# finally found out WHY my husband said he loves me less



## finding-a-path

the background and lot of info about this issue is in the following thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-loves-me-less-after-every-fight-what-do.html

so, on may 23rd my husband told me the complete reason for saying he loves me less.i have been thinking about it and today i feel i am ready to share..

on the last week of April, when i was at work my husband called me and told me his mother said she is coming to stay with us for a month and that he said yes. i said "oh why did you said yes without discussing with me" he said it's just a month so he said yes. so i said "how can i study " i have the most important exam of my career coming up and my husband has told me that his mother watches TV all day.and i cant study when im hearing sounds.so he said (in a louder than usual voice) ok ok i ll tell her not to come now.

after about 2 hours i got a text from his mother. let's call her E. 
It said "im not coming to xxxxxxx with you people coz i now know who you are" (it was a trip we planned to some place) so i called her to explain. without letting me speak she yells "you told me not to come,im not coming there ever, you are not my DIL im not your MIL don't ever come to my house, is exam more important than family" and other stuff for 45 minutes. so i try to explain and when i couldn't i just cut the line.

after a few days she wanted my husband to go with her to see a doc. doc told them her cholesterol level is twice the normal limit and she has a thinned artery. so my husband said shall we take her in ? i said ok after the exam.he didn't sound happy but he said ok. then i noticed that he didn't talk much, didn't laugh, didn't look at me etc. that's when i asked why are you being like this and he said i love you less after every fight. for weeks he only said that. then i pushed saying 'we didn't even fight recently so why are you doing this" THEN he said because of the recent "problem of mother" all the past fights came in to surface and he feels he loves me less ( because i said wait two months to take in his mother till my exam is over ) 

i am completely shocked. i was thinking about this last few days... she blamed me saying so many bad things but he didn't tell her anything about it but when i said wait two months till the exam is over he loves me less for that?:scratchhead:

i think her blaming me was completely out of line. any rational person would have said "ok you finish the exam i can visit later" but she created a big drama... i have been very hurt by it because i called her "mother" for the last 7 years and treated her as such... it showed me she does not give importance to my exams/job she just wants me to say yes to what she wants,when she wants.and i am sure if it was her son who said "i have an exam come later" she would not have said "you are not my son don't come here" etc

despite all that i said ok when my husband asked shall we take her in. i just said wait till exam is over. and for that he behaves like this. 

i guess i just wanted to vent. and to get your input about what you think about this situation.


thank you..


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## finding-a-path

so, what he is telling me now is that those fights i described in the other thread made him distant. but he tried to be ok. but after this problem he remembered those too.


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## finding-a-path

i felt he was distant after about 2 years of marriage. But, i kept trying and asked him to please talk etc. He has told me 'i dont love u' before too. While fighting.but then we made up and he said i love u. But he was distant after the 1st few fights to not get hurt. Then , he was acting more distant than usual. That is why i asked him why he is behaving 'angry' so he only said fights made him love me less. I knew that was only half of the reason because there wasnt a fight recently and yet he was being angry.so after asking a few times he said he loves me less coz of fights and the recent mother's problem BOTH.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

his mother has not spoken to me since this incident.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Her cholesterol sounds very bad. Maybe she is afraid of dying alone, and in older age nobody wants to hear that the young have other priorities than you. Including important exams. Nobody wants to hear that they are less important than a test score.

My foster mother took in kids who didn't have places to stay. When she was studying for her dental hygienist course she put a lamp in a closet and went in there to study, in the far corner of the house. 
She did this for two years.

I'm sorry, you sound very logical about making your mother wait to come to stay with you, but she is probably scared and stressed out and there is a different paradigm where people do put their loved ones first, and cope with getting a lesser score on exams. 

I could have had 4.0 gpa and got an award, but instead one term I drove 120 miles round trip to a hospital to sit in ICU ward with my boyfriend. I did this for three months, there was only one day I didn't go and that was when I thought his family was coming for a holiday (they didn't.)

You have your whole life ahead of you. Surely a short part of it could be less than ideal? If your mother is stressed, her health will be even worse, how can you study not knowing if she is okay? 

Older people are like babies if they have dependencies created by old age disability or health, they are going to cry until they get attention, it is a survival instinct. You cannot even say they are being silly or immature, they are just trying to stay alive. Survival instinct has no dignity, fear takes over and erases all polite civilities.


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## Theseus

finding-a-path said:


> his mother has not spoken to me since this incident.


From the sound of her, maybe you are better off that way...


Your husband sounds like a "injustice collector", who counts up each and every little grievance against him and won't let them go. But he really needs to let go, otherwise he will be miserable all his life (and you as well). Even the best wife in the world is going to do something to irritate him from time to time. One must learn to forgive and forget over time. A marriage counselor would be a good place to start changing this. 

As far as your argument goes, he was not necessarily wrong to invite his mother (he might have genuinely thought it wasn't a big deal) but he was wrong to take your disagreement to the extreme the way he did, and he was definitely wrong to vent to his mother about it. 

You are supposed to be a team, and you can't be a team if he undermines you by taking these disagreements to his mother like that.


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## frusdil

Your husband should have discussed his mother staying with you originally before he said yes to her, and he shouldn't have told her about your exam. Why was she going to stay for a month? That seems a long time. I couldn't think of anything worse than living with MIL for a month!! *shudders*

Any rate, I wouldn't take her in until you've resolved this issue. She needs to apologise to you for the things she said. Until she does that, she has no business being in your home.


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## finding-a-path

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Her cholesterol sounds very bad. Maybe she is afraid of dying alone, and in older age nobody wants to hear that the young have other priorities than you. Including important exams. Nobody wants to hear that they are less important than a test score. (i am using a phone so dont have the change font color option etc.i will type in brackets.when she 1st told she wants to stay for a month,she did not say anything about being sick. She just wanted to visit and stay. My exam is important to me.because if i dont pass it now, it will affect me for 30 or so years.
> )
> 
> My foster mother took in kids who didn't have places to stay. When she was studying for her dental hygienist course she put a lamp in a closet and went in there to study, in the far corner of the house.
> She did this for two years.
> 
> I'm sorry, you sound very logical about making your mother wait to come to stay with you, but she is probably scared and stressed out and there is a different paradigm where people do put their loved ones first, and cope with getting a lesser score on exams.
> 
> I could have had 4.0 gpa and got an award, but instead one term I drove 120 miles round trip to a hospital to sit in ICU ward with my boyfriend. I did this for three months, there was only one day I didn't go and that was when I thought his family was coming for a holiday (they didn't.)
> 
> You have your whole life ahead of you. Surely a short part of it could be less than ideal? If your mother is stressed, her health will be even worse, how can you study not knowing if she is okay? (i dont think in the my whole life is ahead of me way.i live everyday like its my last. And this is not going to be for a short time..)
> 
> Older people are like babies if they have dependencies created by old age disability or health, they are going to cry until they get attention, it is a survival instinct. You cannot even say they are being silly or immature, they are just trying to stay alive. Survival instinct has no dignity, fear takes over and erases all polite civilities.


(she is only 58.i do not think she is that old maybe i am wrong)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Theseus said:


> From the sound of her, maybe you are better off that way...
> 
> 
> Your husband sounds like a "injustice collector", who counts up each and every little grievance against him and won't let them go. But he really needs to let go, otherwise he will be miserable all his life (and you as well). Even the best wife in the world is going to do something to irritate him from time to time. One must learn to forgive and forget over time. A marriage counselor would be a good place to start changing this.
> 
> As far as your argument goes, he was not necessarily wrong to invite his mother (he might have genuinely thought it wasn't a big deal) but he was wrong to take your disagreement to the extreme the way he did, and he was definitely wrong to vent to his mother about it.
> 
> You are supposed to be a team, and you can't be a team if he undermines you by taking these disagreements to his mother like that.


you are spot on in the description of my husband... Is there anyway he can change himself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

frusdil said:


> Your husband should have discussed his mother staying with you originally before he said yes to her, and he shouldn't have told her about your exam. Why was she going to stay for a month? That seems a long time. I couldn't think of anything worse than living with MIL for a month!! *shudders*
> 
> Any rate, I wouldn't take her in until you've resolved this issue. She needs to apologise to you for the things she said. Until she does that, she has no business being in your home.


i wish he just discussed it with me too. Before saying yes to her. I am the one who told him to tell her to come after the exam.was that wrong? We couldnt just tell dont come now.we had to tell the reason... Yes.a month is a long time. She just decided she wants to stay for a month... I just wish she would tell me she wont yell at me again. The most shocking thing is how my husband is behaving. Saying he loves me less coz i asked to wait 2 months...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

this whole situation unfolded in 3 parts. In the 1st part she has just told my husband that she wants to come and stay for a month.she didnt know about being sick... Then i said about the exam,he told it to her,all hell broke loose. 2nd part is when he went to doc with her and got to know her condition and asked me to take her in,i said wait till exam is over and then him acting irritated. Me asking why him saying coz of fights. I knew there must be more to it coz past fights made him distant but he was acting more distant than usual,being angry. 3rd part is him finally saying it is coz of past fights and this problem both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA

This might sound a little cynical, but this is from my own observations:

1) Don't ever assume a MIL actually loves or cares about you. Even if they say it, or believe it for a time, unless they actually consider the feelings of the S/DIL, it's all just make believe.

2) Your DH is not treating you like a partner. He's not asking you for your input on things that will affect you before going ahead and making a decision. If you are irritated by this, you certainly have a right to be.

3) What are your reasons for loving your husband? Usually people can list things about their partner that they love. Do you have any? Maybe you should consider if in fact you are falling out of love with HIM, and HE is actually the one who is feeling it and therefore responding to that lack of honest emotion. If you are just desperate not to be alone, that does not equate to love of another person.


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## JustHer

I read through some of your other post. It seems that this is just an excuse to be mad at you and deny you his love. You said that he has been changing for two years and this behavior has become more and more frequent. Same pattern here with the mom thing, just different subject. I think your husband is emotionally abusive to you, but that is just my opinion.

I am struck by a couple of things. Most men, in the U.S. anyway, would not want their mom to visit for a whole month. And to expect their wife to host her for a month is asking a lot.

What nationality are both of you? Is this normal to you to have family visit for such a long time?


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## murphy5

screw the mom. 

And after how she treated you, do everything you can to keep her out of the house. Even after the "exam". If she REALLY is that bad off, she will humble herself and call with an apology someday. 

If not, see the "screw the mom" comment.


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## finding-a-path

breeze said:


> This might sound a little cynical, but this is from my own observations:
> 
> 1) Don't ever assume a MIL actually loves or cares about you. Even if they say it, or believe it for a time, unless they actually consider the feelings of the S/DIL, it's all just make believe.
> 
> 2) Your DH is not treating you like a partner. He's not asking you for your input on things that will affect you before going ahead and making a decision. If you are irritated by this, you certainly have a right to be.
> 
> 3) What are your reasons for loving your husband? Usually people can list things about their partner that they love. Do you have any? Maybe you should consider if in fact you are falling out of love with HIM, and HE is actually the one who is feeling it and therefore responding to that lack of honest emotion. If you are just desperate not to be alone, that does not equate to love of another person.


1) i think you are correct. For 7 years i thought she loves me and i loved her too.but,if she does not care about what is important to me,and can say you are not my DIL i guess you are correct.. 
2) he usually does ask me before deciding things. I was surprised when he said yes to her without discussing 
3) He is honest,hardworking, cares about me,faithful. We love the same things Etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

JustHer said:


> I read through some of your other post. It seems that this is just an excuse to be mad at you and deny you his love. You said that he has been changing for two years and this behavior has become more and more frequent. Same pattern here with the mom thing, just different subject. I think your husband is emotionally abusive to you, but that is just my opinion.
> 
> I am struck by a couple of things. Most men, in the U.S. anyway, would not want their mom to visit for a whole month. And to expect their wife to host her for a month is asking a lot.
> 
> What nationality are both of you? Is this normal to you to have family visit for such a long time?


so, at 1st we would fight,then make up and be great again. After about 2 years, i felt even though we made up after fights there was a distance between us. But he did say he loves me,sex was great etc. Then this time there was no fight but he was acting more distant that is why i asked him.. We both are not from USA. But even in our culture it is not normal to visit for 1 month.
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## finding-a-path

what is very sad is he could have told me on May 1st that 'im upset because you said wait two months till exam is over' but he kept saying only part of the truth till may 23rd. He just said i love you less coz of fights.sure.that is the reason for distance.but the reason for his anger was this problem. He should have told that when i asked. And,i feel so hurt that he did not want to support me in passing the exam. I always thought MY HUSBAND HAS MY BACK.he will support and protect.now its like he doesnt care if i pass.
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## finding-a-path

when i explained to his mother that i said to tell her to come after exam she shouted at me saying it is your house so you are telling me not to come. -the house is in my name- i told her no, it is OUR house. My husband's and mine.and we both shall be ok with hosting anyone. Then she said 'if the house is his,why should he ask you' now only i know what value she has for my feelings. And i think if she comes and i wanted to study,she would start a fight saying you are telling to turn off tv because it is ur house etc.im afraid of it.
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## NextTimeAround

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I could have had 4.0 gpa and got an award, but instead one term I drove 120 miles round trip to a hospital to sit in ICU ward with my boyfriend. I did this for three months, there was only one day I didn't go and that was when I thought his family was coming for a holiday (they didn't.)
> 
> You have your whole life ahead of you. Surely a short part of it could be less than ideal? If your mother is stressed, her health will be even worse, how can you study not knowing if she is okay?


Oh yes, of course, would you have even mentioned your GPA had you only had a shot at getting a 3.0 or less even.

I would not even pretend to assume that everyone has a shot at a perfect score under every adverse condition.

Education / training / whatever is not cheap. More and more people are paying out of pocket. I worked for a big corporate that would not reimburse employees if they did not get a high enough grade. and since most schools grade on the curve anyway........

Please tell me what institution gives refunds when you don't like the grade that you got.

The OP identified what her needs were. They were not indefinite. And the results would ultimately benefit both her and her husband and well, her MIL as well.

I don't think the OP should be put down for identifying and ringfencing her short term needs.


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## Omego

breeze said:


> This might sound a little cynical, but this is from my own observations:
> 
> 1) Don't ever assume a MIL actually loves or cares about you. Even if they say it, or believe it for a time, unless they actually consider the feelings of the S/DIL, it's all just make believe.


Yes, she is manipulating your H and trying to come between you. Once you have accepted this fact, you'll have to proceed accordingly. As she has been successful at this so far, your H is distancing himself from you. Your marriage is at risk.

I think you should still remain firm. It's your house as well, and long-term invitations should be a joint decision. If you give in, apologize, and say she can come over, she'll run your house, your life and your marriage. 

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. Don't worry about standing up for yourself. If your H is worth it, he will come around and back you up.


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## livnlearn

You are stuck on the comment your husband made about loving you less because of fights. I am sure you beg and plead with him.."please don't be mad"..."why don't you love me as much as I love you?".... He enjoys the fact that you feel insecure. He enjoys the fact that he can control you. He enjoys how it feels having you grovel for his love while he denies you of it. He is not a nice man. Please know that you deserve so much better.


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## Miss Taken

After reading more information on your other thread, combined with this one I would say that you are NOT the problem. 

Saying he loves you less because of fights is just his way to skirt around the real issues here. HE is the real problem here. It has nothing to do with you but you are adopting his issues by blaming yourself and desperately trying to get love back from a man that doesn't really know how to give it.

It sounds like a couple of problems:

He has bi-polar disorder. You said he worked on it and he is cured now. That's not possible. There is no cure, just management of such a disorder.

He acts passive aggressive: he gives the silent treatment after fights, he withdraws intimacy, affection, loving behaviour, speaks to you in an angry tone of voice for days after a "fight" (which actually are quite trivial). What's more, he instigates these fights. Talking for lengthy periods in the middle of watching a movie together is inconsiderate. Anyone would be annoyed by that. Accepting a month-long visit from your MIL without asking you first is also inconsiderate. Then he took the coward's way out, blaming you to his mother and causing a riff between you by saying you don't want her there because of exams.

He is constantly doing minor things that anyone with common sense would find annoying. You gently confront him on it and then he acts out passive aggressively - sulking, withdrawing, stonewalling etc. until you have to apologize to HIM. Even though he is the one that caused the problem. What's worse is his bad behaviours don't stop and the problems aren't resolved.

He seems very adverse to any criticism from you and seems to feel he is above reprimand for his inconsiderate behaviour. It sounds like he has issues with feeling like he is being controlled (looking at his mother's behaviour it makes sense) and is projecting that onto you.

This is very controlling. It's a covert, vs. overt way to control and manipulate someone. He knows that you will be the one who is upset by his withdrawal, he knows you have a strong desire to feel loved by him and that his actions make you feel insecure and so he uses this as a way to knock you off balance, so he can't ever be responsible for his behaviour.

*My question to you: * When do these fights tend to occur? What I mean is that, it seems to me that he is most inconsiderate - (takes a phone call in the middle of a movie you're trying to watch together) during times of closeness.

To me it seems like your husband is intimacy avoidant/has attachment issues. So any time you try to get close, he sabotages it by doing something that would cause a fight. Then he can use the fight as an excuse to withdraw from you and make you feel like you're the one to blame.


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## EnjoliWoman

Miss Taken has made some important points. I realize fighting can lessen love and many counselors agree that it takes 10 positive interactions (not just neutral) to overcome one negative one. But this seems much more than making happy memories to overcome any unhappy ones.

I think if there is any hope for this whole situation, you need to get to marriage counseling. He has to understand that you two have to work together and he can't overreact or act impulsively.

Had he simply asked you, you could have stated your wishes to wait two months or perhaps BOTH talked with your MIL over speaker phone or skype and mentioned that you want to do well on your test but need quiet and could she wait two months or would she be OK if you purchased a nice, comfortable set of headphones to wear when watching TV. (They make wireless headsets)

This wasn't a huge problem but it blew out of proportion because of your husband - also know that if he has BPD, it is often inherited and your MIL might also be doing the same thing. Perhaps she wanted your love, feels rejected and is now reacting in a similar way as your husband.

A counselor can help you learn the best way to cope with her and your husband but your husband has to be on board and understand his disorder. Many do just fine once they are more self-aware. Others who don't work as hard or have more severe forms constantly undermine all of their relationships.

I know one of these - daughter of a friend who was diagnosed - every time she goes off her medication, she goes through a period of anger, violence, pushes away whatever man she's in a relationship and ends up divorcing. Pretty soon she gets it together, goes back on her meds for a while, meets someone and the cycle starts all over. She's on husband number five and not quite 40. Her mother has to distance herself and has learned to cope.

Best of luck - the starting point is counseling and if he isn't willing you will need to cut your losses and leave.


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## NextTimeAround

> Miss Taken has made some important points. I realize fighting can lessen love and many counselors agree that it takes 10 positive interactions (not just neutral) to overcome one negative one. But this seems much more than making happy memories to overcome any unhappy ones.


I thought there are times when standing up for yourself (which can cause an argument) can deepen your partner's respect for you.

IT would be interesting to examine the differences.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> so, at 1st we would fight,then make up and be great again. After about 2 years, i felt even though we made up after fights there was a distance between us. But he did say he loves me,sex was great etc. Then this time there was no fight but he was acting more distant that is why i asked him.. We both are not from USA. But even in our culture it is not normal to visit for 1 month.


In case you haven't figured it out yet, one of the absolute WORST things you can do to a man is fight with him. Men's #2 need is usually admiration. Fighting tells him you don't respect him or admire him; so he retreats. It's a typical psychological response for a man. 

It sounds to me like you fight a LOT. If that is true, half of this is on you. Unless he's actually controlling or abusive, as someone has alluded to. If so, ignore me. Educate yourself on bipolar and passive aggressive and learn to mitigate it.

If not, if you want to save this marriage, you need to do a lot of reading and thinking and rearranging your priorities. You CAN get what you need in a marriage without fighting. 

Along with the admiration goes the feeling that a man's wife is on his side. Now I know you see it as him betraying you or something but, honestly, with that kind of mother, it's obvious he has serious FOO issues with dealing with his mother; it would behoove you to take a look at that and try to understand this from his side. He was between two rocks. Should he have asked you? Of course. But he feared her response if he said no as much as he feared your response (maybe more), so he said yes. Try to remember that.

Treating this as you and him being in opposite corners of the boxing ring will solve NOTHING. Unless you want to get divorced. He's told you very plainly (thank goodness!) that you are making him unhappy. What are you willing to do about it?

I suggest starting by reading His Needs Her Needs. Come back after and let me know what you think.


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## Livvie

turnera said:


> In case you haven't figured it out yet, one of the absolute WORST things you can do to a man is fight with him. Men's #2 need is usually admiration. Fighting tells him you don't respect him or admire him; so he retreats. It's a typical psychological response for a man.
> 
> It sounds to me like you fight a LOT. If that is true, half of this is on you. Unless he's actually controlling or abusive, as someone has alluded to. If so, ignore me. Educate yourself on bipolar and passive aggressive and learn to mitigate it.
> 
> If not, if you want to save this marriage, you need to do a lot of reading and thinking and rearranging your priorities. You CAN get what you need in a marriage without fighting.
> 
> Along with the admiration goes the feeling that a man's wife is on his side. Now I know you see it as him betraying you or something but, honestly, with that kind of mother, it's obvious he has serious FOO issues with dealing with his mother; it would behoove you to take a look at that and try to understand this from his side. He was between two rocks. Should he have asked you? Of course. But he feared her response if he said no as much as he feared your response (maybe more), so he said yes. Try to remember that.
> 
> Treating this as you and him being in opposite corners of the boxing ring will solve NOTHING. Unless you want to get divorced. He's told you very plainly (thank goodness!) that you are making him unhappy. What are you willing to do about it?
> 
> I suggest starting by reading His Needs Her Needs. Come back after and let me know what you think.


I may be wrong!...but my impression after reading her threads is that what her husband calls a "fight" is really just her speaking up in a reasonable way about something that has occurred that bothers her (he seems to be ignoring and impolite)...you shouldn't have to lose yourself, never mention things that bother you/tolerate behavior in a partner that feels bad and walk on eggshells because someone else can't deal with it. That seems like enabling crappy treatment from a partner...


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## finding-a-path

Omego said:


> Yes, she is manipulating your H and trying to come between you. Once you have accepted this fact, you'll have to proceed accordingly. As she has been successful at this so far, your H is distancing himself from you. Your marriage is at risk.
> 
> I think you should still remain firm. It's your house as well, and long-term invitations should be a joint decision. If you give in, apologize, and say she can come over, she'll run your house, your life and your marriage. i am not going to apologize as i did not do anything wrong. i simply asked for two months. i think it will be nice if she says that it won't happen again. i do want to connect with her.she has been in my life for 7 years. but i also decided that i dont have to apologize for asking for 2 months.
> 
> I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. Don't worry about standing up for yourself. If your H is worth it, he will come around and back you up.


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## finding-a-path

livnlearn said:


> You are stuck on the comment your husband made about loving you less because of fights. I am sure you beg and plead with him.."please don't be mad"..."why don't you love me as much as I love you?".... He enjoys the fact that you feel insecure. He enjoys the fact that he can control you. He enjoys how it feels having you grovel for his love while he denies you of it. He is not a nice man. Please know that you deserve so much better.


i have stopped asking do you love me etc. since the past 6 or so days. completely stopped.


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## finding-a-path

Miss Taken said:


> After reading more information on your other thread, combined with this one I would say that you are NOT the problem.
> 
> Saying he loves you less because of fights is just his way to skirt around the real issues here. HE is the real problem here. It has nothing to do with you but you are adopting his issues by blaming yourself and desperately trying to get love back from a man that doesn't really know how to give it.
> 
> It sounds like a couple of problems:
> 
> He has bi-polar disorder. You said he worked on it and he is cured now. That's not possible. There is no cure, just management of such a disorder.
> 
> He acts passive aggressive: he gives the silent treatment after fights, he withdraws intimacy, affection, loving behaviour, speaks to you in an angry tone of voice for days after a "fight" (which actually are quite trivial). What's more, he instigates these fights. Talking for lengthy periods in the middle of watching a movie together is inconsiderate. Anyone would be annoyed by that. Accepting a month-long visit from your MIL without asking you first is also inconsiderate. Then he took the coward's way out, blaming you to his mother and causing a riff between you by saying you don't want her there because of exams.
> 
> He is constantly doing minor things that anyone with common sense would find annoying. You gently confront him on it and then he acts out passive aggressively - sulking, withdrawing, stonewalling etc. until you have to apologize to HIM. Even though he is the one that caused the problem. What's worse is his bad behaviours don't stop and the problems aren't resolved.
> 
> He seems very adverse to any criticism from you and seems to feel he is above reprimand for his inconsiderate behaviour. It sounds like he has issues with feeling like he is being controlled (looking at his mother's behaviour it makes sense) and is projecting that onto you.
> 
> This is very controlling. It's a covert, vs. overt way to control and manipulate someone. He knows that you will be the one who is upset by his withdrawal, he knows you have a strong desire to feel loved by him and that his actions make you feel insecure and so he uses this as a way to knock you off balance, so he can't ever be responsible for his behaviour.
> 
> *My question to you: * When do these fights tend to occur? What I mean is that, it seems to me that he is most inconsiderate - (takes a phone call in the middle of a movie you're trying to watch together) during times of closeness.
> 
> To me it seems like your husband is intimacy avoidant/has attachment issues. So any time you try to get close, he sabotages it by doing something that would cause a fight. Then he can use the fight as an excuse to withdraw from you and make you feel like you're the one to blame.


your reply made me think and it makes a lot of sense. fights happen when we are close and when we are just doing normal household things... i would say it is 60/40. 60% happening at times of closeness


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## finding-a-path

EnjoliWoman said:


> Miss Taken has made some important points. I realize fighting can lessen love and many counselors agree that it takes 10 positive interactions (not just neutral) to overcome one negative one. But this seems much more than making happy memories to overcome any unhappy ones.
> 
> I think if there is any hope for this whole situation, you need to get to marriage counseling. He has to understand that you two have to work together and he can't overreact or act impulsively.
> 
> Had he simply asked you, you could have stated your wishes to wait two months or perhaps BOTH talked with your MIL over speaker phone or skype and mentioned that you want to do well on your test but need quiet and could she wait two months or would she be OK if you purchased a nice, comfortable set of headphones to wear when watching TV. (They make wireless headsets)
> 
> This wasn't a huge problem but it blew out of proportion because of your husband - also know that if he has BPD, it is often inherited and your MIL might also be doing the same thing. Perhaps she wanted your love, feels rejected and is now reacting in a similar way as your husband.
> 
> A counselor can help you learn the best way to cope with her and your husband but your husband has to be on board and understand his disorder. Many do just fine once they are more self-aware. Others who don't work as hard or have more severe forms constantly undermine all of their relationships.
> 
> I know one of these - daughter of a friend who was diagnosed - every time she goes off her medication, she goes through a period of anger, violence, pushes away whatever man she's in a relationship and ends up divorcing. Pretty soon she gets it together, goes back on her meds for a while, meets someone and the cycle starts all over. She's on husband number five and not quite 40. Her mother has to distance herself and has learned to cope.
> 
> Best of luck - the starting point is counseling and if he isn't willing you will need to cut your losses and leave.


I am thinking of individual counseling for me,because he would not go


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## krika

first him not asking you, then uses his love against you?
wow.
i would be so furious. not accept her moving in before she apoligised. if she did, i would accept her staying there, but with headphones when watching tv all day. i would also put some restirictions on her, since she seems incapable of other than using situatons and people against eachother to get her will, that she must do what is required of her to get her cholesterol back to normal values. do exercises and dietary changes and so on, preferable everyday.

put her on a plan for her own wellbeing!

How to Reduce High Cholesterol With Exercise - High Cholesterol Center - EverydayHealth.com

when this is the final excuse they use for her to pressure herself into your home for such a long time and making you question everything, i believe it show that you care about her wellbeing and wish to see her healthy, happy and back to her own home asap as a normal strong and independent 58 yr old


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> In case you haven't figured it out yet, one of the absolute WORST things you can do to a man is fight with him. Men's #2 need is usually admiration. Fighting tells him you don't respect him or admire him; so he retreats. It's a typical psychological response for a man. i have understood that after reading replies to my other thread...
> 
> It sounds to me like you fight a LOT. If that is true, half of this is on you. Unless he's actually controlling or abusive, as someone has alluded to. If so, ignore me. Educate yourself on bipolar and passive aggressive and learn to mitigate it.we dont fight a lot. major fights happen once in 6 months or so. but, i admit i do tell him why didn't you call etc a lot in between the big fights
> 
> If not, if you want to save this marriage, you need to do a lot of reading and thinking and rearranging your priorities. You CAN get what you need in a marriage without fighting.
> 
> Along with the admiration goes the feeling that a man's wife is on his side. Now I know you see it as him betraying you or something but, honestly, with that kind of mother, it's obvious he has serious FOO issues with dealing with his mother; it would behoove you to take a look at that and try to understand this from his side. He was between two rocks. Should he have asked you? Of course. But he feared her response if he said no as much as he feared your response (maybe more), so he said yes. Try to remember that.what is FOO? please explain?
> 
> Treating this as you and him being in opposite corners of the boxing ring will solve NOTHING. Unless you want to get divorced. He's told you very plainly (thank goodness!) that you are making him unhappy. What are you willing to do about it?yes i want us to be a team.but him saying yes without asking from me has made me think that he does not think of us as a team..
> 
> I suggest starting by reading His Needs Her Needs. Come back after and let me know what you think.


i did read it...


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## Miss Taken

FOO = family of origin. (His childhood, the family he grew up with etc.)


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## Miss Taken

finding-a-path said:


> your reply made me think and it makes a lot of sense. fights happen when we are close and when we are just doing normal household things... i would say it is 60/40. 60% happening at times of closeness


This is telling to me of fear of intimacy/intimacy avoidance.

As soon as things are feeling close together, the relationship is on an even keel or things were even romantic and lovey/dovey it's sabotaged by conflict. 

They do something inconsiderate, say something mean, dig up the past or instigate a fight. Howe

These people are afraid of closeness. They don't want to become emotionally dependent on you or emotionally attached so the second things are going well or feeling intimate, they get scared and subtly instigate a conflict to create distance or blindside you with one during a happy moment to create a fight. 

The tricky part is, they're master's of making YOU look at fault so you never catch on to what's happening. You become the bad guy and start seeking out ways to fix yourself as you'll start to believe that the problems are all or mostly all of your fault. It's very convenient for them because they never have to look at themselves or grow as the focus is always on you as the problem.

On the contrary, when YOU are the one to withdraw and stop chasing them, then they start pursuing you. Once you act disinterested, they become affectionate, attentive, complimentary and loving etc. to reel you back in.

However, this is just another part of the dance. This is the dance of push and pull. They push you away and once you're away, they reel you back in. Once you're too close they push you away again and the cycle repeats itself.


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## DoF

OP, the issue you need to focus on is NOT the exam BUT the fact that your husband accepted/invited his mother WITHOUT consulting you.

This is what you should've said to your mother in law when she called.

And YES, she is being COMPLETELY unreasonable and with an attitude like that I would've just hung up and took her up on it.

What kind of an adult acts like that? Not an adult I would want at my house for even a DAY.....forget about a month.

Screw that.

Take it up with your husband. Ask him how he would feel if you invited someone for a month.

This is unacceptable, disrespectful and inconsiderate towards you. You SHOULD have a problem with it!!! I would.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i did read it...


so what are his top 5 ENs? What are your top 3 Love Busters that you do? Have you changed to meet the 5 ENs and eliminate the 3 LBs?


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## turnera

> yes i want us to be a team.but him saying yes without asking from me has made me think that he does not think of us as a team..


So you need to ask yourself: Is that just because he's a jerk or bipolar or abusive? Or is it because he feels wounded by YOU and has retreated to his corner and no longer feels safe with you?

I have no idea, I'm not there. But YOU need to figure out the truth; if you don't, you'll never figure out the right steps to address it.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> so what are his top 5 ENs? What are your top 3 Love Busters that you do? Have you changed to meet the 5 ENs and eliminate the 3 LBs?


do you mean from the list of 10 needs at the end of the book? I do not know..but i do remember the chapters.admiring,peace at home, sex, attractive wife etc.i should read it again i guess..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Miss Taken said:


> This is telling to me of fear of intimacy/intimacy avoidance.
> 
> As soon as things are feeling close together, the relationship is on an even keel or things were even romantic and lovey/dovey it's sabotaged by conflict.
> 
> They do something inconsiderate, say something mean, dig up the past or instigate a fight. Howe
> 
> These people are afraid of closeness. They don't want to become emotionally dependent on you or emotionally attached so the second things are going well or feeling intimate, they get scared and subtly instigate a conflict to create distance or blindside you with one during a happy moment to create a fight.
> 
> The tricky part is, they're master's of making YOU look at fault so you never catch on to what's happening. You become the bad guy and start seeking out ways to fix yourself as you'll start to believe that the problems are all or mostly all of your fault. It's very convenient for them because they never have to look at themselves or grow as the focus is always on you as the problem.
> 
> On the contrary, when YOU are the one to withdraw and stop chasing them, then they start pursuing you. Once you act disinterested, they become affectionate, attentive, complimentary and loving etc. to reel you back in.
> 
> However, this is just another part of the dance. This is the dance of push and pull. They push you away and once you're away, they reel you back in. Once you're too close they push you away again and the cycle repeats itself.


You are correct.he does dislike being attached coz he gets hurt if he is attached.
And yes the part about me end up saying sorry is true too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Again, assuming he's not abusive (as he will use that stuff against you), you need to know his top ENs and your top LoveBusters that you do that make him unhappy. Basically, it's like a bucket: every LB you do that makes him unhappy pokes a hole in the bucket. Every time you meet an EN for him, it fills a little 'love' for you in his bucket. But if you've poked enough holes in that bucket, if he has a general feeling of unhappiness when he thinks of you because you Love Bust him so much, it doesn't matter HOW hard you try to meet his ENs - they'll just flow right on out of all those holes you've poked. His love(bucket) for you will never be filled.

It works both ways, of course. But you can't make him want to reciprocate. Now, you CAN work really hard to meet his ENs and avoid those LBs and he should become so happy with you and so in love with you and look forward to being with you so much that he WANTS to meet your ENs and avoid all LBS to you. 

One of you has to go first. You've done the learning; it will need to be you.

Again, this is barring psychological issues on his part.


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## finding-a-path

DoF said:


> OP, the issue you need to focus on is NOT the exam BUT the fact that your husband accepted/invited his mother WITHOUT consulting you.
> 
> This is what you should've said to your mother in law when she called.
> 
> And YES, she is being COMPLETELY unreasonable and with an attitude like that I would've just hung up and took her up on it.
> 
> What kind of an adult acts like that? Not an adult I would want at my house for even a DAY.....forget about a month.
> 
> Screw that.
> 
> Take it up with your husband. Ask him how he would feel if you invited someone for a month.
> 
> This is unacceptable, disrespectful and inconsiderate towards you. You SHOULD have a problem with it!!! I would.


yes.it was bad that he said yes without discussing.so i am the 1 who should be angry with him.but im ready to let go and he is angry with me.funny how it all became MY Fault.i asked what if i said ok to my mother without asking him. he said he would be ok. But i dont think so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> You are correct. He does dislike being attached coz he gets hurt if he is attached.
> And yes the part about me end up saying sorry is true too.


You can rise above this, though. You can be smarter and overcome FOO issues and stay calm, loving, and resilient. By not engaging in the tit-for-tat, refusing to argue, stating your case and letting go of the outcome, not getting roped into a power struggle, and above all, showing him your love isn't going anywhere, no matter how hard he tries to make it on you. He doesn't trust you to be safe, since no one else has been; prove him wrong, and he may come to feel safe with you and let down his guard and put away the games he plays with everyone else. You may become the one true good thing in his life. It just needs to start with you. Therapy can help a lot with that, with giving you safe responses to his zingers.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> Yes. It was bad that he said yes without discussing. So I am the 1 who should be angry with him. But I'm ready to let go and he is angry with me. Funny how it all became MY Fault. I asked what if I said ok to my mother without asking him. He said he would be ok. But I don't think so.[/size]


It doesn't matter. Move forward and reward him on the times he DOES come to you first. Teach him a better response. A power struggle only begets more power struggles. You're supposed to be on the same team.


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## DoF

finding-a-path said:


> yes.it was bad that he said yes without discussing.so i am the 1 who should be angry with him.but *im ready to let go* and he is angry with me.funny how it all became MY Fault.i asked what if i said ok to my mother without asking him. he said he would be ok. But i dont think so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should NOT be ready to let go unless 
a) he apologizes to you for making this decision without you and tells you that it won't happen again
b) he calls his mom and explains to her how big of a jerk he has been
c) asks his mom to not treat you this way in the future as this was HIS fault and not yours

It became "your fault" because you allowed it and there was NO consequences behind his actions.

I would also go over boundaries/rules on the subject.

Both of you should be making a decision when it comes to ANYONE living with you. Living with other people (I don't care if it's family/friend etc) is a HUGE life change. And in time it effects relationships (with those people that move in) AND your marriage.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

finding-a-path said:


> (she is only 58.i do not think she is that old maybe i am wrong)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To someone who is 58 and in poor health and alone, that is old enough to fear death. Mother is over-reacting, sure, and husband is also acting out of fear of possible lifelong guilt if something does happen to her (and if she's stressed out and in bad health, that possibility increases.) OP is rational, but unfortunately rational doesn't fly when it comes to humans, only to theory.

If it were me I would apoligize to Mother, s*ck it up, and hope that I will never end up like her. 

Maybe is a chance to get Mother out for walks and activities and eating healthy, and enjoying life again.


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## loveadvice

Tough situation.

His mom is the one who took care of him when he was a little boy.

He is feeling pressure and guilt about not letting her stay at your place.

He is feeling anger and resentment at you for not letting him give his mom a place to stay.

I'm sorry about that. He's between a rock and hard place.

Ideally, his mom would not act the way she's acting and consider your interests. 

Ideally, your husband would take your side and try to persuade his mom.

Sometimes, things are not ideal.

What can you do about it? 

Should you insist on being right?

Depends on how important this battle is in the large scheme of things. 

Maybe you can go to the library to study?? Your husband would see how sweet you are to do something that you didn't want to do so that you are lessening his burden.


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## Qur

Everyone is pretty much jumping on your husband for the issue with your MIL. However, that is not going to help your marriage one bit. It appears that your MIL and your husband both believe that she should be able to visit or stay before and after your exam. The right or wrong of this matter is irrelevant. But yes, he was wrong to invite her to stay without discussing it with you. Without question. But, he did bring the matter to you the second time (learned from his mistake). When he told you about her poor health, he was hoping your would change your mind/ position regarding when she could come. You did not. What he may have heard from your words is, “After my exam, you can look after your mother”.


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## DoF

Qur said:


> Everyone is pretty much jumping on your husband for the issue with your MIL. However, that is not going to help your marriage one bit. It appears that your MIL and your husband both believe that she should be able to visit or stay before and after your exam. The right or wrong of this matter is irrelevant. But yes, he was wrong to invite her to stay without discussing it with you. Without question. But, he did bring the matter to you the second time (learned from his mistake). When he told you about her poor health, he was hoping your would change your mind/ position regarding when she could come. You did not. What he may have heard from your words is, “After my exam, you can look after your mother”.


Her poor health is a consequence of her own neglect within her lifestyle.

I can understand if she lived a happy lifestyle etc, but that's not the case.

Why should he or OP take the burden of her own faults???

if a person is not willing to help themselves, no one can ever help them. Sorry


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## turnera

So your solution is...what? Damn the torpedoes, DEMAND respect, trash him for daring to be wrong, and hold off all affection until he comes begging?

Great marriage you're building there.


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## Miss Taken

Sorry,

Didn't mean to post that earlier.

I was going to say, contrarily, to the point that everyone is blaming H and her MIL. Read her other threads about this issue and it paints a clearer picture.

In her how to fall back in love thread, I said put a pause on the fighting for now, figure out his needs by reading his needs/her needs and the five love languages. I very much thought she was more accountable than H at that point.

However, after reading that thread, this thread and her other one about how her husband says he loves her less after each thread - that's when I came to the conclusions I did.

Her H sounds manipulative and intimacy avoidant. He has also said he refuses to go to counseling to address any of his issues. He comes off as innocent in all of this but I think there is more to it than that.


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## AliceA

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> To someone who is 58 and in poor health and alone, that is old enough to fear death. Mother is over-reacting, sure, and husband is also acting out of fear of possible lifelong guilt if something does happen to her (and if she's stressed out and in bad health, that possibility increases.) OP is rational, but unfortunately rational doesn't fly when it comes to humans, only to theory.
> 
> If it were me I would apoligize to Mother, s*ck it up, and hope that I will never end up like her.
> 
> Maybe is a chance to get Mother out for walks and activities and eating healthy, and enjoying life again.


From what I've seen, when you give such a person the idea that if they yell at you and insult you, you will come to them with your tail between your legs and give them what they want, you regret it a thousand times over later on.

That said, if she hadn't been so terrible to you as soon as she didn't get what she wanted, I would agree with some advice that you could study at a library or something so that your husband could look after his mother. Now that she has shown her true colours though, ugh, who the hell would want such a vicious piece of work staying at their home while dealing with some pretty heavy duty stress already? Sounds like a breakdown in the making to me.


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## frusdil

breeze said:


> That said, if she hadn't been so terrible to you as soon as she didn't get what she wanted, I would agree with some advice that you could study at a library or something so that your husband could look after his mother. Now that she has shown her true colours though, ugh, who the hell would want such a vicious piece of work staying at their home while dealing with some pretty heavy duty stress already? Sounds like a breakdown in the making to me.


Ditto. 

There were lots of ways to come back from this until MIL threw a tantrum.

If this were me, she would not be coming to our house again until she apologised directly to me - not through hubby.

It doesn't matter why they do it, only that they do it. Bipolar, BPD, NPD get thrown around here all the time. Some people are just jacka rses. Plenty of bipolar people don't behave this way.


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## turnera

I never said he was innocent. I just said you won't get the marriage you want by butting heads. Participating in fights won't get you what you want.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> So you need to ask yourself: Is that just because he's a jerk or bipolar or abusive? Or is it because he feels wounded by YOU and has retreated to his corner and no longer feels safe with you?
> 
> I have no idea, I'm not there. But YOU need to figure out the truth; if you don't, you'll never figure out the right steps to address it.


i think it is because he feels hurt by me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You can rise above this, though. You can be smarter and overcome FOO issues and stay calm, loving, and resilient. By not engaging in the tit-for-tat, refusing to argue, stating your case and letting go of the outcome, not getting roped into a power struggle, and above all, showing him your love isn't going anywhere, no matter how hard he tries to make it on you. He doesn't trust you to be safe, since no one else has been; prove him wrong, and he may come to feel safe with you and let down his guard and put away the games he plays with everyone else. You may become the one true good thing in his life. It just needs to start with you. Therapy can help a lot with that, with giving you safe responses to his zingers.


i was the one 
true good thing in his life. Sadly, the fights have made him feel he is not safe with me too and he has retreated in to a shell,not showing emotions,behaving like he does not care etc.
I will take this to heart.i decided not to fight after i started my 1st thread. the problem is even without a fight he felt hurt when i said wait two months..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> To someone who is 58 and in poor health and alone, that is old enough to fear death. Mother is over-reacting, sure, and husband is also acting out of fear of possible lifelong guilt if something does happen to her (and if she's stressed out and in bad health, that possibility increases.) OP is rational, but unfortunately rational doesn't fly when it comes to humans, only to theory.
> 
> If it were me I would apoligize to Mother, s*ck it up, and hope that I will never end up like her.
> 
> Maybe is a chance to get Mother out for walks and activities and eating healthy, and enjoying life again.


he must be fearing the guilt.yes,that i do understand. I will never say sorry to her because i didnt do anything wrong. I simply told my husband to ask her to come after two months so that i could study in peace in the 1st part of this.and then in the 2nd part, after knowing that she is sick,i again asked for two months. She cant yell at me for that. No1 can yell and force me.she did that.so she needs to offer the olive branch. If i do, she will assume she can yell for anything and i will go back to her everytime,wanting to be friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

loveadvice said:


> Tough situation.
> 
> His mom is the one who took care of him when he was a little boy.
> 
> He is feeling pressure and guilt about not letting her stay at your place.
> 
> He is feeling anger and resentment at you for not letting him give his mom a place to stay.
> 
> I'm sorry about that. He's between a rock and hard place.
> 
> Ideally, his mom would not act the way she's acting and consider your interests.
> 
> Ideally, your husband would take your side and try to persuade his mom.
> 
> Sometimes, things are not ideal.
> 
> What can you do about it?
> 
> Should you insist on being right?
> 
> Depends on how important this battle is in the large scheme of things.
> 
> Maybe you can go to the library to study?? Your husband would see how sweet you are to do something that you didn't want to do so that you are lessening his burden.


you describe it point by point and your points are spot on. This forum has so many wonderful people who have helped so much. library is not an option. We dont have one nearby..and honestly i just want to study at home. It is what i find comfortable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

breeze said:


> From what I've seen, when you give such a person the idea that if they yell at you and insult you, you will come to them with your tail between your legs and give them what they want, you regret it a thousand times over later on.
> 
> That said, if she hadn't been so terrible to you as soon as she didn't get what she wanted, I would agree with some advice that you could study at a library or something so that your husband could look after his mother. Now that she has shown her true colours though, ugh, who the hell would want such a vicious piece of work staying at their home while dealing with some pretty heavy duty stress already? Sounds like a breakdown in the making to me.


yes.if she just said ok i will visit you later when i asked for 2 months when she wanted to visit for a month, then when my husband said she is sick can we take her in? I would have said ok. But she said 'its ur house so u r not letting me come' etc.so i knew if she came and i said turn off tv so that i can study,she would have created a problem saying its ur house so u r saying me to turn off tv. That is why i said wait two months when my husband asked after knowing she is sick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

today, i asked my husband 'u always discuss with me and we decide things together.but when your mother asked to visit for a month,u said ok without discussing with me.why? Did you not think about me? Did you felt helpless not knowing what to do?' he said 'no i thought i had control over what i want to do'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

about the fights, i know he was hurt, then he decided to be distant not to be hurt, he decided not to be attached to me.. I have taken advice from my other thread and this in to serious consideration and have decided not to fight, not to say y u didnt call etc. So i guess with time he would understand that it is safe. Now the thing is him being angry for asking him to wait two months till the exam is over before moving his mother in. Sure,i can be without fighting.but he cant expect me to not express how i feel about something because that too hurts him if the opinions of him and me are different.i can understand if he was upset. But he is angry about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i wish he could just fight and forget and be loving like me, without building resentment and growing distant. But he cant. So i will not fight. But expecting to get his way and being angry and withdrawing love when he couldnt get his way is not going to work.. And his mothers response is too dramatic. She didnt care abt me.or my exam. She wanted to get done 'what she wants,when she wants' but,she wanted to come visit for a month only.its my husband who wanted to take her in after knowing the sickness. She didnt ask. She said the 1st time, (after i said wait till exam is over to visit for a month ) that she would never come to our house again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyTurn

finding,
hi.I live with my wife for 17 years. My in laws live 4 hours drive away.When they visit (usually for medical reasons) they stay with us for about 2 to 4 weeks.My wife never ask/asked for permission so they can stay with us.They always did stay with her even before we got married.
When my mother got ill and my wife found out ,she insisted to my mother to stay with us.I didn't know about this,so when I found out I went to my wife and asked her "why ?"
She answered : she is family.
Also I have to say that my mother and my wife do not get alone well .(my mother said to her that I can do better,much better.)

What I am trying to say is, that some times when family is involved 
and especially a medical reason,no matter what problems you have,you act for the best intrest for that family member.
Thats how my wife sees it and feels it.

FINDING ,I'm not saying that what my wife is doing is right or wrong,
just giving you a different view of things.

I hope everything works out for the best!


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## finding-a-path

the way i feel right now is, 
1)the 1st time, my husband should have discussed this with me coz it affects both of us.
2) had he discussed with me, we would have presented a united front and would have said can u pls visit after the exam?
3) if she felt that it was a joint decision,she would not have attacked me.
4) then when she was sick and my husband asked to move her in,i would have discussed boundries and agreed.
5)now that any of the above did not take place,i think he should understand how the situation went out of control, his and his mothers part in it and what to do next. 
6)he should also understand that he is married and taking care of his wifes needs is important too (in this case,letting me have freedom to study for 2 months)
7)i do want to make amends with her. But i will wait.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

MyTurn said:


> finding,
> hi.I live with my wife for 17 years. My in laws live 4 hours drive away.When they visit (usually for medical reasons) they stay with us for about 2 to 4 weeks.My wife never ask/asked for permission so they can stay with us.They always did stay with her even before we got married.
> When my mother got ill and my wife found out ,she insisted to my mother to stay with us.I didn't know about this,so when I found out I went to my wife and asked her "why ?"
> She answered : she is family.
> Also I have to say that my mother and my wife do not get alone well .(my mother said to her that I can do better,much better.)
> 
> What I am trying to say is, that some times when family is involved
> and especially a medical reason,no matter what problems you have,you act for the best intrest for that family member.
> Thats how my wife sees it and feels it.
> 
> FINDING ,I'm not saying that what my wife is doing is right or wrong,
> just giving you a different view of things.
> 
> I hope everything works out for the best!


1) she did not tell about any medical issue when she said she is coming to stay for a month. So i think when my husband said come after exam,she should not have yelled at me.
2)would your wife have done the same thing if she had an exam coming up in 2 months which would affect her for 30 years?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

so, i can pout and tell him why are you not thinking about what makes me happy (having 2 months of peace to study)and he can pout and say why are you not thinking about what makes ME happy?(moving her in) and this will go on and on. Instead what we need to focus on is agreeing on a compromise. Im going to tell him to move her in after buying a TV for the 1st floor where she will have a room. And im going to discuss boundries. 1st öne being, if the sound of that tv is loud he would have to tell her to turn it off and he would not give in to her if she starts to blame me for it. What else do i have to discuss? (i decided to let him take lead in things related to HIS Mother.if i tell it she will yell at me)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## krika

well, studies comes first in my opinion, when you are at the end of your degree (what it sounds like). it would be a shame to get a bad result in the end of all.
when it comes to his mother, i believe she is highly inconsiderate and unfair. she do not take into consideration others than herself. i see her, of what you have described, as a person who uses other against eachother even, just to get her ways.
if she wore to stay, it would be a good idea to set up an exercise and diet plan for her with a doctor, which she has to follow stricktly, to get in better health.
other than that, i agree with one of the others that you need to set ground rules about when you are studying, she needs to respect this and use headphones to listen to tv. if not, this whole thing can escalate even further and you get pushed out of your own home.

i would be very dissapointed in her for her ways, but i would be extremelly angry at my husband for being so weak and let this escalade to the point were you and you MIL is now in such a situaton.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> the way i feel right now is,
> 1)the 1st time, my husband should have discussed this with me coz it affects both of us.
> 2) had he discussed with me, we would have presented a united front and would have said can u pls visit after the exam?
> 3) if she felt that it was a joint decision,she would not have attacked me.
> 4) then when she was sick and my husband asked to move her in,i would have discussed boundries and agreed.
> 5)now that any of the above did not take place,i think he should understand how the situation went out of control, his and his mothers part in it and what to do next.
> 6)he should also understand that he is married and taking care of his wifes needs is important too (in this case,letting me have freedom to study for 2 months)
> 7)i do want to make amends with her. But i will wait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


path, this is what marriage counseling is for. You're unlikely to solve it without it. Both of you are too entrenched in your corner.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> the problem is even without a fight he felt hurt when i said wait two months.


At this point, what he needs from you is consistent loving but strong behavior. Consistent to see that you will no longer shoot zingers at him so he can be safe. Strong to see that you acknowledge he has needs and rights, too, but you will not be anything but his equal. Teach him to respect you by setting up your boundaries and the consequences that will happen if those boundaries are crossed (in a non-attacking way). It will be good for both of you. If he's not full-on abusive, you have a chance to fix this.

Boundaries in Marriage

Boundaries in Marriage: Understanding the Choices That Make or Break Loving Relationships by Henry Cloud | 9780310243144 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> 1) she did not tell about any medical issue when she said she is coming to stay for a month. So i think when my husband said come after exam,she should not have yelled at me.
> 2)would your wife have done the same thing if she had an exam coming up in 2 months which would affect her for 30 years?


One thing to remember. Your MIL is many years older than you. People of that generation rarely, rarely, looked at their actions and questioned whether they could be taking a different path; the word psychology was a bad word. So we were what we were. You aren't going to change her; she obviously has her OWN demons and all she knows how to do is react to them, yes, in harmful ways like disowning you. 

The most helpful thing for you to do is forgive her; not because she deserves it but because she did all she knows how to do - manipulate and react - and because you WANT this marriage to work out. She is not your core issue; the decision making is. So focus on that.

In the meantime, you can react to her in love and kindness but with healthy boundaries and guess what? She'll learn what those boundaries are, and she'll either respond in a healthy way and you two can go on to have a great relationship and better marriage with her son, or she'll trigger and fight all the way, in which case you'll have to cut her out of your life.

But this is new stuff, so I'll urge you to give it another chance, give her time to learn the new you. You'll almost always have a better result when you act with love and kindness.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> so, i can pout and tell him why are you not thinking about what makes me happy (having 2 months of peace to study)and he can pout and say why are you not thinking about what makes ME happy?(moving her in) and this will go on and on. Instead what we need to focus on is agreeing on a compromise. Im going to tell him to move her in after buying a TV for the 1st floor where she will have a room. And im going to discuss boundries. 1st öne being, if the sound of that tv is loud he would have to tell her to turn it off and he would not give in to her if she starts to blame me for it. What else do i have to discuss? (i decided to let him take lead in things related to HIS Mother.if i tell it she will yell at me)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Try to envision what will need to be done that month while you're studying. Dinner, cleaning, chores, activities. Try to work out with him what the response will be to each one. Maybe write out a list of what you'll need - _for that month_. After that, you can all work things out together.


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## WorkingOnMe

If she stays for too long you're going to have a problem with too many hens in the hen house. And she'll want to be top hen. She'll start taking over everything in your territory.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> the background and lot of info about this issue is in the following thread
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-loves-me-less-after-every-fight-what-do.html
> 
> so, on may 23rd my husband told me the complete reason for saying he loves me less.i have been thinking about it and today i feel i am ready to share..
> 
> on the last week of April, when i was at work my husband called me and told me his mother said she is coming to stay with us for a month and that he said yes. i said "oh why did you said yes without discussing with me" he said it's just a month so he said yes. so i said "how can i study " i have the most important exam of my career coming up and my husband has told me that his mother watches TV all day.and i cant study when im hearing sounds.so he said (in a louder than usual voice) ok ok i ll tell her not to come now.
> 
> after about 2 hours i got a text from his mother. let's call her E.
> It said "im not coming to xxxxxxx with you people coz i now know who you are" (it was a trip we planned to some place) so i called her to explain. without letting me speak she yells "you told me not to come,im not coming there ever, you are not my DIL im not your MIL don't ever come to my house, is exam more important than family" and other stuff for 45 minutes. so i try to explain and when i couldn't i just cut the line.
> 
> after a few days she wanted my husband to go with her to see a doc. doc told them her cholesterol level is twice the normal limit and she has a thinned artery. so my husband said shall we take her in ? i said ok after the exam.he didn't sound happy but he said ok. then i noticed that he didn't talk much, didn't laugh, didn't look at me etc. that's when i asked why are you being like this and he said i love you less after every fight. for weeks he only said that. then i pushed saying 'we didn't even fight recently so why are you doing this" THEN he said because of the recent "problem of mother" all the past fights came in to surface and he feels he loves me less ( because i said wait two months to take in his mother till my exam is over )
> 
> i am completely shocked. i was thinking about this last few days... she blamed me saying so many bad things but he didn't tell her anything about it but when i said wait two months till the exam is over he loves me less for that?:scratchhead:
> 
> i think her blaming me was completely out of line. any rational person would have said "ok you finish the exam i can visit later" but she created a big drama... i have been very hurt by it because i called her "mother" for the last 7 years and treated her as such... it showed me she does not give importance to my exams/job she just wants me to say yes to what she wants,when she wants.and i am sure if it was her son who said "i have an exam come later" she would not have said "you are not my son don't come here" etc
> 
> despite all that i said ok when my husband asked shall we take her in. i just said wait till exam is over. and for that he behaves like this.
> 
> i guess i just wanted to vent. and to get your input about what you think about this situation.
> 
> 
> thank you..


You chose to be responsible with your studies/work. She chose to pitch a narcissistic fit about it. This requires no apology from you.


Your husband should be protecting you and should have told his mother that she was out of line. Your choice to honor your responsibilities of supporting your family through work/education should ALWAYS be supported by your husband. His failure to not support your need to study AND protect you from his mother in no way lies on your shoulders. I would look at him very coldly and tell him "I make no apology for taking responsibility for myself" and I would also coldly tell him "I expect any husband of mine to know where to draw the line in protecting me from his mother when she is out of line and/or to at LEAST support me when I choose to." and walk off calmly... if he presses in shut him down with "I've said all I am going to say about it, I have nothing more to say" and if he still presses in ... "If you cannot leave this subject alone, I will be leaving the premises and will not return until you can leave it alone. I stand on my words." if he continues... leave until he is quiet about it.

Darlin... rest in the truth, let them have their fits, reject the blame, continue your studies and live well. Learn healthy boundaries.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> i wish he could just fight and forget and be loving like me, without building resentment and growing distant. But he cant. So i will not fight. But expecting to get his way and being angry and withdrawing love when he couldnt get his way is not going to work.. And his mothers response is too dramatic. She didnt care abt me.or my exam. She wanted to get done 'what she wants,when she wants' but,she wanted to come visit for a month only.its my husband who wanted to take her in after knowing the sickness. She didnt ask. She said the 1st time, (after i said wait till exam is over to visit for a month ) that she would never come to our house again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your husband and his mother using emotions as weapons is not ok.

www.outofthefog.net

Some people choose poor behaviors in relationships and it helped me tremendously to define them in my home, label them unacceptable and ask for those around me to refrain from those behaviors. When they are used there are consequences.


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## turnera

Blossom Leigh said:


> I would also *lovingly but firmly *tell him "I expect any husband of mine to know where to draw the line in protecting me from his mother when she is out of line and/or to at LEAST support me when I choose to." and walk off calmly... if he presses in shut him down with "I've said all I am going to say about it, I have nothing more to say" and if he still presses in ... "If you cannot leave this subject alone, I will be leaving the premises and will not return until you can leave it alone. I stand on my words." if he continues... leave until he is quiet about it.
> 
> Darlin... rest in the truth, let them have their fits, reject the blame, continue your studies and live well. Learn healthy boundaries.


Fixed it for you. But spot on. THAT is a boundary.


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Fixed it for you. But spot on. THAT is a boundary.


True  Thanks!


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## finding-a-path

krika said:


> well, studies comes first in my opinion, when you are at the end of your degree (what it sounds like). it would be a shame to get a bad result in the end of all.not a degree.this is an exam for promotion at my work. i work in the financial field and if i fail, it would affect my all future promotions. 30 years of misery for me because she couldn't wait two months..
> when it comes to his mother, i believe she is highly inconsiderate and unfair. she do not take into consideration others than herself. i see her, of what you have described, as a person who uses other against eachother even, just to get her ways.
> if she wore to stay, it would be a good idea to set up an exercise and diet plan for her with a doctor, which she has to follow stricktly, to get in better health.yes.plus husband thinks that he would take her in and make her work. so that she is active.but,im not sure if it will workout that way. she is now with her sister.(she had a fight with my brother in law-husbands brother- and moved there) so there is a maid there. and my husband thinks she is not having to do work because of the maid and here she will work.
> other than that, i agree with one of the others that you need to set ground rules about when you are studying, she needs to respect this and use headphones to listen to tv. if not, this whole thing can escalate even further and you get pushed out of your own home.
> 
> i would be very dissapointed in her for her ways, but i would be extremelly angry at my husband for being so weak and let this escalade to the point were you and you MIL is now in such a situaton.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> One thing to remember. Your MIL is many years older than you. People of that generation rarely, rarely, looked at their actions and questioned whether they could be taking a different path; the word psychology was a bad word. So we were what we were. You aren't going to change her; she obviously has her OWN demons and all she knows how to do is react to them, yes, in harmful ways like disowning you.
> 
> The most helpful thing for you to do is forgive her; not because she deserves it but because she did all she knows how to do - manipulate and react - and because you WANT this marriage to work out. She is not your core issue; the decision making is. So focus on that.
> 
> In the meantime, you can react to her in love and kindness but with healthy boundaries and guess what? She'll learn what those boundaries are, and she'll either respond in a healthy way and you two can go on to have a great relationship and better marriage with her son, or she'll trigger and fight all the way, in which case you'll have to cut her out of your life.
> 
> But this is new stuff, so I'll urge you to give it another chance, give her time to learn the new you. You'll almost always have a better result when you act with love and kindness.


i asked my husband what if it was my mother who scolded him. he said he will give one last chance "because she has been ok up to now" so i guess he thinks it will be good if i give his mother a chance..


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## finding-a-path

WorkingOnMe said:


> If she stays for too long you're going to have a problem with too many hens in the hen house. And she'll want to be top hen. She'll start taking over everything in your territory.


that is what i am afraid of. she yelled at me and disowned me for saying come after the exam. so think how she will react when she moves in and i don't want to do what she wants.and i am a private person.and i like the freedom we have to eat,sleep,wake up whenever we want in the weekend. 

i dont want her telling me do that do this or questioning me..


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## waylan

Late to the party here. A couple of points.

Inviting another person into a household is a BIG DEAL. It completely changes the dynamic of home. (Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.) Not asking your spouse about a decision this big is very disrespectful.

Sometimes people just don't get along. My mother and my wife don't get along at all. The last time they were together I literally had to step in to stop a physical alteration. I haven't spoken to my mother since. The way I see it is my wife is my partner in life - as such my loyalty to her needs to be higher then anyone else. If forced to choose then the my decision was clear. I hope they will one day reconcile but until then I've got my wife's back...


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> You chose to be responsible with your studies/work. She chose to pitch a narcissistic fit about it. This requires no apology from you.
> 
> 
> Your husband should be protecting you and should have told his mother that she was out of line. Your choice to honor your responsibilities of supporting your family through work/education should ALWAYS be supported by your husband. His failure to not support your need to study AND protect you from his mother in no way lies on your shoulders. I would look at him very coldly and tell him "I make no apology for taking responsibility for myself" and I would also coldly tell him "I expect any husband of mine to know where to draw the line in protecting me from his mother when she is out of line and/or to at LEAST support me when I choose to." and walk off calmly... if he presses in shut him down with "I've said all I am going to say about it, I have nothing more to say" and if he still presses in ... "If you cannot leave this subject alone, I will be leaving the premises and will not return until you can leave it alone. I stand on my words." if he continues... leave until he is quiet about it.
> 
> Darlin... rest in the truth, let them have their fits, reject the blame, continue your studies and live well. Learn healthy boundaries.


yes that is what hurt me the most.i thought he had my back and he didn't.


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## finding-a-path

waylan said:


> Late to the party here. A couple of points.
> 
> Inviting another person into a household is a BIG DEAL. It completely changes the dynamic of home. (Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.) Not asking your spouse about a decision this big is very disrespectful.
> 
> Sometimes people just don't get along. My mother and my wife don't get along at all. The last time they were together I literally had to step in to stop a physical alteration. I haven't spoken to my mother since. The way I see it is my wife is my partner in life - as such my loyalty to her needs to be higher then anyone else. If forced to choose then the my decision was clear. I hope they will one day reconcile but until then I've got my wife's back...


bravo.you stood up for your wife.that's great i want to add he did ask me the 2nd time, when he wanted to move her in after knowing she is sick. the 1st time when she wanted to stay with us for a month, he didn't ask me then.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> bravo.you stood up for your wife.that's great i want to add he did ask me the 2nd time, when he wanted to move her in after knowing she is sick. the 1st time when she wanted to stay with us for a month, he didn't ask me then.


Which tells me he felt on the spot by her. His brain is hardwired to cater to her, less so to you. People often react instinctively, using those hardwired 'fast' synapses in their brains; mom in my face expecting me to please her...bam, please her. Then...oh no, what will wife think?


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## Blossom Leigh

waylan said:


> Late to the party here. A couple of points.
> 
> Inviting another person into a household is a BIG DEAL. It completely changes the dynamic of home. (Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.) Not asking your spouse about a decision this big is very disrespectful.
> 
> Sometimes people just don't get along. My mother and my wife don't get along at all. The last time they were together I literally had to step in to stop a physical alteration. I haven't spoken to my mother since. The way I see it is my wife is my partner in life - as such my loyalty to her needs to be higher then anyone else. If forced to choose then the my decision was clear. I hope they will one day reconcile but until then I've got my wife's back...


:iagree::iagree::iagree: This above is what you are aiming for...

It sounds like you are learning to respect yourself enough to see disrespect around you finding-a-path... your next step is asking for respect by exercising the boundaries that will cause respect. Don't feel guilt for them, nor apologize for them. I'm cheering you on!!


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## NextTimeAround

My mother had hoped that her mother could live with her and my father for the remaining years of her life. But she was loud, rude, generally unpleasant to my father ( as he of course contemplated how she had said, nearly 50 years ago that he was not good enough for my mother. Funny how my uncle didn't step up to the plate) 

She was also a smoker which my parents are not and she refused to quit. I alter heard from one of my mother's friends that she defiantly smoked in front of my father in HIS home.

So my mother put her in an assisted living community about a 15 minute drive from them.


