# Young marriage, LT relationship need advice



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

I have currently been married to my wife for about a year. We started dating around 10 years ago and for many of those years it was a volatile relationship in large part because we were both young. Also, she was more sexually active than me and the issue always seemed to come up. Another reason is that she is very social but I had extreme social anxiety and rarely went out with her (or my) friends. I can understand her frustration, but please also understand that I literally threw up when I went out.

About five years ago she moved away to NYC to start a job at a big financial firm. She started work with a large group of people and they naturally became social. She really liked her coworkers. Among this group there was a lot of intra-dating. My wife's best friend in this group "Katie," was actually sleeping with a coworker while she was dating her future husband at the time. My wife eventually took interest in a coworker during a weekend group trip. Nothing happened during the trip but from the trip pictures, it wasn't hard to see that an unusual number were just her and this coworker (in friendly poses, but still unusual). The next week we had another fight over the phone and I canceled my visit for the following week. This fight was centered on my reluctance to spend time with "Katie" and her other friends during an upcoming visit. We had lots of fights and lots of breakups, but a few days after this breakup my wife ended up sleeping over her coworkers' place where they fooled around (groped, kissed). I bought a same day ticket and visited the next day (unaware about her previous night's schenanigans) and tried to win her back. She told me it was over and swore that there wasn't another guy - the only reason was that I didn't treat her right. She seemed different and distant so I must have asked her 10 times if there was another guy, but she denied it each time. She made it clear that we really were broken up and I was destroyed. I ended up taking a few days off of work and taking the train to my brother's place in Philly. She stayed over at the coworker's place again the next night for more making out and groping.

She broke things off with her coworker the following Monday and during the next couple of months I talked extensively with her on the phone admitting to address my flaws and really working on our relationship. I tried acupuncture, counseling and medication to tame my anxiety and moodiness. My anxiety also settled down after work calmed and I began working out. After two more months, she decided to move back to be with me and also because she couldn't handle the stress of working in NYC.

Things have been good - we got married, but sometimes I still get triggers that make me think about this other guy and the feeling is just awful. It feels like my heart has been hollowed out and I have a hard time focusing on anything else. 

It makes matters worse that she won't admit that she screwed me over. She is so adement that she was not technically cheating on me. But my response is I feel like she was cheating on me and in addition, it makes me mad that she won't admit that part of the reason she broke up with me was because she wanted to explore her options with her coworker. It matters because all of that time I was blaming myself for the breakup when there were other factors out of my control. This was her stance five years ago and this was her stance last night when things flared up. I took her back five years ago because I was desperate and I was worried that if I didn't pursue her right away there would be more guys coming between us.

She tells me that she'll do anything to make me feel better, but she won't own up to the fact that she screwed me over. She won't admit that her feelings towards someone else was a catalyst for the breakup. She offers to repeat whatever I want her to verbatim but she's clear that she doesn't feel that way - so it's like a slap in the face offer. Plus recently I found out that several of her friends knew about this other guy, so I'm embarrassed when I say we've been dating for 10 years and I'll usually throw in a caveat about a brief break in between.

Of course, she's caring and loving and there are a lot of reasons I love her and married her but I'm worried that I'm still not over this issue. During the past couple of days, I've started thinking about divorce, unfortunately she's two months pregnant. I don't think divorce is the answer. Most of the relationship is good, but this whole episode definitely illustrates her selfish streak. If she miscarries, I will give serious thought to a separation (otherwise the baby deserves our best efforts at a family unit). If we stay together, what can I reasonably ask of her to make this go away?? I feel like a weirdo for having such strong feelings about something that happened so long ago. She genuinely feels bad, but she can't offer me the apology I need because we just view the episode so differently. Is it reasonable for me to ask her to stop being friends with "Katie" who I view as an enabler? Keep in mind, Katie is not a horrible person. She's fine. Fun to talk to and generally nice - but I feel like Katie was a part of riff in my relationship with my wife several years ago.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

there are some things you just have to get over. if she has given you no reason since to be on your guard, then try to get some IC for yourself. the guy may have just want to tag her, and when she realized that, it embarassed her so much, that she won't or can't admit how much a fool she was. as for Katie, you know she is a cheater, do you think her husband know she was dating the coworker?? is she being faithful to him now ?? if so, then that friendship stops now. also, he was her future H, but you never said if they was exclusive while dating.


