# Giving lifts to opposite sex co-worker



## Tom_

My wife and I are in our late 40's. 

A married couple (30's) who work at my wife's place of work couldn't use their car recently. My wife offered to drop the male coworker home (20min journey) after a shift. She told me afterwards even though we have a boundary where we tell before such a situation. 2 days days later his partner asked if my wife could pick the husband up on her way to work - no explanation about the reason or how long this might continue. 

I'm uneasy about my wife going out of her way to pick up a male co-worker on a dark morning and driving him to and from work. I have no problem with her taking the female co-worker. I have no concern that anything inappropriate is happening but I'm not comfortable with car sharing opposite sex co-workers.

In the past my wife had the attitude that it's better to say nothing to avoid upsetting someone. This caused us an issue a few years ago where she was put in an inappropriate work situation, working in someones house alone then the male owner of the house would turn up. My wife decided it better to not tell me at first. I found it inappropriate and my insecurities went from 0-60. She had been distant, not able to look me in the eye around this time and there were other things that made my gut realise the situation was bad. We got over that, to be honest, with help from TAM (and major rug-sweep?).

So I'm not looking to re-trace history, I'm aware of the past triggering and looking for advice on the new situation and how best to handle it. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Andy1001

Tom_ said:


> My wife and I are in our late 40's.
> 
> A married couple (30's) who work at my wife's place of work couldn't use their car recently. My wife offered to drop the male coworker home (20min journey) after a shift. She told me afterwards even though we have a boundary where we tell before such a situation. 2 days days later his partner asked if my wife could pick the husband up on her way to work - no explanation about the reason or how long this might continue.
> 
> I'm uneasy about my wife going out of her way to pick up a male co-worker on a dark morning and driving him to and from work. I have no problem with her taking the female co-worker. I have no concern that anything inappropriate is happening but I'm not comfortable with car sharing opposite sex co-workers.
> 
> In the past my wife had the attitude that it's better to say nothing to avoid upsetting someone. This caused us an issue a few years ago where she was put in an inappropriate work situation, working in someones house alone then the male owner of the house would turn up. My wife decided it better to not tell me at first. I found it inappropriate and my insecurities went from 0-60. She had been distant, not able to look me in the eye around this time and there were other things that made my gut realise the situation was bad. We got over that, to be honest, with help from TAM (and major rug-sweep?).
> 
> So I'm not looking to re-trace history, I'm aware of the past triggering and looking for advice on the new situation and how best to handle it.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


“No I’m sorry I won’t be able to collect your husband or drop him off”
That’s all she has to say and if she can’t or won’t then you have more problems than you think.


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## Tom_

Thanks Andy1001. So you agree it's inappropriate?


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## Andy1001

Tom_ said:


> Thanks Andy1001. So you agree it's inappropriate?


Your wife has already lied to you by omission about being alone with a man in his house,she knows you are uncomfortable with her in this type of situation. She either respects your boundaries or she doesn’t. 
Do not allow her to switch this back on you by calling you controlling,tell her very clearly that you rug swept once but you are not prepared to do it again. 
And yes it is inappropriate.


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## BobSimmons

Here's the thing, there has to be better communication on your wife's part.

Inherently she has done nothing wrong per say (according to what you've written)

Firstly has she cheated before?

With the house situation, was she working at a married couples house, why would she be working in a house and not have an agreement with the home owner or not know his comings or going? How long were they alone in the house for and for how long?

Surely if she knows you don't like her being alone with other men then she wouldn't have agreed to give this bloke a ride, repeatedly and say nothing about it, maybe once is ok but repeatedly I'd say no.

*I have no concern that anything inappropriate is happening *

Oh but you do. At least be honest with yourself. The co worker is not a serial killer but there is a reason you don't want this happening.

The best way to approach it is to shut it down immediately. No dancing around it. She knows she's crossing a line in the sand.


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## Livvie

I don't think it's inappropriate to give a married opposite sex co worker having vehicle issues a ride, especially since she knows both the husband and the wife.


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## Married but Happy

It's completely normal and appropriate to give rides to a coworker for a short period of time, and wouldn't even require mentioning unless it were ongoing or changed our daily schedule - but we'd of course mention it as it isn't our usual routine. Past issues may make it an issue, but without prior inappropriate behavior, this wouldn't be a problem. Many times I've needed a ride from a female coworker, or vice versa. It's just common kindness.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Livvie said:


> I don't think it's inappropriate to give a married opposite sex co worker having vehicle issues a ride, especially since she knows both the husband and the wife.


I agree, 100%.

Where is this paranoia coming from?

One of our janitors at work (about 10 years younger than myself) had an accident with his car and needed a ride to and from work for 2 days while it was being fixed. 

Oh *HORROR* of horrors!!! He asked ME if I would be kind enough to pick him up and drop him off those two days because I was one of the very few people who passed by his area. 

I'm _sure_ he *must* have wrecked his car on purpose JUST so we could use those stolen minutes on the way to work to have hot monkey sex in my car. Yes sir, any time a fellow coworker needs a ride, that's automatic 'code' for, "we're going to have sex at 6:00 am in the car on the way to work because that's SUCH a turn on."

Your paranoia is your biggest problem, not your wife. Most of us women have been put in uncomfortable work situations at least once in our lives, and for many of us, way more than just once (but I'm not putting on some idiotic pink hat and protesting because of it). But it's absurd to assume that a guy who simply needs a damned ride to work will automatically see this as some kind of "opportunity" to get himself some sex, and not merely a simple act of kindness from a coworker. 

That is just so over the top.


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## wild jade

I give co-workers, male and female, rides all the time. I do it because ... they don't have cars. 

Also, back when I didn't have a car, lots of people, both male and female, were kind enough to give me rides from time to time, and so I see it as just one of those small things in life that can make someone's day better.


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## Diana7

For us it would definitely be something that we would tell each other about and discuss. If it was short term, say a week or two, then I think that would be ok. I am one for clear boundaries with the opposite sex and being in a car together is quite 'cozy' so for me its not something that I would want to happen long term, and its not something that I would do long term. 

How does the wife get to work? 

My husband gives a lady from our church a lift sometimes but being that she is 82 I am not bothered.:grin2:


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## Rowan

OP, if your wife has a history of cheating, then I get it. That's not really clear from your first post. Otherwise, I don't really understand the paranoia regarding giving an opposite-sex co-worker a lift. If they were setting up a regular carpool together, just the two of them, then maybe that might make me uncomfortable. But a one-off situation, or a rare favor? That just wouldn't bother me at all. In the absence of other red flags, I just wouldn't see that as a problem. There's nothing inherently inappropriate about a woman giving a male co-worker a ride home at the request of the man's wife. 

Basically, it sounds like you and your wife are on different pages. You seem to have a boundary that she does not understand, or perhaps just doesn't share. Talk about it. Come to some agreement regarding time alone with opposite-sex co-workers that applies to both of you. If you cannot agree, then you need to decide if this is the hill you want to die on regarding your marriage, or if this is something you're willing to let go of. You cannot really control what your wife does. You can only control your reactions to the decisions she makes. If giving a lift to a male co-worker is a deal-breaker for you, then so be it.


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## FalCod

You have to live within your comfort zone. I know people that avoid any one-on-one contact with people of the opposite gender (aside from work meetings). Those are the boundaries that they have mutually set for their marriage. My wife and I aren't like that at all. We are regularly in social situations with opposite gender people. We trust each other and are comfortable with that.

There is no "right" answer here. Just make sure that you and your spouse are on the same page and that you both behave according to your mutual expectations. Be aware, however, that there are costs to taking a more "puritan" approach, particularly if it is outside the norm for your social group or very contrary to your spouses expectations. It could build resentment. It could also create a "forbidden fruit" attraction. I'm a much bigger fan of the "marry someone trustworthy and trust them" approach.


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## Rhubarb

FalCod said:


> I know people that avoid any one-on-one contact with people of the opposite gender (aside from work meetings).


I'm one of those people, but I look at something like this as work related as long as it isn't happening every day. In this particular case the other guy is even married and she knows the guys wife. Unless there is some reason to distrust her, like for instance some past history of infidelity, it seems like there is some serious paranoia at work here.


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## Tom_

Thanks for your replies. I guess being a guy I know what (some) guys are like and I'd feel more comfortable knowing more than just the name of the guy who was going to sit next to my wife in a confined space for maybe an hour a day. 

However, the general consensus so far seems to be to let it go, stop being paranoid and get a hold on how long the car share continues which has to be good advice.


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## 269370

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I agree, 100%.
> 
> Where is this paranoia coming from?
> 
> One of our janitors at work (about 10 years younger than myself) had an accident with his car and needed a ride to and from work for 2 days while it was being fixed.
> 
> Oh *HORROR* of horrors!!! He asked ME if I would be kind enough to pick him up and drop him off those two days because I was one of the very few people who passed by his area.
> 
> I'm _sure_ he *must* have wrecked his car on purpose JUST so we could use those stolen minutes on the way to work to have hot monkey sex in my car. Yes sir, any time a fellow coworker needs a ride, that's automatic 'code' for, "we're going to have sex at 6:00 am in the car on the way to work because that's SUCH a turn on."



You obviously don’t have a penis for a brain 🧠 



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## WilliamM

To start with I do think they are abusing their friendship with your wife. Your wife is letting them take advantage of her.

But I think your issue is your wife being reluctant to speak to you openly about things. It is her seeming secretive ways which is the problem.

Consider my problems! My wife is bisexual, doesn’t work, and she likes to help people a lot. Should I say she can’t give anyone a ride because everybody is a potential sex partner for her? We cope. But we have dealt with any issues immediately. She is pretty different, so we deal with things outside the box. 

