# Battle Royale



## Frstrd (Feb 21, 2014)

New to forum, really frustrated so need advice. Been with wife for 6 years, things have been pretty good. But tonight she was just terrible and pissed me off beyond belief. Without too much details, she was with her friends and left me waiting to be picked up for 45 minutes, and didn't answer my calls/texts asking when she was getting me. Away from cell apparently, though we had agreed to get in touch that night. So on way to get our kids from her parents she refuses to apologize, and then proceeds to annoy me further by changing channel, popping gum after being asked to stop etc. 

So I'm pretty pissed off and start swearing at her, venting my frustration. I have a bad temper, but never would touch her. I probably went over the line with a few things I said, but she antagonized me more and more. Bad scene, worst fight ever maybe. She also punched me for kicks in the middle of this. 

We get to her parents, and she completely throws me under the bus- saying/exaggerating what I said to her, blaming me, another big scene. This was the worst of everything, I hate fighting in front of others. Her parents will never forget this, and neither will I. But they'll likely believe her side more than mine, so I'm doubly screwed. 

It's been a few hours since, and she still won't apologize. Somehow I'm in the wrong, and it's silent time. So to sum up I get left waiting for 45 min, she doesn't communicate with me, I get punched, and then made out to be the bad guy in front of her parents. Am I nuts, or is this ****ed? She's never this bad, we love each other and do have fights here and there but nothing like this, and we've been getting along pretty good. I'm not presenting this incorrectly - I said some over the line things, ex " you're a *****, ****ing can't believe it, I'm so pissed off if I could push you out of car I would (after punch, not said seriously but still bad choice of words)" but I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who should be apologizing. She's pregnant so obviously emotional, but I don't think the pregnancy is the reason for that behaviour. 

Sorry for rant. Marriage sometimes.


----------



## Frstrd (Feb 21, 2014)

Ps we're not trash or morons, though it comes off this way. Both professionals, though acted like children tonight. Also didn't mean to downplay her pregnancy, it is a factor, but not an excuse to treat me like that and disrespect me. She's also type to ignore situation and it'll be up to me to make it right, but I REALLY think that's bull and have to stand my ground.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

First of all, welcome to TAM. But I hope you're prepared for some reality checking, because you're minimizing your role and making hers bigger. 

You say, "I wouldn't hurt her," but you TOLD her "I'd like to..." (push her out of car - who freaking says this to a person they love?) And don't even try the "it wasn't serious" baloney, because you were almost certainly NOT expecting humorous laughter to come from this during a heated argument! If you had said those things to me, you can bet your a$$ I would let my family know! 

You had good reason to be angry. Nobody wants to be left waiting, basically feeling ignored and abandoned, and then have the other person act so inconsiderate that they refuse to even acknowledge that you were wronged!

My guess would be that your response when she DID arrive was to go immediately to blame and accusations, though, instead of owning your own problem. You see, her lateness was not a problem for her. It was a problem for YOU. You have the duty to solve your own problems. While you can certainly ask someone to make changes or take actions, you can't force them to. You can *always* change YOUR response, though. 

If you feel abandoned or neglected, it's because of what YOU think about an event. It's not the event that creates your feelings, it's your thoughts. If I punch you in the arm, you'll have one response if you think it's my way of saying hello, and a different response if you think I'm angry at you. The event didn't change, but because your thoughts were different, you'd have an entirely different experience. 

So she is responsible for not keeping her word, but you are responsible for managing your anger and you didn't uphold your end there. Instead, your response triggered her feeling attacked and well... look where it got you. 

I imagine if you stop trying to get an apology or acknowledgment that she is "wrong/bad/inferior/inadequate" (the kind of thoughts SHE has are also triggering HER responses!) and instead, focus on what YOU can do to prevent a recurrence, you will find healing faster and learn to work together in healthier ways. It's not about getting an apology, after all... it's about feeling valued. You want to feel valued. 

So if it had been me left waiting, I'd hope to respond with a plan. "I am not ok with being left waiting. I will not wait next time." Then, if it happened again, after 20 minutes with no phone calls or texts, I'd be calling a pal or a cab - and I'd let the other person arrive there late to find nobody waiting.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I've had arguments with my husband and we've never said crap like that to each other. We've never hit each other in anger either. Yes, you both come across as rather unsavoury people. What are you going to do now?


