# Think my ex had Borderline Personality Disorder



## talkitout (Feb 21, 2012)

I've probably been thinking of this way too much, in fact I know I have. But when something so significant happens so suddenly you are left searching for the hows and whys. I've thought for a long time she had issues within her that made our relationship harder than it needed to be. I contributed no doubt to the difficulty at times, but the way she acted sometimes was beyond comprehension. 

In reading about Borderline Personality Disorder I saw that she fit all the diagnostic criteria almost perfectly. It was eery reading and seeing the description describe my ex almost exactly. A predisposing factor is childhood physical or sexual abuse, and yes my ex was sexually molested as a child.

I don't know if she'll ever be truly diagnosed because I doubt her pride would ever allow her to see a psychiatrist, but I lived with her for 6 years and I'm convinced she has a disorder and quite possibly BPD. It doesn't change the ultimate outcome of our relationship, but it does help me understand some of her odd ways of dealing with conflict and interpersonal relationships. Or maybe I'm just rationalizing and she just didn't like me. But I feel like this helps me understand why living with her was so difficult, and when I thought things were fine she thought they were so terribly wrong. 

Do any of you have any experiences living with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder?


----------



## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

Do you have examples of the times that you thought everything was fine and she was very deeply upset? It's interesting to me that you say that you understand her behavior, but your understanding seems a little dismissive. I don't mean to be offensive and I haven't read your story, but many people want to blame a personality disorder when something seriously wrong happens and it keeps both sides from figuring out where the real problems were, which leaves people vulnerable to the same kind of pain in the future. So...can you give an example of something like that that would lead you to believe she has BPD rather than that there was another explanation? Just curious...


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

talkitout said:


> Do any of you have any experiences living with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder?


Yes, TalkItOut, I lived with my BPDer exW for 15 years, during which time I took her to weekly visits with six different psychologists. As with your Ex, she had been sexually abused during childhood. From what I've read, it is typical for BPDers to walk away after about 12-15 years because, as the years go by, they become increasingly resentful of your inability to make them happy -- an impossible task. 

If you would like to read about my experiences with my BPDer exW -- and those of Maybe with his unstable W -- please read my post in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be happy to discuss it with you and point you to excellent online resources about BPD traits. Take care, TalkItOut.


----------



## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Yes, TalkItOut, I lived with my BPDer exW for 15 years, during which time I took her to weekly visits with six different psychologists. As with your Ex, she had been sexually abused during childhood. From what I've read, it is typical for BPDers to walk away after about 12-15 years because, as the years go by, they become increasingly resentful of your inability to make them happy -- an impossible task.
> 
> If you would like to read about my experiences with my BPDer exW -- and those of Maybe with his unstable W -- please read my post in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be happy to discuss it with you and point you to excellent online resources about BPD traits. Take care, TalkItOut.


Your post was amazing, so much information and examples. I have a question....

How does a person tell the difference between someone who is emotionally/verbally abusive, and someone who has BPD traits. I used to think I was crazy because my H used to spin things around to make it my fault, or change what I had said.

For instance....after having an arguement with my son's daycare teacher, and intimidating her, he then said "I don't know why she doesn't like me, she's always complained about you". When asking her myself if she had any issues with me in a very non-threatening and diplomatic manner (knowing he was lying, but no really sure...that crazy feeling), she responded in shock and said she had never said such a thing, and began to cry, and couldn't understand why he would lie.

Another example...We used to have Summer parties in our back yard every year. Last Summer after we had one of our arguements, he said to me "your friends even think you are controling, and have asked me how I put up with it". Of course my friends were floored by this, and would never say such a thing.

So is this emotional abuse or BPD? and if it's BPD, what happens with these people? treatment???


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

WorkingTogether, thanks for the kind words. I am glad to hear you found the BPD information helpful.


working_together said:


> How does a person tell the difference between someone who is emotionally/verbally abusive, and someone who has BPD traits?


Whereas verbal abuse is simply one behavioral trait, BPD is a collection of traits (i.e., symptoms) that tend to be seen occurring together. Likewise, the other nine personality disorders (PDs) are merely groups of dysfunctional symptoms that are often seen occurring together. The psychiatric community created these groupings because they learned, decades ago, you can increase your understanding of human behavior a hundred-fold by examining a collection of behavioral traits together -- instead of looking at them individually in isolation.

Strong verbal abuse, for example, is a trait that is primarily associated with BPD, Narcissistic PD, Antisocial PD, PTSD, a hormone change, adult ADHD, drug use, and a recent brain injury. Verbal abuse therefore can be indicative of a wide range of problems -- some of which are easily treated and others of which would take many years of intensive, weekly therapy. 

Hence, to understand what abuse means to your marriage, it is important to see what other traits and circumstances are occurring. For example, did the person recently start using drugs? Did he recently get a blow to the head in a traffic accident? Did she just give birth to a child? Does he exhibit most of the traits of any PD at a strong level? Depending on the answers to questions like those, you may find that the marriage is or is not salvageable. This is why I don't find it useful when someone writes "She is an abuser, pure and simple -- end of story." 

I nonetheless would agree that, regardless of the cause, you should hold the abuser fully accountable for his own behavior. This means you should establish strong personal boundaries that are enforced by walking out if he or she violates them.


> I used to think I was crazy because my H used to spin things around to make it my fault, or change what I had said.


As I explained in the post you read, that "crazy making" behavior is called "gaslighting." Significantly, of the ten PDs, BPD is the only one that is notorious for making the nonBPD _partner_ feel like she may be losing her mind.


> So is this emotional abuse or BPD? and if it's BPD, what happens with these people? treatment???


The two examples you gave sound like emotional abuse. As I explained above, most of the nine BPD traits would have to be present -- and persistent for many years -- for the behavior to be described as being a pattern of strong BPD traits.

