# Wife left for a woman, losing my kids to her.



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

Four months ago my wife of 9 years cheated on me with a woman. My initial reaction was lashing out, we have 3 kids together and I couldn't believe she would just throw away our relationship like that.

I tried my hardest to get her back but she wasn't having any of it so I just gave up. I can't compete with the woman she cheated on me with and it makes me feel pathetic. She was an artillery soldier for a while and is now a firefighter. My 10 year old son has met her numerous times and really looks up her, she makes me feel like less of a man and I hate it.



Yesterday my two younger children came home from visiting their mom and instead of calling the woman by her name they called her "ma". They have only known her for a short while and they already see her as their mother. I never wanted them to raise my kids and I honestly don't agree with two women raising children but there is nothing I can do about that. I am also still in love with my wife. I tried going on dates but I can't find someone like my wife. She was perfect and no one can come close to her. I always find myself checking her Facebook page scrolling through pictures of her and her new "girlfriend" with my kids. I feel as if this new woman has taken over their minds, they no longer eat meat or animal products because of her and I asked them if they wanted to go to the zoo when the weather gets better, they told me that zoos were bad and they should go to a sanctuary(what the ****).



My daughter is also getting a lot more active, which is great but she says she wants to be a soldier, firefighter or police officer when she grows up. She is young and could easily change her mind but no one wants to think about their daughter getting deployed. They also said that they wanted to spend next Christmas with their mom. I feel as if I am quickly losing my kids, if this is what it is like after four months what will happen as time goes on. What would you do in my situation? 

*My oldest son also said he wants to live with my ex her and her gf. I asked my two younger kids if that was what they wanted and they said yes. He also does everything with her and no longer spends time with me, in my kid's eyes this woman is some bad ass ex soldier. She took them to her firehouse and let them sit in the truck and all that. My son made a comment that really hurt me, he said that they feel like his true parents and their house is "home". They also have two kids at their house and my son like the big family vibe he gets when he's there.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Report her to the chief fire officer.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wow. Tough situation.

I have to say, my sister is a lesbian, and just about every kid, and most adults, think she is a super gal. She is a fun person to be with, and has always been a respected leader.

I know it sounds crazy, but would it be possible to just bury the hatchet with your wife, genuinely wish her and her new partner well, and try to be friends with them? Maybe spend holidays together, if they would allow it, for the kids' sake?

After all, "If you can't beat 'em, join em."


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Just like any thing new...it interesting and exciting. It will wear off and in time your kids and even your wife will see this women who she realy is.

Face it....how moral and what kind of character would do this?

This fantasy will get old and this women will go find someone else tp phuck with.

Give it time wish them all the best and smile....in time they will"all" come crawling back to you blaming you for letting them get used by such an evil person.

You need to learn the tool to start loving your self and other will follow you seeing someone worth being around.

Again give it time and wait a see how real life problems settle in on this relationship and before you know it...for some reason you start seeing your kids more....then in a short while you wife will come around also and realize what a big mistake she made.

In short, don't push your kids away...they will need you real bad when this relationship goes south.

Some of the greatest challanges bring the best rewards. so hang in there and wait and watch......knowing its to good to be true and it's just a matter of time it all falls apart and this affair isn't all rainbows and unicorns.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

jld said:


> Wow. Tough situation.
> 
> I have to say, my sister is a lesbian, and just about every kid, and most adults, think she is a super gal. She is a fun person to be with, and has always been a respected leader.
> 
> ...


OP, this is extremely emasculating advice. I don't recommend it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

jld said:


> Wow. Tough situation.
> 
> I have to say, my sister is a lesbian, and just about every kid, and most adults, think she is a super gal. She is a fun person to be with, and has always been a respected leader.
> 
> ...


It's only been 9 months.....the only thing with regards to a hatchet OP wants is to use it on this POS that took his family.

When's the lawyer appointment? 

You better cover your ass and protect your self.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Can you sue the POS for allianation of affection in your state?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Report her to the chief fire officer.


Report her for what?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

jld said:


> Wow. Tough situation.
> 
> I have to say, my sister is a lesbian, and just about every kid, and most adults, think she is a super gal. She is a fun person to be with, and has always been a respected leader.
> 
> ...


I disagree here. This woman stole his wife away, and he's supposed to go there and smile and make nice? No way you would have recommended this advice if she was shacking up with a guy. I assume your sister never destroyed a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

OP I feel for you. You were dealt a terrible hand. 

Don't give up on your kids. Make your home a loving,nurturing environment for them. Kids are fickle. The other place is new and exciting. That will wear off. Do not take their comments personally. When they are older they will understand what happened.

Stay off her Facebook page. Stop torturing yourself.

Keep dating. There IS someone out there for you that will make you forget about your "perfect" wife. Someone who won't treat you so disrespectfully. Before you know it, you will find the perfect girl. And with any luck your kids will love her too 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I disagree here. This woman stole his wife away, and he's supposed to go there and smile and make nice? No way you would have recommended this advice if she was shacking up with a guy. I assume your sister never destroyed a marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What this is is parental alienation and he has to see a lawyer like yesterday because well he is a male.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> Four months ago my wife of 9 years cheated on me with a woman. My initial reaction was lashing out, we have 3 kids together and I couldn't believe she would just throw away our relationship like that.
> 
> I tried my hardest to get her back but she wasn't having any of it so I just gave up. I can't compete with the woman she cheated on me with and it makes me feel pathetic. She was an artillery soldier for a while and is now a firefighter. My 10 year old son has met her numerous times and really looks up her, she makes me feel like less of a man and I hate it.
> 
> ...


Hi CarterMan.

Wow... All I can say is I am so sorry. It must be so painful, esp with your kids saying all that. 

There was something hat stood out to me in your story that was a potential red flag. It could be me being oversensitive because I pick these things up based on my own personal experience having been in a cult.

I am sensing this woman may have a "strong personality", or strong opinions, or both. Nothing inherently wrong with that of course. But it seems the transformation with your wife, and now in process with your children, has been quite rapid.

It's also unusual for children 10 and under (not unheard of bit not that common) to develop sudden moral opinions like this. I have a sis who has been vegetarian for moral reasons and she has raised her own children as vegetarian for these reasons, but would not impose this on someone else's children. I have another sis who became vegetarian for a while due to concerns over live exports but she never made her kids follow suit. For a person who is more in the step parent category (and i would not even call her that) to impose their own values on children who are not theirs is concerning to me.

When you said your kids are now calling her "ma", please know that this would be at her direction. I dare say she would have also beat you to it asking them who they want to live with more and probably coaching them as to reasons why she is a preferable option. 

With all inf presented, it seems suspicious your daughter now wants a career in one of those three categories. One thing to look up to someone and be excited about the kind of job they have, and another to make this decision while accompanied with a number of rapid changes noted above.

Now the thing about cult dynamics is that they can be found in non-cult environments and relationships. They are mind control dynamics. They van be found for eg in 1on 1 relationships (eg unhealthy therapist-client dynamics, DV relationship), a dysfunctional family unit, a country under dictatorship (of North Korea).

I'm not trying to alarm you here. I'm not saying your family is in a cult. But I do sense, based on the little information here, that something is not quite right and some of this are things I recognize from my own experience.

Getting some counselling for yourself and your children would be a valuable step, definitely sooner than later. Possibly a child psychologist for your children. 

I don't normally do this on TAM or ne forums in general, but if you like, I can inbox you with some resources, info, and contacts who can help you assess your situation and detect of this is what is happening. If you can tell me what state or country you're in I could find you someone to talk to in my cult recovery circles who understands this stuff and cannot give you'd strategies on how to counter these dynamics for your childrens sake


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

OW is working very hard to encroach on your fatherhood. Ultimately she is insecure, otherwise why would she be doing it?

She maybe fun but she is manipulative and arrogant. 

Penis envy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

She's a lesbian, yet she has to handle hoses while on the job.

Oh the irony.

Sorry CarterMan, I'm not trying to make light of your situation. I just couldn't hold it in.


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## cgiles (Dec 10, 2014)

Work on yourself, block your wife on social network.

Do the 180 with your wife, it will help you to move away from her emotionally. 

Don't fight their opinions, it will only make them move away from you. 

For the vegan diet, you should contact your wife and asks her if she plans to pay your nutrition education. Because a vegan diet for child, it's not something easy to do, which requires a lot of knowledge. 
I read Swiss hospitals are highly against this, and remind every year it's dangerous, because it can slow the child development.

The 180lists : The 180 | AFFAIRCARE

You should read this book too : https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf It will help you to be a better & stronger man. It will be very helpful. 

You should find "When I say no, I feel guilty" by manuel J smith, for learn how to be a better communicator, you will need it, for be able to explain to your child why you can not agree with OW, without sounding aggressive.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> She's a lesbian, yet she has to handle hoses while on the job.
> 
> Oh the irony.
> 
> Sorry CarterMan, I'm not trying to make light of your situation. I just couldn't hold it in.


Oh GP
where is that rodent spinning the wheel.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

The best you can do for yourself at this moment is to seek legal counsel. There is probably nothing legally that you can do to prevent your WW from having her AP live with her and having your kids expose to her. As much as this situation sucks big time, your concern should be that the OW does not pose a threat to your children's complete well being. 

Next is to start the process of emotional detachment from your WW by following *the 180 degrees*. You will probably fail many times before you master it but that is normal and every attempt will bring you close to complete emotional detachment.

And please seek help from a professional therapist to help you to process this trauma in a healthy fashion. You must heal not just for your well being but for children's as well.

Affairs thrive in a fantasy environment but once real life intrudes, the new relationship will begin to experience the same stressors that were present in the previous relationship. Same sex relationships are just as vulnerable as heterosexual relationships and just as prone to be destroyed by infidelity. 

Lastly, please remember that your children do not mean to hurt you and are just reacting like a lot of children dp, to the novelty that your WW's AP brings. If you keep being a loving father more intent on showing them love, your place in their hearts will never be replaced by a new shiny object or person.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
For the life of me, I cannot understand how people allow themselves to see one side of a situation and seem completely oblivious to the obvious. Your wife and children are smitten by this woman, an ex soldier now fireman. A person who risks their life for others and yet, in this case, she is the threat. Taking something that does not belong to her and wreaking havoc on a family are not traits to be admired. They are deviant, immoral and deserving of disdain, not worship.

Your children idolize her not because they understand the whole situation but rather because they are following their mother's lead. She is no doubt admonishing them to revere this woman as she does, ignoring the the obvious duality in her character. If this woman were truly of high moral character she would not allow herself to be the wedge in your family.

It's ironic that, as a firefighter, she is duty bound to prevent harm to others and yet, as a person, she has no such moral mandate and is "burning" your family down.

My advice is to continue to be a father to your children and take whatever steps are necessary to limit their exposure to this woman inasmuch as is legally possible. Also understand that this situation is new for them and kids are easily distracted by new. There are children at the other house so built in playmates. However, when the new wears off they will want stability and structure, things this woman and your wife cannot provide as evidenced by their actions. They care less for the kids than for themselves lest they would not tear your family apart.

As to your emasculation, this is your perception. Your WW's bad decisions are not necessarily an indicator of your masculinity but rather of her inability to think and process clearly. Her lack of intellectual ability does not make you less of a man, it makes her less of a woman.

Be strong for your kids, solid in your commitment to them and let time expose the OW and your wife for what they are. Good fortune to you and your family.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

^^^ This guy nailed it. And yes, you may feel emasculated emotionally but please do your best to remember you have done nothing wrong here, you are doing the best you can in this messed up situation and having consideration for the welfare of your children.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

Thanks for all the replies they were actually really helpful compared to other advice I was given. I invited my ex and her gf for lunch so I can talk about our situation and how we are going to move forward. I plan on bringing some stuff that you guys mentioned so I can have a better idea on her relationship with my kids.

Unfortunately I can't go to court with this. A lot stuff about my past could possibly get out and I could lose my job. There is no way my wife will turn down having the kids full time without a fight. 

I am not forgiving them or even respecting them but not talking has done us no good and it just leaves me confused and frustrated so hopefully this lunch will clear things up. 

Wish me luck.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Good luck man! Hope everything works out. Be the best dad you can for those kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You absolutely should not meet OW to discuss your children. That is matter between you and your stbx. Besides being principally wrong, it is tactical folly. You have two against one. The OW is the butch in the relationship and she would love to face you down, playing the bull. She wants to cut your nuts off and fry them in a pan to serve your stbx for dinner.

You should only discuss your children with your stbx and or via lawyers.

Stop feeling emasculated by this OW. Your children think she has great because she makes mommy very happy. But lesbian death bed is not unlikely. In any case remember that OW wants your children. Unlike a POSOM who does not want an AP's children, unless he has some of his own and wants to blend them, POSOW who is a lesbian cannot get children without a adoption, step parenting or sperm donation.

Someday somatic cells will be used to fertilize human eggs to produce biological IVF daughters to lesbian couples but the science and consumer health care system are not quite there yet.

Your children love you way more than OW. Right now they are confused. 

You need to be there for them. Get all the custody you can 50/50 or more. Do not spend time watching TV with your kids. Get rid of the TV. Spend your time with your children playing sports and board games. Take photos and edit them. Teach them photoshop. Teach them to cook.

If you let them watch TV, they will always think about OW playing with them. She is investing real time with as people to seduce them. You have give your children more quality time. You should do it anyway. 

