# Limerence



## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Hi again!
I have been reading a lot about limerence. (Both on and off of this sight) Boy is this an interesting phenomenon! Let me start by saying this absolutely positively does NOT excuse bad behavior at all whatsoever-- At.All. (Ok, now that we got that out of the way) It does however explain why people absolutely explode their lives and act completely irrationally. Strangely enough, I believe my husband has one way limerence (which apparently seems to exist also). Just wondering about others thoughts on this concept. For anyone who is wondering... I believe this is often referred to as "the fog" or the insane infatuation that causes a person to behave in strange and irrational ways. Basically blowing up their lives in the hope to be with this fantasy, soulmate like person or so they think caused by addiction like chemicals in their brain. Horrifying/devastating to go through as the BS but an interesting concept.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Also known as horniness.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

What I think is interesting (and sucky) is that there is nothing and I mean nothing that you could say to "wake" your spouse up from this state. No amount of reasoning will do it. It's almost like the Terminator (you can't reason with it...it doesn't feel remorse or pity) After 2 days I went right to no contact and actually I think that is the best move you can make with a spouse in this state. I am in limited contact now b/c of child and job but I speak of nothing else and keep it brief and business like). I think for anyone going through this crap it is good to know that nothing you can say will change their view while in this state so you shouldn't even try.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

guys do not use that word.
what does it mean?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Boy, there's a "disorder" to excuse just about every bad behavior, isn't there?


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Boy, there's a "disorder" to excuse just about every bad behavior, isn't there?


No excuse whatsoever for the behavior as I mentioned in the original post. I just thought it was interesting how people try to reason with their spouse and how/why it doesn't work. I understand however why this thought can upset people if they think it should excuse their behavior. Which is does not.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

thissucks7788 said:


> No excuse whatsoever for the behavior as I mentioned in the original post. I just thought it was interesting how people try to reason with their spouse and how/why it doesn't work. I understand however why though this thought can upset people if they think it should excuse their behavior. Which is does not.


I see that you didn't excuse it. But people in the throes of it, once they've blown their life and the lives of everyone around them into smithereens, will use it as an excuse.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> guys do not use that word.
> what does it mean?


This is the definition -- 
--the state of being infatuated or obsessed with another person, typically experienced involuntarily and characterized by a strong desire for reciprocation of one's feelings but not primarily for a sexual relationship.

I have heard it described like the fog. Seems no logical reasoning seems to be going on and they will destroy everything about their lives for the idea to be with this person. I understand that there are brain addiction chemicals that go along with this. 

Again I want to re-iterate that this is no excuse for their behavior. It is just the first I have heard of this whole thing.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I see that you didn't excuse it. But people in the throes of it, once they've blown their life and the lives of everyone around them into smithereens, will use it as an excuse.


Agreed!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

thissucks7788 said:


> What I think is interesting (and sucky) is that there is nothing and I mean nothing that you could say to "wake" your spouse up from this state. No amount of reasoning will do it. It's almost like the Terminator (you can't reason with it...it doesn't feel remorse or pity) After 2 days I went right to no contact and actually I think that is the best move you can make with a spouse in this state. I am in limited contact now b/c of child and job but I speak of nothing else and keep it brief and business like). I think for anyone going through this crap it is good to know that nothing you can say will change their view while in this state so you shouldn't even try.


I agree wholeheartedly here. 

The best way to deal with a WS's limerance is to let them experience the consequences of their actions. 

Let them come home to all their stuff in the driveway. Let them be served divorce papers and have to hire lawyers and comply with the divorce proceedings. Let them only have contact with their children on their designated custody days. Let them divide up their marital assets. Let them look for an apartment while their stuff is in storage. Let their friends and family know why the separation is taking place. If it i a workplace affair that is against company policy, let their superiors and HR department address the workplace aspect. Let the AP's BS be fully aware of what is taking place. Let them get their azz whupped by the AP's BS. 

In other words, simply do not protect them or shelter them from the ramifications of their own actions. Not only is the most effective means of breaking limerance, it's about the only thing that does effect it. 

That's not only the most effective way


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I agree wholeheartedly here.
> 
> The best way to deal with a WS's limerance is to let them experience the consequences of their actions.
> 
> ...


Yes! I think protecting them will prolong it and even if you don't want the marriage anymore -why should they be allowed to hang in happy fantasy land. Time for the crash. I also love as much no contact as possible --since they blew it- they should not have the good fortune of your friendship/presence etc... I think this post could be helpful to anyone who is in this situation that thinks reasoning etc is going to help.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

thissucks7788 said:


> Yes! I think protecting them will prolong it and even if you don't want the marriage anymore -why should they be allowed to hang in happy fantasy land. Time for the crash. I also love as much no contact as possible --since they blew it- they should not have the good fortune of your friendship/presence etc... I think this post could be helpful to anyone who is in this situation that thinks reasoning etc is going to help.


It is incredible the amount of betrayed spouses that actually hide the truth and feed the fog.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

this fog you speak of....it is short lived, from what i have seen.

a dose of reality, AND some time apart from this "limerance" partner, and the fog just vanishes.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> this fog you speak of....it is short lived, from what i have seen.
> 
> a dose of reality, AND some time apart from this "limerance" partner, and the fog just vanishes.


I believe it. It shocks me how much people are willing to give up for this temporary feeling. I felt like my husband just lost his mind and I couldn't imagine wth happened. Learning about this actually gives me some closure. Even though I moved him out of my house and have very limited contact (kids/work only) I still wondered how this all went down so quickly and that I had no clue. This information helped me to process. Based on this-- he and anyone else who behaves like this is in for a huge fall and dose of reality. Which if I am honest gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

That’s why some betrayed spouses choose to wait it out (I’m definitely not recommending that but it happens, in my life-long observation of marriages, more than divorce happens).


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Yes, limerence is the fog people talk about. There is a word for it in many other languages, usually along the lines of being obsessed with someone or something. 

As with any altered mental state, it cannot last forever.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> That’s why some betrayed spouses choose to wait it out (I’m definitely not recommending that but it happens, in my life-long observation of marriages, more than divorce happens).


Interesting. What a destructive situation over a temporary feeling. It seems from my reading that some spouses (who are feeling limerence) actually see it coming so they put boundaries up as to not ruin their marriage. I can respect those people.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

As'laDain said:


> Yes, limerence is the fog people talk about. There is a word for it in many other languages, usually along the lines of being obsessed with someone or something.
> 
> As with any altered mental state, it cannot last forever.


Stuff you just didn't know. I guess I always thought of when you meet someone, it is like the "honeymoon" phase. This obsession/infatuation fantasy thing is def. different.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Thank you for indulging me in this discussion. In my processing and reflecting stage, it sort of felt like an a-ha moment.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

thissucks7788 said:


> Interesting. What a destructive situation over a temporary feeling. It seems from my reading that some spouses (who are feeling limerence) actually see it coming so they put boundaries up as to not ruin their marriage. I can at respect those people.


People get so caught up in it that’s literally all they can think about. Until it goes away. Then they want it back and someone else comes along to fuel it. That’s how some serial cheaters operate anyway. My exH was addicted to the admiration and validation and adoration he got from other women. He was willing to risk our marriage for it and he lost. Then he wanted another chance but it was too late.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> People get so caught up in it that’s literally all they can think about. Until it goes away. Then they want it back and someone else comes along to fuel it. That’s how some serial cheaters operate anyway. My exH was addicted to the admiration and validation and adoration he got from other women. He was willing to risk our marriage for it and he lost. Then he wanted another chance but it was too late.


