# What to do?



## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Ok Ive been in conflict up and down with DW for a year now. 23 years together...me both 46, 12 year old daughter, both professionals, and financially independent of each other.

I spent years after finally learning about my wifes fetish issue trying to accept it and get her to be more open about it and share it. 

Unfortunately despite having a set in stone fetish she is also Low Drive...Im not sure if the shame about the fetish causes the LD or that is just a second truth.

Bottom line...she has tried to share it...and I cant stand it. It creeps me out that she has it..I could get over this..but it also is so damn BORING...its just one specific thing that is totally NOT sexual to me. However, without that she basically has no lust whatsoever.

She goes thought the motions and tries to be nice some of the time. Frequency had been better this year, but Ive always felt something is missing in this relationship due to marginal sex.

We have been through the whole discussion and MC a million times and tried to understand each others perspective etc. For her sex is related to this thing, its not love. For me I equate sex with love.

I find it very difficult to know that according to her ( and Ive really felt this was some sort of excuse for covering up a simple basic lack of attraction) that she cant really get aroused and certainly not go all the way to O's without this other concept.

In addition, she is rarely in the mood to think about this fetish and she generally thinks (despite therapy etc) that its a bad thing etc. 

In addition, I have been very po'd at her and very angry that she did not tell me about this for 13 years despite my trying from early on to solve our sexual problems (at that time no enthusiasm on her part and certainly no O's back then). She does not feel bad about not telling me though. 

Anyway, bottom line is Im 100% bonded to my wife and I feel that I love her (although she is not sure she loves me anymore after 1 year of fighting), but there is a basic desire that I have to want a relationship with decent sex or better than decent! I want it to be good. This basically can't happen because I have to first of all get her to open up about her thing..which is rare and difficult for her and I understand that now I think..but the deep reality for me is that I dont like it! She has also done other things around sex which made me very uncomfortable such as obsessing about movie stars and celebrity guys to what I have thought was an extreme degree...she does not agree cause it did not impact her work etc. But she kept doing that in the past even though I made it clear it was hurting me. She has told me several times that is WHO she is...she likes to fantasize about celebrity men and she needs to think about her fetish in order to climax.

Now she already feels that I dont like her fetish..and Ive said I dont like it cause Im jealous of "it" etc. Because I resent her for having a family with me without telling me about her deeper nature etc..but I have not told the underlying truth that I just find it weird and unsexy and the whole scenario is not conducive to good sex in addition to even get there I have to encourage her to do something I dont even like!

On the other hand I really do love her and I also really do like sex. I dont want to give that up at my age...I even take T shots etc (not to increase drive which was fine, but it helped with mood and weight gain etc). 

So this is just a real dilemma for me because I love her very much for real..but I dont like her sexually when she is honest and she knows it, but I also LIKE SEX and want sex with her.

I guess if she wanted sex and just had to add the fetish in there Id be ok with it..but true sex to her involves this fetish thing. 

She even gets aroused by it if a person accidentally talks about something related (they have no clue of course) it could be a woman even (although Im sure she is not attracted to women)...its the concept not the person.

So I went so many years feeling I was a failure for not arousing her or that she was not truly in love with me etc.

I dont have a social network my family is in distant places and although Im very successful at my work I dont LOVE it in such a way that I would be able to just immerse myself in my work to escape the being alone.

I dont know what one does when they still love someone very very much and are very attracted to them, but at the same time there seems to be a serious incompatibility that makes both people also very unhappy....

Is 1 year of working on it long enough? I'm not getting any younger.

On the other hand, Im NOT looking forward to dating etc...Ive always been shy that way and I was not exactly successful before I met my wife years ago although I did have 3 brief prior partners. My wife had none.

Worst of all we have been working on this for a year and my daughter has been a victim hearing our fighting etc.

Im so obsessed with trying to work things out with my wife that my daughter gets lost in "the shuffle". Maybe if I moved out I would end up spending a lot more time with her...it seems that would be inevitable.

Im not unattractive, but Im not someone that women throw themselves at either...as far as I know. I have been working all year in IC on my own self image...Ive always hated being shorter (5 7) and all kinds of other things I hate about my own body although Im getting better at that...Im in good shape 145 pounds, more working out more muscle taking T etc. All that is good...but I have no confidence with women at all. I have a high status profession and my own business and plenty of $$ and I have all that to offer someone else. I just want to feel that my partner is actually attracted to me. 

I realize that this is a "luxury" that many people either cant afford or will never have for all kinds of reasons...and Ive also gone over the the way of thinking that its ok..its not my fault..my wife has a sort of disability..etc.


Still its very difficult....I still feel totally rejected by my wife since she can not feel any sort of lust for me....according to her because Im not her fetish and that is orgasmic sex to her.

So she feels that no matter what she has done it has not made things better...increasing sex frequency I thought that would do it to..but since its still not enough for me (Id like every day basically) and with no pushing I might have been getting 1x per week which was torture for me for 22 years...until this year maybe her hormones changed a little and she was willing to increase to 2-3 per week..sometimes more if I push for it. Never hardly ever on work days though...

Also my wife does not have to work, but she feels Im unstable (kiss of death in the MMSL book) and she cant depend upon me to take care of her since we have been fighting a year, threatening to divorce each other etc...she truly does like her job anyway and does not want to quit...my point being though that its not like she HAS to go to work so much that she is too exausted for me or that she HAS to do housework! We have help for that.

Now I honestly recognize all the external things she does for me also...groceries, buying Costco type home supplies organizing things etc etc. I realize that I would have to do a lot more for myself also.

In addition, although Im financially successful, Im also easily bored with life (not with her) and since Ive built my business up Ive become tired of it like Im going through the motions to make a living..yea I know that is what most people do...but she seems to think Im a loser because she perceives me as hating life...which I do not...Im just bummed a lot because of my marriage and admittedly I do change hobbies a lot and I am at the moment bored of my otherwise successful job.

Anyway..

How do you decide to separate from someone when you still love them but you find when you actually get to know them that you have some major incompatibility?

How do you get the courage to restart your life basically from scratch with no support network?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Get cancer? Bad joke, but the concept is the same. You see what your future is with your wife. Is this the future you want? We never know how long we have and when you fully come to realize you only get one life, you stop wasting time toying with adapting to unadaptable situations.

You have to come to the point where you know that what you have with your wife will never change. You have to know that deep down, it will not change ever.

Look at the fear of being alone. You say you are bored and you want to feel passion, you want to feel loved and you want to feel passionately loved. Understanding that you will never get this with your W, is being alone that bad? Would it be worth the risk of being alone to find in life what it is that you want?

Your wife is putting you down and making you doubt yourself. Of course she is! If she isn't willing to admit that she is not sexually attracted to you, she has to find a reason why. I don't fully get the fetish thing that prevents your wife from experiencing sex. It sounds like it's not really a fetish, but a hang up. She knows how important this is to you, but she insists you accept it and move on. 

Well you've tried. I've read your other posts and I believe that you have put your all into making this work. From what you describe, it doesn't sound like there is anyway to make it work so you get your needs met and she ges to hang onto her sexual blocks, hang ups and fetish. 

I think you are selling yourself short due to all the years of knowing you weren't pleasing your wife. Like all men, you blamed yourself, your skills, your attraction rank whatever, and you've been doing that for years. I think you may find the dating world terribly tense and difficult to navigate at first. But I hear it is 10 times easier for a man of our age than a woman to find someone to make a connection with. But then again, I'm a woman so those are the stories I hear. 

My brother left his crazy psycho b!tch of a wife, after she decided she liked some other guy better, after 22 yeas of misery trying to make her happy. Within 2 months he had dated several women and found a wonderful fabulous woman. I've posted this story before. He told me, "I can't tell you how wonderful it feels to be with a woman who likes me." He died 3 years later from ALS. 

So, I say, take the chance for happiness, even if it includes a small chance for being alone. You are a decent guy who has done his very best to make his marriage work. Women dig that in men! My bet is you won't be single for long.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

You know, I'll be honest. I read your entire post but nothing sank in because all I kept thinking was --- "What's the fetish????".


