# *She has an Emotional Wall - Help!!!!!!



## Marcos

I live with my wife of 11 years but I been living together with her since I was 18 and she was 16, basically we had no single life. I’m now 30 and she is going to be 28, we have two boys a 3year old and a 6 year old. She has been a stay home mom for the past 6 years. So I lot of the problems had to do with her feeling like she has done nothing with her life. 

In April of 2009 she started to talk to me about maybe she does not love me like she used to, couples do things over the years that make that great love disappear, we are no different. So since then I started to feel very insecure because she was hinting not being together I felt horrible even suicidal at one point. In May of that same year a female co-worker and I started to have a friendship, she had a boyfriend and it was not going to be more then that, but I made the mistake of hiding and deny my friendship when my wife asked me if I had anything to do with this girl, so when she look in my phone log which she had never done, it was clear that I was talking to this girl…even if it was nothing, it basically helped her lose my trust. This was basically like the push she need it to leave me, even if I was not cheating….

I feel like even if this had not happen, something else would. She was headed this way. In her mind, she probably thinks I was ready to cheat on her with this girl. So finally in November of 2009 she broke up with me, December I continue to live together, trying to be the perfect guy, which it didn’t work. It only pushed her further, and it was mentally tortured for me to see her go out. Then I finally could not take it anymore and I moved to my parents house, which is only a few blocks from our house…..I did my share of text messaging terrorism as some people might call it, LOL, I did all of the “I love you” letters that you can think of, talked to her parents about how hurt I was, and how all I want is to make her happy, but his did not go well with my ex…….did all the drunk texting, all she felt as if I was trying to impose my love upon her. 

We continue to have sex with each other basically every week until now, except for a period march, for about 3 weeks and that’s because she met someone in January and I guess final started to sleep with him around this time. 

Then, she decided that she did miss her family, as far as us and the kids doing things together, she cut communication with this guy. 

She never asked me to come back to our house or that she wanted to be back together at this time, but she did see a possibility down the road (years) somehow one day we had a huge fight, it almost got physical and I told her so many bad things about her sleeping with somebody else, and how can she have done that even if we were not together. (we only had been sexually with each other, so it was hard on me when she did go elsewhere for that) By the way, sex between me an her is not a problem a all, we have so much chemistry in that department. 

That night we both felt emotional drained, we cried and end it up sleeping together at our house. Something felt so good about comforting each other, no sex involved…I mean I would have done it but I know she did not want that at the time, just wanted to feel comforted….. Somehow since then I have been staying home for the past two month, basically acting as if we are together when we are not and it’s been great, my boys have really been happy and her too but about a week ago, she talked to me and said she feels like she can’t play house with me anymore, she still feels the same as she did in November, she needs her space and she never asked to be back together….so now I feel like I’m back to square one…..I did go out and met some girls for a period of a month when she was messing with this guy, I could have actually had sex with somebody else but I didn’t want to, I feel like if there is a chance of us being back together then I don’t want to have any more obstacles then we already have. 

I know how much it has hurt to know about her being with that guy, I just didn’t want to go there myself. I don’t lack self-esteem or confidence as a matter of fact, there were a couple of females that wanted to sleep with me, but I won’t do it. I know exactly what I want out of life and I want my kids to have a real home with their mom and dad. I love her and as a women she is all I need, our sex life is great, I was with her sexually Saturday, and about 8 times last month, so she is everything I want, I just need to know how to get her back emotionally, physically is not the problem. We go out all the time, having fun together is not the problem earthier. 

She has said, “how can I know if I can miss you if you been there all this time”, this is my struggle, I live with her and how can I give her space? I take the kids away by myself sometimes and let her be alone because she needs it. Staying home with my boys is a lot of work, they are a handfull and never get tired. My nature is to give her everything, love, money and special treatment….I know this will not bring her back. Woman and men are more interested in what they can’t have. 

I’m the only one that works so that’s another issue, I can’t afford two places. One for her and the kids and one for me. We chose for her to stay home and raise our kids, and it has paid off, our kids are doing great in school. So how can I live at home, and see her live and act as a single women even if she when I’m in love with her and not feel jealous and also not go crazy mentally at the situation. People tell me that she is no longer my responsibility and that she needs to get a job, well there are not many jobs available at this time and I also don’t want my kids in daycare. So that’s my dilemma, how can I give her space and make her miss me when I live there? I don’t want to get over her, I want to do whatever it takes to have our relationship back, in many ways are relationship is better already, we communicate much better, we are more understanding of each other….all I’m missing is her commitment. 

She does not want to try anything, does not want to work at a relationship. We been best friedns for most of our lives, so even without the kids it's hard on her and me not to be in good terms, we need to. But she has told me that she feels good about having control of her emotions and that's why she keeps putting up her wall, to be safe. 

It hurt’s to see her putting up her emotional wall whenever she seems like she is feeling some desire to be connected again, she fights it. I know she wants to keep control of her feelings and I understand her why, I know what it feels like when someone has so much influence in your feeling, everything they do affects you; good and bad. So I get it, her just wanting to be “OK” but life is not about being ok is about living it to the FULLEST and for there to be love, we always have to give a little bit of our emotional feelings to the other person, now I see that giving all of your emotions to another person is not healthy, so I’m working on myself to learn how to manage my love and emotions. So I can keep my sanity but still get these beautiful feelings I feel for her, is so crazy that after 18 years of falling in love with her she still takes my breath away with a simple look. I don’t want to lose that but not sure how I can’t lose them if I keep hurting myself inside my accepting only what she decides to give me of herself.

Help!


