# What did I actually want from marriage? From kids?



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

It surprises me that this thread doesn't exist.

Is it because people assume that what they want 'goes without saying'?

Perhaps it would be insightful to have the un-said out in the open.

I know most people like to present themselves as morally upright and reasonable. But let's have the truth instead !


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Marriage - companionship, friendship, love, intimacy and affection

Children - I always wanted/dreamed of children and a big family. To continue family legacy and keep family name going. Also looking forward to being a grandfather (believe it or not)

Amongst many other things....


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

To be brutally honest , what I wanted was her companionship firstly, then secondly ,I felt that she could help bring stability and direction i my life, which she did.

I never really wanted to get married based on what I'd heard other people saying.

I never really wanted kids either, so I had planned to stay single and travel the globe Obviously, that plan didn't go too well...


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tricky questions Sandfly. Both wants and needs change over time.

I remember giving my husband a small framed photo of us, on our first Christmas as husband and wife. In it we were super dressed up for a NYE gala and I had jumped on his back piggy back style. We were both intoxicated enough to laugh at my antics by not too intoxicated to falls down. We were clearly having fun! I wrote on the card that this picture represented what I hoped our marriage would be like. Fun, going places; unexpected dealt with with ease and a modicum of grace.

We completely lost sight of all of that until the past year. Now if we still had healthy enough joints for me to once again jump on his back in surprise we'd be good to go.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Never actually thought that much about it. There are subjects that I examine down to the atomic level, but my motivations for getting married and getting my wife pregnant were primal urges at best?

Mrs. Conan passed the requirements to be my mate and I hers. I married her because it felt wrong to just live together and have kids. There was no social pressures, we just wanted to officially "own" each other with a public statement of wedlock and provide stability for our children.


----------



## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

First response is - I have no idea what I was thinking!! Or, did I think!? I mean - I was brought up in a normal (from my point of view) home with two loving parents and a brother - many aunts and uncles and awesome grandparents who spoiled me. So - I guess I just followed the crowd. 

Now, I did however consider not having kids and we actually waited for four years. But, the way I look at life (I do believe it is a gift from God) my thought process lead to me to believe that we either needed to have kids or involve ourselves with something just as time consuming such as some type of church ministry. I would not spend my life with no purpose except for creating wealth or the alternative of just living to have fun - to me that is a waste of life. Just my opinion. So, we decided to invest ourselves in our children and have done everything possible to bring them up so that they will have the same choices that I had as to how to use the gift of life that God has given them.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Interesting topic!

From my view marriage and it's meaning has changed by the stage I am in life.

When I married it was for life and the emphasis was on family and all things surrounding it. In that marriage my idea of perfect was a vision of being old and being surrounded with kids and grand kids at some event like thanksgiving dinner. That dream was killed in one action of her affair.

So now single I wonder sometimes if I would ever get married again and what that would look like. If I did it would totally different. Marriage now to me would have nothing to do with family at all. It would be all about having a partner in life to share in adventures, travel, and companionship.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

DoF said:


> Marriage - companionship, friendship, love, intimacy and affection
> 
> Children - I always wanted/dreamed of children and a big family. To continue family legacy and keep family name going. Also looking forward to being a grandfather (believe it or not)
> 
> Amongst many other things....


You can have all of those things without marriage.


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Tricky questions Sandfly. Both wants and needs change over time.
> 
> I remember giving my husband a small framed photo of us, on our first Christmas as husband and wife. In it we were super dressed up for a NYE gala and I had jumped on his back piggy back style. We were both intoxicated enough to laugh at my antics by not too intoxicated to falls down. We were clearly having fun! I wrote on the card that this picture represented what I hoped our marriage would be like. Fun, going places; unexpected dealt with with ease and a modicum of grace.
> 
> We completely lost sight of all of that until the past year. Now if we still had healthy enough joints for me to once again jump on his back in surprise we'd be good to go.


You come across as very young at heart. Maybe robot legs will come on the market soon, and then there'll be no stopping you!


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I married her because it felt wrong to just live together and have kids. There was no social pressures, we just wanted to officially "own" each other with a public statement of wedlock and provide stability for our children.


A great point Conan - precisely if kids appeared would I feel morally obliged to marry, and also, that it had a real purpose.


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Interesting topic!
> 
> From my view marriage and it's meaning has changed by the stage I am in life.
> 
> ...


It's tough that after so long, the dream you really wanted became impossible.

