# What do YOU consider an unreasonable request?



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

This forum, and most people it seems, categorize sexual requests into two basic types:

a) Reasonable requests that should be accommodated by a reasonable spouse

b) Requests that a spouse should be completely free to decline with no negative consequence.

Requests of type a) typically follow the pattern of something that's well enough established in the mainstream to be expected. If not, then the burden usually gets placed more on the declining than on the asking partner. Too many of these in a relationship, and the two of you probably have significant compatibility issues. Maybe you need to find someone who is a fully realized sexual being to meet your needs.

Requests of type b) follow the pattern of our current anal sex thread - you're free to ask, she's free to decline, and you should STFU after being politely told no way. The solution to this problem is to wrap your head around the fact that you will never do this, stop trying, be a loving and caring spouse and respect boundaries.

I'm old enough and been around the block enough times to know that sexual problems are way, way, WAY more about the union of two styles than about what any one person finds erotic, but I'm still a little fascinated by this distinction and where the line is drawn, especially with how big a hammer people will use on those they perceive to be violating the rules of request type b) compared to the sympathy usually shown for those frustrated with type a).

Most of us agree that humiliation has no place in the bedroom (unless that's your thing). So if I, hypothetically, have a wife who feels humiliated if you touch her breasts, or genitals, anything other that missionary PIV sex, or oral sex under any circumstances, which category do I land in? If I try to press the boundaries, am I the insensitive cad, or the victim, or both?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think if we look at desires and comfort with acts across the population we could find guidelines that perhaps 75% of the psychologically healthy adults would agree on. Anything inside those bounds would most frequently be agreeable. If your spouse rejected the random thing inside those lines it is your job to get over it. If your spouse rejects numerous things inside those lines your spouse has psychological issues and you are a victim.

I don't know if anal is currently in the mainstream, but neither my wife nor I am interested in trying it. Your example of touching breasts or genitals is very much central to normal sexuality, so I would say you are not a cad for pushing for it.

Pushing the boundaries I think is fine from a request standpoint but not an insisting standpoint. If it gets to where most things you want is beyond her capacity, there is a fundamental incompatibility. Assessing blame isn't helpful because it won't "cure" either one of you.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Requests of type b) follow the pattern of our current anal sex thread - you're free to ask, she's free to decline, and you should STFU after being politely told no way. The solution to this problem is to wrap your head around the fact that you will never do this, stop trying, be a loving and caring spouse and respect boundaries.


I am curious about how others think this should apply in a LTR. On one hand, I agree completely that hounding your spouse over something they have declined in not acceptable. On the other hand, I don't think that re-raising a topic after sometime is unreasonable, particularly if circumstances have changed (such as an increased sexual interest by your spouse).


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I think requests that cause physical pain need to be placed into a separate category personally.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

Categorizing requests into "reasonable" and "unreasonable" using some bell curve to establish "mainstream" sexual interests is not helpful.

If it were, then people whose interests are far out on that curve are just out of luck in life? Everything they want is unreasonable? No.

Statistics regarding what is normal can only be helpful as an aid in your search for an appropriate partner. Once you are in a relationship with someone that is the only person that matters. The options are a) one person allows their boundaries to be moved and b) the other person goes unfulfilled and c) divorce.

Any blame for a gap that cannot be bridged must be borne by both parties. One person failed to communicate and the other person failed to do due diligence on their partner.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

east2west said:


> Categorizing requests into "reasonable" and "unreasonable" using some bell curve to establish "mainstream" sexual interests is not helpful.
> 
> If it were, then people whose interests are far out on that curve are just out of luck in life? Everything they want is unreasonable? No.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, so my bell curve statistic may not have been properly stated.

I think any request is valid to make once. Even if it is way out on the tail of the curve. My point was that repeated denials of middle of the road stuff, like touching genitals, is not reasonable. Nor is repeatedly asking for something which is denied.

All of it comes down to negotiating what is acceptable to each person. If one person is not willing to do one or more particular acts, and if those acts are central needs of the other person, the gap as you stated is borne by both. Either person has the right or responsibility to end the relationship when their limits are exceeded.


