# Can I trust her?



## cjf1985 (May 29, 2017)

My wife and I have been married 7 years been together for 10. I'm 32 she's 27. We have two children together. In March of 2016 her father passed away and it seems like since then she has been a completely different person. But in November is when the bar hopping and pictures with a guy from High School that she met there start appearing on her phone. I would have never know if I wasn't using her phone. She said she was just hanging out with her friend and the guys were there. Ok W/e. Her response though was that she feels as though she didn't have to explain herself. Then I see that she has been messaging this kid. Nothing crazy but still hiding stuff. 

Now since March, she has been once a week going out to her co-worker/Friend house, ( Ill call her B) who is single btw. And then always ends up going to the bar and doesn't get home until 2-3 Am. The night before Memorial Day we couldn't get a babysitter at 7pm, which was the time she informs me that "B" is having crabs. We leave her mom's house and then soon as we get home and put our baby to bed she's out the door. Didn't come home to 6am. I went through her phone on the one opportunity I had and see her girl "B" had plans of going to the bar and then on Snapchat she's friends with and chatting with the same High School guy friend we argued about before. I don't know if I'm crazy, don't trust her. It just seems she wants to spend the least amount of time around me as possible. Any thoughts friends?


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

If you were 100%, irrefutably sure that she is not cheating in you, would her behavior be ok with you?


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Your wife is exhibiting all the signs of cheating. It's possible that she's not, but the consensus on here will be that you have the right to start investigating. 

Please take a look at the standard evidence post: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

This will give you some strategies on how to start investigating. Most importantly, do not let her know about your suspicions or confront her too early. This will cause her to hide her activity even better. If you do discover bulletproof incriminating evidence and decide to confront her, do not let her know the source of that evidence.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Never ignore your instincts, and always ignore guilt over not giving trusted people the benefit of the doubt when circumstances no longer warrant trust. 

Investigate, and do so surreptitiously. If your investigating finds nothing, know when to stop investigating your wife to stay sane. Endless investigation can lead to insanity; consider yourself warned!

Assuming your wife is not cheating (may not be the case), you minimally need to have a conversation with her about why she's suddenly living the life of a single person, despite being married with kids. Her choice of friends has a lot to do with this, so don't be afraid of urging her to seek out friends that are also married with kids. This will reduce her being pulled into a lifestyle that's incompatible with her own.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Judging strictly by her covert actions along with the verbiage about "crabs," I cannot help but think that you can most definitely rest assured that the "crabs" of which she's speaking doesn't really go all that well with melted butter or "cokctail" sauce!*


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

She may not be cheating yet but all this talking with the other guy, pictures with him and going out until 6am isn't going to lead to anything good. Yes she could just be reverting back to her "party" days as a way to cope with the feeling from the lose of her father, like a way to escape from her real life for a little, but having this other guy involved in it is not a good thing. I know, I've been in a similar situation as this. I never found that my wife ever physically cheated but she did have an inappropriate relationship with another man.

Tell her that you don't want her that you're not comfortable hanging around with this guy anymore. Keep an eye on things but do not say anything to her unless you have real proof of something going on. If she finds out you're spying or keeping tabs on her it will just drive her away.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I forever changed after my dad died. It amplified all the things in my life that I was unhappy with already. When he died, I felt like so much inside me died with him, and a lot of it was hope. Hope that I could continue to endure my unhappy marriage. That is when I finally left.

So can a death of a parent have a huge effect? Undeniably. But was she happy in your marriage before hand? Had she ever told you she was unhappy or talked about things she needed YOU to change in your shared life? I had been begging my ex for 15 years already. Most women do give a lot of warnings before giving up.

Also, she's been with you since she was 17. A lot of people who settle down so young, regret it and kinda go crazy later with being wild. This may be part of it too.

Follow the steps in the link provided above and you will probably get all your answers. Welcome to TAM, we are here to help honey.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Do you have a highly trusted friend whom she does not know? Send him or her to the bar to watch your wife's actions. You could hire a PI but that would be expensive.