----------



## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Oops.
Double post.


----------



## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

> We started dating around 10 years ago and for many of those years it was a volatile relationship in large part because we were both young.


Volatility has nothing to do with "youth".




> Also, she was more sexually active than me and the issue always seemed to come up.


She was more sexually active than you when you were dating?!



> Among this group there was a lot of intra-dating. My wife's best friend in this group "Katie," was actually sleeping with a coworker while she was dating her future husband at the time. My wife eventually took interest in a coworker during a weekend group trip. Nothing happened during the trip but from the trip pictures, it wasn't hard to see that an unusual number were just her and this coworker (in friendly poses, but still unusual).


She hangs out with a cheater and you think nothing happened but kissing and groping? I wouldn't believe that for a second.



> We had lots of fights and lots of breakups, but a few days after this breakup my wife ended up sleeping over her coworkers' place where they fooled around (groped, kissed). She made it clear that we really were broken up and I was destroyed. I ended up taking a few days off of work and taking the train to my brother's place in Philly. She stayed over at the coworker's place again the next night for more making out and groping.


They did more than grope and kiss.

You were in an unhealthy relationship and married without resolving any issues. What made you think a wedding band and a slip of paper would change that?
You married a cheater.

Yes, I am rough, blunt, and to the point.


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> there are some things you just have to get over. if she has given you no reason since to be on your guard, then try to get some IC for yourself. the guy may have just want to tag her, and when she realized that, it embarassed her so much, that she won't or can't admit how much a fool she was. as for Katie, you know she is a cheater, do you think her husband know she was dating the coworker?? is she being faithful to him now ?? if so, then that friendship stops now. also, he was her future H, but you never said if they was exclusive while dating.


What is "IC?" My wife has given me no other reason to be on guard - at all.

I don't know what the exact situation was with "Katie" and her future husband...they may have been on a break or open relationship. I'm certain that he knew about the other guy because "Katie" drinks a lot during social occasions and when she did she would talk about the coworker even in front of her future husband. I don't know if she makes a habit of cheating on her husband (I don't think she does), but she is totally guy crazy. She always writes my wife emails about work crushes, guys on the elevator etc. Once again, "Katie" is a very nice girl and a lot of fun. I'm just not sure if I like her other qualities, but it may be moot since I don't know if it's fair to stand in the way of my wife's friendship with her.


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

DanF said:


> Volatility has nothing to do with "youth".
> VOLATILE RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE WE WERE IMMATURE.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Immaturity is no excuse for volatility, either.
I met my current wife when I was 16 and married when I was 18. We have NEVER had screaming matches or any violence at all. We have had arguments, but even then we seldom raised our voices very loud and never to a shout.

The reason i wouldn't believe she only groped and kissed is because she refuses to take responsibility for it. No remorse, no guilt. She slept with him. She's "trickle truthing" you.

As far as resolution, I think that you can only resolve this for yourself with a divorce.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Get over it now before your wife gets sick of your complaints and moves on to a new man.

She married you. She chose you.

That should be good enough.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Indivi. counseling=IR. you have the problem, not your wife. She married you. Does her and Katie go out for girls night out ?? BAD if Katie is boy crazy, that means she is Katie wingman. There are friends that are not good for your marriage. read some of the threads here on enabling friends. Your biggest problem is something only you can deal with. Either through counseling or letting it go.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> "Katie" drinks a lot during social occasions and when she did she would talk about the coworker even in front of her future husband. I don't know if she makes a habit of cheating on her husband (I don't think she does), but she is totally guy crazy. She always writes my wife emails about work crushes, guys on the elevator etc. Once again, "Katie" is a very nice girl and a lot of fun.


Your wife's friend is NOT a nice girl. She's toxic, she's not a Friend of Marriage. I have no doubts she's cheater. She will enable and encourage your wife to "persue her happiness" no matter how, she's an entitled ***** with no boundaires who defends an hedonistic lifestyle who your wife will use a alibi is/when she needs it. She' dangerous. She has to go.

I'm far more worried about your wife who looks like the power games and seem incapable of owning her stuff.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Uh Katie is married and still guy crazy, yeah she sounds like a nice girl. Totally likely to be cheating, but nice unless you are married to her or if your wife shares her values!

Fast, clearly she had sex with the coworker. If she was into sex, and stayed the night they had sex. Admit it, and accept it if you want to stay with her.

