# I don't get it



## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

I don't remember now how long ago I first posted on here. It has been about 3.5 years since my affair was revealed to my wife. I don't think my story is terribly unique from what I have read on here. Every inch of the last 3.5 years has been a grind. A painful, demoralizing grind that I can't see the end of. The background of my other posts might help this make sense, but I just don't get both holding onto the pain and bitterness caused by the betrayal and lying of the affair AND not taking steps to end the relationship (by the betrayed). 

It is as though she is both unwilling to move forward and unwilling to let go.

It leads me to think the only way for a relationship to survive infidelity is for the betrayed to choose it...to move forward with the intent of loving the person who was unfaithful or to cut it off.

I also think the biggest factor that can affect what happens is the intrinsic self-worth of the betrayed. Can you find value in yourself even if someone else has told you with their actions that they do not (or did not) value you as a partner, a spouse?

I do understand why my wife has never chosen to end the relationship. I don't understand why she chooses to continually tear it back down past the foundation. And maybe it is because I don't understand my own role in rebuilding it.

I'm lost in what action to take. I feel shell shocked every time she blows up. She screams at me (still in front of the kids). She fakes hitting me to make me flinch...I don't know how to describe this...it is new as of this morning. She was yelling and started making exaggerated in-my-face hand gestures while popping her face close to mine. I guess i would call it aggressive posturing intended to intimidate and scare me? It works just like that. This is how she tells me what she needs to make progress....every time it happens I withdraw. It scares the life out of me. She wants me to overcome the demeaning treatment, name calling, threatening, and whatnot by telling her what I love about her. When I say I don't understand...she gets angrier. It simply does not make sense to me.

Every time I have posted here, the majority of replies have been to say "its over dude, move on". I think the short answer is, I'm not going to move on. I will go down with this ship...or have already. And at the same time, I still have intrinsic self-worth. I don't think my life is over. I believe love is real. I believe people like me for me. I don't know that my wife does. But as a whole...people see value in me and so do I...as a father, as a friend, as a contributor to society. 

And so...while I accept that 60% or more of replies to this post will say "its over...move on", I would love to hear suggestions for how to make it clear (3.5 years later...after many attempts) that I regret the affair and am remorseful, that I love my wife and want to protect her and make her happy, that I am not the same as I was during the affair (though some things are the same...I still have many needs that are not being met, though they have largely been put on hold now for more than 3 years).


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## MambaZee (Aug 6, 2013)

Are you two getting counseling, either IC or MC? I don't know exactly what you're doing to show remorse but you'll hear tons of "show, don't tell." Do you have any idea how she views affectionate acts, because what's affection to one person may be different to the next. At the very least, I'd say counseling is in order if you two really want to stay together. Also, 3.5 years seems long to you, but in terms of recovery, it's not so long.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Why is do you insist on "going down with this ship"?


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## Want2babettrme (May 17, 2013)

thebadguy said:


> I don't remember now how long ago I first posted on here. It has been about 3.5 years since my affair was revealed to my wife. I don't think my story is terribly unique from what I have read on here. Every inch of the last 3.5 years has been a grind. A painful, demoralizing grind that I can't see the end of. The background of my other posts might help this make sense, but I just don't get both holding onto the pain and bitterness caused by the betrayal and lying of the affair AND not taking steps to end the relationship (by the betrayed).
> 
> It is as though she is both unwilling to move forward and unwilling to let go.
> 
> ...


The bolded section shows her behavior is clearly abusive both to you and the children. Have you been able to talk with her about her anger when both of you are calm? Anger is a normal reaction to being betrayed by your SO, but after 3.5 years it seems hers is escalating. Has she had any IC and has there been any MC to help her process her anger toward you? I did not see any mention, but maybe I missed it.

Another thought, could her aggressive behavior be intended, even possibly subconsciously, to draw an aggressive reaction from you, thereby validating her rage and mistreatment of you? That is, attack you until you react, then "See, I knew you were a bad guy."

Abuse is never acceptable and she seems to be escalating the abuse. Read about dealing with an abusive SO. Get IC for your self to help you deal with the situation.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Just got to weather to storm, put yourself in her shoes. If she cheated on you, would you just be laid back and move on like nothing happened. 16 years and counting and my wife still blows once in a blue moon. I just ride out the storm. She went through worst


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

CH said:


> Just got to weather to storm, put yourself in her shoes. If she cheated on you, would you just be laid back and move on like nothing happened. 16 years and counting and my wife still blows once in a blue moon. I just ride out the storm. She went through worst


I would say that after three years of this, that riding out the storm is not working. Looks like this storm has no ending. Yes, you are the one that cheated, but to me, enough is enough.

Since you are the WS, I can appreciate you wanting to go down with the ship; but by taking away the option of divorce, you are all but eliminating your best opportunity to save this marriage - even if it's a small one. If she doesn't believe that you will leave her, she has little or no motivation to change her behavior.

If you have demonstrated remorse for all these years, there just has to come a point where you have to do what's best for you.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My WH's approach was that good guys don't leave their wives. Despite what (I eventually learned) was a habitual pattern of serial cheating stretching back to the second year of our 15+ year marriage, he was never going to leave me. Because good guys don't do that. So, in order for it to end, I had to be the one to leave him. I could either choose to do it on my own, or he would stonewall R and push me away with all his might until I did. But either way, he was _not_ going to be the bad guy who left his wife. So, I left. Now, I'm the bad guy who left. 

Is it possible that this is the dynamic you're dealing with? Are you aware that your wife can't get past this, but sticking around because you don't want to be the one to break up the marriage? Is it possible she feels similarly - that she didn't cheat so she's not going to be the bad guy who breaks up the marriage? She may be pushing you to do it because in her mind, you deserve to be seen as not only a cheater but one who left his wife and kids over it.

In any case, it's not a healthy marital dynamic. Seek intensive counseling for the both of you, or grow some stones and end this.


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## tug (Sep 1, 2013)

I feel so sorry for you as I know what your going through. My g/f hasnt been physically abusive but she has put me through hell emotionally. Im not sure which is worst the emotional hell or the physical abuse both will tear a person down and make them feel like they are worth absolutely nothing. 