Get them into music.

Once you are into a stable 50/50 custody situation and feel better about life, you will date. You will eventually replace the WW with a better woman.

Don't forget there is a huge pro gay family lobby ready to destroy you. Don't ever say anything that could be interpreted as homophobic.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Carterman, Longwalk just gave you about the best advice you will ever get.

DO NOT MEET WITH OW TO TALK ABOUT YOUR KIDS.

That's between you and the morally broken woman you accidentally married and had kids with.

Meeting with her will make you feel even more emasculated than you already do. Keeping it between you and your wife is a good start on finding your testicles again.

Every single other things Longwalk said is 1000% excellent advice as well.

If I had to add something, it would be to go find a hobby and indulge in it at length and with passion. Get really good at it, whatever it turns out to be. Being knowledgeable and enthusiastic about something, ANYTHING, is a great source of pride and self confidence.

You should also look into individual counseling, because, let's face it, something in you causes you topic really bad women to have relationships with. You need to understand that so you don't make the same kind of mistake next time.

Another poster mentioned No More Mr. Nice Guy and a book about feeling guilty when you say "no." Haven't read the second one, but it sounds like it would be useful for you. So do some self-help reading in your spare time, man.

You are going to get better. It's just going to take some time and hard work.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> You absolutely should not meet OW to discuss your children. That is matter between you and your stbx. Besides being principally wrong, it is tactical folly. You have two against one. The OW is the butch in the relationship and she would love to face you down, playing the bull. She wants to cut your nuts off and fry them in a pan to serve your stbx for dinner.
> 
> You should only discuss your children with your stbx and or via lawyers.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't consider her "butch" my ex actually seems more dominant in the relationship than she is. I also don't want to ring any lawyers into this situation, making this a legal custody battle will be a waste of time and money on my side and I can potentially lose my job. My wife knows things that nobody else knows and those secrets can ruin me. 

The OW does have kids of her own (adopted) which plays a big role on why my kids like their house better. I unfortunately don't see any other way to get to the bottom of this without actually talking.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are sailing into waters with rocks below the surface and no one on deck to shout for you to change course.

Your wife is more butch than the fire woman/soldier gal? Yikes.

How are you splitting custody now?

You should definitely not discuss how your children are rejecting you in favor of OW. That will only encourage them to increase the pressure to destroy you.

You have to get a strong male role model to mentor you IRL.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Report her for what?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The fact that she is breaking up a marriage might give pause for thought to the Fire Chief.

It will go on her record.

Fire officers need to know that they can rely on their fellow fire crew members for their life. 

Could they trust someone like her?

It's not likely.

Besides which, next time there is any query or a doubt about her, her performance, etc., they'll look on her record and see the fact that she is a home wrecker.

It'll leave a bad taste in their mouths.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

CarterMan said:


> I wouldn't consider her "butch" my ex actually seems more dominant in the relationship than she is. I also don't want to ring any lawyers into this situation, making this a legal custody battle will be a waste of time and money on my side and I can potentially lose my job. My wife knows things that nobody else knows and those secrets can ruin me.
> 
> The OW does have kids of her own (adopted) which plays a big role on why my kids like their house better. I unfortunately don't see any other way to get to the bottom of this without actually talking.


I think you are taking the wise and mature, not to mention _realistic _ path, in choosing to talk with them. Your and your kids' lives have changed in a fundamental way.

Those secrets that can ruin you -- don't you think you could use some counseling for them?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> The fact that she is breaking up a marriage might give pause for thought to the Fire Chief.
> 
> It will go on her record.
> 
> ...


If fire chiefs started disciplining and firing firefighters for dating someone who is married, half the city would burn down due to understaffed firehouses. Chief couldn't care less that one of his firefighters was cheating with a married woman.

OP, I agree with the advice here- do not meet with the OW to discuss child care. Is there a reason your wife won't meet with you alone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> You are sailing into waters with rocks below the surface and no one on deck to shout for you to change course.
> 
> Your wife is more butch than the fire woman/soldier gal? Yikes.
> 
> ...


Haha, neither of them are butch. The OW is very attractive as is my ex and that honestly makes me more pissed for some reason. 

Right now my ex and her gf get the kids most weekends but oldest son says he wants to spend weekdays there as well so he can feel more like a proper family with them. He says he likes living with ALL his brothers and sisters and living with me is nice but it doesn't feel like a family, not even when me and his mother were together. I think he views me as the problem.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Ah. Just had a thought.

She is everything, a former soldier, a brave fire fighter, a single parent to adopted children. In fact, she is a regular heroine.

In short, she is perfection in human form.

*Too* perfect, in fact? :scratchhead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWB1U4oW4yw

Run her name/s through the Child Sex Offender registers.

And check deeper. Is she really a lesbian or a former male?


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Ah. Just had a thought.
> 
> She is everything, a former soldier, a brave fire fighter, a single parent to adopted children. In fact, she is a regular heroine.
> 
> ...


She is perfect on paper and I'm sure there are some flaws but a child molester? I have no reason to believe that, unless you were just joking.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

So CarterMan are you the problem?

Why did your wife leave you?

Did you know your wife was bisexual before you married her?

Did you catch the affair or did your wife admit yo her relationship with the OW?

And why aren't your children living with their mother during the week?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Honest;y after a while the shine starts showing signs of tarnish and the flaws, warts and scars start showing. The only thing i can tell you is to be the best parent you could be for your kids. Even though your wife really pissed you off with her betrayal you have to keep that in check around your kids because it can be turned around to look like your picking on Mom and the kids will hold that against you.

My advice is to let your wife go, get her out of your system and move on with your life. Your still having her perched on the pedestal and until you remove it, things will stay the same. 

Move on, and stop worrying. Your kids know who their dad is. Just be there for them like you always would. After a while this will all settle but not until you get rid of the anger. That can be taken care of through time.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

CarterMan said:


> Right now my ex and her gf get the kids most weekends but oldest son says he wants to spend weekdays there as well so he can feel more like a proper family with them. He says he likes living with ALL his brothers and sisters and living with me is nice but it doesn't feel like a family, not even when me and his mother were together. I think he views me as the problem.


Perhaps you, your son and your STBXWW should get together and come to an agreement that will satisfy all 3. The point is to leave a good impression with your son that you want him to be happy even if it is not with you. Show him that no matter where he resides, you still love him and will always be his dad.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

jld said:


> I think you are taking the wise and mature, not to mention _realistic _ path, in choosing to talk with them. Your and your kids' lives have changed in a fundamental way.
> 
> Those secrets that can ruin you -- don't you think you could use some counseling for them?


:iagree: with the counseling for the secrets but negotiating custody with an affair partner? The idea flies in the fact of all sound principle. No halfway normal spouse should ever be in custody negotiations with a third party involved, especially one who has a stake in the outcome.

I have a friend whose alcoholic wife was seduced by her old friend, possibly they had had sex as teens. The lesbian couple ran off from country X to country Y. The father a vocational school teacher and master carpenter was denied custody even though it was a kidnapping. He had limited visitation.

The OW was a child molester but the witness (maternal grandmother) was bullied in court by the defense lawyer. The prosecutors didn't want to fight the whole gay civil rights gang. 

After that the OW allowed her "great love" to drink herself to death. She died of acute alcoholic poisoning on the kitchen floor in the presence of her two children. This great lesbian step mom kidnapped the children again and my friend was completely cut off from his kids.

Today they are grown both reached out to him. The son first. Guess what, the lesbian step mom didn't like him and kicked him out as soon as she could. The son felt guilty for betraying his father but he had no choice. He has zero relationship with the woman who raised him.

The daughter eventually also wanted to get together with her father. She has cut the "step mom" out of her life.

I have not talked with my friend about it for fear of tearing off the scab but I can see that his daughter is a lesbian, too. FB pictures with women who wear gay pride bracelets and post about women's condoms. I am not against people being free to choose their own sexuality but was his daughter allowed to be herself?

Anytime a cheater runs off to a same sex relationship, they can count on extra sympathy in family court... okay maybe not in some very conservative counties but in general the discrimination has swung the other way.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

jld said:


> Those secrets that can ruin you -- don't you think you could use some counseling for them?


Indeed and maybe they are a contributing source of the marital and parental dissatisfaction.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

CarterMan said:


> She was perfect and no one can come close to her.


If you really feel this way Dawg, you need someone to run diagnostics on you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Just remember at lunch you are the confident male role modle for your kids no matter what.

Smile wish them the best and thank your wife for the time you had to gether and like you ...you know she will succeed in future relationships.

#1 chicks like confident guys (even if they went to the other side "9 months ago")

#2 chick get jealous easy so your old lady thinking you are looking or already with someone else will get her thinking.

My point to all this is getting your wife to think twice in what she is giving up. The more attractive you behave and positive persona you have will second guess your wife's choices.

So fake it until you make it.....your wife has to see you are happily moving on with out her. Most likely her gf will push your button to get you to react so hold back...laugh at her comments and let the gf know..."thats not how I see it".....

Remember this POS will do what ever she can to validate why your wife left you so DO NOT BY INTO IT!!!!!!

Stay calm and confident and to not take the bait this POS has to offer in making you look like the bad guy.

If it starts to get ugly you can always cut the lunch short and inform your wife it wight be best to discuss the kids between the two of you and not with your "new lover' involved.

make sure you use the word "new lover" it will bring home the fact that your wife is now looked at as a lesbian (something she may not really be facing up to in her current affair fog)

So no crying and begging. No name calling and yelling. Stay positive and make this affair as uncomfortable as possible to continue by being as attractive as possible....sure look your best...but what talking about is the guy your wife fell in love with so many years ago.....you gotta be that guy again to really get you wife to think twice and second guess her choices.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

So I just had that lunch with the both of them and I did get some insight on the OW and her relationship with the kids. 

I asked them why they thought the kids wanted to live with them. They told me that they are more "family oriented", they go for family outings, movie nights, eating dinner at the table etc. When I told them that I do this with the kids as well they just shrugged and said it's probably because it's a bigger family with them.

I directed a couple questions directly at the OW (which annoyed my ex) to see where her head was at. I asked her why the kids called her ma and why they were so willing to go vegan, I even hinted at her pushing the kids to do these things which seemed to irritate her. She told me that the kids were curious about why they didn't eat eat at her house so she answered them honestly and they didn't want to "hurt animals" either. 
She also said that the kids asked my ex what to refer to her as and she told them to refer to her as her name or mom if they wanted to. That's when the kids started calling her ma.

I finally brought up my oldest son and how I thought that she was sort of replacing me as a father to him. She told me, she doesn't force my son to do anything and if he naturally gravitates to her she is not going to push him away. She also said she isn't trying to replace me as a father but trying to be there for him as a second mother.

To be honest they were kind of pissing me off so I told them I didn't think they were going to last which made them angry. They told me they were in it for the long haul and I have to get used to them whether I like it or not. 

There was a lot more to the conversation but I don't want to drag on. If you want to know anything specific just ask.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

the guy said:


> Just remember at lunch you are the confident male role modle for your kids no matter what.
> 
> Smile wish them the best and thank your wife for the time you had to gether and like you ...you know she will succeed in future relationships.
> 
> ...


A little late but thanks, haha.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

One more thing...you really want to look your best so if she comment on how well dressed you look you can tell her you meeting someone after lunch and if you wife asks who tell its someone new and you will be meeting "her for the 1st time.

And then your wife will ask youwere you meet you can tell her on line.

Again if your wife's jealousy and even her Gf jealousy of you can be played off of in making this affair even more difficult to continue then do what you have to do to make it happen.

If you play this right the honeymoon may be over for the two of them!


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Shyt!

How did it go?

You didn't cry did you?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Was the POS being a b1tch like I predicted?


----------



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

happyman64 said:


> So CarterMan are you the problem?
> 
> Why did your wife leave you?
> 
> ...


Why did your wife leave you?

She says that she is gay. She thought that what she felt towards me was normal until she met the OW and finally felt what it was like "love" someone.

Did you know your wife was bisexual before you married her?

I thought she was 100% straight

Did you catch the affair or did your wife admit yo her relationship with the OW?

She admitted it. The OW threatened to leave her if she didn't break it off with me.

And why aren't your children living with their mother during the week?

I honestly don't really know. Once she moved out the kids just stayed with me. This has always been their home and I guess she felt guilty.


----------



## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

CarterMan said:


> The OW does have kids of her own (adopted) which plays a big role on why my kids like their house better.


Was OW with a man or women when she adopted her kids? That relationship didn't last and now she's breaking up another.


----------



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

Graywolf2 said:


> CarterMan said:
> 
> 
> > The OW does have kids of her own (adopted) which plays a big role on why my kids like their house better.
> ...


I highly doubt she was with a man. It was probably with a woman or maybe even alone?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Never tell your spouse and their affair partner wont last.....it just puts more affort into the affair.

The goal is to make the affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable to continue not add full to the fire by proving the betrayed spouse wrong.

CM, next time around you need to avoid pissing the wife off and flirt with her a little.

The goal is getting the wife to think twice in giving up the "real" family unit...not pissing her off and validating her choices.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Did you expose to your families??


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Don't spend time engaging with the AP the conversation should always be directed towards the wayward spouse not the AP. these are *your* kids the Ap should have never been involved.

