# Lost spark cliche?



## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

First time on the site and really am just looking to see if I'm justified or being ridiculous. My wife and I have been together for 17 years, since high school. We have two kids. We never really fought or had issues but when we did it was a bigger incident. I stressed she had to talk and find less dangerous ways to release stress than walking 15 miles across town, I think her fix was to bury her feelings and I couldn't seem to get her to talk anymore, she just submitted. She's had bouts of depression but resists going to a counselor or openly talking to me without said incident. 

As far as my issue, sex is a big part of a relationship for me. At first it wasn't an issue, the last 10 years it's declined sharply. Part of it was she gained weight for reasons outside her control and had trouble losing it, I assured and showed her that I was still attracted to her. I used my drive to run our sex life for the last decade. I've said multiple times I wasn't happy with it and she told me once that she didn't want me to stop trying/flirting even if she regularly shut me down. I've tried everything from tell me when you're ready to signing her up to sell toys for a company she liked. I love putting my arms around her or putting my hand on her leg while we drive but it was never reciprocated. Any affection comes from obligation. I'm tired of trying, I've lost any motivation to keep it alive, I'm convinced I've done about everything I can. I'm tired. 

Last part, I've known this was an issue but have accepted it until recently. Why? You guessed it, someone showed me flashes of everything I think I want. Nothing's happened though. I've had a few woman catch my attention and realize I've been looking outside my marriage for a long time. I think the realization is that I want out, not because there's someone I'm interested in, just that I'm tired. I'm tired of pushing off what I want, eventually I think I'll break and end my marriage that way but don't want to do that to my wife or kids. 

That's hard to sum up... thank you for reading though, it's hard to find people to talk to about this. Any thoughts? There are no terrible causes like cheating or abuse, I almost feel like I'm not justified to ask for a separation. Thanks for any advice.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

If your going to cut bait be sure to be a man and get a divorce first.

Sexless stuff that drive men to insanity: You can find plenty of guys in your shoes around here. I'm going to give you the easy solution ..... get out. The large majority remain miserable forever.


Are you SURE and I do mean SURE that this wasn't brought on by the "new chick" on the side and your getting some clouded judgement ????? Have you REALLY disliked your wife for a long time?
Or maybe perhaps you dislike her a lot more just recently ??????

Make sure to check yourself for whats real.....


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Definitely don't want to do anything that would mess up our relationship even through a divorce, I still respect her as person and mother to my kids. 

I've wondered about if I got a divorce and never had a chance with the other woman, I think I'd still be happy with my decision. I'm mostly unsure since we started dating at 15 so I have very little experience in dating or breaking up.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You must make sure that she knows that you are considering ending the marriage. She may have no idea, and it would be so cruel to just spring it on her. This happened to a lady I knew. Her husband out of the blue gave her divorce papers, (he was cheating). She had a severe breakdown and spent a long time in hospital. Also get some good marriage counselling once she is aware of how you feel. There is a lot you can both do to save this marriage IF you want to, but I suspect you don't as the grass is always greener isn't it.:crying: . 

Don't go looking elsewhere. I strongly suspect that there is another woman on the scene, maybe nothing has happened maybe it has, but the offer is there? Not sure what sort of woman would go after a married man, not one with any moral values that's for sure. You must cut off ALL contact with her. She is deadly for your family. 
When there is someone else on the scene, people always try and make their marriage seem as bad as they can, to themselves and to others(like you are doing with us here), to try and justify why they want to leave. It doesn't wash to be honest. Not with me and not with many others here I suspect. 

Think also of your children whose worlds will be shattered if you leave. Think of the massive effects your decision will have.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I see it this way, if your unhappy then it tends to make others unhappy. There is nothing to hold you back and so do what you must. It seems you exhausted many ways to engage your wife. I know I couldn't put up with my wife telling me not to give up and try to convince her in to some romance, and continue to act like a dead fish. Marriage is not supposed to work like that. 

And trying to fix another isn't possible, they must choose what is important to them in their lives. And by what you described your not her first priority. So lay down some final ultimatum's see if this moves her. If not do not have but go through with the divorce. Play no games.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

I think you're making a good choice and have the right attitude about it. You should see a lawyer first and then have a sit down talk with your wife about the next steps forward. Be prepared for tears and for her to make a bunch of promises that she might not keep. Decide before hand if there's anything she could do to fix this and if there's not or you don't feel like waiting around to find out, hold firm on the separation no matter what she says. It's very common for a divorce talk to spark temporary change in your spouse regarding sex and intimacy as a last ditch effort but it's rare for a spouse to put in the real work necessary - with an IC/sex therapist/MC - to make long lasting changes that you will need for this marriage to work.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Bob E said:


> Definitely don't want to do anything that would mess up our relationship even through a divorce, I still respect her as person and mother to my kids.
> 
> I've wondered about if I got a divorce and never had a chance with the other woman, I think I'd still be happy with my decision. I'm mostly unsure since we started dating at 15 so I have very little experience in dating or breaking up.


Bob, listen, because so far you are not... It is not the woman that came on to you, or the next three. If your wife will not work on her issues, then you are within your rights to divorce her. 

What everyone saying is a couple of things. Don't worry about this woman, be sure that you want to divorce because your wife has issues, or does not find you attractive and you have tried to fix or work on the issue and had no luck.

Next, there are literally more women out there than you have time to date provide you are not fat, stupid, horrible in bed or whatever, that that is not your issue. 

And, your wife is going to be hurt no matter what. So, have a real conversation with her and give her a chance to get herself together. That conversation goes, something like this' "The lack of affection, and the lack of sex in our marriage is a no go for me. We fix this together of I am getting a divorce...



Diana7 said:


> You need to make sure that she knows that you are considering ending the marriage. She may have no idea, and it would be so cruel to just spring it on her. Also get some good marriage counseling. Don't go looking elsewhere.


Read this (above), at least give her a chance if you can...