Seriously sounds like a drug addict. I guess addicted to that chemical in the brain feeling. I'm glad you had the chance to turn him away in the end.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

it really is like a drug addiction. it can happen to anyone, and can even happen within an established relationship. if someone can figure out how to trigger dopamine responses, they can trigger it. the actions that trigger those dopamine dumps can change, but that is really all it is. 

its basically a source of dopamine with enough context to allow someone to convince themselves that the object is the cause of the way they feel, so it becomes sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. 

its not just having someone make them feel good, its also getting them to believe that they need the other person just to feel that way at all. 

so it ends up being a combination of belief and emotion, which is incredibly powerful.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

thissucks7788 said:


> Seriously sounds like a drug addict. I guess addicted to that chemical in the brain feeling. I'm glad you had the chance to turn him away in the end.


Yes, that feeling is definitely like a drug high and those addicted to it keep chasing when it eventually wears off, as it inevitably does.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

thissucks7788 said:


> This is the definition --
> --the state of being infatuated or obsessed with another person, typically experienced involuntarily and characterized by a strong desire for reciprocation of one's feelings but not primarily for a sexual relationship.
> 
> I have heard it described like the fog. Seems no logical reasoning seems to be going on and they will destroy everything about their lives for the idea to be with this person. I understand that there are brain addiction chemicals that go along with this.
> ...


I think it is largely sexual attraction but also is a remnant of hope that you have found your ideal person who exists only in your head and that you are projecting those ideal qualities onto this person.

Limerence can be a short-term thing if they actually get together with the person and find out they're not the ideal person who lives in their head but are just human. Unfortunately limerence is often one way so they may never get time enough with the person to figure out they're flawed like everybody else.

People in limerence often have an idealistic view of love as well and think that if they are feeling this strong attraction to this person, that fate will compel them together and that they are destined to be together, and I think that is what makes them so hard to budge. They are people who have never learned that just because they are strongly attracted to someone does not mean that person would ever be attracted back or even that you would get along with them. At some point most people figure that out and become adults.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think it is largely sexual attraction but also is a remnant of hope that you have found your ideal person who exists only in your head and that you are projecting those ideal qualities onto this person.
> 
> Limerence can be a short-term thing if they actually get together with the person and find out they're not the ideal person who lives in their head but are just human. Unfortunately limerence is often one way so they may never get time enough with the person to figure out they're flawed like everybody else.


in a lot of cases, there is a sexual attraction, but that is usually a pretty small part of it. with limerence, people get so obsessive that they interpret all kinds of wild things from every little thing the other person does or does not do. for instance, taking longer than normal to respond to a text message must mean they are upset, or they have found someone else, or, or, or.... etc.

it is inherently one sided, but both people can experience it at the same time. the difference between a typical honeymoon phase/ new relationship emotions and limerence is that with limerence, people get the rationalization machine going at full speed. 

ever hear the comparison of the hamster wheel running at full speed? that is an inherent part of it. the topic of limerence often comes up when people study why there is so much divorce in western societies. and part of it is because people get married while in a state of limerence. when the feelings wear off, they often do the same thing they did when they were experiencing it: they rationalize things to explain and justify the way they feel. so when the good feelings wear off, they divorce.

some people will never experience limerence. and someone who has experienced it in the past can learn to pay attention to the difference between emotions and meaning. some people will never learn to discern the difference and will go on either cheating on every partner, or fall into a pattern of serial monogamy. 

its as powerful as any drug, but it gets even more powerful because it mixes emotion with a lack of self awareness.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anyone affected by limerence, past the teen years, isn't worth the company of grown ups or has a severe chemical and/or brain imbalance.

There are choices made by healthy adults and winding up in that state is no accident for anyone not suffering from some sort of illness.

Actions, like divorce papers being served, followed by ultimatums requiring measurable changes and outcomes work far better than any talking.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

thissucks7788 said:


> he and anyone else who behaves like this is in for a huge fall and dose of reality.


We wish this were so, but it isnt always. There are bunches of threads on TAM where the only person who suffers a fall is the BS. There are several active threads right now. One guy cant get the divorce finished, cant get stuff out of his own house, was charged with DV maliciously. His WW is on BF #3 since D day. She is having a good time.

In case of your wayward husband, the 20 year old MIGHT go with him and rock his world from now on. Unlikely, but possible.

Best to stop hoping for a “fall” and just do your best to make a life for yourself and write him totally out of your life script. A life lived well is the best revenge.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I don’t really think cheaters ever get what they deserve. They don’t believe they were wrong, they never cared about their spouse to begin with, and they certainly have no feeling for the children whose lives are upended with their behavior. They’re sociopaths. They don’t care about anyone but themselves.

My best friend was unfaithful. To this day, all her “remorse” over it is theatre. Her husband certainly feels no remorse for all his cheating.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

thissucks7788 said:


> Hi again!
> I have been reading a lot about limerence. (Both on and off of this sight) Boy is this an interesting phenomenon! Let me start by saying this absolutely positively does NOT excuse bad behavior at all whatsoever-- At.All. (Ok, now that we got that out of the way) It does however explain why people absolutely explode their lives and act completely irrationally. Strangely enough, I believe my husband has one way limerence (which apparently seems to exist also). Just wondering about others thoughts on this concept. For anyone who is wondering... I believe this is often referred to as "the fog" or the insane infatuation that causes a person to behave in strange and irrational ways. Basically blowing up their lives in the hope to be with this fantasy, soulmate like person or so they think caused by addiction like chemicals in their brain. Horrifying/devastating to go through as the BS but an interesting concept.


Yes, it does seem to be stronger or at least as strong as heroin. I saw a Dr. Phil once where this lady has been married over 30 years and fell head over heels in love with this Nigerian guy she never even seen before. She was sending him money all their money and couldn't wait to implode her marriage to get to this guy.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

thissucks7788 said:


> Hi again!
> I have been reading a lot about limerence. (Both on and off of this sight) Boy is this an interesting phenomenon! Let me start by saying this absolutely positively does NOT excuse bad behavior at all whatsoever-- At.All. (Ok, now that we got that out of the way) It does however explain why people absolutely explode their lives and act completely irrationally. Strangely enough, I believe my husband has one way limerence (which apparently seems to exist also). Just wondering about others thoughts on this concept. For anyone who is wondering... I believe this is often referred to as "the fog" or the insane infatuation that causes a person to behave in strange and irrational ways. Basically blowing up their lives in the hope to be with this fantasy, soulmate like person or so they think caused by addiction like chemicals in their brain. Horrifying/devastating to go through as the BS but an interesting concept.


Yes, it does seem to be stronger or at least as strong as heroin. I saw a Dr. Phil once where this lady has been married over 30 years and fell head over heels in love with this Nigerian guy she never even seen before. She was sending him money all their money and couldn't wait to implode her marriage to get to this guy. I definitely think it's a personality type that goes that far, an addictive personality.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

As'laDain said:


> in a lot of cases, there is a sexual attraction, but that is usually a pretty small part of it. with limerence, people get so obsessive that they interpret all kinds of wild things from every little thing the other person does or does not do. for instance, taking longer than normal to respond to a text message must mean they are upset, or they have found someone else, or, or, or.... etc.
> 
> it is inherently one sided, but both people can experience it at the same time. the difference between a typical honeymoon phase/ new relationship emotions and limerence is that with limerence, people get the rationalization machine going at full speed.
> 
> ...


