# I'm positive I became an EA victim today. Help



## Greg40

I wrote out a very long explanation of whats going on....then deleted it. It really was long.

I hope the question can be answered without War and Peace but I'm happy to give whatever info.



Anyway. I'm 99% positive that my wife is having an EA. Shes 37, I'm 40 - no kids, 8 years together.


Her online phone statments, which I have never previously checked, seems to have one number with heavy calls and texts. 

1500 call minutes last month, 2000 texts. This number only appeared 6 weeks ago. They are at odd times, when I'm not in the office, late at night, when I'm out, when she's out.


She is currently away at a relatives wedding on her own (I had to stay back).


From what I can see, the person lives in Cali, the wedding is on the east coast.

The texts and phonecalls are still going on. Which I feel would be unlikely if they had orchestrated a meet up. So chances are 99% they are not together and its still an EA

The wedding is today and after that, she has 4 more days at her parents (also on the east coast) and to catch up with her school friends. And if she wanted to I suppose,to have made plans already to meet this person.


Naturally, id prefer to prevent that possibility. It hasn't happened yet I'm 99% sure. An EA I can probably rescue with the advice I've found on this forum.......PA is divorce.


I did snoop a bit. I didn't like what I found.



1)Giant itemised phone bill with a around 4000 text/phone contacts with the same number over the last 6 weeks - still ongoing....even as we speak 

2)We work online, her social media usage has increased considerably recently....always posting photos, tweeting, FB etc.

3)The purchase of a see-thru neglige the day before the trip. She knows I'm not going to be there, she always sleeps nude, so why would you need see thru lingerie your hotel room? Pics and phone video possibly, meet up also possibly.


4)It was also her suggestion that I stay back home. 

I agreed because I hate flying and we have so much time sensitive things to do at home (re-fi this week, two major house repairs) - that it seemed a good idea that I wait behind, deal with all the house stuff, save on pet boarding fee's and to not fly (which I dislike)



So, confront now or not ? 

If I confront her....not good that it's by phone. But I might just prevent a physical meet if thats on the cards. 

I can also at least initially do something about the EA via the advice on this forum.



......Or wait till she gets back this Thursday and possibly have my nightmares come true.







I love my wife, I feel our marriage is 90% good. I don't believe she would rate it as high, she's unhappy that we work so much, that I'm not very demonstrative of my feelings and I could be more thoughtful regarding special occaisons. she's found an online person to share A LOT of flirty time with, that judging by the crazy call volumes etct "might" just be going further.

I should know, we got together under almost identical circumstances 8 years ago. 

weirdly, we've made a lot of future plans recently, some are expensive. 




Help me people


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Sorry to break it to you but I'm having deja vu here, and it may be physical. There is another recent thread (yesterday?) of this near exact same scenario.

I feel that if you should hit this hard the first time around and c0ck block as much as you can. You have to gather all evidence, and do not allow her to gaslight you or minimize this EA/ possible PA. MAKE her cease contact at all costs with this person, NO FB, no secret email, no work phone activity. If she refuses you have to stop being nice, pull the 180 to make her realize she has done wrong and you know it, she needs to come back. You still have plenty of time in the dating timeline and you have no kids, you might not need much evidence to leave her.

If you wish to gather more evidence you have to follow her tracks because she may go underground with this affair. You have to turn into a private investigator, and the best private investigator is the BS. Install a little VAR in her car, almost every WS talks while driving or while in the car. Install a keylogger on home desktop or laptop (illegal to do so on computers that do not belong to you or your wife i.e. work computers) so you can gather her passwords.

If you need a R then you need to confront this, it all depends on your demeanor to her actions, if you do not allow her to down play and make her realize her actions WERE wrong and she needs to be remorseful or else, you'll end up rugsweeping this and you'll be having yourself a simple relationship of lies. Decide how much evidence do you need to confront, to R, to D, its all up to you. There are plenty more people with better advice out here.


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## donders

Greg40 said:


> The texts and phonecalls are still going on. Which I feel would be unlikely if they had orchestrated a meet up. So chances are 99% they are not together and its still an EA


Its more likely the texts and phonecalls would go on and even increase in anticipation of a meetup.


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## aeg512

If you intend to try to save the M my vote would be to say something now before there would be a chance for it to go further. Apparently you have access to the phone account so you know the calls and text are still ongoing. You could just call your W and advise that you have a lot of uneasy feelings and that you will need to have a sit down talk when she makes it home. Do not let her know what information you have at hand. To me the number of calls and text is sufficient. This will make her wonder, you also could tell her that you hope she does not do something stupid but do not go any further. Just need doubt in her mind as to what you do know and wait until she gets back home. If the phone calls and text stops give her another call and ask what she is doing.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Again, welcome to the boards.

Take some time to read the threads around here.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/53144-do-i-give-him-opportunity-cheat.html


This one is the story that sounds like yours. I also recommend bff's thread, to relate on how much evidence you need to leave if she doesn't change her ways. Most waywards are stuck in an addiction, living a dopamine fantasy full of novelty, unicorns and giant sized candy canes and lollipops. Either you go by smashing that fantasy to pieces bringing that WS back to reality and killing the addiction by being on top of the WS remorseful self to prevent a relapse and possible reach R or you just expose the affair and serve her (which can also help to bring them to reality, most of them do not change, serial cheaters/cake eaters).


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## SomedayDig

Sorry you're going through this, Greg. You need to act quickly on this, man. 

Your "snooping"...which I prefer to think of as fact finding shows nothing but red flags. 4000 text/calls?!! In 6 weeks?!! That's like a hundred a day! Do you have any idea who the person could be?

The see-thru nightie is another biggie. Nothing else to say about that, but then the whole suggestion that you stay home cuz you don't like to fly.

I don't want to create innuendo or scare you, man...but even if the OP's number is a Cali number, that doesn't mean the number is any different on the east coast. The OP could very well have taken a summer vacation to the east coast and they're just setting stuff up for a possible PA.

My suggestion is to call her. Tell her what you've found...including the info about the nightie. Let her know that in no uncertain terms what your position on this is.

Then...listen. Don't say a word. As hard as it is, do NOT talk immediately after questioning her. The art of negotiation says "whoever talks next loses". I'm not saying this is a game or a negotiation, however the rule still applies. SHE needs to talk.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

aeg512 said:


> If you intend to try to save the M my vote would be to say something now before there would be a chance for it to go further. Apparently you have access to the phone account so you know the calls and text are still ongoing. You could just call your W and advise that you have a lot of uneasy feelings and that you will need to have a sit down talk when she makes it home. Do not let her know what information you have at hand. To me the number of calls and text is sufficient. This will make her wonder, you also could tell her that you hope she does not do something stupid but do not go any further. Just need doubt in her mind as to what you do know and wait until she gets back home. If the phone calls and text stops give her another call and ask what she is doing.


This might blow up in the OP's face. WS always downplay and minimize, they'll gaslight you, get angry go deeper into the wayward fog. Apparently she is already away at a wedding and visiting family, or so she said. Sounds like a cake eater: "Oh stay home for this one honey please" pshh :scratchhead: duhh she going alone to to text and call, this is probably farther along then one may think. You have to remember WS are far ahead of their BS when they tune in to the fact of a possible EA / PA, its never too late though, get ahead, stay several steps ahead. You need to do something like fly out there.


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## aug

Greg40 said:


> I love my wife, I feel our marriage is 90% good. I don't believe she would rate it as high, she's unhappy that we work so much, that I'm not very demonstrative of my feelings and I could be more thoughtful regarding special occaisons. she's found an online person to share A LOT of flirty time with, that judging by the crazy call volumes etct "might" just be going further.
> 
> *I should know, we got together under almost identical circumstances 8 years ago. *



What do you mean by this?

That you both were flirting this heavily 8 years ago? Or, she was married/in relationship with someone else and she texted you this much on the side?


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## aug

Dont confront yet. Make a game plan and find the resolve to execute it.

The game plan should include:
- separation of finances (no joint bank accounts, debts, etc)
- investigative mode like VAR, cams, for example
- background info of the OM, the OMW
- your future without her
- understanding the 180 and letting her go
-etc


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## ReturnOfTheKitty

I don't think you should do something drastic like separating the finances before you know for sure that you're headed for divorce.


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## Greg40

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Sorry to break it to you but I'm having deja vu here, and it may be physical. There is another recent thread (yesterday?) of this near exact same scenario.
> 
> I feel that if you should hit this hard the first time around and c0ck block as much as you can. You have to gather all evidence, and do not allow her to gaslight you or minimize this EA/ possible PA. MAKE her cease contact at all costs with this person, NO FB, no secret email, no work phone activity. If she refuses you have to stop being nice, pull the 180 to make her realize she has done wrong and you know it, she needs to come back. You still have plenty of time in the dating timeline and you have no kids, you might not need much evidence to leave her.
> 
> If you wish to gather more evidence you have to follow her tracks because she may go underground with this affair. You have to turn into a private investigator, and the best private investigator is the BS. Install a little VAR in her car, almost every WS talks while driving or while in the car. Install a keylogger on home desktop or laptop (illegal to do so on computers that do not belong to you or your wife i.e. work computers) so you can gather her passwords.
> 
> If you need a R then you need to confront this, it all depends on your demeanor to her actions, if you do not allow her to down play and make her realize her actions WERE wrong and she needs to be remorseful or else, you'll end up rugsweeping this and you'll be having yourself a simple relationship of lies. Decide how much evidence do you need to confront, to R, to D, its all up to you. There are plenty more people with better advice out here.


It might be physical, the reason I dont think it is just yet:


The wedding she is attending is a relatives. She is staying at the same hotel as many other relatives (her Dad etc) pretty sure she's not stupid enough to risk being caught with a stranger in her hotel room by one of her relatives.

The texts have continued....generally late at night. If they were together, no need to text.

However, the 4 days after, who knows.....maybe he is prepared to travel from west coast to east for a few days.







But yes I def agree.....ask her to explain certain things, tell her to stop now and even though its by phone, it might be a good enough ****block. If not, she's going to have a hard time getting in the house when she gets back.


And agreed on the rest, I saw a lot of people using and or giving advice on the 180 and no contact letter etc . All makes sense to me. I think those will help turn her around from the fog...eventually.



I was worried about the effectiveness of a phone confrontation, I might even try IM so I can collect my thoughts between each sentence. But today, after she's done her weeding reading and left for her parents (didn't want to do it before the reading and spoil the day) I'm going to prep....and fire a first shot. Likely to call his number with a PAYGO I just bought and hang up....just to see who answers and if they answer with their first name.

Thank you for your help


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## Jibril

Let's put it like this - you have literally one day to save your marriage. Ask yourself if you want to save it or not. If you feel her infidelity isn't something you can forgive, call her and tell her you are divorcing her over her affair, and leave it at that. start filing come Monday.*

I suspect that the other man might be an old flame, considering how quickly the affair took off. She knew she was going to the west coast, they connected somehow, and quickly made plans to have some intense, passionate "closure" before resuming their normal lives. She may not be lying when she says she's going to see "old friends"... Let's not kid ourselves. You know as well as I do that she didn't buy the lingerie to sleep in. She's going to wear it for someone.

If you DO want to save the marriage, you can do 2 things. They depend, largely, on how much money you're willing to put into saving the marriage. What's more important? Cash, or you marriage?

If I were you, i would find boarding for the pets NOW, and fly over to meet her at her parents house. Immediately. Tonight. Go into full c0ckblock mode. Call her up and tell her you will be meeting her at her parents home. She will resist. She will tell you not to bother. Tell her you aren't "asking" her. You WILL meet her there. Period. Buy your flight ticket. Man up - airplanes don't bite.

Once everything is in order, print out the text/phone data and the lingerie receipt take it with you, and make a mad dash for the airport. Meet her. Go to her parents house.*

Once there, expose her affair to her family. Don't second guess yourself, just DO IT. If she wants to fly all the way out to the west coast to pursue her affair, you can fly all the way out to divorce her. Show her how motivated you can be when she f*cks with your marriage.*

Tell her parents what you know. Tell them she has been having an intense emotional affair with this man, and she went so far as to buy lingerie for him to fully realize the affair during her stay. Tell them that you will divorce her, and that you will get the paperwork started on Monday. Tell them and her that if she wants to save the marriage, she has until the divorce is finalized to prove she's worth staying married to.*

Then fly home. She can either stay and bulls*t her parents and have her affair, or she can fly back with you and make this marriage work. If she has any respect for you, she'll cut her trip short and fly back with you.

Alternatively, you can do most of this via telephone, and not fly at all. Call her parents FIRST, and tell them exactly the above. Then call her, and tell her the above. Without your physical presence, though, I don't think this will have as much impact (nor will it be as exciting). But it may still get her to sh*t her pants and come right back home. Either way, tell her you know, and if she doesn't fly back immediately to explain herself and work on the marriage, you will not reconcile with her, and the marriage is over.

*Good luck, and I'm sorry you're here._Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Greg40

donders said:


> Its more likely the texts and phonecalls would go on and even increase in anticipation of a meetup.



The texts have increased. Only one phone call all day yesterday. 

About 50 texts in the early Am. 

I wasn't sure what to make of that. Why text and not call ? for sure there was contact and since she's been there, the phone contact has dropped, the text gone up.....trying to be discrete maybe, not overheard by a relative.


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## Chaparral

Did she take the nighty with her?


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## CleanJerkSnatch

aug said:


> Dont confront yet. Make a game plan and find the resolve to execute it.
> 
> The game plan should include:
> - separation of finances (no joint bank accounts, debts, etc)
> - investigative mode like VAR, cams, for example
> - background info of the OM, the OMW
> - your future without her
> - understanding the 180 and letting her go
> -etc


I agree with the not confronting yet, you have to have all your ducks in a row, unless you confront in person now if you hvae a feeling she might cheat on you while out there. Its really hard, you're the best one to know what decision to make because you know her, or thought you know her and you might be able to follow your gut instinct on this one.


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## Greg40

aeg512 said:


> If you intend to try to save the M my vote would be to say something now before there would be a chance for it to go further. Apparently you have access to the phone account so you know the calls and text are still ongoing. You could just call your W and advise that you have a lot of uneasy feelings and that you will need to have a sit down talk when she makes it home. Do not let her know what information you have at hand. To me the number of calls and text is sufficient. This will make her wonder, you also could tell her that you hope she does not do something stupid but do not go any further. Just need doubt in her mind as to what you do know and wait until she gets back home. If the phone calls and text stops give her another call and ask what she is doing.



I'm conflicted about not revealing at least a portion of what I know.


For example.....a few weeks ago when she was explaining that she hasn't been happy recently. We got onto the subject of affairs.

She said "I would tell you, I wouldn't just have an affair I would feel very guilty"....or something to that effect.


Now I could start the exposure converstion like ........"do you remember last week when you said........"

And then ask her......."does that apply to Emotional affairs too" .....and see what she says.


if she starts to crack....all good.......if not......I dont have much choice, I'm going to have to spill it......right ?


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## Chaparral

You might find out the name of OM at spokeo.com


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## lisab0105

blow this out of the water now. Befor you call your wife, call the dude and ask him why he is trying to mess with your marriage. Then call her immediately and tell her you are going to the airport. Tell her parents she is
having an emotional affair. Blow her make believe world apart before she does something she can't take 
back. Wish I had the warning you do before mine physically cheated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> I'm conflicted about not revealing at least a portion of what I know.
> 
> 
> For example.....a few weeks ago when she was explaining that she hasn't been happy recently. We got onto the subject of affairs.
> 
> She said "I would tell you, I wouldn't just have an affair I would feel very guilty"....or something to that effect.
> 
> 
> Now I could start the exposure converstion like ........"do you remember last week when you said........"
> 
> And then ask her......."does that apply to Emotional affairs too" .....and see what she says.
> 
> 
> if she starts to crack....all good.......if not......I dont have much choice, I'm going to have to spill it......right ?


Most people in emotional affairs don't realize they are in one. Are you sure your wife knows what one is.

I would get on the plane. You might beat him there.


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## aug

Jibril said:


> If you DO want to save the marriage, you can do 2 things. They depend, largely, on how much money you're willing to put into saving the marriage. What's more important? Cash, or you marriage?
> 
> If I were you, i would find boarding for the pets NOW, and fly over to meet her at her parents house. Immediately. Tonight. Go into full c0ckblock mode. Call her up and tell her you will be meeting her at her parents home. She will resist. She will tell you not to bother. Tell her you aren't "asking" her. You WILL meet her there. Period. Buy your flight ticket. Man up - airplanes don't bite.


Actually, dont tell her ahead of time you're going to be there. When you get there, grab her phone immediately and start reading through the messages. 

See if the OM show up. Though she may warn him not to once you're there.


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## Chaparral

What kind of phone does she have? does she back it up to itunes?


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## Chaparral

aug said:


> Actually, dont tell her ahead of time you're going to be there. When you get there, grab her phone immediately and start reading through the messages.
> 
> See if the OM show up. Though she may warn him not to once you're there.


I would take her phone and keep it until I had a chance to talk to him.


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## lordmayhem

chapparal said:


> You might find out the name of OM at spokeo.com


:iagree:

Some other good ones I've used are:

Pipl - People Search

Free People Search | People Search | Search For People At PeekYou


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## Greg40

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Again, welcome to the boards.
> 
> Take some time to read the threads around here.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/53144-do-i-give-him-opportunity-cheat.html
> 
> 
> This one is the story that sounds like yours. I also recommend bff's thread, to relate on how much evidence you need to leave if she doesn't change her ways. Most waywards are stuck in an addiction, living a dopamine fantasy full of novelty, unicorns and giant sized candy canes and lollipops. Either you go by smashing that fantasy to pieces bringing that WS back to reality and killing the addiction by being on top of the WS remorseful self to prevent a relapse and possible reach R or you just expose the affair and serve her (which can also help to bring them to reality, most of them do not change, serial cheaters/cake eaters).



Thanks I'll read that thread now.


I agree, she does seem quite addicted to this person right now. He is obviously feeding her the right combination of compliments and BS. 

And I do intend to put a stop to this today and am fairly confident she will do as I say. A tiny part of me also thinks "this is not going to go as you planned" -I hope I'm wrong about that.


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## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> Sorry you're going through this, Greg. You need to act quickly on this, man.
> 
> Your "snooping"...which I prefer to think of as fact finding shows nothing but red flags. 4000 text/calls?!! In 6 weeks?!! That's like a hundred a day! Do you have any idea who the person could be?
> 
> The see-thru nightie is another biggie. Nothing else to say about that, but then the whole suggestion that you stay home cuz you don't like to fly.
> 
> I don't want to create innuendo or scare you, man...but even if the OP's number is a Cali number, that doesn't mean the number is any different on the east coast. The OP could very well have taken a summer vacation to the east coast and they're just setting stuff up for a possible PA.
> 
> My suggestion is to call her. Tell her what you've found...including the info about the nightie. Let her know that in no uncertain terms what your position on this is.
> 
> Then...listen. Don't say a word. As hard as it is, do NOT talk immediately after questioning her. The art of negotiation says "whoever talks next loses". I'm not saying this is a game or a negotiation, however the rule still applies. SHE needs to talk.



I'm with you on that 100%.....thanks so much


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## ReturnOfTheKitty

I'd get on the plane if I were you. They're a lot cheaper than divorce which is what you plan to do if this becomes physical and my guess is, it just might, given the fact that she's away from the main obstacle, namely you.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

lisab0105 said:


> blow this out of the water now. Befor you call your wife, call the dude and ask him why he is trying to mess with your marriage. Then call her immediately and tell her you are going to the airport. Tell her parents she is
> having an emotional affair. Blow her make believe world apart before she does something she can't take
> back. Wish I had the warning you do before mine physically cheated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, don't tell her you are going. If you are going to go just go, keep her in the dark, as you have been kept in the dark. Do not give her the advantage to gaslight to her family about you being a crazy psycho paranoid person etc etc etc etc etc


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Greg40 said:


> Thanks I'll read that thread now.
> 
> 
> I agree, she does seem quite addicted to this person right now. He is obviously feeding her the right combination of compliments and BS.
> 
> And I do intend to put a stop to this today and am fairly confident she will do as I say. *A tiny part of me also thinks "this is not going to go as you planned"* -I hope I'm wrong about that.


This may be your gut feeling, expect it. Remember, this is a strategy play, you need the element of surprise, and if you want to "blow this out of the water" it can only be done with enough evidence to prove an EA in hand and in person, do not give her or her EA pal any time or warning to prepare for this.


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## lordmayhem

But BEFORE you go, go to the store and buy a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR). This is to protect yourself in the event that the confrontation starts getting heated. We've had a member here who had the confrontation at a hotel and the hotel staff called the police and the BH was hauled off to jail. Here are some examples only:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips+-+Voice+Tracer+Digital+Voice+Recorder/2596305.p?id=1218338417967&skuId=2596305

Sony ICDBX112 Digital Voice Recorder, 2GB Digital Voice Recorder, Flash Voice Recorder, Sony Digital Voice Recorder


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## Voiceofreason

What you should do depends on a sliding scale of your need to shut this down now and accept her minimizing and potentially taking this underground vs gathering conclusive evidence and having more peace of mind to avoid the minimizing. You will get tons of advice on very effective evidence gathering here. If you don't get conclusive evidence, you probably won't know if this has been a PA, unless she just fesses up, which can happen.

To confront now, you have many choices, and results may vary:
--you could fly out there and "surprise her" with the phone records, demand to see her phone, and text that number to solicit a response (sounds like something you would see only in a movie)
--you could call and say a number of things, including what you know, that she is to fly home immediately, she is not to call or text that number, she is not to delete any texts or voicemails, she is not to contact the guy in any way, shape or form from this second forward, directly or indirectly, and you will agree to meet her in a marriage counselors office when she gets off the plane to go over the texts and hear her out. If she does not do every one of those things, she will have divorce papers waiting for her when she returns. This is a tough guy approach, but if she gets her back up you could be divorced as a result.
--or you could confront her on the phone with the evidence and hope for the best.

I am not advocating any of these. Just throwing out possibilities and you can consider potential variations of them and consequences that might flow from each.

Me. I would hire a PI located where she is to see what is going on there, and then go into evidence collection mode upon her return.

At the very least, do what you can in reverse directories to see if you can find the identity of the guy she is contacting.

Sorry Man. This sucks.


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## Greg40

aug said:


> What do you mean by this?
> 
> That you both were flirting this heavily 8 years ago? Or, she was married/in relationship with someone else and she texted you this much on the side?


I left this out because it really lengthened the post.

basically, we met online 8 years ago.

Both in unhappy relationships. 


Mine LTR was 15 years. from 17 to 31. Too young for something so serious and it should have ended earlier. i did try when i felt she wasn't for me, she went a little suicidal....I stayed, and stayed....


The wives relationship was only 9 months. Apparently he worked all the time and was neglectful. She was committed to the relationship initially. Moved her whole life 2000 miles to be with him......6 months later, their relationship was getting rocky.


So basically..............we ended up meeting on a web design forum, common interest etc........started talking about how bad our relationships were going - That was 8 years ago.


And it seems that now.......I might be getting a Karma punch or something.


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## lordmayhem

Yup. Hiring a PI, if you can afford it, is one of your best bets.


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## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> Thanks I'll read that thread now.
> 
> 
> I agree, she does seem quite addicted to this person right now. He is obviously feeding her the right combination of compliments and BS.
> 
> And I do intend to put a stop to this today and am fairly confident she will do as I say. A tiny part of me also thinks "this is not going to go as you planned" -I hope I'm wrong about that.


If you call her and confront and she quits calling/texting him, that only means she has quit using the phone she is now using. She can buy a burner phone in a matter of minutes anywhere she is.

Did she take the nighty with her?


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Greg40 said:


> I left this out because it really lengthened the post.
> 
> basically, we met online 8 years ago.
> 
> Both in unhappy relationships.
> 
> 
> Mine LTR was 15 years. from 17 to 31. Too young for something so serious and it should have ended earlier. i did try when i felt she wasn't for me, she went a little suicidal....I stayed, and stayed....
> 
> 
> The wives relationship was only 9 months. Apparently he worked all the time and was neglectful. She was committed to the relationship initially. Moved her whole life 2000 miles to be with him......6 months later, their relationship was getting rocky.
> 
> 
> So basically..............we ended up meeting on a web design forum, common interest etc........started talking about how bad our relationships were going - That was 8 years ago.
> 
> 
> And it seems that now.......I might be getting a Karma punch or something.


Forget karma, its a shotty foundation, you knew how she was before, why do you expect a change now? The high of "love", all the chemicals can make us naive and "blind"


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## ReturnOfTheKitty

chapparal said:


> Did she take the nighty with her?


Please answer, this could suggest that they're planning to go physical if they haven't already


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## lordmayhem

chapparal said:


> If you call her and confront and she quits caliing/texting him, thatonly means she has quit using the phone she is now using. She can buy a burner phone in a matter of minutes anywhere she is.
> 
> Did she take the nighty with her?


:iagree:

Exactly. Seeing her suddenly not calling/texting OM indicates a secret affair phone/burner phone. Its a giant red flag.


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## MattMatt

Greg40 said:


> I left this out because it really lengthened the post.
> 
> basically, we met online 8 years ago.
> 
> Both in unhappy relationships.
> 
> 
> Mine LTR was 15 years. from 17 to 31. Too young for something so serious and it should have ended earlier. i did try when i felt she wasn't for me, she went a little suicidal....I stayed, and stayed....
> 
> 
> The wives relationship was only 9 months. Apparently he worked all the time and was neglectful. She was committed to the relationship initially. Moved her whole life 2000 miles to be with him......6 months later, their relationship was getting rocky.
> 
> 
> So basically..............we ended up meeting on a web design forum, common interest etc........started talking about how bad our relationships were going - That was 8 years ago.
> 
> 
> And it seems that now.......I might be getting a Karma punch or something.


Ouch, mate! I feel your pain. (Been there...)

However, you know what your wife is capable of, so, for her own sake, put a bloody stop to it! Be the man she needs and wants!

Get the Clarke Kent garb off, don your Superman costume and fly to the wedding. Surprise her. Not with the knowledge of the affair -at least, not yet!- surprise her with Champagne and expensive imported Belgian or Swiss chocolates! Woo her!

Good luck mate!:smthumbup:


----------



## donders

Greg40 said:


> She is staying at the same hotel as many other relatives (her Dad etc) pretty sure she's not stupid enough to risk being caught with a stranger in her hotel room by one of her relatives.


Have somebody you trust check on her whereabouts and watch for her to say something like "she's going to visit an old friend in town".

That would be the clincher.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Exactly. Seeing her suddenly not calling/texting OM indicates a secret affair phone/burner phone. Its a giant red flag.


Gone underground, you do not want this parasitic infection causing addiction to burrow deeper. She is in a full blown EA within weeks, addicted, deep in the wayward fog. Time to take measures to destroy candy land and all its fantasies.


----------



## anchorwatch

lisab0105 said:


> blow this out of the water now. Befor you call your wife, call the dude and ask him why he is trying to mess with your marriage. Then call her immediately and tell her you are going to the airport. Tell her parents she is
> having an emotional affair. Blow her make believe world apart before she does something she can't take
> back. Wish I had the warning you do before mine physically cheated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Call her Dad. Call the OM. Call her. On your way to the airport.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

MattMatt said:


> Ouch, mate! I feel your pain. (Been there...)
> 
> However, you know what your wife is capable of, so, for her own sake, put a bloody stop to it! Be the man she needs and wants!
> 
> Get the Clarke Kent garb off, don your Superman costume and fly to the wedding. Surprise her. Not with the knowledge of the affair -at least, not yet!- surprise her with Champagne and expensive imported Belgian or Swiss chocolates! Woo her!
> 
> Good luck mate!:smthumbup:


Then bust out all the evidence later and say "WHAT THE F is up with this" in the most calm, smooth, controlled, serious voice you can muster. Remain in control at all times, of yourself, and of any conversation, don't blurt, always think before you act/speak. 
Do not alert her before you go, this will only allow her time to think of excuses.

Script : 
BS: well why did you bring the lingerie
WS: uh well ummm _______<<<< insert lamest, most ridiculous excuse ever here


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

anchorwatch said:


> Call her Dad. Call the OM. Call her. On your way to the airport.


Why bother? Don't you like crashing big old parties? Surprise is the key mate.


----------



## anchorwatch

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> Why bother? Don't you like crashing big old parties? Surprise is the key mate.


What's the drama for? Put a pin in that Balloon.


----------



## Greg40

aug said:


> Dont confront yet. Make a game plan and find the resolve to execute it.
> 
> The game plan should include:
> - separation of finances (no joint bank accounts, debts, etc)
> - investigative mode like VAR, cams, for example
> - background info of the OM, the OMW
> - your future without her
> - understanding the 180 and letting her go
> -etc






Id love to start on a full plan.





I don't know if I have that long though. 


I feel I have a few days at most for the worst case scenario......that is, he gets on a plane and makes a trip and they go from EA to PA.....thats a Divorce for me, I couldn't stay with a person who cheated on me. 



He might not fly over of course, so in theory I could have longer.......... 

....I really feel that although she is deeply in the flirtatious apects of an EA....and enjoying the attention, enjoying the other person. That she couldn't make the physical leap yet.....but of course, I could be horribly wrong and underestimating how unhappy she is.



I simply just dont think I can wait till she gets back though to try all the tracker stuff.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

anchorwatch said:


> What's the drama for? Put a pin in that Balloon.


No drama at all I assure you, OP can explain it away on how much he missed his missus, but doing the former without conclusive proof save for the texts, the contents of which Greg doesn't know, and you can bet your last penny that they'll be deleted if she gets fair warning, will only make him the "bad guy" if it backfires. Then she'll take it underground.


----------



## Greg40

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> I don't think you should do something drastic like separating the finances before you know for sure that you're headed for divorce.


I'm going to pull some money out of our saving accounts. 

She wont need it while she's away and if I tell her on the phone .....she might be moving it during the conversation.


----------



## Caribbean Man

ReturnOfTheKitty;978748[B said:


> ]I'd get on the plane if I were you. They're a lot cheaper than divorce which is what you plan to do if this becomes physical and my guess is, it just might, given the fact that she's away from the main obstacle, namely you.[/B]


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is the best advice so far........

Jump on that flight to California,

Walk up to her hotel room knock the door and when she opens say,

** with outstretched arms ** " HONEY I'M HERE!!!"

Depending on her reaction, you'll know the truth.

In any event, you will get to make love to her first, in that sheer lingerie she may have bought for the OM......

After the fun,then you can confront her.

Throw her completely off her guard.


----------



## Greg40

Jibril said:


> Let's put it like this - you have literally one day to save your marriage. Ask yourself if you want to save it or not. If you feel her infidelity isn't something you can forgive, call her and tell her you are divorcing her over her affair, and leave it at that. start filing come Monday.*
> 
> I suspect that the other man might be an old flame, considering how quickly the affair took off. She knew she was going to the west coast, they connected somehow, and quickly made plans to have some intense, passionate "closure" before resuming their normal lives. She may not be lying when she says she's going to see "old friends"... Let's not kid ourselves. You know as well as I do that she didn't buy the lingerie to sleep in. She's going to wear it for someone.
> 
> If you DO want to save the marriage, you can do 2 things. They depend, largely, on how much money you're willing to put into saving the marriage. What's more important? Cash, or you marriage?
> 
> If I were you, i would find boarding for the pets NOW, and fly over to meet her at her parents house. Immediately. Tonight. Go into full c0ckblock mode. Call her up and tell her you will be meeting her at her parents home. She will resist. She will tell you not to bother. Tell her you aren't "asking" her. You WILL meet her there. Period. Buy your flight ticket. Man up - airplanes don't bite.
> 
> Once everything is in order, print out the text/phone data and the lingerie receipt take it with you, and make a mad dash for the airport. Meet her. Go to her parents house.*
> 
> Once there, expose her affair to her family. Don't second guess yourself, just DO IT. If she wants to fly all the way out to the west coast to pursue her affair, you can fly all the way out to divorce her. Show her how motivated you can be when she f*cks with your marriage.*
> 
> Tell her parents what you know. Tell them she has been having an intense emotional affair with this man, and she went so far as to buy lingerie for him to fully realize the affair during her stay. Tell them that you will divorce her, and that you will get the paperwork started on Monday. Tell them and her that if she wants to save the marriage, she has until the divorce is finalized to prove she's worth staying married to.*
> 
> Then fly home. She can either stay and bulls*t her parents and have her affair, or she can fly back with you and make this marriage work. If she has any respect for you, she'll cut her trip short and fly back with you.
> 
> Alternatively, you can do most of this via telephone, and not fly at all. Call her parents FIRST, and tell them exactly the above. Then call her, and tell her the above. Without your physical presence, though, I don't think this will have as much impact (nor will it be as exciting). But it may still get her to sh*t her pants and come right back home. Either way, tell her you know, and if she doesn't fly back immediately to explain herself and work on the marriage, you will not reconcile with her, and the marriage is over.
> 
> *Good luck, and I'm sorry you're here._Posted via Mobile Device_



I have to admit, I love the plan. And can see it being somewhat awesome to put into action.


I'm tied here though.....no way of travelling. It's not just pets or the two major house renovations or the re-fi...I also run 18 businesses that we didnt prepare to be left alone because i was staying.


Would you really tell her parents ? I mean, I would sure like them to know at some point but, what on the really slim chance that I've royally screwed up....shouldn't I just accuse her first ?


----------



## MattMatt

Greg40 said:


> Id love to start on a full plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if I have that long though.
> 
> 
> I feel I have a few days at most for the worst case scenario......that is, he gets on a plane and makes a trip and they go from EA to PA.....thats a Divorce for me, I couldn't stay with a person who cheated on me.
> 
> 
> 
> He might not fly over of course, so in theory I could have longer..........
> 
> ....I really feel that although she is deeply in the flirtatious apects of an EA....and enjoying the attention, enjoying the other person. That she couldn't make the physical leap yet.....but of course, I could be horribly wrong and underestimating how unhappy she is.
> 
> 
> 
> I simply just dont think I can wait till she gets back though to try all the tracker stuff.


Yeah, mate, I'd never have been able to get over my wife having a PA. Well, here's some news, that's exactly what I did do. Got over it.

Did I surprise myself? Too bloody right I did, Squire! But it worked out well!

(Sorry! Going a bit too Brit, there. I'll try to remember to use dude instead of mate and whatever the heck the equivalent of "squire" is in America.)


----------



## lisab0105

Greg40 said:


> I have to admit, I love the plan. And can see it being somewhat awesome to put into action.
> 
> 
> I'm tied here though.....no way of travelling. It's not just pets or the two major house renovations or the re-fi...I also run 18 businesses that we didnt prepare to be left alone because i was staying.
> 
> 
> Would you really tell her parents ? I mean, I would sure like them to know at some point but, what on the really slim chance that I've royally screwed up....shouldn't I just accuse her first ?


Since you can't fly..you have to do everything you to kill this now. If you wait, then it will probably be game over. Call the OM first, then call her before he can warn her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

Greg40 said:


> The wedding she is attending is a relatives. She is staying at the same hotel as many other relatives (her Dad etc) pretty sure she's not stupid enough to risk being caught with a stranger in her hotel room by one of her relatives.


Greg, please don't tell me you're this naive. What's to stop her from having the OM over late at night when everyone's asleep? For one thing, your FIL and other relatives are there for a wedding. They won't even be thinking that your wife is cheating, in fact, it's the farthest thing from their minds. 

The ONLY way she would be caught by them would be if she stupidly brought OM over when everyone's awake, AND if she leaves the door to the hotel room unlocked (unlikely) and they walk in on her and OM. Otherwise, they would knock on the door and OM can hide in the closet or bathroom.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> Did she take the nighty with her?


Yes, she took it.

One, she doesn't wear nighties.

Two, Its not a nighty I would like anyway and she does tend to buy what I prefer when she buys lingerie.

Three, She already has a ton of regular and perfectly normal sleep wear if she needs it.


and all the other things I mentioned. 


The only thing that makes me think she bought it even though they didn't have plans to meet up (3000 miles is a long way and quite expensive for a few ****s)

- is so that there is something ranchy and flirty for her to wear in these pics that they keep sending to each other. you know, so she can say "I bought this for you' ....etc etc as they flirt and send pics the whole night.


of course, I do remember reading that if a women has an affiar and it gets physical, some of them do not want to be wearing the same lingerie that they have with their husband.......

so much to consider but it doesn't look good when you look at it that way.


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> I have to admit, I love the plan. And can see it being somewhat awesome to put into action.
> 
> 
> I'm tied here though.....no way of travelling. It's not just pets or the two major house renovations or the re-fi...I also run 18 businesses that we didnt prepare to be left alone because i was staying.
> 
> 
> Would you really tell her parents ? I mean, I would sure like them to know at some point but, what on the really slim chance that I've royally screwed up....shouldn't I just accuse her first ?


She was on the phone 25 hours in one month. The question is, are you already too late, fly there. Unless your marriage isn't worth it or you know its too late.


----------



## lordmayhem

Then all the signs point to it going PA if it isn't already.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> No drama at all I assure you, OP can explain it away on how much he missed his missus, but doing the former without conclusive proof save for the texts, the contents of which Greg doesn't know, and you can bet your last penny that they'll be deleted if she gets fair warning, will only make him the "bad guy" if it backfires. Then she'll take it underground.


Thats right, and what else, is it will be minimized.

Script:

OP: What are all these texts?
WS: Oh just a friend
OP: A friend, I think you're having an EA
WS: What? Don't be ridiculous, he doens't even live here
OP: I think you cheated on me while at the wedding and on vacation
WS: Thats crazy, you're being delusional, he's just a friend, we just say hi to each other and talk about normal stuff like work and goals in our lives
OP: This needs to stop now
WS: You're crazy, conversation over, I will have none of this
OP: Ok sorry, maybe I over reacted
WS Yes you did, you dont trust me
OP: But 4000 texts?
WS Well you know how they add, up umm first hi, then hi then yeah
OP: oh ok, well lets sweep this under the rug then and let by gones be by gones


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> Yes, she took it.
> 
> One, she doesn't wear nighties.
> 
> Two, Its not a nighty I would like anyway and she does tend to buy what I prefer when she buys lingerie.
> 
> Three, She already has a ton of regular and perfectly normal sleep wear if she needs it.
> 
> 
> and all the other things I mentioned.
> 
> 
> The only thing that makes me think she bought it even though they didn't have plans to meet up (3000 miles is a long way and quite expensive for a few ****s)
> 
> - is so that there is something ranchy and flirty for her to wear in these pics that they keep sending to each other. you know, so she can say "I bought this for you' ....etc etc as they flirt and send pics the whole night.
> 
> 
> of course, I do remember reading that if a women has an affiar and it gets physical, some of them do not want to be wearing the same lingerie that they have with their husband.......
> 
> so much to consider but it doesn't look good when you look at it that way.


You don't like nighties. So she doesn't wear them. He likes nighties so now she wears them for him. He may have picked it out. He may already be there waiting for her at a hotel or on
his way.

Did you look up his name?


----------



## Chaparral

The reason everyone here seems to be pushing you is how many times we have seen this. At a certain point there is no turning it around. Right now I would say after looking at so many of these situations, you have about a 30% chance of saving your marriage if you immediately jump on this with both feet. 

Anyone have a better/worse feeling than me?


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> You might find out the name of OM at spokeo.com



It said it found a match, I joined, inside the site, no match. bah


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> It said it found a match, I joined, inside the site, no match. bah


That happens sometimes, its aggravating. For one thing if he is marriedit may be a burner phone. Would you have a lady friend that could call him and sweet talk his name out of him?

Try Lord Mayhems links.


----------



## lordmayhem

chapparal said:


> The reason everyone here seems to be pushing you is how many times we have seen this. At a certain point there is no turning it around. Right now I would say after looking at so many of these situations, you have about a 30% chance of saving your marriage if you immediately jump on this with both feet.
> 
> Anyone have a better/worse feeling than me?


Yes, he has a chance to save his marriage if he can kill the affair. But he has to act quickly and decisively. If it hasn't gone PA, I'd actually say he has a 50/50 chance. His WW was only talking to OM 25 hours in one month, my fWW at the height of her EA, talked to OM for 58 hours in one month. So yes, he has a good chance if he kills the affair and she's truly remorseful.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Greg40 said:


> I have to admit, I love the plan. And can see it being somewhat awesome to put into action.
> 
> 
> I'm tied here though.....no way of travelling. It's not just pets or the two major house renovations or the re-fi...I also run 18 businesses that we didnt prepare to be left alone because i was staying.
> 
> 
> Would you really tell her parents ? I mean, I would sure like them to know at some point but, what on the really slim chance that I've royally screwed up....shouldn't I just accuse her first ?


For goodness sake mate, how much is your marriage worth. Now you're saying can't put your life at pause where you are now and fly over? How much is the marriage worth to you? Divorce if this is how you wish to confront this infidelity.

Get your head out of the sand and do not warn anyone you are going over.


----------



## Greg40

lisab0105 said:


> blow this out of the water now. Befor you call your wife, call the dude and ask him why he is trying to mess with your marriage. Then call her immediately and tell her you are going to the airport. Tell her parents she is
> having an emotional affair. Blow her make believe world apart before she does something she can't take
> back. Wish I had the warning you do before mine physically cheated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm pretty sure calling him before her isn't going to work to my advantage


Her reaction is more important than his to be honest. 

Nothing of consequence happens to him until i find out whether he has a partner - and that depends on how the wife reacts to the accusation and If she wants to work at our marriage. 

She'll either play ball if the circumstances are right (he has a wife or S/O ) Then we can do No contact letters and tell his partner if he has one.


if I talk to him before her, I'm going to be shouting down the phone at the person I have the least influence over.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Greg, there have been many cases of people flying 3000 miles just for a few f***s this one happens to be with a wedding in the same town, kill 2-3 birds with one stone. Jolly good my friend, jolly good. Spend enough time reading on here and you'll realize how naive you were at the start, just like most people who are too afraid to move and act because they afraid to discover and confront what their gut ALREADY knows!


----------



## Jibril

Greg40 said:


> I have to admit, I love the plan. And can see it being somewhat awesome to put into action.
> 
> I'm tied here though.....no way of travelling. It's not just pets or the two major house renovations or the re-fi...I also run 18 businesses that we didnt prepare to be left alone because i was staying.
> 
> Would you really tell her parents ? I mean, I would sure like them to know at some point but, what on the really slim chance that I've royally screwed up....shouldn't I just accuse her first ?


She. Is. Going. To . F*ck. Another. Man. 
And, on the off chance that they only Skype-sex and he doesnt show up, ask yourself: "Is that really any better?"
She is DEEP in an emotional affair. You said in you initial post that she will spend a few extra days visiting old friends. But how do you KNOW? Will you take that risk?
The bottom line is, she's having an affair, anyway. Even if they haven't had a physical relationship, they are involved with one another in a way that is deceitful, and inappropriate. She is LYING to you about her communications with the other man. She hasn't been honest and upfront. She already claims she is unhappy with the marriage. She is invested emotionally in the other man. She is cheating. 

So yes. I would absolutely, positively tell her family, and smash this affair to pieces before it gets any worse. It needs to come crashing down, and the best way to destroy a secret affair is to make it public. Tell her family she is cheating. Yes, right now. Yes, right on the eve of a wedding. 

It's somewhat ironic, isn't it, that she chooses a wedding to pursue her infidelity.

Expose the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> Most people in emotional affairs don't realize they are in one. Are you sure your wife knows what one is.
> 
> I would get on the plane. You might beat him there.


She knows what an emotional affair is....thats why its disappointing to suddenly find this out.


I'm going to consider the plane thing. I really am....Ive got so little time to organize the mountain of **** here to pull it off though. 

I might be stuck with the phone option


----------



## Greg40

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> This may be your gut feeling, expect it. Remember, this is a strategy play, you need the element of surprise, and if you want to "blow this out of the water" it can only be done with enough evidence to prove an EA in hand and in person, do not give her or her EA pal any time or warning to prepare for this.


Agreed, i need her to have no options on the phone apart from to tell the truth.

Luckily, there isn't much to explain away that phone bill.


----------



## jh52

Greg:

You have to decide if infidelity (EA and PA) will be the end of your marriage. If the answer is yes -- contact a lawyer ASAP and learn your rights. You know for a fact she is having an EA and from the looks of things about 100% that it will be a PA tonight or within the next week (if not already).

BTW -- how has you sex life been with her in the last couple of months ??

Read BFF's thread on here -- he was one of the most decisive and strongest posters here on TAM.

Good luck.


----------



## Greg40

lordmayhem said:


> Yup. Hiring a PI, if you can afford it, is one of your best bets.


I guess I could hire one for between now and Thursday when she flies back.


I'm not sure it would help though. He would say...."yeah she got boned" which leaves me with the Divorce option.

Or he'll say, she went out with her friends, parents etc, just like she said she would.

The text, phone calls and a developing EA would still be happening regardless.


----------



## Entropy3000

Greg40 said:


> I wrote out a very long explanation of whats going on....then deleted it. It really was long.
> 
> I hope the question can be answered without War and Peace but I'm happy to give whatever info.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway. I'm 99% positive that my wife is having an EA. Shes 37, I'm 40 - no kids, 8 years together.
> 
> 
> Her online phone statments, which I have never previously checked, seems to have one number with heavy calls and texts.
> 
> 1500 call minutes last month, 2000 texts. This number only appeared 6 weeks ago. They are at odd times, when I'm not in the office, late at night, when I'm out, when she's out.
> 
> 
> She is currently away at a relatives wedding on her own (I had to stay back).
> 
> 
> From what I can see, the person lives in Cali, the wedding is on the east coast.
> 
> The texts and phonecalls are still going on. Which I feel would be unlikely if they had orchestrated a meet up. So chances are 99% they are not together and its still an EA
> 
> The wedding is today and after that, she has 4 more days at her parents (also on the east coast) and to catch up with her school friends. And if she wanted to I suppose,to have made plans already to meet this person.
> 
> 
> Naturally, id prefer to prevent that possibility. It hasn't happened yet I'm 99% sure. An EA I can probably rescue with the advice I've found on this forum.......PA is divorce.
> 
> 
> I did snoop a bit. I didn't like what I found.
> 
> 
> 
> 1)Giant itemised phone bill with a around 4000 text/phone contacts with the same number over the last 6 weeks - still ongoing....even as we speak
> 
> 2)We work online, her social media usage has increased considerably recently....always posting photos, tweeting, FB etc.
> 
> 3)The purchase of a see-thru neglige the day before the trip. She knows I'm not going to be there, she always sleeps nude, so why would you need see thru lingerie your hotel room? Pics and phone video possibly, meet up also possibly.
> 
> 
> 4)It was also her suggestion that I stay back home.
> 
> I agreed because I hate flying and we have so much time sensitive things to do at home (re-fi this week, two major house repairs) - that it seemed a good idea that I wait behind, deal with all the house stuff, save on pet boarding fee's and to not fly (which I dislike)
> 
> 
> 
> So, confront now or not ?
> 
> If I confront her....not good that it's by phone. But I might just prevent a physical meet if thats on the cards.
> 
> I can also at least initially do something about the EA via the advice on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ......Or wait till she gets back this Thursday and possibly have my nightmares come true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love my wife, I feel our marriage is 90% good. I don't believe she would rate it as high, she's unhappy that we work so much, that I'm not very demonstrative of my feelings and I could be more thoughtful regarding special occaisons. she's found an online person to share A LOT of flirty time with, that judging by the crazy call volumes etct "might" just be going further.
> 
> I should know, we got together under almost identical circumstances 8 years ago.
> 
> weirdly, we've made a lot of future plans recently, some are expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Help me people


Completely lame that you did not go. So that is on you.

The see-thru nightie is for someones benefit. Probably an old high school friend. You know it is possible that that Cali phone number is really in the hands of someone on the east coast. Yes they could fly there in hours. But not going to the wedding with your wife was a bad idea period.

Yes likely this is an EA. What do the emails, FB messages and texts say. If you don't know that you are messing up. 

Who are her FB friends? You should know this.

So catch a flight out now. Surprise her.


----------



## SomedayDig

It's 1:30 on the east coast. What time is the wedding?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

History is repeating itself. Karma is about to fcuk your wife and take her from you. And you're going to let it. Businesses are more important. You can always find another wife.

Right?


----------



## Greg40

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> This is the best advice so far........
> 
> Jump on that flight to California,
> 
> Walk up to her hotel room knock the door and when she opens say,
> 
> ** with outstretched arms ** " HONEY I'M HERE!!!"
> 
> Depending on her reaction, you'll know the truth.
> 
> In any event, you will get to make love to her first, in that sheer lingerie she may have bought for the OM......
> 
> After the fun,then you can confront her.
> 
> Throw her completely off her guard.


I do love these surprise plans but they really are beyond what I can do in the time I've got to achieve a good c0ckblock.


He's on the West coast (or his phone says he is), shes at a wedding on the east.

So, athough I suspect he could travel the distance a few things make me think this wont happen.


She does have a all her family and friends on the east coast. We've been at least 10 times. She has things that she have to be done while there.....

Her girlfriends have organized a dinner....Ive seen the emails confirming these things. And one of them has just given birth, so she has to visit there too.

Its also a 6000 mile round trip. Its Sunday and unless this guy has taken days off specially and thinks the expense and short duration they would be together is worth it - it's a reasonable amount to assume would happen based on a negligee.

I dunno, I'm trying to second guess a bit but, i'll know when I speak to her today.


He can't be where she is, its all wedding folk. she then has a 5 hour drive to her parents. I'm hoping to get her during that point, if she fesses, she probably wont think my next move is to call her folks.




man, I haven't slept for 20 hours


----------



## Entropy3000

So if ones marriage was really important to them they would move heaven and earth to be on that plane.
No excuses. The OM is probably going to get some in a few hours if not already. She just goes to his room.

But since this is inconvenient ... there you go. Makes for good TAM drama but not much else unfortunately.


----------



## Greg40

MattMatt said:


> Yeah, mate, I'd never have been able to get over my wife having a PA. Well, here's some news, that's exactly what I did do. Got over it.
> 
> Did I surprise myself? Too bloody right I did, Squire! But it worked out well!
> 
> (Sorry! Going a bit too Brit, there. I'll try to remember to use dude instead of mate and whatever the heck the equivalent of "squire" is in America.)


No need, I'm English.

I emigrated to be with this women.


Squire is all good


----------



## anchorwatch

Greg40 said:


> I do love these surprise plans but they really are beyond what I can do in the time I've got to achieve a good c0ckblock.
> 
> 
> He's on the West coast (or his phone says he is), shes at a wedding on the east.
> 
> So, athough I suspect he could travel the distance a few things make me think this wont happen.
> 
> 
> She does have a all her family and friends on the east coast. We've been at least 10 times. She has things that she have to be done while there.....
> 
> Her girlfriends have organized a dinner....Ive seen the emails confirming these things. And one of them has just given birth, so she has to visit there too.
> 
> Its also a 6000 mile round trip. Its Sunday and unless this guy has taken days off specially and thinks the expense and short duration they would be together is worth it - it's a reasonable amount to assume would happen based on a negligee.
> 
> I dunno, I'm trying to second guess a bit but, i'll know when I speak to her today.
> 
> 
> He can't be where she is, its all wedding folk. she then has a 5 hour drive to her parents. I'm hoping to get her during that point, if she fesses, she probably wont think my next move is to call her folks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> man, I haven't slept for 20 hours


Then call her Dad and get an ally and a set of eyes on the ground where she is, too.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

anchorwatch said:


> Then call her Dad and get an ally and a set of eyes on the ground where she is, too.


Unwise


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Do you think daddy would really believe sonny boy over his precious little petunia? A neutral party, a private investigator, perhaps.


----------



## jh52

Just because the area code on the mobile say's California --- doesn't mean OM doesn't live somewhere else. So him living in CA or being in CA is not a 100% certainty -- unless you get more information (address). Then that only would confirm he lives in CA -- but no one knows where he is today.

BTW -- if the her phone usage changes from her pattern with him (goes down) today/very late tonight or the next week -- my guess would be they are together.


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> It's 1:30 on the east coast. What time is the wedding?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1.30pm

lasts for about 5 hours, 

tomorrow an 11.00 am brunch then a 4 to 5 hour drive in the afternoon to her parents.

I dont think that anything "could happen" while she at the wedding at least. Just too many relatives around.

So I've likely got till about 5 pm East coast on Sunday to get a result by phone or fly out.


----------



## Greg40

jh52 said:


> Just because the area code on the mobile say's California --- doesn't mean OM doesn't live somewhere else. So him living in CA or being in CA is not a 100% certainty -- unless you get more information (address). Then that only would confirm he lives in CA -- but no one knows where he is today.
> 
> BTW -- if the her phone usage changes from her pattern with him (goes down) today/very late tonight or the next week -- my guess would be they are together.


your right about the area code and is phone, he could be anywhere.


The phone usage has stayed the same really, less long calls.....much more texting.


----------



## SomedayDig

jh52 said:


> -- if the her phone usage changes from her pattern with him (goes down) today/very late tonight or the next week -- my guess would be they are together.


Absolutely true. They will only text set up times and later how wonderful it was. Well, that's if he leaves the room...

Sorry Greg, you've gotta make your move now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> For goodness sake mate, how much is your marriage worth. Now you're saying can't put your life at pause where you are now and fly over? How much is the marriage worth to you? Divorce if this is how you wish to confront this infidelity.
> 
> Get your head out of the sand and do not warn anyone you are going over.



I'm trying to make it an option. 

I can see the flying out really would be a horrible shock.

I am also curious as to the effect of telling someone over the phone that I know whats been going on and ultimately they have explain themselves and then either fly back now ot wait 4 days to come back to face me......that's 4 days of worrying and guilt.

I dunno, trying to take it all in and form a 'good" plan on a few hours sleep.


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> Absolutely true. They will only text set up times and later how wonderful it was. Well, that's if he leaves the room...
> 
> Sorry Greg, you've gotta make your move now!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I can't she's in the middle of a wedding doing a reading (or about to)

If I were to fly out now....i could probably get there by 8 pm . If he's there already to late. and we're divorcing anyway.

if he's not. I should be able to get her on the phone after the wedding (in about 4 hours)

A not as effective but ultimately quicker c0ckblock.


----------



## anchorwatch

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> Do you think daddy would really believe sonny boy over his precious little petunia? A neutral party, a private investigator, perhaps.


I don't disagree. As many times as it has been mentioned, the OP has not even voiced consideration of a PI. Dad is a lot quicker than finding and hiring an available PI. Dad's interest would be at least piqued in his little princess's activities.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

You could hire an investigator. Cheaper than the flight, more reliable source of info. You can still act as c0ckblock depending upon the info you keep getting


----------



## lisab0105

I say call him because had I found out who my guy was persuing the week before he went to bed with her, I would have called her and I know for a fact it never would have happened. Sometimes, with the affair partners, once they are forced to see and hear how real you are...they get freaked out. The chick my guy screwed actualy has a guilty concious, thankfully, so it didn't happen more than one night, and that is bad enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> I guess I could hire one for between now and Thursday when she flies back.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure it would help though. He would say...."yeah she got boned" which leaves me with the Divorce option.
> 
> Or he'll say, she went out with her friends, parents etc, just like she said she would.
> 
> The text, phone calls and a developing EA would still be happening regardless.


Also, a PI will not be able to watch her 24/7 unless you have a lot of money... like $350 an hour or so. You would need to know that time and place for the PI to be there.


----------



## SomedayDig

Greg40 said:


> I can't she's in the middle of a wedding doing a reading (or about to)
> 
> If I were to fly out now....i could probably get there by 8 pm . If he's there already to late. and we're divorcing anyway.
> 
> if he's not. I should be able to get her on the phone after the wedding (in about 4 hours)
> 
> A not as effective but ultimately quicker c0ckblock.


You're right, you would never make it in time on a flight. However, you know what time the wedding is and as someone who has performed many wedding ceremonies, I can tell you even the most ornate of ceremonies will NOT last an hour. Even a Catholic one!!

1.5 hours from the beginning of the wedding until you call. THAT is your time frame. She will, more than likely, be on the way to the reception. I think it's pertinent that she NOT be drunk when you call her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> I do love these surprise plans but they really are beyond what I can do in the time I've got to achieve a good c0ckblock.
> 
> 
> He's on the West coast (or his phone says he is), shes at a wedding on the east.
> 
> So, athough I suspect he could travel the distance a few things make me think this wont happen.
> 
> 
> She does have a all her family and friends on the east coast. We've been at least 10 times. She has things that she have to be done while there.....
> 
> Her girlfriends have organized a dinner....Ive seen the emails confirming these things. And one of them has just given birth, so she has to visit there too.
> 
> Its also a 6000 mile round trip. Its Sunday and unless this guy has taken days off specially and thinks the expense and short duration they would be together is worth it - it's a reasonable amount to assume would happen based on a negligee.
> 
> I dunno, I'm trying to second guess a bit but, i'll know when I speak to her today.
> 
> 
> He can't be where she is, its all wedding folk. she then has a 5 hour drive to her parents. I'm hoping to get her during that point, if she fesses, she probably wont think my next move is to call her folks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> man, I haven't slept for 20 hours


The OM (other man) could be an old friend and invited to the wedding. The new pattern of texts could be them txting each other at the same family social events.

However, in my way of thinking, flying there to catch her or stop it is useless. If she planned to cheat physcially she is gone. Just divorce her. Your marriage is over.


----------



## warlock07

Greg40 said:


> 1.30pm
> 
> lasts for about 5 hours,
> 
> tomorrow an 11.00 am brunch then a 4 to 5 hour drive in the afternoon to her parents.
> 
> I dont think that anything "could happen" while she at the wedding at least. Just too many relatives around.
> 
> So I've likely got till about 5 pm East coast on Sunday to get a result by phone or fly out.



There was a poster whose wife tried to f*ck the OM at a friends house which they both attended(Poster was inside enjoying the drinks and the party). So if the OM is a guest at the party, you are f*cked. They might well be sexting while in the same room! To people in affairs, the secrecy will make the sex much hotter!! So you need to act fast!! F*ck the marriage. F*ck the business. The money you will lose will be nothing to the trauma of the affair and the mental images.

How is your relation with your FIL? Is he a stand up guy? You can twist the story to make the OM a stalker or something to have him keep eyes on your daughter.(or make sure that someone always keeps her company)



How do you know the OM is from east coast?(Or where ever he is from)


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

The first time someone cheats is not usually planned out this well (see-thru neglige). Sure, you may prevent something from happening, but chances are, it's already occurred earlier this month. 

I'm sorry this is happening to you, but all you can do now is investigate. Do a reverse look-up on the number to find out who it is. Send a friend to this person's house selling newspapers or something. The guy may have traveled to the east coast too. You can't really confront her because she'll go underground. She'll stop texting on her phone, or worse, get a texting app that doesn't show the number. She'll say he is just a friend and you are overreacting. Then she'll turn it around on you. Here's your likely scenario:

You: Honey, are you having an EA?
Her: What? (while she gathers her thoughts) Why would you say that?

You: I noticed you were acting different and It concerned me so I looked at our phone bill and noticed you've been calling and texting XXX. 
Her: Oh that. He's just a friend from work and he's having marriage issues. He rely's on me for a woman's perspective.

You:He's been texting you like mad though.
Her: I know hun. He's really going through it. 

You: I also noticed you bought a see-thru nelgage. You normally sleep naked.
Her: I just picked something up so I wouldn't have to sleep naked over there. Geez, what's with the 20 questions

You: Sorry but why didn't you tell me about this?
Her: Well, you don't know the guy. i didn't think you'd find it interesting. By the way, why are you checking up on me? Are you doing something wrong? I can't believe this. If you can't trust me then we shouldn't be together. Your such and A&%.

(Dialtone)...

You call back, but no answer. You leave a message, "Sorry honey. I'm just felling a little insecure. I love you."

She text back, "Fine. I love you too." 

Now where were we? (she says to the OM)

Think!

Has she been guarding her phone lately?

Is her phone locked?

Unexplained absences or delays after work?

Can you hack into her FB or email?

something is already going on. Sorry buddy.


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> The OM (other man) could be an old friend and invited to the wedding. The new pattern of texts could be them txting each other at the same family social events.
> 
> However, in my way of thinking, flying there to catch her or stop it is useless. If she planned to cheat physcially she is gone. Just divorce her. Your marriage is over.


Yes. he could even be her escort. She telling folks that her husband could not attend but she was fortunate that her friend could step in.

