothing changes in his life other than he's free to act like a horny frat boy. I am stuck with where I am going to live (I can't afford our house on my own obviously), getting a crappy low-paying job, how I am going to take care of the kids even with child support, and how I can look at them everyday and see the pain this will cause them. 

I don't want to become bitter and hateful towards him,, but the unfairness of this whole situation is a hard pill to swallow.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Is he cheating?


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

justsad said:


> He just keeps getting more angry and defensive by the day.


Did this start once he told you he wants out or before then? Is there a chance there is another woman he is interested in or possibly seeing or are you fairly certain this is a result of the reasons he gave you for no longer wanting to be married? (ie things you were doing/not doing?)


justsad said:


> Nothing changes in his life other than he's free to act like a horny frat boy.


What do you mean by this? He is acting this way towards you or you think he will once he is on his own?

If he is not responding at all as far as being willing to give your marriage a chance, for now the best you can do for yourself is to work on YOURSELF...not things he complained about or wanted to be different as a wife, but things that will make you feel confident and good about yourself...If you are not in the habit of getting dressed nice, made up, doing your hair, nails, etc...start doing that if it will make you feel more confident...start exercising if you do not already...do things you enjoy that you haven't done in a while...if it comes down to it, let your husband know that you will need him to watch the kids on xxx night because you have plans on that night from now on...

don't let him put you in a catch-22...see, you don't care about our marriage you just want to do things for yourself...no! let him know you would want more than anything to work on the marriage but he has made it clear he will not participate and it just won't work if you both aren't invested....

This might get him thinking...seeing what he will be missing if he leaves...confident women are attractive....

also, talk to him about doing what is least disruptive to your kids...maybe he will need to rent a room from someone so that he can keep you/the kids in the house...this won't be easy for either of you but keeping the disruption to the kids' lives to a minimum should be something you should discuss and agree on.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm sure this is a nerve wracking time for you. As you've been a stay at home mom for many years, there are probably lots of resources available for you. The first thing would be to get a great attorney. Get as much child support and spousal support as you can, then look into going back to school to get a degree that will give you better opportunities for a better paying job. There are a lot of scholarships and grants available for single mothers if you do the research.

Keep telling yourself that everything will fall into place. Also, Turnera brought up a great question. For him to go from feelings of being out of love to being angry/defensive could be a red flag that he's got something going on to be additionally defensive about.


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## justsad (Jun 7, 2010)

He is, in my mind, cheating. It has not gone further than texts while he is at work...but it is just the same to me. 

I asked him how much of a factor she is in his decisions and he said not much. He is angry and resentful at feeling neglected by me for so long. He even admits that he will most likely become bored if he pursues and "catches" this woman. 

By him being able to act like a horny frat boy, I meant that he is free to seek the attention he wants from as many women as he wants. I am sure he will do that. 

Everything I do makes him angry, so I need to just do what is best for myself and my kids. I really don't think he has a plan for how this is all supposed to play out. He doesn't realize that it's not as simple as "getting a divorce". We've been together for 20 years...you can't dismantle a life that long in a matter of weeks. 

I wonder how I could have missed all the signs that things were going downhill? I worry that I might just be damaged goods.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would spend a little time snooping to see if you can get evidence of the cheating; maybe even follow him to see if he's spending time with her. Don't believe him if he tells you he hasn't done anything; they usually only admit the bare minimum so you stop asking about the worse stuff.

Once you get a better handle on just how much he's doing, tell him you want him to stop contacting her. If he refuses, call someone important in his life, whose respect he craves, and tell them what he's doing; ask them to talk to him and ask him to stop, if they so believe he should. If he ignores that person, tell his family and friends; find out HER name and contact her husband and/or family and ask them to help you stop the adultery. Once it's out in the open, he will either give it up or move on; either way, you'll be free of the abuse.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

justsad said:


> I worry that I might just be damaged goods.


Not likely. It's the GOOD people, the ones who DON'T cheat, that the rest of the single people out there are looking for. You'll be fine.

But your marriage isn't over yet. There are a lot of things you can do to get it back. But it can't happen while there's another person involved. You have to fight the affair first.


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## justsad (Jun 7, 2010)

I know exactly how much is going on with him and this woman. They text about 20 times back and forth during the night while he is at work. I can see it on our cell phone bill. He makes deliveries to stores at night and she is a night cashier at one of those stores. They have had lunch break together (nothing more than that can go on since there are other people around). He spends all of his time not at work, here at home. He doesn't text her on his days off or while he is here. 

I don't think I have the option to contact someone he cares about to talk to him about this affair. He isn't really close to anyone but me (or at least that's how it used to be). 

I would love to believe that there is a glimmer of hope that our family can stay together, I am open to any and all suggestions. 

