# My wife masturbates when I'm not around - Accuses ME of masturbating!



## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

If you're seeing me post a lot of things, it's not that I think my wife is horrible, it's just that we've had a lot of "issues" over the years and I haven't been able to talk about them, so I'm kinda unloading.

First, we have a very healthy sex-life. We take care of each other and don't seem to have any problems there. But, since the beginning, she's been worried about me masturbating. She gets very upset thinking about it and has a hard time believing me.

I've searched this topic before and actually found quite a bit of it out there. I'm hoping to get some advice myself, though.

For the first year I literally didn't masturbate at all because I was trying to start fresh. Also, because we slept in the same bed (due to her having a hard time sleeping and me snoring and moving, that has changed. I sleep in a different room now). I finally started slipping back into it, but still tried to avoid it out of respect to her.

Part of why I started up again is because I started to grow suspicious that SHE was. I remember one night walking in to say something to her and it was pretty obvious what was going on under the covers. I asked, not really upset, but she fully denied it.

That made me a little frustrated. I went through a phase where I felt betrayed. There kept being evidence of it, she eventually admitted to it happening "occasionally" but not all the time, though I started noticing signs more and more frequently, to the point of every night. Even on trips, I'd wake in the night to feel her doing it next to me, but she would deny it. Eventually I began spying on her through the crack in the door and know for a fact now that it's nearly an every night thing.

I've since come to the epiphany that this ISN'T CHEATING and there's really nothing wrong with it. It's more like self-massage. It's something she can do and make herself feel better, take away stress, sleep better. Maybe she just needs some "me time." She has a lot of body image issues that makes sex uncomfortable for her sometimes, so being able to just be free and feel good is probably a great stress relief for her. Okay, fine. I can understand it and I'm much happier for having accepted it. It actually seems like a wonderful, positive thing now.

BUT if *I *were to admit to her that I do SOMETIMES, _not nearly as frequently as her_, I'm actually afraid it might destroy our marriage. She has such an issue about it and constantly accuses ME of it. For me to masturbate would be cheating in her eyes and I don't think my self-massage theory and positive outlook could rub off on her.

I guess I'm asking, what should I do? Should I bring all this out in the open?

Again, I try to avoid it because I know she wants me not to do it, but it seems so hypocritical that I've lost some of the motivation to NOT do it, especially when it seems like such a natural thing to do.

Oh, and she also says she HATES porn and would be mortified if she caught me with porn. I'm not really a porn guy, but I look on occasion, not for the other women (I really only do have eyes for her), but for the act. She's gotten to where she checks my phone and computer for it and finds anything to question, even sites that aren't really porn, but might have a weird ad on the side or something. This has gotten me to check her stuff, too, and I've found a small amount of porn searches on her computer. I confronted her about it once and somehow I became the bad guy in that argument ... don't remember how. Anyway, this is something else that I would WANT to stop out of respect for her, but when I know she's doing it to I have a lack of motivation to stop. Again, it seems hypocritical.

But she really is sensitive to it and really does seem deeply hurt at both ideas.

But, point is, masturbating AND porn, both of which she does and hides, both of which she's suspicious of me doing and could never accept it, despite that I accept that she does it. What do I do?

Blah! Got that out! Never told anyone. Help, guidance, anything would be very helpful.


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## SweetiepieMI (Jan 22, 2010)

Hey, sorry for all the drama. I would suggest to just bring it up in a conversation. But with doing that make sure that its conversational, not confrontational. Then explain that in marriages, there needs to be compromise. And since she is doing it, then it only makes sense for you to have the same release on occasion. I would suggest possible try sticking to watching porn together. Maybe let her know that youre willing to stick to self gradification 2 times a week or something....

See how that goes... Maube try mastubating with her. One night when you wake up, and you know shes doing it... instead of just being like "you are arent you!!" instead join in on the fun. See where that takes you. Hope it helps....


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

It sounds like your wife has some major insecurity issues. Masturbation is healthy and can add to the relationship unless you are using it to avoid intimacy with your partner.

As far as the porn, that is an individual preference and many women feel it's not a good thing. That is really up to each couple to decide on how to work with it.

