# Found the evidence of wife having an affair



## SF-FAN

So I posted a thread back sometime in mid 2013 about my wife being cold and possibly having an affair with a co-worker. Things have been cold ever since, and yesterday I finally found the proof. Turns out she and the co-worker spent a weekend together a few months ago. She used the excuse that she was going with her friends for a girls weekend (typical right)?

Make a long story short I have a hotel receipt with his name on it, and the phone records showing her calling me and others from the same town on the same weekend. I confronted her about it and of course at first she tried to deny it. When she realized she couldn't deny it, she started crying and saying she new she messed up and that it was a stupid mistake she regrets, blah blah blah. Though she appeared remorseful, it's hard to know if she really is sorry about it or sorry she got caught.

She offered to leave and I didn't stop her. She sounded remorseful during the argument but when she text me this morning to ask about the kids, she appeared to have a much different attitude. Do I want to work things out? I don't know and apparently she doesn't know either. She appears not to even want to talk about it anymore. All I know is I am dying with this pain in my heart, can't eat, didn't sleep, and somehow got out of bed, dropped off the kids and came into work.

It's weird, I feel numb but feel like someone reached in my chest, grabbed my heart, threw it on the ground and is stepping on it with cleats. Where do I go from here???


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## syhoybenden

Besides us here, who are you planning on exposing this to?


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## SF-FAN

Honestly, I don't know. This all happened last night so I don't know what to do.


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## russell28

She'll try to downplay it, minimize it, make it your fault.. the attitude change is to feel you out, see if you beg and plead.. 

Let her stay out of the house.. What I did was change the locks, pack her stuff.. Take some time to read about your options.


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## tom67

Most of us thought she was cheating in your last thread. Well if she doesn't sound remorseful you may as well move on . You deserve better.


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## Clay2013

I am very sorry you are here and going through this. Its so sad that people throw there lives away doing these things. 

You are right to keep her out of the house. You are going to need some time. I would start the 180 process and take time for yourself to figure out what you want to do. 

The affair is probably still going on and that is why she is acting the way she is. There is no doubt this is going to be difficult for you but as yourself everyday. Do you really deserve what she did to your marraige? That will help you keep focused. Sure it hurts like hell but there is no denying what she did anymore. Get yourself Into counseling as soon as you can. 

You need to put more focus on you and less on her know. Its her job and I repeat HER JOB to fix this. Not yours. You did not force her to cheat. Its not your fault. She either does all the work or you just simply move on and file for divorce. 

There are a lot of people on this site that would say just start filing and honestly that might be a good idea. You can always stop it if you want to R. When she gets served It will bring this all into perspective for her. 

If the OM is married I would expose him and her to there work place and to his wife as soon as possible. 

Your response to this is key. If you want respect you are going to have to demand at this point. Take nothing less.

Clay


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## SF-FAN

Things have been cold for a while so for all I know she might have been planning to leave me for the OM. I don't know. Maybe she feels that if she weathers the storm, she'll get what she wants which is to not be with me and be with him.

I'm not begging her at all. I told her I don't know what I want. Inside I want to work things out and for things to be better but why? Why do I want to do that with someone that did that to me and our kids?


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## Foghorn

Hi SF

I remember your original posts and your suspicions. I am sorry you are here. It is hard to know where your head is at for the first few days... let alone her head. 

So, what to do. This is Foghorn-approved advice only, your mileage may vary. You may or may not want your wife back in your life, but at this point, let's operate like you do.

1) Does she feel real remorse? Or just upset at getting caught? We don't know and right now it doesn't matter. Does POSOM have a wife or girlfriend? Expose her affair, and do it right now. Warn no one. Tell your parents, her parents, your work, (her work?) and above all POSOM's significant other why she moved out. That she cheated. That she is living elsewhere as you are estranged due to her affair. Nuke this $hit sky-high.

2) Go dark. You need to sort out your own thoughts, feelings, get adjusted to your situation. Take good care of your kids and yourself (food, sleep) but for a 3-4 day period or even a week, I recommend communication with her be limited to texting about the kids. ONLY about the kids. Do not be drawn into discussions about love, marriage, forgiveness, blame, sex, families, divorce, or the NE Patriots. Only speak of the kids. She made this pot of stew, let her sit in hit BY HERSELF with her own poison thoughts.

Biatching, complaining, moaning, expecting someone else to "fix" things, those are PRIVILEGES of marriage that she forfeit when she farked someone else. Don't speak to her. Let her sit.

3) Find a dad-friendly lawyer and initiate divorce proceedings. This should shock her into either true remorse or tell you once and for all if she's done with the marriage. If you decide to reconcile, you can withdraw the divorce.

4) See your doctor and/or counselor for an appointment. You need face to face support that we can't give. Don't tell me you are one of these guys who never goes to the doctor. This situation is an exception. You are in shock, you need outside opinions, care, maybe even something to help you focus and sleep. It is ok, that part gets better.

My sympathies. Take care and keep in touch.

-FH


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## convert

start the 180 now this is for you. sometimes it brings the wayward spouse back, if you want that but it is mainly for you.

I would expose even if you D, This can also kill the affair and help bring her back again if you want that. The exposure of the Affair is supposed to help you even if you D.


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## SF-FAN

tom67 said:


> Most of us thought she was cheating in your last thread. Well if she doesn't sound remorseful you may as well move on . You deserve better.


Yes, so did I but without concrete proof I couldn't expose her.


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## Hope1964

1) Before you decide if you want to R, you need proof that she is no longer involved with anyone. She must provide this to you by giving you access to every facet of her life - computer, accounts, emails, phone, texts, everything. And not after she has a chance to delete anything either. Ask for her phone with your hand out, and if she refuses you know she's still hiding something. Ask for her email password, get it at once, then sit right down and have a look at her email - inbox, sent items and deleted items. You'd be surprised what they forget to delete. Once she does all this you may want to monitor her without her knowing.
2) She and you should be tested for STD's. She should provide results to you in writing, or take you to the appt to get them so you can hear it right from the dr.
3) You need to take care of yourself. Eat, sleep, exercise. Force yourself if you need to.
4) She should be falling over herself right now to prove to you she's worthy of R. If she isn't, tell her not to bother coming home and file for D. She DOES NOT get to tell you what is needed here. She DOES NOT get to just not talk about it. She should be asking you what YOU need and giving it to you ten times over. You should be able to ask her ANYTHING and get a remorseful, contrite, TRUTHFUL answer. Beware of trickle truth though. She will only admit to what you have evidence of.
5) If the OM is married, expose the affair to his wife


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## SF-FAN

I have to look the 180 up again, it's been a while since I've been on here. How does anyone function feeling like this? I am existing but I don't feel like I am living.


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## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Things have been cold for a while so for all I know she might have been planning to leave me for the OM. I don't know. Maybe she feels that if she weathers the storm, she'll get what she wants which is to not be with me and be with him.
> 
> I'm not begging her at all. I told her I don't know what I want. Inside I want to work things out and for things to be better but why? Why do I want to do that with someone that did that to me and our kids?


You want to do it because you love her, and you realize all you stand to lose. The time with your kids will be halved at best more than likely, and you might have to relocate, lose lots of money with D fees, etc. Family support may be lost. It is the uncertainty of the future for you. You now face starting over again and with the fear that the next person may be as callous and hard hearted as to do the same to you. Once is bad enough. These are things we all have to face. 

Hang in there. Sorry for your pain, but at least now the questioning is gone as you know at least some of the truth that she has cast doubt upon and made you feel like a fool for suspecting.


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## convert

Well, what i did was drink a lot. Don't do that, it did not help.

Is she still in the affair?


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## Chris989

She is not sure because she spent last night with this other man.

If you want her back you need to stop the affair first. A visit to the OMs house will work wonders.

In fact, I would do that anyway - just to show who's boss. If you didn't want her back, she would then have nobody. Haha.

Next follow the advice above, but first - stop the affair.


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## Lovemytruck

I remember your anguish.

Isn't it time to change your game? I would be done with her, and move on.

Marriage is difficult, at times, but it is not supposed to be an emotional hell.

Listen to what you are saying. I would end the pain and chalk it up to experience. Marriage should be a solid commitment to benefit both spouses. Your description of what you currently have falls short of this.

Good luck. Hope to hear better news in the future!


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## russell28

convert said:


> Well, what i did was drink a lot. Don't that it do not help.
> 
> Is she still in the affair?


This... Don't drink.


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## workindad

She left for the night. Very good chance om made her feel much better last night 

Without true remorse which she doesn't appear to have. I don't see that you have any real option aside from d. 

Get tested for stds. 
The only thing you can be certain about is that she will lie as much as she can to you. 

Is om married
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## love=pain

I would wonder where she spent the night last night and if this affair is still going on, a co-worker sounds like she still sees him maybe that's why the change in her attitude today she was with him last night.

Start taking care of the finances to protect the money, take care of the kids (questions they may have need answers) and finally and most important take care of yourself.

You have been here for awhile so you know she will try to place the blame on you and what to look for if she takes this underground. Maybe early to commit to R but if she has any hope of it she needs to start with transparency and the whole truth.

Just because she is out of the house doesn't mean she isn't responsible for taking care of the kids and her part of the bills.

I wish the best for you in this hard time.


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## SF-FAN

I don't know if she is still seeing him, I don't know what she truly wants, I really don't know anything except for that fact that I am hurting more than I've ever hurt before and it's hard to not want to talk to her and make things better.


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## convert

Oh yes the finances take care of them. Today

yes it does hurt.

you go to the OM house and talk to him. and I don't mean a nice chat.

this shows him you know where he lives.

i did this it worked and it showed my wife i was willing to fight for the marriage, although that was not my direct intention. It gave her an ego trip and that was not my intention either.

Is he married or does he have a girlfriend?


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## SF-FAN

She called from her friend's house last night and said I could talk to her. Aside from calling her friend and asking, I don't really have any way of knowing where she stayed. Who knows her friend might cover for her.

The OM is not married, he was a while ago but from what I know his wife divorced him probably for cheating and being a piece of sh*t.


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## Lovemytruck

SF-FAN said:


> I don't know if she is still seeing him, I don't know what she truly wants, I really don't know anything except for that fact that I am hurting more than I've ever hurt before and it's hard to not want to talk to her and make things better.


You are in the conundrum that faces most BHs, your source of comfort is the same person that causes your pain.

You need to find a different source of comfort. Not in a bar. Not in a drink. A good friend or family member that has your back. Don't use a possible friend that could wind up as a new partner for you.

Do not seek comfort from her. She is not in a position to offer you what you seek.


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## alte Dame

You have said that your WW had an affair four years ago and lied like a champ about it even when you confronted her with evidence. She broke down and admitted it when she absolutely had to. And you've been posting that she is cold to you and has been for the last year.

She was with the OM the whole time she was cold - at least. She is still almost certainly in her affair with him.

This is terrible for you, I know, but you absolutely need to get some perspective apart from the pain you feel. So..force yourself to implement a 180:

The Healing Heart: The 180

Your WW is a consummate liar with words. Her actions, her sneakiness, purposeful lying, and coldness paint the bigger and truer picture. Do the 180 and get some distance so you can see this picture much more clearly.


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## 3putt

SF-FAN said:


> The OM is not married, he was a while ago but from what I know his wife divorced him probably for cheating and being a piece of sh*t.


Just how do you know this?


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## SF-FAN

3putt said:


> Just how do you know this?


Funny enough, my WW used to talk bad about him and told me.


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## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> I don't know if she is still seeing him, I don't know what she truly wants, I really don't know anything except for that fact that I am hurting more than I've ever hurt before and it's hard to not want to talk to her and make things better.


Many of us have been there, and I am sorry to say this when I KNOW how much you're hurting, but you have GOT to snap out of it.

Who cares what the frak SHE wants?? That shouldn't even be on your radar right now. You need to get MAD here.


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## Chris989

SF-FAN said:


> She called from her friend's house last night and said I could talk to her. Aside from calling her friend and asking, I don't really have any way of knowing where she stayed. Who knows her friend might cover for her.
> 
> The OM is not married, he was a while ago but from what I know his wife divorced him probably for cheating and being a piece of sh*t.


This is your WIFE. CALL HER FRIEND.

Go around to her friend's.

Find where the OM lives and GO THERE.

FIND YOUR WIFE. 

She will not respect you if you do nothing to get her back. Even if you don't want her back, do something for your own self respect!

Edit/ If a friend of mine was acting like this, apart from SHOUTING AT HIM I would go around, pick him up, and start driving around to where this woman is supposed to be and take it from there.


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## Philat

SF-FAN said:


> Funny enough, my WW used to talk bad about him and told me.


A smokescreen.


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## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Funny enough, my WW used to talk bad about him and told me.


Typical ruse of the cheater. Bet she did the same to him about you??


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## SF-FAN

alte Dame said:


> You have said that your WW had an affair four years ago and lied like a champ about it even when you confronted her with evidence. She broke down and admitted it when she absolutely had to. And you've been posting that she is cold to you and has been for the last year.
> 
> She was with the OM the whole time she was cold - at least. She is still almost certainly in her affair with him.
> 
> This is terrible for you, I know, but you absolutely need to get some perspective apart from the pain you feel. So..force yourself to implement a 180:
> 
> The Healing Heart: The 180
> 
> Your WW is a consummate liar with words. Her actions, her sneakiness, purposeful lying, and coldness paint the bigger and truer picture. Do the 180 and get some distance so you can see this picture much more clearly.


Thanks for posting that. I will start the 180 immediately. The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.

Additionally, though it's already happened, the thought of another guy having sex with her absolutely devastates me. The mind movies are on overdrive right now.

And lastly, I wear my emotions on my sleeve so it is hard for me to act like nothing is wrong especially now, one of the hardest times in my life.


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## Will_Kane

SF-FAN said:


> She called from her friend's house last night and said I could talk to her. Aside from calling her friend and asking, I don't really have any way of knowing where she stayed. Who knows her friend might cover for her.
> 
> The OM is not married, he was a while ago but from what I know his wife divorced him probably for cheating and being a piece of sh*t.


If she had stopped seeing him, she would have told you that already.

If you want to save your marriage, you have to take charge and tell her what you need from her. You can't do it for her, but you can't expect her to know what to do. No more contact, transparency, and the truth are good starting points.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert

SF-FAN said:


> Funny enough, my WW used to talk bad about him and told me.


Yes my wife did the same. This is cheater scripted


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## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks for posting that. I will start the 180 immediately. The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.
> 
> Additionally, though it's already happened, the thought of another guy having sex with her absolutely devastates me. The mind movies are on overdrive right now.
> 
> And lastly, I wear my emotions on my sleeve so it is hard for me to act like nothing is wrong especially now, one of the hardest times in my life.


Just remember and keep telling yourself, that physical beauty is only on the outside and she is actually ugly within. She is a known cheater, which is the reason for exposure, so everyone is aware, with baggae (a failed marriage and kids in tow), so after a while the whole package just isn't very attractive to a new man in her life (other cheaters and ONS will overlook it, but if that is what she is left to, she can have it I say).


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## SF-FAN

Will_Kane said:


> If she had stopped seeing him, she would have told you that already.
> 
> If you want to save your marriage, you have to take charge and tell her what you need from her. You can't do it for her, but you can't expect her to know what to do. No more contact, transparency, and the truth are good starting points.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The transparency part was discussed before she left but we have not talked enough to come to a conclusion. She did say she would go to MC but again nothing is set yet.


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## Chris989

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks for posting that. I will start the 180 immediately. The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.
> 
> Additionally, though it's already happened, the thought of another guy having sex with her absolutely devastates me. The mind movies are on overdrive right now.
> 
> And lastly, I wear my emotions on my sleeve so it is hard for me to act like nothing is wrong especially now, one of the hardest times in my life.


You don't act "like nothing is wrong". You act like you are extremely angry about what she did and that she has to earn her place with you.

You act like you will not tolerate her cheating - whether you stay together or not.

The first night I found out, my wife was begging to be let into my bedroom. Crying. She was hysterical. Yes, I was in more pain than I have ever felt - physical or emotional - but I was also BLOODY ANGRY.

That is how you have to be. 

Get angry and get doing something. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.


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## Will_Kane

Doesn't sound like she cares.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks for posting that. I will start the 180 immediately. The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.
> 
> Additionally, though it's already happened, the thought of another guy having sex with her absolutely devastates me. The mind movies are on overdrive right now.
> 
> And lastly, I wear my emotions on my sleeve so it is hard for me to act like nothing is wrong especially now, one of the hardest times in my life.


When you think of how attractive she is, remind yourself that she's being a pretty ugly person by abusing you. Acting desperate won't stop her from having sex with other men, it hasn't so far... now that you know, and have proof, you need to be strong and show her you're the prettier one now that she's shown her ugly side. Once you and her realize that you DO have options, you can find someone else, and probably will if she keeps up her wicked ways... then you'll have a chance. With your current attitude, you're screwed... Grow a pair, step up, be a man etc... all those cliches NOW. Be in control, that's powerful and females like men that show they are powerful and in control, not weak and needy.


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## alte Dame

SF-FAN said:


> The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.


I wish you didn't feel this way about yourself. You have a loyal heart. This is VERY attractive to equally loyal, stable women, no matter what their looks, no matter what your looks.

This isn't just 'Dr. Phil'-speak. Your WW is breaking your heart because she has something broken in her. She is selfish and self-absorbed to the point of not caring that what she does hurts you, the man she vowed to love and be faithful to. Her looks may make her physically attractive to men, but her actions make her the opposite of a good catch.

Again, try to do the 180. It will be hard, but it gets easier once a bit of time has passed. You need to rebuild your strength, emotional and physical.


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## SF-FAN

I don't know where the OM lives but I did send him a text to tell him I found out what they did and that he and my wife are scum. Told him to stay away from my family. He will either text back with something disrespectful or not text back at all.

I am angry but the pain is making me weak. I am going to implement the 180 and am doing so now. Trust me, I feel like calling/texting her and spewing the anger I feel but I'm not.


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## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> The transparency part was discussed before she left but we have not talked enough to come to a conclusion. She did say she would go to MC but again nothing is set yet.


She should be setting up the MC, and letting you know about when it's set.. if she ever wants to get back in the house, and have any shot at being with you going forward....

How to get that? Make yourself more important than her OM.. 

How do you do that? Expose the POS to his family and friends.. do a background check on him, let her know after you're done, not before..

Change the locks, put her stuff out.. Tell her you're filing for divorce, and you'd like to use a mediator so you don't have to pay too much to lawyers. 

Go have some fun, don't drink, but do stuff that you enjoy.. 

Work on yourself, things that make you look and feel good, like exercise and eating right.. 

Search online dating sites to see that there are plenty of attractive women out there looking for men.. Not saying contact them, saying look to see that there are people out there looking, and they aren't all hideous...


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## Dyokemm

If I remember right, isn't this her SECOND A in the past 4 years?

SF-Fan,

She is a serial cheat. Its who and what she is and always will be.

She has no remorse for what she has now put you through TWICE.

You need to D ASAP....you deserve better.


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## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> The transparency part was discussed before she left but we have not talked enough to come to a conclusion. She did say she would go to MC but again nothing is set yet.


MC is not going to do the two of you any good until you 1) have verified that the affair is over, and 2) she is acting remorseful. Until then, save your money. IC for her might - MIGHT - do some good, if she decides she really wants to get to the root of her problems. Otherwise, it's just lip service.


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## Hope1964

And as far as transparency, she has NOTHING to say about it. You TELL her that you require it. If she does not comply, tell her to pack her bags and move out for good.

Seriously dude. Grow a backbone here, please???


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## Will_Kane

No offense meant, but you have been and are too "soft" with her. She doesn't respect you and looks at you as weak. What you see as loving and forgiving she sees as weakness and desperation to keep her at all costs. She has no doubt you will stay as long as she wants you to. She just does not wsnt the bad rep of a cheater, maybe some financial issues, too, but she is not worried about you or the kids. You are all broken up that your marriage might end, but she is in no hurry to fix things up. She knows you won't dump her and even if you did, it's not that big a deal to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris989

SF-FAN said:


> I don't know where the OM lives but I did send him a text to tell him I found out what they did and that he and my wife are scum. Told him to stay away from my family. He will either text back with something disrespectful or not text back at all.
> 
> I am angry but the pain is making me weak. I am going to implement the 180 and am doing so now. Trust me, I feel like calling/texting her and spewing the anger I feel but I'm not.


There is no point in calling/texting her. She will just see that as being weak.

Either do something or prepare for a rough ride.

There are all sorts of ways of finding someone's address. I paid for an electoral roll search in the rough area to find the POSOM's address.

Pain can make you feel weak, but allowing yourself to sink further into a depression is debilitating. Use your anger to take action.

Throw her stuff out - you can't lock her out although you can make it difficult for her to get in (lock the doors so she has to request to come in but don't prevent her from entering the property).

Box her stuff up that you haven't thrown out.

Show that you are serious. Doing the 180 is meaningless at the moment, it is a medium to long term move when you need short term action.


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## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> And as far as transparency, she has NOTHING to say about it. You TELL her that you require it. If she does not comply, tell her to pack her bags and move out for good.
> 
> Seriously dude. Grow a backbone here, please???


I demanded that but she didn't say o.k. and left shortly thereafter. I intend on showing her how big my sack is, trust me. If she does not agree to transparency from here on out, there's nothing to work on.


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## Chris989

SF-FAN said:


> I demanded that but she didn't say o.k. and left shortly thereafter. I intend on showing her how big my sack is, trust me. If she does not agree to transparency from here on out, there's nothing to work on.


So she comes back - fresh from another man's bed - and you say "YOU MUST BE TRANSPARENT I DEMAND IT WOMAN".

She says "Ok, I promise just like I promised last time. Lol". Then she carries on - because you've done nothing. It's all words.

edit/ I know this sounds harsh, but we've been where you are. It plays out on here all the time.


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## SF-FAN

Yes I agree with everyone that says that I've been too soft. I have, I am a forgiving and nice person, I hate that. I wish I was more cold hearted like her. Every time I think of what she did or her and the POSOM gone for the weekend, the anger comes back though. I'm not laying down this time. I don't deserve to get treated like that.


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## Hope1964

Well there's no use in demanding transparency NOW. You gave her time to delete anything incriminating.


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## SF-FAN

I am meeting with a divorce attorney asap, implementing the 180 and though it's going to be hard, attempt to move on.


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## Hope1964

Call her friend. Right now. And ask whether she stayed there or not. If the friend hesitates you have your answer. The worst that could happen is the friend lies for her and you still don't know. That's the same place you are right now, isn't it??


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## Clay2013

SF-FAN said:


> I am meeting with a divorce attorney asap, implementing the 180 and though it's going to be hard, attempt to move on.


Good for you. Take back control of your life. 

Clay


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## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> Well there's no use in demanding transparency NOW. You gave her time to delete anything incriminating.


The affair has come to light so it really doesn't matter what else there is. To me she has talked to him everyday and possibly had sex with him everyday up until this moment so I don't care what there is. I have proof she did it at least once.

She is a POS and he is a POS.


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## lostmyreligion

Her actions do not define you.

Your reaction to them does.

As so many others have said here, find your ANGER(!) and act accordingly.


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## workindad

MC won't help with another man in your marriage. 

Her telling you he is divorced may or may not be accurate. Maybe she was hedging her bets to prevent you from calling his wife. Who knows. See if you can verify his status independent of her claims.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SF-FAN

What I want to know is why does the cheater ultimately get what she wants and the loyal spouse is usually left hurting. What I mean is that I'm sure she feels that if our marriage doesn't work, she can just continue the relationship with the OM and now it will be in the open so no love lost for her.

Meanwhile, I am left feeling alone without anyone. Is that the way it works?


----------



## 3putt

Squeakr said:


> Typical ruse of the cheater. Bet she did the same to him about you??


Yep, never forget SF....waywards LIE. Better than average chance he's still married and his wife has NO idea what her husband's up to. Verify this yourself.


----------



## workindad

A hard line is your best bet. 

Either she wakes up and demonstrates remorse thru her actions or she gets left behind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lovemytruck

SF-FAN said:


> The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.


Not to pick at you, but this is a bad foundation for a healthy relationship.

You are being devalued by yourself and sounding needy.

Attraction is great in a healthy relationship, but when it is perceived to be lop-sided you are headed for trouble.

Cut your losses, and work on a new you.

Take her off of the throne you have built for her, and start working on a new kingdom. Find a different princess. I don't care if you are ugly and poor. Your attractiveness can be improved by doing healthy things and by striving to work on yourself. Confidence and success will draw better women than your looks ever will.

Don't base your "love" for a woman on her looks. Love is something that grows from within a healthy relationship. Attractiveness is enhanced as you discover what is in their heart.

Someday you might find love. I think your discription of love is lacking.

God bless your broken heart. You can do this. Many of us have made it through, and are better because of it.


----------



## MrHappyHat

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks for posting that. I will start the 180 immediately. The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.



I'll take less attractive and faithful over an attractive cheater any day.


----------



## SF-FAN

Lovemytruck said:


> Not to pick at you, but this is a bad foundation for a healthy relationship.
> 
> You are being devalued by yourself and sounding needy.
> 
> Attraction is great in a healthy relationship, but when it is perceived to be lop-sided you are headed for trouble.
> 
> Cut your losses, and work on a new you.
> 
> Take her off of the throne you have built for her, and start working on a new kingdom. Find a different princess. I don't care if you are ugly and poor. Your attractiveness can be improved by doing healthy things and by striving to work on yourself. Confidence and success will draw better women than your looks ever will.
> 
> Don't base your "love" for a woman on her looks. Love is something that grows from within a healthy relationship. Attractiveness is enhanced as you discover what is in their heart.
> 
> Someday you might find love. I think your discription of love is lacking.
> 
> God bless your broken heart. You can do this. Many of us have made it through, and are better because of it.


Thanks, your comments have a lot of truth to them. My self esteem is shattered and she has a lot to do with it, not just because of the affair but comments she's made when in arguments.

How do you get passed the mind movies and knowing someone else touched your wife how only you are supposed to touch her?


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> What I want to know is why does the cheater ultimately get what she wants and the loyal spouse is usually left hurting. What I mean is that I'm sure she feels that if our marriage doesn't work, she can just continue the relationship with the OM and now it will be in the open so no love lost for her.


And then what do you think will happen? Stats for relationships that start as infidelity show that the chances of them remaining together are practically nil. She'll end up old, ugly and alone.



SF-FAN said:


> Meanwhile, I am left feeling alone without anyone. Is that the way it works?


OK, I know you've had a lot thrown at you today, but this is the wrong attitude. You do NOT need 'anyone' to be happy and complete. In fact, unless you figure out how to be happy BY YOURSELF, you will never find true happiness with someone, because you will always be dependent on THEM for your happiness. And you'll continue to seem needy and weak. What you need to do - what EVERYONE really needs to do - is to figure out how to be happy as just YOU. Define your OWN happiness. Only THEN can you make a CHOICE to be with someone, rather than being with someone because you need them to be happy.

This does not mean you are alone - there are, what, 7 billion people besides you and your wife on the planet? If you are alone it will be by choice. Find friends, outside interests, family, whatever. Get a couple of FWB if you want. Whatever. But get yourself happy as YOU. Not as you-and-someone-else.


----------



## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> And then what do you think will happen? Stats for relationships that start as infidelity show that the chances of them remaining together are practically nil. She'll end up old, ugly and alone.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I know you've had a lot thrown at you today, but this is the wrong attitude. You do NOT need 'anyone' to be happy and complete. In fact, unless you figure out how to be happy BY YOURSELF, you will never find true happiness with someone, because you will always be dependent on THEM for your happiness. And you'll continue to seem needy and weak. What you need to do - what EVERYONE really needs to do - is to figure out how to be happy as just YOU. Define your OWN happiness. Only THEN can you make a CHOICE to be with someone, rather than being with someone because you need them to be happy.
> 
> This does not mean you are alone - there are, what, 7 billion people besides you and your wife on the planet? If you are alone it will be by choice. Find friends, outside interests, family, whatever. Get a couple of FWB if you want. Whatever. But get yourself happy as YOU. Not as you-and-someone-else.


Before I met her, I was fine by myself. I had learned to be happy alone. Somewhere in this marriage I lost that and need to find it again.


----------



## SF-FAN

And to top it off, they're playing slow jams here at work. Really??


----------



## ThePheonix

SF, I've said many times before that if a woman stays with you, it doesn't matter how much you love and need her. What keeps her around, and out of someone else's arms is how much she loves you. Additionally, a woman who loves you, in a romantic sense, does not treat you cold. 
Take my word for it Dawg, this chick's done lost interest in you. Few want to believe me but folks have it backwards when they think the affair causes this loss of interest. Its the other way around my man. She lost interest in you and the marriage long before her trip to the hotel. Ending the affair in order to drive her back to you is a short term solution to your long term misery. You may bust up the affair, but that ain't gonna make her have the hots for you.
Also you don't need to be whining about how much trouble you'll have replacing her. You won't. 



MrHappyHat said:


> I'll take less attractive and faithful over an attractive cheater any day.


Believe what this ole boy is saying Dawg.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> What I want to know is why does the cheater ultimately get what she wants and the loyal spouse is usually left hurting. What I mean is that I'm sure she feels that if our marriage doesn't work, she can just continue the relationship with the OM and now it will be in the open so no love lost for her.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am left feeling alone without anyone. Is that the way it works?


First off...bro...Im sorry. The pain is unimaginable, I know. There is a lot going on in this thread and as much as I want to chime in on all of it, I wont. Ill speak strictly to this quote. 

"Ultimately" you decide how this turns out. She will never get "what she wants". She is cheating wh*#@ who exchanged a marriage, family and your trust for another scumbag cheater. I can promise you that at some point, you will be the winner and she will be the looser. Your wife is hot, so what. You expose the **** out of her, tell everyone, cheatervill.com, facebook, family, friends. No REAL man will ever take her serious. As for you, when you feel like it, you are going to workout, get in great shape, eat healthy, work hard at work and be successful. When that happens, each day when you walk out the door you will be taking numbers telling women to get line to be the next Mrs. SF-Fan, their competition will be steep.


----------



## adriana

SF-FAN said:


> The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.



SF-FAN, this attitude is likely the main problem in your marriage. On subconscious level you don't feel equal to your wife. She realizes it and, as a result, doesn't respect you as much as she should. Most woman can easily detect even the slightest traces of insecurity in their partners. You need to start working on changing it otherwise you have no real chance to reconcile with her.


----------



## SF-FAN

ThePheonix said:


> SF, I've said many times before that if a woman stays with you, it doesn't matter how much you love and need her. What keeps her around, and out of someone else's arms is how much she loves you. Additionally, a woman who loves you, in a romantic sense, does not treat you cold.
> Take my word for it Dawg, this chick's done lost interest in you. Few want to believe me but folks have it backwards when they think the affair causes this loss of interest. Its the other way around my man. She lost interest in you and the marriage long before her trip to the hotel. Ending the affair in order to drive her back to you is a short term solution to your long term misery. You may bust up the affair, but that ain't gonna make her have the hots for you.
> Also you don't need to be whining about how much trouble you'll have replacing her. You won't.


You're right. Just hard to see the bigger picture in the midst of all this f*cked up sh*t.


----------



## SF-FAN

adriana said:


> SF-FAN, this attitude is likely the main problem in your marriage. On subconscious level you don't feel equal to your wife. She realizes it and, as a result, doesn't respect you as much as she should. Most woman can easily detect even the slightest traces of insecurity in their partners. You need to start working on changing it otherwise you have no real chance to reconcile with her.


I agree and didn't see it. I lost weight years ago, am in law school and though I don't make big bucks now, I am not ugly and am a good husband and even better father.

The OM is a cook at her damn job...that's it. It has to be my attitude. I have been way to insecure.


----------



## sinnister

Sorry man. Sounds like she's wanted out for a while.


----------



## Lovemytruck

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks, your comments have a lot of truth to them. My self esteem is shattered and she has a lot to do with it, not just because of the affair but comments she's made when in arguments.
> 
> How do you get passed the mind movies and knowing someone else touched your wife how only you are supposed to touch her?


Glad you have the perspective on your shattered ego.

Why could you not attract a woman a second time? You did it once, you certainly can do it again.

I get the ego thing. I was reduced to ruble when I was in your shoes. The ego comes back when you remove the source of your problem. I believe it is easier for most men to D than to R. It has much to do with the devastation that is caused by the affair.

Mind movies add to your problem. I am to the point where I honestly hope my exWW gets re-married and has a great life with her new husband. It is ok to let her go and wish her well.

Mind movies end with your WW when *you* have a change of heart. Mind movies are replaced with new goals, new dreams, and new relationships. It is a challenge to let go of the bitterness and re-establish yourself with a new woman. It also can be very rewarding.

I don't know how to do that with a woman that has deliberately hurt me. It is difficult to trust the one that has harmed you the most. Why should you?

Forgiveness is something you do when you are past the betrayal. Forgiveness is easier when you are in a better frame of mind. I don't think you can get there with this one. I think you need some space, time, and a new relationship without the pain before you can offer her the grace you have been giving her.

Don't wallow in guilt. You are loyal to a fault. Guilt for moving on is emotion poorly spent. You can do this. I did. I was in a similar spot.

Place your faith in yourself, not with her. Move forward in a new path.


----------



## ConanHub

I really don't think cheating skanks are very attractive.
I have seen many pretty faces that can't turn my head because the "aroma" of a well used wh0re was wafting from their orifices.

Stop looking at her like she is beautiful, she is a piece of well slobbered on meat that will only attract mongrels.
You deserve better! Start believing that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

Lovemytruck said:


> Glad you have the perspective on your shattered ego.
> 
> Why could you not attract a woman a second time? You did it once, you certainly can do it again.
> 
> I get the ego thing. I was reduced to ruble when I was in your shoes. The ego comes back when you remove the source of your problem. I believe it is easier for most men to D than to R. It has much to do with the devastation that is caused by the affair.
> 
> Mind movies add to your problem. I am to the point where I honestly hope my exWW gets re-married and has a great life with her new husband. It is ok to let her go and wish her well.
> 
> Mind movies end with your WW when *you* have a change of heart. Mind movies are replaced with new goals, new dreams, and new relationships. It is a challenge to let go of the bitterness and re-establish yourself with a new woman. It also can be very rewarding.
> 
> I don't know how to do that with a woman that has deliberately hurt me. It is difficult to trust the one that has harmed you the most. Why should you?
> 
> Forgiveness is something you do when you are past the betrayal. Forgiveness is easier when you are in a better frame of mind. I don't think you can get there with this one. I think you need some space, time, and a new relationship without the pain before you can offer her the grace you have been giving her.
> 
> Don't wallow in guilt. You are loyal to a fault. *Guilt for moving on is emotion poorly spent*. You can do this. I did. I was in a similar spot.
> 
> Place your faith in yourself, not with her. Move forward in a new path.


It is almost like I feel bad for her. She is mentally unstable and I feel bad for her. I also do feel a bit of guilt for planning to move forward and leaving her behind to deal with her own rent, car payments, etc. because she only has a part time job. Why do I feel bad and guilty???


----------



## Squeakr

ConanHub said:


> I really don't think cheating skanks are very attractive.
> I have seen many pretty faces that can't turn my head because the "aroma" of a well used wh0re was wafting from their orifices.
> 
> Stop looking at her like she is beautiful, she is a piece of well slobbered on meat that will only attract mongrels.
> You deserve better! Start believing that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is how we want to view them, but it is also counter productive to raising children with them, as we are the role models for our children and we don't want to damage them anymore than they already are.


----------



## Will_Kane

SF-FAN said:


> What I want to know is why does the cheater ultimately get what she wants and the loyal spouse is usually left hurting. What I mean is that I'm sure she feels that if our marriage doesn't work, she can just continue the relationship with the OM and now it will be in the open so no love lost for her.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am left feeling alone without anyone. Is that the way it works?


Yes, if she can be happy being dishonest to those she loves, then she can go on and be happy. The trick is for you to realize that you will be much better off without her. It is a mistake to put such a high value on looks while putting almost none on love, honesty, and respect.

Bottom line, what does it matter if she can be happy living so selfishly? You can't. Does it matter that the addict lying on the park bench seems so happy and carefree? He can be happy doing that, but you can't. There's no sense in dwelling on it. Tell her what you expect and accept nothing less. If she can't or won't do it, move on and let her be happy as a selfish liar.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Sorry you are going through this SFFan.. and right after San Franciso lost the championship...man that sucks. Double whammy. 

Do what everyone here is telling you here....

1) Hard 180. Do not talk to her about anything for a few days except allowing her times to see the kids. It wont her hurt her to stay away from the kids for a week or so. 

2) Get the divorce filed and going.

3) Change the locks. Go to HomeDepot and get a packaged pair and put them in yourself. Its not that difficult. 

4) Make her stay away. Pack her crap and put it out on the front porch in garbage bags. 

5) Separate your finances NOW. Call all your CC companies and have any joint cards suspended/cancelled. Have your paycheck forwarded to a new account in your name only. Pull out half of any joint savings and put those in new accounts under your name. 

6) If they are old enough to understand, tell your kids the truth in non-explicit terms. 

7) Expose, expose, expose to everyone. Put the Om on Cheaterville. 

8) Go to a doctor, tell him what is going on and see if he will put you on a mild mood stabilizer. Zoloft works very well to help control the "rollercoaster" mood swings you are experiencing. Taking two Benadryl before bed can help you sleep better. 

9) Don't mope. Get out and live. Go to the gym, go hang out with your buddies. If the kids are young get a babysitter and go out once a week.


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> What I want to know is why does the cheater ultimately get what she wants and the loyal spouse is usually left hurting. What I mean is that I'm sure she feels that if our marriage doesn't work, she can just continue the relationship with the OM and now it will be in the open so no love lost for her.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am left feeling alone without anyone. Is that the way it works?



Go read some of the reconcile threads. People have come back from worse. Others haven't. 

All the advice here is solid. We don't ever have to do these threads honestly. The script is always the same. 

I'll give you some different advice. Read the book "no more mr nice guy". Then once your in a better place, read "married man sex primer." 

Your coming from a scarcity position. I used to do it to. You need to disconnect from your wife and stop tying your emotional outcome to her. It's a world of plenty. When you're right with yourself you'll see that you can have her or leave her, your choice. Otherwise there are plenty of women, probably better, who would gladly full her shoes (and bed). Heck, go read the singles section, about all those ladies who want a good man. 

Fix yourself. The. The healing will start.


----------



## ConanHub

Squeakr said:


> This is how we want to view them, but it is also counter productive to raising children with them, as we are the role models for our children and we don't want to damage them anymore than they already are.


I'm not saying he needs to share this view with his kids but he does need to realize she really is POS bait.

OP sounds like he is too down on himself when it is his wife who should be feeling ugly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

bandit.45 said:


> Sorry you are going through this SFFan.. and right after San Franciso lost the championship...man that sucks.


I thought SF meant science fiction. Clarification is required


----------



## Lovemytruck

SF-FAN said:


> It is almost like I feel bad for her. She is mentally unstable and I feel bad for her. I also do feel a bit of guilt for planning to move forward and leaving her behind to deal with her own rent, car payments, etc. because she only has a part time job. Why do I feel bad and guilty???


I felt bad too. It becomes a sense of pity as you rationalize through her causes and effects. If she is a big girl and has the ablitity to attract men, she will find a new dude with more money than brains. Lol! Trust me on this!

You will see her in a new light once you file for D and start negotiating the settlement.

There is something good to be said about having a second chance at a new relationship with your newly discovered wisdom. I feel it is much easier to choose a better partner as you learn about people and yourself.


----------



## SF-FAN

Lovemytruck said:


> I felt bad too. It becomes a sense of pity as you rationalize through her causes and effects. * If she is a big girl and has the ablitity to attract men, she will find a new dude with more money than brains.* Lol! Trust me on this!
> 
> You will see her in a new light once you file for D and start negotiating the settlement.
> 
> There is something good to be said about having a second chance at a new relationship with your newly discovered wisdom. I feel it is much easier to choose a better partner as you learn about people and yourself.


That's probably what she wants. She complains about money and our small house like if she deserves to be in a mansion and be catered to. She's put me down for not making enough money.

That's what kills me, she may find someone with more money and get a better financial life...a reward of sorts for cheating on me??


----------



## alte Dame

I think you have to start seeing your real worth & stop wallowing in insecurity. Realistically, you are the better option for the opposite sex than she is. You're in law school; she's having an A with a cook. It's not touchy feely 'I am worth something' that I am talking about. It's biological and real. You will understand that you are a good catch if you change the calculus in your head. She, however, is not a good bet. It doesn't matter how attractive she is physically. 

If you can do the hard work of rebuilding yourself, you will not only intellectually understand that she doesn't deserve you, you will feel it, too.


----------



## SF-FAN

alte Dame said:


> I think you have to start seeing your real worth & stop wallowing in insecurity. Realistically, you are the better option for the opposite sex than she is. You're in law school; she's having an A with a cook. It's not touchy feely 'I am worth something' that I am talking about. It's biological and real. You will understand that you are a good catch if you change the calculus in your head. She, however, is not a good bet. It doesn't matter how attractive she is physically.
> 
> If you can do the hard work of rebuilding yourself, you will not only intellectually understand that she doesn't deserve you, you will feel it, too.


You are absolutely right, why can't I see that now?


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> That's probably what she wants. She complains about money and our small house like if she deserves to be in a mansion and be catered to. She's put me down for not making enough money.
> 
> That's what kills me, she may find someone with more money and get a better financial life...a reward of sorts for cheating on me??


It's ;like when they get primary custody of the kids, have more visitation with them, and also get child support and alimony. It seems like they hit the cheater lottery! From the outside, people wonder why people would cheat on someone they loved, but when they are not punished for their actions what do they have to lose?


----------



## SF-FAN

What's also another mindf*ck is that within the last week or so, she was more affectionate, more like the girl I married. Not cold at all...then I find this out..WTF?


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> It's ;like when they get primary custody of the kids, have more visitation with them, and also get child support and alimony. It seems like they hit the cheater lottery! From the outside, people wonder why people would cheat on someone they loved, but when they are not punished for their actions what do they have to lose?


Exactly.


----------



## MSP

SF-FAN said:


> That's probably what she wants. She complains about money and our small house like if she deserves to be in a mansion and be catered to. She's put me down for not making enough money.
> 
> That's what kills me, she may find someone with more money and get a better financial life...a reward of sorts for cheating on me??


Let it go.

Don't let her selfishness mitigate your own potential for happiness. Replace the painful mind games with bright possibilities.


----------



## Dyokemm

"How do you get passed the mind movies and knowing someone else touched your wife how only you are supposed to touch her?"

By getting in touch with your anger and pride as a man and taking ACTIONS that hold them both accountable and show you will never tolerate others disrespecting you in this way.

They're co-workers?

Expose them at work and tell them you are looking into an alienation of affection lawsuit if the company does nothing to address this POS destroying your M.

Get them both fired and rain as much h**l down on their lives as possible.

SHOW them why you are a man neither of them should have ever F'd with.

With her, kick her to the curb HARD...with contempt and absolute rejection.

For him, ruin every bit of his reputation and life possible.

And pray he is stupid enough to come after you physically for crushing his life, as this will give you a free pass to beat the living s**t out of his scummy a** for what he has done to your childrens' and your lives.


----------



## Chris989

SF-FAN said:


> Exactly.


The point is, you are probably still in a position to get this back, but you seem to be, to be blunt, wallowing in self pity.

It is not only very, very, unattractive to your wife it is a very bad place for you to be.

You have both been in the same marriage and she has decided to cheat. How, exactly, does this make her a good catch?

It makes *you* a good catch - if only you can see past your self pity.


----------



## warlock07

There is nothing to save in this marriage.

This should be a deal breaker. This should be a dealbreaker if you have an ounce of self respect. You would be an idiot if you even entertain thoughts thoughts of reconciling. This marriage is absolutely dead. No, there is no "rebuilding a new marriage" it like the TAM cliche goes. 

You are better off not being married to her. If you have kids, they are better off with you separated because they need a father who has some hope in life. She pretty much sucked your soul out of you. Look at what you have become. Insecure(according to you), needy(according to her), everything you do, you question it again in light of her actions..

Tell her mother. You just found one receipt.


----------



## just got it 55

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks for posting that. I will start the 180 immediately. The trouble I've always had and still do is the fact that she is an attractive girl that will probably have tons of guys ready to step into my position and I on the other hand am average looking at best and feel I will have trouble finding anyone much less as attractive as her.
> 
> Additionally, though it's already happened, the thought of another guy having sex with her absolutely devastates me. The mind movies are on overdrive right now.
> 
> And lastly, I wear my emotions on my sleeve so it is hard for me to act like nothing is wrong especially now, one of the hardest times in my life.


The best emotion you can show her right now is contempt

55


----------



## warlock07

SF-FAN said:


> What's also another mindf*ck is that within the last week or so, she was more affectionate, more like the girl I married. Not cold at all...then I find this out..WTF?


She probably got dumped or they had a quarrel.


----------



## Squeakr

Dyokemm said:


> Expose them at work and tell them you are looking into an alienation of affection lawsuit if the company does nothing to address this POS destroying your M.


Alienation of Affection is a tort violation and not recognized within the state of CA. Also, unless the company has a written policy against this type of fraternization (which you can guess most restaurants won't), the company is not liable for the A. Even if they do have a policy, you would have to prove that they used company resources and time to "afford" affair, which could be hard to prove. You would also have to prove the company had knowledge of the A and let it continue and therefor show they were responsible.


----------



## SF-FAN

Dyokemm said:


> "How do you get passed the mind movies and knowing someone else touched your wife how only you are supposed to touch her?"
> 
> By getting in touch with your anger and pride as a man and taking ACTIONS that hold them both accountable and show you will never tolerate others disrespecting you in this way.
> 
> They're co-workers?
> 
> Expose them at work and tell them you are looking into an *alienation of affection lawsuit* if the company does nothing to address this POS destroying your M.
> 
> Get them both fired and rain as much h**l down on their lives as possible.
> 
> SHOW them why you are a man neither of them should have ever F'd with.
> 
> With her, kick her to the curb HARD...with contempt and absolute rejection.
> 
> For him, ruin every bit of his reputation and life possible.
> 
> And pray he is stupid enough to come after you physically for crushing his life, as this will give you a free pass to beat the living s**t out of his scummy a** for what he has done to your childrens' and your lives.


Unfortunately California doesn't have this anymore.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> "How do you get passed the mind movies and knowing someone else touched your wife how only you are supposed to touch her?"
> 
> By getting in touch with your anger and pride as a man and taking ACTIONS that hold them both accountable and show you will never tolerate others disrespecting you in this way.
> 
> They're co-workers?
> 
> Expose them at work and tell them you are looking into an alienation of affection lawsuit if the company does nothing to address this POS destroying your M.
> 
> Get them both fired and rain as much h**l down on their lives as possible.
> 
> SHOW them why you are a man neither of them should have ever F'd with.
> 
> With her, kick her to the curb HARD...with contempt and absolute rejection.
> 
> For him, ruin every bit of his reputation and life possible.
> 
> And pray he is stupid enough to come after you physically for crushing his life, as this will give you a free pass to beat the living s**t out of his scummy a** for what he has done to your childrens' and your lives.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> Alienation of Affection is a tort violation and not recognized within the state of CA. Also, unless the company has a written policy against this type of fraternization (which you can guess most restaurants won't), the company is not liable for the A. Even if they do have a policy, you would have to prove that they used company resources and time to "afford" affair, which could be hard to prove. You would also have to prove the company had knowledge of the A and let it continue and therefor show they were responsible.


Plus the boss/owner is just as big of a douche as the OM. His wife is an attorney so it wouldn't cost him anything and he'd probably try to cover the whole thing up.


----------



## Chaparral

SF-FAN said:


> It is almost like I feel bad for her. She is mentally unstable and I feel bad for her. I also do feel a bit of guilt for planning to move forward and leaving her behind to deal with her own rent, car payments, etc. because she only has a part time job. Why do I feel bad and guilty???


This is what you need to tell her.

"Me and everyone else think you have been cheating again for a year. This isn't your first time. That makes you a serial cheater. The experts say that can't be fixed. Good luck."


----------



## just got it 55

SF-FAN said:


> It is almost like I feel bad for her. She is mentally unstable and I feel bad for her. I also do feel a bit of guilt for planning to move forward and leaving her behind to deal with her own rent, car payments, etc. because she only has a part time job. *Why do I feel bad and guilty???*




Read NNMNG then you will get that answer

Then kick yourself in the @ss and move forward with what you need to do .
And you know full well what that is .

55


----------



## harrybrown

It is time for war.

You need to expose and expose. Have you told the kids, her family, your family?

You have received some good advice here. Give her the divorce papers.

Glad you are doing the 180.

Remember in your past, you had a comment about how you did not cheat with the good-looking girl at work. There will be someone out there for you and hopefully she will not cheat.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> That's probably what she wants. She complains about money and our small house like if she deserves to be in a mansion and be catered to. She's put me down for not making enough money.
> 
> That's what kills me, she may find someone with more money and get a better financial life...a reward of sorts for cheating on me??


Cheaters find reasons to cheat...money, emotions, boredom, incomptability...

Let her go find herself a rich dude. Do you actually think that will make her happy? Greedy people like your wife are never satisfied, never happy. She will be happy for a couple years, but soon the boredom will set in again and she'll cheat on her next partner, just like she did with you. 

Your WW has a hole in the middle of her. No amount of money, sex, cheating, running around, girls nights out, partying will ever fill that hole. 

She's broken. Dump the b!tch, learn from your experience and move on to the next candidate.


----------



## SF-FAN

harrybrown said:


> It is time for war.
> 
> You need to expose and expose. Have you told the kids, her family, your family?
> 
> You have received some good advice here. Give her the divorce papers.
> 
> Glad you are doing the 180.
> 
> Remember in your past, you had a comment about how you did not cheat with the good-looking girl at work. There will be someone out there for you and hopefully she will not cheat.


This only happened last night (that I found out) and I do plan on exposing but how do I respond to the comment I know she will make that I am a "tattle tail" and have to run to everyone and let them know our business?

It's stupid, I know but I want to make her feel stupid when she tells me this because I know she will.


----------



## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> This only happened last night (that I found out) and I do plan on exposing but how do I respond to the comment I know she will make that I am a "tattle tail" and have to run to everyone and let them know our business?
> 
> It's stupid, I know but I want to make her feel stupid when she tells me this because I know she will.


Tell her that eventually people find these things out.. when you're living in different houses and divorced, they'll catch on. You'd rather not go down the path of being a liar, you'd prefer to go with honesty and truth over getting sucked into her lies and excuses. You're not going to help her cover up her affair, sorry, but why would you want to do that? (something along those lines)

Tell her to stop trying to twist things around to where you're doing something wrong, and you're the bad guy. It's clear where the problem is, it's the third party that she brought into the relationship. It's her putting another mans needs over yours. It has nothing to do with being a tattle tale, or running to people.. it has to do with letting them know what really happened, before she re-writes it and creates some fairy tale pile of crap for them, the same way she's been feeding it to you. Tell her you're done with her crap, she can go feed it to someone else.. 

If she uses the word "tattle tale", ask her 'what are you five? grow up'


----------



## Dyokemm

"Alienation of Affection is a tort violation and not recognized within the state of CA. Also, unless the company has a written policy against this type of fraternization (which you can guess most restaurants won't), the company is not liable for the A. Even if they do have a policy, you would have to prove that they used company resources and time to "afford" affair, which could be hard to prove. You would also have to prove the company had knowledge of the A and let it continue and therefor show they were responsible."

You are right on all of these legal points. I live in CA myself.

However, I have both experienced and seen that the vast majority of businesses WILL react to the threat of such actions or even bad publicity (posts on sights like Angie's List, etc) if you are persistent, loud, and determined.

They realize it can be a black eye for them if they are publicly known to condone immoral behavior from their employees.

But they have to be convinced the downside to blowing you off is worse than the disruption to their workforce of holding both these POS's accountable.

Few companies/owners want such a negative label being publicly attached to them, so if you are loud and determined, they are likely to do something to placate you and end the disruption.


----------



## Chris989

SF-FAN said:


> This only happened last night (that I found out) and I do plan on exposing but how do I respond to the comment I know she will make that I am a "tattle tail" and have to run to everyone and let them know our business?
> 
> It's stupid, I know but I want to make her feel stupid when she tells me this because I know she will.


Are you serious? You are worried about exposing this woman's CHEATING and BETRAYAL because she might call you a name?

I give up.


----------



## lordmayhem

warlock07 said:


> There is nothing to save in this marriage.
> 
> This should be a deal breaker. This should be a dealbreaker if you have an ounce of self respect. You would be an idiot if you even entertain thoughts thoughts of reconciling. This marriage is absolutely dead. No, there is no "rebuilding a new marriage" it like the TAM cliche goes.
> 
> You are better off not being married to her. If you have kids, they are better off with you separated because they need a father who has some hope in life. She pretty much sucked your soul out of you. Look at what you have become. Insecure(according to you), needy(according to her), everything you do, you question it again in light of her actions..
> 
> Tell her mother. You just found one receipt.


:iagree:

Look at his last thread:

In a hard place in my marriage

All the advice being given now, he was given the last time. He was advised to do the 180, which he said he did. He obviously stopped it if he has to do it now. He was advised to investigate. He was advised to tell her to quit her job with the OM. She had an affair 4 years ago, and when he brings it up, she gets defensive and storms out of the house. In spite of all that, she goes ahead and has another affair, and is now pretending to be remorseful. She knew she messed up, yeah right. 

Then SF-FAN gets defensive about some of the advice here and then disappears. 

This one is a serial cheater, an experienced one at that. She knows exactly how to play him. Will he move on? We will see, but it looks doubtful.


----------



## bandit.45

Definitely not a tattle-tale situation. You didn't steal an extra crayon off the teacher's desk...

I agree with Russel. Tell her to grow up and face what she did. 

Then notify everyone you and her know that she is a conniving, backstabbing cheat and unworthy of their loyalty. 

Do it today. The longer you wait the more excuses you will make not to. 

Every BS who has come back to this site to report six months or a year from DDay, to a man and woman, will say how they wished they had exposed right away instead of waiting or only doing it selectiveley.


----------



## lordmayhem

Chris989 said:


> Are you serious? You are worried about exposing this woman's CHEATING and BETRAYAL because she might call you a name?
> 
> I give up.


:iagree:

He didn't last time and look where it got him.


----------



## Squeakr

Yep, terminate both parties at best. In this day and age when the companies have large legal staff on retainer, threats only work when you have the standing. Since this is a civil tort and can't be brought against the company it will never make any news headlines and you would be hard pressed to find even the lowest piece of scum lawyer that would draft the letter of intent to pursue action. With no standing to sue it wouldn't even make the docket.


----------



## SF-FAN

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Look at his last thread:
> 
> In a hard place in my marriage
> 
> All the advice being given now, he was given the last time. He was advised to do the 180, which he said he did. He obviously stopped it if he has to do it now. He was advised to investigate. He was advised to tell her to quit her job with the OM. She had an affair 4 years ago, and when he brings it up, she gets defensive and storms out of the house. In spite of all that, she goes ahead and has another affair, and is now pretending to be remorseful. She knew she messed up, yeah right.
> 
> Then SF-FAN gets defensive about some of the advice here and then disappears.
> 
> This one is a serial cheater, an experienced one at that. She knows exactly how to play him. Will he move on? We will see, but it looks doubtful.


What made it hard and still makes it a little hard is the fact that the kids don't like being alone with her. I will likely not get full custody especially since only 1 of the 3 is biologically mine. I admit I have been weak in the past and still feel weak due to pain but her going to a hotel for the weekend in which she missed our kids baseball games, and carried on this affair probably still, I will not stand for. I am at work and cannot do a whole lot but I plan on doing as much as I can in terms of kicking her to the curb. I came back to get some clarity, some more advice and a swift kick in the butt to not let the weakness take over. This time it's different. She really showed how much she does not care.


----------



## russell28

So we've been down this path with this guy.. I see where this is going, nowhere fast.

Here's what to do SF Fan.. 

If she calls you a tattle tale.. you have two options:

1. Say "I know you are, but what am I?"

2. Say "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"

If she continues to berate you, put your hands over your ears and hum very loudly. You can also make a pouty face, that works wonders on cheating spouses.


You get the idea, let her act like the five year old.. you act like the man.


----------



## alte Dame

Tattle tale, SF?

You know that this isn't grade school and she isn't the mean girl on the playground who gets people to shut up by battering them with confusing, awful, embarrassing attacks.

If anyone called me that when I was dealing with an important situation, I would laugh out loud. How childish.

If she tries to disarm you with garbage like that, you man up, laugh at it, and go about doing what you have to do to defend your honor and your kids. If I can man up, you can, that's for sure.


----------



## warlock07

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Look at his last thread:
> 
> In a hard place in my marriage
> 
> All the advice being given now, he was given the last time. He was advised to do the 180, which he said he did. He obviously stopped it if he has to do it now. He was advised to investigate. He was advised to tell her to quit her job with the OM. She had an affair 4 years ago, and when he brings it up, she gets defensive and storms out of the house. In spite of all that, she goes ahead and has another affair, and is now pretending to be remorseful. She knew she messed up, yeah right.
> 
> Then SF-FAN gets defensive about some of the advice here and then disappears.
> 
> This one is a serial cheater, an experienced one at that. She knows exactly how to play him. Will he move on? We will see, but it looks doubtful.


She is not even pretending


----------



## SF-FAN

alte Dame said:


> Tattle tale, SF?
> 
> You know that this isn't grade school and she isn't the mean girl on the playground who gets people to shut up by battering them with confusing, awful, embarrassing attacks.
> 
> If anyone called me that when I was dealing with an important situation, I would laugh out loud. How childish.
> 
> If she tries to disarm you with garbage like that, you man up, laugh at it, and go about doing what you have to do to defend your honor and your kids. *If I can man up, you can, that's for sure*.


That's definitely a weakness I've had as you see in my previous post. No matter how hard, this time I can't just let it go. I have hard proof which is what I was looking for in my last post. No excuses this time. She is a POS, the OM is a POS. They deserve nothing but ridicule.


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> Why do I want to do that with someone that did that to me and our kids?


That's the question I struggled with and eventually learned I didn't. Yes it hurts like hell, and yes, losing your family as you know it is painful and difficult.

But can you live with no trust? Cause it's gone - forever. So is the respect. She has none for you. Do you want to spend your life with someone who has no respect for you? For your children? Can you live with checking up on her for the rest of your life? 

I couldn't, and I'm not. I'm sorry she did this to you and your kids.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> "Alienation of Affection is a tort violation and not recognized within the state of CA. Also, unless the company has a written policy against this type of fraternization (which you can guess most restaurants won't), the company is not liable for the A. Even if they do have a policy, you would have to prove that they used company resources and time to "afford" affair, which could be hard to prove. You would also have to prove the company had knowledge of the A and let it continue and therefor show they were responsible."
> 
> You are right on all of these legal points. I live in CA myself.
> 
> However, I have both experienced and seen that the vast majority of businesses WILL react to the threat of such actions or even bad publicity (posts on sights like Angie's List, etc) if you are persistent, loud, and determined.
> 
> They realize it can be a black eye for them if they are publicly known to condone immoral behavior from their employees.
> 
> But they have to be convinced the downside to blowing you off is worse than the disruption to their workforce of holding both these POS's accountable.
> 
> Few companies/owners want such a negative label being publicly attached to them, so if you are loud and determined, they are likely to do something to placate you and end the disruption.


:iagree:
Like the saying...
You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.
In the long run it won't be worth it for them.
They may win but at what cost?


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> How does anyone function feeling like this? I am existing but I don't feel like I am living.


You've suffered a trauma and you are in shock. You're in for a roller coaster ride my friend, no getting around it. Lean *heavily* on friends, family and us. Get some sleeping pills, cause you won't sleep otherwise. It will ease up, but in time.

Look out for yourself and your kids first and foremost. *Not* her. She can kiss your ass. Be strong amigo.


----------



## Healer

Lovemytruck said:


> I remember your anguish.
> 
> Isn't it time to change your game? I would be done with her, and move on.
> 
> Marriage is difficult, at times, but it is not supposed to be an emotional hell.
> 
> Listen to what you are saying. I would end the pain and chalk it up to experience. Marriage should be a solid commitment to benefit both spouses. Your description of what you currently have falls short of this.
> 
> Good luck. Hope to hear better news in the future!


Agreed in full, and hi Truck!


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> I don't know if she is still seeing him, I don't know what she truly wants, I really don't know anything except for that fact that I am hurting more than I've ever hurt before and it's hard to not want to talk to her and make things better.


This is now about what *you* want, not her. Remember that please. You are in control. But really, really think about who she is. She was with him last night, you know it. You deserve better, and you know that, too.


----------



## russell28

Healer said:


> That's the question I struggled with and eventually learned I didn't. Yes it hurts like hell, and yes, losing your family as you know it is painful and difficult.
> 
> But can you live with no trust? Cause it's gone - forever. So is the respect. She has none for you. Do you want to spend your life with someone who has no respect for you? For your children? Can you live with checking up on her for the rest of your life?
> 
> I couldn't, and I'm not. I'm sorry she did this to you and your kids.


Not to derail the thread, but the issue I struggled with, about trust, is that I'm pretty sure I'm ruined either way.. I won't be able to trust anyone again, so that wasn't a factor in my decision to R. The respect thing, I think they regain respect quickly in some cases, and in some, not so much... This is one of those not so much cases. Things like changing locks, packing bags, time away.. talk of divorce and nothing else, has an impact. I acted quickly thanks to the advice I got here, and things quickly went from blame shifting and gas lighting to an R that's working, and her being so aware of my every need and catering to me in a way that I forgot was possible. I put D on the table, and said the only way to R is to stop the bull... period, if this guy can't do that, he'll either end up in false R, or just a straight out cuckold...


----------



## SF-FAN

Healer said:


> This is now about what *you* want, not her. Remember that please. You are in control. But really, really think about who she is. She was with him last night, you know it. You deserve better, and you know that, too.


Whether she was with him or not last night, I can give a sh*t, the damage is done. It's like stepping on a vase that's already broken. I know I'm in control and she is trying to take it back or flip it on me. She can kiss my arse.


