# Men who aren't shallow please advise and anyone else who has an opinion



## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Originally Posted by jumper21 
I've posted in the past, but I am that husband. 
In my situation, there is a deep rooted issue that hinges on my wife that needs to change. 

My issue started with her being over weight. After 6 years of our marriage and 2 kids, I finally told her that it is difficult for me to say it but I have an issue with her weight. Now, if I were told something like that, I would try to change it. If she would say, "what can I eat? How can I exercise? I am going to diet. And look good for you." 
But instead, no effort has been put towards my wishes. To me, I feel like "I guess, I'm not worth it for her." or "She's so selfish."

I would have him just lay it all out on the table. If you want to know, be willing to change or be willing to find out. If it's not worth it for you to change, then at least you know.



MY RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE POST:
This is just infuriating. My husband just did the I love you but I am not in love with you. Well, he certainly was in love with me when I was his arm piece but after gaining 70 pounds with HIS child and becoming ill afterward I am still 200 pounds and our daughter just turned 9 years old, by the way, my father told me I could quit calling it "baby weight", hmmm wonder how I picked the same sort of abusive man? Anyway, I was playboy beautiful my whole life and I have had two husbands share the opinion that overwheight is sickening, unattractive, and non sexual. Well guess what? The first husband I was with I met when I was 19 yo and he thought going from 117 pounds to a healthy 130 was outrageous. My second husband told me during our first sexual encounter that "he liked a little butter on his potatoes but didn't like it slobbing over the side", I was 140 pounds, strong, shapely, and healthy. Now, I ask you men..........what if your wife was in a car accident and her face was permanently scarred? What then? No more sex, repulsivity? what is love? Love is an action not a feeling. Do you love your wife or do you want a woman who won't age? Do you want children? Well, grow up. I am almost positive that she knows she is overweight. I am sure she is traumatized and puts herself down enough without needing any extra help. If you are so visually inclined then do her a favor and leave. I hear there are still 18 year olds looking for immature men.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

um, is the weight issue a result of a medical condition or overeating/lack of excercise?

you sound defensive, 200 pounds is heavy. you seem to make excuses or appear to be trying to rationalize the weight issue away by the take it or leave it this is who i am approach.

i deal with a similar issue with my wifes hoarding, she just cannot see it for what it is and instead makes ridiculous excuses and actually tries to turn it onto me like its my fault. if she doesnt fix it soon i will be gone, maybe she will find some man that likes it.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

I would like to start by thanking you for your response. In answer to your analysis, "yes" I am defensive. Defensive is to defend and when my spirity, soul, and core self is attacked and rejected I believe it is human nature to defend.

Yes, mine is medical however, this is not the issue. The question is, what if your wife had to have a mastectomy (a breast removed secondary to cancer) or her face was ruined in a terrible car accident? What if she lost a limb? 

What is love? I understand that fat is ugly. TRUST ME, I KNOW I AM FAT WITHOUT THE MAN THAT IS SUPPOSED TO DEFEND MY HONOR TELLING ME or even more cowardly, not telling me.

I live with my fat, shame, hatred of myself far more than he does. He is not Brad Pitt but somehow when he takes off his clothes it is him I am with not the fact that his penis is a little thin, or he weighs 130 pounds and his hips protrude and he has chicken legs. I love him for who he is. I guess I made a foolish mistake expecting the same.

Most woman eat excessively because food is their best friend. Hmmm, sad. They are lonely. They are in need of adoration not ridicule or threats. I believe that we can communicate without throwing out barbs at one another. I wrote this post in anger, correct. I am deeply, deeply, wounded by this rejection. I am going to be 40 years old. I can't be arm candy forever.

Love is an action as in how you treat someone regardless of their humaness. Love is not a feeling. When a man states that he is not "in love with you anymore" translated that means "I am not attracted to you anymore" the more a woman hears that the more she eats. It is a vicious cycle.

I, myself have tried medication, medically managed weight loss programs, weight watchers, and as a last hope I actually had a lapband surgery. 

We are here for such a short time. I just have a hard time understanding the cruelty. Why not leave your wife without permenately scarring her before you go?

Again, please know that fat does not equate with slob.


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## alwaysalone (Nov 17, 2007)

desperado: I am sorry that your husband says this to you. And you are correct in many ways. I wasn't small but I also wasn't big when I met my husband. After the birth of our daughter I did gain 60+ lbs. It was hard on me without his smart azz comments. I knew I gained weight, I knew I got more stretch marks. But hell, I am a woman who carried his child, he should be happy that our daughter was born happy and healthy. Instead it's the comments that hurt. Go sit on his lap and you get, **** fat azz you are heavy. Or how about you we both can't fit down the hall. The worst part, he isn't any smaller. He has gained more weight than I did. I did start to lose it. I go back and forth, gain - lose, gain - lose. But still the comments come but yet his fat azz hasn't lost anything. And you are also right, food is our best friend especially if we are upset and/or depressed. What do we do: EAT!! And eat everything in sight. Maybe if they would help us instead of bringing us down, realize that we can't be that small skinny person for the rest of our lives, and help us and love us the way we are, we would be able to help ourselves too.

Just my opinion.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

There are plenty of men out there that do like healthy women. I use the term "healthy" because I wouldn't want to hear the things that Desperado and Alwaysalone described. Although I have never been terribly "healthy," and was even called "too skinny" by my ex-husband, I think it is just plain wrong and even cruel to place labels on anyone. 

I am sorry that you have had to listen to such crap. I can't stand hypocracy, as I see it on a daily basis. Try not to let these "perfect people" get to you. In fact, maybe you should kick them to the curb and find someone who appreciates you.

(((HUGS)))

FZ1


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

WOW, now that is the kind of kindness and understanding that mature and people who have heart are able to give. I actually feel sorry for the man who is so dissatified with his wife's weight. Too bad, she had probably been there for him for years.
I thank you foolz1 and alwaysalone. Hmmm, didn't seem to be too fat when I was exchanging his airline tickets to first class as a surprise or my sister was paying for his braces (thank god she doesn't know that he told me that his worst nightmare was that I would end up looking like her as she is fat also). I kept checking back on the post to see if there were any human souls out there. I am re-affirmed.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Desperado, the people who are out there disrespecting others obviously have a low opinion and are insecure with themselves and therefore want to make others miserable, just because they are. It is likely an attempt to make themselves feel better about their own imperfections, as *nobody, anywhere* is perfect. It shouldn't matter about your weight or anything else, as you have clearly sacrificed a great deal when you had their children. They are being selfish and immature, to say the least.

I am truly sorry that you have been treated in this manner. It is just not fair and totally uncalled for.

I am wishing you the best!


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Atholk, I rarely react this way to anyone, but your statements are downright insensitive, inappropriate and unwarranted, however, I'm undoubtedly convinced that you believe that you are perfect. It is your opinion...have at it.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

We are all biologically designed to do a lot of things, that means something but not everything. Then comes our interaction with the environment which sharpens who we become and what we believe in over time. Should my wife become extremely over weight, or lose a breast to cancer or anything like that, no way I would leave. She's a great mother, great wife and a top student in school. I've also had friends that have trophy wives that are dumb as a box of rocks. Their beauty had become the only real thing they had going for them, and I thought how sad. Sure if I were her dating her as her husband did I would enjoy her beauty and her flesh but then I would have to talk to her. Stupid people are far more unattractive than ugly people to me. The mind is by far the most sexy.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

It's a pretty superficial "analysis" of human biology to equate "thin" with "sexy" or even "healthy." Furthermore, just because men find a specific hip-to-waist ratio "most attractive," does NOT automatically mean they find anything else "unattractive." 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We women have had to fight the social conditioning that over-empahsized thinness beginning in the 1960s, and guess what? Many of us have learned to see our own bodies as beautiful, to see skinny as sickly, to see "ultra-fit" as perhaps a sign of shallowness (or at least, way too much time on someone's hands!), etc. It is a weak position, logically, to argue that overweight is automatically unattractive. Morbid obesity, perhaps--but that often comes with a host of physical and/or mental ailments that become tiring to anyone who must constantly put up with the limitations of someone that ill. I was 70 lbs overweight after the birth of my last bio child, and I took my time losing it, b/c it simply wasn't important to me. At the same time, because I've always been an active person, I was still fairly fit and had excellent overall health--unusual, but not unheard of! My size didn't keep me from doing things and I didn't complain about things that were weight-related (getting too hot, not being comfortable in certain chairs, etc, etc, etc). Lots of overweight people do, however, and that attitude is unattractive. One's weight is one's own issue and we should not judge others on size. How someone handles their weight issues, however, is a separate issue that may be creating tension in relationships. 

Having said that, my dh rejected me simply b/c I was fat. I was actually glad (long story) but it still hurt to hear some of what he said--just mean of him, frankly. I find many men attractive who are overweight, even significantly so, although truly obese men are a turnoff sexually for me. I wouldn't refuse to befriend someone like that, however. Furthermore, I'm very attracted to someone and I cannot imagine his size--no matter what it became--ever interfering with my attraction to him, b/c it isn't about how he looks at all! He is totally "not my type" and that doesn't matter a bit! I actually think he is sexier than Brad Pitt, and I think BP is pretty damn hot!

FYI: I am NOT saying that everyone who is morbidly obese IS mentally ill; please don't put those words in my mouth. But the meds for tx of many mental illness often contribute to obesity, and there is a higher correlation. Abuse of food, like alcohol abuse, is a symptom of self-medicating, too.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

the comparisons you made to breast cancer and disfigurement due to accidents are not the same. weight is controlable, may take a medicinal approach but there are things you can do, one of them is finding someone who likes full figured women. gaining 70 pounds and keeping it for 9 years, i would expect my wife to repel me if i did that


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> the comparisons you made to breast cancer and disfigurement due to accidents are not the same. weight is controlable, may take a medicinal approach but there are things you can do, one of them is finding someone who likes full figured women. gaining 70 pounds and keeping it for 9 years, i would expect my wife to repel me if i did that


Hmmmm, I have heard alot of "opinion" and alot of what some must consider to be "medical science", but this qoute shows a complete failure at understanding the analogy but an assuption (and we all know what that does) that all can lose weight out of free will. Believe me friend, no woman wants to be fat and if a small amount of research is done you will find that there are a multitude of medical, biological, and psychological reasons that some people cannot lose weight. Love is an action not a feeling. To love is to act toward others as you would want to be treated if in the same situation. You would think that all of your anger be directed at your own inadequacies vs. being a bully towards the woman you vowed to protect, honor, through better and worse. I am clear that we only are angry at others "issues" when we don't feel very good about ourselves.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

desperado said:


> Hmmmm, I have heard alot of "opinion" and alot of what some must consider to be "medical science", but this qoute shows a complete failure at understanding the analogy but an assuption (and we all know what that does) that all can lose weight out of free will. Believe me friend, no woman wants to be fat and if a small amount of research is done you will find that there are a multitude of medical, biological, and psychological reasons that some people cannot lose weight. Love is an action not a feeling. To love is to act toward others as you would want to be treated if in the same situation. You would think that all of your anger be directed at your own inadequacies vs. being a bully towards the woman you vowed to protect, honor, through better and worse. I am clear that we only are angry at others "issues" when we don't feel very good about ourselves.


BTW, I am quite sure that your wife repels you just as you are.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Atholk said:


> By demanding your husband to just accept you for what you are, you are basically asking him to _not react to you like a man_. How is he meant to even do that? And even if he did stop reacting to you like a man, would that really be acceptable to you? Right now he's still interested in you. When he _gives up_ and accepts you will never change, isn't it really just _over_ between you on some level?
> 
> Men desiring beautiful and height/weight proportional mates aren't being shallow at all. It's exactly what we are biologically designed and driven to do. The actual desirable weight range can be higher or lower, but worldwide there is a common agreement on the 0.7 waist to hip ratio as being attractive. The body logic behind this is that women of this body shape have the greatest success chances at successful pregnancy. What's good for making babies = what is sexy. Wives underestimate physical fitness at their peril, men are deeply deeply driven for attractive mates.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your medical research in the name of love. I can tell you that there are many "left over" biologically driven responses to what was the reason for men and woman to find the mate that produced the strongest offspring. It is referred to as "Survival of the fittest" but you probably already knew that. Since the time that we quit having to reproduce for the species survival, men and woman have determined love is a stronger action to a monogomous relationship, as monogomy is not a natural choice when the species is at risk. If you want to play the biological natural selection card, the fact is that woman naturally gravitate towards men that can protect them and their "offspring" so I am not sure how you can make your argument using only the "male body logic" without any comment on how a male like yourself is chosen when clearly unable or unwilling to protect his woman unless she remains "in ratio". If you further your research I believe you will find that people's appearance changes as they age due to not being the strongest anymore to reproduce. So, does that mean that the male will just keep exchanging his older "out of ratio" wife for a younger "in ration" wife and continue to reproduce even though with age his sperm is less potent?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

desperado said:


> BTW, I am quite sure that your wife repels you just as you are.



denial through attack, nice


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

"One option is to find a lower status man that your physical imperfections are acceptable to him."

