# Sexually Desired, What does that mean to you?



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

From reading around various threads here, I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss. 

How do you perceive sexual desire (or to be desired)? Is how you express your desire to your SO how you want it expressed back to you? Is it something as simple as your SO just putting in the effort in terms of maintaining your sex life. Maybe it is initiating or wanting them to be hornballs ready to rip your clothes off? Is it how many orgasms are had? Is it a particular sex act? Could it be non sexual things that make you feel sexually desired?

Part of what got me thinking about this, there was a thread here where the OPs wife, due to a variety of reasons, lost interest in sex. Even though she was still willing to have sex, b/c the desire wasn't there it was viewed unfavorably (more like duty sex). I am not trying to pick on this person, but in a case like this, it would appear that his feeling wanted / desired went beyond just a willingness to have sex.

In another thread a member posted this:



> YES YES YES!! Every man needs to read this!!! There is nothin worse then being asked if you want to have sex!! Make a move!!! And if doesn’t lead to sex that’s ok!! Those things are still nice without sex!


So it would be appear that in part feeling desired would be the SO just going for it without having to ask. One thing though, the above seems to be directed at men (I believe the person who posted this was a female). However, why wouldn't this apply to females to? Wouldn't most men feel desired as well if women did this?

I have no idea why, the below gif came up when I searched sexual desire, so maybe murder by vacuum does it for you???:


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

For me, personally, I want to feel like something you have done (direct action, preparation, planning) was because you wanted to by physically intimate with me. That could be anything from actually kissing/touching me, preparing yourself to be touched, preparing a time or place for it to occur, etc.

What's really funny about that, is that when my wife does some of those things, especially the preparing herself or time/place, she is way more turned on, because she took the time to focus and think about it.

It works for both sides!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

It's means she initiates sex.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I think there is more then that. I am ok with initiating the physical actions, if I feel like my wife is enticing me.

She said to me one time that she wanted to feel like I was a predator chasing her (not like sexual predator, you know what I mean). So I told her that I don't feel like she wants to be chased. No predator chases prey that isn't edible or that presents itself as non-edible. That's how defense mechanisms like the possum evolved. So, I am ready to chase, stop playing possum.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Tasorundo said:


> She said to me one time that she wanted to feel like I was a predator chasing her (not like sexual predator, you know what I mean). So I told her that I don't feel like she wants to be chased. No predator chases prey that isn't edible or that presents itself as non-edible. That's how defense mechanisms like the possum evolved. So, I am ready to chase, stop playing possum.


So in a case like this, there definitely seems to be a disconnect. It sounds somewhat similar to times where my W told me she was happy to have sex as much as I wanted, but then would give off cues that she had no interest (so yeah, why would I bother initiating). Is it maybe just a way of shifting the responsibility so it isn't theirs?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Tasorundo said:


> I want to feel like something you have done (direct action, preparation, planning) was because you wanted to by physically intimate with me.


This could be even "neutral" treatment of me, if she showed no interest in other men, either. Just "not negative" would be welcome. I could live with "responsive desire" if other men were viewed the same.....


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

No one has sexually desired me in years. I haven’t felt like a real woman for over four years now. 

Sexual desire to me isn’t just about the act of intercourse. (If memory is serving) It’s a primal need to touch, smell and taste your partner. To want to have their skin on yours. The need for intimate connection. 

Using the example of my current relationship... with there being male performance issues, I still feel like if the sexual desire was actually there, that would mean there still be present a desire to get naked with your partner, to still give to them because you have to have that whole connecting experience of touch and skin on skin. I myself have realized that since this has been taken from me that my own sexual desire, at least for this person, has faded out. It’s pretty much impossible to maintain that desire for someone when they do not reciprocate that feeling. It’s crushing. I can’t even explain it. 

I miss desire very much. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> It’s pretty much impossible to maintain that desire for someone when they do not reciprocate that feeling. It’s crushing. I can’t even explain it.


My own explanation to myself is that our instinct to protect ourselves from pain is one of our strongest. We learn to avoid the inevitable "crushing" experience.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> It's means she initiates sex.


Can dance around it anyway you want but it comes down to this for me as well.


Tasorundo said:


> I think there is more then that. I am ok with initiating the physical actions, if I feel like my wife is enticing me.
> 
> She said to me one time that she wanted to feel like I was a predator chasing her (not like sexual predator, you know what I mean). So I told her that I don't feel like she wants to be chased. No predator chases prey that isn't edible or that presents itself as non-edible. That's how defense mechanisms like the possum evolved. So, I am ready to chase, stop playing possum.


I agree with you here, but couldnt one view even enticing as a form of initiation? Maybe just a slightly more passive way of saying you would like to have sex.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I feel bad for people (here and elsewhere) who don’t feel desired by their spouse. I’m sure in some cases, they really are desired but their spouse is inept in expressing it.

In other cases, their spouse actually does not desire them...different reasons here. Some could probably be addressed but many can’t. Also there is bait and switch, where the spouse maybe played up their desire for you because they had an end goal in mind and now that they have achieved it, no need to express desire.

I don’t know how to describe it, but the kind of desire I require from a partner simply cannot be faked. It’s something that they cannot hide from me even if they wanted to.

From my end, I’ve learned from my ex h that women are not always good at expressing their desire in ways that men enjoy and understand. He basically helped me by leading by example. The way he allowed his desire for me to spill over into most moments of the day, these were actions that I had not learned yet but once I saw it coming from him something clicked.

So now I know how to go about expressing my desire for someone in ways he can clearly understand.

Yes that includes initiating sex, but with me that part is different anyway because all of my partners know I’m DTF pretty much any time. So initiating sex doesn’t necessarily mean “I desire you” it could just mean “I’m horny”. My ex h explained this nuanced difference to me.

Maybe men could take a note on that part: just wanting to have sex with us doesn’t necessarily express desire. The desire to get off is not the same as desire for a specific person for specific reasons.

I learned to craft words to use that expressed my desire. I learned that when I’m turned on by some very specific thing about a man, to tell him about it and make sure he knows what I mean.

So this might be telling him about a specific body part of his that I love. Or it may be the way he walks and holds himself, or when he shows some kind of manly skill. Once my boyfriend was helping me move and literally threw a couch over his shoulder and packed it out like it was nothing. My panties were immediately soaked! But because we were busy and had to finish up, I waited until later to tell him how much it turned me on to see how strong he is.

Strong men seem to brush you off when you say things like this, I think because they really don’t see it as a big deal and they really don’t understand why it turns us on so much. So I’ve learned that I need to really say it with flair and emphasis to get them to “hear” me.

In other cases, I will show him I desire him by looking at him as if he is a giant piece of steak I am about to devour. I’ve learned over the years - by feedback - that sometimes you think you are looking at a guy like this but it doesn’t actually show on your face. At this time I have it down pretty well. I’ve even made at least one man look back at me and say “should I be worried about my safety right now? You look like you’re literally going to eat me!”


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> I feel bad for people (here and elsewhere) who don’t feel desired by their spouse. *I’m sure in some cases, they really are desired but their spouse is inept in expressing it.*


So I wonder, is it maybe just an inability to see outside of our love language, or maybe something more? A good example would be having a crappy day. I know for my W, her language after a day like that would be to use me as a sounding board so she could vent, show empathy and support. That would help with her desire towards me. Now on the other hand, if I had a crappy day the best thing my W could do for me is to take care of me physically. That would make me feel desired / wanted. What she needs in a situation like that (venting, support) would do zero for me. Her approach would be to treat me like how she would want to be treated, and not necessarily how I would want to be treated. In cases like this, it would seem to be more an issue with speaking to the person in their love language and not yours. 

I don't think this is always the case (as you mentioned, there are cases where there is simply no desire whether do to bait & switch or other reason), or maybe the person is just uncomfortable expressing themselves in a sexual way (even if they are comfortable with the person they are with).

It is an interesting topic for me as I look at my relationship and areas where I feel desired (or not).


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

The message you quoted was in response to my having posted this: 

"If you're asking what can a guy do to put me in the mood when I'm not there already then that is a different question. I'm the type that absolutely despises being asked for sex. If you want me to have sex with you, make a move, do something to turn me on, don't say "can we have sex?" or my STBX's favorite "you tired?" That's the worlds' worst way to initiate sex. That makes me feel like it's not so much about me as my body part that you want if that makes sense. It doesn't feel like you're particularly desiring me, just that I'm here and you're wanting sex so I'm the only option."

For me, I think that can absolutely go both ways!!!!!!!!!! Men have just as much right to feel desired and wanted as women do. I have been known to put my money where my mouth is so I can assure you that in a relationship, I do initiate sex and that I never do it by asking for sex.  

As for the vacuum blowing up...I guess that was one hell of a blow job!!!!!!!!!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

notmyjamie said:


> For me, I think that can absolutely go both ways!!!!!!!!!! Men have just as much right to feel desired and wanted as women do. I have been known to put my money where my mouth is so I can assure you that in a relationship, I do initiate sex and that I never do it by asking for sex.


I am on board with you about the asking thing, I cringe when my W does it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> So I wonder, is it maybe just an inability to see outside of our love language, or maybe something more? A good example would be having a crappy day. I know for my W, her language after a day like that would be to use me as a sounding board so she could vent, show empathy and support. That would help with her desire towards me. Now on the other hand, if I had a crappy day the best thing my W could do for me is to take care of me physically. That would make me feel desired / wanted. What she needs in a situation like that (venting, support) would do zero for me. Her approach would be to treat me like how she would want to be treated, and not necessarily how I would want to be treated. In cases like this, it would seem to be more an issue with speaking to the person in their love language and not yours.
> 
> I don't think this is always the case (as you mentioned, there are cases where there is simply no desire whether do to bait & switch or other reason), or maybe the person is just uncomfortable expressing themselves in a sexual way (even if they are comfortable with the person they are with).
> 
> It is an interesting topic for me as I look at my relationship and areas where I feel desired (or not).


This is an interesting scenario to me, because I don’t quite see how her initiating sex when you’ve had a bad day would show her “desiring you”.

It would show she cares for you and wants to make you feel better (but not initiating would not mean she doesn’t care or doesn’t want to make you feel better).

If your wife was the type who had shown you clearly all the time that she desires you in general, then her “offering” sex when you had a bad day would not necessarily show you that she desires you. It would be evident at most times and not always connected to having a sexual experience together.

I do think that many women don’t know how to express honest desire, and many men are looking for signs of desire in the forms that men use to express it. I made it a goal for myself to learn to express things so that a man will understand me, but that isn’t a goal many women have so I don’t really expect them to do it as well. They may not realize it is even important.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> This is an interesting scenario to me, because I don’t quite see how her initiating sex when you’ve had a bad day would show her “desiring you”.
> 
> It would show she cares for you and wants to make you feel better (but not initiating would not mean she doesn’t care or doesn’t want to make you feel better).
> 
> ...


I think I equate the two. So when I say desire, I don't think I necessarily mean my W is dripping wet waiting for me (not that that is a bad thing lol). However, I do feel desired when my W wants to care for me or make me feel better. I don't know if that makes more sense? I don't know if others perceive it the same way.

In the same way a few months ago after we blew everything up and started things back up again, on a few occasions my W set her alarm to go off early in the morning before i get up so she could start something. Now, for all I know she had zero desire for me at that time (maybe she really wanted to hit the snooze button), but she decided she was going to go ahead with it. For me, that made me feel desired. This may actually go somewhat in line with what @Tasorundo posted, where just the act of planning (and following through) was enough.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I am on board with you about the asking thing, I cringe when my W does it.


I can see why some people may not think asking for sex is sexy. But for me it’s never been a big deal. If I’m in a relationship, we are going to be having sex a lot and how it’s initiated is irrelevant to me. My answer is always “yay, sex!”

I can’t imagine how or why the way they initiate would make a difference to my willingness to have sex or my desire for them. I mean, it’s already been established that we want to have sex with each other. There’s not really anything he could say that would make me not want to have sex (obviously I’m not talking about someone saying weird or gross things). But “hey baby wanna do it?” is a good thing to hear, IMO.

For others who don’t have as high of a sex drive, or who need their partner to only intiate in some certain way, I just can’t relate. But I’m aware of this difference and so I learn as much as I can about people who are different in this way. It helps to learn about those different than yourself.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I think I equate the two. So when I say desire, I don't think I necessarily mean my W is dripping wet waiting for me (not that that is a bad thing lol). However, I do feel desired when my W wants to care for me or make me feel better. I don't know if that makes more sense? I don't know if others perceive it the same way.
> 
> In the same way a few months ago after we blew everything up and started things back up again, on a few occasions my W set her alarm to go off early in the morning before i get up so she could start something. Now, for all I know she had zero desire for me at that time (maybe she really wanted to hit the snooze button), but she decided she was going to go ahead with it. For me, that made me feel desired. This may actually go somewhat in line with what @Tasorundo posted, where just the act of planning (and following through) was enough.


So I think you are saying her wanting to please you makes you feel desired. 

Thanks for sharing, I still don’t quite get it but again, that’s why it’s good to learn about different people.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Someone needs to sell a series of clip on sex status buttons.

Like:

Open for sex I want to have sex if you do.
I want sex with you ASAP.
Sex store closed for today I'm tired but I love you.
I want to give you a hand job blow job as soon as you want one.
I'm open tomorrow for any yes sex button I love you.
Please come play with my body and use me.
I want to use you for sex.
I don't have any panties on, want to see?
I want to eat your special place till you come.

Or, they could be stick ons.

Or a couple could order a set, with custom sayings.

The above are just what quickly came to mind.

If things are clear, many misunderstandings can be avoided. 

😉😉


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> *So I think you are saying her wanting to please you makes you feel desired.*
> 
> Thanks for sharing, I still don’t quite get it but again, that’s why it’s good to learn about different people.


You just said it better than me :grin2: So caring for me / wanting to please me in my language is where I feel desired.



Faithful Wife said:


> If your wife was the type who had shown you clearly all the time that she desires you in general, then her “offering” sex when you had a bad day would not necessarily show you that she desires you. It would be evident at most times and not always connected to having a sexual experience together.


I think this actually brings up an interesting point. Could ones perception of desire change based on the relationship they are in? So if you are having frequent sex (or in the case above, sex every time you have a bad day), than maybe this doesn't necessarily connect with desire (so desire may be shown elsewhere). However, if you are in a relationship where sex is a bit more scarce, then that could alter your definition of what desire is (i.e. if she/he actually wants to have sex now, that must mean they desire me).


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Someone needs to sell a series of clip on sex status buttons.
> 
> Like:
> 
> ...


I always wonder what happens when the real feeling is, I love you, I do. Despite all the issues. But truth is, I really wish I never had to have anything to do with sex ever again.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > *So I think you are saying her wanting to please you makes you feel desired.*
> ...


I guess that’s why I don’t get it. If someone wants to have sex with me because they think it is what will make me feel better, I would not feel desired. I would feel loved and cared for, but not desired. 

If I knew that partner wanted me all the time due to his expression of that all the time, then his offer would be understood to also include his base line desire for me.

If that partner did not seem to desire me organically all the time, I would not assume they desired me when offering sex as a salve.

But I have never been with someone who has difficulty in expressing desire, so my attitudes about this may change if that was in my experience. (Most likely never will be though because mutual desire and passion are on top of the list for me in any relationship).


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I can see why some people may not think asking for sex is sexy. But for me it’s never been a big deal. If I’m in a relationship, we are going to be having sex a lot and how it’s initiated is irrelevant to me. My answer is always “yay, sex!”
> 
> I can’t imagine how or why the way they initiate would make a difference to my willingness to have sex or my desire for them. I mean, it’s already been established that we want to have sex with each other. There’s not really anything he could say that would make me not want to have sex (obviously I’m not talking about someone saying weird or gross things). But “hey baby wanna do it?” is a good thing to hear, IMO.
> 
> For others who don’t have as high of a sex drive, or who need their partner to only intiate in some certain way, I just can’t relate. But I’m aware of this difference and so I learn as much as I can about people who are different in this way. It helps to learn about those different than yourself.


At first I thought yeah I can see how asking would be less than ideal.

But after reading your post, Im thinking nah f that. Ask however you want. And people are leading charmed f-ing lives if their spouse initiating in the wrong way is such a no no. Life is too short and there can be too many other things that can get in the way of intimacy. If my wife is DTF, she can "initiate" however she likes. Grab it, bend over in her nightie with no panties on, place my hand where she wants in bed, hell eat a banana suggestively.

Here's to more people thinking like this. :toast:


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I guess that’s why I don’t get it. If someone wants to have sex with me because they think it is what will make me feel better, I would not feel desired. I would feel loved and cared for, but not desired.