----------



## mahike

trying to function at work right now is not really practical. Go to your boss and at least take the next few days off and hang with the kids.

That being said you need to take action and expose her to your family and hers. Does the POS have a wife or GF? expose to them as well, You do not have to decide today if you are going to R or D but file for divorce and have her served right away.

Take a deep breath and then find an IC for yourself and then make an apt to see your DR and get everything checked out.

Sorry you are here


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> Whether she was with him or not last night, I can give a sh*t, the damage is done. It's like stepping on a vase that's already broken. I know I'm in control and she is trying to take it back or flip it on me. She can kiss my arse.


Okay put the anger into action find out where he lives.
Go cold not yelling toward stbxw only business.
Try to get her to go to mediation tell her that way she will have more$$ if she doesn't well GAME ON.


----------



## SF-FAN

mahike said:


> trying to function at work right now is not really practical. Go to your boss and at least take the next few days off and hang with the kids.
> 
> That being said you need to take action and expose her to your family and hers. Does the POS have a wife or GF? expose to them as well, You do not have to decide today if you are going to R or D but file for divorce and have her served right away.
> 
> Take a deep breath and then find an IC for yourself and then make an apt to see your DR and get everything checked out.
> 
> Sorry you are here


Unfortunately I don't think time off is an option. My boss will understand and likely be sympathetic but I am the only employee and we're busy.

I plan on exposing but I'm at work and can't be making a bunch of phone calls or sending a bunch of personal emails.

Supposedly the POSOM is not married, however, I don't know.


----------



## ThePheonix

SF-FAN said:


> That's definitely a weakness I've had as you see in my previous post. No matter how hard, this time I can't just let it go. I have hard proof which is what I was looking for in my last post. No excuses this time. She is a POS, the OM is a POS. They deserve nothing but ridicule.


You know SF if you accepted and nursed your strengths as you do your weaknesses you'd be a hell of a lot better off. Quit babying yourself Dawg, get yourself straight and stop worrying about whether she's gonna be happy or better off without you. 

GEICO - Sarge - YouTube


----------



## adriana

SF-FAN said:


> Whether she was with him or not last night, I can give a sh*t, the damage is done. It's like stepping on a vase that's already broken. I know I'm in control and she is trying to take it back or flip it on me. She can kiss my arse.


SF-FAN, are you ready to file for a divorce? Because, unless you actually have her served with divorce papers, all this talk is nothing more but yet another form of childish theatricks on your part.


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> What I want to know is why does the cheater ultimately get what she wants and the loyal spouse is usually left hurting. What I mean is that I'm sure she feels that if our marriage doesn't work, she can just continue the relationship with the OM and now it will be in the open so no love lost for her.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am left feeling alone without anyone. Is that the way it works?


Wrong thought process. This is a weak stance, and part of your problem. Right now it seems that she has her cake and is eating it too - because she is. Your only recourse is to take the cake away - and that means divorcing her.

My stbxw had her cake and was eating it too. She came back to me and we attempted reconciliation. I then realized I didn't want her anymore, and I left. I turned the tables. Now she's left alone and miserable. And that makes me feel better.

You can't force her to love and respect you, you can't force her to dump her posom - the only thing you CAN do is divorce her disgusting ass, cut her from your life and live a better life for yourself. Chances are she'll be left alone and miserable eventually. She's a ****ty person, and karma is a *****.

You'll be fine, but don't look at it as "I'm the victim and she is winning". Bull****! She's a loser and a lowlife. You are not. Don't forget that.


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> How do you get passed the mind movies and knowing someone else touched your wife how only you are supposed to touch her?


You divorce her and stop giving a ****.


----------



## Healer

Squeakr said:


> This is how we want to view them, but it is also counter productive to raising children with them, as we are the role models for our children and we don't want to damage them anymore than they already are.


Theoretically, maybe. But just because you have children with someone, it doesn't change the fact that they are who they are. My ex is a cheating, skank-ass, no class wh*re. It's a fact. DO I tell my kids that? Of course not. Doesn't make it any less true.


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> Plus the boss/owner is just as big of a douche as the OM. His wife is an attorney so it wouldn't cost him anything and he'd probably try to cover the whole thing up.


I wouldn't waste my time with either of them. I texted the posom when I first found out and told him he was scum, and later to stay away from my wife, even though I had left her at that point (because he is scum and if he's in her life, he's in my kid's lives). Other than that - who cares? Let them have each other so they can rot together.

Let her go. Let her know you are done with her and you don't want her anymore, and that you don't care enough about her to go after the posom. Wipe her from your shoe and BEGIN YOUR NEW LIFE. It's hard, it's scary, it's stressful. But you will be OK - you will be better than OK - you will be happier in the long run. Trust me.


----------



## SF-FAN

Healer said:


> I wouldn't waste my time with either of them. I texted the posom when I first found out and told him he was scum, and later to stay away from my wife, even though I had left her at that point (because he is scum and if he's in her life, he's in my kid's lives). Other than that - who cares? Let them have each other so they can rot together.
> 
> Let her go. Let her know you are done with her and you don't want her anymore, and that you don't care enough about her to go after the posom. Wipe her from your shoe and BEGIN YOUR NEW LIFE. It's hard, it's scary, it's stressful. But you will be OK - you will be better than OK - you will be happier in the long run. Trust me.


Yeah like I said I texted the POSOM and told him he and my WW were both POS for doing what they did. I also told him my 3 kids thank him for causing the fights that their affair no doubt caused due to her defensive mentality. Of course the coward didn't respond. He doesn't deserve my time.


----------



## Chris989

SF-FAN said:


> Yeah like I said I texted the POSOM and told him he and my WW were both POS for doing what they did. I also told him my 3 kids thank him for causing the fights that their affair no doubt caused due to her defensive mentality. Of course the coward didn't respond. He doesn't deserve my time.


He doesn't deserve your _time_, but he does deserve your _attention_.


----------



## Graywolf2

SF-FAN said:


> I will likely not get full custody especially since only 1 of the 3 is biologically mine. I admit I have been weak in the past and still feel weak due to pain but her going to a hotel for the weekend in which she missed our kids baseball games.


I’m not trying to be cruel, but let me get this straight. 

You forgave her for an affair four years ago. She works part time and you pay most of the bills for her and her two kids from a previous relationship. You were taking care of all three kids while she was in the hotel with the OM. Is this correct?

With a deal like that, why would she ever stop?


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> Yeah like I said I texted the POSOM and told him he and my WW were both POS for doing what they did. I also told him my 3 kids thank him for causing the fights that their affair no doubt caused due to her defensive mentality. Of course the coward didn't respond. He doesn't deserve my time.


Yeah I thanked the posom for ruining my kid's lives too. He's so dumb the sarcasm was lost on him.


----------



## Graywolf2

SF-FAN said:


> What made it hard and still makes it a little hard is the fact that the kids don't like being alone with her. I will likely not get full custody especially since only 1 of the 3 is biologically mine. I admit I have been weak in the past and still feel weak due to pain but her going to a hotel for the weekend in which she missed our kids baseball games.


She doesn’t sound like much of a mother. 

Instead of saying how you will fight for custody of the kids like she expects you to do, I would bluff and say I only wanted weekends with just my one kid. I bet that would shake her up. 

She takes your goodness for granted.


----------



## SF-FAN

Graywolf2 said:


> I’m not trying to be cruel, but let me get this straight.
> 
> You forgave her for an affair four years ago. She works part time and you pay most of the bills for her and her two kids from a previous relationship. You were taking care of all three kids while she was in the hotel with the OM. Is this correct?
> 
> With a deal like that, why would she ever stop?


Yeah, I'm the stupid, loyal, caring husband and father. Guilty as charged.


----------



## SF-FAN

Graywolf2 said:


> She doesn’t sound like much of a mother.
> 
> Instead of saying how you will fight for custody of the kids like she expects you to do, I would bluff and say I only wanted weekends with just my one kid. I bet that would shake her up.
> 
> She takes your goodness for granted.


Well she cried and said the kids were her life, boo hoo. I told her really? Were you thinking of them when you were in the hotel room getting f*cked? Oh she didn't like that.

She is putting on a front and would probably like I keep the kids more often so she can continue her dirty behavior.


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> Well she cried and said the kids were her life, boo hoo. I told her really? Were you thinking of them when you were in the hotel room getting f*cked? Oh she didn't like that.
> 
> She is putting on a front and would probably like I keep the kids more often so she can continue her dirty behavior.


Time to change that and stop being the beta provider.


----------



## Clay2013

SF-FAN said:


> Yeah, I'm the stupid, loyal, caring husband and father. Guilty as charged.


Don't think for a moment you are alone in thinking that way. I sure did. I stayed with my xW and she cheated on me over and over. I told myself I could help her. All the stuff these people are telling you is true. My xW was a pro at making me feel guilty for wanting to end our marriage while we had children. She would never do it again. 

You need to stop talking to her. If only for the kids and financial things then fine but other wise I would treat her like I would someone I was paying for service from. She is no longer your wife. She is a stranger. 

Start taking care of you. Don't put this off another minute. Focus on your kids. Spend more time with them. They will help you get through this in ways no one else can. I spoiled mine and they loved it. 

I am really sorry you are going through this but you are the only one who can stop her from hurting you. 

Clay


----------



## SF-FAN

Clay2013 said:


> Don't think for a moment you are alone in thinking that way. I sure did. I stayed with my xW and she cheated on me over and over. I told myself I could help her. All the stuff these people are telling you is true. My xW was a pro at making me feel guilty for wanting to end our marriage while we had children. She would never do it again.
> 
> You need to stop talking to her. If only for the kids and financial things then fine but other wise I would treat her like I would someone I was paying for service from. She is no longer your wife. She is a stranger.
> 
> Start taking care of you. Don't put this off another minute. Focus on your kids. Spend more time with them. They will help you get through this in ways no one else can. I spoiled mine and they loved it.
> 
> I am really sorry you are going through this but you are the only one who can stop her from hurting you.
> 
> Clay


I plan to. Not going to lie, it's hard. She somewhat prepped me for it by being cold these past few months but it's still very hard. I am going to be the strongest I can be and basically ignore her/do the 180. Not going to lie, I felt like calling/texting her to let everything out but glad I came on her. I am focusing on the anger I feel for what she did. It was despicable though she knows it, she still feels she is a good mom?


----------



## vellocet

SF-FAN said:


> Well she cried and said the kids were her life, boo hoo. I told her really? Were you thinking of them when you were in the hotel room getting f*cked? Oh she didn't like that.



Too f'in bad if she didn't like that. I constantly amazes me that these so-called great parents would do something so dangerous to their kids' well being. Utterly amazing.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Yeah, I'm the stupid, loyal, caring husband and father. Guilty as charged.


Quit wallowing, get up, dust yourself off and get back on the horse. 

If the horse throws you again, catch it and get back up on it. 

Pretty soon you will get tired of falling off and getting bruised up and you'll learn how to stay on better. 

You're going to get through this. Make your stand, don't back down, do the 180 and push through.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Quit wallowing, get up, dust yourself off and get back on the horse.
> 
> If the horse throws you again, catch it and get back up on it.
> 
> Pretty soon you will get tired of falling off and getting bruised up and you'll learn how to stay on better.
> 
> You're going to get through this. Make your stand, don't back down, do the 180 and push through.


Not wallowing, I was being sarcastic. Yes I am doing the 180.


----------



## Hope1964

The whole reason you feel guilty about what you're doing is that you are a decent human being. The whole reason this is so bewildering is because you had never conceived of it before, again because you are a decent human being. Decent human beings care about their kids and their spouses. They do NOT do what your wife did.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Not wallowing, I was being sarcastic. Yes I am doing the 180.


Well you sound like you're wallowing. 

Every time you talk about yourself it's in a negative light...

You're a good, hard working guy and a loving father, who loved his wife and didn't deserve any of this. So knock it off with the self effacing b.s.


----------



## bandit.45

Hope1964 said:


> The whole reason you feel guilty about what you're doing is that you are a decent human being. The whole reason this is so bewildering is because you had never conceived of it before, again because you are a decent human being. Decent human beings care about their kids and their spouses. They do NOT do what your wife did.


:iagree:


----------



## Hope1964

bandit.45 said:


> So knock it off with the self effacing b.s.


I agree.

So what have you done today, SF Fan? And you never answered me when I said we need clarification about what the SF stands for


----------



## SF-FAN

As far as living situation, we rent my parent's house and I'm not particularly fond of it nor its location. It is cheap rent, however, I am not staying. I need to start somewhere new. I am 35 and don't want to move back with my parents, though they have a huge house, but for financial and emotional reasons, would it be good to live with someone or live alone? I will have my kids some of the time but not all.


----------



## SF-FAN

Chris989 said:


> It looks like _she_ is ignoring _you_ at the moment, so what, exactly, is your 180 achieving?


I haven't seen her since yesterday so the only thing I can do as far as the 180 is not call or text which I haven't. The fact she isn't texting me probably means she doesn't give a sh*t that the marriage is finally over and is now glad she will be able to be with the POSOM in the open even though she will be seen as a 2 timing POS herself.

I did contact an attorney and am meeting with them tomorrow. I am at work until later today so there's not much more I can do as far as the 180 goes. I am hurt and am venting on here and getting some great advice.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> As far as living situation, we rent my parent's house and I'm not particularly fond of it nor its location. It is cheap rent, however, I am not staying. I need to start somewhere new. I am 35 and don't want to move back with my parents, though they have a huge house, but for financial and emotional reasons, would it be good to live with someone or live alone? I will have my kids some of the time but not all.


If you live near a university, go online and see if they have a student bulletin board where students can leave notices or messages. 

Look for a graduate student... some poor starving student who is actually studying and not partying... and see if there are any who need help with rent on a two-bed apartment or a house.


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> I haven't seen her since yesterday so the only thing I can do as far as the 180 is not call or text which I haven't. The fact she isn't texting me probably means she doesn't give a sh*t that the marriage is finally over and is now glad she will be able to be with the POSOM in the open even though she will be seen as a 2 timing POS herself.
> 
> I did contact an attorney and am meeting with them tomorrow. I am at work until later today so there's not much more I can do as far as the 180 goes. I am hurt and am venting on here and getting some great advice.


:banghead: :banghead:


----------



## Healer

After a while, you'll begin to take pleasure in ignoring her. My stbxww still texts me like mad, every goddamned day. I only answer when it's imperative (about the kids). I'll get 6 or 7 texts from her, and I'll reply, once, with "Sure". Drives her nuts. It's really liberating.

You have to show her you're fine with your marriage ending - that you're cool with her not being in your life any more. Even if she doesn't care (she will eventually - believe me), you need to do it for you. Shine her on.


----------



## brokeneric

Forget her, think about yourself now. She did what she wanted. Its not your responsibility to mop up when she spilled your marriage on the ground. Walk away.

1)180
2)Expose
3)D or R whichever suits your taste.


----------



## Chris989

bandit.45 said:


> Its not supposed to achieve anything, other than helping him detach emotionally. Fvck what it may or may not do to her.
> 
> After all this time on this forum, I can't believe you still don't understand what the 180 is for...


After all this time on the forum, I can't believe you could think I don't know what the 180 is for.

I do, although I deleted my post as it was trying to suggest that he is doing nothing else. SF is saying he is "doing the 180" to make it look like he is taking action when he is, in fact, doing nothing. I think I bowed out of his thread last time as seeing somebody being so passive is incredibly frustrating.


----------



## 3putt

Hope1964 said:


> The whole reason you feel guilty about what you're doing is that you are a decent human being. The whole reason this is so bewildering is because you had never conceived of it before, again because you are a decent human being. Decent human beings care about their kids and their spouses. They do NOT do what your wife did.


Ditto!


----------



## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> I agree.
> 
> So what have you done today, SF Fan? And you never answered me when I said we need clarification about what the SF stands for


I took my kids to school, came to work, picked them up from school and took them to the sitter. Am still at work. I haven't talked to her but did schedule a meeting with an attorney. I will pick up my kids later and then go home.

SF stands for San Francisco.


----------



## bandit.45

Chris989 said:


> After all this time on the forum, I can't believe you could think I don't know what the 180 is for.
> 
> I do, although I deleted my post as it was trying to suggest that he is doing nothing else. SF is saying he is "doing the 180" to make it look like he is taking action when he is, in fact, doing nothing. I think I bowed out of his thread last time as seeing somebody being so passive is incredibly frustrating.


Understood...

I didn't understand your statement. I'll go back and delete mine. 

Peace.


----------



## SF-FAN

Chris989 said:


> After all this time on the forum, I can't believe you could think I don't know what the 180 is for.
> 
> I do, although I deleted my post as it was trying to suggest that he is doing nothing else. SF is saying he is "doing the 180" to make it look like he is taking action when he is, in fact, doing nothing. I think I bowed out of his thread last time as seeing somebody being so passive is incredibly frustrating.


What exactly would you like me to do at the moment. I am at work! I cannot afford to be making calls to everyone to expose and/or send emails from here. I scheduled a meeting with an attorney for tomorrow. I will be able to do what I need to do tonight.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> What exactly would you like me to do at the moment. I am at work! I cannot afford to be making calls to everyone to expose and/or send emails from here. I scheduled a meeting with an attorney for tomorrow. I will be able to do what I need to do tonight.


One thing at a time. Go at your own pace. The 180 is a state of mind, not an exercise.


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> I took my kids to school, came to work, picked them up from school and took them to the sitter. Am still at work. I haven't talked to her but did schedule a meeting with an attorney. I will pick up my kids later and then go home.
> 
> SF stands for San Francisco.


Damn, I thought sci fi.  And my condolences about your teams loss a week and a half ago. Although I'm a Green Bay fan first, Denver second, so my condolences are fleeting. 

The meeting with the lawyer looks like the only thing you've done for you today. What have you done for YOU? Are you SURE you know what the 180 is for exactly?

ETA I see you're getting frustrated. Just BREATHE. Take a walk, Eat something you love. The little stuff. Start there.


----------



## alte Dame

SF-FAN said:


> I took my kids to school, came to work, picked them up from school and took them to the sitter. Am still at work. I haven't talked to her but did schedule a meeting with an attorney. I will pick up my kids later and then go home.
> 
> SF stands for San Francisco.


You just confirmed that your WW is having an affair. It sounds to me like it's been going on for a while, given her cold demeanor. That being said, the confirmation is a shock, so you will need some time to regroup. I think we get that.

Stay on here, though. You seem to need the battering to help you do what you have to do. Don't cave and disappear from the thread. (From what you've written, I'm old enough to be your mother, so this is a righteous scold.)

Keep reading the 180 list to help you move toward detachment. The appointment with the lawyer is good. Make sure your finances are secure & don't let her make you feel guilty about her 'upkeep.' Keep yourself angry now in order to propel you to a more reasonable future for yourself.

(I am also an SF fan.)


----------



## Hope1964

alte Dame said:


> (I am also an SF fan.)


(except for this)


----------



## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> Damn, I thought sci fi.  And my condolences about your teams loss a week and a half ago. Although I'm a Green Bay fan first, Denver second, so my condolences are fleeting.
> 
> The meeting with the lawyer looks like the only thing you've done for you today. What have you done for YOU? Are you SURE you know what the 180 is for exactly?
> 
> ETA I see you're getting frustrated. Just BREATHE. Take a walk, Eat something you love. The little stuff. Start there.


I'm so deep into being co-dependent, I am truly in for some hard work as far as looking out for me and doing what I want. That's my fault and I know that but I am going to do it. I have to. It's my life and only I can make myself happy (besides my kids).


----------



## bandit.45

Gotta grow up and stand on your own. The 180 is good at breaking codependency.


----------



## Healer

It really, really bothered my WW to see that I was doing well without her - that I look good, was dating, the house looks good, I cook for my kids...she was really hoping I would crash and burn - that I couldn't make it without her.

Guess what - I can and I am. You can too. You do not need her. You're a grown man, capable of taking care of yourself and your kids. Show her that, and more importantly, show _yourself_ that.


----------



## alte Dame

Hope1964 said:


> (except for this)


(I'm an outlander here, Hope, but you have to root for the local team, right? It's only polite.  )


----------



## Racer

I’m always an optimist. Something I found out whenever I eventually got the confession... “I am not crazy!” That’s what was killing me in the year prior; Thinking she was, but being unable to find anything concrete and still having her denials. Stupid little voice in my head telling me maybe I’m wrong, maybe I’m just paranoid, maybe, maybe, maybe... When I did, and got that confession, it was a relief. I could trust my gut again.

The pain passed quickly. Then there was the rage.... 

Glad you finally know for sure SF..


----------



## Will_Kane

Her silence is deafening.


----------



## WayUpNorth

Dyokemm said:


> They're co-workers?
> 
> Expose them at work and tell them you are looking into an alienation of affection lawsuit if the company does nothing to address this POS destroying your M.
> 
> Get them both fired and rain as much h**l down on their lives as possible.


I mentioned to my SO that I considered threatening the company my X and her boss/buck fuddy worked for with a lawsuit. SO reamed me about that idea. Still think I should have at least threatened the lawsuit.


----------



## 2asdf2

SF-FAN said:


> Unfortunately I don't think time off is an option. My boss will understand and likely be sympathetic but I am the only employee and we're busy.
> 
> I plan on exposing but *I'm at work and can't be making a bunch of phone calls or sending a bunch of personal emails.*
> 
> Supposedly the POSOM is not married, however, I don't know.





SF-FAN said:


> What exactly would you like me to do at the moment. I am at work! *I cannot afford to be making calls to everyone to expose and/or send emails from here.* I scheduled a meeting with an attorney for tomorrow. I will be able to do what I need to do tonight.





SF-FAN said:


> I'm so deep into being co-dependent, I am truly in for some hard work as far as looking out for me and doing what I want. That's my fault and I know that but I am going to do it. I have to. *It's my life* and only I can make myself happy (besides my kids).


You are kidding yourself.

You are not too busy to post four times in someone else's thread.

Don't make excuses for yourself.

Get busy.

Get real! This is your marriage.


----------



## ThePheonix

SF-FAN said:


> That's my fault and I know that but I am going to do it. I have to. It's my life and only I can make myself happy (besides my kids).


If it were me, her and her two kids would be history but I don't think you have much of a decision to make. This gal has been telling you, both verbally and via body language to get lost for a while. Of course if she runs out of money before she runs out of fun, she may come looking for you, or some other stooge, to pick up her tab.


----------



## happyman64

SF-FAN said:


> This only happened last night (that I found out) and I do plan on exposing but how do I respond to the comment I know she will make that I am a "tattle tail" and have to run to everyone and let them know our business?
> 
> It's stupid, I know but I want to make her feel stupid when she tells me this because I know she will.


You want to make her feel stupid?

How about letting her know you are smarter, loyal, loving and a great catch.....

When she says "our" you say no, it is "your" business.

The only thing "ours" anymore are our kids......


----------



## happyman64

SF

Do you have legal custody of her kids?

Did you adopt them?

Have you heard from her yet?


----------



## sammy3

SF-FAN said:


> I have to look the 180 up again, it's been a while since I've been on here. How does anyone function feeling like this? I am existing but I don't feel like I am living.



SF- Oh without sounding heartless. We all understand only all to well what you are going thorough, and more importantly so sorry you are here with us. 

Dont let depression get the best of you, as it can take on a life of it's own, as I know, as I sounded, and ask questions of these as you are asking. I swank really low, seriously scared myself & others, with real worries for my safety. 

Reach out for people who care for you, don't isolate yourself too much as the pain and hurt will compound and those very scary thoughts can start to sound better than the pain we're in. 

Hang in there. Stay on this site. These really good people will help you through... 

~sammy


----------



## jnj express

Hey SF---forget the 180---at this point go completely DARK on her

She has known all along you are weak, and she knows exactly how to manipulate you---and you better believe, when she starts to get hungry due to running out of money---she will try to manipulate you---she is not pretty---remember beauty is only skin deep-----she is one ugly/evil/nasty woman, who could give a sh*t about you or the kids

At this point if you can handle it---get out of your apt., and move back in with your parents---they will help you with the kids, and give you some support----

Any contact with your cheating wife, should be only about the following---dealing with the kids, and that she is now to pay half of each and every bill you get in re: living expenses/car payments/insurances/rent/and anything else that pertains to the kids----also take whatever marital funds there are, and put all but $5 in an acct. with your name ONLY on it-----to close an acct, you might need her signature, just leave the acct. open with the $5 in it----if there are direct deposits made to that acct., switch them over

As to lawsuits----calif as all states, allow, the civil action for INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS---the key element being outrageous conduct---I would think 2 major A's in 4 yrs, would qualify as outrageous conduct

File the suit agst your wife and her lover---also from this point on---LEAVE HER LOVER ALONE---he is meaningless---your beef is with one person and one person ONLY---the woman who took SACRED VOWS WITH YOU.


----------



## jack.c

Finaly a bs who is sticking up for himself! I sure missed this type of person latelty!!

Go sf, gooo!!


----------



## Foghorn

SF-FAN said:


> This only happened last night (that I found out) and I do plan on exposing but how do I respond to the comment I know she will make that I am a "tattle tail" and have to run to everyone and let them know our business?
> 
> It's stupid, I know but I want to make her feel stupid when she tells me this because I know she will.


The “tattle-tale” thing really slays me. Seriously, think about this from another perspective.

“My husband told my Mom, Dad and everyone that I…”

“…. Donated a bunch of stuff to Koats for Kids.”:smthumbup:

“….volunteered for the kids’ Girl Scout fundraiser.”:smthumbup:

“….spent 8 hours pulling weeds in the garden.”:smthumbup:

“….worked a full time job so we could all have health insurance.”:smthumbup:

“…. met a strange man and had an affair to gratify her ego.” 



If she’s ashamed to OWN it, she shouldn’t have DONE it. There were other choices and she made _a really bad one_. She does not respect you, in fact, she feels contempt for you. She is not a good mother because a good mother sets a good example by her actions, behaviors and choices. Now she wants to conceal her dirty secret.

_ Blow it up_. You are not tattling, you are telling the truth. Even my 2nd grader knows the difference between telling and tattling. Telling means that someone did something wrong, and the authorities need to know.

I am hoping you realize that you are in the right. You have every right to tell it all, and if people don’t support you, well that’s when you find out who your real friends are.

Make sure you’re eating and sleeping. Hug the kids a lot. Don’t leave this forum, we will be here.


----------



## SF-FAN

She came home last night and I kept with the 180; didn't even acknowledge she had gotten home. I basically stayed on opposite sides of the house. She did finally come in to the bedroom and said "well are you going to talk to me?" I reiterated how low she was for doing what she did and of course she tried to flip it on me saying our marriage had been rocky for a while, blah blah. I said that she not only cheated on me but the kids as well. Funny thing, when I mention the kids, she goes off the deep end and gets defensive insisting that her affair does not define her as a mother and that she is there for her kids.

Long story short, she does not show remorse, she is condescending about R and being transparent therefore I told her I was done. I am filing for D as soon as my attorney can and I am done playing her stupid conversation games.

I get the impression, she doesn't really think what she did was all that bad because our marriage has been cold for a while and so now she wants to get out of this with as little damage to her reputation as possible. She is a POS and though I don't regret the kids, I wish they had a different mother.


----------



## SF-FAN

Though I am staying strong, I am in pain, serious pain and I find that what kills me the most are the mind movies. Any advice to keep those out of my head?


----------



## jack.c

SF-FAN said:


> Though I am staying strong, I am in pain, serious pain and I find that what kills me the most are the mind movies. Any advice to keep those out of my head?



it's like for for a smoker who quits! Everytime you get the willing to grab a cigarette, think and remember it will kill you.... little by little you will stronger and stronger, but you need to be seriusly wanting to do it


----------



## Hope1964

My advice about the mind movies is to let them play, and allow the pain to be felt. The trick is to come up with a way to lessen the pain. What worked for me was to imagine my pain as bubbles. As I would feel it, I would close my eyes and imagine the bubbles floating out from me, and as they did they would pop. Each time one popped, a little bit more of the pain was gone. I also had to deal with anger as a result of the pain - anger at him for what he did. Since we're in R I couldn't just take it out on him - that doesn't really work anyway - so I would write things down. Just write. Sometimes sentences, sometimes just words. Sometimes I would keep the writings for a couple of days and reread them. But I always burned them. Burning those words burnt the anger away.

And it may sound cliche, but breathing exercises really help. Breathe in deeply through the nose - as deep as you can - with your eyes closed. Hold it a second or two, then breathe out through the mouth. As you breathe out, imagine the anger and/or pain coming out with your breath. If I repeat this five times, my anger/pain is gone. It's really quite remarkable how this works so well.


----------



## Clay2013

Focus on you and the kids. Go do things with them. Plan trips with them. I spoiled mine rotten. They loved it and there happiness made me feel good. Go work out. Nothing builds self confidence like staying healthy. You look good and you feel good. Start spending money on you. Nothing wrong with dressing nice. 

Nothing says good bye to a cheater like you moving on with your life like they almost never existed. My xW wrote me letters for six months after she moved in with the other guy. She said I was the worst man in the world. Every time I responded could you please just talk about the kids. The last time she wrote me I agreed that I was the most horrible person in the world and it was all my fault and then told her to shut up and move on with her life. It was the last letter I received from her. 

There are plenty of good women out there you just have to do the work on you first to get yourself ready to make that next step. 

I am really sorry you are going through this. 

Clay


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> She came home last night and I kept with the 180; didn't even acknowledge she had gotten home. I basically stayed on opposite sides of the house. She did finally come in to the bedroom and said "well are you going to talk to me?" I reiterated how low she was for doing what she did and of course she tried to flip it on me saying our marriage had been rocky for a while, blah blah. I said that she not only cheated on me but the kids as well. Funny thing, when I mention the kids, she goes off the deep end and gets defensive insisting that her affair does not define her as a mother and that she is there for her kids.
> 
> Long story short, she does not show remorse, she is condescending about R and being transparent therefore I told her I was done. I am filing for D as soon as my attorney can and I am done playing her stupid conversation games.
> 
> I get the impression, she doesn't really think what she did was all that bad because our marriage has been cold for a while and so now she wants to get out of this with as little damage to her reputation as possible. She is a POS and though I don't regret the kids, I wish they had a different mother.


This is part of the script. My stbxw said exactly the same thing "our marriage had been dead for a while" and "we lost each other long before I had the affair" AND "I am a great mother, this doesn't define me as a mother blah blah blah". Here's the rub - the BS isn't aware that things are as bad as the WS makes them out to be - we don't see it that way. I knew things weren't great, but I had no clue they were as bad as they were. That's why it's such a shock, such a kick in the face when we find out they've been screwing someone else. It's gaslighting at its finest. It's just more lies.

And guess what? Being a cheating wh*re most certainly does define her as a mother. Being a cheating scumbag makes you a *terrible* parent! Just ask children who come from homes plagued by infidelity. How many stories have we read on here about kids who shun or hate their cheating parent? Again, more lies and bullsh*t from cheating spouses.

I'm really, really glad to hear you've seemingly turned the right corner. Keep on it! This is your game now.


----------



## SF-FAN

Clay2013 said:


> Focus on you and the kids. Go do things with them. Plan trips with them. I spoiled mine rotten. They loved it and there happiness made me feel good. Go work out. Nothing builds self confidence like staying healthy. You look good and you feel good. Start spending money on you. Nothing wrong with dressing nice.
> 
> Nothing says good bye to a cheater like you moving on with your life like they almost never existed. My xW wrote me letters for six months after she moved in with the other guy. She said I was the worst man in the world. Every time I responded could you please just talk about the kids. The last time she wrote me I agreed that I was the most horrible person in the world and it was all my fault and then told her to shut up and move on with her life. It was the last letter I received from her.
> 
> There are plenty of good women out there you just have to do the work on you first to get yourself ready to make that next step.
> 
> I am really sorry you are going through this.
> 
> Clay


When I have the kids (which is most of the time because of her school schedule) it's fine. The pain is still there but I don't feel alone. I'm not as cheerful as I may otherwise be but I'm o.k. What I'm worried about is the time alone which hasn't happened yet. I do have friends, however, they all have jobs, families, kids, etc. so I don't have a person I can just hang with anytime. That is what I am dreading.


----------



## Hope1964

I highly recommend IC for you right now too.


----------



## SF-FAN

Healer said:


> This is part of the script. My stbxw said exactly the same thing "our marriage had been dead for a while" and "we lost each other long before I had the affair" AND "I am a great mother, this doesn't define me as a mother blah blah blah". Here's the rub - the BS isn't aware that things are as bad as the WS makes them out to be - we don't see it that way. I knew things weren't great, but I had no clue they were as bad as they were. That's why it's such a shock, such a kick in the face when we find out they've been screwing someone else. It's gaslighting at its finest. It's just more lies.
> 
> And guess what? Being a cheating wh*re most certainly does define her as a mother. Being a cheating scumbag makes you a *terrible* parent! Just ask children who come from homes plagued by infidelity. How many stories have we read on here about kids who shun or hate their cheating parent? Again, more lies and bullsh*t from cheating spouses.
> 
> I'm really, really glad to hear you've seemingly turned the right corner. Keep on it! This is your game now.


It's a day to day thing. I am still hurt and the mindmovies are there but it angers me to no-end how 1) she did this; and 2) how she doesn't see the severity of it.

These were her words last night "yes I have to face the music and yes people will know what I did but no one is going to bring me down or make me crumble. If they ask what happened, I will just tell them it is non of their business." Does that sound like someone that's remorseful or thinks she did something truly wrong?


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> These were her words last night "yes I have to face the music and yes people will know what I did but no one is going to bring me down or make me crumble. If they ask what happened, I will just tell them it is non of their business." Does that sound like someone that's remorseful or thinks she did something truly wrong?


Absolutely not.


----------



## Acabado

She a totaly unrepetant, defiant serial cheater completely devoid of empathy, someone who doesn't care lying and sneaking and backstabbing the people she pretends to love, who doesn't feel any weight on her conscience, who doesn't care at all about the consequences her actions will bring on anyone except for herself.
The sooner you realize and internalize who she is the sooner the mind movies will vanish.


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> It's a day to day thing. I am still hurt and the mindmovies are there but it angers me to no-end how 1) she did this; and 2) how she doesn't see the severity of it.
> 
> These were her words last night "yes I have to face the music and yes people will know what I did but no one is going to bring me down or make me crumble. If they ask what happened, I will just tell them it is non of their business." Does that sound like someone that's remorseful or thinks she did something truly wrong?


She sounds like a cold hearted b*tch.


----------



## SF-FAN

Healer said:


> She sounds like a cold hearted b*tch.


She is. I just hope the old adage "karma is a b*tch" holds true. She deserves nothing good until she realizes what she did and takes steps to become a better person.


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> She is. I just hope the old adage "karma is a b*tch" holds true. She deserves nothing good until she realizes what she did and takes steps to become a better person.


The way she is going now she will have a difficult time establishing a long term relationship that's just my opinion. I know you are hurting get some ic when you can.


----------



## SF-FAN

What's funny is that we scheduled a MC appt. before DDay. And, during her condescending rant that she'd be transparent, she also said she would still go to MC. MC is not cheap and our insurance won't kick in until March so I don't know if it's even worth it to go. I called the MC and she said that she recommends we go at least to one session. I don't know if it will do any good now.


----------



## SF-FAN

As far as IC, I plan to go and can't wait but like I said it is not cheap so I am waiting for my insurance to kick in. This whole Obamacare screwed with our previous insurance policy.


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> As far as IC, I plan to go and can't wait but like I said it is not cheap so I am waiting for my insurance to kick in. This whole Obamacare screwed with our previous insurance policy.


Yes it has screwed everyone's insurance and that's whole other thread.
Cancel mc for now.


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> What's funny is that we scheduled a MC appt. before DDay. And, during her condescending rant that she'd be transparent, she also said she would still go to MC. MC is not cheap and our insurance won't kick in until March so I don't know if it's even worth it to go. I called the MC and she said that she recommends we go at least to one session. I don't know if it will do any good now.


Total waste of money. As has been pointed out before, your wife is totally not remorseful, and you don't know if she's ended the affair, so there is absolutely NO use doing MC. The money would be far better spend on IC for yourself.


----------



## tainted

Its sad that your wife is right, noone is going to crumble her. She is a POS and pieces of shyt crumble on themselves when they dry up. 

This is her second affair that you know of. MC would be pointless.


----------



## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> It's a day to day thing. I am still hurt and the mindmovies are there but it angers me to no-end how 1) she did this; and 2) how she doesn't see the severity of it.
> 
> These were her words last night "yes I have to face the music and yes people will know what I did but no one is going to bring me down or make me crumble. If they ask what happened, I will just tell them it is non of their business." Does that sound like someone that's remorseful or thinks she did something truly wrong?


Did you say, well if they ask me.. I'll tell them the truth, and not make up a pile of garbage.. so your strategy is a good one, that way they won't be confused when our stories don't match up. I wouldn't expect you to crumble, because that'd require that you actually start being honest with yourself, and stop filling your own head with lies.. like the one about you being a good parent. Good parents don't use and abuse the other parent, they don't sneak and lie to get away from the family, they set a good example of honesty and integrity, not of excuse making and denial. 

Don't talk to her anymore about it.. tell her you have nothing else to say, you don't want to hear her mouth making noise anymore because nothing worth hearing is coming out of it. Tell her when she comes back to reality, you can talk.. but as long as she's living in affair land, go talk to her boyfriend, let him tell her she's a great mom and they can fill each others heads full of sweet lies...


----------



## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> What's funny is that we scheduled a MC appt. before DDay. And, during her condescending rant that she'd be transparent, she also said she would still go to MC. MC is not cheap and our insurance won't kick in until March so I don't know if it's even worth it to go. I called the MC and she said that she recommends we go at least to one session. I don't know if it will do any good now.


Cancel MC.. It'll be a wasted hour... or don't show up, let her show up alone.. but if it's going to cost you, cancel.. 

Tell her you'll go to MC as soon as she dumps her boyfriend and starts acting like a wife... until then she should look for some IC to work out her self esteem and lack of self respect issues..

If you even want to bother, I might just stick with the not telling her anything other than "when you come to pick up your things I won't be here, I'll have someone let you in.. the locks are changed so your key won't work" Something like that.


----------



## ThePheonix

SF-FAN said:


> Does that sound like someone that's remorseful or thinks she did something truly wrong?


Dawg, I don't think anybody here has or will accuse your wife of being remorseful. This and the other stuff should prove you and her ain't on the same page regarding marriage and relationships. Its like my cousin Jac, from New Iberia Louisiana would say, "boy you better cut dat gator loose for she get hold to your udder hand."


----------



## Racer

MC is pointless; Nothing 'marriage' about this relationship anymore. If anything, shift it to divorce counseling and how to handle the kids to make that transition work better.


----------



## Hope1964

The ONLY reason to go to MC would be if you have the D papers all ready and you could serve her there


----------



## syhoybenden

SF-FAN said:


> What's funny is that we scheduled a MC appt. before DDay. And, during her condescending rant that she'd be transparent, she also said she would still go to MC. MC is not cheap and our insurance won't kick in until March so I don't know if it's even worth it to go. I called the MC and she said that she recommends we go at least to one session. I don't know if it will do any good now.


Don't waste your time on the MC right now. MC is completely useless when one partner is in an active affair.

Funny thing, did you know that as a group that MC's have a higher rate of divorce than the general population?


----------



## SF-FAN

russell28 said:


> Did you say, well if they ask me.. I'll tell them the truth, and not make up a pile of garbage.. so your strategy is a good one, that way they won't be confused when our stories don't match up. I wouldn't expect you to crumble, because that'd require that you actually start being honest with yourself, and stop filling your own head with lies.. like the one about you being a good parent. Good parents don't use and abuse the other parent, they don't sneak and lie to get away from the family, they set a good example of honesty and integrity, not of excuse making and denial.
> 
> Don't talk to her anymore about it.. tell her you have nothing else to say, you don't want to hear her mouth making noise anymore because nothing worth hearing is coming out of it. Tell her when she comes back to reality, you can talk.. but as long as she's living in affair land, go talk to her boyfriend, let him tell her she's a great mom and they can fill each others heads full of sweet lies...


Actually I did tell her that. Almost word for word! She obviously didn't like it and began deflecting and blame shifting saying I haven't been there, our marriage has been bad, I am not as good of a father as I should be, excuse after excuse.

Funny thing is during this cold period, I've been attempting to talk, be affectionate, spend alone time, and nothing. She rejects it. She is in lala land trying to justify her actions. Everyone in her family knows she does not take any responsibility for her actions. She doesn't get it.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> What's funny is that we scheduled a MC appt. before DDay. And, during her condescending rant that she'd be transparent, she also said she would still go to MC. MC is not cheap and our insurance won't kick in until March so I don't know if it's even worth it to go. I called the MC and she said that she recommends we go at least to one session. I don't know if it will do any good now.


Waste of your time and money. 

Take that money and spend it on yourself...updating your wardrobe, buying workout equipment, flat screen TV....


----------



## Healer

tainted said:


> Its sad that your wife is right, noone is going to crumble her. She is a POS and pieces of shyt crumble on themselves when they dry up.
> 
> This is her second affair that you know of. MC would be pointless.


Oh yes - she will fall. Maybe not right away, but it will happen. And when it does, I'm hoping SF is in a good place and he can just shake his head and carry on living the good life.


----------



## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> Actually I did tell her that. Almost word for word! She obviously didn't like it and began deflecting and blame shifting saying I haven't been there, our marriage has been bad, I am not as good of a father as I should be, excuse after excuse.
> 
> Funny thing is during this cold period, I've been attempting to talk, be affectionate, spend alone time, and nothing. She rejects it. She is in lala land trying to justify her actions. Everyone in her family knows she does not take any responsibility for her actions. She doesn't get it.



Deflection... 

If you haven't been there, who's watching the kids while she's out on dates with her lover? How would she know if you're there or not, since she checked out long ago..

Marriage has been bad.. because yea, when the wife takes a lover that often leads to problems in the marriage.

Not as good a father as should be, but setting an example of honesty and integrity and not of lying and cheating, and not sneaking out on them or lying to them... so not perfect, but light years away from the abuse of cheating.

Don't let her dump any of that crap on you...


----------



## SF-FAN

russell28 said:


> Deflection...
> 
> If you haven't been there, who's watching the kids while she's out on dates with her lover? How would she know if you're there or not, since she checked out long ago..
> 
> Marriage has been bad.. because yea, when the wife takes a lover that often leads to problems in the marriage.
> 
> Not as good a father as should be, but setting an example of honesty and integrity and not of lying and cheating, and not sneaking out on them or lying to them... so not perfect, but light years away from the abuse of cheating.
> 
> Don't let her dump any of that crap on you...


I don't. I am not a perfect father. Like I said, I wear my emotions on my sleeve so if I'm down, I don't interact with my kids like I should but I am there for them regardless. I don't leave. She just wants me to have fault in why she did what she did. She has never EVER been good at taking responsibility for her actions. Her family told me that recently. What's funny as well is that about 2 weeks ago, she got into it with her mom and sisters because they confronted her about not being home like a mother should be. She hasn't talked to them since. Now me finding out about her weekend; she's looking for anyway to blame this on someone else.


----------



## ThePheonix

russell28 said:


> Don't let her dump any of that crap on you...


Or he could merely accept the fact that the marriage has been bad, (after all she plays an equal role) he is not as good of a father as I should be (I'm sure he'd agree he's not perfect and never will be) etc. The good news is that he's not expected by any reasonable person to be perfect or even near perfect.
Just tell her, "hey I fully accept you're not and never will be happy with me, nor will I put up with your reactions to your unhappiness any longer, so lets make other arrangements. She can start by, doing like many women, getting a full time job rather than spending her leisure time dreaming about what other guys have to offer.


----------



## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> I don't. I am not a perfect father. Like I said, I wear my emotions on my sleeve so if I'm down, I don't interact with my kids like I should but I am there for them regardless. I don't leave. She just wants me to have fault in why she did what she did. She has never EVER been good at taking responsibility for her actions. Her family told me that recently. What's funny as well is that about 2 weeks ago, she got into it with her mom and sisters because they confronted her about not being home like a mother should be. She hasn't talked to them since. Now me finding out about her weekend; she's looking for anyway to blame this on someone else.


Other people will try to do it too.. I got from one relative, 'now you have to ask yourself what you were doing wrong in the marriage, like I know you've always been jealous and controlling...' I told her that's because I was aware on a sub-conscious level that my wife had poor boundaries and was a flirt and would get too close to men that weren't her husband.. it was my spidey sense picking up that she was a flight risk... 

Funny, since we're in R, and she's going out of her way to not wear provocative clothing (she doesn't own any anymore), I no longer see her ass crack... I'm not jealous! go figure... Amazingly, now that she actually cares that it makes me uncomfortable, she wears big girl pants that you can bend over in. Now that she doesn't vanish for four hours at a time, I'm no longer controlling... (never ever ever stopped her from going anywhere or complained, just wanted to know why it took four hours to go shirt shopping and she has no shirts...) She'd go to places with 'friends', to her sisters to 'feed the cat', for drives, shopping, always going out.. I never cared, because I figured she was happy.

I was not controlling, and my jealousy was because my wife was being a c*ck.. tease right in front of me, and pretending she didn't know what she was doing.

One good thing I got out of this whole cluster F.... I will no longer tolerate any of that, it's done.. I had no idea what was going on, but now that I know, I'm in control. That's where you need to get, in control.. whether in R or D, you need to be the one in the drivers seat from now on.


----------



## russell28

ThePheonix said:


> Or he could merely accept the fact that the marriage has been bad, (after all she plays an equal role) he is not as good of a father as I should be (I'm sure he'd agree he's not perfect and never will be) etc. The good news is that he's not expected by any reasonable person to be perfect or even near perfect.
> Just tell her, "hey I fully accept you're not and never will be happy with me, nor will I put up with your reactions to your unhappiness, so lets make other arrangements. She can start by, doing like many women, getting a full time job rather than spending her leisure time dreaming about what other guys have to offer.


Oh god, she has no job? Get her a job before you divorce her please.... (sigh)....


----------



## russell28

I have a new idea.. any time she tries to talk to you, ask:

Shouldn't you be looking for a job?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Found the evidence of wife having an affair*



SF-FAN said:


> I don't. I am not a perfect father. Like I said, I wear my emotions on my sleeve so if I'm down, I don't interact with my kids like I should but I am there for them regardless. I don't leave. She just wants me to have fault in why she did what she did. She has never EVER been good at taking responsibility for her actions. Her family told me that recently. What's funny as well is that about 2 weeks ago, she got into it with her mom and sisters because they confronted her about not being home like a mother should be. She hasn't talked to them since. Now me finding out about her weekend; she's looking for anyway to blame this on someone else.


Sounds like the perfect time to expose this to her family. Now they'll know why she was never home.


----------



## SF-FAN

russell28 said:


> Oh god, she has no job? Get her a job before you divorce her please.... (sigh)....


She has a part time job because she goes to school. She will have to get another job or something in which she will probably find another guy. I really don't care at this point.


----------



## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> She has a part time job because she goes to school. She will have to get another job or something in which she will probably find another guy. I really don't care at this point.


I'm sure she'll find many guys.. if they're smart, they'll run like hell...


----------



## SF-FAN

russell28 said:


> I'm sure she'll find many guys.. if they're smart, they'll run like hell...


She doesn't show her *****y cold hearted side until she has what she wants. Funny, I spoke to her mom and her mom compared her to a child playing with a toy, getting bored and moving on to another toy. She's absolutely right - his woman will never be wife material or settle down. She doesn't know how to.


----------



## Tobyboy

I usually say expose the affair to kill it, but in this case hold off and use as leverage to get what you want in the divorce. And screw MC!! Save your money for your divorce case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

SF is going to have to pay her alimony no matter what. CA family law sucks for the primary breadwinner. 

Why any single guy would ever get married or reside in CA is beyond me. Nice place to visit, no so nice place to live.


----------



## tom67

Since you both are hurting financially, see if she'll agree to mediation.
I would hope she would do this if you tell her how much you both will be saving.


----------



## SF-FAN

Tobyboy said:


> I usually say expose the affair to kill it, but in this case hold off and use as leverage to get what you want in the divorce. And screw MC!! Save your money for your divorce case.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've called her siblings and mom but they didn't pick up. I'm thinking she might try to beat me to the punch to attempt to justify her actions to them. She may try to make me look like a monster but it won't work, she's tried in the past. 

Get this, last night she did start tearing up a little bit and told me that if I truly cared about saving our marriage I should have immediately hugged her when she got home, told her I hated her for what she did but love her enough to work through it. That I wasn't saving our marriage for her reputation but because I truly wanted to and truly love her.:scratchhead:


----------



## alte Dame

Human psychology is sometimes complex, sometimes pretty simple.

You've been a doormat for her & she has felt secure enough to treat you badly as she does what she wants. The minute you stand up for yourself, she stops feeling so secure that she can just treat you any way she wants. It's so predictable, it's like jerking on a chain.

Please keep making it clear that the free ride is over. Work on the 180 in order to detach. This will help you see her behavior for what it has really been.

Would it matter to you if you had proof that it was more than one weekend? It's been going on for a while, I'm sure. She's a liar.


----------



## sinnister

SF-FAN said:


> I've called her siblings and mom but they didn't pick up. I'm thinking she might try to beat me to the punch to attempt to justify her actions to them. She may try to make me look like a monster but it won't work, she's tried in the past.
> 
> Get this, last night she did start tearing up a little bit and told me that if I truly cared about saving our marriage I should have immediately hugged her when she got home, told her I hated her for what she did but love her enough to work through it. That I wasn't saving our marriage for her reputation but because I truly wanted to and truly love her.:scratchhead:


You're a smart guy. I can tell you know that's BS. 

Trying to make you look like the bad guy in all this. Master illusionist.


----------



## SF-FAN

alte Dame said:


> Human psychology is sometimes complex, sometimes pretty simple.
> 
> You've been a doormat for her & she has felt secure enough to treat you badly as she does what she wants. The minute you stand up for yourself, she stops feeling so secure that she can just treat you any way she wants. It's so predictable, it's like jerking on a chain.
> 
> Please keep making it clear that the free ride is over. Work on the 180 in order to detach. This will help you see her behavior for what it has really been.
> 
> Would it matter to you if you had proof that it was more than one weekend? It's been going on for a while, I'm sure. She's a liar.


I don't care about proof of more than 1 encounter. Their is no doubt in my mind there was. She is a liar and everyone knows it, even her own family.



sinnister said:


> You're a smart guy. I can tell you know that's BS.
> 
> Trying to make you look like the bad guy in all this. Master illusionist.


Oh yes, she is trying.


----------



## russell28

SF-FAN said:


> I've called her siblings and mom but they didn't pick up. I'm thinking she might try to beat me to the punch to attempt to justify her actions to them. She may try to make me look like a monster but it won't work, she's tried in the past.
> 
> Get this, last night she did start tearing up a little bit and told me that if I truly cared about saving our marriage I should have immediately hugged her when she got home, told her I hated her for what she did but love her enough to work through it. That I wasn't saving our marriage for her reputation but because I truly wanted to and truly love her.:scratchhead:


She tells you what you should do.. what you should feel.. 

Ask what she's doing to save the marriage, has she talked about it with her boyfriend?


----------



## SF-FAN

russell28 said:


> She tells you what you should do.. what you should feel..
> 
> Ask what she's doing to save the marriage, has she talked about it with her boyfriend?


Oh I'm sure she has. He's probably reassuring her that it was all my fault, she's a great mother, her family won't blame her, it will blow over eventually. I'm sure of it. He has a rep for being an a*shole so now that I found out about the affair, I would be surprised it lasts.

She's the type that does something because it's thrilling and new. Now that it won't be thrilling, it will get old for her soon. Like a new toy getting old.


----------



## SF-FAN

As I mentioned before, DDay she was bawling and remorseful beyond belief. Funny how a day later she is acting like Ms. Independent and not as remorseful.


----------



## Healer

russell28 said:


> I have a new idea.. any time she tries to talk to you, ask:
> 
> Shouldn't you be looking for a job?


I would love to see the reaction to this.


----------



## SF-FAN

ThePheonix said:


> I think he said she works part time. Seems she ain't no hard charger.


Not sure what you mean by hard charger but I do have to say when she is in the right frame of mind, she is a hard worker. School, a particular project, etc. But when her thinking is clouded or there's a distraction, she is not.


----------



## ThePheonix

I withdrew my post Dawg.


----------



## 3putt

bfree said:


> Sounds like the perfect time to expose this to her family. Now they'll know why she was never home.


And also so she won't have a chance to put her spin on things, which you can bet is in the process of happening right now.


----------



## SF-FAN

3putt said:


> And also so she won't have a chance to put her spin on things, which you can bet is in the process of happening right now.


Good thing is no matter what she says, her family will not believe her. Like I said, her mom, siblings and even grandmother are all mad at her because they got into a big argument a few weeks ago. She lied to them all - they all suspected her of cheating and she denied, got mad and walked out on them. She has zero credibility with them. 

She's run to her family when we argue or get into a fight. She tries to make me look bad. Funny thing is her mom calls me to get my side of the story and says she knows her daughter is a pathological liar. MY WW recently found out about this which was also part of the recent argument with her family.


----------



## SF-FAN

Oh and she blamed her family for the fight. Like I said, she has zero accountability for her actions.


----------



## SF-FAN

I am doing the 180, did it last night and I know she is wondering why I am not begging her to talk. Haven't talked to her today. Today has been a rollercoaster. Felt better earlier but now just the thought of them at the hotel on their weekend trip is tearing me apart.


----------



## just got it 55

JustPuzzled said:


> Perhaps she got some positive reinforcement overnight from OM as outlined above. Very likely.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 :iagree: Without a doubt

55


----------



## Hope1964

There's far more to the 180 than just not talking to her. You have to become a 'new you'. The HAPPY you that has nothing to do with her. Who works out, enjoys his own things, and has moved on. Do not forget - you do the 180 for YOU and only you. NOT for her or to 'win her back'.


----------



## Philat

SF-FAN said:


> I am doing the 180, did it last night and I know she is wondering why I am not begging her to talk. Haven't talked to her today. Today has been a rollercoaster. Felt better earlier but now just the thought of them at the hotel on their weekend trip is tearing me apart.


SF: Obviously easier said than done, but try looking at it from the point of view that the POSOM is now stuck with a pathological lying narcissist, while you have managed to free yourself.


----------



## SF-FAN

Philat said:


> SF: Obviously easier said than done, but try looking at it from the point of view that the POSOM is now stuck with a pathological lying narcissist, while you have managed to free yourself.


Just hate the fact that she is not hurting as much as I am.


----------



## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> There's far more to the 180 than just not talking to her. You have to become a 'new you'. The HAPPY you that has nothing to do with her. Who works out, enjoys his own things, and has moved on. Do not forget - you do the 180 for YOU and only you. NOT for her or to 'win her back'.


Yeah, that's the part I'm having trouble with. Aside from spending time with my kids, nothing sounds fun. Watching tv isn't entertaining, nothing sounds interesting to do. It's all part of the pain I'm feeling unfortunately. I'm hurting, bad, and when you hurt it's hard to go out and have a good time.


----------



## Clay2013

I would signup to meetup.com. Depending on where you are at they have lots of things to do. Its not about having fun its about getting on with your life. It sucks but honestly your going to hurt regardless of what you are doing. So why not go meet new people and make the best of it. The pain will start to go away in time. 

Clay


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Just hate the fact that she is not hurting as much as I am.


all in good time my man. all in good time. there will come a day when you are healthy, happy, successful and in love with a woman who cares about you and your kids. POSWW will be standing on the sidelines wondering how in the hell she let that life get away from her. When the time is right, you will rebuild your castle and it will be bigger and stronger than ever. Good luck bro


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> Yeah, that's the part I'm having trouble with. Aside from spending time with my kids, nothing sounds fun. Watching tv isn't entertaining, nothing sounds interesting to do. It's all part of the pain I'm feeling unfortunately. I'm hurting, bad, and when you hurt it's hard to go out and have a good time.


Fake it till you make it. Seriously.

What do you normally do for exercise?


----------



## Philat

SF-FAN said:


> Just hate the fact that she is not hurting as much as I am.


As a pathological lying narcissist she is incapable of this.


----------



## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> Fake it till you make it. Seriously.
> 
> What do you normally do for exercise?


I go to the gym a few times a week during lunch. That hasn't changed.


----------



## lifeisbetterthanalternat

Sorry for what you are going through....I cannot imagine. 

To me from what you are saying she is not sorry..only that she is caught. You may ultimately not want her back after the smoke clears and you are thinking differently. For this reason your first action should be to call a lawyer. Most men get the shaft in a divorce and you will want to take all the correct measures to get the best settlement and not have her bust your ba##s to see the kids. In most states you have to be a pretty bad mom to not get primary custody. I know allot of DH that would drive and hour to pick up the kids for the weekend only to find them not home. 

If you think she is being rotten now, just wait until you start fighting for your rights and money....remember..hell hath no furry...

good luck, i will pray for you!


----------



## SF-FAN

Philat said:


> As a pathological lying narcissist she is incapable of this.


Unfortunately, you are right.


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> I go to the gym a few times a week during lunch. That hasn't changed.


Good for you! You could even try stepping it up a bit. Exercise helps the mood improve.

What about your eating habits? How are they?


----------



## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> Good for you! You could even try stepping it up a bit. Exercise helps the mood improve.
> 
> What about your eating habits? How are they?


Appetite is not there but have eaten here and there. Not like a normal person should eat but it's hard to enjoy a meal with such a bad deep pain in the chest and stomach.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to see your MD as soon as possible, even an urgent care center. They see this a lot. They can give you some stuff to even thing out a bit. Temporarily of course.


----------



## SF-FAN

lifeisbetterthanalternat said:


> Sorry for what you are going through....I cannot imagine.
> 
> To me from what you are saying she is not sorry..only that she is caught. You may ultimately not want her back after the smoke clears and you are thinking differently. For this reason your first action should be to call a lawyer. Most men get the shaft in a divorce and you will want to take all the correct measures to get the best settlement and not have her bust your ba##s to see the kids. In most states you have to be a pretty bad mom to not get primary custody. I know allot of DH that would drive and hour to pick up the kids for the weekend only to find them not home.
> 
> If you think she is being rotten now, just wait until you start fighting for your rights and money....remember..hell hath no furry...
> 
> good luck, i will pray for you!


Oh I'm sure but she is not the one that was scorned. She says that she'll never keep me from the kids and I do believe that because her family would not allow it. Plus she has to have a sitter because of work and school. She has no choice. She doesn't want to go to court because she doesn't want the truth to come out more than it has so she is pretty willing to let me do as I please right now.


----------



## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> You need to see your MD as soon as possible, even an urgent care center. They see this a lot. They can give you some stuff to even thing out a bit. Temporarily of course.


Like antidepressants?


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> Appetite is not there but have eaten here and there. Not like a normal person should eat but it's hard to enjoy a meal with such a bad deep pain in the chest and stomach.


Get some Boost and drink that if you really can't eat.

You don't need to enjoy it but your body needs the nutrition, especially if you're still working out.

What are your eating habits like normally?


----------



## Hope1964

SF-FAN said:


> Like antidepressants?


You can get them if you feel you really need them. They do help some people through the rough part. They can delay the healing process though, so use with caution.


----------



## SF-FAN

Hope1964 said:


> Get some Boost and drink that if you really can't eat.
> 
> You don't need to enjoy it but your body needs the nutrition, especially if you're still working out.
> 
> What are your eating habits like normally?


Granola bar for breakfast, light snacks throughout the day then dinner.



Hope1964 said:


> You can get them if you feel you really need them. They do help some people through the rough part. They can delay the healing process though, so use with caution.


Honestly I just want to sleep and not wake up. That's the only time that I don't feel this pain. Though the first night after DDay I didn't get much sleep.


----------



## Thorburn

SF-FAN said:


> Granola bar for breakfast, light snacks throughout the day then dinner.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I just want to sleep and not wake up. That's the only time that I don't feel this pain. Though the first night after DDay I didn't get much sleep.


It is what we call passive suicide. Keep talking here. If you have to go to the E.R. if things get really bad in your head. She is not worth dying over.


----------



## SF-FAN

Thorburn said:


> It is what we call passive suicide. Keep talking here. If you have to go to the E.R. if things get really bad in your head. She is not worth dying over.


Now way, I would never contemplate suicide ever! I am just saying that is unfortunately the only time I don't feel pain (when sleeping) so I wish I could stay asleep. I am just venting and if it wasn't for this site, I don't know where I'd be.


----------



## brokeneric

SF, got friends and family close by? Hang out with them. It will help you immensely.


----------



## Stressedandsad

SF-FAN said:


> Granola bar for breakfast, light snacks throughout the day then dinner.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I just want to sleep and not wake up. That's the only time that I don't feel this pain. Though the first night after DDay I didn't get much sleep.


I understand that kind of pain!


----------



## SF-FAN

brokeneric said:


> SF, got friends and family close by? Hang out with them. It will help you immensely.


Yes but they all have kids, lives of their own. I screwed myself by becoming so codependent. Now I am seeing how stupid that was.


----------



## SF-FAN

If you recall from a previous post, the WW and her family have not talked for several weeks because of her behavior (being gone all the time, leaving the kids with me most of the time, etc.) Well he mom just called me to let me know, the WW sent her a text to apologize and to say she wants to talk.

Well I told my mother-in-law about the affair and she wasn't shocked because they suspected as much but she was disgusted that her daughter could do that. She was pretty angry so we'll see how their talk goes.

On the flip side, while I want her family to basically disown her, I know that won't happen because it just doesn't. Her family will be mad, give her an ear full but they will move on. It kills me that there are no real consequences for cheaters. The spouses that are cheated on are more often than not the ones left with the real pain. Somehow exposing doesn't feel as good as I thought it would.


----------



## Hope1964

I recall wanting to sleep a lot at first also.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> If you recall from a previous post, the WW and her family have not talked for several weeks because of her behavior (being gone all the time, leaving the kids with me most of the time, etc.) Well he mom just called me to let me know, the WW sent her a text to apologize and to say she wants to talk.
> 
> Well I told my mother-in-law about the affair and she wasn't shocked because they suspected as much but she was disgusted that her daughter could do that. She was pretty angry so we'll see how their talk goes.
> 
> On the flip side, while I want her family to basically disown her, I know that won't happen because it just doesn't. Her family will be mad, give her an ear full but they will move on. It kills me that there are no real consequences for cheaters. The spouses that are cheated on are more often than not the ones left with the real pain. Somehow exposing doesn't feel as good as I thought it would.