I would say some deep communication is in order.


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

SweetiepieMI said:


> Hey, sorry for all the drama. I would suggest to just bring it up in a conversation. But with doing that make sure that its conversational, not confrontational. Then explain that in marriages, there needs to be compromise. And since she is doing it, then it only makes sense for you to have the same release on occasion. I would suggest possible try sticking to watching porn together. Maybe let her know that youre willing to stick to self gradification 2 times a week or something....
> 
> See how that goes... Maube try mastubating with her. One night when you wake up, and you know shes doing it... instead of just being like "you are arent you!!" instead join in on the fun. See where that takes you. Hope it helps....



Yeah, I really do feel like it's a nice release for her. In fact, now that I'm over the jealousy (in fact, I really feel silly about ever being jealous about it) I'm all for her masturbating. Seems like a wonderful, stress-relieving massage.

The worry I have is that she would basically never accept that I do it, and it's such a natural thing I don't like hiding it from her.

Don't think I could ever get her to watch porn. She thinks it's horrible and would never believe that it has nothing to do with the girls in the movies. I really don't have any interest in other women at all. But, I know we could both get really turned on by porn and I know she's looked stuff up on her own. But, still, I'm totally fine not using porn or trying to get her to watch it. Never have. Never will as long as she seems uncomfortable.

We do masturbate together and it's wonderful. And that's how we make her orgasm most of the time. I'm just happy to see her feel good and have that release.

Her masturbating comes in large part because we don't sleep in the same room (she can't stand snoring and such).

I know there have been many nights where she's stayed up for hours and hours masturbating while she reads books. I want to make sure she's okay, because she thinks so negatively about masturbation and porn, but then she hides it and accuses me like she's paranoid. I want the whole thing to be open and free and comfortable for both of us. I don't want her to have such conflicting emotions in side of her.


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

HappyHer said:


> It sounds like your wife has some major insecurity issues. Masturbation is healthy and can add to the relationship unless you are using it to avoid intimacy with your partner.
> 
> As far as the porn, that is an individual preference and many women feel it's not a good thing. That is really up to each couple to decide on how to work with it.
> 
> I would say some deep communication is in order.



Yeah, she really does have a lot of issues about her looks (and she's really gorgeous so it boggles me). She constantly thinks she's fat and ugly (she's skinning and beautiful), has had eating disorders. She's also concerned that she's bad in bed or I'm attracted to other women, etc. etc.

But from my side of things, I married WAY up. She's gorgeous and more than I could have ever hoped for physically and sexually (and every other way, but I'm sticking to the thread topic). She has nothing to worry about from me.

Oh, and she's not using it to avoid she also wants sex a lot and we always take the time to make her orgasm. I really think she's just doing it to take care of herself and feel good and relaxed and that's wonderful! I want her to.

It's the conflicting worries she has about masturbating that worry me.

And I won't push porn on her. I'm not really a porn guy. If we did start watching together I think it would get us both really turned on and relax us both to the idea, but I won't push it at all. She gets really upset even mentioning the stuff. And she's really really jealous of other women. If I even happen to be looking at the tv during an underwear commercial or a sex scene in a movie or anything, she gets upset and accuses me of wishing she looked like that woman or saying I get turned on by them. And I really don't. I'm only attracted to her!


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Your wife has some serious issues. Is she seeing a therapist? If not, she should.

Holy crap. This is an amazing thread. I don't even know what to say. Do you people ever just relax and enjoy each other? Seems like it's a constant series of issues and battles in your house.


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

Unfortunately, no. I really feel like it could benefit her, because I know she has issues from her dad being controlling, growing up overweight, being date-raped when she lost her virginity, her mom committing suicide, her ex being abusive, and even now with us and the troubles I've caused.

There are many valid reasons for her to be having trouble and I would love to help her through these things, but she is very resistant to help or helping herself.

I would love to get us both in a program together and separately. I know I have a lot of problems, too, from a bad childhood, alcoholic parents (though I don't drink), abusive parents, growing up fat and poor, etc. We could both definitely benefit, I just don't know how to get her involved. She seems to think I'm all the problems in the relationship and I'm the one that needs to change.

I agree with her, but I think she needs help, too.

