# Wife Wants To Separate, I Don't - I'm Lost About What To Do



## Everything I Own

Hi,

I've used forums for getting info & advice on loads of stuff, but I really never thought i'd be posting something like this on a forum like this . . .

But here I am.

We've been married for 7 years, and have been going out for 20 years. We have three kids - 10, 7 & 5. We have a shared mortgage on our family home. I love my wife, and I don't want the relationship to end, but she seems to no longer feel anything but hate & resentment for me.

Rather than pouring out our whole sad story, I'll start by saying first that I'm lazy, selfish & neglectful. I also have OCD, and I'm opinionated and outspoken. 

Basically, I've simply not been a great husband. It's not that I drink, cheat, gamble, use drugs or squander money, and I'm not violent or aggressive - I just don't treat her well. I keep saying in my head that it's not that I've treated her badly, it's that I haven't treated her well.

Some of the key issues that my wife has and has had with me are:

I don't make any effort to make her feel special.
I'm not spontaneous.
I don't bring her out to the pub or for a meal or similar treats.
I'm lazy - I haven't been actively looking for work since being made redundant in Feb 2009, I don't do a lot of housework, etc.
I have bad habits that annoy her.
I don't groom myself or take much pride in the way I look.
I'm opinionated & pass-remarkable.
I become obsessive with anything that catches my interest.

A lot of things that she hates about me are also things I hate about myself, but that I've always had difficulty overcoming. I might go through a phase of gelling my hair & wearing cologne for example, but I struggle then not to feel like, what's the point, I just have to wash it all out tomorrow. I wish I didn't have some of the traits I do have, but I've always had them.

So now my wife seems to have reached a point where my neglect & laziness is simply too much. Her hate & resentment now completely overrides any memory of any happy times we've had. And we have had plenty. 

I have cheated in the past - 16 years ago, 6 years before we had our first child. After that, we spent two years apart. When we did get back together, it was tough for my wife, as she had a lot of difficulty letting go of my actions. In my view, she never has. She also had issues with how friends & family might judge her for getting back with me. Again, I think she still carries some embarrassment over it. 

I understand that it's difficult now for her to remember any good times, but I've always done small things for her - make cups of tea, turn on her electric blanket, that sort of thing (yeah, I know - what a hero), but I've also built an extension onto our house myself for less than half the price contractors quoted. I rebuilt the kitchen/dining room myself - it wouldn't have been done if we'd had to pay contractors. I gutted & rebuilt our son's bedroom with a custom made bunk-bed for better space & storage. I built a custom bunk-bed for our daughters for more room space & better storage. I do most of the servicing & maintenence/repairs on our cars myself so we don't have to pay for it. We've gone on family holidays almost every year for years. And although I haven't had a proper job since Feb 2009, I have taken some pretty crap work both before & after being made redundant - one where I had to cycle 4 miles to a train station, get a train, then walk a mile through one of the worst areas of the city, and then spend all day being treated like a dog by "I'm-better-than-you" college graduates. And then reverse the commute. 

I'm now back working, though it is away from home - I'm home at the weekends. It seems like this will be full-time permanent work, and I'm glad to have it.

I want for us to sort it out. I want to be a better man. I want to change, insofar as I can, the things about me that I, and my wife, don't like. I love my wife, and my kids. I hope my family can be repaired and become happy & stable again.

At the moment, I'm staying with my parents - luckily, my younger sister lives out of town, so I'm in her room for now. My wife has asked me to move out and give her space. I say "asked", but it was more like she kicked me out. 

I initially had an awful lot of difficulty with this, as it was obviously going to expose me to family & friends as the lazy, selfish & neglectful husband that I've been. 

But I tried to respect her request, though it was a bit chaotic at first - she works nights at the weekend, and I "babysat" my own kids, she needed to go places while I minded the kids, I was doing some work for our next door neighbour, and to be honest, I was missing my kids and my home. I was also desperately fearful that after the space she requested, she'd end up saying, "you know what? I like this - I want to separate"

My parents naturally don't agree with me being kicked out - it's still my home after all. But I do want to give her the space she's asking for. If I put on an optimist's hat, I can think, "maybe she'll be able to purge any bad memories and/or thoughts and find enough love/like/compassion in her to give me a chance to try to address my issues." If I put on a realist's hat (for me, realism seems to be a better opposite than pessimism), I think it's game over.

The brief messages & words I've gotten from her family & friends, including her dad, who, if anyone, should be down on me like a ton of bricks, all say things like my wife has her own issues, it's not all down to me, I'm basically a good man who just needs to work on my husband "skills", they all hope we get back together and sort it out.

I honestly don't know where it's going to go. When we talk, my wife's language is all past tense, and all as if everything's already over - it "was" my home, the kids will still see lots of me.

I'm not even sure if it's a good idea that I've accepted leaving the family home, even for just the couple of weeks of space she's requesting - is it a concession or admission that I accept we're finished?

I've tried to arrange relationship/marriage counselling, and have looked into getting counselling myself to help me address my own issues, but my wife has openly said she's not sure she even wants to give counselling a chance.