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## finding-a-path

i don't know why. maybe ego. but he is not accepting that it was wrong to say yes without discussing with me.and when asked do you think it was right that your mother yelled at me his response is "don't know" ideally,i would like him to say sorry i said "yes" knowing it affects you too. and then i would like him to accept that his mother over reacted. 

i also think he was hesitating to tell her that he will discuss it with me in the fear that if he said so she will say are you afraid of your wife or something... i don't know,just a guess.


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## finding-a-path

when he went to doc with her, she has told him that she yelled at me because she was in pain that day... so i have to tolerate being yelled at every time she is in pain? i didn't cause her pain. so i would not tolerate being yelled at.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> when he went to doc with her, she has told him that she yelled at me because she was in pain that day... so i have to tolerate being yelled at every time she is in pain? i didn't cause her pain. so i would not tolerate being yelled at.


He just excused her poor behavior... classic enabling and is wrong. 

Her pain is her pain... it is never an excuse for abuse. Is it understandable that it may make her vulnerable to do so, yes, but it is THEN her responsibility to apologize for her slip up into poor behavior.... NOT YOURS.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> i don't know why. maybe ego. but he is not accepting that it was wrong to say yes without discussing with me.and when asked do you think it was right that your mother yelled at me his response is "don't know" ideally,i would like him to say sorry i said "yes" knowing it affects you too. and then i would like him to accept that his mother over reacted.
> 
> i also think he was hesitating to tell her that he will discuss it with me in the fear that if he said so she will say are you afraid of your wife or something... i don't know,just a guess.


It may take him time to choose the correct priorities... you first, mother second..

This is the part that is troublesome for you guys and until he does that you are going to keep hitting this wall.

He owed you that respect... to include you in that family decision.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i don't know why. maybe ego. but he is not accepting that it was wrong to say yes without discussing with me.and when asked do you think it was right that your mother yelled at me his response is "don't know" ideally,i would like him to say sorry i said "yes" knowing it affects you too. and then i would like him to accept that his mother over reacted.
> 
> i also think he was hesitating to tell her that he will discuss it with me in the fear that if he said so she will say are you afraid of your wife or something... i don't know,just a guess.


Right now, he's not getting the right vibes from the marriage to be able to do this for you. Consider yourself the more enlightened of the two of you and him the Neanderthal; he just feels and acts. You think and learn and grow. Right now, you're still in enemy camp and admitting any such thing to you right now is weak or wrong or harmful. Drop it for now and set about fixing your marriage. That apology will come later.


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## finding-a-path

Please read my other thread. i have updated it with what happened today. he admitted his mother was wrong to yell at me and now there is a new problem to deal with...


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## finding-a-path

sfghsfjsf said:


> despite all that i said ok when my husband asked shall we take her in.


:scratchhead:


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## finding-a-path

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-loves-me-less-after-every-fight-what-do.html i want to request everyone who replied here to read the above thread... please.


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## WorkingOnMe

My first thought is you freaked out over cigarettes and a drink? He's a grown man and you need to figure that out before he dumps you. 

My second thought is it might already be too late. You stir up so much drama, and I don't believe he bought chocolates for a friends kid for one second. Guys just don't do that.


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## finding-a-path

WorkingOnMe said:


> My first thought is you freaked out over cigarettes and a drink? He's a grown man and you need to figure that out before he dumps you.
> 
> My second thought is it might already be too late. You stir up so much drama, and I don't believe he bought chocolates for a friends kid for one second. Guys just don't do that.


no,i am upset because he LIED. He said he is going to a work related thing. And i am upset that he broke 2 PROMISES. before we got married,he promised he wouldnt drink or smoke. So how can he break my trust like that? For now,i am going to think that he is saying the truth about the chocolate. Because if he has another woman,today he had the chance to leave. But, he says he want to stay and see if he can forget that i said i will kill him if he lies. Of course i said this because i was angry. But he wants to hold on to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## krika

well, so he broke some promises, nobody is perfect, what i find disturbing is that he said he went for a work related thing and it had NOTHING to do with work. why wouldnt he tell you the truth? looks like there is deeper issues here than his mom, him smoking and drinking and you try to comit suicide twice.
sounds like a new direction in your marriage with ground rules and a guidline is in order, a fresh start is needed here. too much has happened and it looks to be a lot of unresolved issues from way back. it dosent help to try and kill one self to make the other person listen. you need to figure out what makes you happy and give him som slack aswell, when marriage is not a prison


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> no,i am upset because he LIED. He said he is going to a work related thing. And i am upset that he broke 2 PROMISES. before we got married,he promised he wouldnt drink or smoke. So how can he break my trust like that? For now,i am going to think that he is saying the truth about the chocolate. Because if he has another woman,today he had the chance to leave. But, he says he want to stay and see if he can forget that i said i will kill him if he lies. Of course i said this because i was angry. But he wants to hold on to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You two are TOO messed up. I swear. He drank and smoke because he looks at you and sees someone who is NOT what he thought he was getting when he married. He got a woman who threatens to kill him, who tries to kill herself over VERY MINOR things, who is basically unstable, and who makes him miserable by fighting with him all the time. 

Now, I am NOT letting him off the hook; he lies; he's most likely cheating; he argues all the time and doesn't protect his wife from his mom.

But you aren't giving him much reason to go back to what you two originally agreed to.


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## Miss Independent

I don't know but I would be worried if someone who tried to commit suicide twice says he/she is going to kill me. 

He is wrong and shouldn't have lied, but it's a bit extreme to threaten to kill him because he lied. I think you need help to learn to cope with life and it's difficulties. I don't want to offend you but you are a bit dramatic and needy


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## Miss Taken

You know what?

I don't know what to think of your situation OP. When you first started posting, I thought you were to blame (blame is not the right word) for most of the fighting. Then later, felt like he was being passive aggressive. Now with the new information you just gave, I think a lot more of the responsibility lies in how you react to the conflict. Also, I think he is lying about the chocolates. Kids don't even like that kind of chocolate... that sounds like the kind you'd get for an adult.

I am glad you're in counseling. Although you said earlier that you don't yell and call him names during these fights - the over-dramatic crying, suicide threats/attempts and threatening to kill (yes, I believe it was dramatic/out of anger) are enough to silence MOST people.

I still think that your husband acts passive aggressively but I don't think he feels like he has a voice in this relationship either. Some people are like that by nature, other people act that way because experience has shown them that you are not safe to talk to.


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## finding-a-path

spinsterdurga said:


> I don't know but I would be worried if someone who tried to commit suicide twice says he/she is going to kill me.
> 
> He is wrong and shouldn't have lied, but it's a bit extreme to threaten to kill him because he lied. I think you need help to learn to cope with life and it's difficulties. I don't want to offend you but you are a bit dramatic and needy


i just said it because i was angry. and i said sorry to him..


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## finding-a-path

Miss Taken said:


> You know what?
> 
> I don't know what to think of your situation OP. When you first started posting, I thought you were to blame (blame is not the right word) for most of the fighting. Then later, felt like he was being passive aggressive. Now with the new information you just gave, I think a lot more of the responsibility lies in how you react to the conflict. Also, I think he is lying about the chocolates. Kids don't even like that kind of chocolate... that sounds like the kind you'd get for an adult.he again told me that it was for the kid. he swears . but yes i too feel people dont buy those for kids
> 
> I am glad you're in counseling. Although you said earlier that you don't yell and call him names during these fights - the over-dramatic crying, suicide threats/attempts and threatening to kill (yes, I believe it was dramatic/out of anger) are enough to silence MOST people.
> 
> I still think that your husband acts passive aggressively but I don't think he feels like he has a voice in this relationship either. Some people are like that by nature, other people act that way because experience has shown them that you are not safe to talk to.



i myself don't know what to think of this situation. only thing i am beginning to understand is this is too bad for my health and his health too..


----------



## Openminded

People lie for many reasons. He may be someone who lies just because he can or maybe he lies because he's concerned you will go overboard one day and carry out your threats to kill him or yourself. And telling him you're sorry doesn't erase what was said. 

I'm sympathetic about your MIL situation but the rest of this is way out of bounds.


----------



## Miss Independent

finding-a-path said:


> i just said it because i was angry. and i said sorry to him..



I understand, but I personally wouldn't want to be with someone who threatened to kill me or him (I'm a woman) just because I took a phone call. 

Sorry doesn't erase words or make someone forgets the fear or pain of their so's words


----------



## finding-a-path

spinsterdurga said:


> I understand, but I personally wouldn't want to be with someone who threatened to kill me or him (I'm a woman) just because I took a phone call.
> 
> Sorry doesn't erase words or make someone forgets the fear or pain of their so's words


not because he took a call. but because when i said it disturbed our time together he said i dont want to be with you fin someone else...


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## turnera

Here's the deal. BOTH of you are using dysfunctional methods to deal with each other. Both of you display messed up mindframes. Both of you need therapy.


----------



## Miss Independent

finding-a-path said:


> not because he took a call. but because when i said it disturbed our time together he said i dont want to be with you fin someone else...



I'm sorry but that's not a good enough reason. Turnera is right you and your husband need therapy


----------



## finding-a-path

spinsterdurga said:


> I'm sorry but that's not a good enough reason. Turnera is right you and your husband need therapy



thank you. 1st i am going to apologize to him and then i am going to meet a voluntary counselor. i will be able to update in 11 hours or so. i have lectures today.going to go there, stay till the lunch break and go. my appointment with the other counselor is on 18th but i need to talk with someone before that


----------



## finding-a-path

I went to a counselor today. i told the whole thing, from the beginning.from when we 1st met to yesterday. 

following are the things which we discussed

1) the lady said, i married him knowing his childhood issues(how he grew up without his dad) and so by now i should know that he takes things in to heart more than other people.and that he has been growing up without love and he must be wanting a lot of love to feel safe.

2) then we talked about how he has distanced himself not to get hurt and how i can bring us closer (by SHOWING him that i will not fight for small things and will not attempt suicide or leaving etc) and that when he feels i wont hurt him he will open up again

3)then we talked about me and how bad i feel every time he says "find someone else, i don't love you, let's divorce" and how it has made me stressed and depressed.and how to talk to him and request him to not say that again and say "i am angry" when he is angry.we discussed about my attempts at suicide. i told her that what made me try is was his words.. and she has given me guidelines on what to do if i ever feel like it again and she said hopefully he would not use those words again after i explain to him how they made me feel.


4) next, we discussed about his mother's issue.we talked about how i agreed to moving her in before exam given that he would provide me peace to study and we talked about boundaries too

5)we talked about his lie and drinking and smoking. she said when he feels these issues are solved he will himself get rid of the smoking and drinking and right now he has turned to those because he is stressed and feels there is no one for him.
about the lie, it is already happened now we cant change it, and she told me to ask him to be honest and not hide things in the future.

6)finally, about me saying i will kill him, she asked me how i would feel if he said that... then only i understood what a stupid thing i said. yes he lied. but he apologized and said he would never do it again so i should not have said that. i sent a text to him (he is at work) saying please forgive me.


i told her he said he will have to see for 3 months if he can forget what i said. she said, he is hurt and he loves me. if he did'nt he would not care that much about me saying " i ll kill you"


so, we will see what will happen. please pray for us to succeed.


----------



## AliceA

Good luck finding-a-path. It sounds like you are willing and able to grow and move forward in your marriage. You've made a good start. :smthumbup:


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## turnera

Excellent counselor! She told you the exact same things we did, lol! 

Seriously, though, good plan.


----------



## finding-a-path

breeze said:


> Good luck finding-a-path. It sounds like you are willing and able to grow and move forward in your marriage. You've made a good start. :smthumbup:


thank you so much. i feel my mind is clear. i was beginning to understand the effect of fights on him since i started my other thread. but now i also understand how he must have felt about me trying to suicide too


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Excellent counselor! She told you the exact same things we did, lol!
> 
> Seriously, though, good plan.


yes. all of you have been very supportive and we talked about a lot of things which were said here. and it felt good to just sit and talk. let everything out and cry.. i was there for 2 hours.


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## Stonewall

I don't understand why you would need to take her in just because her cholesterol level is high! This is not a big hairy deal and is easily corrected with todays medication. My MIL is in the same situation and I can tell you flat out that is one thing that will not happen in my home period.

Granted there is a lot of history with my MIL that brings me to that point but I won't go into all that here. Suffice it to say, if my wife made that decision; I would pack my stuff and be gone in the blink of an eye!


----------



## finding-a-path

Stonewall said:


> I don't understand why you would need to take her in just because her cholesterol level is high! This is not a big hairy deal and is easily corrected with todays medication. My MIL is in the same situation and I can tell you flat out that is one thing that will not happen in my home period.
> 
> Granted there is a lot of history with my MIL that brings me to that point but I won't go into all that here. Suffice it to say, if my wife made that decision; I would pack my stuff and be gone in the blink of an eye!


she is living with her sister now and my husband thinks if she is here he can motivate her to eat healthy and do some housework so that she is active and that will help her lose weight...


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> she is living with her sister now and my husband thinks if she is here he can motivate her to eat healthy and do some housework so that she is active and that will help her lose weight...


He will fail epically and wreck his marriage. His mother is a grown woman who has capacity to take care of herself whether she owns that or not. My suspicion is he allows her to guilt him (emotional abuse). He needs therapy to break free from the burden of her helplessness and learn to hold her accountable for her own care. Moving her in is flat out the wrong solution. High cholesterol is no excuse. 

How high is her cholestol?

And what are her other medical conditions that have him afraid of losing her...


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> He will fail epically and wreck his marriage. His mother is a grown woman who has capacity to take care of herself whether she owns that or not. My suspicion is he allows her to guilt him (emotional abuse). He needs therapy to break free from the burden of her helplessness and learn to hold her accountable for her own care. Moving her in is flat out the wrong solution. High cholesterol is no excuse.
> 
> How high is her cholestol?
> 
> And what are her other medical conditions that have him afraid of losing her...


he said that the doc said her cholesterol is double the normal amount. and she has a thinned artery.


----------



## turnera

There's nothing wrong with helping our parents out when they have medical issues or even just get older and need some companionship. What's important is that you establish boundaries and consequences BEFORE she comes. Spoken out loud, in front of her, with her agreeing. This will be scary for your H to say out loud to her, I suspect he'll need coaching from the therapist on how to do it. But it's essential. And unless she's just a jerk, she should be amenable to the whole thing. And you three will be able to establish a loving relationship that you all enjoy.


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## VeryHurt

Didn't you say that your husband is rarely home?
What is he going to contribute? 
You may actually wind up being the sole caregiver!
Think this out carefully!


----------



## finding-a-path

VeryHurt said:


> Didn't you say that your husband is rarely home?
> What is he going to contribute?
> You may actually wind up being the sole caregiver!
> Think this out carefully!


i wake up at 5.20am and leave at 6.20am and come home at 6pm. He goes to work at 4pm and returns around 2am. (not everyday.3-4 days a week) we sleep at 10pm so i only get to spend 4hours awake at home. I use that time to wash,eat, read the newspapers etc. So i have clearly told him i will not become caregiver.. I have a high stress job where i have to handle customers and oversee transactions. So i come home to relax.not to take on more duties.. I dont have time for more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

VeryHurt said:


> Didn't you say that your husband is rarely home?
> What is he going to contribute?
> You may actually wind up being the sole caregiver!
> Think this out carefully!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

ok.. So right now, he told me that he needs 3 months to see if he can 4get that i told him i ll kill him. And i said i will try to build trust again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VeryHurt

finding-a-path said:


> ok.. So right now, he told me that he needs 3 months to see if he can 4get that i told him i ll kill him. And i said i will try to build trust again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How did he come to 3 months?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> he said that the doc said her cholesterol is double the normal amount. and she has a thinned artery.


There people out there with way worse health issues taking the initiative to take care of themselves... My ex's aunt ran cholesterol eight times the normal limit and lived that way for decades. My bosses dad has thinned arteries and has managed with meds for at least a decade. Typically elders are moved in for mobility reasons. Why is she living with her sister?


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> There people out there with way worse health issues taking the initiative to take care of themselves... My ex's aunt ran cholesterol eight times the normal limit and lived that way for decades. My bosses dad has thinned arteries and has managed with meds for at least a decade. Typically elders are moved in for mobility reasons. Why is she living with her sister?


she was living with my husband's brother. He told me that she had some kind of a fight with the brother and moved to her sister's house. I do not know much details about it though..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

VeryHurt said:


> How did he come to 3 months?


 he said right now the only thing in his mind is me saying i will kill him and he needs 3 months to try to forget it. I know it was bad of me to tell that.but i was very emotional because i never thought he would lie to me. And i know it was not thoughtful of me to say that after we discussed how he holds on to fights and resents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happyfamily

Brinksmanship has no place in a marriage, and you both apparently do it.

There are boundaries we set, sure - but those are not threats to commit suicide or kill the other person or in most cases not even threaten divorce. 

If he refuses to go to counseling with you - that is a really bad sign. And these answers - not acceptable. For example, the answer to not discussing the mother coming to stay was that he felt he was in control of his decisions.

What kind of answer is that? It doesn't make any sense. That's why you need a referee. They don't put up with nonsensical answers. 

The answer is because he knew what you would say. That's why we tell mom she can come. So that you are put in a position of having to change a decision that the other parties were already counting on - and it's a huge deal to go back on it with all the yelling and guilt-tripping.

You both need to be in counseling together.


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## finding-a-path

that is what i am trying. To go to counseling together. Because i think we both are responsible for this situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> she was living with my husband's brother. He told me that she had some kind of a fight with the brother and moved to her sister's house. I do not know much details about it though..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Leave her at her sisters house ... Otherwise that fight is coming to your home. 

Happy Family is right, he choosing disrespect and is trying to control your emotional reactions, thus the breakdown in including you in family decisions. And though its not the right answer it is a natural instinct given the intensity of your reactions. He doesnt trust your reactions nor does he respect them. A lot of damage has been done and it will take a healthy length of time to right this ship.

I think the book Codependency no more will help you guys...


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> ok.. So right now, he told me that he needs 3 months to see if he can 4get that i told him i ll kill him. And i said i will try to build trust again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now here is where you STOP trying to manage him.

You say 'Ok, I understand. I'll spend the next three months in therapy learning why I did what I did and learning why you feel the need to manipulate me, so I can counteract it. And if at the end of 3 months, neither of us can come to an impasse, we'll decide what to do then.'

Do NOT take the 'I'm the only horrible person here' mode and accept ALL BLAME. Don't do it. It's not healthy, it's not helpful. Accept your HALF and refuse to accept the rest. This is an important turning point in your relationship.


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## turnera

One thing I want you to look at is the fact that you two have different schedules. Dr. Harley says that, to stay in love, you must spend at least 15 hours a week doing non-chore/work/kids activities. Could be as small as having a cup of coffee or tea together, could be as big as going on a day trip together, but if you two aren't spending 10-20 hours a week just ENJOYING each other's company, you WILL fall out of love. If neither of you can change your job, then you need to adjust what time you DO have together so that it's not spent on chores - get that stuff done at other times. You simply MUST start spending time together doing nothing more than hanging out together and building bonding moments.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Now here is where you STOP trying to manage him.
> 
> You say 'Ok, I understand. I'll spend the next three months in therapy learning why I did what I did and learning why you feel the need to manipulate me, so I can counteract it. And if at the end of 3 months, neither of us can come to an impasse, we'll decide what to do then.'
> 
> Do NOT take the 'I'm the only horrible person here' mode and accept ALL BLAME. Don't do it. It's not healthy, it's not helpful. Accept your HALF and refuse to accept the rest. This is an important turning point in your relationship.



I said this to him. just now. i said i understand both of us are responsible for the state we are in and i said i accept my faults and i asked for forgiveness and i said i am ready to wait 3 months and he said "we ll see"


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Now here is where you STOP trying to manage him.
> 
> You say 'Ok, I understand. I'll spend the next three months in therapy learning why I did what I did and learning why you feel the need to manipulate me, so I can counteract it. And if at the end of 3 months, neither of us can come to an impasse, we'll decide what to do then.'
> 
> Do NOT take the 'I'm the only horrible person here' mode and accept ALL BLAME. Don't do it. It's not healthy, it's not helpful. Accept your HALF and refuse to accept the rest. This is an important turning point in your relationship.


Could not agree more... there is a lot of mutual controlling behavior going on in this relationship and the "cure" is to own your part and don't own his and visa versa. I went through the same thing with my husband and when I was learning to own my own part he kept trying to own mine still and I started telling him "keep your eyes on your own paper" and it worked really well!


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> One thing I want you to look at is the fact that you two have different schedules. Dr. Harley says that, to stay in love, you must spend at least 15 hours a week doing non-chore/work/kids activities. Could be as small as having a cup of coffee or tea together, could be as big as going on a day trip together, but if you two aren't spending 10-20 hours a week just ENJOYING each other's company, you WILL fall out of love. If neither of you can change your job, then you need to adjust what time you DO have together so that it's not spent on chores - get that stuff done at other times. You simply MUST start spending time together doing nothing more than hanging out together and building bonding moments.



we spend time together watching tv shows/movies and then we are on bed together reading for about 30 minutes on the days he is home(reading different books) i would say we spend about 9 hours together doing these..


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> we spend time together watching tv shows/movies and then we are on bed together reading for about 30 minutes on the days he is home(reading different books) i would say we spend about 9 hours together doing these..


I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dr. Harley says tv time _does not count_. Because you are not interacting with each other. You can watch tv together with the guy sitting next to you in the bus stop.

Try turning the tv off at least once a week and bringing out some decks of cards or a jigsaw puzzle or a crossword puzzle book - do something that requires you being TOGETHER on it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dr. Harley says tv time _does not count_. Because you are not interacting with each other. You can watch tv together with the guy sitting next to you in the bus stop.
> 
> Try turning the tv off at least once a week and bringing out some decks of cards or a jigsaw puzzle or a crossword puzzle book - do something that requires you being TOGETHER on it.


Unless you are your H are like me and my H where when we watch something that is a joint interest we are constantly pausing the TV to interact about it. LOTS of fun... and laughter. It's nothing for us to stretch a 30 min or hour show into three hours.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dr. Harley says tv time _does not count_. Because you are not interacting with each other. You can watch tv together with the guy sitting next to you in the bus stop.
> 
> Try turning the tv off at least once a week and bringing out some decks of cards or a jigsaw puzzle or a crossword puzzle book - do something that requires you being TOGETHER on it.


i will suggest this to him. what else can we do?


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Unless you are your H are like me and my H where when we watch something that is a joint interest we are constantly pausing the TV to interact about it. LOTS of fun... and laughter. It's nothing for us to stretch a 30 min or hour show into three hours.


no. we do not do that.. you two must be great together  if i may ask,what shows do you watch? it seems we do not laugh together anymore... we are currently watching person of interest.


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## turnera

Taking walks, gardening, riding bikes, skating, bowling, board games, checkers, picnic on the patio, stuff like that.


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## Lostinthought61

for what's it worth, there are certain topic/issues in marriage that one can not maintain a rational discussion with...family is one of them....he can not in good faith see a rational clarity in regards to his mother, and to request otherwise from him is difficult at best. I think your right in his original post that he should have conferred upon you the discussion about having his mother come stay with the both of you, but apparently out of what i can conclude is guilt he decided to over ride your input. that said i think you were justified in remarking about your important exam coming up, but your approach might have been better realized in a different manner, for example you could have said, "well your mother is certainly important to us, and therefore i am willing to study for the upcoming exam at xxxxx house or hotel in order to give you the opportunity to take care of your mother" in this manner you don't negate your needs nor his desire to take care of his mother but it does place complete ownership of watching after his mother on him which in fairness is his responsibility . It also at the same time impresses upon him the importance of making sure you are part of the decision making in the future. 

not here we are today and i have to tell you i highly disappointed in your husband and the way he has treated you, i think he is acting immature and a real baby....i would actually step away from the house and tell him to call you when he grows up...this is unacceptable behavior. you should have picked a better partner.

and your MIL is a real winner, she is manipulative and controlling and i would not put up with her crap.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Taking walks, gardening, riding bikes, skating, bowling, board games, checkers, picnic on the patio, stuff like that.


thank you. i think i am going to search more about a board game.


----------



## turnera

Twister is pretty cool for couples.


----------



## finding-a-path

Xenote said:


> for what's it worth, there are certain topic/issues in marriage that one can not maintain a rational discussion with...family is one of them....he can not in good faith see a rational clarity in regards to his mother, and to request otherwise from him is difficult at best. I think your right in his original post that he should have conferred upon you the discussion about having his mother come stay with the both of you, but apparently out of what i can conclude is guilt he decided to over ride your input. that said i think you were justified in remarking about your important exam coming up, but your approach might have been better realized in a different manner, for example you could have said, "well your mother is certainly important to us, and therefore i am willing to study for the upcoming exam at xxxxx house or hotel in order to give you the opportunity to take care of your mother" in this manner you don't negate your needs nor his desire to take care of his mother but it does place complete ownership of watching after his mother on him which in fairness is his responsibility . It also at the same time impresses upon him the importance of making sure you are part of the decision making in the future.
> 
> not here we are today and i have to tell you i highly disappointed in your husband and the way he has treated you, i think he is acting immature and a real baby....i would actually step away from the house and tell him to call you when he grows up...this is unacceptable behavior. you should have picked a better partner.
> 
> and your MIL is a real winner, she is manipulative and controlling and i would not put up with her crap.



good points. now that he lied, i am disappointed and hurt too. trying one last time. these 3 months will decide the fate of our relationship.i wish he did'nt lie and i wish i did not say i ll kill him. but now we cant change those. so i am going to hope for the best. i hope we will be able to get past these issues.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Twister is pretty cool for couples.


thank you. we will try.


----------



## finding-a-path

i am definitely not going to try suicide or fight about small issues. i have learned my lesson. i see how those made us distant. 

in his part, i hope he learns to forgive and forget because he makes every little thing stay in his mind making him resent.

and i hope he wont lie and he will learn to say "i am angry" when he is angry instead of saying "i dont love you find someone else"


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## turnera

You have to make it a safe environment for him to learn to do that. And even then, his FOO may have taught him to never speak up. Which is why BOTH of you should be in therapy. Is he going?


----------



## MyTurn

finding,
you are on the right path.You gays have 3 months to do the work to save your marriage.

I want to point out some things you said :

<<i am definitely not going to try suicide or fight about small issues. i have learned my lesson. i see how those made us distant. >> 

change " small" with "any"

<<in his part, i hope he learns to forgive and forget because he makes every little thing stay in his mind making him resent.>>

You focus on your part , not his.Your goal is to better yourself ,to be the best possible "Finding" as a woman,wife ,friend.You do this for you,not him.If he truly loves you and wants the marriage , he will notice the changes and he will change too.If he doesn't change ,then you know that your marriage is over ,and you are ready to move on.So whatever the outcome is ,it's win win for you.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You have to make it a safe environment for him to learn to do that. And even then, his FOO may have taught him to never speak up. Which is why BOTH of you should be in therapy. Is he going?


He said he will see about joining counseling after the 3 months. i will be going alone till then.


----------



## finding-a-path

MyTurn said:


> finding,
> you are on the right path.You gays have 3 months to do the work to save your marriage.
> 
> I want to point out some things you said :
> 
> <<i am definitely not going to try suicide or fight about small issues. i have learned my lesson. i see how those made us distant. >>
> 
> change " small" with "any"
> 
> <<in his part, i hope he learns to forgive and forget because he makes every little thing stay in his mind making him resent.>>
> 
> You focus on your part , not his.Your goal is to better yourself ,to be the best possible "Finding" as a woman,wife ,friend.You do this for you,not him.If he truly loves you and wants the marriage , he will notice the changes and he will change too.If he doesn't change ,then you know that your marriage is over ,and you are ready to move on.So whatever the outcome is ,it's win win for you.


yes. i will focus on me and what i can do to have a conflict free 3 months..


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> He said he will see about joining counseling after the 3 months. i will be going alone till then.


Oh bullsh*t.

See, the tide has turned. You've apologized, he's refused therapy, and he's said he's 'giving' you 3 months to see if you change. He gained control. He's not going to give it up. You have to take it back.

My abusive ex-fiance once told me that I was too immature for him (I was 18, he was 21). He said he was giving me 6 months to see if I could become mature enough for him to continue seeing. Of course I begged him to keep me. Disgusting (on my part). Luckily, I then broke up with him a year later when I realized he'd been lying to me and cheating on me the whole time. 

I was afraid you were tipping too far over. Go back to him and tell him that if he doesn't start going to therapy with you BEFORE the 3 months is up, you'll assume you're getting divorced.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Oh bullsh*t.
> 
> See, the tide has turned. You've apologized, he's refused therapy, and he's said he's 'giving' you 3 months to see if you change. He gained control. He's not going to give it up. You have to take it back.
> 
> My abusive ex-fiance once told me that I was too immature for him (I was 18, he was 21). He said he was giving me 6 months to see if I could become mature enough for him to continue seeing. Of course I begged him to keep me. Disgusting (on my part). Luckily, I then broke up with him a year later when I realized he'd been lying to me and cheating on me the whole time.
> 
> I was afraid you were tipping too far over. Go back to him and tell him that if he doesn't start going to therapy with you BEFORE the 3 months is up, you'll assume you're getting divorced.


he is so angry for my comment about killing him that if i tell him that right now he will pack and leave. so i think it will be better if i go alone on 18th and then ask him again to join me.. now is not a time to ask things from him..


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Oh bullsh*t.
> 
> See, the tide has turned. You've apologized, he's refused therapy, and he's said he's 'giving' you 3 months to see if you change.he said he is giving 3 months to himself to see if he can forget my comment "killing him" He gained control. He's not going to give it up. You have to take it back.
> 
> My abusive ex-fiance once told me that I was too immature for him (I was 18, he was 21). He said he was giving me 6 months to see if I could become mature enough for him to continue seeing. Of course I begged him to keep me. Disgusting (on my part). Luckily, I then broke up with him a year later when I realized he'd been lying to me and cheating on me the whole time. wow. you were 19 when you did that.impressive.
> 
> I was afraid you were tipping too far over. Go back to him and tell him that if he doesn't start going to therapy with you BEFORE the 3 months is up, you'll assume you're getting divorced.


----------



## turnera

No, you've said that before, right? What's different THIS time is that the therapist said it was wrong for you to say it, so now he has a weapon to use against you so that he doesn't have to look at his own flaws. Do we need to go back to the beginning of this thread and pull out all the things he's done to YOU?


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> No, you've said that before, right? What's different THIS time is that the therapist said it was wrong for you to say it, so now he has a weapon to use against you so that he doesn't have to look at his own flaws. Do we need to go back to the beginning of this thread and pull out all the things he's done to YOU?


 i have never said " i will kill you" to him before. i tried to suicide 2 times. i have told him that we BOTH are responsible for this.


----------



## finding-a-path

i am going to wait till 18th, go and come and ask him to join counseling. right now he does not like to talk with me.. and i don't want to beg or reason with him too. i feel if he wants to save this marriage he will have to decide to go to counseling at some point, soon.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

But now he has put you on the hook...

Acknowledging your screw up is spot on

But the leverage is out of balance again...

If he is not supporting his own emotional weight he will pull you over on top of him, off of your feet which you are trying to stand on... Right now he has put the entire success of the relationship on your shoulders where it doesnt belong Darlin'


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## turnera

Exactly.

Between now and then start reading articles about boundaries in marriage. You REALLY need to learn this stuff.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> But now he has put you on the hook...
> 
> Acknowledging your screw up is spot on
> 
> But the leverage is out of balance again...
> 
> If he is not supporting his own emotional weight he will pull you over on top of him, off of your feet which you are trying to stand on... Right now he has put the entire success of the relationship on your shoulders where it doesnt belong Darlin'


 I too think he needs to work on saving this marriage justs as hard as me. Since he said he will try to forget everything to start fresh, i will wait the 3 months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Between now and then start reading articles about boundaries in marriage. You REALLY need to learn this stuff.


i will search the net now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VeryHurt

Xenote said:


> i have to tell you i highly disappointed in your husband and the way he has treated you, i think he is acting immature and a real baby.


I agree !!! :smthumbup:


----------



## VeryHurt

finding-a-path said:


> I said this to him. just now. i said i understand both of us are responsible for the state we are in and i said i accept my faults and i asked for forgiveness and i said i am ready to wait 3 months and *he said "we ll **see*"


You said this to him and he responded with, "We'll see."

Are you serious?

He is playing mind games !!!!!!!


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## VeryHurt

FAP ~

I read all the updates and once again I will tell you that he is just like my husband.

Very very very CONTROLLING !!!!!!!!!!

Look at me, I have days when I am a friggin' mess. My mind has been tortured. Do you want to end up like me?

He is *EMOTIONALLY FVCKED UP *!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very Hurt


----------



## finding-a-path

VeryHurt said:


> FAP ~
> 
> I read all the updates and once again I will tell you that he is just like my husband.
> 
> Very very very CONTROLLING !!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Look at me, I have days when I am a friggin' mess. My mind has been tortured. Do you want to end up like me?
> 
> He is *EMOTIONALLY FVCKED UP *!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Very Hurt


yes.he has some problems. Big ones i guess... I asked him again.still the answer is 'we ll see' i am thinking of moving out for some time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alphaomega

Wow,

Your husband is messed up. you just can't see it because your entangled in it.

If he pulled that crap on the guys, which he probably wouldn't, we'd all laugh at him and call him a big baby. And continue to ridicule him until he started to cry.

Does he have any male friends?


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## finding-a-path

alphaomega said:


> Wow,
> 
> Your husband is messed up. you just can't see it because your entangled in it.
> 
> If he pulled that crap on the guys, which he probably wouldn't, we'd all laugh at him and call him a big baby. And continue to ridicule him until he started to cry.
> 
> Does he have any male friends?


he does have male friends.. I am tired because we both didnt know how to fight and resolve it but now i am willing to try but he doesnt want to try. .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VeryHurt

FAP ~

How many times do I have to tell you that he is NUTS !!!!

You have a chance to get away from him.

Don't be a fool like i was. 

Years ago (2011) wonderful people on TAM told me to dump him.

I did not listen.

VH


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> he does have male friends.. I am tired because we both didnt know how to fight and resolve it but now i am willing to try but he doesnt want to try. .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only stay if he is willing to try and if you can handle his try. Otherwise ... find refuge and heal from the trauma and learn better for yourself going forward. Take time to heal.


----------



## finding-a-path

VeryHurt said:


> FAP ~
> 
> How many times do I have to tell you that he is NUTS !!!!
> 
> You have a chance to get away from him.
> 
> Don't be a fool like i was.
> 
> Years ago (2011) wonderful people on TAM told me to dump him.
> 
> I did not listen.
> 
> VH


I guess i just want to try one last time... let's say we have around 30 years to be together.i sure don't want to fight and be distant for 1 month in every 6 months for 30 years. i have told him this and i have told him that if he stays, i don't want to listen to him saying "i don't love you, lets divorce" after every fight.


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## turnera

I'll say it again: you shouldn't be fighting. Discussing, yes, fighting, no. Every time you fight, you poke more holes in his 'love bucket' so that it becomes impossible for you to love him enough to make up for the fighting.

That said, he's severely dysfunctional, and I doubt you'll ever get to any place of normalcy with him. That would take away his control, and he won't allow that.


----------



## finding-a-path

today i asked him "do you want to be able to forget, forgive and move on after fighting/getting hurt without being angry and resenting and keeping score of things and be happy?" he said yes.. and then he said "but that is the way (resenting) i have been used to since i was little. i was alone" i feel bad for him... 

he keeps saying he was alone and didn't have anyone. i guess that is why he gets hurt more than others and tries to hide it and feel anger/resentment instead of sadness about getting hurt. maybe he felt even if he was sad there was no one to care..

he must have wanted love of parents when he was little. and when he didn't get it he must have been hurt. and then because there was no one to care about that sadness it must have been slowly tuned in to anger and resentment. and he must have put up emotional walls to make him self distant. that is the way he tries to deal with it every time he is hurt..

and i learned something more. he was with his mother's sister and she used to fight with her husband and pack her bags and leave with him(my husband when he was little) maybe he is saying i don't love you lets divorce because that is the only way he saw a couple dealing with fights..


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I'll say it again: you shouldn't be fighting. Discussing, yes, fighting, no. Every time you fight, you poke more holes in his 'love bucket' so that it becomes impossible for you to love him enough to make up for the fighting.
> i am trying to stay without fighting.
> That said, he's severely dysfunctional, and I doubt you'll ever get to any place of normalcy with him. That would take away his control, and he won't allow that.


he was normal -at least with me- until that fight happened in 2012. that is the time he got very hurt and decided to be distant... now he is not showing feelings/emotions. do you think he would not be able to be normal again even with therapy?


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## Blossom Leigh

Understanding where it comes from is wise... it's what you do with that information that is important.

Show compassion for his past.

But it is today... he is to take responsibility for his behavior as you are yours in proactive ways. 

Now that your level of awareness is elevating, it will take time to discern if the capacity to reconcile and the willingness to reconcile are present. They are what make R's successful. 

If they aren't present, value your life enough to find better and DO better.


----------



## turnera

I spent years giving my H leeway because of his crappy childhood. But eventually I realized that wasn't helping HIM learn and grow, and it sure as hell wasn't getting ME what I needed.

He's an adult.

He can choose better. Tell him to wear a rubberband on his wrist and every time he feels himself retreating to those choices, snap it and remember how it's hurting you.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> he was normal -at least with me- until that fight happened in 2012. that is the time he got very hurt and decided to be distant... now he is not showing feelings/emotions. do you think he would not be able to be normal again even with therapy?


The thing is, therapy is VERY SLOW GOING. I mean, if you two went once a month, he probably will never change. If you went twice a month, he'd start to change, as he'd be being held accountable somewhat, but it would take 2 or 3 years to get lasting change. If you went 3 X a month, you might get a real change in 6 months to a year. The question is, how much WORK is he willing to put into it?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> I spent years giving my H leeway because of his crappy childhood. But eventually I realized that wasn't helping HIM learn and grow, and it sure as hell wasn't getting ME what I needed.
> 
> He's an adult.
> 
> He can choose better. Tell him to wear a rubberband on his wrist and every time he feels himself retreating to those choices, snap it and remember how it's hurting you.


Is there a size limit to that rubberband... do they make industrial size  I need one...lol


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I'll say it again: you shouldn't be fighting. Discussing, yes, fighting, no. Every time you fight, you poke more holes in his 'love bucket' so that it becomes impossible for you to love him enough to make up for the fighting.
> 
> That said, he's severely dysfunctional, and I doubt you'll ever get to any place of normalcy with him. That would take away his control, and he won't allow that.


by saying " That would take away his control, and he won't allow that" do you mean the control he has over not showing his emotions? his control over his vulnerability? or do you mean to say about the relationship or me?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> The thing is, therapy is VERY SLOW GOING. I mean, if you two went once a month, he probably will never change. If you went twice a month, he'd start to change, as he'd be being held accountable somewhat, but it would take 2 or 3 years to get lasting change. If you went 3 X a month, you might get a real change in 6 months to a year. The question is, how much WORK is he willing to put into it?



right... My H is actively working on his therapy 2 - 6 hours a week, every week and has been for headed into our fourth month. 

I have seen drastic changes, but he is clocking a lot of hours on this thing. And we are still struggling at a level that makes me question if this will make a deep enough change to sustain a long term relationship with him. I am also VERY strong and have done a TON of my own work since 2005 plus am currently in therapy myself at least six hours every month. My current counselor told me last week that I was so versed in these issues and know the language so well and critically think so well on them that I could be doing this work.. and I STILL have gaps that I'm working on. So it is not for the faint at heart.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> The thing is, therapy is VERY SLOW GOING. I mean, if you two went once a month, he probably will never change. If you went twice a month, he'd start to change, as he'd be being held accountable somewhat, but it would take 2 or 3 years to get lasting change. If you went 3 X a month, you might get a real change in 6 months to a year. The question is, how much WORK is he willing to put into it?


we can probably go 2 times a month. by saying yes when i asked him do you like to be able to learn to forgive, forget and move on, he has showed some interest in changing.. i am going to leave it there for a few days before i take up the topic again with him.. so that he has time to think.. if he feels the need to change , instead of me nagging him, i think that would work better.


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## turnera

He seems to have low self esteem, which is common for people with bad FOO - they feel worthless, unloveable. So they try to control their environment. For instance, during our first 5 to 10 years, my H tried to control where I went and who I saw; he'd criticize my family and friends, guilt me if I went to see them, question why I had to go to the mall, basically made it so miserable for me to be away from him that I gave up all activities that didn't include him. He did that because subconsciously he was afraid that I'd decide I was better off without him.

I think that, combined with his skewed belief that since you 'hurt' him he has to close off from you, he would have a really hard time ever coming out from under that safety net he's built up. The ONLY time I've ever seen such people become better partners is with sustained PERSONAL (not marriage) counseling.


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## Blossom Leigh

In my situation I was not able to leave it there for him to pick it up on his own since his behavior was jeopardizing mine and my son's safety.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> He seems to have low self esteem, which is common for people with bad FOO - they feel worthless, unloveable. So they try to control their environment. For instance, during our first 5 to 10 years, my H tried to control where I went and who I saw; he'd criticize my family and friends, guilt me if I went to see them, question why I had to go to the mall, basically made it so miserable for me to be away from him that I gave up all activities that didn't include him. He did that because subconsciously he was afraid that I'd decide I was better off without him.he does not try to control me like that at all...
> 
> I think that, combined with his skewed belief that since you 'hurt' him he has to close off from you, he would have a really hard time ever coming out from under that safety net he's built up. The ONLY time I've ever seen such people become better partners is with sustained PERSONAL (not marriage) counseling.


this part is totally spot on, he has the safety net/emotional wall and it will be hard to come out..


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> In my situation I was not able to leave it there for him to pick it up on his own since his behavior was jeopardizing mine and my son's safety.


and the therapy has changed him now...?


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## finding-a-path

we had a date planned yesterday to watch Godzilla and some other activities. we planned it before these things happened and he actually came for the date. if he didn't want anything to do with me he could have said no..

also i feel when he is hurt he wants to hurt back and the way he knows to hurt me is by saying i don't love you.let divorce.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> and the therapy has changed him now...?


I have seen some drastic changes in a short amount of time, but we hit a messy week this week and it is rough going at the moment. Right now I am assessing what I have on my hands with this regression. Will be patient for now... but vigilant.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> I have seen some drastic changes in a short amount of time, but we hit a messy week this week and it is rough going at the moment. Right now I am assessing what I have on my hands with this regression. Will be patient for now... but vigilant.


what are the issues you guys are having? do you have a thread about it? you have helped so much i feel the least i can do is being aware.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> he does not try to control me like that at all...


I didn't mean that yours would, just was an example of how a person with dysfunction can do things that hurt the other person, to try to control the environment. ymmv


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> what are the issues you guys are having? do you have a thread about it? you have helped so much i feel the least i can do is being aware.


It is spread over different threads. You can find it in my profile, but I probably need to do a central thread going forward...


----------



## VeryHurt

FAP, Tunera and Blossom Leigh ~

It seems that we have a lot in common. My STBX is emotionally damaged from his horrible childhood. No bonding with his mom during infancy. She was cold, business-like, distant and critical. 

Her Mom had psychiatric problems and did a lousy job with her so my MIL was not materal whatsoever. 

My STBX was ignored by her and his dad was not much better. 

He not has attachment issues and he is emotionally and socially immature. 

He also harbors resentments and anger that go back to the year of the flood. Not a happy person. No self-esteem. Moody. 

His older brother and younger sister are both divorced. Not one sibling can function in a relationship like a "normal/regular" person.

My/our Psychotherapist said that he will "probably never change" but if he "really worked hard, was honest and talkative" she may get somewhere if he comes "twice a week."
He will NOT do that.

If you toss in his depression and adult ADD you can see what a mess he is and why our marriage was so dysfunctional.

I did feel sorry for his cold childhood as mine was much different. I did that in consideration all these years but as he got older and enter the mid-life crisis stage, things got worse. 

He also got owrse after I fell and hurt my leg. He ran. Not caregiver. Didn't want a wife who had a slight "disability." He de not want to be "stuck" with someone like his Mom who BTW also had disabilities.

The cannot attach like most people. They do not understand the give and take, the ups and downs and the stresses of maintaing a marriage/relationship/friendship. It is foreign to them. 

They have this "everyone for themselves" attitude and can be very "selfish."

Don't even try to figure out what they are thinking. 

VH


----------



## turnera

The frequency of IC visits is important because, if you ARE going once or twice a week, there's little leeway in getting out of doing the real work that the IC will expect of them. And changing your brain is very much one of those things where you have to keep doing the activities consistently to rewire the brain. Twice a month MIGHT make him more AWARE of the problems, but I doubt he will ever change from it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

VeryHurt said:


> FAP, Tunera and Blossom Leigh ~
> 
> It seems that we have a lot in common. My STBX is emotionally damaged from his horrible childhood. No bonding with his mom during infancy. She was cold, business-like, distant and critical.
> 
> Her Mom had psychiatric problems and did a lousy job with her so my MIL was not materal whatsoever.
> 
> My STBX was ignored by her and his dad was not much better.
> 
> He not has attachment issues and he is emotionally and socially immature.
> 
> He also harbors resentments and anger that go back to the year of the flood. Not a happy person. No self-esteem. Moody.
> 
> His older brother and younger sister are both divorced. Not one sibling can function in a relationship like a "normal/regular" person.
> 
> My/our Psychotherapist said that he will "probably never change" but if he "really worked hard, was honest and talkative" she may get somewhere if he comes "twice a week."
> He will NOT do that.
> 
> If you toss in his depression and adult ADD you can see what a mess he is and why our marriage was so dysfunctional.
> 
> I did feel sorry for his cold childhood as mine was much different. I did that in consideration all these years but as he got older and enter the mid-life crisis stage, things got worse.
> 
> He also got owrse after I fell and hurt my leg. He ran. Not caregiver. Didn't want a wife who had a slight "disability." He de not want to be "stuck" with someone like his Mom who BTW also had disabilities.
> 
> The cannot attach like most people. They do not understand the give and take, the ups and downs and the stresses of maintaing a marriage/relationship/friendship. It is foreign to them.
> 
> They have this "everyone for themselves" attitude and can be very "selfish."
> 
> Don't even try to figure out what they are thinking.
> 
> VH


I noticed the connection too. Almost told Turnera yesterday that we feel like a tag team.


----------



## finding-a-path

VeryHurt said:


> FAP, Tunera and Blossom Leigh ~
> 
> It seems that we have a lot in common. My STBX is emotionally damaged from his horrible childhood. No bonding with his mom during infancy. She was cold, business-like, distant and critical.
> 
> Her Mom had psychiatric problems and did a lousy job with her so my MIL was not materal whatsoever.
> 
> My STBX was ignored by her and his dad was not much better.
> 
> He not has attachment issues and he is emotionally and socially immature.
> 
> He also harbors resentments and anger that go back to the year of the flood. Not a happy person. No self-esteem. Moody. just like my husband
> 
> His older brother and younger sister are both divorced. Not one sibling can function in a relationship like a "normal/regular" person.
> 
> My/our Psychotherapist said that he will "probably never change" but if he "really worked hard, was honest and talkative" she may get somewhere if he comes "twice a week."
> He will NOT do that.
> 
> If you toss in his depression and adult ADD you can see what a mess he is and why our marriage was so dysfunctional.
> 
> I did feel sorry for his cold childhood as mine was much different. I did that in consideration all these years but as he got older and enter the mid-life crisis stage, things got worse.
> 
> He also got owrse after I fell and hurt my leg. He ran. Not caregiver. Didn't want a wife who had a slight "disability." He de not want to be "stuck" with someone like his Mom who BTW also had disabilities.
> 
> The cannot attach like most people. They do not understand the give and take, the ups and downs and the stresses of maintaing a marriage/relationship/friendship. It is foreign to them.
> 
> They have this "everyone for themselves" attitude and can be very "selfish."
> 
> Don't even try to figure out what they are thinking.
> 
> VH


i wonder if there are any books that could help these men?


----------



## turnera

Only if they're motivated. And if they were, they'd have looked already.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

There is some good truth in that statement Turnera... I ended up telling my husband to quit looking to me for all the answers. He needs to find his answers from friends, good counsel, study, Bible, God... He was putting entirely too much emotional weight on me. And he pursued other sources of information on his own. BEST thing that ever happened.


----------



## VeryHurt

Blossom Leigh said:


> There is some good truth in that statement Turnera... I ended up telling my husband to quit looking to me for all the answers. He needs to find his answers from friends, good counsel, study, Bible, God... He was putting entirely too much emotional weight on me. And he pursued other sources of information on his own. BEST thing that ever happened.


BL ~

Your H pursued help on his own? I think that's great.
My H has drained me to death. My H has no clue how messed up he is. This may sound silly but I feel badly for our son. I think he would have preferred a dad who was loving and caring and warm. You know, the kind a person who will grab the grandchildren and suck their faces off. Not this guy, he is cold.
VH


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Only if they're motivated. And if they were, they'd have looked already.


can you please mention the book titles? I know he will not look on his own. But if i knew the titles i could open in tabs and keep it there so that he would see. Then maybe he will be interested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

VeryHurt said:


> BL ~
> 
> Your H pursued help on his own? I think that's great.
> My H has drained me to death. My H has no clue how messed up he is. This may sound silly but I feel badly for our son. I think he would have preferred a dad who was loving and caring and warm. You know, the kind a person who will grab the grandchildren and suck their faces off. Not this guy, he is cold.
> VH


my husband is cold too. Not expressing emotions.. Sometimes i just feel like saying why cant you just forgive,forget and move on.but,i am trying to understand that he is this way coz of his childhood and be patient.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

im moving out for a week. No contact on that week. What do you think? I think it will give him time to think...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

One week will not change a dysfunctional man. But good for you leaving; it's necessary in this situation. Don't make any promises.


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## Blossom Leigh

it took around a month or so for my H to start feeling the pain of our separation...


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Only if they're motivated. And if they were, they'd have looked already.


turnera, i thought maybe you missed my request.sorry for asking again but,can you please mention the book titles? I know he will not look on his own. But if i knew the titles i could open in tabs and keep it there so that he would see. Then maybe he will be interested.

and i think those books will help me to understand him better too. but i am mainly looking for books that will help men with bad childhoods,attachment issues, resentment, emotional walls etc. books that THEY can read and realize what they are going through, how they are behaving and why,what they can do to change etc.


----------



## finding-a-path

so, i moved to my parents house today. but they don't know anything. i have counseling on 18th. i am going back on the night of 18th. that is just 5 days. but i hope he thinks about us and how his resentments are destroying us in these 5 days. he still says he needs 3 months to see if he can forget what i said. but, he agreed to go to counseling after those 3 months..


----------



## turnera

Which books was I talking about?


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Which books was I talking about?


I asked "i wonder if there are any books that could help these men? "

you said 

Only if they're motivated. And if they were, they'd have looked already

so, i thought maybe you know about such books?


----------



## Openminded

I don't think five days will do it. I personally don't believe in separations but you should be gone the entire three months if you are going to be gone at all. Five days is like a vacation for most people.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Openminded said:


> I don't think five days will do it. I personally don't believe in separations but you should be gone the entire three months if you are going to be gone at all. Five days is like a vacation for most people.


Totally agree..

Mine was gone for two months for safety reasons


----------



## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> I don't think five days will do it. I personally don't believe in separations but you should be gone the entire three months if you are going to be gone at all. Five days is like a vacation for most people.


i wish i could be gone till he decides.. But, i have to be there to study for my exam and this is the best we can do because others dont know about our problems.. I hope he would take this time to think. At least if he thinks 'am i going to let the past control us' that would be agood
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The thing is, you're floundering all over the place. You need to dig deep down in your core and figure out what you stand for. Once you know that, make all choices with that goal in mind.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> The thing is, you're floundering all over the place. You need to dig deep down in your core and figure out what you stand for. Once you know that, make all choices with that goal in mind.


Sorry but i didn't understand what you said...  i want this marriage to work out. i want us to be happy and i want him to be able to forgive without resentment and be close without the emotional walls.. which now he is willing to work on... and i want us to love each other like we did before and be capable of solving fights/conflict without me crying so much and him giving me silent treatment for days after saying "i don't love you" to hurt me. 

did you mean that me moving out is wrong?


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i want him to be able to forgive without resentment and be close without the emotional walls.. which now he is willing to work on... and i want us to love each other like we did before and be capable of solving fights/conflict without me crying so much and him giving me silent treatment for days *after saying "i don't love you" to hurt me*.


First, he is NOT willing to work on anything. Everyone sees it. If he were, he would not have used mental abuse to control you - "I'm ignoring you for 3 months to give you time to think about how to be a better wife." Utter bullsh*t. It's manipulation, plain and simple. He saw a way to get the upper hand and he's using it. And you're falling for it. 

YOUR inner core should be saying what you, as a woman, should have to deal with. I think you need a lot of therapy, personally, to come to grips with what that is. And what you should accept. Until you know that, you'll continue to play this passive aggressive dance with him and neither of you will get any better.

And personally, if I were you, I'd be moving out for good. Make him EARN you back. Others here have agreed. Moving out for a week is nothing but attempted manipulation on your part. What will you do when you go back at the end of the week and nothing has changed? Beg him to forgive you again?


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> First, he is NOT willing to work on anything. Everyone sees it. but, he agreed to counseling. isn't it a good step..? If he were, he would not have used mental abuse to control you - "I'm ignoring you for 3 months to give you time to think about how to be a better wife." he didn't say that. he said he needs time to forget what i said...but yes, it could be because he is hurt and distant or it could be what you said here...Utter bullsh*t. It's manipulation, plain and simple. He saw a way to get the upper hand and he's using it. And you're falling for it.
> 
> YOUR inner core should be saying what you, as a woman, should have to deal with. I think you need a lot of therapy, personally, to come to grips with what that is. And what you should accept. Until you know that, you'll continue to play this passive aggressive dance with him and neither of you will get any better.
> 
> And personally, if I were you, I'd be moving out for good. Make him EARN you back. Others here have agreed. Moving out for a week is nothing but attempted manipulation on your part. i do not want to manipulate him.. just want him to have some time to think "am i going to let past fights destroy us"What will you do when you go back at the end of the week and nothing has changed? Beg him to forgive you again?


no, i am going back after the counseling for myself and i am going to get guidelines on how to move forward from the counselor.. no "asking for forgiveness" again. i already did that


----------



## Miss Independent

Moving out for 5 days is useless. It will be better if you move out for the entire period or not move out at all. I doubt that he will change after five days.


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## Blossom Leigh

Sidenote: found a good resource for you...

Beyond Anger a guide for men


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Sidenote: found a good resource for you...
> 
> Beyond Anger a guide for men


thank you.. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

if i 
had an affair
spent huge amounts secretly
did not give him any affection/love or didn't want sex
was chatting with men online,sending them pics


etc,

i can understand that he would say "i dont love you anymore"

but to say that because i said i ll kill you when i was angry because he lied is an over reaction.that's how i feel.. 

and he says that after every fight so i think he needs to know how to say "i am angry with you" without saying "i don't love you"

the road of recovery will be long... i have told him last week that if he decides to stay with me (yes, he said he needs to decide if he wants to be with me or not after my comment) this divorce talk can't happen again..


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## turnera

How do you expect him to change? He's not doing anything.


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## Blossom Leigh

Y'all are both trying to control each other...

You don't get to tell him *what* he can't not love you over anymore. That's his choice.

what is acceptable is not accepting emotional abuse

IF he is trying to stop the fights (control) by using "after every fight I love you less" as an emotional weapon, that's not ok because it would fall into that emotional abuse camp.

You both need to learn to express anger CONstructively, instead of DEstructively. 

Emotions are not weapons, they are feedback.

Since both of you have destructive methods of expressing that emotional feedback, right now,... neither one of you are correct. Which means, choosing to give up "being right" and instead putting yourselves on the learning curve of "choosing better." Choosing to abandon destructive expressions of hurting emotions to embracing constructive expressions of hurting emotions. 

Y'all are both in pain... what are y'all going to do to heal it. Destruction on top of destruction compounds the pain. 

This is a paradigm shift situation...


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> How do you expect him to change? He's not doing anything.


he agreed to counseling.so i am thinking that will help him..


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Y'all are both trying to control each other...
> 
> You don't get to tell him *what* he can't not love you over anymore. That's his choice.do you mean that him saying i dont love you over little issues is ok..?
> 
> what is acceptable is not accepting emotional abuse
> 
> IF he is trying to stop the fights (control) by using "after every fight I love you less" as an emotional weapon, that's not ok because it would fall into that emotional abuse camp.what could have i done when he 1st said it? more importantly, what can i do now while he is deciding if he wants to be with me?
> 
> You both need to learn to express anger CONstructively, instead of DEstructively.
> 
> Emotions are not weapons, they are feedback.
> 
> Since both of you have destructive methods of expressing that emotional feedback, right now,... neither one of you are correct. Which means, choosing to give up "being right" and instead putting yourselves on the learning curve of "choosing better." Choosing to abandon destructive expressions of hurting emotions to embracing constructive expressions of hurting emotions.
> 
> Y'all are both in pain... what are y'all going to do to heal it. Destruction on top of destruction compounds the pain.
> 
> This is a paradigm shift situation...


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> he agreed to counseling.so i am thinking that will help him..


ONLY after you 'do something' to improve yourself for a month. Empty words. I bet you $10 that at the end of this month, he will give you an excuse for why he won't go to counseling, and that excuse will be YOUR FAULT.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> ONLY after you 'do something' to improve yourself for a month. Empty words. I bet you $10 that at the end of this month, he will give you an excuse for why he won't go to counseling, and that excuse will be YOUR FAULT.


no.. he didn't tell me to do anything..


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## turnera

> what could have i done when he 1st said it? more importantly, what can i do now while he is deciding if he wants to be with me?


You could have said "Really? I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm doing what I can to create a loving marriage and I'm fixing my side of the street. What are you doing to fix YOUR side so that we both have a loving relationship to stay in?" 

Note: Pet peeve, but please use capitalization in your sentences; it's really hard to read when you can't tell where sentences begin and end. This isn't texting.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> no.. he didn't tell me to do anything..


 He said he was giving you a month, to 'see' if he could forgive you. Same thing. He's waiting to see if you kiss his ass good enough. It's control, plain and simple.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You could have said "Really? I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm doing what I can to create a loving marriage and I'm fixing my side of the street. What are you doing to fix YOUR side so that we both have a loving relationship to stay in?" Then i guess i did good? I talked to him along these lines when i told him "i accept my part of the problem and i am willing to work on the issues and are you joining in too?"
> 
> Note: Pet peeve, but please use capitalization in your sentences; it's really hard to read when you can't tell where sentences begin and end. This isn't texting.


Sorry.. English is not my 1st language so i didn't think much about it..


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## turnera

I think the key thing here is to NOT let this turn into a 'let's let finding-a-path be responsible for all the problems in our marriage' thing. It sounds like that's how he's built, that he likes to make it your fault so no one looks at HIM. The only way that changes is when YOU stop accepting his assertions that you ARE the problem. He is free to 'feel' that way, but you have no intention of ACTING as though it's up to you to fix everything. He has a LOT of issues that will likely only get resolved in therapy; IIWY, I would keep THAT as my major, #1 goal - no marriage moving forward unless HE is going to regular therapy. Your issues, IMO, are more of a problem with immaturity; the more you learn, the more you change how you react to him; he, on the other hand, has a real problem accepting responsibility. Not easily fixed.


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> I think the key thing here is to NOT let this turn into a 'let's let finding-a-path be responsible for all the problems in our marriage' thing. It sounds like that's how he's built, that he likes to make it your fault so no one looks at HIM. The only way that changes is when YOU stop accepting his assertions that you ARE the problem. He is free to 'feel' that way, but you have no intention of ACTING as though it's up to you to fix everything. He has a LOT of issues that will likely only get resolved in therapy; IIWY, I would keep THAT as my major, #1 goal - no marriage moving forward unless HE is going to regular therapy. Your issues, IMO, are more of a problem with immaturity; the more you learn, the more you change how you react to him; he, on the other hand, has a real problem accepting responsibility. Not easily fixed.


YES! Brilliant post....:smthumbup:


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## finding-a-path

Today he had to go to the doctor and even though i am away i sent him a msg asking what happened. and then he told me about it and sent "people just dont leave because they cheat with naked photos or whatever. people leave because of incompatibility issues too. if you think otherwise it's stupid. i had a great time these few days. i really have needed to be alone away from you."


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## finding-a-path

"you know what. even if decide to stay i want to be alone like this every 4 months. i really like this. either you go or i go somewhere else isn't a problem. i need to be away from everybody for sometime periodically"


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## finding-a-path

and he says he does not believe that a counselor will be able to help in changing his behavior because he thinks he is too old to learn new ways to behave (even though he said he wants to change)


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> and he says he does not believe that a counselor will be able to help in changing his behavior because he thinks he is too old to learn new ways to behave (even though he said he wants to change)


bull hockey... that is a lie he has bought into ... humans never stop developing... if he chooses to believe that then in HIS case he will be correct, but there are TONS of stories to the contrary. 

He lives a very small world...

He has one choice... stick his head in the sand... or not

One of those choices will cost him you

its that simple


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> Today he had to go to the doctor and even though i am away i sent him a msg asking what happened. and then he told me about it and sent "people just dont leave because they cheat with naked photos or whatever. people leave because of incompatibility issues too. if you think otherwise it's stupid. i had a great time these few days. i really have needed to be alone away from you."


 WHAT an *ASS*.

What do you see in him? :scratchhead:


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> and he says he does not believe that a counselor will be able to help in changing his behavior


Wow. He didn't even last a WEEK before he told you he will not go to counseling.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Wow. He didn't even last a WEEK before he told you he will not go to counseling.


he is going.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> WHAT an *ASS*.
> 
> What do you see in him? :scratchhead:


this might be hard to believe but,when he is not sulking about a fight, he is caring, he hugs me, he sends me i love u texts, we go on dates, he calls me 'just because', sex is great and he is a very unselfish lover with lots of 4play and kissing afterwards , he lets me select what movie to watch, he brings ice cream without me asking for it coz he knows i like ice cream, he applies body lotion on my legs, he sends me flowers,he gets rid of spiders for me,he washes the dishes.. The list is endless. I just wish he would learn to say 'i am angry' instead of 'i dont love u,lets divorce' after fights.. It is like he is a totally different person when he is hurt. I dont know if he says 'i need 3 months to decide' because he is hurt a lot or to control me or coz of both. But i just wish he would learn to let go and forgive without resentment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

if he can't let go its because something is unresolved...

question is this...

why

with my H, he couldn't get resolution because he was trying to control me... leaving him in a stupor

If I did not agree with him, he saw me as stupid or lack of understanding... reality is, I'm a smart cookie and he was not accepting that I could have a differing opinion AND be smart at the same time. It was beyond his comprehension that his logic was flawed. BUT over time, he realized that was some seriously flawed thinking and has since started exercising his emotional agility muscle when he just accepts my answer and agrees to disagree if necessary. 

Don't judge his need for space. Though I don't agree with how he said it, I do agree that he needed it. BUT now it needs to be longer... but that isn't going to happen. 

Here is a thought... you can still give him all the space he needs when you return by doing the 180 on him even if y'all are in the same space.

I will tell you it is NOT as affective as a long separation... my separation was strategic by the way... if he was respectful and made me feel space I would invite him to stay longer... if he didn't I was VERY ok with the distance to give me that. make the right thing easy.. the wrong thing difficult

are you familiar with the term emotional energy?


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## finding-a-path

Not familiar with the term emotional energy. I ll google it.


