# Gotta be a PA....right?



## Cowboy2

Hi All,

I am a dad with 2 kids that recently discovered my wife having at least a very deep emotional affair. That's going to be hard enough as it is because I found texts with "I love you's" going back and forth. I discovered the texts a week ago and found out my wife had an email account I didn't know about. I have confronted her with it and she said she did not get physical with him. I asked about the nature of the emails and she said this was someone that she was with when she was 19(20 years ago) before he moved away and that must be what he is referring to. I'm so confused, I don't know which way is up!!

While the emails don't explicitly say that the physical act took place it is very suggestive of it. She is even saying she wishes to have a life with him, in their house and in their bed!! This is after he says he wants to be with her and misses being with her but more illustrative. I have the emails and can share them if it will be helpful, just painful to see.

I might be able to deal with an emotional affair although this seems to be very deep. Knowing that it was physical would be too much to handle I think. Help me please!!


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## Clay2013

Is this relationship still going on? Did she break it off with him? Does she want to break it off with him? What does she say to you? Is she sorry? Does she act like she wants to fix your marriage? 

Clay


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## BetrayedDad

Cowboy2 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am a dad with 2 kids that recently discovered my wife having at least a very deep emotional affair. That's going to be hard enough as it is because I found texts with "I love you's" going back and forth. I discovered the texts a week ago and found out my wife had an email account I didn't know about. I have confronted her with it and she said she did not get physical with him. I asked about the nature of the emails and she said this was someone that she was with when she was 19(20 years ago) before he moved away and that must be what he is referring to. I'm so confused, I don't know which way is up!!
> 
> While the emails don't explicitly say that the physical act took place it is very suggestive of it. She is even saying she wishes to have a life with him, in their house and in their bed!! This is after he says he wants to be with her and misses being with her but more illustrative. I have the emails and can share them if it will be helpful, just painful to see.
> 
> I might be able to deal with an emotional affair although this seems to be very deep. Knowing that it was physical would be too much to handle I think. Help me please!!



99.99% sure based on your narrative it was a PA. Most people aren't that much in love with out first "test driving the vehicle." Post the excerpts of the emails you think are the most suggestive and we can offer input if you wish. Otherwise, you're probably too late.


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## NativeSun09

Your wife is lying. Threaten a polygraph or divorce to see if she'll express the true nature of this relationship. There is no way they're exchanging explicit emails of flings from decades ago unless the header goes, "remember that time?...". Even then, she's cheating; whether it be an EA (you've already confirmed that much) or a PA. Keep pressing her. Make her come clean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## InlandTXMM

I agree - the odds you get to "I love you - let's build a life" without sampling the goods is almost nil.


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## FindingMyWayOut

Hate to say it, but if they are trading "I love you"s, its physical. They have taken the emotional to the next level. But posting the emails may be helpful to be sure.


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## tom67

If you file and she comes around you can always stop it. You have to scare her and show her you will move on if need be just my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bamzor

Sorry your here. Has she quit talking to him? Sounds like he doesn't live close? This day and age there are pic's for certain. Allowing a week to go by she probably has dumped them if she is tech savvy at all. 
Since you confronted her, with limited knowledge of the extent of there relationship. She is going to say EA. As you press the truth and she has regrets...that's a big if... she still will only slowly let the truth out.


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## Rugs

Yes, it's physical.

We will do anything to tell ourselves these things aren't physical. We will believe anything our wayward spouse says because it's easier. But it is physical.

Old flames are easier to become physical sooner than someone new. Your wife is already familiar with this man so a PA is easy and comfortable. Of course she would lie to you. Everyone lies at this point.

I am sorry to be blunt but please don't fall into a fog of being gas-lighted. This is already a serious matter.

Read a few threads here on how to go about things before you blow-up at your wife or do something rash. Not flying off the handle will be the hardest part right now but the most important in the long run.

YOU and only you can decide whether you want to reconcile with your wife or divorce your wife over her affair.

Take your time and do some reading. Be smart. 

You will need food, rest, and sleep as they are important in your decision making process.

It sucks for sure but you will get great advice and a lot of understanding if you stick around.

Best of luck!


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## thunderstruck

I will say...it's possible that no PA is going on...YET. The OM is fishing for tail, no doubt, so you need to stomp this shyte out. 

Your wife...I've had a few ex-gf's from 20+ years ago contact me out of the blue. After a few "Hey, how you doing?" messages from them, they quickly went into "Love you" and "Miss you so much" mode. The next message would then be about s*x. And no, I never met up with any of them.


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## azteca1986

I'm not sure whether it was a PA. But read enough threads here and you would know to expect the worst. Cheaters lie and minimise.

Read this it will help you:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## ThePheonix

Whether its a PA or an EA cannot be determined by what they tell you.


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## badmemory

Cowboy2 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am a dad with 2 kids that recently discovered my wife having at least a very deep emotional affair. That's going to be hard enough as it is because I found texts with "I love you's" going back and forth. I discovered the texts a week ago and found out my wife had an email account I didn't know about. I have confronted her with it and she said she did not get physical with him. I asked about the nature of the emails and she said this was someone that she was with when she was 19(20 years ago) before he moved away and that must be what he is referring to. I'm so confused, I don't know which way is up!!
> 
> While the emails don't explicitly say that the physical act took place it is very suggestive of it. She is even saying she wishes to have a life with him, in their house and in their bed!! This is after he says he wants to be with her and misses being with her but more illustrative. I have the emails and can share them if it will be helpful, just painful to see.
> 
> I might be able to deal with an emotional affair although this seems to be very deep. Knowing that it was physical would be too much to handle I think. Help me please!!


Sounds familiar cowboy,

Found "I love you" texts on her phone - check

Found a few e-mails that "might" suggest more than an EA. - check.

Confront wife - check

Wife admits to EA, denies PA - check

Same thing happened to me. One week later I found the smoking gun. It was a 2 year PA and a planned exit affair.

I agree, that this type of communication suggests more than an EA, and for now, you should assume it was/is. So here's what I suggest. Don't even think about R with her until you find out. Then you can make a decision - because then you'll know what you'd be trying to forgive. If you can't find anything else after doing your due diligence with surveillance, I'd ask her to take a polygraph.

Keep posting. You'll get plenty of advice on all the methods.


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## Self Help

Is a PA possible, does he live close by. Is there a timeline that you can follow? If he doesn't live close by, does she have the time and finances to go visit him?


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## manticore

the more easy way to find the truth is with a polygraph test, most of the times the true is revealed before the test, cheaters almost always crack and confess while going where the test is going to be executed.

before actually arranged the test, you can throw a bluff and tell her you already have appointed a polygraph test, ask her if she had nothing to confess because once the test have been taken you will not give second chances.

If she confess something like:

well we just kissed.
well we just fooled around.
well we just had oral.
well it was just once.

then tell her, "okey I will still keep on the appointment but now I will ask if it was really just: a kiss, one oral, one time"

and keep doing it until she confess the whole truth.

remember cheaters will normally confess first the less damaging of their actions, and in much less quantity than the real amount.


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## jnj express

Hey Cowboy---you need to come back and stay with us to give us info., on your part, if you want the best wisdom, and help possible---and believe me, no matter where you go---the advice you get here, will be as good as it gets


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## No_one

I'm still dealing with a PA discovery with my husband. These are the things that helped me: Discover as much as you can about the OM as you can. Get as much proof/facts about the situation on your own- confront continually, use educated bluffs based on what you do know. Threaten to contact the OM - whatever you think will trigger your wife to spill it. Cheaters are already on edge wondering what you know, use it to your advantage.


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## MattMatt

InlandTXMM said:


> I agree - the odds you get to "I love you - let's build a life" without sampling the goods is almost nil.


But if they were together 20 years ago then they might count that time as the "test drive." All nonsense, as they each fondly imagine each other as the perfect specimen they were 20 years ago.


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## arbitrator

Cowboy2 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am a dad with 2 kids that recently discovered my wife having at least a very deep emotional affair. That's going to be hard enough as it is because I found texts with "I love you's" going back and forth. I discovered the texts a week ago and found out my wife had an email account I didn't know about.* I have confronted her with it and she said she did not get physical with him.*


*That is largely "trickle-truth" meaning that they have, indeed, been horizontally intimate, and probably very recently!*



I asked about the nature of the emails and she said this was someone that she was with when she was 19(20 years ago) before he moved away and that must be what he is referring to. I'm so confused, I don't know which way is up!!

While the emails don't explicitly say that the physical act took place it is very suggestive of it.


> *She is even saying she wishes to have a life with him, in their house and in their bed!!*


*Implying that there has been a bed and a house to accomodate that horizontal activity of theirs! * 



This is after he says he wants to be with her and misses being with her but more illustrative. I have the emails and can share them if it will be helpful, just painful to see.



> *I might be able to deal with an emotional affair although this seems to be very deep Knowing that it was physical would be too much to handle I think.*. Help me please!!


* From what I can read into this, the EA was fastly rekindled between them and elevated itself into the PA. The EA took her heart from you, and they consummated their lurid relationship with the PA.

In essence, she is a cheater and a liar, and for that alone, you need to do "the 180" on her sorry a$$, and get yourself to a lawyer post haste to explore the rights of you and your kids.Also get yourself checked out for the possible presence of STD's.

Sorry that this has happened to you, Cowboy, but you've come to the right place here at TAM. Sorry to see you here, but the sound advise that you get her will help serve to pull you through! I wish you well, my friend!*


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## life101

1. Place VAR in your bedroom, in her car, and carry one on yourself.
2. Ask her to take a polygraph. You don't need to believe the results, just the threat of it brings the truth out most of the times.
3. Start IC and MC immediately.
4. What do you want? Do you want to stay married to her? If yes, the previous advice should help you.
5. If you are done, protect yourself financially, and file for divorce.
6. Be strong and decisive. No woman likes to be with a weak man. Years of evolution have hardwired them like that, and you might want to swim against the tide, but you will not win. Again, be strong, and be decisive.


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## Will_Kane

If they have access to each other - live close enough to hook up without you knowing - then it likely is a PA.

If they are 3,000 miles apart, they might start throwing around the I Love You's without first having sex.

If they were talking about 20 years ago, you would see a reference to the fact that it was so long ago.

Clean up the emails and post some here and it will give us a better idea.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

thunderstruck said:


> I will say...it's possible that no PA is going on...YET. The OM is fishing for tail, no doubt, so you need to stomp this shyte out.
> 
> Your wife...I've had a few ex-gf's from 20+ years ago contact me out of the blue. After a few "Hey, how you doing?" messages from them, they quickly went into "Love you" and "Miss you so much" mode. The next message would then be about s*x. And no, I never met up with any of them.


Question: What were you saying to them? Not only does 'Love you' and 'I Miss You' seem like words of a psycho but also implausible ... unless you played along. They didn't come out of the blue.

No, chances are extremely high this has gone PA.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Dyokemm

OP,

How close does this POS live to you?

Are there significant periods of time that you cannot account for her whereabouts since this EA started (based on the email chain)?

If he is close by, she visited your hometown without you, or there was a suspicious time when she was gone from your house for a long period of time and cannot explain her absence (meaning he came to visit her) then there is a decent chance this is a PA.

Polygraph is the best way to confirm a PA at this point, where she knows the consequence of failure is D.


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## 6301

Cowboy.

Why would you want to share the emails with us? Were not the one that you have to deal with. 

Sit her down, show her the emails, look her in the eye and just say "explain these" and let her do the talking. 

