# Acceptance vs. Expectations



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I have been thinking a lot about acceptance and expectations, and their role in a marriage or relationship.

I know most of the advice on TAM advocates for total acceptance of one's partner, and some posts even have lectured that the secret to a good marriage is having no expectations of your partner.

Is that really true though?

If you marry a woman who is very private and quiet, I understand part of that choice is to accept her for who she is and know that generally speaking she isn't going to be the life of the party, for instance. At the same time, if she is spending money behind your back and/or making decisions privately without including you, isn't it a reasonable expectation for her to stop doing this?

How can you best accept a person for who they are while still preserving reasonable expectations of him/her as a spouse?


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

There should be transparency in marriage. If s person wants their "privacy" so much and is doing things secretly behind their spouse's back, especially things they know, or at least suspect, their spouse wouldn't like, then they really shouldn't be married IMO.

IN your case, just because your wife is very private and quiet, doesn't equate to her doing what she is doing. Those things she is doing effect both of you, not just her.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Acorn said:


> I have been thinking a lot about acceptance and expectations, and their role in a marriage or relationship.
> 
> I know most of the advice on TAM advocates for total acceptance of one's partner, and some posts even have lectured that the secret to a good marriage is having no expectations of your partner.
> 
> ...


Acceptance of personality/character/quirks and acceptance of habits aren't the same to me.

Sneaky behavior (like lying or stealing) is a habit that should not be tolerated in a marriage. It's a learned behavior that can be modified. Being shy and quiet is a personality trait. I don't believe being shy and quiet is learned, it's just how that person is made up. I'm not going to expect a person like that to be extroverted, because IMO that's unreasonable. It is NOT unreasonable to expect your partner to be honest with you though.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Obviously, there is a balance. A cliche I've heard is that women marry expecting their husbands to change and men marry expecting their wives to never change.

Change happens. It's inevitable. Positive change should be welcomed. Negative change should be discouraged. It's reasonable that, if the changes are negative enough (like an expensive drug habit), to stop accepting it. It's unreasonable for minor changes (like gaining 20 lbs) to become deal breakers.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> Acceptance of personality/character/quirks and acceptance of habits aren't the same to me.


Hmmm, I like that, that's a good way to think about it. I was trying to think of exactly how to describe the line and I think this is perfect.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> Change happens. It's inevitable. Positive change should be welcomed. Negative change should be discouraged.


I wonder if this is why many marriages fail. People lose sight of the fact that changes occur, and when their partner points out the negative change, they see instead an attack and/or lack of acceptance, whereas it is a behavior that was the real problem and not the person themselves.


----------



## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I have often quoted "Expectations are Premeditated Resentments" but I have also quoted the serenity prayer:

God grant me the serenity 
to accept the things I cannot change; 
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.​
Sometimes women expect fairy tale, Prince Charming, and Happily ever after. Sometimes men expect their wife to be like porn- turns on with a switch whenever he wants for any position he wants then turns off and asks absolutely nothing of him. Sometimes I can hear the resentment in their posts and I think it is due to their unrealistic impossible expectations. 

The resentment just shoots themselves in the foot, puts their marriage in jeopardy, and makes getting their needs met that much more unlikely.

Hence: "Expectations are premeditated resentments"


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Blonde said:


> I have often quoted "Expectations are Premeditated Resentments" but I have also quoted the serenity prayer:
> 
> God grant me the serenity
> to accept the things I cannot change;
> ...


I hear you and I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I do think there is a line though. For example:

Husband: Honey, we've been so busy lately, our sex life has suffered. I'd like to make it a priority going forward.
Wife: You have unrealistically impossible expectations and are putting the marriage in jeopardy!

I think the two are related. If the wife could accept the premise in the example that the husband genuinely needed more intimacy, maybe the husband would not have the expectations of what that intimacy may look like? I dunno.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I have been thinking a lot about acceptance and expectations, and their role in a marriage or relationship.
> 
> I know most of the advice on TAM advocates for total acceptance of one's partner, and some posts even have lectured that the secret to a good marriage is having no expectations of your partner.
> 
> ...


I think this is a wonderful question! It's one I've thought about a lot at times. Here's what I believe: 

We should have a few (very few) basic expectations, but not over specific things. I'd call these expectations boundaries, and I think they should apply to the things we REQUIRE from people we interact with - regardless of whether they are a romantic partner, a sibling, a parent, or a stranger. 

I won't tolerate dishonesty in my life, for instance. So I "expect" honesty. 