----------



## Frstrd (Feb 21, 2014)

Those were lows for both of us, so though we're not unsavoury people I could see how that would fit. Initial thought to reactions here are what I said were just words that escalated because of her, we both say off-side things sometimes in fights, and I live far from home so cab/friend not an option.

But after thinking it over what I said was unacceptable, no matter how I was pushed to it. Our fights, which aren't that common and never this bad, are unhealthy and need to change drastically. I think we both need to improve, I can't say crap like that, need to control anger better, and she needs to work on communication, consideration and also anger. 

Part that bothers me most is airing it to parents. They didn't need to see any of that, I'll have to disagree with commenter, she 100% knew I would never hurt her so it wasn't a protection thing, it was a I'm hurt by what you said and want to show them this. Don't think that's needed, we're adults who don't need to drag them into that, but I guess my words were so poorly chosen that I have to live with consequences now. Terrible night but I guess only can learn from it now.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Your wife was wrong. It was extremely disrespectful to leave you waiting and refuse to communicate with you. Even if she was away from her phone, she knew she was late and should have thought to try to reach you, or that you would be trying to reach her.

That said, you reacted poorly. I believe you that you would never hit your wife. And it's obvious that she knows this. That's why she hit you. If your wife thought you might retaliate, she would never assault you.

But, even then, you reacted poorly. Your wife acted like a child and you responded in kind. That's not very manly. When a man's wife acts like a child, he responds like a man. He's not influenced by her emotions. To paraphrase Kathy above, her emotions are her problem, not yours.

So, what I would do now is offer a backhanded apology. I would tell your wife that you are sorry that you reacted badly to her rude and childlike behavior. Admit that you were upset that she left you waiting far from home and refused to answer her phone. Tell her that you won't let it happen again.

Then, tell her that your plan for not letting it happen again. See, you shouldn't just sweep this under the rug and ask her to pick you up again next week. Tell her that she's made it clear she doesn't want the kind of marriage where spouses depend on each other. And you accept that. So you're not going to depend on her anymore. And she shouldn't depend on you, either.

After that, don't sulk or give her the silent treatment. Be happy and upbeat. Even if you have to fake it. Make your wife believe that you have put the incident behind you. You're not going to stop depending on her to punish her. You're doing it to minimize your inconvenience. That is all. And run the 180. Smile. Get out of the house to do your own thing.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1302891381/The+180

And, if you can't make other arrangements for being picked up in the future, if she's late and won't respond to your calls, just call her parents, tell them that your wife has abandoned you again and refuses to respond to you, and ask them to come get you. That will give them the facts as they happen. Also, if they're inconvenienced by your wife's selfishness, they might not be so dismissive of her behavior.

Some good information for the attitude you should adopt can be found at Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

Good luck.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Frstrd said:


> Initial thought to reactions here are what I said were just words that escalated because of her, we both say off-side things sometimes in fights, and I live far from home so cab/friend not an option.
> 
> But after thinking it over what I said was unacceptable, no matter how I was pushed to it. Our fights, which aren't that common and never this bad, are unhealthy and need to change drastically.


Your first sentence there reveals a very destructive way of thinking. Common, but destructive! 

"...because of her" 

These three words pack a load of information. The first thing that jumps out at me is that you have a blaming/shaming mindset. This is NEVER a loving, constructive approach. It will ALWAYS have a negative effect on relationships. I'm not saying that you shouldn't hold someone accountable, but HOW you hold someone accountable is important. If you hold them accountable by setting out to prove they were somehow "wrong," "bad," "uncaring," or "inferior," they can't possibly respond with genuine love. They will only ever respond by getting defensive - attacker and defender. 

In many arguments, this happens, and you have two combatants instead of two teammates trying to find a win-win solution. Which process do you want for your relationship?

The second important thing about that "because of her" is that you are shifting blame to her that isn't hers to take. She has no control over what you say or do! You sort of realized that, based on what you've said here, which is a fantastic start. I hope you'll continue to be sensitive to when you do this because your original post and your follow-up was filled with indicators of this happening in your thought process. 

She can't "un-tell" her parents anything. You're mad about it, but she was acting within her rights. She is free to share with people whatever she wants to. Further, after the remarks she'd heard, it would be unwise of her to NOT let people know. Many women each year are killed by a partner during or because of arguments they've had. I'm not willing to take your word on it when you say you would never lay a hand on her, because violence already is present (she punched you) and yes.... it could lead to mutual violence. 

