# She wants a divorce, I don't, help!



## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

There are a ton of issues but to get to the bottom line quickly: 
Two days ago, during a non-fight conversation about things- my wife said she wants a divorce. I asked if there was ANYTHING that could be done to make her reconsider and she said nothing will make her reconsider she is done. We have been together for 12 years and have FIVE young kids. 

Some backstory: 
The understanding we have had since we got together even before any kids was that she was responsible for managing the house, and I was responsible for managing the income. If she wanted help with anything around the house she had to only ask or even tell me. 

Her central issue has been that she is locked away in the house, abandoned with the children all day and I "get to" go to work. She had a point up until about a year ago, after which I have been trying my ass off. 

Things reached a crisis stage just about november 2012, when she seemed to just turn off completely and said then that there was no chance of reconciliation. I went through hell for six months doing absolutely everything I could think of to help her. Things seemed to start getting better at the start of 2013. 

Central issue #2: Her mother likes to take her to the casino every single day of the week. As in, I get home from work and she is walking out the door, and coming home like 6 hours later. At first I blew it off as maybe she was in a phase, then I told her directly but politely that it is my time to and she needs to limit her nights out to two a week. If she is feeling especially generous or cooperative, yes she will only go out twice a week. Otherwise she goes out at least every other day. I can confirm she is with her mom because if I call her moms cell at any point, her mom puts my wife on the phone pretty much right away. 

I had enough of her going out constantly. So when she goes out for that third day I will verbally rip into her "why are you rejecting your family?" and send her a ton of texts and so on. She HATES that. 

Central issue 3: THE INTERNET I like porn and she likes to flirt and have all kinds of heavy sexual innuendo with men online in chat rooms and stuff. We both hate what the other does and can never seem to come to any terms. I would stop looking at porn for awhile and it seemed like she was still ****ting up the chat channels, or she would stop chatting with those guys for awhile and I would be looking at porn. 

That is about it in a nutshell. She hasn't asked or told me to leave, and she is still wearing her wedding band. She still sleeps in the same bed as me though we haven't had sex or fooled around for about a week (about a month on the sex part). When all of this started 6 moths ago she wasn't even sleeping in the same bed as me, she would sleep on the couch. But this time she seems more serious. 

She has said she can see no way of this working out, and she refuses to go to any kind of counseling with me. I suggested living apart and going to counseling for a few weeks, she won't do it. 

Is there any hope? I would do anything to keep my family together and work things out with her.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Get a voice activated recorder to put in her car, maybe in the house and a key logger on the computer.

You'll know in less than a week what you are truly dealing with.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Do the voice recorder thing I am not saying she is cheating but you need to make sure. Now lets talk about if she is NOT cheating.




ohno said:


> Some backstory:
> The understanding we have had since we got together even before any kids was that she was responsible for managing the house, and I was responsible for managing the income. If she wanted help with anything around the house she had to only ask or even tell me.
> 
> Her central issue has been that she is locked away in the house, abandoned with the children all day and I "get to" go to work. She had a point up until about a year ago, after which I have been trying my ass off.


This is where you are wrong you are making this about you versus her. It is not it is you guys together so if she feels this way you need to address it. Not by saying that you are doing things now and she needs to get over it. That is not going to help. You and her both are communicating in a destructive way. It becomes your wrong and I am right. All you get with that is a winner and loser do you want her to feel like a loser? Do you want to feel like a loser? On this you need to sit down without being defensive and talk about it just listen without saying anything make some bullet points on a piece of paper. Once she is done say thanks and that you are going to think about what she has said and get back to her once you have some thoughts. Then walk away come back a few days later and talk about it again but with you points. Again this is not her being wrong and you being right it is about finding something you BOTH agree with and understand. 

Things reached a crisis stage just about november 2012, when she seemed to just turn off completely and said then that there was no chance of reconciliation. I went through hell for six months doing absolutely everything I could think of to help her. Things seemed to start getting better at the start of 2013. 



ohno said:


> Central issue #2: Her mother likes to take her to the casino every single day of the week. As in, I get home from work and she is walking out the door, and coming home like 6 hours later. At first I blew it off as maybe she was in a phase, then I told her directly but politely that it is my time to and she needs to limit her nights out to two a week. If she is feeling especially generous or cooperative, yes she will only go out twice a week. Otherwise she goes out at least every other day. I can confirm she is with her mom because if I call her moms cell at any point, her mom puts my wife on the phone pretty much right away.
> 
> I had enough of her going out constantly. So when she goes out for that third day I will verbally rip into her "why are you rejecting your family?" and send her a ton of texts and so on. She HATES that.