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## greeneyeddolphin

The wall is probably because she isn't sure what's going to happen and she's trying to protect herself from getting hurt. I do the same thing to my boyfriend, when I get insecure and I feel like he's pulling back, or like things aren't so good between us, I'll put up that same kind of emotional wall. Logically, I know (and I'm sure your wife does, too) that it's not really going to hurt any less by doing so, but I still do it. The difference here is that my boyfriend can reassure me and show me that we'll be fine and I'll let down my guard, because for me, it's not about me deciding what's going to happen but about my insecurities from my past rearing their ugly heads for no good reason. She's trying to figure out if she still wants to be with you.

If I were to take a guess, I'd say she felt betrayed when she found out about this woman you were talking to. That was the start of that wall going up. Then, whether because she was genuinely curious about it or because you seemed to be and it made her curious, she began to wonder about being with other people. And so it seems what she's doing is trying to compare being with other people and being with you to see what's better. Problem is, you two are married. You can't just decide that you're going to try dating and see what happens. She needs to either commit to being with you or commit to being single again. 

And if she commits to being single, while I understand you don't want your kids in daycare, she needs to get a job. Whether you two work opposite shifts so the kids don't need to go to daycare or you find a friend or family member who will watch the kids, she'll need a job. You can't support her if you two aren't together. Not only will you not be able to afford it, but it just wouldn't be right. If she doesn't want to be with you, then she needs to step up and take responsibility for paying her own bills. You would pay child support, of course, but that is to help care for children, not pay each and every bill and expense she has. 

I know you can't afford your own place, but would your parents let you stay with them again? If so, I'd go there. Come visit your kids as you would if you two actually divorced and had a custody agreement. Don't stay the night, don't have sex with her, don't try to act like everything is all hunky dory. Come see the kids, spend time with them, focus on them, and pretty much ignore her. 

If that doesn't make her decide she wants you, and ask you to come home, then it might be time to face the fact that she's not going to commit to you again.


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## Marcos

atruckergirl:

Yeah, you make a lot of sense. In fact, sometimes I get tired of the situation and about to lose it and basicly tell her that she needs to get a job and move on. Either you want to be with me and have the type of family that we once thought we wanted or do what all divorce couples do, move on.

The problem is, when I was living with my parents I felt the worst I ever felt in my life. Eveytime I went to my house and I put my kids to sleep, the moment I walked out I felt so hurt inside "why do I have to leave my home, my boys and even her" I would think and ask God. I can go live with my parents again, but that's when I question myself "what do I want out of life?" See, the problem too is that we are really good to eachother and we are in the same page when it comes to parenting, we enjoy eachother's company...but now it's just the commitment missing from her, and when she trys to act single, ofcourse she feels the vibe coming from me is negative. Just feel lost in my situation, I been going to CODA meetings to help me with my codepandancy issue, I learned that I depend on her too much in the emotional department. 

Not sure what's going to happen, but I want to have my life/my girl back to how it was before.


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## turnera

She's no longer seeing the other guy?


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## Marcos

No she's not, not at all. She never cheated on me, if anything she has always been brutaly honest, she met him and did what she did on her on time while not together.....it hurt the same but she did not betray me even if it felt like she did, I thought our love was so special since we were eachothers first and only, but I guess it was not to her. 

The thing about this is that it's so hard to understand her. When we have such a great time when we are together, dancing, movies, cooking together, doing things with our kids...you name it. In bed we always been really good, at one point when we were having issues she said that she wish our overall relationship was as good as our sex life. Now, she has told me that I'm a way better person overall, before I was moody after work and it was affecting our relationship, then I realized I need it to leave my issues at work. She has not complaints or anything she would like me to improve or change. But living with the person you adore and they are running on hot and cold is so hard. I'm not here to tell people how good I am but I just go based on what I hear people say about me. I been working with the same company for 13 years, got my college degree about a year ago, I'm always reading and looking for ways to be a better parent and husband. I spoil her a lot with material things, give her flowers all the time and special little romantic stuff all year, not just on special occasions. What I find so stupid is some of the things she says.....she has told me that I'm too easy? as if she would want me to play hard to get?...sounds like a game but when feeling are involve....it's no game. As far as looks, I have no problem in the department. While officially separated and living with my parents, when I went out I always met woman that wanted to hang out, some wanted to get in bed but I was so heartbroken and really didn't want to go there with people I just met that I dind't sleep around. I don't know, I just need to find out what to do with my life. I find myself with no alternative, leaving my home again to go with my parents is not an option, I refuse to leave my boys again. It hurt so bad when I had to leave because she no longer wanted the relationship, she still dosent want it. I'm the only one that works, so her leaving is not an option....and even if people say "well, if she dosent want you then she needs to get a job and take care of herself" even if is probably what should happen, I cannot ask her to leave, I been in love with her since I was 13 and she means the world to me. With time I might lose some of the feelings I have for her, I don't see it happening but I can't think is possible to feel the way I do for too long.


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## turnera

One thing I see over and over again is when a wife gets 'too' spoiled, she stops respecting you. Human nature, I guess. At any rate, maybe it's time you sat down and re-discussed how your life is going, i.e., what you do versus what she does. For instance, if you give her money to go out and have fun while you're working, maybe you should stop. Your youngest is 3 now. If she wants extra spending money, let her go work at a day care for 10-15 hours a week to earn it. Stuff like that.


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## Marcos

That's probably true, I'm sure a lot of women would love to have a guy that would spoil them, but when you have it it almost seem to get boring. Other women that see how I treat her always say the same thing, she don't know what she has. The question is how long before I lose what I feel for her? See, I don't think that would ever change, I love her to death. 

