# My Wife Doesn't Want Me- My Husband Doesn't Help



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Been with this groups for many years and over and again it is common that men come here looking for answers as to why their wife doesn't want sex and women normally indicate hurt from not being heard, husbands being unavailable.

"A man may do everything to win a woman over but once he has passed the finish line he turns off his engine, parks his car and celebrates." Guys I am not picking on you, I'll get to the ladies in a second. The quote is from the book, ""Mars and Venus on a Date." 

"Most men think that you do little romantic things only until a woman accepts you and then you can relax. A man does not realize that it is his romantic attention that *fuels* a woman's attraction for him. If a man relaxes too much a woman will not get the fuel she needs to continue responding to him the way she did. By deliberately putting forth his energy and attention to fulfill a woman's romantic needs long after a woman has accepted him, a man trains himself to experience that the little romantic gestures of dating are not just to win a woman over but are actually required and necessary to sustain her responsiveness."

Ladies, ever wonder why your man just sits in front of the TV and does not engage? "On Mars, they instinctively try to be efficient. Their motto is to never do anything you don't have to. If someone else will do it then relax. Save your energy for the emergency. Put off what doesn't want to be done. Get from point A to point B as quick as possible." _Everyone reading is nodding their heads now. Been married twice myself and experienced this myself. _ Ladies, what men need from us when you long for his time and attention is to ask for it, not demand it or get angry because he cannot read your mind. "Women are taught to be desirable, but not to desire." _Important statement to understand._ "It is hard for them to ask for more. Women must break through this limited conditioning to discover that she is actually more desirable when she expresses her desires. A woman becomes more attractive when a man knows what she wants......A man will resist her request. His resistance is also misunderstood. It is not that he is resisting giving the help, it is he is resisting her resentful attitude. He is resisting the negative picture her complaints are painting of him. Ladies, don't say,'We never go out.' Instead say, 'Would you take me to the concert next weekend?' "

This post is a continuation of an on-going post in the Men's Lounge- Men Tell Me What You are Thinking. I had read one of the Mars and Venus books years ago and at the suggestion of Faithful Wife I picked up the book on dating. This doesn't just apply to dating though. I was married 24 years in my second marriage and I can tell you all of this applies in marriage. For you ladies who are dating and have found the initial hormonal stage is over and those rose colored glasses are now off, if you have found that your man is not calling, texting or wanting to see you like he used to when all those yummy hormones were pumping in his veins you may be feeling that he got what he wanted and are feeling unwanted, unloved, or even used. Don't ask him what he is feeling, let him explore his own thoughts, let him figure out what he wants, let him come to you. When he comes to you he will have more clarity. A man sometimes has to look around a little bit to make sure this is what he wants and if you are pushing to keep him and have becomes anxious and are crying because you feel it is over you will likely push him away. I suggest reading the book, all of this just mentioned is in chapter 3.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sounds about right. But when you are married and he puts in less effort and can put alot more effort into his golf games, why should I bother putting in effort, I just create my own life and make sure I am not available on his terms, unless I want something. I am learning from him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I love that book. It’s like a bible. For me, anyway.

It is like a magic translator. But I had to read it several times to really understand the primer enough to then understand the translator.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Not that this is not true but there are also other common issues for why people (men/women) don't want to have sex.

Their life's are stressful and they are waiting for the stress to go away, many times this is work stress where the partner has no ability to help (It's never going to go away).
They feel less attractive and therefor less sexy.
They are hurt form a previous fight, this may be very reasonable. They may even say they forgive their spouse but they have not really or the damage is still there and the bond is broken so they don't feel safe.
Health issues. 
They are selfish or lazy or even bored. 
They take their partner for granted.
They are having an affair. 

The book seems to help people for sure. Just to say it's not always helping around the house thing. I feel like half the guys who come on here are practically Joan Cleaver around the house hoping that somehow their wives will want to have sex with them because of that. That doesn't seem to work because there are much bigger problems in the marriage.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

aine said:


> Sounds about right. But when you are married and he puts in less effort and can put alot more effort into his golf games, why should I bother putting in effort, I just create my own life and make sure I am not available on his terms, unless I want something. I am learning from him.


