# A real problem is the loss of trust, isn't it?



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A measure of trust can be re-built, however. But all of it? Maybe not.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

Yes that is the biggest problem.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I would imagine so. As far as I know, I have not been cheated on, but I think if there is no trust then there isn't really a marriage.

Now I'm not saying that trust can't be regained, but it would take me a long time to get there and probably a lot longer than I would be willing to wait,


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This is how it works.

If a non-cheated on spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops, they think: "I hope he/she is OK."

But if a cheated on but reconciled spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops they think: "I hope they're not cheating on me again."


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This is how it works.
> 
> If a non-cheated on spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops, they think: "I hope he/she is OK."
> 
> But if a cheated on but reconciled spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops they think: "I hope they're not cheating on me again."


Yes... what a terrible feeling.


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## Line In The Sand (Nov 15, 2013)

Yes it is, my wife has never really been committed to really try & reconcile but on the few dates we have had since I found out, whenever she has received a text I have always had in the back of my head who it's from etc.

& she even said herself can our marriage be saved due to the trust issue


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Having said that, we have been together now for 25 years, 15/16 years post the cheating...


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Wish I had divorced my wife 6 years ago with the first PA. Spent 6 years on edge wondering what she was up to when not with me.

Eventually it happened, I get the ILYBDLY speech and she's gone. Lesson learned, broken trust can never be rebuilt entirely, IMO. 

It's no way to live, I'm now solidly on the divorce the cheater side. Reconciling isn't worth the risk to me, with all due respect to those that have.


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## HeartInPieces (Sep 13, 2013)

This is why I have always felt cheating was a deal breaker for me. For me to love someone 100% I need to trust that person 100%. Once trust is broken by infidelity you will never be able to build that amount of trust again with that person so in my eyes I will never be able to love that person the same.


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## Differentguy (Oct 3, 2013)

I don't see how I can ever trust her again.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ya trust is a real challange in my marriage.

Sometimes the greatest challanges come the greatest rewards.

I guess thats why my FWW stuck around even after all my abuse.

I *want* to trust her that she won't screw around just like she *wants* to trust me that I won't drop her to the floor again.


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## birmingham (Dec 4, 2013)

I always think of myself as too trusting -- I am so trustworthy! I guess it's the downside of being optimistic. I'm also forgetful -- but how can one forget something like a betrayal this large? It will take a long time to trust my husband again. But maybe trust is overrated anyway?


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## mcfadyenpb (Dec 4, 2013)

Wish I had divorced my wife 6 years ago with the first PA.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> This is how it works.
> 
> If a non-cheated on spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops, they think: "I hope he/she is OK."
> 
> But if a cheated on but reconciled spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops they think: "I hope they're not cheating on me again."


....exactly!! And what galls me the most ..is if my wife is out late ...or later than she originally thought she'd be ....or if I don't know where she's been ...and I inquire about her whereabouts ....I'm painted as the "sick one" by her for asking.

....I'm convinced she'll never understand how much and how far reaching the loss / lack of trust can go, and the impacts of same can seep into all areas of the BS's mind.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

birmingham said:


> I always think of myself as too trusting -- I am so trustworthy! I guess it's the downside of being optimistic. I'm also forgetful -- but how can one forget something like a betrayal this large? It will take a long time to trust my husband again. But maybe trust is overrated anyway?


....I too was a very trusting person ...until my wife cheated. Now that is completely gone ...and I'm at the opposite end of the playing field ...where I trust no one. And that's sad ...because I even lost trust for persons I've known even longer than my wife ...and I know deep down that there is no sane reason why I should feel that way.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....exactly!! And what galls me the most ..is if my wife is out late ...or later than she originally thought she'd be ....or if I don't know where she's been ...and I inquire about her whereabouts ....I'm painted as the "sick one" by her for asking.
> 
> ....I'm convinced she'll never understand how much and how far reaching the loss / lack of trust can go, and the impacts of same can seep into all areas of the BS's mind.


@HS, if my FWW was pulling that crap I won't have lasted a year. Sorry bro but your old lady is buiding trust...she is tearing you down.

