# enough reason?...



## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

It's been a long time since I was here. Well, since I was mostly on the SEX section, and it's still relevant....

Has anyone REALLY left/divorced over a bad sex life? 

The actual situation is a lot more than that. But I am often amazed by how many people would call it quits when the sex is not working. Many people in my circle can ignore that(or just completely forget about it); they simply live as housemates, parents of kids, etc.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

jennifer1986 said:


> It's been a long time since I was here. Well, since I was mostly on the SEX section, and it's still relevant....
> 
> Has anyone REALLY left/divorced over a bad sex life?
> 
> The actual situation is a lot more than that. But I am often amazed by how many people would call it quits when the sex is not working. Many people in my circle can ignore that(or just completely forget about it); they simply live as housemates, parents of kids, etc.


The lack of sex wasn't the ONLY reason for me leaving my marriage, but that and my wife's refusal to work at fixing the problem were the biggest reasons for leaving.

C


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lack of a sex life was not the only reason for me divorcing him. But it was a big part of it. And ditto on the his refusal to work to fix things, not just the lack of sex but other things as well.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Well, there is no refusal to fix the problems--because there is a denial that there are problems. To be more precise, he does acknowledge there are problems, but he does not comprehend the severity of them. 

I think if I am so miserable that I cannot fall asleep until middle of night (he doesn't know because he's sleeping somewhere else), and I can normally sleep STANDING UP (from years of medical training), and I feel my heart sink each time I think about every method I have tried to make things work yet failed, it might just never work out.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

His refusal to acknowledge the severity of the problems is the same as him refusing to work on fixing the problems.

Why are you still with him if you are this miserable?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Anyone that can't be openminded enough to consider they may have a flaw is virtually guaranteed to be unwilling to fix it


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Haha see I'm still up. 

Well, it's same old story. A good man. A good Dad. Two nice kids. No financial problems. 

That's the weird thing. Life could be so good, or at least so easy. 

But it's not. He's just still always frustrated because he "does too much". I tell him I do quite a bit also and I'm already doing the best I can. So to summarize, I am just not up to his standard. I have enough self esteem to know who I am but just cannot take criticism constantly for the rest of my life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I would argue that a man who constantly puts his wife down, criticizes her and makes her life miserable is not a good man nor a good father.

A good man is loving and supportive of his wife. A good father is loving of the mother of his children.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

PBear said:


> The lack of sex wasn't the ONLY reason for me leaving my marriage, but that and my wife's refusal to work at fixing the problem were the biggest reasons for leaving.
> 
> C


This. But reverse the genders.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

jennifer1986 said:


> Haha see I'm still up.
> 
> Well, it's same old story. A good man. A good Dad. Two nice kids. No financial problems.
> 
> ...


My wife pulls the same thing. She does absolutely nothing as far as house work, cooking and cleaning. She makes me and the kids do all of it and she does nothing. She is very very lazy, and then she wonders why we're so pissed at her. Saying that you have self esteem issues is no excuse, many people hide behind this as nothing but an excuse. If you don't want the criticism, ask your husband what you could do to last least meet some of his expectations, you'll probably make him so happy he won't know what to do with himself.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It wasn't the ONLY reason I left (lack of respect, lack of non-sexual affection, etc.), but a sexless marriage was definitely a major factor in my decision to divorce her and it was a major contributor to my unhappiness with my situation. Divorcing her turned out to be one of the best decisions I've ever made.


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## omgitselaine (Sep 5, 2013)

jennifer1986 said:


> Haha see I'm still up.
> 
> Well, it's same old story. A good man. A good Dad. Two nice kids. No financial problems.
> 
> ...


That's great that he is all those good things and him being this way probably makes it harder to seek a divorce/separation however life is waaay too short to " settle " for anything short of pure happiness every moment , every day of your life.

Move on ........ there are great men out there who will want to give you the happiness you deserve. Good luck


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> A good man is loving and supportive of his wife. A good father is loving of the mother of his children.