You are good. Very interesting read, thank you!


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> Anyone affected by limerence, past the teen years, isn't worth the company of grown ups or has a severe chemical and/or brain imbalance.
> 
> There are choices made by healthy adults and winding up in that state is no accident for anyone not suffering from some sort of illness.
> 
> Actions, like divorce papers being served, followed by ultimatums requiring measurable changes and outcomes work far better than any talking.


I agree, this does seem to have a large amount of immaturity attached to it, but maybe b/c I am not the one in it. Still seems teen"ish".


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> We wish this were so, but it isnt always. There are bunches of threads on TAM where the only person who suffers a fall is the BS. There are several active threads right now. One guy cant get the divorce finished, cant get stuff out of his own house, was charged with DV maliciously. His WW is on BF #3 since D day. She is having a good time.
> 
> In case of your wayward husband, the 20 year old MIGHT go with him and rock his world from now on. Unlikely, but possible.
> 
> Best to stop hoping for a “fall” and just do your best to make a life for yourself and write him totally out of your life script. A life lived well is the best revenge.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Mybabysgotit said:


> Yes, it does seem to be stronger or at least as strong as heroin. I saw a Dr. Phil once where this lady has been married over 30 years and fell head over heels in love with this Nigerian guy she never even seen before. She was sending him money all their money and couldn't wait to implode her marriage to get to this guy.


Yeah, lonely people are vulnerable to sweet talking scam artists. Seems to mostly be people who had one long marriage and are widowed and they are as naive as an 18 year old still.

I certainly lived on limerence when I was young. I was obsessive and just hyperfocused and miserable a lot. I have that tendency. It's a relief to be older and have given that up. Mine would usually culminate in a "sort of" boyfriend, so at least I got to the bottom of a couple of them. One, I still idolize but that's because he was always careful not to break my heart and left me feeling okay -- and also because there were some commonalities and substance there. We were a bit alike in some ways. But his type woman was the type he had to rescue/save. So he liked me, but I didn't trigger the thing that made him vulnerable. 

But yeah, I was definitely in the "idealistic love" category and vulnerable to all that.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> We wish this were so, but it isnt always. There are bunches of threads on TAM where the only person who suffers a fall is the BS. There are several active threads right now. One guy cant get the divorce finished, cant get stuff out of his own house, was charged with DV maliciously. His WW is on BF #3 since D day. She is having a good time.
> 
> In case of your wayward husband, the 20 year old MIGHT go with him and rock his world from now on. Unlikely, but possible.
> 
> Best to stop hoping for a “fall” and just do your best to make a life for yourself and write him totally out of your life script. A life lived well is the best revenge.


I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have been moving forward and doing fairly well. However in those moments before sleep when brain is engaged I hate to admit that I have some of those "dose of reality" for him feelings and it gives me a dopamine rush.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> Yes, it does seem to be stronger or at least as strong as heroin. I saw a Dr. Phil once where this lady has been married over 30 years and fell head over heels in love with this Nigerian guy she never even seen before. She was sending him money all their money and couldn't wait to implode her marriage to get to this guy.


That's crazy!!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

thissucks7788 said:


> That's crazy!!


Well, that scam thing is a common scam and he's had a whole bunch of people on who have sent unseen people money. The scam artists are usually nigerian, where they run it like a business there. They copy love notes from the internet and target old ladies and old men sometimes and send fake photos of someone's identity they have stolen. They tell them they have money coming to them so they'll pay them back, but right now they are stuck in some foreign country and need money to get out and just keep milking the victim for money. You really do have to be crazy to not see through it, but the scam artists are smart in that they choose their victims well and then groom them to be fiercely loyal. They never meet them and say they're going to be coming in at an airport or meet them in some other country and then make up an excuse why they couldn't. They use bad english and anyone with a brain would know, but you have to realize some people are desperate to hold onto the dream and feel they can't live without it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mybabysgotit said:


> Yes, it does seem to be stronger or at least as strong as heroin. I saw a Dr. Phil once where this lady has been married over 30 years and fell head over heels in love with this Nigerian guy she never even seen before. She was sending him money all their money and couldn't wait to implode her marriage to get to this guy. I definitely think it's a personality type that goes that far, an addictive personality.


LoL!

That's when you separate finances and kick the deranged lunatic to the curb so she can spend all her money on her delusions.

Unless there was a way to get the batshit crazy committed for her own good.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> LoL!
> 
> That's when you separate finances and kick the deranged lunatic to the curb so she can spend all her money on her delusions.
> 
> Unless there was a way to get the batshit crazy committed for her own good.


Well, they're very often widowed, but yeah, their grown kids are desperate to make it stop. It usually is women he has on, but occasionally a middle-aged man who thinks he has a hot 20-something blonde in love with him and has no doubt about it whatsoever because apparently hasn't looked in a mirror for a good long while.....

On the women, sometimes the fake men are age-appropriate and attractive for their age and successful.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, they're very often widowed, but yeah, their grown kids are desperate to make it stop. It usually is women he has on, but occasionally a middle-aged man who thinks he has a hot 20-something blonde in love with him and has no doubt about it whatsoever because apparently hasn't looked in a mirror for a good long while.....
> 
> On the women, sometimes the fake men are age-appropriate and attractive for their age and successful.


This was in response to the woman who was still married, for 30 years, and sending money.

I have zero sympathy for men who abandon their families for a hot young gold digger and think they should be taken for every penny the betrayed wife and children can get.

When it comes to widows, I would invest in or actively take part in, operations to target and hunt down the scammers and send them to God.

I'm not joking. People who prey on the elderly need the silver cord cut in this barbarian's opinion.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> This was in response to the woman who was still married, for 30 years, and sending money.
> 
> I have zero sympathy for men who abandon their families for a hot young gold digger and think they should be taken for every penny the betrayed wife and children can get.
> 
> ...


I completely agree. What Dr. Phil has to do to convince them is find the live person whose photo the scammers have been using and then get them to say it isn't them. Even then, some of the most deluded ones still want to give whoever it is a chance. do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

Well, hopefully, in this case, there's no scam involved, although you never know. I've seen some guys on forums become convinced that some internet prostitute who keeps talking to them is legit. In real life, at least you have a chance of it resolving. On the internet, the only comfort is unlikely they'd ever meet at all.

This could be a midlife crisis too. The reality that you'll likely never have your head in the clouds in love with someone again the way you can when you're young and no responsibilities can hit some people hard.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In Summary : You need that lawyer quick!!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The things some people risk for their genitals in mind boggling to me. I have to conclude that they don't expect to get caught, don't expect consequences, or figure they can make all decisions while everyone else involved waits on them.

The police periodically run stings here where they pose as 12 year old girls. The men they catch are unbelievable....CEO's with 7 figure incomes, wives, children, big houses, active in church. Yet somehow they risk this because they actually think a 12 year old girl is home alone with her parents on vacation....just waiting for him. They'll quietly screw said 12 year old and go back to their life.

These aren't stupid men....thus my conclusion that they don't really expect consequences.

You've said your hb wished you to find another guy. Let's see if he's happy for you when you actually do and 20 year old has made it clear he's broke and creepy and he's trying to come back to the security he had with you.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

thissucks7788 said:


> What I think is interesting (and sucky) is that there is nothing and I mean nothing that you could say to "wake" your spouse up from this state. No amount of reasoning will do it. It's almost like the Terminator (you can't reason with it...it doesn't feel remorse or pity) After 2 days I went right to no contact and actually I think that is the best move you can make with a spouse in this state. I am in limited contact now b/c of child and job but I speak of nothing else and keep it brief and business like). I think for anyone going through this crap it is good to know that nothing you can say will change their view while in this state so you shouldn't even try.


