# Friendship - How Important?



## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I attended a recent therapy session with my wife. We started weekly counseling months ago, but after three sessions, the therapist said that she really needed to work one on one with my wife for a while. 

So, I went to this session because I had called the therapist, asking for some time. She brought up an article describing how, from a man's POV, its critical for men to be treated as a close friend of their wife if the marriage is able to survive. That was news to my wife, and it was a light-bulb moment for me. 

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the sex life (which is okay), affirmation, praise, etc. I'm talking about someone who treats you like a friend. Think about it. Friendship in marriage means: Wants to see you succeed independently of the marriage. Would get up early to cook a special breakfast just to surprise you. Prefers time with you on a regular basis for talking, laughing, etc - not just to have her needs met. Treats you with kindness when you are sick. Just wants to enjoy time together, outside of feeling like the time together is completely devoted to having her needs met. I realized that I've always gone overboard in this sense, hoping my wife would catch on. Yes, we've done the love languages and needs sessions about half a dozen times through the years. My wife really means well, but she is incredibly insecure. She realizes that she had many resentment issues in the past, but said that she wanted to fix these issues that led up to us almost divorcing. We've been married 24 years.

I'm curious about how important other men consider this to be? Do you think you have this type of relationship, as a man? What are your additional thoughts about what is important in the friendship side of the relationship? I understand that some people are in a situation where sex is a bigger unmet need, so maybe it will be hard to seperate the two issues. The therapist wants to pursue it in depth in later sessions, but I realize that for some reason, I can barely put the whole concept into words (as you can probably tell).


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I can tell you wife and are best friends yet the sex is the issue. My wife has no really good close friends.... neither do I. So by default we are each others best friend. Our friendship makes sexlessness less horrible.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

I believe that the friendship part of our marriage is important.

We talk, we listen, we laugh, we have fun, and we enjoy each other’s company. That to me is friendship.

But it does not complete our marriage. I also desire a wife/partner.

That part of our marriage comes down to wanting her to respect me, admire me, build me up in place of tearing me down, cherish me and our marriage, love me, and support me through thick and thin. 

It comes down to our wedding vows. Love, honor, cherish, in sickness and in health, through good times and bad. You get the idea!

I have found that the best way for me to receive these things from my wife, is to first, give them!

Thats my thought?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Friendship was a big part of our reconciliation. While there were many issues, the EA, trust, no sex and emotional walls... my wife and I remained good friends. This friendship quickly redeveloped after D-Day and was part of what held us together during the very rough patches we were about to face. Today we are still fast friends and greatly enjoy each other's company, sense of humors and just hanging out. She enjoys watching football with me just as I enjoy watching Iron Chef with her. We pal around and have developed common interests. While friendship is important in the relationship, we can't let it supersede the romance, passion, empathy, trust and all the there aspects that make up the glue of the marriage.

Good thread to start H.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

RDJ said:


> I believe that the friendship part of our marriage is important.
> 
> We talk, we listen, we laugh, we have fun, and we enjoy each other’s company. That to me is friendship.
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining it so well. Unfortunately, she even acknowledges that part of the problem was that I was pretty extreme in treating her this way, so she just more or less came to take it for granted. In her mindset, the man carries most of the responsibility for engaging. Now, she's more open to the idea of sharing reponsibility, but thinks she'll just fail.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> Friendship was a big part of our reconciliation. While there were many issues, the EA, trust, no sex and emotional walls... my wife and I remained good friends. This friendship quickly redeveloped after D-Day and was part of what held us together during the very rough patches we were about to face. Today we are still fast friends and greatly enjoy each other's company, sense of humors and just hanging out. She enjoys watching football with me just as I enjoy watching Iron Chef with her. We pal around and have developed common interests. While friendship is important in the relationship, we can't let it supersede the romance, passion, empathy, trust and all the there aspects that make up the glue of the marriage.
> 
> Good thread to start H.


Amp, this is the type of relationship I really crave. Thanks for sharing. Its hard to explain, but she told the therapist that she feels like a failure in so many things that she just accepted failure. I was good in the cheerleading side, I think, but not in pressing mutual accountablity. Its hard to blame her when I didn't make the needs very clear, and her mom always told her that men only needed sex.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

What do you do with a friend you trust? 