We hear often about the sexual "bait and switch" of women. I feel that, stereotypically, men do a bait and switch in the attention, fun and love department. Having put the suit on, their work is done. 

Once newlyweds find themselves in that downward spiral, SOMEONE, doesn't much matter who, has to switch up the dynamic, though I can't say I have much negative to say about anyone who decides not to bother as well.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> We hear often about the sexual "bait and switch" of women. I feel that, stereotypically, men do a bait and switch in the attention, fun and love department. Having put the suit on, their work is done.
> 
> Once newlyweds find themselves in that downward spiral, SOMEONE, doesn't much matter who, has to switch up the dynamic, though I can't say I have much negative to say about anyone who decides not to bother as well.


We also hear a lot about how women say one thing but do another, and how women are not aware of how their own desires work.

I find the same is true of men, they are not always self aware pillars of understanding and communication.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> We also hear a lot about how women say one thing but do another, and how women are not aware of how their own desires work.
> 
> I find the same is true of men, they are not always self aware pillars of understanding and communication.


Indeedy. That is the very reason that the notion of trying HARDER to meet the OTHER'S needs than your own is key. You "get" your own needs on a level below conscious communication. The other's can seem baffling as heck.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Here is something valuable I learned from that book that has helped me in life generally.

The author explains that men and women have their own ways of communicating to each other in groups, but then men and women one on one doing their own type of communication can end up causing misunderstandings.

If you watch men talking in a group, they will be sometimes talking over one another, and will just chime in if they have something to say. If one in the group is being quiet, depending on the circumstances the others may harass him to join in, or they may just leave him be understanding that if the quiet dude wants to talk, he will. Men talking in groups are very free style about it, and they tend to be mostly interested in non emotional topics. 

Women in groups take turns speaking. We do this naturally, it’s just our usual way. We politely wait until the other has spoken and then we take our turn. We kind of suss out who needs to have more speaking time in the group depending on the circumstances. If a woman in the group is being quiet the others will draw her out. If she can’t be drawn out the others will still keep her included in a supportive way. We don’t usually talk over each other, and we feel it is rude when others do it.

These are of course extremely broad generalizations.

So you take a guy from the group and a gal from her group and plop them on a date.

What happens is that the guy, speaking in his normal guy way, talks about himself and things that interest him, and he waits for the gal to chime in with her thoughts. Whereas the gal, having not been asked her thoughts, thinks the guy just wants to talk about himself and isn’t interested in her or her thoughts. She is waiting for a question or an invitation to talk.

The guy just keeps talking because the gal isn’t offering anything. He ends up thinking she is just a quiet person.

I know many men do understand that they should ask questions of the woman on a date, but a lot of them get up to the plate and literally forget to do that. When they are on a date they believe they should be selling themselves and so they end up sort of talking the whole time. And yes, many women know to just speak up if he’s talking to much, but a lot of us don’t because it’s just too much energy to talk over a guy who is on a roll. 

There was a good whole section in the MVOAD book about “why do men talk about themselves so much on dates?”

It seems to be a phenomenon many men don’t realize they are doing. They are just very interested in their date and end up talking the whole time, thinking she must be really into me because she’s listening to everything I’m saying so intently. Sometimes she is actually thinking wow, he’s not into me at all because he hasn’t asked one question.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Upon reading the title of this thread, I thought it was about polyamory. >


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Good suggestion for reading. The walk away wife feels she's done everything possible to get him to engage, treat her better, ect., but what people often don't consider is what they've done is only that which they know to do. A person exhausts their own devices and resources without realizing there's more to do or they should have done things very differently because their knowledge base was limited and they didn't seek other knowledge and methods to apply. Lean not unto your own understanding, as the good book says. I got edumacated from your post.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

This is all well and good, but there are also extenuating circumstances that may come into play; it's not always about housework. It can be about external live stressors that a spouse has no ability to help with (issues within a spouse's parents/siblings, work, health issues), and then there are the spouses who either don't really listen or don't care.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> Here is something valuable I learned from that book that has helped me in life generally.
> 
> The author explains that men and women have their own ways of communicating to each other in groups, but then men and women one on one doing their own type of communication can end up causing misunderstandings.
> 
> ...


