# I want my own life



## stuckandscared (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has been/going through what I am, and if so, if they could pass on any advice/opinions...I'll give a really brief synopsis:

I met my husband 11 years ago, dated a year, engaged for 3 years, and married for 7 1/2 years.

When I met my husband, he was cocky, judgmental of others and such an egotist...I knew this, told him I hated it....but he was NEVER like this with me....he was always caring and complimentary of me....and with time, his attitude and "holier than thou" attitude improved greatly. 
We have always been very close and VERY happy...I always told everyone "we have the best marriage....I feel bad for others that don't have such a great marriage"...."I don't know any other couple that is this happy", etc., etc.
Since we've been married I have ALWAYS told him how I need more help from him and that I can't do everything all on my own...I do all of the cooking, cleaning, pay all of the bills, car upkeep (incl. wash and waxing), take care of the animals....occ'ly he will do laundry (although doesn't fold/hang/put away...washes and lies flat or throws in a hamper)....well, he has never stepped up to plate to help despite years of talk....we talk on a fri. pm and sat. he watches me clean house for 6 hours w/o offering to help....throughout the marriage we have both either been in school or working full-time (or, like when I was in grad school, working and going to school full-time)...so, it isn't like I have had any more free time than him...in fact, usually much less time than he does....In addition, I can never just go have dinner, shopping, movie, etc. with a friend...NEVER...he always either assumes he should be invited or just tags along. In 11 years, I can count on two hands the number of times that I was able to go out with friends without him....I feel like I am in prison...

Over the past 11 months, my feelings have really changed...he quit telling me I look nice, complimenting me (other than meals and how well I cleaned the house)...then in march I went out of town for a school thing for 3 days...it was the 1st time in 11 years that I felt totally free...I wasn't told what time to quit working out, be ready for dinner by, to "use my inside voice", not to have another glass of wine, etc. It was GREAT...I haven't felt so free and grown up in years. I remembered what it was like to be happy and independent again. I have always been very independent and I have had that taken away from me...My fault, I know. He is so controlling of where I am at every minute.

Hind site is 20-20 and while there has always been things that have bothered me and upset me, I sucked it up and dealt with it...

Another big thing for me is loving your family....and other than ME, my husband truly doesn't care that much about anyone else! I have a problem with that...I used to think that "as long as he loves me...", but frankly, being a really happy person by nature and loving to help others, that just isn't good enough....

Anyway, I want out but I am THE only person he cares about (he's actually told me that)...I don't want to hurt him and he kind of knows there are problems but he is chalking it up to me being depressed or busy with school...I am trying to build up the courage to tell him....I am seeing a counselor and I want to get him in too b/c I want him to have support....ugh...I could keep going...I would love to get some opinions....Am I a horrible person, how do you hurt someone you used to love and someone that is so dependent on you for their happiness. And in the meantime, how do I keep avoid being intimate with him....I feel nothing but sadness and disgust when he touches me now...I'm so sad and frustrated!!!

Opinions? Thanks everyone!!!


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

oh, god, give him a laundry list (no pun intended) telling him these things are really getting in the way of me being happy. ask him, "you want me to be happy, right." i didn't listen about a year and a half ago, now, after a near death experience, i'm faced with losing it all because i didn't hear my wife. please give him the chance to process the info, ok. you won't be sorry, because if he reacts the way i did, you'll be given the freedom and feel the independence, and YOU WILL BE HAPPY. just don't blow up the marriage because you didn't make the effort to let him know, please.

my signature says it all...


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Getting counsel for your self is great. Keep that up as the counselor is a trained professional who can really help. Upon reading your thread I see your husband as a very selfish, insecure, control freak. You are not at fault. You are not a “horrible person” just someone who has recognized a bad situation and are trying to make it better.

Selfish: he doesn’t help around the house. Just sits back and lets you do the work

Insecure: He is fearful of letting you go out alone. He doesn’t want you to grow as a person.

Control Freak: Just that you in your mind feel you must do as he requires says it all.

Ask the counselor for help in the situation. With help and time you can both move to a happier marriage. At this time it sounds one sided. You can recover your feelings for your husband. People do fall back in love but it may take time and patience. He won’t change overnight.


