# The Truth about Low-T and TRT, first hand experience



## Depth.Inside (Jul 5, 2012)

Ok... so every time I mention that I am low-T everyone immediately thinks... _Ahhhhh... His poor willy doesn’t work!_ 

There are SOOOO many misconceptions, I had to post on it. I’m sure it is all over this board but hey, I am still male. I’m not digging. Here is a hard reality for those to manly to check their T levels.

First, Low T may or MAY NOT cause ED. You heard it here folks. My little soldier worked fine even though I was below normal levels. In fact, it NEVER failed. This is not a good method to determine if you are Low-T. As you age your jackhammer isn’t as rigid, fact.... but low testosterone does not guarantee that your flag won’t fly.

Second, ALL MEN have decreasing testosterone starting in their late 20's. Every year it drops at that point. Just because you think you are all manly, it does not mean that you cant be suffering Low-T. Heck, mine was so bad I should have cried every time I saw a puppy. Yet, like every other guy, I still tried to sneak a peak every time a woman bent over with a low cut shirt. 

Third, the weight youre carrying around your middle section (IE, your gut) yep... it could be Low-T. True story. You do still have to do your part but if you are working on looking better and the results are still missing it truly could be your testosterone levels....

Finally, the average range is from around 300 to over 1,000. Your body determines how much you have and how you react. Some massive bodybuilders may have a 360 read while a 15 year old kid has over 1,000. The number means NOTHING in the real world and only is important to your body. Dr's will boost the dose until you feel better. They are not looking for a number because there truly is no normal "Range."

On to some facts. I started talking with my Dr. about not feeling good which was not normal for me. I wasn’t sleeping well yet oddly enough, during the day I was EXHAUSTED. I had bouts where I thought I could fall over and sleep at any moment. I suffered from weird headaches and then major mood surges. There were times where I felt as if I was being held down and I would just want to explode and scream at the top of my lungs to get the frustration out. 

I talked to my Dr about this. Keep in mind I was into body building for 10 years so I’m pretty bulky. I am covered in hair, etc.... All of the signs point to regular Testosterone. We did the test and ding, ding, ding... we have a winner. 

Given the options I went to the shots. The gel is ok but you have to rub it under your arms daily and then allow it to dry before anyone touches you. What a PAIN. I go to my Dr's every two weeks, 10- minutes and a shot in the rear later and I’m out the door.

At one point I did question my manhood and decided to skip a shot. I was out of town on work anyway so no big deal... Because I missed a full cycle of the medicine, I felt like crap all over again and remembered why he checked it in the first place. 

The outcome: I feel MUCH better. It truly has made a difference. I rarely feel like I’m going to pass out. I have 2x the energy I did before, and even though I never had ED I wake up several times a night with a kickstand. 

Also, some of my muscle groups had started to get soft because I haven’t been to the gym in 10-years (front and rear delts, lats, etc). After the shots, just doing normal work around the house, the muscle groups and definition have started to come back.

Get past the stereotypes.... if you genuinely feel like crap, have no energy, etc. get checked out. Low T is about far more than your manhood. Testosterone is a chemical that defines you in so many ways and everyone immediately reverts to a highschool mentality and links it to their tool. Its not worth being low T for a stereotype.


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

I have low testosterone, I think my latest test showed 208. I'm tired all the time, I get consistent muscle cramps, feel bloated, extreme muscle weakness, terrible sleep, bad memory, significant weight gain etc.

I'm going to a specialist in around a month but I don't know if TRT is what I want. I've heard TRT can affect fertility and since I'm only 30 I don't want to go through with it if it's true, at least right now. 
I've been to numerous medical and alternative health doctors and so far acupuncture and traditional chinese medicine has worked best for me. I'm going to continue that until I get to see the specialist but at this point I don't know what can bring me back to 100%.


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## Methuselah (Nov 24, 2014)

Pollo said:


> I'm going to a specialist in around a month but I don't know if TRT is what I want. I've heard TRT can affect fertility and since I'm only 30 I don't want to go through with it if it's true, at least right now.


TRT has been investigated as a form of male birth control.

Your pituitary (and hypothalamus) gland regulates your T levels. When it detects your T is low, it releases gonadotropin, which instructs the testes to produce T. At the same time, your testes produce sperm.

When you are on TRT, your pituitary gland "sees" your T levels are "normal", so no (or very little) gonadotropin is released into your system. Thus the testes do not produce (or produce very little) T, nor manufacture (or very little) sperm.