While I liked PHTLump's response, this is the one thing I disagreed with, because I think it's highly possible that either you have been physical with each other before, or she believes that possibility is present and was trying to goad you into hitting her or pushing her.

You can't undo what is done. What you *can* do is learn to eliminate blame from your relationship (something that will only work if you both agree not to allow it) and to learn how to own your own actions and feelings instead of all this blame shifting.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

KathyBatesel said:


> The first thing that jumps out at me is that you have a blaming/shaming mindset.


It appears that you're simply doing the same thing, but in reverse. The OP's wife stood him up, but it's not her fault that he was upset. Because he was upset, the OP reacted poorly, and it's his fault that his inappropriate language upset his wife and she escalated her actions and involved her parents in their argument. I think that's incongruent.

If the OP should hold his tongue and temper his actions in the face of his wife's rudeness, why can't we hold his wife to the same standard?


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> It appears that you're simply doing the same thing, but in reverse. The OP's wife stood him up, but it's not her fault that he was upset. Because he was upset, the OP reacted poorly, and it's his fault that his inappropriate language upset his wife and she escalated her actions and involved her parents in their argument. I think that's incongruent.
> 
> If the OP should hold his tongue and temper his actions in the face of his wife's rudeness, why can't we hold his wife to the same standard?


I said he *should* hold her accountable. I just said the "how" part of that is where the problem lies. He's not handling the how part well. She's not on here, so I am talking to a guy who can do his part and can't control anyone else's. There is no point in talking about what SHE should or shouldn't do. She was wrong, end of story. What HE is going to do about it matters, but not what she "should have" done.

He doesn't have to hold his temper, either. When we get angry, there's a good reason for it. We can handle it constructively or destructively.

But again, that word "fault" is destructive. Fault finding does not help anyone. Seriously! 

You said I am blaming/shaming the OP. I don't see that... ??? 

I see where I pointed out what his actions are and how they affect the environment, but I am not implying that he is inferior or wrong. He can certainly choose whatever response he wants. I was honest that I would have had a specific reaction. But am I doing something that expects him to feel bad? If so, I apologize, but I don't believe that this aspect is present.


----------



## stublerne (Feb 22, 2014)

you both come across as rather unsavoury people.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> You said I am blaming/shaming the OP. I don't see that... ???


Kathy, 

I have to agree with PHTlump. Your blaming and shaming here is not only unhelpful, but it's also inconsistent because you put the entire burden on the husband only. For example:



KathyBatesel said:


> My guess would be that your response when she DID arrive was to go immediately to blame and accusations, though, instead of owning your own problem.


Why should he take ownership of her being 45 minutes late to pick him up???? You're trying to gaslight him into thinking he caused that situation himself.



> _You see, her lateness was not a problem for her. It was a problem for YOU. You have the duty to solve your own problems. While you can certainly ask someone to make changes or take actions, you can't force them to. You can *always* change YOUR response, though.
> 
> If you feel abandoned or neglected, it's because of what YOU think about an event. It's not the event that creates your feelings, it's your thoughts._


OK then, by your logic, then the husband shouting at his wife and making threats was HER problem. It's because of what SHE thinks about the event. It's all in her mind, and she has the duty to solve her own problems. By your reasoning, the wife should also say and do nothing when her husband act like an a$$. So they both should give each other the silent treatment. That's not much of a solution.



> _So if it had been me left waiting, I'd hope to respond with a plan. "I am not ok with being left waiting. I will not wait next time." Then, if it happened again, after 20 minutes with no phone calls or texts, I'd be calling a pal or a cab - and I'd let the other person arrive there late to find nobody waiting._


Not much of a "punishment" for the person arriving late, especially since the OP would be the one paying for the taxi, which can be pretty expensive. Of course, that's even assuming he could get a taxi in the first place. 


Here's my solution:

1. Tell her you're upset but don't fight in the car. It's a small space where no one can get away, so it often escalates into things like hitting. If you must argue, wait until you get home.

2. Don't fight in front of parents. If she insists on airing all your dirty laundry in front of them, just say: "you can give your parents your version, and maybe I'll give my parents my version, but I'm not doing this here". Then walk away, or drive home and leave her there. 

3. Obviously you want some kind of apology, or at least reassurance that's she's not going to stand you up again. If you can't get that, then I suggest going to a third party (marriage counselor, NOT parents) to find a solution.


