# After almost 6 years, I think it's time to go



## Darktides (29 d ago)

First, thank you to anyone taking the time to read and respond.

So, I've been with my wife for 21 years, married 18. We are mid 40's, one daughter (adopted as an infant). Almost 6 years ago, I caught, confronted, and destroyed the affair she was having. The problem is, this really wasn't her first rodeo. I'll try and explain.

Back in let's say...2010 or so, she very casually mentioned that one of her female friends had kissed her at a bar. We were in the company of a different friend, and she said it with the emotion of "Oh ya, I took out the trash". Naturally, I was...shocked, because I kinda figured that this falls under the category of things that you should tell your spouse. This is the first warning sign of things to come that I blame completely on myself for not realizing until literally today. Don't be me.

Thinking about how to phrase the next part is making me laugh with absurdity, so I'll just say it: the friend she kissed, it turns out, was a porn star, and her and her husband were involved in the swinger lifestyle. So you can imagine my surprise when I found out about her "profession" AFTER the kiss (about 2 months later). She knew about all this, but never told me- she knows I would have told her that you aren't hanging out with a f*cking porn star and her swinging d!ck.

At this time, I had started a new career, and just let it go. My gut always questioned what really happened and why she mentioned it all, but life went on and there were no more warning signs or issues- until there were.

Around 2013, she's working as a trainer in a gym (yup, you all see where this is going-but wait, there's more), and a local radio jockey apparently wants to start training with her. Gut instinct told me to keep an eye on this. He's married, gorgeous wife and kids, and she had a couple dozen clients at this point (about 50/50 men and women, and this was the first time I felt...uneasy) so it really didn't register at the time. He was 54, mostly bald, ugly as sin, and overweight. Well, he decided to start complementing her on her looks, beauty, etc. over texts. Would make smart ass jokes and tell her that her ass looked great in whatever she was wearing. Again, I saw her text messages (she actually wasn't hiding the phone, and wasn't really engaging other than thanking him for the compliments etc.), read this stuff, and thought "Hey Dark, this kinda feels like stuff she should be sharing with you, or at the very least shutting down." I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned, but I would NEVER even consider cracking a joke that could be misinterpreted to a friend's spouse, even if we are good friends. I digress.

I tell her that this guy makes me uncomfortable, that he seems kind of like a pig, and ask her if she feels comfortable around him. She says he's harmless, and "obviously isn't even my type lol". I have nothing further to go on, so I let it go. A couple weeks later, and she tells me she's going to start doing outdoor training with him at parks, including some Saturdays. Since I have no evidence of anything other than her being receptive to some inappropriate compliments, and, because I did not want to appear to be controlling, I say great. After another couple of weeks, I finally have enough, as the texting continued. I tell her that she is done training this guy or I am going to the gym and I am going to rip him a new one, AT BEST, and end up tuning him up at worst.

She tells him something, I don't know what. I only saw him one other time at the gym. He would not even attempt to make eye contact with me. Pretended I wasn't there, all the while he was red in the face. So that was that.

Then, in July 2016, a new trainer/manager is hired. She wants me to meet him; we both had retired from the same profession. Older guy, really nice, etc. I met him one day at the gym; he seemed nice enough. He was also half my size- maybe 5'7" 160 dripping wet. I am 6'2" 250 and in great shape. I don't really exude a vibe of "lol totally go f*ck my wife". Anyway, I notice she's texting with this guy quite often. Mostly work stuff, but slowly he starts texting inappropriate stuff- sexual stuff not relating to them, but conversation inappropriate for two married people. Making d*ck jokes, gossiping about who's banging who at the gym...that kind of stuff. I can tell he's very clearly trying to latch on to her.

I tell her that I have seen their texts, he's out of line, and she needs to shut it down. She agrees, all the while telling me the same stuff as before- he's older, not my type, ewww, etc. I still trusted her (yup, stupidly, I am aware), and things were fine for a while. Then, sometime in November, she tells me she wants to teach a class with him and another trainer. I say sure, because there would be three of them there. Well, wouldn't you just f*cking know, the other trainer backed out. She asked me if I was comfortable with her teaching the class (this had been one of her goals as a trainer- she was really good, so I didn't want to piss in her Cheerios, so to speak. She only wanted to do the class if I was comfortable with it (I didn't realize what this was at the time, I do now), so me, being the apparent jackass, said sure, I trust you, go ahead.