It sucks for Mrs. the-guy put if she wants to be on lock down then thats her choice. I now have my boundries and she can respect the way I protect my marriage or she can go pound sand.

You sir diserve a hell of alot more and to be labled as "sicK" for making her accoutable after her betrayal is messed up.

Hey MM, I hope this isn't thread jacking...I figured your thread was pretty open to other observation from other replies.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

I hate to be simplistic but for me 

love brings you together
trust keeps you together


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> A measure of trust can be re-built, however. But all of it? Maybe not.


It is an interesting one this

I thought trust had been rebuilt but then I realized the tiniest things would suddenly make me know, deep down, it was never returning not completely.

Trust is 'the breaker' 

Once that has been damaged the relationship is on a downward incline from that point onwards.

You may still get up to various highs and great moments but the general path is downward imo 

Knowing what I know now I am in wonderment that people can successfully reconcile, I really am 

Because of trust issues I tip my hat to any that have genuinely successfully reconciled 

Well done the Reconcilers :smthumbup:


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This is how it works.
> 
> If a non-cheated on spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops, they think: "I hope he/she is OK."
> 
> But if a cheated on but reconciled spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops they think: "I hope they're not cheating on me again."


After being on TAM this long, this is how I feel sometimes..


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## CaptainLOTO (Nov 6, 2013)

I've gone through cycles where I thought rebuilding trust was important and where I've thought that I can find a way to live without trusting her.

So far, there doesn't seem to be an answer that doesn't have a downside and the downsides seem to be like a thread in a sweater that just keeps unraveling and getting worse and worse.

I think if a TRUE, FULL reconciliation is made and full disclosure and long-term openness is offered by the wayward partner it can rebuild trust to a reasonable level. But if the "openness" is only partial or offered up with lots of resentment or turning the table on the BS for requiring the openness then that reflects that the Wayward isn't really capable of being accountable for their actions and I think in those cases, the marriage is probably doomed (either more unhappiness or divorce.)


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## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> This is how it works.
> 
> If a non-cheated on spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops, they think: "I hope he/she is OK."
> 
> But if a cheated on but reconciled spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops they think: "I hope they're not cheating on me again."


Oh so true, for me anyway :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

Trust is hard but I have found that there is many levels to it. While the betrayal is one form of trust I can not seem to get around, I can still trust WH to take care of responsibilities in other areas of our life. Our home responsibilities are not going to fall apart. The grass still needs to be mowed, dogs got to eat etc.... However I also think that along with trust is the respect is also in question. I no longer have the same level of respect I once did. Wh wants to open another back account at another back where we have a credit card. First thing to come to mind is who and which one is he flirting with now?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Yep. Habitual lying and trickle truthing and playing with my emotions causes complete loss of trust. I don't believe anything. No benefit of doubt. Guilty until proven innocent. 

That loss of trust will carry into future relationships. That is the real problem.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Trust broken is difficult to regain. Or impossible in my case. I spent thirty years between "episodes" attempting to regain it. Now I'm out of that and I feel free. But trusting someone is another story.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> A measure of trust can be re-built, however. But all of it? Maybe not.


_And all the king's horses and all the king's men
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again._

Once trust is broken, you can try to put it back together, but it's like a broken vase that gets glued back--the cracks are always still visibly there.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

You people are seriously figuring this out just now? Cheating can be forgiven if the person comes to you afterwards and confesses- not because they are about to get caught. Not because someone found out and threatened to tell. Only if the person says "Wow I am a piece of ****, I need to tell him and put it in his hands." 

The person who cheats and lies can't be trusted. Ever. Why are you sitting around acting like this is some mystery that has finally been revealed? It's ****ing math. It's so abundantly, embarrassingly clear.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> _And all the king's horses and all the king's men
> couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again._
> 
> Once trust is broken, you can try to put it back together, but it's like a broken vase that gets glued back--the cracks are always still visibly there.


