# Marriage - What's in it other than grief?



## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

I've been married for about 15 months and I have to ask:

Why the hell do people do it?

The only reason I can see is to parent children.

It's an endless cycle of conflict and love, slowly I'm finding the conflicts drive away any interest in love or intimacy.

There's nothing in this? The marriage ceremony; reception, cake, dancing, photos present and create a false hope.

I've known this woman for 6 years, but never dreamed marriage would be so unhappy.

I'd rather be sort of happy on my own, than completely miserable half the time.

We've seen a counselor about 8 times, but all the advice in the world is useless if the woman ignores it.

Somehow I feel conned quite frankly 

It's easy to see why the divorce rate is about 60%, I'm surprised it's not higher


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

You married the wrong woman.

My husband and I have been very happily married for 13 years, together 14. He's my best friend and I can't imagine life without him. 

We never argue, instead we discuss and compromise. We both have our hobbies and things we like to do apart, yet we still spend a great deal of time together. I would be married to my husband whether we had children or not. We are extremely compatible and have the same interests and views in life.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

FrancisM said:


> It's an endless cycle of conflict and love, slowly I'm finding the conflicts drive away any interest in love or intimacy.


Francis, welcome to the TAM forum. I agree with I'mInLove that you likely married the wrong woman. It would be helpful if you would be more specific about what the "endless cycle" looks like. Are you seeing, for example, a woman who suddenly flips between adoring you and devaluing you? If so, are those "flips" between Jekyll and Hyde triggered by minor things you say or do (or that she imagines you do)? Are the arguments usually over things so minor that, several days later, neither of you can recall what they were about? Did you not see any red flags of such behavior in the nearly five years preceding your marriage?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Cake, dancing, and photos have very little to do with marriage. If you were expecting something other than perpetual drama and thankless labor, you joined the wrong club. Think it's fun now? Wait till you're a father. Whether it's "fun" or not, depends on your expectations. I expect almost nothing so I'm rarely surprised. Here's the job description: Work your fanny off, support others, and die. Find tiny windows of pleasure for yourself; an occasional cold beer, a Harley, dogs to pet, kids to hug. Learn to let go of resentment and tune out of drama when you can. Learn to have great sex with a crazy woman who gets on your very last nerve. They're all crazy, so you might as well pick one and stick with her. The mule isn't crazy about plowing but he's a mule and that's what the job is. You never saw one tap-dancing.


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## FrancisM (Jun 15, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Francis, welcome to the TAM forum. I agree with I'mInLove that you likely married the wrong woman. It would be helpful if you would be more specific about what the "endless cycle" looks like. Are you seeing, for example, a woman who suddenly flips between adoring you and devaluing you? If so, are those "flips" between Jekyll and Hyde triggered by minor things you say or do (or that she imagines you do)? Are the arguments usually over things so minor that, several days later, neither of you can recall what they were about? Did you not see any red flags of such behavior in the nearly five years preceding your marriage?


- flipping? yes, over days or several hours
- minor ? Yes, She cannot accept criticism about herself, even gentle constructive criticism
- minor? Yes, mostly, probably 90%
- red flags? Yes, and a warning or two, 'love' affected my vision.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Francis, have you seen most of the following behaviors occurring strongly and regularly (e.g., every 2 or 3 weeks) over the past five years?

1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
7. Low self esteem;
8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
Francis, if most of those behaviors have been occurring at a strong and persistent level, I suggest you read my post that explains them in more detail. It is located at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.


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## mtpromises (May 27, 2013)

Marriage is definitely no walk in the park. It's hard, it's demanding, and it can definitely be complicated. Whenever I hear people talking about getting married I want to tell them to run like hell in the opposite direction, but that would be a self-centered thing to do because some marriage work out even in today's society.

You have to remember that every relationship has a Honeymoon period and some couples experience longer Honeymoon periods than others. If you stick together after this time period is done then that's true love. 

You've been to therapy 8 times already. Is this a relationship you want to save? What conflicts seem to be constant? Who is your wife willing to listen to in order to see that you're upset?


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