# Is it REALLY 50/50 in a marriage/relationship?



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

I have often read that the cheater is 100% responsible for the cheating. This, I absolutely agree with. 

But I have also read that both spouses are 50/50 responsible for the state of the marriage. It's _this_ principle that I do *not* agree with. 

There may be 20 "issues" between the spouses that are negatively effecting the marriage. But that doesn't mean that both spouses are 50% responsible for all 20 issues, nor does it mean that one spouse is responsible for 10 and the other is also responsible for 10.

It seems to me that both spouses are 100% responsible for their own behavior in the marriage. 

Comments?

Vega


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

well to me it goes like this. A good marriage is 50/50 but either spouse or wife can only contribute his or her share of 50 percent. So if she is 100 percent in she is fulfilling her half of the marriage. if he is 80% in then he is only 40% involved. So there is a void where needs aren't being met. But the other partner is responsible for keeping the partner involved. However what really tends to happen is one partner slacks and creates a void. Then the other partner stops putting 100 percent so the void keeps opening up. Leading to a point to where there is a huge gap emotionally, physically, and or sexually . That void is going eventually goingto be filled. Maybe not with in the marriage but eventually if either partner fail to attempt to heal the marriage then something is bound to happen. But this is a in most cases deal. Sometimes there are some crazy stories where some one just can't be faithful. It wouldn't matter how hard either person worked because the WS or WH just chooses to be selfish. But in most cases after talking long enough you get to the problems in the marriage that were festering long before infidelity happened.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

badbane said:


> But in most cases after talking long enough you get to the problems in the marriage that were festering long before infidelity happened.


Yes, I agree with this. What I DON'T agree with is that the innocent spouse is responsible for those problems. After all, if the cheating spouse has issues with lying, selfishness and self-centeredness, how is the innocent spouse responsible for any of those 'issues'?


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

The way I look at it is that an affair or any kind of physical or extreme emotional verbal abuse are separate entities from marital issues.

I do think both spouses are 100% responsible for 50% of the relationship/marital issues though. Even if the one person is responsible for causing more of the issues. The other person still has 50% ownership. Ownership in trying to change it, to confront their spouse, work things out, ownership to leave etc.

Where I think affairs and abusive situations differ is the element of power, control, the inability to have consensus and consent. 

In abusive situations, there is no consent to stay in the relationship where the abused is under duress to stay because of threats to their person or even their life. There is also a lot of emotional abuse involved that keeps them there and blaming themselves.

In affair situations there is no consent and no consensus because the betrayed spouse is kept in the dark about their marriage, relationship or the person they're married to. They stay believing that they are with someone that's faithful and act accordingly while being betrayed. The cheater robs the spouse of the ability to make informed consent as to whether the betrayed wants to be in the relationship. There is often emotional abuse and if not, almost always emotional manipulation in those situations as well that lead the BS to blame themselves.

As far as relational/marital issues go. I think both are equally responsible regardless of who causes the most problems or drama in the marriage. This is because both partners have a choice. The choice to stay, the choice to go, the choice to work on the problems together or alone etc. When one person is abusive or unfaithful, there isn't the same amount of choice if any at all. That's why the BS is not responsible for the affair but still is equally responsible for "relational issues" regardless of who started it or caused it.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I don't know that I always agree with the 50/50 assessment either. If the marriage has issues, but one spouse doesn't see issue(s) as a problem, then should it be considered their responsibility as well? I feel that something both spouses have a hand in or that affects them equally, then they share the responsibility equally. If one spouse has an issue with the other but never discloses the issue, how can the spouse in the dark still be held 50% responsible. I agree with what Vega is implying about inequality and not everything prior to the A should be split equally.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

[QUOTEBut in most cases after talking long enough you get to the problems in the marriage that were festering long before infidelity happened. 
][/QUOTE]

i totally agree with this. most always a WS will point to this as reason for the affair.

the problem is, many WS want to R. the question is why would you want to R when the broken relationship drove them to do this in the first place (suposedly)? i mean if you are logical and the realtionship was that bad, seems to me they should be running for the door and not want back in. thats why i believe most affairs REALLY happen for so many other slefish meanings. it was just pure fun and excitiment. the suposed 'trouble' in the raltionship just made the affair easy to justfy in the mind of the cheater.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> As far as relational/marital issues go. I think both are equally responsible regardless of who causes the most problems or drama in the marriage. This is because both partners have a choice. The choice to stay, the choice to go, the choice to work on the problems together or alone etc. When one person is abusive or unfaithful, there isn't the same amount of choice if any at all. That's why the BS is not responsible for the affair but still is equally responsible for "relational issues" regardless of who started it or caused it.