But in this case the AP is such a controlling / manipulating POS you would have never been able to have a talk in the 1st placewith out her present.

This affair has fantasy fog written all over it.

I'm just not sure who will get sick of it 1st..the wayward wife or the kids.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Carterman

These two cheaters belong together.

And you really should feel disappointed with your wife.

She is a really crappy, selfish person.

Protect your kids as best you can. 

Your wife and the AP are pretty far down the road in my opinion.

And that sucks for you. Go for split custody. Do not make anything easy for them.

Because they do not deserve it.

There is a right way to split up and a wrong way.

Those two have done everything wrong IMO.

HM


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

First off, don't get into a "your relationship is not going to last" for the only thing you end up doing is pushing them closer to one another. So learn to hold your tongue regarding this issue for it is counterproductive.



CarterMan said:


> Did you catch the affair or did your wife admit yo her relationship with the OW?
> 
> She admitted it. The OW threatened to leave her if she didn't break it off with me.


This is not a good way to start a relationship. If your WW felt forced to leave you then it may sow the seeds for resentment in her with her OW. But that is their problem, not yours.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

CarterMan said:


> They told me that they are more "family oriented", they go for family outings, movie nights, eating dinner at the table etc. When I told them that I do this with the kids as well they just shrugged and said it's probably because it's a bigger family with them.
> 
> .


What a buncH of bull shyt...

How phucking concerned are you about a family unit and still go after a married chick.

If family was so phucking important then go find a "life partner" that ISN'T PHUCKING MARRIED!!!!!!!!

A bunch of selfish b1tches...I need a beer.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> If fire chiefs started disciplining and firing firefighters for dating someone who is married, half the city would burn down due to understaffed firehouses. Chief couldn't care less that one of his firefighters was cheating with a married woman.
> 
> OP, I agree with the advice here- do not meet with the OW to discuss child care. Is there a reason your wife won't meet with you alone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, he/she will not discipline her. Unless, of course, there's a threat of the local media being involved?

Besides, the matter will be placed on file and will be a psychological black mark on her record.


----------



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

Jasel said:


> Did you expose to your families??


Her family knows. They are really supportive of her and what not, which is really annoying. They are happy she is being her "true self" and they are prettv much in love with the OW.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> She is perfect on paper and I'm sure there are some flaws but a child molester? I have no reason to believe that, unless you were just joking.


I am not joking.

There are far more child female child molesters out there than is realised.

Any what do child molesters target? Women with children.

And as a good father you cannot dare be complacent with the best interests of your children.

One survey shows that 25% of sexual abuse of children was perpetrated by women, though this figure is thought to be lower than the actual figure due to several factors.

Female child molesters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Remember your children are in shock. Their family has been blown out of the water by a woman who is rescuer. She used to spraying water into people's homes and leaving them to mop up the water.

Now your kids see that dad can dumped. They will stop eating meat and do anything to get their family back.

Converting your children's lifestyle without your consent in a shxt test to break you.

Tell your WW 50/50 custody. Write it up as a plan: you get a week wife gets a week.

Stop engaging them in discussions that allow them to invalidate you.

Who owns your house?

How far is POSOW's place from school or daycare?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Were did they meet?


----------



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

the guy said:


> Were did they meet?


The ****ing grocery store. Like really?


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Your wife is gone. She is now off of meat, in more ways than one apparently. There is no winning her back or getting her back. Even if you did get her back, you would always wonder if she still wanted to play for the other team. I don't believe as others have posted that there is a vast gay conspiracy to destroy the nuclear family, but there are straight a$$holes and gay a$$holes. Your wife and her partner happen to be in this category.

As I said earlier, focus on your kids and being the best possible dad you can be. They will realize the truth and piece together what happened in due time. Forget about your perfect wife, she wasn't perfect, far from it. She is damaged in the head. Plenty of great women out there who will be a better mother than either of those two dimwits would. Be patient you will find her.

Play fair as far as the kids go. Get an agreement in place as far as custody. And then stick to it. The courts don't necessarily need to be involved. PS your kids have no say in this. They will get used to the schedule. Consistent routine is good for kids. Lunch meetings with her are not necessary. All arrangements can be made over email. Keep phone conversations to a minimum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Can you be more specific about the nature of the dirt your wife has on you? That seems to hinder your ability fight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

jld said:


> I think you are taking the wise and mature, not to mention _realistic _ path, in choosing to talk with them. Your and your kids' lives have changed in a fundamental way.
> 
> Those secrets that can ruin you -- don't you think you could use some counseling for them?



DO NOT TALK WITH THE OW. She is not involved. Noe should she be. 

Following this "woman's" - "orders" is far from the wise and mature path. It is a path of destruction. 

If you think you have secrets that your WW will keep -you are insane. You are giving her all the power here. You think she wants you to lose your job...your nuts. 

The OW doesn't want you to lose you ability to provide income to her new and now LARGE household either. 

Whatever secrets you have, that you think are so important....I promise you they are not as important as your children. 

I've had people try to blackmail me before (many times actually). Give them nothing and have NO fear. RESIGN YOURSELF TO THE ABSOLUTE WORST THING YOU THINK COULD HAPPEN... if your "secrets" were revealed...because your imagination is way worse than the reality....There is nothing better than telling a blackmailer to "Do it" and "$&^) OFF". The power they think they have...GONE. 

As to the other woman. Don't bother talking to her. Don't bother hating her. Be indifferent to her. It sounds like she is used to attention...to some regard...give her NONE. You DO NOT have to include her in anything. So don't. 

Grab your balls. Put them back where they go. You only live one time. Screw the BS....nothing you have done is gonna look worse than your wife does....especially so if she tries throwing out a bunch a damaging info about you. It is HIGHLY unlikely that anyone will listen to the newly minted lesbian that is trying to destroy her stbx husband..In fact...the more she squeals, the less she will be believed. 

She has shown her cards...You haven't shown anything. Go dark. Take care of your kids.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And when you have the kids on your week make them the best steak & lobster dinner each and everytime.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

jld said:


> I think you are taking the wise and mature, not to mention _realistic _ path, in choosing to talk with them. Your and your kids' lives have changed in a fundamentally *NEGATIVE way due to the overall horrible choices your wife is making*.
> 
> Those secrets that can ruin you -- don't you think you could use some counseling for them?


Fixed that for you.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> And when you have the kids on your week make them the best steak & lobster dinner each and everytime.


This might upset them and alienate them.

My advice would be to ask around and cook them the best vegetarian meals that you can.

Vegetarian Recipes | How To & Instructions | Martha Stewart

Interstitial - Today's Parent

vegetarian recipes | kids vegetarian recipes | vegetarian pasta recipes


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

MarriedDude said:


> jld said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are taking the wise and mature, not to mention _realistic _ path, in choosing to talk with them. Your and your kids' lives have changed in a fundamental way.
> ...


My wife isn't the type of woman to bluff. If she says she is going to do something she will do it, especially when she has that "don't **** with me" look in her eyes.

I work in security and my past can easily cost me my job. Our kids want to live with them and she says that she's going to make it happen no matter what. The courts won't care about her cheating because compared to my track record that's nothing.

My ex and the OW don't care about whether I am financially stable or not. They make a lot of money on their own (a lot more than me). I don't think I have much of a chance anymore, my son is ready to leave, he is a bright boy and catching on the the fact that he can leave and I can't do anything about it.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> This might upset them and alienate them.
> 
> *My advice would be to ask around and cook them the best vegetarian meals that you can.*
> 
> ...


This is very sound advice. Maybe, take them to a nutritionists that can explain the real deal to them and help them understand this life choice. 

IIRC....chocolate ice cream would be a no no. What a bummer


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

CarterMan said:


> My wife isn't the type of woman to bluff. If she says she is going to do something she will do it, especially when she has that "don't **** with me" look in her eyes.
> 
> *I work in security and my past can easily cost me my job. Our kids want to live with them and she says that she's going to make it happen no matter what. The courts won't care about her cheating because compared to my track record that's nothing.*
> 
> My ex and the OW don't care about whether I am financially stable or not. They make a lot of money on their own (a lot more than me). I don't think I have much of a chance anymore, my son is ready to leave, he is a bright boy and catching on the the fact that he can leave and I can't do anything about it.


I have held a TSBI w/CNWDI myself for many years. 

Can it haunt you, sure. But so can lettering her have this on you for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. 

If it's that bad....talk to your employer. Tell them about the divorce...let them know it will probably get ugly. Then they are on notice. I wasn't referring to the courts caring, they never do. But the motivations behind accusations -they are examined. 

FYI...I saw plenty of guys lose their clearance JUST BECAUSE OF A DIVORCE. The divorce makes you vulnerable....in and of itself.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Make whatever food is familiar to them. Make sure there are vegetables on the table. If the don't eat the meat, don't pressure them. You love them unconditionally.

It is mom they are wondering about. Mom's disloyalty is confusing them.

If they ask you what is happening, just say husbands and wives sometimes split up. Children stay with their parents.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> Can you be more specific about the nature of the dirt your wife has on you? That seems to hinder your ability fight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not to answer for OP but in my case being and ex con along with my past documented anger problems....it can be problematic in a custody battle and we all know how "nice" the other spouse can be in this kind of matter.

Its a shame OP has to walk softly but when this is finished and this affair is said and done the kids will learn a valueable lesson on how important "real" family is....

As they say "blood is thicker then water" and it's just a matter of time for these young kids to figure that out and learn a very painful lesson!


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

the guy said:


> Not to answer for OP but in my case being and ex con along with my past documented anger problems....it can be problematic in a custody battle and we all know how "nice" the other spouse can be in this kind of matter.
> 
> Its a shame OP has to walk softly but when this is finished and this affair is said and done the kids will learn a valueable lesson on how important "real" family....
> 
> As they say "blood is thicker then water" and it's just a matter of time for these young kids to figure that out!


Very true. They always do. eventually


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

CarterMan said:


> My wife isn't the type of woman to bluff. If she says she is going to do something she will do it, especially when she has that "don't **** with me" look in her eyes.
> 
> I work in security and my past can easily cost me my job. Our kids want to live with them and she says that she's going to make it happen no matter what. The courts won't care about her cheating because compared to my track record that's nothing.
> 
> *My ex and the OW don't care about whether I am financially stable or not. They make a lot of money on their own (a lot more than me).* I don't think I have much of a chance anymore, my son is ready to leave, he is a bright boy and catching on the the fact that he can leave and I can't do anything about it.


I didn't catch that right away....So does this mean she will not be asking for child support?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

MarriedDude said:


> Very true. They always do. eventually


Especially after high school.
They are so impressionable until then.

My 25 yr D was a pain in the @ss, but after ! got her through nursing school we became really tight.

Sorry for the thread jack but the point is CM, you have a long way to go so don't give upon the kids.It's not their fault their mom is stupid...you can't fix stupid.

Go a head let your wife go you can always get another one


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

the guy said:


> lifeistooshort said:
> 
> 
> > Can you be more specific about the nature of the dirt your wife has on you? That seems to hinder your ability fight.
> ...


I told my son that blood was thicker than water and he snapped back at me. He said, "no it's not, if you truly believe that then you also believe that Jack and Kayla's (OW's kids) birth parents love them more than my mom's do. And what about my uncles, aunts and cousins? I barely know them, I love mom's girlfriend more than them. Blood isn't thicker than water it's the relationships you build." 

This isn't out of character of my son. He is very smart and loves to argue with everyone anytime he gets the chance to prove em wrong. I was speechless because he was right...


----------



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

MarriedDude said:


> CarterMan said:
> 
> 
> > My wife isn't the type of woman to bluff. If she says she is going to do something she will do it, especially when she has that "don't **** with me" look in her eyes.
> ...


Even if my wife did need help with money she wouldn't ask. She's too god damn proud.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> I told my son that blood was thicker than water and he snapped back at me. He said, "no it's not, if you truly believe that then you also believe that Jack and Kayla's (OW's kids) birth parents love them more than my mom's do. And what about my uncles, aunts and cousins? I barely know them, I love mom's girlfriend more than them. Blood isn't thicker than water it's the relationships you build."
> 
> This isn't out of character of my son. He is very smart and loves to argue with everyone anytime he gets the chance to prove em wrong. I was speechless because he was right...


He is smart. But not street smart. And they'll use his intelligence against him, sadly.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> Even if my wife did need help with money she wouldn't ask. She's too god damn proud.


Unless her Wonderwoman insists on it as her right?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ya they all think they are smart until they call dare old dad up in the middle of the night for bail.

This relationship your boy is talking about was built on lies...trust me your boy isn't that smart *yet*....sorry don't mean to dis your kid but he's only 15 (if my memory is correct?) they all have this "I'm smarter then the world" at that age.

He is going to be a completely different kid in 4-5 yrs. trust me.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

CarterMan said:


> I told my son that blood was thicker than water and he snapped back at me. *He said, "no it's not, if you truly believe that then you also believe that Jack and Kayla's (OW's kids) birth parents love them more than my mom's do.* And what about my uncles, aunts and cousins? I barely know them, I love mom's girlfriend more than them. Blood isn't thicker than water it's the relationships you build."
> 
> This isn't out of character of my son. He is very smart and loves to argue with everyone anytime he gets the chance to prove em wrong. I was speechless because he was right...


He sounds young, a little insightful, but young. Maybe help him understand "Spurious Comparison". 

