# Isn't sex what makes the difference?



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I notice that people with low sex drive is a big topic here. My x wife had a low sex drive, and she justified it by acting like I was a sexual weirdo for wanting more sex. It was the famous, "I feel like all you want is sex" thing. But really, isn't sex what makes the difference? Isn't that attraction what makes two people want to have a relationship anyway? But it seems like when one doesn't want sex, they often try to make the other partner seem strange for wanting it and act like it isn't important.

I probably won't be able to put into words exactly what I feel, but here goes. I know one shouldn't marry just for sex, and I did not, but when I married my wife, I certainly thought that was a normal part of the package. If I had just wanted "companionship," my brother and I could have just hung out all our lives. He and I are very close. We love being around each other, we have the same sense of humor, we understand each other, there is no emotional weirdness, and we have a ball when we are together. So, why do people bother to get married and then act like sex is not important. If it's not, why not just hang out with a friend all your life? 

Once people are married and have kids, i realize it becomes a different ballgame. But if one could look into the future and see that their partner would no longer care about sex in a few years, then why proceed? I think sex is that one "special" thing that helps create a bond, and I can't understand why some people don't desire it on some kind of regular basis. 

My sister-in-law and her husband have sex about once every 4 or 5 months according to my x. She says she desires the companionship rather than sex. All I can say is, "her poor husband." Why didn't she just move in with a buddy?

I've probably rambled.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I can offer no insightful additions to this post other than "exactly".


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## moonangel (Jan 19, 2011)

I totally agree as well!

There is one thing that maybe you forgot to think about, southbound, and that is that sometimes when a wife (not all) becomes a mother, she does, for a time, loose that sex drive, and then get back into it when the kids are passed toddler. Okay, actually, for me that's how it was. Husband understood though. There were times...say, about 8 years that I didn't want my husband to touch my nipples because mentally, my motherly brain wouldn't allow anyone else to have them except for our babies. And, having sex was just always too much work because of the clean up and because my mind was always thinking about the babies (is the baby asleep? Was that a cry I heard? Is baby hungry? etc). Husband would tell me not to worry about those things but I couldn't help it. Just recently, I had an epiphany, realizing that my kids are not babies anymore. I don't have to plan potty training or dress my youngest anymore. I still have to bathe and keep an eye on her in the bath but hey...soon I won't have to anymore! Anyway, just realizing this, I suddenly became extra sexual, wanting sex three to four days in a row! Husband thought it strange but he was more than happy and didn't turn me down even when he was seriously tired and probably half asleep while we were going at it.

So, maybe it could just be that. But then again, some people just don't really care for sex. I know I couldn't live without it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I would think everyone who has walked in your shoes feels exactly as you , has the same questions & feels strongly about all that you say. It is one of the reasons some feel we should not wait until marriage to feel each other out & see if we are sexually compatible. 

But then plenty of stories also where the sexual compatibility WAS there, things were hot & heavy, then they slowed down to a crawl, for whatever reason. Kids , resentment, drugs that messed with the hormones, loss of attraction, etc. 

Let's face it, trusting another human being to care about us enough, devoting their life to us & willing their bodies for our pleasure to keep us happy, it is all a "risk" we take when we say "I do", isn't it??

The best any of us can do - is not rush into marraige, get to know this person inside & all, all quirks, weakneses, goals, beliefs, understand their communication style, have a few fights along the way even , know what they enjoy about sex & what sex means to them & NOT ignore any red flags -as these can come back to haunt later in marraige.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

It's a deflection mechanism. It's denial.

By making the problem about you, they don't have to look at themselves. And if you're a 'Nice Guy' you grudgingly allow them to make it about you ... to the point that you begin to wonder if they are right and you are a weirdo.

Having sexual desire for your spouse after years of marriage should be something to celebrate, be happy about and proud of. 

But instead, the LD spouse minimizes it altogether, reducing it to the belief that all you want is sex, you have no self control, and simply see your partner as an object. 

Those kinds of beliefs are weird ... unhealthy, and without a doubt spell doom for the marriage.

It's blame-shifting. 

They do want sex. They just don't want sex with _you_. And that can be difficult to accept.

It's not uncommon for a woman to go from a tigress in bed while she is trying to 'win' you ... only to switch over to nun-mode once you're married with children.


This is why we so frequently refer to maintaining 'attraction' when we talk about being a better man.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Deejo said:


> It's a deflection mechanism. It's denial.
> 
> By making the problem about you, they don't have to look at themselves. And if you're a 'Nice Guy' you grudgingly allow them to make it about you ... to the point that you begin to wonder if they are right and you are a weirdo.
> 
> ...


You could so be talking about my husband with all of this. Expect that I honestly do not think he wants sex with anyone. I really feel he is simply asexual. 

It's so hard to come to terms with. I know that I should not internalize his rejection--but how does one not internalize it? 

My husband has found a wonderful new way of " minimizing" my need for sex. The last time I was upset when he rejected sex from me, he said, "I think it is selfish of you to ask me to change my plans [of playing WOW till 2am] for you whims. I don't ask you to change your plans for me. Why do you want me to stop when I'm in the middle of something, when I don't do that to you?" 

Talk about feeling like a dog afterwards.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Pandakiss said:


> i think sex is very important in marriage. my mother in law asked me about it...and i said, as your daughter in law..the other woman who married your son...only the 2 times to have kids..wife to wife...4/5 times a week.
> 
> she said oh..and we never talked about it again...lol. *i agree when we women have kids, its hard to turn off mommy and back into vixen. to me its part of being a woman. *
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm weird or wired differently than other women, but I have never had trouble with going from vixen to mommy or back again. I never separated sex from any role in my life. I never felt like I needed to be a vixen in order to have sex. Sex for is is an emotional need. I never saw these different things like friend, wife, mother, daughter, daughter-in-law as being mutually exclusive to sex. If I don't have the sex in my life then I'm not going to feel any sort of compassion from him or towards him.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

In my experience, the sexual attraction has always been necessary to maintain my motivation for a relationship to keep moving forward.
In my dating years, if I wasn't attracted, I just didn't care to invest myself in any other way.
But now with my H, it's all part of what keeps us going.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Idontknownow (Sep 30, 2010)

I think sex is very important. I love sex and always felt keeping my husband sexually satisfied would keep him happy.