You, both of you, have to face your feelings and deal with them in a way that makes you both feel safe and secure. Unfortunately your wife doesn’t seem to be on board with finding solutions which work for both of you.

It is your job to make certain she knows this must be addressed. It bothers you, so make sure you don’t just let it fester without a resolution. Stop the merry go round and make it a big deal for her, too.

Otherwise 8 years from now you’ll be here complaining about problems, and your wife will be claiming she didn’t know or understand it was actually important.

When I had any problem my wife knew, without the slightest doubt, solving it was one of the most important things in her life, but I don’t recommend people be like me. Just be certain you communicate without equivocation.


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## Lostinthought61

Tom, 

lets focus on your relationship, specifically the level of communications you and your wife have...i sense there is issues there in being open and honest with each other? then there is also the sense of trust between the both of you, has there been cause to doubt that trust?


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## Diana7

FalCod said:


> You have to live within your comfort zone. I know people that avoid any one-on-one contact with people of the opposite gender (aside from work meetings). Those are the boundaries that they have mutually set for their marriage. My wife and I aren't like that at all. We are regularly in social situations with opposite gender people. We trust each other and are comfortable with that.
> 
> There is no "right" answer here. Just make sure that you and your spouse are on the same page and that you both behave according to your mutual expectations. Be aware, however, that there are costs to taking a more "puritan" approach, particularly if it is outside the norm for your social group or very contrary to your spouses expectations. It could build resentment. It could also create a "forbidden fruit" attraction. I'm a much bigger fan of the "marry someone trustworthy and trust them" approach.


For myself, the boundaries I have arent because of lack of trust. My husband is the most laid back, easy going man I have ever met, and he has never ever got jealous about anything. However, because I have seen so many marriages ending due to 2 people getting too close, people who their spouses also trusted, some in my own family, I have strong boundaries for myself. 
Most affairs are between people who their spouses thought they could trust. 

I see it as being sensible and wise. Like locking your home or car. No one is immune to temptation in certain circumstances. I have never cheated nor do I ever intend to, (married for 37 years in total in 2 marriages), but to believe that we are above temptation or that our spouse is above temptation isn't a good idea. Pride comes before a fall as the saying goes.


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## Tom_

I've explained briefly the reason where the trust issues came from in my opening post. That is in the past and we've both learned from it. We do have a good relationship, love each other and can talk openly better than in the past. Oh and the person who ranted on a few posts ago She'sStillGotIt - a bit unnecessary I thought but as long as she feels better for letting off some steam


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## Diana7

Tom_ said:


> Thanks for your replies. I guess being a guy I know what (some) guys are like and I'd feel more comfortable knowing more than just the name of the guy who was going to sit next to my wife in a confined space for maybe an hour a day.
> 
> However, the general consensus so far seems to be to let it go, stop being paranoid and get a hold on how long the car share continues which has to be good advice.


How does his wife get to work? 
I think its very sensible to have good boundaries, but these needs to be talked about between you both. 

I have a very good book called 'Hedges' written by a man about this very subject. He actually wont give a woman on her own a lift, but if its totally unavoidable, he rings his wife and tells her about it so its all above board. Once secrecy starts its going to undermine the trust between you.


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## 269370

Tom_ said:


> I've explained briefly the reason where the trust issues came from in my opening post. That is in the past and we've both learned from it. We do have a good relationship, love each other and can talk openly better than in the past. Oh and the person who ranted on a few posts ago She'sStillGotIt - a bit unnecessary I thought but as long as she feels better for letting off some steam



Oh you ain’t seen nothing yet. There’s so much steam there it would be enough to power all of Finland for a decade.   


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## Tom_

Diana7 said:


> For myself, the boundaries I have arent because of lack of trust. My husband is the most laid back, easy going man I have ever met, and he has never ever got jealous about anything. However, because I have seen so many marriages ending due to 2 people getting too close, people who their spouses also trusted, some in my own family, I have strong boundaries for myself.
> Most affairs are between people who their spouses thought they could trust.
> 
> I see it as being sensible and wise. Like locking your home or car. No one is immune to temptation in certain circumstances. I have never cheated nor do I ever intend to, (married for 37 years in total in 2 marriages), but to believe that we are above temptation or that our spouse is above temptation isn't a good idea. Pride comes before a fall as the saying goes.


Thanks Diana, you have eloquently expressed how I'm feeling. I do trust my wife but I'm not in the habit of trusting other guys without giving it some consideration and of course, discussion. I'd expect the same with roles reversed. Maybe those more blasé replies are from younger posters? When you see couples around you in their late 40's early 50's breaking up left, right and centre, maybe you hold a little tighter onto what you have? I'm sure someone will say that's the wrong thing to do though.


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## Andy1001

Tom_ said:


> Thanks Diana, you have eloquently expressed how I'm feeling. I do trust my wife but I'm not in the habit of trusting other guys without giving it some consideration and of course, discussion. I'd expect the same with roles reversed. Maybe those more blasé replies are from younger posters? When you see couples around you in their late 40's early 50's breaking up left, right and centre, maybe you hold a little tighter onto what you have? I'm sure someone will say that's the wrong thing to do though.


You are entitled to place whatever boundaries on your relationship that you feel are necessary.
Your wife can either agree or disagree,that is her prerogative.You need to make it clear you will not stand by and watch her behave in a way that you feel is damaging to your marriage.
You have hinted at some previous inappropriate behavior without going into any details,but seeing as this is a marriage forum and you yourself mentioned rug sweeping we can surmise it wasn’t a good time in your marriage.
You need to look up mate guarding and also do not allow anyone to tell you that you are overreacting.There are countless stories on this forum about marriages breaking up over this very thing,close proximity to a person of the opposite sex with no one else around.
I find it ironic that a lot of the people telling you that you are overreacting are females and almost all the men are telling you to stop this in its tracks.
Men know how men think.Women think they do,but they don’t.


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## Cooper

Personally I see no issue with giving a ride to a co worker a couple of times, helping others should never be wrong. Could something happen between them during the ride to work? I suppose so, but good gosh you can't expect your spouse to live in a bubble and not interact with the rest of the world. 

I would let this one go.


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## Steve1000

Tom_ said:


> Thanks Diana, you have eloquently expressed how I'm feeling. I do trust my wife but I'm not in the habit of trusting other guys without giving it some consideration and of course, discussion. I'd expect the same with roles reversed. Maybe those more blasé replies are from younger posters? When you see couples around you in their late 40's early 50's breaking up left, right and centre, maybe you hold a little tighter onto what you have? I'm sure someone will say that's the wrong thing to do though.


For me, the issue would be driving out of the way 20 minutes whether it is a male or a female passenger. I would gladly do it once and probably even twice, but after that, I would start to feel taken advantage of. A couple of years ago, after biking to work, the weather unexpectedly became a rainy afternoon. I asked a female co-worker who lived near me at that time to give me a ride home. Honestly speaking, I would have felt like she was quite strange if she told me that she couldn't give me a life home because she's married and I'm of the opposite sex. Your wife opened up to tell you that she was asked to give a male co-worker a ride home. I think that for your sake, you should encourage her openness by not making a big deal out of it. If she later regular gives the same guy a ride home, then my advice would be different.


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## toblerone

edit: nevermind, found what I'm looking for.


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## Mike6211

Tom_ said:


> 2 days later *his partner asked* if my wife could pick the husband up on her way to work - no explanation about the reason or how long this might continue.


As in, you *know for yourself * (how?) that *the partner* (of your wife's co-worker) *asked* .. etc

or

Your wife *told you* that (it was) *the partner* of your wife's co-worker who *asked* .. etc ?


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## Diana7

Tom_ said:


> Thanks Diana, you have eloquently expressed how I'm feeling. I do trust my wife but I'm not in the habit of trusting other guys without giving it some consideration and of course, discussion. I'd expect the same with roles reversed. Maybe those more blasé replies are from younger posters? When you see couples around you in their late 40's early 50's breaking up left, right and centre, maybe you hold a little tighter onto what you have? I'm sure someone will say that's the wrong thing to do though.


Some people hate it when others have strong boundaries. I have no idea why. You would think at they would be pleased that people are wanting to protect their marriages. Maybe they don't know many people whose marriages have been destroyed by affairs? I know many, and most of them was because 2 people got too close and that led to more. 

I am not American but do you remember the outcry recently when Mike Pence said that he wouldn't have a meeting alone with a woman especially if drink was involved? I thought, good for you. I respect him for that. The feminists thought it was appalling, but why wasn't I surprised by that. :|


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Some people hate it when others have strong boundaries. I have no idea why. You would think at they would be pleased that people are wanting to protect their marriages. Maybe they don't know many people whose marriages have been destroyed by affairs? I know many, and most of them was because 2 people got too close and that led to more.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not American but do you remember the outcry recently when Mike Pence said that he wouldn't have a meeting alone with a woman especially if drink was involved? I thought, good for you. I respect him for that. The feminists thought it was appalling, but why wasn't I surprised by that. :|



There isn’t much feminists DON’T find appalling; if you ignore them it’s disrespectful if you notice or compliment, them it’s sexual harassment. You can’t win. Might as well cut off your balls   and disappear.

The car thing, I don’t know. Husband possibly has better instincts/reasons to be suspicious. I would be more annoyed that my wife had to make such a detour.


