# GF puts too many conditions on sex.



## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

My long-term GF has many hangups about sex, you can read about them in my other thread. But I am trying to figure out what is really going on here and if there is any chance of fixing it. Maybe I'm the weirdo and this is how people really have sex.

The problem as I see it is that our sexual encounters seem like they follow some weird unstated regular expression or flowchart.

1. She hates pauses and dead time. For example, I am ready for PIV and I am putting the condom on. Sometimes the packaging is a bit tough to tear and then I have to unroll it a bit to find the correct side. I am very efficient and this won't take more than a few extra seconds. But with each second passing I can sense that she is growing impatient. Sometimes she will vocalize her unrest and tell me to do faster.

She will allow some time to change from missionary to doggy or her on top, but again it has to be done in a timely manner.

2. She will only let me do oral on her AFTER we have PIV, never as foreplay, she says it tickles her. Similarly she will only allow me to use my fingers at the same time I give her oral.

3. She will only give me oral BEFORE having PIV, just for a minute or so.

Because 2 and 3 must hold true at all times, 69 is out of the question

I have tried several times in the past to deviate from these strict rules but she gets annoyed and sometimes her libido will drop to zero and she calls quits. I cannot understand what's holding her back and if there is something I can do about it.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

And when you talked to her about this, what was her response?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

There is nothing that YOU can do about it. This is all on her and she has to decide if her boundaries will lead to her happiness or not. if her boundaries lead to her happiness, why should she even think about changing?

Your boundaries, the areas in which you feel sexual expression is right, natural and normal, are wider than hers and you are therefor being asked to fit within her narrowly defined set or right, natural and normal. Your boundaries have changed in order to accommodate hers. The question is, can you continue to find happiness within her narrowed set of boundaries?

*Disclaimer*
This is all predicated on this relationship being one of adults, mature people who have been in a monogamous committed relationship for a while. If you don't fit into this standard, my advice above doesn't count. You may not expect anyone to change their sexual boundaries in the absence of a monogamous committed relationship.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Sounds great! The great natural flow and passion building sex life.

Sounds like you have a window in which you can operate. It's not as narrow of a window as some of the others have, but I'm aware of this style of sex.


----------



## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

PBear said:


> And when you talked to her about this, what was her response?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She said that there are some things she doesn't like and I must stop doing them, end of story.

I once told her that when there are so many restrictions in place, there isn't much left to do in bed, and she kinda agreed. But apparently it didn't sink in.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RFguy said:


> But I am trying to figure out what is really going on here and if there is any chance of fixing it. Maybe I'm the weirdo and this is how people really have sex.


Women who are that impatient about pauses in sex are women who are not enjoying themselves. They just want it over with. Your GF isn't having fun. She's just going along to give you the minimum allowance of sex that will keep you from leaving her. That's also why she refuses variety and insists on a specific order to the sex acts.

Yes, there is something you can do to fix it. Fix yourself. Stop being a man who accepts table scraps from his GF and become a man that women want to please. If you become that kind of man, and your GF still won't put much effort into meeting your needs, you will easily find other women who will.

Good luck.


----------



## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> The question is, can you continue to find happiness within her narrowed set of boundaries?


No, I can't and I already resent her. I feel I have now reached a critical mass of resentment where even if she magically became more accomodating the next moment, I would still be uninterested in sex with her.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

RFguy said:


> No, I can't and I already resent her. I feel I have now reached a critical mass of resentment where even if she magically became more accomodating the next moment, I would still be uninterested in sex with her.


Is this something you feel can change over time? What would it take for your resentment to go away and stay away? Is that a realistic set of events in your relationship?


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

RFguy said:


> She said that there are some things she doesn't like and I must stop doing them, end of story.
> 
> I once told her that when there are so many restrictions in place, there isn't much left to do in bed, and she kinda agreed. But apparently it didn't sink in.


Unfortunately, I think you're the one that missed the "sinking in" part. She's ok with how things are going and the reduced scope because she's getting her way. I agree with some of the others... You're getting "duty sex" and she just wants it over. Unless you want to clarify things and tell us that no, she initiates sex 3x a week...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

RFguy said:


> No, I can't and I already resent her. I feel I have now reached a critical mass of resentment where even if she magically became more accomodating the next moment, I would still be uninterested in sex with her.