Little did I know he's a lot deeper then that  We had other deficits in our marriage and he chose to have an EA in the midst of that. He said he never wanted sex (even though he was deployed at the time and wasnt getting it regularly). 

So I think that sex should always be a high priority from both partners BUT it's important not to rely on how many times you have sex a week to think things are OK.


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## Longtime Husband (Dec 14, 2009)

This is a great thread. 

For the first 20 years of my marriage, my wife minimized my need for sex as petty, childish & immature. I have to say that she kinda had me mostly convinced that she was right for much of the time. Then, just over a year ago, I got sort of fed up with the situation & had what ended up being a very interesting, marriage changing discussion with her....even though it became a very pointed, maybe even slightly ugly at the time.

At the beginning of the talk, I explained to her that sex was not some sophomoric obsession that I had kept around from my youth, it is a need of mine.....and it does not make me a "needy" person... It makes me human. A lot of interesting insight into her fouled up POV began to come out at that point. One of the more interesting comments she made was that she and her girlfriends would apparently discuss sex fairly frequently and they all agreed with her that sex just really isn't important. And she used that to try to re-assert her original long-held stance on the topic. My response was to say two things: first, I don't give a rat's @$$ what any of her friends think about sex. And second, I asked her, of the girlfriends who felt this way, how many of them were in HAPPY marriages.....to heterosexual men. SILENCE! 

Late in this discussion, she very defiantly told me that she simply was not going to change herself and I would just have to learn to accept her low drive as being "who she is". I finished the sentence for her by saying, ".....said the bitter, divorced 40-something woman". I then, proceeded to move into the spare bedroom for the next two nights. I thought, "my god she is going to let this marriage fall apart just to save face and her pride". But, after 20 years, I was just not going to budge any more. I was simply demanding that she compromise with me. I was asking (demanding) that she commit to sex at least once per week & that she take ownership (meaning that she initiates) for at least one per month. Her stance was just pretty much, "hell no".

After two days, she was an emotional mess & completely caved. Details aside, we have enjoyed the best year of our marriage, averaging at least 2-3 times per week...and the quality has gone WAY up. The thing is, I know for a fact that she enjoys the marriage way more with this new intimacy as well.

I guess my point is that, sometimes you have to be willing to go totally "alpha" on your spouse to set things right.....and then be willing to plant your feet on the issue at all costs. The other part of the equation that cannot be overlooked or understated in this strategy is that you must hold YOURSELF to an equally high standard of meeting your spouse's non-sexual needs as you hold them to on your needs.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Like I have said, until you have come to terms with the reality that standing your ground may mean the end of your relationship - and your partner believes that as well ... very little is likely to change despite however much talking, reasoning, or negotiating you do.

Actions speak much, much, louder than words.

Ending up with a win/win, happier husband, happier wife, healthier marriage ... I will never, ever, tire of reading those stories. Thanks for sharing yours Longtime Husband.


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## Longtime Husband (Dec 14, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Like I have said, until you have come to terms with the reality that standing your ground may mean the end of your relationship - and your partner believes that as well ... very little is likely to change despite however much talking, reasoning, or negotiating you do.
> 
> Actions speak much, much, louder than words.
> 
> Ending up with a win/win, happier husband, happier wife, healthier marriage ... I will never, ever, tire of reading those stories. Thanks for sharing yours Longtime Husband.


Hey, we'd burn up in house fires but for the discomfort that forces us to do something about it!


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## JrsMrs (Dec 27, 2010)

Definitely. The thing that makes a marital relationship different from any other kind of close friendship/companionship is the romance/sex aspect. If you don't want that, why get married? I can't imagine desiring a partner relationship that passion & sex aren't a part of. I just feel like I want all the good things that life has to offer, and sex is a VERY good thing!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Longtime Husband said:


> This is a great thread.
> 
> For the first 20 years of my marriage, my wife minimized my need for sex as petty, childish & immature. I have to say that she kinda had me mostly convinced that she was right for much of the time. Then, just over a year ago, I got sort of fed up with the situation & had what ended up being a very interesting, marriage changing discussion with her....even though it became a very pointed, maybe even slightly ugly at the time.
> 
> ...


Your experience sounds similar to mine up to the point of a talk helping things. My wife never changed. Like your wife, she had friends who didn't think sex was important, and she had a sister who had sex once every 4 or 5 months because she needed the "companionship" more than sex. In her mind, that helped justify her lack of drive.:scratchhead: 

My wife acted as though sex was more "dirty" than other needs. For example, if she needed roses on Valentine's day and back scratches after a hard day's work to be happy, somehow, that was more "normal" to her than needing sex to feel loved and happy.


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## Longtime Husband (Dec 14, 2009)

southbound said:


> Your experience sounds similar to mine up to the point of a talk helping things. My wife never changed. Like your wife, she had friends who didn't think sex was important, and she had a sister who had sex once every 4 or 5 months because she needed the "companionship" more than sex. In her mind, that helped justify her lack of drive.:scratchhead:
> 
> My wife acted as though sex was more "dirty" than other needs. For example, if she needed roses on Valentine's day and back scratches after a hard day's work to be happy, somehow, that was more "normal" to her than needing sex to feel loved and happy.


Yeah, I can say from experience that your wife is the way she is for the same reason that a dog licks himself, if you know what I mean.

You can talk all you want but, until you decide that you're not willing to accept it any longer & you're willing to do WEIT, even if that means throwing a few elbows (in the figurative sense, of course)--and youre willing to live with the consequences, little is likely to change. 