Long story short, I found out 02.15.17 that they were having a full blown affair. I stupidly thought that this was impossible- she was at work all day- or so I thought. Turns out, they were leaving work to go f*ck in parks, in the grass, out in the open on "trail runs" (their code). They would hook up while teaching the class if they got a chance while they sent the group off running. Other times, they would use his car. Or, a condo we own. Or, one time, cybersex in my house while I was home. Staying classy (eyeroll).

On 02.14.17, my gut was absolutely SCREAMING at me that something was going on. I grabbed her old phone, recovered text messages, and found the evidence I needed. I will forever remember that night- after tucking our daughter in to bed, she asks me if we should go have sex since it's Valentine's Day- I declined.

The next day, I made her lunch as I usually do when I'm home, and when she arrived, I asked her if she was having an affair. She admitted it right away, said they had sex 2x, used a condom, didn't come, started a month ago, etc. Turns out I would have to wait another month to get something approximating the truth- ongoing since at least November, sex 12 times, supposedly only one BJ (interesting because she hates oral, which, as it turns out, ain't true). She had been molested at a young age and forced to perform oral on a family member. Needless to say, I never once, in our entire relationship, asked for or requested oral sex. I did not want to put her in that position or potentially traumatize her. Meanwhile, she tells me this guy is basically begging and pleading for a hummer, and she gives in "to see if she can overcome her fear". Mission accomplished, I guess.

They dispensed with the condom halfway through the first hookup in the backseat of his car because he, of course, couldn't stay hard. She likes to claim that this was a common problem- couldn't stay erect, finished too fast, never took care of her needs. When asked why she went back....over a dozen times....it's because she was hoping the NEXT time would be better. ********, obviously, but these people obviously have a habit to steer far from the truth.

In the aftermath of all this, she has been doing some things right, and a lot wrong. I get that now. I asked her to read books- she will start then won't finish. I suggested she get IC to address her issues- she just started this week, after another blow out where I told her flat out either she does something to address what's messed up within her, or I walk before the holidays. We'll see if she sticks with it. I would send her links to forums, stories I read, situations, etc- she won't read them.

She'll check in with me occasionally, and that's about it. She tries, I think she really does, I just don't think she's mentally or emotionally capable of the kind of deep reflection addressing issues like these requires. She's afraid to face who she really is, because that image is anathema to the one she portrays to the world.

I don't know what the point of this post it. I am tired, I am over it, I am supportive of her...but I just don't think it's worth it. There are good times, sure, but this is always on my mind, daily, and that's that. I don't know if it would be better starting over, or sticking it out until my daughter is out of the house, or just trying to figure out how to forgive.

I resent her greatly that it's taken 5.5 years, threats of divorce, numerous blowouts, to get her to this point.

To be fair, she has never blamed me for her cheating. She has accepted responsibility, and she listens when we talk and I express frustration and sorrow. She doesn't blameshift, yell, or do anything other than eventually break down and cry, and then I am the one comforting her. Funny how that works.

Man the 2x4's and fire away. I'll be happy to add any other information if anyone has specific questions. Thank you in advance for spending the time to read this. Hopefully it makes sense.


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## StillGettingWiser (6 mo ago)

I have my doubts that was her first rodeo. I could go on forever making assumptions, but that wouldn't be productive.

You already know what course of action you should take. Remove the mental and emotional roadblocks and proceed. Otherwise, you'll be in for years of mental torture and trickle truth.


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## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

Dude, you needed to see a divorce attorney 6 years ago.