As to treatment, yes, there are excellent treatment programs available in every developed country. Sadly, however, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference. Instead, they usually choose to protect their fragile egos from seeing too much of reality by hiding behind the false self image of always being "the victim."


----------



## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

working_together said:


> Your post was amazing, so much information and examples. I have a question....
> 
> How does a person tell the difference between someone who is emotionally/verbally abusive, and someone who has BPD traits. I used to think I was crazy because my H used to spin things around to make it my fault, or change what I had said.
> 
> ...


That sounds to me like mental illness. In those instances, it sounds like his perception isn't matching that of those around him. That doesn't sound abusive....that is, he's not berating you or putting you down, but it does sound troubling. It doesn't sound intentional, which is why I don't see it as abusive. But then, I'm having a hard time coming to terms with the word "abuse" in my own relationship so....you're not alone in feeling lost in the grey zone!


----------



## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Yeah, I am divorcing one of these currently. 

The best part of a BPD'er is the unwillingness to EVER forgive you. 

I have been blamed for the following

- Her stretch marks (Should of fed her better when pregnant)

- Her feeling isolated (She isolated herself from everyone but me and when I did not measure up the resentment started)

- IVF (Both have issues, she never had a period)

- Her lack of personal growth
(Disowned all her friends, has no close friends, but one that lives 2 hours away. I was responsible for her growing as a person and all of her happiness. I could not do it and I tried so very hard.)

- Her lack of sleep 
(Let me hit on this here. When she was pregnant, she couldn't sleep. Kicked me out of the bed. I slept in the other room. Then weeks later she cried and said I never slept with her anymore and didn't cuddle her and the baby. She said she didn't want me to cuddle her because she got to hot before then. Now, I neglected her the entire pregnancy because of this. She re-wrote the past to make me ALL black as usual.)

I have been hit, called everything under the sun, holes kicked in the wall. You name it.

I would have stayed with her forever too. Now she is leaving for another guy that she dated in the past. Is already talking about him being here a long long time. He will not measure up after a while and she will be back to square one.


The problem is, I know what I am dealing with. I know her childhood caused this and I know how a BDP'er makes you feel completely insane. I am nothing more than a father figure to her. When it storms she cries. When she is hungry and doesn't get food, she cries. She reverts back to a child INSTANTLY and it has scared the hell out of me for years.

The problem with these type's of people is that you never know how they are until its to late. They are soooo good at hiding it at first and when it comes out you are usually already married.

They mirror you at the beginning and trick you into thinking that they are your soul mate.

Now, I am so damn messed up from this, that I do not know how to even tell in the future if I am dating one again. I think this is normal behavior and after being blamed for everything for so long you start to think it is all your fault. I am going to need counseling eventually, I know it.


One last thing. The lack of empathy. They project there feelings onto you. You are not allowed to be upset about a divorce because they are not upset. If you get upset, they will explode and break things or you, because they do not want to feel the pain you are feeling. The anger is so intense sometimes.

Me, I am laid back and a caregiver. Luckily, her resentment built up so fast for me that I am getting out now. I think the IVF and the fertility issues culminated the entire process.

I am rambling, but the confusion from all of this is gut wrenching.


----------



## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I think my ex was more of a narcisstic, I read more about it, they are similar though. 

The thing that makes me ill sometimes is that I know my ex is going to do this to his g/f and I can't do anything about it, she'll never know what hits her.

or

Maybe he'll change completely...who knows


----------



## Agast84 (Dec 26, 2011)

Mine had a PD. Diagnosed. Not fun to deal with. Highs-lows-really lows. However, she didn't fit all of the criteria. It was strange. I am sorry to anyone that has a partner with a PD not under treatment.
I know at times I may have made it worse, but I knew what the problem was.


----------



## SilverPanther (Feb 2, 2012)

I'm pretty sure my ex had BPD. What's weird is how he projects everything he feels onto me so much that I had a hard time parsing out what I felt versus what he felt, to where I became more and more BPDish myself. I do struggle with being high strung and emotional, normally, but in every other aspect of my life it's under control, but with him, and his constant gaslighting I guess it is called, and verbal abuse and the delusional world he lived in where he was the hapless victim and I the screaming hag, I just sort of lost control of myself. It was scary and shameful, and now looking back I can see that I was in a tremendous amount of pain and conflict and wouldn't allow myself to face it. 

It seemed easier to believe his constant berating and blaming and that somehow I was a monster and the crazy one. But the facts don't back that up, which I have been forced to face, and in facing it, finally, and confronting him, I lost him. In a way it's good riddance, but it's also the end of everything in my life, pretty much.


----------



## Corima (Jan 30, 2012)

sounds very much like my wife. Even now, after 4 months seperated. My sons and I are enjoying the lack of drama. Every time she calls, or comes around for something, it starts back up again. I had never noticed it before our seperation, because I had slowly become used to it. I never noticed the slow erosion of my self esteem and pride. I had gotten acustomed to everything being my fault. It was a 21 year slide to full blown codependancy. My eyes(ears) are wide open now. My self esteem is slowly coming back, and my sons are now doing very well in school. I know as soon as i file, the worst is yet to come. But, I am enjoying my regaining sence of confidence in my self, and i see it in my children


----------



## Ivan (Apr 16, 2012)

WOW this really helps here is my story:

Here is my story I married the most wonderful beautiful woman I could ever dream of getting we fell crazy for each other it was to good to be true, as they say. we were just in relationship bliss she was the one who popped the question and got married after 2 months of dating. I felt so alive and thought I had found the one. about 2 weeks into the marriage we had an argument about some trivial thing which escalated into her blurring out foul language calling me several things and engaging me right in my face like a tough guy street brawler would. I reacted shocked and being a short fuse myself i also became irritaded and lashed out at her verbally however to my suprise she reacted with a right hook to my jaw. i had never expierenced something like this in any relationship. After that she made it look like it was all my fault and I had pushed her to her limits. being a sucker for forgive me´s I did ask for an apology and took the blame in order to move forward.This was my first glance of what was to come in our 2 year marriage. i studied Psych. and I knew something was wrong with her many a time I thought could it be depression, bipolar or was it really me? I begged for her to go and get help she would always reply: I dont need help I just need you to be more understanding and give me my space!