Perfect metaphor.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

In one of his books David Rico lists as one of the 5 things in life we cannot change, "people are not always loving and loyal." This is true in varying degrees in all of us. The trick is finding someone with whom you can feel safe. That's what I believe healthy trust actually is. Complete blind trust is naive and not healthy.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

river rat said:


> Complete blind trust is naive and not healthy.


I so o o o o agree. I blindly trusted my ex. Never again. And it's not because I don't want to. It's because the veil has been lifted from my eyes. You can't un-see or un-know something once you have experienced it.


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## bartendersfriend (Oct 14, 2013)

I used to think it was a virtue that I trusted people completely (especially those that were supposed to be "closest" to me) and thought people that were suspicious of their partner were flawed. I was blind and then blindsided. I will never trust like that again and see how flawed that thinking was. You're right to say it is naive.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

yes I believe you should not trust anyone or anything 100%.
Yes blind trust is very unhealthy and naive I know this now.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Trust is a big issue as the deception and betrayal were massive and sustained. In the face of very direct questions over a period of months and, looking back now, pathetic pleas for just a modicum of truth and respect for what I was going through. Which was dumbstruck disbelief and then despair at my inability to recognize my wife. Trust and openness I think we can get back. And to an extent I think we have. What I cannot get back is the way I saw the world, marriage, and my wife before. Maybe that's not all bad. We live, we learn, we grow.

I think about these things a lot. This morning driving my girls to school. Not all the time, but frequently. Several times a day, but not all day or even much or most of any day. I know that this could happen again and I am not sure where to put the odds. Different times I place them on different points on the scale, but that doesn't bother me so much. Much of what knocked me for a loop was that something happened that I never imagined possible. That was huge. Everything seemed to become completely unreal. I couldn't find which way was up. rLooking back, I was pretty naive. Maybe a little less so now. There is something that is real that I never imagined could be. Almost 2 years gone by, I think I am pretty well able to acknowledge that and live with it. Wasn't an easy transition, but here I am and maybe I have grown some in the process. So I don't think I'll get knocked off my horse again, maybe just alter my course, ride in a different direction. But who knows? Anyway, I look at it differently now. Trust matters and in my reeling disbelief I was focused on that for a long time, but now it doesn't seem to be the central issue. People will do what they will do.

Do I want my marriage and family? Yes. Absolutely. But I have spent a lot of time looking at the very real possibility that those might not continue. Were it solely up to me, they would. Till death do us part and all that stuff.

There are a number of members here who have been through the upset of marital infidelity once or more, some of whom seem to place more on later betrayal. I haven't been there yet, but right now I feel differently. If it happens again, there won't be the shock. How many times can you learn that there is no Santa Claus?

And yet, did you notice something, Charlie Brown?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

The key question is whether, in each individual case, trust is an all-or-nothing proposition. For me it doesn't have to be: I do not have unconditional blind trust in my W after her extracurricular activities, but I do consider her an acceptable risk given her behavior after Dday. I believe that anyone can cheat under the wrong circumstances, so from this standpoint the best I can hope for in a partner is acceptable risk.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Once trust is broken it can never be restored... I also don't think you should immediately just blindly trust someone right away as well. However, I do think if you are in a long term relationship with the person, they should be able to eventually earn your trust. Being unable to trust anyone forever is just as unhealthy as blindly trusting everyone. 

Bottomline, trust can be EARNED in my opinion but once broken it can never be restored to that person in a meaningful way.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

absolutely...depending on the amount of deceit involved, it can be impossible to regain it

I guess for me, if I had to come up with a cheating scenario where I could regain trust, it would be my wife coming to me saying she had a one nighter, last night, she was drunk and did something stupid...if it was 2 years ago, no dice...but she confessed, she didnt lie or cover it up, she didnt carry on for days/weeks/months/years...it happened once and she told me immediately...she still had the affair and she stilll has to do some heavy lifting (no more going to bars or drinking with friends in this example)

but when they carry on for months, they lie, deceive, cover up, sneak around like snakes, put on an act around you...ugh...I personally can not forgive or regain trust...for those who can and R and it works, I am sincerely happy for them...it takes a special person to work at that!