Anything not involving immediately flying out is total FAIL.


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> You're right, you would never make it in time on a flight. However, you know what time the wedding is and as someone who has performed many wedding ceremonies, I can tell you even the most ornate of ceremonies will NOT last an hour. Even a Catholic one!!
> 
> 1.5 hours from the beginning of the wedding until you call. THAT is your time frame. She will, more than likely, be on the way to the reception. I think it's pertinent that she NOT be drunk when you call her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


from the wedding email - I think the ceremony is about 20 mins. but they've padded a whole bunch of stuff either side.

It will likely end about 7 pm East coast time.

She still has to stay till tomorrows brunch. She won't be getting away from relatives hanging around until at least then.

I was half hoping she would be drunk on the phone call - might be more truthful, more painful for her or maybe it would backfire.

But she's not a drinker though and as unpredictable as a drunk call might be..whatever she was planning on doing over the next few days, continued EA or PA, it wont be inebriated. 

I guess I'll find out in a few hours, she seems to call me right before their two hours of whatever 

I really need some sleep too.....I shouldn't approach this groggy and I'm about to hit 24 hours being awake. 


Weirdly I feel alert. Hard to sleep.


----------



## Entropy3000

BTW. She will spend the night with the OM and skip the brunch.

She will have a headache or say she needed to go home sooner. Bank on it.

Oh and are you sure the nightie is not a gift for the bride?


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> I'm going to pull some money out of our saving accounts.
> 
> She wont need it while she's away and if I tell her on the phone .....she might be moving it during the conversation.


Now you're thinking.


----------



## Machiavelli

Greg, allowing a woman to attend a wedding solo is only slightly better than letting her go to a meatmarket for GNO. Do you have any idea how many married women hook up at out of town weddings? I don't either, but I know it's a lot. They're all in the mood already just because it's a wedding and everybody is dressed up. Where is she on her cycle?

Once the texting stops, you'll know she's up in his room for the party. If it keeps going all night, you're still safe and maybe they're just skyping each other off.

Since the PA is the deal breaker, there's no need for the PI. Can you access her flight itinerary to check for any changes?


----------



## Jibril

EleGirl said:


> The OM (other man) could be an old friend and invited to the wedding. The new pattern of texts could be them txting each other at the same family social events.
> 
> However, in my way of thinking, flying there to catch her or stop it is useless. If she planned to cheat physcially she is gone. Just divorce her. Your marriage is over.


I don't disagree. I suspected from the first post that the other man was an old friend of the family or ex boyfriend. His presence at the wedding would not be surprising in the least. 

However, the OP seems more concerned with keeping this affair from becoming physical at all costs. Despite how heinously premeditated his wife's affair is, I guess he can bounce back so long as she doesn't f*ck the other man. 

If you can't make the trip, then expose the affair. Neither you nor we know if the other man is there, or if they haven't already had sex. We just don't know. I still think you should fly over there and scare her straight, and expose to her family one shot. Unfortunately, you will NEVER know if she had sex with him. She won't ever admit to it, and if you crush the affair now, you'll never really know. 

Do what you think is best. You absolutely MUST expose her affair to her family, regardless. But know this - regardless of whether of not you wife had sex with another man, it seems clear to me that she had a powerful emotional affair and went to the wedding with every INTENTION of cheating. 

Do you really want to stay married to someone like that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Call, confront and create a sh!t storm!!(on the phone). Ask her to catch the next flight home after the wedding. Call and threaten the OM. Just c0ck block somehow until she gets back!!!


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> It said it found a match, I joined, inside the site, no match. bah


Interesting...the guy has a throw-away phone.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Do you have access to her fb and email accounts?


----------



## Sbrown

Call OM from a blocked number. Most people don't answer a blocked number. If he sends it to voice mail and he has a greeting like "Hi youve reached OM leave a message." You get his name. Have a friend do it if you can just in case he answers the phone. Worth a try.

Then call you're WW and ask, "Who is OM and why is his wife calling me saying you two are having an affair?"


----------



## warlock07

Or better, call him from a payphone (as a debt collector)


----------



## kenmoore14217

There have been several options offered here, most of them very good.

Here's another one. Do you have access to two phones. While speaking to your wife on one phone call the OM on the other phone. Listen for a ring in the background during your wife's conversation. 

It's best to follow your intuition in these matters and the negligee situation makes my intuition peak. 

Please keep up posted and good luck.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Sbrown said:


> Then call you're WW and ask, "Who is OM and why is his wife calling me saying you two are having an affair?"


This is where people go wrong, you see, if he were to follow your approach that would give his wife a lot of escape routes that would eventually lead to gaslighting. She would most definitely deny and say that the OMW is a crazy *****.

The thing about cheaters is they will lie through the skin of their teeth to cover their asses. Its a part of the good wife/husband image they are trying to maintain. 

The only way you'd be able to get any where with a confrontation is when you have all the rest of the avenues blocked. And I advocate confronting in person, you can watch their reactions.


----------



## Machiavelli

OP, needs to get on the plane. He can run his internet sh*t through his laptop.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Greg40 said:


> 1.30pm
> 
> lasts for about 5 hours,
> 
> tomorrow an 11.00 am brunch then a 4 to 5 hour drive in the afternoon to her parents.
> 
> *I dont think that anything "could happen" while she at the wedding at least. Just too many relatives around.*
> 
> So I've likely got till about 5 pm East coast on Sunday to get a result by phone or fly out.


Gerg,
You need to stop telling yourself that .
Anything COULD happen , when a woman wants to have sex.
When a woman is in the heat of passion & anticipation , she will move heaven and earth to consummate her passion.
That is why seduction always work better than asking or begging women for sex.

The phone records tells you that the OM is constantly on the phone talking with her. He is seducing her by giving her mental pictures. 
whatever she needs to do to make this happen , she will.

You need to do whatever it takes to stop it.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> your right about the area code and is phone, he could be anywhere.
> 
> 
> The phone usage has stayed the same really, less long calls.....much more texting.


No reason to talk to each other if you're seeing each other later. The texting is due to her being around her folks. She is just letting him know what is going on and that she misses him and that she will meet him somewhere later.


----------



## Sbrown

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> This is where people go wrong, you see, if he were to follow your approach that would give his wife a lot of escape routes that would eventually lead to gaslighting. She would most definitely deny and say that the OMW is a crazy *****.
> 
> The thing about cheaters is they will lie through the skin of their teeth to cover their asses. Its a part of the good wife/husband image they are trying to maintain.
> 
> The only way you'd be able to get any where with a confrontation is when you have all the rest of the avenues blocked. And I advocate confronting in person, you can watch their reactions.


True!

Maybe get his name and call the hotel she is staying at and ask for his room.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

#1, women don't buy lingerie just to sit in a hotel alone. #2, I'd be on a plane by now. No need to make it easy for them. And if it were me, I'd call the cell phone company and temporarily suspend her account so she can't send or receive texts. That way she has no way of warning him that you're there when he shows up. Trust me, he already knows the hotel and room #.

To do anything else is burying your head in the sand.


----------



## sunshinetoday

Hey, when I first found the phone/text records...I thought i didnt need to worry about a PA because the number was from a Texas area code. Little did i know the OW was right in our own town with her cell from TX. If i could go back in time i would have called everyone in her freaking family that minute. And raced to the scene, if I knew where the scene was. You have that advantage...you know where she is and can clue her family in right now. Dont sit back, you are luckier then most betrayed....get out there and start making callsA


----------



## Greg40

Entropy3000 said:


> BTW. She will spend the night with the OM and skip the brunch.
> 
> She will have a headache or say she needed to go home sooner. Bank on it.
> 
> Oh and are you sure the nightie is not a gift for the bride?


Probably, there's already been a fair amount of sneaking going on, no reason to stop now.

I thought it could be for the bride or alternatively for her friend who had a baby a few days ago.

The size is kinda wrong for either of them and it did come in a packet. The packet was left in her bathroom bin.

Why discard the packet, you'd think it would be better to give a gift like lingerie in a packet ? Not as pretty but, at least its in a new packet.

- its one of the only things I'm not 100% sure of but:

it was ordered the day before with next day delivery. She's way more organized than that with gifts. I leave gifts till the last minute, she doesn't lol.

also, 


The Bride had her shower already.

The pregnant friend had just given birth about 4/5 days ago - is there such a thing as a baby shower, I cant remember but, she wouldn't fit this negligee.

It was kinda cheap too. Cheap in a way that if you got married or just had a baby, you'd be kinda insulted ($22). 

Like I said, not 100% sold on why the negligee is there but 95%......the phone bill does it for me though. Negligee, pretty much there too, just a slight doubt.


----------



## keko

Greg, so what's your plan right now?


----------



## lordmayhem

warlock07 said:


> Or better, call him from a payphone (as a debt collector)


This is even better. Call the OM using your wife's phone number. Use this site, the first 5 calls are free. I've done this.

WWW.SPOOFTEL.COM - Caller ID Spoofing - SMS Spoofing made easy - Home Page

You can even call your wife's phone usings OMs phone number to see how she answers it!


----------



## WorkingOnMe

lordmayhem said:


> This is even better. Call the OM using your wife's phone number. Use this site, the first 5 calls are free. I've done this.
> 
> WWW.SPOOFTEL.COM - Caller ID Spoofing - SMS Spoofing made easy - Home Page
> 
> You can even call your wife's phone usings OMs phone number to see how she answers it!


Oh, awsome. Text him "where are you right now?"

Depending on his answer, then text "what time will you get here?"


----------



## Machiavelli

lordmayhem said:


> This is even better. Call the OM using your wife's phone number. Use this site, the first 5 calls are free. I've done this.
> 
> WWW.SPOOFTEL.COM - Caller ID Spoofing - SMS Spoofing made easy - Home Page
> 
> You can even call your wife's phone usings OMs phone number to see how she answers it!


THIS!!!!:lol:

Spoofing is awesome.


----------



## Machiavelli

Greg40 said:


> it was ordered the day before with next day delivery.


That's when it was confirmed that the OM could make it. Game on.


----------



## Chaparral

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> This is where people go wrong, you see, if he were to follow your approach that would give his wife a lot of escape routes that would eventually lead to gaslighting. She would most definitely deny and say that the OMW is a crazy *****.
> 
> The thing about cheaters is they will lie through the skin of their teeth to cover their asses. Its a part of the good wife/husband image they are trying to maintain.
> 
> The only way you'd be able to get any where with a confrontation is when you have all the rest of the avenues blocked. And I advocate confronting in person, you can watch their reactions.


Its said that 80% of good communication is visual. That virtually leaves phoning and texting as an invitation to lie.

She bought a nighty and talked you into staying home, there was a big reason for that and it wasn't so she could send him erotic pictures.


----------



## Chaparral

lordmayhem said:


> This is even better. Call the OM using your wife's phone number. Use this site, the first 5 calls are free. I've done this.
> 
> WWW.SPOOFTEL.COM - Caller ID Spoofing - SMS Spoofing made easy - Home Page
> 
> You can even call your wife's phone usings OMs phone number to see how she answers it!


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........this is the bomb. Cough when she answers and say " where are you?"
Use a hanky and say you just choked.


----------



## Chaparral

WorkingOnMe said:


> Oh, awsome. Text him "where are you right now?"
> 
> Depending on his answer, then text "what time will you get here?"


Oooh this is better. Text your own phone and see how it works.


----------



## Thor

Get out there in persom! You have a rare chance to intervene before it goes pa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> Probably, there's already been a fair amount of sneaking going on, no reason to stop now.
> 
> I thought it could be for the bride or alternatively for her friend who had a baby a few days ago.
> 
> The size is kinda wrong for either of them and it did come in a packet. The packet was left in her bathroom bin.
> 
> Why discard the packet, you'd think it would be better to give a gift like lingerie in a packet ? Not as pretty but, at least its in a new packet.
> 
> - its one of the only things I'm not 100% sure of but:
> 
> it was ordered the day before with next day delivery. She's way more organized than that with gifts. I leave gifts till the last minute, she doesn't lol.
> 
> also,
> 
> 
> The Bride had her shower already.
> 
> The pregnant friend had just given birth about 4/5 days ago - is there such a thing as a baby shower, I cant remember but, she wouldn't fit this negligee.
> 
> It was kinda cheap too. Cheap in a way that if you got married or just had a baby, you'd be kinda insulted ($22).
> 
> Like I said, not 100% sold on why the negligee is there but 95%......the phone bill does it for me though. Negligee, pretty much there too, just a slight doubt.


Man I am so sorry. The writing is...wait...the mural is on the wall. The thing is, you already know it's happening, but you're looking to us for any glimpse of hope that it's not; that there is a possibility that she hasn't messed up yet. You need to place yourself in the worst case scenario right now and ask yourself what you would do. Then do it because you are already there. Sorry buddy, don't call. Investigate.


----------



## keko

Thor said:


> Get out there in persom! You have a rare chance to intervene before it goes pa.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


On the topic of intervening, at one point he needs to ask himself if he has to baby sit this wh0re of a wife till the end of time or find someone else that is trust worthy.


----------



## kenmoore14217

I'm no expert here G four oh, but it's the people who act fast and act decisively that turn out to be the winners. The ones that go into sleuth mode will be sleuthing until the cows come home !! That's a long time.


----------



## Shamwow

You're in trouble, Greg. Everything points to this being a consummation trip for her A, including the talk of unhappiness weeks back where she assured you she'd never just cheat, she'd tell you before doing anything like that. Ahem - my ex-wife told me the same thing one day before leaving for a work trip (a day early, and oddly enough coming back two days later than her work trip was actually over). Your W's four day trip to visit friends could be exactly that time for her and OM to hit Atlantic City or a nice romantic B&B. In my case, OM wasn't staying at her hotel, but it turns out he was staying at the one next to her, to avoid suspicion from her work colleagues.

Oh - and he lived on the west coast too with a west coast area code, the work trip was east coast.

I found out he was there too late (by hours), and the deed was done.

Might be too late, but I'd hire a PI for the night of the wedding to see where she ends up (it'll be 500-1000 depending on the size of the city she's in and if they need more than one PI to do the tail). As well as the next day when she leaves to "go visit old friends" (mmm hmmm).

Next best - get your a$$ out there now if you wanna save your marriage. Just see how she reacts. Tell her you missed her and changed your mind about missing the party. Even just for one night, then get back home to your work.

The newly purchased negligee tha went with your W put me over the edge with your story, as the same happened to me.

Sorry, but *phoning your W won't do a damn thing* except make you feel bad because she'll deny everything, and no matter how much you love her and are used to trusting her, now is not the time to buy her little stories.

You need to know if it's a PA. *Find that out.* But if you think you'll ever (ever, EVER) get that from your wife right now, you're in for a serious wake up call. She's not going to break down and say "You're right, I starting talking with D-bag Jones and he said he'd be at the wedding and one thing led to another and, oh I'm so sorry...". She'll say you're crazy, guilt you, then talk sh!t about you to everyone she knows to justify her impending leaving of you, and attempting to introduce OM into her life as a viable new relationship to replace her abusive, drunken, workaholic, neglectful (sound familiar?) husband. And being at a family wedding, she could do some serious rep damage to you without you even knowing.

FIND OUT HIS NAME AND ADDRESS. NOW. Intelius.com did me some good for five bucks. Find him on FB. Or ask the PI to get his name and address and marital status from the cell number you have (will be $200 or so for this service).

HIRE A PI. NOW. It'll be worth it to know, for yourself, that you are moving forward on valid information, regardless what you end up deciding to do.


----------



## Chaparral

He hasn't posted in almost three hours. I hope he is on his way and has not fallen asleep. 

Good luck Greg40.


----------



## Shamwow

And Greg, remember no matter what you find out (or don't), don't beg, cry, yell or otherwise lose a calm demeanor as much as possible. Your wife needs to come out of any any possible confrontation respecting you more, not less. Even if it means just calmly walking out of the room, taking a quick walk to calm your emotions, etc.

Good luck, we're all hoping the best for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

I shouldnt have taken the call, I'm very tired and groggy and my head space isn't 100%


But I took her call anyway because I wanted the stomach sickness to go away. I can remember most of it, my plan was to record it, I should have waited till I had that set up, nevermind.



Anyway. After the how's the wedding and what are you up to which I recieved normal replies, I simply said, "look I'm really tired I haven't had much sleep because I've been worrying a lot, I think we're in trouble."

She said: I do too.


I asked if she remembers saying a few weeks ago "I wouldnt just have a physical affair if I was unhappy, I would tell you"

She paused a while and said "yes"


I asked "does that extend to Emotional affairs" ?



I can't remember what was said next, I paused a long time


Anyway, I accused her of having an EA and said I had proof.



She didn't deny the EA


I asked "has it become physical, is he near you now ?"


She said "Absolutely no, I haven't met him ever"



I asked "is that going to change in the next 4 days before you come home" , she said "absolutely no"


I would think most of us know when our partners voice gives a truthful tone, I believe hers did in that regard.





I moved onto to say. "Here are your options, you need to stop this now and you will write to him a No Contact letter, you will copy me in on it. Or we are filing for a divorce"


She said that she wasn't sure If she could right now. And that she knew what she was doing was wrong. That she wasn't trying to justify it but say our marriage wasn't as good as she wanted it to be (I pointed out that she was trying to justify it) 

But we had problems that couldnt just be ironed out on the phone. The I love you but not in love came up, I didn't like that, that usally means things are far gone.


The phone somewhat limited my power here, we hadn't cant have that indepth conversation. I repeated that she stop and I'll be watching (god I sound insane lol)



I asked who the guy was, she said does it matter, i said it did and I know already (I didn't). And If you want to work with me to repair our marriage, I want to see if you can tell the truth.




She told me his name, I was somewhat surprised. Online friend, known him for years. never bothered me because they barely talked. He is married, has two children and is in the armed forces so gets deployed a bit (i think he still does anyway). So one thing is good, he has things to lose.


I asked if she thought for one second that this was going anywhere. She said "no" 


This is quite confusing, its almost like she has somewhat fallen in love with someone that she knows would have to give up so much that it is likely to never go beyond what it is.....but somehow this is hard to give up right now.




We talked about a few other things - I tried to stick to the main points - accuse - put stop to - try to get her back home for talk. But (and I may have made a mistake here) I said, you can stay the remaining days, because you have promised me he is not there. but, I am not talking about things that need to be done face to face. So you can wait for 4 days to continue this conversation or you can come home now.

I think she is considering coming home early. She sounds a bit scared but without it being face to face - not quite scared enough I feel.



I tried another white lie and said, "if you stay....... remember I've taken measures to make sure that this EA affair does not go further.


She asked what measures ?


I said, It's not important what measures, I can't see from here, you have promised me he isnt there. I am going to somewhat trust that know i've taken measures so that I can now see you. I will know if you lie to me and he is there.' If you do, it will be an immediate divorce. 

I left it there and will assume she'll be wondering if that means she's be watched.

"I asked about the lingerie"

"she said "im lonely up here"

I said "and what does that mean" then shut up.

She said, "there were pictures, I sent pictures".

At this point I didn't want to say much more, I felt that id either say too much and weaken what i had said (even further maybe) or we would argue very badly. I said to her that it was very hard to control my temper at the moment. So we wont talk anymore. Just come back and have a good rest of the trip.



I'm not sure if I should have done this but I then gave him a call. 

he answered and when I said is that ***** he said, no its steve. 

I said, I Know you're not steve and we are going to talk - i didnt get a chance to start, he then hung the phone up almost instantly. I assume their talking now. The phone logs will update shortly - i changed her mobile providers password, secret question, email delivery etc so that hopefully she cant stop me checking if she works out thats where I'm getting the info from.

'm going to assume that he wont feel that i'll contact his wife and that I was going to just try to warn him off.


i called back, he wouldnt pick up and went to autophone.




All in all, it was ok, considering the phone limitations. I don't think there is a chance in hell that he will go there now, not that I think he was going to in the first place.


My main problem now is finding a direct contact to his wife. I will be calling her as soon as the sleuthing is done. 


I didn't say that to my wife....I didnt want her to warn OM to help him prepare a story. I suspect they wont consider this to be cause of action from me.



Do you think if I find her contact that I should just call her first. Or email the OM to scare the life out of him if my wife as i suspect, will be unable to put a stop to it immediately aas I would like ?


Quite a lot may have been forgotton at this time. I keep remembering small bits. I feel that I achieved the real initial goals, accuse, find out who, prevent escalation.

I feel slightly better for the time being


----------



## Greg40

Shamwow said:


> And Greg, remember no matter what you find out (or don't), don't beg, cry, yell or otherwise lose a calm demeanor as much as possible. Your wife needs to come out of any any possible confrontation respecting you more, not less. Even if it means just calmly walking out of the room, taking a quick walk to calm your emotions, etc.
> 
> Good luck, we're all hoping the best for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I kept it real calm, maybe a little monotone and robotic lol.

"you will do this, these are you options' etc etc


She had a hard time with me saying "this is what you're going to do" - but I pointed out that I was not asking for anything that you yourself wouldn't ask for.....you are in the wrong here and irrespective of what you think caused this, you cannot have a 3rd person involved if you actually wish to solve this. You are free to move directly to divorce.


I really think it would have been better face to face - like suggested. Just no time. I had to know and stop a potential escalation to even have a chance.

I dunno lol.....it seemed to go pretty well.


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> The pregnant friend had just given birth about 4/5 days ago - is there such a thing as a baby shower, I cant remember but, she wouldn't fit this negligee.


Yes there are baby showers. At a baby shower we give things for the baby: diapers, sleepers, new crib, baby bottles, blankets, etc. Negligees for the mom are not part of the gifts one gives for a baby shower.


----------



## Greg40

EleGirl said:


> Yes there are baby showers. At a baby shower we give things for the baby: diapers, sleepers, new crib, baby bottles, blankets, etc. Negligees for the mom are not part of the gifts one gives for a baby shower.


Ah, so negligees for babies are not appropriate. Duly noted


----------



## EleGirl

If you can reach his wife, I think you should. Ask her if he's in California.

Then tell him about the EA and that you will be sending her proof in a few days. You just do not want to disclose your source right now.

He will be so busy trying to get his wife to forgive him that your wife will most likely be dumped like a hot potato.


----------



## Greg40

Shamwow said:


> You're in trouble, Greg. Everything points to this being a consummation trip for her A, including the talk of unhappiness weeks back where she assured you she'd never just cheat, she'd tell you before doing anything like that. Ahem - my ex-wife told me the same thing one day before leaving for a work trip (a day early, and oddly enough coming back two days later than her work trip was actually over). Your W's four day trip to visit friends could be exactly that time for her and OM to hit Atlantic City or a nice romantic B&B. In my case, OM wasn't staying at her hotel, but it turns out he was staying at the one next to her, to avoid suspicion from her work colleagues.
> 
> Oh - and he lived on the west coast too with a west coast area code, the work trip was east coast.
> 
> I found out he was there too late (by hours), and the deed was done.
> 
> Might be too late, but I'd hire a PI for the night of the wedding to see where she ends up (it'll be 500-1000 depending on the size of the city she's in and if they need more than one PI to do the tail). As well as the next day when she leaves to "go visit old friends" (mmm hmmm).
> 
> Next best - get your a$$ out there now if you wanna save your marriage. Just see how she reacts. Tell her you missed her and changed your mind about missing the party. Even just for one night, then get back home to your work.
> 
> The newly purchased negligee tha went with your W put me over the edge with your story, as the same happened to me.
> 
> Sorry, but *phoning your W won't do a damn thing* except make you feel bad because she'll deny everything, and no matter how much you love her and are used to trusting her, now is not the time to buy her little stories.
> 
> You need to know if it's a PA. *Find that out.* But if you think you'll ever (ever, EVER) get that from your wife right now, you're in for a serious wake up call. She's not going to break down and say "You're right, I starting talking with D-bag Jones and he said he'd be at the wedding and one thing led to another and, oh I'm so sorry...". She'll say you're crazy, guilt you, then talk sh!t about you to everyone she knows to justify her impending leaving of you, and attempting to introduce OM into her life as a viable new relationship to replace her abusive, drunken, workaholic, neglectful (sound familiar?) husband. And being at a family wedding, she could do some serious rep damage to you without you even knowing.
> 
> FIND OUT HIS NAME AND ADDRESS. NOW. Intelius.com did me some good for five bucks. Find him on FB. Or ask the PI to get his name and address and marital status from the cell number you have (will be $200 or so for this service).
> 
> HIRE A PI. NOW. It'll be worth it to know, for yourself, that you are moving forward on valid information, regardless what you end up deciding to do.




Sorry to hear you've had a similar experience.

I could still be in trouble of course - I'm at the beginning and although i do love her, I feel really betrayed right now. The chance of EA to PA was reasonably slim - I know the guy, he has commitments that make it hard to just leave for several days - I'm more convinced that it hasn't/wasn't a likelihood, not on this trip anyway.


I think she wanted the time away alone because she's far enough gone to want an uninterrupted period with this person, rather than sneaking around at home text-ing while we're watching a film and not being able to show of a bit.

She even said that she suspected I knew because Id stopped answering the phone the last few days.


I'm not even entirely sure how to even begin the next process. I'll be scouring the forums of course - so far the suggestions have been invaluable and pretty much prevented me from blundering in shouting like a madman. Some really good direction for the opening assault.......my Waterloo begins


----------



## kenmoore14217

At this point I would go dark. I would not take his, hers or anybody's calls.


----------



## Greg40

EleGirl said:


> If you can reach his wife, I think you should. Ask her if he's in California.
> 
> Then tell him about the EA and that you will be sending her proof in a few days. You just do not want to disclose your source right now.
> 
> He will be so busy trying to get his wife to forgive him that your wife will most likely be dumped like a hot potato.


Agreed, he needs some pain.

I get this real feeling that my wife is totally not going to get why he needs to potentially lose so much - and think that I'm just lashing out for no reason.


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## zsu234

I second going dark


----------



## Jibril

Ugh. It didn't go terribly, but it sure as hell it didn't go "pretty well" either, Greg.

Right now, she is no doubt talking to the OM. Planning their meet-up, and how to do damage control when their spouses confront them.

Yes, you will need to contact his wife, ASAP. Unfortunately, your own wife will probably warn him, and he already knows that you know. He'll be doing damage control to keep things from getting bad at home. Tell his wife anyway, and give her the texts/phone records if she asks for them.

You should expose the affair to the OM's CO if he is still in active service. 

And, you will need to expose to your wife's parents. 

Do this ASAP, because _she_ will paint you as a jealous, controlling madman when things start turning ugly, to garner sympathy from her family and justify her affair. Cut that lifeline out before she can use it. They may even snap her out of her stupidity by confronting her.

Ultimately though, I think you need to file for divorce. As I said earlier, this entire ordeal is completely premeditated (viciously so) to the point where it sounds like she doesn't even care about the marriage anymore. 

I know you're attached to your wife. Nobody here _wanted_ to divorce and separate ourselves from out significant others. But there is only so much disrespect and deceit a person can take before they put their foot down and leave, for their own sake. Your wife's actions are beyond "stupid." They are evil. And considering she cheated on her husband to marry you, this shouldn't be all that surprising, either. 

I won't fault you for trying to keep the marriage intact, but I DO think you should divorce. Either way, you must be _decisive_. That's key. You cannot wait until she makes her move, because cheaters are _notorious_ fence-sitters. They will never make a decision so long as they can get the best of both worlds (a secure marriage and a passionate side-lover). 

Make the decision for her. After you expose (and do this IMMEDIATELY), start filing for divorce. When she gets back, tell her in no uncertain terms that the door to R is open, and she can do whatever is in her power to repair her trust in you and help you heal. Promise her that you, too will work on improving the marriage. But the wheels of divorce must be turning in the background, and she only has until the finalization of the divorce to prove she's worth staying with.

Don't bother talking with her anymore. Once you expose to the other man's wife and to her family, she will lash out _furiously_. Ignore her, and wait until she comes home. _Then_ you hit her with your terms.


----------



## Sbrown

This is no longer an ea if she is trading pics with this OM. IMO it is now a PA. It is sexual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

kenmoore14217 said:


> At this point I would go dark. I would not take his, hers or anybody's calls.




That's a hard one being that we didn't get the usual face to face talk.

But I can see why this is a good course of action.

She just emailed me to say that she had changed her phone providers password back - but she gave me the password. Our only contact since, I havent replied.

She also said that in full disclosure, he called her as soon as Id called him and that she answered. This is to be expected I feel. Mostly because they can't quite believe that I know - and they will want to compare notes. not much I can do about that.

Dangerous times.....4 days for them bond even further over their predicament. I need to find his wife's email lol.


----------



## kenmoore14217

Going dark means no calls, no emails, no texts no telepathy lol for levity sake. 

She told you some straight up facts and you told her some straight up consequences, now is not the time to vacillate for sure


----------



## keko

Why did she change the password right away?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Patrick1959

Just to throw this in for consideration: 

What frame of mind does Greg need to be in so he doesn't show up exhausted, disappointed and angry? I wouldn’t want to see this get turned around and manipulated by his wife to portray him as a crazy jealous husband who is out of control. If this happened the damage control could divert a lot of effort that he will need to focus upon marital difficulties that will likely quickly and rapidly intensify. It seems that getting to the wedding may be the best course of action, but has risks. Perhaps if going to the wedding becomes too difficult (mostly due to physical exhaustion) or if there is concern about losing control than maybe other option could be considered. . 

The PI seems to me to be the best way to go if adultery has occurred and there may be some advantage in divorce court with evidence of adultery. However, if the goal is to do damage control and try to salvage the marriage than the PI may be a postmorum action as part of the divorce. 

I don't see the clear cleavage that going physical makes, certainly makes reconciliation more difficult but an intense EA can be as, or perhaps more damaging than a less intense PA such as a drunken one night stand. Obviously an intense EA that goes P is a grave insult to a marriage but this is not the point of no return all severely damaged marriages; perhaps a better indicator of if a marriage is going to survive may be remorse demonstrated by the WS and how much work the WS is willing to put into reconciliation. 

I know that this goes against what is proven to work, but it is tempting to call the OM and just ask what the relationship is between him and Greg's wife, short and to the point not a call for pleasant conversation (also avoid any threats just seeking the truth). At least it will take some of the romance out of the union and may change the thrill of sneaking to the OH S*** we are caught. After confronting OM the wife will call perhaps Greg should leave a message saying he is unavailable and go dark, the thought that her husband is on to her and may soon be knocking on a hotel room door may have some effect upon the romance of the affair. 

I'm not sure letting FIL know what is going on is not a bad idea. This may help if with scenario of Greg going to the wedding, the FIL knows why Greg is coming and know why he is upset. Another benefit may be to give the OM phone number to the FIL and let him make the call for Greg inquiring of the OM about what his intentions are with the FIL's married daughter. Also make sure he has all incriminating evidence so that when his daugher and the OM try to blame shift he can catch them in a lie; I suspect that OM may be someone the family knows. He may also keep a close eye on his daughter's activities and at least make the liaison uncomfortable. 

If a SIL was good to one of my daughters and I got a call that my daughter was involved in something like this I would be his best allied. I have worked very hard to raise my daughters and I see how difficult it is for a young woman to find a truly decent husband, I would consider the OM's behavior as a great personal insult and he would NEVER be included in any way with my family. Greg knows his FIL well and may be a good judge of how the FIL will respond if she is from a Jerry Springer Family this is probably a waste of time, if the family has a strong sense of honor this may be something important not to be overlooked.

Also perhaps most important is getting to OM's wife or girlfriend; an excuse to keep OM's wife away from the wedding may be the best clue to what is going on. The best part is that little evidence is needed to call the OM's wife and express concern about the relationship between OM and WW.


----------



## Greg40

Jibril said:


> Ugh. It didn't go terribly, but it sure as hell it didn't go "pretty well" either, Greg.
> 
> Right now, she is no doubt talking to the OM. Planning their meet-up, and how to do damage control when their spouses confront them.
> 
> Yes, you will need to contact his wife, ASAP. Unfortunately, your own wife will probably warn him, and he already knows that you know. He'll be doing damage control to keep things from getting bad at home. Tell his wife anyway, and give her the texts/phone records if she asks for them.
> 
> You should expose the affair to the OM's CO if he is still in active service.
> 
> And, you will need to expose to your wife's parents.
> 
> Do this ASAP, because _she_ will paint you as a jealous, controlling madman when things start turning ugly, to garner sympathy from her family and justify her affair. Cut that lifeline out before she can use it. They may even snap her out of her stupidity by confronting her.
> 
> Ultimately though, I think you need to file for divorce. As I said earlier, this entire ordeal is completely premeditated (viciously so) to the point where it sounds like she doesn't even care about the marriage anymore.
> 
> I know you're attached to your wife. Nobody here _wanted_ to divorce and separate ourselves from out significant others. But there is only so much disrespect and deceit a person can take before they put their foot down and leave, for their own sake. Your wife's actions are beyond "stupid." They are evil. And considering she cheated on her husband to marry you, this shouldn't be all that surprising, either.
> 
> I won't fault you for trying to keep the marriage intact, but I DO think you should divorce. Either way, you must be _decisive_. That's key. You cannot wait until she makes her move, because cheaters are _notorious_ fence-sitters. They will never make a decision so long as they can get the best of both worlds (a secure marriage and a passionate side-lover).
> 
> Make the decision for her. After you expose (and do this IMMEDIATELY), start filing for divorce. When she gets back, tell her in no uncertain terms that the door to R is open, and she can do whatever is in her power to repair her trust in you and help you heal. Promise her that you, too will work on improving the marriage. But the wheels of divorce must be turning in the background, and she only has until the finalization of the divorce to prove she's worth staying with.
> 
> Don't bother talking with her anymore. Once you expose to the other man's wife and to her family, she will lash out _furiously_. Ignore her, and wait until she comes home. _Then_ you hit her with your terms.




It felt like it went pretty well, for my first brush with an EA dependant spouse. lol.

Yo're right, She probably is discussing some things with him. Currently though, it feels to me like I've had some temporary relief, while she is now working out how this EA has really effected her. I really don't think they are going to meet though.




She's in Candy floss land, I told this to her, she said "I think I am" - so I'm not expecting good things right now. And feel that I have to be patient until she gets here. The phone only partly worked for the first stage, I got some truths but not a commitment to end right now......because there is very little I can do while we're not in person. I'm going dark with her until she gets here. I hope she starts to think about her future, he doesn;t have one to offer her.....and I'm hoping she will at least talk when she gets back here....one concern is that she gets too much darkness that she makes her own mind up before she even talks to me.


I'm not actually from this country, so I don't know much about divorce proceedures, from what you said I can file but it doesn;t have to go the full way correct ?

God damn lol....my parents are flying in for a vacation in 3 week. That might be just what I need if things go horribly wrong.


----------



## Greg40

keko said:


> Why did she change the password right away?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup, to pay a bill she said.

Then she emailed me to tell me and sent me the new password.


----------



## Harken Banks

Greg40 said:


> She told me his name, I was somewhat surprised. Online friend, known him for years. never bothered me because they barely talked. He is married, has two children and is in the armed forces so gets deployed a bit (i think he still does anyway). So one thing is good, he has things to lose.


Known him for years? Do you know how to contact his wife? If so, do it now.


----------



## kenmoore14217

Going dark is the same as putting a prisoner in an interrogation room alone to sweat it out! If going dark gives her a green light to screw around than you lost before she even left for this trip! So going dark will only benefit you, either it is the end and you are just pushing it to conclusion or she will start to have a very nervous stomach!!


----------



## Jibril

Greg40 said:


> I'm not actually from this country, so I don't know much about divorce proceedures, from what you said I can file but it doesn;t have to go the full way correct ?
> 
> God damn lol....my parents are flying in for a vacation in 3 week. That might be just what I need if things go horribly wrong.


But you are here, yes? In the old US of A?

Get yourself to a divorce lawyer on Monday. Many offer free consultations. Learn what your rights are, and ask him/her any and all of your questions, including how to halt proceedings and such. To my knowledge, you _can_ stop divorce proceedings once they've been started. At least, that's what many TAM posters share here. You can learn more by talking to a lawyer.

There's a common expression here that goes something like "you cannot save your marriage unless you're willing to lose it."

Your wife is gambling with the marriage by pursuing the affair. If you want to stop her and salvage it, you will need to take that same risk.

But first things first - expose the affair. At the very least, expose to OM's wife. Then try and expose to his CO if he's in active service. They may not do much, but _any_ pressure to get him to stop contacting your wife is better than no pressure at all.


----------



## keko

Greg40 said:


> Yup, to pay a bill she said.
> 
> Then she emailed me to tell me and sent me the new password.


She'll likely start using a burner phone or a friends to keep contact from now on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

Harken Banks said:


> Known him for years? Do you know how to contact his wife? If so, do it now.


I don't know yet, not directly at least. And not anything quick like an email.

I have a postal address so far. And a phone number (which he will pick up I suspect) 


I'll keep looking


----------



## lordmayhem

keko said:


> She'll likely start using a burner phone or a friends to keep contact from now on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Now she knows her cell phone is compromised.


----------



## Greg40

keko said:


> She'll likely start using a burner phone or a friends to keep contact from now on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yup, I know you're in all likelihood right right there


----------



## keko

I would still try to put eyes on her either through PI or yourself(discreetly).


----------



## Greg40

Jibril said:


> But you are here, yes? In the old US of A?
> 
> Get yourself to a divorce lawyer on Monday. Many offer free consultations. Learn what your rights are, and ask him/her any and all of your questions, including how to halt proceedings and such. To my knowledge, you _can_ stop divorce proceedings once they've been started. At least, that's what many TAM posters share here. You can learn more by talking to a lawyer.
> 
> There's a common expression here that goes something like "you cannot save your marriage unless you're willing to lose it."
> 
> Your wife is gambling with the marriage by pursuing the affair. If you want to stop her and salvage it, you will need to take that same risk.
> 
> But first things first - expose the affair. At the very least, expose to OM's wife. Then try and expose to his CO if he's in active service. They may not do much, but _any_ pressure to get him to stop contacting your wife is better than no pressure at all.



I'm agreeing with all of this, great advice.

Find lawyer, 

Find wife, tell wife.

*'Your wife is gambling with the marriage by pursuing the affair. If you want to stop her and salvage it, you will need to take that same risk."* put that way, what ever I do from a position of strength - benefits me either way. I save, or I'm prepared. Cant do much else


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Greg I hate to tell you but your marriage is over. The advice I would give you would be to start getting in that mindset. If by chance you end up saving the marriage that mindset will prevent you from becoming the forgiving little spouse that ends up following her around like a lost little puppy dog.



I am trying to get into that frame of mind. It ebbs and flows, one minute I'm thinking "start moving on, at least just start"

The next I'm thinking....."don't go to fast, you haven't sat down face to face yet"



But agreed, ultimately I'm not looking to bend here. I dislike being shat upon and feel very foolish when someone does it....I become very cold and nasty.....it doesn't bode well for when she arrives back here (if she does)


----------



## SomedayDig

I'm gonna call time out for a second.

Seriously, people...telling Greg that his marriage is over and all is kind of jumping the gun a bit. She admitted to him when he asked her. Yes, it's sucks moose balls, but come on...you CAN'T tell the guy the marriage is over yet.

Greg...what do you want, man? What's the deal breaker? In person sex or is the fact that she exchanged pics with him enough? It's up to you what you want to do. I don't believe in the executioner's axe just yet. You at least talked to her. And yes...in all likelihood she is going to trickle truth you about stuff. BUT!! 

She knows you know. The secret is out. That in and of itself stops part of the emotion now that she knows you're aware of it. That can kill the affair to a degree.

Again...what do you really want?


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg40 said:


> I am trying to get into that frame of mind. It ebbs and flows, one minute I'm thinking "start moving on, at least just start"
> 
> The next I'm thinking....."don't go to fast, you haven't sat down face to face yet"
> 
> 
> 
> But agreed, ultimately I'm not looking to bend here. I dislike being shat upon and feel very foolish when someone does it....I become very cold and nasty.....it doesn't bode well for when she arrives back here (if she does)



I'm really sorry you have had to go through this. The way it transpired over the phone and her still being away is agony I'm sure. What you have to keep in mind is that emotionally she checked out of the marriage at some point. She's in a fog with this other guy and nothing you say or do is going to matter right now. That's why you have to make the choice. Walk away or if you feel you want to save this marriage blow whatever this is up. At the very least the OM's wife should definately find out about what's going on. It could also be a good time to compare notes with her. It's amazing what she may know and you don't. You see what the two of them are doing now is damage control and banking on the fact that you will not contact his wife. Toss a huge wrench into those plans and see how quickly things go haywire.


----------



## SomedayDig

Also, Greg...if you know this guy on facebook, then you can obviously see his wife's name.

That's how I contacted the betrayed spouse of my wife's affair.

Facebook.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

SomedayDig said:


> Also, Greg...if you know this guy on facebook, then you can obviously see his wife's name.
> 
> That's how I contacted the betrayed spouse of my wife's affair.
> 
> Facebook.


Did the same thing. Sometimes technology can be your enemy by enabling an affair but sometimes it can be to your advantage. I'm telling you the fog seems to lift a lot quicker when consequences start being seen on both ends.


----------



## Jibril

Greg40 said:


> I'm agreeing with all of this, great advice.
> 
> Find lawyer,
> 
> Find wife, tell wife.
> 
> *'Your wife is gambling with the marriage by pursuing the affair. If you want to stop her and salvage it, you will need to take that same risk."* put that way, what ever I do from a position of strength - benefits me either way. I save, or I'm prepared. Cant do much else


Exactly right. But you will _need to prepare_. Many of the men who start posting here are obscenely passive and indecisive. They are typical "nice guys" who do whatever they can to placate and maintain the status quo, rather assert themselves, enforce their boundaries and learn when to say "No." They would rather bury their head in the sand than face facts, and only when they're hit with graphic details of their spouses betrayal do they get the motivation to actually _do_ something.

This goes both ways, though - do everything in your power to prepare for divorce should it come to that, and do everything in your power to _destroy the affair_ and find if this woman is worth staying married to. This includes exposure. I am certain she will be contacting the OM via a burner phone. She didn't give you the password as a sign of "good will." It's a power play to make you _think_ she's being honest.

Which is why I really, _truly_ think you should expose to her family in addition to the OM's wife and CO. She's playing dirty now, using underhanded tactics to ease your suspicions and take her affair underground.


----------



## Harken Banks

SomedayDig said:


> Also, Greg...if you know this guy on facebook, then you can obviously see his wife's name.
> 
> That's how I contacted the betrayed spouse of my wife's affair.
> 
> Facebook.


Do that. Find her. From friends of friends, whatever.

Also, I agree that this has gone from "something is up" to "it's over" in a hurry. I'd caution that just calling it out may not make a dent in the emotion. It has to be blown out of the water.


----------



## keko

SomedayDig said:


> I'm gonna call time out for a second.
> 
> Seriously, people...telling Greg that his marriage is over and all is kind of jumping the gun a bit. She admitted to him when he asked her. Yes, it's sucks moose balls, but come on...you CAN'T tell the guy the marriage is over yet.


So he shouldn't show a strong consequence to his wife? He should sweep it under the rug? Beg his wife to come back? Send her flowers?


----------



## warlock07

You dealt it superbly considering what you found out but you shouldn't have confronted her with an EA only accusation. The EA or PA part should have been left ambiguous. "How long were you having this affair and how many time did you guys meet ?" or something like that.

Don't bargain for reconciliation. She had the nerve to say that she probably cannot end it after getting caught. She needs to know that you mean business after a statement like that. You cannot look weak now. Confide in family member to keep tabs on her if she won't return early. Or better, expose it to them if she is deep in the affair.


----------



## SomedayDig

keko said:


> So he shouldn't show a strong consequence to his wife? He should sweep it under the rug? Beg his wife to come back? Send her flowers?


Did I come close to saying that?

Read my other posts in here first before responding with nonsensical things.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> I shouldnt have taken the call, I'm very tired and groggy and my head space isn't 100%
> 
> 
> But I took her call anyway because I wanted the stomach sickness to go away. I can remember most of it, my plan was to record it, I should have waited till I had that set up, nevermind.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway. After the how's the wedding and what are you up to which I recieved normal replies, I simply said, "look I'm really tired I haven't had much sleep because I've been worrying a lot, I think we're in trouble."
> 
> She said: I do too.
> 
> 
> I asked if she remembers saying a few weeks ago "I wouldnt just have a physical affair if I was unhappy, I would tell you"
> 
> She paused a while and said "yes"
> 
> 
> I asked "does that extend to Emotional affairs" ?
> 
> 
> 
> I can't remember what was said next, I paused a long time
> 
> 
> Anyway, I accused her of having an EA and said I had proof.
> 
> 
> 
> She didn't deny the EA
> 
> 
> I asked "has it become physical, is he near you now ?"
> 
> 
> She said "Absolutely no, I haven't met him ever"
> 
> 
> 
> I asked "is that going to change in the next 4 days before you come home" , she said "absolutely no"
> 
> 
> I would think most of us know when our partners voice gives a truthful tone, I believe hers did in that regard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I moved onto to say. "Here are your options, you need to stop this now and you will write to him a No Contact letter, you will copy me in on it. Or we are filing for a divorce"
> 
> 
> She said that she wasn't sure If she could right now. And that she knew what she was doing was wrong. That she wasn't trying to justify it but say our marriage wasn't as good as she wanted it to be (I pointed out that she was trying to justify it)
> 
> But we had problems that couldnt just be ironed out on the phone. The I love you but not in love came up, I didn't like that, that usally means things are far gone.
> 
> 
> The phone somewhat limited my power here, we hadn't cant have that indepth conversation. I repeated that she stop and I'll be watching (god I sound insane lol)
> 
> 
> 
> I asked who the guy was, she said does it matter, i said it did and I know already (I didn't). And If you want to work with me to repair our marriage, I want to see if you can tell the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She told me his name, I was somewhat surprised. Online friend, known him for years. never bothered me because they barely talked. He is married, has two children and is in the armed forces so gets deployed a bit (i think he still does anyway). So one thing is good, he has things to lose.
> 
> 
> I asked if she thought for one second that this was going anywhere. She said "no"
> 
> 
> This is quite confusing, its almost like she has somewhat fallen in love with someone that she knows would have to give up so much that it is likely to never go beyond what it is.....but somehow this is hard to give up right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We talked about a few other things - I tried to stick to the main points - accuse - put stop to - try to get her back home for talk. But (and I may have made a mistake here) I said, you can stay the remaining days, because you have promised me he is not there. but, I am not talking about things that need to be done face to face. So you can wait for 4 days to continue this conversation or you can come home now.
> 
> I think she is considering coming home early. She sounds a bit scared but without it being face to face - not quite scared enough I feel.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried another white lie and said, "if you stay....... remember I've taken measures to make sure that this EA affair does not go further.
> 
> 
> She asked what measures ?
> 
> 
> I said, It's not important what measures, I can't see from here, you have promised me he isnt there. I am going to somewhat trust that know i've taken measures so that I can now see you. I will know if you lie to me and he is there.' If you do, it will be an immediate divorce.
> 
> I left it there and will assume she'll be wondering if that means she's be watched.
> 
> "I asked about the lingerie"
> 
> "she said "im lonely up here"
> 
> I said "and what does that mean" then shut up.
> 
> She said, "there were pictures, I sent pictures".
> 
> At this point I didn't want to say much more, I felt that id either say too much and weaken what i had said (even further maybe) or we would argue very badly. I said to her that it was very hard to control my temper at the moment. So we wont talk anymore. Just come back and have a good rest of the trip.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if I should have done this but I then gave him a call.
> 
> he answered and when I said is that ***** he said, no its steve.
> 
> I said, I Know you're not steve and we are going to talk - i didnt get a chance to start, he then hung the phone up almost instantly. I assume their talking now. The phone logs will update shortly - i changed her mobile providers password, secret question, email delivery etc so that hopefully she cant stop me checking if she works out thats where I'm getting the info from.
> 
> 'm going to assume that he wont feel that i'll contact his wife and that I was going to just try to warn him off.
> 
> 
> i called back, he wouldnt pick up and went to autophone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, it was ok, considering the phone limitations. I don't think there is a chance in hell that he will go there now, not that I think he was going to in the first place.
> 
> 
> My main problem now is finding a direct contact to his wife. I will be calling her as soon as the sleuthing is done.
> 
> 
> I didn't say that to my wife....I didnt want her to warn OM to help him prepare a story. I suspect they wont consider this to be cause of action from me.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think if I find her contact that I should just call her first. Or email the OM to scare the life out of him if my wife as i suspect, will be unable to put a stop to it immediately aas I would like ?
> 
> 
> Quite a lot may have been forgotton at this time. I keep remembering small bits. I feel that I achieved the real initial goals, accuse, find out who, prevent escalation.
> 
> I feel slightly better for the time being


This is the point where you're supposed to blow the covers off it. Tell her parents and the OM wife. She will let you know if he was in the area. Tell the wife everything you know. print out phone records, text records (even though it wont let you see the text, she'll freak at the shear number of pages of back-and-forth texting). This will prompt her to blow the covers off at her house and the husband will inevitably realize that he wants to stay with his wife and will dropkick yours. Your wife will be incredibly upset over this, but you have to stay strong move out. cut off all contact and let her beg. Then tell her if there is any chance of reconciliation she needs to be completely transparent. No deleting texts, no hidden emails, etc. Then put the VAR in her car. And by the way, I wouldn't believe a word she says unless there is physical proof behind it. And I still think the affair is at the PA level.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Yup two choices right now.

1) Contact a divorce lawyer Monday morning.

2) Blow up the affair. Contact his wife now!!!


----------



## Jibril

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Yup two choices right now.
> 
> 1) Contact a divorce lawyer Monday morning.
> 
> 2) Blow up the affair. Contact his wife now!!!


Not a choice. _He should be doing_ _*both*_. Add "Expose to her family right now!" and you have Greg's agenda for the weekend.


----------



## Harken Banks

Keko, what's the point of this?


----------



## EleGirl

I believe I read that someone suggested that you move out. Do not move out.


----------



## Entropy3000

So she has never met this guy? 

If she has a laptop they are using skype.

The pictures tales this to cybersexing. Meaning this is past an EA now. EAs are more about feeling connected in an emotional way. Maybe some I love yous and so on.

This is sexual. If this has not gone sexual it will as soon as they can get together.

Why do you think he is not there already? 

Why did you give her a free pass of the next four days?

Once disclosure happens any leeway is extremely counter-productive. It is used to cake eat. To pursue the affair. In fact confrontation of an EA can cause it to go to a PA quickly.

Exposing to the wife is critical.

Also you must see a lawyer ASAP.


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> I'm gonna call time out for a second.
> 
> Seriously, people...telling Greg that his marriage is over and all is kind of jumping the gun a bit. She admitted to him when he asked her. Yes, it's sucks moose balls, but come on...you CAN'T tell the guy the marriage is over yet.
> 
> Greg...what do you want, man? What's the deal breaker? In person sex or is the fact that she exchanged pics with him enough? It's up to you what you want to do. I don't believe in the executioner's axe just yet. You at least talked to her. And yes...in all likelihood she is going to trickle truth you about stuff. BUT!!
> 
> She knows you know. The secret is out. That in and of itself stops part of the emotion now that she knows you're aware of it. That can kill the affair to a degree.
> 
> Again...what do you really want?





Id like to work it out and I'm sure we can fix this EA ...our own relationship was an EA where we are what my wife and OM are doing now.

We were both truly happy for the first time, when we found each other - it didn't matter that there were 2 casualties and they both took it real hard. 


She has been a rock solid wife for 8 years. I have honestly very little to moan about....shes a bit messy maybe.

We both work long hours from a home office. we are there at least 15 hours a day either working or surfing. Have been for 8 years. If we're not in the office, we're usually in each others company or in the house. Up until recently (it seems) we wouldn't have had it any other way.


Over time, I suspect this "constant closeness" has reduced how I demonstrate my feelings to her. She says I used to be so much better in that department - I've only just started working on it when she said again recently that she wasn't sure that I was even interested in her and we we're like good friends, it wasn't the first time I can assure you.


I messed her birthday up this year, the present was ordered too late because, I dunno, I was probably on the xbox.


On my birthday, the present is always there, she gets a cake, we go out to dinner. Every year, she does something.



We say I love you at bedtime, we have sex often enough but has the spark dropped on a day to day basis....sure, partly my fault ? Mostly Id say. She is better than me at demonstrating her feelings and trying to keep the spark. 





Anyway, In person sex would have been a deal breaker. 

Photos exchanged, phone and text wouldn't be - they not less harmless of course, but should we successfully reconcile, they wouldn't don't give me images in my head like my wife physically cheating on me.



I don't want to justify her behavior, she says that she has told me these things plenty of times. I still think there are other options than a relationship that starts out partly innocent and quickly escalates to an EA.



But, I want to keep our marriage. I'm sure I can get this back. Obviously she emotionally cheated but, I probably pushed her in the direction - and online for sure is dangerous when people feel unloved.


----------



## Greg40

EleGirl said:


> I believe I read that someone suggested that you move out. Do not move out.


I agree. I'll attempt to give her space from our day to day home office but, I won't move out. We have the room to co-exist during the tough part coming.


----------



## Greg40

Entropy3000 said:


> So she has never met this guy?
> 
> If she has a laptop they are using skype.
> 
> The pictures tales this to cybersexing. Meaning this is past an EA now. EAs are more about feeling connected in an emotional way. Maybe some I love yous and so on.
> 
> This is sexual. If this has not gone sexual it will as soon as they can get together.
> 
> Why do you think he is not there already?
> 
> Why did you give her a free pass of the next four days?
> 
> Once disclosure happens any leeway is extremely counter-productive. It is used to cake eat. To pursue the affair. In fact confrontation of an EA can cause it to go to a PA quickly.
> 
> Exposing to the wife is critical.
> 
> Also you must see a lawyer ASAP.




She hasn't met him

She has a tablet, you're right, probably skyping.

If they were closer distance wise, I think with photos, it could escalate.

I Don't think he's there because He's on the west coast right now, she's on the east, he has a wife and two children to escape from, he would have to hide the costs which wouldn't be easy. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely. 

I only gave her a pass because she said he wasn't there. She said it in a way that I believed her. You could tell there was nothing to hide in her answers because I told her that I already knew the answers (even if I didn't) and wanted to see if she would lie.


I will expose to his wife, once I can contact here by something other than phone.


Yes, I will see a lawyer and get that started.


----------



## Chaparral

Whats the story with the OM? How do you know him? Does he travel for work? Income?


----------



## Jibril

Greg40 said:


> Obviously she emotionally cheated but, I probably pushed her in the direction - and online for sure is dangerous when people feel unloved.


Oh God, No. _No, no, no_. You remember those indecisive "nice guys" who stick there head in the sand when they don't want to face facts? Thats is exactly what they believe - they take blame for their spouse's infidelity.

Get this straight, before you hurt yourself - _her_ affair is not _your_ fault. It isn't. At all. I think your past infidelity has screwed with how you perceive this fact. Your ex wife didn't "make" you cheat, any more than you "made" your wife cheat now. You _chose_ to cheat then. The infidelity was entirely on you. 

And this case is no different - your wife is making the conscious and deliberate _choice_ of having an affair. By assuming responsibility for her affair _yourself_, you are removing her responsibility for her affair. She isn't stupid. She knew then, and knows now _exactly_ what she's doing.

You are responsible for the marriage. Half responsible. The affair? That is 100% on your cheating wife. She _chose_ this.


----------



## Shamwow

We know how you feel..."there's still a chance"...but truly, there really isn't if you project this to her. She needs to know you can move on without her and be fine. If she presumes you'll be there trying to "fix" it" she'll have no consequences for her actions, and will respect you even less.

You indicate you're willing to reconcile if it was "just" EA, texting, pics, Skype sex, etc. I get that. But if you tell her that she'll KEEP DOING THOSE THINGS, because...well, why not?! Hubby will still be there trying to "better himself" for her.

Okay, you may have become complacent, you may spend too much time on the xbox, you may have put a couple pounds on, you may not have paid her as much attention as she deserved. Not good things, but all fairly common things dealt with in marriage. And...what is her solution to remedy this? Talk to you to resolve the problems? Maybe she voiced some concerns that went unheeded. But dude, her next choice is stripping down and sending pics of herself (you can only imagine how intimate...not to mention the c0ck-shots coming from him that she's offing herself to at night while you sit at home maintaining the house)...to a complete stranger who has a family of his own. If you think this is fine, and something you can forgive, that's your prerogative. Sorry for the graphic wording, but you know it's true.

But from the outside view, she's out of line. The marriage has problems. Instead of fixing them she's making you out to be a joke. I hope she shows actual remorse when she gets home, but...to me it sounds like she has your number bigtime. You must NOT try to make this "all good" right away.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> I agree. I'll attempt to give her space from our day to day home office but, I won't move out. We have the room to co-exist during the tough part coming.


You are too quick to R. You don't even know the extent of the relationship. You are stating you are to blame as if she has the upper hand. She's the one who F&%$ed up not you. You may have some responsibility for the decline of communication, but she alone owns the affair. Don't make it so easy for her, you'll end up giving her all the power. If she does "take you back" she'll end up doing it again. If you make her think you don't want her, even though you clearly do, she will come around and realize what a mistake she made.


----------



## Greg40

She just emailed.

She's coming home 2 days early. She said she understands if I'm so angry that I don't want to pick her up from the airport, and if I don't she'll pay for a cab (it'll be more than the flight)


She also says to board her two small dogs If I can't stand to look after them because of her.

Well, its a start.

I shouldn't answer this email - is it harmful to let he know I haven't murdered her dogs and that I can collect her. I can't start of from a place of pettiness is I want her to open up when we start talking can I ? 

maybe I should say, I'll pick you up as soon as I'm done at the lawyers ?


----------



## Chaparral

Just text her you will let her know. But wait awhile.


----------



## warlock07

2 days early? Not early enough!!


----------



## Chaparral

Hopefully thry had a come to Jesus convo. You might also tell her you haven't killed the dogs ..............yet. Just kidding. ;-)


----------



## Shamwow

Greg40 said:


> She hasn't met him


Says her.



> I Don't think he's there because He's on the west coast right now, she's on the east, he has a wife and two children to escape from, he would have to hide the costs which wouldn't be easy. I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.


Not only very possible, but easily doable for lots of people. People who travel for work, or, say have a family wedding across the country, or in his case maybe he ships out a few days early or has training somewhere for a week, who's to know? (not in the military, so apologies for the vaguery).




> I only gave her a pass *because she said he wasn't there. She said it in a way that I believed her*. You could tell there was nothing to hide in her answers because I told her that I already knew the answers (even if I didn't) and wanted to see if she would lie.


Again, says her. Look we get that. But read back earlier in your thread where everyone told you exactly that would happen, that you would want to believe her, so you would. Doesn't matter if we don't know your W like you do...we all knew our spouses would never cheat too. You HAVE to keep your head here and not try to make it all go away...this sh!t is happening, like it or not. Look out for your best interests right now, not hers...she has much proving to do before she should have that privilege.



> I will expose to his wife, once I can contact here by something other than phone.


Why not phone?




> Yes, I will see a lawyer and get that started.


Good.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> Whats the story with the OM? How do you know him? Does he travel for work? Income?



He used to be in the forces, tbh I have no idea now. I don't think his income is great and i doubt he travels unless he is in the forces still and its re-deployment.

He was just some guy on a design forum. I didn't know him at all. he used to send her harmless IM's "i liked your last design" - I saw no point worrying about that, he was married had a kid....lived 1000 miles away. And he didn't stalk, a few IMs every 2 or 3 months.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> Just text her you will let her know. But wait awhile.


very good


----------



## SomedayDig

keko said:


> Nonsensical? Tell me where the sense is in forgiving a cheater of 5+ years, in the loyal spouses house, on his bed?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you'd like to take this to PM, dude...I'd suggest that route. Cuz your f'ng story is totally wrong.


----------



## Greg40

warlock07 said:


> 2 days early? Not early enough!!


I know. I think I know why though. 

She probably can't leave the wedding early without everyone wondering why. She does work on the east coast, she does have to drop into work (they know she's there).


I dunno, not trying to make excuses but, this is only a few hours after the call.