Probably because you were dealing with a personality disordered spouse. No way to talk to them when they have found fresh supply. This is not a limerance problem. It is a defective person problem.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> it really is like a drug addiction. it can happen to anyone, and can even happen within an established relationship. if someone can figure out how to trigger dopamine responses, they can trigger it. the actions that trigger those dopamine dumps can change, but that is really all it is.
> 
> its basically a source of dopamine with enough context to allow someone to convince themselves that the object is the cause of the way they feel, so it becomes sort of a self fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I do not think it " can happen to anyone". Before things reach this stage, many, many small steps, oversteps, and choices are made. And, to a person with a halfway developed conscience, it would never get very far.
You need entitlement, selfishness, dishonesty etc. for the feeling to develop very far.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> *I completely agree. What Dr. Phil has to do to convince them is find the live person whose photo the scammers have been using and then get them to say it isn't them*. Even then, some of the most deluded ones still want to give whoever it is a chance. do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
> 
> Well, hopefully, in this case, there's no scam involved, although you never know. I've seen some guys on forums become convinced that some internet prostitute who keeps talking to them is legit. In real life, at least you have a chance of it resolving. On the internet, the only comfort is unlikely they'd ever meet at all.
> 
> This could be a midlife crisis too. The reality that you'll likely never have your head in the clouds in love with someone again the way you can when you're young and no responsibilities can hit some people hard.


a friend of mine experienced that exact thing... someone was using pictures of him for their romance scams. people had to contact him in order to convince someone that they were being scammed. since i have known this guy(Fanelli) since we were in the same company together in the 82nd airborne(over a decade), i know he is ok with me posting this, since his name and pictures have already been dragged out all over the place anyway, and he just wants people to be aware of the scammers.

Scammers with pictures of Sgt Gabriel Fanelli - Romance Scam


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Anyone affected by limerence, past the teen years, isn't worth the company of grown ups or has a severe chemical and/or brain imbalance.
> 
> There are choices made by healthy adults and winding up in that state is no accident for anyone not suffering from some sort of illness.
> 
> Actions, like divorce papers being served, followed by ultimatums requiring measurable changes and outcomes work far better than any talking.


I agree. One of the main reasons I refused to consider reconciliation after my XW made an overture, was that I had lost respect for her. I was embarrassed that she was so immature and her intellect so dim so as to fall prey to this.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> a friend of mine experienced that exact thing... someone was using pictures of him for their romance scams. people had to contact him in order to convince someone that they were being scammed. since i have known this guy(Fanelli) since we were in the same company together in the 82nd airborne(over a decade), i know he is ok with me posting this, since his name and pictures have already been dragged out all over the place anyway, and he just wants people to be aware of the scammers.
> 
> Scammers with pictures of Sgt Gabriel Fanelli - Romance Scam


Wow, that must really suck!


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Megaforce said:


> Yeah, I do not think it " can happen to anyone". Before things reach this stage, many, many small steps, oversteps, and choices are made. And, to a person with a halfway developed conscience, it would never get very far.
> You need entitlement, selfishness, dishonesty etc. for the feeling to develop very far.


it usually happens to people early on in life. people have already mentioned that its a very teenager kinda thing. 

but psychologically, it is very similar to what happens when people buy into propaganda. it _can_ happen to anyone, but most people learn to maintain a healthy dose of skepticism after they experience having their view of reality collapse. it can still happen if people dont maintain that skepticism going forward.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Wow, that must really suck!


yeah... it was kinda surreal for him. 

every once in a while, i talk about a friend who experienced some pretty horrendous domestic violence from his wife, and then found out there wasn't a single men's shelter in the entire country, so he worked to change that. 

that was him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> yeah... it was kinda surreal for him.
> 
> every once in a while, i talk about a friend who experienced some pretty horrendous domestic violence from his wife, and then found out there wasn't a single men's shelter in the entire country, so he worked to change that.
> 
> that was him.


Oh, wow. That's horrible. I had an aunt who abused her husband, who was pretty helpless from emphesema. Horrible. Of course, that was elder abuse, as well. 

Hope your friend finally got completely away from his abuser. It's not easy, especially if their abuser is the one with all the financial resources under their control. That's why I always tell people not to ever do that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> The things some people risk for their genitals in mind boggling to me. I have to conclude that they don't expect to get caught, don't expect consequences, or figure they can make all decisions while everyone else involved waits on them.
> 
> The police periodically run stings here where they pose as 12 year old girls. The men they catch are unbelievable....CEO's with 7 figure incomes, wives, children, big houses, active in church. Yet somehow they risk this because they actually think a 12 year old girl is home alone with her parents on vacation....just waiting for him. They'll quietly screw said 12 year old and go back to their life.
> 
> ...


No doubt.

It would be an interesting study if I could stomach it.

The plague of female teachers molesting and having obviously illegal sex with boys over the last couple of decades doesn't make a lot of sense in the same regard.

It's obviously not about intelligence or education at all.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, wow. That's horrible. I had an aunt who abused her husband, who was pretty helpless from emphesema. Horrible. Of course, that was elder abuse, as well.
> 
> Hope your friend finally got completely away from his abuser. It's not easy, especially if their abuser is the one with all the financial resources under their control. That's why I always tell people not to ever do that.


he did. it took other people stepping in before he was able to escape. at one point, his wife called 911 and falsified a report against him, after he had run barefoot and bleeding to our staff duty desk to ask for help. his wife was trying to kill him. since the staff duty officer was physically present and witnessed the false report, he was able to tell the police what was really happening when they showed up. 

unfortunately, men often aren't taken seriously when they speak up about domestic violence. he wasn't, for quite a while.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> it usually happens to people early on in life. people have already mentioned that its a very teenager kinda thing.
> 
> but psychologically, it is very similar to what happens when people buy into propaganda. it _can_ happen to anyone, but most people learn to maintain a healthy dose of skepticism after they experience having their view of reality collapse. it can still happen if people dont maintain that skepticism going forward.


Right. So, not everybody, correct?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> he did. it took other people stepping in before he was able to escape. at one point, his wife called 911 and falsified a report against him, after he had run barefoot and bleeding to our staff duty desk to ask for help. his wife was trying to kill him. since the staff duty officer was physically present and witnessed the false report, he was able to tell the police what was really happening when they showed up.
> 
> unfortunately, men often aren't taken seriously when they speak up about domestic violence. he wasn't, for quite a while.


Female on male domestic violence seems to be overlooked. So studies show it is at least as common as vice versa.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> he did. it took other people stepping in before he was able to escape. at one point, his wife called 911 and falsified a report against him, after he had run barefoot and bleeding to our staff duty desk to ask for help. his wife was trying to kill him. since the staff duty officer was physically present and witnessed the false report, he was able to tell the police what was really happening when they showed up.
> 
> unfortunately, men often aren't taken seriously when they speak up about domestic violence. he wasn't, for quite a while.


Yeah. And sometimes neither are women. Because first and foremost, the prevailing attitude is LEAVE. They don't take men as seriously because abused men are just in the minority statistics-wise, very rare (assuming some are embarrassed to report, of course, but so are a lot of women). And also because usually a man can defend himself better against a violent woman -- not that they should ever have to. People need to just report every incident and get out asap, honestly, once it's to that point or there are threats. Glad she got caught at it, at least. Most abusers plan it so they don't get caught, so until there's marks and they are even able to call police or leave and go to a hospital or police station, nothing will happen. 

