# Getting my wife out of emotional affair



## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

My wife posts or posted? on this board as "floxie". I am unaware if she Is still reading on this forum or not, but I do hope so. I suppose there is no need to go into detailed specifics right now, but I can, if neccesary.

The gist is that my wife is in an emotional affair with an ex boyfriend. I do not believe she has ever had sex with this person, including the time they were dating as it was in high school. 

My wife had a chronic illness thrust upon her in 2011 that I did not handle very well. Immaturity, anger, resentment and fear crippled me from manning up. She was very ill, and I detached from her and the situation. From her point of view, it seems she saw me as a bully. But I don't believe I was. I did say some inappropriate things, and I was resentful which probably did show through on some level. I do deal with both depression and anxiety on a fairly regualar basis.

My wife, slowly it seems, detached from me and attached herself to this ex. Pouring out her heart to him on facebook and by text message. The conversations were not intimate but did involve her sharing deep felings aboit her health, illness and the state of our marriage. The two would meet for bruch fairly regularly, with my disapproval. I was aware of the venue and did drive by a few times to see if her car was in fact there. It always was. I dropped in once to meet this man, friend of my wife, my wife introduced us but was clearly irritated with my being there.

This emotinal affair now has been going on for almost a year, she is still sick. I have been trying to get her to re attach to me but I feel she will not until this other man is out of the picture. He is filling her emotional needs in a way that I would love to right now. I have experienced so much growth and am ready to be that attentive husband that I know I have not been.

My wife seems unwilling to let go of this friendship "for the sake of her sanity" she says. From reading her journal (started writing it immediately following her illness) it seems that she is fearful of me and considers me "a cold stone only interested in sex" and "emotionally empty incapable of empathy". She also desires to "make live to the man that sees beyond her shattered body", her friend. These words sting to read, but give me insight as well into my wife's mind. They also assure me that she is not having an emotional affair,yet. She does not share these feeling with me, ever. I do believe she attempted to at some point, but I was unable to really hear her or help her. I deeply regret that.

My quesion I suppose is how do I get this man out of my wife's life and her head. More importantly, how do I show her that I am emotionally safe and capable of being everything that this friend is and then some. I do love my wife, she has supported me through so many situations, including a sex addiction with prostitutes, and the subsequent financial troubles that it caused. She has been and is my rock, and a beautiful woman inside and out. I failed her, I recognize that, and I want to make it right. I hope you are reading this, floxie.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/search.php?searchid=3640198

Her threads. OP, from what I remember, she has much resentment on how you treated her during her illness. I am not sure if this can be repaired. But any chance would be by showing her that you can be trusted again in the long term


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Are you still living together?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Looks like she was banned in July.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/49408-sexually-repulsed-husband-want-move-dont-know-how.html


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## constant_ache (Jul 10, 2011)

Ouch. She went through a lot, and you didn't help at all. 
How do I know? I had her exact same symptoms with that same drug.

You have a long uphill battle to fight.

Please tell her to join the forum again. I've read her story and some were questioning the validity of it. I certainly understand how frustrating that is, because I've been there.

One thing I can tell you is, being healthy one day, and feeling near death the next, is difficult for anyone, let alone being in our 20's. I had a supportive husband, but my illness affected our relationship down the line.
I was not tolerant of wasting time arguing over his petty issues. When this happens, this shakes you to the core. You realize how important life is and how short amount of time we all really have here.

Even if you were the most supportive, she probably would have analyzed the relationship down the line regardless of how you were during. It's just the way it goes. 

Please tell her to rejoin the forum. I know exactly what she went through.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Yea...I remember floxie. I was one who was trying to show her that what she was doing was an EA. Didn't realize she had been banned over a month ago. 

Question, shock... why have your posts all been a month apart? With the exception of last month, which had about 3-4 posts in your thread, all the rest have been a month apart. Just curious. And I do recall the first post you made. I wondered, even then, who your wife was. Perhaps you could now give your side of what happened? I know from experience that marital problems get exaggerated when in an EA. So...what did she lie about/exaggerate?

Also, constant_ache, I believe she got a "hard ban" but idk. If so, it might be tough to get reinstated.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> She was very ill, and I detached from her and the situation.


And she sought comfort from someone else, in her pain, misery and fear? Someone who did not detach from her and her situation?

I understand why she did that.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

I appreciate everyone's quick responses

Warlock07: I know that she resents me. I am trying so hard to show her that she can trust me. But it seems that she does not want to give me even an inkling of acceptance back into her heart. I feel like I am throwing her a parade and she is looking right past it.

Will kane: we do still live together.

Constant ache: I wasn't there for her. Her illness was as new to her as it was to me. She did become more short with me, calling my issues petty. They did not seem petty to me. The lack of sex, dirty house were genuine issues that I had. It frustrated me and made me angry with her. She has written a lot about that in her journal, about being healthy then suddenly sick. It took a lot of time for the reality of that to soak in for me. It took so long forher to be diagnosed with anything, and she did not look sick. I did believe she was exaggerating it until I joined her online support group.

Maricha75: my posts have been scattered because I did not feel I had a concrete question. And I was unsure if my wife was still reading or posting on this forum. It appears that she is not. In her post titled "sexually repulsed by husband..." I can not see anything she directly lied about except the motvation behind why I did do those things. She seems to think that I did it because I was a bully, cold, heartless, mean. But that was not true. I was scared, shocked, frightened, frustrated and cowardly.

Mattmatt: I understand why she did that as well. I suppose anyone would. But "foxie" is a married woman. And should not have such strong emotional attachments to any man but her husband, me


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You have one card left to play. Show her that you will be fine without her. It may not help because it seems that is exactly what you did when she was ill and she resents you for it.

When you get tired of being the second choice. File for divorce. That might wake her up or might not.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> You have one card left to play. Show her that you will be fine without her. It may not help because it seems that is exactly what you did when she was ill and she resents you for it.
> 
> When you get tired of being the second choice. File for divorce. That might wake her up or might not.


I do not think this is a case for that. I think that will put the final nails in the marriage. I don't think it is his choice anymore really. I think he needs to take a hard look at his life and decide what's important. Then he needs to lay it all on the line for his wife. What really is important, what his hopes and dreams are, what he wants from marriage, how he failed before, what he should have done instead, and how he will behave in the future. Then he needs to ask if she is willing to recommit. If she isn't, they're done anyway. If she does, well then he has to jump back into the marriage 100%, and do his best to be a great husband.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

TDSC60: I absolutely do not want to file for divorce. My wife brings up divorce in many arguments and I fear that if I file, she'll just say "ok", divorce me and then go live with this man. He seems infatuated with her and would take her in without hesistation I believe. After finding this forum, I began implementing a sort of "180" but it was ineffective I believe. I stopped attempting to initiate affection, sex, attention,conversation and she seemed....happier.

Sadandangry: I have told her all of that. And it always come back to why I did that, and I do not have a concrete for answer her, other than that I was a coward. And then she has this idea that I've only decided to change because of her ex being around. That is not true of course. This other man did not shake me into loving my wife, I have always loved her. Always will too. But seeing my wife smile, laugh, make jokes,try and get dressed up , that shook me, because I wanted to be the man inspiring her to do those things. I'm her husband for gods sake! But around me,my wife often looked so sad, gloomy, messy. It irritated me. But it was the stupidest thing. She wanted me to wrap my arms around her, and I didn't do that. I let her down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> TDSC60: I absolutely do not want to file for divorce. My wife brings up divorce in many arguments and I fear that if I file, she'll just say "ok", divorce me and then go live with this man. He seems infatuated with her and would take her in without hesistation I believe. After finding this forum, I began implementing a sort of "180" but it was ineffective I believe. I stopped attempting to initiate affection, sex, attention,conversation and she seemed....happier.
> 
> Sadandangry: I have told her all of that. And it always come back to why I did that, and I do not have a concrete for answer her, other than that I was a coward. And then she has this idea that I've only decided to change because of her ex being around. That is not true of course. This other man did not shake me into loving my wife, I have always loved her. Always will too. But seeing my wife smile, laugh, make jokes,try and get dressed up , that shook me, because I wanted to be the man inspiring her to do those things. I'm her husband for gods sake! But around me,my wife often looked so sad, gloomy, messy. It irritated me. But it was the stupidest thing. She wanted me to wrap my arms around her, and I didn't do that. I let her down.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I agree that a 180 or filing in your case, will only convince her that you won't be there for her in the tough times again. 

Yes. I think she will let you go. She probably wants you to file to avoid guilt or regret. 

For awhile, prior to filing, I was hoping my STBEH would file first, But he would not. 

If he had I would have been fine with it. 

He still does not want the divorce but he did so many cruel and obnoxious and disloyal things that I would be a fool to stay. 