But I think it's crossing a line to have expectations that aren't agreed upon and that aren't related to legitimate boundaries.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Blonde said:


> I have often quoted "Expectations are Premeditated Resentments" but I have also quoted the serenity prayer:
> 
> God grant me the serenity
> to accept the things I cannot change;
> ...


Hmmm...you make it sound like expecting anything from your spouse is a plan in your heart to resent him ahead of time if he don't live up to that expectation, almost like a warning. I don't think that's true. For example I fully expect my H to remain faithful to me because that what he said in his vows. If there is ever infidelity of course I'm going to resent it. Does that mean I premeditated resentments towards him by expecting that? 

Let take it a step further. I have an expectation that he will provide financially always. (he don't have that expectation of me by the way although I have for the whole 8 year we been married) so if my H lose his job I expect him to put 100 percent to find another job and not expect me to be the breadwinner. So if he decides at some point to give up and start sitting home playing video games yes I will truly resent that too. Would that be some type of sinister premeditated action on my part? I don't think so. 

I'm not bashing female breadwinner by the way. It just don't work for me unless he becomes physically unable to work. 

My H have expectations of me too. He expect to bring it in the bedroom and to add that touch to our home to organize and beautify it. I don't think it would be unreasonable if he resent me for not living up to it. 

Again these are our own PERSONAL expectations.

ETA: then there are deal breakers which are very few. In fact I only have 2 and he has one. Anything else we willing to work through or live with.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

It can be easy to confuse Expectations and Boundaries.

Regarding expectations, I follow the philosophy described above by Blondie- "expectations are pre-meditated resentments."

However, I still maintain my boundaries in a relationship. For example, I won't stay in a marriage with the following:
-a spouse who habitually lies
-a spouse who cannot be trusted
-a spouse who does not care for our son

and so forth.

My spouse is his own person. I do have some expectations that are based on his past behavior- historically and currently he is trustworthy, he doesn't lie, he cares a great deal for my son, he cares about working hard for his family, etc.

It's a tricky bit of semantics. In my mind, expectations is based on what is happening now and what happened in the recent past. Expectations are not ideas or rules that I lay out as what I think my husband should do. 

Regarding acceptance, I accept that my guy is his own person. He will do what he chooses to do. At best I can influence his decisions, if he chooses to take my thoughts/wants/needs into consideration. However, I cannot make him do anything. 

I can only determine whether his behaviors are acceptable to me based on my own boundaries.

In your example, I might be fine with having a quiet, introverted spouse. I would not be fine with having a spouse who "spent money behind my back."


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

RoseAglow said:


> It can be easy to confuse Expectations and Boundaries.
> 
> Regarding expectations, I follow the philosophy described above by Blondie- "expectations are pre-meditated resentments."
> 
> ...


Well don't you have an expectation that your boundaries will be observed?


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Hmmm...you make it sound like expecting anything from your spouse is a plan in your heart to resent him ahead of time if he don't live up to that expectation, almost like a warning. I don't think that's true. For example I fully expect my H to remain faithful to me because that what he said in his vows. If there is ever infidelity of course I'm going to resent it. Does that mean I premeditated resentments towards him by expecting that?
> 
> Let take it a step further. I have an expectation that he will provide financially always. (he don't have that expectation of me by the way although I have for the whole 8 year we been married) so if my H lose his job I expect him to put 100 percent to find another job and not expect me to be the breadwinner. So if he decides at some point to give up and start sitting home playing video games yes I will truly resent that too. Would that be some type of sinister premeditated action on my part? I don't think so.
> 
> ...


This post shows why expectations are pre-mediated resentments. You state clearly that if your spouse doesn't meet your expectations, you will resent him.

I am the "breadwinner" but I would be very unhappy if my husband refused to work and instead sat around playing video-games all day, just as you describe.

If I am going to stay based in reality, I would have to accept that my husband was sitting around playing video games and not looking for work.

Based on my boundaries, I would not be partnered with someone who was able to work but not actively looking and instead sitting around playing video games.

I would communicate my unhappiness with the behavior and that it was not acceptable to me. We'd go from there.

It is tricky wording, but I think it is important. If I focus on my boundaries, then I have the power to control my happiness and I act base on my own preferences.

If I focus on Expectations, i put the power on the other person. What I observe over and over again is that when a person is angry that someone else is not meeting their Expectations they easily become the Victim, and often insist on continuing to try to get the other person to meet the Expectation. 