Then ask her if she feels that they are appropriate emails that a wife should be sharing with another guy. 

Then what you should do is tell her that in order to clear this mess up, that she submit herself to a polygraph test. If she tells you no, then ask her if she would rather hire an attorney and end the marriage because your about to if she doesn't come clean because you have no intention of spending the rest of your life with a woman whose a liar and a cheat. 

If she starts this "I need time" nonsense, tell her she's had all the time she's going to get and the offer of a polygraph is on the table until the next morning and if she doesn't take it then be prepared for a whole bunch of "You ain't seen nothing yet" because you won't put up with it.

You have the evidence. Use it to either break this crap up or hand her walking papers. I would also let the OM's wife know about it if he's married. Make her send him a NC letter. All in all, don't make it easy on her because from what I have read, she's not making it easy on you. Now is the time. The longer you wait, the harder it will be.


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## weightlifter

Please post just the paragraph with the bed reference. Please make sure to include the sentence immediately before and after.

I'll give you odds after that and you answer the timing questions and distance questions.


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## walkonmars

Find out as much as you can about the om.

Is he married? Kids, job, ability to travel to your city etc. 

Don't get this info from your wife, or even let her know you're doing it. 

You can dig for the info yourself online or if you can afford it spend a couple hundred bucks on a pi to do it for you. 

Unless he's overseas or across the country it's highly likely there was a PA.

But even if there wasn't physical contact its because of lack of opportunity not because of morals.


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## workindad

She's lying her ass off. 

Cheaters lie and minimize and tickle truth. It is a standard weapon in their arsenal. The vast majority of cheaters will use this against you for a variety of extremely selfish reasons. Bottom line. They care more about their own well being and in some case their affair partners well being than they do about their spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn

I agree that if the dude lives close it was physical.


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## Cowboy2

The OM lives in the same city, probably 15-20 minutes I would guess. From what I have found out he has a long time GF that he has 2 young kids with. 

He and my W were friends in high school and had some torrid intense relationship for several months shortly after that. They found each other on FB a couple of months ago. She told me about it for a couple of weeks and then stopped talking about him. Then started acting more distant. Maybe the emails refer to something from the past but jeez that is like 20 years ago!!!

I will clean up the emails and post soon to show. I saw another FB message from OM to my W that said how much he loves her and being with her for the rest of his life was his ultimate goal. He has needed her for 20 years! It's crazy!! My W doesn't really have the time to spare that I know of. I guess she could say she is at work and leave early or something that I don't know of but almost all of her time that I know of is taken up.

Thank you for your help so far.


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## tom67

You have to let the gf know.

Print up those emails and show her.

What she does after that is up to her.


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## BetrayedDad

Cowboy2 said:


> Maybe the emails refer to something from the past but jeez that is like 20 years ago!!!


My ex slept her her ex boyfriend from 10 years ago. Some people never get over certain relationships.



Cowboy2 said:


> My W doesn't really have the time to spare that I know of. I guess she could say she is at work and leave early or something that I don't know of but almost all of her time that I know of is taken up.


My ex took days off and left work early behind my back to spend time with the OM. Definitely a possiblity and you're none the wiser. Don't put it past them.


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## thunderstruck

Cowboy2 said:


> He has needed her for 20 years! It's crazy!!


20 is nothing. I had a family friend recently tell me that she's had a serious crush on me...going back 25+ years. People can lay in wait for decades, reconnect and then shyte ramps up...fast.



Cowboy2 said:


> My W doesn't really have the time to spare that I know of.


You have to know that that is complete BS, right? If she wants to play bad enough, she can fit in an hour now and then.


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## workindad

They are f****ing and I don't mean 20 years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad

Get tested for stds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cowboy2

Okay, here are the emails, let me know. Looks bad, makes my heart hurt. I think she must have told him that she went and bought a bikini recently. My W said he must have been referring to a long time ago when they were together but come on, that's so long ago! Who remembers that stuff from 20 years ago!!

OM: My god i wish i could see you in AND out of your bikini. I love your body. I've been thinking about you constantly for some reason today. I want to make l**e to you, I miss being inside of you. i'm very happy that we have a means of communication now, no matter how distant it feels. You are wonderful. Xoxoxoxo

W: I've been thinking of you all day too, but that's not unusual for me. I really wanted to see you, but figured you probably didn't have the car to come out my way. I WILL need to see you very soon. I imagine us together. On a daily basis, in OUR home, in our bed, doing meaningless tasks together, or fun stuff with the kids. I don't want it to just be fantasy-I think it's a huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband. I don't know if it's right or wrong or even realistic to imagine a life with you. But I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off or stop communicating with you. I feel like I would die inside if I wasn't somehow "near" you. I mean, I've tried and failed 3 times, and I can't go 2 weeks without you, without talking to you. I crumble!! Okay. Enough of that. How are you? I'm going to admit I worry about you not working - you're not depressed are you? What's going on inside your smart, beautiful brain? I miss getting to talk to you about real stuff, ya know? You don't have to tell me any of this, just tell me to mind my own, if you need to.

When she talks about not being "near" him I told her she needed to stop being in contact after I found those texts with "I love you's" in them. Obviously they didn't stop, just went to emailing.


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## Clay2013

You kicked her out right? You started no contact right? 

Those emails would have put the final nail in that coffin for me. My xW never even got that far when I kicked her to the curb. She of course ran straight to the OM or I mean "friend' of hers. 

I would tell her here is your long awaited chance to build you life with him. Good Luck as the Door slams behind her. 

Clay


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## tom67

Eww!
Sorry bro get a hold of his gf/wife and show her ASAP!

I really think you need to talk to a lawyer and find out what your rights are.
Expose this affair it may kill this stupid fantasy.


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## tom67

Cowboy2 said:


> Okay, here are the emails, let me know. Looks bad, makes my heart hurt. I think she must have told him that she went and bought a bikini recently. My W said he must have been referring to a long time ago when they were together but come on, that's so long ago! Who remembers that stuff from 20 years ago!!
> 
> OM: My god i wish i could see you in AND out of your bikini. I love your body. I've been thinking about you constantly for some reason today. I want to make l**e to you, I miss being inside of you. i'm very happy that we have a means of communication now, no matter how distant it feels. You are wonderful. Xoxoxoxo
> 
> W: I've been thinking of you all day too, but that's not unusual for me. I really wanted to see you, but figured you probably didn't have the car to come out my way. I WILL need to see you very soon. I imagine us together. On a daily basis, in OUR home, in our bed, doing meaningless tasks together, or fun stuff with the kids. I don't want it to just be fantasy-I think it's a huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband. I don't know if it's right or wrong or even realistic to imagine a life with you. But I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off or stop communicating with you. I feel like I would die inside if I wasn't somehow "near" you. I mean, I've tried and failed 3 times, and I can't go 2 weeks without you, without talking to you. I crumble!! Okay. Enough of that. How are you? I'm going to admit I worry about you not working - you're not depressed are you? What's going on inside your smart, beautiful brain? I miss getting to talk to you about real stuff, ya know? You don't have to tell me any of this, just tell me to mind my own, if you need to.
> 
> When she talks about not being "near" him I told her she needed to stop being in contact after I found those texts with "I love you's" in them. Obviously they didn't stop, just went to emailing.


Like two lovesick teenagers:corkysm60:in lala land.


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## thunderstruck

Think about this...*WHAT DO YOU WANT?*

The line about these two doing things with the kids? I don't know if I could come back from that one.


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## ArmyofJuan

Yup, they have slept together. You can't you "miss" being inside of someone if you were never there.

Dude, the time to be a passive nice guy is over, go nuclear. She is deep in the affair and nothing short of dropping the hammer on her is going to change anything. She is going to lie out her asss to you so don't believe anything she says. This is a BIG deal, don't let her minimize it.

File for a divorce ASAP and let her use this time to pull her head out of her asss and beg for you to stop. You have to be an a-hole now or else she is going to take advantage of you. 

I know it sounds negative but she is addicted to the OM and if you know anything about addicts you can't simply talk them out of their addiction. She needs to feel the negative consequences of what she has done. She needs to be scared out of her wits that you are going to throw her out on the street. You need to show strength now, she stabbed you in the back, don't reward her for it.

Now that you basically know its a PA, do you really want to stay married to her?


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## Plan 9 from OS

A lot of the background is missing. Was there something major that happened recently that affected her in a major way? Does she have depression, BPD, or was there something she told you about that affected her in such a way that she happened to hook up with an old BF?

I know you are not in a good place right now, but this is normally the time when a BS goes the 180 route to help cope with what's going on plus make personal improvements in himself/herself for the future.


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## Dyokemm

Unfortunately, if this POS lives about 15 to 20 minutes away, this has probably gone PA.

Expose the A to his gf and both of your families.

File the paper work for D (you can always stop it later if she pulls her head outta her a**).

Only communicate with her about kids and the D proceedings until she starts showing real remorse for what she has done and doing everything she can to fix this mess.

This would include complete transparency of all communications, NC with this POS by a letter, and a total and complete confession of how and when she betrayed her M to you (a timeline is great for this).

This is the minimum she must show you for you to even contemplate ending the D and considering trying to R.


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## remorseful strayer

Cowboy:

There are not enough facts here to offer any advice. I am quite certain the details are too private to share. 

Can you afford a marriage counselor? You guys need a clear-headed objective mediator. I suggest finding a counselor that specializes in infidelity. 

IMO, the best thing to do, if you want to save the relationship, is to ensure that their interactions have been cut off. 

A new relationship can be addicting. Women need to THINK they are in love to justify things. It doesn't mean they are actually in love. 

But before you go off half ****ed, you need to get all the facts of the situation. A counselor can help get to those facts. 

Going it alone can be too tough as emotions are running high. 

Best wishes. 





Cowboy2 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am a dad with 2 kids that recently discovered my wife having at least a very deep emotional affair. That's going to be hard enough as it is because I found texts with "I love you's" going back and forth. I discovered the texts a week ago and found out my wife had an email account I didn't know about. I have confronted her with it and she said she did not get physical with him. I asked about the nature of the emails and she said this was someone that she was with when she was 19(20 years ago) before he moved away and that must be what he is referring to. I'm so confused, I don't know which way is up!!
> 
> While the emails don't explicitly say that the physical act took place it is very suggestive of it. She is even saying she wishes to have a life with him, in their house and in their bed!! This is after he says he wants to be with her and misses being with her but more illustrative. I have the emails and can share them if it will be helpful, just painful to see.
> 
> I might be able to deal with an emotional affair although this seems to be very deep. Knowing that it was physical would be too much to handle I think. Help me please!!


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## BobSimmons

Cowboy2 said:


> The OM lives in the same city, probably 15-20 minutes I would guess. From what I have found out he has a long time GF that he has 2 young kids with.
> 
> He and my W were friends in high school and had some torrid intense relationship for several months shortly after that. They found each other on FB a couple of months ago. She told me about it for a couple of weeks and then stopped talking about him. Then started acting more distant. Maybe the emails refer to something from the past but jeez that is like 20 years ago!!!
> 
> I will clean up the emails and post soon to show. *I saw another FB message from OM to my W that said how much he loves her and being with her for the rest of his life was his ultimate goal. He has needed her for 20 years*! It's crazy!! My W doesn't really have the time to spare that I know of. I guess she could say she is at work and leave early or something that I don't know of but almost all of her time that I know of is taken up.
> 
> Thank you for your help so far.


Another man says this to your wife and you say nothing back to him..let it slide? Puzzling.