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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> There isn’t much feminists DON’T find appalling; if you ignore them it’s disrespectful if you notice or compliment, them it’s sexual harassment. You can’t win. Might as well cut off your balls   and disappear.
> 
> The car thing, I don’t know. Husband possibly has better instincts/reasons to be suspicious. I would be more annoyed that my wife had to make such a detour.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree, thats why I would never ever call myself a feminist because in the main they are such awful, hateful, bitter women. Many hate men with a passion and hate women who don't see things the way they do. Its very sad. :frown2:


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## Rubix Cubed

@Tom_ ,

It was a situation almost identical to yours that brought me to TAM. I wouldn't have given it much thought before that incident, but a combination of factors much like yours (lies of omission, delayed admission, etc.) were what crystallized the situation (and it was a 7 hour drive after a week long trip, too much time for personal/relationship talk, which happened) into something more threatening or at least a telltale of some of your communication and boundary issues that need addressing. Take it for what it is, be vigilant and keep your eyes open. At the very least this points out the difference in the two of you's expected boundaries. Discuss the problems you have with this with your wife now, before resentment sets in, and try to get on the same page.

On a separate note, she shouldn't all of a sudden be giving him rides for no reason, like after his car is fixed.That's taking advantage of the situation. If there is a valid reason and she tells you ahead of time, I see no issue with it. The fact that his wife called your wife to get the second ride is a good sign that maybe they have some boundaries about comms with the opposite sex outside of work.


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## SunCMars

On this ride thing.

When in college, a young lady whom I had no interest in whatsoever lived about half way from my house to work.
She always took a bus to school.

We worked in the biology lab, setting up experiments.
When she found out where I lived she asked me if I would pick her up and drop her off from school....most days.

She offered to pay me for some of the gasoline. I always refused.

This went on for about a school calendar year. Then I went to another campus and could not pick her up..
Her mother called me and was very upset that I did this. She did not give me a chance to say much. She quickly hung up??

Years later, I found out she told everybody that I was her fiancee. And that I broke up with her for no reason.
Her mother was always very friendly and would pack me lunches and snacks for school.

She told her mother we were dating and that we were in love.
The girl was pretty and was somewhat shy. I never led her on. No kissing, no touching just talking and a ride. 

Oh boy!


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## toblerone

Diana7 said:


> I am not American but do you remember the outcry recently when Mike Pence said that he wouldn't have a meeting alone with a woman especially if drink was involved? I thought, good for you. I respect him for that. The feminists thought it was appalling, but why wasn't I surprised by that. :|


Feminists think it is appalling because it is another hurdle that makes it difficult for a woman to get anywhere in a career if she is never allowed to be alone with a man for any point of time. All meetings would have to be monitored (or, let's be real here: never happen at all) by a third party. Why don't male and male meetings have the same rule of not being alone?


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## TAMAT

Tom_,

You wrote, *She had been distant, not able to look me in the eye around this time and there were other things that made my gut realise the situation was bad. We got over that, to be honest, with help from TAM (and major rug-sweep?).*

So you never got an adequate explanation of what was going on then, at that time was she overly protective of her phone or did she give you the I love you but am not in love with you? 

Tamat


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## Diana7

toblerone said:


> Feminists think it is appalling because it is another hurdle that makes it difficult for a woman to get anywhere in a career if she is never allowed to be alone with a man for any point of time. All meetings would have to be monitored (or, let's be real here: never happen at all) by a third party. Why don't male and male meetings have the same rule of not being alone?


They can make sure another person is there, its really not hard. Or meet in a public office where others are around. Plus there is no need for drink at a meeting. Its his decision as a married man and I respect him for it. I heard of a lady who always keeps her office door open when she is with a man alone. I think its great that people take these stands and have these boundaries. 
In many churches the same applies. A sensible church leader will always make sure that another lady is present if he is seeing a female about something.
It also protects men from false allegations of inappropriate behaviour which is very important.


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## wild jade

You are entitled to whatever boundaries you wish, but I personally would find the OPs intolerably controlling as well as incredibly patronizing.

No problem at all if your wife is willing to accept your strictures. Personally, I would think that if you can't trust me to give a ride to a man, then we shouldn't be together. Because, really? 

Yes, I do know what (some) men are like. Doesn't mean I'm not able to give a ride to a guy without ending up in a bad situation or cheating or whatever it is that you are so terrified of happening.


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## WilliamM

wild jade said:


> You are entitled to whatever boundaries you wish, but I personally would find the OPs intolerably controlling as well as incredibly patronizing.
> 
> No problem at all if your wife is willing to accept your strictures. Personally, I would think that if you can't trust me to give a ride to a man, then we shouldn't be together. Because, really?
> 
> Yes, I do know what (some) men are like. Doesn't mean I'm not able to give a ride to a guy without ending up in a bad situation or cheating or whatever it is that you are so terrified of happening.




Saying you would not be with a man who would ask you to inform him first is totally different than speaking to the issue of whether or not you would be willing to keep a promise once given. 

Breaking a promise can apply to any promise. It could apply to a boundary you do agree with. How would you expect your Significant Other to respond if you chose to go beyond some boundary you had previously agreed to, and you kept quiet about it? I suspect that would wind him up.

That's where this all started.


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## chillymorn69

I get the feeling that she cheated before.

Is that the case.

What did you rug sweep?

If there was major rug sweeping before then I think your right being concerned.

If no cheating then lighten up.

Although some people will take advantage of you and then expect a ride whenever with out notice and if you decline then they act all buthurt!


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## Tom_

wild jade said:


> You are entitled to whatever boundaries you wish, but I personally would find the OPs intolerably controlling as well as incredibly patronizing.
> 
> No problem at all if your wife is willing to accept your strictures. Personally, I would think that if you can't trust me to give a ride to a man, then we shouldn't be together. Because, really?
> 
> Yes, I do know what (some) men are like. Doesn't mean I'm not able to give a ride to a guy without ending up in a bad situation or cheating or whatever it is that you are so terrified of happening.


Thanks but as is often the case (generally speaking) you’re choosing your words to over dramatise and misrepresent the situation. Maybe I’ve Given you the wrong impression. I don’t believe I have been ‘controlling’ or ‘incredibly patronising’. It’s too easy to throw those words about without trying to understand the nuances of a situation.

What you call ‘strictures’ are mutual boundaries agreed by both partners together in a loving conversation because we cherish our relationship. I was fine with her giving the guy a lift back. I came here to seek advice on how to sensibly approach the situation moving on from that. The advice on the whole has been extremely helpful, both sides. But trying to inflame a mild situation with your choice of words and suggesting I’m ‘terrified’ of what might happen is a waste of your time and not particularly helpful to me or anyone in a similar situation, reading this in the future.


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## WilliamM

Tom_ said:


> <snip> She had been distant, not able to look me in the eye around this time and there were other things that made my gut realise the situation was bad. We got over that, to be honest, with help from TAM (and major rug-sweep?).
> 
> So I'm not looking to re-trace history, I'm aware of the past triggering and looking for advice on the new situation and how best to handle it.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 @Tom_ did specify he is not looking to retrace history. Whether that means discussing it, or discovery, or whatever, I have no clue. I have been assuming he means he would rather stick to the here and now.

He has a boundary, he has a reason.

From here he and his wife move forward.

I think in this case the co-workers are taking advantage. But as pointed out maybe it wasn't the woman of the other couple who actually did the asking. It is good to air these possibilities, too.

In any case, I think his wife should not be giving the guy rides. Especially since there has been no good reason for it. It sounds very fishy.

And the last thing his wife should ever do is fail to abide by the agreement for prior discussion. Failing to abide by agreements is one of the most telling things concerning approaching disaster.


----------



## Tom_

chillymorn69 said:


> I get the feeling that she cheated before.
> 
> Is that the case.
> 
> What did you rug sweep?
> 
> If there was major rug sweeping before then I think your right being concerned.
> 
> If no cheating then lighten up.
> 
> Although some people will take advantage of you and then expect a ride whenever with out notice and if you decline then they act all buthurt!


She may have or may not have cheated. I will never know for sure. With respect iIm not here to drag it all up again. I confronted too soon, came here and after much advice and consideration about keeping the family together I chose the rug I guess. We both learned from the situation and our relationship has improved. 

When I expressed recently that We need to work together on this because of whatever happened back then, she looked down but said nothing. So I don’t know if there was any cheating but all the signs were there. I was either wrong or managed to stop anything developing. It may not seem it but we have moved on.


----------



## chillymorn69

Tom_ said:


> She may have or may not have cheated. I will never know for sure. With respect iIm not here to drag it all up again. I confronted too soon, came here and after much advice and consideration about keeping the family together I chose the rug I guess. We both learned from the situation and our relationship has improved.
> 
> When I expressed recently that We need to work together on this because of whatever happened back then, she looked down but said nothing. So I don’t know if there was any cheating but all the signs were there. I was either wrong or managed to stop anything developing. It may not seem it but we have moved on.



Then in that case I would be concerned!

You don't trust her and she knows it. She should understand and back off giving rides home to this guy.

Whats more important to her being open with you and understanding about the past and rebuilding trust or giving this guy rides home?

Boundries !

She is stepping on your boundries!


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## SunCMars

toblerone said:


> Feminists think it is appalling because it is another hurdle that makes it difficult for a woman to get anywhere in a career if she is never allowed to be alone with a man for any point of time. All meetings would have to be monitored (or, let's be real here: never happen at all) by a third party. *Why don't male and male meetings have the same rule of not being alone?*


*
*


They do in San Francisco and Washington Square and Lakewood, Ohio.