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to reply and for your encouragement.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok. Assuming that there is nothing else going on but flirty texts and open visits, you have a fair chance of winning him back. What that involves is eliminating Love Busters - things you do that bother him - and meeting all his Emotional Needs - top things that make him happy.

Go to marriagebuilders.com and print out the LB and EN questionnaires. You can ask him to fill them out, but he probably won't. Try to fill them out as if you were him. Think of things he's said about you, like "why do you have to leave the bathroom light on all the time?" and put those down as LBs. This one will tell you what to STOP doing. 

It's like a bucket. An LB pokes holes in the bucket. If you try to fill the bucket with love (meeting his ENs), it doesn't matter; they will flow out the holes you've poked by upsetting him. No matter how hard you try to be nice, he'll still not 'like' you cos you LB him.

For instance, my husband leaves his dirty Q-tips all over the house. I HATE it! He KNOWS I hate it. And yet he won't stop doing it. It makes me lose love for him because I feel he KNOWS it hurts me but doesn't care enough about me to stop doing it. So I wake up in the morning with a negative balance, and it grows, every time I find another Q-tip somewhere. So, say he comes home with a bouquet of flowers, trying to meet my ENs. It doesn't matter! I can't stop being upset with him because I just threw away yet another Q-tip!

That Q-tip is an LB. The flowers may be an EN met, but the Q-tip poked a hole in my Love Bucket, so the 'good' I may have got from the flowers just flowed right out those holes he poked with the Q-tips. Does that make sense?

So, figure out how you LB him, and make a big effort to stop all LBs; for a good month or two, so as to break the habits.

At the same time, or later, fill out the EN one for him (or ask him to, if you think he will). Men usually have top ENs like sex, recreation, admiration, and domestic support. This woman is likely meeting his EN for admiration; hopefully not his need for sex! 

But YOU need to be the only person meeting all his top ENs. Find out what they are, and bust your butt being EVERYTHING he could want in a wife. If he's not too entrenched in this woman, he may swing back around to notice YOU.

There's also a book over there called His Needs Your Needs (I think), or you can get it at bookstores. READ IT! Very enlightening!

Follow this plan, and you should start seeing a difference. Just remember that he strayed away from you for a reason. We gravitate toward what makes us feel good; we AVOID what makes us feel bad. BE what makes him feel good.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

justsad said:


> I asked him how much of a factor she is in his decisions and he said not much. He is angry and resentful at feeling neglected by me for so long. He even admits that he will most likely become bored if he pursues and "catches" this woman.
> ...
> I wonder how I could have missed all the signs that things were going downhill? I worry that I might just be damaged goods.


He probably didn't connect the dots himself until he met her...she is interested in him and it probably made him feel 'wanted' ... then he reflects and decides that things have been missing in the marriage for a long time.

I would think he isn't being honest with himself/you saying that she is not much of a factor. Even if it's not a full-blown affair...it definitely sounds like she's opened up the idea that the 'grass might be greener'

The reason it usually isn't in the end, is because once you get into another relationship you realize the butterflies go away at some point, you learn the other person isn't 'perfect' either ... and in the meantime you have complications with having your kids split between 2 homes, financial obligations for 2 homes and it's actually harder than it was before in many ways.

Damaged goods? No way! I hope you get past that thinking....actually, if you can use this as an eye-opener...maybe 'yes, i see I fell into a rut and did not focus enough on the 2 of us, etc'....it will help you going forward whether it's with your husband (which I hope is the case) or in future relationships...either way, if he is unwilling to try right now...at least show him the woman he fell in love with way back when...let him see the good catch you are... and do it for you


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## justsad (Jun 7, 2010)

turnera - I mean this with absolutely no disrespect, it is a sincere question. Do you think that the LB stuff would really work with someone is just "done"? I feel like it's just hopeless since he is so disgusted with me. He won't do any of the questionnaires and won't let me have any physical contact with him.

swedish - I think you are right also. I just wish he could see logic through his anger and frustration. 

I am willing to try anything. I have nothing left to lose.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The thing about the LBs is that it is subtle stuff. Kind of like dust around the house; you don't see it, but it brings 'issues.' Remove the issues, and there's more of a sense of peace. 

And it can't hurt anyway to find out what you've done wrong and to work on being a better partner, no matter what happens. You'll feel better about yourself, and know you've done everything.

Also get the book Surviving an Affair. No matter what level his cheating is at, it will help you understand what he's thinking.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Trying to force your changes on him will probably just annoy him further and he might think 'too little too late' ... in your case, doting on him will probably make matters worse.

But improving yourself as a person...walking with your head held high & bringing out the best in you will help you and might make him think twice...but if it doesn't, it will still help you.


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