# My wife is so lazy, but I try to respect and love her anyway. Just getting tired.



## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Am I doing the right thing? I have a beautiful and sweet wife. She is loving to me and accepts my faults. 

I couldn't ask for anything more, except that she is so lazy that it drives me nuts. I also think she is a TV addict. I am patient and kind to her and I am constantly attempting to do romantic things or sweet and kind things for her and I tell her I love her every day. I rub her feet when they hurt and rub her head when it hurts. I make her favorite coffee and bring it to her, I bring her flowers and try to do for her everything a typical woman would want or need. I tell you this so you will know that I'm not a demanding or chauvinistic jerk. 

We both work full time and we are both tired at the end of the day. The difference is that I come home from my job and work for an hour or two to clean, wash or cook and she heads straight for the bed and disappears into TV land watching TV until she falls asleep. She does not cook, buy groceries, clean, do laundry or anything else. If she is not watching TV, she is on her iPad looking at shoes. (She probably has over 100 pairs of shoes!) Her TV watching is so bad that it seriously cuts into any time that we could spend together. The only way I could spend time with her is to watch TV with her and that is not really spending time together. We have talked about this and now she spends a few minutes with me and as soon as the conversation dies, she is right back at the TV for the rest of the evening. On her days off, she will often spend the entire day in bed watching TV. 

Our bedroom has her stuff piled everywhere. You can't sit in any chair or put anything on a table because it is already piled with her clothing, purses and shoes. You can hardly walk in there because the floor is littered. Don't even think about using the upstairs bathroom. I don't even go upstairs except to sleep because it is such a mess that you can't walk or sit and the TV is on loud every waking moment. 

It may be surprising to learn that, when she leaves the house, she looks like a million bucks. She has an amazing sense of fashion and she is the role model for many other women. I am not kidding, when she is away from her TV, she is stunning and works hard at her job. It's sort of a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde syndrome: Lazy, falling apart slob at home/amazing put-together fashion model-business woman to the outside world. I feel like everyone else gets the good part of her and all I get is the mess. 

I tell myself that she has a right to live however she wants and it is my duty to love, respect and cherish her anyway, and I do. I have decided that the upstairs is hers to keep in any condition she wants and I keep the downstairs fairly tidy and clean. When I say something to her about her slobbiness or her laziness, she gets really mad and hurt, but doesn't change for very long. And, I used to complain a lot, but now it's just not worth it anymore. Nothing but bad things come from my complaining.

I would go crazy with this but I just have to not think about the horrible living conditions upstairs. I would be beyond ashamed if anyone dropped by our house unexpectedly, especially if they went upstairs. However, I have decided to accept that people are not perfect and a happy life is a tradeoff where you accept the things you can't change. She grew up with a horrible, verbally abusive (and very tidy) mother and I know a lot of her issues stem from this. 

I have made a conscious decision to LOVE MY WIFE no matter what. I believe that love is often an act of will as much as it is an emotion. That will either give me a great life and marriage or my next post will be coming from a mental institution somewhere.

Does anyone have any suggestions?


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Could she be depressed? Spending all her free time cooped up in a cluttered mess watching tv doesn't sound like something an emotionally healthy person would do.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

How old is she? Do you have children? How is your sex life?


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

Funny as it seems, some people just don't need tidyness. I am a fanatical cleaner & tidier myself, but 3 of my kids & my H are not tidy people. My MIL never puts anything away. Ever. 
both my eldest daughter & myself have at different times tidied my MIL kitchen only to find a couple of days later, everything is back on the bench. My youngest daughter loves to have everything where she can see it & her idea of tidying her room is to put everything from the floor onto the desk. Her idea is different to mine & she is also bone lazy. 
I can't function in an untidy enviroment, it just shuts my mind down, but some people can.

With your wife, there may be some immaturity there as well as laziness. 
The constant shopping for personal items, the lack of care for them (leaving items laying about), seems to speak of deeper issues. As well as the constant tv watching at a loud volume.

Maybe try some counselling to see if issues can be brought to the surface & dealt with. Maybe read together the book His Needs, Her Needs.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

I find it interesting that you have repeated how gorgeous your wife is and how well put together she is. Could it be that her beauty makes up for some of her less desirable traits in your eyes? Many beautiful women feel entitled to behave in unacceptable ways because the world gives them more. 

Married people have to consider each other's feelings and keeping upstairs like a pig pen is a sign of disrespect for your wishes. As her husband, you have the right to ask that she consider your feelings and your comfort as well. Don't let her get away with this behavior anymore. 

I love shopping like many women, but I do not have hundreds of ANYTHING. It sounds like your wife has a shopping addiction and perhaps she was not taught how to keep her home clean. I am getting some hoarder vibes as well. 

Set some boundaries and steer your wife towards therapy.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Emerald said:


> How is your sex life?


What's that? I can't remember.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MrsKy said:


> I find it interesting that you have repeated how gorgeous your wife is and how well put together she is. Could it be that her beauty makes up for some of her less desirable traits in your eyes? Many beautiful women feel entitled to behave in unacceptable ways because the world gives them more.
> 
> Married people have to consider each other's feelings and keeping upstairs like a pig pen is a sign of disrespect for your wishes. As her husband, you have the right to ask that she consider your feelings and your comfort as well. Don't let her get away with this behavior anymore.
> 
> ...


Yes, I am beginning to think she needs therapy. The problem is when I bring up that she has any faults, the whole world falls apart with crying, depression for days, a few days of picking up after herself and then right back to the original behavior. It's disrespectful to me, but there is more to it. 