If you are attempting to conceive while on TRT, you need to have a semen analysis to determine if you are producing sperm. If not, you can temporarily discontinue TRT and allow the pituitary to start signaling again, which will have your testes produce sperm.

Chances are, though, if you have "low T" as a matter of routine, you are going to have an abnormally low sperm count anyway, since by definition you are not producing T and thus your testes are not producing sperm at the same time they produce T.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Good posts. I am 66, have low T and been on HRT for about 5 years. When I had low T I had no problems down there. Absolutely none. Yes your testicles shrink, which is odd. Other than that it is great.

I decided to go for HRT, because my mom had osteoporosis and died of complications from a fall that fractured her hip. Yes, I know this is more of a women's thing, but at the time, I had two bone scans that showed I had low bone density and it was getting worse. With the HRT, running and weightlifting, I now have normal bone density.

I use the gel and don't have a problem with that at all.

I have also read the lawsuits and studies behind the lawsuits on using the gels. The subjects of those studies were either in pathetic physical shape (unable to climb a flight of stairs or walk a block), or self selected based on ED (remember the line within the Viagra commercial about, "ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex....") with no actual measurement of T levels.

As stated it is good for some folks. It isn't for everyone, especially a younger person who wants to have kids or someone who isn't sure they want to make it a lifetime commitment.


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## tangled123 (Jan 18, 2015)

Thank you so much to guys who have shared here.... I'm off to research on T


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

Is TRT something you need to continue permanently? Or can it bring your body back in balance so you don't have to rely on it?


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

It is typically going to be a lifelong thing. You can do "restart" protocols to see if you can get your natural test production to something you are comfortable with.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I hear so many commercials for the "low T" clinics these days it got me curious. I had a physical last year, and mentioned the low-T commercials to my doc, and asked if it was something to keep in mind. I'm 52, but feel well, no tiredness, etc.

He said he could tell by looking at me I did not have low T. According to him, he said I didn't even need to be checked. Said to wait until I notice a decrease in muscle mass...kinda "you'll know when you need to check" thing.

Can exercise help maintain testosterone? Too lazy to research it.:ezpi_wink1: I get a good amount of exercise, plus try to get to the gym a couple days a week.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Forest said:


> I hear so many commercials for the "low T" clinics these days it got me curious.


Then the commercials did their job. Never underestimate the ability of Big Pharma to concoct yet another health crisis to help you part with your money.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Then the commercials did their job. Never underestimate the ability of Big Pharma to concoct yet another health crisis to help you part with your money.


This is exactly how I view this entire Testasterome crap.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Forest said:


> I hear so many commercials for the "low T" clinics these days it got me curious. I had a physical last year, and mentioned the low-T commercials to my doc, and asked if it was something to keep in mind. I'm 52, but feel well, no tiredness, etc.
> 
> He said he could tell by looking at me I did not have low T. According to him, he said I didn't even need to be checked. Said to wait until I notice a decrease in muscle mass...kinda "you'll know when you need to check" thing.
> 
> Can exercise help maintain testosterone? Too lazy to research it.:ezpi_wink1: I get a good amount of exercise, plus try to get to the gym a couple days a week.


Sounds like you have a good doctor....not easy to find this day and age


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

If you use T creams, order them from a compounding pharmacy like Womens International. It'll cost like $35 per month. Big pharma is all about weak useless T and high profits. A compounding pharmacy will custom blend to order. Maybe mix it with USP DMSO, if you can get it, for fast and best absorption. Do not get from health food stores. Wrong stuff. You'll be able to use less per dose saving even more money. 

Any male with total T under 550 is at risk for many many health related issues. Many. Low T and Diabetes... Heart... Many health issues for men. 

Make sure when you get your blood test, your Total T is 700-900, Free T is 20-25 and Estrodoil is 20-30. NEVER accept lies and uneducated crap from your doctor it's normal or in the "normal range" BS. Get the numbers! Take action.

That fat around your abdomen is Estrogen. The more fat, the more estrogen it produces, making you fatter, creating even more estrogen. Death spiral. Health issues galor. Estrodoil under 20 or above 30 is a major problem.

Watch and manage your DHT as well.

Balance is so important.

Research. A great place is LEF.ORG. Life Extension Foundation out of Florida.

They have TONS of research on all sorts of health topics. Look them up. Educate yourself.