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## blind (Jan 17, 2008)

I must second what voivod and Amp have said. Like your husband, I too didn't meet my wife's needs and am now facing divorce. Once I understood how my wife was feeling I've made great changes to meet her needs. But it seems to be too little, too late. Please don't wait that long to let him know the problems. I know you feel like you've already tried to tell him in the past. For whatever reason, us guys have a hard time understanding the gravity of the situation. You and he need to have a heart to heart. He needs to come away with the clear understanding that the realtionship is in trouble and what he can do to make you happy. If he is willing to put forth the effort, you'll both be happy. Don't let an 11 year realtionship die before it has a chance to be saved.

You've now heard from 3 guys who have made the mistake of not understanding and meeting their wives' needs. Take it from us, once he understands precisely how you feel and that the problems are serious, his eyes will be opened and changes will follow.

I think I can speak for Amp and voivod when I say that we aren't condoning your husband's behavior. I regret everyday the way I approached my marriage. But, please try to forgive him and give him an opportunity to right the ship. I think you will be glad you did.

My very best to you. Take care.

Blind


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## stuckandscared (Sep 4, 2008)

Dear voivod and amplexor,

Thank you so much for the comments/opinions. I have given my husband a list of things I need help with...he agreed to help more...He also has had me max out student loans so he can buy $2000 speakers, bikes, etc. (which is another problem I talked with him about) and helping around the house lasted for about 2 weeks....and now he is hinting around about buying new bike stuff....oh, the other thing is that he always said we would follow whichever career was more reliable, which will probably be mine, but now he is wanting me to put things on hold for him for the 3rd time in 7 years....so, I have to say that after months of working on things, he hasn't shown any signs of change and that is even knowing how depressed I am....any thoughts there? 

I used to think I could regain my feelings, but I would stake my life on it that I am just done...I want him happy and given the spoiled way he was brought up, his continued lack of compassion/empathy for others, several other big ticket concerns, and the way I have catered to him....I truly don't think he has the capacity to change....it is very sad...I am so very sad for him...the only way I think he will be happy is if I suck it up and continue to put my wants/needs/dreams on the back-burner....

I would love additional thoughts, and again, thank you for your comments....I just feel like such a terrible person....I never thought someone could fall out of love with someone, but I guess it happens...I just never saw it happening to me!


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## stuckandscared (Sep 4, 2008)

Dear Blind,
Thank you too for the comments! It is really nice having some male opinions. 

He at some point (although he seems oblivious-or in denial-now) because when we had a big heart to heart a few months ago, I told him I still loved him, but I needed some changes to occur. He even said, "this is more serious than I thought" and he brought up the word divorce....but now he is back to the same unhelpful guy...he does occasionally tell me I look nice now....but he also gives me grief when I am stuck in clinics late and REALLY gripes (to my family too) when I go to the gym. 

I am soooo very sorry that your wife didn't tell you sooner....but I think it is great that you made the effort to change and I hope that you take comfort (as much as possible) in that....

I welcome any additional thoughts and I am so thankful for everyone's comments.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

stuckandscared said:


> I am so very sad for him...the only way I think he will be happy is if I suck it up and continue to put my wants/needs/dreams on the back-burner....


i think maybe this is where you are getting caught in a rut. I think you feel responsible for his happiness. That is why you feel caged. You dont feel like you can be who you want to be and also be with him.

I did this to my H when we were first married. Whenever he wanted to go out with his friends or do something without me, i gave him a MAJOR guilt trip. I mean, sometimes i would seriously freak out. It was really hard on him and he did start feeling trapped and resentful towards me. He stopped doing what he loved and became miserable. 