This is how I feel too. Interesting.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I do have to admit, sometimes I'll say "how 'bout a poke"?

But that's an internal joke for us, because we liked Lonesome Dove so much.

Gus was a card.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> How do you perceive sexual desire?


According to my wife, I'm oblivious. She will want to be with me, she tries to drop hints and I just never get the message until her boobs are in my face. What is more confusing is that she sometimes admits to putting her boobs in my face when she is not in the mood just to see how I might react for her own personal entertainment. 

Then if I am the one in the mood, my wife tells me that it is my responsibility to get her in the mood before anything is going to happen. If I ask her what it is she needs me to do it is game over, do not pass go, and do not collect $200. She also admits that when she really does like something I do that she will not tell me because she enjoys more seeing all the new ideas and moves that I will try by keeping me confused. 

That is just how it works for my marriage and after decades the only thing I know is that I do not know anything, yet I would not change it for the world.

Sorry @EllisRedding but I think I am just better off in my marriage staying confused when it comes to understanding desire.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> You just said it better than me :grin2: So caring for me / wanting to please me in my language is where I feel desired.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this actually brings up an interesting point. Could ones perception of desire change based on the relationship they are in? So if you are having frequent sex (or in the case above, sex every time you have a bad day), than maybe this doesn't necessarily connect with desire (so desire may be shown elsewhere). However, if you are in a relationship where sex is a bit more scarce, then that could alter your definition of what desire is (i.e. if she/he actually wants to have sex now, that must mean they desire me).


Ellis, does your wife know that you like to have sex after you've had a bad day? Have you actually talked to her about this?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

One way DW initiates or shows she's available by laying on the couch with her nightie pulled up casually so I can see her panties, or sometimes lack thereof, when I'm in my recliner. 

Or she'll grab my crotch, or just say hey you want to fool around?

Or say, I just finished shaving my legs, want to feel?

I don't mean to sound simplistic but in marriage where there is sex, getting the point of hey lets fool around across can, in some cases, be over-thought.

It's not negotiating for sex. The day that happens, is a bad sign something else is a problem.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

"Sexually Desired, What does that mean to you?"
I have no idea. I don't have a clue. I can't remember anything like that. 
From reading the thread so far What I am gathering is that men can't recognize desire being expressed by women. And women can't figure out when / why men want sex. 
Try this one on for size: 
Sunday afternoon nap and reading kindle reject any suggestions of sex.
Monday Stay up late reading kindle reject sexual advance.
Tuesday ignore any conversation about sex, too busy reading kindle.
Wednesday, work all night
Thursday morning, grope and kiss Husband. He's going to work and she's going to bed so she can work all night.
WTF


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> It's means she initiates sex.


...


.... or responds positively when I initiate. 

Either way works.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

There are lots of definitions of sexual desire in my mind.

When I make out with my wife and lose control and just must have her with passion, she really feeds off my lust and desire for her. She has commented about how good it feels to be that sexually desired.

On the other hand, starfish sex is not desire even though it can be sex. 

To me I have experienced everything from "no, I don't want to do that (aka no desire)" to "I just ovulated, could you pull the car over into some remote driveway as I must have an orgasm, NOW.(although that is not really desire directed at me, it is directed at the closest male available)." I feel that sexual desire among a couple varies over time and over decades. Sometimes only one partner has the real desire and other times both have sexual desire at various levels.

My minimum threshold of sexual desire is that you think highly enough about your partner that you want to pleasure them. It feels good to have someone think that highly of you, kind of the ultimate physical complement. 

One of the hardest things for me to come to grips with was that my low desire partner would offer me her body and feel bad if I didn't accept her gift of physical/emotional love. She would say that I seemed horny and that while she didn't want to orgasm, she wanted to enjoy giving me an orgasm. She would be hurt if I turned her down. I learned that in our HD/LD relationship that she just doesn't want sex as often as I do. It doesn't mean she has no sexual desire for me, it just means that she doesn't like sex as often. 

I think that feelings of sexual desire can get very complicated within an HD/LD relationship. I know that for a time, my LD wife felt that my high sexual desire for her was suffocating and put too much pressure on her. LD does not mean no sexual desire, just different from yours.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Not so long ago my wife told me how important it is for a woman to carefully screen those she might wish to mingle her DNA with. He's gotta' be big, strong, handsome, protective, reliable, a good provider....

All of these things are desirable traits both for improving chances of creating healthy offspring and then subsequently ensuring that offspring has the best possible chance of success. 

Ironically, she didn't know this consciously when we married as we had both decided we weren't interested in children at the time and neither one of us expected to be. And we were both sincere in that assessment at the time. But eventually we decided we were ready and should, and the very first time without conception, BAM, conception took place (actually we had one unwanted pregnancy earlier due to a broken condom, but we lost that baby).

As soon as thing one was off the breast, things got hot again. Same thing after thing 2. I didn't wan't a third, but you know who's going to win that argument. Nevertheless, 3 was the end as we had the baby factory shut down. 

Things cooled off a bit after that.... for like close to two decades.

But she assured me, by being willing to comingle DNA multiple times, that was the highest compliment she could possibly pay me. And she honestly meant it. I still don't think she gets that that's not exactly the type of "desire" I was craving.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> How do you perceive sexual desire (or to be desired)?
> Is how you express your desire to your SO how you want it expressed back to you?
> Is it how many orgasms are had?
> Could it be non sexual things that make you feel sexually desired?


I perceive sexual desire to be a physical attraction felt toward another person resulting in wanting to have sex with that person.

I express my desire to DH verbally and physically through body language, touch, and response to touch. I want desire expressed to me in the same ways.

How many orgasms isn't much of a factor in how sexually desired I feel. Sure, if he brings me to orgasm many times because he's deriving pleasure from my pleasure it makes me feel very desired. But then so does one intense orgasm with minimal effort on his part because I was in the drivers seat and he was too busy being made into goo to do much. It's really more about the level of "into it". Relaxed sleepy passion to loving tender passion to intense reality altering passion...it's the passion that matters.

Non-sexual things don't make me feel sexually desired because they're, well, non-sexual.





EllisRedding said:


> So it would be appear that in part feeling desired would be the SO just going for it without having to ask. One thing though, the above seems to be directed at men (I believe the person who posted this was a female). However, why wouldn't this apply to females to? Wouldn't most men feel desired as well if women did this?


I prefer confident and assertive men by far, so being asked is a bit of a mood killer, at the least, and usually a total turn-off. I prefer the man make the first move. After that, it's game on. I think both genders should initiate once mutual interest has been established.



StillSearching said:


> It's means she initiates sex.


Initiation of sex with a person doesn't necessarily mean sexual desire for that person.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

For me, it's the way he looks at me, the fact that he is constantly touching me, he compliments me and thinks I'm beautiful and sexy. He might grope a bit, send a sweet text. It's just.....obvious.

I show him in similar ways, but im also bold, flirty, I might walk around scantily clad, be waiting in bed after he showers.

I do initiate, but I'll be blunt. If I HAD to be the one to initiate for him to feel desired, we wouldn't have lasted long.

Just me: but I would perceive a man who waits for ME to initiate as cowardly, unmanly, passive, and not "the man" of the relationship.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> How do you perceive sexual desire (or to be desired)? Is how you express your desire to your SO how you want it expressed back to you?


I know I am sexually desired when I get the "hungry" look that says "I want to get my hands on you bad". Or when I get "the kiss" (the one full of passion where a bomb could go off next door and he won't care). Or when he looks forward to and is excited about having sex with me. 

Those are all sexual desire. For me to feel loved, I need a lot of quality time and physical touch. The magic happens when I get the quality time, physical touch, and the sexual desire.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For me it is an indication, though any means, that she very much wants sex, as opposed to she is having sex as a chore / duty.

The indications can be subtle, but they are there. For example here current habit of initiating sex on our "chore" day after when the other chores are finished sends a pretty clear, pretty sad message.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> He's gotta' be big, strong, handsome, protective, reliable, a good provider....


But, after learning that "big, strong, handsome, protective" does not have to marry in order to get sex, and really is not too interested in "providing", or in monogamy, the settle for "reliable, a good provider" then becomes the answer for the "ticking biological clock", and worms for the nest....



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> by being willing to comingle DNA multiple times, that was the highest compliment she could possibly pay me. And she honestly meant it.


Right....it would be lying flattery for her to compliment me as "big, strong, handsome, protective".... so "reliable, a good provider" is the highest one I can get. Once before each pregnancy, and maybe if she's drunk enough, and, not too drunk, and she doesn't have any "big, strong, handsome, protective" guys on TV to watch, I might just "get lucky".... which is in sharp contrast to "desire", which only is true of "big, strong, handsome, protective".


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> 
> 
> > He's gotta' be big, strong, handsome, protective, reliable, a good provider....
> ...


God I hope you're single.

Such bitterness


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> No one has sexually desired me in years. I haven’t felt like a real woman for over four years now.
> 
> Sexual desire to me isn’t just about the act of intercourse. (If memory is serving) It’s a primal need to touch, smell and taste your partner. To want to have their skin on yours. The need for intimate connection.
> 
> ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> From reading around various threads here, I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It’s an interesting topic but I don’t know why people focus so much on things like sexual desire, HD vs LD, who initiates etc, always mostly in isolation. A component in a relationship depends on so many things where the sexual aspect is only one of them. If the relationship is ailing, then the sexual component suffers.
If one kid suffers from diabetes it’s not really helpful to them to discuss what kinds of candy other kids eat, till his sugar problem is fixed.
Dunno.
Perhaps sexual desire (or how it shows) can be used as a barometer of the overall health in a relationship.
Isn’t it obvious though? If your partner wants to boink you, frequently, then it’s hunky dory, no?

One note about initiation: i don’t think it’s very natural for many females to initiate (not just humans, go to zoo, see how females initiate, if at all: it’s a bit messed up and not always straight forward, haha).
My wife’s ‘initiations’ range from starting a fight, to cleaning the house (and everything in between, including grabbing my crotch or sticking her perfect ass out, even more than usual). My initiations used to be typical for a male: sulk (‘cos it’s manly) and expect some serious mind reading. Lately, I try to use my mouth more (down there, but also for talking and verbalising what I want and how much I want/need something; this has improved things significantly because telepathy and perfect mind sync is a wishful thinking...).

In terms of how I want her to show me that she wants me...Not sure I care that much: i like seeing her horny or having urges. I am not sure I would care if they were directed at me or not; though they usually are. I generally have a more ‘extreme’ personality, am more pushy (sexually but also otherwise), sometimes get obsessive if I want something and don’t give up till I get it...She is more balanced, is more likely to compromise/give in and it seems her drive is more reactive: if she feels I want her A LOT (and I show it), she will desire me more.
It only happened after pregnancies where we had a noticeable mismatch and I felt ‘powerless’ for a short time. This was tough and I can’t imagine people living through their whole marriages in this way.

What I have seen happen a lot (but not always, because there are people who truly don’t care or want sex much) is that men will complain about not being wanted or getting certain acts performed for them yet don’t realise that the fire ain’t gonna start by itself till they provide the necessary spark: if it sounds sexist, I don’t care. But there is no equality when it comes to the (typical) male and female sexual drives or sexuality in general between the sexes. Though some women’s drives seem to be closer to that of men’s and vice versa...
Ok I need to sleep now.



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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

The post above is awesome


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Ellis, does your wife know that you like to have sex after you've had a bad day? Have you actually talked to her about this?


Here is the thing Blondi, I rarely ever have bad days or am in a bad mood lol  We did discuss this, but unless I fake having a bad day it is a non event :grin2: I was using it more as an example to explain a difference in how I perceive desire vs my W, not some pressing issue in my marriage.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> I think I equate the two. So when I say desire, I don't think I necessarily mean my W is dripping wet waiting for me (not that that is a bad thing lol). However, I do feel desired when my W wants to care for me or make me feel better. I don't know if that makes more sense? I don't know if others perceive it the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> In the same way a few months ago after we blew everything up and started things back up again, on a few occasions my W set her alarm to go off early in the morning before i get up so she could start something. Now, for all I know she had zero desire for me at that time (maybe she really wanted to hit the snooze button), but she decided she was going to go ahead with it. For me, that made me feel desired. This may actually go somewhat in line with what @Tasorundo posted, where just the act of planning (and following through) was enough.



That’s because men usually equate caring with (getting) sex; women, not always do (justifiably so).
If you changed the thread title to: Caring for your partner: what does that mean to you? 

Then it would make more sense to both sexes.

Sexual acts (spontaneous or planned) are signs that someone cares about you, to (most) men. No problem is big enough that a slow, sensual Bj won’t make all better, as we say in our household...

That is not necessarily the case in reverse...(actually, the majority of the time, it will not be the case, statistically). I lost count of how many times my wife has kicked me in my nuts, after I proudly offered her my ‘oral services’ when she was at the bottom or depressed about something. What she actually needed were my AURAL services apparently, duh.

So I think maybe let’s first work out what it is you are asking about 
If your wife thinks your hot, it will alleviate 99% of your frustrations for a meaningful period of time, if you find your wife hot, it won’t alleviate 1% of her issues and create perhaps 50% additional head- and nut-aches for you...

Though one thing I can state with certainty: my wife has unequivocally confirmed several times to me now that sex really helps her with her headaches! (As in, makes them go away). So all this bs about not wanting to have sex due to headaches seems to be bit of b*ll*cks. Basically, if your wimmins like headaches, they will actively avoid you making a sexy explosion into them 




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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

After posting my reply earlier today, I drove to pick my daughter up from college for the weekend and got stuck in the worst traffic ever so my 1 1/2 hr drive turned into a 3 hour drive to get her. I was bored and started thinking about this topic some more. 

A few thoughts came to mind. For me, there is a huge difference in desire in the sense that one type means "I love you, you're my partner, my life and I very much want to make you happy and keep you in my life." The other is "my skin burns with the want of your touch" type desire. 

If I'm honest, I crave both and I need both. My STBX gave me one, but never the other. He did show me he loved me quite a lot for many years. He was very considerate, loving, kind, generous, affectionate etc. But he never made me feel like he had to have me sexually. Maybe it's because I've gone so long without true sexual desire from him that I'm jaded about it. When he "asked" for sex, it was usually a "are you tired tonight?" in a bored voice. I never felt like he really desired me but that he felt like having an orgasm and since I was there and his wife, I was his only option. As it turned out, I was right about him not desiring me, but wrong about being his only option. I really need to learn to listen to my gut more often.

Now, an ex of mine would ask to have sex sometimes. He also did all kinds of other things all the time to let me know he desired me sexually and needed me desperately in that way. Sometimes he initiated by making a move, one that he knew I wouldn't ever turn down. Other times he'd "ask" but in a fun, creative, sensual way. It never felt the same as when my STBX forced himself to ask me. 

I also know that sometimes the ex initiated because he needed to feel close to me, needed to be connected and intimate and other times he just needed to get laid. Because there was enough of the former, I never minded the latter...in fact, those times were quite satisfying for me too. And the same could be said about me when I initiated. It's all about balance, at least for me.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> I always wonder what happens when the real feeling is, I love you, I do. Despite all the issues. But truth is, I really wish I never had to have anything to do with sex ever again.


Well, I guess it would be kind of like one partner saying that they love you, they really do but they're going to quit working and just sit around the house all day drinking.

It's nice that they love you, but it would probably be best to move on.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> So caring for me / wanting to please me in my language is where I feel desired.





Faithful Wife said:


> I guess that’s why I don’t get it. If someone wants to have sex with me because they think it is what will make me feel better, I would not feel desired. I would feel loved and cared for, but not desired.


If we're talking about sexually desired, then I'm with FW.

Wanting to please me in my language is VERY important to me, but I don't see that as an indication of my wife sexually desiring me.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> ...
> 
> 
> .... or responds positively when I initiate.
> ...


I'd say as long as she almost always responds positively when I initiate


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> One of the hardest things for me to come to grips with was that my low desire partner would offer me her body and feel bad if I didn't accept her gift of physical/emotional love. She would say that I seemed horny and that while she didn't want to orgasm, she wanted to enjoy giving me an orgasm. She would be hurt if I turned her down. I learned that in our HD/LD relationship that she just doesn't want sex as often as I do. It doesn't mean she has no sexual desire for me, it just means that she doesn't like sex as often.


I believe this is a common situation in good relationships between a spontaneous desire man and a responsive desire women.

It's a perfectly fine and loving way to occasionally deal with different levels of sexual desire.

It seems several modern memes are working against this now.


The increasingly common feeling that women's sex drives are essentially the same as men.