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## Daneosaurus (Dec 2, 2012)

I just want to say that I don't think that there is such a thing as an unreasonable request in a sexual relationship, ie. anal, BDSM, pegging, golden showers, etc. HOWEVER, one must remember that it is just that, a request. Your SO is under no obligation to say yes to ANYTHING at all that s/he is not comfortable with. That includes what we may consider regular stuff - oral, mutual masturbation, doggy style, etc.

I agree with east2west's comment.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I think the most important request is to keep an open mind. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

There is no unreasonable request in a marriage. Only unreasonable expectations.


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## Daneosaurus (Dec 2, 2012)

Racer said:


> There is no unreasonable request in a marriage. Only unreasonable expectations.


I think is a more concise way of saying my point.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

- Sexual requests that involve outside parties. We are totally comfortable discussing this, or sharing fantasies and ideas, but it would become an unreasonable request if one of us actually expected to invite others into the bedroom.

- Severe Pain. Blood sport. Mutilation.

- Golden or Brown Showers.

Everything else is on our "reasonable request" list.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It would be unreasonable to marry a person and then expect them to live without sex against their will when you have the ability to provide. Under category (b), the denied spouse should have the right to decline to live a life of celibacy but should suffer no ill consequences. Matter-of-fact, they should be reimbursed for any loss they incurred during the fraud plus monetary damages.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

"Should"? Bad word for relationships.

I think it would be best to have the expectation that you feel secure enough with your spouse to talk about any subject, express desires and boundaries with each other, and take an interest in exploring each other using those desires and boundaries as the guidelines.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Cletus said:


> This forum, and most people it seems, categorize sexual requests into two basic types:
> 
> a) Reasonable requests that should be accommodated by a reasonable spouse
> 
> ...



NO LONGER HAVING SEX.....
One of my wifes favorites.......


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> If I try to press the boundaries, am I the insensitive cad, or the victim, or both?


The boundaries aren't so vague.

Don't beg a woman to put something in your anus. As hard as relationships are to hold together nowadays, feminizing yourself doesn't re-enforce a very attractive image to most women.
Don't nag a woman for anal sex, if it happens it happens, the more you whine, the less chance you'll get it.

The issue you mention about touching breasts, etc, etc, isn't even in the same ballpark, you can't draw a parallel between typical heterosexual activity and what's normally considered homosexual activity with a woman; you can try and try and try and try, and you can try some more, but it is what it is. All the porn freaks getting paid to take it in the butt and all the prison butt buddies in the world, will not make the behavior mainstream.

Now with that said, if two people mutually work their way into it during sex, then great, enjoy! But *pestering* one another, (emphasis on pestering) to do something that a *reasonable person would find unusual*, is simply ridiculous and destructive.

While we're at it, let's throw in the *porn induced* acceptance of the girl on girl behavior that took off over the past 10 or 15 years; that's working out real well isn't it? She kissed a girl and she liked it? Right. There's a real marriage builder for ya.

T


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

jaquen said:


> - Sexual requests that involve outside parties. We are totally comfortable discussing this, or sharing fantasies and ideas, but it would become an unreasonable request if one of us actually expected to invite others into the bedroom.
> 
> - Severe Pain. Blood sport. Mutilation.
> 
> ...


I'm with Jaquen... no outside parties, no severe pain/blood/mutilation, no golden showers, no sh!t, and in our case... no anal.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cletus said:


> This forum, and most people it seems, categorize sexual requests into two basic types:
> 
> a) Reasonable requests that should be accommodated by a reasonable spouse
> 
> ...


You seem to have completely missed the issue of the anal sex thread. It was not that he wanted anal sex and asked for it. It was that he had an attitude of entitlement no matter how she felt about it. He would not allow it on himself because he felt it would hurt but he expected her to do it eventhough he was sure it would hurt. And the icing on the cake was that he will go to a prostitute for it if his wife will not engage in it.