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## Darktides (29 d ago)

I agree. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that. While I appreciate her effort, sure feels like too little too late.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Is there any reason why you have left it 5 years after you found out to maybe end the marriage? Has something else happened?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Hard to believe you have been able to stomach this for 6 years. I know, of course, having your daughter factors in.
I am going to make an assumption here, as I am both no expert and the background information on your wife is limited.
But, a couple things jumped out at me from your story that make me think it would be worth your while to start researching the Cluster B personality disorders. 
Your wife was sexually abused, a common history for people with a personality disorder. 
She kissed another woman- sexual preference confusion is also common.
She takes huge risks, both with her own and your sexual health. STDs are rampant these days and it is unlikely her affair partner(s) are not promiscuous. Risk taking behavior is a trait of the disordered. 
She lies with aplomb. Must be practiced at this. Another factor. 
And, then, of course, there is the infidelity itself. Cheating is rampant, very much a commonality in the disordered. 
I would, definitely, see a lawyer. You have custody to consider, as well as division of assets and child support issues
Although infidelity is not supposed to be a consideration in determinations in these areas, in most jurisdictions, sometimes it can be used to one's s advantage. 
If marital assets were squandered to subsidize the affair, it can impact asset division. 
If her reputation is important to her and she feels dissemination of information will damage her, it can be suggested that concessions on her part willmavoid this. Leave this part to your attorney as he or she will have to make sure no explicit threats are made to avoid extortion allegations. Subtle, vague suggestions, verbal only, may accomplish this.
As others have mentioned, it is unlikely this is her first rodeo. Most cheating goes undiscovered forever. You uncovered this one but odds are very good there is more.
A disturbed, damaged woman is unlikely to have had just a single affair.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You have likely never had a monogamous relationship with your wife and for you to keep staying in it………. The only one you’re hurting us yourself.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

How old is your daughter now? If she’s a teenager already, I would wait. 

In order to stay, a post-nup would be a good idea. Get her to agree that if she cheats again, you get everything (as much as the law will allow — after advice from counsel, of course). It won’t work at stopping her from cheating, though. It will just help with asset allocation during the divorce.

I would have considered saying that if she cheats again, the marriage automatically converts into an open marriage. That way, if you stay, at least you aren’t in a one-sided situation. (Ask counsel for this might affect any prenup or postnup. Some people say that having sex in an open marriage is still cheating.)

I’d recommend using latex condoms with her if you stay for any period of time. (Yesterday was the time to start that, but today will have to do.)


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

wow ummmm where to start on this one. from everything you said she has had numerous affairs but whether its one or twenty isn't the problem. the problem isn't with her. she clearly wants to be married to you but have sex with other men on the side . the question is do you want to have an open relationship or divorce because from what you said her self esteem is low and anytime a dude compliments her or talks dirty, he is in there. from what you said she accepts responsibility, but it doesn't stop her. if you love her and she is a great wife other than wanting to hook up with whoever she wants and actually try to satisfy them more than you, i would say get a separation, have her move out since she cheated and let her see what a divorce will really feel like. if she enjoys the freedom then divorce . or maybe she will see her self destructive behavior and realize your the one she should be with . also she needs to quit her job asap . being in an environment where every dude there is hitting on her isn't going to help her addiction to flirting and cheating every time you turn your back..


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Get out while you still can. You may still love her, you might be able to forgive her, but I seriously doubt you will ever trust her again and rightfully so. Do you really want to live like this?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

It seems like you know exactly what you need to do and what we are going to say, but maybe just need to hear it anyway?

Your relationship is unfixable. You appear weak to her for accepting all this BS. She has no respect for you and never will.

You need to drop her, yet do so in a way that you can co-parent.... ideally use an app for communication. How old is the adopted daughter?

It is not your fault that your wife has corrupt morals... but it is your fault for putting your head in the sand for so long...

Its time to face the music and eradicate her from your life.... things will get better, but you need to start the process to get on that road....


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

What was your internal reasoning for staying with her when you discovered the 2016 affair?

You seem like you went through the classic rugsweeping, tried everything to stay together, but eventually (5.5 years later), you have come to realize what you should have realized on Dday... that she ended the marriage... just didn't tell anyone or do the paperwork....


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Count me in the camp of those who say it's time to bail. The affairs are one thing, but her inability to understand the seriousness of it or even begin to feel remorse is a killer. She's never going to get there. Don't spend the rest of your life in a zombie marriage.

Then there's that theme I see in almost every WW affair. She offered him sexual favors that you were not worth. I could never get past this.


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## Darktides (29 d ago)

Vangaarner said:


> REDACTED


Lol are you serious? Piss off with your ad.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

CraigBesuden said:


> I’d recommend using latex condoms with her if you stay for any period of time.


My alternative suggestion, sex with her using the old Morse wire telegraph from no less than 3000 miles far.
Even better if none.