If a woman isn't having an orgasm every time, she's not enjoying sex.

If a woman doesn't have an orgasm, the man is doing something wrong.

If a woman doesn't have an orgasm, she is doing something wrong.

A woman having sex without having an orgasm is being used by the man.

Women should never have sex unless they want to (often interpreted as "wanting to have an orgasm").

Women have been trained by society to always put other's happiness first and they should stop doing that
.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Middle of Everything said:


> At first I thought yeah I can see how asking would be less than ideal.
> 
> But after reading your post, Im thinking nah f that. Ask however you want. *And people are leading charmed f-ing lives if their spouse initiating in the wrong way is such a no no*.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> But she assured me, by being willing to comingle DNA multiple times, that was the highest compliment she could possibly pay me. And she honestly meant it. I still don't think she gets that that's not exactly the type of "desire" I was craving.


It doesn't matter what one does to "prove their love" if that thing isn't something their partner values.

The woman who shows her love for her husband by keeping a tidy house...

The man who shows his love by working 80 hours a week to provide for his wife....


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> So in a case like this, there definitely seems to be a disconnect. It sounds somewhat similar to times where my W told me she was happy to have sex as much as I wanted, but then would give off cues that she had no interest (so yeah, why would I bother initiating). Is it maybe just a way of shifting the responsibility so it isn't theirs?


My initial take was; if she enjoys the sex and is always happy to have sex when you want it, then what's the problem?

Then I thought; what if my wife liked going on dates and I said "I'm happy to take you on a date anytime you want", but I never initiated a date.

And the thought that is most disturbing is; if she was married to a guy who didn't care how she felt, she'd probably be having a lot more sex with him than she has with you.

That's not the right way to think about it. But, it's there.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I believe this is a common situation in good relationships between a spontaneous desire man and a responsive desire women.
> 
> It's a perfectly fine and loving way to occasionally deal with different levels of sexual desire.
> 
> ...


I numbered your bullets so I could offer my thoughts on each.

1. The word essentially is problematic, but in essence I agree.

2. Definitely disagree. I also disagree the same if you substitute man for woman.

3. Definitely disagree. Ditto above. I mean, it could be true. But the statement as a fact and as always his fault, no. 

4. Possibly true.

5. Possibly true. Definitely not true for me.

6. True. Not true on the orgasm part, for me. I want sex with or without an O. If I don’t want sex, it’s not going to happen. But I don’t recall too many of those moments in relationships.

7. Some women probably have issues with this the same way that men who have NG tendencies have issues with women and communication. It’s good to understand both sides and how this occurs and what the fallout is. If any. In my own life, being a good girl was never a priority, so I can’t speak about those men and women who came to their sexual adulthood thinking they had to have sex a certain way or be shamed or shunned. I don’t know what it was like for them, and it is possible that had I been raised in a strict religion I may have shut down all my sexual energy. I guess we just can’t know what we would be if we didn’t have our own history. For me, bottom line, if we are going to say number 7 is true then it is true for men and women both. Everyone needs more self care.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> And the thought that is most disturbing is; if she was married to a guy who didn't care how she felt, she'd probably be having a lot more sex with him than she has with you.



And she would probably be enjoying it a lot more too, because sex is a bit like driving a car: if you leave it alone for too long, the battery runs out. A car is supposed to be driven not let stand around and get all dusty.
I don’t think it’s a disturbing thought: I always thought it’s true even though she doesn’t think it is. How would she know if she never tried though? (Having more sex with somebody more selfish and more attractive).
That’s another difference between us: her brain is pragmatic while I constantly live in hypotheticals and alternative universe scenarios (which she rolls her eyes about because she thinks it’s a waste of time).



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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> If we're talking about sexually desired, then I'm with FW.
> 
> Wanting to please me in my language is VERY important to me, but I don't see that as an indication of my wife sexually desiring me.


That is what makes the topic interesting as everyone has a different perception of what sexual desire means to them 

I do believe a part of it still comes down to how things are in the relationship. If I was having a rip roaring sex life, than yeah, my W wanting to have sex to please me would probably not be perceived as sexual desire. However, take a marriage where sex has been an issue and the SO doesn't show a whole lot of interest in sex, and I think you can see why a scenario where they take care of you sexually could more likely be perceived as sexual desire. This is in line with my other post where I mentioned my W setting the alarm so she could get up early and start something. She may have very well had little interest in sex or sexual desire towards me at that moment. However, b/c she went out of her way to initiate in a way that was not the norm, that made me feel sexually desired.

One interesting thing as well where I think you can see a little bit of gender difference. Several of the ladies here when describing sexual desire have a more involved or thought out idea of what it means. However, for some of the guys, it is much more simplistic (just initiate / be responsive).


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> That is what makes the topic interesting as everyone has a different perception of what sexual desire means to them
> 
> I do believe a part of it still comes down to how things are in the relationship. If I was having a rip roaring sex life, than yeah, my W wanting to have sex to please me would probably not be perceived as sexual desire. However, take a marriage where sex has been an issue and the SO doesn't show a whole lot of interest in sex, and I think you can see why a scenario where they take care of you sexually could more likely be perceived as sexual desire.


This hits the nail on the head of what I was thinking. My husband describes it as really loving seared tuna, but when you are starving a saltine tastes good. Simplistic, I know.




> This is in line with my other post where I mentioned my W setting the alarm so she could get up early and start something. She may have very well had little interest in sex or sexual desire towards me at that moment. However, b/c she went out of her way to initiate in a way that was not the norm, that made me feel sexually desired.


On balance, our sex life is pretty awesome. But we have dry spells. In one now, actually. DH would love this too. She says as she types her last couple of sentences before waking him up.  I won't lie. I don't entirely get it. But I don't need to to do it. For me, it will likely re-revv our engines for the longer run. And that is good!

I am glad your wife sees this. It would be an easy issue to entrench oneself. Yay for Ellis! I mean, I would rather be cheering for seared tuna too!



> One interesting thing as well where I think you can see a little bit of gender difference. Several of the ladies here when describing sexual desire have a more involved or thought out idea of what it means. However, for some of the guys, it is much more simplistic (just initiate / be responsive).


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

"Sexual acts (spontaneous or planned) are signs that someone cares about you, to (most) men"

If only women would understand and accept this instead of trying to change it. This is how most men are. So either choose and live accordingly, or don't bother getting married lol


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> "Sexual acts (spontaneous or planned) are signs that someone cares about you, to (most) men"
> 
> If only women would understand and accept this instead of trying to change it. This is how most men are. So either choose and live accordingly, or don't bother getting married lol


That's simplistic in my view. Getting married does not automatically engender trust. In the early days, DH made a bit of a muddle of this communication in that he was SOOOOO focused on himself and his needs, that I started to feel like a blow up doll. I am eternally grateful that he learned about my feelings at that time. The mantra on here that if she just f'ed him, all would be ok feels so wrong to me since there is another person on the other side of that. It took some solid whacks to the head for DH to "get it" with me. It is not hard to imagine that that is not always the case.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > "Sexual acts (spontaneous or planned) are signs that someone cares about you, to (most) men"
> ...


 In that case, it's a good thing that nothing I typed indicated that a woman was supposed to be a sex on demand pez dispenser or blow up doll. I simply stated that women need to understand that whether they like it or not, most men feel loved by having sex. They are not going to change that basic make up.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> In that case, it's a good thing that nothing I tight indicated that a woman was supposed to be a 6 on demand past dispenser or blow up doll. I simply stated that women need to understand that whether they like it or not, most men feel loved by having sex. They are not going to change that basic make up.


No doubt. How that understanding is achieved is what might be useful to married men.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > In that case, it's a good thing that nothing I tight indicated that a woman was supposed to be a 6 on demand past dispenser or blow up doll. I simply stated that women need to understand that whether they like it or not, most men feel loved by having sex. They are not going to change that basic make up.
> ...


 I know for me, I've always felt that part of my job was to seek to understand my husband. Just like I feel like my husband should seek to understand me. I don't feel like it's his responsibility for me to understand.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I know for me, I've always felt that part of my job was to seek to understand my husband. Just like I feel like my husband should seek to understand me. I don't feel like it's his responsibility for me to understand.


That's lovely. I don't think that will get someone who is struggling with this very far. We (DH and I) both see it as our responsibility to seek understanding for and from each other. One of the things I think that may be an oft ignored gender trait is that men can be very stubborn about their PoV, needs or whatever and go about things in such a linear fashion as to be, well, not very open minded to points of view that do not immediately make sense to them.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

NobodySpecial said:


> That's lovely. I don't think that will get someone who is struggling with this very far. We (DH and I) both see it as our responsibility to seek understanding for and from each other. One of the things I think that may be an oft ignored gender trait is that men can be very stubborn about their PoV, needs or whatever and go about things in such a linear fashion as to be, well, not very open minded to points of view that do not immediately make sense to them.


That's a gender trait?

Color me skeptical. It may be, but I know in my marriage, I've done a helluva' lot more adapting to my wife's POV than she to mine. 

And linear thinking and openmindedness are not mutually exclusive.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> This hits the nail on the head of what I was thinking. My husband describes it as really loving seared tuna, but when you are starving a saltine tastes good. Simplistic, I know.
> 
> On balance, our sex life is pretty awesome. But we have dry spells. In one now, actually. DH would love this too. She says as she types her last couple of sentences before waking him up.  I won't lie. I don't entirely get it. But I don't need to to do it. For me, it will likely re-revv our engines for the longer run. And that is good!
> 
> I am glad your wife sees this. It would be an easy issue to entrench oneself. Yay for Ellis! I mean, I would rather be cheering for seared tuna too!


A lot of this, the idea of sexual desire, for me at least, comes from looking at things in my marriage. When we decided to blow things up several months back and start over again, one of the problems I always had was letting go. I was always about pleasing my W, so much so that it was hard for me to just sit back and let her take care of me. However, for my W, it is actually a huge turn on for her when she can take care of me like this. So then it brings up the question of what exactly revs my engine and makes me feel desired. 

When you look at it, it really is irrelevant whether or not someone thinks what you perceive as sexual desire is sexual desire to them. There is no right answer. Instead, it is important trying to understand each other's sexual desire, what rev's their engine, and hopefully making an effort to meet that (within reason of course).


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That's a gender trait?


Maybe not. Dunno. I am pretty hesitant to assign anything to gender.



> Color me skeptical. It may be, but I know in my marriage, I've done a helluva' lot more adapting to my wife's POV than she to mine.


I think adapting and understanding can be two different things. I hate it when DH does something checklist style while kind of trying to avoid understanding what I mean. 



> And linear thinking and openmindedness are not mutually exclusive.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> "Sexual acts (spontaneous or planned) are signs that someone cares about you, to (most) men"
> 
> If only women would understand and accept this instead of trying to change it. This is how most men are. So either choose and live accordingly, or don't bother getting married lol


I know this sounds super simplistic, but there really is a lot of truth to it. I think it is why you see very often a guy stating something as simple as initiating as a way to feel desired. My W can say every nice thing possible about me, pump up my ego, etc... and yeah that is all nice and good. It still doesn't stand up to when she decides to initiate and take care of me sexually. Sounds stupid, but it is what it is to me.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> "Sexually Desired, What does that mean to you?"
> I have no idea. I don't have a clue. I can't remember anything like that.


This. Exactly this. I have never been sexually desired. At least, I have never detected this in any partner. Maybe I am just oblivious. But I doubt it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> That's lovely. I don't think that will get someone who is struggling with this very far. We (DH and I) both see it as our responsibility to seek understanding for and from each other. One of the things I think that may be an oft ignored gender trait is that men can be very stubborn about their PoV, needs or whatever and go about things in such a linear fashion as to be, well, not very open minded to points of view that do not immediately make sense to them.


That is true. The WAY in which a spouse presents their needs or point of view absolutely makes a big difference.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> "Sexual acts (spontaneous or planned) are signs that someone cares about you, to (most) men"
> 
> If only women would understand and accept this instead of trying to change it. This is how most men are. So either choose and live accordingly, or don't bother getting married lol


This is what I mean when I say this.

I have heard and seen many women respond to this truth about most men in the following ways:

He SHOULDN'T need sex so much

He SHOULDN'T equate sex with love

He SHOULD feel my love in X way instead

Basically, "I don't like that this is what makes him feel loved. He should be different."

That isn't going to happen. This is part of the wiring. So you can clean house and tell him he's great all day long, but at some point, IF you truly w2ant him to feel loved in the way HE feels loved, you need to make his need for sex a priority. If you don't, then you will NOT have an intimate, satisfying marriage - not both of you. You just will not.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

nobodyspecial said:


> maybe not. Dunno. I am pretty hesitant to assign anything to gender.
> 
> that does sound more like you.
> 
> ...


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I numbered your bullets so I could offer my thoughts on each.
> 
> 1. The word essentially is problematic, but in essence I agree.
> 
> ...


Not sure if Im reading both posts wrong here but I think you misinterpreted Buddy's post. 
I think he was simply saying in his opinion the listed bullet points were notions that could work against coules sex lives. 

Or Im wrong and you got that or m wrong and Buddy was saying something else entirely. Going to get more coffee.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> This is what I mean when I say this.
> 
> I have heard and seen many women respond to this truth about most men in the following ways:
> 
> ...


As absolutely spot on true as this all is, I have to concede that this also works both ways. 

Men (or to take gender out of it, any HD wed to a LD) are going to think

She SHOULD want more sex, etc. 

Also not going to happen. She may put some effort into _having _more sex, but that's not the same thing as _wanting _it, which remains a sticking point for many in terms of whether or not the connection is strengthened.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> As absolutely spot on true as this all is, I have to concede that this also works both ways.
> 
> Men (or to take gender out of it, any HD wed to a LD) are going to think
> 
> ...


The word should has no place in marriage IMO.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> How that understanding is achieved is what might be useful to married men.


The "understanding" is easily achieved. "Kids" and "stuff" and "MY family" are IMPORTANT. Husband is only a temporary biological and permanent fiscal necessity, not a part of MY family, and can go to hell in a flaming rowboat. 

I have achieved understanding.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> The "understanding" is easily achieved. "Kids" and "stuff" and "MY family" are IMPORTANT. Husband is only a temporary biological and permanent fiscal necessity, not a part of MY family, and can go to hell in a flaming rowboat.
> 
> I have achieved understanding.


Please seek counseling.

Your view of women is pretty unhealthy and insulting.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think if you are in a marriage with someone who cares so little about you, its worth getting out, no matter what the financial cost of the divorce. 



TJW said:


> The "understanding" is easily achieved. "Kids" and "stuff" and "MY family" are IMPORTANT. Husband is only a temporary biological and permanent fiscal necessity, not a part of MY family, and can go to hell in a flaming rowboat.
> 
> I have achieved understanding.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

TJW said:


> The "understanding" is easily achieved. "Kids" and "stuff" and "MY family" are IMPORTANT. Husband is only a temporary biological and permanent fiscal necessity, not a part of MY family, and can go to hell in a flaming rowboat.
> 
> I have achieved understanding.












It's not unheard of.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Middle of Everything said:


> Not sure if Im reading both posts wrong here but I think you misinterpreted Buddy's post.
> I think he was simply saying in his opinion the listed bullet points were notions that could work against coules sex lives.
> 
> Or Im wrong and you got that or m wrong and Buddy was saying something else entirely. Going to get more coffee.


Buddy was saying that the items he bullet pointed are current memes in our minds, and some of them contradict things that were being discussed on previous posts.

I chimed in to share my thoughts on those bullet points. I honestly don’t agree that the bullet points are as set in the minds of us as he seemed to imply. 

I understood his point, which was that these days most people, both men and women, realize that sex is not just for men’s pleasure, women need O’s too, and all of that. I just think that he has a slant on what some of these bullet points mean or how they are understood in many of us. 

My feelings on his bullet points are very much balanced, I believe. I guess my point was that as a woman who definitely knows why it’s important that everyone has an orgasm if they want one, I also know there are times when sex happens without an O for one or both and that’s fun, too. I don’t think I’m rare in that thought. So we can feel everyone deserves an O but also not be all “screechy” or snarky about it (is how I interpreted some of Buddy’s word choices).


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

@Faithful Wife ,

Any screeching would be extremely off putting 😁😁😁


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Buddy was saying that the items he bullet pointed are current memes in our minds, and some of them contradict things that were being discussed on previous posts.
> 
> I chimed in to share my thoughts on those bullet points. I honestly don’t agree that the bullet points are as set in the minds of us as he seemed to imply.
> 
> ...


That is what i read as well. And I'll be honest, the last one gave me pause.