This has happened to me a couple times. Once with one guy who was actually really nice; we had loads in common, he had a couple small kids and a lifestyle that I could get behind. We went out a few times, and I ended up cutting contact because he just seemed to be really into talking about himself and not that interested in learning about what makes me tick. He was also self-aware that he talked a lot because he commented on it a few times. It was unfortunate because he really was a decent guy. But if what you wrote is correct, his behaviour makes a lot of sense!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I like what the book is saying. I can see some exceptions though. There are men and women out there that have not resolved their issues from either childhood or from a previous relationship, or both. I think when a person does not have resolve in their life it is hard to go into another relationship with open eyes and an open heart. I dated a man who after 10 years of divorce who was still so angry at his ex-wife. My ex who I was married to for 24 years had a love/hate relationship with women. he had not been close to his mother, his over-bearing/controlling older sister was who he was close to in the family, his dad was a very rude man who did not treat women well. Growing up I think my ex felt inadequate as far as being able to date women so he turned to funny man to find his way to make them interested in him. If he was rejected it hit him harder than most and after his high school girlfriend would not take him back after he cheated on her (who blames her) I think he pretty much took a vow to himself to never be hurt and to never let anyone close. Relationships cannot grow in a cesspool like this and there is alot of it out there. I thought if I could be understanding/patient enough, if we talked things thru enough that he would open up but it didn't happen and after a lifetime (for me it seemed) of living with a brick wall who was very very stuck and drinking himself away instead of facing the demands that drove him I finally realized I was worth more and left. That's where forgiveness, true forgiveness is a must. We have to free our hearts to open them.

Another exception is the man or women who is a cheater. No one likes being played or cheated on so I am not sure all of this applies to these types. Playing detective too to try to figure out if the person is lying to you about wanting to be with you for the right reasons or if he wants you for now, or for one reason, can be exhausting and very confusing. This is where proper mature honesty and communication are essential, unfortunately cheaters lack both.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I'm not sure generalities are all that helpful because they may cause people to misinterpret their own situations. 

Whether it is more frequent for men or women to get lazy, with romance, work, chores, sex or whatever, I think what matters is what is happening in the specific relationship being discussed.

Some of these things can be tricky as well, My wife has told me to get her flowers less often in order to make them seem more special. I understand that, but its easy to see how it can become tricky to figure out the right rate.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

uhtred said:


> I'm not sure generalities are all that helpful because they may cause people to misinterpret their own situations.
> 
> Whether it is more frequent for men or women to get lazy, with romance, work, chores, sex or whatever, I think what matters is what is happening in the specific relationship being discussed.
> 
> Some of these things can be tricky as well, My wife has told me to get her flowers less often in order to make them seem more special. I understand that, but its easy to see how it can become tricky to figure out the right rate.


Yes, but is good is that she was able to tell you that she would like less. Some wives, like myself, did not tell my husband what I needed less of which was jewelry that I would never wear. I am not sure why he didn't notice. The thought was sweet but he'd pay $200 for a simple bracelet that I didn't care for and wouldn't wear. So I do think it is good that she was able to tell you that having flowers less often makes them more special to her. On your end of it though I can see why you would be asking....how often? I wished my ex would have changed things up and instead of giving flowers and jewelry repeatedly I think I would have enjoyed being surprised by him pouring my a glass of wine after work (something I mentioned previously, lol) and kissing me behind my ear and telling me how much he appreciated my hard work.....and that is free!!!!!!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It can also be tricky to give feedback the right way. If someone does a favor for you the normal thing is to respond positively even if the favor wasn't something you really wanted because you appreciate the attempt and that they care. 

My most difficult one was when my wife bought a set of lingerie specially for my birthday - and it was... well....horrible. Most of her lingerie is really nice and I think she looks great in it and appreciate her making an effort that way. So how to tell her that this "special" lingerie really wasn't a good plan.







AVR1962 said:


> Yes, but is good is that she was able to tell you that she would like less. Some wives, like myself, did not tell my husband what I needed less of which was jewelry that I would never wear. I am not sure why he didn't notice. The thought was sweet but he'd pay $200 for a simple bracelet that I didn't care for and wouldn't wear. So I do think it is good that she was able to tell you that having flowers less often makes them more special to her. On your end of it though I can see why you would be asking....how often? I wished my ex would have changed things up and instead of giving flowers and jewelry repeatedly I think I would have enjoyed being surprised by him pouring my a glass of wine after work (something I mentioned previously, lol) and kissing me behind my ear and telling me how much he appreciated my hard work.....and that is free!!!!!!