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

I've brought up issues and tried to start conversations but haven't brought up I'm thinking of divorce; I've thought about bringing it up and saying we should get counseling as an alternative.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

That makes sense, I think that's what I'll do as soon as I can. Thank you


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Come-on Bob E, you are already dancing around this means you, get off the pot or ****. Indecisiveness leads you nowhere fast.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Bob E said:


> That makes sense, I think that's what I'll do as soon as I can. Thank you


To whoms quote are you referring to?


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

BluesPower said:


> Bob E said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely don't want to do anything that would mess up our relationship even through a divorce, I still respect her as person and mother to my kids.
> ...


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

You need to decide what will work for you. Some men can put up with this for a lifetime and they manage to stick it out. Some men are not able to live this way and they get divorced and move on with life. 

When I was in a similar spot, I realized that I would be happier and more content being single than to continue struggling with intimacy. The struggle wears you down and makes you wonder if you are the only one that cares about your relationship. 

The way to handle this is to decide for yourself if you can live this way or not. If you can not continue on this way then you need to be very honest with your wife and tell her that your relationship is not working for you. When you tell her, you can also talk about divorce and how you can make co-parenting work etc.

As other have said; do not look for anything outside your relationship. Deal with your wife and relationship first. If you end up divorcing then you can look for someone else.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Your post makes me sad. 

And it's frustrating that people take their marriages for granted and don't listen when their spouses very clearly speak up over and over again about problems.

Marriage is a discipline - just like getting out of bed to workout or limiting your calories or doing your best at school or your job.

Doing anything well takes effort every single day. 

People need to wake up and pay attention. 

It's just heartbreaking.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Bob E said:


> First time on the site and really am just looking to see if I'm justified or being ridiculous. My wife and I have been together for 17 years, since high school. We have two kids. We never really fought or had issues but when we did it was a bigger incident. I stressed she had to talk and find less dangerous ways to release stress than walking 15 miles across tow*n, I think her fix was to bury her feelings and I couldn't seem to get her to talk anymore, she just submitted*. She's had bouts of depression but resists going to a counselor or openly talking to me without said incident.
> 
> As far as my issue, sex is a big part of a relationship for me. At first it wasn't an issue, the last 10 years it's declined sharply. Part of it was she gained weight for reasons outside her control and had trouble losing it, I assured and showed her that I was still attracted to her. I used my drive to run our sex life for the last decade. I've said multiple times I wasn't happy with it and she told me once that she didn't want me to stop trying/flirting even if she regularly shut me down. I've tried everything from tell me when you're ready to signing her up to sell toys for a company she liked. I love putting my arms around her or putting my hand on her leg while we drive but it was never reciprocated. Any affection comes from obligation. I'm tired of trying, I've lost any motivation to keep it alive, I'm convinced I've done about everything I can. I'm tired. SO, she I'm sure is carrying a LOT of resentment based on the bolded above. Due to this resentment, that could certainly be why the sex from her side is closed off. You let her NOT talk to you about things -- if you really want your marriage, you NEED TO GET HER TO TALK with you. Maybe MC, but you need to clear those lines of communications or this will only get worse.
> 
> ...


If the main issue with you is the sex and lack of affection, you NEED TO GET HER TO TALK. Use a priest, use a MC, use her parents, whoever you need to get her to talk things out with you. You should read the 5 Love Languages by Chapman to see how maybe neither of you are addressing the other in the way that you need. Sounds like you need touch -- maybe SHE doesn't value that but needs words of affirmation -- whatever it is, it will help you communicate better with her.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

LeftField/Minimalme
I don't think it's something I can continue. It's frustrating cause I'm sure I've made my fair share of mistakes but it's hard to make any progress. 

Jlg07
I've tried getting her to talk to someone a few times over the years, I'm pretty much forcing her hand now. Hopefully it works and helps.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Bob E said:


> LeftField/Minimalme
> I don't think it's something I can continue. It's frustrating cause I'm sure I've made my fair share of mistakes but it's hard to make any progress.
> 
> Jlg07
> I've tried getting her to talk to someone a few times over the years, I'm pretty much forcing her hand now. Hopefully it works and helps.


Just to clarify (I'm pretty sure you did mean this) you mean BOTH of you talk to someone as opposed to HER alone talking to someone, yes?
What were her reasons to NOT do that? When you talk to her now, tell her she needs to put her cards on the table -- you are at that point. It does sound like you have to force her now since the dynamic in your marriage has NOT been to talk like that for years.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

I've been trying for a long time for her to go. Now I'm looking definitely to go with if she's willing to go


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Bob E said:


> I've been trying for a long time for her to go. Now I'm looking definitely to go with if she's willing to go



If she realises how serious you are about this, she will have a choice as to whether to go to MC with you, or loose her marriage. At least give her that chance. You BOTH must do all you can to save this marriage for the sake of the children, and for you that means no more contact with the OW who is NOT a friend of your marriage. If you have your focus on the OW the marriage will never work.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Can you be honest and say what is happening with the OW? You are keeping very quiet about her and who she is and what has happened so far. Is she a work colleague? is she married? Has their been any physical contact? Dates alone together? Do you text?


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> If you have your focus on the OW the marriage will never work.


I think I have been too focused on the grass being greener mentally, something for me to watch in the future.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Hey Bob,

I think as others have said you should let her know upfront and not just drop the bomb.

It would be important for you to be able to accurately define to her what you consider to be a healthy sexual marriage and why it is important to you. Be prepared for the fact that it can be EXTREMELY difficult for some women to come to the understanding that many men experience love primarily through sex. 

Imagine if she were trying to convince you and make you understand why you should love shopping for shoes. 

You need concrete objectives: I’m giving you 6 months to turn it around, we will seek a councilor.....etc etc etc 

She needs clear goals and direction if she is to succeed..... don’t just leave her hanging out there to figure it out.

With that said if she can’t even clearly and whole heartedly talk about it then your screwed anyway.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Bob E said:


> I've brought up issues and tried to start conversations but haven't brought up I'm thinking of divorce; I've thought about bringing it up and saying we should get counseling as an alternative.


You are already dancing around it. You MUST be direct, and you MUST mean it. This changes, or I am done. Period. Skip the tapdance.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

3Xnocharm said:


> Bob E said:
> 
> 
> > I've brought up issues and tried to start conversations but haven't brought up I'm thinking of divorce; I've thought about bringing it up and saying we should get counseling as an alternative.
> ...