That's what happens when you find the love of your life at the age of 13 and you’re connected on every level to that person and you fast-forward to now when I’m 31 years of age and come to the realization that the most beautiful, loving, the one that makes you feel weird in your stomach when she smiles……and the most important women in your life does not share the same feelings towards you? 

After ALL OF THIS TIME! After ALL IVE BEEN THROUGH! After ALL THATS BEEN SAID AND DONE!!! How???? How can I still LOVE her with all the passion that I have? How can I still WANT her??? How can I still, foolishly be hoping for her to LOVE ME AGAIN???

It was this that led me to my realization - I am ruled by my emotions. And no matter how much I hurt myself, everything that's been said and done, all that's taken place - the love and bond I had for her never went away, not even for a minute. It's still there. When I fell in love with her, 18 years ago - it was forever. I meant it. For better or worse! And it's been a lot of WORSE over the past year.

All of my knowledge, my logic, my common sense if I have any - none of it is stronger than the emotional attachment I have to her. I seriously want her to be happy, it’s just mind ****ing to make myself believe that her happiness is not with me after everything we been through, I want to set aside my own wants/needs, which I know is not the answer, I should put my needs first but that’s not me. I been there for her as a true friend, supporting her, tying to listen o her and understand her. Nothing else do or prove, she knows who I am and I can say I know I’m a good person, that’s for sure, I’m generous and like to help people that nobody can’t take away. 

She knows that there is nobody in this world that truly care’s for her as a person like I do. I know all the good inside of her. I just wish she loved me still and could see that we are good together. We always were, far from perfect…..but who is perfect as a couple? I know we can come close to because we have so much to love about each other, in my heart I believe we can be real soul mates again - even better after everything we've gone through. 

It hurt’s to see her putting up her emotional wall whenever she seems like she is feeling some desire to be connected again, she fights it. I know she wants to keep control of her feelings and I understand her why, I know what it feels like when someone has so much influence in your feeling, everything they do affects you; good and bad. So I get it, her just wanting to be “OK” but life is not about being ok is about living it to the FULLEST and for there to be love, we always have to give a little bit of our emotional feelings to the other person, now I see that giving all of your emotions to another person is not healthy, so I’m working on myself to learn how to manage my love and emotions. So I can keep my sanity but still get these beautiful feelings I feel for her, is so crazy that after 18 years of falling in love with her she still takes my breath away with a simple look. I don’t want to lose that but not sure how I can’t lose them if I keep hurting myself inside my accepting only what she decides to give me of herself. I don’t want that form another woman, I want my girl. If that’s not ever going to happen, them I will be ok, I don’t need another person in my life. 

After all the bull**** that has happen, you can still get something good out of it, I have come a long way, I feel like I’m even better now as a partner, friend, father, and lover. We've learned so much more about each other, we've grown a lot, we've stretched ourselves a lot and if we can make it through all of this - we'd be able to make it through anything, I just know it! I never thought we would be living together after that ugly fight, but we are here. We are living a nice life when she lets it be and stops protecting her feelings, for what I would never hurt her. But that's just me - that's what I see and what I feel and I can't make her feel what I do or want what I do.

And as much as I understand this, as much as some people will feel like they don't want to lose out on a chance to find love again, I don’t feel that way. I don’t want to feel love again, I am still in love and I rather keep my heart locked with her having the only key to it, that’s my choice. Outside of that; if is not the love of my life, I don’t want any of that, I don’t need no love in my life, I need her love but first I’m learning to love my higher been and myself. 

To find someone who will stay with me thick and thin - be just as in love and committed to me as I am to them, as much as don’t know how can I wait on her anymore because no matter what I 'think' - she's not made any attempt to say 'Hey, I love you, I want you and I'll do whatever it takes to be with you, I'll go to counseling, I'll do whatever!' That's what I need to hear before I let myself begin to even hope to have hope again for us. This is what I know in my mind and I'm not a stupid person. I'd never have thought in a million years I'd be in a situation like this! Not me. 

So this is it...this is my life. This is my dream and my nightmare. I have only myself to blame. Like I said, fair or not - I should leave for my own sanity and survival - but I can’t. I just don't have it in me. I chose not to leave my kids, my home. I will be strong and set my own boundaries, but my boys will get their massage so they can go to sleep, they will wake up and see their father. 

As for her? I can't walk away from love - love that I've always wanted to feel and have my whole life and found so early in my life. It's unbearable to lose and I guess I can't let go of it. 

I can't walk away as long as I keep thinking there's still a chance. But I can't afford to do this indefinitely but we will see how much my heart can take.

I wish life were so much simpler. This is the first time in my entire life I've been unable to control my emotions and do what I have to do for my own good. This is foreign to me and I am pissed at myself for being so weak. My stupid heart is getting the best of me, maybe if a miracle happened and we did end up together as husband and wife and lived our own little happily ever after it would have all been worth it.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Marcos,
You don't have yourself to blame. TWO people make a relationship. She has an equal hand in all of this.
Is it possible she is very resentful of you? What I mean is she has been with you for nearly all her life. She married young and also had children young. She has also been a stay at home Mom. Could it be that she almost sees her life "passing by her" which leaves her questioning is this it? 
Quick t/j here....I got pregnant with our first son when I was 21. We were in college and despite being a fantastic student, the pressure got to me and I dropped out. I couldn't take the stares and weird looks I got when I would walk around on campus with a huge stomach. It hurt. My (now) husband graduated however. I was there when he walked across the stage with his cap and gown and received his BA in Economics. I was proud of him but also very hurt. Fast forward 1 year and he was gone all the time because he was in graduate school. Between going to school and study groups I was abandoned with an infant. I got really resentful. Fast forward a few more years and we got in to a heated argument. He said "I have given up everything for you. Sacrificed for you". I exploded. I didn't feel he had given up a damn thing. He graduated, he got his MBA, he got the great job. I didn't. YEARS of resentment came out that night. Logically, we BOTH sacrificed for the betterment of our family but at that time it sure didn't feel like 50/50. Not even close.
So that's why I asked if she resents you. Does she feel stuck/trapped?