Its so easy for me to tell you, you have to get away from your wife because she isnt good for you and will do nothing but make you miserable but as I said Im in a similar situation and even though I know leaving is the best thing for me Im having a hard time accepting it and doing what's best for me. I sincerely hope everything works out for the best


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

CH said:


> Just got to weather to storm, put yourself in her shoes. If she cheated on you, would you just be laid back and move on like nothing happened.


I have no doubt she cheated on him, likely still going on.


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

She is still pissed and sounds like she is stuck in that all too familiar anger stage. How she is behaving towards you is so wrong and I believe you recognize that. In front of the kids is not acceptable. Do you want your kids to see their mother treat their father in this way? I would hope that you don't allow this anymore. You are better than that no matter what you did in the past.

3 years is such a long time to be stuck and mired in all this crap. I haven't read your other posts, but ask yourself if you deserve a better life than this right at this moment. I think you do. Whether it is with your wife or without her, this is not a way to live.


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

After reading some more I am going to say that there is NOTHING else YOU can do to make it clear to your wife that you are sorry, etc. That is up to her to realize and to either move on or not. You might be at the point where you are now and that is: WTH else can I do?!? The answer is you can't do anything else. Now, the ball is in her court and she needs to decide if she is going to stop being bitter and moving on or not from what has happened in the marriage.

I am really sorry when I read stories like this as it just shows how far-reaching infidelity is. I am glad to read that you have self-worth and feel good about who you are today. Keep your kids first and foremost in all of this; from my own situation this is what I try to do.

Take care.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Why do you think she is cheating, Acabado?

Any chance, OP? Have you done any recon?

Have you tried living apart for a while (6 months or more) to provide some distance and perspective for you both? Insisting on IC and MC after a couple of months should be attempted.

She has more to gain by making you pay for cheating than she thinks she would get out of making either of the more difficult choices. The question is what, and that's the first Q for the therapist.

She never wants you to humiliate her again. That's an easy one. Money always factors in. Admitting defeat after being cheated on is also humiliated.

Other than the kids, who knows about her anger, etc? Have you talked with her parents?

Not forcing a change is on you. If you are staying under all circumstances, there is nothing anyone can help you with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Dude dump her and move on.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Why do you think she is cheating, Acabado?


Read this, just a few pages. Long hard road...looking for hope.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

thebadguy said:


> I don't remember now how long ago I first posted on here. It has been about 3.5 years since my affair was revealed to my wife. I don't think my story is terribly unique from what I have read on here. Every inch of the last 3.5 years has been a grind. A painful, demoralizing grind that I can't see the end of. The background of my other posts might help this make sense, but I just don't get both holding onto the pain and bitterness caused by the betrayal and lying of the affair AND not taking steps to end the relationship (by the betrayed).
> 
> It is as though she is both unwilling to move forward and unwilling to let go.
> 
> ...


Dear tbg,

If you've read many posts on TAM/CWI, you heard the expression, "in order to save your marriage, you have to be prepared to lose it."

Generally (actually, until now, to my knowledge), this advice has been given to BSs who are having difficulty understanding that, until they are prepared to leave an unrepentent WS, the WS has little incentive to reform.

But, assuming you are providing us with all the salient facts and have done all that a WS can do to show remorse, provide support and comfort your BS, I think this advice applies to your situation. Perhaps, once she understands that you can no longer bear her seemingly unquenchable anger, she will decide that she has punished you enough and that it is time to begin to heal -- together.

Please understand that I am not saying, "its over...move on" but rather that, sometimes, a person who is locked into a form of destructive behavior needs to be forced to make a choice either to end the behavior or to accept the end of the relationship.

Wishing you and your family the best possible outcome.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

I am a BS who is experiencing a lot of anger towards what my WH did however, I wold never condone this amount or severity of anger. I am struggling with my desire to make it work and my angry days where I can hardly look at him. I explained this to him, that it's part of my healing process but it's still early days for us. three and a half years is a long time but its hard to determine how long someone's healing will take. Sounds like she needs to somehow find another coping mechanism or outlet for her anger so she does not continue to damage the relationship's healing process.. It is hard to heal yourself as well as your relationship at the same time. I too would suggest she go to IC and the two of you go to MC.... Maybe hearing from an outside source that what she is doing is a form of abuse will give her a different perspective... That said, it's uber important that you express your feelings of remorse and back them up with actions. Even a WS has a right to not be abused....


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear tbg,
> 
> If you've read many posts on TAM/CWI, you heard the expression, "in order to save your marriage, you have to be prepared to lose it."
> 
> ...


:iagree:

In my professional opinion your wife is a nut job. I could give you a more enlightened professional diagnosis.

You don't want to be told to leave her. You want to be given advice on how to convince her that you love her, that you have remorse, etc.

If what you are saying is the truth then it is time to pack up your bags and rent a room. Tell her what your plan is. Tell her that you can no longer tolerate her abuse. You will more than likely hear, "this is all your fault, you made me this way, etc". Don't tolerate her behavior. There is time when a WS takes some abuse but 3.5 years later is way beyond the time that your wife should be behaving like this and this behavior is way out of the norm.

Professionally, I would advice any couple who is at this stage and is in this state to do a contractual separation. Agree on the rules, etc. 

But your wife's actions is way off the normal scale.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

We tried 2 different counselors together. In each case, I continued going after she decided she was done. I have been to another counselor since. The details of all of this are in the other thread. She believes I lied to the first counselor. She believes the 2nd was nuts himself. Both suggested she needs counseling. One suggested anti-depressants. The other suggested she is BPD. A 3rd and 4th counselor have agreed with the notion of BPD based on my description, but have never talked to her (self-harming behavior and the rage events). She refuses. She says she will not go to counseling for herself. BPD or not, she has a lot of unresovled issues from her childhood. Rape, molestation, eating disorder, her mom threatened to kill her if her adopted father left the mom. And more.

The big sticking points for both of us in separating are the children and then money. I make a good amount but we are very much paycheck to paycheck and in debt. She is now working nights 3-4 days a week for minimum wage to try to keep us afloat. She has a college degree, as do I.

Children...if I move out, she insists I get them no more than every other weekend and one overnight. Says she should not be punished for my actions. Thus, why should she lose the kids? 2 of them are in school now, the other is still in preschool.

I am willing to split time 50/50. I would even be open to a myriad of options that don't sacrifice my relationship with our kids.