"The other is to find a way to regain at least some of your former physical condition. You haven't stated your medical issue, so I'm not exactly sure how to advise here on that. Check with your doctor.", ATHOLK QUOTE


You are kidding right? Find a lower status man? Physical IMPERFECTIONS? WOW! somebody did a number on you. I "stand firm" that those who can judge others physical imperfections do not feel very good about themselves, are afraid of aging, or believe they are better than others. 

When you state ways for me to "regain former physical condition" yet are unable to advise, it peaks my curiosity about where you obtained your bariatric medical degree?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

you obviously want someone on here to say being overweight shouldn't be a problem and that your husband is a shallow jerk so you can feel better about yourself and have some comforting confirmation that he is the problem, not you.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

To all of the men and women out there who have replied with sane comments, I thank you. When or even if I do lose the weight it will be driven by the support and loving behavior of those who with all of their own IMPERFECTIONS can see others as fallable and human. Those who understand that after you impregnate a woman, get her offspring, and feel "fittest among men" that you may still want to have a conversation with her. Although, there is the slim chance that they may not want to have a conversation with you.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> you obviously want someone on here to say being overweight shouldn't be a problem and that your husband is a shallow jerk so you can feel better about yourself and have some comforting confirmation that he is the problem, not you.


Why are you so angry with those of us wanting respect for who we are and not what we look like. I never insinuated that the weight was my husbands doing or that the lack of weight loss makes him the problem.

I do find it rather offensive to determine what I am looking for in my posts. I am hoping for rational conversation not more barbs. I am quite able to take responsibility for my plight however, I did not carry this weight until after the birth of my daughter and my health deteriorated. One said that a mastectomy or accident is not a fair comparison yet failed to inquire what my dilema was. I have been very thin and beautiful to the point that every man from 15-80 would ask me to marry him. I was at a club at a young age (fake ID) and I always looked older) I had men dropping at my feet (I guess I was weight/hip ratio correct). I walked by a heavy not so asthetically beautiful woman and her boyfriend/husband enjoying themselves, he very affectionate towards her. I later walked by when she was alone and she said "you are so lucky to be so beautiful and have all of the men want you" my reply was "no, you are the lucky one. At least you know that your man loves you for you, I never know I am loved only lusted" I state my case. Women can't win thin or fat.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> you obviously want someone on here to say being overweight shouldn't be a problem and that your husband is a shallow jerk so you can feel better about yourself and have some comforting confirmation that he is the problem, not you.



Are you willing to state your age and education level?


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

martino said:


> We are all biologically designed to do a lot of things, that means something but not everything. Then comes our interaction with the environment which sharpens who we become and what we believe in over time. Should my wife become extremely over weight, or lose a breast to cancer or anything like that, no way I would leave. She's a great mother, great wife and a top student in school. I've also had friends that have trophy wives that are dumb as a box of rocks. Their beauty had become the only real thing they had going for them, and I thought how sad. Sure if I were her dating her as her husband did I would enjoy her beauty and her flesh but then I would have to talk to her. Stupid people are far more unattractive than ugly people to me. The mind is by far the most sexy.


You are a breathe of fresh air, obviously educated and compassionate. I do so appreciated knowing that these men exist !


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Atholk said:


> By demanding your husband to just accept you for what you are, you are basically asking him to _not react to you like a man_. How is he meant to even do that? And even if he did stop reacting to you like a man, would that really be acceptable to you? Right now he's still interested in you. When he _gives up_ and accepts you will never change, isn't it really just _over_ between you on some level?
> 
> Men desiring beautiful and height/weight proportional mates aren't being shallow at all. It's exactly what we are biologically designed and driven to do. The actual desirable weight range can be higher or lower, but worldwide there is a common agreement on the 0.7 waist to hip ratio as being attractive. The body logic behind this is that women of this body shape have the greatest success chances at successful pregnancy. What's good for making babies = what is sexy. Wives underestimate physical fitness at their peril, men are deeply deeply driven for attractive mates.
> 
> ...



I would like to respond to the last two sentences of your second to last paragraph:

"There is no quick fix. Repeat no quick fix. But it's possible to work hard over 1-2-3 years and regain much of lost youthful beauty. Not all of course, we'll all never be 22 again, I'm talking about aging well here."

Do you know what a dicotomy is? Regaining lost youthful beauty...................aging well?

For those unfamiliar with a dicotomy it is similiar to talking out both sides of your mouth.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Atholk said:


> Don't misunderstand, I do see biological attraction as one factor among many in what makes a marriage work. And certainly high intelligence is sexy as well.
> 
> But then... smart people = smart babies = sexy
> 
> ...


I do find it interseting (in the biological sense of course, LOL ) that a man who makes a statement (Atholk) that is easily argued in a higher mental and mature capacity, (Martino) is eager to succumb to the opposing position (Atholk states to Martino's comments, "don't misunderstand me") and compliments what he knows is the stronger and more fearless man on his "avatar" but if it had been a woman making the argument, my humble guess, is that it would have been met with cruel superiority. I guess the tribal hierarchy of the fittest still exsists......the weak follow the lead of the fit.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Desperado, I truly understand your position, although obviously superficial individuals do not. No matter what you look like or what you weigh, you and your husband took those same marriage vows. I highly doubt that your spouse is perfect, and I am certain that he has his own imperfections, as does every human being. 

When someone has a problem, whatever it may be, they need positive reinforcement, not a slew of negativity. I have discovered that works much better than judgement and criticism. Compassion and empathy go a long way, and that is the reason I almost always choose to use that approach. A person's weight should not define that person, as no one that I know of enjoys being overweight.

Take care of YOU and shame on your critics.

(((HUGS)))

FZ1


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

"The body logic behind this is that women of this body shape have the greatest success chances at successful pregnancy. "

And did you know that women who walk in the most sexy manner are the least fertile? So perhaps what attracts is not necessarily going to increase chances of a successful pregnancy, at least not right away. 

I really think that going to a biological basis or an evolutionary basis denies the fact that we HAVE evolved. Men aren't hitting women over the head and taking them off to their caves. Men make decisions to marry and to commit and this is with the full knowledge that the woman they marry is going to change over time. Women know the same thing about their man. 

My husband is I guess what some would say is overweight. Somehow I just don't see it. 

But I do find myself more attracted to him when his beard is trimmed neatly. 

So looks matter. However, I don't find myself unattracted to him when his beard is long and messy. The baseline is still that of attraction.

If he became really overweight, perhaps my baseline would drop. I don't know. It wouldn't mean I wouldn't love him or stay with him. But it really is nice to be attracted to your spouse. It feels good to WANT them in that way. It is easy, for one thing. When physical attraction drops or goes away, you'd have to put more effort in to want to have sex, for instance. Afterall, it is easier to be turned on by someone you're attracted to.

If we were all simply brains without bodies, I could see arguing that the body shouldn't matter. But it does. We are encased in bodies and we respond to what our senses deliver. That isn't shallow. It is simply acknowledging the truth.

All that said, it is not acceptable for a husband or a wife to make the overweight spouse feel bad about how they are at the moment. Encouraging them to lose weight and to get healthy would be a good thing because you'd obviously want to have a long and happy relationship with them and everyone knows that carrying too much weight invites a lot of other health-related problems. 

Further though, I think trying to maintain a sane weight should be an individual's responsibility and trying to remain attractive to your spouse is a part of marriage. So there is responsibility on both sides.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> the comparisons you made to breast cancer and disfigurement due to accidents are not the same. weight is controlable, may take a medicinal approach but there are things you can do, one of them is finding someone who likes full figured women. gaining 70 pounds and keeping it for 9 years, i would expect my wife to repel me if i did that


Exactly, weight is controllable for 99% of people, sure there are like 1% who have a truly medical reason that its impossible to lose weight. That's not my opinion, that's fact. 1% of all obese people are for medical reasons, 99% are because they eat too much and/or exercise too little.

My wife was 117 lbs when we got married, 3 kids and 5 abdominal surgeries later she's around 158, about 40 lbs gained in 10 years.

Does that bother me? Absolutely not, she's still a healthy woman and not obese and she is still extremely sexy to me. If it got to the point she was pushing 200 lbs would it bother me? Most likely.

Just like I think it should bother her if I got to like 220 lbs or something.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

desperado said:


> Hmmmm, I have heard alot of "opinion" and alot of what some must consider to be "medical science", but this qoute shows a complete failure at understanding the analogy but an assuption (and we all know what that does) that all can lose weight out of free will. Believe me friend, no woman wants to be fat and if a small amount of research is done you will find that there are a multitude of medical, biological, and psychological reasons that some people cannot lose weight. Love is an action not a feeling. To love is to act toward others as you would want to be treated if in the same situation. You would think that all of your anger be directed at your own inadequacies vs. being a bully towards the woman you vowed to protect, honor, through better and worse. I am clear that we only are angry at others "issues" when we don't feel very good about ourselves.


I don't know you or your situation, so don't take this as saying I'm talking about you.

However, you are wrong, a "little research" proved that 1% of obese humans are for medical reasons, or 1 in 100. The other 99% are because they eat too much and/or don't exercise enough, period.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

desperado: After reading through all of this thread you appear like the crazy defensive lady who just attacks anyone and everyone who doesn't happen to agree with them.

For that I'm sure you'll attack me and call into question my mental capacities, my age, maturity, education background, etc just as you have everyone else.

However, you have appeared to be the one with a lack of maturity so far on this thread, as soon as ANYONE doesn't agree with you you go on the attack and question everything about that person and don't stick with the topic. I've seen you question people's age, maturity, intelligence, education, etc. You are going off the "deep end".

You have said one thing that I agree with, love is an action not an emotion, I actually like to say love is a choice, not an emotion. So we agree since a choice is an action.

However, for that same reason if something about your spouse that they can work on or fix, and they either choose not to or don't follow through with it, etc. You might just CHOOSE not to be loving to them anymore.

For instance, if your husband was a verbally abusive [email protected]$$, you would expect him to change that action or you would choose to stop loving him.

If your husband was completely emotionally disconnected from you and was just like a "room mate", you might want that to change or you might choose to stop being loving to him.

Well, sorry, but while women are emotional creatures, men are physical creatures (blanket statement and there are some exceptions). If a spouse gains a lot of weight and has the ability to lose it but chooses not to, then why blame their spouse for not liking the situation?

That's like blaming the wife of a man who completely stops helping her around the house.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

foolz1 said:


> Desperado, I truly understand your position, although obviously superficial individuals do not. No matter what you look like or what you weigh, you and your husband took those same marriage vows. I highly doubt that your spouse is perfect, and I am certain that he has his own imperfections, as does every human being.
> 
> When someone has a problem, whatever it may be, they need positive reinforcement, not a slew of negativity. I have discovered that works much better than judgement and criticism. Compassion and empathy go a long way, and that is the reason I almost always choose to use that approach. A person's weight should not define that person, as no one that I know of enjoys being overweight.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. I love it when men comment on a womans weight or rights of her body when they cannot ever have the experience. I do believe that one should not ever, ever, comment on something they cannot or have not experienced. I will keep taking care and a lot of my motivation comes from your comments.

Blessings to you !


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> desperado: After reading through all of this thread you appear like the crazy defensive lady who just attacks anyone and everyone who doesn't happen to agree with them.
> 
> For that I'm sure you'll attack me and call into question my mental capacities, my age, maturity, education background, etc just as you have everyone else.
> 
> ...



I am moved by your response. No, I am not crazy, just hurt. I do believe that genetics, depression, medical problems, etc. leave losing weight either difficult or unatainable. With that said, my husband is disconnected and has been for years hence food became a friend. To all of those who are nasty in there response I do feel that a strong response is valid not crazy. My husband is so skiny the first time we where intimate and I touched his hips it literally scared me. He has a lot of other issues that I do not care to document. I do believe in my threads but I am also willing to take into consideration any comments left that are not mean and spiteful. I am a highly educated, professional, successfual woman who has built her own business while living with a "room mate" and raising a daughter with a cronic illness. I know struggle every day to comfort my daughter as my husband became verbally abusive towards her and I made him move out. I suppose that we are all wrong in our threads as weight is a very small part of our worlds of struggle to make it. It would be nice however, to have a man understand that for better or for worse is no joke and the words should not be spoken if there are stipulations. I promise you that I understand that I don't exercise enough but I can't due to cronic pain. I understand that my eating for emotional reasons is my responsibility and losing weight, and being attractive, and holding up my end of the bargain is my responsibility. It is sad that those responding to my threads in a spiteful manner are themselves obsessed with the weight issue as well. I guess we all have our opinions but those that would be repelled by his wife if she was heavy (fat) is a sad state of affairs. I do care and respect opinions other than mine if the debate is within the limits of respect. I also am defensive so I apologize to all whom I have been angry with. I do see my anger in my threads but anger is a secondary emotion in which there is always another feeling driving it, i.e. hurt, shame, defensiveness, etc. Thank you for your post. I will try to listen more and be "crazy" less.