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## Marcos

Brennan: 

Yeah, there is a lot of resentment. I actually talk to her the other night, we had a really good and emotional conversation where I simply ask for the things that she resent me, and yeah all those thing you talked about came out. But we chose this life, our boys were planed. 

About 3 years ago before our little one was born she work at night Thursday – Sunday and our relationship was good, she need it that adult interaction and also making her own money, she even resent me for taking care of her. She hate’s to know that she is financially dependant on me and even emotional too, even if she only says that she loves me but not in love, she says she hates that when we are mad at each other she is not happy, she needs to be ok with me. 

I think you say it perfect, at one point I think she used the same words “she almost sees her life "passing by her" which leaves her questioning is this it? She felt like a loser for not doing anything with her life, but then I always thank her for what she does, she is a great mom and our boys are doing really good in school because she is there with them to help with homework instead of them being at a daycare. 

I also graduate from college and she feels it was cause of her staying with our kids, I thanked her for it, and I told her this is not just for me but to be able to provide my family with a better living style. But still she is resentful about our choices. Then again, I offer to now stay with the kids while she goes to school in the afternoon’s, she said yes but seem more interested in going out. I know she was proud of me but also hurt too.  

Wow, its funny how you felt (not funny but you know what I mean) because she felt abandoned with our boys too. Too make things worst, one day I got really drunk with a friend in our yard and she overheard me saying that I was not your typical guy, that I was a good catch, good looks, education and a great job, and most definitely a very sweet and romantic guy. I probably did say those things, but what I was trying to say is that I’m not a loser that nobody wants, but she took it to the heart and to this days I still hear how with all my money and stuff I still got dumped. 

I think we both feel stuck and trapped, but for different reasons. Sometimes I feel like telling her to go, and leave me with my boys. Because I’m here for them and her, so is not fair for me to leave my kids, and if my love is so not wanted then leave. But that’s just my frustration speaking, I won’t tell her this. (That would never happen, she won’t leave without them) and I’m not willing to live in a home without my kids, I’m doing what I supposed to do as a father, I’m only 31 so is not like I can’t go out find another female, but that’s not the point, I want my girl, the mother of my kids. My best friend.


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## greeneyeddolphin

Let me suggest this to you...offer to let her go back to work. I know..you don't want your kids in daycare. Listen, I don't want mine there either. But as a mother...I need time without my kids, to talk to other adults and just be away from them. I love them dearly, I'd take a bullet and never even think about it. But, I need some time away to be a better mommy. And maybe she needs that too, but feels she can't express that to you because you've made it so clear to her that you don't want your kids in daycare. And so that, added to other feelings she may be having, is all adding up into this resentment that is making her kind of wishy-washy. 

So, offer to let her go back to work. If she says that that is what she wants, see what can be worked out. Maybe she can work the opposite shift from you so you can be there with the kids while she's at work. Maybe you have a close friend or family member that will watch the kids for you. Or maybe you grit your teeth and find a good daycare in your area. Consider a home daycare. When my kids had to go to daycare, they went to a home one and she was absolutely wonderful with them. When you weigh the consequences of both sides, it might be better for everyone if the kids spent a few hours in daycare each day...if it makes for a happier mommy, which makes for a happier daddy, and that makes for happier kiddies. Think about it. 

If that's NOT what she wants, maybe it's time to suggest some counseling. Possibly for her alone and for both of you as a couple. A counselor might be able to help draw her out and help her identify and sort out her feelings, so that you two can get past this push and pull thing and get to a point where you are either working things out and getting back to a good place, or where you can admit that it's not going to work, and start planning for how to end it all. 

Regardless of what you do, just remember that feelings are not logical, they are not simple. You can't just turn them off and on at will. Don't feel bad about that. But don't let her take advantage of the fact that you love her so much either.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Marcos,
She sounds very confused. I understand her pain, I really do. Been there, done that.
I think she really measures herself by "recognition". There is nothing wrong with that but I think in her case she wants to be valued as something more than "Mom" but right now she is acting out (badly) and trying to find who she is. Grrrrrr.
I will tell you from personal experience that when my husband used to tell me that I had "the most important job in the world" raising our then first young son, it didn't mean a damn to me. Women have children every day, every minute, every second and raise them. Being a Mom isn't a badge of honor. It is just what women do. Or so I thought. Meanwhile he was getting his MBA.
What turned my attitude around? Counseling. I had a lifetime of "failure" speak in my head. I couldn't see past my childhood and felt like a victim. Worse, it was my Husband who made me this way, right? No it wasn't. If I felt good about myself and had esteem, wild horses couldn't have prevented me from graduating the same day my husband did. We would have walked across the stage together. 
Frankly, I made a choice. I had options. 
You and your wife really need counseling. I truly think she cannot see anything good right now. She probably feels like a failure...as I did. She needs to see that what she does is the most important thing in the world! Anybody can get a job.... bringing up healthy, happy, well adjusted children is a gift. Only a few women have this.


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## turnera

I agree. Sit down and discuss how she can go back to work and/or school. Make a plan. So she can see that she WILL have a life of her own, not just a mother and wife. She NEEDS that, and if you are the person who makes it happen, so much the better. Kids aren't around forever.


