# What Makes A Good Marriage Counselor



## garybarnes (Sep 22, 2010)

Hello,

My wife and I are separated for several months now. We started seeing a counselor soon and I am wondering if it is appropriate to go this long (almost 2 months now) without any real therapy plans or identification of problems. 

When I asked about identifying what the actual problems are and taking action on them by writing them down and getting a plan, the therapist seemed set back and then said it would be great if I brought in a pencil and paper. He seems to be writing a lot on his pad but never sharing anything.

The only therapy suggested so far is deep breathing. We were also each told to read a book as an assignment in the most recent session. After looking up the author of my book, and checking credentials, I see that he started out as a religious minister and has no real therapy education and he is just a great talker and has written some motivational books. After reading some of the book, it seems like a convoluted mishmash of warm and fuzzy feel-good nothing that you can ever put your finger on.

Are we supposed to try to figure out the message of the book? 

I have an undergrad degree in psychology and besides knowing most of the base theories (however outdated they are now) I have written multiple books myself (not on psyc topics), so I know a good (and bad) book when I see one, based on several things. I am just getting somewhat skeptical about our "counselor."

Can anyone give advice on what makes a good marriage counselor or on some of the best things to do to heal a marriage. This guy is long on listening and short on anything else.

Sorry, but I am getting disillusioned.


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## lbell629 (May 10, 2010)

I guess it's up to you what you think make a good counselor. They aren't going to fix your marriage. Only you and your wife can do that. They can just help you navigate and communicate and give you the tools to fix things yourself. Maybe your counselor doesn't feel like you've gotten to the deep issues that need to be fixed yet - I don't know. But if you're not comfortable with your counselor, seek out a new one. What does your wife think?


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## garybarnes (Sep 22, 2010)

I don't know for sure. She says that she agrees, but I think she likes him since he is sort of aware that she has the insurance through her work, so he seems to be catering to her side. But I can't say that for sure either. I only know that we have definitely identified several issues and nothing is happening. He seems to be just billing us for the hours. So I guess I will look around for another counselor. There is a lot of benefit in just having a listener, but that seems to be wearing thin. We really need some treatment actions in my opinion so we feel like we are working towards something. 

I did call another counselor today and he said that his standard structure is to have a few sessions and then propose a definite treatment program. So at least he goes somewhere with his clients instead of what seems like never never land.

I dont know if this is the right forum for this questions. seems like a lot of the people here are sort of in unhappy and unstable situations and if they knew what makes good therapy, they would probably not be searching around here or lurking around anymore. Thought Id give it a try. I do agree with you. it is in the eye of the beholder. Thanks


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

For me the first thing for a counsellor to do is to identify if both spouses are 100% committed to creating a long and happy marriage. Without that commitment nothing will work.

The second thing to identify is the good things both spouses recognise in the marriage.

The third thing for the counsellor is to identify the problems both spouses have with the marriage.

I think counsellors should also express what they believe is the basis of a long and happy marriage and determine if the spouses agree with their “model marriage”. There must be an end game in mind at the outset of the counselling otherwise it’s just pouring money down the drain and wasting time and effort.

Then the counsellor can go on and be the catalyst to help both spouses learn to change their values, beliefs and behaviour so they can work together on being the creators of a long and happy marriage.

I went to see a counsellor once, by myself as my wife wouldn’t go. I’d already identified my problems and he wrote these down. He told me he usually spends quite some time on problem identification. He said the next step would be for my wife to talk with his wife and then we’d have a session, the two of us with the two of them. But the counsellor looked depressed to me, so I didn’t go back.

I think often times we need a coach, not so much a counsellor. Bit like if we have a bad tennis serve. We can read all the tennis books we like but there’s nothing like having a good coach to demonstrate the way to a good serve after watching us in action for a while.

I think a lot of problems in a marriage are due to bad communication and misunderstanding. Maybe a communication coach will be better for you.

You know about psychology. Psychologists tend to look back in time to understand why a person is like they've become. Counsellors are typically similar to psychologists in this way.

Coaches on the other hand tend to look at the situation as it is now and help the person/couple move forward to where they want to be.

Bob


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

lbell629 said:


> I guess it's up to you what you think make a good counselor. They aren't going to fix your marriage. Only you and your wife can do that. They can just help you navigate and communicate and give you the tools to fix things yourself.