Expectation leads to Victim status, which leads to Resentment.

Boundaries leads to Self-Determination, which leads to empowerment.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

KathyBatesel said:


> I think this is a wonderful question! It's one I've thought about a lot at times. Here's what I believe:
> 
> We should have a few (very few) basic expectations, but not over specific things. I'd call these expectations boundaries, and I think they should apply to the things we REQUIRE from people we interact with - regardless of whether they are a romantic partner, a sibling, a parent, or a stranger.
> 
> ...


That's interesting, I wonder if this could be applied to situations where there was no explicit agreement or if a line was crossed.

Hypothetically:

- I accept that you have been using pornography excessively in our relationship.
- My boundary states that I will not be in a relationship where my spouse has an unreasonably need or addiction for porn.
- If you want me in this relationship, I expect you to give up pornography.

It all seems like such a fine line!


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Well don't you have an expectation that your boundaries will be observed?


This sounds crazy, but I really don't have an expectation that my boundaries will be observed.

It isn't anyone's job to observe my boundaries. It is my job simply to enforce them. My boundaries are my personal rules,morals, etc that help me maintain my happiness and safety.

I have communicated my boundaries to my husband, as best I can, as to what I want and am comfortable with in a relationship. I let him know what I like and don't like, what my needs are, and what my deal breakers are.

However, I don't expect him to observe them. They are just me communicating to him the rules of the game. If he crosses them, it is up to me to take action, whatever action is appropriate at the time.

He has expressed his boundaries to me, his rules of the game. If I cross them, it is up to him to take action. 

We know the rules and we operate within them, by choice. Sometimes they change, and we do our best to communicate when something changes. 

Expectation is focused on the other person. It says "You must do or be something for me!" 

Boundaries are focused on the self. It says, "I am happy to be in a relationship with you as long as I am not lied to,not cheated on/treated respectfully, emotionally supported, etc."


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Acorn said:


> That's interesting, I wonder if this could be applied to situations where there was no explicit agreement or if a line was crossed.
> 
> Hypothetically:
> 
> ...


For me, it would look more like this: 

I have a boundary that people will treat me with respect and care. If they don't, I decide upon the consequences. Porn wouldn't be a boundary for me, but if their use of porn interfered with their ability to respect and care for me, I would have a valid complaint. 

If I say that an unreasonable need for porn is a boundary, I've just stepped across a line into controlling other people's behavior. This won't help me in relationships.

I'll give another example that's a real one from my life right now. My husband's daughter will be 18 in a few months and is abusing drugs on a near daily basis. I have also come to recognize when she's lying - anytime her lips are moving. While I love her and she has MANY traits that I adore, I don't trust her and have mostly stopped interacting with her because one of my boundaries really is that I will participate with people who don't demonstrate respect and care for me. 

My husband is heartbroken that I don't bother to give her the time of day or even talk to her anymore except at a very superficial level. I no longer drive her to work or pick her up, I do not buy things for her or offer her money. I lock up some of my belongings. He would like to expect a happy family. 

However, my behavior isn't violating his boundaries. If he tried to force me to continue that relationship with her, I would feel invalidated and that would certainly violate mine. I would feel controlled. My boundary there is that I will not participate with people who don't treat me as worthy.

There can be a lot of things that violate boundaries, but by focusing on just a few basic boundaries, I don't have to micromanage other people.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Acorn said:


> That's interesting, I wonder if this could be applied to situations where there was no explicit agreement or if a line was crossed.
> 
> Hypothetically:
> 
> ...


It is a just small, but important, change in perspective.

The first two bullets are great, IMO, but I would switch "If you want me in this relationship, I expect you to give up pornography" to "I will not stay in this relationship as long as you are using porn."

Expectations ask the other person to do something: "I want you to do give up porn" or "I expect you to give up porn." 

Boundaries is saying that YOU will do something: "I will not stay if you continue to use porn."


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

RoseAglow said:


> This sounds crazy, but I really don't have an expectation that my boundaries will be observed.
> 
> It isn't anyone's job to observe my boundaries. It is my job simply to enforce them. My boundaries are my personal rules,morals, etc that help me maintain my happiness and safety.


Interesting. I think this makes sense for most people, but I think a spouse has signed on for the job of observing my boundaries. 

I agree it is my job to enforce them, but I don't see how expecting my wife to observe them is setting up for resentment. Going back to the expectation/boundary of your husband working, if he suddenly stops, there will be resentment (in the form of anger and disappointment over their action) regardless. It may not be the long, drawn out resentment that one things about, but it is still there.


