# Porn is the devil



## greg28 (Jun 26, 2018)

Just reminding everyone. It’s why your sex life has suffered. No need to read any of the discussions about what’s going on next door at the Jones’s. I will tell you. He watches porn, she doesn’t want sex unless it’s complicated and planned out 8 days prior. “On the 8th day thy wife will layeth next to thee and you shall not knoweth when or how to pleasure her, for thy wife now only desires to be a lock with no matching key. Thy key that holdeth this entry man shall never possess. Only when man look for other locks to access shall thy wife become concerned with his labors and spreadeth thy legs. The key has not been found my son for there is no key in marriage, so she shall blameth thy porneth to disguise her own sours. Beat thy meat in sin. For it will guide you and keep thy seed from entering other she-locks and paying childeth supportheth”


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Having a dry spell I take it? Was it due to a failed threesome attempt or she didn't go for the hot wife fetish?


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

I don't get why spouses stay together if they do not fancy each other. Surely if one needs sex and the other is not ill then there is a half way point to be reached. 

What exactly is the need for porn? What does it add to anyone and how does it replace sex with a spouse if he/she is not wanting to take part? Would it not just increase the frustration?


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

MaiChi said:


> I don't get why spouses stay together if they do not fancy each other. Surely if one needs sex and the other is not ill then there is a half way point to be reached.
> 
> What exactly is the need for porn? What does it add to anyone and how does it replace sex with a spouse if he/she is not wanting to take part? Would it not just increase the frustration?


If only it was that simple.
If you're married for a year or two and it's not working, then save yourself the misery and end it. But what if like in my case we're married 13 years (together 17,) love each other, are happily married, had a fantastic sex life, then one day she just drops to zero desire? The relationship dynamic made a big shift and where I'd normally get some flirtation, interest, sexual advances or maybe even straight up initiating sex, I the response is always along the lines of not really wanting to, but she'll "take care of your needs." The frequency of sex becomes forever less frequent and when it is, it's not very good because she seems like she doesn't want to. In my case, I just stopped initiating to see how long we would go before she said anything. After 3 months I gave up. She called my bluff. I even made several attempts to get her to suggest it, but she managed to find a way to avoid getting trapped into having sex with me.

So what, you just get divorced. No, not for a dozen reasons. After all, has she done anything wrong? Hasn't lied, cheated, been abusive, says she loves you, the relationship is otherwise quite good, she just doesn't want to have sex with anyone (including you) but *will* if you *need* to. But you're really tired of having to work so hard for reluctant duty sex.

So you're not going to divorce, you're not going to cheat, but you still want to have sex. You get it far less than you want to and even then it's a major burden (at least she makes it feel that way.) But she's in denial that there's anything at all wrong because "do I ever say no?" Well, no, but you're clear about your signals that you're not interested in me even asking. Half the time it's a request for a rain check which is really no, but you know you can't say no to me twice in a row. And yes, she did flat out say no a few times but she'll deny it.

(I'll add that when we got married, we agreed that we'd never say not to each other for sex. That was HER idea, not mine.)

So you're left with having sex with yourself. You're married and having sex with yourself. How pathetic is that? It's a trap and a crappy situation to be in. Porn sounds like an answer, but it's a bad answer. As this OP and @CatholicDad are always saying, you should be putting every bit of that sexual frustration into your relationship, not into porn. But porn is a lot easier. A lot less work. And you don't get the demoralizing response from your loving spouse that you're not something they sexually desire.

In short... mismatched desire and the person who wants more get tired of working for it. The one who wants less gets all and more sex than they could ever need (so they're happy with their sex at least.)

Pathetically I fell down that hole. After about two years I had enough. The pivot in our relationship was seemingly sudden from great to bad leaving me perplexed. It's not like it was that way from the start otherwise I'd probably have gotten out LOOOONG ago. Also, I'd never had a porn problem before. It was rare, it was for entertainment and curiosity, maybe even some dirty ideas. We even included porn in our sex life on a few occasions (but after a while we realized it wasn't doing much for us so that ended.) I had never hidden it or denied porn. Really, it never occurred to me that it could be a potential problem.

