# Sex! Just another thing on the todo list



## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

This is inspired by a different post where the question was: why would you choose porn over me?" (Very interesting go check it out) 

I have been married for 7 years and I still and always will, love my wife. There is nothing I wouldn't do for her. If that means that we will have a one sided sex life, then so be it. However before I stop trying i would like to ask for help. I think that we have a good marriage. We openly communicate about everything (that's her doing, she taught me that). We even talked about me watching porn (which she is against and so I don't). I know her love language and i am kind of a romantic. I know that sex drive is affected by stress or tiredness and I make sure that I help in anyway possible. And I am not complaining about the quantity of it but the quality of it. I think my wife understands the importance of intimacy in a relationship and she fulfills her "wifely duties" by once or twice a week allowing me to have sex with her. This sounds bad and it is. I don't want to be allowed to have sex i rather would like her to want to have sex with me. (There is a difference). I feel like i am a to do thing on a list. I can tell that she does not enjoy having sex by her face and her participation and it puzzles me as to why. I know that she has orgasms. And it's not like I am ugly and  size wise, stamina and the sense of adventure is there on my part. When we talk about sex it always ends with her saying "I understand but I don't know" and with me feeling guilty for not being happy with what I got. Questions like "what turns you on" or "how can I make it more pleasurable for you?" Are also a answered with just a generic non specific answer. I am so frustrated that I don't ask for sex anymore but just accept when she offers because I know that it's all out of a sense of duty.

So here I am asking what can I do to either help her to get a sense of desire for me/ or at all (I would be relieved if I knew that she was masturbating, because that would me that I am doing something wrong and I can somehow fix this) or to make her understand that I kinda what more than " I am here and have my legs spread". Or what I can do to change to help her.
The other option is that I go on medications to lower my drive to the point where it don't matter no more (I don't want to do that but I love that woman!!!)
Please remember that in all other aspects of our marriage i feel that she and I have awesome time and relationship.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

"Please remember that in all other aspects of our marriage i feel that she and I have awesome time and relationship."

How does she feel about the relationship?

In my last relationship my sexual attraction for my partner died. There's no doubt in my mind that he would have shared this very statement and believed it too. Hell I would have probably said that in the early stages as I had not connected the dots and realized the seemingly small issues that in synergy, lead to the demise of my sexual interest.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

Keke24 said:


> "Please remember that in all other aspects of our marriage i feel that she and I have awesome time and relationship."
> 
> How does she feel about the relationship?
> 
> In my last relationship my sexual attraction for my partner died. There's no doubt in my mind that he would have shared this very statement and believed it too. Hell I would have probably said that in the early stages as I had not connected the dots and realized the seemingly small issues that in synergy, lead to the demise of my sexual interest.




We talk about our relationship often, I try to make sure that we are on track. I mentioned that I do anything for her. I really mean that. I took a job so I am home early and I can cook(she hates cooking) I clean and do everything but laundry (she doesn't let me do that, I guess she doesn't like pink) i did change a lot about myself (behaviour wise) to her liking. In fact my friends all make fun of me because I am "whipped" but that don't bother me as long as she is happy. (And according to her she is). This is not a new thing. We had this problem since day1 of marriage. ( we did not have sex before we got married)


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

mjk101 said:


> .....I am not complaining about the quantity of it *but the quality of it*. I think my wife understands the importance of intimacy in a relationship and *she fulfills her "wifely duties" by once or twice a week allowing me to have sex with her. This sounds bad and it is.*
> 
> I don't want to be allowed to have sex *i rather would like her to want to have sex with me*. (There is a difference). I feel like i am a to do thing on a list. *I can tell that she does not enjoy having sex by her face and her participation *and it puzzles me as to why. *I know that she has orgasms.* And it's not like I am ugly and  size wise, stamina and the sense of adventure is there on my part. When we talk about sex it always ends with her saying "I understand but I don't know" and with me feeling guilty for not being happy with what I got. Questions like "what turns you on" or "how can I make it more pleasurable for you?" Are also a answered with just a generic non specific answer. *I am so frustrated that I don't ask for sex anymore* but just accept when she offers because I know that it's all out of a sense of duty.
> 
> ...


A couple of thoughts. First you are not broken and she is not broken. She isn't in need of fixing and neither are you. You should never consider taking medication that you don't need just to depress your sex drive. As a man one day, if you live long enough. you will either get some form of ED or prostate cancer (and the surgical fix for that has a high percentage rate of permanent ED). So enjoy your erections while you can.

I really dislike the thought of wanting each sexual experience to be a quality romantic/spiritual event. The reasons are that sex is a physical activity and like any requires practice to get good at it. Sex should be playful, exploratory and fun, not serious business. Sex should not create performance anxiety for your wife, or you.

If I were in your shoes, I would sit down with your wife and explain to her that you need help, in particular you need her help in changing yourself and your attitudes. That you would like the two of you to see a sex therapist. I would further tell her that she is not broken or in need of fixing, it is you that you want her help supporting changing your views toward sex and marriage. Seriously.

You obviously feel you are in an HD/LD sexual relationship where she doesn't want sex with you (on her to do list) and yet you are having sex twice a week. She probably knows exactly how disappointed with sex you feel and yet she keeps trying. If that is the case then you (and she in supporting you) need to figure out what will work for the both of you. Maybe if she starts to feel appreciated for her sexuality and her attempts she will become more "enthusiastic."

I was in a sex starved marriage where it was never again. With the help of a great Sex Therapist my marriage was saved. The ST helped teach us that sex should be playful, fun and exploratory. It should be an adult version of recess with giggling and laughing. Sometimes things will go fantastic and sometimes neither of us will orgasm and we can laugh about it and vow to try another day. Putting too much emphasis on quality of sex creates performance anxiety. The ST taught us to visualize what we wanted marriage to be in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, and what the role of sex was in keeping our relationship strong, playful and fun. 

The ST gave us Sensate Focus exercises to help us learn how to give touch and receive touch. The ST gave us Sinclair Institute Better Sex Videos to show us the technical aspects of different forms of sex we might want to explore. The ST helped us break the old toxic habits of ritualized sex we had developed over decades of marriage. In my transformation, I learned that I (as well as my wife) had a significant role in our failing marriage. Both my wife and I worked on changing ourselves and our sexual attitudes (not just changing our partner) so that we could each be a better spouse. It involved hard changes for each of us. 

From my limited experience, I would strongly recommend Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy book to you. (Your second post screams out what Glover would call "covert contracts" with your wife to try to get sex from her.) I would also recommend that you understand that a marriage is about compromise. You need to figure out in your head what you mean by "...she does not enjoy having sex..." What is it that you expect from her? Do you expect her to scream your name when she orgasms at the top of her lungs? Do you expect her to dress up in kinky clothes for you? Do you expect her to have the energy and desire to paw at you and seduce you? What do you mean by you want her to "...want to have sex with me.."? Are any of those realistic given her career, learned responses from you? Whether you want to admit it or not, you have probably conditioned your wife over the years in how she sexually responds to you.

You clearly now want something that you don't feel you are getting. I assume you don't want her to fake excitement. If so, how do you want her to change. Is what you want really fair? As MW Davis (Divorce Busting) says, the only person you have control over to change is yourself. You can change the way you treat your wife. You can change the way you allow her to treat you (a 180), but you can't change her. However, your can reinforce positive changes she exhibits to you that you like. You need to think about that for a minute.

The reason that a Sex Therapist is so valuable is that they have seen it all before and have training in how to help people with sexual difficulties. They also know how to help people reach compromise on sexual issues. You and your wife can potentially benefit from such help.