----------



## member2012

I have been reading your thread. I don't think you have a chance until you expose to the OM's wife, with full evidence. That is the first opportunity you will have to be taken seriously and to cause any rift between your W and the OM. You can give a window of opportunity to your wife to want to reconsider her marriage to you if you do this. THe OM will be far to concerned with his own marriage to give her the attention she will be wanting right now, and he may not have the sources or the brains to know how to cover up his tracks to his own wife, so he will be extra busy trying to keep his own marriage in control.


----------



## Chaparral

When you contact his wife find out if he is still in the service. If he isn't do your best to see where he works. I assume you have googled his name.

Now that you have his name try that on spokeo.com.


----------



## Greg40

Shamwow said:


> Says her.
> 
> 
> 
> Not only very possible, but easily doable for lots of people. People who travel for work, or, say have a family wedding across the country, or in his case maybe he ships out a few days early or has training somewhere for a week, who's to know? (not in the military, so apologies for the vaguery).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, says her. Look we get that. But read back earlier in your thread where everyone told you exactly that would happen, that you would want to believe her, so you would. Doesn't matter if we don't know your W like you do...we all knew our spouses would never cheat too. You HAVE to keep your head here and not try to make it all go away...this sh!t is happening, like it or not. Look out for your best interests right now, not hers...she has much proving to do before she should have that privilege.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not phone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good.



Agreed, I'm going to stick with the plan and not make excuses for her behavior. You do this or we split. 

It feels hard right now simply because my mind thinks laterally - I need to alter it for this purpose and to reach the goal.


Go Dark
Expose to wife
See Lawyer



I tried to phone, he picked it up and hung up immediately.....and now he knows I know, he'll probably keep doing it. I bet he's taken the chord out and his wife is none the wiser. 

I'll try calling at different times.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> When you contact his wife find out if he is still in the service. If he isn't do your best to see where he works. I assume you have googled his name.
> 
> Now that you have his name try that on spokeo.com.


I'll ask her.

I have googled his name but no luck on her name yet......not that its crazy important, i just need her to be the one who picks the phone up first.


----------



## Greg40

member2012 said:


> I have been reading your thread. I don't think you have a chance until you expose to the OM's wife, with full evidence. That is the first opportunity you will have to be taken seriously and to cause any rift between your W and the OM. You can give a window of opportunity to your wife to want to reconsider her marriage to you if you do this. THe OM will be far to concerned with his own marriage to give her the attention she will be wanting right now, and he may not have the sources or the brains to know how to cover up his tracks to his own wife, so he will be extra busy trying to keep his own marriage in control.



Yes, It needs to be done...I just need to get hold of her directly


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

maybe I should say, I'll pick you up as soon as I'm done at the lawyers?

I like it.


----------



## Shamwow

Greg40 said:


> I tried to phone, he picked it up and hung up immediately.....and now he knows I know, he'll probably keep doing it. I bet he's taken the chord out and his wife is none the wiser.
> 
> I'll try calling at different times.


A PI can get you her name and maybe a cell number for her by tomorrow afternoon. Meantime you can try using the caller id apps that others have mentioned, so it could show up as a call from their area code. If he answers, ask for Mrs (OM's last name). If he says she's out just say thanks and bid him goodbye, then try again during business hours when he might be at work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> She just emailed.
> 
> She's coming home 2 days early. She said she understands if I'm so angry that I don't want to pick her up from the airport, and if I don't she'll pay for a cab (it'll be more than the flight)
> 
> 
> She also says to board her two small dogs If I can't stand to look after them because of her.
> 
> Well, its a start.
> 
> I shouldn't answer this email - is it harmful to let he know I haven't murdered her dogs and that I can collect her. I can't start of from a place of pettiness is I want her to open up when we start talking can I ?
> 
> maybe I should say, I'll pick you up as soon as I'm done at the lawyers ?





Greg40 said:


> He used to be in the forces, tbh I have no idea now. I don't think his income is great and i doubt he travels unless he is in the forces still and its re-deployment.
> 
> He was just some guy on a design forum. I didn't know him at all. he used to send her harmless IM's "i liked your last design" - I saw no point worrying about that, he was married had a kid....lived 1000 miles away. And he didn't stalk, a few IMs every 2 or 3 months.


If she has him on her FB account you need to contact the OMW and tell her. This is not an option. He will be so mad he will drop her. Also she is only being nice right now for damage control.


----------



## Shamwow

Assuming OM has his wife listed on his FB. Mine didn't...other means may be necessary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SomedayDig

Greg40 said:


> Id like to work it out and I'm sure we can fix this EA ...our own relationship was an EA where we are what my wife and OM are doing now.
> 
> We were both truly happy for the first time, when we found each other - it didn't matter that there were 2 casualties and they both took it real hard.
> 
> *As you've read from others, this is a red flag only because that's how you guys met. Knowing what she's capable of is your first clue.*
> 
> She has been a rock solid wife for 8 years. I have honestly very little to moan about....shes a bit messy maybe.
> 
> We both work long hours from a home office. we are there at least 15 hours a day either working or surfing. Have been for 8 years. If we're not in the office, we're usually in each others company or in the house. Up until recently (it seems) we wouldn't have had it any other way.
> 
> 
> Over time, I suspect this "constant closeness" has reduced how I demonstrate my feelings to her. She says I used to be so much better in that department - I've only just started working on it when she said again recently that she wasn't sure that I was even interested in her and we we're like good friends, it wasn't the first time I can assure you.
> 
> 
> I messed her birthday up this year, the present was ordered too late because, I dunno, I was probably on the xbox.
> 
> *Dude...my wife, Regret on the forums, was a WoW widow. But that had ZERO bearing on the affair. That was her choice. A stupid, stupid choice. You bear no fault for your wife choosing to have this EA/pic exchange. My wife also did the whole "we weren't as intimate" thing, too. It was a load of crap. She never talked about it during her affair...why? Because it was a smoke screen. Don't fall for it and don't take ANY blame for the affair.*
> 
> On my birthday, the present is always there, she gets a cake, we go out to dinner. Every year, she does something.
> 
> 
> 
> We say I love you at bedtime, we have sex often enough but has the spark dropped on a day to day basis....sure, partly my fault ? Mostly Id say. She is better than me at demonstrating her feelings and trying to keep the spark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, In person sex would have been a deal breaker.
> 
> *Good to know and hopefully it didn't ever get to that point.*
> 
> Photos exchanged, phone and text wouldn't be - they not less harmless of course, but should we successfully reconcile, they wouldn't don't give me images in my head like my wife physically cheating on me.
> 
> *No...it is no less harmless cuz it's still cheating. However, some of us can live with different things in this department. Not everyone is of the same make up.*
> 
> I don't want to justify her behavior, she says that she has told me these things plenty of times. I still think there are other options than a relationship that starts out partly innocent and quickly escalates to an EA.
> 
> *It quickly escalates for millions of reasons. The first is the spark...that whole "someone is paying attention" junk...the ego feed. Then comes the fog.*
> 
> But, I want to keep our marriage. I'm sure I can get this back. Obviously she emotionally cheated but, I probably pushed her in the direction - and online for sure is dangerous when people feel unloved.


Again, man...you did NOT push her in that direction. As has been said here, you were responsible for 50% of the marriage. She is responsible for 100% of the affair. Period. There is NO wiggle room on that part.


----------



## Chaparral

You've already paid spokeo, it sometimes list relatives. Don't know if you have to pay again.

Using a PI though will freak everyone out and know you mean business.


----------



## Greg40

lifeisnotsogood said:


> If she has him on her FB account you need to contact the OMW and tell her. This is not an option. He will be so mad he will drop her. Also she is only being nice right now for damage control.




Great idea....and it paid off.

I've got her FB now and am going to craft a message.

I hope he doesn't check his wives FB.


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> Again, man...you did NOT push her in that direction. As has been said here, you were responsible for 50% of the marriage. She is responsible for 100% of the affair. Period. There is NO wiggle room on that part.




Understood.


I need to stop thinking that a proportioning the blame even if only slightly will help.


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> Great idea....and it paid off.
> 
> I've got her FB now and am going to craft a message.
> 
> I hope he doesn't check his wives FB.


You will find out if he does


----------



## Shamwow

Great! Do it soon as he can block you from his FB (and hers if he has her login info) any time and then you won't be able to message her. But either way now you have her name! Good hunting...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SomedayDig

Shamwow said:


> Great! Do it soon as he can block you from his FB (and hers if he has her login info) any time and then you won't be able to message her. But either way now you have her name! Good hunting...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Definitely heed this. The note I sent to the xOM's wife was intercepted by him and he blocked me immediately. Sent me an message asking me to respect that they wanted to work things out. Oh...he did all this posing as his wife.

Too bad I'm a lot more devious.

I waited a month after Dday and had found where she worked and had her personal email. I sent one that said, "I hope he told you how many times they had sex in your basement and spare bedroom".

That f'd his day up.


----------



## Shamwow

Be prepared she will not be happy and may be in shock, so her response could be terse. That said, most often the other betrayed spouse is ultimately appreciative and becomes an ally in quashing the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

And remember you're doing the right thing by giving her the truth to make her own life decisions with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

What should it say.

something like:

I'm writing from my wife's account, she had an emotional affair with XXXXX over xyz months.


I only found out a few days ago. I'm furious at both my wife's and your husbands actions. She says she might be in love with him, I do not know if this is reciprocated

If you wish to see proof I have the phone records. 

If you wish to talk contact me here :


does that cover it ?


----------



## SomedayDig

I would also include that they exchanged pics. But I think that is just fine.


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> I would also include that they exchanged pics. But I think that is just fine.


----------



## EleGirl

I guess that since you have told her that you know you will not be able to get any emails, photos, etc that they have exchanged. Do you have anything besides the phone records.. they are pretty clear but...


----------



## mina

this stuff is really instructional. Good luck Greg40.

Sounds like at least, a spanking is in order, no matter what else happens.


----------



## EleGirl

mina said:


> this stuff is really instructional. Good luck Greg40.
> 
> Sounds like at least, a spanking is in order, no matter what else happens.


spanking?:scratchhead:


----------



## Greg40

I've exposed the affair to OMs Spouse via an FB message.


ugh, lets see what happens i guess


----------



## keko

Has she answered you or you just sent a message?


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> I've exposed the affair to OMs Spouse via an FB message.
> 
> 
> ugh, lets see what happens i guess


You might want to ask her if she would call you so that you know that she got your message and her husband did not intercept it.

YOu can only sit and wait.

There was a person here who letter to the OM's wife was intercepted by the OM. But a few months later she re-sent the letter. Well sure enough the OM's wife got it that time because the OM thought he had out smarted everyone and was no longer covering his basis.


----------



## Shaggy

While she is gone you need to get into her computer and copy everything you can.

You might also be able to into her Skype logs and copy. Everything she has said. You might even e able to log in as her into skype. If you can change her skype PA and recovery account.

Drop keyloggers onto all er computers before she gets back, as well as a VAR in her car.

Also call her parents and let them know what she is doing. They cantalk to her while she is there.

She isn't at all remorseful and is continuing to contact him. You need to contact his wife ASAP, mention the sex pictures she sent him.


----------



## Entropy3000

Greg40 said:


> She just emailed.
> 
> She's coming home 2 days early. She said she understands if I'm so angry that I don't want to pick her up from the airport, and if I don't she'll pay for a cab (it'll be more than the flight)
> 
> 
> She also says to board her two small dogs If I can't stand to look after them because of her.
> 
> Well, its a start.
> 
> I shouldn't answer this email - is it harmful to let he know I haven't murdered her dogs and that I can collect her. I can't start of from a place of pettiness is I want her to open up when we start talking can I ?
> 
> maybe I should say, I'll pick you up as soon as I'm done at the lawyers ?


Just tell her you will pick her up.

But do see a lawyer first.


----------



## Entropy3000

Greg40 said:


> I know. I think I know why though.
> 
> She probably can't leave the wedding early without everyone wondering why. She does work on the east coast, she does have to drop into work (they know she's there).
> 
> 
> I dunno, not trying to make excuses but, this is only a few hours after the call.


Huh? She works on the east coast. Not near her home? How often does she travel for her work? 

This is very very significant. Also keep in mind there may be another OM. Hopefully not. You said you knew who the guy was and she fed you a name. You agreed that was him. Hmmmmmm.


----------



## Entropy3000

SomedayDig said:


> I would also include that they exchanged pics. But I think that is just fine.


That they exchanged intimate pics.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Well, guess this went like as was written. You have proceeded well to expose. Next step is learning how to extract the truth. Be prepared for trickle truth. Where is lord mayhem and that iceberg picture....? Now you have to assure that there is NO contact, best way even if she has a burner phone is VAR in her vehicle. You said if she contacted him you'd divorce, are you a man of your word? You said this was a conversation better handled face to face? I agree, then again its kind of wierd how she took her lingerie because she'll be lonely, and to take pictures? I'm confused. My mind cannot process such ridiculousness


----------



## member2012

Entropy3000 said:


> Huh? She works on the east coast. Not near her home? How often does she travel for her work?
> 
> This is very very significant. Also keep in mind there may be another OM. Hopefully not. You said you knew who the guy was and she fed you a name. You agreed that was him. Hmmmmmm.


Entropy,
Wouldn't he know for sure who it is from the phone number on the text and phone calls?


----------



## mina

I am clearly over my head here. I haven't been a victim of infidelity and I have never considered it myself. 

it just kind of sounds like OP is planning to accept her story, in general, and let her come on home. if he is going to do that maybe she needs some punishment, of any variety. I am not sure what the usual treatment is. 

besides total transperancy of course. 

call me completely stupid but if someone is looking outside the marriage for sex and you plan to take that person back, should part of it be figuring out / unlocking what is the sexual void that person was looking to fill? 

maybe i don't have a clue, but that's what I'd be thinking!


----------



## Greg40

Entropy3000 said:


> Huh? She works on the east coast. Not near her home? How often does she travel for her work?
> 
> This is very very significant. Also keep in mind there may be another OM. Hopefully not. You said you knew who the guy was and she fed you a name. You agreed that was him. Hmmmmmm.



Her work company is on the east coast, friends and family too.



We live in the Mid west. She telecommutes to work. 

Every now and then, there will be a reason to physically have to got back to the EC (like this relatives wedding. 

Once people know you're going back, they want you to drop in. There is no "I'm back for 5 days but, no I'm not going to come see you boss/grandma/mum -dad/Hs girlfriends" people get offended lol.


----------



## the guy

Any word on the exposure to OMW?


----------



## Greg40

EleGirl said:


> You might want to ask her if she would call you so that you know that she got your message and her husband did not intercept it.
> 
> YOu can only sit and wait.
> 
> There was a person here who letter to the OM's wife was intercepted by the OM. But a few months later she re-sent the letter. Well sure enough the OM's wife got it that time because the OM thought he had out smarted everyone and was no longer covering his basis.


Yes, contact might not work on the first go.

She's had the message in her FB for 3 hours, he is more than likely on the PC right now.

Id wager OMs wife barely touches the PC, because he's always on it. 

Might have to try a few times, which obviously doesn't help if there is a secret contact going on still and the message to his wife isn't getting though.


----------



## EleGirl

Keep trying to find out where she works. If she does not work, when she is home alone. Then send someone with a letter to hand it directly to her.


----------



## AlphaHalf

I didn't read all of your posts. But I understand the OM is in the military. If you contact his unit and let them know whats going on, they will approach him and tell him to stop. The military does not take infidelity lightly. It would be a bad mark on his record if he continues to talk to your wife, his command will be forced to take action. Save whatever evidence you have and show them. And his wife will be contacted. 

Find out what base he is from, then his assigned unit, look online for the unit's webpage and the base operator can get you in touch with his command.


----------



## the guy

I hope, in a way that OM finds the FB meesage and it scares him into breaking it off with you wife to save his own marriage.

It would be interesting to see how your wife would have responded to this senerio.


----------



## the guy

The military is a good tactic, OM would get talked to but with out proof of adultory= sexual intercourse with someone other then your spouse.....then he will not get a court marshal.

There is a good chance he would get a warning and thats bad enough to have on your military record.

The threat alone should scare the crap out of him.


----------



## jnj express

I am gonna throw in my 2 cents

Do not answer any calls/texts/e-mails from your wife------when she comes home-----do not pick her up

While she is gone, move all of her clothes/cosmetics/sundries---to another room in your home

When she gets home---have your conversation with her---it is to be ONE SIDED----you talking only---lay out your boundaries, and tell her there is no discussion, as to complying---she will or she can go find an atty, to defend a D. action

Tell her she has no right to the marital bedroom, as she has betrayed the mge.------tell her she has been moved to another room, so she can see what life will be like in a small apt., and on her own

Tell her, that she knows absolutely nothing about this other guy, except the lies and BS, that he a slimey scumbag would tell her, even as he destroys the lives of his wife and kids---is that the man she wants to give her heart to

Tell her that for now she will pay half of all bills pertaining to everything, and that includes all insurances-----cancel all joint CC's----take all money that would be yours, and place it in a private acct of your own

She is to take herself off of facebook, and any other social websites, and her phone is available to you 24/7.

This may be harsh---but harsh is the only thing that will wake her up, and remove her from Disneyland

When you finish your conversation with her, leave for a few hours---she has had plenty of time to reflect, on her mge, and its future---but she has been faced with no consequences, and no accountability---well now she gets to face her future----If that future includes a 3some---the mge is immediately going to D---If she wants to work things out then you will do your part, to make things work, as a 2some with NC, firmly in place

Unfortunately you are dealing with a situation where she is gonna have to dump him cold turkey---and she isn't gonna like that----but if she wants her mge, that is her only option----but I promise you---he will still be in her thoughts 24/7, that is just the way it is, and that is something both of you will need to deal with.

You tell her the ball is now in her court---she can either stay and work things out, or she can choose to start life all over again---as a single divorced woman-------and for now there is no lovey--dovey, and no mr nice guy, on your part, ----this whole process on your part must be extremely harsh---if you are not strong about the consequences, she will just wait you out, and resume with her lover, WAY, WAY UNDERGROUND


----------



## humanbecoming

Just jumping in here to say I'd be burning up the phone line trying to contact the wife. Even if you don't, he's going to be ****ting his pants knowing that it's only a matter of time before you reach her. Let him feel some of the stress that the phone ringing randomly is going to bring, knowing that he can't be there constantly, so eventually you will get through.


----------



## happyman64

Greg,

No matter what, keep up the pressure on both your wife and the OM.

Your wife might not be happy but there are mature ways of dealing with issues in a marriage.

An Affair is not one of them.

Get in contact with the OMW. It might take 2,3 or 4 attempts.

And you might still need to out her to her family.

No matter what expose and drag out all her crap into the light.

Keep following the teams response and you will get results.

HM64


----------



## ing

:iagree:
Exposure is your best bet. Move fast man.. Move fast.


----------



## Sbrown

Why havent you called her parents yet? I would have called the air line found the next flight home and demanded she be on it! It is time to man up.

You're plan b and she will only come home if she can not talk OM into leaving his wife.


----------



## Chaparral

Just a note, many,many, people are not facebook regulars even though they are on facebook. I haven't checked mine in two days, maybe three.


----------



## Greg40

I found an FB account of hers with the 2000 texts in. Which really is only a small amount of the contact that they have had.


She has severely fallen for this guy, him the same it seems.

Contacting his wife wont make a difference, he's going to leave her and the children.

I just got an email. She admits fault for everything but says it wont change anything - that she expects me to file on Monday and we'll amicably sort things out.

A case of the unrecoverable EA......I'm going to have to move on. 

There seems to be only a minute chance of rescue and to be honest, I don't think i want her back after reading their conversations.....it really has gone that far.


Do you have a moving on forum LOL


----------



## Sbrown

OK, it is CYA time. Pull half of all the money you two have in joint accounts. Cancel ALL joint credit cards NOW. Call her parents NOW! Time to go nuclear. If the cell phones are under your name cancel her phone NOW! Make OM support her.


----------



## warlock07

Not to rub it in right now but If she cheats with you, she will cheat on you. This was exactly how you met, right? The affair is like a deja vu but just you on the other side.

What exactly was she telling him in these message? Maybe you should expose to some members of the family(FIL, MIL, siblings) before she portrays you as an abuser in the marriage. Maybe tell the OM that this was how you both got together in he first place. And wish him good luck and hope she is worth his family and kids


----------



## SomedayDig

Yeah, Greg...there is a Separation/Divorce section here too for support.

Like I said before, everyone has a different limit on what they can take. Initially, you said texts/photos weren't a deal breaker. Until you SAW them. Now, it makes a difference. That's okay, man. You do what YOU need. Period.

Sorry this sh-t happened to ya, and I can only wish you luck as you move on.


EDIT to say: I agree with Warlock. Make sure every single person knows WHY you're divorcing her. Don't leave details out to "spare" anyone's feelings. She gets to live with her choices.


----------



## Greg40

Sbrown said:


> OK, it is CYA time. Pull half of all the money you two have in joint accounts. Cancel ALL joint credit cards NOW. Call her parents NOW! Time to go nuclear. If the cell phones are under your name cancel her phone NOW! Make OM support her.



I'll move some money etc but it really doesn't seem necessary.

If I post her email "which I might" she is incredibly sorry but she has made decisions and she going to stick with them.

She's offered to fully move out, give me the car etc etc Try to find someway to separate the business where we both get equal benefit.

She's taken full responsibility for her actions and owned up to the betrayal but nothing I can do will repair it when she gets back


At this point, the nuclear option seems redundant.....what it achieves will have no impact on the inevitable outcome apart from to make it 1000% harder for me to get over it and probably cost us a small fortune in the process.

I need a little time but Id like to walk away cleanly without complicating my life to such an extreme that we end up purposely trying to hurt each other and making some lawyers a lot of money.


----------



## Mike11

Greg40 said:


> I found an FB account of hers with the 2000 texts in. Which really is only a small amount of the contact that they have had.
> 
> 
> She has severely fallen for this guy, him the same it seems.
> 
> Contacting his wife wont make a difference, he's going to leave her and the children.
> 
> I just got an email. She admits fault for everything but says it wont change anything - that she expects me to file on Monday and we'll amicably sort things out.
> 
> A case of the unrecoverable EA......I'm going to have to move on.
> 
> There seems to be only a minute chance of rescue and to be honest, I don't think i want her back after reading their conversations.....it really has gone that far.
> 
> 
> Do you have a moving on forum LOL



Seriously? 

she never met him and fall for him and he for her?

Greg, let her go, she did you a big favor, she is childish an immature for an adult relationships, file and move on 
if she is un remoursfull and callus about it there is not much that you can do she is checked out 

I am willing tho bet she will get her WTFHID moment very soon 
Also it may as well that the OM may just BS'd your wife to think that he will drop the family but with all honesty I am not sure this will happen and your wife will find herself completely alone


----------



## ing

Greg40 said:


> I found an FB account of hers with the 2000 texts in. Which really is only a small amount of the contact that they have had.
> 
> 
> She has severely fallen for this guy, him the same it seems.
> 
> Contacting his wife wont make a difference, he's going to leave her and the children.
> 
> I just got an email. She admits fault for everything but says it wont change anything - that she expects me to file on Monday and we'll amicably sort things out.
> 
> A case of the unrecoverable EA......I'm going to have to move on.
> 
> There seems to be only a minute chance of rescue and to be honest, I don't think i want her back after reading their conversations.....it really has gone that far.
> 
> 
> Do you have a moving on forum LOL


First of all. I am really sorry you are here. 

This sort of email is really common. She is attempting to scare you into backing down.

He SAYS to her he is going to leave his wife and kids but guys rarely do that, he is telling her that to get in her pants.
EXPOSE HIM.

So.. I am assuming that she has "fallen in love". If you have no kids just let her go. Split the money. Divorce and move on.

This rubbish may last two years and at the end you are with someone who clearly has zero respect for you and there is little to bond you back together. 

You need to pull a hard 180 for yourself.
Do not talk about anything but the split.
Do not contact her
Do not call her. 
Do not email her.
Split the money
Go out. 
Eat well.


----------



## EleGirl

Well, I'm sorry to hear this. She seems to be taking quite a surgical stance on this.

Would you consider trying to work things out if she decided to ask to come back after she has more time to think it through?


----------



## warlock07

The nuclear plan isn't redundant. You can Do it in a respectful way.


----------



## SomedayDig

Greg40 said:


> I'll move some money etc but it really doesn't seem necessary.
> 
> *If I post her email "which I might" she is incredibly sorry but she has made decisions and she going to stick with them.
> 
> She's offered to fully move out, give me the car etc etc Try to find someway to separate the business where we both get equal benefit.
> 
> She's taken full responsibility for her actions and owned up to the betrayal but nothing I can do will repair it when she gets back*
> 
> 
> At this point, the nuclear option seems redundant.....what it achieves will have no impact on the inevitable outcome apart from to make it 1000% harder for me to get over it and probably cost us a small fortune in the process.
> 
> I need a little time but Id like to walk away cleanly without complicating my life to such an extreme that we end up purposely trying to hurt each other and making some lawyers a lot of money.


The fog is deep with this one young Skywalker.

Holy crap. She is seriously in the fog. Be ready though, cuz there might come a point when she's faced with signing the papers and moving stuff out of the house that she's gonna go BAM! Then, she's gonna pull the crying gig on ya. It's at that point you're going to HAVE to make sure you understand the 180.


----------



## Greg40

warlock07 said:


> Not to rub it in right now but If she cheats with you, she will cheat on you. This was exactly how you met, right? The affair is like a deja vu but just you on the other side.
> 
> What exactly was she telling him in these message? Maybe you should expose to some members of the family(FIL, MIL, siblings) before she portrays you as an abuser in the marriage. Maybe tell the OM that this was how you both got together in he first place. And wish him good luck and hope she is worth his family and kids


It certainly is deja vu....and if the OM falters, he will be in the same boat.....she's not high maintenance at all but, if you let your "game" slip for any period of time it seems......she can be turned by another.

The message where the standard hot and heavy stuff...talk of total devotion, love, lust, you name it....they were going through it.

They hadn't met, that's for sure and there were no plans to meet this week......there was however a plan for December.


I've been on the phone to my folks, getting some good old UK family support.


Now I just have to decide what to do...stay in the US, new state, go to the UK....kinda daunting really.

The OM also know this is how we got together, like me, it doesn't phase him....maybe he;s differ net but, I don't think he will be.


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> I found an FB account of hers with the 2000 texts in. Which really is only a small amount of the contact that they have had.
> 
> 
> She has severely fallen for this guy, him the same it seems.
> 
> Contacting his wife wont make a difference, he's going to leave her and the children.
> 
> I just got an email. She admits fault for everything but says it wont change anything - that she expects me to file on Monday and we'll amicably sort things out.
> 
> A case of the unrecoverable EA......I'm going to have to move on.
> 
> There seems to be only a minute chance of rescue and to be honest, I don't think i want her back after reading their conversations.....it really has gone that far.
> 
> 
> Do you have a moving on forum LOL


They have not met in person yet but he's leaving his wife and children for her?

You know affair partners make these kinds of statements/promises all the time. But he has to look his wife and children in the eye and tell them that he’s leaving. Not very likely to happen.


----------



## Malaise

Nuke her. Why let her get away with it. Tell her family,tell everyone that this is her choice,not yours. It may seem petty and spiteful to you but she should have some consequences to her actions. Let everyone know SHE did this to your marriage.


----------



## Greg40

Mike11 said:


> Seriously?
> 
> she never met him and fall for him and he for her?
> 
> Greg, let her go, she did you a big favor, she is childish an immature for an adult relationships, file and move on
> if she is un remoursfull and callus about it there is not much that you can do she is checked out
> 
> I am willing tho bet she will get her WTFHID moment very soon
> Also it may as well that the OM may just BS'd your wife to think that he will drop the family but with all honesty I am not sure this will happen and your wife will find herself completely alone



She's not un-remorseful...she know what she did was wrong....its not the first time "her new man" has arrived this way.

And yup. shes checked out for sure.

Agreed again on the WTFHID......I really think this will happen, probably within the year.


But even if it does, this has been quite the learnign curve and I'm somewhat amazed that I feel horrible about it.....and then good.

I'm not sure if that will continue when she turns up this week but for now, I have a few more days to get more head stronger.


----------



## SomedayDig

Greg. Make sure you get some sleep, man. Also take yourself out for a good dinner. Drink water.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to find out if the OM's wife is aware of all this. How far back have you traced this affair?


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> The fog is deep with this one young Skywalker.
> 
> Holy crap. She is seriously in the fog. Be ready though, cuz there might come a point when she's faced with signing the papers and moving stuff out of the house that she's gonna go BAM! Then, she's gonna pull the crying gig on ya. It's at that point you're going to HAVE to make sure you understand the 180.


She does get a deep fog Obi - wan.

I remember when we got together....after about 3 to 4 weeks online, we were in a similar situation. Her BF of the time tried to turn it around but, she had checked out and I was helping her all the way.



Yeah, I'm sure there are going to be tears during the process, both sides obviously. 


I think she's truly gone though and that because this will all happen prior to her and him meeting in real life, that she will manage just fine because that meet, is all she's thinking about right now.

Which in a way is good, she wont put up much of a fight on my demands when we dissolve everything.


----------



## Chaparral

Also, go to your MD, explain what is going on and he can prescribe some mild meds to help even things out. A counselor experienced with PTSD is also a must. Working out and weightlifting is also a great mood booster.

Good luck and prayers


----------



## Caribbean Man

Greg40 said:


> It certainly is deja vu....and if the OM falters, he will be in the same boat.....she's not high maintenance at all but, if you let your "game" slip for any period of time it seems......she can be turned by another.
> 
> The message where the standard hot and heavy stuff...talk of total devotion, love, lust, you name it....they were going through it.
> 
> They hadn't met, that's for sure and there were no plans to meet this week......there was however a plan for December.
> 
> 
> I've been on the phone to my folks, getting some good old UK family support.
> 
> 
> Now I just have to decide what to do...stay in the US, new state, go to the UK....kinda daunting really.
> 
> *The OM also know this is how we got together, like me, it doesn't phase him....maybe he;s differ net but, I don't think he will be.*


:iagree:

Gives real meaning to:

"...Only fools rush in where angels fear to tread...."


----------



## iheartlife

My husband told his AP they'd move to a major city where she could go to grad school and his co had an office.

So what happened on DD#1, just a few weeks after that? Yep, he chose me and the kids. 

I would not base my choices on ANYTHING said by the OM / OW. FB flirtations are a dime a dozen these days. Doesn't mean they go anywhere.

My H also thought she was the love of his life. Apparently once the infatuation wore off, that wasn't true either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

exposure will often destroy fantasies like sand castles at high tide


----------



## Mike11

Greg40 said:


> She's not un-remorseful...she know what she did was wrong....its not the first time "her new man" has arrived this way.
> 
> And yup. shes checked out for sure.
> 
> Agreed again on the WTFHID......I really think this will happen, probably within the year.
> 
> 
> But even if it does, this has been quite the learnign curve and I'm somewhat amazed that I feel horrible about it.....and then good.
> 
> I'm not sure if that will continue when she turns up this week but for now, I have a few more days to get more head stronger.


Greg
a remorseful spouse means that she will do everything in her power to correct what she has done and get back to the marriage, she is not remorseful, she is sorry, sorry that you Caught her, what she is saying to you is only for the purpose of easing her guilt, not true remorse.

It is one thing to "get her new man" like in your case (if I remember correctly you were both in relationships but not married) than to help break a family with young children, she is selfish beyond salvage and her moral banks seem to be completely depleted, this points to some of her character 
attributes, good for you that you don't have any children with her, that would have been complicated things way much worse

I think you should get to the indifference state ASAP, any other emotion with her will feed her ENs and will not help you at all, 

go hard 180 on her, I am willing to bet, as soon as she sees you are moving on, she will go turn back 100% on her attitude


----------



## Greg40

EleGirl said:


> They have not met in person yet but he's leaving his wife and children for her?
> 
> You know affair partners make these kinds of statements/promises all the time. But he has to look his wife and children in the eye and tell them that he’s leaving. Not very likely to happen.


yup, i remember her online when we first started chatting, she can hook a guy, no doubt about it. 

And you're totally right, hes got the hardest move to make but, he's going to do it. 

From the messages I read, he wants her very badly and she him. They've gone crazy deep in about six weeks.


----------



## Mike11

Greg40 said:


> yup, i remember her online when we first started chatting, she can hook a guy, no doubt about it.
> 
> And you're totally right, hes got the hardest move to make but, he's going to do it.
> 
> From the messages I read, he wants her very badly and she him. They've gone crazy deep in about six weeks.


Greg

May be, don't believe what he say, he said that to get in to her knickers, it may happen but I doubt it


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Greg40 said:


> I found an FB account of hers with the 2000 texts in. Which really is only a small amount of the contact that they have had.
> 
> 
> She has severely fallen for this guy, him the same it seems.
> 
> Contacting his wife wont make a difference, he's going to leave her and the children.
> 
> I just got an email. She admits fault for everything but says it wont change anything - that she expects me to file on Monday and we'll amicably sort things out.
> 
> A case of the unrecoverable EA......I'm going to have to move on.
> 
> There seems to be only a minute chance of rescue and to be honest, I don't think i want her back after reading their conversations.....it really has gone that far.
> 
> 
> Do you have a moving on forum LOL


Copy all the Facebook messages and save them on a thumb drive and in cyberspace. Then email them to her parents and his wife. Oh, and be sure to cc' your wife and the OM so they know that everyone knows. Time to go thermo-nuclear on their azzes.


(BTW, saying he's leaving his wife and kids and ACTUALLY doing so are two different things.)


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> yup, i remember her online when we first started chatting, she can hook a guy, no doubt about it.
> 
> And you're totally right, hes got the hardest move to make but, he's going to do it.
> 
> From the messages I read, he wants her very badly and she him. They've gone crazy deep in about six weeks.


I've seen people get this crazy deep online. Then they meet in person and there is nothing there. The fantasy does not translate into real life. There is no telling which way this will go in the end…only about 3% of all affairs last as long term relationships.


----------



## Greg40

EleGirl said:


> Well, I'm sorry to hear this. She seems to be taking quite a surgical stance on this.
> 
> Would you consider trying to work things out if she decided to ask to come back after she has more time to think it through?



I thought about that and if I hadn't read some of their conversations, yes.


Now though, I'm really better off making the split now, irrespective of whether second thoughts arise. 

If I don't do it now, and we reconcile instead, I know that there's always a chance that i'll be back here again.


----------



## Chaparral

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Copy all the Facebook messages and save them on a thumb drive and in cyberspace. Then email them to her parents and his wife. Oh, and be sure to cc' your wife and the OM so they know that everyone knows. Time to go thermo-nuclear on their azzes.
> 
> 
> (BTW, saying he's leaving his wife and kids and ACTUALLY doing so are two different things.)


Get a hold on yourself and do this now. It ain't over till its over. You just might save those kids their family.


----------



## Chaparral

You might be able to save thier family even if you can't/don't want to save your own. It certainly could help your karma.


----------



## SomedayDig

EleGirl said:


> I've seen people get this crazy deep online. Then they meet in person and there is nothing there.* The fantasy does not translate into real life.* There is no telling which way this will go in the end…only about 3% of all affairs last as long term relationships.


Exactly. The first time one of them farts, the rainbows will begin to fade.


----------



## Shaggy

Greg, 

Don't believe garbage written back and forth between cheaters. Cheaters lie to you, they also lie to each other, they lie to themselves.

Exposé the OM to his wife. When he hits the actual reality of loosing his family and paying child support, he more likely than not will run away fast.

Exposé to your wife's parents today. It's easy for your wife to continue in her fantasy when no one besides you is telling her to stop.


----------



## Greg40

ing said:


> First of all. I am really sorry you are here.
> 
> This sort of email is really common. She is attempting to scare you into backing down.
> 
> He SAYS to her he is going to leave his wife and kids but guys rarely do that, he is telling her that to get in her pants.
> EXPOSE HIM.
> 
> So.. I am assuming that she has "fallen in love". If you have no kids just let her go. Split the money. Divorce and move on.
> 
> This rubbish may last two years and at the end you are with someone who clearly has zero respect for you and there is little to bond you back together.
> 
> You need to pull a hard 180 for yourself.
> Do not talk about anything but the split.
> Do not contact her
> Do not call her.
> Do not email her.
> Split the money
> Go out.
> Eat well.



*"So.. I am assuming that she has "fallen in love". If you have no kids just let her go. Split the money. Divorce and move on"*


This is our situation, no kids, just 2 dogs.

So the only real and sensible option is to split, Div and move on.

And I want to do it quickly, without pain, complications, massive lawyer fees or anything that's going to prolong what is obviously inevitable.


I think they are both deadly serious about their long term intentions.........

......if its a pants move and he's caught her at a venerable time and she got hooked, well, that will be a real hard lesson for her.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Greg just looking at your time stamps and from what you've said, you have hardly slept at all in the last 36 hours. Add the huge ball of stress and it's easy to see that your mental state is not where it should be to make important decisions.

Get some rest, do your exposures, plan as if your are divorcing to protect yourself (seeing a lawyer and getting finances in order) and know that it takes time to divorce and you can reassess if the affair has been destroyed.

Take care of yourself first and foremost and the rest will be easier (well as easy as it can be that is)


----------



## Greg40

Mike11 said:


> Greg
> 
> May be, don't believe what he say, he said that to get in to her knickers, it may happen but I doubt it



Maybe.

it could be a really rude awakening but, there's a big difference between a pants move and what these two have been getting up to.

You never know though, at least I wont be here to witness it either way.


----------



## ing

If you haven't slept in 36 hours .. 
IGNORE WHAT I SAID!!

Get to bed. Lie in the middle of the bed. As soon as you can get to the Dr's to get some mild meds.

DO NOTHING until you have slept. 

thanks AR for pointing this out..


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> yup, i remember her online when we first started chatting, she can hook a guy, no doubt about it.
> 
> And you're totally right, hes got the hardest move to make but, he's going to do it.
> 
> From the messages I read, he wants her very badly and she him. They've gone crazy deep in about six weeks.


Infatuation only takes about 2 or 3 weeks between strangers, maybe less if they communicate more often. I fell for my husband in 2 weeks. (Didn't marry him until dating 4 years, but still fell totally in love that fast.)

Infatuation is a biological trick. It's skipping through daisies. Love is holding her hair back as she vomits in the toilet.

Even more than in my husband's case, their love is entirely untested. Not a single sliver of reality has shone down on them. Things like your sister hanging up on you and your mom crying about never seeing the grandkids casts a different perspective.

Not sure why you're giving up so easily over some FB messages. But it's your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Copy all the Facebook messages and save them on a thumb drive and in cyberspace. Then email them to her parents and his wife. Oh, and be sure to cc' your wife and the OM so they know that everyone knows. Time to go thermo-nuclear on their azzes.
> 
> 
> (BTW, saying he's leaving his wife and kids and ACTUALLY doing so are two different things.)



I'm probably not going to do that. As much fun as it would be lol.

It wont change a thing and I want to get out of this as cleanly and quickly as possible. 

I know she will co-operate 100% with that goal when she gets back. 

Not so much if i make things difficult or unpleasant. Which ultimately gives me a short term sense of satisfaction....but then ties me up in months of us bickering and her likely being very un-cooperative with every decision we have to make.


----------



## SomedayDig

SomedayDig said:


> Greg. Make sure you get some sleep, man. Also take yourself out for a good dinner. Drink water.





Almostrecovered said:


> Greg just looking at your time stamps and from what you've said, you have hardly slept at all in the last 36 hours. Add the huge ball of stress and it's easy to see that your mental state is not where it should be to make important decisions.
> 
> Get some rest, do your exposures, plan as if your are divorcing to protect yourself (seeing a lawyer and getting finances in order) and know that it takes time to divorce and you can reassess if the affair has been destroyed.
> 
> Take care of yourself first and foremost and the rest will be easier (well as easy as it can be that is)





ing said:


> If you haven't slept in 36 hours ..
> IGNORE WHAT I SAID!!
> 
> Get to bed. Lie in the middle of the bed. As soon as you can get to the Dr's to get some mild meds.
> 
> DO NOTHING until you have slept.
> 
> thanks AR for pointing this out..



Pssssst.....Greg..... ^^^^


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> Maybe.
> 
> it could be a really rude awakening but, there's a big difference between a pants move and what these two have been getting up to.
> 
> You never know though, at least I wont be here to witness it either way.


My exH had this sort of thing going with 5 women at one time. They all thought he was madly in love with them. He did meet 3 of them in person and had weekend flings with them.

Once I found all his hot emails professing all his love I emailed all of the emails to all of the women. That was the end of that. :rofl:


----------



## Greg40

iheartlife said:


> My husband told his AP they'd move to a major city where she could go to grad school and his co had an office.
> 
> So what happened on DD#1, just a few weeks after that? Yep, he chose me and the kids.
> 
> I would not base my choices on ANYTHING said by the OM / OW. FB flirtations are a dime a dozen these days. Doesn't mean they go anywhere.
> 
> My H also thought she was the love of his life. Apparently once the infatuation wore off, that wasn't true either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I can totally believe that.

Online flirtations move quick, everyone's a bit funnier, smarter, charming, etc etc.

And it can go bang just as quick.


I don't think what they've got going will go bang instantly but, I do think its going to go bang sooner rather than later.

I guess we'll see, they will have to hang out in the very same places that me and the wife do......we're still going to be in the same business.


Ugh...lol


----------



## Malaise

Greg40 said:


> I'm probably not going to do that. As much fun as it would be lol.
> 
> It wont change a thing and I want to get out of this as cleanly and quickly as possible.
> 
> I know she will co-operate 100% with that goal when she gets back.
> 
> Not so much if i make things difficult or unpleasant. Which ultimately gives me a short term sense of satisfaction....but then ties me up in months of us bickering and her likely being very un-cooperative with every decision we have to make.


I never understand this from the many times I've seen this. She gets to walk away with a pristine reputation,probably smearing you inthe process. Would she do this to you? If she does smear you to mutual friends and family would you care? If you don't care just let her go. If YOUR reputation matters then launch. Just my 2 cents


----------



## Greg40

Mike11 said:


> Greg
> a remorseful spouse means that she will do everything in her power to correct what she has done and get back to the marriage, she is not remorseful, she is sorry, sorry that you Caught her, what she is saying to you is only for the purpose of easing her guilt, not true remorse.
> 
> It is one thing to "get her new man" like in your case (if I remember correctly you were both in relationships but not married) than to help break a family with young children, she is selfish beyond salvage and her moral banks seem to be completely depleted, this points to some of her character
> attributes, good for you that you don't have any children with her, that would have been complicated things way much worse
> 
> I think you should get to the indifference state ASAP, any other emotion with her will feed her ENs and will not help you at all,
> 
> go hard 180 on her, I am willing to bet, as soon as she sees you are moving on, she will go turn back 100% on her attitude



Yeah, you're right, she isn't displaying remorse - I kinda lumped "being sorry" and remorse in the same boat. My bad.


And your right, its not like he's any better giving his kids up (if it truly happens) but, she really just goes after what she wants and damn the consequences. 


I do need to get to "indifference' I'm very far away right now but, I can already see that everything's going to be just fine, **** em, move on now.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Greg, were there problems in your marriage that you have not shared with us? You went from actively wanting to save your marriage to passively accepting that it's over in a flash. 

I think Almost Recovered is right - you should get some rest so that you are at your sharpest when you make these decisions.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> You might be able to save thier family even if you can't/don't want to save your own. It certainly could help your karma.




I emailed his wife last night.

Since then (and I've no idea if she has got the email yet) I'll try again.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Greg40 said:


> I'm probably not going to do that. As much fun as it would be lol.
> 
> It wont change a thing and I want to get out of this as cleanly and quickly as possible.
> 
> I know she will co-operate 100% with that goal when she gets back.
> 
> Not so much if i make things difficult or unpleasant. Which ultimately gives me a short term sense of satisfaction....but then ties me up in months of us bickering and her likely being very un-cooperative with every decision we have to make.


I understand your desire to be chivalrous.......maybe not but don't you want a little payback? You know a kind of perverse kick from sabotaging this thing? But that said, I think its best to cut your losses and be out of it lickety-split


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> I can totally believe that.
> 
> Online flirtations move quick, everyone's a bit funnier, smarter, charming, etc etc.
> 
> And it can go bang just as quick.
> 
> 
> I don't think what they've got going will go bang instantly but, I do think its going to go bang sooner rather than later.
> 
> I guess we'll see, they will have to hang out in the very same places that me and the wife do......we're still going to be in the same business.
> 
> 
> Ugh...lol


Yeah, but my husband's affair WASN'T online. The point is affairs are cotton candy. They are ice cream cones that melt in the sun. 

You need to sleep. You aren't operating at full brain power, and you need your wits about you now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

Shaggy said:


> Greg,
> 
> Don't believe garbage written back and forth between cheaters. Cheaters lie to you, they also lie to each other, they lie to themselves.
> 
> Exposé the OM to his wife. When he hits the actual reality of loosing his family and paying child support, he more likely than not will run away fast.
> 
> Exposé to your wife's parents today. It's easy for your wife to continue in her fantasy when no one besides you is telling her to stop.



Before reading their messages, I would have written to wife's parents, shes there as we speak it might have helped.


But after reading them.....I don't want her back. Just the clean break.



At the moment, even though a somewhat final hammer email fell only a few hours ago....I don't feel as sad as i thought I would. 

Maybe that will change when she comes back from her trip and we have to start splitting stuff up in real time but, as for her fantasy world right now, she's welcome to it.


----------



## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> My exH had this sort of thing going with 5 women at one time. They all thought he was madly in love with them. He did meet 3 of them in person and had weekend flings with them.
> 
> Once I found all his hot emails professing all his love I emailed all of the emails to all of the women. That was the end of that. :rofl:


There is an article in Mens Health, last Oct i think, written by a jerk that had 7 "online wives" plus a wife at home that was divorcing him. He thought it was cool but reading the article you could see how pathetic and cursed he really was.

@ Greg, this isn't just about you, their are kids invloved. Do the right thing this time and use everything in your power to break this nightmare up. Quit just thinking of you. Thats how you got into this mess.


----------



## ing

:cone4:


*sleep*


:cone4:
This place is open 24x7


----------



## Greg40

ing said:


> If you haven't slept in 36 hours ..
> IGNORE WHAT I SAID!!
> 
> Get to bed. Lie in the middle of the bed. As soon as you can get to the Dr's to get some mild meds.
> 
> DO NOTHING until you have slept.
> 
> thanks AR for pointing this out..



I'll try to sleep, I def got a few hours earlier.


----------



## Chaparral

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> I understand your desire to be chivalrous.......maybe not but don't you want a little payback? You know a kind of perverse kick from sabotaging this thing? But that said, I think its best to cut your losses and be out of it lickety-split


Chivalrous? I certainly don't see standing back and letting his wife destroy a family with two kids in it chivalrous. I would go with complicit. Laying down and letting the Karma bus run over you isn't chivalrous either. Thats yellow, but I'm from a previous generation. LOL  Maybe she sees more real life fight in the OM instead of the kind of fight she sees on X_BOX 360.


----------



## Greg40

iheartlife said:


> Infatuation only takes about 2 or 3 weeks between strangers, maybe less if they communicate more often. I fell for my husband in 2 weeks. (Didn't marry him until dating 4 years, but still fell totally in love that fast.)
> 
> Infatuation is a biological trick. It's skipping through daisies. Love is holding her hair back as she vomits in the toilet.
> 
> Even more than in my husband's case, their love is entirely untested. Not a single sliver of reality has shone down on them. Things like your sister hanging up on you and your mom crying about never seeing the grandkids casts a different perspective.
> 
> Not sure why you're giving up so easily over some FB messages. But it's your life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I agree for sure, with the daises, the vomiting. 

However, currently, she is skipping in the daises, in a fog, with a smile to rival any mental patient.


I've got very little to work with, they'll keep talking, end up going PA, while I'm single handed trying to bail the boat out with a leaky bucket.

I am still in the dark stage - so when she comes back on Tuesday, who knows what would have happened. 

But then its a case of.....do you really want her back after what she did and what you read.

As I sit right now, it would be a no .


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> Pssssst.....Greg..... ^^^^



I'm going, honest but, I'm so wide awake lol


----------



## Shaggy

Find the OM home address etc. if he works from home he may have posted that, or try spokeo. Etc.

Print what you have a send it to his wife requiring her signature only to receive.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg you need some tough love here. Man the F up man. Even if you're done and want nothing to do with this relationship anymore you have still been majorly affected. Exposing your wife and exposing this guy to his wife is completely warranted. Blow up their world and then if you wish walk away whistling dixie. This guy is going to just walk away from his wife and children with zero consequences? I think not and it's best for his poor wife to know what's going on as soon as possible.


----------



## EleGirl

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Greg you need some tough love here. Man the F up man. Even if you're done and want nothing to do with this relationship anymore you have still been majorly affected. Exposing your wife and exposing this guy to his wife is completely warranted. Blow up their world and then if you wish walk away whistling dixie. This guy is going to just walk away from his wife and children with zero consequences? I think not and it's best for his poor wife to know what's going on as soon as possible.


Greg is running on 36 hours with no sleep now. 

We need to just let him get some rest. After that he can decide what kind of fight he does or does not want to fight.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Greg you need some tough love here. Man the F up man. Even if you're done and want nothing to do with this relationship anymore you have still been majorly affected. Exposing your wife and exposing this guy to his wife is completely warranted. Blow up their world and then if you wish walk away whistling dixie. This guy is going to just walk away from his wife and children with zero consequences? I think not and it's best for his poor wife to know what's going on as soon as possible.


Maybe Greg's detached and wants out as much as his wife. 




Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Greg, were there problems in your marriage that you have not shared with us? You went from actively wanting to save your marriage to passively accepting that it's over in a flash.


----------



## EleGirl

Greg...

Go to bed! Yes you are wired but you will lose that until you get away from the monitor.

We will all be here when you wake up.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Greg40 said:


> I'm going, honest but, I'm so wide awake lol


Advil PM


----------



## Almostrecovered

EleGirl said:


> Greg is running on 36 hours with no sleep now.


Not no sleep but based on time stamps and what he stated earlier about being up for 20 hours, he's had maybe 3-4 hours tops


----------



## jnj express

The other guy, may talk about leaving, and tell your wife he is gonna go---but when push comes to shove, it ain't that easy---and if he is into his kids, at that point in time, when he decides to wreck their lives, he may re-think what he is doing---but if you do get thru to his wife---he may not have a choice---either

In all actuality, none of you really know anything about your so called wife's lover---in real time--he may be a total sh*t, but that will be something your so called wife gets to find out and deal with

As to your wife---she did this, to hook up with you, and now she does it to blow you off---but in all reality with your so called wife---she is not a good person---when she hooked you it was just you, in this instance, she is wrecking the lives of innocent children, who did nothing to deserve, what is coming at them, and your so called wife doesn't even give a sh*t----that in itself, alone, should make leaving her easier---she is a bad piece of work!!!!!!!!


----------



## Greg40

Malaise said:


> I never understand this from the many times I've seen this. She gets to walk away with a pristine reputation,probably smearing you inthe process. Would she do this to you? If she does smear you to mutual friends and family would you care? If you don't care just let her go. If YOUR reputation matters then launch. Just my 2 cents


My situation regarding our mutual friends and family is that we don't really have any that would concern me. They're all in the UK.

I guess that's why I've seemed nonchalant about that aspect.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

He hasn't even had the chance to see or talk about anything with his wife in person yet. It's as clear as day his wife is in a complete fog and she doesn't have a clear thought in her head. The reality of a relationship with this OM is a guy with an ex and children. After the alimony and child support I'd like to see how a guy who doesn't appear to make much money is going to take care of your wife.


----------



## keko

Nuke them. Exposé far and wide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Om is going to throw ww under the bus when he's exposed.


----------



## iheartlife

Researching the OM is another thing to do. There's a thread on the boards where the OM has a domestic violence charge. A few months back another poster turned up enough dirt to blow that affair up.

Was she in another relationship when you two met up? Is this her m.o.?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Greg you need some tough love here. Man the F up man. Even if you're done and want nothing to do with this relationship anymore you have still been majorly affected. Exposing your wife and exposing this guy to his wife is completely warranted. Blow up their world and then if you wish walk away whistling dixie. This guy is going to just walk away from his wife and children with zero consequences? I think not and it's best for his poor wife to know what's going on as soon as possible.



I've got a few ways of looking at this. I can try and crash the party more effectively. 

It all stops. She reconsiders.

Great, I've got a very unhappy wife that has cheated on me.

or

She wont re-consider and because I went nuclear she makes the divide of our life an absolute nightmare.

I'm accepting of the circumstance, she was cheating, she wants to leave.

Now, I also want to leave because after reading their conversations, theres nothing here for me, she's not the wife I married.

The best i can do right now is head for indifference, which would be awesome. I've been there before. I can also move on without making the split of our life and assets unbearable too.

It seems like the best play right now. and one that I'm quickly becoming accustomed to.


----------



## Greg40

I'm taking the hints and going to bed.

You guys have truly been awesome


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg40 said:


> I've got a few ways of looking at this. I can try and crash the party more effectively.
> 
> It all stops. She reconsiders.
> 
> Great, I've got a very unhappy wife that has cheated on me.
> 
> or
> 
> She wont re-consider and because I went nuclear she makes the divide of our life an absolute nightmare.
> 
> I'm accepting of the circumstance, she was cheating, she wants to leave.
> 
> Now, I also want to leave because after reading their conversations, theres nothing here for me, she's not the wife I married.
> 
> The best i can do right now is head for indifference, which would be awesome. I've been there before. I can also move on without making the split of our life and assets unbearable too.
> 
> It seems like the best play right now. and one that I'm quickly becoming accustomed to.



She's a serial cheater who would be smart to not make the split anymore difficult than it has to be regardless of whether you go nuclear or not. All the more reason as well to visit a lawyer as soon as tomorrow and get things in motion.


----------



## Sbrown

While you may play fair with the split, most women don't. I'm betting there are more than one guy on here wishing he would have protected his assets. They will clean you out and max those cc's out just for spite! I could never roll that dice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Greg40 said:


> Her work company is on the east coast, friends and family too.
> 
> 
> 
> We live in the Mid west. She telecommutes to work.
> 
> Every now and then, there will be a reason to physically have to got back to the EC (like this relatives wedding.
> 
> Once people know you're going back, they want you to drop in. There is no "I'm back for 5 days but, no I'm not going to come see you boss/grandma/mum -dad/Hs girlfriends" people get offended lol.


I get the situation. What I can't fathom is how that relates to the marriage in priority. Clearly the marriage is doen the list of all sorts of other things. Like offending someone ... LOL.


----------



## Entropy3000

Greg40 said:


> I found an FB account of hers with the 2000 texts in. Which really is only a small amount of the contact that they have had.
> 
> 
> She has severely fallen for this guy, him the same it seems.
> 
> Contacting his wife wont make a difference, he's going to leave her and the children.
> 
> I just got an email. She admits fault for everything but says it wont change anything - that she expects me to file on Monday and we'll amicably sort things out.
> 
> A case of the unrecoverable EA......I'm going to have to move on.
> 
> There seems to be only a minute chance of rescue and to be honest, I don't think i want her back after reading their conversations.....it really has gone that far.
> 
> 
> Do you have a moving on forum LOL


So this is how she lives her life. She did it with you and now she is doing it with some other guy. 

She is going to leave her marriage for someone she has never met!? UFB. Yes I know it happens. Craziness. 

Down the road she will do it to this guy.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Entropy3000 said:


> So this is how she lives her life. She did it with you and now she is doing it with some other guy.
> 
> She is going to leave her marriage for someone she has never met!? UFB. Yes I know it happens. Craziness.
> 
> Down the road she will do it to this guy.


It happens sure but I don't believe for a second that they haven't met before.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg40 said:


> I've got a few ways of looking at this. I can try and crash the party more effectively.
> 
> It all stops. She reconsiders.
> 
> Great, I've got a very unhappy wife that has cheated on me.
> 
> or
> 
> She wont re-consider and because I went nuclear she makes the divide of our life an absolute nightmare.
> 
> I'm accepting of the circumstance, she was cheating, she wants to leave.
> 
> Now, I also want to leave because after reading their conversations, theres nothing here for me, she's not the wife I married.
> 
> The best i can do right now is head for indifference, which would be awesome. I've been there before. I can also move on without making the split of our life and assets unbearable too.
> 
> It seems like the best play right now. and one that I'm quickly becoming accustomed to.


The she wants to leave it all the beginnings of the blame shifting. Next you will get the I love you but I'm not in love with you. This will be followed by how unhappy she has been for the last several years. It's all justification for having an affair because someone (especially woman) don't want to think of themselves as this type of person. You get painted as the bad guy who neglected the marriage and forced her to do this. 

Don't let it happen because I'll bet anything this is how the script will play out.


----------



## member2012

Greg40 said:


> I've got a few ways of looking at this. I can try and crash the party more effectively.
> 
> It all stops. She reconsiders.
> 
> Great, I've got a very unhappy wife that has cheated on me.
> 
> or
> 
> She wont re-consider and because I went nuclear she makes the divide of our life an absolute nightmare.
> 
> I'm accepting of the circumstance, she was cheating, she wants to leave.
> 
> Now, I also want to leave because after reading their conversations, theres nothing here for me, she's not the wife I married.
> 
> The best i can do right now is head for indifference, which would be awesome. I've been there before. I can also move on without making the split of our life and assets unbearable too.
> 
> It seems like the best play right now. and one that I'm quickly becoming accustomed to.




She will be really mad that you went nuclear and told everybody, and she will tell you that you have no chance now of making it work with her because of that. 

Most likely she will be mad for a couple of days, but then she will probably turn around and say she understands why you told everybody and will make herself somewhat available to work it out with you.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> What should it say.
> 
> something like:
> 
> I'm writing from my wife's account, she had an emotional affair with XXXXX over xyz months.
> 
> 
> I only found out a few days ago. I'm furious at both my wife's and your husbands actions. She says she might be in love with him, I do not know if this is reciprocated
> 
> If you wish to see proof I have the phone records.
> 
> If you wish to talk contact me here :
> 
> 
> does that cover it ?


I would say:

Dear Mrs. XXX, 

I have recently learned that your husband and my wife are having at least an EA. I am not sure of the extent of the relationship, because of something that occurred this weekend (This will spike interest). I noticed our spouses had been communicating with each other after they met on a social blog. Soon after they became FB friends. I grew concerned after my wife told me several weeks ago that we were having problems in our relationship, so I reviewed our phone bill and noticed she had been talking to your husband almost every day over the last 6 weeks. So far there have been xxx number of minutes of phone conversations and xxx number of texts exchanged. Please see the attached scans of my phone bill. I realize you live 1000 miles away and may find this hard to believe but our spouses may have taken their EA to a PA this weekend. Please call me or email me @ so I can fill you in on everything I know.

Regards, 


XXX


----------



## Chaparral

Hope he gets his mojo(balls) back after some sleep. Right now he is trying to crawl under a rock. Not that I don't feel for him, but he seems to have quickly rolled over.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> I found an FB account of hers with the 2000 texts in. Which really is only a small amount of the contact that they have had.
> 
> 
> She has severely fallen for this guy, him the same it seems.
> 
> Contacting his wife wont make a difference, he's going to leave her and the children.
> 
> I just got an email. She admits fault for everything but says it wont change anything - that she expects me to file on Monday and we'll amicably sort things out.
> 
> A case of the unrecoverable EA......I'm going to have to move on.
> 
> There seems to be only a minute chance of rescue and to be honest, I don't think i want her back after reading their conversations.....it really has gone that far.
> 
> 
> Do you have a moving on forum LOL


Print out a hard copy of her FB messages for your records.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

He's not going to leave his wife. That I can assure you. He is going to do damage control and work it out. Your wife thinks this is going to work out for her, but it's not. Once the OM has the decision to make, he will stay with his family. Your wife will then be lonely, knowing she screwed everything up with you, her, and the OM. within a few months, if not less, she will come begging for you to take her back. 

I think you are just trying to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario, but I believe you love your wife and as difficult as it was to see those FB messages, you would still consider R. However, You CANNOT give in quickly. Let her beg you for at least a month after she realizes there is no chance with the OM. after that, you can talk about R and transparent, etc. You still can't let her move back in. You'll need to date her again...Oh, and make her pay for dinner.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> I'm probably not going to do that. As much fun as it would be lol.
> 
> It wont change a thing and I want to get out of this as cleanly and quickly as possible.
> 
> I know she will co-operate 100% with that goal when she gets back.
> 
> Not so much if i make things difficult or unpleasant. Which ultimately gives me a short term sense of satisfaction....but then ties me up in months of us bickering and her likely being very un-cooperative with every decision we have to make.