So by your above statement, if one spouse causes an issue in say communication in the M and the other spouse has an issue with it, but decides to work on it alone and never tell the spouse creating the riff, then the spouse is held 50% responsible for the breakdown in the M even though they were not given the chance to change, work it out, or even knowledge of it?? I don't think this 50/50 should apply in such instances, as the affected spouse chose to control and address the situation on their own. I think it should only apply in situation where each had some hand in the decisions and handling of the problem/ issue. 

To me this feels like it is like saying that since I am co-owner of the car I should also get a speeding ticket and be responsible when my WW speeds and I am at home with no knowledge of the action taking place or control over the situation, just because we are both co-owners of the car.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Some people are just too broken and there is no way in h3ll I will accept any percentage of the downfall of this marriage when he put forth zero to keep it together. My stbxh has more issues than 10 people combined.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

I was always told marriage was 75% each. Any problems were the responsibility of each one whether the issue was with just one of them. However communication has to be both ways in order for anything to be solved. Cheating is not the answer to anything. If the WS wants to cheat they need to get out of the marriage. Cheating only proves that they had no respect nor did they care enoughh about the person they choose to marry in the first place.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

No, it’s not 50/50, but just easier to say it. It’s really the dynamics and how things bubble around influencing other things like some intricate web influencing attitude and approach you are both taking.

Hell, you might be able to trace stuff back to not putting down the toilet seat on your honeymoon that created an ongoing resentment that bubbled over to “he doesn’t respect me and never has!”. And on your end, dealing with a spiteful nasty person who is tired of nagging about the toilet seat which you’ve never ‘fixed about yourself’ isn’t exactly going to have you singing praises for her. Hard as hell to find “one thing” that started it all off. It’s usually a whole gambit of things broiling and picking up steam until something blew. 

It really not until you find things where you were acting alone without consideration of your spouse that you can assign full blame. But any marriage is full of them. I didn’t put down the toilet seat yesterday. 100% me. On the flip side; I am not responsible for what she thinks about it either, that is 100% her. And on and on...


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

Your right each spouse is 100% responsible for their behavior in a marriage. Unfortunately some spouses would rather cheat than deal with problems at home or give their spouse the attention they want. I guess its easier to give that attention to someone else.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> To me this feels like it is like saying that since I am co-owner of the car...


No, you wouldn't also get a ticket but you would inevitably be held responsible along with her. Even if your wife got the ticket and then paid the ticket from her own money and personal bank account, your monies are combined in marriage (most marriages anyway) so in a roundabout way the money going toward the fine still belongs to you both and so you'd be held responsible.

Keeping on the topic of driving infractions, if I knowingly added a reckless driver to my insurance and reckless driver got into an accident, it would be reasonable for me to assume responsibility via higher insurance premiums. No, I didn't cause the accident but I still get held responsible.




Squeakr said:


> So by your above statement, if one spouse causes an issue in say communication in the M ....


Regardless of who causes the problems in the marriage, both spouses are responsible for recognizing the problems and both are responsible for fixing it or choosing not to fix it.
And on a similar but separate thought: I also agree with the sentiment that if one spouse has a problem, it means that both spouses have a problem.

If my spouse creates a communication issue in our relationship; depending on the circumstances, I might not be responsible for causing the original issue but I am 100% responsible for what I do about it. Even if I choose to do nothing - doing nothing is still a choice and a choice I need to take full responsibility for. If I fail to disclose that I had a problem with him doing X, I am contributing to the persistence of X happening or the possibility of it happening again and need to take responsibility for that and own my sh!t. 

I don't care if my spouse* over-reacts and I'm a conflict avoider that doesn't like to stir the pot. I still have choices. I know there's a problem and I have the choice to: 

1) Bring it up to my spouse in a conversation or a letter
2) Try to change my behaviour so that a situation that led to X being a problem for me doesn't happen again
3) Ignore it or let it go as a one-off occurrence and forgive him
4) Keep it to myself while seething inside and festering resentment
5) Leave the relationship if it's that big of a deal 

As for my spouse who is ignorant of the problems he is causing, even if he's unaware that he's causing a problem, yes, he's still responsible for having caused the problem.

