# I'm so lost. About sex, and everything else.



## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

Hi.  I'm going to apologize in advance for the book that I'm about to write 
I don't really know where to start. I guess the best way is to describe how I am in our marriage. I love to laugh, and just have fun. I'm slow to anger, and quick to forgive (to a fault) I treat my husband like a king. (Even though at times, he doesn't deserve it) I've never denied him sex. I'm going to be blunt here, I am pretty much pathetically "easy"when it comes to my husband. lol I'm very rational, and level headed. I'm really not tooting my horn here. I'm just trying to give you an idea of how I am in the marriage. I'm not perfect, or anything. But, I will say, I'm a damn good wife. I really am being realistic here.

Now about him. Just to say in advance, I'm not complaining here (I'm not a nag lol) I'm just stating facts. My husband (I'm just going to let it all out here.) My husband has a bad temper, he's easily set off, he's quick to anger, and SLOW to forgive. If I do, or say one thing wrong, I WILL pay for it, (at the very least) the rest of the night, no matter how many times I apologize. There's more, but I'll just leave it at that.

I will say, we get along great, as long as I can live in the moment, and not think about how things really are. He says he's perfectly happy with me. But truthfully, I'm not happy with him. He's admitted to being a selfish person, but does nothing to try to work on it.

Here's where the problem lies...... As far as sex goes, we do have great sex. The problem is, it's not enough in frequency for me. And I can't talk to him about it. When I do, he gets mad at me. I don't nag him, and I'm very careful how I bring it up, but he instantly blows up, and it never ends well. Honestly, I'm not really allowed (maybe that's the wrong word) to try and talk about how I feel, because it always ends the same way. He gets mad at me, and he becomes so irrational. I keep a cool head because I don't want to "feed the fire". So now I'm to the point where I won't even bring it up,(or any of my feelings for that matter.) But, it's still bothering me. I try to "live in the moment" and just forget about it, but my feelings about the whole issue come to the surface. 

If I'm lucky, we have sex once a week. That includes oral for HIM, not me. He's admitted to being "lazy" when it comes to having sex. We do very little (IF ANY) foreplay. As I stated earlier, I'm pathetically easy to please. And not to get to graphic here, I'm always "ready". As far as once a week, (IF I'M LUCKY) is just not enough for me. I've told him this, and he always turns it around on me, and says it's because I'm some sort of nympho, and that I have to have it every day (which I don't have to have it every day) And he gets mad at me for it. 

Another part is, he masturbates. Which is fine, so do I. But I do it because I HAVE to. I would prefer to be with him. He says it's just "easier." And uses the excuse that he's "lazy." As I said, WHEN we have sex, it's great. And I know he enjoys it, because I'm there, and I can see how much he's enjoying it. So I don't understand what the problem is, and he won't talk about it. He says there's nothing wrong, but yet, here we are, once a week, TOPS.

The part that does piss me off about him masturbating, is that I'm MORE THAN WILLING to do whatever he wants, when he wants, or even HOW he wants it. He knows that I really want to be with him, and he just gets himself off. 

There's so much more to this. Part of me wonders if he does this just to be in control of me. There's a history of physical abuse. (But that was years ago) But now, I kind of feel like I'm being mentally abused. He manipulates, he lies, and he keeps me in the dark about how he feels. And doesn't allow me to say how I feel. Because if I do, I will pay dearly for it. And I know that that's a form of manipulation also. 

So, I guess my question is, what should I do? I'm at an all time low. I feel this relationship is give and take. I give, he takes. I can only "live in the moment" for so long. Something's got to give.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
You are very good to him. What does he do to deserve you?


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

That's a good question. I wish I could answer it.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I guess the question, are you willing to stick things out if nothing changes?


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

Your best position here is to be ready to walk away forever and mean it. It is a win win for you. Either you move on -- best case scenario-- or, he realizes what he is about to lose and makes an effort to please you. 

but you have to MEAN IT. really, consider just leaving him.


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

I have so far. But at this point, I'm contemplating my options. He's never going to change. I've never tried to change him. But I was hoping he'd want to on his own. The sad part is, I know he loves me. He never takes responsibility for himself. I'm at the point where I don't think I can take much more. The sad part is, I can't talk to him about it.