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## Suspicious1

How did you find out about your Ws co-worker partner actually asking for another ride again?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## TX-SC

It's not uncommon for my wife to give a male coworker a ride to or from work. No problem from me. I trust her 100%.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

Tom_ said:


> Thanks but as is often the case (generally speaking) you’re choosing your words to over dramatise and misrepresent the situation. Maybe I’ve Given you the wrong impression. I don’t believe I have been ‘controlling’ or ‘incredibly patronising’. It’s too easy to throw those words about without trying to understand the nuances of a situation.
> 
> What you call ‘strictures’ are mutual boundaries agreed by both partners together in a loving conversation because we cherish our relationship. I was fine with her giving the guy a lift back. I came here to seek advice on how to sensibly approach the situation moving on from that. The advice on the whole has been extremely helpful, both sides. But trying to inflame a mild situation with your choice of words and suggesting I’m ‘terrified’ of what might happen is a waste of your time and not particularly helpful to me or anyone in a similar situation, reading this in the future.


I agree, I dont find having good sensible healthy boundaries controlling at all, I find them freeing. I also thing its great when people recognise that so many marriages are destroyed because of 2 people getting too close and act to not let that happen. 
If you suspect that your wife may have cheated before, or was about to, then its even more important that she keeps those clear boundaries with other men. Its the least she can do.


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## Diana7

TX-SC said:


> It's not uncommon for my wife to give a male coworker a ride to or from work. No problem from me. I trust her 100%.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Yes that what my husband said about his first wife, and what millions of others have said as well.


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## Sparta

See this is a perfect example why you don’t wanna rug sweep.!!! It couldn’t be a better example. First off stop caring what people are going think about it.! this is your life you need to take charge and be a man.! Women respect strength not rug sweeping and not weakness at all you show weakness in that situation and you goddamn guarantee you know where this is going to go CWI. Moderators will be moving it over there. I would even think right now put a VAR in Her car why not. 

See the thing is you know if she had an affair and you rug swept it. Now all those insecure feelings and fears came rushing to the forefront. Like someone sounded the alarm that the Russian missile’s are coming. You don’t like the way you feel do you.? Now it’s time to do the right thing. And I don’t care what anybody says you need to find out what kind of wife you have.? I think you already know... she’s a double agent she doesn’t have a loyalty like someone should have in a marriage. So I believe in things just kind of work themselves out sometimes even if the people involved don’t want them to. The powers above, call it what you want. God, karma, whatever... in your case they seem to want you to make things right and feel that your wives dark secrets need to come out to the light. So her wrongs can be amended... here is your opportunity start doing a little detective work. Do not let her know what you’re doing. Be cool and try to act same if you don’t just tell her you don’t feel well. As if you gather information never divulge how you got the information when you confront her. History tends to repeat itself and I believe you are here. This is how you will fix the Rug Sweeping from her last affair she had. If of course she is guilty.? (she is sorry). If you don’t know what a VAR is.? It’s Voice Activated Recorder. Place it underneath the passenger seat with velcro make sure it does fall out to be discovered not a good thing. If you Need me more information just ask will give it to you.


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## TX-SC

Diana7 said:


> Yes that what my husband said about his first wife, and what millions of others have said as well.


Although I see what you are saying, I think a marriage must have trust or it's no marriage at all. Lots of people have been cheated on, and lots of people have NOT been cheated on. I trust my wife. If she cheats, then I'll no longer trust her and we can divorce. That hasn't happened yet.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## MrsHolland

My husband has a female boss, works with many women, they even have unsupervised lunch and meetings lol I don't have an issue with it as I trust him.


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## Tom_

Thanks TX-SC and Mrs Holland. Trust isn't a purely black and white thing. Many on here were coasting along just fine in their relationships and then at some point something may have caused them to look closely at what boundaries were set up, if any. When I came on here back in 2012, I'd never even heard of the term 'boundaries' in a marriage. No one had ever given me any relationship advice. I was in my early forties and yet totally naive. 

Relationships either break up or continue because of certain events that occur along the way. We have managed to look forward and of course I am slightly more wary now than in the past but I feel it's better than being totally blind to potential threats to your relationship. Trust does have to be earned and you work at it together. My wife and I have communicated positively in this situation. She also had reservations about the co-workers taking advantage of her as they were not clear in some matters about their situation which may have led it to not being just a one or two day helping out colleagues.


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## Diana7

TX-SC said:


> Although I see what you are saying, I think a marriage must have trust or it's no marriage at all. Lots of people have been cheated on, and lots of people have NOT been cheated on. I trust my wife. If she cheats, then I'll no longer trust her and we can divorce. That hasn't happened yet.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


We trust each other, but we still have strong boundaries because we have seen far too many marriages destroyed. I agree that trust is important, but sadly people do awful things despite our trust. We both have experience of that in our own families and marriages.


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## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> My husband has a female boss, works with many women, they even have unsupervised lunch and meetings lol I don't have an issue with it as I trust him.


I trust my husband and he me, but I still know that good boundaries would have saved many marriages. I also know that we are all fallible humans with weaknesses and failings. My boundaries are my own, my husband had never asked me to have them, but my own experience of so many marriages I know ending in disaster because someone who was also trusted completely got too close to another person, has shown me that healthy sensible boundaries are very wise.

Having a lunch date with a member of the opposite sex just isn't necessary in my opinion. That's one of the things I would never do. My husband has also worked with many women, his work in healthcare attracts more women than men, but he wouldn't have had a lunch date with them. Whats wrong with the office?


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## Diana7

Tom_ said:


> Thanks TX-SC and Mrs Holland. Trust isn't a purely black and white thing. Many on here were coasting along just fine in their relationships and then at some point something may have caused them to look closely at what boundaries were set up, if any. When I came on here back in 2012, I'd never even heard of the term 'boundaries' in a marriage. No one had ever given me any relationship advice. I was in my early forties and yet totally naive.
> 
> Relationships either break up or continue because of certain events that occur along the way. We have managed to look forward and of course I am slightly more wary now than in the past but I feel it's better than being totally blind to potential threats to your relationship. Trust does have to be earned and you work at it together. My wife and I have communicated positively in this situation. She also had reservations about the co-workers taking advantage of her as they were not clear in some matters about their situation which may have led it to not being just a one or two day helping out colleagues.


Try getting the book called 'Hedges, loving your marriage enough to protect it' by Jerry B Jenkins. Its very good. It talks about recognising our own areas of weakness and setting wise boundaries.


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## Personal

And if a hedge can't keep your wife, you might consider erecting some LWE colloquially known as bastard wire. Then if you're really keen you can put up some Cat-wire 3 and get some mates to help you do double staggered picquet's, dig pits and put out standing patrols and all the rest.


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## Tom_

Personal said:


> And if a hedge can't keep your wife, you might consider erecting some LWE colloquially known as bastard wire. Then if you're really keen you can put up some Cat-wire 3 and get some mates to help you do double staggered picquet's, dig pits and put out standing patrols and all the rest.


Haha! I'll come to you when I'm building my next fortress :lol:


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## Personal

Tom_ said:


> Haha! I'll come to you when I'm building my next fortress :lol:


I hope you won't ever need such a thing.


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## TX-SC

Tom_ said:


> Thanks TX-SC and Mrs Holland. Trust isn't a purely black and white thing. Many on here were coasting along just fine in their relationships and then at some point something may have caused them to look closely at what boundaries were set up, if any. When I came on here back in 2012, I'd never even heard of the term 'boundaries' in a marriage. No one had ever given me any relationship advice. I was in my early forties and yet totally naive.
> 
> Relationships either break up or continue because of certain events that occur along the way. We have managed to look forward and of course I am slightly more wary now than in the past but I feel it's better than being totally blind to potential threats to your relationship. Trust does have to be earned and you work at it together. My wife and I have communicated positively in this situation. She also had reservations about the co-workers taking advantage of her as they were not clear in some matters about their situation which may have led it to not being just a one or two day helping out colleagues.


In our situation, this has happened maybe two or three times over the course of a year, and it's about the same each year. It's not the same person each time and it's always when there's a car breakdown or similar. She always tells me when it's going to happen. 

The reality is that we talk often via text and phone, and we have an open phone policy. We simply have nothing to hide. Yes, I know that an affair could happen and it often does in this world. People get blindsided. But, I don't see giving a coworker a ride once or twice a year as a boundary issue.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## chillymorn69

TX-SC said:


> In our situation, this has happened maybe two or three times over the course of a year, and it's about the same each year. It's not the same person each time and it's always when there's a car breakdown or similar. She always tells me when it's going to happen.
> 
> The reality is that we talk often via text and phone, and we have an open phone policy. We simply have nothing to hide. Yes, I know that an affair could happen and it often does in this world. People get blindsided. But, I don't see giving a coworker a ride once or twice a year as a boundary issue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


If it kept seceret is it a boundry issue?


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## TX-SC

chillymorn69 said:


> If it kept seceret is it a boundry issue?


I think keeping something like that as a secret begs the question of why she/he would need to keep it a secret. Either the spouses don't trust each other, or they do. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

Personal said:


> And if a hedge can't keep your wife, you might consider erecting some LWE colloquially known as bastard wire. Then if you're really keen you can put up some Cat-wire 3 and get some mates to help you do double staggered picquet's, dig pits and put out standing patrols and all the rest.


Its about sensible boundaries that we set between us and for ourselves, not that we force our spouses to accept.


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## Diana7

TX-SC said:


> In our situation, this has happened maybe two or three times over the course of a year, and it's about the same each year. It's not the same person each time and it's always when there's a car breakdown or similar. She always tells me when it's going to happen.
> 
> The reality is that we talk often via text and phone, and we have an open phone policy. We simply have nothing to hide. Yes, I know that an affair could happen and it often does in this world. People get blindsided. But, I don't see giving a coworker a ride once or twice a year as a boundary issue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


It depends on the boundaries that we have for ourselves. If one of them is not to be alone in a car with someone of the opposite sex, then for them its a boundary issue. 
As you say though, honesty and openness are vital. When there has been an affair before then the honestly is even more important as are the boundaries.