Sorry he's being abused on the internet. Sheesh. Some people just can't catch a break.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Megaforce said:


> Right. So, not everybody, correct?


you would think, but unfortunately, no. it can still happen, it just gets less and less likely for most people.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah. And sometimes neither are women. Because first and foremost, the prevailing attitude is LEAVE. They don't take men as seriously because abused men are just in the minority statistics-wise, very rare (assuming some are embarrassed to report, of course, but so are a lot of women). And also because usually a man can defend himself better against a violent woman -- not that they should ever have to. People need to just report every incident and get out asap, honestly, once it's to that point or there are threats. Glad she got caught at it, at least. Most abusers plan it so they don't get caught, so until there's marks and they are even able to call police or leave and go to a hospital or police station, nothing will happen.
> 
> Sorry he's not being abused on the internet. Sheesh. Some people just can't catch a break.


in his case, his wife used the Lautenberg Amendment as a weapon. she constantly threatened to file domestic violence charges against him. that would mean he would not be allowed to carry a weapon until an investigation was completed, which would make him pretty much useless as an infantryman. basically, all she had to do was make the accusation and it would tank his career, so he was stuck in a pretty ****ty situation. catching her red handed, with proof and witnesses, was about the only way he could escape it.

the online scam thing became so prevalent that he was featured on fox news:

Online love scams break hearts and leave many in financial ruin | Fox News


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah. And sometimes neither are women. Because first and foremost, the prevailing attitude is LEAVE. They don't take men as seriously because abused men are just in the minority statistics-wise, very rare (assuming some are embarrassed to report, of course, but so are a lot of women). And also because usually a man can defend himself better against a violent woman -- not that they should ever have to. People need to just report every incident and get out asap, honestly, once it's to that point or there are threats. Glad she got caught at it, at least. Most abusers plan it so they don't get caught, so until there's marks and they are even able to call police or leave and go to a hospital or police station, nothing will happen.
> 
> Sorry he's not being abused on the internet. Sheesh. Some people just can't catch a break.


Off topic, but I read that at least one study, purported to have reviewed hundreds of others, found female on male violence slightly more common.
Even if the reverse is true, thereis no good reason that maybe one shelter of thousands in the US accepts male victims


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> Off topic, but I read that at least one study, purported to have reviewed hundreds of others, found female on male violence slightly more common.
> Even if the reverse is true, thereis no good reason that maybe one shelter of thousands in the US accepts male victims


It's true. I have done threads about this and there is a lot of factual data backing it up. This will jack this thread however so....


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Limerence is a new word covering a spectrum of old stuff.
IMO an ill defined "concept".
It haves no significative meaning of it´s own other than to point to something already described by persistent attraction, emotional / romantic attachment, desire, love, being in love.
The pretended distinctions with emotions that also apply to acceptable relationships are not about the intrinsic but an intent to diffuse the fact that there is a the facto choice between two (the BS and the AP).
This is clouded cos from a lot to most of unloyal partners become cake eaters. The choice is factually already done, but masked by what is known as "limbo" where the "fog" is only the shadow of that cognitive contradiction.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ElOtro said:


> Limerence is a new word covering a spectrum of old stuff.
> IMO an ill defined "concept".
> It haves no significative meaning of it´s own other than to point to something already described by persistent attraction, emotional / romantic attachment, desire, love, being in love.
> The pretended distinctions with emotions that also apply to acceptable relationships are not about the intrinsic but an intent to diffuse the fact that there is a the facto choice between two (the BS and the AP).
> This is clouded cos from a lot to most of unloyal partners become cake eaters. The choice is factually already done, but masked by what is known as "limbo" where the "fog" is only the shadow of that cognitive contradiction.


limerence is just a word to describe something that psychologists have been describing for years. i dont know if it is even in the dictionary yet... 
in other languages, the word they use can also mean things like trance, obsession, etc. 

its really just describing a pattern of emotions tied to cognitive dissonance. its not saying that people dont have free agency or that they dont make choices for themselves, but rather describes how people twist reality in order to justify and explain what they feel.

its the same kinda thing that happens when someone demonizes everything a person says or does because they dont like how they make them feel. they have pretty much abandoned logic and rationality in order to strengthen their own interpretation of what their emotions mean.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

one thing that should NOT be a takeaway is that limerence is a justification for anyone's actions. 

its just a word to describe the kind of cognitive dissonance involved in "the fog".


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Off topic, but I read that at least one study, purported to have reviewed hundreds of others, found female on male violence slightly more common.
> Even if the reverse is true, thereis no good reason that maybe one shelter of thousands in the US accepts male victims


I read the only official statistics which are the government crime reports of convictions, basically. It's overwhelmingly men. We've had this discussion here before and I loaded a bunch of stats. Someone had referred to probably what you're talking about, which was one guy's "research," but it turned out the author had later recanted.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Off topic, but I read that at least one study, purported to have reviewed hundreds of others, found female on male violence slightly more common.
> Even if the reverse is true, thereis no good reason that maybe one shelter of thousands in the US accepts male victims


So as to get back on subject of this thread, If you want in on that discussion about male/female violence, here is the thread it was thoroughly hashed over. I searched for my post where I found the interview where Geller recanted. Go up above that for the rest of the stats, etc. 


https://www.talkaboutmarriage.com/threads/female-to-male-violence.444522/page-10#post-20433631


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> limerence is just a word to describe something that psychologists have been describing for years. i dont know if it is even in the dictionary yet...
> in other languages, the word they use can also mean things like trance, obsession, etc.
> 
> its really just describing a pattern of emotions tied to cognitive dissonance. its not saying that people dont have free agency or that they dont make choices for themselves, but rather describes how people twist reality in order to justify and explain what they feel.
> ...


It seems that I failed to make clear my thought about.
I don´t say that said patterns are false. I am saying that are near the same, under other social conditions, as the ones felt by and for partners in a wide range of relationships.
When there is an intent to show intrinsic causal differences and cos scarcity of better foundatios the theorists end indirectly making refference to the moral status of each one.
Look at the refferences to the brain chemistry. Of course valid. But said chemistry is as well present in attraction, being in love, passion.
Also there in adictions, fanatic believes and other disorders? True.
Thats how nature use their restricted resources to build both ill and good things. 
But is this specially related to limerence and not to other emotional states?
Dubious.

So IMO is still about WHOM you choose.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So as to get back on subject of this thread, If you want in on that discussion about male/female violence, here is the thread it was thoroughly hashed over. I searched for my post where I found the interview where Geller recanted. Go up above that for the rest of the stats, etc.
> 
> 
> https://www.talkaboutmarriage.com/threads/female-to-male-violence.444522/page-10#post-20433631


Pretty sure it was someone other than Geller. The guy was a professor at the University of New Hampshire, I think. Died recently. The study was characterized as exhaustive. Never recanted as far as I know.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> No doubt.
> 
> It would be an interesting study if I could stomach it.
> 
> ...


For sure....that is disgusting. I was a high school teacher before I became an actuary and I thought they were gross little boys.

In that case I think they really don't believe anything will come of it because historically they haven't been punished nearly as much as the men. And you still have this idea among many people that it's not harmful and the boy is lucky.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> For sure....that is disgusting. I was a high school teacher before I became an actuary and I thought they were gross little boys.
> 
> In that case I think they really don't believe anything will come of it because historically they haven't been punished nearly as much as the men. And you still have this idea among many people that it's not harmful and the boy is lucky.