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## RayJakeman (Jun 23, 2015)

He is just abusive in a different way. From your post he has been physically abusive to you in the past and by crushing your self esteem (note you even apologize at the start of your post) he is manipilating you even sex to control you.So you live in the moment which translates to an actual fear of him.So you can continue to tiptoe round him scared to set him off or what you can do is to get tough and hold the line. Tell him one major thing that is not acceptable and if he starts shouting, walk away and remain silent until he approaches you. Don't give in. Do this consistantly as unpleasent and hard as it is.Be a curt and rude as he is. If he is pleasent be pleasent back. If he strikes you at any point , leave him.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think its worth careful thought. There are men who would treat you the way you deserve. Be sure that what you feel is actually "love" and that you are not staying out of some sense of duty.

Ask yourself - if he left you tomorrow, but somehow things were arranged so that your financial / home situation didn't change, would you feel sad or relieved? Why?

I think the first step is to really understand your own thoughts, figure out what you want. Then you can figure out how to get there. Just remember that you can't make him a fundamentally different person from what he is.

Don't wait too long. I know a woman who has been married for 30 years and been very unhappy for the last ~15. She just never quite gets up the energy to leave - though she could. Its very sad - she is a wonderful person and her husband does not treat her well.




Juicy Fruit said:


> That's a good question. I wish I could answer it.


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

Morcoll said:


> Your best position here is to be ready to walk away forever and mean it. It is a win win for you. Either you move on -- best case scenario-- or, he realizes what he is about to lose and makes an effort to please you.
> 
> but you have to MEAN IT. really, consider just leaving him.


 Thank you. I understand what you're saying. I always say what I mean, and would never "threaten" without following through. But the thing is, we have kids. I feel kind of "stuck."


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Juicy Fruit said:


> Thank you. I understand what you're saying. I always say what I mean, and would never "threaten" without following through. But the thing is, we have kids. I feel kind of "stuck."


Kids are definitely tough. Does he treat you poorly in front of the kids. If you are unhappy, do you think your kids see this? At some point it is not healthy for your kids to be in this type of environment


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

RayJakeman said:


> He is just abusive in a different way. From your post he has been physically abusive to you in the past and by crushing your self esteem (note you even apologize at the start of your post) he is manipilating you even sex to control you.So you live in the moment which translates to an actual fear of him.So you can continue to tiptoe round him scared to set him off or what you can do is to get tough and hold the line. Tell him one major thing that is not acceptable and if he starts shouting, walk away and remain silent until he approaches you. Don't give in. Do this consistantly as unpleasent and hard as it is.Be a curt and rude as he is. If he is pleasent be pleasent back. If he strikes you at any point , leave him.



Thank you. I know I sound whimpy, but I'm pretty blunt. lol But, that hasn't gotten me anywhere. 
As far as my self-esteem, it is crushed. I'm not afraid of him, I just know saying or doing anything doesn't end well, and I get nowhere, so I figure "what's the point?" 

I do "walk away" when he starts having tantrums about something. Or if he's in a bad mood, he'll try and start a fight with me. I just ignore his behavior, and he stops trying to "start in" with me. So that has gotten better over the years. But as far as bringing up the subject, he gets mad instantly, Which will get me nowhere. The pattern will always be the same. Even if I walk away.


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Kids are definitely tough. Does he treat you poorly in front of the kids. If you are unhappy, do you think your kids see this? At some point it is not healthy for your kids to be in this type of environment




He doesn't do it in front of the kids. As I said, we get along well. He becomes irrational when I bring the subject up. So I'm careful on when I bring it up. (The kids aren't around when I do)


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think its worth careful thought. There are men who would treat you the way you deserve. Be sure that what you feel is actually "love" and that you are not staying out of some sense of duty.
> 
> Ask yourself - if he left you tomorrow, but somehow things were arranged so that your financial / home situation didn't change, would you feel sad or relieved? Why?
> ...