I think you outta try doing a boundaries workbook together, or even on your own. It might be better to do it on your own right now since you are so upset. That is what i did. If you work on your boundaries you'll learn you can still do things that make you happy even if it upsets him. My H is back to doing the things he loves. Ya, i threw some fits in the beginning, had some self-loathing episodes (the whole he doesnt love me), but now, two years later, i realize how ridiculous i was being.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

stuckand scared,

you say:
>>>he always said we would follow whichever career was more reliable, which will probably be mine, but now he is wanting me to put things on hold for him for the 3rd time in 7 years....so, I have to say that after months of working on things, he hasn't shown any signs of change and that is even knowing how depressed I am....any thoughts there?<<<

i don't think he really thought he'd ever have to make that decision. now, force him. something like, "i got a job offer that may force us to (move, do whatever) and you tell him that you'd have to strongly consider that. use his answer as a gauge.

also, you make the same mistake about love. you think you're IN it. reality is with love, i think, you DO it. so does he. both partners. explain that love is all about these thing you need fron him. use us for examples. "honey, i've been talking to some friends and they think that you're missing the point here. they told me that they were doing a lot of the same things you are doing now, and their marriages are in serious trouble. they don't want it to be like that. i know guys don't really understand this part of females' needs. but i'm trying to help you understand. this isn't about me. it truly is about US." something like that.

good luck. i just pray you'll give your marriage the consideration it deserves.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

voivod said:


> stuckand scared,
> 
> you say:
> >>>he always said we would follow whichever career was more reliable, which will probably be mine, but now he is wanting me to put things on hold for him for the 3rd time in 7 years....so, I have to say that after months of working on things, he hasn't shown any signs of change and that is even knowing how depressed I am....any thoughts there?<<<
> ...


:iagree:

draconis


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

stuckandscared said:


> I used to think I could regain my feelings, but I would stake my life on it that I am just done...I want him happy and given the spoiled way he was brought up, his continued lack of compassion/empathy for others, several other big ticket concerns, and the way I have catered to him....I truly don't think he has the capacity to change....it is very sad...I am so very sad for him...the only way I think he will be happy is if I suck it up and continue to put my wants/needs/dreams on the back-burner....


If he is unwilling to make changes and stick with them it is time for you to. Stop catering to his wants (These are not needs, he is perfectly capable of doing laundry, cleaning a bathroom….) he is not earning your support. Start to live for yourself a bit. Go out with friends, continue to go to the gym. Let him fend for himself a bit more. Pick up his own socks so to speak. Don’t neglect the house but let him know there are things he agreed to do and he needs to do them. If you develop your own interests and friends it may get him to finally see the light. Don’t make this confrontational, just that you have social needs and interests. If he’d like to join you in them, fine. If not at least you extended the invitation. Good luck


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## stuckandscared (Sep 4, 2008)

Hey everyone,
So we have been talking....he is convinced that my disinterest in being around him, my silence, etc. is because he's been reading similar sites as this and worries that I am cheating on him...He should know me better than that...There are a few things in life that I feel you never do, and one is to cheat on a mate...I've always said that if someone decides they want to be with someone else, then they should leave the other person first...I am just not the type of person to cheat....I told him he should know that, but I understand how with my changes, how he could feel that way...but I reassured him that I haven't and won't....I did tell him that I want some freedom and some independence...he said those two things aren't compatible with marriage...I told him that I need some time and space to clear my head and think....and to not constantly feel like big brother is watching me....he said that is really hard for him to do especially now b/c things are so strained and b/c I have been avoiding him and pushing him away. I told him that I don't think he has the capacity to give me the time/space I am asking for and needing...while I kind of understand his point, and I do feel horrible that we haven't been talking more frequently and that we have no intimacy (which is all my fault but I don't have those feelings for him now), I still need and want space. He mentioned separation and asked if that is what I want...I told him I didn't say that and then later as we talked more (in circles...you know how that goes), I said, "maybe we should separate for a bit" so I can clear my head and have time to think....he then said, he thought that was a "bad idea b/c we really won't talk then and we'll be more likely to not get back together"....He told me I am selfish and only thinking of myself...and he wondered if I cared about him...I told him, "of course I care about you...if I didn't, I wouldn't be here"...and I wouldn't...if I didn't care, I wouldn't worry about hurting his feelings and I would be filing for divorce. I just don't understand how this can happen...we had what was thought of as the perfect marriage...obviously it was not and years of things have built up....I just don't understand how people can fall out of love...I NEVER thought it would happen to me and it absolutely kills me to know that I have and I would rather die than hurt him....I don't think he has the capacity to make the changes I need for a partner and even if he could change, I don't see myself falling back in love with him. It is either sacrifice myself and live a lie or hurt him...I do love him and want to take care of him b/c he is a wonderful man, but we just aren't going the same paths and maybe I am selfish, but I....ugh, I wish the tables were turned and he would be the one whose feelings changed....Death would be easier than hurting a loved one...truly!!!