If I move out, I have no idea how we would maintain 2 households on the income we have. She would need to get a better paying job or I would have to get a 2nd. 

In an odd twist, we effectively pay a 2nd mortgage to pay for her oldest daughter's private schooling...the daughter is from a prior marraige.

She is unwilling to leave the house because she would have to notify her ex that the daughter is moving. Before this, all her anger was largely focused on him and his new wife.

So...there is no agreeing on custody, no option to agree on money, and she refuses to be the one to move...even though she is the one with parents close by.

Her personality is very strong...forceful. She will not budge on child custody. I feel like I am sending my kids to be abused 3/4 of the time if I agree to what she wants.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I wouldn't be making any assumptions about child custody until you talk with an attorney. She can't use the infidelity as a hammer over you, even if you're in an at fault state, because she's attempted R, so legally that's not a factor.

Do you want your children to continue to grow up in this kind of abusive environment?


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_Are you aware that your wife can't get past this, but sticking around because you don't want to be the one to break up the marriage? _

You might be doing her a favor by leaving. She's tortured. If you leave, maybe she'll be able to heal. View it as a learning experience.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I will suggest this:

1. Go see an attorney about custody, separation, and divorce. You don't have to do a thing other then get educated on your options.
2. See what you can do to get out of debt.
3. Figure out what you assets are and your debts.
4. If things are that bad financially, then fix up a room in the house and do a in-home separation and start the 180.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

I saw an attorney about 2 years ago after she had chased me around the house spitting on me, punched me, flipped a train table and all its contents a couple feet from our then 4 yo, broke dishes, and a list of other stuff.

he suggested a restraining order at the time...as had a counselor and my dad. 

I threatened her with a restraining order but did not file. 

As for custody, the expected result in my state these days is 50/50, though I am sure there are exceptions. There is nothing in my history that should warrant me getting less than that (except for the affair...which I am told doesn't affect custody unless the child is exposed to danger as a consequence. I am an involved father and my kids like me. I expect I should be able to get 50/50 if not better. BUT...I am still of the impression that it is a toss of the dice. I hate the notion of risking my kids. 

I have pushed debt issues with her. She does all the financial stuff. I don't have passwords to our accounts. I earn 95% of the income or greater but all the bills, cards, accounts...she has control of. I pulled the financial info for 90 days out of our accounting software...we are paying some ridiculous interest rates. I suggested reorganizing our debt to pay less interest. She felt that was a manipulative scheme to stick her with the debt. I don't know how...she had 20k in credit card debt when I married her. Seems to me, if anything, reaffirming that debt under a joint account would push it more toward marrital debt.

Thinking about in-house separation... There are 4 kids and 4 bedrooms. She has ours (I am not in there). The kids take up the other 3. I would have to move to the basement. Though I am sleeping on the couch now anyway...3.5 years post. 

We are almost separated in-house right now. I read up on the 180 back in january. Much of what I do is in line with the 180. Except...when she pushes really hard, I relent. Probably my mistake to do that.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Get control of the finances my friend. She can spit all she wants. Do you share the computer? If so, put a keylogger on it and get the freaken passwords. If the computer is just hers, then you will have to go with other options and don't do the keylogger.

Get a VAR and keep it on you at all times. In our state it is legal as long as you have it on you or are present when recording, the other party does not need to know about it. 

Focus on getting control of the money. If you have to, open up a new account and have your pay go into that account.  You can always transfer money for the bills. Have her show you the bills and you write out a check. You can do this legally. It will be a little pain but very doable.

You need to stop caving in to her. You need to take back some of the M power. Right now most of it is in her side and that needs to be more balanced. Let her spit and spew and when she does walk out, go in the basement, lock yourself in the bathroom. 

Taking over the finances will give you some power back. 

Don't let her BS you with manipulation. Focus on your finances, don't relent on this, get control and you can do this by having your pay go into a new account. No matter what, to that. You will not be cutting her off, but taking control.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So what are you doing to stop her EA? Or is that something you have to accept?

If she refuses full disclosure and total access, right there and then, tell her you want her to take a poly.

Turn off her phone.

Do something about this! 

Maybe that's why she doesn't believe you love her. You aren't fighting for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Did you ever have calm discussions about your A? Why you think you did what you did? Or has your home been essentially siege warfare since you were busted?

You say you want some way, if possible, to make it truly clear to her that you love her and are not the same man you were before, but it sounds like she is well beyond being open to believing that. Do you have any glimmers of real hope for that? Why do you love her if your life is as you describe it?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You've lost sex and intimacy over the past three years. That is hard on you. Have you asked her sympathetically how it feels for her?

Tell her she must need love and sex to feel healthy and fulfilled. If you cannot sin back that position, she will suffer too much
_Posted via Mobile Device_

I meant "win" back. But sin back makes sense, too


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

In order to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it but it seems that you are not willing to do that. You are asking for advice but you are only considering advice that is to your liking. I believe you want to stay in your current situation and are simply looking for validation to do so.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> So what are you doing to stop her EA? Or is that something you have to accept?
> 
> Maybe that's why she doesn't believe you love her. You aren't fighting for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have brought up the EA. Talked about it. Talked about whether it was a friendship or an EA. I am still convinced it is an EA. She blows upas though her behavior is beyond examination given mine.

Her claim is that she doesn't hide it, therefore what she is doign and what I did are not the same. But I know she deletes many/all of their texts. She deleted many emails. They have stopped using email, probably because she knows I have access to it. She keeps a separate email account that she keeps the password to. She either keeps it very clean or does not use it for this purpose. She does use it to keep emails between her and the OPH from my affair. Which...ok. She wants to feel like her proof is safe. Funny thing is, the proof she has, shows my AP and I texted each other about 15 times over 6 months (she has the OW's phone records curtesy of her husband. I estimate she has texted this man 1000 in the month of August.

She refuses to see that what she is doing is wrong. That is effectively it...she feels me having an affair gives her license to do ANYTHING she wants. Hit me, scream at me, have an affair herself. She feels rightous. She is not in the marriage. She wants payback...whether I pay her back with kindness or she pays me back with abuse and an affair of her own. She doesn't care....other than all kindness gets wiped from her memory moments after it happens....so the cup is never full...the cup isn't even holding water.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Did you ever have calm discussions about your A? Why you think you did what you did? Or has your home been essentially siege warfare since you were busted?
> 
> You say you want some way, if possible, to make it truly clear to her that you love her and are not the same man you were before, but it sounds like she is well beyond being open to believing that. Do you have any glimmers of real hope for that? Why do you love her if your life is as you describe it?