OP, check the half-life of the T you get in your shots. It's probably 7 -10 days. You may be better off getting them weekly. You might be close to crashing with much less than half your T before your bi-weekly shots. Also learn to give yourself shots if you can.

Here's just one item of heart issues (Heart Failure) related to low T. From National Health Institute. 

---------------------------------------------------
Testosterone deficiency is a generalized phenomenon seen in the course of chronic heart failure (CHF). Reduction in circulating testosterone level is a predictor of deterioration of functional capacity over time, underscoring the role of testosterone deficiency in CHF. Anabolic hormones are determinants of exercise capacity and circulating levels of anabolic hormones strongly determine muscle mass and strength. Testosterone deficiency is involved in the pathophysiology of CHF, contributing to some features of this syndrome, such as the reduced muscle mass, abnormal energy handling, fatigue, dyspnea and, finally, cachexia. This review summarizes current knowledge on the role of testosterone deficiency in the pathophysiology of CHF, gaining insights from the potential implications of testosterone as supplementation therapy.
---------------------------------------------------

HUGE RISKS for T under 550. Fire your doctors, gentlemen. Find a real one.


Cheers!


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Forest said:


> I hear so many commercials for the "low T" clinics these days it got me curious. I had a physical last year, and mentioned the low-T commercials to my doc, and asked if it was something to keep in mind. I'm 52, but feel well, no tiredness, etc.
> 
> He said he could tell by looking at me I did not have low T. According to him, he said I didn't even need to be checked. Said to wait until I notice a decrease in muscle mass...kinda "you'll know when you need to check" thing.
> 
> Can exercise help maintain testosterone? Too lazy to research it.:ezpi_wink1: I get a good amount of exercise, plus try to get to the gym a couple days a week.


Exercise definitely helps. Get a real doctor. Get tested and take action. Most doctors only get 4 hours hormone training in medical school. They are ignorant. Idiots if you will. Go to LEF.ORG for info. Do searches on T.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

DoF said:


> This is exactly how I view this entire Testasterome crap.


Dangerous opinion. Unsupported by facts possibly? Read a couple posts backwards..


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Any male with total T under 550 is at risk for many many health related issues. Many. Low T and Diabetes... Heart... Many health issues for men.
> 
> Make sure when you get your blood test, your Total T is 700-900, Free T is 20-25 and Estrodoil is 20-30. NEVER accept lies and uneducated crap from your doctor it's normal or in the "normal range" BS. Get the numbers! Take action.


I agree. I've heard too much of this normal range crap. My cortisol was also just at the bare minimum and my old crappy doctor tried telling me it's fine because it's in the normal range and he never bothered checking my testosterone. Even at 208 my testosterone is just slightly below the range but I feel like garbage all day, everyday and I'm having severe health issues. This needs to be taken seriously.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Pollo said:


> I agree. I've heard too much of this normal range crap. My cortisol was also just at the bare minimum and my old crappy doctor tried telling me it's fine because it's in the normal range and he never bothered checking my testosterone. Even at 208 my testosterone is just slightly below the range but I feel like garbage all day, everyday and I'm having severe health issues. This needs to be taken seriously.


It's way low. Needs to be 700-900. Find another doc or Natropath.


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

Q tip said:


> It's way low. Needs to be 700-900. Find another doc or Natropath.


I have a good doctor now, he recognizes that I have a testosterone problem. He also gives me natural supplements to help out.

Also, the one thing that's helped me the most over the years has been acupuncture by a Chinese doctor. I moved out of the area so I stopped going for acupuncture for the past year and I've gotten so much worse. I'm going back now and I'm hoping I'll improve again. Acupuncture has done amazing things for me that I never thought possible. As soon as I get the chance I'm going to try to do it intensely for a month or so and see how much better I can get.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

If your T is not now 700-900 find a real doc. Balance the other hormones mentioned above. Don't accept mediocrity.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

DoF said:


> Sounds like you have a good doctor....not easy to find this day and age


Yes, I really DID have a good doctor. He was my doctor for 14 years. I liked him, trusted him, and wanted to stay with him as long as I possibly could. I really did.

Unfortunately, our president and congress pulled a stunt that has now separated me from him, and costs me A LOT more money each month. I'll never see him again.