Thanks for listening to me babble


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Amen sister! I feel much the same way as you, though maybe not rightfully so. My husband and I have completetly different issues, and not to rub it in, but he really does his fair share around the house and such. 

You SHOULD NOT sacrifice yourself nor live a lie. You would be wasting your life. 

I totally get the intimacy thing...I thought I was the only one who felt like this. The men on the forum suggest telling your man what you need and desire. My husband has listened to my needs and really worked to change things. He has been wonderful. Sadly, though, my feelings haven't really changed. I'm sorry your husband is reacting the way he is.

I agree with a previous post that your husband is insecure and has control issues. He needs to recognize this himself so that he can work on it. Whether or not you stay together, you should definitely encourage him to work on this. (Although, it seems he might be reluctant based on the information you've given us about him.) 

What's interesting is that he brought up separation, but when you later agreed it was a good idea, he reacted by saying that you must not care about him. Isn't that passive-aggressive or something? I'm no psychologist...but you don't bring something up as an option if you aren't willing to consider it. That's my opinion anyway. 

Everyone keeps saying you can't fall out of love...but I feel the same way you do about this. Seriously though, he really can't expect you to feel differently unless he is willing to put some major effort into changing the dynamics of your relationship. If he's not willing, then what are you supposed to do? Hopefully, he realizes and works on these issues before it's too late. I wish you lots of luck.

I must say, it's relief that someone else out there has the same types of feelings I do. I feel so guilty for feeling what I feel...hence the name guiltygirl.


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## stuckandscared (Sep 4, 2008)

I feel sooooo guilty and detest myself every waking minute of every day....I know how you feel, sweetie....it is terrible....I am waiting to get my husband an appt. with the counselor I've been seeing....he needs help no matter what happens between us...and I need to know he has a support system before I could ever make steps toward separation and/or divorce. I really do care about him and his feelings and I want him to be happy yet I truly don't believe he can be happy without me....ugh! Who would have seen this coming, huh? It is so hard and I wish I had a magic solution for all of us!

You know, I never thought people could just fall out of love, but apparently, they can...until you've experienced it, it is hard to imagine....

Take care of yourself and know that I will be right here and you are not alone!


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks! I am also here for you anytime.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I sent you a private message in response to the post you made on md250r.


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## SNOWBUNNY1961 (Jun 25, 2008)

Thank you SO much for this post. My situation is so much like yours -- the isolation, temper tantrums, the guilt trips -- and I've been dealing with it for 27 years and I've just gotten to the point that I can't deal with it anymore. Don't dare even go out to eat in a restaurant because invariably someone says something or looks at him the wrong way that sets him off and he explodes. I figured it was just having one of those midlife things where everything your partner does suddenly bothers you.

I have a feeling my marriage is past the point of no return, tho. He sees no reason to change -- he's never had to deal with any kind of responsibilities and isn't going to now. You try to talk to him and you either get the little baby talking boy or the f-word tirade with the threat of physically convincing you to shut your face and obey like a good little wife. 

OK, that's enough about my problems. Just really appreciate knowing that there's someone out there that understands what I'm going thru.

I hope everything works out for you.


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## stuckandscared (Sep 4, 2008)

Dear Snowbunny1961,

I am SO very sorry for your situation...My husband is actually very far from violent and he isn't the type to rant, rave and yell....he is however either crying and sad, or if he is really hurt or fed up, he gets very stone cold...plus there are the constant guilt trips and what I feel are the manipulations...he puts up a "Screw the world" attitude....but everything else seems spot on with my H. I am so very scared of hurting him and I can't explain (although we are writing each other lists about everything that bothers us...I am hoping he will gain some enlightenment...me too) completely why, after 11 years, I suddenly decided I can't continue to live this life....despite all of the good times...I feel enslaved and I don't want to do what you have (and I mean this in a very sympathetic and apologetic way) and spend another 20-years of my life feeling imprisoned. I have so many friends that have lived like you and I for 20-30 years...and that just seems like too long to live a life of compromised happiness...I wish you all the strength and encouragement needed for you to find true happiness....no matter what that happiness entails...H or no H!!!