Yes. We had those discussions in the 1st year after. I let her know I had needs not being met. Emotional support. I can't say I approached it right. Even though I was saying I was responsible for the affair, she heard me blaming her for it. Me having needs not met by her and going elsewhere to fill them = the affair was her fault (to her). She had/has needs not met too. I have only spuratically tried to meet all of them in the last few years. Every time there is a blow up, I retreat...I don't handle being yelled at well at all. I shut down and curl into a ball. Even without the affair, we had not been good spouses to eachother for years.

In the 1st year, I would say she was trying much more than she is now. She didn't hit me at all in the 1st 1.5 years. Broke stuff. Burned the marriage certificate. Hurt herself...yes. Name calling...withholding the kids. The allnight marathons of talking lasted 2 years...at least twice a week. I don't let that happen anymore. I need sleep...even if it is on the couch.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

start the divorce process and try to rebuild after the fall out.

stay in the house and if she goes on a triraid again cll the police and file a restraining order. 

start doing everything you can to get your finances in order.

I know that you don't want any of this but it seems she is forcing your hand. she dose sound like she has some sort of BPD. now that you have cheated she turned all her attention on punishing you instead of her x who she probly had similar behaivor with and thats why he left also.

time to look at this with both eyes open. she cheated(ea) you cheated and now she an angry abusive woman and everybody around her is walking on egg shells.

my friend its time to take the lumps that life sometime deals us. 

good luck.

the longer this situations stay this way the worse it is for everybody involved. pull the plug.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You keep asking for a magic formula, tips, tricks... to improve your situation, refuse to hear that there's no hope and you need to take actions to move on a new beggining. Thing is there's no advice we can share because your wife don't behave whithin the normal standars... because she's not "normal", very far from the bell curve.
There's no action A which will/could elicit behavior B.

It's what it is. Already told you so in your latest thread.
I really believe you already know, this thread is more venting that anything else. There are no more stones to turn.
You will take actions when you are "ready", when the pain of staying get worse than the other alternative. It will come in time, at your schedule.
You have shown an endless capacity of suffering. It's really a hard hand you have to deal with, I'm very sorry about it.

Be nice to you, take care of those kids as better you can. Hang in there.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

FourtyPlus said:


> In order to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it but it seems that you are not willing to do that. You are asking for advice but you are only considering advice that is to your liking. I believe you want to stay in your current situation and are simply looking for validation to do so.


I don't want to lose my marriage. You are right. Are you suggesting I file for divorce?

I do want to keep my kids. I fear opening the can of worms of a split household. The relationship of my wife with her exhusband over their daughter has been a 12 year bitter fight..and part of what has pushed the two of us apart. I see how custody works with her. It is bitter and painful to this day. The girl is 14. When he first met his now wife, and he didn't let my wife control when and how their daughter met the new woman, she accused the new woman's daughter (one year older than my wife's daughter) of molesting her. Hotlined her. Went to the ER on multiple occasions for safety exams. Went back to court to get custody changed. There was nothing found in the safety exams. Judge did nothing but change the plan so that the exh didn't have to pay for education (my wife wanted the daughter to go to private school...he wanted her to go to public). whole thing was drug out so long that the exh married the new woman and had a baby before the judgement was made. The 14yo still goes there one night a week and every other weekend. I am not saying her exh is a prince. He is not. 

So...I do not like the current situation. I am afraid of some of the alternatives. And to your point....i am probably looking for the sunshine and rainbows type of advice or perhaps even some pity as opposed to the suggestion that I "man-up and divorce"...or even fain divorce. I don't think my wife will review me filing for divorce and say "man....i screwed up, I need to make this right". I think she will say "ok...it's on!"

Tough love is overrated. Do I want to hear the difficult stuff? Yes. Will I do anything about it? Man...i hope one day I do...for my kids, for me. I hope it is before she falsely accuses me of abuse or something of the sort to get me kicked out of the house. I also know one size does not fit all.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Unfortunately, once a partner cheats all kinds of lines become blurred. You don't have any moral leverage, but at the same time you guys can't live this way. So once again, why are your so hell bent on staying in the marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

I could not let go of things. I wasn't nearly that angry or abusive but my constant jabs, sarcasm, bringing up past events....went on for almost 4 years. I also had a ONS as revenge to his PA and I'm sure my guilt and my own actions were projected onto what he did to me which just amplified my anger. 

It ate away at the marriage more than I ever realized. After I finally made the decision to let go it was too late. The damage was done. The verbal onslaught we did to each other during our fights was too much. He checked out and then started an EA. 

We did not do IC or MC. Not sure if that would have made a difference to saving the marriage as he is a serial cheater and a huge narcissist, but I'm sure it would have at least helped us deal with the fallout in a more healthy manner.

I really think your wife needs some serious IC to deal with her anger issues. Her reactions are extreme to the max and very very very very abusive. I was angry too, but it never got physical, I never broke things, I never intimidated or got in his face.....yes it was heated but never abusive. 

Protect yourself and your kids. They are being damaged the longer they are around that mess.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

OK, so you only want suggestions on how to stay with her. Since she appears to have serious issues, perhaps BPD, the potentially constructive things to that end could always just be non-starters. 

Nonetheless:

- Recommit to the marriage with a ceremony that symbolically wipes the slate clean and redeclares your love.

- Sign up for a marital retreat for intensive MC work together.

- Negotiate a written contract with her re ongoing behavior and commitments; give her the power/option to put down on paper what she wants and expects out of the marriage for the future.

- Try to rebuild some respectful behavior, e.g.,:

--Enforced date night with enforced rules on civility.
-- New house rules starting with 'no bad behavior in front of the children.'

- Set a conscious deadline between the two of you before which you both promise to be on best behavior, show respect for one another, and work on things. If this fails -> divorce.

Etc.

