# I had an online affair .



## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

This whole situation is so heartbreaking, so humiliating, so embarrassing. I cannot even begin to express my grief and shame over my actions. 

A little over a month ago, I 'met' a man online with whom I seemed to instantly connect. After only talking to him a short time, I confided in him that I was in a very vulnerable place in my marriage, and he listened (er... read?) as I poured out my heartache and anguish. And so began an emotional affair that progressed to explicit sex-chat (via instant message. no webcams or voice programs). 

There is no justification for my actions. No amount of pain or suffering or disappointment will ever excuse what I did. I know that. I wish so desperately that I would have had more wisdom. That I would not have given into temptation. That I wouldn't have hurt my spouse as I have. 

We're just over a week after discovery. I have cut off all communication with the OM. My spouse has given me a few resources to help me understand what he is going through, including posts on this site. I am trying to express my shame and how very sorry I am for doing this to him. I don't think I am doing a very good job. Expressing emotion is often extremely difficult for me. I just keep saying I'm sorry over and over, and trying to follow the basic guidelines for a genuine apology. 

I went to a trusted friend in my church and confessed everything, and she encouraged me to go confess to our pastor, which I did this afternoon. That was one of the hardest and most embarrassing things I have ever done, but I knew it was the right path to take after my serious indiscretion. 

I am desperately seeking reconciliation. I am currently being counselled by my pastor and his wife, as well as the marriage therapist my spouse and I have been seeing for quite some time. 

It is easy to feel lost in this situation, and yet I am full aware that I deserve no sympathy. I accept all responsibility for my actions. 

I wish I could go back one month ago and just... walk away. Nothing is worth knowing I have devastated my spouse. 

And there is the beginning of my story.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

How did your husband "discover" the affair?

You said there were "sex chats" - did you ever say "I love you and can't wait to "fill in the blank" with/to you" to the OM? And did your husband read this?

If husband discovered this and you were hiding it from him, and if he read the exchanges between you and OM, then he (husband) is probably in shock. He is trying to figure out who the hell this woman is that would do this because the wife he loved and trusted certainly would not.

Just a week from discovery he is still trying to figure out where he needs to go from here - what he wants to do.

Do you have kids? How long have you been married?


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

My husband suspected and approached me with his suspicions, and I confessed. 

I wrote an erotic story, which I shared with the OM, in which I had written "I love you" but edited that part out before sharing the story. Yes, my husband saw and read it. 

We have children and have been married 3 years.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Still Lady said:


> My husband suspected and approached me with his suspicions, and I confessed.
> 
> I wrote an erotic story, which I shared with the OM, in which I had written "I love you" but edited that part out before sharing the story. Yes, my husband saw and read it.
> 
> We have children and have been married 3 years.


Was the erotic story about you and OM?

What has your husband said about all this?


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

The erotic story was a fantasy I had written out. I used no names or personal information. 

My husband is devastated and heartbroken, and is vacillating between anger, hurt, numbness, and desperate clinging, understandably.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

Suggestion; be an open book to your husband. Let him have all of your passwords and hide nothing. Sorry is a word. Actions speak volumes.
Good luck!


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

You also need to give him some space and time. Arrange to stay with someone for a few days or even a couple weeks if you need to.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

spudster said:


> You also need to give him some space and time. Arrange to stay with someone for a few days or even a couple weeks if you need to.


Not a bad suggestion Spud, but Still Lady should ask her spouse if this will help him.

Do not even give him a doubt in his mind that you are running away from the issues.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Where online did you meet him? Was in inside an online game or a chat room?


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I met him in an MMO game.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Quit the online gaming....

Dumb....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, dear. Even good people can do some pretty nasty, bad stuff. 

The thing is to be self-aware enough to know what you did and to work to put it right?

Have we already heard from your husband? If not, please ask him to drop by.

We'll be here for both of you.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Yes, you all have heard from my husband as well. 

And regarding the game, I have quit it and all things/people associated with it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I met him in an MMO game.


Can I suggest that you give that kind of thing up? Too much of a temptation, I fear. 

I am not being factious, but why not stick with games between you and your husband? 

Not THOSE kind of games! (Well, maybe... if you want!) 

I was thinking of Scrabble, etc?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> Yes, you all have heard from my husband as well.
> 
> And regarding the game, I have quit it and all things/people associated with it.


Cool! That's good.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

do you know his real life contact information? Does your husband have it? 

One big show of good faith that you are really not loyal to the OM is to work with your husband to expose the OM to his wife/gf.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I would absolutely adore to play some sort of games with my husband. Not even just online/computer/video games. Anything at all. Scrabble would be delightful. I crave that sort of play, actually, which is where my weakness turned into indiscretion.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Could the bad spot you say you were in with the marriage at the time you started your affair have been caused by your online gaming? 

Fact is, if you had put as much work into fixing the relationship with your husband as you did playing games on the computer you might not be in the situation you are in now. 

Don't you dare blame any of this foolishness on your husband.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

You are absolutely right, Spudster. I should have thrown everything I had into working on the marriage, and instead, I chose escapism. And I will in no way blame any of this sad mess on him. I made the wrong choice to seek attention outside the marriage. I allowed myself to become emotionally attached to someone other than my husband. I fully accept that I have made a grievous mistake. Period.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Still Lady,
I understand what you are going thru. I have been on both sides. Ours was also MMO. If you have the time to do so, read the first link in my signature. You CAN work thru this...if you are willing to actually put in the work.

ETA: I sent you a PM.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Your husband's story is much worse than yours. He claims you repeatedly lied to him after being found out and, in fact, are still not being transparent with him by giving your passwords, accusing him of invading your privacy, etc., and have not been very comforting to him.

I am assuming this is your husband, if not, I am going to feel pretty stupid.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52350-wifes-online-affair.html


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Is your hubby Still Knight? The similar names plus the online affair thing makes me ask. 

Hope not, because if so his description of what happened vs yours suggest there's still sone work to do on communication.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Yes, my husband is Still Knight.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Your husband's story is much worse than yours. He claims you repeatedly lied to him after being found out and, in fact, are still *not being transparent with him by giving your passwords, accusing him of invading your privacy, etc.*, and have not been very comforting to him.
> 
> I am assuming this is your husband, if not, I am going to feel pretty stupid.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52350-wifes-online-affair.html


Yea... I'm with Will on this. When I confessed about my EA to my husband, I gave him unlimited access to EVERYTHING. He has the option to check my email, facebook, texts, etc at any given time. If Still Knight is your husband, as we suspect...you need to be completely transparent with him. If he is not, but if you are not giving transparency to your husband, you need to. He needs to have that show of faith that you mean it when you say you want to work this out. If you don't, he is ALWAYS going to think you are hiding something. Even if he doesn't check regularly, he needs to be shown that he CAN if he so chooses.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I have given him passwords to everything, and not 15 minutes ago told him I made an account here, what my user name is, and what the password is. 

He has the password to my computer, all 3 of my email accounts, my facebook, and here. He can have all access to my phone as well. 

