# Casual sex and avoiding the feels!



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The appeal of casual sex has always been its lack of complications, less requirements, and avoidance of drama.

However, this goes out the window when someone catches the feels. I'm mostly immune to it, I only ever fell in love once and that was like 5 years ago, the rest I loved them but never been in love with them, but in all fairness I'm still overall very fond of my lovers.

BUT it has been noted that cuddles may lead to the "feels"  (and I'm a cuddler 😑)
6-7 years ago when I was into the FWB scene the feels has always been an issue. My last FWB was actually decent enough I "promoted" her to a girlfriend, which didn't last, as she wanted more than I wanted to give. So I broke up with her, and had enough of all the FWB stuff. My last relationship (after her) has also made me had enough of all the lovey dovey stuff.

So, I've come full circle. But cuddles leads to feels? Discussing my FWB dynamics with others it seems the model more closely resembles that of a short term relationship than a FWB or ONS. Non-exclusive FWB arrangements I consider "fbuddies" and only for scratching the itch. Rare I settle for ONS - she has to be really hot for that and I would need to be super horny... like this year 😣. Overall they aren't fun enough for me to F on a regular basis, I like to be friends and build trust with who I'm pummelling, and that trust leads to better sex!

But this hurts people by giving them the feels? So I would need to get rid of cuddles and potentially friendship too? I'm always honest with them so what the hell, is it really my responsibility when they fail to understand the boundaries we both agree on? 'Tis a curious thing...


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Don't know how you do it. Sex is a part of my bond with my wife. Sex for sex sake, I could not separate the two. I think youvare trying to outsmart mother nature. Sex and cuddles, any intimacy causes a release of chemicals that promote bonding (feels) in humans.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Don't know how you do it. Sex is a part of my bond with my wife. Sex for sex sake, I could not separate the two. I think youvare trying to outsmart mother nature. Sex and cuddles, any intimacy causes a release of chemicals that promote bonding (feels) in humans.


It works for me, I cuddled with several past lovers with no issues and they knew we had no future so it was pure fun and sex forfilling our intimate needs without complications.
For the others who start making a fuss after a while in my mind it's like, I told you so - you know?

My last lover didn't even want to be exclusive so sex is obviously very seperated for her, but she didn't want exclusivity so fbuddy she became... until I got bored.

I get the same chemicals! Ain't love to me though.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> The appeal of casual sex has always been its lack of complications, less requirements, and avoidance of drama.
> 
> However, this goes out the window when someone catches the feels. I'm mostly immune to it, I only ever fell in love once and that was like 5 years ago, the rest I loved them but never been in love with them, but in all fairness I'm still overall very fond of my lovers.
> 
> ...


Friendship in of itself is a relationship where feelings are present. So any FWB situation will always include the "Feels" in a sense.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Friendship in of itself is a relationship where feelings are present. So any FWB situation will always include the "Feels" in a sense.


So I'm always going to have drama if I continue my approach?
I don't know if I can just stick to ONSs and fbuddies, it's just not enough for me. 

Not to mention I enjoy bareback sex and that requires FWB-minimum with established trust.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I _liked _my FWB, certainly, but rarely felt more than friendship and sexual attraction _unless _they really were sufficiently compatible to actually consider having a LTR. I had a couple of FWB that lasted _years_, and yes, we cuddled, sometimes spent the night, and did things socially as _friends_. I didn't have any problems with them becoming attached either, but if that had happened, I'd have broken up with them if I didn't want the same; I would not take advantage if they developed unreciprocated feelings.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> So I'm always going to have drama if I continue my approach?
> I don't know if I can just stick to ONSs and fbuddies, it's just not enough for me.
> 
> Not to mention I enjoy bareback sex and that requires FWB-minimum with established trust.


I think it would be fair to say that you are looking for some sort of connection. Maybe you can go into it thinking about it that way?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> So I'm always going to have drama if I continue my approach?


Define drama? Does this mean becoming attached after having sex? If so, your expectation is unreasonable.



> Not to mention I enjoy bareback sex and that requires FWB-minimum with established trust.


Trust? What does this mean? That they even know if they have a disease? Trusting them to tell you?

Both of these criteria seem to fall under the delusional category that we discussed recently. You're asking humans to not be human.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> The appeal of casual sex has always been its lack of complications, less requirements, and avoidance of drama.
> 
> However, this goes out the window when someone catches the feels. I'm mostly immune to it, I only ever fell in love once and that was like 5 years ago, the rest I loved them but never been in love with them, but in all fairness I'm still overall very fond of my lovers.
> 
> ...


I guess it would be fair to say that cuddles leads to feels with you because you sort of prize cuddles over everything else. I don't think it leads to feels with everybody else and I don't think everybody else necessarily cuddles with people they're having casual sex with..


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Long ago, I watched a movie with Miles O'keefe. It was called 'The Drifter'. The Drifter was picked up hitchhiking one day by a young attractive gal.
They ended up making love in the hotel that night. The next morning the gal told the Drifter "Hey, that didn't mean anything last night". 
The Drifter told her; "no, don't you understand, it's a forever thing". 
Not meaning that you have to stay with that person forever necessarily, but like it or not your imprint is on each other forever.

Although it was just a dumb movie, there was an elemental truth in that. 'it's a forever thing'. That stuck with me. It's a forever thing, whether you aknowledge it or not.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm saying that would only hold true for certain people. Kissing toads to me is not a forever thing. It's goodbye and good riddance.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I think people often apply labels to things that are not really a human reality. In terms of healthy human emotional and mental nomenclature, there really is no such thing as "casual sex" as sex in and of it'self is a very personal and intimate endeavor. It's never casual or insignificant. It's a major life component. 

"Casual Sex" was a 1980s term used to indicate a sexual relationship outside of a traditional, committed relationship. That did not mean that it was devoid of emotional connection or feeling of warmth and affection and fondness etc. 

Unless someone is an actual psychopath or sociopath, they will have feelings and some degree of interpersonal connection with someone they are in sexual relationship. 

Could it be that what you are seeking is not so much a sexual relationship devoid of standard human emotions and connection, but rather a relationship that is based on a traditional, committed paradigm where it is presumed or expected to lead to some kind of ongoing commitment, strict exclusivity, eventual cohabitation, marriage, combing financials, coowning property, having children, Christmas dinner at each other's families etc etc etc? 

If you didn't want feelings you wound't be having sex because sex is about having feelings and feelings are what drives sex and sex produces feelings and so on and so on. 

When someone seeks FWBs or "Casual Sex" etc, they are not really trying to avoid feelings. They are trying to avoid commitment and future expectations associated with traditional marriage and family etc. 

