# Husband Shoots Sick Wife to Death Because They Could Not Pay for Her Medicine



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I think we will be seeing a lot more tragic stories like this one in the years ahead. 

I for one feel very sad for this man. You work your ass off all your life, pay into Social Security, and for what? Our SSI system is a joke.

Man, 86, Fatally Shoots Sick Wife Because They Could No Longer Afford Medication: Cops


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

its tough watching a loved one die and in pain. been there done that.

but he could have done something better than shoot her in the head.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

I doubt that his story has much truth to it.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

God, that is just hearbreaking. 

I looked at a home for sale a while ago, I thought the house looked familiar for some reason. Then I saw the disclosure in the MLS info. that a murder/suicide had taken place in the house. The husband killed his wife as she slept then killed himself she had dementia and he could no longer care for her at home


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Truth or not, at face value the story points out a very real problem. I call it enforced suffering for profit.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> Truth or not, at face value the story points out a very real problem. I call it enforced suffering for profit.


Or enforced death for profit....that profit can buy complete silence...even from an entire government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullahi_v._Pfizer,_Inc.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I for one feel very sad for this man. You work your ass off all your life, pay into Social Security, and for what? Our SSI system is a joke.


Two issues come into play here: the crippling costs of health care and the absence of having the right to die. If I someday am diagnosed with Alzheimer's or the onset of dementia, I hope that I can know early enough to have the ability to end my life at the time I choose. 

It's not surprising that Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRAM), the industry's leading trade group, opposes right to die legislation. Prolonging suffering is good for business.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> Truth or not, at face value the story points out a very real problem. I call it enforced suffering for profit.


Yes and no. We offer, here in the western world, false hope that everyone can live a charmed life unto extreme old age where a generation ago we'd just throw up our hands and have a nice funeral that many years earlier. Just because we CAN keep people alive doesn't make it the right thing to do. Is it always the cost of treatment? No, it's not, often it's the choice to have that treatment in the first place. For instance, if it were free do think EVERYONE would have open heart surgery at age 94? I doubt it? 

And the flip side of that is even darker. As 'we' treat more and more diseases at some baseline level of 'life' it leaves us with that much larger a portion of absolutely untreatable things that we claim people die from. Like all sorts of brain and neuron motor diseases, dementia, MS and so on for which there is no treatment. People with Huntington's are still going to die screaming in agony


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

everybody has the right to die. whos stopping you from offing your self and what are they going to do after you kill yourself?

the question is will you have the stones to do it.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I worry that the increase in medical costs will financially destroy my parents. My mom has been telling me how much my dad's medications cost, and I worry that the cost of medications alone will put them in the poor house. And neither my sister nor I are in a position to support them financially, if it gets to that point. Right now, that's kind of far off--my mother's parents are still living, and my mom's really focused on them right now--but my mom has also said that she doesn't think they'll ever be able to actually retire because of the high costs of the medical bills.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'll throw this out to the masses. Choice is not as available as you think. 
I chose to ignore the advice of my Doctor to take a medication that would have lined the pockets of Big Pharm, to the tune of $450. / month. 
The Dr. refused to write me a prescription for insulin.

Why? well the Doctor is required by LAW to give the best possible care. Ink still wet on his diploma the Drug salesman had convinced him that without this new Drug I would be receiving less than the best possible care. With my refusal to buy the medicine he was left with facing that liability, or claiming that I was not his patient. Law enforcement colluded in denying me life saving medication (insulin) until I agreed to turn over all of my wealth. Robbery, extortion, blackmail, and yes murder, all to ensure that someone makes a sale. 

Everything stronger than an aspirin is a dangerous controlled substance. Most of these could be safely sold over the counter. 5 or 10 year prescriptions could be allowed. Lifetime prescriptions could be allowed. A deregulated pain medication would have solved this situation. Bankruptcy was not enough. Where is more money going to come from? I read an article that suggested that the Daughters should have also been bankrupted to enrich the dope dealers (yes we are talking about Morphine). 