BTW, I love how one Japanese man said about love, "my wife is my air and I cannot breathe without air"


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

What do you mean, desperado. That men cannot gain weight?


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

desperado said:


> I would like to start by thanking you for your response. In answer to your analysis, "yes" I am defensive. Defensive is to defend and when my spirity, soul, and core self is attacked and rejected I believe it is human nature to defend.
> 
> Yes, mine is medical however, this is not the issue. The question is, what if your wife had to have a mastectomy (a breast removed secondary to cancer) or her face was ruined in a terrible car accident? What if she lost a limb?
> 
> ...



I do not believe this response to be crazy or over the edge. I gave thanks to the response and took responsibility for my own fat yet I do not like it when people are mean.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

dobo said:


> What do you mean, desperado. That men cannot gain weight?


I am not sure that I understand the question?


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

desperado said:


> I am moved by your response. No, I am not crazy, just hurt. I do believe that genetics, depression, medical problems, etc. leave losing weight either difficult or unatainable.


Ok, as long as you can agree that these "genetics/medical problems" account for about 1% and not even a decent proportion of obese humans. The depression one is a catch 22, is it the depression causing the eating/obesity or the obesity causing the depression? If its the latter then still "fixable".



> With that said, my husband is disconnected and has been for years hence food became a friend.


You obviously want him to change this, so why would it be so wrong for him to want you to change your weight to be more healthy?



> To all of those who are nasty in there response I do feel that a strong response is valid not crazy.


Sorry, but I read the whole thread, and I wouldn't have said what I did above if I thought anyone was being "nasty" to you. Even if I don't agree with all of their posts or think their posts had validity, doesn't mean they were being nasty. They were giving you possible reasons why men are physical creatures (which is generally true).



> My husband is so skiny the first time we where intimate and I touched his hips it literally scared me. He has a lot of other issues that I do not care to document.


You can not change anyone but yourself. There is zero you can do about your husbands physical features or his actions. You can only change yourself, your self worth/image, your health, and your REACTIONs to his actions. So many people go into a marriage thinking they can change their spouse into who they want them to be, but that is IMPOSSIBLE. You can only change you, your spouse can only change him/herself.



> I am a highly educated, professional, successfual woman who has built her own business


Good for you, but this has as little to do with the topic at hand as you asking others what their education background is, or their age. I can say I'm the smartest man alive, but how would that change/add to my point on this thread? Being an educated, professional, successful woman can be done if you are healthy or obese, so it has nothing to do with this topic at all.



> It would be nice however, to have a man understand that for better or for worse is no joke and the words should not be spoken if there are stipulations.


See, right back to "its the man's fault". You are mad at him for not fulfilling the part of the marriage vow that says "for better or worse" but maybe a man would see a spouse's weight gain and refussal to drop the weight as breaking the vow that says "to love and to cherish". Cherish is synomous with respect. Maybe the man isn't feeling loved, cherished, or respected since the man is a physical creature?



> I promise you that I understand that I don't exercise enough but I can't due to cronic pain.


Chronic pain where? legs? back? arms? There are exercises that can work all parts of the body that wouldn't aggrivate any pre-existing injury. Your doctor or a physical trainer can help you find these specific exercises.



> I guess we all have our opinions but those that would be repelled by his wife if she was heavy (fat) is a sad state of affairs. I do care and respect opinions other than mine if the debate is within the limits of respect. I also am defensive so I apologize to all whom I have been angry with. I do see my anger in my threads but anger is a secondary emotion in which there is always another feeling driving it, i.e. hurt, shame, defensiveness, etc. Thank you for your post. I will try to listen more and be "crazy" less.


Again, not saying I agree or disagree with the opinions of those you are referring to on this thread, but the only one I saw getting disrespectful was you. They stated their opinions on the subject and you attacked them for it.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

You stated that men cannot experience something and therefore had no right to comment on it, but you didn't say what it was. If it is child birth, sure I guess. But if it is keeping weight on after gaining it FOR WHATEVER REASON, men can certainly understand and experience that.

Gotta say, I also find it odd that you quote yourself and comment on what you've written.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

dobo said:


> You stated that men cannot experience something and therefore had no right to comment on it, but you didn't say what it was. If it is child birth, sure I guess. But if it is keeping weight on after gaining it FOR WHATEVER REASON, men can certainly understand and experience that.
> 
> Gotta say, I also find it odd that you quote yourself and comment on what you've written.


Been there done that as a man. I "ballooned" up to 205 lbs as a 5'9" man. It scared me enough to join the gym again and get to work. I can happily say that with eating better and working out 5 times a week for the last 6 months I'm back down to 175-180 range (good for my 'build' and height).


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Desparado, I guess I am not quite as critical, judgemental and shallow as some people are. You and your husband took wedding vows, which traditionally include notions of affection such as love, honor, comfort, keep, faithfulness, and *unconditionality* such as, for richer or for poorer, *in sickness and in health*, and permanence, i.e., as long as we both shall live, until death do us part. I have never heard one that includes "this marriage vow becomes null and void should you gain weight", although I'm sure some probably exist.

People obviously do not enjoy being overweight. If they did, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc., etc., would not be getting wealthier and wealthier, while overweight people are trying almost anything, in hopes that it will help with their weight issues. Being overweight isn't healthy, but neither are a lot of other things that create addictions and medical conditions that cause weight and health problems. 

Being or becoming overweight is at epidemic proportions, especially in the United States. Some of this is accredited to health issues, others conclude that some people choose to overeat, just as other people choose to drink, gamble and use drugs, etc. Overeating can be an addiction, just as is substance abuse. Virtually anything can become addictive.

_About two-thirds of adults in the United States are overweight, and almost one-third are obese, according to data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) 2001 to 2004. This fact sheet presents statistics on the prevalence of overweight and obesity in the United States, as well as the health risks, mortality rates, and economic costs associated with these conditions. To understand these statistics, it is necessary to know how overweight and obesity are defined and measured, something this publication addresses. This fact sheet also explains why statistics from different sources may not match. ~ _U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

People have addictions for numerous reasons. This should prove that it isn't a conscious choice for most, as some of the causes really are genetic.

People who actually believe that they could go up to any drunk, crack addict or any other kind of addict and give them their "two cents" and they would automatically give up their addiction, just because they criticized them, is simply...naive, uneducated in health issues and possibly out of touch with reality.

In a nutshell, "don't throw stones, if you live in a glass house."


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

foolz1 said:


> Desparado, I guess I am not quite as critical, judgemental and shallow as some people are. You and your husband took wedding vows, which traditionally include notions of affection such as love, honor, comfort, keep, faithfulness, and *unconditionality* such as, for richer or for poorer, *in sickness and in health*, and permanence, i.e., as long as we both shall live, until death do us part. I have never heard one that includes "this marriage vow becomes null and void should you gain weight", although I'm sure some probably exist.


I already said it above, but "to love and to cherish" is in the vows, and cherish is synonymous with respect. Maybe the man doesn't feel respected if his spouse becomes obese? I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this, just saying that you want to use wedding vows and twist them, so can I. Especially since "in sickness and in health" is referring to sicknesses that aren't your fault like diseases, not obesity that, whether you want to label it an "addiction" or not, is still a choice for 99% of obese people.



> People obviously do not enjoy being overweight. If they did, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc., etc., would not be getting wealthier and wealthier, while overweight people are trying almost anything, in hopes that it will help with their weight issues. Being overweight isn't healthy, but neither are a lot of other things that create addictions and medical conditions that cause weight and health problems.


I don't think anyone has said that people enjoy being overweight. You say that overweight people "are trying almost anything", I say not true for most. If they were trying "almost anything" then they would be working out more and eating less. This isn't some Einstein level math or physics problem to solve that is hard to figure out. Eat less, work out more. Now, the hard part is the will power to actually DO those two things.



> Being or becoming overweight is at epidemic proportions, especially in the United States. Some of this is accredited to health issues, others conclude that some people choose to overeat, just as other people choose to drink, gamble and use drugs, etc. Overeating can be an addiction, just as is substance abuse. Virtually anything can become addictive.


I can buy overeating as an addiction, I'm not 100% sold on it, but can buy into the idea. However, that doesn't mean it still isn't a choice. An alcoholic isn't forced to drink, they are still making a conscience decision. If it was an "addiction" or a genetic thing, then why haven't humans always been as obese as they are now? Why is it so much more prevalent in America vs other nations? I think its because we choose to spend our abundant resources on food instead of getting out and exersise more. American's wouldn't be any more "genetically" predisposed to obesity than any other race of people but yet our obesity rates are MUCH higher than anywhere else. Why? because we choose to eat fast food all the time, not because we are addicted to eating.



> People have addictions for numerous reasons. This should prove that it isn't a conscious choice for most, as some of the causes really are genetic.
> 
> People who actually believe that they could go up to any drunk, crack addict or any other kind of addict and give them their "two cents" and they would automatically give up their addiction, just because they criticized them, is simply...naive, uneducated in health issues and possibly out of touch with reality.
> 
> In a nutshell, "don't throw stones, if you live in a glass house."



1. Show me the "addicted to food" gene before you say "this should prove that it isn't a conscious choice for most, as some of the causes really are genetic." It still is a choice even if you are addicted, the difference is will power. My uncle was an alcoholic but stayed dry for the last 15 years of his life. He was addicted but he made the choice to never drink again, so please don't try to say "well they have no choice, they have to drink/do drugs/eat too much" because it makes you look not as smart as you think you are.

2. I think you are naive to believe that someone who is addicted to something has no choice. I've been addicted to online gaming in the past, I broke that addiction. Many alcoholics break their addiction and stop drinking, same with drug addicts. I can go on. Is it easy? No, but it is MOST CERTAINLY a choice.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Brighterlight, great post. I'm going to share your ideas with my husband because he is where you were... though as I said in my previous post, I just don't see him as overweight. I mean, I know he is and I can see him struggle with his size, but most of the time, it just doesn't register with me. It is weird. And maybe I'm part of the reason he doesn't do anything about it. He doesn't need to to please me. 

I guess that's something else to think about. Maybe I'm an enabler. Maybe I should care more about his weight and help him do something about it. I know he'd feel better about himself and he'd feel better in general.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Atholk is missing the point. Yes, there is a male preference for a type of shape with a hip-to-waist ratio, blah, blah, blah. That does not mean everything else is UNATTRACTIVE!! It's a preference! I like blue; does that mean I hate green, pink, and yellow? Nope, I might like them a lot, too, just not as much as blue if I am given a choice. I won't be unhappy with yellow! 

And wikipedia is not considered a scholarly resource. I've seen the studies on reputable sites; use those if you want to cite something!!


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

> I don't think anyone has said that people enjoy being overweight. You say that overweight people "are trying almost anything", I say not true for most. If they were trying "almost anything" then they would be working out more and eating less. This isn't some Einstein level math or physics problem to solve that is hard to figure out. Eat less, work out more. Now, the hard part is the will power to actually DO those two things.


I know plenty of people that have truly tried several methods, even surgically, to lose weight, but, for one reason or another, have been unsuccessful, and I also realize that eating less and exercise is very beneficial to good health. (do you actually believe that an addiction is simply a "willpower" issue, though?) 



> I can buy overeating as an addiction, I'm not 100% sold on it, but can buy into the idea. However, that doesn't mean it still isn't a choice. An alcoholic isn't forced to drink, they are still making a conscience decision. If it was an "addiction" or a genetic thing, then why haven't humans always been as obese as they are now? Why is it so much more prevalent in America vs other nations? I think its because we choose to spend our abundant resources on food instead of getting out and exersise more. American's wouldn't be any more "genetically" predisposed to obesity than any other race of people but yet our obesity rates are MUCH higher than anywhere else. Why? because we choose to eat fast food all the time, not because we are addicted to eating.


No one in the US, that I am aware of, is "forced" to eat fast food, however, it seems that it is the "easiest and quickest" alternative to cooking at home. (BTW, I cook homemade food, almost every day. (And no, I am not Martha Stewart )

If addictions were so easy to "break," why do you believe there are SO many '"interventions" and support groups; not to mention, recovery clinics out there? 



> 1. Show me the "addicted to food" gene before you say "this should prove that it isn't a conscious choice for most, as some of the causes really are genetic." It still is a choice even if you are addicted, the difference is will power. My uncle was an alcoholic but stayed dry for the last 15 years of his life. He was addicted but he made the choice to never drink again, so please don't try to say "well they have no choice, they have to drink/do drugs/eat too much" because it makes you look not as smart as you think you are.


 I never proclaimed to be "as smart as I think I am." Thankfully, I fully realize that I am human, therefore, I try never to assume anything.


> 2. I think you are naive to believe that someone who is addicted to something has no choice. I've been addicted to online gaming in the past, I broke that addiction. Many alcoholics break their addiction and stop drinking, same with drug addicts. I can go on. Is it easy? No, but it is MOST CERTAINLY a choice.


