# 3 weeks in to reconciliation



## Orange_Pekoe

Hi everyone,

My husband and I reconciled after 11 months of separation. I gave him papers to sign to finalize our divorce, and he said he didn't want to lose me and our daughter. We talked about many of our issues, came to some new "ground rules" and are living together now.

Why we separated: I lived with my husband and his family for 3 years in the same house. Obviously many, many problems due to the living arrangement. Husband always picked his family's side over me, resulting in a lot of verbal/emotional abuse from all of them. So I left and didn't look back. Still loved my husband and when he asked me to come back, I told him we'd only be together if we lived alone...never again with his family.

Anyway...it's 3 weeks in to our reconciliation. He's on his best behaviour, treats me and our daughter VERY respectfully and with a lot of love. When we have issues, we talk through them calmly and come to a resolution. This is new...he always used to explode and get angry. It will take a lot of time to see if this new method of conflict-resolution in our marriage lasts.

The problem is, I have some sort of post-traumatic stress from the time of living with his family. I re-live hurtful scenarios in my head. They were inconsiderate and disrespectful and I don't want to ever see them again...but I know that they are the other half of my daughter's family and it's only a matter of time before I do. How do I get past the hurt and hate that I feel? They will never apologize, nor will they admit that they did anything wrong. I need to find a way to be happy and peaceful and healthy and I can't do that if I'm constantly thinking about how they mistreated me. They shaped who I am today and I don't like myself.


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## Orange_Pekoe

I think-up situations that haven't come to exist. Then I worry.
I also remember situations in the past that were very intense and hurtful. Then I brood.

Does anyone else do this?!

How do I stop?

And this is not just something that I started doing after living with my in laws. I remember doing this throughout my adolescence, because my parents would fight and I was walking on eggshells most of the time.


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## Mr.Fisty

Keep your distance is your only recourse. Let your husband and your daughter visit, but keep your daughter's visit very limited as well. You have to keep exposure of his family away from your daughter as much as possible.

Good job so far for navigating your relationship. You have learned more relational skills than your husband. Teaching him will take a while to sink in, and when he back slides, you hold your ground and detach.

You will find out how his family react and if they turn their backs on him will he go running back to them. He has to know the consequences ahead of time if he leaves you again, then the marriage is over.

Some level of independence is healthy,so find what makes you happy as an individual without your husband or daughter.

Eventually, he does need to understand how his mother's way of nurturing him affects him as an adult. With understanding, he will learn to deal with his issues.

You are back in the honeymoon phase somewhat again. Dopamine, which a lot is release in this state, is known as a motivational neurotransmitter and hormone. He is getting a lot of that at the moment and that is probably why he is on his best behavior. For new behavior and habits to sink in, it will take a lot of repetition until talking, learning to express feelings and emotions become a norm.

Usually why most slip into the former selves is because they lack reinforcement or motivation to keep trying.

You, on the other hand still need to healthily deal with your past and learn not to let an unknown future negatively affect you. You still need to find happiness and independence. You fear that he will revert and what you worked on will be lost. You should be focused on if he leaves you and his family engulfs him again, then you know that you will be better off without him.

Sad thing is, that you have grown a lot and that was when you were not in a relationship with your husband. He kept you in the cycle of drama and high levels of emotional instability.

So now, you need to keep improving, and as well as being the leader of the family.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Thanks Mr. Fisty. I am the leader of our family at the moment and I intend on being the leader until my husband proves that he can take care of us. I have no desire to control him, only to eventually get to a place where we are truly partners.

I am trying to keep my daughter's visits with his family limited. She goes there once a week. 

I am afraid that I have some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder. Pretty convinced I've developed moderate ADD over the past year as a side-effect of our separation...I think it's something I always had but it only became noticeable to me the past year. (I haven't seen the doctor yet.) 

Right now, he's the happy one and I'm not happy or unhappy. I'm enjoying the time he spends with us and inside, I feel like an 80 year old woman, bent over with the trials of life. It sounds melodramatic but that's the best way I can describe how I feel inside. Psychologically, I am not well...else why would I re-live past experiences or create imaginary future scenarios in my head? And worry so much?


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## Orange_Pekoe

It is very true that we are back in the "Honeymoon" phase, because he is relieved to have me and our daughter back in his daily life. I am happy to have him back as well. I'm focusing on keeping the lines of communication open and having productive conflict-resolution. Two things we lacked in the past.

But most importantly - I stress to him that I value honesty above all else. I don't trust him and if he lies or deceives me again, I don't think I could get past it.


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## Mr.Fisty

Your not there yet, and it will be draining on you. Have you kept up with your exercise and healthier lifestyle? It has a lot of beneficial neurological effects on the brain.

Also, have you ever heard the art of being mindful? It is a helpful mental exercise to keep your thoughts in the here and now.

Find an activity that you can lose yourself in.

Do not forget, your husband is a trigger as well, and it takes time to stop associating him with pain. Unfortunately, it is a side effect of wanting to work things out with him, and plus the risks involved as well.

Pain is one of the most powerful learning tools that we have. Just because things are going well now, it simply does not mean your view of him will change instantly. You learn that he can cause you a lot of pain, so you will be wary around him.

You simply do not trust him yet, nor has he proven to you that he can be trusted.

He also represents his family, so seeing him will be a constant reminder for a while of what his and his family did to you mentally.

Unless you develop amnesia, you are going to trigger a lot.

Things like setting boundaries, having rules in place, and learning to detach from the situation if the situation is adversely affecting you.

Unfortunately, abuse will change the physiology of the brain the longer one is exposed. Luckily our brains are plastic enough to undo some of that change or change to learn to deal with the trauma. But, it is a slow process.

You did not become a dysfunctional person over night, it took prolong exposure to your husband's family to slowly change you. So, do not be hard on yourself.


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## scatty

I have been keeping up with your story, and I feel for you. Only time will tell if this will work out. My advice would be to re-evaluate the marriage every 3-6 months until you feel secure again. I hope your daughter is not being fed hate from your husband's family. Good luck, but stay viligent.