Moreover, if he's caused a problem with X, and fails to notice, then he's causing two problems. One being X and the other, failing to be in tune to his partner/the relationship to even realize that there was a problem. Still, if that's the case, I might not be responsible for his original ignorance but I am responsible for its continuation and still have the choices above and below.


_As an aside, I don't fully buy ignorance of problems as an excuse unless both spouses are truly conflict avoidant and never discuss any problems with each other._ All too often we hear of WAW/H's on this forum and the left-behind spouse is just dumbfounded that there was a problem at all. Up until they get left, they think their marriage is just peachy. I'm sure it does happen where they are legitimately clueless as to their marital issues because nobody ever brought them up (in the case of two conflict-avoidant people for instance) but I think it's more common that the WAS does bring it up but it falls on deaf ears, gets ignored or they get shut down by the LB spouse until they give up and walk away. Hence, the following:

Lets say another situation happens where I do confront my spouse to try to address the issue with communication. Lets say he ignores the problem, refuses to see there is a problem or totally disregards my concerns... Well, in that situation, I still have choices, and I'm 100% responsible for. Such as:

1) Bring it up to my spouse again in a conversation or a letter
2) Try to change my behaviour so that a situation that led to X being a problem for me doesn't happen again
3) Ignore it or let it go as a one-off occurrence and forgive him
4) Give up talking about it, while growing resentful and poisoning our marriage 
5) Show him how it feels to demonstrate why it's a problem
6) Leave the relationship if the problem is a deal-breaker for me and he won't address it 
7) etc.

Except in unilateral situations where one dominates, overpowers or controls the other like: the rapist and the raped, the murderer and the murdered, the cheated and the cheated on, the abuser and the abused, the liar and the lied to etc. I don't believe there are true victims. In those situations, the ability to provide consensus or consent is taken away either by the threat of harm or by not being informed.

I think we owe it to ourselves to own our sh!t in any situation where we are given a choice, power, informed consent etc. So I distinguished typical marital issues (like communication) from abuse and deception cases because the element of choice is there, the personal power is there most of the time and the ability to alter, change, end or improve your circumstances is also there. 

You don't have to like your options but it doesn't mean that you don't have any and when you do have choice, equal power and informed consent, you need to own your sh!t.

Speaking as a betrayed spouse, being cheated on does not make you a saint. Once you're betrayed so deeply by cheating it's so easily to martyr yourself, demonize the cheater and ignore any responsibility for the past. It's a "safe" place to be. 

The last thing I wanted to do once cheated on was look at my sh!t. I vehemently take no responsibility for my XWS's affair (I wasn't happy either but never cheated) but I do know that I contributed just as he did, to problems in our relationship. I even failed, just as he did to address things he thought were problems before he cheated. 

It sucks, because I'd rather sit in a corner hugging myself and telling myself I'm a victim. It's a safer, friendlier place to be but I also cant grow from such a defeated place. So owning my sh!t after being hurt so deeply is a sh!t sandwich served cold that doesn't taste good going down and it sucks but I have to own it.

Lastly, I must reiterate that I think an affair is a different animal from typical relationship issues. That's why I think that in a reconciliation, an affair needs to be addressed first. It's like a stab wound to the abdomen. Then the relational issues that led up to (note, I didn't say "caused") the affair need to be addressed. That's like a broken leg. If you go to the hospital suffering from a broken leg and a stab wound, they treat the stab wound first, get you stable and then they work on the broken leg.

Treat the affair first. Take away the knife, cauterize the wounds and put each other back on equal footing, with equal power and consent. Then address the marital issues together, with each taking responsibility for the problems, solutions and the outcome.


* I'm not talking about my spouse personally, just using the term "my spouse" for my examples.