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Acceptance is rooted in how you were raised.

Expectations are rooted in how you were raised.

Since you and you spouse were raised differently in different families...there-in lies the issue most of the time.

I think its the expectations that cause the most harm and I think acceptance drags things out.

Hopefully a couple learns to mend the childhood differences into a similar acceptance and expectation arrangement.

I can trace ALL of my wife and my own "impasses" on how we were raised as kids and the environment we lived in and family dynamics.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Interesting. I think this makes sense for most people, but I think a spouse has signed on for the job of observing my boundaries.
> 
> I agree it is my job to enforce them, but I don't see how expecting my wife to observe them is setting up for resentment. Going back to the expectation/boundary of your husband working, if he suddenly stops, there will be resentment (in the form of anger and disappointment over their action) regardless. It may not be the long, drawn out resentment that one things about, but it is still there.


My opinion.... If your boundaries are simply YOUR guidelines of what you will and won't accept, then nobody has to sign on to observe them. YOU manage it, not them. 

Now you probably made her your wife because not violating your boundaries was something you liked about her. But if your "boundaries" require her to behave in ways YOU think are appropriate but she doesn't want to comply with, then you're getting into expectations that harm a relationship. 

To use that work example: If the boundary is "My partner will provide for me financially," then he has the freedom to quit working if he wins a lotto jackpot or inherits money or retires early. But if the expectation is "My partner will work at a job" it's stripping him of freedom to choose his own priorities. 

Resentments can come from expectations not being met AND from violated boundaries, but expectations are MUCH more likely to fail and cause problems.


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Let's face it, marriage is just plain old hard work sometimes. Having two people be able to mesh long term with what each other want, need, expect and are willing to accept just ain't easy !


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> I'll give another example that's a real one from my life right now. My husband's daughter will be 18 in a few months and is abusing drugs on a near daily basis. I have also come to recognize when she's lying - anytime her lips are moving. While I love her and she has MANY traits that I adore, I don't trust her and have mostly stopped interacting with her because one of my boundaries really is that I will participate with people who don't demonstrate respect and care for me.
> 
> My husband is heartbroken that I don't bother to give her the time of day or even talk to her anymore except at a very superficial level. I no longer drive her to work or pick her up, I do not buy things for her or offer her money. I lock up some of my belongings. He would like to expect a happy family.
> 
> ...


I am sorry to hear about your DH's daughter. Addiction sucks. Just about everything I've learned regarding boundaries came from my experience with an addicted partner. I am glad that your DH is respecting your boundaries!


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

RoseAglow said:


> This sounds crazy, but I really don't have an expectation that my boundaries will be observed.
> 
> It isn't anyone's job to observe my boundaries. It is my job simply to enforce them. My boundaries are my personal rules,morals, etc that help me maintain my happiness and safety.
> 
> ...


Well I can see your point about boundaries but I DO expect my H to observe the boundaries we have discussed. I really do. And if he were to cheat on me I WOULD be a victim of his infidelity. I would be devastated and that is MY reality. And just "saying" I don't expect him to observe them in order not to be a victim doesn't make it true. That a lie I would be telling myself. But if it happen that don't mean I have to maintain a victim mentality. I would have to do what I need to do to heal and move on whether it either with or without him.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Well I can see your point about boundaries but I DO expect my H to observe the boundaries we have discussed. I really do. And if he were to cheat on me I WOULD be a victim of his infidelity. I would be devastated and that is MY reality. And just "saying" I don't expect him to observe them in order not to be a victim doesn't make it true. That a lie I would be telling myself. But if it happen that don't mean I have to maintain a victim mentality. I would have to do what I need to do to heal and move on whether it either with or without him.


I am not trying to be snarky here- you have the right and ability to do what you want. If you want to have expectations, you are free to do so. 

Hopefully neither one of us experiences infidelity in our marriages, but if we did, I know I also would be hurt and devastated, just as you say you would be if it happened. Neither my boundaries nor your expectations would prevent us each from feeling terrible pain. 

It has been my experience that claiming victim status is very rarely helpful- for me, it's only been helpful when it comes to legal/insurance type matters. 

Years ago, when my then long-term SO/fiance fell into his addiction, I tried "He hasn't met my expectations and I have to go", but that had my actions very focused on what my addicted loved one was doing. I based my decisions on his actions, which varied incredibly depending on where he was in his addiction/recovery/relapse cycle. I was angry and would lash out, "You did this to me!" While it is true that he did do a bunch of crap stuff to me while he was in active addiction, it did not help me at all to think of it that way. It just kept me stuck, and in reality, he just did what all active addicts do. 