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## Mr.Fisty

Orange_Pekoe said:


> I think-up situations that haven't come to exist. Then I worry.
> I also remember situations in the past that were very intense and hurtful. Then I brood.
> 
> Does anyone else do this?!
> 
> How do I stop?
> 
> And this is not just something that I started doing after living with my in laws. I remember doing this throughout my adolescence, because my parents would fight and I was walking on eggshells most of the time.



Hmm, it explains why you stayed a long time in a toxic environment. AS children, we lack the capacity to deal with our emotions, so we develop coping mechanisms to the best of our abilities.

An example is neglect. Achild may learn to erect a wall to keep from feeling pain when they have a need to form an attachment with their parents. Since they cannot view the xomplexity of the situation, a child may simply learn to wall off their emotions.

Again, seeking help and seeing a therapist will help you see the picture more clearly and help with unraveling past emotions, get some understanding how you are the person you are, and with knowledge and tools, learn to correct and deal with your life in a healthier manner.

As a child, yu lived in fear of the next outburst. You lived trying to avoid creating that situation. There are probably scenarios where if you can only change what you did. All your actions, you become more wary of, afraid of missteps. You have to learn that you did not cause your parents dysfunctions. With a therapist's help, you will learn to cope differently, see things in a different light.


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## happy as a clam

I think you let him back in, WAY too soon...

Without having DEFINITE boundaries and clarifications as to what is acceptable (with his harping, nagging, Momma's-boy mother, as well as his mooching, free-loading, deadbeat siblings).

Once he has "ensnared" himself into YOUR new, peaceful condo (which you and your child ESCAPED to) it won't be long before Momma and the brood of siblings and in-law misfits won't be FAR BEHIND!!

Sorry if that seems harsh, but it seems to me that NOTHING has changed (except that you are being buffaloed into a scam via his Sad-Beagle eyes...)

You were much better off on your own. And I think you know it. You just don't want to admit it.... yet. But I think you will, eventually. After Momma and the Gang arrive.


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## Orange_Pekoe

happy as a clam said:


> I think you let him back in, WAY too soon...
> 
> Without having DEFINITE boundaries and clarifications as to what is acceptable (with his harping, nagging, Momma's-boy mother, as well as his mooching, free-loading, deadbeat siblings).
> 
> Once he has "ensnared" himself into YOUR new, peaceful condo (which you and your child ESCAPED to) it won't be long before Momma and the brood of siblings and in-law misfits won't be FAR BEHIND!!
> 
> Sorry if that seems harsh, but it seems to me that NOTHING has changed (except that you are being buffaloed into a scam via his Sad-Beagle eyes...)
> 
> You were much better off on your own. And I think you know it. You just don't want to admit it.... yet. But I think you will, eventually. After Momma and the Gang arrive.


I understand why you'd think this, but please believe me when I say that I do want my marriage with him to work out. Otherwise I would not have obsessed over him for the 11 months of our separation.

I always told him that I was escaping his family, not giving up on our marriage.

I have told him that I will not be changing my living situation to accommodate his family at all. And that I don't want to have contact with them.

Getting a divorce would have meant either living single forever, or somehow trusting another man with my daughter. My husband and I still love each other and if there is a possibility it would work out, we owe it to each other and our daughter to do so. 

If he hurts me again, it will be proof that he has not changed, and I will have to go through the process of detachment and separation again. I realize that. I accept the risk.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Mr.Fisty said:


> Hmm, it explains why you stayed a long time in a toxic environment. AS children, we lack the capacity to deal with our emotions, so we develop coping mechanisms to the best of our abilities.
> 
> An example is neglect. Achild may learn to erect a wall to keep from feeling pain when they have a need to form an attachment with their parents. Since they cannot view the xomplexity of the situation, a child may simply learn to wall off their emotions.
> 
> Again, seeking help and seeing a therapist will help you see the picture more clearly and help with unraveling past emotions, get some understanding how you are the person you are, and with knowledge and tools, learn to correct and deal with your life in a healthier manner.
> 
> As a child, yu lived in fear of the next outburst. You lived trying to avoid creating that situation. There are probably scenarios where if you can only change what you did. All your actions, you become more wary of, afraid of missteps. You have to learn that you did not cause your parents dysfunctions. With a therapist's help, you will learn to cope differently, see things in a different light.


Yes, my childhood shaped who I am and also determined that I'd accept the amount of BS I was fed living with my in laws. I did not know how to stand up for myself or draw limits/boundaries, and I suffered immensely for it. I was taught that if I have a voice or fight for my rights, then I'm ill-mannered and a rebel. I have said this very straightforwardly to my parents.

I will not raise my child that way.


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## Orange_Pekoe

scatty said:


> I have been keeping up with your story, and I feel for you. Only time will tell if this will work out. My advice would be to re-evaluate the marriage every 3-6 months until you feel secure again. I hope your daughter is not being fed hate from your husband's family. Good luck, but stay viligent.


Thank you. Yes, I plan to re-evaluate, that's very good advice.

To be fair to my in laws: I lived with them 3 years and saw a lot of insanity but never once did they feed hate, to me or to each other. They were passive-aggressive and super attached to each other and very dysfunctional, but did not feed hate. So I am not concerned they will teach her that.

I'm concerned they will teach her to be passive-aggressive and dysfunctional in other ways, if she spends a lot of time with them. So her time with them is limited.


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## happy as a clam

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Getting a divorce would have meant either living single forever, or somehow trusting another man with my daughter.


Boo hoo. And I'm sorry if that seems mean or condescending, quite the opposite in fact.

You are dragging out a SERIOUSLY dysfunctional dynamic with your husband. LOTS of people get divorced and find MUCH BETTER, suitable partners for loving, caring relationships and child-rearing. Or they remain single, and quite happy.

Your husband hasn't "changed." He is playing you like a fine fiddle until he can move Momma and the Gang back in. Right under your nose. What's to stop The Gang from being there while YOU are at work?? And suddenly, Momma needs to stay the night. Next Junior and his wife are staying. And next, third-cousin Billy and his girlfriend?



Sorry, Orange. I think you are fooling yourself.


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## Orange_Pekoe

happy as a clam said:


> Your husband hasn't "changed." He is playing you like a fine fiddle until he can move Momma and the Gang back in. Right under your nose. What's to stop The Gang from being there while YOU are at work?? And suddenly, Momma needs to stay the night. Next Junior and his wife are staying. And next, third-cousin Billy and his girlfriend?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Orange. I think you are fooling yourself.