You should try what I did. Marry her and have kids with her, then a decade later give her half of everything you've ever worked for.

It's a proven method, look around, many have followed. It eventually leads to happiness in the sac...with someone else.


----------



## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

RFguy said:


> No, I can't and I already resent her. I feel I have now reached a critical mass of resentment where even if she magically became more accomodating the next moment, I would still be uninterested in sex with her.


It sounds like you have already reached your decision. 

I would discuss with your GF your feelings. If she feels there is nothing to fix, it may be time for you to go.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RFguy said:


> No, I can't and I already resent her. I feel I have now reached a critical mass of resentment where even if she magically became more accomodating the next moment, I would still be uninterested in sex with her.


How long did it take to build up this much resentment?


----------



## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Is this something you feel can change over time? What would it take for your resentment to go away and stay away? Is that a realistic set of events in your relationship?


This well is poisoned. This situation has gone on for so long that I don't think there is turning back now.



treyvion said:


> How long did it take to build up this much resentment?


Three years. The restrictions were in place from day one, but during the first year we were having sex almost daily. In the next two years the frequency started going downhill too.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

If you've been dating her a long time... and you're not married, I conclude that you're not in love with her...

Therefore, I'd move on.

It is not going to get any better once you're married...


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

hambone said:


> I'd move on if I were you.
> 
> It is not going to get any better once you're married...


Best advice you'll ever get. Wish someone told me.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

tulsy said:


> You should try what I did. Marry her and have kids with her, then a decade later give her half of everything you've ever worked for.
> 
> It's a proven method, look around, many have followed. It eventually leads to happiness in the sac...with someone else.


I went down that path...only I got out before we had any children...

I was happy to be getting divorced... and it was the most miserable time of my life.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RFguy said:


> This well is poisoned. This situation has gone on for so long that I don't think there is turning back now.
> 
> 
> 
> Three years. The restrictions were in place from day one, but during the first year we were having sex almost daily. In the next two years the frequency started going downhill too.


Can you guys go to a counselor or therepist? I know this is hard, because she doesn't think it's a problem. But if she has other communication issues with you, perhaps she can get some of her issues addressed while you get some of yours addressed.

What about hormone and blood levels, was this checked out?

I think before dropping her, let her know your thoughts...


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

There is a strong likelihood that she doesn't really want to have sex with you and wants to spend as little time doing the deed as she possibly can. 

She seems to have only one use for you; oral. That's how she gets off, and she might just be barely enduring anything else. Women who actually crave, desire, and lust after you sexually don't do a simple little minute of oral sex, and their libidoes don't drop down to 0 just because you took the time to wrap your sausage.

If you decide to marry this woman I wouldn't be surprised if the sex drops off to 0, or damn near, not long after the ink has dried on your marriage certificate.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

jaquen said:


> There is a strong likelihood that she doesn't really want to have sex with you and wants to spend as little time doing the deed as she possibly can.
> M
> She seems to have only one use for you; oral. That's how she gets off, and she might just be barely enduring anything else. Women who actually crave, desire, and lust after you sexually don't do a simple little minute of oral sex, and their libidoes don't drop down to 0 just because you took the time to wrap your sausage.
> 
> If you decide to marry this woman I wouldn't be surprised if the sex drops off to 0, or damn near, not long after the ink has dried on your marriage certificate.


Would she be "enduring" it with other men?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Do not marry this girl!


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

treyvion said:


> Can you guys go to a counselor or therepist?


In his other thread, he said that she agreed to see a counselor as a condition of his moving back in. Although she was hostile to the idea because only people who never, ever have sex should be seeing counselors. I don't know if they followed through on this.



> What about hormone and blood levels, was this checked out?


That could be an issue. He said she was never a firecracker and had other relationships end over sex.



> I think before dropping her, let her know your thoughts...


He said that he had "the talk" with her three times before finally trying #4, and she was so angry and hostile that he left. So I think she knows what his thoughts are.

I just honestly don't see much here to salvage. He was a dope from the beginning and thought that increased commitment from him would magically turn her on. She's been consistent from the start. The sex was mediocre, but frequent, in the beginning. And she just couldn't keep up that level of interest. The quanitity and quality have been steadily declining from an early point in the relationship.