You basically miss the loyal companion, don't you. That's in the end, what you would value now.

Do you see any prospects at the moment, or is it bleak?


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

lenzi said:


> You can have all of those things without marriage.


Is that what you have?


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Never actually thought that much about it. There are subjects that I examine down to the atomic level, but my motivations for getting married and getting my wife pregnant were primal urges at best?
> 
> Mrs. Conan passed the requirements to be my mate and I hers. I married her because it felt wrong to just live together and have kids. There was no social pressures, we just wanted to officially "own" each other with a public statement of wedlock and provide stability for our children.


I'm similar. I guess i followed the crowd to an extent. I wasn't looking for someone to make me happy, I was already that, but just a continuation of that happiness.

Being divorced, I now feel that perhaps I should have given it more thought.


----------



## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

southbound said:


> I wasn't looking for someone to make me happy, I was already that, but just a continuation of that happiness.


I guess this. 

Maybe a bit naive but I wanted to continue to be with her and saw marriage as a way to guarantee that. I knew splitting would still be possible but require much thought, never really gave infidelity much thought. (20+ years and the happiness still continues.)

No kids. Always thought we would have them because it's what married people do, but we liked things the way they were sans children.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

lenzi said:


> You can have all of those things without marriage.


And?


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

southbound said:


> I guess i followed the crowd to an extent.
> 
> Being divorced, I now feel that perhaps I should have given it more thought.





CharlieParker said:


> I wanted to continue to be with her and saw marriage as a way to guarantee that.


This is something I noticed, that people seem to see it as a logical progression from a happy relationship. This is the Dr. Pepper approach to planning i.e.:

"What's the worst that could happen?" 

Personally, I have been flattered to have been pestered for marriage in the past, but I had a gut feeling that if I married, it would possibly lead to complacency on her part, and hard work on mine.

It was also informed by the submissive attitudes of married men whom I once thought of as unconquerable. As did CM, I think:



Caribbean Man said:


> I never really wanted to get married based on what I'd heard other people saying.


Did anyone get married precisely because they thought they might otherwise lose someone?


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sandfly said:


> It's tough that after so long, the dream you really wanted became impossible.
> 
> You basically miss the loyal companion, don't you. That's in the end, what you would value now.
> 
> Do you see any prospects at the moment, or is it bleak?


Well have been in a relationship with a terrific woman a year now. Going to live together this summer. No clue if I will get married. Any thoughts of that are least couple years off. But happy this is going so well right now


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

DoF said:


> Marriage - companionship, friendship, love, intimacy and affection
> 
> Children - I always wanted/dreamed of children and a big family. To continue family legacy and keep family name going. Also looking forward to being a grandfather (believe it or not)
> 
> Amongst many other things....


This is such a very noble post.....thank you for sharing


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Sandfly said:


> This is something I noticed, that people seem to see it as a logical progression from a happy relationship. This is the Dr. Pepper approach to planning i.e.:
> 
> "What's the worst that could happen?"
> 
> ...



Yes...we did. I knew after 2 yrs. I would never ever meet a more selfless man.... We met at the age of 15 in a boring band class.....:sleeping: we dated until we were 21...Dh proposed...and I was so thrilled...we were so young...19 and 18....I knew his character and virility.....I adored him then and now....it has been very rough..we did get pregnant before we married......he is the youngest of 5 alpha males....I got the best one......he makes me laugh and smile...he always wants to see me happy....he sacrifices so much for me and our children....he treats me like a queen. I sometimes feel so inferior to him..


----------



## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

That's a good question, sandfly. 

I think from marriage I wanted companionship. 

Then came kids.....

I love kids. But I don't think, at the start, I really knew what that meant. 

I figured I'd change some diapers, and then we would bond playing Xbox or something together...

Then comes bills for soccer....and baseball...and dance...and piano...the list goes on and on....

Then....every time we go out....crap! I gotta go poop! So your running around trying to find a bathroom all the time....

Then comes more bills....I gotta work. My kids want to play Lego.

They want to go outside. I'm mentally exhausted.

I want to take a crap in peace when I can.....they are knocking on the door wanting to show you how cool thier craft is they just made....


I'm not sure I expected any of that stuff....

But....when your kid turns seven...and you get him his first bb gun..

He comes in...ejects the clip...checks the barrel....checks the safety...puts the clip in a seperate cabinet....just like you taught him....