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

So you and your wife are sexually incompatible, always will be, and you're seeking information on how to prepare yourself psychologically to leave? 

You just keep reminding yourself of what you know. You start envisioning what things will be like "after." You begin laying the legal groundwork to minimize the costs of divorce. You make a decision that your life without the things she brings to it will be better when you can have the sex life you want.

Or you settle your mind around what you have and decide that it's enough.


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## MissMe (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm with IRishGirl on this one. The hidden fetish kept swirling around in my head. I'm thinking if its so hard to actually tell what it is, it must be a doozy, which would color any advise you were to get here. 

Hey, I did see the show once where this man was in love with his car. As in, according to the car owner, they had a sexual and emotional relationship. oooookkkkkkk


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Well its great to hear from women here. I really appreciate it!

Thanks!

Anon, wow thanks for reading my other diatribes. My first instinct is that I have not been fair describing my wife. She has really tried to please me. I really believe much of the time that she has loved me as much as she can love anyone. There is the rub though...

She also had one "boyfriend" in college who traumatized her when he left her saying he could not love her because they never had sex. I'm not sure much thoughtful went on back then..but the point is that someone else got an asexual feeling from her when she was 21....I just pushed it and tolerated it cause I really felt she was the first person who actually loved me etc...so I tolerated the difficulties from the start feeling I could not do any better and it would get better...and boy I worked on it with her over the years but she was not fully honest with me till late 30's. Starting at age 23 that is a long time for my resentment to build.

Im told that everything I did was wrong and pushy and was trying to push my ideas of sex onto her....well I had to do something since she was doing nothing to figure things out.

I now do believe that the fetish thing is very real...we have discussed it, read about it, got to the sex therapist about it several times etc etc etc. Its like a sexual orientation as far as I have read. I cant understand it myself and its easy for us who dont have these things to have trouble understanding it. There is some discussion about it on the forums about asexual people. It just frames sex differently.

IrishGirl, its sorta an offshoot from S&M. She has discussed it with me a few times even during the act. Its unclear if she likes doing this or does not...Ive heard both things. Basically it makes her feel like a bad person (she is not and would never harm anyone etc) to have the feelings she has. On one side I feel so bad and sorry for her...if only it did not directly play into my own insecurities (which Im starting to get over actually)...it would not be a problem. If only she had not made it a problem in her mind...I mean I have told her I think about all kinds of crazy stuff during sex it does not make me feel BAD about myself at all...and I dont have to externalize it either...but I dont always need THE SAME thing...that is the deep fetish issue. These people need that concept etc to really have a complete sexual experience.

I think its always been more comfortable for her to just be sexual by herself. That also explains the movie star obsessions etc..no need for her to actually be involved. She basically says she felt about me years ago like she does now about her movie star obsessions...its "non sexual" to her or semi-sexual in some ways.

She cant understand why her being more open about her movie star obsessions would not make me happy. She likes to say that is "her" and that is "her sexuality" and that I (her husband) just does not like "her."


She has zero concept of jealousy as far as I can tell.

She says she was mentally confused when she first got together with me to realize that a guy is also has a penis attached to him.

She says she has never masturbated to movie stars or had success with O's thinking about them..only her fetish concept.

Kathy,

Thanks very much. Ive been trying to do those things for a year. In the mean time we have been closer than ever sometimes working these things out and also in more conflict than ever.

Its like this year I learned what life could be like..from her...although she was getting off on her movie star thing (which she denies she says she was loving me)...I liked how I was getting approached for intimacy by her for once...I was really happy and I really basically fell in love with her over that...

then I realized that if the movie star stuff went out the window..so did the extra affection....she says its like her porn I think...

I tried to indulge that interest of hers also this year...but eventually it finally made me uncomfortable to watch movies with her where she was drooling over the actors even if it did lead to sex for me later...it just seemed over the top to me and made me uncomfortable.

I guess any woman who actually has a sexuality at all is going to be attracted to other men. But you would think a person would at least care to not actively do something that is making their spouse jealous and uncomfortable.

Im attracted to other women but I keep it to myself and dont let it go too far in my mind (at least I didnt in the past) because I thought Im married and that is the end of that....

Anyway..Im sure if you all heard her side of it you would side with her lol....

its all perspective i think.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

There was also the wife who posted about her husband having a fetish for feet pumping the pedals of a car. 



> How do you get the courage to restart your life basically from scratch with no support network?


You do it one step at a time. It won't be easy or simple, but it will be worth it because this is your _life_. You don't get another chance to live your life - this is it. Think about whether this is "enough" for you or if you want more out of life than is possible with your wife.

Everything else will follow, and will gain momentum, from your decision. Take the first step, and then the next and so on. You'll find that you are stronger than you think, and you'll find that you will become a different person that is FREE to rebuild your life in the way you want it.

Develop a vision of what you want your life to be and hold onto that vision when you feel weak and falter. That is your holy grail - your life the way you want it. Break down the steps it takes for you to get there, and take action, step by step, to make it happen.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> but I dont always need THE SAME thing...that is the deep fetish issue. These people need that concept etc to really have a complete sexual experience.


I would say that even when her fetish is indulged, it may not be a "complete" sexual experience for her. I believe that it's sort of like an attraction. You might be drawn to women with a certain "look" like red hair, green eyes, and long legs. But when you meet a brunette with a knockout personality, you'd also be capable of adapting your outlook to see "that" look as equally desirable. If you couldn't, and you could ONLY enjoy yourself with tall gingers that had green eyes, your life could be severely restricted as you look for a marriage partner _even if you don't recognize it._

Her fetish is a bit like obsessive-compulsive disorder in this respect. Have either of you spoken with a professional counselor (preferably one that's focused on sexuality issues) about any of this? 

Meanwhile, you said you've been trying to detach for the last year, and you're pretty conflicted about it because you still have a great deal of love and tenderness between you. I'd hate to think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater if you haven't gotten some professional help since it sounds like you have so many other good things in your marriage.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Kathy,

Yes we have gone to a woman therapist (and I still see her for IC for almost a year now practically every week for a while cause I was really a mess for a lot of time) once 9 years ago and then several times this year. This therapist calls herself a sexologist and sees people with sexual issues (but not criminals apparently..I asked...she refuses to do that).

My wife also suffered from depression for years (I thought I did too but I dont think so anymore) and takes antidepressant Effexor for years..(which is supposedly not sex drive supressing and Ive heard it revs some people up)...I dealt with her wanting to commit suicide for years..but that has been a non-issue for about 10 years except once this year...

She comforted herself with somewhat compulsive shopping (which she can afford) and also watching her movies. trying to feel better I understand.

But anyway...I actually was settling for years with the concept that she had a LD and that was it.

However, when she got all hot and bothered a year ago after her latest movie star obsession turned sexual..and she basically told me she now suddenly found me sexually interesting....more than she had ever before in 23 years....I thought it was hormones due to mid 40's changes..(although she seems no where near meno)
..
.but it really seemed like her obsession was just rubbing off on me...I know I was over the top worrying about this....but it hurt me and I think she should have recognized that....

At the time I told her someone had said...what is more important..some cheap thrills or your marriage...she said that was way to simplistic....and that I had encouraged her obsession (yes I did want her to watch the movies EARLY ON once I realized it aroused her..I really tried to go with it...but I never understood the level of obsession or that she would search the internet for more info about this guy...stash DVD's around..etc....it seemed like some kind of love to me and I didnt like it...she even admitted it went too far and over the top. But she does not think it was wrong and does not understand why I could not see it as a "fun" thing and that other guys would have not cared and seen it as a good thing...that may or may not be true....you had to be there and see the body language....she was practically drooling. It made me nauseated once. It still bothers me to think about it. So I really lost it at that time. 

and I got very very upset about that..too upset...after we had been figting about it for a couple months and I made it clear I didnt like it I found a cache of these movie DVD's and I got very upset and verbally threw her out of the house for two days....basically it was stay and be subjected to my verbal abuse or leave..and I told her to leave and she finally did. She must have felt something was wrong on her end cause she did not have to leave....its her house too and she could have called the cops on me....anyway..