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Loss of trust is a phenomenon. If you are on CWI, you know that no promise is absolute.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> Trust is a big issue as the deception and betrayal were massive and sustained. In the face of very direct questions over a period of months and, looking back now, pathetic pleas for just a modicum of truth and respect for what I was going through. Which was dumbstruck disbelief and then despair at my inability to recognize my wife. Trust and openness I think we can get back. And to an extent I think we have. What I cannot get back is the way I saw the world, marriage, and my wife before. Maybe that's not all bad. We live, we learn, we grow.
> 
> I think about these things a lot. This morning driving my girls to school. Not all the time, but frequently. Several times a day, but not all day or even much or most of any day. I know that this could happen again and I am not sure where to put the odds. Different times I place them on different points on the scale, but that doesn't bother me so much. Much of what knocked me for a loop was that something happened that I never imagined possible. That was huge. Everything seemed to become completely unreal. I couldn't find which way was up. rLooking back, I was pretty naive. Maybe a little less so now. There is something that is real that I never imagined could be. Almost 2 years gone by, I think I am pretty well able to acknowledge that and live with it. Wasn't an easy transition, but here I am and maybe I have grown some in the process. So I don't think I'll get knocked off my horse again, maybe just alter my course, ride in a different direction. But who knows? Anyway, I look at it differently now. Trust matters and in my reeling disbelief I was focused on that for a long time, but now it doesn't seem to be the central issue. People will do what they will do.
> 
> ...


Quite likely, I did not see or understand her. Not that that is entirely or even very much my fault. Still.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

The simplest things, a door close when hubs is in the den himself watching tv, makes me so nervous. I often now think, the phone and txting in the now open could really be someone else again, but this time being played right under my nose as in transparency. 

There is no trust in that department of our lives, and when friends suggest to watch money and investments now, I think god, my whole life seems on hyper-alert... Good grief, all of this for 30 years of "good behavior" on my part.

~sammy


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Harken Banks said:


> How many times can you learn that there is no Santa Claus?


Sadly, I grew up believing, "Yes, Virginia, there really is a Santa Claus..."


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

birmingham said:


> I always think of myself as too trusting -- I am so trustworthy! I guess it's the downside of being optimistic. I'm also forgetful -- but how can one forget something like a betrayal this large? It will take a long time to trust my husband again. But maybe trust is overrated anyway?


Birmingham? What a cool user name!:smthumbup: (Where I was born)


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Birmingham? What a cool user name!:smthumbup: (Where I was born)


Nooo a brummie ( don't speak pleese)


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This is how it works.
> 
> If a non-cheated on spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops, they think: "I hope he/she is OK."
> 
> But if a cheated on but reconciled spouse's partner is late back from work or the shops they think: "I hope they're not cheating on me again."


If a non-cheated spouse's partner continues to be late, that changes to "I hope she's not cheating on me, I have a bad feeling..."


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

I agree with that. In my part of not trusting, I work in an environment where I don't trust anything I hear and half of what I see. It is a cynical view at best. Not the way to live, but it keeps myself and the people I work with alive. Trust must be earned, to the max. I think when you give that to the person who has vowed, I say again, vowed, to love you through the thick an thin, it's an absolute shot through the heart when they betray you. Regardless if you reconcile or not in my thinking you will never trust that person again, ever. Once, shame on you, you guys know the rest. I guess when you give it unconditionally to that person, because you want to and it feels right, because it does and they muck it up you don't want to be hurt like that again, at least I don't, it's too painful. IMHO of course.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Headspin said:


> Nooo a brummie ( don't speak pleese)


Apparently I sound like Jasper Carrott! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

It takes a long time to regain trust and usually never back to where it was.

I still have a hard time.



One thing I have done is to hide money from her.

I wonder how many others here have done this?


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## Make it Stop (Nov 11, 2013)

Aside from the obviously shattered trust with my WH, one of the hardest things I'm also struggling with is *trusting myself.* I don't mean trusting myself not to go have revenge sex or something (though I strongly considered it in the weeks after Dday), but trusting myself - my judgment - to know what is real.