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

Forest said:


> Yes, I really DID have a good doctor. He was my doctor for 14 years. I liked him, trusted him, and wanted to stay with him as long as I possibly could. I really did.
> 
> Unfortunately, our president and congress pulled a stunt that has now separated me from him, and costs me A LOT more money each month. I'll never see him again.


Wow, that sucks. I'm not from the US, what happened?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Pollo said:


> Wow, that sucks. I'm not from the US, what happened?


The answer to that question almost certainly belongs in the politics and religion section.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Forest said:


> I hear so many commercials for the "low T" clinics these days it got me curious.
> 
> ...He said he could tell by looking at me I did not have low T. According to him, he said I didn't even need to be checked.
> 
> ...Can exercise help maintain testosterone? Too lazy to research it.:ezpi_wink1: I get a good amount of exercise, plus try to get to the gym a couple days a week.


Just about everyman's T levels drop over time, some quicker than others. Should you wait until it becomes a problem, or should you be proactive. That is an interesting question you didn't ask. 

For me it was a problem, not a sexual problem, but a bone density and energy level problem. Another symptom of low T is being grumpy. I am not sure a doctor can look at you and check all the huge number of things that can go wrong without performing some kind of testing.

As to exercise. Yes that helps in two ways. First belly fat will convert certain hormones into estrogen like hormones. Second a small percentage of testosterone is made in the adrenal glands on top of our kidneys. Exercise also helps with this.




Q tip said:


> If you use T creams, order them from a compounding pharmacy like Womens International. It'll cost like $35 per month. Big pharma is all about weak useless T and high profits. A compounding pharmacy will custom blend to order.....


Q tip; not sure about where you are but out where I live, I talked to a couple of compounding pharmacies about getting them to mix up some T-cream for me, when the maker of Androgel stopped making their 1% cream. Turns out that it would have cost me out where I live (last year) about $90/month for a compounding pharmacy mix and I would have had to order it in 3-month quantities to get that price. Smaller quantities would have been even less. My T is low enough that health insurance pays for it and my co-pays are much less than the $90 per month. 

Yes Big pharma is a racket, but compounding is not always the solution. You do need to shop around. I looked into it where I am, with quality compounding firms I would trust, but couldn't find an alternative as low as you have.


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

I just got my latest results and my testosterone is now around 60... Not sure what I should think about that.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Pollo said:


> Wow, that sucks. I'm not from the US, what happened?


Sorry for the delay. Like Cletus said, this could rapidly lead to a moving to politics, but here's my best non-partisan answer:

It was the whole "Obamacare" thing. In a nutshell, much was made over the fact that you'd be able to stay with insurance plans you currently had. That turned out to be very inaccurate.
Once Obamacare was passed, many insurance companies were forced (or chose to, a debate) cancel policies because they did not meet Obamacare regulations. Both of our policies were cancelled.

In the end, we ended up having to find new policies, and our monthly insurance costs went from around $440 to $796. We also had to switch doctors, travel further....Don't get me started.


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## Methuselah (Nov 24, 2014)

Q tip said:


> That fat around your abdomen is Estrogen.


damn. that explains why my man boobs are so huge. its all the estrogen I have! 

At least I can say I am in touch with my feminine side!


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Pollo said:


> I just got my latest results and my testosterone is now around 60... Not sure what I should think about that.


Holy crud that's low.

Lower than mine and mine was low.

You need to be getting yourself to a proper doctor and getting on some TRT STAT!


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Pollo said:


> I agree. I've heard too much of this normal range crap. My cortisol was also just at the bare minimum and my old crappy doctor tried telling me it's fine because it's in the normal range and he never bothered checking my testosterone. Even at 208 my testosterone is just slightly below the range but I feel like garbage all day, everyday and I'm having severe health issues. This needs to be taken seriously.


208 is way too low. You need to get it up to 700-900. Find another doc. Talk to him before you let him touch you. Make sure he understands T and hormones in general. Ask him what's a healthy range. If he misses total T 700-900 and free T 20-25. Walk out and make quacking sounds on your way out. 

Try a naturopathic MD. 

There are a few thing you can do to raise it. Work out. Lift free weights, not the machines. Head over to LEF.ORG. Do a search on T in health issues. Educate yourself.

Blood test ranges are being widened by Obamacare so fewer people are treated to save money at the cost of lives.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Methuselah said:


> damn. that explains why my man boobs are so huge. its all the estrogen I have!
> 
> At least I can say I am in touch with my feminine side!