But I had enough. A few discussions with her and a few fights about being rebuffed later, we managed to fix it. It started with her denial that there was a problem needing to be addressed. There was some accusation about me "just wanting more sex." Then I think she finally understood that our relationship had devolved to a platonic one where I was very unhappy. She probably thought she needed to fix it or her husband was probably going to jump on the next train that rolls through town (another woman.) Let me tell you, I was thinking about it. Why not be with a woman that adores me and wants me than with one that just says yes to sex when she *has* to?

Getting to the root of the libido problem was part of it. Did it turn out to be partially medical, partially hormonal, partially age? I'm not sure we really "fixed" it but it did improve. Identifying and admitting she had a libido problem at all one was part of the challenge. It's hard to convince someone that doesn't desire sex that they have a problem with their libido. Also, getting her to commit to working on putting the flame back into our relationship part of it. Most importantly, respond positively to my affectionate advances rather than negatively. This is a bad example but one day she was bent over the bed reading her phone in nothing but underwear. Her ass looked sexy and I have a thing for an ass in panties (she's very well aware and used to use it on me all of the time.) I walked past the room and said something like, "Oh, that looks sexy to me." I was passing by and it wasn't like I stopped, stared, and was trying to turn it into havings sex. It was a passing appreciation of how attractive she was.

She screamed at me for looking at her and slammed the door as if I were her brother peeping on his sister or something. I blew up at her that this is not the way a wife should respond to her husband appreciating how attractive she is. It was really the pinnacle of the "WTF?!" moment where I communicated her as constructively as possible that she needed to change her attitude about me. In that particular case she agreed, apologized, and after that things started changing (in conjunction with the other efforts.)

Sorry, I'm off in the weeds here reliving an unhappy time.

Bottom line is that it ends in a success story. We're back on track. I also identify that me going off to porn made things worse, not better. Ending porn and re-focusing all of that energy back into our relationship had a profound impact on recovery. Are we back to going at it like rabbits like we used to? No. But we have something that works and I'm happy. 

Not everyone turns thins around. Most seem to not according to the threads here. I have to say that if our discussions hadn't led to a positivel comeback, I'd probably have left her by now. I think she realized she was getting close to losing me, knew how terribly she loved me, and decided to show me the love and affection I wanted. 

So it's really not just about sex. It's really about each other wanting each other and showing that to each other. When that's misatched or missing, then there is an unbalanced situation where it's not necessarily clear that it's tim e to call it quits. It can be a somewhat slowly progressing, complex, and nebulous problem

Sorry for the wall of text.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

JamesTKirk said:


> If only it was that simple....
> 
> ....In short... mismatched desire and the person who wants more get tired of working for it. The one who wants less gets all and more sex than they could ever need (so they're happy with their sex at least.)
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing. A very good post based on real experience and what worked for you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JamesTKirk said:


> If only it was that simple.
> If you're married for a year or two and it's not working, then save yourself the misery and end it. But what if like in my case we're married 13 years (together 17,) love each other, are happily married, had a fantastic sex life, then one day she just drops to zero desire? The relationship dynamic maked a big shift and where I'd normally get some flirtation, interest, sexual advances or maybe even straight up initiating sex, I the response is always along the lines of not really wanting to, but she'll "take care of your needs." The frequency of sex becomes forever less frequent and when it is, it's not very good because she seems like she doesn't want to. In my case, I just stopped initiating to see how long we would go before she said anything. After 3 months I gave up. She called my bluff. I even made several attempts to get her to suggest it, but she managed to find a way to avoid getting trapped into having sex with me.
> 
> So what, you just get divorced. No, not for a dozen reasons. After all, has she done anything wrong? Hasn't lied, cheated, been abusive, says she loves you, the relationship is otherwise quite good, she just doesn't want to have sex with anyone (including you) but *will* if you *need* to. But you're really tired of having to work so hard for reluctant duty sex.
> ...