Your behavior was immature, but IMO, she can move past it, if you show her you will be there for her in the tough times. 

One reason I filed is I feel that for my husband to do what he did to me, he must truly hate me. 

I also don't trust that he would be there for me if we reconciled a second time and we hit another rough patch. 

He betrayed me by getting a lap dance at a time, when I believe our false reconciliation was real. He also stopped twice to talk to the OW when he ran into her in town, after promising no contact.

After the second betrayal I could no longer trust my own judgment let alone him. 

You need to show her that you are committed through thick and thin.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

In the meantime, have you altered your behaviour to be what it should? I mean, you can work on the marriage from your side, without her input. It can't hurt the marriage. You're already at peril emotionally, so you've got not much left to lose.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Have you asked her why she hasn't left yet? What is she waiting for?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Why is she still there, if she has given up on you?


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

I also do not understand why a single man, ex or not, would become so emotionally involved with a woman as ill as my wife is. That seems unfathomable to me. What is he gaining from these constant conversations with her? The topics are very repetitive, concerning feelings about her illness and any pain discomfort she is exeriencing. So far they have not been sexual in nature, though there has been "caring" language. If his intention is sex, why would he be willing to wait a year plus, for it? What is his incentive? That is what I want to know. This man is becoming a thorn in my side. What is his motive?

Sara8: I do believe she is attempting to avoid guilt by having me file. So she can say to herself that the things she thinks about me are true. That she became useless to me after becoming ill, so I threw her away. That is the furthest thing from the truth.

Sadandangry: I am trying. But how can I show her I am a good listener if she won't talk to me. How can i cuddle with and comfort her when she doesn't want me to touch her. How I can show her empathy and sympathy when she refuses to tell me about her daily pains and discomfort? I am unsure as to why she hasn't left yet. Maybe she feels she has nowhere to go? I do not believe she has talked to her ex about moving in with him. Or maybe she is waiting for me to 'put her out'. I really don't know
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> calling my issues petty. They did not seem petty to me. The lack of sex, dirty house were genuine issues that I had.


And she accuses you of having no empathy? 

I can't imagine why.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> I also do not understand why a single man, ex or not, would become so emotionally involved with a woman as ill as my wife is.


Right. Cos she's damaged goods now, right?

meh

You haven't learned _anything_.



shocknawe said:


> That she became useless to me after becoming ill, so I threw her away. That is the furthest thing from the truth.


shock, everything you have posted just about screams that it IS the truth. 

Words mean nothing to her any more.

The ONLY chance you have now is to SHOW her. That you can become selfless. That you can care about her more than yourself. That you want to try to understand what she's going through, for HER, not so you can get what you want (your wife to want you again). So far, you're not doing a very good job at this.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> Sara8: I do believe she is attempting to avoid guilt by having me file. So she can say to herself that the things she thinks about me are true. That she became useless to me after becoming ill, so I threw her away. That is the furthest thing from the truth.
> 
> [/i][/size]


You may not have told her she was useless, but you did SHOW her by neglecting her when she needed you most. 

Marriage is in sickness and in health. 

It's totally understandable that she is afraid you will let her down again.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

Tunera: that is how I felt before, but I do not feel that way now.I could care less about the house. I want my wife to be healthy and happy and content with me. That is all I want. She is most certainly not damaged goods, she is a beautiful woman. But I know men, he wants something from my wife, but what? I want to show her that I am selfless, but I feel that she is not giving me the oppurtunity
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You don't ask for an opportunity like that, shock. YOU LIVE IT. 

Every day, every minute. You LIVE it. It is a life change, a soul change. If you really mean it, she will see. 

You are trying to control her. You can't. All you can do is become a better option; she married you for a reason, and she's still there for a reason. Figure out what that better option is, what SHE wants, not what YOU want. 

Try this: Ask her to fill out the Love Buster questionnaire (from marriagebuilders.com; but avoid their forum, it's toxic). It will tell you exactly what you do that hurts her, specifically. Down to leaving the cap off the toothpaste kind of thing. If she won't, try to fill it out yourself FOR her. You need it so you can begin to eliminate your LBs - those things that drain her love for you. Spend the next 2 or 3 months focusing ONLY on that, on eliminating the LBs. 

Then we'll move on to the other stuff.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> Tunera: that is how I felt before, but I do not feel that way now.I could care less about the house.


What about the sex? Are you willing to accept getting none for the next 6 months while you work on your marriage? If not, you may as well just pack up.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> I also do not understand why a single man, ex or not, would become so emotionally involved with a woman as ill as my wife is. That seems unfathomable to me. What is he gaining from these constant conversations with her? The topics are very repetitive, concerning feelings about her illness and any pain discomfort she is exeriencing. So far they have not been sexual in nature, though there has been "caring" language. If his intention is sex, why would he be willing to wait a year plus, for it? What is his incentive? That is what I want to know. This man is becoming a thorn in my side. What is his motive?


Not so fast! A lot of people are genuine capable of showing compassion to others, and some of them can even be male!

To define this as an EA, there should be sexual attraction, and you don't know enough yet. I would rather first try to concentrate on what you can do for her, to try to show her you changed. But beware your motivation is not just to get your 'possession' back.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> She is most certainly not damaged goods, she is a beautiful woman. But I know men, he wants something from my wife, but what?


btw, I'm not buying this. The meanings behind your words don't support it. If you truly saw her as not flawed, it wouldn't even occur to you that someone would see her that way. It IS in you. And she knows it. That is YOUR issue to solve.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Nothing excuses infidelity.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

Turnera: I am trying to live it, but she is not even acnknowledging it. She seems chronically irritated by me. It is hard to always try to seem happy around someone that has such obvious comptempt for you. I know that is my fault. But it is still difficult. I am willing to forgoe sex if it is absolutely neccesary, but that will be a challenge for me, my wife has the body of a model (she did model!) I am very attracted to her, and connect with her emotinally through intimacy. I think that was part of my issue, there was no intmacy when she gotsick, and I desired that intimacy to connect with her.

See listen love: I know males can show empathy. But the caring language leads me to believe that there is moe than support that he wants to give my wife. "I care about you" "I would do anything for you" "you deserve better" "I will always be there for you". That is not the kind of support amarried woman should be getting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> Nothing excuses infidelity.


:iagree::iagree:
I find it interesting that we, on this board, say "no excuse, no justification for cheating"...and that is for EA AND PA...and yet, now some are actually saying "gee, I wonder why she sought attention elsewhere"? Really? So now, because shock's coping skills sucked, he pushed his wife away, etc... it was ok for her to seek that attention elsewhere? Sorry, I'm not buying it. It wasn't true for me, it wasn't true for my husband, and it certainly isn't true for shock & floxie. I stand by what I told floxie: if you want out of the marriage, then leave.... don't cheat. There is NO justification for it. NONE!

Now, shock... what HAVE you done to show her, not tell, but SHOW her that you are sorry for how you treated her...and how are you showing her that she is more important to you than anything else in this world? I still maintain that unless this OM is out, your marriage doesn't stand a chance. And, from the words she and I exchanged in her threads...she isn't willing to give him up.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> Turnera: I am trying to live it, but she is not even acnknowledging it. She seems chronically irritated by me. It is hard to always try to seem happy around someone that has such obvious comptempt for you. I know that is my fault. But it is still difficult. I am willing to forgoe sex if it is absolutely neccesary, but that will be a challenge for me, my wife has the body of a model (she did model!) I am very attracted to her, and connect with her emotinally through intimacy. I think that was part of my issue, there was no intmacy when she gotsick, and I desired that intimacy to connect with her.
> 
> See listen love: I know males can show empathy. But the caring language leads me to believe that there is moe than support that he wants to give my wife. "I care about you" "I would do anything for you" "you deserve better" "I will always be there for you".* That is not the kind of support amarried woman should be getting.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just to clarify... that IS the kind of support a married woman should be getting...but from her HUSBAND, NOT from some OM.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> Turnera: I am trying to live it, but she is not even acnknowledging it. She seems chronically irritated by me. It is hard to always try to seem happy around someone that has such obvious comptempt for you. I know that is my fault. But it is still difficult. I am willing to forgoe sex if it is absolutely neccesary, but that will be a challenge for me, my wife has the body of a model (she did model!) I am very attracted to her, and connect with her emotinally through intimacy. I think that was part of my issue, there was no intmacy when she gotsick, and I desired that intimacy to connect with her.


 Well, that's where the 'in sickness and in health' comes in, right? What if you got hit by a car and were paralyzed? Would you expect her to take care of you every day? Of course you would; you're married. Foregoing sex seems like a pretty good test of your character and intentions, IMO.

