# ### Sixth Circle of Hell



## fordracing01 (May 7, 2012)

Hi Folks,

I've posted a few times on this forum across the last two years. Things between my wife and I are at a point where I am not sure that I can really envision a life together.

I've had a wandering road to get to the "sixth circle of hell" which I call it that because I have begun to finally discuss the root issues which have been digging at me. 

We've been married 16 years, and have two kids 9 years old. Many things in our life are great! Not too many stress factors. She is attractive and physically fit. I am in 'good used condition' but I don't run 10-12 miles a week like her :O

Anyway, sex has become an issue. Perhaps it always was? For years I would feel like when she got into bed she would lie there in bed and I would have to peel her away from her side of the bed. Eventually, she would get into it and away the two of us went.

Over the last 2-3 years, I have grown increasingly tired of this and there also been a change in her kisses. Some of the kisses are great!! Had one today that was great! But many of them feel like there is nothing there at all or like she is along for the ride.

She has cute underwear outfits, we go on date nights, we bought a few sex-toy items (which have never been used). 

She has also begun saying things over the last year or so. I've tried to come up with some specific examples and those are like this (in no order)

1. when the two of us were out touring some wineries, and having a lovely day, she somehow got on the topic of "if we divorced". She reminded me that she did live on her on once, that she could support herself, etc/etc. This conversation has happend 2 or 3 times.

2. she has also said things like "i am not the person she married".

3. she told me once that on the day after we got married, when she woke up, she thought "oh my god - what did I do".

4. she has on a number of times (once on vacation at a pretty fancy place) gotten mad at me because she didn't think things went the way she expected them to go in bed. Yells and leaves the room and sleeps somewhere else in the house. this has happened maybe 4 or 5 times over a 2 year span. 

5. the most recent case of item #4 was in september after her birthday. I did a little birthday catered gathering for some friends and family. She went off with her friends for about 3 hours then came back near 11pm and we had to get going to get back to home to relieve our kid sitter. It was about 1:30 before we got to bed. I was tired and little bummed that I didn't see her really on her birthday as she was off with friends. She got very mad that I was tired and told me that she didn't think she wanted to be at this point in her marriage. 

6. On valentines night, just a few days ago, I took us both out of town about an hour away to a Bed-Breakfast type place. It was good evening. When "bedtime" arrived, we were in bed and she was just laying there. I started kissing her and had that feeling again like there was nothing there behind her kisses. She got up to goto the bathroom. When she came back she laid back down in bed noticeably away from me. So I changed my approach again, touching her neck/etc. After a few minutes of that, she said something like "that is working, you need to stop". I didn't stop, kept going, and eventually she got interested and I felt a great difference in her kiss.

So......I started talking to her about this due to some conversations I was having with other women! I have three female friends, and also have been talking to my dad, and a male friend. Not delving into sex details with anyone of them! But more about the things she says and why would someone say to their spouse "you are not the person i married". The two female friends helped prod me along to start talking to her about these things. Yes she knows about the female friends.....She was upset because I changed them name of one of them in my cell phone. She saw some texts and wanted to know what they meant...so I started talking about it. two of the female friends I rarely see and the third one I did see a few times over the summer when i was out of town. SEE as is SEE and catchup and discuss some of our joint marital issues. This friend has been married 18 yrs with kids, I don't think she is too happy in her marriage. Just to clarify here...I saw her. not in a dark alley or for sex. To talk. In hindsight....maybe I should have talked to a therapist sooner (see below .. going this week to one).

So....we've been talking on-and-off about this stuff in Jan and Feb. We were talking again last night. When asking specifically about some of the items I noted above, she said that sometimes she just says things and there is no deeper meaning. That I am overanalyzing things. She told me that she meant "i wasnt the person she married" simply because I have more hobby type interests now than I did 15 or 16 years ago and I do other things besides just stay home. She said that she didn't mean anything by telling me she could live on her own. About valenties night, she said that she figured I was tired so she said stop.

I told her that I wanted some more "active participation". That i've been feeling for years that i had to drag her off of her side of the bed for example. She responded by saying something like "i've never been a pushy girl". She says she puts on a cute outfit and if she doesn't think she gets the right response then she isn't going to try anymore. 