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## harrybrown

Get an attorney and file for divorce.

How would she like it if you had an affair?

Give the emails to his girlfriend.

Maybe your wife will wake up after the divorce, but I would not wait.


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## SaltInWound

Cowboy2 said:


> Okay, here are the emails, let me know. Looks bad, makes my heart hurt. I think she must have told him that she went and bought a bikini recently. My W said he must have been referring to a long time ago when they were together but come on, that's so long ago! Who remembers that stuff from 20 years ago!!
> 
> OM: My god i wish i could see you in AND out of your bikini. I love your body. I've been thinking about you constantly for some reason today. I want to make l**e to you, I miss being inside of you. i'm very happy that we have a means of communication now, no matter how distant it feels. You are wonderful. Xoxoxoxo
> 
> W: I've been thinking of you all day too, but that's not unusual for me. I really wanted to see you, but figured you probably didn't have the car to come out my way. I WILL need to see you very soon. I imagine us together. On a daily basis, in OUR home, in our bed, doing meaningless tasks together, or fun stuff with the kids. I don't want it to just be fantasy-I think it's a huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband. I don't know if it's right or wrong or even realistic to imagine a life with you. But I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off or stop communicating with you. I feel like I would die inside if I wasn't somehow "near" you. I mean, I've tried and failed 3 times, and I can't go 2 weeks without you, without talking to you. I crumble!! Okay. Enough of that. How are you? I'm going to admit I worry about you not working - you're not depressed are you? What's going on inside your smart, beautiful brain? I miss getting to talk to you about real stuff, ya know? You don't have to tell me any of this, just tell me to mind my own, if you need to.
> 
> When she talks about not being "near" him I told her she needed to stop being in contact after I found those texts with "I love you's" in them. Obviously they didn't stop, just went to emailing.


I read stuff like this and it sounds so immature high school stuff. The amount of ego stroking is ridiculous.


----------



## badcompany

Sounds like you need to kick her butt out.
I guess OM has lots of time to chase women being an un-employed POS. Expose to everyone and Divorce her, you have enough proof.


----------



## TRy

Cowboy2 said:


> W: I don't want it to just be fantasy-I think it's a huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband.


 This proves why emotional affairs destroy marriages. That line right there is a full and total betrayal of you, letting the other man know that you mean nothing to her compared to the other man. If she were my wife, that line would mean the end of the marraige as far as I was concerned. 



Cowboy2 said:


> W: I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off or stop communicating with you. I feel like I would die inside if I wasn't somehow "near" you. I mean, I've tried and failed 3 times, and I can't go 2 weeks without you, without talking to you. I crumble!!


 You need to demand full and total no contact (NC) with the other man (OM). You also must demand full transparency going forward, which includes all passwords without complaint, and an agreement that she will not delete any communication from him. 

Tell her that you will be seeing a lawyer soon to start putting the paperwork together for filing for divorce, since according to the email you fear that the odds are high that she will be breaking NC. Tell her even if she does follow full NC, if she does not make the effort to show remorse and to help you heal, that you will move on with the divorce. Tell her that if does not want to make you her top priority in her life, that you are sure that you will be able to find someone that will. It is OK to be sad, but do not beg or cry. Walk away and not listen to her if she tries to blame shift on to you. Her saying that the OM is a "huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband" lays full blame on her for issues with your marriage, as you cannot fix a marriage by yourself. Tell her that at most you are 50% responsible for issues with the marriage, but she is 100% responsible for her cheating.


----------



## workindad

Make a strong plan of action and stick to it. You have been given good advice. I hope you follow it based on the hard lessons learned from others.

You will not nice her out of this.

They are definitely banging in the present. Her last message was present time, not twenty year old memories.

Do a hard 180 for yourself.
Get tested for STDs.
Talk to a lawyer about your options.
Expose their special secret far and wide.


----------



## walkonmars

Cowboy2 said:


> ... But I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off or stop communicating with you. I feel like I would die inside if I wasn't somehow "near" you. I mean, I've tried and failed 3 times, and I can't go 2 weeks without you, without talking to you....



"But I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off..." Cut you off from what? ummmm yeah THAT!

".. or stop communicating with you" So she's not ready to 'cut him off' OR to stop talking either. Get it?

"... I've tried and failed 3 times..." sounds like she tried to give him up 3x and can't just cut him off or get him out of her mind. 

Let her get a taste of reality. Let her go. Get online and see if you can find divorce papers for your state. Tell her to give you the truth or at least a believable explanation. Otherwise to read and accept the papers. Let her go live with this prince of a man for the next 10 years. 

Get moving on the 180


----------



## Cowboy2

That whole excuse about it being from before is crazy to me! One of the texts I saw had her getting jealous when OM started talking about his GF and my W said she wasn't the jealous type but didn't want to hear about that part of his life and he said "You are my s*x life"!!!

What kind of crazy talk is this to say it is based on crap from 20 years ago?! I feel like someone is trying to make me go crazy. Is this gaslighting?

I will get a D consultation and start the 180.


----------



## tom67

Cowboy2 said:


> That whole excuse about it being from before is crazy to me! One of the texts I saw had her getting jealous when OM started talking about his GF and my W said she wasn't the jealous type but didn't want to hear about that part of his life and he said "You are my s*x life"!!!
> 
> What kind of crazy talk is this to say it is based on crap from 20 years ago?! I feel like someone is trying to make me go crazy. Is this gaslighting?
> 
> I will get a D consultation and start the 180.


Good.
Find a way to get in contact with his gf.


----------



## walkonmars

Good plan cowboy. 

And stop taking about any of this with her. The time for talk is done. If she starts it again tell her you're not interested in fiction. And unless she is ready to reveal the truth she should start packing her bags. 

Unless she volunteers to tell you the truth AND reveal the truth to the OM's gf - don't continue to discuss this with her. 


Talk to a lawyer as soon as you can and don't tell her you're doing it. 

Don't be disrespectful to her, don't act mopy or sad around her. Don't scream or yell either. Show confidence regardless of how you feel. 

As long as she continues to gaslight you and considers you a moron don't engage in way.


----------



## azteca1986

Cowboy2 said:


> ... and he said "You *are *my s*x life"!!!
> 
> What kind of crazy talk is this to say it is based on crap from 20 years ago?!


"are". Present tense. Not "were". Currently.



> I feel like someone is trying to make me go crazy. Is this gaslighting?


Yes.



> I will get a D consultation and start the 180.


Good.


----------



## TRy

tom67 said:


> Good.
> Find a way to get in contact with his gf.


 Yes do this. The other man (OM) is unemployed and does not own a car. Maybe when she finds out about the affair, his gf will cut the bum's allowance off and not allow him to use her car anymore.


----------



## Chaparral

The om doesn't neccesarily want to break up with his gf and family. Usually, they are just in it for sex. Find his girl friend. Blow him up, put him on cheaterville.com too.

Talk to your wifes family and tell them what is oing on.

Google om's name, he sure sounds like a loser.

Good luck. Give yourself time to calm down and then decide what you want.


----------



## Noble1

Its been mentioned before, but if you want to save your marriage, you will have to expose the affair (EA or PA doesn't matter) as far and as wide as possible.

Meaning friends, family, etc. Affairs are fun and exciting because there is an element of danger to it, etc. (eg. bad boys). Once the affair is exposed, its no longer fun....rather is the WS just plain cheating and being selfish.

Shine the light on the affair and see what happens....only if you want to try to save things.

Good luck.


----------



## Will_Kane

Cowboy2 said:


> OM: My god i wish i could see you in AND out of your bikini. I love your body. I've been thinking about you constantly for some reason today. I want to make l**e to you, I miss being inside of you. *i'm very happy that we have a means of communication now, no matter how distant it feels. You are wonderful*. Xoxoxoxo
> 
> W: I've been thinking of you all day too, but that's not unusual for me. *I really wanted to see you, but figured you probably didn't have the car to come out my way*. * I WILL need to see you very soon. I imagine us together*. On a daily basis, in OUR home, in our bed, doing meaningless tasks together, or fun stuff with the kids. *I don't want it to just be fantasy-*I think it's a huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband. I don't know if it's right or wrong or even realistic to *imagine* a life with you. But I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off or stop communicating with you. I feel like I would die inside if I wasn't somehow "near" you. I mean, I've tried and failed 3 times, and I can't go 2 weeks *without you*, *without talking to you*. I crumble!! Okay. Enough of that. How are you? I'm going to admit I worry about you not working - you're not depressed are you? What's going on inside your smart, beautiful brain? I miss getting to talk to you about real stuff, ya know? You don't have to tell me any of this, just tell me to mind my own, if you need to.
> 
> When she talks about not being "near" him I told her she needed to stop being in contact after I found those texts with "I love you's" in them. Obviously they didn't stop, just went to emailing.


My opinion is that it has not gone physical yet. But I don't rule it out. But in my opinion, having read a lot of these threads, it is too tame, too much talk of "imagination" and "wanting to be together" and not any definitive talk of actually being together recently.

Also in my opinion they may have had a physical affair more recently than 20 years ago, but who knows, as already was mentioned, cheating with high-school exes makes people mentally and emotionally revert back to their teenage years and think even more naively than most of us remember thinking even as teenagers (we'll live together happily ever after in a big house with lots of money and have sex all day and all night and neither of us will have to ever work).

If she hasn't gone physical yet, she is ready and willing. If only he had a car.

Where do you stand with her now? Is she telling you how sorry she is and how it was a mistake and she will cut him off completely? Did you post that you had caught her texting, she swore to stop, and then after that you caught her emailing him?


----------



## verpin zal

"The Mind-Boggling Bikini - It Came From 20 Years Ago" in theaters near you. The must see horror of the year.

She states her desire for a life with him in his bed, clearly. He does the same about her with "you are my sex life".

She wants a new house with him, he wants sex.. Let 'em have it.

Give her the papers.


----------



## DoveEnigma13

You have to get angry about it. Not hurt. My problem was I was so blinded by the pain that I didn't have room for hate and anger. Don't show it to her, or the OM if you have contact.

When she says she still wants you (to be plan B) you have to let the anger consume you. Go to the dark side and let the hate flow through you like the emperor would say. That's what gave me the courage to not waver.


----------



## LongWalk

"You are my sex life." Doesn't sound like an EA to me. He is telling your wife that she is no longer sharing his penis with his GF. Maybe he still gives her a peck on the cheek before he goes to work in morning... umm, wait a minute



> I'm going to admit I worry about you not working - you're not depressed are you? *What's going on inside your smart, beautiful brain?* I miss getting to talk to you about real stuff, ya know? You don't have to tell me any of this, just tell me to mind my own, if you need to.


Maybe this guy who is super smart was depressed about being unemployed. His GF was not happy that she had to carry his lazy asß, paying all the bills. Instead of hunting for jobs he spent time on FB, trying to get people to flatter him. Sadly he couldn't get enough, so he did people-you-might-know research on people from the past who don't know about his failures.

Suddenly he thought of your wife. And few clicks later he was telling her how she still looked just like the hot young chick who had sex in the car with him on Friday night. She ate it up. It made her feel young.

Since he don't work his GF will very like want to boot his arse out the door.

You should tell OM's GF what is going down. File for divorce. Stop talking to your wife about anything other than your kids and the divorce. You should cut off her money, phone and anything else to make her life inconvenient. If she gets angry about it, just say:



> Babe, he doesn't have a job, you're going to have to get used to living without money. I am just helping you experience for the next stage of your life.