Her beauty does influence me, and her inner person is kind and sweet. I love her for all of that. She is just such a mess that it makes me crazy.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

How do you two spend your time on the weekends?


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Bellavista said:


> Funny as it seems, some people just don't need tidyness. I am a fanatical cleaner & tidier myself, but 3 of my kids & my H are not tidy people. My MIL never puts anything away. Ever.
> both my eldest daughter & myself have at different times tidied my MIL kitchen only to find a couple of days later, everything is back on the bench. My youngest daughter loves to have everything where she can see it & her idea of tidying her room is to put everything from the floor onto the desk. Her idea is different to mine & she is also bone lazy.
> I can't function in an untidy enviroment, it just shuts my mind down, but some people can.
> 
> ...


Ooo, "His needs, Her needs" ? Sounds like something very valuable. Thank you.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> How do you two spend your time on the weekends?


She spends it watching TV often lying in bed most of the time. I try to get her to go on walks or ride bikes with me and she will rarely go, but sometimes we do and she usually remarks, "why don't we do this more often?"


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I am a slob compared to my H too  He is pretty OCD when it comes to things being a certain way, I am way more lax about it. He doesn't need things to sparkle but clutter gives him high anxiety. I absolutely HATE doing housework, cooking, etc. but I do it... I do it because it needs done, it makes him happier, more relaxed and things with the house/kids/etc. go smoother when it's clean. 

Your wife sounds like she's being a little manipulative in this situation. You bring it up, she cries, pouts, you back off... she goes right back to doing what she wants. 

I agree with therapy or at least a dr. appt. to see if she fits into the depressed catagory. However, if she has always been this way and it's not new behavior.... that just may be the type of person she is and she's ok with it. Selfish, when you're sharing your living space with someone...


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

lovingsummer said:


> I am a slob compared to my H too  He is pretty OCD when it comes to things being a certain way, I am way more lax about it. He doesn't need things to sparkle but clutter gives him high anxiety. I absolutely HATE doing housework, cooking, etc. but I do it... I do it because it needs done, it makes him happier, more relaxed and things with the house/kids/etc. go smoother when it's clean.
> 
> Your wife sounds like she's being a little manipulative in this situation. You bring it up, she cries, pouts, you back off... she goes right back to doing what she wants.
> 
> I agree with therapy or at least a dr. appt. to see if she fits into the depressed catagory. However, if she has always been this way and it's not new behavior.... that just may be the type of person she is and she's ok with it. Selfish, when you're sharing your living space with someone...


I think you nailed it on every count. I am not OCD though, I can get messy too, but I clean it up in a day or so. It builds up for months with her.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

I know where her issues come from. She had a terrible mother who would destroy her room and make her clean it and would cut her hair off crazy and make her go to school in humiliation to punish her for some infraction. If ever she came home with damaged shoes or clothing, there would be hell to pay. There were many other emotionally abusive instances. She lived in fear of her mother who would be furious with her and she would often not even understand why her mother was upset. She would get strange and humiliating punishments when she didn't know what she did wrong. She tells me she would spend much of her time hiding from her mother so she would not be abused. Her mother did not hit her, but the emotional abuse from as early as she can remember was tragic. I think her mom is somewhat psychotic. 

Her mother was a nurse, and they work very hard. Her mother also kept a perfect house. But she did considerable emotional damage to all of her children and my wife, being the first child, was the focus of most of her mother's angst. The others escaped much of it. 

Mother keeping perfect house, in trouble for damaged clothing; you can sort of see a mirror image of that in my wife's behavior.

So in many ways, my wife is a damaged person. Even writing this I am moved to tears because I love her. I love her and I can't stand her at the same time.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MrsOldNews said:


> Could she be depressed? Spending all her free time cooped up in a cluttered mess watching tv doesn't sound like something an emotionally healthy person would do.


Yes, I think she suffers from some strange sort of depression. She says she watches TV to turn off the thoughts in her head.


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Sounds like an old habit that she needs to break to live her life... when she was younger, that was her escape... her escape now should be LIVING, interacting with her H, cooking dinner together, going out to dinner, straightening the house, doing yard work, having sex, going on walks/bike rides, going to a movie, etc. 

I don't think she's realizing by living her life this way, HER MOTHER IS STILL CONTROLLING HER LIFE!!!!


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

MarvinDale said:


> I know where her issues come from. She had a terrible mother who would destroy her room and make her clean it and would cut her hair off crazy and make her go to school in humiliation to punish her for some infraction. If ever she came home with damaged shoes or clothing, there would be hell to pay. There were many other emotionally abusive instances. She lived in fear of her mother who would be furious with her and she would often not even understand why her mother was upset. She would get strange and humiliating punishments when she didn't know what she did wrong. She tells me she would spend much of her time hiding from her mother so she would not be abused. Her mother did not hit her, but the emotional abuse from as early as she can remember was tragic. I think her mom is somewhat psychotic.
> 
> Her mother was a nurse, and they work very hard. Her mother also kept a perfect house. But she did considerable emotional damage to all of her children and my wife, being the first child, was the focus of most of her mother's angst. The others escaped much of it.
> 
> ...


How very sad & you are sweet for loving her so much.

Of course she needs intensive therapy; you know it but it is so frustrating that she refuses help.

Can you clean her room by starting very slowly? Make it into a fun project?