Well...you know at least some of your wisdom is getting through....

Then, you get called aside to make a bed and pillow out of cardboard boxes and sheets....and he tucks his bb gun in for the night....complete with a blanket....

Ahhhhh . The mind of a child. That's what gets me. It's completely an awesome experience....

I'm not sure I'd trade it for the world......


----------



## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I never planned on getting married. I love kids so I was going to be a teacher, Girl Scout leader, and best aunt ever.

Meeting my husband opened my eyes to the fact that not all men are self centered jerks looking for a servant. So, now I have a husband to share my life with.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I feel like I fell into the whole thing. Honestly, I thought it was a good deal for me. You said to be honest, right, Sandfly? 

I had no direction in life and could have easily fallen into promiscuity. I just had no hope inside. I was so adrift. 

And then I met dh and he gave me stability and a structure.

He wanted a big church wedding, but I didn't care about that. I just wanted the legal and financial protection. I didn't really believe in religion, anyway, and I knew I didn't want to raise the kids in a church. The legal certificate was enough for me. And I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a wedding.

I think I have gotten way more out of marriage, and just being with dh, than I ever expected or ever dreamed it could give. My man just cannot be exhausted. He always has more love to give, no matter how frustrated I get and what mean words I say, or how I say them. 

He doesn't make me deal with things all by myself. I feel like he is always willing to listen, maybe not at that exact moment, because maybe he is working, but when he can, he will. And even when we don't agree, I think what I say still affects his thinking. He ponders what I say. He respects me.

Basically, I have been really lucky. I don't understand all this limit setting men want to do. Why not just have open arms with your wife? Why not just commit to being the man she needs you to be? Why not just seek to understand, and then to be understood? Why not commit to being a man of integrity, not convenience? 

Why not?


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

What comes to my mind is looking, when I was a child, at some of my dad's first cousins who were not married. They were certainly free from any spouse or any kids, but I thought it was boring. The life was too predictable, too set.

What I actually wanted from marriage, besides companionship, was a sense of adventure, building something great with another human being not part of my family.

Going into it, I did not know what to expect. I knew what I wanted but I did not know how my wife would react.

I wanted something new and exciting and I got it.

I did not want my parents marriage. It seems theirs never changed. I wanted change. I did not want to sit at the same spot at the dinner table all my life.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Sandfly said:


> It surprises me that this thread doesn't exist.
> 
> Is it because people assume that what they want 'goes without saying'?
> 
> ...


Good question. Physical attraction and sex are nice, but ultimately, I wanted good company and sparkling conversation. --Which is why I'm still married, I guess.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

We had been together for 12 years before we got married.

I don't really know why we did it in the end. No practical reason anyway I know I was consumed with wanting to be his wife, to be owned by him and own him in return.

I also knew that once he'd made the decision, he'd never go back. He would never break a promise to me. So I need to make sure he never regrets it.


----------



## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> It surprises me that this thread doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a journal in LTSiM and parenting section dedicated to the topic. To answer the question would involve too many post.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I think initially I saw that I would be happy having her in my life as a partner.

She made the idea of marriage appealing to me. We were just friends for about five years before , and knew each other to a certain extent. But as weird as this might sound ,we never had any big plans . 
It was like I had an epiphany , she was the " messiah " and I decided to follow.

My wife was the one who put it across to me bluntly that she was not interested in an intimate relationship with me if it didn't lead to marriage. 
Before that , I wasn't thinking of marriage , and it was as if she reached inside my mind a flipped that switch.

In hindsight , I think that is what made me determined to work through our problems in the early stages.

But for sure, I'm not disappointed in any way and I still like the idea of marriage.
I got from marriage exactly what I wanted , happiness.

For me personally , it was a worthwhile investment , excellent dividends.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

At the time, I wanted to build a family together and I was very happy to have found someone whom I loved and we seemed to look out for each other and be happy to compromise for each other.

I was probably more far anxious to have someone in a commited realtionship than I realised. Being away from the BS of the single list was appealing.

In terms of sex, I wanted enough to equate to intimacy. I wanted kids and I wanted mutual support. There was no one thing that I was not prepared to forego if circumstances were against was. What I did not make clear to my wife was that I would still want the same things once we were married (though I did tell her) and that I was not prepared to sacrifice all these things.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

What happened, Mr. the Other? It's a sexless marriage now?