I basically reacted like she was having an affair...I read about the stages of grief that people go through when their spouse cheats and its EXACTLY what emotionally happened to me..

then I tried to work it all out...told her we could watch the movies again...took her to a new one....(which did lead to good sex) ....BUT I HATED IT THE WHOLE TIME....it was not exactly a test...but I wanted to see if she would get the feeling back again..she sorta did 50/50. 

The reason was that I felt like IF someone else (which she says its not a someone...just a fantasy..) could make her feel proactivly lustful..but I did not...then there was a problem. I wanted her to just admit that she was not attracted to me sexually ever and she lied to me about our marriage basically. She refused to admit that ever and claims its not true and that Im crazy and hurtful for thinking and saying that....she says its just the orgasmic part of sex that she needs the fetish for...

She says that almost nothing arouses her...and I believe it...when she came home from work once this year aroused cause a woman inadvertantly talked about her issue (cause its NOT sexual)....I was happy that she shared it with me...but oh so confused? Was it all fake? 

Its all so strange now for both of us...I dont think she can enjoy it anyway now so many thoughts go through her mind about what Im thinking etc....terrible. Im more simple than that..

She said I had it all wrong...did not understand her celebrity obsessions..did not understand her feelings for me....anyway we talked about this a million times..sex not important to her as it is to me..not required for the relationship but she does it for me..etc etc...I've heard that from other guys about their wives (and visa versa)..she would be ok if there was no sex in the relationship except that she would know something must be wrong cause that is not something I have ever accepted before...

Once I said that during our marriage I have had enough passion for both of us...she agreed and identified with that.

But she was trying and I knew she was not fully truthful about finding sex unimportant because sometimes she wanted to do it...but Ive always felt mostly she did it for me...or she was occasionally in the mood....the old once ever couple weeks thing...

She even rarely asked me to do it with her to be close. That was promising...but its too rare.

But she did it a lot cause I wanted to..and she has tried to be nice about it and get into it...but it had been very disjointed...she would not even try to orgasm and I determined that there are really two types of sex for her...the going through the motions relationship type ... which if she is in the mood could involve some passion...but no desire for orgasm on her part....and no problem for her that she did not...she claims its not required..and I understand that is true of some women...fine.

But its knowing that she CAN become highly aroused (when she gets an obsession for a while on a movie star that works for arousal..and then gets fetish in her mind she will do herself while we have sex and that works for her...)....it makes me feel like Im really missing out and have missed out most of my life with her. She actually was the one who woke me up by showing me what I was missing....

There is no question that this fetish concept (which involves a fantasy of inflicting a mild sort of pain on someone else..man or woman..etc....due to tightening of teeth braces...I guess it must have been related to her sexual development at that age when she had braces and her families sexual repression....she claims her parents never had sex....since then we have heard they used to take trips to Las Vegas specifically for sex..she wont believe it)...

She does not want to act this out and does not want me to act this out. She says its VERY specific....ONLY that exact thought works...the tightening of teeth braces and the resultant soreness that occurs a day later...that is IT>>>! UGH. I really tried to get into it..but COME ON???!! 

Its not THAT specifically that is the end of it for me. Its the part about sex not being important to her...(although she claims to have been enjoying it more this year)....and somehow sex intimacy is disjointed from love intimacy for her....its the part about the movie star obessions over the years....many many of them....its the part about not understanding WHY this would bother me..its the part about being a bit of a workaholic...its the part about generally me not FEELING NEEDED OR WANTED! I think Im wrong on this and I could get over it...but something keeps coming up and messing things up when they settle down.

Its almost always ME.but I would blame her for hurting me in some way....that is why I wrote this..cause I now realize that its me....she does not think I love her...but I do..but I also dont like WHO she is....in the sexual way anyway.

She claims to love me (except this week she says she hates me after I told her the reality that I am trying to settle..which Im sure hurt her a lot and she says made her want to give up after a whole year of fighting now)...and she claims Im wrong and that she has always been attracted to me. She certainly had always said things over the years like she is proud to go to parties with me etc.

She claims to not find REAL men sexy....she claims her movie star obsessions are not sexual....but they obviously are and have made her feel sexual....so I think there is some real developmental mess up in her whole man-woman love/sex system.

In the other hand...its something IVE ALWAYS WANTED I think it to feel wanted...

I know many people are not ever wanted....its a luxury....so I feel also like Im grapsing for straws here...

But its difficult to live with her...have her sleep naked next to me all the time...and have sex with her...but also have this feeling...

She is not shy about nakedness or anything like that and not prudish..she has been willing to indulge some low level kinky things Ive wanted over the years.

She had been trying to increase the sex frequency this year on my demands...I had told her earlier that once a week was not going to do it and that would be a non-starter for me..(now Im not sure I even want her anymore)....but we had more sex this year than ever in the past and it was occasionally ok..usually after seeing a movie with an actor she liked..but sometimes not...she had also started initiating once in a while...

But the quality was missing for me...its often (not always....if she is thinking about her fetish or a movie was watched then it can go longer)...but its often too slow for her...which is of course very hurtful...

Unlike what people say about women liking "slow sex" etc...I like THAT! she gets tired of it, worries about loosing her lube...etc.

I always felt that she had ability to be aroused physically but she would not have orgasms....I never knew why until this fetish thing was revealed...I wish she would have just thought about it..had better sex...but never felt bad about it and never needed to tell me cause I would have never known if there was not obvious sexual dysfunction.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Also I wanted to add that my ambivalence has been going on all year...at first it was me feeling that she was not really attracted to me and wanting to leave for that reason...but she denied it so much and increased the sex frequency to try to prove it to me etc...

But NOW Im ambivalent about how I feel about her and I KNOW that I want someone else (no one that I have been seeing or even hinted that Im interested in..although there is a person Im interested in in a fantasy way and I have no indication that she is interested in me..)...

Im 100% not a person who would EVER consider an affair. I think its evil and wrong and a sign of a weak loser..

But the point is Ive been seriously fantasizing myself about an alternate life. I did not really do this so much in the past although I did use porn mostly prior to this year cause I felt so loney and unsatisfied by my wife...I was never addicted to it..just felt like a a sad and lonely thing to me...I also think its bad because I started to obsess about seeing my wife with another guy and I think I actually have ZERO desire for this to happen...I think its a side effect of watching porn.

I went through this a couple years ago where I would wake up in the night and obsess about how I could not stand life anymore unless I could see this happen...basically I was feeling desperate to satisfy my wife (who does not even care about being satisfied haha) and I thought maybe another man would do that...(even though she has never expressed anything but disgust about that idea...as you would expect cause only that other thing arouses her anyway)...

But I think that was absolutely a side effect of watching porn. Maybe also just a built in sex drive thing that a lot of guys have cuckold fantasies...it just leads to super rev up of feelings...but also a result of being desperate to see her satisfied. Ive seen her satisfied now and its not such a big deal to me and I barely watch any porn at all (she does NOT care if I do or not...does not bother her one bit but she has zero interest in it)...


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I find myself wondering whether she had her first sexual feelings when she was in the orthodontics chair or if she might even have been sexually abused there. 

She clearly has disconnected from sex as a loving act and sees sex instead as a way to exert power or be subjected to it. 

However, once a week is not exactly a sexless marriage, either. Obviously, you're not happy with it, in large part because of the quality of it. 

Her obsession with the movie stars is strange to me. I don't know that I'm really understanding what you've said very well, but I am getting the impression that it's a "drug of choice" for an obsessive-compulsive disorder of some type. 

So you want to the counselor. Did she? Will she?


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Yes we also went together several times. years ago and this year. It was usually horrible but we still made some progress..she also went alone for a while but she have up 6 months ago after about 3 months of it.