But other than that -don't attempt to disillusion him about his mommy's relationship now. He will do that on his own. Avoid anything that will even remotely resemble casting doubt upon mom's choices. If you push -he will push back. Don't disparage his mom -but don't condone either. He sounds smart enough to make his own decisions -and also to change his mind when the reality doesn't match up to the new plan and the "perceived" group future they are creating in the other house. 

I empathize with you -you are in a tough situation. I have one family that we are friends with -that went through this about 15 years ago. Exactly the same thing. That son works for me now. His dad didn't push -it took him years -but he doesn't even speak to his mom now (which was never the fathers goal). Heart-breaking for the whole family. The father never stopped being polite/respectful/kind...but firm on his boundaries. All the kids are very close to him now -when it was very different at first. They grow up -they see everything. 

You will be ok. It will take time. But your kids are yours...forever.


----------



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> CarterMan said:
> 
> 
> > Even if my wife did need help with money she wouldn't ask. She's too god damn proud.
> ...


I don't think she will. Even if she did my ex would probably tell her to shut up.


----------



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

the guy said:


> Ya they all think they are smart until they call dare old dad up in the middle of the night for bail.
> 
> This relationship your boy is talking about was built on lies...trust me your boy isn't that smart *yet*....sorry don't mean to dis your kid but he's only 15 (if my memory is correct?) they all have this "I'm smarter then the world" at that age.
> 
> He is going to be a completely different kid in 4-5 yrs. trust me.


He's 10. One of the OW's kids are 15.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

CarterMan said:


> Blood isn't thicker than water it's the relationships you build."
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Just be steady. 

Your stbx left. That is a big disadvantage in a custody battle. As to what your stbx knows about you, you just have to be calm and refuse to give in to blackmail. If you do it now, she will never let up.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The only way this brain washing will go away is when he catches his mom cheating again on her current GF or GF gets tired of your family and goes after another one.

Again a painful lesson your son is about to learn about intimate relationship versus blood relationships.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

CarterMan said:


> I don't think she will. Even if she did my ex would probably tell her to shut up.




I wouldn't take that to the bank. Unless....

You may consider, since they are in the honeymoon phase and everything is awesome -get that in writing from her. Get it made legal -that she doesn't want support. 

That can only help you. There are angles to that as well:

Since your stbxw is making threats that will cost you your job -you won't have the money to pay it anyway...right?? She will end up further spilling her real intent. Is she the magnanimous lady that is following her heart and wants a big happy family that includes you -or does she want to crush you -because she can't really have both. You kids will notice the dichotomy there. 

It will also force wonder-woman there to have to make some choices...that will either show her to be capable and without any need for your money...or she will have to spin it pretty hard to explain why her new girl needs something from a man...Hmmmm....that will be an interesting conversation. Culminating in - can she run a household and support it -or not.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

the guy said:


> CarterMan said:
> 
> 
> > Blood isn't thicker than water it's the relationships you build."
> ...


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> I don't think she will. Even if she did my ex would probably tell her to shut up.


Like she refused Wonderwoman's advice to leave you for her?

Your old wife is gone. She is replaced with a podperson.

You have very little idea what she is capable of now.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> Just be steady.
> 
> Your stbx left. That is a big disadvantage in a custody battle. As to what your stbx knows about you, you just have to be calm and refuse to give in to blackmail. If you do it now, she will never let up.


The way Isee it is if she gets full cudoty OP's job won't mean shyt cuz his paycheck will all go to child support. And if his old lady is dumb enough to expose the secret and lose his job then she gets nothing cuz he has no job.

Way would your old lady risk your job and the child support it has to offer by exposing your secret.

LW make a good point..."refuse to give in to blackmail" your old lady is phucking her self if she exposes you! She may be to stubid to see this so you might want to reminder her if she does pull this card again.

Go see a lawyer at least you will have options and know what your up against if you give into your old lady....I'm pretty sure a lawyer will tell you you will be left with about 10-5% of your income if you give your old lady full custody.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

With the exception of your children, your behavior with your WW and her OW should be totally businesslike and icy cold.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

the guy said:


> The way Isee it is if she gets full cudoty OP's job won't mean shyt cuz his paycheck will all go to child support. And if his old lady is dumb enough to expose the secret and lose his job then she gets nothing cuz he has no job.
> 
> Way would your old lady risk your job and the child support it has to offer by exposing your secret.
> 
> ...


I would say -Don't remind her. If *she* brings it up. Just tell her to go ahead, she can do what she wants, but that the repercussions affect everyone...not just OP. 

If she doesn't bring it up again -it was all posturing BS.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

the guy said:


> The only way this brain washing will go away is when he catches his mom cheating again on her current GF or GF gets tired of your family and goes after another one.
> 
> Again a painful lesson your son is about to learn about intimate relationship versus blood relationships.


My mom pretty much brainwashed me against my dad when they split up when I was 12. I resented him a long time. But eventually it dawned on me that he wasn't the bad guy he was made out to be. (He cheated on my mother, but in hindsight she was likely cheating too, emotionally if not physically). 

Your son will come around. It will take time, just be there for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Why do these thread always start out with "she won't ask for money" but by page 16-20 the betrayed husband is posting about how screwed over he is getting by his STBXW.

And for the most part by pages 20-25 the AP is long gone and the wayward spouse is in a new relationship looking for a pay out.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

She will want the money. They have four kids to feed. Book it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

I'm in the middle of texting my ex. I don't know how appropriate it is to post here but it shows her point of view and not so likeable personality. 

Me: I know the kids want to live with you but they need their father. This will only be temporary, they will change their minds eventually. 

Ex: They want to live with us so they will, simple as. Don't let your jealousy get in the way of your kids happiness. 

Me:
You think I'm not gonna fight for my kids? 

Ex:
Fight for them? I dare you to make this a custody battle. I ****ing dare you.

Me:
You can't threaten me. What happens if you get full custody after you open your mouth and I lose my job, eh?

Ex: I'll celebrate with champagne. What are you gonna do, love? 

Me: So you don't care about me providing to the kids? What about child support. 

Ex: 
sweetheart you're a ****ing security guard. I make 100 grand a year I think I'll be fine.

Ex: But thanks for worrying about me 

Me:
I'm not worried about you, I'm worried about my kids.

Ex: Oh, their lives will be horrible in this expensive house full of kids and two wonderful parents. Your heart shall bleed for them. 

Me: What do you even know about this woman?

Ex: Well she's ****ing hot for one. I mean you already know that. Ooo she plays the guitar as well. Anything else you want to know?

Me: I'm serious.

Ex: I trust her and I love her. She is no threat to the kids she has two of her own for ****s sake.

Me: So what?

Ex: She went through an uphill battle to adopt them. She raised two beautiful kids to become amazing, well mannered teenagers. She is not the devil woman you think she is. I was more in the wrong than she was.... 

Ex: Leave me alone. I'll contact when I want to ****ing contact you.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

CarterMan said:


> I'm in the middle of texting my ex. I don't know how appropriate it is to post here but it shows her point of view and not so likeable personality.
> 
> Me: I know the kids want to live with you but they need their father. This will only be temporary, they will change their minds eventually.
> 
> ...


Looks like a security guard needs some spousal support. 

Boom

Stop Texting her. Also -Make sure you have all the texts backed up and printed out. Please do this. Don't lose that conversation....it is literally -money in YOUR bank. Go find an awesome lawyer -you get to pay for it out of the marital funds....meaning some of her 100 grand a year. 

(Boom...again)..


ETA: You are a stronger man than me...when someone throws me a softball like "What else do you want to know"...It would have been impossible to not ask something like...has she ever seen a stranger shaped vagina than yours?"., "

But DON't do that stuff...I had actually typed out about 50 awesome lesbian jokes...but deleted them...they are funny -but not helpful.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

You need to stop the texting stuff now. 

Stop talking to her about stuff. Taking action is your way ahead. Words are for weenies. Stop your toxic interaction - today. I know things are emotionally hot, but you've got to keep your calm 24/7/365. Have your breakdowns in front of your male friends or by yourself. Never let your STBX or her gf see you sweat. DO NOT SHOW YOUR HAND.

1. Get legal counsel now. Find out your rights for sure including your time with your kids. She can't take them from you. She will try. If you have an income imbalance, you may be eligible for spousal support from HER. Believe me, if the tables were turned, she would be all over you.
2. Only discuss your kids. In the very short term, get a shared custody arrangement. 
3. You need stop living in fear of what she is going to hold over you. She's got you over a barrel and she knows it. What's the harm in letting it come out? What's the worst that will happen? You need to stop letting her hold crap over you. Can she prove what she has over you?

Calm, cool and professional. From here on out, it has to be all business. I recommend going dark for a bit. Information bursts only about kid stuff. 

No melodrama. 

Solid?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So, when you get split custody, she will have to pay you alimony.

She really hasn't thought this through. Has she?


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> My mom pretty much brainwashed me against my dad when they split up when I was 12. I resented him a long time. But eventually it dawned on me that he wasn't the bad guy he was made out to be. (He cheated on my mother, but in hindsight she was likely cheating too, emotionally if not physically).
> 
> Your son will come around. It will take time, just be there for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess I was lucky, no brainwashing -My mom just vanished...My dad simply told me that she loved me -but she has problems -that she will call, she'll write, she will come see me.... He kept telling me that until I told him to just stop....You don't love someone by forgetting they are alive. I think he wanted to believe that she cared -wanted it so bad for me.... I did want it for a while, till I figured it out. I no longer have those illusions about her or people in general. I have grown sons she has never met. 

Kids always figure it out. 

Sorry to thread jack OP. Even if she gets custody and it's hard to see them. Don't you dare ever stop trying....They will remember every little thing you do....or DON"T do. Forever.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

MarriedDude said:


> I guess I was lucky, no brainwashing -My mom just vanished...My dad simply told me that she loved me -but she has problems -that she will call, she'll write, she will come see me.... He kept telling me that until I told him to just stop....You don't love someone by forgetting they are alive. I think he wanted to believe that she cared -wanted it so bad for me.... I did want it for a while, till I figured it out. I no longer have those illusions about her or people in general. I have grown sons she has never met.
> 
> Kids always figure it out.
> 
> Sorry to thread jack OP. Even if she gets custody and it's hard to see them. Don't you dare ever stop trying....They will remember every little thing you do....or DON"T do. Forever.


^ Word.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

Another text from her.

Don't get any smart ideas either. Not only will you lose your job but you will go to jail. This isn't you smoking weed, John. You committed a crime that will never be forgotten.

5 minutes later

Your son cries to me about you not letting him leave. If he wanted to live with you I wouldn't be putting up this fight but my children come first. 

Don't text back 
________________________________________________

I know you guys told me not to text her but I couldn't help it. The last line "don't text back" made me want to text back.

Me: You think he won't every learn about you threatening me? What will he think about mommy dearest when he knows what your doing?

Ex: Oh god John. This is what he wants! He told me to do anything to let him live with me. Anything.

Me: I wouldn't go to jail.

Ex: I'll make sure you do 

Me: You're an evil little *****.

Ex: You've always known that John. You got off on it. Now you're mad that you lost your trophy wife to a woman and there's nothing you can do about it. I don't know who is giving you the courage to challenge me but they don't know what I know so don't let your friends throw you into a hole you can't get out of.

Ex: I'm picking my kids up tonight. I'll have them full time. You are still their father but they will be living with me until THEY say otherwise. You see John, their perspective is actually important to me.



I know I shouldn't text back but she riles me up and she's also 100% right. I guess I just have to deal with it... I'm not going to gamble this.

Note: I did NOT murder anyone incase that's what you got from this.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Seek legal counsel.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

CarterMan said:


> Another text from her.
> 
> Don't get any smart ideas either. Not only will you lose your job but you will go to jail. This isn't you smoking weed, John. You committed a crime that will never be forgotten.
> 
> ...


Note the Bold above....She is now worried. Savor the flavor of her worry becasue it always becomes very vicious. Stay the course. 

And NO...She doesn't get to just take the kids away from their home and say "This is how it is". Sounds like you and the kids should go out to dinner and the movies. Come home late. Turn off your phone....and theirs. 

Stop texting her. GET A LAWYER NOW.

ask him about a 'Status Quo order". This will be your friend. 

I highly doubt you murdered anyone. FYI -if she covered up a significant crime for which you would do jail time...that's another issue. also...what is the Statute of Limitations on your crime? If it's elapsed...she has nothing. DO NOT TELL HER THIS.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I'll be happier when this thread can be moved to Private.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Yeah she sounds perfect. Smh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Brah why are you texting her?

Do you enjoy the butt whippings she's handing out?

Go dark for heavens sake. I feel bad for you reading that.

Stop feeding her crazy and start planning how to fight for your kids.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

*Misprision of felony* definition:



> "*Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.* "


This means that if you go down, she goes down as well. She could loose her career since few employers do not seek out a police report when interviewing new employees.

Run it through your attorney first though.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I feel that there are a few fundamental principles which seem to be escaping you. First, you are those children's father. No job, woman or bankroll is more important than that. Second, your wife seems to think that love is the byproduct of lies, deception and betrayal. Third, how dependable a mother is a woman who leaves her kids (weekends only as per your post), splits a family apart and exposes her children to strangers from a supermarket. Fourth, money cannot buy true love nor happiness.