You're not trying to avoid the feels, you are trying to avoid Christmas dinner at someone else's family's house. 

You're not trying to avoid feelings of warmth and affection and caring, you're trying to avoid closing down all other future options. 

You're not trying to avoid being close to someone, you are trying to avoid signing binding legal contracts (ie marriage) and mortgages and car payments and insurance policies with them. 

You're not trying to avoid connecting with another human on an intimate level (unless you are a true narcissist, psychopath or sociopath) you are trying to avoid being obligated to taking care of them when they are sick, merging your friends and family with their friends and family and cleaning up baby puke and changing diapers and picking their underwear and dirty socks up off your bedroom floor. 

It's not really about avoiding feelings, you WANT the feelings. It's the commitments and obligations and expectations and dealing with someone else's crap that you are trying to avoid.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> I _liked _my FWB, certainly, but rarely felt more than friendship and sexual attraction _unless _they really were sufficiently compatible to actually consider having a LTR. I had a couple of FWB that lasted _years_, and yes, we cuddled, sometimes spent the night, and did things socially as _friends_. I didn't have any problems with them becoming attached either, but if that had happened, I'd have broken up with them if I didn't want the same; I would not take advantage if they developed unreciprocated feelings.


Yup, that's the type of arrangement I enjoy.



Numb26 said:


> I think it would be fair to say that you are looking for some sort of connection. Maybe you can go into it thinking about it that way?





DownByTheRiver said:


> I guess it would be fair to say that cuddles leads to feels with you because you sort of prize cuddles over everything else. I don't think it leads to feels with everybody else and I don't think everybody else necessarily cuddles with people they're having casual sex with..


But for me defining having a connection is much more sacred and too strong a word for me to use for a friend I just like to F 😅


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

jorgegene said:


> Long ago, I watched a movie with Miles O'keefe. It was called 'The Drifter'. The Drifter was picked up hitchhiking one day by a young attractive gal.
> They ended up making love in the hotel that night. The next morning the gal told the Drifter "Hey, that didn't mean anything last night".
> The Drifter told her; "no, don't you understand, it's a forever thing".
> Not meaning that you have to stay with that person forever necessarily, but like it or not your imprint is on each other forever.
> ...


Well forever as in I enjoyed our Fs and cuddles and smile when I think of them, no dramas from beginning to end - the good ones at least.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

OldShirt "Unless someone is an actual psychopath or sociopath, they will have feelings and some degree of interpersonal connection with someone they are in sexual relationship. "

Key words being "relationship." In the 1970s, one-night stands were common that weren't any kind of relationship. They were just casual sex. Sure, probably you thought the person was attractive or you wouldn't be there, but that isn't exactly "feels."


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> I think people often apply labels to things that are not really a human reality. In terms of healthy human emotional and mental nomenclature, there really is no such thing as "casual sex" as sex in and of it'self is a very personal and intimate endeavor. It's never casual or insignificant. It's a major life component.
> 
> "Casual Sex" was a 1980s term used to indicate a sexual relationship outside of a traditional, committed relationship. That did not mean that it was devoid of emotional connection or feeling of warmth and affection and fondness etc.





> Unless someone is an *actual *psychopath or *sociopath*, they will have feelings and some degree of interpersonal connection with someone they are in sexual relationship.


Errr hehe maybe 🤭



> Could it be that what you are seeking is not so much a sexual relationship devoid of standard human emotions and connection, but rather a relationship that is based on a traditional, committed paradigm where it is presumed or expected to lead to some kind of ongoing commitment, strict exclusivity, eventual cohabitation, marriage, combing financials, coowning property, having children, Christmas dinner at each other's families etc etc etc?


Maybe, I just don't have the will/patience/tolerance/vulnerability/emotional availability for a traditional relationship anymore, but I enjoyed sex and cuddles.



> If you didn't want feelings you wound't be having sex because sex is about having feelings and feelings are what drives sex and sex produces feelings and so on and so on.


Well yeah, it feels good but that's not the 'feels' I'm talking about 



> When someone seeks FWBs or "Casual Sex" etc, they are not really trying to avoid feelings. They are trying to avoid commitment and future expectations associated with traditional marriage and family etc.
> 
> You're not trying to avoid the feels, you are trying to avoid Christmas dinner at someone else's family's house.
> You're not trying to avoid feelings of warmth and affection and caring, you're trying to avoid closing down all other future options.
> ...


Errr I would still help them when they are sick, they are friends.



> It's not really about avoiding feelings, you WANT the feelings. It's the commitments and obligations and expectations and dealing with someone else's crap that you are trying to avoid.


Maybe, but I never really felt these particular feelings that much for FWBs 🤷‍♂️


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

minimalME said:


> Define drama? Does this mean becoming attached after having sex? If so, your expectation is unreasonable.


But several worked out without dramas!



> Trust? What does this mean? That they even know if they have a disease? Trusting them to tell you?


Exactly, and you can't eliminate risk, you can only minimise it. I don't trust anyone, that trust is something I determine for myself.



> Both of these criteria seem to fall under the delusional category that we discussed recently. You're asking humans to not be human.


Then, am I human?


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

I'll never understand how people manage not to fall in love with the person they have sex with.

Its such a personal itch the person helps me scratch. The feeling is literally "thank you so muuuch😭"


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

moon7 said:


> I'll never understand how people manage not to fall in love with the person they have sex with.
> 
> Its such a personal itch the person helps me scratch. The feeling is literally "thank you so muuuch😭"


I am a man, and I could not. Guess that is why I am wrapped around my wife's finger.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> OldShirt "Unless someone is an actual psychopath or sociopath, they will have feelings and some degree of interpersonal connection with someone they are in sexual relationship. "
> 
> Key words being "relationship." In the 1970s, one-night stands were common that weren't any kind of relationship. They were just casual sex. Sure, probably you thought the person was attractive or you wouldn't be there, but that isn't exactly "feels."


You're trying to describe a social construct and applying a value to the word 'relationship' for which I did not intend. (...and probably also describing something that occured under the influence of LSD, heroin or a lot of weed at the time LOL ) 

I used the word 'relationship' as a context in which two people are interrelating. I did not mean it in the context of a traditional, ongoing relationship relationship. 

I'm saying even with ONSs in the '70s, people still had feelings and personal value in regards to the experience. 

They may have only intended it to a night of fun and excitement and pleasure,,, but fun, excitement and pleasure are feels. If we didn't want those feels, we wouldn't be having sex. 