She also told me that she has gotten better and than she will at least "leave the lights on now" instead of always having them be shut off. She said maybe when she is 50 she will be a little more "pushy" as she described it. I am 38 and she is 40. 

I feel like basically her effort is putting on a cute outfit and then everything else is up to me, and If I don't have a response at the right time in the right sequence then things turn out badly. I told her I am at the point where I am basically anxiety ridden about going on date-nights with her because of what combination-code-timing needs to happen so isn't upset or thinks I am not interested. 

I don't know what to do about this. I am going to talk to a therapist tomorrow by myself for some additional advice.

I figured I would ask here more for some insights.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Is Sixth Circle of Hell something you just made up? I'm a google nerd so I checked and only see 9, but it had nothing to do with relationships, lol.

Anyway, back on topic. You seem to be in total control and have communicated with her your issues. Her comments seem slightly testing but nothing that out of the normal. It's almost like you want to make a mountain out of a mole hill, maybe to have something to relate with your friend that isn't in a great marriage. It's always easy to talk about a bad marriage when you can relate to her with your own examples.

In fact, that's toxic in my opinion. 

Changing your friend's name in your phone is a huge no-no. Talking about the bad marriages (yours or hers) is a huge no-no. Meeting up with her to catch up with old times, also a huge no-no. Your wife should be in all meet ups, no matter what. Your wife should also have full transparency on your text messages or emails to this person. And the name in the phone should never be changed for any reason. If there is something to hide, then shame shame.

I may be jumping to conclusions, but I have no woman friend I talk to about my marriage or personal life. I definitely wouldn't be okay with my wife talking to a guy about hers. Would you be? What if she changed his name so you wouldn't know? What if she met up with him just to talk about his bad marriage? 

If you are going to analyse, think about what you've done that seem a bit more hurtful than the few comments she has made.

As far as sex goes, you are right, she should initiate more and always be into it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Circle of hell is from Dante's Inferno.

OP, sounds like you've got some really super bad communication habits going on in your marriage.

While I can't say I blame you for feeling a bit of anxiety about your wife, I feel I should warn you, it is totally unattractive. Unfair, I agree, but it is what it is.

Your wife is not being open or honest with you. When you do talk and she give you these bull sh** examples of not meaning anything by it! call her out for it. Why would she say something so patently designed to cause anxiety over how she feels about you, then claim she didn't mean anything by it? She's fvcking with you. Why? No idea, but she is.

In terms of sex, does she know exactly exactly what you want from her? Do you know, exactly exactly what she wants from you?

I've seen so many posts from men who say their wives lay there, take forever to respond, don't seem to want sex but end up enjoying it... Sex starts HOURS before bed time! You talk dirty to her? Do you describe in hot erotic detail what is on the agenda that night? Do you ever play with her just for the sake of getting her hot and bothered before you even get to the bedroom?

Also, I gotta say, your wife sounds like she may be a closet sexual submissive. Meaning she needs YOU to take the bull by the horns. Order her around tell her what you want her to do, smack her ass....

If your wife wears pretty stuff to bed, what do you say or do when you see it?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There are many posters on this here board where OP's description is only a few chicks short of the 72 requisite chicks for Paradise not the Sixth Circle of Hell...


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

For one, it sounds like she is still sexually immature. I'm 44 and am just learning to be more sexually mature. It's both of your sex lives and you are each other's exclusive lovers. There's no excuse for her expecting you to read her mind. If she wants sex she can tell you she wants sex. It's rather teenage like for her to tell you she wants sex by wearing a cute outfit. You guys have been married 16 years and are middle aged. No need for the cloak and dagger run around. It is her right and responsibility to actively participate in your marriages sex life.

Also, its not right for you to be talking to another female about having sex with your wife. Especially when you change her name in your phone. Really makes the situation look suspicious.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

OP, I believe you are witnessing the first stages of your wife's MLC. There is a lot of support here on TAM and elsewhere: 
Vivian Diller, Ph.D.: The 'New' Midlife Crisis -- and How to Know It's Coming

I'd love to tell you how to get in front of this, but the truth is, I didn't see my fWW's MLC coming. You wife has something on her mind and she needs to work through it (IC). You cannot do this work for her, but you can support her in the process. It's important you declare very clear boundaries for the relationship.


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