Would you stop with the "there are no real consequences for cheaters". The better you are at not just surviving, but thriving post D-Day, the tougher her consequences will be. I know it sounds cliche, but its true. Work hard, look good, be healthy, be successful, find a super cool ass hot chick and POSWW is on her 4th guy of the year, the consequences of her actions will staring at her in the mirror every day


----------



## bandit.45

Philat said:


> As a pathological lying narcissist she is incapable of this.


One day, in the future, she will hurt worse. 

The Great Circle of Dumbassedness will come around 360 degrees and she will reap the consequences of her dumbass decisions. 

Oh maybe not right away, maybe not even in ten years, but somewhere down the line it will happen. Take cold comfort in that.


----------



## brokeneric

Sleep is the only time I don't have to worry I might trigger. Yes, nightmares are there. Still sleep is better than being awake.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> On the flip side, while I want her family to basically disown her, I know that won't happen because it just doesn't. *Her family will be mad, give her an ear full but they will move on.* It kills me that there are no real consequences for cheaters. The spouses that are cheated on are more often than not the ones left with the real pain. Somehow exposing doesn't feel as good as I thought it would.


Yeah, they may move on, but will they ever take her seriously again? Will her mom and dad die proud of her? I think not. 

Nevertheless, now that you have exposed and set the record straight, you need to start making the gradual detachment from them as well. Pretty soon you will no longer be a member of their family, and you might as well start adjusting to it now as later.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, they may move on, but will they ever take her seriously again? Will her mom and dad die proud of her? I think not.
> 
> Nevertheless, now that you have exposed and set the record straight, you need to start making the gradual detachment from them as well. Pretty soon you will no longer be a mameber of their family, and you might as well start adjusting to it now as later.


And that's unfortunate because her family loves me and I love them.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> Would you stop with the "there are no real consequences for cheaters". The better you are at not just surviving, but thriving post D-Day, the tougher her consequences will be. I know it sounds cliche, but its true. Work hard, look good, be healthy, be successful, find a super cool ass hot chick and POSWW is on her 4th guy of the year, the consequences of her actions will staring at her in the mirror every day


Yeah I know, I guess I just want vindication. It's a reflex, like if someone killed your friend or family member, you want them to die too or at least suffer.


----------



## BashfulB

SF-FAN said:


> Yeah I know, I guess I just want vindication. It's a reflex, like if someone killed your friend or family member, you want them to die too or at least suffer.


I know the pain you are going through too well.

Just don't give in to thoughts of vengence or payback, because that's alot of negative energy that just reverberates back onto you. It's not healthy. 

Love your children, cry with them, give them big hugs and tell them you will always be there for them. 

That's better medicine than sitting around ruminating over your faithless wife's decline.


----------



## mahike

SF everything you are feeling is pretty normal. She turned your life up side down by her choices and you get left hold the bag of crab.

Exposure was never going to make you feel better. It is about getting the truth out there to kill the A and to make sure people like your in laws no what is really going on. You have kids you will see them off and on for the rest of your life, birthdays, graduations, weddings and so on.

Bandit is right she will get hit by the Karma bus a some point they always do and work on detachment from her, that is what the 180 is all about


----------



## the guy

SF-FAN said:


> She doesn't show her *****y cold hearted side until she has what she wants. Funny, I spoke to her mom and her mom compared her to a child playing with a toy, getting bored and moving on to another toy. She's absolutely right - his woman will never be wife material or settle down. She doesn't know how to.


no kidding....three kinds and let me guess...three different bio dads?


----------



## SF-FAN

Man these mental movies are no joke. I forget about them for a time and they creep back in. I have done some breathing exercises like someone advised but it's hard. Another man touching your wife is a hard pill to swallow.

If I could get passed this, I'd be in a better place.


----------



## SF-FAN

the guy said:


> no kidding....three kinds and let me guess...three different bio dads?


Yup!! I am the third. She did a procedure after we had our son so she can't have anymore kids which I think is a big blessing. Otherwise I'm sure the 4th father would be on his way soon.


----------



## Remains

Time is the only thing that makes the mind movies fade. Just time.

And 3 kids, 3 dads! Wow! Says it all.


----------



## the guy

So you have struggles with mind movies.

I hope this helps...in my case I had to force them out as soon as they came. I would tell my self " I deserve good things"

I would repeat it a hundred times a day as soon my head went to that dark place I told my self that I'm better then this "I DESERVE GOOD THINGS"

I will not let my old ladies dirty deads define me " I deserve good things"

Its like when that devil pops up on my shoulder I brush it off " I deserve good things"

That devil is not going to get control. I'm a good man and great sensitive lover and there ugly poor @ss sexcaped has nothing on me ...I am and always will be a better man in bed and in any relationship. "I deserve good things"

Brother do not let this crap take over force it out of your head ...repeat over and over again "I deserve good things.


If this tactic doesn't work then think of their weekend sex party as two clowns with big red noses trying to have sex. this was mentioned in another thread and it seemed to work for the poor guy.

you just have to believe in your self ..knowing your are a better lover....

Besides the reason she started to become more affectionaite as of late is cus the POSOM sucked in bed and she bailed on him after the weekend sex thing wasn't all that. But at this point who cares..."you deserve good things"

FYI my mind moves faded away...from a million times a day to once a day ,to once a week...but they will fade so start fighting them off.

You have to fight off that crap that goes on in your head..replace it with positive thinking.. you have to fight your own mind for a while but it will fade. in time you will meet a new chick and then the mind movies will really fade.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> Man these mental movies are no joke. I forget about them for a time and they creep back in. I have done some breathing exercises like someone advised but it's hard. Another man touching your wife is a hard pill to swallow.
> 
> If I could get passed this, I'd be in a better place.


you WILL get this passed this. i know it hurts. most of us here have been there, but we are here to tell you that you will start feeling better but it takes *time*.

take care of yourself, be there for your kids and know that you will soon be in a better place. and stop concerning yourself with her or her "getting away" with this. she'll have to face up to what she's done one of these days and it will not be pretty for her. i promise.


----------



## jnj express

Your visions are your sub-conscious doing its thing---unless you actually have all the details---the visions are filling in as your imagination kicks in as to what your WW---did with her lover---they won't lessen till this over, and she is out of your life---and maybe not even then

As to her argument, about the mge in difficulty----your answer to anymore crap she throws at you---should be----why didn't you forcefully work on the mge, and help us to work thru the problems----that is what should have been done---instead she spread her legs for another man--------

As to now her attitude is as it is---cuz everything is words right now----you have taken no action---her attitude will change once she has been served, as she then knows D is in her future-------you better believe she will change----right now---you must stay the course---and in no way shape or form, permit her to manipulate you----which will happen as soon as she realizes this is now a deadly serious matter


----------



## RyanBingham

SF-FAN said:


> It kills me that there are no real consequences for cheaters. The spouses that are cheated on are more often than not the ones left with the real pain. Somehow exposing doesn't feel as good as I thought it would.


SF - you will ultimately be delivering her the consequences: divorce papers, kicking her to the curb, her living in a 1 bedroom shack, and having her hear about your new hotter girl friend. 

See how that works?


----------



## just got it 55

sf-fan said:


> yup!! I am the third. She did a procedure after we had our son so she can't have anymore kids which i think is a big blessing. Otherwise i'm sure the 4th father would be on his way soon.


holy sh!t


----------



## barbados

Remains said:


> Time is the only thing that makes the mind movies fade. Just time.
> 
> And 3 kids, 3 dads! Wow! Says it all.


Sure does !

SF, right now your priorities need to be : 

1) Yourself

2) YOUR biological child.

While its admirable that you care for the other 2 kids present, they are no longer your problem. She is on her second affair during your marriage (that you know of) and is a person who should not be having kids in the first place.

Time for bio dads #1 & #2 to step up and get involved. And if they are deadbeats or in jail, or whatever, THAT IS NO LONGER YOUR PROBLEM !!

She had them, and her a$$ needs to take care of them ! NOT YOU !!!

SF, D this sorry person ASAP, take care of YOUR child, move on with your life.


----------



## tom67

barbados said:


> Sure does !
> 
> SF, right now your priorities need to be :
> 
> 1) Yourself
> 
> 2) YOUR biological child.
> 
> While its admirable that you care for the other 2 kids present, they are no longer your problem. She is on her second affair during your marriage (that you know of) and is a person who should not be having kids in the first place.
> 
> Time for bio dads #1 & #2 to step up and get involved. And if they are deadbeats or in jail, or whatever, THAT IS NO LONGER YOUR PROBLEM !!
> 
> She had them, and her a$$ needs to take care of them ! NOT YOU !!!
> 
> SF, D this sorry person ASAP, take care of YOUR child, move on with your life.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## happi_g_more2

Remains said:


> Time is the only thing that makes the mind movies fade. Just time.
> 
> And 3 kids, 3 dads! Wow! Says it all.


Boy it sure does. Note to self
***Check how many men have fathered children with next woman i date****


----------



## ThePheonix

SF-FAN said:


> Another man touching your wife is a hard pill to swallow.
> 
> If I could get passed this, I'd be in a better place.


I hate to be this blunt Dawg, but you weren't the first and won't be the last. It's not like she was pure as the driven snow when you married her. I mean the chick knew what was going on in the sex department before she met you. It ain't no mystery or magic to it my man. 
But its like an operation my man. There's gonna be pain and healing. Take my word for it, you get over it. If you are still in this place a few month from now, tell me I lied about it.
The dependency crap is all in your mind. You got along fine before your met her, you would have got along fine if you'd never met her, and you'll get alone fine, and probably a hell of a lot better, without her.


----------



## SF-FAN

the guy said:


> So you have struggles with mind movies.
> 
> I hope this helps...in my case I had to force them out as soon as they came. I would tell my self " I deserve good things"
> 
> I would repeat it a hundred times a day as soon my head went to that dark place I told my self that I'm better then this "I DESERVE GOOD THINGS"
> 
> I will not let my old ladies dirty deads define me " I deserve good things"
> 
> Its like when that devil pops up on my shoulder I brush it off " I deserve good things"
> 
> That devil is not going to get control. I'm a good man and great sensitive lover and there ugly poor @ss sexcaped has nothing on me ...I am and always will be a better man in bed and in any relationship. "I deserve good things"
> 
> Brother do not let this crap take over force it out of your head ...repeat over and over again "I deserve good things.
> 
> 
> If this tactic doesn't work then think of their weekend sex party as two clowns with big red noses trying to have sex. this was mentioned in another thread and it seemed to work for the poor guy.
> 
> you just have to believe in your self ..knowing your are a better lover....
> 
> Besides the reason she started to become more affectionaite as of late is cus the POSOM sucked in bed and she bailed on him after the weekend sex thing wasn't all that. But at this point who cares..."you deserve good things"
> 
> FYI my mind moves faded away...from a million times a day to once a day ,to once a week...but they will fade so start fighting them off.
> 
> You have to fight off that crap that goes on in your head..replace it with positive thinking.. you have to fight your own mind for a while but it will fade. in time you will meet a new chick and then the mind movies will really fade.



Thanks, I will definitely try that. I will try anything at this point.


----------



## SF-FAN

You are all right. She suspects this time I am taking action and she is scared though it hasn't hit her in the face yet. As far as the children goes, unless you've been in this type of relationship, you really don't understand. I married her and her kids from the previous where 1 and 3 so I am all they know. Their fathers are dead beats and have never been in the picture. It's been almost 9 years, I hate her but I don't hate them. I will not be financially responsible for them but as a good human being that is their father, in good conscience, I can't tell them see you later it's been a good 8+ years. Their mother deserves all the bad things I can think of but they don't.

It's really hard.


----------



## bandit.45

Your kid is your only problem.

Your WW knew she was gambling her kids lives when she cheated. I would imagine she has hopped from man to man to man all her adult life. You just happened to have your sucker hat on the day you agreed to shack up with her. 

You know what she is. Ditch her and find a woman with some morals who can be a good step-mom to your kid.


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> You are all right. She suspects this time I am taking action and she is scared though it hasn't hit her in the face yet. As far as the children goes, unless you've been in this type of relationship, you really don't understand. I married her and her kids from the previous where 1 and 3 so I am all they know. Their fathers are dead beats and have never been in the picture. It's been almost 9 years, I hate her but I don't hate them. I will not be financially responsible for them but as a good human being that is their father, in good conscience, I can't tell them see you later it's been a good 8+ years. Their mother deserves all the bad things I can think of but they don't.
> 
> It's really hard.


It's tough but unless you adopted them, you really don't have a say in whether you can see them or not.
It will suk for them but this is on their mother.
It is sad.
Now you have to start taking care of you.


----------



## SF-FAN

tom67 said:


> It's tough but unless you adopted them, you really don't have a say in whether you can see them or not.
> It will suk for them but this is on their mother.
> It is sad.
> Now you have to start taking care of you.


Oh I know I won't have a say if I see them or not so it is all on her, my thing is that being the absent mother she is, she will likely let them spend time with me so she can have alone time to ***** around. I am not the type of person to say no, sorry, you're not my biological children to them but to her I have no problem telling to f*ck off! On top of that, my bio son and my step-son are inseparable. It will definitely have an affect on how much time my son wants to spend with me if his step-brother is not around.


----------



## SF-FAN

Another thing I need advice with is exposing them at work. I have to be anonymous about it because we are still in a pre-D period and I despite her being the *****, she will still have her rights and can attempt to make me pay so I don't want to make her directly angry at me. What is the best way to do it? I can't talk to her boss because he's a douche and will rug sweep it himself. Any ideas?


----------



## bandit.45

If you get her fired you will have to pay more alimony.

Why the fvck would you want that?

Leave it alone. don't expose to her workplace. Keep her employed until at least after the D, but even then if you exposed and she got fired she could take you back to court to up the alimony amount. 

Just let them be. Only 3% of relationships that start out as affairs ever make it for the long term. They will consume each other, throw each other away and move on to others like themselves. Be done with her and get on with your life.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> If you get her fired you will have to pay more alimony.
> 
> Why the fvck would you want that?
> 
> Leave it alone. don't expose to her workplace. Keep her employed until at least after the D, but even then if you exposed and she got fired she could take you back to court to up the alimony amount.
> 
> Just let them be. Only 3% of relationships that start out as affairs ever make it for the long term. They will consume each other, throw each other away and move on to others like themselves. Be done with her and get on with your life.


I get the alimony thing but I thought the best thing to do is to expose?


----------



## TOMTEFAR

SF-FAN said:


> I get the alimony thing but I thought the best thing to do is to expose?


It's the best thing to do if you want to R. If you are going to D just expose to family and friends. You want her to keep her job so you don't have to pay alimony.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> I get the alimony thing but I thought the best thing to do is to expose?


Expose to her family and yours and the OM's wife (if he has one). That's all you need to do. 

You need to get out of this divorce with the best possible financial outcome for yourself that you can. If you lived in a community property state with no mandatory alimony, then I would say nuke them at their workplace. But not in goofy California.


----------



## vellocet

bandit.45 said:


> If you get her fired you will have to pay more alimony.


"More" alimony? If she has a job, he shouldn't have to pay any alimony. Hell, even if she doesn't he shouldn't have to unless he is super rich.

I'd find a lawyer that will fight alimony tooth and nail. My X went for it, my attorney stood his ground and got it taken off the table. I think they were hoping I'd negotiate something in exchange, like more of my retirement. Nope. My attorney basically told them to go F themselves on every demand that wasn't 1/2 of the marital assets.


----------



## bandit.45

vellocet said:


> "More" alimony? If she has a job, he shouldn't have to pay any alimony. Hell, even if she doesn't he shouldn't have to unless he is super rich.
> 
> I'd find a lawyer that will fight alimony tooth and nail. My X went for it, my attorney stood his ground and got it taken off the table. I think they were hoping I'd negotiate something in exchange, like more of my retirement. Nope. My attorney basically told them to go F themselves on every demand that wasn't 1/2 of the marital assets.


He has to pay her up to half of what their combined income is at the time of the D agreement. So say they make a combined $200,000 with him making $120k and her making $80k... 

Well then he would have to pay her $20k a year for 5 years or so if they were married less than seven years. If they were married over seven years then he pays her for life....I think. Someone out there who knows Cali law better than I do should chime in.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> He has to pay her up to half of what their combined income is at the time of the D agreement. So say they make a combined $200,000 with him making $120k and her making $80k...
> 
> Well then he would have to pay her $20k a year for 5 years or so if they were married less than seven years. If they were married over seven years then he pays her for life....I think. Someone out there who knows Cali law better than I do should chime in.


I don't make anywhere near 200k (maybe closer to 1/4 of that, maybe) and she makes all of possibly 5k. We have no assets to speak of other than furniture and our own vehicles. I will talk to my attorney about it and see what he says.


----------



## vellocet

SF-FAN said:


> I don't make anywhere near 200k (maybe closer to 1/4 of that, maybe) and she makes all of possibly 5k. We have no assets to speak of other than furniture and our own vehicles. I will talk to my attorney about it and see what he says.


Tell him to move mountains to avoid having to pay that b!tch alimony. She doesn't deserve it and shouldn't get it. With the exception of the super rich, alimony is ALMOST a thing of the past. I think you can avoid it, make sure your attorney knows you are adamant. If he/she has to play dirty, then set them loose on your stbX. Get a bulldog and tell him/her to do what they have to do.


----------



## ThePheonix

SF-FAN said:


> I get the alimony thing but I thought the best thing to do is to expose?


No Dawg, the best thing to do is cover your own azz. The exposure thing is nothing short of revenge, which is fine; as long as it doesn't come at a cost that exceeds its value. Alimony/spousal support for many months greatly exceeds to cost once you get of the "being PO'd" and realize that getting rid of her is the best thing that's happened. 
It's like a buddy of mine said, "now that Im rid of that harpy, I'd like to shake the hand of the guy who stole her"


----------



## Racer

bandit.45 said:


> Expose to her family and yours and the OM's wife (if he has one). That's all you need to do.
> 
> You need to get out of this divorce with the best possible financial outcome for yourself that you can. If you lived in a community property state with no mandatory alimony, then I would say nuke them at their workplace. But not in goofy California.


That's my advice too. You expose to her emotional support network... the ones whom she might be talking to so they have the other side of the story she probably hasn't told them.

Since you are divorcing, don't mess with her job.

Also, if you are sure you are divorcing, sometimes using the fog and fear of exposure can get you a good settlement with them thinking this won't see the light and make them look bad. So you suck it up for a few months to speed the process along with a stbx that will sign about anything to save her reputation.


----------



## SF-FAN

ThePheonix said:


> No Dawg, the best thing to do is cover your own azz. The exposure thing is nothing short of revenge, which is fine; as long as it doesn't come at a cost that exceeds its value. Alimony/spousal support for many months greatly exceeds to cost once you get of the "being PO'd" and realize that getting rid of her is the best thing that's happened.
> It's like a buddy of mine said, "*now that Im rid of that harpy, I'd like to shake the hand of the guy who stole her*"


I have that thought on my upswing moments too. Others, the pain is too much but it's a rollercoaster right?


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> I don't make anywhere near 200k (maybe closer to 1/4 of that, maybe) and she makes all of possibly 5k. We have no assets to speak of other than furniture and our own vehicles. I will talk to my attorney about it and see what he says.


Okay.. do the math. 

Right now, together, you make $55k a year. So split that and you get $22.5k each. That means you will be paying her $17,500 a year to bring her up to the 50% of your combined incomes. 

Let that sink in.


----------



## bandit.45

She only makes $5k a year? Holy cow. I spend that much a year on coffee.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Okay.. do the math.
> 
> Right now, together, you make $55k a year. So split that and you get $22.5k each. That means you will be paying her $17,500 a year to bring her up to the 50% of your combined incomes.
> 
> Let that sink in.


Most guys usually try to reach a settlement rather than pay alimony because God forbid you lose your job in this economy or get a lower paying one you would still have to pay the original amount.
Try doing that if at all possible.
California from what I have read on other threads here is pretty tough on the bread winners.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> She only makes $5k a year? Holy cow. I spend that much a year on coffee.


Fulltime student, partime job. She does get financial aid (a good amount) so not sure if that gets taken into consideration. All questions I am going to ask my lawyer.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Fulltime student, partime job. She does get financial aid (a good amount) so not sure if that gets taken into consideration. All questions I am going to ask my lawyer.


A deadbeat who siphons off men and the system is what she is. Toss her...


----------



## badmemory

The bottom line, since you're divorcing; is don't expose them at work without talking to a lawyer about the financial consequences to you.

If it were me, and I didn't have to worry about alimony, I'd wait until after the D, and look into going after the POSOM's job. I'd focus on him. If your wife loses her job in the process, that's on her.


----------



## SF-FAN

badmemory said:


> The bottom line, since you're divorcing; is don't expose them at work without talking to a lawyer about the financial consequences to you.
> 
> *If it were me, and I didn't have to worry about alimony, I'd wait until after the D, and look into going after the POSOM's job. I'd focus on him. If your wife loses her job in the process, that's on her*.


After getting the advice, I am just going to wait on nuking them at work, shoot it may come out without my doing. Getting him fired will probably not happen. The owner is a douche with no morals and the OM is like the 2nd in command and pretty does what he wants. My WW would leave if the exposure was too much to handle and she felt so uncomfortable she couldn't take it anymore.

My in-laws did say that he will NEVER be welcome anywhere near their family so as far as a future, he doesn't stand a chance of being part of their family. She wouldn't be able to handle that. I know, I know, who gives a sh*t but it's just things that come across my mind at 2 am when I can't sleep.


----------



## joe kidd

SF-FAN said:


> After getting the advice, I am just going to wait on nuking them at work, shoot it may come out without my doing. Getting him fired will probably not happen. The owner is a douche with no morals and the OM is like the 2nd in command and pretty does what he wants. My WW would leave if the exposure was too much to handle and she felt so uncomfortable she couldn't take it anymore.
> 
> My in-laws did say that he will NEVER be welcome anywhere near their family so as far as a future, he doesn't stand a chance of being part of their family. She wouldn't be able to handle that. I know, I know, who gives a sh*t but it's just things that come across my mind at 2 am when I can't sleep.


We take what victories we can. You are handling this well. I, in contrast, was determined to set the world on fire and stumble drunkenly through the ashes. Best of luck.


----------



## happyman64

joe kidd said:


> We take what victories we can. You are handling this well. I, in contrast, was determined to set the world on fire and stumble drunkenly through the ashes. Best of luck.


Joe

You are much too humble with the "setting the world on fire" comment.



HM


----------



## the guy

SF-FAN said:


> After getting the advice, I am just going to wait on nuking them at work, shoot it may come out without my doing. Getting him fired will probably not happen. The owner is a douche with no morals and the OM is like the 2nd in command and pretty does what he wants. My WW would leave if the exposure was too much to handle and she felt so uncomfortable she couldn't take it anymore.
> 
> My in-laws did say that he will NEVER be welcome anywhere near their family so as far as a future, he doesn't stand a chance of being part of their family. She wouldn't be able to handle that. I know, I know, who gives a sh*t but it's just things that come across my mind at 2 am when I can't sleep.


Good call 
Exposing the affair is pointless and besides everybody at work most likely already knows.
From the sound of it there isn't really any strong HR and in that kind of work people are screwing around with and on each other.

Whats funny is your wife is clueless and she already has a reputation they (coworkers) just don't talk about it in front of her. The OM most likely is bragging to all the other guys and the other girls are gossiping about her being married and going out with the cook.


----------



## SF-FAN

the guy said:


> Good call
> Exposing the affair is pointless and besides everybody at work most likely already knows.
> From the sound of it there isn't really any strong HR and in that kind of work people are screwing around with and on each other.
> 
> Whats funny is your wife is clueless and she already has a reputation they (coworkers) just don't talk about it in front of her. The OM most likely is bragging to all the other guys and the other girls are gossiping about her being married and going out with the cook.


You hit it right on the head because she has told me all people do is talk sh*t about eachother. The girl that referred her for the job now hates her guts and according to my WW, other girls don't really care for her either. That place is a sespool (sp) of people that aren't worth a sh*t.


----------



## bandit.45

I forsee in five years she's going to be one of those bloated 300 pound aircraft carriers you see late on a Sunday night in WalMart, breezing down through the isle like a leviathan with a shopping cart full of soft drinks and diapers, trailing five or six screaming snot-nosed kids, all of mixed races from different dads, hanging off of her like she's a Conestoga wagon...


----------



## Lefacade

SF-FAN said:


> It is almost like I feel bad for her. She is mentally unstable and I feel bad for her. I also do feel a bit of guilt for planning to move forward and leaving her behind to deal with her own rent, car payments, etc. because she only has a part time job. Why do I feel bad and guilty???


Because you're a decent human being and she isn't. When you feel bad like that think of what she did and how your feelings didn't even matter, only her happiness.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> I forsee in five years she's going to be one of those bloated 300 pound aircraft carriers you see late on a Sunday night in WalMart, breezing down through the isle like a leviathan with a shopping cart full of soft drinks and diapers, trailing five or six screaming snot-nosed kids, all of mixed races from different dads, hanging off of her like she's a Conestoga wagon...


Yes and no. She can't have anymore kids thankfully she won't be having anymore kids. She is dead set on graduating from college and is almost done so while she is not guaranteed making tons of money, she will have an education. As far as bloated and at walmart, she doesn't eat because she's super vain and is afraid to gain an ounce and refuses to set foot in Walmart because she is too good. 

No, I am hoping she just doesn't get the high paying job she things she will, the kids don't want anything to do with her when they are of age to leave and her image as a serial cheater ruins any possibility of her having a meaningful relationship.


----------



## bandit.45

I should go back and read again.

But dude... you're not thinking this through...You should hope she gets the high paying job...

That means less alimony for you to pay... and...

If she ends up making more than you, SHE PAYS YOU ALIMONY!!!


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> I should go back and read again.
> 
> But dude... you're not thinking this through...You should hope she gets the high paying job...
> 
> That means less alimony for you to pay... and...
> 
> If she ends up making more than you, SHE PAYS YOU ALIMONY!!!


She won't be graduating for about a year, the D will be long over before then. Are you saying our income in the future is also a determining factor in me or her having to pay anything?

Man, so many questions to ask the attorney.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> I should go back and read again.
> 
> But dude... you're not thinking this through...You should hope she gets the high paying job...
> 
> That means less alimony for you to pay... and...
> 
> If she ends up making more than you, SHE PAYS YOU ALIMONY!!!


Bandit has a point.
If she is graduating soon you may want to wait a little although like Eric said the backlog in Cali it could be earliest 7 months before the first court date.
PM Eric415 he will tell you.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> She won't be graduating for about a year, the D will be long over before then. Are you saying our income in the future is also a determining factor in me or her having to pay anything?
> 
> Man, so many questions to ask the attorney.


The court splits the combined incomes. So if she makes more than you...she pays you up to the 50% mark. 

You could actually stand to make a little extra bread by waiting for her to get that job. Just don't let on that is what you are doing.


----------



## the guy

SF-FAN said:


> You hit it right on the head because she has told me all people do is talk sh*t about eachother. The girl that referred her for the job now hates her guts and according to my WW, other girls don't really care for her either. That place is a sespool (sp) of people that aren't worth a sh*t.


I'm curious if it would be worth contacting this ex friend and asking her what went wrong with the friendship. Explain to her that you know about the affair between the cook and your old lady and if that had anything to do with the break up of the friendship?

Then ask her for her support for your marriageand family and if their is any thing she would like to add that you are not aware off you would keep her up most confidence.

I'm thinking since there is no HR to report to and you don't want your old lady to lose her job during the divorce...this might be the next best thing to making the affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable to continue or restart.

You know what I mean... maybe you could gain some ground by contacting this coworker.


----------



## Chaparral

Does any one know what effect it would have on alimony/custody if SF talked her into moving out and leaving the kids, then delay the divorce for a long time. Could being able to claim abandonmet help his cause? Too evil?


----------



## SF-FAN

the guy said:


> I'm curious if it would be worth contacting this ex friend and asking her what went wrong with the friendship. Explain to her that you know about the affair between the cook and your old lady and if that had anything to do with the break up of the friendship?
> 
> Then ask her for her support for your marriageand family and if their is any thing she would like to add that you are not aware off you would keep her up most confidence.
> 
> I'm thinking since there is no HR to report to and you don't want your old lady to lose her job during the divorce...this might be the next best thing to making the affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable to continue or restart.
> 
> You know what I mean... maybe you could gain some ground by contacting this coworker.


I was thinking of doing that but if my WW knew I contacted the ex friend and still current co-worker, she'd be extremely angry and probably screw me in the D. I know that if I tell her ex friend about the A, her hatred for my WW would cause her to blab at work. I may find some useful information by talking to her but I'm trying to figure out how.


----------



## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> Does any one know what effect it would have on alimony/custody if SF talked her into moving out and leaving the kids, then delay the divorce for a long time. Could being able to claim abandonmet help his cause? Too evil?


She wouldn't do that. Especially since 2 are not my bio. She continues to claim that she is a great mother despite what she did.


----------



## weightlifter

OP. Read poster whyeme. He was where you are mentally. Wanted to drive into on august 20... If luck holds... He is getting his lance waxed as i type for the first time in a while and has made a lot of comeback. My point is picture it and believe.

Save your evidence offsite and in three places!!!


----------



## harrybrown

How can she think she is a great mother, when she is cheating with the cook? 

She is so selfish, and does not think about her kids, especially while she is with the cook.


----------



## the guy

SF-FAN said:


> I was thinking of doing that but if my WW knew I contacted the ex friend and still current co-worker, she'd be extremely angry and probably screw me in the D. I know that if I tell her ex friend about the A, her hatred for my WW would cause her to blab at work. I may find some useful information by talking to her but I'm trying to figure out how.


Figuring all this crap out can be a pain, but what you do have is factual evidence and you are no longer in the dark...now it just a matter of time to work a plan that will work best for you.

Me and all the other fine folks her in this community can throw out all kinds of ideas...in the end its up to you to take the emotional bull crap out and replace it with the business side of getting out of a deceitful relationship and getting out on top the best you can.

Since the women you married is no longer around its time to look at all this a a business and the best way come out ahead.

If preventing pissing off the other side will get you a few steps ahead then stay the course. On the other side of the coin if pissing her off has no effect on the division of assets...well then!

I mean is a judge going to give you less custody for confiding with your old ladies ex friend?
I thinking you already spoiled her fun and have made her life hell by no longer putting up with her crap......the way i see it she is going to be pissed off no matter what.

I do agree that its best to get some temporary court orders in place before stiring the pot like custody and division of asest and debt but after that who cares what you do that pisses her off?


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> I've called her siblings and mom but they didn't pick up. I'm thinking she might try to beat me to the punch to attempt to justify her actions to them. She may try to make me look like a monster but it won't work, she's tried in the past.
> 
> Get this, last night she did start tearing up a little bit and told me that if I truly cared about saving our marriage I should have immediately hugged her when she got home, told her I hated her for what she did but love her enough to work through it. That I wasn't saving our marriage for her reputation but because I truly wanted to and truly love her.:scratchhead:


I understand the pain you feel. But you are NOT doing the 180. You are talking to her, giving her chance after chance to rip you up some more. That just make things WORSE.

If you are ever to save your marriage, you have to hold firm. She has to come to you. You can't beg her back. You've been told this many times.

What is good is that you see your way clear to a divorce. It will hurt like hell. But unless she changes on her own you can't make her reconcile. So face it. The pain is coming.

But it will also go. You will emerge from the flames a tougher, stronger man.


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> As I mentioned before, DDay she was bawling and remorseful beyond belief. Funny how a day later she is acting like Ms. Independent and not as remorseful.


Because you shocked the heck out of her by standing up to her and not folding and crying. By the next day she'd figured that you'd not carry through.


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> Oh I'm sure but she is not the one that was scorned. She says that she'll never keep me from the kids and I do believe that because her family would not allow it. Plus she has to have a sitter because of work and school. She has no choice. She doesn't want to go to court because she doesn't want the truth to come out more than it has so she is pretty willing to let me do as I please right now.


I'm sure her family understands how she is. But they are still HER family and in the end they will be on her side. I'm not saying that they will blame you, but just as you'd be there for your kids, they will be there for her. Be prepared for this.

If in fact she breaks off with her family, why should she care what comes out? In any case be prepared for an awful battle over the divorce.


----------



## the guy

sidney2718 said:


> You will emerge from the flames a tougher, stronger man.


It takes fire to make steel!


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> If you recall from a previous post, the WW and her family have not talked for several weeks because of her behavior (being gone all the time, leaving the kids with me most of the time, etc.) Well he mom just called me to let me know, the WW sent her a text to apologize and to say she wants to talk.
> 
> Well I told my mother-in-law about the affair and she wasn't shocked because they suspected as much but she was disgusted that her daughter could do that. She was pretty angry so we'll see how their talk goes.
> 
> On the flip side, while I want her family to basically disown her, I know that won't happen because it just doesn't. Her family will be mad, give her an ear full but they will move on. It kills me that there are no real consequences for cheaters. The spouses that are cheated on are more often than not the ones left with the real pain. Somehow exposing doesn't feel as good as I thought it would.


There are real consequences for her. Check out some of the other threads here. She's not begun to hit rock bottom yet. After the divorce what does she expect to do for money? Where will she live? Will she have any friends? You think you have troubles now. Wait until it becomes clear to her what she's given up.

Don't worry abut the Kharma bus. It may be slow, but it is coming.


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> Yup!! I am the third. She did a procedure after we had our son so she can't have anymore kids which I think is a big blessing. Otherwise I'm sure the 4th father would be on his way soon.


I understand that you are close to all the kids, but legally, who is responsible for the two who are not yours? Did you adopt them? This is important because the court will probably not make you pay child support for them.

I suspect that you love them and do not want to hurt them. I agree with that. I'm just pointing out how bad her position is.


----------



## the guy

I may wrong but from this thread I think Mrs. SF-FAN is one not to face consequences. Maybe got the wrong thread but this chick could ...has consequences all around her yet it is someone elses fault.

I sense she could be homeless, penniless and in bad health and in the end it is "them not me"!!

I mean if having 3 different baby daddies isn't a consequence I didn't know what is, but it was the men in her life that got her prego...right?


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> You are all right. She suspects this time I am taking action and she is scared though it hasn't hit her in the face yet. As far as the children goes, unless you've been in this type of relationship, you really don't understand. I married her and her kids from the previous where 1 and 3 so I am all they know. Their fathers are dead beats and have never been in the picture. It's been almost 9 years, I hate her but I don't hate them. I will not be financially responsible for them but as a good human being that is their father, in good conscience, I can't tell them see you later it's been a good 8+ years. Their mother deserves all the bad things I can think of but they don't.
> 
> It's really hard.


Be careful with this. She may try to deny you visitation rights to the two kids that are not yours just to punish you. This is a MUST DISCUSS WITH YOUR LAWYER situation.


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> Another thing I need advice with is exposing them at work. I have to be anonymous about it because we are still in a pre-D period and I despite her being the *****, she will still have her rights and can attempt to make me pay so I don't want to make her directly angry at me. What is the best way to do it? I can't talk to her boss because he's a douche and will rug sweep it himself. Any ideas?


I really don't think you want her losing her job prior to the divorce. You gain little by exposing them at work and could lose a ton of money. Be careful!


----------



## the guy

sidney2718 said:


> I really don't think you want her losing her job prior to the divorce. You gain little by exposing them at work and could lose a ton of money. Be careful!



He is
OP changed his thinking on this point.
I think Bandit helped him take a second look at exposing at work.


----------



## sidney2718

bandit.45 said:


> The court splits the combined incomes. So if she makes more than you...she pays you up to the 50% mark.
> 
> You could actually stand to make a little extra bread by waiting for her to get that job. Just don't let on that is what you are doing.


I seem to be posting too much here tonight. But one more won't hurt too much (I hope.) My opinion is do NOT delay the divorce because she might get a high-paying job. Too many things might go wrong with you ending up screwed.

It may be that the amount you may have to pay in the future for child support can be modified by the court if she gets a decent job. I'd check with your lawyer.

And now all can breath a sigh of relief. Old Sidney is signing off for the evening.


----------



## SF-FAN

the guy said:


> I may wrong but from this thread I think Mrs. SF-FAN is one not to face consequences. Maybe got the wrong thread but this chick could ...has consequences all around her yet it is someone elses fault.
> 
> I sense she could be homeless, penniless and in bad health and in the end it is "them not me"!!
> 
> I mean if having 3 different baby daddies isn't a consequence I didn't know what is, but it was the men in her life that got her prego...right?


You're right, no matter what happens nothing will ever be her fault. She may say she knows she messed up but in reality it's all lip service. When people hit her in the face with what she is doing wrong, she can't take it. She either brakes down crying to get sympathy or walks out. No one, not me or her family will ever get her to change. She is the only one. I have a feeling she will realize what she is losing, I just don't know when.


----------



## ThePheonix

One things that prevalent are guys wondering when their former beloved is going to realize what a mistake they made, lean their lesson, etc. Somebody tell me why that's not a waste of time or at best, wishful thinking.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SF-FAN said:


> You're right, no matter what happens nothing will ever be her fault. She may say she knows she messed up but in reality it's all lip service. When people hit her in the face with what she is doing wrong, she can't take it. She either brakes down crying to get sympathy or walks out. No one, not me or her family will ever get her to change. She is the only one. *I have a feeling she will realize what she is losing, I just don't know when.*


I wouldn't be so sure of this. I think that your stbxw is one of those people that will always have the next-in-line cued up before she is ready to leave the current guy. She won't give herself a chance to miss anything, as there's something(one) new in it's(your) former place.

And if she ever tells you down the line that she misses you, it'll more than likely only be because there's not a current, or new/next man right then. But don't worry, there will be soon.

I know how you feel. I had a hard time letting go when it was my turn at this. Your stbxw has a pattern of cycling through relationship after relationship. It's not your fault and there isn't anything that you can do to fix this. You have to worry about and concentrate on YOU now. 

In stead of thinking how life with out your cheating stbxw is going to be, start wondering how life might be with a woman that's suited to be with loves and wants you for the right reasons. Not because you were the next-in-line...


----------



## jim123

SF,

You will never become the man you are while you are with her. She will always bring you down. She will always destroy your confidence.

You are going to law school. You need to become an advocate to be a great attorney. Start with yourself.


You need to get on with your life.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Three (3) strikes and you are out!!



> 1	I'm so deep into being co-dependent
> 
> 2	…woman will never be wife material or settle down. She doesn't know how…”
> 
> 3	No one, not me or her family will ever get her to change


You are out of the game of marriage right now! *Get yourself ready for you to have a different life and more self respect.*



*Keep building yourself up WITHOUT involving her in anay way.* I know that you want her to beg you for forgiveness, tell you how much she has lost by betraying you, telling you that she loves you more than anything, and everything else including kissing your arse. Spending time with those things will delay you getting better. Those things will probably be a lie coming from her now that she is feeling a bit of consequences. Even if she is telling you in all sincerity, she is way too weak to really love you.


She has a lot of baggage; she is above going into Wal-Mart she is too good for Wal-Mart yet she will drop her panties and mount some man that has never taken care of her children or supported her! She may have been a good woman at one time but right now she is spoiled goods.



SF-Fan
*You are at a crossroad. You are either going to diligently work at NOT being so co-dependent or you are going to cave in and compromise because you cannot take the pain.* Sorry my friend, life in the jungle can be very cruel at times and nothing we do or you can change that. What you can do is choose which you are going to be; are you going to be the lion or are you going to be Bambie?
I think you know which will survive and which one will be eaten alive.


----------



## SF-FAN

Alright so some events happened this weekend. She found a place and is basically gone. However, she said she completely acknowledges what she did was wrong and is extremely sorry and though she can't go back and change things, she is willing to make the future better.

Though we are living apart, she wants to go to MC and said she is going to continue to go to IC and wants to really try hard to get our marriage back. 

There's only one reason I am willing to try this and it is so I can say I exhausted every possibility. If it doesn't work, we are already living apart and I can move on knowing I tried everything. I know I am going to get people telling me I am stupid, naive, etc., but I would be doing this more for me than her.


----------



## SF-FAN

BTW, she is looking for another job also and is being transparent with everything. And the D is still being filed. I honestly feel I have nothing more to lose.


----------



## bfree

SF-FAN said:


> Alright so some events happened this weekend. She found a place and is basically gone. However, she said she completely acknowledges what she did was wrong and is extremely sorry and though she can't go back and change things, she is willing to make the future better.
> 
> Though we are living apart, she wants to go to MC and said she is going to continue to go to IC and wants to really try hard to get our marriage back.
> 
> There's only one reason I am willing to try this and it is so I can say I exhausted every possibility. If it doesn't work, we are already living apart and I can move on knowing I tried everything. I know I am going to get people telling me I am stupid, naive, etc., but I would be doing this more for me than her.


Did you ask her what changed her attitude?


----------



## Squeakr

If the A isn't over, then she just moved out to stop you and everyone else from monitoring her moves. She now has a free reign to do what she wants and in her conscience it is clear, since she is now "officially" separated in her mind and able to pursue what makes her happy.


----------



## bfree

Squeakr said:


> If the A isn't over, then she just moved out to stop you and everyone else from monitoring her moves. She now has a free reign to do what she wants and in her conscience it is clear, since she is now "officially" separated in her mind and able to pursue what makes her happy.


Good point. If she is still involved with her AP then MC is useless.


----------



## badmemory

SF-FAN said:


> Alright so some events happened this weekend. She found a place and is basically gone. However, she said she completely acknowledges what she did was wrong and is extremely sorry and though she can't go back and change things, she is willing to make the future better.
> 
> Though we are living apart, she wants to go to MC and said she is going to continue to go to IC and wants to really try hard to get our marriage back.
> 
> There's only one reason I am willing to try this and it is so I can say I exhausted every possibility. If it doesn't work, we are already living apart and I can move on knowing I tried everything. I know I am going to get people telling me I am stupid, naive, etc., but I would be doing this more for me than her.


I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't consider R with her, even if I personally think otherwise.

But I will at least suggest that you let her simmer a while longer before taking her off the stove - so to speak. Give her some more time away from you to think about losing her husband - and more importantly for you to think about if this is best for you.


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> If the A isn't over, then she just moved out to stop you and everyone else from monitoring her moves. She now has a free reign to do what she wants and in her conscience it is clear, since she is now "officially" separated in her mind and able to pursue what makes her happy.


She said she just realized that what she did was terribly wrong and that I wasn't the issue. I thought about her having her cake and eating it too but I can't know what she's doing 24/7, she agreed to be completely transparent and honest, which she doesn't have to do especially living apart. I also told her that if she was still in the A, then there is no point and D is the best thing. She said the A was no more and that's why she was looking for a new job, to cut off all ties. She also said she wants to remain married though we will be living separately and is not looking to date.

She has free reign to date anyone, including the POSOM so I figure if that's what she truly wanted, why bother with MC and possible R? She brought it up, not me. That's why I am willing to give it a last shot.


----------



## SF-FAN

badmemory said:


> I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't consider R with her, even if I personally think otherwise.
> 
> But I will at least suggest that you let her simmer a while longer before taking her off the stove - so to speak. Give her some more time away from you to think about losing her husband - and more importantly for you to think about if this is best for you.


I like that idea and may do that.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> She has free reign to date anyone, including the POSOM so I figure if that's what she truly wanted, why bother with MC and possible R? She brought it up, not me. That's why I am willing to give it a last shot.


This is so true and has happened many times on here, where the WS says they are done, being transparent, and wanting MC and R, then we find out that it has gone underground. I hope for your sake she is telling the truth, but me thinks she is not. She has played you several times before and never had anything bad happen from it, so what has changed this time to make this chance different? I would guess nothing. She is just in CYA mode and doing what she thinks you want and need to stop watching her. I bet she hopes that by leaving she is leveraging her position and your co-dependency will kick in. Did she just leave or take the kids with her? If she just left that says loads to me (especially since only one child is truly yours and your responsibility).


----------



## Acabado

Skip the MC, it's all on her.
Demand. Make demands, draw the law, make known your dealbreakers, which if she fails to follow you won't stop the divorce.

She must send a NC letter .
She must agree to complete transparence in comunication devices and whereabouts.
She must give a complete, full disclosure of all her transgressions. Not only the latest one, not the porevious one you caught her with, there's way more (I'd even ask for a complete inventary of her relationships, since she started dating as an adolescent). I'd demand a polygraph after that to abck up her disclosure.
Getting rid of tainted personal items, toxic friends.
STD tets.
Intensive IC.

Tell her you expect she's proactive into learning how to fix this kind of mess, by reading books, online support, etc on the subject so she can't pretend there's no specific advice outhere. Thousands of women found themselves in this situation.

Have random check ups to see her personal progress at IC. Assumming she complies with the bare minimum requerements evaluate her once in a while, her remorse, her commitment.

She has a huge story of poor, selfish decisions, she can't take ownership of them, she run, shift the blame, have irrealistic expectations, double standars, she's immature, has no idea of personal boundaires...

Tell her this is more than the marriage but deciding who the hell she is becasue for now she's doing a very poor job.

I can't understand you are not willing to pull the trigger for now but man, i see no hope with this woman, even her family can see through her. They have this mindset of... "here we go, she screwed up once again".


----------



## tom67

She also said she wants to remain married though we will be living separately and is not looking to date.

She has the [email protected] to tell you that?
Why be married then? I guess to finance her.
You said you are going to see a lawyer right?


----------



## BWBill

_She has free reign to date anyone, including the POSOM so I figure if that's what she truly wanted, why bother with MC and possible R? She brought it up, not me. That's why I am willing to give it a last shot._

She wants to keep you around in case she doesn't find anything better.


----------



## SF-FAN

tom67 said:


> She also said she wants to remain married though we will be living separately and is not looking to date.
> 
> She has the [email protected] to tell you that?
> Why be married then? I guess to finance her.
> You said you are going to see a lawyer right?


Nope, I will not be financing anything. Her bills are her bills and my bills are my bills. She doesn't even want child support for my son. She wants nothing from me. 

At this point there is no reason for her to take the A underground, we're not living together. She can do as she pleases. She is the one that is saying she doesn't want to date anyone else and wants to get back the marriage we once had. So to me that says something that she has her 100% freedom to do what she wants but is not taking it.


----------



## happyman64

SF

If you still love her then go for it.

But verify everything. Actions speak louder than words.

Then verify, verify, verify.

And if she truly is remorseful and wants to be married to you she will be open as any book.

So keep your eyes and ears open.

HM


----------



## SF-FAN

BWBill said:


> _She has free reign to date anyone, including the POSOM so I figure if that's what she truly wanted, why bother with MC and possible R? She brought it up, not me. That's why I am willing to give it a last shot._
> 
> She wants to keep you around in case she doesn't find anything better.


Yeah I thought of that too but the first thing I told her was that if I find out even the most miniscule information about her and POSOM or any other guy, the D is getting completed and MC and R are completely dead. She agreed. Like I said, this may or may not work but if it doesn't, I will move on knowing I did ALL I could.


----------



## SF-FAN

happyman64 said:


> SF
> 
> If you still love her then go for it.
> 
> But verify everything. Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> Then verify, verify, verify.
> 
> And if she truly is remorseful and wants to be married to you she will be open as any book.
> 
> So keep your eyes and ears open.
> 
> HM


She knows she is not trusted and acknowledges it is going to take A LOT for even a little trust to be earned. Her family hates what is happening all because of her and are also going to have their ears and eyes open. If they see or hear anything about her with another guy, I will be the first to know, her mom and sister already told me.


----------



## bfree

If what she is telling you is the truth then I would ask her to let you know when she has left that job and then you might consider MC. If she is still working with him then she isn't NC and you won't make any headway in MC anyway.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Nope, I will not be financing anything. Her bills are her bills and my bills are my bills. She doesn't even want child support for my son. She wants nothing from me.
> 
> At this point there is no reason for her to take the A underground, we're not living together. She can do as she pleases. She is the one that is saying she doesn't want to date anyone else and wants to get back the marriage we once had. So to me that says something that she has her 100% freedom to do what she wants but is not taking it.


All a good talk and lip service (and exactly what you are wanting to hear), but you are still married and therefor she is legally open to half of everything you have, and child support. She says she doesn't want it now, and that appeases you, but 6 months down the road when things are tight, she can get whatever she wants or needs with the help of a lawyer (unless a legal separation is in affect that says each are responsible for their own, and even then it can get overwritten as well). You say you are in law school and work for a lawyer, so you should already know all this. Stop listening to and believing the lies of a cheater, as once caught dead to rights she is telling you everything you want to hear (smells too fishy to me).


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> She knows she is not trusted and acknowledges it is going to take A LOT for even a little trust to be earned. Her family hates what is happening all because of her and are also going to have their ears and eyes open. If they see or hear anything about her with another guy, I will be the first to know, her mom and sister already told me.


All good, but do you think they really will? In your earlier posts you confided in how much they really hated you. Blood is thicker than water and always will be. When they see her happy, healthy, and in charge of herself, they will back her in her decisions no matter how detrimental to you they may be.


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> All a good talk and lip service (and exactly what you are wanting to hear), but you are still married and therefor she is legally open to half of everything you have, and child support. She says she doesn't want it now, and that appeases you, but 6 months down the road when things are tight, she can get whatever she wants or needs with the help of a lawyer (unless a legal separation is in affect that says each are responsible for their own, and even then it can get overwritten as well). You say you are in law school and work for a lawyer, so you should already know all this. Stop listening to and believing the lies of a cheater, as once caught dead to rights she is telling you everything you want to hear (smells too fishy to me).


I'm in law school and work for a lawyer but not a Family Lawyer. Lawyers know the law but not all aspects. I have a lawyer who is filing the D and will meet with him again soon. She is deathly afraid of going to court because her family said they would testify against her for being a bad mother and have the kids taken away from her (where the fathers will get custody). Child support and half of what I have doesn't scare me with her because 1) I don't have anything and 2) I would only have to pay for 1 child and not 3. 

I get she's a liar, a cheater and a manipulator. That is at the forefront of my mind, however, she doesn't have to want R. She can just go off and date her POSOM and live their sick happy fantasy. I can give a sh*t if she lives with remorse for the rest of her life, however, I will not. If there is even a sliver of hope for our marriage to be resurected, I don't want to be the one to wonder about it in the future. Like I said, I feel I don't have much to lose at this point. She is paying for the MC.


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> All good, but do you think they really will? In your earlier posts you confided in how much they really hated you. Blood is thicker than water and always will be. When they see her happy, healthy, and in charge of herself, they will back her in her decisions no matter how detrimental to you they may be.


Her family has never hated me. They absolutely hate her for what she is did and have not been on good terms for a while. I know for a fact that if she continues her behavior of bringing in other men and further damaging the kids, her family will testify against her in court. It's not about me, it's about the kids and they know I am the responsible, stable adult.


----------



## warlock07

SF-FAN said:


> She said she just realized that what she did was terribly wrong and that I wasn't the issue. I thought about her having her cake and eating it too but I can't know what she's doing 24/7, she agreed to be completely transparent and honest, which she doesn't have to do especially living apart. I also told her that if she was still in the A, then there is no point and D is the best thing. She said the A was no more and that's why she was looking for a new job, to cut off all ties. She also said she wants to remain married though we will be living separately and is not looking to date.
> 
> She has free reign to date anyone, including the POSOM so I figure if that's what she truly wanted, why bother with MC and possible R? She brought it up, not me. That's why I am willing to give it a last shot.


I have a bridge to sell you


More seriously,

If she wanted to sleep with other people, she wouldn't have married you.

If she wanted to sleep with other people, she wouldn't have reconciled after getting caught the last time. She would have separated

People in normal relationships don't treat their So's like yours did.

Don't make life decisions based on broken people's logic. 

Do you know of one sane person that has 3 kids with 3 different spouse ? It wasn't a coincidence that she had 3 kids with 3 different guys.


----------



## barbados

What is the living arrangement going to be with the kids ? Is she taking any or all of them with her to her new place, or are you still going to be be the primary custodial parent ?


----------



## SF-FAN

warlock07 said:


> I have a bridge to sell you
> 
> 
> More seriously,
> 
> If she wanted to sleep with other people, she wouldn't have married you.
> 
> If she wanted to sleep with other people, she wouldn't have reconciled after getting caught the last time. She would have separated
> 
> People in normal relationships don't treat their So's like yours did.
> 
> Don't make life decisions based on broken people's logic.
> 
> Do you know of one sane person that has 3 kids with 3 different spouse ? It wasn't a coincidence that she had 3 kids with 3 different guys.


I see your logic, however, if there's a shred of possibility to save a marriage/family I think why not try, especially when I don't have anything more to lose. She will be doing all the work.

I believe some people here are dead set on D no matter what and don't believe cheating spouses can redeem themselves. Now that's probably the case more often than not but I'm sure there are minimal cases where the WS learns her lesson and the marriage thrives and gets stronger. Not saying this is going to happen in my situation, however, like I said if she is truly willing to give it her all (which she doesn't have to at this point because the old marriage is over as we know it) then I will try not for her but for my peace of mind in the future.


----------



## Tobyboy

She knows she's about to lose everything if she goes to court. This is damage control!!! Not about saving the marriage. There never was a marriage!! Save yourself more heartache, you gave it your all already!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ArmyofJuan

If you do decide to R get a post-nup, make sure she knows you will walk at the drop of a hat and she gets nothing.


----------



## SF-FAN

barbados said:


> What is the living arrangement going to be with the kids ? Is she taking any or all of them with her to her new place, or are you still going to be be the primary custodial parent ?


She is taking the kids and says we can split 50/50 visitation. No child support for my son and no financial assistance.


----------



## tom67

Tobyboy said:


> She knows she's about to lose everything if she goes to court. This is damage control!!! Not about saving the marriage. There never was a marriage!! Save yourself more heartache, you gave it your all already!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


SF it is time to end this imo and take care of you and your kid.
She is playing you stop being nice to her please think about it.
:iagree::iagree:


----------



## SF-FAN

Tobyboy said:


> She knows she's about to lose everything if she goes to court. This is damage control!!! Not about saving the marriage. There never was a marriage!! Save yourself more heartache, you gave it your all already!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We're not going to court just yet, if we do, I will be the one with the most to lose. Her family will testify against her BUT there is still a good chance the kids will NOT be taken away from her because though she cheated and leaves them with me for work, school, etc., they will likely not see her as in unfit parent. The courts in this county don't take away parental rights for anything. It's disgusting. The damage has been done, the A was exposed, there's no more damage to control.


----------



## Squeakr

I don't think she can legally "take" the kids to "live" with her 50/50 without a separation and custody agreement. She has just as much right to the kids as you do and can take them for vacations, extended stays etc, but I don't believe she can take them to "live" which is what she is doing. I would get your lawyer involved, because if you agree to this she could turn around and possibly bring an abandonment case, since you "let" this happen (without legal obligation, such as those that leave the house without their legal ducks in a row can be considered abandoning and lose rights to their domicile).

Best check up on this and not take her word for it, because you want her gone, as I would hate to see you lose rights to your kids over this.


----------



## SF-FAN

tom67 said:


> SF it is time to end this imo and take care of you and your kid.
> She is playing you stop being nice to her please think about it.
> :iagree::iagree:


How is she playing me if she is not getting anything from me?? If anything, it will postpone whatever financial support I will have to give her.

Yes I care about her because we've been married for over 8 years, however the love is not there. If she screws up all I have to say is ok done with R, D is going through. Does that sound like I will be losing anything? Not to me.


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> I don't think she can legally "take" the kids to "live" with her 50/50 without a separation and custody agreement. She has just as much right to the kids as you do and can take them for vacations, extended stays etc, but I don't believe she can take them to "live" which is what she is doing. I would get your lawyer involved, because if you agree to this she could turn around and possibly bring an abandonment case, since you "let" this happen (without legal obligation, such as those that leave the house without their legal ducks in a row can be considered abandoning and lose rights to their domicile).
> 
> Best check up on this and not take her word for it, because you want her gone, as I would hate to see you lose rights to your kids over this.


I checked and trust me abandonment doesn't exist in this county. My step son's dad has not paid a penny of child support and has not seen my step son for over 9 years. We took him to court so that I could adopt my step son and the court refused to take away his parental rights. She took the kids, but I take them to school and pick them up, that's not abandonment.


----------



## weightlifter

Just to be clear you realize possibly R and giving free reign to date is a suckers bet right?

She can get laid any time she wants. This is not true for 95% of men.


----------



## SF-FAN

ArmyofJuan said:


> If you do decide to R get a post-nup, make sure she knows you will walk at the drop of a hat and she gets nothing.


Thank you for the positive advise. I will look into a post-nup and I did tell her that if we did attempt to R I will walk at the drop of a hat if she screws up.


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> How is she playing me if she is not getting anything from me?? If anything, it will postpone whatever financial support I will have to give her.
> 
> Yes I care about her because we've been married for over 8 years, however the love is not there. If she screws up all I have to say is ok done with R, D is going through. Does that sound like I will be losing anything? Not to me.


I guess let it play out 8 years is bad for alimony in Ca. anyway.


----------



## tom67

If she doesn't want anything maybe you two can go the mediation route?
Cheaper.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Just to be clear you realize possibly R and giving free reign to date is a suckers bet right?
> 
> She can get laid any time she wants. This is not true for 95% of men.


I don't you guys are understanding. The old marriage is essentially over. I don't expect anything from her anymore. She is the one that wants to R and go to MC. If she goes full force, great, if not I will lose nothing. She can do anything she wants now and not want to R or MC. I made that clear.


----------



## mahike

SF - R is a very rocky road at best and that is living under the same roof. Go ahead and give it a shot you have made up your mind but do not let her treat you like a doormat. 

I am not sure she is really done with the A. Cheaters lie and if they really do not have someone watching them then she will be an easy mark when that POS comes back sniffing around.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> I checked and trust me abandonment doesn't exist in this county. My step son's dad has not paid a penny of child support and has not seen my step son for over 9 years. We took him to court so that I could adopt my step son and the court refused to take away his parental rights. She took the kids, but I take them to school and pick them up, that's not abandonment.


As long as you have done the homework and you feel you are covered that is fine. If I were to do the same, move from my house without a separation and custody agreement in place, within 24 hours to 7 days, depending on the city in my state, I would be legally considered abandoning, no matter if I saw the kids and had involvement, the act of leaving the primary residence is the abandonment issue in my state and lots of others and I would forfeit rights to the kids and house. It is just the way the laws are here.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> I don't you guys are understanding. The old marriage is essentially over. I don't expect anything from her anymore. She is the one that wants to R and go to MC. If she goes full force, great, if not I will lose nothing. She can do anything she wants now and not want to R or MC. I made that clear.


Going to R and MC is not a big deal, it is being faithful while doing such.


----------



## SF-FAN

tom67 said:


> If she doesn't want anything maybe you two can go the mediation route?
> Cheaper.


At first I wanted to take her to court and destroy her image but my attorney said that may make me feel good, but may not bring the best outcome financially. I asked about R and he said that if there was any possibility of R happening, I should explore it because D can get expensive regardless of court or mediation. Unless she waives it, I will have to pay child support.


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> As long as you have done the homework and you feel you are covered that is fine. If I were to do the same, move from my house without a separation and custody agreement in place, within 24 hours to 7 days, depending on the city in my state, I would be legally considered abandoning, no matter if I saw the kids and had involvement, the act of leaving the primary residence is the abandonment issue in my state and lots of others and I would forfeit rights to the kids and house. It is just the way the laws are here.


Not in CA but regardless, she moved, not me.


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> At first I wanted to take her to court and destroy her image but my attorney said that may make me feel good, but may not bring the best outcome financially. I asked about R and he said that if there was any possibility of R happening, I should explore it because D can get expensive regardless of court or mediation. Unless she waives it, I will have to pay child support.


Of course you will pay child support with what she is making now the wildcard is the alimony.
Well talk to an attorney asap now your legal responsibilities and options.


----------



## Foghorn

SF-FAN

I have been watching your thread. I have admired your self-control and your dignity. What you are going through is agonizing for anyone. And you are doing a great job of not going off the deep end.

I understand that she's moved out and further that you know your old marriage is "dead" and that anything going forward is going to be different. I see that you are set on the idea that reconciliation is possible.

I have a different question for you. It stems from the image of an old married couple on a porch, holding hands and enjoying their sunset years together.

Bottom line, what she's done indicates that she's really not a very nice person. Not kind, not self effacing, not loyal, not thoughtful. Maybe this is too Midwestern of me. But do you really want to be married, long term all-your-life married, to a person like this? Affairs are dirty. Good indicators of character.

I'm glad you're keeping the Divorce active. I think you will need it. I think you can be a great single Dad, take care of yourself, your finances, even share time with the other two children who see you as father.

But you can't fix her. She isn't nice to you. You can find someone better.

Keep your inner strength up. We are here for you. Only the best to you.

-FH


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Not in CA but regardless, she moved, not me.


I am glad that CA is not that way (I lived there for years and was married there, but moved long ago), but once again don't take everything so literally. The act of leaving the house is the abandonment, and this means if she moves, sets up house and I accept it, then I have also abandoned. It is more than the one single action of leaving. I am not trying to harp on this, but losing your kids to a technicality can be a big issue and I would hate to see you lose them because you overlooked something. Without a separation agreement to cover you, it could get ugly. If my wife leaves and I let her take the kids, even if only part time without an agreement in place, if she does anything else, then I am considered in agreement and I lose my rights (this is where abandonment kicks in in my state as well). I was told by my lawyer to not leave the house or let the kids leave the house without an agreement in place. I would verify this with your lawyer so your case isn't hurt in any way, and that is all I am trying to get across (some lawyers could are less about really doing the client the best justice).