Thank you for the reply  You gave me some rally good points to think about (and I will) As far a waiting too long, I think I'm already there. The sad part is, he's complicated. He's not a bad guy in a lot of ways. But when it comes to this, he's EXTREMELY hard to deal with.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Have you guys gone to counseling or have you even brought up the idea with him? He is abusing you, whether physical or mental, and that behavior needs to be put an end to immediately. If he is not willing to talk to you about, go to counseling, and most importantly CHANGE, you need to get yourself out of that situation.


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

People don't change easily, especially not lazy people. 

You are not stuck. My ex and I have kids too. She was similar to your husband to me, except it was more like every 2-3 months as far as sex. 

I could not be happier now that we are not married. She was miserable to be with, and this is without the abuse. 

There is a better place out there for you.


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Have you guys gone to counseling or have you even brought up the idea with him? He is abusing you, whether physical or mental, and that behavior needs to be put an end to immediately. If he is not willing to talk to you about, go to counseling, and most importantly CHANGE, you need to get yourself out of that situation.



Thank you for your response. I do agree that counseling would be a good thing, but he wouldn't go for that in the past. He thinks I should just deal with it. And if I did that, everything would be fine. Unfortunately, it would be fine for him only. This is why I feel so lost. I've tried everything. 
As far as the abuse goes, he would won't ever lay a hand on me again. I know he won't.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Juicy Fruit said:


> There's so much more to this. Part of me wonders if he does this just to be in control of me. There's a history of physical abuse. (But that was years ago) But now, I kind of feel like I'm being mentally abused. He manipulates, he lies, and he keeps me in the dark about how he feels. And doesn't allow me to say how I feel. Because if I do, I will pay dearly for it. And I know that that's a form of manipulation also.





Juicy Fruit said:


> Thank you for the reply  You gave me some rally good points to think about (and I will) As far a waiting too long, I think I'm already there. The sad part is, he's complicated. *He's not a bad guy in a lot of ways.* But when it comes to this, he's EXTREMELY hard to deal with.


Also, please stop saying he is not a bad guy. Based on what you wrote about how he treats you (physical and mental abuse in the first quote above) HE IS a bad guy. Accept that, stop making excuses for him or apologizing, and it will become a lot easier to move on putting yourself first.


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Also, please stop saying he is not a bad guy. Based on what you wrote about how he treats you (physical and mental abuse in the first quote above) HE IS a bad guy. Accept that, stop making excuses for him or apologizing, and it will become a lot easier to move on putting yourself first.



Thanks. You're right, I do make excuses for him. Maybe it's a coping mechanism on my part.


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

Morcoll said:


> People don't change easily, especially not lazy people.
> 
> You are not stuck. My ex and I have kids too. She was similar to your husband to me, except it was more like every 2-3 months as far as sex.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Morcoll. That's good to know. I'm glad you're happy.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

While this advice seems very counter intuitive, you might want to try encouraging him to masturbate, and even go so far as to get him some toys to self-explore with. The purpose of this would be to try and open a door into having an open conversation about "why" he enjoys to masturbate rather than being patient and waiting to share his desire with you. I promise you it is not laziness, there is something he likes that he is just not being open about and sharing with you.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Its never too late - at least as long as you are alive. If you are unhappy now, 10 years from now you will wish you did something. 

I guess that is another way to look at it. Relationships, marriage etc are supposed to make you happy. If you are not happy, then think seriously about changing them.



Juicy Fruit said:


> snip
> As far a waiting too long, I think I'm already there.
> snip


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

You're married to an ass. I would tell him that the party is over. If he refuses to allow you to express yourself, then you need to call him on the carpet. Next time he says that he's lazy, I'd agree with that and let him know that you loathe lazy people. Time to make him feel uncomfortable. Baby Huey needs to grow up.


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You're married to an ass. I would tell him that the party is over. If he refuses to allow you to express yourself, then you need to call him on the carpet. Next time he says that he's lazy, I'd agree with that and let him know that you loathe lazy people. Time to make him feel uncomfortable. Baby Huey needs to grow up.