You tell him everything in your mind. 

You share everything together. 

You do things to make him happy. 

You want to understand him and you want him to understand you. And you feel wonderful if he understands you! 

You feel comfortable around him. In front of him, you are transparent. You want to spend time with him together, because time with him is enjoyable. 

I view my husband the only one who can understand me. And I know that my husband only trusts me. 

People might think that a couple who are like close friends may not have good sex life. I don't understand where that comes from. My husband and I have wonderful sex life. He is the only person I want to have sex with. I don't confuse him with a friend. To me, he is my husband, and he is my friend.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

Wow - this has been a great thread to read. THe friendship bit is extremely important. In my marriage, the sex has been fine, but the friendship part has gone away completely. I'm discovering that she has some true narcissitic tendencies (her father is full blow) and that the building up, doing small things just to be nice, etc are non-existent. Duty-type stuff is there (dinner for the kids) - but none of just plain ole fun. Nada! Trust has been eroded too for various reasons. I'll be reading this thread closely. Thanks for raising the topic.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> What do you do with a friend you trust?
> 
> You tell him everything in your mind.
> 
> ...


You bring up a really good point, GP. See, I think the issue that affects me is that my wife would agree with what you wrote, but wasn't comfortable in 'treating' me like a friend. Its about the things you say and do. I don't want people to think she's a bad person. She has a very serious bipolar depression disorder, and tends to feel like a failure much of the time. Through the years, experimenting with antidepressents tips her into a suicidal thought mode. This spectrum disorder can't be treated with these meds, apparently. So, instead of expecting her to be mature and responsible, I always just 'put it off'. She tentatively just waits until she is 100% comfortable in going out on a limb, so to speak, but it never comes. For some reason, she's able to completely open up with siblings and parents, even some friends. I made a mistake in pretending to be a person with no needs. She and her family call me a force of nature, but I'm just a guy. Hope that makes sense.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

Halien said:


> Thanks for explaining it so well. Unfortunately, she even acknowledges that part of the problem was that I was pretty extreme in treating her this way, so she just more or less came to take it for granted. In her mindset, the man carries most of the responsibility for engaging. Now, she's more open to the idea of sharing reponsibility, but thinks she'll just fail.


I hear ya!

That comes down to boundries, expectations, and communication. A desire for MUTUAL happiness.

If you have given all of these things and she has taken them for granted, there is nothing wrong with comming back and expressing that they are not free, they are earned.

She may fear failure, but that is where you as a husband can show "leadership", You support her, you guide her, you give her strength through yours, and you praise her every small step forward.

For example: Look at the bright side, she is going to MC, that is a step in the right direction, it's an effort, its a sign that she is open to change. Appriciate it, let her know that although you both have work to do, you appriciate that she is willing to try.

Through hardship comes growth, embrace it!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

...I will answer for my husband... I know when we met, I quickly became his BEST friend in this world , and he mine. Many may feel that takes away from the Passion & butterflys somehow, and maybe it does?? ....but every word you uttered here...


> Friendship in marriage means: Wants to see you succeed independently of the marriage. Would get up early to cook a special breakfast just to surprise you. Prefers time with you on a regular basis for talking, laughing, etc - not just to have her needs met. Treats you with kindness when you are sick. Just wants to enjoy time together, outside of feeling like the time together is completely devoted to having her needs met......


*How very TRUE all of that IS*. The stuff about "wanting" to spend time together, just doing anything, even nothing -that is how we are. It is all about -just enjoying being together. Makes every trip worthwhile. 

Friendship is essential, I can not even imagine a marraige without your spouse being your very closest dearest friend, the one we think of 1st, who we run too too with every care, every hurt, every overflowing excitement. I can't even imagine a marraige without that happening, it would make little sense to me. It would bother me tremendously if that was NOT the case, I would climb a mountain to get that back......it would seem more like a "partnership" somehow. 

Love what GreenPearl said - 100% agree ! :smthumbup:



> I made a mistake in pretending to be a person with no needs


 ...Yes, a mistake, many women LIKE to feel NEEDED. I am like that .... I don't think there is anything wrong with that, we ALL want to feel we can "DO" for our husbands, this gives us delight. If you take this away from us, we likely will feel MORE NEEDY against your strong independent bronze demeaner...