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Well sure, but what if the program on TV is far more interesting than her?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> We also hear a lot about how women say one thing but do another, and how women are not aware of how their own desires work.
> 
> I find the same is true of men, they are not always self aware pillars of understanding and communication.


In fact at the expense of overgeneralising, it is usually women who read the books, take care of the relationship, seek therapy, etc, not the husbands (husbands who do are something special imo). 
When a wife is left holding the relationship and being the one to ensure it is moving along for the benefit of both, it gets tiring. I am now past 50 and whereas when I was younger it bothered me, I constantly tested the temperature of our relationship, bought the books, the tapes, etc. 

Now I don't give a rat's ass, I have reared the kids, done my time, now I only care about me. If he notices, good, if he doesn't then I already have other things to fill my life, his loss. If he thinks his occasional attempts to connect over coffee, etc make for a great marriage, then he is mistaken. We went and had a great holiday overseas at Christmas/New Year, he kept saying about how great a time we had. I am thinking it was great for me, not because of his company or the sex but because it is a fabulous country. I could have had an equally great time with a friend come to think of it. Incidentally I paid for it all.

Sorry for the diatribe, just letting it all out.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Here is something valuable I learned from that book that has helped me in life generally.
> 
> The author explains that men and women have their own ways of communicating to each other in groups, but then men and women one on one doing their own type of communication can end up causing misunderstandings.
> 
> ...


Women are also much more sensitive to other peoples feelings in general. They may not be digging the guy at all, but because they don't want to be cruel or rude, try and let him down gently and some men just cannot take the hint. 

Men talk about themselves alot, you see that at work too, about their achievements, their holidays, some day I expect one of them to whip it out and start comparing sizes.....:grin2:


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

uhtred said:


> It can also be tricky to give feedback the right way. If someone does a favor for you the normal thing is to respond positively even if the favor wasn't something you really wanted because you appreciate the attempt and that they care.
> 
> My most difficult one was when my wife bought a set of lingerie specially for my birthday - and it was... well....horrible. Most of her lingerie is really nice and I think she looks great in it and appreciate her making an effort that way. So how to tell her that this "special" lingerie really wasn't a good plan.


I think you have to go gentle and tell her without offending her.
I remember buying a sweet teddy for my H in our early days of marriage, thinking he would like it. 
He laughed at me and said he would much prefer me naked. I understood where he was coming from, but I felt a bit hurt as I had made the effort and I have never forgotten that (over 25 years later). 
I never bought a piece of lingerie since and only buy underwear for myself (not for him).


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

At some later time when she was wearing a different one, I let her know that I especially liked that one (without mentioning the hideous birthday one...)





aine said:


> I think you have to go gentle and tell her without offending her.
> I remember buying a sweet teddy for my H in our early days of marriage, thinking he would like it.
> He laughed at me and said he would much prefer me naked. I understood where he was coming from, but I felt a bit hurt as I had made the effort and I have never forgotten that (over 25 years later).
> I never bought a piece of lingerie since and only buy underwear for myself (not for him).


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

uhtred said:


> It can also be tricky to give feedback the right way. If someone does a favor for you the normal thing is to respond positively even if the favor wasn't something you really wanted because you appreciate the attempt and that they care.
> 
> My most difficult one was when my wife bought a set of lingerie specially for my birthday - and it was... well....horrible. Most of her lingerie is really nice and I think she looks great in it and appreciate her making an effort that way. So how to tell her that this "special" lingerie really wasn't a good plan.