You have probably tried many similar things. I read your earlier thread and noted both the serious dysfunction in the marriage and the fact that your W appears to have a very close relationship with another man (EA or PA?). I, too, think you should call a spade a spade & save yourself at this point & don't really understand your motivation. Love? Till death do us part? Guilt? All of these?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I think you are both be selfish sorry. You have children in the house who are obviously loving in a very toxic environment.
You both have to change otherwise Onr of you should make the decision and leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

One area you can work on, is to start on the finances. Have your paycheck put into your own bank account and you have no idea where she is spending the money. You can not afford the private school anymore. Yes, she will scream, but she is screaming now. She may be spending money on her boyfriend. You would not know. You have lived in this mess for too long. She does not respect you and it is time for you to respect yourself. You do need a recorder on you at all times, but you will never finish paying for your affair. You do need to help your kids know this is not ok. Your affair will always be on you, but you are not standing up to her for her affair. You need to make changes somehow or leave. Which is worse? Doing what you are doing now for the rest of your life or start making changes?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

thebadguy said:


> I have brought up the EA. Talked about it. Talked about whether it was a friendship or an EA. I am still convinced it is an EA. She blows upas though her behavior is beyond examination given mine.
> .


let me summarize: you haven't done anything about it .

seriously get yourself into counseling .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

@thebadguy

What exactly do you want to hear ? You say you will go down with the ship.. WTF is that ? What does it mean ? 
Does it mean just have her kill you in your bed one night ? 
Have her crash the car with you and the kids in it ? 
Have her kill the kids one day while your at work to punish you ? 

I am NOT telling you to smack the sh1t out of her. But defend yourself. Your allowed to defend yourself and restrain her if needed. 

You want to stay there to have your kids grow up to be fvcked up ? 

Open up what can of worms ?.. Look there is no magical way around this.. A divorce is nothing but a financial agreement. They add up the debt and the cash and split it based on salary. 

As far as child support goes that is never touched.. That has nothing to do with what you have and owe.. So you won't get something along the lines of If I give you the house with 500k of equity I will reduce my child support by X amount. 

That daughter of hers will have to stop going to private school I guess.. 

Look my wife attempted 3 affairs on me 1 before marriage and 2 after. I don't know what she had in between. Then finally the last one which is number 4.. Again that I know of. 

We have been together for 19 years with 2 boys..

I forgave her all those times. I would have forgiven her this last time as well. But I knew there was a time where I would have to suck it up and internalize of my issues and triggers, otherwise it would have never worked out. Silly me right.. Hindsight is 20/20.

Put up a camera somewhere and record her out bursts. Family court is different then criminal. You have more leeway there. 

Again ask a lawyer.

But dude you need to stop sitting on your hands.. You really have to make an adult choice here. 

As far as custody and such that isn't up to her.. Courts decide that.. 

The only thing that will help anything is if you can prove she is nuts.. Which I think you can..

Look I understand I felt helpless for many months but even I got over my wife and the hopelessness. Your 3 years into this.. When is it enough ? 

Oh wait you're going down with the ship.. 

You need to screw your head on straight.. Protect your kids.. Do you want them growing up dysfunctional like her or honestly you ?

Don't you want your kids to be able to resolve problems and not wonder what to do all the time ?

You really need to dig deep here. Sometimes it doesn't end up like you think.. 

Look at me..

I thought I would be saddled with a 2200 a month child support check. 1000k a month from my pension for the rest of my life and 20k from annuity. 

End result my kids are with me. I pay her 700 a month for now.. I gave her 55k and will give her another 5k-6k hopefully for full custody in 4 to 5 months. At a minimum I will pay no child support and she will have to pay me. 

You never know how stuff turns out.. But you need to play chess not checkers in this game called life.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

thebadguy said:


> It has been about 3.5 years since my affair was revealed to my wife.... Every inch of the last 3.5 years has been a grind. A painful, demoralizing grind that I can't see the end of.... but I just don't get both holding onto the pain and bitterness caused by the betrayal and lying of the affair AND not taking steps to end the relationship (by the betrayed).


You're kidding, right? I mean, what do you expect? You betrayed her trust and faith and she is suffering. Maybe she continues to do so due to your expectations for her to just get over it. See, you can move on because you're the criminal. She is the victim and they don't get over so easily what was done to them.



thebadguy said:


> It is as though she is both unwilling to move forward and unwilling to let go.


Can't say as I blame her. I realize you are clueless as to what she has been through but you have to cut her an immense amount of slack for the rest of her life. It comes with being a betrayer. 



thebadguy said:


> It leads me to think the only way for a relationship to survive infidelity is for the betrayed to choose it...to move forward with the intent of loving the person who was unfaithful or to cut it off.


Interesting thought. I sort of get that. But the fact she hasn't cut it off tells me she is trying in her own way.



thebadguy said:


> I also think the biggest factor that can affect what happens is the intrinsic self-worth of the betrayed.


The self worth of a betrayed is totally destroyed by the betrayer. It is up to the betrayer to build it back up.



thebadguy said:


> I do understand why my wife has never chosen to end the relationship. I don't understand why she chooses to continually tear it back down past the foundation. And maybe it is because I don't understand my own role in rebuilding it.
> 
> I'm lost in what action to take. I feel shell shocked every time she blows up. She screams at me (still in front of the kids). She fakes hitting me to make me flinch...I don't know how to describe this...it is new as of this morning. She was yelling and started making exaggerated in-my-face hand gestures while popping her face close to mine. I guess i would call it aggressive posturing intended to intimidate and scare me? It works just like that. This is how she tells me what she needs to make progress....every time it happens I withdraw. It scares the life out of me. She wants me to overcome the demeaning treatment, name calling, threatening, and whatnot by telling her what I love about her. When I say I don't understand...she gets angrier. It simply does not make sense to me.


Know what? This tells me she is still hurting and not getting the support she requires from the betrayed. 



thebadguy said:


> But as a whole...people see value in me and so do I...as a father, as a friend, as a contributor to society.


They must not know you are a betrayer of people's love, faith and trust that they place in you and also an over inflated view of yourself which is common among betrayers and tells me you aren't doing what is needed for your wife.



thebadguy said:


> ...I would love to hear suggestions for how to make it clear (3.5 years later...after many attempts) that I regret the affair and am remorseful, that I love my wife and want to protect her and make her happy, that I am not the same as I was during the affair (though some things are the same...I still have many needs that are not being met, though they have largely been put on hold now for more than 3 years).