Bottom line, taking care of every other person in your life to the detriment of yourself ISN'T healthy, and I wouldn't be married to a man who expected that. Ever


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> That is what i read as well. And I'll be honest, the last one gave me pause.
> 
> Bottom line, taking care of every other person in your life to the detriment of yourself ISN'T healthy, and I wouldn't be married to a man who expected that. Ever


Buddy was not saying that he or other men expect their wives to always put others first. He was talking about how girls and women, generally speaking, are groomed to be care takers. This is natural but it also sets up women to ignore their own needs and defer to others needs ahead of theirs. It is not always a problem for women, but it can be and it used to be a much bigger problem.

So he was saying in light of the fact that some women now understand they do not want to defer to the needs of others, they sometimes push hard against any thoughts of doing anything “for a guy”. So in some women that could mean they are strongly against things like NSA BJ’s. 

Buddy was saying this new realization is causing the pendulum to swing too far the other way.

I disagree with that, but I don’t disagree that people (men and women both) will end up grouchy if they become people pleasers. And yes, they then may be grouchy at anything that reminds them of “how they used to be”. However, still being grouchy about it means they are still in the same place emotionally.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> "Sexual acts (spontaneous or planned) are signs that someone cares about you, to (most) men"
> 
> If only women would understand and accept this instead of trying to change it. This is how most men are. So either choose and live accordingly, or don't bother getting married lol





NobodySpecial said:


> That's simplistic in my view. Getting married does not automatically engender trust. In the early days, DH made a bit of a muddle of this communication in that he was SOOOOO focused on himself and his needs, that I started to feel like a blow up doll. I am eternally grateful that he learned about my feelings at that time. The mantra on here that if she just f'ed him, all would be ok feels so wrong to me since there is another person on the other side of that. It took some solid whacks to the head for DH to "get it" with me. It is not hard to imagine that that is not always the case.





personofinterest said:


> I simply stated that women need to understand that whether they like it or not, most men feel loved by having sex. They are not going to change that basic make up.





NobodySpecial said:


> No doubt. How that understanding is achieved is what might be useful to married men.


I think the point is simply that many (most?) women are unaware that this is the way many (most?) men work. There's a current thread where a guy's 69 year old wife just figured it out. It seems many (most?) women think that sex for men is just about physical release. It just seems like understanding this would be useful to women in relationships.

We're not saying the the woman is under any obligation to *DO *anything with the information. 

I mean, it's bound to make a difference if a woman thinks her husband wants to have sex with her because he's horny and she's the most convenient "hole" or if he wants to be more emotionally attached (not to say that he doesn't also enjoy the sex for it's own sake).

It seems like this understanding should be achieved via Basic Relationships 101 (with the usual caveats that it doesn't apply to all men).


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Buddy was not saying that he or other men expect their wives to always put others first. He was talking about how girls and women, generally speaking, are groomed to be care takers. This is natural but it also sets up women to ignore their own needs and defer to others needs ahead of theirs. It is not always a problem for women, but it can be and it used to be a much bigger problem.
> 
> So he was saying in light of the fact that some women now understand they do not want to defer to the needs of others, they sometimes push hard against any thoughts of doing anything “for a guy”. So in some women that could mean they are strongly against things like NSA BJ’s.
> 
> ...


Wow! You're getting GOOD at this.

That's exactly what I was saying.

And for you to understand while at the same time disagreeing is remarkable!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Middle of Everything said:


> Not sure if Im reading both posts wrong here but I think you misinterpreted Buddy's post.
> I think he was simply saying in his opinion the listed bullet points were notions that could work against coules sex lives.
> 
> Or Im wrong and you got that or m wrong and Buddy was saying something else entirely. Going to get more coffee.





Faithful Wife said:


> Buddy was saying that the items he bullet pointed are current memes in our minds, and some of them contradict things that were being discussed on previous posts.
> .....


it seems as if you both understand me.

I'll have to go back and see how that happened


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> I think the point is simply that many (most?) women are unaware that this is the way many (most?) men work. There's a current thread where a guy's 69 year old wife just figured it out. It seems many (most?) women think that sex for men is just about physical release. It just seems like understanding this would be useful to women in relationships.
> 
> We're not saying the the woman is under any obligation to *DO *anything with the information.
> 
> ...


You are much nicer than I am. I think most women DO know this. They just don't like it, and since THEY don't get it, they dismiss it.

I confess that being in a sexless marriage with someone who thought if it wasn't important to them it shouldn't be important to me colors my view. That and hearing way too many whiny shrews who seems shocked their husband expected sex when he got married.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> That is what i read as well. And I'll be honest, the last one gave me pause.
> 
> Bottom line, taking care of every other person in your life to the detriment of yourself ISN'T healthy, and I wouldn't be married to a man who expected that. Ever


I've been seeing a lot of this lately ("women need to say 'no' more often")...

The meme that women are _trained_ by society to please others, especially men (ie, Rita Wilson, ; Crissy Teagan (sp?) "women should say '**** You' more often").

And I've seen it a lot in the past (ie "women are taught that it's their responsibility to make everyone else happy"; "women feel compelled to have sex with men because they are taught that their own needs are unimportant").

I'll guess that 1/2 of women are like this and the other half are not, and it has nothing to do with "training" anymore than men have been trained by things like "Happy Wife, Happy Life" to place their wife's needs ahead of their own. There are givers and takers in roughly equal numbers among both genders.

I asked my wife how many women she knew who put their husband's happiness ahead of their own. 

Her answer was "None".


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I wish we could get to the place where we didn't even need to think in terms of either/or. I make my husband the priority, but I do not "harm" my own well being for him. He is the same way. I am his priority, but he doesn't throw himself under the bus for me. And I wouldn't want him to.

I know in our society of hierarchy we are ingrained to believe somebody has to be "first," the "winner," and "on top." But it is possible to make your spouse's needs a priority without ignoring yourself, and it is possible to care for yourself without neglecting your spouse.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> "Happy Wife, Happy Life"


If there was ever a saying that needed to die....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> If there was ever a saying that needed to die....


Spank the wife, happy life?>


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Spank the wife, happy life?>


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> I wish we could get to the place where we didn't even need to think in terms of either/or. I make my husband the priority, but I do not "harm" my own well being for him. He is the same way. I am his priority, but he doesn't throw himself under the bus for me. And I wouldn't want him to.
> 
> I know in our society of hierarchy we are ingrained to believe somebody has to be "first," the "winner," and "on top." But it is possible to make your spouse's needs a priority without ignoring yourself, and it is possible to care for yourself without neglecting your spouse.


Hey, even when she's on top, I'm still a winner! >

Seriously though, this is a great post. I have yet to see a situation where there was some immense gulf between what is best for her and what is best for me. We can, and do, do both.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> I think the point is simply that many (most?) women are unaware that this is the way many (most?) men work. There's a current thread where a guy's 69 year old wife just figured it out. It seems many (most?) women think that sex for men is just about physical release. It just seems like understanding this would be useful to women in relationships.


For ME, there was definitely no way to see this is how many/most men worked. My whole life had been one attempt to get in my pants, completely disconnected from anything else, after another.

Took some time for me to get it.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> For ME, there was definitely no way to see this is how many/most men worked. My whole life had been one attempt to get in my pants, completely disconnected from anything else, after another.
> 
> Took some time for me to get it.


My wife also didn't believe it (although this had nothing to do with our sex life).

She figured that if men always wanted sex with anything that moved (an exaggeration, but still......) how could sex be a way to become emotionally attached?

So, since it's counter intuitive, it's important to spread the word. I see it from plenty of women in relationship counselling, but it doesn't seem to have much traction in the mainstream media.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> > For ME, there was definitely no way to see this is how many/most men worked. My whole life had been one attempt to get in my pants, completely disconnected from anything else, after another.
> ...


The thing is, most women are wanted for sex by dozens if not hundreds of men in their lifetime, none of whom actually care about her in the least. We become aware of this pretty fast.

Then one man falls in love with us and now HE also wants an emotional connection with us as well as sex. This guy is now the exception, not the norm.

Which does not mean men don’t make an emotional connection through sex. It just means that until he’s falling in love, he’s the same as most men (in her experience).

So really, the understanding can only come that when a man is falling for you, THEN he wants sex for more than a release.

There’s a way to understand this while also understanding that for the most part, a man wanting to have sex with you means absolutely nothing emotionally to or about her.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Buddy400 said:


> My wife also didn't believe it (although this had nothing to do with our sex life).
> 
> She figured that if men always wanted sex with anything that moved (an exaggeration, but still......) how could sex be a way to become emotionally attached?
> 
> So, since it's counter intuitive, it's important to spread the word. I see it from plenty of women in relationship counselling, but it doesn't seem to have much traction in the mainstream media.


It's amazon how pervasive this is. 

My wife has accused me of only wanting her for her V, and told our counselor exactly that.

.... even though

1. If I only wanted a V, why did I wait until I met her to ever enter one? I sure as hell had plenty of offers before she came along.
2. If I was only interested in her V, why did I stick with her when she went big time LD on me? Many other Vs out there, most of which would be more available, and yes, other offers were coming during that time. I never once wavered even slightly in my commitment to her, despite the deprivation. 

Now to be fair, she did grow up seeing men use her mother, and her one LTR prior to me was abusive, including sexually, so she did have some rel life conditioning to go with the societally promoted stereotypes. 

But after thirty years of faithful exclusivity covering all manner of ups and downs, you'd think this programming would be erased or at least made a little less prominent. It boggles this male's mind.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> The thing is, most women are wanted for sex by dozens if not hundreds of men in their lifetime, none of whom actually care about her in the least. We become aware of this pretty fast.
> 
> Then one man falls in love with us and now HE also wants an emotional connection with us as well as sex. This guy is now the exception, not the norm.
> 
> Which does not mean men don’t make an emotional connection through sex. It just means that until he’s falling in love, he’s the same as most men (in her experience).


The thing that remains a mystery to me is that it seems that this emotional connection through sex can be achieved regardless of how I feel about it.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

NobodySpecial said:


> The thing that remains a mystery to me is that it seems that this emotional connection through sex can be achieved regardless of how I feel about it.


I'm not sure I follow. 

If my wife isn't feeling good about it, we're not going to achieve the emotional connection. If the guy is feeling all better just because his gal had sex with him but wasn't also emotional invested, then he's not actually getting an "emotional connection," but rather just getting off and enjoying the happy chemicals that come with that. That's not the same thing as establishing/maintaining an emotional connection. I suppose there are guys who delude themselves into believing this, but I'd bet most just honestly don't care and are happy to take what they can get. Not the same thing.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> *The thing is, most women are wanted for sex by dozens if not hundreds of men in their lifetime, none of whom actually care about her in the least. We become aware of this pretty fast.*
> 
> Then one man falls in love with us and now HE also wants an emotional connection with us as well as sex. This guy is now the exception, not the norm.
> 
> ...


And this is true.

I've seen a dozen women today that are suggestively dressed, and fleeting thoughts zip in/out. But none to take root. And this is common for most men.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > *The thing is, most women are wanted for sex by dozens if not hundreds of men in their lifetime, none of whom actually care about her in the least. We become aware of this pretty fast.*
> ...


Wow, you don’t have those thoughts unless women are suggestively dressed?

I can be wearing a bag and still be quite aware of men around me having such thoughts. The ones who make a lot of noise about it or otherwise deliberately make it obvious to us out number those of you who keep it under wraps like, ten times over.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow, you don’t have those thoughts unless women are suggestively dressed?
> 
> I can be wearing a bag and still be quite aware of men around me having such thoughts. The ones who make a lot of noise about it or otherwise deliberately make it obvious to us out number those of you who keep it under wraps like, ten times over.


Well, that's true 😎😎

It's most women of a certain shape, kind of regardless of the clothes. 

By suggestive I'm meaning tight clothes or the paper thin leggings and tank top, not skimpy dress. Although that would work.

Or, the right woman in a "bag" 😍😍😍 still generates the momentary interest. But always just a flitting thought, but there nonetheless. 

Only saying this as a man in general.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It's *amazon* how pervasive this is.
> 
> My wife has accused me of only wanting her for her V, and told our counselor exactly that.
> 
> ...


Jeff Bezos strikes again.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, you don’t have those thoughts unless women are suggestively dressed?
> ...


I get it, and I love how men are.

But I’m also quite aware that how men are is not personal to me, unless it is a man who loves me or is falling in love.

The rest of the time, if my form makes a random guy warm, it is simple biology and doesn’t “mean anything”.

The thing that is hard for some women to understand is that a man who loves her does feel different (even though he wants her for sex he also wants to emotionally bond with her). And since most women only have men falling in love with them once in awhile versus the hundreds of randos who “want her”, it can be hard for a woman to understand that men do change when they are in love (or have deep feelings for her).


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> I get it, and I love how men are.
> 
> But I’m also quite aware that how men are is not personal to me, unless it is a man who loves me or is falling in love.
> 
> ...


I don't think of myself as a stereotypical man, I certainly spend time with many of the species. So while I'm not like that myself (that I "want" any reasonably attractive woman), overall, that seems like a remarkably insightful, and understanding post. I believe you have very concisely and effectively articulated an otherwise very difficult concept for most to understand.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It’s also kind of confusing for me when men tell me I’ve “made them hot” or made other men hot, they think I should feel flattered.

I don’t mean my partners. I mean male friends and randos and other guys who are for whatever reason talking to me (hitting on me maybe or just talking).

I had a guy tell me one time that I’ve caused more boners in random guys than I will ever know. Um...even though I do understand how men are, the thought of this is gross to me, not cool or “hot”. The guy was puzzled when I said something like “ew”. He asked doesn’t that make me feel flattered? I said no, it has nothing to do with ME, and it applies to nearly every other woman on earth so, why would I be flattered? For each of the however many randos I’ve given a boner to, he has had a rando boner for thousands of other women, too. Who cares? It’s just a biological response. I’m not special to him and his boner is in no way special to me.

In other discussions like this one, I’ve heard men express that they feel confused by women’s indifference to our effect on randos. They expressed that they would love it if they could feel and see around them the heavy locked on eyes of someone who is eye ****ing you. That they wished they could know what this feels like.

Intellectually, I can understand that it would be a different world to me if I did not feel that energy coming from randos, and that I have the privilege of at least knowing I’m sexually desirable (to randos). And that the men were expressing to me a feeling they have inside, a wish to feel so strongly desired, to at least know what it would feel like.

I’ve taken this into consideration, and as I said in a previous post, have been very open about expressing my desire and outright lust for men I’m in a relationship with. I want to do this, because men don’t usually get to have this feeling of being constantly desired, and my man deserves to feel wanted like that.

I do think women will continue to come along in this regard. We first will have to keep coming out of the closet with our objectifying men, watching porn, taking in the visual delights of a mans curves, making the connection stronger (individually and en masse) between the visual and arousal. It has not been something women are encouraged to do, to openly visually or verbally or however lust after men. We also know we better be ready to take on this mans attention if we treat him that way, whereas most men know they can look lustfully on the sly at a rando woman and not worry that she will want to come talk to him if she catches him doing it (though that does sometimes happen anyway). 

So it’s not really a thing women practice doing. Still, we are on the whole getting better at it.

I think if men knew what the actual lustful thoughts of women everywhere were, they would be a bit flattered or feel women are noticing them in that way. And if we had all been brought up in a society where sex was safe and consensual most of the time, I’m sure we would have a group of super chill people who lust after each other both in a polite way and a direct way.

I want men to feel wanted, and women to feel wanted but not unsafe. Not going to get into all of that, but I’m just pointing to a utopian view of it I have. Where everyone is sexy and cat calls each other but no one feels afraid.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

and that's the thing. It without a doubt changes when a man falls for "a" woman, that's become very special to him, where he may continue, and fall in love.

The fact that he now gets emotionally connected to a particular woman means she starts completing his desire to "feel close" to a "mate".

That male desire to feel close to a woman is to a high percentage met through sex. Not all, but most of that emotion is transmitted through touching and sexual relations.

Most men never feel like more like protecting and caring for a woman than just after a good sexual romp. 

Call it sexist, but it is what it is.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Most men never feel like more like protecting and caring for a woman than just after a good sexual romp.


Add listening to that list as well. 

this may sound awful, but when sex is frequent and good, I'm happy to listen to whatever my wife wants to talk about for as long as she's got the lungs to ramble on.

If it's been a very long time or lackadaisical, unenthusiastic/unsatisfying sex, then I really don't want to hear it. 

funny how I'm expected to pay the type of attention she craves any time, at the drop of a hat, even when she hasn't paid the type of attention I crave in a month (speaking about the past here or many other relationships, not currently angry venting)


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Maybe I'm a simple man, but it's always worked for me;

It's no mystery women are hot, and approach with care and enthusiasm, tempered with passion, perception, imagination and appreciation. 