Good luck.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

mjk101 said:


> We talk about our relationship often, I try to make sure that we are on track. I mentioned that I do anything for her. I really mean that. I took a job so I am home early and I can cook(she hates cooking) I clean and do everything but laundry (she doesn't let me do that, I guess she doesn't like pink) i did change a lot about myself (behaviour wise) to her liking. In fact my friends all make fun of me because I am "whipped" but that don't bother me as long as she is happy. (And according to her she is). This is not a new thing. We had this problem since day1 of marriage. ( we did not have sex before we got married)


Oh dear, this sounds like a rerun of Mr. Nice Guy. But I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong. 

What was her sex drive like in her previous relationships? How did this problem play out in the beginning of your relationship?

FYI: my issues with my partner starting rearing its head from the very beginning. I just didn't realize this until much later when it got real serious.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

You go to work and come back and do everything (but laundry)? Does she work? Wow. Man, you sure that's not why the relationship is going downhill. Because she has you around like her little moose-boy. She probably doesn't respect you for being the doormat that your original post paints you out to be. Do you have friends that you socialise with outside of home? 'Cause you sound like a "yes ma'am, no ma'am" character that doesn't have a life of his own; whose life revolves around his wife. Not a good thing. I don't care what those ****ty movies/books say.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> You go to work and come back and do everything (but laundry)? Does she work? Wow. Man, you sure that's not why the relationship is going downhill. Because she has you around like her little moose-boy. She probably doesn't respect you for being the doormat that your original post paints you out to be. Do you have friends that you socialise with outside of home? 'Cause you sound like a "yes ma'am, no ma'am" character that doesn't have a life of his own; whose life revolves around his wife. Not a good thing. I don't care what those ****ty movies/books say.


Oh dear, someone's said it...

OP, you sound very much like my ex.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

When was the last time you went away together?


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> A couple of thoughts. First you are not broken and she is not broken. She isn't in need of fixing and neither are you. You should never consider taking medication that you don't need just to depress your sex drive. As a man one day, if you live long enough. you will either get some form of ED or prostate cancer (and the surgical fix for that has a high percentage rate of permanent ED). So enjoy your erections while you can.
> 
> I really dislike the thought of wanting each sexual experience to be a quality romantic/spiritual event. The reasons are that sex is a physical activity and like any requires practice to get good at it. Sex should be playful, exploratory and fun, not serious business. Sex should not create performance anxiety for your wife, or you.
> 
> ...




Thanks you for that comment. I thought about going to a therapist before as well but I think she needs to be willing to go aswell as listen and change(if needed) but at this point I think that she doesn't see this as a problem. She thinks that women have less to no desire for sex and that its a guys thing only women in porn like sex because they get paid for it. So I don't know how to counter that.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

Keke24 said:


> Oh dear, this sounds like a rerun of Mr. Nice Guy. But I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong.
> 
> What was her sex drive like in her previous relationships? How did this problem play out in the beginning of your relationship?
> 
> FYI: my issues with my partner starting rearing its head from the very beginning. I just didn't realize this until much later when it got real serious.




I am her first and she is my first. And yes I know she is telling the truth because the pain and blood the first time .How did it start? First it was the #of times we had sex I had to beg and beg to get it. After we started to talk more and I told her how I feel. After that we had more sex but it was still mechanical. When we talk about it she Beats around the bush but the point she makes that the sex is for me


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

EunuchMonk said:


> You go to work and come back and do everything (but laundry)? Does she work? Wow. Man, you sure that's not why the relationship is going downhill. Because she has you around like her little moose-boy. She probably doesn't respect you for being the doormat that your original post paints you out to be. Do you have friends that you socialise with outside of home? 'Cause you sound like a "yes ma'am, no ma'am" character that doesn't have a life of his own; whose life revolves around his wife. Not a good thing. I don't care what those ****ty movies/books say.




Sorry I don't quite understand. What exactly do u mean? And reading my post I should correct myself it sounds like I am doing all the work. Not quite Right. i help her along in everything except laundry. Ex. We clean together.... and yes I have friends but I don't go out much just here and there /couple times a month


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

mjk101 said:


> Thanks you for that comment. I thought about going to a therapist before as well but I think she needs to be willing to go aswell as listen and change(if needed) but at this point I think that she doesn't see this as a problem.


So if you work all day,come home and cook dinner,clean up after dinner and do the hoovering your wife "might"allow you to have sex with her once or twice a week while she lies there motionless.Even your friends tell you that you are *****whipped but "you don't mind".This is not how married life or any life should be.Your wife has lost all respect for you and if she gets her sex drive it won't be you getting the benefit of it.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

urf said:


> When was the last time you went away together?



About a year ago.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

mjk101 said:


> Sorry I don't quite understand. What exactly do u mean? And reading my post I should correct myself it sounds like I am doing all the work. Not quite Right. i help her along in everything except laundry. Ex. We clean together.... and yes I have friends but I don't go out much just here and there /couple times a month


You still sound like her servant to me. As @Andy1001 said, your friends are calling you whipped for a reason. They can see something about you that you can't see because it is hard to be fully self-aware at all times. That's why humans exist in community. We can see things in another that they can't see in themselves and vice-versa. I hope you are not "helping" her in return for sex because that is manipulative. If you clean around the house, do it because you want to not because you are expecting something in return. Because when you don't get what you are expecting in return you will get bitter and that will only further damage the relationship.

You need to start getting your own life. Go out more. Not to the point where you are seldom ever home but enough so that you have some surviving social life outside of home. Being this social will open you up to new things, it will make you more confident, and that will be more attractive to your wife. As contradicting as it may sound, being excessively helpful to your woman will actually make her less attracted to you. You have to be your own man. Helping when you see the need and saying no when you don't want to.

Like a previous poster said, read _No More Mister Nice Guy_. It's free online and I think you will find in it a treasure trove of wisdom.

Godspeed OP


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

mjk101 said:


> I am her first and she is my first. How did it start? First it was the #of times we had sex I had to beg and beg to get it. After we started to talk more and I told her how I feel. After that we had more sex but it was still mechanical. When we talk about it she Beats around the bush but the point she makes that the sex is for me


Well this complicates things. If she was a virgin then she may not have a very good idea about what she likes sexually, what turns her off, how to make herself orgasm etc etc. Her saying "she doesn't know" in response to you asking why there's an issue is probably true.

I think it would be easiest to scratch off you being a nice guy as the bigger part of the problem by getting her to admit or deny that reality. Other potential factors like her simply being LD/you HD or her having some medical issue or just not being interested in sex are a bit more complicated. 

As another poster has said, you should check out the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Most importantly, she should read it too. The PDF is available for free online. Ask her to read it (without telling her this is about the sex) and see if she recognizes similarities in your personality.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

EunuchMonk said:


> You still sound like her servant to me. As @Andy1001 said, your friends are calling you whipped for a reason. They can see something about you that you can't see because it is hard to be fully self-aware at all times. That's why humans exist in community. We can see things in another that they can't see in themselves and vice-versa. I hope you are not "helping" her in return for sex because that is manipulative. If you clean around the house, do it because you want to not because you are expecting something in return. Because when you don't get what you are expecting in return you will get bitter and that will only further damage the relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks this is eye opening.
And no I don't do that all to get sex. I do it because it makes her feel loved. If it where a transaction than I would be back at "mechanical sex"
I will read the book


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

mjk101 said:


> About a year ago.


How was that? Where did you go. Just you two?