And after being in the swinging lifestyle for many years, I would challenge that of what the lay public calls "casual Sex" or what the lay public tries to pass of as emotion-free sex, is often quite passionate and intense since it carries none of the associated concerns and anxieties of wondering where things are going/does this person love me/does this mean we are a couple,,, and all of those 10,000 other thoughts and questions and concerns that go through people's minds when they are having sex for the first time. 

So again, unless someone is a true narcissist, psychopath or sociopath which make up roughly 5% of population, people are going to have feels and I challenge that they actually WANT to have feels,,, they just simply have a different set of feels and are wanting to avoid the other factors that come with traditional relationships like commitments, financial intertwinements, cohabitation, kids, marriage etc etc etc etc.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> They may have only intended it to a night of fun and excitement and pleasure,,, but fun, excitement and pleasure are feels. If we didn't want those feels, we wouldn't be having sex.


Well by that definition I also have feels when I masturbate! 

Doesn't scratch the itch after a while though


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

moon7 said:


> I'll never understand how people manage not to fall in love with the person they have sex with.
> 
> Its such a personal itch the person helps me scratch. The feeling is literally "thank you so muuuch😭"





BootsAndJeans said:


> I am a man, and I could not. Guess that is why I am wrapped around my wife's finger.


Maybe because I've always been better at compartmentalising my vulnerabilities better than other people? 🤷‍♂️
Or maybe I am a sociopath as previously diagnosed during childhood. But I doubt that now considering I actually like fell in love 5 years ago! Win for having emotions 🤗

But it's not that easy for me to do and that vulnerability/breach in the wall is subconsciously reinforced and will never happen again.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Maybe because I've always been better at compartmentalising my vulnerabilities better than other people? 🤷‍♂️
> Or maybe I am a sociopath as previously diagnosed during childhood. But I doubt that now considering I actually like fell in love 5 years ago! Win for having emotions 🤗
> 
> But it's not that easy for me to do and that vulnerability/breach in the wall is subconsciously reinforced and will never happen again.


I came from a horribly abusive background. I can be completely vulnerable and open with my wife. That is truly beautiful. It also allows us to love each other passionately, deeply and with a true intimacy. Nothing casual could even begin to compete.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

I'm pretty good at compartmentalizing so for a strictly FWB relationship I was careful to pick guys who had some dealbreaker quality that made them absolutely incompatible for a LTR with me i.e. allergic to dogs. Boundaries were always explicitly stated. They weren't "forever" material so no danger of falling in love. Of course I was fond of them to a certain extent, like a buddy. I wouldn't be hopping into bed with someone I didn't at least like as a human being. When the arrangement had run its course there was no acrimony at ending it.

I don't know about cuddling. I'm pretty sure some of that might have taken place and it didn't affect the emotional aspect at all, for either party.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I came from a horribly abusive background. I can be completely vulnerable and open with my wife. That is truly beautiful. It also allows us to love each other passionately, deeply and with a true intimacy. Nothing casual could even begin to compete.


I was completely vulnerable and open with my last ex. It was beautiful. It's also tragic because in the end love was not enough to keep us going.

Not looking for a replacement for that, I'm not capable of it. Looking for what I had 6-7 years ago, minus the damn dramas.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Corgi Mum said:


> *I'm pretty good at compartmentalizing so for a strictly FWB relationship I was careful to pick guys who had some dealbreaker quality that made them absolutely incompatible for a LTR with me i.e. allergic to dogs. Boundaries were always explicitly stated. They weren't "forever" material so no danger of falling in love. * Of course I was fond of them to a certain extent, like a buddy. I wouldn't be hopping into bed with someone I didn't at least like as a human being. When the arrangement had run its course there was no acrimony at ending it.
> 
> I don't know about cuddling. I'm pretty sure some of that might have taken place and it didn't affect the emotional aspect at all, for either party.


Maybe that's the secret ingredient. 

Maybe that's also why I almost never fall in love because I always have so many barriers.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Honestly, I am kind of puzzled why you are on Talk About Marriage to talk about the opposite.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> You're trying to describe a social construct and applying a value to the word 'relationship' for which I did not intend. (...and probably also describing something that occured under the influence of LSD, heroin or a lot of weed at the time LOL )
> 
> I used the word 'relationship' as a context in which two people are interrelating. I did not mean it in the context of a traditional, ongoing relationship relationship.
> 
> ...


Nah. I don't think everyone every time even wants to have feels. Sometimes, yes, of course. But casual sex is just that in the 1970s, straight, high, drunk, whatever. There is emotion-free sex. Well, maybe you have one emotion -- glad enough you're getting laid. Let's recap the 1970s, shall we, for those of you who weren't there?



















Sorry you missed it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Honestly, I am kind of puzzled why you are Talk About Marriage to talk about the opposite.


I've been here over a decade, married, divorced and had plenty of experiences throughout my time here. I also don't think being married is a requirement to be posting here.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

What exactly are you looking for in terms of advice on this thread?

You know that pretty much any sexual relationship outside of an ONS, is going to result in one or the other partner to get in your words "the feels". You have pretty much stated that.

So, are you feeling guilty or having remorse?

What are looking for from others in this thread?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BootsAndJeans said:


> What exactly are you looking for in terms of advice on this thread?


Because someone told me cuddles is a no no 😑



> You know that pretty much any sexual relationship outside of an ONS, is going to result in one or the other partner to get in your words "the feels". You have pretty much stated that.


But not always!



> So, are you feeling guilty or having remorse?
> What are looking for from others in this thread?


I've always felt bad when breaking their hearts, also mad and angry at them. Hell even last year after I broke up with my ex I found someone who I considered a "crutch", but I never met her, I didn't want to, she was just a nice chatty flirt to exchange photos and flirt with as we both broke up with our partners during lockdown. I told her strictly JUST FRIENDS. But she didn't understand that.

Overall I just don't need that kind of fking drama in my life, but if I am to get back in the game I ain't going to be happy if I have to keep changing partners and rubbers when I can keep it to one person I can actually be fond of and enjoy fking.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

minimalME said:


> You're asking humans to not be human.


If you are wanting to have an ongoing sexual series of experiences (I’m trying to not use the word ‘relationship’) without having any emotional responses or entanglements, then you would need to find another sociopath ((again about roughly 5% of the population)

Assuming you are not actually a sociopath or autistic and assuming you actually do want to connect on a interpersonal and affectionate level with another human being, my suggestion is determine just exactly what it is about a traditional relationship/marriage you are wanting to avoid and e press that clearly as a boundary.

The key is you will need to be specific and clear on those boundaries. You can’t just say you don’t want to get married because people will jump to conclusions on the 10,000 components that make up a marriage and you will thrown the baby out with the bath water. 

Instead you say you do not want to any permanent legal or financial commitments or paperwork.

