# Ex wants to move away with daughter



## MaritimeGuy

I've been divorced from my ex for a little over a decade now. We have two children, one 20 (just finished second year university) and the other 17 (in her second last year of high school). When the ex and I separated back in 2004 I purchased a home 5 minutes away so I would be in the same school district as my kids and would be able to have they stay with me regularly. We settled on the kids staying with me Tuesdays and Wednesdays and every second weekend (6 days out of 14). 

Last fall my ex's father became ill eventually dying. During the time he was ill my ex told me she was planning to move back home this upcoming July (6 hours drive from here) to be closer to her father and was taking my daughter with her. I figured it was a kneejerk reaction, expressed concern about my daughter, but didn't pursue it as I didn't want to be cruel at that point. After the holidays I sent the ex an e-mail outlining my opposition to my daugher moving from the only home she has ever known to finish high school in a completely new city. 

The ex ignored my request so I recently contacted a lawyer to see what my options are. The lawyer recommended mediation which my ex refused. I am now planning to take her to court to enforce our agreement which prevents her from moving my daughter away without my permission. 

My daughter has agreed to the move but I believe only because she is trying to be considerate of her mothers feelings...not because she wants to leave her life here and all her friends to start up somewhere else for one year. I'm not pressing her to get her to change her mind because I don't believe it's a decision a child should really have to make anyhow. I don't want her to feel like she has to choose. 

I'm pretty sure if I get an order to keep my ex from moving away with my daughter she won't move without her...so my daughter wins. If it were only about me and my feelings I wouldn't cause an issue. I'm pretty passive that way. I'm only standing up to my ex now for the first time because I believe her actions are hurting my daugher.

I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions as I'm struggling with this. I really don't want to inadvertantly hurt my daughter in this process.


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## PBear

My thoughts... Your wife has to make her decision where she needs to be. Can't say I blame her for wanting to be near her dad. 

Your daughter is old enough to decide where she wants to be. Let her know that she's got a place with you, if she likes. 

Getting into a legal battle won't help. Again, your daughter is old enough to decide where she wants to live. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy

The ex's father died last November. 

I believe my daughter agreed to move based on some misinformation. The only way I can correct some of it is to point out her mother is misleading her. I've never yet spoken negatively about the ex to my kids. She spoke to my daughter first without me knowing anything about it. I'm now in the position of either letting this happen or getting into a pissing match trying to point out my ex is not acting in her best interest.

My daughter currently has an average in the mid 90's with hopes of getting into veterinary school. I'm afraid the difficulty of moving to a whole new community will impact her marks keeping her from getting into the program she wants to get into. She's been told the kids at the new high school will see her as a novelty and will want to make friends with her.


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## PBear

Doesn't change my answer. Your daughter is old enough to decide where she wants to live. All you can do is give her an option. What does your lawyer say the odds are of a successful legal challenge? I'm guessing not very high...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeachGuy

Go talk to a lawyer.

I don't know about the laws there but here an ex cannot just pick up and move with the child without the courts permission. And she has to convince the judge why it's in the best interest of the child to do that. I would doubt she'd be able to if your daughter has lived there her entire life, is about to finish high school and go to college (at which point the ex can go where she wants and you wouldn't care). In addition to you having her often no judge would grant her permission to move "just because" she wants to.

My wife made similar threats the first time I tried to file uncontested divorce. At the time I didn't know she couldn't move with my kids w/o the courts permission.

Good luck.


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## PBear

BeachGuy said:


> Go talk to a lawyer.
> 
> I don't know about the laws there but here an ex cannot just pick up and move with the child without the courts permission. And she has to convince the judge why it's in the best interest of the child to do that. I would doubt she'd be able to if your daughter has lived there her entire life, is about to finish high school and go to college (at which point the ex can go where she wants and you wouldn't care). In addition to you having her often no judge would grant her permission to move "just because" she wants to.
> 
> My wife made similar threats the first time I tried to file uncontested divorce. At the time I didn't know she couldn't move with my kids w/o the courts permission.
> 
> Good luck.