I too feel that things are past the point of no return...even if he could change, which he has shown no overly promising signs of being able to do for an extended period of time....I don't think I can 1. fully forgive and forget 2. get the energy together necessary to really give this a second try. Does that make sense?

Please take care of yourself and if he is EVER violent, please do find the strength to cut yourself loose.

Warmest regards,
Stuckandscared


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## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

stuckandscared said:


> .Death would be easier than hurting a loved one...truly!!!


:iagree:


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

stuckandscared said:


> I really do care about him and his feelings and I want him to be happy yet I truly don't believe he can be happy without me....ugh!


you sure you don't reap what you sow?

i'm certainly not saying it's YOUR fault...but we do learn these things someplace...my guess is you have been quite the little caretaker (not a bad thing, necessarily) and he has learned that you are his safety net.

separation would help open his eyes to that. i'm separated for 4 months and have to make sure power, gas, truck rent payments are all taken care of. never had to do that before. kind of a wake up call. it may help me grow enough so eventually I won't be "UGH!" to my wife.


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## SNOWBUNNY1961 (Jun 25, 2008)

I have to answer to that one -- I dont move out because I know hubby won't keep up the payments on the house so I would have to be able to make the payments on wherever I move as well as make the house payments so I don't lose the 13 years worth of payments I have invested in the house. And hubby won't move out because his mother's 14 x 70 trailer is full already with his brother and sister and their families -- yes, his 7 brothers and sisters are exactly the same way so mama has raised practically every one of her 35+ grandchildren as well as her great grandchildren.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

SNOWBUNNY1961 said:


> And hubby won't move out because his mother's 14 x 70 trailer is full already with his brother and sister and their families -- yes, his 7 brothers and sisters are exactly the same way so mama has raised practically every one of her 35+ grandchildren as well as her great grandchildren.



what do they say...the apple don't fall from the tree...it really is sad that y'all could've reached this point...communication must really be bad between you...that's a skill that'll follow you where ever you go. my point...there's a deeper problem here, and it doesn't necessarily go away when you trade the old model in. but i'm sure you know that.

good luck.


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## SNOWBUNNY1961 (Jun 25, 2008)

It is because you are in this type of relationship that the communication goes because your partner is only concerned with his own wants and needs and you start to resent not having a partner but another huge child. Yes, I am aware that I am an enabler -- just as someone that enables an alcoholic -- but when your home and kids are at stake, somebody has to step up to the plate and take care of things. Your partner does start to really take you for granted, and that only breeds more resentment.

And yes, our daughters (13 & 11) are enablers as well because they know what happens if Daddy gets mad so they don't go around him anymore than they have to either because they might say something or do something that hits him the wrong way. 

You're going to AA and learning how to deal with responsibilities -- that's a positive step because you've admitted that you have problems and are working to amend them -- you're working with your wife, not against. 


Myself, I'm not interested in getting another model -- just not interested in keeping a lemon anymore ...

I learned to be an enabler from my dad ... and now my children are learning the same skill? My hubby will not change ... except to get more volatile which is what is happening because he knows he is losing control of his comfort zone ... but you're wanting us to say "you're right, dear" and let him go back to watching his cartoons??

His mother lasted 50 years in a marriage like this -- 50 years in almost total isolation with the exception of her kids and grandkids. Sweet lady but has the look of sad resignation in her eyes always -- her hubby killed her spirit. No kind words from her hubby, just insults and mockery... 

I have seen the future ... and it ain't pretty ...