Bob....read the above again. 3xnocharm is right on the money. If you say something you will have to stick to it and see it through.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Can you be honest and say what is happening with the OW? You are keeping very quiet about her and who she is and what has happened so far. Is she a work colleague? is she married? Has their been any physical contact? Dates alone together? Do you text?


Yeah of course, we work together and she got divorced about 2 years ago. We're both military and recently deployed together for 6 months to basically a vacation, beaches and drinks every weekend. If we hung out it was in a group and nothing physical happened or almost happened. The most physical contact we had was I walked her home after she thought another guy was feeding her drinks, she let out some tears, we hugged and she went upstairs. Looking back she stopped after the hug and stared into my eyes seemingly leaving herself open for a kiss, I didn't and she didn't but I did want to. No dates or outings by ourselves. We do text, mostly about work stuff but some joking around. It does get flirty sometimes, in person I try consciously not to flirt or pay extra attention to her. 

Something that's weighed on my mind and led me here is for the 6 month deployment I barely let my mind break away from my marriage, I told myself it's because I'm away from home, I'm sex deprived, when I get home any feelings or thoughts would go away. If anything they've gotten worse. For the first few weeks my wife and I were disgustingly cute and all over each other, but that's always how it works. I get home, we're great, and something small stops everything in its tracks- she gets a cold, hurts her ankle, has her period. Bam, back to the everyday struggle like nothing changed. 

My wife has told me that the OW has a thing for me, I assure her nothing happens. I know she's not stupid, she knows there's energy there. But I get more confused cause there are woman she's concerned about, at the same time I say I'm not happy about our sex life, and nothing changes. Is too far out to put together? 

I tried for a long time to keep my mind from wandering and fantasizing about the OW but I have more and more recently. A hundred conversations have run through my head leading to anything from "we need to be friends" to taking her on a date and kissing her. A week or two ago I was talking to her for about 20 minutes, not about anything in particular. I realized the rest of the day I was smiling, not a thought in my mind, just felt good. It was unsettling how bizarre it felt. After that any questions I had about my marriage went into overdrive. Maybe it's a knee jerk reaction but damn that's hard to get over.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

I would sit down with her and stress that you feel that you guys have a serious problem. Encourage her to go to marriage counseling with you. In my experience, when people have a problem like this, they easily see the problems in the other person but are blind to their own problems. Going to counseling together may help you both. I would not talk to her about divorce at this point. Remember, this isn't just about you and your needs. It also about the needs of your children.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> 3Xnocharm said:
> 
> 
> > Bob E said:
> ...


You're definitely right, I've hoped that I could start the conversation but it hasn't worked in the past and there's no reason for it to work in the future.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> Imagine if she were trying to convince you and make you understand why you should love shopping for shoes.





FalCod said:


> Encourage her to go to marriage counseling with you. In my experience, when people have a problem like this, they easily see the problems in the other person but are blind to their own problems.


I'm sure I have my own issues and causes to the problem, I've tried to find out what they are but it's something I think MC would help best with.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

You do realize you are already cheating on your wife? You are having an EA with your coworker and all those talks and texts are stealing away from your marriage.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Just out of curiosity:

When was the last time you took your wife on a real date ?

How often do you lovingly touch your wife without sexual intentions?

Are the kids hanging all over her all day?


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> Just out of curiosity:
> 
> When was the last time you took your wife on a real date ?
> 
> ...


We've been on more recently actually, couple weeks ago was the last. We'll get dinner, go to an escape room, go watch football and have some drinks. The last week I've lost motivation to do much, it hasn't changed her actions either way. 

I used to touch her just to show that I was all the time, almost every opportunity. Put my arm around her waist in the kitchen, my hand on her leg in the car, my hand on her side while she falls asleep. She likes to stay in a chair in the corner though so I can sit or lay with her, I tell gee her there's room on the couch and I get either, but I'm just tired I want to sit here or what seems like an obligatory move to sit with me. 

She has the kids on her sometimes but they're usually in me cause they don't see me as often cause I'm at work. 

It's more of a fight to get her off of Facebook than to get her away from the kids.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Bob E said:


> Yeah of course, we work together and she got divorced about 2 years ago. We're both military and recently deployed together for 6 months to basically a vacation, beaches and drinks every weekend. If we hung out it was in a group and nothing physical happened or almost happened. The most physical contact we had was I walked her home after she thought another guy was feeding her drinks, she let out some tears, we hugged and she went upstairs. Looking back she stopped after the hug and stared into my eyes seemingly leaving herself open for a kiss, I didn't and she didn't but I did want to. No dates or outings by ourselves. We do text, mostly about work stuff but some joking around. It does get flirty sometimes, in person I try consciously not to flirt or pay extra attention to her.
> 
> Something that's weighed on my mind and led me here is for the 6 month deployment I barely let my mind break away from my marriage, I told myself it's because I'm away from home, I'm sex deprived, when I get home any feelings or thoughts would go away. If anything they've gotten worse. For the first few weeks my wife and I were disgustingly cute and all over each other, but that's always how it works. I get home, we're great, and something small stops everything in its tracks- she gets a cold, hurts her ankle, has her period. Bam, back to the everyday struggle like nothing changed.
> 
> ...


Yup, its honest so that being said your already checked out and any minor occurrence from you wife. Your gone I wouldn't give it any more time you are showing signs of infidelity an EA. And that's now fair to her you should have manned up yrs ago now your window shopping knowing you have a fall back or plan B, your now worse than your wife in the sense of any truthfulness. And unless you go completely no contact with the other woman. There's no hope and you need to tell your wife what you did and leave it up to her if she wants to stay married to you. 

All the so called suffering you have experience is of less significance that what you done to her your just deflecting it so you can live with yuiself.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> Just out of curiosity:
> 
> How often do you lovingly touch your wife without sexual intentions?


Something that's frustrated me on this topic is I'll give her foot massages, manicures (as best as I can🤷‍♂️), ankle massages, etc every time by a simple request.

