# Mending a rift



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Think DH and I are going through a tough patch. I know there are going to be ups and downs, but when you're in a down, sometimes it feels like there's no way up.

I'm torn between trying to deal with the stuff, which brings up a lot of pain and aggravation for both of us, or burying it and moving on. Lately it feels like the downs are worse than ever.

DH just holds it all in unless I drag it out. Sometimes it feels like I poke and prod so we can deal with what's bothering him, but as soon as I try to discuss what's bothering me, he doesn't want to know about it. He makes out like I'm constantly bothering him with 'issues' when in fact, I really don't, because when I do, like I said, he doesn't want to know anyway, so what's the point?

Not sure how to deal with this attitude anymore. I usually force myself to work through something that's causing a rift between us, but I'm losing motivation. He doesn't want to deal with it, maybe I should just leave the rift there.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you mean that he holds in things about you and/or you relationship?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Something I may have said or done that peeved him off, usually when we're having a disagreement over something. On the weekend I asked him to help me tidy our storage container as it used to be stacked neatly and have a pathway up the middle so we could access stuff. It became so messy in there that I would have to climb over stuff to get to any boxes or pull stuff out to get through. He disagreed with there being a need to clean it up, ended up pushing me about it so much I said he may as well just go and I'd do it. So I did it on my own basically. He tries to make out that because he didn't get detailed instruction on how I wanted every single box placed, that he didn't have enough information to help. Note he was the only one with stipulations on where anything had to be, which was his tools at the front, I just wanted it to be safe and easier to walk into it, which I said repeatedly. Anyway, he'll be holding a grudge over something to do with that. Never mind I did most of the work anyway, he'll still be peeved.

On top of us still struggling with the sex side of stuff, it just all becomes too much. He's HD, I'm LD, plus I'm very stressed out right now, which makes it even worse for me. I try, but I'm the only one who does. He's gone back to resenting me so he won't make any effort in that area. Feels like I'm trying to make out with a zombie.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

One way you can handle this is to not push him to talk. Instead you just tell him how you feel about it. That way you at least had your say. If he will not listen to you talk, write it down and give it to him. Keep a copy just incase you need to repeat your self.

If you do this, do not explain yourself. Just express your feelings.

"I am upset that when I asked for your help in tidy up the storage room so that there is a safe walk way you would not help."

If he wants to keep it all in, it's his prerogative. But you don't have to. It was unfair of you to push all that work off on me."


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Maybe that's the best way. We seem to go in circles when we discuss things when we're both feeling this distanced from each other. It's like there's a chasm between us. I hate that feeling, it's like there a bells of doom tolling down there in the gaping dark hole between us and I wonder why he doesn't hear them.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Well, that opened up a can of worms. I expressed how I felt about stuff that's been happening, that I didn't feel like a priority to him at all and he said he basically hasn't been happy since we came back from holidays over 6 weeks ago and he doesn't feel I respect or appreciate him and he's "having trouble deciding how to deal with it".

I pushed further on this, as I can't leave things alone when they aren't right. He hadn't responded to any of my points about any of it. Didn't seem to acknowledge or find it at all noteworthy that I'd just stated that I felt like a complete non priority to him, and even gave an example of something that had happened that sort of proved it. I find it heart wrenching that he doesn't think I appreciate or respect him, and I found that I needed to talk to him and reassure him that I do, but when I reflect upon it now, as he's not here, I think, he didn't seem to care how I was feeling at all. He didn't try to reassure me that I am actually a priority or of any importance until I pointed out that he hadn't addressed any of it. Now he says he loves me, but I'm starting to think he doesn't really, that maybe I should listen to what's not being said as well. 

After discussing stuff I know he finds me uninteresting. I see this is probably my fault as over the years I've tried to find interest in what he's interested in. Before him it was books, study and socialising. I took up Kung Fu because he loves it, but then we moved and I haven't taken it back up. I've been starting to learn to ride a motorbike because he loves it. I played computer games with him and his mate before we were married so I could be involved in something he was doing. That turned into me playing computer games way too much for about 6mths, but that's another story. Now when he says he doesn't find me interesting (not in so many words, but pretty much), I think, he must never have actually found *me* interesting. I haven't changed. My main interests are still books and study, but now I don't buy books because I have no room for them, and I've never gotten into reading on a tablet/phone. I borrow books when I can, but life feels too busy for me to become obsessed with a book (once I start I generally just don't put it down until it's done). As for study, I just research stuff randomly now rather than do any directed study. I'm not actually any different to when we first met. Is he deluding himself? Maybe he never found me interesting. Why did he want to be with me? I don't understand it anymore.

My mother found me crying and I said I was having troubles in my marriage and she tells me she doesn't think DH has ever actually loved me deeply, only on the surface. That she thinks I should accept this and stop wanting more as I'll just make myself miserable. So from an outsiders POV, apparently it's been obvious to everyone but me that DH doesn't actually love me all that much.

He's telling me he doubts my feelings, and I never thought that at any point lately that our problems were about lack of love. I certainly felt that I loved him, I thought he loved me, but maybe he's doubting that I love him because *he* is the one who doesn't feel it.

I'm throwing in the towel on love. I've no clue how to make a relationship work. I can't suddenly change into someone else. I thought I'd made the right choice, that we were made for each other, but I think this was based on the assumption that he loved me for who I was, now I think that he doesn't actually know me at all. He doesn't see all this effort I've put into keeping things going between us. Now I realise that maybe I had to put in all this effort while he wouldn't even try because he just wasn't all that interested in making it work, because he's not all that interested in me.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Breeze.. so sorry to hear all of this.. (((hugs)))...having your mother say what she did...doesn't mean she is right on this.. could be just some grave misunderstandings here..and better communication may help you both overcome...let's hope...

But it's true, as women, we need to feel our husbands hear us , care how we are feeling.. pushing us away is devastating..