If you don’t want to go to her family’s Christmas dinners, you say you do not want to be obligated to go to any other family’s holiday events.

If you don’t want to live together, you say you want each to maintain their own homes. 

In other words it’s all about that word “communicate.”

It’s opening your mouth and moving your lips and tongue and express exactly what it is you do want to do and state what you do not want as boundaries. 

Make no mistake, it IS a relationship. It’s just an ala carte relationship and is not bundled in a bunch of assumptive guesses as to what the term “relationship “ means.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> If you are wanting to have an ongoing sexual series of experiences (I’m trying to not use the word ‘relationship’) without having any emotional responses or entanglements, then you would need to find another sociopath ((again about roughly 5% of the population)
> 
> Assuming you are not actually a sociopath or autistic and assuming you actually do want to connect on a interpersonal and affectionate level with another human being, my suggestion is determine just exactly what it is about a traditional relationship/marriage you are wanting to avoid and e press that clearly as a boundary.
> 
> ...


Sure I communicate all that and they still cause dramas so 🤷‍♂️


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> Sure I communicate all that and they still cause dramas so 🤷‍♂️


Then it becomes a matter of maintaining boundaries.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Sure I communicate all that and they still cause dramas so 🤷‍♂️


Men are way less dramatic then women, and way better into compartmentalizing. Just saying 🤷‍♀️😁


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Because someone told me cuddles is a no no 😑












Who? This? 👆



🤣 joke


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

There is no such thing as casual sex.

I'm not extrapolating right now but it's literally a fools errand to try.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> There is no such thing as casual sex.
> 
> I'm not extrapolating right now but it's literally a fools errand to try.


Watch it, he'll get angry and you will get pounced on by the swinger's brigade.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> Then it becomes a matter of maintaining boundaries.


Well yeah but then it still leads to dramas when enforcing said boundaries 😅



moon7 said:


> View attachment 94341
> 
> 
> Who? This? 👆
> ...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> There is no such thing as casual sex.
> 
> I'm not extrapolating right now but it's literally a fools errand to try.


Yeah well I ain't going to castrate myself so what to do?
I've kept my sex drive dormant and compartmentalised after I stopped dating this year. But it's coming back.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Watch it, he'll get angry and you will get pounced on by the swinger's brigade.


Fine.😎


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

moon7 said:


> View attachment 94341
> 
> 
> Who? This? 👆
> ...


I love it! LOL 😆 

But the irony there is when people interview actual prostitutes and what goes on behind closed doors, a significant portion of their business is spent cuddling.

Maybe not the street crack hoes doing blowjobs in the car, but the middle class escorts spend a percentage of their billable time cuddling and talking. That may be after the he cums, but but a percentage of the billable hours is the cuddling and such.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> I love it! LOL 😆
> 
> But the irony there is when people interview actual prostitutes and what goes on behind closed doors, a significant portion of their business is spent cuddling.
> 
> Maybe not the street crack hoes doing blowjobs in the car, but the middle class escorts spend a percentage of their billable time cuddling and talking. That may be after the he cums, but but a percentage of the billable hours is the cuddling and such.


They even have cuddle brothels now!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Don't know how you do it. Sex is a part of my bond with my wife. Sex for sex sake, I could not separate the two. I think youvare trying to outsmart mother nature. Sex and cuddles, any intimacy causes a release of chemicals that promote bonding (feels) in humans.


I don't think many people realize that a real connection is made when you are intimate with another person which is why its a bad idea to do this on a casual basis. For us like you and your wife, its an expression of love and commitment and so empty without that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Yeah well I ain't going to castrate myself so what to do?
> I've kept my sex drive dormant and compartmentalised after I stopped dating this year. But it's coming back.


Just stating facts like nuclear power comes with a radiation warning.

I didn't make the rules, I don't even enforce them but they are what they are.😉


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> I don't think many people realize that a real connection is made when you are intimate with another person which is why its a bad idea to do this on a casual basis. For us like you and your wife, its an expression of love and commitment and so empty without that.


It's not that empty with a good friend. Not as forfilling but it doesn't have to be. It's enough for me, strikes a balance I guess.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Just stating facts like nuclear power comes with a radiation warning.
> 
> I didn't make the rules, I don't even enforce them but they are what they are.😉


Then I must ensure we all go in with hazmat suits! 

But I still want cuddles 😑


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Then I must ensure we all go in with hazmat suits!
> 
> But I still want cuddles 😑


I honestly hope, and pray, you get your needs met and not necessarily your wants.

Mrs. Conan met needs I didn't even know existed before I met her.😉


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> I don't think many people realize that a real connection is made when you are intimate with another person which is why its a bad idea to do this on a casual basis. For us like you and your wife, its an expression of love and commitment and so empty without that.


There is a funny but sad story, that actually happened. We went to my 30th high school reunion at the VFW. I spent some time with my buddies, playing pool and danced a bit with my wife.

The girls were talking at the table and I guess romance/sex came up. One of the girls I had dated before I met my wife was there (she had dumped me for a military guy a couple of years older). Anyway, booze had been flowing and my wife was probably the only non-drinker amongst the girls.

This ex-girlfriend asked what kind of a man I was _don't know the exact words_ . My wife basically told her that we fit like a hand in a glove and that when I look her in the eyes when making love, she sees God at the release. I am so glad you broke up with him, he is VERY happy". She then cane over and stole me from my buddies and we slowly danced.

Man, I love that woman...


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> I honestly hope, and pray, you get your needs met and not necessarily your wants.
> 
> Mrs. Conan met needs I didn't even know existed before I met her.😉


I have my needs met, I need only myself. I simply enjoy being friends with my lovers, but friends are expendable to me no matter how fond I am of them. 
Hell I had old mates wonder how the F I can suddenly just turn cold and cut them out of my life. One persisted and then manage to find my ex to get a message to me 

Just feels like folk can be a tad black and white when I'm a tad more grey


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BootsAndJeans said:


> There is a funny but sad story, that actually happened. We went to my 30th high school reunion at the VFW. I spent some time with my buddies, playing pool and danced a bit with my wife.
> 
> The girls were talking at the table and I guess romance/sex came up. One of the girls I had dated before I met my wife was there (she had dumped me for a military guy a couple of years older). Anyway, booze had been flowing and my wife was probably the only non-drinker amongst the girls.
> 
> ...


Ergh... this is why I avoid such things.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

BootsAndJeans said:


> There is a funny but sad story, that actually happened. We went to my 30th high school reunion at the VFW. I spent some time with my buddies, playing pool and danced a bit with my wife.
> 
> The girls were talking at the table and I guess romance/sex came up. One of the girls I had dated before I met my wife was there (she had dumped me for a military guy a couple of years older). Anyway, booze had been flowing and my wife was probably the only non-drinker amongst the girls.
> 
> ...