Hiding a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) in her car and/or where she makes private phone calls in the house is usually a good way to catch cheaters. Perhaps less so with your wife. If your wife is cheating, and we don't know if she is, she may be just getting together with this high school guy or other men at the bar. This may not be the regular lovey-dovey kind of affair where she has many text messages and phone calls with the affair partner. So, I would say if the money is not too painful, invest in a good VAR (Sony, about $75) in her car. But I think her cell phone may hold more pertinent data if you can pull off text messages, snapchats, etc.

Carefully search her car and the house. Leave everything as you found it so she doesn't know. Look in her drawers, closet, etc. Inside shoes, unused purses, pockets of clothing, etc. In all the little compartments in the car including in the trunk. You're looking for love notes, hotel key cards, condom wrappers, secret cell phone, or any other hard evidence. My guess is you won't find anything at this point, but it is worth doing due diligence.

Also review all the cell phone records and credit card records.

Look at the Facebook or other social media of her friends, especially this single woman and the high school guy. Check out the photos and posts to see if there are clues there what is going on at the bar.

Her behavior is certainly on the wrong path to a close healthy marriage. This behavior has been going on for a few months now. It could be just a phase, and she is not being disloyal. Maybe she is watching over her single friend at the bar and vicariously watching the singles life. Best case scenario is she is going through a re-evaluation of life, sort of like a mid-life crisis. If that is the situation, you two need to talk about realigning your lives away from drudgery of obligations. You each need some personal space and some hobbies or activities which excite you. You need some family activities that are fun for you. Taking the kids to soccer practice is not a family activity!

If she is not cheating but is in this re-evaluation phase, I think some marriage counseling could be very helpful. You would see the counselor together as well as some individual sessions. Your wife might benefit a lot from it, and you as a couple could benefit a lot, too.

For now, stfu and don't say anything about suspicions. I hope your snooping turns up nothing. We've had a few members here with similar situations who found out their spouse was not cheating, and they turned their marriage around as a result. Snooping can be very positive.

If you do find evidence of cheating, don't say anything to your wife. Come here first to vent and then get some excellent advice on how to proceed.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Frankly, even if she's not cheating on you, her behavior is in no way acceptable. Once a week, your wife is out bar hopping with her single friends, whooping it up until the wee hours or even dawn, and also chatting up other men. There's nothing remotely marriage-friendly about that. If she wanted to be single and childless, she shouldn't have gotten married and had two children. She's making it clear that she doesn't respect either the marriage or you. Possible cheating aside, are you really okay with how she's behaving?


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Rowan said:


> Frankly, even if she's not cheating on you, her behavior is in no way acceptable. Once a week, your wife is out bar hopping with her single friends, whooping it up until the wee hours or even dawn, and also chatting up other men. There's nothing remotely marriage-friendly about that. If she wanted to be single and childless, she shouldn't have gotten married and had two children. She's making it clear that she doesn't respect either the marriage or you. Possible cheating aside, are you really okay with how she's behaving?


Exactly how I was thinking. I would have no interest in continuing a marriage if my wife went out bar hopping with her friends every week until the early morning hours.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

In denial you'll look for all kinds of excuses to justify unacceptable behavior.

There are none.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

A married women should not be out to till morning with single friends and male acquaintances from high school. Make sure you have hard evidence before you confront but this needs to be addressed and put to a stop right away. If you let her keep doing this, you can be pretty sure she's going to cheat on you. How would she like it if right after you come home from work, you go out with your single friends and other women till late at night. I don't suppose she would be on-board with that.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I suppose I've always been possessive and controlling. When my wife and I got married neither of us wanted separate nights out. While my wife may have been submissive enough to have tolerated me doing stupid things, I would not have put up with her going out.

After we were married about 13 years Mary went out with her sister, but it only turned out to be a mistake. So ever since then any time Mary wants to go out she has to convince me to escort her.

I know lots of people believe in the Girls Night Out and Boys Night Out thing, but we never did. And I can't understand why someone would put up with what you described no matter what. 

First late night would lead to a discussion about boundaries. Second late night would have been divorce papers. I suppose I might do a three strikeouts thing for the sport effect. 