Has your H always been like this...in the past during high stress periods, you mentioned the last 6 weeks... or do you feel it's deeper .. *do you feel he has resentments built up*.. things he has been carrying internally.. and how about yourself?

You mentioned the HD/ LD thing... so often this can cause a chasm -where communication breaks down because each knows they will keep hitting a wall, it's something they have to "accept" but hasn't resolved within themselves...they still blame the other for their unhappiness... and we carry this....it festers.. 

You are probably familiar with a certain style of communicating as to influence his being more receptive to your words .. though even in this a man can still decide to clam up -because he is just stubborn or what not... maybe you are already doing this.. 

COMMUNICATION:“YOU” V/S “I” STATEMENTS

If you can get his opening up to you on this deeper level to what you both seek in a relationship.....

Could each fill out one of these .. *>>>* Emotional Needs Questionnaire
........

and sorting out these differences.. it sounds you have catered to him trying to please him to hold his interest over the years.. but feel even this is not good enough for him anymore.. maybe he is just spoiled and he's gotten in the habit of taking you for granted.. unfortunately it happens far too often. 

What else is going on in his life, troubles at work, health issues, bills piling up... anything??

Sad to say but too often people hurt the ones they love the most.... Could be what is going on here too....


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## MrBreeze (Dec 16, 2014)

Maybe I'm just not getting my point across. I don't want to discuss things unless it is gain some sort of resolution. The same conversation with the same explanations leading to the same dead end gets us nowhere.
I was never interested in watching you read books, and made no claim. I fell in love with who you are, not what you do, hobbies and activities are just a way to show who you are. Your personality, wit, and thoughts are the parts of you that I love, any hobbies we do together are a chance to see that, which hasn't happened a lot lately. 

During our trip I think the core of the problem reached a head, to a point where you insulted not just me, but my manhood/masculinity. It was more than an ego bruising, it showed how you feel about me as a person, and with that realisation I knew it had to change. I've always been an easy going person, happy to please others which in itself pleases me, particularly if its you, but this somehow is treated like a weakness. That personality trait isn't something I want to change just to feel equal or appreciated.

I do ask how you are feeling, and try to help when something is wrong. Any time I bring up something that is an issue for me it turns into a fight about what I am doing or not doing, I'm not big on talking about feelings to start with, but if each time I do it blows up into an argument about what a bad person I am there's a point where I stop creating that situation. It's not that I'm not interested in how you are feeling, I just can't keep pulling out more reasons why I am at fault.

Cleaning the container didn't need to an issue. I'm a computer technician, every day I fix problems for people, but the key part of the job is determining what the actual problem is, not what they have said they want done. It's the only way to actually satisfy their requirement, instead of just doing what was asked then dealing with more drama when what they actually wanted wasn't addressed. When you said you wanted to tidy the container I asked why so I could figure out what triggered the idea, so I could understand what you were trying to achieve so I could help you achieve it, but you refused to answer and only got angry. When I pushed to try to understand you just shut off and started blaming me, then stated you would do it yourself. So I left to give you time to cool down and focus, when I came back to try to help again the problem only got worse.

I've listened to years of how you are making all the effort, but anything I do goes unnoticed, and if I do bring it up you acknowldge it briefly then dismiss it because of something else I haven't done.
Even little things, I cook you breakfast every morning, but never a thankyou unless I point out you haven't said thank you for months. Then the next day it will be another reminder about how I don't do enough around the house, or with the kids. I spend far more time with the kids than you realise, that's why we are so close, I just don't mention it or make a big deal about it, but it seems this means it goes completely unnoticed. I would like to do more aroudn the house, but it isn't my house, anything I do is either wrong or I have done it wrong, or it shouldn't have been done.

My high sex drive makes it hard for me to show affection, despite wanting to. When it has been weeks/months I cannot help becoming ammorous during physical contact, only to be immediately shutdown, over the years I've learned to hold it back, but that means almost all of it, and I have brought this up as an issue many times before, I cannot think of you like a lover but treat you only as a friend without it affecting how I feel about you. We both know this is a problem, and each time we address it it's only days until it is forgotten and the problem starts to build again.
I refuse to hear bells tolling, I know things have to change, but at no point have I considered our marriage wouldn't work, or could at least be made to. You are still the person I chose to marry, while never believing in divorce, it was never a hard decision, but not one taken lightly. It's not that I don't find you interesting, you jus tdon't seem interested, in me, or any activity. I've tried to find activities for us to enjoy, or give you ideas for hobbies just to get you involved in something and show some interest in it so that I can do it with you. You have always been your own person, arguably the more dominant of the two of us (by my choice), but without having interest in something I cannot see that personality.

SimplyAmorous, work is horrible at the moment, and has been for some time, I'm frequently pulling up to 20 hour days to try to get is on top of the workload. Which is partly why I'm so frustrated when I finally get a weekend I don't have to work, then wake up to being told I have do some other chore or go somewhere. I don't mind doing it, it's just the disappointment after feeling like I was getting a chance to relax and wind down, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, a bit of warning could avoid that problem, it's just looking forward to something, then having it taken away. That may sound selfish but it makes any task feel like more of a burden than it should, because it's just one more urgent fire to put out, with a bit of warning it could be something I look forward to instead.

Since this is all public, I will mention that I've tried to stay away from these forums as it was Breeze's personal thing, I'm sure some of you had already formed opinions on me. I have seen the odd post that was particularly biased or a complete misunderstanding, when addressed the posts were taken down without explanation, so I guess you can only go by what you have seen, even if it wasn't completely accurate, everyone is biased to an extent, we can't help it. Sorry for the rant, just blurting out my thought.

Mr Breeze


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Are you in a position where you can afford to leave him?