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## Marcos

Thank you all for your thoughts, we had a conversation and it basically sounded as if it was not for the financial part, that she would be living on her own with my boys. So at this point, I don't think there is anything I can do, I try to be this perfect man, that only pushes people back, I write to her and explain how we are even better now then before, our communication is great and due the couple of months I lived at my parents I am a better person, we respect each other more, and I talk to her but love is not something in her life right now. 

I suggested that we should seek spiritual guidance and counseling, she said she didn’t want to hurt my feelings but she said at this time in her life, there is no ‘us”. So in a situation when two people are seeking help, it would be perfect and a receipt for success but in our case I’m alone in this love thing. She loves me but not “in love with me”…..sounds like a stupid thing they say in movies. So I been full of energy and hope, I’m the type of person that never quits on anything and always does what it takes to achieve it, but on this I might just be done too. 

This morning I woke up with no desire to go to work or even wake up, is so hard to live with the person you love so much and feel like just two friends. I’m losing or maybe lost all hope and the desire to fight for her. She said that one of her fears is to one day when her heart finally opens up, that I won’t be there or somebody else to come in. For sure, we both know that no matter what happens, the love we had would never be replaced or duplicated, but for sure she will wish she had done something about it. 

Now I’m becoming resentful of her, she agree that during our separation she did miss me and our family, we decided to move in together again this June, sold our old house and move to a near by city to a new condo where my kids have a pool to swim, there is a GYM and the schools are better, I made it clear that I was not going to move in if it was only for the kids, that at the end of the day, it was for us because if we are good and happy as a couple that will automatically be good for our boys. That after are boys are grown up, we will be there to grow old together, she said that she did want to do this for us, but only need it time to come around as far as her emotional wall, I said I would wait the rest of my life if need it as long as we are both taking the steps forward as a couple, it was great for the first month then she began to pull back again and we are now back to her wanting nothing to do with me as a couple. My love is so strong, but this disappointment will kill it with time. I have been getting help on my own, going to CODA meeting to deal with my co-dependency towards her, and is helping, I’m sad but I can function and live my life for me and my kids. During our break up I had even stupid thoughts of ending my pain, but I’m stronger now. 

She needs help, she had a bad childhood and some of these emotional issues come from that, but nobody can make anybody get help, it needs to come from within.


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## turnera

Have you done the Love Buster questionnaire yet?


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## Marcos

I think I printed the questionare but I will take a look at it right now, the only thing is that the subject of me and her if off at least for now. It get's old talking about the same thing to her and see no reaction. I will do anything that is on me to do, but I can't make her do anything or read things. Let me look at it.


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## turnera

It is for her to fill out, to tell YOU what you do that makes her unhappy. Tell her you just want to learn more about what you did wrong. Once you _know_, you can stop doing those things.


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## Marcos

I see, I printed it and I will give it to her when the time is right. I know her too well and right now is like there is a white elephant in the house. I will probably give it to her this weekend after dinner and glass of wine, sometimes having some wine relaxes her and you get the real feeling. I really appreciate all the input from everybody.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Good luck to you Marcos. You sound like a really decent guy. 
I have a question for you though...can you look back and perhaps try to see where her attitude towards you changed? Could you pinpoint it to a specific thing? If you can, this might help both you and her. 
For me it was his sense of entitlement. He graduated from college and within one week announced that he was going to apply to graduate school. He didn't consult with me on this next step, didn't ask for my opinion. He just stated that he was hoping he "would get in". When I asked him how we would support ourselves he said and I quote "I will take out a student loan to not only pay for the school but also our cost of living expenses. You also have money that your Grandfather left you. You could use that too". Wow. Talk about entitlement. So he was ready to sign us up for a hefty student loan that would take years to pay off and dip in to the money left to me by MY Grandfather without so much as consulting with me beforehand. In counseling, I figured out this was my pinpoint. The point at which my resentment brewed. From that, it just grew stronger and stronger until that one night when I exploded. From that I was also able to discover alot about myself. I could have said no. I could have said you aren't going to touch my money and you aren't going to sign me up for a student loan that will be in my name as well. So again, I had options....I just didn't take them/voice them but instead blamed him. Victim speak.
If you can get her to pinpoint her "moment" you could really be on a clearer path.


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## Marcos

Thanks Brenna, you sound a lot like my ex, well my current, whatever she thinks she is to me, best friends....

Big part of it was like you, my my sense of entitlement, she said I acted like a ****y bastard, too good. I bought a house for us, but basicly did it on my own, almost like "here, I got us a house", I always took care of all the finances.....so yeah she resents all of that. But overall, that is a big one, aside form me feeling lonely and talking to my co-worker, that did some damage too, even is she was already trying to end our relationship.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Marcos,
I think she felt like her opinions didn't matter. You became the hero in the family. There's nothing wrong with that in a sense that in your mind you wanted to provide for everybody. In her mind though, it seemed like it was at her expense. 
I think if you could get her to do what Turnera suggested, the Love Busters part, it could really help the two of you. 
As for the communication with the co-worker, that didn't do "some" damage. That did ALOT of damage. It wasn't physical but in her mind you cheated in that you stepped outside your marriage for things you weren't getting at home. It is actually called an Emotional Affair. I know "affair" sounds awful but lets look at the truth here. You denyed it and lied about it. An affair isn't so much about sex (in fact rarely) but more about how the other person makes you feel, listens to you and gives you something you are missing. In your case, a person to "get" you, listen to you and understand you. You broke her trust. She got suspicious and found out the truth for herself. She might have been unhappy in the marriage but I promise you this was the nail that pierced her heart. In HER mind she was already feeling marginalized by you, "just" a Mother, not respected by you. Again in HER mind. That might not have been your truth, but it sure was hers. 
Nobody is "done" in a relationship until the divorce is finalized. She might have emotionally checked out but she can check back in at any time. And you have to assure her that it is "safe" to do so. The only way that wall will come down around her heart is if it is chipped away slowly and patiently.