This might be true, it's very possible. (That he has not changed and his family will try to move in.)

What you do not realize is that I have changed. If I have to put my foot down a second time, I WILL. The first time was the hardest...I literally did not have a job, and would have been out on the streets if my parents did not take me in. I was enmeshed with my husband's family as much as he was and somehow ripped myself away from them and built myself a new life. This time, I have a job, and I also am not enmeshed with his family. 

If the day comes that I post on this board that he betrayed me and his family crossed all limits and etc. and I'm considering separation again, so be it. But until that time comes, we make our own choices. I make mine.


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## Orange_Pekoe

happy as a clam said:


> Boo hoo. And I'm sorry if that seems mean or condescending, quite the opposite in fact.
> 
> You are dragging out a SERIOUSLY dysfunctional dynamic with your husband. LOTS of people get divorced and find MUCH BETTER, suitable partners for loving, caring relationships and child-rearing. Or they remain single, and quite happy.
> 
> Your husband hasn't "changed." He is playing you like a fine fiddle until he can move Momma and the Gang back in. Right under your nose. What's to stop The Gang from being there while YOU are at work?? And suddenly, Momma needs to stay the night. Next Junior and his wife are staying. And next, third-cousin Billy and his girlfriend?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Orange. I think you are fooling yourself.


Also, for you to say that I am fooling myself, would mean that I'd have to think that everything is OK. 

I don't think that at all. Not in the least. I know we have a lot of work to do and there are serious issues to be resolved. I just KNOW that it's worth it to try.


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## Pluto2

OP, I understand boundaries are an issue for you. You've been trained by your family that when your needs are not as important as "the family" and I think because of that, you are willing to accept more than you should in a healthy relationship. 

Could I suggest that to help you reinforce your boundaries, write them down. Get a journal and write out what behavior is not acceptable. Phone calls, bad mouthing, money-whatever makes your list. Write it down now at a time when you believe your H is really making an effort. Examine it often. Use it as a tool when you periodically re-evaluate your relationship. This will help you from making excuses or moving that line in the sand back and back and back. And I would show the list to your H so there's no question that you are on the same track with your R.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Thank you Pluto. That's really good advice.

Knowing my situation, would I be selfish to get a divorce knowing my child will be impacted?
I have not grown up with divorced parents. I grew up wishing my parents were divorced because they argued a lot and don't want that for my child. But if I divorce, will my child grow up wishing we were together and feeling less than other children because of it? Wishing she had siblings?

She's my main concern.


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## Pluto2

OP, I can't answer that for you. I can share that before my divorce my ex was verbally and emotionally abusive to me and our children. In my case, divorce has made their lives better. They are happy, healthy, well-adjusted and do not long for their dad and I to get back together. Obviously, different kids, with different families will have different reactions to divorce. In some cases, like mine, removing the pain my children had to live with was a good thing.


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## lifeistooshort

I can tell you what she's not going to want. A mother who was miserable and the knowledge that she's the reason for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Orange_Pekoe

Pluto2 said:


> OP, I can't answer that for you. I can share that before my divorce my ex was verbally and emotionally abusive to me and our children. In my case, divorce has made their lives better. They are happy, healthy, well-adjusted and do not long for their dad and I to get back together. Obviously, different kids, with different families will have different reactions to divorce. In some cases, like mine, removing the pain my children had to live with was a good thing.


She LOVES him. She is VERY attached to him. He is super duper sweet to her, always very playful and attentive. To the point where he is a helicoptre parent and I'm always telling him to give her space to learn and grow and become independant...figure things out for her own. Yes, even at age two and half!

lifeistooshort: That's what I'm afraid of. I don't know how to balance her love and attachment to him with my longing for peace. He doesn't make me miserable, I make myself miserable thinking about the past and worrying about the future. He has not been abusive to me since we reconciled. If he ever is, he's out the door.

The problem is no longer that he's emotionally/verbally abusive. The problem is that I have no trust in him and don't rely on him. I am very resentful about the past and find myself unable to forgive him. And it's a big problem...big.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Quick update...my initial relief that we avoided divorce and he came running back to me has subsided. And I am full of anger, resentment and bitterness over what he did and how his family treated me. He keeps apologizing to me and I had a conversation with him last night saying I think it's best if you don't live with us because I don't want to be the wife who battles your family for your time and attention, AND I can't seem to get past the last year of abandonment. His response is he cries and begs me not to break up our marriage and says he loves us and can't live without us. He says it's going to take time to heal.

Somehow I need to forgive him and his family for hurting me. I need to stop being a victim. I need to do this for myself because it's eating me up alive, with the nightmares and negative thinking. I am concerned for myself. And this is the case whether I'm with him or not. I need to get past what happened. I need to stop reliving it. Hating his family only reinforces an emotional link that is strong LIKE STEEL with them...and I don't want them to have that power over me.


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## Mr.Fisty

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Quick update...my initial relief that we avoided divorce and he came running back to me has subsided. And I am full of anger, resentment and bitterness over what he did and how his family treated me. He keeps apologizing to me and I had a conversation with him last night saying I think it's best if you don't live with us because I don't want to be the wife who battles your family for your time and attention, AND I can't seem to get past the last year of abandonment. His response is he cries and begs me not to break up our marriage and says he loves us and can't live without us. He says it's going to take time to heal.
> 
> Somehow I need to forgive him and his family for hurting me. I need to stop being a victim. I need to do this for myself because it's eating me up alive, with the nightmares and negative thinking. I am concerned for myself. And this is the case whether I'm with him or not. I need to get past what happened. I need to stop reliving it. Hating his family only reinforces an emotional link that is strong LIKE STEEL with them...and I don't want them to have that power over me.



Do not forget, he is an emotional trigger for you. As stated, he represents the pain you went through. After getting your fix of him again, a lot of those emotions that you have not dealt with came rushing back.

Also, you are more wary, there is an emotional wall and a part of you is keeping him at arm's length for your mental safety.