----------



## SF-FAN

Foghorn said:


> SF-FAN
> 
> I have been watching your thread. I have admired your self-control and your dignity. What you are going through is agonizing for anyone. And you are doing a great job of not going off the deep end.
> 
> I understand that she's moved out and further that you know your old marriage is "dead" and that anything going forward is going to be different. I see that you are set on the idea that reconciliation is possible.
> 
> I have a different question for you. It stems from the image of an old married couple on a porch, holding hands and enjoying their sunset years together.
> 
> Bottom line, what she's done indicates that she's really not a very nice person. Not kind, not self effacing, not loyal, not thoughtful. Maybe this is too Midwestern of me. But do you really want to be married, long term all-your-life married, to a person like this? Affairs are dirty. Good indicators of character.
> 
> I'm glad you're keeping the Divorce active. I think you will need it. I think you can be a great single Dad, take care of yourself, your finances, even share time with the other two children who see you as father.
> 
> But you can't fix her. She isn't nice to you. You can find someone better.
> 
> Keep your inner strength up. We are here for you. Only the best to you.
> 
> -FH



Thanks Foghorn, you make some very valid points and offer great advice to mull over. I know I don't have to change for anyone and she doesn't either. She expresses that she wants to - will she? The odds are against her but I believe people can change. I do believe I deserve someone better and I told her that. She feels she can go to IC and fight to become the person she really is and not the nasty person she has been. If she can truly do that, not for me, but for her, then great - maybe R is a slim possibility, but if not I move on. Nothing lost that I haven't already lost.


----------



## Foghorn

SF-FAN said:


> She feels she can go to IC and fight to become the person she really is and not the nasty person she has been. If she can truly do that, not for me, but for her, then great - maybe R is a slim possibility, but if not I move on.


Maybe. It is true, that people can change. 

But, meanwhile, keep your powder dry.


----------



## ThePheonix

Like you say SF, nothing lost you haven't lost already. Look at it like a new car my man. That first scratch is earth shattering. After that, the next one ain't such a big deal.


----------



## BobSimmons

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks Foghorn, you make some very valid points and offer great advice to mull over. I know I don't have to change for anyone and she doesn't either. She expresses that she wants to - will she? The odds are against her but I believe people can change. I do believe I deserve someone better and I told her that. She feels she can go to IC and fight to become the person she really is and not the nasty person she has been. If she can truly do that, not for me, but for her, then great - maybe R is a slim possibility, but if not I move on.* Nothing lost that I haven't already lost*.


You can never get back... time.


----------



## SF-FAN

ThePheonix said:


> Like you say SF, nothing lost you haven't lost already. Look at it like a new car my man. That first scratch is earth shattering. After that, the next one ain't such a big deal.


That's the point I am trying to make! Thank you for giving such a good example.


----------



## SF-FAN

BobSimmons said:


> You can never get back... time.


Well the only time I will be losing is at MC for an hour a week. If I don't see much progress within the first few sessions or if I feel she is being shady in anyway, I will pull out and end things completely. That was already the case anyway.


----------



## SF-FAN

I am also putting myself in her filthy shoes. If I was her and wanted to be with someone else or multiple people and I was given the freedom to do so, I wouldn't be looking to go to MC or R. What for. And especially offer to pay for it?! That'd be a waste of time and money for me.

If I was really into the A, I'd love the fact that I wouldn't have to sneak around anymore. It's fine that you guys want to condemn all cheater because I am with that but each individual relationship is unique and I don't believe all can be treated the same. I have noticed that when someone posts a thread, they immediately get the same advice. I don't think it works that way.


----------



## 3putt

SF-FAN said:


> I am also putting myself in her filthy shoes. If I was her and wanted to be with someone else or multiple people and I was given the freedom to do so, I wouldn't be looking to go to MC or R. What for. And especially offer to pay for it?! That'd be a waste of time and money for me.
> 
> If I was really into the A, I'd love the fact that I wouldn't have to sneak around anymore. *It's fine that you guys want to condemn all cheater because I am with that but each individual relationship is unique and I don't believe all can be treated the same.* I have noticed that when someone posts a thread, they immediately get the same advice. I don't think it works that way.


If you truly believe this, you are in for one rude awakening, pal. Someone who truly wants to recover their marriage doesn't move out to have their space. They want their space to conduct their affair with no one in the way. And the only reason she is agreeing to MC is so that she can say to everybody when it fails (and it will) that she tried and it just didn't work. She setting herself up to save as much face as possible. That's all it is.

But if you still want to believe that your WW or situation is that one in a million that is different, then you go right on ahead. Believe me, it wouldn't be the first time we've heard it.

You mention the advice never changing from thread to thread. Did you ever stop to think that there might be a pretty damned good reason it never does? Hell, I'm quite sure I'm not the only that's tired of spewing the same ol' same ol', but, like I said, it's the same ol' for a reason.

Everyone that posted to you was right before. What really makes you think they are wrong now?

You're not different, she's not different, your situation is not different. It's garden variety. Textbook.


----------



## adriana

SF-FAN said:


> I am also putting myself in her filthy shoes. If I was her and wanted to be with someone else or multiple people and I was given the freedom to do so, I wouldn't be looking to go to MC or R. What for. And especially offer to pay for it?! That'd be a waste of time and money for me.
> 
> If I was really into the A, I'd love the fact that I wouldn't have to sneak around anymore. It's fine that you guys want to condemn all cheater because I am with that but each individual relationship is unique and I don't believe all can be treated the same. I have noticed that when someone posts a thread, they immediately get the same advice. I don't think it works that way.



SF-FAN, your codependency starts showing itself once again. You're capable of occasional "macho" talk but acting on it is entirely different story. In fact, your wife is still riding you like a blind donkey. Nothing has changed.


----------



## Racer

SF-FAN said:


> I am also putting myself in her filthy shoes. If I was her and wanted to be with someone else or multiple people and I was given the freedom to do so, I wouldn't be looking to go to MC or R. What for. And especially offer to pay for it?! That'd be a waste of time and money for me..


That's the problem. You can't put yourself in her shoes because you aren't like her or know what she's thinking. If you could do that, you wouldn't be here.

She wanted the separation thing too (I refused). She has admitted now the obvious; She wanted to see if her and her boyfriend would work out. Basically, she couldn't do that with me in the picture and needed space to have chunks of time and days/nights to spend real time with him. I was "Plan B" in case she found it didn't work out. In her head, then "she'd know because she'd miss me if she truly loved me". That's not going to happen while she's high on dopamine and a ton of attention/screwing the OM... On top of that, anything she'd feel she'd write off to missing the kids because I'd have them on 'my days'. So she wouldn't miss me, just the kids because she wouldn't be lonely and he'd be spending the night. Like I said though, I knew that'd be the case so I refused separation beyond a "legal separation" (a required pre-cursor to the divorce).

The MC she had us do was about me. According to her, I had a lot of work to do and things to fix about myself before she'd truly reconsider staying married to me; That's how it was in her head. She wouldn't need that OM if I wouldn't drive her away and just be a 'good husband' (whatever that is to her). She was the prize and I was a loser who lost her. Foggy much?


----------



## GutPunch

3putt is right. Textbook. I've seen several of these on TAM over the past year. They all played out as 3putt suggests.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheBetrayedOne

Racer said:


> That's the problem. You can't put yourself in her shoes because you aren't like her or know what she's thinking. If you could do that, you wouldn't be here.
> 
> She wanted the separation thing too (I refused). She has admitted now the obvious; She wanted to see if her and her boyfriend would work out. Basically, she couldn't do that with me in the picture and needed space to have chunks of time and days/nights to spend real time with him. I was "Plan B" in case she found it didn't work out. In her head, then "she'd know because she'd miss me if she truly loved me". That's not going to happen while she's high on dopamine and a ton of attention/screwing the OM... On top of that, anything she'd feel she'd write off to missing the kids because I'd have them on 'my days'. So she wouldn't miss me, just the kids because she wouldn't be lonely and he'd be spending the night. Like I said though, I knew that'd be the case so I refused separation beyond a "legal separation" (a required pre-cursor to the divorce).
> 
> The MC she had us do was about me. According to her, I had a lot of work to do and things to fix about myself before she'd truly reconsider staying married to me; That's how it was in her head. She wouldn't need that OM if I wouldn't drive her away and just be a 'good husband' (whatever that is to her). She was the prize and I was a loser who lost her. Foggy much?


Wow.. If I didn't know better I could say this is my life.


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> Nope, I will not be financing anything. Her bills are her bills and my bills are my bills. She doesn't even want child support for my son. She wants nothing from me.
> 
> At this point there is no reason for her to take the A underground, we're not living together. She can do as she pleases. She is the one that is saying she doesn't want to date anyone else and wants to get back the marriage we once had. So to me that says something that she has her 100% freedom to do what she wants but is not taking it.


Do you have some arrangement with her about your seeing the children?


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> I'm in law school and work for a lawyer but not a Family Lawyer. Lawyers know the law but not all aspects. I have a lawyer who is filing the D and will meet with him again soon. She is deathly afraid of going to court because her family said they would testify against her for being a bad mother and have the kids taken away from her (where the fathers will get custody). Child support and half of what I have doesn't scare me with her because 1) I don't have anything and 2) I would only have to pay for 1 child and not 3.


So she's not a good mother, right? Or why would HER family say so? So why are you letting her claim to be a good mother?



> I get she's a liar, a cheater and a manipulator. That is at the forefront of my mind, however, she doesn't have to want R. She can just go off and date her POSOM and live their sick happy fantasy. I can give a sh*t if she lives with remorse for the rest of her life, however, I will not. If there is even a sliver of hope for our marriage to be resurected, I don't want to be the one to wonder about it in the future. Like I said, I feel I don't have much to lose at this point. She is paying for the MC.


You have little to lose, but that's not nothing. You want rights to your child at least. Even your in-laws seem to agree with that. Talk to your lawyer about the ramifications of each of these options.


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> We're not going to court just yet, if we do, I will be the one with the most to lose. Her family will testify against her BUT there is still a good chance the kids will NOT be taken away from her because though she cheated and leaves them with me for work, school, etc., they will likely not see her as in unfit parent. The courts in this county don't take away parental rights for anything. It's disgusting. The damage has been done, the A was exposed, there's no more damage to control.


That depends on what state you live in. In many states, no fault applies to everything BUT custodial arrangements for the children. Those are determined separately. If you have been the custodial parent that would have counted greatly in your favor. But if you let her take the children you lose that advantage even if the custody is 50%.

Please talk to a lawyer before you make any definite agreements about these things. The law isn't for amateurs.


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> At first I wanted to take her to court and destroy her image but my attorney said that may make me feel good, but may not bring the best outcome financially. I asked about R and he said that if there was any possibility of R happening, I should explore it because D can get expensive regardless of court or mediation. Unless she waives it, I will have to pay child support.


That does not sound right to me. If you are in California, check on the web for a child support calculator. Given that she makes more money than you do and that you have 50% custody, she may well have to pay you child support.

Of course that's only for your biological child. Seeing the other children is probably going to be up to her unless you have adopted one or both of them.

Please see a lawyer. I see trouble ahead.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Here's all I have to say, how is she being transparent and wanting to work on the marriage when she left you because of another man?

The first thing I do, when my wife and I have a major problem, is get another place to live to help deal with the situation. Think long and hard how ridiculous this sounds.


----------



## TRy

SF-FAN said:


> If I was her and wanted to be with someone else or multiple people and I was given the freedom to do so, I wouldn't be looking to go to MC or R. What for.


 She is doing it to stall. Right now things do not look good for her, so she is letting time have a chance to change things. For instance, currently her family is against her and is willing to testify on your behalf that she is a bad mother, but will that be true in the future after she shows them that she tried to save the marriage with MC and R? Right now you have a chance to get custody, but if she is allowed to keep the children with her home being the primary, will that help her get better custody rights? Although she is now not asking for child support, will she tell the courts that you are such a bad dad that you did not help pay to support your own children as she and them struggled financially? Also, in the divorce, they can go after you for past child support all the way from when the two of you first separated. Additionally, with her having children from a previous marriage that you have weak legal standing with, courts often factor in that you child should not be separated from their siblings, meaning your child goes with siblings that will for sure go to her.

Of course you would be thinking about all of the above if you were at all out war with her, but by keeping you having hope, she is buying time and keeping you off your game.


----------



## jim123

Racer said:


> That's the problem. You can't put yourself in her shoes because you aren't like her or know what she's thinking. If you could do that, you wouldn't be here.
> 
> She wanted the separation thing too (I refused). She has admitted now the obvious; She wanted to see if her and her boyfriend would work out. Basically, she couldn't do that with me in the picture and needed space to have chunks of time and days/nights to spend real time with him. I was "Plan B" in case she found it didn't work out. In her head, then "she'd know because she'd miss me if she truly loved me". That's not going to happen while she's high on dopamine and a ton of attention/screwing the OM... On top of that, anything she'd feel she'd write off to missing the kids because I'd have them on 'my days'. So she wouldn't miss me, just the kids because she wouldn't be lonely and he'd be spending the night. Like I said though, I knew that'd be the case so I refused separation beyond a "legal separation" (a required pre-cursor to the divorce).
> 
> The MC she had us do was about me. According to her, I had a lot of work to do and things to fix about myself before she'd truly reconsider staying married to me; That's how it was in her head. She wouldn't need that OM if I wouldn't drive her away and just be a 'good husband' (whatever that is to her). She was the prize and I was a loser who lost her. Foggy much?


I guess some have to learn for themselves.


----------



## illwill

He will learn. You can burn without smelling the fumes.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> All I know is I am dying with this pain in my heart, can't eat, didn't sleep, and somehow got out of bed, dropped off the kids and came into work.
> 
> It's weird, I feel numb but feel like someone reached in my chest, grabbed my heart, threw it on the ground and is stepping on it with cleats.


I know exactly the pain you describe all too well. You really loved her. That's why you felt that pain and she destroyed you. 

Now let me tell you something. She does NOT love you the way you love her. She ONLY wants space so she can take her affair underground. She's just leading you on because she wants to keep you on the hook as Plan B. She doesn't mean what she says to you. It's really that simple. 

Let her go man... Some people are just more trouble than they are worth. In time, you will eventually realize that you are TOO GOOD for her. You don't deserve a liar and a cheater. You didn't ask for this to happen. Why should you have to compromise YOUR self-respect? I promise you she will come crawling back if you cut her off and start looking for someone else. And I hope you are strong enough by then to say no. She will end up miserable and alone, not you.


----------



## Racer

jim123 said:


> I guess some have to learn for themselves.


Yep. I was one of those. Had to get kicked when I was already down with a false R. 

And SF... I am still in R. Just had to change the approach.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> I know exactly the pain you describe all too well. You really loved her. That's why you felt that pain and she destroyed you.
> 
> Now let me tell you something. She does NOT love you the way you love her. She ONLY wants space so she can take her affair underground. She's just leading you on because she wants to keep you on the hook as Plan B. She doesn't mean what she says to you. It's really that simple.
> 
> Let her go man... Some people are just more trouble than they are worth. In time, you will eventually realize that you are TOO GOOD for her. You don't deserve a liar and a cheater. You didn't ask for this to happen. Why should you have to compromise YOUR self-respect? I promise you she will come crawling back if you cut her off and start looking for someone else. And I hope you are strong enough by then to say no. She will end up miserable and alone, not you.


Thanks for the advice. I know everyone on here means well and speak from experience. It may appear I am giving her a second chance and that I am going to be waiting around for her so that we can R and be happily ever after.

What I don't think I am making clear is the fact that I am letting her go, I'm just not telling her that. She may think she is keeping me as plan B but that's not going to happen. The bottom line is she cheated, when I found out and told her about it, she found a place and moved out because I told her I was done and didn't want to be with someone like that. 

According to her, she regrets it and wants to R. In my mind, I am moving on without her so whether she's serious or not, I can give 2 sh*ts at this point. I AM MOVING ON ALREADY. What she wants at this point is not important to me. Yes, I may agree to R, however, I am not seeing it as something that is going to work and I'm not giving her false hope.

There is no face to save on her part. Everyone knows she is a cheating scum bag and that's it. The damage to her rep is done. Whether we R or not, that's not going to make people view her differently. I told her "go be with your POSOM, I don't give a sh*t, you two dirtballs deserve eachother!"

I may be coming off as if I am going to put my life on hold, go to MC and hope she is not doing anything with the OM. I am living with the mindset that she is so again I AM MOVING ON!

If she wants to go to MC and try to talk, I may go so that the D is stalled a bit so I don't have to give her marital support right away. Other than that, again I AM MOVING ON with my life.


----------



## 2asdf2

Sounds like you are taking a very reasonable approach.

She may, yet, turn out to be in genuine remorse.

I hope that is the case.


----------



## Racer

And well SF, one of my thoughts early on was I can always D later. The choice to R is an ongoing decision. And to me, once I D, there is no going back.

Some older BH's and I have talked in the past. For several of us, there's almost this right of passage to try R in a civil way, get donkey punched and beaten down, before we were able to do what we needed to do to really approach R. We essentially had to be broken even deeper.

Another similarity we shared I don't know if you do or not. Our pre-marriage 'number' was very low indeed. Don't know why and have speculated, but it seemed to make us a tenacious bunch where we continued to R long after our peers would have with our unremorseful WW's. 

As always, trust your gut.


----------



## SF-FAN

Racer said:


> And well SF, one of my thoughts early on was I can always D later. The choice to R is an ongoing decision. And to me, once I D, there is no going back.
> 
> Some older BH's and I have talked in the past. For several of us, there's almost this right of passage to try R in a civil way, get donkey punched and beaten down, before we were able to do what we needed to do to really approach R. We essentially had to be broken even deeper.
> 
> Another similarity we shared I don't know if you do or not. Our pre-marriage 'number' was very low indeed. Don't know why and have speculated, but it seemed to make us a tenacious bunch where we continued to R long after our peers would have with our unremorseful WW's.
> 
> As always, trust your gut.


The D is still proceeding. That hasn't changed. In my mind I am alone and moving on. It hurts tremendously, I am not going to lie but I have no choice. I am not going to sit and get played yet again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.


----------



## Pepper123

Glad to hear that you are moving forward with a logical approach, SF. I'm in CA too... such a PITA state when it comes to D.


----------



## Disenchanted

SF-FAN said:


> The D is still proceeding. That hasn't changed. In my mind I am alone and moving on. It hurts tremendously, I am not going to lie but I have no choice. I am not going to sit and get played yet again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.


Glad to see this. Your wife is a serial cheater and you have known it for years.

Hey, I finalized my divorce a month ago (took two years after she started screwing another guy) and my life is WAY WAY WAY better then I ever thought it could be again.

Good luck.


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN;6922545I said:


> honestly feel I have nothing more to lose.


If you take her back, you stand to lose everything, all over again.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> Yes, I may agree to R, however, I am not seeing it as something that is going to work and I'm not giving her false hope.


Don't agree to it. If you don't want to flat out tell her you are 100% done then just don't say anything. You keep the upper hand by keeping her on her toes and thinking you are ready to jet the minute she slips up.




SF-FAN said:


> The D is still proceeding. That hasn't changed. In my mind, I am alone and moving on. It hurts tremendously, I am not going to lie but I have no choice. I am not going to sit and get played yet again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.


Good for you. The way I see it. No one deserves to be cheated on but if the second time around you knowingly decide to stay with a cheater and you get burned again.... well.... just saying.... it's one thing to be fooled. It's quite another to act like a fool and ignore the obvious.


----------



## jim123

SF-FAN said:


> The D is still proceeding. That hasn't changed. In my mind I am alone and moving on. It hurts tremendously, I am not going to lie but I have no choice. I am not going to sit and get played yet again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.


You are standing up for your M and yourself.

You will be able to get control whether you R or D. 

There is no wrong decision if you are dealing from strength.


----------



## SF-FAN

Had to take a break from the forum for a bit to just clear my head and focus on my life. WW moved out and I am going to be moving to a nicer home in a few weeks. Though I know her and the OM are POS, I am having a relapse of heartbreak. Not sure if it's because it Valentine's day or our birthdays are within the next week but really having a hard time today. Wish I could take my heart out and be done.


----------



## weightlifter

SF-FAN said:


> Had to take a break from the forum for a bit to just clear my head and focus on my life. WW moved out and I am going to be moving to a nicer home in a few weeks. Though I know her and the OM are POS, I am having a relapse of heartbreak. Not sure if it's because it Valentine's day or our birthdays are within the next week but really having a hard time today. Wish I could take my heart out and be done.


OF course its cause of V day cause she is with him... We had the similar one last year. (Wasnt that the "She thinks she never cheated" thread? He goes to drop off kids and she is all dolled up... blah blah blah) Adding birthdays will only make it worse.

Come here. Vent. Unfortunately there are only two things that will make things better. Time and vagina juice. Time is self evident. Vagina juice, once you see women are still interested up very close and very personal, (WHEN you are ready!)

Too bad V day isnt a month later and you in better shape mentally. Some women will have flings today just to not be alone.


----------



## kenmoore14217

smooth sailing SF, no worries either.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> OF course its cause of V day cause she is with him... We had the similar one last year. (Wasnt that the "She thinks she never cheated" thread? He goes to drop off kids and she is all dolled up... blah blah blah) Adding birthdays will only make it worse.
> 
> Come here. Vent. Unfortunately there are only two things that will make things better. Time and vagina juice. Time is self evident. Vagina juice, once you see women are still interested up very close and very personal, (WHEN you are ready!)
> 
> Too bad V day isnt a month later and you in better shape mentally. Some women will have flings today just to not be alone.


V day and her birthday is Monday and mine on Wednesday. Before all this happened, we had plans and so of course they are not happening. Venting does help - I can't even think about being with another woman. It doesn't feel right yet. I have morals, unlike my WW.


----------



## weightlifter

SF-FAN said:


> V day and her birthday is Monday and mine on Wednesday. Before all this happened, we had plans and so of course they are not happening. Venting does help - I can't even think about being with another woman. It doesn't feel right yet. I have morals, unlike my WW.


She is still with him right? and today right?

I understand. I disagree but whose road is it? YOURS!

Just understand how many times in my time here I have seen vagina juice cause a radical change in the betrayed man's entire psyche. Its like MFing superglue for your ego.

Again YOUR road.

SFs not WLs

Anyway vent away.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> She is still with him right? and today right?
> 
> I understand. I disagree but whose road is it? YOURS!
> 
> Just understand how many times in my time here I have seen vagina juice cause a radical change in the betrayed man's entire psyche. Its like MFing superglue for your ego.
> 
> Again YOUR road.
> 
> SFs not WLs
> 
> Anyway vent away.


I don't know if they are together. She has school all day and then work. It's not the thought of them necessarily being together at this moment, it's the thought of them having sex that is absolutely killing me. I don't even know if they are still seeing eachother (more than likely yes) but I don't know for sure. The mind movies, the fact that I'm not the one being intimate with her is destroying me.

Trust me, as soon as I am emotionally well enough, I will start talking to girls. Right now, it might help, but I'm not ready.


----------



## cool12

do you have plans tonight?
maybe hoing out with some friends would make you feel better.

(i intentionally left my typo there. that might feel pretty good too, lol)


----------



## SF-FAN

cool12 said:


> do you have plans tonight?
> maybe hoing out with some friends would make you feel better.
> 
> (i intentionally left my typo there. that might feel pretty good too, lol)


I don't have plans except to spend time with my kids tonight. All of my friends are married with kids so they all likely have plans tonight with their spouses. Must be nice to actually have a spouse that is loyal and devoted to the marriage. I honestly forgot what that feels like.

It's hard for me to be outgoing when I'm in so much pain. I don't really have fun. It's hard enough I have to put on a front with my kids.


----------



## weightlifter

Time dude. Time.

Oh and lift weights. IT has a good psychological affect.

Just dont say no if a girl just happens to make it stupid easy.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Time dude. Time.
> 
> Oh and lift weights. IT has a good psychological affect.
> 
> Just dont say no if a girl just happens to make it stupid easy.


I'm into working out and lifting but it's been on the back burner for a bit. As soon as I feel up to it, I will get back on it. I wish a girl would make it stupid easy...if that happens I won't fight it.


----------



## LostViking

You have to make yourself get out there SF. Don't let your WW's cheating rob you of your life. You have a right to be happy, so go get it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

SF-FAN said:


> I'm into working out and lifting but it's been on the back burner for a bit. As soon as I feel up to it, I will get back on it. I wish a girl would make it stupid easy...if that happens I won't fight it.


Nope, don't get into a rut. The time to it is when you are actively looking for excuses.


----------



## happi_g_more2

dude, what are you like 3 weeks out from D-day. Give it some time. Wallow a bit. Hug your kids a ton. Stop worrying about the outside world for a while (her, him, other women...just stop). On strong days, work out. On weak days, draw the shades and sleep. Find 1 or 2 things that you want to fix about your self and start planning on how to fix them....you dont have to start, just start planning. SF Fan? If im guessing right, you got pitchers and catchers reporting tomorrow...lots of baseball coming up. 

Just remember 1 thing. One day she will look at you and have 1 of 2 thoughts:
1) Man he is a mess, i really F'ed him up. Oh well, time to go F*** my new man
2) There goes the best thing I ever had. I cant believe I let him out of my life...and for what...1 weekend of sex. Im a *****.

Its 100% up to you.


----------



## alte Dame

Keep yourself BUSY. Force yourself. When you are with your kids, choose to do things that aren't passive. Don't sit and watch TV for hours. Play some games, go outside and be active, etc. Keep your mind active on other things. Your pain will always be there, but you can force it to a dull ache until it gets better.


----------



## DavidWYoung

I might be wrong or a little crazy but I was in your situation, a long time ago. If I have learned anything about it is, I did it all wrong. If I could go back in time, I would grieve for the marriage for three days and then stop and start my new exciting life up.

There are many thing's out there that you can learn to do to start your new path. You must understand the this is YOUR new life.
OK here comes the crazy part. You know in the old arcades, you could play a racing game with two people sitting side by side?What I think you are doing is, looking at her screen to see if she is having more fun than you. She is no longer your "Race Partner". It is no longer a team thing but that is OK. 

You get to start a new life if you will stop looking at that screen. Your screen could have you happy, fit, confident and chasing your dreams. I know it sounds stupid, but I watched my ex's screen for years until I woke up and started enjoying life.

Just my 2 cents David


----------



## SF-FAN

Thanks guys, that's great advice. It hasn't been very long so obviously it's fresh. On top of that I've never really lived by myself so when the kids aren't here, it is super lonely. And when the kids are here my mind continuously wonders if the POSOM is with her. I know I can find someone better but doubt sets in continuously. What if she's the best I can get?

Don't get me wrong, I know you guys are all right. It's just mind over matter.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> dude, what are you like 3 weeks out from D-day. Give it some time. Wallow a bit. Hug your kids a ton. Stop worrying about the outside world for a while (her, him, other women...just stop). On strong days, work out. On weak days, draw the shades and sleep. Find 1 or 2 things that you want to fix about your self and start planning on how to fix them....you dont have to start, just start planning. SF Fan? If im guessing right, you got pitchers and catchers reporting tomorrow...lots of baseball coming up.
> 
> Just remember 1 thing. One day she will look at you and have 1 of 2 thoughts:
> 1) Man he is a mess, i really F'ed him up. Oh well, time to go F*** my new man
> 2) There goes the best thing I ever had. I cant believe I let him out of my life...and for what...1 weekend of sex. Im a *****.
> 
> Its 100% up to you.


Oh she said she is going to change and I'm going to be the one with regret.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Found the evidence of wife having an affair*



SF-FAN said:


> What if she's the best I can get.


She's cheating on you. She's NOT the best that you can get! Trust me!


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Oh she said she is going to change and I'm going to be the one with regret.


And did you say "good ****ing luck with that, *****?"


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> And did you say "good ****ing luck with that, *****?"


I told her she'd never change. Serial cheaters usually don't. They cheat until no ones interested anymore then they try to get back the good people they screwed over.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> I told her she'd never change. Serial cheaters usually don't. They cheat until no ones interested anymore then they try to get back the good people they screwed over.


Just keep reminding yourself that you are morning the removal of a cancerous tumor. Sounds pretty freakin ridiculous when you look at it that way, doesn't it? Your life was plagued by this cancer and it has now been removed. You have to heal for a bit, but when you are past that, you will be better then you were before.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by SF-FAN *
> I told her she'd never change. Serial cheaters usually don't. They cheat until no ones interested anymore then they try to get back the good people they screwed over.


You have decided that she is history right?


*FORCE yourself to get involved in other interests and keep doing things to build yourself up.* You thinking about all the heartbreak stuff is poison to you.
You will fall back from time to time back into the heartbreak stuff but make youself stop and get occupied with building yourself up.

You are either going to get better or worse; there is no staying in the middle with this situation. Your emotional (and maybe physical health also) depends on you building yourself up without any involvement with her

I know that it is tempting to rehash your wife but you have made a decision so break your dependency on her


----------



## weightlifter

SF I know you are hurting and wonder how you can go on...

Today we had a graduation...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/109002-there-any-point-59.html#post7141417

See yourself there in 6 months

And believe.

Read his whole thread. His first posts sound a lot like you.


----------



## cool12

i saw in another thread that you went to her apt while posom was there.

plz, plz, plz spend your time with your kids being present for them and not worrying about her. keep yourself occupied with your kids:

cook meals together
play board games
make popcorn, some salted, some sweet
watch the olympics
create your own goofy olympics and have a medal ceremony
read out loud to each other
go on a walk
skype with a family member
go to a bookstore
make pancakes for dinner, complete w/ fresh fruit and whipped cream

do not spend this time thinking about her. she's a cheater, a liar and not worth your time.


----------



## SF-FAN

Mr Blunt said:


> You have decided that she is history right?
> 
> 
> *FORCE yourself to get involved in other interests and keep doing things to build yourself up.* You thinking about all the heartbreak stuff is poison to you.
> You will fall back from time to time back into the heartbreak stuff but make youself stop and get occupied with building yourself up.
> 
> You are either going to get better or worse; there is no staying in the middle with this situation. Your emotional (and maybe physical health also) depends on you building yourself up without any involvement with her
> 
> I know that it is tempting to rehash your wife but you have made a decision so break your dependency on her


Yes I am moving on but the one drawback I have is her having him over at her appt. when I have the kids. It absolutely kills me. If I could let go of that, I'd be able to move on a lot better.


----------



## SF-FAN

cool12 said:


> i saw in another thread that you went to her apt while posom was there.
> 
> plz, plz, plz spend your time with your kids being present for them and not worrying about her. keep yourself occupied with your kids:
> 
> cook meals together
> play board games
> make popcorn, some salted, some sweet
> watch the olympics
> create your own goofy olympics and have a medal ceremony
> read out loud to each other
> go on a walk
> skype with a family member
> go to a bookstore
> make pancakes for dinner, complete w/ fresh fruit and whipped cream
> 
> do not spend this time thinking about her. she's a cheater, a liar and not worth your time.


Thanks, we had a good time that night but after bed time, my anger and gut feelings got the best of me.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks, we had a good time that night but after bed time, my anger and gut feelings got the best of me.


get something to help you sleep and go to bed when they do.
nyquil, tylenol pm, whatever. there is no good reason for you staying up late right now. the more sleep you get the better.


----------



## brokeneric

SF-FAN said:


> Yes I am moving on but the one drawback I have is her having him over at her appt. when I have the kids. It absolutely kills me. If I could let go of that, I'd be able to move on a lot better.


Think like a dog when she is involved - you can't stay with her, have sex with her, so p!ss on her and move on.


----------



## SF-FAN

cool12 said:


> get something to help you sleep and go to bed when they do.
> nyquil, tylenol pm, whatever. there is no good reason for you staying up late right now. the more sleep you get the better.


Just the thought of them having a place to do whatever they want with no one bothering them angers me to no end. I feel jealousy, anger, hatred, pain, etc. I feel like I can't let them have it easy. Like its my job to put a stop to it for my kids sake.


----------



## cool12

i can't say i know how you're feeling exactly but i can tell you this - you don't have it stop them being together bc time will undoubtedly break them up. 
do something better with your time. 

they'll get theirs, i promise. 
and by then you'll be so far beyond their self-created BS and drama you might even feel a little bad for them. but mostly you'll feel grateful to be done with her. 

she is showing you what kind of person she is. see her for who she truly is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> Just the thought of them having a place to do whatever they want with no one bothering them angers me to no end. I feel jealousy, anger, hatred, pain, etc. I feel like I can't let them have it easy. Like its my job to put a stop to it for my kids sake.



SF, your looking at this from a scarcity point of view. It sucks. No denying. But look at it this way, there are 150 million women in this country. Drill down thru the math and i bet there are 1000's of women in your area who would love to dote in you. 

I have a friend, his EX stepped out. They got divorced, and once he started dating he had 100's of dates. Why? Because he was a catch. He dated single moms. He had a job. He was a dad already. All huge pluses to the women he dated. Frankly he's nothing but average in looks and he dated very cute women. 

So flip to an abundance mentality. Every time you start to get down on yourself just remember she sh!t on you! She did you a favor and gave you the option to find a woman BETTER than her. In a year tell her "thanks for setting me free!"


----------



## alte Dame

^^^ This is true, SF-FAN. You are a catch. Her posom is a loser. I'm not just saying that.


----------



## weightlifter

SF what is your job generically? "Electrical engineer" is specific enough.
Age?
Height/weight?
You need to see your doc. Tell him what happened. You need drugs or this is gonna eat you alive. You wont be his first.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> You have decided that she is history right?
> 
> 
> FORCE yourself to get involved in other interests and keep doing things to build yourself up. You thinking about all the heartbreak stuff is poison to you.
> You will fall back from time to time back into the heartbreak stuff but make youself stop and get occupied with building yourself up.
> 
> You are either going to get better or worse; there is no staying in the middle with this situation. Your emotional (and maybe physical health also) depends on you building yourself up without any involvement with her
> 
> I know that it is tempting to rehash your wife but you have made a decision so break your dependency on her
> 
> 
> *Reply by SF-Fan*
> Yes I am moving on but the one drawback I have is her having him over at her appt. when I have the kids. It absolutely kills me. If I could let go of that, I'd be able to move on a lot better.



Avoid you knowing that they are together as much as possible; do not be like a moth drawn to the flame. When you can not avoid seeing them together in the apt then use that emotional explosion in your body to drive you to get yourself better.Use that shock to your advantage. The pain will not go away but you will be gaining. That is better than you having the pain, dwelling on that pain, and not gaining.


*The absolute very best results in this type situation is for you to gain in many areas*. With time, you doing the right things to get over these crises, and you making your self better, you will have turned this nightmare into you being much more secure and emotionally stronger.


I know that it is a lot easier said than done but you only have two choices; pain and no gain or pain with gain.


----------



## the guy

You have to force those dark thoughts out of your had. She is no longer no longer your concern, she is not the women you married, that women died, she is just some women who watches your kids when you can't.

When this women is watching your kids you must get out and start meeting new people. What this women does on her free time away from your kids is not your business, just like it is none of her business what you do on your free time whale she watches your kids.

Stop obsessing about what someone else is doing and go out and have some of your own fun. 

This kind of thing is unhealthy, it's time you get out more, it's time to cultivate your own relationship for the future.

And don't give us this crap about waiting for the D to go thru, in this case I think it's in your best interest to find someone else to focus on. I mean if this really eating at you the I think in this case for your own emotional health you go out and get some strange... or at the very least start casually date and start practicing for when the divorce is final and you can be free.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

U.E. McGill said:


> SF, your looking at this from a scarcity point of view. It sucks. No denying. But look at it this way, there are 150 million women in this country. Drill down thru the math and i bet there are 1000's of women in your area who would love to dote in you.
> 
> I have a friend, his EX stepped out. They got divorced, and once he started dating he had 100's of dates. Why? Because he was a catch. He dated single moms. He had a job. He was a dad already. All huge pluses to the women he dated. Frankly he's nothing but average in looks and he dated very cute women.
> 
> So flip to an abundance mentality. Every time you start to get down on yourself just remember she sh!t on you! She did you a favor and gave you the option to find a woman BETTER than her. In a year tell her "thanks for setting me free!"


Thanks, I needed that. This weekend wasn't so bad but the women I did strike up a conversation with, we're all taken so I didn't proceed. Felt bitter sweet I guess. Gotta keep trying.


----------



## SF-FAN

Mr Blunt said:


> Avoid you knowing that they are together as much as possible; do not be like a moth drawn to the flame. When you can not avoid seeing them together in the apt then use that emotional explosion in your body to drive you to get yourself better.Use that shock to your advantage. The pain will not go away but you will be gaining. That is better than you having the pain, dwelling on that pain, and not gaining.
> 
> 
> *The absolute very best results in this type situation is for you to gain in many areas*. With time, you doing the right things to get over these crises, and you making your self better, you will have turned this nightmare into you being much more secure and emotionally stronger.
> 
> 
> I know that it is a lot easier said than done but you only have two choices; pain and no gain or pain with gain.


I don't see them together and will probably never see them together. She's in denial. But I'm not stupid. When the kids are at my house, she's going to have him over, it's only natural for a cheater. After the kids go to bed, I get to thinking about it and that's when it eats at me and I feel like going over there to bear his a$$.


----------



## SF-FAN

the guy said:


> You have to force those dark thoughts out of your had. She is no longer no longer your concern, she is not the women you married, that women died, she is just some women who watches your kids when you can't.
> 
> When this women is watching your kids you must get out and start meeting new people. What this women does on her free time away from your kids is not your business, just like it is none of her business what you do on your free time whale she watches your kids.
> 
> Stop obsessing about what someone else is doing and go out and have some of your own fun.
> 
> This kind of thing is unhealthy, it's time you get out more, it's time to cultivate your own relationship for the future.
> 
> And don't give us this crap about waiting for the D to go thru, in this case I think it's in your best interest to find someone else to focus on. I mean if this really eating at you the I think in this case for your own emotional health you go out and get some strange... or at the very least start casually date and start practicing for when the divorce is final and you can be free.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right. I guess I have to get rid of the "she's mine" mentality. It's a possession thing. I did get out this weekend but not to a bar or anything like that. Just to a friends house, mall, stores etc. talked to people but didn't ask for #s. it's hard but I'm trying.


----------



## weightlifter

or record it and put it on youp0rn.

Yea I know wishful thinking.

Good job on starting SF. Getting your bearings will take time.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> SF what is your job generically? "Electrical engineer" is specific enough.
> Age?
> Height/weight?
> You need to see your doc. Tell him what happened. You need drugs or this is gonna eat you alive. You wont be his first.


I am a paralegal in law school.
36
5'7"
140

I work out from time to time so I am fit (not cut like a fitness model or anything like that) but fit.

Dress nice, clean person. I know there's girls that would be interested but I seem to only be running into girls that are taken right now.


----------



## weightlifter

So not a troll and employed. Give it time.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> So not a troll and employed. Give it time.


I'm just in a funk I think. During the time I thought I was happily married, there'd be certain girls that would look at me and you just know they are either attracted to you or interested. For some reason, now when I see the same girls, it's not like that! I strike up a conversation with them and it's like I am inconveniencing them... Am I just giving off an odor of desperation or what could it be? As if I don't feel low enough...


----------



## SF-FAN

OR maybe I'm just forcing it? I'm not looking for a relationship, just someone to talk to and get my mind off. I think I'm going into conversations with a "have to close the deal" mentality.


----------



## weightlifter

Do what luvjava did. Have an extra ticket for a theatre... Go to match . Com. Just a companion date. Dip your toe before swimming.

Id wait till d is filed tho.

You aint poster disenchanted. Hell none of us are him.


----------



## illwill

She was obviously never really yours. POSOM did not steal her away. She chose to go. Good riddance.


----------



## kristin2349

SF-FAN said:


> I'm just in a funk I think. During the time I thought I was happily married, there'd be certain girls that would look at me and you just know they are either attracted to you or interested. For some reason, now when I see the same girls, it's not like that! I strike up a conversation with them and it's like I am inconveniencing them... Am I just giving off an odor of desperation or what could it be? As if I don't feel low enough...



The whiff of desperation can be real. I can tell you as a female, real confidence is attractive. Real, though. Faking it only works when you've got your stuff worked out and are ready to jump back in.

Venting to anyone else is better than crying into your beer on a date. Or worse showing signs of old wounds not yet healed. That will scare all the right women off and attract the crazy!

Just my .02 it's ok to take time and lick your wounds.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> I'm just in a funk I think. During the time I thought I was happily married, there'd be certain girls that would look at me and you just know they are either attracted to you or interested. For some reason, now when I see the same girls, it's not like that! I strike up a conversation with them and it's like I am inconveniencing them... Am I just giving off an odor of desperation or what could it be? As if I don't feel low enough...


I can tell you this from experience. Not that this is deep insight, i think everyone realizes this. Chicks are attracted to confidence above all else. When you are in the ****, they smell it. Now, this isn't a "get up and go" speech..cause god knows, thats impossible when you are down...way down. Just keep that in mind. If you cant look at yourself in the mirror and see a confident man, then no one else will. Like i said before, you are way too close d-day. Take time. I can promise you this, if you take time, heal, be HEALTHY!!!, WORKOUT!!!! READ!!!, get a hobby...**** like that. You will wake up one day with the girl of your dreams next to you and be like "wow..how did I get here".


----------



## happi_g_more2

kristin2349 said:


> The whiff of desperation can be real. I can tell you as a female, real confidence is attractive. Real, though. Faking it only works when you've got your stuff worked out and are ready to jump back in.
> 
> Venting to anyone else is better than crying into your beer on a date. Or worse showing signs of old wounds not yet healed. That will scare all the right women off and attract the crazy!
> 
> Just my .02 it's ok to take time and lick your wounds.


word!


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> I'm just in a funk I think. During the time I thought I was happily married, there'd be certain girls that would look at me and you just know they are either attracted to you or interested. For some reason, now when I see the same girls, it's not like that! I strike up a conversation with them and it's like I am inconveniencing them... Am I just giving off an odor of desperation or what could it be? As if I don't feel low enough...



There's a real phenomena called "pre-selection". Women see men with other women and subconsciously think "well if she thinks he's mate worthy there must be something to him". So don't sweat it. 

To emulate the same thing take some work friends (girls) out to a bar and go talk to a strange woman. She'll do the same as if you were married.


----------



## SF-FAN

U.E. McGill said:


> There's a real phenomena called "pre-selection". Women see men with other women and subconsciously think "well if she thinks he's mate worthy there must be something to him". So don't sweat it.
> 
> To emulate the same thing take some work friends (girls) out to a bar and go talk to a strange woman. She'll do the same as if you were married.


I work for a tiny office and am basically the only employee which also makes for a lonely day. So I can't really take co-workers out but when I go to different places and see a cute girl, I strike up a conversation. Before, I think I was looking to get a number but I think from now on I am just going to chit chat and be done with it. If they appear very interested then maybe I'll ask for their info but that won't be my goal.


----------



## weightlifter

house parties are your friend. Get some dude friends. House parties often come with a circle of females. Said females occasionally bring unattached females into the ciricle.


----------



## weightlifter

Addendum to above. Be cool but not too cool (Keep your distance but let them see you being good to kids etc) to those attached women. The worlds best in, besides being the uber alpha you are not... Is a recommendation of a friend.

Be cool, be you. When you walk into a party and you hear "SF!" like the "Norm!" greeting on the TV show Cheers, you will be surprised how fast things will turn.

Meetup.com join a hiking group or something.
Take a dance class in anything but rap/ hip hop or club music. you will be outnumbered by women in most cases.


----------



## SF-FAN

Today I just feel anger. Don't get how someone (anyone) can betray a person that loves them. I have morals and a conscience therefore can't feel happiness knowing I am betraying someone. I like to feel guilt free and know that people can look in any aspect of my life and will not find anything despicable. Why am I so stupid....maybe I should become a cheater? Seems to be the norm nowadays. Seems like loyal people are few and far between. Feel like bashing the OM's face in and leaving him for dead. Plain and Simpled - IF A WOMAN IS MARRIED, LEAVE HER THE FVCK ALONE!!!


----------



## mahike

These days are going to happen and it will die down with time. While I was very angry at my wife my anger toward that POS OM was over the top and IC did help. 

Your real anger should be at your wife she could have said no she could have stopped it at the start but she did not. The best revenge you could have is living a good life, enjoy life. It is hard to even have those thoughts but that is what you need to do.

Only talk with her about the kids nothing else. It will help you detach your feelings for her


----------



## SF-FAN

mahike said:


> These days are going to happen and it will die down with time. While I was very angry at my wife my anger toward that POS OM was over the top and IC did help.
> 
> Your real anger should be at your wife she could have said no she could have stopped it at the start but she did not. The best revenge you could have is living a good life, enjoy life. It is hard to even have those thoughts but that is what you need to do.
> 
> Only talk with her about the kids nothing else. It will help you detach your feelings for her


Thanks! I feel anger at them both but since I don't hit women, there's not much I can do. How I feel today, if I did come across that POS, I'd give him a good beating...though it may not help anything, I just feel so much anger towards both.

I understand it's a rollercoaster ride so I'm going to just have to take the good with the bad.


----------



## BetrayedDad

illwill said:


> She was obviously never really yours. POSOM did not steal her away. She chose to go. Good riddance.


This. Trust me take it from someone who dumped a serial cheater. If it wasn't him it would of been someone else. They will always find someone to cheat with because some people are just morally bankrupt. And they KNOW they are so they find people like us to USE because while they like being players, they don't want to get played themselves. The pinnacle of selfishness and hypocrisy.... 

The best revenge you can get is to do everything in your power to STOP giving a crap. It will drive them insane and at the same time help you heal. You have to accept that in her mind she does not care about you. So why should you care about someone who gives two sh!ts about you? Think about it... It's easier said then done I know but focus all you mental energy on the 180 and it time it will pay off.


----------



## the guy

"you deserve good things"

" you deserve good things"

"you deserve good things"

Anger is no a good thing!!!!


Why the phuck are letting this sh1t get you? Are you phucking better then all thius crap or what? what the hell are you thinking letting this bull crap define you?

Hey I have been there and you are letting other people....unhealthy people...moraless poeple get the better of you?????

PHUCK THEM....YOU DeSERVE GOOD THINGS!!!!!

Come on man your better then this don't let them control your emotion... smile be happy...you, me, and many folks don't cheat, don't plan on cheating and never will cheat....we're phucking better then that bull sh1t.


----------



## the guy

BTW...chicks don't like grumpy, angry guys..that like confident and positive guys that won't let other peoples bull sh1t define them!!!!


----------



## the guy

I don't care how much it hurts you gotta start faking being positive...you'll see it starts to come natural and then one day your just one positive mother phucker.


----------



## carmen ohio

SF-FAN said:


> I'm just in a funk I think. During the time I thought I was happily married, there'd be certain girls that would look at me and you just know they are either attracted to you or interested. For some reason, now when I see the same girls, it's not like that! I strike up a conversation with them and it's like I am inconveniencing them... Am I just giving off an odor of desperation or what could it be? As if I don't feel low enough...





SF-FAN said:


> OR maybe I'm just forcing it? I'm not looking for a relationship, just someone to talk to and get my mind off. I think I'm going into conversations with a "have to close the deal" mentality.





SF-FAN said:


> I work for a tiny office and am basically the only employee which also makes for a lonely day. So I can't really take co-workers out but when I go to different places and see a cute girl, I strike up a conversation. Before, I think I was looking to get a number but I think from now on I am just going to chit chat and be done with it. If they appear very interested then maybe I'll ask for their info but that won't be my goal.


Dear SF-FAN,

There is a wealth of information available on the Internet to help guys meet girls. Some of it is pretty crass but there is also a lot of good advice out there. One site you might want to check out is Good Looking Loser – Hardcore Self-Improvement Community. And it certainly wouldn't hurt to read _"Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011"_ by Athol Kay (I recommended this book in my last post on your previous thread).

The basic message is pretty simple: look sharp, exude confidence and don't fear being rejected (it's part of the universal male experience). The more you interact with women, the better you get at it, so don't give up. 

Happy hunting.


----------



## weightlifter

It will take a bit of time. I recommend the whyeme thread for a reason.


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> It will take a bit of time. I recommend the whyeme thread for a reason.


Read MMSLP if you have questions ask them.


----------



## lordmayhem

the guy said:


> I don't care how much it hurts you gotta start faking being positive...you'll see it starts to come natural and then one day your just one positive mother phucker.


:iagree:

Fake it until you make it!


----------



## mahike

SF - I know the feeling of wanting to beat the guy to a pulp. The one thing that pulled me back from my anger was my kids. What was I teaching my kids with my anger. They were young adults but a parent never stops trying to teach his kids to be better people!


----------



## missthelove2013

Foghorn said:


> SF-FAN
> 
> I have been watching your thread. I have admired your self-control and your dignity. What you are going through is agonizing for anyone. And you are doing a great job of not going off the deep end.
> 
> I understand that she's moved out and further that you know your old marriage is "dead" and that anything going forward is going to be different. I see that you are set on the idea that reconciliation is possible.
> 
> I have a different question for you. It stems from the image of an old married couple on a porch, holding hands and enjoying their sunset years together.
> 
> Bottom line, what she's done indicates that she's really not a very nice person. Not kind, not self effacing, not loyal, not thoughtful. Maybe this is too Midwestern of me. But do you really want to be married, long term all-your-life married, to a person like this? Affairs are dirty. Good indicators of character.
> 
> I'm glad you're keeping the Divorce active. I think you will need it. I think you can be a great single Dad, take care of yourself, your finances, even share time with the other two children who see you as father.
> 
> But you can't fix her. She isn't nice to you. You can find someone better.
> 
> Keep your inner strength up. We are here for you. Only the best to you.
> 
> -FH


truth


----------



## missthelove2013

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks Foghorn, you make some very valid points and offer great advice to mull over. I know I don't have to change for anyone and she doesn't either. She expresses that she wants to - will she? The odds are against her but I believe people can change. I do believe I deserve someone better and I told her that. She feels she can go to IC and fight to become the person she really is and not the nasty person she has been. If she can truly do that, not for me, but for her, then great - maybe R is a slim possibility, but if not I move on. Nothing lost that I haven't already lost.


that is delusional
She ALREADY IS the person she really is...at best MC/IC and R can make her temporarily act like the person SHE thinks YOU want her to be...key word is temporarily...

next time she cheats, she will use all the learned lessons to make sure you dont find out...keep her cake and eat it to...

people who cheat and risk their families do NOT change...can NOT change...they might polish up their act and be able to live a lie, but they are still the same person who took another man inside her and lied about it to the person with whom she exchanged vows and had children with...meh...they aint worth a second chance...:rofl:


----------



## SF-FAN

carmen ohio said:


> Dear SF-FAN,
> 
> There is a wealth of information available on the Internet to help guys meet girls. Some of it is pretty crass but there is also a lot of good advice out there. One site you might want to check out is Good Looking Loser – Hardcore Self-Improvement Community. And it certainly wouldn't hurt to read _"Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011"_ by Athol Kay (I recommended this book in my last post on your previous thread).
> 
> The basic message is pretty simple: look sharp, exude confidence and *don't fear being rejected* (it's part of the universal male experience). The more you interact with women, the better you get at it, so don't give up.
> 
> Happy hunting.


Thanks, I will check out the link and read the book this time around. I do have a fear of rejection because DDay is still very recent. I felt like the woman I thought cared about me basically rejected me in the worst way so now when I talk to a girl just to converse, I feel like a desperate guy looking for attention....

I have to stop thinking like that and see that I am a decent looking guy with a good job, and nice upside. I also have to stop feeling like I have to meet someone now to take her place!


----------



## SF-FAN

missthelove2013 said:


> that is delusional
> She ALREADY IS the person she really is...at best MC/IC and R can make her temporarily act like the person SHE thinks YOU want her to be...key word is temporarily...
> 
> next time she cheats, she will use all the learned lessons to make sure you dont find out...keep her cake and eat it to...
> 
> people who cheat and risk their families do NOT change...can NOT change...they might polish up their act and be able to live a lie, but they are still the same person who took another man inside her and lied about it to the person with whom she exchanged vows and had children with...meh...they aint worth a second chance...:rofl:


That's not happening so it's a moot point.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> It will take a bit of time. I recommend the whyeme thread for a reason.





tom67 said:


> Read MMSLP if you have questions ask them.


Where can I find those?


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> Where can I find those?


The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## weightlifter

The thread in question.

I see a lot of you in him. Read the whole thing. Its a painful journey but I will leave with a half spoiler: 
One of his posts is in my signature.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/109002-there-any-point.html


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks, I will check out the link and read the book this time around. I do have a fear of rejection because DDay is still very recent. I felt like the woman I thought cared about me basically rejected me in the worst way so now when I talk to a girl just to converse, I feel like a desperate guy looking for attention....
> 
> 
> 
> I have to stop thinking like that and see that I am a decent looking guy with a good job, and nice upside. I also have to stop feeling like I have to meet someone now to take her place!



It sucks. I'll be straight up honest with you. She did reject you. In the worst way. Sucks. SUCKS. 

You know what? Rejection is a part of life. Instead of fearing it, you need to embrace it. Like I said before think of it as being set free. When your wife did this, she freed you up to find something better. When a woman shows no interest, she is giving you a chance at a better woman. Take every rejection as information. Not bad, not good. Take it for the next one as "what did I learn?"


----------



## SF-FAN

I've downloaded the Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 and have briefly skimmed it. What's funny is that even though I do have the "poor me" mentality, I have moved on in a sense because I am moving into a great new house in a better neighborhood, and with the 180, it is arousing her suspicion. I do work out and and have moved on slowly but still feel pain just try my hardest not to let her see it. I have had weak moments but am trying hard to do the 180 for my detachment.

What I also find funny is that she does have moments of weakness or whatever they may be because she will also send me texts that she misses me and still loves me...I know, I know, it's BS and she just wants try to "keep" me around.


----------



## weightlifter

Dont be
Plan B


----------



## just got it 55

^^^^^ Yup

Easy way to stop that is to just tell her

Stop trying to keep me hanging

I won't be 2nd choice to anybody

55


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Dont be
> Plan B





just got it 55 said:


> ^^^^^ Yup
> 
> Easy way to stop that is to just tell her
> 
> Stop trying to keep me ganging
> 
> I won't be 2nd choice to anybody
> 
> 55


That's why I am keeping the 180. She acts like it doesn't bother her but I know it does. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Not going to happen. Looking forward to moving out to a nicer newer house for my kids, and I know she hates that I am doing that. She expected me to stay in our sub-par small home. Ha, I am moving onto bigger better things!


----------



## kenmoore14217

"but I think from now on I am just going to chit chat and be done with it. If they appear very interested then maybe I'll ask for their info but that won't be my goal."

Truth is they will ask for yours, that's how you will know.


----------



## 2asdf2

missthelove2013 said:


> that is delusional
> She ALREADY IS the person she really is...at best MC/IC and R can make her temporarily act like the person SHE thinks YOU want her to be...key word is temporarily...
> 
> next time she cheats, she will use all the learned lessons to make sure you dont find out...keep her cake and eat it to...
> 
> *people who cheat and risk their families do NOT change...can NOT change...they might polish up their act and be able to live a lie, but they are still the same person* who took another man inside her and lied about it to the person with whom she exchanged vows and had children with...meh...they aint worth a second chance...:rofl:


That is an overly broad generalization.


----------



## alte Dame

I know it sounds corny, but you need time to create good memories that don't involve her at all, memories of your new life. 

My H has at least two close friends who had very bad marriages and finally divorced their wives. They both were sad sacks for a while, but it didn't take long for them to tell people that they hadn't realized how unhappy they were until they were single and free.

You were single and independent before you met your WW. You don't need her to survive. In fact, one could make a credible case that she is dangerous to your health.

And...if she is ticked by your move into a bigger house in a better neighborhood, just wait to hear her reaction when you pass the bar and become a GREAT catch to the millions of nice women who would deserve you.

Forward focus. You can't change your past but you can shape your future.


----------



## just got it 55

SF-FAN said:


> That's why I am keeping the 180. She acts like it doesn't bother her but I know it does. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Not going to happen. Looking forward to moving out to a nicer newer house for my kids, and I know she hates that I am doing that. She expected me to stay in our sub-par small home.* Ha, I am moving onto bigger better things*!


And leaving her behind

Fixed that

55


----------



## terrence4159

ok SF fan i was so you 9 years ago it is scary. i only pop into this site from time to time because to be honest i see people making the same dumb decisions i made when my xwife was cheating on me 9 years ago makes me sick. i was the spitting image of you and damn was i pathetic. 

this roller coaster ride you are on will stop one day. my xw was married to the guy she was cheating on before the ink dried on our D and we had a 9 month old son (heck yeah i did a dna test) one day i woke up after months of being lied to dragged around and given crumbs of hope to hold on to like you are. the day i woke up i filed for a D and got her name tattoed on my back in a knife handle sticking out of my back (see avatar pict) that ended all the maybe talk from her.

9 years later she is in a living hell living off the state out of one of her grandmas houses never having any money with the same guy........with NO freedom. she cant go anywhere without him or talk on the phone unless he knows who it is (i love her misery i know its wrong but i do) 

i didnt date for 2 years after a single father near 30 what woman would want that right. well i am remarried super happy have the kid during the week his mom only gets weekends (her choice we are the more stable house)

so NUT up man and drop her now no more maybe we can R talk its bs and she does not want that she is just keeping you on the hook. dont make me come down there and take your man card!!


----------



## treyvion

bfree said:


> She's cheating on you. She's NOT the best that you can get! Trust me!


True


----------



## LongWalk

Terrence,

What is that enormous fish on your profile page? Dämn, that's a lot of sushi.

SF Fan,

Your WW wants to cake eat because facing the rest of her life with three kids who have three different fathers is going to be rough. She has gone through two break ups before this latest round with you. Her soul has already been brutalized by this process. Her selfish genes have told her to have children with different men because there is evolutionary advantage in genetic variety.

Her genes failed to warn her to settle down and protect the relationship with the provider mate that you have been.

Given her history, it is not at all surprizing that her family are backing you. Their genes are also selfish. It has occurred to them that she will be a drain on their resources if she does not have a husband to ground her family economically. Sadly her family's disillusionment with her is also their prognosis: they don't believe she will fly right.

Luckily you didn't get the adoption of your step children through the legal system. This has turned out to be your leverage.

Interesting that she hasn't hassled you for money. This probably is just because she is disorganized mentally.

I am a big fan of reconcilation. However, I could not in good conscience urge you to give it thought. If she pops up with the idea and you are tempted, you can sit at her computer. Tell to give you the passwords to it and her telephone. Without giving her a chance to delete, you can go through her texts and messages. The result will probably convince you that her deceit is greater than you can tolerate.

Her having sex with POSOM is bothering you. Probably TAM posters recommend against it, but you can always give her a good banging, the rough sex kind.

Feel for your kids.

Your blog is inspiring. You are getting stronger.

What kind of law do you want to practice?


----------



## the guy

SF-FAN said:


> I am moving onto bigger better things!


So whats her name?


----------



## brokeneric

SF-FAN said:


> Ha, I am moving onto bigger better things!


Pardon me for asking, but how big?


----------



## SF-FAN

terrence4159 said:


> ok SF fan i was so you 9 years ago it is scary. i only pop into this site from time to time because to be honest i see people making the same dumb decisions i made when my xwife was cheating on me 9 years ago makes me sick. i was the spitting image of you and damn was i pathetic.
> 
> this roller coaster ride you are on will stop one day. my xw was married to the guy she was cheating on before the ink dried on our D and we had a 9 month old son (heck yeah i did a dna test) one day i woke up after months of being lied to dragged around and given crumbs of hope to hold on to like you are. the day i woke up i filed for a D and got her name tattoed on my back in a knife handle sticking out of my back (see avatar pict) that ended all the maybe talk from her.
> 
> 9 years later she is in a living hell living off the state out of one of her grandmas houses never having any money with the same guy........with NO freedom. she cant go anywhere without him or talk on the phone unless he knows who it is (i love her misery i know its wrong but i do)
> 
> i didnt date for 2 years after a single father near 30 what woman would want that right. well i am remarried super happy have the kid during the week his mom only gets weekends (her choice we are the more stable house)
> 
> so NUT up man and drop her now no more maybe we can R talk its bs and she does not want that she is just keeping you on the hook. dont make me come down there and take your man card!!


I thank you for the advice but I think you missed the post that said R is not happening. I am moving on but have setbacks when I think of her with the POSOM. Like tonight, I have the kids and its nice but once the kids go to sleep I know I'll have trouble getting to sleep thinking about if the POSOM is at her appt. 

That's what I have trouble with.


----------



## SF-FAN

the guy said:


> So whats her name?





brokeneric said:


> Pardon me for asking, but how big?


Ha! Not like hat but I wish.


----------



## happyman64

SF

Read your first post.

Just look at how far you have come so fast.

Good things will happen for you.

Stop thinking of her and him together.

They have nothing to do with your future.

Only look forward.

HM


----------



## SF-FAN

happyman64 said:


> SF
> 
> Read your first post.
> 
> Just look at how far you have come so fast.
> 
> Good things will happen for you.
> 
> Stop thinking of her and him together.
> 
> They have nothing to do with your future.
> 
> Only look forward.
> 
> HM


You're right. It's just hard getting the mind movies out of my head.


----------



## lordmayhem

SF-FAN said:


> You're right. It's just hard getting the mind movies out of my head.


The legendary morituri once said that he used this technique: Imagine them wearing clown suits, or at least imagine the OM wearing a clown suit. He says it helped him. I don't know if it really works, but see if that helps.


----------



## SF-FAN

lordmayhem said:


> The legendary morituri once said that he used this technique: Imagine them wearing clown suits, or at least imagine the OM wearing a clown suit. He says it helped him. I don't know if it really works, but see if that helps.


One thing that has somewhat worked for me (a little) is picturing an ugly expression she makes while concentrating. I picture her making that face while them being together and it kind of disgusts me because its a total turnoff.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> One thing that has somewhat worked for me (a little) is picturing an ugly expression she makes while concentrating. I picture her making that face while them being together and it kind of disgusts me because its a total turnoff.


Let me ask you a question if its not too hard to answer. How do you peg yourself next to OM? is better looking? more successful?? has POSWW made comments indicating that he is better in bed (as if that really matters). Im just trying to get your frame of mind here so i keep trying to talk you up. 

Also, I think i asked you before, but did you reply about the SF fan tag? you a giants/niners fan? or does it mean something completely different?


----------



## Squeakr

lordmayhem said:


> The legendary morituri once said that he used this technique: Imagine them wearing clown suits, or at least imagine the OM wearing a clown suit. He says it helped him. I don't know if it really works, but see if that helps.


