# My husband laughs at me when I try to seduce him?



## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

My husband and I have been married for almost two years, and together for almost three. When we first got together the sex was amazing, passionate, and frequent. Almost daily, and then some. We both had a child that we brought to the relationship, and then we decided to get pregnant. Then, almost five months into the pregnancy, the sex started slowing down. Not drastically, just to maybe five nights instead of seven. Then when it went from four to three I brought it up to him. He said it was because he was afraid of hurting the baby. I thought that was a bs answer, because he is one of the more sexually educated men I know. But I let it go.

Fast forward to after our son gets here. Sex is now two nights a week or less. The excuse now? His back hurts. Suddenly, because of the same job he'd had the entire course of our relationship. For a while at this point it had been messing with my self confidence and had me questioning the whole situation. He said he loved me and was attracted to me and wanted me but couldn't physically have sex. 

We married shortly after our son was born. That was in June of 2012. In January of 2013 his mother passed. As bad as I'm about to sound when I say this, that became his crutch. I understand that his loss was unimaginable and seeing as I've never suffered such a loss there was no way to know what he was dealing with. So I did what I could and tried to be understanding and be there for him. Months passed, and the sex morphed into near non existence. Once a week, then once every two weeks, and its now currently at once a month, and that's iffy. But as the months went on it started turning into him not being willing to help with the house, or the kids, and he started avoiding us and stayed until night at work. He would randomly blow up at me and just take what should have been a normal argument for a married couple and went to the extreme, screaming and swearing at me and calling me by his ex wives names and threatening divorce over small things. His constant argument was that I make him feel unappreciated, because he works and I'm m a SAHM. Never mind the spotless house and home made dinners and taking care of the kids and doing my best to make sure he didn't have to lift a finger. But then other times he brags to his friends about how good I take care of him and how special I make him feel. It's such a cluster and so up and down I never know what's going to happen from day to day. 

Nowadays, I've went from feeling shame for asking for sex an being denied, to attempting to seduce him and being totally blown off. He likes to pretend he doesn't notice my advances. Currently, I'll try to flirt with him and be sexy, and he laughs at me like I'm a silly child or something. I just don't know. All I know is being laughed at for trying to be sexy when I lack self confidence anyway just breaks my heart that much more. I've never had thoughts about other men, although sometimes I'd like to, just so I would feel something besides loneliness. I don't think I'd have it in me to be unfaithful, because even after all this, I still love him and want this to work. I just don't know how much more I can take without completely losing my mind, or else losing all interest in my marriage.

I literally have nobody to talk to about this, and after reading some threads on here and seeing similar issues I felt encouraged to register on here and ask for advice and friendship. Can someone please shed some light on this situation for me and maybe offer some advice? And please feel free to be critical. If I'm doing something wrong that needs changing please voice your opinion. 

Thanks.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

One thing you said that resonates with me is blowing something normal into huge and name calling and verbal abuse. My husband does that too. And score keeping. That whole paragraph sounds like my life. Sorry no advice but someone who feels your pain!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> I literally have nobody to talk to about this, and after reading some threads on here and seeing similar issues I felt encouraged to register on here and ask for advice and friendship.


This is SO very very sad for me to hear. I hear something similar from my wife. She feels without me, she would have nobody to confide in. There are so many people around us in this world we take for granted it really frustrates me. If you can find an ear and shoulder here... PLEASE DO SO!



Surviving This Marriage said:


> Can someone please shed some light on this situation for me and maybe offer some advice? And please feel free to be critical.


I don't think you need people being critical, but honest and helpful is what I feel MOST TAM posters try for. That is all anybody can hope for, in conversations. **HOWEVER** Keep in mind you will need at some point in time to COMPLETELY TRUST YOUR HUSBAND!?! You will have to fully open up to him the way you did here. Maybe not now, but in time we all (here on TAM) have to learn how to trust the person you made vows to.



Surviving This Marriage said:


> If I'm doing something wrong that needs changing please voice your opinion.
> 
> Thanks.


You are talking, so that is a start. Now the next question is about ...
*HOW?*
In what manner?
Is it in a manner that allows both of you to gain understanding?
Have both of you dicussed your past (childhood)?
_-Trust me people blow this question off, until their past comes up to bite them!?!?!?_
Do you know about his expectations, versus your expectations?


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Show him this forum and show him your thread.

Perhaps he'll motivated to share.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

How often do you try to initiate sex? How affectionate are you with him and how affectionate is he with you? Who typically imitates the affection? How is he with the kids? How often do you guys spend time alone together?

He stays late at work, blows up at the slightest things, avoids sex with you...?

I would do some serious snooping. Check his email, his text messages, his face book and the history on his phone and PC. If he's not having an affair, he could be obsessed with porn, which would be why he isn't "up" for sex with you.

Men don't loose their sex drives out of the blue. He's either getting it elsewhere or he has a testosterone problem, but you would have noticed lethargy and or weight gain, so that's why I'm thinking he's getting it somewhere else.

Sorry...


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

dsGrazzl3D said:


> You are talking, so that is a start. Now the next question is about ...
> *HOW?*
> In what manner?
> Is it in a manner that allows both of you to gain understanding?
> ...


There have been times I feel like I've approached the situation in a calm, reasonable manner, and other times I've used an approach akin to verbally kicking him in the face. I mean if I'm being honest about it. 