Just because you're married, does not mean that the natural order of things ceases to exist. It's a "survival of the fittest" world. You have to start by asking YOURSELF some tough questions.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Longtime Husband said:


> Yeah, I can say from experience that your wife is the way she is for the same reason that a dog licks himself, if you know what I mean.
> 
> You can talk all you want but, until you decide that you're not willing to accept it any longer & you're willing to do WEIT, even if that means throwing a few elbows (in the figurative sense, of course)--and youre willing to live with the consequences, little is likely to change.
> 
> Just because you're married, does not mean that the natural order of things ceases to exist. It's a "survival of the fittest" world. You have to start by asking YOURSELF some tough questions.



I did have a lot of conversations with her about my sexual needs and did get firm several times, but the firmer I got, the more dirty she acted like it was. She could always justify her viewpoint in her mind. 

Let me ask this, can participating in something sexual that you don't like turn your stomach to the point you fall out of love with your spouse? I've described this before, but here goes again.

Sometime during the early part of our marriage, she would tie me up and give me a hand job. That was probably the spiciest thing we ever did. I honestly can't remember how that got started, but i loved it. I got the impression that it wasn't her favorite thing, but I never thought she despised it, she even asked a few times over the years if I would like her to do it.

When we were on the verge of divorce, she said that it was disgusting because that is what happens when people are raped and she thought it disrespectful that i would ask her to do that.

The thing is, I never tied her up, she was tying me up. She also didn't like giving oral or anal, and i never pressed that, so that was in her favor.

Could this tie-up thing have disgusted her that much and turned her against sex?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

southbound said:


> I did have a lot of conversations with her about my sexual needs and did get firm several times, but the firmer I got, the more dirty she acted like it was. She could always justify her viewpoint in her mind.
> 
> Let me ask this, can participating in something sexual that you don't like turn your stomach to the point you fall out of love with your spouse? I've described this before, but here goes again.
> 
> ...


No.

She got to a place where she no longer found you attractive - and fed her avoidance and lack of attraction by creating an aversion to sex ... with you.

She placed no value on your needs. She actually chose instead to minimize them and belittle them.

Put her in a different relationship with a different guy, and she may be just as likely to don a leather hood and break out hand-cuffs, if that is what he likes ... and she is actively invested in him. That's the way it rolls.

My ex was a freak in the sheets at the start of our relationship for almost 3 years. Nothing was off the menu ... and she used to state as much.

Fast forward a few years following marriage. Not only were all of those things she used to do with gusto, off the menu, to her they were now "disgusting".

So when things were fresh and attraction was strong, wanting to be creative and daring makes you a hero.

When the relationship becomes routine and you get caught up in a broken dynamic where attraction has died ... you're a freak.

By recognizing the onset of attraction killing behavior ... and NOT doing those things, and being clear about boundaries and priorities, particularly regarding sex ... you either stay out of the 'freak zone' or come to recognize that your LD spouse pulled a bait and switch.


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## Longtime Husband (Dec 14, 2009)

southbound said:


> I did have a lot of conversations with her about my sexual needs and did get firm several times, but the firmer I got, the more dirty she acted like it was. She could always justify her viewpoint in her mind.
> 
> Let me ask this, can participating in something sexual that you don't like turn your stomach to the point you fall out of love with your spouse? I've described this before, but here goes again.
> 
> ...


Having any knowledge about stuff of this nature would be above my pay grade, particularly with human relationship dynamics between your wife and you that I obviously know nothing about.

What I do have a handle on (albeit maybe not the greatest at articulating) is the basic "economic equation" in all human relationships which dictates that, if you bring something she values to the table, she will happily go out of her way to meet your demands in order to keep you "at the table"....assuming she loves you in has at least some attraction to you, I guess (whatever "love & attraction" means to her)


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## midlifecrisis (Jan 30, 2011)

I'd like to put my 2 cents in, if that's OK. I have been with my husband for 30 yrs and what I have tried to tell him over and over again is this:
For women, a lot of sex is "cerebral". By that, I mean, if we have a lot on our minds or we have other issues happening in the marriage, the physical part won't happen without the mental.
If the two of you can talk things out, respect each others boundaries and not place "blame", then you can work through this problem.
Also, romance is very important to women. Sometimes a quickie is OK, but when it becomes routine, we lose interest.
Sorry, just being honest. I have been struggling with this in my marriage also. I am not an expert, by any means, but these are things I have learned (the hard way), over the years.


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## Longtime Husband (Dec 14, 2009)

midlifecrisis said:


> I'd like to put my 2 cents in, if that's OK. I have been with my husband for 30 yrs and what I have tried to tell him over and over again is this:
> For women, a lot of sex is "cerebral". By that, I mean, if we have a lot on our minds or we have other issues happening in the marriage, the physical part won't happen without the mental.
> If the two of you can talk things out, respect each others boundaries and not place "blame", then you can work through this problem.
> Also, romance is very important to women. Sometimes a quickie is OK, but when it becomes routine, we lose interest.
> Sorry, just being honest. I have been struggling with this in my marriage also. I am not an expert, by any means, but these are things I have learned (the hard way), over the years.


I think that you are spot-on with all that you say. However, I have to respectfully point out that this "stuff" on womens' minds is a bunch of clutter that comes out as a laundry list of excuses. My wife is smarter than me, she really is. But I highly doubt that she even really knows what turns her on & what does not. I base this on 25 years together & several very fruitless heart-to-hearts where she said a lot of the same things you are saying here. I tried everything that a NICE & LOVING husband would do. FAIL! I heard all about everything from her low sex drive.....low energy level....stress at work...kids always around.....blah...Blah.....BLAH! I couldn't do anything about any of this no matter how hard I worked & highly prioritized her & did all the housework, ect.

Once I finally "manned up" & truly pushed my chips to the center of the table" (so to speak), it is amazing how quickly her mind cleared & she began feeling a lot of thing that she just couldn't seem to feel only 48 hours before. Nothing else in her world changed. Kids still there. Job stress still there. Housework still there. You get my point....