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## wild jade

Tom_ said:


> Thanks but as is often the case (generally speaking) you’re choosing your words to over dramatise and misrepresent the situation. Maybe I’ve Given you the wrong impression. I don’t believe I have been ‘controlling’ or ‘incredibly patronising’. It’s too easy to throw those words about without trying to understand the nuances of a situation.
> 
> What you call ‘strictures’ are mutual boundaries agreed by both partners together in a loving conversation because we cherish our relationship. I was fine with her giving the guy a lift back. I came here to seek advice on how to sensibly approach the situation moving on from that. The advice on the whole has been extremely helpful, both sides. But trying to inflame a mild situation with your choice of words and suggesting I’m ‘terrified’ of what might happen is a waste of your time and not particularly helpful to me or anyone in a similar situation, reading this in the future.


I wasn't trying to dramatize. In your OP, you mentioned that one of your issues was that she didn't tell you about the ride beforehand. I understand this is a boundary for you, but what if the request comes last-minute? I personally cannot envision responding to someone who has just asked me for a ride, "oh, I can't answer that question until I check with my husband. I'll get back to you on that." I would just say yes. 

And she did tell you afterward. 

The subsequent request you said came from the man's partner -- yet you are concerned about what "men think" or what might happen in that car. To which I can only think, really? 

I don't know your backstory at all, but it seems to me that you are either blowing something very small out of proportion -- or the issue you're bringing here isn't actually the real issue at all.


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## Tom_

wild jade said:


> I wasn't trying to dramatize. In your OP, you mentioned that one of your issues was that she didn't tell you about the ride beforehand. I understand this is a boundary for you, but what if the request comes last-minute? I personally cannot envision responding to someone who has just asked me for a ride, "oh, I can't answer that question until I check with my husband. I'll get back to you on that." I would just say yes.
> 
> And she did tell you afterward.
> 
> The subsequent request you said came from the man's partner -- yet you are concerned about what "men think" or what might happen in that car. To which I can only think, really?
> 
> I don't know your backstory at all, but it seems to me that you are either blowing something very small out of proportion -- or the issue you're bringing here isn't actually the real issue at all.


Yes, there was a slight concern that she didn't tell me beforehand when I know there was an opportunity but I let that go, because I know my wife (read earlier posts in this thread). I didn't make a deal of it - I agreed it was the right and helpful thing to do. I too don't expect her to check with me in the way you quote above. And yes, she did tell me afterward. Jade, can you please understand that this isn't the reason I came on here. It was how to handle the situation from that point onwards.

I guess you'll never understand the what 'men think' bit. Most men and many women do. No, not in the infrequent situation where you help you're co-worker out - but the dangers arise when the situation becomes more frequent. Surely you understand that. And just to be clear, it hasn't turned into a situation where the care-share will be more frequent.

I think we're done. Many thanks for everyone's time and advice.


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## Rubix Cubed

wild jade said:


> I wasn't trying to dramatize. In your OP, you mentioned that one of your issues was that she didn't tell you about the ride beforehand. I understand this is a boundary for you, but what if the request comes last-minute? I personally cannot envision responding to someone who has just asked me for a ride, "oh, I can't answer that question until I check with my husband. I'll get back to you on that." I would just say yes.
> 
> *And she did tell you afterward.
> *


 Telling after the fact means nothing. It says that she waited until nothing had happened to tell him. If there had been a spark or something else below board, odds are extremely good he would never have heard about the ride. It could be, and probably is, 100% innocent but the manner in which it was handled after the fact is problematic for many including myself.


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## ConanHub

Mrs. Conan and I had similar boundaries. However, nearly two years ago our lives took a very tragic downturn.

I lost most of my earning ability and our combined income afterwards was not even a third of my previous individual income.

We were down to one car and she needed it for her job.

I took a train and rode a bicycle but started accepting rides for better hours.

Most of the available rides came from women.

One male coworker was readily available but smoked marijuana and drank while driving, yes to work.

I was working a very low wage warehouse job with mostly twenty something men and women who were definitely on the lower spectrum of life quality. It was eye opening to say the least.

The women I accepted rides with were all hardworking mothers who didn't drive intoxicated.

Mrs. C didn't like it at first but realized it was ok and if I was going to cheat, I wouldn't need rides with a coworker for an opportunity.


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## Tom_

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. Conan and I had similar boundaries. However, nearly two years ago our lives took a very tragic downturn.
> 
> I lost most of my earning ability and our combined income afterwards was not even a third of my previous individual income.
> 
> We were down to one car and she needed it for her job.
> 
> I took a train and rode a bicycle but started accepting rides for better hours.
> 
> Most of the available rides came from women.
> 
> One male coworker was readily available but smoked marijuana and drank while driving, yes to work.
> 
> I was working a very low wage warehouse job with mostly twenty something men and women who were definitely on the lower spectrum of life quality. It was eye opening to say the least.
> 
> The women I accepted rides with were all hardworking mothers who didn't drive intoxicated.
> 
> Mrs. C didn't like it at first but realized it was ok and if I was going to cheat, I wouldn't need rides with a coworker for an opportunity.


Sounds like a tough time - hope you've come through it okay.

Obvious role reversal question.. how would you have felt if it had been Mrs C giving or getting lifts with other guys?


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## ConanHub

Tom_ said:


> Sounds like a tough time - hope you've come through it okay.
> 
> Obvious role reversal question.. how would you have felt if it had been Mrs C giving or getting lifts with other guys?


Early in our relationship, I might have been uncomfortable with it but after 26 years and much experience, I would be ok as long as she was safe and her coworkers knew about me.

I made sure my coworkers knew I was married and even introduced her at a company Christmas party.

Open communication and honesty are extremely important however. Without trust, everything else loses it's luster.

Our relationship isn't perfectly equal though. I get away with more adventurous behavior because my safety is far less a concern than hers.

I absolutely trust her faithfulness to me but am concerned about her safety from time to time.


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## ConanHub

Tom_ said:


> Sounds like a tough time - hope you've come through it okay.
> 
> Obvious role reversal question.. how would you have felt if it had been Mrs C giving or getting lifts with other guys?


P.S. Mrs. C has never had a situation where she behaved like your wife did with working in another man's house while he came over and hiding it from me either.

She has been a very straight shooter with me. I might be more concerned if she had behaved as your wife has in the past.

Trust is definitely earned or lost.


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## TRy

Diana7 said:


> do you remember the outcry recently when Mike Pence said that he wouldn't have a meeting alone with a woman especially if drink was involved? I thought, good for you. I respect him for that.


In light of the “me to” movement, and the fact that just an accusation with no substantiation can hurt a career, Mike Pence’s position on this issue has got to be looking reasonable to a lot of people.


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## Diana7

TRy said:


> In light of the “me to” movement, and the fact that just an accusation with no substantiation can hurt a career, Mike Pence’s position on this issue has got to be looking reasonable to a lot of people.



Absolutely, its got completely out of control. A member of parliament here was accused by a woman. She said 'I think he may have brushed my knee with his hand'. I mean what????? He has had to leave his job because of that and he didn't even do anything wrong. Two men in govt here have committed suicide after not very serious allegations were made against then and the police refused to even tell then what they were or who made them. 
The women who have really been abused probably wouldn't have anything to do with this stupid 'me too' thing. At least the ones I know haven't.


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## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> I trust my husband and he me, but I still know that good boundaries would have saved many marriages. I also know that we are all fallible humans with weaknesses and failings. My boundaries are my own, my husband had never asked me to have them, but my own experience of so many marriages I know ending in disaster because someone who was also trusted completely got too close to another person, has shown me that healthy sensible boundaries are very wise.
> 
> Having a lunch date with a member of the opposite sex just isn't necessary in my opinion. That's one of the things I would never do. My husband has also worked with many women, his work in healthcare attracts more women than men, but he wouldn't have had a lunch date with them. Whats wrong with the office?


lol you added the word "date" 

no he has lunch meetings with men, women, one on one or multiple people. This is life in the corporate world, there are 1000's of people every day having lunch meetings, coffee meetings etc. These are not "dates".

He and I have very good boundaries and trust each other. It is simple.


----------



## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> lol you added the word "date"
> 
> no he has lunch meetings with men, women, one on one or multiple people. This is life in the corporate world, there are 1000's of people every day having lunch meetings, coffee meetings etc. These are not "dates".
> 
> He and I have very good boundaries and trust each other. It is simple.


Date/meeting/appointment, whatever you want to call it. As I said before the people whose spouses cheated trusted them as well, these things happen, that's why I wouldn't spend time alone with a man who isn't in my family, and believe me I have no intention of cheating and have been married for a total of 37 years. 

Yes and in the corporate world there are thousands of people having affairs with these people they lunch with. Maybe you don't know many marriages that ended because of cheating, but I know many, nearly all of which were with someone they met at work and got too close to. We need to realise that all humans are fallible and none of us are immune from doing stupid things.


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## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> Date/meeting/appointment, whatever you want to call it. As I said before the people whose spouses cheated trusted them as well, these things happen, that's why I wouldn't spend time alone with a man who isn't in my family, and believe me I have no intention of cheating and have been married for a total of 37 years.
> 
> Yes and in the corporate world there are thousands of people having affairs with these people they lunch with. Maybe you don't know many marriages that ended because of cheating, but I know many, nearly all of which were with someone they met at work and got too close to. *We need to realise that all humans are fallible and none of us are immune from doing stupid things.*


Yes, that is a very basic concept to understand.

However I choose to not live life under the weight of paranoia. A person that behaves in a moral, respectful and ethical manner because it is innate in them, not because they are told to behave that way is a much more trustworthy person IMHO

MrH and I are innately moral, respectful and ethical people so there is no need or desire to tell each other "you must not ever be in the company of opposite sex people".