Okay, I have to admit, your first sentence made me laugh, (at first) You'd have to get to know me to understand why I'd laugh at something that's not really funny. I just wanted you to know that I chuckled at that. So, thank you. 
On a serious note, I know I'm married to an ass. I actually did say something tonight. He's a pretty negative person, at times. He started complaining to me, about me, and I let him have it. He then said, he can never win an argument with me. I told him that it was because he uses his words to manipulate the situation, and my words are from the heart, i don't need to win, I have the truth, and that's why I'll always be able to run circles around his ass in an argument. I let him know that I'm on to his tactics, and that he needs to stop the manipulation game. I told him i was sick of his complaining about everything, and I asked him when the last time he remembers saying anything nice to me. He couldn't answer that. (It's been a long time) I've been doing some thinking. I know part of it is because he feels intimidated by me. He has said (in the past). That he doesn't deserve me, and you know what? He's right. 
I'm dealing with a person who ripped a soap dish out of the bathroom tile because the soap wouldn't stay on it. This is the mentality I'm dealing with. Ugggghh 
Anyway, he's on the couch. (He's mad at me) And you know what? He can stay there. Tonight, I have a king size bed all to myself.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Juicy Fruit said:


> Thank you. I understand what you're saying. I always say what I mean, and would never "threaten" without following through. But the thing is, we have kids. I feel kind of "stuck."


Is this the idea of marriage you want to role model for your children? Is he short tempered with them too?

When I first came on here my husband was very short tempered. And I would also say he was very selfish. He was never physically abusive though. I digress... He has health issues that cause him a lot of pain and he has gotten on medication for pain/depression and he hasn't snapped at me once since. Part due to the medicine and part due to a concerted effort on his part.

I am a lot like you describe yourself and some of what you describe sounds like my H prior to his change and I would have said "We get along great! ..._as long as everything is going exactly the way he wants it_." 

I didn't want to admit it to myself but I was extremely unhappy. I also do not want to tell an adult to change. But once I admitted to myself how unhappy I was, I started to find our relationship intolearble and I started telling him "I am not happy." Just matter of factly. He could make any excuse he wanted for his disposition and give any rationale he wanted for why I should be happy, but I just matter of factly continued to inform him that I, indeed, was not happy and that I was becoming obsessed with thoughts about how unhappy I was. And not to confuse my polite demeanor with everything being ok.

And he went to his doctor to get medicine to help in his case and consciously changed how he treated me. There are still a lot of issues but things are so much better. If he had not changed I think I would have left him and I think he realized that. Though we don't have children.

It is no way to live to walk on egg shells all the time. If you stop accepting his mistreatment of you, he may surprise you and rise to the occasion - you sound like one hell of a wife and he probably does not want to lose you. (If he does, you will probably make some other many who appreciates you very happy someday...)


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

You must be married to my ex. 

Sex every Sunday..... very predictable sex. I tried things.... lingerie was laughed at, oil was "too messy", etc... I got tired of being rejected and just resigned myself to once a week. 

No talking about anything "real". Ever. "I don't wanna talk about that." "I'm too tired to talk." "I don't know what you're talking about, you sound like your crazy sister." 

Soooooooooooo..... considering the kids (I had 5) I stayed and stayed, made a life for me and the kids, invited him to be a part of it ALL THE TIME. Which is stupid that I had to invite the husband and father to participate.....which he often turned down. We had a life in spite of him. He was no help on the parenting front. BUT.... with all those kids, I could not figure out how to support myself and them, without him (knowing that his contributions would be iffy, definitely not dependable). I went to school, became a teacher....so I would have all the same days off as the kids (less day care issues) and a steady paycheck. I still could not figure out how to leave and be ok on a teacher's income. 

I suggested marriage counseling. He said no thanks, since I'm the one with problems then I should just go. So I did. (DO THIS.... IT HELPS!) He tried to pump me for information but I played dumb and/or didn't share anything with him. The counselor gave me some good advice..... She said, "You probably feel powerless since he won't talk about anything that is important to you, or regarding the marriage. In reality, you have ALL the power. BECAUSE he won't talk to you, you are free to do as you please, make up your mind to what will work for you. Either learn to be satisfied with the status quo, or figure out how to leave." Seems pretty simple but I think I needed someone to say this all out loud. She also suggested that I give the marriage a mental time limit. Don't tell him. I gave it a year. 

To be continued....