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## Hurthusband77 (May 9, 2021)

Hey Darktides, I do t post here too much, more on another forum, but you sound a lot like me and your WW has similarities to mine.

my WW carried on an EA and an EA/PA with coworkers, and an EA with a long time male friend, oh and a ONS before we got married. The A’s were from 2012-2015, I discovered one of them in 2016, then years of trickle truth. Got to the same point you did, I demanded counseling for her or I was done. This was 3 years after dday. We have one son, about 16 now.

would I do this all over again, no. Should have left when I found out, but I stayed and put myself through misery.

We are in a better place today. She did work on herself and is a better person than she was before. I do love her, I always have, but it has changed. I can’t be 100% with her, the affairs and lying are always there.

just wanted to say I get it and totally understand if you chose to leave or stay. If you stay, she has to make big changes and show effort, not just BS words and crying (mine did a lot of that too, manipulation). Mine had to get to a point where she felt I was out the door before she got her ass in gear. Sorry you’re here brother.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Darktides said:


> Lol are you serious? Piss off with your ad.


*Please do not feed spammers. Just report them.*


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

You have created this situation by threatening and never carrying out the threats. Talk with several lawyers in your area and pick the best one, then have her served at work. Expose her affairs to the other betrayed spouses and let your families know. Read No More Mr Nice Guy. Read the 180.

Stop telling her how to save the marriage. You can’t fix stupid or a spouse that doesn’t care enough to change.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Darktides said:


> I agree. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that. While I appreciate her effort, sure feels like too little too late.


What effort has she done independent from your suggesting that she should do it? 

Is she even putting half the effort in fixing this that she did in her many affairs?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Do you even know everybody she has slept with? Has there been ONS that you know nothing about?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@Darktides 
You tried to rug sweep (ignore and pretend it didn't happen) for 6 years and you are now suffering through the fact that that doesn't work. She has done nothing to help you and hasn't even admitted to all she has done. You caught her numerous times and she never told you about anything you didn't find out on your own. Unless you are OK with her continuing with her extramarital activities your only real option is to move on with your life. You can't erase it or block it out so you need to leave her and find someone who has the same values of trust and loyalty as you, your wife does not.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

OP, I'm really sorry you are here. Your WW is a cake eater, and one that can't seem to turn down advances from any man. It sounds like she's likely very attractive and fit, you are fit, yet she has sex with just about anyone who will pay her to train them and will feed her a constant stream of compliments. Seems like she is addicted to getting her ego stroked.

You've received some great advice here, but I will 2nd the suggestion that you give a lot of thought to whether you want to, or can, go through the process of R. And, can you live with how you will feel on the other side, assuming your WW is able to get her **** together. Look around and you will see more than a few men who have "better marriages" after a "successful" R, but are still not really happy, and know their marriage will never be what they thought they had before. Some, like one poster above, say they wish they had just called it quits back on D Day. Then again, some are able to move forward without being bothered by thoughts like that.

One piece of advice I will give you is this -- your WW's IC needs to be a therapist who specializes in infidelity. And I would recommend you go to the first session to ensure she tells the entire story, but also to give the IC a mini interview to make sure she doesn't subscribe to any "unmet needs" BS that some do. Lazy ICs find it easier to try to apportion blame for the affair on both partners, because it makes their job easier and pleases their client (your WW, in this case). If her IC won't hold her feet to the fire to get at and fix her issues, your WW will never be a safe partner, for you or anyone else.

Hang in there.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

You should tell your daughter. If she is old enough, the court will let her choose her custodial parent. She should know about the infidelity when she makes that choice.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

skipping over a lot of posts which, essentially, say the same thing - you need to find your "manliness" and screw up the courage (?!) to do right by yourself -



CrapMan said:


> Dude, you needed to see a divorce attorney 6 years ago.


Pretty much lays out the truth


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

_You know she had at least 2 physical affairs. That's likely only the tip of the iceberg. It sounds like staying any longer is going to severely impact your mental health. _


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

You lost 6 years of your life. You could have been moved on and healed by now. Don't waste another 6 years, you only get to go around once and that's it.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

It's not your fault she cheated on you but one of the more brutal lessons I learned when I was younger is the social dynamic between men plays highly into women's sexual attraction. For example, an overweight midget could walk into a room with a 10 foot tall bodybuilder and if that midget, through conversation and action, walks all over the bodybuilder the women watching will want to have sex with him more.