 I never stated that they have no choice, and I never said there was a specified gene for this, but, being overweight, certainly is a reality though, in many homes, with no social or economic boundaries.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

foolz1 said:


> I know plenty of people that have truly tried several methods, even surgically, to lose weight, but, for one reason or another, have been unsuccessful, and I also realize that eating less and exercise is very beneficial to good health. (do you actually believe that an addiction is simply a "willpower" issue, though?)


1. I'm sorry, but if they still haven't lost "the weight", then they haven't "tried everything" unless you happen to know a crap load of people who happen to fall into the 1% of obese humans that is medical. They have truly not tried eating healthy or exercising enough, or the weight would have fallen off. Its not that difficult of an equation to figure out, burn more calories than you eat, and you lose weight. 

2. Yes, I believe an addiction is a willpower issue. If it was not then NO ONE would EVER be able to kick an addiction. The people who don't kick the addiction simply lack the willpower. Like I said, the will power part of these things is the toughest thing by far to overcome. The will power to start exercising and eating right is 100 times harder than actually doing it and actually losing the weight.




> If addictions were so easy to "break," why do you believe there are SO many '"interventions" and support groups; not to mention, recovery clinics out there?


Because people lack the will power. If it wasn't a will power/choice issue and no one has a choice then no one in the history of addictions would have ever gotten over the addiction. You have to see the logic in that right?



> I never stated that they have no choice, and I never said there was a specified gene for this,


If you say they have a choice, then you agree with me that its just a matter of having the will power to make that choice...glad I could convince you.

You did say it was genetic.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Are you happy with the way you look?

I read the whole thread. Lot of anger and resentment - but I can't shake the notion that a good portion of the anger and resentment is with yourself.

My 2 cents is that your insecurity, discomfort - call it what you will, isn't about being fat, it's about being accepted. 

You point out the following: You were Playboy hot, you are intelligent, you are an accomplished, successful woman - but none of those things has won you the unconditional love (or acceptance) that you eloquently describe.

You outline that despite all of those things, regardless of how attractive you were or how successful you became, it was never good enough for the ex-husband, current husband etc. 
That takes it's toll on one's self-perception. So what about you? Do you honestly accept yourself or are you trying to meet some intangible expectation for yourself or others?

For the record, I am pretty shallow ...


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Atholk, I have read many of your posts, and I am surprised by how much your words reasonate with me. I actually ought to say "reasonate" and not resonate, because your thoughts are well arrived at, and even on occasion cited. It's a nice change in a forum so flooded with "opinion".
Keep it up Atholk. Oh, and I'm sorry to read that you're so "shallow" and a "meanie" to boot, but on the brighter side at least you're not "arrogant" like I am. I guess we all have to be "something", because we can't possibly be right. Here's to killing the messenger. CHEERS.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

I realize that a certain number of people in any group of individuals, are going to have opinions that differ from a certain number of others. That is why they have juries, the House of Representatives, the Senate, etc. 

I have also seen, in my lifetime, studies that say, for example: "Coffee is bad for you, then a couple of years later, coffee is good for you." I am also aware that there have been many cases, when physicians and scientists, have discovered that a certain condition is _sometimes, usually, or often_ genetic. I have a condition exactly like that. 

Why am I arguing that food is an addiction, which may or may not be genetic, when I am neither obese, nor even overweight? Probably because I hate to see someone get beat up for something that is already a source of pain for them. It reminds me of school children who unrelentingly torment another child who doesn't quite fit into the "norm." 

*-This is just my opinion *


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

If you see what I've been saying as "beating up" or "tormenting" someone then you haven't read a word that I've typed.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

dobo said:


> You stated that men cannot experience something and therefore had no right to comment on it, but you didn't say what it was. If it is child birth, sure I guess. But if it is keeping weight on after gaining it FOR WHATEVER REASON, men can certainly understand and experience that.
> 
> Gotta say, I also find it odd that you quote yourself and comment on what you've written.


I was showing which thread I was talking about not qouting myself or talking to myself, if you read it correctly you would have understood this. But thank you ever so much for your addition to this barage of insults.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> I already said it above, but "to love and to cherish" is in the vows, and cherish is synonymous with respect. Maybe the man doesn't feel respected if his spouse becomes obese? I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this, just saying that you want to use wedding vows and twist them, so can I. Especially since "in sickness and in health" is referring to sicknesses that aren't your fault like diseases, not obesity that, whether you want to label it an "addiction" or not, is still a choice for 99% of obese people.
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone has said that people enjoy being overweight. You say that overweight people "are trying almost anything", I say not true for most. If they were trying "almost anything" then they would be working out more and eating less. This isn't some Einstein level math or physics problem to solve that is hard to figure out. Eat less, work out more. Now, the hard part is the will power to actually DO those two things.
> ...



I can actually state that I am sorry I tried to reason with your ealier post and form some sort of mutual understanding. I cannot understand why you rip each post that is unappealing to you. I would have to say that you failed to see the attempt at mutual respect and continued to tear into others. Your reasoning about addiction is terribly archaic and flawed. BTW: here is some data on weight loss issues for people, primarily women. This information is taken from the following MD's:

About the author

Leigh Erin Connealy, M.D. has specialized in Integrative Medicine for over twenty years, using conventional and natural methods to determine and discover the "root of the cause" in her clinic, Center for New Medicine in Irvine, California, each and every day. Many people come in to the clinic from all over the world with severe chronic illnesses that conventional medical protocols have been unsuccessful treating. She realized early on that she can truly change lives through education as well as treatment protocols. 
Leigh Erin Connealy, M.D. and her medical staff strives to look at the whole person while exploring the effects and relationships among nutrition, psychological and social factors, environmental effects and personal attunement. 

Syndrome X

Syndrome X is a metabolic disorder that affects one out of ever four Americans and can lead to cardiovascular disease and diabetes if left untreated. Syndrome X is chiefly characterized by insulin resistance. When food is consumed by a healthy individual, the body releases insulin to escort glucose into the cells where it can be burned efficiently. When insulin resistance is present, the cells fail to recognize the glucose and deny it entry. The glucose, without a destination, is left to build up in the bloodstream. The liver detects that the cells are not getting enough glucose and pumps more out to remedy the situation, further clogging the bloodstream with sugar. Eventually all of this glucose makes its way to the liver where it is converted to fat and stored throughout the body.

While weight gain due to insulin resistance is not necessarily caused by overeating, insulin resistance is caused by obesity, lack of exercise and diets high in carbohydrates. If you suspect that you might be insulin resistant, see your doctor for a simple test. Early detection could not only be the key to your weight loss, but also important in avoiding cardiovascular disease and diabetes in the future.

3. Stress

Are you plagued by stress on a daily basis? Even little stressors have the ability to add unwanted pounds to your body, thanks to a physiological response called "fight or flight". Back in the days of our ancestral hunters and gathers, fight or flight was necessary for survival. When facing down an angry bear, the body would increase its production of the hormones adrenaline and cortisol to provide the hunter extra energy to battle his prey. After the immediate danger was over, the body would stop producing adrenaline but would continue to pump out cortisol. The cortisol served to stimulate insulin release and maintain the blood sugar levels resulting in an intense hunger. All of this was necessary for our ancient ancestor's survival, however today we rarely have the need for such drastic responses.

While the type of stressors that we face in our everyday lives hardly compare to facing down a grizzly bear, our body's response is exactly the same. Every time your workload becomes too much to handle or your children drive you off of the deep end, your body responds as if it was in mortal peril. Experiencing stressful events on a daily basis means that your adrenal glands could be pumping out the calming hormone cortisol on a regular basis.

After a stressful event subsides, the first thing that many of us do is reach for comfort food. This makes sense since the cortisol pumping through your body is effectively telling you to eat. The problem is, going back to its ancient roots, the fight or flight response was intended for physical threats in which massive amounts of energy were expended in order to survive. That intense hunger was supposed to trigger the hunter to replenish his body after the fight was over. Today's stressors however, rarely involve physical activity. This means that the food you consume in response to a stressful event is not necessary. Your body experienced no event for which it needs to be replenished. The calories that you are consuming are not needed.

The simplest way to overcome this type of "overeating" is to find a way to manage your stress more effectively. When you feel it coming on, go for a walk or engage in some other type of exercise. Since your body is expecting a physical response, give it what it wants in a healthy way. You will find that your sanity can be restored quickly by exercising. If you find that managing your stress on your own seems overwhelming, make an appointment with a trained therapist to discuss stress management tools that can be tailored to your specific needs.

4. Hypothyroidism

Still don't know why you aren't losing weight? Ask your doctor to test your thyroid. The thyroid gland, located at the base of your skull, regulates your body's metabolism. If thyroid hormone levels decrease, everything in your body slows down, a condition called hypothyroidism. As a result, your cells need less energy (calories). While you may feel like you're eating normal, or even less than normal, portions of food, your body will no longer need that much energy to keep going. All of the "extra" calories that you are consuming become stored as fat resulting in weight gain. A simple test can be performed to detect the levels of TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) in your blood stream. Hypothyroidism can be treated by your doctor safely and effectively by supplementing with thyroid hormones.

Obesity is a very complex medical problem in our society and achieving an ideal weight requires a multifaceted approach. These are just four of the many reasons that you might be having difficulty shedding unhealthy pounds. Once you have decided to address this issue, I recommend working with a health care professional who understands the complexities of being overweight and is compassionate to your individual situation and success. Losing weight is not an easy task. If it was, we would all be thin.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Lostandconfused said:


> At the risk of being beat up, may I make one comment to the analogies of addiction. I will add a disclaimer here that I agree EVERY addiction is difficult to beat.
> 
> There is a difference imo in having an addiction to alcohol, online gaming, gambling, (or whatever else you want to throw in the pile) and eating.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
I would like to see an alcoholic succeed if someone where to tell him/her that they were to have two fingers of scotch at 9am, a light beer for lunch, and two fingers at dinner with small sips of wine in between. Alcoholism is proven to have genetic precursors and recovery is about support and now medications not WILL POWER or WHITE KNUCKLING IT!


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Are you happy with the way you look?
> 
> I read the whole thread. Lot of anger and resentment - but I can't shake the notion that a good portion of the anger and resentment is with yourself.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the continued barbs, always helpful. You do not know anything about me so to assume that I feel the need to be accepted is possibly a projection? You see, the kind people of the thread do accept me and the others, well, honestly, do you think I care?


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

foolz1 said:


> I know plenty of people that have truly tried several methods, even surgically, to lose weight, but, for one reason or another, have been unsuccessful, and I also realize that eating less and exercise is very beneficial to good health. (do you actually believe that an addiction is simply a "willpower" issue, though?)
> 
> No one in the US, that I am aware of, is "forced" to eat fast food, however, it seems that it is the "easiest and quickest" alternative to cooking at home. (BTW, I cook homemade food, almost every day. (And no, I am not Martha Stewart )
> 
> ...


I am so glad you are on this thread. I can't help but feel "slightly" LOL attacked by all who have their own anger management issues. I mean addicted to gaming, really.....


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

sisters359 said:


> Atholk is missing the point. Yes, there is a male preference for a type of shape with a hip-to-waist ratio, blah, blah, blah. That does not mean everything else is UNATTRACTIVE!! It's a preference! I like blue; does that mean I hate green, pink, and yellow? Nope, I might like them a lot, too, just not as much as blue if I am given a choice. I won't be unhappy with yellow!
> 
> And wikipedia is not considered a scholarly resource. I've seen the studies on reputable sites; use those if you want to cite something!!


AMEN!
hee hee, wikipedia


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> 1. I'm sorry, but if they still haven't lost "the weight", then they haven't "tried everything" unless you happen to know a crap load of people who happen to fall into the 1% of obese humans that is medical. They have truly not tried eating healthy or exercising enough, or the weight would have fallen off. Its not that difficult of an equation to figure out, burn more calories than you eat, and you lose weight.
> 
> 2. Yes, I believe an addiction is a willpower issue. If it was not then NO ONE would EVER be able to kick an addiction. The people who don't kick the addiction simply lack the willpower. Like I said, the will power part of these things is the toughest thing by far to overcome. The will power to start exercising and eating right is 100 times harder than actually doing it and actually losing the weight.
> 
> ...


I am beginning to sense that you are the one going off the deep end.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

foolz1 said:


> I realize that a certain number of people in any group of individuals, are going to have opinions that differ from a certain number of others. That is why they have juries, the House of Representatives, the Senate, etc.
> 
> I have also seen, in my lifetime, studies that say, for example: "Coffee is bad for you, then a couple of years later, coffee is good for you." I am also aware that there have been many cases, when physicians and scientists, have discovered that a certain condition is _sometimes, usually, or often_ genetic. I have a condition exactly like that.
> 
> ...


Again, thank you. You words are so soothing. I do appreciate you and your kindness and willingness to stick up for the underdog.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

much research shows many reasons why losing weight is difficult or unattainable for women. Another article (pay attention to the genetic part) I also am aware that the majority of obesity is caused by poor eating habits and lack of exercise. I am not in complete denial. Please also note that I put in reasons that are, yes, something that one can overcome.

according to a report by Mintel, at least one in six women is trying to lose weight. If you're losing the battle perhaps it's because of one of the reasons below:

1. Your upbringing Weight problems may be linked to whether you were breast or bottle-fed. According to German research, breastfed babies are less likely to be overweight as they get older.
This could be because they are fed on demand, establishing healthy eating habits, while bottle-fed babies tend to be fed when the mother decides it's time, so the baby may not actually be hungry.
'This could damage the baby's innate eating control ability,' says Dr Susan Jebb, head of nutrition health research at the Medical Research Council in Cambridge.