I've had back and neck issues for years, I ask for a massage and 10 time of 10 she's tired, her hands hurt, not feeling good. 

I've gotten into a type of massage for my back and given advice to several people that has helped. My wife, my back hurts, I got excited and said let me show you this. First step, breathe with your stomach. She refused the words from my mouth, 'your lungs are in your chest though'. 'Yeah I know, trust me breathe with your stomach's. Couldn't, wouldn't trust the words from my mouth. Asked Google, hey! Looks like you can breathe with your stomach. That's happened a bunch of times with different things, I can convince a strange of something before I can convince her. I can't force help, she won't do anything to help herself...


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

If your wife knew of every text you ever sent that girl and every single thing you ever told her ........ how do you think she would feel ?

People do fall out of love, this is true, but it seems you are a bit too interested in new girl. 

Your going to end up being “cheating bastard that caused our divorce “ if you keep going down that road.

No person here will argue that all people deserve love in the way they need it, but they will all likely agree your heading down the wrong road to get there. 

I get it ..... it is easy to enjoy the attention. 

Handle matters with your wife.

Maybe you could make a list of 10 things you like about your wife. Read it every time before you text new girl.

Moral compass .... keep it true.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

This whole situation with your wife is not going to work out as long as you have one foot firmly planted out the door (OW)
Either cut it off with OW and focus on your marriage or be a man and get out (divorce)

If you decide to work it out with your wife, you need to sit her down. NO DISTRACTIONS. Get rid of Facebook, phones, kids.
Look her in the eyes and tell her that you are serious.
Explain to her that while women think it's just "sex", for you it is love, caring, connection. It's so important that you are willing to leave the marriage because by not being intimate with you, you feel unloved and unwanted. STOP CALLING IT SEX. It's not sex, its intimacy. When worded as sex women think "great, he's a sex maniac" She doesn't realize how important this is to your very being.
Request a sex therapist/MC. She MUST go as a condition of the marriage remaining intact. NO EXCUSES.

Now, as for you. Do not go to the MC thinking "great, I'm gonna get laid every day and all my problems are solved" No sir.
There is work for YOU to do. As others suggest, read "His Needs, Her Needs" and "The 5 Love Languages"
Learn what your wife needs to feel loved, cared for and connected. It may NOT be intimacy.

I wish you good things. Its never good when a marriage ends. STOP the roving eye and focus on what you have. There are many here who's partner stepped out of their marriage only to deeply regret what they did. But the damage to the remaining spouse is devastating.
Respect her enough as the mother of your children to let her make an informed choice.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Bob E said:


> Something that's frustrated me on this topic is I'll give her foot massages, manicures (as best as I can🤷‍♂️), ankle massages, etc every time by a simple request.
> 
> I've had back and neck issues for years, I ask for a massage and 10 time of 10 she's tired, her hands hurt, not feeling good.


You have taught your wife over these years how to treat you. You have taught her that it is ok to ignore your needs and put you last, while you sit there continuing to coddle her and kiss her butt. This works for her. You have allowed her to walk all over you and dismiss you, and this makes you weak in her eyes. Women loathe and abuse weak men. This is for sure something you need to fix, or any new woman you bring into your life is going to end up treating you exactly like this, including that other woman you keep fantasizing about. Who by the way, you need to cut contact with until you get your crap together.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Bob E said:


> I've brought up issues and tried to start conversations but haven't brought up I'm thinking of divorce; I've thought about bringing it up and saying we should get counseling as an alternative.


The thing here is you have approached your W with your concerns. She appears to have not paid attention nor looked to change things. The next step is talk of separation and the reason. She should not be surprised.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Bob E said:


> Yeah of course, we work together and she got divorced about 2 years ago. We're both military and recently deployed together for 6 months to basically a vacation, beaches and drinks every weekend. If we hung out it was in a group and nothing physical happened or almost happened. The most physical contact we had was I walked her home after she thought another guy was feeding her drinks, she let out some tears, we hugged and she went upstairs. Looking back she stopped after the hug and stared into my eyes seemingly leaving herself open for a kiss, I didn't and she didn't but I did want to. No dates or outings by ourselves. We do text, mostly about work stuff but some joking around. It does get flirty sometimes, in person I try consciously not to flirt or pay extra attention to her.
> 
> Something that's weighed on my mind and led me here is for the 6 month deployment I barely let my mind break away from my marriage, I told myself it's because I'm away from home, I'm sex deprived, when I get home any feelings or thoughts would go away. If anything they've gotten worse. For the first few weeks my wife and I were disgustingly cute and all over each other, but that's always how it works. I get home, we're great, and something small stops everything in its tracks- she gets a cold, hurts her ankle, has her period. Bam, back to the everyday struggle like nothing changed.
> 
> ...


Well done for being so honest but you have to stop this texting and flirting and fantasising about the OW. You are not free to be with her, you are a married man. Put you energies into your family and marriage.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Bob E said:


> For the first few weeks my wife and I were disgustingly cute and all over each other, but that's always how it works. I get home, we're great, and something small stops everything in its tracks- she gets a cold, hurts her ankle, has her period. Bam, back to the everyday struggle like nothing changed.


She was interested when you first got home, but then something happens and she turns cold? It sounds like she has it in her, but something throws her off every time and you can't get her to talk about it.

Like others have said, she is being coddled. Coddling her isn't helping either of you.

It's time to start reading some books and time to let her know that this one way marriage isn't working for you. You don't ask her to go to marriage counseling with you. You tell her that this marriage is over unless some changes are made, starting with marriage counseling. She seems to have abandoned the marriage and apparently doesn't realize that you are getting ready to divorce her. Like Diana said, don't spring divorce on her. Let her know in no uncertain terms what is going to happen if changes aren't made.

But you have to be willing to take a good hard look at yourself and make any necessary changes to how you do things as well. It takes two people to make a good marriage, but only one person to destroy it. At the moment, it looks like both of you have been doing things to destroy your marriage. That has to stop if things are going to get better. You seem to have a handle on what you are doing and have been honest about the OW. I'm glad that you haven't taken it further, but this fantasy life is going to break you and the marriage down if you don't stop. Your wife, otoh, doesn't seem to recognize that she that she is being a destructive force in the marriage and she needs to come to reality.