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

You do need to control your temper. You didn't even give her a chance to explain why she was so late before you laid into her. I think she is afraid of you. If I was 45 minutes late picking up my husband, he would be pissed but wouldn't go ballistic on me because he doesn't have a bad temper. The fact that she told her parents is a sign for you to ease up on her. I left my first husband because of his bad temper...think of this as wake up call.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Emerald said:


> You do need to control your temper. You didn't even give her a chance to explain why she was so late before you laid into her. I think she is afraid of you.


I think you are projecting your first husband here. The OP said she refused to apologize, and continued to needle him by changing radio channels and popping her gum. That doesn't sound like a woman who is terrified. 



> _ If I was 45 minutes late picking up my husband, he would be pissed but wouldn't go ballistic on me because he doesn't have a bad temper. _


What if you had refused to answer your cell phone, and when you came late you didn't even say "sorry"? Would he be angry then? I'm guessing that's what set off the OP, more than the lateness per se.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Kathy,
> 
> I have to agree with PHTlump. Your blaming and shaming here is not only unhelpful, but it's also inconsistent because you put the entire burden on the husband only. For example:
> 
> ...


I must be focusing too much on what he could have done, but I still am not sure why my posts are coming across that way. She was wrong and she's clearly not willing to apologize. She's being a complete jerk about it, in fact. IF what he said was accurate. 

However, I believe that the problem is a LOT different than he described, and that it needs to be addressed before anything else. Why do I think that? ... 

I think that he did #1. I believe her reaction (to deny any wrongdoing and to punch him) is a sign that she didn't simply hear, "What happened that got in the way of picking me up on time?" though. His claim that she was with friends and felt she had done no wrong at all makes me think there is a LOT that is not being said! It just does not add up to believable. 

I see a complete absence of explanation or defensiveness from her before she started attacking him. This is NOT how arguments and fights typically progress, is it? 

I also can't picture her being 45 minutes late after being with friends and picking her phone back up (I can't imagine her not knowing he'd blown up her phone, either) and then acting as if everything was hunky-dory, until he said, "Why were you late?" Suddenly she goes nuclear? Nah... don't buy it. 

My instincts are screaming at me here.


----------



## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Don't you have your own car? Nowadays, I take my own car places if there is any question of being able to leave when I am ready.


----------



## Frstrd (Feb 21, 2014)

KathyBatesel said:


> I must be focusing too much on what he could have done, but I still am not sure why my posts are coming across that way. She was wrong and she's clearly not willing to apologize. She's being a complete jerk about it, in fact. IF what he said was accurate.
> 
> However, I believe that the problem is a LOT different than he described, and that it needs to be addressed before anything else. Why do I think that? ...
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what you're saying here- I'm lying, she's lying? She 100% was with friends, and everything else is true. She has since stated she felt she didn't need to apologize because she thought we had agreed on a different time, which is not true from what I remember, and her not answering was because her phone was away enough she couldn't hear it, which is careless, especially because we were supposed to communicate that night. 

I also have never physically harmed her or threatened her, though my dumb remark of " out of the car", meant to show how angry I was and we both knew would never happen, is what probably pushed her over the edge to go to her parents. That still upsets me, but at the least I'm taking this more seriously and trying to change. She's still pissed, and I don't want to go begging to move things along, so that's frustrating. 

Btw, we're not unsavoury people as a few have commented. Our actions here are that, but if you judge people at their worst you won't respect a lot of people out there.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I stated it as an agreement with your own comment of how your actions may be perceived by others. It was meant to be taken as a wake up call that regardless of who you think you are, what sort of job you have, your actions are what define you. It matters little how much a person says they are a 'good' person, if they act like a 'bad' person, that is what they are. I'm not saying you are a bad person, I know little about you, but you need to be the person you think you are, even in a heated argument.

Just to add, we are all judged by our worst moments. Someone throwing their partner off a cliff would be judged by that moment, it doesn't matter how many wonderful moments came before that. That's our reality. If you want to be the sort of person whose worst moments are threatening violence on a person he claims to love, then that is your choice, but don't expect her to think of it as just something that happened in the heat of the moment and forgive and forget. People don't forget that sort of thing.

Not excusing her behaviour in any way, obviously, just trying to advise you that words matter.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Frstrd said:


> I also have never physically harmed her or threatened her, though my dumb remark of " out of the car", meant to show how angry I was and we both knew would never happen, is what probably pushed her over the edge to go to her parents.