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## finding-a-path

Normally,when i go to work here is what we do.

i text when i get in to the vehicle and he texts back saying tc
i travel for 1 hour and text home when i go to work, he texts ok eat or something
he calls me around 8.30am
i call him around 11am 
he calls me at lunch time
i call him at around 3.30pm
i text when i get in to the vehicle

calls are around 1 min each

so if i am doing the 180 we will not be doing any of this right?

we did not do in these few days too


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## finding-a-path

lets go to the start. 1st he said he loves me less coz i said wait two months to move in his mother.-i cant accept that as a reason to love me less i have a right to express myself and i didnt fight - Then he said he wants 3 months to decide if he wants to stay with me coz i said i ll kill him because he lied. And since then, i have said i accept my part in getting us here. And i said i am ready to work on our issues. And i also said 'if you stay,i dont want to go through the whole i dont love u lets divorce thing again so he will have to go to counseling and learn how to say 'i am angry' when he is angry instead of saying lets divorce.and he will have to get used to forgive without resenting. And he said he wants to change but he is not sure if therapy can change him. But he is still going to go and see.. Thats where we are..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

he has done this before.but in those times i have cried and begged him etc. This time,i told him 'if you want a divorce i am ok with it. And if you are staying i will be happy to work on our issues' . And there is something a little strange.. I am not crying. I used to cry in the bathroom, cry till i fall asleep etc. But now its like im frozen. Not even a single tear since 2 weeks or so. Dont know if i should be happy sad or worried about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i feel tired. I cant be 'on trial' every 6 months. I love him. I just hope he will see that.. Do you think he behaves this way coz of bi-polar? He is not happy about his work.so that might be triggering the 'moods'?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i dont know how i could have handled this without all of you. Thank you.. I feel for my husband.he is facing the demons of his childhood alone. I will try my best to let him see that he can choose a better life without the resentments etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut

I haven't posted but have been following your Story. What continually stands out to me is your suicide attempts and how that changed my entire outlook on your thread and how I viewed your husband. Having a mother who attempted suicide and an ex boyfriend who threatened it I am really taken back by your minimization of it and the effect it had on the the people who love you.sometimes it's used as a manipulative tool and I'm sorry If i am wrong bit I get that vibe from 
You. Just now you recapped your story and yet again failed to mention that pivotal piece. I think you Are more unbalanced and in need of help than you realize. Your view of your life and circumstance is very limited and self centered. You don't seem to really comprehend the gravity of your actions and the effect but you really need to if you want to move forward and improve your marriage and relationships
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut

finding-a-path said:


> i dont know how i could have handled this without all of you. Thank you.. I feel for my husband.he is facing the demons of his childhood alone. I will try my best to let him see that he can choose a better life without the resentments etc
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have your own demons to face. Do you realize that????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

inarut said:


> I haven't posted but have been following your Story. What continually stands out to me is your suicide attempts and how that changed my entire outlook on your thread and how I viewed your husband. Having a mother who attempted suicide and an ex boyfriend who threatened it I am really taken back by your minimization of it and the effect it had on the the people who love you.sometimes it's used as a manipulative tool and I'm sorry If i am wrong bit I get that vibe from
> You. Just now you recapped your story and yet again failed to mention that pivotal piece. I think you Are more unbalanced and in need of help than you realize. Your view of your life and circumstance is very limited and self centered. You don't seem to really comprehend the gravity of your actions and the effect but you really need to if you want to move forward and improve your marriage and relationships
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thank you for posting.. I did not mention it because i mentioned i accept my part in getting us here.. I said to him i will take these tablets 2 times when he said 'i dont love u lets divorce' that was in the past. Not this time.i did not want to manipulate him.i really wanted to end my pain of hearing this man -who i thought would always love me- saying i dnt love u.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> thank you for posting.. I did not mention it because i mentioned i accept my part in getting us here.. I said to him i will take these tablets 2 times when he said 'i dont love u lets divorce' that was in the past. Not this time.i did not want to manipulate him.i really wanted to end my pain of hearing this man -who i thought would always love me- saying i dnt love u.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Your choice to say to him "if you divorce me I'll kill myself" was a firestorm of emotional weaponry. That was like tying him to the fence post outside while seeing a tornado headed right for him. THEN you threatened to BE the tornado that would actually take his life because he lied to you. MOST people would lie to you to keep you from killing yourself or them. Why should he be different? You created the environment that makes it unsafe for the truth to be told. When someone cannot tell their truth, they have just lost intimacy. Therefore their deepest needs go unmet and will eventually leave, IF they aren't running away to keep the knife out of their back, first. This is what I mean by emotional energy.. threatening to take pills to control someones choice is MASSIVE emotional energy. Your husband will choose to move away from that every time.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh and turnera, can you please give your ideas about the following two posts ? they are on the 16th page. 


Normally,when i go to work here is what we do.

i text when i get in to the vehicle and he texts back saying tc
i travel for 1 hour and text home when i go to work, he texts ok eat or something
he calls me around 8.30am
i call him around 11am
he calls me at lunch time
i call him at around 3.30pm
i text when i get in to the vehicle

calls are around 1 min each

so if i am doing the 180 we will not be doing any of this right?

we did not do in these few days too 



------------------------------------------------------------

he has done this before.but in those times i have cried and begged him etc. This time,i told him 'if you want a divorce i am ok with it. And if you are staying i will be happy to work on our issues' . And there is something a little strange.. I am not crying. I used to cry in the bathroom, cry till i fall asleep etc. But now its like im frozen. Not even a single tear since 2 weeks or so. Dont know if i should be happy sad or worried about it.


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## turnera

A 180 is not done to manipulate the situation. It's done to protect yourself from pain. We all told you moving out for a week is wrong and manipulative. You don't seem to understand the complexity of what you're dealing with. 

I guess if I were in your shoes, I would go home, sleep in a separate room just to reduce the tension of expectations, and start going to weekly therapy and let him do his thing. He has a lot of healing to do from what you did, and he has a lot of therapy he needs to deal with HIS bad FOO issues, but that's out of your control. All you should be focusing on right now is learning about what YOU can do to be a better person.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> A 180 is not done to manipulate the situation. It's done to protect yourself from pain. We all told you moving out for a week is wrong and manipulative. You don't seem to understand the complexity of what you're dealing with.
> 
> I guess if I were in your shoes, I would go home, sleep in a separate room just to reduce the tension of expectations, and start going to weekly therapy and let him do his thing. He has a lot of healing to do from what you did, and he has a lot of therapy he needs to deal with HIS bad FOO issues, but that's out of your control. All you should be focusing on right now is learning about what YOU can do to be a better person.


i am going tomorrow after the counseling session. i did not want to manipulate him. i wanted him to have some free time to think.


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## Blossom Leigh

Read the 180 and absorb it in this spirit...

I am ok with myself
I am ok being alone
I am learning to be healthy in my interactions
No one is responsible for that process but me
I no longer accept poor choices in myself nor someone towards me
I will choose better and ask those around me to choose better THEN ALLOW THEM TO DO THAT WITHOUT MANIPULATION
If you are Christian, add I will extend the grace and mercy extended me.
I want calm peaceful connections and I cannot achieve that being controlling or being controlled

I want my husband healed and whole, so I will allow him to find that without me if necessary.

I want myself healed and whole, so that I no longer have to weild the weapons of emotional control to force someone to love me. 

So yes, wish him well and stop chasing him
that means I want the best for you but I am choosing to remove my emotional pressure

You will stay where you choose

Sweet Girl... you know what... you are coming to the end of yourself. You are realizing that your control doesn't work, it backfires and THAT is actually a very good thing... because now, you can do something about it. Learn better. Love better. Loosen your grip and find peace for your heart.

When you feel yourself trying to control him tell yourself "I need to keep my eyes on my own paper." If he tries to control you tell him "keep your eyes on your own paper." That simple concept has REALLY helped my H and I and we were in BAD shape until about two months ago.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Read the 180 and absorb it in this spirit...
> 
> I am ok with myself i am ok with myself. more than ok. i am happy with myself.not to sound self centric,but me not begging him this time makes me feel good
> I am ok being aloneafter these days, i am ok being alone
> I am learning to be healthy in my interactions
> No one is responsible for that process but me
> I no longer accept poor choices in myself nor someone towards me
> I will choose better and ask those around me to choose better THEN ALLOW THEM TO DO THAT WITHOUT MANIPULATION
> If you are Christian, add I will extend the grace and mercy extended me.
> I want calm peaceful connections and I cannot achieve that being controlling or being controlled
> 
> I want my husband healed and whole, so I will allow him to find that without me if necessary.
> 
> I want myself healed and whole, so that I no longer have to weild the weapons of emotional control to force someone to love me.
> 
> So yes, wish him well and stop chasing him
> that means I want the best for you but I am choosing to remove my emotional pressure
> 
> You will stay where you choose
> 
> Sweet Girl... you know what... you are coming to the end of yourself. You are realizing that your control doesn't work, it backfires and THAT is actually a very good thing... because now, you can do something about it. Learn better. Love better. Loosen your grip and find peace for your heart.
> 
> When you feel yourself trying to control him tell yourself "I need to keep my eyes on my own paper." If he tries to control you tell him "keep your eyes on your own paper." That simple concept has REALLY helped my H and I and we were in BAD shape until about two months ago.


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## turnera

You're more than ok with yourself? You threaten suicide if a man says he doesn't want to be with you. You threaten to kill him if he says he doesn't love you. 

You're delusional.

You not begging him is ONE TINY STEP in the right direction. It is fleeting and unsubstantiable, and without long-term therapy, the first time he does it again, you'll be back to begging and crying and threatening.


----------



## bild-a-loco

Blossom Leigh said:


> Your choice to say to him "if you divorce me I'll kill myself" was a firestorm of emotional weaponry. That was like tying him to the fence post outside while seeing a tornado headed right for him. THEN you threatened to BE the tornado that would actually take his life because he lied to you. MOST people would lie to you to keep you from killing yourself or them. Why should he be different? You created the environment that makes it unsafe for the truth to be told. When someone cannot tell their truth, they have just lost intimacy. Therefore their deepest needs go unmet and will eventually leave, IF they aren't running away to keep the knife out of their back, first. This is what I mean by emotional energy.. threatening to take pills to control someones choice is MASSIVE emotional energy. Your husband will choose to move away from that every time.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

What Blossom said - you've painted him into a corner now. He sounds like an abusive guy, but sounds like you just shot down any chances to get any truth out of him.


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## turnera

I don't think he's abusive so much as dysfunctional. Many people grow up not realizing how to get what they want in a healthy way; finding-a-path is evidence of that. Hers was to try to manipulate him with tears and emotion; his was to try to manipulate her with hateful speech to GET her emotional and begging.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You're more than ok with yourself? You threaten suicide if a man says he doesn't want to be with you. You threaten to kill him if he says he doesn't love you.
> 
> You're delusional.
> 
> You not begging him is ONE TINY STEP in the right direction. It is fleeting and unsubstantiable, and without long-term therapy, the first time he does it again, you'll be back to begging and crying and threatening.


I am happy. that's how i feel. i didn't beg or cry, i removed myself from the hurtful situation for a few days and realized i am ok if he stays or not, that my life will go on.. And now i am ready to go back and see if we can resolve the problems. i am going to counseling today. i know i wont try suicide again-i did not try this time too,it was in the past- 
And i am ready to let the past be and focus on today and future.

"the first time he does it again"
I will not beg or cry or threaten, i will give him what he wants.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> I am happy. that's how i feel. i didn't beg or cry, i removed myself from the hurtful situation for a few days and realized i am ok if he stays or not, that my life will go on.. And now i am ready to go back and see if we can resolve the problems. i am going to counseling today. i know i wont try suicide again-i did not try this time too,it was in the past-
> And i am ready to let the past be and focus on today and future.
> 
> "the first time he does it again"
> I will not beg or cry or threaten, i will give him what he wants.


It is great to celebrate those successes along the way. You will have big and small ones to celebrate on this journey to choosing better.

Just make sure you are embracing the work you need to do. You've got a long road ahead of you. But you are absolutely right to celebrate the right ones made.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I don't think he's abusive so much as dysfunctional. Many people grow up not realizing how to get what they want in a healthy way; finding-a-path is evidence of that. Hers was to try to manipulate him with tears and emotion; his was to try to manipulate her with hateful speech to GET her emotional and begging.


i tried to say so many times that i did not want to manipulate him.. I just let out my emotions without control. Now,i will control.. So, if he wasnt just expressing his emotions without control and was doing it to get me emotional and begging why do you think he wanted that..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Try to tear this all down, peel it like an onion, down to your very most core being, and his as well. We avoid what hurts us, we go toward what makes us feel bad, and we try to change what we can so that most of it makes us feel good. He just tries to change things to make himself feel good.

In the book Getting The Love You Want, he says that we pick partners who will fill the 'holes' in our souls, the heartache our parents caused, by picking partners we think will heal us. Usually, we are mistaken. The more dysfunctional we are, the more likely we are to pick partners just as dysfunctional as WE are, thus ensuring NEITHER of us will have a partner capable of 'fixing' us.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> Blossom Leigh and turnera, can you please give your ideas about the following two posts ? they are on the 16th page.
> 
> 
> Normally,when i go to work here is what we do.
> 
> i text when i get in to the vehicle and he texts back saying tc
> i travel for 1 hour and text home when i go to work, he texts ok eat or something
> he calls me around 8.30am
> i call him around 11am
> he calls me at lunch time
> i call him at around 3.30pm
> i text when i get in to the vehicle
> 
> calls are around 1 min each
> 
> so if i am doing the 180 we will not be doing any of this right?
> 
> we did not do in these few days too
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> he has done this before.but in those times i have cried and begged him etc. This time,i told him 'if you want a divorce i am ok with it. And if you are staying i will be happy to work on our issues' . And there is something a little strange.. I am not crying. I used to cry in the bathroom, cry till i fall asleep etc. But now its like im frozen. Not even a single tear since 2 weeks or so. Dont know if i should be happy sad or worried about it.


The 180 is not about no contact. It's about avoiding emotional discussions and outbursts.

Those text are definitely not emotional anything. There is nothing wrong with sending them.


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## finding-a-path

i went to counseling. two hours.. lot of ground covered. i will update tomorrow. still letting it all sink in..


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## finding-a-path

so, before going, i wrote everything down from the start of our relationship to this problem. 
Counselor said, saying 'i dont love you'is his emotional weapon. And suicide was mine. He said my husband is doing this because he likes what happens after he says it. Begging and crying. So i was advised to stop that.i mentioned i am not begging and crying this time. 
Good news is his behavior can be changed with therapy. But,HE should have a need to change. He should be motivated. So i was advised to come with him next time. 
When i want to fight,he told me to wait 3 days and then see if i want to fight or not.. 
The volunteer counselor was more about me letting everything out and feeling better. This is result oriented and focused.i feel very good about going there. And i feel there is hope for us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyTurn

inarut said:


> I haven't posted but have been following your Story. What continually stands out to me is your suicide attempts and how that changed my entire outlook on your thread and how I viewed your husband. Having a mother who attempted suicide and an ex boyfriend who threatened it I am really taken back by your minimization of it and the effect it had on the the people who love you.sometimes it's used as a manipulative tool and I'm sorry If i am wrong bit I get that vibe from
> You. Just now you recapped your story and yet again failed to mention that pivotal piece. I think you Are more unbalanced and in need of help than you realize. Your view of your life and circumstance is very limited and self centered. You don't seem to really comprehend the gravity of your actions and the effect but you really need to if you want to move forward and improve your marriage and relationships
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I wish i could like this post 1000 times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## finding-a-path

my husband was a little caring today. He called me, he asked if i ate etc. I really hope we could get past this. I did a bit of reading on emotional weapons today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> my husband was a little caring today. He called me, he asked if i ate etc. I really hope we could get past this. I did a bit of reading on emotional weapons today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup:


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## finding-a-path

yesterday, i asked for ice cream and he got my favorite,we went shopping today.it went well. and this morning i hugged him after 2 weeks and he hugged me back.i did not ask or beg.just hugged and let go in less than a minute..


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## turnera

That's the way to do it - don't make a big deal about it, just make it safe to participate.


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## finding-a-path

today he said there is a religious event at a friend's house and he went.i can't stop feeling "is there really a religious event or is it another lie"i never thought this way before. i believed whatever he said. this feels painful.. not being able to fully trust him.

i always respected and loved his honesty. i thought he would never lie to me.there was huge respect... now, i am not sure about the things he says. and it feels very bad.. i wish he didn't lie to me..


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## Blossom Leigh

The biggest help in my relationship with my husband was not putting all my trust in him, but in God. 

My husband is going to fail me. When he does, depending on what it is I use my boundaries and accountability. Other than that I just let him be. 100% of my emotional needs does not belong on my husband. He wasn't built for that. 

What religious event was it?

Sounds like he may be looking for answers. Good for him.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> The biggest help in my relationship with my husband was not putting all my trust in him, but in God.
> 
> My husband is going to fail me. When he does, depending on what it is I use my boundaries and accountability. Other than that I just let him be. 100% of my emotional needs does not belong on my husband. He wasn't built for that.
> 
> What religious event was it?
> 
> Sounds like he may be looking for answers. Good for him.


It was an event where the members of a family gives away food to remember a deceased member.and a speech remembering him,given by a religious figure. sorry for the late reply... was busy because i had to do a question paper related to the exam.


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## finding-a-path

he told me his job is "depressing" and he has "hate" in his mind for his job. (he has some problems like having to stand up for 3 hours straight before a break of 20 min and problems with boss etc) also, he said he does not feel sexual desire now. i think he might be depressed...


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## finding-a-path

when the counselor asked what i expected from counseling these are the things i said

1)i would like my husband to be able to say " i am angry" after a fight without saying "i don't love you"

2)i would like my husband to be able to forgive without resentment after a fight

3)i would like my husband to be able to be friendly in 2-3 or 7 etc days after a fight without being angry for months

4)i want to learn how to get past his emotional wall and be close so that he feels secure with me again.

5) i would like him to be able to defend me against his mother etc

6) less time on social networks

the counselor said behavioral therapy would help.

now we have to book a date for counseling again. he is willing to come.


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## finding-a-path

I am afraid.. I feel me getting distant from him and i am afraid that i will not be able to have sex with him again because his rejection is starting to grow on me. I feel 'my needs (kisses,hugs,sex)are not being met,i am not loved so i should just be distant' i am afraid that if my desires fade,they wont come back..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

They can come back. Most people don't lose those feelings unless such problems persist for years. What you are likely feeling is just fleeting emotions due to your young age.

Have you guys started reading His Needs Her Needs yet? That will help him understand the importance of meeting your needs.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> I am afraid.. I feel me getting distant from him and i am afraid that i will not be able to have sex with him again because his rejection is starting to grow on me. I feel 'my needs (kisses,hugs,sex)are not being met,i am not loved so i should just be distant' i am afraid that if my desires fade,they wont come back..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its normal numbness to help you cope, stop focusing so much on him and spend some pamper time on yourself. When you practice kindness to yourself you will be shocked how he will perk up.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> They can come back. Most people don't lose those feelings unless such problems persist for years. What you are likely feeling is just fleeting emotions due to your young age.
> 
> Have you guys started reading His Needs Her Needs yet? That will help him understand the importance of meeting your needs.


i have started reading. i don't know if he will read. he ll just say no. but i will ask him..


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i have started reading. i *don't know if he will read*. he ll *just say no*. but i *will ask him*..


finding-a-path, do you see what's wrong with this?

You are putting ALL of your FUTURE in the hands of your HUSBAND.

You'll do the work but you don't expect HIM to, and you'll ASK him, knowing he won't do sh*t?

How do you expect your marriage to work, if you aren't willing to DEMAND that he do the same?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> finding-a-path, do you see what's wrong with this?
> 
> You are putting ALL of your FUTURE in the hands of your HUSBAND.
> 
> You'll do the work but you don't expect HIM to, and you'll ASK him, knowing he won't do sh*t?
> 
> How do you expect your marriage to work, if you aren't willing to DEMAND that he do the same?


i see now.. I never demanded anything. I just asked.thats what i am used to.. So, i asked and he said he will read later. I am going to make sure that he starts it today. And, i kind of demanded that he decide today if he wants to be with me or not. That didnt go well.he shouted at me saying he cant decide before the time he asked for. I must make sure that i stay on 180 and dont talk about such topics again. honestly, i am now starting to see these 'i dont love u' 'i want 3 months to decide if i want to stay because u said u will kill me' talks more as mind games and less as him dealing with things which are hurting him. And i told him i am not going through this again and he better be prepared to learn how to deal with fights if he stays. This is the last time im going through this. No more 'let's divorce' after every fight.he said ok.he will try to change with the help of therapy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Next date for therapy is july 9th.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Did I recommend that you read Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men yet? Please read it while you're waiting for him to 'decide' if he's going to 'try' to change.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Did I recommend that you read Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men yet? Please read it while you're waiting for him to 'decide' if he's going to 'try' to change.


you didn't. But funny thing is i searched for books on a previous time he did this and i found that book.i put it on the cart and we became ok after a month and i didnt buy the book.this time i will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Perfect. Let us now what you think when you're done with it.


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## finding-a-path

july 9th is the 1st therapy session.looking forward to it. No change in things yet.no hugs kisses or sex, doesnt say i love u etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Why should he?


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## Blossom Leigh

good question Turnera

be realistic about progress

and patient


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## finding-a-path

So the 1st joint therapy session is over. when i went alone i had already told the counselor about the whole story. so today he told my husband to tell what his problems are. he said

when he feels he is fed up with something/someone he does not like to be involved again. example- he stated a IT degree and stopped it halfway through. so counselor asked what made him fed up with the marriage. following are his reasons

1) fight in 2012. he thought he does things for me but when he asked me to bring something to him i asked why cant you do it. so he thought why should i do things for her? and got distant

2)he says i suspect him. reason, i asked what this female work colleague talked with him because i know she sleeps with several men(he told me) oh and, when he said he dislikes it when i ask, i stopped asking

3) he says i fight with my mother. well, i think i talk normally and it is very normal for a mother and daughter to disagree on things and make up. he did not see a mother-daughter relationship before this and i don't know how he can judge us . besides, it does not effect him or our marriage so why is that a reason for divorce? 

4) his mothers problem

then the counselor asked what would you think should be done to avoid these things? he said we should separate. 

counselor said these reasons are not accepted in court as reasons for divorce. 

and asked me what i think should be done to be happy. i told my list which i also told earlier but i think he wanted me to tell those in front of my husband


(those are 

1)i would like my husband to be able to say " i am angry" after a fight without saying "i don't love you"

2)i would like my husband to be able to forgive without resentment after a fight

3)i would like my husband to be able to be friendly in 2-3 or 7 etc days after a fight without being angry for months

4)i want to learn how to get past his emotional wall and be close so that he feels secure with me again.

5) i would like him to be able to defend me against his mother etc

6) less time on social networks)

then he told us my requests are fair and all of them could be achieved with therapy BUT if he has already decided to separate that therapy wont work. so he told my husband to think about it and decide if he wants to separate or if he wants to learn tools to deal with these. 

and he told us we both have weaknesses and he will take them one by one and deal with those if he is willing and if he comes to the point where he thinks "i want to learn these tactics to deal with these problems" instead of "there is no use in trying" 


so, he has till 16th July to decide.


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## finding-a-path

it all comes down to his motivation. if HE (husband) wants then only the counselor will provide a "treatment plan" and will guide us. counselor was very clear about it.


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## finding-a-path

and on the way home, i said shall we have milkshake.about 1 hour of traveling from there to home so i thought he would forget. but he remembered and got it for me. i don't know why he does these things if he doesn't love me.


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## turnera

He loves you. He just wants you to be all rainbows and unicorns. One of the all-time #1 complaints of men is that women just 'aren't satisfied.' In other words, men have to be admired; it's usually one of their top two Emotional Needs. If you aren't 100% happy with him, kissing his ass, treating him all lovey JUST LIKE HIS MOTHER, then you are wrong, bad, hurtful, and THE PROBLEM.

What's really going on here is that HE wants YOU to never have a problem with him; he doesn't understand women, he objectifies them, so he can't give them a 'real personality' in his mind. So when you don't just go with the flow, when you show initiative or unhappiness or aren't the blowup doll women are supposed to be, he retreats. 

It is VERY unlikely he will change. It would require him opening up and admitting that he has faults, that you had a right to not be happy with him. MAYBE if he goes back to counseling, you might have a chance. If he won't go back, you have none.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> He loves you. He just wants you to be all rainbows and unicorns. One of the all-time #1 complaints of men is that women just 'aren't satisfied.' In other words, men have to be admired; it's usually one of their top two Emotional Needs. yes as we have discussed earlier i think he does not want me to say "why did you said you would call me and then didnt call me?" etc he thinks these are little things and i shall not speak about these. in other words i do not have a right to complain. maybe it makes him think of himself as a failure even though im just expressing my displeasure only at not calling and not at EVERYTHING. If you aren't 100% happy with him, kissing his ass, treating him all lovey JUST LIKE HIS MOTHER, then you are wrong, bad, hurtful, and THE PROBLEM.the thing is his mother did not treat him that way. so maybe i have to make up for her too! i usually tell him how great he is , how great sex is etc but looks like that is not enough. there should be 5 positives for one negative? or was it 20 positives for 1 negative:scratchhead:
> 
> What's really going on here is that HE wants YOU to never have a problem with him; he doesn't understand women, he objectifies them,how did you get the idea that he objectifies women? why i asked is because i have felt that he thinks women are below men.certain comments have made me sense this but i don't know how you sensed this.i had the feeling but i did not know how to turn it to words so he can't give them a 'real personality' in his mind. So when you don't just go with the flow, when you show initiative or unhappiness or aren't the blowup doll women are supposed to be, he retreats. true that. and when i am not the "perfect doll" i get punished with all the things about divorce and silent treatment.
> 
> It is VERY unlikely he will change. It would require him opening up and admitting that he has faults, that you had a right to not be happy with him. MAYBE if he goes back to counseling, you might have a chance. If he won't go back, you have none.


let's see.i personally think that maybe if the counselor just gave the tools to deal with the problems and told him to come back it would have been better than saying "you decide if you want to work on this marriage and come back" but i guess the counselor wants to be sure that HE is motivated enough to try things


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## finding-a-path

the way his mother's sister tried to control me came up several times. i haven't told you all about her. he grew up in her home. she FORCED me to agree to live on rent when my parents were buying a land for us and we had the money to build a house.i said NO and she went crazy.. called me a ***** for not agreeing to what SHE wanted. she just wanted us to rent near her home so that she can control where we go, what we eat, how we spend our time and money etc.. then i stopped talking with her.

my husband told me when he was little she would fight with her husband and talk about divorce and leave home with my husband (who was in growing up years) i think that is what he is following.

and when she talks she is very loud.. i think when we fight,my husband fears that i would become like her and thus tries to control me by silent treatment etc. 

she is very very controlling. i think even when i ask something nicely he fears i am trying to be controlling like her.


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## finding-a-path

in other words he wants me to be without any of her habits. i don't scream like her but i think he feels if i am "allowed" to express myself i would eventually become her.


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## turnera

Yes, he wants you to be the mother he wishes he had. We often marry a copy of our dysfunctional parent, hoping that THIS time we will get the parent we wanted, that our partner will 'fix' the harm our parent did to us. The way he treats you is common for men who objectify women; I guess I sensed it because I'm married to one, too. The woman's ideas can never be as good as the man because, well, they're women and inferior.

Yes, the counselor knows that unless he buys in, it will be a waste of time. And she likely doesn't want you staying with him if he's not going to participate. I went through the same thing - finally got my H to go, but he never did a single thing outside the counselor's room to change - because I 'made' him go and he had no motivation to look at himself. Total waste of time and money.

Ultimately, what I learned is this: I can't make him change, I can't make him WANT to change. All I can do is change ME so that I am no longer dependent on what HE does. That's your job, too.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> in other words he wants me to be without any of her habits. i don't scream like her but i think he feels if i am "allowed" to express myself i would eventually become her.


You got it. Good job!

Now address that in therapy.

I don't think he's a bad person; I think he protects himself because he never grew up safe. IF he stays in therapy, he can learn to dismantle that wall he has around him.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Yes, he wants you to be the mother he wishes he had. We often marry a copy of our dysfunctional parent, hoping that THIS time we will get the parent we wanted, that our partner will 'fix' the harm our parent did to us. The way he treats you is common for men who objectify women; I guess I sensed it because I'm married to one, too. The woman's ideas can never be as good as the man because, well, they're women and inferior.
> 
> Yes, the counselor knows that unless he buys in, it will be a waste of time. And she likely doesn't want you staying with him if he's not going to participate. I went through the same thing - finally got my H to go, but he never did a single thing outside the counselor's room to change - because I 'made' him go and he had no motivation to look at himself. Total waste of time and money.the counselor is a male. didn't choose this particular one because of gender but because he is one of the top counselors but i think it will be easy for my husband to listen to this one because it's a male counselor.
> 
> Ultimately, what I learned is this: I can't make him change, I can't make him WANT to change. All I can do is change ME so that I am no longer dependent on what HE does. That's your job, too.


yes. so the ball is in his court. he has a deadline. he should take the decision.


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## finding-a-path

when i tell my mom "mom don't tell me to do that. i don't want to do that" about something she will shout a little we will be angry for a day and we will talk. we both don't have a problem with that.so i thought if we are ok why is it a BIG problem for him? why is it a problem for him at all? how i talk to my mom is our business. not his. but he said that is a reason for divorce. that's when i thought why is it that he says not to show angry face, why is it a problem if i have a fight with mom? then i thought he just wants me to be this docile woman.because he is afraid that i would be "uncontrollable" and "controlling" like his aunt.


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## finding-a-path

i am done with his needs her needs and i have ordered why does he do that. i did not give him his needs her needs. i felt HE should be willing to be in this marriage 1st and then i shall give the book to him. when HE wants to fulfill my needs that's when he should start getting to know them. but i think he knows the needs pretty well without even reading the book. because he fulfilled all before these fights.


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## finding-a-path

oh and this man (uncle) who is married to the aunt is a strange man too. my husband told me that he orders the food to be removed from the dining table at 9pm whether everybody ate or not.


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## Blossom Leigh

Something you need to add to your arsenal of education is studying PTSD. Very real possibility he has a form of it called Complex PTSD. You will need to understand what "triggers" are.


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## finding-a-path

he agreed to counseling. he is willing to try to change the way he behaves in fights, he would like to be able to forgive without resentment, be able to say i am angry without talking about divorce every time we fight etc. i am hopeful. we will see...


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## turnera

willing to try to change...HAS he changed?


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> willing to try to change...HAS he changed?


I think the first change I see is now he has desire to change present where as before he didn't... this is a great and necessary first step... now the actions have to be watched.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> willing to try to change...HAS he changed?


he has not changed. but he now accepts that he needs help to deal with this. i think that is a good 1st step.. 

still no kisses hugs etc


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## turnera

Again, is he doing anything? He can SAY he needs help til the cows come home; doesn't mean he's going to do anything about it. The oldest story in the world is that the wife wants the husband to change, he agrees to change to shut her up, she lets up the pressure, and he goes back to doing NOTHING.

I'm glad you have hope. Just don't let that hope stop your momentum to get a different result.,


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## finding-a-path

So... adding an update about what is going on. tomorrow our 2nd therapy day.as i have mentioned he says that he wants to change his behavior. so let's see what happens...

I have made it clear to him that i will not trust that he loves me until he demonstrates that he can handle conflicts without saying "i don't love you". he says he is ready and willing to learn how to solve conflicts.

last night i woke up around 2am and he was awake. reading a book on ipad. i asked why he was awake and he said he woke in the middle of the night and couldn't go back to sleep.so i went to the bathroom and came back to bed. he put the ipad away and hugged me.it's the 1st time he initiated cuddling after May 1st.. 

he has told me "i don't love you lets divorce" many times in the past and i was hurt every time. but every time when after a month or so he was ready to touch me, i just accepted it.. and got hurt again the next time. this time, i don't want a next time. so he will have to be prepared to love me without wanting to break up every 6 months if he wants me in his life.. because i don't deserve to go through the pain,loneliness,rejection every 6 months...


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## finding-a-path

in short i am not a doll which he can use and throw away whenever he feels like it to be picked up again when he wants to..


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> in short i am not a doll which he can use and throw away whenever he feels like it to be picked up again when he wants to..


That is exactly right.


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## turnera

path, while there, ask the counselor about proper boundaries around this subject and the resulting consequences that should occur. To stop there being a 'next time.'


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## finding-a-path

SO.. we went to counseling on 31st July and a few things has happened since then. 

1st, i ll explain what was said at the session. therapist explained to him that by saying divorce, i don't love you etc he is trying to punish me when i do/say something he doesn't like. but his "punishment" does not fit with what i did. if i did something to hurt him, he can be angry/not talking but he should not threaten extreme measures etc and that we shall agree how many days we will not talk etc when one offends the other. he was given advice on how to let go etc. he accepted that threatening divorce is his flaw and he agreed to work towards developing a way by which we will resolve conflict. a sort of "system". 


about his mothers problem therapist told me i will have to think about it from his side and agree to have her at our house. but, i did not get a chance to talk about the incident of her shouting at me and about boundaries she will have to follow if she is here. (about which me and husband both should agree BEFORE she comes here) so i will talk about that on next session.


then the therapist told us to have 1 hour set aside each day for talking. we did it for 3 days and i think it went well.(other days he was at work) 

then we were advised on some other things to do and we are to go back in a month.

on AUG 5th he said he loves me. i said i don't trust your ever changing love. he has promised that it wont change this time.i said lets see. i haven't even said i love you to him yet. because i don't want to accept his "i love you" only to be told "i don't love you" in 3 months.this time i want him to understand that i am not his toy to be taken and thrown away whenever he likes.
he is being nice to me but i want to wait and see if it is the truth.

my book finally arrived (why does he do that) but now my exam date has been set and i want to do the exam 1st and then start reading. 

he promises that this time he wont say "let's divorce" but i think he has a lot of therapy ahead of him if he wants to make that promise a reality. he is willing to learn though. he has been doing what the therapist said and i feel he is trying to learn to let go of past fights etc..


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, while there, ask the counselor about proper boundaries around this subject and the resulting consequences that should occur. To stop there being a 'next time.'


thanks to this post, i was able to discuss the boundaries regarding fights.


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## turnera

Decent progress. I thought he was going to his own IC? What happened to that?

So what are the boundaries/consequences on the fights?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Decent progress. I thought he was going to his own IC? What happened to that?
> 
> So what are the boundaries/consequences on the fights?


on august 12th he promised that we will argue, stay angry for maximum 2days and make up. That eve, he was watching women singing on youtube. I asked you were not in to these.y are you watching? He said he wants to etc. Then i said dont watch. Just listen to the song.he said ok
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

yesterday morning, he called,i asked if he is watching vdo or working.he said working. Then he sent me a text saying you are trying to control me. I called he said i am going to watch videos.i said i dont have time to talk.then he has told my mother i control him.he wants to leave. Yes,he said he would never say it and he said it..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

then he said he is moving out.i asked is an argument about a video making u decide to leave? He said that and mothers issue.says i controlled him by saying his mother should come after exam.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA

It sounds like he has made little progress. It even sounds a bit like he has had one foot out the door for too long and maybe it's time to push him all the way out so he understands exactly what it is to be outside that door. Enough threats, it's about time he lived with his choices imo.


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## finding-a-path

breeze said:


> It sounds like he has made little progress. It even sounds a bit like he has had one foot out the door for too long and maybe it's time to push him all the way out so he understands exactly what it is to be outside that door. Enough threats, it's about time he lived with his choices imo.


i thought we made some progress after therapy on 31st July. But it seems we are back at 0. I said dont watch these.i accept that.i said sorry. You watch whatever you want. Why i said dont watch pls is because i dont like him praising these women saying things like 'amazing woman' when he does not praise me ever. So yes.i said dont,he said im controlling,i said sorry.he said im leaving lets divorce. Back at the start! And then my mother came to our home and told him son,couples fight then make up why do u say you want to leave? He said i tried to control and because of his mother's issue. He said he is hurt because he could not take in his mother when she wanted. Me saying wait till exam is over is the problem.. so my mother said theres not even 1 month left for exam so take her in after that.he said no she will not come here now so he is going to rent a house and live with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped

Let me see if I have this correct....

You told your husband to quit watching videos of female singers because he praises their ability to have a recording contract based of years of voice lessons, but you don't and you got jealous and since he won't give YOU praise, you told him he can't view it any more...


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## finding-a-path

Revamped said:


> Let me see if I have this correct....
> 
> You told your husband to quit watching videos of female singers because he praises their ability to have a recording contract based of years of voice lessons, but you don't and you got jealous and since he won't give YOU praise, you told him he can't view it any more...


i dont want a recording contract.i would like him to praise me for what i do for him.i requested not to watch the video and listen to audio because of the way those women were dressed. He said ok.then while i was busy at work he said he wants to watch etc then i said i dont have time to talk.and by the time i got home he decided he wants a divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

he said he will move out on friday. I think i will better learn how to forget him and move forward? I do not know how to stop loving him. And from the morning,i have been remembering our memories. 2-3 weeks ago my foot was hurt and he hugged me so protectively. I ve been thinking of the past 8 years and crying. So this is how death of a marriage feels like. I love him.. But he has selected his mother... I just wish he knew how to stay without saying let's divorce for everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Independent

finding-a-path said:


> But he has selected his mother... I just wish he knew how to stay without saying let's divorce for everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don't know if he selected his mom. Maybe he's tired of living with a controlling wife? Telling him not to watch female singers is controlling.


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## finding-a-path

spinsterdurga said:


> I don't know if he selected his mom. Maybe he's tired of living with a controlling wife? Telling him not to watch female singers is controlling.


i told him lets talk about it later.. He could have told me in the eve that he wants to watch it etc.but he said he wouldnt watch.then next day he started an argument and decided on divorce. Like he has done 5-6 times before
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

breeze said:


> It sounds like he has made little progress. It even sounds a bit like he has had one foot out the door for too long and maybe it's time to push him all the way out so he understands exactly what it is to be outside that door. Enough threats, it's about time he lived with his choices imo.


Of course he's made no progress. They went to ONE SESSION!

But path, WHY were you controlling what he can watch? And yes, you WERE being controlling. What, are you his mother and he's a 10 year old you have to protect from suggestive videos? That makes no sense whatsoever. Stop that.


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> he said no she will not come here now so he is going to rent a house and live with her.


Honestly, good. BOTH of you are too immature to be married. And he belongs with his mom if she's more important than you. Although, if one's parent needs to be cared for, she should be cared for.


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i told him lets talk about it later.


AFTER you told him to stop.

Because of YOUR insecurities. 

If he's being a douche husband and not appreciating you, address THAT. Don't try to control his access to anything else you feel he might appreciate more than you. 

IIWY, I'd spend the next therapy session yourself, tell the therapist about this - and be HONEST - and see what she says.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Of course he's made no progress. They went to ONE SESSION!
> 
> But path, WHY were you controlling what he can watch? And yes, you WERE being controlling. What, are you his mother and he's a 10 year old you have to protect from suggestive videos? That makes no sense whatsoever. Stop that.


I didn't think much about it.he has never watched such things before so i wondered why he was doing it. then we had an argument. then next day he texted me while i was at work saying he wants to watch those.it just got out of control real fast after that. he called his mother and complained that i control him, she said divorce is a good decision.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Honestly, good. BOTH of you are too immature to be married. And he belongs with his mom if she's more important than you. Although, if one's parent needs to be cared for, she should be cared for.


he said she does not want to be ill treated here.so she won't come here so he shall go and be with her.what do you think? do i just watch it and not say anything while he goes? or do i request him to stay?


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> AFTER you told him to stop.
> 
> Because of YOUR insecurities.
> 
> If he's being a douche husband and not appreciating you, address THAT. Don't try to control his access to anything else you feel he might appreciate more than you.
> 
> IIWY, I'd spend the next therapy session yourself, tell the therapist about this - and be HONEST - and see what she says.


i will go to therapy for myself. since he is moving out there is no hope for this marriage...?


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## turnera

I have to be honest, path. I don't think either one of you is strong enough, emotionally healthy enough, to be married. I think he has a LOT of problems that will NEVER be fixed without years of therapy, and only then if he really wants to change (which I doubt). I think you'll divorce, you'll get IC and mature and change how you do things, and find a healthier partner. I think he will NOT get help, and he'll either spend the rest of his life with his mom or else con another woman into marrying him who won't expect anything of him, and his life will deteriorate.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I have to be honest, path. I don't think either one of you is strong enough, emotionally healthy enough, to be married. I think he has a LOT of problems that will NEVER be fixed without years of therapy, and only then if he really wants to change (which I doubt). I think you'll divorce, you'll get IC and mature and change how you do things, and find a healthier partner. I think he will NOT get help, and he'll either spend the rest of his life with his mom or else con another woman into marrying him who won't expect anything of him, and his life will deteriorate.


he was going to move out today.but he has work today and he will move out on 16th.. I do not know how i will deal with this pain. I cant just forget 8 years.and i cant stop loving him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i cant cope with this. Will moving out be the end of us? I think so.i dont know how to move fwd. I still love him. He didnt even want to look at me today and said he will never have feelings for me again. Can feelings that were there for 8 years just be gone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA

finding-a-path said:


> i cant cope with this. Will moving out be the end of us? I think so.i dont know how to move fwd. I still love him. He didnt even want to look at me today and said he will never have feelings for me again. Can feelings that were there for 8 years just be gone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Apparently yes, they can just be gone. He's probably been detaching from you for quite some time. All this time he's been saying he wants to divorce he's been working towards actually doing it, while you've been holding desperately to the thought that he wasn't serious. He's way further along in the break up process than you are, he probably won't even shed a tear, while you'll shed a thousand. You need to start seeing the situation as it really is rather than how you wish it was.

It's about time to start treating him like an adult. If he wants to live elsewhere, that's his choice, accept it. If he wants to divorce, accept it. Start grieving; it'll be a long slow process but you'll come out of the other side one day and move on with your life. Hopefully you'll also grow and learn from this experience and make better choices next time.


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## finding-a-path

breeze said:


> Apparently yes, they can just be gone. He's probably been detaching from you for quite some time. All this time he's been saying he wants to divorce he's been working towards actually doing it, while you've been holding desperately to the thought that he wasn't serious. He's way further along in the break up process than you are, he probably won't even shed a tear, while you'll shed a thousand. You need to start seeing the situation as it really is rather than how you wish it was.
> 
> It's about time to start treating him like an adult. If he wants to live elsewhere, that's his choice, accept it. If he wants to divorce, accept it. Start grieving; it'll be a long slow process but you'll come out of the other side one day and move on with your life. Hopefully you'll also grow and learn from this experience and make better choices next time.


 Thank you for your reply. Yes, he has resentments inside about every argument we ever had.so he has been building up negative feelings about me. Divorce will be easy for him.. I just cant forget the past,the feelings and the dreams we had. This is the lowest low of my life. I dont think i will ever stop loving him. It is because of that love i went to therapy with him for him to say 'im angry' instead of 'i want a divorce' every time we argue. But,even before we could complete therapy here came another argument and he said 'divorce' again. I accept that it was wrong of me to say dont watch.but then i said im sorry. I have a huge problem.when i am near my periods,i become irritated and worried over things i dont usually care about...then i bicker and he starts the divorce talk.. This time since he has told his relatives and friends i think it will happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

It needs to.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> It needs to.


I am sorry. but what did you mean..?


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## turnera

The divorce needs to happen.

path, you are WAY TOO CODEPENDENT to be married to this man. You have things that need to be addressed in a lot of therapy. He has things that will probably NEVER be addressed in therapy.

THIS MARRIAGE CANNOT SUCCEED. It can only get worse. You're letting your immature belief that you can't live without him (cue the dramatic music as the man rides off into the sunset) guide what SHOULD be guided by your head, your brain.

So the best solution is to let him leave, YOU to get into therapy, and wait and see if HE will get into therapy (here's a bet: he won't). Maybe later, after you've both gotten healthier and learned better solutions, you can try again. But the relationship you have right now is TOXIC and doomed to fail.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> The divorce needs to happen.
> 
> path, you are WAY TOO CODEPENDENT to be married to this man. You have things that need to be addressed in a lot of therapy. He has things that will probably NEVER be addressed in therapy.
> 
> THIS MARRIAGE CANNOT SUCCEED. It can only get worse. You're letting your immature belief that you can't live without him (cue the dramatic music as the man rides off into the sunset) guide what SHOULD be guided by your head, your brain.
> 
> So the best solution is to let him leave, YOU to get into therapy, and wait and see if HE will get into therapy (here's a bet: he won't). Maybe later, after you've both gotten healthier and learned better solutions, you can try again. But the relationship you have right now is TOXIC and doomed to fail.


it is not that i can't live without him. i can. i lived 2 decades before he came in to my life...

what bothers me is i can't forget the memories or stop loving him. he says he will leave and file for divorce.


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## turnera

No one is telling you to forget. But scrambling to hold on to something toxic is not a healthy move.

When you say 2 decades, do you mean you were 40 before you met him?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> No one is telling you to forget. But scrambling to hold on to something toxic is not a healthy move.
> 
> When you say 2 decades, do you mean you were 40 before you met him?


no:scratchhead: 20 years.


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## finding-a-path

after he moves out tomorrow i shall not contact him ?


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> no:scratchhead: 20 years.


 So you did technically live 20 years before him, but you basically got with him when you first started acting in an adult capacity. So there's no strength in saying 'I'm not codependent, I was fine without him.' Not as an adult, you weren't.

Look, I'm not trying to bash you. I'm trying to get you to see this is toxic and if you ever hope to have ANY sort of healthy relationship with him, you two need to be apart so you can both do work to become healthy emotionally on your own.

And, no, once he moves out, you do NOT contact him. Not for at least a month or two.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> So you did technically live 20 years before him, but you basically got with him when you first started acting in an adult capacity. So there's no strength in saying 'I'm not codependent, I was fine without him.' Not as an adult, you weren't.
> 
> Look, I'm not trying to bash you. I'm trying to get you to see this is toxic and if you ever hope to have ANY sort of healthy relationship with him, you two need to be apart so you can both do work to become healthy emotionally on your own.
> 
> And, no, once he moves out, you do NOT contact him. Not for at least a month or two.



that's what i thought. he is leaving because he does not love me,does not want me in his life so there is no need for me to contact and beg him right? if any of his loving feelings are left, he will take time to clear his mind and contact me right? that is the pattern along which i am thinking. please tell me if i am wrong. 


but, i am afraid about one thing. that is, he is going to be with his mom,she hates me and i am afraid that she will encourage him to divorce and she will find someone else for him (she told me "i did not want someone educated,working and beautiful like you for my son.i wanted someone who will take care of us" us means his elders. she then told me about this other woman who is having a relationship with someone from his family.and said that woman brings food for elders,gets a finger bowl for them, brings water when elders want etc)


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> he said she does not want to be ill treated here.so she won't come here so he shall go and be with her.what do you think? do i just watch it and not say anything while he goes? or do i request him to stay?


Are you serious?? I would hold the door open for him!!


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> that's what i thought. he is leaving because he does not love me,does not want me in his life so there is no need for me to contact and beg him right? if any of his loving feelings are left, he will take time to clear his mind and contact me right? that is the pattern along which i am thinking. please tell me if i am wrong.
> 
> *
> but, i am afraid about one thing. that is, he is going to be with his mom,she hates me and i am afraid that she will encourage him to divorce and she will find someone else for him* (she told me "i did not want someone educated,working and beautiful like you for my son.i wanted someone who will take care of us" us means his elders. she then told me about this other woman who is having a relationship with someone from his family.and said that woman brings food for elders,gets a finger bowl for them, brings water when elders want etc)


This would be the biggest gift this woman could possibly give you! The man is an ass, let him go, and free yourself up for some happiness to finally enter your life!


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## turnera

path, just so you understand: Most men do not treat women the way he treats you. Most men NEVER threaten to leave you or divorce you. Most don't up and disappear because you dare say something that makes him uncomfortable. Most don't manipulate you by guilting you over treatment of his mother. Most move ON from their mother and put their wife first. Most never make you wonder if you're bad or guilty or worthless.

Most men are BETTER than your husband is, currently. So once you do divorce him and get out in the real world and see how real men treat real women, you're going to kick yourself for hanging onto this false hope of turning him into a man who could make you feel good. You're just too deep into the dysfunction to understand that yet. Once you're away from him, you'll start to see what we've all been telling you.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, just so you understand: Most men do not treat women the way he treats you. Most men NEVER threaten to leave you or divorce you. Most don't up and disappear because you dare say something that makes him uncomfortable. Most don't manipulate you by guilting you over treatment of his mother. Most move ON from their mother and put their wife first. Most never make you wonder if you're bad or guilty or worthless.
> 
> Most men are BETTER than your husband is, currently. So once you do divorce him and get out in the real world and see how real men treat real women, you're going to kick yourself for hanging onto this false hope of turning him into a man who could make you feel good. You're just too deep into the dysfunction to understand that yet. Once you're away from him, you'll start to see what we've all been telling you.


yes.i said dont watch videos of those women if he wants to listen to the song why not listen to audio.he said fine. Next day only he wanted to argue about it. I wonder if he told his mother when she called that morning and she is the one who said i am controlling him.and added 'that day TOO your wife controlled you by not letting me come'. I said sorry.i said ok you watch then (even though i think its strange that he started watching these out of the blue) i said lets talk about it when i am home. But he decided on divorce even before i came home. Just as he decided to divorce me when i talked about moving a bed downstairs,when i cried because he was on the phone with a friend for 1 hour in the middle of a shared activity ignoring me,when he asked me to get something related to domestic work i did bring it but later asked why did you tell me to lift it when you could have done it? Etc. I care about him,i want him to be happy.i will never treat him the way he treats me. Yesterday he said he does not love me,does not have sexual feelings for me etc. Which hurt just like it hurt the previous times he told me those things. On 12th, he said he loves me,wants to touch me,on 13th that changed to he doesnt love me,doesnt want to touch me. I wonder what the heck is wrong with him.is it the bipolar or something else.. He is not even sad to leave.and i dont think he will miss me.because he is very good at feeling only anger and not feeling other emotions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

he is packing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped

Is it bipolar?

Nobody knows.

What everyone can agree on... 

This won't last.


There is no foundation of Love, Respect, Honor

Motivation, titalation, passion, and a whole host of -ation words to back up your relationship.

Let him go. You'll both be better off.


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## finding-a-path

Revamped said:


> Is it bipolar?
> 
> Nobody knows.
> 
> What everyone can agree on...
> 
> This won't last.
> 
> 
> There is no foundation of Love, Respect, Honor
> 
> Motivation, titalation, passion, and a whole host of -ation words to back up your relationship.
> 
> Let him go. You'll both be better off.


everything is ready. He went out i think to come in a vehicle. Letting go is not easy.i love him and want to save my marriage.. But he doesnt. His love changes every 3-4 months. I am feeling a void inside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

just 1 hour for him to leave.its all packed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA

finding-a-path said:


> just 1 hour for him to leave.its all packed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You'll be okay. It'll hurt, you will grieve, but you'll be okay. Just know that the pain doesn't last forever. This is a chance for a new beginning for you.

I suggest you read, "Getting the Love you Want" by Harville Hendrix. It can really help give you some insight into yourself and this learning process will be crucial for you to create a successful relationship next time.


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## finding-a-path

breeze said:


> You'll be okay. It'll hurt, you will grieve, but you'll be okay. Just know that the pain doesn't last forever. This is a chance for a new beginning for you.
> 
> I suggest you read, "Getting the Love you Want" by Harville Hendrix. It can really help give you some insight into yourself and this learning process will be crucial for you to create a successful relationship next time.


it hurts like hell. I have the exam coming up in less than a month. I am having to stay alone at home now. Sleep alone in The bed we shared. Use the bathroom we shared. There are memories everywhere.. Little reminders of him are everywhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

he did not care that i ll be alone.i was just standing there and he said ok i am leaving and went... Everyday before today,when he left for work etc he made sure to drop me off at my parents home.. I am shaking... Feel like my life is over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

THIS MAN WHO ASKED ME IF I ATE ,told me he arrived safely when he went somewhere for 8years did not even send one text today.he left and then did not even inquired if i am alone at our home or if i went to my parents home.... what can i do to go on? to either make up so that he comes home or to forget him and stop loving him...?


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## finding-a-path

on 12th he said he loves me and we shall forget the problems on 13th it's "i dont love you let's divorce"


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## finding-a-path

turnera,Blossom Leigh i wish you were here... i need some support. so, he did not ask me if i am alone at our home, he did not say he went safely like he did before. but i see that he has posted a pic on Facebook from work.and he is wearing the shirt i gave him last week... what does that say...? he can wear it without even thinking of me? he does not even remember that i gave it..? he does not post pics from work often... he has not removed me from his Facebook account.


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> turnera,Blossom Leigh i wish you were here... i need some support. so, he did not ask me if i am alone at our home, he did not say he went safely like he did before. but i see that he has posted a pic on Facebook from work.and he is wearing the shirt i gave him last week... what does that say...? he can wear it without even thinking of me? he does not even remember that i gave it..? he does not post pics from work often... he has not removed me from his Facebook account.


Ok, its just a shirt, dont read so much into it. 

You may not realize it, but him not contacting you and checking on you is actually a good thing. It avoids drama opening up and you getting hurt over and over. Would you really want it thrown in your face by him how this is what he wants and doesnt love you, etc...? Get out of the house, you need to distance yourself a little bit, you are immersed in it all right now. Hang in there.


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## finding-a-path

3Xnocharm said:


> Ok, its just a shirt, dont read so much into it.
> 
> You may not realize it, but him not contacting you and checking on you is actually a good thing. It avoids drama opening up and you getting hurt over and over. Would you really want it thrown in your face by him how this is what he wants and doesnt love you, etc...? Get out of the house, you need to distance yourself a little bit, you are immersed in it all right now. Hang in there.


hmm.yes.. And no contact from him means he will miss me at some point.and i am not contacting because i dont want to beg. I dont want to say 'i love you.i need you.come back' etc. I am wondering if he ate etc. But not going to ask.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

breeze said:


> I suggest you read, "Getting the Love you Want" by Harville Hendrix. It can really help give you some insight into yourself and this learning process will be crucial for you to create a successful relationship next time.


I SO agree! Aside from His Needs Her Needs, this is the single best book I know for getting a good marriage.


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## turnera

Path, go to your family and stay with them. Let them keep you occupied. And for heaven's sake, get an appointment for a therapist on Monday! You need professional help.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Path, go to your family and stay with them. Let them keep you occupied. And for heaven's sake, get an appointment for a therapist on Monday! You need professional help.


therapist is available only after 2 weeks. i ll go then.. today i have class. i am going. 

i am still shocked that he could just forget our memories and dreams...


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> hmm.yes.. And no contact from him means he will miss me at some point.and i am not contacting because i dont want to beg. I dont want to say 'i love you.i need you.come back' etc. I am wondering if he ate etc. But not going to ask.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you for not contacting. You do realize, dont you, that if he comes back, then things go right back to the misery they have been all along?


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## finding-a-path

3Xnocharm said:


> Good for you for not contacting. You do realize, dont you, that if he comes back, then things go right back to the misery they have been all along?


i am thinking that if he comes back we will continue therapy. We were doing ok for 2weeks when he decided to leave.. Thank you for the reply.i feel alone.so having someones support means a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Openminded

If he dropped you off every day at your family's, can't you go see them?

Don't beg or plead or look needy. Go no contact. Tell yourself you can get through this. Because you can.


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## 3Xnocharm

You can do therapy while he is not living there. But I dont think that he really wants to work on things. You dont deserve a husband who constantly threatens divorce.


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> If he dropped you off every day at your family's, can't you go see them?
> 
> Don't beg or plead or look needy. Go no contact. Tell yourself you can get through this. Because you can.


up to now i didnt contact.but its just been 20 hours or something. Maintaining no contact thing is the hard part. I can go see them.i went to see them.my mother had to come and pick me up. He left without even calling my mother to say that he is leaving me alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

3Xnocharm said:


> You can do therapy while he is not living there. But I dont think that he really wants to work on things. You dont deserve a husband who constantly threatens divorce.


he left to divorce.so he would not go to therapy.if he comes back that means he wants to be with me.then he would go to therapy... we went 1 day,he agreed not to mention divorce.then in 2 weeks he mentioned divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

should i be feeling angry by now..? I mean this man promised to be together till death do us apart and left me hanging. He caused me pain. Rejected me. But i am yet to feel anger. I feel sad for the lost dreams, lost marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> should i be feeling angry by now..? I mean this man promised to be together till death do us apart and left me hanging. He caused me pain. Rejected me. But i am yet to feel anger. I feel sad for the lost dreams, lost marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The anger will come. The anger will be what helps pull you through this.


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## finding-a-path

i saw him on facebook all day.. It indicates he is there. So i am thinking he did not set up a work place yet. (he works from home on daytime) and he sleeps on day time too.which i guess he didnt do today too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

we had an agreement that he will not add unknown females on fb and i will not add unknown males..... i think when he said i am controlling him he also included that.before going he said he ll be free to do whatever he wants.. now i see that he has added females and liked their photos too...!!

what do you think? is it ok for married men to add random females and like their photos?


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## finding-a-path

the following are the things i requested him not to do.can someone please tell me what requests are "controlling" and what are normal things a married man should not do.../a man would do or stop doing if his woman requests...




1)i requested him before i married him to stop drinking and smoking.he agreed.now he says i am controlling

2) i requested him not to chat with other women and not to add other women on fb. (to avoid trouble,he had added women and called them sweetie baby etc on the past)

3) i requested him to not watch porn (and not watch the videos recently)

4)i made my objection known when he wanted a tattoo.

i dont remember anything else now but i will add if i do.


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## turnera

You WOULD be angry if you had any self worth. But you don't. Your low self worth is what's making you think you can't live without him. Your lack of experience with other men for your whole adult life is what makes you think what he does is tolerable. You haven't dated any healthy, normal men so you can't compare what he does.

That's why you need therapy.


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> we had an agreement that he will not add unknown females on fb and i will not add unknown males..... i think when he said i am controlling him he also included that.before going he said he ll be free to do whatever he wants.. now i see that he has added females and liked their photos too...!!
> 
> what do you think? is it ok for married men to add random females and like their photos?


path, no offense, but you aren't quite getting it. I don't know why you can't understand he IS LEAVING YOU. He doesn't WANT to be married to you. He WANTS to date other women. He's told you half a dozen ways that he wants out. This isn't some pretend, trial separation to GET him to want you again. It's not going to happen. He's done.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> the following are the things i requested him not to do.can someone please tell me what requests are "controlling" and what are normal things a married man should not do.../a man would do or stop doing if his woman requests...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1)i requested him before i married him to stop drinking and smoking.he agreed.now he says i am controlling
> 
> 2) i requested him not to chat with other women and not to add other women on fb. (to avoid trouble,he had added women and called them sweetie baby etc on the past)
> 
> 3) i requested him to not watch porn (and not watch the videos recently)
> 
> 4)i made my objection known when he wanted a tattoo.
> 
> i dont remember anything else now but i will add if i do.


 You have no right to request that he do ANYTHING. 

HE LEFT YOU.

He fully plans to start a new life without you. Please stop pretending he's coming back. Please stop pretending he believes he owes you any allegiance, to do what you request, any more. He doesn't believe it, and he won't do what you want. You guys got married too young and he's been wanting to be single for a long time. Now he's taking steps to be single.

The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can start thinking about YOUR future, a healthier one.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You have no right to request that he do ANYTHING.
> 
> HE LEFT YOU.
> 
> He fully plans to start a new life without you. Please stop pretending he's coming back. Please stop pretending he believes he owes you any allegiance, to do what you request, any more. He doesn't believe it, and he won't do what you want. You guys got married too young and he's been wanting to be single for a long time. Now he's taking steps to be single.
> 
> The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can start thinking about YOUR future, a healthier one.


i meant, when we were together,i requested those things.and he said ok. Now he says i controlled him by requesting those things.. So, what i want to do is what of the mentioned list could be listed as controlling and what could be named as the way a normal married man behaves?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You have no right to request that he do ANYTHING.
> 
> HE LEFT YOU.
> 
> He fully plans to start a new life without you. Please stop pretending he's coming back. Please stop pretending he believes he owes you any allegiance, to do what you request, any more. He doesn't believe it, and he won't do what you want. You guys got married too young and he's been wanting to be single for a long time. Now he's taking steps to be single.
> 
> The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can start thinking about YOUR future, a healthier one.


yes,he left but the day before,he said let's forget the problems, i love you etc and got me flowers. So.. Maybe he left because he is angry but he loves me..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

So?

He made NO EFFORT to change. 

He is telling you that if you don't kiss his ass, forgive him of everything, stop asking him to be a decent person, and SHUT THE HELL UP, he will leave. He is extorting you if he 'gives you another chance' - by leaving, he is telling you I WILL NOT KEEP YOU UNLESS YOU SHUT UP.

Is that all you deserve?


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i meant, when we were together,i requested those things.and he said ok. Now he says i controlled him by requesting those things.. So, what i want to do is what of the mentioned list could be listed as controlling and what could be named as the way a normal married man behaves?


path, let me ask you something.

How many people on here have told you what he does is ok?

How many of us have told you what he does it normal?

None.

And how many of us have told you that you are controlling? 

A lot.

So what does that mean? It means that BOTH of you have a lot of growing up to do. It means that NEITHER of you is going to do it if you stay together.


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## finding-a-path

How can a man be married to a woman for 4 years, take care of her,ask her if he ate etc for 4 years everyday and then stop everything out of the blue... I dont think i will get over this.. Why is this happening to me.. I trusted him more than my parents. Wow.the betrayal hurts like hell. To say that he lost his love because i requested him to ask his mother to come after the exam? What kind of a love is that!! so if i effin controlled him,he could have talked with me... Marriage means staying together through thick and thin.. Not saying i cant live with you and leaving when theres trouble.. I am on the way to work..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I know you're hurting, but you just have to find a way to accept that you don't have any control over this situation. You never did.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I know you're hurting, but you just have to find a way to accept that you don't have any control over this situation. You never did.


thank you for replying. You have been there for me for weeks... Yes it hurts. A friend and this forum are the support i have.. His change makes me lose faith in all the men.. I mean HOW? How can a man say i love you and say im leaving next day..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

this is very hard. Shall i start a new thread to just get some support to hang on? Or is it against the forum rules to open a thread just to vent...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

It's best to use just one thread. You can ask the mods to move it to a different section, though. 

And you ask how, but we keep telling you that he is not normal, not healthy. So there is no REASON to ask how, because he is not acting like a healthy man would act. Would you ask how a psychopath can kill a person? Of course not, because that person is incapable of caring about other peoples' lives. Just the same, your H is incapable of acting in loving ways; he may have SEEMED like he was being loving, but he was always tempering that against HIM getting what HE wanted. When he stopped getting what he wanted - a docile, silent, 'dumb' wife who treats him like a god - well, he dumped you. It's what they do.

You're still young. You're still desirable. You're still a good option for millions of healthy, loving men out there. You will get therapy, go for at least a couple years every month to learn to put this behind you and to learn how to pick a HEALTHY partner next time, and before you know it, you'll be in the marriage you should have been in from the first place, the marriage you'll have for the rest of your life. 

It just won't be with THIS guy.


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## Faeleaf

finding-a-path said:


> the following are the things i requested him not to do.can someone please tell me what requests are "controlling" and what are normal things a married man should not do.../a man would do or stop doing if his woman requests...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1)i requested him before i married him to stop drinking and smoking.he agreed.now he says i am controlling
> 
> 2) i requested him not to chat with other women and not to add other women on fb. (to avoid trouble,he had added women and called them sweetie baby etc on the past)
> 
> 3) i requested him to not watch porn (and not watch the videos recently)
> 
> 4)i made my objection known when he wanted a tattoo.
> 
> i dont remember anything else now but i will add if i do.


These are all controlling. 

Yes, of COURSE you want a man who does all these things. That's perfectly reasonable.

But you didn't *pick* a guy who doesn't smoke and drink, a guy who has strong boundaries with other woman, a guy who doesn't like tattoos. (I won't comment on the porn thing since I'm not sure there are any men who don't watch it, regardless of how often we wish there were.)

Instead, you picked a smoker, drinker, flirty guy who liked tattoos, and then tried to control him into being someone else...the guy you wanted all along (that he wasn't). That's the problem here.


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## finding-a-path

Faeleaf said:


> These are all controlling.
> 
> Yes, of COURSE you want a man who does all these things. That's perfectly reasonable.
> 
> But you didn't *pick* a guy who doesn't smoke and drink, a guy who has strong boundaries with other woman, a guy who doesn't like tattoos. (I won't comment on the porn thing since I'm not sure there are any men who don't watch it, regardless of how often we wish there were.)
> 
> Instead, you picked a smoker, drinker, flirty guy who liked tattoos, and then tried to control him into being someone else...the guy you wanted all along (that he wasn't). That's the problem here.


hmmm.so when a man says i will give up smoking for you, we shall not trust..? He will always turn around and say 'hey you are controlling me'...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> the following are the things i requested him not to do.can someone please tell me what requests are "controlling" and what are normal things a married man should not do.../a man would do or stop doing if his woman requests...
> 
> 1)i requested him before i married him to stop drinking and smoking.he agreed.now he says i am controlling
> 
> *Is the drinking an actual problem he has, or do you just not approve or like it? I understand the smoking, I hate it, but he has to want to quit for it to be successful. You knew these things going in, if it was a deal breaker, you should not have married. *
> 
> 2) i requested him not to chat with other women and not to add other women on fb. (to avoid trouble,he had added women and called them sweetie baby etc on the past)
> *
> Calling them sweetie and baby is out of line. Chatting is mostly unacceptable. Adding old friends is acceptable.*
> 
> 3) i requested him to not watch porn (and not watch the videos recently)
> 
> *Porn is understandable. But that last video issue sounded like a music video, am I right? If so, then you are very much out of line telling him he cant watch it. Ridiculous. *
> 
> 4)i made my objection known when he wanted a tattoo.
> *
> You are out of line on this one. Its his body, his decision. I would be pissed if my partner said I couldnt have (another!) tattoo. Unless its offensive or plastered on his face, then its not up to you to decide this. *
> 
> i dont remember anything else now but i will add if i do.


You for sure have some issues. Counseling would be really good for you I believe. Dont misunderstand, your H sounds like a real jerk. But own your part in this.


----------



## Faeleaf

finding-a-path said:


> hmmm.so when a man says i will give up smoking for you, we shall not trust..? He will always turn around and say 'hey you are controlling me'...?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's not about trust, or what he will come back later and say. That's what I was trying to explain. It's about even dating a guy who is obviously not the man you want to marry - a smoker, drinker, etc? 

You cannot be happy by finding just any old guy who will agree to marry you, then making him a project you attempt to shape into what you wanted all along. Yes, that is how you end up with an unhappy husband who accuses you of being "controlling." 

Marriage is hard enough, and you will find yourself making enough compromises to please each other, even if you _start out _with someone who you adore, just as they are.


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## Miss Taken

Stay off of his facebook. Go no contact,truly and don't look at his profile. It will only torture you to do so.