I would be very worried about Katue and her influence on your wife, especially after the kid is born and she wants to get out and have fun... Without you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

You guys rug-swept the issues and didn't really deal with them. You're feeling unsteady because you're stepping on a lumpy rug and tripping up.

If you guys don't actually deal with the issues between you -- and it isn't a matter of who is right and who is wrong but something else, you're going to keep at this horrible feeling. Have you tried marriage counseling yet? Have you tried explaining to her that you feel shame about the experience of being discarded by her and then picked back up without even an apology?

She didn't show remorse for hurting you and you wish that she would see that she hurt you. Since you took her back without making her work for it, she feels like she must not have done anything that was too bad because otherwise you would have wanted an apology then. Drop the semantics about whether or not it was technically cheating and just tell her that the way she treated you then really hurt your feelings and that the only way you're going to be able to move past it is if you are both honest and deal with it. Tell her that the insecurity you're feeling because she is dismissing your concerns makes you want to leave her, but you'd rather not because you want to be with her. Ask her to please talk to you about the situation and acknowledge that there are two sides and see if she will talk to you that way. What I mean is...she seems to be avoiding the labels associated with that behavior because of stigma associated with those labels; if you can get her to talk about the behavior itself and how it affected you, she might be willing to let her guard down and open up and talk to you -- especially if she actually understands that this is upsetting you to the point of wanting to leave her because it is just sitting there unresolved.

Get rid of the toxic friend. Insist on counseling. Try a different approach in bringing up the issue to see if that facilitates discourse. And, please man up a little. You're a good guy and you deserve to be treated with respect; don't be so afraid to demand it.


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

moxy said:


> You guys rug-swept the issues and didn't really deal with them. You're feeling unsteady because you're stepping on a lumpy rug and tripping up.
> 
> If you guys don't actually deal with the issues between you -- and it isn't a matter of who is right and who is wrong but something else, you're going to keep at this horrible feeling. Have you tried marriage counseling yet? Have you tried explaining to her that you feel shame about the experience of being discarded by her and then picked back up without even an apology?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great advice. I really wish I didn't sweep it under the rug, I just felt so guilty at the time because I thought the problems were all my fault. I wasn't a saint and I was very hard on her, but obviously we were both at fault for a rocky relationship.

The friend issue is tough. Two parts to it. First, is it fair to blame the issues on "Katie?" I don't know. I've given you guys a two dimensional view of this woman. Who knows how opinions would change if we knew her well. Second and probably more problematic...can I really get my wife to stop talking to this woman? Skype, AIM, Gchat, phone, text. There are so many ways for them to reach out to each other. If I were telling her to stop talking to an ex-bf, that's easier to understand but they were each other's bridesmaids and they have mutual friends.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hang on. Katie and your wife's other workmates/friends only know about her, you and your relationship what your wife told them.

It's easy for a wayward to get incredibly damaging advice from well-meaning friends IF the wayward paints their husband/wife as being the sole cause of all the problems in a relationship.


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

Good point. At this point I don't think sealing off "Katie" is the right thing to do both because she's not a big part of the problem and second because that action wouldn't be enforceable. Also, like you said, it's very possible that my wife gave them a very biased view of me.

BY the way, I would love to get some advice from women. It seems like a lot of the advice is currently coming from men. I appreciate all of it, but still would like a different perspective.

This is a five year old incident, I'm married, I have a kid on the way and my wife is in a different city from her former coworkers so I feel like even thoughts of separation are silly. BUt still, it hurts that it still bothers me. I need to exorcise these negative thoughts.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You could try NLP counselling. It cured me of my irrational freakout fear of spiders so, heck, anything might be possible!


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

Any other thoughts you can share with me? I'm really torn up about this. Should I just give in and stop obsessing or do I have a legitimate reason to be update?


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I was thinking that Katie lived close by, and they spent lots of time together.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

You might want to read struggling4ever's story.His wife cheated and they rug swept and it wasn't until 11 years later that not dealing with it at the time came back to bite him in the a$$.It will probably give you some good incite.


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

TBT said:


> You might want to read struggling4ever's story.His wife cheated and they rug swept and it wasn't until 11 years later that not dealing with it at the time came back to bite him in the a$$.It will probably give you some good incite.


Can you please provide a link? I'm still new to the site and not really sure how to search for struggling4ever's story.