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I think you should stop doing things around the house. Stop cleaning, stop doing things that make her feel loved.

When she asks why, say "Guys don't like to do those things like girls do. It is only husbands in sitcoms and movies that do that stuff. Cleaning and taking care of the home is for women."


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Current theories of human sexuality suggest a "dual system." One for arousal, and another for inhibition. Arousal is like a gas pedal and inhibition is like a brake pedal. 

For women, most researchers tend to suggest they they have a much stronger system of inhibition than compared to men. This potentially allows them to be more selective.

So if your wife has things like stress causing her system of inhibition to lock down, no matter how much pressure you put on the gas pedal to get her aroused it is not going to work. She can also perceive your attempts to get her aroused as something that makes her feel inadequate for you which can cause frustration and stress, which can also cause her system of inhibition to lock down. In this context things that would normally be arousing for her may now seem like a source of anxiety which could cause her to become confused regarding what works and what does not regarding her arousal. 

Odds are her arousal could be in response to a form of sexual validation, such as knowing she makes you happy. The happier you are the easier she gets aroused. The more frustrated you are, the more she becomes inhibited. I'm not saying that is it, but most women actually do have a very strong desire to simply please their man. 

My advice would be to try and be easy to please, work on her confidence, and strive for an emotional connection during lovemaking and just allow her arousal to happen or not happen all on its on.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

Tasorundo said:


> I think you should stop doing things around the house. Stop cleaning, stop doing things that make her feel loved.
> 
> 
> 
> When she asks why, say "Guys don't like to do those things like girls do. It is only husbands in sitcoms and movies that do that stuff. Cleaning and taking care of the home is for women."




Lol I take that that would be a reply or counter to only women in porn enjoy sex? I think that's funny but I couldn't do that I'd feel bad


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tasorundo said:


> A kind of funny story about asking for sex: My wife will ask me if I want to have sex, and my general answer for wanting or agreeing with whatever the person is asking is 'sure'.
> 
> So, she asked one day if I wanted to have sex and I said 'sure'. She got upset and said something about how I should say 'YES!' and that saying sure did not make her feel wanted. The more I thought about it, her asking me if I wanted to did not make me feel very wanted either.
> 
> It is a funny thing, this human sexuality.


Why would her asking for sex make you not feel wanted? What would you want her to do instead?


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

There are clinics that specialize in increasing libido for both men and women. They also tailor made drugs for ED when the brand names ones do not work. I live in a very large retirement community that spans 3 counties. There are a lot of people looking to improve their sex life and having success getting medically treated.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How old are you and your wife?


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> How old are you and your wife?




We are 26 I know still young to be 7 years married


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You say that your wife orgasms. When does she do this? During intercourse? During foreplay? What percentage of your lovemaking is other than intercourse?


Could you please answer these questions?


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

Yes during intercourse. I would say that if any kind of foreplay happens she has a harder time having an orgasm. So our normal sex has almost no foreplay unless I insist/beg.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mjk101 said:


> Yes during intercourse. I would say that if any kind of foreplay happens she has a harder time having an orgasm. So our normal sex has almost no foreplay unless I insist/beg.


I thought this is what you were going to say. It's highly unlikely that she is having an orgasm. Only about 25% of women can have an orgasm ever during intercourse. Women are generally not built to do this.

If she will not even touch herself, she probably has no idea what an orgasm even feels like. And this might be one of the reasons that she does not particularly get into sex.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You're 26? None of your posts mention kids. Frankly I think you should cut your losses. It's been like this from the start and you never really hear about this kind of thing getting better. Sure you'll learn to cope. You'll try and fail to change her many times. But nothing will work. Soon you'll be 50 and full of regret.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

mjk101 said:


> We talk about our relationship often, I try to make sure that we are on track. I mentioned that I do anything for her. I really mean that. I took a job so I am home early and I can cook(she hates cooking) I clean and do everything but laundry (she doesn't let me do that, I guess she doesn't like pink) i did change a lot about myself (behaviour wise) to her liking. In fact my friends all make fun of me because I am "whipped" but that don't bother me as long as she is happy. (And according to her she is). This is not a new thing. We had this problem since day1 of marriage. ( we did not have sex before we got married)


Personally, having lived this myself with my ex-wife, becoming the person _she_ wants you to be is not conducive to attraction. It sounds counter-intuitive, but trust me, it's not.

I spent 14 years with a woman who wanted me to change this, that or the other thing. I happily complied, because I loved her, and wanted her to be happy. It made sense to me.

But it doesn't work that way 99% of the time. Over time, my ex wife lost pretty much all attraction to me. Why? Because I showed her that I wasn't my own person. I was an extension of her (and I totally was). Not just that, but there was no challenge for her. I never said no, never challenged her on anything.

One 'incident' sticks out in my mind. She once told me to, essentially, get a social life, get out of the house once in a while. So I picked up a sport I hadn't played in many years and joined a team, played once a week, occasionally went out for beers afterwards. All was good, until I was asked to join a second team, which I readily agreed to. Upon telling my wife this, she flipped out, ostensibly about the financial aspect of it (though we could more than afford it...). I was now out of the house TWICE a week for a whopping 2-ish hours each time, usually later in the evening after she'd be in bed, anyway.

But no, this was an issue. Once per week was enough in her mind. Twice was too much. Now it was "you're never home" :| I actually stood my ground with this one, and although she was not happy about it, I didn't care, probably for the first time in our relationship. I was doing something for myself, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Guess what happened? More sex. Even though she never let go of this (twice a year I had to pay up for the leagues, twice, and every new season I got an earful about it.)

She never stopped treating me like ****, and I did still ask 'how high' when she told me to jump, but I had this, and it resulted in more sex than I was previously having. Subconsciously, she respected that I was at least doing ONE thing for myself, even though it was just this.

In short, we need to respect our partners in order to be sexually attracted to them. There's a balance and a (very) fine line between being a good partner and being a butler/maid.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

Ok, wow this has been great. There are so many thoughts and a lot of info to think thru. Thanks for all the input. I will work on my part of this, I definitely want to stick together and Figur this out. Thanks all u guys.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, do your self a favor and read No More Mr Nice Guy as has been suggested. You, as other have suggested are the prototypical Nice Guy. I too was one. I had no idea. I thought I was only doing what was expected of me. I didn't find out about my problem until is too late. Once my services were no longer needed, she decided to leave. Now the woman I "served" loyally and faithfully for 24 years, the woman I loved with all my heart and to who I gave away so much of who I was, is gone. We are divorced. Unless you want to end up in the same boat as me, Read the book and start to retake control of your life. You may still end up in the same boat as me, but instead of coming as a broken, defeated, shell of a man, you can come on your terms as self confident, self assured man with purpose and a sense of self.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I thought this is what you were going to say. It's highly unlikely that she is having an orgasm. Only about 25% of women can have an orgasm ever during intercourse. Women are generally not built to do this.
> 
> If she will not even touch herself, she probably has no idea what an orgasm even feels like. And this might be one of the reasons that she does not particularly get into sex.


Agreed. 

I think it's damn near impossible that your wife who:
- was a virgin before your marriage 
- doesn't really masturbate
- has been having duty sex with you since day 1 of marriage
- does not engage in foreplay during sex unless you insist

is having orgasms during sex with you. Orgasm from PIV only is rare among women, orgasm from manual stimulation is much more common. If she doesn't know how to tough herself ... I don't want to say it but uh I think she's been faking these orgasms OP. She likely has little awareness of her own sexuality. 