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## MrBreeze (Dec 16, 2014)

Wow jld, way to help a couple work out their issues.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

jld said:


> Are you in a position where you can afford to leave him?


jld is it HIGHLY irresponsible for you to encourage people to leave their spouses so easily. It's becoming your mantra.

I'm not sure why you choose this route, but I encourage you to reconsider your stance.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Breeze and Mr. Breeze, can you help me understand how your week normally runs. What are the work hours between the two of you and do you guys have kids?


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## MrBreeze (Dec 16, 2014)

We recently purchased a company, I work full time (read as 8:00-22:00 ish with a visit home for dinner and to see Breeze and the kids), Breeze works there also part time, although currently close to full time. We have two kids.
Oh, and in case it wasn't mentioned earlier, we moved to purchase the company and currently live with her parents.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

So you are working 14 hour days and she is pushing full time herself which is another almost 8 hours. Who has the kids while y'all are working so late?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MrBreeze said:


> Wow jld, way to help a couple work out their issues.


I am sorry, Mr. Breeze. I don't even remember seeing your post; I truly do not know how I overlooked it.

Very good to see you posting here. Always helpful to see the other side.


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## MrBreeze (Dec 16, 2014)

She is only doing full time while it is school holidays and her parents are watching the kids. Normally she works school hours.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> jld is it HIGHLY irresponsible for you to encourage people to leave their spouses so easily. It's becoming your mantra.
> 
> I'm not sure why you choose this route, but I encourage you to reconsider your stance.


Sometimes seriously considering leaving can make people see what they have in their marriage. It can put them off a complaining track, and onto a pro-activity track.

At the same time, I don't think people should feel trapped. I think working things out would ideally come from a place of love, not from fear.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

breeze said:


> Maybe that's the best way. We seem to go in circles when we discuss things when we're both feeling this distanced from each other. It's like there's a chasm between us. I hate that feeling, it's like there a bells of doom tolling down there in the gaping dark hole between us and I wonder why he doesn't hear them.


Are the two of you each just talking about your own feelings and defending yourself from the other?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

jld said:


> Sometimes seriously considering leaving can make people see what they have in their marriage. It can put them off a complaining track, and onto a pro-activity track.
> 
> At the same time, I don't think people should feel trapped. I think working things out would ideally come from a place of love, not from fear.


Correct, it's stay different or leave, but lets try stay different first before jumping to leaving.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

MrBreeze said:


> She is only doing full time while it is school holidays and her parents are watching the kids. Normally she works school hours.


So if y'all are living with her parents, what is it that is expected of both of you to run your own family?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

So interesting to see the other side. And how uplifting that a husband take the time and interest to write such an honest, thought out post. It looks to me like you two just need to learn to really listen to each other, and to appreciate each other. I am seeing love here. How lucky you two are! PAY ATTENTION to what the other person is saying and try to understand how the other person is seeing things. MrBreeze has made my morning.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MrBreeze said:


> Maybe I'm just not getting my point across. I don't want to discuss things unless it is gain some sort of resolution. The same conversation with the same explanations leading to the same dead end gets us nowhere.
> I was never interested in watching you read books, and made no claim.* I fell in love with who you are, not what you do, hobbies and activities are just a way to show who you are. Your personality, wit, and thoughts are the parts of you that I love, any hobbies we do together are a chance to see that,* which hasn't happened a lot lately.


That is sweet. Breeze, you need to hang on to those words and feel the truth of them.



> During our trip I think the core of the problem reached a head, to a point where you insulted not just me, but my manhood/masculinity. It was more than an ego bruising, it showed how you feel about me as a person, and with that realisation I knew it had to change.


"A bell once rung cannot be unrung." 
"It is you for whom the bell tolls"

Hurtful words cannot be taken back but fearlessly looking and listening to the meaning can create positive change. This can take a while to happen.



> I've always been an easy going person, happy to please others which in itself pleases me, particularly if its you, but this somehow is treated like a weakness. That personality trait isn't something I want to change just to feel equal or appreciated.
> 
> I do ask how you are feeling, and try to help when something is wrong. Any time I bring up something that is an issue for me it turns into a fight about what I am doing or not doing, I'm not big on talking about feelings to start with, but if each time I do it blows up into an argument about what a bad person I am there's a point where I stop creating that situation. It's not that I'm not interested in how you are feeling, I just can't keep pulling out more reasons why I am at fault.


Couple of thoughts on this...

Communication between you and your wife seems to be miles apart. It sounds like your marriage has sunk to a place where each time you and your wife try to resolve something you end up feeling attacked and she ends up feeling like she hasn't been heard. Standing in your various corners will not help either of you resolve anything at all ever.

My husband also feels attacked whenever I talk about things between us. I know that a lot of this is my fault because I am not good with sandwiching something I wish to see him change between things he is doing that I like and approve of. But if I want to be heard I have to make things easier to hear. At the same time, he has to have the strength to hear the discordant notes. 



> Cleaning the container didn't need to an issue. I'm a computer technician, every day I fix problems for people, but the key part of the job is determining what the actual problem is, not what they have said they want done. It's the only way to actually satisfy their requirement, instead of just doing what was asked then dealing with more drama when what they actually wanted wasn't addressed. *When you said you wanted to tidy the container I asked why so I could figure out what triggered the idea, so I could understand what you were trying to achieve so I could help you achieve it, but you refused to answer and only got angry. *When I pushed to try to understand you just shut off and started blaming me, then stated you would do it yourself. So I left to give you time to cool down and focus, when I came back to try to help again the problem only got worse.


This is a classic example of a negative meta message.

She says she wants to clean the container. You ask why. But what SHE HEARS is the long history in her own mind of having to validate her reasons, her wants, her needs, her desires. "I want a kiss" needs to explanation but if you were to ask why I think the fact that she is being asked to explain her request is in and of itself a form of invalidation.

This is where active or reflective listening is needed. It changes the pattern of you needing clarification in order to fulfill her expectations and her feeling invalidating by having to explain and prove her sound reasoning.