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## finding-a-path

3Xnocharm said:


> You for sure have some issues. Counseling would be really good for you I believe. Dont misunderstand, your H sounds like a real jerk. But own your part in this.


when he asked me out,i told him i cant go out with him because i dont like to be involved with some1 drinking/smoking. HE said he would stop. Then only i agreed to date him. Now he speaks like i forced him to stop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

chatting- when i got to know that he was chatting with other women (while we were dating) i told him it's not ok with me and we shall break up. HE said no i wouldnt chat,i want to be with u.now he talks like i forced him to be with me.if he wanted to chat with unknown women he should have not married me knowing i dont like it. The tattoo was not discussed before marriage.. Yes.those were music videos and a web page of photos and i understand i reacted badly,i said sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Faeleaf said:


> It's not about trust, or what he will come back later and say. That's what I was trying to explain. It's about even dating a guy who is obviously not the man you want to marry - a smoker, drinker, etc?
> 
> You cannot be happy by finding just any old guy who will agree to marry you, then making him a project you attempt to shape into what you wanted all along. Yes, that is how you end up with an unhappy husband who accuses you of being "controlling."
> 
> Marriage is hard enough, and you will find yourself making enough compromises to please each other, even if you _start out _with someone who you adore, just as they are.


i understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Miss Taken said:


> Stay off of his facebook. Go no contact,truly and don't look at his profile. It will only torture you to do so.


shall i block him? It still says he is married to me.. If i block him he might make THAT a reason not to return..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

hmm.. He is coming with his uncle to talk about this on 20th.he sent me a text saying that. I think Either he will come to pick up the rest of his stuff and to tell my parents about the divorce via his uncle. Or he will come to talk about the issues of control and mother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

do you really think it was bad of me to request her to come after my exam? She did not tell us about any illness at that time.she just said she wants to visit for 1 month.. So i thought if she comes after the exam i will be able to spend time with her too.i didnt think it will be this huge. Now they say i controlled my husband when he wanted to have her at our home. But,i have a right to express myself. If i had to agree to host her against my wish isnt that controlling..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Taken

Just stop looking at his profile. If you're worried about backlash about blocking him, just change your settings so his stuff doesn't pop up on your newsfeed so much. Better yet, stay off facebook altogether for a while until the urge to look at his facebook diminishes.

For your own sake though, stop checking up on him via facebook. It will NOT make you feel better.


----------



## finding-a-path

Miss Taken said:


> Just stop looking at his profile. If you're worried about backlash about blocking him, just change your settings so his stuff doesn't pop up on your newsfeed so much. Better yet, stay off facebook altogether for a while until the urge to look at his facebook diminishes.
> 
> For your own sake though, stop checking up on him via facebook. It will NOT make you feel better.


thank you. IF he wants to come back,after his uncle talks to me and him, how do i handle the talk? I will have to say fb chatting other women is not acceptable, explain the problem related to his mother,and talk about the controlling issue too? Cover everything and try to come to a solution right? Or do i say sorry and shut up about the chat issue?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA

finding-a-path said:


> do you really think it was bad of me to request her to come after my exam? She did not tell us about any illness at that time.she just said she wants to visit for 1 month.. So i thought if she comes after the exam i will be able to spend time with her too.i didnt think it will be this huge. Now they say i controlled my husband when he wanted to have her at our home. But,i have a right to express myself. If i had to agree to host her against my wish isnt that controlling..?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To be honest, I would've done the same if a relative, mine or husbands, said, "hey, I want to come stay for a month", I'd have said, "sure, after this date (exam date) is fine". Should've been no problem with that answer. Any reasonable person would completely understand. 

If the person couldn't give a fig about you or your commitments, then of course you'll be the nasty, selfish so and so who didn't give them what they wanted when they wanted it. Then because your husband is a pathetic Mummy's boy, he'll take the same view because compared to Mummy, you don't matter.

Be happy he's gone back to her imo, they deserve each other.


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> chatting- when i got to know that he was chatting with other women (while we were dating) i told him it's not ok with me and we shall break up. HE said no i wouldnt chat,i want to be with u.now he talks like i forced him to be with me.if he wanted to chat with unknown women he should have not married me knowing i dont like it. The tattoo was not discussed before marriage.. Yes.those were music videos and a web page of photos and i understand i reacted badly,i said sorry.


So you married a man of questionable morals who lied FREELY to you about anything you wanted to hear, having no intention of becoming a different person. 

He told you what you wanted to hear.

He lied to you.

(PS, please don't use chat speak here. It's really hard to read your posts when you don't capitalize words and put spaces between words and ends of sentences and use punctuation. Thanks!)


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> do you really think it was bad of me to request her to come after my exam? She did not tell us about any illness at that time.she just said she wants to visit for 1 month.. So i thought if she comes after the exam i will be able to spend time with her too.i didnt think it will be this huge. Now they say i controlled my husband when he wanted to have her at our home. But,i have a right to express myself. If i had to agree to host her against my wish isnt that controlling..?


Have you even READ what we say to you?

If you don't listen to the advice you get, all the OTHER times we've answered this question already, why should people keep responding to you? We've already answered this half a dozen times.

It's been two days. Where is your therapist?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> So you married a man of questionable morals who lied FREELY to you about anything you wanted to hear, having no intention of becoming a different person.
> 
> He told you what you wanted to hear.
> 
> He lied to you.
> 
> (PS, please don't use chat speak here. It's really hard to read your posts when you don't capitalize words and put spaces between words and ends of sentences and use punctuation. Thanks!)


That is very very difficult to come to terms with.... I am hurting so much. i don't know where to turn..



Sorry. When i post using my mobile phone i can't think much about those things.I post while i work.. So i have to be quick. I am using the thread to vent... (and also to get guidance) So i just take my phone and type and type. Sorry again.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Have you even READ what we say to you?
> 
> If you don't listen to the advice you get, all the OTHER times we've answered this question already, why should people keep responding to you? We've already answered this half a dozen times.
> 
> It's been two days. Where is your therapist?


Yes.I do read what everyone types for me.. But i had a moment of doubt.That is why i asked again if i was so bad,bad enough to divorce..


Therapist is available after 1 week. I have booked an appointment.


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## turnera

So glad you booked your appointment. If things get too bad, you can always call her/his office and tell them that you're having a really bad time, can they get you in sooner.

In the meantime, I want you to read a book for me. You can get it at any library. It's called His Needs Her Needs. It talks about what a healthy marriage looks like. It will show you what you should have been able to expect from your husband and also what YOU should have been providing him - and also what you don't HAVE to provide him. For instance, you don't have to give up all your needs just to keep HIM happy. Things like that. I think reading it will educate you a LOT about what your marriage should have looked like. That should help you understand better.

But this


> That is why i asked again if i was so bad,bad enough to divorce..


is just flat out low self-worth on your part. If you loved yourself, you would never even QUESTION whether you were bad enough to divorce. We all know you aren't. But YOU don't believe it. That's what you need the therapy for, ok?


----------



## Openminded

How much does the cultural aspect play into this? I would imagine most of us who have responded are Americans so perhaps we aren't understanding the cultural differences (I know I'm not) -- such as the fact that his uncle is coming with him and either he or his uncle will tell your parents if you are divorcing. That sounds like a culture where women don't have much power. And the fact that you have stood up to him means he and his family feel you are too controlling and not submissive enough. Is that correct?


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> So glad you booked your appointment. If things get too bad, you can always call her/his office and tell them that you're having a really bad time, can they get you in sooner.
> 
> In the meantime, I want you to read a book for me. You can get it at any library. It's called His Needs Her Needs. It talks about what a healthy marriage looks like. It will show you what you should have been able to expect from your husband and also what YOU should have been providing him - and also what you don't HAVE to provide him. For instance, you don't have to give up all your needs just to keep HIM happy. Things like that. I think reading it will educate you a LOT about what your marriage should have looked like. That should help you understand better.
> 
> But this
> is just flat out low self-worth on your part. If you loved yourself, you would never even QUESTION whether you were bad enough to divorce. We all know you aren't. But YOU don't believe it. That's what you need the therapy for, ok?



I have already read his needs her needs..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Then you know that what he offered was WRONG.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Then you know that what he offered was WRONG.


he does satisfy every need when he is loving. But the moment there is an argument, all 'gone'.. Then it is 'i dont love you' he is on the way with his uncle now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> And the fact that you have stood up to him means he and his family feel you are too controlling and not submissive enough. Is that correct?


that's correct. I only said come after exam and that is a huge issue for them..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> he does satisfy every need when he is loving. But the moment there is an argument, all 'gone'.. Then it is 'i dont love you' he is on the way with his uncle now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He used emotional weapons a lot, very unloving Darlin


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I'm sorry I was less involved in your thread while I was traveling. So sorry for your pain. Allow yourself to grieve. Be kind to yourself in a mothering way. His inability to stay committed to therapy is not your fault. Do you have need of growth, learning, maturity? Yes, we all do. There isnt one person on this thread that even with our knowledge maturity and wisdom that doesnt still screw up from time to time. The growth helps it happen less frequently but never elimintes it. You are a student of life, we all are, so my advice is accept that role being kind to yourself and patient with your emotional processes, including grieving now. Do yourself a favor and resolve your heart and mind to let him go as it should help shorten this season of grieving for you.


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## turnera

I will disagree with your assessment that he met all your needs. Ask your therapist.


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## finding-a-path

so... they came. his uncle told us to have a 2 months trial separation. 

his conditions to come back are

1) he should be able to add any woman and interact on fb, i will not have the password.i can't see.

2) he will not live at this house because his mother won't come here so we are to rent a house (this house is in my name so he says it's not his.he wont be here)

3) he will go abroad to work for as many years as he likes

4) when we got married we agreed to be childfree. now he want's a kid if he comes back.


that's where we are right now.


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## finding-a-path

I am having trouble with 1 and 2


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## turnera

Say WHAT?!

Surely you said NO?!

Please God tell me you said no.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Say WHAT?!
> 
> Surely you said NO?!
> 
> Please God tell me you said no.


waiting to see what else will happen in 2 months.


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> so... they came. his uncle told us to have a 2 months trial separation.
> 
> his conditions to come back are
> 
> 1) he should be able to add any woman and interact on fb, i will not have the password.i can't see.
> 
> 2) he will not live at this house because his mother won't come here so we are to rent a house (this house is in my name so he says it's not his.he wont be here)
> 
> 3) he will go abroad to work for as many years as he likes
> 
> 4) when we got married we agreed to be childfree. now he want's a kid if he comes back.
> 
> 
> that's where we are right now.


You are insane if you agree to this!!


----------



## finding-a-path

i do not think renting a house when we have our own is good. just because she said she cant come here to "be second" we are to move and rent? not a clever idea.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> so... they came. his uncle told us to have a 2 months trial separation.
> 
> his conditions to come back are
> 
> 1) he should be able to add any woman and interact on fb, i will not have the password.i can't see.
> 
> 2) he will not live at this house because his mother won't come here so we are to rent a house (this house is in my name so he says it's not his.he wont be here)
> 
> 3) he will go abroad to work for as many years as he likes
> 
> 4) when we got married we agreed to be childfree. now he want's a kid if he comes back.
> 
> 
> that's where we are right now.


He *should* be grown enough and rehearsed enough in boundaries to be able to manage any persons on his facebook page, honor his marriage by being open handed with it. If he can demonstrate that kind of maturity then sure, but not if he hasn't then accountability must remain a part of this picture. I highly doubt he has that maturity.

Any house move that creates a financial hit on you is not a move I would make for him. He hasn't earned that level of sacrifice from you. Why isn't the house in both name or his name? Where you the one with the financial means? If you were, get an attorney or financial advisor to guide you through wisdom in decisions regarding YOUR house. And I've got news for you. His mother isn't going to come around where ever you are that house or another one. That is total B.S. That reason alone would make me refuse a life with him. 

Going abroad for work.... ok... does he plan to bring you with him or does he plan go get you pregnant then "escape" to another country abandoning you to care for your child??? Wanting a child AND working abroad should ONLY be discussed in the light of the family moving "with" him. You are not his baby factory. You are a woman with a heart and soul who should be cared for, supported, as a human being, not a hotel, baby factory and marital status.

What I hear is passive aggressive moves towards you because he actually just wants out while appeasing his family/culture.

Thanks but no thanks. I would look square in his face and tell him... you want out buddy... there's the door, just don't stand here and play games with me.


----------



## turnera

Honestly, path, get a grip.

That was ONE LONG LIST of actions YOU have to take to swear you will never speak up or request anything of him, ever again.

Plain and simple.

It was extortion. It was the MALES (and his mom) telling you you'd better shut up and quit *****ing or else he divorces you. It was him saying "I WILL live like a single man and do whatever I want whenever I want it with whomever I want, and you will sit there in that home and WAIT ON ME like the servant/slave/hooker you are."

I can't believe you agreed to this.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Path... click on the first link in my signature line... that is a book to add to your arsenal.


----------



## Openminded

Is your attachment to your culture that strong that you are for a moment even considering this?


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> He *should* be grown enough and rehearsed enough in boundaries to be able to manage any persons on his facebook page, honor his marriage by being open handed with it. If he can demonstrate that kind of maturity then sure, but not if he hasn't then accountability must remain a part of this picture. I highly doubt he has that maturity.
> 
> Any house move that creates a financial hit on you is not a move I would make for him. He hasn't earned that level of sacrifice from you. Why isn't the house in both name or his name? Where you the one with the financial means? yes.so when i said please come after the exam,his mother said i requested that because the house is in my name.and now it seems husband has taken that to heartIf you were, get an attorney or financial advisor to guide you through wisdom in decisions regarding YOUR house. And I've got news for you. His mother isn't going to come around where ever you are that house or another one. That is total B.S. That reason alone would make me refuse a life with him. she will be coming,he is sure about it.says she ll do childcare and live with us
> 
> Going abroad for work.... ok... does he plan to bring you with him or does he plan go get you pregnant then "escape" to another country abandoning you to care for your child??? he will be going aloneWanting a child AND working abroad should ONLY be discussed in the light of the family moving "with" him. You are not his baby factory. You are a woman with a heart and soul who should be cared for, supported, as a human being, not a hotel, baby factory and marital status.
> 
> What I hear is passive aggressive moves towards you because he actually just wants out while appeasing his family/culture.i think so too.
> 
> Thanks but no thanks. I would look square in his face and tell him... you want out buddy... there's the door, just don't stand here and play games with me.


----------



## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> Is your attachment to your culture that strong that you are for a moment even considering this?


culture is a big factor. i have told my parents about his "rules" let's see where this goes.


----------



## finding-a-path

where to from here? do i say no and start divorce proceedings? do i try to negotiate? i am lost...


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## turnera

IIWY, I would just say "I agree, we need to separate. I'll let you know in 2 months how I feel about staying married to you."

I have a feeling, though, that what you REALLY said was "Oh, husband, please don't leave me, I'm begging you! I'll do anything you ask, just don't leave me!"

About right?


----------



## EleGirl

I agree that you should just tell him that you disagree with his 'terms' so divorce is in order.

The following is only if you want to give him the reasons why your disagree. 



finding-a-path said:


> so... they came. his uncle told us to have a 2 months trial separation.
> 
> his conditions to come back are


When they came to talk to you, did you just listen? Or did you voice your objections?

I think you would greatly benefit from writing answers to each of these. Why you are not ok with them. At some point, once you feel that you have your responses worded to accurately reflect your thoughts, then you need to send it as a letter to your husband and his uncle. You need to state your position very clearly. This list they gave you is pure nonsense. They are expecting you to shut your mouth and let your husband have affairs and walk all over you.
I’m going to start this writing using to get you started…. I’ll call your husband “H”.

======================== 
H, what you do not understand is that I have boundaries which I will not cross. You are free to do as you please. What you seem to not realize is that I too am free to do as I please. 


finding-a-path said:


> 1) he should be able to add any woman and interact on fb, i will not have the password.i can't see.


I choose to not live my life married to a man who wants to have online affairs with women. You have had inappropriate relationships with women online before. Before we married you PROMISSED me that you would not do this any longer. But apparently that promise is a lie. If you want to return to our marriage, I will not accept a marriage in which my husband is on line calling women “sweetie” and other names of endearment, online dating and online sexting etc., nor in real life cheating. It’s my choice not to have this kind of grief and pain in my life. So do not return if it’s your intent to carry on with other women in any fashion.
I choose to live in a marriage in which me and my husband have complete transparency and radical honesty. This includes no secrets, shared passwords, etc. If you cannot live with transparency and honesty in our marriage, then do not return.

The Policy of Radical Honesty



finding-a-path said:


> 2) he will not live at this house because his mother won't come here so we are to rent a house (this house is in my name so he says it's not his. he wont be here)


Renting another house because your mother wants to be ‘first’ is financial hardship for us. We have a house/home. Your mother is welcome to stay here after I finish my exams as I have to concentrate on my exams. It is completely reasonable for me to not want a distraction while I have to study for my exams. I would not be able to spend time with your mother if she came while I had to study.


finding-a-path said:


> 3) he will go abroad to work for as many years as he likes


I choose to be in a marriage in which my husband is part of my life and my children’s life on a daily basis. If I wanted to live as an unmarried woman I would not have married. So if you want to basically live like an unmarried man for years at a time abroad, then there is no reason to continue this marriage.


finding-a-path said:


> 4) when we got married we agreed to be childfree. now he want's a kid if he comes back.


Before we married, you told me that you did not want children. Now you are telling me that you do want children. We need to discuss this as a couple. Having your uncle tell be that it’s required that I have children is not acceptable. If you want children we can have an open, adult discussion about it. For one thing I am curious why, after years of you not wanting them you suddenly say you do. And why have you not talked to me about this before?

And to let you know, I do not want to raise children on my own. So if you want me to have children while you go work abroad for years, and you do not help me raise them, do not return because I’m not willing to do this. I need a husband who lives with me and our children and who participates in raising them.



finding-a-path said:


> that's where we are right now.


It’s a pretty sucky place to be. You way that you want to wait 2 months so see what comes up. I think that’s a really bad idea.


====================================
There is a two month window to tell your husband (and his uncle) what your boundaries are, your needs, your expectations, etc. That has to be talked about NOW. The worst thing that could happen is if you let these ridiculous demands stand, your husband moves back in, then you try to talk to him about all of this… then the accusations of controlling will start again.
Take advantage of this window of time.

The reason that I suggest you include his uncle in the communications is that you can be sure that your H has told him only his side of things. So he’s getting bad counsel based on his distorted side of the story. So include the uncle in the written communication so that you get to give your side of things.


----------



## turnera

Most likely, his uncle just doesn't give a damn about her side of things. She is, after all, just a woman.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> IIWY, I would just say "I agree, we need to separate. I'll let you know in 2 months how I feel about staying married to you."
> 
> I have a feeling, though, that what you REALLY said was "Oh, husband, please don't leave me, I'm begging you! I'll do anything you ask, just don't leave me!"
> 
> About right?


no.i didnt say anything. He said ok im going.i was just standing there.Didnt say dont leave etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

turnera said:


> Most likely, his uncle just doesn't give a damn about her side of things. She is, after all, just a woman.


You are probably right about that. If he did care he would not have come with demands. But, there is something very rewarding letting a man (or men) like that know that they are their are full of sh!t and women have a say in this world.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> no.i didnt say anything. He said ok im going.i was just standing there.Didnt say dont leave etc.


How bizar. Do you think that it was the uncle's idea to make visit and lay down the demands?


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> How bizar. Do you think that it was the uncle's idea to make visit and lay down the demands?


Thank you for the long reply before this one. I will reply it once i am home. No, it was not uncle's idea. It was my husband's idea. When leaving,he said he would return in 2 months.after he went to his mother's he sent me he will not come here and we must rent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> Thank you for the long reply before this one. I will reply it once i am home. No, it was not uncle's idea. It was my husband's idea. When leaving,he said he would return in 2 months.after he went to his mother's he sent me he will not come here and we must rent.


It sounds like your husband thinks he has the upper hand now. Like he's punishing you until you agree to just be a quiet wife who will accept anything he wants/demands.

I hope you find your strength to stand up to him. You would be better off divorcing him than to give into such demands.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> It sounds like your husband thinks he has the upper hand now. Like he's punishing you until you agree to just be a quiet wife who will accept anything he wants/demands.
> 
> I hope you find your strength to stand up to him. You would be better off divorcing him than to give into such demands.


and it seems his mother will get her way no matter what. Even if it means breaking down her son's marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

I feel lonely.. Like there's no one to talk with me,ask if i ate etc.. And i wish there was someone to hug and kiss me. it's sad.. Nobody should feel this much alone.i am holding on because of you on this forum,1 facebook friend and 1 friend at work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA

I thought you had your parents to talk to as well. What do they think of these demands?

What I took from his demands is basically this:

He doesn't want to be married but he wants you to pay half the rent of wherever you live and look after his mother for him.

He wants to go live overseas without you, come back when he feels like it and use you as a human incubator, then probably rip your child/children off you and give them to his mother to raise.

If you choose to continue a life with this person, you'll have a hell of a lot more to worry about than not having someone to ask you if you ate something.

Edited to add: Honestly, go outside your house, pick the first single man you find and he'll be better than this POS.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> I feel lonely.. Like there's no one to talk with me,ask if i ate etc.. And i wish there was someone to hug and kiss me. it's sad.. Nobody should feel this much alone.i am holding on because of you on this forum,1 facebook friend and 1 friend at work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Baby Girl, I remember that feeling like it was yesterday. I was with my ex for 17 years and felt my world crushing in on me as I considered leaving him considering his social status. There were very few I could talk to. I needed a lot of support from the ones I did talk to. It was rough. So I totally empathize. So sorry you are hurting. 

Your mother in law falsely accused your motive for your boundary. Your husband bought her logic over yours when he knows the truth and is now bringing in another adult male to exert additional pressure on you to conform you to his thoughts on how he desires to reduce you to a non entity in his life. Well, Darlin, that house IS in your name and as it stands right now IS leverage in your hands to keep your own voice. DO NOT let go of that house. Let this man walk... Build a beautiful sweet life for yourself in your own home. Get healthy and find someone who isnt oppressive. This guy and his family are oppressive. Set your heart free Baby Girl.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> I feel lonely.. Like there's no one to talk with me,ask if i ate etc..


path, you keep saying this. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but maybe it's a symptom of a dysfunctional relationship. In MY life, I've never met a couple where one asks the other if they've eaten. Is it because you have a tendency to go hours or days without eating? Or is it just something that people in your culture say? If it's because you go without eating, what's up with that? The only time I've seen someone do that is when the other person is depressed and won't eat. Is that the case here?

Is there a pattern in your relationship where he is having to 'take care of' you like that?


----------



## turnera

Blossom Leigh said:


> Baby Girl, I remember that feeling like it was yesterday. I was with my ex for 17 years and felt my world crushing in on me as I considered leaving him considering his social status. There were very few I could talk to. I needed a lot of support from the ones I did talk to. It was rough. So I totally empathize. So sorry you are hurting.
> 
> Your mother in law falsely accused your motive for your boundary. Your husband bought her logic over yours when he knows the truth and is now bringing in another adult male to exert additional pressure on you to conform you to his thoughts on how he desires to reduce you to a non entity in his life. Well, Darlin, that house IS in your name and as it stands right now IS leverage in your hands to keep your own voice. DO NOT let go of that house. Let this man walk... Build a beautiful sweet life for yourself in your own home. Get healthy and find someone who isnt oppressive. This guy and his family are oppressive. Set your heart free Baby Girl.


Great point. You have a lot more power than you give yourself credit for. While he's gone, go see a lawyer. You'll be surprised to learn just how much power you have.


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## Openminded

You said your husband used to take you each day to your parents. Why not lean on them?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, you keep saying this. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but maybe it's a symptom of a dysfunctional relationship. In MY life, I've never met a couple where one asks the other if they've eaten. Is it because you have a tendency to go hours or days without eating? Or is it just something that people in your culture say? If it's because you go without eating, what's up with that? The only time I've seen someone do that is when the other person is depressed and won't eat. Is that the case here?
> 
> Is there a pattern in your relationship where he is having to 'take care of' you like that?


It was one of our "habits" he would call me everyday when i am at work.he knows my lunch break time.so he would call and ask "are you going to eat now" before he himself starts eating. that is because some days i don't get to eat lunch till much later when im busy at work.so it's a reminder and a way to show that he cares.And here, people usually think if their partner ate before they eat... most women do not have dinner till the husband comes home. that is not a rule. they just wait to eat together/because they don't want to eat when the partner is hungry etc.


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> You said your husband used to take you each day to your parents. Why not lean on them?


I am at my parents home now. but i can not share the inner feelings of how alone i feel. they know i am sad but i have not told them how sad i am.and, i will probably not find a child-free man and will have to be single forever.they are worried about that.they have told me either we have to repair this marriage or i ll have to marry someone else


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> they have told me either we have to repair this marriage or i ll have to marry someone else


Or...you decide you don't WANT to be with a man. 

Seriously, though, are you saying your parents don't support you? That they tell you what's 'appropriate' and that they expect you to appear appropriate no matter what you feel? 

If so, then I agree, DON'T tell them what's going on. Start making friends at work or in extracurricular activities. Take up a hobby and make friends. Sign up for a class - take a leisure learning class at your local community college. Start walking or running. Stop focusing on what OTHER people want from you, and start figuring out what YOU want. And then go get it. And no, I'm not talking about keeping this man from leaving you. 

The only way you can truly be happy, path, is if you figure out what in life makes YOU happy apart from another human being, and making sure that you have THAT in your life - because you can't control another human being, as you've discovered, so putting your happiness in the hands of another person is a recipe for failure. Make YOURSELF happy, and then happiness with a man will come later. Gardening, knitting, roller derby, whatever it is, find out what makes YOU happy.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Or...you decide you don't WANT to be with a man.
> 
> Seriously, though, are you saying your parents don't support you? That they tell you what's 'appropriate' and that they expect you to appear appropriate no matter what you feel?
> 
> If so, then I agree, DON'T tell them what's going on. Start making friends at work or in extracurricular activities. Take up a hobby and make friends. Sign up for a class - take a leisure learning class at your local community college. Start walking or running. Stop focusing on what OTHER people want from you, and start figuring out what YOU want. And then go get it. And no, I'm not talking about keeping this man from leaving you.
> 
> The only way you can truly be happy, path, is if you figure out what in life makes YOU happy apart from another human being, and making sure that you have THAT in your life - because you can't control another human being, as you've discovered, so putting your happiness in the hands of another person is a recipe for failure. Make YOURSELF happy, and then happiness with a man will come later. Gardening, knitting, roller derby, whatever it is, find out what makes YOU happy.



They are worried that i will be alone when they die... which is a fact to be worried about around here.. here,women do not live alone. if they do, they get robbed in the night etc.. so they are worried how i ll live alone...

reading and watching movies makes me happy. but i have been feeling like i cant start a book.


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## turnera

Then you need to see a doctor for some temporary antidepressants.


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## SamuraiJack

Wow...just...wow.

I feel for you OP.
I havent read everything so Im not going to comment on anything other than your emotional state.
I know you are feeling fragile and unloved right now. 
Thats Okay.

Keep in mind that nearly half of all women go through this and survive. MANY of them thrive after a breakup like this.

You need to stop imagining yourself as a fragile person and realize your true worth. You obviously have a great capacity for love which is being used against you.

Talk with your folks. Express yourself!
Hopefully they are wise.

whatever you do, DO NOT let him make you sell your house.
Thats just him trying to get more leverage on you.

Keep posting!


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## turnera

If you sold the house, he would make you give HIM the money from it. And you know it.


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## SamuraiJack

turnera said:


> If you sold the house, he would make you give HIM the money from it. And you know it.


Not only that, but it would give you no place to go and he would try to hold that over you as well.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl, thank you for the idea of writing down everything.i am going to start it in the weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Then you need to see a doctor for some temporary antidepressants.


going to talk with therapist
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Not sure what culture you come from, but you do not have to be married. If you are financially independent, you can call your own shots. Why are your parents pushing you to stay married or immediately remarry?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Not sure what culture you come from, but you do not have to be married. If you are financially independent, you can call your own shots. Why are your parents pushing you to stay married or immediately remarry?


They are worried that i will be alone when they die... which is a fact to be worried about around here.. here,women do not live alone. if they do, they get robbed in the night etc.. so they are worried how i ll live alone...


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## finding-a-path

Ready to go to work, feeling sad,whatever i do i keep thinking about him.. can't believe his sudden change of heart yet.. one day, "i love you" next day "i don't love you" i talked to a volunteer counselor on the phone and she suggested he shall start the meds for bi-polar again....


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> They are worried that i will be alone when they die... which is a fact to be worried about around here.. here,women do not live alone. if they do, they get robbed in the night etc.. so they are worried how i ll live alone...


Get a big dog and a gun 

I do understand you have limits where you are. Shoot, if it were me I'd rent that house out and move to a country where it is common for women to live alone.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Get a big dog and a gun
> 
> I do understand you have limits where you are. Shoot, if it were me I'd rent that house out and move to a country where it is common for women to live alone.


I will never be able to do that.my job and family are here... Anyway,he insists on renting. I am going to wait for a month or so and meet and discuss things when he is calm. If all else fails, we are going for a divorce. Me and my family decided that..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Sorry, I just have an independent streak a mile wide.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Sorry, I just have an independent streak a mile wide.


It's ok.i would have gone away if i could too.. So, waiting would be ok right? To see what he will do? Or do i start the divorce now..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> It's ok.i would have gone away if i could too.. So, waiting would be ok right? To see what he will do? Or do i start the divorce now..?


What is the point of waiting? 

He gave you his 'Must have list" and you cannot live with it.

I think that filing for divorce how makes sense. Just get on with your life.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> It's ok.i would have gone away if i could too.. So, waiting would be ok right? To see what he will do? Or do i start the divorce now..?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


path, let me ask you: Is he going to be a different person in 2 months? In 2 months, will he still be the same man who's willing to tell his wife he'll screw as many women as he wants and she won't do a thing about it?

Don't you deserve more than that? You know nothing will change in 2 months, he'll still be the man who will be loving - as long as you stop complaining and start doing what he tells you.

So no, waiting would NOT be ok. Not for YOU.

And guess what? If you DO file for divorce, it is the one and ONLY way he will ever respect you and learn to stop treating you like property. Maybe, just maybe, filing for divorce can get him to start being decent.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, let me ask you: Is he going to be a different person in 2 months? In 2 months, will he still be the same man who's willing to tell his wife he'll screw as many women as he wants and she won't do a thing about it?
> 
> Don't you deserve more than that? You know nothing will change in 2 months, he'll still be the man who will be loving - as long as you stop complaining and start doing what he tells you.
> 
> So no, waiting would NOT be ok. Not for YOU.
> 
> And guess what? If you DO file for divorce, it is the one and ONLY way he will ever respect you and learn to stop treating you like property. Maybe, just maybe, filing for divorce can get him to start being decent.


he didnt tell me that he will be with other women.. Yes,i think he will be the same. Loving as long as i do not upset him by doing/saying what he dislikes.. That has to change,true love does not vanish just because of an argument.. He agreed that he will go to therapy if he returns in 2 months.. That's why i thought of waiting. Besides,if we file now,i am sure his people will tell him to agree and this would be all over. I want to try to save my marriage before going to the final step..then at least i will have peace of mind that i tried everything...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> he didnt tell me that he will be with other women..


He told you that he wants to be able to have female friends on line and not give you his password. 

He said that he wants to take jobs abroad for years at a time.

Both of those mean that he wants to be with other women. why do you think he wants to have female friends online that you cannot monitor? To flirt and have sex.

What do you think he will do for years while he's working abroad? Do you really think he will be celibate? Most men who do this have women they see in the countries they work in. He's not going to go aboard without you and go sexless or years. 



finding-a-path said:


> Yes,i think he will be the same. Loving as long as i do not upset him by doing/saying what he dislikes.. That has to change,true love does not vanish just because of an argument.. He agreed that he will go to therapy if he returns in 2 months.. That's why i thought of waiting. Besides,if we file now,i am sure his people will tell him to agree and this would be all over. I want to try to save my marriage before going to the final step..then at least i will have peace of mind that i tried everything...


If you want to try to save your marriage then tell him that you need to start going to counseling now. If you wait for 2 months you will need to move back in with him. Then he will have you where he wants you and there will be no reason for him to go to counseling. 

Also he's going to want to rent a place and have you sell your place. Then he will take your money and you will have lost your ability to be truly independent. 

Apparently you live in a country where women have few choices. You are more independent than most because you have an education and you own a home. Do not lose those things or you will be in a position where he can walk all over you.


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> he didnt tell me that he will be with other women..


Actually, he did.

And if you had any self worth, you would tell him "How about instead, YOU go to counseling for the next two months, and at the end, I'LL decide if I want to stay married to you if you've shown me enough respect?"


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> He told you that he wants to be able to have female friends on line and not give you his password.
> 
> He said that he wants to take jobs abroad for years at a time.
> 
> Both of those mean that he wants to be with other women. why do you think he wants to have female friends online that you cannot monitor? To flirt and have sex.
> 
> What do you think he will do for years while he's working abroad? Do you really think he will be celibate? Most men who do this have women they see in the countries they work in. He's not going to go aboard without you and go sexless or years.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to try to save your marriage then tell him that you need to start going to counseling now. If you wait for 2 months you will need to move back in with him. Then he will have you where he wants you and there will be no reason for him to go to counseling.
> 
> Also he's going to want to rent a place and have you sell your place. Then he will take your money and you will have lost your ability to be truly independent.
> 
> Apparently you live in a country where women have few choices. You are more independent than most because you have an education and you own a home. Do not lose those things or you will be in a position where he can walk all over you.


about the password, he says that it is a part of his private life and says he should be able to be friends with anyone he wants.his uncle agrees. I feel because he has done unwanted things before and because there is no need to hide the password if he is not doing anything bad,he shall give it to me. I am never going to sell the house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

what do you think about him saying i shall agree to a kid or else he will divorce me and have kids with someone else? That is a threat..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> about the password, he says that it is a part of his private life and says he should be able to be friends with anyone he wants.his uncle agrees. I feel because he has done unwanted things before and because there is no need to hide the password if he is not doing anything bad,he shall give it to me.


Does his uncle know that he has done in the past? You are right in not going along with your husband having secret relationships with women. 

Have you asked him how he would feel about it if you did exactly the same kinds of things he's been doing .. but you did it with other men? Will he agree to you doing that?



finding-a-path said:


> I am never going to sell the house.


Good for you. Stand by that .


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> what do you think about him saying i shall agree to a kid or else he will divorce me and have kids with someone else? That is a threat..



Sure it's a threat in that if you will not produce children for him, he does not want to be with you. This is especially true since he said in the past that he did not want children.I wonder how much his mother and family have put pressure on him for this.

Even if you go back to him now, what will he do if it turns out that you cannot have children or one reason or another? Will he divorce you? 

Also, as I mentioned before, he's said that he wants you to have children for him. But he has no plan to help you raise those children. Instead he plans to go live abroad and work for years.. while he lives the life of a single man with other women. Do you understand that this is what he's expecting you to deal with?

You said that he's bipolar. Most bipolar people make horrible spouses and parents. Sure there are some who can manage their condition and who do pretty well. But most cannot. 

When I read his demands there are contractions like his wanting you to have children but he wants to be work/live abroad for years at a time. He's not all there mentally. He has as disorder that is a real problem. Do you really want children with a man who has this disorder? There is a high probability that your children will be born with it. Why even go there?


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## AliceA

At this point he is making this a business arrangement. He has laid out his ground rules for continuing the marriage. You need to respond in a similar fashion with yes/no to each point or offer some sort of compromise.

Look at it like a man you have never met before is offering you a contract of marriage with those conditions he has listed. Decide if this is what a marriage is for you. Both people in the marriage have the right to be happy with the arrangement. You must make clear what you expect out of a marriage and what is not acceptable to you.

What is your relationship vision? Examples:

You are each other's best friends
You trust each other
You share important decisions
You are financially secure
You live together
You settle your differences peacefully

etc


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> what do you think about him saying i shall agree to a kid or else he will divorce me and have kids with someone else? That is a threat..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think there already is someone else...

Who says this to their beloved when there's not?


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Does his uncle know that he has done in the past? You are right in not going along with your husband having secret relationships with women.
> 
> Have you asked him how he would feel about it if you did exactly the same kinds of things he's been doing .. but you did it with other men? Will he agree to you doing that?
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you. Stand by that .


i sent the uncle a message saying i wanted him to share password because he did inappropriate stuff online before. but i don't know if he read it. i think i shall send him another detailed message? 


at the moment,because he is angry,if i asked he would say it's ok if i was chatting with other men


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> I think there already is someone else...
> 
> Who says this to their beloved when there's not?


I am not his "beloved" anymore.. every time we fight, he says he does not love me, so when he does not love me he does not have a problem saying stuff like this.. i wish we had the chance to continue counseling till he learned to say " i am angry" instead of i don't love you


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## finding-a-path

so ...one of his conditions is that i shall come to live in a rented house. if i say no, what do you think will happen? he can't divorce me for that right?


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## Blossom Leigh

If you arent his beloved, say no period, to everything and let the chips fall where they may.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> about the password, he says that it is a part of his private life and says he should be able to be friends with anyone he wants.his uncle agrees.


Of course he does. 

Does he expect YOU to have the same amount of freedom? Will he allow YOU to keep YOUR passwords from HIM? Ask him.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> I am not his "beloved" anymore.. every time we fight, he says he does not love me, so when he does not love me he does not have a problem saying stuff like this..


Then why on earth would you want to stay married?


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## Blossom Leigh

He is triangulating his uncle to weight his leverage against you and your wishes. Wish I were there to join you in facing the husband and uncle. I would be some serious weight in your corner. They wouldn't know what hit them. You need to lawyer up for sure. Get yourself protected.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> so ...one of his conditions is that i shall come to live in a rented house. if i say no, what do you think will happen? he can't divorce me for that right?


path, you are not being reasonable.

You have a house, that you own. Your H says that - for him to be willing to 'keep' you, you must give up your own identity. 

You must leave YOUR house that you worked and saved for, and go to a place HE chooses. 

You must agree to let him be with anyone he chooses. 

You must agree to stop talking back to him and questioning what he does and stop asking for 'more' than he feels like giving you.

You must agree to not expect him to have sex with only you.

You must agree to have children (guess who gets to TAKE CARE of them? Sure won't be HIM) - so you will be stuck under his thumb for AT LEAST the next 19 years. 

You must agree to let his mom live with you (guess who THEN becomes the 'woman of the house' - sure won't be YOU).

path, he is telling you that to keep him, you must submit to him and become what (I'm guessing) your culture feels a woman should be - dependent, submissive, having no rights, having no voice, and unable to get what YOU want.

You tried to get him to show that he cares; you got him to go to counseling ONCE. And what did he then do? He GOT FED UP with pretending to be a caring loving man who puts his wife equal to him. 

In other words, he stopped pretending that you matter as much as he does.

Is that all you're worth?


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## Openminded

How did you end up owning a house only in your name?

And, yes, he could end up divorcing you over that because he apparently doesn't like living in your house. Maybe he feels he's not in charge. Who knows. 

He may actually think he loves you when things are going completely his way every minute but that isn't real love and you need to accept that.


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> How did you end up owning a house only in your name?
> 
> And, yes, he could end up divorcing you over that because he apparently doesn't like living in your house. Maybe he feels he's not in charge. Who knows.
> 
> He may actually think he loves you when things are going completely his way every minute but that isn't real love and you need to accept that.


it was build for me before i got married. 

yes.he feels he is not in charge because i requested his mother to come after the exam.i did not requested to come after because it is "my house" i requested because of the exam. but she and husband both did not understand it...




no communication from him since Friday morning... and it has been a week since he left..


----------



## Openminded

Your parents had it built? A wedding gift? I would imagine in a male-focused society your husband didn't like having the house in your name. And neither he nor his mother feel you should say "no" to them. 

He's not going to change.


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## Blossom Leigh

You need a man worthy of the family who blessed you with a home to lay his head. How dare he treat you any less.


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## Blossom Leigh

I'm wanting to see you blossom into the woman you are supposed to be.


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> Your parents had it built? A wedding gift? I would imagine in a male-focused society your husband didn't like having the house in your name. And neither he nor his mother feel you should say "no" to them.
> 
> He's not going to change.


yes.a wedding gift..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

I have trouble understanding how a man can do a complete turn around in just one day. Aug 13th morning,he said he loved me,he wont say 'i dont love u' again etc.gave me card and flowers. Then on the eve of same day,he said i ll leave you.he used to text me around 5times per day and to call me 4-5 times. Now, no texts no calls.how is it possible for a human to forget everything so quick? I am thinking bipolar has something to do with that...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> i sent the uncle a message saying i wanted him to share password because he did inappropriate stuff online before. but i don't know if he read it. i think i shall send him another detailed message?
> 
> 
> at the moment,because he is angry,if i asked he would say it's ok if i was chatting with other men


where you chatting with other men?


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> so ...one of his conditions is that i shall come to live in a rented house. if i say no, what do you think will happen? he can't divorce me for that right?


What are the divorce laws where you live? What grounds can a person use to file?


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> I have trouble understanding how a man can do a complete turn around in just one day. Aug 13th morning,he said he loved me,he wont say 'i dont love u' again etc.gave me card and flowers. Then on the eve of same day,he said i ll leave you.he used to text me around 5times per day and to call me 4-5 times. Now, no texts no calls.how is it possible for a human to forget everything so quick? I am thinking bipolar has something to do with that...


It could be the bipolar.

Or it could be that he treated you all lovey one day because he was not yet ready to spring his leaving on you. Then the next day he was just ready to do it.


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## Openminded

finding-a-path said:


> I have trouble understanding how a man can do a complete turn around in just one day. Aug 13th morning,he said he loved me,he wont say 'i dont love u' again etc.gave me card and flowers. Then on the eve of same day,he said i ll leave you.he used to text me around 5times per day and to call me 4-5 times. Now, no texts no calls.how is it possible for a human to forget everything so quick? I am thinking bipolar has something to do with that...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just because he said it doesn't mean he meant it. Some people aren't capable of real love. 

Is it common for a married woman to have a house only in her name?


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> where you chatting with other men?


no.i did not chat with other men. I was asked to ask him how would he feel if i was chatting with others. Thats why i said at the moment,he would say he does not care whoever i chat with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> What are the divorce laws where you live? What grounds can a person use to file?


as far as i know, there are 3 reasons. Sexual inability, leaving, having an affair
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> as far as i know, there are 3 reasons. Sexual inability, leaving, having an affair


You can probably find the reasons allowed for divorce on the web.

Either of you could file for leaving (abandonment). He left first so right now you can file based on that.

Your house was/is the legal marital residence. I'm not sure if he can just rent a place, declare it the marital residence and insist that you move there. You might need to talk to a lawyer.

I keep going back to it.. you need to file and do it now. He's abandoned you. He's making unreasonable demands. I'm not sure how well you will fair in court if he files. You seem to be living is a culture where men have the upper hand.


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> Just because he said it doesn't mean he meant it. Some people aren't capable of real love.
> 
> Is it common for a married woman to have a house only in her name?


because he was alone at his aunt's house from age 6, he does have some problems.when he cant get love he thinks 'ok i dont want love' and becomes 'closed'... So maybe he did not learn much about love at all.. 
the normal thing is the man has a house before getting married.all my friends live in houses owned by their husbands.but my husband did not have a house.they were renting.so my parents built a house for us. There are plenty of other women who own houses and plenty of men live in the houses owned by their wives. In fact, even when couples buy houses they tend to take it on the name of the wife..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> You can probably find the reasons allowed for divorce on the web.
> 
> Either of you could file for leaving (abandonment). He left first so right now you can file based on that.
> 
> Your house was/is the legal marital residence. I'm not sure if he can just rent a place, declare it the marital residence and insist that you move there. You might need to talk to a lawyer.
> 
> I keep going back to it.. you need to file and do it now. He's abandoned you. He's making unreasonable demands. I'm not sure how well you will fair in court if he files. You seem to be living is a culture where men have the upper hand.


my mind says file now.heart says wait,he will say he loves me again just like he has before. But this is the 1st time he left so im not sure if he will.... A divorce is a huge deal around here. No 1 in my family has divorced. His parents and brother are divorced.. And i will not be able to forget the memories and dreams we had together, i still love him.and if it is the bipolar,i dont want to give up because of that too. (all his life,he had people giving up on him) and he was very good to me except when we had fights which happened once in 6 months or so. He gave me enough hugs,kisses,took care of me, was faithful, sex was great, gifts were great, he would take me anywhere i want even if the event does not interest him etc.so for these reasons,heart says 'try..' he is not seeing it now. But what will happen to him when his mother dies?! (not saying it will happen in 1year 2year etc but she will,some day.say in 20years. Then what?! He is leaving wife to take care of her,but she wont be here forever)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

The house was a wedding gift, but it only belongs to you?

It sounds like the house is your inheritance. In that case it's your alone most likely.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> my mind says file now.heart says wait,he will say he loves me again just like he has before. But this is the 1st time he left so im not sure if he will.... A divorce is a huge deal around here. No 1 in my family has divorced. His parents and brother are divorced.. And i will not be able to forget the memories and dreams we had together, i still love him.and if it is the bipolar,i dont want to give up because of that too. (all his life,he had people giving up on him) and he was very good to me except when we had fights which happened once in 6 months or so. He gave me enough hugs,kisses,took care of me, was faithful, sex was great, gifts were great, he would take me anywhere i want even if the event does not interest him etc.so for these reasons,heart says 'try..' he is not seeing it now. But what will happen to him when his mother dies?! (not saying it will happen in 1year 2year etc but she will,some day.say in 20years. Then what?! He is leaving wife to take care of her,but she wont be here forever)


You are treating his bipolar as an excuse for him mistreating you. It's not. Even people with mental illnesses have a responsibility to treat others well. If not then they have no business being married.

and when you have children, your children will most likely be bi-polar. Do you really want to curse your own children with a serious mental illness?


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> The house was a wedding gift, but it only belongs to you?
> 
> It sounds like the house is your inheritance. In that case it's your alone most likely.


to be inheritance, it should be something my parents had, which they decided to write in my name right..? This land was purchased and house was built after my wedding date was decided. Land was purchased by my parents, house was built by the housing loan i got. My workplaces gives low interest loans.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> You are treating his bipolar as an excuse for him mistreating you. It's not. Even people with mental illnesses have a responsibility to treat others well. If not then they have no business being married.
> 
> and when you have children, your children will most likely be bi-polar. Do you really want to curse your own children with a serious mental illness?


no.. In that event i will have to go to a doc with him and let the doc explain that to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> because he was alone at his aunt's house from age 6, he does have some problems.when he cant get love he thinks 'ok i dont want love' and becomes 'closed'... So maybe he did not learn much about love at all..
> the normal thing is the man has a house before getting married.all my friends live in houses owned by their husbands.but my husband did not have a house.they were renting.so my parents built a house for us. There are plenty of other women who own houses and plenty of men live in the houses owned by their wives. In fact, even when couples buy houses they tend to take it on the name of the wife..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why are they taking it in the wife's name?

If thats the trend why do all your friends have it in the husbands name?

Why does your mind say file now?


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## finding-a-path

my friends think that they are waiting for me to call his mother,say sorry and invite her here.. Which i cant do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> to be inheritance, it should be something my parents had, which they decided to write in my name right..? This land was purchased and house was built after my wedding date was decided. Land was purchased by my parents, house was built by the housing loan i got. My workplaces gives low interest loans.


Your parents used some thing that they had to buy the land. So the land was a gift to you from them... an inheritance. then you are paying for the house that was built. Is yes it was part inheritance/gift from your parents.


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## Blossom Leigh

How old is your husband?


If your father had been upset with your mother, would he have sought out an uncle to present demands to her?


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> no.. In that event i will have to go to a doc with him and let the doc explain that to him.


I don't understand what you mean here. Let the docs explain what to him?


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> my friends think that they are waiting for me to call his mother,say sorry and invite her here.. Which i cant do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its possible....

Stand your ground.

I think you have a jealous MIL


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Why are they taking it in the wife's name?
> 
> If thats the trend why do all your friends have it in the husbands name?
> 
> Why does your mind say file now?


because there is a strong concept of man being the provider. So he should provide a house for her.and if he dies,his relatives cant throw her out etc. 
Sorry.i meant my 3 close friends.they married men who already had houses before marriage.so those are in the names of those men. If they got houses after marriage,they would have purchased in both/wife's name. 
I dont know.. Maybe because i want to end this torture.. Close this chapter for good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> How old is your husband?
> 
> 
> If your father had been upset with your mother, would he have sought out an uncle to present demands to her?


he is 35. no. My father would not do that. They would argue,scream, not talk for 3 days and then be ok again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> I don't understand what you mean here. Let the docs explain what to him?


let the doc explain that our kids would be bipolar, does he really want to have kids knowing that etc. He did not want kids up to aug 13th.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> he is 35. no. My father would not do that. They would argue,scream, not talk for 3 days and then be ok again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your father fights his own battles.

Did your father have a home when he married your Mom?

Why did your husband not have a home?

Yes, it is normal for the wife to be added to a deed if a house is bought together for inheritance purposes even here in the states.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> let the doc explain that our kids would be bipolar, does he really want to have kids knowing that etc. He did not want kids up to aug 13th.


BP is not always inherited. it can be caused by environmental issues as well. Bot form some things you have said it sounds like other family members of his are also bipolar (you can correct me if i'm wrong). If they are, then it sounds genetic.

Doesn't he understand that thing like bipolar can be passed down to children?

But my point is was not about you getting your husband to understand .. it's about getting you to understand that you would be foolish to have children with your husband due to his issues.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Your father fights his own battles.
> 
> Did your father have a home when he married your Mom?
> 
> Why did your husband not have a home?
> 
> Yes, it is normal for the wife to be added to a deed if a house is bought together for inheritance purposes even here in the states.


here,people live with parents till they marry and sometimes after getting married too. My dad lived with his parents, married my mom,they lived in his parents house. His mom fought with my mom,they left that house and built their own. Which is in my mother's name.. My husband did not have his own home and he and his mom were renting. So there was no place for him to take me after marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> BP is not always inherited. it can be caused by environmental issues as well. Bot form some things you have said it sounds like other family members of his are also bipolar (you can correct me if i'm wrong). If they are, then it sounds genetic.
> 
> Doesn't he understand that thing like bipolar can be passed down to children?
> 
> But my point is was not about you getting your husband to understand .. it's about getting you to understand that you would be foolish to have children with your husband due to his issues.


i think his mom might be BP. any normal person would have said 'ok i will come after the exam' and left it at that. Cutting ties for this issue seems too much for a normal person to do. And i think his aunt is too. She suggested we rent where she wants before we married. I said no, a house is here so why rent? Then she got angry with me. Now, aunt and mom both trying to get me to do what they wanted from the start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Your family must have done well since then to have the ability to gift you a home come wedding time.

What is your Dad's perception of your husband?


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> i think his mom might be BP. any normal person would have said 'ok i will come after the exam' and left it at that. Cutting ties for this issue seems too much for a normal person to do. And i think his aunt is too. She suggested we rent where she wants before we married. I said no, a house is here so why rent? Then she got angry with me. Now, aunt and mom both trying to get me to do what they wanted from the start.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why... What is their agenda?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Your family must have done well since then to have the ability to gift you a home come wedding time.
> 
> What is your Dad's perception of your husband?


always treated like his own son.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Why... What is their agenda?


his aunt is somewhat crazy.when he was my boyfriend,she used to ask me where we went etc. Later i got to know she expects me to tell her and take permission before going anywhere with him. She wanted us to rent near her house and his mom's rented place so that they can visit often. She wanted to control money,where we go,what we do etc. So i said no we wont rent,we have a house. They always wanted me to cook and serve them. But i am a working woman.not going to do that. They want to make me do it now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

when i requested to come after exam and she called me and screamed,she said husband brother's new girlfriend cooks,serves,gives her drinking water and a finger bowl without letting her walk to the sink to wash hands,so what have i done for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> when i requested to come after exam and she called me and screamed,she said husband brother's new girlfriend cooks,serves,gives her drinking water and a finger bowl without letting her walk to the sink to wash hands,so what have i done for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is your Dads perception of these women?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> What is your Dads perception of these women?


he and my mother both think they are trying to control me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

You have more problems than just your husband -- his mother and aunt will never stop trying to control you because they feel you aren't submissive enough. And he's deferential to them and supports their way of thinking. He is not going to stop listening to his family and support what you want. Not from what little I understand of traditional Asian culture (I'm assuming that's where you are). 

Is that what you want your life to be? If so, then you need to tell them. If not, then you need to get out.


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## turnera

EleGirl said:


> It could be the bipolar.
> 
> Or it could be that he treated you all lovey one day because he was not yet ready to spring his leaving on you. Then the next day he was just ready to do it.


It could be that as long as you were staying submissive, he had no problem being lovey to you and pretending to give you what you want (i.e. pretending to love you), but being dragged to therapy and told he had to change was too much for him, and the longer he thought about it, the madder he got and the more he felt it was just too much work and too humiliating for a man (of his culture); plus he was being egged on by his family. I can just imagine how much they were humiliating him - what, you allow a WOMAN to tell you what to do? She's trash. You deserve better. You don't have to kiss her ass. Leave her! We'll find you a suitable woman.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> It could be that as long as you were staying submissive, he had no problem being lovey to you and pretending to give you what you want (i.e. pretending to love you), but being dragged to therapy and told he had to change was too much for him, and the longer he thought about it, the madder he got and the more he felt it was just too much work and too humiliating for a man (of his culture); plus he was being egged on by his family. I can just imagine how much they were humiliating him - what, you allow a WOMAN to tell you what to do? She's trash. You deserve better. You don't have to kiss her ass. Leave her! We'll find you a suitable woman.


i was not submissive. i had firm boundaries in place.like, share passwords, be open and honest etc... he was ok with them and loved me... i think when i requested not to watch the video he thought "she controlled me by saying bring in my mother later and she controlled me by saying don't watch the video.so i ll leave" 

he has told my mother that he lost love for me because "what i did to his mother" i didn't do anything... i just requested him to tell her to come later..


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> my friends think that they are waiting for me to call his mother,say sorry and invite her here.. Which i cant do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


More than that, he and his family are extorting you - telling you if you don't kiss his ass and promise to never ever speak up again, ask his mom to move in with you, and apologize to his whole family, he will leave you.

path, you don't have to divorce yet. What's going on right now is what we call a 'pissing contest.' Or 'playing chicken.' Basically, it's a case of who's going to blink first, who will be the first the say "I'm sorry" and beg the other one to come back. His uncle told him to put you back in your place, to move out to show you you don't get to make the rules. 

So now, more than ever, you can't blink. Show him that you deserve respect, you deserve a husband who WILL go to therapy if he can't learn to stop threatening you, and that you will live without him if he can't do that one single thing for you. Because of his past, he needs therapy more than most. If you do talk, tell him you don't want him to be in pain, you know that therapy can help him deal with his childhood and find new healthy ways to handle situations, so you can BOTH be happy. Tell him you want that for him, but if he's unwilling, well, then you're unwilling to stay with him because you deserve to be happy, too. Don't threaten him, just show him why it's necessary.


----------



## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> You have more problems than just your husband -- his mother and aunt will never stop trying to control you because they feel you aren't submissive enough. And he's deferential to them and supports their way of thinking. He is not going to stop listening to his family and support what you want. Not from what little I understand of traditional Asian culture (I'm assuming that's where you are).
> 
> Is that what you want your life to be? If so, then you need to tell them. If not, then you need to get out.


yes.. we are Asian and i am afraid you might be correct...

he supported me before. now suddenly he wants to do what they want.he was never like that.


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## turnera

You never dragged him to therapy before. Even over here, there's still a stigma about men and therapy. Before that, he could still pretend to his family that he was being the good dictatorial man they expected him to be.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> More than that, he and his family are extorting you - telling you if you don't kiss his ass and promise to never ever speak up again, ask his mom to move in with you, and apologize to his whole family, he will leave you.
> 
> path, you don't have to divorce yet. What's going on right now is what we call a 'pissing contest.' Or 'playing chicken.' Basically, it's a case of who's going to blink first, who will be the first the say "I'm sorry" and beg the other one to come back. His uncle told him to put you back in your place, to move out to show you you don't get to make the rules. his uncle was fair.. i think he didn't mean the moving out to sound like that. he said you two shall be in separate places for 2 months so that you two miss each other and learn to value each other.
> 
> So now, more than ever, you can't blink. Show him that you deserve respect, you deserve a husband who WILL go to therapy if he can't learn to stop threatening you, and that you will live without him if he can't do that one single thing for you. Because of his past, he needs therapy more than most. If you do talk, tell him you don't want him to be in pain, you know that therapy can help him deal with his childhood and find new healthy ways to handle situations, so you can BOTH be happy. Tell him you want that for him, but if he's unwilling, well, then you're unwilling to stay with him because you deserve to be happy, too. Don't threaten him, just show him why it's necessary.


he said that if he comes back after the 2 months we will continue therapy...


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You never dragged him to therapy before. Even over here, there's still a stigma about men and therapy. Before that, he could still pretend to his family that he was being the good dictatorial man they expected him to be.


as far as i know, they did not know that we went to therapy..i think his mother told him "good decision" when he told her he is moving out, because she was angry with me...


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> he said that if he comes back after the 2 months we will continue therapy...


And you SHOULD have said "If you don't go to therapy with me DURING the two months, don't bother coming back."


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> as far as i know, they did not know that we went to therapy..i think his mother told him "good decision" when he told her he is moving out, because she was angry with me...


No, I think HE is the one struggling with knowing that he went to therapy.


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## turnera

And path, you're doing it again. Instead of looking at the real problem, you have devolved into defending him against every one of our posts. NO, he wouldn't do this. No, they didn't do that. You're trying to argue away the details instead of seeing what's really going on.

Just accept that he doesn't like the way things were going, so he took his toys and went home.


----------



## finding-a-path

i think taking little issues and making them huge might be a part of bipolar.. i don't know. he used to say "these people should be killed" if someone put on the radio on high volume.(when he was renting with his mom) so such extreme talk/reactions are one factor which made me realize he has a problem. now too, he is talking about divorce just because of these little things. maybe it is time for him to start meds...


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> And path, you're doing it again. Instead of looking at the real problem, you have devolved into defending him against every one of our posts. NO, he wouldn't do this. No, they didn't do that. You're trying to argue away the details instead of seeing what's really going on.
> 
> Just accept that he doesn't like the way things were going, so he took his toys and went home.


sorry. you are correct. he didn't like the way i was doing things and went home. not home actually. his mother's rented place..


----------



## finding-a-path

strange thing is he did not have a close bond with his mother. when i told him to get a gift for her on birthdays/new year etc he refused. when she calls he sometimes does not answer and does not call back till i remind him. now suddenly he is the dutiful son.


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## finding-a-path

and i was the one who reminded him her birthday, to deposit money in her account etc...


----------



## finding-a-path

do i send a message to him or do i wait till he contacts me..?


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## Openminded

If what you want to do is wait two months and give him another chance to see if things work then that's what you will end up doing. But the odds are excellent that things won't work. Why? Because of the influence his family has with him. Do you want your MIL living with you for the rest of her life? To her (and maybe to him), obviously, your status is lower than her status. He'll never support you over her.


----------



## Openminded

finding-a-path said:


> do i send a message to him or do i wait till he contacts me..?


Why? What would you say? You're right and I will do as you wish?


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## turnera

Openminded said:


> Why? What would you say? You're right and I will do as you wish?


I think she was responding to me saying that she should have said he should be going to therapy DURING the two months.


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> If what you want to do is wait two months and give him another chance to see if things work then that's what you will end up doing. But the odds are excellent that things won't work. Why? Because of the influence his family has with him. Do you want your MIL living with you for the rest of her life? To her (and maybe to him), obviously, your status is lower than her status. He'll never support you over her.


i don't want her to live with us. but i know he is responsible for her and she is his mother. so i have no objection of her staying with us as long as she minds her own business... when she asked to visit too i requested to come later...


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I think she was responding to me saying that she should have said he should be going to therapy DURING the two months.


yes... so do i contact or wait? i have a hunch that if i say that now, he will say no i am not coming let's divorce. in other words, we are not going to make any progress if i say it now.... waiting till he contacts me would be better...?


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## turnera

Going completely dark would be better.


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## finding-a-path

thanks. i wish he used his brain.. he ll be with his mother now. but what will happen when she ll be gone? he will have to move from place to place without having anyone with him... he told me his mother comes and makes breakfast lunch and dinner for him. strange thing is when he was single,she did not do that.


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## turnera

It's just a power struggle all around. Ignore it all.


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## Openminded

finding-a-path said:


> i don't want her to live with us. but i know he is responsible for her and she is his mother. so i have no objection of her staying with us as long as she minds her own business... when she asked to visit too i requested to come later...


As I recall, the mother has a very important place forever in your culture. Can you have her live with you forever? Do you really think she will mind her own business? I don't. She will obviously see that as a justified win for her. If you can deal with that and be a submissive wife and have children and move out of the house you own then he may continue to be married to you. Otherwise, I doubt it.


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## finding-a-path

I am still wondering how he can just leave and be ok with it. Like i meant nothing to him. I have loved a heartless person for 8 years  he does not even remember me.. I have done so much for him. I was faithful, i was caring, i listened to his problems, supported his career. Gave him gifts, satisfied him.. I was a devoted wife.now he can erase everything in a day? Very very strange..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You are a woman and he is a man. He can love you and still assume he's allowed to RUN THE MARRIAGE. You overstepped the bounds of what he expected you to be; so he chooses to do without you if you don't capitulate and play your role. 

IMO, this isn't about whether he likes you or not. It's about his image with his family, which in your culture, as far as I understand, he's not willing to risk, even for you.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You are a woman and he is a man. He can love you and still assume he's allowed to RUN THE MARRIAGE. You overstepped the bounds of what he expected you to be; so he chooses to do without you if you don't capitulate and play your role.
> 
> IMO, this isn't about whether he likes you or not. It's about his image with his family, which in your culture, as far as I understand, he's not willing to risk, even for you.


do you think he has lost his love completely? As you know,he has told me 'i dont love u' before.. But on those times he didnt leave,he called and texted..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> do you think he has lost his love completely? As you know,he has told me 'i dont love u' before.. But on those times he didnt leave,he called and texted..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why the hell would you not believe someone who flat out tells you that they dont love you? Seems pretty darn clear.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> strange thing is he did not have a close bond with his mother. when i told him to get a gift for her on birthdays/new year etc he refused. when she calls he sometimes does not answer and does not call back till i remind him. now suddenly he is the dutiful son.


This is because his mother is backing him up, telling him that he's right, you are wrong. They are now a team against you.


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## finding-a-path

3Xnocharm said:


> Why the hell would you not believe someone who flat out tells you that they dont love you? Seems pretty darn clear.


sorry.i just have trouble believing that he can wipe out 8 years and just switch off love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> This is because his mother is backing him up, telling him that he's right, you are wrong. They are now a team against you.


i see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> sorry.i just have trouble believing that he can wipe out 8 years and just switch off love.


His love did not switch off all at once. It happened over time.

Every time he did something disrespectful like chatting with women online, hiding things from you, spoke badly to you.

Every time he told you that he did not love you, he meant it. Then he'd get some feelings back for you. Then later he would not feel the love again. Over time it got to the point where he feels no love for you more than he feels love.

Things seem to have gotten worse when you wanted his mother to wait to visit. He was angry with you. And his mother found her way into his head by telling him that he's right, he's been wonderful to you and you have been terrible to poor him.

He's been falling out of love with your over a long time.


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## finding-a-path

i dont know how i am holding up. I just do the days work like a robot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> His love did not switch off all at once. It happened over time.
> 
> Every time he did something disrespectful like chatting with women online, hiding things from you, spoke badly to you.
> 
> Every time he told you that he did not love you, he meant it. Then he'd get some feelings back for you. Then later he would not feel the love again. Over time it got to the point where he feels no love for you more than he feels love.
> 
> Things seem to have gotten worse when you wanted his mother to wait to visit. He was angry with you. And his mother found her way into his head by telling him that he's right, he's been wonderful to you and you have been terrible to poor him.
> 
> He's been falling out of love with your over a long time.


he did not chat online after marriage.i caught him doing that 4-5 times before and gave chances to him.then HE promised he wouldnt. And now after the video argument he said i ll add who i want and do what i want,you cant control me.. 
Why cant he understand that i just requested her to wait and it is not a big crime..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Therapy?


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> he did not chat online after marriage.


That you know of.


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## finding-a-path

truth is i am devastated.i feel utterly helpless. And in pain because he broke my trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Then you should be staying with your family or visiting friends or calling your therapist.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Therapy?


have to wait 3 more days. Its on thursday.although i feel like running there NOW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Then you should be staying with your family or visiting friends or calling your therapist.


i am at work right now.. But cant focus. I cant wrap my head around the fact that he left and is fine with divorce, No sadness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> he did not chat online after marriage.i caught him doing that 4-5 times before and gave chances to him.then HE promised he wouldnt. And now after the video argument he said i ll add who i want and do what i want,you cant control me..


Can you please re-tell about the video argument? I do not remember is and your thread is too long to go through and search for it.




finding-a-path said:


> Why cant he understand that i just requested her to wait and it is not a big crime..?


Because his mother made it a big deal. She probably cried, and yelled and carried on. He's not strong enough to stand up to her.

Because in your culture his mother and family are more important to him than you are. It's embarrassing for him to have a wife who actually has a brain and is not so submissive that she's the maid and hand servant for his mother.