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

lovingsummer said:


> Sounds like an old habit that she needs to break to live her life... when she was younger, that was her escape... her escape now should be LIVING, interacting with her H, cooking dinner together, going out to dinner, straightening the house, doing yard work, having sex, going on walks/bike rides, going to a movie, etc.
> 
> I don't think she's realizing by living her life this way, HER MOTHER IS STILL CONTROLLING HER LIFE!!!!


You are so right.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Emerald said:


> How very sad & you are sweet for loving her so much.
> 
> Of course she needs intensive therapy; you know it but it is so frustrating that she refuses help.
> 
> Can you clean her room by starting very slowly? Make it into a fun project?


Yea, maybe that might be worth a try. The funny thing is that she does clean up, maybe once a year, but it only lasts about a week and then she is right back to her usual mess.


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## frootloop (Dec 20, 2010)

I would agree therapy would be ideal. If that's not possible, perhaps she would consider treatment for her TV addiction? I think a few weeks with no TV would be enlightening, if she would agree to give it a try.

My ex-wife was a bit like that, had to have a TV in every room, constantly watching something - now I'm single, and I don't own a TV, I just watch DVDs.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

frootloop said:


> I would agree therapy would be ideal. If that's not possible, perhaps she would consider treatment for her TV addiction? I think a few weeks with no TV would be enlightening, if she would agree to give it a try.
> 
> My ex-wife was a bit like that, had to have a TV in every room, constantly watching something - now I'm single, and I don't own a TV, I just watch DVDs.


Did the constant TV drive you nuts? It does me.

I actually recently canceled our satellite TV service to save money. That has made things better, but she now spends all of her time watching Netflix, Crackle, and Hulu on our AppleTV. Not really that much different, but maybe a little better.


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## frootloop (Dec 20, 2010)

MarvinDale said:


> Did the constant TV drive you nuts? It does me.


Well, I tried to watch some of the shows "with" her, but I felt like I was wasting my life. What's worse, she watched *crappy* TV shows, lots of reality TV, and she was writing recaps (for free) for some reality-TV website. So, while I'm suffering through "Dancing with the Stars" with her, there is the constant click-clack of her typing, and the occasionally pause of the DVR, perhaps rewind to re-hear something she wanted to quote in her article... I can't say I miss it.

Now, I only buy shows I'm interested in, which are very few, I got Game of Thrones Season 1 on DVD, and watched the whole season in about two weeks - that's probably it for a few months...

After a while, I just sort of gave up, I'd bring my laptop or phone to keep me occupied during those shows, or find somewhere else to be. 

At least with Apple-TV and other streaming services, you are generally (hopefully) watching something you're interested in - I cannot stand to watch someone channel hop until they find something that they think doesn't suck.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

frootloop said:


> Well, I tried to watch some of the shows "with" her, but I felt like I was wasting my life. What's worse, she watched *crappy* TV shows, lots of reality TV, and she was writing recaps (for free) for some reality-TV website. So, while I'm suffering through "Dancing with the Stars" with her, there is the constant click-clack of her typing, and the occasionally pause of the DVR, perhaps rewind to re-hear something she wanted to quote in her article... I can't say I miss it.
> 
> Now, I only buy shows I'm interested in, which are very few, I got Game of Thrones Season 1 on DVD, and watched the whole season in about two weeks - that's probably it for a few months...
> 
> ...


Oh man, I hear you. Dancing With the Stars. Arggg. Nothing wrong with the show, but enough is enough. My wife loves reality TV. Maybe they live their lives through watching others? I find it hard to understand because I'm more of a doer than a watcher. I mountain bike, I surf and I play guitar for services at our church, so I don't have a lot of time to watch other people do stuff. It just makes a lot more sense to live your own life and enjoy the time you have rather than sitting and watching others live. 

It's ironic, my wife's favorite shows are the home improvement and home gardening shows. She watches other people fix up their houses while she sits in her mess.


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

MarvinDale said:


> Oh man, I hear you. Dancing With the Stars. Arggg. My wife loves reality TV. Maybe they live their lives through watching others?
> 
> It's ironic, my wife's favorite shows are the home improvement and home gardening shows. She watches other people fix up their houses while she sits in her mess. She has even watched the shows about people who clean up the houses of hoarders. I'm glad to say that, after watching a couple of those shows, there are many people out there that are much worse than my wife.


Maybe they've just been at it longer


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Sounds like you just described my wife. We are separated(nearing 3 months) and she does the same things. 

She is doing the same at my in-laws house. 

Severely depressed, OCD and probably unmedicated. She needs help. 

Good luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Marvin,
Lets be honest here. This isn't about her. This is all about you. If you were focused on helping her actually become a decent partner, you would stop coddling her every moment of the day. 

And the coddling is because you are afraid to have conflict because you are afraid of her/afraid she will leave you. 

Live in fear - get treated like a doormat. 

Start developing your own life and on the weekends say: I am going to go do "X", if you would like to join me you are welcome. And if she says no, you say "ok" and go and do it. 

Don't try to beg/sell/persuade her to come. And don't act surprised or mad when she says no. 

And if she is consistently saying no, start making plans to do things WITH OTHER people. Not just - going to ride your bike by yourself. 

Next weekend I am going to go do X, would you like to join me? When you get a non-committal answer you just smile and respond with: "Well let me know by tomorrow, if you aren't sure, I am going to make plans with XYZ". 

And once those plans are made, she can come but she can't ask you to break them. 