No disrespect intended, but I am confident in saying that if you have really become the man you say you have it would have paid dividends with your wife. I mean, we have your side of how perfect you have become, but my suggestion (and I am dead serious) is maybe to reconsider how great you really are to her and society... Maybe ask her how great you have become and ask for her honest criticism. Or maybe have her come on TAM and see if she agrees with your post. I'm guessing you see yourself substantially different than she, the betrayed, does. And that's all that's important.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Very refreshing with a different view on this sad story. There is one thing I disagree with, though.

The sad truth about infidelity is that it's up to both parties to rebuild their own self esteem.

Or maybe that's even a good thing.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> You're kidding, right? I mean, what do you expect? You betrayed her trust and faith and she is suffering. Maybe she continues to do so due to your expectations for her to just get over it. See, you can move on because you're the criminal. She is the victim and they don't get over so easily what was done to them.


I wasn't kidding, no. She is suffering, yes. That is what she tells me. And yes, I can move on because I am the criminal. Putting her behavior aside, I don't understand what she needs from me to heal. She has given me a few points...in the context of everything they are hard to implement. And perhaps I do have to realize that I caused it. What I don't get is how to give her kind words in a meaningful way. In my own little mind, I think I give her kind words. It is not easy to do anymore. It doesn't need to be easy, but I can't figure out what she wants when she asks for that.





thatbpguy said:


> Can't say as I blame her. I realize you are clueless as to what she has been through but you have to cut her an immense amount of slack for the rest of her life. It comes with being a betrayer.


What does this mean? What is a generous amount of slack? What is simply unacceptable regardless of what I have done? The hitting and the yelling in front of the kids...I have deemed those unacceptable. But she still does them and tells me they are in bounds for her. Are they? 




thatbpguy said:


> Interesting thought. I sort of get that. But the fact she hasn't cut it off tells me she is trying in her own way.


This I both understand and at the same time, don't get. I have tried to step into her shoes in my own head. I think it is just not possible for me to do, because I would not ever have been where she is. 



thatbpguy said:


> The self worth of a betrayed is totally destroyed by the betrayer. It is up to the betrayer to build it back up.


To me, it is self-worth...it is the value she puts on herself. How do I show her she has value? I have said it, given examples, written it, said it to other people in her presence. What are other ways to do this?



thatbpguy said:


> Know what? This tells me she is still hurting and not getting the support she requires from the betrayed.


I can see this. It is in line with her written words. Please give some examples of generous support in this way.




thatbpguy said:


> They must not know you are a betrayer of people's love, faith and trust that they place in you and also an over inflated view of yourself which is common among betrayers and tells me you aren't doing what is needed for your wife.


You are right. They don't know. I don't tell them. I think I am a scumbag for what I did 3.5 years ago. I also think I enrich the lives of others in some ways. Perhaps I don't keep an accurate scale of Scumbag vs Samaritan. Probably don't. Scumbag side has some pretty heavy weights on it. I am trying to even it out in my own ways...probably not big enough.



thatbpguy said:


> No disrespect intended, but I am confident in saying that if you have really become the man you say you have it would have paid dividends with your wife. I mean, we have your side of how perfect you have become, but my suggestion (and I am dead serious) is maybe to reconsider how great you really are to her and society... Maybe ask her how great you have become and ask for her honest criticism. Or maybe have her come on TAM and see if she agrees with your post. I'm guessing you see yourself substantially different than she, the betrayed, does. And that's all that's important.


She tells me how terrible I am quite often. After a while, her words are lost on me. And in the context of what I have been doing since the affair, I don't know how to interpret what she is saying. I am, at worst, quiet. In the context of DURING the affair...I get it. 

What you say here is the calm version of her view. Unfortuantely, it gets sandwiched between some pretty hard-to-take stuff. It leaves me on my heels quite often, reeling, and unsure what to do differently.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

please answer the question about how you are going to address her EA.

if you're serious about saving your marriage it has to start there . it doesn't matter that she has the ability to point the finger back at you . she chose to stay married . so did you . now one of you is breaking your vows . which of you is it ?

staying together after an affair is the beginning of the new marriage . agreeing to stay is an unspoken renewal of vows. 

compel, her order her, I don't care what you do this man is cut off 100 percent ASAP . turn off her phone . get rid of the Internet . start acting like a man who wants to save his marriage . 

she can only continue to berate you because you are a man of inaction . and a lot of ways you're more like a nagging wife . how many men do we know that are inspired by a nagging wife ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> please answer the question about how you are going to address her EA.
> 
> ...she can only continue to berate you because you are a man of inaction . and a lot of ways you're more like a nagging wife . how many men do we know that are inspired by a nagging wife ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know how I am going to address her EA.

I looked at her phone this morning. She left it at home. 202 messages still on the phone from the other guy in the past 2 weeks, i fully expect she has deleted any inappropriate messages and left the rest. None of them reek of flirting though it is under the surface of all of them.

Some of them ask questions like...what is your TI today? and the response is a number. I have no idea what ti stands for and that drives me a little batty. inside jokes. code words. bleh. The only other contact on her phone with that many messages between them? me....but that goes back a full month.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

thebadguy said:


> I don't know how I am going to address her EA.
> 
> I looked at her phone this morning. She left it at home. 202 messages still on the phone from the other guy in the past 2 weeks, i fully expect she has deleted any inappropriate messages and left the rest. None of them reek of flirting though it is under the surface of all of them.
> 
> Some of them ask questions like...what is your TI today? and the response is a number. I have no idea what ti stands for and that drives me a little batty. inside jokes. code words. bleh. The only other contact on her phone with that many messages between them? me....but that goes back a full month.


Until you get to the point where you are fed up enough to be "willing" to leave her; there's no advice that can help you. If you are determined to play the martyr, it's your life. 

No one is suggesting that you "feign" a D. You either do it, or she convinces you by her actions, not to. You say she won't try to stop you. If not, then you have to be ready to move on with your life. Threatening one and waffling would be the worst thing you could possibly do.

But being willing to end your marriage does not necessarily equate to ending it. You'll either find that your wife's behavior will change for the better, or you'll find someone else down the road - minus the living hell.


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2012)

He is conflicted because his wife is BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and vicious when she is angry, which seems to be often. He's afraid of what his children will experience when she has custody, what will happen when he files (he expects her to go for sole custody or limited "Visitation") and he's reluctant to start that process because once he opens up that can of worms, she will be The Enemy and there's no going back. It seems worse than what he's living with now. 