So yes you are required to live and suffer and bleed money as long as they can keep you barely functioning. This case was 15 years of pain. 15 years! inconceivable. Now law enforcement is ensuring that someone pays for killing the Cash Cow.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> Yes and no. We offer, here in the western world, false hope that everyone can live a charmed life unto extreme old age where a generation ago we'd just throw up our hands and have a nice funeral that many years earlier. Just because we CAN keep people alive doesn't make it the right thing to do. Is it always the cost of treatment? No, it's not, often it's the choice to have that treatment in the first place. For instance, if it were free do think EVERYONE would have open heart surgery at age 94? I doubt it?
> 
> And the flip side of that is even darker. As 'we' treat more and more diseases at some baseline level of 'life' it leaves us with that much larger a portion of absolutely untreatable things that we claim people die from. Like all sorts of brain and neuron motor diseases, dementia, MS and so on for which there is no treatment. *People with Huntington's are still going to die screaming in agony*


One of my sister's childhood friends is in the late stages of Huntingdon's right now. His mother died of it when he was a small child, and his step-grandmother is his primary caregiver now, but she is in her late 70s, I think. (I believe his biological grandmother also died of Huntingdon's.) It has taken a huge toll on their family. Her children (from a previous marriage, so they are not directly related to the childhood friend) have said they will no longer help, as it has become a huge burden on everyone. He has no quality of life, and the step-grandmother refuses to put him in a facility. If he had the choice to terminate his life, I think he would take it--but he is physically unable to do so at this point, and his step-grandmother would never allow it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

We have no idea if this guy really killed his wife because of medical bills.

This story has nothing to do with the right to die. She did not choose to die. He chose to kill her.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Usually When someone posts one of these I read around to see if there is more information. I read 4 articles of 6. On the other hand I could also be lying about my Doctor. - - - looking for the kool aid


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> We have no idea if this guy really killed his wife because of medical bills.
> 
> This story has nothing to do with the right to die. She did not choose to die. He chose to kill her.



Maybe maybe not. It could have been an implied wish. You can't ask and verify though. But you're right in that sense, you don't know. And - if you can't afford medication and that's your sole reason that's bad.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I've read some more on this story.

Let's please not use a case of very serious domestic violence/murder some twisted story of mercy or of proof of the high cost of drugs.

A Man Shot His Wife In The Head, And The Media Basically Gave Him A Pass

*“Abusers often lie, justify their behavior, blame others and minimize their violence,” she said. “In these cases, if you take their story at face value, they will often talk about caregiver stress. They portray themselves as the victim, doing the best they can.”

One of Hager’s neighbors, retired nurse Kathy Diamond, told Treasure Coast News that learning about the circumstances of the death was difficult for her as she knew firsthand that resources were available in the community. 

“When Hospice gets involved with somebody with terminal illness, we pay for medications, we pay for beds, we pay for equipment, we pay for doctors,” she said.

She liked to garden. She was creative. And she did not ask to be shot in her sleep.​*
So it seems that his 'excuse' is just an excuse for murdering his wife.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

About the cost of drugs: 

During my recent health issue I had a few extremely expense drugs prescribed.

One was an antibiotic that cost $5,000 a month. So my copay would have been $1,000. The pharmacy at the hospital, Walgreens, had a coupon from the drug company that allowed me to get it for $1. When the pharmacist brought the meds up to me, I did not have any cash in my hospital room. So he told me to forget the $1.

The other was an anti coagulant, Lovenox (enoxaparin), with a 30 day cost of $10,000. So my co-pay would have been $2,000. I ended up on it for only 3 days before it cause me serious issues (put me back in the hospital) so they moved me to a much cheaper med. So I only paid for the 3 days of meds. But... my hemotologist and pharpasists say that there the manufacturer puts out coupons that allow people to get this med for next to nothing.

Also:

Drug companies do have programs to provide their drugs to people at a sliding scale based on their income.

There are companies that specialize in helping people get the meds they need either free or on a sliding scale.

I'm not saying that big pharma is great and wonderful. There are serious issues with the industry. But, there are ways for most people to get what they need apparently.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> About the cost of drugs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My son went on accutane which cost about $1,000 per month for 6 months. We have a $6,000 deductible so it was mostly going to be out of pocket. Canada is 2 hours north. The little pharmacy on the other side of the border charged $140.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Steve1000 said:


> Two issues come into play here: the crippling costs of health care and the absence of having the right to die. If I someday am diagnosed with Alzheimer's or the onset of dementia, I hope that I can know early enough to have the ability to end my life at the time I choose.
> 
> It's not surprising that Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRAM), the industry's leading trade group, opposes right to die legislation. Prolonging suffering is good for business.


The "right" to die can very easily become a "duty" to die. When society pays your medical bills they legitimately have some say in how and how long you live.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

At 86, the husband could very well be cognitively impaired. I'm not buying the medicine excuse. What other reason could he conjure to off his wife?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

BBC - Ethics - Euthanasia: Is there a duty to die?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The ?Duty to Die? Advances


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My son went on accutane which cost about $1,000 per month for 6 months. We have a $6,000 deductible so it was mostly going to be out of pocket. Canada is 2 hours north. The little pharmacy on the other side of the border charged $140.