MarvinDale said:


> I know where her issues come from. She had a terrible mother who would destroy her room and make her clean it and would cut her hair off crazy and make her go to school in humiliation to punish her for some infraction. If ever she came home with damaged shoes or clothing, there would be hell to pay. There were many other emotionally abusive instances. She lived in fear of her mother who would be furious with her and she would often not even understand why her mother was upset. She would get strange and humiliating punishments when she didn't know what she did wrong. She tells me she would spend much of her time hiding from her mother so she would not be abused. Her mother did not hit her, but the emotional abuse from as early as she can remember was tragic. I think her mom is somewhat psychotic.
> 
> Her mother was a nurse, and they work very hard. Her mother also kept a perfect house. But she did considerable emotional damage to all of her children and my wife, being the first child, was the focus of most of her mother's angst. The others escaped much of it.
> 
> ...


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

SkyHigh said:


> Sounds like you just described my wife. We are separated(nearing 3 months) and she does the same things.
> 
> She is doing the same at my in-laws house.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for your marriage troubles. Did your wife take medication before? You got me thinking that maybe I'm serving as medication for my wife. I love her and treat her with extreme kindness, when I don't she falls apart. I think she has some serious mental health issues and I'm sort of holding her together. Maybe that's a calling on my life, to help her hold together, I don't know.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Marvin,
> Lets be honest here. This isn't about her. This is all about you. If you were focused on helping her actually become a decent partner, you would stop coddling her every moment of the day.
> 
> And the coddling is because you are afraid to have conflict because you are afraid of her/afraid she will leave you.
> ...


Thanks for the strong words. You are right to some extent. I do facilitate her neuroses to some extent but I am not afraid of her leaving me. I am a self-sufficient person who does not fear being alone. In fact, I often enjoy it. I'm just tired of confronting her about her issues. Nothing ever changes. It seems like trying to teach a pig to sing. Heard that one? "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It doesn't do any good and it annoys the pig."  

We have had many talks about her laziness and I have often been angry with her for doing absolutely nothing but watching TV. She refuses any therapy though. I think she is sick to some extent and uses the TV to drown out the negative thoughts in her head. I am not a doormat and I have confronted her many times about her issues. It just never does any good. I have been with her for many years and I have just sort of given up. After awhile you get tired of fighting it. 

I do a lot of other stuff and I don't let her control my life. I mountain bike with friends, did that today, I surf with friends and I play music with many friends, doing that tomorrow morning. But I have quit inviting her to go because she has no interest in those kinds of activities, and that's OK. So I'm OK and relatively happy. I just wish I could get my wife away from the TV. We are going out to lunch tomorrow, so that's a good thing. Going out to eat is one of the things she will gladly do, but that gets expensive really fast when you go too much.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MEM11463, you are listed as a forum supporter. Is that the same as a moderator on other forums? You police the forum and ban users who are abusive, flaming or spamming the board?


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

MarvinDale said:


> Thanks for the strong words. You are right to some extent. I do facilitate her neuroses to some extent but I am not afraid of her leaving me. I am a self-sufficient person who does not fear being alone. In fact, I often enjoy it. I'm just tired of confronting her about her issues. Nothing ever changes. It seems like trying to teach a pig to sing. Heard that one? "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It doesn't do any good and it annoys the pig."
> 
> We have had many talks about her laziness and I have often been angry with her for doing absolutely nothing but watching TV. She refuses any therapy though. I think she is sick to some extent and uses the TV to drown out the negative thoughts in her head. I am not a doormat and I have confronted her many times about her issues. It just never does any good. I have been with her for many years and I have just sort of given up. After awhile you get tired of fighting it.
> 
> I do a lot of other stuff and I don't let her control my life. I mountain bike with friends, did that today, I surf with friends and I play music with many friends, doing that tomorrow morning. But I have quit inviting her to go because she has no interest in those kinds of activities, and that's OK. So I'm OK and relatively happy. I just wish I could get my wife away from the TV. We are going out to lunch tomorrow, so that's a good thing. Going out to eat is one of the things she will gladly do, but that gets expensive really fast when you go too much.


I guess the choice has to be yours on how long you want to live this way... You can't make her change, she has to want to but it's not sounding like she wants to.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

You enable her. She pouts, you give in. 

Eventually you're going to resent her and its going to throw a hambone in your marriage. You should deal with this now before your cup runs over. You may come home mad as hell about something and seeing a dirty ass house could be the trigger of your explosion. 

Then it all comes out and things said can't be taken back. 

Also its unhealthy.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Marvin, 
Supporter means I paid an optional fee to the site Paying a small annual fee gives you a irtuslly unlimited private messages and some other stuff. 

I hope you didn't find my message inflammatory or abusive. It was not intended that way. 

I will frame this in a different way for you:
1. If you treated your wife the way she treats you, and she had to do all the housework, she would not tolerate that 
2. If you earn the same or more than she does and work about the same hours, you could re balance the finances to pay a cleaning lady to do what your wife refuses to do
3. As you said, getting angry at your wife for deprioritizing you does not work. 
4. I have no idea why your wife avoids spending time with you. Only you would know that. Surely it wasn't like that when you married so what changed? 

If she isn't attracted to you and doesn't really seem to enjoy your company than what is the reason you want to be with her?


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MEM1363, I really appreciate your words and your helping me think this through. I have not really had a chance to talk to anyone about this. I have talked with my mother a few times, but she already does not like my wife and it seems to cause more pain when I tell her of our issues. So I am really glad to have stumbled on this site and to have a few caring individuals to hash things out with. Thank you. 


MEM11363 said:


> I will frame this in a different way for you:
> 1. If you treated your wife the way she treats you, and she had to do all the housework, she would not tolerate that


No, she would not tolerate that and I would probably be out on my ear.