.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Can you please re-tell about the video argument? I do not remember is and your thread is too long to go through and search for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Because his mother made it a big deal. She probably cried, and yelled and carried on. He's not strong enough to stand up to her.
> 
> 
> 
> .


yes. On aug 12th when i went home from work,i saw that 6 tabs were open on his PC.(i use his computer when he is not using it because his internet connection is faster) so 5 tabs had music videos of women singing etc one tab had a slideshow of female singers photos. He has not watched these before and i was angry about the tab with photos.why would he want to look at their photos?so i asked him why he couldnt listen to the audio if it is the song he wanted.he said ok. On 13th, i came to work,i asked him are you working or watching those(yes.i was wrong) he said im working.he works from home. Then he texted me saying i want to watch,you cant make me select.i called him, we argued.me saying why he said something in the eve and telling something else now etc he said im watching what will u do? I said i dont have time to discuss now we will do later and finished the call. Then i called him later.he told me i tried to control so he will leave,he has told everyone etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

yes,she cried and screamed at me.and maybe did the same to him. But i thought he will be kind enough to think about me too.. When the applications for the exam were called,i told him 'i need your support'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> yes. On aug 12th when i went home from work,i saw that 6 tabs were open on his PC.(i use his computer when he is not using it because his internet connection is faster) so 5 tabs had music videos of women singing etc one tab had a slideshow of female singers photos. He has not watched these before and i was angry about the tab with photos.why would he want to look at their photos?so i asked him why he couldnt listen to the audio if it is the song he wanted.he said ok. On 13th, i came to work,i asked him are you working or watching those(yes.i was wrong) he said im working.he works from home. Then he texted me saying i want to watch,you cant make me select.i called him, we argued.me saying why he said something in the eve and telling something else now etc he said im watching what will u do? I said i dont have time to discuss now we will do later and finished the call. Then i called him later.he told me i tried to control so he will leave,he has told everyone etc.


So your husband had photographs of women singers on the web browser. 

Why is it wrong for him to look at photos of female performers? He cannot have any kind of relationship with them.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> So your husband had photographs of women singers on the web browser.
> 
> Why is it wrong for him to look at photos of female performers? He cannot have any kind of relationship with them.


if he wanted to listen to the song,he should have.but what is the purpose of looking at the photos? Why is he looking...? What does he gain by wasting time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

he didnt look at me or touch me since april 23rd and suddenly he was looking at other women.not very famous ones. Ones who he can contact through facebook..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> he didnt look at me or touch me since april 23rd and suddenly he was looking at other women.not very famous ones. Ones who he can contact through facebook..


Were these women local to where you live?

Women like that have a lot of men who talk to them on facebook. Often, if they are making real money singing, they are not even the person who responds on Facebook, twitter, etc. These women probably could care less about some guy sending them facebook messages. What they want is for their web relevance numbers to go up so that they (the women) can get more contracts, get ads on their youtube videos, etc.

That said, I can understand you feeling insecure about him doing this when he has been rejecting you for months. 

If he had been rejecting you for months... it's clear that he was falling out of love with you a long time ago. Once a man starts rejecting his wife sexually, he's done. He just needed the right excuse to leave. For him the right excuse was to pretend that you insulted his mother, .. etc.

You really need to move on.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Were these women local to where you live?
> 
> Women like that have a lot of men who talk to them on facebook. Often, if they are making real money singing, they are not even the person who responds on Facebook, twitter, etc. These women probably could care less about some guy sending them facebook messages. What they want is for their web relevance numbers to go up so that they (the women) can get more contracts, get ads on their youtube videos, etc.
> 
> That said, I can understand you feeling insecure about him doing this when he has been rejecting you for months.
> 
> If he had been rejecting you for months... it's clear that he was falling out of love with you a long time ago. Once a man starts rejecting his wife sexually, he's done. He just needed the right excuse to leave. For him the right excuse was to pretend that you insulted his mother, .. etc.
> 
> You really need to move on.


not local. When he was chatting before,that was with foreign women too.. 
The sexually rejecting started because i asked him to ask his mother to come later. Not the other way around. (rejecting 1st and making mother issue the excuse to leave) he said he loves me less after i requested her to change dates of the visit. Then he stopped being physical.then on aug 5th he said he loves me,wants to touch me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> not local. When he was chatting before,that was with foreign women too..
> The sexually rejecting started because i asked him to ask his mother to come later. Not the other way around. (rejecting 1st and making mother issue the excuse to leave) he said he loves me less after i requested her to change dates of the visit. Then he stopped being physical.then on aug 5th he said he loves me,wants to touch me.


Thanks for clearing that up.

He still went a few months without sex. That does pretty much say that you stopped loving you. Punishing you for asking his mother to change the visit date became more important to him than you. That means that he did not love you back then. A man who loves his wife, puts his wife first. 

He told you that he loved you on august 5th because he wanted sex. Not because he loved you. If he loved you he would not have left.

.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> He still went a few months without sex. That does pretty much say that you stopped loving you. Punishing you for asking his mother to change the visit date became more important to him than you. That means that he did not love you back then. A man who loves his wife, puts his wife first.
> 
> He told you that he loved you on august 5th because he wanted sex. Not because he loved you. If he loved you he would not have left.
> 
> .


what i want to make sure is that if he means it this time or if he will tell me he loves me again when the anger will be gone.. He is used to using 'i dont love u' as a way to punish me.the therapist also said that.. Everytime he is angry with me for something, he says the love is gone..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

I have a theory...

Him not caring for his mother without being conjoled and then using the excuse of you not caring for his mother as excuse to leave smacks of affair to me and this is where I would call his bluff.

"Husband, I am not buying the excuse for you wanting to leave because of "lack of care" for your mother since her care wasnt your priority prior to that and I had to conjole you to engage her. When you can be honest with me, then I'll talk, until then dont waste my time."


He may be wanting to leave, but I can tell you right now, it aint because of his mama. She just provided a convenient excuse for him to use to cover his tracks for something else. He saw the opportunity and ran with it. She has no idea he is using her right now. Now the uncle makes sense to me. He knows he is lying and was trying to build his credibility. The rental house and kids request is just to keep mama apoeased so the ruse stays in tact. The rest is him laying out his life to cheat. Thats the theory... If it resonates, I hope it helps you find the truth, if not just disregard


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## Blossom Leigh

How do your parents think you should handle the controlling women and abusive husband?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> How do your parents think you should handle the controlling women and abusive husband?


as for the women, my parents think he should take care of the mother.. They think he should move her in..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> as for the women, my parents think he should take care of the mother.. They think he should move her in..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand this cultural thing because one of my best friends in highschool was Vietnamese. All the children sent the mother money as they left home to work. You asking her to wait one month was totally reasonable. This boy has got something else going on.


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## turnera

While we're on the topic of the videos again, I want to reiterate - from a different place than the last time you brought it up - that looking at videos is completely normal and harmless, unless you are then actually reaching out to those people. Why do you think youtube is so popular? I joke with my H all the time when he talks about a good-looking young woman, saying he wants to hook up with one, and I just laugh back and say go ahead and try; see if she'll take you. We both know he won't; it's healthy to be able to to open about it rather than me trying to control who he looks at, who he lusts after. 

As you get older, you'll understand that trying to control him that way is not healthy; rather, BE the better choice so he has no reason to ever reach out to someone else. 

Now, all that aside, what he is doing is not a healthy response and needs to be addressed before you two ever get back together. Which is why I keep urging you to urge him to go into therapy; it doesn't work overnight and he has 30 years of dysfunction to get rid of - if he were to go into therapy, it would take him at least 6 months to a year of therapy to see any real difference. And that's assuming he really wanted to go in the first place. I finally got my H to go by threatening to leave HIM if he didn't go. Well, he went, nodded his head, agreed, and then went home and completely ignored what we'd discussed.

Bottom line, the only way for you to have a healthy marriage is for you to show him that YOU will be respected or you will be divorced. He simply must respect you as an equal to him (meaning he can't continue to pull this kind of crap) or he will lose you. That's the stance you have to take. Anything less than that and, when/if you get back together, you'll be right back here in another year after he goes right back to doing all the wrong stuff.


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## EleGirl

Blossom Leigh said:


> I understand this cultural thing because one of my best friends in highschool was Vietnamese. All the children sent the mother money as they left home to work. You asking her to wait one month was totally reasonable. This boy has got something else going on.


The idea that he is cheating makes sense. It certainly explain s a lot of things: why he does not want sex with Path; why he wants to be able to chat with other women; and keep his passwords secret. It explains why he wants to work abroad.


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## Blossom Leigh

What do your parents think of his list of demands?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> What do your parents think of his list of demands?


they think renting is an unwanted expense when we can live here without any trouble. he even has a "man cave" room in this house.
he can move in his mother, there are no objections to that. 


they think if he wants a kid we should have one. 

they think he should share the passwords with me. if he has nothing to hide, why be so secretive..


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> they think renting is an unwanted expense when we can live here without any trouble. he even has a "man cave" room in this house.
> 
> 
> if he has nothing to hide, why be so secretive..


I see your parents as wise... Glad you have them


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## finding-a-path

his uncle has been very supportive too. i have expressed my concerns about renting to him and he said he will talk with my husband.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> his uncle has been very supportive too. i have expressed my concerns about renting to him and he said he will talk with my husband.


I think in time his true motives will be revealed. Glad to know the Uncle isnt blindly agreeing.


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## tripad

Openminded said:


> If what you want to do is wait two months and give him another chance to see if things work then that's what you will end up doing. But the odds are excellent that things won't work. Why? Because of the influence his family has with him. Do you want your MIL living with you for the rest of her life? To her (and maybe to him), obviously, your status is lower than her status. He'll never support you over her.





EleGirl said:


> This is because his mother is backing him up, telling him that he's right, you are wrong. They are now a team against you.


speaking from experience , it wont work out unless u play his game his way . can u ?

otherwise , divorce before u have children and have babies with someone who will put you first .

he even listens to his uncle to leave you for two months ???
ask him to sleep with his uncle the next time he wants to touch you .

I jus file divorce , situation similar but much worse than yours as I have tolerated it for longer and now have two children under my wings .

My MIL thinks she owns me and even my money too !!!


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## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> strange thing is he did not have a close bond with his mother. when i told him to get a gift for her on birthdays/new year etc he refused. when she calls he sometimes does not answer and does not call back till i remind him. now suddenly he is the dutiful son.


mine the same case .

The mum must have cried and played his emotions against you .
She wins ultimately unless your husband have backbones and stand up for you .

Better think about moving on while you are young and less damaged as I am .

Time will heal . You will survive . I am healing .


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> mine the same case .
> 
> The mum must have cried and played his emotions against you .
> She wins ultimately unless your husband have backbones and stand up for you .
> 
> Better think about moving on while you are young and less damaged as I am .
> 
> Time will heal . You will survive . I am healing .


I am trying to decide...but it is not easy.... just waiting and letting time heal/show me the way things will shape up..


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## finding-a-path

the counseling session will be on tomorrow evening.


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## tripad

Yep Decision is never easy 

My counsellor told me I'm so many yrs late in seeking help . 

Sad that a man can't be a man n stand up for his wife .

Sad that a mother would destroy his son's marriage .

Think for your own happiness n to let go if he's not placing your happiness first - lesson I learnt 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> Yep Decision is never easy
> 
> My counsellor told me I'm so many yrs late in seeking help .
> 
> Sad that a man can't be a man n stand up for his wife .
> 
> Sad that a mother would destroy his son's marriage .
> 
> Think for your own happiness n to let go if he's not placing your happiness first - lesson I learnt
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i wish she didnt create this huge problem. Wish she just said ok i will come after the exam... That day,she started screaming at me saying 'you told me not to come because it is YOUR house' no matter how much i explained,she kept talking about the house... She must have told that to my husband too and then he must have felt that way. 
I cant study.i keep thinking what to do.... I wish HE understood me..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Path,

What are you doing for yourself these days?


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## tripad

Is she doesn't create this problem , she wld create another . This lesson I learnt the hard way . 

The problem doesn't lie with the problem . The problem lies with the person . 

No matter how u try to solve the problem , there will be another problem for you to solve if the creator of the problem wants to create problems . I get that for years 

For your own future sake , mind over heart , concentrate on your exams if that's your original purpose .
Another lesson I learn , never sacrifice yourself n your own future for love or another person . 

If that person loves you , he would want the best for you and for you to achieve your best . 

Just like how i love my children and I want the best fir them and for them to achieve the best . 

He's not worth it if he doesn't want the best for you .

Speaking from experience
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path,
> 
> What are you doing for yourself these days?


I have started reading a chicken soup for the soul book. (would have loved the divorce and recovery one.but i never purchased it.so reading another title of the series) 
i have counseling today.
I eat and sleep well.
But,cant stop thinking about how his love can be gone in 1 day...
Cant stop thinking about how he is staying without caring.
I get this hard to breathe thing once a day or something. Going to talk about it today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

people on the internet who have never met me in my life care more about me than my husband who has known me for 8 years. Life is a strange thing...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Path,

You need something outside of yourself to put your attention into.

Are pets something that people where you live have normally? Getting a kitten or a young dog might help you a lot. They need attention and they give back a lot of love. If you are up to it, this might be a good time to get one.

Or, is there a friend or relative who can come stay with you for a while?


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path,
> 
> You need something outside of yourself to put your attention into.
> 
> Are pets something that people where you live have normally? Getting a kitten or a young dog might help you a lot. They need attention and they give back a lot of love. If you are up to it, this might be a good time to get one.
> 
> Or, is there a friend or relative who can come stay with you for a while?


few cats at my parents home.i spend time with them,give them food,cuddle them. We had 2 outdoor cats coming for food to our home too.even though i am with my parents i go and give them food everyday too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> people on the internet who have never met me in my life care more about me than my husband who has known me for 8 years. Life is a strange thing...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Empathy and compassion. Many of us have walked through the fires you are walking through. Let the good envelop you. It will make it easier to spot the bad.


----------



## finding-a-path

got a call from the therapist's office... They told me to come on 28th at 4pm. One more day to wait now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

I love him.but i dont think he values me or what i have done for him.and he does not love me. So maybe best thing is the divorce. I have been faithful,i took care of him, listened to his problems, had good sex (never said lights must be off/cant do that or this etc), gave him great gifts, we have shared interests, have supported his career, i massaged him when he was tired,never forgot his birthday, learned to cook for him. I loved him more than anything. But, im not good for him.his mother told me 'we didnt want a beautiful educated working girl like you for our son' meaning they wanted an ugly (dont mean to be insulting) uneducated woman who would stay home and take care of his mom and aunt.maybe that is what he wants too  i am hurting. But everyday,i am thinking more about divorce. Just loving him so much, thinking that this could be the bipolar and my parents saying to give this a try before giving up are the reasons which are preventing me from taking the final decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You're in no hurry. Just take things one day at a time.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You're in no hurry. Just take things one day at a time.


it's hard... I am going to ask the therapist if it will be a good idea to call husband and say i want to meet and talk with him.... it has been 6 days without any contact and we have never done that in 8 years. i think he does not even think about me... so , might be better to meet and decide on divorce.


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## turnera

path, come on. What do you think is going to be different today than a week ago? He's trying to freeze you out so you come back begging. Nothing more. You calling him is giving him exactly what he wants. If YOU can't even respect yourself enough to be freakin' PISSED OFF AT HIM for treating you this badly...how can you expect HIM to respect you?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, come on. What do you think is going to be different today than a week ago? He's trying to freeze you out so you come back begging. Nothing more. You calling him is giving him exactly what he wants. If YOU can't even respect yourself enough to be freakin' PISSED OFF AT HIM for treating you this badly...how can you expect HIM to respect you?


i am not going to beg him. I am just going to ask him to meet and talk about the renting. If he likes. And if he cant, we will start the divorce proceedings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Why specifically the renting?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Why specifically the renting?


it is the most urgent thing. When he came with uncle he said he will come back in 2 months.but when he went to his mother's rented house,that changed and he said we shall rent.so i thought she must have said she cant come here and that is why he changed his word. So if we discuss and if i can let him see that we will waste money by renting, we as a team might be able to change his mothers 'assumed fears' (its not my son's house so his wife will treat me bad etc) then they both can come here..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> it is the most urgent thing. When he came with uncle he said he will come back in 2 months.but when he went to his mother's rented house,that changed and he said we shall rent.so i thought she must have said she cant come here and that is why he changed his word. So if we discuss and if i can let him see that we will waste money by renting, we as a team might be able to change his mothers 'assumed fears' (its not my son's house so his wife will treat me bad etc) then they both can come here..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you meet with him be prepared for him to add to this of demands out of the blue...


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> If you meet with him be prepared for him to add to this of demands out of the blue...


the alternative is waiting without contacting.. And he will not contact me too.then this will drag for months...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i cant stop thinking HOW he is staying without showing any emotions.i know he builts a wall once someone hurts him.(or when he thinks someone hurt him) but there must be some pain..? He must be remembering me..? Or is an emotional wall so powerful that he feels nothing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> it is the most urgent thing. When he came with uncle he said he will come back in 2 months.but when he went to his mother's rented house,that changed and he said we shall rent.so i thought she must have said she cant come here and that is why he changed his word. So if we discuss and if i can let him see that we will waste money by renting, we as a team might be able to change his mothers 'assumed fears' (its not my son's house so his wife will treat me bad etc) then they both can come here..


His mother does not like you at all. Do you really want someone who strongly dislikes you living with you? To make it even worse she and your husband have now joined as a time. It will be two of them against you on everything. 

If you live with that woman in your home, your life is going to be miserable, absolutely miserable. 

Why would you even consider having her live with you.

To be honest you do not sound strong enough to talk to your husband or to deal with his mother. I agree with the others that you need to NOT contact him. If you do he will take that as meaning that he and his mother have control over you.

You seriously need to file for divorce. This is all not good at all.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> the alternative is waiting without contacting.. And he will not contact me too.then this will drag for months...


You can put an end to it by YOU filing for divorce.


If you talk to him, are you going to give in and give him everything he asked for? Because that's what he wants.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> i cant stop thinking HOW he is staying without showing any emotions.i know he builts a wall once someone hurts him.(or when he thinks someone hurt him) but there must be some pain..? He must be remembering me..? Or is an emotional wall so powerful that he feels nothing?


You need to stop this. Stop thinking about him. Every time he comes to your mind, stop yourself and think about something that you really enjoy that has nothing to do with him. It's called thought re-direction.

When I do though re-direction I usually thing of either walking in the waves on a beach or skiing down a mountain. It works wonders.


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## finding-a-path

ok... so i went to counseling and now i am back.. i have talked about everything and i feel calm now. he told me to concentrate on the exam and advised me very well. 

about my husband, he told me to call him and say that i will speak to his mother.and that they both can move in here.yes, i know that is not what you think the best thing is. but according to our culture , it is common for the son/daughter to take care of parents and i also think i shall not object that.i shall not deprive him of that.but, the twist is , i tell them that after i write a list of pros and cons of talking to them and make up my mind. so no hurry..

and if he says he does not love me after the 2 months, i am to file for divorce.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> You need to stop this. Stop thinking about him. Every time he comes to your mind, stop yourself and think about something that you really enjoy that has nothing to do with him. It's called thought re-direction.
> 
> When I do though re-direction I usually thing of either walking in the waves on a beach or skiing down a mountain. It works wonders.


thank you..and i think i am going to stop thinking about him like this.counselor said,he went because he does not want to be with me and we cant force anyone and one sided love does not give anyone a happy marriage.and i stand "educated".


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> ok... so i went to counseling and now i am back.. i have talked about everything and i feel calm now. he told me to concentrate on the exam and advised me very well.
> 
> about my husband, he told me to call him and say that i will speak to his mother.and that they both can move in here.yes, i know that is not what you think the best thing is. but according to our culture , it is common for the son/daughter to take care of parents and i also think i shall not object that.i shall not deprive him of that.but, the twist is , i tell them that after i write a list of pros and cons of talking to them and make up my mind. so no hurry..
> 
> and if he says he does not love me after the 2 months, i am to file for divorce.


If you move his mother and him into your home, your life will be a continuous nightmare! You dont welcome someone who hates you into your home! :scratchhead: Have some self respect, some self preservation!


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## finding-a-path

3Xnocharm said:


> If you move his mother and him into your home, your life will be a continuous nightmare! You dont welcome someone who hates you into your home! :scratchhead: Have some self respect, some self preservation!


i know i will face problems.. if she sees that i am no threat, she might not hate me like this anymore.. i am thinking of this as a challenge. not going to worry about it much and just going to do it and see how it turns out...


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> i know i will face problems.. if she sees that i am no threat, she might not hate me like this anymore.. i am thinking of this as a challenge. not going to worry about it much and just going to do it and see how it turns out...


If you don't want to be upset, don't expect her to be different. You need to go into this KNOWING she will be mean to you. "MIL, I'm sorry you feel you have to be cruel, must be miserable to have to live with that negativity, have a nice day, and tralala off to work." Do NOT internalize her cruelty. 

Your behavior is not going to change this woman. So don't try to earn her affection. Just be you. She can choose to accept you or not. Its your home, she will be a guest. You keep your internal peace. If she wants to be a b**** that's on her. 

I suspect your H will stay out... take it as a blessing in disguise. I like how your counselor thinks. Two months "I don't love you" divorce... gotta love a decisive man.


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## turnera

What you REALLY need at this point - since you're seeing your therapist today - is to learn to love yourself for once. To NOT be SO dependent on having a man - ANY man - 'choose' you for you to feel valid or important or valuable.

The only REAL problem here, path, is that YOU have no self worth.

Ask your therapist today to fix THAT. Oh, and print out this thread and hand it to her, ok?


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## Blossom Leigh

Is the counselor a man or woman?


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## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> i am not going to beg him. I am just going to ask him to meet and talk about the renting. If he likes. And if he cant, we will start the divorce proceedings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are still basing your decision to divorce on his call .

decide what is best for yourself and do what is necessary .

he doesn't value you . you shld value yourself. jus know that one day you will look back and will glad that you chose a path that gives yourself more happiness


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> If you don't want to be upset, don't expect her to be different. You need to go into this KNOWING she will be mean to you. "MIL, I'm sorry you feel you have to be cruel, must be miserable to have to live with that negativity, have a nice day, and tralala off to work." Do NOT internalize her cruelty.
> 
> Your behavior is not going to change this woman. So don't try to earn her affection. Just be you. She can choose to accept you or not. Its your home, she will be a guest. You keep your internal peace. If she wants to be a b**** that's on her.
> 
> I suspect your H will stay out... take it as a blessing in disguise. I like how your counselor thinks. Two months "I don't love you" divorce... gotta love a decisive man.


yes. he told me to just treat it as a challenge and do it and see. i too think my husband will not interfere.let's see what happens..


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## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> i know i will face problems.. if she sees that i am no threat, she might not hate me like this anymore.. i am thinking of this as a challenge. not going to worry about it much and just going to do it and see how it turns out...


She is going to make sure you suffer and she will drive her son to divorce you or you to madness .

n your H is going to side her .

If you are able to play that game , then that's your call .

Is that love from your husband ?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> What you REALLY need at this point - since you're seeing your therapist today - is to learn to love yourself for once. To NOT be SO dependent on having a man - ANY man - 'choose' you for you to feel valid or important or valuable.
> 
> The only REAL problem here, path, is that YOU have no self worth.
> 
> Ask your therapist today to fix THAT. Oh, and print out this thread and hand it to her, ok?


i already went and came back..i do know i am important,valuable and valid without him. in fact he does not figure in the scale of my value/importance. him or any man for that matter. he might be there or he might not be there. but my value as an individual does not depend on him being here or not..


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Is the counselor a man or woman?


A man.


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> She is going to make sure you suffer and she will drive her son to divorce you or you to madness .
> 
> n your H is going to side her .
> 
> If you are able to play that game , then that's your call .
> 
> Is that love from your husband ?


No.that is not love. i am prepared to give it a chance and see. that is what the counselor told me too..


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## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> yes. he told me to just treat it as a challenge and do it and see. i too think my husband will not interfere.let's see what happens..


I think your husband is very manipulative , sorry to have to say that .

to ask you to do as a challenge to achieve what he wants , and you doing it at your very best !

means you have no rights to voice your displeasure or its not your best !

maybe you shld ask him to take on the challenge to get his mum off your back for a month or two


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## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> No.that is not love. i am prepared to give it a chance and see. that is what the counselor told me too..


if you also think it is also not love , any point to stay ?

You are probably not ready to let go .

n hoping things will change .

experience tells me that people don't change . I wish I had learnt that earlier.

don't make the mistake I made


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i already went and came back..i do know i am important,valuable and valid without him. in fact he does not figure in the scale of my value/importance. him or any man for that matter. he might be there or he might not be there. but my value as an individual does not depend on him being here or not..


Then why are you pinning all your decisions on whether HE wants YOU?

I disagree with your self assessment.


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## turnera

tripad said:


> I think your husband is very manipulative


Did I ever tell you what my manipulative, abusive ex-fiance said to me once? I was 18, he was 21, he'd gotten bored with me and I wasn't wild enough for him. He told me that he didn't think I was mature enough for him. That he needed a 'better' sort of 'woman' who was a better fit. But, because he loved me, he was going to give me one more chance. He was going to give me 6 months to prove myself. To prove to him that I could act like an adult, that I could be the wild and crazy grownup woman he deserved. He said that, at the end of the 6 months, he'd decide whether I got to be his fiance any more.

Sound familiar?

Of course I begged him, I cried, I clung to him and vowed I'd do it, I'd show him that I was worthy of him 'keeping' me. I cut my hair, I gave up my 'immature' friends, I cut out my mom, I dressed like a hooker, and I did whatever he wanted in bed, just to keep him from leaving me. 

And then I found out after 3 years that he'd been cheating on me the whole time. 

It's this kind of thing that drives me to tell you to stop making what HE wants to important in YOUR life. Yeah, we all know you love him. But love isn't a good enough reason to turn yourself into his slave/cook/maid/mother-carer-for/hooker just to keep him in your life. 

Where's your self-respect?


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## tripad

turnera said:


> Then why are you pinning all your decisions on whether HE wants YOU?
> 
> I disagree with your self assessment.


I have to agree here , not meant to hurt you further OP .

But you have to realize the truth . Truth is always painful .

Your pain will be shorter and one day you will not feel it anymore .

You will be glad you don't have children with this man . Or else you still have to deal with him and his mother for the rest of your life . Imagine if you divorce him with children , he may plot and manipulate to have the children for his mother to look after and bring up. and what will the mother teach the children ????? to love you ???? or she will bad mouth you till the children wont accept you ????? Ypur pain will be worse then !!!! 

My mother lost her first born son to her evil MIL !!!! She regrets to this day and my mum is 71 yrs old.

The people here are all talking from experience . jus trying to help you from repeating our mistakes .


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> yes. he told me to just treat it as a challenge and do it and see. i too think my husband will not interfere.let's see what happens..


by "stay out" I did not mean "stay out of it" I meant... he's not coming back... just my opinion.. because I think he has another agenda...

and if he wants out and stays away... take it as a blessing in disguise...and move on..

I truly would be surprised if he came back.


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## Openminded

I'm familiar with the status given to parents in Asian culture. And the place of the son's wife in the family. You're kidding yourself if you think your mother-in-law is not going to continue to verbally abuse you for not being the submissive wife she feels her son deserves. You aren't what his family wanted for him and they aren't going to stop. If you want to live that life, that's obviously your decision. But it certainly won't be an easy one.


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> I think your husband is very manipulative , sorry to have to say that .
> 
> to ask you to do as a challenge to achieve what he wants , and you doing it at your very best !
> 
> means you have no rights to voice your displeasure or its not your best !
> 
> maybe you shld ask him to take on the challenge to get his mum off your back for a month or two


a little misunderstanding there.the therapist told me to think of living with husband's mother as a challenge.. Not as a problem.. Told me to just give it a chance and see. Not to plan everything thinking 'b will happen then i will do c then she will do d i will do e etc' just to live in the moment,face it and then decide what to do.in short not to worry much. Not to get afraid before even doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> if you also think it is also not love , any point to stay ?
> 
> You are probably not ready to let go .
> 
> n hoping things will change .
> 
> experience tells me that people don't change . I wish I had learnt that earlier.
> 
> don't make the mistake I made


because i want to see if he will say he loves me like he said before, because this might be the bipolar and because i want to try everything before i give up..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> a little misunderstanding there.the therapist told me to think of living with husband's mother as a challenge.. Not as a problem..


SURELY your therapist didn't tell you to leave your home and move into a rental?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Then why are you pinning all your decisions on whether HE wants YOU?
> 
> I disagree with your self assessment.


i want to work on the marriage before giving up. So i want him.but i cant force him to decide.if he wants me too then we work together.if he doesnt want me after 2 months, then we divorce. I am letting him select.my choice is made on what i want, his choice will be made on what he wants.and if both choices match,then only we can be married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

And you are willing to have children? And let him work overseas for extended periods? And move into a rental? Do you really think he'll compromise on those conditions? I don't -- because his family backs them. I think he'll probably continue with the marriage if you agree to his conditions. Otherwise, probably not. Only he knows if he will but, unless you agree, it doesn't look good.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> a little misunderstanding there.the therapist told me to think of living with husband's mother as a challenge.. Not as a problem.. Told me to just give it a chance and see. Not to plan everything thinking 'b will happen then i will do c then she will do d i will do e etc' just to live in the moment,face it and then decide what to do.in short not to worry much. Not to get afraid before even doing.


You are ignoring one simple fact... you tried to have her in your home already as a guest. And look what happened when she did not get her way 100%. She has done everything she could to turn your husband against you, to break up your marriage, to punish you, etc etc. 

You have already tried it. It did not work.

Your life will be a living hell if she moves in with you. Both she and your husband will be a team against you. 

I've been through this. Some of my other siblings have been through this with MILs and FILs. When it's bad, its' really bad.


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## tripad

EleGirl said:


> You are ignoring one simple fact... you tried to have her in your home already as a guest. And look what happened when she did not get her way 100%. She has done everything she could to turn your husband against you, to break up your marriage, to punish you, etc etc.
> 
> You have already tried it. It did not work.
> 
> Your life will be a living hell if she moves in with you. Both she and your husband will be a team against you.
> 
> I've been through this. Some of my other siblings have been through this with MILs and FILs. When it's bad, its' really bad.


yes:iagree:

It works only if his mum and he gets his way .
you are the only one suffering n silently n quietly.
complains are not entertained .

If that's your wish to try .
My advice is don't get pregnant in the mean time please .
Don't let the children suffer along with you .
They will be very sad kids to see the mother sad n miserable .

slim chance it will work . Husband doesn't place you of any priority and he has his own team against you !

Now he manipulates you to accept his condition and otheriwise he moves out and emotionally reject you .

next time , he will do the same if he doesn't get his way or his mum doesn't get her way .

You will be the sad puppet they play with .

You will end up serving them like slaves in all ways ,

They will end up owning you .

there comes a day when their demands you cant take anymore and you divorce but you will be much older and with kids .

speaking from experience. I am Chinese so I am aware of the Chinese culture .

I wish I had left earlier .


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Did I ever tell you what my manipulative, abusive ex-fiance said to me once? I was 18, he was 21, he'd gotten bored with me and I wasn't wild enough for him. He told me that he didn't think I was mature enough for him. That he needed a 'better' sort of 'woman' who was a better fit. But, because he loved me, he was going to give me one more chance. He was going to give me 6 months to prove myself. To prove to him that I could act like an adult, that I could be the wild and crazy grownup woman he deserved. He said that, at the end of the 6 months, he'd decide whether I got to be his fiance any more.
> 
> Sound familiar?
> 
> Of course I begged him, I cried, I clung to him and vowed I'd do it, I'd show him that I was worthy of him 'keeping' me. I cut my hair, I gave up my 'immature' friends, I cut out my mom, I dressed like a hooker, and I did whatever he wanted in bed, just to keep him from leaving me.
> 
> And then I found out after 3 years that he'd been cheating on me the whole time.
> 
> It's this kind of thing that drives me to tell you to stop making what HE wants to important in YOUR life. Yeah, we all know you love him. But love isn't a good enough reason to turn yourself into his slave/cook/maid/mother-carer-for/hooker just to keep him in your life.
> 
> Where's your self-respect?


Prediction;

There are two outcomes to this....

MIL moves in and makes your home hell.

or 

Husband never comes back.

How do I know...


NO ONE is doing work on this but you.... they are making it about what THEY want... no way around that and NOTHING about what is best for you and your marriage. 

IF your husband loved you truly, from the get go he would have told your mother... "You can come stay, but on ONE condition... you MUST respect my wife. Otherwise, I will make other arrangements for your care. And you will arrive after her exam."


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i want to work on the marriage before giving up. So i want him.but i cant force him to decide.if he wants me too then we work together.if he doesnt want me after 2 months, then we divorce. I am letting him select.my choice is made on what i want, his choice will be made on what he wants.and if both choices match,then only we can be married.


Then why aren't you waiting the full two months? It's only been, what, 10 days? And you're already contacting him to try to arrange getting back together. You're basically doing the 'begging, clinging, crying' that I did with my ex.

Look. I know you love him and I know he's good to you when he feels like it. The problem is that he is EXTREMELY dysfunctional, he doesn't know HOW to be healthy in a relationship, so there's no way he will ever BECOME healthy in a relationship without him attending months, maybe years, of therapy. And the only way he'll ever go to therapy is if he wants to please YOU. And the only way he'll ever be in a position where he wants to please YOU is if he sees that he has to change to get to KEEP you. So you calling him up after only a week proves to him that you're so desperate to keep him that you'll accept his RIDICULOUS demands, become his slave/maid/cook/hooker, just to be in his life. 

Tell me how THAT will get him to think, 'hmm, I'd better step up my game, I'd better start making sure HER needs are met, I'd better go to therapy, or else I'll lose her.' Tell me how. You're not thinking logically.

I can see you saying 'ok, your mom can come stay here in my house.' Period. That's it. That's a great concession on your part but it doesn't turn you into his slave/etc. in HIS choice of home, in HIS territory where you have no rights, where HE gets to go out and screw as many women as he wants.

But it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing. It sounds like you're saying you'll agree to move into a new place with him and his mom and agree to all his ridiculous demands. 

Am I wrong?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> SURELY your therapist didn't tell you to leave your home and move into a rental?


no. the therapist told me to invite her to this house and treat it as a challenge and see what will happen.


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> yes:iagree:
> 
> It works only if his mum and he gets his way .
> you are the only one suffering n silently n quietly.
> complains are not entertained .
> 
> If that's your wish to try .
> My advice is don't get pregnant in the mean time please .
> Don't let the children suffer along with you .
> They will be very sad kids to see the mother sad n miserable .
> 
> slim chance it will work . Husband doesn't place you of any priority and he has his own team against you !
> 
> Now he manipulates you to accept his condition and otheriwise he moves out and emotionally reject you .
> 
> next time , he will do the same if he doesn't get his way or his mum doesn't get her way .
> 
> You will be the sad puppet they play with .
> 
> You will end up serving them like slaves in all ways ,
> 
> They will end up owning you .
> 
> there comes a day when their demands you cant take anymore and you divorce but you will be much older and with kids .
> 
> speaking from experience. I am Chinese so I am aware of the Chinese culture .
> 
> I wish I had left earlier .



i am not going to do any slavery/ serving for her. my husband will be fully aware of that before they move in.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Then why aren't you waiting the full two months? It's only been, what, 10 days? And you're already contacting him to try to arrange getting back together. You're basically doing the 'begging, clinging, crying' that I did with my ex.not contacting him.therapist told me to write a list of pros and cons of inviting her and make up my mind then only i ll contact
> 
> Look. I know you love him and I know he's good to you when he feels like it. The problem is that he is EXTREMELY dysfunctional, he doesn't know HOW to be healthy in a relationship, so there's no way he will ever BECOME healthy in a relationship without him attending months, maybe years, of therapy. And the only way he'll ever go to therapy is if he wants to please YOU. And the only way he'll ever be in a position where he wants to please YOU is if he sees that he has to change to get to KEEP you. So you calling him up after only a week proves to him that you're so desperate to keep him that you'll accept his RIDICULOUS demands, become his slave/maid/cook/hooker, just to be in his life.
> 
> Tell me how THAT will get him to think, 'hmm, I'd better step up my game, I'd better start making sure HER needs are met, I'd better go to therapy, or else I'll lose her.' Tell me how. You're not thinking logically.
> 
> I can see you saying 'ok, your mom can come stay here in my house.' Period. That's it. That's a great concession on your part but it doesn't turn you into his slave/etc. in HIS choice of home, in HIS territory where you have no rights, where HE gets to go out and screw as many women as he wants.
> 
> But it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing. It sounds like you're saying you'll agree to move into a new place with him and his mom and agree to all his ridiculous demands. no. i am just inviting them here. not saying i ll come with them
> 
> Am I wrong?


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i am not going to do any slavery/ serving for her. my husband will be fully aware of that before they move in.


So what happens if she and he refuse?

So, if you are NOT discussing moving with them...go for it. As long as you show strength in not agreeing to his ridiculous demands.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> So what happens if she and he refuse?
> 
> So, if you are NOT discussing moving with them...go for it. As long as you show strength in not agreeing to his ridiculous demands.


if they refuse i can file for divorce. He told me last friday that after we rent,we will get a visiting maid.i will tell him that we can be here,i have no objections for moving his mother in(i didnt have before too.i just said come after the exam,it is she who made it a big issue saying 'my son's wife told me not to come because its HER house' then she repeated that to my husband,and i guess she cried to him changing his mind.before,he had no problem being here.he was not sexist.he knew his pride didnt depend on whose house it is but on being a good husband) and we will need a staying in maid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

path, no offense, but you're full of sh*t. HE is full of sh*t. His MOTHER is full of sh*t. Each one of you is trying to stake a claim.

Just back off.

Just back off.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, no offense, but you're full of sh*t. HE is full of sh*t. His MOTHER is full of sh*t. Each one of you is trying to stake a claim.
> 
> Just back off.
> 
> Just back off.


why? I am not talking now. What do you mean by trying to stake a claim?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You want what you want. He wants what he wants. She wants what she wants. None of you are working in a collaborative environment.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You want what you want. He wants what he wants. She wants what she wants. None of you are working in a collaborative environment.


so what do you suggest then? I move where they want? I give in to the demands? You say dont move, i ll be a slave etc.then i say no,i will not be a slave,we will have a maid etc... In short i say i will speak up for myself.then you say i am wrong? what i want is to be önly with my husband.but,i am ready to invite his mom. I think thats collaborative enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> so what do you suggest then? I move where they want? I give in to the demands? You say dont move, i ll be a slave etc.then i say no,i will not be a slave,we will have a maid etc... In short i say i will speak up for myself.then you say i am wrong? what i want is to be önly with my husband.but,i am ready to invite his mom. I think thats collaborative enough.


They are not going to collaborate. 

The very fact that you are saying that you will allow her to move into your home shows that you are not strong enough to stand up for yourself. The fact that you are talking about contacting your husband to try to talk him into this further shows that you are not strong enough. You want your marriage more than he does. You love him more than he loves you. So you will give in. 

If you talk to him and his mother you will be sucked into a life that you do not really want.. all because you cannot accept the reality that your husband does not love you and your MIL will absolutely make your life miserable.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> They are not going to collaborate.
> 
> The very fact that you are saying that you will allow her to move into your home shows that you are not strong enough to stand up for yourself. The fact that you are talking about contacting your husband to try to talk him into this further shows that you are not strong enough. You want your marriage more than he does. You love him more than he loves you. So you will give in.
> 
> If you talk to him and his mother you will be sucked into a life that you do not really want.. all because you cannot accept the reality that your husband does not love you and your MIL will absolutely make your life miserable.


i can live without him. I am strong enough to do that. (which i understood after he left) all i am doing is doing what i can before giving up, negotiating,compromising. Because marriage is give and take. And so that i will not have any regrets later. I think she deserves a 2nd chance before i give up on her too.she has been good to me for 8 years before this and i did think of her as a mother to me... So if i can invite her,see how it goes and then decide,i will not have to look back and regret.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tripad

EleGirl said:


> They are not going to collaborate.
> 
> The very fact that you are saying that you will allow her to move into your home shows that you are not strong enough to stand up for yourself. The fact that you are talking about contacting your husband to try to talk him into this further shows that you are not strong enough. You want your marriage more than he does. You love him more than he loves you. So you will give in.
> 
> If you talk to him and his mother you will be sucked into a life that you do not really want.. all because you cannot accept the reality that your husband does not love you and your MIL will absolutely make your life miserable.



Agreed u r not sounding strong at all

U sound like u r desperate to have him back at all cost .

You lost . His mum n him win and they are probably sniggering tog that they beat u into submission . 

Be prepared to suffer . They will want more submission till u hav nothing of yourself left . They may even start to own your salary . My husband n his family did tt to me . 

Your husband may get you pregnant to trap u further . 
Beware . Take my advice . Don't get pregnant during this time .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> Agreed u r not sounding strong at all
> 
> U sound like u r desperate to have him back at all cost .
> 
> You lost . His mum n him win and they are probably sniggering tog that they beat u into submission .
> 
> Be prepared to suffer . They will want more submission till u hav nothing of yourself left . They may even start to own your salary . My husband n his family did tt to me .
> 
> Your husband may get you pregnant to trap u further .
> Beware . Take my advice . Don't get pregnant during this time .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


his aunt took his brother's salary and the wife had to ask for money from her. They are divorced now. I think this renting etc are aunt's ideas too.she must be the one poisioning his mother. Because the whole problem started after his mom moved in with aunt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

the aunt is the 1 who forced me to rent before we got married.now she must be saying 'son if you rented when i told u to,you could have moved your mother in without any problem'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> the aunt is the 1 who forced me to rent before we got married.now she must be saying 'son if you rented when i told u to,you could have moved your mother in without any problem'


so their view is that if the two of you rent a place, you are not you husband's equal and he can then do whatever he wants.. .move his mother is, see other women.

You need to be so careful. These people are bad news.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> the aunt is the 1 who forced me to rent before we got married.now she must be saying 'son if you rented when i told u to,you could have moved your mother in without any problem'
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, there's your source right there. Problem is now Mil and hubs is buying her agenda to push their own. If you are set at giving a second chance, love yourself enough and believe in yourself enough to look them square in the eye and make it very clear that you will state your case to help then see clear of the aunts toxic fog, but that this second chance is a one shot deal. State your case, then live your life with or without them. They must chose toxic or non toxic. 

Realize that you are on the outs already because you want this marriage more than both of them combined. You are setting yourself up for deep pain if you think otherwise and make decisions from that position. If the aunt fog doesnt lift, you've lost them both and thats not on you.


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## turnera

How did this all turn from having her come stay for a couple weeks to her moving in? Methinks that was their agenda all along.


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## Openminded

I realize you are strongly influenced by your culture but you have asked for advice and we've given it (from our Western point of view). Whether or not you take it is up to you but it appears you are looking for excuses to return to that life. If you can be happy with those choices, that's great. But I'm guessing you won't be. He and his family want a submissive wife and you're not it.


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## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> his aunt took his brother's salary and the wife had to ask for money from her. They are divorced now. I think this renting etc are aunt's ideas too.she must be the one poisioning his mother. Because the whole problem started after his mom moved in with aunt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


dont justify for the offender , to achieve the end you want .

even if true , the fact that she chose to listen , believe , and act on it , is totally her decision and or your hubby's decision .

even if true , do u think she will suddenly wake up n realise she had been 'poisoned'?

no she wont 

she wld cont to listen n believe n act on it and make u miserable and ultimately divorce like the "brother". maybe next time your husband dump you or hav a woman .


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> How did this all turn from having her come stay for a couple weeks to her moving in? Methinks that was their agenda all along.


1st, on April, she wanted to come stay for a month. then in May, when my husband found out that she has double cholesterol and a blocked artery, he wanted to move her in and take care of her. then also, i said ok let's do it after the exam (in May, we were thinking exam was to be held in July)


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> I realize you are strongly influenced by your culture but you have asked for advice and we've given it (from our Western point of view). Whether or not you take it is up to you but it appears you are looking for excuses to return to that life. If you can be happy with those choices, that's great. But I'm guessing you won't be. He and his family want a submissive wife and you're not it.


yes.. i do realize that i am influenced by culture.. i am not looking for excuses. i am trying to do this, see how it goes and then cut all ties if it does not work out... i believe in second chances and i believe that i shall try before giving up.. and i also believe that he shall be free to take care of his mother..


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> dont justify for the offender , to achieve the end you want .
> 
> even if true , the fact that she chose to listen , believe , and act on it , is totally her decision and or your hubby's decision .
> 
> even if true , do u think she will suddenly wake up n realise she had been 'poisoned'?
> 
> no she wont
> 
> she wld cont to listen n believe n act on it and make u miserable and ultimately divorce like the "brother". maybe next time your husband dump you or hav a woman .


i know... it will take months for her to see that i did not do anything wrong to her.. but i am ready to do it and see. (after writing the pros and cons list as the therapist said)


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> i know... it will take months for her to see that i did not do anything wrong to her.. but i am ready to do it and see. (after writing the pros and cons list as the therapist said)


no matter how many times I showed my mother, she never saw it

I injured myself severly thinkinhg she would


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## finding-a-path

His uncle told me to talk with him.. but i didn't want to.. then my mother called him and had a little chat. asking how he is etc. then i called him today after another talk with uncle.

i asked are you coming home or do you want to divorce? 

he said he wants a divorce. 

i asked do you like to go out and visit a lawyer today?

he said he is busy for a week.i said ok i ll go and meet a lawyer today. he said ok. 

he said he will go to meet his uncle.i asked what are you going to say.he said that he wants divorce.i asked what about renting etc.(his conditions) said they don't matter now.

i asked what his reason for divorce is..


he started going on about how i didn't like him to go out to drink. BEFORE marriage, before we began dating, i told him i don't want to get married to a drinker/ smoker and HE SAID he will stop. i trusted him.. trusted his word.and he didn't drink or smoke. on June 7th, he lied to me and went out to drink. then from that day to August he went out 5-6days to drink with friends and came home around 2am. (went at 5pm) so... i didn't fight, i asked him not to go for around 3 months because he went 7 or so days in 2 months.. (he drinks after work everyday since June 7th, i just asked him not to go on the off days.he works nights so i get to spend only 2-3 nights with him per week and him going means i only get 1-2 nights a week with him) so he said he won't go. now he says i didn't let him go. so why didn't he argue about it then and there? why say yes and bottle up ? it seems he has done this other times too..


then i asked no no what will you put as reason when you are filing. he says he does not have one and that i shall file.i said i don't want a divorce.you do.so you shall file. then he said he does not want a divorce and wants to be separated like this.

then i said you just let me know what your uncle says and i ended the call..


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## Blossom Leigh

Go back and look at what I've wriiten after 8/18. I predicted he would not come back and that he would add to his list against you. These are hallmarks of a cheater. It doesnt matter now because there is someone else. Get yourself and house legally protected asap. File for divorce for abandonment and dont look back.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Go back and look at what I've wriiten after 8/18. I predicted he would not come back and that he would add to his list against you. These are hallmarks of a cheater. It doesnt matter now because there is someone else. Get yourself and house legally protected asap. File for divorce for abandonment and dont look back.


 You did warn me.. And you said he wont come back.. How can i let go of the memory and dreams..? I am having trouble with that and i need help.. I cant stop thinking about the countless times he said he wants to be with me forever,that i am more important than any1 to him, that his love wont change no matter what etc. I have trouble connecting that man with this person he has become.. How can he do this.. I tried thinking about other things when i catch myself thinking about him.but it does not work... I think i need to know how he can switch off love..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> You did warn me.. And you said he wont come back.. How can i let go of the memory and dreams..? I am having trouble with that and i need help.. I cant stop thinking about the countless times he said he wants to be with me forever,that i am more important than any1 to him, that his love wont change no matter what etc. I have trouble connecting that man with this person he has become.. How can he do this.. I tried thinking about other things when i catch myself thinking about him.but it does not work... I think i need to know how he can switch off love..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because tainted his feelings for you with the love of another, Darlin'

When the heart opens to another love... The old love is never the same.


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## finding-a-path

do i file or wait? part of me wants to file, part of me wants to wait and another part says he wants a divorce so i shall let him do all the work...


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## Blossom Leigh

What would be the reason to wait?


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> You did warn me.. And you said he wont come back.. How can i let go of the memory and dreams..?


No offense, but you do it by growing up, being an adult about this, and accepting that you have a new path now. You start looking forward instead of just looking out the window waiting for him to come home.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> What would be the reason to wait?


because i don't want to give him what he wants on a platter. and i need to come to terms with the loss, i want to see if this is an episode of bipolar etc... and the part of me which loves him wants to wait too.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> No offense, but you do it by growing up, being an adult about this, and accepting that you have a new path now. You start looking forward instead of just looking out the window waiting for him to come home.


thanks... but it is hard, i know someday i ll be over it. but for now, it is hard.. did you read what he said to me? do you think he is playing games?


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## turnera

Honestly, I think he's probably tired of dealing with your emotionalness. He just wants a silent, obedient woman who treats him like a god, and you aren't doing any of that.


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## Revamped

finding-a-path said:


> because i don't want to give him what he wants on a platter. and i need to come to terms with the loss, i want to see if this is an episode of bipolar etc... and the part of me which loves him wants to wait too.


Why not give it to him on a silver platter? What's so terribly wrong with the idea? If you love him, as you SAY you do, set him free. 

You can't hold captive something, someone you never had in the first place.

Dream another dream. Let go. Dream bigger, better....


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Honestly, I think he's probably tired of dealing with your emotionalness. He just wants a silent, obedient woman who treats him like a god, and you aren't doing any of that.


i am not emotional with him all the time. Funny thing is i did treat him like god. I even delivered his food to him like a waitress! Did everything. I meant about the filing for divorce, 1st he says he wants,then he asks me to file,then says no he just wants to be separated.is he playing games till i say i will agree to whatever he wants..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> *because i don't want to give him what he wants on a platter. *and i need to come to terms with the loss, i want to see if this is an episode of bipolar etc... and the part of me which loves him wants to wait too.


If you do not file, you are giving him what he wants on a platter.

The divorce is going to happen. If you let him file, you let him define the terms of the divorce. He can put down anything he wants. And then YOU will have to fight to keep anything at all.

If you file first, she show you that you have rights and that he does not decide your fate for you.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> i am not emotional with him all the time. Funny thing is i did treat him like god. I even delivered his food to him like a waitress! Did everything. I meant about the filing for divorce, 1st he says he wants,then he asks me to file,then says no he just wants to be separated.is he playing games till i say i will agree to whatever he wants..?


Yes he's playing games about the divorce in that he does not want you to file first because he wants the upper hand.


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## finding-a-path

Revamped said:


> Why not give it to him on a silver platter? What's so terribly wrong with the idea? If you love him, as you SAY you do, set him free.
> 
> You can't hold captive something, someone you never had in the first place.
> 
> Dream another dream. Let go. Dream bigger, better....


why would i file just because he wants? In the previous posts,i have been asked 'why are you deciding based on what he wants' so i am doing things on my terms now. That means i ll file WHEN I WANT. not because he wants. 
What hurts is i did have him. His logic is once he thinks 'i dont want this' then he doesnt need that ever. I think it is his way of coping when something hurts. He has wanted a fathers love, a 'present' mother etc and when he couldnt have, his coping tactic was closing off and thinking i dont want that. That is what he is doing to me too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Yes he's playing games about the divorce in that he does not want you to file first because he wants the upper hand.


but,he told me to file 1st. Said he does not want to file..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> but,he told me to file 1st. Said he does not want to file..?





finding-a-path said:


> he said he wants a divorce.
> 
> .....
> 
> then i asked no no what will you put as reason when you are filing. he says he does not have one and that i shall file.i said i don't want a divorce.you do.so you shall file. then he said he does not want a divorce and wants to be separated like this.



He said he wants a divorce
he told you to file
then he said that he does not want a divorce and wants to be separated

Why? To keep you confused and to keep him in control. 

You told him that you would not file. You told him that you do not want a divorce. So he knows that you can still play games with you. He thinks that you will hang on hoping to get him back. He can file when ever he wants to and really play games.

What are the laws where you live about divorce. Can he ask for you house? Or can he force you to sell it so that he gets a big hunk of your assets?


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> He said he wants a divorce
> he told you to file
> then he said that he does not want a divorce and wants to be separated
> 
> Why? To keep you confused and to keep him in control.
> 
> You told him that you would not file. You told him that you do not want a divorce. So he knows that you can still play games with you. He thinks that you will hang on hoping to get him back. He can file when ever he wants to and really play games.
> 
> What are the laws where you live about divorce. Can he ask for you house? Or can he force you to sell it so that he gets a big hunk of your assets?


I see now. So if i made up my mind and file, this game playing and control would be over.. 
He cant ask for the house.because it is in my name and i got it before marriage. House cant be sold because of the loan.
He does not have a reason to file for divorce. 3 reasons are valid here. Sexual inability which was present before marriage, an affair, leaving. He does not have any grounds to file.. That is why he wanted me to file.then he said he just wants to live separated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> I see now. So if i made up my mind and file, this game playing and control would be over..
> He cant ask for the house.because it is in my name and i got it before marriage. House cant be sold because of the loan.
> He does not have a reason to file for divorce. 3 reasons are valid here. Sexual inability which was present before marriage, an affair, leaving. He does not have any grounds to file.. That is why he wanted me to file.then he said he just wants to live separated.


Yep, you can file for him leaving you. 

And yep, if you file, you put an end to his nonsense. Even though he mentioned you filing, I don't think he expects you to file. 

Right now you are his plan B, he can stay just separated, he can cheat, go out drinking, etc... then if he gets sick, gets tired of the party life, he thinks he can just come back, move back into your home and he thinks you would have to take care of him.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Yep, you can file for him leaving you.
> 
> And yep, if you file, you put an end to his nonsense. Even though he mentioned you filing, I don't think he expects you to file.
> 
> Right now you are his plan B, he can stay just separated, he can cheat, go out drinking, etc... then if he gets sick, gets tired of the party life, he thinks he can just come back, move back into your home and he thinks you would have to take care of him.


i think i will meet a lawyer and start filing process after my exam,which is on middle of Sep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

any good books about going through divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> any good books about going through divorce?



I don't know of any good divorce books off hand, others might.

Assuming that you can get books from Amazon. Maybe you could search on "Divorce" and look through what they have.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> I don't know of any good divorce books off hand, others might.
> 
> Assuming that you can get books from Amazon. Maybe you could search on "Divorce" and look through what they have.


i searched amazon this morning.but it seemed there are a lot about finances in divorce,child custody etc but not on emotions of divorce... So i thought maybe people here can tell me about the good ones.. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i searched amazon this morning.but it seemed there are a lot about finances in divorce,child custody etc but not on emotions of divorce... So i thought maybe people here can tell me about the good ones..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Eat, Pray, Love.


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## finding-a-path

been thinking, been crying in the bathroom. but finally wrapping my head around the idea that this man loved me, but not anymore and that i need to let go.. it hurts, but it is the right thing to do. the time i invested, the feelings i had/have, memories, dreams... have to close this chapter with all those in it.. i hope he will be happy. i have tried but when the man says going out to drinking is more important than love and marriage,when the man cant forget the fact that i asked his mother to visit us later because of my exam, it is time to stop trying.... 

our time together is over. i know i ll never get to touch him again. i used to love hugging him.. it just felt so nice and secure.. i am so sad when i think that i won't ever see him showering naked at our home, hopping here and there, sleeping in our bed etc.. sometimes i used to just watch him when he was asleep. i am so sad when i think that i won't have sex with him again.. but, i am dealing with all these feelings and trying to be strong.. we had a special connection.. but it's all gone now..


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## finding-a-path

There are many men in the world. but for me, he has always been the most handsome one.. i have known every inch of that body which i ll never touch again.. to share a bed for 4 years and then becoming strangers is very sad.. I have always loved waking up next to him.. at the end of a busy work day, i come home and seeing his smile refreshes me.. i loved making food for him.. i loved watching movies with him.. he has been the center of my world.. i trusted him, i wanted to grow old with him.i even loved massaging him when he said his legs hurt...i know my friends don't do that. they complain if they have to massage husband's shoulders for 2 minutes... I have always encouraged him in things related to his career... don't know how he could just forget everything.. but he will have a special place in my heart forever. even though no one has hurt me like him...


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## lancaster

Finding you will get through this. It will take time, but you will be okay as the days pass and time marches on. You will be okay.


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> There are many men in the world. but for me, he has always been the most handsome one.. i have known every inch of that body which i ll never touch again.. to share a bed for 4 years and then becoming strangers is very sad.. I have always loved waking up next to him.. at the end of a busy work day, i come home and seeing his smile refreshes me.. i loved making food for him.. i loved watching movies with him.. he has been the center of my world.. i trusted him, i wanted to grow old with him.i even loved massaging him when he said his legs hurt...i know my friends don't do that. they complain if they have to massage husband's shoulders for 2 minutes... I have always encouraged him in things related to his career... don't know how he could just forget everything.. but he will have a special place in my heart forever. even though no one has hurt me like him...


You are romanticizing things, here. Reminding yourself of how things REALLY were will help you to start to recover. What you are remembering here is those small crumbs of good stuff that you were tossed in between the real crap.


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## finding-a-path

3Xnocharm said:


> You are romanticizing things, here. Reminding yourself of how things REALLY were will help you to start to recover. What you are remembering here is those small crumbs of good stuff that you were tossed in between the real crap.


this is the real deal.. things were like this for 5-6 months, then there will be a fight and the crap will happen for 1-2 months...


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## finding-a-path

browsed divorce books again. Decided to get the chicken soup for the soul divorce and recovery book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> this is the real deal.. things were like this for 5-6 months, then there will be a fight and the crap will happen for 1-2 months...


So in 4 years, you'd have 5 months of bliss and then 2 months of torture, then 5 months of bliss, and 2 months of punishment...basically twice a year you were being punished a month or two at a time for things not going his way. That's how the books describe mental abuse, path.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> So in 4 years, you'd have 5 months of bliss and then 2 months of torture, then 5 months of bliss, and 2 months of punishment...basically twice a year you were being punished a month or two at a time for things not going his way. That's how the books describe mental abuse, path.


yes... We would be great for 5-6 months. He is loving, caring, spends time with me,great sex,great gifts,using pet names.. In short the perfect husband.then something would come up. Like i would argue when he was on the phone for 1 hour during our together time, he once wanted a bed moved and we had argued, this time me asking his mom to come later etc... Not big issues like cheating. Then he would be angry with me, be silent, say he doesnt love me, no sex, no affection.. I have always asked him to argue,then be angry but please make up in 2-3 days. But he keeps a list of all the past arguments in his mind, resents me for those, gets a little more distant every time we argue, he does not forgive/forget... I think it is a way of protecting himself from getting hurt. He has done it from childhood. And i think it is connected to bipolar... He does not show emotions,the wall is there. Now i am outside the wall. So now its 'u hurt me by doing X Y and Z,so i dont want you'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Exactly what we've been telling you, path. The ONLY times you got 'punished' (and yes, he punished you) was when you spoke up. When you had a voice. When you acted as though you believed you were an equal. You're only married 4 years. It's easy to have lots of 'good' time in 4 years, before the bloom wears off the rose. You can bet that the next 4 years would have become 5 months of punishment, 2 months of greatness to 'make up for' the punishment, and then another 5 months of punishment. It's how controlling people work. It works to keep you on your toes, walking on eggshells. It works to teach you to shut up, not have a voice, and become his slave/cook/maid/hooker. Just the way he expected it.

And now, now that you 'humiliated' him in front of his mother, he felt that he had to take a stand and put you back in your place where you belong - by telling you that he would screw whoever he wants, see whoever he wants, go wherever he wants, and make you move to wherever he wants - IF you wanted to GET TO stay married to him. After 4 years, he realized you weren't going to be the doormat he assumed all women are, and he put his foot down. Because you didn't simply immediately capitulate and give him what he wants and agree to everything he demanded, he moved on to the next stage, the next step in cementing his control over you. His one last attempt to say 'these are the rules and if you don't follow them, you lose ME.'

Luckily for you, you're too smart, educated, and worldly to fall for that bullhockey. Luckily for you, you're going to divorce, consider this a great learning experience, and go on to choose a better partner down the road (hopefully after a lot of therapy to discover why you allowed yourself to be punished in the first place), and THEN live the great amazing life you deserve.

btw, did you ever get the Why Does He Do That? book and read it? I can't remember.


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## lookinforhelpandhope

OP, I haven't read the entire thread but just want to give my perspective on one aspect.

I had a family member of my ex, who displayed similar behavious to your H, come live with us. I ended up in a situation where I was not only battling against my ex but his family member 100% backed him up, whether he was right or wrong, validating (in his head) that his wrongful bahaviour was perfectly justified and I was the root of the issue, not matter what the perceived issue.

Add to that the fact that he could distract himself with the other family member and block me out for increasingly long periods of time. It ended up like being an outcast in my own home.

In my case he was booted out and the family member sent back to where they had come from.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> (hopefully after a lot of therapy to discover why you allowed yourself to be punished in the first place), and THEN live the great amazing life you deserve.
> 
> btw, did you ever get the Why Does He Do That? book and read it? I can't remember.


All the times he did the punishment, I thought it is related to bipolar, childhood trauma and he does not know how to fight fair and that he will learn to. then i realized he won't learn on his own. that's why i wanted him in the counseling.. 

i got the book, i cant start reading till mid of September.. i am going to start after the exam.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> All the times he did the punishment, I thought it is related to bipolar, childhood trauma and he does not know how to fight fair and that he will learn to.


You'll learn in the book that abusive/controllling men PICK women who are likely to make excuses for their horrible behavior. Yes, they can really pick them. I hope you'll at least start reading a couple paragraphs a day, to help get you through this period.


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## finding-a-path

when he came with uncle, my husband said about me 'she talks till i agree to what she likes.so i agree' meaning, at 1st he agreed to not drink etc out of love,but then later, he wanted to do things,he just agreed not to do to get away from having to argue. I always thought we discussed about any matter,i gave him pros and cons, then he agreed because he understood what doing or not doing this certain thing would result in.. But it seems he did not even listen to the pros and cons and just thought 'ok i will agree.or else she will keep talking' and then resented me thinking she is controlling me. If he had any points that would make me think 'ah doing this certain thing is good' i dont know why he did not speak about that.. The issues he said he agreed to just to avoid being nagged (he thinks i am nagging even when i am just talking about pros and cons of any issue) might be the tattoo, having an earring, going abroad to work. He didnt tell me these specific things.but i think these are what he wanted and gave up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

so when he said the above,his uncle said 'son that won't work.you have to tell her what you want and talk about it till you get to a solution you both like' and husband was shaking his head up and down... Then husband said, 'she does not like to interact with my friends' total LIE. up to the day he left,he praised me saying it is a good thing that i dont have any connections with his friends or their wives. Because those wives suspected their husbands and called friends and created big drama. I think he is just creating reasons because he knows that requesting not to watch a video or requesting his mother to come after exam is not enough reason to leave his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

he always says 'once i get fed up with anything i dont want it ever again' about himself. Meaning,he could not get a father's love,mother's love then he thought 'i dont want it' and closed off. And that is what he did to me too. He said in 2012 when he asked me to bring a household item to him and i lifted it,got it to him but later asked 'arent you ashamed to tell me to lift and carry it' (i admit i am wrong.have said sorry more than 10 times) he thought 'i do so many things for her.whats the use of doing all that when she cant do this for me' and that moment he got distant from me. And he still remembers this after 2 years. I think i disrespected him by asking that and he couldnt get over it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

When you read His Needs Her Needs, you'll see that a man's typically top 3 needs are usually Respect/Admiration, Sex, and Domestic Support. A healthy man can handle you questioning his actions (i.e., respect); one with an unhealthy FOO can't - he's forever waiting for you to call him out on being un-admirable.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> When you read His Needs Her Needs, you'll see that a man's typically top 3 needs are usually Respect/Admiration, Sex, and Domestic Support. A healthy man can handle you questioning his actions (i.e., respect); one with an unhealthy FOO can't - he's forever waiting for you to call him out on being un-admirable.


yes.i did read it... i see what you mean..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i wonder if there is any book which will help him understand his issues..? The FOO issues,abuse, emotional wall,resentment...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> i wonder if there is any book which will help him understand his issues..? The FOO issues,abuse, emotional wall,resentment...


That's his problem now. He needs serious therapy. But you need to be working on your life now.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i wonder if there is any book which will help him understand his issues..? The FOO issues,abuse, emotional wall,resentment...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How many times will we have to say this to you?

HE cannot see the need to change - unless he is FORCED to.

He will not be FORCED to until he LOSES YOU.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> How many times will we have to say this to you?
> 
> HE cannot see the need to change - unless he is FORCED to.
> 
> He will not be FORCED to until he LOSES YOU.


i dont think losing me would make him see the need to change.i think he will find someone else who would be willing to agree to the rules. Anyway,if there are any books,please do tell me. Going to wrap those up and give him the day we divorce.. I really want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> i dont think losing me would make him see the need to change.i think he will find someone else who would be willing to agree to the rules. Anyway,if there are any books,please do tell me. Going to wrap those up and give him the day we divorce.. I really want to.


If you give him books like that, you know that it will just cause anger, don't you? He won't read them. In his mind it will just reinforce that he was right to leave you.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> If you give him books like that, you know that it will just cause anger, don't you? He won't read them. In his mind it will just reinforce that he was right to leave you.


i am not afraid of his anger anymore.. Even if he wont read them now,he will later. Even if it is after 10 years. I think that is the best i could do for him. One last gift.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> i am not afraid of his anger anymore.. Even if he wont read them now,he will later. Even if it is after 10 years. I think that is the best i could do for him. One last gift.


I doubt that he will ever read them. He has to admit that he has a problem first. The chance of this happening are slim to none. This is especially true since his mother has got hold on him now.

My concern about his is you putting thought and effort into him... even the little bit of getting some books. Every time you do something that focuses on him, you are making it harder for you to separate and move on with your life. A divorce will take time. So wait until the time is closer, if you still feel like doing it then... you can decide.