I think that, if it's true that we get what we give, it's at least as true that we get what we tolerate.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

i love reading the success stories. :smthumbup: In my case, as the low libido spuse, understanding made me change. I don't think I would have responded favorably to threats, I was on the verge of leaving that would have pushed me out of the door. 

I am convinced from reading stories of success and failure that to get a LD spouse on the same page, that one size does not fit all. There are many factors, i.e. changes in the attitude of the HD spouse. MEM written wonderfully about what he has accomplished. Fear of loss, emotional understanding, realization of being stupid, deep love are all reasons that a LD person changes. 

My point is that what works for one couple will not work for everyone and the HD spouse has to find the "hook" or the factor that will motivate. Sometimes nothing will or it is so elusive that it is impossible to find. Also the problems in the marriage has to be addressed at the same time - a lazy, selfish, sexually unskilled, abusive HD spouse is unlikely to meet with success. 

To be honest, I really still have a hard time understanding exactly how not having sex made my husband so depressed. But I know it to be true and it will never happen again. I believe it's difficult for men and woman to understand each other for some reason but love makes a leap of faith possible. You really don't need to understand how things work just push the right button to get it going. 

If you can not get your spouse to accept that what you are feeling is just the way it is. Understanding in the sense of feeling the same way, is not a requirement to change. A high level of love, a desire to see a spouse happy and a complicity for empathy motivates change, that's what did it for me. I don't say that a spouse who does not change lacks love but something is lacking. 

Anyone else feel this way?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I believe there are a lot of reasons for having a low sex drive as people have listed here. It would probably be just as strange to go through your entire life with the same sex drive. I suppose the point I was trying to make is that people need to address the problems and not act like sex doesn't matter or that the one who wants it is a weirdo; if sex doesn't matter, then just hang out with a buddy all your life.

It was also mentioned that it doesn't seem like women even know what turns them on sometimes. Over the years, my wife gave me all kinds of things she thought. Once she said it might be because she never got to see me in my good clothes. She left for work before me and got home after me, so she rarely saw me dressed up. So, I started leaving them on in the evening. Did it work, no. I tried all the things she said she thought she needed, but it never seemed to increase her sex drive. 

She had a very exhausting job, so I took the load of the housework off of her; did that help? No. Did it help when she got a two week vacation or when we went on vacation? No.
One might see where I felt it was hopeless.


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## Longtime Husband (Dec 14, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> i love reading the success stories. :smthumbup: In my case, as the low libido spuse, understanding made me change. I don't think I would have responded favorably to threats, I was on the verge of leaving that would have pushed me out of the door.


I don't think that anyone has advocated threats, I certainly have not & would not. And I have not read any rational person on these forums do do. There is an enormous fundamental difference between an ultimatum and a threat. One, is an "arrow in the quiver" which one must earn the right, but still takes a lot of courage to use (which is what makes it so elegantly effective). The other is just words which wear out easily & often backfire, just as I think you suggest. 

I really think that this, like most problems in life, have much simpler solutions that we think. Not easier....but simpler.


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## princessaqua (Jan 11, 2011)

Can I ask your opinion, what if this happens to the wife, rather than the hubby? How can I bring this thing up to him? 
My husband has a stressful days at the office lately n his keen in sex going from so-so towards nothing now. If I give a hint of wanting to talk about it, he already starts the conversation with: "what's wrong? I have already so many things in my mind today", so it's just kinda turn me off already, so I said, "well, never mind then".
Other than that he's trying to show his attention to, but never anything towards sex.


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## Longtime Husband (Dec 14, 2009)

I don't know if your question was directed at me but I can't even imagine being too stressed for sex. At least not where it lasted more than a few minutes anyway. 

I've been too sick for sex before, but that was when I was in the hospital (in and out of the ICU) for 6 weeks. It wasn't long after I returned home that my drive returned. Hell, I could barely climb the stairs to my bedroom....had an IV in my arm & was weak as hell & not sure if I would ever be "right". I still wanted sex & found enough energy for it.

I really think, for "normal" males, sex is not something we do while we are living our lives. It's our very purpose for existing to begin with & everything else we do supports that purpose.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Longtime Husband said:


> I don't know if your question was directed at me but I can't even imagine being too stressed for sex. At least not where it lasted more than a few minutes anyway.
> 
> I've been too sick for sex before, but that was when I was in the hospital (in and out of the ICU) for 6 weeks. It wasn't long after I returned home that my drive returned. Hell, I could barely climb the stairs to my bedroom....had an IV in my arm & was weak as hell & not sure if I would ever be "right". I still wanted sex & found enough energy for it.
> 
> I really think, for "normal" males, sex is not something we do while we are living our lives. It's our very purpose for existing to begin with & everything else we do supports that purpose.


I don't think I've ever been too stressed for sex either, and I have been stressed before. Sex is a stress reliever for me. If I had a hard day on the job, nothing would have been better than to fall into my wife's arms and make love, but to her, it seemed like a stress producer.:scratchhead: It's like everything in the universe had to be perfect for my wife to want sex, but having sex just made other problems not seem so bad to me.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

princessaqua said:


> Can I ask your opinion, what if this happens to the wife, rather than the hubby? How can I bring this thing up to him?
> My husband has a stressful days at the office lately n his keen in sex going from so-so towards nothing now. If I give a hint of wanting to talk about it, he already starts the conversation with: "what's wrong? I have already so many things in my mind today", so it's just kinda turn me off already, so I said, "well, never mind then".
> Other than that he's trying to show his attention to, but never anything towards sex.


I too would love an answer to this question. I'm in a similar boat with my husband. I hear so much from women who are the low libido spouse, but I never hear from men who are the low libido spouse. I wish I knew what it was, and how to overcome it. But at 15 years of trying I'm at the point where I'm ready to give up. I feel like I'm trapped in a slow death at this point. All I want is for a man who wants me as well. Who is willing to share passion. I want it to be with my husband--who in almost all other respects is a nice guy. But he is so cold emotionally and physically. I don't understand it. I know I'm at the point where if someone came along and who was interested in me I do not feel like I could resist it.