He is associated with pain, so you avoid it. He is also associated with love, so you gravitate towards him. You are in a lot of conflict at the moment.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Mr.Fisty said:


> Do not forget, he is an emotional trigger for you. As stated, he represents the pain you went through. After getting your fix of him again, a lot of those emotions that you have not dealt with came rushing back.
> 
> Also, you are more wary, there is an emotional wall and a part of you is keeping him at arm's length for your mental safety.
> 
> He is associated with pain, so you avoid it. He is also associated with love, so you gravitate towards him. You are in a lot of conflict at the moment.


I said to him, "When I look at you, all I see is pain."
And his eyes showed me how hurt he was by that, but he also knew it was the truth. Yes, he's a trigger for me...the phone was on speaker a couple of times so our daughter could speak to his siblings and mom and just hearing their voices triggers anger and hurt in me. 

It's strange, because I tell him exactly like it is. I force myself to, because the old version of me (too nice) got ripped to shreds emotionally and I won't allow it to happen again. The old him would have yelled, but he's so afraid of losing us that he turns to begging and crying. 

One thing we have both committed to is that we do not yell at each other. Thus far we've stuck to that and it's made a huge difference. I will not tolerate ANY kind of abuse.

I have said to him that I do not trust him, and that it's only a matter of time before he hurts me again...and because of how hard it is to forgive and forget how much him/his family hurt me, I don't want to be married anymore. He hugs me and says he won't hurt me, and things will get better, that it will take time to heal. And that I shouldn't hold grudges.

I know I have to deal with the hurt and anger toward his family somehow, for my sake and my daughter's sake. She deserves to be taken care of by a mother who has good qualities: I don't want to hold grudges, and I also don't want to be around people that I dislike and who are hypocritical and unjust. My dad held a lot of grudges (still does) and I grew up wishing he was more relaxed and friendly. We suffered a lot as kids because he disliked my mom's family. I see myself turning in to him. 

Sometimes I get so mad at myself for giving his family so much rent-free space in my head that I end up telling myself, "Get the hell over it already!" ... and it doesn't work. I eat resentment for breakfast, lunch and dinner.


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## Pluto2

OP, am I remembering correctly that your H has refused counseling? Are you going? If not, you should. You are in a difficult place to navigate on your own and it might help you with the doubts that you feel.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Pluto2 said:


> OP, am I remembering correctly that your H has refused counseling? Are you going? If not, you should. You are in a difficult place to navigate on your own and it might help you with the doubts that you feel.


I am not going to counselling right now. Yes, I should go to counselling. 
I'll call a counsellor next week.


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## jb02157

I think it's great that you got back to together, but you did say it's only a matter of time before you'll have to deal with his family. Having in-laws that hurt you terribly puts ALOT of strain on a marriage and I'm talking from experience here. My wife's family hurt me tremendously and almost broke us apart (which probably
would have been a good thing) and the only thing that kept us together was moving across the country. 

Unless the relationship you have with your H is very strong, and it doesn't seem it is, his family will continue to hurt you and your relationship probably won't survive. I think before you go any farther you have to confront his family and say that you need to be treated with respect and you will respect them in kind. If they refuse or won't respond, unless you want a life of constantly being hurt, you have to strongly consider ending the relationship. I do want you to be happy, but forcing this relationship to work when it has such a dark side probably won't bring you much happiness. I wish you all the best.


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## Orange_Pekoe

jb02157 said:


> I think it's great that you got back to together, but you did say it's only a matter of time before you'll have to deal with his family. Having in-laws that hurt you terribly puts ALOT of strain on a marriage and I'm talking from experience here. My wife's family hurt me tremendously and almost broke us apart (which probably
> would have been a good thing) and the only thing that kept us together was moving across the country.
> 
> Unless the relationship you have with your H is very strong, and it doesn't seem it is, his family will continue to hurt you and your relationship probably won't survive. I think before you go any farther you have to confront his family and say that you need to be treated with respect and you will respect them in kind. If they refuse or won't respond, unless you want a life of constantly being hurt, you have to strongly consider ending the relationship. I do want you to be happy, but forcing this relationship to work when it has such a dark side probably won't bring you much happiness. I wish you all the best.


Thank you for this. This has been eating me. Deep in my heart I know this is true and I don't want to let go of a man that I love and have a child with but at the same time, I don't know how to make it work when I feel so much intense hurt about his family.


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## Orange_Pekoe

I have strongly considered confronting his family and talking the issue out.
The problem is this: When we have done this before (talked it out) they do not take responsibility for their faults. It causes an endless back and forth argument. Especially now that there is a 1-year separation (which they were an integral part of and cause of), I imagine this sort of conversation would be even more pointless.

They are a very close-knit family and will chew out anyone who they feel remotely threatened by.

My husband thinks I am trying to separate him from his family (of course I am...trying to get him to detach...but not complete separation, I'm not evil) and of course his family will believe the same thing. And this will only get worse with time not better.

I only see one way out. Divorce. Staying together is emotionally very hard for me...too hard! It's not making a difference how nice he is to me...the damage has been done. I feel especially lonely because he's been on a religious retreat for the last 10 days and I am taking care of everything (including our daughter) at home alone. I can't work on a marriage when the other party is absent.


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## jb02157

Orange_Pekoe said:


> I have strongly considered confronting his family and talking the issue out.
> The problem is this: When we have done this before (talked it out) they do not take responsibility for their faults. It causes an endless back and forth argument. Especially now that there is a 1-year separation (which they were an integral part of and cause of), I imagine this sort of conversation would be even more pointless.
> 
> They are a very close-knit family and will chew out anyone who they feel remotely threatened by.
> 
> My husband thinks I am trying to separate him from his family (of course I am...trying to get him to detach...but not complete separation, I'm not evil) and of course his family will believe the same thing. And this will only get worse with time not better.
> 
> I only see one way out. Divorce. Staying together is emotionally very hard for me...too hard! It's not making a difference how nice he is to me...the damage has been done. I feel especially lonely because he's been on a religious retreat for the last 10 days and I am taking care of everything (including our daughter) at home alone. I can't work on a marriage when the other party is absent.