Your wife has Bipolar , this throws a monkey wrench into the normal flow of things though. I wonder if those friends /family she "opens" up too - I wonder if they too are looked upon as more "needy" souls , I guess a needy soul will be more able to open up to another needy soul.... it helps them relate. I think that might make sense. If I felt someone had it "all together" and was near perfect, I would be much less likely to spill my guts , my faults & struggles at their feet. 

Here is a similar thread if you want to hear what the Ladies have said ...... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/31654-your-husband-your-best-friend.html

.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Halien, maybe think on this for a while. You mention your wife is resentful (she wants to get through it, good). Embittered, resentful people persecute and punish by way of getting their revenge. That’s what they do. So your wife could not (and cannot) be your friend while at the same time persecute and punish you because that’s not what friends do.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Halien, maybe think on this for a while. You mention your wife is resentful (she wants to get through it, good). Embittered, resentful people persecute and punish by way of getting their revenge. That’s what they do. So your wife could not (and cannot) be your friend while at the same time persecute and punish you because that’s not what friends do.


I hear you. This is exactly why I keep coming back to the issue of friendship since it came up. On the one hand, my wife is pouring her heart into therapy - reading books and studying. But on the other, she says that she thinks she will fail unless I first treat her like I did in the past first. Through some PMs, TRBE has offered feedback on how to put some of this in perspective on how a woman might struggle through these conflicting emotions (thank you, TRBE!), but I still sometimes wonder if I make the whole thing of friendship into a bigger deal than some guys would. Our mariage therapist offered validation that maybe I wasn't just being abnormal in wanting this.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> ...I will answer for my husband... I know when we met, I quickly became his BEST friend in this world , and he mine.


Thank you, SA. The whole reply really puts the subject in context for me, but this is my goal. Much appreciated!


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## LexusNexus (Aug 19, 2011)

Thank you for this thread. 

Thats what happens in my marriage too. Exactly the same things, except my wife is not bipolar. We been together 14 years married 4. Before we got married everything was great, we were really good friends, she would express interests in my hobbies, and I would do what ever makes her happy. Her parents call me force of nature too. We just finished reading 5 languages of love, His Needs Her Needs.

My primary love language is Quality Time. Since our son was born 4 years ago we haven't been on any vacation just two us. We didn't even spend weekend just two of us. She doesn't want to do anything with my hobbies anymore, at the same time I still do what makes her happy. I think friendship is very important. The way I see it: Friendship leads to intimate/physical touch and that leads to great sex. Without that, sex is meanness to me at least now, because she refuse to talk to me for over a month.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Halien said:


> I hear you. This is exactly why I keep coming back to the issue of friendship since it came up. On the one hand, my wife is pouring her heart into therapy - reading books and studying. But on the other, she says that she thinks she will fail unless I first treat her like I did in the past first. Through some PMs, TRBE has offered feedback on how to put some of this in perspective on how a woman might struggle through these conflicting emotions (thank you, TRBE!), but I still sometimes wonder if I make the whole thing of friendship into a bigger deal than some guys would. Our mariage therapist offered validation that maybe I wasn't just being abnormal in wanting this.


Maybe that friendship you need just can’t happen while your wife is an embittered woman. I for one cannot see how it can. As far as I’m aware it’s a wife’s embitterment which ends most marriages because over time it just kills the man’s love for his wife. It’s like a parasite in the marriage, feeding off of all the good things that are there until they no longer exist. Plus it’s probably the most difficult of all marriage problems to solve, to resolve. Embitterment and it’s consequences are exceedingly “real” and never to be underestimated.

And embitterment didn’t exist during courtship and the early marriage. It grew overtime and it grows to such a size that it is no longer able to remain hidden and by that time it is exceedingly difficult to resolve.

You might want to look into “Post Traumatic Embitterment Disorder” or PTED. This describes the very worse case of an embittered person. Not at all saying it’s what your wife has, it is at the extreme end of the bitterness and resentment spectrum. 