The OMW deserves to know. It will also be the point where he dropkicks your wife and she is devastated. It will be the best thing you can do for every one including yourself. 

I would not email her parents unless I planned on leaving forever.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> Before reading their messages, I would have written to wife's parents, shes there as we speak it might have helped.
> 
> 
> But after reading them.....I don't want her back. Just the clean break.
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, even though a somewhat final hammer email fell only a few hours ago....I don't feel as sad as i thought I would.
> 
> Maybe that will change when she comes back from her trip and we have to start splitting stuff up in real time but, as for her fantasy world right now, she's welcome to it.


What is it in the emails that makes you not want her. It is expected she would say things like, " I want to make love to you. I Love you. I am out of love with my husband. You are my soul mate, etc." what is so bad that an R is out of the question?


----------



## lordmayhem

lifeisnotsogood said:


> Print out a hard copy of her FB messages for your records.


 *Fchat*

Download Fchat 1.20 Free Trial - A program that will search and recover or capture live Facebook chat on your computer. - Softpedia










And if they Skyped:

*SkypeLogView v1.36 - Skype Log Viewer (.dbb and main.db files)*

Skype Logs Reader/Viewer (.dbb and main.db files)










And it's free


----------



## warlock07

The attacks are a little unwarranted.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I saw that the OP tried to equate his situation for when he first met his wife to this experience he is going through today. However, there is a huge difference between a single person cheating on her BF with another single person and a married wife cheating on her husband with another married man who happens to have 2 kids. These are vastly different circumstances, and if the OP's wife truly has an MO of doing this, it won't hold up this go around. The blowback is going to be significant if they wife and the OM do end up together. 

I truly don't know what the best play here is because I think there is a fine line between the OP having to save his wife from herself vs the OP's wife is rationally checking out of this marriage. Falling madly in love in a mere 6 weeks really doesn't happen. They may think they're in love but neither actually has a friggin clue as to whether they truly are in love.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Plan 9 from OS said:


> * However, there is a huge difference between a single person cheating on her BF* with another single person and a married wife cheating on her husband with another married man who happens to have 2 kids.


Since when did women having boyfriends become single? :scratchhead: Honestly I see no difference except a legal document being signed in case of the latter and all the good stuff that accompanies "till death do us part".


----------



## Entropy3000

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> Since when did women having boyfriends become single? :scratchhead: Honestly I see no difference except a legal document being signed in case of the latter and all the good stuff that accompanies "till death do us part".


Being married is a level of commitment above just living together. Getting that legal document is an outward recognition of this level of commitment.

So yeah I think it is a deeper betrayal because it involved two married parties. That said I do not get having children, buying homes and not getting married. But that is just me.

Having a boy friend is an incredible shade of gray. Sure cheating in a LTR is very bad indeed. But if the couple could not commit to marry then how deep is that commitment?


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Entropy3000 said:


> Being married is a level of commitment above just living together. Getting that legal document is an* outward recognition of this level of commitment*.
> 
> So yeah I think it is a deeper betrayal becuase it involved two married parties. That said I do not get having children, buying homes and not getting married. But that is just me.
> 
> Having a boy friend is an incredible shade of gray. Sure cheating in a LTR is very bad indeed. But if the couple could not commit to marry then how deep is that commitment?


I think commitment should be between two people and not two people and the world at large. But thats just me. 

Maybe the ex bf knew this one wasn't a keeper, maybe he was waiting to propose when she left him for OP. 

The emotional effects are pretty much the same I think. But adding kids and financial problems into the fray would no doubt make it harder for the married ones but I don't see any difference apart from that.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

lifeisnotsogood said:


> What is it in the emails that makes you not want her. It is expected she would say things like, " I want to make love to you. I Love you. I am out of love with my husband. You are my soul mate, etc." what is so bad that an R is out of the question?


OP is in shock at what they said to each other. I've been where he is after ready over 200 pages of explicit email and FB communications between my ex and OM. It's one of the most devastating things I've ever endured. She said things to him such as: 'You have the perfect dik'; 'I want to drink your kum', etc.

(I damn near triggered just typing that.)


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> I think commitment should be between two people and not two people and the world at large. But thats just me.


Kitty, if it was that simple then do we equate teenagers who are dating in that comparison. (To married people, that is.)


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

> Originally Posted by lifeisnotsogood
> What is it in the emails that makes you not want her. It is expected she would say things like, " I want to make love to you. I Love you. I am out of love with my husband. You are my soul mate, etc." what is so bad that an R is out of the question?





Count of Monte Cristo said:


> OP is in shock at what they said to each other. I've been where he is after ready over 200 pages of explicit email and FB communications between my ex and OM. It's one of the most devastating things I've ever endured. She said things to him such as: 'You have the perfect dik'; 'I want to drink your kum', etc.
> 
> (I damn near triggered just typing that.)





an example of how differently men and women view the finer details of those emails


----------



## Entropy3000

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> I think commitment should be between two people and not two people and the world at large. But thats just me.
> 
> Maybe the ex bf knew this one wasn't a keeper, maybe he was waiting to propose when she left him for OP.
> 
> The emotional effects are pretty much the same I think. But adding kids and financial problems into the fray would no doubt make it harder for the married ones but I don't see any difference apart from that.


Wow. It takes a higher level of commitment to make the step into marriage. Having just a GF / BF means you can break up over a weekend and have a new GF / BF the next day. In a marriage that would be cheating. 

The ex BF never full committed and married her. Or she never fully commited. The "until death do us part", is kinda the point with getting married. Havign a partnership that the world at large must respect is very important.

Being husband and wife is a bigger deal than BF / GF.

But whatever works for you.

The fact this other married man is cheating with a married woman is a big deal. A bigger betrayal. he has children. That matters big time.

BF / GF can easily just be FWBs.


----------



## Entropy3000

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Kitty, if it was that simple then do we equate teenagers who are dating in that comparison. (To married people, that is.)


Exactly.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Kitty, if it was that simple then do we equate teenagers who are dating in that comparison. (To married people, that is.)


I'm not comparing teenage relationships to mature ones. If a man and a woman were content and blissfully in love for over 5 years and the couple had kids without being married and then one of them cheated. I think the emotional blow would be the same. But its definitely harder to walk away from a marriage due to the legal hassles and the money one stands to lose


----------



## Entropy3000

lifeisnotsogood said:


> What is it in the emails that makes you not want her. It is expected she would say things like, " I want to make love to you. I Love you. I am out of love with my husband. You are my soul mate, etc." what is so bad that an R is out of the question?


This would be a deal breaker for me for sure.

He gave her a chance and she chose the OM. What don't you get here?.

Why should he want to R? Why should he be her second choice?


----------



## Entropy3000

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> I'm not comparing teenage relationships to mature ones. If a man and a woman were content and blissfully in love for over 5 years and the couple had kids and then one of them cheated. I think the emotional blow would be the same. But its definitely harder to walk away from a marriage due to the legal hassles and the money one stands to lose


And why in the world would parents of children not get married?

I am supposing that in some countries this is done for financial reasons. Like the government providing for those children if the woman is not married.

Living together is fine. However I question those having children and yet not will to commit to their partner ... legally.

But again betrayal is bad. But marriage takes a bunch of the gray away.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Well i married my wife when my son was 7 months old. But thats an old story. Some do some don't. But I think laws have been framed in such a way that men get fvcked in divorce. And thus its a bigger leap for a man, and I can understand hesitation on the man's part to get anything down on paper.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> an example of how differently men and women view the finer details of those emails


Many men feel that their wife should be 100% commited to them and them only. Go figure.

Having been in an EA myself emotionally bonding can happen. However she crossed a big line when she did the pictures and if the emails were sexual in nature it is no longer just an emotional bond. It has moved to cheating.

If she had shown remorse and wanted to cut this guy from her life he may have view the emails in a different light. Who knows. That said I can see that the emails would help him realize what his boundaries are. She crossed them.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> Well i married my wife when my son was 7 months old. But thats an old story. Some do some don't. But I think laws have been framed in such a way that men get fvcked in divorce. And thus its a bigger leap for a man, and I can understand hesitation on the man's part to get anything down on paper.


Yes indeed. I would not get married these days without a pre-nup.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Here's hoping hes getting some sleep since he hasn't posted since this morning
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

Entropy3000 said:


> I get the situation. What I can't fathom is how that relates to the marriage in priority. Clearly the marriage is doen the list of all sorts of other things. Like offending someone ... LOL.


Its not a good sign is it.

At first I thought it was, you know. 

Ok, I rationalized, she can't leave mid wedding and she's literally around the corner from her Mom (who she has a very good relationship with) . She's shaving 2 days off the trip, its a good sign.

....... 


Since then, I found and read the conversations. 

And received an email basically saying, its over. File on Monday, I wont do anything to stop you and its all my fault. You can have anything you want and I will leave the house.

And i thought, ummmm wow, why did she even bother leaving two days early.

I can assure you, it isn't to come back and sort things out.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Looks like an exit affair to me.

In which case, you might want to do it as cleanly as possible and not go thermo-nuclear. This seems to be her MO, start a new relationship with someone else before current relationship is over with.


----------



## Shaggy

You havent consider the other way this plays out:

You say nothing and she takes it PA, he refuses to leave his wife and kids, she comes back and falsely begs for another chance.

You give it to her but you dont give any consequences in turn she pulls the same stuff later down the road.


----------



## Greg40

I am going to post the email she sent yesterday.

She sent this after id gone dark for a number of hours and had not answered her phone calls or emails.


I was in the process of reading the private conversations with him thinking....damn, they are in real deep.


Then this landed - I've posted it because I know people might think I've given up easily but the combination of her refusal to give him up when I first mentioned Divorce, the intensity of those recently found private conversations and this email......well, she isnt look to reconcile that I can tell you.

_*I am writing this by email since I doubt you will ever answer the phone again. I know that you have hackd into all my accounts and, knowing what was in them, I don't expect you to want to talk to me for a long time, if ever. 

I know you and I both understand the gravity of the situation and how far it has gone emotionally. Obviously I expect you to file for divorce on Monday. I know I would if the roles were reversed. I can't take anything back but I can tell you that i am very, very sorry for hurting you the way I have and for not having the courage to ask for a divorce and be more honest with you. I will ALWAYS deeply regret causing you this pain and betraying you. 

You were absolutely right when you said you have been a good husband. You have. I just don't know if we are the right people to be married to each other. I have come to realize that i need things that you are unable to or unwilling to give and that doesn't make you a bad person or bad husband, but the wider this gulf has gotten, the more resentful and sneaky and reckless I have become. That is not who I am at my core and certainly not what you deserve.

I have no reason to lie to you at this point, so know that i am telling the truth when I say that i have never been physically intimate with anybody outside of our marriage. Never even considered it until this last year. I swing from being intensely unhappy to just satisfied with the status quo and that is no way to live. Neither of us is getting any younger and I don't want to waste any more of your time that you can spend living a life greater than ours with a woman better than me. 

I know there are a lot of sticky things about us splitting up... the business being the major one. We have both contributed to building this and I see no reason for us to stop being business partners on what will probably be a silent basis. Obviously that's up to you. 

Obviously I should be the one to move out. It will probably take me a few days to find somewhere I can go with the dogs. The car should also go with you. I will find something else.

I know this is probably not possible at this point due to your completely warranted anger, but I hope we can keep this amicable and find a way to not cause each other anymore pain than we already have. 

I hope you got my email about the dogs. Please drop them off at ******** if you are unwilling or unable to take care of them until Tuesday. Either way, let me know what you decide.

You want want to hear this and probably don't want to believe this but if you have seem my Facebook messages then you probably know I have even told him this: I love you and you are my bet friend who I have now lost. I am so so so sorry. I will never be able to truly express that to you properly. *_


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

That is some serious fog.


----------



## Almostrecovered

She's in lala fantasy land and rewriting the real truth of how she felt about the marriage. Them endorphins are pretty powerful stuff, it really would serve you well to expose. (and her, it's doubtful OM will really leave his wife after she's told)


----------



## warlock07

> I don't expect you to want to talk to me for a long time, if ever.


She got that part right. And why would want a liar, cheater and a backstabber as a business partner. 

Ask her to have some class and not go around shacking with with married guys and destroying families. Is this what she ended up at 40 ? Having affairs with married men ? 

She realized that her account was accessed and is on the counter offensive. Let her run in the fog. Good for you. You should get a good separation while she is in the lala land.


----------



## Mike11

Greg40 said:


> I am going to post the email she sent yesterday.
> 
> She sent this after id gone dark for a number of hours and had not answered her phone calls or emails.
> 
> 
> I was in the process of reading the private conversations with him thinking....damn, they are in real deep.
> 
> 
> Then this landed - I've posted it because I know people might think I've given up easily but the combination of her refusal to give him up when I first mentioned Divorce, the intensity of those recently found private conversations and this email......well, she isnt look to reconcile that I can tell you.
> 
> _*I am writing this by email since I doubt you will ever answer the phone again. I know that you have hackd into all my accounts and, knowing what was in them, I don't expect you to want to talk to me for a long time, if ever.
> 
> I know you and I both understand the gravity of the situation and how far it has gone emotionally. Obviously I expect you to file for divorce on Monday. I know I would if the roles were reversed. I can't take anything back but I can tell you that i am very, very sorry for hurting you the way I have and for not having the courage to ask for a divorce and be more honest with you. I will ALWAYS deeply regret causing you this pain and betraying you.
> 
> You were absolutely right when you said you have been a good husband. You have. I just don't know if we are the right people to be married to each other. I have come to realize that i need things that you are unable to or unwilling to give and that doesn't make you a bad person or bad husband, but the wider this gulf has gotten, the more resentful and sneaky and reckless I have become. That is not who I am at my core and certainly not what you deserve.
> 
> I have no reason to lie to you at this point, so know that i am telling the truth when I say that i have never been physically intimate with anybody outside of our marriage. Never even considered it until this last year. I swing from being intensely unhappy to just satisfied with the status quo and that is no way to live. Neither of us is getting any younger and I don't want to waste any more of your time that you can spend living a life greater than ours with a woman better than me.
> 
> I know there are a lot of sticky things about us splitting up... the business being the major one. We have both contributed to building this and I see no reason for us to stop being business partners on what will probably be a silent basis. Obviously that's up to you.
> 
> Obviously I should be the one to move out. It will probably take me a few days to find somewhere I can go with the dogs. The car should also go with you. I will find something else.
> 
> I know this is probably not possible at this point due to your completely warranted anger, but I hope we can keep this amicable and find a way to not cause each other anymore pain than we already have.
> 
> I hope you got my email about the dogs. Please drop them off at ******** if you are unwilling or unable to take care of them until Tuesday. Either way, let me know what you decide.
> 
> You want want to hear this and probably don't want to believe this but if you have seem my Facebook messages then you probably know I have even told him this: I love you and you are my bet friend who I have now lost. I am so so so sorry. I will never be able to truly express that to you properly. *_



Greg 

let her go 

But what I can say is, she is in for a very very rude awakening, 
This is something that someone who is very deep in the affair fog will write and seem to already cashed all her chips on the OM, honestly I doubt he will leave his family for her and even if he will, he will not stay away from his kids, she is in for a huge let down to my opinion 

You on the other hand, just let her go, I am willing to bet she will run back as soon as she will find out he will not leave his wife and kids for her, you can do much better 

you seem like a decent bloke you will find better then her

Say strong mate


----------



## Wazza

Greg40 said:


> I am going to post the email she sent yesterday.
> 
> She sent this after id gone dark for a number of hours and had not answered her phone calls or emails.
> 
> 
> I was in the process of reading the private conversations with him thinking....damn, they are in real deep.
> 
> 
> Then this landed - I've posted it because I know people might think I've given up easily but the combination of her refusal to give him up when I first mentioned Divorce, the intensity of those recently found private conversations and this email......well, she isnt look to reconcile that I can tell you.
> 
> _*I am writing this by email since I doubt you will ever answer the phone again. I know that you have hackd into all my accounts and, knowing what was in them, I don't expect you to want to talk to me for a long time, if ever.
> 
> I know you and I both understand the gravity of the situation and how far it has gone emotionally. Obviously I expect you to file for divorce on Monday. I know I would if the roles were reversed. I can't take anything back but I can tell you that i am very, very sorry for hurting you the way I have and for not having the courage to ask for a divorce and be more honest with you. I will ALWAYS deeply regret causing you this pain and betraying you.
> 
> You were absolutely right when you said you have been a good husband. You have. I just don't know if we are the right people to be married to each other. I have come to realize that i need things that you are unable to or unwilling to give and that doesn't make you a bad person or bad husband, but the wider this gulf has gotten, the more resentful and sneaky and reckless I have become. That is not who I am at my core and certainly not what you deserve.
> 
> I have no reason to lie to you at this point, so know that i am telling the truth when I say that i have never been physically intimate with anybody outside of our marriage. Never even considered it until this last year. I swing from being intensely unhappy to just satisfied with the status quo and that is no way to live. Neither of us is getting any younger and I don't want to waste any more of your time that you can spend living a life greater than ours with a woman better than me.
> 
> I know there are a lot of sticky things about us splitting up... the business being the major one. We have both contributed to building this and I see no reason for us to stop being business partners on what will probably be a silent basis. Obviously that's up to you.
> 
> Obviously I should be the one to move out. It will probably take me a few days to find somewhere I can go with the dogs. The car should also go with you. I will find something else.
> 
> I know this is probably not possible at this point due to your completely warranted anger, but I hope we can keep this amicable and find a way to not cause each other anymore pain than we already have.
> 
> I hope you got my email about the dogs. Please drop them off at ******** if you are unwilling or unable to take care of them until Tuesday. Either way, let me know what you decide.
> 
> You want want to hear this and probably don't want to believe this but if you have seem my Facebook messages then you probably know I have even told him this: I love you and you are my bet friend who I have now lost. I am so so so sorry. I will never be able to truly express that to you properly. *_


At this stage I believe you can still fight for your marriage but only if you want to.

I would be looking at underlying problems though.

You are critical of her priorities for staying east for work meetings for a couple of days, yet you wouldn't get on a plane at the start of this. Both of you have lost perspective.

If you want to fight I would still get on that plane. Your business will survive. No different from if you are sick for a day or so.


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

warlock07 said:


> Ask her to have some class and not go around shacking p with with married guys and destroying families. Is this what she ended up as? True love in 6 weeks?


I think this would come across as being very needy. I think you should do what she expects and not talk, just file.


----------



## warlock07

yep. He should probably never talk to her again. That is not how you end a marriage of 8 years.


----------



## Almostrecovered

1st sham and now bandit is back

Greg, you may not be aware but you have 2 posters that can really show you great examples on going thru D if that's what you choose


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

bandit.45 said:


> Do not let her rewrite the history of your marriage and relationship. She turned her back on a good thing and she is using pretty words to explain away and rationalize what she did. You need to tell her so. She's a coward and a liar.
> 
> The part about remaining business partners is a joke. Why would you want to remain a partner with a cheat and liar? You need to tell her this also.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Mike11

bandit.45 said:


> Standing up to her and taking her to task for her destructive behavior is needy?
> 
> He should tell her he'll file when he's damn good and ready, then stuff her clothes in garbage bags and leave them on the porch after changing the locks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now another Master spoke :lol::smthumbup:


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

bandit.45 said:


> Standing up to her and taking her to task for her destructive behavior is needy?
> 
> He should tell her he'll file when he's damn good and ready, then stuff her clothes in garbage bags and leave them on the porch after changing the locks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There's a difference between standing up to her and getting into an argument. The more words that pass between him and his wife, the more opportunities she'll have to blame shift and play mind games and get into nasty arguments that are needless.

He can file or he can leave her hanging without any form of communication. I like to think that the lesser emotion you show when dealing with this, the more you come across as a man above drama and consequently make OP that much more empowered.

Getting angry and stuffing her clothes into garbage bins is reason enough for her to draw battle lines and prolong the process of divorce. Change the locks if you want but don't give her an incentive to be overly dramatic.

Emotional detachment is much better than displays of anger.
Isn't that the whole point of pulling a 180 hmm?





bandit.45 said:


> Do not let her rewrite the history of your marriage and relationship. She turned her back on a good thing and she is using pretty words to explain away and rationalize what she did. You need to tell her so. She's a coward and a liar.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Believe me, I agree that she's a coward and a liar but OP doesn't need to tell her anything. You need to limit your contact with her Gregory. You can bet your ass that she'll rewrite the marital history and blame shift if you give her a chance and talking to her about the affair in any way will give her that chance.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Kitty, you're right. 

(But stuff like putting all her shiite in garbage bags sure feels good in the short run.)


----------



## ReturnOfTheKitty

Yes, but what if she threw my golf clubs away out of spite. I'd amend the constitution to legalize murder for such crimes.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

I hate to go back to one of my previous posts in this thread but I told you last night that this marriage was over. I'm sorry I had to say it but I knew after reading some of the details that this wasn't going to be saved. 

All of that being said there's zero reason not to expose this far and wide. Let his wife know what's coming down the road. 

There's no reason to play Mr. Nice Guy. I found her email to you to be smug and completely phony to be honest with you.


----------



## aug

OKay then, let her go.

Dont start a new relationship yet. Work on yourself to be a better person. Dont pursue another woman with a history of cheating.

Go find new happiness after you get your bearings back.


----------



## Greg40

I'm not really sure how to use Multi-quote lol so i'll do my best to respond to all the posts after that email in one lol.




I'm also going to add one more thing to the mix.....as if we need more lol. Just to add a little understanding as to why this is happening so quickly.





My wife is somewhat well known in our work circles and by well know I mean she has a very high internet presence and success that people gravitate to. 

A person can be hit by her attentions and its somewhat like a traktor beam pulling you in. Naturally.....I was pulled in by this beam 8 years ago... I gave up my current LTR, the ability to see my friends and family and moved half way around the world.


She also moves fast, great back then when "I" wanted her. Not so good now. 

This is where OM is right now, in the Fog....being pulled by the beam. 

1) It's either going to end soon and horribly (ie. he cant tell his wife)

2) Or they will destroy a bunch of peoples lives and it will end horribly a little later anyway (the beam doesn't always last)

3)Or they will live happily ever after.



















> That is some serious fog



Yup, the fog is deep. And I'm really on the fence if this guys really going to leave his whole family. She's got a really powerful pull and OM is bored of his wife of 11 years. His children.....from what I see online, He adores them.


She wants something different than the person I am now, the intensity that we once had blah blah. He provided it, she fell for him. And is in the fog. She thinks this guy is "the one" that has been missing all along (like we all haven't been "The One" .....sheesh)


He can't believe he's been chosen. His wife (comparitvely speaking) is a normal person, my wife (in our circles) is like some mythical being.







So they are both fogged for sure.












> She's in lala fantasy land and rewriting the real truth of how she felt about the marriage. Them endorphins are pretty powerful stuff, it really would serve you well to expose. (and her, it's doubtful OM will really leave his wife after she's told)



You are correct, there is a slim chance he might wake up if he is exposured to his wife.


I actually spoke to my wife on the phone this morning. I was meant to be Dark of course but, after reading the conversations and getting that email, it didn't seem that being 100 % Dark would serve much purpose.

Anyway it wasnt a long conversation. I wanted her to know that I hand't murdered her dogs etc etc.


I Did ask her..................has he told his wife yet.





She said no, not yet.






Her email had only just landed and its was something like 6.30am when she sent it. If I was her, id be expecting him to tell her pretty damn soon......Lets see if he does shall we.

















> Do not let her rewrite the history of your marriage and relationship. She turned her back on a good thing and she is using pretty words to explain away and rationalize what she did. You need to tell her so. She's a coward and a liar.
> 
> The part about remaining business partners is a joke. Why would you want to remain a partner with a cheat and liar? You need to tell her this also.




Yup, she turned her back on a great thing. And I fully expect the rationals, the slight re-writing. 



The business can be sorted out. It relies on both of us to make it work and it is my ONLY source of income. 

But I'm sure everyone knows who has faced a spilt up where you have shared business interests with your partner, its hard to dissolve that business without causing damage to other peoples finances....it will take time.











> She got that part right. And why would want a liar, cheater and a backstabber as a business partner.
> 
> Ask her to have some class and not go around shacking with with married guys and destroying families. Is this what she ended up at 40 ? Having affairs with married men ?
> 
> She realized that her account was accessed and is on the counter offensive. Let her run in the fog. Good for you. You should get a good separation while she is in the lala land.




Yup, this is a really poor emotional decision on her part. 

And although I could go nuclear like many have suggested, I would personally get severely blown up in the shockwave. And having considered the options left open to me (which do seem to change), I've come to the conclusion that If I took the Karma punch, I would survive ok....but blowing myself up for revenge, satisfaction or any other reason would have incredibly long consequences.....and you know, they just aint worth it.







> Greg
> 
> let her go
> 
> But what I can say is, she is in for a very very rude awakening,
> This is something that someone who is very deep in the affair fog will write and seem to already cashed all her chips on the OM, honestly I doubt he will leave his family for her and even if he will, he will not stay away from his kids, she is in for a huge let down to my opinion
> 
> You on the other hand, just let her go, I am willing to bet she will run back as soon as she will find out he will not leave his wife and kids for her, you can do much better
> 
> you seem like a decent bloke you will find better then her
> 
> Say strong mate



I think she is too. I think they both are.

And the quicker I can get to indifference, the better.


And the smoother I can make our seperation regarding assets etc....the better position I will be in for the rest of my life.


She might be in lala land, he might be there too.......I'm not following them.










> At this stage I believe you can still fight for your marriage but only if you want to.
> 
> I would be looking at underlying problems though.
> 
> You are critical of her priorities for staying east for work meetings for a couple of days, yet you wouldn't get on a plane at the start of this. Both of you have lost perspective.
> 
> If you want to fight I would still get on that plane. Your business will survive. No different from if you are sick for a day or so.




I have been on the fence about it. Earlier posts, EA was something I could overcome. But man, so much seems to have changed with her over the last few days. Not only what she's doing but now, but how I would feel about her if we were to R.



It really doesn't seem like a good personal decision because if that trait of hers which I thought was long gone, crushed by me LOL can resurface just like that.....I would be foolish to ignore this signal to get out, cut losses but maximize position and move on. 












> I think this would come across as being very needy. I think you should do what she expects and not talk, just file.



Yup 
















> yep. He should probably never talk to her again. That is not how you end a marriage of 8 years.



Obviously I've got to talk to her again lol. But from a position of Indifference, wont be a problem.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> There's no reason to play Mr. Nice Guy. I found her email to you to be smug and completely phony to be honest with you.


:iagree:

She kicks him to the curb and wants to remain business partners? She's got really big cojones.


----------



## Thor

Ok Greg, you don't want to expose. There is merit in pplaying it polite if you have decided to move right to D. No need to ratchet up the hostilities. Exposure is a tooll to kill the affair. Telling omw is the moral thing to do but who cares what her parents think?

I am ok with no widespread exposure.

But for cripes sake keep several archived copies of aalll the evidence. Emails, text messages, phone records, receipt for the lingerie, receipts for this trip, etc. It may become very useful or even very valuable $ wise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

Cheaters lie. Assume everything she says is a lie. The email she sent you was full of lies. She is very selfish. Everything she says and does is for herself. Nothing she says or does is for you.

Translation: She doesn't think it's right that you hacked her accounts; she doesn't care if you ever talk to her again (as long as she can get what she wants). Probably would be uncomfortable to talk to you, anyway.

_"I know you and I both understand the gravity of the situation and how far it has gone emotionally. Obviously I expect you to file for divorce on Monday. I know I would if the roles were reversed."_ Translation: You file; less work for me.

_"I can't take anything back but I can tell you that i am very, very sorry for hurting you the way I have and for not having the courage to ask for a divorce and be more honest with you. I will ALWAYS deeply regret causing you this pain and betraying you."_ This part is to soften you up a little so you'll give her what she wants.

_"You were absolutely right when you said you have been a good husband. You have. I just don't know if we are the right people to be married to each other."_ She really does think you were a bad husband, she just can't say it outright yet because then you might not give her what she wants.

_"I have come to realize that i need things that you are unable to or *unwilling to give* and that doesn't make you a *bad person* or *bad husband*"_ Why say "unable OR unwilling?" Which is it? Were you unable to meet her needs, or unwilling to meet her needs. Because, of course it would make you a bad husband if she needed things that you were *unwilling* to give; why would you not give your wife something that she needs if you were able? She married you and lived with you for eight years, she knows darn well you are able to meet her needs. So she really believes you are *unwilling* to give her those things; that makes you a bad husband. That is what she really thinks. She is phrasing it this way to get you to go along with what she wants.

_"but the wider this gulf has gotten, the more resentful and sneaky and reckless I have become. *That is not who I am at my core* and certainly *not what you deserve*."_ It certainly is who she is at her core; it is how she ended her previous relationship and it is how she is ending this one; and don't kid yourself, Mr. Bad Husband, she certainly does believe that you deserve it.

_*"I have no reason to lie to you at this point*," _Of course she has a reason to lie - so you don't raise a fuss, tell other man's wife, expose to her parents and family, and so she can get what she wants in the divorce settlement.

_"so know that i am telling the truth when I say that i have never been physically intimate with anybody outside of our marriage. Never even considered it until this last year. I swing from being intensely unhappy to just satisfied with the status quo and that is no way to live. Neither of us is getting any younger and *I don't want to waste any more of your time* that you can spend living a life greater than ours with a woman better than me." _ She doesn't care one bit about wasting any more of your time. If you didn't catch her, she would still be wasting your time, at least through December when she had plans to finally meet up with the other man. She planned on wasting plenty of your time. She's already wasted the past year of your life.

_"I know there are a lot of sticky things about us splitting up... the business being the major one. We have both contributed to building this and I see no reason for us to stop being business partners on what will probably be a silent basis. Obviously that's up to you."_ This is what the message is really all about - don't screw up the business, I want, ME, ME, ME.

_"Obviously I should be the one to move out. It will probably take me a few days to find somewhere I can go with the dogs. The car should also go with you. I will find something else."_ She didn't say she would move out and give you the car - she said she SHOULD move out and SHOULD give you the car. Don't count on it. Only if she can do it in such a way that she doesn't have any hardship. She's plotting how to get what she wants. She'll change her stance on this if it suits her.

_"I know this is probably not possible at this point due to your completely warranted anger, but I hope we can keep this amicable and find a way to not *cause each other anymore pain* than we already have."_ She is telling you, please stop causing me anymore pain. What pain have you caused her? She said earlier in the message, none, she thinks of you as a good husband who is unwilling to meet her needs. She wants you to start meeting her needs. Please give me everything I want so my life can be great.

_"I hope you got my email about the dogs. Please drop them off at ******** if you are unwilling or unable to take care of them until Tuesday. Either way, let me know what you decide."_ What's this all about? She thinks you are going to neglect the dogs to get back at her?

_"You want want to hear this and probably don't want to believe this but if you have seem my Facebook messages then you probably know I have even told him this: *I love you and you are my bet friend who I have now lost*. I am so so so sorry. I will never be able to truly express that to you properly."_ More lies to soften you up; she is resentful that you were such a bad husband who let the gulf grow so wide that it made her become resentful and sneaky and reckless; it really is all your fault for not being willing to meet her needs.

Do you have any idea of what needs you supposedly were unwilling to meet?


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> A person can be hit by her attentions and its somewhat like a traktor beam pulling you in. Naturally.....I was pulled in by this beam 8 years ago...I emmigrated to be with her. *I gave up my current LTR*, the ability to see my friends and family and moved half way around the world.


I suspected as much, if you read one of my recent posts. It explains why you are ready to move on.

I feel for you, but I also hope you wait before starting a new relationship. Entering one relationship while still in another--you see where that gets you. Nowhere. And anyone who is willing to persuade someone to dump the person they're with is not worth your time. So you lost 8 years--better than 18.


----------



## Shamwow

Yep, it's over. Now do what's best for YOU. Dont send copies of the FB conversations to family/friends, but absolutely call her parents, your parents and your closest mutual friends and just say "W has been stepping out our marriage and that is unacceptable to me. For my own self, I have to leave her. I'll be filing for divorce tomorrow. I wish this wasn't the case but it is, so I am doing what I have to do. Please respect this and know that I mean no harm to anyone involved by doing so. I have proof, and you are welcome to it if you want, but out of respect for everyone involved I'm not trying to make this ugly. Love you and I'm sorry this has played out the way it has."

Then absolutely file for divorce on Monday and cut your wife out of your life. She offered to find a place...great. Let her. She said the business relationship was up to you...great. Dissolve her part in it (even if this means buying her out for her share in building it). 

Be polite and calm in any dealings with her through this. But don't expect any more closure than she already gave you in that email. She's said her piece. Call it at that and concentrate on you. Sorry man. But make yourself better from this and try not to dwell on what if's.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

Keep it all quiet if you want in order to secure the best divorce settlement you can.

Keep it "amicable" until you get WHAT YOU WANT.

Save all evidence of the cheating; you can expose after the divorce settlement is final if you so desire.

Morally, I think you have an obligation to tell the other man's wife what is going on in the very near future. Divorce is not necessarily a quick process and the other man's wife may make important life decisions based on her false belief that other man is a faithful husband. 

After you tell the other man's wife about the affair, write your soon-to-be-ex-wife a nice email telling her how sorry you were to cause her any pain and if you could take back the exposure to the other man's wife, you would, but that you felt it was the right thing to do. Tell her that is who you are at your core.


----------



## warlock07

Is she a youtube celebrity? I am curious on what you mean by a large internet presence.(only if it won't compromise your anonymity that is )


----------



## Greg40

ReturnOfTheKitty said:


> There's a difference between standing up to her and getting into an argument. The more words that pass between him and his wife, the more opportunities she'll have to blame shift and play mind games and get into nasty arguments that are needless.
> 
> He can file or he can leave her hanging without any form of communication. I like to think that the lesser emotion you show when dealing with this, the more you come across as a man above drama and consequently make OP that much more empowered.
> 
> Getting angry and stuffing her clothes into garbage bins is reason enough for her to draw battle lines and prolong the process of divorce. Change the locks if you want but don't give her an incentive to be overly dramatic.
> 
> Emotional detachment is much better than displays of anger.
> Isn't that the whole point of pulling a 180 hmm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believe me, I agree that she's a coward and a liar but OP doesn't need to tell her anything. You need to limit your contact with her Gregory. You can bet your ass that she'll rewrite the marital history and blame shift if you give her a chance and talking to her about the affair in any way will give her that chance.







I'm with you here.


My brother got a divorce 15 years ago....battle lines got drawn really early because she was very bitter. 

They're both remarried other people over 10 years ago but due to their early decisions regarding their break up, how they dealt with each other on a personal level and the drawing of battle lines after breaking up .........they're still fighting each other today.

And on paper, their Divorce should have been pretty simple.


A 180, that helps me in multiple ways...I move on, I become indifferent, I maximize my position financially.


----------



## Greg40

warlock07 said:


> Is she a youtube celebrity? I am curious on what you mean by a large internet presence.(only if it won't compromise your anonymity that is )



Like "Star wars kid" lol.


No, its a business presence. And in our circles, a long standing presence that everyone know about.


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> I hate to go back to one of my previous posts in this thread but I told you last night that this marriage was over. I'm sorry I had to say it but I knew after reading some of the details that this wasn't going to be saved.
> 
> All of that being said there's zero reason not to expose this far and wide. Let his wife know what's coming down the road.
> 
> There's no reason to play Mr. Nice Guy. I found her email to you to be smug and completely phony to be honest with you.



It could be smug and phoney. 

I've re-read it multiple times and from my perspective, I get a certain take on where she is right now. 

Fogged up for sure, she has apparently found a person that completes her and is about to get her cake and eat it. 

Concerned about some things (business, her pets) but not others and is willing to let them go to smooth things out (Car, house)



You have the benefit of an outsiders eyes. Probably seeing things that I'm failing to comprehend right now.


Luckily, I've still got time to further dissect the small recent communications that we have had before she gets back from her trip.


----------



## jnj express

Hey greg ---your wife really isn't real smart---she is in all actuality facing a tremendously tuff situation, if her and her lover do hook up

1. she in reality knows nothing about him---all she knows is what he wants her to hear, and he is just as much a liar, and cheat as your wife is, in all reality he could be any kind of bad.

2. As to your business, unless he becomes a total sh*t and completely dumps his kids, your wife will go west to be with him---how do the 2 of you continue to conduct a business with half a continent seperating you

3. This is the real kicker---your wife who has NEVER dealt with kids, will now be saddled with his TWO kids, maybe up to 50% of their lives---and I promise you they will HATE your wife with a vengeance, for she is 50% responsible for taking their mother AWAY FROM THEM

Your wife, is not thinking at all---but since she can't seem to last in any kind of meaningful relationship---consider yourself---VERY, VERY, VERY LUCKY


----------



## Shamwow

Please tell me you printed or copied her FB messages. You may never "need" them, but you NEED them just in case, for now. I still have my ex's texts/emails...haven't looked at them in 9 months (OMW wanted copies while initiating her divorce so I revisited to organize them for her) but they still reside somewhere on a drive. Not dwell on them, but just because they actually happened. I'll delete them someday, as you will someday.

Go as dark as you can. There's no benefit in a tearful goodbye even though you feel that way right now (I did, probably as have we all).

Are you okay financially? Does her business connection with you make you vulnerable in a divorce? If so, remedy this quickly.


----------



## Mike11

jnj express said:


> Hey greg ---your wife really isn't real smart---she is in all actuality facing a tremendously tuff situation, if her and her lover do hook up
> 
> 1. she in reality knows nothing about him---all she knows is what he wants her to hear, and he is just as much a liar, and cheat as your wife is, in all reality he could be any kind of bad.
> 
> 2. As to your business, unless he becomes a total sh*t and completely dumps his kids, your wife will go west to be with him---how do the 2 of you continue to conduct a business with half a continent seperating you
> 
> 3. This is the real kicker---your wife who has NEVER dealt with kids, will now be saddled with his TWO kids, maybe up to 50% of their lives---and I promise you they will HATE your wife with a vengeance, for she is 50% responsible for taking their mother AWAY FROM THEM
> 
> Your wife, is not thinking at all---but since she can't seem to last in any kind of meaningful relationship---consider yourself---VERY, VERY, VERY LUCKY


Very Very Very Wise words :lol::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Greg40

jnj express said:


> Hey greg ---your wife really isn't real smart---she is in all actuality facing a tremendously tuff situation, if her and her lover do hook up
> 
> 1. she in reality knows nothing about him---all she knows is what he wants her to hear, and he is just as much a liar, and cheat as your wife is, in all reality he could be any kind of bad.
> 
> 2. As to your business, unless he becomes a total sh*t and completely dumps his kids, your wife will go west to be with him---how do the 2 of you continue to conduct a business with half a continent seperating you
> 
> 3. This is the real kicker---your wife who has NEVER dealt with kids, will now be saddled with his TWO kids, maybe up to 50% of their lives---and I promise you they will HATE your wife with a vengeance, for she is 50% responsible for taking their mother AWAY FROM THEM
> 
> Your wife, is not thinking at all---but since she can't seem to last in any kind of meaningful relationship---consider yourself---VERY, VERY, VERY LUCKY



I agree, her decision making here could be likened to "I've seen something new and shiney and I'm going to have it".


1) correct, apart from the "online" him. Thats it. 

2) It will be operational - we do design work and management. It doesn't matter where either of us are geographically, as long as the work gets done lol

3) This x100. We didn't have kids because we didn't really want them. Then she was unable to have them. It suited us fine. 

I don't think she has comprehended the gravity of dealing with OM's kids, I really don't.


And I am considering myself lucky  It continues to grow but currently I'm here on my own - theres less pain and confusion when she's not here.

She's going to be back on Tuesday, I need to get stronger and become more resolute in a very short time.


----------



## Greg40

Shamwow said:


> Please tell me you printed or copied her FB messages. You may never "need" them, but you NEED them just in case, for now. I still have my ex's texts/emails...haven't looked at them in 9 months (OMW wanted copies while initiating her divorce so I revisited to organize them for her) but they still reside somewhere on a drive. Not dwell on them, but just because they actually happened. I'll delete them someday, as you will someday.
> 
> Go as dark as you can. There's no benefit in a tearful goodbye even though you feel that way right now (I did, probably as have we all).
> 
> Are you okay financially? Does her business connection with you make you vulnerable in a divorce? If so, remedy this quickly.



I've got copies of everything I was able to.

Much of their contact was on mobiles - I have call logs but no transcripts. There's probably a way of getting those but the logs are ok for now.

I have FB screen shots. She managed to get the user/pass that i had discovered changed but I got enough of the conversations.

I could attempt to re-enter so I can read the parts I ddn't get to but, its really just more torment, I have what I need.

business wise, we are really quite entwined.

I can damage her, she can damage me. I have taken a **** load of money out of our savings.

I could do the same to her own personal savings but wont.

I wont steal the joint savings I've absconded. I just wanted control over it. because ultimately if she tries to screw me....she will be 50% paying to unscrew me.

I honestly don't think she's in that place though. She is many things to me now but she is not a thief and she doesn't try to screw people materially.


That doesn't mean that I wont look to protect myself though, but I'm not going to be a twat about our joint assets or try to mess up her personal assets. I think I can quite easily get what I want by just rationally reasoning why I should be the one that has it....she's in that la la zone.


----------



## Shaggy

Again, find his wife and tell her what is going on. She and her children need to protect themselves and to deal with the cheating.

Do not let her live in the dark.

It is the moral thing to do.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Greg40 said:


> *She is many things to me now but she is not a thief and she doesn't try to screw people materially.*


Greg, the wife you knew is DEAD. She's been replaced by an alien life-form that will do whatever it takes to satisfy her insatiable thirst for instant gratification. If that means stealing every dime from you, then so be it. You let your guard down before -- DON'T DO IT AGAIN by thinking she'll never do a dastardly deed or act in a vicious manner.


----------



## Shaggy

Greg40 said:


> I've got copies of everything I was able to.
> 
> Much of their contact was on mobiles - I have call logs but no transcripts. There's probably a way of getting those but the logs are ok for now.
> 
> I have FB screen shots. She managed to get the user/pass that i had discovered changed but I got enough of the conversations.
> 
> I could attempt to re-enter so I can read the parts I ddn't get to but, its really just more torment, I have what I need.
> 
> business wise, we are really quite entwined.
> 
> I can damage her, she can damage me. I have taken a **** load of money out of our savings.
> 
> I could do the same to her own personal savings but wont.
> 
> I wont steal the joint savings I've absconded. I just wanted control over it. because ultimately if she tries to screw me....she will be 50% paying to unscrew me.
> 
> I honestly don't think she's in that place though. She is many things to me now but she is not a thief and she doesn't try to screw people materially.
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean that I wont look to protect myself though, but I'm not going to be a twat about our joint assets or try to mess up her personal assets. I think I can quite easily get what I want by just rationally reasoning why I should be the one that has it....she's in that la la zone.


So your wife who has betrayed her vows, stabbed you in the back, lied to your face, trash your marriage

Says "Hey, trust me, I only want to do the right thing" 

AND YOU BELIEVE HER?????

I think you're going to find that anyone who would betray her marriage vows, is perfectly willing without guilt to steal and take everything she can from you.

You've already been betrayed by her, why are you leaving yourself open to more?


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Greg, the wife you knew is DEAD. She's been replaced by an alien life-form that will do whatever it takes to satisfy her insatiable thirst for instant gratification. If that means stealing every dime from you, then so be it. You let your guard down before -- DON'T DO IT AGAIN by thinking she'll never do a dastardly deed or act in a vicious manner.


Yup there's absolutely no way you can trust her at all right now. Not to mention she's with her family and you have no idea what she's telling them and what strategy she's drumming up. She's insane to think you two are going to remain business partners. That's going to have to be taken care of in some shape or form.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Do we really believe this is a guy she has never met in person? I know it happens but I find it hard to believe in his case.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg40 said:


> It could be smug and phoney.
> 
> I've re-read it multiple times and from my perspective, I get a certain take on where she is right now.
> 
> Fogged up for sure, she has apparently found a person that completes her and is about to get her cake and eat it.
> 
> Concerned about some things (business, her pets) but not others and is willing to let them go to smooth things out (Car, house)
> 
> 
> 
> You have the benefit of an outsiders eyes. Probably seeing things that I'm failing to comprehend right now.
> 
> 
> Luckily, I've still got time to further dissect the small recent communications that we have had before she gets back from her trip.



Greg my honest opinion on reading that email was that she's blaming you in most of it and being phony in her mentions of herself. I mean if you read it again and take out the couple of mentions of her telling you she's sorry and it's her fault. She's telling the story about how she's not a bad person and just needs what you can't or are unwilling to provide.


----------



## Shaggy

Greg,

I want you to know that she is speaking total cheater speak. I don't know whats in the messages you read, but I think you'll find it is the very typical affair babble between two cheaters.


----------



## Greg40

Shaggy said:


> Again, find his wife and tell her what is going on. She and her children need to protect themselves and to deal with the cheating.
> 
> Do not let her live in the dark.
> 
> It is the moral thing to do.


I've contacted her through trough the only private connection that I know of.

Obviously, wife has told me it's over....and has made OM aware.

He hasn't done the same, well, not when i spoke to wife this morning.

Should be a telling time over the next few days.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Do we really believe this is a guy she has never met in person? I know it happens but I find it hard to believe in his case.


:iagree:

Greg, how often does she travel for work? Did she make any trips during the last few months that might've allowed her and the OM to hookup?


----------



## Greg40

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Greg, the wife you knew is DEAD. She's been replaced by an alien life-form that will do whatever it takes to satisfy her insatiable thirst for instant gratification. If that means stealing every dime from you, then so be it. You let your guard down before -- DON'T DO IT AGAIN by thinking she'll never do a dastardly deed or act in a vicious manner.



Ok, i will take that on board.

There are certain things that have held true through her life that will remain.

One is that she is not a thief.

I have helped her create a significant savings fund over the last approx 5 years (basically got her to curb her material spending)

She is absolutely not short of cash. And she earns a great wage. 

We have kept the majority of our personal savings separate since we got together.

I have already taken the joint savings but they will naturally be distributed 50/50 when the time is right.

I'm taking the time now to make sure that I have control of the things that are 100% mine legitimately. I'm not going to touch her things, she'll be back in a few days, her accounts will be intact and I wont have touched a penny of her personal assets.


----------



## Wazza

Greg40 said:


> Ok, i will take that on board.
> 
> There are certain things that have held true through her life that will remain.
> 
> One is that she is not a thief.
> 
> I have helped her create a significant savings fund over the last approx 5 years (basically got her to curb her material spending)
> 
> She is absolutely not short of cash. And she earns a great wage.
> 
> We have kept the majority of our personal savings separate since we got together.
> 
> I have already taken the joint savings but they will naturally be distributed 50/50 when the time is right.
> 
> I'm taking the time now to make sure that I have control of the things that are 100% mine legitimately. I'm not going to touch her things, she'll be back in a few days, her accounts will be intact and I wont have touched a penny of her personal assets.


Very balanced. You have to back her judgement of her. Not everyone on TAM seems to get that. I understand why, when you read a lot of the stories here, but you know her.

I would still advise caution. She is not thinking clearly and, while she may not be a thief, she may have a very different idea than you of what is fair. 

Having said that, you have enough to deal with without making any divorce unnecessarily acrimonious. Don't pick fights, but stay vigilant, would be my advice.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

its possible your STBXW will meet him and he probably will not have left/ divorced his wife and he will become disinterested in leaving the wife because.he is a cake eater and the wife will never know because she was not told. I am sure you and everyone here would have liked someone to show the truth. The OM wife may be gullible and believe her H over you so proof is needed. Spare other families from the pain caused by serial cheaters, i know you sent fb message, i hope that is enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

Shaggy said:


> So your wife who has betrayed her vows, stabbed you in the back, lied to your face, trash your marriage
> 
> Says "Hey, trust me, I only want to do the right thing"
> 
> AND YOU BELIEVE HER?????
> 
> I think you're going to find that anyone who would betray her marriage vows, is perfectly willing without guilt to steal and take everything she can from you.
> 
> You've already been betrayed by her, why are you leaving yourself open to more?


The things that she has to do "the right thing about" are property, finance and the split of personal property (belongings etc).



The things that she has to do "the right thing about" are property, finance and the split of personal property (belongings etc).

Property is in joint names. She can't do anything without me and vs verse.


Finances (apart from joint checking and joint savings) Have always been in individual names. I've taken the savings temporarily and left a token amount in the joint for bills.


I can effect change at the business to protect myself, it takes a little while to do. She'll be back in a few days, due to account permissions etc I couldn't effect it without her anyway. And she can't do anything while she's away from her home office PC.


I'll be seeing a lawyer tomorrow but I'm doing what I can here while I have uninterrupted opportunity.


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Yup there's absolutely no way you can trust her at all right now. Not to mention she's with her family and you have no idea what she's telling them and what strategy she's drumming up. She's insane to think you two are going to remain business partners. That's going to have to be taken care of in some shape or form.



I don't want to be business partners. that really would be quite insane.

But, I do need her to fairly distribute what we have....I think that should be quite easily achievable but, I wont talk to her on the phone about it. 

She needs to be here and we need to agree on it and I need to see the changes being made for myself.


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Do we really believe this is a guy she has never met in person? I know it happens but I find it hard to believe in his case.


I read their personal FB text transactions. 

These were dated up to and including 8th August. She left for the wedding trip on the 9th.

Their conversations made many references to a planned December trip and how much they were looking forward to that.

The brand new black negligee was a little something she bought to spice up their webcam chats while she was at the wedding on the east coast and he was at home on the west.

I'm 100% sure that they have never met to date.


----------



## betamale

You said that your wife left her ex husband because he neglected her. She'll probably tell the same thing to the OM, but I believe that's an excuse. 

I think your wife's EA doesn't have anything to do with you, nor feeling neglected. 

I believe that she's the one that get guys like you and the OM to feel atracted to her and not the other way around. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that she has a type 8 personality (Enneagram Personality Type 8: The Leader) and women with those traits usually are man eaters. 
Hall & Oates - Maneater Lyrics

You're not alone. I know how it feels to be hooked to that type of lady.


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Greg my honest opinion on reading that email was that she's blaming you in most of it and being phony in her mentions of herself. I mean if you read it again and take out the couple of mentions of her telling you she's sorry and it's her fault. She's telling the story about how she's not a bad person and just needs what you can't or are unwilling to provide.


And to be honest, I think that's to be expected. She's not going to say "Recently, what made me happy now doesn't, I'm somewhat harder to please emotionally and have re-developed a wandering eye".

Apportioning blame IMO is something that we are going to likely be doing many times over the next few days lol. But it wont change the core problem of why our marriage is where it is now , which is that she went outside of it.


----------



## Greg40

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Greg, how often does she travel for work? Did she make any trips during the last few months that might've allowed her and the OM to hookup?


She travels once or twice a year. Usually for 4 days at a time. 

The last trip she made was March this year.

He was in our city in June this year,....in that conversations she said something to the effect that it was a shame they weren't talking online earlier (I think they started at the end of June).


----------



## lordmayhem

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Do we really believe this is a guy she has never met in person? I know it happens but I find it hard to believe in his case.


Yes, it happens all the time. There are people who can actually fall in love with the words someone else types on the screen, or a voice on the phone.

Here's one of the megathreads by HurtinginTN, and his WW took the family's only means of transportation to drive across the country thru the night to meet up with her OM, who she had never met in real life. This was happening in real time and he was getting advice at that time. Interesting read.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24095-synopsis-update-ongoing-emotional-affair-32.html

Unfortunately, it didn't end well because he couldn't find the strength to man up and continues to suffer false R and continuing D-Days.


----------



## Greg40

Wazza said:


> Very balanced. You have to back her judgement of her. Not everyone on TAM seems to get that. I understand why, when you read a lot of the stories here, but you know her.
> 
> I would still advise caution. She is not thinking clearly and, while she may not be a thief, she may have a very different idea than you of what is fair.
> 
> Having said that, you have enough to deal with without making any divorce unnecessarily acrimonious. Don't pick fights, but stay vigilant, would be my advice.



Indeed.

Financially, I'm the one with the acumen in our relationship. It doesn't interest her and never has.

She's not financially stupid in the least, but if it comes to financial matters, she signs what i give her.

She says that numbers make her sleepy.


----------



## Greg40

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> its possible your STBXW will meet him and he probably will not have left/ divorced his wife and he will become disinterested in leaving the wife because.he is a cake eater and the wife will never know because she was not told. I am sure you and everyone here would have liked someone to show the truth. The OM wife may be gullible and believe her H over you so proof is needed. Spare other families from the pain caused by serial cheaters, i know you sent fb message, i hope that is enough.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I hope its enough too.

I will send more. I'm giving it a few days, for all I know he checks her FB.

Obviously she has split with me and I fully imagine advised him as much. The ball is now in his court.

I know he didn't do it at the same time she did (although it was like 8.00am when I read the email, and 8.30 that I answered her phone call, and he's several hours negative time difference to me) I'm going to be very interested to see what transpires when she gets back.

I do want to keep things amicable and calm and will ask her if he's done it yet ?

If by the time she gets back from her trip he hasn't told his wife (or his wife hasn't come across my email) , that'll be 3 days. Suddenly it might dawn on her that he was more than likely playing a waiting game to December or only now understands the gravity. And this whole "I'm going to split up with my husband of 8 years for an online fixation" is going to seem a whole lot more insane.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Well Greg the best part is that you will be able to move on with your life and find someone a lot better to be happy with. It's terrible you have to go through this but at least you recognized what kind of person you're dealing with. Good luck to her in a search for happiness she will never find. You see Greg they want that unicorn and rainbows life that just isn't an everyday reality. Not to mention the chances that this new relationship will last if this OM does in fact leave his family for her is very low.


----------



## iheartlife

betamale said:


> You said that your wife left her ex husband because he neglected her. She'll probably tell the same thing to the OM, but I believe that's an excuse.
> 
> I think your wife's EA doesn't have anything to do with you, nor feeling neglected.
> 
> I believe that she's the one that get guys like you and the OM to feel atracted to her and not the other way around. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that she has a type 8 personality (Enneagram Personality Type 8: The Leader) and women with those traits usually are man eaters.
> Hall & Oates - Maneater Lyrics
> 
> You're not alone. I know how it feels to be hooked to that type of lady.


I just want to point out (again) that unless I misunderstood Greg40, when he said HE left his LTR for his WS, he was admitting that he's engaged in similar behavior. He evidentally got swept up in a virtual relationship with his WS, long distance, and broke up with his LTR as a result. Not entirely unlike the OM in this situation (although sans kids, presumably (?)).

Now, I suspect that Greg40's LTR wasn't a marriage. I am not a fan at all of leaving a long term monogamous relationship by "dating" someone else first (virtually or otherwise) but still, if you haven't vowed fidelity before witnesses, that is not precisely the same. So in that tiny regard, I will cut him some slack.

If Greg40 chooses, I am curious why he doesn't think that we are applying a double standard; the suggestion is that his WS lured Greg40 away from his LTR. But in truth, he made a choice, he's a grown adult.


----------



## Chaparral

Financially, I think you will find in most states, that every penny the both of you have made/spent since you have been married is joint property. There are no your accts, her accts, seperate business accts.

Maybe the karma bus is hitting you now because of the way you and your wife got together. If you don't do everything in your power to let the OM's wife know what is going on behind her back and give her a chance to save her family, I truly hope the bus hits you again, again and again.

You seem to be totally unconcerned about the children involved. Your wife is a selfish monster and I'm having my doubts about you.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Well, it has already been known that the foundation for the relationship wasnt perfect. If the OM rejects his STBXW then she will probably pull some reverse psychology episode saying "i know youre angry and i broke your tust, it was all a mistake, i understand that youd never want me back". Without Greg ever mentioning anything about possibly taking her back. She doesnt seem to be the begging and bawling on the floor type if she was the least bit remorseful
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

betamale said:


> You said that your wife left her ex husband because he neglected her. She'll probably tell the same thing to the OM, but I believe that's an excuse.
> 
> I think your wife's EA doesn't have anything to do with you, nor feeling neglected.
> 
> I believe that she's the one that get guys like you and the OM to feel atracted to her and not the other way around. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that she has a type 8 personality (Enneagram Personality Type 8: The Leader) and women with those traits usually are man eaters.
> Hall & Oates - Maneater Lyrics
> 
> You're not alone. I know how it feels to be hooked to that type of lady.




My wife wasn't married. She had a BF of 9 months (online relationship). She moved from the East Coast to his state to be with him. After 3 months it wasn't going well and we started talking....yay me LOL.

I see a lot of type 8 in her from that link description. More 8 than not 8.



She doesn't go for guys that she is not romantically attracted to (thats what she told me anyway). So she's not a stereotypical man-eater but, she does move fast.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

That's a bit harsh Chap. He's already FB the OM's wife and has indicated that he will send more communications.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg40 said:


> My wife wasn't married. She had a BF of 9 months (online relationship). She moved from the East Coast to his state to be with him. After 3 months it wasn't going well and we started talking....yay me LOL.
> 
> I see a lot of type 8 in her from that link description. More 8 than not 8.
> 
> 
> 
> She doesn't go for guys that she is not romantically attracted to (thats what she told me anyway). So she's not a stereotypical man-eater but, she does move fast.



A pretty typical and obvious result of an online relationship. They finally meet and real life isn't as exciting as the online fantasy.


----------



## keko

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> A pretty typical and obvious result of an online relationship. They finally meet and real life isn't as exciting as the online fantasy.


And she hasn't learned a damn thing, to go after another online bf. Stupid cvnt. I don't think this will even make 3 months, maybe a couple of weeks at the most.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Well Greg the best part is that you will be able to move on with your life and find someone a lot better to be happy with. It's terrible you have to go through this but at least you recognized what kind of person you're dealing with. Good luck to her in a search for happiness she will never find. You see Greg they want that unicorn and rainbows life that just isn't an everyday reality. Not to mention the chances that this new relationship will last if this OM does in fact leave his family for her is very low.


I'm fully with you here.

I feel massively betrayed amongst other things and because I emigrated to be with her, I feel that she has done me a deep injustice considering my sacrifices.

And I agree that she is after something that is not truly sustainable in a monogamous long term relationship or marriage.


----------



## Chaparral

keko said:


> And she hasn't learned a damn thing, to go after another online bf. Stupid cvnt. I don't think this will even make 3 months, maybe a couple of weeks at the most.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, but, uh,they're soulmates. Have been for a long.....er....really short time. They are so in love he can't tell his wife he is leaving her . They can't figure out how to get together before next wee.........er next mo,,,,,,,,,,,no wait, next December, yeah that's the ticket. It'll be like Christmas. Does that mean he won't be able to play Santa at home?


----------



## Greg40

iheartlife said:


> I just want to point out (again) that unless I misunderstood Greg40, when he said HE left his LTR for his WS, he was admitting that he's engaged in similar behavior. He evidentally got swept up in a virtual relationship with his WS, long distance, and broke up with his LTR as a result. Not entirely unlike the OM in this situation (although sans kids, presumably (?)).
> 
> Now, I suspect that Greg40's LTR wasn't a marriage. I am not a fan at all of leaving a long term monogamous relationship by "dating" someone else first (virtually or otherwise) but still, if you haven't vowed fidelity before witnesses, that is not precisely the same. So in that tiny regard, I will cut him some slack.
> 
> If Greg40 chooses, I am curious why he doesn't think that we are applying a double standard; the suggestion is that his WS lured Greg40 away from his LTR. But in truth, he made a choice, he's a grown adult.



I was the EA 8 years ago. Dead relationship (to me at least). We had no kids.

We flirted online exactly the same as wife and OM are now. Exactly.

As our online EA developed we made the usual plans to meet. 

I decided to end dead relationship so that I wasn't physically cheating (I thought that this made a difference, that i was morally ok or something, but now I know I was cheating all along). She decided to end her fairly new relationship.



It doesn't look at all good on paper. Two people were affected by our decisions. We did however have a successful and happy marriage for the lions share of its duration.