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

jld said:


> What happened, Mr. the Other? It's a sexless marriage now?


No, not sexless. Just rare, in part because of medication, but it became rare before that. I think the main shock was life was harder than she expected and things were dropped when reality hit.


----------



## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

My girlfriend at the time wanted to get married, move in together, raise a family...just like in all the fairy tales, romance novels, and chick flicks...plus all her friends were doing it

She never told me this, but I knew if I didnt marry her, she would move on

I loved her, didnt want to lose her...convinced myself it would be no different than what we currently were,,,phuking idiot i was

we have been officially divorced for a week or 2...after her multiple affairs..

I would rather be gang raped in a jamaican prison by a group of Avatar-sized men than ever ever marry again...i dont regret the first time as I have two children from it, but will never even consider it again


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

From marriage - not much. Even in our first 25 good years it was never about "the marriage". Marriage in my view is not Gestalt, the sum of the parts is greater than the value of the marriage. 

From kids - an excellent opportunity to watch them grow, do fun stuff with them, and build a great relationship with them. I wanted them to succeed in school and in real life. They are.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

What did i want from marriage?

I was a happy bachelor for most of my life. Never seriously thought about or wanted to get married or even a gf. I knew from my younger days how much work and pain in the @ss it was.

Fast forward 20 years. I suddenly felt the longings for a woman.
Fell in love. That feeling of loving and being loved is why i got married.

One time, me and my ex were together at our favorite tavern place where we would be in our own little world. When my ex took a bathroom break, I just sat there by myself in my own thoughts.
Then a much younger man came up to me, leaned over and whispered to me. There was a bit of anger in his voice.
He said "you lucky bastard! I'd give ANYTHING to have a woman look at me like she was looking at you! You better not blow it!"
Then he left. 

I was a bit stunned. What the @Uck did I do to deserve that?
I was just sitting there.

But as the weeks and months passed by, I realized how damn lucky I was. 

I lost that. she eventually died. I went through a few more relationships, but never quite found that special love like that until I met my current wife.

Now, I'm that lucky bastard again.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I wanted love, romance, sex, passion. I wanted to know that I belonged to one man with my heart, my body, my mind, my soul, and I wanted to know that that same one man also belonged to me. I wanted a companion, a best friend, to go through life with. To have fun, experiences, to have kids, to travel.


----------



## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

You're asking me to go back several decades, so take my answer with a grain of salt (and lb of pepper). She had kids to start with, so my want was mostly companionship and a sense of being part of a family. Doing the bar & dating thing didn't provide any sense of accomplishment or progress.

From marriage, I wanted a sense of security that comes with commitment. That I had someone who would stick by me no matter what. When we've had issues, the 1st option is not cut and run.

From the kids, I think I wanted to be looked up to, admired, respected. Hasn't always worked out that way and I never thought about the other side of that coin - that they'd pick up and often magnify my bad habits, or rebel.

Really, the first or prerequisite question is what do you want out of life. I married later in life (early 30's). I think one of the reoccurring themes I read here is problems people have because they essentially marry before they really know what they want in life.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

First marriage I was young and married the girl who took my virginity. She cheated, so that one ended. 

Second marriage I thought what the hell, she's fun, we have things in common. But I didn't want children. After over a decade of no sex, and her falling in love with another woman, I bowed out. 

This one I thought was THE marriage. Heck, she cheated on me two weeks after taking my ring. 

What did I want out of these? To spend time with a good friend. To have sex, customized to our liking. To build something that we could look back on in our old age. Not so much a legacy (I'm not that impressed with myself!), but something our friends and family would be able to look at and give a thumbs up. 

Nowadays, we're in R and trying. After two long term marriages (10 and 20 years) with undesirable outcomes and this one with an undesirable outset, maybe this one we're doing the other way around. Get the sh!t out of the way up front and build something from the ashes. Most folks wouldn't think this way, and I never would have before. But life is strange. 

I thought maybe I'd be a great Grampa. I loved mine, and admired them as a kid. Still do today, even though they're gone. Our D24 (W's only child from her first marriage) is bi, currently in a lesbian relationship that looks pretty solid, so I'm not going to hold my breath for grandkids. I love D; she's smart as hell, although lazy and entitled so at this point I don't expect much from her... They don't have the resources to adopt, and the way they're going, that wouldn't be any time soon. 