It's too bad to have to come to that conclusion but I think you are doing the right thing. There's really no way to fix the relationship with your in-laws, especially since that feel no responsibility for their actions. I had the same problem, insulting me was fair game for my in-laws and probably the reason why my wife is so horribly immature since she grew up in an atmosphere where that was ok. I had to make the same choice and should have done what you did. I chose to stay the course and wish I didn't. Even though both my MIL and FIL have passed, I still have to live with the result of a disfunctional family.


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## Pluto2

This is good advice. Its frustrating to remember we can't change other people. The most we can do is change how we react/interact around them. And sometimes, removal from their proximity is the best we can do. It never stops the situation from being sad though, does it.

Orange, did you and your H discuss this retreat before he left? Did he understand the strain it was going to add to the R? Remember, don't assume he saw the situation the same way you do.


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## Mr.Fisty

The emotional triggers do fade to a certain extent over time. For you , you are now just dealing with the resentment. As stated before, after your drive to rebond with him is gone and it is not a priority as it once was, the emotional trauma now has more energy to surface. You were motivated to stay with him, and that pushed the issues back a bit, because we can only focus on so many different things at once.

The probability of you working your grievances with his family is practically slim to nonexistent. This is a factor you should keep in mind and have to accept if you stay with him as he is.

By choosing to be with him, you live with his dysfunction and those around him.

I love my mother and all, but my life is better seeing her only a couple of times a year. She was a codependent person who could not leave an abuser to protect me. As much therapy there is, it can only go so far in dealing with the emotional scars, but time does make those emotional memories fade. Just like thoughts about your wedding no longer brings the same level of emotions as time moves you further from that event, you can get past it.

Unfortunately, the only way for you to heal is to cut all contact with them as they reinforce those emotional triggers.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Thank you for the feedback.

Yes, he talked about the retreat before he went on it. He even asked me for permission to go, and I said yes. That was a mistake on my part...I didn't realize it would put such a strain on me. And that I'd resent him for leaving us when we should be working on the marriage. Lesson learned.

As for his family: This week we were celebrating Eid. It is a time of forgiveness and spreading cheer to your family and friends. I voluntarily called his mother and visited her at their home. His mother was reasonably nice to me, she spent the whole time (1 hour) I was there sitting in the living room with me. His sister is a jerk and so is his brother. They didn't give me the time of day and when we got back, I really let him have it. I said to him: "compare how my family treated you yesterday, with how your siblings treated me today. Night and day difference. My family showed you kindness, your family showed me complete indifference. They'd treat a dog better." He took their side and I asked him to just stop defending them, give me his key and leave. He got desperate again and tried comforting me and is being super nice to me.

I've gotten a lot of advice from family members this weekend who basically told me, don't interact with his family at all. I tried to set my ego aside and show forgiveness...his siblings honestly don't give a damn though. His mom returned my efforts.

On the other hand, I'm glad I went. It showed me what I rescued myself from. A horribly toxic environment...I left there feeling grateful I escaped. I was also being consumed by hatred for his family and it was eating me up...now that I've visited them, the hatred is basically limited to his sister and brother. The mom and brother's wife were warm toward me and that's made a difference in how I feel every time his mom calls him at home. I won't cringe. But I hate his sister. She's a homewrecker.

My husband is here to stay. He'll only go if I force him to go, as in literally force him to give me his key and leave and not take no for an answer. I don't want to do that. Last night I felt SO STRONGLY that he should give me his key and leave...but he responded with love and that softened me. Every time he cries and begs me not to end our marriage, I feel like it's penance for the one year of separation. I also delivered some ultimatums...told him I'm done with your siblings, don't bring them around here. And again, I WILL NEVER LIVE WITH ANY OF YOUR FAMILY EVER. I know a lot of people say not to deliver ultimatums but if he wants to stay with me he needs to know the ground rules.

I won't be able to change his family. They will not magically turn in to decent human beings. "You can't teach a whale to walk." But, if I focus on my husband and my self and our child only...then we might be able to build a good life. I'll give it a year. If within a year everything has improved substantially, we will continue. If not, it will never get better, and I'll know to raise my daughter on my own.


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## Jung_admirer

Orange_Pekoe said:


> I think-up situations that haven't come to exist. Then I worry.
> I also remember situations in the past that were very intense and hurtful. Then I brood.
> 
> Does anyone else do this?!
> 
> How do I stop?
> 
> And this is not just something that I started doing after living with my in laws. I remember doing this throughout my adolescence, because my parents would fight and I was walking on eggshells most of the time.


What you described is called "generalized anxiety". Take a quick look here and post your thoughts: 
Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD): Symptoms, Treatment, and Self-Help


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## Orange_Pekoe

Jung_admirer said:


> What you described is called "generalized anxiety". Take a quick look here and post your thoughts:
> Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD): Symptoms, Treatment, and Self-Help


I'm not sure.
The link explains that GAD is not limited to a specific topic. Sufferers worry about anything.

Whereas mine is very specific - it's either related to my in laws, my marriage or my family.


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## Jung_admirer

I think the most telling symptom of GAD is the lamenting over "worst case scenarios". This is very difficult for the sufferer (and their partner). "What if your father lost his home and needed to move in with us?" "What if you brother insists on bring his fiance to the family Christmas party knowing his ex-partner will be there?" Sometimes we need to prepare for the worst scenarios so reality does not send us reeling (i.e. this behavior is defensive and self-protecting). It's only a problem if you can't calm yourself down, or if it disrupts your day-to-day activity.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Jung_admirer said:


> I think the most telling symptom of GAD is the lamenting over "worst case scenarios". This is very difficult for the sufferer (and their partner). "What if your father lost his home and needed to move in with us?" "What if you brother insists on bring his fiance to the family Christmas party knowing his ex-partner will be there?" Sometimes we need to prepare for the worst scenarios so reality does not send us reeling (i.e. this behavior is defensive and self-protecting). It's only a problem if you can't calm yourself down, or if it disrupts your day-to-day activity.


I definitely do this. I've been having thoughts like that since adolescence. I worry about worst-case scenarios. I was conditioned to do this by my parents because my dad was super-controlling and instilled fear in us.

I can calm myself, and it doesn't disrupt my day to day. But I feel like there is a crazy person inside my head who almost never shuts up...on bad days. On good days I can force my thoughts elsewhere. It all depends on how tired and/or stressed I am.