"I want to clean out the container today."

Reflect that back by restating or paraphrasing: "oh? You feel like we should get that container cleaned out? Okay, what's our goal?"

She could get snarky, "the goal (here the word idiot might be silently shouted) is to clean it out!!!"

You calmly reply, "yes, we're going to clean it out I'm just looking for job specs, it helps me to better understand exactly what you want done."

"We need to get the boxes stacked into some basic organized way so that we can walk through a center aisle without tripping over stuff."

You don't ask your clients why they want a job done. You ask them how they want the job done, what the end goals look like. The word "why" implies a need for justification. The word " how" seeks job specs.



> I've listened to years of how you are making all the effort, but anything I do goes unnoticed, and if I do bring it up you acknowldge it briefly then dismiss it because of something else I haven't done.


So you feel like the things you do are unappreciated and the things she expects you to do aren't articulated until you have disappointed her by not doing them?




> Even little things, I cook you breakfast every morning, but never a thankyou unless I point out you haven't said thank you for months.


Is it safe to assume you thank her for cooking other meals?



> Then the next day it will be another reminder about how I don't do enough around the house, or with the kids. I spend far more time with the kids than you realise, that's why we are so close, I just don't mention it or make a big deal about it, but it seems this means it goes completely unnoticed. I would like to do more aroudn the house, but it isn't my house, anything I do is either wrong or I have done it wrong, or it shouldn't have been done.


You feel criticized and unappreciated. I think a LOT of husbands feel this way. My own husband could have written this several years ago before we worked on these kinds of issues, like house work and child care.

Here's what we did to work out some of these things. I had to let go on some things and he had to get better at other things. This means Beeze has to define what tasks she absolutely MUST have done her way, and what tasks she can leave to you to do as you see fit. Breeze has to let go of some expectations and she has to own the fact that some of her expectations aren't really that important. You, on the other hand, have to put smarter effort into the things that are really important to her.

I like to use loading the dishwasher and folding towels as examples of this. I wanted these things done a certain way for a specific and important reason. I want the dishes to come out clean and I want all the towels to fit neatly into the linens closet. In return for this, I had to own how persnickety I had become about a LOT of tasks, and had to let many things go.



> My high sex drive makes it hard for me to show affection, despite wanting to. When it has been weeks/months I cannot help becoming ammorous during physical contact, only to be immediately shutdown, over the years I've learned to hold it back, but that means almost all of it, and I have brought this up as an issue many times before, I cannot think of you like a lover but treat you only as a friend without it affecting how I feel about you. We both know this is a problem, and each time we address it it's only days until it is forgotten and the problem starts to build again.


First of all, if you have a sex drive being physically affectionate with your spouse will trigger that sex drive, so becoming aroused by cuddling is NOT something you should EVER have to apologize for! Breeze, expecting him to cuddle without arousal is unfair.

*Breeze, if your husband doesn't feel appreciated, and doesn't feel wanted by you, and his desire for you is turned away, and his arousal is nearly mocked how the hell do you expect him to continue to WANT to work with you to resolve things?
*



> I refuse to hear bells tolling, I know things have to change, but at no point have I considered our marriage wouldn't work, or could at least be made to. You are still the person I chose to marry, while never believing in divorce, it was never a hard decision, but not one taken lightly. It's not that I don't find you interesting, you jus tdon't seem interested, in me, or any activity. I've tried to find activities for us to enjoy, or give you ideas for hobbies just to get you involved in something and show some interest in it so that I can do it with you. *You have always been your own person, arguably the more dominant of the two of us (by my choice), but without having interest in something I cannot see that personality.*


My husband could have written the bolded part.



> SimplyAmorous, work is horrible at the moment, and has been for some time, I'm frequently pulling up to 20 hour days to try to get is on top of the workload. Which is partly why I'm so frustrated when I finally get a weekend I don't have to work, then wake up to being told I have do some other chore or go somewhere. I don't mind doing it, it's just the disappointment after feeling like I was getting a chance to relax and wind down, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, a bit of warning could avoid that problem, it's just looking forward to something, then having it taken away. That may sound selfish but it makes any task feel like more of a burden than it should, because it's just one more urgent fire to put out, with a bit of warning it could be something I look forward to instead.
> 
> Since this is all public, I will mention that I've tried to stay away from these forums as it was Breeze's personal thing, I'm sure some of you had already formed opinions on me. I have seen the odd post that was particularly biased or a complete misunderstanding, when addressed the posts were taken down without explanation, so I guess you can only go by what you have seen, even if it wasn't completely accurate, everyone is biased to an extent, we can't help it. Sorry for the rant, just blurting out my thought.
> 
> Mr Breeze


Your wife wrote this:


> My mother found me crying and I said I was having troubles in my marriage and she tells me she doesn't think DH has ever actually loved me deeply, only on the surface. That she thinks I should accept this and stop wanting more as I'll just make myself miserable. So from an outsiders POV, apparently it's been obvious to everyone but me that DH doesn't actually love me all that much.


I could have written that. Some days I still feel that way because my H is not demonstrative in word or deed. Mr. Breeze, this is on you to figure out how to make your wife feel loved and do it. What are her love languages? How does she best feel loved?

I think it's great you both are posting in this thread! My own marriage improved dramatically when my H joined and began reading my posts and posting himself.

I will say this Breeze and Mr. Breeze, you both have to work to meet each other needs positively and you both have to work to avoid hurting each other. So your communication needs to be centered on "this is what I need to feel loved" or "when you do or say this I feel attacked or unloved or unappreciated." You two have to get down to the basics of meeting each other's needs and working to make one another feel loved.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

3Xnocharm said:


> So interesting to see the other side. And how uplifting that a husband take the time and interest to write such an honest, thought out post. It looks to me like you two just need to learn to really listen to each other, and to appreciate each other. I am seeing love here. How lucky you two are! PAY ATTENTION to what the other person is saying and try to understand how the other person is seeing things. MrBreeze has made my morning.