Just brought this to mind from Family Guy: family guy clown porn - YouTube


----------



## Chaparral

happi_g_more2 said:


> Let me ask you a question if its not too hard to answer. How do you peg yourself next to OM? is better looking? more successful?? has POSWW made comments indicating that he is better in bed (as if that really matters). Im just trying to get your frame of mind here so i keep trying to talk you up.
> 
> Also, I think i asked you before, but did you reply about the SF fan tag? you a giants/niners fan? or does it mean something completely different?


If you took a mint '65 Vette to an auto dealer and they told you what a rag it was would you listen? Consider the source, a lying backstabbing cheater that wants to hurt you. All you need to know about the OM is that he bangs married women, i.e. he's immoral and no one on their right mind has anything to do with him. Sure, he may have pals just like him but who cares.


----------



## happi_g_more2

Chaparral said:


> If you took a mint '65 Vette to an auto dealer and they told you what a rag it was would you listen? Consider the source, a lying backstabbing cheater that wants to hurt you. All you need to know about the OM is that he bangs married women, i.e. he's immoral and no one on their right mind has anything to do with him. Sure, he may have pals just like him but who cares.


I dont really agree with the analogy. If my wife left me for a millionaire underwear model with a 9 inch pecker, a non profit company that helps feed hungry kids around the world and I could really tell how in love they were, I think I would have a hard time building my self confidence back. We can throw out all the cliche we want, but in the end, that would be one tough road to hoe. However, if shes ****ing some dirtbag looser living in his moms basement and I get the sense that she is only sleeping with him cause she is going through some kind of life crisis, then I think I could move on a lot easier. Im just trying to see if SF can view himself as the better man.


----------



## Squeakr

happi_g_more2 said:


> I dont really agree with the analogy. If my wife left me for a millionaire underwear model with a 9 inch pecker, a non profit company that helps feed hungry kids around the world and I could really tell how in love they were, I think I would have a hard time building my self confidence back. We can throw out all the cliche we want, but in the end, that would be one tough road to hoe. However, if shes ****ing some dirtbag looser living in his moms basement and I get the sense that she is only sleeping with him cause she is going through some kind of life crisis, then I think I could move on a lot easier. Im just trying to see if SF can view himself as the better man.


All the analogy is really saying is to view the source of the information (in his case the auto dealer that will tell you your car is crap because they don't want to admit the truth about things and get out with minimal damage).


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> Let me ask you a question if its not too hard to answer. How do you peg yourself next to OM? is better looking? more successful?? has POSWW made comments indicating that he is better in bed (as if that really matters). Im just trying to get your frame of mind here so i keep trying to talk you up.
> 
> Also, I think i asked you before, but did you reply about the SF fan tag? you a giants/niners fan? or does it mean something completely different?


Without being biased, he is a normal looking guy. My height or possibly shorter and I'm only 5'7". He is a chef/cook that doesn't make a ton of money and is not going to school or anything to gain earning power. He drives a POS older car. If I was a woman, side by side, I'd say I am a way better catch.

Yes, I am from SF so I like both the 49ers and Giants.


----------



## SF-FAN

Her cheating has nothing to do with me and everything to do with her broken self. Even she said the the POSOM is not someone she'd ever leave me for (which I'm not sure if it should make me feel better or not), but either way she knows she has issues. So she found some POS that has no morals and probably similar issues.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Without being biased, he is a normal looking guy. My height or possibly shorter and I'm only 5'7". He is a chef/cook that doesn't make a ton of money and is not going to school or anything to gain earning power. He drives a POS older car. If I was a woman, side by side, I'd say I am a way better catch.
> 
> Yes, I am from SF so I like both the 49ers and Giants.


Except she just wants him for fun and nothing else. He is single and without kids in tow, so from the fun factor, he is the better catch. Even though they talk about it during the A, most women aren't thinking about the future when they take on a OM, just the here and now and not the long term.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Her cheating has nothing to do with me and everything to do with her broken self. Even she said the the POSOM is not someone she'd ever leave me for (which I'm not sure if it should make me feel better or not), but either way she knows she has issues. So she found some POS that has no morals and probably similar issues.


I think these are all great things to build off of (that includes being a giants fan . So as you go through your time of healing and planning SF-FAN 2.0, just keep reminding yourself of this. You are better, she is broken, POSOM really IS someone SHE would leave you for. Maybe other women wouldn't, she sure as hell would. I'm not in your shoes, and haven't been. I know its easy for me spew advice sitting behind a computer anonymously. But I just think that the sooner you come to grips with the fact that you are 1 of the millions of divorced men in the world with POS crazy ex wife, the sooner you can achieve SF-Fan 2.0 and meet "Mrs SF-Fan the second". Just keep trudging brother!


----------



## LongWalk

SF-FAN said:


> Her cheating has nothing to do with me and everything to do with her broken self. Even she said the the POSOM is not someone she'd ever leave me for (which I'm not sure if it should make me feel better or not), but either way she knows she has issues. So she found some POS that has no morals and probably similar issues.


:lol:

If you can laugh about the pain and madness, you will survive and come out on top. 

Her sex ranking has not soared in your eyes because her POS boyfriend doesn't offer much... maybe he makes a mean grilled cheese sandwich or something.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> :lol:
> 
> If you can laugh about the pain and madness, you will survive and come out on top.
> 
> Her sex ranking has not soared in your eyes because her POS boyfriend doesn't offer much... maybe he makes a mean grilled cheese sandwich or something.


Oh yeah grilled cheese.
SF you need a night out with a woman to get your "mojo" back get my drift?
Like the nike commercial just do it.


----------



## weightlifter

Imho one success for him will break this logjam.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Imho one success for him will break this logjam.


I agree with you!


----------



## weightlifter

I swear to heaven above. A woman can smell that you missed the last one.

Keep at it. Be confident. Get inside some new social circles.

I forget you have kids?


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> I swear to heaven above. A woman can smell that you missed the last one.
> 
> Keep at it. Be confident. Get inside some new social circles.
> 
> I forget you have kids?


Yes, I do have kids. 

Right now things have been decent. Not great but not bad. I still have my down days but what's causing the issues is her family and mine. Everyone is pissed at her but we're basically getting pressure to work things out for the kids. I'm grateful to everyone that wants that to happen but it's causing more inner turmoil for me than anything. I wish people would mind their own business and quit telling me what she is doing, what she is and how I shouldn't let her treat me.


----------



## Chaparral

If your family is trying to get you to reconcile does that mean she wants to?


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Yes, I do have kids.
> 
> Right now things have been decent. Not great but not bad. I still have my down days but what's causing the issues is her family and mine. Everyone is pissed at her but we're basically getting pressure to work things out for the kids. I'm grateful to everyone that wants that to happen but it's causing more inner turmoil for me than anything. I wish people would mind their own business and quit telling me what she is doing, what she is and how I shouldn't let her treat me.


You REALLY need to start telling your family members what you just said above. If it were my family, I would tell my mom "hey, thanks for the support, but you have to back off a bit. When it comes to this situation, let me call you to talk, not the other way around. and when I do talk, just listen." I know word would get around my family quickly to ease up a bit.


----------



## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> If your family is trying to get you to reconcile does that mean she wants to?


My family doesn't talk to her.



happi_g_more2 said:


> You REALLY need to start telling your family members what you just said above. If it were my family, I would tell my mom "hey, thanks for the support, but you have to back off a bit. When it comes to this situation, let me call you to talk, not the other way around. and when I do talk, just listen." I know word would get around my family quickly to ease up a bit.


This morning my mom gave me the third degree about not letting her treat me bad and to make sure she doesn't leave the kids with me so she can go out, etc. I think her mom or sister called my mom and put a bunch of things in her head. BTW my WW's family hates her right now. They are not even on speaking terms. I need to tell them to back off.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> My family doesn't talk to her.
> 
> 
> 
> This morning my mom gave me the third degree about not letting her treat me bad and to make sure she doesn't leave the kids with me so she can go out, etc. I think her mom or sister called my mom and put a bunch of things in her head. BTW my WW's family hates her right now. They are not even on speaking terms. I need to tell them to back off.


Just dont loose your allies in doing so. Just tell them that this is really hard and, although you appreciate the support, you need only positive vibes


----------



## Squeakr

I would let it be between her family and her. That is their relationship and they can handle it as they see fit. She needs to face the consequences of her actions and stop having you as her protector. She released you from that role, and I would tell them that possibly like so: " I don't want to hear about your issues and please stop including me in them, as she is your daughter/sister and made her choice and as of right now it was not me. This is her doing and the issues you have are between you and her and I am not the mediator."

Time to let them be and cut yourself free. She can then see the consequences of her actions. With them hounding you and you becoming the guardian, you are taking part. Remove yourself from this and you'll feel better.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> Just dont loose your allies in doing so. Just tell them that this is really hard and, although you appreciate the support, you need only positive vibes


That's true. I'm going to have to do it in a non aggressive manner. As if just the pain of the A and separation isn't enough.


----------



## mahike

You accomplished one of the goals. You have the people you are dealing with aware of the REAL issues and not what your WW is telling them.

They also are still hoping for an R. Just let them know the kids are first with you


----------



## SF-FAN

mahike said:


> You accomplished one of the goals. You have the people you are dealing with aware of the REAL issues and not what your WW is telling them.
> 
> They also are still hoping for an R. Just let them know the kids are first with you


As much as they want the kids to be put first, they don't want me to have them more than she does. They know that when I have them she'll be doing what she wants as a single woman and they don't want her to have that freedom. They want her to really feel like a single mom without help from anyone.


----------



## SF-FAN

Ok so as far as facebook goes, I have zero luck just striking up a conversation with women. And this is just a "hi how are you" type of convo, not a "let's go out" convo. All I am looking for is for a girl to have a friendly conversation back and what I get is a very short message and or nothing at all AND sometimes they unfriend me - WTF??

I really don't get it, if this is how the dating scene is going to be then I don't think I want it!


----------



## Rubicon

Ya, Facebook is not a dating site and when you treat it as such you creep people out.

Join plenty of fish or something like that if you want to meet girls for dating on the internet.

If you really want to meet someone, join a cooking class. There are lots of single ladies taking classes like these and lots of other stuff (pottery, yoga, painting, Computers, etc... Pick something you like.) you get to meet them and already have a common topic to talk about. It is easy to say "lets grab a coffee/drink" to anyone you talk to in class that shows interest in you.

Plus it gets you out of the house and your mind off the Ex.

Good luck SF, we're rooting for you.


----------



## SF-FAN

Rubicon said:


> Ya, Facebook is not a dating site and when you treat it as such you creep people out.
> 
> Join plenty of fish or something like that if you want to meet girls for dating on the internet.
> 
> If you really want to meet someone, join a cooking class. There are lots of single ladies taking classes like these and lots of other stuff (pottery, yoga, painting, Computers, etc... Pick something you like.) you get to meet them and already have a common topic to talk about. It is easy to say "lets grab a coffee/drink" to anyone you talk to in class that shows interest in you.
> 
> Plus it gets you out of the house and your mind off the Ex.
> 
> Good luck SF, we're rooting for you.


Thanks, yeah I am ready to close my FB account altogether. Geez, you'd think I am a registered sex offender or something. And these are single girls I am messaging "Hi" to and not in a relationship. Oh well, I'm not a stalker so I just move on but pretty discouraging. I'm trying the face-to-face approach from now on because at least I can see if they show interest...


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> That's true. I'm going to have to do it in a non aggressive manner. As if just the pain of the A and separation isn't enough.



The only person who can judge your actions is you. Period. Tell your family "thanks for the support but this is personal business"

You have every right to tell people to go pound salt if they are making you uncomfortable.


----------



## bigfoot

Okay, here is some dating advice, that has proven successful. First, remember that you have been out of the game for a while, so your skills are out dated. Secondly, when you think that you are being smooth, or sincere, or whatever you think the ladies want, you are wrong. Just like an old athlete, your mind is willing, but the skills are gone. Now, let's move on to how to get you a date.

1. Stay in your league. Look for the female version of you. You just want to get in the game. You need to re-learn to talk to women who are not your wife. Actually, you need to relearn how to talk in a non-platonic way to women, even if it leads nowhere. Rule: at the date or whatever it is, ask about them, tell them it is fascinating, agree with their assessment of whatever situation they tell you about. End the date with, "I had fun, I have not done this in a while, so if you want to do it again, give me a call because I would like that."(touch her briefly and lightly on the arm when you say that). Listen and learn about women from women, every date is recon.

2. Get a wing man/woman. You need someone else to see if you are just coming on like a desperate butt head. Are you moving too fast, are you missing clues, are you weird, etc. You need someone to give you a post game review. Preferably not some non dating no girl getting guy like yourself. That is not an insult, it is a fact, for now. Don't argue with them, just listen and adjust. In time, you will bet your game back.

3. Just talk to a woman you regularly see. Give them a "hello", and some short small talk. When you see her again, do the same and end it with nice seeing you again. Maybe make some funny observation, but only if you have been told by others that you are funny. This way, she laughs and that reduces barriers. Third time, ask her for a cup of coffee or something that is short and quick and not a full date. Don't mention your past relationship. Ask about her, as described earlier.

4. hang out with some women friends or female work mates. Get a couple of people to go out for a drink. Have fun, tell a joke or whatever, and then briefly mention that you had forgotten how much fun hanging out was as you casually make sure your ring finger is exposed to show that you don't have a ring on. If your relationship comes up, tell them, briefly, it's over and you just need to get out and have fun. Women will mark you available for them or a friend. Your looks mean little to women looking for companionship or want some male attention. Believe me. They have insecurities just like men. Remember, this is not to lead to long term stuff yet. You have some personal healing to do. Short term only. Think short term. Think end on a good note. When they talk about you, other women are taking notes to see if they want to give you a spin. 

5. Online stuff is odd. Women pretend to be younger, thinner, prettier, etc. Men do the same. You can find a woman that way, but use the dating sites not FB. 

6. Keep FB and link up with old classmates, etc. Maybe set up a mini reunion with some locals at a pub, just to reconnect, not for dating. They may know someone that would be a good date for you when you casually mention that you are no longer married. Don't go into a long story, just sum it up with it was shocking, it was bad, and it is over. Female classmates and wives of men will note you are available. Mention that you are looking to hang out and have fun. 

7. Remember, you are used to a relationship, but now this is about short term hanging out. Believe me, some woman is going to want to date you and / or get a little "stress relief" with you, if you know what I mean. Go only as far as she suggests and don't push it. If she wants some "stress relief" and you cannot rise to the occasion, remember you have fingers and a mouth. use them where you feel comfortable, but do not leave her unsatisfied. TRUST ME, you ring that bell for her no matter how long it takes and good things will come your way. 

You are just getting in the game, not trying to win the whole thing, just a few minutes of play time until you get back in shape to start.


----------



## LongWalk

You can hook up with women on Facebook but not by approaching them directly. If you like a particular band and you like an event or something, you may chat with some people in thread on the page. You can become friendly but should not broach dating or meeting in person, until after you FB friend them based on interest. It should be very laid back. The moment women get the vibe that you chasing, it can kill everything.

"Do you want to go dinner and the movie with me (and have sex afterwards?"

"No, I am busy then."

"You like this band? Wow, I got free tickets (you gave them to yourself as gift because you are treating yourself right these days: you are your own best friend) to see them this Saturday. I was trying to think of which of my friends would appreciate it. Say, do you want to go, too?"

If she says, yes, then you just add in: "Lets grab a bit to eat at 6:00 and then go."

Of course a key thing is keeping anxiety and uncertainty out of your voice. 

But just practice talking with women with who you have no special romantic ambitions.

Facebook is actually a good place to study interaction.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> Ok so as far as facebook goes, I have zero luck just striking up a conversation with women. And this is just a "hi how are you" type of convo, not a "let's go out" convo. All I am looking for is for a girl to have a friendly conversation back and what I get is a very short message and or nothing at all AND sometimes they unfriend me - WTF??
> 
> I really don't get it, if this is how the dating scene is going to be then I don't think I want it!


i would feel a little creeped out if some guy i hadn't talked to in a while started chatting me up on FB.

i like rubicon's ideas. and taking the kids out places where there will be other, hopefully single, moms around might be good too.


----------



## weightlifter

Get into social circles. Do house parties. Social circles get you guy friends. Guy friends have girl friends. Those girl friends have single friends. Let them see you being a cool dad. Women take mental notes CONSTANTLY. You are aiming for single moms a bit younger than you, not 22 year old single girls. Sorry you are not poster Disenchanted. Almost none of us are.

Dont do the FB thing. Do match or another similar.


----------



## SF-FAN

Ok so another wrench just got thrown in my detachment plans. The WW called all pissed off because apparently someone from her family went off on her and then included me so needless to say she got me all riled up and hung up on me. Now I'm pissed the heck off and wanting to tell her off but she won't answer her phone. I'm climbing the walls with anger...WTH do I do?


----------



## MovingAhead

Take the high road and go to the gym and beat the living hell out of the heavy bag. Don't wear gloves unless you make sure they match your purse and let your knuckles bleed a little to get rough. Then next time you can wear gloves.

When in doubt take the high road. Don't say anything, because whatever you say in anger will be thrown back at you, probably in court and do the right thing. Go to the gym.

You want to meet girls, go to meet ups. Go hiking, go to museums, go on tours. On line dating...

This isn't a time for dating really. Be the best you and the best dad you can be. It will pay dividends. Trust me on this.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SF-FAN said:


> Ok so another wrench just got thrown in my detachment plans. The WW called all pissed off because apparently someone from her family went off on her and then included me so needless to say she got me all riled up and hung up on me. Now I'm pissed the heck off and wanting to tell her off but she won't answer her phone. I'm climbing the walls with anger...WTH do I do?


Well, I wouldn't leave a voice mail, or text. Not while your p!ssed.

I'd write down what she said. Then jot notes on what your responses would have been if you had the time to respond before she hung up.

When she brings it up again, you'll have thought out, calm, answers. The cooler and calmer you stay, the more it'll p!ss her off.


----------



## GusPolinski

Var.

Var. Var. Var. Var. Var.


----------



## the guy

I'm sorry you can't find the indifference your old lady deserved ....what the phuck are you still doing letting this chick have control over YOUR emotions.

Can you get any more bête?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cool12

why did you answer the phone?
let her leave a VM and then you decide if you want to talk to her or not. she's manipulating you and you're letting her.


who cares if she's pissed off at you? she's a liar and she left you. for your sanity's sake, let her go.


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> Ok so another wrench just got thrown in my detachment plans. The WW called all pissed off because apparently someone from her family went off on her and then included me so needless to say she got me all riled up and hung up on me. Now I'm pissed the heck off and wanting to tell her off but she won't answer her phone. I'm climbing the walls with anger...WTH do I do?



A previous poster said it. Detach from her emotions. Only you are allowed to judge your actions.

I'll tell you a story. My MIL was over the house. I had my son doing something for me and he was coming to me to finish it. My MIL is like a bull in a china shop when she wants something. So she started to stop him to do something for her. I politely said 2 times "MIL he's doing something let him be until he finishes." Never heard me. So I had to yell "MIL STOP! Leave him alone"

Well my SIL calls my wife and starts a getting all pissy. "How can he treat mom that way. Blah blah blah." 

My wife starts back at me. "How's that supposed to make me look?!?" Not knowing the full story. My answer? "I don't give a crap what any of them think. Your Mom wasn't listening and I took care of it. If she or anyone else has a problem I'm open." 

You know what? No one ever came to me. They were just trying to be passive aggressive.

Say the same thing "if anyone wants to talk to me about my actions, I'm open to it." I guarantee no one will call.


----------



## SF-FAN

the guy said:


> I'm sorry you can't find the indifference your old lady deserved ....what the phuck are you still doing letting this chick have control over YOUR emotions.
> 
> Can you get any more bête?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because I had the kids and she was going to pick them up. That's all it's been, I've otherwise been cold doing the 180 with her so I did not foresee it would be anything different this time.


----------



## SF-FAN

It's a really tough situation right now because of the kids and the in-laws wanting to see them but being pissed off at my WW so I get put in the middle. Their family is used to arguing, fighting, calling each other names, etc. while I was brought up and am more used to a quieter more civil manner of discussing things. 

I've been doing somewhat o.k. but now her family is causing new issues. Like a previous poster said, I can't burn my bridges but at the same time, I have to look out for myself and the kids.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> It's a really tough situation right now because of the kids and the in-laws wanting to see them but being pissed off at my WW so I get put in the middle. Their family is used to arguing, fighting, calling each other names, etc. while I was brought up and am more used to a quieter more civil manner of discussing things.
> 
> I've been doing somewhat o.k. but now her family is causing new issues. Like a previous poster said, I can't burn my bridges but at the same time, I have to look out for myself and the kids.


Being in california, this is just another ****ty layer of the mess you are in. Unfortunately, grandparents have rights. Ive never understood the concept, but oh well. If you try and cut them out, they can petition for visitation. You dont want to deal with that. Like you said, continue with the 180. Completely igore your wife. Deal with the inlaws directly. If you can, try and explain to them that, you are essentially a single parent now and its difficult. You definitely want them in the kids lives, but until some of the wounds heal, if maybe they could give you some space. Just a little


----------



## Rubicon

Let me know if I got this wrong, but you are saying her family was giving her crap and threw it in her face what she has done to you so this pissed her off and she called you to give you crap? Is that right?

If so, just tell her to go vent to her boyfriend, your not hers to complain to anymore. She moved out and you not longer have to put up with her crap. And then hang up.

You get along with her family right? So deal with them directly on some access to the kids when you have them and cut her right out of the picture.

Why be angry about any of it, she fought with her family and they stuck up for you and she hated it.... Good. Why are you angry? Move along, nothing to see here folks.... Tell her directly to be civil with you or just hang up on her and don't take her calls unless she has herself under control.

Re-read Cool12's last post. That says it all.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> Being in california, this is just another ****ty layer of the mess you are in. Unfortunately, grandparents have rights. Ive never understood the concept, but oh well. If you try and cut them out, they can petition for visitation. You dont want to deal with that. Like you said, continue with the 180. Completely igore your wife. Deal with the inlaws directly. If you can, try and explain to them that, you are essentially a single parent now and its difficult. You definitely want them in the kids lives, but until some of the wounds heal, if maybe they could give you some space. Just a little


Well you have to remember that I only have rights to 1 of the kids therefore, I can't legally let them go with their grandparents if they are with me. I am doing the 180 but also have to tread lightly because the WW is not asking for support YET. If I do something to upset the balance, I can get screwed big time. It's a mess right now and adds another layer of crap, like you said.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Well you have to remember that I only have rights to 1 of the kids therefore, I can't legally let them go with their grandparents if they are with me. I am doing the 180 but also have to tread lightly because the WW is not asking for support YET. If I do something to upset the balance, I can get screwed big time. It's a mess right now and adds another layer of crap, like you said.


sorry i havent been able to keep up with all the details. WW doesnt sound like a woman thats just going to ride into the sunset with OM and leave you with no financial obligation. Sounds like she is going to ride this out indefinitely and then come after you. I could be wrong though.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> sorry i havent been able to keep up with all the details. WW doesnt sound like a woman thats just going to ride into the sunset with OM and leave you with no financial obligation. Sounds like she is going to ride this out indefinitely and then come after you. I could be wrong though.


That's the weird part, she doesn't have a history of going after her ex's financially. Also the way her family is giving her crap, and the fact that I told her I don't want that POS anywhere around the kids, her and the POSOM would not have a calm life together so their relationship is not something that will likely last. We live in a very small community so even though she won't be shunned, her reputation would be severely affected if she continued with him in the open. She doesn't want that. She's doing damage control as it is.


----------



## cool12

never mind


----------



## SF-FAN

She's struggling to attempt to get some part of the life she knew before where everyone stuck up for her. No one is on her side so she's angry about it and trying to take it out on me. Im trying hard to do the 180 but have my relapses.


----------



## larry.gray

What is the kid and custody story? One or two is yours, the other(s) is/are step kids? You're watching your STBX step children while she has her love romps?


----------



## LongWalk

Seems so, Larry.

Mach's theories about mating strategy from an evolutionary point of view find another case to point.

Sadly the step kids only know one man as dad, SF Fan.

So her family has little tolerance for the call of the wild to her ovaries.


----------



## illwill

Assume you will be supporting her financially. Dont let that stop you from the 180.


----------



## weightlifter

larry.gray said:


> What is the kid and custody story? One or two is yours, the other(s) is/are step kids? You're watching your STBX step children while she has her love romps?


Too bad for two reasons.
1) He seems like an awesome dad.
2) Kids for him will work like puppies in the park for attracting a pretty smart loyal single mom.


----------



## SF-FAN

larry.gray said:


> What is the kid and custody story? One or two is yours, the other(s) is/are step kids? You're watching your STBX step children while she has her love romps?





LongWalk said:


> Seems so, Larry.
> 
> Mach's theories about mating strategy from an evolutionary point of view find another case to point.
> 
> Sadly the step kids only know one man as dad, SF Fan.
> 
> So her family has little tolerance for the call of the wild to her ovaries.


Out of the 3, only one is biologically mine but yes the other 2 don't have their fathers in the picture so I am dad. We have split them 1 week her and 1 week me but the oldest which just turned 13 and is a girl starting to get the monthly visits from mother nature stays the night with her full-time and only stays with me while WW is at school or work.

No, I am not financially supporting the WW in anyway right now. When the kids are with her, she buys them what they need and when they are with me, I buy them what they need.


----------



## SF-FAN

I was thinking last night about the whole Alpha Beta thing because I have been reading the Married Man Sex Life Primer and I recall I used to be a big time Alpha. Not a womanizer or anything like that but did not have a problem getting girls. Grant it that was over 15 years ago but nevertheless I did. What changed? If anything, I am more financially stable, more refined (as far as looks), and overall a better package. 

I didn't have kids or a wife then but I am the same or better person now. I need to figure out how to be that Alpha again.


----------



## Lovemytruck

SF-FAN said:


> ...I need to figure out how to be that Alpha again.


Work on it a little each day. Go where you can see women that might have potential. Start with a smile and a gaze. Your game will return.


----------



## alte Dame

I think it's confidence, SF. The way you describe yourself reminds me of my son & I've watched him sway back and forth in life in terms of his self-confidence and self-image. When he's relaxed and confident, the women gravitate to him. The other externals are always the same - educated, good looks, good career, respectful, decent - but when something happens to chip away at the confidence, those things seem not to carry the day.


----------



## SF-FAN

alte Dame said:


> I think it's confidence, SF. The way you describe yourself reminds me of my son & I've watched him sway back and forth in life in terms of his self-confidence and self-image. When he's relaxed and confident, the women gravitate to him. The other externals are always the same - educated, good looks, good career, respectful, decent - but when something happens to chip away at the confidence, those things seem not to carry the day.


It's also the fact of not having "Oneitis" and I have it and am trying to detach from it. When you become so attached to someone because you think you will be with them forever, it is easy to get Oneitis and only have eyes for them. The book is really helpful. 

You're right though...confidence makes a big difference. Oh also, when I am with someone that I love and whom I believe truly loves me, I do treat them like a queen...I have to not do that anymore. That puts me into Beta status right away.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> It's also the fact of not having "Oneitis" and I have it and am trying to detach from it. When you become so attached to someone because you think you will be with them forever, it is easy to get Oneitis and only have eyes for them. The book is really helpful.
> 
> You're right though...confidence makes a big difference. Oh also, when I am with someone that I love and whom I believe truly loves me, I do treat them like a queen...I have to not do that anymore. That puts me into Beta status right away.


I havent read MMSLP, does it tell you that? Cause I feel there is a way to do both. My wife is treated like a queen until she starts acting like a queen....then the king steps in and treats her like a surf.


----------



## BobSimmons

Alpha smalpha. Totally pointless and meaningless. Does meaning a mega alpha male automatically make you a leader or is it the qualities you possess to understand men or women, get them on side and motivate them to follow you to hell and back?

To me I walk in a room and there's some d*ck pretending to be an "alpha", talking over me, cutting me off or being disrespectful, he'll get the what for.

Don't be respected, don't take any disrespect, show any disrespect will be meet and deal with strongly but that you as in individual will show the same respect as is given to you.


----------



## alte Dame

You don't need to treat a woman like a queen. Just love and respect the person & act with some honor. I think if you do this, you can live with yourself, no matter what comes your way.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> I havent read MMSLP, does it tell you that? Cause I feel there is a way to do both. My wife is treated like a queen until she starts acting like a queen....then the king steps in and treats her like a surf.


It gives you examples of how to treat a women well but also how not to spoil her. Good read, I am still reading through it.



BobSimmons said:


> Alpha smalpha. Totally pointless and meaningless. Does meaning a mega alpha male automatically make you a leader or is it the qualities you possess to understand men or women, get them on side and motivate them to follow you to hell and back?
> 
> To me I walk in a room and there's some d*ck pretending to be an "alpha", talking over me, cutting me off or being disrespectful, he'll get the what for.
> 
> Don't be respected, don't take any disrespect, show any disrespect will be meet and deal with strongly but that you as in individual will show the same respect as is given to you.


Not Alpha in that way...Alpha in not letting your wife walk all over you. How to stand your ground but still be a good husband/provider so that she respects you.



alte Dame said:


> You don't need to treat a woman like a queen. Just love and respect the person & act with some honor. I think if you do this, you can live with yourself, no matter what comes your way.


Yeah, I go a little over board sometimes and I don't know why. That's something I have to fix. Both my parents are extremely generous people so maybe it's genetics, or my upbringing, not sure but I have to learn to stop being so giving.


----------



## SF-FAN

I do have a question because I have read conflicting advice on here about the WW and the POSOM's relationship. There's been advice to go cold and not give a f*ck about what they do and then there's been advice to be a roadblock in their relationship so they won't be happy...which is it?


----------



## badmemory

SF-FAN said:


> I do have a question because I have read conflicting advice on here about the WW and the POSOM's relationship. There's been advice to go cold and not give a f*ck about what they do and then there's been advice to be a roadblock in their relationship so they won't be happy...which is it?


Both. They can be done at the same time. The road blocking of their relationship is just a bonus.


----------



## happi_g_more2

badmemory said:


> Both. They can be done at the same time. The road blocking of their relationship is just a bonus.


Yup, both. In your case it sounds like you should completely ignore her with exception to dealing with the kids. No phone, no text, no conversations. thats the cold part. the roadblock being completely inflexible with your time with respect to helping her out so she can do stuff. Didnt you say at one point that you took the kids during a time when she was suppose to have them?


----------



## sandc

Just read through your thread. Wow. Sorry you are going through this. You should send a PM to bff. He went through a pretty heartbreaking D-day, catching his wife and best friend having had a 6 year long affair. Bff lives in SF and I'm sure would be glad to talk to you. You guys should see if you could have a drink some time. I live 80 miles east of you so if you do ever want to meet up some time and vent, I'm up for that.

Hang in there, better times are coming.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> Yup, both. In your case it sounds like you should completely ignore her with exception to dealing with the kids. No phone, no text, no conversations. thats the cold part. the roadblock being completely inflexible with your time with respect to helping her out so she can do stuff. Didnt you say at one point that you took the kids during a time when she was suppose to have them?


She keeps my daughter every night but I see her during the day. We swap the 2 younger ones every other week. I'm NOT watching the kids if it's not my time. She knows I won't.


----------



## happi_g_more2

so your daughter is staying with her when she has OM over?


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> so your daughter is staying with her when she has OM over?


I don't know what she does when my daughter is with her at night. I would hope she wouldn't be that despicable but who knows. My daughter would be devastated if she saw another guy at her home and she would tell me so my wife would be very stupid to risk it.

On top of that, everyone has my WW under a microscope right now tracking her every move so the affair might have been put on hold for a while or the physical interaction is very limited right now...who knows.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> I do have a question because I have read conflicting advice on here about the WW and the POSOM's relationship. There's been advice to go cold and not give a f*ck about what they do and then there's been advice to be a roadblock in their relationship so they won't be happy...which is it?


depends.
if there was any hope of R, i'd roadblock their rship.
if i knew it was too far gone i'd let her do wtf she wanted, keeping her in the fog, until i got what i wanted out of the D. this is what luvmyjava is attempting. i think it's best for your situation too.

once D is final, let it all go and do your best not to give a sh!t about what she's doing. onward and upwards!


----------



## weightlifter

This is high stakes poker.

Use her fog against her.

SF.... Coooommmmeeee toooo thhhhhhe daaaaarrrrrkkkkk. Sssiiidddde...


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> This is high stakes poker.
> 
> Use her fog against her.
> 
> SF.... Coooommmmeeee toooo thhhhhhe daaaaarrrrrkkkkk. Sssiiidddde...


Oh I'm about to go dark real dark but her family is trying to shake her out of it.


----------



## larry.gray

Did you adopt the kids?


----------



## SF-FAN

larry.gray said:


> Did you adopt the kids?


No I did not adopt the kids.


----------



## carmen ohio

SF-FAN said:


> I do have a question because I have read conflicting advice on here about the WW and the POSOM's relationship. There's been advice to go cold and not give a f*ck about what they do and then there's been advice to be a roadblock in their relationship so they won't be happy...which is it?





cool12 said:


> depends.
> if there was any hope of R, i'd roadblock their rship.
> if i knew it was too far gone i'd let her do wtf she wanted, keeping her in the fog, until i got what i wanted out of the D. this is what luvmyjava is attempting. i think it's best for your situation too.
> 
> once D is final, let it all go and do your best not to give a sh!t about what she's doing. onward and upwards!



SF-FAN,

Let me add a few things to cool 12's excellent response.

The purpose of the 180 is to prepare the BS for the future, be it with or without the WS. Therefore, the 180 can be used whether the desired outcome is R or not.

The purpose of trying to end the relationship between a WS and the OM is to pave the way for R (since there is little hope of R as long as the WS continues to cheat). There is no point in attempting this if the BS has no interest in R.

In your case, given your WW's history (e.g., three children by three different men) and her behavior towards you over the course of your marriare (two affairs, both denied and covered up), I can't imagine your wanting to R with her (she's just not marriage material). If this is the case, waste no effort on her or her activities. Instead, spend all of your time becoming a more confident, independent and successful man.

I must say, I can't help but wonder why you continue to care for her first two children (unless you've adopted them). In my mind, there is nothing more "beta" than a man who baby sits another man's children so that his cheating wife can have more time to cheat on him.

But do what you feel you need to do.


----------



## LongWalk

Agreed. Tge situation for your non-biological children is terrible, but sacrificing yourself to raise them so that she can have children with a new man is crazy. Will you take care of them, too.

Does your WW smoke?


----------



## Rottdad42

Well I pretty much read most of you thread and I have to say what a mess. But there is life at the end of this debacle. I can say this you will make it, if you have the stuff. My situation was a long term marriage, 20 years. Long time, lots of memories, some good, some not so good. My ex was always telling me you are a flirt, but you are not aware of it. I am 5'8, 170lbs at 12% body fat, had that tested when I was trying to become a catch. What I didn't know was, I was. A really good career, hardly any bills a really nice house, vehicle and so on. In my career confidence is king. You can be the smallest guy in the room, but if you exude confidence, it appears woman like that.

Example. I was in Target one day a few weeks before hell. I was with ex and went to check out. The 22 year old, half ebony half japanese had finished with customer in front of us and as she turned to scan our stuff, made this gesture to me like whoa you are a handsome bloak. You know what I mean. My ww saw that and was immediately uber po'd. She didn't show it but I knew. I wasn't aware of how I was talking to her, to me just being me. Let me clear I'm not the type to act like an attention seeking jackass with or without my better half. But my confidence was what she was attracted to. As we were leaving she made a comment like, hope to see you again, out of earshot of the ex. Her co-workers heard that and were staring at me.

My point to all this is, you are having a rough go, you are mentally, physically and spiritually in a deluge of funk. It will get better.
Your detachment from this person is in your best interest to start the walk away. You are a little older, but still able to make a go at a healthy relationship. I'm 43, at 40 was d-day, Not a good way to start my forties, but oh well. I lost my dad, my grandmother and my rottie, in a seven month span at the turn of forty and then the divorce. I got hit hard. After I woke the hell up and decided I need the love and feel of a good woman. Lo and behold, everyone was trying to help. Mom, female cousins, who dote on my brothers and I, ladies at my work. Were all wanting good things for me and had my best interest at heart. I dated a few and wasn't sure if I could do it in this day and age. I found or she found me, the woman I wished I had met 20 years ago.

Two years later, married, children and completely happy. This is the point of my ramble, To be happy. You can and will make it through mess. Chin up, work out, go out with friends and family. Work on you, all the bad things going on will eventually go away. You will find that woman that will make your hurt fade into a distant memory. Good luck. BTW my wife is a hottie, with brains and good morals. I won the lottery. This my friend is PRICELESS!


----------



## SF-FAN

carmen ohio said:


> SF-FAN,
> 
> Let me add a few things to cool 12's excellent response.
> 
> The purpose of the 180 is to prepare the BS for the future, be it with or without the WS. Therefore, the 180 can be used whether the desired outcome is R or not.
> 
> The purpose of trying to end the relationship between a WS and the OM is to pave the way for R (since there is little hope of R as long as the WS continues to cheat). There is no point in attempting this if the BS has no interest in R.
> 
> In your case, given your WW's history (e.g., three children by three different men) and her behavior towards you over the course of your marriare (two affairs, both denied and covered up), I can't imagine your wanting to R with her (she's just not marriage material). If this is the case, waste no effort on her or her activities. Instead, spend all of your time becoming a more confident, independent and successful man.
> 
> I must say, I can't help but wonder why you continue to care for her first two children (unless you've adopted them). In my mind, there is nothing more "beta" than a man who baby sits another man's children so that his cheating wife can have more time to cheat on him.
> 
> But do what you feel you need to do.


I met her when the kids were very young. To them I am their dad. Not only that, to me they are my kids. How can any human being raise 2 kids for over 8 years then say goodbye to them completely because of their cheating mother? I don't babysit them so she can be with the OM. I see them daily but my daughter stays overnight with her 100% of the time. She cannot have anymore kids. This is something I feel strongly about so if you think it's wrong for me to continue being these kids' dad, keep your comments to yourselves.


----------



## MattMatt

SF-FAN said:


> I met her when the kids were very young. To them I am their dad. Not only that, to me they are my kids. How can any human being raise 2 kids for over 8 years then say goodbye to them completely because of their cheating mother? I don't babysit them so she can be with the OM. I see them daily but my daughter stays overnight with her 100% of the time. She cannot have anymore kids. *This is something I feel strongly about so if you think it's wrong for me to continue being these kids' dad, keep your comments to yourselves.*


:iagree:

You'll want to stay in the children's lives. why? Because you are a man. A real man. Not a faker man who runs away and hides.


----------



## larry.gray

SF-FAN said:


> No I did not adopt the kids.


Well then you're not going to be paying child support for other men's kids. Good!

Do you want to remain in their lives? Does she want to let you?


----------



## LongWalk

:iagree: with Larry and MattMatt, too.

SF,

The idea is not that your desert the children whom you love. We are saying that you have to commit to what you can control. You did not adopt your step children. Is that good or bad? There is no simple answer.

If you had adopted them, then you would have custodial rights. As things stand you may or may not get custodial rights. She may even deny you visitation, ignoring the best interests of your two step children.

Your children are bonded to each other, which makes things even more complicated.

So, yes MattMatt is right, you should take responsibility. However, as Larry and I have pointed out, your legal situation may not allow you to exercise parental rights.

Your ex is all over the place. At the moment she may see you as a great sitter so that she can enjoy quality time with other men, for I doubt she will settle for just one other guy if her history is indicative to the future.

If you want to R, then you need to make her life difficult, as in get real BH, that's you, is not going to watch the kids so that she can fornicate openly. Probably your legal obligation is only to your child, so you can effectively put a lot of pressure on her.

If this fair or healthy for your elder two? No, clearly not. But then she is not thinking about what is good for them, is she? Do not clean up her messes. That will just enable her, don't you think?


----------



## SF-FAN

I will see them as long as she allows me to of course. That's one thing that she has always maintained, that she will never take them away. We will see if that is truly the case. I will not be a babysitter so she can go do what she wants though. The 3 kids are bonded so she would be the coldest person ever if she separated them like that.


----------



## LongWalk

The coldest person?

She has left three men. She doesn't care about the warmth of the nuclear family. How does she know that you will not abdicate your parental role? Some dad don't stick around. Not saying that's you, but how can a faithless person just a faithful one?

In truth she is willing to change men without regard to her children.

Quit smoking, work out, stick to the 180. Do not make her messing around convenient.


----------



## SF-FAN

LongWalk said:


> The coldest person?
> 
> She has left three men. She doesn't care about the warmth of the nuclear family. How does she know that you will not abdicate your parental role? Some dad don't stick around. Not saying that's you, but how can a faithless person just a faithful one?
> 
> In truth she is willing to change men without regard to her children.
> 
> Quit smoking, work out, stick to the 180. Do not make her messing around convenient.


I don't smoke and already work out. Been doing the 180.


----------



## the guy

Time to get laid then!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> Time to get laid then!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:iagree::iagree::iagree:
What else is there to say.


----------



## the guy

Or at the very least go out and practice your game so when your ready your ready!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rottdad42

I guess I should probably mention, that after being with a person for 20 years, you become accustomed to what is considered, normal. Communication, goals and of course, sex. Man I was completely out of my league. I dated quite a bit. I remember my dad made a comment to my mom, "He sure has a lot of girl-friends." But when you are in high school, it does not mean you know what you are doing. I was shy, but I could always talk to the girls. I was comfortable you could say. Raised by grandmothers and aunts, with a lot of girl cousins. Big, big family. BTW, the girl cousins while in school was a big, big plus. 

As I moved on in life, I thought I knew what I was doing, I really didn't. But I just kept going, till I got it close to being right. I was wrong. Should have read the signs early on. To the present time. My first date and then of course, sex. Because I can tell you, the first time it's just sex. I was completely taken back by how much has changed, in regards to woman.

I dated a few ladies in my department and connected entities. It was, good lord, fun  I didn't really know if I had what the ladies were looking for. I have my hair, plus, kept my weight right. During my funk and serious on the job injury I let myself go. Depression is a b***h. Couldn't work out in the slightest, broken pelvis because of injury from chasing scumbag across a freeway after being hit by a car, while I was on a motorcycle, that hurt. I did catch him, but blacked out after. Not a wuss, concussion plus everything else, I was spent.

My point to all this, is that we, as humans can manage a whole a lot. But at what point is too much, too much. This nightmare you are living, can be compared to what I have dealt with in a short span. In my very humble opinion and like what these guys are saying working on you is of paramount importance. Of course seeing to your children's needs comes first. When you are ready, mentally, physically you body will be ready. Then hold on to your hat, because the first time you get busy, with the first person that comes a long, you know what I mean. Let's just say, being an animal was what it was like for me. Seeing another woman's body after two decades, can throw you, for at least a minute  

Just keep telling yourself, everything will be okay. I'm a good man, with morals, conviction and a whole bunch of self worth. Because that's what good people are. Worthy of a good things, again good luck, now lets get you L**D!


----------



## carmen ohio

SF-FAN said:


> I met her when the kids were very young. To them I am their dad. Not only that, to me they are my kids. How can any human being raise 2 kids for over 8 years then say goodbye to them completely because of their cheating mother? I don't babysit them so she can be with the OM. I see them daily but my daughter stays overnight with her 100% of the time. She cannot have anymore kids. This is something I feel strongly about so if you think it's wrong for me to continue being these kids' dad, keep your comments to yourselves.


SF-FAN,

I didn't say it was wrong. In fact, I said do what you feel you need to do. But, although you obviously care for them very much, you are not the "dad" of the two children your WW had by other men. What I and some others are saying is don't allow your feelings for them to obscure your view of what your WW is doing and the kind of person she is. She uses men for her own purposes. She is using you.

i am curious about one thing. Do you feel a stronger bond with your child? Most men would. If you do, then it would only be right to protect that relationship. Why does your child stay overnight with her 100% of the time? Don't you want to spend more time with your child?

I get that your in a tough spot here because you care for all of her children. I'm just trying point out that you have choices in how you handle this situation, including how far you go in helping her raise her children by other men. You may think that sacrificing yours and your own child's interests for her and her other children is noble. I think it is foolish. But it's your call. Just think about it and then do what you think is right.


----------



## SF-FAN

carmen ohio said:


> SF-FAN,
> 
> I didn't say it was wrong. In fact, I said do what you feel you need to do. But, although you obviously care for them very much, you are not the "dad" of the two children your WW had by other men. What I and some others are saying is don't allow your feelings for them to obscure your view of what your WW is doing and the kind of person she is. She uses men for her own purposes. She is using you.
> 
> i am curious about one thing. Do you feel a stronger bond with your child? Most men would. If you do, then it would only be right to protect that relationship. Why does your child stay overnight with her 100% of the time? Don't you want to spend more time with your child?
> 
> I get that your in a tough spot here because you care for all of her children. I'm just trying point out that you have choices in how you handle this situation, including how far you go in helping her raise her children by other men. You may think that sacrificing yours and your own child's interests for her and her other children is noble. I think it is foolish. But it's your call. Just think about it and then do what you think is right.


I'm not sacrificing anything. We agreed on when they would stay with me and when they would stay with her. My oldest daughter which is 14 and not biologically mine, stays with her overnight 100% of the time but I pick her up from school and see her during the day when it's my turn with them. The 2 that are not mine don't have fathers in their lives otherwise it would be different. I am it, since they were little, therefore I bonded with them and they bonded with me. She is a "user" but she is not using me in that she's using me as a babysitter while she does what she wants. I refuse to let do any kind of favors for her.


----------



## SF-FAN

What's funny is that it appears she is trying to do something of the 180. When she drops of the kids that is. She is trying to be cheerful and "happy" like if she doesn't have a care in the world. The only thing bothering me is that I still feel some attraction to her for her body as in "lust" because I'm a man but I am working hard to see her for the monster she really is so that I find her repulsive period.


----------



## larry.gray

larry.gray said:


> Do you want to remain in their lives? Does she want to let you?


I had left my computer on for an hour or so with this thread open, I see you posted a response to this question before I asked it.

I sure hope she lets you stay in the kids' lives. For both your and their sakes.


----------



## SF-FAN

larry.gray said:


> I had left my computer on for an hour or so with this thread open, I see you posted a response to this question before I asked it.
> 
> I sure hope she lets you stay in the kids' lives. For both your and their sakes.


Most of her family hates her right now and she's trying to turn it around on me saying that I've been in cahoots with her family to try to get them on my side. I told her I don't care what her family thinks about me or her but I think it's an attempt at making me look like a bad person. 

Regardless, that is why I don't think she will keep the kids from me. She doesn't want to look worse then she already does.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> The only thing bothering me is that I still feel some attraction to her for her body as in "lust" because I'm a man but I am working hard to see her for the monster she really is so that I find her repulsive period.


If this is your issue then two things need to happen:

1) Every time you start to "lust" for her, close your eyes and picture her lusting over the OM. Having crazy, unprotected, porn star sex and doing every nasty move and position to get HIM off. While they laugh at you behind your back... That's how it always goes down. Part of any affair is ridiculing or demonizing you on some level. Just keep telling yourself she's a gross skank who spreads her legs because she has no self-esteem or respect.

2) Find another girl ASAP. Or just go get laid. If you can't do that in the short term, then even go to a strip club if you have to. Find an outlet to vent your lust that doesn't involve the POS you married and puts other real girl(s) around you. Does wonders for getting over it.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> If this is your issue then two things need to happen:
> 
> *1) Every time you start to "lust" for her, close your eyes and picture her lusting over the OM. Having crazy, unprotected, porn star sex and doing every nasty move and position to get HIM off. While they laugh at you behind your back... That's how it always goes down. Part of any affair is ridiculing or demonizing you on some level. Just keep telling yourself she's a gross skank who spreads her legs because she has no self-esteem or respect.*
> 
> 2) Find another girl ASAP. Or just go get laid. If you can't do that in the short term, then even go to a strip club if you have to. Find an outlet to vent your lust that doesn't involve the POS you married and puts other real girl(s) around you. Does wonders for getting over it.


Number one is hard for me because that is what still bothers me; imagining her with another guy still hurts. Though she's despicable for doing it and they are demonizing me, it still kills me, not sure if it's because it's still so fresh or what.


----------



## larry.gray

SF-FAN said:


> Number one is hard for me because that is what still bothers me; imagining her with another guy still hurts. Though she's despicable for doing it and they are demonizing me, it still kills me, not sure if it's because it's still so fresh or what.


Uh yeah! I think that was horrible advice - even guys that break up still have problems with mind movies. Dwelling on it doesn't make it better. Thinking about it will make you hate her more. The opposite of love is indifference, not hate. Hate doesn't let you let her go, indifference does.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> Number one is hard for me because that is what still bothers me; imagining her with another guy still hurts. Though she's despicable for doing it and they are demonizing me, it still kills me, not sure if it's because it's still so fresh or what.


I felt the same way early on and for me it was because it was so fresh. Eventually, the more you think about it, the more you will become resentful and will actually start to be disgusted by her. The person you were supposed to trust the most stabbed you in the back. NEVER forget that.

While everyone is different on how long it takes, you can expedite your recovery by 1) using the anger to displace the hurt. Get mad at her in your mind as much as you can. Use the "bad" negative emotions to numb the pain and detach. 2) Replace her ASAP. Someone else to give feelings or even lust to as an outlet because you're just bottling up your "good" emotions. Doing one or both of those things will make you gain leaps and bounds in your recovery.


----------



## SF-FAN

larry.gray said:


> Uh yeah! I think that was horrible advice - even guys that break up still have problems with mind movies. Dwelling on it doesn't make it better. Thinking about it will make you hate her more. The opposite of love is indifference, not hate. Hate doesn't let you let her go, indifference does.


Thank you! That is what I am striving for, indifference. I actually spoke with a friend of mine and she told me that she cheated once and that what completely made her stop was that her husband stopped caring. She sensed his indifference and that made her wake up. She plead with him, kissed his a$$ but he wouldn't budge. He just stopped giving a fvck. That is where I am trying to get to and though I feel surges of it, I don't feel 100% indifference yet.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Thank you! That is what I am striving for, indifference. I actually spoke with a friend of mine and she told me that she cheated once and that what completely made her stop was that her husband stopped caring. She sensed his indifference and that made her wake up. She plead with him, kissed his a$$ but he wouldn't budge. He just stopped giving a fvck. That is where I am trying to get to and though I feel surges of it, I don't feel 100% indifference yet.


That's because people will tell you that the opposite of love is hate, but it is in all actuality, indifference. Hate is the same strength and emotions as involved in love, just focused in the opposite direction, so the raw emotions and feeling are the same strength and still exist. Indifference is truly the opposite. No emotion or caring.


----------



## BetrayedDad

larry.gray said:


> Thinking about it will make you hate her more. The opposite of love is indifference, not hate. Hate doesn't let you let her go, indifference does.


The intent IS to hate her more. Though I agree indifference is the ultimate goal, however there is no direct path to indifference. You can't just turn off hurt because if you could there would be no TAM. In my opinion, hate is a much faster path to indifference then sadness and pining over lost love. If you can't not care then hate her rather than cry over spilt milk.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> The intent IS to hate her more. Though I agree indifference is the ultimate goal, however there is no direct path to indifference. You can't just turn off hurt because if you could there would be no TAM. In my opinion, hate is a much faster path to indifference then sadness and pining over lost love. If you can't not care then hate her rather than cry over spilt milk.


There's not an hour that goes by that I don't think about her stabbing me in the back and betraying me. It absolutely angers me and makes me hate her more and more. It's a fine line because those thoughts can really ruin my day but do detach me more and more.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> It's a fine line because those thoughts can really ruin my day but do detach me more and more.


That's the end game we all agree on and the sooner the better right? 100% detachment and indifference. It'll come eventually no matter what with time.


----------



## LongWalk

And of course indifference comes in bigger steps when the WS is replaced with someone new.

I wonder if you could go to a dating site and put up an ad that said:

Man getting over cheating wife wants coffee date with woman getting over cheating husband. The aim is just to have a friend to talk to, not to dive into a rebound relationship. Prepared to offer a sympathetic ear in return.


----------



## SF-FAN

LongWalk said:


> And of course indifference comes in bigger steps when the WS is replaced with someone new.
> 
> I wonder if you could go to a dating site and put up an ad that said:
> 
> Man getting over cheating wife wants coffee date with woman getting over cheating husband. The aim is just to have a friend to talk to, not to dive into a rebound relationship. Prepared to offer a sympathetic ear in return.


I may do that...:smthumbup:


----------



## SF-FAN

This may sound stupid but I have to ask anyway. During our marriage my wife was fairly classy in terms of not passing gas in front of me. She was embarrassed if she did by accident. Within the last year or so she started passing gas without embarrassment. Now I know couples get comfortable with each other as they grow old together, however, is that a type of sign that she really didn't care what I thought about her anymore because of the affair?


----------



## alte Dame

This can be a sign that she was no longer interested in attracting you. It can also mean that she was very comfortable, which itself could signal several things, e.g., that your relationship is extremely intimate or that the two of you have gotten lazy with one another....

I think it could mean many things.


----------



## SF-FAN

Hmmm, I think it's because she no longer cared about attracting me. I doubt she was doing that with the OM which is ironic because he's a scumbag without class and I like to think I do have class. I was very comfortable with her but still never passed gas in front of her...just felt it was disrespectful. Just me though.


----------



## bigbearsfan

alte Dame said:


> This can be a sign that she was no longer interested in attracting you. It can also mean that she was very comfortable, which itself could signal several things, e.g., that your relationship is extremely intimate or that the two of you have gotten lazy with one another....
> 
> I think it could mean many things.


Or she is just full of crap and it needs to get out


----------



## BobSimmons

SF-FAN said:


> Hmmm, I think it's because she no longer cared about attracting me. I doubt she was doing that with the OM which is ironic because he's a scumbag without class and I like to think I do have class. I was very comfortable with her but still never passed gas in front of her...just felt it was disrespectful. Just me though.


There's passing gas that once in a while oh that's so gross you can both laugh about it, then there's not giving a toss, just laying it out there farting.

Think about it like this, if she was going out to meet a lover would she dress up, wear sexy underwear or drive to him in her pajamas? Obviously the former. 

What she demonstrated was your lowered value in her eyes, subconsciously or not. Om doesn't necessarily have to be Mr Awesome or Pillar of respectability, but he was Mr Object of her desire the man she was giving herself to, once detachment had taken place so did any pretense of putting any effort into maintaining that respect. That was now reserved for someone else.


----------



## convert

its funny you mention that.
I never trusted my farts and had blind trust in my wife.
I think i trust my farts more now then my ww.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> Hmmm, I think it's because she no longer cared about attracting me.


You're right about that. Her mind was on impressing the OM. That's why I bet she would shave her junk and get dressed to the nines when meeting up with him and you get the sweats, stubble and no make up version.



SF-FAN said:


> I doubt she was doing that with the OM which is ironic because he's a scumbag without class and I like to think I do have class.


That maybe 100% true in reality but in her twisted mentality he is more attractive as a mate than you are. She's attracted to the "bad boy" type that she equates being a POS home wrecker as.... You can't compete with that unless you become a POS too.



SF-FAN said:


> I was very comfortable with her but still never passed gas in front of her...just felt it was disrespectful. Just me though.


Because you still had respect for her while she lost all respect for you. Don't take that personally though. I used too until it occurred to me that if she doesn't have any self-respect than why would she have any for me? You almost have to have no self-respect to be a cheater. How else could you pull off being a lying, cheating, leg spreading skank?


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> You're right about that. Her mind was on impressing the OM. That's why I bet she would shave her junk and get dressed to the nines when meeting up with him and you get the sweats, stubble and no make up version.
> 
> 
> 
> That maybe 100% true in reality but in her twisted mentality he is more attractive as a mate than you are. She's attracted to the "bad boy" type that she equates being a POS home wrecker as.... You can't compete with that unless you become a POS too.
> 
> 
> 
> Because you still had respect for her while she lost all respect for you. Don't take that personally though. I used too until it occurred to me that if she doesn't have any self-respect than why would she have any for me? You almost have to have no self-respect to be a cheater. How else could you pull off being a lying, cheating, leg spreading skank?


What's funny is that they see each other at work so she looks anything but glamorous there but hey like you said, the 2 are POS cheaters so they're attracting each other. All I know is that I can look in the mirror and not feel like I'm a scumbag.


----------



## carmen ohio

SF-FAN said:


> This may sound stupid but I have to ask anyway. During our marriage my wife was fairly classy in terms of not passing gas in front of me. She was embarrassed if she did by accident. Within the last year or so she started passing gas without embarrassment. Now I know couples get comfortable with each other as they grow old together, however, is that a type of sign that she really didn't care what I thought about her anymore because of the affair?


SF-FAN,

I think this question means that you are still a long way from detaching from your WW. You're thinking way too much about her (and thinking rather weirdly, I might add).

Time to get a new life -- preferably with someone who doesn't f*rt in your face, actually or metaphorically.


----------



## SF-FAN

carmen ohio said:


> SF-FAN,
> 
> I think this question means that you are still a long way from detaching from your WW. You're thinking way too much about her (and thinking rather weirdly, I might add).
> 
> Time to get a new life -- preferably with someone who doesn't f*rt in your face, actually or metaphorically.


Yes, of course, this is fairly a fresh dday. I am trying though...it's not easy and this is one of the times I wish time would speed up. Unfortunately time only flies when you're having fun.


----------



## SF-FAN

Was sent this article that I found helpful:

4 Ways I Recovered After I Lost Everything In Love | GoodGuySwag


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SF-FAN said:


> Thank you! That is what I am striving for, indifference. I actually spoke with a friend of mine and she told me that she cheated once and that what completely made her stop was that her husband stopped caring. She sensed his indifference and that made her wake up. She plead with him, kissed his a$$ but he wouldn't budge. * He just stopped giving a fvck.* That is where I am trying to get to and though I feel surges of it, I don't feel 100% indifference yet.


Read this book. Live this book.


----------



## weightlifter

LOL GP post above makes me wanna do a special SF version of 

fox in socks called
fux and sucks


----------



## Omego

weightlifter said:


> LOL GP post above makes me wanna do a special SF version of
> 
> fox in socks called
> fux and sucks


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


(I am not laughing about the situation, don't want to offend the OP.)


----------



## weightlifter

Omego said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> 
> (I am not laughing about the situation, don't want to offend the OP.)


Yea SF 
I mean no disrespect for ya man. I know it hurts.

Dr Seuss is just so.

pervertable.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Yea SF
> I mean no disrespect for ya man. I know it hurts.
> 
> Dr Seuss is just so.
> 
> pervertable.


No offense taken. Every time I catch myself thinking about her and potentially being with the POSOM, I right away tell myself "WHO GIVES A FVCK? THEY ARE BOTH SCUMBAGS AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT, THEY HAVE TO HIDE AND SNEAK LIKE ****ROACHES" 

From now on, as hard as it is, the word of every day is detach, detach, detach.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> "WHO GIVES A FVCK? THEY ARE BOTH SCUMBAGS AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT, THEY HAVE TO HIDE AND SNEAK LIKE ****ROACHES"


this.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> No offense taken. Every time I catch myself thinking about her and potentially being with the POSOM, I right away tell myself "WHO GIVES A FVCK? THEY ARE BOTH SCUMBAGS AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT, THEY HAVE TO HIDE AND SNEAK LIKE ****ROACHES"
> 
> From now on, as hard as it is, *the word of every day is detach, detach, detach*.


...and this


----------



## SF-FAN

All I know is I would feel lower than low if I had to hide and sneak around all the time. It would suck - I love living my life knowing I have nothing to hide. I may not be perfect but I am not hiding like a roach.


----------



## SF-FAN

Little update. It's my son's birthday today so we took him to lunch together (his request). My WW was playing cool, probably cause she doesn't give a rats about me but then one of her cousins from her family got there on her own and completely ignored my WW! Oh man, my WW's attitude completely changed. She got quiet and pissed! Haha..I kind of feel a little bad...why is that?


----------



## weightlifter

Why indeed. It should be fun you have some of her family on your side.

I woulda talked to her cousin just to pizz her off more. I know. Im a mental midget. Or maybe just a mental.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Why indeed. It should be fun you have some of her family on your side.
> 
> I woulda talked to her cousin just to pizz her off more. I know. Im a mental midget. Or maybe just a mental.


Thing is this is a cousin we never see and shouldn't care whether her and I are together, apart, fighting, happy, etc. It was weird. Her family must be very pissed at her that it's resonating to that distant of a family member.


----------



## alte Dame

SF-FAN said:


> one of her cousins from her family got there on her own and completely ignored my WW! Oh man, my WW's attitude completely changed. She got quiet and pissed! Haha..I kind of feel a little bad...why is that?


Because you are a decent person. It goes with the territory.


----------



## SF-FAN

Ok so little update. Now the extended family is finding out what she did and she is livid. She continues to blame ME because people are asking and even looking up the OM online. She argues with me every time we swap the kids and calls my family nosy or whomever is asking or looking this POS up. It does get to me. It makes me mad she can't own up to what she did. It ruins my day!! I am really getting to dislike this person and it sucks BIG TIME that I have to have interaction with her. I know that if I saw her with another man, I'd get jealous but honestly, I am not attracted to her in any way anymore.


----------



## mahike

The jealousy is normal. I am sorry you are going through this junk, tell her next time you are swapping kids that you are only willing to talk about them. You have no interest in her problems outside of the kids.

Stay strong!


----------



## sandc

She put herself into this situation. She's angry with herself but taking it out on you. She may also be angry that you couldn't just leave well enough alone and let her enjoy "her" life. She's self-centered. You will like the next woman in your life so much better.


----------



## SF-FAN

sandc said:


> She put herself into this situation. She's angry with herself but taking it out on you. She may also be angry that you couldn't just leave well enough alone and let her enjoy "her" life. She's self-centered. You will like the next woman in your life so much better.


And what's funny is that my WW still says that I will be sorry after all of this is said and done like if I am the one that caused all of this. That I will never find anyone like her and that she's the best thing that's ever happened to me.


----------



## bandit.45

Well that's the way narcissists think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

SF-FAN said:


> And what's funny is that my WW still says that I will be sorry after all of this is said and done like if I am the one that caused all of this. That I will never find anyone like her and that she's the best thing that's ever happened to me.