My heart's telling me it's too late - I've blown it. I got enough warning, over the last couple of years especially, that she wanted more from me - lots of arguments, some tears - so I probably should have seen this coming. But I really didn't see us ending. I'd give everything for the chance to show her I'm trying to change the things I need to change. As my dad says, no-one can completely "change" what they naturally are, but I know I can change enough to be closer to the man she'd probably prefer me to be, and I want to change these things anyway - I've had friction with my own close friends, family & workmates all through the years. Where will I end up if I don't do something? Like I said, I'll go to counselling or therapy or whatever to see what I can do.

A final word about our kids - they're all very special children, as any parent will say about their own. They've given my wife & I nothing but great joy & pleasure since they came into our life, except of course the day-to-day crap that kids do seemingly just to test us. We always knew we were going to have kids - we even had names picked out together before we even started trying for our first. I entertain the notion of "kids-first", but maybe because of having lost my own mother when I was 10, my preference in all this - not for my own selfish reasons, but for our kid's - would be that my wife & I can work on 1. reducing or minimizing the things about ourselves that we know bothers the other, 2. being more accepting & tolerant of the things that bother us about each other, and 3. find love & happiness again - a stable, happy & loving family unit is everything, in my opinion. 

Then why did I let things get to this point? Is it as simple as "I'm just lazy"? Or is it because, deep down, no matter what I think I know, I don't actually truly love my wife? I really don't know. I feel like I love her. She's far from perfect - I know some of my friends (and hers) might not accept some of her traits/behaviours, but I feel like I love her, "warts & all". I'm not ugly, I'm good fun, I'm clever - I know I'd probably meet someone else in time, but I don't want to. I'm in a band, and there are usually girls hovering around after gigs, but I have no interest in them, either to get to know them personally, nor to be with them - my wife is who I want to be with. I just wish I'd listened to the warnings all along, before she got to this point. I know that there are other issues with life generally that she has, and I wish I could help, but it seems too late for me to be of any help to her now - she just resents me now. I should have listened and helped long ago.

Phew. Thinking & typing all this is tiring. Fair play to you if you're read this far.

I guess I'd apreciate any thoughts or advice any of you guys might have.

Thanks for reading.


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## 827Aug

I'm sorry you are going through all of this. I honestly think you need to see an individual therapist. Begin working on yourself and become that man your wife always wanted--a better man. She just might take notice of that. And if not, you'll be better off for the next relationship you have.

Also, begin reading marriage and self-help books. "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman is on the top of my list. I think you'll see what your wife really had to have in your marriage once you read the book.

Hang in there!


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## Everything I Own

Thanks 827Aug.

Is this the book you mean?

http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/13417531/-/EnlargedImage.html

Thanks again.


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## 827Aug

That's the one. It's a must read.


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## Everything I Own

Got that book, and his books on apology & anger.

Personally, I find them difficult to read, as they all seem to have a fairly prominent religious context, and I'm not at all religious. But thanks for the help anyway.

We've been to three marriage counselling sessions together, though my wife conceded at the first, when we were each asked what we hoped to get out of the counselling, that she didn't want to fix things at all.

What has started to come out is that she was never sure that getting back together with me after being apart for 2 years was the right thing for her to do, and she's said that at the time, she hoped I'd change (the laziness & selfishness she knew I had), and that she'd be able to get over my previous infidelity.

My beef at this stage, is that she shouldn't have gotten back with me if she wasn't over or past incidents that were 3 years in the past. Nor should she have had three kids with me, married me, bought a house with me, etc.

I've let her down badly in my actions - laziness, selfishness & neglect are awful traits in a man to have to put up with. But there are far "worse" husbands / partners out there - I've never missed a mortgage payment even though I wasn't actively looking for work, I keep the house & gardens in decent repair, I do loads of DIY around the home.

It's just not sitting right with me that separating is proportional to the things my wife is claiming are the grounds for it. And the irony is that her mother and three of her closest friends all agree with me.

I want to make it up to my wife, but her well of anger with events prior to when we got back together is dominating everything for her - she says she can't look at me without feeling angry, she sees my annoying stuff all over the house - a pile of magazines on my bedside locker, my boots in the hallway, the towel I didn't put in the wash box, the smell after I go to the toilet. It's like I'm the only one in the house who does anything wrong. Or that the wrongs I do are a billion times worse or more intolerable than anyone else's. Is it really possible that I'm the only person in her life that angers her? I know I'm the only one she vents on, whether I'm the source of the anger or not.

But she doesn't seem to get angry about me when she walks on the french oak flooring I fitted, or the tiling I've done in the bathrooms & kitchen, or the kitchen extension I built, or the under-stairs cubby storage I made, or the maintenance I do on the cars that saves us money, or the custom bunk beds I built for the kids, or the decking & patio in the back garden.

I'm not in denial about how I've failed my wife. I want to make it up to her. But she's so hateful of me now, she won't even talk to me. As far as I know she's not even talking to her friends. She's spending a lot of time with her brother & his partner. Both of them come from collapsed marriages, and I'm not convinced they're not influencing the route my wife's taking.

I read recently in an article on Cognitive Behavioural Therapy that previous episodes of clinical depression (which my wife has had) can "re-wire" the brain's circuits, so that future episodes or tendencies towards depression can be more likely.

On foot of my wife's comment in one of the counselling sessions that she can't get herself to remember any good times from our relationship, I scanned into our laptop loads of photos from our dating days, and our life together up to this point - nights out, the two of us cuddling or being playful, holidays together, holidays with the kids, etc. I uploaded them to my Facebook page (she doesn't talk to me between counselling sessions, let alone sit and look at photos with me), but at the next counselling session, she attacked me for doing that - "you just put them up there to make me remember the good times". I said that yes, I absolutely did. She seems to want to reject that we had good times and that I can make up for how I've failed her.