I am trying to be 100% transparent.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Yes his story and yours don't match up. You are minimizing and not being honest with yourself. 
I'm sorry that you have been through trauma in your life. I have too but it doesn't excuse cheating. 
I wish you luck in trying to heal your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I am admitting to everything I have done. I don't mean to minimize. Can you show me how I am minimizing? I just went back and reread my first post, and I'm not denying anything. I really am taking full responsibility for my actions. There is no excuse. There is no justification. I am willing to do any and all work needed to restore our marriage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I am admitting to everything I have done. I don't mean to minimize. Can you show me how I am minimizing? I just went back and reread my first post, and I'm not denying anything. I really am taking full responsibility for my actions. There is no excuse. There is no justification. I am willing to do any and all work needed to restore our marriage.


You need to read your husband's posts in order to see how it looked from his side.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I have read his whole thread thus far.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Well you didn't mention that you were sending bawdy pics of yourself to OM for one thing. You didn't mention how many times your H found you out and that you kept gettIng back on the game. I am not your judge or jury, I'm just saying you made it look a lot less extensive than it was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I have given him passwords to everything, and not 15 minutes ago told him I made an account here, what my user name is, and what the password is.
> 
> He has the password to my computer, all 3 of my email accounts, my facebook, and here. He can have all access to my phone as well.
> 
> I am trying to be 100% transparent.


Forgive me if this is blunt. I am a betrayed spouse so you know my biases.

You were unfaithful. As well as sexual feelings for other men, your husband says it has including a lot of deception towards him. 

Right now, if your husband's posts are accurate, you are lying.You might not think it's a lie to leave out details, but it is because you are not giving him the truth. You might think it's for good reason....trying to avoid damage, sparing the feelings of others. But those lies are the worst thing you could do, because you already have a major trust issue and every lie is simply confirming that your word is worthless. You really think you are smart enough to improvise a story that will stand scrutiny over the years a reconciliation will take? 

You may as well try to put out a fire with gasoline as try to repair trust by lying or withholding information.

I get you are hurting too. I don't want to add to it. But you need to confront this.


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## MadeInMichigan (May 8, 2012)

Ok...she says she is willing to do anything and everything. 

Let her have it ladies and gentleman, tell her what she needs to, going forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I am admitting to everything I have done. I don't mean to minimize. Can you show me how I am minimizing? I just went back and reread my first post, and I'm not denying anything. I really am taking full responsibility for my actions. There is no excuse. There is no justification. I am willing to do any and all work needed to restore our marriage.


Make a dot point list of every specific thing you have admitted.

Make a dot point list of everything your husband says you did.

Count up how many things are on his list and not yours.

Ask yourself how your husband would feel if he takes your threads and does the same thing.

Ask yourself, and those supporting you, why he should even try to trust you.


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## MadeInMichigan (May 8, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Make a dot point list of every specific thing you have admitted.
> 
> Make a dot point list of everything your husband says you did.
> 
> Count up how many things are on his list and not yours.


A great beginning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Heck, you even say D-Day was a month ago and your husband says it has been going on for months. 

He doesn't believe you. Ask yourself why he should based on your current admissions.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I have read his whole thread thus far.


And do you notice that your account seems a little less forthcoming than his?

You might have omitted some details out of feeling ashamed or humiliated. And that's understandable.

But there have been cases of unfaithful spouses posting here, leaving out some details for ulterior motives.

I am sure your motives are honourable. But some aren't.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I was deceptive, and I tried to deny anything was happening when everything started to come into the light. 

The day after I confessed, I wrote the OM to tell him everything was over, and I, beyond all stupidity, got sucked into an extended conversation with him, during which he asked for a picture. I took one on my phone and emailed it to myself, and then photoshopped it on my computer, where I left it. My husband found the picture in my email and documents. 

I was momentarily upset when I found out he put monitoring software on my computer (I found out because he left the installation up) because he did it while I was out thinking I wouldn't know, and I was hoping we could be completely open about everything. I actually think monitoring software is a great idea. I was upset because he did it behind my back. Wrong of me, I'm sure. 

The other night, wee hours of the morning actually, we were arguing about the situation. During the argument, he said he needed physical connection. I reached over and held his hand. When he became upset, leaned above me and forcibly pulled down my pants, I panicked and pulled away from him, not knowing what he was about to do. Suddenly and forcibly pulling down my pants with no warning frightens me. I fully admit that comes from being raped and that it has a negative impact on my marriage. 

I met the OM a little over a month ago, and it moved from emotional chatting to sexual chatting approximately 2 weeks ago. I have been long engaged in the game for several months now. 

I'm sorry I didn't put all these things in my original post.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

I noticed the names and the stories matched. Be up front, truthful, its all easier on both parties in the end, and it is easier to not lie because you'll have to keep recalling what you said when where etc etc, its too difficult to lie for the sake of not hurting your husband whom is already hurt and already. Its a common thing we all humans do is justify and minimize. Admission of guilt is a good start, transparency and total disconnection to these habits must be gone in an INSTANT, this is war to save your marriage, if your are half hearted about it he will know and if he is smart he'll leave, if you pour your heart out now, rebuild the trust, the love, and repair some of the damage, it may fortify your relationship to reconcilation and better stage of happiness. I'm not saying cheating is an upgrade to improve marriage quality, on the contrary, a car oil leak should be fixed before it the engine blows a rod then we end up saying, well something was wrong with the car all along, we should have known!? The signs were there, the car engine busted now rebuild it, and not just a top end rebuild (rug sweeping) a full rebuild.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I am deeply ashamed and this is the most humiliating thing I have ever done. I am staring point blank in the mirror and see myself for what I am, an unfaithful spouse. 

Going before my friend from church, and my pastor and his wife, were some of the hardest things I have had to do, but I did it because I want transparency and open honesty. I am not trying to sugar coat anything. I did this. Period.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I have never been in either of your shoes but I think forcibly pulling your pants off is creepy. I would get triggered big time by that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> The day after I confessed, I wrote the OM to tell him everything was over, and I, beyond all stupidity, got sucked into an extended conversation with him, during which he asked for a picture. I took one on my phone


Your husband wrote:



Still Knight said:


> In it, I found a picture sent from her phone that day, of her standing in our bathroom mirror with her shirt open and her bra exposed, with a wine bottle nestled between her breasts. I knew immediately that wasn't intended for me.


Even if you didn't send it, how does a photo like that line up with telling the OM it is over?

You have to remember that your husband is now in a state of incredible emotional pain and looking for holes in your words. It's not a casual thing, it's eating at his brain like acid 24x7. Can you see how something like the above is going to feed his pain?

I know you are hurting, I know you are trying to justify yourself, and I am not saying everything is your fault. Would you believe that someone would take a photo like that if they were committed to ending the affair?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

diwali123 said:


> I have never been in either of your shoes but I think forcibly pulling your pants off is creepy. I would get triggered big time by that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Agree


Not that I am trying to justify this as it was wrong, but I did not forcibly remove anything. They never even came down. I started to pull them down and stopped immediately when she spun angrily on me. It's frankly BS I am even having to defend myself on this point. It was wrong, I was hurt, and felt like looking at her was going to be my only way to feel like I had any physical connection to her at all, since all thay energy seems to only for the OM now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## t_hopper_2012 (Apr 17, 2012)

In addition to every thing else you've done, it seems that you need to quit playing this game right away.