Me too. I was reading that with my mouth hanging open..it's not about falling out of love here...you 2 are missing each other...have been for some time, it's a communication break-down... he feels as hurt as she does.. the why's may be different and the needs/ desires different, but the wonderful news is....both are committed to working on it...and her Mom was wrong! 



> *Mr breeze said*: I've listened to years of how you are making all the effort, but anything I do goes unnoticed, and if I do bring it up you acknowldge it briefly then dismiss it because of something else I haven't done.


Those little acknowledgements along the way.. . *Words of affirmation* spoken ...some may not feel they are necessary.. but they have an "*encouraging*" effect too.. here is a good thread on that.. for you both...even amidst the stress...it's something you could both UP in your daily exchanges...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/39565-validating-your-spouse.html

I wish you both some long over-due make up sex tonight!


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

We've both been so overwhelmed with this business purchase lately. DH is working long hours to keep up with all the tech work. I'm dealing with everything else basically. I'm hoping it'll settle down soon. Doesn't help when crap like my office ceiling leaking happens. Sometimes it feels like the universe is against you.

There's so much I could respond with, but I just can't yet. I'm too raw. Just getting through the day without balling is enough of a struggle, and other than during sad moments in movies (like Toy Story 3 when all the toys are holding hands, how could a person NOT cry during that?), I'm not a person who cries.

Someone asked what our responsibilities are in regards to family stuff, we're expected to help out much more than we are. We are living with my parents rent free. We pay expenses though of course. I look after the kids but on school holidays, my Mum has been looking after them. I try to do most of the cooking (dinner), but there's been weeks where it's been so hectic the parents have been doing more than their scheduled 2days/week. I know they want us to be helping around the house more, just repairs and maintenance stuff. We get a cleaner in once a week at our expense. I feel like a freeloader at the moment, and I know they're comparing us to my eldest sister who lived with them at one stage and find us lacking. They set the bar high. DH says he has to go to work and that grants him a free pass from all other responsibilities, meanwhile, I'm at home dealing with the shame, the guilt, and the feeling of hopelessness. I will just have to do better at home. Let myself fall into a pit of depression lately I think, waking up with panic attacks, feeling like staring at walls, or at a computers screen trying to escape my reality.

I get that people who work long hours don't want to have to do anything else. I dealt with that when we lived in our own home but when you live in someone else's home, it's different. They aren't getting the benefit of working long hours, they just know that the person living in their home won't do their share of the work. Anyway, I'd move out in a heartbeat if we could. I regret buying the business. If we hadn't we could be buying a house instead, but now that has to wait.

So my quick reply turned into a vent fest.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Breeze, I am getting the impression that part of the problem is the difference in communication and problem solving style between the two of you.

Your style is typical for a woman. You want to talk it out. You want to be heard and understood. You are not looking for Mr. Breeze to solve your problems, you just what a shoulder to lean on and someone to listen while you talk things through.. and then you will come up with your own solution.

His style is the typical style for men. He goes off to his man cave to think the problem through. He does not want to talk. Generally men see a lot of talk as unproductive. When he has a solution, he will come out of his man cave and implement it.

As they say, men are from Mars, women are from Venus. We do things very differently.

So when you want to talk to him, he just wants the problem laid out. Then he will solve it for you. When you keep pressing him to talk, he does not understand the need to talk so darn much.

When he goes into his man cave, you feel ignored, minimized, etc.

When he comes out of the man cave when he has what he thinks is the solution. But that's not what you wanted. You don't want him to fix it. You will fix it. You just wanted him to hear you.

And round and round you go.

In the things you talk about, there are many frustrations that you can solve without loading them on him. He's working long hours. Plus, he's not going to solve them the way you want.

One that stood out is that you feel that you are not doing what you should be at your parent's place. You bring up meals.

There is a way to handle this. Crock pot meals. Put the food on in the morning on low. It's a one pot meal. Dinner becomes a no-brainer. If you get a large crock pot. You can serve one meal and freeze the rest for the following week.

Get 5 recipes and repeat them weekly until you get more control over things. 

Issues like this is why we women have female friends.... you can talk these types of things out here with us to brainstorm. Or you can do it with some female friend in real life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I know that there are other issues. Mr. Breeze brought up that when he does something around the house you then complain that it's not good enough.

Now this is the kind of thing that "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" is all about.

You two are going to have to discuss these. Sometimes when one spouse thinks that the other did a job wrong… it’s really about wanting it done your way. Other times, the complaining spouse has a legitimate gripe. Both of these are Love Busters. If you are just being picky and want things done your way so you jump on Mr. Breeze, then you are Love Busting. If on the other hand Mr. Breeze is doing a half ass job to get it over with quickly.. then he is Love Busting.

I’ll give you an example of when it’s a Love Buster.

I start doing the dishes (by hand) and pile them in the sink, fill with hot soapy water. My husband comes along and says I’m doing it all wrong, his method is better. Ok, why does it matter how I pile the dishes in the sink? When I do it my way the dishes are just as clean as when he does it his way. Him doing this is a Love Buster. He does it every time I do the dishes. The outcome is that I won’t do the dishes if he is around because of the way he does this. Since he’s the only one who knows how to put dishes in the sink, he can do them. Psst

Here’s an example of a job being done half ass and so the way it’s done is a Love Buster. 

When my husband cleans the kitchen counter, he does not put thing on the counter away. He just pushes them to the back of the counter and wipes down however much of the counter is left with nothing on it. He also does not really clean it very well. It’s left grimy with sticky spots. Now I have to come by later and put everything away and actually clean the counter. When he cleans the counter, he is not helping me. He is as responsible for housework and after dinner cleanup as I am. But in doing this it’s really an in-your-face to me saying that he’s resentful for having to clean the counter…. So there wife, you can do it.