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

SNOWBUNNY1961 said:


> It is because you are in this type of relationship that the communication goes because your partner is only concerned with his own wants and needs and you start to resent not having a partner but another huge child. Yes, I am aware that I am an enabler -- just as someone that enables an alcoholic -- but when your home and kids are at stake, somebody has to step up to the plate and take care of things. Your partner does start to really take you for granted, and that only breeds more resentment.
> 
> And yes, our daughters (13 & 11) are enablers as well because they know what happens if Daddy gets mad so they don't go around him anymore than they have to either because they might say something or do something that hits him the wrong way.
> 
> ...


no, not "you're right dear" and back to the cartoons...

give him consquences and follow through when he doesn't "get it"

whatever behavior you want to end...tell him "take positive, quantifiable step to fix it, or i'm leaving"

and stick to it. maybe he'll just say "whatever" and go back to his cartoons. at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing he got a chance. he can't guilt you out of it at that point.

i'm gonna go back and look at you previous post and find if there's something similar that i've lived through to give some real life to.

good luck.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

yep, you're a caretaker alright. and i'm not saying that as a criticism. your skills are apparently highly developed. out of survival. mental survival.

have you thought about how he would do by himself? allowed to develop some day to day skills of his own, thereby giving you some time to do those things you enjoy, shopping with friends, etc.

space is the nice word for it. could you guys do like ricky and lucy did and draw a line down the middle of you house? live together but apart? he needs to learn how to do some "things." so do i. that's where i'm at right now. trying to grow up in a hurry.


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## SNOWBUNNY1961 (Jun 25, 2008)

We do moreless live apart actually -- we only see each other on weekends and for about 5 hours a nite -- I work days and he works graveyard. And when we are home together, we're not on the same floor --if he's on the main floor, I'm in the basement -- I come upstairs if he's outside -- find his bodily noises quite irritating. Sorry about that remark, but it is the truth...

He won't really do anything for himself -- he loves to eat out so cooking/grocery shopping aren't necessary. He will do his own laundry as long as he doesn't have to go to a laundry mat. He doesn't clean the house cuz it'll just get dirty again. 

It's harder for him to see the problems in our marriage because of what his parents' marriage was like -- his father's behavior was the norm to him. 

I do not give him ultimatums because of the reaction I would get -- not a good idea because it makes him very angry. 

Guess I don't leave because I feel so alone -- you get in the car and realize you have no one to turn to for help because friends and family don't like to get involved and since it's his home turf, no one is going to help you just because he's hometown so it has to be me at fault because I'm the outsider. It's you against the rest of the world and that can be pretty darn intimidating ..


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

WOW! I thought I was the only one who felt like I was wrong because "I fell out of love" with my husband. The reason your husbands dont "listen to you" is because they havent come to a point in their life where they actually HAD to.
My marriage and family have been much the same..the kids didnt talk to Dad cuz they never knew what kind of mood he was going to be in so they just steared clear...you dont have any friends to turn to because he made you believe they werent truely friends and you got rid of them to please him...he was selfish and thought only of himself and his wants and needs...he was controlling...he was smarter than you....I could list a million things here!!
I never left because he once told me that I would never see my kids again and that no judge in his right mind would give ME custody of my kids when my family is so broken and mentally unstable. I never left because I have no skills...I have been a stay at home Mom and housewife...how could I ever think that I could support my kids and myself financially on my own...I felt that I needed him...and he needed me...a mother to his kids, a grocery getter, a cook, a maid, a financial advisor, etc.
I "fell out of love" years ago...but stayed out of a commitment I made not only to him, but to myself. I stayed out of obligation! Obligation to my vows and obligation to give my kids a happy childhood that I never had. 
It is hard to talk to a man that always finds a way to turn the conversation around and make YOU feel GUILTY for not thinking the same way he does about anything...you learn to just shut your mouth and deal with it. Well, let me tell you...I have done this for almost 20 years...but I finally did some growing up in the past couple years and am finding out I am much stronger and smarter than I was ever lead to believe I was!!
So here I am in a marriage that I some times regret, and ready to call an end to it..but wouldnt you know it...my husband FINALLY decided to listen to me. About 2 years ago, I simply told him " I am done, I have had enough" my plan was to leave when both kids were 18 and out of high school!! To my surprise...he has changed BIG TIME!! I am not saying your husbands will change....but when they are faced with the cold hard fact that there is a BIG possibility they will lose you...they may change their ways. 
There are so many cliches you hear, but never put truth to them until you live them. The whole falling out of love thing IS possible...too little too late IS true...love will get you through anything is a lie!!!
As women we are lead to believe we are the inferior gender...I have discovered that that is a lie!!! All women have stengths they dont know they have until they are faced with the chance to use them. You have to find your inner strength and tell yourself that no matter what may or may not happen in your marriage..you WILL be ok alone if the marriage is ended!! I have discovered that we dont HAVE to put up with a man that does not treat us the way we deserve to be treated. All we really want is to be loved and respected for who we are...not what we can bring to a relationship. Men think we are complicated, but we really arent that bad..we want to FEEL like we are appreciated, not just told we are...we want to FEEL loved, not just told that we are..we want to FEEL like we make a difference, not just be told that we do. 
So let me ask you this....if your husband had to make a choice...if he was FORCED to make a choice...what would it be? If it is NOT you...then I am sad to say you have no business staying with him. 
Some may see this as fortunate...I am still trying to decide for myself, but my husband has changed in ways I NEVER thought possible. When I told him I was done...he was FORCED to make a choice...he chose me and his boys. 
I do not mean to "bash men" here, I am only trying to point out to the women that you are stronger than you think, and you dont HAVE to put up with the destructive behavior of your husbands to be happy. 
My husband is a great man too, but not the father and husband he intended to be when we first started out.

