# Did the 180, now what?



## rfAlaska (Jul 28, 2011)

I went through a VERY dry spell in my marriage. I felt like my wife was being very selfish on a number of levels and I moved from being 100% committed to my marriage to being willing to walk away despite the MONUMENTAL issues that it would cause.

For whatever reason, I emotionally detached and worked on myself. I am now happier with who I am and on some level (whatever that means) am at least somewhat committed to making the marriage work. She has changed her approach and I recognize the fact that she is working harder to meet my needs. I don't *think* my love for her is conditional based upon her ability to meet my needs but on some level, I am willing to concede there is truth to that notion.

I feel like I "flipped a switch" emotionally and I turned my feelings off. Now, I am "trying" to flip it back and I just can't seem to muster the courage (or perhaps the energy) to engage emotionally. Frankly, I'm apathetic (which is really scary because it means I feel nothing).

In some ways, I feel like a jerk because perhaps what I should do is just leave and give her the opportunity to find someone who can appreciate all that she is. If I felt that she wanted this, I probably would - but she clearly does not. If I left, it would destroy both of us financially (I'm not sure we could even afford to do it) and wreak immeasurable levels of havoc on our lives and the lives of many around us (ugh).

Some part of me wants to love and connect with her again, I just can't seem to get the rest of me feeling that way. Am I being a complete a**hole?

There isn't anyone else for me (or for her) and honestly, if this marriage blows up, I think I'm done with marriage forever. I've had enough.

Ideas?

Thanks


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Wow, if you can figure it out, please let me know. My wife went through all the classic signs of a Mid Life Crisis, had a potential EA and disconnected emotionally. For a year we worked on it, read Mort Fertels books together, but she just did not find the energy or interest for our maritial love. 

She seperated and left for 4 months and came back home. We have been in MC and will be trying a Marriage Restoration workshop in a few weeks.

She is still not connect emotionally. At times she tries and slightly shows signs, like holding my hand in bed this morning (may have been more pity). 

From the person on the other side, I don't get it and truly wish I understood. It seems like actions produce feelings in a mature relationship. If you really want a loving marriage it is doing for your partner and acknowledging them when they do for you. Those actions produce loving feelings.

Seems simple to me, so as hard as I try, I just don't get it.



I wouldn't give up if you really want to save it. Read Divorce Busters that helps with the patience required. That is what I keep telling myself over and over. Give her time and that love may return.


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## rfAlaska (Jul 28, 2011)

(This is Me) I'm sorry you're in the situation you are in. It has to be incredibly difficult and you seriously have no control. I appreciate your post because I am sure that I fail to see it from her side.

In my situation, I am sure that my wife feels she is busting her butt to try and get me to feel love for her again. I am going through the motions physically but I JUST CAN NOT muster any feelings for her. I freely admit this is ON ME and is largely due to me going through a serious mid-life crisis. 

Honestly, it sucks being on both ends of this. I feel so powerless to change this but I recognize that my feeling of being powerless is equal to my level of selfishness.


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## rfAlaska (Jul 28, 2011)

Any ideas?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## holiday82 (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks for sharing this. I'm a woman who's going through some very similar things, as you described. My husband says he is "all-in" and I'm just not. If I could wave a magic wand and have the feelings for my husband come back, I would....and I'd rather have that happen than get a divorce. However, I just can't get any drive or motivation to try to make things better. He does try, and I feel so selfish when I just can't. 

Don't know what's wrong with me, but I've burnt-out, physically and emotionally. I love him and I think he's a great person. But, after I've been trying to do a lot of work on myself, I've started to see some things in him that I don't like and that I resent. OMG....see, there's the selfishness coming out again. 

He's so fed up with me that we're about "this close" to separating. I either need to put in 100%, really quick, or I'm going to have damaged our relationship beyond repair. I can't figure out if I'm sabotaging it subconsciously...guess that's why they call it "subconsious." 
I don't know if this helps you, but if you've let things get this far...it's a bad place to be. I'm curious how things turned out for you & if you've tried to turn things around.


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## rfAlaska (Jul 28, 2011)

How did it turn out? Great question. The bottom line is that I feel as if the relationship is in neutral. We have busy kids and busy lives and I work a lot. She sleeps a lot. We spend very little time together. Honestly, we're both pleasant people so it's easy to just continue to go through the motions and peaceably coexist. I feel as if I could live this way for awhile and feel like I'm a wimp because I don't have the guts to do anything about it. I'm not sure I have the financial resources to do anything about it either but that's another issue.

I do feel as if my wife is moving toward your husband's position. I can "feel" her starting care less about me, what I think and what I feel. On some level, that has to be expected. My wife reads my body language and facial expressions like a book and she has to "see" how I feel.

I also would love to have a magic wand and I too would rather fall in love with my wife than go through a divorce - the collateral damage of a divorce is ridiculous.

I am coming to the conclusion that on some level, I have to make a direct decision to re-engage (as hard as that might be) and then DO IT, it's a choice. I know that I can't live like this forever and once my kids are gone (that is in sight), I'm screwed if nothing changes.

I also hear you on the selfishness part. In fact, it keeps me awake at night. 

Thank you so much for posting, I appreciate hearing from someone who is feeling some of what I am feeling.


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## holiday82 (Apr 23, 2012)

Grrr...this is worst feeling. I have no kids, so what you're going though must be much more complicated. Part of my problem is that I want to have a child in the next couple of years, and I worry that if i leave him I might not have a chance to have a baby before I'm too old (I'm 29 now). Obviously in this unhappy situation I'm in, I wouldn't want to bring a child into this anyway. 