I put myself in positions were i was manipulated into taking faults, I went to jail two times due to her violent outbursts that were twisted around to make it seem that i had been at fault.(I had never experienced being arrested or do i have any type of record) I was controled to the point that I had to break contact with really good friends, even visitng my mom was wrong because as she stated i had no buisness going there during the week when I had a home to come to and I must have some unresolved mommy issue.

I experienced a fit were she changed her mood about 5 or 6 times in a space of less than an hour over going to a neighbors wedding. I took the blame for many things just to go forward with our life and started to avoid certain topics, avoid bringing up previous arguments, which was very easy for her, my opinions and my advice became obsolete and idiotic and she was always right. I was physically abused by my wife many a time kicks, punches things thrown at me the last thing she did was she slammed my car keys in my face and produced a big gash, a lot of blood gushed out to her reply: that´s what you get when you piss me off! sorry! and left the scene and locked herself in our room.

I was always uneasy and was scared of mentioning something that would set her off and I had this gut feeling that she was seing someone else however when i brought it up she would say it was probably me who was cheating and I was projecting my own guilt. there were times when I would call her from work and she would not answer, text and nothing she would call me back after many hours saying why the hell are you checking up on me? or we just talked in the morning? however when i did not txt or call in a day she would also become very upset as well.

I became very distrustful because I have had other relationships where you get the:I just wanted to hear you, or I couldn´t wait to talk to you or the txt saying how´s your day going? After a while I would leave the house after an argument just to avoid the chaos and when i came back all hell would break loose because I had left and had to explain where I had been (almost always with a friend or family) and was accused to have been cheating on her with my female friends that she hated without actually knowing them because she despised the idea of me having female friends because as she said i was married and she didn´t approve of me seeing other women even if they were only friends. 

One of her female friends (one of two that I actually ever met) who was our witness at our wedding became very close to me and often would give me little bits of info here and there about my wife called me on the phone to say hi and see how i was doing (I had made her aware of what was going on with my wife) The next day my wife was just frantic and going crazy saying how dare you? what the hell is going on? she had gone through my phone and saw that she had dialed, let me tell you it took about 2 weeks for the dust to settle on that one and she cut off all contact with her friend. when I wanted to talk about it she said it had been my fault because I should have never gotten close to any of her friends(What friends? never met anyone else) Just recently she accused me of cheating and said well go ahead and
f.... whoever you want just like you f....... my friend. wow!

another hard one to deal with was we had this argument and her sister was coming over the argument escalated and she was screamming and pushing me, when i said you know what im outa here her sister was sitting there with her jaw to the floor she said i cant be in the midle of this and my wife chased after saying: Now you see how this Idiot is ruining my life? I immediately jumped in sis in laws, car my wife was paralyzed with anger from my reaction and screamed: Get out of the car and leave my family alone! to which my sister in law reacted: Please the neighbors are gonna call the police! to this day the face that my wife produced that second was... the only thing I can describe is possessed and at the top of her lung screamed at her sister GO F.... 
YOURSELF TOO! and stormed into the house her sister was shatered and said I have to go i said to her please tell me im not crazy and she said you have been always right, let me go and come to my house in about 20 I dashed in the house and my wife was crying and tried to pick up the fight, she said see what you made me do? I ignored her and left quik. I went to my sis in laws house to find her devastated.
to this day mi wife and her sister do not speak to each other
my wife tried calling her a couple of times with no success
however her sister tried talking to her after a month my wife did not answer stating: Oh now she wants to talk well f..... her
This is just very very sad.

My parents started noticing my stress and would often ask me are you okay? you seem unhappy I have hidden all of these things from them because they are very old and i don´t want to cause them any health problems.I´ts been very painful for me to engage relatives when they ask me what happened? you seem like you got along so good or the give her time things will work out. I left my very comfortable house with brand new everything into a small apartment with only my clothes and some things I was able to take.

The saddest thing is she has a 6 year old daughter from a previous relationship and she has been witness to many arguments because my wife used her as a shield. I found out through her family members recently that the father is a really decent guy and lived the same situation before he called it quits, when my wife spoke of him as being the most unfaithful, cheating and abusive person ever, should I reach out to him to cope? dunno.

before I met her I was very confident, felt good about myself, was quite the charmer worked out constantly and I have always been a hard worker and pretty good at what I do I was just plain happy. today after 2 months of being separated (due to her not being able to put up with me being so aprehensive and so uncaring and loving as she stated) I feel like these two years have been a true waste of time, energy and emotionally draining. My wife has not been formaly diagnosed since she hates the idea of getting therapy she believes people who need therapy are weak minded however I have been going to therapy with one of my professors from school and after much soul searching and going through the specifics, her family background, reactions, symptoms and recordings i have done of her when we had recent arguments over the dreaded divorce my therapist has indicated it is more than likely she has BPD. the proof is so overwhelming and personaly it just makes sense!