Yeah, my wife has really screwed up, but at least she works very hard to just do one screw up a decade.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

No, you can't trust her. 

All the same ingredients are here that lead to my divorce. Death of a parent, Bar hopping, Old guy friend from high school, secret texts and photos, drinking, hanging out with single girlfriends, getting home really late, and little or no interest in family or spending time with me. 

Dude, you've lost control of the situation. You must act soon and decisively or this will not end well.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

She is cheating, she wants to cheat, she has lost interest, and she seems like a bad mom.

gtfo


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Decimated said:


> No, you can't trust her.
> 
> All the same ingredients are here that lead to my divorce. Death of a parent, Bar hopping, Old guy friend from high school, secret texts and photos, drinking, hanging out with single girlfriends, getting home really late, and little or no interest in family or spending time with me.
> 
> Dude, you've lost control of the situation. You must act soon and decisively or this will not end well.


Yep. Sit her down and tell her that it appears that she wishes to be single, and how does she propose the best way to go about making that happen. Watch how she responds.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

2-3am... 6am... single person.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

My matriarchal grandmother's death was disastrous for my mother's family. 

It turned out that everyone was living these lives in large part to please her. Once she had passed, the 'masks' came off. My mother left my father, within a few months, my aunt left her husband, and another aunt and her husband dropped everything and left town...

The problems had been there for years, it's just that since my grandmother never tolerated any dissension, people became expert 'rug sweepers' instead of dealing with their respective issues.

Not saying that you haven't, but you gotta man up on this one, your family may be on the line. Get her into counseling and insist that she stop going out. I would suggest approaching this with equal parts compassion and firmness (resolute without any semblance of either anger or judgement).

This has nothing to do with trusting her. These are cries for help (though she herself may not be aware of it). Again, this has nothing to do with trusting her or not: she is out in open waters and needs her man.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
People handle death very differently based on their level of maturity. It is possible that the death of your father-in-law was "freeing" to your W on a subconscious level and she now feels that the "restrictions" are off and it is time to live life. Another possibility is that she placed great store in how her father considered her and she lived her life to make him proud. Again, now that he is gone it is time to live it up.

In any event her behavior now is unacceptable. She is a mother and a wife and bar hopping until the early hours of the morning is irresponsible and unreasonable. She must consider her family and not just herself. She could easily be involved in an accident or worse as the hours of mid night are not known for being populated with society's finest examples.

She is showing little regard for her H, her children and her father's memory. It may be time for you to present her with a choice to either behave as a wife and mother or to behave as a single, careless, immature bar hopper. I can almost assure you that if she continues on this path she will eventually find herself with another man (or woman) and you will find yourself in a very unenviable position. It may already be too late but if you do not act with some haste it definitely soon will be.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Hell no you can't trust her. If she hasn't already had sex with the other guy, she will soon. Her friend is toxic to your marriage and her behavior is steering your family toward disaster. Get ready to jump ship.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

cjf1985 said:


> It just seems she wants to spend the least amount of time around me as possible.


This is hard evidence she has already exited your marriage. Ignore it at your peril.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I may be cynical because two of the three loves in my life cheated on me. I was young and naive and bought every story they told me. I found out about my ex fiancee because my best friend knew one of the guys she was having sex with and told me. The ex girlfriend had to work late or go out with her single girlfriends to the local club. She would always have sex with me when she came home and a lot of sex each day out of guilt. Only when I figured out that the faint taste in her vagina was semen, did she confess to me. 

I believe that every spouse should have a healthy dose of mistrust. Spouses supposedly in love will lie convincingly and make their spouses feel like they are paranoid. I was very naive when I was young. Once I wised up, no more cheating problems. If it smells like cheating, looks like cheating or fells like cheating, it is probably cheating, especially if the spouse is finding reasons to be out of the house for an evening. Most times a gut feeling is all you need.