Buy her something you would like to see her in and let her know how you like how she looks in it.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

aine said:


> In fact at the expense of overgeneralising, it is usually women who read the books, take care of the relationship, seek therapy, etc, not the husbands (husbands who do are something special imo).
> When a wife is left holding the relationship and being the one to ensure it is moving along for the benefit of both, it gets tiring. I am now past 50 and whereas when I was younger it bothered me, I constantly tested the temperature of our relationship, bought the books, the tapes, etc.
> 
> Now I don't give a rat's ass, I have reared the kids, done my time, now I only care about me. If he notices, good, if he doesn't then I already have other things to fill my life, his loss. If he thinks his occasional attempts to connect over coffee, etc make for a great marriage, then he is mistaken. We went and had a great holiday overseas at Christmas/New Year, he kept saying about how great a time we had. I am thinking it was great for me, not because of his company or the sex but because it is a fabulous country. I could have had an equally great time with a friend come to think of it. Incidentally I paid for it all.
> ...


I sure get it! Went thru the very same thing so I so understand. Guys are not going to read the books and they are not going to seek therapy. My ex had a book on disciplining children that his sister gave him when he was a single dad and his boys were way out of control. he read like 3 chapters and then that book sat on his headboard for a good 20 years. He would read SciFi books but never picked up the self-help book again. I finally removed it from the headboard and he never notice. My ex did go to counseling with me as a couple. Counselor explained the process of love deposit and withdrawals and told him I had one foot out the door because I was not getting anything in return for my efforts. The last 5 years we existed as roommates and he was perfectly happy to do his thing like he was single. There was nothing endearing from him. The counselor told my ex step by step what he needed to do so he became like a robot....here is your flowers like clockwork. The gifts were no substitute for his love, something I was not feeling. I wasn't looking for flowers. I wanted his time, a connection without the cell phone, to share experiences, and be able to enjoy life together. Counselor had us work on a exercise where we had to express what we liked about the other person. He came in with this very nice poetic bit that he read out loud. I told the counselor that I knew my husband well enough that I knew he did not write that, that more than likely he had nothing and had to come to the meeting and didn't want to be empty handed so he looked it up on the internet. Counselor asked husband, husband claimed these were his own words. I told the counselor I knew it was not the truth. We get the car after the meet and husband admitted to me that I was correct, he found it on the internet and for the very reason I had told the counselor.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> It can also be tricky to give feedback the right way. If someone does a favor for you the normal thing is to respond positively even if the favor wasn't something you really wanted because you appreciate the attempt and that they care.
> 
> My most difficult one was when my wife bought a set of lingerie specially for my birthday - and it was... well....horrible. Most of her lingerie is really nice and I think she looks great in it and appreciate her making an effort that way. So how to tell her that this "special" lingerie really wasn't a good plan.


I guess, if I were you, I might not ask myself how to tell her, but why to tell her? I mean, how many times is she likely to wear it before it is relegated to the pile?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> I sure get it! Went thru the very same thing so I so understand. Guys are not going to read the books and they are not going to seek therapy. My ex had a book on disciplining children that his sister gave him when he was a single dad and his boys were way out of control. he read like 3 chapters and then that book sat on his headboard for a good 20 years. He would read SciFi books but never picked up the self-help book again. I finally removed it from the headboard and he never notice. My ex did go to counseling with me as a couple. Counselor explained the process of love deposit and withdrawals and told him I had one foot out the door because I was not getting anything in return for my efforts. The last 5 years we existed as roommates and he was perfectly happy to do his thing like he was single. There was nothing endearing from him. The counselor told my ex step by step what he needed to do so he became like a robot....here is your flowers like clockwork. The gifts were no substitute for his love, something I was not feeling. I wasn't looking for flowers. I wanted his time, a connection without the cell phone, to share experiences, and be able to enjoy life together. Counselor had us work on a exercise where we had to express what we liked about the other person. He came in with this very nice poetic bit that he read out loud. I told the counselor that I knew my husband well enough that I knew he did not write that, that more than likely he had nothing and had to come to the meeting and didn't want to be empty handed so he looked it up on the internet. Counselor asked husband, husband claimed these were his own words. I told the counselor I knew it was not the truth. We get the car after the meet and husband admitted to me that I was correct, he found it on the internet and for the very reason I had told the counselor.


What I don't get about stories like this... why did he want to stay together with you?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> I guess, if I were you, I might not ask myself how to tell her, but why to tell her? I mean, how many times is she likely to wear it before it is relegated to the pile?