However, what tbg is living with now, is not a sustainable situation. She's having an EA, maybe a PA, she's cruel, unkind, mean to him in front of the kids... this is no kind of life. Is that about right, my friend?

"TI" probably means "Time in". and the number is what time she's arriving at the meeting point to do, whatever it is they do. Do you think?

Should you have to guess? It's awful.

You deserve better. So do your babies. 

-FH


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Sigh...the world is conspiring against me today. I wanted to post this as it's own thread but apparently TAM doesn't want me to start a new thread.  So I will reply to an old one.

...My wife and I seem to be approaching the 'end' of another cycle in our script that we follow repeatedly. I am tired. I am ready to cry just a bit. I can't say that I have documented our script but it goes something like this for the past 4 years...

She is hurt sad and angry. Unapproachable.

I give affection and am told she doesn't want that when she is expressing her hurt because it appears it is only because she is upset. So I give space.

She is more hurt that I don't see when she is done expressing her hurt and therefor is ready to receive affection, kind words, and to feel chosen.

I give affection and trigger the same response as before. I give space. This part of the cycle continues until she wants sex.

She invites affection. I give it. She accepts it. Happiness ensues for a few days.

Her desire is quenched. Hurt/anger return. I am informed that I am not doing enough to heal her and a day like today ensues.

So...last night...we have people over. go to bed late. I cuddle with her. We fall asleep.

Today, I leave for work before she and the kids are up. I text her my schedule. A little later I text her "I love you. "

Then I get what I know is the start of the beginning of a new cycle.

"So...When is it that I am supposed to be happy with being married to you? A week of sex and then a week of not and then one text with a smiley face? Is that supposed to make me happy in light of the past five years? Does a colon and a parenthesis make up for it all? I said something last week that it needed to be amped up and  is all I get?"

What am I asking in this post? I am not asking for the answer of what to do with my life.

How about this...If you had to respond to that text, what would your response be?

After some responses...I will post what mine was (I have already replied and had several responses between us since, all seeming to escalate the situation).


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

How about, "I am sorry if you took my text the wrong way. I don't expect a colon and a parenthesis to make up for what I have done. Let's talk about our expectations and communicate better".


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Just sounds like resentment has set in on her side. Not a good thing. And not sure how to get rid of it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Truthfully? After five years? 

This is what i would have sent back:
Thank you for the reconciliation chance, but it I no longer make you happy, I can't compete with your friend and I have decided to let you live your life. I will start the divorce process that way, you can blame me and find the relationship you are looking for.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Truthfully? After five years?
> 
> This is what i would have sent back:
> Thank you for the reconciliation chance, but it I no longer make you happy, I can't compete with your friend and I have decided to let you live your life. I will start the divorce process that way, you can blame me and find the relationship you are looking for.


Philly not sure if you are a BS, but from my personal experience and from many that I have read this issue never goes away completely, the BS can trigger and hold resentment for years, it is a ongoing work in progress. We have people here Bs/Ws whose problems started years (30) ago and *they* are here if that doesn't say this is something that can affect a marriage for a long time I don't know what does.

Is she dealing with this in a healthy way? it doesn't sound like it but I am not her and who knows exactly how much he does do or if he does it in the way she most needs it. I can piss on a fire to put it out and while it may seem like I am doing good really I am not.
Bs and Ws both have a decision to make stay or go, if he is unhappy with his situation then he can go, sorry but he started down this road with infidelity and long term issues can be a part of reconciliation.
A cheater already took a step out the door so if you can't deal with the consequences then don't let that door hit you in the A$$ on the way out.


-


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

love=pain said:


> Philly not sure if you are a BS, but from my personal experience and from many that I have read this issue never goes away completely, the BS can trigger and hold resentment for years, it is a ongoing work in progress.


 I am believing his story, until his wife appears to tell her side. Abuse, physical or mental, is not an out for resentment over a five year period. I'm still angry with my wife, a year and a half out, but I do not EVER threaten to hit, choke, spit, burn or destroy things. Yes, we fight, but I do not attempt to get my pound of flesh by humiliating and browbeating her in front of my children. 



> We have people here Bs/Ws whose problems started years (30) ago and *they* are here if that doesn't say this is something that can affect a marriage for a long time I don't know what does.


Abuse affects people just as long.



> Is she dealing with this in a healthy way? it doesn't sound like it but I am not her and who knows exactly how much he does do or if he does it in the way she most needs it. I can piss on a fire to put it out and while it may seem like I am doing good really I am not.


 I do not condone abuse. If he wasn't a cheater people would be telling him to call the cops. If he was a female Betrayed we would be SCREAMING and sending relentless private messages telling her to move out, take the kids, get a restraining order, find a shelter etc. Since he's a cheater, he is getting what he deserves? That's crap to me.



> Bs and Ws both have a decision to make stay or go, if he is unhappy with his situation then he can go, sorry but he started down this road with infidelity and long term issues can be a part of reconciliation.


 He sure did, but I do not condone abuse. Abuse IS NOT part of reconciliation.



> A cheater already took a step out the door so if you can't deal with the consequences then don't let that door hit you in the A$$ on the way out.
> 
> 
> -


Abuse is not a consequence for cheating in my book.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I am believing his story, until his wife appears to tell her side. Abuse, physical or mental, is not an out for resentment over a five year period. I'm still angry with my wife, a year and a half out, but I do not EVER threaten to hit, choke, spit, burn or destroy things. Yes, we fight, but I do not attempt to get my pound of flesh by humiliating and browbeating her in front of my children.
> 
> Abuse affects people just as long.
> 
> ...


Philly
As a BS I have never put my Ws through any of the stuff that badguy says, but every one is different in their reactions, not sure I would classify her behavior as abuse, unacceptable yes over the top you bet.
Are her actions helping the marriage or their reconciliation no but sorry his actions started it all, he did a greater disservice to their marriage. 
I could also say that a WS abuses the BS by their behavior, I didn't ask to have my self esteem shattered, my health, sleep and overall well being twisted up but I have had to endure it.