Even if he could wave his magic wand and make her exactly as interested in him as she was when they first started dating, it would be nothing special. I understand and expect a couples sex life to have ups and downs. But there should at least be some ups to look back on fondly. RFGuy doesn't even have that. He longs for mediocrity with nothing (kids, mortgage, vows) to tie him down to this woman.


----------



## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

I don't understand why you won't just leave her.

She clearly doesnt find you sexaully appealing.
You have no desire to have sex with her at this point.

You two are jsut boyfriend and girlfriend, this is not a serious relationship.

Let it go and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Would she be "enduring" it with other men?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only she would know.


----------



## LVF (May 5, 2013)

I'm very skeptical about counsellors. Do they really work? And even the blood test and libido.. I mean, if you love a man, even if you don't have much libido you understand his needs and still perform oral for longer than 1 min because you want him to feel good.Also, communication issues...doesn't she figure out you need to talk about your problems? I don't understand why would I need someone to tell me that something quite obvious is going on and needs to be solved. If someone is not willing to improve the relationship, why would a strangers word make all the difference? 

These issues in bed seem to be a lot more about her feelings and *personality*. Maybe she takes you for granted. Yeah, you moved out (apparently) but as soon as you go back to her things will be back to normal (or worse). 

If she would endure with other men? Maybe in the beginning, but medium-long term I doubt. This is her vision about sex.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

How is your physical manifestation of the MAP, with respect to Machievelli's "Golden ratio" physical standard?


----------



## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

The BJ thing is really frustrating. She will only rarely go down on me and when she does it is just a few licks and then she urges me for PIV. And no, I am not dirty down there, quite the opposite. She herself has actually commented on how clean I keep myself.

I tried using flavored condoms a couple of times because I thought maybe she was for whatever reason disgusted, but it didn't make one iota of difference.

Now when she (rarely) offers a BJ, I won't let her do it. I find the whole thing ridiculous and insulting.

She acts like an extraterrestrial who came to earth from another universe and she learned about human sexuality from a book. She knows about the general concept of sex but she misses the finer details that actually make it pleasurable


----------



## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> How is your physical manifestation of the MAP, with respect to Machievelli's "Golden ratio" physical standard?


Too many unknown words here! What do you mean?


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Why doesn't she put on the condom for you? Do it sexy with her mouth or feet.

Why doesn't she go on birth control?

Sounds like she isn't into sex and is LD. It's more duty sex to her and get it out of the way.

With the internet and porn, she should be able to figure out how to please a man with ease and what pleases women.

If she isn't willing to change, move on and find a woman that will take care of your needs. Many good ones out there with HD's.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

She's making sex as difficult as she can for you by putting so many restrictions on it. She's hoping that it becomes such a pain in the ass for you or boring that you will quit initiating.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> She's making sex as difficult as she can for you by putting so many restrictions on it. She's hoping that it becomes such a pain in the ass for you or boring that you will quit initiating.


Yeah, beat his desire down.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RFguy said:


> Too many unknown words here! What do you mean?


The MAP is the Marriage Action Plan from Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

Machievelli is a poster on this board. He recommends weight training to become more attractive to women. The golden ratio, for men, is the ratio of one's shoulders to one's waist. The ideal ratio is about 1.6.


----------



## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> Why doesn't she put on the condom for you? Do it sexy with her mouth or feet.
> 
> Why doesn't she go on birth control?
> 
> ...


I once told her about inserting the condom using her mouth and she replied that it is impossible to put on a condom that way. Didn't even want to try. Didn't pursue any further after that incident

She doesn't like any of the other available BC methods. I once mentioned that maybe I should get a vasectomy and she didn't like that either for no apparent reason because she doesn't want children.

We tried to watch some porn together but she found it disgusting and couldn't watch. She actually turned her gaze away from the TV and she covered her eyes with her hands. It wasn't one of those weird fetish porn. She stopped watching as soon as the actors started undressing, no action had taken place on screen yet.

Now that I write these incidents down, I start to realize that her issues are much much deeper that I initially thought.






soccermom2three said:


> She's making sex as difficult as she can for you by putting so many restrictions on it. She's hoping that it becomes such a pain in the ass for you or boring that you will quit initiating.


I don't think she's doing that on purpose. There have been times where she was genuinely horny and all those restrictions still applied.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Your GF has a severe case of sexual hang ups and blocks brought on by being raised in an informational void, with lots of shame and judgement about her body and how it worked. This is entirely curable!