I also lash out in a negative situation. My dad wasn't talking to me yesterday and I lashed out at him and told him I would not be speaking to him anymore. And I'm sad now.

It's funny how badly our parents can screw us up. Also, because I'm unhappy, I'm snapping at my daughter and not being the ideal mom.


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## Mr.Fisty

Have you learned the art of mindfulness? It helps you focus on the here and now.

Also, you are afraid of outcomes, when you should view outcomes as learning experiences. For instance, do not worry if your relationship works or not, make sure that you will be mentally fine afterwards. If it does not work, admit that it did not work and you learn a valuable lesson, a life with your husband is not possible. Do not view the marriage as a failure or success. Here is why, if you and your daughter will be more emotionally healthy without him, how is that a failure? View it as a relationship that no longer meets your realistic parameters for you to stay in. And realistic expectations instead of hoping what you hope to occur is the way to go. You know your husband has some issues, with that in mind, you know that there is a chance it will not work out, so you keep that in mind.

If things do work out with your husband than great. The point is your life is not defined if your marriage lasts or not, it is how you adapt to the new situation and move on. Imagine your daughter with that same attitude. If she were abused by a spouse, she admits that her spouse is dysfunctional and for her well-being, it is better to move on. Wouldn't you consider that a success, escaping pain and misery?

By letting go of what outcomes may and may not occur, they lose emotional power over you. Just keep your boundaries and how you view success should be different given the circumstance.

If two out of three people will be fine if you divorce, it is better than three dysfunctional people in the end.

Work on your end to be okay however the situation goes. WE do not have hindsight, so be okay with making mistakes. Letting your husband back, may or not be a mistake, but you will not know that until down the line. Just keep working on you, find out what makes you happy outside of a relationship. Learn to detach and view things from an outside perspective.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Mr.Fisty said:


> Have you learned the art of mindfulness? It helps you focus on the here and now.
> 
> Also, you are afraid of outcomes, when you should view outcomes as learning experiences. For instance, do not worry if your relationship works or not, make sure that you will be mentally fine afterwards. If it does not work, admit that it did not work and you learn a valuable lesson, a life with your husband is not possible. Do not view the marriage as a failure or success. Here is why, if you and your daughter will be more emotionally healthy without him, how is that a failure? View it as a relationship that no longer meets your realistic parameters for you to stay in. And realistic expectations instead of hoping what you hope to occur is the way to go. You know your husband has some issues, with that in mind, you know that there is a chance it will not work out, so you keep that in mind.
> 
> If things do work out with your husband than great. The point is your life is not defined if your marriage lasts or not, it is how you adapt to the new situation and move on. Imagine your daughter with that same attitude. If she were abused by a spouse, she admits that her spouse is dysfunctional and for her well-being, it is better to move on. Wouldn't you consider that a success, escaping pain and misery?
> 
> By letting go of what outcomes may and may not occur, they lose emotional power over you. Just keep your boundaries and how you view success should be different given the circumstance.
> 
> If two out of three people will be fine if you divorce, it is better than three dysfunctional people in the end.
> 
> Work on your end to be okay however the situation goes. WE do not have hindsight, so be okay with making mistakes. Letting your husband back, may or not be a mistake, but you will not know that until down the line. Just keep working on you, find out what makes you happy outside of a relationship. Learn to detach and view things from an outside perspective.


This is very helpful advice. Thank you.

I read a lot of Eckhart Tolle, and watch his videos/lectures. But for some reason, it is not having as much of an impact on me as it used to.

It is true that I have to focus on keeping boundaries, and maintaining my mental health. The problem is this: I know that I am attached to him, and that I should be detached. How do I detach and yet establish and maintain boundaries? For example: He wants to sleep over at his mom's house every week. I want him to know that is not acceptable, he should be working on our marriage. So I tell him that. Yet there is a part of me that knows I should be detached, let him sleep at his mom's house and then show him the consequences of that decision.

My husband isn't the one causing me sadness right now. My dad is. Things with husband are actually much better than I ever expected. But it's still too early to really tell.


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## Mr.Fisty

As for your dad, loving from a distance may work. He is highly ingrained in his way, and if he does not see he has an issue, then your interaction with him will only cause you pain. Of course, you can learn to accept that he is the way he is due to his upbringing, and give his words less stock.

As for your husband wanting to sleep over, communicate your boundaries clearly and tell him how that will make you feel. If he chooses to go anyways, detach.

Detaching is hard to do when you are constantly around them, and the only way is to limit reaction and limit contact. It is like taking a step back, calming down one's self, and removing the emotions from a situation. It takes practice.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Mr.Fisty said:


> As for your dad, loving from a distance may work. He is highly ingrained in his way, and if he does not see he has an issue, then your interaction with him will only cause you pain. Of course, you can learn to accept that he is the way he is due to his upbringing, and give his words less stock.
> 
> As for your husband wanting to sleep over, communicate your boundaries clearly and tell him how that will make you feel. If he chooses to go anyways, detach.
> 
> Detaching is hard to do when you are constantly around them, and the only way is to limit reaction and limit contact. It is like taking a step back, calming down one's self, and removing the emotions from a situation. It takes practice.


Yes, I've decided to see my dad less, and basically avoid contact as much as I can. Also his words don't have as much impact as they used to. I know he's always been that way and always will be...the most I can do is not put myself in a situation where he'd make me feel bad about myself.

Anyway - I did speak too soon when I said things are better with my husband. He's super nice and kind to me, and helpful around the home etc. But he has not detached from his family. And that, to me, is a major threat.

They sold their house, he moved in with me, his mom/siblings moved to another home 15 minutes away. Much closer than is comfortable for me but I of course was not involved in their home-hunting process. I was happy that this meant he'd detach, see them once or twice a week for a day, and spend the other weekend day with me. I was happy also because, they used to go to work together in the morning and commute back together in the evening. Kind of like 3 kids going to kindergarten. Moving in with me meant he'd take the train from near our condo...and no longer commute with his siblings. This was a MAJOR STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. It would help things normalize.