Gross little boys huh?😉. I was thinking more along the lines of victims but I get what you're saying.🙂


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

It's also called being a cheater.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

thunderchad said:


> It's also called being a cheater.


limerence? plenty of people experience and never cheat. but yes, a lot of cheaters exhibit it.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> its just a word to describe the kind of cognitive dissonance involved in "the fog".


And "the fog" is something promoted by "the limerence"....
A bit circular.
What takes us out of self reference reasoning is the focus on the intrinsic meaning of facts. 
And those facts are IMO that, just as Shakespeare´s Hamlet and a sales catalog are written with the same letters, the difference is not in the set of typographic characters as neither in the almost same brain chemistry but elsewhere.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ElOtro said:


> And "the fog" is something promoted by "the limerence"....
> A bit circular.
> What takes us out of self reference reasoning is the focus on the intrinsic meaning of facts.
> And those facts are IMO that, just as Shakespeare´s Hamlet and a sales catalog are written with the same letters, the difference is not in the set of typographic characters as neither in the almost same brain chemistry but elsewhere.


i still have no idea what you are trying to say. that its pointless to come up with a word for it?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

promoted by... huh? what is promoting what?


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> promoted by... huh? what is promoting what?


Who knows? That are the perils of circular definitions.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> In Summary : You need that lawyer quick!!


lol. I was in contact with lawyer this past week


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> i still have no idea what you are trying to say. that its pointless to come up with a word for it?


That said word provides no additional meaning.
And if that is all, it would be a case of language redundance.
But.........using a specific word for what is not so specific may blind us by attributing to it causes that are not necessarily there.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ElOtro said:


> That said word provides no additional meaning.
> And if that is all, it would be a case of language redundance.
> But.........using a specific word for what is not so specific may blind us by attributing to it causes that are not necessarily there.


it DOES have a specific meaning. it is a word that describes a situation... cognitive dissonance and emotions, etc, happens elsewhere. true. but limerence is specifically when it happens in new romantic relationships. 

does it need more meaning to be useful? its easier to just say a word than to describe the whole definition.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> does it need more meaning to be useful?


Yes indeed.
What is needed is to specify what situation is the one described.
And to do it in a way that makes it fit it as different to other situations IF they are really unlike regarding _*those*_ feelings and no other factors only implicitly assumed.

Let´s use a rough example.
Marriages and LTR get and stay together for a bunch of reasons (so if they should as if not).
Some of them are known as mutual attraction, desire, love, being in love. While there may be not so good ones.
And the concept of limerence is rarely used to describe this with one word. Others are used.
But limerence is a word of choice for other romantic / sexual / emotional relationships like affairs. 
I agree that there are differences, usually stong ones.
But is limerence a good description of such differences?

To say it in other way....
It´s not so rare to hear / read said by others to a BS: Your spouse loves you. What remains for the AP is...is...(uhm, ahhh...) limerence!
Uh?
Why not supercalifragilisticexpialidocious?

.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> but limerence is specifically when it happens in _*new*_ romantic relationships.


Defined that way limerence souldn´t be so frequent in years long infidelities, right?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> it really is like a drug addiction. it can happen to anyone, and *can even happen within an established relationship*. if someone can figure out how to trigger dopamine responses, they can trigger it. the actions that trigger those dopamine dumps can change, but that is really all it is.


THIS is the operative point....you can be married, and thru your own actions and desires, form this Limerance with YOUR OWN SPOUSE!

You do NOT need to go find some cheater to form it with!!!


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ElOtro said:


> Defined that way limerence souldn´t be so frequent in years long infidelities, right?


Correct. Limerence almost excludes the possibility of a years long affairs by the nature of being so obsessive. 

Those really shouldn't be described that way, because it's not the same thing.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> THIS is the operative point....you can be married, and thru your own actions and desires, form this Limerance with YOUR OWN SPOUSE!
> 
> You do NOT need to go find some cheater to form it with!!!


It's possible, yes, but it is rare. It typically only happens when someone makes a dramatic change in their own lives. For instance, when someone loses a huge amount of weight. 

Anxiety and uncertainty is part of the definition.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Sounds a bit like demonic possession…


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Sounds a bit like demonic possession…


Kinda does. It's scary how easily people seem to fall into it.

The fact that there's actually a subreddit for limerence is concerning. But browsing through it, it just has me convinced as another subtle, even more romanticized guise for cheating.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

I don’t believe “limerance” for someone other than your spouse is some sort of fateful curse that comes someone’s way. It takes hold due to an ability to rationalize boundary erosion, or is more likely to occur when boundaries have never been discussed.

It really shouldn’t have a chance to take hold.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

thissucks7788 said:


> Hi again!
> I have been reading a lot about limerence. (Both on and off of this sight) Boy is this an interesting phenomenon! Let me start by saying this absolutely positively does NOT excuse bad behavior at all whatsoever-- At.All. (Ok, now that we got that out of the way) It does however explain why people absolutely explode their lives and act completely irrationally. Strangely enough, I believe my husband has one way limerence (which apparently seems to exist also). Just wondering about others thoughts on this concept. For anyone who is wondering... I believe this is often referred to as "the fog" or the insane infatuation that causes a person to behave in strange and irrational ways. Basically blowing up their lives in the hope to be with this fantasy, soulmate like person or so they think caused by addiction like chemicals in their brain. Horrifying/devastating to go through as the BS but an interesting concept.


The essence of why people blow up their lives is because they are tired of trying to pretend to be something they are not. It's like an oxygen atom that becomes an oxygen ion through increasing it's energy and allowing it to hold on to an extra electron becoming something that it is not. The moment you no longer feed the oxygen ion that extra energy, it will lose its extra electron and revert back to being an atom.

People who were not raised to be monogamous or are used to living a more permissive lifestyle before they married, will always struggle with trying to the life they know they ought to live. Without that extra support from the spouse to help them transform, it will be a genuine struggle for them to transition from a polyamorous lifestyle to being with a single spouse.

Christ gave a parable on this when he talked about the new and old wine bags. Bags that were not seasoned to hold new wine will burst as the new wine ferments and becomes older wine, but the bags that were seasoned to hold old wine will be fine. Somebody trying to live a life that they are not equipped to live will be miserable and will eventually self-destruct.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Admittedly, I am disappointed that this thread is not about limericks. 
I had some dirty ones at the ready.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Gross little boys huh?😉. I was thinking more along the lines of victims but I get what you're saying.🙂


Yes, of course they are victims. I would've gone through the roof if sone teacher had slept with one of my boys.

But from my perspective as a grown woman (early 30's at the time) I found nothing sexually appealing about them 😅

I required a grown ass man even back then 😊


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yes, of course they are victims. I would've gone through the roof if sone teacher had slept with one of my boys.
> 
> But from my perspective as a grown woman (early 30's at the time) I found nothing sexually appealing about them 😅
> 
> I required a grown ass man even back then 😊


You don't like pencils?


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

jonty30 said:


> Admittedly, I am disappointed that this thread is not about limericks.
> I had some dirty ones at the ready.


LOL. You can make up a limerick about limerence


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Cheaters are always going to find something to justify or excuse their actions. This is nothing new. Coming up with a new word to describe a certain situation doesn't change that.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

sure when someone shacks up with a cheating partner, it is hard to come back from that.