When I get mad and say what's exactly in my head I usually hear snide remarks such as "well I'm sorry I work all day while you're home and I'm more tired than you", or "I'm sorry my mom died (insert number of months here) ago and sex isn't the first thing on my mind". Or "I'll tell you what, trade places with me for a day and see if you want sex. You wouldn't even last a whole day in my shoes." 

When I take a more calm approach and actually think about what I want to say, he either just apologizes ands strays away from the subject, or says he doesn't know why he feels this way. He won't talk about it because he says he isn't good at talking. 

I'm at a loss.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> How often do you try to initiate sex? How affectionate are you with him and how affectionate is he with you? Who typically imitates the affection? How is he with the kids? How often do you guys spend time alone together?
> 
> He stays late at work, blows up at the slightest things, avoids sex with you...?
> 
> ...


I've attempted to initiate sex, but I started feeling so rejected that the idea of even trying made me feel sick. He's all about cuddling. The second we get in bed he's all for the cuddling and I think it's his way of saying "no sex". 

I pretty much gave up on kisses and such when it started to feel like I was kissing a wax doll. (Unresponsive, uninterested, the like). By then it had been reduced to goodbye kisses, so I more or less started avoiding them all together. My reason: I felt worse after kissing him because those kisses began to feel like rations,and the few times we would have sex I could predict when it would happen and almost exactly how it would go, because suddenly a routine sex started happening. (Shower, walk out of bathroom naked, get in bed and rub up against me, then indicate he wanted oral, wham bam thank you ma'am.) Immediately after sex I would start crying hysterically. He never noticed or else chose not to. Either way, I know how messed up that is. 

As far as the kids, it's as if they're a bother. I'm the over paranoid mom who is very picky and cautious with them, whereas he just acts toward them the way a cat person would act when handed a puppy. He never enjoys them. 

I've steeped his phone, Facebook, etc. No dice. His stories check out, and I think when he is late it's more of avoiding me than hooking up. 

Ready for a mega cliche? 

I know he isn't cheating. Never once have I even suspected that because he truly isn't that kind of man. He thinks it's low down and inexcusable, and he's too much of a man for something like that. His words: "if I'm gonna cheat, I'm just going to tell you what I'm heading out to do, and if you're still here when I get home then we'll talk about it" (thus putting the ball in my court)

I'm not buying the testosterone thing, because up until mom passed his behavior and weight outside of the bedroom was was the same, just what happened inside the bedroom drastically changed. I've mentioned being tested, he refuses. No therapy, because she already knows what the therapist would stay. Blah blah. 

Throwing myself at him is old news because it seemed to irk him.
Avoiding him doesn't seem to have much of an effect either.

I am unable to cheat, because I refuse to be that sort of example to my children. 

Right now I'm failing to see what my options are.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

That sounds horrible! I couldn't nor wouldn't stay in that kind of marriage.

Your choices are: 
1. Keep doing the same as you've always done and wait for it to get better on it's own. Assuming it doesn't get worse or simply stay horrible.
2. Brow beat him to going to the doctor and to therapy. Which will take loads of time and cause lots of arguments.
3. Give him an ultimatum. Get help or get out.

Yes, marriage is for life but the vows didn't include either spouse emotionally abandoning the other. Perhaps he's had some emotional upsets with the death of his mother, but that alone isn't going to make him sexless.

So, how much of this can you take? Only you will know when you've had enough.

The trouble is, when you've had enough and are initiating divorce, that's when they usually get their head out of their ass. Are you the kind of person who can come back from that? If you can, super take your time. If you're not the sooner you deliver the ultimatum, the sinner you'll have a marriage back. 

Sometimes you have to be willing to loose something in order to keep it. What you've got right now...not worth keeping.


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## rustytheboyrobot (Nov 20, 2013)

Tried to respond but this thread is entirely too triggering.

Good luck.


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

rustytheboyrobot said:


> Tried to respond but this thread is entirely too triggering.
> 
> Good luck.



What exactly does this mean?


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

So sorry you are going through this. My heart breaks for you. As a male, I can attest that most of us love sex and love our wives sexy bodies. I would sit down with him and tell him how crazy this is making you. Tell him your needs and feelings and ask him to tell you his.

That's just a start to see if this is just mismatched expectations or is he in denial and clearly hiding something

His answers would tell me much. If he's staying late at work, it could be an affair, or indulging in drugs or alcohol. Which could impact sexual desire

Have either of you gained a lot of weight?

Have that talk and let us know how it goes. My thoughts are with you friend


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> So, how much of this can you take? Only you will know when you've had enough.
> 
> The trouble is, when you've had enough and are initiating divorce, that's when they usually get their head out of their ass. Are you the kind of person who can come back from that? If you can, super take your time. If you're not the sooner you deliver the ultimatum, the sinner you'll have a marriage back.
> 
> Sometimes you have to be willing to loose something in order to keep it. What you've got right now...not worth keeping.


I agree. I've tried pushing the issue with seeing the doctor and there for a while he was going regularly, but then just stopped and now he won't even take his meds. Hasn't in about two weeks now. 

I've considered an ultimatum, but I know my husband, and I also know that if it came down to it and I did that, he'd call my bluff and tell me to leave, because he'd rather save face than have a woman tell him what to do. "He's a grown man and he makes his own decisions." And all that. 