Still Lady, have you quit the game (and deleted your account - even if it means wiping out months of "progress" in the game)? If not, why?


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

diwali123 said:


> I have never been in either of your shoes but I think forcibly pulling your pants off is creepy. I would get triggered big time by that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Triggered? How long have you been married to still be triggered by your husband? If you honestly "triggered" from your husband than you are still weak, and you shouldn't play with fire because you are still weak. Triggering from past experiences like that with your husband yet you're involving yourself in situations, areas or circumstances that may bring you to cheat while still being vulnerable. I'm just an outsider looking in, but this sounds ridiculous and I speak from experience, overcome your past "traumas". You only overcome something by confronting it. If you want to be a coward vs anything do it vs temptations, run away from the opportunity to cheat, dont even entertain the idea of meeting past lovers, or other men if you are that weak willed.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Not that I am trying to justify this as it was wrong, but I did not forcibly remove anything. They never even came down. I started to pull them down and stopped immediately when she spun angrily on me. It's frankly BS I am even having to defend myself on this point. It was wrong, I was hurt, and felt like looking at her was going to be my only way to feel like I had any physical connection to her at all, since all thay energy seems to only for the OM now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This stuff hurts, and it's hard. I commented on that simply because I had said so many harsh things to your wife that I wanted to demonstrate that I recognised there were two sides to every story. I'm very saddened at the pain you are both going through.

You can recover from this if you both really try, but it is painful and takes a while. Do not lose heart.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Wazza said:


> This stuff hurts, and it's hard. I commented on that simply because I had said so many harsh things to your wife that I wanted to demonstrate that I recognised there were two sides to every story. I'm very saddened at the pain you are both going through.
> 
> You can recover from this if you both really try, but it is painful and takes a while. Do not lose heart.


 Yet the wife said she triggered? I barely noticed that he posted in his defense, which I did recall him saying she got angry from that incident, not trigger.....? 

I agree with wazza, recovery requires both to perservere in different ways, besides everything else that is needed to reconcile.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

I feel like the one place I had turned to for solace is being taken from me. Hal
The half truths and outright manipulations of the truth follow me even here. I couldn't have even one moment of peace, where my wife doesn't distort the truth to make herself look better and me maniacal monster. I was completely honest and forthcoming with details in my post and yet even that gets taken from me in order fpr her to get the focus back on her. How the hell can you continue with someone who refuses to honor truth and reality at all times? Thanks hon, had to make sure you cut off that line of comfort for me as well, juh?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> my only way to feel like I had any physical connection to her at all, since all thay energy seems to only for the OM now.


If you reconcile, it comes back in time. There's always some pain, but right now my former cheating wife and I have the best sex, and have it more often, than at any time in our relationship.

If you get through this, plan for that. Plan dirty weekends away together, use sex aids, play adult games. Make sex a priority. Also make non-sexual warmth a priority. Touch each other, be tender, try and act like you did when you first met and you were trying to impress each other. That all feeds hormones which generate affection.

You have got a future if you both want it enough to fight for it. It's a way away, but it will come, and it's fantastic.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> I feel like the one place I had turned to for solace is being taken from me. Hal
> The half truths and outright manipulations of the truth follow me even here. I couldn't have even one moment of peace, where my wife doesn't distort the truth to make herself look better and me maniacal monster. I was completely honest and forthcoming with details in my post and yet even that gets taken from me in order fpr her to get the focus back on her. How the hell can you continue with someone who refuses to honor truth and reality at all times? Thanks hon, had to make sure you cut off that line of comfort for me as well, juh?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Woah now. Take it easy boss. Most of the folks here have been through betrayals of their own. We're all part of the same sorry club, so don't fret about people taking sides or being manipulated. We're nothing if not cynical and observant, and we have no trouble calling her (or you) on bullsh*t.

If you _read_ the thread instead of jumping to conclusions like a hot-head, you will have noticed that we called her on her withholding details right from the get-go. Now, the pulling her pants down was a bit... forward, yeah. There are more subtle ways to get your wife to show you her ass. But no one is faulting your _intent_ - just your course of action. 

You're mad at her. Great. We understand and expect it. You want to call her on her affair and minimizing. Good. You're in the right to do so. But shouting at her on an internet forum isn't constructive or helpful to you in the least.

Don't you have any activities you can do to chill out or de-stress? You need to be level-headed before you can make any worthwhile decisions about the marriage. We can't give you advice if you're thrashing around like a mad dog, either, since it'll go in one ear and out the other.

This is still your place. Youre free to post here and vent as much as you need to. People will be more than happy to give you advice, or share there thoughts on your situation. Your wife posting here doesn't change that. It lets her see your thoughts, yes, but what you share and what we share will be the same regardless of who reads it.

Relax.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Still Knight

Your wife could be blowing smoke up our collective asses however I don't get the sense she is. 

Several years ago I went through exactly what you are going through now. Stumbling on an online relationship, finding sexually explicit messages, discovering several hundred dollar long distance phone bills to one phone number. I know how crazy it makes you. It's like having the whole world pulled from underneath your feet. The one thing you felt like you could always count on suddenly becomes something you can't. My situation ended in divorce. 

That being said, your wife sounds sincere in her remorse to me. I think you both need to take a step back and process what has occurred. Talking with counsellors is not a bad idea. You will need time to put everything in perspective. You can't spend the rest of your life using key loggers, checking cell phones, logging onto facebook accounts. You have to look into your heart and decide if you will ever be able to trust her again. 

I truly hope she is sincere and you can find it in your heart to accept what has happened and move forward.

Best wishes...


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Read your husband's thread. Read yours.

You're not truly remorseful. Your history, actions and words show that.

Your husband needs to move on.

You need to figure out what drives you to do what you had done before and during marriage. Hopefully you have the motivation to start the search. Probably not now, but maybe when you have hit bottom?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Still Lady, you are a broken woman and your husband had the misfortune of marrying you. What have you done to try and get over your past trauma?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

StillLady,
Why did you do this? No bullsh!t, no half truths, no holding back. You don't know us and we don't know you. I don't judge you to be a good or bad person. God sees into your heart, He will be your judge. But you need to answer that question. The answer cannot in any way shape or form have the words "because my husband..." Why did YOU do this?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Jibril said:


> Woah now. Take it easy boss. Most of the folks here have been through betrayals of their own. We're all part of the same sorry club, so don't fret about people taking sides or being manipulated. We're nothing if not cynical and observant, and we have no trouble calling her (or you) on bullsh*t.
> 
> If you _read_ the thread instead of jumping to conclusions like a hot-head, you will have noticed that we called her on her withholding details right from the get-go. Now, the pulling her pants down was a bit... forward, yeah. There are more subtle ways to get your wife to show you her ass. But no one is faulting your _intent_ - just your course of action.
> 
> ...