:iagree:

You BOTH need to be comfortable with the therapist.
Hubby and I hit the jackpot, with the first therapist we tried. The first thing she asked was if we both wanted to save our marriage. She is very easy to talk to, seems to ask the questions that get US talking to her, and each other. We have identified many "issues" over and beyond the one that sent us there. She is helping us get past the main issue, and really work on going forward. We have been going for about 4 months, now, and really do not see a definite end date. Not because we are not making progress, but because she is helping us to see the things that we each need to work on. The positiveness at the end of each session is priceless. Our goals are becoming more clear. We are getting tools to recognize problems, and to deal with them.

There cannot be a timeframe set on saving a marriage. I am finding that this is something we will be continually working on, "til death do us part", with or without a therapist.


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## garybarnes (Sep 22, 2010)

Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.

Here is something everyone should be warned about:
In checking around, I have learned that if insurance is used, the counselor must then file a formal "diagnosis" on the individual and that individual is then formally classified as being "mentally ill"--forever.

This must then be reported on all applications. For example, life insurance, jobs. If you fail to check the box, then your beneficiary may not be able to collect, or you may be turned down since mental illness is associated with suicidal, etc. If you check the box, you may not be considered for the next round of job interviews, no questions asked, as is the case when there is a large field of applicants.

So this is a caveat with using insurance, and ETHICALLY, the counselor / therapist should discuss this with you because I think a lot of people who need marriage counseling my want to pay cash after finding this out. This type of label is a bit severe for the types of problems most couples are navigating. 

The person who has been "counseling" us never bothered to warn us (I guess due to greed since he obviously felt he might lose a client), so now we are marked forever in the public record.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

Did you actually see it on your record? That seems bizarre! May I ask where you got the info?

Wow...I just found this:"Both Dr. Harley and Anne Marlantes, MA, who counsels families, add that if the insurance pays for it because of a mental disorder, the diagnosis of the disorder would remain on your medical record, which may make it difficult to qualify for certain jobs and life insurance later.

Read more: Is Marriage Counseling Covered by Health Insurance? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_5814967_marriage-counseling-covered-health-insurance_.html#ixzz10OTVacqu

Better check with the insurance companies, for sure!


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## sadsoul (Aug 10, 2010)

My wife and I go to the same therapist. We started as a couple and now go on separate visits. My therapist pretty much keyed on what AFEH said. The sad thing is that my wife said she was there to prepare me for divorce. That sucked.

Now that we go separate from each other I thought that I may no longer need therapy. I went to try to save my marriage as a goal at first. Didn't know why I should go by myself. I decided to go because I felt like the lady knew what she was talking about. She also made me feel better after each visit. 

I continue to go and can't get enough of it. I come in and hit her up with the hard questions and she gives me the answers. I don't always agree with her and sometimes she doesn't have a answer to the questions I ask. Its ok though because she is willing to listen unconditionally.


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## sadsoul (Aug 10, 2010)

My insurance is like garybarnes. It does not cover marriage counseling. Since we use my insurance, I had to be diagnosed with a issue to get coverage. My therapist made this clear before we had the first visit. We even discussed my diagnoses. It sucks to be diagnosed with something but oh well. My diagnoses is mild and shouldn't be a issue in future(I HOPE). My copay is $8. A lot better than paying $80 for a 45min session.


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## garybarnes (Sep 22, 2010)

I think there are a lot of alligators in the marriage-counseling pond.

My first counselor was a joke. After talking to many potential "counselors" to replace him I have concluded that unless you take some time to educate yourself, it is basically a crapshoot trying to get with a good counselor. 

They will take your money while your problem drags on. They may even perpetuate it. I was unfortunate to get a real idiot to start out and this "counselor" was actually making things worse by perpetuating the “blame game” that I think often exists in these situations. 

Here is some advice for finding a good counselor and avoiding alligators:

- Interview them with at least the following questions to start:
1) _What is your basic process for marriage counseling?_
You are looking for someone who first of all _has a process_. Of course the process has to be flexible because all situations are different, but I found that many of those I interviewed were sort of lost when asked this question (some were lost with almost every question!). Most had no process at all. Only 2 had a definite process. Not only are you finding out if they have a process, you are establishing that you expect some type of organization and are not just looking for a listener.