MEM11363 said:


> 2. If you earn the same or more than she does and work about the same hours, you could re balance the finances to pay a cleaning lady to do what your wife refuses to do


Good point. We used to do that but quit because it got really expensive. The cool thing about it was that she was embarrassed for the cleaning people to see her mess and she would pick up after herself every other week when they came. It was a bit of a breather before she trashed it again. You are right, it would be better for our marriage if we sucked our belts in and found a way to afford a house cleaner again. 


MEM11363 said:


> 3. As you said, getting angry at your wife for deprioritizing you does not work.


 No, it only seems to cause pain for both of us.


MEM11363 said:


> 4. I have no idea why your wife avoids spending time with you. Only you would know that. Surely it wasn't like that when you married so what changed?


 I discovered very early in our marriage that she was extremely lazy and a TV addict. It took me many years to finally admit to myself that she has a problem.


MEM11363 said:


> If she isn't attracted to you and doesn't really seem to enjoy your company than what is the reason you want to be with her?


 I think I have made her sound worse than she really is here. She always comes down from her TV when I come home to give me a kiss and tell me that she loves me. Then it's right back to the TV. Also, if I do something she likes, clothes shopping or going out to eat, she is eager to hang out with me. She actually even went hiking once with me last spring but she was miserable and terrified of every little sound in the bushes, so I didn't make her stay very long. It was disappointing, but I appreciated her effort. In her own, damaged way, she loves me with what she has to give. 

I stay with her because I'm a loyal person and I have a strong conviction that the grass is not greener on the other side. I grew up with my mother having 6 different husbands and I refuse to divorce. Plus, I'm actually reasonable happy, it's just that my wife is a constant irritation to me. I have adapted and have many wonderful things in my life that make me happy, even my wife sometimes makes me happy.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

The messiness and buying new clothes is a form of rebellion against her past. Your wife is now free to be messy and buy clothes and not take care of them without worrying about a psychotic reaction. 

This is also why you cannot give constructive criticism without your wife falling apart; it feels like being abused all over again to her Being raised by an abusive parent can lead to hypersensitivity.

I know this because I did several self destructive things in reaction to my abusive childhood. It wasn't until I attended therapy and married a patient and loving man that I decided to change for the better. I would not have been able to sustain a healthy marriage if I hadn't sought help. I had to come to that place emotionally and only your wife can choose to heal. 

If your wife refuses to try to repair her emotional damage, you will have to make a difficult decision about whether or not you can still be married to her. I think you love your wife's good traits, but her alarming behavior makes you resentful. I don't blame you for that if I am correct.

When an adult struggles with an abusive childhood, he/she is not responsible for the abuse which led to the emotional damage. However, the person IS responsible for how they choose to live their life.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

MarvinDale said:


> Thanks for the strong words. You are right to some extent. I do facilitate her neuroses to some extent but I am not afraid of her leaving me. I am a self-sufficient person who does not fear being alone. In fact, I often enjoy it. I'm just tired of confronting her about her issues. Nothing ever changes. It seems like trying to teach a pig to sing. Heard that one? "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It doesn't do any good and it annoys the pig."
> 
> We have had many talks about her laziness and I have often been angry with her for doing absolutely nothing but watching TV. She refuses any therapy though. I think she is sick to some extent and uses the TV to drown out the negative thoughts in her head. I am not a doormat and I have confronted her many times about her issues. It just never does any good. I have been with her for many years and I have just sort of given up. After awhile you get tired of fighting it.
> 
> I do a lot of other stuff and I don't let her control my life. I mountain bike with friends, did that today, I surf with friends and I play music with many friends, doing that tomorrow morning. But I have quit inviting her to go because she has no interest in those kinds of activities, and that's OK. So I'm OK and relatively happy. I just wish I could get my wife away from the TV. We are going out to lunch tomorrow, so that's a good thing. Going out to eat is one of the things she will gladly do, but that gets expensive really fast when you go too much.


If she is using the tv to drown other thought out of her head she should seriously consider meditation. 

But I'm still thinking its depression, based on your posts.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I love the idea of a cleaning person. They do not cost that much. I know you would rather her clean up her mess but it's not going to happen unless she get some therapy which she refuses right now.

She has issues but who doesn't? She works (many do not) is a loyal wife, seems to be kind & you do love her & don't want to divorce her.

So what if you have to "help" her with cleaning. If my husband was a big slob & either refused or had "issues" with cleaning up his mess, I would just do it because I LIKE A CLEAN SPACE.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Originally Posted by Emerald 
How is your sex life?





MarvinDale said:


> What's that? I can't remember.


Is this true? If so she could be the most beautiful woman in the world and what good would it do you if you laid next to her night after night being rejected and feeling miserable.

I start getting edgy and grumpy after about 5 days without sex.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

Emerald said:


> I love the idea of a cleaning person. They do not cost that much. I know you would rather her clean up her mess but it's not going to happen unless she get some therapy which she refuses right now.
> 
> She has issues but who doesn't? She works (many do not) is a loyal wife, seems to be kind & you do love her & don't want to divorce her.
> 
> So what if you have to "help" her with cleaning. If my husband was a big slob & either refused or had "issues" with cleaning up his mess, I would just do it because I LIKE A CLEAN SPACE.


Why should he put up with his wife not taking responsibility for her issues? Every action affects both spouses in a marriage and if behavioral patterns are causing distress, the struggling partner should care enough to improve. Therapy can be painful and grueling, but so is a divorce or a very unhappy marriage.