Your WW has zero respect for you and seems to care for you even less. She does not see you as any kind of viable threat. She is controlling this situation completely. Until you are ready and willing to demonstratively prove to your WW that she severely underestimated you then you will have to accept what she doles out.

Instead of your son arguing the viscosity of blood to water, perhaps ask him if he knows the difference between homemaker and homewrecker. Perhaps they have not yet coached him on that subject. Good fortune to you.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

OP - you really need to listen to some of the people here. 

There is no question that your stbxw is the stronger of you two. Between her and wonder woman, they will grind you into little pieces, and enjoy every moment.

Get legal help ASAP. Protect your legal rights and those of your children


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BobSimmons said:


> Brah why are you texting her?
> 
> Do you enjoy the butt whippings she's handing out?
> 
> ...


Because he still loves her and really can't get his head round the fact that she, the love of his life, is really doing all this stuff?

But she is, so please, OP, learn how to cope with your new reality.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Stop wasting more emotional energy on your WW. Do not respond to any of her taunts and only talk about issues regarding the kids without allowing yourself to be sucked in to any drama she spews at you.

Please read morituri's post titled *Just Let Them Go*.

In a strange way, the OW actually did you a favor in taking off your hands a person like your WW. Now it's her turn to live and experience who your STBX really is.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

I think I'm gonna let my kids go...

I tried getting them out the house but my oldest son put up a fight. He said, "no dad, mom's picking us up". Then he told me he knew what I was doing. So I just waited for my ex to come over and I was going to talk to her face to face.

When I went to get the door suprise, suprise it was her new girlfriend. She came to door while my ex sat in the car applying ****ing makeup like she had no care in the world. I asked why she came to door instead of my ex and she told me that my ex "sent" her (like a dog). I never talked to this woman alone so I asked her to come in, my ex had no interest in speaking to me so I decided to talk to her lap dog instead. But she didn't come in she just told me that she didn't hate me and didn't even know I existed until halfway through the relationship. She just came to pick up the kids and move along. 

The kids ran downstairs jumping up in her arms, hugging her and kissing her (they never interact like that with me). I just let them go and I don't think I'm gonna fight this too much. If they want to live with her then maybe a I should let them...

Thanks for all the advice but the number one person a I have been thinking about in this situation is myself and not my kids. My ex has more money, they have more kids, two parent household, my kids obviously love it there. It's not like I'll never see them again, they only live 15 minutes away.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

CarterMan said:


> I think I'm gonna let my kids go...
> 
> I tried getting them out the house but my oldest son put up a fight. He said, "no dad, mom's picking us up". Then he told me he knew what I was doing. So I just waited for my ex to come over and I was going to talk to her face to face.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for you man. I guess you know what both your balls taste like by now.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

I'm very sorry that things have turned out the way they have. Perhaps you should start putting yourself first and realize some of the dreams and goals you put off in the past because of wife and family. Remember that pain is inevitable but misery is optional.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> I'm sorry for you man. I guess you know what both your balls taste like by now.


But we don't need to kick them for him, do we?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> Even if my wife did need help with money she wouldn't ask. She's too god damn proud.


Would your selfish, biotch of a wife with your balls owe you spousal support?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> I think I'm gonna let my kids go...
> 
> I tried getting them out the house but my oldest son put up a fight. He said, "no dad, mom's picking us up". Then he told me he knew what I was doing. So I just waited for my ex to come over and I was going to talk to her face to face.
> 
> ...


I think your ex-wife has already damaged and potentially doomed her new relationship.

How? She sort of forgot to tell her new partner that she was married? She lied to her.

Not the best start to a new relationship, is it? :scratchhead:


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> But we don't need to kick them for him, do we?


Sometimes a very direct approach is needed. He was given some good advice, but elected not to take it.

That light he saw at the end of the tunnel, was his stbxw and wonder woman driving a freight train right at him.

Train wrecks are not a pretty sight.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

:iagree:

I agree. His wife planned this whole event pretty well.

That is why he should let his kids go and go after her for spousal support just to make her pay some $$$ to piss her off.

That is what I would do.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I agree. His wife planned this whole event pretty well.
> 
> ...


Yep, she played him like a finely tuned piano.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

This woman is trying to wrestle away the title of most evil WW from LMJ's WW. 

Incredible. Complete sociopath.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

A few days ago, there was a thread titled something close to "I ruined a marriage. Now what do I do?" It disappeared overnight, because, well, you know why.

My comment on the thread disappeared as well, but after catching up on this thread, I have to think that re-stating it as best I can is appropriate.

Some threads on TAM are really lurid and engaging. These threads have some features in common.

A thread title that draws you in, hard.

A problem that exceeds the normal run-of-the-mill things people post on TAM about. Rather than straight infidelity, its infidelity with multiple people, or abuse beyond any notion of civilized behavior.

An OP who is somehow naive and unable to reach the obvious conclusion regarding their situation.

The good folks of TAM chime in and offer their advice, and the OP studiously refuses to reach common ground, digest the advice, or otherwise take steps to get better.

And people freak out. Sympathy turns to sarcasm and contempt, and a TAM thread goes from being about helping someone to people hurting themselves.

Remember that everything you write on TAM is for YOU. Really, what you are saying is 'well, if I were OP, in his shoes, this is what I would do.....'

I don't know how much of Carterman's tale is true. I do know that his wife, and her GF, if they exist, are completely irrelevant. Nothing anyone says about them will matter one bit.

And I know that Carterman needs help. Lot sand lots of professional help. And that is 100% independent of how much of Carterman's tale is true, too.

So assume that Carterman is a deeply flawed and damaged person (because, quite obviously, he is).

What things can Carterman do to get better?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Like I said, sooner or later the shine will come off this relationship. If the kids live there then so be it. It's not like you'll never see them.

I hate to say this and I can be quite possibly wrong but if these kids think it's going to be smooth sailing, their nuts. In this world you got people that love nothing better then to irritate others and kids can be cruel and when some of those kids find out about Mom and her partner, it can get real ugly and I hope not but in this world with all the electronics at everyone's disposal a few can make it real hard on some and it could very well back fire on Mom and partner.

I have nothing against same sex relationships or marriage. It's their business and I have no right pointing a finger but some do and their the ones that can make this little utopia not so great. 

Now with you. You need a lawyer. Not in a month but right now. If there's a divorce, 99% of the time it's 50/50 and if by chance she has a lot more then you, then the courts will make sure that you get your share even if it comes out of her pocket and when she has to part with some of her income to keep things balanced, well she wanted the divorce and she got it but she better understand that the door swings both ways. 

You make sure that you get your share and stop worrying about your job. If she's that stupid to make you lose your job then it will only come out of her end when the divorce is final. Stop playing games and get legal help. You need it more than you know.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

NotLikeYou said:


> A few days ago, there was a thread titled something close to "I ruined a marriage. Now what do I do?" It disappeared overnight, because, well, you know why.
> 
> My comment on the thread disappeared as well, but after catching up on this thread, I have to think that re-stating it as best I can is appropriate.
> 
> ...


"An OP who is somehow naive and unable to reach the obvious conclusion regarding their situation."

But it's not obvious. That's the point, there is no perfect solution. I'm ****ing myself over one way or another.

"Remember that everything you write on TAM is for YOU. Really, what you are saying is 'well, if I were OP, in his shoes, this is what I would do.....' "

I agree. The one thing they told me not to do is the only thing that relaxed my nerves (speaking to the OW) She contacted me after the incident to discuss the kids and she isn't nearly as bad as my ex. She actually feels bad while my ex is just... cold.


"I don't know how much of Carterman's tale is true. I do know that his wife, and her GF, if they exist, are completely irrelevant. Nothing anyone says about them will matter one bit."

I disagree. I think they are 100% relevant, they are the reason I am in this situation and the only people involved besides me.

"And I know that Carterman needs help. Lot sand lots of professional help. And that is 100% independent of how much of Carterman's tale is true, too.

So assume that Carterman is a deeply flawed and damaged person (because, quite obviously, he is)."

I think I had my moment of madness and it's fading away. I was fine before hand and needed my time to freak out. At this moment I don't think I need any professional help nor do I think I'm "deeply flawed and damaged" I'll try to keep open communication from now on.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

6301 said:


> Like I said, sooner or later the shine will come off this relationship. If the kids live there then so be it. It's not like you'll never see them.
> 
> I hate to say this and I can be quite possibly wrong but if these kids think it's going to be smooth sailing, their nuts. In this world you got people that love nothing better then to irritate others and kids can be cruel and when some of those kids find out about Mom and her partner, it can get real ugly and I hope not but in this world with all the electronics at everyone's disposal a few can make it real hard on some and it could very well back fire on Mom and partner.
> 
> ...


Their friends know and nobody has made a fuss of it. It's not cool to be homophobic for them anymore, at least not where I live. I'm sure people have their opinions but no one has been vocal about it. I used to wish my kids got bullied so I can use it as an argument but I realize how ****ed up that is now.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

CarterMan said:


> The one thing they told me not to do is the only thing that relaxed my nerves (speaking to the OW) She contacted me after the incident to discuss the kids and she isn't nearly as bad as my ex. She actually feels bad while my ex is just... cold.


Interesting. An AP who shows more compassion to the BH than his WW, something of a novelty here.

This MAY be one of those rare situations where it might not be such a bad idea for you to communicate with the OW more often in a courteous and respectful fashion. She MAY even be of help in restoring your relationship with your children and just p!ss the hell out off your WW.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

See a lawyer. At the very least get an idea of what your realistic options are, before jumping to conclusions.

Of the course of the thread I went from feeling a lot of sympathy for you to feeling happy for you that your b#tch of a wife is gone, mixed with sadness over the kids. 

I feel sad for your kids and I feel that any harm that comes to them is not going to have anything to do with their mom being a lesbian but because she is an immature, evil c&nt.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

OP: Get a lawyer already FFS.

Your wife is toxic in the extreme and there's no telling what she will do. You had better be prepared for anything. If you aren't, you're a fool.


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## Joe75 (Oct 12, 2013)

"Unfortunately I can't go to court with this. A lot stuff about my past could possibly get out and I could lose my job.”

Hi CarterMan

You are at a defining moment of your life where you need to be at the top of your game for yourself and your children. If you are not, then the resulting consequences will be far-reaching for you all. Yet at this point, you are behind the proverbial eight ball. Your wife is proactively moving forward with her new life, self-assuredly brushing aside your reactions. The balance in your present relationship is steeply tilted in your wife’s favour and she knows it. She has seen the “face of the enemy”, you, and there is nothing to fear. You need to shake this up and get her off balance to the point she begins reacting to your decisive courses of action. In other words, you need to get ahead of the power curve as you proceed to divorce. But this will not happen until you stop “fighting with one arm tied behind your back”. I am referring to your past acting as a perceived Sword of Damocles over you.

Anxiety of your past coming to light will result in fear based decisions by yourself - which is not a good thing. This will cause procrastination such as trying to avoid upsetting the apple cart rather then, for example, standing up for what is right for your children now because you are fearful of your wife’s reaction. Also, fear based decisions can result in you making ill-advised concessions during the divorce process and post-divorce (why would she give up this hold she has over you). Overall, fear based decisions will not result in what is best for you and more importantly what is best for your children. Finally, there is no guarantee that your wife will not go ‘nuclear’ and reveal your past if an advantage can be obtained or just for spite. 

Your refusal to talk about your past here in an open forum is understandable; but, you need to address it now in a proactive manner. Therefore, it is imperative that you retain legal counsel soonest. Once you have a lawyer and the attorney–client privilege is established, advice can be sought and options can be developed to address the past and proactively mitigate the effect on the present. 

CarterMan, if the decision is to bring your past out from the shadows, then the hold your wife has over you will vapourize. Further, confidence will return along with clarity. It is liberating when you can no longer be affected by someone who harbours ill will towards you. 

Regards

Joe75


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

happyman64 said:


> I agree. His wife planned this whole event pretty well.
> 
> That is why he should let his kids go and go after her for spousal support just to make her pay some $$$ to piss her off.
> 
> That is what I would do.


What exactly did she plan. Maybe I'm missing something or I'm just stupid.
Don't you have to be in deep **** financially for spousal support?


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> What exactly did she plan. Maybe I'm missing something or I'm just stupid.
> Don't you have to be in deep **** financially for spousal support?


I agree that it's not spousal support she wants. She and her lover have way more money than you. What she does want apparently is full custody of the children and to basically cut you out of their lives.

That's why you need to see a lawyer yesterday, my friend. You need to tell the lawyer about her threats and develop a plan to deal with this in court.

And please, QUIT TEXTING WITH HER!!! If she texts you, IGNORE IT. 

And please don't trust her lover either. She may be nice-ing you as a way to make sure of what you're going to do.