2. Lying about what you eat Research shows obese people under-report when asked to fill in a food diary. 'People who are overweight have a tendency to kid themselves that they don't eat more than anyone else,' says Dr Wendy Doyle of the British Dieticians Association.
She advises keeping a diary for a week, writing down everything you eat and drink. 'If you can force yourself to be honest, you will probably be surprised at the sheer quantity.'
If someone is obese, then they eat 2,500 calories per day just to stay at this weight. Once this amount is reduced, the weight should come off.

3. Insufficient sleep If you are not losing weight, it may simply be that you're exhausted. Rozalind Gruben, who runs health and nutrition company Health Unlimited, says: 'If you are feeling tired, the chances are you won't exercise, and will have little willpower to resist stimulating and fattening foods. In addition, an exhausted body is crippled in its ability to detoxify or release stored fat.' She advises that you listen to your body signals and try taking more rest.

4. A lack of muscle The more muscle you have, the higher your metabolic rate. Muscle burns 25-33pc more calories than fat.
The best way to increase your muscle mass is to do strength training. Beginners usually find it easiest to follow a course of exercises on machines in a gym. Later, you can follow a programme on your own at home using free weights or your own body weight for resistance. Ideally, you should strength train three times a week, targeting at least eight major muscle groups.

5. An underactive thyroid The job of the thyroid gland is to produce thyroxin, a hormone which can affect your metabolism.
The two most common types of problems that occur with the gland are overactive thyroids (hyperthyroidism) and underactive thyroids (hypothyroidism). It is the latter that can result in weight gain, as it decreases your metabolic rate by 5pc.
Other symptoms include a lack of energy, a slow heartbeat, dry thick skin and a puffy face. Once detected, it can be treated by a thyroid hormone drug which will restore your metabolism to its normal rate.

6. It's in your genes If you're worried that you are gradually growing into the figure of your mother, your fears may be justified.
According to James O. Hill, director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the University of Colorado in Denver: 'With genes, gender and hormones in common, mothers can often provide daughters with a fairly accurate map to their future shape.'
There are three main genetic body shapes or 'somatypes' - ectomorph (naturally long and lean), mesomorph (muscular frame) and endormorph (more rounded appearance).
'Genetically, everyone is dealt a pack of cards - but, ultimately, it's up to you how you play them,' explains nutritionist Penny Hunking. 'There is a lot you can do to counteract genetics - through sensible eating and exercise.'

7. You skip breakfast Studies show that people who eat breakfast are leaner than those who don't. Eating breakfast helps prevent high-fat snacking later in the day.
Penny Hunking recommends starting the day with some cereal and toast with low-fat spread and Marmite. Alternatively try mushrooms and tomatoes on toast, or yoghurt and fresh fruit.
'Eating a high-carbohydrate, low-fat breakfast will kick-start your metabolism and improve your concentration and performance later in the day,' says Hunking.

8. You have 'PCOS' Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS) affects one in ten women. It gets its name from the tiny cysts that form on the ovaries. These are actually a symptom of the condition, not the cause, and are different to ovarian cysts.
Women with PCOS are often overweight and have problems losing weight, particularly around their middle. Other common symptoms include excess body hair, fatigue, period and fertility problems, breast pain and acne.

9. Worrying about weight Distress about being overweight can reduce your body's ability to shed unwanted pounds. Rozalind Gruben says long-term stress exhausts the adrenals. 'These glands produce cortisol and thyroxin, both of which are needed for the releasing of stored fat.'

10. Deficient in nutrients A lack of vital nutrients will result in less energy and, consequently, a greater predisposition to laying down fat. Essential vitamins and minerals for weight loss include B1, B2, B3, B6, C, iron, chromium, zinc and co-enzyme Q10.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Originally Posted by revitalizedhusband
"Chronic pain where? legs? back? arms? There are exercises that can work all parts of the body that wouldn't aggrivate any pre-existing injury. Your doctor or a physical trainer can help you find these specific exercises. "

See, it is this type of approach that has the ability to make one defensive. I am afraid that "chronic pain" is pain that is unmanageable on a daily basis, not a back ache or sore arms. There are no exercises that are safe for my injuries which nobody has inquired about, yet feel informed enough on to prescribe their antedotes. My neurosurgeon, endrocronologist, internal medicine MD, pain management specialist, rheumatologist, and yes, a psychiatrist are all on board managing my situation the most compassionately and best way they know how. I am sorry to say that a "physical trainer" isn't going to prove adequate in this situation. Always look before you leap.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Brighterlight,

I am in no way hurt or offended by your well thought out and obviously caring advice. Blessings to you for being able to share an opinion that may differ from mine in such a kind way. I will definately say that any input, advice, or differing of opinion is always welcome when given in a caring way. Thank you and good for you! Keep up the good work!


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

The Real Cause of Obesity
It's not gluttony. It's genetics. Why our moralizing misses the point.
By Jeffrey Friedman | Newsweek Web Exclusive 
Sep 10, 2009 | Updated: 9:11 a.m. ET Sep 10, 2009
Despite receiving a MacArthur genius award for her work in Alabama "forging an inspiring model of compassionate and effective medical care in one of the most underserved regions of the United States," Regina Benjamin's qualifications to be surgeon general have been questioned. Why? She is overweight. "It tends to undermine her credibility," Dr. Marcia Angell, former editor of The New England Journal of Medicine, said in an interview with ABC News. "I do think at a time when a lot of public-health concern is about the national epidemic of obesity, having a surgeon general who is noticeably overweight raises questions in people's minds." It is not enough, it seems, that the obese must suffer the medical consequences of their weight, consequences that include diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, and that cause nearly 300,000 deaths in the United States each year. They must also suffer the opprobrium heaped on them by people like Angell or Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI), who advised the obese to "Look in the mirror because you are the one to blame." In our society, perhaps no group is more stigmatized than the obese.
The abuse is nothing new, of course. Four hundred years ago, Shakespeare had Prince Hal hurl a barrage of insults at Falstaff, calling him "fat-witted," "horseback-breaker," and a "huge hill of flesh." But Shakespeare had an excuse. In his time essentially nothing was known about the real reasons that people are fat. Today we have no such excuse. Modern medical science has gone a long way toward explaining the causes of obesity, and the bottom line is clear: obesity is not a personal choice. The obese are so primarily as a result of their genes. 
Genetic studies have shown that the particular set of weight-regulating genes that a person has is by far the most important factor in determining how much that person will weigh. The heritability of obesity—a measure of how much obesity is due to genes versus other factors—is about the same as the heritability of height. It's even greater than that for many conditions that people accept as having a genetic basis, including heart disease, breast cancer, and schizophrenia. As nutrition has improved over the past 200 years, Americans have gotten much taller on average, but it is still the genes that determine who is tall or short today. The same is true for weight. Although our high-calorie, sedentary lifestyle contributes to the approximately 10-pound average weight gain of Americans compared to the recent past, some people are more severely affected by this lifestyle than others. That's because they have inherited genes that increase their predisposition for accumulating body fat. Our modern lifestyle is thus a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition for the high prevalence of obesity in our population.
Over the past decade, scientists have identified many of the genes that regulate body weight and have proved that in some instances, different variants of these genes can lead a person to be fat or thin. These genes underlie a weight-regulating system that is remarkably precise. The average person takes in a million or more calories per year, maintaining within a narrow range over the course of decades. This implies that the body balances calorie consumption with calorie expenditure, and does with a precision greater than 99.5 percent. Even the most vigilant calorie counter couldn't compete, if for no other reason than that the calorie counts on food labels are often off by 10 percent or more.
The genes that control food intake and metabolism act to keep weight in a stable range by creating a biological force that resists weight change in either direction. When weight is gained, hunger is reduced. When weight is lost, the unconscious drive to eat is stimulated and acts to return weight to the starting point. Moreover, the greater the amount of weight that is lost, the greater the sense of hunger that develops. Thus, when the obese lose large amounts of weight by conscious effort, their bodies fight back even more strongly by increasing hunger and reducing energy expenditure. If you think it is hard to lose 10 to 20 pounds (and it is), try to imagine what it would feel like to lose many tens or even hundreds of pounds.
Anyone who doubts the power of this biologic system should study the case of a young boy in England a few years back. He had a mutation in a critical gene, the one that produces the hormone leptin. Leptin is made by fat tissue and sends a signal informing the brain that there are adequate stores of energy. When leptin drops, appetite increases. Because of a genetic error, this boy could not make this hormone, which left him ravenously hungry all of the time. At age 4 he ate 1,125 calories at a single meal—about half of what a normal adult eats in an entire day. As a result he already weighed 90 pounds and was well on his way to developing diabetes. At the time, his similarly affected cousin was 8 and weighed 200 pounds. After a few leptin injections, the boy's calorie intake dropped to 180 calories per meal, and by the time he was 6 his weight had dropped into the normal range. Nothing changed except the hormone levels: his parents weren't more or less permissive, his snacks did not switch from processed to organic, his willpower was not bolstered. Rather this boy was a victim of a malfunctioning weight-regulating system that led to an uncontrollable drive to eat. This examples illustrates that feeding behavior is a basic drive, similar to thirst and other life-sustaining drives. The key role of leptin and other molecules to control feeding behavior undercuts the common misconception that food intake is largely under voluntary control.
While mutations in the leptin gene like the cases described above are rare, nearly 10 percent of morbidly obese individuals carry defects in genes that regulate food intake, metabolism, and body weight. The evidence further indicates that the rest of the obese population carries genetic alterations in other, as yet unidentified, single genes or combinations of genes (polygenes) interacting with environmental factors. 

So if you are thin, it might be more appropriate for you to thank your own "lean" genes and refrain from stigmatizing the obese. A broad acceptance of the biologic basis of obesity would not only be fair and right, but would also allow us to collectively focus on what is most important—one's health rather than one's weight. There is no evidence that obese individuals need to "normalize" their weight to reap health benefits. In fact, it is not even clear whether there are enduring health benefits to weight loss among obese individuals who do not suffer from diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, or liver disease. What is known is that the obese who do suffer from these conditions receive a disproportionately large benefit from even modest weight loss, which together with exercise and a heart-healthy diet can go a long way toward improving health. 
While research into the biologic system that controls weight is moving toward the development of effective therapies for obesity, we are not there yet. In the meantime we must change our attitudes toward the obese and focus less on appearance and more on health. In their efforts to lose weight they are fighting against their biology. But they also are fighting against a society that wrongly believes that obesity is a personal failing.
Jeffrey M. Friedman, M.D., Ph.D. is the Marilyn M. Simpson professor and head of the Laboratory of Molecular Genetics at The Rockefeller University, and an investigator at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

America’s War on the Overweight

Anti-fat rhetoric is getting nastier than ever. Why our overweight nation hates overweight people.

By Kate Dailey and Abby Ellin | Newsweek Web Exclusive 
Aug 26, 2009 | Updated: 8:08 a.m. ET Aug 26, 2009

Practically the minute President Obama announced Regina M. Benjamin, a zaftig doctor who also has an M.B.A. and is the recipient of a MacArthur "genius grant," as a nominee for the post of Surgeon General, the criticism started.

The attacks were vicious—Michael Karolchyk, owner of a Denver "anti-gym," told Fox News' Neil Cavuto, "Obesity is the No. 1 issue facing our country in terms of the health and wellness, and she has shown not that she was born this way, not that she woke up one day and was obese. She has shown through being lazy, and making poor food choices, that she's obese."

"This is totally disgusting to have some one so big to be advocating health," wrote one YouTube commenter.

The anger about Benjamin wasn't the only example of vitriol hurled at the overweight. Cintra Wilson, style columnist for The New York Times, recently wrote a column so disdainful of JCPenney's plus-size mannequins that the Times' ombsbudman later wrote that he could read "a virtual sneer" coming through her prose. A NEWSWEEK post about Glamour’s recent plus-size model (in fact, a normal-sized woman with a bit of a belly roll) had several commenters lashing out at the positive reaction the model was receiving. "This model issue is being used as a smoke screen to justify self-destructive lifestyle that cost me more money in health care costs," one wrote. Heath guru MeMe Roth has made a career out of bashing fat—she called size 12 American Idol Jordan Sparks a "bad role model" on national television, and derided size 2 Jennifer Love Hewitt for having cellulite. (That Roth is considered something of an extremist doesn't stop the media attention.) Virtually any news article about weight that is posted online garners a slew of comments from readers expressing disgust that people let their weight get so out of control. The specific target may change, but the words stay the same: Self-destructive. Disgusting. Disgraceful. Shameful. While the debate rages on about obesity and the best ways to deal with it, the attitudes Americans have toward those with extra pounds are only getting nastier. Just why do Americans hate fat people so much?
Fat bias is nothing new. "Public outrage at other people's obesity has a lot to do with America from the turn of the 20th century to about World War I," says Deborah Levine, assistant professor of health policy and management at Providence College.