Right now, she DOESN'T want you because someone else is meeting her needs. Accept that. Stop whining because you're not getting what you want (no offense, but that's what you're doing). You don't SHOW her to get a reaction out of her. You SHOW her because it's the right thing to do, it's the person you need to be, and it brings you personal peace. NOT to make her do ANYTHING. Got it?

You make the changes and they become PART OF WHO YOU ARE. No matter what happens to her. If you give anything less than that to this process, then you are a faker, a selfish one, and you haven't changed a bit.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> "I care about you" "I would do anything for you" "you deserve better" "I will always be there for you". That is not the kind of support amarried woman should be getting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, it's not. But currently, you have no control over that, do you? All you can do is learn, grow, and become the better choice and hope she sees it. If she doesn't, you're still improving yourself.

Is she wrong to cheat? Of course. But, given your actions, it's almost like you did it first. Acknowledge that, own it, carry the humility, and let that guide who you become. 

Therapy might not hurt, either.

Now, that said, you CAN fight the affair, and you should be. Have you flat out told her you want her to stop?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Well dude, you put yourself into that corner, and you know it. Turnera has nailed it. Your words are nearly useless, you need to set your ego aside, and do. You need to be the man your wife needs. You actually do still need to care about the house, the laundry, the dishes, the cooking, and all the little ****, but you need to be the one to take care of it, because you are capable, and she is not. I don't mean be a doormat, but do your job ad a husband. Support her in her time of sickness. Learn everything you can about her illness. Show her you care, damn it! Not in the way you specifically want to, but in the way she needs you to. You can not connect physically at this point, because you disconnected emotionally. The affection will only come back if you can win back her feelings.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> Tunera: *that is how I felt before*, but I do not feel that way now.I could care less about the house. I want my wife to be healthy and happy and content with me. That is all I want. She is most certainly not damaged goods, she is a beautiful woman. But I know men, he wants something from my wife, but what? I want to show her that I am selfless, but I feel that she is not giving me the oppurtunity
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So when she was sick, in pain, and miserable you didn't want her. 

And now when shes getting back on her feet and attractive again you wanna act like the poor ostracized hubby after all your crap?

Thats how you appear to her. That when she was immobile in bed you couldn't give two sh!ts about her. She can't move and you're seriously complaining about a dirty house. (if shes in bed whose the one dirtying the place up? hmm)

Honestly, thats as retarded as expecting a man with no arms to pitch for the Mets

If you think theres some quick stop way to get her to forget all that in an instant and give you another chance then you're in Neverland sniffing fairy dust pal. 

You're gonna have to show her that you know you failed and never will again. That you can be the man who SHOULD'VE been by her side when she was extremely ill.

That you will do anything to fix this and not just empty words, but to mean it.

This will take months perhaps a year or more and , and during the whole time you'll be getting no guarantees and knowing that if you complain any kind of progress you may have made with her will be nulled.

If that bill is too steep for you, get up from the table now and file for divorce. 

If you want to save your marriage, then you're going to need to get cracking, with anything less than 100% commitment and devotion being unacceptable to not her, but you.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

Maricha75: thank you! There is no excuse for what she is doing with this man. She is a married woman. I messed up, I admit that. And I am trying to fix it, but I feel like since she thinks she has better options than me, that she is not acknowledging what I am doing. I'm sure I could do more than I am, but this is a process for me. I have never been a caretaker. But I do love her. I know she doesn't want to give him up. He is her "friend" and listens to her etc. I have not been the most faithful person to her either admittedly. But I am trying to change all of that

Turnera: it is hard to just become a caretaker. I have never been in this position before. My wife looks healthy. Ifyou saw her walking down the street, you wouldn't know she was so sick. I can understand a broken leg or nose or a concussion. But this is different, there is no illness that I can see or fix. I have diabetes but I am not in pain. It hard for me to understand an "invisible" illness WITH pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Huh? I didn't tell you to become her nurse.

And it's HARD for you to understand her illness? Do you realize how bad that makes you look? Who CARES if it's hard for you to understand? YOUR job, as her husband, is to care for her. Period. To look for ways to make her life better. To not put yourself first (except when she's hurting you, as in the case of the affair - THAT you can fight).

And you've cheated?! Good grief.

Just do her a favor and walk away.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did your mom take care of you? I mean, were you expected to pull your weight, growing up, or did mom take care of everything? I'm just curious.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

are you and locke related by any chance?


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Complexity said:


> are you and locke related by any chance?


lol was thinking the same thing


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> You have one card left to play. Show her that you will be fine without her. It may not help because it seems that is exactly what you did when she was ill and she resents you for it.
> 
> When you get tired of being the second choice. File for divorce. That might wake her up or might not.


She can go live happily with her ex, dont let her know of anything before hand and just serve her. She wants freedom? Shes too much of a wimp to leave you. How can a spouse not forive and be full of resentment. Thats no way to love or be loved, your 29, wake her up, if she doesnt youll practically be moved on farther along she will be. 

She has already moved on to the OM, youre still behind, youre stuck. I read floxies thread, another reason why i hold up health and good eating habits for a better mind, body and relationship. There have been numerous tests on rats that our eating habits change character, ability to grow and mature, to cope, anoher reason why depression is a big problem with this over abundance of estraidols/estrogen/xenoestrogens.

Get strong, work on yourself, ignore her for now, dont sweet talk her or say i love you. Dont talk about her EA unless she brings it up, pick up working out, eat mediterrnean/ organic diet, lean out, take lots of vitamins including lots of vitamin c for cortisol/stress, at least 2gm a day, leave her breakfast in the morning, pack her lunch, dont say a word. Let actions speak, it will get harder but if you perservere you will see that your strength and suffering will not be in vain. Im rooting for you. Keep working hard, keep us updated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Suffer silently. She is doing worse to you than you did for her because her torture involves betrayal, yours was a mild form of neglect. Dont whine, or cry, or complain like she did. Be strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> She is doing worse to you than you did for her because her torture involves betrayal, yours was a mild form of neglect.





> I have not been the most faithful person to her either admittedly


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

turnera said:


> Huh? I didn't tell you to become her nurse.
> 
> And it's HARD for you to understand her illness? Do you realize how bad that makes you look? Who CARES if it's hard for you to understand? YOUR job, as her husband, is to care for her. Period. To look for ways to make her life better. To not put yourself first (except when she's hurting you, as in the case of the affair - THAT you can fight).
> 
> ...


Turnera, floxie herself admitted multiple times that they BOTH cheated on each other. This was before she got sick, before the EA... early in the marriage. BOTH were guilty. 

Now, addressing the caretaker role: I didn't do as I should as a WIFE. I turned my attention to another man...or MEN. I had not one, but TWO EAs. I screwed up and looked elsewhere because I didn't cope well with MY HUSBAND'S illness. And then, 6 months ago, I learned he was beginning an EA as well. Guess what? HE was EQUALLY wrong. I was wrong in not doing as I should to care for him. I was wrong for turning to other men for attention. HE was also wrong for turning to another woman for attention. 

The thing is, if floxie isn't willing to give up her OM, we all know that nothing that shock can do will get through. She won't be receptive to ANY change in him as long as the OM is in the picture.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

turnera: i see what you are getting at. I am an only child but was not coddled by my parents growing up. I did have to pull my weight. I did cheat on her before we married, but i have been 100000% faithful as a husband.

Cleanjerksnatch: those are very good suggestions and not just for my marriage. I do have weight and blood pressure issues that i am trying to get under control. I am not much of a cook, but i do think she would enjoy me fixing, or at least attempting, to fix her breakfast and lunch. She eats small things through out the day, has acid reflux because of her illness so she has some dietary restrictions, has ibs as well since the drug. I do hate what this medication has done to her. I wish she could see that. I am not a cold heartless bully. I am her husband and i love her. My actions may not have always been loving. But my feelings never changed.

Who is locke?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

In context, you probably don't want to know who Locke is. That said, maybe it would be instructive to look up his posts. If you do the point won't be to identify with him, but rather to learn what there is to be learned from his mistakes. I write this not having actually read a word he has posted.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Locke is your free mentor of how to be a selfish, narcissistic, incapable of displaying empathy douche bag who cheated on his wife who was the only one with a job while he did nothing but eat sleep and sh!t all day and night. And the woman he cheated on her with was her boss who used that business relationship to give his sole earner wife steeper harsher work hours so he could have better timed booty calls. 

After all this he is not sorry, hes truly sorry he got caught than anything else. He also believes that his wife being the beneficiary of his 'love' clearly and undisputedly grants and entitles him to a 2nd chance. 

Any TAM posters, am I missing anything?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> turnera: i see what you are getting at. I am an only child but was not coddled by my parents growing up. I did have to pull my weight.


Well, something in your childhood resulted in your self-absorbed attitude. It would do you well to explore that with an IC; given what's described about y'all's marriage, it sounds like you've both spent the whole time with Independent Behavior, no connection, and no caring more for each other than yourselves. If you DO get back on track, that will have to be addressed.