The drug was $140 in Canada because Canada, like most other countries, negotiates prices with drug companies. The drug companies are charging US customers the cost of their development and advertising/promotions.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I think we will be seeing a lot more tragic stories like this one in the years ahead.
> 
> I for one feel very sad for this man. You work your ass off all your life, pay into Social Security, and for what? Our SSI system is a joke.
> 
> Man, 86, Fatally Shoots Sick Wife Because They Could No Longer Afford Medication: Cops


Social security is NOT a medical plan. It is supposed to provide a supplement to one's own retirement savings.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> everybody has the right to die. whos stopping you from offing your self and what are they going to do after you kill yourself?
> 
> the question is will you have the stones to do it.


Not true. Some are so debilitated that they can't do very much of anything. Some states (Washington, I believe, is one) has a state law allowing one to help a debilitated person commit suicide. However a bunch of legal documents have to be drawn up first and they cost money.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I've read some more on this story.
> 
> Let's please not use a case of very serious domestic violence/murder some twisted story of mercy or of proof of the high cost of drugs.
> 
> ...


Quite possibly.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> About the cost of drugs:
> 
> During my recent health issue I had a few extremely expense drugs prescribed.
> 
> ...


Good grief! I'm also on an anti-coagulant (Xarelto) and while it isn't cheap, it isn't $30,000 for a 30 day supply. It is about $250 for a 30 day supply. I pay $25 of that. My insurance pays the rest.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My son went on accutane which cost about $1,000 per month for 6 months. We have a $6,000 deductible so it was mostly going to be out of pocket. Canada is 2 hours north. The little pharmacy on the other side of the border charged $140.


Yeah. And the pills you got and the pills you would have gotten in the US were probably made in the same factory. Retail drug costs in the US are the highest in the world.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The drug was $140 in Canada because Canada, like most other countries, negotiates prices with drug companies. The drug companies are charging US customers the cost of their development and advertising/promotions.


Yup. I'm not a tax specialist but I believe that research costs are deductible in full and advertising/promotions are deductible in part. It is my opinion that the companies charge what they can because they can. That's the point of capitalism.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The drug was $140 in Canada because Canada, like most other countries, negotiates prices with drug companies. The drug companies are charging US customers the cost of their development and advertising/promotions.


Accutane cost $240/month 7-8 years ago when DD1 used it. Generic of course. And miracle of miracles covered by insurance. Now it's not, and $1k a month. All hail the free markets.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Same thing happens in the UK, too, even though meds are free.

People sometimes just cannot cope and decide to end it all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Been reading a couple articles on this case...with some of the comments underneath...really not enough of the facts have come to light yet.. it seems media wants to push their agenda , whatever it may be, using this man's story.. one article I read inflamed him, how he had to be a secret abuser.. others have made light of it -to defend her wanting to die, her pain AND the high cost of prescription drugs.. 



> In his interview with investigators, Hager said he had been considering killing his wife for “several days due to her being in pain,” the document states.
> 
> Carolyn Hager had previously told her husband that she wanted to die, William Hager said. But, he added, she hadn’t asked him to kill her.
> 
> “He was perfectly clear on that he was going to be arrested and go to jail, but again, he felt that this is where it had gotten to him and this was his course of action,” Wilson said, according to Treasure Coast Newspapers. “He showed emotion and he was very clear that he was out of options in his mind.”


Just reading it.. I can find compassion on the man...they were married 57 yrs ....I can see where people who post things like this are coming from.. just imaging being in that situation.. 



> Probably you have not had the experience of sitting at a death bed for days, watching a loved one dying in extreme pain with no hope of improvement, knowing that if you allowed an animal in your care to continue to suffer in this way and took no action, you might justifiably be prosecuted for cruelty to the animal. Not only is such a situation stressful almost beyond bearing, but it makes you desperate to do something to help release your loved one from such suffering. This is a matter that will go to court. Wait and let the judge or jury learn all of the facts and make thier decision before you pass judgment.


I felt the greatest compassion for Carol Carr when I read her story..a mother shooting 2 of her bedridden sons who begged to die....

A Deadly Disease Destroys Patients and Families - NYTimes.com They couldn't even do it themselves.. They had no quality of life at all, just misery, abuse in the Nursing home they were living in afflicted with Huntington's disease ... 

I wish more would be done about getting "Living Wills" into the hands of people... for instance.. they require everyone who gets a Drivers license to accept or reject being a Donor.. I think they should have a "Living will" with questions/ answers to fill out along with that.. so we know the expressed wishes of the individual before it gets to where they've lost the ability to speak for themselves or physically act on their own behalf if They wanted to, as Carol Carr's sons would have done...a very depressing subject we don't want to think about it..


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