I found it faster/easier to move on when saying and believing, "I cannot live with his behaviors, they are not in line with what I want for myself/with my boundaries". When I got into this line of thinking, I was focused on what I wanted as opposed to what he was doing. I rarely wavered. I began moving on and re-building. I went from being victimized to being a survivor.

In my eyes, it is not just semantics. In no way am I trying to suggest that focusing on boundaries is meant to be a way of lying to oneself about one's reality; in fact, it is very difficult to lie to oneself if one is focused on boundaries. Moving from a mindset based on expectations to a focus on boundaries was literally life-changing for me, my entire life has improved with this change in thinking. It's why I nearly always jump in on these type of threads.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

RoseAglow said:


> I* am not trying to be snarky here-* you have the right and ability to do what you want. If you want to have expectations, you are free to do so.
> 
> Hopefully neither one of us experiences infidelity in our marriages, but if we did, I know I also would be hurt and devastated, just as you say you would be if it happened. Neither my boundaries nor your expectations would prevent us each from feeling terrible pain.
> 
> ...


Oh, no I don't look at you as being snarky at all. Actually I'm trying to see your point of view since I know that -- ok -- I tend to be naive, and I honestly have to say that my maturity level may not be quite up to my chron age (28). So I am always trying to know and understand about relationships -- it is my main reason for being on TAM now since my original reason (wanting to conceive) is now taken care of (due in Sept). 

But are you say that by focus on bounaries instead of excpectations you were able to move on, whereas you were not when you were focus on expectation? So how do you deal with expectation that may not have to do with boundaries? Let's say, it's my Anniversary and I "expect" flowers or a gift or whatever and don't get one. that does not have to do with boundaries at all. I'm sure although most wife would be ticked off at no anniversary gift, it would not lead to any type of dealbreaker or ultimatum. But there could be resentment, though not premeditated, because you just did not anticipate your spouse would not acknowledge your anniverary. (by the way that would never bother me. I don't approach any type of gift giving occasion that way, if you want to give a gift, give it with no strings).


----------



## Oldrandwisr (Jun 22, 2013)

Acceptance is dynamic in a relationship.

Reasonable couples discuss what they will accept and expect prior to marriage. After marriage, 5 yrs, 20 yrs and on, we may accept each other's habits and value individuality quirks as time goes on and situations change such as family, finances, residence.

Expectations are quite simple: Be respectful and honest ALWAYS with each other. Face to face, or when apart.

If something you do, say, or your behavior would upset your SO if they stood beside you, you create a new problem that needs to be hashed out.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Oldrandwisr said*:* Reasonable couples discuss what they will accept and expect prior to marriage*. After marriage, 5 yrs, 20 yrs and on, we may accept each other's habits and value individuality quirks as time goes on and situations change such as family, finances, residence.


:iagree:

For me...I tend to look at *"expectations"* as something I need emotionally from a man -with enough wisdom to see /know they will struggle to deliver - that it would be a train wreck.... so therefore I would classify them as "*deal breakers*" in an opposite sex partner..... we should all know what ours IS (and people do have different ones)... and weed this out while dating... my list is pretty long... I would say I do have high expectations ....in some areas more than others....

Examples...

*1.* I would not be with a man who didn't believe in Transparency.... I don't expect perfection ...but I do expect the TRUTH...even if it hurts...BE REAL / be TRUE ...I won't put you in the doghouse... we'll talk it out.....

*2.* I would not marry a work a holic... I need affection, Time & expression -this makes for what I see as a thriving happy union......

*3*. I would not be with a wreckless spender so we couldn't achieve our planned dreams... 
*4.* Too religious - wouldn't be working....on the other end of the spectrum...a lack of morals -also wouldn't be working...
*5.* Addictions that suck the lifeblood out of a relationship...Never... .
*6*. I expect my husband to enjoy sex, and be faithful to me and care about my needs, my love languages as I will do the same for him. 

Now "*Acceptance"* is when the person you are with ...they pretty much meet your "expectation" list...if they was given the test of time to see if compatibility was there....

Yet still none of us are PERFECT... we may not personally love every little thing about them...but it's still THEM...

For example.... 