A lot of the ways you responded to things are huge turn offs for women. Assuming because those guys were fat and bald they were no threat, telling your wife to handle it instead of handling it yourself. And not being decisive when you found out she was cheating.

At this point it's not just the cheating, she clearly has no respect for you. To the point she's putting in the bare minimum amount of effort she feels she needs to in order to shut you up and keep the marriage going. So figure out what you want to do and do it already. Either find a way to live with a wife who doesn't respect you or find the strength to move on. Make your choice.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Darktides said:


> First, thank you to anyone taking the time to read and respond.
> 
> So, I've been with my wife for 21 years, married 18. We are mid 40's, one daughter (adopted as an infant). Almost 6 years ago, I caught, confronted, and destroyed the affair she was having. The problem is, this really wasn't her first rodeo. I'll try and explain.
> 
> ...


Appears your wife is a loose canon and likes to ride the carousel with other guys.
You should have filed for divorce the first time you caught her cheating and have no doubts she was cheating before and probably still is.
Sure you know the score if you stay with that.
Up to you to decide your way forward and wishing you good luck if staying with her.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

gaius said:


> It's not your fault she cheated on you but one of the more brutal lessons I learned when I was younger is the social dynamic between men plays highly into women's sexual attraction. For example, an overweight midget could walk into a room with a 10 foot tall bodybuilder and if that midget, through conversation and action, walks all over the bodybuilder the women watching will want to have sex with him more.
> 
> A lot of the ways you responded to things are huge turn offs for women. Assuming because those guys were fat and bald they were no threat, telling your wife to handle it instead of handling it yourself. And not being decisive when you found out she was cheating.
> 
> At this point it's not just the cheating, she clearly has no respect for you. To the point she's putting in the bare minimum amount of effort she feels she needs to in order to shut you up and keep the marriage going. So figure out what you want to do and do it already. Either find a way to live with a wife who doesn't respect you or find the strength to move on. Make your choice.


There is some truth to that, but being extremely physically attractive can trump status, power , assertiveness in the case of some women, particularly when one is young. Of course if one has those qualities, in addition to a good physical appearance. even a greater number of options are available.
I agree, it would have been best if he had divorced right away. IMO, having to handle a spouse's cheating by intervening is demeaning to oneself. I always felt if it came to that, I would look elsewhere for a companion. It's not like they are in short supply.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I don't know if I would even call any of this an "affair". IMHO she is leading a whole different lifestyle and is basically doing whatever she feels like. If your goal is for a traditional, monogamous marriage and family life - then she ain't the one for you. She is on a whole other plane of reality. 

You can't buy a bulldog and expect it to win at the dog park, it is just the wrong breed for that purpose. People are the same way. Some are just not the right breed for traditional, monogamous marriage.


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

Well, she's finally in IC, that's a win. However, make sure the IC is experienced with infidelity and helping people with their "whys". Quality of ICs varies greatly and so does mindset around infidelity. Still, it's progress having her go. I would also recommend the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. 

Has she left the personal training business? 

You may be at the end of your effort and want D. If so, no one would blame you. But you don't have to jump straight to D. If she does not follow through in IC and maybe with the book, I would consider a trial separation to see if you feel better without her and to let her realize that she either takes more action or the end result will likely be D. A separation will crystalize that for her, consequences that perhpas she hasn't really felt yet.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I don't know if I would even call any of this an "affair". IMHO she is leading a whole different lifestyle and is basically doing whatever she feels like. If your goal is for a traditional, monogamous marriage and family life - then she ain't the one for you. She is on a whole other plane of reality.
> 
> You can't buy a bulldog and expect it to win at the dog park, it is just the wrong breed for that purpose. People are the same way. Some are just not the right breed for traditional, monogamous marriage.


Right, but many times one does not realize they bought a bulldog until it is too late. These folks mask well.
But, he has known for 6 years now. That is a bit inexplicable, although having a kid and fear of the unknown and being alone might have caused the delay.
It is scary finding this stuff out. Paralyzing for some for a period of time. Depending on one's background, it takes some folks longer to accept reality.


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