I was duped for so long and even when I had my suspicions, I rationalized them away because I truly, whole-heartedly, believed, TRUSTED, my husband would never do anything like this. I was stone cold wrong. Everything I thought was real was absolutely wrong. Turns out, I didn't really even know the man I was married to.

So now, 5 mos into R, him being a "model husband," saying and doing all the right things, how do I know this is real? I thought he was real before and I was wrong. Can I even trust myself to know what is real now? He was living a lie with his PA for almost a year, an EA (same person) prior to that, and porn prior to that. How do I know he's not living a lie now and has just gotten better at lying? 

I *think* he's really trying, I *think* he means what he says, I *think* he's changed/changing...but what do I know? I was so wrong before, how do I know I'm not wrong now? I can't trust myself, my own judgment, enough to be sure that I'm even reading our R right. So here is yet another thing that has been stolen from me...trust, confidence, in myself. Great.

Anyone else feel this way? If so, how did you deal/are you dealing with it?


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

Make it Stop said:


> Aside from the obviously shattered trust with my WH, one of the hardest things I'm also struggling with is *trusting myself.* I don't mean trusting myself not to go have revenge sex or something (though I strongly considered it in the weeks after Dday), but trusting myself - my judgment - to know what is real.
> 
> I was duped for so long and even when I had my suspicions, I rationalized them away because I truly, whole-heartedly, believed, TRUSTED, my husband would never do anything like this. I was stone cold wrong. Everything I thought was real was absolutely wrong. Turns out, I didn't really even know the man I was married to.
> 
> ...


We are 100% on the same wavelength. I am in month 2 from D-Day and my wife's PA. My fear in my ability to know or see things or more importantly not know or see things in a person I have been in a relationship with for 12 years, and married for almost 10 is terrifying. It makes me question my abilities to see things, read people, read situations and such. I have always felt that I was able to tell when my spouse was lying, but clearly I have NO CLUE. She has a level of skill at deceit and an ability to lie that is terrifying. I felt "off" eventually, but not for the months that it was happening. It makes me question so much, and I hate that. I think trust can be earned and or re-built, but I doubt it will be where it was.

As another member said, it is like I know Santa isn't real, that is a bell that cannot be un-rung. Sure it can get better, it can hurt less, I can learn to accept others are "Santa" in my life but nothing can replace the belief that Santa was real -ever. The challenge for me (and you as it seems) is to decide, can I live in this relationship, knowing Santa isn't real? Every day so far I have gotten up and said "I will try today" I have no idea what my answer to that question will be next week, month, or year, but today I got up and said "try".


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

convert said:


> It takes a long time to regain trust and usually never back to where it was.
> 
> I still have a hard time.
> 
> ...


This is what I worry, as he controls most of the money. I say to friends, "he'd not do that to me after all we've been through and still going through." Of course they all raise their eyebrows now... 


~sammy


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

MattMatt said:


> A measure of trust can be re-built, however. But all of it? Maybe not.


Six and a half years post D-Day. I've noted many times here that the trust had been rebuilt but would also always have an asterisk next to it. As we've moved forward that asterisk has continued to shrink, but still exists. After all, the one thing I never dreamed would happen in my relationship with my wife happened. She fell in love with another man. But I will have to say, at some point I believe that asterisk will go away completely. It'll just take some more time.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Make it Stop said:


> Aside from the obviously shattered trust with my WH, one of the hardest things I'm also struggling with is *trusting myself.* I don't mean trusting myself not to go have revenge sex or something (though I strongly considered it in the weeks after Dday), but trusting myself - my judgment - to know what is real.
> 
> I was duped for so long and even when I had my suspicions, I rationalized them away because I truly, whole-heartedly, believed, TRUSTED, my husband would never do anything like this. I was stone cold wrong. Everything I thought was real was absolutely wrong. Turns out, I didn't really even know the man I was married to.
> 
> ...




2 yrs out, and trying to R a 30 yr marriage, believe me, when people ask me what is the secert to lasting that long, blows me away, as I now cant answer. All I can say now, "I have no answers, my perfect marriage failed, I know nothing." 