I don't think he should stay an be "abused" that is not right, but if I kick a dog I should be prepared to be bit, if the dog is able to treat me with kindness after my "abuse" towards it I would count myself lucky.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Truthfully? After five years?
> 
> This is what i would have sent back:
> Thank you for the reconciliation chance, but it I no longer make you happy, I can't compete with your friend and I have decided to let you live your life. I will start the divorce process that way, you can blame me and find the relationship you are looking for.



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Wait a minute, Isn't she, at the very least, having an EA right now?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

love=pain said:


> Philly
> reactions, not sure I would classify her behavior as abuse, unacceptable yes over the top you bet.


As I clearly stated, it is abuse to me. You NEVER have a right to put your hands on your spouse, in violence, especially for an act 5 years ago. We have men going to jail and court here for assault for hitting the other man. So, doing it REPEATEDLy to your spouse is abuse.

Your other false equivocation will lead to a derail. Just know we also disagree on arrestable abuse and an affair being equal abuse.

I'll leave you the last word.



soccermom2three said:


> Wait a minute, Isn't she, at the very least, having an EA right now?


Yep. So he is getting hit and she is rationalizing by saying "yours is worse."


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Okay - I am late to the party and it appears you are sincere so I will forego the blah blah blah on you had the affair so suck it up talk because I believe most covered that. I will tell you my ex had an emotional affair 2 years before having a physical affair and leaving the marriage. When I found out about it - I was devastated. The person who I trusted and believed in - not only hurt me but deliberately betrayed me. Really messes with someone's mind and I ill tell you it took me 2 full years (and still more) to get over it. Mine was not even physical. Here is what would go on with me emotionally - things would be going along fine and she would be doing everything right. Then I did not want to feel safe with her - so I would get angry at her because I did not want to feel safe and vulnerable around her....I did not want to get hurt again. It was my way of protecting myself. She would get extremely messed up because of it. I did not care I as not going to get hurt again. Also, out blue and, I mean randomly, I would get thoughts of her fawning over this guy...giggling laughing telling him intimate stuff, deliberately betraying me. I would just go off on her.......over time I began gradually began to trust her but I also wanted to hurt her back so I would do stuff to hurt her...be late, not care about what she said, little stuff we got back there though......only for her to have a PA a year later.....so idk what to tell you other than hang in....good luck.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> As I clearly stated, it is abuse to me. You NEVER have a right to put your hands on your spouse, in violence, especially for an act 5 years ago. We have men going to jail and court here for assault for hitting the other man. So, doing it REPEATEDLy to your spouse is abuse.
> 
> Your other false equivocation will lead to a derail. Just know we also disagree on arrestable abuse and an affair being equal abuse.
> 
> ...


Philly
I did not read where she hit him, you are right any time you get physical with your spouse for any reason it is wrong and abuse, violence should never be tolerated.
I still say he started this mess doesn't give her the right to hit him and he should get out of the marriage asap, but just as a cheater will say that the BS actions drove them to their bad behavior, the BS has that right as well doesn't make it right in either case.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

love=pain said:


> Philly
> I did not read where she hit him,


He did what abused people do, he initially downplayed it, became emotional when people said "oh well, you cheated" and the truth slipped out. 


> What does this mean? What is a generous amount of slack? What is simply unacceptable regardless of what I have done? *The hitting and the yelling in front of the kids...I have deemed those unacceptable.* But she still does them and tells me they are in bounds for her. Are they?


Male rape and abuse, is not widely known nor accepted in American society. You see the disconnect it in this thread. He is called a nagging wife, told he needs to stop being soft and "you get what you deserve." We rarely say this to a woman, especially if she was being abused. He shows many classic signs of an abused spouse, except he cheated. 

I am not absolving him of anything. I said he did wrong. He messed up. He deserves the bitterness, pain, anger and detachment his wife is showing. The physical and mental abuse is way out of bounds. Yes, even if she is BPD.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> Wait a minute, Isn't she, at the very least, having an EA right now?


Was / is. My gut tells me they had sex on a few occasions. I am having trouble trusting my gut (and even the particles of truth I have). I think the OM is mostly interested in keeping her quiet at this point but occasionally ramps up to sexting and possibly meeting up for sex. But I called her on the texting. She denied, mixed it together with the fallout from my affair and minimized her negative impact on us...and put the seed of doubt in my head that maybe I am projecting my behavior onto her (thus...I am less sure of my gut). She cut back on texting the guy by like...90% but is definitely not in a no contact state. We all play a co-ed sport together. Well...not all of us. His wife is not involved. And they occasionally still have spurts of texting. But she knows I am watching now, so if she wanted to hide it better, she could.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

My response btw "I want for you to be happy in our marriage. I do love you."

A long exchange of text messages came after that yesterday. Brief discussion last night. I slept on the couch. Left a loving and remorseful letter for her this morning. I just got off the phone. She wanted help crafting an email to her exhusband. I helped, fully knowing what would come after. When that was done, she gave an hour lecture on how I am just like her ex (which is a bad thing).

Short story...I am not doing everything she needs (per her). And I don't know how to (per me). 

She gets to have an affair. And I get to be her whipping post.

I am not seeing anyway to make this work. And I am feeling a lot of sadness for having put my kids in this situation.


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

Wow... 

If you are unwilling to stand up and say ENOUGH.... then you get what you deserve which is a batsh*t crazy cheating wife who is emotionally and physically abusing you and seeming to not be working towards R and is splashing her brand of crazy all over you and your kids. 

What she did to her ex husband's step kid to try and get her way to send her kid to private school is all you need to know about her character. 

Why would you want to stay married to this person? 

I'll let you in on a secret BadGuy. Life is very short. Sometimes sinking ships need to be left to sink while you swim like hell to save your own life. 

My answer to that text: (with credit to Conrad)

*"I'm sorry you feel that way"* Then stop engaging in CRAZY and go talk to your Lawyer to end your messed up excuse for a marriage. 

Everyone makes mistakes and you made a big one that may very well be unforgivable to her, but unless you are willing to walk away or hold her accountable for her own actions then nothing will ever change for you. 

Best of luck!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

As harsh as jimmys post was, I have to agree. Your cheating does not give her free reign to abuse or cheat on you!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> As harsh as jimmys post was, I have to agree. Your cheating does not give her free reign to abuse or cheat on you!


And I'll ask again.
Have you told his wife about this.
Do it today!


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