# Looking back on it - 1 year later



## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

I have a little bit of a different kind of question regarding infidelity.

My ex-wife and I have been separated since August of last year and were officially divorced in June. I do not regret this decision one bit and am much happier and more at peace with myself than I have ever been.

The one lingering question that I'll probably always have is whether or not she actually had a PA. I am certain she had an EA, but I don't know if it went further than that.

She had been texting her ex-husband on a regular basis, but when I looked at the phone records, I noticed that her texts to him would spike after we had an argument.

The last straw for me was when she wrote an e-mail to her former mother-in-law saying how she did not think her marriage to me would work out and the main reason was because she still loved her ex-husband.

There were mixed signals though. Our sex life never really dropped off and her demeanor didn't change much. She had BPD, so it was always peaceful, chaotic, then peaceful again. She also lied often and convincingly.

There were a few arguments where she would leave and tell me that she was going to see her ex, then she'd come back an hour or two later and say she only said that to make me angry and that she really went food shopping.

Also, she CONSTANTLY accused me of cheating on her with my daughter's mom. I never did and never gave her any indication that I did.

Also, I learned after we were married that my now ex had a BF during her entire first marriage and that she cut that relationship off not long before we started dating.

In short, it got to the point where I couldn't believe a word that came out of her mouth. I left and I'm glad I did.

Back to the question though, are there any tell-tale signs that it was a PA? I'm thinking I'll never know for sure.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

I think you need to evaluate why this stuff still eats you up inside. Doesn't look like you've got her out of your system!


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

costa200 said:


> I think you need to evaluate why this stuff still eats you up inside. Doesn't look like you've got her out of your system!


Believe me, she's out of my system.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

matt82 said:


> Believe me, she's out of my system.


It sure doesn't sound like it really. Are you still in contact with your ex?

Has she gone back to her ex? If she had a boyfriend with her first husband you know she had/has no problems with cheating so it was probably just a matter of time anyway. Does her ex know she cheated on him?


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

Only as far as logistics with pickup and drop off of our son. Things have been civil since the divorce. She wanted an R back late last year. I told her that I couldn't do that.

I couldn't say if she's sleeping with him or not, as he is remarried. According to her, he still comes around and wants her back. I don't know if that is true. He actually knew about her cheating, which is why it would surprise me if he wants her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

Let's say I am still hung up on her though and that my new, peaceful, fulfilling life just isn't enough.

Let's say that spending quality time with my kids, reconnecting with old friends, going to the gym, and taking up new hobbies really sucks and that I miss my chaotic marriage and lying, cheating wife.

Say all that is the case... any chance I'll ever know if it was a PA rather than just an EA?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Would an answer make a big difference in your life?


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

Nope, none. It would only be more confirmation of what I already know about her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Matt, from what you describe, I think it's a good bet that it went PA. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. 

I don't know -- and don't care to know -- how many other men there were in my ex wife's life. I've moved on and could not care less. You should do the same.


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Matt, from what you describe, I think it's a good bet that it went PA. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter.
> 
> I don't know -- and don't care to know -- how many other men there were in my ex wife's life. I've moved on and could not care less. You should do the same.


Point taken. Honestly, I didn't start this thread because I had a pressing need to know what she did. I really just wanted to see what you guys would have to say since I liked most the advice on other threads.

Some people are happier married and some better off single. I think I'm the latter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

matt82 said:


> Nope, none. It would only be more confirmation of what I already know about her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Alright, if it helps you somewhat lets see the situation...



> Also, she CONSTANTLY accused me of cheating on her with my daughter's mom. I never did and never gave her any indication that I did.


This is pretty standard behavior of a cheater, projecting her own faults on you.



> Also, I learned after we were married that my now ex had a BF during her entire first marriage and that she cut that relationship off not long before we started dating.


She had cheated before and physically. She was having all this supposed EA with an ex-husband, so very weak sexual barriers in the situation (she already had sex with him tons of times). 



> The last straw for me was when she wrote an e-mail to her former mother-in-law saying how she did not think her marriage to me would work out and the main reason was because she still loved her ex-husband.


Seems she was already laying the road to get back with that other dude. 

So, all in all there is a high chance that she was indeed in PA. And if that is worse than an EA for you then you should go with that thought.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I'm a strong proponent at "think the worse" thing. I mean, think a gangbang with 12 midgets every friday. Deal with it. Digest it and then defecate it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Acabado said:


> I'm a strong proponent at "think the worse" thing. I mean, think a *gangbang with 12 midgets *every friday. Deal with it. Digest it and then defecate it.


In a jumpy gym......