And if I bring it up to him, and ask him to actually clean the counter, he can then complain that I just nag and want it done my way.

Breeze, you both need to look at the things that your husband complains about, saying that you just complain if he does not do chores your way and figure out which of you is doing the Love Busting. Then the Love Buster need to stop doing the offensive behavior. In some cases both of you might be Love Busting… it’s not always one person is wrong and the other is right.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lets get to a potential deeper issue Breeze. You are allowing the pressure you feel coming from your parents to affect your husband because it is overwhelming you. You are recruiting him to help keep their pressure from being so heavy on you. He isn't available for that. You guys made a mutual decision to deplete your monies in a way that requires him to work extremely long days and that required a move into someone else's home thus giving THEM leverage over you. Leverage that in a marriage doesn't belong to them. I'm glad they were willing and you guys do need to honor their space, but you have to always understand concepts about leverage in marriage and how to manage them well including who to let and not let have that leverage. 

Girl, I'm dishing out some tough love right here. You need to Cowgirl up. If your husband isn't available he isn't available. Do it yourself. No one can make you happy but you. And when he is available accept what he can offer for now and stop slinging yourself around in hissies making him feel bad for it. He is working his tail off for you guys. Cut him some slack. When he asks you a question, answer him without contempt. Right now he deserves appreciation and respect. He obviously loves you, but is self protecting around your hissies. Quit giving him a reason to have to self protect.

You guys need to assess a couple of things... If her parents have unreasonable expectations and are saying hurtful things there may be the need for setting boundaries with them so that some of the pressure comes off. The other thing is set a timeline on getting your own space.But one of your most important tools right now that will help you manage your day and emotions better, Breeze, is to ask yourself "what can I accomplish right now, next, today, etc that I know would make me feel better after its done." Then go do it. Quit waiting around on your H for it, YOU do it and with a smile in your heart. You are in pitiful me mode when you can do something about it. Y'all made this decision. Its already bad enough on its own. Quit compounding the pain. Its time to self manage Breeze. Toughen up Baby Girl.

Mr Breeze, try to understand the way she likes things done and view it as giving her little gifts along the way. Watch her and learn her systems, then do them that way. It communicates love to a woman. Check on her during the day if you aren't. Give her big hugs and just hold her for a moment when you get home in acknowledgement that right now she is hurting from the pressure from her parents. Everyday... She is hurting. Come to her in a spirit of understanding and deep patience. And above all love regardless of how tired, give her that moment of understanding. I will tell you one of the greatest gifts my husband gives me is in moments when I am overwhelmed, he takes my face in his hands, and just holds it, kissing me on the forehead to calm me down. You do have a lot on you right now, but save a reserve for your wife and you two seek to rebalance this situation soon. This is not sustainable. I don't know who finalized this decision, but it has put your family at risk and you need to fix it sooner than later. Don't expect her to remain under that kind of pressure indefinitely or for longer than necessary. Right now she needs to toughen up and manage it better, but you also don't need to leave her there too long and also emotionally support her through it. You need to take the lead on getting you guys out of her parents house asap.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

breeze said:


> We've both been so overwhelmed with this business purchase lately. DH is working long hours to keep up with all the tech work. I'm dealing with everything else basically. I'm hoping it'll settle down soon. Doesn't help when crap like my office ceiling leaking happens. Sometimes it feels like the universe is against you.
> 
> There's so much I could respond with, but I just can't yet. I'm too raw. Just getting through the day without balling is enough of a struggle, and other than during sad moments in movies (like Toy Story 3 when all the toys are holding hands, how could a person NOT cry during that?), I'm not a person who cries.
> 
> ...



Overwhelmed, panic attacks, not getting enough sleep.

Breeze feeling like this more often than not will cause a depression if you're not very careful.

Feeling overwhelmed, so overwhelmed you're nearly paralyzed with inactivity is a horrible way to feel. It is so difficult to wade through this.

Both you and your H have vented about your frustrations.

What can you do today that will allow you to feel a sense of accomplishment? What can you take off of your list today that will lessen your load? What can you do today to encourage your husband? What can your H do today that will make you feel loved?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Okay, I don't actually feel like I'm the one doing most of the love busting, I'm pretty easy going with stuff if it's my house, except that I take notice of how the parents want things done and I do it their way because it's their house. They've been the ones to complain about how things are done, such as when DH ran the rider mower over some rocks and broke the blades, they ask him not to mow with the ride on down in that spot so he decides that's too much criticism and never mows on the ride on again. Something my mother said to him about using the push mower must have peeved him off and now he won't mow at all, ever. The easiest job he could do for a couple of hours once a fortnight, and he's decided to hold a grudge and take it off his 'list'. Now what can he do? Well, I could find stuff, but he's not going to like it since he's typically, "women do the housework" type of thinking. Yes, I could just get in and do the mowing (gah, I hate mowing, he doesn't mind it, but yeah, cowgirl up I guess).

Example of a common occurrence, DH was griping at me constantly, telling me how we should let the dishes dry in the rack instead of wiping up and that I never stack the dishes well enough. I would get this as I'm washing up. Fact, my parents don't want dishes left in the dish rack. That's just how it is. They wipe up here. I don't complain at them about how they should be letting them drip dry, but constantly (though not last night for a change), I've had to listen to the complaints about wiping up and my apparently crappy racking skills. I completely understand how being criticised is a love buster. DH is a big believer in criticising someone to get them to do it the 'right' way. He doesn't believe in positive encouragement being helpful. I know, because we've had discussions about it. A lot of that comes out at work. Another example, I organised the staff Christmas party. DH didn't like that it was a lunch instead of a dinner and complaints about venue, time, date etc, didn't ask *why* I did it that way. Never once just said, 'thank you' for organising it, didn't appreciate any part of it. Never once had my back. We did discuss this and came to an understanding, but the fact is that this happens all the time. 