It's the ATTITUDE that was the issue of that thread.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

Unreasonable is atm or piv after AS without a trip to the shower. I will not accept a sexless marriage. I cannot accept one sided sexual relationship. I will not accept a third party. There is a lot that's reasonable to me. We don't have too many boundaries.


EDIT TO ADD:

It is unreasonable and across the board unacceptable if he or I suggest a sex act and is told or say why don't you try it for yourself first. 

And peeing. Don't pee on me, I don't want to pee on you. And no Boston steamers either.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You seem to have completely missed the issue of the anal sex thread. It was not that he wanted anal sex and asked for it. It was that he had an attitude of entitlement no matter how she felt about it. He would not allow it on himself because he felt it would hurt but he expected her to do it eventhough he was sure it would hurt. And the icing on the cake was that he will go to a prostitute for it if his wife will not engage in it.
> 
> It's the ATTITUDE that was the issue of that thread.


I didn't miss it in the least.

If his question had been "Can we please have PIV intercourse" and the answer had been "No", the forum would have erupted with a unanimous verdict of "get out of the marriage".

Some things are considered de rigeur in a sexual relationship, to which the requesting party is entitled or the relationship should be considered null and void. Other things, like anal, are not, and the spouse pestering for that is considered callous and unfeeling.

The primary difference is not in the attitude. A loving spouse who keeps asking, nice as pie, and who is willing to get pegged by his wife before trying it on her will still get told that "No means no", that you should lovingly accept this as a reasonable limit from your spouse. 

The boundary between the two slowly shifts over time as well. 'Twas an era when requesting a bj from your wife would have been considered by most to be a disgusting act of sodomy.

The two situations, separated only by the act itself, are NOT considered to be the same by most of us. Myself included. I'm interested in that difference, because as an HD spouse I'm always running the commentary in my head on whether or not I'm being unrealistic. If "no means no", and I'm just not being sensitive to that answer, then I have additional work to do on acceptance.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

I think that most adults would find all of these reasonable & expected acts that shouldn't require requests:

1- oral both ways separately (at least in foreplay)
2- 69
3- handjobs, fingering, vibrator play
4- vaginal sex in missionary, girl on top & doggy style

Then you have you 'next level' acts that can require a request, or a nice spouse takes it upon themself to do it:

1- BJ until completion (cum in mouth for extra care)
2- sex during the period
3- cunnilingus during said period
4- anal play both ways (tongue, finger, toys)
5- anal sex

Then you have your 'special category' that can go anywhere you want, obviously a very understanding spouse needed and open-minded with the requests. Fulfill those fantasies and satisfy those dirty little fetishes:

1- water sports
2- BDSM
3- threesomes
4- cream pies
5- strap-on role reversal

Etc.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Early on in our marriage, my wife and I had a conversation about the bedroom. We decided that the only things that were off the table were:


Pain/Humiliation
Animals
Third Parties

Everything else was open for discussion. It didn't mean that we would agree or want to do everything else, but it was open as an option to discuss.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

jaquen said:


> - Sexual requests that involve outside parties. We are totally comfortable discussing this, or sharing fantasies and ideas, but it would become an unreasonable request if one of us actually expected to invite others into the bedroom.
> 
> - Severe Pain. Blood sport. Mutilation.
> 
> ...


All ways have been my thoughts as well. 

In practice? Yeah, sex would forever consist of her riding when she wants and me on top if it were left up to her. Exciting exciting :smthumbup:


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> Early on in our marriage, my wife and I had a conversation about the bedroom. We decided that the only things that were off the table were:
> 
> 
> Pain/Humiliation
> ...


Love the inclusion of animals in your list. Never even thought of that. Will have to add that to my list as well. 

Sorry hun, I just dont think ducks have a place in our bedroom. :rofl:


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

40isthenew20 said:


> I think that most adults would find all of these reasonable & expected acts that shouldn't require requests:
> 
> 1- oral both ways separately (at least in foreplay)
> 2- 69
> ...