Jibril, I just found everything out this Tuesday night so I'm still very raw, sorry. I'm just not in a place where I can feel like I'm on trial. I've feel often like I've had to accept responsibility for every wrong in the marriage and frankly it's just not in me ro do it right now. I neeced somewhere I could just get out my thoughts and do some looking after myself for a bit and I guess I felt like that was being taken from me along with everything else I've lost this week. I really didn't mean to make it soind like I was attacking anyone on here though. My apologies if it ca,e off that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Jibril, I just found everything out this Tuesday night so I'm still very raw, sorry. I'm just not in a place where I can feel like I'm on trial. *I've feel often like I've had to accept responsibility for every wrong in the marriage* and frankly it's just not in me ro do it right now. I neeced somewhere I could just get out my thoughts and do some looking after myself for a bit and I guess I felt like that was being taken from me along with everything else I've lost this week. I really didn't mean to make it soind like I was attacking anyone on here though. My apologies if it ca,e off that way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you mean she makes you feel like it's all your fault? Or that she DID make you feel that way? If so... don't let her! Marital problems are the responsibility of BOTH parties. Her affair is 100% her. If she is trying to make it seem like the affair is in any way your fault....don't let her do that. And, take whatever time YOU need to sort thru it all.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

SK,
You have every right to feel what you feel. I'm not sure what happened with the pants thing but I can't blame you for wanting to reclaim your wife. 

SL,
Why would you want to withhold yourself from your husband? If he wanted to see you, how should he have approached you?

There is something deeper going on between you two... what's going on?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Do you mean she makes you feel like it's all your fault? Or that she DID make you feel that way? If so... don't let her! Marital problems are the responsibility of BOTH parties. Her affair is 100% her. If she is trying to make it seem like the affair is in any way your fault....don't let her do that. And, take whatever time YOU need to sort thru it all.


I say this in all honesty, but I truly feel like 90% of the responsibility for the marriage has been placed on my shoulders in the past, which is why it has been upsetting to me to feel like even in the face of what has happened, I'm supposed to still be accepting responsibility. If you read my thread, you'll notice that in the last few days, my wife has already tried to spin things in a way to have different reasons to be upset at me. 

Initially she justified the affair by saying she was still angry at me over perceived sexual slights, which I have been working hard on to be more cautious about, and had even already promised to try even harder when this craziness first started (before I found out about the affair since she was still misleading and lying about what was really going at that point). She said that anger is why she was able to keep lying about it and keep it going. These are all things we've dealt with in counseling, and frankly what she was mad about was a result of her not heeding the advice of our therapist and expecting me to navigate our sexual pitfalls alone, yet I was still trying to accept the blame and responsibility. But to justify an affair? Hell no, I'm not even able to entertain that.

I have said things in frustration and anger, and I have not always have been as sensitive as I should be for sure. That said, a huuuuuuuuuuge part of our marital problems are related to my wife's unresolved issues surrounding sex, forgiveness, trust, and intimacy. I have realized I can't fix them for her, and we will ALWAYS have theses problems as long as she continues to see them as mainly mine to try and fix. I can't, and love and patience has proven to not be enough.

We discussed what needs to happen tonight; that she needs to really start working on accepting responsibility and resolving this stuff or it will continue to happen, even if I leave, then with the next person and the person after them. I only hope some of it is beginning to sink in.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I think you are confused. I haven't cheated or been tempted to cheat. I'm just saying if someone was mad at me and then forcibly pulled my pants off it would freak me out. 
But the point is moot because he said that's not what happened at all. 
I think the intent of being on this site is good but at the same time misunderstandings come up and I don't know if its the most healthy thing to have strangers going over the details of your marital issues. 
I'm sorry I said anything, I just honestly hope that these two are able to come to a point of healing in their marriage. I will butt out now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

sandc said:


> SK,
> You have every right to feel what you feel. I'm not sure what happened with the pants thing but I can't blame you for wanting to reclaim your wife.
> 
> SL,
> ...


What's going on is his wife has lost her sexual attraction for him -- if she ever had it to begin with. Don't make my mistake of wasting 20 years being married to a woman because of the foolish belief that there's more to marriage than sex. Let her go and find a woman that will respect you and make you happy.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

diwali123 said:


> I think you are confused. I haven't cheated or been tempted to cheat. I'm just saying if someone was mad at me and then forcibly pulled my pants off it would freak me out.
> But the point is moot because he said that's not what happened at all.
> I think the intent of being on this site is good but at the same time misunderstandings come up and I don't know if its the most healthy thing to have strangers going over the details of your marital issues.
> I'm sorry I said anything, I just honestly hope that these two are able to come to a point of healing in their marriage. I will butt out now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, unfortunately I think you are right about it not being healthy to go about things this way with us posting back and forth. Thanks everyone for your input though. This forum has really helped me work through some things and I desperately needed that.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> What's going on is his wife has lost her sexual attraction for him -- if she ever had it to begin with. Don't make my mistake of wasting 20 years being married to a woman because of the foolish belief that there's more to marriage than sex. Let her go and find a woman that will respect you and make you happy.


:iagree:

I know this will sound harsh to Lady, but you should _never_ get involved with broken people Still Knight. It's sort of a moot point now, since you married one, but it's not too late to go your separate ways. Don't ever forget that - divorce is always an option.

Still Lady has her own issues she needs to deal with. If she wants to work things out with you, she should be making a bee-line to a counselor about her issues and trauma. She needs to be healthy in mind to be able to commit to a proper marriage with you. I don't believe she is ready for that at the moment. 

You can certainly wait things out and see if she gets better, but you shouldn't feel obligated either. As others have said, it's not your job to "fix" her, so if she isn't motivated enough to improve herself and repair the marriage, get to a lawyer and divorce her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Triggered? How long have you been married to still be triggered by your husband?


Some triggers never go away, especially if there was residual 'guilt' about the rape. (I know, crazy but some victims of rape do blame themselves for what happened, even in a deep, subconscious way.)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Yeah, unfortunately I think you are right about it not being healthy to go about things this way with us posting back and forth. Thanks everyone for your input though. This forum has really helped me work through some things and I desperately needed that.


This is actually very healthy! Seriously. I hope you two will stay and see if you can help yourselves and, eventually, others, too.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You both seem to be on this thread so I will throw in my take

1st---still lady, I do not know where you got the deluded idea that you were entitled to privacy in a mge.---When you took your vows, you AGREED to be an open book to each other----you wanted privacy, you should have stayed single, THERE IS NO PRIVACY IN A MGE.

Whether either of you like it or not---this A., went physical, when you pleasured yourself, in the marital bed, and that pleasuring was brought about by thoughts of your lover, NOT YOUR H.

Your H., should have long ago, made you go live in a small room in your H., with your clothes, and let you think a bit about the reality, of losing him---the small room, would be akin to the probable apartment you might be able to afford, had D., been on his mind

You have been given the greatest gift possible, a 2nd chance, and yet, you are still being selfish, and fighting your H., not showing remorse, and contriteness---you need to be SELFLESS

You want this to be over, and put behind you, well the the real truth of the matter is that for your H., it may NEVER be over---and you had better get used to that, cuz it is a truth, you are gonna have to face.