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

WorkingWife said:


> Juicy Fruit said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you. I understand what you're saying. I always say what I mean, and would never "threaten" without following through. But the thing is, we have kids. I feel kind of "stuck."
> ...



Thank you for your reply. I'm so glad it's better for you. 
I can't explain to you how negative (at times) he is. His response, (on more than a few occasions) has been that maybe he should just be alone because of how he is. Looking back, I wonder if that was a form of manipulation. 

I know what you mean about not walking on eggshells. I have told him that I won't do that. I am pretty blunt, but I ignore my own feelings just for the sake of getting along, because I know what will happen if I say something. Nothing will be worked out, and he'll mad at me. At least if I don't bring it up, we get along. 


As far as the kids go, they see him and I laughing and joking. We get along great, as long as I don't express if I'm unhappy about something. And when I do express myself in that way, I make sure the kids aren't around.


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

SunnyT said:


> You must be married to my ex.
> 
> Sex every Sunday..... very predictable sex. I tried things.... lingerie was laughed at, oil was "too messy", etc... I got tired of being rejected and just resigned myself to once a week.
> 
> ...



Wow!! I really hope it works out for you. 

I totally get what you mean about not talking about anything real. It's so frustrating. Especially because I just want to calmly, and rationally talk to him. It's not an attack or anything. And he gets so irrational. 
Someone had mentioned in an earlier response that it was manipulation. And they're right. That was his way to avoid it. He'd deflect, and nothing ever got solved. I'm not going to allow him to that anymore. I just have to figure out how. lol
If I figure it out, I'll message you.  
Thanks for responding. I wish you the best of luck!!!


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

Juicy Fruit said:


> Here's where the problem lies...... As far as sex goes, we do have great sex. The problem is, it's not enough in frequency for me....
> If I'm lucky, we have sex once a week. That includes oral for HIM, not me. He's admitted to being "lazy" when it comes to having sex.


Hmm...Is he physically fit?


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## Juicy Fruit (Nov 16, 2014)

MountainRunner said:


> Juicy Fruit said:
> 
> 
> > Here's where the problem lies...... As far as sex goes, we do have great sex. The problem is, it's not enough in frequency for me....
> ...



He's better (physically) now than he has been. He's 6'4 and 250 pounds. I don't know if 250 is considered healthy at that height, but he looks good, and holds it well. 
If you asked me that a year ago, I would have said no. He was 300 pounds, and his blood sugar was awful. I did research, got him some "alternative" supplements to regulate his blood sugar, and I got him a Fitbit. I encouraged him to start walking, and now he's 50 pounds lighter, and his blood sugar is perfect. 
As for me, I've always been energetic, him, not so much (but he's definitely improved)


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

.....about six months into "my time limit", he left. He snuck out. We were so distanced at that point that I didn't realize he was "gone" for three days. I just figured he was out doing his own thing. He said he "couldn't take it anymore". Which is a laugh, he had it made. 

So, after 23 years.... he did me the best favor he could have! The oppressive weight in the house was lifted, no more walking on egg shells. No more trying to figure out HOW to tell him anything. I quit talking to him. And life got gooooooooooood. No more living life around him. No more negativity. No more wondering where he was or when he'd be back. 

He tried to talk to me a few times about it. He made no sense. He wondered if I was having an affair. (Geez, when? I was overwhelmed with 5 teens and their issues). He was sorry he'd hit me that one time (No way, he never hit me....I have to wonder if he was thinking of someone else!). He said he'd take the boys. (LOL, he had no idea. Didn't know what schools they went to, who their doctor was, what they DO, what their issues were...) I THOUGHT he'd be a decent weekend daddy, just have fun and no responsibilities...but no, that never happened. 

All in all. My life improved a zillion percent. I moved 1200 miles away, met an awesome guy, got married, bought my first house, etc.... We have an awesome blended family, 8 kids and 8 grandkids.... our home is a positive place where the kids can come by any time and they do. Sunday dinner is with everyone here. Sex is ridiculously awesome.....every single day! Communication is wide open. Appreciation is the norm. And it's been almost ten years now. Life is good!

The point is.... you can't change him but your life COULD change in awesome ways. It's not all doom and gloom if you should decide to split.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Juicy Fruit said:


> I can't explain to you how negative (at times) he is. His response, (on more than a few occasions) has been that maybe he should just be alone because of how he is. Looking back, I wonder if that was a form of manipulation.