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## princessaqua (Jan 11, 2011)

sailorgirl said:


> I too would love an answer to this question. I'm in a similar boat with my husband. I hear so much from women who are the low libido spouse, but I never hear from men who are the low libido spouse. I wish I knew what it was, and how to overcome it. But at 15 years of trying I'm at the point where I'm ready to give up. I feel like I'm trapped in a slow death at this point. All I want is for a man who wants me as well. Who is willing to share passion. I want it to be with my husband--who in almost all other respects is a nice guy. But he is so cold emotionally and physically. I don't understand it. I know I'm at the point where if someone came along and who was interested in me I do not feel like I could resist it.


Thank u sailorgirl...at least I know I'm not alone in this. I was wondering, should I be like LH who confronted the wife, being the 'female Alpha'. 
Guys..do you think it will work? I really wanna hear from the hubby with low libido. What if your wife confronts u, ask u to make schedule, like to do it at least once a week, what will u respond? will u back off, make yourself cold even more, or will u change for the better?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

princessaqua said:


> Thank u sailorgirl...at least I know I'm not alone in this. I was wondering, should I be like LH who confronted the wife, being the 'female Alpha'.
> Guys..do you think it will work? I really wanna hear from the hubby with low libido. What if your wife confronts u, ask u to make schedule, like to do it at least once a week, what will u respond? will u back off, make yourself cold even more, or will u change for the better?


You're not gong to find many, if any, husbands with low libidos on these boards.

Nobody likes to feel like they are being coerced into anything. Is your husband attracted to you? Has your physical appearance changed a great deal since you were dating or got married?

Attraction is a HUGE deal.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Deejo said:


> It's a deflection mechanism. It's denial.
> 
> By making the problem about you, they don't have to look at themselves. And if you're a 'Nice Guy' you grudgingly allow them to make it about you ... to the point that you begin to wonder if they are right and you are a weirdo.
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is EXACTLY what my husband tried to do.

Make it about me - you must not love me, all you think about is sex! Not true, but when you ain't getting any...

And apparently, it's not uncommon for a man to act like a "tiger" when he is trying to win you only to switch over to monk mode when he has you. That pendulum, unfortunately, can swing both ways.

What I get sick and tired of is my husband telling me that SEX is not even on his radar while he is trying to recover from his brain injury - well, you know what, if its not on his RADAR, then why the constant porn? And why the constant porn if he's not masturbating to it - very confusing for me...


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## princessaqua (Jan 11, 2011)

Deejo said:


> You're not gong to find many, if any, husbands with low libidos on these boards.
> 
> Nobody likes to feel like they are being coerced into anything. Is your husband attracted to you? Has your physical appearance changed a great deal since you were dating or got married?
> 
> Attraction is a HUGE deal.


That's what I'm wondering what happen to his attraction to me. It just is gone...I haven't changed a lot, in fact, I look younger than I am (38 y-o, people said I look like I'm still 20-ish). I'm slim n petite. And no, I'm not ugly .
I still get admiring look from men in street. Sighhhhh.....but the one that I hope to admire me most prefer dozing off rather touch his wife. 

I try to change my hairstyle...take care better of myself...talk sweetly...nothing so far. 
....it's only been 3 mos since we stopped doing it, but I don't want this becoming years n years.....


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

princessaqua said:


> That's what I'm wondering what happen to his attraction to me. It just is gone...I haven't changed a lot, in fact, I look younger than I am (38 y-o, people said I look like I'm still 20-ish). I'm slim n petite. And no, I'm not ugly .
> I still get admiring look from men in street. Sighhhhh.....but the one that I hope to admire me most prefer dozing off rather touch his wife.
> 
> I try to change my hairstyle...take care better of myself...talk sweetly...nothing so far.
> ....it's only been 3 mos since we stopped doing it, but I don't want this becoming years n years.....


That's a puzzle to me. It's always easy to look at someone else and say, "Oh, if I had her I'd make love every night and never let her go," but for the person who has you, it's often a different story. It sound like you are trying hard and it sounds like you are an attractive woman, so I don't know what his problem could be.

I had a similar issue with my wife. I had been married 18 years, and I can honestly say, my heart didn't beat any slower for her after 18 years than it did when we first married, and I told her so, but it didn't seem to matter to her. I'm like you, I hadn't changed that much physically.


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## Sierra61 (Feb 22, 2010)

"But at 15 years of trying I'm at the point where I'm ready to give up. I feel like I'm trapped in a slow death at this point. All I want is for a man who wants me as well."

I've posted this here before, but it's worth repeating. I was married to a low testosterone man for many years and he had virtually no libido. Finally, two years ago, he got on testosterone shots. His testostereone level went from 213 to 1015 and the difference in libido is night and day.

If you have a husband who has no sex drive, I can almost guarantee you it's because he has a medical issue, unless there are anger issues in your marriage, huge weight gain or something like that. Have him get a blood test! Why wait any longer?


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Sierra61 said:


> "But at 15 years of trying I'm at the point where I'm ready to give up. I feel like I'm trapped in a slow death at this point. All I want is for a man who wants me as well."
> 
> I've posted this here before, but it's worth repeating. I was married to a low testosterone man for many years and he had virtually no libido. Finally, two years ago, he got on testosterone shots. His testostereone level went from 213 to 1015 and the difference in libido is night and day.
> 
> If you have a husband who has no sex drive, I can almost guarantee you it's because he has a medical issue, unless there are anger issues in your marriage, huge weight gain or something like that. Have him get a blood test! Why wait any longer?


He has had a blood test and the doctor said his results were normal.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sailorgirl said:


> He has had a blood test and the doctor said his results were normal.