The rise of fat hatred is often seen as connected to the changing American workplace; in the early 20th century, companies began to offer snacks to employees, white-collar jobs became more prominent, and fewer people exercised. As thinness became rarer, says Peter N. Stearns, author of Fat History: Bodies and Beauty in the Modern West and professor of history at George Mason University, it was more prized, and conversely, fatness was more maligned.

At the same time, people also paid a lot of attention to President Taft's girth; while Taft was large, he wasn't all that much heavier than earlier presidents. Newspapers questioned how his weight would affect diplomacy and solicited the funniest "fat Taft" joke. "This [period] is also when you get ready-to-wear clothing," says Levine. "For the first time, [people were] buying clothes in a certain size, and that encourages a comparison amongst other people." Actuarial tables began to connect weight and shorter lifespan, and cookbooks published around World War I targeted the overweight. "There was that idea that people who were overweight were hoarding resources needed for the war effort," Levine says. She adds that early concerns were that overweight American men would not be able to compete globally, participate in international business, or win wars.

Fatness has always been seen as a slight on the American character. Ours is a nation that values hard work and discipline, and it's hard for us to accept that weight could be not just a struggle of will, even when the bulk of the research—and often our own personal experience—shows that the factors leading to weight gain are much more than just simple gluttony. "There's this general perception that weight can be controlled if you have enough willpower, that it's just about calories in and calories out," says Dr. Glen Gaesser, professor of exercise and wellness at Arizona State University and author of BigFat Lies: The Truth About Your Weight and Your Health, and that perception leads the nonfat to believe that the overweight are not just unhealthy, but weak and lazy. Even though research suggests that there is a genetic propensity for obesity, and even though some obese people are technically healthier than their skinnier counterparts, the perception remains "[that] it's a failure to control ourselves. It violates everything we have learned about self control from a very young age," says Gaesser.

In a country that still prides itself on its Puritanical ideals, the fat self is the "bad self," the epitome of greed, gluttony, and sloth. "There's a widespread belief that fat is controllable," says Linda Bacon, author of Health at Every Size: The Surprising Truth About Your Weight. "So then it's unlike a disability where you can have compassion; now you can blame the individual and attribute all kinds of mean qualities to them. Then consider the thinner people that are always watching what they eat carefully—fat people are symbols of what they can become if they weren't so virtuous."
But considering that the U.S. has already become a size XL nation—66 percent of adults over 20 are considered overweight or obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control—why does the stigma, and the anger, remain?

Call it a case of self-loathing. "A lot of people struggle themselves with their weight, and the same people that tend to get very angry at themselves for not being able to manage their weight are more likely to be biased against the obese," says Marlene Schwartz, director of the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity at Yale University. "I think that some of this is that anger is confusion between the anger that we have at ourselves and projecting that out onto other people." Her research indicates that younger women, who are under the most pressure to be thin and who are also the most likely to be self-critical, are the most likely to feel negatively toward fat people.

As many women's magazines' cover lines note, losing the last five pounds can be a challenge. So why don't we have more compassion for people struggling to lose the first 50, 60, or 100? Some of it has to do with the psychological phenomenon known as the fundamental attribution error, a basic belief that whatever problems befall us personally are the result of difficult circumstances, while the same problems in other people are the result of their bad choices. Miss a goal at work? It's because the vendor was unreliable, and because your manager isn't giving you enough support, and because the power outage last week cut into premium sales time. That jerk next to you? He blew his quota because he's a bad planner, and because he spent too much time taking personal calls.
The same can be true of weight: "From working with so many people struggling with their weight, I've seen it many times," says Andrew Geier, a postdoctoral fellow in the psychology department at Yale University. "They believe they're overweight due to a myriad of circumstances: as soon as my son goes to college, I'll have time to cook healthier meals; when my husband's shifts change at work, I can get to the gym sooner.…" But other people? They're overweight because they don't have the discipline to do the hard work and take off the weight, and that lack of discipline is an affront to our own hard work. (Never mind that weight loss is incredibly difficult to attain: Geier notes that even the most rigorous behavioral programs result in at most about a 12.5 percent decrease in weight, which would take a 350-pound man to a slimmer, but not svelte, 306 pounds).

But why do the rest of us care so much? What is it about fat people that makes us so mad? As it turns out, we kind of like it. "People actually enjoy feeling angry," says Ryan Martin, associate professor of psychology at the University of Wisconsin, Green Bay, who cites studies done on people's emotions. "It makes them feel powerful, it makes them feel greater control, and they appreciate it for that reason." And with fat people designated as acceptable targets of rage—and with the prevalence of fat people in our lives, both in the malls and on the news—it's easy to find a target for some soul-clearing, ego-boosting ranting.

And it may be, that like those World War I-era cookbook writers, we feel that obese people are robbing us of resources, whether it's space in a row of airline seats or our hard-earned tax dollars. Think of health care: when president Obama made reforming health care a priority, it led to an increased focus on obesity as a contributor to health-care costs. A recent article in Health Affairs, a public-policy journal, reported that obesity costs $147 billion a year, mainly in insurance premiums and taxes. At the same time, obesity-related diseases such as type 2 diabetes have spiked, and, while diabetes can be treated, treatment is expensive. So the overweight, some people argue, are costing all of us money while refusing to alter the behavior that has put them in their predicament in the first place (i.e., overeating and not exercising).

The reality is much more complicated. It's a fallacy to conflate the unhealthy action—overeating and not exercising—with the unhealthy appearance, says Schwartz: some overweight people run marathons; eat only organic, vegetarian fare; and have clean bills of health. Even so, yelling at the overweight to put down the doughnut is far from productive. "People are less likely to seek out healthy behaviors when they're criticized by friends, family, doctors, and others," says Schwartz. "If people tell you that you're disgusting or a slob enough times, you soon start to believe it." In fact, fat outrage might actually make health-care costs higher. In a study published in the 2005 issue of the Journal of Health Politics, Policy and Law, Abigail Saguy and Brian Riley found that many overweight people decide not to get help for medical conditions that are more treatable and more risky than obesity because they don't want to deal with their doctor's harassment about their weight. (For instance, a study from the University of North Carolina found that obese women are less likely to receive cervical exams than their thinner counterparts, in part because they worry about being embarrassed or belittled by the doctor because of their weight.)
The bubbling rage against fat people in America has put researchers like Levine in a difficult position. On the one hand, she says, she wants to ensure that obesity is taken seriously as a medical problem, and pointing out the costs associated with obesity-related illnesses helps illustrate the severity of the situation. On the other hand, she says, doing so could increase the animosity people have toward the overweight, many of whom may already live healthy lives or may be working hard to make heathier choices.
"The idea is to fight obesity and not obese people," she says, and then pauses. "But it's very hard for many people to disentangle the two."


I think on those two articles I will "eloquently" rest my case.
Desperado


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

desperado said:


> I can actually state that I am sorry I tried to reason with your ealier post and form some sort of mutual understanding. I cannot understand why you rip each post that is unappealing to you. I would have to say that you failed to see the attempt at mutual respect and continued to tear into others. Your reasoning about addiction is terribly archaic and flawed.


1. Pot calling the kettle black? You've ripped into every post that didn't agree with you. The problem is you took it a step farther and ripped into the POSTER not just the content of the POST. 

2. My views on addiction are archaic? Because I believe even though an addiction makes it extremely hard to make the right choice, it is still a choice? Please, you are talking to someone who has a VERY addictive personality. I get addicted to things VERY easy. I've been addicted to online gaming, chat rooms, soda pop (still am), certain types of foods, sex, just about everything but alcohol and drugs. I KNOW how hard it is to quit an addiction, but I can also say I KNOW its a choice.

I finally found a healthy addiction since right now I'm addicted to working out. I do it 1-3 hrs almost everyday.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

desperado said:


> Originally Posted by revitalizedhusband
> "Chronic pain where? legs? back? arms? There are exercises that can work all parts of the body that wouldn't aggrivate any pre-existing injury. Your doctor or a physical trainer can help you find these specific exercises. "
> 
> See, it is this type of approach that has the ability to make one defensive. I am afraid that "chronic pain" is pain that is unmanageable on a daily basis, not a back ache or sore arms. There are no exercises that are safe for my injuries which nobody has inquired about, yet feel informed enough on to prescribe their antedotes. My neurosurgeon, endrocronologist, internal medicine MD, pain management specialist, rheumatologist, and yes, a psychiatrist are all on board managing my situation the most compassionately and best way they know how. I am sorry to say that a "physical trainer" isn't going to prove adequate in this situation. Always look before you leap.


If you read my question again, I most definitely asked where your pain was, I didn't "leap" and "assume" anything.


Also, if all of your doctor's are saying you can't exercise, then they are right, they know your case. If you have been reading most of my posts it has been the general blanket statements of "most obese people" not you specifically. 

Oh, and copy/pasting every study you find off google won't change the fact that 1% of obese people are caused by medical problems. 99% are caused by eating too much and exercising too little. You can look that one up on google too.

Every article you are copy/pasting is just talking about that 1%.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

desperado said:


> Thank you for the continued barbs, always helpful. You do not know anything about me so to assume that I feel the need to be accepted is possibly a projection? You see, the kind people of the thread do accept me and the others, well, honestly,* do you think I care?*


My post wasn't meant as a barb. But your response reinforces my belief that your weight is only part of the issue. 

Do I think you care? Absolutely.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

lastinline said:


> Atholk, I have read many of your posts, and I am surprised by how much your words reasonate with me. I actually ought to say "reasonate" and not resonate, because your thoughts are well arrived at, and even on occasion cited. It's a nice change in a forum so flooded with "opinion".
> Keep it up Atholk. Oh, and I'm sorry to read that you're so "shallow" and a "meanie" to boot, but on the brighter side at least you're not "arrogant" like I am. I guess we all have to be "something", because we can't possibly be right. Here's to killing the messenger. CHEERS.


I don't believe anyone has come close to "killing the messenger" here. I did say "shallow," but that is just my opinion. I did not, however, call anyone a "meany" or "arrogant."

I am confused as to why you are so against opinions, as this board is basically set up for opinions. Everyone, at least, here in the United States, is entitled to their own opinion. (some should never be voiced, though ) If you are seeking second opinions, I am sure anyone could very likely find a professional _someone,_ _somewhere_, who agrees with them, on almost any topic known to mankind.

In order to find fact, you would need to go elsewhere, such as a scientific board/web site or even back to med school. There are also, several links to resources here on "Talk About Marriage." :scratchhead:


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

I have not YET read the whole thread but will answer as I read...

First.. this:

* If you are so visually inclined then do her a favor and leave*

Why don't YOU leave.. if you are so miserable with him.. :scratchhead:


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

_What is love? I understand that fat is ugly. TRUST ME, I KNOW I AM FAT WITHOUT THE MAN THAT IS SUPPOSED TO DEFEND MY HONOR TELLING ME or even more cowardly, not telling me._

I understand how you feel.. well I think... but my question.. why don't you lose the weight.. 

If a woman/man marries a fit person.. then this person gains a looott of weight.. then ..sorry but it's NOT the same person.. I don't care how people put it.. it's simply not fair ... 

_Most woman eat excessively because food is their best friend. _

I don't... food is NOT my best friend.. and I know many women who don't... maybe therapy would help you deal with your weight issue.. 

_I am going to be 40 years old. I can't be arm candy forever._

I became an arm candy at 43... honestly.. 

_Love is an action as in how you treat someone regardless of their humaness. Love is not a feeling. When a man states that he is not "in love with you anymore" translated that means "I am not attracted to you anymore" the more a woman hears that the more she eats. It is a vicious cycle._

This is where you need counselling.
_
Why not leave your wife without permenately scarring her before you go?_

Then again.. why not leave HIM???


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

foolz1 said:


> Atholk, I rarely react this way to anyone, but your statements are downright insensitive, inappropriate and unwarranted, however, I'm undoubtedly convinced that you believe that you are perfect. It is your opinion...have at it.


I disagree.. I completely agree with Atholk post.. he nailed it..
sometimes the truth is taken as being 'mean'.. the truth sometimes hurts..


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

BTW, I'm 45 and I look pretty damn good. You know, for my age. ;-)


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

Huh???? since when do wedding vows = let go.. nonchalant behaviour about weight, etc.. 

So.. some people are basically saying.. once you're married.. the spouse can gain any amount of weight, therefore not taking care of their health... neglect their appearance... ignore their spouse's plea for wanting a fit, healthy partner... etc... etc.. 

till death do them part... 

Marriage vows should be like a contract and renewed every 5 years... then people would be more careful and respectful of their spouse..


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Lizzie60 said:


> Huh???? since when do wedding vows = let go.. nonchalant behaviour about weight, etc..
> 
> *So.. some people are basically saying.. once you're married.. the spouse can gain any amount of weight, therefore not taking care of their health... neglect their appearance... ignore their spouse's plea for wanting a fit, healthy partner... etc... etc..*
> 
> *till death do them part...* ..