We had been having sex much more frequently than once a week this last year..usually all year since the latest obsession it was 2-5 times a week .. I know sounds good. It was good sometimes...that is clearly TOO MUCH for her though..but she was doing it. I can't believe she is totally unattracted to me if she was willing to do it that much. (although once in a while saying no and once in a while expressing exasperation about doing it 2 times in a day or just boredom or obvious disinterest...etc...mostly trying to be nice about it...about 1/10 times maybe getting into it herself).

However, right now she basically hates me according to her...I think for giving up and for still having problems accepting her after a whole year of her trying.

Its the quality.... although once a day would be nice for me! Especially now that Im on Test replacement my drive has ALWAYS been high though....I could do 6-8 times a week that would make me fairly happy! I guess I need a NEW relationship for a woman to be willing to do that hahaha...although Ive heard it can happen I guess for most women its rare.

I realize I may never get that from any woman..although my two closest friends happen to have high drive ladies they are with...one is so high drive due to severe insecurity and she yells at my friend if he does not do it 2-3x every day.

Anyway..its really about quality, getting along, sharing interests, FEELING WANTED is the #1 thing I think.

We are still together as of tonight. I have told her all week I love her even if she does not love me.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> ...Ive always hated being shorter (5 7) and all kinds of other things I hate about my own body


This self-loathing is the problem, not your height or other physical features. You are taller than Napoleon, and that didn't stop him from conquering half the civilized world.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

I absolutely agree. 

Its not easy to get rid of negative self talk.....I try very very hard to emphasize all my positive physical features to myself...in shape...healthy...decent looking...not a bad dresser..etc.

But all the negative stuff is always there and therapy has not helped...its always been there since I was a teen...I try to do positive self talk it helps a bit..but its hard to get rid of all that self doubt. Mostly it revolves around all types of reasons I might not be attractive to the opposite sex....even though I KNOW LACK OF CONFIDENCE is the #1 least attractive thing and the ultimate turn off and will haunt me the rest of my life.

Makes is that much harder to convince myself to leave her....I'm very unsure Ill be attractive to anyone else....afraid of rejection etc....

I realize its all in my head. Im healthy, successful, intelligent, certainly not ugly, GOOD ENOUGH...just not movie star good looks that draw people in.....normal should be good enough and for my age I may be better than normal.

there that sounds better!

If anything though this last year has helped me to realize my major self esteem issues that were suppressed and deal with them since reality says I may need to do so. 

So I got in shape this year, shaved my head, got better fitting clothes, put a little invisible lift in my shoes (for me it raised my confidence when in public), went to the antiaging doc for the hormone stuff..all that. Its all helped.

However, lower T level sometimes seems nice if sex drive was lower...when it was lower occasionally I would go almost a whole week without caring about sex....that does not happen anymore!


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am totally confused. A fetish, by definition, is an object or non-genital body part that elictis a habitual erotic response. What exactly is her fetish? To have fantasies or lust for others is not a fetish. You have me entirely confused on this point.

You have stated to be desired by your partner is a luxury. WRONG! It is a requirement for most people and if you accept anything less, then it is a *choice* YOU make. Your wife's ascertion that her sexual issues are just "her" and you have to live with it are also not true. You just have to decide what you will tolerate and what you will not.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

KanDo..

Sorry for the confusion...there are TWO things actually according to her separate..

(1) Celebrity infatuation/crush/worship...has been at least 10 of them over the years....she gets tired of them after a while...it was never a huge big deal for me..just a little irritating..until it became so sexual...she claims it was often not sexual and she does not know why..she said she did it since a child...kinda like a grown woman having a Justin Beeber crush or something..but there are older actors...she also says she used to keep lists of cute boys in school things like that....she never dated except once in college and was virgin at age 23 when we got together. She does not see any reason this would bother me...I guess I almost agree and I have tried to not worry about it..and Im not too worried about it anymore anyway...and she does not seem to be doing it anymore.

(2) Fetish required to orgasm must think about situation where there is teeth braces related pain in someone else's mouth...highly specific..cant orgasm without it. Does not relate or interact with (1) as far as I can tell. Although the fetish thought alone wil arouse her. 

The actor thing is more like a childish thing or just fantasy stuff. Its something Im sure that became overblown in my head to the point I started thinking I was losing her and it was an affair.

She says its more like her porn (but she cant get anywhere masturbating to fantasies of these men according to her..she likes to say its a non-sexual crush...makes zero sense to me)..


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

KanDo said:


> You have stated to be desired by your partner is a luxury. WRONG! It is a requirement for most people and if you accept anything less, then it is a *choice* YOU make. Your wife's ascertion that her sexual issues are just "her" and you have to live with it are also not true. You just have to decide what you will tolerate and what you will not.


KanDO,

Well most people are not that attractive ha ha...not everyone is going to be that attractive sexually to anyone else..especially someone that they are also attracted to? Or is my thinking on that messed up? Maybe no one will ever feel that way about me...so what? Its something Im sure most people want but a lot of people never experience or only get briefly....

that is what I meant by luxury..not everyone is the object of someone else's desire...unfortunately.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> So I got in shape this year, shaved my head, got better fitting clothes, put a little invisible lift in my shoes (for me it raised my confidence when in public), went to the antiaging doc for the hormone stuff..all that. Its all helped.


Excellent. 

What people know you for is what you can do.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

OP, your wife is a clear cut case for Dr. Freud.

I wonder if she has had the right treatment for such a heavy mental aberration.

Did you inform yourself about the nature of this??


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> OP, your wife is a clear cut case for Dr. Freud.
> 
> I wonder if she has had the right treatment for such a heavy mental aberration.
> 
> Did you inform yourself about the nature of this??


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

apparently these types of things are not "curable" in my research. anyway she 
Does not want to be "cured"...it's all a matter of perspective. It's more an issue 
Of managing it to make ones life functional. I think for some people supressing
Their sexuality is a way of managing fetish issues. Mostly she did this...if I did
Not care it would never be an issue and not something that would have ever come
Up perhaps...who knows
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm sure she would be an excellent wife for someone who was less sensitive.

that might still end up being me....I'm getting desensitized over time.

the question is for me do I give up on romantic ideas now at age 46 And anyway am 
I worried about the wrong things? externalizing my own problems and blaming her?

that is what she thinks. 

still I think it's very unfair of her to expect me to just accept and like her sexuality
When she kept the true nature of it hidden from me.... I'm not going to feel bad anymore
About my own reactions to it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> the question is for me do I give up on romantic ideas now at age 46
> 
> 
> And anyway am I worried about the wrong things? externalizing my own problems and blaming her?
> ...


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

See... thank you.

She is not blaming me. She just wants me to be nice to her..understandable. 

I am absolutely calming down internally (I partially attribute this to my increased Testosterone level and lowered Estrogen level from the Anti-aging/hormone therapy....especially within days of starting the anti-estrogen therapy I felt dramatically more emotionally stable and less vulnerable and more "tough").

She knows its her..she calls it her "defect" and she realizes it and is concerned that we are not compatible if I cant accept it.

I have lied to myself and tried to like it. Since on top of everything (or because of or associated with it) she is Grey/A asexuality..well what's to like?

Its not like she is begging me to participate in kinky stuff with her.

Its more that I have tried to get her to open up..but when she has done so (after many years) I react badly and Im in denial about my reactions. Basically it becomes clear to me that its not ME that excites her....that has been tough on my ego and my sense of self worth.

Im working on it...and Im constantly trying to figure out...is it that I want her..love her..and want to spend my life with her...OR is it that Im afraid to move on...

Right now Im feeling Im afraid to move on...afraid to be alone..afraid to end up with no sex for some period of time (?forever?)...

There is absolutely no "cure" for this just like there is no "cure" for being gay. 

Also, I now and starting to actually believe she generally has always been attracted to me romantically and as sexual as she can get, but in her brain that does not translate its desiring sex most of the time... Similar to the movie star obsessions where she does not desire sex with the celeb....

Only under specific circumstances does she actually desire sex (that is part of the definition of Gray/A asexuality spectrum).