Doctors throw around the "normal" range very easily but it may not be at all "normal" for him. This seems to happen quite often with Doctors, caring more about Numbers than physical symptoms. 
Did You ever get his accual results ? IF he is inbetween 250ish - 500 levels, he is in a GRAY AREA testosterone wise where some doctors WILL Treat him, if he has other symptoms that is hampering his life. Read more on this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/19213-dealing-low-testosterone-hypogonadism.html


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

A comedian said it the best (it's amazing how comedians often have the best insight into human nature).

My wife once complained that all you married me for was sex. That's all you think marriage is about.

He retorted, "No, I didn't marry just for sex just like I didn't buy this house for just the bathrooms. You take them away though and I'd be pretty peeved off."

I have advised to make your point, lock all the bathrooms in your house after a two hour drive. Have your spouse get home (take a leak in the bushes), and then let her go around to all the doors that are locked.

Then ask her how she feels?

Frustrated? Tense? Getting angry now? Doing the potty dance? Going crazy? What? YOu are thinking about using extradomicile bathroom? Well, that's against Church rules. YOu are supposed to just sit there with your legs crossed for eternity.

Oh, wait. . .you need all of the chores done, laundry folded and the kids in bed and homework done before you can use the bathroom? You need to feel "completed" ala Jerry Maguire?

Yup. . .that's how I feel when I'm not getting sex.

It's very hard often to get the point across to asexual spouses.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Doctors throw around the "normal" range very easily but it may not be at all "normal" for him. This seems to happen quite often with Doctors, caring more about Numbers than physical symptoms.
> Did You ever get his accual results ? IF he is inbetween 250ish - 500 levels, he is in a GRAY AREA testosterone wise where some doctors WILL Treat him, if he has other symptoms that is hampering his life. Read more on this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/19213-dealing-low-testosterone-hypogonadism.html


His number was 700.


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## princessaqua (Jan 11, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> A comedian said it the best (it's amazing how comedians often have the best insight into human nature).
> 
> My wife once complained that all you married me for was sex. That's all you think marriage is about.
> 
> ...


Ha3, I like how you put it into words :smthumbup:
I have an urge to ask my H to read this. LOL


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## sharonbaker (Feb 8, 2011)

Hello all viewers...

I agreed with you all. Sex is must for close relationship with our partner. It is very nice part of our life...


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## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

Pandakiss said:


> i think sex is very important in marriage. my mother in law asked me about it...and i said, as your daughter in law..the other woman who married your son...only the 2 times to have kids..wife to wife...4/5 times a week.
> 
> she said oh..and we never talked about it again...lol. i agree when we women have kids, its hard to turn off mommy and back into vixen. to me its part of being a woman.
> 
> ...


Your explanation above actually brought tears to me. That is such an awesome explanation and yet, kinda of sad. 

I agree sex is a very important part of marriage, I believe it and yet, I'm the one who could care less about it. I've gone through all the blood work for premenapause, thyroid, etc., and nothing. I self diagnosis as mental. For me, once the body changed with age and kids, so did my drive. Once sex slows down, stops, etc., it creates more issues and bigger problems and then it becomes even more than just sex. It's a vicious cycle.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

southbound said:


> Your experience sounds similar to mine up to the point of a talk helping things. My wife never changed. Like your wife, she had friends who didn't think sex was important, and she had a sister who had sex once every 4 or 5 months because she needed the "companionship" more than sex. In her mind, that helped justify her lack of drive.:scratchhead:
> 
> My wife acted as though sex was more "dirty" than other needs. For example, if she needed roses on Valentine's day and back scratches after a hard day's work to be happy, somehow, that was more "normal" to her than needing sex to feel loved and happy.


My wife has a low drive as well, and sometimes will bring up examples of her sisters, aunts and stuff she's read on the internet about how normal our situation is. I tell her I know that's normal, but doesn't make me feel better, and it doesn't make it right because _its normal_.
To her credit, she does make an effort for me, and we generally have sex about once every ten days, its not my ideal for me, but I know she tries for my sake.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It's normal for a flower vase to go without sex, too. I'm not one and I didn't sign up to marry a flower vase. Being someone's "mate" implies some mating will be taking place. If you aren't attracted to your spouse, fix them, fix you, or get out. Staying married to someone but denying them sex is just selfish, cruel, and for all practical purposes, a fraud.


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## aalina387 (Feb 8, 2011)

i think its very important in your marriage life.But you should care her feelings and her emotions.i think you are also right at your side.


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## 62shelby (Feb 11, 2011)

My husband and I are in our late forties. ideally I would like sex at least twice a week. I dont think thats a lot. I want the connection and I love sex. We have only been married for a year or so, but when I moved here I wasnt well, so he assumed I didnt want to do it much, which is crap because I complained about the lack of sex. then he had a kidney stone op. in August, and has some nerve damage and so now has little control over when he ejaculates and then if he tries to stop he goes soft. I havent had an orgasm with him during sex since October or so. We still have sex, maybe 3 or 4 times a month, but its frustrating because he gets me worked up then.......nothing. to make matters worse, at least half of the time when I am out of the house and he is alone, he jerks off to his Penthouse Letters. Its very hurtful. I mean if I didnt want sex, I would understand. We had a conversation about it, and he denied it point blank. He stopped for a while but then he started up again. It doesnt happen that often, but I just hate that fact that he looks at and uses those stories, lusting after someone else. Here I am, I am in great shape, good looking, take care of myself, but he makes me feel invisible. There is very little affection, and the only he time he kisses me passionately on the mouth is when he wants to have sex with me. I dont bother initiating anymore because it never goes well for me. he was married before this, and his ex wife ended up sleeping in another room and then they split up. He has spent a lot of time alone in his life, and I think personally that his use of porn has disfigured his outlook on what sex in a relationship should be like. He hasnt said, but when I ask him point blank what it means to him, he just says its different for women, which to me means that its just a release for him, in fact when his plumbing was working ok and I actually got to orgasm he would ask me if I felt better. He has intimacy issues I realize. We were going to counselling almost straight after I moved here after we got married, for almost a year, but I stopped it as we werent getting anywhere and seemed to be making it worse. we were working on a John Gottman book, but that has stopped as it was causing arguments. I have had to withdraw emotionally as I am tired of putting myself out there and him not meeting me. It just hurtful. we had dated about four years ago, but after four months I decided to split up with him because of his behaviour. A year later he was begging me to take him back, and I really wasnt interested, but he persisted for about six months, and I was very clear about why I had split up with him and what I wanted from a relationship. He at that point agreed and said he wanted the same things and how stupid he had been to let me go, blah blah blah. I realize it was all blah blah. When I have called him out on it, he says that he wants to make the changes but I should be patient. I am not the most patient person in the world but I am really questioning whether I made a HUGE mistake. Any men out there that can give me some insight? I feel invisible, unattractive, unappreciated. I never thought I would be in this situation.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