I did just look at some stats and these were quite interesting:

Median duration of first marriages that end in divorce: Males: 7.8 years
Females: 7.9 years

Median duration of second marriages that end in divorce: Males: 7.3 years
Females: 6.8 years 


That's almost to the day where we are now. I would have had no problem staying with her the rest of my life, obviously she didn't feel that way....I'm going to keep those stats in mind lol.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

keko said:


> And she hasn't learned a damn thing, to go after another online bf. Stupid cvnt. I don't think this will even make 3 months, maybe a couple of weeks at the most.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just a massively immature person amoung other things. This is somebody constantly acting like a teenage girl.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

I heard a saying once Greg that makes sense regardless of the statistics. You marry the first time for what you want. You marry the second time for what you need.


----------



## lordmayhem

betamale said:


> You said that your wife left her ex husband because he neglected her. She'll probably tell the same thing to the OM, but I believe that's an excuse.
> 
> I think your wife's EA doesn't have anything to do with you, nor feeling neglected.
> 
> I believe that she's the one that get guys like you and the OM to feel atracted to her and not the other way around. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that she has a type 8 personality (Enneagram Personality Type 8: The Leader) and women with those traits usually are man eaters.
> Hall & Oates - Maneater Lyrics
> 
> You're not alone. I know how it feels to be hooked to that type of lady.


I took the free test based on those picture cards and it shows that I'm a Type 8 and the 2nd ranked type 6. Don't know what that means but I think its psychobabble.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> Financially, I think you will find in most states, that every penny the both of you have made/spent since you have been married is joint property. There are no your accts, her accts, seperate business accts.
> 
> Maybe the karma bus is hitting you now because of the way you and your wife got together. If you don't do everything in your power to let the OM's wife know what is going on behind her back and give her a chance to save her family, I truly hope the bus hits you again, again and again.
> 
> You seem to be totally unconcerned about the children involved. Your wife is a selfish monster and I'm having my doubts about you.




Understood.

Both my wife and OM are selfish monsters. He ultimately has all the power regardless of her actions. So he takes a larger slice of the responsibility.

She is chasing him for sure, I'm in no illusion about that, not from their conversations. 

I'm not sure how truly weak he is....weak enough to let this destroy his family ? Or he has no intention of telling his wife at all and is just too weak to resist WW's advances and is playing the waiting game till their proposed December meet.

I've tried to contact OM's wife and will continue to do so. I have only two avenues in that regard and I suspect he has control of them both.


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> A pretty typical and obvious result of an online relationship. They finally meet and real life isn't as exciting as the online fantasy.


I fully agree. 

If I was ever to date online again, id keep it to the same state that I was living in.

And id be double sure that they weren't in an existing relationship, hadn't just finished one and that a regular dating pattern could be established (ie, able to go out regularly, able to live in separate homes etc)


----------



## Greg40

keko said:


> And she hasn't learned a damn thing, to go after another online bf. Stupid cvnt. I don't think this will even make 3 months, maybe a couple of weeks at the most.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I fully agree. I think its going to be an epic disaster on her part.


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> Understood.
> 
> Both my wife and OM are selfish monsters. He ultimately has all the power regardless of her actions. So he takes a larger slice of the responsibility.
> 
> She is chasing him for sure, I'm in no illusion about that, not from their conversations.
> 
> I'm not sure how truly weak he is....weak enough to let this destroy his family ? Or he has no intention of telling his wife at all and is just too weak to resist WW's advances and is playing the waiting game till their proposed December meet.
> 
> I've tried to contact OM's wife and will continue to do so. I have only two avenues in that regard and I suspect he has control of them both.



Shamwow hired a PI to get the OM's wife's info if I remember correctly. However you do it, you are morally bound to stop your wife from destroying this family on what amounts to a whim.


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> I heard a saying once Greg that makes sense regardless of the statistics. You marry the first time for what you want. You marry the second time for what you need.



I thought I had because I didn't get married young and decided early on to no even consider marriage until 30 (married at 32). Thought id get it right first time lol

Not sure I would go a 2nd time to be honest.


----------



## SomedayDig

Don't worry about a 2nd time any time soon, bro.

It took me like 5 years before I tried again.

And that was with Regret!! LMAO


----------



## Greg40

Is there a sticky that details what all the acronyms are?


----------



## SomedayDig

Lots of Stuff

Not just acronyms but they're in there...


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg40 said:


> Understood.
> 
> Both my wife and OM are selfish monsters. He ultimately has all the power regardless of her actions. So he takes a larger slice of the responsibility.
> 
> She is chasing him for sure, I'm in no illusion about that, not from their conversations.
> 
> I'm not sure how truly weak he is....weak enough to let this destroy his family ? Or he has no intention of telling his wife at all and is just too weak to resist WW's advances and is playing the waiting game till their proposed December meet.
> 
> I've tried to contact OM's wife and will continue to do so. I have only two avenues in that regard and I suspect he has control of them both.


Let me offer this as food for thought. In my past EA experience the OMW knew what was going on as well. She had been questioning the amount of text messages over the past month. When I contacted her it was immediate comparison of notes as compared to complete shock on her end.


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> Lots of Stuff
> 
> Not just acronyms but they're in there...



thank you


----------



## lordmayhem

I don't know if I should even bother putting the links to the threads in my signature anymore.


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Let me offer this as food for thought. In my past EA experience the OMW knew what was going on as well. She had been questioning the amount of text messages over the past month. When I contacted her it was immediate comparison of notes as compared to complete shock on her end.


I'm sure that happens a reasonable portion of the time. especially now with smart phones.

I barely used mine and if your partner can't leave theirs alone, they are either an Angry birds addict or they might be talking. its just so discrete nowadays.

People are going to notice on both sides of the EA if its out of the norm, you'd hope so at least.


----------



## Shaggy

You say the OM is in the business, then you should be able to tack him down using spokeo and other services to find his home address.

Send the mail there to her, or better yet hop on a plane fly there for they and talk to her when he is at work,

It must just scare him too knowing you were there.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg40 said:


> I'm sure that happens a reasonable portion of the time. especially now with smart phones.
> 
> I barely used mine and if your partner can't leave theirs alone, they are either an Angry birds addict or they might be talking. its just so discrete nowadays.
> 
> People are going to notice on both sides of the EA if its out of the norm, you'd hope so at least.


What I was saying though is don't be shocked if his wife already has her own suspicions. That being said the smart phones and Facebook cause major problems. They become addictive to begin with.


----------



## Greg40

Shaggy said:


> You say the OM is in the business, then you should be able to tack him down using spokeo and other services to find his home address.
> 
> Send the mail there to her, or better yet hop on a plane fly there for they and talk to her when he is at work,
> 
> It must just scare him too knowing you were there.


He's not in our line of work. 

I know where he lives. I'll send a reg mail after 3 days.


----------



## Malaise

Greg40 said:


> I fully agree. I think its going to be an epic disaster on her part.


And if it does happen to be an epic disaster in the future, and you hear of it, please update us. I don't know you or your W but I don't like unrepentant cheaters,I'm rooting for you and I want to see her crash and burn (metaphorically speaking)


----------



## Caribbean Man

keko said:


> And she hasn't learned a damn thing, to go after another online bf. Stupid cvnt. I don't think this will even make 3 months, maybe a couple of weeks at the most.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Greg,
Whilst you may try to make sense of everything , I think that a great deal of this is her choice. So in your mind you ask ,but why?
Some people are addicted to the thrill of starting new things.
Not that such an addiction is bad,but few people know how to manage it well.
Successful business people calculate risks and make a gamble.
Both you and I, being involved in business know that nothing is more rewarding than planning and pursuing a new project,
and seeing it yield great rewards. 
The flip side is that feeling we get when our analysis shows up negative. We make an assessment and things don't look promising. 
We cut our losses and go to another project.It keeps the adrenaline [ and money ] flowing.

Some people use that same approach to serious relationships.They get bored and long for the thrill.They see a new" project" and they gamble everything......


----------



## Chaparral

For now, you need to buy/download Married Man Sex Life and No More Mister Nice Guy ( in that order) to see what happened to your relationship. The titles are misleading but they will open your eyes and will clue you in if you reconcile or start a new relationship. Everyone who reads these swear by them. Reqiured reading for EVERY man. (MMSL is not a sex manual) This, most likely, will explain her complaint that you were unable/unwilling to meet her needs.


----------



## happyman64

And no matter what Greg when she gets home stay firm on your position.

She is 37 years old, in a serious EA, throwing away her husband and marriage for a relationship with OM that is married with kids.

WHat a f'in disaster in the making!

And she is sooooo in loooovvvvveeeee (aka in the fog) that you cannot even reason with her. She knows exactly what she has done to you and the marriage. In her own words.

She definitely has checked out......

After that email take everything you can get. Keep it amicable and D her butt as fast as you can.

I highly doubt she will have a change of heart.

It is time to take care of you, inform OMW and let her parents know you guys are splitting and why. 

I would not wait for her to do it. She has been quite sneaky lately. And not just with you.

HM64


----------



## Shaggy

Today buy a couple of harddrives and make backups of her entire computers and stash them off site.


----------



## Thewife

I have been reading this thread. Greg, you have been handling things very well, I guess you will be on the road of happiness very soon. Good thing you found out!


----------



## Dollystanford

I've been following this thread too

your wife's email was a classic example of someone who is actually trying to control the situation by taking the choices away from you and telling you what you should do about HER betrayal. I didn't detect one iota of sincerity in anything she wrote - that's a very cool customer you've got there my British friend

please be on your guard, she's had quite a bit of time to plan her next move, but she doesn't have the TAM crusaders on her side either so you actually have an advantage

and stand your ground - she's willing to throw her marriage away for someone she's never met? b*tch please!


----------



## Chaparral

BTW here is a link to the 180

The Healing Heart: The 180

We used to just print it out but it turned out to be copyrighted.


----------



## Almostrecovered

have you been calling around for lawyers yet?


----------



## donders

chapparal said:


> Shamwow hired a PI to get the OM's wife's info if I remember correctly. However you do it, you are morally bound to stop your wife from destroying this family on what amounts to a whim.


He's not "morally bound" to do ANYTHING

Greg please do not listen to advice such as this and realize you are getting responses from people who have been cheated on and very hurt and can not deal with their unresolved feelings of anger and betrayal.

You have the right idea. Maintain an indifferent exterior attitude, limit your contact with her and proceed with an amicable, and inexpensive and fast divorce so you can get on with your life.

Do NOT do anything to antagonize her and make things ugly. You have accepted the marriage is over, you intend to take the high road and avoid drama and revenge and your strategy is spot on regardless of what you hear from the members of this board.


----------



## happyman64

Dollystanford said:


> I've been following this thread too
> 
> your wife's email was a classic example of someone who is actually trying to control the situation by taking the choices away from you and telling you what you should do about HER betrayal. I didn't detect one iota of sincerity in anything she wrote - that's a very cool customer you've got there my British friend
> 
> please be on your guard, she's had quite a bit of time to plan her next move, but she doesn't have the TAM crusaders on her side either so you actually have an advantage
> 
> and stand your ground - she's willing to throw her marriage away for someone she's never met? b*tch please!


Where is Bandit45 when you need him? He would have had a great response to Greg's dilemma......


----------



## Malaise

donders said:


> He's not "morally bound" to do ANYTHING
> 
> Greg please do not listen to advice such as this and realize you are getting responses from people who have been cheated on and very hurt and can not deal with their unresolved feelings of anger and betrayal.
> 
> You have the right idea. Maintain an indifferent exterior attitude, limit your contact with her and proceed with an amicable, and inexpensive and fast divorce so you can get on with your life.
> 
> Do NOT do anything to antagonize her and make things ugly. You have accepted the marriage is over, you intend to take the high road and avoid drama and revenge and your strategy is spot on regardless of what you hear from the members of this board.


I respectfully disagree


----------



## Harken Banks

happyman64 said:


> Where is Bandit45 when you need him?


I've heard that if you say his name three times . . ..


----------



## Shamwow

donders said:


> He's not "morally bound" to do ANYTHING
> 
> Greg please do not listen to advice such as this and realize you are getting responses from people who have been cheated on and very hurt and can not deal with their unresolved feelings of anger and betrayal.
> 
> You have the right idea. Maintain an indifferent exterior attitude, limit your contact with her and proceed with an amicable, and inexpensive and fast divorce so you can get on with your life.
> 
> Do NOT do anything to antagonize her and make things ugly. You have accepted the marriage is over, you intend to take the high road and avoid drama and revenge and your strategy is spot on regardless of what you hear from the members of this board.


No, he's not morally bound to do anything. But to say that posters here "can not deal with their unresolved feelings of anger" is just asinine. Conversely, I'd say most posters here are more self-aware and have more "resolved feelings" than most, because they've faced these issues head on. They (we) post to help others through a difficult time.

How is giving the truth to a woman who is being actively betrayed by her H revenge? It is a kind thing to do, as she deserves to know in order to make informed decisions about how she wants to handle her life.

Some people may seek revenge, and that is generally unhelpful to all involved. Most just want to do what they feel is right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## donders

Shamwow said:


> How is giving the truth to a woman who is being actively betrayed by her H revenge? It is a kind thing to do, as she deserves to know in order to make informed decisions about how she wants to handle her life.


The guy who started this thread already explained why.

He's giving himself better advice than you and several others!

By exposing the affair and doing other things that will piss her off will change her attitude from "I'm sorry this happened, take what you want in the divorce" to "talk to my attorney, I will see you in court".

The other man's wife is not his problem, he's got to save himself.


----------



## Wazza

Shamwow said:


> No, he's morally bound to do anything. But to say that posters here "can not deal with their unresolved feelings of anger" is just asinine. Conversely, I'd say most posters here are more self-aware and have more "resolved feelings" than most, because they've faced these issues head on. They (we) post to help others through a difficult time.
> 
> How is giving the truth to a woman who is being actively betrayed by her H revenge? It is a kind thing to do, as she deserves to know in order to make informed decisions about how she wants to handle her life.
> 
> Some people may seek revenge, and that is generally unhelpful to all involved. Most just want to do what they feel is right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It depends why you tell the OMW. And probably how you do it as well.

On the notion of unresolved anger...having read some of the stories here it's inconceivable to me that people wouldn't be struggling with exactly that. My experiences of infidelity are mild compared to many here, and a long time ago, and there is still an emotional twinge. I have to work to let it go.

In my case I successfully reconciled.....and I could not complete that until I took the risk to let go of certain things that hurt me. The most counter-intuitive thing in the world is to give trust to someone who has betrayed you in the worst way.


----------



## Shaggy

donders said:


> The guy who started this thread already explained why.
> 
> He's giving himself better advice than you and several others!
> 
> By exposing the affair and doing other things that will piss her off will change her attitude from "I'm sorry this happened, take what you want in the divorce" to "talk to my attorney, I will see you in court".
> 
> The other man's wife is not his problem, he's got to save himself.


First, I do actually think he does have a moral obligation. He knows something relevant and material to her marriage. As members of society we have a moral obligation to help others in need when we can.

Second, right now the OMs presence is killing his marriage. The OM needs to go away. Telling truth to the OMW will aid in that task.


----------



## Shamwow

donders said:


> The guy who started this thread already explained why.
> 
> He's giving himself better advice than you and several others!
> 
> By exposing the affair and doing other things that will piss her off will change her attitude from "I'm sorry this happened, take what you want in the divorce" to "talk to my attorney, I will see you in court".
> 
> The other man's wife is not his problem, he's got to save himself.


I hear what you're saying, and don't disagree that he's got to save himself and not stir the pot for no reason.

In my case, the OMW suspected but had no proof, and had been repeatedly gaslighted by her H and was miserable. By calling, I aided her in being able to finally rip the band-aid off (her words) and start moving on with her life knowing she wasn't crazy. Was my XW pissed? Yup. Did she claim I was being vindictive? Yup. Did she get over it and give me my amicable divorce terms anyway? Yup.

Not saying it couldn't go the other way, so I respect your viewpoint, but that scenario played out leaving me much more self-respect than if I kept her dirty little secret to myself, let the OM continue to emotionally abuse his wife, let her say whatever she wanted to family/friends as to why the marriage was ending, and in essence feel like I was condoning her actions for the sake of avoiding some backlash or embarrassment.


----------



## Shamwow

Wazza said:


> It depends why you tell the OMW. And probably how you do it as well.


Totally agree.



> On the notion of unresolved anger...having read some of the stories here it's inconceivable to me that people wouldn't be struggling with exactly that. My experiences of infidelity are mild compared to many here, and a long time ago, and there is still an emotional twinge. I have to work to let it go.


Totaly agree. Didn't mean to imply that everyone here is all rosy and 100% buttoned up with the things that have happened in their lives. Just pointing out that just because we're posting on an infidelity forum doesn't mean we're all in the throes of agony, trying to convince people to inflict undue pain on their cheating spouses and others. We're all in different stages of handling our situations.

(and congrats on your R, btw)


----------



## happyman64

donders said:


> The guy who started this thread already explained why.
> 
> He's giving himself better advice than you and several others!
> 
> By exposing the affair and doing other things that will piss her off will change her attitude from "I'm sorry this happened, take what you want in the divorce" to "talk to my attorney, I will see you in court".
> 
> The other man's wife is not his problem, he's got to save himself.


Donders

Why do you think telling the OMW makes her his problem or a problem ?

You forget one thing, he has her pets!

And she is more concerned about them than her own husband.

Did anyone say take hostages???

It is all about the leverage. The pets, outing her to her family.

Why it can most certainly be an amicable D.

HM64


----------



## Entropy3000

Whether he does or not is his call but I would notify the OMW. 

I would not have to justify why to anyone. For one thing ... it is the right thing to do. I would feel obligated to tell the OMW for her benefit.

The folks who should be held accountable for their actions are his wife AND the OM. They are culpable.You mess with another man's wife you take your chances. So telling the OMW is both the right and just thing to do.

Again I am amazed at those who wish to champion the cheaters bill of rights and not hold anyone accountable.

Making choices in life is not always about avoiding conflict.


----------



## donders

Entropy3000 said:


> Making choices in life is not always about avoiding conflict.


Perhaps in some cases, conflict is unavoidable.

This marriage is over. At this point his goal, which is reasonable, is to get through this as quickly, and inexpensively as possible and that definitely means avoiding unecessary conflict.

That may mean holding no one accountable for the cheating.

So what?

She is very soon going to no longer be his problem. At least, it will be sooner if things don't turn ugly because he "upholds his moral obligation" to some stranger who just happened to have the misfortune of being married to the guy that screwed this guy's wife.


----------



## Shamwow

If I recall correctly, he's already sent the OMW a FB message, just hasn't heard back yet.

So the point is currently moot.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.


----------



## Entropy3000

donders said:


> Perhaps in some cases, conflict is unavoidable.
> 
> This marriage is over. At this point his goal, which is reasonable, is to get through this as quickly, and inexpensively as possible and that definitely means avoiding unecessary conflict.
> 
> That may mean holding no one accountable for the cheating.
> 
> So what?
> 
> She is very soon going to no longer be his problem. At least, it will be sooner if things don't turn ugly because he "upholds his moral obligation" to some stranger who just happened to have the misfortune of being married to the guy that screwed this guy's wife.


This is your opinion. You are welcome to it. I live by different rules than you. So what back to you. I think he owes the OMW this courtesy. I think he also owes the OM something other than ok take my wife please.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shamwow said:


> If I recall correctly, he's already sent the OMW a FB message, just hasn't heard back yet.
> 
> So the point is currently moot.
> 
> We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## donders

Entropy3000 said:


> This is your opinion. You are welcome to it. I live by different rules than you. So what back to you. I think he owes the OMW this courtesy. I think he also owes the OM something other than ok take my wife please.


He doesn't "owe" the OM anything. The OM took his wife, further contact is pointless.

When it comes to "common courtesy" why stop at the betrayed spouses? Why not give money to the poor? Help other people who have undergone some sort of misfortune? Work in soup kitchens?

Etc.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Perhaps this thread can get back on topic seeing as it's water under the bridge (he's already sent a FB message).


----------



## Entropy3000

donders said:


> He doesn't "owe" the OM anything. The OM took his wife, further contact is pointless.
> 
> When it comes to "common courtesy" why stop at the betrayed spouses? Why not give money to the poor? Help other people who have undergone some sort of misfortune? Work in soup kitchens?
> 
> Etc.


You and I fundamentally disagree about .... LIFE period.

The events surrounding this betrayal touch him directly. The betrayal was both by his wife and the OM. He gets to decide.

Another man indeed took his wife. He owes him just as sure if another man hurt his family or him in any other way. Taking another man's wife is not a right of anyone. It is something to be held accountable for. Being a poacher is something that should be dealt with.

But surely if another man is inapparopriate with your wife and you choose to think he has that right, then good for you. Another man makes a move on my wife he is at risk. I hold people accountable. I hold myself accountable as well.

Certainly a man who wishes to go after married women would like this to be the case.

I did not say he should go scorched earth on the OM, though I certainly would personally. But the right thing to do is to tell the OMW. We can disagree all you want. He certainly should not take his actions to placate the wife. That puts too much power in her hands. She is the one who cheated.

YMMV.


----------



## donders

Entropy3000 said:


> But surely if another man is inapparopriate with your wife and you choose to think he has that right, then good for you. Another man makes a move on my wife he is at risk. I hold people accountable. I hold myself accountable as well.
> 
> YMMV.


It's completely up to your wife as to whether or not some guy has the right to be inappropriate with her.

You are trying to hold the other guy accountable.

He's not the problem here, only a symptom.


----------



## Harken Banks

Entropy3000 said:


> You and I fundamentally disagree about .... LIFE period.
> 
> The events surrounding this betrayal touch him directly. The betrayal was both by his wife and the OM. He gets to decide.
> 
> Another man indeed took his wife. He owes him just as sure if another man hurt his family or him in any other way. Taking another man's wife is not a right of anyone. It is something to be held accountable for. Be a poacher is something that should be dealt with.
> 
> But surely if another man is inapparopriate with your wife and you choose to think he has that right, then good for you. Another man makes a move on my wife he is at risk. I hold people accountable. I hold myself accountable as well.
> 
> YMMV.


Could not agree more. OP and others like him are also uniquely informed and uniquely positioned to be able to do this simple decency. The argument is silly.


----------



## donders

Harken Banks said:


> Could not agree more. OP and others like him are also uniquely informed and uniquely positioned to be able to do this simple decency. The argument is silly.


That simple decency could be the difference between a fast, easy cheap divorce and his worst nightmare.

No thanks.

He's got the right idea to play it cool and just be indifferent and move on and I hope he maintains that mindset.


----------



## Entropy3000

WorkingOnMe said:


> Perhaps this thread can get back on topic seeing as it's water under the bridge (he's already sent a FB message).


I will do my part. I will not post on this any more and will just adjust my block setting now.


----------



## Harken Banks

donders said:


> That simple decency could be the difference between a fast, easy cheap divorce and his worst nightmare.
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> He's got the right idea to play it cool and just be indifferent and move on and I hope he maintains that mindset.


It is clearly up to OP, but (i) the Sally Struthers analogy is fatuous and (ii) there, but for the grace of God. Decency.


----------



## Harken Banks

Entropy3000 said:


> I will do my part. I will not post on this any more and will just adjust my block setting now.


I will bow out too for now, but I think this is where the thread is.


----------



## Greg40

It's been a bad 24 hours.

I can't seem to sleep. At least not for very long. Its totally turned my day on its head. I eventually took a Tylonal PM and slept from 10.30am to 3.pm, crap, I'm sleeping through the main part of a regular day now  My eyes feel tired but my head wont switch my brain off and even when it does it's not for long.

I'm going to book an appointment at the docs and worry about the lawyer in a few days, I need something to get me to sleep.

I also can't eat, I've dropped 7lbs, in 4 days. First meal of the day, a tiny bowl of french beans 

The real worry I'm having right now do not concern the OMW I'm afraid, it's the sudden realization that wife leaving me means I'm going to be very alone for a very long time in a "technically" foreign country. I've no support from friends while I try to get over this because we never made any friends. We just worked on our business and had each other.

The thought of waking up every morning without my wife, in an empty house that I now can't afford, to motivating myself in a business that I don't want to be in, to knowing that making any real friends at 40 is incredibly difficult is looking like a mountainous task in my current head space.


If I go back to the UK, I have a very supportive family but no job, no income, no home of my own, no car or possessions, just the clothes on my back. Its seems mountainous either way I look.


She's back tomorrow, I told her to get a cab back from the airport. It's probably not safe for me to drive very far anyway.


The loneliness right now is making me very depressed and the thought of being alone for maybe the next 6 - 12 months is horrible. 

I'm tempted to just leave the country and go back to the UK. She can deal with the house, its underwater anyway so I'm not losing anything. My US credit will get hit real bad but, I doubt I'll ever be coming back.


I wish I did feel an obligation to tell the OMW immediately but, I need to get out clean here. Either by just leaving the country because I can't handle this with no-one around me or somehow trying to make it work here in this county on my own. 

I'm prepared to take that risk that OM isn't going to tell his wife for a week or so, if he ever does.

The way I'm feeling now, if she were to suggest R would seem a deal worth thinking about. 

Accept her treachery and work on the marriage in exchange for not being horribly alone in this foreign land.


----------



## Entropy3000

Get to the doctor and get some meds for your depression.

Do not consider R out of feeling alone. That just leads to worse and worse hurt. Start looking at making a new life. Getting regular sleep is easy for me to say but it is critical for you now.


----------



## betamale

Ask your doctor about Paxil. It will help you not to see things so dark as you think they're.


----------



## kenmoore14217

Get to the Dr. asap please !!


----------



## Falene

Greg, don't make me track you down and smack you in the head.

THIS MOMENT WILL PASS! I promise. Do NOT make decisions based upon how you are feeling now. I guarantee, no matter what they are, you will regret them. You need time to process.

You are worthy of so much more. You deserved a wife that never would cheat on you. You deserve a wife that falls apart and does everything possible to sooth and comfort you if she does cheat on you.

If you accept anything less than what you deserve you will be preventing the good things in life from coming your way. Do not settle.

We both know that the worse thing in the world is not being in a foreign country alone or in a business you have no interest in. You are living through the worst thing a non-parent could ever go through.

You have no control over your wife. If you did, you would not be where you are now. You must accept that. You do not have to agree with it but you must accept that. She needs to come back crawling to you, not the other way around.

You don't need to make any decisions right now. Not about anything. Focus on the day, try and do something to improve your mental attitude (even a walk can do wonders). Breathe.

The answers will come. Decisions will be made. Now is not the time for either. You have one hell of a day on your calendar tomorrow. Do what you can to put yourself in a place today that helps you get through it.

Please keep us up to date...I am worrying about you.


----------



## Greg40

Whats the easiest way to see a doctor ? I called a few up and they weren't able to see me today.

Some said, call back tomorrow at 7.30am. I've just taken another Tylanol for a few more hours sleep.


----------



## husbandfool

Can the marriage ... ugh!


There are brighter days ahead.
Can you change your job situation? This would help you meet new people.


----------



## kenmoore14217

There must be clinics in your area. You have insurance correct? Usually you just have to show up!


----------



## Shamwow

kenmoore14217 said:


> There must be clinics in your area. You have insurance correct? Usually you just have to show up!


Yep, walk-in clinic. If you are absolutely in a pinch, go to the emergency room at your local hospital, someone will see you fairly promptly. Hopefully you have insurance, but either way a brief consultation with a doc and receiving some advice and a mild prescription or two won't cost you too much ($100-$200?).

Do it now. You need your strength for what it to come, and sleep is the most important thing, next - food. Anything. Soup, can of tuna, baked potato, pizza, whatever. The healthier the better, but at least eat something.


----------



## Shamwow

Also try to go for a long walk, like an hour or two. Get the blood moving. You'll feel better, and you'll be more apt to sleep easier.


----------



## Shamwow

Sounds like your business is online in nature? Can you maintain it from the UK?


----------



## kenmoore14217

Shamwow said:


> Sounds like your business is online in nature? Can you maintain it from the UK?


I was curious about this myself


----------



## MattMatt

Greg, should you decide to come back to the UK, we'll keep the beer warm for you. Oops! Sorry, at cellar temperature, of course!

I hope you can find the right way for you, through this mess.


----------



## Shamwow

Greg40 said:


> The way I'm feeling now, if she were to suggest R would seem a deal worth thinking about.
> 
> Accept her treachery and work on the marriage in exchange for not being horribly alone in this foreign land.


Totally understand the change in mood, and hopeful thoughts on R, this is normal. I experienced that and struggled to keep my brain in charge, not my hopeful heart...as have many others here. But...remember to do what's best for you. You know staying in a one-sided relationship will only make you more unhappy and unfulfilled over time.

If for some reason she initates a discussion about it, let her speak her piece and consider it. But if you bring it up, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

It's going to be really hard for a while, no matter what. But please don't jump into trying to make it work, especially after the cold "form letter" email she sent..


----------



## Patrick1959

Greg

You have a lot going on and there is no reason to make any long term decisions now. There doesn't seem to be anything that you need to do urgently, other then to take care of your health. 

Sleep deprivation can have profound effects on mood, when you have had a good sleep (8-10 hours) your reasoning will improve. Don't make any long term plans until you have had at least 3-4 days in a normal sleep pattern. Tylenol PM contains benadryl which can have some persistent fatiguing effects. What would probably work better is 3-5 nights using Restoril or Ambien, but you can't get that over the counter and you would need a prescription. 

An antidepressant may help but it may take a couple weeks to have a significant effect. After getting some restful sleep, you should consider starting an aerobic exercise program. Running for 30 - 60 minutes per day will do a lot to help with stress and depression; as well as helping you sleep better at night, but running late in the evening may interfere with getting to sleep. Also stay away from drinking alcohol. 

I agree with your concern about finding a social support group, many churches have counseling and support groups to help those coping with divorce. Since you are from England you may be more comfortable with an Anglican Church, or Catholic Church; the Anglican Church close to my home has several British families. 

Reading your wife's message reminds me of someone in an intoxicated state, the affair that she is in probably is releasing neurotransmitters that can in some ways have an effect almost like taking a drug or alcohol. When the OMW discovers what the OM has been doing the dynamics of the affair will likely change and this may have a sobering effect upon your wife. 

Soon you will likely find yourself living in a home with another very depressed person; which is sometimes a very bad situation. It may be best to read through the 180 program and pay attention to the sections about what not to do or say. Remember that you can be very firm with your wife and maintain dignity and respect. Also if an argument begins this may be a good time to go for a long brisk walk and return when you are in a better frame of mind.


----------



## betamale

Can't you go to the Emergency Room? Tell the doctor that you can't sleep and that the stress is starting to hurt physically.


----------



## iheartlife

betamale said:


> Can't you go to the Emergency Room? Tell the doctor that you can't sleep and that the stress is starting to hurt physically.


Yes, or an urgent care clinic.


----------



## Patrick1959

Greg 

Are there any urgent or acute care clinics in your area? You may find one locally by using the yellow pages or an on line search. Some Walmarts are opening acute care clinics in the stores that have Physician Assistants or Nurse Practitioners who may be able to prescribe something to help you start feeling.


----------



## Mr steal your girl

F.u.kk that bittch...she cheated on you. Since you have dual citizenship, you should just leave and bounce and never look back. She did you dirty, now its time to do her dirty. 

Eat a good hot meal and hit the next flight to the UK. Also eat a plant based diet. Stay away from the prescription pills, it's a money making joke.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Greg,
Stop thinking like that.
Don't let this woman get to you man.
Please listen to those guys here. They have been there before, and came through.
Eat , get some rest, see a doctor if necessary.


----------



## Thewife

Sorry you are not well, my brother just went through a similar situation as yours. He flew to my place and has been with me for the past 2 months. It really helped him regain confidence. 

Would you be able to take a short break in UK with your family till you feel better. It would be better not to make any decision when you head is spinning in all the direction at the same time. Give yourself a break and decide when you are calm and clear.


----------



## spudster

You got burned by a typical entitled American female. 

Head back to England and find yourself a nice English girl who'll treat you right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sharkeey

Greg40 said:


> The way I'm feeling now, if she were to suggest R would seem a deal worth thinking about.
> 
> Accept her treachery and work on the marriage in exchange for not being horribly alone in this foreign land.


Don't do it man. Wait for the feelings of desperation to pass and your head will clear and you'll be thinking rationally again.

You'd be selling your soul to the Devil. It doesn't appear the Devil is interested in purchasing anyway but if she has a change of heart don't make it easy for her.


----------



## Greg40

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Today was a day where the gravity of the situation hit me and its only been 2 days since I told her that I knew about her EA.

I thought it had been at least 3 days, man sleep deprivation really takes it out of a person. 

The day I accused her, I was feeling optimistic afterwards. A new start wouldn't be the end of the world, etc etc. But this morning, just a major downer, the only physical things to be able to give comfort are our dogs and she'll be taking those soon.

She has said that she will move out. Part of me wonders if she should stay. Not to R, I think we're really really past that. But so the house isn't so empty while I make some plans.

I'm going to get to the clinic, pick up some tins of soup too.


----------



## Shamwow

You sound very down. That's understandable. I hope you're avoiding alcohol right now, you have to get clarity. Exercise HARD and eat/drink well. It will feel like a nauseous adrenaline rush, because of the stress of the situation, but you'll come to like it, because your body is taking care of the situation for you. Not to sound lame, just saying it will really build you up, and when could you possibly need that more than now?

Don't commit to anything with your W until you get some clarity. I also like the idea of you taking a trip home to the UK for a few days or a week. You want your W in the house for company...do you? Really? Don't you think those evenings pretending to be all good will get to you before too long?

Be calm, rather indifferent, and independent from your W when you see her tomorrow. Think George Clooney in Ocean's Eleven.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

donders said:


> He's not "morally bound" to do ANYTHING
> 
> Greg please do not listen to advice such as this and realize you are getting responses from people who have been cheated on and very hurt and can not deal with their unresolved feelings of anger and betrayal.
> 
> You have the right idea. Maintain an indifferent exterior attitude, limit your contact with her and proceed with an amicable, and inexpensive and fast divorce so you can get on with your life.
> 
> Do NOT do anything to antagonize her and make things ugly. You have accepted the marriage is over, you intend to take the high road and avoid drama and revenge and your strategy is spot on regardless of what you hear from the members of this board.


----------



## Dollystanford

Don't beat yourself up about feeling like this - it's only been a few days! It's inevitable and it's a real rollercoaster ride for a while. I cried for three weeks and during those three weeks would have taken him back in a heartbeat....and damn that would have been the biggest mistake EVER. 

Then I found TAM, went to stay with my mum for a week and pulled myself together.....because I'd rather be on my own than with someone that has so little respect for me that they'd rather be speaking to some random on the internet than speaking to the one they are supposed to love

I deserved better, so do you - being alone ain't so bad you know

and $100 - $200 for a prescription?  dude, come back to England STAT


----------



## MattMatt

Mr steal your girl said:


> F.u.kk that bittch...she cheated on you. Since you have dual citizenship, you should just leave and bounce and never look back. She did you dirty, now its time to do her dirty.
> 
> Eat a good hot meal and hit the next flight to the UK. Also eat a plant based diet. Stay away from the prescription pills, it's a money making joke.


Becoming a vegetarian and refusing to take medication? Not entirely sure that works in every case for every problem.

Besides which, as every Brit knows, a doorstop bacon sarnie and a mug of tea will always help.


----------



## ing

MattMatt said:


> Becoming a vegetarian and refusing to take medication? Not entirely sure that works in every case for every problem.
> 
> Besides which, as every Brit knows, a doorstop bacon sarnie and a mug of tea will always help.


It doesn't help. It cures everything. Defeats the Dictators and holds back the damned french. 

Mug of Tea + Bacon sarnie [with HP] = World Domination.

If only the world would listen again..

Go make one Greg.


----------



## Greg40

5 hours in the hospital for some sleeping tablets, I hope Ambien are good ones.

I'm going to do some therapy too, which as a Brit, I've never done. You'd ask for a smack before Therapy.

I must have looked suicidal in there or said the wrong thing because they had me with a social worker for hours.

Oh well it passed the evening and being in a hospital surrounded by different folk made me realize that I've become too used to the quiet and isolated home office. 

Mrs is back soon, so that to do, then I'm going to see if there's anything voluntary going on in my area...something with animals might be cool.

But first, tablets and sleep.

G'dnight all. Sleep well.


----------



## Chaparral

Prayers for you Greg40. It sounds trite but things will not only get better but a lot better than before. Here is an excerpt from a fellow in an even worse stituation. He is in the private members section, 

Hunter411:

Quote:
Originally Posted by happyman64 
I do not know Hunter if meeting her is worth the drama.

Do you really see you getting anything out of meeting with her.

You said it yourself that she apologizes in one text and then blows up at you with the next text.

It shows she has not fully felt any remorse yet or guilt.

She is just starting to feel the consequences of her actions.

Her life is going to get worse.

Truly sad, because she s just starting to get a glimpse of what she has lost.

Stay strong and push her to sign the divorce papers so you get the closure you deserve. 


Hunters reply:

HM64, I agree 100% and Im totally done talking to her unless its about actual details of the D. She knows she screwed the pooch and the more I ignore her and be happy, the heavier a toll it takes on her. My revenge isnt proving something I already know, nope. My revenge will be being the happiest Mother Frocker you have ever met without her anywhere around, travelling, doing everything that she didnt want me to do that I like, and always with a female friend/companion. Its a win/win. Its kind of strange, getting screwed over like I have has actually made me a stronger, happier, nicer, more compassionate person. Not what I expected. 

I know without any doubt she has not slept with any my true friends. Most of my current group of friends I have known for over 30 years. From what I have learned her pattern was to screw around with a guy while introducing them to me to become friends. I guess to keep me from getting suspicious? It didnt work. Its a red flag the when your introduced to OM for the first time and supposed to be only the second time the wife has met him, he says "I started to wonder if she really was married as many times as shes showed up here and you werent with her. I thought she was making you up". Dday was shortly after that.... OM wasnt the brightest bulb in the pack either...


----------



## Dollystanford

Don't worry about rushing into therapy either (from one brit to another). Give yourself a chance to come to terms with it first and see how you feel in a few weeks - it's very early days

I found that I was just feeling a bit down and alone sometimes but had no need for anti-depressants. I missed him less and less each day and got more and more hopeful about the future. You're a young guy, see it as an opportunity to start afresh

And it's ketchup with a bacon sandwich and HP with a sausage sandwich, honestly the advice you get in this place is useless sometimes


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Don't worry the alimony and child support this guy will envision having to pay will very likely knock some sense into him very soon.


----------



## donders

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Don't worry the alimony and child support this guy will envision having to pay will very likely knock some sense into him very soon.


That's exactly why he doesn't want to antagonize her by taking the bad advice of many people which is to expose and tell the other man's wife, etc.

He can get out of this marriage very cleanly maybe with no alimony at all and take advantage of her guilt. 

She's already making it easier by leaving rather than telling him to leave or fighting it out with the courts.

Hang in there man


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

donders said:


> That's exactly why he doesn't want to antagonize her by taking the bad advice of many people which is to expose and tell the other man's wife, etc.


Are we going down this road again? He's already contacted her, which is still the right thing to do.


----------



## donders

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Are we going down this road again? He's already contacted her, which is still the right thing to do.


He did?

I guess we'll see what effect that has on her willingness to give him an easy and fast divorce.

I have no problem being wrong.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> Prayers for you Greg40. It sounds trite but things will not only get better but a lot better than before. Here is an excerpt from a fellow in an even worse stituation. He is in the private members section,
> 
> Hunter411:
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by happyman64
> I do not know Hunter if meeting her is worth the drama.
> 
> Do you really see you getting anything out of meeting with her.
> 
> You said it yourself that she apologizes in one text and then blows up at you with the next text.
> 
> It shows she has not fully felt any remorse yet or guilt.
> 
> She is just starting to feel the consequences of her actions.
> 
> Her life is going to get worse.
> 
> Truly sad, because she s just starting to get a glimpse of what she has lost.
> 
> Stay strong and push her to sign the divorce papers so you get the closure you deserve.
> 
> 
> Hunters reply:
> 
> HM64, I agree 100% and Im totally done talking to her unless its about actual details of the D. She knows she screwed the pooch and the more I ignore her and be happy, the heavier a toll it takes on her. My revenge isnt proving something I already know, nope. My revenge will be being the happiest Mother Frocker you have ever met without her anywhere around, travelling, doing everything that she didnt want me to do that I like, and always with a female friend/companion. Its a win/win. Its kind of strange, getting screwed over like I have has actually made me a stronger, happier, nicer, more compassionate person. Not what I expected.
> 
> I know without any doubt she has not slept with any my true friends. Most of my current group of friends I have known for over 30 years. From what I have learned her pattern was to screw around with a guy while introducing them to me to become friends. I guess to keep me from getting suspicious? It didnt work. Its a red flag the when your introduced to OM for the first time and supposed to be only the second time the wife has met him, he says "I started to wonder if she really was married as many times as shes showed up here and you werent with her. I thought she was making you up". Dday was shortly after that.... OM wasnt the brightest bulb in the pack either...



Yeah, he sounds to be in a better place and although I don't know his story, from what I can see from his reply above, she was a piece of work.


----------



## Greg40

Dollystanford said:


> Don't worry about rushing into therapy either (from one brit to another). Give yourself a chance to come to terms with it first and see how you feel in a few weeks - it's very early days
> 
> I found that I was just feeling a bit down and alone sometimes but had no need for anti-depressants. I missed him less and less each day and got more and more hopeful about the future. You're a young guy, see it as an opportunity to start afresh
> 
> And it's ketchup with a bacon sandwich and HP with a sausage sandwich, honestly the advice you get in this place is useless sometimes


The only reason to do it now is to give me someone local who I can physically talk to that Isn't the Mrs.

At the moment I'm seeing it as somewhat of and opportunity but also giant pain in the ass.

lol on the bacon .... you have to special order HP over here, they dont know what theyre missing out on.


----------



## Almostrecovered

hope you got some sleep Greg and are feeling stronger


----------



## Almostrecovered

and here's a nice little distraction for you

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/social-spot/47836-make-fun-brits-thread.html


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Don't worry the alimony and child support this guy will envision having to pay will very likely knock some sense into him very soon.



The social worker at the hospital yesterday said "hmm, they really haven't thought this through at all have they".

Which gave me a little chuckle.


----------



## happyman64

And I know you Brits have your own version of superior English...

But this is universal in any language.



> You'd ask for a smack before Therapy.


Here is a big smack for you!!!!


----------



## Greg40

donders said:


> He did?
> 
> I guess we'll see what effect that has on her willingness to give him an easy and fast divorce.
> 
> I have no problem being wrong.



Yeah I contacted OMW a few days back but to be honest I don't think she's got it yet because WW hasn't blown up the phone asking what the hell I'm doing lol.

To be honest, I'm not going to bust my back repeatedly contacting OMW until I know where I stand with WW.

I need to install a keylogger before she gets back - not to snoop on their tawdry relationship but to get the gist of where they are now.

I want to see whether he's trying to delay or not.


----------



## SomedayDig

greg40 said:


> yeah i contacted omw a few days back but to be honest i don't think she's got it yet because ww hasn't blown up the phone asking what the hell i'm doing lol.
> 
> To be honest, i'm not going to bust my back repeatedly contacting onw until i know where i stand with ww.
> 
> I need to install a keylogger before she gets back - not to snoop on their tawdry relationship but to get the gist of where they are now.
> 
> *i want to see whether he's trying to delay or not.*


exactly!!


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> It's been a bad 24 hours.
> 
> I can't seem to sleep. At least not for very long. Its totally turned my day on its head. I eventually took a Tylonal PM and slept from 10.30am to 3.pm, crap, I'm sleeping through the main part of a regular day now  My eyes feel tired but my head wont switch my brain off and even when it does it's not for long.
> 
> I'm going to book an appointment at the docs and worry about the lawyer in a few days, I need something to get me to sleep.
> 
> I also can't eat, I've dropped 7lbs, in 4 days. First meal of the day, a tiny bowl of french beans
> 
> The real worry I'm having right now do not concern the OMW I'm afraid, it's the sudden realization that wife leaving me means I'm going to be very alone for a very long time in a "technically" foreign country. I've no support from friends while I try to get over this because we never made any friends. We just worked on our business and had each other.
> 
> The thought of waking up every morning without my wife, in an empty house that I now can't afford, to motivating myself in a business that I don't want to be in, to knowing that making any real friends at 40 is incredibly difficult is looking like a mountainous task in my current head space.
> 
> 
> If I go back to the UK, I have a very supportive family but no job, no income, no home of my own, no car or possessions, just the clothes on my back. Its seems mountainous either way I look.
> 
> 
> She's back tomorrow, I told her to get a cab back from the airport. It's probably not safe for me to drive very far anyway.
> 
> 
> The loneliness right now is making me very depressed and the thought of being alone for maybe the next 6 - 12 months is horrible.
> 
> I'm tempted to just leave the country and go back to the UK. She can deal with the house, its underwater anyway so I'm not losing anything. My US credit will get hit real bad but, I doubt I'll ever be coming back.
> 
> 
> I wish I did feel an obligation to tell the OMW immediately but, I need to get out clean here. Either by just leaving the country because I can't handle this with no-one around me or somehow trying to make it work here in this county on my own.
> 
> I'm prepared to take that risk that OM isn't going to tell his wife for a week or so, if he ever does.
> 
> The way I'm feeling now, if she were to suggest R would seem a deal worth thinking about.
> 
> Accept her treachery and work on the marriage in exchange for not being horribly alone in this foreign land.


First of all, you have friends here. We are here to support each other during these difficult time and beyond. No matter what you decide to do, nobody here will judge you. We all do things that are sometimes not popular among the masses, but they work for us. So if after a while, you feel you want to R, then do it. We do however want to know how it is going. We'll give you our opinions and support throughout your difficult time...and i'll even throw in a prayer, that you may go through this process with as little pain as possible.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

When she gets back that will be the first face to face meeting since all of this went down. It's bound to be a lot tougher than what has gone on over the phone and the computer. Just stay strong and most importantly take care of yourself. You find yourself seriously ill if you don't.


----------



## warlock07

Greg go check Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup .Might fins some interests in your local group.


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> When she gets back that will be the first face to face meeting since all of this went down. It's bound to be a lot tougher than what has gone on over the phone and the computer. Just stay strong and most importantly take care of yourself. You find yourself seriously ill if you don't.


Yeah, I'm not looking forward to it at all, she'll be here in two hours.

I figure I'll take the dogs for a long walk and not be here when she gets here. Let her settle in for an hour.

In my head, it's going to go reasonably amicable, I got 6 hours sleep last night which isn't bad and feel quite settled.

We'll see though and i'll let you all know how this first F2F went.


----------



## Greg40

warlock07 said:


> Greg go check Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup .Might fins some interests in your local group.



I've been looking at that site. For the available time I'm going to have it's a toss up between something there and some animal volunteer work....which sounds somewhat good because their affections are unconditional lol...what could be better..


----------



## KanDo

Good luck my friend. I promise it will get better. Forget the therapy for now. A little ambien will help with the sleep. I wish you had seen the attorney already but, stay strong.


----------



## Shaggy

Btw tonight she sleeps on the couch.

Or is it possible he is coming into town to "support her"?


----------



## ing

The keylogger is a great idea. Getting a back channel will help you counter what I expect to be a concerted effort to cover her tracks. Not because she really gives a **** at the moment but because guilt will eat her up when she sees you.
Protect yourself. Very many horrible things will be said to you and they will hurt. 

You may need THIS too..


----------



## happyman64

Greg40 said:


> Yeah, I'm not looking forward to it at all, she'll be here in two hours.
> 
> I figure I'll take the dogs for a long walk and not be here when she gets here. Let her settle in for an hour.
> 
> In my head, it's going to go reasonably amicable, I got 6 hours sleep last night which isn't bad and feel quite settled.
> 
> We'll see though and i'll let you all know how this first F2F went.


Just keep calm.

Control your emotions and listen. Your gut will tell you all you need to know.

And one other thing, throw her phone in the sink full of water. 

That sends a clear message.


----------



## donders

Avoid the urge to beg and plead with her to stay with you.


----------



## Shamwow

donders said:


> Avoid the urge to beg and plead with her to stay with you.


This. Above all else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Dollystanford said:


> Don't worry about rushing into therapy either (from one brit to another). Give yourself a chance to come to terms with it first and see how you feel in a few weeks - it's very early days
> 
> I found that I was just feeling a bit down and alone sometimes but had no need for anti-depressants. I missed him less and less each day and got more and more hopeful about the future. You're a young guy, see it as an opportunity to start afresh
> 
> And it's ketchup with a bacon sandwich and HP with a sausage sandwich, honestly the advice you get in this place is useless sometimes


I am a Daddy's Sauce or HP with bacon kind of a guy, too. Ketchup? Hmm... Not entirely certain about that!


----------



## SomedayDig

Geeeeze! If you guys gotta put sauce on your meat, how good is your meat?!!!

LOL


----------



## Shamwow

SomedayDig said:


> Geeeeze! If you guys gotta put sauce on your meat, how good is your meat?!!!
> 
> LOL


Ha! Having recently come back from a trip to the UK, I'll say the food was quite good. But the US has nothing worry about when it comes to meat. Especially beef.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

DO NOT LET HER SEE YOU CRY. Wayard wives are disgusted when the husband they cheat on breaks down. It just makes them feel better to be getting away from a weak man. (in their eyes)

Be sure to read Married Man Sex Life. Absolute must.


----------



## Shamwow

Greg, I really hope things are going okay...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Greg40

Yesterday wasn't a good day, thanks to all those that gave advice and encouragement. The resulting Ambien gave me a reasonable 6.5 hours sleep  and the 2 hour dog walk prior to WW's return allowed me to think about my approach. How to keep calm during our first meet and make some headway into amicably dismantling our life together.


I think everyone knows that failing R (which I would possibly consider due to circumstances) that I want to get out as financially unharmed as possible, with minor legal involvement. I feel that since we don't have children that there is no reason for us to be bogged down in long and expensive legal battles over sofas, dvds and linens which will end up costing us 100 times more than they're worth.


So we sat down in the garden and I waited for her to start.

It was the usual start I suspect, she said how sorry she was, It wasn't planned, this wasn't to do with the OM, how we both shared some blame.

I remembered to remain calm and said "even though you say it has nothing to do with OM, which I'll never really know, the blame is still all yours."

She nods 

I continue "One of your jobs is to tell me when you are unhappy. If you did, it clearly wasn't as obvious as you thought it was. If it was something I was doing or not doing, i should have been told that if i didn't address it, it was making you unhappy enough to consider leaving me. It's meant to be a wake up call, not a bunch of cryptic clues over several months that I'm meant to fathom out. And that I missed them does not justify you stepping out of our marriage to have an EA thinking I'm to blame for your actions."

She says nothing, but nods. I know she knows she's wrong. I guess some of these phrases come out of every cheating spouse at some point or another. It's hard to counter argue the absolute truth, which is whatever you think, you cheated....and in the end she didn't counter.



She asks what my plans are and I say, "you first, this is your doing".

She says _"I don't really have any plans. I'm prepared to move out and will likely get a 6 month lease in the area." She said "If it had anything to do with OM, I would move nearer to where he is"_ (which is approx 1000 miles away).

I read that as "If I move out tomorrow I think I need about 3 months after we meet in December to see if me and OM are going to work out before I move to his state".



I ask if OM has told his wife yet.

She says _"no"_. (As we suspected)

Personally, I would suspect if OM had told his wife, WW's plans would still be to get a 6 month lease but for it to be nearer OM...... Who can say.




I ask her what the plan is if OM doesn't tell his wife. 

She says _"I'm not doing this because of OM, I've not been happy for a while, this would have happened anyway. If he doesn't tell her, we wont meet"_

I say that if she hasn't considered this already, that If OM hasn't told his wife by the time you meet up, you are likely going to make a very stupid decision and not hear from him much again afterwards. There will be delays and excuses but it wont pan out the way you think. She says she wouldn't do anything physical with OM unless he's told wife. 

This of course isn't that convincing. We will likely have a completed divorce by then which makes her "single" and able to make any silly decisions she likes.



I ask her if she has really given any lucid thought to the reality of OM giving up his children. That you have no experience with children, you didn't want them yourself. Additionally that they will likely hate you.

She says she had but didn't expand at all. I probably should have asked more questions here but to what end.



I ask her if she has told her parents, she said she has.

With that answer, I know that R isn't an option. There would be no need to tell anyone if you felt that even a morsel of you might want R. She said that she was honest with her parents and that she had had an EA.

I could test this by talking to them myself, but while I was listening to her talking and looking at her across the room, it dawned on me........I wasn't as angry or upset as I thought Id be. 

This realization partly lead to the following decisions regarding our circumstance. As it stands now at least.





Although she is prepared to move out and pay her half of our mortgage in addition to rental on a new apartment, she admits it would be a financial strain. So she's going to stay in a separate bedroom in our current home while we sell the house. The house will go on the market in about a month.


Maybe It would be better If she fully left. But as i sit here typing this and watching TV, she is at the computer next to me. She could be typing to OM or doing work....I don't know and I'm finding that I don't care as much as I thought I would. I'm not sure if this is just relief....relief that I wont be on my own in a few days like I though I would. I guess I will have to find out because at the moment, we seem very relaxed with the situation. Maybe our relationship really did end up being like " A best friends scenario" and I didn't even recognize it.


We are going to split everything as cleanly as possible. And we are researching the most cost effective Divorce. It might even be self file.


For the time being, we will continue to run the business as we always have. It's a little too complicated to untangle over a few days. We really need a few months.


While my parents are here, she will go to a local Extended stay hotel for two weeks.


That's as far as we've got so far. There wasn't a spiteful word or between us. She teared up for a few seconds but that was really it.


I'm not saying that I don't feel betrayed and angry, I do. Eventually however, the house will sell and we will be divorced. 



One of the main benefits here is time. 

We will have the chance to slowly adjust the business as necessary, build some new friends (I've already started contacting various volunteer groups) and "hopefully" leave each other amicably and cost effectively.


I thought about some of the forum threads I've followed over the last few days. How some people had been subject to their partners PA's, sometimes multiple and very intense and they still found the ability to forgive their WS and rebuild their lives together (for better or worse).


So, while some might think I've gone completely insane and have let her get away with ruining our marriage (and I can understand that) some might read this outcome and see that considering our circumstances a divorce shouldn't be as complicated, time consuming or downright unpleasant as it could be if we let it.

We're not rebuilding our relationship to where it was. We're just getting out.

Naturally, this all might change tomorrow lol. I don't think we've covered the range of emotions that a couple in an 8 year marriage should have done. 

But tomorrow, tomorrows my first time in therapy


----------



## Malaise

I'm sorry to hear all of that.

However, I don't believe her when she says it has nothing to do with the OM and that it would have happened anyway. Pure bullsh!t. 

I also don't believe she told her parents.

Just my opinion.

Sorry again


----------



## Greg40

Malaise said:


> I'm sorry to hear all of that.
> 
> However, I don't believe her when she says it has nothing to do with the OM and that it would have happened anyway. Pure bullsh!t.
> 
> I also don't believe she told her parents.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Sorry again


Agreed, I think that if there were no OM, she would have acted differently. Maybe she would have carried on dropping a few hints of unhappiness here and there but, there certainly wouldn't have been anything for me to find out that forced the issue.

As for parents, again I agree. I don't think she's honest enough with emotional matters to tell her parents that she had an EA.

Maybe I will call them to say goodbye. Nothing wrong with that, I've known them for 8 years, would be rude not to lol. I'm betting they're surprised. 

We'll see, I can hold that for another day.



.


----------



## Mike11

Greg40 said:


> Yesterday wasn't a good day, thanks to all those that gave advice and encouragement. The resulting Ambien gave me a reasonable 6.5 hours sleep  and the 2 hour dog walk prior to WW's return allowed me to think about my approach. How to keep calm during our first meet and make some headway into amicably dismantling our life together.
> 
> 
> I think everyone knows that failing R (which I would possibly consider due to circumstances) that I want to get out as financially unharmed as possible, with minor legal involvement. I feel that since we don't have children that there is no reason for us to be bogged down in long and expensive legal battles over sofas, dvds and linens which will end up costing us 100 times more than they're worth.
> 
> 
> So we sat down in the garden and I waited for her to start.
> 
> It was the usual start I suspect, she said how sorry she was, It wasn't planned, this wasn't to do with the OM, how we both shared some blame.
> 
> I remembered to remain calm and said "even though you say it has nothing to do with OM, which I'll never really know, the blame is still all yours."
> 
> She nods
> 
> I continue "One of your jobs is to tell me when you are unhappy. If you did, it clearly wasn't as obvious as you thought it was. If it was something I was doing or not doing, i should have been told that if i didn't address it, it was making you unhappy enough to consider leaving me. It's meant to be a wake up call, not a bunch of cryptic clues over several months that I'm meant to fathom out. And that I missed them does not justify you stepping out of our marriage to have an EA thinking I'm to blame for your actions."
> 
> She says nothing, but nods. I know she knows she's wrong. I guess some of these phrases come out of every cheating spouse at some point or another. It's hard to counter argue the absolute truth, which is whatever you think, you cheated....and in the end she didn't counter.
> 
> 
> 
> She asks what my plans are and I say, "you first, this is your doing".
> 
> She says _"I don't really have any plans. I'm prepared to move out and will likely get a 6 month lease in the area." She said "If it had anything to do with OM, I would move nearer to where he is"_ (which is approx 1000 miles away).
> 
> I read that as "If I move out tomorrow I think I need about 3 months after we meet in December to see if me and OM are going to work out before I move to his state".
> 
> 
> 
> I ask if OM has told his wife yet.
> 
> She says _"no"_. (As we suspected)
> 
> Personally, I would suspect if OM had told his wife, WW's plans would still be to get a 6 month lease but for it to be nearer OM...... Who can say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ask her what the plan is if OM doesn't tell his wife.
> 
> She says _"I'm not doing this because of OM, I've not been happy for a while, this would have happened anyway. If he doesn't tell her, we wont meet"_
> 
> I say that if she hasn't considered this already, that If OM hasn't told his wife by the time you meet up, you are likely going to make a very stupid decision and not hear from him much again afterwards. There will be delays and excuses but it wont pan out the way you think. She says she wouldn't do anything physical with OM unless he's told wife.
> 
> This of course isn't that convincing. We will likely have a completed divorce by then which makes her "single" and able to make any silly decisions she likes.
> 
> 
> 
> I ask her if she has really given any lucid thought to the reality of OM giving up his children. That you have no experience with children, you didn't want them yourself. Additionally that they will likely hate you.
> 
> She says she had but didn't expand at all. I probably should have asked more questions here but to what end.
> 
> 
> 
> I ask her if she has told her parents, she said she has.
> 
> With that answer, I know that R isn't an option. There would be no need to tell anyone if you felt that even a morsel of you might want R. She said that she was honest with her parents and that she had had an EA.
> 
> I could test this by talking to them myself, but while I was listening to her talking and looking at her across the room, it dawned on me........I wasn't as angry or upset as I thought Id be.
> 
> This realization partly lead to the following decisions regarding our circumstance. As it stands now at least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although she is prepared to move out and pay her half of our mortgage in addition to rental on a new apartment, she admits it would be a financial strain. So she's going to stay in a separate bedroom in our current home while we sell the house. The house will go on the market in about a month.
> 
> 
> Maybe It would be better If she fully left. But as i sit here typing this and watching TV, she is at the computer next to me. She could be typing to OM or doing work....I don't know and I'm finding that I don't care as much as I thought I would. I'm not sure if this is just relief....relief that I wont be on my own in a few days like I though I would. I guess I will have to find out because at the moment, we seem very relaxed with the situation. Maybe our relationship really did end up being like " A best friends scenario" and I didn't even recognize it.
> 
> 
> We are going to split everything as cleanly as possible. And we are researching the most cost effective Divorce. It might even be self file.
> 
> 
> For the time being, we will continue to run the business as we always have. It's a little too complicated to untangle over a few days. We really need a few months.
> 
> 
> While my parents are here, she will go to a local Extended stay hotel for two weeks.
> 
> 
> That's as far as we've got so far. There wasn't a spiteful word or between us. She teared up for a few seconds but that was really it.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that I don't feel betrayed and angry, I do. Eventually however, the house will sell and we will be divorced.
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main benefits here is time.
> 
> We will have the chance to slowly adjust the business as necessary, build some new friends (I've already started contacting various volunteer groups) and "hopefully" leave each other amicably and cost effectively.
> 
> 
> I thought about some of the forum threads I've followed over the last few days. How some people had been subject to their partners PA's, sometimes multiple and very intense and they still found the ability to forgive their WS and rebuild their lives together (for better or worse).
> 
> 
> So, while some might think I've gone completely insane and have let her get away with ruining our marriage (and I can understand that) some might read this outcome and see that considering our circumstances a divorce shouldn't be as complicated, time consuming or downright unpleasant as it could be if we let it.
> 
> We're not rebuilding our relationship to where it was. We're just getting out.
> 
> Naturally, this all might change tomorrow lol. I don't think we've covered the range of emotions that a couple in an 8 year marriage should have done.
> 
> But tomorrow, tomorrows my first time in therapy


Greg

This is utter "B0ll0cks" if you ask me 

let her crash, run a strong detachment and 180 on her 

3 months is a very long time in affair terms, as I said and many others here, I seriously doubt that the OM will dump his family and kids for her, I am a father myself and no matter what would have happened, I will never never give up on my kids and family, the first thing I would do is try to keep my family together, all OM wants is a shag nothing more, he will lie to her that he told his wife, will meet her in 3 months and will disappear the same way he came.