----------



## aug

Cowboy2 said:


> W: I've been thinking of you all day too, but that's not unusual for me. I really wanted to see you, but figured you probably didn't have the car to come out my way. I WILL need to see you very soon. I imagine us together. On a daily basis, in OUR home, in our bed, doing meaningless tasks together, or fun stuff with the kids. I don't want it to just be fantasy-*I think it's a huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband.* I don't know if it's right or wrong or even realistic to imagine a life with you. But I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off or stop communicating with you. I feel like I would die inside if I wasn't somehow "near" you. I mean, I've tried and failed 3 times, and I can't go 2 weeks without you, without talking to you. I crumble!! Okay. Enough of that. How are you? I'm going to admit I worry about you not working - you're not depressed are you? What's going on inside your smart, beautiful brain? I miss getting to talk to you about real stuff, ya know? You don't have to tell me any of this, just tell me to mind my own, if you need to.



The part in bold is the key to your marriage breakdown. She has no intention of being with you. And now you know.

Even if she says she will recommit to you, you can never know if she meant it or not. Especially with her ability to deceive and her ability to ignore 20 years of marriage.

She's willing to throw away 20 years of marriage for the OM (other man).

This has got to hurt you. I think you need to move on to find a different woman with a better character.


----------



## verpin zal

DoveEnigma13 said:


> You have to get angry about it. Not hurt. My problem was I was so blinded by the pain that I didn't have room for hate and anger. Don't show it to her, or the OM if you have contact.
> 
> When she says she still wants you (to be plan B) you have to let the anger consume you. Go to the dark side and let the hate flow through you like the emperor would say. That's what gave me the courage to not waver.


Now there's an experienced Force user. OP, you can always go and see his thread about his story. His latest post can give you some more help.


----------



## weightlifter

This is poster Hard to Detach all over again!

Im reading EA ATM but PA is imminent and I mean like within two weeks.

GPS her car NOW NOW NOW. Radio Shack Ezoom. NOW. If you use the email she will be on to you being on to her email and you will need alternate intel source NOW unless you truly want D now.

The below is my standard post. Ignore it if you are headed straight to D.

VARs and evidence

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
Rclawson came up with how to get the PW on an ipad
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...eling-my-wife-cheating-me-16.html#post4692714

A poster named Stigmatizer came up with this nice app that appears to give the caller name for iphones:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...y-creepy-happening-my-home-7.html#post4769890

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/4854930-post220.html
Hi rosie!

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords


----------



## jnj express

she couldn't make it with him 20 yrs ago---he doesn't have a car or job now---is not married to the woman he has kids with---he is basically a bum---he probably is on welfare, and lives at home with his parents---if not then his GF supports him

The guy is human waste---tell your wife to get the he*l out and go live with him---lets see exactly how long she handles having to take care of her own kids, and also to take care of him and his kids

Your wife is in Disneyland---and if you wanna keep this mge--its time to land on her with both feet hard

1st thing you do --is to tell her to get out---next do not do the 180---just go dark on her---whether she had sex or not---she dissed you to him, in every way shape and form---and since she thinks so little of you---tell her, since she doesn't think enuff of you, to be worthy of her---she can leave, right now, and go find herself someone she thinks is worthy of her cheating a*s

Do not be nice to her AT ALL---no abuse---just go DARK----ignore her----but make sure she understands, she is now responsible for half of each and every bill this mge/household has to pay each month---including car/insurances/mtg/food/utilities/necessities of life

Go to the bank and move all the marital finances to an acct with only your name on it---and cancel all her credit cards----GIVE HER A TASTE OF REALITY

Your problem now is no matter what she says to cover her a*s---you know that she has dissed you very badly, and she thinks nothing of doing so----that is gonna be tuff for you to deal with---if she has been physical with him lately, that just adds fuel to the fire

You DO NOT NEED ANYTHING MORE THAN THOSE E-MAILS ---to tell her since she thinks so little of you, and has no trouble saying so to others---SHE OBVIOUSLY DOES NOT WANNA BE MARRIED TO YOU---and since that is the case---tell her to leave

You will get a response ---if she shows heavy remorse and wants to do ALL the heavy lifting, and make it right---you can THINK about R---is she refuses to go NC and give him up, or goes underground---then its time to DELETE her from your life


----------



## jack.c

yep! you need to proove the reason for your nick.......
COWBOYS ARENT DOORMANT!


----------



## InlandTXMM

Cowboy2 said:


> Okay, here are the emails, let me know. Looks bad, makes my heart hurt. I think she must have told him that she went and bought a bikini recently. My W said he must have been referring to a long time ago when they were together but come on, that's so long ago! Who remembers that stuff from 20 years ago!!
> 
> OM: My god i wish i could see you in AND out of your bikini. I love your body. I've been thinking about you constantly for some reason today. I want to make l**e to you, I miss being inside of you. i'm very happy that we have a means of communication now, no matter how distant it feels. You are wonderful. Xoxoxoxo
> 
> W: I've been thinking of you all day too, but that's not unusual for me. I really wanted to see you, but figured you probably didn't have the car to come out my way. I WILL need to see you very soon. I imagine us together. On a daily basis, in OUR home, in our bed, doing meaningless tasks together, or fun stuff with the kids. I don't want it to just be fantasy-I think it's a huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband. I don't know if it's right or wrong or even realistic to imagine a life with you. But I know I'm not anywhere near ready to cut you off or stop communicating with you. I feel like I would die inside if I wasn't somehow "near" you. I mean, I've tried and failed 3 times, and I can't go 2 weeks without you, without talking to you. I crumble!! Okay. Enough of that. How are you? I'm going to admit I worry about you not working - you're not depressed are you? What's going on inside your smart, beautiful brain? I miss getting to talk to you about real stuff, ya know? You don't have to tell me any of this, just tell me to mind my own, if you need to.
> 
> When she talks about not being "near" him I told her she needed to stop being in contact after I found those texts with "I love you's" in them. Obviously they didn't stop, just went to emailing.


Man, if I had to read that kind of thing from my wife...

Cowboy, hang in there, my man. You didn't do anything to turn her into this.

Find your rage.


----------



## remorseful strayer

I would be cautious about posting anyone on cheaterville, unless they are dirt poor.

My affair partner, the one who outed me, when we broke up, and the one who aggressively pursued an affair, promising she only wanted an affair, not a marriage, posted me on cheaterville. 

Her husband believes her spin that we just met for coffee. That's sad, but I would never dream of hurting her by posting her on cheaterville. 

One call from my attorney, and the name was removed. They did not want to spend money on a looooooong and pricey court battle. 

Also, given as I had many many written emails, in which she aggressively suggested sex and the affair, while I for a very long time declined the offer, I could also sue her, and she may or may not lose, but I could drag her through court for years asking for delays and rescheduling things, until she was destitute. 

So unless you have a lot of money to burn, and the OM is very poor. Be cautious about posting on Cheaterville. If you do, ensure all the things you say are true. And, they may not be.

Also stay calm and don't get into a physical fight. You may end up in jail, if you hurt him, or worse, unless he is very wimpy, he may hurt you, too, in retaliation. And then when he screams self defense, you could still end up in jail. 

In most US states, it is not a crime to have an affair. It is a crime to hurt someone. It is not a crime to hurt someone in SELF DEFENSE. 

Only a few states consider infidelity a crime, and they almost never file charges and the sentence if any is a fine or something equal to a slap on the wrist.


----------



## BK23

remorseful strayer said:


> I would be cautious about posting anyone on cheaterville, unless they are dirt poor.
> 
> My affair partner, the one who outed me, when we broke up, and the one who aggressively pursued an affair, promising she only wanted an affair, not a marriage, posted me on cheaterville.
> 
> Her husband believes her spin that we just met for coffee. That's sad, but I would never dream of hurting her by posting her on cheaterville.
> 
> One call from my attorney, and the name was removed. They did not want to spend money on a looooooong and pricey court battle.
> 
> Also, given as I had many many written emails, in which she aggressively suggested sex and the affair, while I for a very long time declined the offer, I could also sue her, and she may or may not lose, but I could drag her through court for years asking for delays and rescheduling things, until she was destitute.
> 
> So unless you have a lot of money to burn, and the OM is very poor. Be cautious about posting on Cheaterville. If you do, ensure all the things you say are true. And, they may not be.
> 
> Also stay calm and don't get into a physical fight. You may end up in jail, if you hurt him, or worse, unless he is very wimpy, he may hurt you, too, in retaliation. And then when he screams self defense, you could still end up in jail.
> 
> In most US states, it is not a crime to have an affair. It is a crime to hurt someone. It is not a crime to hurt someone in SELF DEFENSE.
> 
> Only a few states consider infidelity a crime, and they almost never file charges and the sentence if any is a fine or something equal to a slap on the wrist.


This is correct, to an extent. 

I wouldn't worry that much about getting sued over cheaterville as long as you're in the U.S--Europe is a different story. Defamation suits are a tough sell in the U.S. in that the truth is an absolute defense. Thus, it shouldn't actually be that expensive to get a suit over a cheaterville post thrown out in the preliminary stages.


----------



## remorseful strayer

BK23 said:


> This is correct, to an extent.
> 
> I wouldn't worry that much about getting sued over cheaterville as long as you're in the U.S--Europe is a different story. Defamation suits are a tough sell in the U.S. in that the truth is an absolute defense. Thus, it shouldn't actually be that expensive to get a suit over a cheaterville post thrown out in the preliminary stages.


It depends on if the information is true in it's entirety. 

If you can prove it's not. Oops! In my case, it was not true in it's entirety and included some lies. Lies I could prove. Oops!

Most angry people fail to get their facts, or they simply believe what a spouse tells them, because they want to. 

As for the ease of getting a suit thrown out. It depends on which law firm you use, and how skilled they are at asking for delay after costly delay in order to drag things out. 

Some are very skilled at that type of thing. Rescheduling involves paperwork and attorneys charge by the hour for defamation or libel suits.


----------



## larry.gray

Yep, the US actually has freedom of speech. You can be counter-sued in a defamation suit. If you're telling the truth, and they sue you, you can win a judgement against them. 

I know a guy that won over $12K that way. A cop was sleeping with his wife, then the cop tried to intimidate him. The guy was fired for the crap he pulled. He settled out of court with the department and won't say what he got out of the department. After being fired the exOM tried suing, and the guy I know got all of his legal bills paid for defending the defamation suit.

Yes, it drug out for 2 years and never went to court. After knowing he would lose, the cop tried to stretch it out. That only cost him MUCH more. When the case was dropped, the judge ordered the ex cop to pay T's legal bills.


----------



## remorseful strayer

Larry:

It's rare for the courts to order a solo plaintiff to pay court costs. 

They may do this with very large firms with deep pockets, or if the suit was discovered to be totally frivolous, after the fact. 

Remember, the only defense for defamation or libel is the WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. If lies are included that could be considered malicious intent.

My affair partner never told her husband the truth and she included lies and false accusations in her cheaterville post. 

What makes you so sure this woman is not also lying to her husband or distorting facts for self protection, as my OW did.

I did discuss having the this woman pay my legal fees if the courts decided in my favor due to the false allegations and gross distortions and the falsehoods. He said it was remotely possible but difficult to recoup court costs from a solo defendant. 

It's a gamble. Also, 12K isn't really a whole heck of a lot of money, and to some it might be worth the gamble, even if they had to pay court or attorney fees, just to put the truth on the record and to agitate the person. 