BUT, i will repeat this: why not cause this "Limerance" with_ your own spouse?_
the right combination of renewed sex, buying her sexy things to wear, dispelling any body image issues, dating each other again, going out dancing.........can spark it up again.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> sure when someone shacks up with a cheating partner, it is hard to come back from that.
> 
> BUT, i will repeat this: why not cause this "Limerance" with_ your own spouse?_
> the right combination of renewed sex, buying her sexy things to wear, dispelling any body image issues, dating each other again, going out dancing.........can spark it up again.


What if the husband does not want to wear sexy things, lingerie etc?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Megaforce said:


> What if the husband does not want to wear sexy things, lingerie etc?


why not?
that would be offensive to all the transgender men/women, and certainly not woke!


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> I don’t believe “limerance” for someone other than your spouse is some sort of fateful curse that comes someone’s way. It takes hold due to an ability to rationalize boundary erosion, or is more likely to occur when boundaries have never been discussed.
> 
> It really shouldn’t have a chance to take hold.


I would imagine that just about all of us have experienced falling in love, perhaps multiple times throughout our lives. Yet, it did not cause the abandonment of values, breaking goes, injuring others.
It takes a certain type of person tut o be willing to inflict this abuse on others. To lie so much. To expose others to STD.
So, limerance, infatuation, whatever, it is not some irresistible force and a mature, evolved person with empathy and integrity does not act on it. It is not as if the cheater was exposed to some extraordinary temptation or force. This is something all of us have been exposed to. Cheaters, simply, seem to have no desire to avoid acting on it.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Megaforce said:


> and a mature, evolved person with empathy and integrity does not act on it.


temptation is all about.
it is FALLING for that temptation that is wrong.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> why not?
> that would be offensive to all the transgender men/women, and certainly not woke!


Individual tastes should not offend transgendered folks.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> temptation is all about.
> it is FALLING for that temptation that is wrong.


Right. We are all subject to temptation. The disordered, routinely, give in to it, because they are not restrained by empathy or integrity.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> sure when someone shacks up with a cheating partner, it is hard to come back from that.
> 
> BUT, i will repeat this: why not cause this "Limerance" with_ your own spouse?_
> the right combination of renewed sex, buying her sexy things to wear, dispelling any body image issues, dating each other again, going out dancing.........can spark it up again.


The problem with this is that you are missing the point about what limerence actually is. If it's missing the obsessive fear of uncertainty, then it isn't limerence. Limerence isn't just good feelings, it is also the fear of negative ones. Hence why it is generally only used for _new_ relationships. 

The only way to produce that state in an _established_ relationship is to introduce fear of uncertainty _along with_ the highs.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> The problem with this is that you are missing the point about what limerence actually is. If it's missing the obsessive fear of uncertainty, then it isn't limerence. Limerence isn't just good feelings, it is also the fear of negative ones. Hence why it is generally only used for _new_ relationships.
> 
> The only way to produce that state in an _established_ relationship is to introduce fear of uncertainty _along with_ the highs.


i was thinking in terms of marital sexual things. 
you have a boring sex life, and the frequency is dying.
then one of you says "hey i did not sign up for this", and starts trying to jump start that.
and the "new stuff", the dangerous stuff, could be kinky new "taboo" sex acts.

if taboo and danger is needed for this lilmerance, just go kinky with your current partner

that is why i shake my head about threads on here that say "i caught my husband watching porn, and should divorce him". those marriages do not have a prayer of rekindling some limerance....total risk averse


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

thissucks7788 said:


> LOL. You can make up a limerick about limerence


Challenge accepted.

A lawyer once had a client
Whose wife wanted a divorce but he was defiant
He met with an ex for a limerence.
Because he wanted to reminiscence
His divorce would make him poor, but the wife self-reliant.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Not sure if it has been mentioned here already, but limerence is very similar to OCD. I think it has even been called Relationship OCD. Limerence involves obsessive and intrusive thoughts that make it difficult to do and think about anything else. I personally have some OCD tendencies, more on the obsessive side of things. I've had to work at keeping under control and not let certain things take over my life. In many instances I've been able to channel it in a direction that has worked to my advantage, but many times I've felt like I was getting close to the edge of going overboard and had to reign it in. There have been times where I've felt like I was approaching a state of limerence with my own wife at various points throughout our marriage. At least that is what it felt like to me. 

Just thinking out loud, maybe this is why I've always avoided putting myself in a position where I may get to comfortable and too close with another woman.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Not sure if it has been mentioned here already, but limerence is very similar to OCD. I think it has even been called Relationship OCD. Limerence involves obsessive and intrusive thoughts that make it difficult to do and think about anything else. I personally have some OCD tendencies, more on the obsessive side of things. I've had to work at keeping under control and not let certain things take over my life. In many instances I've been able to channel it in a direction that has worked to my advantage, but many times I've felt like I was getting close to the edge of going overboard and had to reign it in. There have been times where I've felt like I was approaching a state of limerence with my own wife at various points throughout our marriage. At least that is what it felt like to me.
> 
> Just thinking out loud, maybe this is why I've always avoided putting myself in a position where I may get to comfortable and too close with another woman.


does there have to be "a feeling of risk" in order for you to form this limerance with your wife?

or is the need for "danger" not a real requirement?


I was wondering if you just went mountain hiking, took a cruise to the galapogous islands, went road tripping in some out of the way corner of the world....if that element of danger led to re-estabilishing limerance with your spouse.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> does there have to be "a feeling of risk" in order for you to form this limerance with your wife?
> 
> or is the need for "danger" not a real requirement?
> 
> ...


I think risk and danger of a sort could be a trigger. I can't remember the details of the past instances, but the latest one was 5 or 6 years ago and seemed to be triggered by us about to be empty nesters. I was afraid of what would happen once we no longer had the kids and all their activities acting as a glue for our relationship. Even though we will always be parents, I was worried about the viability of us primarily just being a couple again. As it turns out we are awesome together as "just" a couple. Even now though, I wonder was that the natural progression that would have happened or was it, at least partially, due to my obsessive focus on our relationship?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think risk and danger of a sort could be a trigger. I can't remember the details of the past instances, but the latest one was 5 or 6 years ago and seemed to be triggered by us about to be empty nesters. I was afraid of what would happen once we no longer had the kids and all their activities acting as a glue for our relationship. Even though we will always be parents, I was worried about the viability of us primarily just being a couple again. As it turns out we are awesome together as "just" a couple. Even now though, I wonder was that the natural progression that would have happened or was it, at least partially, due to my obsessive focus on our relationship?


hmmm
might be a key to restarting a flailing sex life in marriage....add some danger and risk, and then see if the sex life can be stoked also


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> hmmm
> might be a key to restarting a flailing sex life in marriage....add some danger and risk, and then see if the sex life can be stoked also


Interesting thought. I think it would require one of them to have a propensity to have obsessive tendencies, otherwise it may trigger no changes. I also think you still need a willing partner too. Otherwise you may just end up smothering them with all the new/renewed attention.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


thissucks7788 said:



I have been reading a lot about limerence. (Both on and off of this sight) Boy is this an interesting phenomenon! Let me start by saying this absolutely positively does NOT excuse bad behavior at all whatsoever-- At.All. (Ok, now that we got that out of the way) It does however explain why people absolutely explode their lives and act completely irrationally. Strangely enough, I believe my husband has one way limerence (which apparently seems to exist also). Just wondering about others thoughts on this concept. For anyone who is wondering... I believe this is often referred to as "the fog" or the insane infatuation that causes a person to behave in strange and irrational ways. Basically blowing up their lives in the hope to be with this fantasy, soulmate like person or so they think caused by addiction like chemicals in their brain. Horrifying/devastating to go through as the BS but an interesting concept.