Apart from all that I am not ever going to put up barriers to his career. It would be beyond ridiculous for him to not go to a coffee or lunch meeting just because the other person is a woman.


----------



## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> Yes, that is a very basic concept to understand.
> 
> However I choose to not live life under the weight of paranoia. A person that behaves in a moral, respectful and ethical manner because it is innate in them, not because they are told to behave that way is a much more trustworthy person IMHO
> 
> MrH and I are innately moral, respectful and ethical people so there is no need or desire to tell each other "you must not ever be in the company of opposite sex people".
> 
> Apart from all that I am not ever going to put up barriers to his career. It would be beyond ridiculous for him to not go to a coffee or lunch meeting just because the other person is a woman.


That's why we each have our own boundaries. He has never asked me to have any but I have my own. He has his. 
We have very strong morals, ethics and integrity, especially when it comes to marriage, sex, affairs etc, he has never had sex outside marriage for example, but unfortunately even people with such qualities can sometimes fall. Recognising this seems to be common sense. I have seen several people I know who I never ever thought would cheat, commit adultery. It has taught me that we can all act badly and that no one is immune. 

People who have wise well thought out boundaries have no paranoia, my husband is the most laid back easy going man I have ever met, they are just wise and sensible and merely wanting to protect their marriage. I admire and respect that.I wish more would do it, we may have less awful stories here of cheating and marriages destroyed.


----------



## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> That's why we each have our own boundaries. He has never asked me to have any but I have my own. He has his.
> We have very strong morals, ethics and integrity, especially when it comes to marriage, sex, affairs etc, he has never had sex outside marriage for example, but unfortunately even people with such qualities can sometimes fall. Recognising this seems to be common sense. I have seen several people I know who I never ever thought would cheat, commit adultery. It has taught me that we can all act badly and that no one is immune.
> 
> People who have wise well thought out boundaries have no paranoia, my husband is the most laid back easy going man I have ever met, they are just wise and sensible and merely wanting to protect their marriage. I admire and respect that.I wish more would do it, we may have less awful stories here of cheating and marriages destroyed.


When people are not able to be trusted to even have a coffee or lunch meet with the OS it speaks volumes about their lack of integrity.


----------



## 269370

Tom_ said:


> Yes, there was a slight concern that she didn't tell me beforehand when I know there was an opportunity but I let that go, because I know my wife (read earlier posts in this thread). I didn't make a deal of it - I agreed it was the right and helpful thing to do. I too don't expect her to check with me in the way you quote above. And yes, she did tell me afterward. Jade, can you please understand that this isn't the reason I came on here. It was how to handle the situation from that point onwards.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you'll never understand the what 'men think' bit. Most men and many women do. No, not in the infrequent situation where you help you're co-worker out - but the dangers arise when the situation becomes more frequent. Surely you understand that. And just to be clear, it hasn't turned into a situation where the care-share will be more frequent.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we're done. Many thanks for everyone's time and advice.



Past behaviour is relevant to predict future behaviour though. If you have any reason to suspect she is the type who was or might be unfaithful to you, you can of course try and prevent the situations from arising but your long term problem is that if she herself doesn’t have strong boundaries, the situation will eventually arise which you won’t be able to control.
I think is less to do with how the guys think (though that’s a given) but more to do with how your wife thinks...and you seem not convinced.
You could keep a VAR in the car and find out about her moral boundaries this way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

Tom_ said:


> She may have or may not have cheated. I will never know for sure. With respect iIm not here to drag it all up again. I confronted too soon, came here and after much advice and consideration about keeping the family together I chose the rug I guess. We both learned from the situation and our relationship has improved.
> 
> 
> 
> When I expressed recently that We need to work together on this because of whatever happened back then, she looked down but said nothing. So I don’t know if there was any cheating but all the signs were there. I was either wrong or managed to stop anything developing. It may not seem it but we have moved on.




It sounds like it’s still haunting (what she may or not may have done). I’m afraid you both may have learnt the wrong lessons by rug sweeping it: that you will not trust your wife anymore and that she can get away with cheating (if she did cheat), with no consequences because she thinks you can take it.


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## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> My husband has a female boss, works with many women, they even have unsupervised lunch and meetings lol I don't have an issue with it as I trust him.




What?! They let women eat lunch and have meetings in the same space as men, ‘unsupervised’?! Unbelievable!! 
Does he work for Caligula?

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## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> When people are not able to be trusted to even have a coffee or lunch meet with the OS it speaks volumes about their lack of integrity.


Its not about not being trusted, neither of us have ever cheated either in our long first marriages or this one, its about beings sensible and wise. Its recognising that many affairs start with 2 people getting too close. As we can see from this site, these things can and do happen. Its about loving our marriage enough to take steps so that we never ever get in that position. Its recognising that half of all married people will cheat. 
I am sure that most of the people here who have spouses who have cheated thought the same as you. 

I have never met a man who has stronger moral values or more integrity than my husband, and the fact that he would never let himself get too close to another woman just confirms that, and I love him for it.


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## Blondilocks

Diana7 said:


> Its not about not being trusted, neither of us have ever cheated either in our long first marriages or this one, its about beings sensible and wise. Its recognising that many affairs start with 2 people getting too close. As we can see from this site, these things can and do happen. Its about loving our marriage enough to take steps so that we never ever get in that position. Its recognising that half of all married people will cheat.
> I am sure that most of the people here who have spouses who have cheated thought the same as you.
> 
> I have never met a man who has stronger moral values or more integrity than my husband, and the fact that he would never let himself get too close to another woman just confirms that, and I love him for it.


And, yet, you don't believe in pre-nups. Fascinating.


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## Diana7

Blondilocks said:


> And, yet, you don't believe in pre-nups. Fascinating.


I dont believe in planning for a divorce before I have got married. I also believe that when you marry what each has is now theirs. I do believe in protecting a marriage.


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## TRy

MrsHolland said:


> When people are not able to be trusted to even have a coffee or lunch meet with the OS it speaks volumes about their lack of integrity.


 You saying that “When people are not able to be trusted to even have a coffee or lunch meet with the OS it speaks volumes about their lack of integrity” speaks volumes about your self righteousness. Also, questioning a poster’s “integrity” when they disagree with you is way out of line.

What you call “integrity” many call common sense, as most affairs start as innocent relationships where neither party was looking to have an affair, but ended up getting too close. People cannot control their feelings, but they can control not getting into situations that can lead to those feelings.


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## Blondilocks

TRy said:


> You saying that “When people are not able to be trusted to even have a coffee or lunch meet with the OS it speaks volumes about their lack of integrity” speaks volumes about your self righteousness. Also, questioning a poster’s “integrity” when they disagree with you is way out of line.
> 
> What you call “integrity” many call common sense, as most affairs start as innocent relationships where neither party was looking to have an affair, but ended up getting too close. People cannot control their feelings, but they can control not getting into situations that can lead to those feelings.


Of course people can control their feelings. If we didn't, none of us would have a job.>


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## Diana7

Blondilocks said:


> Of course people can control their feelings. If we didn't, none of us would have a job.>


Many are driven by feelings, they can be very powerful. Having good boundaries is merely common sense and a recognition that we are all fallible human beings with weaknesses. This site shows how weak people are when it comes to affairs and unfaithfulness. 50% is a lot of people.


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## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> Many are driven by feelings, they can be very powerful. Having good boundaries is merely common sense and a recognition that we are all fallible human beings with weaknesses. This site shows how weak people are when it comes to affairs and unfaithfulness. 50% is a lot of people.


Many are driven by having innate good boundaries. A very weak person would be driven by their feelings when it comes to a work situation. 

It is just beyond ridiculous for someone to be so weak that they would jeopadise career advancement or being able to fulfill their role adequately just because they were so weak as not to be able to have a coffee meet without it meaning a potential affair in the making. Personally I could not be with a man that was so weak.


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## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> Many are driven by having innate good boundaries. A very weak person would be driven by their feelings when it comes to a work situation.
> 
> It is just beyond ridiculous for someone to be so weak that they would jeopadise career advancement or being able to fulfill their role adequately just because they were so weak as not to be able to have a coffee meet without it meaning a potential affair in the making. Personally I could not be with a man that was so weak.


I have boundaries out of strength not weakness. I love it when men and women care enough to have good healthy boundaries, I respect them and admire them. Far too many people have no boundaries and wonder why they are in a mess. They think they are infallible but no one is. I have seen this time and time again, people who seemed to be good moral people I thought I knew, but they still cheated. 

My husband has managed to have a good long career without having to have dinner out alone with other women. its just not needed, there are offices for that. He has a phd, is a scientist and works in healthcare where they are far more females than males. Any meetings he has had have been in offices or meeting rooms in the workplace.
Eating a meal together is an intimate thing to do, and not something I would ever do with a man unless he was a member of my family. 

I know many good moral people with great integrity who have wise boundaries. Its common sense.


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## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> I have boundaries out of strength not weakness. I love it when men and women care enough to have good healthy boundaries, I respect them and admire them. Far too many people have no boundaries and wonder why they are in a mess. They think they are infallible but no one is. I have seen this time and time again, people who seemed to be good moral people I thought I knew, but they still cheated.
> 
> *My husband has managed to have a good long career without having to have dinner out alone with other women. its just not needed, there are offices for that. *He has a phd, is a scientist and works in healthcare where they are far more females than males. Any meetings he has had have been in offices or meeting rooms in the workplace.
> Eating a meal together is an intimate thing to do, and not something I would ever do with a man unless he was a member of my family.
> 
> I know many good moral people with great integrity who have wise boundaries. Its common sense.