Now, on to the EA. What have you done to stop it?


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

turnera: I do suffer from social anxiety and depression. It causes me to withdraw alot or search for 'damaged' women that make me feel needed, i guess. This i believe was the cause of my sex addiction. My wife is a highly confident woman, not very 'needing' of me typically. The main thing i have done to get her to stop is to just tell her to stop, that i do not like it etc. I have also met up with her and this man when they were at brunch.

Should i inform her that i am now posting on this board?


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Don't be a leech. Stop being so attached, be strong and improve yourself. You have to become a strong pillar, you have to be strong for your wife. Stay away from foods that are high in estrogen. Don't masturbate or use porn the physiological affects of it may feel as if you are relieved but what you feel is a temporary relief, lazinezz, dopamine satisfaction, killing the dopamine that should be used for other productive measures which further spirals you downward causing depression. 

Increase your testosterone, you can even take some saw palmetto to increase your testosterone, exercise as well. This will kill the depression FAST, testosterone also increases the pain threshold, meaning things that were physically painful before are less painful now. Focus on yourself, make yourself more attractive, the first step for that is to feel more attractive, be confident, testosterone is a strong driving force mixed with dopamine, the love formula is all chemical in the brain.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, it's typically advised that, if you ask your spouse to stop cheating, and they refuse, then your next step is to expose the affair to her important people. Your case is kind of muddied, but I think the advice still stands.

You can't win her back as long as she's pouring her heart out to another guy. He has to be GONE. Tell her important people and ask them for help; tell them that you will gladly work on your marriage with her to make it better, or at least see if it can be salvaged - and if, AFTER that (and after she goes No Contact with OM), you two can't salvage the marriage, you'll respect her wishes and walk away. But it won't work if there's a third person she's putting her energy into. 

Expect her to be mad. Ignore it. It's the fogbabble of a crack addict and you just endangered her supply line to her crack (OM). Your marriage can survive her anger; but not a third person.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Thats good advice turnera, I then add that she may get mad as you said but you shocknawe need to get mad as well. Anger is not necessarily a bad thing, it is an emotion just like any other that can be used for good, just as love of bad things is bad and love of good things is good, and hate for horrible things is good and hate for innocent ones is bad.

Here is one reality, she will compare the OM to you, and if you are a deadbeat loser nice guy who is easily walked all over, complacent, too clingy than you are not attractive. A lion does not let a hyena take his female. No way. Not even the left overs.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

Cleanjerksnatch:that is all very good advice. I appreciate it. I am trying to make myself more attractive, I have alot that i need to work on with myself. I am not a deadbeat but do consider myself a 'nice guy'. I doubt my wife would agree with that perception though. I can be clingy over her, she really is a catch, and not just in the looks department.

turnera: my wife is not very close to her father so it would be useless to expose to him. During the beginning of her illness, she would speak with her mom excessively imo so i discouraged it. She was sharing personal details about our marriage that made me look like a terrible person which was upsetting. Her mother now dislikes me, as do her brothers that she is fairly close to. I do believe her mom would encourage us to divorce now. Outside of that, she does not have any friends or anyone that i can say she looks up too.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> Cleanjerksnatch:that is all very good advice. I appreciate it. I am trying to make myself more attractive, I have alot that i need to work on with myself. I am not a deadbeat but do consider myself a 'nice guy'. I doubt my wife would agree with that perception though. I can be clingy over her, she really is a catch, and not just in the looks department.
> 
> turnera: my wife is not very close to her father so it would be useless to expose to him. During the beginning of her illness, she would speak with her mom excessively imo so i discouraged it. She was sharing personal details about our marriage that made me look like a terrible person which was upsetting. Her mother now dislikes me, as do her brothers that she is fairly close to. I do believe her mom would encourage us to divorce now. Outside of that, she does not have any friends or anyone that i can say she looks up too.


Become the person she will look to/up to. It takes work. You can be a nice guy but a nice guy does not allow his wife to go have brunch with her ex bf when she can have brunch WITH YOU. As I said make her breakfast and pack her lunch, why does she need to go to brunch when you made her breakfast and lunch? Let your actions speak. She's worse now that she is healthy than when she was a sick cripple.
Stop talking to her about your needs, don't even talk to her, if anything just let her know you STRICTLY disapprove of her relationship with her ex and her meetings and leave it at that in the most firm way possible. 
You need to shed this previous self and emerge a different person. Start NOW, TODAY!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> I am trying to make myself more attractive
> 
> During the beginning of her illness, she would speak with her mom excessively imo *so i discouraged it*. She was sharing personal details about our marriage that made me look like a terrible person which was upsetting. Her mother now dislikes me, as do her brothers that she is fairly close to. I do believe her mom would encourage us to divorce now. Outside of that, she does not have any friends or anyone that i can say she looks up too.


Wow. I just don't know what to say to you, shock. This is such a weird case. You have such a BAD litany of being such a piss-poor husband that I feel conflicted even helping you.

Personally, all things aside...my wish for you would be for you to lose your wife - at least for now - and have to spend the next year or two by yourself so you can come to grips with how flawed your code of conduct seems to be. You need A LOT OF WORK, my friend.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> Cleanjerksnatch:that is all very good advice. I appreciate it. I am trying to make myself more attractive, I have alot that i need to work on with myself. I am not a deadbeat but do consider myself a 'nice guy'. I doubt my wife would agree with that perception though. I can be clingy over her, she really is a catch, and not just in the looks department.
> 
> turnera: my wife is not very close to her father so it would be useless to expose to him. During the beginning of her illness, she would speak with her mom excessively imo so i discouraged it. She was sharing personal details about our marriage that made me look like a terrible person which was upsetting. Her mother now dislikes me, as do her brothers that she is fairly close to. I do believe her mom would encourage us to divorce now. Outside of that, she does not have any friends or anyone that i can say she looks up too.


"She really is a catch."

You talk about how gorgeous & model-like your wife is over & over, but question why another man would be into a "sick woman?"

Are you sure your a "in sickness & health" guy or more of a "healthy model-wife" guy?

I would NEVER stay with a man who wasn't supportive of me if I got sick on top of cheating or sex addiction or whatever you want to call it.

No kids? Let her go. She found somebody else.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't mean to sound harsh but you didn't support her and attempted to isolate her from people who did. No wonder she see's you more of a enemy than a husband.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> turnera: my wife is not very close to her father so it would be useless to expose to him. During the beginning of her illness, she would speak with her mom excessively imo so i discouraged it. *She was sharing personal details about our marriage that made me look like a terrible person* which was upsetting. Her mother now dislikes me, as do her brothers that she is fairly close to. I do believe her mom would encourage us to divorce now. Outside of that, she does not have any friends or anyone that i can say she looks up too.


I know some have lambasted you for isolating her from those who were supportive.... I have a different thought... what kinds of personal info was she sharing with her mother? I'll be honest. I painted my husband in a horrible light too. And my parents were BOTH hopping on the "divorce him" bandwagon. 

Look, I'll agree...you sucked. You sucked big time as a husband when she got sick. Now, you need to do a LOT to try to fix this. But she does too. She has already said she wants to end the marriage and is just biding her time while she gets better. I do remember THAT much from her other threads. 

Sigh...really, I don't think it matters what you do or do not do at this point. She was quite adamant that she wanted out. She was quite adamant that the OM was going nowhere. Unless she goes NC with that guy, there is really no point in trying to fix the marriage.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

abitlost said:


> I don't mean to sound harsh but you didn't support her and attempted to isolate her from people who did. No wonder she see's you more of a enemy than a husband.


Funny, I read the comment about the discouraging her from talking so much to her mom as she was divulging things that should have been husband/wife only info... And isolating her from the OM? Who WOULDN'T be trying to keep their spouse from seeing an OM/OW? Seriously? My husband discouraged, even got pissed off at me because I was talking to my mom so much. Honestly? In his case, he was right. I was telling my mother WAY more than I should have. Now, we always say "too bad we don't have both sides...I agree, he sucked when she was sick. I sucked when my husband got sick. But it doesn't make me a horrible wife. Any more than him saying he didn't want me telling EVERYTHING to my mom made him a bad husband.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, given the type of husband he's turning out to be, I'm GLAD she talked to her mom about him! And you misread the post - he got her to stop talking to her mother and brothers - not the OM.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Funny, I read the comment about the discouraging her from talking so much to her mom as she was divulging things that should have been husband/wife only info... And isolating her from the OM? Who WOULDN'T be trying to keep their spouse from seeing an OM/OW? Seriously? My husband discouraged, even got pissed off at me because I was talking to my mom so much. Honestly? In his case, he was right. I was telling my mother WAY more than I should have. Now, we always say "too bad we don't have both sides...I agree, he sucked when she was sick. I sucked when my husband got sick. But it doesn't make me a horrible wife. Any more than him saying he didn't want me telling EVERYTHING to my mom made him a bad husband.