A month ago I asked her to go through the divorce I had set the date and time and she didn´t show up I called and had no answer it wasn´t until the next day her excuse was she had an issue at her daughter´s school however later said she still cared for me and wanted not to work things out but to allow her time to reconcile her feelings on the issue. I have researched so much on improving the relationship and steps on getting resolve so we went out on dates and I would always end up with no resolution and just a bad feeling all around. everytime I would bring up our situation she would say: please! we have been through this, I will not go around in circles, I have told you how I feel and what needs to be said has been said! it´s just damn painful. 
I even wrote her a sincere apology letter a few days ago and gave her a beautiful bouquet of roses to see if I could reach out to her, this was Friday, she seemed grateful and understanding and Saturday when we went out she displayed a complete apathy toward what had ocurred the previous day I learned her grandmother was ill so on sunday decided to pay her a visit. To my shock and utter disappointment my wife had given her grandmother the bouquet i had just given her on Friday. this is just too much for me to bear, to me this just doesn´t seem rational behaviour it is very hurtful and painful and if this BPD I feel very sorry for my wife, I truly love her however we do not have children or property that can tie us down, her family members are unaware of this disorder but have expressed all the simptoms of abuse from her and they think that she is just childish and inmature, after this weekend I confronted her and after several hang ups and verbal abuse I told her that i would pay for the divorce and get this done she said yes and that she agrees, I am just so tired and drained! I love her dearly however after 2 years of feeling at fault of being lied too, feeling like a fool I don´t believe I have the inclination to put myself through this any longer (am i being a jerk?) and as much time, effort and emotion I invested in the relationship the uncertainty of her taking a first step towards recovery based on her condition is just too much… I understand this is a disorder however I feel like I am not the one who will help her.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Ivan, welcome to the TAM forum. I'm glad to hear you found the BPD information helpful.


> ...the uncertainty of her taking a first step towards recovery


Calling it an "uncertainty" is a great understatement. Although excellent treatment programs are available, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength to be willing to seek therapy and stay with it. Therapist Shari Schreiber says you have a greater chance flying to the moon strapped to a banana than ever seeing a BPDer stay in therapy long enough to make a difference. "Long enough" usually means several years of weekly therapy.

If your W is unwilling to seek therapy on her own volition, you are taking a great risk to insist on her doing it as a condition of your remaining in the marriage. That's what I did, to my great regret. My exW agreed to the condition. The result is that I spent over $200,000 taking her to weekly visits with six different psychologists for 15 years -- all to no avail. If a BPDer doesn't want to work on her issues -- and very few do -- she will simply play mind games with the therapists.

What typically happens, if you make the mistake of following my path and staying with her, is that a BPDer will walk out on YOU after 12 to 15 years. As each year goes by, a BPDer grows increasingly resentful that you are failing to make her happy or fix her. She also will become more fearful of abandonment as she watches her body age. The likely result, then, is that you will end up searching for a new wife when you are in your 40's or 50's. IMO, it is better to do that now.


> I feel like I am not the one who will help her.


Again, that is a gross understatement. You not only are "not helping her" but likely are HARMING her by staying. I say this because the only way a BPDer will tolerate your staying is for you to continue walking on eggshells, i.e., being the doormat you've been for the past two years. This enabling behavior harms her because, by sheltering her from the logical consequences of her childish behavior, you are destroying her only opportunity to confront her issues and learn how to manage them.

If your W is a BPDer, she has the emotional development of a four year old. Hence, like any young child, she will not grow up if there is an adult around who will protect her from her own bad decisions. Once you stop being her "soothing object," for example, she will have a powerful incentive to learn how to do self soothing -- a skill the rest of us learned in childhood.


> I went to jail two times due to her violent outbursts that were twisted around to make it seem that i had been at fault.


Welcome to the crowd. I would not be surprised if at least a third of the men arrested for wife-beating are the victims of vindictive BPDers. At the end of my 15 years with my exW, she was in a terrible rage and chased me room to room -- at which point I retreated behind an unlocked bedroom door. When she started to destroy that door, I reflexively reached out and shoved her away from the door -- whereupon she tripped and fell to the floor.

She called the police and had me thrown into jail. Because it occurred early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail 3 days before I could go before a judge and be arraigned. That was plenty of time for my exW to obtain a restraining order barring me from my own home for the 18 months it takes to process a divorce in this State.


> Am i being a jerk?


No, your decision to divorce her is evidence that you've stopped being a doormat and have started building your personal boundaries to a healthy level. I have several suggestions for anyone divorcing a BPDer.

The first is to read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist._ It was released only 8 months ago by the same author who wrote the #1 best selling BPD book, _Stop Walking on Eggshells._

My second suggestion is that, in addition to participating here on the TAM forum, you start participating (or at least lurking) at the "Leaving" message board at BPDfamily.com. It is the most active BPD forum I've found and is growing at the rate of 20 new members a day. It is targeted solely to the partners and family members of BPDers, not to the BPDers themselves. Consequently, the hundreds of folks in that message board are facing the same problems as you and can give you many useful tips. 

Third, I suggest you take advantage of the excellent resources in the "Articles" section there. My favorite is Article 9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York. Finally, if you have not had time to follow the link I provided above, I suggest you read my post in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. Take care, Ivan.


----------



## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

BPD will most likely be replaced in the new diagnostic manual with PTSD. In fact a lot of "disorders" will be replaced by PTSD. Neuro science has disproven the notion of the chemical imbalance and is proving the repeated trauma and stress, especially early childhood trauma has lasting and serious affects well into adulthood. 

If you love your husband, don't give up on him, get him to a good therapist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm sorry, I read that wrong. If you love your spouse, please get a good therapist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Twofaces said:


> BPD will most likely be replaced in the new diagnostic manual with PTSD.


TwoFaces, you apparently mistook "BPD" to refer to Bipolar Disorder instead of Borderline Personality Disorder. In any event, you are mistaken. Both of those disorders are being retained in DSM5, which is scheduled to be released in May 2013. The current draft is updated daily at Bipolar and Related Disorders | APA DSM-5.