No, I did not say that, not at all. I only said that traditionally, that is how marriage vows read. 



Lizzie60 said:


> *Marriage vows should be like a contract and renewed every 5 years... then people would be more careful and respectful of their spouse..*


But they aren't usually, are they? I wonder why they weren't...maybe because they were designed theoretically to give people a reason to commit them self to someone and to love unconditionally - *till death do they part*. Could that be it?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

My T says that couples divorce and remarry hundreds of times over the course of a marriage. And I think it is true. And since it only takes one vote to end it all, this idea that having to renew is silly. Anyone can walk at any time for any reason.

But at the same time, the safety of those vows is supposed to allow people to become who they were meant to become without having to walk on egg shells and worry constantly about not being everything to the other person.

It is a balancing act.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Before getting married we had the 'talk'. It went like this. 

Me: I understand this is a sensitive subject, however I want to talk about fitness. You know how everybody says they will be faithful etc. Well I am faithful. Just wired that way. So you will be the ONLY person I will be sleeping with from now on. 
Wife: What does fitness have to do with being faithful?
Me: I think you know how I feel about your slim, lithe 27 year old body. 
Wife: Absolutely crazy about it. Can't seem to keep your hands off of it. 
Me: Yep
Wife: What is your point?
Me: I was wondering if we could put something in our vows about fitness. I think we should vow to stay "fit" for each other. 
Wife: So you are going to dump me if I get fat?
Me: This is the only sexual relationship I will be in rest of my life, I am not attracted to fat women, any more then women are attracted to men shorter then they are. I am hardwired that way, same as women are hardwired to want a bigger stronger male. Not good, or bad. Just reality. 
Wife: (annoyed) Just how many pounds of leeway do I have here? Ten, fifteen? Is there a remediation period during which I can lose the weight? How many pounds of fat allowance do I get for carrying each of your children? And what is the post birth Slimming period"?
Me: I would like to avoid putting a hard number on it, especially since, we start going to the gym more and you add some muscle weight, kind of makes the equation more complex eh?
Wife: (now angry) What about twins? I want a twin allowance? Two weigh more than 1. 
Me: (soothing) Baby only your Doctor will comment on your weight during pregnancy, if he is happy, I am happy.
Wife: What about acts of God that cause disfigurement? Accidents, illness, etc. 
Me: All acts of God are covered. It is not a choice to get in a car accident. I will still love, honor and cherish under any and all Force Majeure events.
Wife: You are shallow - and a P I G - PIG
Me: I physically crave you
Wife: An amorous pig, but still a pig
Me: Lets persue that for a moment. How about right after marriage I stop making the EFFORT, to perform basic grooming and hygiene stuff. Don't get my hair cut, including my lovely nose hairs. Stop showering, etc... Or how about I stay clean but just dress too casually for rest of our lives?
Wife: Not acceptable. Seriously what the hell is wrong with you? 
Me: What exactly is the difference between grooming/hygiene/clothing choices and fitness? How come it is ok to not make an effort to be fit - but it is NOT ok to not do all this other stuff has little/no impact on health?
Wife: Smiling. Even though you are a pig, you know I am going to make the effort to stay fit for you. 
Me: And I for you.


>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pretty close to the actual conversation we had 20+ years ago. 










foolz1 said:


> No, I did not say that, not at all. I only said that traditionally, that is how marriage vows read.
> 
> But they aren't usually, are they? I wonder why they weren't...maybe because they were designed theoretically to give people a reason to commit them self to someone and to love unconditionally - *till death do they part*. Could that be it?


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

MEM11363, you may get a reprieve here, because you had a pre-marital discussion concerning fitness. Did you add that to your vows or sign a premarital agreement, just for legal purposes?


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

MEM... you must be a carpenter.. .you nailed it.. 

cute...

sooooo true..


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*The fat talk - "epilogue"*

As we near the end of year 20 - I look back at how things actually played out on the weight fitness front. 

Over the years my Wife and I have both encouraged and supported each other in terms of fitness and eating healthy. We walk together, bike together. Food shop together. I have never once in 20 years given her a funny look regarding a food choice. I did once chastise her for not exercising after our second child because she was getting edgy, not because she was heavy. We did have one serious conflict over weight that was ugly, brutal, honest and lasted almost two years. I finally got resolved in an acceptable way. 

Marriage weights in 1989:
Mine: 160 
Hers: 110

>>>>>>>>>>>>
Master bathroom - July 2007

I look anxiously at the number on the scale - 130 pounds. My wife stares at me pointedly and says - "is there a problem"? I flush, am silent. The tension rises. Finally I say "I am sorry". She is quiet, not happy. This is not good. Finally I look up from the tile floor - and she is staring at me. 
Wife: "For years I have listened to your comments about other peoples weight. You never seem very sympathetic, frankly you come across as very judgemental. Do you agree with that. You sure have been clear about how important is for me to manage MY weight" 
Me: (in a near whisper) yes
Wife: (coldly) So is this a problem or not? 
Me: (I am now sweating) I will fix this 

My wife has a weight thing just like I do. She likes me stocky. Not fat - stocky. Like I was when we got married. She had been patiently, nicely telling me that 'too thin' was a turn OFF for 2 years while I let my weight/muscle mass melt away and pretended that it was not important. 

She had finally reached her breaking point. When I had stopped lifting my testosterone level fell. And my attitude, aggressiveness and drive slowly dropped. My style became kinder, gentler, more patient. And weaker. I didn't flare when provoked. I was conflict avoidant - something she had never experienced in 18 years of marriage. My lack of body mass, combined with this kinder/gentler style was killing the passion. Her body was no longer reacting properly to me. Sex had turned into pure mercy sex, once every 5 days like clockwork - the minimum frequency I could tolerate. But it was 100% mercy sex - painful for her and painful for me. And she wasn't just turned off by the 'too thin' look - she was angry. She had kept her end of the bargain. A combination of a very healthy lifestyle and great genes had left her unscathed by nearly two decades of marriage. She looked the same as she did when we met. Hot. Yummy. Mr. self righteous however had let himself go, and had hoped for a double standard. And she had been patient and understanding for two years. That was now over. 

I went to the gym twice a week and lifted. I started eating one extra small meal a day. Before you snicker - I have reflux disease - cannot eat high fat foods - so it is hard for me to gain weight. But I sucked it up - made the effort - it took a year. 

Testosterone levels rose, aggressiveness rose, conflict happened - good conflict - healthy conflict - followed by makeup sex - hot, steamy makeup sex. And each month another pound or two of muscle arrived. 


Master Bathroom September 2008
I strip for a shower, step on the scale and smile as the digital readout shows 150. As I close the shower door I see my wife looking at me. I smile at her - and she smiles back. 





MEM11363 said:


> Before getting married we had the 'talk'. It went like this.
> 
> Me: I understand this is a sensitive subject, however I want to talk about fitness. You know how everybody says they will be faithful etc. Well I am faithful. Just wired that way. So you will be the ONLY person I will be sleeping with from now on.
> Wife: What does fitness have to do with being faithful?
> ...


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

Mem: I am a 5'9" guy and I started hitting the gym regularly again about a year ago when I saw a "2" as the first number for the first time in my life. I had hit 205 (was 175 in HS, very stocky/muscular build).

I hit the gym on my own without the wife upset, she played it off like she liked my little belly/love handles.

I hit the gym hard and in less than a year have dropped 25-30 lbs and am back to my high school weight of 175-180. 

She now tells me I better not drop anymore because she doesn't like a skinny boy...so, I've switched my routine to more muscle building workouts and less fat burning ones.

She's apparently like your wife, doesn't like a skin and bones man.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Foolz - LOL - Neither of us had any money back then so no prenup. That is really funny though. Imagine putting something like that in a prenup. But we really, really did have that conversation about fitness before we married. And she really did understand it was important to me. 

All my mothers friends - and my mother - did the exact same thing. They got married and then completely totally let themselves go. We are talking being 60 to 70 percent above ideal body weight. This always seemed wrong to me until one day we are at a football game and one of the women mentions this girl who is on the drill team. So they look over to where this girl is and my mom says, "she really needs to watch her weight" - see the drill team girl was pretty heavy. And her friend nods like - yeah of course that is right. 

Lightbulb goes off and I look at my Mom and her friend. And I am thinking this is "SO WRONG", you both know that men don't like fat women, you KNOW IT, and yet your only comment is about this girl getting fat BEFORE she is married. And that just seemed abusive, like what about if my Dad had only pretended to work hard until they got married and then he took a really easy low paying job and just let her stress out about money every week. Nothing wrong with a low paying job, just don't bait and switch people, that is just wrong. 

FYI: I have never met a woman "neutral" on this topic. They either respond like Lizzie or they are kind of rabid about what a shallow pri*k I am. 








foolz1 said:


> MEM11363, you may get a reprieve here, because you had a pre-marital discussion concerning fitness. Did you add that to your vows or sign a premarital agreement, just for legal purposes?


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

Again MEM.. I totally agree.. 

I find that women, in general, are way more hypocrits than men.. 

Men tend to be open.. and straight to the point.. you like it or not.. LOL

Women tend to beat around the bush... a walk buddy of mine.. is one of those women..... she does exactly what she HATES about other women... she constantly gossip... it really gets on my nerves... she does the exact same freaken thing.. 

This is something I have noticed over the years..


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Commitment*

Atholk,
When I look at my wife of 20 years I "see" two things simultaneously. One is the raw visual that as I have already said in other posts - still drives me crazy - and yes I respond to that at a purely physical / hardwired level. This is not a choice - this is an involuntary reaction. 

The other thing I see superimposed on her body is 20 years of commitment and determination. A whole adult lifetime of skipping cupcakes and only eating one small bag of cheetos when we go to the picnic, and going for a walk with me most nights, and exercising with her friends or herself on a regular basis. And yes it is emotionally satisfying to know that my wife values my desire, my passion more then a box of twinkies. That the fire in our marriage is worth getting up off the couch for. That matters to me. 

At 47 her hair is starting to thin, and entropy is slowly taking its relentless toll. And she is getting a little self conscious about physical stuff and aging. So when I say to her "You are beautiful, I just physically crave you" I know that makes her feel special. 









Atholk said:


> I think Wikipedia is a perfectly acceptable primer for a great deal of information and I believe you understood that as my intent. As I have said before, the only counter argument I have been given here is that I'm a meanie / shallow / male / not enabling Desperado just the way she likes it.
> 
> Your husband is likely sexually repulsed by your weight. You can't reason / beg / threaten / demand / pout him out of that reaction. Change the weight, or don't change the weight - it's your marriage to do with what you want.
> 
> I truly wish you well.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: Commitment*

And I am sure as hell not wandering off - but if I get hit by a truck my delightful better half will have no trouble finding a mate with whom to live out her golden years. And I am happy about that, I would not want her to be alone. 




MEM11363 said:


> Atholk,
> When I look at my wife of 20 years I "see" two things simultaneously. One is the raw visual that as I have already said in other posts - still drives me crazy - and yes I respond to that at a purely physical / hardwired level. This is not a choice - this is an involuntary reaction.
> 
> The other thing I see superimposed on her body is 20 years of commitment and determination. A whole adult lifetime of skipping cupcakes and only eating one small bag of cheetos when we go to the picnic, and going for a walk with me most nights, and exercising with her friends or herself on a regular basis. And yes it is emotionally satisfying to know that my wife values my desire, my passion more then a box of twinkies. That the fire in our marriage is worth getting up off the couch for. That matters to me.
> ...


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Atholk said:


> Well... I still have the private message where you called me "Adolph".
> 
> _Just sayin'...._


I guess if the shoe fits...wear it. 

~ Also, if the cap fits, wear it. If something applies to you, accept it, as in _These problems are hard to solve, and most people would need help, so if the shoe fits, wear it!_ This expression originated as if the cap fits, which alluded to a fool's cap and dates from the early 1700s. Although this version has not died out entirely, shoe today is more common and probably gained currency through the Cinderella fairy tale, in which the prince sought her out by means of the slipper she lost at the ball.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer.
Copyright © 1997 by The Christine Ammer 1992 Trust. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. 

Just saying...


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## runswithbeer78 (Sep 28, 2009)

It seems to me that someone that would leave their wife after being married for six years and two children just because she was overweight is immature. Did you write your own vows? I am certain you left that part out if you did. It looks like you are the one that is selfish. You have apparently neglected her for years...... Have you ever asked her if she was depressed? Weight gain is not some thing that happens over night. Where were you when you started to see more weight on her than she was even uncomfortable with. Why didn't you go to the gym with her? Because you are the one that has a lack of commitment to the marriage. Your home, car, wife, and kids are all probably things that you are proud of until they aren't perfect anymore. Your family is a product of how you take care of them.... and you aren't doing a very good job. We are all are attracted to youthfulness and beauty but there is a point in everyone's life that you realize that you aren't perfect anymore. Even you I am sure. I bet when your wife sees Brad Pitt she's drooling!! I know my grandma does. Your wife is waiting for you to be involved in the family again and show her some genuine interest. It's up to you to be happy. You are laying all the guilt on her.