Let's not get carried away here...

A good man will use any and all means necessary to protect himself or his children and will make sure to point out to his wife that she is doing this thing wrong or that thing wrong, etc. Otherwise he's just enabling unacceptable behavior.

Case in point - my wife gets into the two year itch on every job she ever had - she is in a great occupation but does not seem to comprehend the reality of looking for a job at 55. She has seen this strategy fail a few times, but back then the job market was good and we did not have two kids in college.

So, am I supposed to be loving and supporting when she makes decisions that make the North Koreans look rational? 

I'm voting for tough love personally.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

jennifer1986 said:


> Has anyone REALLY left/divorced over a bad sex life?


Yes, I did. 

And I have never regretted it. I am in a long term relationship now with the love of my life and am deliriously happy.

When I was in my 20-year marriage, I thought I would never be happy again. I couldn't conceive of ever being in a happy, healthy relationship again. And lo and behold I found one, still pinch myself after nearly 4 years to be sure I'm not dreaming it all.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jennifer1986 said:


> Haha see I'm still up.
> 
> Well, it's same old story. A good man. A good Dad. Two nice kids. No financial problems.
> 
> ...


Could you please clarify something here so that we have a better idea what is going on...

Your husband says that he is doing too much.
You say that you are doing the best you can. But apparently what you do is not up to his standard.

So here are some questions.

What does he do that he thinks is too much?

How many hours a week does he work at a job?
How many hours a week do you work at a job?

How much does he do around the house?
How much do you do around the house?

What do you do that is not up to his standards? Could you please give a couple of examples so that we understand.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

john117 said:


> Let's not get carried away here...
> 
> A good man will use any and all means necessary to protect himself or his children and will make sure to point out to his wife that she is doing this thing wrong or that thing wrong, etc. Otherwise he's just enabling unacceptable behavior.
> 
> ...


Yes, constructive criticism is warranted. Both the husband and the wife are entitled to use this when needed.

But there are also people who nit pick everything their spouse does. This is beyond constructive criticism. I got the impression from the OP that her husband's been nitpicking... to the point that she cannot even sleep at night due to this.

I've asked her for clarification because people, myself included, have been making assumptions about this topic.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I copied the below post from one of the OP’s earlier threads so that those who think that the OP’s husband is just doing what a husband with constructive criticism can get a better idea of what she is talking about.




jennifer1986 said:


> Anyone that has read my thread might know I classify my H as passive-aggressive.
> 
> Concise background info before I mention our argument:
> 
> ...


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/47727-hes-never-wrong.html


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Those of us who live with BSC partners (bat sheet crazy) know better than to not pick at everything, but some people have some pervasively bad habits which can't be addressed without resorting to good ole' shaming or talking down techniques.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

john117 said:


> Those of us who live with BSC partners (bat sheet crazy) know better than to not pick at everything, but some people have some pervasively bad habits which can't be addressed without resorting to good ole' shaming or talking down techniques.


Wow... Maybe the one doing the "good ole' shaming or talking down techniques" is the one who is really BSC....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I wish.

Try hammering into someone's head that raising your voice in the middle of conversation or keep interrupting or both is bad... You try the polite ways first. Then some good cop bad cop methods. Present evidence. Nothing. The next time she's on a conference call (works from home) and some unfortunate junior analyst in Bangalore dares to object to my wife's musings, here come the decibels.

She does the same thing to colleagues, parents, children, etc and she generally ends up classified as "aggressive b!tch" by some people. Thankfully she has her reputation to protect her from harm's way but even that does not last indefinitely. 

Now, kindly tell me if the use of more radical techniques would not be approved in this BSC case or whether I'm BSC for pointing out the inappropriate behavior.

Some people are BSC because they think that rules of civilized societies apply to others, not them.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> My wife pulls the same thing. She does absolutely nothing as far as house work, cooking and cleaning. She makes me and the kids do all of it and she does nothing. She is very very lazy, and then she wonders why we're so pissed at her. Saying that you have self esteem issues is no excuse, many people hide behind this as nothing but an excuse. If you don't want the criticism, ask your husband what you could do to last least meet some of his expectations, you'll probably make him so happy he won't know what to do with himself.