Posting someone on Cheaterville is risky. But go ahead have a party, maybe you will be one of the lucky ones, who doesn't lose an ensuing law suit, or whose AP or AP's wife or husband, told the truth and nothing but the truth. 





larry.gray said:


> Yep, the US actually has freedom of speech. You can be counter-sued in a defamation suit. If you're telling the truth, and they sue you, you can win a judgement against them.
> 
> I know a guy that won over $12K that way. A cop was sleeping with his wife, then the cop tried to intimidate him. The guy was fired for the crap he pulled. He settled out of court with the department and won't say what he got out of the department. After being fired the exOM tried suing, and the guy I know got all of his legal bills paid for defending the defamation suit.
> 
> Yes, it drug out for 2 years and never went to court. After knowing he would lose, the cop tried to stretch it out. That only cost him MUCH more. When the case was dropped, the judge ordered the ex cop to pay T's legal bills.


----------



## BK23

remorseful strayer said:


> Larry:
> 
> It's rare for the courts to order a solo plaintiff to pay court costs.
> 
> They may do this with very large firms with deep pockets, or if the suit was discovered to be totally frivolous, after the fact.
> 
> Remember, the only defense for defamation or libel is the WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. If lies are included that could be considered malicious intent.
> 
> My affair partner never told her husband the truth and she included lies and false accusations in her cheaterville post.
> 
> What makes you so sure this woman is not also lying to her husband or distorting facts for self protection, as my OW did.
> 
> I did discuss having the this woman pay my legal fees if the courts decided in my favor due to the false allegations and gross distortions and the falsehoods. He said it was remotely possible but difficult to recoup court costs from a solo defendant.
> 
> It's a gamble. Also, 12K isn't really a whole heck of a lot of money, and to some it might be worth the gamble, even if they had to pay court or attorney fees, just to put the truth on the record and to agitate the person.
> 
> Posting someone on Cheaterville is risky. But go ahead have a party, maybe you will be one of the lucky ones, who doesn't lose an ensuing law suit, or whose AP or AP's wife or husband, told the truth and nothing but the truth.


Sigh. Pretty decent arm-chair lawyering. When do you sit for the bar?

Bottom line--you tell the truth, you're fine.


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## tom67

BK23 said:


> Sigh. Pretty decent arm-chair lawyering. When do you sit for the bar?
> 
> Bottom line--you tell the truth, you're fine.


:iagree:
Cowboy I hope you contact the gf soon.
Those emails are some pretty deep sh!t stay strong and don't let her bs you.
Please stay cool but firm I know easier said than done.


----------



## The Middleman

Plaintiff's lawyers are usually bullsh1t artists who thrive on pre-trial intimation but are scared sh1tless of going to trial because they usually loose (especially these cases) in court. So if you are telling the truth and and you can prove it, just ignore them and say "I want to go to trial"; 9 times out of 10 they back away ... unless the plaintiff has a lot of money and is willing to pay his shark by the hour.

Never be afraid to confront, challenge, defend yourself or get revenge. Being afraid is how a cheating spouse and their affair partners get "get over" on the betrayed in the first place. This post affair intimidation by the wayward is just a continuation of the intentional humiliation!


----------



## remorseful strayer

BK23 said:


> Sigh. Pretty decent arm-chair lawyering. When do you sit for the bar?
> 
> Bottom line--you tell the truth, you're fine.


LOL. Armchair Lawyer. 

Did you actually read the postings? This is straight from the lawyers mouth, not mine. 

But, it's a free country and anyone can sue anyone. 

I would suggest that someone talk to a lawyer prior to engaging in any possibly actionable situations. And, make sure they tell the truth to the lawyer. 

Because a lawyer can't help a person who is lying to the lawyer. 

Just the facts Ma'am.

Taking risky actions suggested on a message board, without due consultation is well..Risky.


----------



## workindad

OP do not let fear make decisions for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Cheaterville has been effective for several on TAM. I never read of negative impact. Obviously, a Cheaterville post which entirely factual cannot lead to a legal disaster.

Also the Cheaterville posts should be short and factual. No emotional stuff, no insults.

Cowboy,

You have gotten good advice. Go dark on your wife. Don't talk to her about anything but your children and the divorce.

If she is extremely remorseful, you can consider reconciliation but you must wait until you know she is not acting.

If you expose to OM's girlfriend, she ought to kick him out. If you WW is dumb she many go to OM since they are both rejects. If shacks up with him after exposure, then she will pay a high price for the nostalgia and flattery.

Your wife is not really super in love with guy. She is in love with the fantasy of him and the thrill of illicit sex. She may not love you either. She sounds like a shallow pool of water.

You need to make her feel alive, as in her life is going down the tubes and you are the hand back into boat. She must have an existential jolt. If you reconcile with her in a few weeks time, preferably when she believes there is no hope, you should expect her to grateful and loving.

If she doesn't cry with joy that you take her back, why would you want her. Can you read her?


----------



## Cowboy2

LongWalk said:


> If she is extremely remorseful, you can consider reconciliation but you must wait until you know she is not acting.
> 
> Your wife is not really super in love with guy. She is in love with the fantasy of him and the thrill of illicit sex. She may not love you either. She sounds like a shallow pool of water.
> 
> If she doesn't cry with joy that you take her back, why would you want her. Can you read her?


I have started the 180 and will be seeing an attorney tomorrow.

My W does not seem remorseful AT ALL! She only seems remorseful that she got caught. I have not spoken to her or confronted her any more since posting. I will be working to gather more evidence. So far all she has done is say how she was unhappy in the marriage and toss that right at me. It's like she is trying to make it my fault!!

There have been many "I love you's" back and forth that seem really emotional. We are talking the kind of emotion I havent' seen from her in 10 years. What's the deal?!?! Seeing these words hurts deeply. I also just don't understand it!! How can anyone who is married with children fall into something like this? And so quickly? I mean we had issues in our marriage but nothing out of the ordinary that I know of. I don't get it!!

I am confused and don't know what to do other than do the 180 and get legal advice right now. What i can't see coming back from is someone that is suppossed to be on my side and have my back lying right to my face to be with another man. it is unbelievable!

I will figure out a way to let the OM's GF know.


----------



## Cowboy2

workindad said:


> OP do not let fear make decisions for you.


Fear of what? Losing my family? Losing my kids? Of course this is something I fear! Even though it was not my decision to have the actions to have an affair i still fear it.

Does it even matter if its a PA? The level of emotion I have seen hurts as much anyway.


----------



## badmemory

LongWalk said:


> You need to make her feel alive, as in her life is going down the tubes and you are the hand back into boat. She must have an existential jolt. If you reconcile with her in a few weeks time, preferably when she believes there is no hope, you should expect her to grateful and loving.


:iagree: Well said.


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## tom67

Cowboy2 said:


> I have started the 180 and will be seeing an attorney tomorrow.
> 
> My W does not seem remorseful AT ALL! She only seems remorseful that she got caught. I have not spoken to her or confronted her any more since posting. I will be working to gather more evidence. So far all she has done is say how she was unhappy in the marriage and toss that right at me. It's like she is trying to make it my fault!!
> 
> There have been many "I love you's" back and forth that seem really emotional. We are talking the kind of emotion I havent' seen from her in 10 years. What's the deal?!?! Seeing these words hurts deeply. I also just don't understand it!! How can anyone who is married with children fall into something like this? And so quickly? I mean we had issues in our marriage but nothing out of the ordinary that I know of. I don't get it!!
> 
> I am confused and don't know what to do other than do the 180 and get legal advice right now. What i can't see coming back from is someone that is suppossed to be on my side and have my back lying right to my face to be with another man. it is unbelievable!
> 
> I will figure out a way to let the OM's GF know.


After you let om gf know let her family know she is giving up her family for an unemployed loser that preys on married women.

Open a bank acct. in your name only take out half so she doesn't clean you out!
Cancel credit cards she has jointly also give her the new reality.


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## remorseful strayer

Cowboy2 said:


> Fear of what? Losing my family? Losing my kids? Of course this is something I fear! Even though it was not my decision to have the actions to have an affair i still fear it.
> 
> Does it even matter if its a PA? The level of emotion I have seen hurts as much anyway.


It's normal to be somewhat fearful. Fearful of the unknown.

IMO, slow down. Decide what you want to do. Do you want to save the relationship or let it go. 

Either choice is okay, if you make it with a clear head and fully informed. 

Your emotions are running high. That's normal. 

Can you get some individual counseling to help you sort things out. 

Doing the 180 may or may not work. 

If you do that, she may feel even more justified. 

Not everyone is afraid of being alone. Your girlfriend might feel fine about being out on her own. 

Everyone is different. Slow down.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Cowboy2 said:


> Fear of what? Losing my family? Losing my kids? Of course this is something I fear! Even though it was not my decision to have the actions to have an affair i still fear it.
> 
> Does it even matter if its a PA? The level of emotion I have seen hurts as much anyway.


It's a b!tch. Sorry you are facing this. The unimaginable happens to many of us.

The comment about fear is to help you direct your emotions into a stronger place. Anger will get you better results than fear. Do not us anger to do something stupid. If you can avoid excessive yelling, drinking, rage, anything that can be used against you, then I would say ANGER is healthy.

I had outbursts of anger that made my first few days worse.

Controlled anger will drive you to make the tough decisions that your WW must face. You have to give her consequences (like filing for a D) in order to get her out of the "fog."

Fear will make you afraid to push anything because it tends to paralyze us.

After these first few weeks/months go past, you will start facing resentment. The fear will leave as you realize that these things are very unfair, and you can do better.

Sorry Cowboy. I have been in your boots. Keep us posted.


----------



## ironman

Cowboy2 said:


> Fear of what? Losing my family? Losing my kids? Of course this is something I fear! Even though it was not my decision to have the actions to have an affair i still fear it.
> 
> Does it even matter if its a PA? The level of emotion I have seen hurts as much anyway.


Forget fear. You need to get angry! You need to feel and SHOW YOUR WIFE that you will not tolerate this disrespect she is all but throwing in your face. Show her that her marriage is over ... immediately. Give her her friggin' freedom that she's writing so romantically about. Kick her ass to the curb!

PS: What I just wrote is what is required to even have a small chance at saving your marriage. It's counter-intuitive .. but she and you need it. You need to DEMAND RESPECT.


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## Chaparral

Your wife is in shock too. Slow down, many here have turned things around in a short time when the wayward spouse had time to really think about what they are doing.

Good luck and prayers


----------



## jnj express

I don't know if you really want to be with her, or not

Either way---you need to be hard line with her---she shows no remorse, and says this present mge is not good---then tell her point blank---get the he*l out

She doesn't get to send E-Mails professing love for another, right there in front of you, and rub your nose in it---saying mge is bad---some of that is on her---but nothing can be settled, while she moons for her lost love, and openly lets you know about it

You need to force her out---SHE HAS TO FACE REALITY---right now she is dissing you and rubbing it in your face---BUT-----she also is allowed to stay in her stable cushy environment---that MUST CHANGE

If she is gonna openly profess love for another---THEN SHE CAN LEAVE, and GO BE WITH HER LOVER

I promise you, once she sees, that this guy is a MONSTER LOSER---she will come crawling back

Its up to you, each day you do nothing, is just another day you spend LIVING IN MISERY---she is forcing you to spend day after day in an unhappy life, and forces the kids to be in a horrible environment----YOU NEED TO KICK HER OUT---


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## Will_Kane

Cowboy2 said:


> There have been many "I love you's" back and forth that seem really emotional. We are talking the kind of emotion I havent' seen from her in 10 years. What's the deal?!?! Seeing these words hurts deeply. I also just don't understand it!! *How can anyone who is married with children fall into something like this? And so quickly?* I mean we had issues in our marriage but nothing out of the ordinary that I know of. I don't get it!!