Truth and connection seems such an awesome thing 👏👏👏


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I have my needs met, I need only myself. I simply enjoy being friends with my lovers, but friends are expendable to me no matter how fond I am of them.
> Hell I had old mates wonder how the F I can suddenly just turn cold and cut them out of my life. One persisted and then manage to find my ex to get a message to me
> 
> Just feels like folk can be a tad black and white when I'm a tad more grey


 Like I said, no nuclear power without radiation. No such thing as casual sex.

Just have to acknowledge reality and work with it. 

You know, physics and biology are a pain in the ass but no getting around them.😉


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> They even have cuddle brothels now!


Well there ya go! 

They are paid to keep it drama free.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> Well there ya go!
> 
> They are paid to keep it drama free.


Yeah F that 😅 
Not cuddling with a fking stranger! lol


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Like I said, no nuclear power without radiation. No such thing as casual sex.
> 
> Just have to acknowledge reality and work with it.
> 
> You know, physics and biology are a pain in the ass but no getting around them.😉


I'm starting to think @Corgi Mum 's answer could be the ticket though.
As long as there is something that prevents us from having a future, it could be clean power without radiation!

...


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'm starting to think @Corgi Mum 's answer could be the ticket though.
> As long as there is something that prevents us from having a future, it could be clean power without radiation!
> 
> ...


LoL! Sex will never be casual. She had to come up with some pretty damaged and sabotaging reasoning.

Just figure out your radiation suite because the radiation is there. LoL!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> LoL! Sex will never be casual. She had to come up with some pretty damaged and sabotaging reasoning.
> 
> Just figure out your radiation suite because the radiation is there. LoL!


But in this case, where there is damage and sabotage there is gold! 🤗


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> But in this case, where there is damage and sabotage there is gold! 🤗


It's uranium.🤣 Or plutonium I guess.😁


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> It's uranium.🤣 Or plutonium I guess.😁


Ah hell now I'm just hoping I can stay celibate a little longer until the engine gets running again 😣

I'm not so sure I can say I enjoyed my love life this year.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Looking back at one FWB in particular, think she set the standard. And hey she was only in the country temporarily, had no designs on moving here and vice versa hence there was no future and neither of us got invested but still enjoyed each other's company (and bodies )

I think this is the ticket  - go for travellers, not tourists though, at least staying a decent time for work/studies/etc.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> No such thing as casual sex.


Are you sure about that?

Since I have had casual sex (including as described further below) with a number of different women, within an hour or two of meeting them, with the soonest being within ten minutes of meeting.

Otherwise what do you think I should call, meeting someone at a party, quickly smiling at each other, quickly chatting, quickly finding a room or a corner to ****, then putting clothes back on afterwards and then both happily carrying on about our evening separately?

*3 Kinds of Casual Sex—Explained*
_Paul Joannides Psy.D. - Psychology Today_

*Sex with no strings attached* is as casual as casual sex gets. It often involves sex with a total stranger whom you might have only met in the last hour. Or you may have been on each other’s radar for weeks or months before opportunity knocked. It might be a one-night stand, or it may have its own jagged lifeline. The triggers can be many, but alcohol is often involved.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Personal said:


> Are you sure about that?
> 
> Since I have had casual sex (including as described further below) with a number of different women, within an hour or two of meeting them, with the the soonest being within ten minutes of meeting.
> 
> ...


Positive as you are that emotional affairs don't exist.😉


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Personal said:


> Or you may have been on each other’s radar for weeks or months before opportunity knocked.


And I said no! (work crush)

On hindsight, she's not worth the risk lol even if I had to spend months finding her likeness to scratch the itch she gave me 😣


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Positive as you are that emotional affairs don't exist.😉


There's a vast difference and gap between, wishing to or imagining having sex with someone versus actually having sex with them. Which is the difference between actually cheating on someone sexually for real, versus just imagining doing it.

Whereas casual sex is actually sharing real sex (as opposed to the make believe imaginary sex as that is peddled by the emotional crowd) in a casual manner, without the desire for a greater relational investment.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> And I said no! (work crush)
> 
> On hindsight, she's not worth the risk lol even if I had to spend months finding her likeness to scratch the itch she gave me 😣


I have had no problems hooking up with workmates for casual sex, or for more substantial relationships (being married to a former workmate). And even today, I would have no hesitation in doing so, if I was looking for other partners again.

In my experience work can be a tremendous place to pick up.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Personal said:


> I have had no problems hooking up with workmates for casual sex, or for more substantial relationships (being married to a former workmate). And even today, I would have no hesitation in doing so, if I was looking for other partners again.
> 
> In my experience work can be a tremendous place to pick up.


Aye but we were in leadership roles not to mention... nah long story short just the overall risk was too great. I don't think I can ever do it, not in my position anyway.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Then, am I human?


Of course. 😏

You're humanly trying to get your needs met without having to consider the impact that intimacy will have on the women you interact with.

You want your way - and that's it. 😂

And I totally understand. It's why I'm content alone. I don't want to deal with messiness of romantic relationships anymore. 😬


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

minimalME said:


> Of course. 😏
> 
> You're humanly trying to get your needs met without having to consider the impact that intimacy will have on the women you interact with.
> 
> ...


Can't it just be damn simple because in the end it's just another form of back scratching! 😣 lol

I'm starting to see options open now though - if we stick to the new rule (must include at least one dealbreaker each). Example, temporary overseas workers, international students especially except a lot of them do want to stay here. I'll just go for the ones that don't I guess.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> There is no such thing as casual sex.
> 
> I'm not extrapolating right now but it's literally a fools errand to try.


I'm not sure about this though.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I've had some causal sex in my early twenties before meeting my wife. I always found that the trick was to have sex with people I didn't particularly fancy or I knew I wasn't interested in a relationship with... it worked...


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I've had some causal sex in my early twenties before meeting my wife.


Are you sure, it was actually casual sex? Because...



ConanHub said:


> There is no such thing as casual sex.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Watch it, he'll get angry and you will get pounced on by the swinger's brigade.


Oh, you reminded of my question about swingers and poly being ugly 🤣🤣🤣

After that i looked at reddit for some poly sub to look at their pictures and i think my weird theory was actually right, i mean, at least on average 😯


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Are you sure, it was actually casual sex? Because...


Lol... Pretty sure...  BTW, when I say "I didn't particularly fancy", I still have to fancy them a bit... can't have sex without some attraction.