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## old red (Jul 26, 2014)

if this is real, follow the advice re lawyers, etc. as for your son, plan for the long war. turn the house into a man-cave (pin ball machines, snooker table, sound system,etc.) and if you are healthy, lift weights and learn a martial art. buy a bbq or outdoor grill and learn how to cook a great mixed grill. buy pizza and hamburgers when your kids are around, but give them the choice of some steamed vegetables if that's what they prefer. make sure that you are fun to be around, without compromising your role as their father. even if you have to fake it, act relieved that your wife is gone when her or her partner are around. by the time your boy hits puberty, he will be begging to leave the vegans behind. as painful as this time is, you have to think of it as an opportunity to become a better man. if you are a criminal and a drug taker, you really do need to become a better man, for your own and your kids' sake. use this extra time you will have while the children are gone to improve yourself. read, read and read - sharpen up your intellectual powers.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

In present day bissaro world, homosexual relationships are
encouraged and the ultra left see nothing wrong with replacing
the former spouse who thinks opposite sex marriage is
still right.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

What we are saying is to go after HER for spousal support. You may be entitled to it. Or you use it as a bargaining chip for fairer custody agreement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

hookares said:


> In present day bissaro world, homosexual relationships are
> encouraged and the ultra left see nothing wrong with replacing
> the former spouse who thinks opposite sex marriage is
> still right.


What does politics have to do with this guy losing his cheating wife to another woman? So if Obama wasnt elected she' still be married to him? Not everything needs politics injected into it. Especially this guys situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

I feel as if I'm being selfish. What good is it for the kids to go back and forth from my place to their mom's? I want them to have a stable home but at the same time that's what I'm trying to take away from them. Although I hate my ex I know that she is a good mom and her new gf seems to have done a good job of raising her kids as well.

I dunno maybe I'm being dumb instead of selfless with my thinking. I mean, should I listen to my kids or are they "just" kids.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Because you are their father and they need you in their life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kacey4 (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm so sorry but I've been reading this and disagree with everything said. Let's just get this out of the way, yes your wife sounds like a total ***** BUT that doesn't mean that she is a bad mother. She doesn't love you and probably never has if she's actually a lesbian. 

She seems controlling but she dropped you when her new lover told her to. That must of been hard for her to let someone else dictate her actions and it leads me to believe that she actually cares about this new woman. Your children have obviously bonded with the new lover and feel more at home there. I 100% disagree with swapping houses every week as its not stable for them like you mentioned. 

You say you live 15 minutes away so you'll still see them. I say let them go because if you don't your son will just take it out on you for ruining his perfect little family. If it doesn't work out you'll still be there and if it does then your kids will be happy.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Kacey4 said:


> I'm so sorry but I've been reading this and disagree with everything said. Let's just get this out of the way, yes your wife sounds like a total ***** BUT that doesn't mean that she is a bad mother. She doesn't love you and probably never has if she's actually a lesbian.
> 
> She seems controlling but she dropped you when her new lover told her to. That must of been hard for her to let someone else dictate her actions and it leads me to believe that she actually cares about this new woman. Your children have obviously bonded with the new lover and feel more at home there. I 100% disagree with swapping houses every week as its not stable for them like you mentioned.
> 
> You say you live 15 minutes away so you'll still see them. I say let them go because if you don't your son will just take it out on you for ruining his perfect little family. If it doesn't work out you'll still be there and if it does then your kids will be happy.


While I disagree with this post in so many ways lets discuss it.

Do the children get decide who they live with?

Because legally they don't.

Could the son hold it against him? Yes.

Could his son then come back in ten years hating his Dad for not protecting him or fighting for him? Yes.

I think CarterMan needs to speak to an attorney so he understands his rights and the rights of his children.


The OW is not a parent of his children. Her opinion at this time does not play any part at this time.

I also think both Carterman and his WW need a timeout period for emotions to calm down before any long term decisions that effect his children any further than her leaving the marriage/household without any preparation does any more damage to their family.....


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Kacey4 said:


> I'm so sorry but I've been reading this and disagree with everything said. Let's just get this out of the way, yes your wife sounds like a total ***** BUT that doesn't mean that she is a bad mother. She doesn't love you and probably never has if she's actually a lesbian.
> 
> She seems controlling but she dropped you when her new lover told her to. That must of been hard for her to let someone else dictate her actions and it leads me to believe that she actually cares about this new woman. Your children have obviously bonded with the new lover and feel more at home there. I 100% disagree with swapping houses every week as its not stable for them like you mentioned.
> 
> You say you live 15 minutes away so you'll still see them. I say let them go because if you don't your son will just take it out on you for ruining his perfect little family. If it doesn't work out you'll still be there and if it does then your kids will be happy.


This is poor advice and happy man touched on most of it.

Kacey, not sure if you are a counselor or child psychologist or whatever, but to say that the kids are better off -- more stable -- from living with one parent full time runs counterintuitive to just about everything I've ever read, experienced, or witnessed.

Children need a full time father in their lives. Violence or substance abuse are exceptions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

it would be great if folks would stop encouraging him to give up his kids.

If you haven't experienced losing a parent, than you have ZERO idea
Of the Long term damage. 

OP needs some sort of legal custody even if its less than 50%.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

CarterMan

Have you called the attorney today? This is not something you do tomorrow, or next week, or month.

I'm going to paint you a scenario you won't like. You know that your stbxw and her SO make much more money than you. She doesn't need your money for child support. After the divorce decree is issued, a couple months later she anonymously contacts your employer, and rats you out.

Now you have lost your wife, family and job.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

Call the attorney!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

MarriedDude said:


> it would be great if folks would stop encouraging him to give up his kids.
> 
> If you haven't experienced losing a parent, than you have ZERO idea
> Of the Long term damage.
> ...


I agree MD and that is why a few of us suggested he contact a lawyer.

His WW is way too controlling. Her actions have been pretty scary for a concerned mother if you ask me.


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## betrayed16 (Oct 23, 2014)

Kacey4 said:


> I'm so sorry but I've been reading this and disagree with everything said. Let's just get this out of the way, yes your wife sounds like a total ***** BUT that doesn't mean that she is a bad mother. She doesn't love you and probably never has if she's actually a lesbian.


If she is a lesbian and always has been, then it was fiendish of her to trick this poor man into marrying her. The level of deception and absolute lack of concern for destroying another person's life is beyond evil, and that kind of person would absolutely be a bad mother. You can't teach your kids right from wrong if you have no concept of what that means.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Kacey4 said:


> I'm so sorry but I've been reading this and disagree with everything said. Let's just get this out of the way, yes your wife sounds like a total ***** BUT that doesn't mean that she is a bad mother. She doesn't love you and probably never has if she's actually a lesbian.
> 
> She seems controlling but she dropped you when her new lover told her to. That must of been hard for her to let someone else dictate her actions and it leads me to believe that she actually cares about this new woman. Your children have obviously bonded with the new lover and feel more at home there. I 100% disagree with swapping houses every week as its not stable for them like you mentioned.
> 
> You say you live 15 minutes away so you'll still see them. I say let them go because if you don't your son will just take it out on you for ruining his perfect little family. If it doesn't work out you'll still be there and if it does then your kids will be happy.


Actually, that's wrong. She is actually a dreadful, _dreadful _mother.

Why? She seems to be turning her children against their own father. And that is *not* the sign of a good mother.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A few observations. You seem to have a lot of baggage, you seem to fight for the wrong reasons, you seem to have trouble dealing in an emotionally mature way even with your son. Maybe that's all just because you're in shock; I hope so. 

Because the only way you can succeed in this situation is by acting mature, responsible, strong yet loving, and logical. If your stbx sees you not just giving in to everything yet putting your children's well being first, you have a chance at your kids wanting you to be part of their lives. And just maybe your stbx will start admiring you again and consider you. Down the road.

Get the book His Needs Her Needs. She left you because you were most likely not doing what this book says to do. Either that, or she's been lesbian all along and only just came to grips with it; and if that's the case, you'll never get her back, and you'll have to accept the fact that you're not compatible.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

jld said:


> Wow. Tough situation.
> 
> I have to say, my sister is a lesbian, and just about every kid, and most adults, think she is a super gal. She is a fun person to be with, and has always been a respected leader.
> 
> ...



?????


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## MikeLas (Mar 30, 2015)

CarterMan you have to do what feels right to you. We don't know you or your entire situation in depth So at the end of the day do what you think will benefit YOUR kids.

I was in a very similar situation to you 12 years ago. My wife cheated on me with a woman and told me she was a lesbian. I didn't know how to take that information but I wanted my sons to live with me. Problem was my boys wanted to live with their mom.

I faught them until I couldn't anymore and ended up letting them live with their mom and her new girlfriend (now wife). I still have a relationship with my boys and I even have a relationship with my ex wife and her new wife. My son's visit me often and spend the night when they feel like it, their moms view me as part as the family and we spend time together with all 7 of their kids. Things can get difficult when you have three parents involved when making decisions about kids but we work it out. I'm not saying that your stbxw's new girlfriend is parent at the moment but if they last she will naturally have a say in your kids lives.

You are not abandoning your children by letting them live with their mom. My eldest doesn't hate me for not "fighting" and he's 25 now. I feel as if you are not telling us something about you as a father, you are saying you want to let them go while sticking around here. If you belive that they will be happier and better off at their mom's then let them go. If not, fight for them but be smart about it your wife seems really.... fiesty.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

CarterMan,

This thread should be moved to the private section. Unless you feel you no longer need advice.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> CarterMan,
> 
> This thread should be moved to the private section. Unless you feel you no longer need advice.


He needs a few more posts, yet.


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## Kacey4 (Mar 30, 2015)

I read through this thread again and when I think about it, your wife ain't that bad. She is in fact *****y but maybe she has her reasons.

You had the kids during the week no problem, right? Your wife obviously didn't mind "sharing" the kids at some point in time. In the texts she wrote that her son cried to her about moving in. It seems that the only reason she is pushing for this is because she wants her kids to be happy. 

Has she been *****y McIcequeen the entire time or was this recent? 

I also have to add that I come from a broken home. At first custody was 50/50 and I hated it I much preferred having one "main" home to live in. That is why a I made the comment I did.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Kacey4 said:


> I read through this thread again and when I think about it, your wife ain't that bad. She is in fact *****y but maybe she has her reasons.
> 
> You had the kids during the week no problem, right? Your wife obviously didn't mind "sharing" the kids at some point in time. In the texts she wrote that her son cried to her about moving in. It seems that the only reason she is pushing for this is because she wants her kids to be happy.
> 
> ...


She ain't that bad? :wtf:

She committed adultery. (She ain't that bad, though.)
She lied to her spouse. (She ain't that bad, though.)
She broke up the family. (She ain't that bad, though.)
She badmouths the father to their children. (She ain't that bad, though.)
She lied to her new partner about her marital status. (She ain't that bad, though.)
Her new partner shows more concern and fellowfeel toward her betrayed spouse than she, the wayward wife, does. (She ain't that bad, though.)

Actually, I think she is that bad, though.

Incidentally, should her new partner come to TAM and ask for our advice? I'd advice her to run as far, far away from Carterman's ex as she can.


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## Kacey4 (Mar 30, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Kacey4 said:
> 
> 
> > I read through this thread again and when I think about it, your wife ain't that bad. She is in fact *****y but maybe she has her reasons.
> ...


Yesh she cheated and she was wrong for that but I don't think she's this evil woman that Carterman is painting her out to be. From the information gathered, she did not have a problem with Carterman having the kids most of the time until her son complained about it. I don't believe she is trying to steal his son just for the fun of it but honestly just wants to heal her son's pain. He is only 10, he is still her baby.

When was it mentioned that his ex bad mouthed him? Most of that has been speculation unless I'm missing something.


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## torn2012 (Mar 23, 2012)

Carterman

Just like Mikelas I too have been in a situation similar to yours. 3 years ago my ex wife "came out", prompted by her desire to be with a woman she worked with. We had been in a 9 year relationship and have 2 young daughters. Just like you I started a thread here on TAM to seek advice.

Now my situation was a little different in that we quickly came to an agreement around a 50/50 living arrangement for the kids. And while we had some minor disagreements around the parenting aspects at the time, neither of us were as cruel as your wife has been through this process.

There is one bit of advice that stood out from the first session with my counselor that I'd like to share with you. As we discussed the events and the impact of them on me my councilor was quick to point out that my thoughts around how to deal with the living arrangement was focussed on my needs. How I would feel if my kids were not with me.

Now these are important emotions to explore through counseling, but her advice was to separate this from the decision making process. It's a simple concept, common sense even, but i had to have someone look me in the eye and say it before it really sunk in. "The interests of the children must come first."

That aside there are other issues you need to work through. The sexuality issue has taken a back seat in this discussion due to the situation with the children. It is important for you to deal with this as well.

You are what is referred to as a "straight spouse". There are a whole host of emotions that are unique to the straight spouse experience which can be difficult to cope with.

When a closeted spouse comes out they are often embraced by people around them for finally accepting who they are and for having the courage to do so. And while it is right for her family and friends to support her through that process, for the straight spouse left behind it feels like the betrayal of your relationship is glossed over.

As a society we don't accept that it's fair for a married person to enter a second relationship because the new partner is younger, more attractive, has more money, etc. In fact we condemn those who do so. But when the affair is with someone of the same sex the common experience for the straight spouse is that the issue of sexuality takes precedence over the betrayal.

She entered your marriage and had children with you knowing deep down that this was a possibility. You were not given the opportunity to enter the relationship with that same, very important knowledge. You were deceived by someone who ought to have had your best interests at heart.

There is a support group for people like us. It's called the straight spouse network and it has many chapters in the states and abroad. They are easy enough to find through google.

There are also a few books on the subject which you might be interested in. Try looking up "the other side of the closet".