My husband and I are in "neutral" too, but I don't know how long it can last. I think you're right, that's it's a choice to commit to changing things & then do it....I just can't decide & I just can't do it. I'm hoping for an epiphany...no such luck, though. Maybe some people stay in the marriage neutral-zone forever...But, how miserable would that be?!? Now, I'm 50/50...thinking that we could get through this and come out stronger vs. we should just go our separate ways. 

Sorry I kind of took over and started venting on your post, here. Good luck with everything


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Do you two spend 10-15 hours per week doing fun things together? Do you know what each other's emotional needs are, and do you try to meet them? Do you know each other's love languages? You fell in love because you met each other's needs, so you should figure out how to do that again.

Get a copy of His Needs, Her Needs and LoveBusters by Willard Harley. It will help you understand how to connect emotionally as a couple.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

rfAlaska said:


> I don't *think* my love for her is conditional based upon her ability to meet my needs but on some level, I am willing to concede there is truth to that notion.


Love does not equal marriage. Marriage requires more than love. You can love unconditionally, yet still not be able to remain married. Marriage should be conditional even if love isn't.


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## rfAlaska (Jul 28, 2011)

Wow Drover. I never thought of breaking love (in context) and marriage apart. I have to think about that for a bit. I guess it seems to me that if unconditional love is even possible, it would basically mean that you would stay married unconditionally.

Hmmmm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

You'd get a lot farther a lot faster when you understand the meaning of "unconditional love." Most people think "unconditional" is to love no matter what - no matter how your partner treats you, no matter what your partner does to you, and no matter what happens. That's not what it means and really doesn't make any sense. Frankly, it's ridiculous. Think about the many things a person could do that would destroy your love and cause you to leave the marriage. If unconditional love in this context were possible, no one would have any boundaries. There would be no deal breakers, and practically everyone would be sorely and severely disrespected many times over. It isn't possible to think a person is expected to live and love through everything and anything. And, even if you still love your spouse, you'd have to be a fool to remain married if that were the case.

"_I guess it seems to me that if unconditional love is even possible, it would basically mean that you would stay married unconditionally._"

That's not what it means either. No, you don't stay together no matter what. That's why the misconception doesn't make any sense. You can ponder it forever and never arrive at a comfortable answer or one that makes any sense. People who stay no matter what are pretty stupid if you ask me.

Unconditional love means to love without conditions. It doesn't mean to love unconditionally, as in no matter what. 

Unconditional Love - You don't place conditions on your love. 
You love the person whether or not they love you back. It is always nice to be loved, but it's not something you can expect unless they say (and show) that they love you, too. You can't very well tell a person "because I love you, you have to love me back" because you cannot MAKE them love you, so you can't place that obligation on the object of your affection. They have to assume the obligation freely. By the same token, you shouldn't say "I love you" and expect them to say it also. It's very often people say because it was said to them, so they feel they're supposed to say it back. It's nice that they say it back simply because they love you. However, a lot of people use saying those three words as a test, expect to hear it back, and are disappointed if they don't hear it back.

Unconditional Love - You don't expect anything in return for your expressions of love.
Love isn't a tit-4-tat negotiation. What you do to express your love, you cannot expect in return. You can't expect your partner to reciprocate. You can't expect to hold over them any debt of gratitude. What you do for them is done freely from your heart because you love them and want them to know you do. What they do for you is also done freely out of love without being made to feel obligated to repay your good deeds. One spouse often tells the other "look at all I do for you" but to say such a thing means you expect they owe you something. They don't because you weren't supposed to do anything with a price tag attached. If you don't receive expressions of love to meet your needs, then you have to determine for yourself if that person loves you or if the marriage/relationship is a one-way street.

This misconception is one of the biggest problems on these boards, where people (men mostly) expect sex because they are married. But, sex is to be an expression given freely out of love, not out of obligation or pressure. Way too many guys on these boards protest to compare deeds. I have read several (while many others *like* their posts) inject they wonder how their wife would feel if they stopped paying the bills, stopped spending time with her, stopped communicating with her, and stopped doing other things because their wife doesn't want to have sex. What they don't understand is they are supposed to do those things without expecting sex in return, just as she should want to have sex without expecting the bills will get paid for it. The danger in the antiphrasis of both these mindsets is reducing marriage to a legal state of prostitution. I think it pathetic of the guy who says the "time and attention he gives her is worth more [more valuable] than what she gives him in sex" (paraphrased). I have no reason to think he feels his wife a wh*re and himself her john, yet that is what he makes their relationship out to be with that kind of analysis.

Anyway..........

Neither love nor marriage should be conditional, not the true sense of unconditional love. That kind of gives you a different kind of "unconditional love" to ponder.


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## bluelaser (May 26, 2012)

River1977 said:


> The danger in the antiphrasis of both these mindsets is reducing marriage to a legal state of prostitution.


(I'm going to state an unconventional idea here, reverse of what you are saying)

Underneath love and partnership, at a very basic level, most marriages require the exchange of sex and money and i can prove it. 

Would most women marry an unemployed man who has no money? -- NO
Would most men marry a woman who would not give them any sex? -- NO

Very often guys will places posts here frustrated by their wives not giving them enough sex or that they have to beg their wives for sex. I can totally empathize with them, i can feel their frustration. But when a bunch of women post that 'my husband does not make enough money from me' or 'he won't let me spend' or 'he questions my spending' i can't understand what they are so frustrated about and think they are just crazy BUT i have noticed women seem to empathize with them. 

A secret that not many guys will admit is that they get married thinking of it as a form of sexual guarantee. That they can have sex whenever they want and don't have to work for it or beg for it .... only to be disappointed after a few years (Same with women who don't get the financial security i guess)


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