You did, in fact, threaten to throw her out of the car. You said it in anger- by your words above you said it in order to show her just how angry you were. 

Telling your pregnant wife that you would throw her and your unborn child out of the car if you could- that is a bad, bad line to cross. I cannot imagine any circumstance where my husband would say that me. You say that you knew (and somehow she knows) that you would never do it, as if that makes it OK to say it. It doesn't make it OK. The fact that it would enter your mind is alarming, and the fact that you let is leave your mouth, as if to *show her just how mad you were! * tells me that you were really out of control, your anger was driving you, not common sense or any caring for your wife or unborn baby.

If my DH said that to me, it would destroy something in me for him. I would have that at the back of my mind for a long, long time. 

I strongly suspect that you don't realize how damaging your temper is to your relationship with your wife. Many people- men and women- don't realize it until a lot of damage has been done.




> That still upsets me, but at the least I'm taking this more seriously and trying to change. She's still pissed, and I don't want to go begging to move things along, so that's frustrating.


I think your wife behaved very badly; not only by being late (I would livid if my DH left me hanging for 45 minutes) but also by starting up a fight in front of her parents. 

You both behaved badly. But, you can't change your wife. You can only change your own actions. 

You couldn't have changed her being late, but you could have changed the aftermath if you'd reacted differently. As it is, I suspect you dug yourself a very deep hole with your wife and likely her family, too.

It's good to hear that you are trying to change. You might consider reading Love Busters by Willard Harley or checking out the list on the Marriage Builders website. That book has been a help to me.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Frstrd said:


> I'm not sure what you're saying here- I'm lying, she's lying? She 100% was with friends, and everything else is true.
> 
> 
> *I am reluctant to use the word lying, but I do think there's a lot more to the story. What were your very first words to her when she pulled up? Do you think her first impression when she arrived was that you were upset? Angry? Sad? Happy? Glad to see her? Choose one. *
> ...


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RoseAglow said:


> If my DH said that to me, it would destroy something in me for him. I would have that at the back of my mind for a long, long time.


Are you saying that, if you were rude to your husband, found out that you upset him, escalated your rudeness to try to piss him off even more, assaulted him, and THEN he responded by saying something awful, you would love him less? Personally, I think the OP showed a good deal of restraint. If my wife assaults me, I reserve the right to use more than harsh words with her.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> Are you saying that, if you were rude to your husband, found out that you upset him, escalated your rudeness to try to piss him off even more, assaulted him, and THEN he responded by saying something awful, you would love him less? Personally, I think the OP showed a good deal of restraint. If my wife assaults me, I reserve the right to use more than harsh words with her.


I want to separate out her obviously terrible behavior. She should never have assaulted her husband.

Now, as to his response, yes, it would stay with me. There are some things that once said, can never be unsaid.

For instance, it is one thing if, in a very heated fight, I call my H a "pu$$y as$$ pathetic excuse of a man"- this is terrible behavior ! 

But it can go up another level- "I am sick of dealing with your pu$$y-as$$ Bullsh#t. I think I am going to f3ck a REAL MAN.I am going to f3ck Matt [his older brother]. I bet Matt's [member] tastes amazing, I might even let him in my [backdoor]. I bet he has skills you can only dream of! I will be sure to tell you JUST HOW MUCH Better his [member] is, you pathetic a$$!"

Then a little later, "OMG. You know I would never do that, right? Matt is disgusting. I can smell his grossness before he comes into the room, some one needs to tell him to brush his teeth! I just wanted to let you know that I was really mad!"

My husband might forget the first example, but I doubt he would ever forget me saying the second, escalated one. Even if he thought I would never go for his brother, or his brother would go for me, he would never forget that I thought it up, that in my head I was comparing Matt to him. Or anyone!

(BTW my husband doesn't have a brother, this is purely hypothetical!)

To me, that is a male equivalent. I would never forget my husband saying he would throw me and our unborn baby out of a moving car if he could (especially if I was the one driving, which would have been the preventative factor.) That bell just can't be unrung.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RoseAglow said:


> I want to separate out her obviously terrible behavior. She should never have assaulted her husband.
> 
> Now, as to his response, yes, it would stay with me. There are some things that once said, can never be unsaid.