Sadly I think there are A LOT of people that consider anything but No.4 in your first list "weird" or "perverted"


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Middle of Everything said:


> Sadly I think there are A LOT of people that consider anything but No.4 in your first list "weird" or "perverted"


Hell, I know one who would include 1/3 of #4 too.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Cletus - Can i ask what YOU would consider a unreasonable request from your wife?

What would YOUR limit be?


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Hypothetical Cad! What was the question?


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Maybe my English is getting bad, did you say " something in your butt? " This is a VERY BAD idea.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

40isthenew20 said:


> I think that most adults would find all of these reasonable & expected acts that shouldn't require requests:
> 
> 1- oral both ways separately (at least in foreplay)
> 2- 69
> ...


I like this list... although personally I'd put the anal sex into the 'special category and BJ to completion in the top group.

Also I live a sheltered life...please explain 1- water sports?


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

waiwera said:


> I like this list... although personally I'd put the anal sex into the 'special category and BJ to completion in the top group.
> 
> Also I live a sheltered life...please explain 1- water sports?


Ahhh water sports. One of my not gonna happen list.

No other people
No feces
No PISSING ON EACH OTHER

yeah apparently waiwera pissing on someone else gets some people off. That or being pissed on.

To each their own I guess though. Not my thing but like others have said, some would consider a simple BJ to completion an abhorent deviant act.:wtf:


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

water sports involves pee, weather peeing on someone, or someone peeing on you or ingesting pee.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

40isthenew20 said:


> Then you have your 'special category' that can go anywhere you want, obviously a very understanding spouse needed and open-minded with the requests. Fulfill those fantasies and satisfy those dirty little fetishes:
> 
> 1- water sports
> 2- BDSM
> ...


A "cream pie" is just the porn term for a man ejaculating inside of a woman's anus or vagina. The vagina is still the most common place men ejaculate in sex with a woman. I'm baffled why you have that in the "special category".


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

waiwera said:


> Cletus - Can i ask what YOU would consider a unreasonable request from your wife?
> 
> What would YOUR limit be?


No fair turning the tables.

I'm in the try anything once department as long as it doesn't involve pain beyond a mild spanking, excrement, animals (thanks - I would never have thought of THAT edition until recently), or blood. 

If my partner wanted to bring a third party into the mix, that would require a very long discussion about why it was probably a bad idea, but I wouldn't necessarily make it a deal breaker - just not very likely. I doubt I would like BDSM, but again I'd give it the ol' college try in a pinch. 

If my partner got off on it and it didn't fall into the "no - no" list, I would find a way to enjoy it. At the very least, giving sexual pleasure to your partner is itself very gratifying, even when the act requested doesn't really do much for your personally.

Let me state my current position succinctly so we all know where the question is coming from.

My wife considers PIV face-to-face sex to be just about the only acceptable activity. She will just barely let me touch her sexually - she can only handle it for about 30 seconds before crawling out of her skin (and no, it's not a technique problem!). Oral is out of the question, either way. Anal would be a "hell no" moment, not that I've ever had any interest or requested it. Doggie style is demeaning and would make her feel like "just a hole for your pleasure". A couple of times a year I can get a handjob when I'm all fired up and she isn't. Toys fall into the category of "you want to put that WHERE??". 

The kinds of requests I have made over the years, with only slight success, include

1. I would like to be able to touch you as part of foreplay. We are making some ever-so-slight progress on this, perhaps in five years I might be able to do so occasionally. 
2. I would like to add a few sexual positions. I'm open to experimenting to find which work, but missionary/cowgirl are the only ones on the menu now.
3. I would like to have some sort of non-penetrative sexual acts either as part of foreplay or as the full meal - oral sex (her receiving only - I can live the rest of my life without a bj) or a toy or vibrator. 

To not sound like a complete whiny *****, I don't have it nearly as bad as some around here. I can have sex once a week as long as I play by the established rules and do my relationship maintenance during the week. What I'm struggling with is whether or not I should just STFU, accept a regular but non-stellar sex life, quit being the problem because of my dissatisfaction, and accept that "no means no".