How old were your kids?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy

To be perfectly honest I figure my odds of winning are not good. I feel it's my responsibility though to advocate on my daughters behalf. Even at 17 kids don't necessarily know what is best for them. 

If she does move and her grades drop and she is sad because she misses her friends, sports teams and cadet group me being able to say, "I told you so" is not a victory for me.


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## lenzi

MaritimeGuy said:


> I'm pretty sure if I get an order to keep my ex from moving away with my daughter she won't move without her


Usually at age 18 the parents are no longer held to a legal "move away" agreement in regard to the kids.

Check your state laws.


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## PBear

Spending tons of money on a legal battle you can't win or enforce won't do anyone any good. Making sure she knows she's got a home with you not matter what is really all you can do. Heck, spend the money on a really hot car, IF she stays with you! . Fight dirty, if you have to!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeachGuy

PBear said:


> How old were your kids?
> 
> 
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My kids are 11 and 15.


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## lifeistooshort

Your daughter is 17. You can argue that she still doesn't know what's good for her but before too long she'll be 18 and won't necessarily magically know what's good for her and you won't be able to do anything. You're going to spend a ton of money on a case you likely won't win, and even if you do your ex will simply wait until she's 18 and move anyway. I don't think it's a wise fight to have; like pbear said, let her know she's got a place with you. If she was much younger I'd say a court battle would be in order but in this case not so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jb02157

You need to stand up to your ex and demand that your daughter is kept by you in the school she is doing well at. Don't let your ex take that away from her.


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## PBear

BeachGuy said:


> My kids are 11 and 15.


That's a key difference. Your kids (the youngest especially) isn't old enough to decide for themselves. A 17 year old is. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

At her age, the judge will likely ask her what she wants to do. She will probably side with her mother.


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## frusdil

Can you suggest that your daughter stay with you until she finishes school? By the time she's finished, she may well have decided she wants to stay put.

If not, let her go with her mother.


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## MyHappyPlace

frusdil said:


> Can you suggest that your daughter stay with you until she finishes school?


:iagree:THIS:iagree:

If her father is already deceased, why does she still want to leave anyway?


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## EnjoliWoman

I agree that a judge is probably going to ask your daughter what she wants to do and if she's a people pleaser, she might just want to make Mom happy to keep the peace. 

With your FIL already passed, I don't get why your ex decides NOW to move. Seems sort of selfish (unless MIL needs her?). No way would I move during my daughter's final year. In fact I've had a job offer that is 3 states away and I said I couldn't even entertain it until she's out of high school.

You've already asked ex to postpone the move?
Can you take custody/offer to until she graduates? Would Ex be willing if you sweetened the pot somehow? Like do all of the driving to facilitate visitation, or give her all non-school time like long holiday weekends (i.e. Memorial weekend, summer, etc.)?
It might not hurt to consult an attorney, although she is old enough to choose.

Can you reason with your daughter? It's OK to be honest with her about what her mother tells her. You don't have to bash Mom. Just keep it factual and unemotional when it comes to correcting her promises/statements. Are you good friends with any of her friends' parents - could you have her friends talk her into staying, or as suggested by another poster, agree to have your daughter live with them? Seems stupid when you're right there but you never know what the Ex is thinking.

Sorry, this is crappy of her.


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## MaritimeGuy

I wasn't trying to keep my ex here indefinately. I'm only asking that she stay until my daughter finishes high school next year. My daughter will be going away to university after that so my ex can move to the moon then as far as I'm concerned. 

My ex's parents were divorced and hated each others guts so it's not like her mother lost her support or anything. I think my ex feels bad about not being there for her father and now wants to be there. What I don't think she's seeing is that in order to be closer to her family she's taking her daughter away from hers. 

I spoke to a family counsellor about it and she was of the opinion parents should be compromising to be considerate of their children...not the other way around.