And again you are adding things that were not said, is this to add drama to your point or do you simply not understand the dialogue? 

Coffee and lunch meetings are the norm in the corporate world (here, but maybe we are not so tightly bound up), it would be bizarre for someone to not have a coffee or lunch meet just because it was with the OS.

MrH can have back to back meetings all day, some in his office, some in their office, over the phone, flying Interstate for the day. Coffee and lunch meets are the norm especially in the fast paced, time poor corporate world. He has managed to have a good, long, successful career without having dinner alone with other women lol.


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## frusdil

I am honestly gobsmacked at some of these posts. When I was working full time, I would occasionally drop a male colleague home because it was on my way. Sometimes it was late at night. I was single, he was married and there was NEVER, not a single time, anything said or done that was inappropriate. 



ConanHub said:


> P.S. Mrs. C has never had a situation where she behaved like your wife did with working in another man's house while he came over and hiding it from me either.


Behaved??? Again, when I was working full time, I was PA, and I worked for a couple of days in my boss' home while a new aircon system was installed. While the workmen (yes, I was there with 2 men!! Gasp!) went off on their break, my MARRIED boss came home! Gasp! And we were alone in the house! And guess what? NOTHING HAPPENED.

Far out!!


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## TRy

MrsHolland said:


> A very weak person would be driven by their feelings when it comes to a work situation.


 When I was young my father had an affair with a coworker that started out with coffees and then lunches. My mom was a real beauty, and the other woman a downgrade, so my mom never worried about the coffees and lunches until it was too late. With the other woman focusing on my dad with her saying and doing all the right things, my dad eventually developed feeling for the other woman that lead to the affair. Although my father quickly dropped the affair partner and begged for forgiveness, my mother never got over the affair and eventually divorced my dad. My father still thinks of my mom as the love of his life, and the affair the worst mistake of his life. My mom also says that my dad was the love of her life.

Was my dad weak, yes. Was his affair wrong, absolutely. Do they both wish that they had different boundaries that might have prevented him developing feels for the other woman, you bet.


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## ConanHub

frusdil said:


> I am honestly gobsmacked at some of these posts. When I was working full time, I would occasionally drop a male colleague home because it was on my way. Sometimes it was late at night. I was single, he was married and there was NEVER, not a single time, anything said or done that was inappropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> Behaved??? Again, when I was working full time, I was PA, and I worked for a couple of days in my boss' home while a new aircon system was installed. While the workmen (yes, I was there with 2 men!! Gasp!) went off on their break, my MARRIED boss came home! Gasp! And we were alone in the house! And guess what? NOTHING HAPPENED.
> 
> Far out!!


OP's wife hid contact with another man in his home and broke a boundary by not letting her husband know first. She also acted very fishy about the whole thing.

They worked through it, rug swept, but they both agreed to be upfront about opposite sex contact and she didn't do that until after giving a man a ride.

There seems to be trust issues with OP and his wife for which she is probably mostly responsible for.

If you lied to your husband about being in a man's home with him alone, he might have some issues with your "behavior" as well.

Dishonesty, breaking agreed upon boundaries and broken trust are the issues here, not if opposite sex contact occurs in a professional environment or giving people rides.


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## MrsHolland

TRy said:


> When I was young my father had an affair with a coworker that started out with coffees and then lunches. My mom was a real beauty, and the other woman a downgrade, so my mom never worried about the coffees and lunches until it was too late. With the other woman focusing on my dad with her saying and doing all the right things, my dad eventually developed feeling for the other woman that lead to the affair. Although my father quickly dropped the affair partner and begged for forgiveness, my mother never got over the affair and eventually divorced my dad. My father still thinks of my mom as the love of his life, and the affair the worst mistake of his life. My mom also says that my dad was the love of her life.
> 
> Was my dad weak, yes. Was his affair wrong, absolutely. Do they both wish that they had different boundaries that might have prevented him developing feels for the other woman, you bet.


Very different to what D is banging on about. The start of the dialogue was about MrH having one on one *meetings *with his boss, lunch or coffee meets with men, women, one on one or other people. Never said that he had regular coffee or lunch meets with the same person. Diana then turned that into meeting being the same as a "date" which is just bizarre.
No where did I say once that he went on dates with other women :scratchhead:

I meet him for lunch "dates" lol


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## Ynot

I have only read the last few pages, but I think I get the gist of this thread. My two cents are that usually people who are afraid that they would cheat are the ones who are most adamant that their spouse never be in a position to cheat.


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## TX-SC

I just don't see this as being an issue. I don't see it even as a boundary thing. Riding to work in a car isn't a problem; talking personal stuff or making out, yes, that would be an issue.

I realize that people cheat and their spouses are often blindsided by it, but that can happen anytime with a person prone to cheating.

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## FalCod

Diana7 said:


> I trust my husband and he me, but I still know that good boundaries would have saved many marriages. I also know that we are all fallible humans with weaknesses and failings. My boundaries are my own, my husband had never asked me to have them, but my own experience of so many marriages I know ending in disaster because someone who was also trusted completely got too close to another person, has shown me that healthy sensible boundaries are very wise.
> 
> Having a lunch date with a member of the opposite sex just isn't necessary in my opinion. That's one of the things I would never do. My husband has also worked with many women, his work in healthcare attracts more women than men, but he wouldn't have had a lunch date with them. Whats wrong with the office?


You keep saying that you trust your husband, but you use that word differently than I do. When I say that I trust my wife, I mean that I trust that she won't do something harmful to our marriage - engaging in any sort of emotional or physical affair. It doesn't mean that I set rules about who she can be with or when she can be with them. When I say that I trust her, I mean that I trust her judgment on things like that. If some guy requested a ride, I would trust her to make the right decision for the circumstances. 

When I read your comments, I get the sense that you are using rules in place of what I would call trust. I'm not saying that you are doing anything wrong. We are all different people in different circumstances and we all need to do what works best for us. Still, if my wife told me that she trusted me but that I couldn't have lunch with a female business associate, I would be confused by what I would see as a contradiction.


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## TRy

Ynot said:


> My two cents are that usually people who are afraid that they would cheat are the ones who are most adamant that their spouse never be in a position to cheat.


 I agree with your statement that "people who are afraid that they would cheat are the ones who are most adamant that their spouse never be in a position to cheat" is probably true for many people (not sure if I would say most). These are people that thought that they would never cheat, until they experienced a situation with the opposite sex where they found themselves too close and tempted. 

There was a much younger, very attractive and smart coworker at my office that many of the other guys were pursuing that gravitated to talking to me because I was not pursuing her, which made talking to me comfortable for her. We clicked conversationally so she began dropping by my office to talk. Eventually on multiple occasions she out of the blue inserted into the conversion that she liked older men and let me know that her last fiancee was my age, which boosted my ego. When she began dropping by my office to ask me out to lunch wearing supper short dresses, fresh lipstick, and generally looking great, I knew she was pursuing me, which I liked way too much. Even though I really wanted to go to lunch with her, some of the other guys in the office thought that I was nuts when they saw me making excuses as I kept turning her down. Remembering my Dad and what he did, I eventually distanced myself from her even though I did not want to. As much as I love my wife, I am still only human, and knew temptation when I saw it.


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## frusdil

ConanHub said:


> OP's wife hid contact with another man in his home and broke a boundary by not letting her husband know first. She also acted very fishy about the whole thing.
> 
> They worked through it, rug swept, but they both agreed to be upfront about opposite sex contact and she didn't do that until after giving a man a ride.
> 
> There seems to be trust issues with OP and his wife for which she is probably mostly responsible for.
> 
> If you lied to your husband about being in a man's home with him alone, he might have some issues with your "behavior" as well.
> 
> Dishonesty, breaking agreed upon boundaries and broken trust are the issues here, not if opposite sex contact occurs in a professional environment or giving people rides.


I suspect OP hid this fact from her husband because she knew how he'd react, not because of anything she did "wrong".

I asked my husband about this, and told him about this thread. I also gave him the two examples I used in my original response here. He couldn't see an issue either. We both agree that perhaps daily rides could potentially lead down a slippery slope, but not the occasional lift. He agreed that it would be ridiculous of him to expect me to ask him if I could, before I agreed to give a colleague a lift home...sometimes things happen, that's just life.

I mean, I wouldn't hide it from him, I would let him know I was going to be late because I was dropping "Jim" home, but I wouldn't say to "Jim" "hold on, let me ask permission from my husband first...I'll get back to you". No way. He's my husband, not my father.


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## 269370

Blondilocks said:


> Of course people can control their feelings. If we didn't, none of us would have a job.>




We can’t control feelings; we can control how we act on them.


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## notmyrealname4

,


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## 269370

FalCod said:


> You keep saying that you trust your husband, but you use that word differently than I do. When I say that I trust my wife, I mean that I trust that she won't do something harmful to our marriage - engaging in any sort of emotional or physical affair. It doesn't mean that I set rules about who she can be with or when she can be with them. When I say that I trust her, I mean that I trust her judgment on things like that. If some guy requested a ride, I would trust her to make the right decision for the circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> When I read your comments, I get the sense that you are using rules in place of what I would call trust. I'm not saying that you are doing anything wrong. We are all different people in different circumstances and we all need to do what works best for us. Still, if my wife told me that she trusted me but that I couldn't have lunch with a female business associate, I would be confused by what I would see as a contradiction.




It’s like Lenin said: Trust is good, control is better.