So I don't know. Maybe I should just find my big girl panties and pack my things and go.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Yes, I could see that he would just let you go considering how you describe his behavior above. But maybe after a month or two he will not think it was such a good idea ...or maybe you will see that you are better off without him.

Not taking care of himself (not taking his meds) makes him sound depressed. 

So he never wants sex or he wants sex a couple times a week? 

Maybe the high frequency is just not working for him at the moment and the lack of enthusiasm for kissing and so forth and wanting cuddles is to turn you off of sex and replace it with cuddling.

As much as I would like sex every other day or so my wife is a once a week person and trying to drive an LD person into more sex than they want is not easy so I try for quality over quantity.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

So the sex started dropping off when you really started showing your pregnancy and then dropped off even more when you became a mother? It may be that he has some Madonna/wh*re issues. The extreme fixation he still seems to have with his mother's death may also point to that. Most normal guys love their mothers. Most don't, however, use her death as an excuse to avoid sex with their wives months after the funeral. And the adamant refusal to have a woman "tell him what to do" also sounds like mommy issues and a fear of engulfment. I think there's something going on with him, emotionally, that you aren't really equipped to help with. 

And it's not like lack of sex is the only issue. It sounds like he's being an ass outside the bedroom as well. What you're describing of your marriage is no way to spend your life. And it's also no way to raise your children. Would you want your daughter to be treated this way by her husband? Would you want your son to treat his wife this way? If not, then you are going to have to stop modeling this marital dynamic for your children.

I would say that you need to get into marriage counseling, if at all possible. My guess is that a competent marriage counselor would also recommend individual counseling for him, perhaps for both of you. You may have to issue an ultimatum to get him to go to counseling with you. But if you do it, be truly prepared to follow through and leave if he won't agree to counseling. As sad as it is, it just may be that you and his family are not more important to him than being "right" and being "a grown man who makes his own decisions." If that's the case, it's better to know that now before you waste more years of your life on someone who is incapable of being a good partner and is happy to stay dysfunctional.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Rowan said:


> So the sex started dropping off when you really started showing your pregnancy and then dropped off even more when you became a mother? It may be that he has some Madonna/wh*re issues. The extreme fixation he still seems to have with his mother's death may also point to that. Most normal guys love their mothers. Most don't, however, use her death as an excuse to avoid sex with their wives months after the funeral. And the adamant refusal to have a woman "tell him what to do" also sounds like mommy issues and a fear of engulfment. I think there's something going on with him, emotionally, that you aren't really equipped to help with.
> 
> And it's not like lack of sex is the only issue. It sounds like he's being an ass outside the bedroom as well. What you're describing of your marriage is no way to spend your life. And it's also no way to raise your children. Would you want your daughter to be treated this way by her husband? Would you want your son to treat his wife this way? If not, then you are going to have to stop modeling this marital dynamic for your children.
> 
> I would say that you need to get into marriage counseling, if at all possible. My guess is that a competent marriage counselor would also recommend individual counseling for him, perhaps for both of you. You may have to issue an ultimatum to get him to go to counseling with you. But if you do it, be truly prepared to follow through and leave if he won't agree to counseling. As sad as it is, it just may be that you and his family are not more important to him than being "right" and being "a grown man who makes his own decisions." If that's the case, it's better to know that now before you waste more years of your life on someone who is incapable of being a good partner and is happy to stay dysfunctional.


Before I really try go reply, what does Madonna/wh*** mean?


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

Rowan said:


> So the sex started dropping off when you really started showing your pregnancy and then dropped off even more when you became a mother? It may be that he has some Madonna/wh*re issues. The extreme fixation he still seems to have with his mother's death may also point to that. Most normal guys love their mothers. Most don't, however, use her death as an excuse to avoid sex with their wives months after the funeral. And the adamant refusal to have a woman "tell him what to do" also sounds like mommy issues and a fear of engulfment. I think there's something going on with him, emotionally, that you aren't really equipped to help with.
> 
> And it's not like lack of sex is the only issue. It sounds like he's being an ass outside the bedroom as well. What you're describing of your marriage is no way to spend your life. And it's also no way to raise your children. Would you want your daughter to be treated this way by her husband? Would you want your son to treat his wife this way? If not, then you are going to have to stop modeling this marital dynamic for your children.
> 
> I would say that you need to get into marriage counseling, if at all possible. My guess is that a competent marriage counselor would also recommend individual counseling for him, perhaps for both of you. You may have to issue an ultimatum to get him to go to counseling with you. But if you do it, be truly prepared to follow through and leave if he won't agree to counseling. As sad as it is, it just may be that you and his family are not more important to him than being "right" and being "a grown man who makes his own decisions." If that's the case, it's better to know that now before you waste more years of your life on someone who is incapable of being a good partner and is happy to stay dysfunctional.


:iagree: I see the Madonna/***** issues as well. 

I think that since the Madonna/***** dichotomy is present, IC would be the best place to start.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Is he very nice to you sometimes and then very critical? Does he seem to switch suddenly? Does he get along with his family? The cruelty and over-the-top nature of his attacks may indicate that he has personality disorder. 

He may have hidden who he really is during the courtship because he knew the real person was not loving or lovable. 

Knowledge is power. There is a TAM member Uptown who is good at guiding people who are married to possible personality disordered person. 

No matter what his problem, it may be better to be less defendant on him. How do you feel about going back to work and concentrate on personal success. 