In other words, if I had everything from list #1 from a previous post, I'd be in pretty good shape and oh, so appreciative. 

Or, as I've alluded to before, throw in the towel.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

ok... thanks this explains some of your posts somewhat... your requests seem to have been very reasonable.

Tell me..if your wife was really into sex with you and your sex life was wild and fun and regular would not getting something you fantasied about be any easier.

I thinking about the way a lot of the men spoke/wrote in the recent anal threads... the sense of self entitlement. I was quite shocked by it to be honest. I kept thinking where is the love and the caring? Sex is about giving as much as receiving....IMO.

If they were getting lots of loving sex...do you think that makes up for something you feel your missing out on.... or does it become even more of a 'forbidden fruit'?

I suppose it comes down to whether it's just a passing fancy or a full blown obession.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

waiwera said:


> ok... thanks this explains some of your posts somewhat... your requests seem to have been very reasonable.
> 
> Tell me..if your wife was really into sex with you and your sex life was wild and fun and regular would not getting something you fantasied about be any easier.
> 
> ...


I can speak for no other man than myself. I guess what I'm really getting at is that I crave a partner who thinks that sex between spouses is worthy of the effort. Someone who wants to enjoy the adventure and discover where it leads, for the both of us, without too much of a preconceived notion of an endpoint. Not someone who considers 30 minutes of obligatory sex once a week and an orgasm to be fulfilling the letter of the contract. 

So there is no one thing or fantasy that's a requirement. It's all about the attitude, not the particulars. 

I struggle with the entitlement question more than any other. My wife isn't the way she is to piss me off. My inability to be content with that is the source of our friction. I AM THE PROBLEM (ok we're the problem, but I'm the usual fuse), but I don't think I'm too far out of bounds on where I would like us to be. 

Sex *is* about giving as much as receiving, but it's hard when the gift your wife most wants you to give is to repress your innate sexuality. That is the gift I've been giving now for a long time.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Let me state my current position succinctly so we all know where the question is coming from.
> 
> My wife considers PIV face-to-face sex to be just about the only acceptable activity. She will just barely let me touch her sexually - she can only handle it for about 30 seconds before crawling out of her skin (and no, it's not a technique problem!).


Cletus, obviously this doesn't sound normal, has she always been this way? How long have you been married?

T


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Cletus, I can't find _anything_ unreasonable in any of your requests. However, I do find it highly unusual that your wife won't allow you to touch her or experiment with any new positions. Has she ever told you why she doesn't like being touched?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Cletus said:


> No fair turning the tables.
> 
> I'm in the try anything once department as long as it doesn't involve pain beyond a mild spanking, excrement, animals (thanks - I would never have thought of THAT edition until recently), or blood.
> 
> ...


This sounds horrible. I'm sorry you're in this position.


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

I feel this discussion is highly personal and tends to lead to steep generalisations. I stand by my opinion that it's best to be very well aware of your sexual compatability before committing permanently. If things chance later on you can always fall back on that you didn't change the rules of the game before deciding that you can deal with the changes.

Personally I'm only a bit bummed that my partner doesn't like receiving oral (at my request). I've always read and heard that it's one of the best ways to pleasure a woman and that it's a good way to show that you can about your partners pleasure. But oh well, if that's all I have to deal with I can handle that.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Cletus, obviously this doesn't sound normal, has she always been this way? How long have you been married?
> 
> T


It has been her way since we were married in 1985. There's been no sudden change. She's not the victim of abuse or of a horrible failure story nor any other "I wonder" moments. She's just not comfortable with sex. She has a hard time watching an R rated movie if it has a serious love-making scene. It is part and parcel of her personality. 

On the other hand, she is also the most easily orgasmic woman I've ever known, but only through the Approved Means.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jaquen said:


> This sounds horrible. I'm sorry you're in this position.


Thank you. I'm getting closer to believing that it's OK to not only want more, but to do something about it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cletus, 
How good is your non sexual affection with each other? 