The fact is, you CAN find someone like her... which is why you'll need to be very careful next time. 

Check weightlifter's signature for what you can expect in your future. You will find much better than her. Someone who is into YOU. Who finds you amazing and is dying to be with you? Don't believe me? You'll see...


----------



## vi_bride04

SF-FAN said:


> And what's funny is that my WW still says that I will be sorry after all of this is said and done like if I am the one that caused all of this. *That I will never find anyone like her and that she's the best thing that's ever happened to me.*





bandit.45 said:


> Well that's the way narcissists think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Yup, thats how they think. I remember my ex telling me the exact same thing, word for word. And the closer it got to me moving out, the more he said it.


----------



## happi_g_more2

vi_bride04 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Yup, thats how they think. I remember my ex telling me the exact same thing, word for word. And the closer it got to me moving out, the more he said it.


yup. and the irony is that the accuracy of her prediction is 100% up to SF. If 5 years from now you are fit, successful, and have a hot chick on your arm, she will be wrong. If you are sitting a bar still drowning your sorrows, she will be right.


----------



## weightlifter

SF

The Whyeme story can be repeated in you.
You have to heal first but
You need to 
BELIEVE

She (your next love) is out there. She may be going thru the exact same thing right now.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SF-FAN said:


> And what's funny is that my WW still says that I will be sorry after all of this is said and done like if I am the one that caused all of this. *That I will never find anyone like her and that she's the best thing that's ever happened to me.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> As far as her saying you will never find anyone like her - Tell her that you hope and pray that you don't. One's enough.
> 
> Oh, an also, a cheating wife is not the best thing that has, or will ever, happen to you.
> 
> Try to stay frosty when she gets like this. Even smile when she starts spouting of garbage like the above. You're never down, depressed, or anything but calm, cool and composed in front of her.
> 
> It'll p!ss her off eventually. Trust me.
> 
> Btw, I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this. Many of us have lived through the same. It's a long road, but it can(and will) lead you a better place.


----------



## larry.gray

SF-FAN said:


> And what's funny is that my WW still says that I will be sorry after all of this is said and done like if I am the one that caused all of this. That I will never find anyone like her and that she's the best thing that's ever happened to me.


Did you start laughing uncontrollably?


----------



## treyvion

SF-FAN said:


> And what's funny is that my WW still says that I will be sorry after all of this is said and done like if I am the one that caused all of this. That I will never find anyone like her and that she's the best thing that's ever happened to me.


Well, I'm glad that you realize that almost anything is better than a WW. Even someone way out of your typical "preference" range who likes you is a 100x better.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> And what's funny is that my WW still says that I will be sorry after all of this is said and done like if I am the one that caused all of this. That I will never find anyone like her and that she's the best thing that's ever happened to me.


delusional.

but you know, this isn't her first rodeo so i'm sure she spins it this way in her head just to get by.
she probably said it to the last couple of men in her life and she'll be saying it to the posom too one of these days.

good riddance!

as for the jealousy, we can be jealous of something we don't even want anymore. don't confuse it with real love.


----------



## SF-FAN

I think she notices my detachment especially now that I am in my nice new home in a great neighborhood. Yesterday when she picked up the kids, she made it a point to list all the new items she is buying for her apt. Doesn't affect me one bit. After she picked them up, she called and asked why I didn't care anymore and why I was trying to hurt her. LOL!


----------



## SF-FAN

Like I said, I still have feelings for her and if I saw her with another guy, it would hurt and I'd be jealous but I am fed up with her attitude and cheating ways. The news of what she did is spreading like wildfire and she hates it. Not going to lie, it is affecting me to though. I have family members and friends calling me and texting me and I really don't want to hear it anymore. I want to be left alone, put it behind me and move on.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SF-FAN said:


> Like I said, I still have feelings for her and if I saw her with another guy, it would hurt and I'd be jealous but I am fed up with her attitude and cheating ways. The news of what she did is spreading like wildfire and she hates it. Not going to lie, it is affecting me to though. *I have family members and friends calling me and texting me and I really don't want to hear it anymore. I want to be left alone, put it behind me and move on.*


Well it's new to them and they care for you, so they call/text/email to see how you're doing.

I know you'd rather put this in the back of your mind, but they mean well.

When they contact you, instead of talking about your stbxw, try to change the subject. "My new place is great." "the kids are happy here." "I'm not going to date for a while, but am excited about the prospects."

It's what I did when my ex's family would call me. The first few weeks, we would just bash my ex around, she's this, she's that, etc.. Then it dawned on me what I must have sounded like to them.

I then only spoke positive about what I was going to do to get/be better. It really was the first step in me moving on.


----------



## mahike

I am sure you would rather talk about something else. The positive these are all people that want to support you. Just let them know you would rather not talk about it and you really value their friendship.


----------



## Squeakr

Guess I am jaded as I never read it as they were definitely supporting him. I just saw it listed as it is spreading rampantly and she hates it and he is being affected, so the first thought that comes to mind is them wanting to know what he did and blaming him(as this is how it was with me and not lots of support).


----------



## SF-FAN

It does bring me down because I am feeling positive and then they feel they have to counsel me, give me advice, etc. I just want to move on and not talk about it anymore period. What makes me mad is that it's family that I don't ever talk to so I feel they are being nosy as well.


----------



## Rev. Clonn

SF-Fan,
its just human nature to gossip and pry into others dirty laundry, sorry but it has been going on since before we were really people.
Like others have said, just stay positive, tell them how great things are for you and you really do not want to know what they know.
"I am just ready to move on."
and
"I deserve better than I have gotten."
both to others and to yourself. You do deserve more, better and happier. 
Your home work is to convince yourself, then go out and get it. IN that order.


----------



## weightlifter

Trying to hurt HER?!?

If she is still in love with you invite her to watch you having relations with another woman and see how it feels.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Trying to hurt HER?!?
> 
> If she is still in love with you invite her to watch you having relations with another woman and see how it feels.


No, I just want to be left alone to move on.  It's her family and my family that feel they need to step in and speak their mind; not only to me but also to her. To me it's like re-opening a wound and causing me to take steps back.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> No, I just want to be left alone to move on. It's her family and my family that feel they need to step in and speak their mind; not only to me but also to her. To me it's like re-opening a wound and causing me to take steps back.


Then tell this to them so they understand that it is not something you want nor are willing to talk about and make that known. IF they truly care for and about you, they will understand.


----------



## the guy

You can't control family/people...so set up your standard reply and use it.... in time they will atop calling...unless you have a huge family...

You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> No, I just want to be left alone to move on. It's her family and my family that feel they need to step in and speak their mind; not only to me but also to her. To me it's like re-opening a wound and causing me to take steps back.


it's natural for them to be curious.
come up with a standard answer you can give everyone and use it.


you're doing great.


----------



## SF-FAN

This is weird and I'm definitely feeling the rollercoaster of emotions this morning. I am at my new house now which I am happy about, however, she has the kids this week so I am a bit lonely (at least at night). She texts or calls late to ask something about the kids and I know it's her way of checking up on me. That doesn't bother me because I keep it short and cold. Right now, the loneliness and mind movies are affecting me a bit, probably because I am alone at night and have a lot of time to think.


----------



## bandit.45

You need to get dressed up, go out and meet people. Even if you don't want to make yourself get out. Don't be alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

bandit.45 said:


> You need to get dressed up, go out and meet people. Even if you don't want to make yourself get out. Don't be alone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great very simple advice.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Get out, get women. Biology always heals.


----------



## bandit.45

You make the choice to be lonely and alone. Or you choose to get out and be a herd animal...like you were designed to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

Weekends are different. I'm mostly talking about weekdays. I work mon-fri so hard to go out during the week. My kids have games and they usually end about 9 to 10 so after that is when I am talking about.


----------



## bandit.45

Movies, batting cages, health club, pool halls, bowling alleys.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

I know how this is, SF. A number of years ago I drank too much because of just this issue. It takes some time to adjust your patterns and habits.

Try to mix things up when you have to be alone. Make a list that has you doing several things, one after the other, e.g., cooking, shopping, reading, watching a movie. Do these things in relatively short spurts so that you keep 'moving.' Bring your laptop to a coffee shop and just sit and read/post.

Gradually some social things will find their way into your alone time & you will have established a new pattern for yourself.


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> This is weird and I'm definitely feeling the rollercoaster of emotions this morning. I am at my new house now which I am happy about, however, she has the kids this week so I am a bit lonely (at least at night). She texts or calls late to ask something about the kids and I know it's her way of checking up on me. That doesn't bother me because I keep it short and cold. Right now, the loneliness and mind movies are affecting me a bit, probably because I am alone at night and have a lot of time to think.



Try this. Pick up the phone and say "is it an emergency? No, ok. We can talk at the exchange. Good bye. ". 

Or, let it go to voice mail. Then text, the same thing. Maybe add a "I'm busy". 

Don't engage her. Set the rules of communication for your benefit.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Movies, batting cages, health club, pool halls, bowling alleys.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good advice. I think the gym and movies are a good start. Unfortunately the batting cages here close at 8 and the pool halls and bowling alleys are breeding grounds for the trash in our area.


----------



## SF-FAN

alte Dame said:


> I know how this is, SF. A number of years ago I drank too much because of just this issue. It takes some time to adjust your patterns and habits.
> 
> Try to mix things up when you have to be alone. Make a list that has you doing several things, one after the other, e.g., cooking, shopping, reading, watching a movie. Do these things in relatively short spurts so that you keep 'moving.' Bring your laptop to a coffee shop and just sit and read/post.
> 
> Gradually some social things will find their way into your alone time & you will have established a new pattern for yourself.


Funny thing is that right after DDay I did drink some but not a ton. I do drink socially or have a beer here and there after a hard day but between my kids' sports and moving, I have not had time to drink at all. I know it's going to take time. I can honestly say I am not even ready to have any girls over yet. Not because of my WW, but because I don't feel emotionally ready.


----------



## bandit.45

I used to love going to see movies. I refuse to now because of the outrageous ticket prices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> I used to love going to see movies. I refuse to now because of the outrageous ticket prices.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I actually have a long list of movies to catch up on that are now out on video so if I stick to that, I'll be busy for a while.


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> I used to love going to see movies. I refuse to now because of the outrageous ticket prices.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Come on bandit, there are some great movies you don't want to miss on the big screen. GRAVITY comes to mind, best realistic movie I've seen in a long time. You can save money by putting some beef jerky and a flask in the top of your cowboy boots.


----------



## bandit.45

Chaparral said:


> Come on bandit, there are some great movies you don't want to miss on the big screen. GRAVITY comes to mind, best realistic movie I've seen in a long time. You can save money by putting some beef jerky and a flask in the top of your cowboy boots.


That's a good idea. The flask would have to be soda. This drunk can't drink. But I love that jerky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

A friend saw Gravity at an Imax theater and almost got ill.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

bandit.45 said:


> I used to love going to see movies. I refuse to now because of the outrageous ticket prices.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep. Fortunately, I have a friend that works for a movie theater. Free movies are great.


----------



## SF-FAN

Okay so this confirms that many (not all) but many women like a$$holes. I've been fairly cold and rude to my WW and it's only causing her to contact me more. She even said, "you're rude" and I told her "yes I am, so what!" Things like that are attractive to women? Wish I knew this sooner, maybe I could have stopped her from straying. This is just weird to me.


----------



## alte Dame

Things like that are attractive to the wrong kind of woman, the cheating kind.


----------



## SF-FAN

alte Dame said:


> Things like that are attractive to the wrong kind of woman, the cheating kind.


I getcha, but also in that book that someone suggested, Marriage Primer or whatever it's called, it says a man must be the right balance of Alpha and Beta. So even with a good woman, I guess you can't be a pushover or YES man either.


----------



## Rev. Clonn

SF-FAN said:


> I getcha, but also in that book that someone suggested, Marriage Primer or whatever it's called, it says a man must be the right balance of Alpha and Beta. So even with a good woman, I guess you can't be a pushover or YES man either.


That is right, balance in all areas of your life.
Shhh don't tell anybody, it's a secret


----------



## Chaparral

SF-FAN said:


> I getcha, but also in that book that someone suggested, Marriage Primer or whatever it's called, it says a man must be the right balance of Alpha and Beta. So even with a good woman, I guess you can't be a pushover or YES man either.


Its biological. Women want a strong, inteligent and courageous male. How many times have you seen or known a woman and you thought what he hell is she doing with him?


----------



## honeysuckle

Being married or in a long term relationship is meant to 
•make you happy
•enhance your life
•have someone to share your dreams,aspirations,desires,needs and happiness with
•allow you to be yourself
•love someone unconditionally & be loved unconditionally.
If your relationship doesn't allow you this what is the point?


----------



## Squeakr

Chaparral said:


> Its biological. Women want a strong, inteligent and courageous male. How many times have you seen or known a woman and you thought what he hell is she doing with him?


In theory this makes sense, but it seems to fail in practice. If this was so correct, then why are we on here getting advice about how to be alpha and keep our women from others whom have lost theirs??


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Okay so this confirms that many (not all) but many women like a$$holes. I've been fairly cold and rude to my WW and it's only causing her to contact me more. She even said, "you're rude" and I told her "yes I am, so what!" Things like that are attractive to women? Wish I knew this sooner, maybe I could have stopped her from straying. This is just weird to me.


But is she the woman you really want to be with (you are finding out what may be the true her), and do you want to go through life hating whom you are?


----------



## Disenchanted

SF-FAN said:


> I getcha, but also in that book that someone suggested, Marriage Primer or whatever it's called, it says a man must be the right balance of Alpha and Beta. So even with a good woman, I guess you can't be a pushover or YES man either.


Gotta choose from abundance not scarcity my man.

I was a total doormat for my wife. Took the advice in MMSLP and a few others and now I'm gad danged eyeballs deep in [email protected], more then I can handle.

I had no idea life could be like this.

Don't put up with any woman's sh!t my brother.


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> Okay so this confirms that many (not all) but many women like a$$holes. I've been fairly cold and rude to my WW and it's only causing her to contact me more. She even said, "you're rude" and I told her "yes I am, so what!" Things like that are attractive to women? Wish I knew this sooner, maybe I could have stopped her from straying. This is just weird to me.



Don't misunderstand her words. Yes Alpha is attractive. But this ain't about that. 

Her world is changing. You're not the nice mushy doormat she's used to and she's fighting that change. This is a sure sign you're starting to be centered. 

Wear it like a badge of honor.


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> But is she the woman you really want to be with (you are finding out what may be the true her), and do you want to go through life hating whom you are?


I was just pointing out how women react to a change in men's attitude. It's weird to me.



Disenchanted said:


> Gotta choose from abundance not scarcity my man.
> 
> I was a total doormat for my wife. Took the advice in MMSLP and a few others and now I'm gad danged eyeballs deep in [email protected], more then I can handle.
> 
> I had no idea life could be like this.
> 
> Don't put up with any woman's sh!t my brother.


I'm doing o.k., new home in a nice new neighborhood and I know that I can attract other women. I may get down on myself at times but I'm o.k.



U.E. McGill said:


> Don't misunderstand her words. Yes Alpha is attractive. But this ain't about that.
> 
> Her world is changing. You're not the nice mushy doormat she's used to and she's fighting that change. This is a sure sign you're starting to be centered.
> 
> Wear it like a badge of honor.


Yessir, I'm not taking any bullsh*t anymore from anyone. I was WAY too passive. I'm going to make decisions and do things that I want to do, whether in a relationship or not.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> I was just pointing out how women react to a change in men's attitude. It's weird to me.


I understand your position, but your comment about, having possibly have known this earlier and applied it then, you possibly could have kept the A from ever happening. I was just stating that is this someone you want to be and you now know the truth, so it was probably only a matter of time before she cheated anyway (and I don't think it was really you or your attitude).


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> I understand your position, but your comment about, having possibly have known this earlier and applied it then, you possibly could have kept the A from ever happening. I was just stating that is this someone you want to be and you now know the truth, so it was probably only a matter of time before she cheated anyway (and I don't think it was really you or your attitude).


Very true! I just have been very passive in all my relationships so it's hard to tell if me being more of an Alpha would have changed anything. Guess I'll never know.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> I was just pointing out how women react to a change in men's attitude. It's weird to me.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm doing o.k., new home in a nice new neighborhood and I know that I can attract other women. I may get down on myself at times but I'm o.k.
> 
> 
> 
> Yessir, I'm not taking any bullsh*t anymore from anyone. I was WAY too passive. I'm going to make decisions and do things that I want to do, whether in a relationship or not.



Atta boy!!! keep gettin strong


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Very true! I just have been very passive in all my relationships so it's hard to tell if me being more of an Alpha would have changed anything. Guess I'll never know.


So true, but if this is your personality and you enjoy yourself as your currently are then you shouldn't need to change for anybody and just find someone happy with you as you are. Just as with a cheater, your personality will only stay the "changed" way for so long and will eventually go back to your normal routine and pattern and then where does that put you?


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> So true, but if this is your personality and you enjoy yourself as your currently are then you shouldn't need to change for anybody and just find someone happy with you as you are. Just as with a cheater, your personality will only stay the "changed" way for so long and will eventually go back to your normal routine and pattern and then where does that put you?


Well, I'm fairly quiet around my wife and kids but when I am around my friends, I am louder and more outspoken. My wife always asked why I wasn't more outspoken around her and the kids. Also, I am too passive in that I don't make decisions and let her make all of them, that is something I am not comfortable with. It feels good to make decisions as well. So regardless of if my WW is a serial cheater, I'd like to make certain changes for me.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Well, I'm fairly quiet around my wife and kids but when I am around my friends, I am louder and more outspoken. My wife always asked why I wasn't more outspoken around her and the kids. Also, I am too passive in that I don't make decisions and let her make all of them, that is something I am not comfortable with. It feels good to make decisions as well. So regardless of if my WW is a serial cheater, I'd like to make certain changes for me.


Then those changes are for the right reasons!!:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## SF-FAN

I haven't posted recently because there hasn't been much going on. I'm still trying to do the 180 and been fairly o.k. for the most part. I do have my relapses but trying to move forward. 

I do have a question that maybe someone can give me some insight on. You may remember that WW took a weekend trip with the POSOM which is what started this thread. Anyway, their trip was to city by the ocean. I have always loved the ocean and that city as well. We've visited that city a few times, together, with our kids. So now anytime I even think of going anywhere by the ocean, I get a cringing feeling. The love I had for the ocean and that city in particular is tainted. All I can think of is the betrayal that happened in that city. What do I do to get over this?


----------



## Squeakr

Maybe find another city by the ocean, or discover a new live, such as the desert or the mountains. I had to get rid of some of my favorite places as well, just to save my sanity.


----------



## SF-FAN

Squeakr said:


> Maybe find another city by the ocean, or discover a new live, such as the desert or the mountains. I had to get rid of some of my favorite places as well, just to save my sanity.


Man...I don't know. I've always loved the ocean. I love the beach and everything about ocean life. If I could, I'd live near it. I'm still dealing with moving on from the act of the affair and now I have to try to move on from the location of it.


----------



## mahike

This is a tough one. My family takes a trip every year to a lake. We already had our Dday before going but it was the scene of some fights with us and the POSOM trying to call and text her.

We have been back since but it is a big trigger for me.

I try to focus on my memories with my kids


----------



## SF-FAN

mahike said:


> This is a tough one. My family takes a trip every year to a lake. We already had our Dday before going but it was the scene of some fights with us and the POSOM trying to call and text her.
> 
> We have been back since but it is a big trigger for me.
> 
> I try to focus on my memories with my kids


Right after DDay, I told her she fvcked up that place for me and I will NEVER go there again and the kids will NEVER go there again either as long as I can help it.

I will return to the ocean someday but it won't be to that city. Even though she is a POS herself, I highly doubt she would go there anytime soon either. Like you said, it would be a huge trigger.


----------



## hospitality

You live in the bay area. Start going out to the delta. Lots of water sports, rent a boat go fishing/wake boarding etc. Also start heading up to the Sierras. Then when you get back to normal try the ocean again.

You need MMSL and NMMNG for sure! Be the guy a woman would want to have an affair with in your next relationship. That will keep her around.

Also kids are a great way to meet woman. There are loads of single women at all the sports fields and gathering spots after the games. Don't go straight home, be sure to join the BBQ or social hours after the games. Volunteer with your kids. It's good for them and you. My kids and I volunteer at a charity that cleans the beaches etc. It's a great way to get involved and if I was single I could be dating loads of women just from this one charity alone. Just think of the women who love the beach. 

Just start thinking of yourself as a salesman and the more exposure you have the better your chances. Be where single women are. Also, I would suggest that you start reading gaming sites. Not so that you can be some predator but so that you can start recognizes women who are clearly interested in you but aren't going to walk up to you and ask you out. Plus you will learn how to carry yourself and project a very "alpha" self image.

Good luck man, your story breaks my heart so I really want you to win!!!


----------



## SF-FAN

What is MMSL and NMMNG?


----------



## naiveonedave

married mans sex life - Kay Athol
No more mister nice guy

Two books every man should read


----------



## SF-FAN

naiveonedave said:


> married mans sex life - Kay Athol
> No more mister nice guy
> 
> Two books every man should read


Already read Married Mans Sex Life and found it very helpful. I need to read No More Mister Nice Guy.


----------



## naiveonedave

I didn't read all of your thread, so I don't know how well NMMNG applies to you. Basically, if you don't put woman on a pedastal and are not a doormat, it may not apply. I think MMSLP applies for all men.

Nice Guy - avoids conflict at all costs, overly meets the needs of W, while not getting his met, doormat, etc.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SF-FAN said:


> Man...I don't know. I've always loved the ocean. I love the beach and everything about ocean life. If I could, I'd live near it. I'm still dealing with moving on from the act of the affair and now I have to try to move on from the location of it.


Simple. Stay away from the city/ocean for now. In time, once you've found a strong love interest, plan a long weekend there.

Then, once you're there, FVCK LIKE RABBITS!

Make a boat load of new memories. Then, in time, you go there with your love interest AND your kids. Make a boat load more of new memories.

Make it your, her, and your kids place. Ground always gets lost and is retaken during a battle.

Win enough battles and you'll win that war.


----------



## tom67

Go take a long weekend and hit lake tahoe. Maybe you will get lucky...ahh and win some money too.


----------



## SF-FAN

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Simple. Stay away from the city/ocean for now. In time, once you've found a strong love interest, plan a long weekend there.
> 
> Then, once you're there, FVCK LIKE RABBITS!
> 
> Make a boat load of new memories. Then, in time, you go there with your love interest AND your kids. Make a boat load more of new memories.
> 
> Make it your, her, and your kids place. Ground always gets lost and is retaken during a battle.
> 
> Win enough battles and you'll win that war.


Yeah, I planned to stay away for a while from the ocean and will likely never go back to that specific city until I am fully recovered.

I don't know but if I was going to cheat on my wife, I feel like I would still have the decency to go somewhere my wife/family and I haven't gone...


----------



## Rev. Clonn

People are creatures of habit, they like to go where they have been. To go back for comfort, that place was so fun I'd love to take "POSOM" to go see that.

Sorry, but there are a lot of beaches, all over the world. Find that cool some place new.


----------



## SF-FAN

Rev. Clonn said:


> People are creatures of habit, they like to go where they have been. To go back for comfort, that place was so fun I'd love to take "POSOM" to go see that.
> 
> Sorry, but there are a lot of beaches, all over the world. Find that cool some place new.


Yeah I guess you're right but it also takes a special POS to take the OM/OW to the same place you've gone to with your family/husband/wife. It's just despicable. I don't know, I just know that if I were that low to have an affair (which I'm not), I'd go somewhere that I haven't shared with my family. It just wouldn't feel right to me. Heck, if I went somewhere familiar with another woman, I may break down and tell her never mind because I'd feel super guilty from all the memories.


----------



## z_man

SF-FAN said:


> it also takes a special POS to take the OM/OW to the same place you've gone to with your family/husband/wife.


In my dating experience, I have been with chicks who would take me to places (and share experiences with) that they also went with previous boyfriends.

I interpreted that they were replacing the previous memory/experience/boyfriend with new memory/experience/boyfriend.

I really didn't think much about it at the time, because they all seemed to do it. It may have been just a comparison thing, in that, she had a good time previously, how does this new guy compare, does it generate the same feelings as previously. 

If it does, then it then becomes not about the guy, but the place or that the new guy passed some test when she gets the same feelings.

I do not know if there is a difference between bf/gf and husband/wife since I have no reference or experience with wives, other than my own.

However, we do share a very special spot where we first got together, that if anything happened between us and I found out she took some new guy there, I would be extremely p!ssed and heartbroken.

IDK if this makes sense, but its just mytwocents.


----------



## SF-FAN

z_man said:


> In my dating experience, I have been with chicks who would take me to places (and share experiences with) that they also went with previous boyfriends.
> 
> I interpreted that they were replacing the previous memory/experience/boyfriend with new memory/experience/boyfriend.
> 
> I really didn't think much about it at the time, because they all seemed to do it. It may have been just a comparison thing, in that, she had a good time previously, how does this new guy compare, does it generate the same feelings as previously.
> 
> If it does, then it then becomes not about the guy, but the place or that the new guy passed some test when she gets the same feelings.
> 
> I do not know if there is a difference between bf/gf and husband/wife since I have no reference or experience with wives, other than my own.
> 
> *However, we do share a very special spot where we first got together, that if anything happened between us and I found out she took some new guy there, I would be extremely p!ssed and heartbroken.*
> 
> IDK if this makes sense, but its just mytwocents.


That's exactly what I mean. I can see her taking a new guy to the same place we went to previously IF we divorced and she was dating someone new NOT take a guy there while cheating on me. That is just stupidity and being low down dirty. I mean common on, we've been there with the kids, shared good memories as a family more than once. It's just despicable to me and maybe I am just having a down day but it's been bothering me.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

SF-FAN said:


> That's exactly what I mean. I can see her taking a new guy to the same place we went to previously IF we divorced and she was dating someone new NOT take a guy there while cheating on me. That is just stupidity and being low down dirty. I mean common on, we've been there with the kids, shared good memories as a family more than once. It's just despicable to me and maybe I am just having a down day but it's been bothering me.


It should bother you. You have no clue who made the suggestion, but YOUR WIFE should have known better. 

They are both equally low down, on a bad day your wife would be worse in my book.


----------



## Chaparral

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It should bother you. You have no clue who made the suggestion, but YOUR WIFE should have known better.
> 
> They are both equally low down, on a bad day your wife would be worse in my book.


I'm surprised that by now you don't get how low cheaters are. She didn't think any more about you or your favorite place any more than cheaters think about using the marital home or bed.

What you need to do is wipe her off your boot like any other dog mess. She keeps showing you what she really is, trust me, sooner or later you will believe it, get over it, and be happy she's in your rearview mirror.


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: Found the evidence of wife having an affair*



Chaparral said:


> I'm surprised that by now you don't get how low cheaters are. She didn't think any more about you or your favorite place any more than cheaters think about using the marital home or bed.


Exactly this right here.


----------



## mahike

SF she is not the woman you thought she was. She is going to do things that make her happy give herself joy. She could care less about your feelings and your memories.

D or R there is pain that you have to endure. Just keep focus on the kids and yourself. Best of Luck!


----------



## cool12

thanks for the update.
i'm sorry about the ocean situation and i hope you can get over it one of these days. she isn't worth you losing that too.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

z_man said:


> In my dating experience, I have been with chicks who would take me to places (and share experiences with) that they also went with previous boyfriends.
> 
> I interpreted that they were replacing the previous memory/experience/boyfriend with new memory/experience/boyfriend.


Or more likely they are familiar with the place and feel comfortably there. They want to impress you so they want to be in a place they have experience with and possibly be able to show off. 

I've taken women to the same place before because I knew what to expect and had a routine down. This let me relax and be more confident not worry about my environment.


----------



## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> I'm surprised that by now you don't get how low cheaters are. She didn't think any more about you or your favorite place any more than cheaters think about using the marital home or bed.
> 
> What you need to do is wipe her off your boot like any other dog mess. She keeps showing you what she really is, trust me, sooner or later you will believe it, get over it, and be happy she's in your rearview mirror.


Like I said, I have been doing o.k. for the most part but I regress at times. Mind movies creep in and specific actions come back into my mind. Maybe because I don't have the answer of why she went there specifically or who suggested it even though it doesn't matter. They are both low down cheaters - guess it's part of the healing process?


----------



## See_Listen_Love

SF-FAN said:


> I haven't posted recently because there hasn't been much going on. I'm still trying to do the 180 and been fairly o.k. for the most part. I do have my relapses but trying to move forward.
> 
> I do have a question that maybe someone can give me some insight on. You may remember that WW took a weekend trip with the POSOM which is what started this thread. Anyway, their trip was to city by the ocean. I have always loved the ocean and that city as well. We've visited that city a few times, together, with our kids. So now anytime I even think of going anywhere by the ocean, I get a cringing feeling. The love I had for the ocean and that city in particular is tainted. All I can think of is the betrayal that happened in that city. What do I do to get over this?


Tony Robbins has some techniques in his books.

Basically you image everything together, all scenes, in your own mind movie. Then you start making a cartoon of every scene, make if funny and exaggerated, distorted to crazy proportions and behavior. Then you change the scene to ridicilous behavior and outcomes. This way you destroy memories that bug you.

I think the next step would be to imagine back what your earlier thoughts and feelings were you would like to have back and create a new warm and loving mind movie with that. You with the woman you love and that loves you at all the beautiful places. Imagine your wished situations and feelings and really feel how that is.

Read his techniques for better descriptions.


----------



## SF-FAN

See_Listen_Love said:


> Tony Robbins has some techniques in his books.
> 
> Basically you image everything together, all scenes, in your own mind movie. Then you start making a cartoon of every scene, make if funny and exaggerated, distorted to crazy proportions and behavior. Then you change the scene to ridicilous behavior and outcomes. This way you destroy memories that bug you.
> 
> I think the next step would be to imagine back what your earlier thoughts and feelings were you would like to have back and create a new warm and loving mind movie with that. You with the woman you love and that loves you at all the beautiful places. Imagine your wished situations and feelings and really feel how that is.
> 
> Read his techniques for better descriptions.


Thanks, I will definitely look into his techniques.


----------



## 3putt

See_Listen_Love said:


> Tony Robbins has some techniques in his books.
> 
> Basically you image everything together, all scenes, in your own mind movie. Then you start making a cartoon of every scene, make if funny and exaggerated, distorted to crazy proportions and behavior. Then you change the scene to ridicilous behavior and outcomes. This way you destroy memories that bug you.
> 
> I think the next step would be to imagine back what your earlier thoughts and feelings were you would like to have back and create a new warm and loving mind movie with that. You with the woman you love and that loves you at all the beautiful places. Imagine your wished situations and feelings and really feel how that is.
> 
> Read his techniques for better descriptions.


This reminds me of the Soulmate Schmoopies. This BW really found a clever way to cope with the memories and mind movies. Funny stuff. 16 parts.

*NSFW language.*

PART 1: WH and OW–Our Love is Real | Soul Mate Shmoopies


----------



## badmemory

SF-FAN said:


> That's exactly what I mean. I can see her taking a new guy to the same place we went to previously IF we divorced and she was dating someone new NOT take a guy there while cheating on me. That is just stupidity and being low down dirty. I mean common on, we've been there with the kids, shared good memories as a family more than once. It's just despicable to me and maybe I am just having a down day but it's been bothering me.


I understand SF-FAN.

But think about it. If the POSOM asked her to go to your special place, and she told him; "I can't do that, that would be disrespectful to my husband"; wouldn't that make you laugh?


----------



## SF-FAN

badmemory said:


> I understand SF-FAN.
> 
> But think about it. If the POSOM asked her to go to your special place, and she told him; "I can't do that, that would be disrespectful to my husband"; wouldn't that make you laugh?


Of course, it's kind of an oxymoron I guess...expecting her to show some kind of decency while cheating. It's stupid reasoning. I guess if I was in her position (which I would not be) and the OW suggested a place my wife and I had been, I'd probably suggest something else...I dunno, it's my mind just doing the why/if/when/how type of thinking.


----------



## mahike

If you try and figure out what she is thinking and why you are just going to drive yourself nuts! 

Work on new traditions with your kids, make new memories.


----------



## bfree

mahike said:


> *If you try and figure out what she is thinking and why you are just going to drive yourself nuts!*
> 
> Work on new traditions with your kids, make new memories.


Got that right!


----------



## SF-FAN

mahike said:


> If you try and figure out what she is thinking and why you are just going to drive yourself nuts!
> 
> Work on new traditions with your kids, make new memories.


Very true...it'll take some time but it will happen, I'm sure.


----------



## SF-FAN

Alright, weekend was boring to say the least. Rained all weekend so not much to do. However, my self-esteem has now reached a new low. I know a couple that are divorcing and have talked to the guy about it and he is basically going through the same thing as me. She cheated on him and now has a new BF. Anyway I accidentally text her this weekend and when she text back I thought to myself, "let me get a girl's point of view on this situation, it might help." Well when I asked her for advice, she told me "I know you are going through a hard time right now, but I don't think that would be a good idea."

WTF?? Did she think I was trying to pick up on her? A girl that cheated on her husband and now has a BF when the divorce is not even final turned me down for simple advice! I had NO intention of flirting, coming on to her or anything of that nature at all but get rejected for simple advice. I guess I must be the most undesirable person in the whole world that a girl won't even talk to me to give me advice. I was blown away.


----------



## vi_bride04

Don't let that affect you too much - you were rejected by a cheater. You don't want someone in your life like that to talk to anyways


----------



## Chaparral

SF-FAN said:


> Alright, weekend was boring to say the least. Rained all weekend so not much to do. However, my self-esteem has now reached a new low. I know a couple that are divorcing and have talked to the guy about it and he is basically going through the same thing as me. She cheated on him and now has a new BF. Anyway I accidentally text her this weekend and when she text back I thought to myself, "let me get a girl's point of view on this situation, it might help." Well when I asked her for advice, she told me "I know you are going through a hard time right now, but I don't think that would be a good idea."
> 
> WTF?? Did she think I was trying to pick up on her? A girl that cheated on her husband and now has a BF when the divorce is not even final turned me down for simple advice! I had NO intention of flirting, coming on to her or anything of that nature at all but get rejected for simple advice. I guess I must be the most undesirable person in the whole world that a girl won't even talk to me to give me advice. I was blown away.


You asked a cheating wh°re for advice. Get ptsd counseling. I think you are indulging yourself in self pity.


----------



## mahike

just be thankful it did not go the other way and some type of relationship started.

I get being down. You have a lot to get through. I know it was raining but get out of the house. Do something new.


----------



## Mike11

Why are you engaging her at all ?

you have no idea how weak this is coming across to her, it shows that you are still pace value on her and her opinions, and you come across as needy even if you are not 

stay away and show her how alpha you can be by not engaging her at all


----------



## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> You asked a cheating wh°re for advice. Get ptsd counseling. I think you are indulging yourself in self pity.


Well I guess when you put it that way, that was stupid of me but I just wanted to pick a cheating hore's brain...that isn't my WW to get some type of insight. It was a down weekend so what can I say.


----------



## SF-FAN

Mike11 said:


> Why are you engaging her at all ?
> 
> you have no idea how weak this is coming across to her, it shows that you are still pace value on her and her opinions, and you come across as needy even if you are not
> 
> stay away and show her how alpha you can be by not engaging her at all


It wasn't my WW Mike. It was a girl that I know who basically did the same thing my WW did. I know her and her STBXH both but would never try anything with her....nothing like that at all.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Well I guess when you put it that way, that was stupid of me but I just wanted to pick a cheating hore's brain...that isn't my WW to get some type of insight. It was a down weekend so what can I say.


So hard to keep up on everyone situation, so sorry if you answered this already. But have you gone to counseling yet?? As others have pointed out, you contacted a WW for advice on your situation. Are you insane? Why dont you write Jeffrey Dhamer for advice on picking out a good piece of meat. Please start working on getting stronger mentally and physically.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> So hard to keep up on everyone situation, so sorry if you answered this already. But have you gone to counseling yet?? As others have pointed out, you contacted a WW for advice on your situation. Are you insane? Why dont you write Jeffrey Dhamer for advice on picking out a good piece of meat. Please start working on getting stronger mentally and physically.


Yes, I started counseling but with Obama Care I can no longer afford it as my insurance doesn't cover it anymore. I wasn't too impressed with it anyway. I have my good days and bad days and yeah I though picking the mind of a WW might help give me some insight - though in hindsight it wasn't a good idea - at the time I thought it might be. Kind of like interviewing a killer to be a step ahead of another killer....I dunno, stupid I guess.


----------



## badmemory

SF-FAN said:


> Alright, weekend was boring to say the least. Rained all weekend so not much to do. However, my self-esteem has now reached a new low. I know a couple that are divorcing and have talked to the guy about it and he is basically going through the same thing as me. She cheated on him and now has a new BF. Anyway I accidentally text her this weekend and when she text back I thought to myself, "let me get a girl's point of view on this situation, it might help." Well when I asked her for advice, she told me "I know you are going through a hard time right now, but I don't think that would be a good idea."
> 
> WTF?? Did she think I was trying to pick up on her? A girl that cheated on her husband and now has a BF when the divorce is not even final turned me down for simple advice! I had NO intention of flirting, coming on to her or anything of that nature at all but get rejected for simple advice. I guess I must be the most undesirable person in the whole world that a girl won't even talk to me to give me advice. I was blown away.


Okay, let's say she had decided to talk to you. What do you think she would have told you. Chances are, the same thing cheaters tell themselves and others. That she wasn't happy, the reasons she did it, what a bad husband he was, all the rationalizations.

I would imagine the reason she doesn't want to talk to you, is that it would be extremely uncomfortable for her to rehash - with a BS that personifies what she did to her husband. Don't take it personally. She did you a favor.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Found the evidence of wife having an affair*



SF-FAN said:


> Well I guess when you put it that way, that was stupid of me but I just wanted to pick a cheating hore's brain...that isn't my WW to get some type of insight. It was a down weekend so what can I say.


Don't pick at it. You might catch something.


----------



## SF-FAN

badmemory said:


> Okay, let's say she had decided to talk to you. What do you think she would have told you. Chances are, the same thing cheaters tell themselves and others. That she wasn't happy, the reasons she did it, what a bad husband he was, all the rationalizations.
> 
> I would imagine the reason she doesn't want to talk to you, is that it would be extremely uncomfortable for her to rehash - with a BS that personifies what she did to her husband. Don't take it personally. She did you a favor.


Very true. I guess I took her not wanting to talk to me a different way...like I have got to be truly undesirable if a girl that cheated on her husband more than once and left him for another guy won't even talk to me. 

I've been trying to be more outgoing, talking to strangers just to make conversation, very light nothing creepy and some convos have gone better than others but I honestly I just feel like no one that I talk to (female) has any interest in me other than the small talk....not sure what is going on.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Very true. I guess I took her not wanting to talk to me a different way...like I have got to be truly undesirable if a girl that cheated on her husband more than once and left him for another guy won't even talk to me.
> 
> I've been trying to be more outgoing, talking to strangers just to make conversation, very light nothing creepy and some convos have gone better than others but I honestly I just feel like no one that I talk to (female) has any interest in me other than the small talk....not sure what is going on.


You still have the stench on ya. It takes time. Im sure you are tired of my self improvement cheer. However, If I were you, Id be worrying more about what I can bench or if my 6 pack is visible then I would about girls. Everyone says to go out and get laid....for some of us, its easier said then done. You start scratching off goals (ie fitness goals, finish a class, read REAL book, plan a month to hike part of Muir or Pac Coast trail). These things make you interesting and desirable. When you look fit and start off a conversation with "i just spent a month hiking in the sierras..had some close calls." Or I rode my dirt bike to baja last month. chicks will fightin each other for ya


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> You still have the stench on ya. It takes time. Im sure you are tired of my self improvement cheer. However, If I were you, Id be worrying more about what I can bench or if my 6 pack is visible then I would about girls. Everyone says to go out and get laid....for some of us, its easier said then done. You start scratching off goals (ie fitness goals, finish a class, read REAL book, plan a month to hike part of Muir or Pac Coast trail). These things make you interesting and desirable. When you look fit and start off a conversation with "i just spent a month hiking in the sierras..had some close calls." Or I rode my dirt bike to baja last month. chicks will fightin each other for ya


That's good advice. I do work out but my heart hasn't been in it lately. I have lost weight but it's from heartache and stress more than working out. I guess it's all on me, I need to get motivated and do things. That was an issue in our marriage, the fact that I always let her do the planning and wasn't outgoing enough to plan something myself. I need to figure out a way to be independent again...I mean I do live alone so it's sink or swim. Not only that, when the kids are with me, I start the "wonder if he's with her" thinking...Geez I hate myself sometimes.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> That's good advice. I do work out but my heart hasn't been in it lately. I have lost weight but it's from heartache and stress more than working out. I guess it's all on me, I need to get motivated and do things. That was an issue in our marriage, the fact that I always let her do the planning and wasn't outgoing enough to plan something myself. I need to figure out a way to be independent again...I mean I do live alone so it's sink or swim. Not only that, when the kids are with me, I start the "wonder if he's with her" thinking...Geez I hate myself sometimes.


dude, you just need an action plan. Start small, but stick with it. Example - for 4 weeks, plan to walk out your front door at 6am and go for a walk (come hell or high water). Take your iGaget or whatever you have and find something to listen to. I usually go for political talk radio or sports talk radio - it helps me stay on top of current issues (and the giants/niners/a's/sharks/warriors/kings) whatever it is, you kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Walk in your door at 645, coffee, breakfast, start your day. Takes 3 weeks to form a habit ( or something like that). After a month, turn that into going to the gym or better yet, stick with the walk in the AM and make lunch time gym time. 

2 more MUSTS for your first action plan. 1) TV/computer off at 9 every night and grab a book 2) lights out for bed at 10. 

If you do those 3 things for 4 weeks - Read, sleep, walk - Im tellin ya, you will be back on this board by summer time talkin about how good you feel.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> dude, you just need an action plan. Start small, but stick with it. Example - for 4 weeks, plan to walk out your front door at 6am and go for a walk (come hell or high water). Take your iGaget or whatever you have and find something to listen to. I usually go for political talk radio or sports talk radio - it helps me stay on top of current issues (and the giants/niners/a's/sharks/warriors/kings) whatever it is, you kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Walk in your door at 645, coffee, breakfast, start your day. Takes 3 weeks to form a habit ( or something like that). After a month, turn that into going to the gym or better yet, stick with the walk in the AM and make lunch time gym time.
> 
> 2 more MUSTS for your first action plan. 1) TV/computer off at 9 every night and grab a book 2) lights out for bed at 10.
> 
> If you do those 3 things for 4 weeks - Read, sleep, walk - Im tellin ya, you will be back on this board by summer time talkin about how good you feel.


Thanks for the plan, I will put that into action tonight. My life has become too menial, I need a shake-up.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Working out at a big anonymous gym sucks. Find a gym buddy or better yet join a place like crossfit. You'll find reasons to go.


----------



## happi_g_more2

U.E. McGill said:


> Working out at a big anonymous gym sucks. Find a gym buddy or better yet join a place like crossfit. You'll find reasons to go.


I wish i had a crossfit type place when i was younger. I spent way too many hours guessing my way through nutrition and training. Not to mention doing the same large muscle movements. I guess like just about everyone else in the 80's. Crossfit (or similar type gym) would be a fantastic idea when you are ready!!


----------



## SF-FAN

U.E. McGill said:


> Working out at a big anonymous gym sucks. Find a gym buddy or better yet join a place like crossfit. You'll find reasons to go.





happi_g_more2 said:


> I wish i had a crossfit type place when i was younger. I spent way too many hours guessing my way through nutrition and training. Not to mention doing the same large muscle movements. I guess like just about everyone else in the 80's. Crossfit (or similar type gym) would be a fantastic idea when you are ready!!


There are several options where I live so I am going to leave my old gym (which is outdated) and look for a new alternative. In the meantime, I've ran, did some cardio and weight lifted. I stay pretty active with my kids since they play sports and also don't eat too unhealthy. I used to weigh 190 and I'm 5'7", now I weigh 140. I was a gym rat for several years but have calmed down a bit. Need to hit it hard again.


----------



## SF-FAN

Had a thought last night and I'd really love some input:

I was thinking about how much more negatives there are than positives when it comes to my WW, I mean it's not even close so why does it hurt to not have her? I don't get it. In any other decision, when negatives outweigh the positives, it's a no brainer. I don't get it.


----------



## Rev. Clonn

Dude, 
It's Drugs. 
Your mind causes your body to release chemicals into your system. These endorphins cause lust and love feelings.
We are designed to pair bond for a certain amount of time. This was originally so children could grow up and live through the weak time of their life. 
Her pair bonding has worn off. 
Yours hasn't. So your body is still making the drugs that make you love her. 
To be fair her body started making her think she loves POSOM.
That was a stronger drug response than her love for you.
You are still addicted to her, so facts don't mean as much to you when it sees her. 
Just as it is to her when she sees OM.
If you think of yourself this way it all becomes clearer. You can recover from this, and you will need your "fix" less and less each day you don't get it. But you could become addicted to another or many others. Some guys get the "fix" from the chase and conquest, without pair bonding.
Only you can decide what works for you.
After my first wife died I had the worst time finding a woman who both gave me my "fix" and who was a good mother to my children. took a couple of years but it did happen.
Time heals all wounds. Praying for you man.


----------



## SF-FAN

Rev. Clonn said:


> Dude,
> It's Drugs.
> Your mind causes your body to release chemicals into your system. These endorphins cause lust and love feelings.
> We are designed to pair bond for a certain amount of time. This was originally so children could grow up and live through the weak time of their life.
> Her pair bonding has worn off.
> Yours hasn't. So your body is still making the drugs that make you love her.
> To be fair her body started making her think she loves POSOM.
> That was a stronger drug response than her love for you.
> You are still addicted to her, so facts don't mean as much to you when it sees her.
> Just as it is to her when she sees OM.
> If you think of yourself this way it all becomes clearer. You can recover from this, and you will need your "fix" less and less each day you don't get it. But you could become addicted to another or many others. Some guys get the "fix" from the chase and conquest, without pair bonding.
> Only you can decide what works for you.
> After my first wife died I had the worst time finding a woman who both gave me my "fix" and who was a good mother to my children. took a couple of years but it did happen.
> Time heals all wounds. Praying for you man.


Thanks, makes a lot of sense. Just listing her negatives and positives helped me think a bit about why exactly I want her. It's lust and like you said the chemicals that my brain/body releases. I just have to think like a drug user and quit.


----------



## warlock07

> ..like I have got to be truly undesirable if a girl that cheated on her husband more than once and left him for another guy won't even talk to me.


this is retarded logic


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks, makes a lot of sense. Just listing her negatives and positives helped me think a bit about why exactly I want her. It's lust and like you said the chemicals that my brain/body releases. I just have to think like a drug user and quit.


It's simple. You still were in love with her when you found out that she was cheating on you/Left you. You've only just recently starting to work on "getting over her".

She had probably already "gotten over you" before she started going PA (months/years ago).

She's had a head start in a race that you didn't even know you were entered in.


----------



## happi_g_more2

warlock07 said:


> this is retarded logic


I dont like this analogy.


Retards have better logic then that


----------



## SF-FAN

warlock07 said:


> this is retarded logic


I dip to a bad place from time to time. Just feel like the most undesirable man to women right now but it's been explained why. I am not in an emotional place to be attracting anyone.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> I dip to a bad place from time to time. Just feel like the most undesirable man to women right now but it's been explained why. I am not in an emotional place to be attracting anyone.


Winner winner. Now get back to your schedule. Turn on the giants game, relax, go to bed, wake up, turn on KNBR and go for your walk


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SF-FAN said:


> I dip to a bad place from time to time. Just feel like the most undesirable man to women right now but it's been explained why. I am not in an emotional place to be attracting anyone.


Maybe the problem isn't what women will think of you.

It could be that you don't like what YOU think of you, right now anyway...

I wondered what the hell was wrong with myself after my ex-wife left me. I took me about 5 months, but I came to the conclusion that, as flawed as I was, my ex cheating on, then leaving me was caused by HER flaws. She took the coward's way out.

We're guys. We analyze, diagnose and repair. Cause and effect. We don't just talk about our problems. We try to fix things. If there are things that you'd like to change about you, NOW is the time to start.

A lot of time, it's physical appearance and health that we work on first. That's our billboard for all the passing lady cars. Start revamping your billboard. Get 'em gawking at what you're lookng to sell.

What is it? do you think that you need to loose weight? Gain weight? Remedy a disorder, or ailment?

So you lift/workout, change diet and exercise. I don't know your specifics, but I went vegan for 6 months and is made a WORLD of difference for me. I still do it every 2/3 years. I give up animal products for about 6-12 months. The purge really helps. It's probably the main reason why reason I'm still here(you'e mileage may vary  ).

Do something to get you moving forward and out of this fluctuating rut you're in right now.


----------



## U.E. McGill

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> It's simple. You still were in love with her when you found out that she was cheating on you/Left you. You've only just recently starting to work on "getting over her".
> 
> 
> 
> She had probably already "gotten over you" before she started going PA (months/years ago).
> 
> 
> 
> She's had a head start in a race that you didn't even know you were entered in.



The chemistry of love is a powerful thing. That's why it's even more important to get to the gym. Intense conditioning will be the first step for replacing those lost endorphins of love. 

While a previous poster went vegan, I personally went paleo. I have more energy, and zero malaise since changing my diet. So find something that works for you. 

Personally I think a good workout and diet are a 1000 times better than any IC.


----------



## LongWalk

TAM doesn't cost anything.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> I dip to a bad place from time to time. Just feel like the most undesirable man to women right now but it's been explained why. I am not in an emotional place to be attracting anyone.


so quit trying to attract someone for a while. you're not ready.
just bc she's ready to jump into a rship with someone else doesn't mean you have to too.
focus on creating a new life for you and your kids. spend time learning something new, exploring different parts of your city, seeing live music, taking classes at a community college or whatever you are interested in.

plz, for all of us that would love to have the time to do these things but have very little free time, do them! have fun! you're too frkin young to be so mopey. 

i like the cross fit idea. very supportive community there. i love to dance but not at clubs so i dance my ass off at ecstatic dance once a week and it does wonders for me. great exercise and super accepting community. i know that's available in your city.

it's time to live again!


----------



## SF-FAN

cool12 said:


> so quit trying to attract someone for a while. you're not ready.
> just bc she's ready to jump into a rship with someone else doesn't mean you have to too.
> focus on creating a new life for you and your kids. spend time learning something new, exploring different parts of your city, seeing live music, taking classes at a community college or whatever you are interested in.
> 
> plz, for all of us that would love to have the time to do these things but have very little free time, do them! have fun! you're too frkin young to be so mopey.
> 
> i like the cross fit idea. very supportive community there. i love to dance but not at clubs so i dance my ass off at ecstatic dance once a week and it does wonders for me. great exercise and super accepting community. i know that's available in your city.
> 
> it's time to live again!


According to my WW in the few arguments we previously had, she is not with anyone or seeing anyone. EVERYONE found out about her affair, everyone at her work as well so I don't know if they ended it or it just went further underground but regardless, I don't trust her.

I am not trying to compete with my WW, it would just be nice to have someone to talk to even if it is not to get into a relationship. Truth be told, I don't want another relationship right now. I guess I just want a distraction.

I have started working out more though and have started occupying my time with things other than just tv. I guess I just miss the companionship.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> According to my WW in the few arguments we previously had, she is not with anyone or seeing anyone. EVERYONE found out about her affair, everyone at her work as well so I don't know if they ended it or it just went further underground but regardless, I don't trust her.
> 
> I am not trying to compete with my WW, it would just be nice to have someone to talk to even if it is not to get into a relationship. Truth be told, I don't want another relationship right now. I guess I just want a distraction.
> 
> I have started working out more though and have started occupying my time with things other than just tv. I guess I just miss the companionship.


Just keep remembering that companionship will be the reward. If you keep working on yourself, it will come out of left field. You just dont sound like a guy thats gonna be alone for long (well, except when you get in that place where you allow your self esteem to plummet....then you DO sound like a guy thats gonna be alone for a long time


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> Just keep remembering that companionship will be the reward. If you keep working on yourself, it will come out of left field. You just dont sound like a guy thats gonna be alone for long (well, except when you get in that place where you allow your self esteem to plummet....then you DO sound like a guy thats gonna be alone for a long time


I'm not Brad Pitt but I am also not a troll so eventually it will happen. It's just harder and harder to meet good women and actually form a good relationship with them. It's hard but for the most part, I am trying. I am in a way better place then years ago. Years ago, I would have just stayed in bed and rotted.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> I'm not Brad Pitt but I am also not a troll so eventually it will happen. It's just harder and harder to meet good women and actually form a good relationship with them. It's hard but for the most part, I am trying. I am in a way better place then years ago. Years ago, I would have just stayed in bed and rotted.


I doubt that. When i mentally put myself in situations i think, there is no way i could have done that. Then I constantly surprise myself when Im successful at things. Its just part of low self esteem. I battle it myself so I recognize it when i see it


----------



## Rev. Clonn

SF-FAN said:


> I'm not Brad Pitt but I am also not a troll so eventually it will happen. It's just harder and harder to meet good women and actually form a good relationship with them. It's hard but for the most part, I am trying. I am in a way better place then years ago. Years ago, I would have just stayed in bed and rotted.


Dude,
Did you not see my avatar pic, If I can get ladies with one eye and nearly square, sallow yellow skin, and a 12 word vocabulary you can too.
Also my extremely limited earning potential as a pastor to yellow pills in my community 

Really, you are a catch, you can do it. there is somebody for every body and the chemicals will cause an attraction as long as you don't crawl under a bridge and stay there, mentally either


----------



## SF-FAN

Rev. Clonn said:


> Dude,
> Did you not see my avatar pic, If I can get ladies with one eye and nearly square, sallow yellow skin, and a 12 word vocabulary you can too.
> Also my extremely limited earning potential as a pastor to yellow pills in my community
> 
> Really, you are a catch, you can do it. there is somebody for every body and the chemicals will cause an attraction as long as you don't crawl under a bridge and stay there, mentally either


Thanks, I know it will happen. It's just a hard transition to go through. The longest relationship before this one was 6 years and it was not a marriage and thankfully no kids involved and that one was hard to get over so this marriage with children for over 9 years is new territory.

Just have to stay positive!


----------



## happi_g_more2

This may seem extreme to you (others?) but maybe you should put TAM down for a few days. See if you can go 3 days. Seems like you are on here all day? Does your job allow it? I cant remember if you are a work at home guy or not. If you are, see if you can get back into an office. If you are in an office, see if you can go mill around and talk to folks when you feel like posting on here. Anyway, just a thought...but might help you get back out there.


----------



## hospitality

Go where women are. A great conversation with a completely unattractive woman after crossfit will make you feel great. If you do this often enough you most likely will end up having a wonderful conversation with an amazing woman without even trying. Just go where positive attractive people go. You will take on their persona.


----------



## happi_g_more2

hospitality said:


> Go where women are. A great conversation with a completely unattractive woman after crossfit will make you feel great. If you do this often enough you most likely will end up having a wonderful conversation with an amazing woman without even trying. Just go where positive attractive people go. You will take on their persona.


I agree. Look for wedding rings. Start with chicks that have them (no pressure, no threat) then move on to those without them


----------



## SF-FAN

Thanks to all. I took some step backs last night. Was alone and really feeling it so I text her unloading all my anger telling her it was her fault that she tore our family apart and that I would never forgive her nor will the kids. I hope she lives a miserable existence because karma will get her....

I know, I messed up, but just feeling very down, the worst I've felt in a long time. I'm taking everyone's advice and working out, doing different things but it just helps for a little while.

BTW, I do work in an office but have the flexibility to be on here throughout the day (not all day). Just helps vent. It's a small office of 3 employees so not too many people to talk to here.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks to all. I took some step backs last night. Was alone and really feeling it so I text her unloading all my anger telling her it was her fault that she tore our family apart and that I would never forgive her nor will the kids. I hope she lives a miserable existence because karma will get her....
> 
> I know, I messed up, but just feeling very down, the worst I've felt in a long time. I'm taking everyone's advice and working out, doing different things but it just helps for a little while.
> 
> BTW, I do work in an office but have the flexibility to be on here throughout the day (not all day). Just helps vent. It's a small office of 3 employees so not too many people to talk to here.


All the better. Take your breaks outside, walk around. Look, i dont find the text to your WW to be a bad thing. You are NEVER getting back together with that tramp. Your relationship with her is over. There is nothing left for you to hide. So take a couple of parting shots across her bow. Your end game is 2-5 years from now. You HAVE to win!!!! You have to be in a spot where you are happy and successful and in a relationship and she is still bar hoping and being used by low lives. If you havent already, read through Shamwow's 2 threads on here. Thread 1 is his discovery, thread 2 is post divorce. they are very uplifting. Hard to read, but uplifting in the end


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> All the better. Take your breaks outside, walk around. Look, i dont find the text to your WW to be a bad thing. You are NEVER getting back together with that tramp. Your relationship with her is over. There is nothing left for you to hide. So take a couple of parting shots across her bow. Your end game is 2-5 years from now. You HAVE to win!!!! You have to be in a spot where you are happy and successful and in a relationship and she is still bar hoping and being used by low lives. If you havent already, read through Shamwow's 2 threads on here. Thread 1 is his discovery, thread 2 is post divorce. they are very uplifting. Hard to read, but uplifting in the end


I don't think I have read his posts, I will check them out. Thanks.

There are little things that bring me positive vibes like going to the bank and a pretty teller making small talk with me, things of that nature but as far as really conversating with someone only for conversation, I have not really found anyone to do that with.


----------



## weightlifter

Whyeme's thread is another with an AWFUL start and an epic ending.

He is boffing the sh!t out of his new girlfriend.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Found the evidence of wife having an affair*



weightlifter said:


> Whyeme's thread is another with an AWFUL start and an epic ending.
> 
> He is boffing the sh!t out of his new girlfriend.


Yeah he is! Lol


----------



## LongWalk

How are things with the kids?

Two are not yours biologically. How is that affecting the situation?

She's a hypergamy girl. There is no escaping that fact. OM will also be cast aside if she remains sexually active.


----------



## weightlifter

double


----------



## weightlifter

LOVE the part where Whyeme was boffing new GF while his stbxw was in labor with POSOMs baby!

Now THAT is epic.


----------



## SF-FAN

LongWalk said:


> How are things with the kids?
> 
> Two are not yours biologically. How is that affecting the situation?
> 
> She's a hypergamy girl. There is no escaping that fact. OM will also be cast aside if she remains sexually active.


The kids want to see us together plain and simple. They are kids and just want to see their parents under the same roof. The two that are not biologically mine may as well be because I've raised them since they were babies which makes it that much harder.

Now that EVERYONE knows about her affair, either it's over or just way underground. The town we live in is way too small and we both have family all over so she'd get caught immediately. BUT don't count out a cheater that has not heart.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> LOVE the part where Whyeme was boffing new GF while his stbxw was in labor with POSOMs baby!
> 
> Now THAT is epic.


Yes, I read that one. Definitely a great ending!!


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Yes, I read that one. Definitely a great ending!!


It could be yours too. You just have to get out there.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> It could be yours too. You just have to get out there.


I do try. This dreaded little town doesn't have much to offer though. I am on a roller coaster right now as well so some days I am loving life, and others I am down in the dumps. That has a lot to do with it.


----------



## bandit.45

Do what you can. Force yourself to get out there and socialize. There is someone waiting and ready for you. She will be a total surprise too. You won't see it coming.


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> I don't think I have read his posts, I will check them out. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> There are little things that bring me positive vibes like going to the bank and a pretty teller making small talk with me, things of that nature but as far as really conversating with someone only for conversation, I have not really found anyone to do that with.



Here's what I've found out. Men need the support and no bull shît attitude of other men. You need someone who will straight up tell you "your an @sshole" if you need it. Find a safe guy. You'll find someone like that can be better than even your wife (the wife you want not your current one). 

Just like women, it's a numbers game. Put yourself out there. Try a bunch of things. Hobbies, clubs, service orgs. Whatever. It may take a couple of try's, and believe me, there's a bunch of flakes, but you'll find a couple of good friends. 

Did you say you have a brother?


----------



## SF-FAN

U.E. McGill said:


> Here's what I've found out. Men need the support and no bull shît attitude of other men. You need someone who will straight up tell you "your an @sshole" if you need it. Find a safe guy. You'll find someone like that can be better than even your wife (the wife you want not your current one).
> 
> Just like women, it's a numbers game. Put yourself out there. Try a bunch of things. Hobbies, clubs, service orgs. Whatever. It may take a couple of try's, and believe me, there's a bunch of flakes, but you'll find a couple of good friends.
> 
> Did you say you have a brother?


No, no siblings and unfortunately all my friends are married with kids so weekends with them don't exist. I feel like my WW just really took my life out from underneath me. Seems like if people talked to me before, they don't know...kind of weird. It has nothing to do with my marriage, it's just dumb luck.


----------



## Chaparral

What kind of towns are around you? How big is the town you live in?


----------



## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> What kind of towns are around you? How big is the town you live in?


Not very big. There is a "city" about 45 minutes away but other than that, the towns around are very small. Everyone knows everyone so meeting someone new is tough.


----------



## SF-FAN

Ok, need your feedback as I just had a moment where I think I might have shot myself in the foot. So there is this cute bank teller that I chat with when I go in, she chats back and is friendly, there is a definite vibe but I know she was married so I never over stepped that boundary. So today I noticed she was not wearing her wedding ring so I tell her "your hubby's going to be mad at you, you forgot your wedding ring today" and she says "no need for wedding ring anymore." I didn't ask why but she intimated her marriage was over. Towards the end, I asked for her email but I told her, "please don't think I'm trying pick up on you, just asking if you'd like to contact me via email to vent" and she says "it's too soon."

So needless to say, I think I creeped her out. Did I get to anxious, did I blow any possible future friendship?