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## MaritimeGuy

I proposed mediation because quite honestly the ex and I are not very good at communicating. She's used to me rolling over on pretty much every issue to keep the peace. I fully expected there would be give and take in a mediation process and in exchange for my daughter being allowed to finish school here I would give up something. I'm more than happy to do that. I can't quite envision what that would look like but I was told good mediators are good at identifying things like that. Unfortunately the ex will not participate in mediation and told me to take her to court. 

This whole exercise for me is not about me. It's about trying to do what I think is best for my daughter. The easiest thing for me to do is just accept it and do nothing. I think I would be failing my daughter if I did that. 

My daughter is still technically a minor however the older a child is the more weight a judge will give to their position. That is why I think I will lose. My daughter will worry about hurting her mother and say she wants to move. Years from now though when my daughter sees things for what they really are she will see I tried to stand up for her. Even if she doesn't I will know in my heart I did.


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## PBear

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that your wife should be moving off. I think she's being hugely selfish to consider moving away at this time in your daughter's life. 

Unfortunately, our opinion, your counsellor's opinion, your lawyer's opinion, and your opinion aren't necessarily going to change your wife's plan. She can do as she likes. And your daughter has to make a grown up decision based on that. All you can do is try to give her options to chose from. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

Have you spoken to your daughter privately? Is there any chance she actually does want to move?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you spoken to your daughter privately? Is there any chance she actually does want to move?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She says she's OK with it. I told her she will always have the option of staying with me. She said, "I know". Her face was flushed and she was shaking while we had this conversation. I didn't feel right about pushing it.

I have concerns about moving to a new school. Teachers won't know her and won't be as likely to notice if she's not getting the grades she's capable of. Kids, particularly in the small town she would be moving to where everyone has grown up together, won't exactly be overy receptive to a newcomer. Some might actually be downright cruel. 

My daughter also participates in many extra-curricular activities; hockey, soccer and cadets. She has many friends at each of these as well as the coaches/leaders who know her and encourage her. She has to start all over in a new city. 

I figure best case she has an indifferent year going to school and going home after school making a few friends (likely with kids who are also on the 'outside' in that community). At worst she misses all the people here she's known all her life, including me, has some bad experiences with bullies and regrets having moved. 

I'm afraid of sharing these concerns with her as in the event she does end up moving I want her to go into it with as positive an outlook as possible.


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## MyHappyPlace

When does your daughter turn 18?


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## MaritimeGuy

Where we live age of majority is 19.


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## DoF

This sounds out of your control and your daughter is maturing/almost an adult and has to make decisions herself (let her).

Just be supportive, keep in contact and do your best to visit as much as possible.

I'm sorry, I know how much this hurts.


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## MaritimeGuy

An update for those who took the time to respond to my request for opinions. 

I spoke with my lawyer and she essentially told me the same thing most of you have been trying to tell me. She is of the opinion my ex does not have a valid legal reason to move. Everything hinges though on what my daughter wants. In the interest of maintaining the best possible relationship with my daughter I need to ascertain what she wants. If she wants to move than my lawyer does not think it would be a good idea to try to force her to stay. A judge will take into consideration her opinion. 

My lawyer has asked me to have a frank talk with my daughter and ask her...putting aside my interests...her mothers interests... what is it she wants? Does she want to move to this new city? Or would she prefer to finish her high school here? Once I have that information I will check back with my lawyer to see where we go from here. 

Thanks for your advice everyone.


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## turnera

MaritimeGuy said:


> She says she's OK with it. I told her she will always have the option of staying with me. She said, "I know". Her face was flushed and she was shaking while we had this conversation. I didn't feel right about pushing it.


So your ex manipulates and guilts her daughter because she's used to getting what she wants. And your daughter hasn't yet learned to stand up for herself.

I would fight it, offer for her to stay with you for one year. My neighbor's wife divorced but made him agree to keep the house until the kids graduated; so the kids stay here unit they graduate. Unconventional arrangements are more common these days.