Again, I'm not dismissing my failings, or suggesting that I haven't played a big part in us being where we are now, but I feel more & more strongly as this all develops that my wife needs help, rather than separation. And I don't know where to get that help. I love her and I know her better than anyone else she knows, and I know in my gut she's being influenced by her brother, though she denies it when I raise it. Her language over the last few weeks just isn't her language - she's using words & phrases & terminology that are very formal & cold, rather than the more typical passionate & on-the-fly temper-flares I know to be her norm. Just as if she's being fed lines from someone who's been down this road.

I don't care how good support systems are for helping kids cope with this kind of stuff, the answer to this problem is not separation, it's addressing my wife's underlying anger & pain issues. And again, I'm not dismissing my failures.

More & more I now look at this not as separating, but as my wife leaving me.

Sorry again for the long post. How sad is it that a man has to vent & seek help on a web forum? But my family & friends are invariable saying "she's gone crazy, it's a mid-life crisis, f*!k her - let her go, she always bullied you anyway, she'll regret this" - all stuff like that. But I still care about her. Yes, she can be quite aggressive. She admitted in counselling that sometimes she's actually been quite cruel to me. All verbally, never physically. But I still care about her. I want to get her out of were she's at, and back to a place where she can accept & see that I do care, and that I want to save our family.


Thanks


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## lostlately

My heart goes out to you because you sound like a sweet man, an honest person, and let me tell you, honesty is about the main thing in life. You sound pretty awesome, and I'm a pretty good judge of reading between the lines. SOooo, if your wife does leave you, you don't have much control over that, but that's also the beauty of it. I think you really have done your best, even as far as admitting that you haven't done your best and trying harder. 
There is always more spiritual gain for the one BEING left (small consolation now) ...being powerless over the end of a relationship/marriage forces a person to grow and face things. But you also have a better chance to make huge gains: you don't have to be paralyzed by guilt. YOU were willing to keep trying, YOU were willing to change and adapt and grow to stay together...so you can let the guilt go and do the best with the rest of your life with a clear mind and heart. GOOD luck to you!


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## AlwaysThinkingMaybe

Everything I Own,

This was a tough one for me to read, since in maybe very many ways, you are my husband. The man I am contemplating separating from. 

He is a good man, maybe not the most attentive, maybe not the easiest to get along with, definitely not good at being sociable, the list goes on and on.

And I love him. How can I not, I spent the last 15 years with him and he gave me two wonderful children.

I know he loves me. He may not show it very well, but he does on occassion demonstrate it.

So why am I considering leaving?

Because I'm so very unhappy, I've literally tailored my life to try and glean little moments of happiness out of it, adjusted my independence, my tolerance, may personal life goals to stay in this relationship. Like you and your wife, this wasn't an overnight decision. We've weathered lots of things in the past. Instead, its been like a slowly growing ball of resentment that I don't like to swallow.

When I tell him, I know that it will be so very difficult. I really don't want to hurt him, but I've really just reached a place in my life where I need to persue my life for Me. Not for him. And when I do, I hope in vain that we can somehow do it amicably, but I know he will feel much like you do and not want to let me go.

If you were him, I'd say the following: 

I cannot be your life. I cannot be your happiness. I cannot be your sole reason for wanting to live. You must find your own happiness in yourself, you must find your own desire to live and hobbies you like and be a completely independent happy person before you can bring anything to our own relationship. And I have work to do, in the same manner for my own life before I could ever possibly be the real partner you should have. 

If you can somehow find a way to change your perspective on life and find that inner happiness, it would probably very much rekindle the feelings I once had for you.


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## Everything I Own

Lostlately, thanks. Not quite sure I'm awesome, but I'm more & more feeling that I'm not as bad a man as I had been feeling when I made my first post.

I only now feel like I'm starting to take this bull by the horns. I'm standing up more to my wife's aggression, and I'm simultaneously calmly refuting her claimed grounds to separate and suggesting that it's the baggage from the past that's the core issue for us. I've my own appointment with a counseller on Monday, I've contacted our family doctor and described what's going on (she wants me to work out a way to get both myself & my wife down to see her together - wish me luck with that), and I've contacted another, different, counselling/family support agency, I guess sort of for a second opinion.

AlwaysThinkingMaybe - tell him. Tell him in a way that he understands. One thing I will say about the book recommended is that it has forced me to rethink about how both myself and my wife have communicated over the years - there will be little successful healthy communication unless partners know what ticks each others boxes, and we settled into ruts of non-communication.

If your normal way of letting him know you're unhappy is aggression, temper, nastiness, anger, cruel comments, criticism (I'm not saying this is the case with you - how could I know? It kind of has been the case with us), then try sitting down together quietly, or insist he goes for a walk with you, or whatever you know he will be susceptible to, and tell him you still love him, but that you want some things to change because life just gets tired for us all, and you feel things might be lost between you if these things don't change. I would most certainly have responded to that a million percent quicker than the constant criticism & anger/aggression from my wife. And let him know that even if he does get a hobby, or stop having you as his sole reason to live, you'll still be happy to be one of his reasons, or even his main reason, to live.