62shelby said:


> My husband and I are in our late forties. ideally I would like sex at least twice a week. I dont think thats a lot ... Any men out there that can give me some insight? I feel invisible, unattractive, unappreciated. I never thought I would be in this situation.


The issue with porn here is not that he prefers other women. Really, it isn't. It is all about the lack of pressure. You already complained about how he doesn't fullfill your needs in bed. Now, imagine if he complained to you about being frigid. It would put an enormous amount of pressure on you => you would perform even less.

So then he turns to porn. It doesn't matten when he comes there, how hard he is, nobody will judge him. He could be fantasizing about you, but in his head you won't tell him that you are dissapointed. 

This is the problem with men. Too often they link their manhood with well, their manhood. They feel inadequate when they can't get it up or come too soon. This also makes him withdraw. How to fix this is complicated, but I would probably start with decreasing the emphasis on penetration by him (maybe a toy) and by still "worshipping" his penis.

Ofcourse, this is not all on you. He needs to want to cooperate, talk about what bothers him, what causes him to withdraw. There could be more and you should be able to talk about what is bothering you as well.

Again, just a newbie here, but it's just my opnion on the matter.


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## 62shelby (Feb 11, 2011)

Draguna said:


> The issue with porn here is not that he prefers other women. Really, it isn't. It is all about the lack of pressure. You already complained about how he doesn't fullfill your needs in bed. Now, imagine if he complained to you about being frigid. It would put an enormous amount of pressure on you => you would perform even less.
> 
> So then he turns to porn. It doesn't matten when he comes there, how hard he is, nobody will judge him. He could be fantasizing about you, but in his head you won't tell him that you are dissapointed.
> 
> ...


Draguna, thanks for your POV, I m also newbie on this forum. The lack of pressure opinion definitely makes some sense. 

I dont say anything anymore, I dont complain, I dont initiate, when it finishes without a happy ending and he tells me that he wants to go again that night and it doesnt happen I just dont say anything anymore. The porn thing really hurts me. But I get what your saying about no judgement, ie in his mind. I just want to have sex with my husband, a lot more than we do, most men complain about their wives not wanting much sex, not wanting to be adventurous etc. I want to do all of that, I dont even mind watching adult movies together, in fact I like it, but not when we only have sex a few times a month. I would love to talk to him about this and have tried. The upshot being yes, he wants to have more sex, then........nothing. only a year or so married, sad sex life, no romance and very little love. at least that is how it feels.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Shelby,
Why can't he get you off some other way? It isn't nice not to get your female partner to the rapture. If he got you there before intercourse you could let him off the hook regarding "how long" he lasts. 




62shelby said:


> Draguna, thanks for your POV, I m also newbie on this forum. The lack of pressure opinion definitely makes some sense.
> 
> I dont say anything anymore, I dont complain, I dont initiate, when it finishes without a happy ending and he tells me that he wants to go again that night and it doesnt happen I just dont say anything anymore. The porn thing really hurts me. But I get what your saying about no judgement, ie in his mind. I just want to have sex with my husband, a lot more than we do, most men complain about their wives not wanting much sex, not wanting to be adventurous etc. I want to do all of that, I dont even mind watching adult movies together, in fact I like it, but not when we only have sex a few times a month. I would love to talk to him about this and have tried. The upshot being yes, he wants to have more sex, then........nothing. only a year or so married, sad sex life, no romance and very little love. at least that is how it feels.


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## 62shelby (Feb 11, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Shelby,
> Why can't he get you off some other way? It isn't nice not to get your female partner to the rapture. If he got you there before intercourse you could let him off the hook regarding "how long" he lasts.


MEM11363, thats exactly what I want to know, it doesnt even occur to him, if its over for him, then its 'over' for me. My needs in that regard used to be most important, not anymore. I dont even bother suggesting it. I am thinking of leaving to be honest. Its not just about the sex, but thats a big part of it, its the lack of interest in my emotional and sexual needs being met, amongst other things.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Totally get that. I have an LD W who loves me enough to make sure I am really happy in bed. Here is my take on this stuff.

- When your partner feels lust - that is flattering but the fact they have sex with you when they are "hot" means nothing more than they are feeling lust
- When your partner feels neutral - and lets you get them in the mood - that is a show of commitment, love and concern for your feelings
- When your partner really isn't in the mood but realizes it has been a while and you are feeling bad/rejected and they step up and do it just because they really truly love you - that is a GIANT show of love/commitment

As for him not getting you off first - WTF - that is teenage boy type behavior. 






62shelby said:


> MEM11363, thats exactly what I want to know, it doesnt even occur to him, if its over for him, then its 'over' for me. My needs in that regard used to be most important, not anymore. I dont even bother suggesting it. I am thinking of leaving to be honest. Its not just about the sex, but thats a big part of it, its the lack of interest in my emotional and sexual needs being met, amongst other things.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> As for him not getting you off first - WTF - that is teenage boy type behavior.


You know, I thought it was Shelby who didn't ask for that stuff. I guess that yes, it is inconsiderate of him to not think of your feelings.