Well...yesterday morning he first went to his Mom's house, then to the subway station with his siblings, got to work, and in the evening commuted back to his Mom's house, spent an hour there and then picked up our daughter and came home. He didn't tell me any of this. I suspected it bc he was posting on FB at a time he's normally never online...which hinted that he got out of work early.

I told him, you're an adult, you need to detach from your family. I want a normal husband who commutes to work on his own. I don't trust them, I don't trust you...you found a way to move your siblings close to our condo and commute every day with them, this was your plan all along. And in the future you'll try to move me in to the same home as your mother and sister. I basically told him to live with his Mom because it's clear that's where his happiness lies. I was very reactionary. And very mean. Honestly I have no patience for this BS ... he doesn't even see anything wrong with the situation. He says it doesn't directly affect me.

I will take your advice, take a step back, calm down, and detach. He hasn't changed. After a year of separation, he still doesn't see his family as a threat to his marriage. And at the end of the day...the problem is not his family. It's my husband, for not establishing boundaries and limits with his family.


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## Mr.Fisty

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Yes, I've decided to see my dad less, and basically avoid contact as much as I can. Also his words don't have as much impact as they used to. I know he's always been that way and always will be...the most I can do is not put myself in a situation where he'd make me feel bad about myself.
> 
> Anyway - I did speak too soon when I said things are better with my husband. He's super nice and kind to me, and helpful around the home etc. But he has not detached from his family. And that, to me, is a major threat.
> 
> They sold their house, he moved in with me, his mom/siblings moved to another home 15 minutes away. Much closer than is comfortable for me but I of course was not involved in their home-hunting process. I was happy that this meant he'd detach, see them once or twice a week for a day, and spend the other weekend day with me. I was happy also because, they used to go to work together in the morning and commute back together in the evening. Kind of like 3 kids going to kindergarten. Moving in with me meant he'd take the train from near our condo...and no longer commute with his siblings. This was a MAJOR STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. It would help things normalize.
> 
> Well...yesterday morning he first went to his Mom's house, then to the subway station with his siblings, got to work, and in the evening commuted back to his Mom's house, spent an hour there and then picked up our daughter and came home. He didn't tell me any of this. I suspected it bc he was posting on FB at a time he's normally never online...which hinted that he got out of work early.
> 
> I told him, you're an adult, you need to detach from your family. I want a normal husband who commutes to work on his own. I don't trust them, I don't trust you...you found a way to move your siblings close to our condo and commute every day with them, this was your plan all along. And in the future you'll try to move me in to the same home as your mother and sister. I basically told him to live with his Mom because it's clear that's where his happiness lies. I was very reactionary. And very mean. Honestly I have no patience for this BS ... he doesn't even see anything wrong with the situation. He says it doesn't directly affect me.
> 
> I will take your advice, take a step back, calm down, and detach. He hasn't changed. After a year of separation, he still doesn't see his family as a threat to his marriage. And at the end of the day...the problem is not his family. It's my husband, for not establishing boundaries and limits with his family.



Yes, your in-laws really have no relationship with you, and it is only through your husband that they affect your life.

Remember, he never admitted he has an issue, so I am guessing he believes that it is possible to get everything he wants.

Remember when detaching, you will feel that pull to reconnect with him again. That is something you should be aware of and use your logical thinking over your emotional ones.

You also have to remember that to him, he does not see anything wrong with his actions and may believe that you're over emotional and over reacting. Just a guess, but it does match his probable way of thinking.

As for your father's words affecting you less. You are detaching from him and his level of attachment to you has faded. Sorry to say, but you became more indifferent, but it also means that you have a chance to escape the drama and heal.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Mr.Fisty said:


> You also have to remember that to him, he does not see anything wrong with his actions and may believe that you're over emotional and over reacting. Just a guess, but it does match his probable way of thinking.


He sees nothing wrong with his actions.
He says I am causing arguments and picking over things that are insignificant.

There are days we are very joyful, in-tune, and get along very well. We spent a beautiful Sunday together with our daughter and I felt so blessed. Then he does something like this and I feel as if my once-peaceful home is suffocating me.

I have learned to trust my gut. He is trying to convince me that commuting with his siblings is not a big deal. I know in my gut that it is a big threat and a big deal. It's a deal-breaker for me, because it has shown me that he has not changed and in fact sees nothing wrong with his intense level of attachment to his family. It also gives his family a chance to manipulate him even further. Many friends and family will try to tell me otherwise...so I refuse to involve them in my decisions from now on. Nobody else walks in my shoes.

I wish he would not commute with them. It would solve this dilemma so easily. But the commute is not the dilemma...it's much deeper than that. It's his inability to act like an independant adult and also detach from his family to a level that is healthy for a 35 year old man.


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## Mr.Fisty

Orange_Pekoe said:


> He sees nothing wrong with his actions.
> He says I am causing arguments and picking over things that are insignificant.
> 
> There are days we are very joyful, in-tune, and get along very well. We spent a beautiful Sunday together with our daughter and I felt so blessed. Then he does something like this and I feel as if my once-peaceful home is suffocating me.
> 
> I have learned to trust my gut. He is trying to convince me that commuting with his siblings is not a big deal. I know in my gut that it is a big threat and a big deal. It's a deal-breaker for me, because it has shown me that he has not changed and in fact sees nothing wrong with his intense level of attachment to his family. It also gives his family a chance to manipulate him even further. Many friends and family will try to tell me otherwise...so I refuse to involve them in my decisions from now on. Nobody else walks in my shoes.
> 
> I wish he would not commute with them. It would solve this dilemma so easily. But the commute is not the dilemma...it's much deeper than that. It's his inability to act like an independant adult and also detach from his family to a level that is healthy for a 35 year old man.



He loves to be needed by his family. Tbh, it is part of his identity and who he sees himself as. Trying to have a healthy level of detachment from his family is trying to force him to give up a part of what makes him, him.

Normally, it is the job of parental figures to give their progeny the tools to become their own independent entity so they can survive without them. As you know,, he was ingrained with a different way of living.

He will minimize your emotions, after all he wants the outcome of a integrated family.

He is working towards that, acting kind and nice, backing off when he sees resistance. Your goal is different, you want a separate life that makes you, him, and your daughter the main priority of that family unit.