There was one time when a pair of new very very expensive 5 inch heel shoes also seemed to get her into a very sexual mood.

Its always about something OUTSIDE of me outside of the two of us. A celebrity, her fetish idea, perhaps the shoes....? 

Anyway so what I think..so many men would be happy to just have their wives offer up as much sex or at least agree to it as much as my wife does...

When I forget about it I start to believe she is attracted to me sexually.....something usually comes up to remind me....she gets tired of it when I'm really into it and feeling oh so loving and romantic..kissing etc...after a while she will just blurt out that she is wanting to get up and go to dinner or go sew something or is tired.., or she can't keep up with my desire, she goes weeks without any Orgasm, things like that always pop in to remind me there is a problem. 

We might be watching a movie and I become very desirous of her and its never spontaneously reciprocated. No spontaneous desire on her part EVER. She mostly approaches me in specific circumstances..like in bed Sunday morning she knows we normally have sex...so when she is ready to get up she usually initiates it. I think its cause she is ready to get out of bed, wants to avoid me being upset all day, so she initiates it to get it over with....

For a while she started having O's every Sunday am (using her own hand while we do it..which I understand is totally common and normal and is not an issue at all for me..I think its good)...but lately too much negative talk and she stopped that and just does it for me.

I want to compromise....some days I feel like I can....

She does want to compromise..and why wouldn't she? Well Im sometimes pretty nasty or I try to ignore her her these days...even when I try very hard not to be......Im tired of being hurt and I want to disconnect....(of course I want cake too so I still expect sex).

I expect if we ever totally stop having sex or it dwindles to less that a couple times a week that will be the end for me and Ill see a lawyer and/or move out.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello, 

Thank you for sharing your story. It's quite fascinating and goes to show how diverse sexuality can be.

As far as understanding your wife's fetish. When our sexuality develops there is a process of imprinting most powerful around our very first sexual experiences. Similar in nature to baby ducks as they hatch the first being they see is imprinted as their mother and they follow her. Our sexual development has some imprinting characteristics and through coincidence there is a surprising range of items, feelings, situations and emotions that our sexual desires get imprinted to. 

If I understood correctly she imprinted on tooth pain caused by dentures. Amazing yes, rare also but possible. 

Now if I understood correctly part of the problem is that you think this fetish is quite frankly boring and or defective. Understandable. 

Logic would say that there are two main ways to address the issue. Acceptance or modification. 

I would suggest that modification is less likely as imprinting can be very powerful and very deep. It would almost certainly require the help of a specialist with perhaps tools like hypnosis or more experimentally Neuro Lingvistic Programming.

Acceptance would be more attainable. This would involve an improved acceptance of her sexual nature for both you and her. To that end I would suggest that seeking out and talking to people in similar situations would be a great help. You and her would likely be surprised at the amount of people with rare fetishes and by talking to them, connecting with them and listening to their stories several advantages could come. 

You both could emotionally realize the diversity of sexuality and would look at her fetish as something human and more normal rather than defective. Other people's stories could include useful strategies for you to increase your sexual satisfaction. Finally a deeper understanding of her desires would cement the realization that you are not to blame for not arousing her and would help with your feelings of resentment.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> See... thank you.
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no "cure" for this just like there is no "cure" for being gay.
> ...


Yes, you're right that it's not a "cure" thing. There's not anything "wrong" with her. Extremely different and outside the norm, yes, but we ALL have certain triggers for our sexual desire, whatever they may be. 

You say that you get bothered because her triggers are always about something outside of you. Here's the thing: our brain is our primary sexual organ. You can be with the hottest partner it town, having a fabulous time, and BANG! Suddenly a single thought can kill the mood. Or you can come across someone who's not at all attractive physically, but something about the mood, the conversation, or the lighting trips a thought that revs up your desire. 

I'm speculating here, but I wonder if your wife would be able to find a way to make you part of that fantasy. If she did, it could lead to her perceiving you as a trigger, too. I get it that you don't want to engage in it necessarily, but you could maybe develop a couple of phrases you could whisper to her as "dirty talk" that ties yourself in with that fantasy. "I'm going to F you so hard your teeth will scream for mercy!" type of stuff.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Yea have tried things like that. In the past it made her uncomfortable and she said it didnt "work" for her.

Im a bit past that now anyway for the moment anyway...things can change....

She has talked to me about it during the deed and I like to think Im open minded and pretend to myself I like it..but I usually flip out the next day about something....she noticed the pattern a while back...

I was in denial...but she is right...something upset me...lack of feeling connected...something strange feeling about that type of sex....

I cant get what I want cause I have such mixed feelings.

I have told her I have mixed feelings about her thing just like she does...she expects me to be sexually open and free thinking and comfortable while she is not....

I try to ask her to give me some leeway to process also....but its hard when she is already uncomfortable with herself and she seems to be low drive anyway...so default is to avoid her sexuality...

I have absolutely not helped this.


..I did try going down that road in several ways for years (talk about her thing etc) but I was told I was doing it wrong...and I had a hard time listening to the "right way" by that time.

Only in the last few weeks have I come to the point where I actually dont want sex with her much of the time...I do want sex badly..but the thought of it with her is a mild turn off...until I cant take it anymore......that was always beyond rare...

Now its common for me to desire it, but then think twice and not do anything about it...its not that Ill always get rejected....80% of the time Im not rejected per se....

But I don't want to deal with the possibility, I don't want to deal with her borderline enthusiasm..

Its strange for me being a person who has always liked sex....

I just do it with her now cause I feel I have to do it for myself for the physical relief.....and cause I feel like Im missing something if I dont do it with her..

On the one hand I want things to work and I tell her I love her forever and all that...but then internally I have this fantasy life where Im away from her...

I try to imagine my life alone..not living with her and my daughter in the same house...

It seems very lonely...I try to imagine myself in a nice place of course...perhaps walking distance to beach....nice things etc....

But I have very few friends.....(just one guy who I confide in locally who is divorced and keeps telling me to separate)....and the few I have are often busy with life...

Very difficult to walk away....she is also a successful earner and all that and who knows what else I will find....could be a horror show...

How would I feel about getting married again someday...? Not safe.

I dont mind supporting someone else....I think...I wonder what that would feel like....

Bad me I like the idea of control at this point!


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

I still need to write about this. 

I can't get the motivation to leave. I'm frustrated from not enough sex (course I always have been since anything less than daily is not usually enough for me.....wife is once maybe twice a week even when we are getting along well)....

I'm afraid of ending up with zero sex....even though I have felt uncomfortable the last few times we have done it...I still would rather have some sex that none. My wife is likely the type of person who will not want to live in separate houses and still meet for sex for obvious reasons that she does not usually desire it anyway.

I'm afraid no one else will be attracted to me...at least no one else that I am also attracted to...I dont think Im THAT picky...Im not obsessed with beauty or anything although I have to admit reality that younger is attractive to me.

Im afraid of coming home to an empty space...of having nothing to do over a weekend....(of course that is how it is anyway).

In some ways indulging and fighting about my wifes sexual issues has been the most interesting and exciting time in my life. 

All that is over now, including the fighting, seeing her excited is over.

I cant tell is all this just my excuse to get out of the marriage for a potentially (but hardly guaranteed) more exciting life...am I waiting for some woman to make my life more interesting and exciting...

I realize that is not the way it works..I have to make my own life....Im not going to be a very interesting man if I am hanging on to some woman for her to entertain me.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

I feel totally paralyzed and I see my life ticking away and the relationship with my wife is becoming empty for me...(Im sure for her too)...I cant even watch movies with her anymore since that is how she got all her celebrity obsessions I cant follow the movie for thinking about her potential new obsession with the characters. Stupid I know...so I watch movies alone.

Ugh but its so clear to me that I still love her...I dont like her at all.....I dont really like the things she likes...(some of them Im neutral about)...I cant stand hearing her talk sometimes.....she made the point that I dont love her although I say I do...that Im bonded to her, but I dont love her.