Anyone know how to get someone into therapy when they're so resistant?


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

qbert said:


> Anyone know how to get someone into therapy when they're so resistant?


You cannot change her. Period. You only change YOURSELF and how you react and deal with her. Right now you are her personal doormat and she has NO incentive to get into therapy.

That changes when YOU start dealing with her and making it clear to HER that you won't put up with her crap. When YOU start setting limits and parameters on what you will put up with. When YOU start walking out of the room when she starts her crap MAYBE she will start to adjust her attitude and actions. Until you do there is no incentive or reason for her to change. It will go on and on indefinitely. Get it?

There are no CONSEQUENCES to her actions. None. Instead you are bending over backwards to "please" her and accommodate her madness. Why change then? 

I've posted in other thread of yours about how to deal with her. In a nutshell, walk out of the room when she pulls her crap. Walk out of the house for a few days and show her what her life will be like if she continues to resist getting help for herself. Tell her you are leaving if she doesn't start to help herself. Now she has no reason to change ANYTHING. 

She sounds like she's had a horrible life. I feel for her and I've had my own issues too. I think most of us have but there's no excuse for her to make YOUR life miserable. She's got to get a handle on herself and you can't "make" her happy. She can only do that for herself. She's just like a drug addict or alcoholic in that she's addicted to behaving badly towards you and probably everyone else around her. 

I'll bet when you have a fight she brings up all the horrid stuff that's happened to her in an attempt to make you feel guilty. True or false?


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## del88 (Mar 24, 2010)

Masturbation is a totally natural thing and most people do it, although not many like to admit it. I say, if she's by herself under the sheets, then who cares what she's doing under there. Try not to turn this into such a negative.


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

del88 said:


> Masturbation is a totally natural thing and most people do it, although not many like to admit it. I say, if she's by herself under the sheets, then who cares what she's doing under there. Try not to turn this into such a negative.


What are you talking about? I don't think you read any of that. I didn't turn anything negative. I told you I had trouble in the beginning, then came to accept it, and now I feel it's a very positive thing.

The problem is that she's very much the opposite; would never accept it, accuses me all the time even when I don't, and if I was open with her about it, see talks about divorce. Completely hypocritical.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> Part of *why I started up again* is because I started to grow suspicious that SHE was.


 qbert, a lot of people have posted to you, suggesting that you and your wife live in a perpetual world of tit for tat. Do you see it? 

It is VERY unhealthy. 

You are NOT side by side. 

You are side AGAINST side.

How can you have a healthy marriage until you learn humility, STOP one-upping each other, and work - and talk - together for a common goal?

You didn't start masturbating because she WRONGED you, so you now have an excuse to do what you wanted to do in the first place.

You went LOOKING for a reason to GET to do what you WANTED to do in the first place.

Marriage is not self-preservation. It is caring enough about another person that you gain pleasure out of seeing THEM happy.

What can you show as an example that either of you are doing to make each OTHER happy?


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

Out of everything I posted THAT is the one thing you picked up on and ran with?

I said that was PART of the reason, I didn't give myself an excuse for it.

We're side-by-side for about 70-90% (sometimes 100%) of every day and our marriage works great and we're very happy ... until one or the other does something and then we have a LOT of trouble with each other.

And just because I'm talking about things that I dislike and problems that we have, there's no reason for you to jump to these conclusions.

I do plan on creating a thread about how much I love my wife and all the ways we have a good relationship, but I'm posting these threads for a reason, too. Not to be talked down to, but to get advice on these real problems.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No one is talking down to you. You do seem to have a chip on your shoulder, however. No matter what anyone says to you, you shoot back at them with reasons why they are wrong. What good does that do? 

You two obviously are not enjoying each other like you should, based on what you describe, and people here are offering suggestions for making your marriage more enjoyable. It's as simple as that. No one can make you listen; that's your choice. But what people are suggesting _will_ make a difference for you, if you would just stop being so defensive and think about the suggestions. It's up to you.


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

I've been listening. I prefer to listen to people that actually read what I write. I realize it's a lot, but it's like you're talking about a completely different topic than what I am, so what's the point of you posting?