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## ConanHub

frusdil said:


> I suspect OP hid this fact from her husband because she knew how he'd react, not because of anything she did "wrong".
> 
> I asked my husband about this, and told him about this thread. I also gave him the two examples I used in my original response here. He couldn't see an issue either. We both agree that perhaps daily rides could potentially lead down a slippery slope, but not the occasional lift. He agreed that it would be ridiculous of him to expect me to ask him if I could, before I agreed to give a colleague a lift home...sometimes things happen, that's just life.
> 
> I mean, I wouldn't hide it from him, I would let him know I was going to be late because I was dropping "Jim" home, but I wouldn't say to "Jim" "hold on, let me ask permission from my husband first...I'll get back to you". No way. He's my husband, not my father.


I get what your position is and I think the example you gave about doing your job as a PA and being in his house while doing your work is different than what OP's wife did.

She was not working with her boss. She was doing some type of work (OP should elaborate) in a house where the homeowner was occasionally alone with her and it wasn't a necessary component of her job to be with him. She hid this from her husband (which is different than your situation as well) and acted peculiar about it.

We only have his POV to go by and it could just be that his view point is shaded with insecurities but agreed upon boundaries in a relationship need to be respected.

They agreed about their boundaries and she broke them.

Mrs. Conan and I have very similar boundaries. They are ours and have mostly served us well.

I'm not the least insecure except when it comes to my wife's safety. She is often insecure and jealous so our boundaries are mostly for her but I agreed to them and to my life with her so I will respect what I have agreed to.

Again, If you hid being alone with a man your husband didn't know about, in a situation where you were breaking a boundary that you know would upset him, your husband would be upset.

This couple has their own rules. Mrs. C and I have similar ones and they aren't oppressive or difficult for us.

You and your hubby have different boundaries and it works for you.


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## ConanHub

Also where is this permission theme popping up?

Letting your spouse know who you are going to be alone with or what your location is going to be is very smart, not insecure or controlling.

I've lived through many bad scenarios and researched many others.

Knowing who, where and what ahead of time is always wise regardless of employment or personal responsibilities.

That is my angle. I trust Mrs. C not to disrespect me in any way, cheating would be included, but I have been furious with her a few times for forgetting to let me know when her plans changed and I couldn't ascertain if she was safe or not.

Women have things happen to them in the blink of an eye and knowing my wife's whereabouts and company is a titanium boundary for me.


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## thefam

JunIn this day and age I don't understand how any woman would want to get in the car with a man one-on-one without telling someone that she is doing so. I have seen too many stories of women being raped and yes even killed because they did something like this and no one had any idea they were even with this person. I would never let a man in the car with me by myself without first telling my husband that I'm about to do it. Not for the reason of him trusting or not trusting me but because if anything happens at least I want them to be able to get the jerk that did something to me.


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## minimalME

thefam said:


> JunIn this day and age I don't understand how any woman would want to get in the car with a man one-on-one without telling someone that she is doing so. I have seen too many stories of women being raped and yes even killed because they did something like this and no one had any idea they were even with this person. I would never let a man in the car with me by myself without first telling my husband that I'm about to do it. Not for the reason of him trusting or not trusting me but because if anything happens at least I want them to be able to get the jerk that did something to me.


I guess that's always a risk.

I dated a lot last winter - 2 to 4 dates a week. The majority picked me up, and not one of them gave even a hint of innapropriate behavior.


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## thefam

minimalME said:


> I guess that's always a risk.
> 
> I dated a lot last winter - 2 to 4 dates a week. The majority picked me up, and not one of them gave even a hint of innapropriate behavior.


Good for you. And I mean that sincerely. There are many women in my city who have not been so lucky. Plus I'm just overly-cautious Olivia anyway anyway. LOL


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## thefam

Deleted


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## Rubix Cubed

frusdil said:


> I suspect OP hid this fact from her husband because she knew how he'd react, not because of anything she did "wrong".


 So that makes the lie of omission OK?
If she knew it was something big enough to "have" to hide it from him, why did she do it in the first place?


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## TRy

minimalME said:


> I guess that's always a risk.
> 
> I dated a lot last winter - 2 to 4 dates a week. The majority picked me up, and not one of them gave even a hint of innapropriate behavior.


 And when one day there is more than a “hint of inappropriate behavior”, then what?

When someone plays Russian Roulette, out of 6 chambers there is only 1 chamber that is loaded, so the odds are you will win. That being said, the downside is so bad few would willingly play it.


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## minimalME

TRy said:


> And when one day there is more than a “hint of inappropriate behavior”, then what?
> 
> When someone plays Russian Roulette, out of 6 chambers there is only 1 chamber that is loaded, so the odds are you will win. That being said, the downside is so bad few would willingly play it.


But you can say that for just about anything.

House getting broken into, plane crash, heart attack, food poisoning - on and on.

There are all sorts of risks in just living life. I'm not going to live in fear.


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## 269370

minimalME said:


> I guess that's always a risk.
> 
> I dated a lot last winter - 2 to 4 dates a week. The majority picked me up, and not one of them gave even a hint of innapropriate behavior.


I detect disappointment


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## minimalME

inmyprime said:


> I detect disappointment


Not at all.  At least not in the way that TRy was insinuating. 

Dating in general has been very disappointing, but that's for a different thread.


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## dadstartingover

Rubix Cubed said:


> So that makes the lie of omission OK?
> If she knew it was something big enough to "have" to hide it from him, why did she do it in the first place?


YEP. A lie by ommission is almost always nefarious and goes beyond the typical *"I just didn't want to upset you for no reason"* excuse. Most women who do this ironically have NO problem insulting or taking innocent little jabs at their husband on a regular basis. She'll overshare about every detail of her day, and throw some nagging in there to go with it. But, when it comes to this ONE thing (overspending, hanging out with that guy from work, etc)... they are suddenly quiet and concerned about hubby getting upset.

Interesting.

What they're doing is tip-toeing close to the inappropriate behavior line, and they know it. They like doing it, they don't want to stop, so they rationalize and omit that part of the story. Husband finds out and gets angry. *"THAT'S why I didn't tell you! You get upset over nothing!"* Now the onus is on the hubby. He puts his tail between his legs and feels bad for being such a controlling a-hole. 

A subtle form of gaslighting.


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## TRy

minimalME said:


> But you can say that for just about anything.
> 
> House getting broken into, plane crash, heart attack, food poisoning - on and on.
> 
> There are all sorts of risks in just living life. I'm not going to live in fear.


 Yes you can say that for many things, but you take precautions when you can. In your examples, you lock your doors to your house to reduce the chance of it "getting broken into, you put on your seat belt in case of a "plane crash", you can watch your diet to reduce the odds of a "heart attack", and you can check the condition of the food before you eat it to reduce the odds of getting "food poisoning". Taking reasonable precautions is not living in fear, it is just being practical.


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## TRy

minimalME said:


> Not at all.  At least not in the way that TRy was insinuating.


 I never was "insinuating" that you were disappointed that there was not a hint of inappropriate behavior from these men. If I am wrong, show me where I insinuated such, and I will apologize.


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## minimalME

TRy said:


> Yes you can say that for many things, but you take precautions when you can. In your examples, you lock your doors to your house to reduce the chance of it "getting broken into, you put on your seat belt in case of a "plane crash", you can watch your diet to reduce the odds of a "heart attack", and you can check the condition of the food before you eat it to reduce the odds of getting "food poisoning". Taking reasonable precautions is not living in fear, it is just being practical.


Right. But there's only so much due diligence one can reasonably do, yes? Whether it's dating, marriage, having children - there's only so much knowledge one can gather.

The majority of people on this site are struggling with something. Sexlessness, affairs, etc. And they _now_ have information that they didn't have prior to being married, yes? I'm confident that everyone here did their best.

So, you can be as practical as you like, but no one I know is omniscient. We all have our limits.


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## minimalME

TRy said:


> I never was "insinuating" that you were disappointed that there was not a hint of inappropriate behavior from these men. If I am wrong, show me where I insinuated such, and I will apologize.


OMG. 

No, there was no insinuation about disappointment. I was referring to your suggestion that I lack precautions.


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## Cletus

TRy said:


> People cannot control their feelings, but they can control not getting into situations that can lead to those feelings.


No they can't.

It can happen in the checkout line at the local WalMart.


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## Cletus

Ynot said:


> I have only read the last few pages, but I think I get the gist of this thread. My two cents are that usually people who are afraid that they would cheat are the ones who are most adamant that their spouse never be in a position to cheat.


At the risk of offending, duh.

This place is nothing if not one big platform for projection.


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## Cletus

TRy said:


> That being said, the downside is so bad few would willingly play it.


That's what some people tell me about riding a motorcycle.


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## TRy

Cletus said:


> That's what some people tell me about riding a motorcycle.


 Taking the precaution of wearing a helmet when you ride a motorcycle is probably a good idea, don't you agree? BTW, although I do not currently own a motorcycle, I have have owned multiple motorcycles in my past and knew the risk that I was taking riding one.


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## TRy

minimalME said:


> OMG.
> 
> No, there was no insinuation about disappointment. I was referring to your suggestion that I lack precautions.


 OMG you are really confusing this. I may have been insinuating in other posts that you were not taking enough precautions, but that had nothing to do with the posts that were being referenced. If you reread the posts being referenced, you will see that the other poster was jokingly asking if you were disappointed, and that you were the one that roped me into this by falsely saying that I was insinuating such. Below is the exchange shown in Post #114 (my direct response was in Post #117):

Quote:Originally Posted by inmyprime 
"I detect disappointment"

Quote: Posted by you
"Not at all. At least not in the way that TRy was insinuating. 

Dating in general has been very disappointing, but that's for a different thread."

For you to now try to say that "there was no insinuation about disappointment. I was referring to your suggestion that I lack precautions" does not make sense. Again read Post #114 and my response this in Post #117.


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