But don't be afraid to approach. Get it done.

😍😍😍


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> and that's the thing. It without a doubt changes when a man falls for "a" woman, that's become very special to him, where he may continue, and fall in love.
> 
> The fact that he now gets emotionally connected to a particular woman means she starts completing his desire to "feel close" to a "mate".
> 
> ...


I’m confused on the pre-emptive “call it sexist” bit. But anyway...

Yes most women do understand all of the above. We experience huge emotions through sex as well. 

But for the most part, we do not feel abject arousal for most men. 

So for us it can sometimes kind of feel like “ok you took the thing you apply openly to rando women (lust) and NOW you apply that same feeling to me but you also NOW feel love in there, too”.

Since we mostly cannot relate to having wanted to bone (or at least getting a girl boner from) nearly any healthy looking man, we also can’t relate to how this seems like a magical and somewhat suspicious change from “applies to all women and makes my weiner happy” to “no this is all about my feelings for you baby”.

The magical change isn’t quite as stark in women so it is harder for us to relate.

However, we are simply different in this way in general so I’ve done my best to intellectually understand it and apply it in ways that help me understand the men in my life.

I will never be able to feel it for myself however, because although I do feel warm for many forms I see out and about, I do know that I don’t feel it the way many men do. It is very selective to me and requires a lot more than a basic shape and a pulse. I don’t feel a zing in my nether parts unless the specimen is on a truly dazzling level of hotness. Otherwise, I simply don’t want to spend the energy in becoming aroused at every person who is even somewhat attractive. There’s too many of them.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> The thing is, most women are wanted for sex by dozens if not hundreds of men in their lifetime, none of whom actually care about her in the least. We become aware of this pretty fast.
> 
> Then one man falls in love with us *and now HE also wants an emotional connection with us as well as se*x. This guy is now the exception, not the norm.
> 
> ...





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> and that's the thing. It without a doubt changes when a man falls for "a" woman, that's become very special to him, where he may continue, and fall in love.
> 
> *The fact that he now gets emotionally connected to a particular woman means she starts completing his desire to "feel close" to a "mate".*
> 
> ...


Great comments. 

Something I read a while back in Schnarch's book intimacy and Desire was about pair bonding and the role that sex hormones and chemicals play in typical pair bonding. Yes they can be addictive, which is why it is very important to be selective with who you have sex with.

The other thing he commented on is that if a man does fall in love with a woman and marry her, he really does need to forsake all other women for his wife. That means to most men that the sex he has with his wife has to be very special and have a very special meaning. Otherwise why would it be better than sex with a neighbor, coworker or girl he meets at a bar. 

Entering a long term relationship for a man changes his perspective on sex with his partner. It will make it easier to be faithful if sex with his partner has much greater emotional meaning than sex with others. I feel that is one reason so many men say they are looking for emotional connection. They want the emotional/chemical bonding and they want it to be special and have deep meaning. They want to feel chosen, sexually desired, valued and cherished. 

At least that is my perspective.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Ragnar Ragnasson said:
> 
> 
> > Most men never feel like more like protecting and caring for a woman than just after a good sexual romp.
> ...


Ok don’t take this wrong...this is only a point for discussion.

But to me what you are describing kind of means you don’t actually care about what she wants to talk about. It sounds like you only listen enthusiastically if you are sexually fulfilled. But that is a moment of high bonding and empathy (and lasts a few days after sex), so similar to new relationship hormones, after sex hormones also make your partner seem more interesting to you.

I do get it that being unfulfilled can make people grumpy. And that suddenly makes everything they do annoying.

But that’s still kind of describing something on your part rather than hers. I mean, yeah go ahead and be grumpy and feel justified for it, but if you actually think this will bring you closer (including the inauthentic “listening to her” while you actually don’t want to), you are probably wrong.

On the other hand I would say to women or anyone LD this applies to, if you are going to be oblivious about how lack of sex is affecting your partner, you can expect some passive aggression such as “listening” to you but actually feeling annoyed by every word you say. Just because I don’t agree that it is healthy behavior, it’s still reality that the HD may lose interest in you and begin to really dislike you. (The healthy alternative would be for people to have better communication and boundaries).

ETA: Rocky, I used your example, but am not actually talking to “you” per se.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok don’t take this wrong...this is only a point for discussion.
> 
> But to me what you are describing kind of means you don’t actually care about what she wants to talk about. It sounds like you only listen enthusiastically if you are sexually fulfilled. But that is a moment of high bonding and empathy (and lasts a few days after sex), so similar to new relationship hormones, after sex hormones also make your partner seem more interesting to you.
> 
> ...


This is very good discussion. I think I might clarify a bit by adding that I always want to hear what she has to say; I know that having a good and patient listener is important to her, and I always want to be that for her. It's just that while I want to be there for her, I may not feel like it at that moment. That said, if I listen, I do so not begrudgingly. No matter how neglected I may feel, or how chemically out of balance I may be, I have the capability to, and put the effort into, setting all that aside and listening actively and with an open heart. When I listen, it is not "duty listening"; it is honest.

I know your post wasn't specifically directed at me, but I just wanted to point out that being a little cranky does not preclude being an active and supportive listener if the commitment and effort are there. 

I'm also not sure this is a very fair observation. Let's look at it in reverse. What if a man has ignored his wife emotionally for a month or more, not listening, not being romantic, not showing appreciation, etc--do we then call the wife unhealthy for not wanting to have sex with him or only having duty sex? Generally, now; we tell the man to get with the program.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Ok don’t take this wrong...this is only a point for discussion.
> ...


No, but I may call her unhealthy if she is accepting a certain type of treatment from him and is not strong or authentic enough to either advocate for change or leave him if he isn’t going to change.

So she’s still unhealthy if this is an ongoing, unchecked issue.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> That's simplistic in my view. Getting married does not automatically engender trust. In the early days, DH made a bit of a muddle of this communication in that he was SOOOOO focused on himself and his needs, that I started to feel like a blow up doll. I am eternally grateful that he learned about my feelings at that time. The mantra on here that if she just f'ed him, all would be ok feels so wrong to me since there is another person on the other side of that. It took some solid whacks to the head for DH to "get it" with me. It is not hard to imagine that that is not always the case.




I think a lot (most?) men on here wished they were like blow up dolls for their wives’ sexual pleasures....
Grass is greener on the other side and all is relative etc.

Also there are women out there who don’t want to be put on a pedestal, sexually or be the centre of attention. They want to be desired in the rawest possible sense, ‘used’ for the husband’s pleasure and sometimes just left alone lying there afterwards, squirming...The more selfish and dominating, the better, apparently. It was a completely alien concept for me at first but you get used to it with some practice and mental preparation....


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> This. Exactly this. I have never been sexually desired. At least, I have never detected this in any partner. Maybe I am just oblivious. But I doubt it.




Do you (or anyone else) remember the time, early on in your relationships when you didn’t care one iota whether your partner desired you or initiated with you at all, because your own desire for your partner was so overwhelming that you focused all your attention and energy into seducing your partner and fear of rejection just wasn’t at the forefront of your mind?
You know, this kind of urgent feeling stops after a while unfortunately for a lot of men. Instead, the focus becomes primarily on ‘why is my partner not initiating anymore? Why is my partner not doing x, y, z acts for me?’ Etc
Willingness to participate or ‘let yourself go with the flow’ also changes for some women too, I’m sure. It takes continuous work and bit of effort to keep the two sides in some kind of a balance. Sometimes even a tiny tweak is enough to just stop obsessing about it...

I’m not saying it applies to you or other guys here ‘cos I know your situation is complex and pretty unique.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> I think a lot (most?) men on here wished they were like blow up dolls for their wives’ sexual pleasures....
> Grass is greener on the other side and all is relative etc.
> 
> Also there are women out there who don’t want to be put on a pedestal, sexually or be the centre of attention. They want to be desired in the rawest possible sense, ‘used’ for the husband’s pleasure and sometimes just left alone lying there afterwards, squirming...The more selfish and dominating, the better, apparently. It was a completely alien concept for me at first but you get used to it with some practice and mental preparation....
> ...


I disagree with the first paragraph, at least as a blanket statement. I'm sure we'd dig that once in a while, but few of us would appreciate that being the norm.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> As absolutely spot on true as this all is, I have to concede that this also works both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, having more sex is still better than not having any sex in my book...Sometimes it’s good to stop and count one’s blessings, before going for the second round  Five Mississippis usually does it for me 

Making someone want something is always going to be more difficult than asking someone to do something.

And of course, making yourself ask for something is often going to be more difficult than just hoping it will somehow happen...



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I don't think of myself as a stereotypical man, I certainly spend time with many of the species. So while I'm not like that myself (that I "want" any reasonably attractive woman), overall, that seems like a remarkably insightful, and understanding post. I believe you have very concisely and effectively articulated an otherwise very difficult concept for most to understand.




How does one explain the phenomena when it is clear to the woman that the man has fallen in love with her, yet she still feels he’s trying to use her as a walking hole? (As seems to be the case in many well established marriages, given the many posts about the same issue).




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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> How does one explain the phenomena when it is clear to the woman that the man has fallen in love with her, yet she still feels he’s trying to use her as a walking hole? (As seems to be the case in many well established marriages, given the many posts about the same issue).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dont.
That was my point in an earlier post. I dont get it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Ok don’t take this wrong...this is only a point for discussion.
> ...


 Exactly. It is basically no different than a woman who says she feels more like having sex with her husband when he is kind to her, talks with her, and helps around the house. When our needs are being met, we are more apt to meet others needs.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Also isn’t the solution (for the problem of a bunch of randos getting boners for women they don’t know or care about) quite obvious? 

For women (who are more likely to get hurt from sex with people who don’t care about them in other ways) not to have sex with partners until they can be reasonably sure that they love each other or at least are in some sort of committed relationship? I’m pretty sure that’s what most experienced women do anyway, intuitively or via experience. That’s something I need to instil into my daughter somehow anyway...

This seems more realistic than to try and change the nature of some of these men which can’t be changed (I should also say that I don’t think this is the majority of men, at least not in my circles, and if they honestly think that them getting a boner is some kind of a compliment to a woman who doesn’t know them, then it says more about their brains, or lack thereof, than anything else. When the blood flow leaves the brain etc....).

I am not sure how this relates to women in established marriages though. It somehow is all the other way around quite frequently: (inexperienced/young) women tend to be more ‘trusting’ to strange/pushy randos with their ‘flattering’ erections, while women in long term marriages who reject their husbands frequently due to the ‘I’m not a walking hole for you’ syndrom, are suddenly more sceptical or their husbands’ true intentions...



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I disagree with the first paragraph, at least as a blanket statement. I'm sure we'd dig that once in a while, but few of us would appreciate that being the norm.




I should have inserted the word ‘sometimes’...

Wasn’t it you who wrote somewhere that you wished exactly that? I may be mixing it up but I thought I read that you said to your wife that any time she would like to use your body for her pleasure, you would be more than happy to oblige. It was odd to read that for me because I would imagine that if I said that to my wife, she would find it more on the insulting, rather than flattering side*. Whereas I can see how for a guy, this would be the opposite if the woman offered it to him. A bit like ‘why is my boner not flattering to you?’  (obviously not the same context, since you know each other well! But different perceptions of what might be flattering to each other).

Sorry if I mixed you up with another poster.

*even though that’s exactly what she wants from me sometimes, but never says it directly, but it’s a whole other topic...(disconnect of what she says vs what she wants me to do) 


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> I should have inserted the word ‘sometimes’...
> 
> Wasn’t it you who wrote somewhere that you wished exactly that? I may be mixing it up but I thought I read that you said to your wife that any time she would like to use your body for her pleasure, you would be more than happy to oblige. It was odd to read that for me because I would imagine that if I said that to my wife, she would find it more on the insulting side, rather than flattering side. Whereas I can see how for a guy, this would be the opposite of the woman offered it to him. A bit like ‘why is my boner not flattering to you?’
> 
> ...


I dont recall for sure, but I may well have said something like that. 

But with that caveat ... "sometimes."

All things in balance.

In the interest of further clarification though, I wouldn't think of it a "my boner being attractive to you," but rather the appreciation that my wife is a sexual being and as such. May just wat to get randy once in a while - and rather than thinking shes thinking I've got an irresistible boner, I'm just pleased and fortunate that I'm the one she chooses to share that aspect of herself with.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Has anyone not even thought about it?

This is a really good discussion but I don't have a frame of reference.

Has anyone never worried if they were desired sexually or never thought about what makes them feel desired sexually?


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

I have worried that I wasn't desired when h stopped initiating-and didn't seem too interested when I did


I think the thing that normally makes me desirable is when I'm happy and having fun, dressed well, and open to having sex later


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Has anyone not even thought about it?
> 
> This is a really good discussion but I don't have a frame of reference.
> 
> Has anyone never worried if they were desired sexually or never thought about what makes them feel desired sexually?


I think a lot of people don’t know that their spouse desires them.

Either because they actually don’t, or because their spouse cannot communicate their desire for some reason.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think a lot of people don’t know that their spouse desires them.
> 
> Either because they actually don’t, or because their spouse cannot communicate their desire for some reason.


I'm not sure if I should be embarrassed but I've never really thought about it.

I'm pretty sure I'm arrogant or confident in regards to being desired sexually or maybe I just don't consider it a priority?

I was stumped with this one.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I think a lot of people don’t know that their spouse desires them.
> ...


But haven’t you absorbed the stories of other people who are HD but love someone who is LD?

ETA: although I know I wouldn’t accept less than a very openly sexual and passionate relationship... I also know that if my past was different, I may also not prioritize my sexual energy.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> My wife also didn't believe it (although this had nothing to do with our sex life).
> 
> She figured that if men always wanted sex with anything that moved (an exaggeration, but still......) how could sex be a way to become emotionally attached?



It is not a conversation that DH and I have had to have in decades. But I do feel I see it on here fairly often. I still can't say I understand how engaging in an activity that one partner expressly avoids and rejects engenders connection. But I suspect that is something I will never understand.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think a lot of people don’t know that their spouse desires them.
> 
> Either *because they actually don’t*, or because their spouse cannot communicate their desire for some reason.


I have often wondered how this kind of revelation would go down. There was a little bit in another thread about how isn't it best to not mention things that would hurt your spouse? Protect them from bad feelings? How raw would that hurt be? I want to be desired by you? I want for us to feel this crazy lusty chemistry together! Sorry, dear, I just don't feel like that with you. I love you. I love the family we are building together. But you just don't set a fire in my panties. YOUUUUCH! Of course, if she did feel that way, dollars gets you donuts, that all she would really feel is guilty that she didn't feel that way.

Sometimes there is no clear win.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have often wondered how this kind of revelation would go down. There was a little bit in another thread about how isn't it best to not mention things that would hurt your spouse? Protect them from bad feelings? How raw would that hurt be? I want to be desired by you? I want for us to feel this crazy lusty chemistry together! Sorry, dear, I just don't feel like that with you. I love you. I love the family we are building together. But you just don't set a fire in my panties. YOUUUUCH! Of course, if she did feel that way, dollars gets you donuts, that all she would really feel is guilty that she didn't feel that way.
> 
> Sometimes there is no clear win.


There was a long story I followed a few years back on another board.

An HD man and LD Wife. They had been married since right after college. She never expressed desire and rarely wanted sex. They worked together on this for a number of years, had counseling, sex therapy, etc. There were improvements here and there but it was never what he wanted. After years of struggle with the decision he finally asked for a D. She agreed. They had been married going on 20 years.

In the process of splitting up, at some point she mentioned, as if it was no big deal and should have somehow been a comfort to him, “I’m sorry, I’m just not attracted to you like that”.

So all those years of “trying”, what she was having to “try” was to pretend to actually want to have sex with him.

He was of course bewildered and hurt by what he viewed as her cruelty in not just stating this fact years ago during any of the many opportunities she had to say it. But she of course would have known he would leave her, so she “tried” to be into him instead of just being honest. She knew honesty would get her a divorce, so she “tried” instead of doing what would be more difficult.

There was a happy ending though...a couple years out, he met a wonderful, very sexual woman who is totally into him and they lived happily ever after.

So now he knows the difference. He knows what it feels like to be actually desired and wanted. He knows now that what he accepted from his first wife, he should have never accepted. He feared all those years that she wasn’t sexually into him, but she would say words and “try”, so he accepted her trying and tried himself to settle his fears that she was only doing this so he wouldn’t leave her. But in his heart and body, he always knew there was no desire for him from her. He also didn’t want to push past her lies, because the divorce did suck, just like they both feared it would. 