I don't think it is wise to put yourself in a position of dependence on a man who is treating you poorly. Make sure that leaving the relationship and supporting yourself and your children is an option.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Sex between partners in marriage is an emotional bonding based on emotional transference. If one or both partners are emotionally unhealthy, the sex life has to reflect this. I suggest what you need is for your partner to take responsibility for his psychological well-being.

One basic covenant in marriage is that each partner must own their responsibility for their psychological health. You cannot do this work for your partner. You need to establish and communicate this boundary to your partner. You can choose to do this in a loving way, or in a confrontation way (fear based). 

-I love you as a husband and as the father our children. 
-I feel (hopeless, worthless, abandoned etc.) and I feel the emotional distance growing between us. 
-I am going to IC to take responsibility for me and my side of this relationship. 
-I love you and I need you to own the same for yourself.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> So I don't know. Maybe I should just find my big girl panties and pack my things and go.


I think Catherine was dead on with her suggestion of a personality disorder. Uptown will be invaluable but you must understand, there isn't a damn thing YOU can do about it except grow and intellectual understanding of what is going on. If that is enough to protect your sense of self worth, enough to keep you grounded, enough to keep you feeling fulfilled, then it's a simply matter of turning the next page.

But we all need love returned in a minimum amount. I vote for what you wrote above.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Is he very nice to you sometimes and then very critical? Does he seem to switch suddenly? Does he get along with his family? The cruelty and over-the-top nature of his attacks may indicate that he has personality disorder.
> 
> He may have hidden who he really is during the courtship because he knew the real person was not loving or lovable.
> 
> ...


He gets along great with his family on his dad's side. Has several brothers and they're all married with kids and seem to be doing great. 

As far as going back to work, right now we have one working vehicle and its his work truck, and I'm not qualified to work anywhere that would be worth the trouble after paying for child care. As I've mentioned, I'm that picky mom that really struggles to trust just anyone with my kids and I honestly don't think I could adjust to being away from them like that. I haven't worked in three years. My daughter is four and my son is almost two. I felt like I wasn't contributing enough to the household but he insists it's okay. 

The strange thing, is sometimes it seems like he really puts an effort into working things out. He tries extra hard to be nice and goes the extra mile on special occasions to make them special. But even then, it's like we don't know what to say to each other. We fight when we're mad, but when we're not angry with each other then we don't have much to say.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

*Update:* I attempted a conversation with him earlier. I started by telling him how hard it was to communicate with him and how I always tried to avoid fights with him just by keeping my mouth shut. His response? "Fine. When do you want to part ways?" I said "excuse me?" And he said if I'm not going to talk to him then there's no point in being together. So we went back and fourth about it until I just got fed up and asked him when he wanted to part ways. 

Then out of the blue he just looked at the fish tank and said "Why is Daisy laying down?" (Daisy is my Oscar). I panicked and checked on the fish and totally got distracted. After that he fell asleep and now he's at work. 

Any input?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sounds like an evil genius! He tosses a vague threat to shut you up you catch and toss right back, so he moves onto something else to keep you from pinning him down. 

Plan a day and time to talk and follow through. Call him on all of his blustering bluffs. Frankly, it doesn't sound like he actually wants to be married. My sisters first husband did this on every single argument. "Maybe we should just divorce then!" Until the day she said, fine lets divorce. Next day they began the proceedings. 

I can't imagine living like this. It must be incredibly hurtful! Either way, whether you two split or he gets help, it has to stop!

Until then, read up on BPD.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Sounds like an evil genius! He tosses a vague threat to shut you up you catch and toss right back, so he moves onto something else to keep you from pinning him down.
> 
> Plan a day and time to talk and follow through. Call him on all of his blustering bluffs. Frankly, it doesn't sound like he actually wants to be married. My sisters first husband did this on every single argument. "Maybe we should just divorce then!" Until the day she said, fine lets divorce. Next day they began the proceedings.
> 
> ...


Well, I knew from word go that he had some issues with his brain from an injury a few years back. Also, he fought over seas and sustained enough injuries to concern the doctor. She suggested being tested for a tbi, and back when he was in the accident that caused further damage the doc told him that certain emotions would be very difficult to cope with and work through. The way he described it, is he has all these thoughts in his head that are moving so fast he can't seem to slow them down enough to just "grab" one and talk about it. 
But none of this reared its head until the last year and a half or so.

I can't believe I didn't mention this before. It totally space until you mentioned bpd. I apologize.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> Well, I knew from word go that he had some issues with his brain from an injury a few years back. Also, he fought over seas and sustained enough injuries to concern the doctor. She suggested being tested for a tbi, and back when he was in the accident that caused further damage the doc told him that certain emotions would be very difficult to cope with and work through. The way he described it, is he has all these thoughts in his head that are moving so fast he can't seem to slow them down enough to just "grab" one and talk about it.
> But none of this reared its head until the last year and a half or so.
> 
> I can't believe I didn't mention this before. It totally space until you mentioned bpd. I apologize.


Off to the psychiatrist with you then. He's going to need special help to identify his emotions and express them, also to communicate. I'm surprised his behavior isn't at least a little bit erratic.