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## scarletblue (May 20, 2009)

I admit, I did not read all of the posts on here, but want to give my opinion anyway. 

Before my first child, I was 19 years old, 105 lbs, and could eat anything I wanted and never gain weight, and always wore a size 5

4 years later, I was 100 lbs, fit better into girls size 14 pants because I had no hips, and could eat anything I wanted. Then I got pregnant with child #2. After he was born I weighed 140 and wore a size 9.

I had always been the skinny, cute gal. That was gone. It was hard finding my identity. I had low self esteem and a crappy marriage.

7 years later, pregnant with child #3. After he was born I was 170 lbs. and size 18. Not happy and not healthy. About 3 years after he was born, I was tired of it all and started to pay attention to what I ate. I lost 35lbs and was finding some much needed self confidence. Then I got pregnant again.

I had my daughter and still watched my diet and lost the extra weight pretty quick.

Now I need to point out that no matter what I weighed, 105 or 170 lbs, my hubby always found fault with me and put me down, cheated on me over and over. I don't eat when I'm depressed, I do the opposite.

My self confidence came from taking charge and deciding I didn't like getting winded walking a couple blocks. I also have wonderful, supportive friends. I divorced the man who was mentally abusive and cheated on me for 15 years.

I have friends that are 200lbs and beautiful. I have friends that are 110 lbs and beautiful. I think men are attracted to self confidence.

Everyone has a little mental list of what they find attractive in the opposite sex, I think. I think everyone has a mental list of things that turn them off, too.

I am now married to a man who I was not immediately attracted to. He's highly intelligent, strong, supportive, and loving. All on my good list.

He is also balding, has some back hair, a chipped front tooth,and ear hair. All on my bad list.

He is the sexiest man I know! I don't care about the flaws because I love him with all my heart. He loves me for who I am, not what I weigh. We both find each other immensively attractive.

Outer beauty fades with age. Inner beauty is forever. We all deserve someone who thinks we're beautiful, no matter what size clothing we wear. The only time weight should be an issue is when it is affecting our loved one's health.

Sorry so long, just needed to express my oinion.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

runswithbeer78 said:


> It seems to me that someone that would leave their wife after being married for six years and two children just because she was overweight is immature. Did you write your own vows? I am certain you left that part out if you did. It looks like you are the one that is selfish. You have apparently neglected her for years...... Have you ever asked her if she was depressed? Weight gain is not some thing that happens over night. Where were you when you started to see more weight on her than she was even uncomfortable with. Why didn't you go to the gym with her? Because you are the one that has a lack of commitment to the marriage. Your home, car, wife, and kids are all probably things that you are proud of until they aren't perfect anymore. Your family is a product of how you take care of them.... and you aren't doing a very good job. We are all are attracted to youthfulness and beauty but there is a point in everyone's life that you realize that you aren't perfect anymore. Even you I am sure. I bet when your wife sees Brad Pitt she's drooling!! I know my grandma does. Your wife is waiting for you to be involved in the family again and show her some genuine interest. It's up to you to be happy. You are laying all the guilt on her.


Care to enlighten us as to who you are responding to?


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## mae (Aug 17, 2009)

I have to say I completely agree with Scarlet. I do see both sides of this story. If my husband were to stop showering or something like that I would definitely be upset. However, if he gained a TON of weight and was working on losing it, I wouldn't fault him for that. Per him he has gained weight but I honestly haven't noticed.

I had a baby 6 months ago and I have been losing the weight. I have always be 120 and able to eat anything I wanted. When I got pregnant I kept with my same way of eating and I rapidly gained weight. So I went on a diet for the first time in my life. Since then I have really had to watch what I eat. I exercise a lot and as I said, I am losing the weight.

However, my husband still makes me feel unattractive. He doesn't support me and tell me I look beautiful. He never says anything nice about how I look. He has specifically said he doesn't find me attractive. Does this make me want to lose the weight faster so he can again find me attractive? Hell NO. It has the opposite effect. It makes me so frustrated I decide to skip the gym a day or decide to eat that Frosty at Wendys. 

I am still able to keep losing the weight because I want to look good and feel good about myself, not for him. I feel that if he was giving me support it would probably go a hell of a lot faster. 

On the other hand, if I wasn't doing anything to lose the weight and was eating junk food and not exercising, I could understand him not finding me attractive and I wouldn't fault him for that. I do fault him for finding me unattractive now when I am actively losing the weight. I'm a size 6 for heavens sake, that's not huge. So should I just expect that he'll make me feel unattractive until I'm a size 2? I don't think so. I will get back to a size 2, no doubt about it. But unless he starts treating me nicer now, he won't get to see me at that point. 

That's my opinion.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Good job, Mae. Doing it for yourself is the right thing to do. Sounds like you're married to a first class jerk.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mae,
If I was a friend of your man this is what I would say to him - man to man. 

Your wife just spent 9 months carrying your child. She is now making a concerted effort to get back in shape. You should be doing 3 and only 3 things:
- Telling her how greatful you are to her for carrying your child
- Telling her how beautiful she looks with sincerity, kindness and a loving touch (full body hugs, back rubs and neck caresses are good amplifiers of this message)
- Without any comments at all, help make the meal selection and snack food in the house healthier and make the effort to go on daily walks/weekend runs/bikerides with your wife. This is called being supportive. When she skips desert YOU skip desert. Be a good partner. 

If you do NOT do this, you risk having a very wonderful very powerful and scarily angry woman in your life. You do not want that. Right now she is acting very grown up and mature and you are acting like a spoiled child. 









dobo said:


> Good job, Mae. Doing it for yourself is the right thing to do. Sounds like you're married to a first class jerk.


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## mae (Aug 17, 2009)

LOL. I have to say MEM, I envy your wife. While I don't always agree with you, I do most of the time and you sound like a great husband. Can I give you my husband's phone number? (just kidding, unfortunately).


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## mae (Aug 17, 2009)

Just one other point on this thread, I think what matters is if you're actively working on getting healthy. If you're going to see doctors, doing any exercise you can (if you can), eating right, etc. then he shouldn't have any problem with your current weight. However, if you're not working on it and just accepting it as-is or, even worse, eating badly and gaining more weight, I can totally undertand him not accepting it and not being happy with you. 

Either way, I think you should do what makes YOU happy. If you're fine with how you are now and your husband isn't, then you'll need to leave him. If you're not fine with how you are, do whatever you can to work on it and your husband should support you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Atholk,
With regard to gratitude for child bearing you and I see this differently. I have already established my credentials with regard to how shallow I have always been about fitness. 

I am not however in a point counting/point scoring competition with wife. As for child production:
- I had an hour of rapture and then came really hard 
- She on the other hand had an hour of rapture AND
- 3 months of severe morning sickness 
- some heartburn and other symptoms
- 3 months at the end of just feeling fat/awkward couldn't really play certain sports she liked
- Capped off by 10 hours of painful labor and then delivery

Wait - Not done yet!!!
Then she shared her delightful nipples with our child for 6 months - even though the baby nursed hard and it hurt. She did that for all the health/IQ correlations to nursing.

And she did have to make some effort to lose the baby weight. The stretch marks will never go away and SHE doesn't like them. 

My wife has never tried to use these facts to extract anything from me. She is not like that. 

Still - how can I not be greatful to her. She sacrificed her body - has permanent marks on it. I came. 

Atholk - If being in that situation does not leave you feeling greatful, then I will henceforth think of you as Dexter's twin brother. Smart, entertaining, rational and sociopathic. 













Atholk said:


> OMG don't say that. That implies that she did you a massive favor because you aren't really good enough for her and you're forever in her debt. It's like handing her an emotional credit card with no limit and your name on the account. Eventually she'll start to wonder why the heck she had your child and not a better man's.
> 
> Just say "I'm not normally into stretch marks, but I like that I caused yours" while holding eye contact. If you get any kind of positive reaction, or just stunned silence / deer in headlights look, just start taking her clothes off and kissing her. _Then close the deal._ :smthumbup:


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Atholk, sounds like you are into keeping score. Heaven forbid you are in debt to your partner. 

I am. He puts up with me. And he didn't even carry my child!


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## scarletblue (May 20, 2009)

OK, back to the thread......I have seen many a case where the man only criticised, the woman still lost weight....then she lost more weight when she got rid of the negative man in her life.

The point is, if we hear endless put-downs and negative things from our significant others....then a lot of times, we decide to make positive changes changes in our lives, we get rid of the negative things in our lives, ie: unhealthy foods, habits and people. If you're not there to support her through the bad times, you may not get to enjoy the good times.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

runswithbeer78 said:


> It seems to me that someone that would leave their wife after being married for six years and two children just because she was overweight is immature. Did you write your own vows? I am certain you left that part out if you did. It looks like you are the one that is selfish. You have apparently neglected her for years...... Have you ever asked her if she was depressed? Weight gain is not some thing that happens over night. Where were you when you started to see more weight on her than she was even uncomfortable with. Why didn't you go to the gym with her? Because you are the one that has a lack of commitment to the marriage. Your home, car, wife, and kids are all probably things that you are proud of until they aren't perfect anymore. Your family is a product of how you take care of them.... and you aren't doing a very good job. We are all are attracted to youthfulness and beauty but there is a point in everyone's life that you realize that you aren't perfect anymore. Even you I am sure. I bet when your wife sees Brad Pitt she's drooling!! I know my grandma does. Your wife is waiting for you to be involved in the family again and show her some genuine interest. It's up to you to be happy. You are laying all the guilt on her.


Thank you for renewing my faith that maturity still is alive and well. If the beginning posts were read it is stated that cruel and abusive remarks were all I took when I gained the first 5 pounds. I was never with my husband as he was out and about with his interests. Yes, weight can be controlled but so can being a husband and not using your home and wife as a pit stop. Again, when my illness took over and the weight gained during a very difficult pregnancy including an emotional rollercoaster of fear that a late stage abortion was imminent due to a supposed fatal genetic birth defect, I was bedridden and unable to lose the weight. My OB/GYN always stated that to gain 15-20 pounds was old school and as long as I was healthy that weight was a non-issue. My husband was aloof and unresponsive before I gained weight. He was also impotent but did I leave? No, I married him not his penis.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: Commitment*



MEM11363 said:


> Atholk,
> When I look at my wife of 20 years I "see" two things simultaneously. One is the raw visual that as I have already said in other posts - still drives me crazy - and yes I respond to that at a purely physical / hardwired level. This is not a choice - this is an involuntary reaction.
> 
> The other thing I see superimposed on her body is 20 years of commitment and determination. A whole adult lifetime of skipping cupcakes and only eating one small bag of cheetos when we go to the picnic, and going for a walk with me most nights, and exercising with her friends or herself on a regular basis. And yes it is emotionally satisfying to know that my wife values my desire, my passion more then a box of twinkies. That the fire in our marriage is worth getting up off the couch for. That matters to me.
> ...


If I am understanding this quote; when you see your wife you see two things, her body and her commitment to her body? So far we know nothing about your wife except her her body and her sacrifice to give up twinkies for you.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

scarletblue said:


> I admit, I did not read all of the posts on here, but want to give my opinion anyway.
> 
> Before my first child, I was 19 years old, 105 lbs, and could eat anything I wanted and never gain weight, and always wore a size 5
> 
> ...


I am really happy to read your post. I left my husband after finally he crossed the line and became verbally abusive to our beautiful little girl and called our 25 yo dying dog. I will find happiness with a mature man who loves me for who I am.. At the time I am happy just being with my daughter and two wonderful new puppies. The weight, all of a sudden, doesn't matter. See, my daughter loves me and she would if I was 400 pounds as would my puppies, that is unconditional. I do tell her that fat people can be healthy or unhealthy and that is what matters, I agree with you 100 % good luck and best wishes for your future with your guy!


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> Care to enlighten us as to who you are responding to?


Why does it matter, it is the opionion that matters not why the opion was given.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

Atholk said:


> OMG don't say that. That implies that she did you a massive favor because you aren't really good enough for her and you're forever in her debt. It's like handing her an emotional credit card with no limit and your name on the account. Eventually she'll start to wonder why the heck she had your child and not a better man's.
> 
> Just say "I'm not normally into stretch marks, but I like that I caused yours" while holding eye contact. If you get any kind of positive reaction, or just stunned silence / deer in headlights look, just start taking her clothes off and kissing her. _Then close the deal._ :smthumbup:



I am literraly shocked by this response. I wonder if it would be different if you carried the child? An emotional credit card with not limit and your name on the account???? ...................This appears abusive to me, that's again just an opion from a woman who carried a child for my self and my husband.


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## desperado (Sep 19, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Atholk,
> With regard to gratitude for child bearing you and I see this differently. I have already established my credentials with regard to how shallow I have always been about fitness.
> 
> I am not however in a point counting/point scoring competition with wife. As for child production:
> ...



Thanks, MEM.


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