Jokes aside, estrogen is the hormone of life and the hormone of death. 

Take action. Now. My find a doc who gets hormones. Work out, free weights.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Just about everyman's T levels drop over time, some quicker than others. Should you wait until it becomes a problem, or should you be proactive. That is an interesting question you didn't ask.
> 
> For me it was a problem, not a sexual problem, but a bone density and energy level problem. Another symptom of low T is being grumpy. I am not sure a doctor can look at you and check all the huge number of things that can go wrong without performing some kind of testing.
> 
> ...


I'm in the US. Women's International is one of the first compounding pharmacies. Call them and ask. They're in Arizona. You can also compare prices with the pharmacy at LEF.ORG life Extension Foundation. They're in Florida. 

Both will ship to you. Make sure you order a 90 day supply around the hot summer months. Heat in shipment is a concern.

$90 is pure profit, negotiate that price down. T is cheap actually.. Be nice to source myself. Would be very inexpensive. Oh well.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Q tip said:


> ...Both will ship to you. Make sure you order a 90 day supply around the hot summer months. Heat in shipment is a concern.
> 
> $90 is pure profit, negotiate that price down. T is cheap actually..


Maybe I will look into it again and have a mail order quote to provide to the local compounding pharmacy so they understand that there is competition.

Thanks.


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

Q tip said:


> 208 is way too low. You need to get it up to 700-900. Find another doc. Talk to him before you let him touch you. Make sure he understands T and hormones in general. Ask him what's a healthy range. If he misses total T 700-900 and free T 20-25. Walk out and make quacking sounds on your way out.
> 
> Try a naturopathic MD.
> 
> ...


My latest test shows I'm around 60 now...
I trust this doctor, he doesn't buy that crap about being in the normal ranges and he's an MD but he's given me lots of natural supplements. He also works with a homeopathic doctor.

He hasn't given me boosters yet but it seems like he's trying to start with medication with less side effects. I'm only 30 so hopefully I can find some way of getting my body to bounce back. I'm doing acupuncture now and it's helped me the most so far.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

You trust a doc who does not treat you...? Zero results? 
What is his strategy? Keep billing your insurance for visits?

Any diagnosis? Root cause? Strategy? 

What does the doc say your range should be. Go to LEF.ORG and do your own research. What are all your other hormone levels. 

Find a real doc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

Q tip said:


> You trust a doc who does not treat you...? Zero results?
> What is his strategy? Keep billing your insurance for visits?
> 
> Any diagnosis? Root cause? Strategy?
> ...


He has treated me, he's starting with the least severe medications. My TSH was also high so he started me on iodine and now thyroid hormone. I've also used pregenelone cream and HCG injections.
All of those have had minor effects so he's referred me to a specialist for testosterone and is continuing to see me. 

I didn't ask him about numbers but he said my testosterone being at 208 was way too low, so he doesn't just look at the standard range. I also don't live in the US so I don't have insurance.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I have considered going to a doctor about this same topic. I have plenty of energy but have zero interest in sex. I used to be the complete opposite. It feels a bit off to be a man that has no sex drive.


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## Pollo (Oct 17, 2014)

I've been doing acupuncture twice a week for the past 2 weeks and I feel SO MUCH better. I've actually lose close to 10 pounds already and I'm feeling great.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Aromatase Inhibitors prevent the conversion of Testosterone to Estradiol (the most potent form of estrogen).

From *Aromatase inhibitors in men: effects and therapeutic options*



> _"Aromatase inhibitors may be an attractive alternative for traditional testosterone substitution in elderly men because these compounds can be administered orally once daily and may result in physiological 24 h testosterone profiles. Additionally, misuse of aromatase inhibitors is unlikely since testosterone levels will not be stimulated to vastly supraphysiological levels. A small, controlled study demonstrated that anastrozole in a dose of 1 mg daily during 12 weeks will result in doubling of the mean bioavailable testosterone level in older men [36]. A more recent study also showed a moderate but significant effect of aromatase inhibition on estradiol and testosterone levels in older men [37]. Treatment with atamestane 100 mg once daily resulted in a 40% increase in total testosterone levels after 36 weeks. "_


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

I had a blood draw done and tested Saturday. I got the results today.


Not good.


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

Question: Is it normal to have a low total T score (like below the bottom limit) then have a free T score just above the lower limit? It would seem to me they would both be lower than the limit, or the free would be lower than the limit while the total would be a generic low.


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