And yeah... Wouldn't been good to mention up front a TBI!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> He had some issues with his brain from an injury a few years back. Also, he fought over seas and sustained enough injuries to concern the doctor. She suggested being tested for a tbi, and back when he was in the accident that caused further damage the doc told him that certain emotions would be very difficult to cope with and work through. The way he described it, is he has all these thoughts in his head that are moving so fast he can't seem to slow them down enough to just "grab" one and talk about it.


STM, I agree with Catherine and Pink that your H may be exhibiting a few strong traits of a PD (personality disorder) such as BPD. Some behaviors you describe -- i.e., the temper tantrums, verbal abuse, cold withdrawal, and rapid dwindling of sex after the marriage -- are classic warning signs for BPD. You are not describing two key symptoms of BPD, however. 

Namely, you are not describing a great fear of abandonment, which would be most evident in irrational jealousy or attempts to isolate you away from other people. Nor do you describe any fear of engulfment, a suffocating feeling that BPDers feel during or immediately after intimacy. I nonetheless suggest you read my list at 18 Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, you will find a more detailed description of them in my post in Maybe's Thread. 

Yet, even if your H is exhibiting most BPD traits, this would NOT imply he "has BPD." I note that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD symptoms, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD (and the other PDs) is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means that we all have it to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether he exhibits all of the BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits most of those symptoms at a strong and persistent level. Not having met him, I cannot know the answer to that question. And, as I noted above, I am skeptical because you've not mentioned two key warning signs (fear of abandonment, fear of engulfment). Moreover, the most important defining trait for BPD -- emotional instability -- may be present but you don't describe it very clearly.

Importantly, because all of us occasionally exhibit BPD traits, it is common for each of us to exhibit a "flare-up" of those traits that can last for a couple of years. The most common cause is a strong hormone change, as occurs during puberty, pregnancy, or postpartum. This flare-up of BPD symptoms also can be caused by a head injury like that experienced by your H. In these cases -- where the cause is hormones or a brain injury -- the BPD traits are not said to constitute the disorder itself. Instead, they are said to be a flare-up. In order to "have BPD," the person must have strong traits that have persisted for years. 

Hence, if you really are seeing strong BPD traits, an important issue is whether these symptoms started showing in the teens (and thus have been persistent) or, instead, started showing only after the head injury occurred three years ago. When a person has the lifetime full-blown disorder, the traits typically start showing very strongly in the early teens and then -- absent years of treatment -- persist for a lifetime. The only time BPD traits may entirely vanish is during the courtship period, at which time the BPDer's infatuation holds both of his fears at bay. 

After infatuation evaporates, however, those fears return and the BPD traits start appearing again. At issue, then, is whether you are seeing most BPD traits at a strong level; whether they started at the end of your courtship period or, rather, after the head injury; and whether he experienced abuse or abandonment in early childhood. It would be very helpful if you would answer those questions. 

I further suggest that, in addition to reading about BPD warning signs, you also read about those for alexithymia which is caused by head injury. A recent study found that such brain injuries cause a deficiency in identifying, understanding, processing, and describing emotions in 61% of the individuals having a TBI. See Alexithymia and emotional empathy fo... [J Clin Exp Neuropsychol. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI. 
Alexithymia is defined by:


difficulty identifying feelings and distinguishing between feelings and the bodily sensations of emotional arousal
difficulty describing feelings to other people
constricted imaginal processes, as evidenced by a scarcity of fantasies
a stimulus-bound, externally oriented cognitive style.
Although alexithymia can produce some symptoms resembling a PD, it is not considered to be a PD in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5). Instead, it is listed as a "personality construct" characterized by the inability to identify and describe emotions in the self. Core characteristics of alexithymia are marked dysfunction in emotional awareness, social attachment, and interpersonal relationship.

In any event, I strongly recommend that -- if you find most of the BPD warning signs very familiar -- you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your children are dealing with. I say "all by yourself" because, whenever BPD is a strong possibility, it is important to see a professional who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR best interests, not those of your H. Take care, STM.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> Before I really try go reply, what does Madonna/wh*** mean?


He's referring to the problems men have when they start seeing their wife as a mother instead. Some men can't separate these things and see their wife as a sexual being and a good mother at the same time. So they choose one or the other.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Off to the psychiatrist with you then. He's going to need special help to identify his emotions and express them, also to communicate. I'm surprised his behavior isn't at least a little bit erratic.
> 
> And yeah... Wouldn't been good to mention up front a TBI!


To be honest, I spaced it because it was something the doctor recommended a while ago and that was just one more thing that slipped through the cracks.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Uptown said:


> STM, I agree with Catherine and Pink that your H may be exhibiting a few strong traits of a PD (personality disorder) such as BPD. Some behaviors you describe -- i.e., the temper tantrums, verbal abuse, cold withdrawal, and rapid dwindling of sex after the marriage -- are classic warning signs for BPD. You are not describing two key symptoms of BPD, however.
> 
> Namely, you are not describing a great fear of abandonment, which would be most evident in irrational jealousy or attempts to isolate you away from other people. Nor do you describe any fear of engulfment, a suffocating feeling that BPDers feel during or immediately after intimacy. I nonetheless suggest you read my list at 18 Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, you will find a more detailed description of them in my post in Maybe's Thread.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information. To answer your questions, he has never been a jealous person at all, even in the beginning, and I don't think he's got abandonment issues, at least none that I've seen. When he was younger his dad cheated on his mom shortly after she had him with the babysitter. (He was the kids his dad never wanted) when his dad married the babysitter and divorced his mom, his dad took my husband's older brother, the first born, to live with him. My H saw his dad on weekends and eventually his dad's marriage to the babysitter ended after finding out she was abusing my husband. Over the course of the year's his mother developed a serious prescription medication addiction that ruled and ultimately caused the end of her life. 
I really started noticing his strange anger issues during one of our first actual fights. He wanted to go to a friend's house and it was lat and I just wanted to get home. Then he started saying he had a headache and I said to take some Aleve. He misheard me ans thought I said to go to his friends, because then he flew off the handle and started going on about how he's a grown a$$ man and will do what he wants and what not. We had known each other for a year before we got together, and none of this behavior ever surfaced. 
It got to the point where these arguments were less about working out our disagreement and more about who could be most hurtful. Some of his favorite lines were "f*** you", and "you're f****** ridiculous". And going on about how I'm acting like his ex wives. He says there's a difference between saying I'm "being" a b**** and actually calling me one. I disagree. 
On one occasion he kicked my big seven months pregnant butt out of bed for giving up on the current fight and just saying "whatever."
There has been one single time in the course of our relationship where he apologized to me without any pushing on my part. It was Christmas day and we were home getting ready for our first family Christmas in our home. My side as well as his we're coming. He couldn't find the other potatoes peeler and when I stopped what I was doing to get it for him, he got mad because I had a spot to prep food and he didn't. He continued to get more belligerent and started threatening to leave me here to do this myself. By this time my infant son is crying from him yelling, an my oldest has retreated to his room because he is scared. I keep calm and continue peeling potatoes and refuse to fight with him until he grabs the hand that was holding the peeler and twisted my wrist back farther farther until I lost my grip, then he threw the peeler in the sink hard enough to snap it. I told him he wouldn't ever lay his hands on me like that again, and he took off and he got his coat and shoes and made to leave. He stopped at the door and said "well aren't you going to stop me?" Am I told him no because I ha things I needed to get done and if he wanted to leave that was his choice. Then he came back in and we got back to work, and I didn't speak to him. More and more people started showing up and I just went about my business until he finally cornered me in the bedroom. He said he was sorry, he was just really stressed out because he was nervous about his (you guessed it) mom coming to dinner and he took it out on me. 

I've tried suggesting therapy and he completely refuses. I'm completely dependant on him financially speaking, and even if I had the nerve to go see a therapist on my own, where would I find the time? He won't keep the kids and on the rare occasions that he does I'm worried about whether they're being paid attention or if he's just staring at his video games so I don't like to do that too much. To add to that, I have. Foster daughter to care for so there's that much more to put before my self. 

* he has a great relationship with his dad now. He's actually the favorite and they both would do anything to help the other. It's a better relationship than what I see between most men and their parents. 
Also, he isn't this way towards others. Ever. It's like a switch flips and the smiling, happy man I fell for is there again. Just not for me.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Theseus said:


> He's referring to the problems men have when they start seeing their wife as a mother instead. Some men can't separate these things and see their wife as a sexual being and a good mother at the same time. So they choose one or the other.


In that case I'm screwed. I do everything, from tending to the house and the kids (all normal SAHM responsibilities). I also do all hi running for him, make all his phone calls and try to I'd everything to suit him. I'm a freakin gopher.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sweetheart, you MUST find a way to get some professional help. Your husbands childhood was traumatic and certainly not a good model on how one conducts oneself within the confines of a "loving family." On top of this, he has a TBI which makes emotional regulation very difficult. As evidenced by how quickly he escalates and how quickly he moves on to something else. HE must have professional help. Call the VA and see about getting help through one of their TBI programs. Call the wounded warriors project and if they can help I'm certain they can direct you to getting help.

Do you have neighbors who might keep the kids for 2-3 hours once a week while you attend therapy?

You describe a pattern of very childish emotional outbursts that might be appropriate for 7-10 year old, but this is happening within a mans full grown body! He could easily have snapped your wrist! 

You came here looking for help with your sex life but what you really need is help because you are being abused. Your husband isn't the classic abuser due to his brain injury but that doesn't mean he is less dangerous.

Please start making those calls Monday morning? Google VA traumatic Brain Injury and your state. Also google Wounded Warrior and see if they have a chapter near you. If all else fails, and I really hope the VA steps the hell up and takes care of your husband, call the local women's shelter and ask them about getting help for your husband the VET who suffered TBI while serving over seas. They might be able to find you something as well as help you getting your own feet on solid ground.

Please keep posting so I know how things are going? You are now on my worry list and I'm too old to keep adding to this list. So update often...okay?


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Sweetheart, you MUST find a way to get some professional help. Your husbands childhood was traumatic and certainly not a good model on how one conducts oneself within the confines of a "loving family." On top of this, he has a TBI which makes emotional regulation very difficult. As evidenced by how quickly he escalates and how quickly he moves on to something else. HE must have professional help. Call the VA and see about getting help through one of their TBI programs. Call the wounded warriors project and if they can help I'm certain they can direct you to getting help.
> 
> Do you have neighbors who might keep the kids for 2-3 hours once a week while you attend therapy?
> 
> ...


I promise to keep posting. Because of all of these positive and encouraging responses I've made the decision to man up and own my life an improve my circumstances, something I wouldn't have done without the help from all of you. Thank you for being the first to finally hear me. I'll update tomorrow with news on how my conversation with my husband goes.