You even went so far as to be so open, that your own yound child saw, and understood what you were doing in that game, what kind of a mother are you anyway, that you would openly flaunt your lover in front of your own child.

You PROCLAIM, you wish to make it all right---BUT WHAT HAVE YOU
ACTUALLY DONE TO MAKE ANYTHING RIGHT

Big deal you agreed to finally be an open book, something you should have been all along, so you have done nothing

You spent countless hours, playing a stupid game, when you could have been doing things, to help the mge/household/kids/family all become better

To top all of it off, you fought your H., every step of the way

Once again, I ask you what have you done to help make this mge better, and to work toward R.-------besides accept that your H., has access----in all reality, how does your H., even know that you are not secretly still playing the game, talking to the other man----you have done nothing but lie, and fight your H., for months---Isn't it about time you PROVE, you are not still lying.

Your H., wanted to be intimate, he probably wanted to claim back what was once his, and you fought him there also----your excuse about him pulling down your panties, frightened/triggered you---he is your H., he has probably pulled down your panties Hundreds/thousands of times, with nothing but love for you---why would that change, 

I'll tell you why---cuz you still have your lover in your mind, and your H., has been relegated to the back burner---that is the most likely truth in re: to that situation

You better wake up, and start DOING ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING, to make this R., work, cuz you are just a stones throw away from having to be on your own, and trying to get a job and support yourself, and having to live on your own, and trying to make your way in the big wide world, and that might not be so easy for you.

Your H., should also demand you sign a Post--Nup, and you should do it freely with no complaint

You have destroyed everyone's life around you with your own greed, and though, you may have had prior problems, THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT, to ruin the lives of your children, and H.

It is time for you to become completely ACCOUNTABLE, SELFLESS, and to do ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING, to make this R. work.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> The day after I confessed, I wrote the OM to tell him everything was over, and I, beyond all stupidity, got sucked into an extended conversation with him, during which he asked for a picture. I took one on my phone and emailed it to myself, and then photoshopped it on my computer, where I left it. My husband found the picture in my email and documents.
> 
> I was momentarily upset when I found out he put monitoring software on my computer (I found out because he left the installation up) because he did it while I was out thinking I wouldn't know, and I was hoping we could be completely open about everything. I actually think monitoring software is a great idea. I was upset because he did it behind my back. Wrong of me, I'm sure.


Un-freakin-believable. You confess to your H, and I assume you told him that you'd put your energy into the marriage. Then, you grab a bottle of wine and take a bra pic for your online sweetie? Then...you get upset when you find monitoring software, b/c you were "hoping we could be completely open about everything." 

You were also upset b/c he did it behind your back? Did you take the wine/bra pick behind your H's back, or was he in the room holding the cork?

Still Knight - I hope this works out for you if you want it. I'd have a hard time not putting her clothes in hefty bags and tossing them out on the lawn.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Still Lady, at first I thought it was minor infidelity issues, minor EA, you were facing. 

Now, I don't know. You seem pretty f***** up, at least in deep deep fog. Do you even realize how far out it sounds, that you would take a pic, edit it and send it to OM just right after confession???

I think you need to hit the rock bottom in order to start all over.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Still Lady, at first I thought it was minor infidelity issues, minor EA, you were facing.
> 
> Now, I don't know. You seem pretty f***** up, at least in deep deep fog. Do you even realize how far out it sounds, that you would take a pic, edit it and send it to OM just right after confession???
> 
> I think you need to hit the rock bottom in order to start all over.


:iagree:

Trickle truth. No logic, but for the "fog".


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Trickle truth. No logic, but for the "fog".


Yep, and I fell for it.... I am getting sloppy.

OP, do you even want your husband in your life? Because if you do, you need another game plan for yourself. Drop th BS and get to work.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

OP - have you deleted ALL accounts at the game site, NEVER to return? If not, you're letting your H know what's really important to you.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I have deleted my accounts with the game, never to return. 

I am currently complying with my husband's requests. In fact, as I was emailing my husband, a male friend IMd me. I told my husband immediately and then told the friend I could never speak to him again and goodbye. 

I really am trying here. I was in a lot of fog and denial when everything first became exposed, but I see clearly the gravity of my choices and am dedicated to making them right. 

Still Knight has made a list of 19 items he needs from me in order to reconcile the marriage. I am working through them right this minute.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I am currently complying with my husband's requests. In fact, as I was emailing my husband, a male friend IMd me. I told my husband immediately and then told the friend I could never speak to him again and goodbye.


Why are you "emailing" your husband? Can you call him? Why is the internet such am important part of communicating with your H? Is it a problem just to shut down the computer and actually speak to your H?

I'm not trying to be annoying here; just asking because my WS went through the same "motions" because he was addicted to the internet, email, chat etc and eventually reverted back to old habits. So why would you continue to communicate over the internet - even to your own H?


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I was emailing him because he emailed me first and sent me a text message to check my email and respond. He is at work at the moment and can't talk on the phone.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

SL - if you keep up with all of the things you wrote in post #72, you guys have a good chance of making it. But...with the history of lies, expect your H to doubt you, for a long time. I know I would. Just keep pushing through. Good luck to the both of you.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I will keep pushing through.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I suggest you to forget about MC for now. Get IC. You need to deal with your intimathy issues first. I'm sorry horrible things happened to you, you didn't deserve it. Now it's still a terrible burden to you and your husband. It's obvious they colored the marriage since the very beginning, its scope created an horrible dynamic which snowballed from there. You should face them once for all mostly for You. Otherwise it won't last. You can't tell yourself you have been happy all those years, can you? I understand you are now reacting to the issue at hand but you need to start thinking more mid and long term. I know it's going to be very hard but you must. Clean your side. Face your demons. Drop the baggage. It will pay no matter the path of the marriage.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I have deleted my accounts with the game, never to return.
> 
> I am currently complying with my husband's requests.* In fact, as I was emailing my husband, a male friend IMd me. I told my husband immediately and then told the friend I could never speak to him again and goodbye. *
> 
> ...


Please, please for both your sakes, no lies and no garnishing the truth or omitting "minor" details.

Your husband, on reading this, may think, as I did....hang on, I thought there was only one other man....???

Maybe you just made an extra admission, or maybe there were several potential OMs but you only went wayward with one, or maybe you agreed with your husband no contact with any male online friends.

It can work out and be better than ever if you both want. Hang in there....recognise that at the moment you are a mess and all you can do is grit your teeth and keep going forward doing the right thing. And lean on your faith. The Christian teaching on forgiveness is God knows everything you have done, every dark thought, and yet he still loves and is willing to forgive you, support you, and help you get through. Both of you.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Make sure you don't let your husband become a "Truth Archeologist". Trust me...it's no fun.