I FEEL love though...I FEEL sexual attraction for her much of the time, and desire to be with her some of the time (but I think this is just my baseline state of sex drive?)...I wake up in the night and kiss her and say I love her..(while she is asleep and Im half asleep)....

I like her as a PERSON..she is great at her job...very responsible...organized....tries to be the best mother she can be to our irritating 12 year old hostile child.....she has TRIED to please me within her limits offering up sex to me several times a week (until recently) must have been hard for her if she has limited attraction...so she must LOVE me and be bonded to me...

But I dont LIKE her because I want to FEEL WANTED from a mate, I want to feel respected, I want to feel like my mate gets at least some satisfaction just from being with me....

I think a person who treated me that way and felt that way about me would help me help myself.

Im trying to be "a man" about all this...Im just not confident I will ever find anyone who feels strongly about me. 

My wife was the only woman that really picked me (the others I picked and hung on to..several who who not really attracted to me period..probably due to my clingy behavior years ago)...

My entire experience with other females "picking me" is as follows going backwards...

(1) an office clerk young girl who I drove home innocently one day in 1998 asked me to come over to her apartment for dinner and not include my wife... I felt zero interest although in retrospect she was attractive I was in love with my wife end of story..

(2) When I was about 20 some young woman started kissing me while I was asleep on a bus when a flight was cancelled....for whatever reason I did not find her attractive.....cant understand why not...

(3) when I was a teen and sleeping at a friends house his sister (somewhat homely) started kissing me while I was asleep...another stranger to me!

(4) In college a one night stand who gave me crabs and when I told her about that she basically implied to me I was sexually inadequate compared to what she has heard about my friends...I assumed she was talking about my size I guess.....(which I know is normal)

(5) A GF in college who I slept with a few times and who was really fun in bed (much better than my wife has ever been) but never was in love with me at all.....she finally told me to leave her alone and that she did not love me.....although unlike with my wife...when we were actually in bed together sex drive was not a problem with her..I think had no orgasm problem..she actually told me something I have never forgot and Im glad I have it to lean on in a way... "Im aroused by you, but Im not attracted to you or in love with you.." I guess she meant physically since she was a sexual person. I was in love with her she was not in love with me.

(6) My first in HS who was a run around rich girl who had many many BF's. She was also very hot in bed unlike my wife....wanted to describe her orgasms to me...at that time I did not see it as a big deal and basically ignored that! Now Id like to hear my wife talk about that...I was in love with her she was not in love with me.

(7) Another girl in HS who I "orbited" forever who was never attracted enough to me to sleep with me....she even said she felt she "should be" attracted to me but she was not. I was not a bad boy and she ended up having sex when she was 16 with the HS football coach...at least that is what she told me.....that upset me but it took me a couple years to finally give up on her......

(8) A girl in HS who was a bit of a TomBoy was a champion cross country runner...not too good looking to me....who liked me a lot but I was not attracted to her and I apparently hurt her feelings by not wanting to be her BF after we made out one time.

I think Ive always been attracted to women that are not attracted to me......apparently something to do with my mom abandoning me when I was 4. We get along ok now...she could not be around my dad as she had a very weak personality and he was very powerful and strong and did not want her around and she was a drunk at that time.

So I think now Im NOT obsessed with being attracted to women that are not attracted to me.....I swear my wife is not attracted to me and she swears she is and claims that initiating sex once a week proves it.....but I dont FEEL it from her....not like she is attracted to her movie stars obsessions....Ive seen her in that state and Ive never been the recipient of that kind of affection from her.

Im so afraid of being alone so I cling on to this woman who I also want to leave, replace, better......Im afraid of out of the frying pan into the fire...or into nothingness....


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Only you can decide whether you want to spend the rest of your life with her. But I can tell you that living in limbo is far worse than making a decision one way or the other.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

You should work on your confidence and self esteem. While not horrible, your wife's preferences are never going to result in a healthy relationship and have distorted your perception of what's normal. Anyone would get tired of this and most would have run at the first glimpse. At your age there are plenty of available healthy women. They all have some relationship baggage, but most enjoy normal stuff.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Only you can decide whether you want to spend the rest of your life with her. But I can tell you that living in limbo is far worse than making a decision one way or the other.


Thanks...Ive been sitting with this ambivalence for nearly a year now ever since I started to feel that she had never been very sexually attracted to me. Basically when she said "sex is not an important part of my life" to me 3 years ago I brushed it off, but after seeing her get so sexual in the throes of her actor fantasy I could not brush it off anymore....I just felt the obvious was it was ME that did not inspire her. I had thought that in the past..but let it go in the past. I had always been sexually frustrated with this once a week thing..although I see from reading here that was not that bad! I guess that is what I thought on one level all those years....it was , as my therapist says "good enough".

There are just too many reasons to stay... 

.....and the only reason to go is to hope that living alone will take away my feelings of hurt from my feelings of being undesired by her, and that there is at least a chance of someone else coming along. 

I cant shake the feeling that my reasons to want to go are not legit.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

fetishwife said:


> Thanks...Ive been sitting with this ambivalence for nearly a year now ever since I started to feel that she had never been very sexually attracted to me. Basically when she said "sex is not an important part of my life" to me 3 years ago I brushed it off, but after seeing her get so sexual in the throes of her actor fantasy I could not brush it off anymore....I just felt the obvious was it was ME that did not inspire her. I had thought that in the past..but let it go in the past. I had always been sexually frustrated with this once a week thing..although I see from reading here that was not that bad! I guess that is what I thought on one level all those years....it was , as my therapist says "good enough".
> 
> There are just too many reasons to stay...
> 
> ...


Yes, there are definitely people here who would be thrilled beyond belief to have sex once a week. However, that doesn't help you.

I spent several years in limbo before deciding to get out (he cheated) and once I made the decision I felt far better than I had in years. But actually getting to the point of making that decision was hard. Very. Not something I wish on anyone. 

Eventually something will tip it one way or the other for you. Or, like some, you will push that decision off and that will itself become a decision.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> You should work on your confidence and self esteem. While not horrible, your wife's preferences are never going to result in a healthy relationship and have distorted your perception of what's normal. Anyone would get tired of this and most would have run at the first glimpse. At your age there are plenty of available healthy women. They all have some relationship baggage, but most enjoy normal stuff.


Thank you!

I have been in IC on and off over the years...this whole last 10 months...Ive done as much as possible on self confidence as Ive said..made a lot of changes...but it seems impossible to just "become confident"....what I NEED to become confident is for experience some women to actually like me! 

That seems very immature and petty though and against everything about self esteem coming from inside etc etc etc......I cant RELY on some random women for my self esteem....but its hard to self affirm that you are attractive to yourself. 

My wife does not WANT me to participate in anything I dont want to do with her, nor does she pressure me. 

I pressured myself to indulge her because I WANTED to experience her sexuality I like THAT part of it..but not the way she go there....but basically the pressure to myself was that was my only option...

At this point I think she would prefer I never speak of her interests again..she is so uncomfortable about it at this point....(although always has been).

But the flip side is that IS her sexuality..so I get some sex but no spark...maybe a little...but my mind is poisoned now...knowing how she CAN be.

Oh she will do it, and even be nice about it much of the time when she is willing to do it without seeming "put out"....but I know there is no real passion on her side....at its best when her other interests were not in her mind sex was a friendly thing she was doing for me. For most guys perhaps that would be more than good. Its all relative.

I feel very petty now about this...

Every time this year I have tried to get over it, I end up dissappointing her by getting upset in some way getting mean or whatever cause I feel so unsatisfied.

There are many many people who will never be desired even once in their lives.....

I cant help thinking that my desires for relationship are simply not realistic...not "enlightened" and based upon my human male desire to spread my seed around as I find my wife is no longer fertile. Stepping back I see that this is evolution built in stuff...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

fetishwife...This is very odd, because your story is very specific, but I know a man who had a very similar story to yours. I know he isn't you, but the basics of the story are the same, including length of time married and this extreme, need-it-to-get-off-nothing-else-works type of fetish thingy. Also, all the things you are saying about how you feel, he was saying when he was in your shoes. He deliberated for a long time - decades, literally - over deciding to stay and try to endure, or leave and seek other happiness in another life.