These two tied themselves to each other out of fear and obligation. I don’t think they were even actually in love, they just both acted as if, and hoped the real thing would happen. For so many years, this man agonized over how his wife did not seem to want to have sex with him and what he was going to do about it. Now he can stand back and realize that doing that, accepting something less than what he wanted, was on him. He didn’t love himself enough yet to push past the difficulties to find what he deserves and needs in a partner. So until he was willing to do that, it was the penance he paid to be stuck with a woman who did not desire him.

He knows now and would never go back to the level of self loathing he was in when he was begging for scraps from a woman who wasn’t into him. He now knows that wonderful worthy women are out there and there is no reason to settle or beg for scraps ever again. He realized that “fighting” to keep his marriage in tact (by trying to improve the sex life) was actually the wrong thing to do. He should have just bailed when he was young. But thankfully he is still young enough to enjoy his new happy wife and life.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@uhtred, ^^^^ what if...


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have often wondered how this kind of revelation would go down. There was a little bit in another thread about how isn't it best to not mention things that would hurt your spouse? Protect them from bad feelings? How raw would that hurt be? I want to be desired by you? I want for us to feel this crazy lusty chemistry together! Sorry, dear, I just don't feel like that with you. I love you. I love the family we are building together. But you just don't set a fire in my panties. YOUUUUCH! Of course, if she did feel that way, dollars gets you donuts, that all she would really feel is guilty that she didn't feel that way.
> 
> Sometimes there is no clear win.


I can tell you how it feels...at least for me. It’s devastating in a way I didn’t know existed. My husband is gay. Never told me. So I live with the knowledge that our entire intimate relationship was a lie. The conception of my children was a lie. I caught him trolling for anonymous hookups online. He says he never folllwed through but I don’t believe that and honestly, to me, it doesn’t matter. I know some spouses who deal with this focus on the infidelity but to me, that’s incidental. He broke his vows...I don’t care, because to me what matters is that my entire marriage was a lie. He had no business making those vows in the first place. Every time we had sex he had to force himself. I feel dirty, used, and that no man will ever want me. 

Does he love me? Yes. I do know that. But he has no idea of the damage he’s done to me. I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to trust another man enough to be intimate. He crushed my soul and it may never recover.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Personal said:


> @uhtred, ^^^^ what if...


No time machines. In any case my situation is different because I'm pretty convinced my wife isn't sexually attracted to anyone.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> she mentioned, as if it was no big deal and should have somehow been a comfort to him, “I’m sorry, I’m just not attracted to you like that”.


This is precisely what I said, which causes you to think I "hate women". This is the understanding I have acquired. To the women in my life my feelings, my desires, my needs, how I'm "wired"..... are "no big deal". Not compared to being comfortably supported emotionally and financially, having a white picket fence and 2.4 kids, living close to her extended family, like I said, all the IMPORTANT things.....



Faithful Wife said:


> the level of self loathing


It's hard to get out of it, particularly when you have a consistent experience.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

uhtred said:


> No time machines. In any case my situation is different because I'm pretty convinced my wife isn't sexually attracted to anyone.


I agree, I think your wife is asexual.

The wife in my story was not asexual but she was extremely LD. After they split, she didn’t date or find new sex partners, she just wasn’t interested and will likely never couple up again, or have sex. But this is largely because she is obese now and would not want to get naked in front of anyone. She’s also not going to lose the weight, so that’s her life now.

Meanwhile, he got in excellent shape as he pulled his 180 before asking for a D. At first he was trying to become more attractive in case that helped in their sex life, but he kept going as he realized it was not going to change anything with her but it was making him feel better and more confident.

Now he gets to rock his new bod with his new lady, who also has a rockin bod.

Not sure what his ex wife thinks, but she can’t help but see how happy and beautiful he and his new woman look together.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

notmyjamie said:


> I can tell you how it feels...at least for me. It’s devastating in a way I didn’t know existed. My husband is gay. Never told me. So I live with the knowledge that our entire intimate relationship was a lie. The conception of my children was a lie. I caught him trolling for anonymous hookups online. He says he never folllwed through but I don’t believe that and honestly, to me, it doesn’t matter. I know some spouses who deal with this focus on the infidelity but to me, that’s incidental. He broke his vows...I don’t care, because to me what matters is that my entire marriage was a lie. He had no business making those vows in the first place. Every time we had sex he had to force himself. I feel dirty, used, and that no man will ever want me.
> 
> Does he love me? Yes. I do know that. But he has no idea of the damage he’s done to me. I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to trust another man enough to be intimate. He crushed my soul and it may never recover.


Wow, I haven’t been following your story. Holy crap.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

TJW said:


> This is precisely what I said, which causes you to think I "hate women". This is the understanding I have acquired. To the women in my life my feelings, my desires, my needs, how I'm "wired"..... are "no big deal". Not compared to being comfortably supported emotionally and financially, having a white picket fence and 2.4 kids, living close to her extended family, like I said, all the IMPORTANT things.....
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard to get out of it, particularly when you have a consistent experience.


I’m sorry your life sucks. Wish I could offer any hope.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think the problem is that people naturally focus their attention on things that they can't have, on the problem areas. So if a man is interested in his wife in a large number of ways, and she responds to all of those *except* sex, it can easily seem that sex is the focus. Its difficult to recognize that people need a chain of things to feel loved, so the missing link seem like the important one - when its just the missing one.

If my wife and I were having frequency great sex, but she didn't have a job and didn't do any work around the house, it could easily seem that "all I cared about" was work. 



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It's amazon how pervasive this is.
> 
> My wife has accused me of only wanting her for her V, and told our counselor exactly that.
> 
> ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

uhtred said:


> No time machines. In any case my situation is different because I'm pretty convinced my wife isn't sexually attracted to anyone.



There’s only one way to find out...
To be honest, I don’t know if I’m sexually ideal partner for my wife either.
Maybe it doesn’t matter that much. We try to make the best of it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> In the interest of further clarification though, I wouldn't think of it a "my boner being attractive to you," but rather the appreciation that my wife is a sexual being and as such. May just wat to get randy once in a while - and rather than thinking shes thinking I've got an irresistible boner, I'm just pleased and fortunate that I'm the one she chooses to share that aspect of herself with.



I just meant that we (men) sometimes see these things from our frame of reference: our wives making us horny etc is meant to equal a massive compliment to them, in our eyes. 
I’m sure your wife is different but mine would think I’m just being lazy or ‘typically male’ and would pretend or perhaps really be offended a bit, I’m not sure. (I often can’t tell when she’s winding me up or really offended. She can be a bit of a tease).

I think it is unreasonable to expect the ‘panties on fire’ situation all the time with a long term partner. At least without putting some effort into it. But I don’t think it’s a bad thing. You get other things with a long term relationship that you don’t get enough n a new relationship.

That’s the glass half full thought. The other thought is that maybe neither men or women are hardwired to have a relationship to last indefinitely, otherwise there wouldn’t be all these obstacles to overcome that seem to be quite typical for many relationships. I dunno.
I think as long as things are within tolerable levels, it’s not all doom and gloom.

I think there’s a big difference between ‘my wife is not interested in me sexually whatsoever’ and ‘my wife is not putting a lot of effort into her sexual performance with me or initiating’. The latter is not really that much of a biggie.

I don’t expect women to initiate. But it’s nice when they do.



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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> I can see why some people may not think asking for sex is sexy. But for me it’s never been a big deal. If I’m in a relationship, we are going to be having sex a lot and how it’s initiated is irrelevant to me. My answer is always “yay, sex!”
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So I have a very high sex drive as well. And btw I am the one who said “yes yes yes all men should read this” on the original thread. 

There is no bigger turn off for me then asking. And I love this thread about desire... because effort shows desire. There is something sexy, and passionate, and vulnerable with reaching out to your partner with a sexual advance... and it feels amazing. I mean that’s why most men on here love it when their wives initiate or wish they did. It’s feeling WANTED. And when there is effort and vulnerability in that... I don’t know it’s amazing and makes me feel loved, desired, connected. 
When people string a few words together.... do you want to have sex? That seems easy, low risk, and cheap, and like your talking to a stranger. I don’t know how to explain it... when my ex husband use to ask me if I wanted to have sex... I didn’t feel sexy, I didn’t feel worth the effort, and I certainly didn’t FEEL desired. 

When I initiate... its always the best passionate sex. I initiate because I want him so bad and I have to have him and I’m willing to put my fear of rejection aside because my desire for him is greater. And therefore I want him to feel how much I want him therefore.... how I initiate reflects that.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

So this is really a side story but My boyfriend and I had sex last night... and today he was telling me that he was dead tired and almost refused me (I initiated)... but he didn’t and he was super into it and blah blah. BUT I just wrote above that I initiate because my desire for him over rides my fear of rejection. And one makes themselves super vulnerable when Initiating which is why that effort on the receiving end feels so good. So he said to me... what if I refused? And I know he is allowed to refuse, And I know this is insane to say but... the thought really pissed me off. The thought of being so hot for your significant other... and being super direct (physically), displaying how much you want them... to them saying not tonight babe is crushing. Yea I’m being dramatic, and yes men always get refused, but I’ve never experienced it before and it really gave me perspective. Especially when you have so many feelings of love and desire for the person and it’s all coming out and your super horny and you can’t wait to enjoy... wow the thought of that not being received well is really sad to me. So for all the men and women out there that get routinely denied... I am sorry, and I get why it’s hard to keep putting in effort.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> So I have a very high sex drive as well. And btw I am the one who said “yes yes yes all men should read this” on the original thread.
> 
> There is no bigger turn off for me then asking. And I love this thread about desire... because effort shows desire. There is something sexy, and passionate, and vulnerable with reaching out to your partner with a sexual advance... and it feels amazing. I mean that’s why most men on here love it when their wives initiate or wish they did. It’s feeling WANTED. And when there is effort and vulnerability in that... I don’t know it’s amazing and makes me feel loved, desired, connected.
> When people string a few words together.... do you want to have sex? That seems easy, low risk, and cheap, and like your talking to a stranger. I don’t know how to explain it... when my ex husband use to ask me if I wanted to have sex... I didn’t feel sexy, I didn’t feel worth the effort, and I certainly didn’t FEEL desired.
> ...


I can see how if every initiation was a “hey wanna do it?” and if there was never any more effort than that put into it, yes that would get old fast.

When I made my comments, talking about my own sex life, I included that in my relationships there is going to be sex happening a lot, but I did not mean the initiation would be blah every time.

I meant that since the norm for me would be lots of passionate other ways of seducing each other, making plans and efforts, and also just spontaneous romping because we just can’t help ourselves, then once in awhile “hey ya wanna” is not a big deal.

In a happy sexual relationship, I’m good with just about any way of initiating, but would not be ok if there was only one way happening. I also wouldn’t be with a man who I wasn’t very clear about his desire for me in numerous ways.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> There is no bigger turn off for me then asking.



I have heard women say this before many times...If asking (or, in its milder form, telling the guy what to do, sexually) is a massive turn off for women and men have huge hang ups about asking for sex (which is a pride thing) then there’s little wonder that you end up with a lot of sexually dysfunctional marriages.




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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Girl_power said:


> So I have a very high sex drive as well. And btw I am the one who said “yes yes yes all men should read this” on the original thread.
> 
> There is no bigger turn off for me then asking. And I love this thread about desire...* because effort shows desire. There is something sexy, and passionate, and vulnerable with reaching out to your partner with a sexual advance... and it feels amazing. I mean that’s why most men on here love it when their wives initiate or wish they did. It’s feeling WANTED. And when there is effort and vulnerability in that... I don’t know it’s amazing and makes me feel loved, desired, connected. *
> When people string a few words together.... do you want to have sex? That seems easy, low risk, and cheap, and like your talking to a stranger. I don’t know how to explain it... when my ex husband use to ask me if I wanted to have sex... I didn’t feel sexy, I didn’t feel worth the effort, and I certainly didn’t FEEL desired.
> ...


Very much the bolded.

On the whole asking thing, I am not too fond of it either, especially when my W knows my answer is always yes lol. Last night she asked me if I wanted to have sex either at that time or maybe in the morning. I just told her it was late so we should get some sleep. Funny enough, had she just initiated (she was willing to have sex) I would have been ready to go, but the asking thing is a bit of a boner killer lol. On top of that, offering the morning as an option, what that really means is it is now up to me (i.e. she is not going to wake up early enough before the kids wake up where I would be up). Just like that it went from a minimal effort by her to initiate to turning the table on me. I probably spent a good 10 minutes going back in forth in my head this morning before I decided to just go ahead and "wake" her up. So as much as things are much better now, there still is a little bit of a hole when it comes to feeling desired (and I imagine this is something an HD deals with more often when matched up with an LD).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Very much the bolded.
> 
> On the whole asking thing, I am not too fond of it either, especially when my W knows my answer is always yes lol. Last night she asked me if I wanted to have sex either at that time or maybe in the morning. I just told her it was late so we should get some sleep. Funny enough, had she just initiated (she was willing to have sex) I would have been ready to go, but the asking thing is a bit of a boner killer lol. On top of that, offering the morning as an option, what that really means is it is now up to me (i.e. she is not going to wake up early enough before the kids wake up where I would be up). Just like that it went from a minimal effort by her to initiate to turning the table on me. I probably spent a good 10 minutes going back in forth in my head this morning before I decided to just go ahead and "wake" her up. So as much as things are much better now, there still is a little bit of a hole when it comes to feeling desired (and I imagine this is something an HD deals with more often when matched up with an LD).


Ok this all makes sense. Your reaction to her blasé initiation makes sense, and also your struggle in the morning to let it go.

Can you have a tune up discussion with her and tell her hey babe, when you say “now or morning?” it just ends up with me feeling like you could take it or leave it. Then let her sort out how to fix that. It’s something you can express without much drama or blame. Just so she knows you feel that way.

There was a time when I had a lot to learn about initiating. That was a long time ago so I’m trying to remember what worked on me. But basically it was definitely my desire to have a fun sex life, so that helped. I think you and your wife are in a good place right now so she may be open to these things much easier than the past few years. I think she wants to please you and have a fun sex life with you.

So my ex h explained that my initiating as if I was offering him something that he should value more than I do, it was kinda insulting. Or if I suggested he somehow gained more from the encounter than I did. Or if I just laid there and expected him to ravage me, but didn’t say anything. He explained one at a time, over time, how these things were not good communication.

I picked it up as I tried to step outside myself and see how I’m coming across to him. When I did that, I could see how the attitude of “you want me right, so I guess I’m available “ is totally different than me saying “babe I want you, now or soon!” (or saying this by just going for it).

Anyway, just my thoughts that this one is possibly something that could be tweaked and made better.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ugh this thread depresses me... sigh...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> So as much as things are much better now, *there still is a little bit of a hole * when it comes to feeling desired



Cum again? 



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Very much the bolded.
> 
> On the whole asking thing, I am not too fond of it either, especially when my W knows my answer is always yes lol. Last night she asked me if I wanted to have sex either at that time or maybe in the morning. I just told her it was late so we should get some sleep. Funny enough, had she just initiated (she was willing to have sex) I would have been ready to go, but the asking thing is a bit of a boner killer lol. On top of that, offering the morning as an option, what that really means is it is now up to me (i.e. she is not going to wake up early enough before the kids wake up where I would be up). Just like that it went from a minimal effort by her to initiate to turning the table on me. I probably spent a good 10 minutes going back in forth in my head this morning before I decided to just go ahead and "wake" her up. So as much as things are much better now, there still is a little bit of a hole when it comes to feeling desired (and I imagine this is something an HD deals with more often when matched up with an LD).



I’m curious: what happens if you just have sex with her whenever you want to? Why do you need her to initiate, especially if you know it comes unnaturally for her?
Obviously without knowing full context of your situation, it sounds like you might have rejected her that evening.

If I want to have sex with wife, there’s very little that is going to stop me. And if there’s a scenario when she has to ask, then something is wrong in the dynamic...I think one has to be careful not to place the responsibility of whether you want sex with her or not, into her hands.
If you want to **** her and you **** her, will she stop you or will she embrace you? (On average). Isn’t the rest in one’s head? Why does it matter?



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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Girl Power
when my ex husband use to ask me if I wanted to have sex... I didn’t feel sexy, I didn’t feel worth the effort, and I certainly didn’t FEEL desired. ........................... what if I refused? And I know he is allowed to refuse, And I know this is insane to say but... the thought really pissed me off. *

As a person that rarely wants to impose on someone else (especially my W) and having heard that many women didn't like sex all that much, I was one of those men that would put out verbal clues that I was interested in having sex and wanted to make a stronger physical and emotional connection with my w, some times my approach bordered on being too reserved. 