Do you have a thread about this? I have some questions. Great post!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

JamesTKirk said:


> If only it was that simple.
> If you're married for a year or two and it's not working, then save yourself the misery and end it. But what if like in my case we're married 13 years (together 17,) love each other, are happily married, had a fantastic sex life, then one day she just drops to zero desire? The relationship dynamic maked a big shift and where I'd normally get some flirtation, interest, sexual advances or maybe even straight up initiating sex, I the response is always along the lines of not really wanting to, but she'll "take care of your needs." The frequency of sex becomes forever less frequent and when it is, it's not very good because she seems like she doesn't want to. In my case, I just stopped initiating to see how long we would go before she said anything. After 3 months I gave up. She called my bluff. I even made several attempts to get her to suggest it, but she managed to find a way to avoid getting trapped into having sex with me.
> 
> So what, you just get divorced. No, not for a dozen reasons. After all, has she done anything wrong? Hasn't lied, cheated, been abusive, says she loves you, the relationship is otherwise quite good, she just doesn't want to have sex with anyone (including you) but *will* if you *need* to. But you're really tired of having to work so hard for reluctant duty sex.
> ...


You and I have incredibly similar stories.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

@JamesTKirk Now THAT was one of the best posts I’ve read in a long time.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I was watching one of those Nova documentaries the other day about decoding all the ways that animals and insects communicate to one another with language. There was a fascinating segment about spiders narrated by the scientist that has studied them in detail. At one point he stated that his job was basically watching an extraordinary amount of video footage of spiders having sex. He then went on to demonstrate...

This guy gets out a pair of pantyhose and stretches out tight. You know, because perhaps that was his best idea for simulating the surface tensions and vibrations of a spider web. Then he placed spiders onto the pantyhose and dialed in the lights, cameras, and special supersonic microphones guided by laser. The spiders commenced to doing their thing...

The whole time watching this I thought to myself, "this scientist dude is totally a spider porn enthusiast and the NOVA producers are freaking oblivious!" But yet I couldn't stop watching the NOVA documentary myself because it was so educational, so I guess I am a bit of a hypocrite or just confused. 

https://www.pbs.org/video/can-we-crack-code-animal-communication-xcxyyh/

Porn. The only way to define porn is, "I'll know it when I see it" as was once claimed by a US legislator. Perhaps he should have a watch and make sure this episode is indeed family friendly. As for me it felt kind of uncomfortably freaky once I realized the guy used pantyhose for all his experiments. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

badsanta said:


> I was watching one of those Nova documentaries the other day about decoding all the ways that animals and insects communicate to one another with language. There was a fascinating segment about spiders narrated by the scientist that has studied them in detail. At one point he stated that his job was basically watching an extraordinary amount of video footage of spiders having sex. He then went on to demonstrate...
> 
> This guy gets out a pair of pantyhose and stretches out tight. You know, because perhaps that was his best idea for simulating the surface tensions and vibrations of a spider web. Then he placed spiders onto the pantyhose and dialed in the lights, cameras, and special supersonic microphones guided by laser. The spiders commenced to doing their thing...
> 
> ...


It's interesting how it made you feel. Where is the line of what porn is and does that include other species (when humans aren't involved?)
That's really a more philosophical question of what is "porn?" One definition is "printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings."

This implies to me that porn isn't just the watching of explicitly sex acts, but it's with the intention of getting a result from it (obviously usually sex or masturbation.) In the case of this researcher or the videos we were shown in a sex-ed class in college, it's not for the purpose of pleasure. So is it really porn or is it just an explicit video of sex acts? What about Fifty Shades of Grey, is that explicitly enough to be considered porn. What about it being for the purpose of simulating emotional feelings?

I'll say quite simply not all porn in all scenarios is bad. As I've stated in the past, porn has been used productively in my life from sexual education to use in relationships. Most of that was before the rather extreme internet porn of today was invented, so it's not as simple as "porn" in a one size fits all sense. Used in the right context, in moderation, and the right kind of porn, it's not necessarily bad. It's really just entertainment much like going to a movie. One analogy would be a violent scene in a movie which can also be argued as bad.

It's a complex topic, to say the least. I agree that a solo person regularly using porn is going to end badly. It's analogous to experimenting with opioids. Sure, it may seem great when used a few times or in moderation, but the fall into addiction is a very slippery slope and it tends to always have a negative impact on your relationship, your job, productivity, and psychological and physical health. There are many stories of guys on yourbrainrebalanced.com who think they'll never have sex with a woman because their brain has been so damaged by porn. It's not a hard science and I don't believe there is no hope for them, but I can agree that it has messed them up. Getting off porn and masturbation and refocusing that energy on making themselves better physically, jobs, and friendships is the best road to recovery.

If you have to ask yourself if you have a porn problem, you have a porn problem. Should you feel bad seeing it once in a while? I don't think so. And can it be watched or used constructively? Yes. But you have to be careful.