I'll come back to the rest, have to walk the dogs.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

You two are going to have to grow up. 

Honor their house.

Do it the way they want it done.

If you break it fix it

And quit b!tching at each other.

Good grief

And YES Cowgirl up ... if the dang grass needs cutting, GO CUT IT

I don't care if you don't like it

OMG if I were there I would do some serious house cleaning of some crappy attitudes!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> So interesting to see the other side. And how uplifting that a husband take the time and interest to write such an honest, thought out post. *It looks to me like you two just need to learn to really listen to each other, and to appreciate each other. I am seeing love here.* How lucky you two are! PAY ATTENTION to what the other person is saying and try to understand how the other person is seeing things. MrBreeze has made my morning.


^ ^ ^

YES! YES! THIS!!! :iagree:

breeze... I am seeing a SERIOUS lack of communication here. It's SO enlightening to see BOTH partner's feelings.

You guys are just "missing"... like an engine whose spark plugs aren't all firing at the same time.

If my ex would have EVER posted something so heartfelt and sincere, I would probably still be married.

Don't let this go (both of you) without giving it a SERIOUS shot. You probably both need REALLY GOOD counseling to help you sort this out. Don't "settle" for whoever is "in network" with your insurance company. Ask around, find the BEST counselor you can, and knock this out.

And breeze... print out Mr. Breeze's post... read it over and over, highlight it, and make changes in your relationship WHERE YOU CAN immediately. Stop withholding sex... be a partner, a lover, a confidante. Sex is the "glue", the bond, the "fixer". You CAN fix this. You and Mr. B are *miles* ahead of where we were when I pulled the plug on our marriage.

P.S. EXCELLENT comment, 3x


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Lol, I know I need to stop wallowing and just get stuff done. I'm trying. At points of serious stress I feel like I'm falling apart and everthing falls apart around me. We've taken some hard hits this year, I guess it's inevitable that it will push us backwards in regards to our connection with each other.

We have come a very long way from where we once were. In the early years of our marriage we couldn't even acknowledge each other's needs as needs. It took some serious conversations, soul searching, research and effort to overcome those barriers. DH doesn't value our conversations at the moment. I think he's forgotten how far we have come because we've taken a step back and haven't recovered that ground for far too long.

I know he needs much more from me sexually. I put his needs on the back burner and I feel he did that to me too.

While we stand in the tempest, it's hard to focus. We need our relationship to stay strong because we can't get through it alone. We've had many hits, from his family, my family, everyone has always seemed to doubt us and when you are doubting yourself, it chips away at you. That's probably why it hit me so hard. I need to believe in us, I need him to believe in us, because no one else ever has, but I know we were meant to be. It's him I want to spend forever with.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Great attitude shift Breeze. :smthumbup:

Thats whats going to get you through, remembering how far you've come, and determination to keep it going.


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## MrBreeze (Dec 16, 2014)

Finally back, took a while to get some downtime, we had an early night last night. Some really great points have been posted, I think I agree with just about everything. 

A couple of quick clarifications, the limitations/stiffling put on me helping around the house are primarily from Breeze's parents, not her. Regarding the mowing, I brought this up earlier in the week. We haven't needed to mow in ages as it has been so dry, when it finally rained (yay) I said I better mow this weekend, although I won't be using their mower, I will use ours. Somehow that was misread as "I won't be mowing", not really sure on that one, but easily cleared up. I'm guessing something must have been said about it though as the FIL did most of the mowing today.

I think one of our biggest issues is being in somebody else's house. It isn't our only issue, but we can't even talk comfortably at home. On top of that her father abusing her mother emotionally and to a small amount physically (the severity makes little difference, I still can't stand it) in front of our children and me having to sit quietly and put up with it has me on edge constantly. We need to get out of here asap but it just isn't an option right now.

Side note for Anon Pink, actually we do ask our clients why they want it done, it is the hardest but most important part of a job. Most jobs are repairs, not installations or setting something up. The client always has a perceived cause for whatever problem they are experiencing, so they come in and ask for that to be resolved. We have to pry the problem out of them through a process of elimination, and asking the same question in different ways, then we can fix the actual issue. Any time we have new staff start they initially take a customer at their word, "I need this program reinstalled, or this upgraded", the job is then done as requested, the client takes it home then promptly rings to complain, "I paid you to fix it" ensues, to which we then have them bring it back in and usually end up performing the actual fix at no cost, because "they already paid for it to be fixed". Obviously Breeze isn't a client, but this process works for me constantly throughout the day, and it's how I think (find the root cause, the actual problem, then determine how to resolve it). Breeze has to perform this same process with clients also, and knowing this I think I may be too direct when applying the same method, I expect her to know why I am asking and the information I am trying to get at, which as you said may make her feel like she has to justify the request, rather than explain it.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I am so glad you are posting too Mr. Breeze. The abuse of her father in this situation is a SIGNIFICANT issue and yet Breeze has never mentioned it. 

Breeze, do you view your Dad's behavior as abusive?


This may be self awareness time Breeze and this is why I say that. If you were raised in a home of that level of dysfunction it created some issues in you that you may or may not be aware of that is having a direct impact on your relationship with your husband. Your H sounds highly logical and honest. He sounds like he cares for you very much, so there are a couple of things I want to share with you that may help you not lose him in the future. 

1. If your parents are making comments about your husband not caring about you, you need to view that for the destructiveness that it is, almost to the degree of another woman whispering in your husbands ear that you don't really love him. And you need to tell them flat out... no more talking about my husband that is destructive to our relationship. Protect him from their thoughts,

2. Which also means, you have to stop doing it yourself. When you begin thinking "this is going to fail, he doesn't love me, doesn't want to be with me, STOP!... this is trash talk from your past and I want you to replace it with "I know my H loves me very much. You will start to see the difference and realize when these old tapes surface that you can replace them with new ones. Your Dad did a lot of damage Breeze and it WILL screw up this marriage if YOU let it. Protect him from your own thoughts.