You need to explore this issue in order to come to terms with it. Don’t put it off.

Having been though this myself i recommend the following actions if you haven't already taken them;

- See a doctor to have your mental health assessed. There is no shame in seeking help here - it will be between you and your doctor. Don’t try to tough your way through it, it will only prolong the misery. Get yourself better so you can be the best dad you can possibly be.

- Get a councilor. I was doubtful at first but it does help. What have you got to lose?

- Get a lawyer. Today.

- Get in touch with the straight spouse network. Find out from people who have been in your shoes how they dealt with it.

- And finally, accept help from friends and family when it's offered. I was a proud and self reliant man before my marriage ended. I had to put my pride aside while I sorted my life out because without help I would have been walllowing in misery for much longer than I needed to.

I wish you all the best.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Kacey4 said:


> Yesh she cheated and she was wrong for that but I don't think she's this evil woman that Carterman is painting her out to be. From the information gathered, she did not have a problem with Carterman having the kids most of the time until her son complained about it. I don't believe she is trying to steal his son just for the fun of it but honestly just wants to heal her son's pain. He is only 10, he is still her baby.
> 
> When was it mentioned that his ex bad mouthed him? Most of that has been speculation unless I'm missing something.


You don't think that marrying him under false pretenses is evil? You don't think that bearing his children under false pretenses is evil? You don't think that threatening him with prison if he doesn't toe the line is evil? This is just in addition to what Matt what posted above.

Just what the hell is your definition of evil?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I find it highly coincidental that two brand new posters, who haven't ever commented on another thread, who just signed up today, come here and adamently give the same advice to the OP to give up his kids to the wife. 

Oh well I guess I was a new poster once upon a time.

I will also assume that when one logs off and the other logs on within minutes that that is also a big coincidence.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If I were a cruel person, I'd run a book on the likelihood of Mrs CarterMan cheating on her new wife with either a woman or a man within the next, say, 18 months?


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## Kacey4 (Mar 30, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I find it highly coincidental that two brand new posters, who haven't ever commented on another thread, who just signed up today, come here and adamently give the same advice to the OP to give up his kids to the wife.
> 
> Oh well I guess I was a new poster once upon a time.
> 
> I will also assume that when one logs off and the other logs on within minutes that that is also a big coincidence.


I have better things to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides and I think mom is just trying to protect her kid.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Kacey4 said:


> I have better things to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides and I think mom is just trying to protect her kid.


Nah. She's trying to emasculate her husband. If the son is collateral damage? Oh, too bad!


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Kacey4 said:


> I have better things to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides and I think mom is just trying to protect her kid.


Protect him from what, exactly?


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Kacey4 said:


> I have better things to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides and I think mom is just trying to protect her kid.


"Mom" is only trying to cover her bases and ass. I can only imagine what kind of BS she's been feeding those kids behind his back, even before she got involved with this other b!tch.


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## Kacey4 (Mar 30, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Kacey4 said:
> 
> 
> > I have better things to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides and I think mom is just trying to protect her kid.
> ...


If my daughter came to me crying about staying at her father's house I would do anything I could to make sure she didn't have to stay there. I understand that this woman comes off as a major ***** but claws come out when someone upsets your child.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Kacey4 said:


> I have better things to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides and I think mom is just trying to protect her kid.


You have better things to do, but yet you found the time to come to this website, seek out this very specific thread, create an account, and offer this highly questionable advice. 

I wonder what your true motives are.


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## Kacey4 (Mar 30, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Kacey4 said:
> 
> 
> > I have better things to do. I'm just looking at it from both sides and I think mom is just trying to protect her kid.
> ...


I was lurking this site for quite a while and found this thread. I didn't want to get involved so I brought out the popcorn and read but everyone is ignoring the little details. I had to butt in here.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

Wow... well that was a bit to catch up on haha. 

Update: I'm actually feeling a lot better at the moment. I saw my kids today at their mom's house, she wasn't happy to see me there but her new gf invited me in while my ex gave her "the look" and proceeded to stomp upstairs like a child.

This was the first time I actually entered the house and I spent some time talking to my kids and the OW's kids as well. My kids wanted to play Lazer tag and I was hesitant but the OW said it was okay. It was weird that I almost had to ask permission to play with my kids but it was their house...

When the kids got settled I talked to the OW and if she didn't steal my wife I would probably like her. I asked her about how the relationship started and what not. She told me that by the time she found out about me she was too "far in" and couldn't just leave (bull****). My wife was in the living room during the whole conversation on her laptop pretending not to listen. I think I'm going to take some time to myself while I try to figure **** out. My kids were devestated when I showed up in fear that I was taking them away. I don't know what the morally correct thing to do in this situation is.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

It p!ssed your WW to no end to have her gf acting nice to you.


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## Kacey4 (Mar 30, 2015)

CarterMan said:


> Wow... well that was a bit to catch up on haha.
> 
> Update: I'm actually feeling a lot better at the moment. I saw my kids today at their mom's house, she wasn't happy to see me there but her new gf invited me in while my ex gave her "the look" and proceeded to stomp upstairs like a child.
> 
> ...


Regardless of my stance on this situation it does sound like the OW is trying to butter you up. She's being TOO nice.

**but it's makes no sense that your wife isn't in on it too. Maybe OW is just a nicer person


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How old are your kids?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

I posit this for consideration. The WW met this woman at a supermarket, this was posted by OP. How and when was the relationship developed to the point that the WW was comfortable enough to destroy her home and move in with the OW. Also, in the beginning, the other woman did not even know about OP. Did she know about the children? Did she never inquire as to a father/husband? This seems unlikely as does the WW's impetuous move in with OW.

Is it plausible that this woman is more diabolical than anyone has imagined. She conveniently has damning evidence against OP that could cause loss of employment, evidence which gives her complete control of this situation. Happenstance? Perhaps. 

Or...A well executed plan in which she gets her lesbian mate, the OP is essentially extorted out of the picture and left with the bones they will throw him and she has her own biological children without the need for artificial insemination. Intriguing.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

CarterMan said:


> *My kids were devestated when I showed up in fear that I was taking them away.* I don't know what the morally correct thing to do in this situation is.


This is what I was referring to earlier. What has she been feeding them to make them feel devastated at seeing you and fearing you taking them away? It doesn't make any sense. You're their father!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Kacey4 said:


> Regardless of my stance on this situation it does sound like the OW is trying to butter you up. She's being TOO nice.


Or his wife lied to her and said she was divorced or divorcing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

3putt said:


> This is what I was referring to earlier. What has she been feeding them to make them feel devastated at seeing you and fearing you taking them away? It doesn't make any sense. You're their father!


Or what has HE been doing to make them afraid? He's already said that he's been a bit out of control. Despite what their mom has done - and cheating usually doesn't register much with kids because it's too esoteric for them to deal with - HE is the one who's been showing a lot of emotion. And a lot of emotion can scare kids. And what has he said to her in front of the kids?

Not blaming him, just saying that it's quite possible, if not even probable, that any problem with the kids is a result of HIS reaction or actions. And that is something HE has control over.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

turnera said:


> Or his wife lied to her and said she was divorced or divorcing.


This is a very common tactic with cheaters. Let's face it, if they lie to their BS, why should we assume they won't do the same to their AP? There is no honor among thieves.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

turnera said:


> Or what has HE been doing to make them afraid? He's already said that he's been a bit out of control. Despite what their mom has done - and cheating usually doesn't register much with kids because it's too esoteric for them to deal with - HE is the one who's been showing a lot of emotion. And a lot of emotion can scare kids. And what has he said to her in front of the kids?
> 
> Not blaming him, just saying that it's quite possible, if not even probable, that any problem with the kids is a result of HIS reaction or actions. And that is something HE has control over.


I almost asked about that. Just couldn't pull the trigger on it under the circumstances. It's worth exploring though because, as it is, it doesn't add up.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

turnera said:


> Or his wife lied to her and said she was divorced or divorcing.


And OW is thinking: "Gee. Honey told me she was a single mom. She lied.

"Then she told me her husband was a controlling, vile, evil monster and a horrible father. But he actually came over as a reasonably nice man and a good father.

"Sh*t! Has she been lying to me? yes, damn it, she *has*!

"Hmm. Exactly what else has she been lying about? 

"Wait a minute! She was almost an hour late, yesterday. She seemed a little over-friendly with that woman in the grocery store. And I'm sure she was flirting with my Watch Commander last week!

"God! Is she, maybe, cheating on me like she cheated on her husband?

"Does she love me or not?"

And so it goes.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

My kids have always preferred my wife. When she came home it was like a celebration but when I came home... nothing. We did play together and we did have some sort of relationship, my oldest son and I bonded over sports but he is more interested in books and science which was my wife's thing. 

My two younger one's were also somewhat close to me but nothing compared to the realtionship they had with their mom. My wife says they see me as a dictator but I completely disagree. Her punishments are ten times more harsh then mine (neither of us hit our kids). I may have screamed a bit more but I didn't actually "punish" them as much. She always told me that I can also be a friend to them but I didn't agree. I guess I should have listened to her, eh?


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## Kacey4 (Mar 30, 2015)

CarterMan said:


> My kids have always preferred my wife. When she came home it was like a celebration but when I came home... nothing. We did play together and we did have some sort of relationship, my oldest son and I bonded over sports but he is more interested in books and science which was my wife's thing.
> 
> My two younger one's were also somewhat close to me but nothing compared to the realtionship they had with their mom. My wife says they see me as a dictator but I completely disagree. Her punishments are ten times more harsh then mine (neither of us hit our kids). I may have screamed a bit more but I didn't actually "punish" them as much. She always told me that I can also be a friend to them but I didn't agree. I guess I should have listened to her, eh?


Maybe you were trying too hard to be a "good father" and forgot to really get to know your kids. They could also see you as the parent that screamed and argued which could have scared them.

How does your relationship with your kids differ from your wife's.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

I responded bavknon page 2 or 3 and been trying to keep up with your updates. Wow.. Just crazy. Your wife sounds really heartles . I have had my struggles and I have seen my own parents go through trials and separations (eventually permanent) and I have also worked in family law. Your ex sounds just toxic. I can't believe she would threaten you with some past crime which could destroy your life just to get her way with the kids. It's one thing to argue for custody, and another to seriously threaten to use this against you. 

Your interactions with her new partner are interesting though... But I would still be very wary. 

I do still think something is not quite right here. The transformation with your kids has been quite rapid. I mentioned cult dynamics I'm my earlier comment. Look up "love bombing" particularly in cultic family contexts. It seems like SOMEONE -whether your ex, her partner, or both - has been in your childrens ear. 

Have your children grieved at all that you are now split up and no longer together in the same house? I was devestated as a kid when my parents would split up. We lived with our mum the whole time bit dad lived near by and could visit any time so we saw him heaps. Then when I was14 I moved in with him for a while.

Ah, but i digress...

Your ex is one sick puppy and I am curious to know if she has always had this streak in her against you, like that she would use your past against you in an argument or threaten to expose it to get her way on something. She sounds like she has shown no remorse and her texts to you are very mocking. It sounds like something out of a movie, or one of the more extreme cases I have worked with in family law. (Just for the record I'm not a lawyer, i was a legal secretary for a number of specialist family law lawyers). I was horrified at her reference to her salary and big house compared to you being a security guard. 

Is this the woman you remember marrying?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CarterMan said:


> My kids have always preferred my wife.
> 
> My wife says they see me as a dictator but I completely disagree.
> 
> I guess I should have listened to her, eh?


Yep.

So you can start getting up to speed on how to raise happy, healthy children - WHO LOVE YOU AND WANT TO BE AROUND YOU, start reading everything you can on Authoritative Parenting (not to be confused with Authoritarian Parenting). 

Here's a start:
Characteristics of the Authoritative Parenting Style

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...uthoritative-vs-authoritarian-parenting-style

Authoritative Parenting - A Style for Long Term Success | Foundations Counseling LLC

And, btw, parents should never have to SCREAM at their kids.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

QuietSoul said:


> I do still think something is not quite right here. The transformation with your kids has been quite rapid.
> 
> Have your children grieved at all that you are now split up and no longer together in the same house? I was devestated as a kid when my parents would split up.


He is a screamer. There's probably more. 

Most likely, they are relieved to not be in the same house as him. After all, they freak out when he comes, afraid they will have to GO WITH HIM.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

turnera said:


> QuietSoul said:
> 
> 
> > I do still think something is not quite right here. The transformation with your kids has been quite rapid.
> ...


What are you insinuating? That he abuses them or something? He already said neither of them hit their kids.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

I had a rich uncle and aunt growing up, we use to love staying at their place, got spoilt rotten, lots of naughty food, presents, pool, other kids to play with, video games. Felt like Christmas every day. I was depressed when my parents came to get us, and if I was asked whoninwpuld prefer to live with, of course I would say the big fancy house that was fun every day


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There are many more ways to damage kids than beating them (screaming, for instance). It's quite obvious his WIFE doesn't want to be around him and his KIDS don't want to be around him. I've read of women who chose to live with other women after leaving their husbands simply because they get tired of living with a man and male aggressiveness. He's already demonstrated such aggressiveness in several ways. Sometimes it just gets to be too much.

This is NOT to condone what she did. Just trying to get to the psychology behind the situation.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

OP: Have you spoken to a lawyer yet, or are you simply going to ignore the dozens of posts here telling you that you need to protect yourself from the things that your wife can do to you and probably will?