I have no idea how two people ever manage to co-exits in a marriage now, as this experience changes one profoundly.

~sammy


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Amp? How many years were you married before your wife fell for another man, if you dont mind me asking? 

~sammy


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

sammy3 said:


> Amp? How many years were you married before your wife fell for another man, if you dont mind me asking?
> 
> ~sammy


20 Years.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> 20 Years.


Amp: EA, PA or both?


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

I read these posts about reconciliation and I have to wonder, WHY? Why are you submitting yourselves to this torture? 

Why not start over with someone else? Do you not believe you can improve on a person who just crushed you? Co-dependence? Money? Kids? Family? 

Maybe it's love


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Yeah, apart from seeing and knowing that another dude was banging' your chick. Yeah, trust is the big reason why I didn't reconcile. I mean, how can I trust someone who put my emotional, financial and physical health at risk? 

And this, is what I come back to. My ex isn't a bad person. Not at all, she's a good person at her core- she's giving, she voluteers to feed homeless people, she's done toys for tots for years. She's a good person. But...... I don't trust her. I totally love her-(I've come to the conclusion that I always will). But I don't' trust her. Not with my heart. And it's sad. Really sad. 

Trust. I agree MattMatt, once it's broken. It's tough and more likely impossible to get back.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Philat said:


> Amp: EA, PA or both?


LDEA, They never met in person but plans were being made at the time of discovery.



maincourse99 said:


> I read these posts about reconciliation and I have to wonder, WHY? Why are you submitting yourselves to this torture?
> 
> Why not start over with someone else? Do you not believe you can improve on a person who just crushed you? Co-dependence? Money? Kids? Family?
> 
> Maybe it's love


Co-dependence? Nope, I was not afraid to move on as a single person. This scared my wife more than it did me.

Money? After 20 years together our finances were pretty intertwined. Dissolving the the marriage would have seriously impacted our QOL. We live in a no fault divorce state. As the husband I would have been hammered in court, no matter her affair. 

Kids? Absolutely. I in no way wanted to hurt my kids. They were also the primary reason my wife was willing to work at the marriage.

Family? We both came from strong Catholic mothers. Yes failure of the marriage would have been a shock to friends and family alike.

Love? Yes, I loved her deeply. Sometimes you don't realize what you have until you've lost it. And I had very much lost her.

Our story is stickied in the Reconciliation Forum if interested. Neither of us have ever regretted our decision to fix the marriage.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Trust can be a difficult thing to get back especially if the cheater does not fully understand the importance of having trust and the anguish a person goes through daily living without it.

I must give my WW a compliment in this area, other than one instance very soon after Dday, she has understood that rebuilding my trust is her responsibility every single day. She calls from her office line when she gets to work, she calls when she is leaving to come home, if she goes out (store, nails etc) she takes one of the kids or is with her mom and even then she checks in to let me know where she is at.
There is nothing she has that I can't look at, and I have taken the same approach with her, not that I ever kept anything from her but she has all my passwords and access to my phone whenever she wants.
To me rebuilding trust is not the hardest thing, it's looking at this person who has committed such terrible acts with such indifference toward you trying to believe them when they say "I love you" saying you love them the same as before and hoping that one day you will feel it again but coming to the realization you never will.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_Our story is stickied in the Reconciliation Forum if interested. Neither of us have ever regretted our decision to fix the marriage_

A heartwarming story. I wish you continued success.


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## amr1977 (Mar 2, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> I read these posts about reconciliation and I have to wonder, WHY? Why are you submitting yourselves to this torture?
> 
> Why not start over with someone else? Do you not believe you can improve on a person who just crushed you? Co-dependence? Money? Kids? Family?
> 
> Maybe it's love


I don't R. Can't say what I would do if I had kids and D meant damaging them and a financial meltdown. It is easy to say I would leave regardless, but I honestly don't know.

Not sure why you would mock someone for staying because they love their spouse. Leaving my first ex after she cheated was by far the most painful experience of my life. She was fully remorseful, literally on her knees begging me stay, and telling her no was about as hard as it gets. I left and I don't regret it, but I wouldn't look down on a man in similar circumstances who decided to stay.