My point was that it's easy to see how the situation got to where it is now NOT saying how dare try to stop her talking to a possible other man.
She was ill and wasn't getting support from her husband so went to talk to her mom, I really don't see that as a bad thing, it's better to that when ill then bottle things up when physically ill the last thing someone needs is bottled up mental pressure.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

turnera said:


> Wow. I just don't know what to say to you, shock. This is such a weird case. You have such a BAD litany of being such a piss-poor husband that I feel conflicted even helping you.
> 
> Personally, all things aside...my wish for you would be for you to lose your wife - at least for now - and have to spend the next year or two by yourself so you can come to grips with how flawed your code of conduct seems to be. You need A LOT OF WORK, my friend.


I have not been the best husband. I know that. When she got sick, i was caught off guard. I was dealing with alot of stuff, and i can admit that i was irritated with her for being so needy. I did not understand the severity of what she was experiencing. It just seemed that she was coming up with complaint after complaint, needed doctor after doctor, this procedure, that exam. She looked healthy but she was claiming to be so ill. I thought she was being a hypochondriac. It did annoy me, she was like a child almost. 

But i now know that my thinking then was flawed, i joined her support group, read all the stories, and her messages to this 'friend'. I realized that she had not been lying. And i felt like a complete idiot! I let her down, and now this man is just waiting for her ok and i bet he'll be all over her. I don't want to lose her.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

turnera said:


> Well, given the type of husband he's turning out to be, I'm GLAD she talked to her mom about him! And you misread the post - he got her to stop talking to her mother and brothers - not the OM.


No, I did not misread the post. If you read what I said... I QUOTED the part about him discouraging her talking to her mom so much...and why? because she was giving personal information about the marriage. And, I said my OWN husband said the same thing to me about talking to my mom so much. I also asked shock what kinds of things she told her mom. I guess you missed that part as well in my post? I know from experience exactly how easy it is to tell mom and dad how horrible my husband is... and they fed into it. We don't know the extent of the conversations. We don't know if mom had any ill feelings toward shock BEFORE the illness. It is likely she did, if floxie was telling her about the infidelity early on...and if she omitted her OWN cheating? Yes, mom is definitely gonna be pissed that he is treating her daughter so poorly. 

No, I am NOT excusing his treatment of her when she got sick. I think he was an ass toward her. But MY point is that if he is truly trying to fix this marriage at ALL, he has a LOT of work ahead of him...and it isn't gonna happen if the OM is still in the picture. It just ain't happening.

Now, shock, you wanna show her you are changed? When she has a flare up, hold her. Tell her how you wish you could take even a fraction of the pain from her. AND MEAN IT! Trust me, she will know if you don't!

When she can hardly move to do any housework, YOU do it. If she can't walk to the table to eat dinner, either carry her out there or bring it to her. You wanna eat healthier? Look up recipes and learn to cook! Find things that she can eat now, and make them for her. 

She is in too much pain for sex? HOLD her, tell her it's ok. I'm not gonna lie, not having sex SUCKS... but if you want her to believe you really mean it, these are the things you need to do.

What is her love language? Do you even know? If not, FIND OUT... and SPEAK to her in that language.

Again... none of this will matter if she doesn't get the other guy out. But, we all know that. :-/


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

abitlost said:


> I don't mean to sound harsh but you didn't support her and attempted to isolate her from people who did. No wonder she see's you more of a enemy than a husband.


I was not trying to isolate her from people that supported her. I didnt understand why she needed so much support all of sudden, she only talked to her mom maybe once a week before, now she was calling her multiple times a day? That would confuse anybody i bet!

And then the things she was telling her mom, it made me defensive. You would think i was beating on her or something the way she described it. If i got irritated and slammed a door a little hard she'd describe it as though the whole house was shaking and i was stomping around like a mad man.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

I am actually glad that she had her mom to talk to looking back on it. Her mom did seem to calm her anxiety and fears and she would often talk with her until she would fall asleep on the phone with her. I think that if her mom had not been there, she would have attached herself to this other man even sooner. 

As far as i can tell, her mother is unaware of either of our infidelities. My wife is a very private person and more likely to write her thoughts out than speak them. 

I know i am coming off like i was just this monster of a husband. and i can admit that i was not the best. But i love my wife. I was confused and taken off guard with her illness. And it took so long for her to be diagnosed with anything. Did i think she was being lazy then? yes. Do i think that now, no, of course not!

Reading through some of the emails she wrote me back in july 2011, it breaks my hearts. She was really reaching out to me. Practically gave me a step by step handbook. And i blew it off, and her.


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## constant_ache (Jul 10, 2011)

shocknawe said:


> I was not trying to isolate her from people that supported her. I didnt understand why she needed so much support all of sudden, she only talked to her mom maybe once a week before, now she was calling her multiple times a day? That would confuse anybody i bet!
> 
> And then the things she was telling her mom, it made me defensive. You would think i was beating on her or something the way she described it. If i got irritated and slammed a door a little hard she'd describe it as though the whole house was shaking and i was stomping around like a mad man.


I had my husband do this after I was sick from cipro. At the 6 month point. It wasn't about my illness, he just did this in general to something. I don't think he was getting his way at the time.

I told he was acting like a baby, and that I wasn't his mother. If he wanted to live in a household with me, he'd use words, not teenage actions to express himself.


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## constant_ache (Jul 10, 2011)

Shock,

Let me preface this by saying that I know exactly what you're wife is going through. Not just a little, because I've had an illness. I've had the exact same side effects as her, and even more than the tendonitis, I suffered a torn achilles because of it.

With that being said, you say you didn't believe her because she looked fine? You mean atrophying of her muscles wasn't enough for you? 

When you're mid-20's and you're nerves are dying and your muscles are shrinking, that's pretty crazy stuff. 

If you had any doubts, and I question why you even would, it would have taken you an hour to read all of the horror stories on cipro. I wonder why it would have even taken that? Why not take your wife at her word?


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## constant_ache (Jul 10, 2011)

shocknawe said:


> I am actually glad that she had her mom to talk to looking back on it. Her mom did seem to calm her anxiety and fears and she would often talk with her until she would fall asleep on the phone with her. I think that if her mom had not been there, she would have attached herself to this other man even sooner.
> 
> As far as i can tell, her mother is unaware of either of our infidelities. My wife is a very private person and more likely to write her thoughts out than speak them.
> 
> ...


It was 6 months later before my worse symptoms set in, and $35K later. 

One of my Dr's asked me, _how are you coping through this_? I said _okay, I'm trying to be positive_. My Dr looked at me and said _are you kidding me? with as many tests as you've had_? 

He then told me to see a therapist to deal with the emotional toll this had taken, and if I had a family member to rely on.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> I was not trying to isolate her from people that supported her. I didnt understand why she needed so much support all of sudden, she only talked to her mom maybe once a week before, now she was calling her multiple times a day? That would confuse anybody i bet!
> 
> And then the things she was telling her mom, it made me defensive. You would think i was beating on her or something the way she described it. If i got irritated and slammed a door a little hard she'd describe it as though the whole house was shaking and i was stomping around like a mad man.



Im sorry I should have given more detail I ment that was her impression of what you did more than your intention.
It's hard because it sounds like you were very ignorant (please don't take offence) of her illness and pain and that ignorance caused alot of pain.
Unfortunantly the worst thing happened to her while she was ill the person who she trusted to help her through this is the person who caused her emotional pain.
If she is still in the mind frame she was in when she posted on tam getting her to give up the support from her friend (or the posOM) could be near on impossible.
This posOM isn't just a posOM, he is who she see's getting her through her illness.


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## constant_ache (Jul 10, 2011)

shocknawe said:


> and i can admit that i was not the best.


Understatement of the year.

I take this thread seriously, because I've been in the exact same spot as your wife. Still am. Not a day goes by without pain, without a reminder of what a medication as done to me, without fretting about my symptoms and wondering _what if it's something else, what if it isn't just the meds_. 
Not one day.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I feel for your wife. I do not condone the OM. It's not healthy for her or for you, and I wish she was on these boards right now (I'd also like to compare horror stories in regards to cipro).

I'll give you the quick version of my experience, and of course your wife and I will differ on when our symptoms began, the severity, what they were, number of repeat tests done, etc. so I'll leave that out.

I took the med after feeling great physically. It turns out I didn't even have a UTI, but that's another story. Soon after, symptom after symptom began. 
During this time of numerous tests, financial stress, I began to draw away from husband. 
I was always on the internet trying to find out what the heck was wrong with me. I mean, I'm in my 20's.