The “antidote” to embitterment (I think it is a poison, it’s certainly exceedingly toxic) is forgiveness and the application of wisdom. Maybe just ask your wife to forgive you for everything negative that’s happened in the past. It does mean making yourself vulnerable but at least you’ll know where you stand, nothing ventured nothing gained and all that. If your wife tells you she’ll never forgive you, then given my experience I’d go right ahead and believe her. And you will know then what you have to look forward to.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

LexusNexus said:


> Since our son was born 4 years ago we haven't been on any vacation just two us. We didn't even spend weekend just two of us. She doesn't want to do anything with my hobbies anymore, at the same time I still do what makes her happy. I think friendship is very important. The way I see it: Friendship leads to intimate/physical touch and that leads to great sex. Without that, sex is meanness to me at least now, because she refuse to talk to me for over a month.


You describe your needs very similar to the way our therapist did. The therapist also said that many women don't realize that men value this type of connection because we men may not communicate it very well. Of course, the reasons can be complex and many.

In posing the question to men, I was primarily tying to guide it into a discussion of men's needs, like this post, and keep it away from a diagnosis of my particular case, but I would like to leave it open to women to talk about the subject from their POV, as GP and SA did.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Halien said:


> You describe your needs very similar to the way our therapist did. The therapist also said that many women don't realize that men value this type of connection because we men may not communicate it very well. Of course, the reasons can be complex and many.
> 
> In posing the question to men, I was primarily tying to guide it into a discussion of men's needs, like this post, and keep it away from a diagnosis of my particular case, but I would like to leave it open to women to talk about the subject from their POV, as GP and SA did.


My wife is my best friend. She is the person I most want to be around, and certainly the person with whom I first want to share the highs and lows of my day. I have a hard time imagining being married to her and not having her be at least a good friend. As my wife, she holds a unique position in my life. because of that, I really think I need her to be my friend, and that I need to be her friend.

One interesting challenge I find is that my desire to hang out with my wife as friends can, at times, hurt my desire to be intimate with her. Wanting to spend time with her can prevent me from giving her the space to breath a little on her own.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Halien said:


> You bring up a really good point, GP. See, I think the issue that affects me is that my wife would agree with what you wrote, but wasn't comfortable in 'treating' me like a friend. Its about the things you say and do. I don't want people to think she's a bad person. She has a very serious bipolar depression disorder, and tends to feel like a failure much of the time. Through the years, experimenting with antidepressents tips her into a suicidal thought mode. This spectrum disorder can't be treated with these meds, apparently. So, instead of expecting her to be mature and responsible, I always just 'put it off'. She tentatively just waits until she is 100% comfortable in going out on a limb, so to speak, but it never comes. For some reason, she's able to completely open up with siblings and parents, even some friends. I made a mistake in pretending to be a person with no needs. She and her family call me a force of nature, but I'm just a guy. Hope that makes sense.


I think after people get married, a lot of them just expect their spouse to give them what they want. Wives expect their husbands to provide them a happy and secure life, husbands expect their wives to do everything at home. And they don't feel grateful for what their spouses are doing. They think they just deserve it, I am married to you, give it to me. Friendship is not like that, we know when we want to have a good friendship, we don't take them for granted, we reciprocate. A relationship without reciprocation doesn't last. When we are with friends, I mean very close friends, we are direct to them when we feel they are doing something wrong, we want to tell them because we are concerned, we want good things happen to them. But we are very careful when we choose our words, we don't want to hurt them. We don't want them to be offended. But in a marriage, a husband and wife are not like that. They just shoot whatever in their mind, they don't care if they have hurt the other one or not.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Halien said:


> I hear you. This is exactly why I keep coming back to the issue of friendship since it came up. On the one hand, my wife is pouring her heart into therapy - reading books and studying. But on the other, she says that she thinks she will fail unless I first treat her like I did in the past first. Through some PMs, TRBE has offered feedback on how to put some of this in perspective on how a woman might struggle through these conflicting emotions (thank you, TRBE!), but I still sometimes wonder if I make the whole thing of friendship into a bigger deal than some guys would. Our mariage therapist offered validation that maybe I wasn't just being abnormal in wanting this.


I think you’ve been so focused on your wife’s needs you’ve been denying your own. Why not just sit down and write out what you need as far as friendship is concerned from your wife and take it from there. She may well not be able to give you what you need, but at the very least you’ll know and you’ll know where you stand.