2) _What is your educational background and what experience do you have in this field?_ Most will say they have some degree a long time ago and then will say they have many years of experience. Sure, experience plays a bigger role, but you want to look for some type of advanced degree in psychology (nursing psychology is fine) since it indicates that they were focused enough to accomplish the goal of finishing all the requirements. Someone who has a slap-together education and a lot of experience will likely be giving you slap-together service. Here is a link to the credential acronyms: 
Therapy Center | Credentials

Note that these credentials are a swamp in themselves. This complexity and lack of standardization is also a warning sign about the entire field of "counseling." Everyone has a credential, but your interview questions are really what counts.

3) _Do you take insurance and how does the entire billing process work?_ In their answer, if they do not include the fact that they will be putting a formal diagnosis in the public records on you, and IN PARTICULAR IF THEY DO NOT TELL YOU THE ADVERSE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS, then stay away from this alligator. They are very bad news since they are after your money and care little about you or your situation and will likely perpetuate your problems to get more money. 

- How the interview goes will be a good indication of how the sessions will go. During the conversation, note if the person LISTENS or spends all their time TALKING. One person talked so much about her political views of the medical insurance system that I could not get a word in edgewise. If this happens, it is likely something similar will happen in the office. You will be paying hundreds to listen to an alligator yap about their own problems indirectly. 

- Look for lack of conviction. I had one “counselor” who became so uncertain I could feel it through the phone line. By the time I got to question 3, he interjected that he had to warn me that he was booked up with other clients for 5 months, but maybe there would be an opening. In other words, get lost. I was already astonished by the conversation and believed that he had some psychological problems of his own. This, by the way, was why I discontinued my psychology education after getting my BA—most of the PSYC professors seemed so screwed up that I was literally scared away from the profession! Anyway, my questions seemed to scare this alligator away. I suppose that clients who don’t ask questions are far more lucrative.

But also, the field of psychology seems to be brimming with mentally ill therapists who are hiding behind the credential of being an "expert" in mental illness (I believe they even have a word for this, ironically). 

Usually, a simple conversation will flush these alligators out.


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## garybarnes (Sep 22, 2010)

SadSoul: You sound like you are a marriage counselor lurking in disguise, around this forum or paid by the Marriage Counselor Consortium. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind, other than a marriage counselor, being ecstatic about life-long counseling sessions. Really, quit bothering these good people here. They have a hard enough time as it is.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

garybarnes said:


> SadSoul: You sound like you are a marriage counselor lurking in disguise, around this forum or paid by the Marriage Counselor Consortium. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind, other than a marriage counselor, being ecstatic about life-long counseling sessions. Really, quit bothering these good people here. They have a hard enough time as it is.


You're looking for "fault".


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## sadsoul (Aug 10, 2010)

garybarnes said:


> SadSoul: You sound like you are a marriage counselor lurking in disguise, around this forum or paid by the Marriage Counselor Consortium. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind, other than a marriage counselor, being ecstatic about life-long counseling sessions. Really, quit bothering these good people here. They have a hard enough time as it is.


Im just a sad husband who found this site after my wife left me. I do enjoy going to my therapist. I don't know why. She makes me feel better after I go. If I had a bad experience I would get on here and post it. 

I never said in my post that I plan on going to life-long counseling sessions. My wife left me about a month and 2 weeks ago. When your wife walks out on you and will not express why she is leaving other than she is unhappy, it leaves you pretty confused. My therapist is a female and is helping cope through my separation. If my wife files for divorce or tells me strait up that she is with another man, i'll likely move on and eventually quit going to counceling. 

If you are interested in my separation with my wife, here is the link:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/15749-wife-moved-out-yesterday.html


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

sadsoul said:


> Im just a sad husband who found this site after my wife left me. I do enjoy going to my therapist. I don't know why. She makes me feel better after I go. If I had a bad experience I would get on here and post it.
> 
> I never said in my post that I plan on going to life-long counseling sessions. My wife left me about a month and 2 weeks ago. When your wife walks out on you and will not express why she is leaving other than she is unhappy, it leaves you pretty confused. My therapist is a female and is helping cope through my separation. If my wife files for divorce or tells me strait up that she is with another man, i'll likely move on and eventually quit going to counceling.
> 
> ...


Well and nicely said sadsoul. I love the humanity on this forum.

Bob


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