My own wife, Regret on the forums here, hasn't made things the easiest for me in that regard. Please, learn from others' mistakes and don't repeat them. Good luck.


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## t_hopper_2012 (Apr 17, 2012)

Based on what your husband posted yesterday, it doesn't seem like you're pushing for forgiveness anymore. It seems like you're pushing it all back on him.

Why the switch? (And why do you let your father interfere in your marriage so much?)


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Wow. 

Man, I knew I'd get the witch burning here, but yikes. Gritting my teeth and entering back into the lion's den. 

In hindsight, allowing my dad to call Knight wasn't the brightest idea. I'm a human being here, fumbling my way through an abysmal situation. My dad came into my house while I was on the phone with Knight, very distraught. He knows things haven't been going well for us, so he said we needed to talk, now. 

I told my dad everything that had been going on. I fully admitted to him what I had done, just as I have with our friends and pastor. (this is harder than it sounds people! I had to tell my DAD that I had sexually explicit chat with a man online!). I keep seeing people here say I'm not admitting to what I did. I have! OK, so I didn't go into every detail my first post here -- Knight did all of that. I never denied a single thing he wrote. 

Every time I have to admit to a new person what I did, I bawl my eyes out. Because I have intense, shameful, regret. Because I am sorry for what I did. Because I am so remorseful. 

So I told my dad everything. He wanted to know what happened before all this. So I told him some things. and he wanted to go way back, how long have things been so awful in our marriage. And then he asked what we were going to do to move forward in all of this, and I told him Knight had written up a list of 19 conditions for reconciliation. I was under the impression that the list was to stay as is. Knight later told me it was up for discussion and revision. 

Most of the items on the list are very reasonable and I can most certainly see their worth. 100% transparency. Access to my emails accounts, social networking, et cetera. Yes. No flirting. Yes. No talking with men online. Yes. These are reasonable and of course I can accept them. But some of the items on the list were flat out Draconian and unreasonable, and living under a thumb isn't going to help our marriage at all. No one can live under a thumb and not eventually lose it and try to break free. Chaining me isn't going to make me a better partner. 

After I went over all of this with my dad, he asked me who was going to be my advocate. An imperfect parent as he may be (I'd love to see examples of parents who never messed up, by the way), he loves his daughter and wants what is best for her. No, he shouldn't have called, but he said I was just going to sit there and take it all and never stand up for myself. I'm sorry it happened. 

Being in this whole situation is enormously difficult, and I reached out to my family because as a wayward spouse, there is no support anywhere. Just a giant letter *A* burned onto my face and condemnation wherever I turn. I realize I made a gargantuan mistake. But is there any mercy at all? I am trying so hard to make this right, and the stoning I'm getting is a hard pill to swallow. It isn't like I'm not trying though, folks. Toss those stones; I know I deserve them. But let's not scorn and ridicule me for crying because they hurt. I am a human being, fallible and imperfect. And I've never navigated seas like this before. 

I realize this is all about me and the rotten decision I made, but am I allowed to talk about my husband's affair here, or is it irrelevant?


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

Do you see that by bringing your father into the middle of the biggest issue that your marriage has ever faced, you betrayed your husband's trust yet again? Your father is not part of your marriage and had no business inserting himself into the situation. He wasn't being a support system to you, he was trying to "fix" it by making it your husband's fault. It is not your father's place to be your advocate in your marriage. He has NO place in your marriage. 

If one of my or my husband's parents got involved in such a way in even a minor matter in my marriage, both me and my husband would be absolutely livid at the nerve and audacity of the parent. There would be repercussions for that parent.

And, now, you see by using your father as your support, you have probably destroyed the relationship between your husband and your father (and quite possibly the rest of your family). That's pretty selfish in my book. There are other resources available to you. Use them.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm curious as to what draconian measures he wishes to implement


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and while I think it is good to do as such and you should be able to discuss the affair with someone trusted you should have given your husband the courtesy of who you were going to talk with about it.

1) as weird as it sounds many BS's feel ashamed of the affair even though it isn't their fault. It's an embarrassing thing to go through.

2) it is important you choose people who can be supportive but not simply defend you blindly or take your side on everything. There's a good chunk of folk out there who believe that affairs exist because the BS was not paying enough attention to their spouse or are abusive or whatever crap they think justify an affair. Your father was even more extreme than most in his reaction and you should have known that he is a volatile person.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

A better way to have handled your father, and people in the future when you are confessing is for you to say to them, "I had an affair , I chose to betray my marriage and my husband. I own up to that and I'm doing what I need to do to return to my marriage and help my husband heal. I don't need you to help find excuses for what I did. I do not need you to find fault in my husband or blame to put on him, I chose then affair entirely myself, and I alone own responsibility for making that choice."

The problem wasn't your father calling your husband, the problem was you father took on the role of your defender over the affair and tried to dump the blame for it on your husband. He then tried to be a tough negotiator to argue away things you need to do to R. And you let him do it.

You need to tell your father you own this mess and you own the job of fixing it. You need his emotional support for you marriage, but you do not want any help in not owning your responsibility to fix what you destroyed. You do not need an advocate. Advocates negotiate things for you. You don't need negotiation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

> I realize this is all about me and the rotten decision I made, *but am I allowed to talk about my husband's affair here, or is it irrelevant?*


How long ago was this affair of your husband and has it been discussed between you two already?

You nor your BH came here speaking about his affair from the onset.
This was about what you did presently.
If your BH is engaged in an affair now..of course it is relevant..but if he is not and it is in the past..what relevancy does it have?
Save for you to bring it up to get the heat off of you and onto him.

I have noticed that you tend to blameshift to him quite a bit.

One thing that is always relevant..No one can make you have an affair..you choose that route.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

Quoted from Still Knight




> When I got home, my wife began immediately bringing up every wrong of mine in the marriage. She tried pulling the trick of making my indescretion out to be similar to hers and thought it was unfair I was only upset about what she had done. The problem is mine meant nothing and ended immediately, I'm not justifying it was a huge mistake I have begged God's forgiveness for, but it wasn't the same as what happened with her, with the continued lying and pursuit in the affair even as the marriage was in danger. She keeps bringing up the things that had led her to have an affair and lose her trust in ME, which I've assured her a million times I am determined to work on and I mean it.


This is classic blameshifting.

Are you really sorry for what you have done..or do you want to make your BH out to be the bad guy?
Granted..he has not been perfect..yet he is not blaming you for why he did what he did.
Why are you doing it to him?
You have to own this..you did this. Regardless of what happened..he did not force your fingers to write erotica. he did not put your finger on the button to take a picture of yourself inappropriately with the intent to send to the OM.

You are looking for someone to side with you..the best way to do that is be honest and accountable.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> A better way to have handled your father, and people in the future when you are confessing is for you to say to them, "I had an affair , I chose to betray my marriage and my husband. I own up to that and I'm doing what I need to do to return to my marriage and help my husband heal. I don't need you to help find excuses for what I did. I do not need you to find fault in my husband or blame to put on him, I chose then affair entirely myself, and I alone own responsibility for making that choice."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is almost verbatim what I said to my dad. 