Sorry for the babble, I have a tendancy to go off on a topic when it is heartfelt.

Just know you have more power and strength than you ever thought you had!!!!


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## SNOWBUNNY1961 (Jun 25, 2008)

If given the ultimatum, my hubby would choose me but for the wrong reasons -- he would choose me for security reasons -- not because of any feeling for me. I'm not scared of being alone -- just want to provide my kids with some stability in this world.

As with stuckandscared, I have no wish to hurt my hubby --but I know I cannot last until my kids are 18 -- his behavior has killed any desire to be with him and I'm just ready to move on. Sadly, even if he tried to change, past experience has proven that any changes he made would be short lived.

Thank you, Sprite ... I hear what you're saying ...


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

SNOWBUNNY1961 said:


> If given the ultimatum, my hubby would choose me but for the wrong reasons -- he would choose me for security reasons -- not because of any feeling for me. I'm not scared of being alone -- just want to provide my kids with some stability in this world.


but he doesn't get you for security and stability, that's the point. he'll HAVE TO make the decision to be more self-reliant. i'm living through it right now. i have changed sooo much in the past 5 months, and it's all good. i'm gonna survive, and i think my (separated) wife likes me better too. i know i like myself better.


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## SNOWBUNNY1961 (Jun 25, 2008)

He can only become self-reliant if he wants to -- and I really don't think he wants to because it's a whole lot easier to let someone else do the worrying and deal with the stress.

Sprite's pretty well dead on center about how my marriage has been. You keep your marriage together for the kids but it's not a situation I want to live the rest of my life in. I've given up so much because it upset him or bothered him --

You cared enuff about your wife to listen to her but my hubby is a very poor listener ...


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Most men are poor listeners...sorry guys! 

It took me three years(this time) to get it through my husbands head that I was coming to the end of my ropes...and he didnt do anything about it until he heard the words "I am done".

That put his whole world into a tailspin because he knew I meant it. I had finally called his bluff on the threats and he didnt like it!

He tries so hard now...but how do you live in a marriage when you have no love for the man? dont get me wrong, I love him as a person and as the father of my children, and he is finally a good friend...but I am not in love with him and have no desire to have any romantic relationship with him...this he still does NOT get.

I agree with you snowbunny when you say this is not a situtation you want to live the rest of your life....it isnt fair. Maybe it is about time you do for yourself...not everyone around you.(that is SOOOO easy to say...but hard to follow)


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Sprite said:


> Most men are poor listeners...sorry guys!


gosh i don't wanna be "that guy," but may i say this: women are poor communicators.

okay, not true. but we as receivers are tuned to one frequency, and you broadcast from another frequency. we aren't very good at changing the station. but i learned from my years in radio that you have to broadcast TO your target audience. when you don't, this happens:


Sprite said:


> It took me three years(this time) to get it through my husbands head that I was coming to the end of my ropes...and he didnt do anything about it until he heard the words "I am done".
> 
> That put his whole world into a tailspin because he knew I meant it. I had finally called his bluff on the threats and he didnt like it!


you changed your "frequency" and he received the message.