A cleaning person would just enable her laziness; plenty of people manage to keep a place presentable despite working full time and having children. 

Emerald, it seems like you are minimizing the issues. Compulsive shopping and living in filth are serious problems, which can ruin a marriage if one spouse is hurt by those things. I would never stay with my husband if he was a slob or refused to see a professional about psychological issues. I deserve better than that and so does the OP.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MrsKy said:


> The messiness and buying new clothes is a form of rebellion against her past. Your wife is now free to be messy and buy clothes and not take care of them without worrying about a psychotic reaction.
> 
> This is also why you cannot give constructive criticism without your wife falling apart; it feels like being abused all over again to her Being raised by an abusive parent can lead to hypersensitivity.
> 
> ...


 Awesome, thanks


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MrsOldNews said:


> If she is using the tv to drown other thought out of her head she should seriously consider meditation.
> 
> But I'm still thinking its depression, based on your posts.


I know there are some depression issues there, so you are spot on. She says that she grew up with the TV on 24/7 in her home so it's what she is used to. That makes me think that her mother struggled with the same issues. Those kinds of abusive relationships often get passed down, generation to generation. Thank the Lord that my wife chose not to pass it down to our daughter. Our daughter, now 23, seems to be happy and well-adjusted. So my wife has done some things right.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Emerald said:


> I love the idea of a cleaning person. They do not cost that much. I know you would rather her clean up her mess but it's not going to happen unless she get some therapy which she refuses right now.
> 
> She has issues but who doesn't? She works (many do not) is a loyal wife, seems to be kind & you do love her & don't want to divorce her.
> 
> So what if you have to "help" her with cleaning. If my husband was a big slob & either refused or had "issues" with cleaning up his mess, I would just do it because I LIKE A CLEAN SPACE.


Mrs Ky might be right that the idea of a cleaning person is just putting a band-aid on much larger issues. But I am liking the idea and that band-aid might be nice. I need my house clean or I feel like a loser/slob and I'm ashamed to have anyone over. I grew up in a clean house and that's what makes me comfortable. Not perfect, but generally clean. 

In my wife's defense, she works hard at a job that she is good at but does not like. She struggles with depression over facing a job that she does not like. She contributes a significant amount of money to our finances, so she is not a 100% loser. She is a sweet and gentile person that I genuinely like and love. It could be argued that she deserves a cleaning person. Don't you think?


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> Originally Posted by Emerald
> How is your sex life?
> 
> 
> ...


I was sort of joking. That area is not all I would like, but it's OK.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

I don't think you wife or anyone else with issues is a loser. Everyone of us had good and bad traits coexisting in our personalities. I do think it is a cop out to refuse treatment if health issues are suspected.

If you like the idea of a cleaning person, then hire one. 

I don't feel that anyone really "deserves" staff to do household chores, unless they are unable to complete housework due to medical concerns. I view housework as a necessary evil; something that is simply par for the course if one wants clean surroundings. Financial contribution does not exempt anyone from doing chores.

My husband is the breadwinner, but he still does the dishes because I cook wonderful meals and it is his way of showing appreciation. I hate to wash plates and pots, especially after slaving over a hot stove. My husband loves that chore so it works for us.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MrsKy said:


> Why should he put up with his wife not taking responsibility for her issues? Every action affects both spouses in a marriage and if behavioral patterns are causing distress, the struggling partner should care enough to improve. Therapy can be painful and grueling, but so is a divorce or a very unhappy marriage.
> 
> A cleaning person would just enable her laziness; plenty of people manage to keep a place presentable despite working full time and having children.
> 
> Emerald, it seems like you are minimizing the issues. Compulsive shopping and living in filth are serious problems, which can ruin a marriage if one spouse is hurt by those things. I would never stay with my husband if he was a slob or refused to see a professional about psychological issues. I deserve better than that and so does the OP.


I wonder, do I deserve better? Who am I? I'm not amazing. 

Both of our moms worked full time and managed to keep their homes presentable, like you said above.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MrsKy said:


> I don't think you wife or anyone else with issues is a loser. Everyone of us had good and bad traits coexisting in our personalities. I do think it is a cop out to refuse treatment if health issues are suspected.
> 
> If you like the idea of a cleaning person, then hire one.
> 
> ...


You cook wonderful meals? Can we come over for dinner tonight?  You sound like an amazing person. I wish she had you as a role model, she may not have turned out to be so messed up. 

Yes, I agree that working does not give her the right to be a slob. I think deep inside she must know that too. I have certainly told her enough. But I cook for myself, buy my own groceries (not hers-she's vegitarian), clean dishes, vacuum, mop floors, do my laundry (not hers), clean toilets, take care of the dogs, do a just acceptable job keeping the yard up, take care of the cars and a bunch of other things. We are really weird, aren't we? Sheesh. I do all of it or it will not get done and I especially can not stand dirty, stinking dishes. That would drive me to divorce. My mom told me just to let it all go until she can't stand it anymore. I tried that and she never came around. She would wash herself a dish to use and that was it. I finally gave in when our house began to smell much like our garbage cans.

I am not a neat freak. I am a typical man who should be scolded about leaving his shoes out or similar typical man things. Things have just gotten so bad that I have to take up the slack or go insane. That's something about her that could be considered in a positive light, she never scolds me about anything. I used to scold her about her slobbiness many times a month, but I have just gotten tired and given up.


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## Franz (Sep 9, 2012)

Dear Marv

I am a nurse working with depressed folks. Trust me your wife needs help and probably some medication. She is escaping into this world of TV and allowing the house to fall down around her.