Its not a problem anymore. I was just commenting on communication.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

aine said:


> Sounds about right. But when you are married and he puts in less effort and can put alot more effort into his golf games, why should I bother putting in effort, I just create my own life and make sure I am not available on his terms, unless I want something. I am learning from him.


Wow, respectfully, that's harsh.

Granted I haven't read all posts yet, if there's more that tempers this statement. 

Kindly,

RR


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

You know I've seen all of this:
Men don't help around the house stuff.
All this women don't want sex stuff.
How about put the book down that tells you whats wrong with your partner and look in the mirror.
All of the answers lay inside ourselves. Mars, Venus...nonsense.
What are you doing to fix your own head?
What are you doing to find meaning in your life?
So attend to yourself. Realize you are too complex to understand without careful self reflection.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> You know I've seen all of this:
> Men don't help around the house stuff.
> All this women don't want sex stuff.
> How about put the book down that tells you whats wrong with your partner and look in the mirror.
> ...


I might have you confused with another poster, but don’t you advocate the MMSLP book?


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> What I don't get about stories like this... why did he want to stay together with you?


Very good question!!!!!! Towards the end of the marriage when I still wasn't sure if I was leaving I asked him what he liked about me. His response, "You are a good person." Nothing specific and at the time it really upset me, I didn't let it show. After all those years of marriage and this is what he liked? I felt we had a mother child relationship, he was the child. he was not a leader and was reprimanded in his work place for the lack of leadership. He had some issues that he really needed to face but would not. I tried to change the dynamic between us but couldn't. I actually do not wish him any ill will. I do hope that he will find the love of his life and they live happily every after, it just was not going to be me.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> You know I've seen all of this:
> Men don't help around the house stuff.
> All this women don't want sex stuff.
> How about put the book down that tells you whats wrong with your partner and look in the mirror.
> ...


You sound very bitter, forgive me if I am wrong....I interpreted your reply as such. Yes, we all do have to dig deep inside ourselves, we have to understand what has made us who we are, we have to forgive and let go and until we do we cannot truly open our hearts to another person. That right there is where I feel my marriage of 24 years failed. My ex fell in love with a girl in high school who he has not yet been able to move on from, I might be wrong but I have seen men carry hurt ( women do too) that has kept them from becoming close and opening up. I do think there is a great deal of validity in the book.....men and women really do speak a different language and we don't always understand the needs of the other, I think that is why we all are here.


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## Spent (Jan 27, 2019)

AVR1962 said:


> I sure get it! Went thru the very same thing so I so understand. *Guys are not going to read the books and they are not going to seek therapy.* My ex had a book on disciplining children that his sister gave him when he was a single dad and his boys were way out of control. he read like 3 chapters and then that book sat on his headboard for a good 20 years. *He would read SciFi books but never picked up the self-help book again.* I finally removed it from the headboard and he never notice. My ex did go to counseling with me as a couple. Counselor explained the process of love deposit and withdrawals and told him I had one foot out the door because I was not getting anything in return for my efforts. The last 5 years we existed as roommates and he was perfectly happy to do his thing like he was single. There was nothing endearing from him. The counselor told my ex step by step what he needed to do so he became like a robot....here is your flowers like clockwork. The gifts were no substitute for his love, something I was not feeling. I wasn't looking for flowers. I wanted his time, a connection without the cell phone, to share experiences, and be able to enjoy life together. Counselor had us work on a exercise where we had to express what we liked about the other person. He came in with this very nice poetic bit that he read out loud. I told the counselor that I knew my husband well enough that I knew he did not write that, that more than likely he had nothing and had to come to the meeting and didn't want to be empty handed so he looked it up on the internet. Counselor asked husband, husband claimed these were his own words. I told the counselor I knew it was not the truth. We get the car after the meet and husband admitted to me that I was correct, he found it on the internet and for the very reason I had told the counselor.



I have to say this is an over generalization of men. In my marriage I am the one who has been trying to get her to go to counseling for years. I am the one who has bought books and read them then tried to get her to read them to understand where I was coming from or what we could do to improve our relationship, she never did. She will read romance books on her kindle non-stop, watch lifetime type movies every chance she gets. To me that is purely entertainment. Then talk about something I can do and say " I wish I could do that" to which I reply. I have no special powers and are not overly smart, but I want to do something so I read books and watch videos and learn how to do it, by working at it. It takes effort to learn to do something!! You spend your time entertaining yourself, while I spend my time learning things! I rarely watch or read anything purely for entertainment reasons, there is just too much I do not know. Not saying anything is wrong with being entertained, but you can not spend your time entertaining yourself, while at the same time complain because you do not know how to do something!