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

turnera said:


> There are many more ways to damage kids than beating them (screaming, for instance). It's quite obvious his WIFE doesn't want to be around him and his KIDS don't want to be around him. I've read of women who chose to live with other women after leaving their husbands simply because they get tired of living with a man and male aggressiveness. He's already demonstrated such aggressiveness in several ways. Sometimes it just gets to be too much.
> 
> This is NOT to condone what she did. Just trying to get to the psychology behind the situation.


There are many possible reasons his wife may have left him and chosen to have an affair, and many reasons his children have responded this way. But yours is an unfair accusation to make im a suplort forum and when we don't know his full situation


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

QuietSoul said:


> There are many possible reasons his wife may have left him and chosen to have an affair, and many reasons his children have responded this way. But yours is an unfair accusation to make in a support forum and when we don't know his full situation


I'm just accumulating the other stuff he's said - the kids have little connection with him, he wanted a 'sports' connection with a bookworm, he screams at his kids, he has a criminal past that keeps him from moving forward in life, he's considered a dictator in his own home.

I could be way off base. I could not. We only hear one side of this story. But he has kids who barely want anything to do with him. There's gotta be a reason. This whole thing has only been 4 months; maybe all his kids were brainwashed in 4 months. 

The whole situation sucks, but I just want him to be honest with himself about WHY he's in this situation, and if it has anything to do with him, it behooves him to reflect on that and see if there's anything he wants to change moving forward. Maybe that will change the outcome for him and get him more time with his kids. That's why I gave the parenting links.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> She ain't that bad? :wtf:
> 
> She committed adultery. (She ain't that bad, though.)
> She lied to her spouse. (She ain't that bad, though.)
> ...


I agree Matt.

OP,

The OW is bad news. She is an adulterer as well. She may not be militant evil, and may even show a touch of compassion at times (after destroying thins that is) but she is a homewrecker.

WW is clearly divorce material. No redeeming qualities in her whatsoever. 

I am still curious as to what you claim to be past criminal actions. We'll never know because you are probably trying to protect yourself legally. 

If I were you, I would see two different attorneys. The first is a criminal defense attorney just to find out if the other side even has a case or not. Many people think they can get into trouble over things a prosecutor wouldn't even look at. Then I would a a civil attorney regarding divorce and custody.

But right now, it seems that WW wants to extort you into your own self destructive state or a continual state of limbo. You can't do this even if it means losing his own job. You needs to step forward and protect yourself now.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

She's already extorting him. he's got the text to prove it.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

CarterMan, you would do yourself a great, big favor if you come to terms and accept this new reality - not condone it - not just for your own well being but your children's as well. Any attempts to get back at your WW and the OW will only be counterproductive and just end up uniting them more than ever against a common enemy, you.

Another member suggested that you should consider establishing a line of communication with the OW with regards to issues relating to your children. This is something I would also urge you to consider especially since your STBXWW has expressed a desire to harm you.

Last not definitely not least, I add my voice to the choir that is urging you to seek legal counsel ASAP regarding your parental rights and any other legal issues which may cause you problems. If you haven't done so, don't delay and do it today.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Carterman, in know some are asking about the criminal history. Do not write it in this forum or anywhere on the internet, it would not be wise, esp if you do take up the fight for custody and she has $ to burn, it wouldn't take a PI that long to find a written admission


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your wife is blackmailing you. That's a criminal offence. She is clearly nowhere near as smart as she thinks she is.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

What amazes me is the odds are 100 to 1 that a wife will end up alienating her children against the guy she is cheating on verses 
him doing the same to her after the split.
All this speculation about HIS actions being used to justify HER actions is just that.


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

My wife and I have been talking about how to move forward with this divorce. She proposed joint custody while her home being the primary residence. We still need to talk through a few things and she says she wants us to go see a family mediator.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Were you always a security guard? What did you do before?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hookares said:


> What amazes me is the odds are 100 to 1 that a wife will end up alienating her children against the guy she is cheating on verses
> him doing the same to her after the split.
> All this speculation about HIS actions being used to justify HER actions is just that.


IME, the cheating man doesn't vilify the mom to the kids; instead, he vilifies her to HER in an attempt to get her to capitulate. He becomes an assh*ole. He becomes all about the money, and keeping said money from the woman (and thus the kids). Women more often become all about custody.

This has happened in probably 80% of all the cases I've read.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

QuietSoul said:


> Carterman, in know some are asking about the criminal history. Do not write it in this forum or anywhere on the internet, it would not be wise, esp if you do take up the fight for custody and she has $ to burn, it wouldn't take a PI that long to find a written admission


:iagree:


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

CarterMan said:


> My wife and I have been talking about how to move forward with this divorce. She proposed joint custody while her home being the primary residence. We still need to talk through a few things and she says she wants us to go see a family mediator.


finally, progress. But remain cautious


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

CarterMan said:


> My wife and I have been talking about how to move forward with this divorce. She proposed joint custody while her home being the primary residence. We still need to talk through a few things and she says she wants us to go see a family mediator.


Please tell me you have hired an attorney to accompany you to the mediators office.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> CarterMan said:
> 
> 
> > My wife and I have been talking about how to move forward with this divorce. She proposed joint custody while her home being the primary residence. We still need to talk through a few things and she says she wants us to go see a family mediator.
> ...


^^^THIS

Dude you need a lawyer. I worked in law, including family law. She is going legal. You absolutely need to see one asap. Is there a reason you have not?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I said this before CM in five yrs from now your kids will still be kids, but in another couple of years the whole game changes.

In six yrs when he gets his drivers licence it's the start of a whole new world and I know you will get a few visits from him (cuz he will be tired of all the crap from his mom) just to stop by and say hi....and by 18 he will want you even more.

So take it easy don't stress out to much but know that it's goes fast (time)...trust me.

My 26 D is 5 cm she went into labor this morning...I'm going to be a phucking grandpa at 48.......YA I started young LOL.

10 years ago she would not even speak to me...kind "high dad by dad" and out the door.

I never really made a fuss but what she didn't know is I always had an eye on her.

You and your kids will work out just fine....you got a long way to go...but in 6-8 year you will be like were in the hell did the time go???

Hang in there bro and it's time to work on your self keep an eye on the kids from what ever distance works for you and them and live a good life for your self while in preparation for when the kids want their father...or shall I say need there father.



I imagine I'll be taking my old lady to the hospital soon to see if my grand kid got evicted from his current pad.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

BTW I'm with every one else here...get a phucking lawyer!

Your trusting your old lady not to snitch you out and that's not smart...at the very least cover your butt with this "thing" you got hanging over your back and talk to a lawyer about that.

At the very least you will know how much trouble you would be in if/when your old lady snitches you out.

Right now you don't have one phucking option...it's time to change that and get schooled by someone that can give you options and that is a lawyer!!!!!!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Carterman

I give you a lot of credit for going to OW's house and spending time with your kids as well as talking to the OW.

ANd yes you know her and your wife are full of crap.

But you need to deal with it dontcha!

If you go the mediation route definitely engage your own attorney for advice and to review the final paperwork.

And I will say this one more time. Maybe your wife has something she is holding over you. She definitely has it out for you.

But ask the lawyer and see if you qualify for spousal support.

If you do it could be a bargaining chip over her.

You might need it.

Keep moving forward, loving your kids and I will say a prayer that the karma bus picks up those two biotches and takes them for a ride someday.

They deserve it.

Have you spoken to your inlaws lately???

HM


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## quezzie (Jan 8, 2014)

This thread makes me sad. 

Good luck op, please tell your kids you love them, always. That they are the most important people in your life, and that nothing that they do or say can ever change that. That yes, adopted parents can feel this way about their adopted children, but never to doubt that you feel this way towards them. And then show them that. Really, best wishes in an awful situation


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> I posit this for consideration. The WW met this woman at a supermarket, this was posted by OP. How and when was the relationship developed to the point that the WW was comfortable enough to destroy her home and move in with the OW. Also, in the beginning, the other woman did not even know about OP. Did she know about the children? Did she never inquire as to a father/husband? This seems unlikely as does the WW's impetuous move in with OW.
> 
> Is it plausible that this woman is more diabolical than anyone has imagined. She conveniently has damning evidence against OP that could cause loss of employment, evidence which gives her complete control of this situation. Happenstance? Perhaps.
> 
> Or...A well executed plan in which she gets her lesbian mate, the OP is essentially extorted out of the picture and left with the bones they will throw him and *she has her own biological children without the need for artificial insemination.* Intriguing.


I wrote about this earlier and someone implied that this was a homophobic conspiracy line of thinking. It's not though. Gay couples who want children have to come up with alternative means and it must come at the expense of some one else's parental role.

Everyone has read about gay couples in various bizarre custody battles. Same thing with heterosexual couples who hire surrogate wombs in India.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hmm. This sounds to be a possibility. I hope it is not what happened but...


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## CarterMan (Mar 29, 2015)

Uodate

So, my wife and I are pretty much officially getting divorced. I guess I thought that maybe she would change her mind, but that's not gonna happen. 

We will have joint custody of the kids but my ex will be their main residence, which is fine. I would rather that I have the kids for the majority of the time but I think this decision is best for the kids. 

I though that I would feel better after we came to a decision, but the fact that it's really happening freaks me out to be honest. I have to downgrade my house while they upgrade, and I still love my ex, in a way. They also want to take my kids on vacation out of the country next year, and I don't know how to respond to that. 

How do I deal with jealousy? My jealousy has gotten so bad I can't even look at them together. I stay in the car before I pick up my kids so I don't have to see them interact. My ex looks at her gf in a way the she has never looked at me before. Whenever my ex is angry her gf softens her and it makes me feel weird, like all those years were 100% false.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Carterman

Your feelings are valid.

Your wife lied to you for a long time. She cheated on you and has broken up your family.

But in time those feelings will dissipate.

She will just be your ex.

Did she use you? Probably. She got kids from you though. No matter how lesbian they are they needed the sperm my man. 

Don't ever forget that.

Focus on you. Focus on the kids and help them ease into their new life.

I can tell you one thing. When your kids get older they will fully understand what their Mom did to you. They will know and understand.

And no matter how great her GF is she will always be the OW and they will realize that as well.

Your future is in your hands. Now get your D done and go find a real heterosexual woman that loves you and knows herself.

Think about that for awhile.....

HM


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are too involved in trying to make her happy. Unconsciously you have been fighting a losing battle because she may always have been in the closet and could not wind her watch. You cannot know because she wouldn't share her feelings.

Get as much custody of your children as you can.

You will find other women who are not in doubt about their sexuality. Just make certain you don't make your divorce a big story for first and second dates.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

CarterMan said:


> Uodate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go get laid!


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## DeusEx (Mar 7, 2013)

Wow, haven't posted in a long LOOONG time, but I will now.

Read through almost everything so here is what I've got. 

First of all, you need to accept the fact that your marriage is over (the sooner the better) and start moving forward, so get busy. Work more, gym , new hobby, read those books ppl here advised. Anything that will distract you from thinking of your ex and making you feel miserable. Just stop caring about them(the 2 lovebirds not your kids) and start caring about yourself.

Second, as far as I can tell from reading this thread you are a bit of a hot head no? Like screaming, yelling which probabbly scared your kids? Change that, change your attitude. Be more calm, calculated, ''cool''. It's hard right now since not much time has passed, but do try.

Thirdly, change your appearance. Try a new hairdo, new clothes, new shoes, new style. Since yor old life is gone, meet the new one with some fashion. It helps you to feel better and people will definately notice the difference. This one I know personally. Worked for me

How to deal with jealousy? Well, those new shoes and threads will definately help you talk up girls. You don't necessarily need to sleep with them you know. You can just talk. Make yourself realise that she(ex) isn't the only woman in the world. The less you care about her, the less jealous you'll be.

Overall, in my opinion, everything that occurs in life - both good and bad - should be used to forge oneself, to better oneself. Use this painful experience to make a better person out of yourself, learn from your mistakes and from others. Just don't sit around being sulky and miserable. If some forum members are indeed right about your ex and ow brainwashing and badmouthing you to your kids, prove them wrong, by showing the new better you.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Sorry man, must sting like hell. For the record I'd probably stay in the car too. 

Even though it seems like they're rubbing it in your face you need to understand that what you feel, how you feel and if you're hurting simply doesn't matter.
Just like it did before the affair, during the affair and now. You're simply just in the way.

So focus on yourself, your kids. Post here or talk to an IC but most importantly get that venom out your system. The venom sits inside, warps your feelings, stunts your growth moving forward and then you're in a cycle of pain and you don't want that.

She can't see the wood for the trees at the moment. Those moments of tenderness you see, I'm sure that will get old very quickly. She's still in unicorn land and everything is starry.

You now have permission to be a selfish SOB and do whatever the heck you want with regards to your well being, your health and moving forward.

She still hasn't dealt with her sh*t yet has she? She's not owning what she has done. A relationship founded on dishonesty, lies and backstabbing but it will catch up to them. They are cheaters and no matter how much they profess trust and love, once that doubt hits it will rock those rocky foundations to the core.

When it's time and you meet someone else, it will be authentic. That's something she can never have and she might not say it but she'll envy you and that's your revenge, living an authentic life.


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