In 6 months, my husband and I had sex once. Once during a period of 3 or 4 days where my symptoms were manageable. They then came roaring back. 
In this time, my H was pretty good. On one occasion he told me "I think it's all in your head" until I tore something and the doctor set him straight. That was the end of that.
Then he saw the atrophy and felt horrible.

After that, my world changed. Life gets short. You quality of life is diminished to nothing and you wish for even the normal bad days to come back. You realize what you took for granted, how short life is, and how you don't want to spend it unhappy.

It was hard for my h to accept these changes in me. I no longer engaged him when he acted like a child. It was no longer a trigger for me. I rose above it and did not enable it anymore.
Change was scary for him. 

I put it to him frankly one day. Life was too short and too precious. If he continued to act that way, like a child, I'd leave him. We had no children, I have nothing to lose. I want to live my life to the fullest. 
It's hard for him now to accept this new person. Change always is.

It's time for you to start loving your wife unconditionally, if she's not too far gone. Not by words. It isn't about you. Don't even say "I didn't understand what was going on" or "I didn't understand why you had to call your mother." It wasn't about you, it was about her pain. Rather, say "I'm so sorry that I treated that way, and caused you more emotional pain. I should have never questioned you."

You have some issues, and you need to address those.

She needs to get back on these boards and lose the OM, regardless if you stay together or not.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

constant_ache said:


> Shock,
> 
> Let me preface this by saying that I know exactly what you're wife is going through. Not just a little, because I've had an illness. I've had the exact same side effects as her, and even more than the tendonitis, I suffered a torn achilles because of it.
> 
> ...


The atrophying of her muscles was very gradual, it took months before it was actually visible that she would be unable to stand. By this time, her ex was already in the picture. The weight loss and hair loss was also gradual. Its not like she just woke up at 95lbs with her hair all gone. Of course i would have recognized that! and gotten her to a doctor right away.

I have never had a drug reaction ever. So i was skeptical that a few pills, she only took 3, could make a person that sick all over their body, It was like every bodily pain that person could experience, she was claiming to experience. It seemed impossible and was overwhelming for me to deal with at that time.

I did eventually join her support group and talk to people. They were very helpful in helping me learn about what they were all experiencing. it was eye opening to say the very least.


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## constant_ache (Jul 10, 2011)

shocknawe said:


> The atrophying of her muscles was very gradual, it took months before it was actually visible that she would be unable to stand. By this time, her ex was already in the picture. The weight loss and hair loss was also gradual. Its not like she just woke up at 95lbs with her hair all gone. Of course i would have recognized that! and gotten her to a doctor right away.


I understand you didn't see it, but she knew her body wasn't right. She knew that something was off. She knows her body well enough to vouch for it. 
You're explaining it away to me, okay. That's fine. But you should drop this with her. I'm sure you've stated it, so she already knows.
Now it's just time to apologize for how wrong you were.
Let me reiterate, it was never about you. It was about her pain. A pain that she attempted to communicate to you, and you refused to believe her. Very devastating to say the least.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

constant_ache said:


> She needs to get back on these boards and lose the OM, regardless if you stay together or not.


She can only get back on the boards if the mods/Chris allow it. She was banned over a month ago. Asking her to come back on her own doesn't really do much good if she got a "hard ban" and is not allowed back. I don't know what exactly caused her ban, but it will take more than just a "please come back floxie" to get her back.

That said, I agree that she SHOULD come back and lose the OM.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

Would it honestly be in my and her best interest to inform her that i am posting on this forum? And to ask her to post? I do not want to upset my wife.


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## constant_ache (Jul 10, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> She can only get back on the boards if the mods/Chris allow it. She was banned over a month ago. Asking her to come back on her own doesn't really do much good if she got a "hard ban" and is not allowed back. I don't know what exactly caused her ban, but it will take more than just a "*please come back floxie" to get her back.
> *
> That said, I agree that she SHOULD come back and lose the OM.


I'm not sure what a hard ban is? Does that mean IP address? Look I read the other thread, and I'm not happy with some folks. It angers me to read the questioning of the severity of her health issues, and I'm simply stating that I can identify with her. Maybe that itself can sway her. Regardless, she needs guidance. That's all that matters.

Shock, are you posting from the same house?


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## constant_ache (Jul 10, 2011)

shocknawe said:


> Would it honestly be in my and her best interest to inform her that i am posting on this forum? And to ask her to post? I do not want to upset my wife.


Shock, my opinion is yes. 

Also if you're not already in therapy sweetie, you need to do this on your own. Regardless if your marriage works out or not, you need to get some issues rectified before you will be a suitable partner for anyone...*but mainly for yourself.
*
Now, we know what you did to mess up. We know what she went through and you don't seem to be disputing what she said (angers me to think people were putting her through the ringer to have her pony up the truth, when that's what she was doing!! ). We also know where she is messing up. I'm not advocating what she's doing, two wrongs don't make a right, and now that she knows how precious life is, she should be valuing yours too and you aren't happy with the status quo (granted, you royally screwed up but you're here now).

So what have you tried to "get her back." After you realized she was truly sick, what measures have you tried? 

I don't think you've addressed that, but if you have, I'll go back and read again.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

I am posting from our home computer. I assume it is what she used to post as well. Or possibly her cell.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> Would it honestly be in my and her best interest to inform her that i am posting on this forum? And to ask her to post? I do not want to upset my wife.


I think, if she wants to come back, she should ask the mods...or admin... to reinstate her. I think you should tell her that you ARE posting here as well. 

From my understanding, constant, a "hard ban" means she can't come back unless those in charge say "ok". Whether that's IP address (likely?) or just the name itself, IDK. That's something the mods would have to explain lol. But yes, if she CAN be reinstated/come back, I think she should.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

To be honest I can't see a way to rebuild this marriage, even wioth om in the picture if you don't step out as a husband.
Do you have any idea about her illness, about the medication, her diet?
Also I don't you are owning your sh1t at all. IU caught me out off guard won't work. It was cruelty, it was a huge displayal of lack of empathy, she KNOWS she can't count with you when things go wrong. Would you stay with a woman who bails when you are at your worst, scared sh!tless? You failed the test.

Start changin from within, she might notice it.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

Shocknawe's story leaves me with a question and that is: Is there ever a point you reach when a marriage cannot be salvaged. I spent about eight years working in a hospital for chronic care, and for childen with disabilities and witnessed how devistating these illnesses can be on marriages. Fact is that only about 15% of those will stay married. It seems that there are some people who can handle the effects of, illness and pain has them and some who can't.. Only you know where you stand and what you really want. i


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Thinkitthrough said:


> Shocknawe's story leaves me with a question and that is: Is there ever a point you reach when a marriage cannot be salvaged. I spent about eight years working in a hospital for chronic care, and for childen with disabilities and witnessed how devistating these illnesses can be on marriages. Fact is that only about 15% of those will stay married. It seems that there are some people who can handle the effects of, illness and pain has them and some who can't.. Only you know where you stand and what you really want. i


Yes, definitely. When one person absolutely refuses to participate, or withdraws completely. Maybe one of the people is just too screwed up, or damaged, or has a personality disorder. Maybe one person just gives up. Maybe they're too deep in the fog to be rational. This situation is close. Even then, the obstinate person might come back and be willing to try later, for what ever reason. Read the stories, strange things happen!


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Acabado said:


> To be honest I can't see a way to rebuild this marriage, even wioth om in the picture if you don't step out as a husband.
> Do you have any idea about her illness, about the medication, her diet?
> Also I don't you are owning your sh1t at all. IU caught me out off guard won't work. It was cruelty, it was a huge displayal of lack of empathy, she KNOWS she can't count with you when things go wrong. Would you stay with a woman who bails when you are at your worst, scared sh!tless? You failed the test.
> 
> Start changin from within, she might notice it.


Pretty much this, I also see you didn't respond to my post.

You were her husband, in sickness and in health, or did a phone go off and you missed that part?

I'm not trying to antagonize you, but you are NOT owning up to your mistakes. 

I was scared, I didn't know what to do, I had problems too, that dirty house wasn't gonna clean itself up, etc she doesn't want to hear that sh!t. 

All she knows is, that when the chips down and she was depending on you, the person closest to her heart, you kicked her, and now you want to play an equal victim after shes getting back on her feet. 

Shes self reliant now. She knows she doesn't need you, that even without OM she can go on with her life just fine without you.

And that if she wants to be in a relationship, shes wondering whether to just start fresh or re-enter her marriage with the baggage you created. How can she put faith in you when to her, you clearly showed your true colors? Some people just can't handle when life throws a slider at the marriage. Some men and women,at the first sign of it bow out, emotionally or just altogether. 