It's funny how you just jump on and assume the OP is in the same situation as your wife. Well, I can't comment on your spouse. The way you talk about her, you might as well divorce her. And you are reading my post wrong. I said I have good self esteem now, finally after years of having bad self esteem from my husband's criticism. I never said I was "lazy" or not willing to work because my self esteem is low. Thanks to Elegirl, who dug up my old post, I don't have to explain why I am different from your wife.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Could you please clarify something here so that we have a better idea what is going on...
> 
> Your husband says that he is doing too much.
> You say that you are doing the best you can. But apparently what you do is not up to his standard.
> ...


Hey, thanks so much for your subsequent post, I read it and was like "wow, it's exactly the same thing now, amazing, I hardly remember that!"

But I am a very systematic person, so I have to answer the questions
(1) My husband manages the clinic. These days I work even less than my partners, but we still make good money. I have told him if he doesn't like to manage it, we can sell it to my partners. But I know he LIKES to go there, which is fine with me, but I have no interest in burying myself 5 days in the clinic. I ALWAYS work on Saturdays because no one else would. I handle all the calls because I am the boss. I take all the S%&t because I am the responsible party. 

For anyone that thinks a physician not working full-time is lazy, please give me your reason. Medical school costs a lot, but having partners work this way has actually paid everything off and much more. 

(2) So, counting my husband's "hours" is extremely difficult. But let's say he goes in 4-5 days a week and spends 1-2 hrs there each day. 

(3) I work 2 days a week, but I go in more when partners are on vacation, etc. 

(4) My husband does a lot around the house, with a good reason. He is (a) not satisfied with my "quality", so if I have wiped the counter, he would often wipe it again and point out a crumb. This has caused me to clean repetitively sometimes (b) he cannot wait. For example, most moms I know use dishwasher, but that means dishes might pile in the sink or in the dishwasher until evening. Bad idea. Need to be hand-washed immediately. 

(5) So to cap it off, cleaning I do is either not good enough or too slow. 

Recently, the big issue is the kid. My supervision on homework, piano, etc, is not up to his standard. If the kid is doing 20 min of reading and I am reading next to him, my H says "can't you wait until he's asleep to do your stuff". I explain he doesn't need to be watched every second. Sometimes I say "go play piano now, 15 min", then I am in the room on computer, but I can hear him and go out when he plays wrong (I know how to play, H does not), then H really blows the top off and says "why are you in front of that stupid computer, if you don't want to deal with the kid I will".


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

john117 said:


> Those of us who live with BSC partners (bat sheet crazy) know better than to not pick at everything, but some people have some pervasively bad habits which can't be addressed without resorting to good ole' shaming or talking down techniques.


I'm not quite sure what you mean exactly, but neither of us is bat sheet crazy, and if you think your spouse is BSC and therefore deserve to be *talked down*, please divorce her. Enough said.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm not at the divorce stage quite yet but it is on the horizon.

My wifes lack of interest in sex, refusal (why should I do something I have no interest in?) to even try something I might like (like a BJ) and her inability (or refusal) to even try to understand that sex means more to men than women or to even reach a compromise probably = 50%

The other 50% is made up of her inability (or refusal) to take any responsibility for anything. All she can do is shop. She refuses to pay bills, call a plumber, apply for a new passport for our son etc. She says she doesnt know how to do it...when I show her and make her she deliberately ****s things up.
Its as if the lights are on but no one is in.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Jennifer,

Your husband sounds very Type A, anal retentive, passive aggressive. Exactly like my ex was. It is very hard to live with these people because they are pathologic. Ex went to counseling many times, was made aware that the rest of the world doesn't "freak out" over a crumb on the counter, but it is VERY difficult to rise above this pathology and become more laid back. It just isn't in their constitution.