But I feel you are like many long term married men who have a resentful wife, haven’t a clue about how it impacts their marriage (and therefore their life) and much less of a clue what to do about it. Resentful wives withhold in order to persecute and punish to get their revenge. That withholding can include the withholding of friendship, or whatever else you ask of her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I guess that's the foundation of our marriage, which turns out no matter what we throw at each other, it may shake us, but never breaks us. But meh, she's still sulking and I can't be bothered dealing with her :rofl:

Ah... marriage


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

AFEH said:


> I think you’ve been so focused on your wife’s needs you’ve been denying your own. Why not just sit down and write out what you need as far as friendship is concerned from your wife and take it from there. She may well not be able to give you what you need, but at the very least you’ll know and you’ll know where you stand.
> 
> But I feel you are like many long term married men who have a resentful wife, haven’t a clue about how it impacts their marriage (and therefore their life) and much less of a clue what to do about it. Resentful wives withhold in order to persecute and punish to get their revenge. That withholding can include the withholding of friendship, or whatever else you ask of her.


In some ways, we really think alike. I've even broke down my needs in the friendship realm to a 3 X 5 card, with examples of what she can do on a daily basis. She really wants to do it most of the time. Loathes herself for being so screwed up part of the time. Is addicted emotionally to food, and is seeking treatment, and also spends about two days a week so sick with migraines that she is incapacitated. One the one hand, therapists see a very bright woman who is intellectually their equal, so they don't seem to take it very seriously that she is unintentionally showing them her normal, professional personna. I don't think I can stress enough how it feels to live with a bipolar depressive person, who can keep her symptoms low key. Literally, one day she can feel empowered to connect emotionally, and on the next day feel so overwhelmed that she wishes she were dead. The following day, she will declare emphatically that she is normal, healthy, and that I'm overreacting for being scared of her mental state before. She admits that some resentment issues exist, but even knows they are driven by the bipolar condition at times. My docor says that I'm the one with perpetual PTSD. The one thing my wife always acknowledges is that she needs me just to get by. Thats why the sex life tends to be good.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Halien said:


> In some ways, we really think alike. I've even broke down my needs in the friendship realm to a 3 X 5 card, with examples of what she can do on a daily basis. She really wants to do it most of the time. Loathes herself for being so screwed up part of the time. Is addicted emotionally to food, and is seeking treatment, and also spends about two days a week so sick with migraines that she is incapacitated. One the one hand, therapists see a very bright woman who is intellectually their equal, so they don't seem to take it very seriously that she is *unintentionally showing them her normal, professional personna*. I don't think I can stress enough how it feels to live with a bipolar depressive person, who can keep her symptoms low key. Literally, one day she can feel empowered to connect emotionally, and on the next day feel so overwhelmed that she wishes she were dead. The following day, she will declare emphatically that she is normal, healthy, and that I'm overreacting for being scared of her mental state before. She admits that some resentment issues exist, but even knows they are driven by the bipolar condition at times. My docor says that I'm the one with perpetual PTSD. The one thing my wife always acknowledges is that she needs me just to get by. Thats why the sex life tends to be good.


“Unintentionally showing them her normal, professional persona”. Oh come on Halien pull the other one!!! It’s got loads and loads of bells on! Sounds to me like she is exceptionally manipulative. It sounds like you are being played. Buy that Awareness book, you'll soon find out if you are or not.

I think people with bipolar simply don’t have an emotional governor, you know like a speed limiter on a machine. Quite simply they never learnt that they are the ones who are supposed to govern their emotions, not another person, not drugs etc. So I think they “play up” much like a seven year old child. In fact I’d say your wife is very much like this as she is more than capable of keeping her emotions under control, proven when in front of her therapist. Many people have things the wrong way round, in that they let their emotions govern them rather than bringing their mental capacities into play such that they govern their emotions.