Do you want to know how his story ends?

I have to tell you because I got you this far, but...well, it is pretty sad, in some ways.

He did leave. And it turned out that his wife wasn't that into him. After they finally went their separate ways, she admitted this to him finally. I think the fetish thingy was totally real for her, but she ALSO wasn't sexually attracted to him and wasn't ever able to admit this, regardless of years of counseling, talks, etc. 

He actually wasn't that into her either, though. Which is something he could only really face up to after they split up.

They could finally both now admit, the lack of mutual sexual attraction was simply unfixable.

So fast forward, separation, custody, lawyers, divorce, tears, more counseling, time passes, etc....

He is now out there and dating, and has found that he is happy to have the chance for love and good sex again. It is early days still, but so far, very fun and encouraging.

. . . . .

I have no idea what you should do or not, but I will say that you do sound more "in love" with your wife than the guy I knew was. Their resentments toward each other over the years had killed their love for each other, and they had contempt in their voices for each other.

You don't seem to have contempt in your voice for your wife, and you still love her clearly.

One question: do you think if by some weird twist of fate, HER fetish did also turn YOU on...could you imagine if that was true, that everything else between you could open up and maybe she could experience some variations on her fetish that you could both enjoy? I don't mean if you had to fake enjoying it. I mean, imagine if you really did enjoy it, for whatever reason, for the sake of this exercise.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

It seems to me that you are the spouse of someone addicted to porn. Now her "fetish" or sexual inhabitions and her movie star obsession aren't porn but they are causing the same emotional disconnect between you that usually a man's porn addiction causes with his wife. You mentioned counseling of various degrees MC, IC, SC and it has helped somewhat in increasing the frequency of sex in your marriage but ultimately you want more sex to make up for the lack of intimacy. Which, IMHO, is counter productive. Quantity can not make up for quality, and the more often you do it the more dissappointed you will be with it. The trick, it sounds, is to sustain the level of sex you are having and develop a plan to increase the intimacy gained from that.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Loving someone doesn't mean the relationship is good for you nor does it mean it's fulfilling.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> I feel totally paralyzed and I see my life ticking away and the relationship with my wife is becoming empty for me...(Im sure for her too)...I cant even watch movies with her anymore since that is how she got all her celebrity obsessions I cant follow the movie for thinking about her potential new obsession with the characters. Stupid I know...so I watch movies alone.
> 
> Ugh but its so clear to me that I still love her...I dont like her at all.....I dont really like the things she likes...(some of them Im neutral about)...I cant stand hearing her talk sometimes.....she made the point that I dont love her although I say I do...that Im bonded to her, but I dont love her.
> 
> ...


Honest opinion from me... warning, you may not like it: 

I think you're both suffering from very low self-esteem. In a weird way, this IS the bond you have. 

The two types of fantasies she has strike me as being ways for her to mentally experience a feeling of control/dominance - both as the powerful one and as a person subjected to someone else's power. 

I find myself wondering if some mild S&M activities would enliven your sex life, like handcuffs and blindfolds here or there. 

But in any case, your fear of leaving and your attraction to women who don't make you feel wanted is "proof" that reaffirms your fear that you're not worthy, a secret belief that you may not consciously acknowledge. Even so, there's still that part of you that believes and craves knowing that you *are* worthy and desirable. Until you resolve this dilemma, you'll likely stay trapped in the kinds of behaviors that bring this dynamic into your life.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> I cant help thinking that my desires for relationship are simply not realistic...not "enlightened" and based upon my human male desire to spread my seed around as I find my wife is no longer fertile. Stepping back I see that this is evolution built in stuff...


Why in the world would you think this? :scratchhead: Your desires are perfectly realistic! 

You also said this:

"I cant shake the feeling that my reasons to want to go are not legit."

You are making yourself feel like you HAVE to stay in a situation that is not satisfying for you, and that is simply not true. If you have ANY reason to want to go, they are legit, they are valid. If you are not happy, and see no resolution, ITS OK to get out. It does not sound like she is really happy either.

Edit to add, it is better to be alone than to be in a relationship that makes you feel alone.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Yes, there are definitely people here who would be thrilled beyond belief to have sex once a week. However, that doesn't help you.
> 
> I spent several years in limbo before deciding to get out (he cheated) and once I made the decision I felt far better than I had in years. But actually getting to the point of making that decision was hard. Very. Not something I wish on anyone.
> 
> Eventually something will tip it one way or the other for you. Or, like some, you will push that decision off and that will itself become a decision.


Thanks for your story. There are whole books written on this topic of when, if, and how to leave a borderline relationship....unless there is abuse or something clear cut..it is very difficult.

If she STOPPED having sex with me Id leave after a while...but that does keep me around. It seems shallow but my fear of ending up with zero sex is real, perhaps dumb and limiting..but real considering Im not a very social person.

I work with some women of the appropriate age but I am VERY concerned about what is and is not appropriate in the workplace..especially considering Im the boss....I have several women who go out of their way to "please" me and one of them is very attractive to me, which surprises me cause she is a little taller than me and a little "bigger" than I thought I liked....but age 29 probably makes her attractive to me.

Unfortunately she is in a position to want to please me with her work to do well at her job...so Im thinking any interest I get from her is probably professional...and for crying out loud Im still married and Im not a scumbag and I would never ever ever do anything inappropriate while I was still with my wife.

This is my mind though...


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> fetishwife...This is very odd, because your story is very specific, but I know a man who had a very similar story to yours. I know he isn't you, but the basics of the story are the same, including length of time married and this extreme, need-it-to-get-off-nothing-else-works type of fetish thingy. Also, all the things you are saying about how you feel, he was saying when he was in your shoes. He deliberated for a long time - decades, literally - over deciding to stay and try to endure, or leave and seek other happiness in another life.
> 
> Do you want to know how his story ends?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the story....

Ive tried that...IF she had been honest with me from the start and there was no resentment...if she was truly comfortable with it, yes I could get into it. 

I cant get into it if she resists, thinks I dont like it, feels like a freak, etc etc....Ive screwed it up pretty badly over the years and called her a name a couple times and complained about this "sexual orientation" being an "it"...not hetero or lesbian...just "it"...

So Ive made her feel bad Im sure out of my own anger and frustrations.....

Of course she was not that into him cause only the fetish can make her truly sexually aroused. 

My wife swears that she is attracted to me in the past, but very little makes her feel sexual. She does at certain times and in certain circumstances....they call that "GreyA" asexuality on the AVEN website....

I was talking about it one night and she got very very upset that I think she is not attracted to me.....finally I basically raised my voice at her and I said......"fine, you are right, I give you a giant boner!.."....then she got my point and basically shied away and say..well almost nothing does and seems to feel back about her low sex drive....

She does not quite agree...she says I dont approach her in the right way etc...but as Ive said she has always had these issues...

She has often told me she loves me during sex etc....

I dont know what my problem really is...

She says its not sex like I claim cause when she has "given" me more it has not helped one bit with my mood or our relationship...I dont agree with that..it would be worse if she refused more often.

The question now is do I want it anymore....

What I want is her to be in love with me in the commonly thought of way...and for her to be reasonably sexual in the commonly thought of way...

I dont think Im going to get exactly that......but I know she is 100% devoted to me for life if I calm down and accept her the way she is.....

She claims to have no interest in other "real" men and I believe her...although Im sure if we separated and the right one came along she would proceed...but how would she ever tell another man about her sexual things...or maybe it would not matter to her then..who knows.

She also claims that she will not get crushes on celebrities anymore..but I think its her tendency...and I feel terrible even requesting such a stupid thing......why should I care that much?

I dont think I would if it was a passing fancy and she didnt get so into it!