I think it is. "I'm just this way. I'm not good enough to be with someone else." is a total cop out. What does that really mean? I am going to deliberately suck at being a partner so that you don't expect anything of me. And make it clear that I have no intention of improving so you stop asking anything of me." 

It reminds me of the biggest jerk I ever recall dating. My neck hurt real bad one day and I asked him if he could rub it for me. He said "I'm not good at rubbing necks, I'm too strong and I hurt people." And then he dug his hands into my neck muscles super hard and painful to prove to me that he couldn't rub my neck for me because he did it too hard.

If you like fiction, I recommend reading the book "Big Little Lies" by Liane Moriarty. There is a marriage in there where they are so happy - laughing and in love like you describe - 90% of the time... I loved the book and I thought it did a great job of exploring the conflict the wife had confronting the dark side of her marriage when the good times were so good.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Juicy Fruit said:


> I'm dealing with a person who ripped a soap dish out of the bathroom tile because the soap wouldn't stay on it. This is the mentality I'm dealing with.


OMG that sound like something I would do. It is the small things that often set me off and my wife looks at me like I am from another planet. 

Here is an example, I decide to take care of something that is a rather large project. I spend about thirty minutes getting things set up and start prepping meanwhile I am juggling other projects that are getting behind because of the current project I chose to give attention. Then there is one very small thing that costs less than a dollar that I need to get started, but it is missing. The last time it was seen was when my mother in law was going through things cleaning up and borrowed this needed item in order to use it in a manner for which it was not designed (e.g. like using a screw driver as a hammer). I ask everyone in the house where it is and know one even understands what I am looking for and just gives me this blank stare like I am an idiot. My rage builds, I loose it, and now I am hell bent to find this missing object even if I have to tear the house apart. I make a huge mess, eventually give up after wasting another thirty minutes of my day and decide to drive an hour to the store to get this one dollar object that has completely ruined my day. Then the car is out of gas as I go to drive to the store. By the time I get back all my projects are past due. I calm down slightly and finally start getting stuff done.

Then later in the evening as I am helping get the kids ready for bed is when the power adapter for my external hard drive mount connected to the hair curlers under the sink in the bathroom. This is completely unrelated to my problem earlier but will be needed for my next project. Of course the power adapter is now broken as it was not intended to be jammed into the device that heats up the hair curlers.... uggggGGG Then I go to get a shower and the soap does not stay on the soap dish and falls into the drain where is gets mixed with a blob of my mother-in-laws hair. 

So I too rip the soap dish off the wall! Then everyone just stares at me like I am some raging idiot that can not control his temper and my wife gets mad at me and I have to sleep on the couch, thus my current location as stated in my profile. 

A broken hearted cheers, 
Badsanta


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Juicy Fruit said:


> ... He has said (in the past). That he doesn't deserve me, and you know what? He's right.
> ...


The next time he says this tell him: You're right. And I don't deserve you either!

I think you shine too bright for him and the withholding sex is a way for him to take the wind out of your chipper little sails. 

My H and I both like our senses of humor, though they are slightly different. He would unfailingly interrupt me with his own joke to step on the punch line every single time I tried to make a joke or recount an amusing anecdote. EVERY fricken time and then he would laugh and say "what, I couldn't resist, my mind is just too quick with my own jokes." (He has completely stopped doing that. But I'm still not quite myself yet.)

I would also say "he's not a bad guy!" because he never came across like he was *trying *to be mean or uncaring, but the results were that I definitely felt worse about myself when I was with him. He kept me off balance. 

I also wanted to tell you - 
I think there is something in the dynamic that just changes when you are serious about leaving. They feel it and sometimes they find Jesus in a hurry. Prior to that, they know. They just know you aren't leaving and they can continue to be a selfish, lazy, petulant, moody, self indulgent ass.

Oh. And another thing (Sorry, I am really relating to you & your H) My H would also refuse to have a serious conversation with me. He simply would not engage. Anything serious I tried to talk about, he'd make a joke, change the subject, say he was tired/in pain/etc. 
- we could talk later. But later never came. Never. 