Certain facets of infidelity are identical for all of us, but we all have different thresholds and different ways of perceiving and coping psychologically. One person's absolute dealbreaker is another person's issue to work thorugh. I would never stay with a cheating partner unless factors external to the relationship forced me to, but I am not MattMatt or any of the other people who seem to be happy with their choice to R.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I wish mine never met..., mine slept w her for 8 months, close friendship for 6, professed love for her, wished he had the strength to do "this" a long time ago, and admitted, "yeah,he probably fell out of love with me," when I thought we where just buzzing along... 

Neither one of us are or were bad people either...we are just such different people to each other now. He asked me the other day if I saw him at a cafe would I be attracted to him? How do you answer that now? Of course outwardly, but would I ever love another man that I knew was capable of cheating??Reality hurts... 

~sammy


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

maincourse99 said:


> I read these posts about reconciliation and I have to wonder, WHY? Why are you submitting yourselves to this torture?
> 
> Why not start over with someone else? Do you not believe you can improve on a person who just crushed you? Co-dependence? Money? Kids? Family?
> 
> Maybe it's love


In my case, that all holds true, particularly the co-dependance. Here’s the thing though, I started working on breaking that stuff and rebuilding. It doesn’t happen overnight and takes months. That bought the marriage time. About a year in my case.

Add to it, that as you are working on yourself, you start seeing your performance in the marriage in a ‘not so great’ light. You start owning part of why the marriage was in such a horrendous state and that some of her excuses are quite valid (not for adultery, but for why she was so distant, frustrated and angry with me).

And during that time, my wife was also working on herself.

So, as you head out of the tunnel, more centered and balanced with a realistic perspective of what you want, you find the relationship has changed as well. It is not so toxic. The past is nasty as hell, you don’t forget that. But the changes you both went through ignite some spark again of hope. It can’t be the same anymore because neither of you are the same and won’t make those same sorts of mistakes. 

It’s scary... You don’t know if they are going to revert, and you find yourself reverting sometimes yourself. You fight a ‘split’ because the past is still part of who we are, but there’s also the future. It is hard to reconcile the two since they appear so different. But it is a vastly different relationship.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Trust is proving to be way more important to me than I ever knew. I always knew that my WS didn't trust me and while it bothered me, it wasn't a huge problem because I know who I am and that I'm a loyal person because I've been tested and passed every opportunity to have an affair or ONS. 

I also had no reason, not to trust my WS prior to the suspicions of his infidelity. I chalked his lack of trust up to his mommy issues (I think she's a full-blown narcissist and has always mistreated him) and having been cheated on by women before I came along. I didn't equate his lack of trust to mean that he was cheating on me and felt I'd do the same to him. I didn't realize the projection being spewed my way over the years. I was loyal, I was patient, I was willing to love him through it. (LOL). 

However, now that we are living together and not reconciled (he wishes I'd just move on and love him like I did before), I realize how important trust is and was and how my love for him will never be what it was. I am sad and angry and still grieving the way I used to feel about him before all of this. Yesterday I triggered hard cooking dinner when Me and Mrs. Jones, a song I once loved and found romantic came on the radio. Hence my log-in today.

You need trust to feel vulnerable and love is vulnerability and surrender. I did that before, I surrendered and in return, he destroyed me. Once bitten, twice shy. I know he wants me to love him like I used to but I just don't. How can I? Hence no reconciliation. So we're at a standstill and I smile through it.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_I did that before, I surrendered and in return, he destroyed me. Once bitten, twice shy. I know he wants me to love him like I used to but I just don't. How can I? Hence no reconciliation. So we're at a standstill and I smile through it_

Being nosy here.. what's the plan?


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

There many areas in our life that I completely trust my WH. It is the trust from my heart that keeps us from reconnecting. He too would like to "return to the way it was before." I find this funny as he made a choice that to changed all of that and now he wants it back? Is he so self absorbed that he can not see that that will never be possible no matter what we decide to do. I do not get it sometimes the things he has to say as in "she meant nothing" when now she means everything to me.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

maincourse99 said:


> _I did that before, I surrendered and in return, he destroyed me. Once bitten, twice shy. I know he wants me to love him like I used to but I just don't. How can I? Hence no reconciliation. So we're at a standstill and I smile through it_
> 
> Being nosy here.. what's the plan?