I would to you are freaking out about her going out by degrading her and accusing her of neglecting her family. What did you expect her to do? Be happy you are demeaning her? In marriage you don't use shaming tactics to get what you want nor do you explode with an angry outburst that is degrading to the other person. I am not saying she is justified in doing what she is doing but you are not helping fix it by this behavior. And yes you may have tried other methods before you explode but still exploding is not going to help you marriage. 



ohno said:


> Central issue 3: THE INTERNET I like porn and she likes to flirt and have all kinds of heavy sexual innuendo with men online in chat rooms and stuff. We both hate what the other does and can never seem to come to any terms. I would stop looking at porn for awhile and it seemed like she was still ****ting up the chat channels, or she would stop chatting with those guys for awhile and I would be looking at porn.
> 
> That is about it in a nutshell. She hasn't asked or told me to leave, and she is still wearing her wedding band. She still sleeps in the same bed as me though we haven't had sex or fooled around for about a week (about a month on the sex part). When all of this started 6 moths ago she wasn't even sleeping in the same bed as me, she would sleep on the couch. But this time she seems more serious.
> 
> ...


So you are willing to do anything huh? Well lets start from that the only way to change how she sees you is to change how you treat her. So NO PORN. And I don't care what she is doing you are going to have to work on you before you get anything from her. Is this unfair? Yep you bet but she is checking out so if you want to stay in this you will have to improve as she is at the point where she wants out. Hopefully after a month of improving she may be willing to start trying on her part. So I am going to go through some things you are going to start doing given your post.

1. Date Night. Get a sitter and take her to the casino be attentive to her and be considerate this is date night so no mom. Have fun go to dinner. You need to do this every week multiple times if you can afford it. You have disengaged as her lover and you need to reengage one of the reasons she has pulled away is you have no time TOGETHER as lovers only as mom and dad.

2. No more Angry Outbursts yep you need to retrain yourself if you can't stop texting her demeaning comments turn your phone off and put it in a drawer. If you are in an argument and are starting to lose it you need to be honest and tell her you are starting to get angry and need to walk away. Every time you have one of these outbursts you push her out the door a little bit more.

3. Don't wait for her to ask you for help start looking around at stuff you can help out with. Laundry, dishes, vacuuming you don't have to do it all but take some of the tasks for yourself and do them.

4. Essential reading in THIS order
Love Busters
His Needs Her Needs
5 Steps to Romantic Love

5. I want you to write her a letter filled with all the love you can put into it and address YOUR issued DO NOT address her issues. Tell her you are going to fight for her as she is worth it.

You have a chance but only if you are willing to change and do the heavy lifting by yourself for a while. What nationality are you? Are you in the US?


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

The incredible thing is my career is in private investigations and though most of it is corporate we get the occasional infidelity case. Which of course is never about finding the truth but rather about helping the law firm build its case. So I am familiar with these things and as a result I am positive she is as well. It hadn't occurred to me to use any of these techniques on her, but looking at it now, it is a brain dead yes. 

I want to get into a better response when I have a little more time, but the posts here are so damn good I had to reply right away. I read the 180 plan, jumped into it right away and got immediate results. That in the past several hours. Maybe 180 is the nuclear option so I will scale that back as I study and understand what you guys are saying. 

THANK YOU and more to follow soon.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Why would you scale back the 180? Youre not only doing it to grab her attention youre doing it for yourself. First I would find out if there were someone else - that is really important because its going to dictate how you handle this. If youre in private investigation it shouldn't be difficult. Then you go from there.


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Why would you scale back the 180? Youre not only doing it to grab her attention youre doing it for yourself. First I would find out if there were someone else - that is really important because its going to dictate how you handle this. If youre in private investigation it shouldn't be difficult. Then you go from there.


Your right. Until I find out if there is someone else and maybe even if there isn't I need to keep it going. Seriously the only thing that has brought me happiness (other than my kids) recently is getting my nuts together and living for myself as if she didn't exist as my wife/mother of my kids. I started doing that before but the 180 really focuses things. 