----------



## Ivan (Apr 16, 2012)

I greatly appreciate the support Uptown, When I was kicked out (when I actually left for my sanity´s sake) I went through emotional and mental turmoil however i have always belived in the power of prayer and the power of therapy, after my therapist suggested my wife had BPD and said I don´t want you to take my word for it, research it, read the stories, read these books and see for yourself, if all of this makes sense. fortunately it did. Yesterday was a tough day because the waterfall of hateful, angry txt started again, one in particular stating....and thats why i had to abort your child because you are not a man...I was just shocked and could not believe the level of cruelty this woman is displaying, the disregard for humanity, if this is true it is the most painful thing i have ever lived, if it is not true, it is the most inhuman thing anyone has said to me.

However having the idea of her having this disorder gives me the tools to deal with this in a rational way, reading about people who are in my situation comforts me because finally I know it´s not my fault, mind you i have a codependant personality otherwise she would have not placed her eyes on me and found me so atractive and I can see that now, for amoment I was thought I had lost touch with reality, I even thought I was an alcoholic and started going to AA(becuase everytime we went out to drink it ended badly and it was my fault because I had drinking problem)

I truly believed I was the worst. Now I feel as if a black cloud has been lifted from me and I can move forward and look back at this relationship diferently, I´m a very loving and compasionate person, I know I am, I know i am good looking, inteligent, hard working and funny guy i know there are people around me who truly care for me, 
I know that my inclinations toward music and art are respectable and not dumb, i know that my friends are not ignorant Aholes, I know that my female friends are not ****s or sleazy all of this i was slowly and surely peeled from me layer by layer however i now know that It also not her fault and the bes thing for me is to heal my personal wounds first and foremost if I ever want to have ahealthy loving relationship.

I will continue to post updates to look for your help and support.
Thanks and god Bless


----------



## Aaron38 (Jan 29, 2014)

I am sharing this story as a source of help for all those men that are living with a woman that has BPD and/or Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My ex-wife and I got married in our early 20's, and things were pretty good for the first 5 years. There were no major issues to speak of, and we loved each other very much. I was a typical overachiever, and went to a full time Masters Program, held down a 40 hour a week career, did all the cleaning, cooking, laundry, paid bills, did grocery shopping etc... I did these things because I had a ton of energy and thought that she truly appreciated all my hard work. She also had a full time career, and started her Masters Program as well. I also use to help her write her papers for her Masters program because she did so many additional volunteer activities at work, that she didn't have enough time.. This was a HUGE mistake on my part. 

Around the 5 year marker she assaulted me for the first time. I was watching my favorite tv show when she came home (The only show I ever watched once a week), and I would mute it during commercials to talk to her. When the show came back on, I told her that there was only 10 minutes left of the season finale and that she would have my undivided attention after the show. She picked the remote up and muted the show, and demanded that I continue to speak to her. I told her that she was rude since it was the only show I ever watched so I picked of the remote and un-muted it again. She then grabbed the remote, and muted it again, so I walked over to the television to unmute it, and the next thing I know I was bleeding from my head because she had chucked the remote directly into my forehead. I was devastated that the woman I loved and adored could do such a vicious thing to me. My first response was to pick up the remote, and before I threw it back at her (which is what I wanted to do), I punched it through a wall and broke it in a million pieces. We didn't speak the rest of the night, and the next day she sincerely apologized and said it would never happen again. 

About 4 months later, it happened again, except this time she also started punching and screaming at me. I was so confused because I didn't know what was going on, what I had done wrong, and again I deeply cared for her which is why it hurt me so bad. I am a very manly man, and served in the Armed Forces for 4 years in a combat unit, and was raised to always treat women with respect so I would never hit back. I also weight train and am very physically fit, so the whole thing was very humiliating for me. I would just try to get out of the situation as quickly as possible. This was the start of a downward trend where she gained complete control of my life. 

During year 6 of our marriage, she decided to start going to church. I told her that although I was spiritual, I didn't care to go to church but I also didn't mind if she went because it was obviously important to her. After about 4 or 5 months, she was insistent that I go, or she would withhold sex, ignore me, or just make my life extremely difficult if I did not go. I decided to start going just to appease her, and things would be better if I complied with her wishes. (This was a huge mistake on my part as I now know that I should have set better boundaries). You see, she would ignore me, argue with me, or make big issues out of little ones if I did not comply with her. She was a manipulative control freak that preyed on my good nature as a man to get what she wanted. 

This continued for the next year, and I would do things like write her papers for her Masters Program, continue to do all the house work, yard work, cooking, cleaning, bill paying, etc because I thought it would make her happy, and I could avoid the cold shoulder and arguments by doing these things. . What was really going on is that she was using me to propagate herself and her career. The physical violence also continued to escalate and she would hit me whenever she did not get what she wanted when I would stand my ground in arguments. 

She also became very controlling of which friends I could visit, and even insisted that I not see my parents unless she was present. If she called me (which she did about 5 times a day) I would get in trouble if I did not immediately answer. I remember I would be on the phone with my parents, and if she called I was so concerned about getting in trouble with her that I would quickly hang up the phone with my parents to answer her call so I would not get in trouble with her or have an argument in the evening. She also began questioning everything about my daily schedule. She wanted to know exactly where I was at 24/7, and this began to wear me down as a person. Again, I had no clue what had caused this change in her, but loved her so I kept putting up with it. I obviously became extremely distressed, and even considered separating with her at the 6 year marker, but I didn't because of my own financial co-dependency issues with her. (I did not realize I was co-dependent financially until I filed for divorce and started receiving counseling, but I will get to that later).

Heading into year 7, she began to become physically abusive of our 2 dogs (8 lbs chihuahuas) and would throw them down the hall until they hit the wall, or lock them in a tiny cage for 16 hours with no food or water. Obviously I would try to free the dogs or prevent her from abusing them, and then she would immidiatley physically or verbally abuse me. This again was wearing me down even more. I continued to write her papers and even do more around the house or do things for her work because when I did these things she would actually become affectionate again for 3 or 4 days and things would return to normal. This would only last 3 or 4 days though, and then she would return to the same patterns of verbal and physical abuse. 