You know, I'm not trying to blame shift here. I found out about my husband's affair the same day he found out about mine. His happened approximately two months before mine did. I'm still reeling from that, but I'm not allowed to work through it at all because mine was "worse", his meant "nothing", he didn't know the right way to tell me so he didn't (but that's not lying, even though my not telling stuff is lying), he continued texting and IMing with this girl even after it happened until he told me about it (he says he has now stopped all non-work-related talk with her) for months. I only have his word that nothing more happened than making out. 

It's the double standard that kills me. I'm not blame shifting, I'm trying to figure out how in the world I'm to navigate this whole mess. And I can't figure out for the life of me why I am not allowed to bring up these issues because they are in the past and throwing them at him now is blame shifting. I guess maybe I am crazy like he's told me many times, because I don't see how this makes me toying with him, blame shifting, and whatever else I'm being accused of. 

I'm not allowed to bring up anything at all because it is in the past? I'm not allowed to talk about these things? Once again, I have to just shut my mouth and sit there meekly while I'm told over and over again how horrible I am? Really? Because holding my tongue and sucking up a lot of pain hasn't been working for me in my marriage one bit. I tried that. It left me feeling desolate and broken. 

Listen, I want to do the hard work here, and I know it will be hard. I will make mistakes along the way -- I don't even know what I am doing. And he will make mistakes too. And I think we both need a great deal more mercy with each other for those mistakes. I have already made the determination to roll up my sleeves and delve into the hard work here. But that doesn't mean that I have zero say, or zero opinion, or zero emotions.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

Of course these things need to be discussed. His and yours.
You both have done wrong. My point is to own wht you have done and stop saying.. "I did this because you did that"..

It's not going to work that way.

Of course you need to discuss his indiscretion. It was just recently you found out.
Cheating is cheating.
There are some things that are done that can make one more diabolical than the other, but the bottom line is cheating..is wrong period.

He was deceptive and so were you....that's relevant.

You have opinions yes..but to be honest..you have been making some very bad decisions in trying to fix this.

Slow down..take the advice that will help you and work from there.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I have never said "I did this because you did that." Not ONCE. The closest I have come is saying, "I did this, and it was wrong, and these were the events that lead up to making my bad decision."

And I would love to slow down and take some advice, but the advice sure is hard to find buried in all the accusations, sarcasm, and complete misrepresentation and twisting of everything I say and do.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

> I have never said "I did this because you did that."


Word for word..no..maybe you haven't

You keep saying things "Led up to the affair" Are you saying it was things he did?

Nothing leads up to an affair..the affair is a choice.

I am not being sarcastic at all..just giving my opinion ..right or wrong as it may be.


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

Hmmm. The timeline is interesting. It's sounding like you guys disconnected from each other at about the same time. Is that accurate? He turned to this OW (a co-worker?) and you turned to the internet OM? Did anything precipitate that?

And I do think it is relevant that you both had your D-Day's on the same day. What a mess. So, it's more than possible that neither one of you has gotten the full truth from the other?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> That is almost verbatim what I said to my dad.
> 
> You know, I'm not trying to blame shift here. *I found out about my husband's affair the same day he found out about mine. *His happened approximately two months before mine did. I'm still reeling from that, but I'm not allowed to work through it at all because mine was "worse", his meant "nothing", he didn't know the right way to tell me so he didn't (but that's not lying, even though my not telling stuff is lying), he continued texting and IMing with this girl even after it happened until he told me about it (he says he has now stopped all non-work-related talk with her) for months. I only have his word that nothing more happened than making out.
> 
> It's the double standard that kills me. I'm not blame shifting, I'm trying to figure out how in the world I'm to navigate this whole mess. And I can't figure out for the life of me why I am not allowed to bring up these issues because they are in the past and throwing them at him now is blame shifting. I guess maybe I am crazy like he's told me many times, because I don't see how this makes me toying with him, blame shifting, and whatever else I'm being accused of.


If you found out your H's affair the same day that he found out about yours, then that particular event could not have contributed at all to your decision to have your affair. To then focus on what HE did is indeed "blame shifting" at this point because your intent is to put HIM in the defensive position and detract (once again) your ownership of your own affair.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You absolutely can be upset about he did. In fact it is very good plan for him to give you the exact same transparency etc that he has asked from you. No secrets for either spouse.

Here is thing, you don't get out of avoiding the consequences for your choice to have your affair even if he did it too.

And, he doesn't get out of avoiding consequences for what he chose to do, even after what you did.

You both own up to your own nasty selfish choices and you both own up to your consequences and your need to refocus on your spouse.

But both of you need to just stop trying to use the others choices to mitigate the impact of your own.

So he did X, you did Y is past history. What are each of you doing today and tomorrow to be open, honest, loyal and to put your spouse as your #1 priority above all others, including yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> Hmmm. The timeline is interesting. It's sounding like you guys disconnected from each other at about the same time. Is that accurate? He turned to this OW (a co-worker?) and you turned to the internet OM? Did anything precipitate that?
> 
> And I do think it is relevant that you both had your D-Day's on the same day. What a mess. So, it's more than possible that neither one of you has gotten the full truth from the other?


Yes, we disconnected right around the same time. And who knows what the full truth is at this point. 



SoulStorm said:


> Word for word..no..maybe you haven't
> 
> You keep saying things "Led up to the affair" Are you saying it was things he did?
> 
> ...


The events that led up to it were things we both did. If I say, "I felt lonely and isolated and then made the choice to fall into talking to someone online" that is not me blame shifting. 



survivorwife said:


> If you found out your H's affair the same day that he found out about yours, then that particular event could not have contributed at all to your decision to have your affair. To then focus on what HE did is indeed "blame shifting" at this point because your intent is to put HIM in the defensive position and detract (once again) your ownership of your own affair.


So.. his focusing on what I did is blame shifting too at this point because his intent is to put ME in the defensive position and detract his ownership of his own affair?

Just asking.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You absolutely can be upset about he did. In fact it is very good plan for him to give you the exact same transparency etc that he has asked from you. No secrets for either spouse.
> 
> Here is thing, you don't get out of avoiding the consequences for your choice to have your affair even if he did it too.
> 
> ...


OK, now this seems to be solid advice. This is something i can work with. Thank you.


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

.....


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Okay time out here. Things in these threads have gone back and forth, blame shifting, minimalizing on both parties and I don't see much in the way of progress. Would you or still knight please post up the list for reconciliation. Remember this thread is anonymous. 
Also you "both" screwed up yes. His Affair was bad and we do not yet know the depth of it. Still Knight why don't you elaborate and do full transparency. 
STill lady you have realized that what you did was wrong. It was terrible and in a lot of circumstances would be marriage ending. In following these threads you had a long term A and you checked out of your marriage totally. 
I have seen this back and forth between you carried out through out your threads. You are obviously both hurting. You are both in a very precarious place. You both need to settle down and find some way to communicate without scathing one another. 
Still knight your A was an A deal with it and all that comes with it. You W deserves some closure and full transparency. You both owe that too each other. I am sorry but you two are going nowhere fast. I suggest you two have separate threads and do something similar to somedaydig and regret's thread. You can have all the member of CWI acting as mediator. If you both don't come to some sort of compromise in all this then your just making it worse for both of you.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

> I felt lonely and isolated and then made the choice to fall into talking to someone online


If you say that..what was your reason for feeling lonely and isolated?
Was it because of your own feelings or are you saying your husband made you feel that way?