Maybe I'm biased, or selfish, but surely we don't dump/walk out on good people just because we get bored of them, or they don't light our fires in the same way as they used to? 

I think it's unfair and unreasonable to abandon a marriage (excepting abuse, etc) without first exhausting everything else - rethink your communication styles, attend counselling (individual and/or couple), or whatever.

For us, this baggage from the past will be the cause of our demise. I'm really stuck on how to bring my wife around to even considering that it could be a factor at all in her feelings for me now, let alone the primary factor. And in truth, I'm worried that even if she does concede it, and is willing to acknowledge & address it, she may be so far down a road of hate & detest & ill-feeling for me (hitherto presumed to be grounded in my failings of the last 5 years or so), that it may transpire to be a one-way road she can't come back out of.

I've even phoned people over the last few days to confirm thoughts that have been creeping to the fore of my consciousness. It's almost like Christian Bale's character in The Machinist, where events come back to him as he's looking in the mirror - "I know you... I know you.."

I talked with my boss from the job I was working in when my wife had PND after our third child. One of her strongest resentments towards me now, and arguments for wanting to separate, is that I didn't support her well during this time, highlighting that I often lingered late in work, when I could have come home. This is true - I remember deliberately stalling because I knew there'd be a truck-load of anger towards me waiting for me. All her anger and frustration from her day would be released on me, which I could handle sometimes, but eventually my empathy for her morphed into apathy and my selfishness took over. I'm ashamed of this - I should have just swallowed my trouble and tried to work it out with her. 

So in the chat with my old boss, I asked if he remembered that period - 5 years ago now - and he said he remembered it well. His recollection is that I spent a lot of time on the phone to my wife during my days in work, and that I went home early a lot - often 2-3 hours early, a couple of times a week. We got on very well, and he understood what was happening with us, so he said he let it go for months. This was a revelation to me - the constant ramming down my throat of "you left me at home struggling on my own!" must have sunk in and become my memory of things, even though it was only after months of properly supporting her, as best I could while keeping a job, that it did become what it seems is my wife's only memory of that time.

So now I'm analysing all the other points of failure that my wife is citing as grounds to separate, and I'm seeing cracks. I know I keep saying it - I have failed my wife and let her down, and I have behaviours & habits that annoy her, but again, as this develops, I'm realising more & more that I'm not as guilty or as bad, or my failures aren't as extreme, as my wife is pushing, and that those failures should really be taken in measure against the things that I do, have done, and have been doing, right and well. And again, I don't believe I'm in denial.

AlwaysThinkingMaybe - if you do want to stay with your husband, figure out how to successfully communicate to him how you're feeling, in a way that prompts & encourages the change(s) you hope for, and not in a way that comes accross as merely venting or sounding-off. Good luck.

Thanks


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## Everything I Own

Things look like they're about to go way south for me.

My wife sprung it on me on Monday morning that with me not working this week, and the kids being off school, she was going to "head off for a couple of days" allegedly to visit a friend. She's coming home tomorrow.

I'm just after finding (by accidental chance) search histories on the home laptop for mid-week hotel break offers, and the website for one particular hotel, and the booking page for a mid-week special offer in that hotel. These hits were not present in the normal search history, but were still in the search history in the toolbar (which I never usually visit, and has search history entries going back many months, even though the normal search history is set to delete anything older than 2 or 3 weks, IIRC), so I can only assume some deleting took place.

It's simmered all along in the back of my mind during all this that she might be seeing someone else, and could be using my failings as a smokescreen for her actions. 

Friends & family have even asked me that uncomfortable question: "do you think she's seeing someone else?" I always shot it down (even in my own mind), though I felt it would be a more understandable reason to want to separate than hitting me for failings that a) it's dawning on me as I ponder all this, weren't as severe as claimed, and b) are not even as severe as some failings experienced in a lot of other marriages around the world.

I hope I'm wrong , and that I'm jumping to a conclusion borne of confusion & paranoia while I don't really have my head together.

But I'm not confident I'm wrong.

Not told any friends, as it's nearly 4am, but just needed to "verbalise" my thoughts now.


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## theglamarazzi

Hi. It seems to me like you still love your wife and is still willing to undergo major changes to keep the marriage. This is also one of the common reasons for divorce and separation (hey, I read about that here The Most Common Reasons for Divorce and Separation | Marriage and Separation Advice). Have you thought about marriage counseling? The divorce process is tedious and draining but perhaps you can also help save your marriage. Seek help. Get back that "loving feeling" you felt when you were first together! everything is a commitment just like how you commit to make each other happy. I wish the best for you


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## Syrum

Stop being lazy, put a real effort in, make changes and stick to them.


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## Babyheart

She may not be seeing anybody else. I know I would love nothing more than a few days treating myself to a few days R&R (ALONE!)


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## cdbaker

Everything I Own,

I see a LOT of concerning issues here, some that your wife needs to address and several that you do as well.

Starting with you: You keep admitting to your own faults and behaviors but I get the impression that you aren't necessarily doing anything about them. As hard as it is (and feel free to look up my enormous post on my story, because I KNOW how hard it is) it still comes down to a simple decision to not only commit to making changes, but even harder is committing to the smaller changes that you have to make in order to allow for the real changes. For instance, if I am trying to stop looking at porn, I can promise I won't do it all I want to, but am I willing to install filtering software on my computers that will report to my MOTHER if I visit questionable sites?, or banish the laptops from the bed room, or even get rid of the computers in my home altogether? It is easy for me to decide that I need to avoid porn, but the best way to do that is to build defenses or eliminate the threat. I'll never be able to take the commitment seriously if there aren't repercussions for failing to meet my commitment.