----------



## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> The appeal of casual sex has always been its lack of complications, less requirements, and avoidance of drama.
> 
> However, this goes out the window when someone catches the feels. I'm mostly immune to it, I only ever fell in love once and that was like 5 years ago, the rest I loved them but never been in love with them, but in all fairness I'm still overall very fond of my lovers.
> 
> ...


Guys who use women as se*ual objects or for a get it out of the system wham, bam thank you mam have no respect for women and the women who participate with men like you, a quick poke have no respect for themselves and no self esteem. 
It`s not much different than using prostitutes, just s*x and no intimacy.
It is called hookup culture that was described in the 1960s as free love only there is no love involved.
A sad sign of the times.


----------



## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> It works for me, I cuddled with several past lovers with no issues and they knew we had no future so it was pure fun and sex forfilling our intimate needs without complications.
> For the others who start making a fuss after a while in my mind it's like, I told you so - you know?
> 
> My last lover didn't even want to be exclusive so sex is obviously very seperated for her, but she didn't want exclusivity so fbuddy she became... until I got bored.
> ...


You say without complications yet here you are with what seems to be complications 😆


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

gameopoly5 said:


> Guys who use women as se*ual objects or for a get it out of the system wham, bam thank you mam have no respect for women and the women who participate with men like you, a quick poke have no respect for themselves and no self esteem.
> It`s not much different than using prostitutes, just s*x and no intimacy.
> It is called hookup culture that was described in the 1960s as free love only there is no love involved.
> A sad sign of the times.


Lol ok boomer 😅


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> You say without complications yet here you are with what seems to be complications 😆


Ah, but this thread is about avoiding these said complications 😎


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Don't know how you do it. Sex is a part of my bond with my wife. Sex for sex sake, I could not separate the two. I think youvare trying to outsmart mother nature. Sex and cuddles, any intimacy causes a release of chemicals that promote bonding (feels) in humans.


If one is married.

If not, wholly different.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> Ah, but this thread is about avoiding these said complications 😎


When single, I avoided the feels by embracing knowing every new woman wasn't going to be the one because I was not looking to settle down or put myself in a spot to feel I had to answer to anyone on how my schedules for work or play went moment by moment. I was respectful of course.

Dating multiple at once was normal. 
My time was my time


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If one is married.
> 
> If not, wholly different.


Have no clue. I am married and only have intimacy with my wife. I know for a fact, that I do not and cannot compartmentalize in that way. Sex for me is an expression of intimacy and feelings.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> When single, I avoided the feels by embracing knowing every new woman wasn't going to be the one because I was not looking to settle down or put myself in a spot to feel I had to answer to anyone on how my schedules for work or play went moment by moment. I was respectful of course.
> 
> Dating multiple at once was normal.
> My time was my time


Yeah that seems to be a common way to do it, would explain why fbuddy's approach to it was no exclusivity but I just don't like that kind of casual sex I suppose. It seems most "FWBs" people have are of this model, no exclusivity.

Yet short term relationship just doesn't fit with what I'm looking for either.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Have no clue. I am married and only have intimacy with my wife. I know for a fact, that I do not and cannot compartmentalize in that way. Sex for me is an expression of intimacy and feelings.


You could feel different if you were single though.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Numb26 said:


> You could feel different if you were single though.


I seriously doubt it. I had plenty of opportunities before I was married. Granted that was over 40 years ago, but I know myself much better now at 58. I also have pretty concrete ethical and moral standards.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I seriously doubt it. I had plenty of opportunities before I was married. Granted that was over 40 years ago, but I know myself much better now at 58. I also have pretty concrete ethical and moral standards.


Maybe but it would be an awfully lonely single life though.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Numb26 said:


> Maybe but it would be an awfully lonely single life though.


I am not sure we are on the same page. If something happened and my wife passed before me, I would not begin to engage in casual sex or FWB stuff. For me, sex is only part of a committed, monogamous relationship.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I seriously doubt it. I had plenty of opportunities before I was married. Granted that was over 40 years ago, but I know myself much better now at 58. I also have pretty concrete ethical and moral standards.


Explain your comment on ethical and moral standards?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Maybe but it would be an awfully lonely single life though.


That's his theory without experience talking.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Explain your comment on ethical and moral standards?


I believe in sex only within the bounds of Christian marriage.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I am not sure we are on the same page. If something happened and my wife passed before me, I would not begin to engage in casual sex or FWB stuff. For me, sex is only part of a committed, monogamous relationship.


I understood what you said. I was commenting on the fact that being single and not having any contact with another would be a very lonely life and one I don't chose to live.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I believe in sex only within the bounds of Christian marriage.


Well, I'm unholy as F 🤣


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I'm unholy as F 🤣


Guess it is a good thing I am not Christian. LOL


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Guess it is a good thing I am not Christian. LOL


It works for some but definitely not for us "sinful fornicators" 😅


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I believe in sex only within the bounds of Christian marriage.


You'd have to married to have sex is what you're saying?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> It works for some but definitely not for us "sinful fornicators" 😅


I was a Christian when single. Have been all my life, really. Raised in church.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You'd have to married to have sex is what you're saying?


I am pretty sure that is exactly what I stated.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You'd have to married to have sex is what you're saying?


Yes or no answer here please.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Yes or no answer here please.


Yes. That is my personal ethical and moral stance.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Are we about to see a duel of bible verses thrown left and right? 😅


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

I am not interested in Bible verse debating. Being a thoughtful Christian is not about quoting verses. It's about a comprehensive way to live life. Like anything, the Bible can be quoted to support or be against a number of things. The key that too many people, both non-believers and Christians do, is not consider the contextuality.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I'm going to keep fornicating till I die, I would prefer to be celibate but while I'm exposed to people and opportunities it's not going to work that way. 

Until the time I can isolate myself completely from the world on a catamaran and live off the grid without financial and parental responsibilities, I will still have desires to deal with and so do women.

I made this thread because as mentioned before despite my apparent immorality I consider the impact that I have when interacting with the women in my life. Not everyone is so lucky to find love and marriage and their happily ever after. The rest of us make do with what we have.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

We all have to sleep in the bed we make. Good luck.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I'm unholy as F 🤣


Actually on second thoughts maybe you have the right idea, considering the high divorce rates and couples living together in unhappy marriages, the long and suffering.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BootsAndJeans said:


> We all have to sleep in the bed we make. Good luck.