I had a acquaintance that had gone trough the same thing with his wife, she found another man, and up and left him out of the blue Walk away style, no reconciliation, straight to divorce and went living with the other man, he was shell shocked devastated but pick up very quickly and started dating within a short time, within a year he was engaged to be married to his new girlfriend, she on the other hand, her new sparkling relationship did not lasted and within the year it folded over, she started to get out of her fog shortly after he (her ex) announced his engagement to his girlfriend, boy that was not a pretty sight, her realization moment was devastating to her, she needed extreme counseling when the gravity of what she has done hit her,she met with her ex trying to get him back, well too late for her, he (her ex) wanted nothing to do with getting back to her, very sad. 


I think the same happening here, you STBX is too quick on dumping a good husband for a fantasy that may as well blow up in her face, her answers are typical self convincing that what she is doing is the right thing, disengage, go out meet new girls, a 40yo that is coming out of a LTR is an extremely hot commodity in the market, I bet you will not be single for long.

On the other hand your STBX going on close to 40, no kids of her own with many short term failed relationships she is by far not marriage material and will end up alone, I am willing to bet she will knock on your door as soon as she will realize the gravity of what she did.

Stay strong, you will be fine


----------



## jh52

I think everything she said is a lie.

People in affairs lie, lie, lie.

Don't believe anything she tells you..

Take care of yourself and stay strong.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Malaise said:


> However, I don't believe her when she says it has nothing to do with the OM and that it would have happened anyway. Pure bullsh!t.
> 
> I also don't believe she told her parents.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Sorry again


Greg : What are you going to do about this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Eli-Zor said:


> Greg : What are you going to do about this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I believe he said he was calling her parents to say goodbye, so I suspect the truth will come out then


----------



## happyman64

Greg

I know you feel in different. I think that is ok.

But now you know what a immature, selfish dumbass your wife really is.

And yes, you know she is BS'ing you.

I think it is a great idea staying under one roof for now.

Do a hard 180 except for business matters and D matters.

Definitely speak to her parents and siblings but try to do it in one day.

Also get in touch with the OMW so she has a heads up.

She shows a few tears for destroying not just your marriage but another persons family is telling.

She is one cold fish best thrown back in the sea.

HM64


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> I believe he said he was calling her parents to say goodbye, so I suspect the truth will come out then


I doubt it. I don't think he has even that much fight in him.

As a matter of fact I doubt he has even told her he won't be busuinees partners and he will be slinking back to England.

If he isn't strong enough to fight for his marriage,he needs to move on anyway. 

If it were me I would hire a PI today to find the OM's wife and kids and let her know she is going to be sharing mother duties soon. 

For me this all boils down to a lack of courage. Maybe this is routine behavior. I wonder if his wayward wife already knew he wouldn't fight for her?

What are all these unhappy signals she was giving him? I doubt the the whole convo also.


----------



## spudster

And another cheater gets away scot free with no measurable consequences for the infidelity. 

Business partners or not, she should pack up and find another place to stay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

spudster said:


> And another cheater gets away scot free with no measurable consequences for the infidelity.
> 
> Business partners or not, she should pack up and find another place to stay.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't understand it. He's worried about her costing him money. I'm the one that she and OM would be worried about. I would be going nuclear on the OM's a$$. Scorched earth etc. And that one poster...........If you can't run with the big dogs, stay under the porch.....and lick your wounds......before slinking away.

In this case the cheaters have nothing to fear. They will just have his cake and eat it too. Sad


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> If he isn't strong enough to fight for his marriage,he needs to move on anyway.


My understanding is that he entered the marriage with his own emotional affair on his long time partner--curious how that GF took the idea that he was moving to the U.S. with his virtual Internet lover. Now his wife is moving on yet again, in the very same way, with a long distance man who gets attached and buys the car before he's kicked the tires. 

If it were me, Greg40, I'd do what I could to stop this woman in her tracks. She's just going to go through life, replacing her men every few years with a new model, making sure she picks one who's already committed so she can wreck several lives at once. 

It seems that some people, like your wife, have just never been told "no." Why not be the first.


----------



## Greg40

Mike11 said:


> Greg
> 
> This is utter "B0ll0cks" if you ask me
> 
> let her crash, run a strong detachment and 180 on her
> 
> 3 months is a very long time in affair terms, as I said and many others here, I seriously doubt that the OM will dump his family and kids for her, I am a father myself and no matter what would have happened, I will never never give up on my kids and family, the first thing I would do is try to keep my family together, all OM wants is a shag nothing more, he will lie to her that he told his wife, will meet her in 3 months and will disappear the same way he came.
> 
> I had a acquaintance that had gone trough the same thing with his wife, she found another man, and up and left him out of the blue Walk away style, no reconciliation, straight to divorce and went living with the other man, he was shell shocked devastated but pick up very quickly and started dating within a short time, within a year he was engaged to be married to his new girlfriend, she on the other hand, her new sparkling relationship did not lasted and within the year it folded over, she started to get out of her fog shortly after he (her ex) announced his engagement to his girlfriend, boy that was not a pretty sight, her realization moment was devastating to her, she needed extreme counseling when the gravity of what she has done hit her,she met with her ex trying to get him back, well too late for her, he (her ex) wanted nothing to do with getting back to her, very sad.
> 
> 
> I think the same happening here, you STBX is too quick on dumping a good husband for a fantasy that may as well blow up in her face, her answers are typical self convincing that what she is doing is the right thing, disengage, go out meet new girls, a 40yo that is coming out of a LTR is an extremely hot commodity in the market, I bet you will not be single for long.
> 
> On the other hand your STBX going on close to 40, no kids of her own with many short term failed relationships she is by far not marriage material and will end up alone, I am willing to bet she will knock on your door as soon as she will realize the gravity of what she did.
> 
> Stay strong, you will be fine


Yeah, there probably is a lot of bollocks in there. I'm not naive, I'm incredibly cynical. I rarely act unless I know for sure. 

I really wasn't as upset meeting her again as i thought I might be and that in itself clearly had an effect. It was almost as if I thought to myself as I was looking at her "maybe I don't really want you anymore either"

I naturally expect to find out that what she's told me is a combination of lie and truth, it always is. Depending on what the lies are and how they really effect me (or not) I can still go any direction I like. One thing I haven't mentioned is that I own the copyright on 8 years of her designs. I can also leave for the UK and ruin her credit for the next 7 years. 

If I want to be spiteful about this, its no problem. Id like a few days to check though.


----------



## Greg40

jh52 said:


> I think everything she said is a lie.
> 
> People in affairs lie, lie, lie.
> 
> Don't believe anything she tells you..
> 
> Take care of yourself and stay strong.




Shall do - thx


----------



## Shaggy

Greg,

You're being awfully nice to her. You're listening nicely, and letting her call all the shots. When it would have inconvenienced her to move out and pay her part of the mortgage - you helped her out and were nice to her again.

You need to stop being nice. 

I know you're tired, but being nice is not only helping enable her affair, it's allowing her to feel good about what she's doing. 

Find the OMW and tell her. The message must have gotten intercepted. Keep at it until you've heard from your wife that she's angry that you expose the affair. That's when you know you've succeeded.


EVERYTHING your wife is currently saying is affair speak. All of it. It's her living in a happy fantasy world where everyone is initially upset at her and the OM living happily ever after - but they all come around and are happy for her. You're reaction is feeding this fantasy because you're unhappy, but after she talks to you - you are coming around and being nice and helping her.

It's your choice in the end - but you are really caving without a fight here other than a calm conversation with her. Others have faced much worse situations and pull it out of the fire - but they did so by taking on the affair and doing everything they could to show her consequences for her choices and by everything they could to make the affair hard to continue.

You should call her parents and tell them about the OM - you can bet she left that part out.

You should get on a plane and go visit the OMW and tell her in person.


----------



## Shaggy

Greg40 said:


> If I want to be spiteful about this, its no problem. Id like a few days to check though.


Greg, right now your still fighting for your marriage - things you do to fight for it aren't spiteful. 

Spiteful would be you being nasty after the D. Right now you are dealing with a cheating wife. Take those gloves off!


----------



## lisab0105

I don't think it is fair at all for anyone to say Greg is letting his horrid wife get off without a mark. Sounds like he is just trying to make sure HE gets out with as few dings as possible aside from the ones he has already had to endure the last few days. Which is understandable. He is only a week into finding out what has happened. Some people just need more time to process. 

I don't believe a "lack of courage" has anything to do with it. 

This man has to live his life and deal with the fallout, not any of us.


----------



## Greg40

happyman64 said:


> Greg
> 
> I know you feel in different. I think that is ok.
> 
> But now you know what a immature, selfish dumbass your wife really is.
> 
> And yes, you know she is BS'ing you.
> 
> I think it is a great idea staying under one roof for now.
> 
> Do a hard 180 except for business matters and D matters.
> 
> Definitely speak to her parents and siblings but try to do it in one day.
> 
> Also get in touch with the OMW so she has a heads up.
> 
> She shows a few tears for destroying not just your marriage but another persons family is telling.
> 
> She is one cold fish best thrown back in the sea.
> 
> HM64


At the moment, regardless of what % of her story is pure BS, what we agreed for now suited me.

I'm simply not feeling as upset about her being here as I thought I would be.

Of course this is all subject to change, I have a 180 get underway so I can completely move to Indifference and a keylogger to monitor ,to see if she's been mostly honest about what she did, if she's been 0% honst, if she;s laughing behind my back etc etc.

Once I've left the marriage with what I want. I can payback accordingly and I suspect payback from a place of indifference is a hell of a lot more calculated.

I hope for her sake that the truths outweigh the lies by a reasonable margin.


----------



## Malaise

Greg40 said:


> At the moment, regardless of what % of her story is pure BS, what we agreed for now suited me.
> 
> I'm simply not feeling as upset about her being here as I thought I would be.
> 
> Of course this is all subject to change, I have a 180 get underway so I can completely move to Indifference and a keylogger to monitor ,to see if she's been mostly honest about what she did, if she's been 0% honst, if she;s laughing behind my back etc etc.
> 
> *Once I've left the marriage with what I want. I can payback accordingly and I suspect payback from a place of indifference is a hell of a lot more calculated*.
> 
> I hope for her sake that the truths outweigh the lies by a reasonable margin.


This I like


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> I doubt it. I don't think he has even that much fight in him.
> 
> As a matter of fact I doubt he has even told her he won't be busuinees partners and he will be slinking back to England.
> 
> If he isn't strong enough to fight for his marriage,he needs to move on anyway.
> 
> If it were me I would hire a PI today to find the OM's wife and kids and let her know she is going to be sharing mother duties soon.
> 
> For me this all boils down to a lack of courage. Maybe this is routine behavior. I wonder if his wayward wife already knew he wouldn't fight for her?
> 
> What are all these unhappy signals she was giving him? I doubt the the whole convo also.



According to WW, her ending up with OM (or not), would still not change us divorcing. She wants one anyway.

Of course she was to chicken to do it herself and had an EA. If I hadn't found out, she'd be doing it secretly to this day, it would probably end up being a long term/long distance PA and id be none the wiser.

What exactly is there to fight for in here. Either way, we're going to get divorced.

I can go nuclear for sure but, has that ever helped anyone get out of a situation cleanly.

What should I care more about at this stage ? Playing a calculated game and getting what I want, while turning my life around or just pressing the red button and exploding [email protected] over everything including myself.


----------



## happyman64

Alright Greg.

I like your plan. Watch, listen and monitor.

Work out your D amicably.

You aalready know what you are dealing with when it comes to your WW.

So do it.

Let us know how you are making out and most of all take care of yourself.

And get what you deserve from her.

Keep us posted and Good Luck

HM64


----------



## Greg40

Eli-Zor said:


> Greg : What are you going to do about this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At the moment, nothing.

She wants a divorce either way, so its happening.

She'll get D, i'll be turning my life around and get whatever it is I need from our life and the business arranged as need be.

Once I'm where I need to be, I'll call the parents for a final goodbye. They'll have my truth then.


----------



## Mike11

Greg40 said:


> *According to WW, her ending up with OM (or not), would still not change us divorcing. She wants one anyway.*
> 
> Of course she was to chicken to do it herself and had an EA. If I hadn't found out, she'd be doing it secretly to this day, it would probably end up being a long term/long distance PA and id be none the wiser.
> 
> What exactly is there to fight for in here. Either way, we're going to get divorced.
> 
> I can go nuclear for sure but, has that ever helped anyone get out of a situation cleanly.
> 
> What should I care more about at this stage ? Playing a calculated game and getting what I want, while turning my life around or just pressing the red button and exploding [email protected] over everything including myself.


Greg

I think this is the essence of her Bollocking, it is nonsense, she says that to justify to herself the destruction of her own marriage and the OMs, this is classic affair talk, My wife told me the same after I overheard her consulting divorcing me with her best friend but when it comes to the actual stuff they chicken out, I wold say, at least at this point nuke the affair off, talk to her parents and work hard to get the OMW, these will bust the affair off, and than,I am willing to place a bet, that when the option of the OM is no longer there she will change her mind

it is up to you to take her back after that or let her dry, but this is the basic and also should not cause you harm in any way to may opinion (except from pissing her off a bit)


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> Yeah, there probably is a lot of bollocks in there. I'm not naive, I'm incredibly cynical. I rarely act unless I know for sure.
> 
> I really wasn't as upset meeting her again as i thought I might be and that in itself clearly had an effect. It was almost as if I thought to myself as I was looking at her "maybe I don't really want you anymore either"
> 
> I naturally expect to find out that what she's told me is a combination of lie and truth, it always is. Depending on what the lies are and how they really effect me (or not) I can still go any direction I like. One thing I haven't mentioned is that I own the copyright on 8 years of her designs. I can also leave for the UK and ruin her credit for the next 7 years.
> 
> If I want to be spiteful about this, its no problem. Id like a few days to check though.


I don't see how you could own the copyrights on your wifes designs. Anything you have gained while married should be community property, I'm just guessing.


----------



## Greg40

spudster said:


> And another cheater gets away scot free with no measurable consequences for the infidelity.
> 
> Business partners or not, she should pack up and find another place to stay.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




For the moment, no, I haven't blown her life up at all and certainly not to a point that we are unable to discuss our remaining problems amicably.

So far, what I have done is force the issue. Come back and R or its D.

She chose D

The way I'm looking at this right now, if we can't even manage to discuss things amicably (and who exactly is amicable when they've been nuked), we are going to cost ourselves many years of hardship and stress.

Over what exactly, she wants D either way, whats the point in making that D as hard to achieve as possible ?


----------



## Chaparral

She says she want a divorce because she is in a fantasy affair fog. Talking to you is like trying to make sense of an alien life form where there is no common ground to start from. LOL

Sounds like you really have almost nothing invested in this relationship and she knows it.


----------



## Greg40

Le


iheartlife said:


> My understanding is that he entered the marriage with his own emotional affair on his long time partner--curious how that GF took the idea that he was moving to the U.S. with his virtual Internet lover. Now his wife is moving on yet again, in the very same way, with a long distance man who gets attached and buys the car before he's kicked the tires.
> 
> If it were me, Greg40, I'd do what I could to stop this woman in her tracks. She's just going to go through life, replacing her men every few years with a new model, making sure she picks one who's already committed so she can wreck several lives at once.
> 
> It seems that some people, like your wife, have just never been told "no." Why not be the first.



To answer your first Q. My LTR at the time didn't take it well at all. We obviously sold everything and split up. She didn't go nuclear (not that she could really) and that was that. It was very undramatic for me...months of hell for her.

My current wife probably will do this again, not that she thinks she will because she's obviously found the perfect person this time. Or was that last time ? So many perfect people around around who turn out to be not so perfect....weird how that happens.

Anyway, its not that she tries to pick difficult targets, I seriously think that she's one of those people that subscribes to "the heart wants what the heart wants and damn all who get in the way"

Selfish - yes, Immature - yes.


----------



## TDSC60

Greg40 said:


> For the moment, no, I haven't blown her life up at all and certainly not to a point that we are unable to discuss our remaining problems amicably.
> 
> So far, what I have done is force the issue. Come back and R or its D.
> 
> She chose D
> 
> The way I'm looking at this right now, if we can't even manage to discuss things amicably (and who exactly is amicable when they've been nuked), we are going to cost ourselves many years of hardship and stress.
> 
> Over what exactly, she wants D either way, whats the point in making that D as hard to achieve as possible ?


Exposure is mostly a tool to stop an affair. If D has been decide, then exposure makes no sense for you at the moment.

Get what you can and get out with dignity.


----------



## the guy

Greg I think your a smart man, hurting but smart. I think you went into this with a plan and now work the plan. move forward with the D.

I think your confrontation went well, you brough out some points she may not of considered, one that comes to mind is "OM's kids will hate you". Even the OM and his relationship with his wife. These two point...hopefully have planted some seed in her mind and it gets her to start thinking how wrong the OM is for her.

The point I'm making is once the OM gets out of her life a corner maybe turned. It may not but experience tells me that once that OM influence is out of the picture she may start to rethink here disicion. I guess I'm just hoping for the best.

Have you emailed OMW that you confronted WW and will be divorcing, and that OM and your WW will be increasing the relationship now that the D is eminent? A warning of sorts!


----------



## Greg40

TDSC60 said:


> Exposure is mostly a tool to stop an affair. If D has been decide, then exposure makes no sense for you at the moment.
> 
> Get what you can and get out with dignity.



Thank you


I don't know why some posters aren't getting this.


Why do I want to nuke someone and fully piss them off when they want a D either way.

I dont give a 5hit that shes fogged up in Lala land or that one day she's going to wake up and realize what an awful mistake she's made and want to R.....its all inconsequential.

I'm a big boy and can either chose to go nutty on her, pissing her off royally in the process and spend the next god knows how many years with my reward .....a giant fvkiing lawyers bill and a [email protected] load of stress.

Or I can play it cool and calculated, get her on my side all nice and comfy.....and screw the pooch from the inside.

Acting like a maniac WHEN SHE WANTS A D ANYWAY isn't going to make one single thing work out.


----------



## happyman64

informing the omw is not you acting like a maniac.

it is you exposing the A and letting the OMW in on her WH's extracurricular activity.

It will not prevent you from having a amicable D.

In fact it will not stop your D at all.

But the choice is yours.


----------



## aug

Greg40 is doing fine. He's not as upset with his wife anymore and is moving onwards to divorce.


----------



## Chaparral

aug said:


> Greg40 is doing fine. He's not as upset with his wife anymore and is moving onwards to divorce.


And it only took what, four days? Excellent


----------



## lisab0105

chapparal said:


> And it only took what, four days? Excellent


Greg isn't on anyone's timetable but his own...lets try and remember that shall we. After all, unless the good people of TAM want to start donating towards his attorney fee's, I say support his decisions and let it go.


----------



## Falene

Greg,

I am glad to you hear you are doing well and the Ambien helped.

There are some of us here that want to seek some type of healing through the actions of others. This is your ship and you float it the way you want to. I hope the peaceful waters you have found continue to flow.

I would like you to consider though contacting the OMW to make sure she is aware. Not out of a sense of revenge but out of kindness. She has every right to know what her husband is up to. Your wife could be one of several women he is seeing. He could be bringing STDs home. Aside from you and your wife...she has a right to know.

I am concerned that you are putting yourself in a position to suffer even more than you already have by remaining in the house. Please be careful. You are a bit of an emotional mess (VERY understandable) and I worry living this close to her while still getting through the initial shock of it all will take a heavy toll on you.

Be good to yourself. Start developing new social habits. (I think checking into being a volunteer is a great idea). Try to eat well and exercise. Most importantly, love yourself. You have it coming.


----------



## cabin fever

my only guess for the people who want to expose is one of these options. 


1. They have never had to deal with a divorce, so have no clue how it really works. (99% of the time its not easy, or quick) 

2. They went through a chitty divorce, and think everyone else should too. 

If it were me......I'd be as nice as you can possibly be, and once the divorce is official, and the ink is dry, I'd nuke her ass. 

If you wanna call it beta go ahead. I call it playing it cool.


----------



## Chaparral

cabin fever said:


> my only guess for the people who want to expose is one of these options.
> 
> 
> 1. They have never had to deal with a divorce, so have no clue how it really works. (99% of the time its not easy, or quick)
> 
> 2. They went through a chitty divorce, and think everyone else should too.
> 
> If it were me......I'd be as nice as you can possibly be, and once the divorce is official, and the ink is dry, I'd nuke her ass.
> 
> If you wanna call it beta go ahead. I call it playing it cool.


Greg no longer wants his wife, thats cool. But he and his wife got them into this mess. Exposure is to try and save the OM's family and stopping two more kids from joining the divorced kids statistics all because of some online fantasy. It really not rocket science. 

I would divorce her too and never look back. Its the self serving nature of his wife her fantasy friend and yes Greg that makes me ill.

Vaya con Dios


----------



## Mike11

Greg40 said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> I don't know why some posters aren't getting this.
> 
> 
> Why do I want to nuke someone and fully piss them off when they want a D either way.
> 
> I dont give a 5hit that shes fogged up in Lala land or that one day she's going to wake up and realize what an awful mistake she's made and want to R.....its all inconsequential.
> 
> I'm a big boy and can either chose to go nutty on her, pissing her off royally in the process and spend the next god knows how many years with my reward .....a giant fvkiing lawyers bill and a [email protected] load of stress.
> 
> Or I can play it cool and calculated, get her on my side all nice and comfy.....and screw the pooch from the inside.
> 
> Acting like a maniac WHEN SHE WANTS A D ANYWAY isn't going to make one single thing work out.



Greg

Your call mate, you do have a point, let go of her you cannot make her stay if she does not want to, I am with you on that one (I did the same with my wife by the way, eventually I told her she can leave if she wanted to, but she chose to stay so we are working on it)

Best of luck mate


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Greg40 said:


> For the moment, no, I haven't blown her life up at all and certainly not to a point that we are unable to discuss our remaining problems amicably.
> 
> So far, what I have done is force the issue. Come back and R or its D.
> 
> She chose D
> 
> The way I'm looking at this right now, if we can't even manage to discuss things amicably (and who exactly is amicable when they've been nuked), we are going to cost ourselves many years of hardship and stress.
> 
> Over what exactly, she wants D either way, whats the point in making that D as hard to achieve as possible ?


I like this. Not many people have taken this approach, so I'm curious to see how well it will work. Be sure to let us know.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

You should put a video camera where she is most likely to skype with the OM. You'll be able to watch their interactions and at least you'll be able to see that nighty she bought.


----------



## Mike11

WorkingOnMe said:


> Ya he's pretty non confrontational. His beta traits are probably why she strayed in the first place.


I like to call it Calculating not non confrontational 

I think that one must realize that you cannot make someone who explicitly told you they don't want to be with you any more, stay with you, 

She does not love him nor respect him so he'd better let her go 

she will get her ride eventually (the Karma Bus is coming to town)


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I would have bought that if he would have put even a little effort into saving his marriage. But at the first sign he just rolled over. It's not about exposure. It's about giving up without so much as a whimper. On the other hand I could be wrong. It could be that he just wasn't that into her and he was ready to go.


----------



## donders

Greg40 said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> I don't know why some posters aren't getting this.
> 
> 
> Why do I want to nuke someone and fully piss them off when they want a D either way.


Because they're got their own unresolved issues from their own failed relationships, they are rallying for you to "go get her!" and "don't let her get away scott free" because in a way, your soon to be ex spouse is like the partner that betrayed THEM. It's projection, nothing more.

Take the high road, get out cleanly and do NOT make waves which as you fully know will only make your divorce uglier and more expensive.

You are NO coward Greg, you are handling this extremely well.


----------



## iheartlife

donders said:


> Because they're got their own unresolved issues from their own failed marriages.


Projection, much? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

WorkingOnMe said:


> I would have bought that if he would have put even a little effort into saving his marriage. But at the first sign he just rolled over. It's not about exposure. It's about giving up without so much as a whimper. On the other hand I could be wrong. It could be that he just wasn't that into her and he was ready to go.


Wait a second, isn't the idea to do a 180 and at least pretend you don't care. It's obvious Greg is being calculated, more-so than I could ever be in his situation. His wife is being non-nonchalant about her EA, stating she would get divorced anyway, even if the OM was not in the picture. That is a lot to take in and I am surprised he hasn't gone nuclear. He has just come to the realization that going nuclear could only make things worse and more expensive. Don't judge him because he's being calculated and trying to come out of this situation with as much $$$ and dignity as possible. I Hope I'll be able to think this clearly if I ever find myself in a similar situation.


----------



## donders

cabin fever said:


> my only guess for the people who want to expose is one of these options.
> 
> 
> 1. They have never had to deal with a divorce, so have no clue how it really works. (99% of the time its not easy, or quick)
> 
> 2. They went through a chitty divorce, and think everyone else should too.
> 
> If it were me......I'd be as nice as you can possibly be, and once the divorce is official, and the ink is dry, I'd nuke her ass.
> 
> If you wanna call it beta go ahead. I call it playing it cool.


Well said, on points 1 and 2.

Point 3? Nuke her after the divorce out of spite or whatever?

I guess if you just can't let it go and you feel the immature need to "get even" then go for it, what the heck.

But realize all you're doing is holding onto the anger. The goal is to get to the point where you truly are indifferent and you don't care about her and there's no need to hurt her for her transgressions. She's not happy either, believe me.


----------



## spudster

I retract what I said. I reread this post and I think in this instance Greg is doing it right. 

But Greg you need to make sure she knows she is not getting the better of you, that she is making a foolish mistake and that in the near future, when the shiny gloss of her new relationship wears down, she is going to be the loser in this scenario. 

Make sure you communicate this to her clearly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

donders said:


> Because they're got their own unresolved issues from their own failed relationships, they are rallying for you to "go get her!" and "don't let her get away scott free" because in a way, your soon to be ex spouse is like the partner that betrayed THEM. It's projection, nothing more.
> 
> Take the high road, get out cleanly and do NOT make waves which as you fully know will only make your divorce uglier and more expensive.
> 
> You are NO coward Greg, you are handling this extremely well.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## donders

chapparal said:


> I don't see how you could own the copyrights on your wifes designs. Anything you have gained while married should be community property, I'm just guessing.


Not if she agrees to it!

That's the whole point of settling this while she's bending over backwards to be amicable out of guilt. This won't happen if he takes the advice on this thread about "nuking her" or whatever.

Maybe NOW you can see the reason behind keeping things civil rather than leaving it to the courts because both sides are so angry with each other that they can't work it out.


----------



## lisab0105

WorkingOnMe said:


> I would have bought that if he would have put even a little effort into saving his marriage. But at the first sign he just rolled over. It's not about exposure. It's about giving up without so much as a whimper. On the other hand I could be wrong. It could be that he just wasn't that into her and he was ready to go.


Why would he put effort into saving this marriage when she couldn't even put forth effort into feeling remorse for what she has done??? 

Their marriage is over/done/finito! He knew that the second he got that email from her. 

No one wants to hold onto someone that doesn't want to be held.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Guys I told Greg far back in the thread that the relationship is over. He needs to do for him now. Like others have said this is not a relationship that's going to be saved with some talk about a love bank.


----------



## Shamwow

donders said:


> Well said, on points 1 and 2.
> 
> *Point 3? Nuke her after the divorce out of spite or whatever?*
> 
> I guess if you just can't let it go and you feel the immature need to "get even" then go for it, what the heck.


*Point 3*: If it turns out it's PA everyone involved needs to get STD checked. Not getting even or immaturity, it's a health issue then, which I would argue warrants a morals check.

That said, there is no proof of PA, and presuming Greg doesn't wish to keep digging what he does is totally his call. He has to do what he will feel best about for his life going forward. 

I for one completely respect Greg's decision to do this however he sees fit. I just don't think his informing of OMW would be a "nuke" (he's already done it and no mushroom clouds have appeared as of yet). It will piss people off briefly, but then the chips are really on the table for all involved to enjoy the privilege of making informed decisions for their own lives.

A nuke would be FB messaging everyone on everyone's friends list with gory details, sexting quotes and pics.

(donders, really curious to hear your story to know where you're coming from. Please PM me if you wish.)


----------



## donders

Shamwow said:


> (donders, really curious to hear your story to know where you're coming from. Please PM me if you wish.)


Married for almost 20 years, we basically got sick of each other and called it quits a few years ago.

Currently in the rebuilding phase of my life, been involved with some great women, with someone now about a year.

As a result of my experience I am anti-marriage and I am very experienced in ugly divorces, which is why I am very opposed to the rampant advice I see all over these boards that steers a person in the direction of conflict and litigation.

I post on boards like this to help me process and understand things better and maybe help others from my own experiences but mostly I do it to heal myself. 

This thread is somewhat unique in that the person who started this thread KNOWS better than to escalate conflict and yet is being pressured into doing what I know would be a huge mistake.

Although I agree that AFTER the paperwork is signed he can then maybe "do the morally correct thing" and let the other betrayed spouse know about the affair, or do it now, anonymously and risk that the wayward wife will realize it was Greg and then go back on her word to give him what he wants in the divorce.

If it was me I wouldn't do anything to upset the applecart, I'd be watching out for myself, which is what most people do anyway.


----------



## Tony55

As everyone may recall, Greg read dialog between them that caused him to do a visceral 180 insofar as how he felt about her; his only real emotional issue now is coping with being alone.

Greg, the process of coming to terms with living alone is remarkably short (in my experience). The pain of the breakup takes quite awhile to get over, but living in a home by yourself isn't as bad as you may think. You get to have your own space and you are able to express yourself through your environment, ie: when you make friends and have them over for movie night etc. (in my case I created the superb bachelor home equipped with home theater, nice bar and even towels that I picked out, lol).

Alone can be quite refreshing.


----------



## lordmayhem

donders said:


> Married for almost 20 years, we basically got sick of each other and called it quits a few years ago.
> 
> Currently in the rebuilding phase of my life, been involved with some great women, with someone now about a year.
> 
> As a result of my experience I am anti-marriage and I am very experienced in ugly divorces, which is why I am very opposed to the rampant advice I see all over these boards that steers a person in the direction of conflict and litigation.


You clearly admit that you have *NO EXPERIENCE in divorces in which infidelity involved.* It figures. This is the Coping with Infidelity forum. 



donders said:


> I post on boards like this to help me process and understand things better and maybe help others from my own experiences but mostly I do it to heal myself.


The you would be better on in the Divorce forum, this is the CWI forum so you are telling others erroneous information without having any experience in the matter.


----------



## donders

lordmayhem said:


> You clearly admit that you have *NO EXPERIENCE in divorces in which infidelity involved.* It figures. This is the Coping with Infidelity forum.


It appears most people on this forum have experience with infidelity and none with divorce, and are giving advice that will make a reasonable clean divorce turn into a nightmare.




lordmayhem said:


> The you would be better on in the Divorce forum, this is the CWI forum so you are telling others erroneous information without having any experience in the matter.


Every poster that advocates a betrayed spouse to "go nuclear" especially when the marriage is over and divorce is almost certain would be better off not posting at all on the CWI forum because they are telling others erroneous information that is reckless and just plain irresponsible.

Divorce lawyers would love the advice given on this board because it drives the highly conflicted parties into their offices ready to spend whatever it takes to "get even".


----------



## member2012

Greg40 said:


> At the moment, regardless of what % of her story is pure BS, what we agreed for now suited me.
> 
> I'm simply not feeling as upset about her being here as I thought I would be.
> 
> Of course this is all subject to change, I have a 180 get underway so I can completely move to Indifference and a keylogger to monitor ,to see if she's been mostly honest about what she did, if she's been 0% honst, if she;s laughing behind my back etc etc.
> 
> Once I've left the marriage with what I want. I can payback accordingly and I suspect payback from a place of indifference is a hell of a lot more calculated.
> 
> 
> I hope for her sake that the truths outweigh the lies by a reasonable margin.



I think part of the reason you are not as upset as you thought you would be is because she is there, meaning that now that she is physically with you, you feel more comfortable. I know that when my husband was in the middle of trying to end his EA, I always felt better when he was physically with me.


----------



## member2012

Greg40 said:


> Le
> 
> 
> To answer your first Q. My LTR at the time didn't take it well at all. We obviously sold everything and split up. She didn't go nuclear (not that she could really) and that was that. It was very undramatic for me...months of hell for her.
> 
> My current wife probably will do this again, not that she thinks she will because she's obviously found the perfect person this time. Or was that last time ? So many perfect people around around who turn out to be not so perfect....weird how that happens.
> 
> Anyway, its not that she tries to pick difficult targets, I seriously think that she's one of those people that subscribes to "the heart wants what the heart wants and damn all who get in the way"
> 
> Selfish - yes, Immature - yes.


Greg, Do you think if your GF had gone nuclear on you when you first met your wife, she could have stopped you from leaving?


----------



## iheartlife

donders said:


> It appears most people on this forum have experience with infidelity and none with divorce


Keep reading.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

I think the only purpose going nuclear serves is if you're trying to save the marriage due to an affair. If you have come to terms with the fact that things are over I don't see what purpose it serves. As for the OM's wife Greg did try sending her a message. This one is over guys and most likely belongs being moved over to the divorce section.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> I think the only purpose going nuclear serves is if you're trying to save the marriage due to an affair. If you have come to terms with the fact that things are over I don't see what purpose it serves. As for the OM's wife Greg did try sending her a message. This one is over guys and most likely belongs being moved over to the divorce section.


Not so fast grasshopper. The plot is still unfolding. Both Greg and his wife are still quite foggy (in different ways.)


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Not so fast grasshopper. The plot is still unfolding. Both Greg and his wife are still quite foggy (in different ways.)


You make a good point since they're still going to be in the same house together for the time being.


----------



## Shamwow

donders said:


> It appears *most people on this forum *have experience with infidelity and none with divorce, and are giving advice that will make a reasonable clean divorce turn into a nightmare.


Sigh. Sorry your divorce was a nightmare. Counter: mine wasn't (it wasn't "fun", but it was reasonable and amicable). And I exposed when filing. So I got an easy divorce AND kept my self-respect. This has happened for many others here. I appreciate your desire to help Greg have an easy divorce. Not sure why you'd assume everyone here is lacking experience. The process of navigating infidelity and divorce go hand in hand, much of the time.




> *Every poster *that advocates a betrayed spouse to "go nuclear" especially when the marriage is over and divorce is almost certain would be better off not posting at all on the CWI forum because they are telling others erroneous information that is reckless and just plain irresponsible.


C'mon. C'monnnn...

Also, can't remember the last person to say he should go nuclear.



> Divorce lawyers would love the advice given on this board because it drives the highly conflicted parties into their offices ready to spend whatever it takes to "get even".



This can certainly be the case. Counter: mine cost 4 grand total, and that's with hiring a high-priced shark. Turns out there was really nothing to argue about, so it was quick, relatively cheap (less than 10 hours of the lawyer's time over a few months), and over with.


----------



## Greg40

If there's one thing that's constant here, its that people are naturally going to have different opinions on how to deal with (what I suspect is on the surface) a reasonably standard EA. In fact, I wager that its not even that standard for people of my age due to no kids.

So I apologize for not caring about Alpha/Beta types or that something must be done because its morally right (even though I don't know the people involved) or whatever.

When It comes to making decisions that could have a detrimental effect on my future, I'm not the guy that jumps out of the plane and hopes to find a chute on the way down, I leave with one.


So anyway, therapy was, I dunno a bit odd. I've never done it before and I'm not entirely sure how he's going to fit in here because ultimately they don't offer advice.

He seems to think I have a need for therapy, but I bet therapists say that to everyone lol

After telling him the situation (he had only received his notes an hour beforehand) he goes on to say that each week I can either turn up with an agenda, or not because If i don't have one, he'll start something up.

I ask him about changes, insofar that because this is all still so fresh, what if my direction regarding WS changes.

He's like "yeah no problem, we just switch it up, do a 180 turn and go the other direction"

So basically it seems I can enter into conversation with someone who will probably (as part of the course) provide me with some coping tools ,but ultimately will chop and change as I see fit. 

I'll think on it for a few days. Part of me thinks that the same time might be more usefully expended in the gym.


----------



## Greg40

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Not so fast grasshopper. The plot is still unfolding. Both Greg and his wife are still quite foggy (in different ways.)


Correct sir.

She is already not liking the new distant me that's making plans.

She mentioned R in the therapists waiting room (we have one car, she needed to be in the area).

I said "not a good time" and went into the appointment.

It fresh, there's fog. 

But I'm moving forward with D. I can see she's in conflict.


----------



## cabin fever

donders said:


> Well said, on points 1 and 2.
> 
> Point 3? Nuke her after the divorce out of spite or whatever?
> 
> I guess if you just can't let it go and you feel the immature need to "get even" then go for it, what the heck.
> 
> But realize all you're doing is holding onto the anger. The goal is to get to the point where you truly are indifferent and you don't care about her and there's no need to hurt her for her transgressions. She's not happy either, believe me.


Yea, nuke was probably a harsh term I guess. My point was I would try not to pizz her off in hopes of getting the divorce over quickly, easily, and as cheap as possible. 

After that, I would care less about pizzing her off, so when someone asks, why did you get divorced, i would smile, and say cause she had an affair, and not worry about her getting pizzed when she finds out everyone knows.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Greg my friend just keep moving forward with your plan. If you start recognizing this woman some where along the way who knows. As for therapy I would suggest for you to keep at it. It's someone to talk to and just get things off your chest. You might find you go in with a topic in mind and some weeks have nothing to talk about at all. You will be amazed that the weeks you go in with nothing at all can turn into the best sessions.


----------



## donders

Shamwow said:


> Also, can't remember the last person to say he should go nuclear.


You can thank me later.



chapparal said:


> I would be going nuclear on the OM's a$$. Scorched earth etc. And that one poster...........If you can't run with the big dogs, stay under the porch.....and lick your wounds......before slinking away.


Nothing short of "Go nuclear or be a coward and slink away".

Nice..


----------



## Jen5524

Greg,

I think you are handling this flawless so far. It's one of the worst things you are going to go through and it's going to change you. I think your wife had these issues before you got together with her and unfortunately your a casualty. But you have to look after you now and part of that is maintaining your integrity and character; you seem to be doing that. In the heat of it all, it's nice to reflect on revenge, but it seems that you are not really that guy and why let this make you that way. Stay true to yourself, stick with counseling, the gym, and get out of this as painlessly as possible for you both. Some time when you are ready, you will find someone that will appreciate the man you are. I respect how your handling this and stay strong!


----------



## Greg40

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> Greg my friend just keep moving forward with your plan. If you start recognizing this woman some where along the way who knows. As for therapy I would suggest for you to keep at it. It's someone to talk to and just get things off your chest. You might find you go in with a topic in mind and some weeks have nothing to talk about at all. You will be amazed that the weeks you go in with nothing at all can turn into the best sessions.


Agreed, best course of action I think. Much harder to get hurt if you're making progress.

I haven't binned the therapist idea. I do need someone to physically talk to in the area. 

I'm not sure what vibe draws people to their therapist but, although this one seemed ok....I'm not quite sold. Maybe i'll take another session with someone different.

Has anyone here had their therapist ask them to make a decorated binder for their sessions ?


----------



## Patrick1959

The problem with going nuclear is that other innocent people can be greatly harmed. 

Perhaps those with the most to lose are the OM's wife and children. 

First of all I find it likely that OM getting involved and having EA with women on the internet may be a habit; I suspect that Greg's wife may not be the first and who knows how many he has gone physical with. 

Now consider his family: there is a wife and children who are invested in a relationship with a man who may be eligible for a pension for military service, and if married for more that 10 years she should have a claim of to up to 50% of that pension. However, his behavior could place that pension in jeopardy. Sometimes military service members are separated for adultery, and lose credit for service that can be applied to a pension. With clear evidence of sexual intercourse a General Courts Martial with risk of a dishonorable discharge. Some manage to get separated for commission of a serious offense without a Courts Martial. 

With consideration for the OM's family, it would be appropriate to do whatever can be done to expose her husband's behavior so she has an opportunity to try and protect her investment in the marriage. She could then try to alter her husband's behavior by going to her husband's Command Chaplain and trying to work out a plan to reign in her husband's behavior without a harsh punishment. Should he chose not to cooperate than there is little that can be done to protect her husband from damaging his career, but it can at least give her a chance to make alternative plans. 

Well I suspect that Greg's WW and the OM probably have not considered some of these consequences; but it may give Greg some leverage when dealing with his wife and her OM.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

A binder? 

"I call this one... infidelity! Get out the glitter and macaroni.."


----------



## Greg40

Jen5524 said:


> Greg,
> 
> I think you are handling this flawless so far. It's one of the worst things you are going to go through and it's going to change you. I think your wife had these issues before you got together with her and unfortunately your a casualty. But you have to look after you now and part of that is maintaining your integrity and character; you seem to be doing that. In the heat of it all, it's nice to reflect on revenge, but it seems that you are not really that guy and why let this make you that way. Stay true to yourself, stick with counseling, the gym, and get out of this as painlessly as possible for you both. Some time when you are ready, you will find someone that will appreciate the man you are. I respect how your handling this and stay strong!


Thanks for the the kind words Jen. 

TBH I'm not really sure how its going lol....

It's my first time round this merry-go-round, but at least I haven't fallen off the horse yet and I'm not ready to get off.


----------



## Greg40

Unsure in Seattle said:


> A binder?
> 
> "I call this one... infidelity! Get out the glitter and macaroni.."


Exactly right LOL

Just to fvck with him I was going to go with a collage featuring Twighlights Edward Cullen, dismembered torso's and ponies.


----------



## betamale

She believes - or used to believe that you can't live without her, so while she might feel a little sorry for you, she thinks that she's the hottest woman in the planet, if you show her that you're totally OK with the situation she'll feel weird about her female "powers". Her big ego will be crushed. She wants out of the marriage, but expects you to fight for her, this is your golden opportunity to play games with her cheating mind.


----------



## Shamwow

donders said:


> You can thank me later.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing short of "Go nuclear or be a coward and slink away".
> 
> Nice..


Ha. How did I know I should've actually taken the time to find the last time someone said it.

So, to be clear: because of an incendiary post, the rest of us are advocating revenge because we "can not resolve our feelings", are "immature", and "would be better off not posting at all on the CWI forum because they are telling others erroneous information that is reckless and just plain irresponsible."

I think Gandhi said it best when he said: "Whatever".

Sorry for the thread-derailment, I'm done trying to make my 
point.

Good luck Greg, you're doing well.


----------



## donders

Shamwow said:


> So, to be clear: because of an incendiary post, the rest of us are advocating revenge because we "can not resolve our feelings", are "immature", and "would be better off not posting at all on the CWI forum because they are telling others erroneous information that is reckless and just plain irresponsible."


"Immature" was probably a bad choice, my apologies.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Greg40 said:


> Exactly right LOL
> 
> Just to fvck with him I was going to go with a collage featuring Twighlights Edward Cullen, dismembered torso's and ponies.


Time to get a new therapist.


----------



## Chaparral

donders said:


> Married for almost 20 years, we basically got sick of each other and called it quits a few years ago.
> 
> Currently in the rebuilding phase of my life, been involved with some great women, with someone now about a year.
> 
> As a result of my experience I am anti-marriage and I am very experienced in ugly divorces, which is why I am very opposed to the rampant advice I see all over these boards that steers a person in the direction of conflict and litigation.
> 
> I post on boards like this to help me process and understand things better and maybe help others from my own experiences but mostly I do it to heal myself.
> 
> This thread is somewhat unique in that the person who started this thread KNOWS better than to escalate conflict and yet is being pressured into doing what I know would be a huge mistake.
> 
> Although I agree that AFTER the paperwork is signed he can then maybe "do the morally correct thing" and let the other betrayed spouse know about the affair, or do it now, anonymously and risk that the wayward wife will realize it was Greg and then go back on her word to give him what he wants in the divorce.
> 
> If it was me I wouldn't do anything to upset the applecart, I'd be watching out for myself, which is what most people do anyway.


Thanks for the info. So you are projecting. I have to disagree with you on people watching out for themselves when children are involved. Its rare in my experience and I 've been around, and been around a long time.


----------



## donders

chapparal said:


> Thanks for the info. So you are projecting. I have to disagree with you on people watching out for themselves when children are involved.


Well that's more of a "moral choice" than a disagreement.

You're a better man than me, no doubt.

If it was me, without hesitation I'd go the route of avoiding a high conflict divorce even if it meant not telling the other man's wife to protect her from an STD and somehow indirectly possibly benefiting her children.


----------



## sandc

Greg, This is where you start the 180. This is where she starts to understand what she will be losing. You will see a different woman in a matter of days. I think you are already starting to see that. If so, be prepared. She was so ready for you to beg and plead for her to stay. You didn't. She sees that you can live without her and suddenly... she's not so sure about D.

Hmmmm..... pity.


----------



## Chaparral

donders said:


> You can thank me later.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing short of "Go nuclear or be a coward and slink away".
> 
> Nice..


You are projuecting again. I simply said thats one of the things I would do. Something I didn't mention is that I would be flying to OM's city for a little get together. There would be no question in his wife s mind what her husband was up to.

Also, if he is in/invloved with the military here, ifidelity is illegal. They would know too. If the wayward wife got pissed about that, thats her problem.

He would also have his cheating heart listed on cheaterville.com so that anyone that googled his name would get an immediate character refernce.

CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know

The gaping hole here is not our experience with divorce but your inexperience with breaking up fantasy affairs and reconciling marriages. And that looks like it may already be causing damage.

Just guessing your junk yard doggedness had a lot to do with your unsatisfactory divorce. Would you like to give your wifes take on that?


----------



## lordmayhem

iheartlife said:


> Keep reading.


:iagree:

This isn't my first rodeo. And I'm on my second marriage.


----------



## donders

chapparal said:


> Just guessing your junk yard doggedness had a lot to do with your unsatisfactory divorce. Would you like to give your wifes take on that?


I can't speak for my exwife.

She was unpredictable then, she's even worse now.

It's a fair guess that she wouldn't speak positively about me and that she'd claim the failure of our marriage was completely my fault.

Hope that helps.


----------



## iheartlife

donders said:


> I can't speak for my exwife.
> 
> She was unpredictable then, she's even worse now.
> 
> It's a fair guess that she wouldn't speak positively about me and that she'd claim the failure of our marriage was completely my fault.
> 
> Hope that helps.


She had unmet needs that were poorly understood?


----------



## MattMatt

donders said:


> Well that's more of a "moral choice" than a disagreement.
> 
> You're a better man than me, no doubt.
> 
> If it was me, without hesitation I'd go the route of avoiding a high conflict divorce even if it meant not telling the other man's wife to protect her from an STD and somehow indirectly possibly benefiting her children.


Donders, old chap, that's a bit too damn cold for me, to be perfectly honest.


----------



## KanDo

Greg40 said:


> Agreed, best course of action I think. Much harder to get hurt if you're making progress.
> 
> I haven't binned the therapist idea. I do need someone to physically talk to in the area.
> 
> I'm not sure what vibe draws people to their therapist but, although this one seemed ok....I'm not quite sold. Maybe i'll take another session with someone different.
> 
> Has anyone here had their therapist ask them to make a decorated binder for their sessions ?


Greg,

If you are going to therapy with your story of infidelity and betrayal and your therapist doesn't have a plan.... RUN! Your initial therapy should be aimed at educating you about infidelity and teaching you tools to use to alleviate anxiety and deal with your wife and the divorce. See somebody with experience in infidelity. If your therapist doesn't know who Shirley Glass they are in over their head.

To quote the always pragmatic Mark Twain
"... _*to a man with a hammer, a lot of thing look like nails that need pounding*_..."

I wont get into the disclosure fray. You can read how I handled it.


----------



## happyman64

Greg40 said:


> Exactly right LOL
> 
> Just to fvck with him I was going to go with a collage featuring Twighlights Edward Cullen, dismembered torso's and ponies.


Never lose your sense of humor Greg. You are doing fine so far.


----------



## Chaparral

KanDo said:


> Greg,
> 
> If you are going to therapy with your story of infidelity and betrayal and your therapist doesn't have a plan.... RUN! Your initial therapy should be aimed at educating you about infidelity and teaching you tools to use to alleviate anxiety and deal with your wife and the divorce. See somebody with experience in infidelity. If your therapist doesn't know who Shirley Glass they are in over their head.
> 
> To quote the always pragmatic Mark Twain
> "... _*to a man with a hammer, a lot of thing look like nails that need pounding*_..."
> 
> I wont get into the disclosure fray. You can read how I handled it.


Your therapist should also be experienced in PTSD. Find out his qualifications before the first visit.


----------



## Greg40

sandc said:


> Greg, This is where you start the 180. This is where she starts to understand what she will be losing. You will see a different woman in a matter of days. I think you are already starting to see that. If so, be prepared. She was so ready for you to beg and plead for her to stay. You didn't. She sees that you can live without her and suddenly... she's not so sure about D.
> 
> Hmmmm..... pity.


Indeed. 

Once WW is forced to play their cards, they can't exactly play them again.

However, I can play my cards in all sorts of different ways and I can somewhat shuffle hers around too.

I have all the cards. 

You didn't see that coming did you WW


----------



## Greg40

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Time to get a new therapist.


ok, ok, no ponies or torso's....jeez.


----------



## SomedayDig

I can't believe you actually thought of sparkly vampires....goodness gracious...


----------



## Chris Taylor

Greg40 said:


> Correct sir.
> 
> She mentioned R in the therapists waiting room (we have one car, she needed to be in the area).


And so it starts.

The fog is slowly lifting and she sees that (a) OM isn't going to be there for her and (b) she really will lose you.

In the past you have shown some weakness in dealing with this but then got on the right track. The question now is whether or not you will be strong enough to continue with the divorce.

I am always a fan of trying to keep a marriage together but I think she has an innate compulsion to stray and if you reconcile now, you will be back here again with another unfortunate problem.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Yes, looks like the fog is beginning to lift.
(God, I love that bridge.)


----------



## iheartlife

I think that some people could eventually grow up and realize that starting a new relationship as a way to move past the old one, is best left to the kids in junior high. But her mask is going to have to get ripped off in therapy and her ugliest self exposed for this to happen. Most people can't find it in themselves to change that much. It is too painful and unpleasant.


----------



## Mike11

Some WW get it quick some are slow to get out of the fog and some will be to proud to admit fault and will go down destroying their life but not to admit that they made a mistake

I think she is starting to realize what she is about to lose over a stupid Fantasy that may not happen, I see more drama coming your way Greg


----------



## WalkingInLight

Greg40 said:


> ...So far, what I have done is force the issue. Come back and R or its D.
> 
> She chose D...


I hesitate to step into a thread that has so many advocates for non-reconciliation. However, as someone who was on here well over a year ago and found help in reconciling with my WW from a select few, I wanted to at least say something in the hopes you might have a different perspective as you try to sort through your hurt.

One of the best pieces of advice I received, was not to make any quick decisions, but to sit and abide with my pain for awhile.

You mentioned early on that you would be open to R but that since reading the emails between the OM and your W, have decided that you are done.

You then said you gave her a choice (see above), D or R and that she chose D.

Friend, your W is so deep in the fog she can’t see her own feet. Why on earth would you listen to anything she tells you as being true in her current state of mind? That’s almost like asking a clever chimp to fly a crashing plane.

I do not wish to hurt you – It appears as though you have abandoned any attempt to lead this relationship. Your wife is pulling your emotional strings and you allow her to. 

If she tells you that she wants a D and you are remotely interested in R – then there is still a chance to rescue this.

When my W was in the fog she believed everything she said and thought. She would have sworn the sky was yellow at the time.

Before you pull the trigger on this wounded horse – if you are open to R at all, I would like to offer you a ray of hope – to let you know that it is not outside of your reach – no matter what your wife says. You might still be able to get the horse walking again. At the very least - you'd have given it your best effort before simply throwing in the towel and declearing your innings at an end.

If you’d like to hear more I’d be happy to respond and let you know what worked for me and my W. In any case, I wish you the best in your recovery.


----------



## Greg40

So after WW mentioning R yesterday (and believe me it was a brief mention that at the time we didn't take further) we went back to our day.

In the evening, I decided to bring it up again. I wasn't convinced that this was a good idea but, I wanted to check on the fog levels and to be honest I'm not at all thrilled with some of the arrangements we made regarding current living arrangements, they're weird and don't feel right.

Naturally it is much better that she not be living here under any circumstances while this is happening.

She said that she thought I had totally removed R from the table.

I said I had but I think we are both doing ourselves a disservice to not explore it if we think there is a chance.

So we had a long conversation in the early hours and I felt best that it was our most candid, no holds barred conversation yet.

I wont go into all the details for now, it would make for a long post. But the fog is still there.

In any event, the conversation concluded with us deciding to sleep on the possibility of R for a night.


In the morning, she's says that she has talked to OM and that she is going to go NC for 4 days, he says that she thinks she should. If she can last 4 days, she will go full NC, hand over all her passwords, agree to a key logger.

She will then go to IC (to sort out other issues) then after progress there, we will begin MC.

4 days obviously seems completely insufficient but she says it's her test of herself. In the thick of fog 4 days might seem like a lifetime to her, they speak about this and that for around 3 hours a day. I'm obviously not convinced that she can stick to it and may try to find another way to contact OM. The keylogger I installed hasn't worked, or she found it and removed it. I think i'll test WW in a couple of days by asking her to show me her current mobile phone usage records, she can't hide those if she's been weak.

She has already deleted her primary way to contact OM (2nd FB profile) so she likely only has the phone left for messages while she's in her bedroom.


I say to her, we'll try this but, if after 4 days you have not fulfilled your promise to NC over the last 4 days and everything is not in place to monitor this for the future, you are leaving the house. You'll rent an apartment and be on your own with your online OM.

I also told her that I will be telling the OMW in a way that cannot be intercepted or prevented (will be a PI but I didn't say that)

I said that I'm only telling you this because if you decide not to R and we want to end this amicably as we've discussed, then by contacting OMW directly with proof, I am actually doing you a favor. 

You two will either end up together, or you wont but, you'll find out in 4 days whether your decision to start and continue an online EA with another woman's husband was worth it or not.

I did this because going nuclear at this stage is irrelevant, she can warn OM, ask OM to come clean, concoct a story to explain their large history of cantact, it doesn't matter but, I played the card to ensure that we can still have an amicable divorce.

Anyway, that's where we are today.


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> In the thick of fog 4 days might seem like a lifetime to her, they speak about this and that for around 3 hours a day. I'm obviously not convinced that she can stick to it and may try to find another way to contact OM.


I'm picturing you doing your best not to burst out laughing when you heard her "plan." If you can sit back and watch this unfold with detached amusement, more power to you. Oh and to her. 

It would be kind of cute if she was 15. Like the cellphone ad where the girl calls to give her BF the silent treatment.


----------



## husbandfool

OMG. I'd be done at this point. 
Why go through all this??


----------



## Complexity

You can't bargain like this. Either she's in it or not.


----------



## lordmayhem

Greg40 said:


> I also told her that I will be telling the OMW in a way that cannot be intercepted or prevented (will be a PI but I didn't say that)


:slap:

You used this as a threat. The first rule of exposure is to *never, ever, tell your WS or the OP that you will expose*. OM will spin it to his BW that and angry, jealous, psycho will try to contact her and NOT to accept any communications from you. 

But from your post, you already knew that, so why even bother saying it? But if you're comfortable having her string you along and keeping you as Plan B, more power to you.


----------



## iheartlife

lordmayhem said:


> :slap:
> 
> You used this as a threat. The first rule of exposure is to *never, ever, tell your WS or the OP that you will expose*. OM will spin it to his BW that and angry, jealous, psycho will try to contact her and NOT to accept any communications from you.
> 
> But from your post, you already knew that, so why even bother saying it? But if you're comfortable having her string you along and keeping you as Plan B, more power to you.


"OM, love? This is Greg40's WS, sweetie! Real quick. He's going to tell your W! Yeah, I know, what a pr*ck! So here's the deal. Tell her my H is bi-polar and off his meds. He's been especially abusive of late and is calling all my friends and trashing me, just because I forgot to take in the dry cleaning a couple of times. His therapist thinks I should have him committed, but wants to try a different dosage first. So if he calls her, tell her that she should let you know right away. And how embarrassing and humiliating this all is for me."


----------



## sunshinetoday

ojc!!!! I think you handled it very well so far, but please just tell the OMW she has a right to know, and dont let your WW know. D or no D, R or no R, do not let the OMW be played any longer.


----------



## Greg40

iheartlife said:


> I'm picturing you doing your best not to burst out laughing when you heard her "plan." If you can sit back and watch this unfold with detached amusement, more power to you. Oh and to her.
> 
> It would be kind of cute if she was 15. Like the cellphone ad where the girl calls to give her BF the silent treatment.


In relationship maturity, when it comes to this stuff, I think she might be 15.

I can guarantee this is her first tough warts and all relationship. prior to that, if she was unhappy, she could get away with moving on easily.

During our discussion I obviously got the ILBNILWY - therefore I'm not expecting much from this 4 days, so I'm going to give it to her.

If she manages NC, concludes that she can't manage R, she'll have the time to think about OM and the new place she'll have to find and move to so they can carry this on.


----------



## Greg40

husbandfool said:


> OMG. I'd be done at this point.
> Why go through all this??



IIRC It's been 7 days since I found proof, 6 days since I confronted her while at her relatives wedding in another state and she has only been back from the trip 24 hours.

It would be easy to knee-jerk this but there is a fair bit on the line. 

It's not reasonable (IMO) to trade 8 years because I can't give a foolish and foggy WW 4 days to wise up.


----------



## Greg40

Complexity said:


> You can't bargain like this. Either she's in it or not.


You're probably right. 

She has 4 days for in or out. Things will change dramatically either way past that.


----------



## Greg40

tdwal said:


> Why not she us backpedalling. Especially since OM is in agreement, he don't want her obviously.



I only found that out this morning. I suspected it of course.

I rang him again, just to see if he was even aware of this NC and to leave her the hell alone during it.

Twat wouldn't pick the phone up again.


----------



## Greg40

lordmayhem said:


> :slap:
> 
> You used this as a threat. The first rule of exposure is to *never, ever, tell your WS or the OP that you will expose*. OM will spin it to his BW that and angry, jealous, psycho will try to contact her and NOT to accept any communications from you.
> 
> But from your post, you already knew that, so why even bother saying it? But if you're comfortable having her string you along and keeping you as Plan B, more power to you.



It won't be an angry jealous psycho though. 

It will be an indifferent and calm paid PI with a bunch of phone records and conversation screen-shots.


----------



## Greg40

sunshinetoday said:


> ojc!!!! I think you handled it very well so far, but please just tell the OMW she has a right to know, and dont let your WW know. D or no D, R or no R, do not let the OMW be played any longer.


Agreed.


----------



## Mario Kempes

Greg40 said:


> It won't be an angry jealous psycho though.
> 
> It will be an indifferent and calm paid PI with a bunch of phone records and conversation screen-shots.


Jeez, Greg, you da man!!!!!

You're playing a blinder! 

I don't know why, but, a little part of me is feeling kinda sorry in advance for your WW when she snaps out of the fog. It's gonna be so ugly for her!


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> I only found that out this morning. I suspected it of course.
> 
> I rang him again, just to see if he was even aware of this NC and to leave her the hell alone during it.
> 
> Twat wouldn't pick the phone up again.


Leave him a message and tell him to answer the phone so you don't have to contact his wife.