How do you know that her orgasms are real? Especially considering she is your first as well? Have you ever seen her 'orgasm' on her own (with a toy, her finger etc)?


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You're 26? None of your posts mention kids. Frankly I think you should cut your losses. It's been like this from the start and you never really hear about this kind of thing getting better. Sure you'll learn to cope. You'll try and fail to change her many times. But nothing will work. Soon you'll be 50 and full of regret.


THIS THIS THIS!!! If you think it's bad now, wait until you have kids. Your 2x/week will become 2x/year if you're lucky, and she'll make her displeasure even more evident. Even if you don't have kids, it will just get worse over time.

It can get better, but only if you're prepared to do all the work. And it will only be better as long as you're doing the work to make it better. Read about "red pill" or "Married Man's Sex Primer". Basically, you have to do a lot of sex flirting to get her thinking about sex. If that's the kind of guy you are, it can work out well. But if that's not what you're into, it will feel like work and you're manipulating her to have sex with you.

If you're only 26 and don't have kids, you can do much better. You can find a great woman who actually wants to be intimate with you. The key is to find a woman who likes intimacy because she likes intimacy. It's not that someone makes her want it or that she's doing it because it's expected. Some women actually enjoy intimacy and someone like that will be a better match for you.

It sounds like you have a good relationship otherwise, so you might as well give it a shot to fix things. But don't stubbornly try for years and years as things get worse and worse.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

mjk101 said:


> Yes during intercourse. I would say that if any kind of foreplay happens she has a harder time having an orgasm. So our normal sex has almost no foreplay unless I insist/beg.


I am going to throw this out there because you mentioned that your wife does NOT like to be touched. She could have hypersensitivity to touch due to some form of autism, which often goes undiagnosed in women as it is considered rare. This would mean that less is more and she may very well be able to orgasm during intercourse due to her ability to have extra sensitivity. 



> Sensory sensitivity was first highlighted by Hans Asperger in 1944 (Asperger, 1944, 1991) and is being increasingly recognised as an area that can be very problematic for an AS individual. Sensory sensitivity can cause an over- or under-reaction to stimuli affecting any of the five senses, which include hearing, touch, taste, smell and sight... ...Sensory sensitivity, in this way, seems to affect more of the women I see than the men and it is often areas such as the nipples or clitoris that are most affected.


*This is likely not your case*, but sometimes thinking outside the norm can be helpful to give you that eureka moment with your wife as you work through things. The information quoted above comes from this article if you wish to read further.

AS in the Bedroom Room by Maxine Aston

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

when a woman quits wanting to have sex its either....

1) you just don't cut it in the bedroom. shes unsatisfied.
2) your not cutting it outside the bedroom. shes not emotionally satisfied.
3)your not cutting it as a provider.

1) you might think your the man in the bedroom. she might even tell you shes having orgasms to not hurt your feelings.

2)she want hand holding,words a affirmation, or what ever her love language is.

3) got to always be trying to better yourself. leading the family into success.

but you have to read her mind because shes to embarrassed,self conscious,or indifferent to actually come out and tell you.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

badsanta said:


> I am going to throw this out there because you mentioned that your wife does NOT like to be touched. She could have hypersensitivity to touch due to some form of autism, which often goes undiagnosed in women as it is considered rare. This would mean that less is more and she may very well be able to orgasm during intercourse due to her ability to have extra sensitivity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks badsanta I never thought about that. she does have a skin condition that she takes a cream/medication for but I don't know enough about medicine to say if she has autism. so I'll have to look into that.

I don't know how detailed I am allowed to be here let me know If i have to edit some of this out. 
I know that she has had orgasms because I got her to ejaculate "squirt" a few times (with penetrating alone). That was during her pregnancies. I know that it is very rare looked into it.because I couldn't believe that she doesn't like to be touched or touch herself.
I don't have any reason to believe that she is lying (she didn't yet and has no reason too) because there is times where she tells me that she didn't orgasm and or that she won't but would like to have sex for my sake. 
We do have 2 kids (preschoolers). It never came up before now because no one asked until now and because this was an issue before kids already.
As for being successful. I think that I am successful. This is relative: not if I compare with bill gates but very successful if I compare with the people around me at my age. 
As for emotionally I can only guess and trust but I feel that she trusts me and she does come to me with problems and issues.

As for me being bad in bed  I have nothing to measure by... if she would talk and tell me what feels good and not good what she wants and so on, I don't think I would have created this thread because I would know that she cares and wants to have great sex as well as feel good and make me feel good. That would go long ways to full filling my love language. 

Leaving her is not an option for me. Like I said in the original post is that I will do anything for her.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Just a heads up OP: squirting ≠ orgasm.

Any other signs? What happens when she orgasms while you're having sex? How does she respond? When was the first time she orgasmed during sex with you? If she doesn't touch herself, how did you two figure out how to give her orgasms?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Keke24 said:


> Just a heads up OP: squirting ≠ orgasm.
> 
> Any other signs? What happens when she orgasms while you're having sex? How does she respond? When was the first time she orgasmed during sex with you? If she doesn't touch herself, how did you two figure out how to give her orgasms?


Also, if they are having PIV, how does he know that it is "squiring" and not that she just produces a lot of lubrication?

Scientists are doing work to determine what 'squirting' is. Here is one in which ultrasounds and other tests were used. The "squiring" liquid turned out to be urine.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26772-female-ejaculation-comes-in-two-forms-scientists-find/

From my personal experience, a woman can produce enough liquid during PIV to look like she "squired" and not even get close to an orgasm. The two are not related. Just because you see it on porn does not make it real.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mjk101,

Why does your wife think that women don't enjoy sex? Was she raised in a family that pushed this idea? Is there a religious reason that she was taught this?

I think that you really do need to help your wife realize that most women love sex and want it often. That somehow she was taught something that might has worked as a young girl to keep her form having sex outside of marriage but it is a detrimental attitude in marriage. 

I do think that a sex marriage counselor who is also a sex therapist could help her a LOT. I think that your wife has no idea what sex is about and is afraid to experiment and find out because she was shamed into this attitude growing up.

Here is a book that the two of you would benefit from reading. I suggest you read it so that you know what she is reading. And I think she needs to read it to realize what sex, normal sex, is like.


*She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman*  by Ian Kerner


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I wish you could bring her here and let some of the women on this forum have a good talk with her. I really feel badly for women like your wife because they have been fed a lie about female sexuality and turned into women who will never have a satisfying sex life. Our social norms do this to a fair percentage of women.

Your wife is right that what is seen on porn is not normal sex. The women are paid to act the way they do. Porn sex is a fantasy.

But, in real life, a most women enjoy sex without putting on the porn star act.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

@mjk101 your story is very similar to mine. My wife acts like it's duty sex almost every time. It's awkward and boring, and she is not willing to work together as a team to fix the issue. We've talked to therapist, her OBGYN, and she has discussed this with her closest friends. The OB and friends made it even worse by telling her that (males and females) are wired differently. Which is true but didn't help my case of wanting more adventurous, engaged, please and pleasure attitude from her. So I now just tell her what to do but it's so robotic lol. If I want a BJ I say give me a BJ, I want doggie I say bend over, I want her on top I just tell her to do it. In the end I still have the feeling of not totally satisfied because she is not engaged. 

I'm just giving you a heads up it's not going to get fixed over night or at all. Therapy helps but only for a short time. 