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## Blossom Leigh

The only book both of you need at this point is Codependency No More.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> I doubt that he will ever read them. He has to admit that he has a problem first. The chance of this happening are slim to none. This is especially true since his mother has got hold on him now.
> 
> My concern about his is you putting thought and effort into him... even the little bit of getting some books. Every time you do something that focuses on him, you are making it harder for you to separate and move on with your life. A divorce will take time. So wait until the time is closer, if you still feel like doing it then... you can decide.


thank you.i guess that is what i have been doing for so long. Putting thought and effort in to him.. Now it is time to focus on me.. Which i find hard to do because 10 times a day i keep thinking i wish he didnt do this to me,i wish he understood that i only requested his mother to visit later etc. I think it will go away as time passes..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> The only book both of you need at this point is Codependency No More.


hmm.i think i was codependent. Do you think he was codependent?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

so.. His uncle called. He said that my husband said they will give me a list of conditions at the end of the 2 months and if i agree he will stay married to me.so 1st it was the list(which i posted here) then he said he wants divorce. Now its back to the list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

must say that the uncle is the only person trying to solve this.. At least he called husband and asked what his plan is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

before we got married,husband's aunt forced me to rent near their relatives.. I heard she controlled my brother in law's salary, she visited them often, and i understood that she wanted me to tell her and take permission before going anywhere etc. Controlling,telling me what to do, demanding that i answer her calls while i was working..so i said no we wont rent where she wants.then this house was built.from those days she is angry with me.she used to send me threats via email. 6-7 pages long. They said things like 'you must rent where i want.otherwise i will stop the wedding' because my husband supported living in our own house i did not think of this as a big issue. Then, around march 2014, husbands mother was living with his brother and he got a job somewhere far away. Mother has asked him to come live with us. He did not even talked with me and he had told her that he will look for a rented room for her. Then she moved in with the aunt.so aunt must have asked why are you not going to ur son. Then mother said coming for a month,i said come after exam.and aunt must have said 'see this is why i told u to rent.if u rented,u could have moved in your mother' so husband now thinks that way too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

You are spinning and getting no where... you need to find your forward motion...


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## 3Xnocharm

finding-a-path said:


> so.. His uncle called. He said that my husband said they will give me a list of conditions at the end of the 2 months and if i agree he will stay married to me.so 1st it was the list(which i posted here) then he said he wants divorce. Now its back to the list.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell them all to get fvcked.


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## turnera

path, I don't know what to say to you any more. If you can't see, or admit, that the relationship you had was abusive and flawed and damaging and that you can get better, no one will be able to help you. If you read WDHDT, you would see that abusers can be literally WONDERFUL during the 'good times' and that that is what keeps the abuse victim staying around, trying to ignore the bad times, waiting for the good times to come back. The problem is that the longer you're married, the smaller the good times become and the bigger the bad times become. You're now past the honeymoon stage and he now believes you'll never leave him so he can show his true self. He can now show you what he expects from you, in order for you to get his 'good times.' And he IS showing you what he expects - he even has a freakin' list of demands. How much more abusive does this have to get, path?

You need more therapy. Can you go more often?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, I don't know what to say to you any more. If you can't see, or admit, that the relationship you had was abusive and flawed and damaging i know this relationship was/is abusive,flawed and damaging. and that you can get better, no one will be able to help you. If you read WDHDT, you would see that abusers can be literally WONDERFUL during the 'good times' and that that is what keeps the abuse victim staying around, trying to ignore the bad times, waiting for the good times to come back. The problem is that the longer you're married, the smaller the good times become and the bigger the bad times become. You're now past the honeymoon stage and he now believes you'll never leave him so he can show his true self. He can now show you what he expects from you, in order for you to get his 'good times.' And he IS showing you what he expects - he even has a freakin' list of demands. How much more abusive does this have to get, path?
> 
> You need more therapy. Can you go more often?


yes. i will try going more often


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## Blossom Leigh

Study and stop spinning...

There isn't a reason why other than his family conditioned him that way. End of story... 

He will ONLY change if HE chooses too, nothing you can do for that. End of story....

Your future is your choice... End of story....

Anytime you catch yourself saying "Can I get him to see, change, etc" know that you put yourself into spin again and you need to put a huge rubber band around your wrist and pop it real hard when you catch yourself doing it again until you break that bad habit. Doing that will keep you stuck for a long time regardless of you staying married or not.

Get the book I mentioned and you will see what I'm talking about. 

It doesn't matter if he is codependent... this is about "what are YOU going to do."


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## Miss Taken

Path, have you heard anything about the 180 on here? I really think you need to do it. You need to put yourself in a position of strength, raise your self-esteem and redefine your new life without your husband.

Stop obsessing about him, his FOO issues etc. Start focusing only on yourself and what you can do to heal and feel better. Don't waste a second more of thought or money trying to get your husband to see the light. I promise, any effort you make in trying to help him will only be met with resistance. You need to just let him go. 

I am speaking a little from experience here. When my partner cheated and we separated, I tried to help him see the light and sent him emails with resources for help and book suggestions. It was wasted energy on my part. It was only when I gave up on him, stopped focusing on him and genuinely cared and worked on myself that my spouse started to wake up and care. 

Nothing you do or say will change your H. You can't control what he does but you can control what you do and how you react to the things he does. Your husband does need help but he has to want it for himself. You can't make him want it.


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## finding-a-path

Miss Taken said:


> Path, have you heard anything about the 180 on here? I really think you need to do it. You need to put yourself in a position of strength, raise your self-esteem and redefine your new life without your husband.
> 
> Stop obsessing about him, his FOO issues etc. Start focusing only on yourself and what you can do to heal and feel better. Don't waste a second more of thought or money trying to get your husband to see the light. I promise, any effort you make in trying to help him will only be met with resistance. You need to just let him go.
> 
> I am speaking a little from experience here. When my partner cheated and we separated, I tried to help him see the light and sent him emails with resources for help and book suggestions. It was wasted energy on my part. It was only when I gave up on him, stopped focusing on him and genuinely cared and worked on myself that my spouse started to wake up and care.
> 
> Nothing you do or say will change your H. You can't control what he does but you can control what you do and how you react to the things he does. Your husband does need help but he has to want it for himself. You can't make him want it.


yes.. i read about the 180... i have not contacted him since Sep 1st... 

i went to see a gem and jewelry show today..months ago he told me we will go. but when the date came he is not even with me.. but, i enjoyed. then went to get my eyebrows done. so i guess i focused on myself today.. 


i guess i am in shock because even though everyone told me not to, i cant stop thinking about how he could give me flowers and a nicely written card in which he said "let's have a great future" on Aug 13th morning and fight about the video on the eve of the same day and leave and not text or call me... 


sorry...


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## Blossom Leigh

Cause he's a brat...


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Cause he's a brat...


hmm.. that's a simple explanation. but i can't help thinking it is the bipolar.. 

i think when i objected to earring, tattoo and him going abroad to work, he did not understand my reasons but just said ok to avoid arguments and resented me. if he told me so, i would have discussed with him without arguing. i thought he understood reasons and said ok.so i forgot those topics. 

then, when mother issue came up, she said "ah she told me not to come because it is her house" and my husband believed it and thought this is another way i control him. he could not see that i just wanted to study. his uncle also said that it is true that his mother watches TV all day..but husband could not see my point.. like before, he has agreed to tell mother to come after exam to avoid a problem.. i wish he spoke up..


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## Blossom Leigh

Brats lack emotional maturity

You keep saying you dont understand why he isnt doing things emotionally mature persons do.

I do not believe he is bipolar.

I see brat ( an enabled emotionally immature person)


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Brats lack emotional maturity
> 
> You keep saying you dont understand why he isnt doing things emotionally mature persons do.
> 
> I do not believe he is bipolar.
> 
> I see brat ( an enabled emotionally immature person)


he has been checked by a psychiatrist...


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## Blossom Leigh

And he was diagnosed bipolar?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> And he was diagnosed bipolar?


yes. Got treated for around 1 year.and then the doctor said he does not need meds anymore. This was the top doctor in the country.but now,the therapist said it is a surprise that the doc said to stop meds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> yes. Got treated for around 1 year.and then the doctor said he does not need meds anymore. This was the top doctor in the country.but now,the therapist said it is a surprise that the doc said to stop meds.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmmm who told you that info, that he didnt need meds anymore, the doctor or your husband?


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> yes. Got treated for around 1 year.and then the doctor said he does not need meds anymore. This was the top doctor in the country.but now,the therapist said it is a surprise that the doc said to stop meds.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmmm who told you that info, that he didnt need meds anymore, the doctor or your husband?

And how was his behavior different on meds vs off meds?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Hmmm who told you that info, that he didnt need meds anymore, the doctor or your husband?
> 
> And how was his behavior different on meds vs off meds?


the doc told us that he didnt needs meds anymore.doc asked H how he was feeling,can he control anger now etc and then decided no meds were needed. 
Before meds, for little things,he would tell me 'i am going to kill that person' 'my PC is broke,i feel like killing myself' etc. He would use verbal abuse. That is how i noticed something is wrong with him. Then when on meds,he was super nice. Not angry for little things. Then after he got off meds,he was doing ok.i noticed moments he was angry.but not as much as before and the verbal abuse was gone. Now, being all loving and nice for a week and leaving home because of a video and mother's issue and not texting or calling,behaving like i dont exist makes me suspect if it is the bipolar which is making him act like that. I mean,how can someone switch love on and off like that..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Have you asked him to return to his meds?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Have you asked him to return to his meds?


no.i suspected about the bipolar returning to surface only after he left home.and i think he will not return to meds.he hated side effects and believed that meds didnt help him even though the change was visible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> no.i suspected about the bipolar returning to surface only after he left home.and i think he will not return to meds.he hated side effects and believed that meds didnt help him even though the change was visible.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he considers any reconcilliation, I would have that conversation to be fair.

If he isnt coming home, move on.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> If he considers any reconciliation, I would have that conversation to be fair.
> 
> If he isnt coming home, move on.


i think he isn't coming home. but they could be writing a list as uncle said.. today i was thinking about how we went to movies,shopping etc. i guess there is no shortcut and i must go through all these emotions to mourn the loss of the marriage.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> i think he isn't coming home. but they could be writing a list as uncle said.. today i was thinking about how we went to movies,shopping etc. i guess there is no shortcut and i must go through all these emotions to mourn the loss of the marriage.



100% correct


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## finding-a-path

I think he is keeping me guessing. "is he coming? is he not?" i do not know why he is doing it.

and his strange turn around is so surprising that even my mother is asking how can he just be without contacting me? she knows he used to call and text everyday.

he told his uncle that i do not trust him.
reasons for telling that are

1)i wanted to know his passwords of facebook,email and i wanted access to his phone.he told me the passwords.we have always been sharing passwords.

my reason for sharing passwords - if he does not have anything to hide,he shall be able to share passwords.there shall not be any secrets between us.i gave him my password and he was free to see my profiles anytime..i believe in full transparency and it helps to keep temptations away.(say someone send you a message and you wanted to reply.but you know your spouse will see it and you don't want to fight so you won't send a reply.where else if the spouse didn't know the password, you would think he/she will not see this.one message is no harm.and that could lead to more.prevention is better than cure) 
and he had the habit of chatting with females,calling them baby,sweetie etc in the past. so having access means i don't just have to assume that he is not doing it now, i can see that he is not doing it.yes, i trusted he will not do it again (if i didn't, i wouldn't have got married) but, instead of blind trust, i like to make informed choice in trusting.


2) i sometimes told him "please don't talk with that person" (regarding a loose woman at work who likes bed hopping with anyone with a pulse) so , he saw that as me not trusting him. but what i wanted was a loving assurance. "oh no.don't worry. i won't.i know how she is" 


so, these two things made him think that i don't trust him. truth is i trusted him more than i trusted myself. i always thought "he will never do anything to hurt me" that was until June 7th, when he lied to me and went to drink with friends.. 



now about the issue of controlling.he wanted the following things to which i objected.

1) an earring
2) a tattoo
3) to go abroad to work
4) to drink (this he only told me AFTER he lied and went to drink with friends)

so.. when i objected, he had said ok just to avoid an argument. not because he understood the reasons for the objections.. and he had been resenting me.

add me arguing about the video and me requesting his mother to come after exam (which he told his mother,but he has only agreed to avoid arguments and has been resenting me about) and there are the reasons he wanted a divorce..


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## finding-a-path

and him being a person who keeps grudges,never forgets and forgives did not help our marriage too.

he says once he gets disinterested in anything he does not want that thing ever again. well, the perfect woman does not exist and he will find a fault in everyone sooner and later and that fault will make him not interested anymore. that way he will not be able to live with anyone!! 

about me, it was the fight which happened in 2012.he said when i asked why he told me to lift that thing, he thought "i do so much for her,if she can't do this for me why shall i do the things she likes" and that was it. from that moment he distanced himself from me.


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## turnera

Basically, you stopped being fun and started acting like a wife.

He's telling you who he is, path. He wants to be single and carefree yet still have the benefits of marriage (i.e. a mother replacement). If you're not willing to let him be free and single while still married, well, you won't have a marriage. 

But I'm here to tell you, if you were to give in to his demands, you'd probably end up suicidal in 5 years.


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## Blossom Leigh

I'm tellin' ya... I don't care how bi polar he is... this boy is a brat too. My best recommendation is to study those things that help you help yourself instead of focusing on him so much. When you learn to stop accepting the unacceptable, your life will smooth out.


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## tripad

turnera said:


> How many times will we have to say this to you?
> 
> HE cannot see the need to change - unless he is FORCED to.
> 
> He will not be FORCED to until he LOSES YOU.


Dont put too much hope in that .

He may still not see it when he loses you as he has his mum and others behind him telling him you r not gd .

And even if he realises , wont you be better off finding another man who will treat you better . Why would you want to fall into the same black hole second time ?:scratchhead:

I m speaking from experience .


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## Blossom Leigh

tripad said:


> Dont put too much hope in that .
> 
> He may still not see it when he loses you as he has his mum and others behind him telling him you r not gd .
> 
> And even if he realises , wont you be better off finding another man who will treat you better . Why would you want to fall into the same black hole second time ?:scratchhead:
> 
> I m speaking from experience .


I can echo that sentiment...

but that is also when you know its time to move on and totally let go as well...

so when you enter that arena.. you have to be doing it for you, not him.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Basically, you stopped being fun and started acting like a wife.i have always been like that.i always had firm boundaries,total honesty etc. guess he got fed up with it
> 
> He's telling you who he is, path. He wants to be single and carefree i feel that way too.he wants to go out to drink only to return at 4am!! which wife would be happy with that.specially when he works 4-5 nights a weekyet still have the benefits of marriage (i.e. a mother replacement). If you're not willing to let him be free and single while still married, well, you won't have a marriage.
> 
> But I'm here to tell you, if you were to give in to his demands, you'd probably end up suicidal in 5 years.


the demands list is being re-written i guess.don't know what will be there!


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## tripad

turnera said:


> So in 4 years, you'd have 5 months of bliss and then 2 months of torture, then 5 months of bliss, and 2 months of punishment...basically twice a year you were being punished a month or two at a time for things not going his way. That's how the books describe mental abuse, path.


No wrong there 

from my experience , the good times gets shorter , the bad times gets longer and more often , when I dont play it the way my H wants . And his wants gets more .

Path , leave .

Your H sounds like mine

I sound like you a year back .

You will be glad when you find yourself again .

I'm not totally recovered but I am glad I took the painful step to leave . Bcoz I wont agree to his terms anymore .


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## finding-a-path

i am made out to be this horrible person by his aunt.she wanted us to rent. i said no,we have our own house,so why rent? (she wanted to keep us close to her so that she can control us) so from that day,she always said bad things about me like "path didn't respect her elders enough to listen to the elders" "she wants her own way" "she is not raised well" blah blah blah. just because i had the nerve to decide that i don't want to pay rent and i don't want my husband to waste his hard earned money on rent.lol. 

so when i requested the mom to come after exam, aunt must have said "i told you so. if he did not go to wife's house, if they rented like I wanted them to, this would not have happened,sister,you could have been with your son anytime you want." 

so i am sure they must be telling the same to my husband now and he fell in to the trap... there is no way he will realize the truth while being there with them  he will be fed that bull**** 24/7


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> No wrong there
> 
> from my experience , the good times gets shorter , the bad times gets longer and more often , when I dont play it the way my H wants . And his wants gets more .
> 
> Path , leave .
> 
> Your H sounds like mine
> 
> I sound like you a year back .
> 
> You will be glad when you find yourself again .
> 
> I'm not totally recovered but I am glad I took the painful step to leave . Bcoz I wont agree to his terms anymore .



you left.. congrats.. is there any thread describing your journey?


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## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> the demands list is being re-written i guess.don't know what will be there!


The day you cant tell him to shuff the demand list up his a** is the day you can start to recover .

I always try to "ëducate" my H . Never work .

Finally , I dont care and told him the bills are piling and I am not paying . He can go into debt for his parents and sisters , I dont care . 

I felt free , though sad . But it gets better with time . It's like walking out from a prison . one step at a time , further and further from the "prison" .


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## tripad

Blossom Leigh said:


> I'm tellin' ya... I don't care how bi polar he is... this boy is a brat too. My best recommendation is to study those things that help you help yourself instead of focusing on him so much. When you learn to stop accepting the unacceptable, your life will smooth out.


wonder if my H is bipolar too ?

my counsellor did say he may hav personality disorder , his whole family in fact . They spend money they dont have . They dont work .

While I work my A** off and still manage my kids . Thank God my kids are great kids . Even this single dad trying to get to know me commented my kids are coping well n fine and I am a great mum !


----------



## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> you left.. congrats.. is there any thread describing your journey?


No i didnt post as detailed

I had a couple of friends I talked to 

i post short extracts .

I wanted to process my own thoughts .

maybe I can write you my story and you might feel better that yours is better 

then maybe you might leave faster so you will never land up as bad as mine .

My only regret is not leaving earlier . thinking he will change


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## Blossom Leigh

Then make the decision to not be held hostage to their abuse. He is choosing to be held hostage to it and is not asking you to be held hostage to it. You dont' have to make his same choice. And I would tell him, 

H, I will not accept your conditions to be held hostage to their abuse.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

tripad said:


> The day you cant tell him to shuff the demand list up his a** is the day you can start to recover .



You GO Girl!


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i am made out to be this horrible person by his aunt.she wanted us to rent. i said no,we have our own house,so why rent? (she wanted to keep us close to her so that she can control us) so from that day,she always said bad things about me


My dad's wife hated my husband because he was the only one who would stand up to her. So much so that she turned him into Children's Protective Services as an 'abusive father.' TWICE. They threw it out both times, but the damage was done; it literally ruined our lives, the one life I had wanted to live anyway. And my dad supported her and denied what she did. So I had to cut both of them out of our lives.

Sometimes you just have to make hard choices in life, path. You didn't get the helpful, loving in-laws that you should have. And no matter what you say, HE is PART of that family. 

So now it's time to cut them out of your life and move on. And find a healthier man who will treat you with respect and as an equal. They _are _out there.


----------



## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> No i didnt post as detailed
> 
> I had a couple of friends I talked to
> 
> i post short extracts .
> 
> I wanted to process my own thoughts .
> 
> maybe I can write you my story and you might feel better that yours is better
> 
> then maybe you might leave faster so you will never land up as bad as mine .
> 
> My only regret is not leaving earlier . thinking he will change



if you can, please write a summery for me.. thank you..


----------



## tripad

turnera said:


> My dad's wife hated my husband because he was the only one who would stand up to her. So much so that she turned him into Children's Protective Services as an 'abusive father.' TWICE. They threw it out both times, but the damage was done; it literally ruined our lives, the one life I had wanted to live anyway. And my dad supported her and denied what she did. So I had to cut both of them out of our lives.
> 
> Sometimes you just have to make hard choices in life, path. You didn't get the helpful, loving in-laws that you should have. And no matter what you say, HE is PART of that family.
> 
> So now it's time to cut them out of your life and move on. And find a healthier man who will treat you with respect and as an equal. They _are _out there.


yep

It is a difficult choice but that's life .

Path , don't bother what "who and who of his relative say what and what "

I used to try to educate my H and ask why this why that what r they thinking why they think that way n maybe I can correct their thinking

Then I realize 

You cant talk sense to senseless people .

Your don't owe them an explanation.

They don't feed you . They don't pay your salary . You don't need to justify yourself .

You cant understand how a crazy and irrational person think .

Gosh !!!! How the sky clear up after that for me !!! A light bulb went up in my head !!!! My pounding headache gone , don't need to think anymore !!!! The answer is I'LL NEVER GET AN ANSWER !!!!! N I'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND !!!!! I DONT NEED TO UNDERSTAND ANYMORE !!!!!:toast: hOORAY !!!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I too made the choice to not be held hostage to abuse at the hands of my mother. At 39 I put her on notice that my engagement with her was now changing and she cut HERSELF out of my life. I wasn't going to take her abuse in silence anymore and she wasn't on board with that. 

Therefore one of my favorite quotes is

The day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.

Thus my online name Blossom Leigh....

I chose to break the silence on abuse and from that Blossomed into a very strong woman.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

tripad said:


> yep
> 
> It is a difficult choice but that's life .
> 
> Path , don't bother what "who and who of his relative say what and what "
> 
> I used to try to educate my H and ask why this why that what r they thinking why they think that way n maybe I can correct their thinking
> 
> Then I realize
> 
> You cant talk sense to senseless people .
> 
> Your don't owe them an explanation.
> 
> They don't feed you . They don't pay your salary . You don't need to justify yourself .
> 
> You cant understand how a crazy and irrational person think .
> 
> Gosh !!!! How the sky clear up after that for me !!! A light bulb went up in my head !!!! My pounding headache gone , don't need to think anymore !!!! The answer is I'LL NEVER GET AN ANSWER !!!!! N I'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND !!!!! I DONT NEED TO UNDERSTAND ANYMORE !!!!!:toast: hOORAY !!!


Yep this was exactly what happened with me, when I stopped trying to make rational the irrational.. I was FREE!


----------



## tripad

Blossom Leigh said:


> The day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
> 
> Thus my online name Blossom Leigh....
> 
> I chose to break the silence on abuse and from that Blossomed into a very strong woman.


Yep,

I was embarrassed that my H was abusing me financially and physically and emotionally . His whole family too . Though I am vocal and tried to fight for my rights , I kept bailing my H's debts he incurred for his parents and sisters - to spend on things beyond them - NOT medical !

Yup ! Blossom , to break the silence was liberating !!!! It was freedom from emotional bondage !!!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

:toast:

:yay:


----------



## finding-a-path

trying to study today. No matter how hard it is.. The man does not love me,he likes keeping me on toes so im just going to think 'whatever' and study. He will have to decide something sooner or later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

I think that the uncle is making up a new list because he wants the two of you to stay together.

Your husband is playing the same game with is uncle as your husband played with you... just going along with what the uncle wants because he's not a strong person.. I suspect that your husband is really not wanting to do what the uncle is making him do... work on the list.

So now you are going to just wait for this list? Why does it take 2 months to write up a list?

Right now just study and pass your exams. They you can deal with this nonsense.


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> I think that the uncle is making up a new list because he wants the two of you to stay together.
> 
> Your husband is playing the same game with is uncle as your husband played with you... just going along with what the uncle wants because he's not a strong person.. I suspect that your husband is really not wanting to do what the uncle is making him do... work on the list.
> 
> So now you are going to just wait for this list? Why does it take 2 months to write up a list?
> 
> Right now just study and pass your exams. They you can deal with this nonsense.


Uncle is not writing a list. Uncle informed me that husband said husband is writing a list..(which i suspect the aunt will be writing,not husband)
I can't understand why he needs to wait till Oct 20th to give the list.but,i think he maybe wanting to have time apart to decide what he wants because he is not sure.
The clear message i am getting is that i controlled him by objecting to tattoo,earring,working abroad, drinking out till 4am. So he left. Any wife would object to drinking till 4am every week unless the wife is out in clubs drinking too. His 'perfect' wife does not exist. Any two people have disagreements.he could have talked till we both agree to a solution without just saying ok and resenting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i think his whole life,his aunt has controlled him and now he is afraid that i would be like her. He is projecting her qualities to me. When we went to therapy,he said 'wife sends me news stories about famous people divorcing.so i feel she does not trust me' turned out,i did not send anything like that but his aunt did ! Even when i just say 'hmm i dont like the tattoo.please dont get it' he sees that as controlling.i see that as me expressing what i like and dislike.I did not cry,did not say 'if you get a tattoo i will do x y or z' i just requested.so how is that controlling? He could have just talked more about it without saying ok. About his mother's visit too,i requested him to request her to come later. He said ok.then resents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Tatoo is controlling since its his body, but asking MIL to delay is not.


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## Blossom Leigh

You probably are controlling to a degree, everyone is. Just take a healthy look at yourself and adjust. 

The projecting is probably partially true and partially untrue. You probably have a degree of controlling nature of the aunt, but his triggers blow it out of proportion and or he cant tell controlling from not and calls even healthy accountability, controlling.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Tatoo is controlling since its his body, but asking MIL to delay is not.


i just made my dislike known.. i did not cry did not threaten.. did not scream...


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> he cant tell controlling from not and calls even healthy accountability, controlling.



i think that is true


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> i just made my dislike known.. i did not cry did not threaten.. did not scream...


Control doesn't always have to be loud to be wrong

You can express a preference, but ultimately the choice is his.

There are certain things that fall into control and not control categories and the book Boundaries by Townsend explains where those lines are drawn and would be a big help in that area


----------



## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> Uncle is not writing a list. Uncle informed me that husband said husband is writing a list..(which i suspect the aunt will be writing,not husband)
> I can't understand why he needs to wait till Oct 20th to give the list.but,i think he maybe wanting to have time apart to decide what he wants because he is not sure.
> The clear message i am getting is that i controlled him by objecting to tattoo,earring,working abroad, drinking out till 4am. So he left. Any wife would object to drinking till 4am every week unless the wife is out in clubs drinking too. His 'perfect' wife does not exist. Any two people have disagreements.he could have talked till we both agree to a solution without just saying ok and resenting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think this whole U control me thg is BS .

Jus like my H . He has total freedom and it went out of hand . N I try to get him to be more of a father and he said I controlled him. When everyone else knows he has a lot of freedom . He jus wanted total freedom as a bachelor , but he wants food on the table and to be served and his wife n boys there when he has no friends to go out with !

In a marriage , there should be accountability n responsibilty . Otherwise , you can have your fun too with other men and need not account to him !

That' s the thing . I guess you are not like that . Just like I am not that . AND our H took us for granted . that they can play and that we wont play .


----------



## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> i think his whole life,his aunt has controlled him and now he is afraid that i would be like her. He is projecting her qualities to me. When we went to therapy,he said 'wife sends me news stories about famous people divorcing.so i feel she does not trust me' turned out,i did not send anything like that but his aunt did ! Even when i just say 'hmm i dont like the tattoo.please dont get it' he sees that as controlling.i see that as me expressing what i like and dislike.I did not cry,did not say 'if you get a tattoo i will do x y or z' i just requested.so how is that controlling? He could have just talked more about it without saying ok. About his mother's visit too,i requested him to request her to come later. He said ok.then resents.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Path , you are trying to justifying n explain for him .

I know . I did that too . Trying to see my H as a victim , trying to help , love him , save my family .

It is not helping you . It explains nothing . At the end of the story , my story , I realise that all my previous explanations and justifications , were all wrong . 

He chose to be that way , he chose his actions , he chose who to listen to , he chose the sides he wants to take , he chose who to gave up on and who to take advantage of . And you know you lost him .

Dont see it as your lost .

A better love will come by .

If not , love yourself more .

In my case , I am happier that I am not bullied anymore . My children are happier , in some ways .

Maybe a better love is already on the way . :smthumbup: 

I think this poor guy is waiting for my divorce to be over to make a move ! But I am taking my time to divorce and to heal . It is not easy . A day at a time .

So Path the world has not ended if your H is out . Maybe it's the beginning , not the end !!!


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Control doesn't always have to be loud to be wrong
> 
> You can express a preference, but ultimately the choice is his.
> 
> There are certain things that fall into control and not control categories and the book Boundaries by Townsend explains where those lines are drawn and would be a big help in that area


that will be a good addition to my books. So if i say 'i dont like the tattöo idea' that is ok,but if i say 'i dont like the tattoo idea,please dont do it' that is control..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

tripad said:


> Path , you are trying to justifying n explain for him .
> 
> I know . I did that too . Trying to see my H as a victim , trying to help , love him , save my family .
> 
> It is not helping you . It explains nothing . At the end of the story , my story , I realise that all my previous explanations and justifications , were all wrong .
> 
> He chose to be that way , he chose his actions , he chose who to listen to , he chose the sides he wants to take , he chose who to gave up on and who to take advantage of . And you know you lost him .
> 
> Dont see it as your lost .
> 
> A better love will come by .
> 
> If not , love yourself more .
> 
> In my case , I am happier that I am not bullied anymore . My children are happier , in some ways .
> 
> Maybe a better love is already on the way . :smthumbup:
> 
> I think this poor guy is waiting for my divorce to be over to make a move ! But I am taking my time to divorce and to heal . It is not easy . A day at a time .
> 
> So Path the world has not ended if your H is out . Maybe it's the beginning , not the end !!!


i am happy for you. And thank you for the kind words.. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> that will be a good addition to my books. So if i say 'i dont like the tattöo idea' that is ok,but if i say 'i dont like the tattoo idea,please dont do it' that is control..?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No. He can choose to get one, but he cant expect you to like it.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> No. He can choose to get one, but he cant expect you to like it.


Then, when he was talking about it,even though i dont like it i should not have said anything...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> Then, when he was talking about it,even though i dont like it i should not have said anything...?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You always have the right to express your preference.

If he expects you to be silent or shames you into silence THAT is controlling


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## turnera

And if you told HIM not to get it, that's controlling.


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## finding-a-path

ok.. so, i say " i don't like the idea" and leave it at that. 
i do not say "don't get it" is that correct?


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## turnera

Would you like it if your partner told YOU that you couldn't do this or that?

Of course not. So why would it be ok for you to tell HIM that he couldn't do this or that?


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> ok.. so, i say " i don't like the idea" and leave it at that.


You seem to place too much emphasis on you saying something and expecting your partner to then DO WHAT YOU WANT.

That isn't fair. Or mature. Or healthy. You don't own him. He doesn't own you. Look at how much it hurts for him to tell you that he expects YOU to move, accept him flirting, etc.

In a healthy marriage, both would be free to say what they feel. BUT, they would then back off and let the other person then make the decision they want. 

Unless, of course, we're talking about one of you spending $10,000 without the other's permission, or moving the family to another location without the other's ok, stuff like that. But on a personal level, you have to respect the other person's right to make their own decisions.

I think sometimes that you tell him what you want him to do in an effort to have THAT be what proves to you that he loves you. That's passive aggressive and SO unhealthy. When you tell him you don't like ABC (whatever it is), well, that's all you're supposed to do. Share your feelings. He's then free to consider your feelings and adjust his decision or not. Just as you are, when he tells you what HE wants.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> ok.. so, i say " i don't like the idea" and leave it at that.
> i do not say "don't get it" is that correct?


Its more of a state of mind, than exact words. 

I cannot own the wants, desires, emotions of my spouse or kids

I can offer wisdom, opinion, my personal preferences

Then it is hands off

UNLESS their decision impacts you in a way that is violating a your personhood... then opt for boundaries

for instance... my horse can pitch a fit at the end of my lead 22' lead line all he wants if he is not causing me immediate danger, but the second he pitches a fit within my personal bubble that is not ok. He is not allowed to behave that way that close to me for risk of injury. 

Injuries can be:
physical
emotional
financial
reputation
violating trust bonds

etc...

hope that helps....


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## finding-a-path

Boundaries in Marriage by John Townsend right?


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You seem to place too much emphasis on you saying something and expecting your partner to then DO WHAT YOU WANT.
> 
> That isn't fair. Or mature. Or healthy. You don't own him. He doesn't own you. Look at how much it hurts for him to tell you that he expects YOU to move, accept him flirting, etc.
> 
> In a healthy marriage, both would be free to say what they feel. BUT, they would then back off and let the other person then make the decision they want.
> 
> Unless, of course, we're talking about one of you spending $10,000 without the other's permission, or moving the family to another location without the other's ok, stuff like that. But on a personal level, you have to respect the other person's right to make their own decisions.
> 
> I think sometimes that you tell him what you want him to do in an effort to have THAT be what proves to you that he loves you. That's passive aggressive and SO unhealthy. When you tell him you don't like ABC (whatever it is), well, that's all you're supposed to do. Share your feelings. He's then free to consider your feelings and adjust his decision or not. Just as you are, when he tells you what HE wants.


i understand.saying "i don't like it " and leaving the topic at that is a good way to go. that way he can decide and he will not be controlled


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## finding-a-path

just one day left for the exam.. i studied well today. but thoughts of "how could he just leave and forget when i have loved him for 8 years" kept popping in to my head. every time, i thought "i ll think about it later.now i will study" and i do understand that i might never get the answer to that question.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Correct... I do not have the answer to my mothers abuse. I have a good guess and that is about it. The question of why plagued me for decades. I was FREE when I stopped caring why and started focusing on what to do about it.


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## finding-a-path

exam over   now, it is time to deal with this marriage.


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## turnera

Congratulations! How did you do?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Congratulations! How did you do?


thank you  the 2nd paper was ok.1st paper, the Multiple choice questions paper was hard.i hope i pass both  
and..., husband sent a watsapp message this morning wishing me luck..


----------



## finding-a-path

i can't help thinking that if husband's mother showed patience and compassion when the request was made to come after exam, today she would be here... but she wanted to do what she wants,when she wants... i treated her as a mother. called her "mother" 
but,very sadly she has never loved me like a daughter... if she did, she would have said "ok dear, you do the exam well,i will come after that" i am sure if it was her son's exam she would have said so...


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## turnera

How about that? Having to be away from you may have taught him some respect.


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> thank you  the 2nd paper was ok.1st paper, the Multiple choice questions paper was hard.i hope i pass both
> and..., husband sent a watsapp message this morning wishing me luck..


Interesting turn of events!


----------



## Froggi

finding-a-path said:


> he said that the doc said her cholesterol is double the normal amount. and she has a thinned artery.


So? Tell your DUH, that my mother worked, took care of her own home, and paid her way, ALL while suffering from heart issues, high blood pressure, cholesterol, asthma, and the big one....CANCER. Yes, she went to work with a damn IV. Her home was paid off before she died, and she did not mooch off of us kids.

Not that I would not have helped my mother, when she was ill, but SHE insisted upon being independent.


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> ok.. so, i say " i don't like the idea" and leave it at that.
> i do not say "don't get it" is that correct?


There are some things that I think a spouse has the right to at least voice their opinion about. Tattoos are one of those. They are a permanent modification to one's body.

Personally, I have a great dislike of tattoos. I would be disappointed if my spouse got one.. especially if it was visible when dressed for work or for more formal social events.

So if my husband were to get one, you bet I'd tell him that I thought it was a bad idea.

If I thought that it was a bad piece of art, I'd voice that too.

Now he's free to get it since it's his body. But I will also own my reaction to what he's done.

Where do we draw the line on what mutilations of one's spouse's body are acceptable? Tattoo usually hidden by clothing? how about tattoos on their face/neck that everyone can see? How about tattoos that turn the whites of their eyes a different color? Or what about the fancy scars people get or implants?


----------



## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> just one day left for the exam.. i studied well today. but thoughts of "how could he just leave and forget when i have loved him for 8 years" kept popping in to my head. every time, i thought "i ll think about it later.now i will study" and i do understand that i might never get the answer to that question.


it is tough 

but I think many here offering you advice been thro the same S***

we never got our answers

you will never 

the earlier you realise this , your mind will be free from burden and headache , and you can recover .

You alone decide on this . You take back control of your mind .

If you ponder on what why he do this and that - you lose control of your mind 

It may take time

jus keep telling yourself


----------



## tripad

Blossom Leigh said:


> Correct... I do not have the answer to my mothers abuse. I have a good guess and that is about it. The question of why plagued me for decades. I was FREE when I stopped caring why and started focusing on what to do about it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Sad but true , isn't it ?


----------



## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> i can't help thinking that if husband's mother showed patience and compassion when the request was made to come after exam, today she would be here... but she wanted to do what she wants,when she wants... i treated her as a mother. called her "mother"
> but,very sadly she has never loved me like a daughter... if she did, she would have said "ok dear, you do the exam well,i will come after that" i am sure if it was her son's exam she would have said so...


one thing I learn .

I will never be someone else's daughter no matter what you do for your MIL .

They will sacrifice you and want you dead for the sake of their own sons and daughters.

My MIL n FIL n SIL practically abuse my husband financially for frivalous spending and my husband let it happen n got into debt which I hav to pay off . N they still think they are entitled to my money . sadly , I m divorcing as my H still take their sides and he hits me bcoz he disagree with me that they r bad .


move on path .

i am .

i hope to find another better man . or not , i rather be alone than be with a bad H .


----------



## turnera

tripad said:


> They will sacrifice you and want you dead for the sake of their own sons and daughters.


Just so you guys understand, not all MILs are evil monsters. My MIL was a sweet lady who, while she liked things her way, never tried to override what I did in my house. And my own mother was the best MIL a husband could ask for.

What REALLY matters is getting to know them BEFORE you agree to marry their son. If you aren't treated like gold, or at least silver, before you marry, don't marry.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Just so you guys understand, not all MILs are evil monsters. My MIL was a sweet lady who, while she liked things her way, never tried to override what I did in my house. And my own mother was the best MIL a husband could ask for.
> 
> What REALLY matters is getting to know them BEFORE you agree to marry their son. If you aren't treated like gold, or at least silver, before you marry, don't marry.


what is sad is that i did get treated well by her before marriage and after marriage too. 8 years. Gone in a day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

my mother is ok with the divorce.dad, he says 'you selected him as husband.now you are saying he is not good.do whatever'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

his uncle has called my dad. And said 'they should go on rent.then they will solve their problems'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Yeah. Sure. And I have an island in Oklahoma to sell them. Notice how it's the men calling the men? Because (1) you have proven to be too 'uppity' of a woman to deal with (meaning you won't shut up and just do what the man tells you to do) and (2) these neanderthal men believe it's their RIGHT to tell women what to do.

You're better off without all of them.


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> There are some things that I think a spouse has the right to at least voice their opinion about. Tattoos are one of those. They are a permanent modification to one's body.
> 
> Personally, I have a great dislike of tattoos. I would be disappointed if my spouse got one.. especially if it was visible when dressed for work or for more formal social events.
> 
> So if my husband were to get one, you bet I'd tell him that I thought it was a bad idea.
> 
> If I thought that it was a bad piece of art, I'd voice that too.
> 
> Now he's free to get it since it's his body. But I will also own my reaction to what he's done.
> 
> Where do we draw the line on what mutilations of one's spouse's body are acceptable? Tattoo usually hidden by clothing? how about tattoos on their face/neck that everyone can see? How about tattoos that turn the whites of their eyes a different color? Or what about the fancy scars people get or implants?


if the tattoo was something simple which will be hidden by clothing, a musical symbol or something tasteful, i would have been ok. but he wanted a tattoo of a skull. that would have decreased my sexual attraction to him. i would have been sad and disappointed.the fact is i am the one who has to see it every night and how would i cuddle feeling like there is a skull in between us. i don't know if i am making sense..


----------



## finding-a-path

Elegirl,turnera,Blossom Leigh and tripad (and anyone else who would see this) can you please reply to this post below..

so... i always wanted a man who

1) did not add women except family on facebook
2)did not chat with women except family on facebook or any other site
3)did not "like" or comment on pics of random women (a celebrity is ok as long as he is not commenting about how sexy she is etc)

i have read many real life stories of how two people start to chat, then they ask what food you like, what movies you like,say "take care" to each other, then exchange pics, comment about the pics, exchange phone numbers and it becomes an emotional affair.that is why i don't want my man to chat, add unknown females etc.

it is not because i don't trust him. but because i believe prevention is better than cure.when he goes out, i say "take care" that is not because i think he will cross the road carelessly and get himself hurt.i say it because i think about protecting my husband.likewise, i say don't chat because of the temptations it brings and because i don't like to share my man (him having an emotional connection with someone,giving her his time,attention,care,saying she is nice blah blah IS sharing him with her)

so... i have told my husband these things before i even started the relationship.and he said he does not want to do these things. I TRUSTED HIS WORD. and now he says i am controlling him by not giving him freedom to add women... so... in any future relationship, how do i negotiate this issue and how do i be sure that that man will keep his word?

right now i feel i can't trust anyone,everyone will say oh no i don't chat blah blah and then later will change their word....


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Honey.. you find someone who understand how to protect his relationship with you. But, you also have to be realistic that you cannot 100% eliminate the risk in a relationship. The best you can do is stack the odds in your favor by selecting someone who values protecting you.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Honey.. you find someone who understand how to protect his relationship with you. But, you also have to be realistic that you cannot 100% eliminate the risk in a relationship. The best you can do is stack the odds in your favor by selecting someone who values protecting you.


i don't think there are any men who will stay without chatting with other women for a lifetime. this man did four years and now he wants to chat, look at other women's photos etc... i trusted him. so even if i trust someone else this will happen one day right...?


----------



## finding-a-path

and... what do you think about these 3 things. healthy boundaries for a marriage or am i controlling? 

1) not adding women except family on facebook
2)not chatting with women except family on facebook or any other site
3)not "like" or comment on pics of random women (a celebrity is ok as long as he is not commenting about how sexy she is etc)


----------



## tripad

finding-a-path said:


> what is sad is that i did get treated well by her before marriage and after marriage too. 8 years. Gone in a day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Mine too

really appeared to be in laws too holy too good

suddenly they "joined the dark force " when they want more n more money

n when I don't help with frivolous money request

the force got darker


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i don't think there are any men who will stay without chatting with other women for a lifetime.


path, I know four men (in all my 56 years) who are players, who still cheat after marriage. But I know probably 200 to 300 other men WHO DON'T. These men would never dream of talking to another woman. You just don't do that unless you're scum. Sorry, but you married scum.

Most men I know are wonderful, moral, totally devoted men who wouldn't DREAM of contacting another woman! They just don't! 

So please stop this stinkin' thinkin'. You are WRONG. Please trust us.


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> and... what do you think about these 3 things. healthy boundaries for a marriage or am i controlling?
> 
> 1) not adding women except family on facebook
> 2)not chatting with women except family on facebook or any other site
> 3)not "like" or comment on pics of random women (a celebrity is ok as long as he is not commenting about how sexy she is etc)


Ok, now you are veering into controlling territory. In a good marriage, you have respect for each other, yet you are not their property. In a good marriage, you have picked someone who has good morals, you've dated them for 2 or 3 years to get to know the real person, and if they suddenly start communicating (more than a 'hey, path and I say hi'), then you put your foot down. I have lots of guys in my connections. I don't do anything with them more than just say hi occasionally. My H meets women day in and day out. Some of them he/we have gotten to know better, some have even mentored him and helped him in his career. Am I going to act like a jealous teenager and demand he never speak to them again? Or am I going to treat him with respect, since he has never given me reason to suspect cheating (and yes, YOUR husband is cheating), and trust that these women are just friends?

Spend some time reading books about relationships. I think you have a lot to learn about what healthy ones look like. I know things may be different where you're from, but basic respect is due in all relationships.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Ok, now you are veering into controlling territory. In a good marriage, you have respect for each other, yet you are not their property. In a good marriage, you have picked someone who has good morals, you've dated them for 2 or 3 years to get to know the real person, and if they suddenly start communicating (more than a 'hey, path and I say hi'), then you put your foot down.yes.i put my foot down when he 1st did it,years ago and i set these boundaries... so are these boundaries controlling with regards to him? and... are these boundaries controlling if i request them from a new man? (no, i am not looking for a new man.just thinking about the future) I have lots of guys in my connections. I don't do anything with them more than just say hi occasionally. My H meets women day in and day out. Some of them he/we have gotten to know better, some have even mentored him and helped him in his career.this i don't have a problem about. and i also don't have a problem about my man adding work mates IF they were decent women.but this man works with some very trashy women who are posting photos on fb just to get attention, who sleeps with anyone etc.. Am I going to act like a jealous teenager and demand he never speak to them again? Or am I going to treat him with respect, since he has never given me reason to suspect cheating (and yes, YOUR husband is cheating), and trust that these women are just friends?
> 
> Spend some time reading books about relationships. I think you have a lot to learn about what healthy ones look like. I know things may be different where you're from, but basic respect is due in all relationships.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Ok, now you are veering into controlling territory. In a good marriage, you have respect for each other, yet you are not their property. In a good marriage, you have picked someone who has good morals, you've dated them for 2 or 3 years to get to know the real person,
> 
> today i am thinking, you can't "get to know the real person" even after a lifetime. i was with him 8 years and i thought he does not WANT to give attention and time to other women and he does not WANT the ego boost thinking ah this woman is chatting with me.
> 
> and if they suddenly start communicating (more than a 'hey, path and I say hi'), then you put your foot down. I have lots of guys in my connections. I don't do anything with them more than just say hi occasionally. My H meets women day in and day out. Some of them he/we have gotten to know better, some have even mentored him and helped him in his career. Am I going to act like a jealous teenager and demand he never speak to them again? Or am I going to treat him with respect, since he has never given me reason to suspect cheating (and yes, YOUR husband is cheating), and trust that these women are just friends?
> 
> Spend some time reading books about relationships. I think you have a lot to learn about what healthy ones look like. I know things may be different where you're from, but basic respect is due in all relationships.


----------



## turnera

> this man works with some very trashy women who are posting photos on fb just to get attention, who sleeps with anyone etc


How do you know? 

And was your H 100% transparent the first 8 years? Did he leave his phone lying around or did he keep it on him the whole time?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> How do you know?
> 
> And was your H 100% transparent the first 8 years? Did he leave his phone lying around or did he keep it on him the whole time?


about the photos, they are wearing very short clothes revealing legs and breasts at the same time, wearing so much make up that it looks like a whole make up box was used in one time. posing in very flirty ways and you just get the feeling that they are not just sharing a photo they are doing it for the attention.

about the bed hopping,HE told me that they go out after work with different men and all the people who work with these women know how they are etc..


i had full access to the phone.i could pick the phone up anytime.in fact i did so when i wanted to know his work starting time because it starts on different times on different days and i had to be ready on that time so that he will drop me at my parents.his boss texts him the starting time.


----------



## finding-a-path

and after Aug 13th, he suddenly password protected the phone. he left on 16th. argument about video was on 13th.


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## finding-a-path

please tell me. because if i am controlling by expecting this, i want to correct that. and if these are good boundaries, i need to stick with them..

i put my foot down when he 1st did it,years ago and i set these boundaries... so are these boundaries controlling with regards to him? and... are these boundaries controlling if i request them from a new man? (no, i am not looking for a new man.just thinking about the future)


1) not adding women except family on facebook
2)not chatting with women except family on facebook or any other site
3)not "like" or comment on pics of random women (a celebrity is ok as long as he is not commenting about how sexy she is etc)


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> about the photos, they are wearing very short clothes revealing legs and breasts at the same time, wearing so much make up that it looks like a whole make up box was used in one time. posing in very flirty ways and *you just get the feeling* that they are not just sharing a photo they are doing it for the attention.


Sounds like all my DD24's friends. So what? That's what young women do. And 'you just get the feeling' does NOT make them hookers, wh*res, or man-chasers.



finding-a-path said:


> about the bed hopping,*HE told me *that they go out after work with different men and *all the people* who work with these women *know how they are* etc..


 First, it's more likely that YOUR husband WANTED these women and noticed them, so HE started commenting about them. Second, again, you are using HEARSAY - no proof - so please stop labeling people you know nothing about firsthand. The only person YOU know firsthand is your husband - who is a cheater.



finding-a-path said:


> i had full access to the phone.i could pick the phone up anytime.in fact i did so when i wanted to know his work starting time because it starts on different times on different days and i had to be ready on that time so that he will drop me at my parents.his boss texts him the starting time.


So basically, he was fine - until he started cheating. What does that give you? It gives you that you married a man with weak morals and boundaries who chose to cheat - either that, or given your part of the world, he simply believed that when tempted, he had the RIGHT to get more than one woman.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Sounds like all my DD24's friends. So what? That's what young women do. And 'you just get the feeling' does NOT make them hookers, wh*res, or man-chasers.
> 
> First, it's more likely that YOUR husband WANTED these women and noticed them, so HE started commenting about them. Second, again, you are using HEARSAY - no proof - so please stop labeling people you know nothing about firsthand. The only person YOU know firsthand is your husband - who is a cheater.
> 
> So basically, he was fine - until he started cheating. What does that give you? It gives you that you married a man with weak morals and boundaries who chose to cheat - either that, or given your part of the world, he simply believed that when tempted, he had the RIGHT to get more than one woman.


i know it is what young women do in your part of the world.i know it is normal for you. But here, it is not normal. I work with 50 women,no 1 is like that, no 1 dresses in half naked dresses, no 1 uses that much make up. If i could i would show you those photos. 
And,with the way these women change men (they change photos every few months,always with a different man) i know they are attention seeking women with low morals. So, he is friending these women,liking and commenting on their photos. That is not the values i expect from a husband. 
So, how do i know a man has 'weak morals and boundaries' when he pretends to have high morals...? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

I believe that those 3 things i mentioned are healthy boundaries for a good marriage where the woman/man do not give time/attention/care for other women/men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I think you're way ahead of the car, path. You are in NO SHAPE to be considering dating anyone. And the problems with your marriage are on HIM, not you. Stop dragging yourself through this.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I think you're way ahead of the car, path. You are in NO SHAPE to be considering dating anyone. And the problems with your marriage are on HIM, not you. Stop dragging yourself through this.


no.i did not think about dating anyone. I mentioned it above. I just wanted to correct myself IF i was controlling. Because that correction would help me in my whole life. No matter when i start dating. In 2 years,5years or whenever.. Now after reading your posts saying you know many men who wouldnt dream about contacting another woman etc i have decided that not adding females except family,not chatting,not liking and commenting on pics of unknown women are good boundaries.after all, if a man selects liking and commenting on photos of women over his marriage it is pathetic. and i think if someone cares and respects their spouse, they would not go and like these photos.i mean what do they get?they are Just stroking the ego of an attention seeker.so is that important more than respecting feelings of the spouse...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

the fact is i am hurt and i hate myself for trusting this man  very very sad...i thought he was the best man in the world.. And now i know i will not trust any1 again. That panic made me ask how do i know a man with good moral values and good boundaries when they are pretending..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You don't. You can't read their minds. But that is why YOU have to have strong boundaries and be willing to WALK AWAY if they cross those boundaries. I guarantee if you had put your foot down at the first instance, he would have either walked away from you that time, or he would have come to respect you and stopped doing it. It has to come from YOU and what you're willing to accept. And you don't need to ask us what is normal. I do, suggest, however, that you continue therapy. You have a very low sense of self worth, I think. If you loved yourself, you wouldn't even be asking us, because you'd know what you deserve.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You don't. You can't read their minds. But that is why YOU have to have strong boundaries and be willing to WALK AWAY if they cross those boundaries. I guarantee if you had put your foot down at the first instance, he would have either walked away from you that time, or he would have come to respect you and stopped doing it. i think i should have stopped the relationship then... then if he wanted me, he would have learned to respect the standard i expect from my man. it seems i just talked about the boundary and he just agreed but his heart was not in it It has to come from YOU and what you're willing to accept. thank you for that.that is a sentence which has great influence on me.i read it and thought about it several hours before typing this.and my conclusion
> 
> i am me.i decide what i am willing to accept. there are many women who will accept more than what i am willing to accept and many who are willing to accept less than me.(for example my brother's gf does not want a man with a facebook account because of the trouble it brings) so here are my boundaries.i have decided on these and these were in place from the start. so if he feels these are controlling, he can divorce me, but i will stick with my values and morals and will not make them less for any man.
> 
> 1)my husband shall not add any unknown females on facebook (likewise, i will not add any unknown males)
> 
> 2)if his work friends were decent women,there would not have been a problem adding them,but since i know what type of loose women they are with low morals and weak boundaries,it is not ok to add them (i will not add males from work too)
> 
> 3) he shall not chat with females other than family on internet (i wont with males too)
> 
> 4) he shall not like or comment on photos of females
> 
> so there. those are MY boundaries, there is no double standard as i am willing to follow the same boundaries. and if he thinks chatting and blah blah are more important than protecting his marriage, then he has displaced his brain And you don't need to ask us what is normal. I do, suggest, however, that you continue therapy. You have a very low sense of self worth, I think. If you loved yourself, you wouldn't even be asking us, because you'd know what you deserve.


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## Blossom Leigh

Just get in the habit of expecting him to maintain his own good boundaries and partner together in wise boundaries without policing each other.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Just get in the habit of expecting him to maintain his own good boundaries and partner together in wise boundaries without policing each other.


yes. that is the habit i had. 1st i thought he will maintain his own good boundaries (when we were in a relationship) then, when i got to know that he was chatting with women i had the talk about boundaries and we decided together. then i trusted he will maintain those boundaries. but now he proved that he can't do it. and i am left with a huge pain because i feel deceived.. i thought he really meant it when he said he does not want to give attention to other women..


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## Blossom Leigh

So what's the status with you two right now?


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## turnera

So, if you meet a guy at work who has a reputation - that is unfounded, meaning YOU know they are all lies, that he's happily married, he just happens to dress in clothes that a partier might wear - for hooking up with all the ladies, and your husband objects to you speaking to him...even though you know it's not true, you will abide by your husband's wishes and never talk to this guy at work or elsewhere, this guy who you KNOW is a really nice guy?

Just verifying. Because, once again, you are using HEARSAY and PERSONAL PREFERENCE of clothing to brand these women as sl*ts. If you go through life doing that NO man is going to be willing to stand by you and just say yes dear.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> So, if you meet a guy at work who has a reputation - that is unfounded, meaning YOU know they are all lies, that he's happily married, he just happens to dress in clothes that a partier might wear - for hooking up with all the ladies, and your husband objects to you speaking to him...even though you know it's not true, you will abide by your husband's wishes and never talk to this guy at work or elsewhere, this guy who you KNOW is a really nice guy?
> 
> 1st i ll answer your question. if that is a nice guy, if he does not cheat, even if that guy is a saint, or tom cruise or brad Pitt (lol, that is just an example) IF MY HUSBAND says "i don't like you talking with him" then i won't talk with him.that's all. i would think does my husbands feelings matter to me or is it more important that i chat with this guy disregarding my husband's feelings? he is uncomfortable with what i am doing so do i continue doing it knowing the way husband feels about it? or do i stop it because he does not want me to give time,attention and care for a man outside marriage? i ll not talk at all.
> 
> and turnera, i am not using hearsay.i mentioned in a post above that know these women are ****s.they change pics every 2-3 months,always with a new man.and i also mentioned that here, no one else wears clothes like that... only these type of women who wants attention do it.and i am not using personal preference of clothing to say this. i am using country's preference against the few thousand women's preference.
> Just verifying. Because, once again, you are using HEARSAY and PERSONAL PREFERENCE of clothing to brand these women as sl*ts. If you go through life doing that NO man is going to be willing to stand by you and just say yes dear.


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> So what's the status with you two right now?


he sent me a text wishing me for the exam, then after the exam day, i noticed that he has added RANDOM women on facebook.all wearing revealing clothing, posing in flirty poses etc. basically people who you just look at and think "she is indecent" then i saw that he has liked and commented on their photos ! which was a boundary in our marriage. i don't look at and chat with random men.so i sent him a text asking why are you doing that (i could not just stay like a doormat after seeing that he is not thinking about the boundaries. he might be out of home but he is still married) so, he said "i am out of home,so i can do anything i want,i have freedom" 

so i thought ok, you are looking at other women, you are giving time and attention to them.i know how chatting turns in to "what food/movies/places/songs you like to what sex positions you like" and becomes emotional affairs, that is why we had this boundary in our marriage, if you don't respect that anymore, that tells me what type of a man you are...


and he works with this woman who is a total Biatch.she sleeps with everyone, he always said she wears a lot of makeup ( which i saw on photos too) and revealing clothes, he did not like her because of her behavior etc. then i saw that he has gone and liked her photos. and there was a comment by her which had a word which is used only between very close friends..


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> i don't think there are any men who will stay without chatting with other women for a lifetime. this man did four years and now he wants to chat, look at other women's photos etc... i trusted him. so even if i trust someone else this will happen one day right...?


There are men who, when married, will not pursue other women.

Now on the topic of chatting online with women, it all depends.

Let's say that he's on LinkedIn and talks there with women about professional things. Well, that's no any different than talking to a man about professional things.

But if he's on line making friends socially with women not in his and your social circle then that's not acceptable.


----------



## finding-a-path

he said "leave me alone till i decide what's best for me" "i will do whatever i want" so... if the man wants a marriage with no boundaries,then i am not the woman to have that marriage with...


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> he sent me a text wishing me for the exam, then after the exam day, i noticed that he has added RANDOM women on facebook.all wearing revealing clothing, posing in flirty poses etc. basically people who you just look at and think "she is indecent" then i saw that he has liked and commented on their photos ! which was a boundary in our marriage. i don't look at and chat with random men.so i sent him a text asking why are you doing that (i could not just stay like a doormat after seeing that he is not thinking about the boundaries. he might be out of home but he is still married) so, he said "i am out of home,so i can do anything i want,i have freedom"
> 
> so i thought ok, you are looking at other women, you are giving time and attention to them.i know how chatting turns in to "what food/movies/places/songs you like to what sex positions you like" and becomes emotional affairs, that is why we had this boundary in our marriage, if you don't respect that anymore, that tells me what type of a man you are...
> 
> 
> and he works with this woman who is a total Biatch.she sleeps with everyone, he always said she wears a lot of makeup ( which i saw on photos too) and revealing clothes, he did not like her because of her behavior etc. then i saw that he has gone and liked her photos. and there was a comment by her which had a word which is used only between very close friends..


He is obviously out chasing women. He's definitely not willing to give this up for your marriage.

His uncle's idea that you two just need to rent and then you can work on your marriage is about as stupid an idea as can exist. 

Right now you are letting him pull you along like a pull toy. To take control of your life. You need not stop going on Facebook and other social media looking at what he is doing. He's out of your life. Move on. File for divorce and get this disaster over with.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> he sent me a text wishing me for the exam, then after the exam day, i noticed that he has added RANDOM women on facebook.all wearing revealing clothing, posing in flirty poses etc. basically people who you just look at and think "she is indecent" then i saw that he has liked and commented on their photos ! which was a boundary in our marriage. i don't look at and chat with random men.so i sent him a text asking why are you doing that (i could not just stay like a doormat after seeing that he is not thinking about the boundaries. he might be out of home but he is still married) so, he said "i am out of home,so i can do anything i want,i have freedom"
> 
> so i thought ok, you are looking at other women, you are giving time and attention to them.i know how chatting turns in to "what food/movies/places/songs you like to what sex positions you like" and becomes emotional affairs, that is why we had this boundary in our marriage, if you don't respect that anymore, that tells me what type of a man you are...
> 
> 
> and he works with this woman who is a total Biatch.she sleeps with everyone, he always said she wears a lot of makeup ( which i saw on photos too) and revealing clothes, he did not like her because of her behavior etc. then i saw that he has gone and liked her photos. and there was a comment by her which had a word which is used only between very close friends..



ah, further confirmation of my suspicions... 

This guy does not know what "still married" means whether you are separated or not. "Out of the house" means nothing. He gave you a list of "wishes" which indicates desire to reconcile, whether he thinks so or not and no matter HOW outlandish the requests are, therefore, no, he is not totally free to do what he wants. Especially without mutual agreement and prior knowledge of said boundary in your marriage. He's definitely walking all over that crap. Just pull the plug...

Have you decided what you are doing?


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> he said "leave me alone till i decide what's best for me" "i will do whatever i want" so... if the man wants a marriage with no boundaries,then i am not the woman to have that marriage with...


So what are you doing about this?


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> he said "leave me alone till i decide what's best for me" "i will do whatever i want" so... if the man wants a marriage with no boundaries,then i am not the woman to have that marriage with...


"H, I believe I will leave you alone permanently since your actions indicate it is your preference anyway."


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> There are men who, when married, will not pursue other women.
> 
> Now on the topic of chatting online with women, it all depends.
> 
> Let's say that he's on LinkedIn and talks there with women about professional things. Well, that's no any different than talking to a man about professional things.
> 
> But if he's on line making friends socially with women not in his and your social circle then that's not acceptable.


yes. most women are random,as far as i know we both haven't met them even once.

what is your idea about him adding and chatting with women whom he knows as women with weak boundaries who sleeps around, who are just screaming for attention by wearing clothes showing breasts and legs, loads of make up like they used the whole make up box etc. basically women who are 35 years but behaves like they are 18? there is one women like that, others are random.. that one women is a friend of a woman with whom he works with.that work colleague is like that too. 35 trying to be 18.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> yes. most women are random,as far as i know we both haven't met them even once.
> 
> what is your idea about him adding and chatting with women whom he knows as women with weak boundaries who sleeps around, who are just screaming for attention by wearing clothes showing breasts and legs, loads of make up like they used the whole make up box etc. basically women who are 35 years but behaves like they are 18? there is one women like that, others are random.. that one women is a friend of a woman with whom he works with.that work colleague is like that too. 35 tying to be 18.


I already gave my opinion on this behavior. He's acting like a single guy looking to hook up and party.

You now know what he's up to. He's not acting married.

Take screen shots of this nonsense as proof of what he's up to. Use them to remind yourself when you start wanting to get back with him.

But the stop looking at what he's doing on facebook and other social media. Just stop it. 

And go file for divorce.


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## Blossom Leigh

EleGirl said:


> I already gave my opinion on this behavior. He's acting like a single guy looking to hook up and party.
> 
> You now know what he's up to. He's not acting married.
> 
> Take screen shots of this nonsense as proof of what he's up to. Use them to remind yourself when you start wanting to get back with him.
> 
> But the stop looking at what he's doing on facebook and other social media. Just stop it.
> 
> And go file for divorce.


Amen Sister... HE HAS EARNED THAT RESPONSE...

Quit d!cking around with this self entitled abusive immature person... just cut it loose...

Don't spend 17 years chasing him like I did my Ex... trust me... don't go there.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Amen Sister... HE HAS EARNED THAT RESPONSE...
> 
> Quit d!cking around with this self entitled abusive immature person... just cut it loose...
> 
> Don't spend 17 years chasing him like I did my Ex... trust me... don't go there.


you spent 17 years in a troubled marriage and then got out and found love ... ?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> you spent 17 years in a troubled marriage and then got out and found love ... ?


LOL! well, how do I answer that question....

Both my marriages are as complex as I am. 

I am a trauma victim from my childhood. I was raised to accept abuse and abandonment as normal. So that dynamic has plagued both marriages. I felt abandoned in the first one and had an affair. And have endured abuse in the second one plus he had an affair on me. So, I have been on both sides of affairs as a BS and a WS. The grass on the other side is just different. I have very different problems in both relationships, but rooted in the same reasons.

What I have learned is demonstrate I am a woman to be respected. How? By doing my own work, owning my own behavior and expecting no less from him. My second husband has touched my soul at depths no other man has by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGG shot. So it is most definitely a more satisfying emotional connection (Love) inspite of the volatility. My Ex and I were more great friends. He didn't have the capacity to plum the depths of my soul the way I needed. He was more of a surface guy and I have been called as deep as the Pacific. Their emotional intelligence is like night and day as is their self awareness. My two husbands are polar opposites of each other. 

Contentment, Happiness is something created & nurtured and for me personally, heavily tied to my relationship with Christ.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> LOL! well, how do I answer that question....
> 
> Both my marriages are as complex as I am.
> 
> I am a trauma victim from my childhood. I was raised to accept abuse and abandonment as normal. So that dynamic has plagued both marriages. I felt abandoned in the first one and had an affair. And have endured abuse in the second one plus he had an affair on me. So, I have been on both sides of affairs as a BS and a WS. The grass on the other side is just different. I have very different problems in both relationships, but rooted in the same reasons.
> 
> What I have learned is demonstrate I am a woman to be respected. How? By doing my own work, owning my own behavior and expecting no less from him. My second husband has touched my soul at depths no other man has by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGG shot. So it is most definitely a more satisfying emotional connection (Love) inspite of the volatility. My Ex and I were more great friends. He didn't have the capacity to plum the depths of my soul the way I needed. He was more of a surface guy and I have been called as deep as the Pacific. Their emotional intelligence is like night and day as is their self awareness. My two husbands are polar opposites of each other.
> 
> Contentment, Happiness is something created & nurtured and for me personally, heavily tied to my relationship with Christ.


you worked through abuse and an affair in your 2nd marriage and now you are past both?


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> you worked through abuse and an affair in your 2nd marriage and now you are past both?



I can never be 100% sure neither will ever happen again. But, that is also true of any relationship. Relationships come with risk no matter who the person is. BUT, My Husband became very willing this past Spring to overcome his personal issues and since then has heavily invested money and time into his personal recovery along side of mine. Has it been perfect, no, but we do our best, learn from mistakes along the way, and partner together in building our new life. So, Yes  There is a VAST difference seven months later after I put my foot down and he chose to engage. The previous 18 months were pure hell.


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## turnera

Note the words "put my foot down."


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Note the words "put my foot down."



Yep... and when I put it down... he knew it was down and it wasn't coming back up. He tried to back me up, but I just dug in and started hitting one single drum consistently... no longer acceptable, no longer acceptable, no longer acceptable.

I made it CRYSTAL clear that the ONLY action he had left to salvage our marriage was professional help. I was done.