Edit to add:
I am not saying it is the right thing to divorce her over this. I am saying that if you plan to divorce her over this that you need to be very clear with her and give her an opportunity to do something about it. Springing it on her, especially after you've been doing all sorts of things that give her the impression you're really into her could cause her to have a serious breakdown.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

aquarius1 said:


> This whole situation with your wife is not going to work out as long as you have one foot firmly planted out the door (OW)
> Either cut it off with OW and focus on your marriage or be a man and get out (divorce)
> 
> If you decide to work it out with your wife, you need to sit her down. NO DISTRACTIONS. Get rid of Facebook, phones, kids.
> ...


I believe a man's need for intimacy increases greatly as he gets older and is nearly-always mistaken by women as a need for "sex." Based on a sample size of one (me). And intimacy is a more important issue, for a marriage, than "sex." So you have this really toxic potential where a woman might be seeing "sex" as less-important over time, while the man sees "intimacy" (communicated through intercourse) as being more-important, and how can anything good come from that?


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

I've been reading these just been at work so it's hard to reply individually. 

Thank you for both sides of it, it definitely makes sense that I relay what I want as just sex when really it is the contact, care, and intimacy in general. I definitely coddle her and let her take advantage, I've had a reason for this time and that time but now it's the standard. And when I'm gone for months at a time she takes care of everything. 

I'm definitely gonna have to get some books, it seems I'm not as knowledgeable as I thought.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Bob E said:


> I've been reading these just been at work so it's hard to reply individually.
> 
> Thank you for both sides of it, it definitely makes sense that I relay what I want as just sex when really it is the contact, care, and intimacy in general. I definitely coddle her and let her take advantage, I've had a reason for this time and that time but now it's the standard. And when I'm gone for months at a time she takes care of everything.
> 
> I'm definitely gonna have to get some books, it seems I'm not as knowledgeable as I thought.


The being gone for months at a time thing is really tough. Think you said you're in the reserves? Do they have any supportive counseling available? It's got to be a common thing. 

The other thing to look at is this. If it were your wife posting, and she pointed out that you were gone months at a time, and that there was an OW who was paying too much attention to you, nearly 100% of TAM would tell her that you were cheating. And that might be what she's thinking right now. She might think the situation is already hopeless and beyond repair. 

There will never be a better time than now, right now, to tell her that it's time to set boundaries, boundaries that will be mutually agreed upon and respected. And while you're at it, go over privacy issues to. Are you comfortable with what she might not be telling you, and vice versa?


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Yup, its honest so that being said your already checked out and any minor occurrence from you wife. Your gone I wouldn't give it any more time you are showing signs of infidelity an EA. And that's now fair to her you should have manned up yrs ago now your window shopping knowing you have a fall back or plan B, your now worse than your wife in the sense of any truthfulness. And unless you go completely no contact with the other woman. There's no hope and you need to tell your wife what you did and leave it up to her if she wants to stay married to you.
> 
> All the so called suffering you have experience is of less significance that what you done to her your just deflecting it so you can live with yuiself.


I should've manned up a long time ago, I didn't pay enough attention to the big picture, what I wanted and allowed. Agreed that at this point any of her actions were unhelpful but mine were more disrespectful. 



Mr.Married said:


> If your wife knew of every text you ever sent that girl and every single thing you ever told her ........ how do you think she would feel ?
> 
> Your going to end up being “cheating bastard that caused our divorce “ if you keep going down that road.
> 
> ...


I'm sure she wouldn't be ok with the texts, I'm hoping to not be the cheating bastard. I don't want to do that to myself or my family. I like the list idea, I'm gonna do that.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Bob E said:


> I should've manned up a long time ago, I didn't pay enough attention to the big picture, what I wanted and allowed. Agreed that at this point any of her actions were unhelpful but mine were more disrespectful.
> .


When was the last time you contacted the OW? And have you been sexting with the her?


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> The being gone for months at a time thing is really tough. Think you said you're in the reserves? Do they have any supportive counseling available? It's got to be a common thing.
> 
> The other thing to look at is this. If it were your wife posting, and she pointed out that you were gone months at a time, and that there was an OW who was paying too much attention to you, nearly 100% of TAM would tell her that you were cheating. And that might be what she's thinking right now. She might think the situation is already hopeless and beyond repair.
> 
> There will never be a better time than now, right now, to tell her that it's time to set boundaries, boundaries that will be mutually agreed upon and respected. And while you're at it, go over privacy issues to. Are you comfortable with what she might not be telling you, and vice versa?


It is tough, there are people to talk to but generally speaking to them feeds the info back to my supervisor. Kinda iffy about doing that. 

Her point of view makes a lot of sense, maybe she does. I guess she's brought it up to me and I didn't take the bait either. 

The talk will happen. I think at this point I'd be happy knowing anything- good, bad, or indifferent. I'm not great at starting the conversation but that's something I need to be able to control more, once I get started it's easier to get everything out. I'm sure it won't be easy to say or hear but it needs to be.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Bob E said:


> It is tough, there are people to talk to but generally speaking to them feeds the info back to my supervisor. Kinda iffy about doing that.
> 
> Her point of view makes a lot of sense, maybe she does. I guess she's brought it up to me and I didn't take the bait either.
> 
> The talk will happen. I think at this point I'd be happy knowing anything- good, bad, or indifferent. I'm not great at starting the conversation but that's something I need to be able to control more, once I get started it's easier to get everything out. I'm sure it won't be easy to say or hear but it needs to be.


You have an amazing opportunity here, because you can essentially start over. You've already assumed the worst, and she may have too. 

But don't even get the ball rolling until you can get rid of the OW stuff and agree to cut contact as part of the boundary stuff. If you want to stay married, that's just the way it has to be. Complete cut off. Even to the point of finding a way to make sure you don't work together. You can look at that as something you don't want to give up (which shouldn't be the case) but in reality it's a strategic play that can save your marriage.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> I believe a man's need for intimacy increases greatly as he gets older and is nearly-always mistaken by women as a need for "sex." Based on a sample size of one (me). And intimacy is a more important issue, for a marriage, than "sex." So you have this really toxic potential where a woman might be seeing "sex" as less-important over time, while the man sees "intimacy" (communicated through intercourse) as being more-important, and how can anything good come from that?