My W usually acted to tired for sex at bedtime so I mostly didn't push for what I wanted. I see so many sex positive women on this forum but that is NOT what I encountered in my life. It is a lot more enjoyable to be around a sex positive woman than a W that that sees sexual activity as something she has to give and something the H gets. This sets up one of the reasons some men ask "are you tired" or "do you want to fool around."

My sex life is reaching its end but I learned that this bit about of "do you want to fool around" was a big mistake on my part. OTH maybe being more action oriented might have gone either way.

* In my Prime
If asking (or, in its milder form, telling the guy what to do, sexually) is a massive turn off for women and men have huge hang ups about asking for sex (which is a pride thing) then there’s little wonder that you end up with a lot of sexually dysfunctional marriages.*

I agree with this observation.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

What I also don’t understand: it has been a bit of a ‘tradition’ (and some countries like Japan, it still is) for men to have mistresses and pay for sex. But why would a man complain about wife’s lack of obvious initiations to have sex with him but then go and willingly pay for sex with a woman who he knows doesn’t really want to have sex with him?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

EllisRedding said:


> How do you perceive sexual desire (or to be desired)?


This is an interesting question.

I primarily feel desired by my husband through how I perceive him being 'into' me. 

This takes various forms; through touch, attentiveness, acceptance, protectiveness, and, surprisingly for me when considering this, but also his respect of me. It all combines to feel desired. A couple of recent lighthearted, nonsexual examples that come to mind (because the sexual examples are between us) is being at a comedy gig together. Given we're there to laugh and enjoy, this is going to sound silly, but I actually felt a little self-conscious at one point as I was laughing so hard. He whispered that he loves my laugh. And... oh mreow. Or when he helped me shop for a dress to wear to a friend's wedding. I came out of the fitting room to show him, and he didn't take his eyes off me. I felt like I was the only one there, even though I wasn't.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s also kind of confusing for me when men tell me I’ve “made them hot” or made other men hot, they think I should feel flattered.
> 
> I don’t mean my partners. I mean male friends and randos and other guys who are for whatever reason talking to me (hitting on me maybe or just talking).
> 
> I had a guy tell me one time that I’ve caused more boners in random guys than I will ever know. Um...even though I do understand how men are, the thought of this is gross to me, not cool or “hot”. The guy was puzzled when I said something like “ew”. He asked doesn’t that make me feel flattered? I said no, it has nothing to do with ME, and it applies to nearly every other woman on earth so, why would I be flattered? For each of the however many randos I’ve given a boner to, he has had a rando boner for thousands of other women, too. Who cares? It’s just a biological response. I’m not special to him and his boner is in no way special to me.


Work xmas drinks, no partners in attendance, a group of guys from another work place worked their way into ours. A very buzzed guy told me I had, 'the most beautiful eyes he'd ever seen'... my name was on written on the card for our table reservation. He took this and placed it across his heart, then said he was keeping it, proceeded to place into his pocket. I asked how his wife would feel finding my name in his jeans pocket the next day. He hesitated, then removed my name and placed it back on the table. Smart move. When he left, I took my name off the table and ripped it up for good measure. Did I feel desired? No. I also didn't feel this was about me. I felt this was a drunk random, who ought to save the compliments for his wife rather than some random (me) at a bar.

I know this wasn't the entire meaning of your post but the first part had me reflecting on that moment.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Handy said:


> * Girl Power
> when my ex husband use to ask me if I wanted to have sex... I didn’t feel sexy, I didn’t feel worth the effort, and I certainly didn’t FEEL desired. ........................... what if I refused? And I know he is allowed to refuse, And I know this is insane to say but... the thought really pissed me off. *
> 
> As a person that rarely wants to impose on someone else (especially my W) and having heard that many women didn't like sex all that much, I was one of those men that would put out verbal clues that I was interested in having sex and wanted to make a stronger physical and emotional connection with my w, some times my approach bordered on being too reserved.
> ...




I totally understand why men ask. And maybe my sexual dynamic will change as I age. 

There are times when Im with my boyfriend or friends and we look at a middle aged or older couple and we have a conversation of basically negative things we see in seasoned relationships and we talk about how... oh I never want to be the couple that...xyz. For example we often say we never want to be that couple that goes out for date night once a week and it lasts and hour and they don’t talk to each other the entire time. 
I’m sure the majority of this is natural and we will all end up like this but my point is that it’s easy for me to say what I do and don’t want things in my relationship to be like. I know I’m ignorant and young-ish. So I dont mean any disrespect. I actually really really respect that seasoned couple that has been though a war and survived. 
I think I like to observe couples and be aware of what I want and don’t want and hopes of talking about it with my partner maybe we can shape the relationship, and be more present and aware of what we are doing.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

On a side note since I am reflecting...

I love reading these forums because I see Common themes... and I think we can all learn from them especially in the beginning stages of our relationships. 
So a common thing I pick up is that.... as your relationship becomes more seasoned.... women seem tired BUT want more passionate from their lives and spouse. Men want more sex, but have been damaged from the negative response their wife gives them when they reach out for sex. Men seem to need to be desired and want their women to show them that they want them sexually. 

I know I am young-ish and life hasn’t beaten me up yet. I am spoiled, and ignorant. I don’t know what it’s like to have kids, and be sleep deprived, and see my parents decline in health. I don’t know what it’s like to have a mortgage, or money problems. And I know that one day I will... and life will beat me up just like it beats everyone up. And I just want to say how I love reading this forum from more experienced people and seasoned couples and I learn a lot from it. What I want and what I don’t want. What’s inevitable, what to expect is normal. Etc...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Happy Easter!

Mrs. C borrowed my cowboy hat, and wore a couple of strategically placed ❤ pasties while treating me like a horse she was trying to break.

She succeeded.

She probably is the main reason why I've never thought about this subject.

I originally thought it might be something internal and, to some extent, I still do.

I feel sexual and desirable internally. If, however, Mrs. C treated me differently for years, I might have more self doubt.

Not too much though because I'm a sexy Beasty and I know it! :wink2:>>


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Happy Easter!
> 
> Mrs. C borrowed my cowboy hat, and wore a couple of strategically placed ❤ pasties while treating me like a horse she was trying to break.
> 
> ...


Don’t forget modest!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Very much the bolded.
> 
> On the whole asking thing, I am not too fond of it either, especially when my W knows my answer is always yes lol. Last night she asked me if I wanted to have sex either at that time or maybe in the morning. I just told her it was late so we should get some sleep. Funny enough, had she just initiated (she was willing to have sex) I would have been ready to go, but the asking thing is a bit of a boner killer lol. On top of that, offering the morning as an option, what that really means is it is now up to me (i.e. she is not going to wake up early enough before the kids wake up where I would be up). Just like that it went from a minimal effort by her to initiate to turning the table on me. I probably spent a good 10 minutes going back in forth in my head this morning before I decided to just go ahead and "wake" her up. So as much as things are much better now, there still is a little bit of a hole when it comes to feeling desired (and I imagine this is something an HD deals with more often when matched up with an LD).


For future reference.
If your wife asks you do you want sex now or in the morning. 
Just say yes.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

*Notmyjamie
But he has no idea of the damage he’s done to me. I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to trust another man enough to be intimate. He crushed my soul and it may never recover.*

It isn't that you weren't desirable but your gay H and you were not compatible.

You will be desirable with the right compatible partner. When I read posts like yours, I want to reach out and show you that some man cares about you, in fact several. Finding/meeting that person does take work and time.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

InMyPrime said:


> I’m curious: what happens if you just have sex with her whenever you want to? Why do you need her to initiate, especially if you know it comes unnaturally for her?
> Obviously without knowing full context of your situation, it sounds like you might have rejected her that evening.
> 
> If I want to have sex with wife, there’s very little that is going to stop me. And if there’s a scenario when she has to ask, then something is wrong in the dynamic...I think one has to be careful not to place the responsibility of whether you want sex with her or not, into her hands.
> ...


In regards to me rejecting her I don't agree with that. It wasn't "lets have sex now and tomorrow morning", she was giving me the choice. Given that it was late (I knew she was tired) and literally 5 minutes before was dealing with a bloody nose, I figured that the morning would be a better fit.

It is also important to understand (based on your post about if you want sex, nothing is going to stop you), at that point at night I actually wasn't really looking for sex, i was perfectly content to just curl up and watch some TV (so it wasn't that I was ready to jump her). If she had started something right there, I would have eventually gotten in the mood which would have been perfectly fine. 

The reality is (for me), if she is not making an effort (at least what I perceive an effort), I eventually lose interest. This is the reason why prior to the beginning of this year we had sex maybe 10 times total in the previous 2+ years (i eventually got to the point where I had no interest and stopped trying). I get that it is easy to just say "well if you want sex just go get it", but as I said, for me if I don't feel some sense of being desired it can feel like I am more so going through the motions.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok this all makes sense. Your reaction to her blasé initiation makes sense, and also your struggle in the morning to let it go.
> 
> Can you have a tune up discussion with her and tell her hey babe, when you say “now or morning?” it just ends up with me feeling like you could take it or leave it. Then let her sort out how to fix that. It’s something you can express without much drama or blame. Just so she knows you feel that way.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think the bolded does a great job of explaining how it comes across. Similar to in the past when the issue of lack of sex comes up and her answer is "I am willing to have more sex" followed by nothing else, if gives off more of a "so I guess I'm available" type vibe.

It is interesting where it becomes a bit of a mental game. I am perfectly fine doing the bulk of the work when it comes to initiating. The dilemma is I know that her initiating (i.e. making an effort, showing some actual interest in sex or me) does make me feel desired (which I feed off of). However, the more I initiate the less she is going to initiate lol. So again Sunday morning I "woke" her up. In theory, we have met our quota for the week already (when we talked things out months ago we agreed that there should be no reason why we can't have sex twice a week). Odds are since we hit the weekly number, she can cross if off her list until next week.

I actually do plan on bringing this up to her again, more in the context of desire. As you mentioned, just find a way to do it where it doesn't come across as blame or drama. I don't really blame her at all, we are just wired different and for as much as we have talked about it, I don't think she quite understands or can relate to my POV (which I do get)


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Handy said:


> *Notmyjamie
> But he has no idea of the damage he’s done to me. I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to trust another man enough to be intimate. He crushed my soul and it may never recover.*
> 
> It isn't that you weren't desirable but your gay H and you were not compatible.
> ...


I know that in my head. I do. But how do I trust my judgement next time? I mean, I had NO ****ING CLUE...none at all. In hindsight, there were some things that seem obvious now but back then didn't seem like it was because of homosexuality. When we first got together he was nervous, had a little trouble our first time and I attributed it to the fact that he knew I was more experienced. I had ended a 2 1/2 year relationship just as we met. I had lived with that man. Once we got past that first time he was fine. Never super adventurous but very loving. And he always, always took good care of me...never left me hanging (unless I asked him to.) 

Also, now I'm 25 years older, I've had 3 kids...that takes a toll. I need to lose 25lbs thanks to some medical problems a couple years ago that caused me to gain weight. I'm trying but at 51 it just doesn't come off easily at all. I've lost 30 of the 55 I gained but I'm stalled out now. All of these things combined make me feel like there is no hope for me. 

Keeping this post somewhat on topic, I'd say that if you don't feel sexually desirable yourself, someone else will have a hard time making you feel that way. Thanks for reaching out, you're very sweet.


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## CountessJax (Jan 19, 2015)

There are a couple of relatively easy things to do to make me feel desired: first - compliment me (they don't have to constant or over effusive, but merely sincere); second - if you want sex at night, start revving up in the morning (flirty texts from the simple to the sexting variety will have me ready to rip your clothes off by the time I get home) 

oh, a third, kissing is a big deal for me as well.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> For future reference.
> If your wife asks you do you want sex now or in the morning.
> Just say yes.


Not really. When we have sex at night, she always has issues falling asleep right away. In the past where we have had the "night or morning" scenario and ended up having sex at night, she will always say how she is then excited b/c she can sleep in the next morning lol. I don't have an issue with this.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Yeah, I think the bolded does a great job of explaining how it comes across. Similar to in the past when the issue of lack of sex comes up and her answer is "I am willing to have more sex" followed by nothing else, if gives off more of a "so I guess I'm available" type vibe.


Ellis, I am wondering. Is it possible that she loves you and wants you to be HAPPY but that is the degree of desire she actually has? You tell her how you want to feel, and she tries to accomidate. But that falls short because you want something she doesn't actually FEEL? 

A thought. Not a happy one, but if you know, at least you can maybe come up with something that will work?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Ellis, I am wondering. Is it possible that she loves you and wants you to be HAPPY but that is the degree of desire she actually has? You tell her how you want to feel, and she tries to accomidate. But that falls short because you want something she doesn't actually FEEL?
> 
> A thought. Not a happy one, but if you know, at least you can maybe come up with something that will work?


Actually, I am ok with this. Kind of what I mentioned, I have come to terms that we are just hard wired differently. I am not expecting her to be a super ramped up hornball or anything of the sorts (she has never been that way). It is more about me understanding why I feel a lack of desire from her (when all indications are I shouldn't). Honestly, I don't mind doing most of the heavy lifting, just feel like a little more effort on her part to help maintain our sex life would go a long way for me (little things like to stop asking if I want to have sex and just start something. Maybe I should put the Nike logo over our bed, remind her to "Just Do It"  ). It is in her, but when at home it goes dormant lol. When we were on vacation, she was the one who decided we were going to have sex every morning (instead of waiting until nightime). Every morning like clockwork she was ready (I was always up hours before her doing work, so once she woke up she would give me the "what are you waiting for" look). That was cool. Just give me a little of that from time to time. Or even when she set the alarm a few months back on the weekend so she could wake up and start something. I don't need anything crazy or radical, but it can be draining when I feel like maintaining our sex life is 99% my job.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Actually, I am ok with this. Kind of what I mentioned, I have come to terms that we are just hard wired differently. I am not expecting her to be a super ramped up hornball or anything of the sorts (she has never been that way). It is more about me understanding why I feel a lack of desire from her (when all indications are I shouldn't). Honestly, I don't mind doing most of the heavy lifting, just feel like a little more effort on her part to help maintain our sex life would go a long way for me (little things like to stop asking if I want to have sex and just start something. Maybe I should put the Nike logo over our bed, remind her to "Just Do It"  ). It is in her, but when at home it goes dormant lol. When we were on vacation, she was the one who decided we were going to have sex every morning (instead of waiting until nightime). Every morning like clockwork she was ready (I was always up hours before her doing work, so once she woke up she would give me the "what are you waiting for" look). That was cool. Just give me a little of that from time to time. Or even when she set the alarm a few months back on the weekend so she could wake up and start something. I don't need anything crazy or radical, but it can be draining when I feel like maintaining our sex life is 99% my job.


I think I hear you. But I can tell you, if this were me, and you were telling me you want me to show desire and recognize that is not how I roll, I would be straight up confused. "Little things like" ... oft times what DH thinks are "like" other things are not the same as what I think. She seems amenable. WHat happens when you just tell her? I think you maybe said you are gonna have that convo. Good luck!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> *I think I hear you. But I can tell you, if this were me, and you were telling me you want me to show desire and recognize that is not how I roll, I would be straight up confused.* "Little things like" ... oft times what DH thinks are "like" other things are not the same as what I think. She seems amenable. WHat happens when you just tell her? I think you maybe said you are gonna have that convo. Good luck!


Per the bolded though, the difference is that is how she does roll at times, just depends on the circumstance (i.e I am not asking her to do things that she hasn't done before). My guess is she just doesn't quite understand how much I appreciate it when she does those things (which is part of why I want to have a convo about)


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> I’m curious: what happens if you just have sex with her whenever you want to? Why do you need her to initiate, especially if you know it comes unnaturally for her?


Because he's not you?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I get what you are saying and said that I’m probably missing a lot of context and was simply replying on the basis of what you wrote alone and was just trying to make sure that this:



EllisRedding said:


> The reality is (for me), if she is not making an effort (at least what I perceive an effort), I eventually lose interest.



is the correct way around and that it’s not ‘I am less and less interested in sex and need her to initiate more and more in order to become at all interested’.

I really am not sure how many men actually notice or admit that their libido is declining with age and that it gets more bothersome to get yourself in the mood. Some then use this frustration and project it on their partner. Not saying you are doing it but that’s why I say that i think it’s important to distinguish whether one is actually rejected the majority of the time or whether one is unhappy having to initiate oneself. It’s not natural for women to initiate (sorry to be repetitive) and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that nor that it is necessarily a sign that they don’t WANT or don’t desire their partner.