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

*Re: Re: My husband laughs at me when I try to seduce him?*



Surviving This Marriage said:


> I promise to keep posting. Because of all of these positive and encouraging responses I've made the decision to man up and own my life an improve my circumstances, something I wouldn't have done without the help from all of you. Thank you for being the first to finally hear me. I'll update tomorrow with news on how my conversation with my husband goes.


Yeah we are pretty awesome here at TAM. Just kidding... good luck and let us know how it goes


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> Well, I knew from word go that he had some issues with his brain from an injury a few years back. Also, he fought over seas and sustained enough injuries to concern the doctor. She suggested being tested for a tbi, and back when he was in the accident that caused further damage the doc told him that certain emotions would be very difficult to cope with and work through. The way he described it, is he has all these thoughts in his head that are moving so fast he can't seem to slow them down enough to just "grab" one and talk about it.
> But none of this reared its head until the last year and a half or so.


STM, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Initially, I thought that your H is simply an abuser, but the above suggests that he has a condition that causes him to abuse... Whatever the scenario, though, the effects on you will be the same and just as intolerable.

My first suggestion would be seeking professional help in order to ascertain what his problem actually is. If he's reluctant or refuses to go down this route, however, I would start considering my options. You're way to young to resign yourself to a life with a man who behaves like your H.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

STM, again, I encourage you to follow the two links I provided above. One points to a list of 18 BPD warning signs and the other point to my post explaining them in more detail. I believe it may be worth your while to see if most of those warning signs sound very familiar. I say this because the abandonment your H experienced in early childhood (by his own dad), together with the abuse he experienced from his stepmother, may have resulted in strong traits of a PD like BPD.

The other possibility, as I and other respondents noted above, is that his behavioral problems are caused by a TBI, resulting in a condition like alexithymia. I agree with Pink and others who are urging you to find a way to see a professional who can determine whether it is TBI or strong traits of a personality disorder that seems to be the cause. An important issue, of course, is whether his angry outbursts started appearing before his head injury several years ago -- or after that injury occurred.


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## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> I told him he wouldn't ever lay his hands on me like that again, and he took off and he got his coat and shoes and made to leave. He stopped at the door and said "well aren't you going to stop me?"


That is not normal. That is some kind of weird scene from (his childhood?) that he's trying to relive. Perhaps something his mom and dad acted out many times.



> I've tried suggesting therapy and he completely refuses. I'm completely dependant on him financially speaking,


People who need help the most will refuse to believe they need it. They're also the first to give up their medication because they think they're finally feeling fine. Get him to see he needs help.

Talk to his dad. Tell him he twisted your arm over a potato peeler. Tell him he kicked your ass out of bed when you were 7 months pregnant. Tell him his son needs help, and might only listen to his dad.

As far as you feeling too dependent on him? If you were to start divorce proceedings, you would be entitled to half. I'm not saying that's an awesome life, but it shouldn't be the reason stopping you from getting away from a miserable life if you chose that path.

Keep talking to him. Keep chipping away. 
It seems like you're finding out more and more each time you do.

There are a lot of posts on this site that revolve around not enough sex. ANd there's comments about how this could be a breech in marriage vows, etc. But it's complicated. But a wife wanting her husband to talk to her? That's a bare minimum requirement, I think we can all agree. Headaches, or I'm-too-tired excuses just don't cut it. It's not too much to ask for, so ask for it.

And keep calling him on his BS answers. When he throws out the "we should just split up" deflections, don't take it at face value. Just tell him he's being too chickensh1t to answer the question, too afraid of his own feelings, that he'd rather walk away from a marriage?


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

*UPDATE*

Sorry for taking so long to post, things have been super hectic here lately. Sooo... I told him how I felt about things, how much the issues in our marriage bothered me and what I though needed to change. I asked him what he would do if I ever really did leave after he threatened divorce during one of our fights. His answer: "I don't know". 

He didn't get mean or angry,he wasn't sarcastic or rude. He mostly just agreed to everything I said and told me it made sense why I felt that way. 

It did bother me that the entire time I was talking he was playing a game on his phone. It was really distracting. Part of the reason I feel like he's always somewhere else. So idk. 

Any thoughts? :scratchhead:

Also, in regards to the lack of sex and intimacy, I told him we need to make love making a priority at least twice a week, and that I needed to know that he wants me too. (Flirting, holding hands with me, things like that). Mostly kind of touching on the little things that will eventually lead to huge problems in the marriage an how they really need attention.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay well that s really good that you talked to him and laid everything out.

But I though you were going to call in some professionals? A psychiatrist? The V.A.? Wounded Warrior Project?


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> It did bother me that the entire time I was talking he was playing a game on his phone. It was really distracting. Part of the reason I feel like he's always somewhere else. So idk.
> 
> Any thoughts? :scratchhead:


Maybe he finds the conversation uncomfortable and the phone game was a way for him to avoid eye contact and put up a little defensive shield?

Maybe he has low self-esteem and so expects that you would want to leave the marriage and being indifferent about it is just another defense on his part or maybe he really just does not care. 

I agree with others that he needs professional help.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

NotTooSure said:


> I have a question for all the posters here, and I mean this seriously not sarcastically or mean or anything. But why when a guy posts a similar story the responses are "Stop being a doormat", and that they have the problem. I do not see that here? I can understand why no one did after the TBI came out but what about before?