I used to give in to his avoidance tactics but started being like a little bull dog. Not laughing at his jokes. Coming back to my point when he tried to distract. Just dead serious saying "this is important to me." no matter how much he tried to dismiss/devalue what I was saying. 

Good luck and if you want to turn things around, check out Marriage builders - Love Busters
in particular the angry outbursts your H has are not acceptable. They are a form of abuse and something he CAN control:
Angry Outbursts


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

1. Stop tip toeing around this ass! You say he gets mad easily and stays mad, BFD! Let him get mad, but sister you gotta say your piece and let the chips fall where they may.

2. Stop having sex with him, entirely! Do NOT give in to having sex when the person your having sex with shows so little care and concern for you. Go get yourself some toys and take care of yourself in grand style, I can recommend a few super awesome insertables/vibrators that will knock your socks off! Let him know you're no longer going to have sex with a man who thinks you should accept, "I'm just lazy" as an excuse for being a crappy ass lover!

3. Start doing things for yourself and your kids without consideration for him. Make plans without him, see friends with out him, take the kids places without him. This is to create a distance, a physical distance at times, in order to learn to seek and find happiness without a man who clearly doesn't give a sh!t about your happiness!

4. If you feel you MUST give this marriage another shot, you're going to have to out your big girl panties on and BRING IT UP and keep bringing it up until you feel heard. If that means you giant wussy pants of a husband gets angry and pouts for a month, let him! The less you buy into his temper tantrums the sooner, if ever, he will figure out if can't manipulate you with this tantrums!

Girl, this man is someone you should have thrown back into the sea a LONG time ago and you know it! Your own personality is what is allowing you to make excuses and to minimize how badly he treats you. Being slow to anger and quick to forgive does not mean we must continue to allow people to hurt us. "Yes I forgive you but I'm still not having sex with you because you're still the same man who hurt me. No I don't excuse you just because I've forgiven you, get your sh!t together or get out!"


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

intheory said:


> Sunny,
> 
> Since you guys had 5 kids (wow), how were you able to afford to go to school for 4 years; if that's not too personal. How on earth did you raise 5 kids, go to school, study, and do all the household stuff. That really is incredible. Did you go part-time? Did your ex pay for your schooling.
> 
> You must have tons of energy and drive.:smile2:


My ex will say (to this day) that he put me through school. But no. He was such a schmuck, I couldn't figure out how to leave him and there was many times that I should have, and would have. I KNEW I had to do something to be more independent. And later...when he did leave, my pay was just enough to equal bills. I needed his contribution for food, gas, etc... He paid, different times, different amounts....it was weird. He'd call me and ask, "Do you need some money this month?" Ya jerk, I need the amount we agreed on. I did move in another single mom and her two kids to help with the rent. Odd time....but it worked out in the end.

We were pretty poor. He worked, he was self-employed... I watched other kids in the day time for extra cash. I got Pell grants which paid for tuition and books, and I ended up taking out some student loans (which I totally regret and am still paying for. At the time I THOUGHT that ex and I would pay them back together....) School came easy, I'd take the kids to the park and study while they played. I couldn't count on the ex to be home on time to watch the kids so I had neighborhood teens/babysitters just in case. Many times I took a kid or two with me and let them color in "mommy's school'. they loved it. Sometimes my brothers would watch the kids, and sometimes ex would "babysit" (as if you babysit your own kids!). I went full time (it's only actually 12 hours per week), skipped the summers, took some video courses (wasn't online back then). I don't know about energy and drive....but I'm pretty practical and just do what needs to be done. Going back to school when they were little was the best idea I ever had....well, one of them! It paid off and still is. 

I took online courses once I started teaching, to get my Gifted Ed certification....and about 2 years ago I got my Masters degree in curriculum! (My school district paid for that!) I think I'd be a professional student if someone would pay me a salary for it!

Where there's a will, there's a way.... right?