It's not nosy. I'm an open-book when I'm on TAM. 

I have been looking for a full-time job in my field or a related field that will enable me to support myself and the kids. 

When not attending interviews, I am either working from home doing online sales. I also clean houses (I was running a cleaning business after I got laid off and throughout the first six months of my pregnancy with our second that was doing pretty good), when WS watches the kids.

It's not much but it's what I am able to do right now because I can't afford daycare for our youngest but also don't qualify for assistance with childcare until I get a full-time job. There's also nobody else who can/will watch our kids - mainly the youngest who is a little over 1.

WS claims to want a reconciliation but he isn't doing any heavy lifting. He is okay to rug-sweep. I am not. He knows I'm saving money but I think that he thinks that I'm bluffing and won't really leave him. I know differently. While it is admittedly taking longer than I'd like to be able to move, I am making progress towards it each month as much as I can. When I get a job and have my moving costs and rent in my account, I am gone because if he hasn't changed by now, I doubt he ever will.


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

Some very good and true insights on this thread:
-trust is EARNED not bestowed,
-it is multi-directional: trust in spouse, trust in yourself, 
-once destroyed, never the same, 
-loss of trust = loss of respect.
-difficulty of believing a reformed(?) liar 

All these things ring true to me having gone through the betrayal of infidelity. Its been 2 and one-half years since D-Day, when I learned that infidelities had been a secret cancer in our marriage for 20 years. I struggle on a roller coaster of emotions every day. Weeks will go by when we are intimately connecting and rebuilding and then bam! some trigger or mood will set me off lost in a storm of suspicion and fear. Even worse, after months of peace and a return to normality, the OW will decide to call my H just to say hi, how are things going? 

While H has tried hard to regain my trust with transparency, accountability, renewed love and continues to reform his character, his efforts have not been consistent enough to convince me totally...yet. While the OW ignores his requests for NC, and intrudes in our life when she pleases, he has not grown the balls necessary to tell her simply and clearly to f..k off!

But is any of this a deal-breaker? Apparently not, for I love him with all his faults and cannot imagine myself with anyone else. I am still struggling to trust and forgive myself first and regain enough trust in him to live normally and finally gain back the respect I had for him before he threw it all away...and for what? For a deceitful and dishonorable life he claims he can hardly remember with a woman he says means nothing to him now...


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

It really is about the trust.

At this point, I don't even care who he's had sex with (something he vehemently denies to this very day). I just want the truth. i just want him to say it. To finally be able to admit and give me the gift of truth.

I'm hoping the divorce papers in his face will be the catalyst for letting it all go, but something tells me we could be divorced 10 years and he will still stick to his story.

Yeah. It's definitely all about the trust.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

jupiter13 said:


> There many areas in our life that I completely trust my WH. It is the trust from my heart that keeps us from reconnecting. He too would like to "return to the way it was before." I find this funny as he made a choice that to changed all of that and now he wants it back? Is he so self absorbed that he can not see that that will never be possible no matter what we decide to do. I do not get it sometimes the things he has to say as in "she meant nothing" when now she means everything to me.


Thank god she didn't mean anything to him.. what a relief that must be. You should be thankful. :scratchhead:


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> Yes that is the biggest problem.


Years ago my biggest problem was trusting myself


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> It really is about the trust.
> 
> At this point, I don't even care who he's had sex with (something he vehemently denies to this very day). I just want the truth. i just want him to say it. To finally be able to admit and give me the gift of truth.
> 
> ...


I guess at the end of the day, but it's about trusting of the heart.. not just trust, but trust of your emotional well being.

I got the gift of truth, and I still don't believe it's all.. I doubt our entire three decades together now.. what she was doing behind my back all those years. How much of what she's told me throughout my life, is actually true.. or just stuff she fabricated to suit her agenda. One thing I did learn is that the girl can lie..


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