I don't know what you mean. The responses seemed pretty typical to me. I suppose the responses do vary some by the "feel" of the original post and not so much by gender. So people who come off as whinny, bitter, selfish, etc.. probably get less compassionate responses. I guess guys are expected to not be passive as much as women are.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

NotTooSure said:


> STM I can feel for the behavior you are receiving, like you mentioned there are so many posts like this here.
> 
> I have a question for all the posters here, and I mean this seriously not sarcastically or mean or anything. But why when a guy posts a similar story the responses are "Stop being a doormat", and that they have the problem. I do not see that here? I can understand why no one did after the TBI came out but what about before?
> 
> I am truly sorry for for mentioning this here, I just don't understand.


I'm glad you asked this question. Each time I respond to a sexless marriage post, I try to be aware of how I might answer the OP if they were the opposite sex.

One fact remains impossible to overcome. Men have testosterone that fuels their sex drive and women don't, or don't have equivalent testosterone levels so a woman's sex drive is fueled by other factors more heavily than a man. As a result, when a woman posts about a sexless marriage the answers are very different than when a man posts.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

Go suck off one of his buddies and see if he laughs about that too.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Okay well that s really good that you talked to him and laid everything out.
> 
> But I though you were going to call in some professionals? A psychiatrist? The V.A.? Wounded Warrior Project?


He's still saying no way to the therapy. "There's nothing they could tell him that he doesn't already know" and so on. He's a very proud man, and I think that plays a huge part in his refusal to go.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> He's still saying no way to the therapy. "There's nothing they could tell him that he doesn't already know" and so on. He's a very proud man, and I think that plays a huge part in his refusal to go.


This is where boundaries come into play! This where enabling, your enabling, has to be recognized and stopped. This is why YOU must get into therapy so you learn boundaries and enabling and can assert one while stomping out the other.

Your problems won't be fixed just by him getting help, although they will lessen to a great extent. But you can't force him into therapy. You can only fix yourself and learn your boundaries and learn to not enable.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Surviving This Marriage said:


> It was really distracting. Part of the reason I feel like he's always somewhere else.


If he has strong BPD traits, the practice of escaping reality into daydreaming or other distractions is very common -- so much so that the BPDers' spouses frequently complain that the BPDers cannot remember conversations they had just a day or two earlier. This is why, in BPD therapies like DBT and CBT, one of the first skills that is taught is "mindfulness," i.e., how to remain in the room and in the "present" instead of escaping into daydreams. Yet, again, this same behavior could be caused by the brain trauma. Did you ever read my list of 18 BPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar?


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

If he's not careful he will laugh you right into the arms of another man. Getting turned on and wanting sex with someone that puts you down or laughs at you is hard. It turns sex into a job.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Uptown said:


> If he has strong BPD traits, the practice of escaping reality into daydreaming or other distractions is very common -- so much so that the BPDers' spouses frequently complain that the BPDers cannot remember conversations they had just a day or two earlier. This is why, in BPD therapies like DBT and CBT, one of the first skills that is taught is "mindfulness," i.e., how to remain in the room and in the "present" instead of escaping into daydreams. Yet, again, this same behavior could be caused by the brain trauma. Did you ever read my list of 18 BPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar?


Yes, I did. IMO there weren't enough similarities between how he acts and the list of traits.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

If its not his brain injury then I can tell from experience he's not telling you something. Either he's unhappy with his situation or he's unhappy with you. Some guys don't really like the restrictions of family life. Sometime a domesticated man doesn't feel like a man at all. It could be finances or his job as well. I don't know what it is, but his actions indicate disatisfaction. There are two things a man needs to want to have long term sex with a women. 

Attraction
Respect 

Sometimes waiting on a man hand and foot can cause that man to lose respect. Did you change dramitically after the babies?

peace


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I noticed he has a child from a previous relationship and has mentioned an ex wife/wives. I'd have to wonder if you talked to these other women if you'd hear them tell you the same story that you've told here. After all, he's telling you that you are just like them whenever it gets heated between you. It may be that he'll repeat this cycle in his relationships for the rest of his life because he refuses to change. I see you are thinking this is a change that happened during your pregnancy, but I think it's more likely that he was following his normal cycle within a relationship. So far every one of those cycles has ended in the relationship failing. Hopefully you can get beyond that point, but it's going to require him making the choice to break the cycle, and he doesn't seem willing to do that.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

Enginerd said:


> Sometimes waiting on a man hand and foot can cause that man to lose respect. Did you change dramitically after the babies?
> 
> peace


Not that I can tell, no. I already had my one year old daughter before we even got together. I've always been protective of them, maybe a little too much, and there's always been some tension between us because of it. But I've always been the maternal type, taking care of others, him included. I probably made him feel a little back burner for a short time after baby was born, but what mother doesn't make baby the priority in the beginning? Once a routine was established things in the household went back to normal. 

I've heard all sorts of stories from his sons mom about how controlling he was and how jealous, and how he never wanted her to go out while he was at work, but to be fair, the marriage ended when she met another guy at a bar and screwed around while my husband was at work, never held job herself, and wouldn't take care of their son. 

In other words she wanted to play house wife without the responsibilities.

His second wife couldn't have children and so she resented his son and really mistreated the kid emotionally and verbally. 

I'm just curious to know what his behavior was towards his wives before and during all that.


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