She is allowing herself this dubious "gift" which she was never allowed as a child in her own family dynamics. 

She doesn't mean to be lazy or disrespectful to you, she is probably beyond grateful that you permit this state of affairs.
However she needs to learn that its not OK for you to live like this also. This is not your choice.

Could you stage an "intervention" with mutual friends or family you both trust and admire?
Please even invite people round, let them see the pigsty and let your wife be embarrassed, she needs to be shaken out of her mindset that its OK to live like this.

If you or anyone else can get her to a Doctor for a look at some of the antidepressants available, it would be a start, she's got to get some therapy some time soon. Best regards.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Franz said:


> Dear Marv
> 
> I am a nurse working with depressed folks. Trust me your wife needs help and probably some medication. She is escaping into this world of TV and allowing the house to fall down around her.
> 
> ...


That's great insight from someone who knows about this kind of stuff. I really appreciate your thoughts. I resonate with what you have said; I don't really think she has any disrespect for me and I also believe that she is grateful for the grace I give. She is very sweet and loving toward me, but she hides from the negative thoughts that plague her by watching TV and the laziness is a part of that somehow.

How do I get her to see a doctor? She would be devastated if I told her she needed one. After that hurdle, how do I find a good one? I think a lot of them are way off base and only a few are great. Psychology is such a nebulous discipline in my opinion, I saw a couple when I got in trouble as a kid and they were pretty useless. I hope this is not an insult to you, it's not intended to be. I know there are great doctors out there, but how do you sort through them?


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## missmolly (Jun 10, 2012)

Just a thought - and it could be completely way off.
What about if she read this thread??


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MD,
Is the 23 year old your bio daughter or her child from a previous relationship?



MarvinDale said:


> That's great insight from someone who knows about this kind of stuff. I really appreciate your thoughts. I resonate with what you have said; I don't really think she has any disrespect for me and I also believe that she is grateful for the grace I give. She is very sweet and loving toward me, but she hides from the negative thoughts that plague her by watching TV and the laziness is a part of that somehow.
> 
> How do I get her to see a doctor? She would be devastated if I told her she needed one. After that hurdle, how do I find a good one? I think a lot of them are way off base and only a few are great. Psychology is such a nebulous discipline in my opinion, I saw a couple when I got in trouble as a kid and they were pretty useless. I hope this is not an insult to you, it's not intended to be. I know there are great doctors out there, but how do you sort through them?


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

MarvinDale said:


> You cook wonderful meals? Can we come over for dinner tonight?  You sound like an amazing person. I wish she had you as a role model, she may not have turned out to be so messed up.
> 
> Yes, I agree that working does not give her the right to be a slob. I think deep inside she must know that too. I have certainly told her enough. But I cook for myself, buy my own groceries (not hers-she's vegitarian), clean dishes, vacuum, mop floors, do my laundry (not hers), clean toilets, take care of the dogs, do a just acceptable job keeping the yard up, take care of the cars and a bunch of other things. We are really weird, aren't we? Sheesh. I do all of it or it will not get done and I especially can not stand dirty, stinking dishes. That would drive me to divorce. My mom told me just to let it all go until she can't stand it anymore. I tried that and she never came around. She would wash herself a dish to use and that was it. I finally gave in when our house began to smell much like our garbage cans.
> 
> I am not a neat freak. I am a typical man who should be scolded about leaving his shoes out or similar typical man things. Things have just gotten so bad that I have to take up the slack or go insane. That's something about her that could be considered in a positive light, she never scolds me about anything. I used to scold her about her slobbiness many times a month, but I have just gotten tired and given up.


Thanks for the compliments. They made me smile. :smthumbup:

Oh, believe me. I am plenty messed up myself; that's why I can understand where your wife's behavior is coming from. Eventually I had to learn to be a survivor and not a victim. 

It sounds like you are doing all of the housework! That is not fair at all. Now that you indicated how bad the mess can get, I certainly think your wife may be a hoarder. 

Hoarding Severity Scale - Oprah.com

How about a smaller scale intervention? A bunch of people at once might be too intense for your wife since she is very sensitive. Pick two people who your wife trusts and gently speak to her about how much her lack of cleanliness bothers you. Tell your wife that you love her and you are worried that she isn't very happy. Give a deadline for seeing a therapist. Only you can think of the best consequences for refusal to seek help.


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## Franz (Sep 9, 2012)

Dear Marv

At this stage it is a doctor your wife needs not a psychologist, and yes you are right, it is the luck of the draw, as psychologists tend to have their "areas of practice" which just may not be your wife's (and yours) since you're the one with the problem.
Your wife's life does not extend beyond the Kardashians and her rubbish tip, apart from going out to work. That must be really sad for her if she has no outside stimulus.

My hope for you both would be an intervention, or a visit to an ?intern (is that the word you use in the US for your General Practitioner). Because it has reached that stage has it not? Tell her the both of you will go because its time already. Be your usual sympathetic supportive self, say the mess has reached unacceptable proportions, and given her early life you think she needs medical intervention, because you feel she is addicted to reality TV to escape her own reality. Be nice, be kind and do not be critical. Failing that go to the doctor yourself and ask for advice. Best regards


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

*Encouraging Update* Franz, MrsKy, Mem11363, missmolly, Emerald, MrsOldNews and all the other kind people who have given me words of wisdom.