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## Marcos

Brenna, 

I’m sorry, let me clarify….since this is Talkaboutmarriage, I call her my wife but we are not legally marry, I mean…live together since I was 19 and gave her an engagement ring, but for some reason of the other we never made it official, not sure it makes any difference, we live together, share the same values and goal when it comes to our kids but anything with Love in it, she turns down. So I won’t ask her to fill it out, at least until I find the right moment. She seem at times like she is coming around and then all of a sudden I get to exited and I talk about wedding and I think I scare her away. Is stupid that commitment to me is kind of a turn off, or at least she acts like is something bad, she said she does misses the love we had but if we are ever back to the level one day we shared, she wants to be in it because is her want, not my parent, her mom or even my want. I’m the worst person when it comes down to patience, so I’m being tested. I’m a lot better at it, the old me would have taken off and made things worst. Now, I’m learning to accept the things I cannot change. 

But today, today I feel like I need to do something about my situation, I got this nasty feeling inside, like I can’t breathe. Living with her when she is not committed to our relationships is making me feel horrible inside, insecurity, jealous, loneliness, anger among every other feeling you can think of. The worst is that I cannot let her know I’m feeling like this, so I hide it. I talked to her before about when I felt like this but then she feels like I’m another kid that needs something from her……so I’m done with telling her my feelings, she didn’t care before and does not care now. But there are really no options here, financially I’m the only one that works and I cannot afford two homes. I already lived with my parents and it was horrible to live in another house other then the one my boys live in. I just feel helpless and I cant control my emotions, so hard to live with the person you love them most and they are just cold and make you feel like you don’t exist as a Men. Also, is she gets a job and moves, why does she gets to take my boys? I’m 100% dedicated to her and them, she is the one that has issues, why can they live with me and she can go do whatever she wants. I know she would never agree to the boys staying with me, and I would not fight her over that. I just thing is not fair. I’m going for some food and drinks with friends tonight, need a mental break. I asked her to come and she made excuses. Before I will just go home, now she does not want to come, I’m going anyways. She told me go and have fun, so I will. 

She knows that she can come in my heart anytime. All she needs to do is make it happen.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Marcos,
I updated my original post. I wanted to dance around the fact that you sought help from another woman but could not. So I edited my response. 
I will read yours now.


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## Marcos

Yeah, I take my share of the blame. I know I lie and broke her trust, years ago she had an emotional affair to, so I do understand the feeling. It took me years to move on, but I eventually did. I didn't have to leave her to teach her a lesson. 

Bottom line, I cannot change the past. So I been trying to work on me so our future is better, just fustrating when she shows no effort towards us.....but don't get me wrong, I broke her heart too and I so sorry. I told her already, with tears. It's crazy how mush your heart actually physicly hurts when you are heart broken.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Marcos,
It doesn't matter if you are married. You have been together for 11 years and have children together. Not sure where you live but in the States, that is considered a "common law" marriage. After 7 years together you have the same rights as a traditionally married couple.
After reading this last post I am wondering what is going on with her? What I mean is, I had resentment towards my husband for his prior actions but nothing so extreme that I just didn't give a crap about our relationship anymore. Is it possible she is having an affair? Her behavior seems a bit extreme (from this last post). What I mean is that in your earliest post you mentioned her hurt at you seeking out another woman (plutonic). Now she just says go out and have fun? That seems off to me.


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## Marcos

This is a letter I gave her about 2 weeks ago, she always tells me that no matter what happens, she knows we will be together at the end of our lives.

"Hi LOVE, 

I wanted to write to you a couple of lines and tell you that I know what I was looking for all my life , and you know that all I wanted and found is a family with you. We have that and it’s more then I could have dreamed of. 

You know, up to today….sometimes I would think twice about expressing my love for you, but screw that. I am a very romantic guy and you are the only person who deserves this type of guy. So I hope you don't mind my CHEESE BALL personality. 

Sometimes you make me smile, and sometimes you make me cry. You learn to like someone when you find out what makes them laugh, but you can never truly love someone until you find out what makes them cry. 

How lucky am I to have someone who was so hard to say goodbye to? Sometimes we have to let go, just to be sure that there is something there worth holding on to. Well, I cannot and will never let you go, because without letting you go in my heart, I always known you’re worth it. 

There have been many times that my mind told me to give up, but my heart never let me. So all I can say is that I want you to grow old with me? The best is yet to come."

She responded with a real smile, but not much, so i'm done pouring out my heart to her. She knows how much I love her. I hope she wants this again, otherwise it would be sad but I will move on for my own health.


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## Bigsigh

Are you into reading?? Try the book "how to improve your marriage without talking about it". Great, great book!


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## Therealbrighteyes

Marcos,
That was a WONDERFUL letter you wrote her. Just amazing. Let me ask you though, what have you done with ACTIONS that make her understand that. 
A man can hear "I love you" and really feel it. A woman can her "I love you" and yet the actions don't back up the words. 
Case in point: when we had our first child and were newly married he was out alot. I mentioned him graduating and going to get his MBA. He was gone all the time with study groups and such. I got resentful. Later he got his great job and was out with co-workers that was work people only. I got more resentful. Fast forward a few more years and he joined the company football team, the softball team and sadly the Dungeons and Dragons team (software nerds). He always had "reasons" as to why WE couldn't go out. "Sorry I have to do this, gotta do that", etc. etc. Yet he had PLENTY of time to do all his other activities. At that time we had been married for 9 years. 9 years and two boys later. In those 9 years he couldn't find the time to take me out on a proper date (without kids). Literally no dinners out or just go to a bar and hang out. Nothing. In 9 years. 
So when he would call me during the day and say "I love you" or when he would write me a poem telling me how much I meant to him it really didn't mean much to me. His actions didn't back up his words.
Fast forward to now. This October will be 17 years of marriage. We finally "got" each other. See to him words meant everything, to me action meant everything. Different strokes I guess but it took years of crap to get to that point.