You are not alone. It has happened to many of us. And some of us have wound up reconciling.

Have you ever had a girlfriend who you were madly "in love" with (probably when you were in grade school or maybe high school) who, when you look back at it, you laugh at yourself and say, "how young and naïve I was, I couldn't have loved her, I didn't really even know her"?

Well, as you can see, some cheaters, many in fact, revert back to that teenage high school, or even grade school, mentality. When they come to their senses (if they do, and that's a big IF), they do not look back and laugh but rather look back and cry, because of all of the pain they caused for their foolish actions.

How it will turn out with your wife, it is too soon to know. But from what I've seen, it usually takes a good hard dose of reality - telling other man's wife (or girlfriend), packing up her stuff in hefty bags and leaving them in the front yard, or better yet dropping them off in other man's front yard, offering to drive her over to her soulmate's house, calling up Mr. SoulMate and telling him you've got your wife all packed up and ready to go, where does he want you to drop her off, her getting served with the divorce papers, telling her mom and dad and siblings what she's up to - before they start to realize that they were not really "in love" with other man, that they didn't really even know him, just like a naïve teenager.


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## Cowboy2

She still says it was not physical. Who knows....maybe it wasn't. Those emails and the incredible amount of love professed sure seems like it had to be physical. I have a female friend who divorced her husband 3 years ago due to an affair tell me that level of emotional attachment CAN'T happen without the physical part too. And this is coming from a female.

I am taking some time to process. I have seen an attorney and am having another free consultation early next week.

I don't know, this seems like a deal breaker to me. I guess i would want to hear if others feel this was a deal breaker for them. On one hand it is hard to see throwing away away so much, the marriage, the years together, the history, the kids in a family home. Rationally I know that my W chose these actions but emtionally if I end it and file for D if seems like i am the bad guy for ending it. Does that make sense?

I guess the other part that keeps me up at night is the trust part. To me trust is huge in a committed relationship. On several occassions my wife looked me in the eye and lied right to my face. Willingly and knowingly causing pain. Putting a knife into me while looking me in the eye. I don't want to sound like a total victim but the real question is why would I want to continue to share my life with someone who is capable of that? Not everyone is capable of that, right? Jeez I feel naive.


----------



## tom67

Get together with the om gf and compare notes.

Focus on the kids and you.


----------



## remorseful strayer

Your thoughts in the below post are totally normal. 

Please slow down. 

People have recovered from affairs. 

A person, particularly women can THINK they are in love with someone, even though they never had sex. 

Women do not think like men. 

There are studies that show that people who divorce for any reason, including an affair, are happier five years down the road, if they stay together than are those who divorce.

So you can't trust your wife 100 percent. The real issue is that most people should never trust anyone 100 percent. People are human and people sometimes fall into stupid situations. 

Going forward, if you choose to stay, and it is a choice, you will now know that you can trust but need to verify. 





Cowboy2 said:


> She still says it was not physical. Who knows....maybe it wasn't. Those emails and the incredible amount of love professed sure seems like it had to be physical. I have a female friend who divorced her husband 3 years ago due to an affair tell me that level of emotional attachment CAN'T happen without the physical part too. And this is coming from a female.
> 
> I am taking some time to process. I have seen an attorney and am having another free consultation early next week.
> 
> I don't know, this seems like a deal breaker to me. I guess i would want to hear if others feel this was a deal breaker for them. On one hand it is hard to see throwing away away so much, the marriage, the years together, the history, the kids in a family home. Rationally I know that my W chose these actions but emtionally if I end it and file for D if seems like i am the bad guy for ending it. Does that make sense?
> 
> I guess the other part that keeps me up at night is the trust part. To me trust is huge in a committed relationship. On several occassions my wife looked me in the eye and lied right to my face. Willingly and knowingly causing pain. Putting a knife into me while looking me in the eye. I don't want to sound like a total victim but the real question is why would I want to continue to share my life with someone who is capable of that? Not everyone is capable of that, right? Jeez I feel naive.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Cowboy2 said:


> Rationally I know that my W chose these actions but emtionally if I end it and file for D if seems like i am the bad guy for ending it. Does that make sense?


I don't think anyone thinks you'd be the bad guy for divorcing your cheating wife. I think that would actually be expected of you.


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## Dyokemm

Cowboy,

Expose the A to POS's gf ASAP.

Blow this POS out of the water...he will most likely throw your WW under the bus in a desperate attempt to save his own a**.

If you doubt this, check out Esco's thread ongoing right now as well. The POS in his case is totally throwing Esco's WW under the bus to his SO.

His gf will become a potential source of more info about what's been going on...she will dig things out of POS on her end and hopefully share these tidbits of info with you.

If you combine informing his gf with exposing her A to both of your families and your close friends, this will blow up Fantasy Land for your WW big time, and this is a MUST if you are going to have any chance of saving your M.


----------



## Iver

What is going on here is pretty much grounds for a divorce. I think if children weren't involved it would be a no-brainer. 

But it obviously isn't that simple. I'd start with full disclosure to her family and friends and the OM's girlfriend. MC is a good start as well...if you haven't decided to call it quits. If you have no one, and I mean no one, will blame you based on those emails.

How old are your children? This could get ugly if the OM is in the picture in some way - I'd be clear with her your boundaries regarding them.


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## Chaparral

Are you saying your wife doesn't want a divorce? I thought she was acting like the marriage was over and blaming you.


----------



## LongWalk

Given the level of passion and commitment expressed in the emails, they would have had the determination and desire to drive 20 minutes to consummate their renewed love.

Even if neither of them had a car they could have taken a bus, cycled or run to hook up. Stupid horny lovers have as much sex as possible.

POSOM's girlfriend is lucky. All she has to do is kick him out. If she does, where will he go? Make sure your wife does not have money to pay a deposit on an apartment. He is smart and beautiful. He will find a rat hole, 

If your wife is dumb, she may move in with him.

Whether you ever take your wife back depends on you. Don't talk to her about anything but your kids

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## still numb

Cowboy, your story (your wife's story) is SO much like mine.

Hers was only emotional mainly because there was 3000 miles between them. It went on for over two years before I found out.

I now firmly believe that ANYONE is capable of lying and cheating. My wife was the proverbial "last one anyone would suspect".

The emotional attachment is VERY strong, with or without the physical, in her mind. She's created this perfect fantasy in her mind with the "perfect" man. 

The "fog" you hear talked about on TAM is very real, and very powerful. She CAN come out of it, but it won't be easy.

FWIW, my wife and I have worked hard over the last year to overcome her EA and we are better than ever now.

Like remorseful said, slow down, everything you are feeling, i felt and dozens of others here have felt, and realize that if you WANT to save your marriage it is possible.

Utilize this great resource that is TAM and you WILL survive this and most likely be a stronger man when all is said and done.

It all seems crazy right now, but so many of us have been where you are now and we can help you get to the other side.




Cowboy2 said:


> She still says it was not physical. Who knows....maybe it wasn't. Those emails and the incredible amount of love professed sure seems like it had to be physical. I have a female friend who divorced her husband 3 years ago due to an affair tell me that level of emotional attachment CAN'T happen without the physical part too. And this is coming from a female.
> 
> I am taking some time to process. I have seen an attorney and am having another free consultation early next week.
> 
> I don't know, this seems like a deal breaker to me. I guess i would want to hear if others feel this was a deal breaker for them. On one hand it is hard to see throwing away away so much, the marriage, the years together, the history, the kids in a family home. Rationally I know that my W chose these actions but emtionally if I end it and file for D if seems like i am the bad guy for ending it. Does that make sense?
> 
> I guess the other part that keeps me up at night is the trust part. To me trust is huge in a committed relationship. On several occassions my wife looked me in the eye and lied right to my face. Willingly and knowingly causing pain. Putting a knife into me while looking me in the eye. I don't want to sound like a total victim but the real question is why would I want to continue to share my life with someone who is capable of that? Not everyone is capable of that, right? Jeez I feel naive.


----------



## tom67

Cowboy for now assume anything she tells you is a lie. The fact that om is only 15 minutes away they have been intimate. Let us know when you contact the ow. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

Prenup.
Polygraph.


----------



## azteca1986

Cowboy2 said:


> I don't know, this seems like a deal breaker to me. I guess i would want to hear if others feel this was a deal breaker for them. On one hand it is hard to see throwing away away so much, the marriage, the years together, the history, the kids in a family home. Rationally I know that my W chose these actions but emtionally if I end it and file for D if seems like i am the bad guy for ending it. Does that make sense?


A lot of BS's feel this way. It depends on the individual. Some people can build a new marriage after the betrayal of infidelity. Some can't. If you can't, you can't.

Do talk to another lawyer. You don't have to a make any firm decision right now. 



> I guess the other part that keeps me up at night is the trust part. To me trust is huge in a committed relationship. On several occassions my wife looked me in the eye and lied right to my face. Willingly and knowingly causing pain. Putting a knife into me while looking me in the eye. I don't want to sound like a total victim but the real question is why would I want to continue to share my life with someone who is capable of that? Not everyone is capable of that, right? Jeez I feel naive.


You are not naive. For many it is the lies and deceit that they can never recover from. If you are like that, you are not alone.

How is your wife reacting? Is she showing guilt (sorry and embarrassed she was caught) or remorse (sorry for what she is putting YOU through)?


----------



## Cowboy2

I can only assume there is more that I don't know about. From what I have read on here it is difficult at best to get the whole truth.

I don't know if I want to be with her anymore knowing what she did and what she is capable of. Plus I have read enough on here that the only way it can really work is if the WS is truly remorseful. Maybe my wife will be at some point but she sure doesn't seem like it now. 

The attitude is much more of she wasn't happy in the marriage therefore she is justified in going outside the marriage. It sort of goes with her overall victim mentality where nothing is really her fault and even though she is unhappy in a situation she does not do anything about it to change the situation. Work, physical, etc. 

It seems like a real blame shift game in my opinion.


----------



## carmen ohio

Cowboy2 said:


> She still says it was not physical. Who knows....maybe it wasn't. Those emails and the incredible amount of love professed sure seems like it had to be physical. I have a female friend who divorced her husband 3 years ago due to an affair tell me that level of emotional attachment CAN'T happen without the physical part too. And this is coming from a female.
> 
> I am taking some time to process. I have seen an attorney and am having another free consultation early next week.
> 
> I don't know, this seems like a deal breaker to me. I guess i would want to hear if others feel this was a deal breaker for them. On one hand *it is hard to see throwing away away so much, the marriage, the years together, the history, the kids in a family home. Rationally I know that my W chose these actions but emtionally if I end it and file for D if seems like i am the bad guy for ending it.* Does that make sense?
> 
> I guess the other part that keeps me up at night is the trust part. To me trust is huge in a committed relationship. On several occassions my wife looked me in the eye and lied right to my face. Willingly and knowingly causing pain. Putting a knife into me while looking me in the eye. I don't want to sound like a total victim but the real question is *why would I want to continue to share my life with someone who is capable of that? Not everyone is capable of that, right?* Jeez I feel naive.


Dear Cowboy2,

Whether they have had sex or not, your wife is deeply involved in an affair with another man. Whatever you decide to do about this, she has already destroyed the marriage you had, made a mockery of your years together and undermined your children's future. Thus, if you decide to divorce her, you won't throwing anything away. You will simply be ending your legal relationship with a woman who has already thrown your marriage and her family away by having replaced you with another man.