We had a talk last night where I asked her if she was depressed and hiding out in watching TV. She said no, that she was very happy when watching those programs. I find that difficult to accept, but I took her word without argument. When asked about what would make her happy, she indicated that she was depressed about the state of our house. (well, duh, I thought, but didn't say it)

I said that it is not healthy for her to hole up like that and she should begin to participate in life again...and she agreed! I told her she needs to start going on her power walks again and meeting with her friends and she got tearful. I told her I love her and want her to be happy and she did not seem so in her current condition. We are going to work together this evening to get some of the mess she has made straightened out and she promises that, if I help her, she will go through everything and get reorganized over the next couple of weeks. I don't mind helping at all. 

This was a very positive encounter where there was no tension between us at all. I think that was because I approached from an attitude of concern for her, rather than scolding about being lazy. 

I really appreciate your input and I pray that this will go through and stick!


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## Franz (Sep 9, 2012)

Good on you Marv, remember to be brave, strong and kind and withhold the "lazy" remarks. You can even work out a target reward system. ie if the top bathroom gets done you can do something nice like go out for a frozen latte or something, how about taking some of the shoes, clothes etc to a charity shop. That would make her feel good, the reward being to the both of you a movie or something?? Well done anyway you. Best regards


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## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

Marv, glad there is hope. I would over emphasize what Franz said. You used the word LAZY in a lot of your posts. Don't use that word, lazy has nothing to do with what's going on with your wife.

One more thought, though it is a bit radical - if you have cable TV, cancel the service. This is her escape so doing so could be a really bad idea or just the push she needs to get help. And she does need professional help. There are some deep seated underlying issues. The TV, sloppiness, etc are just symptoms. You won't fix the problem by addressing the symptoms.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Wonderful news!


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MarvinDale said:


> We had a talk last night where I asked her if she was depressed and hiding out in watching TV. She said no, that she was very happy when watching those programs. I find that difficult to accept, but I took her word without argument. When asked about what would make her happy, she indicated that she was depressed about the state of our house. (well, duh, I thought, but didn't say it)
> 
> I said that it is not healthy for her to hole up like that and she should begin to participate in life again...and she agreed! I told her she needs to start going on her power walks again and meeting with her friends and she got tearful. I told her I love her and want her to be happy and she did not seem so in her current condition. We are going to work together this evening to get some of the mess she has made straightened out and she promises that, if I help her, she will go through everything and get reorganized over the next couple of weeks. I don't mind helping at all.
> 
> This was a very positive encounter where there was no tension between us at all. I think that was because I approached from an attitude of concern for her, rather than scolding about being lazy.


Nice job MarvinDale, these are very positive steps to improvement. I would characterize the tv watching as compulsive. What were your wife's parents like? Was her father at home and emotionally available? Understanding her can be very helpful


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Franz said:


> Good on you Marv, remember to be brave, strong and kind and withhold the "lazy" remarks. You can even work out a target reward system. ie if the top bathroom gets done you can do something nice like go out for a frozen latte or something, how about taking some of the shoes, clothes etc to a charity shop. That would make her feel good, the reward being to the both of you a movie or something?? Well done anyway you. Best regards


Yes, thank you. "I love you and I'm concerned for you" is so much more constructive than "You are lazy and should quit being that way." I'm finally learning that lesson. 

The big reward is that we are finally going to start having friends over again after we get this all done. I think your idea of smaller, more frequent rewards is splendid.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Nice job MarvinDale, these are very positive steps to improvement. I would characterize the tv watching as compulsive. What were your wife's parents like? Was her father at home and emotionally available? Understanding her can be very helpful


You are right, understanding is going to be the key. Father was kind but distant. Mother was horrible and abusive, it's detailed in earlier posts.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

rj700 said:


> Marv, glad there is hope. I would over emphasize what Franz said. You used the word LAZY in a lot of your posts. Don't use that word, lazy has nothing to do with what's going on with your wife.
> 
> One more thought, though it is a bit radical - if you have cable TV, cancel the service. This is her escape so doing so could be a really bad idea or just the push she needs to get help. And she does need professional help. There are some deep seated underlying issues. The TV, sloppiness, etc are just symptoms. You won't fix the problem by addressing the symptoms.


Thank you. You and I are on the same page here. I canceled the satellite TV a few weeks ago and that has helped. She just switched to online streaming of video, but that requires a little more work and she is not as engrossed in it. So it is a small step in the right direction.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Wonderful news!


Yes, thank you. I am excited.


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

missmolly said:


> Just a thought - and it could be completely way off.
> What about if she read this thread??


Wow, that would surely be powerful. I'm afraid that it might destroy her though. She has a big problem with people talking about her, it would be like punching her right where she is vulnerable.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

Very happy for you Marvindale. I am so glad the approach I suggested worked. :smthumbup:


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

MrsKy said:


> Very happy for you Marvindale. I am so glad the approach I suggested worked. :smthumbup:


Well of course!


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## MarvinDale (Sep 8, 2012)

*Another Encouraging Update* We spent about 3 hours this evening going through her stuff, cleaning it and putting it away. At this moment, 9PM, I am taking a break and she is still busily putting stuff away! We have had a very nice evening talking, LAUGHING, and working and the TV has not been on at all. We have been listening to classical music while we clean. 

The best thing of all is the fact that she is smiling. Because of that, I am too.


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

:woohoo:

Just so you know... my H comes home from out of town working and I cleaned the bedroom because of this... dusting and cussing the way... but it's done :rofl:


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## Franz (Sep 9, 2012)

Dear Marvin

Hi well done to the both of you. Make it a monthly thing, right? Clean up = movies and dinner. Or something that she likes to do.
Maybe hope this works for you.


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