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## goshjosh (Mar 23, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> Lastly, I must reiterate that I think an affair is a different animal from typical relationship issues. That's why I think that in a reconciliation, an affair needs to be addressed first. It's like a stab wound to the abdomen. Then the relational issues that led up to (note, I didn't say "caused") the affair need to be addressed. That's like a broken leg. If you go to the hospital suffering from a broken leg and a stab wound, they treat the stab wound first, get you stable and then they work on the broken leg.
> 
> Treat the affair first. Take away the knife, cauterize the wounds and put each other back on equal footing, with equal power and consent. Then address the marital issues together, with each taking responsibility for the problems, solutions and the outcome.



Interesting perspective. My counselor (and to some extent Shirley Glass in "Not Just Friends") has suggested the opposite: work on the marriage first. Address the issues that led the BS to chose the affair. Strengthen the marriage in as many ways possible so that it can bear the weight of dealing with the several-year ordeal that is to come as you try to deal with the A.

Being a few months into this process myself, I feel like there is this festering cancer growing in me that is not necessarily avoided, but not being dealt with head on. Makes me wonder if your approach would have changed anything vis-a-vis recovery. A bit late for me to switch approaches at this point.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Miss Taken,
I agree with your sentiments in the cases where there was a choice. Yes making no choice when given one is making a choice. It is like voting, I feel that one doesn't really have the rights to make partisan arguments when they never vote. They made the choice to not choose sides and vote, so therefor drop the partisan rhetoric IMHO. On the other hand, they have the right to complain about something done that isn't necessarily tied to outcome of the voting. I don't think it is fair to make someone WS or BS the responsible party when they were never given a choice. In my car ticket example, I had no choice but yet you say I am responsible. I agree that I would suffer due to the reduced/ lost income, but don't agree that it makes me responsible. If no one pays the ticket, she goes to jail or loses her license, so how does that make me responsible? In your example you say you knowingly consented, so you had a choice. Two completely different animals.

I don't feel that since one spouse is affected, that makes the other spouse immediately responsible. People are brought up differently and therefor view things differently. If one spouse is brought up in a non emotional environment where no one ever kisses, hugs, or shows emotion, then how can they be responsible for their spouses problems and issues with it when they are never informed of it. They were never taught it as a child and therefor wouldn't know it was affecting the other, yet you claim they should somehow now and are therefor responsible. The affected spouse says nothing and reacts no differently each day, yet one day snaps and does something rash as they are tired of dealing with it internally. They never informed the other spouse and never reacted differently, yet you claim the non-emotional spouse is responsible and to blame (yet they were never informed or given a choice)? I call BS, as in this case wouldn't the non-telling spouse be the same as a controller/ abuser and by not giving a clue taken all the choices away?

I see your point, but I just don't agree that it is so cut and dried. I am glad that you are willing to accept responsibility for things in your marriage that you didn't have control over or a choice as your responsibility anyway, but I don't do this in mine. Not taking responsibility for someone else's actions has nothing to do with owning one's own sh!t!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

goshjosh said:


> Interesting perspective. My counselor (and to some extent Shirley Glass in "Not Just Friends") has suggested the opposite: work on the marriage first. Address the issues that led the BS to chose the affair. Strengthen the marriage in as many ways possible so that it can bear the weight of dealing with the several-year ordeal that is to come as you try to deal with the A.
> 
> Being a few months into this process myself, I feel like there is this festering cancer growing in me that is not necessarily avoided, but not being dealt with head on. Makes me wonder if your approach would have changed anything vis-a-vis recovery. A bit late for me to switch approaches at this point.



I agree with Miss Taken's approach and it makes the most sense to me (I agree that it goes against some recommendations), and can tell you that it hasn't worked any better than what you are feeling now. I look at it as, if they can't own their action in the A and help me to heal from it, then why would I want to invest anything more into the marriage that might have been askew before, but is now definitely damaged and broken from their actions.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

badbane said:


> well to me it goes like this. A good marriage is 50/50 but either spouse or wife can only contribute his or her share of 50 percent. So if she is 100 percent in she is fulfilling her half of the marriage. if he is 80% in then she is only 40 percent involved. So there is a void where needs aren't being met. But the other partner is responsible for keep the partner involved. However what really tends to happen is one partner slacks and creates a void. Then the other partner stops putting 100 percent so the void keeps opening up.