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Eventually you will know, Matt80.
Trust me on this.
You will know, when you are not ready.
It will reveal itself to you. When you are free from her thoughts.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

IMO if she didn't have a PA, she absolutely wanted one. When she was with her ex she had a bf right through. That's not love. It seems she just always wants what she can't have. And is never happy with what she has. Did u ever find out what her texts/messages/chats with exH were about? His responses? Did they have any reason to communicate, like children for eg? He is remarried...would he risk his marriage for a woman who treated him that way?
I will assume they split due to her cheating? And if so, he dumped her? She was rejected? He has married again. And so now he is someone she cannot have. I imagine she only wants him back in order to prove her 'loveability' and worth to herself, and because he is now unattainable. If he left his wife and went back to her I would bet all I have that she would not want him any longer. Watch out, if u get a new woman then her reactions to u may mirror those with him. She will suddenly realise u are gone from her grasp, and she will try and get you back. Try and sabotage your relationship. All comes from rejection and desire for what she can have no longer. Very sad. These people are 10 a penny. People like this are not content, very unhappy, and wreak havoc and misery wherever they go.

I would think that it probably didn't go further than EA from what u say, but then I don't know how receptive he was to her. If he was receptive, then more than likely it could have gone PA. And by the fact there were no obvious signs, the PA was a one off (or 2...) mistake on his part. 

U invested a lot in this woman, married her, and so of course the desire to know is there. And in the scheme of things, it doesn't matter. I am happy to hear u r over her and happier.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

So you shot down her offer of R before divorce? Well, now you're another one that slipped away. It's very likely in a few years you'll be that ex she can't get over.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

matt82 said:


> I have a little bit of a different kind of question regarding infidelity.
> 
> My ex-wife and I have been separated since August of last year and were officially divorced in June. I do not regret this decision one bit and am much happier and more at peace with myself than I have ever been.
> 
> ...


Although I was the worst in the world at picking up on the signs from my WW, all the signs of a PA are there. If I was a betting man, I'd put a large stake on there having been a PA.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

If she won't tell you, there's no way that you will ever know for sure. She cheated on you (whether EA or PA), you divorced her - why does it matter so much? Don't let these thoughts cloud your present peace of mind. Time to move on.


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

Remains said:


> IMO if she didn't have a PA, she absolutely wanted one. When she was with her ex she had a bf right through. That's not love. It seems she just always wants what she can't have. And is never happy with what she has.


I could see this. She liked to complain about how unhappy she was in our marriage and how worthless I was. She also alternated between hating and idealizing her ex-husband. Usually when we were on the outs, he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then when we were getting along, he was this horrible abusive, drunken monster.




Remains said:


> Did u ever find out what her texts/messages/chats with exH were about? His responses? Did they have any reason to communicate, like children for eg? He is remarried...would he risk his marriage for a woman who treated him that way?


I don't have copies of those. The guy's new wife is the one who blew the lid off everything. She mentioned that she had seen a few "I love you." texts from my ex to her ex. She didn't know if it was reciprocated. They did have a reason to communicate in my step-son. I don't think this guy would risk his marriage, but I also think he probably would sleep with her if he knew he could get away with it.



Remains said:


> I will assume they split due to her cheating? And if so, he dumped her? She was rejected? He has married again. And so now he is someone she cannot have. I imagine she only wants him back in order to prove her 'loveability' and worth to herself, and because he is now unattainable. If he left his wife and went back to her I would bet all I have that she would not want him any longer.


The cheating had to do with it (they were both cheating on each other), but the physical abuse is what actually ended it. She threw a full sippy cup at him and hearly broke his nose. Apparently, she clawed him up pretty bad a few times too. Lot's and lots of nonsense. No one in his family (or mine) were sorry to see her go.

I was unaware of "trickle truth" before we got married. I didn't get even close to the full story until after we were married. Could have saved myself a lot of misery.



Remains said:


> Watch out, if u get a new woman then her reactions to u may mirror those with him. She will suddenly realise u are gone from her grasp, and she will try and get you back. Try and sabotage your relationship. All comes from rejection and desire for what she can have no longer. Very sad. These people are 10 a penny. People like this are not content, very unhappy, and wreak havoc and misery wherever they go.


You have pretty good insight here. She swore to me that she would go to great lengths to try to destroy any future relationship that I have. She told her other ex-husband that she would do the same to him as well. I really don't care what she says, since she typically doesn't follow through on her threats. When she does follow through, she usually does a half-ass job of it. Havoc and misery were always par for the course with that one. She is textbook BPD.