I don't usually sleep in my bed. 😉


----------



## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

I am willing to bet you likely consume a lot of porn. Generally, unless you are paying for it and even when you do you can still develop bonds and connections. It is human nature to want to bond. Fight it as much as you want humans want to be in intimate relationships. Holy unholy, whatever, "catching feels" is normal and not a bad thing. I am willing to bet you have had some serious trauma in your life that has made attachment to people hard. I'd recommend you find a good therapist that can help you identify what you really want vs what you think you want.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Shots fired!!!!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> I don't usually sleep in my bed. 😉






Numb26 said:


> Shots fired!!!!!


In the air 😅


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> So I'm always going to have drama if I continue my approach?
> I don't know if I can just stick to ONSs and fbuddies, it's just not enough for me.
> 
> Not to mention I enjoy bareback sex and that requires FWB-minimum with established trust.


I think if you're looking for trust and some kind of friendly connection, you're always risking some kind of drama. But if you're transparent then you shouldn't feel bad about it when the drama ensues. 

One option for you might be to find a women in an open marriage who has a long history with ENM. These types are much better with keeping it strictly casual and drama free. Though that type or situation might be a little to far outside the box.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

gameopoly5 said:


> Actually on second thoughts maybe you have the right idea, considering the high divorce rates and couples living together in unhappy marriages, the long and suffering.


It's not about that for me personally, the fact of the matter is that I learnt that the heart and ability to love is like a limb, you can lose it and after it heals it will still be a stump. You can't magically make it whole again.

This stump may be enough for some but it is not enough for the standard I hold myself to when it comes to having and maintaining a love relationship. Already even in my last relationship there was a part of me I couldn't give her no matter how much I loved her.

That part of me was ex-wife's over a decade ago, some people in your life just take a part of you and that part of you that was given is simply for life. Last ex took a larger share of me due to my vulnerability with her. I've reclaimed all I can.

Now I can waste the time of my dates like I did this year, going for love relationships when deep down I want only one thing and one thing alone. Ok fine two things! Sex and cuddles lol

Or I can stick to women who are open to casual relationships. What is more moral/logical aside from shutting myself out from the world which as I already mentioned I'm not able to do right now?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think if you're looking for trust and some kind of friendly connection, you're always risking some kind of drama. But if you're transparent then you shouldn't feel bad about it when the drama ensues.
> 
> One option for you might be to find a women in an open marriage who has a long history with ENM. These types are much better with keeping it strictly casual and drama free. Though that type or situation might be a little to far outside the box.


It was really annoying, I ended up having a relationship with a FWB because I didn't want us to have the drama and felt she deserved a chance. Bad mistake, no dramas in the end but I broke her heart.

I have considered ENM actually and there were a few profiles I found on the apps who were looking for ENM. The desire for exclusivity for me is due mainly to STD risk and preference for bareback sex however if within a small group of trusted friends I may even enjoy it.

But I don't know


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> It's not about that for me personally, the fact of the matter is that I learnt that the heart and ability to love is like a limb, you can lose it and after it heals it will still be a stump. You can't magically make it whole again.


I hope you don't take this comment as disrespect. I'm certain you believe everything you are saying. I am also just as certain that you will love again. I don't know you personally, but I have known lots of people that have sworn off love. More often than not it finds you again.


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I almost entered into something casual recently but never tried to convince myself it wouldn't result in feelings and not because I'm female but more so because you just can't know that in advance.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ReformedHubby said:


> I hope you don't take this comment as disrespect. I'm certain you believe everything you are saying. I am also just as certain that you will love again. I don't know you personally, but I have known lots of people that have sworn off love. More often than not it finds you again.





Not said:


> I almost entered into something casual recently but never tried to convince myself it wouldn't result in feelings and not because I'm female but more so because you just can't know that in advance.


I'm concluding based on previous patterns and the issues I already had with my ex when it comes to giving her all of me. I reached in and there was already not much left with a lot of things. Now I reach in and there's nothing there.

If I find love again I will not be satisfied with the stump I may not even be able to give her, and what's likely going to happen is yet another broken relationship. It's not worth it, I just don't have anything left to give in this. All I have is that I'm still young, attractive and can give of myself physically.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@RandomDude have you looked into the Sugar Bowl at all? (Aka sugar babies)

Yes it’s inarguably lo-carb prostitution to a degree, but yet not actually illegal. 

It is in a way an ongoing interpersonal relationship vs a ONS, but it is a negotiated relationship where all parameters and expectations and boundaries are laid out from the git-go. 

It’s not a cash arrangement but rather appreciation for not causing drama or having unwanted expectations is expressed through “gifts” such as jewelry or designer clothes or gift cards to such places and sometimes in the form of “financial assistance” in providing assistance with expenses such as assistance with rent or car payments or tuition assistance for nursing school and such.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> @RandomDude have you looked into the Sugar Bowl at all? (Aka sugar babies)
> 
> Yes it’s inarguably lo-carb prostitution to a degree, but yet not actually illegal.
> 
> ...


Already I was suspicious of fbuddy being a sugar baby as she was not financially independent and in debt. My fears turned out to be unfounded as she never directly asked me for any money however who knows, I didn't know her that long.

No, I'm not interested in transactional relationships or romances. If she's sucking me off I want to know it's because she finds me hot not because she wants my sugar. Maybe one of the reasons why I've never been an sexless situation because I ensure all my partners are after me for me.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> If she's sucking me off I want to know it's because she finds me hot not because she wants my sugar. Maybe one of the reasons why I've never been an sexless situation because I ensure all my partners are after me for me.


And that can still occur. 

Most SBs are not crack/meth addicted street walkers doing anything and anyone for their next fix or having to bring money to a pimp to keep from getting beat. 

Most SBs have full sexual agency and autonomy and do what they want sexually with who they choose. 

If a SB does not have any sexual attraction or interest, she has full agency to say no thank you and move on. 

It’s a negotiated relationship and not a compulsory or exploited one. 

You can have consensual dates and hook ups and cuddles with someone who consensually chooses to do so of her own volition. 

Your “appreciation” is given for not having any additional strings attached and for not having other expectations.

Julia Robert’s character said it best in the movie Pretty Woman when she said - “you don’t pay hookers for sex, you pay them to leave.”

She was talking about prostitutes, but that concept probably applies to SBs even more. 

You’re not paying for sex. Your paying to negotiate your own terms and to be able to hold them to it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> And that can still occur.
> 
> Most SBs are not crack/meth addicted street walkers doing anything and anyone for their next fix or having to bring money to a pimp to keep from getting beat.
> 
> ...


Well yeah, so does your regular hooker. Over here in Australia prostitution is legal and regulated. Nah, not my thing. Maybe if I'm out of options but doesn't seem like it at the moment. Maybe once I'm 50+ !


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> I want to know it's because she finds me hot not because she wants my sugar. Maybe one of the reasons why I've never been an sexless situation because I ensure all my partners are after me for me.