Next, have you ever heard of the five love languages? You don't have to go buy the book but do a google search to learn what they are. I suspect that your primary love language is "Acts of Service" while hers is likely something altogether different. I keep seeing you refer to your various jobs, the work ethic you put in to provide for your family, the home remodeling you've done, her lack of appreciation for it all, etc. For starters, that makes you come off sounding like a bit of an ass, in a "She aught to be grateful! She has fine wood floors that I spent hours of back-breaking labor to provide for her!" sort of way. I know you probably don't mean it that way, but if it can come across here, I bet she has felt that way too. She quite frankly probably doesn't give a damn about the floors or anything else you've mentioned there. To you, they are clearly ways in which you have intended to show her your love, and that is very commendable and perfectly natural. To her however, I bet you money that she didn't see those things that way. I bet you her love language demands other efforts from you that do not come naturally, just as her efforts to show you love in the past might not have met your love needs. 

Breaking down your posts and pointing out the problems I'm seeing might not do a lot of good however, so let me skip to my suggestions for you. Before that however, I want to say that I FIRMLY believe that your marriage is very salvagable. Regardless of whether she is dating someone else or has been pursuing an emotional affair or what not (and she probably has/is), you are still in the best position to win her heart. You CAN do it, if you choose to. Quite frankly, I believe the odds are extremely good if you can do what it will take to win her back. Suggestions:

1. Figure out what her "love language" is. I'm not saying that book or system is the end-all of marital relationships, but it is one very easy way to do a LOT of good here. Figure it out and then go out of your way as often as you can to show her love in that way. If it is gifts, then hand her a favorite candy bar every time you see her, write her notes on note cards whenever you can and hand them to her, make her lists of your favorite qualities she has, etc. If you can hit on her love language, she'll feel it and that will be one enormous change that she could start seeing right away. It will soften her heart just a little bit, hopefully enough to see all the other changes that you will be working on that aren't as obvious.

2. Sit down with a trusted male friend who won't bull**** you and write down your faults, your troubled behaviors, all the aspects you want changed and come up with a real, HONEST (to yourself) plan for correcting them. Don't shy away from anything. The sub-changes you'll have to make to ensure that the larger changes have a chance to happen will NOT be easy but you have to make them. Be sure to enable consequences for your actions, similar to the wave of embarassment that I will feel if my mother gets an auto-generated e-mail telling her that her little boy has visited "donkeyporn.com" or something like that. Make it painful, like getting rid of your computer or dropping to a crappy cell phone or whatever may be needed. In all likelihood, if you are making outward changes like changing your schedules, physically eliminating distractions, seeing new counselors on a regular basis, or taking steps to help you grow as a person, she won't be able to help but notice them. Seeing real change is the only way to convince her that it is real at this point. Promises failed, admission was step one, but now it has to be real.

3. Start being ultra-kind to your wife at all times, no matter what. I don't care if she yells, is insulting, is talking crap about you to others, is openly cheating on you or selling your stuff or whatever. You admit that you share enormous responsibility for what has happened, so own up to it and take your medicine. Respect her even if she doesn't deserve it at the moment, show her the honor that she is worthy of by virtue of her being your wife. If she is being hurtful or cruel and you can't say anything kind in return, then politely wish her good day and walk away, and don't hold a grudge about it. Show her you still love her by treating her like you love her, like she is not an adversary.

4. Continue to support her in any way you can, and this absolutely means financially as well. Keep paying the mortgage, keep paying the bills, work your ass off to do so if you have to. If she is used to getting her hair done every three weeks, then let her know that she can continue to do so even if you have to pay for it. Security is HUGE for women, and this will show her that you understand her pain, you understand your role in it, and while you are working through the issues that caused that pain, you will continue to support her as much as you can.

5. Admit your faults freely to anyone and everyone. Don't let anyone say an insulting word about her. Defend her as you should defend your wife. You said at one point you were concerned that she will tell everyone about how much of a lazy, awful husband you have been. Beat her to the punch and tell them yourself if you can. Not only will the added pressure make you even more determined to correct your issues, it will show her that you have the humility to admit it freely, that you aren't hiding or covering it up, that you welcome the additional scrutiny. I bet she'd be blown away by this level of commitment.

6. You have little room for error, so don't screw up! Start being the best man you can be TODAY and don't hide it. You may not think so now, but she still listens to you, pays attention to you, is interested in how you are doing and what you are up to. She'll see it or hear about it.

It is great that you can admit to your faults, I'm sure you have admitted them to her a lot as well. Now you just need to take the steps needed to turn this boat around. I know you said you aren't a man of faith, but I want to point to some biblical wisdom that I know holds a lot of truth today. God doesn't call us to respect our wives, as that should come naturally to men, he calls us to LOVE our wives. Likewise, wives are never directed to love their husbands, they are directed to respect us because that is not natural for them. That is why you likely feel like she disrespects you repeatedly because she very likely IS disrespecting you. Women tend to see relationship problems WAY before men do, and they spend a ton of time and effort trying to resolve them, but eventually they do give up, which often ends up being our wake-up call. So by the time we men have finally realized what is going on, our wife is walking out the door, likely towards another man that they have already had their eye on. 