And I would say YOU have a chip on your shoulder about men, because I was asking about my wife masturbating and her concerns about me. You jumped on me giving excuses for myself, which I wasn't and had nothing to do with the topic here.

Try reading again. Have anything to say about what I asked about?


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

How about this. To summarize what I rambled about up top:

I'm fine with my wife masturbating.

She would NOT be fine with me doing it. She gets paranoid and mad at me and accuses me even when I didn't do it.

See the issue?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And my point is...why?

What is it about YOU that she is uncomfortable with regarding this? 

I am not saying you are the cause of all your issues. I'm saying you are the cause of 50% of your issues, since you are 50% of your marriage. Until you approach your marriage with the realization that _you affect her_ and vice versa, you will continue to feel put upon.


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

When did I ever say I don't approach our marriage that way? I DO! That's the whole point. I keep changing, she stays the same or gets worse. Please read through the rest of what I post.

I've always been willing to compromise. I've always been willing to talk things out. I generally let her win all debates.

And I don't think it's just me that makes her that way. Previous relationships were full of mistrust and I think she feels like she's wrong for doing it. Like it's dirty or something.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You said elsewhere that you give in and let her do whatever. That doesn't make someone feel good; it makes them feel worse.

Bottom line is you two are not working together for the benefit of the marriage. You are two separate people who have their own issues and keep up walls. 

What about a good marriage counselor? Where you can learn to talk to each other without getting into fights?


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## qbert (Mar 31, 2010)

I would LOVE to go to a marriage counselor. She doesn't want to and feels I need to fix MY problems then maybe she'll consider it, but she's very against the idea that she's doing anything wrong and hates the idea of anyone thinking she needs a psychologist.


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## MMA_FIGHTER (Feb 2, 2009)

qbert said:


> If you're seeing me post a lot of things, it's not that I think my wife is horrible, it's just that we've had a lot of "issues" over the years and I haven't been able to talk about them, so I'm kinda unloading.
> 
> First, we have a very healthy sex-life. We take care of each other and don't seem to have any problems there. But, since the beginning, she's been worried about me masturbating. She gets very upset thinking about it and has a hard time believing me.
> 
> ...


dude i feel bad for you, you shouldnt be ashamed of masturbating...its natural, and completely normal....i dont understand why anyone would hold that against you. with that said, i will always pick my wife over masturbation anytime..so what if she accuses you, just say yeah i do .... and since you know she does just tell her whats good for the goose is good for the gander....there is no double standard....anytime im about to do it i tell my wife im gonna go relieve myself, then tell her she can either watch or participate...or go into the other room. either way im getting my rocks off.....besides is she honestly gonna be able to stop you?


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## AJ2010 (Apr 2, 2010)

Does her masturbating turn you on? If so, let her know. Ask her to video it and send you the video on your phone while you're away (at work, out with the guys, etc). My wife has done this on occasion, after I begged her to for months, and it drives me crazy! I can't wait to get home and see her.
On the same topic, why not video yourself masturbating and send it to her? Tell her how you were remembering a really hot sexual situation with her when you were doing it. My wife loves to hear how I masturbate when she's away at work, and it really makes her hot when I describe memories of the really steamy times we got it on!
I would guess its not the act of masturbating that upsets your wife, but maybe the idea that you're masturbating to thoughts of other women or porn. If you let her know that you think of her while you do it, maybe she'll be more comfortable with the idea. 
Another option is for her to video herself masturbating and leave the tape for you to watch when you masturbate. You could then return the favor by videoing yourself masturbating, while watching her tape. Make lots of comments while you do it, letting her know how much it turns you on. If she's uncomfortable with making a video of the actual act, suggest she just video her face while she does it. I love the look on my wife's face while she's getting off and the sounds she makes!
Basically, let her know that masturbation isn't you fantasizing about anyone but her, and that it isn't a substitute for sex, but an extension of your sexual relationship with her. If she doesn't see it as a threat to your attraction for her, but a RESULT of your attraction, maybe she won't be as intimidated by it.
Also, let her know you don't care if she masturbates, and that it in fact turns you on. If she can confidently know you don't think its wrong for her to do, you can reassure her its perfectly natural for you to do it as well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Great idea.