Now this is going to be a shocker for most of you some of the things that started happening. She told me one day that I needed to stop flushing my dirty toilet paper down the toilet and that it needed to go in the trash can after I went number 2 because I was ruining our plumbing in the house. I stood my ground and even did research on the Internet to show her that it is a disease risk to have dirty fecal toilet paper sitting in trash cans.. I also explained to her that this is why the Romans developed septic systems to get rid of fecal matter over 800 years ago. None of this mattered, and she would actually open the bathroom door while I was going to the bathroom, and would yell at me if I flushed it down the toilet. Needless to say, we had several nasty arguments about this but she again wore me down to the point where I would only go to the bathroom when she wasn't home so I wouldn't have to hear it. She then started checking the trashcans in our bathrooms of our brand new house, and would still make an issue if she didn't see dirty toilet paper. This issue was never resolved until I finally left her. She also attacked me with a butcher knife during year 7 of our marriage, and broke a wine glass over my head. The violence had escalated to the point where my life was being threatened. I remember one argument where she was driving us home, and when I tried to stand my ground she accelerated the car to 120 MPH and yanked the wheel because she did not get her way. The car actually came up on two wheels, and by the grace of god she somehow regained control.

During year 7 of our marriage, she also told me that she could see and communicate with dead people. This seriously freaked me out, and I actually came home one day and saw her staring at our TV which was off for over 20 minutes. She was in a catatonic state, so I went back to the door in the garage and slammed it like I was just getting home. When I walked into the room where we were sitting, she told me she had been communicating with someone who recently passed. Because of the violence, controlling, nasty arguments, physical threats against me, and threatening to always divorce me if she didn't get her way, I finally broke down and told her we both needed to go to couples counseling. She flat out refused to do so, and said that shrinks were for crazy people and she was not crazy. Under the advice of my parents, I started to go alone. About 4 weeks into me going to a therapist, she got very angry at me one day and demanded to know what I was talking about. I told her she was more than welcome to join me, and instead of going, she made a list of 95 things that were wrong with me and wanted me to give it to the therapist. The therapist obviously saw the volatile nature of our relationship, and suggested my wife may have a personality disorder like BPD, but stated she had to see her to make an actual diagnosis. 

Well, I had had enough, and then it happened. I woke up one morning and had severe abdominal pain, and knew something was very wrong. I woke her up, and she told me to drive myself to the emergence room. I ended up having an emergency surgery and almost died. I was ready to leave her at the 7 and a half year marker, and now I was extremely disabled. It took me almost 5 months to recover, and during this time things even got worse. She would yell at me that I should be starting a business to make money since I was out on disability, and just 4 short weeks into my recovery would yell at me for sitting on the couch all day watching movies. Oh, I had my guts open from the surgery and had to heal from the inside out due to an infection I had gotten. I ended up enduring another year of her insanity, and started living in the guest bedroom. After I recovered enough to go back to work, I remember coming home one day and she had placed keyed locks on all the bedrooms, and even changed the password on my computer because I was no longer allowed to be on the computer or allowed in any bedroom but the guest bedroom. The physical violence continued, and I finally got the strength through counseling to leave her. 

I waited till she went on a vacation with her parents, and had 9 days to myself to get out. I got an apartment out in town, took the dogs, my clothes, my computer and car and left everything else. Our divorce took 3 years and cost a lot of money, but I can honestly say this was the best move I could have ever made. I continued to go to counseling for the next 18 months to identify my co-dependency, understand her mental illness (BPD and Narcissism), and fix my self. I even got an additional Masters degree in Psychology because I really needed to understand what happened. 

It has now been 6 years, and I couldn't be happier. I am remarried to an amazing and psychologically stable person, so my reflections on this may help other men out there that are suffering in similar situations which is why I am sharing my story. After getting my hands on a copy of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) for Psychological Disorder and having completed 18 graduate courses in psychology, I feel comfortable to make the assessment that my ex actually did suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissism. Now she has never been clinically diagnosed as most people with BPD and/or Narcissism are not because they refuse to go get medical help. I do know that she met the criteria in the DSM though. More importantly, I had to learn my fault in all of this. You see, I did not know how to set good healthy boundaries in the relationship, and was co-dependent on her for the money she brought in. She had and still has an amazing career, as many people with BPD and Narcissism do, but her personal life is in shambles. I truly believe had I not left, something terrible would have happened. The torment I went through in the marriage was also unbearable. It was very difficult to get out as she had gained so much control and power in the relationship, and I was too blind to understand what was going on. Her trying to separate me from friends and family was a protective mechanism on her part to try and prevent me from seeing the truth. With the help and support of my parents, family, even her family that was aware of our issues, I finally had the strength to leave.

As a psychologist now I would always recommend counseling first, however with these types of personality disorders, unfortunately counseling only works if both parties are willing to go and willing to get help. I actually feared for my life the last 6 months I was with her, and now realize that leaving and getting a divorce was the BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME. I also kept both dogs and got them out of the abusive situation as well. They have had an awesome life with me and my new wife, and have been extremely pampered since we left. My advise is to try counseling and every means necessary to save the marriage, however if anything that I have said in this story rings a bell with you, GET OUT and DON"T GO BACK. It is hard to leave, it is hard to heal yourself and understand, but life is worth living, and no man or woman should ever be subjected to physical violence, mental illness, or controlling significant others. They are the ones with the problem, and the only thing you can really change is you. You have control over your life and your decisions, you have control to change you, which may mean moving on, you have the control over you to make a decision and get out. It may not be easy, but it is worth it in the long run to not be in an abusive relationship.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Aaron, welcome to the TAM forum. Thanks for posting such a detailed and articulate description of your experiences with an exW having strong BPD and NPD traits. I am glad to hear that you used your experiences as a springboard for learning about basic human behaviors. I am hopeful you will stay around and continue to share your insights and experiences with other TAM members and lurkers.