It isn't difficult to trace her at all. Between gps, keystroke loggers, voice activated recorders, and even motion activated cameras that fit unnoticed in a cars airvent (or the curtains or bookshelf or whatever) I can find out pretty quick. I have paid attention to her behavior, monitored her cell, and so forth and haven't found any leads to pursue but if she is doing something she is being extremely careful so ya its worth the extra steps. I'd be shocked if she was doing anything simply because she has to know how easily I could find out.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Look I see where your wife is coming from. For many years I was a sahm and was not in touch with my old friends (he didn't like them) and our kids weren't in school yet so I had no outlet to make new ones. He wouldn't allow me to register our D in gymboree classes ( he was a germaphobe) so I was in the house with her a lot. Then my S came along and same thing. Its a very lonely feeling. (This was right before the dawn of the Internet so that was not an option)
Truth be told after reading your post I think you are both going to need some form of counceling. Your addiction to porn (and I read your other post on a different thread - sorry but I think you have some anger issues to deal with) and her with the flirting on the internet is just not good. Not to mention if shes hanging out in casinos - she may have a gambling problem.
If she knows all the tricks of a PI I guess you may have to think outside the box to see if shes cheating. If shes not - then the two of you have a lot of work to do.


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Look I see where your wife is coming from. For many years I was a sahm and was not in touch with my old friends (he didn't like them) and our kids weren't in school yet so I had no outlet to make new ones. He wouldn't allow me to register our D in gymboree classes ( he was a germaphobe) so I was in the house with her a lot. Then my S came along and same thing. Its a very lonely feeling. (This was right before the dawn of the Internet so that was not an option)
> Truth be told after reading your post I think you are both going to need some form of counceling. Your addiction to porn (and I read your other post on a different thread - sorry but I think you have some anger issues to deal with) and her with the flirting on the internet is just not good. Not to mention if shes hanging out in casinos - she may have a gambling problem.
> If she knows all the tricks of a PI I guess you may have to think outside the box to see if shes cheating. If shes not - then the two of you have a lot of work to do.


I DO and have sympathized with her feeling alone at home but not sure how much I could have done to help. I cut way back on hours at work which hurt our income but it was something at the time we both agreed was a good idea. When our savings got slim I told her I can pick up more hours or she could get a part time job herself to get out of the house and so on. She pretty much left ME in the house 24/7 while I was working less and she never found a job. She hung out with her mom. She said how does it feel to have to do everything alone? It is really hard to work with someone like that. Her resentment at being at home while I was at work for those 4-5 years isn't going away. 

I am making arrangements to go to therapy for my own anger management. I asked her to join me. Even separately. I told her she has a gambling problem. She is deaf to that. 

Yes we have a ton of work to do but she has to at least be willing to work together to do it. It can't just be me. I get mixed signals where that is concerned though because she verbally refuses any kind of compromise but then her actions will sometimes show a compromise. And I let her know I appreciate it. 

But now I think stuff might be permanently broke. She sleeps in the same bed as me but wayyy on the other side, under her own sheets and cover. When two days ago (the night she made the announcement) she made a point to share a blanket and cuddle while we slept, this morning when we both woke up I reached across to just gently touch her hair an she jumped out of bed and stormed out the room and was really hostile or the next two hours. 180 is SO HARD. 

The voice activated recorder and gps go in tomorrow. So I will give it a week to see what is up.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Doing a 180 & sleeping in the same bed? Then you reached out for her? Do you see something wrong with that picture?

See what you come up with. Im along the lines of thinking there may be someone else - but you need proof.

My case may be different because my stbxh made it very hard for me to socialize and it was my fault for not standing up to him. Did you hold her back from socializing with other moms? 

That's good that you are taking it upon yourself to go to counceling for your anger issues - worry about making yourself better don't base it on what shes doing.


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Doing a 180 & sleeping in the same bed? Then you reached out for her? Do you see something wrong with that picture?
> 
> See what you come up with. Im along the lines of thinking there may be someone else - but you need proof.
> 
> ...


I am wondering why you are thinking there may be someone else. I haven't any proof yet but it has only been 1/2 days with the voice recorder and gps. I also neer thought she was cheating because when she goes out, she always says t is with her 62 year old mother. So when she goes out and I call her mother, her mother puts her on the phone. So they are definitely together, whatever she is doing. 