The more we talk about it the more I realize that it's more than just this other guy, it's the fact that she's so careful with her words - not necessarily for accuracy but I think for the purpose of deception. I don't think she realizes what she is doing. She's a lawyer by training...no longer practicing since she now works in finance, but still, you guys probably get the point.

"Katie" lives in a different city. They probably see each other 3-4 times per year but they email each other once+ a day and they talk on the phone every other day or two.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/39748-do-triggers-memories-ever-go-away.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...3-getting-closer-decision-staying-strong.html


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

Very interesting read. Horrible situation and I hope the guy comes out on the other side a happier, better person.

I'm not sure his situation is even close to the one that I'm going through. If anything, it makes me feel bad for whining about the things that bother me when other people have been hurt in much worse ways.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

marriagenewb said:


> Can you please provide a link? I'm still new to the site and not really sure how to search for struggling4ever's story.
> 
> The more we talk about it the more I realize that it's more than just this other guy, it's the fact that she's so careful with her words - not necessarily for accuracy but I think for the purpose of deception. I don't think she realizes what she is doing. She's a lawyer by training...no longer practicing since she now works in finance, but still, you guys probably get the point.
> 
> "Katie" lives in a different city. They probably see each other 3-4 times per year but they email each other once+ a day and they talk on the phone every other day or two.


Lawyers are trained to be careful with their words -- you'd have better luck changing her hair color.

I honestly think you are obsessing with no evidence and that you should work on letting this go. I'm female, btw.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

marriagenewb said:


> Any other thoughts you can share with me? I'm really torn up about this. Should I just give in and stop obsessing or do I have a legitimate reason to be update?


You must know yourself that you have legitimate reasons if's it's bothering you enough to pursue some advice and guidance.



marriagenewb said:


> Very interesting read. Horrible situation and I hope the guy comes out on the other side a happier, better person.
> 
> I'm not sure his situation is even close to the one that I'm going through. If anything, it makes me feel bad for whining about the things that bother me when other people have been hurt in much worse ways.


Every situation is unique in itself,but there are some similarities in both your situations.Do you want to stuff your fears and uncertainties again,only to have them pop up again with a vengeance another 5 years down the road or deal with it now?That's up to you,but I also think,as has already been suggested,that a good IC and/or MC could be beneficial in helping you sort things out.By the way,your last sentence seems like you minimize the value of your concerns and that might make you more prone to dismiss them.....much like rug sweeping.Hope you find your answers and wish you the best.Take care.


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

Any suggestions on how to find a good marriage counselor and what to look for in a good MC?

Sensitive subject obviously so we didn't want to broadcast to all of our friends, but we asked a few and their feedback wasn't good...no leads.


----------



## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Hey I am a little confused on the time line. Where you dating when the situation with the coworker happened? How is the anxiety coming now?


----------



## marriagenewb (Jun 21, 2012)

badbane said:


> Hey I am a little confused on the time line. Where you dating when the situation with the coworker happened? How is the anxiety coming now?


Technically speaking, we were broken up when she fooled around with her coworker but I was upset first because she was laying the groundwork for this relationship before we broke up and blamed me for the breakup when I think it was in part motivated by her desire to pursue this other guy. 

Secondly, we broke up and made up a lot back then and it didn't seem that different to me. So even though we were broken up I didn't think we were "really" broken up and I certainly didn't expect someone else to enter the picture.

Anxiety situation is great. Tried accupuncture a few times but no success. Went to a counselor at the time of the breakup because I wasn't feeling good at all. Took some meds for a few months to get me started on the right path, starting exercising and forced myself to take a more honest look at myself. Plus, I got laid off from a super stressful job - probably helped the most! Still don't love going out, but I have no problems at all in social settings now. I'm actually a chatter box at most ****tail parties. I love making people laugh.


----------



## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

well i think you need to let the past go on this one. you have changed for the better. she has married you. now i m not saying don't be vigilant. however if you have doubts poke around fb, email, dairy, and cell phone. if you find nothing, great you can rest a little easier. the triggers will fade in time. don't let the volatility of your past hinder your growth. the past should be reflected on, not lived in.
if there is no evidence and your gut is pretty much not telling you something is up, then let it go. trust and verify.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Interview them as any other professional, ask for experience at infidelity, as some key questions; who is to blame, how long it takes to rebuild, have you right to know everything?, does he/she know about the guy who wrote Not Just friends (Shirley Glass)?...


----------