I would so like for us to try and go to a sex therapist to try to improve that area, but in past conversations she has no interest in doing so. I barely got her to agree to go to couples counseling. But she was always been very reserved and every single thought had to be pulled from her lips by the therapist. Most times when we left her thoughts were always the same, she believed the therapist was asking things that was none of her business. I always told her if we could solve our problems on our own we would have already, but we had not, so obviously we did not know what to do to fix us!

I will ask, what to do in this situation. My wife says she does not get to make decisions and feels like she is constantly told what to do. Ok, So I ask her questions or give her something to take care of on her own. She procrastinates or says she does not know what she wants to do? Sooner or later someone has to make a decision, so I step in and make the decision. How is that being controlling? I mean if she is given the opportunity to make a decision, but does not make it, what else do I do? Especially on some things like financial decisions which can be time sensitive?

She only feels the need to have sex when she is in the mood! So I say fine when you are in the mood let me know and we will have sex then. Months go by and we never have sex?

She wants a certain kind of marriage counselor! Fine you call around and find one you like and we will go there. Months go by and we still have NO marriage councilor? 

She wants to move things out of the house we are selling her way and pack them her way so she knows where everything is. Fine, you take care of that. over a year later and nothing has been moved out of the house, we are still making payments and can not list it with the real estate because it is full of stuff.

How am I being controlling in these situations where finally when she does not make a decision I have to, someone has to!!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Spent said:


> I have to say this is an over generalization of men. In my marriage I am the one who has been trying to get her to go to counseling for years. I am the one who has bought books and read them then tried to get her to read them to understand where I was coming from or what we could do to improve our relationship, she never did. She will read romance books on her kindle non-stop, watch lifetime type movies every chance she gets. To me that is purely entertainment. Then talk about something I can do and say " I wish I could do that" to which I reply. I have no special powers and are not overly smart, but I want to do something so I read books and watch videos and learn how to do it, by working at it. It takes effort to learn to do something!! You spend your time entertaining yourself, while I spend my time learning things! I rarely watch or read anything purely for entertainment reasons, there is just too much I do not know. Not saying anything is wrong with being entertained, but you can not spend your time entertaining yourself, while at the same time complain because you do not know how to do something!
> 
> I would so like for us to try and go to a sex therapist to try to improve that area, but in past conversations she has no interest in doing so. I barely got her to agree to go to couples counseling. But she was always been very reserved and every single thought had to be pulled from her lips by the therapist. Most times when we left her thoughts were always the same, she believed the therapist was asking things that was none of her business. I always told her if we could solve our problems on our own we would have already, but we had not, so obviously we did not know what to do to fix us!
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are me, and or experiences are just reversed as far as male and female roles. I feel for you!!! I am not sure why the spouse does not understand or get it but I can say it doesn't change.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Spent said:


> I have to say this is an over generalization of men. In my marriage I am the one who has been trying to get her to go to counseling for years. I am the one who has bought books and read them then tried to get her to read them to understand where I was coming from or what we could do to improve our relationship, she never did. She will read romance books on her kindle non-stop, watch lifetime type movies every chance she gets. To me that is purely entertainment. Then talk about something I can do and say " I wish I could do that" to which I reply. I have no special powers and are not overly smart, but I want to do something so I read books and watch videos and learn how to do it, by working at it. It takes effort to learn to do something!! You spend your time entertaining yourself, while I spend my time learning things! I rarely watch or read anything purely for entertainment reasons, there is just too much I do not know. Not saying anything is wrong with being entertained, but you can not spend your time entertaining yourself, while at the same time complain because you do not know how to do something!
> 
> I would so like for us to try and go to a sex therapist to try to improve that area, but in past conversations she has no interest in doing so. I barely got her to agree to go to couples counseling. But she was always been very reserved and every single thought had to be pulled from her lips by the therapist. Most times when we left her thoughts were always the same, she believed the therapist was asking things that was none of her business. I always told her if we could solve our problems on our own we would have already, but we had not, so obviously we did not know what to do to fix us!
> 
> ...