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> Because he's not you?



Nobody has to be me in order to initiate to have sex with someone who is willing to have sex 
I thought his wife made it clear that he can have sex with her whenever he wants to? So my question was simply: does he want to?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

InMyPrime said:


> I get what you are saying and said that I’m probably missing a lot of context and was simply replying on the basis of what you wrote alone and was just trying to make sure that this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually I started HRT about 5 months ago, so my libido is actually back where it used to be (so any sort of declining libido is not an issue for me as of now, and nothing is being deflected at my W regarding this)

I still think you are kind of missing the point. My W has shown that she is willing to initiate. Getting some sort of consistency out of it has been the challenge, and part I think is simply b/c we are somewhat mismatched, it is hard for her to relate to. However, still, the point of this thread was meant more for everyone to discuss what they view as being sexually desired. In my case, initiating / making an effort does help in making me feel desired. I understand that doesn't necessarily mean my W doesn't "want" me, but still right or wrong it is how I feel. It is no different than anyone else here stating what makes them feel desired.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

InMyPrime said:


> Nobody has to be me in order to initiate to have sex with someone who is willing to have sex
> *I thought his wife made it clear that he can have sex with her whenever he wants to? So my question was simply: does he want to?*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


With the bolded, I think you again miss my point and the point Buddy was making with his response


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Actually I started HRT about 5 months ago, so my libido is actually back where it used to be (so any sort of declining libido is not an issue for me as of now, and nothing is being deflected at my W regarding this)
> 
> I still think you are kind of missing the point. My W has shown that she is willing to initiate. Getting some sort of consistency out of it has been the challenge, and part I think is simply b/c we are somewhat mismatched, it is hard for her to relate to. However, still, the point of this thread was meant more for everyone to discuss what they view as being sexually desired. In my case, initiating / making an effort does help in making me feel desired. I understand that doesn't necessarily mean my W doesn't "want" me, but still right or wrong it is how I feel. It is no different than anyone else here stating what makes them feel desired.



I think I get the point. And I keep hinting that you can’t change her. You can however change or ‘think yourself out’ of how you feel without a huge cost to yourself...but maybe that’s not what you want or need...
I presume she agreed to initiate more under some kind of pressure from you rather than out of the blue? (You mentioned you guys ‘blew up’).
It doesn’t mean she wants or likes to initiate if she agreed to it. Nor does it mean that she doesn’t want to have sex with you. There are some situations where the partner has no desire to have sex. That’s clearly not the case here. There are some situations where the partner imagines that their partner doesn’t want to have sex with them. That can’t really be established reliably without asking your wife...and even then, one won’t be sure. There are also many in-between situations....


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> With the bolded, I think you again miss my point and the point Buddy was making with his response



Ok let’s cut to the point: it is not clear (to me at least) that what you are actually asking of her is entirely reasonable, given what you have described.
You want her to be or act a certain way that is unnatural for her, in order to get something, that you would also get, without her having to bend over backwards to be someone else.

Have you thought that perhaps for her, it is just as important to feel that YOU want to take her, since, after all, it is you who supposedly wants sex more often than her? (Yes I know, to you and maybe others who are reading it, it is not about sex but about showing that someone WANTS to have sex. Then I ask you: would you instead be ok with a partner who would be constantly showing you how much they wanted to have sex with you, without actually having sex with you? Don’t laugh, actually my second girlfriend was like that...I still remember how much my balls hurt back then to this day...although I’m grateful I didn’t lose my virginity/take hers, till I found my wife).


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I love sex and I love my husband. However, if my husband wanted us to have more 6 but he told me he just couldn't have sex with me and less I made the 1st move because his ego needs that, my 1st thought would be what a wimp, and I would just instantly lose attraction. Let me be clear, I do initiate 6. But I am the girl. Fight it all you want to, but it is the nature of us for the man to pursuit. If you are not going to pursue, you don't get to complain.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

InMyPrime said:


> Ok let’s cut to the point: it is not clear (to me at least) that what you are actually asking of her is entirely reasonable, given what you have described.
> You want her to be or act a certain way that is unnatural for her, in order to get something, that you would also get, without her having to bend over backwards to be someone else.
> 
> Have you thought that perhaps for her, it is just as important to feel that YOU want to take her, since, after all, it is you who supposedly wants sex more often than her? (Yes I know, to yo*u and maybe others who are reading it, it is not about sex but about showing that someone WANTS to have sex. Then I ask you: would you instead be ok with a partner who would be constantly showing you how much they wanted to have sex with you, without actually having sex with you?* Don’t laugh, actually my second girlfriend was like that...I still remember how much my balls hurt back then to this day...although I’m grateful I didn’t lose my virginity/take hers, till I found my wife).
> ...


See, the reason why I feel you keep missing the point, I can't control what makes me feel desired. It isn't something I can pick and choose. The same goes for anyone else here. The point of this thread was purely that, to discuss what we consider sexual desire (understanding that this is really specific to each of us). I can choose to either accept that the desire can't quite be met, or choose to try and communicate with my W to see if we can find some middle ground. The latter is where I am headed, but you keep focusing on the former for some reason.

You keep talking about me asking her to do things that are unnatural to her, I don't know why since if you are reading what I am posting you would understand I am not asking for such. Per the bolded, I actually already commented about that in my other posts. Also, nowhere have I said that I want my W to show me more that she wants me (in the way you describe per the bolded).

TBH, I have no clue where you are going with all this lol.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

And your wife probably cannot control the fact that she is not comfortable with initiating. Since you cannot change her, you can either accept things as they are, or you can try to change you.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> TBH, I have no clue where you are going with all this lol.



Not really going anywhere: already arrived 

IMO, you can ask someone to do things for you - that is fine. But asking someone to be they are not, while also doing those things, is going several steps further.

But it doesn’t matter, if you see it differently. Just thought you might want to get another perspective as it might not be worth it spending mental energy on this.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> I love sex and I love my husband. However, if my husband wanted us to have more 6 but he told me he just couldn't have sex with me and less I made the 1st move because his ego needs that, my 1st thought would be what a wimp, and I would just instantly lose attraction. Let me be clear, I do initiate 6. But I am the girl. Fight it all you want to, but it is the nature of us for the man to pursuit. If you are not going to pursue, you don't get to complain.




Plus pursuit can be very exciting. Men do it all the time in the beginning stages. I don’t know what it is that happens later on that changes this and men stop wanting to pursue and expect the woman to do the pursuing. If it’s due to continuous rejection, I think I can completely understand that.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> And your wife probably cannot control the fact that she is not comfortable with initiating. Since you cannot change her, you can either accept things as they are, or you can try to change you.


Why do you think my W is uncomfortable initiating? She used to initiate a lot more in the past. When we go on vacation she is frequently initiating (unfortunately I am not independently wealthy so we have to keep vacations to a reasonable amount lol). So one difference now is when she "initiates" she will do so by asking if I want to have sex. This is a relatively new thing. So for me I am curious what changed? Is it something I have maybe done that makes her more hesitant or feeling like she needs my approval. Is it something else? Honestly don't know, but worth a conversation.

Seems like some of you are so quick to jump on the "she won't change, only you can change" bandwagon. How about the idea of communicating with your SO first. At the end of the day maybe things won't change, I can be fine with that.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Why do you think my W is uncomfortable initiating? She used to initiate a lot more in the past. When we go on vacation she is frequently initiating (unfortunately I am not independently wealthy so we have to keep vacations to a reasonable amount lol). So one difference now is when she "initiates" she will do so by asking if I want to have sex. This is a relatively new thing. So for me I am curious what changed? Is it something I have maybe done that makes her more hesitant or feeling like she needs my approval. Is it something else? Honestly don't know, but worth a conversation.
> 
> Seems like some of you are so quick to jump on the "she won't change, only you can change" bandwagon. How about the idea of communicating with your SO first. At the end of the day maybe things won't change, I can be fine with that.


My thoughts are different, and I really have no idea if they are applicable or on point at all. But I will throw it out there for your consideration. The one risk to continually talking about this is potentially engendering a feeling of I can't do anything right. You want more sex, cool, game on. I will be good to go whenever. You want me to initiate. Cool, game on, I will set my alarm. I am initiating too infrequently. Well... Oh and I am initiating the wrong way.... Well, f you and the horse you rode in on. Ya know? As I say, I don't know if this is something to consider. Just a thought.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> My thoughts are different, and I really have no idea if they are applicable or on point at all. But I will throw it out there for your consideration. The one risk to continually talking about this is potentially engendering a feeling of I can't do anything right. You want more sex, cool, game on. I will be good to go whenever. You want me to initiate. Cool, game on, I will set my alarm. I am initiating too infrequently. Well... Oh and I am initiating the wrong way.... Well, f you and the horse you rode in on. Ya know? As I say, I don't know if this is something to consider. Just a thought.


Nah, I actually agree with you on this NS as those same thoughts have entered my head. Not looking to beat a dead horse and definitely don't want to discourage. I go back and forth frequently about whether or not to bring up. Communication is an area I have been trying to do a better job with. Here the catch 22. I say something and run the risk that my W responds negatively. I don't say something, get frustrated, and then my W knocks me in the head for not saying something in the first place (this in the past was more common with me and a habit I am trying to break as she hates when I keep things to myself for her sake)


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Nah, I actually agree with you on this NS as those same thoughts have entered my head. Not looking to beat a dead horse and definitely don't want to discourage. I go back and forth frequently about whether or not to bring up. Communication is an area I have been trying to do a better job with. Here the catch 22. I say something and run the risk that my W responds negatively. I don't say something, get frustrated, and then my W knocks me in the head for not saying something in the first place (this in the past was more common with me and a habit I am trying to break as she hates when I keep things to myself for her sake)


Yup


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

EllisRedding said:


> Nah, I actually agree with you on this NS as those same thoughts have entered my head. Not looking to beat a dead horse and definitely don't want to discourage. I go back and forth frequently about whether or not to bring up. Communication is an area I have been trying to do a better job with. Here the catch 22. I say something and run the risk that my W responds negatively. I don't say something, get frustrated, and then my W knocks me in the head for not saying something in the first place (this in the past was more common with me and a habit I am trying to break as she hates when I keep things to myself for her sake)




When I am on vacation I am definitely more sexually bold and aggressive like your wife. Then we get home and for some reason something changes... maybe have a conversation with her about this instead. How she feels when she is on vacation vs when she is at home. You know she desires you (especially on vacation) so that isn’t a question. It’s just figuring out how to increase that sexual desire/confidence without needing a vacation every time.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Girl_power said:


> When I am on vacation I am definitely more sexually bold and aggressive like your wife. Then we get home and for some reason something changes... maybe have a conversation with her about this instead. How she feels when she is on vacation vs when she is at home. You know she desires you (especially on vacation) so that isn’t a question. It’s just figuring out how to increase that sexual desire/confidence without needing a vacation every time.


Thanks, that sums up what I am trying to sort out. I completely understand how being at home changes the dynamics (we have 3 kids). Is there something more I can do, she can do, or we can do together to help bridge that gap when we are home, that is really the question. One of the things I do is I will take off days from work when the kids are at school so we don't have that distraction (my W is a SAHM currently), and my W is always very responsive (similar to when we are on vacation). However, at some point my kids are going to get annoyed when I have no vacation time left to take them anywhere lol.

Its a work in progress, I just want to keep the lines of communication open instead of bottling up which is more natural for me.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Nah, I actually agree with you on this NS as those same thoughts have entered my head. Not looking to beat a dead horse and definitely don't want to discourage. I go back and forth frequently about whether or not to bring up. Communication is an area I have been trying to do a better job with. Here the catch 22. I say something and run the risk that my W responds negatively. I don't say something, get frustrated, and then my W knocks me in the head for not saying something in the first place (this in the past was more common with me and a habit I am trying to break as she hates when I keep things to myself *for her sake*)


What yourself there. It really isn't for her sake. Is it? Seems like a small distinction. It isn't.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> What yourself there. It really isn't for her sake. Is it? Seems like a small distinction. It isn't.


No, when I say for her sake what I mean is not telling her something for fear of making her feel bad.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> What yourself there. It really isn't for her sake. Is it? Seems like a small distinction. It isn't.


Agreed. Most like ER refrains from mentioning his unhappiness from a desire not to "rock the boat", not to cause his wife to be upset with him, not wanting her to shut off sex, etc.

I can tell you, now that we don't have sex, and I don't have to worry about her shutting off the spigot, I am much more open about how her behavior affects me. And her being in a bad mood affects me much less than before. In the past, I might well have said that I kept silent "for her sake", but my trying to avoid getting sent to the doghouse was not truly "for her sake".


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> No, when I say for her sake what I mean is not telling her something for fear of making her feel bad.


.... Were you worried about making her feel bad? .... Or a negative reaction to what you desire to achieve? Really. Asking.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> .... Were you worried about making her feel bad? .... Or a negative reaction to what you desire to achieve? Really. Asking.


I think you guys are missing the boat on what I was saying. My point was in the past I would generally keep things to myself. My W and I talked about this, and part of my concern was making her feel bad (to answer your question NS, negative reaction had nothing to do with it, she has some self confidence issues). So my W and I agreed that I would do better to not keep things from her for her sake (in the context I just listed)


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> Agreed. Most like ER refrains from mentioning his unhappiness from a desire not to "rock the boat", not to cause his wife to be upset with him, not wanting her to shut off sex, etc.
> .


See my response to NS, the above is actually not the case. My concern has not been my W getting upset with me or shutting off sex


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> See my response to NS, the above is actually not the case. My concern has not been my W getting upset with me or shutting off sex


Tha't cool. I was not trying to rag on you. Just offering a possible thought.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> > What yourself there. It really isn't for her sake. Is it? Seems like a small distinction. It isn't.
> ...


I think you’re doing well, you know now that telling her that it makes you feel bad when FITB, is ok and won’t make her feel bad. Or even if it does make her feel bad, you now realize it will be ok and she may feel bad for a short time but then you will both feel good again. 

You know it’s important to let her know, rather than hold it in.

And you know she wants you to speak up.

She wuvs you and does desire you and want to make you happy. That’s where you’ve got to keep your focus because she has shown that it is true.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

She wuvs you, that's the take away.

Thanks @faithfulwife for the correct terminology 😁😁.

Here's a thing:

We had a break from sex while my wife was recovering from ortho knee surgery, meniscus something or another.

I felt I was doing good, and was, no pressure, but in the end DW said "hey how come we're not having sex".

Instead of hey, my knee's better.

Or maybe I missed the clue. I've always appreciated direct information. 

But hey, we're good to go!! 😍😍😍


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Hey, @EllisRedding, 

I don't know how old you guys are, but speaking from the perspective of "a woman of a certain age" and being a work-from-home Taurus, home is like a nest. Yes I do business from my nest, and yes, the family interacts and we live in the nest, but transitioning "nest" to "red light district" can be a little different. I mean, on vacation, or out adventuring, life is thrilling and adrenalin is pumping and because it is a different environment, it's easier to be risque and act on feelings of desire. At home, there are schedules to keep and routines and it's comfortable and warm and inviting...but not necesarily conducive to building desire. 

Now for me, I'm fairly lucky in that I am not too hard to get in the mood--and it sounds to me like your wife is willing as well and has the ability to be "into it." What I do is keep the two kinds of environments in a balance: warm, comfy, inviting, cuddly bed...sensuous, pleasurable, luxurious, seductive bedroom. See what I mean? Home is a haven, but it's also where lovers love...and that needs just as much attention. 

As to whether to talk to your wife or not, I very much prefer when someone talks to be and is open with their thoughts and feelings, even if it's something that might hurt me. I don't mind being given a little warning, like: "Hey I would like to talk about something and I need to let you know I'm nervous because I don't want to hurt you but I think it might...yet it's important to me so we do need to talk. Will you let me know when you're ready to have a dedicated conversation?" I know that might at first seem like the opening to a fight, but I'm VERY blunt and thus others may need to hear it differently but that would totally work for me. I would worry...and be ready to talk in about 2 minutes.  BUT I would also take a little time to protect myself a little and to prepare to listen like I'm listening to a friend whom I love. Okay? So if your wife is somewhat like me...I would encourage you to talk to her and try to let her know what you need. It sounds to me like she would be willing to hear you and give it a try if she understood what to do.


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## serenity22 (Apr 25, 2017)

Feeling attractive. Knowing that someone appreciates me and my body. It should not be complicated.


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