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## PBear

I hope it works out for you, MG! Good luck! I hope for your daughter' sake that she decides to stay with you... Speaking as someone who moved around a lot as a child/teenager. 

C


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## HobbesTheTiger

Hi.

What was your daughter's reaction when you conveyed your very valid concerns to her? About her grades, friends etc.? And your fear that she's doing this out of some sort of obligation?

Is there a chance you could go with your daughter to a family therapist, or perhaps ask your daughter if she would be ok with her going to the therapist by herself?

Has she talked to her older sister? Maybe her older sister can have a constructive talk with her?

I agree with you btw, it'd be better if she didn't move away for one year.

Best wishes!


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## LongWalk

Nobody should feed the lawyers unless it is absolutely necessary. So, finding an alternative solution is worth exploration before going to court.

What does big sister think? Are your daughters close?

Does your daughter worry more about her mother's happiness than yours? Could be that she feels you are strong and can take her disappearance while mom cannot. She shouldn't be put in a position to choose between parents. Your ex is in the wrong here.

Since you've live alone with your daughter quite a bit you must have some idea of her character. What is your gut telling you? I presume you feel this is not good for her from the gut.

What do your daughter's friends, teachers and coaches say?

I would tell your daughter that if she should move and feel uncomfortable with the decision, she can move back and finish school. Knowing that she can bail from the new place may be a good insurance policy for her.

Did her school compete against the school to which her mother would place her? Would there be some connection?


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## MaritimeGuy

Latest update is that my lawyer has referred me to a psychologist who specializes in these kinds of things. Ideally I will be able to get my daughter in to talk with her to figure out where she stands. My lawyer feels my ex doesn't have a valid legal reason for moving thus would lose a court challenge. The lawyer thinks before taking that expensive route and potentially alienating my daughter I need to figure out where she stands.

I do believe my daugther is more concerned about protecting her mother than she is about protecting me. 

I've talked in depth with one of my daughters coaches and just recently with her math teacher and both strongly believe she should not move. 

The new school is in a different province six hours drive away. They would never compete against one another.


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## PBear

What does your lawyer say about your daughter making her own decision abou who she wants to live with? Even if your wife loses a court challenge, your daughter still gets a say where she lives, no?

And good idea about figuring out what your daughter wants and why. Your wife is a witch with a capital B for putting your daughter through this. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy

Technically my daughter is still a minor so doesn't get to choose where she lives. When the ex and I don't agree the judge does purportedly in the 'best interest of the child'. In reality though that is not practical. That's what my lawyer is saying to me. There's no point pursuing it if I would end up keeping my daughter here against her will. 

My daughter says to me she wants to move albeit with some siginificant hesitation when answering. I think she's got misguided ideas about how that will go and I think we can make a good guess who planted those ideas. I don't want to necessarily tear all those apart because if she ends up moving she needs to do so with the best possible attitude. 

I feel if I really start grilling her on why she feels she's better off moving she's going to feel like I'm pressuring her to choose who she wants to live with. I've told her I will always support her to the best of my ability whatever she chooses to do in life.


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## LongWalk

I think it will be a major challenge for her to give up her activities and friends in the last year of school.

Your daughter may be happy if you fight her mother to protect her rights because it alleviates the need for her to openly oppose her mother. In fact, your ex should have approached you to discuss it with your daughter's best interests in mind.

By going to court you could buy time if your lawyer got a temporary injunction forbidding your ex from moving your daughter. A judge would eventually order your daughter to speak with a court appointed psychologist or social worker. Your daughter might find this intrusive but it would still be a process to defend her rights.

Doesn't your daughter want to graduate with all her friends?