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> Ok, need your feedback as I just had a moment where I think I might have shot myself in the foot. So there is this cute bank teller that I chat with when I go in, she chats back and is friendly, there is a definite vibe but I know she was married so I never over stepped that boundary. So today I noticed she was not wearing her wedding ring so I tell her "your hubby's going to be mad at you, you forgot your wedding ring today" and she says "no need for wedding ring anymore." I didn't ask why but she intimated her marriage was over. Towards the end, I asked for her email but I told her, "please don't think I'm trying pick up on you, just asking if you'd like to contact me via email to vent" and she says "it's too soon."
> 
> So needless to say, I think I creeped her out. Did I get to anxious, did I blow any possible future friendship?


Eh next time you go in ask her out for coffee or something casual.
Don't mention the last time you talked with her.
All she can do is say no.


----------



## SF-FAN

tom67 said:


> Eh next time you go in ask her out for coffee or something casual.
> Don't mention the last time you talked with her.
> All she can do is say no.


Not going to lie, felt a sense of happiness but concern when she told me she didn't need her wedding ring anymore. 

Happiness because like an idiot, I immediately thought that possibly her and I can talk in the future and concern because going through what I am going through, I feel bad for others going through the same because it sucks. 

I just feel I acted in desperation and feel like a looser!


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Not very big. There is a "city" about 45 minutes away but other than that, the towns around are very small. Everyone knows everyone so meeting someone new is tough.


is moving an option for you?. 20 mins from home, 20 from city?


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> please don't think I'm trying pick up on you, just asking if you'd like to contact me via email to vent





SF-FAN said:


> Not going to lie, felt a sense of happiness but concern when she told me she didn't need her wedding ring anymore.
> 
> Happiness because like an idiot, I immediately thought that possibly her and I can talk in the future and concern because going through what I am going through, I feel bad for others going through the same because it sucks.
> 
> I just feel I acted in desperation and feel like a looser!


in your head it sounds like "Im really not a creepy guy asking you out right now, but can i have your email address"

in her head it sounds like "boy oh boy, can I fvuck you next?!?!"


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> is moving an option for you?. 20 mins from home, 20 from city?


I wouldn't want to. I live very close to my new job and am close to my kids' school and their activities. Plus I just moved into a nicer home with a 1 year lease.

Don't get me wrong, if I could, I'd move to southern california in a heartbeat but don't want to be away from my kids, especially with a heartless mother that they have.


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> Ok, need your feedback as I just had a moment where I think I might have shot myself in the foot. So there is this cute bank teller that I chat with when I go in, she chats back and is friendly, there is a definite vibe but I know she was married so I never over stepped that boundary. So today I noticed she was not wearing her wedding ring so I tell her "your hubby's going to be mad at you, you forgot your wedding ring today" and she says "no need for wedding ring anymore." I didn't ask why but she intimated her marriage was over. Towards the end, I asked for her email but I told her, "please don't think I'm trying pick up on you, just asking if you'd like to contact me via email to vent" and she says "it's too soon."
> 
> 
> 
> So needless to say, I think I creeped her out. Did I get to anxious, did I blow any possible future friendship?



Remember it's not rejection. It's information. She gave you an in by telling you here status. She could have easily said "ha, their at the jewelers". 

Don't tell her your not trying to pick her up. YOU ARE! Don't sell yourself short. 

Your critical mistake? Telling her "you can contact me to vent". Do you want to be her girlfriend with a penis?


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> in your head it sounds like "Im really not a creepy guy asking you out right now, but can i have your email address"
> 
> in her head it sounds like "boy oh boy, can I fvuck you next?!?!"


Awww man...yeah, that's about right though I don't have that intention. Just from our brief conversations, she and I appear to have a lot in common and she is the type I'd like to get to know slowly and see where it goes but yeah, you're right, I think I sounded pretty desperate.


----------



## SF-FAN

U.E. McGill said:


> Remember it's not rejection. It's information. She gave you an in by telling you here status. She could have easily said "ha, their at the jewelers".
> 
> Don't tell her your not trying to pick her up. YOU ARE! Don't sell yourself short.
> 
> Your critical mistake? Telling her "you can contact me to vent". Do you want to be her girlfriend with a penis?


Well when I first met this acquaintance and got to talking with her and found out she was married, to me she was not ever going to be an option, so finding out that her and her husband are not "together" made me act like a fool, like a kid being told they do get ice cream after being told no. 

I just feel stupid, but in hindsight, she just split up from her husband and they have kids, so chances are they will be together again (unless he/she did something unforgivable) in which case, I am better off if she did something. If something is meant to be, it will happen.

Ugghh


----------



## Tobyboy

I think you came across confident. You planted a seed....keep watering it.... It will sprout!
It might be "too soon" for her, continue being friendly and confident. Chicks dig that sh!t.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Tobyboy said:


> I think you came across confident. You planted a seed....keep watering it.... It will sprout!
> It might be "too soon" for her, continue being friendly and confident. Chicks dig that sh!t.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can do it SF small talk cool and confident.
Bring a beagle puppy with you.


----------



## SF-FAN

Tobyboy said:


> I think you came across confident. You planted a seed....keep watering it.... It will sprout!
> It might be "too soon" for her, continue being friendly and confident. Chicks dig that sh!t.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





tom67 said:


> You can do it SF small talk cool and confident.
> Bring a beagle puppy with you.


Well previously, I had mentioned my situation but don't constantly bring it up so she knows about me. Otherwise, I am pretty confident and our brief conversations are witty, flirtatious and light so we'll see. It just sucks that I have to deal with my WW and couldn't find someone like her to begin with. BUT then again I don't fully know this girl so she may be the same or worse.


----------



## manfromlamancha

SF-FAN said:


> Ok, need your feedback as I just had a moment where I think I might have shot myself in the foot. So there is this cute bank teller that I chat with when I go in, she chats back and is friendly, there is a definite vibe but I know she was married so I never over stepped that boundary. So today I noticed she was not wearing her wedding ring so I tell her "your hubby's going to be mad at you, you forgot your wedding ring today" and she says "no need for wedding ring anymore." I didn't ask why but she intimated her marriage was over. Towards the end, I asked for her email but I told her, "please don't think I'm trying pick up on you, just asking if you'd like to contact me via email to vent" and she says "it's too soon."
> 
> So needless to say, I think I creeped her out. Did I get to anxious, did I blow any possible future friendship?


I am probably going to go against the grain here and say that you should stay away from this one. If there is any hope of her reconciling with her husband then she should take it and you should encourage her to do so. In any case it is way too early for her to even think about dating anyone else.


----------



## SF-FAN

manfromlamancha said:


> I am probably going to go against the grain here and say that you should stay away from this one. If there is any hope of her reconciling with her husband then she should take it and you should encourage her to do so. In any case it is way too early for her to even think about dating anyone else.


I agree and I don't even know what the circumstances of her separation are, and didn't ask for that reason. I also told her that I truly hope she and her husband can work things out and will likely not even ask about her relationship in the near future. Interesting though, her answer was "don't think it's going to work out this time."

Regardless, I am with you and wouldn't want any guy/girl hindering reconciliation if that's what my WW and I were doing. I'm a good, respectable, honest guy.....I hate myself sometimes for it.


----------



## SF-FAN

When you've been married a while and have kids, it takes a lot for separation or divorce, and even then very often couples give it multiple tries before they truly make go their separate ways so I am not intent on talking to a freshly separated woman. 

Even after divorcing some couples rekindle years later only to leave their current significant others....it's just to risky period.


----------



## Chaparral

The next few times you see her act normal. After that if the vibe is right, ask her if she would like to go for coffee. 

You might even pass her a note next time about TAM if you don't yhink she would recognize your thread.


----------



## weightlifter

Baby steps SF baby steps.

BTW meetup.com.

Get into something with both sexes in it. You being an awesome dad at a park can be as good as a puppy.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Chaparral said:


> The next few times you see her act normal. After that if the vibe is right, ask her if she would like to go for coffee.


Just this.


----------



## cool12

checking in.
how is your weekend going?


----------



## weightlifter

#hoping for the holy sh!t I got some post.


----------



## SF-FAN

Nothing really to report. Due to the fact that our schedules are so crazy, we have to see each other often and sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's a mess. For this reason, I've been having a very hard time detaching. Though my brain tells me I'm not attracted to this person anymore, my heart is not understanding. 

And to top it off, I make the mistake of bringing up rumors that I've heard from people which now makes me look like a gossip and doesn't make me feel like a better person. I've never felt this weak in my life. It's like she has a vacuum connected to me and sucks the life/happiness anytime she wants, and I can't do anything about it.


----------



## mahike

Ups and Downs, sorry brother this is what is going to happen for awhile. When things are going down in your mind, focus on the kids. It sounds corny but it worked for me. They are your happy place

What are you doing about IC, It really helped me a great deal.


----------



## SF-FAN

mahike said:


> Ups and Downs, sorry brother this is what is going to happen for awhile. When things are going down in your mind, focus on the kids. It sounds corny but it worked for me. They are your happy place
> 
> What are you doing about IC, It really helped me a great deal.


Was doing the IC until obamacare changed my health insurance which now doesn't cover it. I am not in a position to pay $150 an hour every week so am having to go it alone for now.


----------



## BobSimmons

SF-FAN said:


> Nothing really to report. Due to the fact that our schedules are so crazy, we have to see each other often and sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's a mess. For this reason, I've been having a very hard time detaching. Though my brain tells me I'm not attracted to this person anymore, my heart is not understanding.
> 
> And to top it off, I make the mistake of bringing up rumors that I've heard from people which now makes me look like a gossip and doesn't make me feel like a better person. I've never felt this weak in my life. It's like she has a vacuum connected to me and sucks the life/happiness anytime she wants, and I can't do anything about it.


FFS she's just a human being, flesh and bone just like you. The limited time we all have in this world, seconds ticking down from our lives can't be wasted by other people making us feel like sh*t.


----------



## happi_g_more2

hows your routine comin? You getting bed? turning the tv off? getting up and getting out? you look into a crossfit class yet?


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> hows your routine comin? You getting bed? turning the tv off? getting up and getting out? you look into a crossfit class yet?


Just came back from the gym. New gym. I'm fit, but not chiseled. That is what I am going to focus on, for me. Haven't been getting out per se but I am trying to do new things. Been treating myself to new things that I would not buy before, been watching what I want to watch. It's hard though. School, work and kids' activities keep me pretty busy but I have been neglecting certain things that I'm going to focus on.


----------



## SF-FAN

Ok, not much to update but been feeling a lot better lately. It's still a roller coaster but been hitting the gym hard, eating a lot better and thus I feel better. Today I was leaving a store and this cute girl kept staring at me. I was tempted to ask for her # but don't feel I'm ready quite yet. Felt good though getting the attention.


----------



## bfree

Patience grasshopper.


----------



## sandc

SF-FAN said:


> Ok, not much to update but been feeling a lot better lately. It's still a roller coaster but been hitting the gym hard, eating a lot better and thus I feel better. Today I was leaving a store and this cute girl kept staring at me. I was tempted to ask for her # but don't feel I'm ready quite yet. Felt good though getting the attention.


Just practice smiling at those cute girls first. Then practice talking to them. Ask a question, about something you bought or are going to buy. Just make small talk don't flirt. That will happen organically. Most women like to talk to men. Talk to them. For no reason at all. 

You'll be amazed.


----------



## SF-FAN

sandc said:


> Just practice smiling at those cute girls first. Then practice talking to them. Ask a question, about something you bought or are going to buy. Just make small talk don't flirt. That will happen organically. Most women like to talk to men. Talk to them. For no reason at all.
> 
> You'll be amazed.


It's a process, slow process, but it lifted my spirits some when I could clearly see she was staring, looked away, then stared some more.


----------



## sandc

SF-FAN said:


> It's a process, slow process, but it lifted my spirits some when I could clearly see she was staring, looked away, then stared some more.


Absolutely.

Smiling at folks is a nice thing to do anyway though. No?


----------



## LongWalk

Playing hard to get makes them even hungrier to know you.


----------



## SF-FAN

sandc said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Smiling at folks is a nice thing to do anyway though. No?


O.k., not much of an update but need to vent. Feeling a bit discouraged. Like I posted in LuvMyJava's thread, seems like WW's new found freedom is treating her a lot better than mine. She has a new trainer who is a tall, muscular, good looking guy. Not saying anything will happen, but why is she meeting people like that. Why is she not getting punished while I'm still in agony over here?

I am having a real problem detaching and it's starting to really affect me.


----------



## bandit.45

All you can do is go darker and stop talking to her. You would not know these things if you were truly doing the 180. Get back on it and stay on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

SF-FAN said:


> O.k., not much of an update but need to vent. Feeling a bit discouraged. Like I posted in LuvMyJava's thread, seems like WW's new found freedom is treating her a lot better than mine. She has a new trainer who is a tall, muscular, good looking guy. Not saying anything will happen, but why is she meeting people like that. Why is she not getting punished while I'm still in agony over here?
> 
> I am having a real problem detaching and it's starting to really affect me.


If you wanted to compromise who you are, become a heartless person, then you could start having sex with any woman at the drop of a hat too. 

This is why you need to talk to other women. There are better ones out there.


----------



## WhiteRaven

sandc said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Smiling at folks is a nice thing to do anyway though. No?


As long as you aren't a werewolf. People might faint.


----------



## dubsey

SF-FAN said:


> O.k., not much of an update but need to vent. Feeling a bit discouraged. Like I posted in LuvMyJava's thread, seems like WW's new found freedom is treating her a lot better than mine. She has a new trainer who is a tall, muscular, good looking guy. Not saying anything will happen, but why is she meeting people like that. Why is she not getting punished while I'm still in agony over here?
> 
> I am having a real problem detaching and it's starting to really affect me.


This is her getting punished. How many other women do you think that trainer is with all day. Even if she gets the trainer how many other women are getting the trainer at the same time.

She'll be competing with every other hottie in the place. Think she'll win?


----------



## Tobyboy

dubsey said:


> This is her getting punished. How many other women do you think that trainer is with all day. Even if she gets the trainer how many other women are getting the trainer at the same time.
> 
> She'll be competing with every other hottie in the place. Think she'll win?


:iagree: Plus, she has to pay the dude for attention! Of course.....you can always hire a young, hot yoga instructor to come to your house for some real "personal training"!


----------



## cool12

dubsey said:


> This is her getting punished. How many other women do you think that trainer is with all day. Even if she gets the trainer how many other women are getting the trainer at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> She'll be competing with every other hottie in the place. Think she'll win?



this is what i was thinking too. 
sure she's getting attention but she has to pay for it. i've been in the fitness industry for over a decade now and i'm here to tell you ppl LOL and make fun of the women hiring the hottest trainers. it's really pathetic. 

stop stop stop paying so much attention to her and what she is doing. 

have you taken on any new hobbies yet? do you take the kids out places where there are other kids and single moms?


----------



## joe kidd

Really man. Don't worry about her being punished. Problem with that is whatever happens to her will never seem like its enough. 
Know what her ultimate punishment will be? The day you no longer think of her.


----------



## Chaparral

It looks like you are intentionaly letting her string you along. She enjoys doling out the details to torture you. By refusing to stick to the 180, you are playing her game. Having any luck with that?


----------



## SF-FAN

Thanks for all the advice guys. It's not that she is giving me the details, we go to the same gym (at different times) and I know all the trainers and employees there. They don't know our situation so they speak freely with me about my wife. 

I am doing the 180 as best I can. It must be working because last night she came over at 1:00 a.m. and said the kids forgot something. I know she was checking on me. As far as getting out and chatting with others, I do and it helps but detachment takes a little while I guess.


----------



## bandit.45

Why the hell don't you just go to a different gym ?

Why would you set yourself up for that? You sound like SteveK.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BWBill

_I am doing the 180 as best I can. It must be working because last night she came over at 1:00 a.m. and said the kids forgot something. I know she was checking on me. _

Keep in mind that the 180 is about you, not about her. You'll know it's working when you find yourself not caring what she is up to.

A tough road, but one you need to walk.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Why the hell don't you just go to a different gym ?
> 
> Why would you set yourself up for that? You sound like SteveK.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's the best gym in town and I'm on a membership that doesn't end until the end of the year. I am not paying the early termination. I'm not paying extra and working out at a sub-par gym because of her.


----------



## SF-FAN

BWBill said:


> _I am doing the 180 as best I can. It must be working because last night she came over at 1:00 a.m. and said the kids forgot something. I know she was checking on me. _
> 
> Keep in mind that the 180 is about you, not about her. You'll know it's working when you find yourself not caring what she is up to.
> 
> A tough road, but one you need to walk.


Yeah and I tend to forget it's not about her. It's hard, you have so much time and emotions invested in someone, not wondering what they are up to takes a lot. I'm trying though.


----------



## Chaparral

The 180 is working when you you can careless what your wife is doing. If someone starts talking about her, tell them you kicked her out for being a loose woman.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> It's the best gym in town and I'm on a membership that doesn't end until the end of the year. I am not paying the early termination. I'm not paying extra and working out at a sub-par gym because of her.


Well then you need to let those mutual acquaintances know the two of you are divorcing and that you would appreciate them not discussing her in your presence. Be nice about it. Simple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Well then you need to let those mutual acquaintances know the two of you are divorcing and that you would appreciate them not discussing her in your presence. Be nice about it. Simple.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And then find a hot female trainer and chat up others in those tight yoga spandex.
Quite easy to do.


----------



## BobSimmons

SF if a woman truly wanted to go out there and get a man, she could probably do it in two seconds flat. As much as you think you're doing well and trying to detach it's obvious you still haven't.

Join a dating site, in fact join a couple, put your name and face out there and see what happens. Clearly the ego has taken a severe battering, but maybe being "liked", "checked out" whatever you want to call it might do you a bit of good. It's your life fella, time to enjoy it!


----------



## SF-FAN

BobSimmons said:


> SF if a woman truly wanted to go out there and get a man, she could probably do it in two seconds flat. As much as you think you're doing well and trying to detach it's obvious you still haven't.
> 
> Join a dating site, in fact join a couple, put your name and face out there and see what happens. Clearly the ego has taken a severe battering, but maybe being "liked", "checked out" whatever you want to call it might do you a bit of good. It's your life fella, time to enjoy it!


Yes I am having trouble detaching. If we didn't have kids together and see each other daily it would probably be a bit easier. I am trying but it's not easy. I am doing better though, I've been working out for a few weeks now so my muscle memory is kicking in and I look and feel a lot better and have been noticed by a few girls, some hotter than my WW, but the heart is a hard muscle to train. I'm trying though.


----------



## Chaparral

Why do you see your wife every day?


----------



## cool12

Chaparral said:


> Why do you see your wife every day?


i was wondering the same thing.
that's a painful way to detach.


----------



## SF-FAN

cool12 said:


> i was wondering the same thing.
> that's a painful way to detach.


It's the way our schedule is. There are days that I don't see her but for the most part we have to see each other every day even if it's for a short time frame. She takes them to school some days (even when they stay with me) because I can't and vise versa. She works in the evenings so the kids have to stay with me and then she picks them up after work. All of our kids also play sports which is an everyday thing so when the WW is not working, she attends. 

It's hard and not sure when/how it's going to get easier especially with the kids.


----------



## bandit.45

You need to take the plunge and start dating. Dating and getting to know new women will help you detach. Quit making excuses as to why you shouldn't or can't. The marriage is over. You are divorced in all but the paperwork.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

bandit.45 said:


> You need to take the plunge and start dating. Dating and getting to know new women will help you detach. Quit making excuses as to why you shouldn't or can't. The marriage is over. You are divorced in all but the paperwork.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree with all of this.

Still, a couple of the happiest guys I know have sworn off women altogether after their divorce. Anything that keeps you busy and provides enjoyment will work.


----------



## happi_g_more2

He cant date if he still has trouble looking at himself in the mirror. He needs to be working toward self improvement. Girls have a way of finding you when you are fit, confident and successful.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> He cant date if he still has trouble looking at himself in the mirror. He needs to be working toward self improvement. Girls have a way of finding you when you are fit, confident and successful.


I agree with that and I do have trouble looking at myself in the mirror. Though I've been working out and feel better, I feel I am not a good person to myself. I feel I lack confidence, lack inner strength and feel have no purpose in life. I have a nice house, good job, go to school and am decent looking but can honestly say I don't look forward to anything. Nothing interests me, nothing sounds fun, nothing makes me happy. I am just going through the motions right now.


----------



## BobSimmons

SF-FAN said:


> I agree with that and I do have trouble looking at myself in the mirror. Though I've been working out and feel better, I feel I am not a good person to myself. I feel I lack confidence, lack inner strength and feel have no purpose in life. I have a nice house, good job, go to school and am decent looking but can honestly say I don't look forward to anything. Nothing interests me, nothing sounds fun, nothing makes me happy. I am just going through the motions right now.


We all don't have time on our side. Each day that goes by is a day lost that's never coming back.
2x4 albeit a gentle one..

What is sitting and moping going to achieve? It's almost like you're punishing yourself for being betrayed.
Pain feeds into pain. You get used to that feeling, it becomes a cycle and a vicious one at that.

You now have an opportunity to mold your own destiny. Start a new cycle of positivity.

You don't want to go out? Just do it! Take a break from thinking and just let go.
You don't want to be happy, go and play with your kids and witness their joy.

You've been beaten down by betrayal. Most of us here have. I sat and moped, felt sorry for myself, couldn't look other couples when I was out mourning my loss and pain.

I don't know where my ex was, but for damn sure she wasn't sitting somewhere down in the dumps being sad..

So why the heck should I? My life wasting away before my eyes, time I would never get back.

You owe it to yourself. No one else.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> I agree with that and I do have trouble looking at myself in the mirror. Though I've been working out and feel better, I feel I am not a good person to myself. I feel I lack confidence, lack inner strength and feel have no purpose in life. I have a nice house, good job, go to school and am decent looking but can honestly say I don't look forward to anything. Nothing interests me, nothing sounds fun, nothing makes me happy. I am just going through the motions right now.


Get your testosterone levels checked. 

Get evaluated for depression. 

Go outside your comfort zones and explore a new hobby or pastime. Don't hole up at home and mope. All you would be doing then is accepting defeat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

BobSimmons said:


> We all don't have time on our side. Each day that goes by is a day lost that's never coming back.
> 2x4 albeit a gentle one..
> 
> What is sitting and moping going to achieve? It's almost like you're punishing yourself for being betrayed.
> Pain feeds into pain. You get used to that feeling, it becomes a cycle and a vicious one at that.
> 
> You now have an opportunity to mold your own destiny. Start a new cycle of positivity.
> 
> You don't want to go out? Just do it! Take a break from thinking and just let go.
> You don't want to be happy, go and play with your kids and witness their joy.
> 
> You've been beaten down by betrayal. Most of us here have. I sat and moped, felt sorry for myself, couldn't look other couples when I was out mourning my loss and pain.
> 
> I don't know where my ex was, but for damn sure she wasn't sitting somewhere down in the dumps being sad..
> 
> So why the heck should I? My life wasting away before my eyes, time I would never get back.
> 
> You owe it to yourself. No one else.





bandit.45 said:


> Get your testosterone levels checked.
> 
> Get evaluated for depression.
> 
> Go outside your comfort zones and explore a new hobby or pastime. Don't hole up at home and mope. All you would be doing then is accepting defeat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sitting home moping, in fact I am hardly ever home. Everything I have going on keeps me busy but it feels like nothing interests me. Usually people have interests, they feel like going here, there, doing this or that but I don't. I feel like life doesn't have a purpose. Everything we go through, good or bad, is just moments attached that eventually lead to death. Nothing is permanent, nothing is forever. I'm not depressed, I'm not lacking testosterone, life is just a joke. 

I've witnessed people die recently and it appears the bottom line is that we are all headed that way so regardless of what we go through or do in life, nothing matters in the end. It's sort of a dark epiphany. Life is sh*t basically.


----------



## GusPolinski

sf-fan said:


> i'm not sitting home moping, in fact i am hardly ever home. Everything i have going on keeps me busy but it feels like nothing interests me. Usually people have interests, they feel like going here, there, doing this or that but i don't. I feel like life doesn't have a purpose. Everything we go through, good or bad, is just moments attached that eventually lead to death. Nothing is permanent, nothing is forever. I'm not depressed, i'm not lacking testosterone, life is just a joke.
> 
> I've witnessed people die recently and it appears the bottom line is that we are all headed that way so regardless of what we go through or do in life, nothing matters in the end. It's sort of a dark epiphany. Life is sh*t basically.





bandit.45 said:


> *get your testosterone levels checked.
> 
> Get evaluated for depression. *
> 
> go outside your comfort zones and explore a new hobby or pastime. Don't hole up at home and mope. All you would be doing then is accepting defeat.
> _posted via mobile device_


ahem!


----------



## SF-FAN

GusPolinski said:


> ahem!


I got my testosterone levels checked and I'm a bit above average. Got checked for depression as well and am fine. I don't feel depressed just not satisfied with what life has to offer.


----------



## cool12

yeah i'm watching someone die right now too. it makes me want to live life to the fullest though, to not waste a minute on the sh!t that isn't worth my precious time.


----------



## SF-FAN

cool12 said:


> yeah i'm watching someone die right now too. it makes me want to live life to the fullest though, to not waste a minute on the sh!t that isn't worth my precious time.


See and for some reason, it's having the opposite affect on me. It's making me think "what for" we all end up being an afterthought. You struggle all your life to be something and you become it, you die. You don't do nothing with your life, you die. It's all meaningless. All moments that are going by that don't mean anything.


----------



## Entropy3000

SF-FAN said:


> I got my testosterone levels checked and I'm a bit above average. Got checked for depression as well and am fine. I don't feel depressed just not satisfied with what life has to offer.


What is the number? What do you think is above average?


----------



## SF-FAN

Entropy3000 said:


> What is the number? What do you think is above average?


Per the test results which range from 241 - 827 ng/dL, my level is 707. Average, according to the Dr. is about 600 or so. Either way, I'm not on the low side.


----------



## Entropy3000

SF-FAN said:


> Per the test results which range from 241 - 827 ng/dL, my level is 707. Average, according to the Dr. is about 600 or so. Either way, I'm not on the low side.


I agree that is a great number. Many guys get told anything in the lower range is good.


----------



## GusPolinski

SF-FAN said:


> I got my testosterone levels checked and I'm a bit above average. Got checked for depression as well and am fine. I don't feel depressed just not satisfied with what life has to offer.


Dude, everything that you've put forth in your last couple of posts literally _screams_ depression.


----------



## cool12

SF-FAN said:


> See and for some reason, it's having the opposite affect on me. It's making me think "what for" we all end up being an afterthought. You struggle all your life to be something and you become it, you die. You don't do nothing with your life, you die. It's all meaningless. All moments that are going by that don't mean anything.



it's not about where you end up. 
it's about what you experience getting there.


----------



## BobSimmons

SF-FAN said:


> I'm not sitting home moping, in fact I am hardly ever home. Everything I have going on keeps me busy but it feels like nothing interests me. Usually people have interests, they feel like going here, there, doing this or that but I don't. I feel like life doesn't have a purpose. Everything we go through, good or bad, is just moments attached that eventually lead to death. Nothing is permanent, nothing is forever. I'm not depressed, I'm not lacking testosterone, life is just a joke.
> 
> I've witnessed people die recently and it appears the bottom line is that we are all headed that way so regardless of what we go through or do in life, nothing matters in the end. It's sort of a dark epiphany. Life is sh*t basically.


Aye exactly, we are all going to die. 

Difference is allowing one person to hold such a sway they dictate how you live that precious time...especially when they give zero tosses about your feelings.

You have kids yet you say life is a joke? You had a union with someone you loved very much and brought kids into the world. I'm sure you look back on that with happiness. That is life
On the other hand, you got dealt a sh*tty hand with the affair. That is life. Joy and pain.
We all go through it, some more than others. But it's really up to you if you want to sit and wallow. I'm just not for that man, especially one who has been betrayed. 

Happiness should be almost a given, a flipping human right. You have earned the right to be outrageously happy, to meet someone who will nurture you, bring peace to your heart.


----------



## SF-FAN

GusPolinski said:


> Dude, everything that you've put forth in your last couple of posts literally _screams_ depression.


I agree that it appears that way because of my last posts but I don't feel that way all the time, I just have my moments and it helps me to vent on here. 

For the most part, being with my kids and just being active, going to the gym, being out and chatting with people helps BUT I do have my moments that make me wonder when all this BS will come to an end and when will I finally have someone that will love me for me and not stray.


----------



## SF-FAN

BobSimmons said:


> Aye exactly, we are all going to die.
> 
> Difference is allowing one person to hold such a sway they dictate how you live that precious time...especially when they give zero tosses about your feelings.
> 
> You have kids yet you say life is a joke? You had a union with someone you loved very much and brought kids into the world. I'm sure you look back on that with happiness. That is life
> On the other hand, you got dealt a sh*tty hand with the affair. That is life. Joy and pain.
> We all go through it, some more than others. But it's really up to you if you want to sit and wallow. I'm just not for that man, especially one who has been betrayed.
> 
> Happiness should be almost a given, a flipping human right. You have earned the right to be outrageously happy, to meet someone who will nurture you, bring peace to your heart.


I am not home sitting in self pity but I am hard on myself. I wish I would have chosen a better mother for my children so they wouldn't have to go through this. I worry so much that they will have to deal with a douche bag step-father in the future. I've watched shows where step-parents have treated their step-kids so bad and in some cases murdered them. I know that is a bit extreme but it scares the crap out of me.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> I got my testosterone levels checked and I'm a bit above average. Got checked for depression as well and am fine. I don't feel depressed just not satisfied with what life has to offer.


Happiness is a choice. 

Get busy living or get busy dying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Happiness is a choice.
> 
> Get busy living or get busy dying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just saw that on Shawshank Redemption the other day. One of my all time favorite movies.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Just saw that on Shawshank Redemption the other day. One of my all time favorite movies.


That lead character was not only cheated on by his skank wife but he neded up being imprisoned for killing her. 

There but for the grace of God go you....

Maybe you need to move down to a beach town in Mexico and fix up an old boat. Get away from it all.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> That lead character was not only cheated on by his skank wife but he neded up being imprisoned for killing her.
> 
> There but for the grace of God go you....
> 
> Maybe you need to move down to a beach town in Mexico and fix up an old boat. Get away from it all.


IF we didn't have kids together, I swear to you, I'd be GONE to San Diego. I've always dreamed of moving there. We always talked about it but all our family is here and of course we don't want to uproot our kids. If I had no baggage, I'd be soaking up some sun in SD!


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> IF we didn't have kids together, I swear to you, I'd be GONE to San Diego. I've always dreamed of moving there. We always talked about it but all our family is here and of course we don't want to uproot our kids. If I had no baggage, I'd be soaking up some sun in SD!


SD is nice. But crowded and expensive.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> SD is nice. But crowded and expensive.


Yeah but if I was single with no kids, I'd be happy living in a shoebox going to the beach every day. Shoot Mexico is right there as well, I'd be over there every weekend.


----------



## BobSimmons

SF-FAN said:


> I am not home sitting in self pity but I am hard on myself.* I wish I would have chosen a better mother for my children* so they wouldn't have to go through this. I worry so much that they will have to deal with a douche bag step-father in the future. I've watched shows where step-parents have treated their step-kids so bad and in some cases murdered them. I know that is a bit extreme but it scares the crap out of me.


You're chastising yourself for the decisions you made in your life. Yours was the union which brought those wonderful children into your life. The decisions and outcomes made afterwards are just part of living. 

I appreciate you're probably scared but those kids are your kids, you can't control whom your wife meets, hopefully not a douche. But as their dad it is your responsibility to make this as least painful and smooth as possible. Part of that is taking care of yourself.

You're a smart man and are dealing with it in your way. Just don't seek pain as solace. I'll keep saying this, you've bloody earned the right to be happy


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Yeah but if I was single with no kids, I'd be happy living in a shoebox going to the beach every day. Shoot Mexico is right there as well, I'd be over there every weekend.


Imperial Beach is quieter and more relaxed. Tijuana is just a mile or two away, and you have SD five or so miles North.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> I got my testosterone levels checked and I'm a bit above average. Got checked for depression as well and am fine. I don't feel depressed just not satisfied with what life has to offer.


Sounds like a great time to decide what your 'second half of your life' is gonna be. You only get one.


----------



## bandit.45

Get the D done, cash it in, and buy yourself a little coffee hut by the beach. 

I think I would be happier making 20k a year as a barristo and living in a hut than shlepping through the remainder of my career.


----------



## turnera

OMG, I SO wish I would have followed up on my thoughts when I was younger about just up and moving somewhere where I was happy, even if it was just a little hut somewhere. I see all these people on HGTV who move to the islands and just open a bike repair shop or a coffee shop or work from home...I wasted my life!


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> OMG, I SO wish I would have followed up on my thoughts when I was younger about just up and moving somewhere where I was happy, even if it was just a little hut somewhere. I see all these people on HGTV who move to the islands and just open a bike repair shop or a coffee shop or work from home...I wasted my life!


You and me both. 

I have dreams of retiring to a little seaside pueblo down in Mexico, living in a little 800 square foot casita by the ocean, spending my days fishing and eating tacos, maybe start sketching and painting again....


----------



## sidney2718

turnera said:


> OMG, I SO wish I would have followed up on my thoughts when I was younger about just up and moving somewhere where I was happy, even if it was just a little hut somewhere. I see all these people on HGTV who move to the islands and just open a bike repair shop or a coffee shop or work from home...I wasted my life!


I doubt that. You've done a world of good right here alone.

For me a successful life is leaving the world a little better than you found it. If you helped one couple in the pain of an affair, you are ahead of the game.

And you are never too old to have new adventures.


----------



## SF-FAN

Living on the beach in a little hut eating seafood and tacos sounds like the life for me. If you are bilingual and move to the beach in Mexico, you don't have to do much and you'll make a pretty good living. Sounds amazing right about now.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Living on the beach in a little hut eating seafood and tacos sounds like the life for me. If you are bilingual and move to the beach in Mexico, you don't have to do much and you'll make a pretty good living. Sounds amazing right about now.


...maybe meet up with a sweet little senorita who will treat you right and make a nice home for the two of you.....


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Living on the beach in a little hut eating seafood and tacos sounds like the life for me. If you are bilingual and move to the beach in Mexico, you don't have to do much and you'll make a pretty good living. Sounds amazing right about now.


why dont you take your 3/5 weeks pto and do it. you dont have to move...but just go for a few weeks.


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF where you at buddy? You doing alright?


----------



## cool12

U.E. McGill said:


> SF where you at buddy? You doing alright?



i was just wondering the same thing.


----------



## SF-FAN

Hey guys, I've been on here a few times mostly reading LuvMyJava's thread and keeping up with his roller coaster. My situation is stagnant. As I posted somewhere else, my WW is adamant that nothing is going on so either it's true or her affair is dormant or she's taken it deep underground. Though we don't talk a lot nor see each other, she's been overly nice and wanting to be nice with one another.

Though all other aspects of my life are ok, I still feel like a huge part of my life is missing. Days when I am by myself, I call my buddies and they are busy with their wives/family so it makes it very hard when I am sitting there alone at home. I hate bars and the town I live in is small so not a ton of stuff to do which works against me.

So loneliness is my greatest enemy right now.


----------



## turnera

Start learning how to do a hobby. Build a rocket ship. Become a chess master.


----------



## aug

turnera said:


> Start learning how to do a hobby. Build a rocket ship. Become a chess master.


Or, take up yoga. Ballroom dancing? Lots of women in these activities.


----------



## bandit.45

Employ an old Buddist saying: 

"Go where it's dangerous and say 'yes'".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

No yoga. No.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

I got back to working out a month or so ago so that takes up some time but like I said, the town I live in has limited activities so it makes it hard. Don't get me wrong, there are times I like being by myself but after a while, it gets to you and you feel isolated from everyone. It starts eating at you.


----------



## bandit.45

You know, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you are making excuses dude. 

Get out of your comfort zone and LOOK for things to do. You live in the USA. I find it hard to believe there are absolutely no interesting activities in your area. You might have to drive to another town to find something. Hiking, hunting, martial arts , conservation work , spelunking, art, rock climbing, paintball .... Get out and try the exact opposite of what you think you would be comfortable doing. I was a scoutmaster for a short time and I loved it. I was totally unprepared for being one but I gave it a try and it was a fantastic experience. 

Have you considered that one of the reasons your ex may have lost interest in you is because you only engage in the predictable ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> I got back to working out a month or so ago so that takes up some time but like I said, the town I live in has limited activities so it makes it hard. Don't get me wrong, there are times I like being by myself but after a while, it gets to you and you feel isolated from everyone. It starts eating at you.


I wouldnt change my married life with kids for the world. but I often look back at how much time I wasted when I was free man. You should be focusing on all the things that make you better (more attractive to females). Dont just "workout", make sure its challenging (cross fit, p90x, insanity). Eat healthy. You can fill up so much of your time learning how to eat right. read up on what to eat, Go to a market every other day for fresh foods, learn new ways to cook those healthy means (chicks dig that ****). Read books. Plan trips. Watch your first place sf giants (go to a couple of games). Above all, learn how to ehjoy being with yourself....cause let me tell ya...if you dont enjoy it, i can promise that no one else will. 

Once again, off my soap box.


----------



## turnera

google your city and look at every single website that comes up. Some of them are bound to be about things that are going on in your city; show up.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> You know, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you are making excuses dude.
> 
> Get out of your comfort zone and LOOK for things to do. You live in the USA. I find it hard to believe there are absolutely no interesting activities in your area. You might have to drive to another town to find something. Hiking, hunting, martial arts , conservation work , spelunking, art, rock climbing, paintball .... Get out and try the exact opposite of what you think you would be comfortable doing. I was a scoutmaster for a short time and I loved it. I was totally unprepared for being one but I gave it a try and it was a fantastic experience.
> 
> Have you considered that one of the reasons your ex may have lost interest in you is because you only engage in the predictable ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





happi_g_more2 said:


> I wouldnt change my married life with kids for the world. but I often look back at how much time I wasted when I was free man. You should be focusing on all the things that make you better (more attractive to females). Dont just "workout", make sure its challenging (cross fit, p90x, insanity). Eat healthy. You can fill up so much of your time learning how to eat right. read up on what to eat, Go to a market every other day for fresh foods, learn new ways to cook those healthy means (chicks dig that ****). Read books. Plan trips. Watch your first place sf giants (go to a couple of games). Above all, learn how to ehjoy being with yourself....cause let me tell ya...if you dont enjoy it, i can promise that no one else will.
> 
> Once again, off my soap box.


All good points. I am making excuses and I've learned that I stay in a somewhat depressed/sad mood as a defense mechanism. If I am sad or down then my mood can't really be ruined. Honestly, I am afraid to be happy, alone or with anyone else because like the old saying "when you're on top, the only way to go is down."

I've talked about it to my IC and the only real advice is that I snap out of it.

I do firmly believe that if I don't enjoy being with myself, no one else will. Heck, sometimes I bore myself and make myself mad for being so damn dull!!


----------



## turnera

Well, then, you're getting better advice from us, aren't you?

Get off your butt and go DO something this weekend.


----------



## murphy5

check out meetup.com
its not a dating site, more a "do stuff you like with other people" site.

Or get a dog


----------



## happyman64

When I got screwed over I made a point to do the following:

Get my pilots license. Check.
Buy a fast car and try to kill myself. Check. Check.
Ask girls on a date instead of being shy and waiting for them to do it. Check. Check. Check.
Take vacations to different parts of the world. Check. Check. Check. Check.

I will share with you SF how all that worked out for me.

I bought a few Porsche's and nearly killed myself in the last one. Great fun. Great adrenaline rush but pretty stupid when I look back. Plus the cops hated me. My custom license plate was "ACCELAR8". 

The flying was fun, challenging and I was able to go to a lot of interesting places and met a lot of fun people. 

I went to every Club Med and had a blast. Met a lot of nice girls as well. Ok. The truth? Many of them were hot & horny. I hope Turnera does not see this post.

My last single trip was Hawaii with a bunch of guys. It was sponsored by a local college. I met a beautiful 19 year old girl on this trip.

So what did I do. I asked her out on a date. Got her phone number. 

She was the first and only girl I ever asked out on a date.

Fortunately for me she was the only one I needed to ask. Mrs Happy has put up with me for 27 years. Married for 22.

So listen to Bandit. Stop making excuses and go do something. Anything.

It beats being lonely and you can have a ton of fun while meeting new people.

And do not be afraid to ask a woman out on a date.

Go live your life SF.

HM


----------



## joe kidd

Try golf. Even if you suck mightily it's a great way to spend time alone . Even better with a buddy and a few beers.


----------



## sandc

I second the pilot's license idea. Most rewarding experience of my life. I still get the rewards from it every week.


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> No yoga. No.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seriously? You obviously aren't a fan of yoga pants

If I could post pictures, I'm sure I could change your mind.


----------



## bandit.45

Yoga for chicks.... Yes. Yoga for men...gay. Unless your an Indian yogi who likes to walk on his hands and wrap his penis around a stick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> Yoga for chicks.... Yes. Yoga for men...gay. Unless your an Indian yogi who likes to walk on his hands and wrap his penis around a stick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hear the men yoga trainers aren't gay. The scandals seem to point that out too

Btw, I hear high schools have stareted banning yoga pants.


----------



## bandit.45

SF don't do yoga.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Chaparral said:


> Seriously? You obviously aren't a fan of yoga pants
> 
> If I could post pictures, I'm sure I could change your mind.


Me LOOOOOVE yoga pants... (on the cute wimmenz)

Well if your in SF area and its remote that makes you well north of SF... You could hunt bigfoot!


----------



## farsidejunky

How far north of SF? So much to do in Napa, Sonoma, Mendocino, Humboldt, and Del Norte counties. I grew up in Humboldt County.


----------



## bandit.45

Hunt hippies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

weightlifter said:


> Me LOOOOOVE yoga pants... (on the cute wimmenz)


:iagree:

Chicks in my college classes wear them all the time. Awesome!


----------



## BobSimmons

bandit.45 said:


> Yoga for chicks.... Yes. Yoga for men...gay. Unless your an Indian yogi who likes to walk on his hands and wrap his penis around a stick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's obviously utter nonsense. Last time I checked I didn't dig men, first time I did yoga damn near the hardest thing I ever did.

Don't generalize.


----------



## bandit.45

BobSimmons said:


> That's obviously utter nonsense. Last time I checked I didn't dig men, first time I did yoga damn near the hardest thing I ever did.
> 
> Don't generalize.


I'm just joking around. Chill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

BobSimmons said:


> That's obviously utter nonsense. Last time I checked I didn't dig men, first time I did yoga damn near the hardest thing I ever did.
> 
> Don't generalize.


The last part of his post is "obviously utter nonsense." I honestly don't understand why you took it seriously.

So, who called you gay after yoga?


----------



## SF-FAN

I'm from SF originally and now live about 2 hrs. north close to Sacramento. Not close enough to take a quick drive there though. As far as doing stuff, I am just going to go for it but as for talking to girls, it's going to be just talk for now. No dates, I'm just not ready. 

Also, I feel like my WW is trying to play a game of "chicken" with me. Right now she is in ultra reputation repair mode so she's appearing to stay "clean." I feel like she's looking for me to do something bad like "move on" with another girl so she can cry to everyone that she attempted to R but I, the horrible one, did not want to so now she can freely move on with whomever she'd like, even the POSOM.

I don't know it's stupid but like LuvMyJava's WW, she is a strategist so I have to go above and beyond so that I don't come out looking like the bad one in all of this. Time has a way of making people forget what someone does and so the fact that my WW cheated is in the forefront of my mind, it's not so much anymore for everyone else.


----------



## turnera

"Hi guys, good to see you. Have you seen the stbx lately? I hear she's on to guy #3 (fill in) after the guy she cheated on me with dumped her. So what's up with you guys?"


----------



## bandit.45

Volunteering with charitable organizations is a great way to do good for your fellow man, feel good about yourself and it also takes the focus off of yourself and keeps your mind busy. I volunteer with the Salvation Army in occasion, and I've also volunteered building houses for the needy with an organization called Habitat for Humanity. That was immensely satisfying. Maybe you can help out at an animal shelter ? Just some suggestions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

How do you know your ex is plotting something. Is she texting you? Contacting you ? I thought she was basically ignoring you , acting like you were dead, and that you had gone dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

bandit.45 said:


> Volunteering with charitable organizations is a great way to do good for your fellow man, feel good about yourself and it also takes the focus off of yourself and keeps your mind busy. I volunteer with the Salvation Army in occasion, and I've also volunteered building houses for the needy with an organization called Habitat for Humanity. That was immensely satisfying. Maybe you can help out at an animal shelter ? Just some suggestions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Being a productive person who pays it forward can help in so many ways. It helps others. It helps you. It's gratifying and has a way of realigning and adjusting things in a positive way.

In the grand scheme of things, SF, people like you and me are very fortunate. If you embrace that perspective and reach out, even if just for a few hours every week or month, your job of detaching from your WW is made much easier.

Volunteering to teach people things that you are expert in is another good way to develop a more satisfying thought process. Literacy programs are good vehicles for this, for instance.

In my dotage , I have moved from working in think tanks and spending hours staring at a computer screen to helping kids who are learning-challenged. I've learned so much from these kids. They are great and give me tremendous hope for us all.


----------



## bandit.45

Amen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Have you read mmslp yet? I don't see where you have grown philosophically.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> How do you know your ex is plotting something. Is she texting you? Contacting you ? I thought she was basically ignoring you , acting like you were dead, and that you had gone dark.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At first she was mad at everyone because the affair came to light (not by me) so she was treating me like trash whenever we did communicate which is when I went dark. She now is trying to be nice when we communicate about the kids. She is in reputation repair mode.

She may not be plotting something but she knows how to manipulate to get her way. Also, I don't know IF she is or IF she is not but I am going to watch my back regardless. She is not a nice person that just learns from her mistakes. She is the type that will be dammed if anyone tries to make her do something she doesn't want to, right or wrong.


----------



## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> Have you read mmslp yet? I don't see where you have grown philosophically.


I've read it and took some things away from it but I am bitter, angry, hurt and have a tough time using things that I read in it. I have not grown philosophically or in any other way.


----------



## bandit.45

Everyone heals at their own pace SF. Give yourself a break. Give yourself all the time you need. 

Just don't whine. Okay?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Everyone heals at their own pace SF. Give yourself a break. Give yourself all the time you need.
> 
> Just don't whine. Okay?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha, what's funny is that I caught myself telling that to my son the other day. I told him nothing gets accomplished by stressing or whining....then thought to myself, take your own advice dummy!


----------



## warlock07

You lose if you play the game.

Don't play this game SF. This is not about who comes out smelling better or making her look bad infront of everyone. People have better things than judging both of you.

I really want to support you SF but I don't think you are going about this the right way. Your motivations are based around her.


----------



## SF-FAN

warlock07 said:


> You lose if you play the game.
> 
> Don't play this game SF. This is not about who comes out smelling better or making her look bad infront of everyone. People have better things than judging both of you.
> 
> I really want to support you SF but I don't think you are going about this the right way. Your motivations are based around her.


As much as I'd like to say they're not, they are. Like I mentioned before, since we have young children and need to communicate and exchange them frequently do to work/school schedule, I've had a hard time detaching. Even when I look at her and don't feel anything, I still have a hard time detaching and don't know why.


----------



## sandc

SF, I live in the Central Valley in a small town too. Now, if I have time to drive to Sacramento to visit friends then so do you. This is California for criminy sakes. We're used to driving two hours to get anywhere! 

Or you can learn to fly like I did. Then it takes four hours to get anywhere.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> As much as I'd like to say they're not, they are. Like I mentioned before, since we have young children and need to communicate and exchange them frequently do to work/school schedule, I've had a hard time detaching. Even when I look at her and don't feel anything, I still have a hard time detaching and don't know why.


I think this is common. When you are alone, you have this image in your head about her. All those feelings and visuals. The fact that she cheated on you. So you are depressed, you have low self esteem and you miss her. You wish that it never happened so you could continue to walk your life with confidence. Then when you see her, you realize, "oh yeah, she's a skank."


----------



## SF-FAN

sandc said:


> SF, I live in the Central Valley in a small town too. Now, if I have time to drive to Sacramento to visit friends then so do you. This is California for criminy sakes. We're used to driving two hours to get anywhere!
> 
> Or you can learn to fly like I did. Then it takes four hours to get anywhere.


I don't have any friends in Sacramento...



happi_g_more2 said:


> I think this is common. When you are alone, you have this image in your head about her. All those feelings and visuals. The fact that she cheated on you. So you are depressed, you have low self esteem and you miss her. You wish that it never happened so you could continue to walk your life with confidence. Then when you see her, you realize, "oh yeah, she's a skank."


Exactly. Feelings, visuals, anger, hatred, yet I still can't detach. There are better looking women that will treat me with respect and make me happy yet I feel like I have this stench I can't get off me.


----------



## sandc

Neither did I. I don't think I'll be able to help you. Best of luck.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Found the evidence of wife having an affair*



SF-FAN said:


> I don't have any friends in Sacramento


You are right. You should probably avoid it like the plague until you do... After all, maybe you can "bump into" someone from there while hanging out with your other friends... 

Or you could just go and make friends there while not worrying about it so much. Try it sometime; it can be extremely liberating


----------



## terrence4159

it is hard to get back on the dating scene. i waited 1 1/2 years and the first woman i showed intrest in played me like a fiddle.

im going to get roasted here but man put an ad on craigslist or go there and look and find a one night stand. start getting your mojo back.........make sure you have a condom though


----------



## weightlifter

How was the holiday SF?


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> How was the holiday SF?


Holiday was good. Despite the fact that I thought I'd have nothing to do, was at a BBQ every day with kids' friends and neighbors. All in all pretty good. WW is trying to act nice again. Not sure what gives.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> As much as I'd like to say they're not, they are. Like I mentioned before, since we have young children and need to communicate and exchange them frequently do to work/school schedule, I've had a hard time detaching. Even when I look at her and don't feel anything, I still have a hard time detaching and don't know why.


You're having a hard time detaching cause you have all this love to give and no one to give it too. I felt the same way, want to know what finally fixed me? Dating. Go sign up for a dating sight and go out on a few dates with some nice girls. After that, you'll be so happy to see what decent women have to offer that you will care less if your skank ho ex gets gang banged on your front loan. There is definitely so much better out there. You deserve it so go get it. It really is that simple.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Found the evidence of wife having an affair*

"you will care less if your skank ho ex gets gang banged on your front loan"

Freudian slip?


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Holiday was good. Despite the fact that I thought I'd have nothing to do, was at a BBQ every day with kids' friends and neighbors. All in all pretty good. WW is trying to act nice again. Not sure what gives.


Hard to tell from your posts, but are you sure she isnt being nice because she has so fu*kin moved on its not even funny? Is her thought process, "what a nice day...BBQ, hangin with the kids, friends, and the penis i used to make my kids who is now just a good buddy of mine. Cant wait to go home to my single life"


----------



## illwill

She is a business partner to raise your kids with. Treat her as such. And stop calling. Text her. You will not heal if you see and hear from her every day. Out of sight...

Oh, and go get laid.


----------



## weightlifter

Im beginning to agree. DATE non exclusively a LOT.

2 reasons.

1) get the mojo back.
2) Im across the country from you and even I can tell, 
YOU REALLY NEED TO GET LAID!

Date a lot, eventually you wont even have to bring it up, she will simply be horny.


----------



## SF-FAN

happi_g_more2 said:


> Hard to tell from your posts, but are you sure she isnt being nice because she has so fu*kin moved on its not even funny? Is her thought process, "what a nice day...BBQ, hangin with the kids, friends, and the penis i used to make my kids who is now just a good buddy of mine. Cant wait to go home to my single life"


I highly doubt it. Her "single life" is not peaches and cream. Her family hates her, my family hates her. She's lost a lot of friends and family because of her affair. She doesn't have a ton of money because she works part time and I don't help her with a dime. I think she's being nice because she sees that I'm getting along well despite having my regressions. She wants me firmly planted as plan B and I've made it clear I am not going to be.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> I highly doubt it. Her "single life" is not peaches and cream. Her family hates her, my family hates her. She's lost a lot of friends and family because of her affair. She doesn't have a ton of money because she works part time and I don't help her with a dime. I think she's being nice because she sees that I'm getting along well despite having my regressions. She wants me firmly planted as plan B and I've made it clear I am not going to be.


Fair enough. So now you just to make it even clearer by showing up to the 4th of july party (assuming you will be going to some 4th of july party) with a hot ass chick on your arm


----------



## treyvion

weightlifter said:


> Im beginning to agree. DATE non exclusively a LOT.
> 
> 2 reasons.
> 
> 1) get the mojo back.
> 2) Im across the country from you and even I can tell,
> YOU REALLY NEED TO GET LAID!
> 
> Date a lot, eventually you wont even have to bring it up, she will simply be horny.


Weightlifter. Your talking about with the new females that he won't have to really say anything because they will be horny from him having his mojo back?

Just trying to understand. I didn't re-read the entire post here, but I will agree as a man that sometimes to fix a mans situation or "problem" or whatever he might just need to get laid, simple as that.


----------



## weightlifter

treyvion said:


> Weightlifter. Your talking about with the new females that he won't have to really say anything because they will be horny from him having his mojo back?
> 
> Just trying to understand. I didn't re-read the entire post here, but I will agree as a man that sometimes to fix a mans situation or "problem" or whatever he might just need to get laid, simple as that.


I mean if he dates eventually he will run into one that simply needs a roll in the hay.

I have a feeling that will break this logjam.


----------



## treyvion

weightlifter said:


> I mean if he dates eventually he will run into one that simply needs a roll in the hay.
> 
> I have a feeling that will break this logjam.


I know it will.

It removes a man from victim mode.

It removes a man from unable to help self mode.

It restores a mans mojo and expectation of himself.


----------



## weightlifter

treyvion said:


> I know it will.
> 
> It removes a man from victim mode.
> 
> It removes a man from unable to help self mode.
> 
> It restores a mans mojo and expectation of himself.


Egg-zactlee. Plus i swear women can smell a man who got some last night and a man who has gone a few months.


----------



## treyvion

weightlifter said:


> Egg-zactlee. Plus i swear women can smell a man who got some last night and a man who has gone a few months.


They can see it in his eyes, in his body movements and energy.


----------



## Marduk

weightlifter said:


> Egg-zactlee. Plus i swear women can smell a man who got some last night and a man who has gone a few months.


Agreed.

When I was going through my divorce, the day after I got laid the first time I got propositioned about 3 times.

Sigh. Women.

You're either in the desert or drowning.


----------



## RyanBingham

BetrayedDad said:


> You're having a hard time detaching cause you have all this love to give and no one to give it too. I felt the same way, want to know what finally fixed me? Dating. Go sign up for a dating sight and go out on a few dates with some nice girls. After that, *you'll be so happy to see what decent women have to offer that you will care less if your skank ho ex gets gang banged on your front loan*. There is definitely so much better out there. You deserve it so go get it. It really is that simple.


Hehe... FTW. You always make me smile BD.


----------



## tom67

RyanBingham said:


> Hehe... FTW. You always make me smile BD.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## thatbpguy

happi_g_more2 said:


> Hard to tell from your posts, but are you sure she isnt being nice because she has so fu*kin moved on its not even funny? Is her thought process, "what a nice day...BBQ, hangin with the kids, friends, and the penis i used to make my kids who is now just a good buddy of mine. Cant wait to go home to my single life"


Sad, but probably true.


----------



## U.E. McGill

This is why you can never "just be friends".


----------



## SF-FAN

U.E. McGill said:


> This is why you can never "just be friends".


I made it very clear that we are not friends. I hate her and am very bitter towards her. I am having trouble feeling indifferent towards her. I don't want to hate her, I want to not give a rats a$$ about her. I still suffer from that and can't seem to shake it. 

Yesterday she had the kids so I went home alone, watched a baseball game, washed my car, took dog for a walk but I could not shake the feeling of how stupid it was that we are only a few miles apart however cannot be together because of the mistake she made. I am paying for it by being home alone miserable. I want to feel indifferent so bad!!!


----------



## WhiteRaven

marduk said:


> Agreed.
> 
> When I was going through my divorce, the day after I got laid the first time I got propositioned about 3 times.
> 
> Sigh. Women.
> 
> You're either in the desert or drowning.


Amen!


----------



## turnera

What are you doing to insert 'more' into your life so there IS no big gaping hole where she was?


----------



## happyman64

> Yesterday she had the kids so I went home alone, watched a baseball game, washed my car, took dog for a walk but I could not shake the feeling of how stupid it was that we are only a few miles apart however cannot be together because of the *choices* (mistake) she made.


I hope SF you do not mind if I rewrote that one word for you.

It makes a huge difference.

And while you want to be indifferent i hope you see what Turnera wrote and realize that instead of being at home you throw yourself out there and find happiness again.

Sure you do not want to be her Plan B.

But do not sit on your laurels and be your own Plan B.

Go be awesome.

You will relish it and your kids will love you more for it.

And your Ex will be wondering if setting you "free" might have been her worst decision of her life. 

HM


----------



## bandit.45

Make the changes you need to in your life in order not to grow bitter. Bitterness will poison your relationship with your children....make them to not want to be around you. Don't let that happen. Don't become the mean old man at the end of the street whom everyone avoids. You deserve better than that fate. 

You still seem very isolated and that is not good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

happyman64 said:


> I hope SF you do not mind if I rewrote that one word for you.
> 
> It makes a huge difference.
> 
> And while you want to be indifferent i hope you see what Turnera wrote and realize that instead of being at home you throw yourself out there and find happiness again.
> 
> Sure you do not want to be her Plan B.
> 
> But do not sit on your laurels and be your own Plan B.
> 
> Go be awesome.
> 
> You will relish it and your kids will love you more for it.
> 
> And your Ex will be wondering if setting you "free" might have been her worst decision of her life.
> 
> HM





bandit.45 said:


> Make the changes you need to in your life in order not to grow bitter. Bitterness will poison your relationship with your children....make them to not want to be around you. Don't let that happen. Don't become the mean old man at the end of the street whom everyone avoids. You deserve better than that fate.
> 
> You still seem very isolated and that is not good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am still very isolated. Take yesterday for example, I get home from work to an empty house. It's 5ish on Wednesday so mid-week. I eat dinner alone, watch the game alone, walk the dog alone. As I mentioned before, my friends all have families and are busy pretty much all of the time so I don't have someone reliable I can just call and say "hey let's hang out." I refuse to go out to bars, especially mid-week, just not me. Other than trolling the mall, grocery stores, etc. there's not much to do in this small town. It's pathetic and I feel pathetic that I can't do more things.


----------



## turnera

I'm sure I've suggested that you LOOK (takes actual work on your part) for other opportunities. I guarantee there's at least SOMEthing going on in that town that you can join, even if it's just bowling or cow tipping.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> I am still very isolated. Take yesterday for example, I get home from work to an empty house. It's 5ish on Wednesday so mid-week. I eat dinner alone, watch the game alone, walk the dog alone. As I mentioned before, my friends all have families and are busy pretty much all of the time so I don't have someone reliable I can just call and say "hey let's hang out." I refuse to go out to bars, especially mid-week, just not me. Other than trolling the mall, grocery stores, etc. there's not much to do in this small town. It's pathetic and I feel pathetic that I can't do more things.


Your misery is ENTIRELY self-inflicted. Right now, it's your fault you are lonely. 6 billion people on this planet and you can't find anyone to hang out with? Stop making excuses. You've been told time and again what you need to do but you still come on TAM and whine. If all you want to do is feel sorry for yourself then good job, you've succeeded. 

If you want to actually FIX the problem then get off the damn computer and go take people's advice. Here's a good one. GO DATE. Stop being a baby and go sign up for a dating website and go on a few dates. No one's going to hold your hand bro. Who cares if your not ready, just do it. No ones says you have to marry them. You're a big boy, talk to some girls and ask them out. Even if they suck at least it's human interaction. Who knows maybe you'll even get laid.

Sorry to be harsh and I really do sympathize cause I was in the same boat at one point but you're just regurgitating the same crap page after page on this thread and what's the point if you're not going to do anything about it? All you're doing is letting your b!tch ex win and proving to her you are the chump she played you for. Man up for god's sake.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> Your misery is ENTIRELY self-inflicted. Right now, it's your fault you are lonely. 6 billion people on this planet and you can't find anyone to hang out with? Stop making excuses. You've been told time and again what you need to do but you still come on TAM and whine. If all you want to do is feel sorry for yourself then good job, you've succeeded.
> 
> If you want to actually FIX the problem then get off the damn computer and go take people's advice. Here's a good one. GO DATE. Stop being a baby and go sign up for a dating website and go on a few dates. No one's going to hold your hand bro. Who cares if your not ready, just do it. No ones says you have to marry them. You're a big boy, talk to some girls and ask them out. Even if they suck at least it's human interaction. Who knows maybe you'll even get laid.
> 
> Sorry to be harsh and I really do sympathize cause I was in the same boat at one point but you're just regurgitating the same crap page after page on this thread and what's the point if you're not going to do anything about it? All you're doing is letting your b!tch ex win and proofing to her you are the chump she played you for. Man up for god's sake.


You're right but the bad thing is the D is not final and far from it so I really can't date per se. If she sees me on some dating sight or gets wind of it, she'll be all over that and use it against me in some way. If she sees me or someone tells her I'm with another girl somewhere, she'll use it against me in some way. She knows she ****ed up and this is all her fault, she's looking for any and I mean ANY reason to turn this all around on me.

There is no closure to where I can "move on" from yet.

As far as looking for activities and just getting out there I'm sure I can but my heart is not in it right now and I don't know how to change that. I am taking tiny steps but I am having a very hard time.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> You're right but the bad thing is the D is not final and far from it so I really can't date per se. If she sees me on some dating sight or gets wind of it, she'll be all over that and use it against me in some way. If she sees me or someone tells her I'm with another girl somewhere, she'll use it against me in some way. She knows she ****ed up and this is all her fault, she's looking for any and I mean ANY reason to turn this all around on me.