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

It sounds like she is conservative and shy about sex, but she does the best she can. You seem to have a higher expectation from her which is causing your unhappiness and making you feel like she doesn't love going. She has orgasms so then she much be enjoying sex, she initiates 2x a week, that's great! You don't initiate anymore, that's a problem. So from the outside it seems like you stopped trying Bc you stopped initiating and she is doing the best she can even though she's not very comfortable with sex. 

When you ask her if she enjoys sex what does she say? What did she sAy when you told her you feel like she doesn't enjoy sex with you based on her facial expressions and lack of effort?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I'm trying to decide whether your wife or you are the problem. 

She initiates 2x a week. And you don't initiate at all. 

Your too much in your head. Stop judging her facial expressions and enjoy banging your wife. Enjoy her body, express your joy during sex. If she doesn't want to put in effort during sex thats her lose. Your lucky she initiates at all. 

I love sex. And sometimes my husband is really tired and maybe he does duty sex (but won't admit it). But my point is sometimes he's not as enthusiastic as other times, and same with me. But when I initiate... I plan on having a good time with or without my husbands enthusiasm and effort. As long as he's hard, I can have fun and enjoy sex. 
Obviously it's best when we are BOTH into it equally but the reality is, that is not always going to happen. Sometimes the other is tired and stressed or whatever. But the fact that they still put in the effort to have sex is great IMO.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I wish you could bring her here and let some of the women on this forum have a good talk with her. I really feel badly for women like your wife because they have been fed a lie about female sexuality and turned into women who will never have a satisfying sex life. Our social norms do this to a fair percentage of women.
> 
> Your wife is right that what is seen on porn is not normal sex. The women are paid to act the way they do. Porn sex is a fantasy.
> 
> But, in real life, a most women enjoy sex without putting on the porn star act.


Indeed. @EleGirl keeps making these excellent points. It is true that many of us women know very little about our own sexuality and rely on porn, opinions of men, generalizations about females sexuality and society in general. Our sexuality is just way more complicated and not nearly as straightforward as a man's. 

It took me a very long time to START learning about how my body worked. I had tried masturbating on many occasions and they had ended up in much frustration. It was only after confiding in my sisters and girlfriends that I realized this is absolutely normal and I had to essentially teach myself how to orgasm, how to enjoy being touched and how to enjoy oral sex. All of these things happened very gradually with significant effort on my part and my partners. 

As a woman, it's difficult if you do not have other women you can reach out to for advice and clarify things with. I agree that it would be ideal if she could be here. There are many women here who could help her, help herself.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

People need to take control of their OWN sex life and stop expecting the other person to "make it worth it" or whatever. This is also a porn mentality. Sit there while the action comes to you. That's not reality. You are the action. Go make the action happen. 

We have one spouse and we can only have sex with them. You need to make the best out of it and enjoy it. Stop judging it or measuring it and just enjoy it.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> Your too much in your head. Stop judging her facial expressions and enjoy banging your wife. Enjoy her body, express your joy during sex. If she doesn't want to put in effort during sex thats her lose. Your lucky she initiates at all.


I doubt you will get any better advice than that @mjk101 from anyone.

While the above advice comes from a woman, I am also fairly certain that women do NOT like to feel that their husbands are "too needy" or "too complicated" when it comes to having sex. Unless she is asking you for something in particular, just keep it simple and try to just enjoy the moment.

If you feel compelled to talk to her about sex and find out what turns her on, try watching a TV show like "Masters of Sex" about sex researchers and ask your wife questions about characters on the show. Odds are she will project how she feels while talking about these characters and you can start getting some better insight into her sexuality while discussing fictional characters.

Badsanta


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> People need to take control of their OWN sex life and stop expecting the other person to "make it worth it" or whatever. This is also a porn mentality. Sit there while the action comes to you. That's not reality. You are the action. Go make the action happen.
> 
> We have one spouse and we can only have sex with them. You need to make the best out of it and enjoy it. Stop judging it or measuring it and just enjoy it.


This sounds great and everything and I wish it was that easy. It can't be his OWN sex life when it takes two to make the fireworks blow. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Juice said:


> This sounds great and everything and I wish it was that easy. It can't be his OWN sex life when it takes two to make the fireworks blow.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk




I kinda disagree with this particular case. His wife is initiating twice a week. If the wife doesn't ever have sex with her husband than I would agree with you. 

Sometimes you need to make your own magic happen. I'm sure that the OP is exaggerating on this wife's behavior. I also think the way he is feeling is painting an unfair picture of his wife. 

Another important thing is, some women (probably like this mans wife) feel uncomfortable with sex. It's hard for them to relax. And when you are with someone who is obviously feeling you and is making it no secret that he is enjoying you, it not only builds up your confidence but it makes you relax and enjoy sex more. 

You can't have 2 awkward, uncomfortable, silent people having sex together. At least one person has to take charge and be enthusiastic. Not fake... enthusiastic. When my husband is quite and looking at my face it's so awkward. When he is into it, he makes me get into it, and vice versa. Sometimes one of us is not into it much because of circumstances but as long as the other person is who cares. 

Sex is not going to be porn star quality all the time. Sex doesn't have to be porn star quality to be enjoyable. The problem is... many men who watch a lot of porn, require a lot of stimulus and acting from their partner to sustain or to consider the experience enjoyable. Something tells me, this is the OPs problem.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

I get what you're saying and I agree with you. What if he's the one constantly taking charge day after day. That gets really old. 

Porn sex is not real, but there are some women out there that act like porn stars in the sheets (and it's fun! ).

On top of all this weren't they virgins before marriage?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Juice said:


> I get what you're saying and I agree with you. What if he's the one constantly taking charge day after day. That gets really old.
> 
> Porn sex is not real, but there are some women out there that act like porn stars in the sheets (and it's fun! ).
> 
> On top of all this weren't they virgins before marriage?


They may or may not have been virgins when they married.

A lot of the issue is the attitude about sex that a woman was taught growing up. A woman who was taught that sex is dirty or that it's something that men like and women tolerate will have a hard time getting over that.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't think the wife is initiating 2x per week. It sounds like she's going along with it to fulfill her obligations:



mjk101 said:


> I think my wife understands the importance of intimacy in a relationship and she fulfills her "wifely duties" by once or twice a week allowing me to have sex with her.


If she was initiating, that would be a very good sign that improvements could be made. But it sounds like she doesn't have any interest in sex and would probably be fine not not having sex at all.

People have brought up having her try to unlock her sexuality, which is good. But keep in mind that she just might be into it and there's no secret to be unlocked. As an example, think of an activity that some people really enjoy--like dancing. People have all different levels of enjoyment for dancing. Some people want to dance all the time, some will dance in certain situations, and some don't like dancing at all. If someone is totally ambivalent about dancing, it's unlikely they'll become a dancing fiend no matter what you do. Maybe they can learn to enjoy it more and do it more often, but they may never be someone who really looks forward to dancing and wants to do it all the time. 