----------



## Chaparral

I think you are doing great too. We give advice here all the time about how to break up an affair so people can reconcile and get thier marriage back on track. What is different about this case, especially since so far it is nothing but a fantasy? Good luck Greg, I think you have a good shot at saving your marriage. 

Be sure to read MMSL relationship guide for men ASAP, ( that means NOW)

Good luck


----------



## betamale

Let her fight for you. Every time you mention R you move a step back, I think. Have you read the 180? There're a couple of points that you need to follow in order to gain her respect back.


----------



## happyman64

Greg

I think the 4 days will be interesting.

She might hang herself, she might or.

I like your cool, calm attitude.

Let's see how this plays out.

HM64


----------



## Harken Banks

Nothing to add but kudos. Like watching Tai Chi. Or slow-motion drowning. Tai Chi, I think.


----------



## Wazza

betamale said:


> Let her fight for you. Every time you mention R you move a step back, I think. Have you read the 180? There're a couple of points that you need to follow in order to gain her respect back.


Huh? Seems to me he's pretty much calling the shots.


----------



## betamale

Yeah, he's doing fine, but his W seems very manipulative. I'd cave in, I was actually thininking about myself. I'm beta.


----------



## SomedayDig

From what it looks like...since we actually ARE watching this unfold from the interwebs...Greg is in control of the situation. This silly Alpha bullsh-t is just that. A bunch of sally's who think projecting a "masculine" image is what they need to succeed in life.

Grow up and just live. Alpha or f'ng Gamma...who cares. Are you in control of your life? Then fine. Greg seems to be doing what HE wants. Isn't that Alpha enough?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

lordmayhem said:


> :slap:
> 
> You used this as a threat. The first rule of exposure is to *never, ever, tell your WS or the OP that you will expose*. OM will spin it to his BW that and angry, jealous, psycho will try to contact her and NOT to accept any communications from you.
> 
> But from your post, you already knew that, so why even bother saying it? But if you're comfortable having her string you along and keeping you as Plan B, more power to you.


The first rule of Fight Club *Exposure *is: You do not talk about Fight Club *Exposure*.


----------



## Wazza

betamale said:


> Yeah, he's doing fine, but his W seems very manipulative. I'd cave in, I was actually thininking about myself. I'm beta.


Woman in affair = manipulative liar. Of course she is.

Mind you the OM is manipulating her too.


----------



## SomedayDig

I like the ghosted words there Count.

By the way...Regret had a Monte Cristo for lunch today. We couldn't NOT think of you.

Is that sad?!!! LOL


----------



## Greg40

betamale said:


> Let her fight for you. Every time you mention R you move a step back, I think. Have you read the 180? There're a couple of points that you need to follow in order to gain her respect back.


I've only mentioned R once. Last night. 

I hadn't mentioned it while she was away at the wedding. Merely the option of stop or D.

When she got back I didn't mention it.

She mentioned it very briefly yesterday which we didn't move forward on at the time. I waited for another 12 hours till early AM and mentioned it to test fog, open a dialogue and give her the opportunity for action. That's the first and only time I have ever mentioned it.

She said that she hadn't thought it was on the table at all. We go to our separate bedroom, she obviously talks to OM, he is supportive of R, now I assume she has doubts about OM.

This morning, we have the start of this mini NC.

R will only ever be discussed again over the next 4 days if she initiates. 

She has said that this isn't entirely about OM and that she might still feel that we cannot R, even if NC maintained, OM's BS knows and she moves out

I'm likening this tactic to some well know salesman training I once read about called "funneling". 

You basically remove objections to not buy and the person inevitably gets funneled down to two options, 5h1t or get off the pot.


----------



## Malaise

greg40 said:


> i've only mentioned r once. Last night.
> 
> I hadn't mentioned it while she was away at the wedding. Merely the option of stop or d.
> 
> When she got back i didn't mention it.
> 
> She mentioned it very briefly yesterday which we didn't move forward on at the time. I waited for another 12 hours till early am and mentioned it to test fog, open a dialogue and give her the opportunity for action. That's the first and only time i have ever mentioned it.
> 
> She said that she hadn't thought it was on the table at all. We go to our separate bedroom, she obviously talks to om, he is supportive of r, now i assume she has doubts about om.
> 
> This morning, we have the start of this mini nc.
> 
> R will only ever be discussed again over the next 4 days if she initiates.
> 
> *she has said that this isn't entirely about om *and that she might still feel that we cannot r, even if nc maintained, om's bs knows and she moves out
> 
> i'm likening this tactic to some well know salesman training i once read about called "funneling".
> 
> You basically remove objections to not buy and the person inevitably gets funneled down to two options, 5h1t or get off the pot.


*bull*


----------



## Greg40

Malaise said:


> *bull*


More than likely but that's what she said.

She'll have to live with the consequences if she's lying to herself.


----------



## SydneyGirl

Hi Greg,

Can I just say, from someone who was on the other side of a similar mess (though I wasn't cheating, I had 'approval' from my husband to enter a relationship with a person from work) that the fog does lift. 

And now that it has, I am so in love with my husband again. I am really glad we worked through everything, got rid of the third person and are back to being the happy couple we used to be.

Honestly, things have never been better between us. It was almost worth it to have had all the drama the third person brought to our lives.

As I say, my situation is slightly different because my husband was ok with me having the 'affair'. I never lied, I never snuck around and I never hid anything from him. We had some issues when it got too hard for him and he asked me to stop. I was in the 'fog' and it was incredibly hard, but now i'm on the other side of it i'm glad the other person is out of our lives (well, he's not actually out, we're friends and we still have contact and my husband is ok with that).

I don't know what to tell you Greg.. If you CAN get past the hurt from the lies, sneaking etc then maybe this will pass for your wife and you can get back to being happily married?

Good luck!


----------



## SomedayDig

SydneyGirl...would be interested in hearing your story. Are you willing to start your own thread.

My curiosity and reasoning is, a long, long time ago I "dated" a girl. I found out her husband gave her 30 days to do what you did. When I found out, I walked. I couldn't do that to another guy, as my ex-wife back then had cheated on me. I couldn't bear to do it even with "permission".


----------



## SydneyGirl

It's a very long story which I don't really have time to write out but it was basically this:

So you know the story - married 7 years, 2 kids, H very busy at work etc.. Things had gotten a bit boring at home, same old, same old blah blah.

I bumped into a guy from work at a couple of functions.

He started to pursue me. Which was flattering and nice. He knew I was married. Starting texting me etc. I never hid any of this from my H, he is just a very non jealous guy and thought it was all amusing.

Work guy wanted to go for drinks, lunches etc and I said yes, thinking I was in control of the whole situation. H had no problem with it. Told me that I could get friendlier with the guy if I wanted i.e. kiss him because he could see that I was loving the attention and he didn't feel threatened by it.

So work guy and I started catching up more and more. Started getting intimate. I told my H and he was fine with it.

Then my H told me we could have sex if we wanted and he would be fine with it. So we did. A few times over a few months.

I was falling in love with work guy. Thinking I might have to leave H etc. Not knowing what to do because I didn't want to split my family up but I was thinking I needed to be with work guy, he was the one etc.

Work guy started to be a bit of a jerk. H was unimpressed with the way he was treating me. H was also starting to finally feel threatened. So H asked me not to see him anymore.

That was the hard part. Cutting off contact when I was in love with work guy. But he was continuing to be a jerk so he actually made it easier.

I was still thinking I couldn't be with H because I felt i'd fallen out of love with him. So still contemplating having to split my family up, but not to be with work guy.

Anyway, I gave it some more time. So did H. We worked through a whole bunch of stuff. And now we're better than ever.

And after reading these boards over the last few days, I feel like such a stupid, stupid cliche.


And that's the nuts and bolts of the story. There are obviously hundreds of more details (my affair went for just over 12 months) but that's the gist of it right there.


----------



## Greg40

happyman64 said:


> Greg
> 
> I think the 4 days will be interesting.
> 
> She might hang herself, she might or.
> 
> I like your cool, calm attitude.
> 
> Let's see how this plays out.
> 
> HM64



Even though she's only been back 2 days, it feels like 10 lol.

So the next 4 days is likely to feel like a goddamn endless roller-coaster. I hope she still cooks though 

I somewhat expect her to fail NC or freak out. 

If she makes the 4 days and passes some tests.... 

ie: open up the following accounts deary (there's a messenger account that she doesn't know I know about) then I can test and see if she really wants to R, wants to give up our M for OM or test whether "OM isn't the only problem" that she claims he isn't.


----------



## SomedayDig

Greg40 said:


> Even though she's only been back 2 days, it feels like 10 lol.
> 
> So the next 4 days is likely to feel like a goddamn endless roller-coaster. *I hope she still cooks though*
> 
> I somewhat expect her to fail NC or freak out.
> 
> If she makes the 4 days and passes some tests....
> 
> ie: open up the following accounts deary (there's a messenger account that she doesn't know I know about) then I can test and see if she really wants to R, wants to give up our M for OM or test whether "OM isn't the only problem" that she claims he isn't.


When in doubt...take out!! LOL

sorry, man - just a bit of levity.


----------



## Greg40

betamale said:


> Yeah, he's doing fine, but his W seems very manipulative. I'd cave in, I was actually thininking about myself. I'm beta.


Well, she's a woman in a fog - and typically they aren't very honest about their emotions.

I think they convince themselves they are and if I was 15 it might seem convincing lol.

I haven't Aplha'd this situation, its not a situation you can forcibly alpha I feel.

In any event, I've come to understand myself as a "Balpha" lol


----------



## Greg40

SydneyGirl said:


> Hi Greg,
> 
> Can I just say, from someone who was on the other side of a similar mess (though I wasn't cheating, I had 'approval' from my husband to enter a relationship with a person from work) that the fog does lift.
> 
> And now that it has, I am so in love with my husband again. I am really glad we worked through everything, got rid of the third person and are back to being the happy couple we used to be.
> 
> Honestly, things have never been better between us. It was almost worth it to have had all the drama the third person brought to our lives.
> 
> As I say, my situation is slightly different because my husband was ok with me having the 'affair'. I never lied, I never snuck around and I never hid anything from him. We had some issues when it got too hard for him and he asked me to stop. I was in the 'fog' and it was incredibly hard, but now i'm on the other side of it i'm glad the other person is out of our lives (well, he's not actually out, we're friends and we still have contact and my husband is ok with that).
> 
> I don't know what to tell you Greg.. If you CAN get past the hurt from the lies, sneaking etc then maybe this will pass for your wife and you can get back to being happily married?
> 
> Good luck!



Yes, I'm convinced it does lift but it really only has maximum chance if the circumstances are right.

If they're as good a circumstances as a person can make them and it still doesn't lift.....well "good luck to you sweetie"

My conclusion from our first 2 days here and the arrangements we made initially, is that they would be far from ideal circumstances for any of us.


----------



## Greg40

SomedayDig said:


> When in doubt...take out!! LOL
> 
> sorry, man - just a bit of levity.


hey, I'm all for levity good sir :smthumbup:


----------



## Wazza

Greg, since you are watching what she does, be careful what you post here, in case she finds this thread and gets your game plan.

Personally I reckon you are being in control and decisive, which is alpha in the best sense of the word.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Actually I'm starting to think you're more alpha than I gave you credit for.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> Leave him a message and tell him to answer the phone so you don't have to contact his wife.



Fair enough, this makes sense.

He doesn't have to know I'm going to contact his wife anyway, he just needs to confirm that the NC exists and that if it does, that he's on-board with the terms


----------



## Greg40

Wazza said:


> Greg, since you are watching what she does, be careful what you post here, in case she finds this thread and gets your game plan.
> 
> Personally I reckon you are being in control and decisive, which is alpha in the best sense of the word.




I'm deleting history each time I leave the PC 

I've never really subscribed to alpha/beta as an full personality. For me it can ebb and flow, you can ratchet it up and down where needed.


----------



## Sbrown

Why is it, everyone on here thinks their circumstances are somehow different, but the basics always seem the same???


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> Fair enough, this makes sense.
> 
> He doesn't have to know I'm going to contact his wife anyway, he just needs to confirm that the NC exists and that if it does, that he's on-board with the terms


My guess is, he intercepted your first message to his wife. I don't think he ever gave a thought to leaving his family and that's why he is telling your wife to reconcile (assuming that's true). He is probably freaking out that his wife is going to find out how sleazy he can be.

If he was as deep as your wife he would have figured out how to consumate the relationship before Dec. He probably was just going to knock off a piece then because he was going to be travelling anyway. And that may have been a lie too. Doesn't sound like he was in a hurry in any event.


----------



## iheartlife

Sbrown said:


> Why is it, everyone on here thinks their circumstances are somehow different, but the basics always seem the same???


It's a theme.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Sbrown said:


> Why is it, everyone on here thinks their circumstances are somehow different, but the basics always seem the same???


Probably because when you can be detached and observe situations as an uninvolved observer, you can see everything with clarity. However, when your are in the midst of the situation, your frame of reference becomes a whole lot smaller. Obviously, the emotional impact impairs rational thought to a varying degrees depending on the individual. 

Another thought is the old question of why does a physician have to go to another doctor for treatment? In reality the concept of "Physician, heal thyself" isn't very effective. Also, the majority of people posting on here are not "professionals" in that they are regularly cheated on. In most cases, people are ill equipped when they find themselves as the betrayed spouse.


----------



## Sbrown

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Probably because when you can be detached and observe situations as an uninvolved observer, you can see everything with clarity. However, when your are in the midst of the situation, your frame of reference becomes a whole lot smaller. Obviously, the emotional impact impairs rational thought to a varying degrees depending on the individual.
> 
> Another thought is the old question of why does a physician have to go to another doctor for treatment? In reality the concept of "Physician, heal thyself" isn't very effective. Also, the majority of people posting on here are not "professionals" in that they are regularly cheated on. In most cases, people are ill equipped when they find themselves as the betrayed spouse.


LOL it was a rhetorical. 

My analogy is that it is easier to see the dent in the fender from outside the car than from the drivers seat. (or in most of these threads on here the OP is in the back seat with their head in the floor board.)


----------



## iheartlife

Sbrown said:


> OP is in the back seat with their head in the floor board.)


Or perhaps in a locked trunk with the WS at the wheel.


----------



## Greg40

I checked a few things today. Her tablet for one which I haven't had a chance to do before.

In there was an email to OM. It was sent yesterday morning at the beginning of the NC period explaining what was going to happen. 4 days of NC.

It's clear from the email that my plan to tell his wife was passed on. I didn't know if this was a mistake at the time. I didn't see any difference if he concocted a story or not...I could provide proof to expose those lies to OMW.

In his reply to WW, he was scared. It basically said "I will stick to the NC and not contact you, I am deleting this email account and will not check for a reply before I do, good luck and I hope that you can repair your marriage" .....basically along those lines. So, he bailed.

There were only a few option left and it looked like he wouldn't be disturbing them at least for now. Maybe a chance of initial fog clearing. 

We would continue NC for two more days and either look to extand NC and start to R. 

We would D

Or she would move out by her own decision because OM was (according to her) not the only problem and that she had fallen out of love anyway. With OM bailed (at least for now, it seemed very unlikely).


I got back from walking the dogs and she seemed very unhappy. The NC I suspected wasn't going well.

I obviously knew why it most likely wasn't going well but kept quiet and asked her what was up.


She said that she knew I had looked on her computers today and she didn't know if she could live like that for the future. That she only had asked me for 4 days to prove to herself that she could NC and I was already snooping.. 

I explained that trust has to be earned, I can't be expected to learn of an EA 7 days ago, fall from full trust to 0 and then have to switch it back on again at such a delicate time.

We talked and talked about a lot of things, the way I deal with things, the way she deals with things.....but basically

She feels that it is almost impossible to return her feelings to how they were before she felt our problems started. That over the last year, I was too emotionless. That she couldn't live with me snooping on her for what could be forever. That she would rather live on her own than live what could amount to be a miserable life with me. She feels best she just move out. 


Looks like no R for us. I tried to reverse this during the conversation, I didn't think that would happen. 

I've got that pit-in-my-stomach feeling now.

I pray the Ambien works tonight.



Thanks in advance for any pearls of wisdom and help.


----------



## humanbecoming

Hey Greg... Friday nights are usually slow on here, and I'm not a regular CWI poster, but I didn't want to see you go a while with no response given how you must be feeling right now. like most folks on TAM, I read here frequently. This forum is what brought me to TAM when I thought my wife might be in an affair. Anyway, from reading hundreds of posts here, it sounds like she is still in the fog. Basically, anything someone says about their relationship right after exposure of the A, you have to ignore. They are not in their right mind. Pulling back emotionally, starting to engage in hobbies/interests of your own, and trying to project an upbeat attitude seem to be the best bet for you right now. It's not going to be 4 days, but she will start thinking rationally again eventually. 

-wishing you strength and healing-


----------



## Wazza

Greg40 said:


> I checked a few things today. Her tablet for one which I haven't had a chance to do before.
> 
> In there was an email to OM. It was sent yesterday morning at the beginning of the NC period explaining what was going to happen. 4 days of NC.
> 
> It's clear from the email that my plan to tell his wife was passed on. I didn't know if this was a mistake at the time. I didn't see any difference if he concocted a story or not...I could provide proof to expose those lies to OMW.
> 
> In his reply to WW, he was scared. It basically said "I will stick to the NC and not contact you, I am deleting this email account and will not check for a reply before I do, good luck and I hope that you can repair your marriage" .....basically along those lines. So, he bailed.
> 
> There were only a few option left and it looked like he wouldn't be disturbing them at least for now. Maybe a chance of initial fog clearing.
> 
> We would continue NC for two more days and either look to extand NC and start to R.
> 
> We would D
> 
> Or she would move out by her own decision because OM was (according to her) not the only problem and that she had fallen out of love anyway. With OM bailed (at least for now, it seemed very unlikely).
> 
> 
> I got back from walking the dogs and she seemed very unhappy. The NC I suspected wasn't going well.
> 
> I obviously knew why it most likely wasn't going well but kept quiet and asked her what was up.
> 
> 
> She said that she knew I had looked on her computers today and she didn't know if she could live like that for the future. That she only had asked me for 4 days to prove to herself that she could NC and I was already snooping..
> 
> I explained that trust has to be earned, I can't be expected to learn of an EA 7 days ago, fall from full trust to 0 and then have to switch it back on again at such a delicate time.
> 
> We talked and talked about a lot of things, the way I deal with things, the way she deals with things.....but basically
> 
> She feels that it is almost impossible to return her feelings to how they were before she felt our problems started. That over the last year, I was too emotionless. That she couldn't live with me snooping on her for what could be forever. That she would rather live on her own than live what could amount to be a miserable life with me. She feels best she just move out.
> 
> 
> Looks like no R for us. I tried to reverse this during the conversation, I didn't think that would happen.
> 
> I've got that pit-in-my-stomach feeling now.
> 
> I pray the Ambien works tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any pearls of wisdom and help.


You have a long road ahead if you reconcile....four days is nothing.

I would hold the line on verifying trust. She broke it, she was dishonest, you won't heal unless you sort that.

And I would keep talking.


----------



## Malaise

Sorry Greg

It seems that she doesn't want to do what she must in order to regain your trust. She wants you to trust but not verify and she can't understand why you can't do that.

It seems to still be all about her and your feelings are not considered.

Sorry about the way things worked out.


----------



## Greg40

humanbecoming said:


> Hey Greg... Friday nights are usually slow on here, and I'm not a regular CWI poster, but I didn't want to see you go a while with no response given how you must be feeling right now. like most folks on TAM, I read here frequently. This forum is what brought me to TAM when I thought my wife might be in an affair. Anyway, from reading hundreds of posts here, it sounds like she is still in the fog. Basically, anything someone says about their relationship right after exposure of the A, you have to ignore. They are not in their right mind. Pulling back emotionally, starting to engage in hobbies/interests of your own, and trying to project an upbeat attitude seem to be the best bet for you right now. It's not going to be 4 days, but she will start thinking rationally again eventually.
> 
> -wishing you strength and healing-



I appreciate the response. It's pretty sad here right now lol

She's in the other bedroom trying to sleep...I suspect she might be a little upset but she is in a different place emotionally. 

Her OM has likely bailed (and I'm sure that's my fault) She still has the EA brain drugs and managed to leave while not emotionally attached to me.

I really don't think she'll change her mind even if it takes 4 months and although its one day at a time and who knows what will happen, i think she's somewhat excited about the new future on her own.


I'm trying to be positive, it's not that easy at 2am for some reason. I don't know how I could have done anything any different and somehow, I still get kinda fvcked.


----------



## Greg40

Wazza said:


> You have a long road ahead if you reconcile....four days is nothing.
> 
> I would hold the line on verifying trust. She broke it, she was dishonest, you won't heal unless you sort that.
> 
> And I would keep talking.


She doesn't want R at all now.


----------



## Greg40

Malaise said:


> Sorry Greg
> 
> It seems that she doesn't want to do what she must in order to regain your trust. She wants you to trust but not verify and she can't understand why you can't do that.
> 
> It seems to still be all about her and your feelings are not considered.
> 
> Sorry about the way things worked out.


It certainly seems so Malaise.

I don't know how I could not be expected to check after knowing for 7 days. Does anyone expect instant trust ?

She even said she understood that and would likely be the same.

It didn't make any difference, her head is 100% elsewhere.


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> It certainly seems so Malaise.
> 
> I don't know how I could not be expected to check after knowing for 7 days. Does anyone expect instant trust ?
> 
> She even said she understood that and would likely be the same.
> 
> It didn't make any difference, her head is 100% elsewhere.


Well, some WS expect to be 100% trusted immediately. It's a silly thing to expect. It does take a very long time to re-earn trust.

There should be complete transparency in marriage. That means that both of you give the other all of the passwords to all of your computers and online accounts. you should be able to check each other's computers, cells, etc any time you want.

The point is that your wife has proven that she cannot be trusted. The only way you will learn to trust her over time is if you can check what she's doing online. Remember that the internet gives unprecedented ability to communicate with others and cheat. Thus it's perfectly reasonable that you would want to check up on her often for a long period of time. Even after a long time you might have what amount to panic attacks about this and really the only way to get through them is to go online and check what she's up to.

When I found out about my husband’s affairs on line I checked daily for at least a year. Then over time it got to be less and less. After the 2 year timeframe I was just sick and tired of checking so I stopped. But did spot check about once a year… And every time I checked he was back to cheating online. It finally got to the point that I did not care anymore if he cheated. It did not hurt anymore. As I told him I know that this is just him…. He’s a cheater who uses the internet for that purpose and I just don’t want to be involved with him anymore and I don’t want to feel like I have to check up on him. I’m not his mommy. I’ve divorced him. But there is no doubt in my mind because I was able to check all I wanted. 

He did password protect his computer. But I’m a bit too computer savvy for a password to stop me when I want to see what’s going on.


----------



## TRy

Greg40 said:


> I don't know how I could not be expected to check after knowing for 7 days. Does anyone expect instant trust ?
> 
> She even said she understood that and would likely be the same.
> 
> It didn't make any difference, her head is 100% elsewhere.


 Do not beat yourself up. You played it right. There was nothing else that you could do. You went with your best odds, but still lost because there was no winning play. She is mad at you because to took away her affair drug. If you did not take the affair drug away, you were going to lose her for sure anyway, so you had nothing to lose trying it. Unfortunately, she was too far gone before you ended it. 

Sorry for your pain. Perhaps if you move on, she will get out of the fog and feel remorse before the divorce is final, but it is best if you proceed as if it is over. Again, you played it right. Be well and good luck. Know that there is someone else out there that would love to grow old with you. someone that would never cheat on you. She is out there. Time to go find her.


----------



## happyman64

And do not be afraid to tell her that it might be best if she leave and the two of you D. It is not what you want but cannot control her or her decisions.

Tell her that you have not changed. You are not emotionless. It was her that changed the status of your relationship by cheating. She is blinded by her feelings for someone else to even see let alone feel your emotions......

It was her that got involved with another man emotionally.

And remind her that she has been this way for months, while you have only had your world rocked by her actions for just over a week.

And point out to her that if she is going o remain so selfish and self centered then you would rather not be with her as well.

Her emotions are going to be on a roller oater as well as yours.

You can also tell her that it is hard for you to believe that a woman as smart as she is could act so damn stupid.

She really needs to open her eyes.

Just be aware that some people never do, while others do but it is already too late.


----------



## Sbrown

Do yourself a favor, help her pack. Go get boxes and get it started. The "I can't live like this. You must trust me." Is usually cheater speak for "How can I continue this (or any other) affair if you are checking on me?"


----------



## Hicks

Women change their minds and feelings frequently.
Don't take somethign she decides or says while she is in a hurt state and give it life, permanence.
Her mind and feelings could be completely different today.


----------



## Sbrown

Hicks said:


> Women change their minds and feelings frequently.
> Don't take somethign she decides or says while she is in a hurt state and give it life, permanence.
> Her mind and feelings could be completely different today.


Exactly! Don't let her childishness decide your life for you. Make a decision and do not let her whims dictate what you do. It is time to make her be an adult and realize that her decisions affect others!


----------



## happyman64

Greg

Were you able to find out what she really told her family by the way about your relationship status?

HM64


----------



## warlock07

You W is incredibly controlling and manipulating the R(if there is one). I bet she thinks she can have R without having to face the guilt of having an affair(The OM was not a reason for the A bullsh*t). Crying and being remorseful would somehow make her position in the relationship weak, I guess.



> In the morning, she's says that she has talked to OM and that she is going to go NC for 4 days, he says that she thinks she should. If she can last 4 days, she will go full NC, hand over all her passwords, agree to a key logger.


This is bad. So the OM suggested her that? That weak ass pathetic liar advised her to reconcile? If you R, he will be the martyr, the one that couldn't be because of fate etc etc . If you don't R, he is still the good-hearted man concerned for her well being over his own selfish feelings. He will win either way. 

I am repeating the obvious but she has little respect for you Greg. Her responses to you and the situation and finally taking the advice from OM to reconcile with you. I would be would be utterly humiliating to me if I were you. It is like he is letting you have you wife out of pity. 

I would seriously re-consider D if I were you. It would be fum to watch her decide to R and you deciding to D anyway.


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> That she couldn't live with me snooping on her for what could be forever. That she would rather live on her own than live what could amount to be a miserable life with me.


What she really means is, she has a track record of flirting with men online and establishing virtual relationships. And if you were going to become mutually transparent, sharing ALL of your hopes, dreams, and fears, that would be a REAL commitment, a REAL marriage. And being emotionally naked to you as close to 100% as possible would be an end to fun on the side.

As you realize, the type of virtual relationship she engaged in is far more of a fantasy than the usual affair. It elevates the person on the other end to near-nirvana perfection. They are easily able to hide their less attractive qualities, and your imagination fills in the gaps with wonderful attributes. Even if they had met, it wasn't often.

This type of fantasy is _escapist_, meaning that when life got her down, work wasn't going quite right, anxiety was building because of one thing or another, virtual flirting filled the bill.

What you saw was her realization that her favorite drug--an upper when she was sad and a downer when she was anxious--had to be gone not just for 4 days, but permanently. Understand, however, that in your wife's case, it wasn't really about HIM. It was about skirting appropriate boundaries in general when online with men. Losing _that_ was too much to bear.


----------



## Shaggy

Greg

- on the snooping , she is trying to guilt you into giving her back her freedom of secrecy to continue the affair. Since she's still in it, it is natural that she will try whatever she can to hide it, it's her basic instinct to do since she wants the A to continue and she knows its wrong. So she wants freedom to hide and lie.

Do not agree to any reduction in your checking. Do not let her guilt you into it, or negotiate it away. 

Its this checking that got you this far - don't stop.

- on the OM - follow through with contacting his wife. If you had sent the letter at the beginning it would have been there by now.

- See the fog logic working in her -- She insists that the OM isn't the problem in your marriage, and she isn't leaving because of him - YET - somehow her trying R or not depends on her going NC for 4 days? If he isn't why she is leaving then why is R dependent on her going NC for 4 days?


----------



## Chaparral

Reread your thread, both of you have been on a roller coaster. Emotions have been all over the place.

You are the guy that turned Prince Charming into the Toad he is. Give all this some time. Wife's fantasty land has crashed and burned. 

Qiut making moves you may want to go back on the next day. All this has happened really fast. I don't understand posters yelling for her head when all of this is just going according to the typical script. The big difference is how quickly the POSOM bailed. He never gave a real thought to leaving his wife and kids.

Read Marreid Mna Sex Life NOW! and follow the MAP plan. Reread the 180 and follow it until you get the MAP going. DO NOT MISREAD THE 180!

Be strong, kind, firm....................ie manly. NO more video games. Get out and go to the gym. Act like the world isn't coming to an end.............since it ain't. Distance yourself but let her know you are there then 180.

You both are bouncing around like ping pong balls, give her some time to see the light. Just don't let her see you as something less than you can be.


----------



## Shaggy

Greg

it's also worth noting that she is telling the OM all about what she is talking to you about, including the details of what you plan on doing 

BUT

She's upset that you are finding out the same about the OM and her and the OM's plans.

You can see that her loyalty is to the OM right now. I wonder if part of R is fear for the OM and the blowback into his life.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> Greg
> 
> - on the snooping , she is trying to guilt you into giving her back her freedom of secrecy to continue the affair. Since she's still in it, it is natural that she will try whatever she can to hide it, it's her basic instinct to do since she wants the A to continue and she knows its wrong. So she wants freedom to hide and lie.
> 
> Do not agree to any reduction in your checking. Do not let her guilt you into it, or negotiate it away.
> 
> Its this checking that got you this far - don't stop.
> 
> - on the OM - follow through with contacting his wife. If you had sent the letter at the beginning it would have been there by now.
> 
> - See the fog logic working in her -- She insists that the OM isn't the problem in your marriage, and she isn't leaving because of him - YET - somehow her trying R or not depends on her going NC for 4 days? If he isn't why she is leaving then why is R dependent on her going NC for 4 days?


I have a bit of a different take. If you believe the POSOM is afraid for his marriage like I do, I think you should contact him and tell him if there is any more contact you have the ways and means to contact his wife and you will give her every word he has written. Since this isn't a PA, I think holding this over his head is the most powerful weapon. Exposing to her now may cause them to break up and free him to go back after your wife.

If your wife moves out I would also expose him. Thesame if she doesn't allow you access to her communications.


----------



## Shaggy

chapparal said:


> I have a bit of a different take. If you believe the POSOM is afraid for his marriage like I do, I think you should contact him and tell him if there is any more contact you have the ways and means to contact his wife and you will give her every word he has written. Since this isn't a PA, I think holding this over his head is the most powerful weapon. Exposing to her now may cause them to break up and free him to go back after your wife.
> 
> If your wife moves out I would also expose him. Thesame if she doesn't allow you access to her communications.


This might work, but have we ever on TAM seen an instance where it did work? Eventually they get comfortable again and contact begins anew.

But it might work, it is possible.

It is also possible that OM didn't realize how real it has become and how it was very much about to become real in his own home.

edit to add: Remember that he was supposed to be all up for leaving his marriage - when then would he be afraid of his wife being told?


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> This might work, but have we ever on TAM seen an instance where it did work? Eventually they get comfortable again and contact begins anew.
> 
> But it might work, it is possible.
> 
> It is also possible that OM didn't realize how real it has become and how it was very much about to become real in his own home.
> 
> edit to add: Remember that he was supposed to be all up for leaving his marriage - when then would he be afraid of his wife being told?


The thing is everyone in this triangle has been reversing course at the drop of a hat. If they give it some time to actually think things through both families may be able to save their marriages. Its like poker, everything isn't on the table at one time. Many hands may have to be played. It does seem like Greg is likely to give up quickly with each setback.

They need to talk and see if they can repair their marriage. 

Two things that stand out for me is the comment Greg made about playing to many video games and most of all saying they had made no friends in eight years. Now he says she says he doesn't show emotion. There is something to work on right there. (If I remember correctly)


----------



## sunshinetoday

Sorry to hear about her email to OM Greg. What helped me get to real R was I plotted to take him back just to get him to a point where I could do the same thing to him. So I went along with it and something happened ... he was truly sorry his remorse was real. And slowly I came back and we have a true R. So my advice is it can take a while to realize you do want R. And please make sure the omw knows.


----------



## Chaparral

How did she know you looked on her computers by the way? You should have told he ryou would not have known she went back on her word, re NC, the first day if you had not looked. Occasionaly, logic actually gets through to someone in a fog but it usually takes time.


----------



## Shaggy

It sounds like she didn't break NC, but she hasn't been honest about why she was going to try it.


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> How did she know you looked on her computers by the way? You should have told he ryou would not have known she went back on her word, re NC, the first day if you had not looked. Occasionaly, logic actually gets through to someone in a fog but it usually takes time.


I, for one, am not saying they could never reconcile. But: there is a difference in their case that I think is important to point out. Her relationship with Greg40 started _precisely the same way_. Greg40 has not shared all the details, but he has said that he left an LTR to come to the U.S. for her after establishing an online relationship with her. This explains his rolling over and playing dead so rapidly, faster than most. Someone commented that this was 'alpha,' but my take on it is that he saw the handwriting on the wall.

Now, human beings are amazing creatures. You can have someone who has serial virtual relationships, with plenty of overlap, making their way through life--and then one day they come to understand how empty that is. It could happen. But this is the situation that they would be confronting--lots of therapy for her to understand why she engages in this sorry pattern of behavior.

(I take it Greg40 has already learned this lesson. I hope.)


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> It sounds like she didn't break NC, but she hasn't been honest about why she was going to try it.


I'm guessing she can't believe how fast POSOM let her go. Its unbelievable how women get so emotionally attached to men that have only one thing on their mind.

There is a reason he did not want to meet her until Dec. if then. He was definitely just playing her.


----------



## Greg40

EleGirl said:


> Well, some WS expect to be 100% trusted immediately. It's a silly thing to expect. It does take a very long time to re-earn trust.
> 
> There should be complete transparency in marriage. That means that both of you give the other all of the passwords to all of your computers and online accounts. you should be able to check each other's computers, cells, etc any time you want.
> 
> The point is that your wife has proven that she cannot be trusted. The only way you will learn to trust her over time is if you can check what she's doing online. Remember that the internet gives unprecedented ability to communicate with others and cheat. Thus it's perfectly reasonable that you would want to check up on her often for a long period of time. Even after a long time you might have what amount to panic attacks about this and really the only way to get through them is to go online and check what she's up to.
> 
> When I found out about my husband’s affairs on line I checked daily for at least a year. Then over time it got to be less and less. After the 2 year timeframe I was just sick and tired of checking so I stopped. But did spot check about once a year… And every time I checked he was back to cheating online. It finally got to the point that I did not care anymore if he cheated. It did not hurt anymore. As I told him I know that this is just him…. He’s a cheater who uses the internet for that purpose and I just don’t want to be involved with him anymore and I don’t want to feel like I have to check up on him. I’m not his mommy. I’ve divorced him. But there is no doubt in my mind because I was able to check all I wanted.
> 
> He did password protect his computer. But I’m a bit too computer savvy for a password to stop me when I want to see what’s going on.


Yes, like yourself, I would find her really hard to trust thoughtout R without the transparancy needed. 

I'm not sure before me how many relationships she developed that didn't start online.I'm going to guess most of them. 

She's used to have a dating profile for quite a while and has always been an online type during her 20's.

In her current headspace, which I'm sure she believes is crystal clear, that even with OM gone (and I will follow up with that) she doesn't want to lose the potential to pick up some more of that excitement being that she is emotionaly datached from me.

Thats kinda what I think.


After you got fed up with your H and went for a D. Was he upset ? Has he found another partner ? Do you know how he turned out ?


----------



## iheartlife

greg40 said:


> yes, like yourself, i would find her really hard to trust thoughtout r without the transparancy needed.
> 
> I'm not sure before me how many relationships she developed that didn't start online.i'm going to guess most of them.
> 
> She's used to have a dating profile for quite a while and has always been an online type during her 20's.
> 
> In her current headspace, which i'm sure she believes is crystal clear, that even with om gone (and i will follow up with that) she doesn't want to lose the potential to pick up some more of that excitement being that she is emotionaly datached from me.
> 
> Thats kinda what i think.


*exactly!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Greg40

TRy said:


> Do not beat yourself up. You played it right. There was nothing else that you could do. You went with your best odds, but still lost because there was no winning play. She is mad at you because to took away her affair drug. If you did not take the affair drug away, you were going to lose her for sure anyway, so you had nothing to lose trying it. Unfortunately, she was too far gone before you ended it.
> 
> Sorry for your pain. Perhaps if you move on, she will get out of the fog and feel remorse before the divorce is final, but it is best if you proceed as if it is over. Again, you played it right. Be well and good luck. Know that there is someone else out there that would love to grow old with you. someone that would never cheat on you. She is out there. Time to go find her.



Thanks try, I'm nodding at all of your post. 


I know I've got some difficult times ahead. She's moving out but it wont exactly be today. Then it will happen and i'll have to deal with that particular day and so on and so forth till we only have to deal via email for business.

Like you say, the odds really weren't very good.


----------



## iheartlife

iheartlife said:


> *exactly!!!!!!!!!*


Well, I spoke too soon. 

Leave OUT the "emotionally detached" part.

That is like the chicken and the egg. She EMOTIONALLY DETACHES FROM YOU by pouring all her energy into someone else.


----------



## Greg40

happyman64 said:


> And do not be afraid to tell her that it might be best if she leave and the two of you D. It is not what you want but cannot control her or her decisions.
> 
> Tell her that you have not changed. You are not emotionless. It was her that changed the status of your relationship by cheating. She is blinded by her feelings for someone else to even see let alone feel your emotions......
> 
> It was her that got involved with another man emotionally.
> 
> And remind her that she has been this way for months, while you have only had your world rocked by her actions for just over a week.
> 
> And point out to her that if she is going o remain so selfish and self centered then you would rather not be with her as well.
> 
> Her emotions are going to be on a roller oater as well as yours.
> 
> You can also tell her that it is hard for you to believe that a woman as smart as she is could act so damn stupid.
> 
> She really needs to open her eyes.
> 
> Just be aware that some people never do, while others do but it is already too late.


Yeah, she's leaving now. Probably this week sometime. She needs to get a lease sorted, arrange some movers etc. D is inevitable.


I haven't changed although I might be a bit emotionaless though. Its one of the things she mentioned quite a few times. 

I'm going to see what can be done about that. I mean, I haven't cried once.

yup its going to be an emotional few days.I'm trying my best to hide them (the ones I do show). 

I'm might avoid her today otherwise we'll probably start slinging comments at each other.

Thanks HM


----------



## aug

Greg40 said:


> I haven't changed although I might be a bit emotionaless though. Its one of the things she mentioned quite a few times.
> 
> I'm going to see what can be done about that. I mean, I haven't cried once.
> 
> yup its going to be an emotional few days.I'm trying my best to hide them (the ones I do show).


I think you're misunderstanding yourself. If you are emotional-less, then you should have no problem sleeping.

But you do have problems. You're probably a more logical type of person than an emotional one.


----------



## Tony55

Greg40 said:


> ... I'm accepting of the circumstance, she was cheating, she wants to leave.
> 
> Now, I also want to leave because after reading their conversations, theres nothing here for me, she's not the wife I married.
> 
> The best i can do right now is head for indifference, which would be awesome. I've been there before. I can also move on without making the split of our life and assets unbearable too.
> 
> It seems like the best play right now. and one that I'm quickly becoming accustomed to.


Greg, remember saying the above? She's not the wife you married. I would have a very hard time considering reconciliation with a wife that:

1. Wanted to leave me so badly, and
2. Who had the kind of conversations you alluded to with another man.

Stay strong and stay on track, dump her, toss her out, forget her, shun her, she isn't the woman you loved.


----------



## Chaparral

I can't seem to get a response from you about reading MMSL? Why? Are you stewing in self pity. Read the book to get back on track to man you used (hopefully) to be instead of the man you became over thelast eight years.

Here is a little inspiration:

Lady Gaga - Born This Way - YouTube


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, get out of the house and go to the gym, take in a man movie, make a friend, go to a bar. And don't tell her where you are going, none of her business.

Do you only have one car?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

The Expendables 2 would be a good diversion.


----------



## Chaparral

Send her this link:

Santana - While My Guitar Gently Weeps - YouTube


----------



## warlock07

So much respect for a 8 year marriage


----------



## Almostrecovered

when Lady Gaga gets linked is when I bow out


----------



## Greg40

aug said:


> I think you're misunderstanding yourself. If you are emotional-less, then you should have no problem sleeping.
> 
> But you do have problems. You're probably a more logical type of person than an emotional one.


id agree with that


----------



## Greg40

I do remember that.

I probably posted that fairly soon after reading them. 

You're right,stay strong, stay on track. I've just never been down this side of the track before, it's bumpy.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> I have a bit of a different take. If you believe the POSOM is afraid for his marriage like I do, I think you should contact him and tell him if there is any more contact you have the ways and means to contact his wife and you will give her every word he has written. Since this isn't a PA, I think holding this over his head is the most powerful weapon. Exposing to her now may cause them to break up and free him to go back after your wife.
> 
> If your wife moves out I would also expose him. Thesame if she doesn't allow you access to her communications.


She's moving out so I intend to tell OMW.

The wife is not happy for a variety of reasons.

The only downside is that finding an appropriate deliver agent is not proving as easy as I expected.

All of the ones I've contacted so far just aren't interested. Any ideas what I should be searching for ? Because googling PI's in the area hasn't provided anything.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> I can't seem to get a response from you about reading MMSL? Why? Are you stewing in self pity. Read the book to get back on track to man you used (hopefully) to be instead of the man you became over thelast eight years.
> 
> Here is a little inspiration:
> 
> Lady Gaga - Born This Way - YouTube


I've got a bunch of suggested books to pick up. I'll get down to Borders later.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> BTW, get out of the house and go to the gym, take in a man movie, make a friend, go to a bar. And don't tell her where you are going, none of her business.
> 
> Do you only have one car?


So far I've really only being taking the dogs for long walks. We have a Gym on our subdivision and a pool. I was surprised how much my stamina had dropped since I stopped doing sports lol.


We have 2 cars as of yesterday, she leased a new one for herself.


----------



## Tony55

I hope you realize that your wife hasn't given up hope for her married boyfriend, she's wanting to get out of the house so she can reestablish contact and assure him that its safe to continue and that he doesn't have to disclose to his wife yet. She just wants her fix. The only loose end that concerns her right now is the possibly that you will contact his wife, she isn't sure what to do about that. She's in desperate mode right now, it's like she needs crack and you're in the way. She's out of her mind right now. Saying she doesn't need her married boyfriend is a delusion, this is evident by the level of depression she experienced when she tried no contact.


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> The only downside is that finding an appropriate deliver agent is not proving as easy as I expected.
> 
> All of the ones I've contacted so far just aren't interested. Any ideas what I should be searching for ? Because googling PI's in the area hasn't provided anything.




Maybe I'm being really obtuse, but last time I checked, USPS will deliver a letter and require that it be signed for by the addressee only. Sorry if I'm missing something.


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> when Lady Gaga gets linked is when I bow out


You gotta be able to man up when the going gets tough.


----------



## Greg40

iheartlife said:


> Maybe I'm being really obtuse, but last time I checked, USPS will deliver a letter and require that it be signed for by the addressee only. Sorry if I'm missing something.


Excellent, I didn't know that. I'll get that sorted this week.

Great info thx :smthumbup:


----------



## SomedayDig

chapparal said:


> You gotta be able to man up when the going gets tough.


Yeah, but chap....Lady Gaga???!! LOL

At least do Henry Rollins or like Rage Against the Machine!


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> Excellent, I didn't know that. I'll get that sorted this week.
> 
> Great info thx :smthumbup:


USPS meaning U.S. postal service. Just go in and tell them precisely what you need, that you need to send a certified letter return receipt requested and you need to make sure that ONLY the addressee signs for it, so that they will guide you on what to pay for.

I forgot you were from the UK! Sorry about that!


----------



## Greg40

tdwal said:


> Greg do you intend to stay in business with her now that she is not reconciling?



We can operate the business even if we are separated.

It earns good money. And I'll need it when I'm on my own. As well as something to do (I'm self employed and the job market it not exactly great).

I'm not saying it wont be tough, but it wont be as tough as reducing the options available to me because much less money is coming in.

I'm prepared to chance it. It's almost as if I can cope with so much right now I don't want to add a regular job search on top.


----------



## iheartlife

iheartlife said:


> USPS meaning U.S. postal service. Just go in and tell them precisely what you need, that you need to send a certified letter return receipt requested and you need to make sure that ONLY the addressee signs for it, so that they will guide you on what to pay for.
> 
> I forgot you were from the UK! Sorry about that!


Greg40, I was looking at the USPS stuff and it says that their authorized agent can sign for it. Ask them what that means--it might be that anyone over a certain age in the household can sign for the letter. If they can't guarantee she will get it, talk to FedEx or UPS about their delivery services. Someone must have a way to ensure the confidential documents don't get handed to the wrong person. Maybe they'll refer to you to a private delivery service if they can't guarantee it falling into the wrong hands.


----------



## Greg40

Tony55 said:


> I hope you realize that your wife hasn't given up hope for her married boyfriend, she's wanting to get out of the house so she can reestablish contact and assure him that its safe to continue and that he doesn't have to disclose to his wife yet. She just wants her fix. The only loose end that concerns her right now is the possibly that you will contact his wife, she isn't sure what to do about that. She's in desperate mode right now, it's like she needs crack and you're in the way. She's out of her mind right now. Saying she doesn't need her married boyfriend is a delusion, this is evident by the level of depression she experienced when she tried no contact.



Yes, that is very true. From what I read on TAM, it can be weeks before even a tiny amount wears off. And that's if she continues NC.

I've told her that me contacting OMW "will" happen, he's 99% ran already so who knows what will happen there when OMW gets the package, things will get worse for OM and WW.

I have to begin the moving on process. I just really haven't come to terms yet that even though I know that OM bailed, that she didn't want to try R.


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> Yes, that is very true. From what I read on TAM, it can be weeks before even a tiny amount wears off. And that's if she continues NC.
> 
> I've told her that me contacting OMW "will" happen, he's 99% ran already so who knows what will happen there when OMW gets the package, things will get worse for OM and WW.
> 
> I have to begin the moving on process. I just really haven't come to terms yet that even though I know that OM bailed, that she didn't want to try R.


You have to give it time and see what happens. Usually, people here recommend talking to an attorney but give it a few weeks to make any life changing decisions. Do the MAP in MMSL and let it all play out for awhile.

You might be able to talk to a local PI that has the ability to connect with a PI in their area.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> You have to give it time and see what happens. Usually, people here recommend talking to an attorney but give it a few weeks to make any life changing decisions. Do the MAP in MMSL and let it all play out for awhile.
> 
> You might be able to talk to a local PI that has the ability to connect with a PI in their area.


So you think I should give it a while to contact OMW? 

I'm all for seeing how things work out. It's a risk if they pick it up again but maybe by then, I will have started to move on too.

Thanks chapparal


----------



## Greg40

tdwal said:


> It is going to be real hard to move on with this in a business partnership. I think it's going to eat you up inside.



I'm working on the business I type this lol. There's no way out of it really because we work in the same field, it's not going to be easy not bumping into her online anyway.

People have faced worse, that's what I tell myself.


----------



## Greg40

iheartlife said:


> Greg40, I was looking at the USPS stuff and it says that their authorized agent can sign for it. Ask them what that means--it might be that anyone over a certain age in the household can sign for the letter. If they can't guarantee she will get it, talk to FedEx or UPS about their delivery services. Someone must have a way to ensure the confidential documents don't get handed to the wrong person. Maybe they'll refer to you to a private delivery service if they can't guarantee it falling into the wrong hands.




No problem. I've got a few near me. And as you say there surely must be service that goes direct to the addressee.


----------



## Chaparral

You might fake it and put it in a package that only a woman would receive. Like from a jewelry store or something. I have no doubt he intercepted your first message.

You could also text him and tell him you have someone there ready to drop the bag on her if he makes/accepts any contact with your wife.


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> So you think I should give it a while to contact OMW?
> 
> I'm all for seeing how things work out. It's a risk if they pick it up again but maybe by then, I will have started to move on too.
> 
> Thanks chapparal


I hope chap clarifies, but I SERIOUSLY doubt that is what he's saying, chap, like many other vets, is a huge advocate of telling the OMW


----------



## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> I hope chap clarifies, but I SERIOUSLY doubt that is what he's saying, chap, like many other vets, is a huge advocate of telling the OMW


In almost every instance I agree with exposing. But since it isn't a PA and he has a chance of R, I think it might be wise to use his info to hold over the head of her AP. Blackmail, if you will. Unless thats illegal of course. LOL


----------



## warlock07

Expose as early as possible


----------



## Harken Banks

Greg40 said:


> No problem. I've got a few near me. And as you say there surely must be service that goes direct to the addressee.


Greg, you found OMW on Facebook, correct? If so, can you identify any of her Facebook friends who appear close and politely ask (understanding they may prefer not to be involved) whether they would assist in getting a message to OMW or ask OMW get in touch with you? This might be an avenue to try if you can't find a courier service that will deliver exclusively to OMW. Before going there, and if you strike out with the national courier services, you might also try a local courier service that delivers in person OMW's area.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I'll bet a process server would deliver to her for a fee. That's what they do after all.


----------



## Shaggy

How is your wife paying for the new car and appartment?

Marital assets that's how, and I'm betting she is spending like she has two incomes. 

The other issue is stop playing games with telling the OMW and just send it. If you are worried about interception send it twice, a coupe of days apart by separate routes.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Also a PI for around $200 can get her direct cell number


----------



## member2012

I just caught up on your recent posts Greg, and I just want to say that I sort of agree with holding back on the expose so you have something for later, however, I held off on exposing and I didn't get anywhere while I was waiting. 
After the 2nd d day I exposed, their relationship fell apart, and the fog finally started to clear, it still took some time, but that was the only thing that really stopped the A.


----------



## Tony55

I can't believe the discussion is still about whether to expose or not... The crux of the situation is that she is in contact with her cyber boyfriend, now, as we speak, she's in touch with him and she is trying to patch up her fantasy relationship. She's texting or calling or emailing, she's in touch with him. Whether or not you expose or how or when or why, is irrelevant, it doesn't serve any positive outcome other than forcing the cyber Romeo to possibly end it fully with Your wife, but then what??? Reconciliation? Seriously? I mean really??? Is that what you want? I wouldn't. 

Expose if you want and do it whenever you want for whatever reasons you want but come to terms with the reality, now, that you have a wife that you admit you can't stay with because of the things she said and did with her video cyber boyfriend.

Get used to being single for a while and focus on that. Write her off as a lost cause. Forget revenge or manipulation, move on.


----------



## betamale

I agree with Tony55, if you can't move on at least you could act like you have moved on, otherwise your STBxW will drive you nuts.


----------



## Greg40

Shaggy said:


> How is your wife paying for the new car and appartment?
> 
> Marital assets that's how, and I'm betting she is spending like she has two incomes.
> 
> The other issue is stop playing games with telling the OMW and just send it. If you are worried about interception send it twice, a coupe of days apart by separate routes.



I might have mentioned in a previous post that she isn't short of money. She (thanks to me getting her to stop spending on crap) has managed to save a very tidy sum. She also has a two decent incomes because she's employed and self employed.

The telling of OMW isn't a "moral" issue its one of timing. That might sound a poor reason to some posters and I understand that. It's just a case of me being comfortable with the timing of each decision.

One thing I found out today is that OM is going to Korea for one year in the next few months (forces deployment). I mean seriously how ill thought out were these decisions she made.


----------



## Greg40

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'll bet a process server would deliver to her for a fee. That's what they do after all.


Ok - I'll look at the UPS/fed ex options for hand delivered packages to the address and Process servers in the area.

Thanks


----------



## Greg40

Tony55 said:


> I can't believe the discussion is still about whether to expose or not... The crux of the situation is that she is in contact with her cyber boyfriend, now, as we speak, she's in touch with him and she is trying to patch up her fantasy relationship. She's texting or calling or emailing, she's in touch with him. Whether or not you expose or how or when or why, is irrelevant, it doesn't serve any positive outcome other than forcing the cyber Romeo to possibly end it fully with Your wife, but then what??? Reconciliation? Seriously? I mean really??? Is that what you want? I wouldn't.
> 
> Expose if you want and do it whenever you want for whatever reasons you want but come to terms with the reality, now, that you have a wife that you admit you can't stay with because of the things she said and did with her video cyber boyfriend.
> 
> Get used to being single for a while and focus on that. Write her off as a lost cause. Forget revenge or manipulation, move on.



She has admitted to not fully keeping NC and that a very brief contact was made yesterday. I'm obviously not happy about that but ultimately that call was made after she decided to move out and did not wish to R.

She also is fully aware of the OM's situation with deployment. And that in itself is causing a waking up she feels.

I hear what you're saying about in my shoes, that you wouldn't want R. I'm not entirely sure I want R. I told her that today was the first day since this started that I woke up without the "pit in my stomach" feeling. That I woke up, refreshed from a good nights sleep and everything was ok.

She still talks about moving out, she has found an apartment a few miles away and has the go ahead to move in next week.

For me, there is no need for revenge, maybe a little manipulation because there are things that I want. But should she see this through It really might be at this stage (knowing OMs situation etc) that this forced what ultimately would come anyway if she was more honest about her feelings of our relationship with me rather than finding An OM and an EA. We will see.


----------



## Greg40

betamale said:


> I agree with Tony55, if you can't move on at least you could act like you have moved on, otherwise your STBxW will drive you nuts.


I'm taking as many steps as I can with my limited means (ie everyone I know is 5000 miles away) to move on.


----------



## Entropy3000

Greg40 said:


> She has admitted to not fully keeping NC and that a very brief contact was made yesterday. I'm obviously not happy about that but ultimately that call was made after she decided to move out and did not wish to R.
> 
> She also is fully aware of the OM's situation with deployment. And that in itself is causing a waking up she feels.
> 
> I hear what you're saying about in my shoes, that you wouldn't want R. I'm not entirely sure I want R. I told her that today was the first day since this started that I woke up without the "pit in my stomach" feeling. That I woke up, refreshed from a good nights sleep and everything was ok.
> 
> She still talks about moving out, she has found an apartment a few miles away and has the go ahead to move in next week.
> 
> For me, there is no need for revenge, maybe a little manipulation because there are things that I want. But should she see this through It really might be at this stage (knowing OMs situation etc) that this forced what ultimately would come anyway if she was more honest about her feelings of our relationship with me rather than finding An OM and an EA. We will see.


Her contact completely resets the clock. It would be another month to two months.

I do think he dumped her, BUT if she was isolated from you he would be back in the game.

It is also remotely possible they set you up with that communication. After all she knew you looked at it. She may indeed have other ways to contact him. He may have been faking the NC for your benefit.

But true or not your wife is way deep in the fog. She does not want transpaency for the reasons suggested. This is her lifestyle.


----------



## Greg40

tdwal said:


> Tell your wife your turning it over to the military, that will scare the heck out if him.


That's a very interesting suggestion.

Thanks tdwal, I didn't realize that the military could go that ballistic.


----------



## Wazza

Greg40 said:


> That's a very interesting suggestion.
> 
> Thanks tdwal, I didn't realize that the military could go that ballistic.


From reading on the board here I think you have to prove intercourse has taken place. Others with more knowledge may confirm or deny.


----------



## Greg40

Entropy3000 said:


> Her contact completely resets the clock. It would be another month to two months.
> 
> I do think he dumped her, BUT if she was isolated from you he would be back in the game.
> 
> It is also remotely possible they set you up with that communication. After all she knew you looked at it. She may indeed have other ways to contact him. He may have been faking the NC for your benefit.
> 
> But true or not your wife is way deep in the fog. She does not want transpaency for the reasons suggested. This is her lifestyle.


Yup and I said the same to her today, if she was serious about R, any contact is going to set the whole process back.

We talked a bit today about that contact and OMs situation. She does seem genuinely aware that there is no reality where they can be together. She is however, still in love with OM and probably still hurting a due to her missing drug. But now theres been contact, she's got that little fix again.

The email communication where he told her he supported R, was found on her tablet. It goes with her everywhere and I suspect she thought the info was fairly safe. It would have been way easier to have set it up on her work PC. But, never say never right 

Obviously I can only talk to her so much about the ridiculousness of her an OM's situation. If she really wants R, she'll do whats necessary.

I've already told her that I'm going to be way moved on pretty soon and to get your head straight and that NC is the only way you can start on that road.


----------



## Entropy3000

Greg40 said:


> Yup and I said the same to her today, if she was serious about R, any contact is going to set the whole process back.
> 
> We talked a bit today about that contact and OMs situation. She does seem genuinely aware that there is no reality where they can be together. She is however, still in love with OM and probably still hurting a due to her missing drug. But now theres been contact, she's got that little fix again.
> 
> The email communication where he told her he supported R, was found on her tablet. It goes with her everywhere and I suspect she thought the info was fairly safe. It would have been way easier to have set it up on her work PC. But, never say never right
> 
> Obviously I can only talk to her so much about the ridiculousness of her an OM's situation. If she really wants R, she'll do whats necessary.
> 
> I've already told her that I'm going to be way moved on pretty soon and to get your head straight and that NC is the only way you can start on that road.


On a slightly positive note breaking NC is very common even with those who eventually R. No it is not good, but if it happens at a first ry and early on it is not the end of the world. It depends of course what that contact is. What would be bad is if that contact was to communicate about another method for future communication. But do not assume that. Just be aware.


----------



## Greg40

Entropy3000 said:


> On a slightly positive note breaking NC is very common even with those who eventually R. No it is not good, but if it happens at a first ry and early on it is not the end of the world. It depends of course what that contact is. What would be bad is if that contact was to communicate about another method for future communication. But do not assume that. Just be aware.



Indeed, If I am to believe my WW the contact was because he thought the she had called from our land-line or something. Apparently it was brief.


On an interesting note, OM did actually call our land line today and I picked up. Naturally I knew the number instantly since seeing it so many times on call logs.

I thought may it was OMW.

No it was OM who then remained silent for a bit. So I say "you may as well talk, now that you're on the line, don't put the phone down face up to this."

So he starts talking, typical OM stuff "didn't mean it to go this far, it was just a friendship that developed" blah blah.

I point out to him that this EA is beyond ridiculous and you're best served by cutting all contact, you either have no intention or ability to take this to a permanent level no matter how much nonsense you try to fill WW's head with.

As a parting shot, I simply say "you have a whole lot to lose here friend'

The WW wasn't pleased (she'd come into the room during the conversation). Of course I'm the villain here for breaking up the party.

She's moving out this coming Sunday and I urged her to avoid trying to fill that void. To put up with the pain that will come with loss and not make the mistake of trying to fill it by connecting with OM again, or any other person for a good while.

Who knows if she'll take that advice.


----------



## warlock07

Stop trying to help her see the light. You cannot help her, she has to help herself.


----------



## Mike11

Greg40 said:


> Indeed, If I am to believe my WW the contact was because he thought the she had called from our land-line or something. Apparently it was brief.
> 
> 
> On an interesting note, OM did actually call our land line today and I picked up. Naturally I knew the number instantly since seeing it so many times on call logs.
> 
> I thought may it was OMW.
> 
> No it was OM who then remained silent for a bit. So I say "you may as well talk, now that you're on the line, don't put the phone down face up to this."
> 
> So he starts talking, typical OM stuff "didn't mean it to go this far, it was just a friendship that developed" blah blah.
> 
> I point out to him that this EA is beyond ridiculous and you're best served by cutting all contact, you either have no intention or ability to take this to a permanent level no matter how much nonsense you try to fill WW's head with.
> 
> As a parting shot, I simply say "you have a whole lot to lose here friend'
> 
> The WW wasn't pleased (she'd come into the room during the conversation). Of course I'm the villain here for breaking up the party.
> 
> She's moving out this coming Sunday and I urged her to avoid trying to fill that void. To put up with the pain that will come with loss and not make the mistake of trying to fill it by connecting with OM again, or any other person for a good while.
> 
> Who knows if she'll take that advice.