Is this a Math Test? I think I agree...but I made a D in Calc 1.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

goshjosh said:


> Interesting perspective. My counselor (and to some extent Shirley Glass in "Not Just Friends") has suggested the opposite: work on the marriage first. Address the issues that led the BS to chose the affair. Strengthen the marriage in as many ways possible so that it can bear the weight of dealing with the several-year ordeal that is to come as you try to deal with the A.
> 
> Being a few months into this process myself, I feel like there is this festering cancer growing in me that is not necessarily avoided, but not being dealt with head on. Makes me wonder if your approach would have changed anything vis-a-vis recovery. A bit late for me to switch approaches at this point.


I don't think that they mean address the marriage in totality while rug-sweeping the affair. I take it more as to build a bit of goodwill with each other and get things more stable so that you can both deal with the affair or have any incentive to do so. If you're at each other's throats 24/7 I don't think you can reconcile. If you rug-sweep and bury your heads, I don't think you can reconcile.

I think in the beginning of any reconciliation, many BS's have to eat a lot more sh!t than they deserve in order to (I use this term loosely), "win back" (what a prize!) their WS to the point that WS would even want to work on the M. Let's face it, there has to be enough promise of good times and recovery ahead for either spouse to want to try to work on the M after an affair. 

If all you do while reconciling is fight, cry together, discuss the A and your entire relationship becomes A-focused with no good times in between, that'd be wearing on anyone. You need to have breaks, good times, new memories, sex, affection, laughs, etc. to help you persevere during the bad times of dealing with the affair. It's a 2-5 year roller coaster with ups, downs, triggers, progress, regressions, and setbacks. 

Likewise, if all you do is work on the marriage and rug-sweep the affair, that wound is going to fester and you're going to poison the whole system. Hence the way you're feeling now.

I kind of look at it as a sandwich:

Layer 1) Buld up rapport/comaraderie with each other. Get things stable to the point where you're not at each other's throats and have some goodwill for each other.

Layer 2) Deal with the affair and all of the ugliness that involves.

Layer 3) Deal with the marriage issues.

In line with my stabwound/broken leg scenario, I guess we can look at building up a bit of rapport prior to the R as being in the ambulance on route to the hospital with your stab wound. To me though, the Affair (stab wound) still needs to be addressed in propriety once things are calm enough (you've arrived at the hospital), then the marital issues (broken leg) can be dealt with.


*Neither of my examples, about the sandwich or hospital are perfect.* Nothing is that clear-cut and cleaning up a relationship after the sh!t-storm of an affair is messy. Steps will overlap. Sometimes you'll be trying to build rapport/goodwill and the affair will come up. Sometimes you'll be dealing with the affair and relationship issues will come up, and sometimes you'll think you're doing good and then you're triggered by the affair. I don't think it's a quick, easy or clear-cut process. That's why they say it takes 2-5 years to overcome if at all.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

goshjosh said:


> Interesting perspective. My counselor (and to some extent Shirley Glass in "Not Just Friends") has suggested the opposite: work on the marriage first. Address the issues that led the BS to chose the affair. Strengthen the marriage in as many ways possible so that it can bear the weight of dealing with the several-year ordeal that is to come as you try to deal with the A.


I disagree with that counselor. It depends on remorseful or not. I know unremorseful....

It’s what our first round of MC looked like too. Guess what? She got exactly what she wanted: She held me accountable for a large portion of the marriage being in the state it was in. This allowed her to ‘justify’ her foggy thoughts about me ‘forcing her’ to find others on the outside because I was failing at (insert long list of complaints she brought up to the MC). The MC agreed, as did I, that there were these other issues. It fed her entitled feelings knowing that she was right that we had problems and part of them were my fault.

She felt more entitled than ever to ‘blame me’ for how she felt. Guess where that led? Oh yes, rekindling her EA because she needed (insert foggy talk about what I wasn’t providing emotionally that she complained about to the MC and he backed her)..._ Any problem pointed your way will excuse and justify her to seek out what the world owes her...._

Fix the problem the biggest nastiest problem first; A cheating spouse. I ended up having to yell at the MC that all those other problems, while valid, had been ongoing issues she was not willing to divorce me over. However, my wife’s adultery WAS a marriage ending problem that needed to be the focus to forestall setting my attorney loose. I let him talk me out of that stance because he felt she needed to see some ‘good things’ happening in the marriage instead of threats. It worked out really bad for me (and her in the long run because of how this False-R changed me).