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> It seems to me that you are the spouse of someone addicted to porn. Now her "fetish" or sexual inhabitions and her movie star obsession aren't porn but they are causing the same emotional disconnect between you that usually a man's porn addiction causes with his wife. You mentioned counseling of various degrees MC, IC, SC and it has helped somewhat in increasing the frequency of sex in your marriage but ultimately you want more sex to make up for the lack of intimacy. Which, IMHO, is counter productive. Quantity can not make up for quality, and the more often you do it the more dissappointed you will be with it. The trick, it sounds, is to sustain the level of sex you are having and develop a plan to increase the intimacy gained from that.


I believe you are exactly correct. Its absolutely about intimacy.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Honest opinion from me... warning, you may not like it:
> 
> I think you're both suffering from very low self-esteem. In a weird way, this IS the bond you have.
> 
> ...


Its ok I think you are correct. As weird as it is we are both UNABLE TO FEEL SAFE with the other. Although I think its her fault...since she is the one with the sexual "problem" which has only fed into my pre-existing lack of self esteem....

She says that its both of us together that cause the problem...our different issues mesh with each other in the worst way to lead to hurt.

A agree with you. 

Here is the reality.....

I have not found any good method to SOLVE my self esteem problem. Im not afraid of looking at it at all...I try to reason with my negative self talk using NLP method lately....

Also, perhaps I somehow think my separating from my wife will be THE CURE for my self-esteem in a trial by fire for my self esteem problem.

Of course if I end up alone and no one else that I find attractive is attracted to me, then I have no choice but to live the rest of my life trying.....or learn to like myself enough.

I also tell myself that I should be able to do this just fine living with my wife.

Its not helping lately that my 12 year old girl has become a monster herself and although we used to be buds now I feel like she hates me....my wife and I surely contributed to our daughters behavior and are too lenient...but she wont talk about her feelings at all and can often be very mean to me....very unfeeling on the exterior...

Sometimes I want to get away from her too....sad I know.

Perhaps Im


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why in the world would you think this? :scratchhead: Your desires are perfectly realistic!
> 
> You also said this:
> 
> ...


Thank you for validating my feelings. I stopped talking about our relationship with my wife a month or so ago because I know we just dont agree and there is not much to talk about anymore since we have been over and over our issues...and she often forgets what she has said in the past and she usually speaks from her feelings of the moment....understandable but changes all the time. For example...one time she might say she is enjoying sex more often and another time she says she does not enjoy it...many examples like that.

SHE MAKES ME FEEL MY FEELINGS ARE NOT LEGIT..she has said to me that my feelings are "disgusting" (that I still have trouble of letting go of what has happened that hurt me)....and wrong. She has told me that its impossible to please me. She has said that Im just an unhappy person/misanthrope....

She is unhappy that I find my job a bore (although I make plenty and Im good at it)....she sounded ashamed of me that I told someone at a party that I get bored. To me that is just a reflection of me needing to continue to do more and advance or find some sort of spiritual fullfilment....not that Im a loser....Im a loser who has a very successful business I guess...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> Thank you for validating my feelings. I stopped talking about our relationship with my wife a month or so ago because I know we just dont agree and there is not much to talk about anymore since we have been over and over our issues...and she often forgets what she has said in the past and she usually speaks from her feelings of the moment....understandable but changes all the time. For example...one time she might say she is enjoying sex more often and another time she says she does not enjoy it...many examples like that.
> 
> SHE MAKES ME FEEL MY FEELINGS ARE NOT LEGIT..she has said to me that my feelings are "disgusting" (that I still have trouble of letting go of what has happened that hurt me)....and wrong. She has told me that its impossible to please me. She has said that Im just an unhappy person/misanthrope....
> 
> She is unhappy that I find my job a bore (although I make plenty and Im good at it)....she sounded ashamed of me that I told someone at a party that I get bored. To me that is just a reflection of me needing to continue to do more and advance or find some sort of spiritual fullfilment....not that Im a loser....Im a loser who has a very successful business I guess...


YOU ARE NOT A LOSER!!!

And your feelings are NOT disgusting, they are not wrong. Feelings are feelings, stop letting her have this power over you. Once you take that away from her, you can start empowering yourself.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks,

by the way, I cant believe that over 1000 people have viewed this thread. Its funny I wonder if someone I know has read it while having no clue who I am.....anyone out there think I have given out any personally identifiable info other than our ages?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

fetishwife said:


> Its ok I think you are correct. As weird as it is we are both UNABLE TO FEEL SAFE with the other. Although I think its her fault...since she is the one with the sexual "problem" which has only fed into my pre-existing lack of self esteem....
> 
> She says that its both of us together that cause the problem...our different issues mesh with each other in the worst way to lead to hurt.
> 
> ...


I agree with your wife that it's the 2 of you together creating the problems. It's not simply her fault or yours. 

As far as leaving, you'll still be the same person when you leave. So far, you have not figured out what it is about you that causes you to alienate women or only feel attracted to those who aren't attracted to you.

I think your first step is figuring which of those two things are true. Do you alienate women? If not, what is it about unavailable people that entices you? (I think the answer lies in the last post I made above this.)

Once you figure out the WHY, you can start working on the changes. You might find NLP to be one way to address it. Affirmations and cognitive behavior changes might work. It really depends a lot on the why. 

As you make changes, it will affect your marriage for better or for worse, and you'll have to cross those bridges. But I think your subconscious is keeping you where you are because it knows that you will not have changed just because you left. You'll keep attracting what you've always attracted until YOU change.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

As far as alienating women....I try not to but in 23 years ive not tried to have anything but a professional relationship with any women. I am not a flirt and I do not act "sexual" in any way at work or in public around anyone but my wife and I do keep my distance and remain professional at work at all times.

As I said halfway into my marriage I did have a young woman try to "pick me up" by having me over to her apt for dinner despite me telling her Im in a relationship. I alienated her for sure...but not in a rude way. I think she was interested in my status and did not know anything about me otherwise.

I simply do not expose myself to hardly any women who are single, not significantly older than myself, or not my employees or in a subordinate position in a professional environment. 

So in that sense I alienate women at the moment which is appropriate in my mind cause Im married and in my state Im also worried that Im liable to do something stupid like have an EA if I was to get any attention at all. 

Yes in college I was somewhat shy but I did have a couple experiences as I said.

I surely had a major problem accepting rejection in the past and took it very hard and orbited the women/girls I latched on to...

I believe that is related to my relationship with my mother which I have been working on over the years.

I believe there was zero chance of me splitting from my current wife over the years because of my self esteem issues the first thing that comes into my mind is who else will accept with/find me attractive.

Im no longer interested in unavailable people. Im interested in an available partner!

I think if I were to be single, dated a bit and had a few women actually interested in me, and felt no particular attachment to anyone requiring me to feel the need to "orbit" them.(..believe me I would not do this anymore.....) that would be a part of the external proof I need to cure my sense of not being desired by women.

Since my wife is not likely to have some huge change (although she has changed a lot more than I ever would have expected) its as if I know that Ill never get any external affirmation as long as Im married to her.

I suppose some men would have an EA or PA to address this inner insecurity....Im not sure exactly WHO would want to have an EA or PA with me anyway....but trying to start an EA with someone is certainly something that would probably end up lowering my self esteem more than raising it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Can't remember, have you read NMMNG? You have described some things that make me think you would benefit from that one.

Also, they have a great website, with many helpful guys who have been in something similar to your shoes who give great advice.

I'm glad you realize that you are vulnerable to an A, but also that an A would make your problems greater, not less. Good on ya.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Hey Faithful Wife,

I have read MMSL....I have not read NMMNG cause to be honest Ive never been a nice guy. My wife said I was a jerk before she started dating me and nothing has changed. She says Im self centered, etc etc....I dont think I have the problem of thinking that catering to women is the way to their hearts! Maybe when I was a kid I cant remember. I got too cynical in my 20's and I forget important dates, dont give gifts, dont do too much for her etc.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks for the ideas. Thanks for reading. Im not expecting another person to make me happy, but it would be nice to have a compatible companion to nudge things in that direction. Im getting used to being alone now anyway even still living at home.

I appreciate what you are saying about karma....


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