I agree that there are things that are terrible, and there are things that are unforgivable. I just think that those things aren't static and depend on the context of a situation. If my wife burns dinner, and I call her a wh0re and slap her, that's an unacceptable response. If my wife screws another man, and I call her a wh0re and slap her, she got off easy.

For the OP, I suppose I just have a different sense of the context than you do. If his wife were late, and even refused to apologize, then I don't think it's appropriate for him to say that he wished he could shove her out of the car. However, once his wife assaulted him, then I think his statement becomes understandable and forgivable.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> I agree that there are things that are terrible, and there are things that are unforgivable. I just think that those things aren't static and depend on the context of a situation. If my wife burns dinner, and I call her a wh0re and slap her, that's an unacceptable response. If my wife screws another man, and I call her a wh0re and slap her, she got off easy.
> 
> For the OP, I suppose I just have a different sense of the context than you do. If his wife were late, and even refused to apologize, then I don't think it's appropriate for him to say that he wished he could shove her out of the car. However, once his wife assaulted him, then I think his statement becomes understandable and forgivable.


I think we are talking about slightly different things. You are saying his actions are forgivable. Yes, maybe they are. But, are those words forgettable? 

I would never forget them. In my example, my husband might forgive me for what I said when I flew off the handle, but I doubt he would ever forget it.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Your temper got you in trouble and when pissed, you say things that you don't mean and words hurt and once it rolls off your tongue and hit's the other persons ear, you can't take it back so yeah you were wrong and you do owe her an apology BUT.

No one and I mean no one has the right to hit another person. I don't care if it's you wife and she can be ten years pregnant, she doesn't have the right to hit you. 

I would tell her that your sorry for your choice of words and threats but I would let her know in no uncertain terms that if she ever hits, slaps, bites or kicks you again, she will be living at Moms house because there is NO EXCUSE for being assaulted by anyone. Just because your a woman, it doesn't give you the right to hit. 

Yeah you shot your mouth off but you didn't throw her out of the car and she should have kept her hands to herself and not include her family in it. Childish.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RoseAglow said:


> I think we are talking about slightly different things. You are saying his actions are forgivable. Yes, maybe they are. But, are those words forgettable?
> 
> I would never forget them. In my example, my husband might forgive me for what I said when I flew off the handle, but I doubt he would ever forget it.


His words may not be forgettable. But, again, the context is important. He didn't just say them out of the blue. If my wife said unforgettably harsh things to me *immediately after I punched her*, I would cut her some slack and recognize that she's probably not a psychopath.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> His words may not be forgettable. But, again, the context is important. He didn't just say them out of the blue. If my wife said unforgettably harsh things to me *immediately after I punched her*, I would cut her some slack and recognize that she's probably not a psychopath.


No one said he is a psychopath. The point is they both behaved badly in an argument, and since he's the one asking, he's getting a response about his side of it.

So wife is late to pick him up and didn't check her phone, he sulks, gets narky over everything she's doing from that point, blows up at her, wife punches him, he says he'd like to throw her out of the car, she tells her parents.

Yeah, maybe it's because I'm a mother, but I'm just seeing two people who behave like children here. I'm not going to tell one of them, 'there there, you are completely justified saying whatever you like because she's so terrible.'


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

breeze said:


> Yeah, maybe it's because I'm a mother, but I'm just seeing two people who behave like children here. I'm not going to tell one of them, 'there there, you are completely justified saying whatever you like because she's so terrible.'


In my first post, I advised that he would have been better off to keep his temper in check in the face of his wife's rudeness. I agree that both people could have behaved better. I was simply responding to some of the posts that state that HE'S the one who crossed an important line by mentioning violence. Not his wife, who was actually violent.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> In my first post, I advised that he would have been better off to keep his temper in check in the face of his wife's rudeness. I agree that both people could have behaved better. I was simply responding to some of the posts that state that HE'S the one who crossed an important line by mentioning violence. Not his wife, who was actually violent.


I do not disagree that his wife crossed a line. I said earlier that I also would have been livid to be left hanging for nearly an hour- that was line #1. Getting violent is also a HUGE #2!

AND, it is also true that he crossed a line. He didn't get to the point of violence, but it is still a line.

To me, it is not a either/or or "she did which justified what he did." They were both wrong. She did the greater wrongs, but it doesn't mean that his wrong is therefore eradicated or without lasting harm.


----------