I am screwing up the 180 in may senses but the part of doing things for myself. We had a blow up yesterday because I have a big mouth. I made a smart comment to her which turned quickly into a full blown discussion about divorce. I told her if she wants it to work she has to try to. It can't just be me. She said to live for myself, do the therapy for me, so on. Not for "us". She would in no way shape or form agree to any kind of couples counseling. I told her she just doesn't want it to work so we need to get the papers drawn up. She dropped the bomb on me that sh doesn't want a divorce, that I am the one who wants it. She wants to stay legally married but not be a couple. huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh??????????????????????????????????????????

She is emphatic about that. I said there is no way I am being in a marriage with someone without being a couple with them. No fing way! I said if she wants SPACE, if she wants to totally put the relationship on ice, not sleep together, not have sex with ANYONE or start any new relationships, and in the meantime get counseling, I am all for that. No she doesn't ant a relationship. Huhh??

She said something pretty damn mean to me at that point and I gave her a hurt look and asked her why she would say that? Then she blew up telling me she is not my mom, isn't going to coddle me, isn't my leader or here for guidance or support, that I need to be an individual and fix myself before I can even think about trying to fix any marriage. I said I am going to therapy an fixing my own sht regardless of what happens, but since I am doing that, would she be willing to work on the marriage. Then she blew up again about not being my mom and so on. 

I blew up at her telling me that what she is doing is cutting me and then resenting me for bleeding. Like cutting someones arm off and then screaming at them because your not the hospital. 
She broke down in tears and walked out of the house crying. 

What I didn't know is that she had called my dad while she was walking around outside. Who a little later had called me and tore into me. He has never taken any kind of position on me and her before, never got involved, never gave any advice. He told me we are both sick in the head and need help, but if I am the only one willing to go then I just need to go by myself. He said he doesn't think she wants to leave but things need to change (which is true). 

My wife has what you would call an attitude. I do to. It is part of what made us like each other in the first place. Her and I against the world. Bonnie and Clyde. But when we go at it, I normally blow it off like she is venting. When we really go at it, she breaks down and crys, after a bit of screaming at me until she is red in the face. 

I slept in a guest room we are working on last night. I woke up at about 3am with her in bed with me wrapped around me. I went back to sleep. I woke again at 9am (no work today) with her tickling me. And snuggling. We fooled around just a little bit. When we got up she is punching me hard in the chest and on the shoulders. I grab her hands to stop her and she play-wrestles with me. wtf. Am I losing my mind? 

I am keeping my big stupid mouth shut and keeping all talking with her short and sweet and to the point, no talk abut "us" or anything. She is in a great mood and she isn't talking about anything big either. We had some coffee and listened to some music together, mainly pistol annies "unhappily married" had some laughs and felt a little like bonnie and clyde again.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Ok I'm not sure here but I'm guessing this morning and last night is because she feels she got her way. If shes in touch with your father he may have told her that he talked to you and smoothed things over. Its just a guess - but that's the way I'm seeing it.

You both need to work on your problems. She may not be cheating. There may be someone she has her eye on at the casino - you just don't know for sure right now. You need to be 100% sure.

Its great if you work on your issues independently - you should do that no matter what - but she has issues too that wont magically disappear once you fix your problems. Your marriage problems wont be fixed without mc either. Shes right - shes not your mother - you have to take it upon yourself to work on you but she cant bury her head in the sand either.

When she says she wants to stay married but not be a couple - it means shes cake eating. She gets to live a single life- not have to answer to you & do as she pleases. Meanwhile you are still around in case her whole plan doesn't work out. Do the 180 & stick to it.


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

Thank you small steps for sticking through this thread and giving your invaluable advice. I agree about her having her cake and eating it when she wants to be living together married but as single people. I won't have that. No way. If anything I have told her is absolutely certain it is that I ant our marriage to work and that I will not stay living with her if we are going to lead single lives. 

I said 1/2 days of surveillance last night, I meant one and one half days. Now two full days. 

Now she is up butt. The fooling around thing came up again this early morning (me in the guest room again) and when I reciprocated her teasing she pulled away a little and said sex isn't the way to work on a marriage. I stupidly said since we are adults with adult needs and since we aren't having those needs met by other people we might as well enjoy ourselves (dumbdumbdumb). She got up and started crying saying that I said I am going to sleep with someone else to get my needs filled if we don't start working on things and make them work asap. Huhhhhhhhhhhhh?????