As you work through this with her, keep that in mind to have reasonable expectations. It could be that she never becomes a sex fiend nor initiates. But maybe she can become more emotionally connected in the act even though you still have to initiate all the time. Essentially, she may never really become passionate about dancing, but she may be able to have more fun when you take her out dancing.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

@Juice But he's not taking charge if she is the one initiating. I understand what your saying too. Someone has to give though. 
You like when a girl acts like a porn star in the bedroom and I respect that. I love when my husband is so into sex and me and is such a nasty ass that he will lick every crevice on my body. I think we have similar points. One person has to be super into it at least. 
But... some women are just not capable of a porn star performance. You can't marry a shy virgin who doesn't like oral sex and doesn't like to be touched and masterbate and expect her to give a porn star performance. That's unrealistic expectations on his part. 
So he's left with a couple options... accept that his wife will never be porn-star like. And enjoy what he has and make the best out of it, aka become the porn star himself. Seek sex therapy to improve their sex life (which could be good or bad). Or divorce and find someone new.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

My view on sex therapy is that it's good on overcoming a trauma or good for certain medical conditions that make sex difficult. But IMO sex is a natural drive, it's hormonal. You either have the carnal desire or you don't. These people are 26 with no medical problems. Chances are, the sex is as good as it will get. And our opinion of our sex life can change, so I know that lowering expectations and appreciating what you have does make you realize what you have actually is really good. Sometimes our problems are in our head because we create impossible expectations, or think everyone else is having better sex, or comparing sex lives to other people/porn or we think the grass is greener on the other side. We need to stop searching for something better, and stop always trying to improve things and appreciate and love what we have. There are people who are happier with less than what we have.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> Someone has to give though.
> You like when a girl acts like a porn star in the bedroom and I respect that. I love when my husband is so into sex and me and is such a nasty ass that he will lick every crevice on my body. I think we have similar points. One person has to be super into it at least.
> 
> 
> So he's left with a couple options... accept that his wife will never be porn-star like. And enjoy what he has and make the best out of it, aka become the porn star himself. Seek sex therapy to improve their sex life (which could be good or bad). Or divorce and find someone new.


I personally like both options of giving and receiving.

OP read @katiecrna options she nailed it. Its tough and the journey is not fun, but if you're are as in love as you say you are you'll figure it out. You have to remember not to pressure her so much that she'll shut down. 

Oh and btw. Initiate the sex don't wait for her!


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

wilson said:


> I don't think the wife is initiating 2x per week. It sounds like she's going along with it to fulfill her obligations:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes I guess we need more clarification on that. It seems she initiates because this quote below. 




mjk101 said:


> I am so frustrated that I don't ask for sex anymore but just accept when she offers because I know that it's all out of a sense of duty.
> .




To me it sounds like she offers. It sounds like he has stopped trying because of how unhappy HE is with their sex life. To me, she is happy with her sex life because she still initiates and doesn't complain about the quality like the OP does. 

So there is an obvious discrepancy with what good sex is considered between the spouses. The feminist, man hater in me wants to think that because he mentioned porn a couple times that his expectation is higher than she is probably likely to deliver and he is frustrated and stop trying because the quality isn't where he thinks it SHOULD be. Then I hear she doesn't like oral and to me, no one can be trust who doesn't like oral. (Just kidding), and she sounds kind of prude. But prude people don't usually initiate. So I'm not sure what to think other than the OP is wrong for giving up trying.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mjk101 said:


> know her love language and i am kind of a romantic.


What is her love language?


mjk101 said:


> I can tell that she does not enjoy having sex by her face and her participation


How specifically can you tell? Does she say that she does not enjoy having sex?


mjk101 said:


> We had this problem since day1 of marriage. ( we did not have sex before we got married)


Why did you two not have sex before you married?


mjk101 said:


> She does not enjoy giving or receiving oral. She does it and she lets me (sometimes) but she does not hide the fact that she does not enjoy it. She also does not like it if I touch her or her touching herself(alone and together)


How do you know that she does not like having oral done on her and being touched? What does she say or do to tell you this?



mjk101 said:


> I am so frustrated that I don't ask for sex anymore but just accept when she offers because I know that it's all out of a sense of duty.


How often does she ask for or initiate sex? How does she go about this? How do you know that she only does it out of a sense of duty?


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

First of I'd like to thank all of u for the input. 
I also m a bit confused I don't remember saying that I want her to be like a porn actress. If fact I remember say something like : I'd me happy if she would tell me what she wants or doesn't want. I never wanted to do all the things that are done in porn. If fact I'd didn't even know that girl can squirt until it happened. I also mention that she didn't like me watching porn and I stoped. 
As to the initiating thing that is a long story so here it goes: 
In our first year of marriage I think I tried to initiate sex every day. Heck I probably could have had sex all day long. But I often got turned down at first not so much and then more and more. (all of that is normal) if i remember right i think out of the 7 nights in a week we had sex 3 times. Even at that time i noticed that her input for sex was basically to be there. With that I mean if I don't ask for a different position it won't change. If I don ask to be touched it won't happen. Oral is the same she don't ask for it. After the first year the frequency of us haven't sex went down and so did my trying to initiate. I finally only tried 1 a week and even then I got denied. (Sometimes) so that is when I sat her down and talked to her (more in depth than:"hey do u like it or what can I do differently.") I told her that I am watching porn now and how I feel and so on. By the end of the talk I felt guilty and promised not to watch porn and I kept my word. I that talk she said the she don't want sex. Sure once we are having it I like it" she said but nevertheless her input into sex did change. After that I told her that I feel bad asking or trying to get her to have sex with me if she really does not want it and that I would stop asking for it. After that talk she comes 2 a week and asks me"would you like to have sex" I say yes we have sex sometimes she even lets me touch her. So I don't think that I am asking for a porn actress.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

Her love language is acts of service.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

We did not have sex Out of religious reasons.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

We talked about the different things that we tried and I asked how she felt about that and if she liked it and the answer was. It was ok but she is not into it. 
When I counter with "I am probably doing it wrong is the something u liked more or less" the answer is I am just not that into it.


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

And if I ask about how she feels about our sex live she says that she is happy


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

When I ask how do u want to have sex: she said she likes PIV that is how she cums.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mjk101 said:


> First of I'd like to thank all of u for the input.
> I also m a bit confused I don't remember saying that I want her to be like a porn actress. If fact I remember say something like : I'd me happy if she would tell me what she wants or doesn't want. I never wanted to do all the things that are done in porn. If fact I'd didn't even know that girl can squirt until it happened. I also mention that she didn't like me watching porn and I stoped.
> As to the initiating thing that is a long story so here it goes:
> In our first year of marriage I think I tried to initiate sex every day. Heck I probably could have had sex all day long. But I often got turned down at first not so much and then more and more. (all of that is normal) if i remember right i think out of the 7 nights in a week we had sex 3 times. Even at that time i noticed that her input for sex was basically to be there. With that I mean if I don't ask for a different position it won't change. If I don ask to be touched it won't happen. Oral is the same she don't ask for it. After the first year the frequency of us haven't sex went down and so did my trying to initiate. I finally only tried 1 a week and even then I got denied. (Sometimes) so that is when I sat her down and talked to her (more in depth than:"hey do u like it or what can I do differently.") I told her that I am watching porn now and how I feel and so on. By the end of the talk I felt guilty and promised not to watch porn and I kept my word. I that talk she said the she don't want sex. Sure once we are having it I like it" she said but nevertheless her input into sex did change. After that I told her that I feel bad asking or trying to get her to have sex with me if she really does not want it and that I would stop asking for it. After that talk she comes 2 a week and asks me"would you like to have sex" I say yes we have sex sometimes she even lets me touch her. So I don't think that I am asking for a porn actress.


I don't recall anyone on this thread saying that you are asking for porn sex.

A lot of the talk and questions here are because people are trying to figure out what's going on , it's not finger pointing at you.

There is a chance that your wife is asexual. Some people have no desire for sex at all. They can enjoy it some when it happens, but they have no sex drive.

Some women have responsive sex drives. That means that they require their mate to start the sex in order for them to be sexually aroused. To me, from what you have been posting, your wife has a responsive sex drive.

But it is often hard to tell the difference between asexual and a responsive sex drive.