Dont want to thread jack so I’ll be brief. Its because you guys call it SEX. Women often believe thats what its about. 
Womens bodies undergo massive hormonal changes after menopause that can KILL libido. And lack of estrogen and lack of use causes the vagina to shorten and close. So intercourse becomes painful. And round the circle goes. 
You may have to change expectations. Be less traditional in the bedroom, things may have to be different now. 
But you too are going to have the have the talk with your wife. And dont call it SEX. Or the convo will be over.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Actually, women can have sex into their 60s, 70s, and yes, even 80s.

Sex isn't a dirty word. If you can't say the word SEX to your wife or admit to wanting to have sex with her without her ending a conversation, you have some big problems.

Yes, men, including husbands, really do want to have sex. Uhh that's normal for a healthy male. It is called a sex drive. Women, including wives, even older women, want to have sex, too. They also have a sex drive.



aquarius1 said:


> Casual Observer said:
> 
> 
> > I believe a man's need for intimacy increases greatly as he gets older and is nearly-always mistaken by women as a need for "sex." Based on a sample size of one (me). And intimacy is a more important issue, for a marriage, than "sex." So you have this really toxic potential where a woman might be seeing "sex" as less-important over time, while the man sees "intimacy" (communicated through intercourse) as being more-important, and how can anything good come from that?
> ...


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

aquarius1 said:


> Dont want to thread jack so I’ll be brief. Its because you guys call it SEX. Women often believe thats what its about.
> Womens bodies undergo massive hormonal changes after menopause that can KILL libido. And lack of estrogen and lack of use causes the vagina to shorten and close. So intercourse becomes painful. And round the circle goes.
> You may have to change expectations. Be less traditional in the bedroom, things may have to be different now.
> But you too are going to have the have the talk with your wife. And dont call it SEX. Or the convo will be over.


Um, um, guy here with a post menopausal wife, we talk about SEX a lot. Yes, things are way different now than 25+ tears ago. Yes, she doesn’t have the “biological urge to make babies” any more. But we deal and talk, “you’re on your phone, can you order me more [long lasting vaginal] lube”. Yes, it sucks that it used to be effortless and now takes effort, but we make the effort. 

Sorry to thread jack a thread jack.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Livvie and CharlieParker.
Yes, you are right. I did not mean to imply that people dont have sex, and well into their later years. Not at all.
The problem can become when some people just think their partner wants sex and nothing else from them. A place to “get off”
Great when a regular, loving sex life is already established, but a more difficult conversation when trying to reawaken a long dormant one.
My opinion is that this is the case based on what the OP has stated.
Im merely trying to offer a different angle to tackle this problem from. A different perspective. 
Every coin has two sides.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Hey Bob,
> 
> I think as others have said you should let her know upfront and not just drop the bomb.
> 
> ...


I think that is incredibly disturbing.

The just do it mentality that people apply to women, the give her ultimatums mentality, and the divorce her she doesn't respect you mentality - it's all rubbish as far as I'm concerned because more than likely it has nothing to do respect or the lack of it, and nobody who does not know you, your wife, or anything about your marriage has any business telling you that her lack of desire means she doesn't respect you. For all they know, it could be because you don't respect her. You confessed to your own "fair share of mistakes," so my guess is those could have something to do with it. And considering nobody here has any idea of your marriage dynamics and no idea of what your fair share of mistakes have been or the affect they may have had on your wife, then nobody here has any business suggesting or implying that she should screw you just because you want her to. Moreover, unless and until you have any kind of understanding about your wife (because it doesn't seem to me that you do), then you will do her a great disservice by issuing ultimatums for sex. I don't even know how or why you think "pretty much forcing her hand" is a good idea or any kind of way to get your wife to want to have sex with you. You get what you pay for on public forums. The lack of professional courtesy can turn your world upside down and your kids' world too. You said something to the effect of having some kind of concern for them in your first post. I detected not a hint of that in your subsequent posts. All that seems to matter is that you're horny and other fish have taken notice. Oow wee I want to kiss her!

I know you have been very decent and restrained yourself, but please don't become capricious. Or selfish. There are lots of women who lose their libido and don't know why. But there are just as often very good reasons even if a woman can't quite put her finger on it. I don't want to try to enumerate every possible reason and end up writing my usual novels. I couldn't possibly guess everything that might apply anyway, so I'll just mention a couple I hope you will think about. But before I get into those, I do want to ask you to think about those "fair share of mistakes" you've made because you'll never know how you might have caused some pretty deep resentment in her. You just might have some 'splainin to do....and apologizing too even if you already did. And read the book "His Needs, Her Needs." You're not the only one that has them, and hers are very different from yours but equally important. Think also about the time and attention you spend with her. Read also "The Five Love Languages". You never know that while you may feel you summed up your marriage in your original post, she probably sees things very differently but finds it too difficult, if not seemingly impossible, to talk about. So people telling you to sit her down and talk, or make her talk, or issue ultimatums isn't the answer.

People post their one-sided point of view and might not realize the clues they inadvertently offer. You stated.....



Bob E said:


> Something that's frustrated me on this topic is I'll give her foot massages, manicures (as best as I can🤷‍♂️), ankle massages, etc every time by a simple request.
> 
> I've had back and neck issues for years, I ask for a massage and 10 time of 10 she's tired, her hands hurt, not feeling good.
> 
> I've gotten into a type of massage for my back and given advice to several people that has helped. My wife, my back hurts, I got excited and said let me show you this. First step, breathe with your stomach. She refused the words from my mouth, 'your lungs are in your chest though'. 'Yeah I know, trust me breathe with your stomach's. Couldn't, wouldn't trust the words from my mouth. Asked Google, hey! Looks like you can breathe with your stomach. That's happened a bunch of times with different things, I can convince a strange of something before I can convince her. I can't force help, she won't do anything to help herself...