Well Done Greg

Hats off you handled this well, 

your WW will be pissed as hell, but it will be the first glimpse of realizations that she will go trough coming out of the fog

let her go on her own, I doubt she will stay away from you for long 

Stay strong, you are doing well driving this now


----------



## Malaise

Greg40 said:


> Indeed, If I am to believe my WW the contact was because he thought the she had called from our land-line or something. Apparently it was brief.
> 
> 
> On an interesting note, OM did actually call our land line today and I picked up. Naturally I knew the number instantly since seeing it so many times on call logs.
> 
> I thought may it was OMW.
> 
> No it was OM who then remained silent for a bit. So I say "you may as well talk, now that you're on the line, don't put the phone down face up to this."
> 
> So he starts talking, typical OM stuff "didn't mean it to go this far, it was just a friendship that developed" blah blah.
> 
> I point out to him that this EA is beyond ridiculous and you're best served by cutting all contact, you either have no intention or ability to take this to a permanent level no matter how much nonsense you try to fill WW's head with.
> 
> As a parting shot, I simply say "you have a whole lot to lose here friend'
> 
> The WW wasn't pleased (she'd come into the room during the conversation). Of course I'm the villain here for breaking up the party.
> 
> She's moving out this coming Sunday and I urged her to avoid trying to fill that void. To put up with the pain that will come with loss and not make the mistake of trying to fill it by connecting with OM again, or any other person for a good while.
> 
> Who knows if she'll take that advice.


Greg

I would have no problem doing anything possible to F this guy up bigtime. From the eventual exposing to his wife, to telling his unit CO (on the chance that it could a problem even without proof of intercourse). Anything would be on the table.

I guess I'm just a vindictive ba$tard


----------



## Eli-Zor

Greg40 said:


> I might have mentioned in a previous post that she isn't short of money. She (thanks to me getting her to stop spending on crap) has managed to save a very tidy sum. She also has a two decent incomes because she's employed and self employed.
> 
> The telling of OMW isn't a "moral" issue its one of timing. That might sound a poor reason to some posters and I understand that. It's just a case of me being comfortable with the timing of each decision.
> 
> One thing I found out today is that OM is going to Korea for one year in the next few months (forces deployment). I mean seriously how ill thought out were these decisions she made.


What timing issue ? Please stop procrastinating and get hold of his wife .

Not only can we write a book of excuses a wayward uses to validate their affair we can refer you the end chapter where BS's come up multiple reasons not to expose. We cannot tell you enough how important it is for you to cause a rift in their affairworld. 

Who told you he is off to Korea and why would that effect your decision to expose, if it is true all it does is give him more of a free hand to be in contact with your wife . 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Eli-Zor said:


> What timing issue ? Please stop procrastinating and get hold of his wife .
> 
> Not only can we write a book of excuses a wayward uses to validate their affair we can refer you the end chapter where BS's come up multiple reasons not to expose. We cannot tell you enough how important it is for you to cause a rift in their affairworld.
> 
> Who told you he is off to Korea and why would that effect your decision to expose, if it is true all it does is give him more of a free hand to be in contact with your wife .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Since your wife is definitely moving out you need to contact OMW and the military now. He's still playing her. He was trying to get in touch with her by land line and you intercepted. He was going to tell her to get a burner phone. He thinks you are monitoring all the other ways she has been communicating.

Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40 said:


> I urged her to avoid trying to fill that void. To put up with the pain that will come with loss and not make the mistake of trying to fill it by connecting with OM again, or any other person for a good while.
> 
> Who knows if she'll take that advice.


You know, as long as you're saying this in a self-confident tone, conveying that YOU could give a rat's ass whether she does this or not--because you will be fine without her--have at it.

She is going to remember these words. They will ring in her ears. 

She is running away from who she really is inside, and it may not catch up to her until she's 80, but the truth has a way of hitting home.

But NO begging and NO crying and NO use of this to try to get her back. This is just someone who knows her extremely well trying to keep her from driving over HER OWN CLIFF. It doesn't have much to do with you at all.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Greg40 said:


> She's moving out this coming Sunday and I urged her to avoid trying to fill that void. To put up with the pain that will come with loss and not make the mistake of trying to fill it by connecting with OM again, or any other person for a good while.
> 
> Who knows if she'll take that advice.


She won't, if anything she'll try to hook up with him out of spite.

Most people in this situation have to learn things the hard way. If anything, you should have pushed her to go to him (she will be compelled to do the opposite of what you wish) just so she can experience the failure first hand. That or not actually go to him simply because you said to do it.


Let her crash and burn, she need to learn this lesson and ignore, ignore, ignore. Go as much NC on her as possible.


----------



## Shaggy

So she and the OM have got you back to paying the game entirely on their schedule and terms.

Once again, you need to contact the OMW and you need to do it ASAP.


----------



## Thor

You are trying to get your wife back. Guess what? She does not exist any longer. This experience has changed her deeply and forever. She wasn't the person you thought she was, and now she is even further away from who you thought she was.

You might get this new woman to come to you. You might build an entirely new relationship. But have no illusions that the woman you married exists. Have no illusions that your old marriage can ever be resurrected.

So what exactly are you trying to achieve? What is it about her that you want? What kind of relationship are you trying to build with this person?

I know all too well the desire to recover the marriage, but it is not possible. All you can do is start a new relationship with this new person. Be sure to be living in reality, not in some kind of self pity or fear induced quest.


----------



## WalkingInLight

Greg40 said:


> Indeed, If I am to believe my WW the contact was because he thought the she had called from our land-line or something. Apparently it was brief.
> 
> 
> On an interesting note, OM did actually call our land line today and I picked up. Naturally I knew the number instantly since seeing it so many times on call logs.
> 
> I thought may it was OMW.
> 
> No it was OM who then remained silent for a bit. So I say "you may as well talk, now that you're on the line, don't put the phone down face up to this."
> 
> So he starts talking, typical OM stuff "didn't mean it to go this far, it was just a friendship that developed" blah blah.
> 
> I point out to him that this EA is beyond ridiculous and you're best served by cutting all contact, you either have no intention or ability to take this to a permanent level no matter how much nonsense you try to fill WW's head with.
> 
> As a parting shot, I simply say "you have a whole lot to lose here friend'
> 
> The WW wasn't pleased (she'd come into the room during the conversation). Of course I'm the villain here for breaking up the party.
> 
> She's moving out this coming Sunday and I urged her to avoid trying to fill that void. To put up with the pain that will come with loss and not make the mistake of trying to fill it by connecting with OM again, or any other person for a good while.
> 
> Who knows if she'll take that advice.


As someone who was able to reconcile with my FWW, If R is what you had hoped for, you are going about this the wrong way.


----------



## sharkeey

Greg

You are still saying too much to her. You tell her this is the first day you woke up without a feeling in the pit of your stomach, and that you will be "moved on" soon so if she wants back with you she better hurry up

Meanwhile, she's moving out, she's told you she isn't interested in reconciling, she's told you she's in love with the OM who has the nerve to call your home.. and she's upset because you took his call..

This is crazy. You need to stop talking to this woman and live your life like she's gone, because you WANT her gone. Not "you better hurry up and come to your senses and come back to me because you're running out of time".

Your words and actions are one of a guy who is willing to put up with anything his wife does, as long as she comes home when she's done having her fun, and that my friend will not bring her back to you. I doubt anything will, which is why you need to toughen up and stop chasing her, which in effect is what you're still doing and will continue to do until you finally see that all hope of reconciliation is lost.


----------



## Greg40

sharkeey said:


> Greg
> 
> You are still saying too much to her. You tell her this is the first day you woke up without a feeling in the pit of your stomach, and that you will be "moved on" soon so if she wants back with you she better hurry up
> 
> Meanwhile, she's moving out, she's told you she isn't interested in reconciling, she's told you she's in love with the OM who has the nerve to call your home.. and she's upset because you took his call..
> 
> This is crazy. You need to stop talking to this woman and live your life like she's gone, because you WANT her gone. Not "you better hurry up and come to your senses and come back to me because you're running out of time".
> 
> Your words and actions are one of a guy who is willing to put up with anything his wife does, as long as she comes home when she's done having her fun, and that my friend will not bring her back to you. I doubt anything will, which is why you need to toughen up and stop chasing her, which in effect is what you're still doing and will continue to do until you finally see that all hope of reconciliation is lost.



It's difficult to not say certain things. I find myself pausing quite a lot before I say anything. 

Naturally, some things will be said that can't be taken back if I reconsider straight after lol

I realize at the current time that everything is moving towards a break-up and not a reconciliation. And that it will be easier to deal with that when she is not here, maybe not straight away but certainly once I get used to the new circumstances it will do. She can't leave until Sunday, so there is no way that we are able to avoid being here at the same time, we have to work still. And of course, we end up talking about things, re-hashing old [email protected] etc.

OM didn't call her knowingly, it was a mistake on his part. He's never called the land-line because if he chose to contact her, there are far easier ways.

I really hope my words and actions aren't as you describe, I'm sure to some they will appear that way but in order to do as much as I could to at least cover all the options, I felt that I should leave the door open to begin with, I didn't exactly expect her to take it because she's not in that head space and of course, she didn't.


----------



## Chaparral

Well if you would read the 180 and the MAP plan you would be way better off. For whatever reason this keeps going over your head. Another communication break down.

BTW How could he have possibly, accidently, called your landline by mistake? Thats ridiculus. One of them told you that didn't they?


----------



## donders

Greg40 said:


> there is no way that we are able to avoid being here at the same time, we have to work still. And of course, we end up talking about things, re-hashing old [email protected] etc.


You can control this, and you can avoid talking about anything other than essentials. If you REALLY have such poor self control that you can't help but get sucked into these conversations than there are bigger issues here that need to be addressed.



Greg40 said:


> OM didn't call her knowingly, it was a mistake on his part.


How did he accidentally call her? Are you suggesting he meant to call her cell but called the landline because it's in his phone's contact list? If so, how is that mistake any better than his intent? No other mistake is plausible, sorry.


----------



## Wazza

chapparal said:


> Well if you would read the 180 and the MAP plan you would be way better off. For whatever reason this keeps going over your head. Another communication break down.
> 
> BTW *How could he have possibly, accidently, called your landline by mistake? *Thats ridiculus. One of them told you that didn't they?


I admit the same thought crossed my mind. If OM had the number surely it had been used before. If he didn't then he mistakenly looked it up?

Is it possible he wanted to talk to you, not her, for some reason?


----------



## Greg40

donders said:


> You can control this, and you can avoid talking about anything other than essentials. If you REALLY have such poor self control that you can't help but get sucked into these conversations than there are bigger issues here that need to be addressed.
> 
> 
> 
> How did he accidentally call her? Are you suggesting he meant to call her cell but called the landline because it's in his phone's contact list? If so, how is that mistake any better than his intent? No other mistake is plausible, sorry.


It doesn't feel like poor self control, I've barely bought anything up since she's been back.. It happens on occasion when we talk about something like "did you get the apartment and when are you moving out"

I'll make a mental note for next time. Its all re-hash now, nothings changed.

Our number is on his phone because I called theirs a few times to speak to OMW. If he wanted contact with WW, there are far easier ways of getting hold of her without the risk of me picking up


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> Well if you would read the 180 and the MAP plan you would be way better off. For whatever reason this keeps going over your head. Another communication break down.
> 
> BTW How could he have possibly, accidently, called your landline by mistake? Thats ridiculus. One of them told you that didn't they?



I've tried to implement the 180 as much as possible within the confines of our zero social circle. When she's moved out obviously I wont be around at all.

When I picked up,he said he wasn't meant to call our number, that he was trying to call someone else and hit redial by mistake. He's never called it before and didn't want to speak.

If he wanted to speak to her directly, it would be a thousand times easier to dial her cell.


----------



## donders

Greg40 said:


> When I picked up,he said he wasn't meant to call our number, that he was trying to call someone else and hit redial by mistake. He's never called it before and didn't want to speak.
> 
> If he wanted to speak to her directly, it would be a thousand times easier to dial her cell.


He "accidentaly hit redial?" That would happen only if he dialed your home number twice in a row. Sorry nothing you said makes sense about him calling the house. 

He most likely WAS trying to dial her cell but called the home phone by mistake.

He knows she's moving out and he's probably over eager with anticipation at the opportunity.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I've called wrong numbers on my caller ID log many times. I go in the log and sometimes only shows the time/date. So if I'm trying to return a call sometimes I'll choose the wrong number. 

Usually get the right area code though.


----------



## Chris Taylor

From everything I read, your wife isn't concentrating on OM. Yes she's contacted him. I think it has come to a point where she wants out. Period. 

She doesn't have to go to him. She doesn't have to wait until he returns. She has checked out of the marriage for reasons other than OM. OM just showed her something OUTSIDE the marriage and that is where she is headed.

If you try a reconciliation, I think you will end up in a marriage where your wife is unhappy and you are distrustful.

Let her move out and get on with your life.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Chris Taylor said:


> From everything I read, your wife isn't concentrating on OM. Yes she's contacted him. I think it has come to a point where she wants out. Period.
> 
> She doesn't have to go to him. She doesn't have to wait until he returns. She has checked out of the marriage for reasons other than OM. OM just showed her something OUTSIDE the marriage and that is where she is headed.
> 
> If you try a reconciliation, I think you will end up in a marriage where your wife is unhappy and you are distrustful.
> 
> Let her move out and get on with your life.



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## iheartlife

Chris Taylor said:


> From everything I read, your wife isn't concentrating on OM. Yes she's contacted him. I think it has come to a point where she wants out. Period.
> 
> She doesn't have to go to him. She doesn't have to wait until he returns. She has checked out of the marriage for reasons other than OM. OM just showed her something OUTSIDE the marriage and that is where she is headed.
> 
> If you try a reconciliation, I think you will end up in a marriage where your wife is unhappy and you are distrustful.
> 
> Let her move out and get on with your life.


I totally disagree.

What I see is a woman who has a pattern of behavior, and I bet you a pile of money it extends all the way back to her teen years and every romantic relationship that she's had.

When the going gets tough, she moves on, without bothering to tell the man she's with that this is her intention. She finds a likely target, and she gets into a virtual flirtation with them. She keeps a bunch of irons in the fire--not just one--because you can't be sure how it will pan out with any of them. When one really starts to heat up, she devotes a lot more energy toward that long distance virtual relationship over the others. Pretty soon, she's infatuated with them, and it's time to move on and tell her current man "it's over."

There is nothing that the OM showed her about anything. She is AVOIDING introspection and self-discovery with these relationships--that would take far too much effort, energy, and pain. That is WHY she does what she does. Greg40 is just her _latest_ victim in her quest to still the negative voices inside her.


----------



## Greg40

Chris Taylor said:


> From everything I read, your wife isn't concentrating on OM. Yes she's contacted him. I think it has come to a point where she wants out. Period.
> 
> She doesn't have to go to him. She doesn't have to wait until he returns. She has checked out of the marriage for reasons other than OM. OM just showed her something OUTSIDE the marriage and that is where she is headed.
> 
> If you try a reconciliation, I think you will end up in a marriage where your wife is unhappy and you are distrustful.
> 
> Let her move out and get on with your life.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## iheartlife

Well Greg40, you know far better than I.


----------



## Greg40

iheartlife said:


> Well Greg40, you know far better than I.



Well, not really, I agree with you too. I think its a combination and we just had a talk about this very thing.

She becomes unhappy, finds a "friend" online that develops further, allows herself to move on even further emotionally and when it gets discovered, she's in that indifferent place where moving on (likely in this circumstance without OM at all) is possible. OM apparently then becomes a symptom, to her, not the reason, the reasons were there before OM and she feels that she gave plenty of warnings about those reasons over a period of years.

Without re-writing history or guessing as to what was said when, we have had the occasional talk over the years about how I don't demonstrate emotions. I don't think they were sufficient warnings, she would beg to differ.

So wherever we are now, she is not emotionally invested in this M and you can't R on you're own.


----------



## jh52

tdwal said:


> Funny how all the justifications change when the OM dumped her.


and it's always the BS who is at fault.


----------



## Tony55

Well, anyway you slice it, you"ll be ok. She'll be gone, you can focus on yourself, and put this nightmare behind you. You aren't the first to have to go through this and you won't be the last, it sucks. Months from now you'll look back and see that this was the right thing to do. Living with someone who betrayed you like this would not have been an easy undertaking; it would have been a living hell of uncertainty.


----------



## Greg40

Things took a dramatic turn the last few days, with moving only a few days away WW wants to R.

Basically, she says she doesn't want to lose what we have, she has sent an email to OM re NC.

I just installed the keylogger (again) on her PC and got the passwords for the few accounts that she has that I hadn't managed to work out. 

She's pretty much crying her eyes out now because she realizes the privacy that she threw away.

I said there was another option, move out. Maybe she'll decide over night that this is the only way, who knows.


Does anyone know a good Keylogger for Android devices. Phone and tablet aren't done yet, I told her, so she's naturally going to use them as if they are, but I cant find anything that will do the job.


----------



## Complexity

Wait, is she crying over her lack of privacy or at how badly she f'd up?


----------



## Almostrecovered

that was part of the problem in the marriage, aside from surprise parties and what's under the three, why should there be any secrets?


----------



## Chaparral

If she wants to reconcile, total transparency is a must. Any hesitance about this is total fail.

One thing you have to work on is your lack of a support network, i.e. a lack os a social network of friends. You are way to dependent on each other.

Here is a set of instructions for the wayward spouse that has helped a lot of people. Study this list with your wife. It should help you both.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## justonelife

Complexity said:


> Wait, is she crying over her lack of privacy or at how badly she f'd up?


:scratchhead:

I'm wondering about this too. I would be very suspicious about her sudden desire to R. Her AP rejected her so that might be the reason for the sudden change of heart.

And yeah, she's crying because she lost her privacy??? If she's not contacting the OM anymore, what is there to be so private about?


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## the guy

Greg40 said:


> I thought about that and if I hadn't read some of their conversations, yes.
> 
> 
> Now though, I'm really better off making the split now, irrespective of whether second thoughts arise.
> 
> If I don't do it now, and we reconcile instead, I know that there's always a chance that i'll be back here again.


This was a couple of weeks ago, I wonder if you feel the same way with regards to her relapsing down the road with a different guy?


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## Greg40

Complexity said:


> Wait, is she crying over her lack of privacy or at how badly she f'd up?


She said that when I said that this would be the reality, she was initially not happy about never having a private thought.

So for example, she thinks that it means I would read every little thing on her PC. Emails to her parents and the like.

I've explained that I'm not interested in reading your personal emails to family members, I need to rebuild trust, see that you've categorically maintained NC but ultimately, your actions are also going to speak volumes.

I'm treading carefully over this turnaround, trust went to zero and its still there.


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## Greg40

Almostrecovered said:


> that was part of the problem in the marriage, aside from surprise parties and what's under the three, why should there be any secrets?


Initially it wasn't a problem, she had 7 years of me not bothering to look at her PC.

I snooped a bit in the first year, I knew we both came into this via an online relationship and I wanted to 100% make sure I was the only one in the picture.

Once that wore off, there was no need, the relationship was good. It's the last 10 months that she's been unhappy and only the last 2-3 months that she's been talking to someone online. Obviously they were friends *****ing about their respective marriages and it developed. 

It wasn't snooping that got her caught, it was her everyday behaviors.

And yes, there shouldn't be secrets anyway, some people, they're just not that honest in relationships when theirs is in trouble.


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## Greg40

Thanks Chap, printing that out.


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## Greg40

justonelife said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> I'm wondering about this too. I would be very suspicious about her sudden desire to R. Her AP rejected her so that might be the reason for the sudden change of heart.
> 
> And yeah, she's crying because she lost her privacy??? If she's not contacting the OM anymore, what is there to be so private about?


You're not the only one 

It's one of those things where she says that OM is not the primary reason at all (she's mentioned that many times when I've bought OM up).


That she's been unhappy for about 10 months and OM was there (who was also in an unhappy marriage) about 8 months into that period, then it was discovered 2 months later.

As for the privacy thing, contacting the OM is one thing, she isn't doing that and certainly not now from the devices she has.

She's partly mourning the loss of any form of private life I think. She's not used to it of course, never had to do it. So she believes that everything she writes down or page she visits will be under scrutiny. Which it will be for a while lol but, ultimately her behaviors will tell me just as much as a keylogger.


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## Greg40

the guy said:


> This was a couple of weeks ago, I wonder if you feel the same way with regards to her relapsing down the road with a different guy?


I think she knows that she deals with relationships in a not so mature way when there is trouble.

She would not fully agree, that she tried to communicate and I was not hearing. 

Anyway, she has her version of what is good communication and if it doesn't work and even though an online friendship doesn't start romantically, she doesn't spot the point where it does. Then doesn't stop it when she realizes it's gone a bit far and clearly allows herself to fall straight down the rabbit hole to get what she feels she's missing.

I think that this will come out in MC (starts next week). So if these behaviors can be identified, recognized and worked on/corrected, I would have less worry for the future.


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## justonelife

Greg40 said:


> You're not the only one
> 
> It's one of those things where she says that OM is not the primary reason at all (she's mentioned that many times when I've bought OM up).
> 
> 
> That she's been unhappy for about 10 months and OM was there (who was also in an unhappy marriage) about 8 months into that period, then it was discovered 2 months later.
> 
> She's partly mourning the loss of any form of private life I think. She's not used to it of course, never had to do it. So she believes that everything she writes down or page she visits will be under scrutiny. Which it will be for a while lol but, ultimately her behaviors will tell me just as much as a keylogger.


2 things I see:

1. If it wasn't about the OM and she really was unhappy in the marriage, what has changed now? Why is she suddenly interested in reconciling and convinced that you guys can work this out? It seems like she tried very hard to convince you that her leaving had nothing to do with the OM, then the OM bailed and she suddenly wants to reconcile? I'd want to know what changed and what will prevent the same thing from happening again, especially since this is a pattern with her.

2. I still don't totally understand the privacy thing. You are her husband. I'm not saying I would want my husband looking over my shoulder constantly either. People should be entitled to a little privacy but if I effed up this bad, that would be the least of my worries. I would be WAY more concerned about winning back his trust. If this is a big issue for her, she will start to resent your interference and she will be unhappy again.

It doesn't sound like she is very remorseful. It sounds like she almost blames you for her affair (since she "tried" to communicate and you didn't listen) and now she is only wanting to reconcile because the OM has left and it's easier to stick around with you until the next guy comes around. JMO. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see a lot of good signs coming from her.


----------



## warlock07

Somehow I am not too sure if she would be willing to do the hard work required for R based on your posts. How did she bring up the R again after putting you down consistently ? How did she decide to R? Did the OM advise her to ?


----------



## Wazza

justonelife said:


> 2 things I see:
> 
> 1. If it wasn't about the OM and she really was unhappy in the marriage, what has changed now? Why is she suddenly interested in reconciling and convinced that you guys can work this out? It seems like she tried very hard to convince you that her leaving had nothing to do with the OM, then the OM bailed and she suddenly wants to reconcile? I'd want to know what changed and what will prevent the same thing from happening again, especially since this is a pattern with her.
> 
> 2. I still don't totally understand the privacy thing. You are her husband. I'm not saying I would want my husband looking over my shoulder constantly either. People should be entitled to a little privacy but if I effed up this bad, that would be the least of my worries. I would be WAY more concerned about winning back his trust. If this is a big issue for her, she will start to resent your interference and she will be unhappy again.
> 
> It doesn't sound like she is very remorseful. It sounds like she almost blames you for her affair (since she "tried" to communicate and you didn't listen) and now she is only wanting to reconcile because the OM has left and it's easier to stick around with you until the next guy comes around. JMO. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see a lot of good signs coming from her.


When the fog descends the WS goes crazy. When it lifts they go "What have I done?"

It is possible the fog is starting to lift and she is in a very confused state right now.

Not saying her motives are good or bad, I don't know. But not everyone who talks about R is blowing smoke.


----------



## Wazza

tdwal said:


> I pray that she is sincere. Greg praying for you guys.


You can't know. You just have to weight things up and decide when to risk it. So hard......


----------



## Acabado

Wazza said:


> You can't know. You just have to weight things up and decide when to risk it. So hard......


Assuming she's NC I'd spend time and energy to see whether the marriage can be saved. At least for a while.


----------



## Greg40

justonelife said:


> 2 things I see:
> 
> 1. If it wasn't about the OM and she really was unhappy in the marriage, what has changed now? Why is she suddenly interested in reconciling and convinced that you guys can work this out? It seems like she tried very hard to convince you that her leaving had nothing to do with the OM, then the OM bailed and she suddenly wants to reconcile? I'd want to know what changed and what will prevent the same thing from happening again, especially since this is a pattern with her.
> 
> 2. I still don't totally understand the privacy thing. You are her husband. I'm not saying I would want my husband looking over my shoulder constantly either. People should be entitled to a little privacy but if I effed up this bad, that would be the least of my worries. I would be WAY more concerned about winning back his trust. If this is a big issue for her, she will start to resent your interference and she will be unhappy again.
> 
> It doesn't sound like she is very remorseful. It sounds like she almost blames you for her affair (since she "tried" to communicate and you didn't listen) and now she is only wanting to reconcile because the OM has left and it's easier to stick around with you until the next guy comes around. JMO. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see a lot of good signs coming from her.



In answer to (1) I truly don't know yet. I asked and she said "I owe it to our marriage". I replied that "you really don't and after some of the things you said, I don't see how you could really want it". She said that she didn't mean those things that way . 

I've also mentioned that I realize that there are no guarantees and that if she wants to do this for the right reasons, then we will try and that there are always rent-able apartments.

In answer to (2) my wife has always had an independent life, never had any one tell her what to do, what not to do, or to offer an opinion contrary to her own. Along, with independence comes the never really having to answer for your actions/decisions or people you talk. Now for her, all that's gone and life is misery because I will see every little thing she does, be it email a private thought to her friend or do something stupid like re-connect with the OM. I have said I don,t need to see everything but, I do need transparency.

I'm not entirely sure she is fully remorseful, some blame shifting is still evident and although she says that she can separate the decision she made to have an EA from the lead up to it, conversations do have a healthy dose of issues that she feels were prior.

I'm not convinced yet, not one bit. MC on Monday though.


----------



## WyshIknew

Well Greg, despite your reservations I think this is a major step forward. Keep following the advice given to you and it will work out fine for you. Whether this will include your wife I don't know but at least you will be ok.
One thing to think on, you mention that your wife is a very independent person so for her to have come this far is a massive shift for her.
You also mention that you feel she has never had anyone tell her what, or not, to do. I don't think you need to tell her what to do but I don't think there is any harm in perhaps becoming more assertive and lead a bit more.


----------



## Greg40

Acabado said:


> Assuming she's NC I'd spend time and energy to see whether the marriage can be saved. At least for a while.


We have MC tomorrow, so I guess we'll find out.

We talked a bit tonight. I said that since we decied on R, you're not convincing me one bit that you really want it.

I'm allowing a little leeway simply because its only 2 weeks since D day and a lot has taken place. 

I said that I'm not sure if you have any comprehension of what you've done. You were my wife, lover and best friend and you fvcked me. 

I honestly think that she has no idea how to deal with this, R is clearly new territory.

I'm feeling harsh and angry with her.


----------



## Greg40

tdwal said:


> Her fantasy fell apart, she said really horrible things to you, and now she is scared to be alone. I am not sure she has any remorse either. I hope so. Are you able to forget all the conversations between her and the OM that were so painful. At that time you thought you didn't want her back. Now she says she didn't mean them that way?


You know, I'm not sure I can forget them just yet.

I repeated a few of the things she said in them to her tonight. She cried in that painful way where you really know its not crocodile tears.

Contorted face, howling noises. It wasn't good to see.

I'm still not sure I want her back. I think I'm in the angry phase.


----------



## Malaise

Greg40 said:


> We have MC tomorrow, so I guess we'll find out.
> 
> We talked a bit tonight. I said that since we decied on R, you're not convincing me one bit that you really want it.
> 
> I'm allowing a little leeway simply because its only 2 weeks since D day and a lot has taken place.
> 
> *I said that I'm not sure if you have any comprehension of what you've done. You were my wife, lover and best friend and you fvcked me. *
> I honestly think that she has no idea how to deal with this, R is clearly new territory.
> 
> I'm feeling harsh and angry with her.


Greg

At this point this is what she really has to understand in order to move forward. If she doesn't get this, R will be very difficult.

Your anger is justified, she screwed up a good thing. Don't let the anger get in the way of R if she earnestly wants it.


----------



## Greg40

WyshIknew said:


> Well Greg, despite your reservations I think this is a major step forward. Keep following the advice given to you and it will work out fine for you. Whether this will include your wife I don't know but at least you will be ok.
> One thing to think on, you mention that your wife is a very independent person so for her to have come this far is a massive shift for her.
> You also mention that you feel she has never had anyone tell her what, or not, to do. I don't think you need to tell her what to do but I don't think there is any harm in perhaps becoming more assertive and lead a bit more.


I should probably have been clearer on the "no one telling her what to do part". Basically, before me that was the case.

I'm really not that guy and have somewhat told her what I want her to do throughout our relationship. I'm referring to business matters etc which is th bulk of our life. I have more of a business
mind where I feel she is a little nieve in that area.

I know she resents me for this, this was one of those shifts that she has had to make. On the other hand, I let her deal with clients, she is just better there and I recognize that fully.

I do feel that she is making large shifts but, I'm not feeling the "willing" part. I would say "theres going to be monitoring software on your machines" and rather than say "fine, whatever, I don't care about that, lets fix this" - It's an uphill struggle to get her to understand why a BS isn't going to be comfortable with a WW having unfettered internet access. The first thing she considers his her privacy, this is not a good sign to me and I told her so.

Just one of a few flags sadly.


----------



## Greg40

Malaise said:


> Greg
> 
> At this point this is what she really has to understand in order to move forward. If she doesn't get this, R will be very difficult.
> 
> Your anger is justified, she screwed up a good thing. Don't let the anger get in the way of R if she earnestly wants it.


Thanks malaise

I'm already slightly worried about the MC lol.

Its as if I can forsee that the female MC is going to side with her.

I'll think of your advice if I feeling like I'm overheating lol.......malaise says keep cool


----------



## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> Thanks malaise
> 
> I'm already slightly worried about the MC lol.
> 
> Its as if I can forsee that the female MC is going to side with her.
> 
> I'll think of your advice if I feeling like I'm overheating lol.......malaise says keep cool


Keep an open mind oryou will sabotage the relationship yourself. At least try to listen. You will learn something. No doubt, a lack of communication is what damaged your relationship. There are almost always signals sent the husband misreads.


----------



## EleGirl

Greg40 said:


> I should probably have been clearer on the "no one telling her what to do part". Basically, before me that was the case.
> 
> I'm really not that guy and have somewhat told her what I want her to do throughout our relationship. I'm referring to business matters etc which is th bulk of our life. I have more of a business
> mind where I feel she is a little nieve in that area.
> 
> I know she resents me for this, this was one of those shifts that she has had to make. On the other hand, I let her deal with clients, she is just better there and I recognize that fully.
> 
> I do feel that she is making large shifts but, I'm not feeling the "willing" part. I would say "theres going to be monitoring software on your machines" and rather than say "fine, whatever, I don't care about that, lets fix this" - It's an uphill struggle to get her to understand why a BS isn't going to be comfortable with a WW having unfettered internet access. The first thing she considers his her privacy, this is not a good sign to me and I told her so.
> 
> Just one of a few flags sadly.


The scary thing about it is that usually when a WS does not seem to understand the need to complete transparency on the internet, cell phones, etc. it's because there is something they do not want to give up. It's usually the OM/OW or the ability to continue doing things outside the marriage.


----------



## warlock07

Ask her "Can/Should I trust you ?"

Notice her reply. Should tell you a lot if she is ready for reconciliation.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

n t


chapparal said:


> Keep an open mind oryou will sabotage the relationship yourself. At least try to listen. You will learn something. No doubt, a lack of communication is what damaged your relationship. There are almost always signals sent the husband misreads.


But do remember that while the issues in the marriage belong to you both, the affair and the dreadful things she said to you are on her.Be open-minded but do not be afraid to call a spade a spade and stick up for yourself if need be.


----------



## donders

warlock07 said:


> Ask her "Can/Should I trust you ?"
> 
> Notice her reply. Should tell you a lot if she is ready for reconciliation.


For that to work the following needs to apply:

He's gotta be an unbiased expert in lie detection.

She's gotta be a bad liar.

I'm thinking your strategy is flawed.


----------



## Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor said:


> From everything I read, your wife isn't concentrating on OM. Yes she's contacted him. I think it has come to a point where she wants out. Period.
> 
> She doesn't have to go to him. She doesn't have to wait until he returns. She has checked out of the marriage for reasons other than OM. OM just showed her something OUTSIDE the marriage and that is where she is headed.
> 
> If you try a reconciliation, I think you will end up in a marriage where your wife is unhappy and you are distrustful.
> 
> Let her move out and get on with your life.


I stand by this comment earlier. She has told you, even knowing she couldn't go to the OM, that she wanted out.

At a minimum I think she should move out and you can attempt reconciliation living apart. I'm sure the marriage counselor would say that doesn't work, but you know what? It send a powerful message.


----------



## warlock07

donders said:


> For that to work the following needs to apply:
> 
> He's gotta be an unbiased expert in lie detection.
> 
> She's gotta be a bad liar.
> 
> I'm thinking your strategy is flawed.


asking her a question and making her think is a part of the process. 

Greg, would you describe your wife entitled or as a princess?


----------



## donders

warlock07 said:


> asking her a question and making her think is a part of the process.


Maybe so but you specifically said "ask her and then watch her response".

That's all about lie detection.


----------



## Greg40

EleGirl said:


> The scary thing about it is that usually when a WS does not seem to understand the need to complete transparency on the internet, cell phones, etc. it's because there is something they do not want to give up. It's usually the OM/OW or the ability to continue doing things outside the marriage.


She claims its her privacy. There are keyloggers on her devices, so she knows she cant contact through those.

I figured if she was really in contact with OM she would keep quiet about the privacy and get a burner.


----------



## Greg40

warlock07 said:


> Ask her "Can/Should I trust you ?"
> 
> Notice her reply. Should tell you a lot if she is ready for reconciliation.


Will do, seems like a simple enough question that I simply haven't asked (partly because she says that she's not happy irrespective of OM).


----------



## Greg40

Unsure in Seattle said:


> n t
> 
> But do remember that while the issues in the marriage belong to you both, the affair and the dreadful things she said to you are on her.Be open-minded but do not be afraid to call a spade a spade and stick up for yourself if need be.


Yup, 

It was a typical first MC session. Backgrounds and what bought us to this point.

The MC recognized my wife's depression, which sadly is a good thing. I'm sure there are more than one issue contributing to it but, likely part of it is OM withdrawal.


----------



## warlock07

Update Greg? How are things>?


----------



## Greg40

warlock07 said:


> Update Greg? How are things>?


Sort of.

As far as the keylogger reports and phone records show, she has maintained NC. This of course doesn't mean that she's not thinking about OM, she probably is, but it has to be a lot less than 3 weeks ago id hope.

We've been to some MC sessions, 2 joint and an individual each. 

We agreed to look at reconciling. This was decided after we had had 1 joint MC and she had been to her first IC.

I was about to leave for my first IC when I said to her "I'm not really feeling this reconciliation, it's been 3 days and it feels as if you're not here at all - why don't you just move out if you don't want to R".

To put you in the picture, our general behavior over the last few days have been friendly, watching our TV shows and carrying on with business. Then either going to bed early (separate bedrooms) and waking up the next day to do the same again. It's fully ignoring our situation.

She said "But I don't feel as if you want to do it either" to which I replied "I would like to do it but, your actions need to demonstrate that you are genuinely trying". At the time, I was of the opinion that R was a stall tactic for not moving out.

She then said that I was avoiding her, staying out of our office or going out and not telling her where.

I simply said, "Its not pleasant around here right now and we can't sit in the same room re-hashing the same things. If you want to talk, I'm here often enough for you to open communications. But when I am here and you have hours of opportunity, you don't"....."That the most important thing right now is communicating and I'm here ready to communicate, waiting for you to show some initiative". 



Anyway, next day she writes me a long letter, it basically ends with her saying that she thinks that we should separate and try to find our own happiness. She cries all the way through, we then talk about splitting things up.



I feel pretty down the next day and in the evening, we talk some more.

We both cry a bit and she said how confused she is and that this was the most emotional she has ever seen me (basically I never cry). I leave the R door open and say that we should try for a reasonable amount of time. She says that she wrote the letter because I said "why don't you move out". I urge her to stop making snap decisions. 


Next day was joint MC. 

The wife starts by saying that we're in limbo. Which is true and currently neither of us know how to move forward. She's confused and I was trying to test her to see if the R is real. I guess I will have to accept that the R is real being that she was prepared to move out, even though her actions are still not really what I would expect from a remorseful WW. Heck, what am I meant to be expecting here, I've got no idea lol.

The Counselor moves onto my spying. She doesn't understand why I have WW's PC keylogged. I explained to her why. She thinks it comes at a cost. Even my wife understands why. I somewhat snapped at the counselor in a controlled manner. Obviously I don't have a good feeling about the Counselors understanding of EA's at this point. I will proceed with her for the time being that we are seeing her jointly. There is still a benefit there and so far of the 3 counselors I've tried, she is the best overall. I might even change the counselors mind on the importance of Keyloggers post EA .


In two days, my parents are arriving for their 2 week vacation. WW is going to a long stay hotel for two weeks. She is taking her PC and the keylogger will still be sending reports. I'll make some surprise visits. WW being mostly alone (apart from my surprise visits) for two weeks will likely further clear her confusion and that will send this R one way or the other. 

Any advice on how to treat these two weeks? 

Visit everyday for an hour, let her know I'm there, that I'm thinking about her and emotionally supporting her ?
Go dark ?
Communicate only by texts ? Send her pics of the places me and the folks visit etc, let her know what she's missing ?

As a side note, my wife seems to react completely the opposite to how one would expect in these situations, probably down to her confusion and that she is still in OM withdrawl. So any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Wazza

Hi Greg,

Why not ask her what she wants with those two weeks and do it? As a gesture of love, do things her way for a fortnight. Not in a weak way, but in a caring way.

That's what I'd do.


----------



## warlock07

She is playing power games. Right from the moment you confronted her, she is making sure she does not lose the position power in the situation. She is making you ask for R. When in doubt, she is putting you on defensive. Her actions have been very consistent. This is a power struggle for her. How long can you live with this narcissist ? She is trying R more for herself, rather than for you or the marriage.

Like I asked you before, does she have a general sense of entitlement in her real life too ? My guess is that she will will leave you in a limbo for quite a long time with her current approach. She will do the minimum she has to so that you will not call it off.

And she also knows your methods. She will be careful enough to not use anything you might have access to.


----------



## Greg40

Wazza said:


> Hi Greg,
> 
> Why not ask her what she wants with those two weeks and do it? As a gesture of love, do things her way for a fortnight. Not in a weak way, but in a caring way.
> 
> That's what I'd do.


I have to a certain extent. 

I'm really not sure where her head is right now because she sometimes thinks that seperating might be the better choice and then not. 

I'm assuming this is partly due to a slight clearing of fog and questioning whether the feelings she had with OM could be found if she were alone and eventually dating again. Or whether those connections and feelings could be re-ignited in our realtionship (I wasn't the most emotional available husband which overtime caused her to build some resentments and detachment) 

So I made a few suggestions to test the waters. 

For example, I said "would you like me to surprise visit you ?" she said she would like that.

I also asked "would you like to try going out and treating it like a date" she said yes.

So I think for tomorrow (her last night here) i'll take her out. She then leaves on Saturday, so i'll send her a short text or two. Same Sunday. Maybe Monday or Tuesday i'll tell her to meet me somewhere. 

When I surprise visit her another time, i'll take a little gift. But only stay for an hour.

Basically keep things light, sporadic and keep her wondering. Well, thats kinda how I think it might play out lol


----------



## Greg40

warlock07 said:


> She is playing power games. Right from the moment you confronted her, she is making sure she does not lose the position power in the situation. She is making you ask for R. When in doubt, she is putting you on defensive. Her actions have been very consistent. This is a power struggle for her. How long can you live with this narcissist ? She is trying R more for herself, rather than for you or the marriage.
> 
> Like I asked you before, does she have a general sense of entitlement in her real life too ? My guess is that she will will leave you in a limbo for quite a long time with her current approach. She will do the minimum she has to so that you will not call it off.
> 
> And she also knows your methods. She will be careful enough to not use anything you might have access to.


I don't disagree. I don't think she has started R from a position of wanting to. 

It has been only 4 weeks approximately since D-day and for much of that she has probably been missing OM more than thinking about anything else. 

I have kept my eyes open for other methods of communication.

The next few weeks will be interesting. I will open up the contact while she's away initially. And then see what her own actions are.


----------



## WyshIknew

Can't remember if you mention the content of the communications between your WW and the OM.

I wonder if it might be an idea to start your own sexting with her. Not in the same way as the OM as that may cause triggers.

Perhaps start by sending something like "missing you" then missing holding you" take your cue from her responses, maybe escalate "I want to hold you close and run my hands over X"
It might help to remove the last traces of the EA with the OM by having an EA with her.

I was quite surprised that my wife loves it when i sext her, what colour panties is she wearing etc.


----------



## Chaparral

If you are trying to reconcile you should be dating already and romancing her. People together for a while forget this.

Regarding the communication issues, you talk like a man talking to a man instead of a struggling woman. Search for communication between men and women. Men are from Mars , Women are from Venus springs to mind. Men try to think rationally, women think emotionally. That's the breakdown. Neither really understand what the other is trying to say though they understand the words.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I don't like the idea of her being gone 2 weeks at all. Why? Because your parents are there? She's still your wife! Separation is likely to kill the attempt at reconciliation.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Greg40 said:


> The wife starts by saying that we're in limbo. Which is true and currently neither of us know how to move forward. She's confused and I was trying to test her to see if the R is real. I guess I will have to accept that the R is real being that she was prepared to move out, even though her actions are still not really what I would expect from a remorseful WW. Heck, what am I meant to be expecting here, I've got no idea lol.


She is not in any state to make any decisions and she simply doesn’t want to. This is where you can make a HUGE impact on her and attract her to you in a big way.

File for a divorce.

Seems a bit extreme but hear me out. She NEEDS someone who can take control and while you can’t force an R, you can force a D. When you say you are no longer going to wait for her and take control of the situation you will show her that you are a real man that can make decisions and can think clearly and that will draw her to you because she needs someone like that. 

File but keep in mind that you don’t have to go through with the D. The more you push for the D, the more she should try to stop you. It should make her desperate to save the M as the thought of losing everything sinks in. 




> Any advice on how to treat these two weeks?
> 
> Visit everyday for an hour, let her know I'm there, that I'm thinking about her and emotionally supporting her ?
> Go dark ?
> Communicate only by texts ? Send her pics of the places me and the folks visit etc, let her know what she's missing ?


I say NC, make her miss you and wonder what you are doing.


----------



## skip76

ArmyofJuan said:


> She is not in any state to make any decisions and she simply doesn’t want to. This is where you can make a HUGE impact on her and attract her to you in a big way.
> 
> File for a divorce.
> 
> Seems a bit extreme but hear me out. She NEEDS someone who can take control and while you can’t force an R, you can force a D. When you say you are no longer going to wait for her and take control of the situation you will show her that you are a real man that can make decisions and can think clearly and that will draw her to you because she needs someone like that.
> 
> File but keep in mind that you don’t have to go through with the D. The more you push for the D, the more she should try to stop you. It should make her desperate to save the M as the thought of losing everything sinks in.
> 
> 
> 
> I say NC, make her miss you and wonder what you are doing.


i would have to agree, i think she is viewing this as a power struggle and once she wins, all will be back to normal. Hand her divorce papers and tell her, if you really wanted this marriage you would have fought as hard for it as you did the OM. You didn't so i get my answer, i deserve better. it doesn't make much sense in a recovery but i think she is manipulating you. besides all this is crazy anyway, fight crazy with crazy, the things that don;t make sense usually work.


----------



## iheartlife

Greg40: for your counselor--

Policy of Radical Honesty
The Policy of Radical Honesty


----------



## Greg40

WyshIknew said:


> Can't remember if you mention the content of the communications between your WW and the OM.
> 
> I wonder if it might be an idea to start your own sexting with her. Not in the same way as the OM as that may cause triggers.
> 
> Perhaps start by sending something like "missing you" then missing holding you" take your cue from her responses, maybe escalate "I want to hold you close and run my hands over X"
> It might help to remove the last traces of the EA with the OM by having an EA with her.
> 
> I was quite surprised that my wife loves it when i sext her, what colour panties is she wearing etc.


Yes, I thought about adding this to our contact over the next few weeks......providing that she starts to open up a bit.

Yesterday for example, she was going to bed, she seemed in a ok mood and we hadn't discussed much during the day.

So just before she leaves I asked "how are you feeling today"

She says "actually I feel a bit sad and you know, confused about everything"

I mean, seriously LOL. I say to her "so why aren't you talking to me about it ?" 

Obviously we talk some more but as you can see, right now, her feelings whether positive or negative are being internalized and communication supressed.


----------



## Greg40

chapparal said:


> If you are trying to reconcile you should be dating already and romancing her. People together for a while forget this.
> 
> Regarding the communication issues, you talk like a man talking to a man instead of a struggling woman. Search for communication between men and women. Men are from Mars , Women are from Venus springs to mind. Men try to think rationally, women think emotionally. That's the breakdown. Neither really understand what the other is trying to say though they understand the words.


It's probably a good time to romance her. She's confused, the feelings for OM must be subsiding (although she says she still misses the person, not the dishonest relationship) and emotionally her needs are now not being met at all.

It doesn't come naturally becauseit feels like I'm almost rewarding her for her EA. It seems very unfair. And because she is still flip flopping clearly unable to make her mind up on whether should she stay or go. 

After reading No more nice guy....I'm making a very conscious effort to NOT fix things in my typical man way lol. When she is verbalising, I'm being very careful to not offer solutions.

By doing so, I want her to tell me whats going on and not to try and fix "us" with logic and rational. Without my trying to fix, she has to talk more and more.


----------



## warlock07

Why would you romance a woman that cheated on you and currently isn't sufficiently committed at any level to fix the marriage ? That is not only rewarding her behavior but also enabling it.

If you do notice, she isn't exactly a prize to be won.


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## Greg40

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don't like the idea of her being gone 2 weeks at all. Why? Because your parents are there? She's still your wife! Separation is likely to kill the attempt at reconciliation.


They only make the trip every two years. Its a 5000 mile trip and she feels very embarrassed by her actions.

To be honest it would be awkward all round. We're in separate bedrooms etc.

I realize that separation comes with risk, it could also bring benefit.


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## Greg40

ArmyofJuan said:


> She is not in any state to make any decisions and she simply doesn’t want to. This is where you can make a HUGE impact on her and attract her to you in a big way.
> 
> File for a divorce.
> 
> Seems a bit extreme but hear me out. She NEEDS someone who can take control and while you can’t force an R, you can force a D. When you say you are no longer going to wait for her and take control of the situation you will show her that you are a real man that can make decisions and can think clearly and that will draw her to you because she needs someone like that.
> 
> File but keep in mind that you don’t have to go through with the D. The more you push for the D, the more she should try to stop you. It should make her desperate to save the M as the thought of losing everything sinks in.
> 
> 
> 
> I say NC, make her miss you and wonder what you are doing.


I've put D off purely because I'm not a citizen of the US. I'm a permanent resident but I'm not even sure if I will stay here. I need a bit of time to consider D and she does tend to make decisions based on what I do and rather than looking at D as a wake up.

She'll likely think "oh he really wants to go, I guess that what he wants then".

I dunno.


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## Greg40

skip76 said:


> i would have to agree, i think she is viewing this as a power struggle and once she wins, all will be back to normal. Hand her divorce papers and tell her, if you really wanted this marriage you would have fought as hard for it as you did the OM. You didn't so i get my answer, i deserve better. it doesn't make much sense in a recovery but i think she is manipulating you. besides all this is crazy anyway, fight crazy with crazy, the things that don;t make sense usually work.


I've got a couple of weeks to think on it. The answers I need will likely surface during this time.


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## Greg40

iheartlife said:


> Greg40: for your counselor--
> 
> Policy of Radical Honesty
> The Policy of Radical Honesty


Thanks for the link, very helpful


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## Greg40

warlock07 said:


> Why would you romance a woman that cheated on you and currently isn't sufficiently committed at any level to fix the marriage ? That is not only rewarding her behavior but also enabling it.
> 
> If you do notice, she isn't exactly a prize to be won.


Yes, I'm struggling with that myself.

I don't exactly want to be in a country 5000 miles from home on my own and I think we can make our relationship better if both are committed. I will of course try to stay here if we don't R but, it's not an ideal scenario. I would like her to be less confused about R before we start naturally, she is still confused and Dday is still quite recent. 

OTOH, I also don't want to return home to have to start from scratch if I can help it.

Between a rock and a hard place right now.


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## Greg40

tdwal said:


> My wife likes to text me on important things because it gives her time to gather her thoughts before responding, in a face to face she gets intimidated and can't think of what to say.


I understand that.

We've both said things that have been interpreted differently to our intentions. Then the other person acts on it, something takes place which has the other person scratching their head. 

A day later it gets re-evaluated and any confusion somewhat addressed.

With less "everyday" contact, we really only need to communicate about the relationship. If she doesn't initiate much communication, I'll know better where we stand.


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## KathyGriffinFan

Greg, I've read your entire thread and let me understand this correctly: she's aware of a keylogger installed on her various devices?

Isn't that kind of like trying to catch a burglar in the act, then point out where the motion sensors are?


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## KathyGriffinFan

From my chick point of view, she has you doing the work. She messed up, was unhappy, had an EA, and now you're attempting conversation and she's waiting for it. You're doing the work, you're the one worried.

During the times that you mentioned R, how were you acting? Were you aloof and distant and this scared her and finally got her to start thinking that you're moving on and what life will really be like without you or were you trying to start all of the dialogue, etc?

Me thinks the more you do this, the more you play into the hand of pushing her away. 

Just like a manager that has to employ different motivational tactics to get the very most out of his/her employees, you need to do the same. It's not about what's easy for you, or for you to give in to your feelings with being the one that always attempts communication, it's what method brings her closer to being ready for R.


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## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> It's probably a good time to romance her. She's confused, the feelings for OM must be subsiding (although she says she still misses the person, not the dishonest relationship) and emotionally her needs are now not being met at all.
> 
> It doesn't come naturally becauseit feels like I'm almost rewarding her for her EA. It seems very unfair. And because she is still flip flopping clearly unable to make her mind up on whether should she stay or go.
> 
> After reading No more nice guy....I'm making a very conscious effort to NOT fix things in my typical man way lol. When she is verbalising, I'm being very careful to not offer solutions.
> 
> By doing so, I want her to tell me whats going on and not to try and fix "us" with logic and rational. Without my trying to fix, she has to talk more and more.


LOL my wife wants me to listen but not try to fix everything. There are many sources for this idea.

Dating on the other hand is not done as a reward but should never stop. Romance is what binds us to our mates not reonsibilities. Boredom drives us apart no matter how "busy" we are. Dating and socializing with others is critical.


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## Chaparral

Greg40 said:


> I understand that.
> 
> We've both said things that have been interpreted differently to our intentions. Then the other person acts on it, something takes place which has the other person scratching their head.
> 
> A day later it gets re-evaluated and any confusion somewhat addressed.
> 
> *With less "everyday" contact, we really only need to communicate about the relationship. If she doesn't initiate much communication, I'll know better where we stand.*




You are trying to bring your wife back into the marriage. You have to convnce her. For whatever reason, she decided the marriage was done. You have spoiled the EA, now you have to sell the marriage or just move on.


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## mrstj4sho88

You need to ask yourself if you can live with a dishonest person? Can you forgive and forget the EA? Does your wife really no what she needs? You should not have to make her see the marriage should be saved. It does not sound like she cares anymore. Sometimes people can be selfish . IMO you should start living your life like the marriage is over.


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## Greg40

KathyGriffinFan said:


> Greg, I've read your entire thread and let me understand this correctly: she's aware of a keylogger installed on her various devices?
> 
> Isn't that kind of like trying to catch a burglar in the act, then point out where the motion sensors are?


At the time (and we still are apparently) we were in R. So in order to fully enforce NC through her devices the keylogger was installed with her knowledge.

I think thats quite common. Of course, things change and I'm not sure where we are right now. She hasn't asked for the keylogger to be removed and I've found no evidence of a burner yet.


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## Greg40

KathyGriffinFan said:


> From my chick point of view, she has you doing the work. She messed up, was unhappy, had an EA, and now you're attempting conversation and she's waiting for it. You're doing the work, you're the one worried.
> 
> During the times that you mentioned R, how were you acting? Were you aloof and distant and this scared her and finally got her to start thinking that you're moving on and what life will really be like without you or were you trying to start all of the dialogue, etc?
> 
> Me thinks the more you do this, the more you play into the hand of pushing her away.
> 
> Just like a manager that has to employ different motivational tactics to get the very most out of his/her employees, you need to do the same. It's not about what's easy for you, or for you to give in to your feelings with being the one that always attempts communication, it's what method brings her closer to being ready for R.



You're not wrong, I've been trying to kick start this R that we're meant to be having. Show her that we can communicate more effectively, that we can work on the relationship, that I can be more emotionally available, joint MC etc. 

But it really still seems one sided from my point of view. 

She would probably disagree and say "We're doing MC, I have let you install keyloggers, I'm still confused about a future us" etc. And in reality, it's only been 4 weeks since D-Day.

So I either push harder which means I'm chasing someone who I can't see from her own actions if she is truly interested in R. Or I back off completely and with her logic, that will mean I'm not interested, not trying and trying to move on.

Then in her more detached mind-set, she will probably feel that R is not the right course of action because I'm not giving anything.

It feels like chess right now and we're at stalemate.


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## Greg40

chapparal said:


> LOL my wife wants me to listen but not try to fix everything. There are many sources for this idea.
> 
> Dating on the other hand is not done as a reward but should never stop. Romance is what binds us to our mates not reonsibilities. Boredom drives us apart no matter how "busy" we are. Dating and socializing with others is critical.


We don't socialize locally sadly. We never made the required effort to get a group of friends. We really only socialize when friends or family from back home come into town to stay.

Kinda sad really, but we lived in a cocoon and back then, we were pretty fine with it for the most part.

As for the dating part, we did get out together, it diminished a bit over time (she would say a lot) but business dropped since 2008 and I guess I was more of a penny watcher than she was (she's prefers spending). 

I've communicated that I realize that our drop in going out has probably had more of an effect, I can't reverse that but I did commit to going out more. 

Obviously not much point in worrying about that right now but I've communicated it. Just depends if she wants to be there to work on it.


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## Greg40

chapparal said:


> [/B]
> 
> You are trying to bring your wife back into the marriage. You have to convnce her. For whatever reason, she decided the marriage was done. You have spoiled the EA, now you have to sell the marriage or just move on.


I feel like the selling of the marriage is the tricky part when someone has detached so much because they felt emotionally neglected (for over a year she says) and on top of that, got her emotional needs met with an intense online EA.

When I say "this is hard for me because you are so detached"

She says "oh don't say that"

And then later, she just seems completely detached lol.


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## Greg40

mrstj4sho88 said:


> You need to ask yourself if you can live with a dishonest person? Can you forgive and forget the EA? Does your wife really no what she needs? You should not have to make her see the marriage should be saved. It does not sound like she cares anymore. Sometimes people can be selfish . IMO you should start living your life like the marriage is over.


She has been dishonest with this for sure, actually quite immature too. She has already mentioned that she would like some individual IC for herself.

The EA seems to be many peoples way of dealing with their relationship issues. "I'm unhappy, this person is there and makes me happy, my needs are being met" and before you know it, the BS is a much easier person to detach from, it barely gives the BS a chance.

An A seems to accelerate their detachment so much. They look at a possible new life and the opportunities in it. Then look at their current life, hear the BS say how R can be achieved with hard work, that they can forgive and offer second chances and I'm assuming that from some WW's detached perspective, it looks a like a [email protected] of not fun and damn hard work with no guarantee.

Trying to deal with a detached and confused BS is no picnic


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## livinfree

Greg40 said:


> She has been dishonest with this for sure, actually quite immature too. She has already mentioned that she would like some individual IC for herself.
> 
> The EA seems to be many peoples way of dealing with their relationship issues. "I'm unhappy, this person is there and makes me happy, my needs are being met" and before you know it, the BS is a much easier person to detach from, it barely gives the BS a chance.
> 
> An A seems to accelerate their detachment so much. They look at a possible new life and the opportunities in it. Then look at their current life, hear the BS say how R can be achieved with hard work, that they can forgive and offer second chances and I'm assuming that from some WW's detached perspective, it looks a like a [email protected] of not fun and damn hard work with no guarantee.
> 
> Trying to deal with a detached and confused BS is no picnic


Same story here, the A is the light at the end of their tunnel. I feel for you.


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## Greg40

I thought id drop by my old thread and update whats been going on.

R is going very well. While my parents were here on a 2 week vacation (middle two weeks of sept) WW went to a nearby hotel. After about a week (and with no contact still confirmed) WW was coming out of the fog. Her attitude to our marriage had been changing significantly over the first week in the hotel. 

We're still going to MC and as part of R I recommended we make changes to our previous lifestyle to not only assist in its success but because they simply needed to be made.

Key loggers are still installed. She bought a new smart phone recently and handed it over for a spy app to be installed straight away.

We have actively pursued interests away from home and work (days out, museums, matinees etc)

She no longer keeps an active online social network.

We have regulated our sleeping habits (we both go to bed earlier so we can go out in the afternoons)

Her parents also came here for a 5 day vacation. Even though I slightly dreaded the idea, it all went very smoothly and wasn't as awkward as I suspected (more trips out, restaurants etc).

We have been talking about the A less and less, basically things are good in the relationship.

Communication wise, we have learned a few valuable lessons. We didn't talk enough and were both guilty of No More Mr Nice Guys observation of "avoidance of upsetting a partner in favor of a smoother path through life". It doesn't work and now we talk very candidly when something needs discussing.

So, for now, it looks like our path to R is very good. I still think about the EA, not as much obviously, concentrating on R is taking priority. But I'm hopeful


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## tom67

Greg40 said:


> I thought id drop by my old thread and update whats been going on.
> 
> R is going very well. While my parents were here on a 2 week vacation (middle two weeks of sept) WW went to a nearby hotel. After about a week (and with no contact still confirmed) WW was coming out of the fog. Her attitude to our marriage had been changing significantly over the first week in the hotel.
> 
> We're still going to MC and as part of R I recommended we make changes to our previous lifestyle to not only assist in its success but because they simply needed to be made.
> 
> Key loggers are still installed. She bought a new smart phone recently and handed it over for a spy app to be installed straight away.
> 
> We have actively pursued interests away from home and work (days out, museums, matinees etc)
> 
> She no longer keeps an active online social network.
> 
> We have regulated our sleeping habits (we both go to bed earlier so we can go out in the afternoons)
> 
> Her parents also came here for a 5 day vacation. Even though I slightly dreaded the idea, it all went very smoothly and wasn't as awkward as I suspected (more trips out, restaurants etc).
> 
> We have been talking about the A less and less, basically things are good in the relationship.
> 
> Communication wise, we have learned a few valuable lessons. We didn't talk enough and were both guilty of No More Mr Nice Guys observation of "avoidance of upsetting a partner in favor of a smoother path through life". It doesn't work and now we talk very candidly when something needs discussing.
> 
> So, for now, it looks like our path to R is very good. I still think about the EA, not as much obviously, concentrating on R is taking priority. But I'm hopeful


I remember your story when I was a lurker but she turned the corner you followed the advice given and I wish you nothing but the best.


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## Malaise

Good news Greg!

Wish you and W all the best and a successful R!


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## Wazza

Excellent.

As one betrayed spouse to another, it sounds like you are doing all the right things. In my case the depths of intimacy we reached post affair far transcend what we had before. I hope you have the same happy ending. 

If your wife knows you post here, please wish her the best from me too.


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## happyman64

That is a good update Greg40.

A great, solid marriage takes work everyday from both of you.

I am glad she escaped the fog.

Now keep everything in the light......


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## Caribbean Man

Thank goodness you took the advice you got here.
I remember all the arguments , the to and fro.
Best wishes to you and your wife Greg!


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## warlock07

I don't remember all the details but I remember R going on her terms.. She is more in control of the R than you think she has. Humility and remorse are a big part of R. Do you think she shows enough of both ?


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## Mike11

Well Done Greg all the best


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