Whatever you decide, you must learn to stick with it for stability. Honestly, if you want change, he will need to seek help for that. This is something beyond your ability to influence in any major way.

If you stay with him for a while longer to see. Keep an emotional distance, and be more skeptical towards his actions. Instead, ask why is he being nice, and is there an agenda behind his actions. That is something for you to figure out if there is any.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Mr.Fisty said:


> He loves to be needed by his family. Tbh, it is part of his identity and who he sees himself as. Trying to have a healthy level of detachment from his family is trying to force him to give up a part of what makes him, him.
> 
> Normally, it is the job of parental figures to give their progeny the tools to become their own independent entity so they can survive without them. As you know,, he was ingrained with a different way of living.
> 
> He will minimize your emotions, after all he wants the outcome of a integrated family.
> 
> He is working towards that, acting kind and nice, backing off when he sees resistance. Your goal is different, you want a separate life that makes you, him, and your daughter the main priority of that family unit.
> 
> Whatever you decide, you must learn to stick with it for stability. Honestly, if you want change, he will need to seek help for that. This is something beyond your ability to influence in any major way.
> 
> If you stay with him for a while longer to see. Keep an emotional distance, and be more skeptical towards his actions. Instead, ask why is he being nice, and is there an agenda behind his actions. That is something for you to figure out if there is any.


If we do split a second time (hopefully not, but it all depends)...it would be the last and final split. I refuse to be in a yo-yo relationship. It will have negative consequences for my mental and emotional health...and I don't even want to think about what it would do to my daughter. Yes, stability. This is not an episode of the Young & Restless.

I flat-out told him last night, that it seems to me he has a plan. To slowly work his family back in to my home, or for some sort of financial gain. But clearly he is not being honest with me and that does nothing to help my distrust of him. I was horribly mean to him and it's because I feel he deserves it, after everything he has put us through. He was of course, very offended when I asked what his true agenda was.

If he does decide to move out and get a place with his mother and sister, I won't stop him. I will help him pack, give him a hug and wish him a good life. But I won't be a part of that life.

I keep reminding myself what you said: that throughout all this, the goal is to ensure that no matter the outcome, I am OK in the end. And my child. If this marriage truly fails, it doesn't mean I have failed in life.


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## MarriedToTheOne

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Thanks Mr. Fisty. I am the leader of our family at the moment and I intend on being the leader until my husband proves that he can take care of us. I have no desire to control him, only to eventually get to a place where we are truly partners.
> 
> I am trying to keep my daughter's visits with his family limited. She goes there once a week.
> 
> I am afraid that I have some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder. Pretty convinced I've developed moderate ADD over the past year as a side-effect of our separation...I think it's something I always had but it only became noticeable to me the past year. (I haven't seen the doctor yet.)
> 
> Right now, he's the happy one and I'm not happy or unhappy. I'm enjoying the time he spends with us and inside, I feel like an 80 year old woman, bent over with the trials of life. It sounds melodramatic but that's the best way I can describe how I feel inside. Psychologically, I am not well...else why would I re-live past experiences or create imaginary future scenarios in my head? And worry so much?



You DEFINITELY need to seek professional help ASAP. You may likely have a type of PTSD as well as other mental health conditions. In both the sake of your relationship AND your own well being. Therapy WILL help, as will some medications. Your therapist may also want to involve your husband in order to insure that relationship matters stay positive.


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## Orange_Pekoe

MarriedToTheOne said:


> You DEFINITELY need to seek professional help ASAP. You may likely have a type of PTSD as well as other mental health conditions. In both the sake of your relationship AND your own well being. Therapy WILL help, as will some medications. Your therapist may also want to involve your husband in order to insure that relationship matters stay positive.


I woke up at 4am this morning and realized I need a counsellor. I can't do this on my own, it's too hard. So it's coincidental that I logged in and saw your post about the exact same thing.

My husband is being VERY good to us. Yes, he's made mistakes, but not intentional ones to hurt me on purpose...he has been a caring/loving father and husband since he's been back. Yet, I can't let go of the past. I feel an intense need to hurt him sometimes...with my words. And it works, and I know he doesn't want to leave but if I continue doing this, he will (any sane person would). And this time I can't blame him for it. Also, I'm lying when I say that I don't want to control him. If I could, I'd control his every move - when he visits his family, what he spends his money on, how he interacts with our daughter, how he dresses, how often he talks on the phone with his loved ones. I know this is not normal.

He's agreed that I will not ever live with his family again. We will have our own life. And he will not be financially supporting his siblings, our obligation is to the little family unit we've created together. I was worried about these 2 things...a candid conversation with him this morning cleared this up. But I need therapy. He said that I can't let go of the past, and I am being negative and worrying a lot and it's not allowing us to enjoy what we finally have together. This is true. I said to him that I need therapy...he said he'd even go with me to counselling. THAT'S A BIG ONE. That he finally sees how important it is to go to counselling together. To be honest, I want to go to counselling on my own first, then introduce him to it after a few sessions. 

Either way...I've finally come to realize that we travelled a very hard road of separation, narrowly avoided divorce, are living together and trying to work things out, yet there are times I PURPOSEFULLY TRY TO SABOTAGE IT. Something is wrong with me. I can't let go.


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## Pluto2

OP, there's lots of possibilities going on here. Maybe you are trying to sabotage the relationship-but I don't really think so.

I think more likely, you can't let go of the past (which honestly wasn't very long ago), because the pain and its sources have never been adequately dealt with. This is where counseling can really help you. Trust has not been fully restored and you question every action, challenge every assertion, and doubt every loving deed. A good counselor will help you through this. And it sounds very hopeful that your H is willing to attend.


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## Orange_Pekoe

Pluto2 said:


> OP, there's lots of possibilities going on here. Maybe you are trying to sabotage the relationship-but I don't really think so.
> 
> I think more likely, you can't let go of the past (which honestly wasn't very long ago), because the pain and its sources have never been adequately dealt with. This is where counseling can really help you. Trust has not been fully restored and you question every action, challenge every assertion, and doubt every loving deed. A good counselor will help you through this. And it sounds very hopeful that your H is willing to attend.


Thank you Pluto. You might be right.


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