I want to point something else out and bring your attention to the contradiction in your agenda. 

You say you want people to have sincere and organic attraction and desire for you, but yet you don’t want them to get the feels and don’t want any more expectations or drama etc. 

Those two goals are mutually exclusive of each other. 

If someone has attraction and desire, then they have feels coming into it from the git-go and if there is ongoing sexual contact and cuddles etc, then there is going to be even more feels and ultimately more wants and more expectations and eventually drama and hurt feelings etc on both sides. 

As others have noted, your fantasies of some kind of sincere sexual and cuddle relationship with any other emotional entanglements occurring is unrealistic. 

If you want sincere attraction and desire, but no other entanglements, you have few options - 

- one is find a needle in a haystack in a single woman with that same agenda and then take your chances and hope for the best.

- see if you can find a married woman in a sexless marriage that just wants boy toy whilst she remains married and gets those other needs met by her BH (and hope he doesn’t find out and then have real drama)

- have some kind of transactional, negotiated relationship with a SB or escort or whatever.

- turn gay and get with dudes because that’s what gay dudes do.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> I want to point something else out and bring your attention to the contradiction in your agenda.
> 
> You say you want people to have sincere and organic attraction and desire for you, but yet you don’t want them to get the feels and don’t want any more expectations or drama etc.
> 
> ...


Well you say it's unrealistic and then you give me the below options 😅



> If you want sincere attraction and desire, but no other entanglements, you have few options -
> 
> - one is find a needle in a haystack in a single woman with that same agenda and then take your chances and hope for the best.
> 
> - see if you can find a married woman in a sexless marriage that just wants boy toy whilst she remains married and gets those other needs met by her BH (and hope he doesn’t find out and then have real drama)


Yes, these are the options currently on the table. The former may work as long as there's a mutual dealbreaker, one that doesn't affect attraction, example - temporary workers and international students. Not exactly needles in haystacks I found more FWBs than girlfriend material after all.

The latter I was involved in when I was younger, not interested in it anymore after my time here on TAM as well as finally learning how it feels to be in love with someone so not going to be the other guy, unless he wants to swing then sure ok, but ENM only.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Truly, I think you should see a psychiatrist or at least a certified counselor. Your pain shines through every sentence you write. Whatever your ex did, it's obvious it crushed some part of you.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Save money on the therapist and just have sex. You'll be much happier!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Truly, I think you should see a psychiatrist or at least a certified counselor. Your pain shines through every sentence you write. Whatever your ex did, it's obvious it crushed some part of you.


Well yeah but not compared to a lot of people, I'm not bitter at all and I don't even blame my ex, she was 14 years younger than me it's my fault I built my house on the edge of the cliff. Whatever she did she has an excuse because of her age and my cradle robbing 😆. 

And it's not just her either, nor is it about what they did. It's about what I gave.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Save money on the therapist and just have sex. You'll be much happier!


Hahahahaha


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

@RandomDude , at thus juncture I am just going to bow out of this conversation. Good luck.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BootsAndJeans said:


> @RandomDude , at thus juncture I am just going to bow out of this conversation. Good luck.


Translation: RD you are fking messed up 🤣

And I am, I've always been, I just don't give a crap because I always adapt and survive.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> Well you say it's unrealistic and then you give me the below options 😅



It’s unrealistic for a normal, healthy single person to hook up with someone they are attracted to over a period of time and not get feels and just be a Fbuddy forever. 

The other categories would either be cool with it or at least understand the playing field going into it.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> I'm starting to think @Corgi Mum 's answer could be the ticket though.
> As long as there is something that prevents us from having a future, it could be clean power without radiation!
> 
> ...


Hey, it worked out great for me. Look for the dealbreaker chicks. Just make sure it's an immutable line. Like I was not giving up my dogs for any guy. Or moving 400 miles. Or whatever line I drew.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Corgi Mum said:


> Hey, it worked out great for me. Look for the dealbreaker chicks. Just make sure it's an immutable line. Like I was not giving up my dogs for any guy. Or moving 400 miles. Or whatever line I drew.


This! Hardcore, hardline dealbreaker girls. Is she a hot drug addict? Maybe she has 3 kids and you don't wanna be a baby daddy. Whatever it takes. This is why so many men hit on married women, we hope they will do the deed and keep it secret.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Corgi Mum said:


> Hey, it worked out great for me. Look for the dealbreaker chicks. Just make sure it's an immutable line. Like I was not giving up my dogs for any guy. Or moving 400 miles. Or whatever line I drew.





Enigma32 said:


> This! Hardcore, hardline dealbreaker girls. Is she a hot drug addict? Maybe she has 3 kids and you don't wanna be a baby daddy. Whatever it takes. This is why so many men hit on married women, we hope they will do the deed and keep it secret.


It's clearer now, I can see it.

The ironic thing is that I've been avoiding these women when I was dating earlier this year. Visiting the city for short time, looking for fun, ENM, women who travel back and forth. Etc.

The air hostess I dated earlier this year for example would have been fun actually but she's after relationship and not the touchy sort. I normally wouldn't even consider her but I swiped right to her while her profile location was still in my city before she took off the next day. However, others could be more compatible.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> It's clearer now, I can see it.
> 
> The ironic thing is that I've been avoiding these women when I was dating earlier this year. Visiting the city for short time, looking for fun, ENM, women who travel back and forth. Etc.
> 
> The air hostess I dated earlier this year for example would have been fun actually but she's after relationship and not the touchy sort. I normally wouldn't even consider her but I swiped right to her while her profile location was still in my city before she took off the next day. However, others could be more compatible.


Man, almost every woman out there says she is looking for a relationship, so if you are weeding those ladies out while looking for a FWB, you are doing it wrong. While they say they're looking for a relationship, they will almost always take a FWB with a guy they like vs a relationship with a guy they don't like.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> Man, almost every woman out there says she is looking for a relationship, so if you are weeding those ladies out while looking for a FWB, you are doing it wrong. While they say they're looking for a relationship, they will almost always take a FWB with a guy they like vs a relationship with a guy they don't like.


This has been my experience too


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> Man, almost every woman out there says she is looking for a relationship, so if you are weeding those ladies out while looking for a FWB, you are doing it wrong. *While they say they're looking for a relationship, they will almost always take a FWB with a guy they like vs a relationship with a guy they don't like.*


Sure but the risk factor of her getting attached is also higher 🤷‍♂️
Yet I guess the risk can be mitigated through other means... 

Well, now I know what I'm after. Back to swiping I guess, bah screw it, later, when I'm actually horny again.


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