Sometimes I wish my husband talked a little more - he is naturally introverted...he will never be the Life of the party... but maybe in our own home with the kids..
Sometimes I wish he'd ______ or he'd ________ but these things are very small... .. it's not something that will cause resentment in me when I look at the BIG PICTURE of what we share together...what is right in front of me.... 

Many times these little quirks can even be "endearing"...some are just plain annoying...we should talk about that to lesson them if it really bothers us... opposite personality types often attract so the yin & the yang can do it's magic... 



> *committed4ever said*: by the way that would never bother me. I don't approach any type of gift giving occasion that way, if you want to give a gift, give it with no strings


 I am the same way, we don't even buy each other gifts...it's not on our expectation list at all....but we both would want some special TIME and attention on those special days... Our attitude would go something like this..."screw the card & flowers... just screw ME honey!"


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

RoseAglow said:


> This sounds crazy, but I really don't have an expectation that my boundaries will be observed.
> 
> It isn't anyone's job to observe my boundaries. It is my job simply to enforce them. My boundaries are my personal rules,morals, etc that help me maintain my happiness and safety.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::smthumbup: Your eloquence in explaining boundaries and expectation are admirable. Very enlightening! Thank you Mrs. Rose.


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I have been thinking a lot about acceptance and expectations, and their role in a marriage or relationship.
> 
> I know most of the advice on TAM advocates for total acceptance of one's partner, and some posts even have lectured that the secret to a good marriage is having no expectations of your partner.
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with having expectations in any relationship, including marriage. I expect to be treated with respect which includes honesty in all of my relationships or there is no relationship with me. Your example of spending money behind your back violates my expectation of both respect & honesty.

I would never accept that.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Oh, no I don't look at you as being snarky at all. Actually I'm trying to see your point of view since I know that -- ok -- I tend to be naive, and I honestly have to say that my maturity level may not be quite up to my chron age (28). So I am always trying to know and understand about relationships -- it is my main reason for being on TAM now since my original reason (wanting to conceive) is now taken care of (due in Sept).


Hey, you are a good half decade ahead of where I was re: maturity. I was 33 when I got my crash lesson in boundaries/expectations, my head wasn't anywhere near these things when I was in my 20s. I think you're doing great if you are thinking of this stuff at 28!

Also- wow, congrats on being a Mom-in-Progress. I hope this last trimester is smooth for you! Very exciting!



> But are you say that by focus on bounaries instead of excpectations you were able to move on, whereas you were not when you were focus on expectation? So how do you deal with expectation that may not have to do with boundaries? Let's say, it's my Anniversary and I "expect" flowers or a gift or whatever and don't get one. that does not have to do with boundaries at all. I'm sure although most wife would be ticked off at no anniversary gift, it would not lead to any type of dealbreaker or ultimatum. But there could be resentment, though not premeditated, because you just did not anticipate your spouse would not acknowledge your anniverary. (by the way that would never bother me. I don't approach any type of gift giving occasion that way, if you want to give a gift, give it with no strings).


So, regarding gifts. 

If a wife would like a gift, I believe it is her responsibility to communicate that clearly to her husband.

In your example, if the wife did not let her husband know that she wanted a gift or flowers, etc., than her unhappiness that she did not receive anything is on her. It would be blame-shifting to assign her unhappiness to her husband, who can't fulfill a wish if he doesn't know it exists. It would be a great example of how an unvoiced expectation can set up a resentment. 

(I am throwing this in because just about all of the time, when I get angry at my DH, I can trace it back to me having an unvoiced expectation. Usually it's about housework and/or childcare...but I digress....)

Let's say that the wife did communicate to her husband that she wanted flowers and a nice gift, like perfume, to celebrate their anniversary. I am a fan of the Marriage Builders philosophy, so I would use their principles to negotiate an Anniversary Celebration that both my DH and I are happy about. 

In this scenario, DH and I work out our plan together: Our son is going to his Grandmom's overnight; I am getting new Chanel perfume and a dozen red roses; we are going to dinner at his favorite restaurant, reservations are confirmed. We have Fun Adult time planned for the arrival back home. It's on, yay!

If my DH then blew off the plans and didn't show up- and there was no reasonable explanation for or prior communication about the changes- then I would have some big issues with how it went down. 

I would be certain to communicate my feelings and perspective on his behavior:

"I am hurt, angry, and disappointed that you didn't keep our plans.

"I was really looking forward to having a fabulous, romantic night to celebrate our anniversary. I am really bummed out that you were a no-show. I feel very disrespected. This has broken my trust in you, and I am not feeling much love towards you at the moment. I am heading out for a while." I'd want to get away from the situation for a while to calm down.