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## dasani (Jul 13, 2012)

gbert...here's a thought for you. A very wise man once told me that if one partner is accusing the other of something, it is very likely that the one accusing, is actually the guilty party....(thier guilt makes them parinoid that the other partner is doing it also). 
I know you have pretty much already confirmed this to be true with the masturbation....but is there any possibility that it is more than just masturbation?? I'm not suggesting that she is having an affair...but could she possibly be fantasizing about other men? This could be the underlying reason why she is defensive when you try to talk about masturbation (guilt from what she is thinking about when she does it) and why she doesn't want you to do it.

Additionally, it could also explain why she is so jealous and gets angry when she thinks you are looking (or talking) to other women...possibly because she has bad thoughts about other men. AND being quick to "threaten" you with divorce (unfortunately) is a very, VERY bad sign (and is indeed a big red flag for someone wanting to "explore" outside their marrage). 

And lastly, her thoughts about other men (or a man) could be the root cause of her overall anger, hostility, not willing to accept help, not willing to go to counsiling, ***not able to tolorate your snoring, and every other issue you guys may have that is pulling your marriage is different direction. 

My suggestion for you is, WORK ON YOUR RELATIONSHIP 
-first, do whatever you need to do to get back in the bedroom. I'm a snorer too...I can give you some advice on what I did if you want (just ask).
-second, stop masturbating! if you sex life is healthy, just stop.
-third, let her masturbate if she wants, as long as you sex life is healthy - as you said, this is natural and (shouldn't) affect your relationship
-lastly, there have been some suggestions on standing up to her. I think this is in order. From experience, this has some benifit. When we are trying to "fix" a problem, it's natural to be as nice as possible and bend over backwards to try and accomidate your partner. But, you need to try and be partners again, but make sure she understands that your not going to be her doormat! Just be a man! Make sure she understands, that you wear the pants and she is not ALLOWED to be disrepectful to you. She will appreciate you being in control!!!

just my two cents....but your situation is very similar to mine but we are more in love today than we have ever been.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't know. She seems pretty paranoid. Masturbation as a form of cheating. Checking your phone and computer checking for stuff when it's pretty clear that you're not. 

She's paranoid to the point where I'm wondering if SHE'S hiddening something from you! It's like she's hoping to find something to hang over your head to ease her own guilt about something she may be doing.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

2 year old thread--and I don't think the OP is around anymore.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

HappyHer said:


> It sounds like your wife has some major insecurity issues. Masturbation is healthy and can add to the relationship unless you are using it to avoid intimacy with your partner.
> 
> As far as the porn, that is an individual preference and many women feel it's not a good thing. That is really up to each couple to decide on how to work with it.
> 
> I would say some deep communication is in order.












I deep conversation...compromise is the key


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## romanseight2004 (Jul 17, 2012)

qbert said:


> If you're seeing me post a lot of things, it's not that I think my wife is horrible, it's just that we've had a lot of "issues" over the years and I haven't been able to talk about them, so I'm kinda unloading.
> 
> First, we have a very healthy sex-life. We take care of each other and don't seem to have any problems there. But, since the beginning, she's been worried about me masturbating. She gets very upset thinking about it and has a hard time believing me.
> 
> ...



Can I suggest that first of all, porn and masturbation are two completely separate and different issues. Her issue with porn, likely has to do with who she thinks you are thinking about during. I also wonder if perhaps she's not getting enough sex from you? She may be supplementing with masturbation, in which she fantasizes about you. That's not even in the same league as you watching porn and masturbating to it. Now if you are only picturing her when you masturbate, then you guys can solve this, merely by having more sex.

Oh, and I also am wondering if you have wandering eyes out in public. That could make her paranoid about your attraction to her. Just some thoughts.

I just saw where you said you found porn on her computer. I have one more question for you. Do you have a filtering program where she can check what you have been looking at form her computer? Because that would cause there to be porn on there. 

I am only asking this, because it seems odd to me that she would really be doing the exact same thing, if she was really bothered with you doing it. 