Note (very important) she is the least communicative person I have ever known, especially where her emotions are concerned. And also that she never ever never cries about anything. Even as a show. I have known her close to 15 years and she just never did that. The last two days she has be crying. Not non stop but when she thinks I am have said something messed up. 

Ok ya I need to think less about her head and more about mine. To be honest there are 4 women I have been talking to, phone, texts, email, haven't met with them. I shouldn't be doing that but when she said she wanted a divorce/to stay married and live as single people, when she totally shut me out, I reached out in some other directions. Not sure what to do about that. She talks to men online (skype so ya about the same as a phone call) so its not like I am breaking something (it isn't there to be broke). 

In the end, in about 2 weeks I can be in the first phase of a relationship with a clear-headed kind woman that has a career, a job, some direction other than me, as an individual. I can be moved out and unleashed to pursue my career goals. I can have what I WANT out of life pretty quick. Not what I prefer (I want that with HER FFS). She is a million miles away from that and is operating from a position of weakness, aside from whatever strength I give her. I dunno. Have to figure it out.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

First of all why the heck are you worrying about getting into another relationship when you are still entangled in the one with your wife??? Don't worry about finding someone new - that should be the last thing you are thinking about. Cant you move on with your life and persue your career goals without being involved with a woman? You say you have work to do on yourself - you really shouldn't be starting another relationship until you do that first. 

The fact that the two of you are carrying on online with other people is just not healthy. You are both essentially having emotional affairs with people online.

I can see her communication skills are bad - I think yours might be too. I think your suggestion of "helping each other out" is not a good one. Her jumping into your bed every night is no good. I cant even figure out what shes saying but since she brought up "if we don't start working on things" then maybe its time to ask again - is she willing to go to mc with you? If the answer is no then you know what you have to do. Set boundaries - go for counceling yourself and do 180 & stick to it. Lock your bedroom door at night if you have to.


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

I haven't been seeking anything out in terms of other relationships, I just took the internal seal off of stopping new friendships from forming. I am keeping things light where that is concerned, but I am certainly not going to deny myself the pleasure of female companionship (not sex, just companionship) after the woman I have given my life to has turned her back on me. 

I can and have gone through lengths and depths to make things work and there is a point where it is like "f it, I am going to stop hating life and just enjoy it and let the chips fall were they may". 

If this is where it ends it is where it ends. I want to work on things with her, but it is impossible to do that by myself without her cooperation; I know, I have tried. The ball is in her court. I can pursue career goals and a life without relationships, but why really? Especially when they are more like friendships and not deep emotional or physical bonding. 

Oddly enough things are much improved in a day to day sense with her. She is not hostile to me, and has been rather nice. Surveillance has turned up nothing. In fact she has "opened the books" to a large extent, volunteering passwords, inviting me to join her at her computer while she does her thing. Giving the appearance of her backing away from fooling around online. She wants to do things with me, at least here. But she has to say she wants to try. I am not getting baited by this bull**** again. 

I am thinking she is doing some kind of surveillance on me, and though I have checked for a keylogger and haven't found one, she seems to act on everything I say online. Like the things I am talking about here, she has given the appearance of trying to work on all of it. Again, she needs to verbally commit. But yes, very specific things she is addressing. 

She needs to verbally commit to working on things, see an mc with me, stop fooling around online (period now and forever), and I will be more than willing to work on things with her. 

Otherwise I am going to live my life. Living well is the best revenge.

EDIT/PS: I love her so much and so deeply, she is my best friend. I can forgive indiscretions, I know she can as well. What hurts so much is our friendship breaking. I fking hate that. I think of her all the time. She is funny and cool and the girl I would want to be with if I had just met her now. She needs to talk to me and to stop being so damned negative. Always seeing the worst of everything. We are alive and healthy. FFS I want to put everything else behind us and just enjoy life together. 

She needs more of that from me and less poor me gloomy guss whydontyoulovemehunny. Gotta live, gotta be me and embrace my life. I know she loves me and she will go to that guy when she sees him again. I just hope she doesn't look away from him when he is right in front of her because she is being gloomyguss, and in doing so, lose him. She deserves to enjoy life.


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

Wow big news, it looks like she is going in the army which is something she wanted to do for a log time. She is pretty happy about this because it means she gets to be someone other than my wife and mom of our kids. 

It is also real good news because it means we will be separated from each other while she is in boot camp. She will become the primary breadwinner though I will still work- just much less. I am being 100% supportive of her in this. 