Or she just has not been 'set free' yet and just does not understand her own sexuality.

I get your frustration. I would hate to be with a man who is like your wife, and yes some men are. WE get women posting here married to men who are like your wife.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

It sounds like 2 roommates trying to oblige each other. 

What is your day to day like? Any hugs and kisses? Any flirting, sexting? Any non sexual affection? 
You said your romantic. What things do you do that are romantic? Do you guys go on dates? Do you still "date" her?


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

As for the porn thing growing up all I knew and used was a sears catalog ( the underwear section) it was not until after I was married and unhappy with sex that I looked for more porn.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mjk101 said:


> When I ask how do u want to have sex: she said she likes PIV that is how she cums.


How long does it take for her to cum from PIV?

If you take her at her word, she's one of the 1% or so of women who come exclusively from PIV. IT's very rare. That's all she needs. So she does not understand a need for anything else.

Again, taking her at her word, you are unhappy with who she is when it comes to sex and you want her to be someone she is not. Your being unhappy with her about this would make her want sex less and less. It would turn sex into a chore.

I just do not see a way to fix this unless you are willing to tell her that what is going on is not ok and unless she works to fix this, you are not staying in this marriage. To fix it would require that the two of you go to a marriage counselor who is a sex therapist. Why? Because you need someone who talks to BOTH of you to help figure this out.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Can you answer my above questions @mjk101

We're trying to help you we just need more info


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mjk101 said:


> We did not have sex Out of religious reasons.


What were the religious beliefs that she was taught about sex? Do you know?


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## mjk101 (Mar 20, 2017)

We hug all the time we flirt. We don't sext. We cuddled. As for romance. My mother in law loves the kids and so I use that as often as possible to go on dates. Flowers and I write the occasional letters. She loves sending me notes along to work and so on...
If my original post I already said that we have like the perfect life's. Except for sex.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mjk101 said:


> Her love language is acts of service.


Did you read the 5 Languages of Love? Is that where this comes from?

There are two books that are much more detailed and thus a lot more help than that book. It might be a lot of help for the two of you to read them and do the work together that they say to do.

"Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs".


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Religious. Not interested in sex. Doesn't enjoy anything you have tried. No idea what she might enjoy.

You have zero chance of having a satisfying sex life with your current wife if you cannot get her to see a sex therapist to discuss (i) that sex between husband and wife is beautiful and precious and sanctified by God, (ii) that her enjoying herself is a blessing to herself and her husband, and (iii) that the therapist can help your wife to discover things that do feel good. Same zero chance if your wife refuses to do the homework and exercises the sex therapist assigns. Does not make your wife a bad person if she refuses. But it makes her a bad partner for you if you desire to have a satisfying sex life with her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mjk101 said:


> We hug all the time we flirt. We don't sext. We cuddled. As for romance. My mother in law loves the kids and so I use that as often as possible to go on dates. Flowers and I write the occasional letters. She loves sending me notes along to work and so on...
> If my original post I already said that we have like the perfect life's. Except for sex.


How many hours a week do you and your wife spend alone doing date-like things, just the two of you. By date-like I mean spending time together doing things that you both enjoy and the two of you concentrating on each other? They can be things like just talking about your feelings, cuddling, out to a dinner date, even sex. 

Things like watching TV or a movie do not count or doing separate activities in the same room or close by do not count.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Get the Book the Five Love Languages. Figure out your wife's Love Languages. Make sure the things you do to please her are aimed at the things that provide her with a big emotional payoff. You can waste alot of time and energy doing things that don't do much for her, then being angry and frustrated that she is not responding to your efforts with the things you want from her.

But if she has been brought up to think that sex is something dirty and evil and wrong, no matter how well you treat her she isn't going to want to "reward" your good behavior with sex. Because you don't respond to loving gestures from your family by dumping manure on them. So if she sees sex as wallowing in (much less being asked to consume) manure, no amount of good behavior on your part will lead to a better sex life unless and until she unlearns that sex is bad and something to be avoided at all costs.

The payoff to her from making the effort (besides learning to enjoy sex - which may not seem like a positive to her at this point) is to eliminate her internal conflict. Right now she probably feels enormous stress. Her husband is pressing her to engage in behavior she sees as bad and wrong and dirty. She loves him and wants to please him but she feels uncomfortable responding positively to his requests. She doesn't like disappointing him and feels like a failure. if she learns to see sex with her husband as something good and pure and beautiful, the inner conflict will disappear. She might be willing to invest in a process to reduce her internal conflict even if she is not convinced that learning to enjoy sex is possible or desirable.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

It just seems like you are friend-zoned.

My advice is... you have to be the go getter. You need to increase the sexual tension. Although she should, the reality is from what you wrote that she isn't going to so that means you need too.

Start kissing her more. Start complimenting her in sexual ways. You need to set the mood and tone. When she's cooking, come behind her and kiss her neck and put your hands on her hips. When you hug her touch her butt while whispering something sexy in her ear... "you have such a nice ass", "hmm the things I wanna do to this ass", "God I just love your body". 

Sexual tension is important and can be created easily with some effort. Just act like she is the sexist thing in the world and you are dying to have sex with her. Don't be her b*tch husband who does the dishes, and rubs her feet while eating ice watching teen mom. Be her husband, her MAN. Nothing is sexier than a man that takes what he wants, who is confident, and who takes initiative. Of course this has to be done in a smooth and sexy way, not in a forceful I don't know what I'm doing kind of way. 

When she's in the shower, go join her. 
Touch her sexually but don't have sex with her if that makes sense. Touch her butt. When your cuddling, put your face in her breasts for a second. Kiss her breasts over her shirt then say something sexy or make a sound like mm. Then get up and do your own thing. That stuff really sets the sexual tension. I even do stuff like this to my husband all the time and he loves it. Just like I love it when he does it to me.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Saying do you want to have sex is one of my biggest pet peeves. My husband does this and it drives me crazy!!! Lol from my experience sex that occurs after being asked is usually not as good and passionate. But sex that occurs organically, without talking about it is always amazing. The unexpected, unplanned sex is usually the best.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> It just seems like you are friend-zoned.
> 
> My advice is... you have to be the go getter. You need to increase the sexual tension. Although she should, the reality is from what you wrote that she isn't going to so that means you need too.
> 
> ...


These are great techniques but can back fire. As I mentioned before his wife sounds a little like mine. I try to come up behind her and try to build sexual tension and I get in trouble. I can't kiss her neck because it tickles and can't grab her booty because she thinks it's big and it jiggles. Mind you she's very small and petite with confidence issues.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed - if you are lucky enough to be in a relationship where that ever happens. I honestly can't remember when we last had unplanned sex - I can only remember 1 time from about 20 years ago. 



katiecrna said:


> Saying do you want to have sex is one of my biggest pet peeves. My husband does this and it drives me crazy!!! Lol from my experience sex that occurs after being asked is usually not as good and passionate. But sex that occurs organically, without talking about it is always amazing. The unexpected, unplanned sex is usually the best.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Women drive me crazy sometimes. I don't know what to say to men who have wives that hate to be touched. I find it funny that women spend so much time getting ready, doing their hair, putting on uncomfortable clothes all to look nice, and get annoyed when their husbands love the way they look and want to have sex with them. It's an oxymoron. 

The only thing I can think of from my own experience is when my husband is smelly, sweaty, or has bad breath. Barf... get away from me! Those 3 are repellants to any women.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Agreed - if you are lucky enough to be in a relationship where that ever happens. I honestly can't remember when we last had unplanned sex - I can only remember 1 time from about 20 years ago.