Life is strange.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I am so happy you found love a second time "therosenberg"....

your username sounds so...celebrityish...I love it..:smthumbup:


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Zazil...sounds like a tropical super model name!!! So your a tropical celebrity model!!!!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What did I want from marriage? I never wanted to get married!
What did I want from kids? I never wanted any kids!

It just slammed me in the face once the baby bells rang and I've been here ever since! Except the married part - getting divorce... as for my daughter - she's the BEST thing that has ever happened - only after she was born though, before that I was in a state of 24/7 panic!


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

This one is sooo loaded. Your expectations grade your relationship. I used to want a soul mate....deep intense connection with the devotion and trust that goes with that. I don't feel any desire to be married again, but having been through ten years of hell, I think I'd be happy just to look forward to coming home and seeing the person. Maybe in a year or two the bar will be a bit higher lol


----------



## MYM1430 (Nov 7, 2011)

What I wanted from marriage (at age 24) was someone to snuggle up into bed with and undress and touch.

I had never considered my motives before this post. But, honestly, this is all there was at the beginning. 

It sounds like I never grew up and convinced my wife to marry the emotional equivalent of a 12 year old boy.

Pathetic.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MYM1430 said:


> What I wanted from marriage (at age 24) was someone to snuggle up into bed with and undress and touch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't feel bad. I'm 54 going on 18. You'd think 30 years in corporate America, marriage, kids, 10 years of college would hammer some maturity in my head....

No regrets. My grandfather did it to age 80, 7 kids, two wars, and a dozen failed businesses. He's revered by all the family.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

DoF said:


> *Marriage - companionship, friendship, love, intimacy and affection
> 
> Children - I always wanted/dreamed of children and a big family. To continue family legacy and keep family name going*. Also looking forward to being a grandfather (believe it or not)
> 
> Amongst many other things....


Are you my husband DoF?? He would say every one of those....

He was very open to the Big family too...I didn't have the best family of my own, always felt kind of alone , if I didn't have good friends growing up... It would have been pretty sad...

I hated being an only child.. I used to envy my friends with larger families.. they seemed to have so much Fun, sure it was loud & boisterous, but I LOVED it...It energized me...I felt a part of that at my best friends house growing up...

I knew in my teens what I deeply wanted ... never thought I would meet him so young though.. I was just 15... I am not a follower.. I was never influenced by peer pressure.. and I like to argue (so my H tells me).. so going with the flow when my heart was not in it.. that simply would never be ME..I'm too contrary for that. 

I wanted to find REAL LOVE (a big romantic here -but with my feet on the ground -if I may add)... a good man, stable minded, honest & true with a good work ethic.....I wanted to get married...live in the country.. barefoot and pregnant (this does not offend me in the least ).... 

I wanted to have our children younger so we could grow with them, I envisioned many family vacations/ togetherness.... memories that would last a lifetime...build a family legacy...and do it all with my Best friend by my side..

I wanted to provide a stable loving home for our children (it's not something I had so much).... I felt very strongly on these things ...Many men would have been a deal breaker for me -being a father had to be ON that list...

Mine told me early on.. so long as I would take care of them I could have as many as I wanted (what man says this to a woman!!)...He knew I would never push for more than we could afford as I despise debt, Mrs Frugality here. 

He honored his promise as I honored mine ...in never whining they were too much work or expecting him to get up in the middle of the night, changing diapers/ bottles .. all of it.. I counted it all JOY .. Yes, I did want the american dream one might say... that was my desired Happiness.. 25 yrs into our marriage, 6 kids later... no regrets. Would do it all over again ...


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Who cares what you wanted in the past?

What do you want now?

What are you willing to do to get it?


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

What....my boy Sandfly got banned  Hope he comes back.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> What....my boy Sandfly got banned  Hope he comes back.



There were some fireworks over in the Politics & Religion board a few days ago


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

At the primal level, marriage/partnership and kids is basic tribal survival. I've seen this in play around the world. Would you really trust the government to take care of you in old age, or to provide the care your child, or disabled brother or sister, aunt or uncle need? In some societies that are particularly small and there isn't a lot of financial gain needed or to be had from taking advantage of the weak, the need for tribal relationship is lowered. Such as in the Scandinavian countries. IN other places, even in the US, particularly in the US, you better have a tribe if you want to survive with any human decency. I have been in the hospital long term, both as a patient and as a provider. As a patient without a relative to look out for me, life was brutal. Fortunately I got little shreds of human decency from my roommate's family and some odd detachment that came in to train at the hospital (military, one of the best by the way.) As a caregiver, I hate to think of what could have happened to my friend or lowered outcome if I hadn't been there at times. People in other countries understand this, you need to have a family to take care of you and to bond together. Taken to the extreme it can be a bit paranoid and excessive but even that's understandable. In the US, we're somehow brought up or educated to think that we are "one nation, under God." Haha, if only this were true. Then came the Civil War. OK then.