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Miss Taken,
> I agree with your sentiments in the cases where there was a choice. Yes making no choice when given one is making a choice. It is like voting, I feel that one doesn't really have the rights to make partisan arguments when they never vote. They made the choice to not choose sides and vote, so therefor drop the partisan rhetoric IMHO. On the other hand, they have the right to complain about something done that isn't necessarily tied to outcome of the voting. I don't think it is fair to make someone WS or BS the responsible party when they were never given a choice. In my car ticket example, I had no choice but yet you say I am responsible. I agree that I would suffer due to the reduced/ lost income, but don't agree that it makes me responsible. If no one pays the ticket, she goes to jail or loses her license, so how does that make me responsible? In your example you say you knowingly consented, so you had a choice. Two completely different animals.
> 
> I don't feel that since one spouse is affected, that makes the other spouse immediately responsible. People are brought up differently and therefor view things differently. If one spouse is brought up in a non emotional environment where no one ever kisses, hugs, or shows emotion, then how can they be responsible for their spouses problems and issues with it when they are never informed of it. They were never taught it as a child and therefor wouldn't know it was affecting the other, yet you claim they should somehow now and are therefor responsible. The affected spouse says nothing and reacts no differently each day, yet one day snaps and does something rash as they are tired of dealing with it internally. They never informed the other spouse and never reacted differently, yet you claim the non-emotional spouse is responsible and to blame (yet they were never informed or given a choice)? I call BS, as in this case wouldn't the non-telling spouse be the same as a controller/ abuser and by not giving a clue taken all the choices away?
> ...


I can respect that things are not always so cut and dry. Life and people don't fit into neat little boxes. Every person and situation is unique. 


Assuming you're speaking about your own situation, I'll address my opinion (and opinions like @ssholes, everyone has one) you can take everything (and should) that I say with a grain of salt.

Whether or not you saw a lack of affection in your marriage as a problem or not, your wife did. Like I said before, if there is a problem with one spouse, there is a problem in the marriage. Since you're both consenting adults with equal rights, in an equal partnership, what's her problem and vice versa becomes your (meaning both of you's) problem.

I have no doubt that some people just suck at communicating, they never say what's bothering them or they lie and say nothing is wrong and even pretend to be happy while growing resentful inside. I know it happens and I've seen it personally. That is their sh!t to own. It sounds like that's what your wife did and you got blindsided. In that case, if your wife had a problem with the level of affection in the marriage and did not communicate that to you, then that's her sh!t to own. She then became the cause of her own undoing by doing nothing to improve it/her relations with you. Her fault and you don't own what she didn't try to change.

If however, your wife did ask for more affection and you brushed it off (something my XWS did to me in the past actually) because you weren't raised that way and ignored her emotional pleas/needs, well - that's your fault.

Ideally, she would have stated a need for more affection and you would have heard her. She would have been willing to compromise by accepting less affection (enough to meet her emotional needs and fill her love bank) and you would have compromised by being more touchy-feely than you were used to. If a suitable compromise could not be reached, she should have just left. I say leave because for me, affection is not something I could do without in a romantic relationship and still be satisfied. It's one of my most important love languages. 

That being said there is NO EXCUSE for cheating. I don't care if you were as cold as the abominable snow man. She had other choices and an affair is an illegitimate one. Man I've typed a lot but I hope you and nobody else thinks I think relationship problems excuse an affair. No they don't. I was not satisfied in my common-law M prior to WS's affair. I didn't cheat and never will. I know because I could have. I'm human, I've been tempted but I won't allow myself to go there. An affair is always the responsibility of the WS. Unfortunately, recovery is not (although the WS does need to do the heavy lifting), there's the rub.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

The day to day problems in a marriage are like repairable damages to a house. And yes one spouse might be responsible for more broken windows, holes in the walls, doors knocked off hinges etc.....than the other spouse. Infidelity then is equivalent to destroying the entire foundation of the house.....the B S is rightly credited with creating repairable damages in the marriage - the W S is credited for destroying it.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> The day to day problems in a marriage are like repairable damages to a house. *And yes one spouse might be responsible for more broken windows, holes in the walls, doors knocked off hinges etc.....than the other spouse.* Infidelity then is equivalent to destroying the entire foundation of the house.....the B S is rightly credited with creating repairable damages in the marriage - the W S is credited for destroying it.