Know that you have a GREAT DEAL of power here, still! You are still her husband, the father of her children, she might not admit it but ideally she still would LOVE it if your marriage could be saved. She just needs to be convinced and the best way to do that is to change yourself, be the best husband you can be. In the bible, the issue of a believer being married to an unbeliever is brought up. The bible tells us that if we are yoked to an unbeliever, that we should endeavor to be the very best spouse we can be, that we should be godly in all ways, properly love/respect our spouse no matter what, etc. This is because we can't make our spouse change, but we can influence them by our own actions. If your wife has anger problems, then love her relentlessly, become the man she has always wanted you to be, and she'll come to realize that she wants to become a better spouse for you too. She'll see who you have become and that will give her strength to do the same, just as God suggests that a husband will desire to seek out what has made his wife so wonderful when she continues to honor and respect him even when he is not properly honoring and loving her in the way he is called to.

Anyways, I have to get going to an appointment. If you'd like to chat sometime, hit me up with a private message. I hope some of this has helped you a bit. Seriously I know you can save your marriage. I have yet to see a story as bad as my own, nor have I seen anyone else tell me that their story is worse than mine, but I think if mine is salvagable (and I believe it is!) then yours is as well, regardless of what is going on behind the scenes.


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## anx

I agree with what cdbaker said.

My story is in the reconciliation section, and hopefully it would help.

It sounds like you are on the right track to fixing this. I hope it works out.


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## cdbaker

Anx: Haha, you agree with everything I said? I half-expected to get some opposition to some of my ideas as I have been accused of "rolling over" for my wife and not being a man about this. Of course I couldn't disagree more with that assertion. I think being a real man is taking care of your family, loving and honoring your wife properly, being a strong parent to your children, and all of this includes doing what you have to do to keep your family together. You don't have to roll over, but you may have to take some punches along the way to put everything back together, especially when you know you share a responsibility in it falling apart to begin with. Besides, you owe it to your children and you made a commitment to your wife.

Anyways there were a couple things I meant to add but didn't have time. One other idea I would suggest is that you take some time to think of ways that you could step out of your comfort zone. Changing who you are, which will be necessary here, doesn't mean just changing a few aspects of your life. You want the change to envelope your life, so consider steps you could take that will help you grow as a person, not just steps that correct a problem. Consider volunteering. No seriously. I started volunteering with a local homeless shelfter, I founded a father/daughter activity group at my church where we meet on Saturday mornings to do various fun activities with our girls (I have a 7 year old daughter), I have also become a big brother of sorts to a teenage boy who is struggling with conflict in his home. These things not only make me feel better about myself and my circumstances, but the foreign nature of these activities also help me stay focused on the other changes I am making in my life so that they stay at the forefront of my mind. It may sound like overkill, but I highly recommend it. (Plus, if you can incorporate your children into it somehow, it shows how commited you are as a father and your wife will LOVE seeing that)

Next, I want to remind you that this isn't all your fault. She has sure made her own mistakes, unhealthy behaviors, etc. You can't take all of the blame, but you can save your marriage by yourself. You have clearly taken a few good steps but you have to show her follow-thru. Women LOVE being pursued. You can't pursue her now because she will flatly reject you, but you can indirectly pursue her heart by becoming the man she always wanted you to be (the man she has since decided that you'll never be. Prove to her that she is wrong) by being the father to your children that she has wanted you to be, by showing her that you have truly, FINALLY heard her, that you are a different person and will never go back to the old you. Assuming that she has expressed interest in another man (I don't want to alarm you, but she probably has. Women value security so much that they rarely quit a relationship without having already set their sights on the next relationship), remember that adulterous relationships are unstable by their very nature, and they never (extremely rarely) last. So don't worry if she is doing something behind your back. She figures she is or will be single soon so she will do whatever she wants, but you still have a golden opportunity to show her your stability, the strength of your heart, etc. Take the right steps, don't screw up, and you can totally save your family, I am sure of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlwaysThinkingMaybe

Everything I Own said:


> AlwaysThinkingMaybe - if you do want to stay with your husband, figure out how to successfully communicate to him how you're feeling, in a way that prompts & encourages the change(s) you hope for, and not in a way that comes accross as merely venting or sounding-off. Good luck.


Thank you. Just sounds so much easier in words than enacting in actions.


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## Everything I Own

Phew... Lots to read there.

I hate the idea of rolling over. I've been seeing a counseller alone, and it's coming out that I'm admitting to myself something I've suppressed throughout our relationship - my wife is a bully, and has been abusive toward me. This doesn't cancel out how I've failed her, nor the habits & behaviours that I need to change.

But it does put me in a different mind-frame now - do I really want this relationship to be fixed?

I got a letter from her solicitor yesterday, formally stating her intent to separate. I hadn't even agreed nor disagreed to mediation yet, which I had asked for time to consider before she "went legal".

Our 5 year old throws tantrums now & again when we catch her out for doing something wrong - writing on a wall, taking her sister's doll & hiding it for herself, etc. We're getting it under control, but it still happens occasionally. When either one of us approch her about it, she goes off into a loud and angry tantrum, shouting over us so we can't even speak about the subject. She shuts down the ability for the conversation to take place.