Don't fool yourself. You want a family, aka tribe for survival odds. People who have strong family ties outside of marriage and partnership, that is to their biological families, tend not to just jump at the first opportunity to get married. They don't need to, so they don't. Some people call this emotional health. I call it evolution, plain and simple. People who feel secure enough, don't feel the need to feel more secure. The return for risk adheres to the law of diminishing returns. 

For me, I'm happy if I find someone to partner up with. But it's not necessary. In some respects as a woman I'd be better off remaining single and trusting my kids to take care of me when I'm in old age vs. someone I haven't met yet who is a fully formed adult with an unknown history. My kids have proven themselves to be loyal, loving and trustworthy. Someone else, well, who knows. As one gets older, tribal affiliations count for a lot. Unless you decide you're scr*ewed anyhow, going to die, and who cares, you're just do whatever makes you happy in the short run. And, there are plenty of people like that. But there are no bargains. Eventually people have to show their cards. It's not always pretty.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Caribbean,
You are a great example of someone who truly co-created symbiosis in your marriage. You have both brought out the best in each other. 





Caribbean Man said:


> To be brutally honest , what I wanted was her companionship firstly, then secondly ,I felt that she could help bring stability and direction i my life, which she did.
> 
> I never really wanted to get married based on what I'd heard other people saying.
> 
> I never really wanted kids either, so I had planned to stay single and travel the globe Obviously, that plan didn't go too well...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Let's not go too easy on the Scandinavians. 

The Swedes forced sterilization on many women in an ill conceived effort to improve their gene pool......

The Knife in the Closet: European nations begin to confront their eugenic pasts | Population Research Institute



QUOTE=Homemaker_Numero_Uno;8379921]At the primal level, marriage/partnership and kids is basic tribal survival. I've seen this in play around the world. Would you really trust the government to take care of you in old age, or to provide the care your child, or disabled brother or sister, aunt or uncle need? In some societies that are particularly small and there isn't a lot of financial gain needed or to be had from taking advantage of the weak, the need for tribal relationship is lowered. Such as in the Scandinavian countries. IN other places, even in the US, particularly in the US, you better have a tribe if you want to survive with any human decency. I have been in the hospital long term, both as a patient and as a provider. As a patient without a relative to look out for me, life was brutal. Fortunately I got little shreds of human decency from my roommate's family and some odd detachment that came in to train at the hospital (military, one of the best by the way.) As a caregiver, I hate to think of what could have happened to my friend or lowered outcome if I hadn't been there at times. People in other countries understand this, you need to have a family to take care of you and to bond together. Taken to the extreme it can be a bit paranoid and excessive but even that's understandable. In the US, we're somehow brought up or educated to think that we are "one nation, under God." Haha, if only this were true. Then came the Civil War. OK then.

Don't fool yourself. You want a family, aka tribe for survival odds. People who have strong family ties outside of marriage and partnership, that is to their biological families, tend not to just jump at the first opportunity to get married. They don't need to, so they don't. Some people call this emotional health. I call it evolution, plain and simple. People who feel secure enough, don't feel the need to feel more secure. The return for risk adheres to the law of diminishing returns. 

For me, I'm happy if I find someone to partner up with. But it's not necessary. In some respects as a woman I'd be better off remaining single and trusting my kids to take care of me when I'm in old age vs. someone I haven't met yet who is a fully formed adult with an unknown history. My kids have proven themselves to be loyal, loving and trustworthy. Someone else, well, who knows. As one gets older, tribal affiliations count for a lot. Unless you decide you're scr*ewed anyhow, going to die, and who cares, you're just do whatever makes you happy in the short run. And, there are plenty of people like that. But there are no bargains. Eventually people have to show their cards. It's not always pretty.[/QUOTE]


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

john117 said:


> There were some fireworks over in the Politics & Religion board a few days ago


Was Sandfly perma-banned?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

He's still showing up as banned. A few other people have been restored after a while but have not returned to the boards.


----------