And yes one spouse _might_ be responsible for more broken windows, holes in the walls, doors knocked off hinges etc.....than the other spouse. Then again, the _cheater_ might be responsible for more 'damage' than the non-cheater. 

This is KEY. Even _*if*_ the non-cheater has caused more damage, the non-cheater didn't take a sledge hammer to the foundation. 

Cheating involves so much more than "simply" cheating. It's about entitlement....it's about lying....it's about selfishness...it's about fear...it's about coping (to name a few underlying causes). 

The foundation of EVERY relationship is built on honesty, selfLESSness, being able to communicate effectively, and _losing_ our sense of 'entitlement'. So many relationships are destroyed by ego and selfishness (usually going hand-in-hand) WITHOUT the cheating. Cheating just adds another dimension.

Vega


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I wouldn't get caught up in the percentages. The point is that nobody is without fault in any marriage.

I struggled with this point when I separated from my wife. I honestly believed that our problems fell primarily on her. I could rattle off a bullet point list. It wasn't until we entered MC and heard her perspective that I understood that I contributed to our problens. It was eye opening. Now does that mean that her behavior was acceptable? No, but certainly I own my contribution to our problems. Surprise! I'm not perfect.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

My husband never gave 1%. 

He acted single and ignored me the whole time.

Every marriage is different.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Two alternative ways of looking at this...

1) The longer that I am with my current GF, the more I realize just how much needless drama my ex infused into our relationship. Her in ability to accept that Tuesday evening did not need to be the stuff of a Lifetime movie just injected a ton of optional stress into both our lives. Truly, NAWALT and she owned more than half of the relationship problems.

2) Or, maybe I'm to blame for choosing so poorly and then compounding my error by staying with such a naturally miserable woman. TBH, I was too lazy, broke, stupid and insecure to end it on my own terms. Logically, had I left her crazy ass a year earlier, she wouldn't have had the chance to cheat on me. Maybe I was 50% to blame after all.

Whatever, it's done and I neither get nor put up with one eighth of the crap from the current GF.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

I don't think marriage is a 50/50 thing.. at least not all the time. BUT I do think that the decision making for the benefit of the marriage should be a 50/50 partnership. No more, no less.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Vega said:


> Yes, I agree with this. What I DON'T agree with is that the innocent spouse is responsible for those problems. After all, if the cheating spouse has issues with lying, selfishness and self-centeredness, how is the innocent spouse responsible for any of those 'issues'?


If you work 90 hours a week and your wife mentions that you never have time for her and that she needs more of your time. And lets say instead of going home after work a lot of times you would go to the casino or play golf. Then you come home and realize that your wife is cheating on you. Marital problems are a separate entity from an Affair. Once there is an affair then it wouldn't matter if the guy quit his job, won the lottery, and lost thirty pounds. 
We are responsible for our actions in marriage. AS soon as the WS starts poking her head out the marriage is in a compromised state.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Hard to apply math to relationships. And everyone is different. Some spouses need more attention than others. Some cheat when there are marital problems and some when there are none. Cheating may be a personality trait, hence the existence of serial cheaters. Good communication is a vital ingredient. So if there's a problem it is discussed instead of a EA/PA as a response. But sometimes there IS good communication and cheating happens anyway. Looking at all the different stories on CWI it seems to me it's hard to apply math OR logic to relationships. Every case on its merit. 
Maybe it's not a bad idea for a couple to discuss the dangers of cheating what with internet, cellphones & busy lives that may cause spousal neglect etc. Read some stories together on here. And make a pact that if ever the temptation arises to either: (a)knock it on the head immediately or (b) if the temptation is too strong leave the marriage BEFORE acting on it. But that's the ideal world isn't it.  Still, having the conversation occasionally might be a reminder and a deterrent.
Best I can offer - always hard to figure out the human race. There's always a 'but'.:scratchhead:


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

From were I'm sitting my old lady could have walked away instead of the adultory.

But since smacking my chick around was just as much a betrayal as her infidelity I'll give her the get out of jail free card she gave me.

I think the crap we did to each other back in the day was pretty heavy. What matters now is that me and Mrs. the-guy work 50/50 in using the tools we've learned and prevent it from ever happening again.

Its sad it went down that way ...way back when, but what counts now is keeping your own crap in check so we don't have to deal with the sh1t ever again!


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