I highly recommend the books Betrayal Bonds, books on Complex PTSD, Emotional Blackmail, Boundaries, and the big red book from ACOA Welcome to Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc..

You guys are in a very tricky situation. One that is highly toxic on TOP of having no private time as a married couple to work on these issues. This is bad y'all. What kind of time frame are you guys looking at before this can have resolution? What would the father do if Mr. Breeze stood up and told him "It is NOT ok for you to be treating your wife that way in front of MY wife NOR MY kids! So,you need to refrain or I will be calling the cops and have you reported for domestic violence"

I cannot reiterate enough Breeze, you need to protect your husband from your parents and from yourself Baby Girl. He didn't put those old tapes inside of you, therefore it is not fair to hold him hostage to them. Right now just commit yourself to owning that and learning how to work on them to get better, otherwise you will remain in a state of emotional unavailability to your husband and will also be toxic to him. Trust me... I am you. I have had to walk this road and it takes a HUGE amount of self awareness and commitment to protect your spouse from your current unaware self and your past. Interesting thing is, now that I am better, my H is having to walk the same path because now HIS past issues are rising to the surface. Let me know how I can help. Pick my brain when you need to about how to navigate anytime. I will help any way I can. I can pm you my phone number if you want to talk live.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I have talked about my parent's relationship in other threads, but didn't want to focus on it here; feels like it contaminates me when I'm trying to work through my own relationship issues. Distancing myself from it is something I work on. Sometimes I hear my Dad when DH talks to me and it tears me up inside. Like when he aggressively said he'd do it when I was lifting something heavy, instead of a supportive/loving 'Can I help you with that?'. Then DH gets my teenage reaction I always gave to my father, insulted and angry. I'd rather break my back than accept help when it's offered like that, and that's the way I grew up.

I'm very aware of how bad it is here. I thought before we moved back that Dad had mellowed, but I realise that he hasn't. I'm not sure if it's worse or not or if there is just more interaction between them since they are both now retired. I struggled to deal with my Dad, I grew up rebellious. My sister escaped through books, you couldn't drag her nose out of them, still can't. My oldest sister was the darling of my parents but she became fiercely independent and she moved out and it took many years for her to welcome them back into her life. I was Mum's barrier, her comic relief and Dad's aggravation.

I think I'd fooled myself into thinking it wasn't all that bad, that they'd changed, but now I'm hiding in my bedroom when I get home half the time, trying to escape it. When Dad is feeling that we aren't doing enough around the place, he gets in a black mood and it emanates off him. It's like I can literally feel it. It makes me feel like I'm walking on eggshells trying not to set him off.

If DH were to stand up to Dad, it would never be forgiven nor forgotten. I can do it and he loves me so while I can get away with it sometimes, and do, DH would be excommunicated, and I think he realises this. DH's mother insulted me, and by-proxy my father (said I stole a coin she sent for her daughter and gave it to my father), and is now excommunicated from my family. Even if I were to forgive and forget, Dad never would. She'll never be welcomed back again. 

Don't get me wrong, my sister's and I love our father dearly. We discuss their relationship and we all know how bad it is but when someone insults him we can't tolerate it. We're protective of both of them. Dad dealt with a great deal of anger from Mum's family, especially her mother. He's just like his own father, unfortunately. He is the most loyal, giving, loving man you could ever hope to meet, but he is also angry, impatient, abusive and lacking empathy. The physical stuff is not done when he's angry, but when he's joking around, like a slap on the arm. The problem is it's frequent and heavy. I think he uses it to try and keep Mum in her place, because I think she stands up to him more when I'm around. I feel like I cause friction between them.

So I don't want DH to stand up to Dad. I don't want him to be kicked out and us follow with no where to go. I have us on an extremely tight budget to pay off our loan asap. If we can make a good profit on the business, that will help it even more.

I think we both thought our marriage could survive anything, but you don't realise the effect the strain can have until you live it. We put ourselves in a difficult situation, but I think if we knuckle down and do what we need to in order to keep them happy, we will get through this.

I just realised that I told my MIL about how I felt about my parents relationship to a small degree. I have never talked about it to anyone but my sisters, and then DH when we married. I opened up enough to her to try and let her into my world and I think that's why the betrayal cut so deeply. She probably doesn't even realise how much it took for me to open up that much, nor how much it would cut me to treat me like I was nothing after I'd done that. I can talk about it with strangers who don't know me or my family more than someone close to me.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I like the term knuckle down and press through it. It is your only answer at this point. I hope your path is a short one. Trust me when I say that I get it. I came out of a severe abuse back ground and have had to do a LOT of personal work to not pass those behaviors on to my family including crucifying the lack of belief in my husband and I don't always succeed. My biggest advice is work to avoid compounding it until you can get out. Believe in your husband, protect him as best you can and you guys love on each other in spite of the fears. You may have to consider getting a separate job to speed up this process. Praying the best for you both.

I was going to try to pm you my phone number to call if and when you need it. I think your messaging is off, so you are welcome to have it when you want it. Message me anytime for it. Open invitation.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks Blossom. I appreciate it.


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## MrBreeze (Dec 16, 2014)

breeze said:


> If DH were to stand up to Dad, it would never be forgiven nor forgotten. I can do it and he loves me so while I can get away with it sometimes, and do, DH would be excommunicated, and I think he realises this.


Yep, never a doubt in my mind, it is very much his house, his rules, his kingdom. Everyone else is an unwanted inconvenience and should act accordingly.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Yea, my mother has tried that route. She is creeping closer and closer to dying alone.


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