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## turnera

I would instead of grilling her spend time getting to know how she feels about her mother, about how obligated she feels, and talking to her about whether that's normal, and what her 'rights' are in terms of her mother expecting her to support her. Try to help her see that, in 5 years, she'll be a young adult who no longer has to run her activities past her mom or dad for approval. That this might be a good opportunity for her to practice speaking up for what she REALLY wants, whatever that is, regardless of what either parent wants. I'm betting she needs to hear from at least one of you that she WON'T be hated or thought less of for not doing what pleases the parent. I've got a bright, functioning 23 year old who STILL hates to disappoint me and has a hard time doing so, despite my protests. I think your DD needs to hear that a lot, that she'll still be loved by both of you even if she chooses what makes HER happy.

And, of course, the therapist will reinforce this.


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## turnera

LongWalk said:


> I think it will be a major challenge for her to give up her activities and friends in the last year of school.
> 
> Your daughter may be happy if you fight her mother to protect her rights because it alleviates the need for her to openly oppose her mother. In fact, your ex should have approached you to discuss it with your daughter's best interests in mind.
> 
> By going to court you could buy time if your lawyer got a temporary injunction forbidding your ex from moving your daughter. A judge would eventually order your daughter to speak with a court appointed psychologist or social worker. Your daughter might find this intrusive but it would still be a process to defend her rights.
> 
> Doesn't your daughter want to graduate with all her friends?


I agree completely. Sometimes you NEED to step in and fight for them.


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## LongWalk

You could talk to your ex about saving money by not fighting a legal battle and using the money to buy plane tickets for your daughter to fly out to see her mother often.

Point out to your ex that you are not objecting because you are afraid of being lonely. Your daughter is almost and adult and will leave soon anyway.


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## turnera

I would just focus on how traumatic it is for a child to have to start over in her senior year and how that experience will haunt her for the rest of her life. Tell your stbx that you're fine with DD moving there after she graduates, you'll help her move. You just want her to be with her friends her final year.

Show her this:
New Move Depressions- moving in your senior year of high school - Social Anxiety Forum


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## Hicks

It's really not likely that a high schooler would want to move.


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## turnera

If her mom is guilting her, she would. Not really, but she would say so, so as not to disappoint her mom.


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## MaritimeGuy

I appreciate the feedback. 

I myself changed schools after grade 11. In those days our school system went to grade 13 for those going on to university so I did my last two years at a new high school. It wasn't necessarily a negative experience. I made a few friends. I got close to one of the teachers (he was also new at the school).

It wasn't the same as my old school though where I knew everyone including all the teachers and was heavily involved in the sports teams. My marks dropped from the high 80's to high 70's limiting my university options. Again, I don't want to make an issue of this with my daughter as if she ends up moving I don't want it to become a self fulfilling prophecy. Maybe she can be more successful than I was.

I too suspect me fighting for her may alleviate her of responsibility for disappointing her mother. I guess at some level I want to 'know' this not just suspect it although I realize in real life you don't often get to operate with perfect information. I hoping an opinion from a professional who specializes in this stuff will make my path clearer for me. 

Again, thank you all for your contributions.


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## MaritimeGuy

My daughter moved away today. 

I did take her to see a psychologist. The psychologist said she felt that although my daughter is being somewhat naive she did want to move. She did not feel my daughter was being coerced into saying that. My daughter also told me the same thing in a number of conversations we had about the issue. On that basis I did not pursue the matter legally. 

My daughter spent most of the summer with me. During that time she was out a lot with her friends. Hopefully with texting, facebook etc. it will be possible for her to stay connected. 

I've made arrangements with her to fly her back roughly once a month. Just a little worried my ex will throw a wrench in those plans when the time comes. Hopefully not. 

Got my fingers crossed it will all work out. My daughter did tell her friends yesterday while I was driving them home from a BBQ that she is excited about going to her new school. I'm glad she's being positive. 

Me...I'm pretty sad. I've always felt so much better when my kids were under my roof as I felt that somehow made it possible for me to protect them better. It's hard knowing she's now that much further away.


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## turnera

So sorry. My advice is to start writing her letters. Real, hardcopy letters on stationary. Every week. Make that your 'thing.' You wouldn't believe how connected it will make her feel toward you. Fifty years later and I still remember fondly the letters my grandma sent me, and I still hope to find them in all my stuff some day.