If you don't divorce her, you will not only be continuing to share your life with someone who is _capable_ of betraying you, you will be continuing to share your life with someone who _has _betrayed and is _still _betraying you.

Forgive me if this sounds like semantics but how you speak about her actions and your response matter because it reflects your mental process. Right now, you seem to be struggling with whether her actions justify your filing for divorce. They do. You also seem to be considering staying with an unfaithful and unremorseful wife. You shouldn't.

If you do what you believe is best for yourself and your children, you will have no reason to second guess yourself or apologize to anyone.


----------



## azteca1986

Cowboy2 said:


> I can only assume there is more that I don't know about. From what I have read on here it is difficult at best to get the whole truth.


Every single WS 'trickle truths'. Don't be surprised if there's more to come (there is). It's highly, highly unlikely that with her AP 20mins away that they didn't meet. She'll eventually say "It was just a kiss", which is affair speak for having sex. It happens time and again here.



> I don't know if I want to be with her anymore knowing what she did and what she is capable of. Plus I have read enough on here that the only way it can really work is if the WS is truly remorseful. Maybe my wife will be at some point but she sure doesn't seem like it now.


DO NOT tell her you forgive her, until you know what happened. Understand the difference between guilt and remorse.



> The attitude is much more of she wasn't happy in the marriage therefore she is justified in going outside the marriage. *It sort of goes with her overall victim mentality where nothing is really her fault *and even though she is unhappy in a situation she does not do anything about it to change the situation. Work, physical, etc.
> 
> It seems like a real blame shift game in my opinion.


It's a ridiculous position for a married woman to take. You are right 100%; victims are incapable of taking responsibility for their own bad choices. There's always someone else to blame, usually YOU.

Stand firm for you and your children.


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## TRy

Cowboy2 said:


> The attitude is much more of she wasn't happy in the marriage therefore she is justified in going outside the marriage.


 If that is what she is saying, then she is a cheater at heart. She is telling you that she is a cheater that will lie and cheat behind your back without remorse whenever she feels unhappy. She does not understand marraige or commitment. She is not good marraige material.


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## BetrayedDad

Cowboy2 said:


> I guess the other part that keeps me up at night is the trust part. To me trust is huge in a committed relationship. On several occassions my wife looked me in the eye and lied right to my face. Willingly and knowingly causing pain. Putting a knife into me while looking me in the eye. I don't want to sound like a total victim but the real question is why would I want to continue to share my life with someone who is capable of that? Not everyone is capable of that, right? Jeez I feel naive.


Let me tell you something my friend. Once they become THAT comfortable with lying, where they look you right in the eye and swear it's the truth, then they are too far gone. What you need to understand is the first lie is ALWAYS the hardest. After that it becomes easier and easier to the point that becomes almost natural. It's virtually impossible to trust someone after that because they will never have remorse for lying. It's too easy for them. They become desensitized. They have become broken.

And you are not niave in that regard. I am not capable of that level of deceit and alot of people aren't. Many people have a conscious still you just have to find a woman that does. These days it seems like there are more bad people than good but please remember it's like watching the news. You only even hear about the bad news. The good ones are definaitely out there, they just don't get the press because it's more fun talking about the bad eggs.

Just don't be niave about this. This HAS gone physical. There is no way these people are communicating that level of emotional commitment, living SO close, without manifesting it in a physical manner. You HAVE to assume it has, even if you never find the smoking gun, and base your decisions on whether you can live with that. She will never ADMIT it because she is too far gone and based on those emails she all but has.

Look at the title of your thread. TRUST your gut. You already know the answer, you're just having a hard time accepting it. It's a tough pill to swallow but swallow it you must. Good luck.


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## tom67

Start exposing to her and your family.

Bring this fantasy to the light of day that really takes the spark out of it.
She may or may not come out of the affair high but it's the only real shot you have jmo.


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## LongWalk

Reconciliation can be good but it will take two parties to bring it off. You cannot reconcile by yourself. Her emotional attachment to the OM is obscene. Until she sees him as the enemy of her marriage and hostile to her happiness, she is checked out.

Tell her that you love her and want her to happy. Therefore, she should leave and go to him. That does not mean you will be nice divorce. You will fight to protect yourself. You will not be her friend, just somebody you just used to know.

Okay, you have children, so she will be an ex.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Reconciliation can be good but it will take two parties to bring it off. You cannot reconcile by yourself. Her emotional attachment to the OM is obscene. Until she sees him as the enemy of her marriage and hostile to her happiness, she is checked out.
> 
> Tell her that you love her and want her to happy. Therefore, she should leave and go to him. That does not mean you will be nice divorce. You will fight to protect yourself. You will not be her friend, just somebody you just used to know.
> 
> Okay, you have children, so she will be an ex.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Yes use some reverse psychology.

Tell her you want her to be happy and you will drive her to the om place.
Pack her stuff in hefty bags and throw them in the car.

This should really throw her off and make her speechless.

At this point it calls for you to act detached cool and confident.

In her warped mind she will respect you.


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## Dyokemm

Cowboy,

Part of her lack of remorse and blameshifting (if not the majority of it) is because the Fantasy Land that her and POS are soulmates who will sail off into the sunset to live happily ever after is still very much alive in her mind.

Exposure of her crappy behavior to friends and family, and then (probably) seeing POS throw her under the bus after you expose to his gf and he tries to save his own worthless a**, will go a long way to blowing this dream world up.

Only then will she begin to see her life is about to come crashing down around her as a result of her own stupidity.

Until that happens, expect her to continue to blameshift and be unrepentant.


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## Tobyboy

Dyokemm said:


> Cowboy,
> 
> Part of her lack of remorse and blameshifting (if not the majority of it) is because the Fantasy Land that her and POS are soulmates who will sail off into the sunset to live happily ever after is still very much alive in her mind.
> 
> Exposure of her crappy behavior to friends and family, and then (probably) seeing POS throw her under the bus after you expose to his gf and he tries to save his own worthless a**, will go a long way to blowing this dream world up.
> 
> Only then will she begin to see her life is about to come crashing down around her as a result of her own stupidity.
> 
> Until that happens, expect her to continue to blameshift and be unrepentant.


This is true!! Exposure will kill the fantasy fog!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cowboy2

I have told his girlfriend. Needless to say she wasn't happy. We will see what kind of reaction that brings about soon enough.

I also found another message where my W told OM "I think about you every second of every day. You are the first thing I think about when I wake up and the last in my thoughts as I go to sleep at night".

Makes me want to puke. What kind of crap is this? Why would I consider going back to this?


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## tom67

Cowboy2 said:


> I have told his girlfriend. Needless to say she wasn't happy. We will see what kind of reaction that brings about soon enough.
> 
> I also found another message where my W told OM "I think about you every second of every day. You are the first thing I think about when I wake up and the last in my thoughts as I go to sleep at night".
> 
> Makes me want to puke. What kind of crap is this? Why would I consider going back to this?


Good job.
Now grab some popcorn because the show is about to begin.
She may wake up and realize this is going nowhere.


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## LongWalk

Cowboy2 said:


> I have told his girlfriend. Needless to say she wasn't happy. We will see what kind of reaction that brings about soon enough.
> 
> I also found another message where my W told OM "I think about you every second of every day. You are the first thing I think about when I wake up and the last in my thoughts as I go to sleep at night".
> 
> *Makes me want to puke. What kind of crap is this? Why would I consider going back to this?*


Your wife has regressed to become an infatuated teenager for a second time in her life. Her love object is a fantasy man. And for that reason who can drop her off at his place and tell her your life will go on without her.

She will sing a different song once this relationship collapses. No that it's in the open it will start to rot.

OM's GF, does she say he has done it before?


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## Will_Kane

Cowboy2 said:


> I have told his girlfriend. Needless to say she wasn't happy. We will see what kind of reaction that brings about soon enough.
> 
> I also found another message where my W told OM "*I think about you every second of every day*. You are the first thing I think about when I wake up and the last in my thoughts as I go to sleep at night".
> 
> Makes me want to puke. What kind of crap is this? Why would I consider going back to this?


If other man throws your wife under the bus, she may realize how foolish she has been.


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## still numb

Will_Kane said:


> *WHEN* other man throws your wife under the bus, she may realize how foolish she has been.


fify!


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## tom67

How are you holding up Cowboy?


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## dontbeused

Cowboy2 said:


> I have told his girlfriend. Needless to say she wasn't happy. We will see what kind of reaction that brings about soon enough.
> 
> I also found another message where my W told OM "I think about you every second of every day. You are the first thing I think about when I wake up and the last in my thoughts as I go to sleep at night".
> 
> Makes me want to puke. What kind of crap is this? Why would I consider going back to this?


you don't come back from this. no strong person does. Only the weak feel they have to hold on after this type of betrayal. Be strong, kick her to the curb.


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## weightlifter

tom67 said:


> Good job.
> Now grab some popcorn because the show is about to begin.
> She may wake up and realize this is going nowhere.


Look at hard to detach's wife. Look how she now knows how badly she fvcked up her life too late.


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## Cowboy2

dontbeused said:


> you don't come back from this. no strong person does. Only the weak feel they have to hold on after this type of betrayal. Be strong, kick her to the curb.


I agree with this. I always thought I was strong but after seeing these types of words to another man i don't see coming back from it. It isn't necessarily that she had the affair. It's that she spoke these words, allowed herself to get completely lost and infatuated with a total loser, and lied to me point blank about it.

The set of values she lives by are very different at the core. I could not lie straight to someone's face when they asked me point blank about something. I just can't. I'm not built that way. She apparently is. I never knew. It's like discovering another person. Makes me feel like I never really knew her and that is SCARY.

Turned out the OM had multiple affairs. I could tell how it made my wife feel to be one of a line of "special" people in his life. The guy is a total loser too. From what I found out I am kicking myself for ever feeling 2nd best. 

W shows little remorse. It's my fault.


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## Thorburn

Cowboy2 said:


> I agree with this. I always thought I was strong but after seeing these types of words to another man i don't see coming back from it. It isn't necessarily that she had the affair. It's that she spoke these words, allowed herself to get completely lost and infatuated with a total loser, and lied to me point blank about it.
> 
> The set of values she lives by are very different at the core. I could not lie straight to someone's face when they asked me point blank about something. I just can't. I'm not built that way. She apparently is. I never knew. It's like discovering another person. Makes me feel like I never really knew her and that is SCARY.
> 
> Turned out the OM had multiple affairs. I could tell how it made my wife feel to be one of a line of "special" people in his life. The guy is a total loser too. From what I found out I am kicking myself for ever feeling 2nd best.
> 
> W shows little remorse. It's my fault.


In her mind it is your fault, it is how cheaters justify their lack of morals. Until she owns it completely there is no hope for this relationship and I mean none. She is still in cheating mode. It really does not matter how many lovers the OM had or has. He has made her feel special. If this is still her mindset you got to end it.


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## harrybrown

File for divorce. Maybe she will wake up, maybe she won't.

How would she feel if you had the affair?

Did you ask her if she used protection? She says nothing physical, but have her tested for stds.

She is lying to you when her lips move.


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## TRy

Cowboy2 said:


> W shows little remorse. It's my fault.