I think many of the men who find their way to TAM are of the group of men who do read relationship books and seek to improve their marriages.

However, data shows that by a huge margin, women are the main consumers of relationship books.

I think it’s cool when men do read such books and are trying to improve their marriages. It does seem to be around here that these men (I assume you as well) have wives who aren’t interested in changing or improving the marriage or the sex life. So those wives don’t read the books, and only go to counseling when they have been dragged there. I am sorry you are going through that. I can’t imagine just ignoring my husband asking me to go to counseling with him, or asking me to read a book that relates to us. I mean, I would just know there is something important going on here. I would fear putting my head in the sand about it.

But then again, I’m not those wives and I don’t know why they feel the way they do.


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## Spent (Jan 27, 2019)

I am holding to the hope now that when our house sells and some financial stress is relieved things will change. Not sure if that is rational, but it is what I have to hold to for now. I really feel like I have tried everything that I can. I am here partly grasping at straws thinking there is some piece of information I am missing, some THING I just don't know that is somehow I can learn I can fix us. Again, I know that is not rational, but it is what I have for now. I find our marriage goes pretty well as long as I do not ask anything from her, but I can only do that for so long, as in several weeks at a time, then it blows up again! I just can't give up yet, just feel like my life is on hold and has been for the last several years? 

Anyway, thanks for your post and thanks for listening.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I might have you confused with another poster, but don’t you advocate the MMSLP book?


I advocate for the book "12 Rules for life" ...Fixing yourself before you try to fix the world.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> You sound very bitter, forgive me if I am wrong....I interpreted your reply as such. Yes, we all do have to dig deep inside ourselves, we have to understand what has made us who we are, we have to forgive and let go and until we do we cannot truly open our hearts to another person. That right there is where I feel my marriage of 24 years failed. My ex fell in love with a girl in high school who he has not yet been able to move on from, I might be wrong but I have seen men carry hurt ( women do too) that has kept them from becoming close and opening up. I do think there is a great deal of validity in the book.....men and women really do speak a different language and we don't always understand the needs of the other, I think that is why we all are here.


You are wrong. I am not bitter. I've read these Mars, Venus books. I think they are to thin on the surface to fix things long term.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Spent said:


> I have to say this is an over generalization of men. In my marriage I am the one who has been trying to get her to go to counseling for years. I am the one who has bought books and read them then tried to get her to read them to understand where I was coming from or what we could do to improve our relationship, she never did.


Just to respond to this part of this thread. I know that FW I think asked about the Mars Venus books and my thoughts. 

But while this may be an over generalization of men, in reality, it is not. 

SO many men don't intuitively get the Mars Venus stuff, I read it a while back, I am rereading it to see if missed something, so far I have not. 

Lots of men read books to try and figure out relationships, I think it helped me when I was younger. However, these days I understand most of the stuff because relationships and women, no offense, can still be frustrating. 

I understood long ago, 1) women want to be listened to, and not fixed, oh unless they do, so that is a fine line. Now a days, I just listen, and say things like "That is just so horrible", and "wow, I know how you feel", and "Oh I cannot believe she did that"....

And not to denigrate a woman's need for empathy but just listening is not that hard. Do I like to do it all the time, not really but I know that they need that, so I do it. 

But as some point I also say, "Look, I get how you are feeling, I know it sucks, but if you want it to change, I can give you some suggestions about how to fix that if you want... If not, I am hear to listen.

Same thing about the other mars venus stuff. In so many ways, I am not like a lot of men... yes sometimes I do need time away, but I get that when I am out playing and talking to my guys. Otherwise, most of the time, I want to be with my girl. 

I actually like spending time with her, and of course there is the sex which is great, and frequent. 

But frankly, I would rather lay in bed with her cuddling and making love than I would go hunting. I am just not into it any more. 

However, to the post that I quoted, LOTS of men, are completely clueless. They have never even heard of the mars venus books of any of the other ones, and they cannot spell self help book....

So really her comment above was really now an over generalization of men, just an over generalization of me and the few other men that are like me...

Does that make any sense to anyone???


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