> As a psychologist now I would always recommend counseling first, however with these types of personality disorders, unfortunately counseling only works if both parties are willing to go and willing to get help.


If you mean IC, I would agree it is possible for counseling to be very helpful. If you are referring to couples counseling (i.e., MC), however, I would not recommend it for anyone married to a BPDer -- until that BPDer has already had several years of IC. 

My experience is that MC generally is a total waste of time and money for anyone married to a BPDer (i.e., a person having strong BPD traits). Indeed, even IC generally is unproductive because it is rare for a BPDer to have both the self awareness and ego strength necessary to be willing to take advantage of the excellent treatment programs that are available. 

I took my BPDer exW, for example, to six different psychologists and three MCs -- all to no avail. Because she was in weekly treatment for 15 years, I spent a small fortune on her therapy. She apparently only played mind games with the psychologists and, instead of getting better, she got worse over the years. If you would like to read more about my experiences, I suggest you read my several posts at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522.


----------



## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

I have a question for those of you are experienced in dealing with BPD spouses. Is it common for someone who is suffering from BPD to mirror what you are actually thinking or feeling? For example, there would be several occasions where I would more or less be the "victim" of certain behaviors but than he would reflect to me verbally exactly would I should be thinking, feeling, or saying to him about his behaviors. It was very freaky. Is this common?


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

This is an interesting thread to read. I can't tell if my wife has BPD or NPD, but she does have several of the symptoms. 

The problem with looking back and comparing past events to a list of symptoms is that I can see how she could easily say that I am BDP/NPD. It's kind of like when you have a sore throat and go look up symptoms on the web. Before you know it you've matched your signs to seven different dread diseases.

I'm not trying to thread hijack, but what do you call a woman who has been married and divorced three times, never thinks she's wrong, can't handle constructive criticism, does things her way, ignores advice from therapists and clergy, puts her needs and wants first, says she feels like everything she does is wrong when you point out one specific thing, comes from a bad family filled with substance abuse and mental issues, and has a pattern of conflict and bad relationships?

Seriously, I need to know so I can move on emotionally. I saw some signs but most of it came out a few years into the marriage, only after our first troubles started. Please don't ask why was I attracted to her in the first place. We dated for seven years and never had one fight. It was only after we had disagreements that her true colors started to show. The "you changed" speech and the blame shifting. I seen how she actively despised her 2XH and wished for his death. Why i asked if you left him? Can't you just be civil for the sake of your kids? You can't change him, why not change how you react.

In the end she said I changed and we had nothing in common. Really? We had a lot in common when we married. She said I was trying to control her and run her life. That I was selfish. She said these things about her second husband when I asked her why she dumped him.

I don't know if she has a legitimate mental health disorder, of if she is just a plain old fashioned selfish user who has dumped me now that she has found greener pastures. My family and friends are saying her reasons for leaving are nonsense; that couples don't divorce for common disagreements found in relationships. 

When she ended it she said she would be better of without me. NC except for emails related only to divorce details. I asked by email are you sure this is what you want. She said yes she doesn't love me. How does that happen overnight unless you were never really in it for the long haul?

Again, sorry if this is considered a hijack but I need to know other opinions. Thanks.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Wow, Aaron, SCARY. Sounds like you had a malignant narcissist on your hands. To have that combined with strong BPD traits would be just a living hell. So sorry to hear what you went through, and glad that you found happiness and health for yourself and your poor dogs.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

ICLH said:


> I have a question for those of you are experienced in dealing with BPD spouses. Is it common for someone who is suffering from BPD to mirror what you are actually thinking or feeling? For example, there would be several occasions where I would more or less be the "victim" of certain behaviors but than he would reflect to me verbally exactly would I should be thinking, feeling, or saying to him about his behaviors. It was very freaky. Is this common?


Projection and mirroring are very common in BPD, yes.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> I can't tell if my wife has BPD or NPD, but she does have several of the symptoms.


Pictureless, every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD symptoms, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has all the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your W has the nine symptoms. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she has most of the BPD warning signs at a strong and persistent level. 


> I saw some signs but most of it came out a few years into the marriage, only after our first troubles started. ...We dated for seven years and never had one fight.


I've never heard of a BPDer relationship being free of fights for 7 years of dating and an additional 3 years of the marriage. When a person has a lifetime condition of BPD traits, those symptoms do not lie hidden for ten years. What you seem to be describing, then, is a flareup of the normal BPD traits most people have. These flareups can be caused by a hormone change (e.g., pregnancy, postpartum, mid-life), severe stress, drug abuse, or a brain injury or tumor. Significantly, even though these flareups may last as long as two years, having a flareup does not imply that a person "has BPD," i.e., has a lifetime condition of BPD. This, at least, is my understanding of it, Pictureless.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Pictureless, every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD symptoms, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has all the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your W has the nine symptoms. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she has most of the BPD warning signs at a strong and persistent level.
> I've never heard of a BPDer relationship being free of fights for 7 years of dating and an additional 3 years of the marriage. When a person has a lifetime condition of BPD traits, those symptoms do not lie hidden for ten years. What you seem to be describing, then, is a flareup of the normal BPD traits most people have. These flareups can be caused by a hormone change (e.g., pregnancy, postpartum, mid-life), severe stress, drug abuse, or a brain injury or tumor. Significantly, even though these flareups may last as long as two years, having a flareup does not imply that a person "has BPD," i.e., has a lifetime condition of BPD. This, at least, is my understanding of it, Pictureless.