As they say down here in the South, "I done got my belly full of that mess, I ain't havin no more of it" LOL


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## finding-a-path

so... as you know, he wished me on my exam last week. then i saw that he was adding random women and liking and commenting on their photos... which broke my heart because he promised not to do it after some issues before we married.

yesterday, he has shared a picture quote on facebook...it had an actress with her man, the photo showed her pregnant belly. the quote said

when a woman marries, she changes her name
leaves her family
leaves her house

she goes through labor pains for her husband

that is why women should be protected


then, below that, the aunt commented "yes.in many marriages it is like this.but there are some marriages in which the wife does not make any of these sacrifices and does not let husband fulfill duties to his relatives"


so i saw this and i commented 

changing the name should be her choice.if she did not change her name at least she will have her own identity when the husband leaves.about the house, many women do leave her house and go live with his family because many women think "does he own a car and a house" before marriage and will only marry a guy with a house.but there are a few women who think "ok it does not matter that he does not own a house,we will build one together" and being a wife does not mean chaniging name, leaving her family etc.. the guy is lucky when he gets a faithful,loving,devoted,caring,honest wife who supports his career,who even massages his feet, who gives great gifts and if she works and contributes to finances too that guy must be feeling like a king"


to which my husband commented

"all those are very minor things of being a wife compared to what is said in the picture.wife should stay home and take care of the family.that is what women are supposed to do"

so... i asked him via inbox what are you saying? now you want a stay at home wife"

he said don't inbox me and blocked me on fb.

well, now we know how much they want to control me.. it was shocking. that this modern man could say something so traditional and outdated.. that the women are SUPPOSED to be home.

5 years ago, when we were dating, his aunt send me an email saying they want a woman to take care of my H and his family. they don't want someone educated/beautiful.

his mother, when she called me and screamed at me for 45 minutes, told me my brother in law's new GF serves her food, serves her drinking water and water to wash her hands so that she (mother) does not have to get up.and she asked me "what do you do for me?" 


so now i guess aunt,mother and my husband all are in the same page about what type of a wife he needs...


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## finding-a-path

i cant believe that he turned around like this.it is like he is typing the aunt's words! I know there is no future for us... I am really sad that my marriage is ending.. And i am upset because we built the house for US and he did not have any problems with the house until his mother said 'you told me not to come because it is YOUR house' i wish they did not break a marriage over who owns bricks and cement.it is pathetic. I knew that the aunt gave husband föod and shelter expecting him to be with her when she is old and to be able to be close and control us..those are her dreams. because we built the house here, she could not make her dreams come true.now her revenge is done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

path, whether now or 5 years from now, they would have tried to break you. You did not DESERVE to anything but their slave.

Now you know.

Now you can divorce and move on and meet a man who was NOT abused and brainwashed and dysfunctional. And yes, they are out there. You just got suckered.


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## EleGirl

Path.. you now see that he is allowing his mother and aunt to control him on some very big level. They both want him, a young son/nephew to take care of them. They don't care if he's wh0ring around with lose women. Now they would be glad if he would just marry someone who will be their servant and who looks the other way while he cases other women.

Do you finally now understand that he is not a man you can stay married to? Can you now be proactive and file for divorce?


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## Blossom Leigh

Vile women...


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## EleGirl

Blossom Leigh said:


> Vile women...


:iagree: No kidding!!! I get angry when I see women act like this. It's what they can get for themselves with no concern about his or Path's well being.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, whether now or 5 years from now, they would have tried to break you. You did not DESERVE to anything but their slave.
> 
> Now you know.
> 
> Now you can divorce and move on and meet a man who was NOT abused and brainwashed and dysfunctional. And yes, they are out there. You just got suckered.


I understand... i knew before marriage that the aunt hated me, because she threatened me to rent near her but i put my foot down and said "no i will not pay rent just because you want to be able to be near me and control me" but i thought with time, her hate for me would fade...how wrong i was.... 

she told me she will stop the wedding if i don't agree to rent where she says...but, i knew if we rented, she would control every detail of my life, we will have to pay a huge amount as rent, and the place our home was built is closer to both our work places than the place she wanted us to rent at.

so i thought she will let us be at peace once she realized that she can't make me do what she wants..

now i know that she was plotting revenge and she would have done this sooner or later.. "this" means telling his mother "your son can't take you in to the house because it is path's house,if they rented like i said, he would take you in.this is path's fault" etc and turning the mother against me and making her turn my husband against me... 

my husband, he has been keeping the tattoo,earring,working abroad etc inside and has been resenting me and after 4 months of thinking "path controlled me by not letting me take my mom in" decided to leave.

so.. now i see the full picture...


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path.. you now see that he is allowing his mother and aunt to control him on some very big level. They both want him, a young son/nephew to take care of them. They don't care if he's wh0ring around with lose women. Now they would be glad if he would just marry someone who will be their servant and who looks the other way while he cases other women.
> 
> yes.he seems to agree with anything they say.they have wanted him to take care of them since he was little..it was the plan. the aunt gave him shelter and food from when he was 6 years to 16 years expecting him to take care of her in return.i have a text in which she told me "i am the one who gave him food and shelter.so he shall do what i want" since he did not do what she wanted (renting near her) and came to live with me, i have been the enemy. i did not think about any of this when i requested mother to come after the exam. but the aunt has seen the opportunity to tell everyone how i controlled him by not letting him take the mother in and they have changed his mind saying i am controlling . now they have him to take care of both of them.. he thinks the aunt loves him.. anyone else except their family can see the truth.. if she loved him, she would have been happy for him..
> 
> Do you finally now understand that he is not a man you can stay married to? Can you now be proactive and file for divorce?


i understand, you know why i am waiting...:angel3:


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> :iagree: No kidding!!! I get angry when I see women act like this. It's what they can get for themselves with no concern about his or Path's well being.


you do not know how comforting your words are... it is so nice to see that people understand the true nature of these women... English is not my 1st language, but i somehow told my story and there are people who understand what i am facing.. that is so comforting.

think about it, my husband told his mother to come later after the exam, he should have told me on that day if he had any objections to her coming after the exam... but he turned only after the mother called and cried... then only it became a problem...

you are so correct in saying they only think about what they can get for themselves... if they cared, would they tell him to rent? no. my salary is around $300 Per month (yes that is enough for 1 person) his is around $700 per month, and rent will be around $300 per month, so now you see how big a financial problem renting will cause.but do they care? no. they just want him to be near. they just want to have me near, to control me.


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> I understand... i knew before marriage that the aunt hated me, because she threatened me to rent near her but i put my foot down and said "no i will not pay rent just because you want to be able to be near me and control me" but i thought with time, her hate for me would fade...how wrong i was....
> 
> she told me she will stop the wedding if i don't agree to rent where she says...but, i knew if we rented, she would control every detail of my life, we will have to pay a huge amount as rent, and the place our home was built is closer to both our work places than the place she wanted us to rent at.
> 
> so i thought she will let us be at peace once she realized that she can't make me do what she wants..
> 
> now i know that she was plotting revenge and she would have done this sooner or later.. "this" means telling his mother "your son can't take you in to the house because it is path's house,if they rented like i said, he would take you in.this is path's fault" etc and turning the mother against me and making her turn my husband against me...
> 
> my husband, he has been keeping the tattoo,earring,working abroad etc inside and has been resenting me and after 4 months of thinking "path controlled me by not letting me take my mom in" decided to leave.
> 
> so.. now i see the full picture...


He allowed his thinking to be infected against you. He failed at one of the most basic tenents in marriage. Having your back and protecting you from harm.


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## Blossom Leigh

This text from the aunt about giving food and shelter to a child as translating to an obligatory reciprocation on his part as an adult is a horrendously abursive mindset. I have always admired how Asian society contributes back to their family, but now I see a very different side of that equation and see how some women would severely abuse their family with unreasonable narcissitic expecations and weild the emotional weapons of fear, obligation and guilt to the destruction of their family. These women should be ashamed of themselves. I am very proud of you for standing on your two feet against their abuse. Their behavior sickens me.

As part if your healing, get the book Emotional Blackmail. I think you will find it very gratifying.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> This text from the aunt about giving food and shelter to a child as translating to an obligatory reciprocation on his part as an adult is a horrendously abursive mindset. I have always admired how Asian society contributes back to their family, but now I see a very different side of that equation and see how some women would severely abuse their family with unreasonable narcissitic expecations and weild the emotional weapons of fear, obligation and guilt to the destruction of their family. These women should be ashamed of themselves. I am very proud of you for standing on your two feet against their abuse. Their behavior sickens me.
> 
> As part if your healing, get the book Emotional Blackmail. I think you will find it very gratifying.


yes.in some families people raise kids and then expect the kids to be their slaves because they raised the kids... In this case,i am the only hurdle that prevented her from making him their puppet.. Now they can have him. Even when husband said he loves me less,i did not suspect the aunt's hand in this.i thought he is just saying it (like he did every time we argue) because his mother was upset. Now i see .. Thank you for the book. I am reading why does he do that. I will add this book to my to be read book list too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Look at it this way. In 40 years he's going to be old, alone, and miserable; they will be long dead and any wife he's capable of getting with those old witches around won't have HALF of the passion and love and brains that you have. He'll think back and remember what he threw away because he wasn't strong enough to stand up to those two women. And he'll grieve.

You, on the other hand, will have moved on and found an emotionally healthy man who'll rock your world, and you'll soon forget you were even married to this sad joker.


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Look at it this way. In 40 years he's going to be old, alone, and miserable; they will be long dead and any wife he's capable of getting with those old witches around won't have HALF of the passion and love and brains that you have. He'll think back and remember what he threw away because he wasn't strong enough to stand up to those two women. And he'll grieve.
> 
> You, on the other hand, will have moved on and found an emotionally healthy man who'll rock your world, and you'll soon forget you were even married to this sad joker.


Well, that about sums it up.


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## finding-a-path

so.. After i asked him 'why did you say -women should stay home and take care of the family.that is what they are supposed to do- he blocked me on fb. On 23rd Sep, i woke up and was ready to go to work when a friend called me and said there is a fb post and comments on the post on his profile..she read it to me. 'W' is the woman i mentioned before.the one who is half naked and sleeps with everyone.. C Is w's friend and C lives with a man who is a friend of my husband. So here is the post,as i remember it. H is husband. 
H-women are the best friends.
Comments
C-who did u know it from? Me?me?me?
H-yes yes yes. You and W and ....
C-good great awesome collar up girls
W- no collar
H-get a collar.btw,thank you for the dinner last night W. Chicken curry was great. Went well with K curry.
W-who made k curry? 
H-C did.it was great.
W-seems you 3 are partying without me
H-ok ok next time we will eat. You make chicken curry.c will make k curry.
But you should do the potatoes better
W-you eat potatoes.thats y u look like one.your belly is big. 
H-ok.ok.i will make it small and show u.give me 1 year. 
W-yes yes.you are going to gym.you have a tattoo. 
H-not yet.tattoo in 2 weeks
W-u not sleeping? 
H-no.u not sleeping?

There are variations of 'you' in our language. Some used between male friends. These 2 were using those for him and he was using those for them. 

Seems H was at the house of his friend and C till 2am and W made some food for them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i was humiliated. Everyone saw a biatch talking about the size of my husband's belly and the other topics, (how great food was) and words were not things a married man uses with other women.. I called his uncle, told him THE WAY he talks with these women is not nice and if he is spending time with other women,i cant take him back. I dont want to share a man, so he said what H Did was wrong.he saw fb post.he said he will talk to him.i said just tell him to provide his address for us to send legal docs please.he said ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i did not go and eat food made by other men for me and praise those men,i did not talk about my body size with other men, i did not chat with other men. And i sure didnt say to any man that i will be slim and SHOW YOU.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Well, what other proof do you need that you made a mistake? That you can now divorce with your head held high, and joke with your friends about the mistake you almost made - staying with a gigelow.


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## finding-a-path

so.. Uncle talked with him and called me. He said H said 'i am free to be friends with anyone' well, I dont think so. I have male work mates. I talk with them about work. I dont go out with them or talk about my belly size with them. And those are decent married people. Sure,he can talk with work mates. But giving them attention on fb and in person, caring about them,talking about bodies with them are not acceptable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Well, what other proof do you need that you made a mistake? That you can now divorce with your head held high, and joke with your friends about the mistake you almost made - staying with a gigelow.


nothing more my dear. I am not taking him back. I dont want a man who is busy giving time attention and care to wh o res.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Tell his uncle you're no longer interested in hearing what they think.


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## finding-a-path

he wants female friends? Sure.we can be friends with married couples. Where we both meet them both, talk about general topics like work,politics whatever and enjoy a movie etc. But, this thing where i am home and he is going and giving them attention,spending time with them? Not going to work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Tell his uncle you're no longer interested in hearing what they think.


he said he told H to give the address. But no address given yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Can you find it on your own or send it to his work?


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## turnera

Address for what?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Address for what?


address of the house they are renting. To send legal documents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

I wouldn't trust that for nothin'

Send it to him at work.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Can you find it on your own or send it to his work?


he works at various places. So cant be sent there. We will have to complain to the police.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

There isnt a central office that can get it to him?


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## finding-a-path

when we went to the therapist H Said 'she asks about this woman i work with.i dont like it' yeah.i asked is she talking with you? So? He could have told me yes or no.but he got angry when i asked.why? Because he was talking and wanted to keep it secret.!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> There isnt a central office that can get it to him?


he works in a band blossom leigh.. Various hotels. And yes. The w h o re is the vocalist of the band. Damn me for trusting him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Ohhhhhh!!!! Well that explains a lot. Lol.


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## finding-a-path

now you see what a risk i took when i trusted him.. He is someone who works with these whO res. But i trusted because i thought he is a person who does not like such women. Now he is out and he is saying she is his friend...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Yep..


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## finding-a-path

and guess what?i talked to his friends and they were surprised that he left for an earring tattoo and those who res. i work at a bank,i am loving,faithful,caring,honest,devoted.. They were like WTF? he left for THOSE reasons?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Just confirms he is still a boy

I know people in the music biz who are quite honorable, loyal and responsible because they are not boys but men.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Just confirms he is still a boy
> 
> I know people in the music biz who are quite honorable, loyal and responsible because they are not boys but men.


i agree. Boys chase after these type of women,want attention etc. A man knows how to select his social circle, boundaries etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i am crushed,my trust in him is destroyed, i feel like i am trapped in a room and the walls are pushing together... And yes,i feel heartache. There is a physical pain in my chest.and i am going to remember this feeling. What a gift he gave me for trusting him. i am disgusted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Totally understand


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## EleGirl

Path, more and more you have reason to file for divorce as soon as possible.

Maybe he could be served divorce papers when he's playing at some club or hotel.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path, more and more you have reason to file for divorce as soon as possible.
> 
> Maybe he could be served divorce papers when he's playing at some club or hotel.


we do not know the schedule.they could be anywhere at any given night. but i think we will find the address soon...


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## finding-a-path

so.... he has said "i should have freedom to have friendships with anyone" 

i disagree

a married man having friendships with these types of women is not a freedom. it is called disrespecting the wife and the marriage.


and what right does that woman got, to talk about the belly of another woman's husband? does she not know any boundaries? and H said i will decrease it and SHOW YOU.


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## Blossom Leigh

in time you will lay down obsessing about the "why" and move towards acceptance of his choices as totally on him. I see a mix of it in you now... you are headed in the right direction.


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## finding-a-path

I am so angry!! if he has to work with her, hi hello and work related things are fine to talk about... but talking about each others bodies, when they will sleep etc are wrong in my book.!! and why is he sharing details of his life with her? she knows he is planning to get a tattoo.!!


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## Blossom Leigh

anger is healthy... just part of the grieving process.


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## turnera

I thought you were done with him...


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## Blossom Leigh

I think she is.... I think she is just in grief processing cycle


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I thought you were done with him...


i decided to divorce.but that does not mean i switched off my feelings about this. I am very angry that he did this to me. When he was here,he said 'that woman goes with every man,i dont even talk with her' now,she is his friend. What the? Its amazing how people can change their word. I am so hurt and angry. He must be very stupid to select her over me. She shows her body to the world,goes with any1. And he became just another man in her who re list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

this is not something new right?this friendship? They cant be that close in 1 month.. He has been talking with her behind my back..?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

what makes a man want to be friends with a wh o re?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

His d*ck.


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## EleGirl

He wants to play around and party. It sounds like these women are like that. 

Path, you need to use this anger to get you through the divorce. Just channel it.


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## finding-a-path

would any one of you be ok with your husbands having friendships with these type of women?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i asked that because i want to show your replies to his uncle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> would any one of you be ok with your husbands having friendships with these type of women?


I'm not sure why you are asking us this question as I don't think that anyone here has even implied that what he's doing is ok.

Friendships of the type you are describing.. no.

But you know what? I would not be ok with my husband hanging out with any woman on such an intimate level.... unless it was Mother Teresa or a 99 year old.

Your husband left you. He's clearly told you that he left you so that he can see other women.I guess it's only now really hitting you that this is why he left you. But the fact is that you cannot do anything about his choices. He has the right to be as immature, selfish and sleazy as he wants to be.

You have the right to not put up with it and divorce him.

So you need to focus on yourself and your divorce. 

You cannot control him. YOu can only control yourself and how you live your life. S


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## finding-a-path

because while he said posting those stuff on fb is wrong, he also said he himself is friends with all types of people including drug addicts and that did not make him a drug addict..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Some day you won't need validation to do what you need to do. Some day you won't CARE that his uncle, his aunt, his mother, or he think, care about, or do.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Some day you won't need validation to do what you need to do. Some day you won't CARE that his uncle, his aunt, his mother, or he think, care about, or do.


i guess.. For now,i need a strongly worded reply which i can give every1 when they say 'he can be friends with any1' blah blah.. 
H is trying to put the blame on me by saying 'it is my freedom to hang out with any 1 i want.she restricts me' i want something which will make every1 understand that what H Is doing is wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

arghhh! Who CARES what they say?!

You're divorcing him! Who gives a flip if they say he can be friends with wh*res? YOU DON'T CARE if he is because YOU'RE DIVORCING HIM!


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## Blossom Leigh

I know professional band members who live their lives honorably and dont have poor boundaries like discussing body parts with women who arent their wives. He is making it very clear he is ok with dishonoring his marriage by choosing to behave single. You have every right to not tolerate those poor choices.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> I know professional band members who live their lives honorably and dont habe poor boundaries like discussing body parts with women who arent their wives. He is making it very clear he is ok with dishonoring his marriage by choosing to behave single. You have every right to not tolerate those poor choices.


thank you.i will talk along those lines when H tries to put blame on me by saying 'she is not giving me freedom' A single man can hang out with anyone.but a married 1 shall not hang out with this type of women talking about body parts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> because while he said posting those stuff on fb is wrong, he also said he himself is friends with all types of people including drug addicts and that did not make him a drug addict..


On one level he's right. He has the right to be friends with anyone he wants to be friends with.

You also have the right to be friends with anyone you want to be friends with. You have other rights too. You have to the right to not be friends with people who are sleazy, drug addicts, etc.

You also have the right to set boundaries for yourself. Your boundary is that you do not want to be married to a man who dates other women and who hangs out with drug addicts. That's all you need to tell people. 

"He has the right to have any friends he wants.. even loose women and drug addicts. I have the right to not want to be married to a man who dates other woman and has friends our are drug addicts." 

That's what you tell people. It's not about controlling him, its about setting your own boundaries.


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## finding-a-path

so.. Husband's friend said he will come to meet me with husband.to talk about this issue.. Now what shall i do..? I do not think husband wants to solve this.i think he is coming just because he cant say no to the friend. So, i just say i do not want a man who gives attention time and care to many women,i do not want a man who is friends with these types of women, who talks about body parts with other women, and he created huge drama for just requesting his mother to come later, so i dont want someone who does not love me.. Is that the right way to address this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> so.. Husband's friend said he will come to meet me with husband.to talk about this issue.. Now what shall i do..? I do not think husband wants to solve this.i think he is coming just because he cant say no to the friend. So, i just say i do not want a man who gives attention time and care to many women,i do not want a man who is friends with these types of women, who talks about body parts with other women, and he created huge drama for just requesting his mother to come later, so i dont want someone who does not love me.. Is that the right way to address this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He is wanting to bring The female friend to talk with you??


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> He is wanting to bring The female friend to talk with you??


no. I would kick her.lol. This is a male friend.. He seems like a nice person. So, what do i say? Is what i mentioned ok?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> so.. Husband's friend said he will come to meet me with husband.to talk about this issue.. Now what shall i do..? I do not think husband wants to solve this.i think he is coming just because he cant say no to the friend. So, i just say i do not want a man who gives attention time and care to many women,i do not want a man who is friends with these types of women, who talks about body parts with other women, and he created huge drama for just requesting his mother to come later, so i dont want someone who does not love me.. Is that the right way to address this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If that is how you are feeling, that is exactly what I would tell him.


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> If that is how you are feeling, that is exactly what I would tell him.


ok..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

i am nervous.i wish elegirl and turnera see this and give their opinion on what else should be discussed.. I feel like 'what if i will be unable to tell everything' etc..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Well, I thought you'd know how I felt. I think you should tell him to take a flying leap and never talk to him again. I think that after what he's done to you, he is IN NO POSITION to 'decide' to meet with you and discuss terms. This isn't war. This isn't detente. This is a marriage, in which ONE partner wanted MORE than to be monagamous and yet expected his wife to be ok with it. He disgusts me, so I can't help you find a way to get along with him. Not in good conscience.


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## lonelyhusband321

turnera said:


> Well, I thought you'd know how I felt. I think you should tell him to take a flying leap and never talk to him again. I think that after what he's done to you, he is IN NO POSITION to 'decide' to meet with you and discuss terms. This isn't war. This isn't detente. This is a marriage, in which ONE partner wanted MORE than to be monagamous and yet expected his wife to be ok with it. He disgusts me, so I can't help you find a way to get along with him. Not in good conscience.


:iagree:

BIG time!!


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## finding-a-path

i am at work,i need to get a half day approved.waiting till they confirm the time they are coming...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

ok..so it is 3.40pm and the friend has not confirmed if and when they are coming... I think he is busy/ couldnt get H to agree to come..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> ok..so it is 3.40pm and the friend has not confirmed if and when they are coming... I think he is busy/ couldnt get H to agree to come..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good, I hope that they have not shown up.

This is WRONG. It's wrong that people, like the uncle and friend, are dragging him to your place to talk to you. These people, while thinking they are doing good, are putting themselves in your marriage. 

Do you really need some friend who you do not know trying to help your husband talk you into accepting him cheating on you? Really?


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## turnera

The ONLY thing that should be happening at this point, path, is your HUSBAND coming to you BY HIMSELF to BEG you to take him back.

Anything short of that is stupid, dishonest, and manipulative.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Good, I hope that they have not shown up.
> 
> This is WRONG. It's wrong that people, like the uncle and friend, are dragging him to your place to talk to you. These people, while thinking they are doing good, are putting themselves in your marriage.
> 
> Do you really need some friend who you do not know trying to help your husband talk you into accepting him cheating on you? Really?


the uncle, the friend, they both tried to help...to try and encourage him to talk about the issues and settle.. but i guess, he does not want to.. 

the friend will not try to help H to talk me in to accepting cheating.he actually knows what type of women those women are... he said he warned everyone when the woman was recruited.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> The ONLY thing that should be happening at this point, path, is your HUSBAND coming to you BY HIMSELF to BEG you to take him back.
> 
> Anything short of that is stupid, dishonest, and manipulative.


i don't think that would happen


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> the uncle, the friend, they both tried to help...to try and encourage him to talk about the issues and settle.. but i guess, he does not want to..
> 
> the friend will not try to help H to talk me in to accepting cheating.he actually knows what type of women those women are... he said he warned everyone when the woman was recruited.


Good friend.... your H is being foolish for ignoring his advice.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Good friend.... your H is being foolish for ignoring his advice.


yes. the friend told me "he is foolish if he is with them.it won't take long for him to be destroyed if he is keeping such company" 

i think H might have told friend something along the lines of "she did not treat my mother well" and stopped friend from coming today. i think H won't be able to face me/my parents so he convinced friend not to come today.but the strange thing is friend did not inform me anything about the scheduled visit today. on Monday he said he will come with H. today, nothing.


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## finding-a-path

today, i was going to do it like this if they came.

1st i was going to tell H "H please tell why you can't be with me"

then he would say she asked my mother to come after the exam(which in reality he asked his mother to do. i suggested,he is the one who called and told her) she objected to tattoo and earring, she objected to drinking (he lied and went to drink.then he went 5 days in 1 month for boys night outs where they drink till 4am.so yeah, i objected to that), she objected to me working abroad.and how he wants to rent now because his mother will not come to path's house.

then i would explain everything. 
then the friend would try to help him understand that he is making small issues in to huge ones.

then talk about chatting with other women. tell him that i don't want a man who gives time,attention and care for other women..


then,even after all the talk when he says i don't want her etc, i was hoping to ask for the address.


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## Blossom Leigh

have you ever been to her house?


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i don't think that would happen


Then it's obvious he really doesn't want you, isn't it? 

He only wants you on HIS terms.

That's not love.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> have you ever been to her house?


whose house?


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> whose house?


Whichever relative he is residing with


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Whichever relative he is residing with


no. The mother and the brother were renting somewhere,then they left that house and rented this house around march i think. This new place is walking distance to the aunt's house. And there is another aunt in the same area too. The evil aunt's basic plan is to gather everyone in to the same area so that she can visit every house and control everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> no. The mother and the brother were renting somewhere,then they left that house and rented this house around march i think. This new place is walking distance to the aunt's house. And there is another aunt in the same area too. The evil aunt's basic plan is to gather everyone in to the same area so that she can visit every house and control everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you have enough awareness of where the house is to use internet sources to get the address on your own?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Do you have enough awareness of where the house is to use internet sources to get the address on your own?


we know the area. How do i get the adress? I went to the therapist today.he told me the same thing. But i only know the name of the town.no name of the lane/road they are in. The therapist advised to go to the police. And then i called his uncle and asked what happened about the address.then, after 6 hours or so H texted and gave me uncle's address and asked me 'to send the divorce papers there'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

There ya go... good enough.


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## turnera

Excellent. Is it done yet?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> There ya go... good enough.


Sending documents to uncle's house? but we need H to sign and take delivery. otherwise he can just say oh i didn't get those. we need his signature on delivery notes.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Excellent. Is it done yet?


no..


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## turnera

Can't you just hire a person to serve him like they do in the US?


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## EleGirl

turnera said:


> Can't you just hire a person to serve him like they do in the US?


In order to serve him, she has to know where he is living. Otherwise how is a process server (or whatever they are called there) going to find her husband?


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## EleGirl

Path,

Is there anything that your husband does on a regular basis? Does he go to a particular coffee house, bar, store?

You might want to talk to a PI. They might know how to find someone through the mail system or the police.


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## AliceA

Send the divorce papers, he might still fill them out and return them. His uncle can hand them to him. If he doesn't accept them, you might be able to put the divorce petition in the newspaper. Publicly serve him.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path,
> 
> Is there anything that your husband does on a regular basis? Does he go to a particular coffee house, bar, store?
> 
> You might want to talk to a PI. They might know how to find someone through the mail system or the police.


he is all over the place. at different bars/clubs every non-working day.although i can't see his fb page my friends tell me he is looking very older and drunk in pictures taken at various clubs.


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## finding-a-path

breeze said:


> Send the divorce papers, he might still fill them out and return them. His uncle can hand them to him. If he doesn't accept them, you might be able to put the divorce petition in the newspaper. Publicly serve him.


this is not the divorce papers. this will be a document summoning him to the courts and letting him know that a divorce case is filed.so if he does not sign, he can say i did not receive the document,that is why i did not appear at court.


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## finding-a-path

after sending his uncle's address he sent me the following.

"i separated because i don't love you at all.tattoo etc i could have done even if you disapproved" ------ so i guess what my counselor said is true.he said H went for a reason and now he is making up excuses. so ... i guess the reason is asking his mother to come later..all the other things,he is just adding up..


then

"i don't want to divorce,i am very happy being separated"


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## turnera

path, just ask one of your 'friends' to text you his address.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> path, just ask one of your 'friends' to text you his address.


my friends dont know his address.they just see his public fb posts and tell me about them


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## turnera

Then pay someone to follow him and get it.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> my friends dont know his address.they just see his public fb posts and tell me about them


You can create a fake facebook page. Get a picture of a sexy woman off the internet. Then friend him.

This way you can see if he talks about where he is going to be. Like does he tell people what club he will be playing at. Then the process server can show up at the club, or anywhere else he says he will be.


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> after sending his uncle's address he sent me the following.
> 
> "i separated because i don't love you at all.tattoo etc i could have done even if you disapproved" ------ so i guess what my counselor said is true.he said H went for a reason and now he is making up excuses. so ... i guess the reason is asking his mother to come later..all the other things,he is just adding up..
> 
> 
> then
> 
> "i don't want to divorce,i am very happy being separated"


Ok so he is finally clear on why he left.

I wonder what advantage he thinks being separated gives him? The only one I can think of is that if you die, he get your house and anything else you have.

Make sure you have a will that gives everything you have to someone other than him.


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## turnera

Most definitely get a quick will ceding your house back to your parents.


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## AliceA

Did you send back that you are also very happy being separated but would be even happier if you were divorced so that you could move on and find someone better?


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Ok so he is finally clear on why he left.
> 
> I wonder what advantage he thinks being separated gives him? The only one I can think of is that if you die, he get your house and anything else you have.
> 
> Make sure you have a will that gives everything you have to someone other than him.


i did not even think about that. good point. i think he is saying he likes being separated and not getting a divorce so he does not have to go through the court dates, lawyer fees etc.


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## finding-a-path

breeze said:


> Did you send back that you are also very happy being separated but would be even happier if you were divorced so that you could move on and find someone better?


i did not send a reply. but i wish i did.


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## finding-a-path

on one hand, i feel so angry that he selected going out every non-working day and hanging out with slu ts etc instead of love and marriage.

on the other hand i feel so very sad that i selected someone to spend the rest of my life with and he decided to leave..i never thought he would turn in to a completely different person..

i can't stop thinking about our memories.. how do i stop that? i have books to read, work to do, movies to watch.but in the middle of everything my mind wanders off and i start thinking about how his touch,kisses and hugs felt, how great sex was, how he used to look at me and tell me i am beautiful etc... how we had nice dates... a thousand memories.... and we were planning a foreign trip..i keep thinking about these memories and dreams...how do i stop?


i feel loneliness.. all my friends are married. so they do not want to go to movies/shopping etc with me because they have kids/ they only go with their husbands/other couples. what do i do...? i was talking with my brother today.it was nice.but as soon as his gf called he went to answer the call and didn't come back for 1 hour.then he started working.


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## EleGirl

It takes time to get over a broken relationship. You replace the old memories with new ones. You get busy doing things that you enjoy.


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## turnera

I'm pretty sure I've told you already to start volunteering somewhere, right? That's the #1 way to get over someone - you're helping people (or animals or the environment) that needs much more than you do, you're meeting other people who are like you, you're making friends, you're keeping busy, and it looks great on you resume.


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## finding-a-path

so... his uncle came with him today.. i explained everything AGAIN(tattoo,earring,going abroad to work etc and mother's issue) and told uncle about the kind of women he is involved with.

uncle asked son,what do you have to say?

following are what he said


"i don't want to come live here because my mother refuses to live here.i will take a house on rent so that it is mine,she will stay there"--my dad said son what is the issue why can't she come.he said she will be second.so i will not bring her.

"i want to have friendships with those women.i can't be friends with only males"-- nobody tells him to be friends with only males,even though i know a lot of you have that boundary in your marriages that there will be no opposite sex friends, i just wanted him not to hang out with this type of women. he wants female friends? sure.co-workers families as COUPLE'S friends are welcome.but he insists he wants to keep company with these women.because it helps his career.lol.don't know how it is helping..

"the counselor said to argue about an issue and then not to take it to the next day.but she asked about the videos on next day"


"i do not love her because of the way she treated my mother and because she tried to suicide"---please look at the above point and how he himself is not listening to what the counselor said.lol.i should forget in one day and he can remember that i tried to swallow some pills in 2012 because HE said he does not love me and will leave me and went out suddenly when i argued about him being on the phone for 1 hour in the middle of a movie we were watching.nice logic.one shall forget,one shall remember for years....and "because of the way she treated my mother" wtf did i do? i just requested him to tell her to come after the exam. so i tell that and he said "no i tried to move her in before" that is a total LIE.


"i don't care about her exam,only my mother matters"-- yeah. this after i have supported his career for 8 years.. and cared about his career.when he has to practice, i don't make sounds,i don't complain about the time spent in practicing.and this is the only time i wanted his support regarding my career and that's what he says...



so uncle asked what is your decision? he said im happy being separated. i want to go abroad.

so.. that is why he does not want to start the divorce..

now, we are planning to go to the police. but my dad says if we go,he can say he wants me to go to a rented place with him and i don't agree.then the police will tell me to go... 


i said i ll tell the police i am not renting with his mother.

so we are just formulating our plan.if X happens we will do B. if A happens we will do S etc..


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## Blossom Leigh

he is blame shifting to everyone else but himself...

typically signals an affair

which I have alluded to before with him.

How does that change your power?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I'm pretty sure I've told you already to start volunteering somewhere, right? That's the #1 way to get over someone - you're helping people (or animals or the environment) that needs much more than you do, you're meeting other people who are like you, you're making friends, you're keeping busy, and it looks great on you resume.


I don't remember... helping people at a hospital/children's home/elder's home...i do not want to do...it is depressing.... i hate going to the hospitals...

animal shelter, i would love to go.but we do not have any around here... there are 10-15 animal shelters in the whole country.. either the animals have homes or they just roam in the roads which is sad..

i know volunteering is a big part of life over there,but here, even if you go to a hospital you might see one volunteer or most days it is 0.


so volunteering is not going to help me meet people or make friends.. and as a side note, here there is no value for volunteering in one's resume  

any other things i can try please...?
there is no meetup type of things here, no book clubs... 


i just want to make some friends who are single and who will be willing to spend time with me..

i am getting an idea.. why not start a divorce support group here... but don't know where to find others to join and i am sure people will look at me funny like i have lost my marbles...


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> he is blame shifting to everyone else but himself...
> 
> typically signals an affair
> 
> which I have alluded to before with him.
> 
> How does that change your power?



he has called my dad and said "she is putting blame on me"

well, what else do i do? if explaining what happened is categorized as putting blame on him, what can i do..

he is the one who said he does not love me because i asked his mother to come later.. i believe as a human being i have the right to say "please ask her to come for her one month visit after my exam" when i knew that it would be hard to study if she comes and watches TV all day.even if this was a house he built, i would have requested that.


what do you mean by how does that change your power?


----------



## turnera

You now know he's a selfish idiot who only stayed with you because you supported his 'career' - i.e., let him play at being in a band instead of having a real job. Now that you're expecting him to actually show some responsibility, you're not worth the trouble. How dare you expect him to be a real husband?

Just move on.

I think starting up your own divorce group is an EXCELLENT idea. Another one would be to set up what we call here a block party. It means that you go to all the people in your neighborhood, or your building, and say you're going to sponsor a party, pick some common ground like a neighborhood park, give the time and date, tell them to bring something to eat or drink, and everyone just shares what everyone brought, and gets to know all your neighbors.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> he has called my dad and said "she is putting blame on me"
> 
> well, what else do i do? if explaining what happened is categorized as putting blame on him, what can i do..
> 
> he is the one who said he does not love me because i asked his mother to come later.. i believe as a human being i have the right to say "please ask her to come for her one month visit after my exam" when i knew that it would be hard to study if she comes and watches TV all day.even if this was a house he built, i would have requested that.
> 
> 
> what do you mean by how does that change your power?


If you had evidence of an affair would you then not be told by the police to go with him?


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## Blossom Leigh

Volunteering isn't valued

Very few animal shelters

Mothers elevated above wives as normal

I would not want to live in that culture. 

I know ours isn't the best in the world, but those dynamics are sad.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You now know he's a selfish idiot who only stayed with you because you supported his 'career' - i.e., let him play at being in a band instead of having a real job. Now that you're expecting him to actually show some responsibility, you're not worth the trouble. How dare you expect him to be a real husband?
> 
> Just move on.
> 
> I think starting up your own divorce group is an EXCELLENT idea. Another one would be to set up what we call here a block party. It means that you go to all the people in your neighborhood, or your building, and say you're going to sponsor a party, pick some common ground like a neighborhood park, give the time and date, tell them to bring something to eat or drink, and everyone just shares what everyone brought, and gets to know all your neighbors.


his job gives enough money for two people to have a very comfortable life and give $100 to his mother every month. I earn around $400 per month by working at a bank and he earns more than double of that.. So there was no problems in the money area. Sorry if i gave the wrong idea.by 'supporting' i meant i suggested to plan the house with a separate practice room, i did not disturb when practicing even on weekends,i am the one who said you should practice/you practiced a lot today why not take a break, i got him lesson Dvds, books and magazine subscriptions related to work, i encouraged him to create his own tracks,i always sent the links when i found articles about work related things,i got to know his favorite players, i praised his work, i always said lets get u new work clothes and got them,heck i even reminded him to arrange transport to go to work,i had to go to my parents house everyday he had work but i didnt complain,i reminded him to order strings.. Listened to work problems Everything.and i asked support and thats what i get. 'i dont care about the exam'
the block party idea is nice. But we mostly have neighbors who are waiting to know all the gossip and talk behind our backs. Mostly housewives who are not very educated who just get cheap thrills by discussing other peoples lives. I know it sounds bad.but thats how it is.. Few good people.like doctors etc they are too busy. But i must think about the support group.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> If you had evidence of an affair would you then not be told by the police to go with him?


correct.then the police will advise him to stop it and come home and will write that down and take his signature. If no evidence and i am told to go with him,i will have to agree and sign.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Volunteering isn't valued
> 
> Very few animal shelters
> 
> Mothers elevated above wives as normal
> 
> I would not want to live in that culture.
> 
> I know ours isn't the best in the world, but those dynamics are sad.


i think its more like there are no places to volunteer.. Here,people tend to help each other. But being a small country and because all the places like hospitals let paid workers do everything there are no places needing volunteers..
Yes.i too wish there were more animal shelters and men knew how to treat their wives.. This 'she raised me.so she MUST come 1st' thing is not good.at least mother and wife both should be equal. often,when a girl marries a boy,boy's family thinks 'ah we got someone to service us'. that evil aunt of H told me 'we didnt find a beautiful educated or a working girl like you for him.we wanted someone who will take care of his family' yeah.be a cook nurse and maid for his mother and aunt.lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ahhh gotcha about the volunteers, etc


In my faith, the man honors his mother, but cuts the strings and cleaves to his wife as #1 priority. He creates his own family and his mother must take a back seat to the new family unit he is now leading.


The mothers are to train their boys to leave them and have their own family. The marriages I see struggle the most are the ones who are not clear on that order and the mothers are allowed to meddle.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> his job gives enough money for two people to have a very comfortable life and give $100 to his mother every month. I earn around $400 per month by working at a bank and he earns more than double of that.. So there was no problems in the money area. Sorry if i gave the wrong idea.by 'supporting' i meant i suggested to plan the house with a separate practice room, i did not disturb when practicing even on weekends,i am the one who said you should practice/you practiced a lot today why not take a break, i got him lesson Dvds, books and magazine subscriptions related to work, i encouraged him to create his own tracks,i always sent the links when i found articles about work related things,i got to know his favorite players, i praised his work, i always said lets get u new work clothes and got them,heck i even reminded him to arrange transport to go to work,i had to go to my parents house everyday he had work but i didnt complain,i reminded him to order strings.. Listened to work problems Everything.and i asked support and thats what i get. 'i dont care about the exam'
> the block party idea is nice. But we mostly have neighbors who are waiting to know all the gossip and talk behind our backs. Mostly housewives who are not very educated who just get cheap thrills by discussing other peoples lives. I know it sounds bad.but thats how it is.. Few good people.like doctors etc they are too busy. But i must think about the support group.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


the difference in the salaries/living expenses here in the states compared to other countries blows my mind.


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> the block party idea is nice. But we mostly have neighbors who are waiting to know all the gossip and talk behind our backs. Mostly housewives who are not very educated who just get cheap thrills by discussing other peoples lives. I know it sounds bad.but thats how it is.. Few good people.like doctors


I think it's sad that you determine people aren't 'good enough' for to you get to know because you're too busy assuming you know who and how they are. It's been my experience that the NICEST people I've ever met, in my 56 years, have been the people with the least. They don't take people for granted. They don't only want to associate with 'good' people. They see what's important in life, like decency and helping others and enjoying each day, rather than trying to get further ahead than other people. Do they gossip? Sure. EVERYone gossips. You're pretty mean yourself when you discuss other women and your MIL. I'm kind of disappointed in you.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I think it's sad that you determine people aren't 'good enough' for to you get to know because you're too busy assuming you know who and how they are. It's been my experience that the NICEST people I've ever met, in my 56 years, have been the people with the least. They don't take people for granted. They don't only want to associate with 'good' people. They see what's important in life, like decency and helping others and enjoying each day, rather than trying to get further ahead than other people. Do they gossip? Sure. EVERYone gossips. You're pretty mean yourself when you discuss other women and your MIL. I'm kind of disappointed in you.


ok.. so i tried to say these people are not good by giving as little info as possible so that you would not think that all the people here are bad. but since you did not get the idea about them,here goes.


you said "you're too busy assuming you know who and how they are." no. i know who and how they are. let me describe you a few.
the woman infront of our house-- whenever we go somewhere and come, she hears the sound of the vehicle and comes out and openly stares at the bags we bring,our clothes. it makes me very uncomfortable.i tried smiling with her,she didnt.just wants to know whats in the bags i guess.. it's creepy.

the man on our right side-- we can't go to our garden.if we go,he has to come out and start looking. one day, husband ate his lunch and threw away the rest and went inside, this man came and looked what's it that he threw away to garbage!! i was not there.was at work.husband saw this and told me.. also, i can't go out to at least take some clothes in which were hanged to dry.he is always looking.

the people near my mother's house-- there are a mother and a daughter. there is a word for childless people like barren. these people fight with my mother because they throw their dirty water in to the road and then they say "don't worry about the dirty water.your daughter is barren.why not worry about that" and laugh.


so that is the type of people we live with.no, it is not something connected to people being rich or poor.it's about being educated and not educated.there are nice people like teachers and doctors who are not looking for opportunities to laugh at others too.

when these people get to know that i am going to be the hot topic.no divorcee in the whole village. 


now maybe you can understand.


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> so.. that is why he does not want to start the divorce..
> 
> now, we are planning to go to the police. but my dad says if we go,he can say he wants me to go to a rented place with him and i don't agree.then the police will tell me to go...
> 
> 
> i said i ll tell the police i am not renting with his mother.


I'm confused. What would you be going to the police for?


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> I'm confused. What would you be going to the police for?


i just wanted to comment that i saw your reply, i will reply you... i had high drama today, my father is completely against divorce and is forcing me to beg H to come home.i had a huge fight, left parents home and came to my own home (our home before H left) it's raining, i was alone and then my mother came.. i am crying and trying to recover. i will reply you.. thank you...


----------



## Blossom Leigh

How is he forcing you?


----------



## turnera

You mean he's pressuring you, right? You don't have to do anything these men tell you. Even your own dad. It's clear women aren't respected there.


----------



## Canon in D

Dear finding, I am sorry for what you are going through, it's so tough to be a woman where you are. The culture makes it really tough for you so it seems.


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> I'm confused. What would you be going to the police for?


since he is refusing to give his address and the lawyer can't file without his address, we have to go to the police and tell them that he has left home,and it does not seem like he will be back,we do not know where he is,we want to file for divorce so can they help us get the address. then they write down the complaint, then they will call the police station of the area where H is and will ask him to come to the police station.

but after coming, they always try to settle the matter without divorce. they will ask from both parties what is wrong. my father says H might say "no i don't want a divorce, i asked her to rent with me,she does not agree" then the police will tell me to go with him....


but i do not want to go.why rent because of one woman's ego when we have our own house. and H goes to work around 4pm,some days i get home around 7pm when it's dark. here, my mother/brother comes to pick me up because it is not safe for a woman at that time to walk home alone...but if i go, i am sure H's mother will not come to the road....


i am stuck and mad at myself for trusting H when he said "i will love you forever"


----------



## Blossom Leigh

People are human and feelings change. If anything this is a lesson about adopting ahealthy dose of realism.


----------



## finding-a-path

so.. i came home from work yesterday.my father started going on and on about how i should have listened to H and stayed shut and tolerated his mother's visit..exam or not. then i said how can i study when she talks for hours and watches TV for hours. his answer "somehow".. it's like my needs does not matter at all. 

he said since there was no photo of H "sleeping" with those women on fb, i should let it go and talk to him and ask him to come home.. i said well, i don't count only "sleeping" with another woman as cheating. when he is praising other women's photos, discussing about body parts with them,spending time on other women,giving them attention and care, he has already cheated...i don't do those with other men.i can't share a husband...

father said, he started all those wrong things because he left home.i should have asked him not to go, i should have agreed to mother coming etc..

then he said i shall try to solve this without divorce.we can't find another man.blah blah.and i said i am not afraid of that.he told me to "leave his home" because i don't want to solve this.

i was so angry.i did not even had time for a wash after coming home when he started shouting. i just changed clothes, got 2 bags and went away to spend the night alone at my home.. 

it was scary.there was no one in the road except the drunk men.but i went.then after some time my mother came. then we spent the night there. she came back to father's house and has argued with him. he had said "i didn't want her to leave.i just want them to settle" 


then my mother came back to my house and asked me to come to parents home because she does not want me to be alone.my brother also called. then i decided to come back..


now i am back and he hasn't said a word about this yet...


----------



## finding-a-path

Canon in D said:


> Dear finding, I am sorry for what you are going through, it's so tough to be a woman where you are. The culture makes it really tough for you so it seems.


thank you.. yes it is very tough. and i haven't even started the divorce proceedings yet... i will have to face very difficult situations, neighbors,relatives.... the one good thing is my friends are supportive...


----------



## turnera

path, at SOME point, you are going to have to grow up.

You are a professional adult with her own career and her own home. 

Stop doing what your mommy and daddy tell you to do.

Start acting like a grownup.

Go to the police BY YOURSELF and get the address.


----------



## turnera

btw, the reason you PICKED an abusive misogynist a-hole is because you marry a duplicate of your parent. We all do. You married your father. He TAUGHT you that you were worthless unless a man chose you and now that you ask for decency, he AGAIN squashes you down and says you are worthless unless a man chooses you.

It's time to grow up and IGNORE your harmful dad. Move back to your own home. Start listening to YOU, not your harmful father.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

and learn how to use a gun for self protection if you are going to be living alone in an unsafe area and get a big dog OR get a roommate.


----------



## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> since he is refusing to give his address and the lawyer can't file without his address, we have to go to the police and tell them that he has left home,and it does not seem like he will be back,we do not know where he is,we want to file for divorce so can they help us get the address. then they write down the complaint, then they will call the police station of the area where H is and will ask him to come to the police station.
> 
> but after coming, they always try to settle the matter without divorce. they will ask from both parties what is wrong. my father says H might say "no i don't want a divorce, i asked her to rent with me,she does not agree" then the police will tell me to go with him....
> 
> 
> but i do not want to go.why rent because of one woman's ego when we have our own house. and H goes to work around 4pm,some days i get home around 7pm when it's dark. here, my mother/brother comes to pick me up because it is not safe for a woman at that time to walk home alone...but if i go, i am sure H's mother will not come to the road....
> 
> 
> i am stuck and mad at myself for trusting H when he said "i will love you forever"


So where you live, the police can order you to go live with a man who is cheating and you have to do it?


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> and learn how to use a gun for self protection if you are going to be living alone in an unsafe area and get a big dog OR get a roommate.


guns are not Allowed. i am thinking about getting a dog, a maid and moving.


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> So where you live, the police can order you to go live with a man who is cheating and you have to do it?


if i can prove that he is cheating then i wont have to go. but since he is not --physically-- cheating, they will tell me to go. 


i am sick of him and his uncle both saying "he can be friends with anyone" i don't think he shall be friends with this type of women.sure,when working together he has to talk.but adding them on fb,talking about body parts and praising their curries etc are not ok for me....



basically,
i do not want MY husband to spend time chatting with other women over the internet,
i do not want my husband to give them attention(liking and commenting on their photos,asking them what songs/food etc they like) 
i do not want my husband to take care of other women (when are you sleeping,did you eat blah blah)

i don't want to share a husband.chatting creates an emotional connection.intimacy. but him and uncle both seem to think it is ok...


he wants friends? we can be friends with other couples.in real life.not on fb.


but even the uncle who is a fair person seems unable to understand this.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Geeze. Oppressive.

Sorry, but I've been home alone before at night when someone unannounced knocked on my door and when I snuck a peek, he had a motorcycle helmet on his head, so I had no idea who it was. I took a moment to pack heat in the back of my jeans, returned to the door, he was leaving when I let my big dogs out on him and stepped out on the porch. He was a bit rattled and took his helmet off and low & behold it was one of the pastors from our church. I told him to never come unannounced. I was glad I had both and knew how to use both.


----------



## EleGirl

Path,

It's hard to believe that the police can order you to return to a husband who you do not want to return to. 

You now know why your husband is like he is... he's got his family telling him that he can do things that are inappropriate. 

You deserve much more than this.


----------



## jin

It sounds like Path may be living in India. If she is it is possible the police will do this.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

She said it was a small country.


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path,
> 
> It's hard to believe that the police can order you to return to a husband who you do not want to return to.
> 
> You now know why your husband is like he is... he's got his family telling him that he can do things that are inappropriate.
> 
> You deserve much more than this.


the police will do it.they will ask him to stop contacting those women and they will tell me to rent where he wants 'because he is the husband' and i will be told how i got the husband because of his mother(giving birth to him) and how i shall respect her. What nobody seems to understand is that i am a human being too and she shall respect me too... Just because she is older she gets to dictate. Not fair..
Yes.the whole family is ok with him having friendships with this type of women. I say a married man shall not give time attention and care to other women.they say it is his freedom to be friends with anyone he wants !!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> She said it was a small country.


i do not want to mention the country name because i do not want everyone to read and think all the men/mothers in my country are like this and all the women are suffering... Guns are not allowed,a woman cant live alone,but i do love my country and do not want to give out a bad image.. There are many happy women with happy marriages here without the bad MIL problems. I will inbox you and the others the name of the country  now i am on mobile. when i wake up and use the site using the desktop,i will inbox.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Path, how are you doing?


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path, how are you doing?


I am doing ok... H has called my father and said he will come next week to "discuss". i don't know what is there to discuss more since he clearly said he does not love me.but since my father insists that we talk about this, i am waiting till next week.


his brother contacted me day before yesterday. he has taken H to a pub and tried talking about why he is breaking up the marriage. H has said "i don't want to talk about it.i want to be with mother" then he has told him to stop contacts with me.

i guess H does not want any of his friends/relatives to know both sides of the story....

on Oct 7th, my mother has called his mother. (she changed her number two weeks before H left.so we did not have the number.my mother got it from the uncle)
his mother has shouted and cried and gone on for around 30 minutes saying

"i wanted to come see my kid and path didn't let me"---there is a difference between coming to see and staying for a month..which she does not see even after 5 months from the original incident.

"i visit only when i want.i do not visit when path wants"---well, before visiting a home,humans with basic manners 1st inquire from the people of the house if it is ok to visit. they don't say "i will come,you must accept me,you must host me". i don't know why she has this idea of "i will do what i want,when i want"


and she has said now she will not come ever etc. me, even if i get angry with someone, i later think about it...she had 5 months to think and realize it is not ok to go for 1 month visits when the people at the house are busy, but she has not realized it and i think she wont realize it ever. 

i did not even want to update you all about this phone call because it is the same things she said 5 months ago. but then i thought updating will let you see how stubborn she is.. and how set on her ways she is.. not ready to accept that other people cant host her anytime she wants and other people have lives too.


anyway now i am just waiting to go on with life.... let's see what new drama there will be next week. i think H just told my dad he will come so that he can drag this on and on...but i don't know why he is doing it. but it's going to be "time up" for him next week... because i am not ready to wait forever till he decides... i have already decided.and he will have to accept it or demonstrate huge changes,give up the women,and go to counseling(which he won't do)


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> I am doing ok... H has called my father and said he will come next week to "discuss". i don't know what is there to discuss more since he clearly said he does not love me.but since my father insists that we talk about this, i am waiting till next week.
> 
> 
> his brother contacted me day before yesterday. he has taken H to a pub and tried talking about why he is breaking up the marriage. H has said "i don't want to talk about it.i want to be with mother" then he has told him to stop contacts with me.
> 
> i guess H does not want any of his friends/relatives to know both sides of the story....
> 
> on Oct 7th, my mother has called his mother. (she changed her number two weeks before H left.so we did not have the number.my mother got it from the uncle)
> his mother has shouted and cried and gone on for around 30 minutes saying
> 
> "i wanted to come see my kid and path didn't let me"---there is a difference between coming to see and staying for a month..which she does not see even after 5 months from the original incident.
> 
> "i visit only when i want.i do not visit when path wants"---well, before visiting a home,humans with basic manners 1st inquire from the people of the house if it is ok to visit. they don't say "i will come,you must accept me,you must host me". i don't know why she has this idea of "i will do what i want,when i want"
> 
> 
> and she has said now she will not come ever etc. me, even if i get angry with someone, i later think about it...she had 5 months to think and realize it is not ok to go for 1 month visits when the people at the house are busy, but she has not realized it and i think she wont realize it ever.
> 
> i did not even want to update you all about this phone call because it is the same things she said 5 months ago. but then i thought updating will let you see how stubborn she is.. and how set on her ways she is.. not ready to accept that other people cant host her anytime she wants and other people have lives too.
> 
> 
> anyway now i am just waiting to go on with life.... let's see what new drama there will be next week. i think H just told my dad he will come so that he can drag this on and on...but i don't know why he is doing it. but it's going to be "time up" for him next week... because i am not ready to wait forever till he decides... i have already decided.and he will have to accept it or demonstrate huge changes,give up the women,and go to counseling(which he won't do)


Proud of you Girl. Stand in truth, proper etiquette and strength. Soon all will see just who created the damage and it won't be put on you.


----------



## EleGirl

Path,

Next week will be hard because I think that your father will push for you to go back with your husband. I am thinking that in your culture this would make sense as it's considered a bad thing for a woman to be on her own. You will need to be very strong to hold up against such pressure.

I am sure that there are many women where you live who are in similar situations. I wonder if you could find a way to start a group for some of them so you can support each other.


----------



## Joylush

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Her cholesterol sounds very bad. Maybe she is afraid of dying alone, and in older age nobody wants to hear that the young have other priorities than you. Including important exams. Nobody wants to hear that they are less important than a test score.
> 
> My foster mother took in kids who didn't have places to stay. When she was studying for her dental hygienist course she put a lamp in a closet and went in there to study, in the far corner of the house.
> She did this for two years.
> 
> I'm sorry, you sound very logical about making your mother wait to come to stay with you, but she is probably scared and stressed out and there is a different paradigm where people do put their loved ones first, and cope with getting a lesser score on exams.
> 
> I could have had 4.0 gpa and got an award, but instead one term I drove 120 miles round trip to a hospital to sit in ICU ward with my boyfriend. I did this for three months, there was only one day I didn't go and that was when I thought his family was coming for a holiday (they didn't.)
> 
> You have your whole life ahead of you. Surely a short part of it could be less than ideal? If your mother is stressed, her health will be even worse, how can you study not knowing if she is okay?
> 
> Older people are like babies if they have dependencies created by old age disability or health, they are going to cry until they get attention, it is a survival instinct. You cannot even say they are being silly or immature, they are just trying to stay alive. Survival instinct has no dignity, fear takes over and erases all polite civilities.


She sounds like a narcissist to me....the MIL!


----------



## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path,
> 
> Next week will be hard because I think that your father will push for you to go back with your husband. I am thinking that in your culture this would make sense as it's considered a bad thing for a woman to be on her own. You will need to be very strong to hold up against such pressure.
> 
> I am sure that there are many women where you live who are in similar situations. I wonder if you could find a way to start a group for some of them so you can support each other.


so the week he is supposed to come is this week. 2 days gone,today is the 3rd day.no word.my mom asked dad when will H Come,he said there are 4days left so let's wait.. Yes,he will tell me to get back with him but i am going to be repeating 'i dont want a man who is friends with s lu ts,who gives time care and attention to many women.he will have to stop that,and i dont want to be with him till he goes to therapy' so then the ball will be on his court.then my dad will have to ask him about the women.and he wont give up the women so my dad will have to accept that this is over. And he will see that this man selected those women over me so i cant be forced to be with him. If i directly say 'i dont want him'then H will say 'i came to work on this,she rejected me' this way, he will have to make a choice and when he does,everybody will see what type of a man he is..
I could not find even 1 divorced woman in my town,but i am thinking about wider area.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Independent

finding-a-path said:


> 'i dont want a man who is friends with s lu ts,who gives time care and attention to many women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Why are you referring to them as slvt?


----------



## turnera

Be creative. Use your resources. Make friends. Be ready to leave no matter what he says, because he will be in full 'get back in control' mode.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

finding-a-path said:


> so the week he is supposed to come is this week. 2 days gone,today is the 3rd day.no word.my mom asked dad when will H Come,he said there are 4days left so let's wait.. Yes,he will tell me to get back with him but i am going to be repeating 'i dont want a man who is friends with s lu ts,who gives time care and attention to many women.he will have to stop that,and i dont want to be with him till he goes to therapy' so then the ball will be on his court.then my dad will have to ask him about the women.and he wont give up the women so my dad will have to accept that this is over. And he will see that this man selected those women over me so i cant be forced to be with him. If i directly say 'i dont want him'then H will say 'i came to work on this,she rejected me' this way, he will have to make a choice and when he does,everybody will see what type of a man he is..
> I could not find even 1 divorced woman in my town,but i am thinking about wider area.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are there, its just not spoken of.


----------



## finding-a-path

spinsterdurga said:


> Why are you referring to them as slvt?


because they are women who change men every few weeks,sometimes few days. And they are half naked all the time (i know it is normal to be wearing less clothes over there but here,no woman wears these type of clothes unless they are hookers.) 1 woman was in the band with him,she used to sing,and then go with a man for the night. i have described about them on previous posts too.and any woman who is trying hard for the attention of a married man is not a respectable woman.and god,these two women are trying so hard.some fb comments show it well. and now they do have his attention.sl ut= sleeps with any1. His own friends confirm this..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Be creative. Use your resources. Make friends. Be ready to leave no matter what he says, because he will be in full 'get back in control' mode.


the problem is,he does not show 'get back in control' mode at all? He behaves like he does not want to do anything related to me.doesnt want to talk,meet etc. Or is that a way to control too..? before,he would get angry and be angry for a month but he would text and call.now nothing at all.so this is new to me..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

BS. He would be GLAD to have you back in his life. As long as you are resigned to being his toy, his property, where you belong. 

Make no mistake.

This is a power play. He can take you or leave you. But he will only take you if you apologize and promise to never speak up again.


----------



## Miss Independent

finding-a-path said:


> because they are women who change men every few weeks,sometimes few days. And they are half naked all the time (i know it is normal to be wearing less clothes over there but here,no woman wears these type of clothes unless they are hookers.) 1 woman was in the band with him,she used to sing,and then go with a man for the night. i have described about them on previous posts too.and any woman who is trying hard for the attention of a married man is not a respectable woman.and god,these two women are trying so hard.some fb comments show it well. and now they do have his attention.sl ut= sleeps with any1. His own friends confirm this..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Then you should also refer to your husband as a man wh0re because based on everything you have written he fits the description of a man wh0re. 


For the record, I come from a third world country that is repressed and oppressive towards woman, but I have never used that language to refer to other woman. When you shame other people don't be surprised/complained when other people will shame you for being a slvt or a divorcee. 

It baffles me that you judge them without knowing them.


----------



## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> BS. He would be GLAD to have you back in his life. As long as you are resigned to being his toy, his property, where you belong.
> 
> Make no mistake.
> 
> This is a power play. He can take you or leave you. But he will only take you if you apologize and promise to never speak up again.


thank you for this.something i did not think about.. I wont apologize.i shall not apologize for requesting his mom to come after the exam.if i did anything wrong,i would apologize.but i was just making my feelings count in a fair way.. So he wont be able to play this game with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

spinsterdurga said:


> Then you should also refer to your husband as a man wh0re because based on everything you have written he fits the description of a man wh0re.
> 
> 
> For the record, I come from a third world country that is repressed and oppressive towards woman, but I have never used that language to refer to other woman. When you shame other people don't be surprised/complained when other people will shame you for being a slvt or a divorcee.
> 
> It baffles me that you judge them without knowing them.


yes.he could be a man wh0re.
I dont know what country you are from,but i also fail to see what is the connection between the country and using the word...?Because you see a wh0re and refuse to use that word for her,i dont think i shall be like that too... their fb pages and his friends confirm this. i have seen her videos. I am not going to see her in bed with men,but what i have seen are enough to understand what type of a woman she is.if i cant see what she is after everything i have seen,i must be stupid..
And no,nobody can call me a sl ut because i dont behave like these women.and there is no shame in getting a divorce..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## finding-a-path

these two women have done enough to prove that they are attention wh0res and sl uts. And yes,from the way they behave,there are no second thoughts in me or my friends about what they are. And as Elegirl once said,i would not want any woman to be this close with my H unless it's mother Theresa! Sl ut or not! He wants friends?we can be friends with other couples.(which he didnt want before) Not single women who sleep around.that is my boundary and i will stand by it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Independent

finding-a-path said:


> yes.he could be a man wh0re.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Why the double standard? He IS a man wh0re based on what you wrote. I'm applying the same logic you used for those women. 




finding-a-path said:


> .
> 
> I dont know what country you are from,but i also fail to see what is the connection between the country and using the word..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I mention the country because you referred to that in you previous post. What I'm saying is that you can't use your culture to justify the fact that you are slvt shaming them on the Internet while you are unable to do that in their face or slvt shame the man who promised to be faithful to you. 




finding-a-path said:


> Because you see a wh0re and refuse to use that word for her,i dont think i shall be like that too...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I refuse to slvt shame other woman. I refuse to be jealous of them. I refuse to have double standards. I also refuse to be DISRESPECTFUL to them. Lastly, I refuse to say things behind people's back. 




finding-a-path said:


> And no,nobody can call me a sl ut because i dont behave like these women.and there is no shame in getting a divorce..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sure, but. People can call you controlling, rude, arrogant, selfish. Someone who can't respect her MIL ect... People can SHAME you for being a divorcee. Why isn't it a shame? Because you say so😒. Those women can use the same premise to defend their actions.


----------



## Miss Independent

finding-a-path said:


> these two women have done enough to prove that they are attention wh0res and sl uts. And yes,from the way they behave,there are no second thoughts in me or my friends about what they are. And as Elegirl once said,i would not want any woman to be this close with my H unless it's mother Theresa! Sl ut or not! He wants friends?we can be friends with other couples.(which he didnt want before) Not single women who sleep around.that is my boundary and i will stand by it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don't care about who your husband is friend with. If I was dating or married to your husband, I would have dumped his sorry butt. I don't put up with bull****. You have every right to ask him not to be friends; however, it's unnecessary to call them wh0res/slvts while no using the same language to refer to your husband.


----------



## finding-a-path

i thought a man wh0re is someone who has affairs with many women? since i do not have the proof i did not use the word.but when i do have the facts,i would not think twice about using the word.
i am not using my culture to justify calling them sl uts. as far as i know a woman who sleeps with anyone is a sl ut in any culture. and whatever culture i would have been from, i would have used the word. who says i cant use the word in their faces? if and when i get a chance, i will use the word in their faces too!!i am not jealous of them. you choose to see a slu t and not call her a slu t.that is your way.i choose to express what i know.
nobody called me those things,but if they did, that would be because they didnt know the truth. and i am calling them sl uts KNOWING the truth.. and what makes you think they would be ashamed? maybe they are proud to be slu ts. i am just saying it as it is.


----------



## turnera

spinsterdurga said:


> Then you should also refer to your husband as a man wh0re because based on everything you have written he fits the description of a man wh0re.
> 
> 
> For the record, I come from a third world country that is repressed and oppressive towards woman, but I have never used that language to refer to other woman. When you shame other people don't be surprised/complained when other people will shame you for being a slvt or a divorcee.
> 
> It baffles me that you judge them without knowing them.


She judges a lot of people. 

And isn't the phrase man wh0re redundant, lol? [ducking]


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> thank you for this.something i did not think about.. I wont apologize.i shall not apologize for requesting his mom to come after the exam.if i did anything wrong,i would apologize.but i was just making my feelings count in a fair way.. So he wont be able to play this game with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Excellent.


----------



## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i thought a man wh0re is someone who has affairs with many women? since i do not have the proof i did not use the word.but when i do have the facts,i would not think twice about using the word.
> i am not using my culture to justify calling them sl uts. as far as i know a woman who sleeps with anyone is a sl ut in any culture. and whatever culture i would have been from, i would have used the word. who says i cant use the word in their faces? if and when i get a chance, i will use the word in their faces too!!i am not jealous of them. you choose to see a slu t and not call her a slu t.that is your way.i choose to express what i know.
> nobody called me those things,but if they did, that would be because they didnt know the truth. and i am calling them sl uts KNOWING the truth.. and what makes you think they would be ashamed? maybe they are proud to be slu ts. i am just saying it as it is.