I don't think watching sexually explicit acts in and of itself constitutes porn. We watched some pretty explicit stuff in a college sex-ed class. Clearly, it was made for educational purposes, but the visual content wasn't much different. I remember feeling a bit disgusted with the gay sex scenes and the professor giving us a lot of crap about out unintended groans. No one was outright yelling "disgusting" but many of us made a sound and looked away. Logically, there was nothing wrong with it. I'm a progressive guy and I think a gay relationship is just as beautiful as a hetero one. But seeing two guys go at it back-door or doing oral made me want to look away. It was a sex-ed class and we were there to learn for better or for worse, and it was explicitly, but not technically "porn" as it wasn't there for us to enjoy.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

JamesTKirk said:


> If only it was that simple.
> If you're married for a year or two and it's not working, then save yourself the misery and end it. But what if like in my case we're married 13 years (together 17,) love each other, are happily married, had a fantastic sex life, then one day she just drops to zero desire? The relationship dynamic maked a big shift and where I'd normally get some flirtation, interest, sexual advances or maybe even straight up initiating sex, I the response is always along the lines of not really wanting to, but she'll "take care of your needs." The frequency of sex becomes forever less frequent and when it is, it's not very good because she seems like she doesn't want to. In my case, I just stopped initiating to see how long we would go before she said anything. After 3 months I gave up. She called my bluff. I even made several attempts to get her to suggest it, but she managed to find a way to avoid getting trapped into having sex with me.
> 
> So what, you just get divorced. No, not for a dozen reasons. After all, has she done anything wrong? Hasn't lied, cheated, been abusive, says she loves you, the relationship is otherwise quite good, she just doesn't want to have sex with anyone (including you) but *will* if you *need* to. But you're really tired of having to work so hard for reluctant duty sex.
> ...


Thank you. That is a very eloquent piece of a puzzle that I have not heard it described like that before. I have heard people simply saying they are not interested, and their spouses saying they need them to be interested. Catch 22 if there is no common understanding. 

How long did you endure this situation. I think if my husband came home and said he no longer was interested, my reaction would not be a calm as yours. I am sure of that.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

greg28 said:


> Just reminding everyone. It’s why your sex life has suffered. No need to read any of the discussions about what’s going on next door at the Jones’s. I will tell you. He watches porn, she doesn’t want sex unless it’s complicated and planned out 8 days prior. “On the 8th day thy wife will layeth next to thee and you shall not knoweth when or how to pleasure her, for thy wife now only desires to be a lock with no matching key. Thy key that holdeth this entry man shall never possess. Only when man look for other locks to access shall thy wife become concerned with his labors and spreadeth thy legs. The key has not been found my son for there is no key in marriage, so she shall blameth thy porneth to disguise her own sours. Beat thy meat in sin. For it will guide you and keep thy seed from entering other she-locks and paying childeth supportheth”


I'm sorry you're so bitter. But I bet it really turns the women on, right?


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Do you have a thread about this? I have some questions. Great post!


I do not. I've posted here on and off over the years as I struggled through this journey. Like many, I came here looking for answers. As things got better I stopped visiting here and I don't recall ever posting a concise story from start to finish about the whole thing just stuff here and there about what had happened and how things improved. Also, this particular post was really an attempt to spell out how one gets into the trap with seemingly no way out or in.

Tell you what. Since I've had some positive reaction to this post, I'll re-post this to a different thread so we can drill down on the discussion. I've popped the lid off my life so let's dig in. 

The former moderator (of a different site) would like to keep this thread on-topic so we can feel free to discuss. I hope that's acceptable and makes sense to people.

EDIT: Here it is, the new thread with this post. Please proceed there and let's discuss. I'm happy to share and would love to hear your story.
https://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-m...-coming-back-my-story-share.html#post19824607


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

MaiChi said:


> Thank you. That is a very eloquent piece of a puzzle that I have not heard it described like that before. I have heard people simply saying they are not interested, and their spouses saying they need them to be interested. Catch 22 if there is no common understanding.
> 
> How long did you endure this situation. I think if my husband came home and said he no longer was interested, my reaction would not be a calm as yours. I am sure of that.


I apologize if my post was a bit of a pile on. It was not intended to be an overreaction but I felt like full context was necessary for understanding.