She teased me a little this morning and hinted about not watching porn. I asked her what she was talking about and she hushed up. I will delete the porn from my computer and not look any new stuff up. I want her to stop talking to her internet boyfriends, but really we are not at a place where we can strike verbal deals. I just have to take the initiative and hope she follows suit. 

Still nothing turning up on surveillance. She is becoming ever more open about her internet passwords, cell phone usage, asking me to get stuff out of her purse for her (like she is saying look, I have nothing to hide), leaving her cell always right in front of me if she leaves the room. 

We are not talking about anything heavy. None the less I feel like I really want to send her a message saying, "I will stop looking at porn forever if you stop the internet affairs and flirting". I won't do that because with her there is never a verbal give and take. She takes an action and I either reciprocate or I don't, and half the time I don't know what s going on because she won't talk to me about anything serious unless she is mad and it is really negative.

I think what I am afraid of is the idea she might still want a divorce and is just playing me. You can prove if someone IS cheating but you can never prove that someone is NOT cheating without spending many thousands of dollars to have a 24/7 tail on them. I can't keylog her moms computer, or put any kind of surveillance in her house and if anything really is going on, her moms house would be the hub.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Didn't take much for you to seek out "new friendships", did it? that tells me you're not much into the marriage. Don't know how you can work on a marriage with plan B's sitting in the background.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Didn't take much for you to seek out "new friendships", did it? that tells me you're not much into the marriage. Don't know how you can work on a marriage with plan B's sitting in the background.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No it "didn't take much", just the mother of my 5 kids and wife or 12 years to tell me she wants a divorce and doesn't ant to work on things. 

I didn't make new friends until she made it very clear she did not want to work on the marriage. I asked her, "Are you sure you do not want to work on our marriage?" "I am sure" "Lets be clear about this. You do not want a relationship with me and you do not want to work on our marriage together?" "I do not". 

All she has to do is verbally commit to working on it and my new friends go away. Her wanting a divorce and not wanting to work on things downgraded her from "The only Woman" to "Woman #1, the top priority". No progress would downgrade her even further. 

That isn't my choice,_* it is hers*_. 

Al she has to do is agree to work on things and she is once again upgraded to "The Only Woman". 

There is only one way to take, "I don't want to be in a relationship with you, I don't want to be married to you. I don't want to work on things. STOP asking me". 

I am not a sucker and I am not her fool.


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

The good news is my new friendships may be coming to an abrupt halt. She has not verbally committed to working things out but instead is changing her behavior in a way that positively affects our marriage. 

I told her today that I appreciate the change. She said, "I am not doing this for you, I am doing this because it is right". Ya I think this is going somewhere. We shall see.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ohno said:


> No it "didn't take much", just the mother of my 5 kids and wife or 12 years to tell me she wants a divorce and doesn't ant to work on things.
> 
> I didn't make new friends until she made it very clear she did not want to work on the marriage. I asked her, "Are you sure you do not want to work on our marriage?" "I am sure" "Lets be clear about this. You do not want a relationship with me and you do not want to work on our marriage together?" "I do not".
> 
> ...



I wasn't meaning to suggest that you should be her sucker or her fool. In fact, the set up she wants is ludicrous and reeks of you as plan B. She doesn't want to be a couple but doesn't want you sleeping with anyone else? Good one. Maybe it would have been better to say that someone who had no problem jumping from a 12 year marriage to "new friends" that quickly is either a terrible prospect at present or has been detached for a while. since you still want the marriage I assumed the former. If she claims to be done then call her bluff; file for divorce, get out of the marriage and then worry about "new friends". Even though she's put you in a sh$tty position it's still going to look unsavory if you're pursuing other prospects while still living with and married to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I wasn't meaning to suggest that you should be her sucker or her fool. In fact, the set up she wants is ludicrous and reeks of you as plan B. She doesn't want to be a couple but doesn't want you sleeping with anyone else? Good one. Maybe it would have been better to say that someone who had no problem jumping from a 12 year marriage to "new friends" that quickly is either a terrible prospect at present or has been detached for a while. since you still want the marriage I assumed the former. If she claims to be done then call her bluff; file for divorce, get out of the marriage and then worry about "new friends". Even though she's put you in a sh$tty position it's still going to look unsavory if you're pursuing other prospects while still living with and married to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for the sound advice. There are so many complications. We had long term financial and living plans that looked like they were going nowhere and now they are finally coming to fruition. She is on her final interview in a really great job that would provide for our family better than I can at the moment, it would mean more cash, great family medical benefits, a retirement, moving into a much much better house in another state far away from many of the triggers of our current problems. It is something we planed together on somewhat of a lark last year and never seriously expected it to happen. But it is happening now and if things were good between us it would be like a dream come true.