I think what spinster is trying to say is that you will find a better, more peaceful path in life if you choose not to tear these women (and all your neighbors?) down just to make yourself feel better. That's an endless, hopeless circle from which you can never emerge victorious. Take the high road and just decide not to judge anyone. Just know what YOU will and won't accept - like a cheating husband and work off of that.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> She judges a lot of people.
> 
> And isn't the phrase man wh0re redundant, lol? [ducking]


i don't have to "judge" when i see the facts in front of me.i only say this person is like that, that person is like that AFTER i observe their behaviors. since you have not seen their behaviors, you might think i judge without facts but i have seen how they act. i observe then i decide. if you see a person who is drunk and can't stand straight, is blabbing, would you say "that person is drunk" or would you not say it because it is "judging".... ?

we all see how others talk, act etc and then decide what type of a person someone is right? 

if i see a man helping a blind person cross the road everyday and i decide this man is "kind to the blind man" would you say i judged him without facts?


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## turnera

You're missing the point. You're welcome to think whatever you want about people. We all do. We all make judgments. But when you USE those judgments to justify this or that action, you run the risk of, well, being wrong. Or making wrong decisions. Like with your neighbors. You are so sure they're all worthless because of what you've observed. But you never got to know them, did you? You never learned the 'other' side of their personalities, or why they became that way, or what their struggles are. They could just as easily look at you and 'judge' that you're self-righteous, arrogant, and a snob. But that wouldn't be true, would it?


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## Blossom Leigh

Great point Turnera.

I judged my birth dad for years based on the angry stories that came from my mother. It wasn't until I started studying natural horsemanship where the concepts of "they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care", "I want my horse to WANT to be in my space, so who do I need to be to become that safe place" "Look at it from the horses view point" etc because to sink in and after decades I finally asked my birth dad his side of the story and it changed everything. We have built an amazing relationship since then.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> I think what spinster is trying to say is that you will find a better, more peaceful path in life if you choose not to tear these women (and all your neighbors?) down just to make yourself feel better. That's an endless, hopeless circle from which you can never emerge victorious. Take the high road and just decide not to judge anyone. Just know what YOU will and won't accept - like a cheating husband and work off of that.


i will find a better more peaceful path in life if i choose to stay quite about it even though i know they are women with low standards?i am not "non-peaceful" (sorry don't know the word to use) because of me voicing that they are slu ts.

i just observed them and mentioned here that they are slu ts so that all of you would know WHY i object to him being associated with these women.

other than that, i don't care how many men they sleep with or how short their skirts are. their life, their choices. and seeing a slu t and calling her a slu t does not make myself feel better. i am not a person who needs to compare myself with others to feel better.





when selecting people to be friends with, would you select people who sleep around a lot, people who does not care about others, murderers, drug addicts etc or would you select people with high moral standards...?







if you see that a person has been made guilty for murder/rape/drug use, would you be using the words "murderer/rapist/drug addict" when describing about them to others or would you not use those words because that would be judging? 




i saw how they act, i read the comments, i have enough photo,video and comment evidence to see what they are.





about the neighbors, i posted a detailed description of WHY we don't want to be "friends" with them some time ago. i will describe again.1st let's take a family who lives near my parents house.they put out all their dirty water to the public road and we can't get to our home without walking on that path.our feet gets wet with all the dirty water. then my mother asked them to stop doing it. this mother daughter duo came out and started screaming "your daughter is barren, you take care of that,don't come to talk about our water blah blah" 

then let's talk about 80% of the people in this village. when they meet others face to face, they would smile and then go to the grocery shop and gossip there saying "did you see so and so?his/her dress was old blah blah" i ve heard it even though i don't engage in it.

would you be friends with these type of people? 

again, i did not assume, i did not judge without facts, i got the impressions about people AFTER i saw,i heard.i am not a "politically correct" person. i see,i say. i don't judge without facts, i don't laugh at people with disabilities(i have seen others do it in this village) i just observe and come to conclusions about people.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> You're missing the point. You're welcome to think whatever you want about people. We all do. We all make judgments. But when you USE those judgments to justify this or that action, you run the risk of, well, being wrong. Or making wrong decisions. Like with your neighbors. You are so sure they're all worthless because of what you've observed. But you never got to know them, did you? You never learned the 'other' side of their personalities, or why they became that way, or what their struggles are. They could just as easily look at you and 'judge' that you're self-righteous, arrogant, and a snob. But that wouldn't be true, would it?




ok.. so we both agree that we all make judgements, when those are based on hearsay those could be wrong,but when we ourselves observe and decide then those are more accurate, right...?



you have mentioned "when you USE those judgments to justify this or that action" please, can you explain further? the judgement was that they are slu ts, but which action did i justify with the judgement? sorry, can't understand yet.. please, if you can explain more..?


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Like with your neighbors. You are so sure they're all worthless because of what you've observed. But you never got to know them, did you? You never learned the 'other' side of their personalities, or why they became that way, or what their struggles are. They could just as easily look at you and 'judge' that you're self-righteous, arrogant, and a snob. But that wouldn't be true, would it?


ok.. imagine that you are childfree and your neighbors and you were having an argument, in the middle of it they shout "hey don't come talking here about our faults, you are barren" what would you do? 

how would you learn other side of their personalities, or why they became that way, or what their struggles are? would you just forgive them when you hear them saying "she is barren" 70% of the time when they walk by? and would you try to be friends with them? when they spit to the ground when they see you?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Great point Turnera.
> 
> I judged my birth dad for years based on the angry stories that came from my mother. It wasn't until I started studying natural horsemanship where the concepts of "they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care", "I want my horse to WANT to be in my space, so who do I need to be to become that safe place" "Look at it from the horses view point" etc because to sink in and after decades I finally asked my birth dad his side of the story and it changed everything. We have built an amazing relationship since then.


"I judged my birth dad for years based on the angry stories that came from my mother"

that is not the right thing to do. before forming an opinion about anyone/anything close observation is needed. if you form an opinion based on other people's opinions, you will be forming a one sided opinion. any evaluation needs to take the 360 degree approach. you have to hear with your own ears, see with your own eyes, then only you can form the impression. (but i don't mean you have to see the murder being committed to judge someone as a murderer) 

me, i have seen videos, comments, photos, what other people say, everything before deciding what type of women these women are..


hopefully, i am communicating what i want to say,using my limited English


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## turnera

Well, first, I would shut up and listen to them. Then I would ask them why they think what they think. Then I'd ask them about their lives. People just want to be liked. It's human nature. It's human nature to discredit people we don't know, and to gravitate toward people who are like us, and disparage people who aren't. 

I say hello to everyone I meet. I give money to beggars even though I know they could really be well off - I figure if they're in a bad enough shape to be willing to stand on a corner with their handout, they're worse off than me. I watch people intently to try to see who they really are, behind whatever mask they've created (like we all do). I watch for weaknesses, struggles, in people and ask myself how I can make their lives better - be it just smiling at them or acknowledging them, or talking to them, or even helping them. I once saw a boy walking down the road every morning at 6am and I finally stopped and asked him if he needed a ride; turns out he was walking to high school 10 miles away because his family's car broke and he had no other way to get to school; he had considered dropping out of school and I was able to talk him out of it. You just never know what's going on with the people around you, but I can guarantee that nearly every single one of them is NOT a psychopath and therefore is just like you or me - wanting to be liked, heard, understood, and even if they aren't like me, I'll still make an effort to just smile at them, if not more.


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## Blossom Leigh

My point was fap... when I changed to wanting to know more about his side of his personal story... everything changed between us.


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## EleGirl

Path,
I get both sides of this current discussion.

If I tried talking to my neighbor and they made comments like your neighbors do, if they spit when I walked by, I would not give them the time of day. Anyone who responds to me like that can take a hike. 

When you walk by and someone spits on the ground to show contempt, what exactly would I say to them to turn this around? Start just talking about the weather and asking them about how their day is going? Really? 

I do know some men and women who I have called slvts and [email protected] because of their behavior and chosen life style. It’s not shaming them. They are proud of their behavior. These are just descriptive terms. So in some context I don’t have a problem with the terms being used as long as they are equally applied to men and women for the same type of behavior.

I also get that you are upset about your husband’s behavior and him hanging out with and dating these women. Your reaction is very normal. You are the one who sees what they post on Facebook, you see their photos and know some about them from people. We don’t. But most of all you know that your husband wants to spend time with these women instead of you. You are angry. So I get that calling them slvts, etc is also you venting.

But I think you would be well served to tone it down a bit, especially when/if this talk with your husband and your father happens. Why? Because if you start calling those women these names, the conversation will turn to your husband defending them. That’s not what you want. You do not want the conversation focused on the names you call people. Instead you want your father to see your husband insisting that he can hang out with women, date women, etc. 

If the posts on Facebook are really as bad as you say they are, get screenshots and take them with you. You can hand these to your father. Just tell him that he can see and make up his own mind. But don’t you do any name calling. It only will make you look bad.

Would you be any happier if your husband was hanging out with and dating women who dressed more modestly and did not carry on as you say these women do? Nope, you would not be any happier about this. Your issues are not how these women live their lives and dress. Your issues are that your husband dating and hanging around with other women. Another issue is that he wants you to move from your home to some rental so that you can be subservient to his mother and him.


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## EleGirl

By the way. I'd love to see how these women are dressing. You keep saying that women here dress like them, but I'm not quite so sure.


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## Blossom Leigh

Something dawns on me. Because divorce rates are so low in your country, your husband is calling whatever terms he like because he has massive societal support to force you to accept them. All he gas to do is wait you out, call people around you to apply pressure knowing they will, and let them "handle" you for him.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Well, first, I would shut up and listen to them. i will not stay shut till they say these things.i am not that patient...Then I would ask them why they think what they thinki do not care why they say these things at all.they are commenting about a woman's childfree status without knowing the facts,why do they care if i have kids or not? none of their business... still they choose to comment and be negative.so i leave them to live their negative lives.of course when someone asks "why are you not having kids" i explain. but these, they shout "hey you are barren". Then I'd ask them about their lives. i do not want to waste time on people with such narrow views..People just want to be liked. It's human nature. It's human nature to discredit people we don't know, and to gravitate toward people who are like us, and disparage people who aren't.
> 
> I say hello to everyone I meet. that is nice..me.., i do not say hello.i just smile. I give money to beggars even though I know they could really be well off - I figure if they're in a bad enough shape to be willing to stand on a corner with their handout, they're worse off than me.me too.i always give I watch people intently to try to see who they really are, behind whatever mask they've created (like we all do). I watch for weaknesses, struggles, in people and ask myself how I can make their lives better - be it just smiling at them or acknowledging them, or talking to them, or even helping them. I once saw a boy walking down the road every morning at 6am and I finally stopped and asked him if he needed a ride; turns out he was walking to high school 10 miles away because his family's car broke and he had no other way to get to school; he had considered dropping out of school and I was able to talk him out of it.that is sweet of you.it's always nice to be able to help someone in a good way You just never know what's going on with the people around you, but I can guarantee that nearly every single one of them is NOT a psychopath and therefore is just like you or me - wanting to be liked, heard, understood, and even if they aren't like me, I'll still make an effort to just smile at them, if not more.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path,
> I get both sides of this current discussion.
> 
> If I tried talking to my neighbor and they made comments like your neighbors do, if they spit when I walked by, I would not give them the time of day. Anyone who responds to me like that can take a hike. exactly.these kind of nosy people have no place in my life..
> 
> When you walk by and someone spits on the ground to show contempt, what exactly would I say to them to turn this around? Start just talking about the weather and asking them about how their day is going? Really? and they do it just because i don't have kids.lol.i don't have any because i don't want.they think there is some "defect" in me.i laugh it off because i know i am childfree by choice. but imagine if they did that to a person who wanted kids but could not have them for medical reasons?how hurt would the person feel? they are shunning a person because that person can't have kids.says a lot about them.
> 
> I do know some men and women who I have called slvts and [email protected] because of their behavior and chosen life style. It’s not shaming them. They are proud of their behavior. These are just descriptive terms. So in some context I don’t have a problem with the terms being used as long as they are equally applied to men and women for the same type of behavior.great!!
> 
> I also get that you are upset about your husband’s behavior and him hanging out with and dating these women. Your reaction is very normal. You are the one who sees what they post on Facebook, you see their photos and know some about them from people. We don’t. But most of all you know that your husband wants to spend time with these women instead of you. You are angry. So I get that calling them slvts, etc is also you venting.
> 
> But I think you would be well served to tone it down a bit, especially when/if this talk with your husband and your father happens. Why? Because if you start calling those women these names, the conversation will turn to your husband defending them. That’s not what you want. You do not want the conversation focused on the names you call people. Instead you want your father to see your husband insisting that he can hang out with women, date women, etc. spot on!! yes.i am going to give the choice to him.and let my father hear him saying he can hang out with women, date women, etc.
> 
> If the posts on Facebook are really as bad as you say they are, get screenshots and take them with you. You can hand these to your father. Just tell him that he can see and make up his own mind. But don’t you do any name calling. It only will make you look bad.my mother has seen,my father refuses to see
> 
> Would you be any happier if your husband was hanging out with and dating women who dressed more modestly and did not carry on as you say these women do? Nope, you would not be any happier about this. i would be calm knowing that he is just having a friendship and the women are not waiting to jump to bed with them.respectable women.all the wives of his band mates are respectable.and yet he had to go and make a friendship with these women.i wonder whyYour issues are not how these women live their lives and dress. of course.i would not care two cents about how they are living if my H was not involvedYour issues are that your husband dating and hanging around with other women. correctAnother issue is that he wants you to move from your home to some rental so that you can be subservient to his mother and him.yes.that is the issue that started all of this.the mother's issue.but now i feel like even though he left saying "i am leaving because you didn't treat my mother well" he wanted to hang around these women and do whatever and behave single and that was part of the reason he left.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> By the way. I'd love to see how these women are dressing. You keep saying that women here dress like them, but I'm not quite so sure.


i would love to show you pics. imagine a 75KG woman in a black dress. strapless dress which shows half of her breasts and the dress is so short that it just covers her panties. and a full face of makeup. in short imagine how street hook.ers dress and that's how they dress.


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## turnera

> exactly.these kind of nosy people have no place in my life..


Normally, I'd say have at it - ignore people who aren't 'good enough' for you. But you constantly state that you live alone, have no friends, have no support, and may in fact be forced to live with him because of those reasons. So I would say that just maybe they CAN be worth getting to know. And given your obvious disdain for people, is it possible they treat you that way because of how YOU have treated THEM?

But, you're gonna do what you're gonna do, and you obviously think you are better than most of the people around you, so, do whatever you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't end up getting what you want. Or end up growing old all alone because no one is good enough to be your friend.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> i would love to show you pics. imagine a 75KG woman in a black dress. strapless dress which shows half of her breasts and the dress is so short that it just covers her panties. and a full face of makeup. in short imagine how street hook.ers dress and that's how they dress.


These are women in the clubs he plays at, correct?

Here, EVERYone dresses like that in the clubs. And almost NONE of them are hookers and almost none of them will steal women's husbands. It's just what you wear to go clubbing.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Normally, I'd say have at it - ignore people who aren't 'good enough' for you. But you constantly state that you live alone, have no friends, have no support, no,i do not live alone.i have friends --both school friends and work friends--,4-5 friends at work, 2 friends from school days.2 friends i got to know from facebook are supporting me apart from people here.what i said is that i do not have any DIVORCED friends and may in fact be forced to live with him because of those reasons.i never said that... So I would say that just maybe they CAN be worth getting to know. as you said you would talk with people even after they shout "hey you are barren" but i don't. And given your obvious disdain for people, no.i don't have disdain of people who are respectable and friendly. i don't care if they are married/divorced poor/rich young/old just as long as they are people with some ethicsis it possible they treat you that way because of how YOU have treated THEM?i did not do anything to them.i was smiling with them everyday.and one day my mother argued with them about the dirty water on the common road and they decided to shout "hey don't come to find fault with us,your daughter is faulty,she is barren"
> 
> But, you're gonna do what you're gonna do, and you obviously think you are better than most of the people around you, so, do whatever you want. i am better than people who shout "hey you are barren" because i dont do it.i try to mind my own business and live a peaceful life.i am not nosy. and i do not want to be associated with nosy people Just don't be surprised if you don't end up getting what you want. Or end up growing old all alone because no one is good enough to be your friend.


no one is good enough to be my friend? i never said so and you are judging me..do you think all the people in the country are like the people i described? no, there are plenty of good people too.so i don't have to be afraid that i ll be alone and try to hang with those neighbors in fear that i ll have no one to hang around with!!


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## turnera

Whatever. You know your own situation.


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> These are women in the clubs he plays at, correct?
> 
> Here, EVERYone dresses like that in the clubs. And almost NONE of them are hookers and almost none of them will steal women's husbands. It's just what you wear to go clubbing.


the woman who is in the band.


yes. i know. HERE NO ONE dresses like that unless they are the hookers or women who are going to the clubs to get a man for the night. now you see the difference hopefully..


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Whatever. You know your own situation.


yes.i know my situation and it surprises me that you would recommend me to talk with those neighbors even after i explained the way they treated me.... why? just why...?:scratchhead:


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## EleGirl

Path,
There have been times in my life when rumors were circulated about me acting slvty. Why? Because I always had a lot of male friend when I was younger. In high school guys would come to my house to visit me or I’d go out with them. This was something that happened daily. Sometimes I’d do things like go skiing, or swimming, etc with a group of guys. Now I never had sex with these guys or fooled around sexually. We were just friends.

But that did not stop the neighbors from gossiping. I found out that the neighbors were all saying that I was a slvt and having sex with all these guys. Then they started a rumor that I was pregnant. Boy was I angry. It was just a bunch of ugly minded neighbors who had nothing better to do then to call me names and spread hateful gossip. 

My point is that just because people tell you that these women sleep with many men does not mean that they do. Be very careful of gossip because it’s often based on a small amount of truth and a HUGE dosage of imagination.


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## turnera

finding-a-path said:


> yes.i know my situation and it surprises me that you would recommend me to talk with those neighbors even after i explained the way they treated me.... why? just why...?:scratchhead:


Because that's how I choose to live my life - giving others the benefit of the doubt that they are humans, too, and have reasons for feeling spite toward you. And choosing to want to be nicer to people who treat me badly so as to give them reason to change their mind. All you do by walking past them with your nose in the air is prove them right.

If I knew someone felt that much spite toward me, I would want to know why, and if it was something that I did to warrant it. And if it was something I did to warrant it, I would want to change that about myself. 

I have to say that you seem incredibly proud of yourself and proud of your station in life. It's a safe bet that others around you - especially people who are not as fortunate as you to have an education, a career, a home of your own - feel that you consider yourself better than them, given the way you talk about people. When I see someone who thinks they're better than me, I end up not liking them very much. Maybe that's what they're experiencing. But you'll never know, because you refuse to speak to anyone unless they treat you well.


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## Canon in D

Finding, I understand certain culture frown at women who do not bear children to carry on the family line, how women who "expose" themselves are seen as indecent, that educated women are not good as they will argue and talk about rights, that women should respect their elders, keep their mouth shut and serve her family with the husband as the head of the household. It's also easy for the others who are simple or not exposed to the world to see you as the rebel who is educated and chose to not have kids and dislike you for not "behaving" the way it should be for them. 

What I don't understand is (may be I didn't notice you had answered in the previous posts) why do you not have any friends? Friends from school, from the past, friends from another town that you can write or call and talk to.


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## EleGirl

EleGirl said:


> Would you be any happier if your husband was hanging out with and dating women who dressed more modestly and did not carry on as you say these women do? Nope, you would not be any happier about this. Your issues are not how these women live their lives and dress. Your issues are that your husband dating and hanging around with other women. Another issue is that he wants you to move from your home to some rental so that you can be subservient to his mother and him.


Path, you completely misunderstood what I was saying in the above paragraph. I was not saying that these women who dressed more modestly were 'respectable' women. I just said that they dressed more modestly and did not carry on like the women your husband is hanging out with. 

This could be a woman who dresses modestly but was having a secret affair with your husband. You would be very upset if this was going on... just as upset as you are now.

You need to stop focusing on the way these women dress and what you preserve as them behaving promiscuously. The real problem you have is with your husband spending time and dating other women (or woman). Your real problem is with your husband. These women never promised you anything. They owe you nothing. It's your husband who has broken a very serious promise he made to you. He's the one who is hurting you.

If it was not those women with the band, it would be some other women. He just wants to hang out with and date other women. 

Often when a spouse has an affair, the betrayed spouse tends to focus their anger at the affair partner. For some reason it's just easier to be angry at the affair partner then it is to be angry at one's own spouse. It's easier to think that someone stole your spouse then to think that your spouse has purposely chosen to hurt you in this way. 

Focus on your husband, not these women.


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## Miss Independent

My aunt was hated by her ex MIL and complained that MIL was evil. I used to believe her BUT after living with her, I understood why her MIL didn't like her. 

I have midterm, so I wasn't able to read/comment yesterday. After reading what you said about your neighbor, I'd love to hear your husband and mother in law's side. 

When you said that your neighbors made fun of you for being childless, you forgot to mention that she was arguing with your mother. That tells me that you say what other people do but don't mention what you do. 

For instance, you keep focusing on the fact that your husband left you because he wanted to text immoral women; however, you don't mention that you forbid him to look at video by women. 


My other aunt was called a wh0re because she divorced a man who wanted to take another wife. Sorry, you won't be the exception to the rule. People will judge you the same way you judge others. 
What goes around comes around. 

Good luck you're going to need it!


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## finding-a-path

turnera said:


> Because that's how I choose to live my life - giving others the benefit of the doubt that they are humans, too, and have reasons for feeling spite toward you. And choosing to want to be nicer to people who treat me badly so as to give them reason to change their mind. All you do by walking past them with your nose in the air is prove them right.
> 
> If I knew someone felt that much spite toward me, I would want to know why, and if it was something that I did to warrant it. And if it was something I did to warrant it, I would want to change that about myself.
> 
> I have to say that you seem incredibly proud of yourself and proud of your station in life. It's a safe bet that others around you - especially people who are not as fortunate as you to have an education, a career, a home of your own - feel that you consider yourself better than them, given the way you talk about people. When I see someone who thinks they're better than me, I end up not liking them very much. Maybe that's what they're experiencing. But you'll never know, because you refuse to speak to anyone unless they treat you well.


i understand and respect your choice of trying to talk and be friendly with people who would shout things at you.. But i do not want to do that. When someone is abusive,i dont want to try and talk with them in hope that they will change.
I know why they feel that much spite towards me.because i didnt do what they did.because i am not like them by not having kids.and i do not want to change that about myself just to be accepted by them. Before my mother asked them not to put the dirty water on the common road,they did not say this.my mom asked,they wanted something to attack with,and they selected to say that i am barren.i accept it that they want to be this way.it is their choice.i dont try to change them.that change will come when they themselves see that they dont need to comment in public about other people's private matters.i try to be distant from them.. And that is my way. I want to surround myself with good people.rich or poor,young or old,healthy or sick, educated or not,black or white these dont matter.just good people who dont want to shout 'she is barren', who do not steal,who help elders and animals etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

Canon in D said:


> Finding, I understand certain culture frown at women who do not bear children to carry on the family line, how women who "expose" themselves are seen as indecent, that educated women are not good as they will argue and talk about rights, that women should respect their elders, keep their mouth shut and serve her family with the husband as the head of the household. It's also easy for the others who are simple or not exposed to the world to see you as the rebel who is educated and chose to not have kids and dislike you for not "behaving" the way it should be for them.
> 
> What I don't understand is (may be I didn't notice you had answered in the previous posts) why do you not have any friends? Friends from school, from the past, friends from another town that you can write or call and talk to.


your understanding is correct. Everything you mentioned is correct.
No dear.i have many friends. From work,from school and even friends on facebook who help me,who talk with me. I just dont have any divorced friends.because divorce is treated as a bad thing here and women cling to the marriage no matter how bad the husbands are..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path, you completely misunderstood what I was saying in the above paragraph. I was not saying that these women who dressed more modestly were 'respectable' women. I just said that they dressed more modestly and did not carry on like the women your husband is hanging out with.
> 
> This could be a woman who dresses modestly but was having a secret affair with your husband. You would be very upset if this was going on... just as upset as you are now.
> 
> You need to stop focusing on the way these women dress and what you preserve as them behaving promiscuously. The real problem you have is with your husband spending time and dating other women (or woman). Your real problem is with your husband. These women never promised you anything. They owe you nothing. It's your husband who has broken a very serious promise he made to you. He's the one who is hurting you.
> 
> If it was not those women with the band, it would be some other women. He just wants to hang out with and date other women.
> 
> Often when a spouse has an affair, the betrayed spouse tends to focus their anger at the affair partner. For some reason it's just easier to be angry at the affair partner then it is to be angry at one's own spouse. It's easier to think that someone stole your spouse then to think that your spouse has purposely chosen to hurt you in this way.
> 
> Focus on your husband, not these women.


oh!sorry.i didnt understand that.yes.that would make me just as upset as i am now. Yes..he is the one who broke the vows.if it is not this woman,it will be some other woman..thank you for that new side. I didnt see it that way before..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

spinsterdurga said:


> My aunt was hated by her ex MIL and complained that MIL was evil. I used to believe her BUT after living with her, I understood why her MIL didn't like her.
> 
> I have midterm, so I wasn't able to read/comment yesterday. After reading what you said about your neighbor, I'd love to hear your husband and mother in law's side.
> 
> When you said that your neighbors made fun of you for being childless, you forgot to mention that she was arguing with your mother. That tells me that you say what other people do but don't mention what you do.
> 
> For instance, you keep focusing on the fact that your husband left you because he wanted to text immoral women; however, you don't mention that you forbid him to look at video by women.
> 
> 
> My other aunt was called a wh0re because she divorced a man who wanted to take another wife. Sorry, you won't be the exception to the rule. People will judge you the same way you judge others.
> What goes around comes around.
> 
> Good luck you're going to need it!


just because you lived with your aunt and found out that why her MIL didnt like her, you assume i must be like her too..? Yes.my MIL hates me.why?because i requested that her month löng visit be after my exam. no,i did not 'forget' to mentiön that my mother was arguing.(it is in my past posts,and that woman choose to shout 'she is barren'when my mother requested that they dont throw the dirty water to the road,because we had to walk through the water they use to clean the pots and pans,wash clothes etc.what would you do if someone said that about you when your mom was requesting them not to throw the dirty water?) and i did not forget to say about the video.if i forgot,u wouldnt know about it.
As i have said,i dont care about the ones who judge me,i just stay away.turnera asked why i am not friends with them so i was just explaining it to her.i know turnera must be someone who sees good in every person,that is good and sweet but i just try to stay away from those people and try to focus on my life,family,friends and job. People can say anything.i dont try to stop them,i cant change them,so i just stay distant and live life.i do not know why they judge like that.maybe it makes them happy?for whatever reason they do it.and it is their lives their choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jin

You said you have chosen to not have children. What is your husbands position on this? Have you talked about it?


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## Miss Independent

finding-a-path said:


> just because you lived with your aunt and found out that why her MIL didnt like her, you assume i must be like her too..?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yes. I assume that based and what I have read in your thread. 




finding-a-path said:


> Yes.my MIL hates me.why?because i requested that her month löng visit be after my exam.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



According to you. 




finding-a-path said:


> no,i did not 'forget' to mentiön that my mother was arguing.(it is in my past posts,and that woman choose to shout 'she is barren'when my mother requested that they dont throw the dirty water to the road,because we had to walk through the water they use to clean the pots and pans,wash clothes etc.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
My bad. You BRIEFLY mentioned it. Unless she is mentally unstable, I don't believe that your mother said "Mrs. W can you not throw water because I don't want my shoes to get ruin/ don't want to walk on them" and she replied "your daughter is barren" . 

My point is you keep focusing on what other people do and not on what YOU do. Why aren't you concern with your fathers actions. Those women aren't in your life, yet you worry about them. Instead of worrying about the fact that your father wants you to stay married to a [potential] cheater? 

Again worry about YOU and not others. Build YOURSELF up instead of wasting time on TEARING others down. 





finding-a-path said:


> what would you do if someone said that about you when your mom was requesting them not to throw the dirty water?)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/
> 
> I would have been the one to ask them not to throw dirty water. If someone said I was barren and should worry about that, I wouldn't have been hurt or mad. I have been called so many things that I wouldn't care.
> 
> Actually, making fun of someone who is barren says more about the person making fun than the one who is barren.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finding-a-path said:
> 
> 
> 
> and i did not forget to say about the video.if i forgot,u wouldnt know about it.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I meant that you forgot to keep mentioning it. You keep saying that he left you because you didn't want him to have immoral friends. I'm sorry but I don't believe that it's the ONLY reason why he left. Again my point is that you mention what others do, but not what you do (did). You should also worry about the fact that you're controlling instead of worrying about how long/ short someone's skirt is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finding-a-path said:
> 
> 
> 
> why they judge like that.maybe it makes them happy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you judge those women because it makes you happy. That makes sense.
Click to expand...


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## finding-a-path

jin said:


> You said you have chosen to not have children. What is your husbands position on this? Have you talked about it?


we both talked about it before marriage and agreed on it. for 8 years he was ok with it. in fact he was happy that he gets time to practice and sleep..


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## finding-a-path

spinsterdurga said:


> Yes. I assume that based and what I have read in your thread.
> 
> assume all you want, but i am not your aunt
> 
> 
> 
> According to you.
> 
> 
> yes.in all the threads, people post replies knowing about the situation according to the OP. i have been truthful in every post
> 
> 
> My bad. You BRIEFLY mentioned it.no, i mentioned it in full Unless she is mentally unstable, I don't believe that your mother said "Mrs. W can you not throw water because I don't want my shoes to get ruin/ don't want to walk on them" and she replied "your daughter is barren" . my mom said don't throw dirty water, she said "dont try to find our faults,your daughter is faulty,she is barren,you go take care of that
> 
> My point is you keep focusing on what other people do and not on what YOU do. as i aid, i dont focus on them,i described them to turneraWhy aren't you concern with your fathers actions. Those women aren't in your life, yet you worry about them. Instead of worrying about the fact that your father wants you to stay married to a [potential] cheater? i mentioned it here because i do worry about my father's actions
> 
> Again worry about YOU and not others. Build YOURSELF up instead of wasting time on TEARING others down. no, i am not tearing others down, i just described why i am not friends with them, to turnera. because she encouraged me to be friends with these neighbors, i explained to her why i don't want to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finding-a-path said:
> 
> 
> 
> what would you do if someone said that about you when your mom was requesting them not to throw the dirty water?)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/
> 
> I would have been the one to ask them not to throw dirty water. If someone said I was barren and should worry about that, I wouldn't have been hurt or mad. I have been called so many things that I wouldn't care. so, i should be like you and not care and smile and talk like nothing happened? no i would not.again, i don't care whatever they say. when i saw that they are like this i just distanced myself.that is all. i don't take it to heart or worry
> 
> Actually, making fun of someone who is barren says more about the person making fun than the one who is barren.
> 
> that's what i said.so since it says more about the person making fun, i decided i dont want to be friends with them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I meant that you forgot to keep mentioning it. You keep saying that he left you because you didn't want him to have immoral friends. I'm sorry but I don't believe that it's the ONLY reason why he left.you can read the reasons in my previous posts. Again my point is that you mention what others do, but not what you do (did). i did. i said i requested her to come after the examYou should also worry about the fact that you're controlling instead of worrying about how long/ short someone's skirt is. i am not worried about that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you judge those women because it makes you happy. That makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> no i didn't judge, i came to a decision after observing the facts, which you are not doing.
Click to expand...


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## jin

finding-a-path said:


> we both talked about it before marriage and agreed on it. for 8 years he was ok with it. in fact he was happy that he gets time to practice and sleep..


For 8 years he was okay with it but then he changed his mind?

The reason I ask is because my wife decided of her own accord she was not going to have any more children. It was devastating for me and was the beginning of the end of our marriage.

It is possible your husband looks down on you and does not see you as a good wife given you do not wish to have children. He himself may not care/want children but in his mind he may be using this as justification for not respecting you or wanting to be with you. If you dont have children its not a real marriage in his mind.

The MIL would also have a strong view on this I would suspect.


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## finding-a-path

jin said:


> For 8 years he was okay with it but then he changed his mind?
> 
> The reason I ask is because my wife decided of her own accord she was not going to have any more children. It was devastating for me and was the beginning of the end of our marriage.
> 
> It is possible your husband looks down on you and does not see you as a good wife given you do not wish to have children. He himself may not care/want children but in his mind he may be using this as justification for not respecting you or wanting to be with you. If you dont have children its not a real marriage in his mind.
> 
> The MIL would also have a strong view on this I would suspect.


he was happy about it for 8 years.then on April 23rd, when the MIL screamed at me saying 'what matters to you?exam or me? I want to come when i want,you told me not to come because it is your house,i will never come again' etc she also said 'you dont even have kids.so why cant i come' i think maybe she meant that since there are no kids,i shall be ready to take care of her. Then she has told the same thing to my H. Then,after he decided to leave,he said 'i want to have a kid because my mother desires to cuddle with a kid' i was so surprised that my jaw dropped.i asked why he never said that before.he said he changed now. Yes,he is using that reason to justify leaving.and the MIL is the one who created a need for a kid which was not there before.. She told me 'by your age you should be having 2 kids because by your age i was having 2 kids,you focus on the job and dont want kids and u dont want to take care of me too' yes,MIL Knew we were going to be childfree before we got married.she was ok.she said 'if you cant take care of them,dont have them'(reason we decided not to have kids is because i leave home 6am and return at 6pm,he leaves at 4pm and returns at 3am,we get to spend only 2-3 nights together in a week ,no time to give to care for a kid and we did not want a maid to raise our kids) but during the argument on april 23rd,she decided to use it as a point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finding-a-path

so.. on Nov 4th we complained to the police.. we said that he has left the house and not giving us the address etc.. policeman called husband... and told him to come on 6th.husband has called the policeman and changed the date later.so we were advised to come on 12th. on 4th, after police called him, he sent me a text saying he wants to try to settle... then he sent me an email containing his "list of conditions"... following were on the list

1 he will not share facebook password,i will not be allowed to touch his phone,computer.

2 he will go and work abroad for 5 years

3 he will have female friends (the woman who made curry for him and her friends) he will meet them when he goes to drink and will socialize with them

4 he will drink and smoke (this from the man who gave up both before marriage)

5 he will put on earrings, turn his body in to a tattoo art 

6 he will go out to drink whenever he wants

7 he will want a kid (this from the man who was childfree for 8 years and who said he likes the freedom of not having kids so that he can practice,sleep etc)

8 i will have to talk about any problem/issue and he will solve it only if he wants

9 earlier, we did not calculate percentages when sharing expenses.he paid more because he earns 4 times as much as me.now he wants us to share equally. (it was later said that he will give the rest of the money to his mother)


so... i said ok to drinking,smoking,tattoos etc and we could not come to a solution about some thins on the list.


then on 12th, we went to the police,he came with his mother.
the policeman asked what the problem is and he said "she suspects me so i cant be with her" i was like WHAT??. then i said about the mothers problem and the video issue... 

policeman said everything must be open between husband and wife, there shall be no secrets, then there is nothing to suspect about etc....i said i didn't have anything to suspect, it was agreed before marriage that we will have transparency etc


he said he wants to separate because he wants to work abroad, because he cant give passwords etc....

it seems the biggest problem is that he cant remove that woman and her friends from facebook and his life...her comments about his stomach, saying "i ll tell you when i meet you" etc in comments,making curries for him,talking about what they will eat next time etc has shown that she does not respect his married status, yet he refuses to put his marriage before this woman...


and the talk about going abroad, kid etc are just covering the facts that he does not want to give up these women,and that he wants to be with his mother. 


the mother did not talk with me. 

so.. the policeman told husband to think about this more and come on 23rd. 


i think i already know his answer.


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## Canon in D

I'm sorry, finding. He is telling you he wants you out of his life. Don't waste your time with him.


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## finding-a-path

Canon in D said:


> I'm sorry, finding. He is telling you he wants you out of his life. Don't waste your time with him.


i thought that too...these "conditions" are designed to break the marriage... not to try to settle!

if there was any love left,he would take my feelings in to account too.. but these are just so partial...

truth is he stopped loving me when i asked his mother to come after the exam and she encouraged him to come to her and he went....the stopping the love part is connected to his bipolar i guess... he has told me before that when someone doesn't do what he wants, he puts up an emotional wall..


anyway, i am sad.for me, for him,for our marriage...but im determined to find happiness.


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## EleGirl

You are right. The conditions are to break the marriage. That's what he wants.

I'm surprised that the police where you live get involved like counselors and marriage negotiators.

For your own well being, can you end this negotiation with the police and just file for divorce? Do you have his address yet?


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> You are right. The conditions are to break the marriage. That's what he wants.
> 
> I'm surprised that the police where you live get involved like counselors and marriage negotiators.
> 
> For your own well being, can you end this negotiation with the police and just file for divorce? Do you have his address yet?


We will have to go to the police on 23rd and see what they will say... we want the copy of the complaint to file for divorce.. most likely, the police is trying to settle because divorce is a lengthy process here. it can take 3-4 years... 


he gave the address to the police.so we can obtain it once the police is satisfied that they cant do anything to settle this...



i emailed him about this trying to settle thing and he said he has no feelings for me.... can feelings just go away like that ? or is it he is blocking those with the emotional wall? (asking this for closure for me... because i don't think feelings can just vanish because i requested his mother to come later and because she told him things painting me as the bad guy for 4 months....)


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## finding-a-path

i just read an email from him.he says "i was trying to settle,but because you went to police,i cant"


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## EleGirl

Oh, he's just full of BS. He's just using you going to police as an excuse.

You could always answer something like this:

I was hoping to fix our marriage, but you left and would not even tell me where you live now. So the only way to find you was to go to the police.

Put it back on him.


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## finding-a-path

On Sunday, we went to the police. he came and said "i don't want to come home" the policeman advised us to file the case.. so... now we can get started on the divorce process. i am just trying to handle the range of emotions i am going through.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> On Sunday, we went to the police. he came and said "i don't want to come home" the policeman advised us to file the case.. so... now we can get started on the divorce process. i am just trying to handle the range of emotions i am going through.


Well at least you know now and can move on. 

I know it's hard and you are going through a rollercoaser of emotions. This is very normal, hard but normal.

Find things to do that make you feel good, spend time with people you love and enjoy.


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## Blossom Leigh

Nurture yourself well. 

You are on the Grief Cycle. Google it, get familiar with the cycle and it will help you navigate it.


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## MelodyAnn

Finding a path,

I've read your posts here for dozens of pages until the end. I am SOOO sorry to see that a person who came here for support while going through an incredibly painful situation with an emotionally abusive, unfaithful husband has been dissected and torn down by some of this online community. If I were you, I would not even waste my time responding to such judgmental people as Turnera and Spinster, whose behavior resembles a flock of vultures pecking you apart! If they can't be supportive, they should quit judging and go on their merry way! It actually hurt me to see how you rose each time to defend yourself from their bullying attacks with no-one else really jumping to your defense and waving them off. They went on and on and on and on bogging you down in arguments about stupid things like whether or not you should speak to rude, abusive neighbors, or your choice of language (sl-ts), when there is a much bigger picture here to tend to of a person whose marriage is falling apart while on the receiving end of a series of betrayals. They should be here to support you, not crucify you for your personal choices and opinions. This online community is supposed to support people going through infidelity, marital issues and divorce; not dissect people and stand in high and mighty judgment for personal choices that are really not relevant to the main issue for which posters come to seek support. I was sorry to see you side-tracked this way by some really selfish responders, when what you really needed was compassion and useful advice in a period of major life turmoil. It really is your personal choice if you want to talk to rude neighbors or not, but you have patiently withstood the heat of judgment for that choice by someone who obviously believes she is morally superior to you. It's encouraging that you are a strong woman with a strong moral compass of your own, but it's a pity that you had to put up with these kinds of responses. As far as talking to rude, abusive neighbors, you shouldn't have to! That is your choice, and a perfectly reasonable one, which the overwhelming majority of people would make. It doesn't make you "arrogant" or "snobbish", or full of "disdain" for people, like Turnera accuses you to be. What a nasty, judgmental put-down from that poster! Did you know in this country (the US), spitting towards/on someone is considered violent and harassing and is an arrestable offense in some states? That poster is the judgmental one and essentially said that she is better than you because she would choose to pursue getting to know such people. Attacking you as an "arrogant snob", the poster only showed herself to be cold and compassionless towards someone going through so much pain already. The other poster, Spinster, is equally critical and judgmental over something like word choice. It's true that whether your husband is developing emotional connections and flirting with women who are either promiscuous or not promiscuous, you would be equally hurt. But you have the right to perceive the women in his life however you choose. It's really not the appropriate place or circumstance for them to get so hung up over how you perceive those women, when that's so minor compared to the bigger picture of emotional cheating on your husband's part. They shouldn't be so concerned about your perception or word choice and launch some sort of superior moral attack upon you for using the word sl-t! P-lease! Who cares!! Who cares what you call them. You are obviously hurt by your husband's interaction with them, and that's all that matters, and that's what people should be consoling you about, not picking you apart for your word choice or personal perceptions. You live in a different culture where women lack a lot of social supports and are expected to tolerate misbehavior from dominating husbands. And you get little support from family members who believe you should uphold marriage at all costs in a culture that is not very accepting of divorce. It's sad that you could not get better support from this online medium. Providing support to you in this situation should be the only driving force in people's responses.

I know you must be going through an incredibly painful time right now, since you have filed for divorce and finally found an address to send the court papers to. I hope and pray for your strength in this time. Be strong!! From all your writings, I can see that you are a very strong person! And kind, and open-minded towards other people too. Don't let pressure from society, family members, and any callous people in your surroundings sway you from your course of action to gain freedom from your emotionally abusive, wayward, and very manipulative spouse. He may think he has the upper hand because he is advantaged in a society that promotes male domination over females. But you can rise above this oppression and be a strong, independent woman! Hopefully, there is not insurmountable stigma to divorce in your country, and you are able to find a better partner and spouse in the future who will honor you, respect your feelings, and treasure you!


----------



## MelodyAnn

spinsterdurga said:


> Yes. I assume that based and what I have read in your thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My bad. You BRIEFLY mentioned it. Unless she is mentally unstable, I don't believe that your mother said "Mrs. W can you not throw water because I don't want my shoes to get ruin/ don't want to walk on them" and she replied "your daughter is barren" .
> 
> My point is you keep focusing on what other people do and not on what YOU do. Why aren't you concern with your fathers actions. Those women aren't in your life, yet you worry about them. Instead of worrying about the fact that your father wants you to stay married to a [potential] cheater?
> 
> Again worry about YOU and not others. Build YOURSELF up instead of wasting time on TEARING others down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finding-a-path said:
> 
> 
> 
> what would you do if someone said that about you when your mom was requesting them not to throw the dirty water?)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/
> 
> I would have been the one to ask them not to throw dirty water. If someone said I was barren and should worry about that, I wouldn't have been hurt or mad. I have been called so many things that I wouldn't care.
> 
> Actually, making fun of someone who is barren says more about the person making fun than the one who is barren.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I meant that you forgot to keep mentioning it. You keep saying that he left you because you didn't want him to have immoral friends. I'm sorry but I don't believe that it's the ONLY reason why he left. Again my point is that you mention what others do, but not what you do (did). You should also worry about the fact that you're controlling instead of worrying about how long/ short someone's skirt is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you judge those women because it makes you happy. That makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These put-downs are very judgmental, and clearly bullying. You are not at all helpful to the original poster, so what are you trying to do here other than TEAR her apart and degrade her?? She is not the one TEARING people down, you are! There is no positive impact or benefit from your insults to this poster, who is clearly going through a very painful situation. Instead of consoling her, you BLAME her for the mistreatment that she is going through from her spouse and mother in law. That is pretty abusive on your part, and this young woman is going through enough emotional abuse in her personal life without your adding to it!! I think you should just quit contributing to her post, and get off the discussion here!!
Click to expand...


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## MelodyAnn

turnera said:


> Because that's how I choose to live my life - giving others the benefit of the doubt that they are humans, too, and have reasons for feeling spite toward you. And choosing to want to be nicer to people who treat me badly so as to give them reason to change their mind. All you do by walking past them with your nose in the air is prove them right.
> 
> If I knew someone felt that much spite toward me, I would want to know why, and if it was something that I did to warrant it. And if it was something I did to warrant it, I would want to change that about myself.
> 
> I have to say that you seem incredibly proud of yourself and proud of your station in life. It's a safe bet that others around you - especially people who are not as fortunate as you to have an education, a career, a home of your own - feel that you consider yourself better than them, given the way you talk about people. When I see someone who thinks they're better than me, I end up not liking them very much. Maybe that's what they're experiencing. But you'll never know, because you refuse to speak to anyone unless they treat you well.



You keep saying things like "that's how I choose to live my life", "what I would do", "what I would want to do", etc, etc. You don't realize how morally superior you sound. That you choose to talk to people who treat you badly is your personal choice, and one that you have a right to make. But, the clear implication in your words is that your choice is superior and anyone who doesn't make the same choice as you is a faulty human being, is somehow arrogant, and thinks themselves better than others. The great irony is that you completely come across as thinking you are better than this woman who makes a personal choice not to speak to abusive neighbors! In my humble opinion, I don't see anything in this young woman's posts that make her appear arrogant, yet you choose to judge her so critically and hamstring her at a time you should be offering her support, or otherwise remain silent. Why do you think what 'you would do' is better just because that's the choice you would make? Obviously, you are claiming a position of moral superiority to the original poster, and it makes you appear to be the one who is very proud of yourself. Don't assume your choice is better just because you made it, or that it is the only right way to live one's life. Respect the choices other people make, and don't degrade them. Live and let live! And, PLEASE, give the poster a break! I don't think you are being helpful at all to her, or productive with this kind of critique of her personal values.


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## finding-a-path

hello to all of you  hope everyone is doing well...after we went to the police and he said he is not coming back, i tried to make myself distant from this painful experience..not talking about it, not coming here etc... i have tried meditation, comedy movies,games, books to dull the pain and make me focus on the good things of life.. i am still incredibly sad about the death of our love and my marriage. but now i feel like i can live without him and be happy just living.. 

after the police visit, a presidential election was declared in our country.there was anxiety, excitement and so much news that i had the opportunity to focus on something else except my own tragedy.. it felt good to think about and focus on something else.. so, we did not have the chance to go to a lawyer.I did not have the chance to take leave on December and January due to heavy work load.after the first 10 days of February, i will get the chance to go meet the lawyer and file for divorce.i have talked with my manager about it and the manager has given me the permission to take the required leave on Feb.


and during these 2 months i have managed to make my father change his views and agree on divorce too.

on the 1st half of January, the candidate i wanted to win, won the election.so i have been feeling life is not "all bad". you might think it is weird,but i am a woman with a huge interest in politics. 

and then , THE RESULTS OF MY EXAM CAME OUT. i passed. 1100 people sat for the exam and my rank is 17th!!!!! i am so happy!!! now i will be an assistant manager after receiving the promotion letter... 

i called my husband and told him the results.he said "good" that started a bit of texting between us and i got to know that he has got the tattoo he wanted.. he said he wants to get the divorce done so that he can go abroad and work (his mom has told him that she wants her own home so that she does not have to ask to go to other people's houses) i said i also want to get it done soon.


i got to learn that he is not staying with his mother on most days now.apparently, he stays at the houses of various friends... drinking and talking with friends... 


from what i see, his mother has poisoned his mind from April 23rd 2014 (the day she asked to come for a month from him and i requested that she shall come after the exam) to August when he left home,saying "you are living at your woman's house so you cant do things you want,you are afraid of wife,she is controlling you" blah blah. then after she got him to leave me,she has cooked for him taken care of him and when she got bored doing it, she has directed him to go stay at other people's houses!! 

i knew she did not cook , she did not do any house work, she watched TV from 6am to 10pm or so,she gossiped in a loud voice.that is why i asked her to come later so that i can study. 

she made a big drama out of it,made him leave home, showed my husband that she has changed , that she cooks, does house work for a few months.(so that i become the bad guy.she was going to do everything if she came here,and i made an issue of her not cooking or doing anything and watching tv ) and after a few months, now she has became her old self and directed my husband to stay at friend's houses.now she does not have to cook or do anything and her target of breaking us up is also achieved. what a cunning woman..


and unknown to me , she has had resentment for me because she felt that she had to get her son's money THROUGH me...we gave her 100 dollars per month.. (my salary is around usd 300 and his is around usd 1000.changes every month) and usd 300 is enough for a family for a month. that money,i deposited in her account every month because i work at the bank and then i texted her saying it's deposited... i did so because it's easier than my husband going to the bank and staying in the queue . she has taken that in the wrong way.like i am a "check point" for the money.like i oversee any money she gets from her son...


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## jin

Good to hear your are doing okay and congrats on passing your exam.


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## finding-a-path

So... on 18th Jan, that is before i made my last post, somebody called me and said husband is having an affair.sometime ago i had asked from all my friends to not look at his fb. after this call i texted him asking are you having someone in your life.he of course denied.

my friends checked his profile.a woman-who sings with a band- has posted a photo to husband's wall.caption "the love of my life" and he has commented saying "should have posted the full photo baby" (seems she cropped the photo and it is a photo of both of them) and on her wall, he has posted flowers and she has commented "thank you my baby" 

after some investigation we found out that they are living together. he left on august 16th and after 4 months he has started living with her!! 

now, it is these type of women that i called "****s" earlier. wearing clothes like prostitutes, drinking and flirting with many men, and moving in with a married man after knowing him for just 4 months.... what i cant understand is,he disliked this type of selfie obsessed,half naked,flirting women... how can he suddenly like them?

and how can he do everything he did with me, with her? doesn't a person need some time to get in to another relationship?


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## Blossom Leigh

Some people do, some people don't.

Looks like I called this one.


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## Blossom Leigh

From August 25th of this year....



Blossom Leigh said:


> I have a theory...
> 
> Him not caring for his mother without being conjoled and then using the excuse of you not caring for his mother as excuse to leave smacks of affair to me and this is where I would call his bluff.
> 
> "Husband, I am not buying the excuse for you wanting to leave because of "lack of care" for your mother since her care wasnt your priority prior to that and I had to conjole you to engage her. When you can be honest with me, then I'll talk, until then dont waste my time."
> 
> 
> He may be wanting to leave, but I can tell you right now, it aint because of his mama. She just provided a convenient excuse for him to use to cover his tracks for something else. He saw the opportunity and ran with it. She has no idea he is using her right now. Now the uncle makes sense to me. He knows he is lying and was trying to build his credibility. The rental house and kids request is just to keep mama apoeased so the ruse stays in tact. The rest is him laying out his life to cheat. Thats the theory... If it resonates, I hope it helps you find the truth, if not just disregard





Blossom Leigh said:


> I understand this cultural thing because one of my best friends in highschool was Vietnamese. All the children sent the mother money as they left home to work. You asking her to wait one month was totally reasonable. This boy has got something else going on.


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## Openminded

I'm sorry to hear that but not surprised. Some people do just walk away from their marriage but more have "help" (a new person) to move things along. He likes that lifestyle and that type of female. 

How was he able to move so quickly? Because he emotionally checked out of your marriage long before he physically did. You were still invested in your marriage. He wasn't.


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## finding-a-path

Openminded said:


> He likes that lifestyle and that type of female.


thank you for the reply. but, he did not like that type of females for 35 years of his life.that's what i was shown and that's what i believed for the 8 years i was with him.have i been made a fool for 8 years.....? if so im afraid because that means i don't have the ability to understand a man at all right...?


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Some people do, some people don't.
> 
> Looks like I called this one.


yes.looks like you did... i kept believing him like an idiot....


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## Blossom Leigh

I know you were hoping. You are wiser now.


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## Openminded

finding-a-path said:


> thank you for the reply. but, he did not like that type of females for 35 years of his life.that's what i was shown and that's what i believed for the 8 years i was with him.have i been made a fool for 8 years.....? if so im afraid because that means i don't have the ability to understand a man at all right...?


Maybe you never really knew him. Maybe he just changed. You unfortunately will never get the answer to that question but in time you will no longer care why he did what he did.


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## EleGirl

Path,

Your husband has apparently not told you the truth about himself for a long time. He told you that he did not like that type of woman because he knew that was what you wanted to hear. But now it's clear that he does like that type of woman. He probably likes many types of women.

The good thing is that you now have the truth. He has been cheating. He was probably cheating with her before he left you. 

I'm sorry that this is what has happened. But it's a lot easier to deal with the truth then it is to deal with shadows of the truth.

Congrats on your test!!! Happy promotion when that happens. You are doing well in your own life. You own a home. You are a good job.

Hang in there. Life will get better.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Path,
> 
> Your husband has apparently not told you the truth about himself for a long time. He told you that he did not like that type of woman because he knew that was what you wanted to hear. But now it's clear that he does like that type of woman. He probably likes many types of women.
> 
> The good thing is that you now have the truth. He has been cheating. He was probably cheating with her before he left you.
> 
> I'm sorry that this is what has happened. But it's a lot easier to deal with the truth then it is to deal with shadows of the truth.
> 
> Congrats on your test!!! Happy promotion when that happens. You are doing well in your own life. You own a home. You are a good job.
> 
> Hang in there. Life will get better.


THANK YOU.. I am trying hard to move forward. it's very hard.i keep seeing mental images of them doing things... he watched movies with me,we went shopping together,we massaged each other,we showered together,cooked together,or sex life was good.now i see images of him doing all that with her... very very difficult... it seems like i am always thinking "how can he do everything he did with me with her"


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## EleGirl

He can do all that with her because he can compartmentalize. That means that he just changes a channel in his head. When he does this all he sees is her. It's something that people do to help them survive. But it's often misused the way your husband is using it.

You need to learn though redirection. Humans are different from animals in that animals react to whatever is in front of them. They do not seem to have the ability to control their own thoughts the way humans do. Humans have the ability to pull back after the initial thought and decide how to react to the thought. Now you can choose to let the thought linger in your mind and continue to hurt you, or you can choose to change what you are thinking of. That's called though redirection.

Come up with a few things that you enjoy thinking about. For me it's things like skiing down a slope or walking on a beach with the sun beating down on me.

When you think about him and have all these images that hurt you... stop and make a conscious chage of what you are thinking about. Start thinking about something that makes you feel good. 

So for me, I would stop letting the mind movies of my husband with his affair partner having sex. And I would start thinking of walking along the beach, the waves lapping at my feet, the sun on my back. And I would stay with that very pleasant thought for a while.

You can do this every time you start thinking about him. It's a way to train your mind to stop thinking about him and to stop ruminating on him and him with other women. You cannot control the thoughts that pop into your mind. But you can control the amount of time you spend thinking about them. Over time, the less you allow your mind to spend time on him, the less your mind will go there.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl, thank you for your post..i didnt know about the "compartmentalizing" 

i am a very curious woman who wants to know what why when and how of everything.so my mind keeps asking me how can he?when did they? blah blah. i tried what you said. (you told me to do it before too.i did for some time and then i was ok.then i forgot about it.) 

so, i thought about 

1)all the books i want to get (books are my happy pills  ) 
2)about traveling the world
3)movies i want to watch
4)nature-waterfalls,hills,flowers
5)cats 

usually "doing" things makes me happy.not thinking about them..but i managed to keep some of the bad thoughts at bay with this. still practicing.the problem is all my happy things are associated with him.say i think about books,then i think about how he used to gift me books (on every anniversary it was books) but im trying hard.


there is talk of valentines day everywhere.ads on websites, emails im receiving, facebook pages i have liked... it's hard. he used to give me a gift and flowers... this year he must be celebrating with her,but im hanging on..


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## finding-a-path

I had a thought last night... i was thinking about what happened to me.because i still can't understand why he had to leave because of the mother issue and the video.

he lost his father when he was 4 years.his mom arranged for him to live with his aunt, he has told me that he keeps a distance, he has an emotional wall to stop getting hurt.could it be that he was not having any emotional attachment to me and our life together? (not trying to make excuses for him,just trying to understand) 

there are people with attachment disorders right? i know we cant decide such things without proper doctors but im thinking it might be a factor in this....


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## EleGirl

In order to leave you, he had to have lost, or never had, a very strong emotional attachment to you. You might have found something here.

Not only that but while his father left him early in life, the two major people in his life.. his mother and his aunt, he did not form a strong attachment to. He does not really like his aunt or his mother, right? But he feels obligated to him.

He might very well have a problem maintaining an attachment to any woman because of this.

He was already acting out before this whole thing with his bother became a problem. Perhaps the incident with his mother just gave him a good excuse to leave you. Before that he looked like the bad guy if he left. But once his mother started making a scene, then he could blame his leaving on you.

It also brings up a very good point. This affair he is having right now? He will most likely do to her what he's done to you. This insight to him putting up walls to his mother is a very good one. 

He will most likely go from woman to woman for most of his life.


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## finding-a-path

I think he had an emotional attachment in the beginning of this relationship. When he thought I would not "hurt" him like his father or mother. Then, after he thought that I hurt him (some little incident is enough for him to be convinced that "she is like the rest too") the wall went up. Every time we had an argument it went further up. and then he lost the attachment he had. Because unlike other people he keeps a list of arguments and resents, he doesn’t forgive and forget.the wall never came down even though I did many loving things for him.

then he decided she is not what I thought(this fairy creature who does not do/say anything he dislikes, ever and who does not point out his mistakes) and he might well have been looking for a way to get out. and his mother provided the opportunity.

When I met him he was drinking and smoking.i said no when he 1st asked me to be his gf because I don’t like smokers.so he stopped,I thought it was done because he thought about my happiness more than his own,but seems it was done because he wanted me.(as in for a selfish reason)

And those days,he was chatting with women. Having an emotional connection with many women, inquiring about them,taking care of them,sharing info,dreams and plans with them,browsing through the photos of random women like he is looking to select one…calling them pet names…I didn’t want to share the attention of my man with other women like that. So I requested him to stop.i thought he understood the boundary, understood why it has to be stopped.but seems he stopped just because I requested.seems it was part of his nature..maybe he enjoyed the attention because he didn’t get any growing up..

So both things, and not going abroad,not getting a tattoo etc were done not out of love and thinking it makes my wife happy. seems they were done because of the mindset “otherwise she will dislike me” .

One of my friends said if he loved you for real, it was not necessary to tell him please don’t chat with those women and share personal information, use pet names etc ..he would have not wanted to do it and stopped it by himself… I don’t know if that is true or just expecting too much..i sure thought he wouldn’t want to chat and give attention to other random women after we talked about that boundary.

So after he lost the attachment he had to me, he must have wanted to return to his true nature. it must have been felt that why would I do these things for her? I don’t want her now. So after that he must have been looking for the chance to leave. In short, the pleasure from those things became more valuable than the pleasure he got from being with me because he did not have the emotional attachment/love anymore.

Now he is with this woman because 
1 to forget us, our memories.to distract his mind.a rebound.
2 because he feels ” I tried devotion.but it didn’t work out now I will talk and flirt and touch everyone” . only that type of women are ok with that. so he selected her.
3 to assure himself that he can have the love of other women (to feel that ok it didn’t work out with my wife,but I can be happy and have love)


Things look much clearer to me now..


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## finding-a-path

passing the valentines day was hard... what with all the friends posting their gifts on fb, advertisements, in love couples everywhere.....


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## Blossom Leigh

Be patient with yourself... Recovery takes time. I would have stayed off FB. 

Insulate yourself from that stuff.

Behave as if you never met him and you are totally single and he is a complete steanger. Your detachment tactics need to be extreme. You are way too attached even to the idea of being with someone right now.


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## finding-a-path

Blossom Leigh said:


> Be patient with yourself... Recovery takes time. I would have stayed off FB.
> 
> Insulate yourself from that stuff.
> 
> Behave as if you never met him and you are totally single and he is a complete steanger. Your detachment tactics need to be extreme. You are way too attached even to the idea of being with someone right now.


A friend told me it takes around 3 months to recover.something she read about a research,but it has been 6 months since he left and i haven't recovered yet.guess it will take more time for me.

I didn't think much before logging in to FB. then only it hit me.everybody posting their gifts and love messages...

you gave something to search about. "detachment tactics" thank you about that.

"You are way too attached even to the idea of being with someone right now" 
I agree that i feel a fear that i wont find the correct person.
but more than that,I think i am attached to the idea of wanting the "old him" and hating the "new him"

I am ready to go to work and i am uncomfortable. because i know everybody will be asking "what did you get on valentines day" except the close friends who know all the details...


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## EleGirl

I've read that it takes at least 1 month for every year of marriage to recover. It can take longer. 

If you had a boyfriend, you would recover faster. Though it would most likely be a transitional relationship and not last.

And yes, stay off facebook if it makes you feel bad.


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## EleGirl

The "old him" is not the real him. He put on a act for you. Apparently he did it for a long time. But, like all fakes do, he got to the point where he could not longer play act and be the person you wanted. So he stopped and returned to who he really is.


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## EleGirl

finding-a-path said:


> I am ready to go to work and i am uncomfortable. because i know everybody will be asking "what did you get on valentines day" except the close friends who know all the details...


Don't the people at work know that you are getting a divorce?

If they ask what you did on Valentine's day, you do not owe any one details. Just say something like "I had a great day and I'm not sharing details." then wink at them and walk away.

Let their imagination fill in the blanks.


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## finding-a-path

EleGirl said:


> Don't the people at work know that you are getting a divorce?
> 
> If they ask what you did on Valentine's day, you do not owe any one details. Just say something like "I had a great day and I'm not sharing details." then wink at them and walk away.
> 
> Let their imagination fill in the blanks.


I am working with 110+ people and not everyone knows... I had two difficult moments.both happened when two co-workers asked what i received for V day.I didn't want to go in to details so i just told them we are not together anymore.


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## Blossom Leigh

I think if you intentionally stop yourself from thinking about his choice in life and instead focus on your new choices and how fantastic you can make them, you will accelerate your recovery.


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## tripad

Hey
I've been Mia for awhile.
Will try to fill in later. 

But finding a path. 
It will get better. 

I'm getting better. 

Divorce finalised. Fighting about assets now. It sickens me to think that my ex n his family cheated my money n still try to fight for the house. No consideration for where I n children will stay if he wins. 

But I decided I will go ahead with divorce finalising even if I lose the house. I will survive. My freedom from anymore misery n abuse is more impt. 

But I was told I will get majority of house. 

Anyway, back to u. 

It will be better. I keep telling myself that. I will get better emotionally n financially. 

I stopped thinking what he does, why, how, whatever. I don't even think if he's with a woman or not anymore. I know I will find a better man in my own time .

Valentine comes n goes for me as well. I just clean up house, work, sports, TV, just like a single would do. 

I dobt talk to anyone about valentines 
.I don't even tell anyone I'm divorced. I only told a few close friends where their support was good for me. 

U will get better. Just know it will happen N believe in it. 

Don't think about him, why how what. It will torture you. 

I told myself this - I cant understand n can't explain for someone's irrational behaviour, so why bother ?


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## tripad

frankly 
Maybe u should pity the woman Who is with him. The same sh#t is going to happen to her. 

That's what I feel about my ex n if he has a woman. in fact I told him he should never do what he did to me to another decent woman.


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## Canon in D

I haven't been here for a while too. I'm happy that you did so well for your exam! Congratulations! As for him, it takes time to heal, but you will heal and someday you will think back and wonder what you saw in him. lol. As for who he was before, May I suggest don't date someone who is completely different from you. If you expect them to change for you, it's probably better to not date them in the first place. I'm not an expert like the others. I can only speak from experience.

Be strong, hang in there, and remember life goes on. Focus on you, love you, date you, enjoy your own company. That's all that matters right now. It's pointless wasting your energy thinking how could he gave up all the years. It's just years, he probably was never himself so finally he is free to do what he wants. We all have different expectations, he probably changed himself to suit your expectations but that doesn't mean he was completely happy about it.


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## finding-a-path

Hi 


update-- the divorce procedure is starting. apparently it's very hard getting a divorce here..and finding a lawyer who does not charge unfair fees was a struggle.

5th wedding anniversary is tomorrow.having a hard time coping with it but i manage...


he is living together with that woman.

following is a conversation between HIS BROTHER and me. 

me
why is your mother such a revengeful person? im sorry i had to ask.... i mean to break up a couple just because i requested her to come later?

him
Don't know how they think what sort of i ideas they have strange but true

me
why r people living like they are going to live forever.......

him
That's the problem & the very question that I have
I have a request??

me
what is the request?

him
Would you like to be my wife???

me
WHAT? are you crazy?

that is just a joke right?

him
Hmmmm kind of

me
what?
i talked to you thinking you are my brother
how can you even say something like that?

him
I know what has happened right
And you know me well

me
no. seems i dont know you!! i thought i did. how can you say something like that.i m sorry i dont want to chat with u .is everyone crazy

him
Yes I'm crazy for you

then i scolded him and have not contacted him.



have been reading this book.it's helping.


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## finding-a-path

this book i meant


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## tripad

U have a weird brother in law too.

His whole family is warped. 

Just like my ex n family


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## Canon in D

Omg. Yes, that's crazy. You are finally going to be free from his mom and to call her mom again. Lol. I bet if you say yes to the brother, the mother will get a heart attack!!!! Lol.


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## EleGirl

Path... 

It sounds like your soon to be ex BIL has a thing for you. Run.. 

you do sound like you are doing better. That's good.


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## ILoveSparkles

EleGirl said:


> Path...
> 
> It sounds like your soon to be ex BIL has a thing for you. Run..
> 
> you do sound like you are doing better. That's good.


Honestly, I feel like this soon to be XBIL expressing interest in you might be a way for that family to keep you within their grasp. You need to run away from this family, and not respond to any correspondence from any of them at all. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## tripad

Or they could be placing bets on how easy he can get u. 

Never go for the brother. Plenty of men out there for a good woman like you. 

Anyway u don't want the same mother in law. Gosh no way man.


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