Come on, as long as you have a tongue, a hand or something that can hold a toy... you should get your wife off.


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## 62shelby (Feb 11, 2011)

Oh good, so its not just my imagination. Other humans think the same thing as me too . MEM your take really sums things up well. It has occurred to me recently that the only time he approaches me is when he already has a hard on. I dont think it occurs to HIM that starting without one is an option KWIM? And yes I agree, especially now he has trouble controlling it, I think I should be taken care of first.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Shelby,
I remember one day waking up and realizing something that made me feel deeply ashamed. During the first half of my marriage sex was something I did "to" my W. Yes - of course I tried to get her to the rapture each time. But that was more driven by my male ego self image of being competent/good in bed. At about the 10 year point (deep sigh - imagine how a decade of remorse feels), I somehow grew up and sex became something I did "with" my W. Still is. Giant difference for me and I think also for her. 

I think you need to at least try to get some of this through his thick skull before you ditch him. If you leave him without doing that he will likely think it is all about his lack of erectile stamina. Instead this seems like a giant case of selfishness and immaturity. 




62shelby said:


> Oh good, so its not just my imagination. Other humans think the same thing as me too . MEM your take really sums things up well. It has occurred to me recently that the only time he approaches me is when he already has a hard on. I dont think it occurs to HIM that starting without one is an option KWIM? And yes I agree, especially now he has trouble controlling it, I think I should be taken care of first.


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## 62shelby (Feb 11, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Shelby,
> I remember one day waking up and realizing something that made me feel deeply ashamed. During the first half of my marriage sex was something I did "to" my W. Yes - of course I tried to get her to the rapture each time. But that was more driven by my male ego self image of being competent/good in bed. At about the 10 year point (deep sigh - imagine how a decade of remorse feels), I somehow grew up and sex became something I did "with" my W. Still is. Giant difference for me and I think also for her.
> 
> I think you need to at least try to get some of this through his thick skull before you ditch him. If you leave him without doing that he will likely think it is all about his lack of erectile stamina. Instead this seems like a giant case of selfishness and immaturity.


MEM how fortunate for your wife you had that epiphany, I bet you both felt a deepening of intimacy at that point. 

I agree about trying to get it through his thick head, I dont want it to be an ultimatum but I dont see it being any other way since I have tried to increase intimacy between us and failed. 

In my mind I think about revenge in the form of cyber sex or chatting or whatever you call it, wonder how he would feel about that. Yeah I am feeling pretty resentful.


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## cressfromhell (Nov 19, 2008)

I am replying only after readin 1 paragraph. I thougt I was typing this ish myelf. Where was this sight before I got married?


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## IH8theFriendZone (Mar 14, 2011)

Longtime Husband said:


> This is a great thread.
> 
> For the first 20 years of my marriage, my wife minimized my need for sex as petty, childish & immature. I have to say that she kinda had me mostly convinced that she was right for much of the time. Then, just over a year ago, I got sort of fed up with the situation & had what ended up being a very interesting, marriage changing discussion with her....even though it became a very pointed, maybe even slightly ugly at the time.
> 
> ...


LH your situation sounds like it could be mine in the making except I've only been married just shy of 10 years. We're on a little bit of a sexual upswing right now, but if it settles back to where it was and she continues to give me the attitude that I'm the one who's in the wrong or weird for wanting sex, then I will refuse to budge. If she refuses to acknowledge my need for sexual intimacy as legitimate, I'm going to do the same thing as you...very unemotionally, and with minimal verbalization, move out. Move out of the room at least, to the spare bedroom maybe for a week to test the waters, and if she doesn't budge (she's extremely stubborn), then one day she wakes up and I'm just gone.
I'm sick of being treated like a leper for wanting something that is a normal part of attraction and that every professional on the planet can prove is not only a healthy part of a long term relationship, but also just plain healthy!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I must be missing something. You weren't having sex. You started sleeping in another room of your house and after 2 more days of not having sex, you started having sex? What else did you do to your wife? Board up the bedroom and stop feeding her?


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

Sometimes I wonder if we're just not meant to be monogamous? Seems like BOTH people maintaining sexual desire for the other and matching libido levels is quite a feat.


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## married&lovingit (Jan 26, 2011)

MsLady said:


> Sometimes I wonder if we're just not meant to be monogamous? Seems like BOTH people maintaining sexual desire for the other and matching libido levels is quite a feat.


It is.... But it is worth it... 

It always hasn't been a bed of roses. But we finally broke through our communication barrier. Wife and I now better understand the role sex and intimacy play in a 'happy' marriage. We credit TAM / MarriedManSexLife / Marriage Builders for showing us a better way.

In the end, it's worth every bit of effort we put into it.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Deejo said:


> It's a deflection mechanism. It's denial.
> 
> By making the problem about you, they don't have to look at themselves. And if you're a 'Nice Guy' you grudgingly allow them to make it about you ... to the point that you begin to wonder if they are right and you are a weirdo.
> 
> ...


Reading this, it can so easily be adjusted and translates easily into the problem I am currently dealing with- lack of affection. OH has deflected, tried to make it into MY problem ("you're so needy/neurotic/who else is like that when they've been together for a while?) and made me contemplate that he might actually be right.

He used to be affectionate... Apparently he doesn't have to make the effort now he "has" me.

I have made the effort to meet his needs, to look good every day- which many, MANY other people have commented on, saying they can't believe how good I look with our baby till being so young- and we have a good sex life, yet he is still reluctant- resistant actually- to show me any affection. I am at a loss as to what I can do now.

Ironically, like sex, the sort of affection I want, he would be most unhappy about if I went and got it from someone else yet I am supposed to accept that it "doesn't come naturally" for him (well it sure seemed to when we first got together) and he could "live without it." I can just picture his reaction if I came out with that about us two not having sex any more- he'd be furious, and rightly so. Although the other way around it is completely acceptable apparently


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