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## Marcos

Bigsigh:
Yeah, I do enjoy reading and because of my issues at home I been seeking anything that might help me personally and our relationship. I will check it out, at the moment I think I’m overloaded I have too many books but that will be my next book. Thanks. 

Brennan:
It's true words can only go so far, but in my case she said it herlself that during the inital days of the breakup she would hear me talk but didn't mean much to her, it was the actions that she seen that made her realize how much I love her. I din't change a lot from how I was, I give her flower all the time not just on special occasions, breakfast in bed because she deserved it, she is an awesome mom and I give her massages, she is on her feet all day with my boys so I do make it a point to tell her and do things for her. I'm starting to realize that the whole problem is not what I do or what I don't do or say; this feeling of wanting to be alone emotionally and not wanting the pressure and commitment of a relationship; is in her. I cannot changed that, so I will continue to seek help for me, and I hope that she comes around. How long I can live like this? Not sure, one day at a time.


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## AFEH

Marcos it’s called love Mate. Love that’s what you are in. Your woman doesn’t know that. I have no advice for you, none at all and I’m sorry I can’t help you.

Bob


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## Therealbrighteyes

Marcos,
I want to repeat that I really think you are an awesome guy. I get a true sense that you are really working to try and fix your marriage. The problem is you aren't getting much back from her.
Is she willing to tell you what she needs? Would she be willing to fill out the questions that Turnera mentioned? 
Let's face some facts here: she feels trapped and probably married too young and had babies very young as well. Having said that, she is a SAHM and you are the sole financial provider for the family. You two have two young children. I don't think she is being reasonable in her thinking of just leaving, being done. Is it perhaps more like a veiled threat to try and get you to shape up? Does she understand that if she proceeds with divorce she will have to get a job, put the children in daycare (the older child in after school care) and pay a hefty amount for said care? You will be required to pay child support but that will not allow her to continue to be a stay at home Mom. Does she really want this kind of uphevel in her life? I don't know. It doesn't sound like she is thinking very clearly however. I am not suggesting in any way she becomes a martyr for her children. In the long run though, perhaps her working on the marriage would be the best thing for your family. Remind her of this. You fell in love once. She fell out of love. She can fall back in love as soon as her heart and your actions allow her. She needs to be faced with the hard truth. So she wants to be free, single, whatever. She will regret that. Great quote I once read: "the grass isn't greener on the other side....it's Astro Turf". I hope she comes to recognize this before it's too late.


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## turnera

Are you absolutely sure she doesn't want to be married?


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## Marcos

Turnera: She does not want to be married, trust me. She said she is not willing to put in the work to make it happen, not now and she does not know if she will ever want this again.

This past weekend we got into an argument for the first time in a while and she expressed how I’m so easy for her to hate, I was puzzled and asked her what’s to hate? Me, dedicating 100% of my life towards her and my boys? 

It seems as she has anger at me because I love her so much and won’t be ok with her if she finds another man. She didn’t say that but it’s what it feels like, she said if I find somebody else, she won’t have a problem with. She had said also that she would not care if I did find another women, even if we all know is not true because for a few weeks I was going out with other people she seem to be mad about it when she trys to ask me what I did with them. 

The whole situation is f-up, her best friend and even her mom had try to make her see that this behavior is not only bad for her but also for the kids, I guess they do seem to think that I a good father and husband for her but it’s almost as if she pulls away even further when she hears the people that are close to her telling her what she should do even if it is the right thing. 

Today I just feel hopeless and in my situation, there are no real options. Like I said, I will not leave my home again and leave my kids. I want my family back to how it was. If she is that want that no longer wants this then she should leave, but that won’t happen, she will never leave our kids and financially is not an option. Just hard to see her everyday, put up a smile like everything is ok just so I can have a decent time with her. Talking about the subject is pointless, counseling she won’t go. Self improvement is the only thing I can do but even that it seems pointless. It seems like there is no help or hope that anything will change. Is all up to her and what she wants and feels.


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## turnera

IMO, she's been cheating on you for quite a while, and she is now using the excuse of YOUR issues to make you go away so she can continue it. If I were you, I would do some investigating. Even if it just started this year, she is cheating because you are married. Have you read TanelornPete's recommended steps to ending an affair?


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## Marcos

I'm not in denial, but she is not cheating. She did see somebody while we were apart but I knew about it and she has always been upfront with me. I'm with her like 24/7 and trust me I would now if there was somebody else. It's seems worst because if there was actually somebody else, I would have the strenght to move on with my life but she is not.


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## turnera

Does she text? Does she use her computer?


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## Marcos

She does text, no computer but her phone has everything includinge acces to the internet. I have acces to all of that, not sure what the conversations are about all the time but her only issue with me is that I lie before about talking to a co-worker so it's almost like she is the type of person that takes so much pride in not being a lier that she would rather be brutally honest and hurtfull rather then lie, so I will bring it up.

That's why when she was seeing someone and I question her even if we were not togethere, she told me everything. 