But only if she wants to. When you break up with her, do her the kindness of saying that sex is a beautiful wonderful thing and one day you'll get the help you need to be a complete and whole sexual woman.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Look this woman either doesn't want sex at all or she just doesn't want sex with you.

Either way, you're screwed and not in the way you want to be.

So the bottom line is this; what are YOU going to do? Why are you staying?


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> The MAP is the Marriage Action Plan from Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.
> 
> Machievelli is a poster on this board. He recommends weight training to become more attractive to women. The golden ratio, for men, is the ratio of one's shoulders to one's waist. The ideal ratio is about 1.6.


It's actually the Male Action Plan


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RFguy said:


> My long-term GF has many hangups about sex, you can read about them in my other thread. But I am trying to figure out what is really going on here and if there is any chance of fixing it. Maybe I'm the weirdo and this is how people really have sex.
> 
> The problem as I see it is that our sexual encounters seem like they follow some weird unstated regular expression or flowchart.
> 
> ...


Yes. Just work with her quirks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Yes. Just work with her quirks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah,

There are a couple of other posters on this site where they have a "window" to which they work their sexual relations and intimacy from and their window was much smaller and tinier than yours. They would be happy to have your window.

But, there is one thing in play here. Resentment. Right now, with the way you think, you build up resentment being forced to operate from this window. Ahh, forgot about the condom application time frame, that would make me lose my erection. Have her put on the condoms...

I was just thinking that if you could find a way to not have resentment and buildup anger because you have to work within her parameters, then she won't feel said stress and anger and might feel better about it and herself.

Let her feel better about herself, and find a way not to get angry.


----------



## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

If you can't deal with her hangups leave. Get out while you can. 

If you think you want to try and stay with her, you need to think very hard about what that will mean for you in the future. It's probably not going to get better. It will likely get worse actually. You have nothing tying you to this woman at this time, but getting divorced is more expensive and harder than breaking up. If she's not doing anything for BC you may even be faced with children later down the road.

I would cut and run now. Don't chance being stuck 10 years from now when you decide you can't live like that anymore. Then you get to deal with shared debt, shared assets, and possible kids when you decide you can't take it anymore.


----------



## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

Give this a go and if it doesn't work out tell her to go...

1.) When you see it coming get the condom out and open the package so it's ready to go when you are. Time saver is all.

2.) Accept that the BJ ain't happening and get what you can so you can dive into "work".

3.) Pick a position and stick to it. (Pun intended, you're welcome). She'll tell you to change up. Buckle up buddy. Tell her "No, too many conditions to that."

4.) She asks for Oral you tell her "Nope. Not feeling it now that I've been at it." Or offer some" in kind, 69."


She'll likely not like your terms. You'll likely be left hanging. Some arguing will ensue. From that one of two things will become painfully clear to both of you.

1.) Time to call it quits.
2.) Time for her to work on things with you.

Lather, rinse and repeat as needed.


----------



## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Please consider your future. You are not married to this woman and she has SO many hangups. Do yourself a favor and walk away. Perhaps your departure will be the impetus for her to look at herself and realize there is so much more to a full relationship.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Malpheous said:


> Give this a go and if it doesn't work out tell her to go...
> 
> 1.) When you see it coming get the condom out and open the package so it's ready to go when you are. Time saver is all.
> 
> ...


I like this particular approach. It gives you an opportunity to establish greater parity over time. Is it possible that maybe with some people you won't "get your way", but I agree that some of her behaviors and conditions would kill the session, for me it would have been the shortness around opening and application of the condom. If it's such a problem, she should do it herself.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

By the way, Mr. OP, I am sure someone will give you an advice along the lines of "Off course she act like this, coz you're NOT marrying her! She feels like you're using her for sex only! You should marry her! That's the right thing to do!".

Do NOT follow this advice. From your description, I am 1000% certain that even if you marry her, she will not change, and you will be in far worse situation than it already is. It's better for you to leave her, and deal with a little pain now (which will go away after a while), rather than marry her, and deal with a lot of pain daily for the rest of your life.


----------



## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

She is allowed to have preferences and boundaries in bed. Just as you are.

The problem is that you two are not a match.


----------