Sprite said:


> but I am not in love with him and have no desire to have any romantic relationship with him...this he still does NOT get.


time to change the "frequency" again?

sorry sprite. i know you care. your heart shows in your posts. but we men are dense! that's why the frying pan upside the head is such a funny visual comedy schtick with regard to men and women and communication. i'm sure i should plead the fifth and bow out here. but WE ARE DENSE! it takes a life changing event (stroke/wife packing her stuff/actually leaving) for us to "get it" sometimes. and i don't mean all men, i mean "us." just us dense ones.

good luck. i hope somehow your spouse regains his way and you fall back in love. they ARE your walls. and i hope for both your sakes, they come down someday.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

OK...how do I change the frequency on that one without making him feel ....i dont know what word to use here....inadequate comes to mind. What do I do...jsut come out and say...Im sorry honey, you do nothing for me romantically? I have told him several times that I am not in love with him...he should know that by now.
And you are not dense.....now
And dont apologize, you made total sense and I understand it, and I appreciate the input! I just never really looked at it that way...thanks


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Sprite said:


> OK...how do I change the frequency on that one without making him feel ....i dont know what word to use here....inadequate comes to mind. What do I do...jsut come out and say...Im sorry honey, you do nothing for me romantically? I have told him several times that I am not in love with him...he should know that by now.
> And you are not dense.....now
> And dont apologize, you made total sense and I understand it, and I appreciate the input! I just never really looked at it that way...thanks


okay, the "in love with him" part will either happen or not. but there is cause and effect. the cause is the variable. the effect is quantifiable. sorry, more algebra talk there.

"honey, here's what really does it for me romantically..."

message sent.

message received? you'll find out soon enough.

over time he will do those things that "do it" for you romantically. then the "in love with him" will happen. we hope. has he never done it for you romantically? even in the beginning? what were those things? he raced cars, right? you gotta be a fairly little guy to fit in a race car. he hasn't gone overboard with his weight has he? hygeine? looks? no one changes appearance that much.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

uhm...I think I will have to PM you on that last comment there. And he ended up not actually driving the car cuz he did not fit in the window...so yeah


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

okay, but you're talking to a guy who has lost 102 lbs since last november the good ol' fashioned way (sorta) so my opinion may be a little jaded.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

How did you do it? And did you keep the weight off? He has tried to lose weight..and has done so succesfully..but only to put it all back on and then some. He looks at himself in the mirror and says" God Im tired of being such a fat***" as he grabs a bag of chips and sits down in front of the TV. I keep telling him to eat a carrot instead...its kind of a joke around here. What frequency do I need to be on here? Without coming right out and saying..you need to lose weight...he knows he does. I dont want to hurt his feelings because its not about how he looks or how badly out of shape his body is...but it effects other areas of our marriage and leaves me frustrated!

Sorry for being off topic here. But, I hope that I am not the only one that is disappointed in how their spouse has handled taking care of themselves physically over the years. This is a whole different issue which I never bring up in conversations because I dont want to hurt his feelings.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Sprite said:


> How did you do it? And did you keep the weight off?


okay, i joke about it, but it's true. i call it "the stroke diet." i almost died in january. had a stroke due to high blood pressure. i had to lose weight or i was gonna die again. i have been cursed with a body that carries weight well. when i was heavier, i didn't look bad, still played sports, and wore regular clothes. but i was a fatass to.

my first step was to cut out most everything that was bad. high fats and alcohol, gone. and i swear to God the weight fell off. i did my physical therapy, which was hard work. but i didn't do anything else.

mine was really passive. i guess i didn't "do" much of anything. i just was motivated. real motivated. it's like Mark Twain said about addictions: when you're 100% committed, it happens. i was motivated by the fear of leaving my family behind.

and yes i did keep the weight off.


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