It's true that by ditching our plans without a reason/prior notice, he broke my expectation that he would keep our plans; however, it is not helpful for me to think about it this way. My past experience was that when I focused on what the other person "did to me", this also lead to "what a d!ck hole! I can't believe him!" and me simmering for a while on what just a jerk/SOB etc that person is and how I was wronged. To me, this is getting stuck. TAM is filled with posts describing people who are stuck right here, angry at the treatment they have received, sometimes they've been receiving it for years! 

The truth is, DH is a grown man who is free to do what he wants. He has the right to change his mind. Just because I communicate what I want, he has no obligation to fulfill my wishes. He gets to decide how he wants to act. He made a decision to do something different than what we had agreed upon.

It is much more helpful for to focus on the behaviors he showed me, and for me to decide how I want to handle it:

"My husband chose to break our plans without telling me. He isn't sick, there were no family emergencies, there was no prior indication that something was up. Where do I go from here?"


Is this the first time? Did he sincerely apologize, explain where he was, and offer to make it up to me tomorrow night instead, and do the footwork to make it happen? OK, maybe we begin moving forward and damage is easily repaired.

Is this the first time, but there is no apology, no offer to make it up to me, no accounting for his time, and no gifts? OK, this is very weird. I am going to start to snoop. 

(BTW, you can very clearly see on the Infidelity threads where BS's are being gas-lit, when they can FEEL that something is wrong but they don't know what and their cheating spouses certainly aren't coming clean. 

The BSs expect that their spouses are being truthful, it doesn't even cross their mind that they are lying, cheating.

I was that person- not infidelity, but I knew something was off with my fiance. I didn't know what, but I was able to think of several possible explanations: Maybe he was depressed? He was going to a doctor who gave him an anti-depressant, but he was still just acting weird. He might be stressed, because he was having a hard time at his new job. He was going to undergo a surgery, maybe he was worried and just didn't want to let me know? Heck, maybe just being engaged was stressing him out! OMG look at all the stuff he has going on! No wonder he is a little off!

Because I had reasonable explanations in my mind, I didn't think to actively seek out the answer. I never in a million years thought of either cheating or drug use. I will never know how long he was actually using; I am incredibly lucky to have gotten out mostly unscathed. I shudder to think of what kinds of risks I was unknowing exposed to for God only knows how long.

My lesson learned- when something is off in my relationship, I will always verify. This is one of my strongest, most heart-felt boundaries- I will never knowingly put myself at that level of risk again, and I will always protect myself against it. My DH's first marriage ended from addiction and infidelity as well, so he is completely on-board with that philosophy.)


Is this a repeated instance? Here is where things get complicated...

Whatever the decision might be, I would be focused on my behavior, my reaction, and this would keep me moving forward. 

So! I hope you don't mind the digressions. This was a fun way to end a working afternoon and it has made feel very grateful for my DH, who chooses to act in very thoughtful, caring ways. He is such a good guy! Maybe I'll cook him a steak tonight just because.


----------



## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Acorn said:


> I hear you and I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
> 
> I do think there is a line though. For example:
> 
> Husband: Honey, we've been so busy lately, our sex life has suffered. I'd like to make it a priority going forward.


Wife: 
If your definition of sex is wham bam- 5 minutes then here's a bottle of lotion. Take care of it.

Although sexual intimacy is an entitlement of marriage, I didn't marry to be a wet place to put it. I married for companionship, friendship, mutual support, and love. If you want intimacy where I desire you, then you will need to figure out ways to alleviate the "busy" and decompress my stress level because when I am stressed, sex is the furthest thing from my mind.

My husband knows this and helps out in the kitchen, helps out with the children, invites me to watch a movie or take a walk and rubs my tired sore feet.​
I never felt threatened by my husband's porn use nor told him to quit, but I can tell you that he was not inclined to invest in our relationship as above when he was using porn. The one dimensional was much quicker and easier. He doesn't use anymore.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

RoseAglow said:


> Hey, you are a good half decade ahead of where I was re: maturity. I was 33 when I got my crash lesson in boundaries/expectations, my head wasn't anywhere near these things when I was in my 20s. I think you're doing great if you are thinking of this stuff at 28!
> 
> Also- wow, congrats on being a Mom-in-Progress. I hope this last trimester is smooth for you! Very exciting!
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::iagree:

Mrs. Rose, the depth of your thoughtfulness is amazing. I hope one day you'll see it fit to use your insight to a good cause, by writing a book about your theory in regards to "expectations vs boundaries".