Yes I feel like plan B, but if I were plan B I don't think she would be keeping me around when she has this excellent job. It is the Army and she is going in at a fairly high pay grade due to having some obscure skills that the Army currently is in need of and paying for. On the other hand, without me she can forget about getting in, due to the children. 

You are right about calling her bluff, but if I did that I think she would want to reconcile and it would be hard to think that was genuine when her job depends on me being her spouse. 

*Hold the press* just exactly right when I finished writing that paragraph she wanted to talk for a minute (thats incredibly rare). She said she wants to reconcile, has too much invested in this to give up on it, but that SHE can't do it alone and that she won't stay with someone who won't cooperate with her in terms of managing the household, the kids and so on. That when she goes in the army it will be on me to do pretty much everything at the house (she will be in training a long time and could be deployed overseas) and that she has been scared because I haven't shown myself capable of that until recently. I didn't take her army prospects too seriously and apparently she really really did. She said literally, "I just don't want you to think that if you don't do anything and just lay around the house all day that I will stay with you". 

I told her I know I cant be "that guy" anymore regardless of whether or not she is in my life. I also told her I can't be plan B, and if it is a marriage of convenience or if she just wants to live with me and not have any kind of relationship, if she doesn't want to work on our marriage, she can't expect me to stay around either". Omg we agreed on something.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ohno, fyi I an am army vet and I can tell you that it is a tough life that strains the best of marriages. Depending on what she does she will be away a lot, the hours are long, there's a lot of bs, you will be a single parent a lot of the time, and there are many, many opportunities to cheat. Especially for women. There are a lot of desperate men and the attention can be hard for some women to resist. Good luck, I wish you both happiness.
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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

lifeistooshort- 

The Army move will be huge for all of us. She was essentially a single parent for my first 4 years with the PI firm, I can cary that torch for awhile and am well prepared for it. If we are away from each other for many months I don't expect her to go without, I just expect her to be honest with me and to always make me #1. The same goes with me. And no this isn't any kind of open marriage. We will talk about it and come to an agreement. 

The even better news is we are reconciling. After some discussion I realized I wanted the divorce as much as she did and was pretty much putting the blame squarely on her for not verbally agreeing to try to work things out while I was also doing some behaviors that showed I don't want things to work out. Like seeking female companionship elsewhere. We had a couple of discussions which were very brief, not emotionally charged, and to the point. No bs talks about the reality of our lives. The lack of drama was refreshing to say the least. When you can train yourself to choose to not get angry, and when your mate can do the same, it is a really nice feeling. Not euphoric, just nice. Like "Oh I am sane after all. And look zomg she is to!". 

She is not good verbally at all, in terms of articulating herself or being at all polite or kind. She is just a really hot woman with a really sharp wit, a hard edge and an acerbic personality. But she writes really well and does a good job of communicating how she feels and thinks through a kind of prosy writing style. I got a very long letter very early this morning, explaining how she feels. 

She feels very much like how I feel. To be really honest and blunt we had the kind of relationship that pissed off other couples- we were best friends and had each others back no matter what, right or wrong, me and her against the world. She wants to get back to that in the worst way. So do I. My god. 

And no I don't usually receive letters from her. It is very rare. My whole issue with her internet sex chat and flirtations and emotional affairs was just that she was giving that billing over me, which is unacceptable. I am pretty secure and I know no one could ever have her the way I have and still do. But when I come in the house and she is chatting to some dude online she needs to tell him her Man is home and she is going to spend some time with him. I honestly don't care about online flirting, texting, sexting and so on, as long as I am top dog to her. Funny when the alpha in me woke up and stayed that way, he got the attention, he got top billing. As ****ed up as it sounds, when I #1 took more responsibility around the house and with the kids #2 stopped putting up with her **** and #3 demonstrated in no uncertain terms that I can attract and maintain the attention of attractive successful women, her attitude slowly morphed for the better. 

So to make a long story short, I am not really worried about her cheating while in the army. She knows where her bed is. So do I. 

Thanks for reading and the support!


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