Click to expand...

*We all experience limerance in our lives to an extent; but in order for a married person to *GET* to that stage with someone else, they first have to make many, many decisions to cross that line - and you can't blame THAT on 'limerance.'

I honestly think "fog" is more of a self-soothing term betrayed spouses tell themselves is the reason their cheater did what he/she did - otherwise, they'd have to face the fact that their cheater CHOSE to do everything they did. And it's easier to think "the fog" was responsible for their cheater if the cheater actually ran off with their affair partner - it was all due to "the fog."

The "fog" nonsense you hear so much about on certain infidelity boards is completely overused to explain away just all manner of bad cheater behavior. They blame "fog" for *everything* their cheater does and for stuff their cheater might not do for another couple of years. If they catch their cheater still in the same affair 2 years later, it's because the cheater is *"still in the fog."* LOL..., yeah, sure he is. If their cheater is still lying to them 6 months or even 3.5 years after D-Day (and most cheaters ARE still lying - it's all about CYA folks), they'll ask each other, _"is he continuing to lie to me because he's still foggy?"_ LOL...and everyone will gather 'round and support her, telling her, "yes, he's *still* foggy and he likely needs MORE therapy." 🤣

Honestly, if it weren't so pitiful over on certain infidelity boards, I'd actually laugh.


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

jonty30 said:


> Challenge accepted.
> 
> A lawyer once had a client
> Whose wife wanted a divorce but he was defiant
> ...


I love it!! Huge props for massive creativity!!!!! Extra points for finding a word to go with limerence!


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Not sure if it has been mentioned here already, but limerence is very similar to OCD. I think it has even been called Relationship OCD. Limerence involves obsessive and intrusive thoughts that make it difficult to do and think about anything else. I personally have some OCD tendencies, more on the obsessive side of things. I've had to work at keeping under control and not let certain things take over my life. In many instances I've been able to channel it in a direction that has worked to my advantage, but many times I've felt like I was getting close to the edge of going overboard and had to reign it in. There have been times where I've felt like I was approaching a state of limerence with my own wife at various points throughout our marriage. At least that is what it felt like to me.
> 
> Just thinking out loud, maybe this is why I've always avoided putting myself in a position where I may get to comfortable and too close with another woman.


So smart of you that if you know you have the tendency that you create your own boundary.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> The "fog" nonsense you hear so much about on certain infidelity boards is completely overused to explain away just all manner of bad cheater behavior. They blame "fog" for *everything* their cheater does and for stuff their cheater might not do for another couple of years. If they catch their cheater still in the same affair 2 years later, it's because the cheater is *"still in the fog."* LOL..., yeah, sure he is. If their cheater is still lying to them 6 months or even 3.5 years after D-Day (and most cheaters ARE still lying - it's all about CYA folks), they'll ask each other, _"is he continuing to lie to me because he's still foggy?"_ LOL...and everyone will gather 'round and support her, telling her, "yes, he's *still* foggy and he likely needs MORE therapy." 🤣
> 
> Honestly, if it weren't so pitiful over on certain infidelity boards, I'd actually laugh.


oh the FOG is real.

it is just a chemical release of sex hormones you get when you are with someone you are strongly sexually attracted to. you do not think clearly, are enthralled by that person, want to take risks.

it is NOT in any way an excuse to cheat. 
and it is not necessarily only for cheaters....many married people have that thrill too.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Talker67 said:


> hmmm
> might be a key to restarting a flailing sex life in marriage....add some danger and risk, and then see if the sex life can be stoked also




Try skydiving from the bedroom ceiling fan and let us know how she responds.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> We all experience limerance in our lives to an extent; but in order for a married person to *GET* to that stage with someone else, they first have to make many, many decisions to cross that line - and you can't blame THAT on 'limerance.'
> 
> I honestly think "fog" is more of a self-soothing term betrayed spouses tell themselves is the reason their cheater did what he/she did - otherwise, they'd have to face the fact that their cheater CHOSE to do everything they did. And it's easier to think "the fog" was responsible for their cheater if the cheater actually ran off with their affair partner - it was all due to "the fog."
> 
> ...


It seems very hard for some BS to accept that their cheating partner has betrayed them because he or she prefers the AP over them. This could be for a variety of reasons. The cheater has assessed the risk and cost of pursuing his or her object of desire and decided it is worth it. If caught, consequences seem to be the main reason the cheater wants to stay with the BS vs actually desiring the BS as much as the AP.
And, as you mention, some BS attach themselves to concepts like " the fog" or limerance because doing so allows them to avoid facing the reality that the cheater does not really love or desire them.
I had to accept the truth. Does not mean that I agree the OM was better than me in any meaningful way. But, apparently, this is how my XW assessed him. She was not in a fog, she just miscalculated and had buyer's remorse down the road. She was thinking clearly but her analysis was off as she failed to consider all factors.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> Try skydiving from the bedroom ceiling fan and let us know how she responds.


What's left of her!


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> oh the FOG is real.
> 
> it is just a chemical release of sex hormones you get when you are with someone you are strongly sexually attracted to. you do not think clearly, are enthralled by that person, want to take risks.
> 
> ...


If it is real, then it only affects people with extremely undeveloped personalities, IMO. I believe that most of us, especially in the early phase of being attracted, experience strong chemical reactions. But, not enough to overpower a conscience or decent value system.
When I fell for my XW, I was still not susceptible to betraying others, doing a lot of lying, scamming people etc. The attraction feelings were independent of my adherence to my moral code, not even associated with my moral code.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

@farsidejunky introduced to the term a few years back.

Like most terms there is the practical definition, and there is a spectrum revolving around how it is displayed or experienced. 

I often refer to the state of limerance, as creating a 'bliss bubble'. An extra-planar space in which the relationship exists and thrives that has little to no, tether to reality.

Introduced the woman that I am dating to the term after she described how her husband of 22 years blew up their marriage, and walked out on his kids just before the pandemic ramped up. 

Ex wife #1 distinctly went through a period of limerance, when we were separated, and she was undoubtedly on extremely emotionally fragile ground. She anchored onto her AP and hung in there as if her life depended on it. She was quite literally a different person. Thankfully for her, that passed. 

I do think it is an easy sale to make to oneself that all of your problems will be solved by magically believing that the relationship you idealizing is driven by the power of the cosmos ... right up until it becomes exactly like EVERY other relationship you have ever had.
I also believe this is why Narcissists or other manipulative personality clusters can so readily provide fertile ground for limerance to flourish, in which they do not share, but provides them with the attention they require.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

I´m back or something like.
I remembered that some years ago I purchased the book where the word limerence was coined / presented and the concept behind was somehow developed.
By then my reading of it was partial.
I´m now taking some more time whithin my constraints to take a better look at the author idea.
I´ll be back again to tell about.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

from a man's point of view, this song says it all


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## thissucks7788 (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> from a man's point of view, this song says it all


I like when it can be explained in a song....lol.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Deejo said:


> @farsidejunky introduced to the term a few years back.
> 
> Like most terms there is the practical definition, and there is a spectrum revolving around how it is displayed or experienced.
> 
> ...


It's funny how TAM can become a mechanism for passing institutional knowledge, eg. the cheaters script, the thermostat, etc.

I say that because Bandit was the first to bring the term limerence to my attention. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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