.....which makes me wonder if she might feel like you're a know-it-all. Is it possible you've made her feel like you think your opinions and ways to do things are superior to hers? More important than hers? You have all the answers but she won't listen? It seems it could be that to me by what you stated. Lots of people are that way but don't realize it, yet it's the very thing their spouse finds sickening about them. I don't really think you can answer. It's more like something only she can answer, but I thought I'd bring it up because you're here, after all, complaining about lack of sex. It's the #1 complaint around these boards, but how many look at themselves?

You said you've been with her since you were 15, and that makes me think you probably made the same mistakes a lot of guys make. That you were so young and that she doesn't like your displays of affection now are what makes me think this is a possibility. For example, if you spent the early years of your marriage (no, I don't think you married at 15) wanting sex all the time, groping her, feeling her butt, hugging and kissing just so it could turn into sex, then it might be that she grew resentful of that. Some women like it but some don't because it makes them feel used and objectified. It can make a woman feel like you just want her for sex and the pleasure her body offers you as if it's not her body but yours to play with. Lots of women end up feeling this way, and it puts them off from wanting to be intimate in any manner because any type of intimacy will make you want it to lead to sex. It's a catch 22 kind of scenario, but they feel the way they feel. I remember feeling this way with my first husband. It grew to the point of not wanting him to touch me at all. "You look like Wonder Woman" is what he would say as he devoured me with his eyes, so I stopped giving him much to look at and stayed fully clothed as baggy as possible. 

*Here's an example* of what I'm trying to explain

Here's *another one*. Note in the comments section, one lady said her husband makes her "feel like a prostitute and piece of meat."

And *another one*. 

Believe me, it's an age-old problem between the sexes. If you spent your early years doing this, she might still be feeling how it affected her even if you don't do it anymore. If you became angry when she asked you to stop like some of the men mentioned in those articles or if you gaslighted her with "It's just affection," then it could mean you and she still have to work through those feelings that you created in her. This also applies to your fair share of other mistakes that you mentioned.

Being that you and she have been together since such a young age, I don't expect either of you were very experienced or had much opportunity to learn about a woman's body and sexual needs. Maybe you have, but it wouldn't be surprising if you haven't since many, many people never do. What might be surprising is how many women spend their lives completely bored with sexual intercourse because it isn't fulfilling for them like it is for men. What makes it worse is that women never say, especially women who don't know that it CAN be fulfilling. That's not to say intercourse doesn't feel good to them or that they don't enjoy it. It can still feel good but not as fulfilling for her as the guy thinks it is, and then she doesn't know why she feels unfulfilled. She only knows that something is missing and while she wants sex and does have sex, she ends up with that same absence each time until she finally gives up on sex because there's nothing in it for her but she doesn't know why. And no woman likes feeling like sex is just for him and the purpose of her birth was just for his pleasure.

There's a guy here on the forum whom I find very considerate of his wife's sexual needs. He once stated, that (I'm paraphrasing) "Oral was for her and PIV (intercourse) was for me but I realized it shouldn't be that way." And he was right. I had lots of boyfriends who performed by this same notion, and I just went along with it, bored though I was. But that kind of mentality is the reason lots of women are bored with intercourse. It can be a chore they do just for him, which wears very thin after a while.

Consider *this article*. She talks about always having been bored with PIV (penis in vagina/intercourse) sex until that day she surprisingly had a vaginal orgasm with a new boyfriend. As I said, lots of women are bored during intercourse and do it for the man's sake, but very few admit it out loud like she did. But if they're bored, they don't like being bored and would prefer not having to perform that task all the time just for his pleasure. They wish intercourse was more satisfying for them too. But most women never mention their boredom and never complain about their lack of satisfaction. They endure it....and fake it....until they don't want to anymore, at least not very often.

I'm not saying any of this to prompt you to brag of your masterly sexual prowess and all the orgasms you give your wife. I'm only offering this as food for thought to suggest you need to get your mind out of that no-good coworker's (for going after a married man) coochie and focus your effort on the woman you're married to because your dead bedroom might very well not be all about the sex you wish you were getting. What if you are the reason you're not getting any?

Read those two books and follow their suggestions. Also, read *this page* and all the articles down the right side and put those into practice too. I like to call the Marriage Builders site a kind of do-it-yourself marriage counseling. Attending marriage counseling is also a good idea, but that site is best for learning and understanding yourself, your wife, your marriage, and all the things you should be doing and why you should be doing them. Marriage requires work. I'm sure you've heard that many times in your life. The problem is usually that people say it all the time, but nobody seems to offer exactly what that work is supposed to be. This is the work you have to do. Then, and only then, can you legitimately say you've tried everything that you could. Up to now, you haven't tried anything because you had no idea what you should be doing. Now that you have access to all this knowledge and understanding, I hope you will apply yourself for real.

Of course, if you're just looking for something to justify jumping into that coworker (like Tilted 1 stated), then I just wrote a novel for nothing, so be my guest to just ignore everything I said. But if you're even slightly interested in saving your marriage, then read the books/articles and do the work like a married person should.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

From your first post:

"I've tried everything from tell me when you're ready to *signing her up to sell toys for a company she liked."*

What does signing her up to sell toys have to do with your sex life? And, why are you signing her up for anything? You're not her daddy.

Does your wife think you're controlling? She doesn't want to talk to you; she doesn't want to sit next to you; she doesn't want to have sex with you. It's looking like she doesn't feel emotionally safe with you. If she doesn't feel safe, she is not going to want to have sex with you.

Just something to think about.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> When was the last time you contacted the OW? And have you been sexting with the her?


We haven't messaged for a few days, she came into my office for a couple minutes about work stuff. 

No sexting, we've never had any conversation about "us". I looked through a bunch of our past messages yesterday and while I wouldn't say my wife would be ok with it, I don't think it would be a stretch to say it's like a joking conversation with another guy. I might be too close to it still though.


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

StarFires said:


> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Bob,
> ...


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## Bob E (Nov 4, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> From your first post:
> 
> "I've tried everything from tell me when you're ready to *signing her up to sell toys for a company she liked."*
> 
> ...