Aww I'm sorry. I hate to hear that.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

@uhtred I don't know if your a man or a women but please I beg you have sex unexpectedly tonight!! Put the moves on your spouse and get it done!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> Women drive me crazy sometimes. I don't know what to say to men who have wives that hate to be touched. I find it funny that women spend so much time getting ready, doing their hair, putting on uncomfortable clothes all to look nice, and get annoyed when their husbands love the way they look and want to have sex with them. It's an oxymoron.


Let's be sure to quality that as SOME women. A lot of women, probably most, love to be touched and love sex.



katiecrna said:


> The only thing I can think of from my own experience is when my husband is smelly, sweaty, or has bad breath. Barf... get away from me! Those 3 are repellants to any women.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I'm male. 
My wife absolutely does not want spontaneous sex. She is quite LD, and when she does want sex it is essentially always between 3 and 5pm on sunday afternoons. She is happy for general physical attention, random kisses, hugs, back rubs etc, and gets many. But when that gets at all sexual, she will stop it. 

She seems to put no value at all on spontaneity. 

Sad, but I'm convinced it can't be fixed. (other threads on this here, but no solution).





katiecrna said:


> @uhtred I don't know if your a man or a women but please I beg you have sex unexpectedly tonight!! Put the moves on your spouse and get it done!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

People who enjoy sex have trouble imagining what it is like to not particularly want it. I can't imagine not wanting fun passionate sex with an enthusiastic partner, but there are many women and men for whom sex really is more like a chore - despite the best efforts of their partners. 





katiecrna said:


> Women drive me crazy sometimes. I don't know what to say to men who have wives that hate to be touched. I find it funny that women spend so much time getting ready, doing their hair, putting on uncomfortable clothes all to look nice, and get annoyed when their husbands love the way they look and want to have sex with them. It's an oxymoron.
> 
> The only thing I can think of from my own experience is when my husband is smelly, sweaty, or has bad breath. Barf... get away from me! Those 3 are repellants to any women.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> Saying do you want to have sex is one of my biggest pet peeves. My husband does this and it drives me crazy!!! Lol from my experience sex that occurs after being asked is usually not as good and passionate. But sex that occurs organically, without talking about it is always amazing. The unexpected, unplanned sex is usually the best.


 @katiecrna while I strongly agree that his wife or most any women feel this way about being asked for sex, one has to step back and acknowledge in situations when intimacy is becoming complicated there has to be a system in place that allows a couple to designate a safe and nurturing times to work on intimacy. He is going to have to find "some way" to communicate with her.
@mjk101 there are some indirect ways you can ask your wife to have sex AND work on trying to make things more natural for her. You have mentioned that she does claim to enjoy sex, so you should ask her that if she has noticed an ideal time of day that she is the most receptive towards enjoying sex? This can give her an opportunity to tell you for example that she is just not a morning person and that no matter how hard you try in the mornings that nothing will ever happen. She may also say that by the end of the day that she may often be too fatigued most of the time and have little or no patience left to try and get herself into a playful mood. As a result she may find that lunchtime is her ideal time, because she is energized and in the mood to enjoy a break.

Once you establish that, you can learn better how to plan a romantic moment with her that actually stands a fair chance of being enjoyable. 

You can also talk to your wife during a non-intimate moment about asking her what things if any that she finds annoying during sex. She may tell you that she gets really annoyed when you ask too many questions DURING sex. And if you are hesitating to try something new or different, you can run those ideas by her outside the bedroom to see if she has any objections to any of them. You may find that your wife is completely OK with trying anal sex, but that it would only be OK under very specific conditions like while playing around in the shower so that any hygiene issues are easily mitigated. This way the next time you are being playful in the shower, you don't have to ask if you want to go exploring a little. I am using this unusual example just to demonstrate how you can ask more questions outside the bedroom, so that when an intimate moment happens that you have very clear knowledge about what is OK and what is not so that you can be more playful without asking questions. 

Regarding oral, perhaps that is something she feels comfortable exploring immediately following a shower so that she is not self conscious about her hygiene and can relax. Meanwhile if you find yourself getting intimate immediately after she has been working in the yard, you know not to even go there. But you have to ask her these things, and NOT during sex!!!!!!!!!! Ask during pizza and watching sports together on TV.

Badsanta


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Do you think both of you talking to your church leader will help? Many religions have strict rules about sex before marriage, but after marriage the story is usually very different. If she grew up with oppressive negative impressions about sex, that may be carrying over. It might help to do some counseling with your church leader so she can understand how important intimacy is to a successful marriage.

You sound pretty understanding with reasonable expectations. The fact that she initiates is a very good sign. Even though it might not be the sex you envision, be sure to let her know how much it means to you that she is intimate with you. I think she can get to the point where she sees intimacy as a way to strengthen and increase the bond of love between you.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

If I'm allowed to make reference to another forum, there's a good, extremely pro-sex (because God is!) Christian site called The Marriage Bed. I would try to get your wife reading there. Especially in the "sexually refused" section. When my wife read in there her eyes were truly opened. My wife learned that sex for husbands is so much more than a physical release. 

You will also learn that some women are entirely _responsive_ sexually. My wife is this way. She (and your wife) don't have the drive of a man. BUT, once they start getting into it (following the husband's lead) THEN desire kicks in. Learning this changed everything for me. There have been times when my wife started with almost an eye roll when I initiated to, with proper attention, she was BEGGING for me to enter her :wink2:

Like you, years ago in frustration from being denied, after a big talk about sex, we agreed we'd only have sex when SHE would initiate. BIG mistake. Why? Because she's RESPONSIVE. It actually made things much worse because then she felt pressure to initiate, knowing that I was dying for release. Pressure leads to resentment. Bad road to be on!

Don't know if you're a Christian, but if you are, your standard would be Scripture, which teaches the man to lovingly lead his wife. If you're doing it right, she will respond. And she will appreciate & respect you for it.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Everyone is different.

My experiences are not like yours. I knew I wanted sex in marriage. I told my wife it was vital and required, just a few days after we started dating, that if she wanted to keep me happy she had to keep me sexually satisfied. She was a virgin, and really had no idea, but she accepted the challenge.

In any case, in going over this thread, one thing of note is my wife seldom initiates sex. When I said never, she said she thinks she remembers doing it once, in the 43 years we've been married. I think who initiates sex has little bearing on the issues. My wife never says no, and that works for me.

We agree with those who think your wife has never had an orgasm. From your description it is just not possible she could have. We think the fact she has never had an orgasm is part of why she has become so disinterested in sex.

My wife and I fully agree with the other posters who say you need to be less accommodating. My wife cannot stand a man who is accommodating. Weak, as she calls it. Power turns her on, wildly turns her on. Yes, if I were to ever ask her if she wants to have sex she would probably be turned off. I never have, though, so I can't really be sure. I just strip her and take her whenever I please. I've verified over the years that works extremely well for her. The more forceful I am, the better. She has used her safe word twice, in 43 years. It was a road I had not expected, but I followed her responses.

Not everyone is the same, but there is so much you have refused to explore. Perhaps your wife needs a level of excitement you both refuse to even acknowledge could be allowed.

You never know, unless you start to explore. And she may deny it, even if she responds to it. She may find her body responding to things she thinks she should not respond to, and the dissonance can cause issues. 

I pushed my wife beyond the dissonance because I reminded her I had demanded she had to sexually satisfy me every day if she expected to keep me. She melts before, and truly loves, power.

Everyone is different.

Good luck.


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