Remains said:


> I would think that it probably didn't go further than EA from what u say, but then I don't know how receptive he was to her. If he was receptive, then more than likely it could have gone PA. And by the fact there were no obvious signs, the PA was a one off (or 2...) mistake on his part.


I hear you. I have talked to him about it a few times (we are actually on good terms now due to our shared experience of having been married to her). I told him I don't care if they did sleep together. He claims they didn't, but I don't know how up front he was being as I asked him right before our separation.



Remains said:


> U invested a lot in this woman, married her, and so of course the desire to know is there. And in the scheme of things, it doesn't matter. I am happy to hear u r over her and happier.


Thanks! My family is very anti-divorce, and they would tell me how miserable I'd be if I ever walked and how my life would be ruined. They are fundamentalist Christians and raised me that way, so a lot of the reason I stuck around as long as I did is because of my upbringing... still trying to rid myself of that brain washing.

I keep waiting to realize that I made a mistake by leaving and that I should have stuck it out, but that feeling hasn't come. Instead, I have peace. Guess that means I did the right thing.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> I keep waiting to realize that I made a mistake by leaving and that I should have stuck it out, but that feeling hasn't come. Instead, I have peace. Guess that means I did the right thing.


I see very little guys regretting divorce. I see a lot trying to "save" a marriage and going through hell for it. In fact, there are news out there of guys who have lived all their lives trying to forgive within a marriage and never could. Basically wasting their lives in the process. 

This life is short and you only get this one chance. Why waste it for someone who doesn't deserve it? 

Enjoy your life Matt. There are a lot of good things out there, just waiting for you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

There is no way we could tell yo uif it went PA but based on what you have said, her relationship with him was inappropriate. It's clear she she had feelings for him.

If it helps, assume the worst and move on. 

That's what I did. It helped with all the nagging "what if" questions I had in my head.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sorry to read that your XW is BPD and a serial cheater and that she's violent/abusive. In other words:

She's *batsh!t crazy*.

The thing is, you will never know if it went PA. The overwhelming odds are that it did, simply because of her nature and they have previously shared physical intimacy, being previously married to each other and all. They can reminice about the sex they used to have. Naturally, the Ex Husband isn't going to admit a PA, he has no reason at all to tell you the truth.

There's just simply so many ways it could have gone PA, cheaters have no qualms about doing it anywhere. They can do it in elevators, in the car/vehicle, etc, just about anywhere where they can get even semi privacy, it doesn't have to be in a hotel or someone's bed. Thats why I shake my head when I read when the newly betrayed come here and insist that there's no way that their WS' affair have gone PA. 

Sorry for any new mind movies you get because of it, but think back, did you ever remember her coming home and immediately going to the bathroom to shower? Did she feel unusually looser or wetter when you made love to her? Did she hide or immediately throw her panties into the wash? Did she have any new lingerie? Did she shave her kitty in a different way, where before she never did? Did she taste salty when you kissed her? I only ask this because on a cheater site, a WW said she gets a thrill out of kissing her husband after having given her lover a blow job.  The list for PA signs go on and on. Just google physical signs of an affair.

With all that said, do you really want to know? Just assume it did and move on with your life.


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Sorry for any new mind movies you get because of it, but think back, did you ever remember her coming home and immediately going to the bathroom to shower? Did she feel unusually looser or wetter when you made love to her? Did she hide or immediately throw her panties into the wash? Did she have any new lingerie? Did she shave her kitty in a different way, where before she never did? Did she taste salty when you kissed her? I only ask this because on a cheater site, a WW said she gets a thrill out of kissing her husband after having given her lover a blow job.  The list for PA signs go on and on.


Here's one: For the last year we were married, she would let me go down on her for oral sex. Ha! I wonder why?


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

matt82 said:


> Here's one: For the last year we were married, she would let me go down on her for oral sex. Ha! I wonder why?


ahhh, fluid transfer, what a wonderful gal !!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your chick has BPD so what guy would put up with a nut job with out getting some?
It was a PA, that was the price she had to pay for the void she needed filled.

Sure you could be the kind of guy that was stuck in the friend zone but why put up with a married, nut job of a women and just have an emotional connection? So I believe the motivation was there for the AP's b/c they got sex. The motivation was there for your ex wife b/c the AP's filled the void that she didn't want to lose.

Thats my $0.02


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

the guy said:


> Your chick has BPD so what guy would put up with a nut job with out getting some?


Not many. The sex never really dropped off with us. She just wouldn't let me go down on her.

I'm pretty sure the only reason guys get roped into marrying BPDs is because the sex is really good or they are able to hide their symptoms until it is too late.


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