You need to put in 100% effort now. 

The OM and her EA is poison to your relationship, but shes not gonna kick it easily. Shes gonna have to want to, and the only way that happens is if she wants to recommit to you. Blameshifting and empty words won't do the job.

I remember reading one story on Reddit. A woman whose been in a wheel chair for 8 years after a car accident endured the resent of her husband for most of them. The put downs, the insults, the implications. 

She got a surgery and through intense rehab she was back on her feet. The one thing that sickened most was her husband acting to friends and family as if he was in her corner the whole time and to her privately how 'grateful' she should be with what he had to endure. 

She left him, no exit affair either, she just said she wanted to start her life over, and definitely wanted to do it without him. The husband actually posted on the thread saying much of the "that was then, this is now" crap that your peddling here but she still left his ass and after an update 7 months ago shes been enjoying everyday since.

Please, for the sake of your marriage. Check your ego at the door, *OWN UP TO WHAT YOU DID* and put in the effort needed to restore her faith in you that you shattered.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Thos hits way to close to home for me. Instead of a med induced illness I am dealing with an auto-immune disease called multiple sclerosis. What is it and how does it relate you ask?

Let me describe to you what MS does have the potential to do to the body. First, MS is a disease that causes the immune system to, primarily, attqck what is called the myalin sheath of the nerves, spinal cord, brain and organs. This causes scar tissue to form (hence sclerosis of the involving systems such as nerves, organs, etc) .

This can cause a multitude of physical and neurological symptoms from altered gait, lack of balance, extreme fatigue, physical pain, shock sensations across the skin and even paralysis, seizures, cardiac problems and blindness...

I deal with this every day! I can see why she views your initial reaction to her sudden illness as cold, unsupportive and demeaning. When a person suddenly finds themselves faced with such a debilitating disease the last thing that person expects from the person who vowed to love, honor and cherish them in health and in sickness is to do what you did to her.

You essentially demolished her emotionally, spiritually and mentally worse than the disease did. It's a different kind of betrayal altogether when ones spouse is, for all intents and purposes, saying I don't support you in your time of need and don't believe you, it's all in your head. She is stronger than I, the way you treated her would be an absolute deal breaker for me. Luckily, my husband both believes me and supports me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> I have not been the best husband. I know that. When she got sick, i was caught off guard. I was dealing with alot of stuff, and i can admit that i was irritated with her for being so needy. I did not understand the severity of what she was experiencing. It just seemed that she was coming up with complaint after complaint, needed doctor after doctor, this procedure, that exam. She looked healthy but she was claiming to be so ill. I thought she was being a hypochondriac. It did annoy me, she was like a child almost.
> 
> But i now know that my thinking then was flawed, i joined her support group, read all the stories, and her messages to this 'friend'. I realized that she had not been lying. And i felt like a complete idiot! I let her down, and now this man is just waiting for her ok and i bet he'll be all over her. I don't want to lose her.


 That's very good to hear. Thank you. 

As for your wife, you can do the regular - fight the affair and THEN try to show her you are now trustworthy. But I think it's a longshot. I think, if anything, you should settle on living separately and proving from another home, over the next couple years, that you HAVE matured, grown a conscience, and learned what a jerk you are. As much as she's suffered, and if she gives up OM, who is providing her what YOU should have been providing her all along (except that he's complicit in an affair), she will be very lonely, very sick, very much lost. Seeing you show a couple years of steadfastness and dignity and character could go a long way to become the person she needs. You're not there yet.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Kasler said:


> All she knows is, that when the chips down and she was depending on you, the person closest to her heart, you kicked her, and now you want to play an equal victim after shes getting back on her feet.
> 
> You need to put in 100% effort now.


Exactly. IMO, the ONLY way I would ever trust you again is if you go 100% selfless and can CARRY that selflessness for at least a year. If you can't do that, can't be 100% about me for at least a year, without getting mad, petty, whiny, asking for sex, then I would know you are not a suitable partner_ for what I will have to go through_ for the rest of my life. It won't be pretty. If you can't prove you love me for ME and_ not for what I can give you_, then I won't want to waste any more time on you, only to be disappointed and brokenhearted again later.

Are you up to it? Are you done asking for sex? Are you done talking about anything but her for the time being? Are you picking up the slack and making every move about making her life more comfortable so she can heal?


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

I told my wife that I am posting here, I am not sure if she cares... or if she will join me. But we'll see I suppose

Acabado: I am trying to learn more about her illness. There is so much to learn. Her symptoms seem to vary day to day and wax and wane. Her mood can change in just a moments notice. I know I failed and ****ed up big time. I'm not trying to make excuses for my behavior, but if she won't really give me the oppurtunity to show her that I'm changing. How can things get better?

Kasler: I know she doesn't 'need' me now, but I want her too. I really ruined her trust in me and I know she no longer respects. The stuff she writes about me in her journal, it seems like she hates me. I just have a gut feeling tat if the om was out of the picture, I would have a chance to regain her trust and her respect. I didn't 'mistreat' my wife because she was sick. I was just scared and behaved like a boy instead of her husband. I know that I am changing, and I could improve even more if she would help me. I want to be a better person for her and for myself.

CantePe: I am so sorry for what you're going through. I know I betrayed her. And what an idiot I was too think I knew her pain better than she knew it. That is ridiculous isn't it. I was being cold towards her, when she needed me the most no less. I technically 'get' why she turned to this man for support. The only man in her life at the time was me, and I was treating her like ****. I wish I could transcribe her jounal here. Reading it is heartbreakin. I never knew my wife could feel so angry with anyone, and certainly not with me.

I will be back to respond to the rest of the posts soon. Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to respond and assist me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Shock,

You talk too much, instead you could do things, don't respond so much, better report. Maybe you have ADHD.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

shocknawe, Do. Start doing it. Without expectation.
Start caring, start loving (as a verb). Susprise her, learn to cook. Watch her, read her body language, learn when she's in pain, learn what she needs. Ask her, engage. Be present. 
Do marriagebuilders site, read her needs his needs, love busters, the 5 love langages.
The "old dogs & new tricks" thing. Consistently, patiently.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

What about her meds? Do you know names, doses?


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

shocknawe said:


> CantePe: I am so sorry for what you're going through. I know I betrayed her. And what an idiot I was too think I knew her pain better than she knew it. That is ridiculous isn't it. I was being cold towards her, when she needed me the most no less. I technically 'get' why she turned to this man for support. The only man in her life at the time was me, and I was treating her like ****. I wish I could transcribe her jounal here. Reading it is heartbreakin. I never knew my wife could feel so angry with anyone, and certainly not with me.
> 
> I will be back to respond to the rest of the posts soon. Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to respond and assist me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't want you to think that I condone her EA - I absolutely DO NOT. There is NO, ABSOLUTELY NO excuse in any book existent or not for either an emotional affair or physical one. That's not how adults conduct themselves or behave in a relationship regardless of where that relationship is.

I have no tolerance or sympathy for cheating behaviors. Point in case: My neighbor was sleeping with a married woman and I ground him to a pulp every chance I got and gave him an arse ripping for it. I ripped her a new one and too telling her confess or I do it for you...

Let's just say he's not sleeping around with her anymore and it didn't take me long to make that one happen. I don't give a rat's arse if your spouse is Spock with no emotions or Jabba the Hut cruel... there is no excuse for an affair of any kind. If one is unhappy - LEAVE. That is as simple as it gets.

So don't think I condone her actions at all, I didn't mean to ignore that part of your post just that her illness really hit very close to my own life.

An illness that is "unseen" is very hard to deal with. Just because people can't see your illness or what we call the invisible illness (autism, MS, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, heart problems, the list goes on) doesn't mean that person is a hypochondriac or an attention ***** or lying. It's hard enough to get the medical profession to believe us when we say it hurts know what I mean...

It hurts to be told - you are lying, you are attention seeking, you are this or that...

Recently, last summer I had some issues with my cardiac health and this town I live in is full of addicts looking for a fix. I had a DOCTOR who saw my tattoos, saw my age and said "you must be a coke addict, those are all symptoms of coke addiction". I haven't done coke a day in my life. She biased herself toward me because of what I looked like. I have DOCUMENTED cardiac defects and problems including paternal and maternal direct links as well as my own medical history. I had to file complaints but let me tell you how I felt.

I felt worthless, belittled, like I wasn't worth an iota of time to this supposed "professional". I was less than human to her, the way she sneered at me and refused to write down any of the symptoms, refused to do blood work or even touch me. I'm a mom of 5 kids and wife of 14+ years who has never done drugs in her life. Heck I won't even use narcotic prescriptions - told a doctor to shove it where the sun don't shine because that crap was not going in my system (had pneumonia complication from H1N1 a year previous to the incident I am relaying).