I look at it this way. Whether my wife is cheating or not, if I felt that she was cheating due to her odd behavior, I would still suffer the same emotions either way, so I would have to put an end to it. I could not live with someone who I thought was deceiving and lying to me. I do not want a knot in my stomach every time my wife was not with me. At the very least, tell her that it is inappropriate for a married women to go to places where there is a lot of drinking and men looking for sex. I picked up almost every sex partner at a club by drinking with them and dancing suggestively. To me, dancing was foreplay and saw many a married women acting like she was single. They enjoyed the attention and once their inhibitions were lowered by alcohol, they did as most humans do, make bad decisions.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Having the wife have a "girls night out" is okay... within reason.

When it happens a lot, and very late into the evening, with women who are single - I think that stirs up the OLD memories of freedom. And having sex with another person becomes easy and quick. How long does it take to do a quicky in the bathroom, parking lot, in the ally? Or drive to his place and come back?

Maybe nothing has happened... but her actions increases the likelihood of a future situation.

Lets see.. drunk women, lower inhibitions, easy ability without your knowing... what you don't know, won't hurt you...

She needs therapy... you both should do couples therapy.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

james5588 said:


> My matriarchal grandmother's death was disastrous for my mother's family.
> 
> It turned out that everyone was living these lives in large part to please her. Once she had passed, the 'masks' came off. My mother left my father, within a few months, my aunt left her husband, and another aunt and her husband dropped everything and left town.





NoChoice said:


> OP,
> People handle death very differently based on their level of maturity. It is possible that the death of your father-in-law was "freeing" to your W on a subconscious level and she now feels that the "restrictions" are off and it is time to live life. Another possibility is that she placed great store in how her father considered her and she lived her life to make him proud. Again, now that he is gone it is time to live it up.


These are both good and believable explanations for her new behavior. I firmly believe this is what my XWW went through. She was wearing a mask while her mother and father were alive. Once they passed, she reverted back into who she really was all along. She no longer had any fear of disappointing them. She was now free except for some small details...me and our children. She was always a little selfish and emotionally immature. Afterward, she became apathetic and totally self-focused.


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## Warrior73 (Jun 25, 2017)

Vinnydee said:


> I may be cynical because two of the three loves in my life cheated on me. I was young and naive and bought every story they told me. I found out about my ex fiancee because my best friend knew one of the guys she was having sex with and told me. The ex girlfriend had to work late or go out with her single girlfriends to the local club. She would always have sex with me when she came home and a lot of sex each day out of guilt. Only when I figured out that the faint taste in her vagina was semen, did she confess to me.
> 
> I believe that every spouse should have a healthy dose of mistrust. Spouses supposedly in love will lie convincingly and make their spouses feel like they are paranoid. I was very naive when I was young. Once I wised up, no more cheating problems. If it smells like cheating, looks like cheating or fells like cheating, it is probably cheating, especially if the spouse is finding reasons to be out of the house for an evening. Most times a gut feeling is all you need.
> 
> I look at it this way. Whether my wife is cheating or not, if I felt that she was cheating due to her odd behavior, I would still suffer the same emotions either way, so I would have to put an end to it. I could not live with someone who I thought was deceiving and lying to me. I do not want a knot in my stomach every time my wife was not with me. At the very least, tell her that it is inappropriate for a married women to go to places where there is a lot of drinking and men looking for sex. I picked up almost every sex partner at a club by drinking with them and dancing suggestively. To me, dancing was foreplay and saw many a married women acting like she was single. They enjoyed the attention and once their inhibitions were lowered by alcohol, they did as most humans do, make bad decisions.


"I believe that every spouse should have a healthy dose of mistrust."
I agree with you. I don't think it is wise to ever trust someone 100 percent. Being obsessive is one thing, but I don't think there is anything wrong with checking up on your significant other once in a while. A few years ago my wife was e-mailing a guy that I didn't know and telling him about our marriage problems. She was upfront about talking to him, but didn't tell me she was discussing our problems. I decided to check the e-mails for myself and found that they were discussing problems in both marriages. It was also clear from some of the things that this guy said that he was in the early stages of planning some kind of seduction. I put a stop to the conversations real quick and she was completely naive about where their conversations could lead. Needless to say I do check up every now and then to make sure that there is no more contact.


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