 The next time that she tries to blame you, remind her that "a marriage requires both parties making an effort to make it work". Then show her where she wrote to the other man that "I don't want it to just be fantasy-I think it's a huge reason I'm not patching things up better with my husband". Then tell her that when she invited a 3rd person into the marriage, and stopped making an effort, the marriage never had a chance, and that is all on her.


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## Lovemytruck

Cowboy2 said:


> I agree with this. I always thought I was strong but after seeing these types of words to another man i don't see coming back from it. It isn't necessarily that she had the affair. It's that she spoke these words, allowed herself to get completely lost and infatuated with a total loser, and lied to me point blank about it.
> 
> *The set of values she lives by are very different at the core.* I could not lie straight to someone's face when they asked me point blank about something. I just can't. I'm not built that way. She apparently is. I never knew. It's like discovering another person. Makes me feel like I never really knew her and that is SCARY.
> 
> Turned out the OM had multiple affairs. I could tell how it made my wife feel to be one of a line of "special" people in his life. The guy is a total loser too. From what I found out I am kicking myself for ever feeling 2nd best.
> 
> W shows little remorse. It's my fault.


:iagree:

The sad reality is that you now know what your WW's core is like. The core is not normally something that can be fixed.

The bright side is that you have made a declaration in your post above that will help you mend. You realize that you can't be with her anymore. It takes many of us many months, years, or never to get to this point. I struggled for 8 months before deciding a D was for me.

So sorry you are hurting and in this hole. Part of being a strong man is courage to face your reality. You name's sake suggests you are a cowboy like me. Time to ride. Make your plans and don't look back.

Once you are out of the fire, take some time to find a better woman. There are many. I am sure you will succeed.  I did.

God bless you and your family. Hope you have a decent Christmas/holiday season.


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## manticore

Cowboy2 said:


> I agree with this. I always thought I was strong but after seeing these types of words to another man i don't see coming back from it. It isn't necessarily that she had the affair. It's that she spoke these words, allowed herself to get completely lost and infatuated with a total loser, and lied to me point blank about it.
> 
> The set of values she lives by are very different at the core. I could not lie straight to someone's face when they asked me point blank about something. I just can't. I'm not built that way. She apparently is. I never knew. It's like discovering another person. Makes me feel like I never really knew her and that is SCARY.
> 
> Turned out the OM had multiple affairs. I could tell how it made my wife feel to be one of a line of "special" people in his life. The guy is a total loser too. From what I found out I am kicking myself for ever feeling 2nd best.
> 
> W shows little remorse. It's my fault.


well you don't seem to be delusional (deceiving yourself) you know she screwed big time and with a total loser, and you say she is not remorseful, so what are your plans in the near future?


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## thummper

Cowboy, it sounds like your wife has already "checked out" of the marriage. Reading the communications between the two, it sounds like a couple of high school kids involved in a crush. I'm surprised he hasn't asked her to "go steady." The level of disrespect she has shown to you and your relationship is mind blowing. If Mrs. Thummper had done that to me, she'd be long gone. I think you need to let her know you're not going to put up with one more minute of this ridiculous adolescent behavior. You've contacted a lawyer and divorce is definitely on the table. Let's see how she reacts to that little bit of news. Hopefully it will shake the fog out of her eyes. If it doesn't, then you'll know what to do. Regardless of what you decide, I wish the best for you. You really deserve better.


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## LongWalk

Have you filed for divorce?
How will you handle custody?
Is she able to live without being in a relationship?
How long before she has someone new?
Is she surprised that she cannot just come home?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## The Middleman

dontbeused said:


> you don't come back from this. no strong person does. Only the weak feel they have to hold on after this type of betrayal. Be strong, kick her to the curb.


:iagree:


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Cowboy2 said:


> I always thought I was strong *but after seeing these types of words to another man i don't see coming back from it.*


http://theflickcast.com/wp-content/uploads//outlaw-josey-wales2.jpg
"You know there ain't no forgetting."

I'm with ya Cowboy. Time to hit the trail on this one.


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## happyman64

How ya doin Cowboy?


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## arbitrator

Cowboy2 said:


> The OM lives in the same city, probably 15-20 minutes I would guess. From what I have found out he has a long time GF that he has 2 young kids with.
> 
> He and my W were friends in high school and had some torrid intense relationship for several months shortly after that. *They found each other on FB a couple of months ago.* *She told me about it for a couple of weeks and then stopped talking about him. Then started acting more distant.* Maybe the emails refer to something from the past but jeez that is like 20 years ago!!!
> 
> I will clean up the emails and post soon to show. I saw another FB message from OM to my W that said how much he loves her and being with her for the rest of his life was his ultimate goal. He has needed her for 20 years! It's crazy!! My W doesn't really have the time to spare that I know of. I guess she could say she is at work and leave early or something that I don't know of but almost all of her time that I know of is taken up.
> 
> Thank you for your help so far.


*Just another happy marriage decimated, courtesy of FB ~ Thank you, Mr. Zuckerberg!

I totally sympathize, Cowboy! After all, I'm a victim of it, too!

I do believe that she brazenly set you up for heartbreak by telling you about it. But when she quit talking to you about it was when she started physically hooking up with him and banging his bones for him! From that point on, you fastly became her "Plan B!"

And I'm afraid that you can absolutely take that to the bank! *


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## Emptyshelldad

Me too Facebook played a role, but really all it did was expose a weakness that was already present. It's like those who kill themselves with a gun, and then we blame the fact that they had a gun. Well affairs and weak people have been around before Facebook. And it's sad when people use tools that can enhance our lives to destroy them. 

Think about it? Would you really feel better knowing that your wife would have cheated if given the chance, but because there was no Facebook the chance never appeared so easily?

I wouldn't....I prefer to give them enough rope to hang themselves. Sorry for all the suicide metaphors.


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## cdbaker

Emptyshelldad said:


> Me too *Facebook played a role, but really all it did was expose a weakness that was already present.* It's like those who kill themselves with a gun, and then we blame the fact that they had a gun. Well affairs and weak people have been around before Facebook. And it's sad when people use tools that can enhance our lives to destroy them.
> 
> Think about it? Would you really feel better knowing that your wife would have cheated if given the chance, but because there was no Facebook the chance never appeared so easily?
> 
> I wouldn't....I prefer to give them enough rope to hang themselves. Sorry for all the suicide metaphors.


*"Facebook played a role, but really all it did was expose a weakness that was already present."*

That's the key right there. Facebook, Google+, Snapchat, etc., none of these services cause people to cheat, they just help facilitate the cheating if one or both individuals is already open or vulnerable to it.

Although in the case of Snapchat, that's one service that I see absolutely ZERO redeemable (innocent) value in having. I'd love to be convinced otherwise, but in my mind, neither you nor your spouse should ever be using that service.


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## bandit.45

happyman64 said:


> How ya doin Cowboy?


I think Cowboy is out ridin' the fence line.


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## Emptyshelldad

We , my ex and I, use snap chat a lot for all kinds of chatting. Like video chat and text merged. It just seems easier than doing the picture message thing. 

But all of these tools are like money in a sense. You can do good or bad with them.


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## ing

Cowboy2 said:


> I have started the 180 and will be seeing an attorney tomorrow.
> 
> My W does not seem remorseful AT ALL! She only seems remorseful that she got caught. I have not spoken to her or confronted her any more since posting. I will be working to gather more evidence. So far all she has done is say how she was unhappy in the marriage and toss that right at me. It's like she is trying to make it my fault!!
> 
> There have been many "I love you's" back and forth that seem really emotional. We are talking the kind of emotion I havent' seen from her in 10 years. What's the deal?!?! Seeing these words hurts deeply. I also just don't understand it!! How can anyone who is married with children fall into something like this? And so quickly? I mean we had issues in our marriage but nothing out of the ordinary that I know of. I don't get it!!
> 
> I am confused and don't know what to do other than do the 180 and get legal advice right now. What i can't see coming back from is someone that is suppossed to be on my side and have my back lying right to my face to be with another man. it is unbelievable!
> 
> I will figure out a way to let the OM's GF know.


She has "fallen in love" You are her barrier to happiness and get used to it being your fault. 
Remember that whatever she says is ONLY HER OPINION. You need to detach. Go on anti-anxiety drugs, it will help,

Don't try and work it out there is no logic to follow. 

DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE!!!

As everyone says. You go full nuclear. There is no other way. 
Expose to his GF. Send her unedited emails. Find her on Facebook. track her down. This is vital for her as well as you.
So sorry.


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## Cowboy2

Sorry for not being around, I was working to get through the holidays. 

I have gotten the divorce lawyer lined up and opened a new checking account. I'm buttoning up a few more details and will file before the end of the week. 

Thank you for all the support.


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## bandit.45

Good for you. Does the wife know you are filing?


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## aug

Dont forget to print out your evidence and keep it in a safe place away from your house. Or put it on a USB. Or forward a copy to another email account.


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## manticore

stay strong man, look for your support group (friends, close family), also hitting the gym is a good constructive way to distract yourself, and at the same time helps your selfstem while you rebuild your image.


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## Cowboy2

She does not know I am filing.

Evidence is stored in several locations.

I have reached out to friends and family for support and have amped up my work out routine.

I thought about talking to her about the divorce but seems pointless. I'll just file and go from there.


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## harrybrown

Glad you are getting out of this mess. 

I hope she someday realizes how bad she messed up.


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## lordmayhem

Cowboy2 said:


> W shows little remorse. It's my fault.


This is called blame shifting, right out of the cheaters handbook. You see, they HAVE to blame the affair on you in order to rationalize to themselves that what they're doing is right. It's complete bullsh!t.

Do not accept any blame. You are both responsible for 50% of the marriage problems. She is 100% responsible for cheating. Cheating is never the answer. She could have worked on the marriage, but instead she chose to cheat. Therefore, the fault is ALL hers.


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## bandit.45

Make sure she gets served the papers publically, ideally at work. 

I have a suspicion when she sees the tangible result of her cheating laying right there in her hands, all that defiant attitude will go out the window. 

Maybe.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Make sure she gets served the papers publically, ideally at work.
> 
> I have a suspicion when she sees the tangible result of her cheating laying right there in her hands, all that defiant attitude will go out the window.
> 
> Maybe.


Carry a voice activated recorder with you so you don't get a false DV charge on your @ss.


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## Lovemytruck

Good to see you are still moving forward. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Machiavelli

The odds are she'll fall apart and turn on the water works, at least at first, because she thinks she should be the one to dump you. They're never prepared for the flip side.


----------



## weightlifter

Machiavelli said:


> The odds are she'll fall apart and turn on the water works, at least at first, because she thinks she should be the one to dump you. They're never prepared for the flip side.


If I could like this twice I would. OK by quoting it I sort of did. Be prepared for the part after tears:

Meaner than you have EVER seen her before. As they say in Star Trek. SHIELDS UP! Red alert. Power up Divorce phaser, ready exposure torpedoes!


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## weightlifter

Did she ever admit physical or you find proof of physical?

I mean other than statistical probabilities.


----------



## Machiavelli

weightlifter said:


> Be prepared for the part after tears:
> 
> *Meaner than you have EVER seen her before.* As they say in Star Trek. SHIELDS UP! Red alert. Power up Divorce phaser, ready exposure torpedoes!


I'm sure there has been an exception at some time in the history of man, but I've never heard about it.


----------



## weightlifter

Machiavelli said:


> I'm sure there has been an exception at some time in the history of man, but I've never heard about it.


Ones where the WW was still in fog and the BH realized it and encouraged the affair to make the wife sign... Anything. We had one recently.... ?Workindad?

THAT is playing chess hardcore.


----------