Buy your wife two books. Emotional Intelligence (Daniel Glover), this will help her understand her emotions and where they come from and from that she can learn how to govern them. And Awareness (Anthony de Mello) which will help her be really aware of when her emotions are “rising” (happiness or depression) so she can bring her new found emotional management into play.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

AFEH said:


> “Unintentionally showing them her normal, professional persona”. Oh come on Halien pull the other one!!! It’s got loads and loads of bells on! Sounds to me like she is exceptionally manipulative. It sounds like you are being played. Buy that Awareness book, you'll soon find out if you are or not.
> 
> I think people with bipolar simply don’t have an emotional governor, you know like a speed limiter on a machine. Quite simply they never learnt that they are the ones who are supposed to govern their emotions, not another person, not drugs etc. So I think they “play up” much like a seven year old child. In fact I’d say your wife is very much like this as she is more than capable of keeping her emotions under control, proven when in front of her therapist. Many people have things the wrong way round, in that they let their emotions govern them rather than bringing their mental capacities into play such that they govern their emotions.
> 
> ...


She definately has the Emotional Intelligence book, but I'm not sure about the other one. That's the thing. She is very upfront and honest about herself to me, but very ashamed of her faults. That's the only reason I said it was unintentional. One of her most admirable traits is honesty and integrity. She will tell the therapist about her problems so openly and intelligently that most will assume that she's over the hurdle, so to speak. It is really refreshing to see her at the place finally where she is taking charge of her own issues. The therapist, however, said that she is very excited about the genuine attitude, but we are realistically a year or more away from some semblance of normalcy.

Right now, she is at the place where she is really trying hard to understand my needs, but they really do feel alien to her. She gets up every morning and spends an hour on the lesson plans from her therapist. When she begins to feel nearly suicidal, I can see her follow the self-affirmation exercises. In the current phase of therapy - she's supposed to work through much of this alone, but approach me in a very specific way, assuring me that I don't own the responsibility for her depressive thoughts. I have a very real deadline that I've given myself, but for now, have a firm expectation of continual improvement.


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## LexusNexus (Aug 19, 2011)

Halien,

I wish I can better express myself but English is not first language. I am not trying to diagnose your case, and I know everybody is different. I been reading TAM for almost 2 years now, registered for one. The concept of all the posts are almost identical. The concept are as follows: I only wish my wife would understand me, or I wish my husband would only understand how I feel. What Green Pearl said in her last post are exactly what I mean. Before the marriage Man and Woman do their best to satisfy each other. They have no problem show affection, love, appreciation, have sex, give flowers, be nice to each others. Once you got married everything is gone. My therapist told me in relationship you have Giver and Taker, if giver gave too much he start to resent Taker, and be mean. Like Green Perl said spouses have to reciprocate. It has to be balance. 

My wife has interesting theory; I am personally a Giver. I give my wife gifts, love, affection, my undivided attention, I provide for her, I take care of my son. She thinks she doesn't have to reciprocate because thats what unconditional love is all about. You give, but you don't ask anything in return.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I can’t even begin to imagine what it’s like living with a suicidal wife Halien. I think in marriage we all make compromises and sacrifices in one way or another. As long as you still love, appreciate and respect her you’ll hang in there and do your best to improve things. At the end of the day that’s all we can do. You’ll know if you are sacrificing too much, when things are so out of balance that you’ll want to move on. And if you do at the very least you’ll know you gave it your very best shots.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

LexusNexus said:


> Halien,
> 
> I wish I can better express myself but English is not first language. I am not trying to diagnose your case, and I know everybody is different. I been reading TAM for almost 2 years now, registered for one. The concept of all the posts are almost identical. The concept are as follows: I only wish my wife would understand me, or I wish my husband would only understand how I feel. What Green Pearl said in her last post are exactly what I mean. Before the marriage Man and Woman do their best to satisfy each other. They have no problem show affection, love, appreciation, have sex, give flowers, be nice to each others. Once you got married everything is gone. My therapist told me in relationship you have Giver and Taker, if giver gave too much he start to resent Taker, and be mean. Like Green Perl said spouses have to reciprocate. It has to be balance.
> 
> My wife has interesting theory; I am personally a Giver. I give my wife gifts, love, affection, my undivided attention, I provide for her, I take care of my son. She thinks she doesn't have to reciprocate because thats what unconditional love is all about. You give, but you don't ask anything in return.


I understand what you are saying. Thank you. It helps to find out that there are other people who face very similar struggles.


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