The situation went on over about a three year period. About two years of very rare intimacy (sex or otherwise) followed by a year of trying to fix it. When I say trying talked to her, we worked on it, it failed, we talked, tried, fought, tried, fought again, tried, talked. Eventually, we worked out a system. Just last December 2018 after feeling like we might be devolving down the hole again she "woke up" and became a loving spouse again. I mean actually showed initiative and effort. That part of the story I'll happily elaborate on (if asked) in the new thread I'm creating to continue this discussion

You say that if you came home and your husband "said" he was no longer interested, you wouldn't be calm. Neither would I. I really wish I had that opportunity to work off of but instead I got the opposite. The problem was really more of a subtle gaslighting. She denied any problems, any unhappiness, and made me feel like it was all in my head. I did look for cheating but that definitely wasn't happening. Just a lot of avoidance of intimacy, acting shocked when I was interested in sex "Wait tonight? That wasn't on my radar. I was thinking comfy jammies, a little TV, and going to bed early. I guess so. Can I have a glass of wine first?" That's me paraphrasing. Now at that moment you can dig into the problem, but she's just agreed to have sex with you, you haven't done it in three weeks, so you're not going pass it up by starting a fight. And after sex she had such a great time you think, well that was so good she'll surely want to do it again soon but that doesn't' happen.

It's just enough to keep you on the hook with no direct excuse. There are long periods of time between the good to leave you depressed and demoralized.

There are answers to all of the reasons behind her actions and how that was addressed. That's the long part of the story. I think I'll take that up in the new thread I intend to create.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Thank you for sharing JamesTKirk. Despite your limited posting here, I do recall your insightful posts chiming in on LD situations and the journey you've had. Your perspective is valuable precisely because you are one of the few (as you know) who was able to turn things around and actually improve your sex life. 

Being married for 20 years, I can certainly relate to some of what you've described, which is why I strive to proactively keep things fun and exciting in my relationship with my husband. I feel it is important that both he and I provide that for each other. I look forward to reading your thread.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

JamesTKirk said:


> It's interesting how it made you feel. Where is the line of what porn is and does that include other species (when humans aren't involved?)
> That's really a more philosophical question of what is "porn?" One definition is "printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings."
> 
> This implies to me that porn isn't just the watching of explicitly sex acts, but it's with the intention of getting a result from it (obviously usually sex or masturbation.) In the case of this researcher or the videos we were shown in a sex-ed class in college, it's not for the purpose of pleasure. So is it really porn or is it just an explicit video of sex acts? What about Fifty Shades of Grey, is that explicitly enough to be considered porn. What about it being for the purpose of simulating emotional feelings?
> ...


My post was a bit tongue and cheek. I honestly did have an odd feeling watching that documentary, but it was more of, "oh here is actually someone putting man's innate desire to observe sexual acts to good use by decoding insect language."

As far as how porn can be defined, it is an extremely fascinating that the topic is so easily understood on an individual basis, but yet can not be defined as a society. If someone has a fetish for worn shoes and uses them somehow to enhance masturbation, does that meet the qualifications for someone using porn? Most people would say no because a fetish and porn are different things. Is an R rated movie depicting nudity porn? No because most people tolerate brief gratuitous nudity as a valid form of storytelling. Is a compilation of just the nude scenes from R rated movies considered porn? Yes, because it is easily exploited to enhance masturbation. Are some R rated movies written to arouse viewers? Yes, but that is tolerated as it is just considered entertainment. 

Are romance novels written for the purpose of enhancing masturbation considered porn? No, those are highly tolerated and often praised publicly when well done. Why is this? Perhaps because the entire work is fiction and does not constitute an act similar to prostitution needed for creating the work. Are completely fictional Japanese animations of sexual acts involving nonhuman alien beings considered porn? Yes, most definitely it is!!! 

Is it OK to masturbate? Most agree it is a healthy part of self sexual awareness and exploration. Is it OK to masturbate with porn? Everyone has a different viewpoint regarding that topic. 

What if porn used to be really exciting but suddenly it is no longer stimulating and that person has completely lost all desire to watch anymore of it? Is this an indication of a health problem? Most people would agree that such an individual should see a doctor to make sure everything is OK. 

I could go on and on...

Badsanta


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