To be made worthless like that was really mind numbingly shocking. Shocked me so bad I was speechless (I am very verbal, I don't take crap from nobody). I couldn't do anything but nod my head and hold back tears. I called my husband bawling after that. I DO NOT CRY IN PUBLIC - I did that day...

It's devastating really...but still no excuse to have an affair.

Like the others are saying, start doing rather than saying. The more you prove through actions that you can be there for her - just simply bring her her favorite meal or drink without asking, tell her to say "I'm just not up to this today", let her sleep in, take a day off work and cater to her - it will work if you do things for her. Take her to her appointments, make the appointments for her if she is in too much pain to do it, pick up the slack in the house chores...Don't ask her what you can do, do what you know she needs by being aware of the environment (see that laundry is piling up or the dishes - get them done. That's a sign she is incapable due to her illness, she cannot function enough physically to do those chores). Just keep at it and it could turn around.

Write her a letter, keep apologizing, keep trying to communicate too.... just keep at it.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Maybe if you sit down with her and say something like 'I really didn't like the person I have been in the past, I see that I have really bad coping skills and see the pain it caused, I am going to work on myself because I really don't want to be that person' and then work on them on your own (if your genuinely working on yourself she WILL see a difference)
she might get to a point where she doesn't feel she need her friend as her support person and may start to feel comfortable enough to start to distant herself from him slowly (it could take some time).
I think groundwork is going to have to be done before she will be willing to even consider detaching from the posOM.
When there is someone/something is causing emotional pain when someone is ill the subconscious perceives
that person/thing as a attacker and does everything it can to try to detach or remove itself from the person/thing.
When theres a illness of anykind you subconscious is working on overdrive to get someone through it anyway it can.
I know it no excuse for the posOM but survival instincts/drive has no consideration for marriage all it cares about is getting someone through physical/mental stress as intact as possible.

You working on yourself needs to be for you, it will help you with you coping mechanism and benefit all around.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

Minor update I suppose...

My wife had an endoscopy done yesterday to see how her acid reflux and stomach are doing. Doctor said things looked ok, but gonna wait for the pathology report before giving out any diagnoses. She had to be put under for the endoscopy which took maybe 45 minutes, so she was under for a while. But when she woke up, the first thing she said was "I love you". That felt really nice to hear from her.

I took her home and got her in bed, throat and stomach were sore because of the endoscope so I got her some soup and bit of water and was going to leave her so she could relax, but she asked me to stay and cuddle with her! That hasn't happened in a very long time.

I'm just hoping these aren't just the effects of the propofol she'd been under...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Great update. Keep up the work!
Text her, call her to find out how she's feeling.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

Well... I'm back

and the EA is still going on, seems lessened though, no brunch dates since her endoscopy last month and her journal entries seem kinder towards me, which is very cool. 


My wife's birthday is in a week, the 25th. I have alot of things planned for us. Hot stone massage at her favorite spa place, dinner with her mom and brothers, and i have a couple of tickets for Cirque Du Soleil at Atlantic Station. She doesn't know any of this yet but i believe she'll love it. She's a really big "quality time" person. I know it makes her feel loved. I've also got her a pair of gold earrings (that means alot because she stopped wearing jewelry when she first got sick)

I am trying to decide if i should say anything about the EA during her b-day celebrations and if so, what? I don't want to f up the day.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

shocknawe said:


> I am trying to decide if i should say anything about the EA during her b-day celebrations and if so, what? I don't want to f up the day.


Wow, no, I would not. 

Do you want her to always associate her birthday with a conversation like that?

I hope and pray and fiercely believe I'd never enter an emotional affair--but god bless, if my husband brought that up on a day that was intended to be celebrated, I'd have a mighty hard time forgetting that.

You don't want the dates inextricably linked, either.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> I've also got her a pair of gold earrings (that means alot because she stopped wearing jewelry when she first got sick)


Was it due some allergy linked to her weird illness? Be sure it's right. Find it out.

What if you suggest to fill the "Emotional needs" and "Love buster" quizzes from marriagebuilders?

Don't ever mention OM, the EA, nothing. Keep up the work. Gestures in significant dates are very good. Everyday things are better, way better. Keep it up.

Great plans for her birthday.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What is the current nature of her EA ? I remember her describing him as an emotional support when you left her and nothing beyond. Does she know that you read her journals ?

And are you guys still having sex? I remember her posts resenting you for it.


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

No, it wasn't an allergy, though she does have genuine allergies to certain metals that she's always had.

It was the hair and weight loss mostly, made her feel like she wasn't pretty enough to wear jewelry and nice clothes.

I want to ask her about taking the quizzes, but i just don't know how asking will make me look to her...

But if i never mention the EA or the ex, will it ever end? I don't want them being friends at all.



Acabado said:


> Was it due some allergy linked to her weird illness? Be sure it's right. Find it out.
> 
> What if you suggest to fill the "Emotional needs" and "Love buster" quizzes from marriagebuilders?
> 
> ...


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What is the current nature of her EA ? I remember her describing him as an emotional support when you left her and nothing beyond. Does she know that you read her journals ?
> 
> And are you guys still having sex? I remember her posts resenting you for it.


The nature of it? I don't know.. flirty, caring, emotional relationship i guess. Doesn't seem to be overly sexual on his end towards her yet but she writes about wanting to be intimate with him.

her journal is an online blog type of thing, I'm sure she doesn't know i read it

We are having sex, about once a week, maybe every 10 days or so? always on my initiation. and it's a quickie. every.single.time


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Stop initiating the sex...Have some respect for yourself and your wife's feelings. And that too quickies ? Couldn't get more romantic that ? What do you think she is ? And you wonder why she has so little respect and much disdain for you. 

Have you read her threads and her posts ? She made some posts outside her thread.


Edit: Wait, she wants to be intimate with her EA ? Did she say that ?


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Stop initiating the sex...Have some respect for yourself and your wife's feelings. And that too quickies ? Couldn't get more romantic that ? What do you think she is ? And you wonder why she has so little respect and much disdain for you.
> 
> Have you read her threads and her posts ? She made some posts outside her thread.
> 
> ...


I have tried to stop initiating, but it's really difficult. I am so attracted to her and even more now that she's been acting a little nicer towards me. I end up feeling grumpy when i haven't been able to be with her sexually for too many days. I know thats a problem and something I've got to work on.

I have only read one thread by her... How can i read the others?

She has referenced wanting to be intimate with him, close to him or whatever on her blog. I don't know if it's just talk or what though, can't really tell...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Talk About Marriage - Search Results

check if this link works for you...every thread she started and posted in(so she has atleast one post in threads she did not start). You are in for a shock


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

shocknawe said:


> We are having sex, about once a week, maybe every 10 days or so? always on my initiation. and it's a quickie. every.single.time


 Get this book and ask her to invite you. Invite her once so she can see how it is. For yours, pick one of the more male dominant ones, to take her breath away. Like in the romance novels.
http://www.amazon.com/52-Invitation...8&sr=1-1&keywords=52+invitations+to+great+sex


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Remind me again why you aren't confronting this affair?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

turnera said:


> Remind me again why you aren't confronting this affair?


^^^^^^^^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Talk About Marriage - Search Results
> 
> check if this link works for you...every thread she started and posted in(so she has atleast one post in threads she did not start). You are in for a shock


I'm not shocked... I've read most of it on her journal already, and worse
I probably deserve most of it


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

turnera said:


> Remind me again why you aren't confronting this affair?


I have confronted it, as much as it seems i can anyway. She doesn't think it's an affair, just a "friendship"


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## shocknawe (Jul 8, 2012)

turnera said:


> Get this book and ask her to invite you. Invite her once so she can see how it is. For yours, pick one of the more male dominant ones, to take her breath away. Like in the romance novels.
> 52 Invitations To Grrreat Sex: It All Begins with a Lick: Laura Corn: 9780974259918: Amazon.com: Books


Yeah, so no ready for the embarrassment of this. I'm sure she wouldn't want to invite me. Seems she just barely bares having sex with me now. I doubt she'd want to invite me anywhere but hell right now. Things are better somewhat, but not that much better.That book is something we could've maybe had fun with a couple of years ago, not now


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy and Married Man Sex Life Primer? 

Sounds like he's an alpha and you're a beta and that makes you B.O.R.I.N.G.

These books will show you how to end this farce and get her to care about you again.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I don't think the alpha/beta stuff is the primary driver here. It's that OP utterly failed ad a husband at a time when his wife needed him most. She has little trust, little respect, zero desire for him.

Square one would be a big improvement for him, but he is farther back than square one because he has to overcome his behaviour, just like a cheater would.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

HE cannot even stop having sex with her when she resents him terribly for it..They have passionless "quickies" when he initiates and she just bears with it so that he would leave her for a few more days


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