I know, is confusing to try to know what's on her mind or what she wants....I live with her for the past 11 years and been in her life for 18 years.....but I don't even know what is going on with her. She is a great mom and dedicates all her time to my boys, so thre is not very much time for anything else, but when there is a time, like on the weekends, she sure wants to party and does without me.


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## turnera

Marcos said:


> but I don't even know what is going on with her.


 Marcos, this is exactly what every betrayed husband says. He KNOWS his wife would never lie to him. He just knows her too well. 

Until he finds out that her cheating addiction, her need to get her next fix (probably through her phone) outweighs what she once believed in.

I'd be rich if I got a nickel for every husband who's come here and said 'not MY wife!'

I thought you said you're together 24/7. Now you're saying she goes out and parties? Which is it?


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## Marcos

Well, I gues not 24/7, she finds at least one day in the weekend to go out with out me. Most of the time is with my sister or mutual friends and I know exactly where she is at, we have converstaions about what she did and I think is easy to see when one is lying. 

I just don't know what else to do. All I want is for our family to be that and not become another broken home but at this rate not sure how long I can live like this and the alternative of being aways from my kids is not any better. I met other girls when we broke up, I was attracted to some and they wanted to get involve with me but I just don't have any desire to do that, I honestly love her so much and just want a simple life, I take care of her and my boys and she for the most part takes care of me, just missing the commitment towards me.


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## turnera

What you do is recognize what you need in a marriage, calmly state that, and move on if she is unwilling.

However, if she is in an affair, that all changes, because she's inhabited by an alien, and it's your job as her husband to fight the affair to get your wife back. THAT shows self-respect.


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## Marcos

Breeze/turnera:
Thanks for taking the time to help me with my issue; I will check out the link. Today I actually feel good, yesterday was a really bad day at work. It seems that when one part of your life is going bad the other parts follow. I usually send her an e-mail from work just to se how she is doing at home with the boys, but yesterday I was really busy and I also wanted to see if she would bother even getting in contact with me. She didn’t, so I send her a message before I left work and she said, “I was wondering why you didn’t call, you always do, so I figure you were having a hard day at work so I didn’t call” I told her that when I hear from her and the kids it actually helps, I know that my efforts are not unnoticed. 

So last night when the kids went to sleep, she told me to go to the living room so we can watch a movie, I was a bit down and she told me to hug her and ask me what was wrong, it was kind of emotional, I told her the issues I’m having at work, been here 13 years and it seem as things might just end, might look for another job. She asked if that was it? (she can read me really easy, I hate that  

It was hard to say it, but then I said NO, there is more…… I miss US, what we used to be, she said she misses it too, but that due to losing trust and all the bad things that happen when we broke up, she is drained and at this moment she feel ok emotional and does not want to work at anything, she just wants to enjoy our boys and me but she is just disconnected, she loves me and even if as a couple we would never be back to the same level, she said we will forever be a huge part of each others life’s. 

While having the conversation, I noticed that most of my insecurities and jealousy is within me, I create things on my mind. She told me that if she was not willing to open up and bring her wall down for me, the father of her kids and the love of he life, why would she do that with anybody else now? Even when she met someone, it was just something momentary and never would anything have come out of that situation. I do understand her wanting to be emotionally disconnected, I sometimes feel that way because being so in Love it drains you mentally and physically. But time will tell……

She said she does not take joy in seeing me sad about us, so she would never be that big of a [email protected][email protected] and do things to make me feel worst like trying to go around me and see other guys other then friends. To her credit, she never lied to me, she broke up with me and them as a single mom, did what she wanted to do. 

It seems that she feels that being completely committed to me in our relationship means being controlled and not allow her to have a life outside me, I told her that is not the case. But right now, I think I need to just let it be and try to enjoy what we do have, seen some of the issues that other people have here, is making me realize that is not that bad, we live together as a family, we enjoy each other’s company, sex life is there…maybe not as much as I would want but even when things were good, she always been the one with a low sex drive. We make each other laugh all the time, so I think I need to enjoy the good times and stop pushing so hard to have something so bad. If those negative moment stop, she might open up again.

She told me that when she was seeing someone, while broken up and I was telling her how much I loved her, she didn’t believe me or respected me because at the same time I was seeing people too, she said she never told me I love you then went out to hang out with that guy, on the other hand I did that, I will come home to her and tell her all this things, then go out. 

This time around, living together she see’s with my actions how I truly still love her, she see’s me doing things to better myself, reading books, going to CODA meetings, so she respects that and my feelings and for that she is not doing nothing that would hurt me more, just not here at the same level as I am. I think I should let time be our help.


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## turnera

Sounds good. You're learning about yourself. Counseling can't hurt, either.

And get the book 52 Invitations for Grrreat Sex.


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## Marcos

She would not go to counseling now, when the time is right we will definetly go.


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## turnera

I meant for you.


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## Marcos

Therapy or couples counseling by myself? I did go to therapy but it was for me and how to deal with our break up, now is a different situation. So there is counseling for couples where only one person attends?


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## turnera

I meant for you to work on your willingness to stand up for yourself, command respect, be firm.


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## Therealbrighteyes

I agree with Turnera. Counseling for you could be great. It sounds like your wife feels if she tears down the wall around her she will be perceived as a doormat. On the other hand, you allowing her to continue with her behavior of doing whatever she wants makes you a doormat. 
I think if you went to counseling your wife would see some noticeable changes in you. That might also prompt her to be willing to go to counseling, either couples or by herself. 
Counseling isn't the end all be all but in your situation having a wife so unwilling to work on the marriage it sounds like you need to look within. Counseling (or some great therapy books) could really be beneficial to you.


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## Marcos

It sounds good, thank you both. I have some books right now so I think the therapy is next.


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