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

Juicy Fruit, here are some of the bullet point quotes that I took from your thread that I felt were significant:



Juicy Fruit said:


> - My husband has a bad temper, he's easily set off, he's quick to anger, and SLOW to forgive.
> 
> - He gets mad at me, and he becomes so irrational. I keep a cool head because I don't want to "feed the fire". So now I'm to the point where I won't even bring it up,(or any of my feelings for that matter.) But, it's still bothering me. I try to "live in the moment" and just forget about it, but my feelings about the whole issue come to the surface.
> 
> ...


It seems as though you have been verbally beaten down to the point of raising the white flag. And now he knows that you will back down, hence he keeps doing it. You are, passively enabling him. Your sex life is THE LEAST OF YOUR PROBLEMS. In fact, I'm a little surprised that this was how you opened your thread. Your problem is not that your drive is higher than your husband's. Your problem is that you and your husband have developed a pattern of behavior that enables him to be abusive and lazy on your relationship and keep you from having to deal with the real problems. No, sex is the least of your problems. You and your husband have a RIDICULOUSLY dysfunctional marriage that requires serious therapy/counseling. The real tragedy is that your children will CONTINUE YOUR LEGACY in their marriages!!!! Granted, we here on TAM are only getting your side of the story (that last quote: "*He started complaining to me, about me, and I let him have it. He then said, he can never win an argument with me. I told him that it was because he uses his words to manipulate the situation, and my words are from the heart, i don't need to win, I have the truth, and that's why I'll always be able to run circles around his ass*" makes me wonder if you are not guilty of some of the same things that you are accusing your husband of). I'm not trying to take sides here, but it would be beneficial to hear his side of the story. But alas, I do not want my soap dish ripped off my shower wall. Bottom line is that you are not happy. Your children are having your dysfunctional marriage patterns imprinted in their heads. You need to take action ASAP. You are going to have to make some ultimatums in a non-confrontational way. I recommend sending him an Email stating how you currently view the marriage and your absolute deal breakers. Tell him in said Email to meet you in a neutral location (preferably a marriage counselor's office) to discuss the situation in a CALM manner or you will consider divorce. He will not believe or respect your needs/requirements/wishes if you do not take serious ACTION. If he tries to hit you, you call the police and have him arrested. It will help if divorce is required. I feel bad for you, but you need to address you and your husband's dysfunction before you can even touch your sex life!


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## Kitt (Jun 3, 2015)

Read Stop Walking on Eggshells by Paul Mason.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

In regard to the kids.... I am sooooooooooo glad that they are able to witness a strong, loving, caring, mature relationship as a role model. The Mother's Day and Father's day cards that I and my H, their step-dad get always have personal notes that are positive... They really, really needed to see a good man who is helpful, caring and RATIONAL. 

Just saw that soapdish post. That is totally my ex. He yelled at the weather, b*tch about who moved his hat, how in the F*CK can there only be 3 ice cubes, anything could ruin his day.... irrational (altho he'd argue that point to his death...which would be someone else's fault!)


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Hi Juicy Sorry for what ur going through. You say he used to be physically abusive, he is verbally, mentally and emotionally abusive and you wonder if he's trying to control you? I'm gonna go with yes. I urge you to get therapy and yes it may be time to move on but I know that is easier said than done, especially with kids. I hope things work out for you for the best. Good luck


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I used to have a bad temper and things would set me off, kind of like Badsanta. 
I could tell it was ruining my marriage.
I keep a list of stuff I need to do on a piece of paper that I carry around with me, always.
I know, very "old school." I refuse to buy a smart phone.

Anyway, on that list I have these words written down and rewrite them every time I make a new list.

1. Never complain about anything
2. Speak to yourself more
3. Listen to yourself less

It has really helped me keep my temper in check. I came to the conclusion that life is very unpredictable and no matter how much I try to make it predictable I cannot succeed 100% of the time. I take a deep breath, read my list and move on without getting angry.

I did change, but because I really wanted to. I was repulsed by my own anger and would honestly do most anything to never get angry again.
I will tell you that having my wife tell me "I don't think I can take it anymore" and also listening to her intently describing how I was acting and what it was doing to our family really helped me change.

Your husband can change, but you have to tell him exactly what the deal is and he has to know that you will NOT take it anymore. Unless that happens, nothing will change. If he really cares for you he WILL change, if not, you will either stay and be miserable or leave and hopefully find happiness.


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