Does your wife seek out your touch, or touch you first, or melt into your hugs? 

Does she like to give or get massages, back scratches? 

Is it possible your wife is super orgasmic to speed the process along? 

If she comes fast and has been satisfied, why is she so averse to switching to doggy style at that point? 

The thing about all this that seems unfair is that you chose not to assert yourself for 28 years. I know you complained, but you never took real action. 

Therapy got shot down because she said it would result in a divorce recommendation. 

You want to increase your sexual repertoire. Understandable. If it was me, my sole focus would be on finding out why my wife can only tolerate my touch for brief moments and is highly averse to touching me. In fact, I would have sex with a woman who responded that way to me. Or wouldn't kiss me.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Therapy got shot down because she said it would result in a divorce recommendation.


I see this kind of thing in a lot of threads. The offending partner refuses therapy because they do not want to hear what they already know. They are a bad spouse. It means that they believe the marriage is bad for their spouse and also not fixable, yet insist on continuing it for selfish reasons.

If I was married to someone who talked to me this I way I would respond that then we should just skip the therapy and go straight to divorce if you are so sure that the marriage is doomed.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Cletus,
> How good is your non sexual affection with each other?


Up and down over the years, like most. I have the ability through my level of affection to impact how often we have sex, but not to impact how we have sex.



> Does your wife seek out your touch, or touch you first, or melt into your hugs?


Yes. She is not touch averse in the least except as it pertains to sex. She enjoys and initiates hand holding, hugging, and lounging together. She thoroughly enjoys my touch in and out of bed and reciprocates as long as it remains "appropriate". She will touch me as part of foreplay, but can't tolerate my touching her sexually.



> Does she like to give or get massages, back scratches?


Yes to both. I bought a full sized massage table years ago that sees frequent use.



> Is it possible your wife is super orgasmic to speed the process along?


Don't think so. She's very goal oriented in sex - the goal being to efficiently get to the conclusion. Not because intercourse itself is unpleasant, but simply because it's to her the whole point of the exercise. Long foreplay and non-intercourse activity is perceived as irritating or boring.



> If she comes fast and has been satisfied, why is she so averse to switching to doggy style at that point?


$100 to anyone who can answer this question. Far as I can tell, this falls into the same category as my distaste for Brussel sprouts.



> The thing about all this that seems unfair is that you chose not to assert yourself for 28 years. I know you complained, but you never took real action.


What would constitute real action within the confines of the relationship? Even a wife has the right to say no. The only action I haven't tried to this point has been to make our continued relationship conditional upon these demands.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Cletus

To the amateur psychologist in me her being so afraid of touch in a sexual manner just SCREAMS past abuse.

Otherwise I just dont get being fine with touch and being affectionate outside of that area.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Ditto on this lookiing classic for sex abuse or assault. Seriously it hits a lot of markers for it. Her denials of abuse mean nothing.

The best approach is to clearly set out expectations and a timmeline. A good healthy sex life (as one part of a good marriage). Strong and consistent efforts with real improvements happening. Attending sex therapy as a couple starting within weeks. You have an unnspoken sett of deadlines to meet. Hhold ber feet to the fire for actions and results.

If she is avoiding some trauma she will be forced to decide whether she values the marriage enough. But only if forced to step up.

You cannot tell her she needs therapy but yyou can lead her to choose it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> It has been her way since we were married in 1985. There's been no sudden change...
> 
> On the other hand, she is also the most easily orgasmic woman I've ever known, but only through the Approved Means.


Is this becoming more of an issue with you lately, or are you just asking because you're curious?

When you say orgasmic, do you mean she has orgasms quickly, easily, or multiple times?

T


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cletus
Truly, in a sense you don't really even listen to yourself. 

Even within her comfort zone your wife strongly resists making this 'all about you'. 

Boredom while pleasing you is a next door neighbor to indifference. 

I am an expert in few things. That said, when boredom is a significant barrier to intensely pleasing your partner, the issue is not 'hardwired' sexual preference. It is a lack of effort. 