My wife does exactly the same thing - as soon as she sees any reason coming from any of my comments or arguments, she turns her volume & anger levels up a notch, and talks over me, so I can't make my reasonable point.

Reading back over my posts here, I can see that I've probably overstated my DIY stuff, but my intent was to illustrate that I'm not the uncaring, lazy, useless, w*!ker she always reverts to painting me as.

I don't know how many times I've conceded how I've failed her, but it's simply not fact that the failings/failures are as extreme as she's selling.

I did come home early from work a lot, till her behaviour to me on my arrival home simply put me off coming home early. That's surely a 50/50 blame problem? Or at least not all my wrong-doing.

I "sat at home" for two years, and denied the family stuff. I didn't work for two years, true, but I did bring the kids to school & collect them, put them to bed, bath them, did the homeworks, made dinners, did the DIY I've overstated, and she was afforded a lot of freedoms by me being at home - meeting friends, staying overnight after late-night drinks...

Denied things for the family? In the first year I was off, she had many weekeds away visiting relatives, we had a two week family holiday, we maintained our private health insurance, our kids kept up 50% of their after-school activities. In 2010, she had a weekend abroad with friends, more weekeds away visiting relatives, a two week family holiday abroad, a weekend abroad for just the two of us, and the kids still kept up their activities.

On balance, these are NOT reasons to separate from a man - there's something else. There must be. Or am I blind? In denial? Don't understand the significance of things?

When we went to counselling together, we started to touch of some issues that I believe are central to this whole thing - certainly more significant than the failings I'm being hit for. But she refused any more counselling once these things started to surface.

Anyway, none of this is of any help, and isn't really going to change my wife's mind. So I just have to try to accept it all, and see if I can get past that I don't believe it's a valid separation.

It's just not fair that I've conceded my failings and would have done whatever it took to fix my part of the problem, but my wife doesn't recognise any of my comments that she has issues, and should be responsible & mature enough to acknowledge & address them BEFORE carrying on down this road.

In an argument the other day, she said something like "I can't believe that even though your marriage is collapsing, you still won't make an effort." That may strike a chord with some of you who have posted on this thread - maybe I'm making excuses, maybe it is laziness. But there are two key points on that:

1. Before xmas, on foot of me doing every bit of ironing & hoovering for weeks, she said to me with sarcasm, "you think a bit of ironing & hoovering is going to solve this?"

2. In our first marriage counselling session, the counseller asked my wife what it would take for me to change for her to reconsider? My wife's answer was a cold, flat "there's nothing".

So to be hit _weeks_ later with "you still won't make an effort" is both confusing and frustrating.

She's said so many nasty & cruel things to me, all through our relationship, even in times when everything has been going fine, and now during all this. In front of our kids, with the house windows open (we live in a housing estate) - no audience matters, and nothing is off-limits when she gets going.

Do I care enough now? Do I care that this is all happening for wrongly-founded reasons? That what I believe are most likely the real reasons are remaining un-exposed? That she'll regret this so badly when she realises she got it wrong, that she'll have a breakdown? That when our kids grow up, they'll know how this all went down, possibly affecting their feelings about mammy?

It looks like she's seeing someone else. She's set a solicitor on me. Is it past the time when I should be caring about those things?

If she acknowledged what I'm saying about other factors possibly being involved in her mind-set, and accepted that possibility, and attempted to face, address and maybe exorcise those factors, and then _still_ felt that we should separate, I'd then be more comfortable accepting it, though obviously still upset. If she simply couldn't move past our past, _despite trying_, then so be it. But she's not even answering or responding to my suggestions that our past could be a factor.

And to me, that's what makes this whole thing a bona fide tragedy.


Thanks


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## Everything I Own

Syrum said:


> Stop being lazy, put a real effort in, make changes and stick to them.


Syrum (and anyone else who shares this notion) - can you elaborate for me? From what you've read so far, do you see in sentence, or between the lines, that I'm lazy in my response to my wife's course of action? Often it's your criticisms that you learn more from, so I'd like to hear more on this.

Many thanks to all respondents, specially cdbaker. I read your story, and have great empathy for you. I fully accept & understand your position and drive to repair your relationship. Unless yo are particularly good at sales & spin, you sound genuine & sincere. To do a 180-degree turn of core patterns & behaviours, ingrained in your own self, is perhaps the most signifant effort a person can make to show love for someone else. And I truly admire it.

The sex/masturbation addiction issue is, I suspect, an underground, or unspoken epidemic (possibly even pandemic) for most men today. The ease of access to literally any form of porn on the net is such a difficult temptation to resist. Like free, private booze to an alcoholic. To overcome porn-addiction must surely be one of the toughest struggles anyone can face - it's easy, it has no financial cost, it's private, typically no-one knows, so you can't be judged, there's no rejection - the list goes on... Like most men I know (in any capacity - friend, workmate, acquaintance, etc), porn did become a big part of my life, and while I still struggle to resist temptation, I wouldn't call myself addicted. I get aroused very easily, but I can usually shelve the impulse to masturbate, albeit with my mind distracted.

My wife has often partaken in looking at porn with me, and we've fantasized about threesomes, swapping, watching, etc, many times, but only fantasized.