The other thing I mad add, is that if she is really not getting enough sex, and you are masturbating, you could really be limiting the amount of sex you are having with her. That would not be the same case for her. In fact, masturbating may well increase her libido, and her ability to have sex with you, when you want it. However, you masturbating could be robbing her of sex time with you, does that make sense?


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

My wife knows that I jerk it often and has no problem with it. As a matter of fact, she prob prefers that I do so that it will lessen the chances of me bothering her for sex. She has a LD and me a very HD. 

She denies that she does it and knows that it turns me on to even think about her masturbating. I've only got her to do it once for me during foreplay and it was a very hot moment for me and, from what I could tell, her, too. But she is the vanilla/conservative sex type and has rebuffed my requests to repeat that performance. 

I'm sure that if she does, she'll never let me know due to shyness, etc. I have no problem telling her that I do it and do it often and she has no quams with me enjoying some good internet porn. Wives that break their husband's balls over watching porn (and especially the ones that consider that cheating) are being narrow-minded. 

Even if my wife gave in to my sex requests, I would still rub one out every chance that I get. It's no strike against her; it's merely my horniness taking over. And firing up the laptop to enjoy some porn is totally innocent.


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## GhostRydr (Jun 2, 2012)

Jeez...first of all how dare ANYONE "accuse" someone of jerking off????? Thats like being accused of breathing air or eating.

Men..if you have a problem with your lady masturbating...turn in your MAN CARD...

Ladies...if you are in shock your hubby does it...join the REAL WORLD where its too bad if you think he shouldnt cuz you should be enough for him...thats idealized nonsense.

I just dont get adults/couples who play this secret/shame game of, "what... who ME masturbate"? NONSENSE!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

40, try buying this book. It has invitations you give each other and you set up 'evenings' for great sex. Some of them are fairly tame, if she's shy. It may help get her to be more relaxed around you and have fun with it, may lead to more. No guarantees, but must be better than what you have.
http://www.amazon.com/52-Invitation...3&sr=1-1&keywords=52+invitations+to+great+sex


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Do you think your wife might have bpd. These things sound like things my wife would say. Why can't you admit to masturbating? It's totally healthy ti do so as long as its not a crutch. Dont let her make you feel like it. You sound like a classic "Nice guy". Seek out the book "No more Mr Nice Guy"and.learn how looking after your own pleasure will actually contribute to her pleasure.


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## J.R.Jefferis (Jun 27, 2012)

It seems you are dealing with a double standard which doesn't seem fair to you. As many other have said in this thread, your marriage needs some open, honest and loving communication on this issue. I think that if you sincerely expressed to her that you feel OK about what she does, but that you would also like to have the freedom to enjoy the same things, she should be understanding. You know, many times when there is a lack of communication in a relationship, we begin to imagine things about how the other person really feels about something. It could be that if you just opened up to her about the topic and just expressed that all you want is some equality, you might be surprised at her response.

JR


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## bartman (Sep 4, 2013)

Re: My husband masturbates when I'm not around....... 

I know this is a 2010 subject but I am new to " TALK ABOUT>..." .

Perhaps a referee is what's needed. Acquire a firm listener type..
buy him a shreak whistle... get Mr./Ms. into the nearest soundproof
room... upon which ref. declares... " When you two hockey pucks were betroved, unsaid (but intimated - due to children in the belfray) ....

" Do you Marsha take this man's vital organ to love etc. "
" Do you John take Marsha's lovely love nest to etc."

I didn't intend to be the accusee or incenuatee of any past
perhaps carnal activety between ref. & comely 'Marsh' (her knickname at Lake Consolidated class of '69)

Probably they have gone their separate ways by now & their
divorce decree was filed in the judges personal secure safe behind
his well stocked hidden bar.

God, I'd give anything almost my small kingdom to read how certain unmentionable posessions were settled !!!


Bartman - member since Sept 2013


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

qbert
Have you suggested to her to see a doctor about her snoring? I know that doesn't have anything to do with masturbating but there are ways to curb the snoring. Then you can sleep in the same room with her.

Idea. Maybe you can give her a hand so to speak with the masturbating. Put you hand on her vagina and have her move your hand. That way your including yourself with her and it could be enjoyable and make her feel a bit more compfy. Just a suggestion


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