You have to separate the conflict into 3 buckets:
- physical aversion (taste, smell, gag reflex, etc) 
- psychological aversion (doggy style refusal for example) 
- boredom or indifference


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Is this becoming more of an issue with you lately, or are you just asking because you're curious?


It has been an issue for along time, one which I have been vocal about but not terribly demanding. We just emptied our nest, I've met my paternal obligations, and it's time to for me make a stay or flee decision.



> When you say orgasmic, do you mean she has orgasms quickly, easily, or multiple times?
> 
> T


Yes.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> It has been an issue for along time, one which I have been vocal about but not terribly demanding. We just emptied our nest, I've met my paternal obligations, and it's time to for me make a stay or flee decision.
> 
> Yes.


Oh, so this is a serious thing right now, you might bail out of the marriage.

You said yes to the orgasm question, so I'm guessing all 3 applies. Let me ask you this, do you know if she masturbates?

T


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Oh, so this is a serious thing right now, you might bail out of the marriage.
> 
> You said yes to the orgasm question, so I'm guessing all 3 applies. Let me ask you this, do you know if she masturbates?
> 
> T


Yes to the yes.

A qualified no. You can probably count on one hand the number of times since we've been married. She says a couple of times during pregnancy and once after she'd gotten aroused, we'd fought, and I'd left the room. The only reason I know about that is because she mentioned how it hadn't worked then, how it almost never worked before, and that's why she doesn't do it and why she has no interest in my trying. 

According to her, only one thing really works for that purpose, and that's a penis. My understanding of her reluctance to masturbate is not because she finds it dirty or wrong, just pointless.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I've never in my life heard of a woman being adverse to, and uncomfortable during, sex who was an easily orgasmic.

The likelihood unfortunately is that she's faking in order to get you up off of her as quickly as possible.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I've never in my life heard of a woman being adverse to, and uncomfortable during, sex who was an easily orgasmic.
> 
> The likelihood unfortunately is that she's faking in order to get you up off of her as quickly as possible.


Well, never say never, I don't have any special mind reading powers, but she's never been averse to not faking it in the past when it just wasn't going to happen.

Everything I know about her makes be believe that she actually likes sex as long as it's within very tightly controlled boundaries. She has said as much and acts as if this is true. She is typically the initiator in the relationship since I learned long ago that the experience was less than satisfactory if she wasn't in the mood.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Well, never say never, I don't have any special mind reading powers, but she's never been averse to not faking it in the past when it just wasn't going to happen.


This is really interesting. Jaquen's suggestion that she may be faking it seems reasonable, but you're saying that it isn't in her to fake it, do you mean if she isn't going to have an orgasm she will just flat out make it clear it didn't happen?

Can you be a little more clear about orgasmic?

One this is certain, if she doesn't like the touch of her own fingers, then she certainly won't like your touch. The only good news about that is it isn't something you're doing.

But here's what's really important; you're considering leaving her because of this, have you discussed that with here?

T


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> This is really interesting. Jaquen's suggestion that she may be faking it seems reasonable, but you're saying that it isn't in her to fake it, do you mean if she isn't going to have an orgasm she will just flat out make it clear it didn't happen?
> 
> Can you be a little more clear about orgasmic?


She'll just say, "you know, this just isn't happening tonight, so don't wait around for me." I'd say this happens no more than a few percent of the time.



> But here's what's really important; you're considering leaving her because of this, have you discussed that with here?
> 
> T


I expect that conversation this weekend. It will be something along the lines of "We've tried unsuccessfully to fix this on our own in the past. I'm not sure I'm willing to continue like this until time and age have rendered my sexuality dead. Unless something changes, I will be seriously considering moving on. What do you want to do about it?"

I want to leave the possibility of shell-shock being sufficient to create action. I'm open to trying sexual counseling if she is. I'm even willing to allow time and her own efforts to work some improvement if I believe the effort to be genuine, but I will need a timeline when we both agree sufficient progress is being made or it's time to give up. I accept that there may be changes required on my part. I will do whatever is requested, within reason, other than simply sweep it under the rug yet again.