Because they are passive aggressive, they turn it all around on you. Of course there's nothing wrong with being on the computer in the next room while your son is practicing the piano. In fact, that's entirely normal. You certainly don't need to be sitting next to him monitoring every note. But because your husband is a skilled manipulator, he will turn it back on you and make you start questioning your innate parenting skills until you actually DO think, "Gee, maybe I need to be in there monitoring every note." It's crazy-making behavior on the part of your husband, but it is VERY difficult to make this personality type understand how anal they are, that they are not "right", just a different viewpoint.

In the end, you have to weigh everything against your own happiness -- in my case, his personality was soul-killing for me (and my kids) and I was dying a drawn out, 20-year death. I left.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> ...But because your husband is a skilled manipulator, he will turn it back on you and make you start questioning your innate parenting skills until you actually DO think, "Gee, maybe I need to be in there monitoring every note." It's crazy-making behavior on the part of your husband, but it is VERY difficult to make this personality type understand how anal they are, that they are not "right", just a different viewpoint.


That is absolutely right. These are all getting old, and the question I face now is actually not even how I feel. I rose above that. Now it is actually how HE feels. He is beginning to harbor resentment towards me because I do not constantly try to modify my behavior to please him anymore. I know that is a no-win battle. Now he starts telling me we are so different so he will "leave me to do the things I want". I can tell you what I did--I took up an apprenticeship (2 mornings a week) at a local bakery since that's my passion. I held a baking class for school moms (this also has social purposes since our kids are in same class). I baked some cookies with my son which resulted in a messy kitchen for 2 hours. He just could not even watch this "messiness". I rushed to clean afterwards to no avail. He starts not sleeping in the same room with me. He said I care about my interests more anyways. BTW, it's not that he completely doesn't want sex. When he felt like it, he would ask for it, but the rest of the time he turns a cold face, repetitively telling me he wants to "leave me alone".


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Jennifer,

Please read my thread here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/156297-those-low-sex-marriage-considering-leaving.html

and PM me if you like. Please don't wait *1/3 of your life* like I did, to extricate yourself from this toxic person.

PM me if you'd like. I am here.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jennifer1986 said:


> I'm not quite sure what you mean exactly, but neither of us is bat sheet crazy, and if you think your spouse is BSC and therefore deserve to be *talked down*, please divorce her. Enough said.



Divorce is an option but in its own time. My concern is not the BSC or it's magnitude but rather, rational decisions that are the result of cultural and other influences. 

It's easy to apply the BSC sticker on the divorce paperwork and file, but there's more to it than that.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

This bothers me and gives great insight into your husband.



> So my H got a call from my elder son, who's in boarding school. He told Dad he did not do so swell on one final, but the grade should be ok (A- maybe). My H blew his top off @ me (he knows better than doing it @ his son, who has long chosen to ignore Dad's crap).


For what purpose would a man be upset his kid received an A- on a final?
It implies he expects perfection from everyone around him and that ain't healthy.

My kid is gifted, straights A's her whole life, never even a "B".
If she came home tomorrow to tell me she got a "C" on her algebra final I'd talk to her about what she thinks happened, ask if I could help fix it for her then drop the subject until I had reason to raise it again.

Losing your cool over an A- minus is kinda psychotic...sorry.

I would advise you to learn from your son



> My H blew his top off @ me (he knows better than doing it @ his son, who has long chosen to ignore Dad's crap).


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Happy, I read your thread, might PM you when I have more time. It's interesting how some people jumped to conclusion and sort of attacked you (and they read your post wrong in the first place). 

I have recently come to a very calm conclusion that my H might need the impossible spouse. She should do good housework, make good money, be highly educated, supervise the kids well with infinite patience, and have very few interests of her own. The fact is, my H only had one GF before he married me. I think he might be a bit unrealistic here. To make matters worse, actually we both married virgin. I have in the recent years tried to improve our sex life, but made very little progress. With hardly any kind words or intimacy, obviously I can't work on that at this point.


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