Thank you very much for answering. So do you think I just married an unsafe person? Or was I always plan b? It seems utterly bizarre how at 7 am she says I love you, and then at 6 she's done. NC like I never existed. Ignores teachings of MC and clergy. Mails divorce documents to me. Completely opposite of how she was in the beginning. Three marriages, now three divorces. Is it midlife crisis? Menopause? Grass is greener? Mental problems? A little of all? Or did she just not ever really love me?


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Waffling may just be her uncertainty. She wants to D and is afraid she will relentl so she put up a very high wall.

Nothing happens overnight. Surely you saw it coming. 

When men say they are blindsided, I generally interpret that to mean they were not listening and were not taking anything they did see or hear seriously. If they are generally happy, they think things are generally fine. 

They also tend to be passive guys.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Waffling may just be her uncertainty. She wants to D and is afraid she will relentl so she put up a very high wall.
> 
> Nothing happens overnight. Surely you saw it coming.
> 
> ...


We spent most of last year separated and living apart. We were trying to R and were in MC. We had another argument and then the next day it was done. 7 am she loves me, 6 pm we're through. A friend said it sounds like she's got anger issues. Apparently. I know it's over. I can't have that back. I have to convince myself I'm better off without her special blend of crazy.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

There can really be a final straw.

She probably still loved you at the end of the day. But some people have to kill something hard so they can stop themselves from going back again and again.

That said, are you sure she didn't have another man?


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

When things don't quite add up - when stories seem incomplete, illogical and irrational - it's usually because you're not getting the whole story.

This indicates deceit which often times means there's someone else.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> When things don't quite add up - when stories seem incomplete, illogical and irrational - it's usually because you're not getting the whole story.
> 
> This indicates deceit which often times means there's someone else.


I'm almost certain it's another man but what can I do, right.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

It makes no sense to confront a lying deceiver that's told me she doesn't love me which is why she's divorcing me. Why do I still care?


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Oh. Then there is nothing to wonder about.

Did she straddle previous relationships?


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Oh. Then there is nothing to wonder about.
> 
> Did she straddle previous relationships?


Not sure what you mean by straddle. She divorced her previous two husbands. Now she's divorcing me. IDK why but I'm getting worse each day, not better.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Was there already a guy to go to before the other divorces?

Is she a cheater?

Some people can't break up without someone in the wings.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> Not sure what you mean by straddle. She divorced her previous two husbands. Now she's divorcing me. IDK why but I'm getting worse each day, not better.


It's because all your focus is on her.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I DK her. But you are number 3.

It probably isn't you.

She must be exciting as heck to have you hung up on her still.

But look at it this way. She was into you. So someone else will be too.

Bottom line. If you let her go and find yourself again, women will be into you.

It is very simple and very true.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> It's because all your focus is on her.


You're right. I have to let it go now.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> I DK her. But you are number 3.
> 
> It probably isn't you.
> 
> ...


You are right about being hung up on her. Time to let go.

She WAS into me. And she is wrong. I didn't change, SHE DID. My goodness, why can't I remember this? She gaslighted me so bad even I'm believing her bull cookies.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

OK, that's it, no more poor me posts. PEOPLE-Hold me to it.

From now on I'm just commenting to try and help others. 

Bah humbug to you too Scrooge!


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> OK, that's it, no more poor me posts. PEOPLE-Hold me to it.
> 
> From now on I'm just commenting to try and help others.
> 
> Bah humbug to you too Scrooge!


Help yourself first.

It's the only way to grow.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

working_together said:


> Your post was amazing, so much information and examples. I have a question....
> 
> How does a person tell the difference between someone who is emotionally/verbally abusive, and someone who has BPD traits. I used to think I was crazy because my H used to spin things around to make it my fault, or change what I had said.
> 
> ...


I think that's more scoiopathic than borderline. My ex was that way. In the end it doesn't matter why they do it, what matters is that they are incapable of living without doing it. (It gives them a sense of control over other people, they LIKE the surge of whatever that comes from having complete control over a situation using words and emotions against people. It has to do with messing seriously with what keeps all of good society glued together, and it gives them pleasure.) In short, it's not just about you, it has to do with good people having good relationships based on intuitive knowledge of each other, that is undermined with words designed specifically to distort perceptions of reality. This is not borderline. This is sociopathic. And you can bet that behind your back, the sociopath is telling other people that you are delusional, that you never said anything like she/he thought they did, that you need your meds adjusted, etc. So when you go to them in future to ask to confirm things, they treat you like you're disabled...getting more protective of your kids, questioning you about normal stuff, etc. 

When you encounter a sociopath you should not try to understand them. You should not even try to do damage control. You should just DISTANCE yourself from them, lead your sane life apart from them, and let others draw their own conclusions about who is truth telling and who is just messing with them. Basically, step out of that huge pile of sh*t, and get away from it.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> OK, that's it, no more poor me posts. PEOPLE-Hold me to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Picture yourself sitting in a room with her. You're sitting on one side and she on another. 

Now imagine all your connections, whatever they may be, represented as cords or cables of various thickness, stretched between the two of you. 

As you do this tell us what those connections are.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Picture yourself sitting in a room with her. You're sitting on one side and she on another.
> 
> Now imagine all your connections, whatever they may be, represented as cords or cables of various thickness, stretched between the two of you.
> 
> As you do this tell us what those connections are.


All I can come up with now is:

Anger
Disagreement
Sex
Activities/shared interests
Past memories


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

That's fine, that's a good start 

Now take some kind of tool, whatever kind of tool you think of, and imagine yourself cutting those cords and cables. 

Anger will be one of the last to go. It's the emotional connections you have with her that fuel the anger. 

Sex and activities/shared interests will be easier; you can experience these things with anyone can't you?

Just keep visualizing the cables that represent the connections being cut whenever you think about these things. 

Repetition is key. Keep doing it over and over until those connections are severed. 

Visualization exercises are very good tools.


----------