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## DoF

PBear said:


> My thoughts... Your wife has to make her decision where she needs to be. Can't say I blame her for wanting to be near her dad.
> 
> Your daughter is old enough to decide where she wants to be. Let her know that she's got a place with you, if she likes.
> 
> Getting into a legal battle won't help. Again, your daughter is old enough to decide where she wants to live.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great post IMO


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## DoF

MaritimeGuy said:


> My daughter moved away today.
> 
> I did take her to see a psychologist. The psychologist said she felt that although my daughter is being somewhat naive she did want to move. She did not feel my daughter was being coerced into saying that. My daughter also told me the same thing in a number of conversations we had about the issue. On that basis I did not pursue the matter legally.
> 
> My daughter spent most of the summer with me. During that time she was out a lot with her friends. Hopefully with texting, facebook etc. it will be possible for her to stay connected.
> 
> I've made arrangements with her to fly her back roughly once a month. Just a little worried my ex will throw a wrench in those plans when the time comes. Hopefully not.
> 
> Got my fingers crossed it will all work out. My daughter did tell her friends yesterday while I was driving them home from a BBQ that she is excited about going to her new school. I'm glad she's being positive.
> 
> Me...I'm pretty sad. I've always felt so much better when my kids were under my roof as I felt that somehow made it possible for me to protect them better. It's hard knowing she's now that much further away.


Kids getting older and moving away...at times far places....is all part of parenthood (unfortunately).

I know it hurts, but you better accept below now vs make it hard on yourself.

You did your best, not much else you can do at this point.


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## PBear

DoF said:


> Great post IMO


Thanks. 

To MG... My ex and my kids are in the process of moving even as we speak. My mid-teen age daughter is excited about the move and a new school, and she's said that a few times to me. So they can look at it in a possibly naive but positive way. 

In my case though, they're actually moving from on of the suburbs outside of town into the city I live in, cutting the time it will take me to see them in half. Heck, they can take the bus to see me now! Or taking my son out for a round of golf will no longer involve 90 minutes of driving. Yay me! 

Stick to your guns on the visitation. Book in advance, and make sure to communicate with your ex early. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman

I'm sorry - you did what you could and took the right steps to make sure this was what she wanted. I agree with the letter idea. Send her stamps/envelopes so she can write you back. That way if there's something she wants to get out but doesn't feel free to speak on the phone, she can still let you know.


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## LongWalk

Yes, indeed, tell her that she can reverse the decision whenever she wants.

My daughters are 16 and 19. At this age they want to be with their friends very much, but could be convinced to go on an adventure anywhere. They need to have Dorothy Wizard of Oz shoes.


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## Unique Username

Since school probably just started or is just starting where she moved

check in and see how she likes the school, the people and the classes

If she doesn't, tell her she is welcome to come live with you for her Senior year.

waging a legal battle would be costly and take longer than the school year.
Be completely honest with your daughter
although I will miss you, what I'm really concerned about is your making the most out of your Senior year of High School - being with friends the prom and that your grades keep up so you can go after your Veterinary dream...


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## MaritimeGuy

School starts tomorrow for her. So far I'm keeping in touch by text which is how my kids like to communicate. I like the idea of writing letters. It would be unique in todays world.

I advised her to tryout for the school soccer team (she's been an avid soccer player all her life). I figure that is a good way to make some friends. Soccer season is in the fall so it means getting to know people at the beginning of the school year. 

She had some tryouts already and has more today. She is confident she will make the team. I'm a little concerned in that my life experience has shown me that coaches tend to pick the kids they know. The new kid usually has to really stand out to get picked. Got my fingers crossed she will make the cut.

I've made it clear to her throughout the process she is always welcome to stay with me. The psychologist also told her not to try to "stick it out". As in if it's really going poorly move back home and finish school where you know what you can do. Whether she would ever risk alienating her mother by moving back with me is another question though.


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