Now with all that's going on with us, I'm just a pervert & a w*!ker. No matter that my wife enjoyed looking with me, it's just me that's the pervert. To be clear, I in no way consider myself to be any form of pervert - I have no interest in anything immoral or illegal. A friend of my wife's once called me "over-sexed". My response at the time was "I wish!", but I hadn't understood what she'd meant. Oversexed aparrently means having a very high sex-drive, and that is true - I do. But I'm not a pervert for it, and I won't be made feel like a pervert for it, which my wife has made me feel. She's very sexy - slim, good-looking, very well groomed & dressed. And in her moments, she's fun & great to be with. But if I caught a glimpse of her thong when she was getting dressed, or if she asked me if a dress or whatever was nice on her, I inevitably became aroused, and the reaction from my wife was one of disgust - I'm a sleazy pervert sicko. For being turned on by my own wife... I used past-tense there: we haven't slept in the same bed since October, though we did make love in mid-October.

Anyway, my point is that my situation, while having similarities, doesn't really mirror yours, cdbaker. I have let my wife down for sure - I read back on my first post and I look at the list of faults in myself, then I read on down, and I seem to become more & more focussed on things I can pick holes in, or that I can defend or refute.

Where I stand now is probably clear already - my wife hates me & wants out. Whether that's my fault, hers, or due to the alignment of the stars, or as my mother claims, a mid-life crisis (life just isn't how my wife expected or hoped it would be, and baling out seems, to her, to be the only course of action that makes sense, or is acceptable), the simple fact is that she can't stand to be in my company. For even a couple of minutes.

After my own counselling session on Tuesday, I now fully realise that my wife is a bully and has been abusive (primarily verbally, but also occasionally mildly physically too) toward me for many years. Unhealthy as it would have been for me personally, and much as I wouldn't want my kids to observe & possibly absorb that behaviour and dynamic between me & my wife, I would have continued with that life till the end. But now, with my wife being so resistant to stepping back & considering that her unhappiness & frustration might not all be down to just me, I'm not really sure I should or can tolerate her bullying & aggression.

One thing that really won't leave my mind too, is that none of her family or friends have contacted me for weeks. If my daughter's/sister's/friend's marriage was collapsing, I'd be getting stuck in to see what I could do to help, or at least to let them both know I was available, and I wouldn't be shy about wanting to know what was going on - they all know we've been together for 20 years. That we have three kids. That this is just all wrong. Rather than just accepting & supporting my wife based on hearing only her side of things, they should be seeking my side too. The early contact from her friends seems to have just fizzled out. I'd be keen to talk with all of her friends & family about all of this, to give them my side, rather than her version of my side. And I'd be equally keen for my wife to talk with all my family & friends to give them her side, and not my version of her side. Why hasn't her father called me? The only words he's spoken to me in all this were before xmas, when I saw him face-to-face for the first time since it broke that my wife wanted out - I shook his hand and said, "I don't know what to say, I'm just sorry this is all happening" He said there was nothing to say, and that they (he & my wife's mother) were "hopeful". Her brother, who introduced us, hasn't contacted me once in all this. Since the start of November! No call, no text, no e-mail. I saw him in his car today & he just waved. Why this radio silence? I want to call them all, or visit them all, and ask "what the f*** is going on?!"

In my heart, I want it alll to work out. I want to show her I care more about her & my family than anything else in my life. Even despite her aggression & hate & cruel verbal attacks. Even if she has been seeing someone else (unless it's a particular someone else, in which case, the next you guys would be hearing from me would be in the news). A lot of what cdbaker says about his wife is so apt for mine - strong, independent, good... Just a good woman. 

But for me to maintain that perspective, I would now need to see my wife admit & address her failings to me, and accept that we have been mirrors to each other for a long time. She feels she's been treated badly, so she treats me badly, and vice versa, and so on...


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## Everything I Own

Everything I Own said:


> _Even if she has been seeing someone else (*unless it's a particular someone else*, in which case, the next you guys would be hearing from me would be in the news)_.


Guess what . . .

She's been seen out & about with this guy. Family, freinds & neighbours have aparrently been aware of rumours, but none have broached it with me because it will be a very serious development if she is with him. I asked her about it calmly, and she got defensive, but admitted they've been out together, and that she enjoys his company, and finds him funny, but says that they're not "together", but that whatever she decides is none of my business.

Without giving detail, I can only say that I'd prefer her to be with a serial murdering sex-offender than this guy. He's known locally as a serial predator - a real charmer - with a string of wrecked marriages behind him. He will charm her, she'll lap it up because she's vulnerable, she'll get drunk, he'll pounce, she'll forever more be another of his conquests, nothing more than another notch, in a club of local women no-one respects, because they were fool enough to fall for this guy, despite knowing his ways. I have to accept that I have no say in her actions now, despite that pain. But let it be anyone on the planet other than this guy.

And despite my own hurt and anxt over this development that I have no words to convey, I still care for _her_ that she doesn't become one of those women that no-one else has any interest in after being with this guy, and also that the mother of my children doesn't become that woman.

She's a grown adult, with her own mind, but I know my wife, and I know men. And I know this particular man very well. But I guess so does my wife - we've discussed him, long before any hint of our marriage ending. And given that she does know him, and what he's like, and that she's choosing to spend time in his company . . .

This might just be too much for me.


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## LongWalk

Hello Everything,

How are you?

BR
LW

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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