I think you're just inches away from devising a general set of behavioral theories which could be applied to marriage.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

RoseAglow said:


> Hey, you are a good half decade ahead of where I was re: maturity. I was 33 when I got my crash lesson in boundaries/expectations, my head wasn't anywhere near these things when I was in my 20s. I think you're doing great if you are thinking of this stuff at 28!
> 
> Also- wow, congrats on being a Mom-in-Progress. I hope this last trimester is smooth for you! Very exciting!
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to give such a detail response! I'm at work now on a beautiful Saturday on a help desk call line and nobody is calling. So I have taken the time to read and ponder. At first I said about the whole planning anniversary thing, "how unromantic, you know the gift you know where you are going there is no surprise." But after thinking about it for a moment, I can see where this could actually work even with a passionate person like me who also love surprises. But one of the thing I love about my H is when he decide that we need some time away and he plan a short get-a-way. The time leading up to the getaway my excitement build and part of that excitement is being so please that he want to spend some "us only" time together (we both have huge close-knit families that really do take up a lot of our time, though we are grateful. Our house, because it just the two of us and its big with a big yard, is the family get together place of choice). 

So while I was ready to reject it, this is pretty much what we did our last anniversary. And he did ask me what I wanted for a gift. i really didn't want anything so I ask him to give me something from his heart, and he deliver.

Sooooo ... said all that to say maybe I have tendency to rush to jugment and need to think things through a bit ... especially in our marital relationship.

Thanks again!


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> :smthumbup::iagree:
> 
> Mrs. Rose, the depth of your thoughtfulness is amazing. I hope one day you'll see it fit to use your insight to a good cause, by writing a book about your theory in regards to "expectations vs boundaries".
> 
> I think you're just inches away from devising a general set of behavioral theories which could be applied to marriage.


Wow, john_lord, that is such a nice compliment! Thank you! I got myself into some very "teachable moments" and thankfully had great teachers who helped me out along the way.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Thank you for taking the time to give such a detail response! I'm at work now on a beautiful Saturday on a help desk call line and nobody is calling. So I have taken the time to read and ponder. At first I said about the whole planning anniversary thing, "how unromantic, you know the gift you know where you are going there is no surprise." But after thinking about it for a moment, I can see where this could actually work even with a passionate person like me who also love surprises. But one of the thing I love about my H is when he decide that we need some time away and he plan a short get-a-way. The time leading up to the getaway my excitement build and part of that excitement is being so please that he want to spend some "us only" time together (we both have huge close-knit families that really do take up a lot of our time, though we are grateful. Our house, because it just the two of us and its big with a big yard, is the family get together place of choice).
> 
> So while I was ready to reject it, this is pretty much what we did our last anniversary. And he did ask me what I wanted for a gift. i really didn't want anything so I ask him to give me something from his heart, and he deliver.
> 
> ...


Aw, your DH sounds very sweet! I am totally envious of your Get-Away weekends, that sounds wonderful! I am thrilled just to get a Child-Free night on occasion. 

I am glad you enjoyed my post. The detailed description of plans is what works for me and my DH, it helps both of us to meet each other's wishes successfully. YMMV.


----------



## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

This is my opinion on expectations. You may not can expect your spouse to change themselves, but you do expect them to change their behavior if it is harmful to your marriage in any way. From what I read in all the forums, the biggest problem is people just not being honest with each other. Sometimes people are oblivious that a problem even exists, while the other spouse is fuming over it. I say you accept the person for who they are, but you also communicate with your spouse openly when their behavior effects your relationship.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> At the same time, if she is spending money behind your back and/or making decisions privately without including you, isn't it a reasonable expectation for her to stop doing this?


Yes
The making private decisions without you and spending money behind your back is disrespectful and is an exclusion that can very easily be construed as rejection. As you know rejection is a relationship killer


What your spouse is doing is a choice that is NOT an innate personality trait and is something that I would expect them to change or I would make some adjustments for myself.

Rose Aglow gave a good summary and is reprinted below




> By *Rose Aglow*
> Expectations ask the other person to do something: "I want you to do give up porn" or "I expect you to give up porn."
> 
> Boundaries is saying that YOU will do something: "I will not stay if you continue to use porn."


The action to leave (not stay) is certainly one option that maybe best but depending on the expection and severity of violation of the expectation perhaps another action or adjustment would be best for you.



Blunt


----------