How will she use it against you? First of all she cheated on you. Second, most judges won't see it as cheating on your end if you are separted. Also adultery means virtually nothing in most states for divorce and the ones do it's a tiny fine and rarely loss of alimony but since she cheated on you at worse it would be a wash. You're making excuses dude. Like I said you not marrying the girls, you're just going out for drinks and conversation. Maybe you'll hit it off, maybe you won't. But at least you're MOVING ON. That's what matters. What you're doing now is unhealthy and the longer you wait the harder it will be to get out there.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> How will she use it against you? First of all she cheated on you. Second, most judges won't see it as cheating on your end if you are separted. Also adultery means virtually nothing in most states for divorce and the ones do it's a tiny fine and rarely loss of alimony but since she cheated on you at worse it would be a wash. You're making excuses dude. Like I said you not marrying the girls, you're just going out for drinks and conversation. Maybe you'll hit it off, maybe you won't. But at least you're MOVING ON. That's what matters. What you're doing now is unhealthy and the longer you wait the harder it will be to get out there.


SF you are in the the biggest NO FAULT state there is.
So please don't go there.
Go out for dinner a few nights a week.


----------



## U.E. McGill

SF-FAN said:


> You're right but the bad thing is the D is not final and far from it so I really can't date per se. If she sees me on some dating sight or gets wind of it, she'll be all over that and use it against me in some way. If she sees me or someone tells her I'm with another girl somewhere, she'll use it against me in some way. She knows she ****ed up and this is all her fault, she's looking for any and I mean ANY reason to turn this all around on me.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no closure to where I can "move on" from yet.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as looking for activities and just getting out there I'm sure I can but my heart is not in it right now and I don't know how to change that. I am taking tiny steps but I am having a very hard time.



Are you legally separated? There's no reason you can't date while you are. 

You've got oneitis. Even after you get through this you need to resolve this. 

First, learn how to flirt. I'm married, but I still flirt. Even if your not dating, flirting can boost your ego and eliminate your bad case of "oneitis". 

Once you realize it's a world of plenty, this crap she puts you through will just slough off you. There's no such thing as "soul mates" and all that crap. There's a million great girls that will love to prove how wrong your ex is. Even in your small town I bet she has 5 friends who would love to swoop in and take her spot. 

You don't have to date, just get feeling good about yourself.


----------



## bandit.45

She cannot use your dating against you in court. You are separated and the courts really don't give a rat's ass. Like the others said, you are making excuses. 

I guarantee she is most likely throwing her legs up for half the men in your town. If she comes at you for dating....who cares? Which of her friends opinion's of you could you even remotely care about? 

Quit wallowing in pity and get out and do something.


----------



## SF-FAN

U.E. McGill said:


> Are you legally separated? There's no reason you can't date while you are.
> 
> You've got oneitis. Even after you get through this you need to resolve this.
> 
> First, learn how to flirt. I'm married, but I still flirt. Even if your not dating, flirting can boost your ego and eliminate your bad case of "oneitis".
> 
> Once you realize it's a world of plenty, this crap she puts you through will just slough off you. There's no such thing as "soul mates" and all that crap. There's a million great girls that will love to prove how wrong your ex is. Even in your small town I bet she has 5 friends who would love to swoop in and take her spot.
> 
> You don't have to date, just get feeling good about yourself.


That's how my day at work goes by pretty well. Throughout the day I see a cute girl at a bank, store, whatever and the chit chat is awesome. A few of them married, some single, but it's fun and it makes me feel pretty good.

It's the evening that I need to work on. I need to go out and have dinner or just do something to get me out of the house for more than 30 min.


----------



## mahike

You live in CA right? The courts do not care if you are dating just keep it away from the Kid and you are good to go.

just get out there my man


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> She cannot use your dating against you in court. You are separated and the courts really don't give a rat's ass. Like the others said, you are making excuses.
> 
> I guarantee she is most likely throwing her legs up for half the men in your town. If she comes at you for dating....who cares? Which of her friends opinion's of you could you even remotely care about?
> 
> Quit wallowing in pity and get out and do something.


I'm not concerned about her bringing up dating in court, but if she wants to get back at me for dating, she can probably try to get as much as possible on child support and spousal support. She only works part time and doesn't make much so that's what I don't want.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> I'm not concerned about her bringing up dating in court, but if she wants to get back at me for dating, she can probably try to get as much as possible on child support and spousal support. She only works part time and doesn't make much so that's what I don't want.


Matters not, matters not, matters not. 

I can tell you have not had any real in-depth discussions with your lawyer. Her CS and any spousal support is based SOLEY on your combined incomes, and then the court uses a standard statewide formula to determine what she gets. Her adultery does not factor into it at all. Your dating would not factor into it at all. 

You need to see a lawyer and get your fvcking head together.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Matters not, matters not, matters not.
> 
> I can tell you have not had any real in-depth discussions with your lawyer. Her CS and any spousal support is based SOLEY on your combined incomes, and then the court uses a standard statewide formula to determine what she gets. Her adultery does not factor into it at all. Your dating would not factor into it at all.
> 
> You need to see a lawyer and get your fvcking head together.


I've talked to the lawyer a few times and you are correct BUT when it comes to my step-son and step-daughter, because I've raised and provided for them since they were a few years old, I could be stuck paying child support for them. It all depends on if she wants to get me for that. So you're talking about only $500 for my biological son OR getting her pissed and her saying she wants $500 for each child totaling $1,500 per month. That's why I feel like I can't rock the boat. I feel like I am limbo hell.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> I've talked to the lawyer a few times and you are correct BUT when it comes to my step-son and step-daughter, because I've raised and provided for them since they were a few years old, I could be stuck paying child support for them. It all depends on if she wants to get me for that. So you're talking about only $500 for my biological son OR getting her pissed and her saying she wants $500 for each child totaling $1,500 per month. That's why I feel like I can't rock the boat. I feel like I am limbo hell.


Let her get pissed! Let her ask the Court for money. It doesn't mean she will get it! 

If you're going to mope, I recommend you move all the furniture out of the house, turn off the heat and lights and curl up in a fetal position on the floor in the most remote corner you can find. That should do ya....


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> I've talked to the lawyer a few times and you are correct BUT when it comes to my step-son and step-daughter, because I've raised and provided for them since they were a few years old, I could be stuck paying child support for them. It all depends on if she wants to get me for that. So you're talking about only $500 for my biological son OR getting her pissed and her saying she wants $500 for each child totaling $1,500 per month. That's why I feel like I can't rock the boat. I feel like I am limbo hell.


No, you can't and if he told you that than your lawyer sucks. If she brought those kids in from a prior relationship already born then it's their biological dad(s) problem (Whoever signed the birth certificate). 

What you said would only be true if she got pregnant during the marriage and you found out later that they were not your kids but you thought they were at the time. Because you would be the only dad they ever knew even then MAYBE you would be stuck paying (A good lawyer could probably get you out of it). 

So go date and stop with the excuses. Your new life is tired of waiting.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

I concur with you not dating until you get divorced.

It's more cautious and you can use that time to work on yourself (physically and mentally), so you'll be in top shape when you start dating.

Have you considered taking your kid(s) to therapy? They might benefit greatly from it.

Best wishes!


----------



## SF-FAN

HobbesTheTiger said:


> I concur with you not dating until you get divorced.
> 
> It's more cautious and you can use that time to work on yourself (physically and mentally), so you'll be in top shape when you start dating.
> 
> Have you considered taking your kid(s) to therapy? They might benefit greatly from it.
> 
> Best wishes!


Thanks. Trust me, I'd like to detach and not have any feelings and just move on but it's hard. I am trying but I regress. I'm not in a rush to date for that same reason. I'm not ready to. I need to work on myself. Before my WW I was a strong solid single guy and pretty much met a girl daily. I need to find that again before I attempt to talk to a girl.


----------



## treyvion

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks. Trust me, I'd like to detach and not have any feelings and just move on but it's hard. I am trying but I regress. I'm not in a rush to date for that same reason. I'm not ready to. I need to work on myself. Before my WW I was a strong solid single guy and pretty much met a girl daily. I need to find that again before I attempt to talk to a girl.


It'll take forever doing it that way. How about talking to females and letting them restore it for you quickly, after a few repetitions you will start to fall back into the old you. Like riding a bicycle.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Found the evidence of wife having an affair*



SF-FAN said:


> Thanks. Trust me, I'd like to detach and not have any feelings and just move on but it's hard. I am trying but I regress. I'm not in a rush to date for that same reason. I'm not ready to. I need to work on myself. Before my WW I was a strong solid single guy and pretty much met a girl daily. I need to find that again before I attempt to talk to a girl.


You know I love ya, right?

This mentality is like learning to ride a bike again by THINKING about it or LONGING to ride it. 

Bro. Just. Do. It.


----------



## happyman64

SF

You take all the time you need.

But might I give you one suggestion?

Go for a hot air balloon ride.

or

Go take a skydiving lesson and make your first jum.

or

Go up a very tall building and look over the edge.

The adrenalin rush will awaken your inner "self". Make you feel alive again.

I found it worked for me and a few other posters.


It is a simple way to kickstart the new you.

HM


----------



## Hardtohandle

SF-FAN said:


> I've talked to the lawyer a few times and you are correct BUT when it comes to my step-son and step-daughter, because I've raised and provided for them since they were a few years old, I could be stuck paying child support for them. It all depends on if she wants to get me for that. So you're talking about only $500 for my biological son OR getting her pissed and her saying she wants $500 for each child totaling $1,500 per month. That's why I feel like I can't rock the boat. I feel like I am limbo hell.


I can relate.. You don't want to poke the tiger too much..


----------



## SF-FAN

happyman64 said:


> SF
> 
> You take all the time you need.
> 
> But might I give you one suggestion?
> 
> Go for a hot air balloon ride.
> 
> or
> 
> Go take a skydiving lesson and make your first jum.
> 
> or
> 
> Go up a very tall building and look over the edge.
> 
> The adrenalin rush will awaken your inner "self". Make you feel alive again.
> 
> I found it worked for me and a few other posters.
> 
> 
> It is a simple way to kickstart the new you.
> 
> HM


Never thought of that. I may just do that, an adrenaline rush does have a way of opening up the senses.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Thanks. Trust me, I'd like to detach and not have any feelings and just move on but it's hard. I am trying but I regress. I'm not in a rush to date for that same reason. I'm not ready to. I need to work on myself. Before my WW I was a strong solid single guy and pretty much met a girl daily. I need to find that again before I attempt to talk to a girl.


Your logic isn't sound. How can you find your inner stud again UNLESS you get out and chat up the ladies.

Look I'm not saying go out and try to sleep with every chick you meet, but you can get out and just start talking to women again. Grocery stores, church, library, post office... All are places to chat up women and get some of your flirting mojo back.


----------



## turnera

You don't need to find ANYTHING before you talk to another girl. You just need to DO it.

Have you seen the new show Undateable? You should watch it.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Your logic isn't sound. How can you find your inner stud again UNLESS you get out and chat up the ladies.
> 
> Look I'm not saying go out and try to sleep with every chick you meet, but you can get out and just start talking to women again. Grocery stores, church, library, post office... All are places to chat up women and get some of your flirting mojo back.


Oh I do that already, you must have not seen my previous post. There are some very cute girls I see when I go to the bank, store, etc. Maybe they're interested, maybe they're not but I do find it pleasant to chat with them. We'll see what happens.


----------



## bandit.45

Just keep putting yourself out there. Word gets around that you're available. Some sweet little thing will put her crosshairs on you. Don't worry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Just keep putting yourself out there. Word gets around that you're available. Some sweet little thing will put her crosshairs on you. Don't worry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Saw a girl from school that I hadn't seen in a long time. Chatted it up a bit and we exchanged #s. I will give her a call or text one of these days. Not someone I see myself being with but wouldn't be bad to text or hang out.

Also got an email from an old flame that is with someone. She just emailed me to see how I was doing, we've always stayed in communication, though never anything more than a friendship. Emailing her has helped and she is very pretty but since she is with someone, I would never think of pressing anything more than a friendship.


----------



## bandit.45

That's good SF.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

Well I took everyone's advice and have been trying to keep active. I befriended a girl at a local bank that always showed interest when I went in there and we've been messaging for a couple days. Our conversations were pretty light but I could tell she is interested because she messages me all through the day and evening and makes comments that show interest. It's only been a couple days so I'm not getting ahead of myself by any means but the attraction is growing.

She text me last night about 8 p.m., I replied like normal and haven't heard from her since. She usually is the first one to text me in the morning but nothing today. I text her when I got into work telling her "good morning, how are you today?" about an hour ago and no response which is odd to me because of the pattern of messaging we've had these past few days.

Here's the problem: It actually stings a little that I haven't heard from her. I feel a little hurt and heart broken. So now I somewhat still feel hurt by my failed marriage and by this girl I've only known for a few days. Why do I feel like this and how do I get rid of this pain. I mean I've only talked to the girl for a few days.


----------



## FromEurope

SF-FAN said:


> Well I took everyone's advice and have been trying to keep active. I befriended a girl at a local bank that always showed interest when I went in there and we've been messaging for a couple days. Our conversations were pretty light but I could tell she is interested because she messages me all through the day and evening and makes comments that show interest. It's only been a couple days so I'm not getting ahead of myself by any means but the attraction is growing.
> 
> She text me last night about 8 p.m., I replied like normal and haven't heard from her since. She usually is the first one to text me in the morning but nothing today. I text her when I got into work telling her "good morning, how are you today?" about an hour ago and no response which is odd to me because of the pattern of messaging we've had these past few days.
> 
> Here's the problem: It actually stings a little that I haven't heard from her. I feel a little hurt and heart broken. So now I somewhat still feel hurt by my failed marriage and by this girl I've only known for a few days. Why do I feel like this and how do I get rid of this pain. I mean I've only talked to the girl for a few days.



could it be that she wants to see if YOU make a first step further?


----------



## GTdad

You got too invested way too early in the game.

Her non-responsiveness could be anything: she's sick, she's busy, she's a flake, she got tired of waiting for you to ask her out, etc. Point is, it shouldn't matter at this point.

Keep chatting with the ladies, and protect your heart a little more than you apparently do.


----------



## SF-FAN

FromEurope said:


> could it be that she wants to see if YOU make a first step further?


It's only been a few days and she got out of a relationship herself not too long ago so I don't know that she'd be ready for any first step.


----------



## bryanp

Whoa. You are letting your mind get the best of you. Maybe she had to go out of town? Maybe somebody is sick and was in an accident. Slow down and relax.


----------



## SF-FAN

GTdad said:


> You got too invested way too early in the game.
> 
> Her non-responsiveness could be anything: she's sick, she's busy, she's a flake, she got tired of waiting for you to ask her out, etc. Point is, it shouldn't matter at this point.
> 
> Keep chatting with the ladies, and protect your heart a little more than you apparently do.


I do agree with you there but I guess it just happened all so fast I didn't think anything of it. We began messaging and it just continued until now.


----------



## bandit.45

Just wait. There is a good reason she hasn't texted. 

If by 12:00 pm noon she has not texted, text "Hey, hope you are having a good day." That's all. If still doesn't text, then do not text again until you hear from her. You don't want to seem clingy. 

Don't sweat it. She probably has a good reason.


----------



## SF-FAN

bryanp said:


> Whoa. You are letting your mind get the best of you. Maybe she had to go out of town? Maybe somebody is sick and was in an accident. Slow down and relax.


Very true.


----------



## FromEurope

SF-FAN said:


> It's only been a few days and she got out of a relationship herself not too long ago so I don't know that she'd be ready for any first step.



nothing serius... a cup of cofee to start, then go from there


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Just wait. There is a good reason she hasn't texted.
> 
> If by 12:00 pm noon she has not texted, text "Hey, hope you are having a good day." That's all. If still doesn't text, then do not text again until you hear from her. You don't want to seem clingy.
> 
> Don't sweat it. She probably has a good reason.


That's what I'm thinking and by no means do I plan on bombarding her with texts. IF she is done texting me for some reason, It'll take a few days but I'll be fine, just crazy how someone that's never been in my life has such an affect.


----------



## SF-FAN

FromEurope said:


> nothing serius... a cup of cofee to start, then go from there


Well Saturday night she messaged me that she was out with friends, I asked if she'd like to stop by to say hi and she did. We talked for a couple hours and then she left. She hugged me when she got there and when she left and then text me a few minutes after leaving. I've mentioned to her that when she doesn't have her daughter to let me know so she can come by and we can talk some more, she said that'd be great.

Both my WW and her ex are around this small town so I believe she doesn't want to go somewhere public to avoid any drama.


----------



## dubsey

She may have run out of battery or forgot her phone at home. Don't sweat it


----------



## Lovemytruck

SF-FAN,

Good to catch an update!

Doesn't it feel good just to know there are people out there that have potential? It is a little like chess when first meeting and dating someone. Lots of evaluating, self-examining, and nervous excitement. Enjoy all of it! Your battle with limbo is done. Remind yourself that your future lies in a new direction!

Thanks for the breath of fresh air from you. It is good for those still in despair to hear your positive outcomes.


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> Why do I feel like this and how do I get rid of this pain. I mean I've only talked to the girl for a few days.


Because you're not ready to date yet, you still don't like yourself enough, and you're tying your self-worth into whether or not someone else 'chooses' you.

I usually tell people not to spend that much time together (even texting) at first. Once a week, twice tops, to start. Slow down. Focus on the REST of your life. And therapy?


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> just crazy how someone that's never been in my life has such an affect.


Normal for someone who's not confident in themselves. Letting everyone ELSE tell them, show them, that they are valuable. You need to learn that you are valuable, all by yourself.


----------



## SF-FAN

turnera said:


> Because you're not ready to date yet, you still don't like yourself enough, and you're tying your self-worth into whether or not someone else 'chooses' you.
> 
> I usually tell people not to spend that much time together (even texting) at first. Once a week, twice tops, to start. Slow down. Focus on the REST of your life. And therapy?





turnera said:


> Normal for someone who's not confident in themselves. Letting everyone ELSE tell them, show them, that they are valuable. You need to learn that you are valuable, all by yourself.


I agree with that and I know I am not ready to date yet so I went into this intending it for it to just be a friendship for now. She is the one that kept the messages going. I guess part of it is that she's hot (even hotter than the WW) so that's a definite attraction there.

BUT I know I am allowing someone else define how valuable I am and I can't do that. I thought I was fine with myself but apparently not as much as I need to be.


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> I thought I was fine with myself but apparently not as much as I need to be.


I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every poster has come back and said that. The mind is a complex thing; it sets up surface 'ok-ness' so we think we've figured it out and moved on and stopped hurting. But that hurt is still there, just under the surface. Has to be replaced by time and experiences and realizations. Best I've heard is maybe 2 or 3 years before you can stop triggering and stop reacting to potential partners like you describe.


----------



## SF-FAN

turnera said:


> I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every poster has come back and said that. The mind is a complex thing; it sets up surface 'ok-ness' so we think we've figured it out and moved on and stopped hurting. But that hurt is still there, just under the surface. Has to be replaced by time and experiences and realizations. Best I've heard is maybe 2 or 3 years before you can stop triggering and stop reacting to potential partners like you describe.


Ugghhh 2 or 3 years? I mean I figured it'd take time but dang!


----------



## lordmayhem

turnera said:


> I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every poster has come back and said that. The mind is a complex thing; it sets up surface 'ok-ness' so we think we've figured it out and moved on and stopped hurting. But that hurt is still there, just under the surface. Has to be replaced by time and experiences and realizations. Best I've heard is maybe 2 or 3 years before you can stop triggering and stop reacting to potential partners like you describe.


:iagree:

When they say it takes on average, 2-5 years to recover from the trauma of infidelity, there were not kidding. It really does take that long for some people. 

We're not androids or Vulcans who can turn off their emotions at the flip of a switch.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

The last thing that you want to do is start looking needy to her.

You called a few times. She'll call when she wants to. Don't start pondering and second guessing why she hasn't called you back yet.

The ball is in her court now.

I wouldn't be concentrating on her, alone, right now. You just pulled your fishing rod out from the shed. How long has it been there, years? You had a nibble, then nothing. I'd start moving up and down the shore now. Why limit your casts to one small spot in the lake right now?...

I think that you're getting too fixated, seeing as you've only so recently gotten your freedom back.


----------



## SF-FAN

Yeah stepped back a bit and came back to reality. Because it was actually nice to have someone show some interest, I got a little too excited and eager. I've kept it very cool though. She's messaged me since and I acted like if nothing. Real casual, real light. I'm not going to act desperate. 

I think I am going to scale it back a bit for me though. This just shows me that I can still get women so I'm going to keep being independent and take my time. I know I don't want a full blown relationship right now anyway. I'm just now getting used to living alone and being alone and honestly kind of like that freedom.


----------



## U.E. McGill

I know it's a small town and options are limited. But try to stay away from oneitis. 

Check on some of the dating sites. Maybe set up a few dates in an extended radius? 

Hell I'll drive 2 hours just to fish.

A man with options has power and control. That'll give you confidence.


----------



## weightlifter

Dude. Watch the needy. LET HER RESPOND.


----------



## tom67

U.E. McGill said:


> I know it's a small town and options are limited. But try to stay away from oneitis.
> 
> Check on some of the dating sites. Maybe set up a few dates in an extended radius?
> 
> Hell I'll drive 2 hours just to fish.
> 
> A man with options has power and control. That'll give you confidence.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Well said.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every poster has come back and said that. The mind is a complex thing; it sets up surface 'ok-ness' so we think we've figured it out and moved on and stopped hurting. But that hurt is still there, just under the surface. Has to be replaced by time and experiences and realizations. Best I've heard is maybe 2 or 3 years before you can stop triggering and stop reacting to potential partners like you describe.


The Queen Executioner of tall poppies speaks.


----------



## turnera

I have no idea what you mean.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> The Queen Executioner of tall poppies speaks.


Someone has been hitting the poppies:scratchhead:


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> I have no idea what you mean.


Tall poppy syndrome. When someone gets too full of himself he's cut down to size. 

I'm sorry. I'm a d!ck. I've had a crap day.


----------



## the guy

Cheer up Bandit, its almost the weekend!


----------



## turnera

Sorry, too dense. Are you saying I'm full of myself? Don't understand.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Sorry, too dense. Are you saying I'm full of myself? Don't understand.


No. You (and I too) tend to enjoy cutting down to size people we think are too full of themselves. 

Nevermind.


----------



## turnera

Huh. Ok. I don't 'enjoy' tearing people down to my level. I try to help people avoid putting themselves ABOVE their level, I guess.


----------



## tom67

bandit's ok
I make mistakes too.


----------



## convert

Turnera is one of the most level head posters on this site.

the only time I have seen her get really frustrated was on SteveK thread.
when she starts typing in all caps you know she is aggravated as was most everyone on that thread.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Huh. Ok. I don't 'enjoy' tearing people down to my level. I try to help people avoid putting themselves ABOVE their level, I guess.


Mom.


----------



## turnera

Pretty much. I'm old enough to be almost everyone's mom.


----------



## weightlifter

turnera said:


> Pretty much. I'm old enough to be almost everyone's mom.


by post count alone!

#runsfromtheexecutioner!


----------



## turnera

meh, that's going to end soon. I start a new job soon and won't be able to waste all this time, lol.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> meh, that's going to end soon. I start a new job soon and won't be able to waste all this time, lol.


Good for you!


----------



## weightlifter

turnera said:


> meh, that's going to end soon. I start a new job soon and won't be able to waste all this time, lol.


DO STAY. While we don't always agree:
1) CWI Runs too male heavy.
2) I am not offended when you don't agree with me and are wrong.

#runslikehell


----------



## SF-FAN

Alright so quick update on my situation:

On the advice of the a very experienced family law attorney, I have not filed for D because she believes that with the way the (pro women) judges are in this county, and the fact that my wife only has a part-time job, I will get reamed with marital support and child support to where I will be living a very meager existence. Basically, since this is a no fault state, she can get me by the balls and not much I can do about it so she said to wait until the WW gets a full-time job, which will be within the next year.

That being the case, WW and I see each other about 2 min. a day when swapping kids, don't text, don't spend time together, basically live like strangers HOWEVER, because the the status of our relationship is not completely defined, I feel like I can't even see another girl without possibly getting fvcked. Now I'm not looking to start another relationship but the WW makes snide comments about me seeing other women. All the while I have reason to believe she is still seeing POSOM but no definite proof.

I am not going to tell WW to fvck off, start a fight, get into an altercation that may lead me to get screwed in the end so keep that advice to yourselves. Believe it or not, I am happiest when things are civil, no matter what she's doing. I have come along way with detaching so really can care less what she does as long as it doesn't negatively affect my kids.


----------



## weightlifter

Forget the term of your marriage but remember CA is also one of the worst for perm alimony at like only 10 years.


----------



## bfree

If it's a no fault state and you aren't even living together why can't you date?


----------



## SF-FAN

bfree said:


> If it's a no fault state and you aren't even living together why can't you date?


No one is saying I can't but I feel like I can't because the WW will immediately file for D if she were to find out and I'd be screwed...at least right now I would.

If we D right now, she'd get marital support and child support from me. That would significantly change my way of life.


----------



## Lostinthought61

give your situation i would sit her down and recommend an open marriage....you have nothing to lose at this point, since she is of the mind that being married to you is an inconvenience then allow both side to have some what of a relationship with another. otherwise she must agree to complete transparency on both sides. and if she refuses that, then get a PI to follow her until you have proof then make her agree at that point.


----------



## weightlifter

Xen. He has proof but he is in CA. She could screw a football team and still get alimony. Not sure there is a worse state than CA for the higher earning spouse. Usually the male but that is changing.


----------



## Ripper

Dude, you are screwed. When she figures out that she can cash in the marriage for all those cash and prizes, you aren't going to have an option. She is holding you hostage with a gun provided by the government.

To the divorce industry, you are just another "disposable male". They don't care if you live in destitution. Even if she starts working full time, you will still pay out the nose. Start thinking about going outside the box.

I don't know much about California, the state has gone communist, and I don't intend on visiting. (unless I'm part of the military force that eventually liberates everyone) Move to a different state and file. Look into hiding assets. Sign your home over to a relative and pay them "rent". Try anything and if your attorney won't help, find one that doesn't care to play dirty.

Sorry man, this is just awful.


----------



## weightlifter

Evil idea. Move to NV tell her its for school. She will think its a free pass... File in NV first. Ask your lawyer.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Nevada only requires 6 weeks residence. 

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Division/Research/Publications/Factsheets/Residency.pdf


----------



## SF-FAN

And to top if off she's acting like a psycho. Though we don't see each other except for kid swaps and only text about the kids, one minute she's civil and the next she's insinuating I am having women over my house (which I am not). I am not ready for that yet. She's driving me crazy, honestly don't know what to do. 

And thanks for the advice but I am in no position to move out of state, I have a good job and am not leaving it for her.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> And to top if off she's acting like a psycho. Though we don't see each other except for kid swaps and only text about the kids, one minute she's civil and the next she's insinuating I am having women over my house (which I am not). I am not ready for that yet. She's driving me crazy, honestly don't know what to do.
> 
> And thanks for the advice but I am in no position to move out of state, I have a good job and am not leaving it for her.


Well she thinks you are just like her. Cheaters think everyone thinks the way they do. Tell her that.


----------



## tom67

What I don't get is the longer you wait, the longer the length of the marriage and thus the longer the alimony.
Unless she is agreeing out of court.:scratchhead:


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> A*nd to top if off she's acting like a psycho*. Though we don't see each other except for kid swaps and only text about the kids, one minute she's civil and the next she's insinuating I am having women over my house (which I am not). I am not ready for that yet. She's driving me crazy, honestly don't know what to do.
> 
> And thanks for the advice but I am in no position to move out of state, I have a good job and am not leaving it for her.


Remember Vegas act Sigfried and Roy?? Remember when the Tiger ate Roy?? Chris Rock did a bit on how he was tired of hearing that the Tiger went crazy. "He didnt go crazy...the tiger went tiger". After fallowing your posts over the last year, seems SF-Fans Wife isnt acting Psycho...shes acting SF-Fans Wife. In other words, this all seems par for the course if you ask me


----------



## Lostinthought61

Better yet move to texas...no alimony


----------



## SF-FAN

tom67 said:


> What I don't get is the longer you wait, the longer the length of the marriage and thus the longer the alimony.
> Unless she is agreeing out of court.:scratchhead:


Not necessarily. According to my attorney, if she has a full-time job when we D, the marital support will be significantly less and if she's in a relationship with someone else at the time, she may not care to demand it.

Right now she only has a part-time job so I'd get by balls handed to me. There is a slight chance she might agree out of court, however, with her bi-polar behavior there is no guarantee. Right now the best course of action, unfortunately, is to not piss her off.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Your blinders are off, you are seeing your real wife. If you look back at your dating and marriage, you'll see there were warning signs, but love and kids mask these things.


----------



## weightlifter

Make sure its over before you graduate.  The LAST thing you want is your alimony being based on a lawyers salary instead of a whatever you are now salary.

Look into a leave of absense. SF. This is HIGH STAKES poker. Think years, not months.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Make sure its over before you graduate. The LAST thing you want is your alimony being based on a lawyers salary instead of a whatever you are now salary.
> 
> Look into a leave of absense. SF. This is HIGH STAKES poker. Think years, not months.


Well according to the WW, someone told her I was talking bad about her at a bar on Saturday night (which I wasn't) and that to her is the straw that broke the camel's back so we're completely done. 

Now I have mixed feelings about this and I don't know why. One thing that angers me is the fact that I am being accused of something I didn't do and she's using that as an excuse to be completely done. Albeit, I thought we were completely done but at least we were on decent terms. Now she is saying she is moving on and to leave her the fvck alone unless it has to do with my son. 

Why am I feeling mixed feelings? Why do I actually care? And what do I do about it?


----------



## turnera

Because it took the control out of your hands and that's a horrible feeling. You deal with by LAUGHING at her and moving on with YOUR life. The best revenge is forgetting she ever existed.


----------



## warlock07

You weren't completely done before this?

were you angling for R?

She is doing this because she wants some power back...

She is hitting you at your most insecure spot : rejection



> Now she is saying she is moving on and to leave her the fvck alone unless it has to do with my son.


Tell her "good riddance" and you would have done this much earlier if this is how you can get rid of her completely.


What did she accuse you of saying/ that she is a lying cheating $#%^@

Do hard 180. She did you a favor.All this time you were making excuses to hang around.


----------



## SF-FAN

warlock07 said:


> You weren't completely done before this?
> 
> were you angling for R?
> 
> She is doing this because she wants some power back...
> 
> She is hitting you at your most insecure spot : rejection
> 
> 
> Tell her "good riddance" and you would have done this much earlier if this is how you can get rid of her completely.
> 
> 
> What did she accuse you of saying/ that she is a lying cheating $#%^@
> 
> Do hard 180. She did you a favor.All this time you were making excuses to hang around.


I thought we were done that's why I'm a little surprised. After I let it sink in, I told her "believe what you want, good riddance" and went about my business. 

Didn't talk to her all day saturday cause the kids were away for the weekend but yesterday her tune was a bit different when discussing the kids.


----------



## bigfoot

SF, and I forgive you if that is a reference to your fav football team, but I have followed you a while. Please take no offense, but you are not living honestly. You deny yourself relationships because you fear your ex will file for divorce. Presumably, you will take a bath in the divorce. You are letting her rule your life and are still miserable. Detaching is hard, but it will only start when you live honestly. If you miss her, admit it and get advice. Don't create false scenarios where you are trapped in her orbit. YOU CONCEDE YOUR POWER OVER YOUR LIFE. Seriously, she cheated, she altered your marriage and happiness, she took your power away and now you concede it. Stop. Take your power back. Be seen in public with other women. Make it known to anyone that cares that she cheated. If she files, go hard. You wait to file for tactical reasons, Fine. That's power. You live so she won't file, that's conceding it.

I am a lawyer and even if she gets spousal support, you can petition to modify that if she gets a fulltime job. Also, how much money are we really talking about?! Is it enough to continue to let her affect your ability to interact with women, etc.? Is it unalterable? Will you never be better off financially? Your life will improve. Get legal advice from a lawyer in your area and do not take my statements as legal advice on your case. (Told you I was a lawyer)

You have done awesome and deserve an "attaboy" for how far you have come. Now, its time to be honest with yourself and this board. Having a lifestyle where you respond to her comments about you really being over due to you talking bad about her lying cheating azz and worrying about her seeing you with another woman and actually moving on with your life is not healthy. 

You and she both need to see you moving on with your life. Detaching comes when you put some distance between you. Emotional, mental, and social distance. I'm pulling for you, so I say this in the hopes that it motivates you. Maybe you tell me to stfu, but I know I say this with the best intentions.


----------



## SF-FAN

bigfoot said:


> SF, and I forgive you if that is a reference to your fav football team, but I have followed you a while. Please take no offense, but you are not living honestly. You deny yourself relationships because you fear your ex will file for divorce. Presumably, you will take a bath in the divorce. You are letting her rule your life and are still miserable. Detaching is hard, but it will only start when you live honestly. If you miss her, admit it and get advice. Don't create false scenarios where you are trapped in her orbit. YOU CONCEDE YOUR POWER OVER YOUR LIFE. Seriously, she cheated, she altered your marriage and happiness, she took your power away and now you concede it. Stop. Take your power back. Be seen in public with other women. Make it known to anyone that cares that she cheated. If she files, go hard. You wait to file for tactical reasons, Fine. That's power. You live so she won't file, that's conceding it.
> 
> I am a lawyer and even if she gets spousal support, you can petition to modify that if she gets a fulltime job. Also, how much money are we really talking about?! Is it enough to continue to let her affect your ability to interact with women, etc.? Is it unalterable? Will you never be better off financially? Your life will improve. Get legal advice from a lawyer in your area and do not take my statements as legal advice on your case. (Told you I was a lawyer)
> 
> You have done awesome and deserve an "attaboy" for how far you have come. Now, its time to be honest with yourself and this board. Having a lifestyle where you respond to her comments about you really being over due to you talking bad about her lying cheating azz and worrying about her seeing you with another woman and actually moving on with your life is not healthy.
> 
> You and she both need to see you moving on with your life. Detaching comes when you put some distance between you. Emotional, mental, and social distance. I'm pulling for you, so I say this in the hopes that it motivates you. Maybe you tell me to stfu, but I know I say this with the best intentions.


Thanks for this Bigfoot. Sometime you just need to get a good shake and "wake the fvck up." We somehow slipped into a weird zone where we don't interact much, live separately, but aren't completely detached, yet live separate lives. I do need to start living without fear of retribution. I didn't do anything wrong, she did.


----------



## bigfoot

THAT'S what I'm talking about!! You did NOTHING wrong. And in so far as some existential or legal azz kicking, let me tell you something. I am a big strong guy. When I was a kid, I got bullied a few times. Two times were particularly bad. After that, I made the following my code of conduct when faced with fear or fearful prospects: "If I am going to get my azz kicked, its gonna happen while I'm trying to kick some azz". I never got bullied again, and that was before I grew. After I grew, there was one bully that needed to know fear. I took my power back and some of his, too. 

My point is this, you may still be weakened from all that has happened and scared of the future prospects but if the sh*t is gonna hit the fan, well, you get to throw some, too. Don't wait to grow before you start to fight back. Reclaim your life. Reclaim your potential relationships. Set yourself up to win if she wants to file. Protect assets, do what it takes to to come out on the winning side of other decisions. This is training camp, my misguided football fan. You want to make the cut, do more than needed, let the rest worry about their jobs.


----------



## SF-FAN

Well things have calmed after the "heard you were talking bad about me" drama. I literally only talk to or see the WW at kids swaps. Been chatting with a very nice, very pretty girl as friends, no pressure just very light and friendly conversation.

Here's the messed up part. I've been missing the WW and having a family under the same roof. And I don't know why! This weekend especially, I just could not shake the feeling of missing her and my kids. Even after I think about all the f'd up stuff she did - I just don't get it!


----------



## happyman64

Because as humans we only want to see the good in people.

It is human nature.

And over all those years you still had good history with that woman.

You are tied to her for life.

Be strong but also be patient. With yourself.

HM


----------



## Chaparral

You were missing her because you weren't using your time wisely. How do you miss a wife that was porking other men anyway?

Tell her since you don't know why someone would lie on you, she mist must have made up the story herself for what ever reason. Tell her it doesn't matter what the reason was because you could care less.

Quit trying to reason her actions. She shows you over and over she wouldn't p!ss on you if you were on fire.

Get a date and then go to the same bar and talk smack about her. Then watch her tune change. You disgust her because you act so needy and weak. Show her some balls and you will see a we change in her behavior.


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> Not necessarily. According to my attorney, if she has a full-time job when we D, the marital support will be significantly less and if she's in a relationship with someone else at the time, she may not care to demand it.
> 
> Right now she only has a part-time job so I'd get by balls handed to me. There is a slight chance she might agree out of court, however, with her bi-polar behavior there is no guarantee. Right now the best course of action, unfortunately, is to not piss her off.


How brutal is it that she ****s you over in the worst way possible, and now you have to tippy toe around her so she doesn't **** you over even harder? Heinous.


----------



## Healer

SF-FAN said:


> Well according to the WW, someone told her I was talking bad about her at a bar on Saturday night (which I wasn't) and that to her is the straw that broke the camel's back so we're completely done.
> 
> Now I have mixed feelings about this and I don't know why. One thing that angers me is the fact that I am being accused of something I didn't do and she's using that as an excuse to be completely done. Albeit, I thought we were completely done but at least we were on decent terms. Now she is saying she is moving on and to leave her the fvck alone unless it has to do with my son.
> 
> Why am I feeling mixed feelings? Why do I actually care? And what do I do about it?


It's still new for you and it's not so easy to just move on and detach. But you have to. It's been "done" for real for a while now. She's toxic bro. This is harsh and stressful right now, but trust me, you are WAY better off without her as your wife.

However, you are in for a rollercoaster of emotions and craziness for some time to come. It's been nearly 2 years for me and I'm still not 100% over it. But it gets better every damn day. Trust me.


----------



## Healer

bigfoot said:


> SF, and I forgive you if that is a reference to your fav football team, but I have followed you a while. Please take no offense, but you are not living honestly. You deny yourself relationships because you fear your ex will file for divorce. Presumably, you will take a bath in the divorce. You are letting her rule your life and are still miserable. Detaching is hard, but it will only start when you live honestly. If you miss her, admit it and get advice. Don't create false scenarios where you are trapped in her orbit. YOU CONCEDE YOUR POWER OVER YOUR LIFE. Seriously, she cheated, she altered your marriage and happiness, she took your power away and now you concede it. Stop. Take your power back. Be seen in public with other women. Make it known to anyone that cares that she cheated. If she files, go hard. You wait to file for tactical reasons, Fine. That's power. You live so she won't file, that's conceding it.
> 
> I am a lawyer and even if she gets spousal support, you can petition to modify that if she gets a fulltime job. Also, how much money are we really talking about?! Is it enough to continue to let her affect your ability to interact with women, etc.? Is it unalterable? Will you never be better off financially? Your life will improve. Get legal advice from a lawyer in your area and do not take my statements as legal advice on your case. (Told you I was a lawyer)
> 
> You have done awesome and deserve an "attaboy" for how far you have come. Now, its time to be honest with yourself and this board. Having a lifestyle where you respond to her comments about you really being over due to you talking bad about her lying cheating azz and worrying about her seeing you with another woman and actually moving on with your life is not healthy.
> 
> You and she both need to see you moving on with your life. Detaching comes when you put some distance between you. Emotional, mental, and social distance. I'm pulling for you, so I say this in the hopes that it motivates you. Maybe you tell me to stfu, but I know I say this with the best intentions.


Haha! I had an internet lawyer friend say the same thing to me when I was first going through the breakup due to her infidelity. He was actually quite a bit more harsh with his words - he actually busted my balls really bad. But man oh man, was he right. And I actually listened to him and followed his advice. He was super hard on me but said it out of love (well, internet friend man-love  ) and because he truly wanted to see me do what was best for me.

Your advice is 100% dead on. Take heed, SF.


----------



## SF-FAN

Chaparral said:


> You were missing her because you weren't using your time wisely. How do you miss a wife that was porking other men anyway?
> 
> Tell her since you don't know why someone would lie on you, she mist must have made up the story herself for what ever reason. Tell her it doesn't matter what the reason was because you could care less.
> 
> Quit trying to reason her actions. She shows you over and over she wouldn't p!ss on you if you were on fire.
> 
> Get a date and then go to the same bar and talk smack about her. Then watch her tune change. You disgust her because you act so needy and weak. Show her some balls and you will see a we change in her behavior.


Honestly I haven't acted weak or needy at all. I've pulled away big time, enough for her to wonder why. She's made comments alluding to the fact that I may be seeing someone and I don't respond. As far as "talking bad about her" I only defended the fact that I didn't because I have a huge issue with being accused of something I didn't do not because I really care what she thinks. 

Talking with new people and this new girl has seriously helped me but I find that I still have weak moments like today and I wish I knew why given how WW has treated me.


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> Talking with new people and this new girl has seriously helped me but I find that I still have weak moments like today and I wish I knew why given how WW has treated me.


It's just human nature to, the minute someone else shows dislike, reproof, or even disinterest in you, to feel vulnerable, to feel fear. Anyone who says they don't is lying.


----------



## warlock07

Is this new girl as good looking as your ex ?


----------



## toonaive

Healer said:


> Haha! I had an internet lawyer friend say the same thing to me when I was first going through the breakup due to her infidelity. He was actually quite a bit more harsh with his words - he actually busted my balls really bad. But man oh man, was he right. And I actually listened to him and followed his advice. He was super hard on me but said it out of love (well, internet friend man-love  ) and because he truly wanted to see me do what was best for me.
> 
> Your advice is 100% dead on. Take heed, SF.


Bigfoot is correct! In 2005 when I caught my STBXW cheating on me, I had everything I need in my state for No alimony, and full custody of my sons. I R. I made the right decisions for the right reasons. I am now in the process, for the last 2 years 9 months, divorcing the same woman for her same repeated actions. This time, Im going all the way. It hasnt been easy. But it has been worth it. I don't regret filing again. I have no regrets about anything having to do with my STBXW anymore. You know what you want to do deep in your heart. Make your plan, and follow through with it. By doing so, you will get your self respect back. Even your X will come to see that.


----------



## treyvion

warlock07 said:


> Is this new girl as good looking as your ex ?


Why is this the top qualifier? Could be better looking but treat him even worse.


----------



## SF-FAN

warlock07 said:


> Is this new girl as good looking as your ex ?


Better looking BUT also fresh out of a relationship so I am not looking for more than a friendship with her or anyone right now.


----------



## treyvion

turnera said:


> It's just human nature to, the minute someone else shows dislike, reproof, or even disinterest in you, to feel vulnerable, to feel fear. Anyone who says they don't is lying.


Depends on how strong you are. What if you are the one working the frames, you got 5 females, and one of them turns on you strongly. It would not affect you one bit, you wouldn't spend a lot of time on her, possibly dropping her over time.


----------



## turnera

Agree to disagree.


----------



## weightlifter

Do they impute income in CA? I live in the man hating northeast and the judges in my state take a dim view of a spouse only working part time. Their reason is support of the kids but its one of the few things that work for men here.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Do they impute income in CA? I live in the man hating northeast and the judges in my state take a dim view of a spouse only working part time. Their reason is support of the kids but its one of the few things that work for men here.


I really don't know the specifics but since she works part-time and is a student and I work full-time, I can get screwed royally even though she is the one that cheated on me. How's that for fair?

Aside from her having financial issues, she seems to be doing fine which makes me mad because she is the one that broke up the family, she is the one that ruined everything yet I'm still in pain. I don't know, starting to believe there is no such thing as karma.


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## LongWalk

Hang tough. When you're at the kid swaps wear your best game face.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## warlock07

treyvion said:


> Why is this the top qualifier? Could be better looking but treat him even worse.


 I wanted to see SF's response this to question. If he is still pedestalling his wife.


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## Chaparral

Make your own karma and quit wallowing! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tq_qL79lejA 

Follow the prime directive


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## SF-FAN

warlock07 said:


> I wanted to see SF's response this to question. If he is still pedestalling his wife.


Yes a couple of the other girls I talk to are better looking and appear to have better attitudes than my WW. Nope, no pedestalling. I've been doing the 180 as much as it can possibly be done while still having to keep in contact for the kids. I've detached, especially because I do talk to other girls but like I said previously, I'm not jumping into any relationship other than a friendship.


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## treyvion

Healer said:


> Haha! I had an internet lawyer friend say the same thing to me when I was first going through the breakup due to her infidelity. He was actually quite a bit more harsh with his words - he actually busted my balls really bad. But man oh man, was he right. And I actually listened to him and followed his advice. He was super hard on me but said it out of love (well, internet friend man-love  ) and because he truly wanted to see me do what was best for me.
> 
> Your advice is 100% dead on. Take heed, SF.


What was the advise?


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## SF-FAN

So I decided to come back to see what is going on with the thread and give an update. Since my last post, WW have divorced and she wanted nothing from me, no child support, no spousal, nothing. She even let me keep everything. She met someone (not POSOM) and moved in with him. They were together for several months and turns out he treated her like crap. She called me after their breakup crying and apologized for everything she did to me. She is now living with a friend in a small room and has little money. She told me herself karma got her good. 

Before her most recent relationship though, she was with POSOM for a little while and turns out he physically and mentally abused her. So long story short, she regrets everything.

Since our breakup I have healed 100%, live alone in a nice home and have several "girl" friends that I hang out with. I have come to enjoy my freedom and don't want to be in a relationship at the moment. I am happier than I've been in a long time.


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## Openminded

I remember your story. Glad to hear that karma got her. She totally deserves it. 

Thanks for the update!


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## Tatsuhiko

SF-FAN said:


> ...she seems to be doing fine which makes me mad because she is the one that broke up the family, she is the one that ruined everything yet I'm still in pain. I don't know, starting to believe there is no such thing as karma.


So much for that theory!


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## Evinrude58

I remember your story also.

So life is better not swimming with the anchor around your neck?
Shocking!

Glad to hear you're doing well, your own abuser has vindicated you, and you aren't stepping in poo again!

Bravo!


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## SF-FAN

Thank you all. It wasn't easy at first, I'll be the first to admit but once you taste life, real life, without the threat of being cheated on, there's nothing like it. I've had my chances to be in new relationships but am really enjoying doing what I want when I want with who I want. There are TOO many women out there to settle being cheated on.


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## Marc878

SF-FAN said:


> So I decided to come back to see what is going on with the thread and give an update. Since my last post, WW have divorced and she wanted nothing from me, no child support, no spousal, nothing. She even let me keep everything. She met someone (not POSOM) and moved in with him. They were together for several months and turns out he treated her like crap. She called me after their breakup crying and apologized for everything she did to me. She is now living with a friend in a small room and has little money. She told me herself karma got her good.
> 
> AwwW poor muffin
> 
> Before her most recent relationship though, she was with POSOM for a little while and turns out he physically and mentally abused her. So long story short, she regrets everything.
> 
> Awww poor muffin
> 
> Since our breakup I have healed 100%, live alone in a nice home and have several "girl" friends that I hang out with. I have come to enjoy my freedom and don't want to be in a relationship at the moment. I am happier than I've been in a long time.


Not your monkeys not your show now. History repeats be glad you got out of this fairly clean. Lose her number and block her ass.


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## Marc878

SF-FAN said:


> Thank you all. It wasn't easy at first, I'll be the first to admit but once you taste life, real life, without the threat of being cheated on, there's nothing like it. I've had my chances to be in new relationships but am really enjoying doing what I want when I want with who I want. There are TOO many women out there to settle being cheated on.


Give her a parting shot. My tastes have changed and you're not the type I'd date now.

Have a good life. I got over it and so can you >


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## TDSC60

SF-FAN said:


> Thank you all. It wasn't easy at first, I'll be the first to admit but once you taste life, real life, without the threat of being cheated on, there's nothing like it. I've had my chances to be in new relationships but am really enjoying doing what I want when I want with who I want. There are TOO many women out there to settle being cheated on.


There is nothing wrong with living alone and just having fun with friends. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be in a "committed relationship".

Congrats on understanding that your enjoyment of life depends on your outlook and not on what other people think.


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## chillymorn69

Nice update!


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## sokillme

SF-FAN said:


> Thank you all. It wasn't easy at first, I'll be the first to admit but once you taste life, real life, without the threat of being cheated on, there's nothing like it. I've had my chances to be in new relationships but am really enjoying doing what I want when I want with who I want. There are TOO many women out there to settle being cheated on.


Stick around and spread the word. I wish more BS would realize this. But people need to say it.


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## farsidejunky

Welcome back, brother. I often wondered what happened to you, especially with your struggles to free yourself from your WW.

Nice update. It is cliche, yet so true...the best revenge is living well.

Don't be a stranger.


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## KrissyR

Hey! Thank you for sharing your story and coming back and giving an update. I am going through something very similar but i am only one month post DDay (but 2 months post separation). I clearly have a long journey ahead of me but it is nice knowing someone who felt the same way I do now can be in a much better place without their spouse. Reading your story has really helped me so thank you for sharing =) May you have countless blessings


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## Satya

Onwards and upwards, as they say. 

Oh, and block your ex. There's no reason to keep an open channel of communication. Leave her completely to her own fate.


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## DEMI6

SF-FAN said:


> Things have been cold for a while so for all I know she might have been planning to leave me for the OM. I don't know. Maybe she feels that if she weathers the storm, she'll get what she wants which is to not be with me and be with him.
> 
> I'm not begging her at all. I told her I don't know what I want. Inside I want to work things out and for things to be better but why? Why do I want to do that with someone that did that to me and our kids?


Love

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


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## thummper

This is great. Nice to have an update after several years. So often posters simply disappear and we never know how their problems worked out. Thanks for the report. Doncha just love it when the cheater finally gets what they deserve? Isn't there an old saying about the grass only looks greener because it's located over the cesspool? Guess she found that out. >


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## aine

Evinrude58 said:


> I remember your story also.
> 
> So life is better not swimming with the anchor around your neck?
> Shocking!
> 
> Glad to hear you're doing well, your own abuser has vindicated you, and you aren't stepping in poo again!
> 
> Bravo!


What goes around always comes around...............


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## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> So I decided to come back to see what is going on with the thread and give an update. Since my last post, WW have divorced and she wanted nothing from me, no child support, no spousal, nothing. She even let me keep everything. She met someone (not POSOM) and moved in with him. They were together for several months and turns out he treated her like crap. She called me after their breakup crying and apologized for everything she did to me. She is now living with a friend in a small room and has little money. She told me herself karma got her good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before her most recent relationship though, she was with POSOM for a little while and turns out he physically and mentally abused her. So long story short, she regrets everything.
> 
> 
> :surprise: *DAMN!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since our breakup I have healed 100%, live alone in a nice home and have several "girl" friends that I hang out with. I have come to enjoy my freedom and don't want to be in a relationship at the moment. I am happier than I've been in a long time.


:allhail:


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## SF-FAN

Marc878 said:


> Not your monkeys not your show now. History repeats be glad you got out of this fairly clean. Lose her number and block her ass.


Unfortunately I can't cut all contact with her because we do have kids BUT I made it clear to her that just because we talk/text about the kids DOES NOT mean it's an invitation back into my life. Luckily she's left me alone other than to discuss the kids. I keep it very short and to the point and so does she. 

Now that I've healed, I don't find her attractive or have feelings for her at all so I'm good. I've met women that are more attractive and have better hearts so I will not go back to that. I've never felt so strong in my life. No one has a hold on me and I will never allow any one to again.


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## SF-FAN

KrissyR said:


> Hey! Thank you for sharing your story and coming back and giving an update. I am going through something very similar but i am only one month post DDay (but 2 months post separation). I clearly have a long journey ahead of me but it is nice knowing someone who felt the same way I do now can be in a much better place without their spouse. Reading your story has really helped me so thank you for sharing =) May you have countless blessings


Your DDAY is relatively recent so I'm sure it's still hard for you BUT hold on to one thing, THERE ARE MILLIONS OF MEN OUT THERE, ones that will NOT cheat, ones that will treat you better. You will not die without him. You will NOT. For years I clung to the idea that maybe, just maybe she'd have a change of heart. I hit rock bottom of loneliness, I went through absolute despair but I finally picked myself up and moved on. The more I realized I didn't need her, the stronger I got. Now I'm stronger than I've ever been and am a way better person. I am no longer clingy, no longer co-dependent and know that I don't need someone else to make me happy. I make me happy. Oddly enough, I guess women see the confidence in me and I've met several great once that would like a relationship but I'm just not ready to give up my freedom. Stay strong.


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## TDSC60

SF - you have discovered one of life's great truths. No one can MAKE you happy. True happiness comes from within. Being comfortable with who you are.


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## Foghorn

Wow, 

I'm so happy to hear your awesome update. Congrats on getting your freedom, selfhood and happiness back. There is an amazing future out there for you and you are ready to get your share. 

Great job bro.
-FH


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## TX-SC

A sad tale, but one with a happy ending! You sound like you are doing well. Kudos to you for taking control of your own life, for your own sake and for the sake of your kids. You are setting a great example by being resolute in your morals. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Truthseeker1

SF-FAN said:


> . There are TOO many women out there to settle being cheated on.


QFT!!!! This needs to be repeated again and again....


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## Vex

One of the best updates I've read in a while (long time lurker here.) Really glad to hear you're doing well and enjoying life!


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## turnera

SF-Fan, great update. I'm reading Robert B Parker's book Hush Money right now, and every sentence of your update, I'm thinking 'he needs to read this book!' Not exactly your story, but it's got a woman who cheats on her husband, leaves him for the OM, and all that ensues. Pretty cool story. You'd like it.


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## SF-FAN

It feels good. I'm in my late 30s but feel like I am a teenager with endless possibilities ahead and no mental or emotional anchors holding me back. Looking back I wonder why I was trying to hold on so bad. So many people out there to enjoy life with instead of being tormented by the pain of infidelity on a daily basis. I guess in hindsight I didn't think I could do any better, was too lazy to start over, probably many other stupid reasons but something good definitely happened out of my broken marriage. I became a better person and I'm glad for that.

Turnera, I will definitely have to check that book out.


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## stillthinking

> It feels good. I'm in my late 30s but feel like I am a teenager with endless possibilities ahead and no mental or emotional anchors holding me back. Looking back I wonder why I was trying to hold on so bad. So many people out there to enjoy life with instead of being tormented by the pain of infidelity on a daily basis.


I wish every BH could read this before making the knee jerk decision to R. You read on other boards (SI) and what do you find? BS after BS posting about their pain, insecurity, anger, sadness, and regrets. Many of them have been in "R" for YEARS! Years spent in daily pain and anguish. 

Your posts shows that there are pleny of people that are affiar-baggage free to date. Why settle with a know cheater? I wonder if some people actually need the pain. It has come to define them. 

Anyway gald to hear you have made a new a better life for yourself.


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## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> Turnera, I will definitely have to check that book out.


lol, I just finished it yesterday, and the ending to that particular vein in the book was VERY enjoyable. You'd love it.


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## Evinrude58

Life without a cheater can be good???

Whodathunkit?

Sure doesn't seem like it when you're in it, but one can ever get out--- it's crystal clear moving on is best.

My ex did me a solid in basically giving me no choice but to ask her to leave, and then refusing to come back. It sure did hurt. I'd literally cut my own finger off to avoid that kind of emotional pain again. 

I am glad you ar out of it, too, SF.
🤛


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## wishingwell

your last post of being healed has given me some hope... thank you for sharing your story


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## Lostinthought61

SF, i re-read your post again, and just curious about one thing...what ever happen to that couple where the wife also cheated and you tried to reach out for advise...did Karma roll over her as well? Also did you graduate from law school?


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## SF-FAN

Lostinthought61 said:


> SF, i re-read your post again, and just curious about one thing...what ever happen to that couple where the wife also cheated and you tried to reach out for advise...did Karma roll over her as well? Also did you graduate from law school?


I honestly don't recall who that is. I'd have to re-ready the thread again. I know several people my age that I thought would be married forever but come to find out, infidelity hit them also so I'm not sure which particular one I was talking about. Some cheating spouses that I know unfortunately have not been hit by the karma bus but it's only a matter of time.


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## SF-FAN

ThePheonix said:


> No Dawg, the best thing to do is cover your own azz. The exposure thing is nothing short of revenge, which is fine; as long as it doesn't come at a cost that exceeds its value. Alimony/spousal support for many months greatly exceeds to cost once you get of the "being PO'd" and realize that getting rid of her is the best thing that's happened.
> It's like a buddy of mine said, "*now that I'm rid of that harpy, I'd like to shake the hand of the guy who stole her*"


Divorce is final and she didn't ask for anything. No child support, No spousal support, I keep everything as far as tangible property and my money in my bank accounts. She was such in a hurry to file that she drafted all the paper work and paid the $435 filing fee. The Divorce petition favored me so much I didn't even respond or oppose which saved me the $435 fee of responding. I just let it proceed through the court until final. 

When she moved out to be with POSOM she left me all household items including furniture. Since things didn't work out with POSOM and her most recent BF, she's out on her ass living with a friend and nothing but the clothes on her back and minimal money. 

Things worked out for me but I don't shake the hands of parasites....I'd rather just laugh and live happily.


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## CantBelieveThis

Glad to hear, you deserve a good life and there is nothing wrong with staying single at all. 
As for her, well she has to dig herself out of her own hole!

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


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## Thound

SF-FAN said:


> Divorce is final and she didn't ask for anything. No child support, No spousal support, I keep everything as far as tangible property and my money in my bank accounts. She was such in a hurry to file that she drafted all the paper work and paid the $435 filing fee. The Divorce petition favored me so much I didn't even respond or oppose which saved me the $435 fee of responding. I just let it proceed through the court until final.
> 
> When she moved out to be with POSOM she left me all household items including furniture. Since things didn't work out with POSOM and her most recent BF, she's out on her ass living with a friend and nothing but the clothes on her back and minimal money.
> 
> Things worked out for me but I don't shake the hands of parasites....I'd rather just laugh and live happily.


Ahh, so sweet. Love it when the karma train comes rolling in.


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## CantBelieveThis

SF-FAN said:


> Some cheating spouses that I know unfortunately have not been hit by the karma bus but it's only a matter of time.


I dont personally believe the karma thing, i also know people that have cheated and are living a good like with the POSOM or W. Sometimes some do get away w it , it sucks, but is life.


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## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> There are TOO many women out there to settle being cheated on.


THANK YOU!!! 

I've been saying this for 3.5 years now. 

It's like this is some kind of alien concept.....


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## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> Divorce is final and she didn't ask for anything. No child support, No spousal support, I keep everything as far as tangible property and my money in my bank accounts.


Stay vigilant friend. Child support is ALWAYS on the table. 

She can't legally waive rights to it even if she signs in blood.


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## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Divorce is final and she didn't ask for anything. No child support, No spousal support, I keep everything as far as tangible property and my money in my bank accounts. She was such in a hurry to file that she drafted all the paper work and paid the $435 filing fee. The Divorce petition favored me so much I didn't even respond or oppose which saved me the $435 fee of responding. I just let it proceed through the court until final.
> 
> When she moved out to be with POSOM she left me all household items including furniture. Since things didn't work out with POSOM and her most recent BF, she's out on her ass living with a friend and nothing but the clothes on her back and minimal money.
> 
> Things worked out for me but I don't shake the hands of parasites....I'd rather just laugh and live happily.


Seriously lost. Seriously broken woman. This isn't karma. This is deliberate self-destruction. I wonder why she hates herself so much that she cannot accept happiness in any form.


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## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Seriously lost. Seriously broken woman. This isn't karma. This is deliberate self-destruction. I wonder why she hates herself so much that she cannot accept happiness in any form.


It is as if they believe that they don't deserve it.


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## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> Stay vigilant friend. Child support is ALWAYS on the table.
> 
> She can't legally waive rights to it even if she signs in blood.


Oh I know, trust me. I am in law school and work for an attorney so I have 7 years to go before child support is off the table for good. Thankfully we only have 1 child together and even though we have 50/50 custody, he's with me more than he's with her and I pay for most of his needs so for the time being she really has no reason to ask for it. Plus I'd fight her hard on it and likely win.


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## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Seriously lost. Seriously broken woman. This isn't karma. This is deliberate self-destruction. I wonder why she hates herself so much that she cannot accept happiness in any form.


It's too boring for her. She doesn't want a husband that treats her well, a family under one roof, a happy marriage and normal family life. She wants drama that makes for an exciting, albeit destructive, life. She has always wanted something new, fresh....clothes, cars, purses, furniture, pets, it all gets old after a while. She lives for the "newness" of things. Horrible cycle to live by but that's her.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

SF-FAN said:


> It's too boring for her. She doesn't want a husband that treats her well, a family under one roof, a happy marriage and normal family life. She wants drama that makes for an exciting, albeit destructive, life. She has always wanted something new, fresh....clothes, cars, purses, furniture, pets, it all gets old after a while. She lives for the "newness" of things. Horrible cycle to live by but that's her.


“... there are two ways of being unhappy. Not getting what you want is one. Getting what you want is the other.”
― Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose


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## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> It's too boring for her. She doesn't want a husband that treats her well, a family under one roof, a happy marriage and normal family life. She wants drama that makes for an exciting, albeit destructive, life. She has always wanted something new, fresh....clothes, cars, purses, furniture, pets, it all gets old after a while. She lives for the "newness" of things. Horrible cycle to live by but that's her.


Wow...that's sad.


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## TDSC60

bandit.45 said:


> Wow...that's sad.


Sad - but all too common in today's instant gratification focused society.


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## BetrayedDad

TDSC60 said:


> bandit.45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...that's sad.
> 
> 
> 
> Sad - but all too common in today's instant gratification focused society.
Click to expand...

Pretty accurate portrayal of my ex's persona as well. Agreed, it's very common.

Broken people trying to fill voids in their lives with material things and penises.


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## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> Pretty accurate portrayal of my ex's persona as well. Agreed, it's very common.
> 
> Broken people trying to fill voids in their lives with material things and penises.


Hate to say it but add broken people's personalities with social media and it creates a ticking time bomb. Too many choices to settle down with just one person. Now anyone can reach out to anyone without having their phone #s. A man can send a message to any woman (married or not) and test her interest. If the woman is a prone to cheating or on the fence and has some interest in the guy, it's a done deal.

I know many more single/divorced people than have been married long term. I, myself, don't plan on marrying again. If/when I find someone I want to be in a relationship with, I may live with them but I don't plan on marrying. No reason really in my opinion.


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## JustTheFacts

I'm so happy for you. Read all of your posts. Didn't look good for you but you came out on top !


----------