This will, in the end, almost certainly fail. At the end of the day, we'll both know that she's doing things that she finds physically or psychologically "icky". People's tastes rarely change enough to alter that reality.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> This will, in the end, almost certainly fail. At the end of the day, we'll both know that she's doing things that she finds physically or psychologically "icky". People's tastes rarely change enough to alter that reality.


Well, I'm sorry to hear that. If it was me, I would discuss how unusual it is for a woman to enjoy penetration, but absolutely hate external stimulation. There has to be more here, either medical, psychological, I don't know, I'm really floored that she can't pleasure herself, but is otherwise orgasmic.

T


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

In answer to the thread title:

Bestiality
BDSM
Urolagnia
Scat.
3+-somes
Third party
Bukkake
Illegality
Child porn
Watching "Jersey Shore"


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

Well, having read through this thread, it feels to me as if there was, to quote the immortal movie Cool Hand Luke, "a failure to communicate" before the rings were exchanged at the alter to ascertain, at least intellectually, sexual compatibility. And then there was the newlywed flush of things and kids popping out and just the flow of everyday life and yet another tale of a long standing marriage with apparently mismatched sexual partners.
Cletus is not wrong in what he wants but the mrs is not necessarily wrong in what she wants. Just two different realities sharing the same space.
Good luck Cletus.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I am curious about how others think this should apply in a LTR. On one hand, I agree completely that hounding your spouse over something they have declined in not acceptable. On the other hand, I don't think that re-raising a topic after sometime is unreasonable, particularly if circumstances have changed (such as an increased sexual interest by your spouse).


My initial thought is that what constitutes "hounding" is open to interpretation. Also, it matters what the sex act in question is. If my S.O. declines to participate in a three-way, for instance, that should be my cue to leave it alone, forever. OTOH, if my ex is refusing to try new positions or give a BJ, then her effort is probably below what most folks would consider acceptable and letting her slide on the bad sex is not a reasonable expectation.

Nobody should be forced to do anything. At the same time, nobody should be free from natural consequences of bad behavior. And I think that's what this is about - not just hounding but consequences in general.

Whether I choose to initiate frequent discussion, cool off the relationship, end the relationship, or whatever is irrelevant. I will choose whatever I feel is appropriate for the situation. And, most likely, whichever I implement is going to make my partner feel equally bad or angry.

Ultimately, hounding is not necessarily better or worse than any other consequence; you should go with whatever you feel is appropriate given your situation. Consequences for bad behavior are always appropriate. But there is a line between reasonable and unreasonable requests that must be considered when evaluating how to ask (or even whether to ask) and how to respond to a denial.


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## TamedVixen (Dec 6, 2012)

Certainly you are not a cad IMO. What you are asking for is very tame and mainstream. 

My husband and I have a wonderful and fulfilling sex life. We are interested in many of the same acts; anal was tried a few times but neither of us were that turned on by it. 

No requests are unreasonable. It's just the manner in which the requesting spouse handles the response. 

Badgering or bullying a spouse into sexual acts is coercive and demeaning.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

Ideally the two partners will have a safe, supportive, honest relationship that allows sharing wants, needs, desires of a sexual nature. 

There are things I love including that my wife had never considered but she indulges me. There are things she loves that I hadn't considered and I indulge her. I think we both do that because we know it brings pleasure to the other. So far we haven't had something one wants that is off the table for the other. 

Sometimes either one of us will say "not this time" for some activity and the other doesn't push it. But that has not been used as a regular excuse to deny or stop that activity. I think partners have to keep the communication open and if something is just a no-go, get that out there rather than act as if it might be possible but deny it every time it comes up.

I think we are often guilty of jumping to conclusions and making assumptions that we "know" what the other person is feeling or thinking. As close as a couple may be and as perceptive as one is (or thinks he or she is) we can't be inside the other person's head. The communication lines have to stay open and we each have to listen to what our partner is expressing. 

It ain't rocket science but sometimes it feels more difficult than rocket science.


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