She had been to several sex toy parties with friends and had fun. She talked a few times about wanting to sign up and sell them. I know it was a bit presumptuous for me to sign her up but she loved doing it. It got her up and moving after some rough months, meeting people, and making her own money on her own schedule. There was no commitment so she could stop at any point.

Maybe she doesn't feel safe, would make sense why I can't much response.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Bob E said:


> We haven't messaged for a few days, she came into my office for a couple minutes about work stuff.
> 
> No sexting, we've never had any conversation about "us". I looked through a bunch of our past messages yesterday and while I wouldn't say my wife would be ok with it, I don't think it would be a stretch to say it's like a joking conversation with another guy. I might be too close to it still though.


Well, some women who are interested in you, will believe that your emotionally attaching to them. And you must text her with a full stop contact. And it will give you a honest chance to grow with your wife. If not then it's already as l said your checked out already. And you are justifying your desires. Then you become that type of guy, who thinks with his pecker, and not his heart. So it's time to man up, and do the hard choices.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Seems like folks are banging on you. 

While the affair or whatever is not cool... 

I believe that sitting your wife down, and having a loving honest talk about the lack of sex is not only valid but it is called for in this case. 

If after the talk she is not interested in changing, then file for divorce. 

You can beat around the bush all you want, but that is what it basically boils down to...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

[deleted]


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Bob E said:


> This was in reference to a previous post stressing the need to get my wife talking, not forcing sex on her.


I can't stress enough - 
1. No more trying to MAKE her talk to you. You keep trying to no avail, so what do you think continuing to force her to talk will accomplish? I don't know why people ignore that point and keep telling posters to "sit her down and talk to her" as if that somehow will change her feelings. It's just the "just do it" mentality, which is inconsiderate, demanding, and controlling. It can't possibly change anyone's feelings nor change the reasons she doesn't want to have sex. It means only your feelings matter and hers don't. Yes, I understood that by "force her hand" you were talking about getting her to talk, so that's what the effort to get her to talk was ultimately about.



Bob E said:


> I think her fix was to bury her feelings and *I couldn't seem to get her to talk anymore, she just submitted*. She's had bouts of depression but *resists going to a counselor or openly talking to me* without said incident.


In addition to what I quoted from you above, this statement from your first post was another reason I brought up the possibility that you make her feel like you think your feelings and opinions are superior to hers. It wouldn't make you a terrible person because it's very common for guys to think they need to explain TO their wife what it is she should be thinking, how wrong she is in the way she thinks and what she says, and that the feelings she expresses are unreasonable and unfounded. It's very, very common, but it's something wives hate and causes her to shut down and not want to try to communicate anymore. What's the point if she's made to feel like whatever she says will be refuted, twisted, or mocked like she shouldn't feel the way she feels? Your wife shut down for a reason. You've given us two clues (plus the one that Blondilocks noted) as to why that might be. Your effort then became one of forcing her to talk about her feelings to you. Do you see the vicious cycle? But like I said, it's very common for guys to do, so don't think I'm blaming or browbeating you because I know you didn't do it intentionally. It just came naturally because nobody knows how to communicate with their spouse and how not to communicate until they are actually taught the do and don't methods. But it created a cause and effect kind of environment, one that she's now less willing to venture out from because you've taught her how unsafe that will be. A good marriage counselor can teach you both better communication skills.

2. No threats or ultimatums. It is very bad advice to tell you to do that. You do, however, have the option of leaving. I don't feel it is right for one partner in the marriage to control the bedroom. You shouldn't be sentenced to a sexless marriage of her decree. But before you decide to leave just because you know you have other coochie waiting in the wings, you do have an obligation to work on making your marriage better and giving your wife a real chance. That starts with examining your own contribution to the state of your marriage and changing yourself first before thinking she's the problem and the only one who needs to change. This is the time to place emphasis on getting smart about your marriage. You have to put in the work instead of thinking that because you're not getting sex it's okay to quit so you can get sex.

3. No more asking her to go to counseling. You guys surely do need marriage counseling (hopefully with a good counselor because there are many awful ones out there), so make an appointment and start going. Let her know you made an appointment and will be attending marriage counseling. Invite her to join you and let her know you hope she will. If she doesn't, you still have to go. Most people don't like the idea of going to MC so it takes one to start, and often times the other will soon start going. Even if she initially says she's not interested, she just might go with you the first time because she will resent you preparing to go without her. It might pique her interest. Nevertheless, you go the first time and keep going until she decides to join you. Believe me, she will be curious.



Bob E said:


> As far as in bed, I've never been with another woman so no other experience. I have asked her what she likes, what she wants to do, I've tried new and different things. I understand that we have very different comfort zones and talk to her about staying in, venturing out....She says and shows that she enjoys PIV. As far as I can get we're both pretty happy with our sex life in the moment.


Each of these sentences has the potential of being problematic. I know this is going to be difficult to understand, but women are oftentimes reluctant to talk about sex or their needs. And, an inexperienced woman has little if anything to talk about because women don't know what they want or what they like until they experience those things. You and she have sex. It feels good to her, so she's able to respond to that during the act and able to express that she likes it. But if that is all she knows, she has no idea how to tell you what she wants or what else she would like because she's never experienced anything other than what she has. As I explained above, inexperienced women still can and do enjoy sexual relations, but sometimes they feel like there's something missing, like there should be something more. This in no way suggests you are inadequate in bed. You being inexperienced doesn't equate to inadequacy. It just could possibly mean that you don't know what to do or how to do things because you've had no one to teach you. It's really great that you want to please your wife and that you try to please her but if you don't know what to do or how to do it, then she's not pleased as she could be, which, again, could make her feel like there's something missing. As I explained above, if gratification from the act is all yours and not hers, that could also be a contributing factor in her wanting to have sex less and less. Read my response here and start applying those techniques the next time you and she have sex. Just to note that for the A-spot technique, you might want to try placing a pillow under her buttocks. Tweak and adjust as needed according to her responses and preferences. If you haven't done all these things the way I suggest doing them, it just might make her more desirous and help to bring your bedroom back to life.


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