It depends on the reason you say you felt lonely and isolated that determines the blameshifting.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't believe anyone can _make _you feel anything. Or do anything for that matter. 

I allowed a huge disconnect in the marriage to cause me to feel isolated and alone. I allowed his actions to impact my actions. I take all ownership of my emotions, feelings, and decisions.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Badbane -- Knight has asked that I not show anyone else the list because he says it needs editing and he wrote it in an emotional state and it was never meant to be taken as a final draft. I will honor those wishes.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

> I take all ownership of my emotions, feelings, and decisions.



Very good then.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> Badbane -- Knight has asked that I not show anyone else the list because he says it needs editing and he wrote it in an emotional state and it was never meant to be taken as a final draft. I will honor those wishes.


Okay that's fine but I know still knight is lurking and you both need to get to some point where you can start talking. Not catfighting.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Ok, I have NEVER once refused to accept ownership of what happened with me and my coworker. It was wrong, I was mortified when it happened, I begged God for forgiveness, and I told her that we had to keep things from being too personal. It was in hindsight probably wrong to continue even talking to her much, but I knew for a fact that nothing like that was ever going to happen again, because I knew I couldn't do it to my wife or myself. We never communicated outside of work, as I don't think that's right.

I'm totally willing to do whatever it takes to make her comfortable. I've already told the woman I can't text her and even went further to say we needed to keep all communication very light. We've been friendly for going on 4 years now, so it hurt her feelings pretty bad to hear that, but I did it for my marriage.

I also confessed what I did when my wife started finally telling me what had happened with her. She would have never found out. I told the whole truth about it, and she knows I did. I'm not sure what's going on with the sudden pretending she doesn't. I even offered up to her last night any of the details she may feel she needed. 

The difference is, I didn't continue it even after my marriage was on the line and it was almost discovered. I didn't knowingly lie to her when asked about anything, because she never asked. Yes, I could have and should have confessed it earlier, but I knew it was done and over with. I tried to give her the same escape from her game and whatever inappropriateness was happening in there, but she kept it going until I had no choice but to find evidence and force the truth out of her. That's where the gigantic violation of trust comes in, from all of the lying. Had she done the same thing I did, I would have gotten over it easy, if she just reassured me she was going to be totally transparent about it and limit contact.

I also don't pull up any reasons for why it happened, what led me to it, or why it was justified, because there is nothing! Sure, you could say I was very lonely and wanted some brief comfort at a bad time, but who cares? It was wrong. I've never once said she shouldn't have her own feelings about it though. The problem is we both need to rebuild trust here and stop the betrayl stuff, but it seems only one of us has and remains willing to do that.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Should add that if my wife even insisted I not say anything other than basic greetings, I'd even do that. I'd do whatever it takes to make my error in judgement right...but I'm just not feeling that from the other side.

She even already went back on our deal to cut all contact off with people from her game, and readded a lady to her Facebook after I stormed the house and left the first time because she dragged her feet about removing her. How is that fixing anything?


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

No remorse, obviously. None at all.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Knight...I know this is tough, man. Seriously tough. If I may ask, and please don't take offense to the question: Do you kind of want to focus on Lady's affair because it lasted longer?

See what I'm getting at? It is easier on us to focus on OUR pain that was caused by the wrongdoings of our spouse because it f'ng hurts. However, did your kiss with your coworker just happen? You were at the coffee pot and all of a sudden your hands reached for the carafe at the same time...touched and immediately you found yourselves in an embrace? Probably not.

It was the culmination of a bit longer "courtship". One that quite possibly could have lasted as long as Lady's affair.

I'm trying to ask BOTH of you to recognize the pain you've caused each other on your Dday. And if you truly want to work through it, you truly need to own your own stuff. The stuff you hid from each other.

And figure out why.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> She even already went back on our deal to cut all contact off with people from her game, and readded a lady to her Facebook after I stormed the house and left the first time because she dragged her feet about removing her. How is that fixing anything?


It's not. You've grabbed your sack in some of this, and stood your ground. Looks like she is testing, little by little, to see how quickly you'll cave.

What is your boundary here? What is the consequence when she crosses it...again?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Should add that if my wife even insisted I not say anything other than basic greetings, I'd even do that. I'd do whatever it takes to make my error in judgement right...but I'm just not feeling that from the other side.
> 
> She even already went back on our deal to cut all contact off with people from her game, *and readded a lady to her Facebook after I stormed the house and left the first time because she dragged her feet about removing her. *How is that fixing anything?


I wonder why she did that? Is this "lady" more important to her than you? Perhaps she will explain why, after all this, she re-added her against your wishes? Or is this one of those things from the list that she thought was too strict and decided to not comply with that particular request.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

Hmmm. Still Lady...

What have you to say about your husband's comments?

It appears he was definitely remorseful for what he did than you have led on.
He seems to have acknowledged, complied and even been proactive about what he did.

You appeared to be more deceptive and less cooperative. Even non-compliant sometimes.


> She even already went back on our deal to cut all contact off with people from her game, and readded a lady to her Facebook after I stormed the house and left the first time because she dragged her feet about removing her. How is that fixing anything?


Is this really being compliant and accepting your wrongdoing? 

I am beginning to think that you have an agenda and it's not for your husband's benefit.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Ok, I have NEVER once refused to accept ownership of what happened with me and my coworker. It was wrong, I was mortified when it happened, I begged God for forgiveness


I did this too, but somehow I'm not remorseful enough. 

You know, I can totally let go of the thing with the co-worker. I can. 

I re-added the friend before our very effective talk last night. I can 100% agree to no more chatting online with men, staying 100% transparent, keeping all of my stuff out in the open. I can do that. I am doing that. What I cannot agree to is blindly being told whom I can be friends with, within moderation. This friend had nothing to do with what I did online; in fact, when I mentioned that I was having problems with boundaries, she tried very hard to steer me in the other direction. I can't enthusiastically agree that he may dictate who I can talk to and be friends with. (within reason)


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I did this too, but somehow I'm not remorseful enough.
> 
> You know, I can totally let go of the thing with the co-worker. I can.
> 
> I re-added the friend before our very effective talk last night. I can 100% agree to no more chatting online with men, staying 100% transparent, keeping all of my stuff out in the open. I can do that. I am doing that. What I cannot agree to is blindly being told whom I can be friends with, within moderation. This friend had nothing to do with what I did online; in fact, when I mentioned that I was having problems with boundaries, she tried very hard to steer me in the other direction. I can't enthusiastically agree that he may dictate who I can talk to and be friends with. (within reason)


She aided and was part of the affair. She attacked your husband and called him delusional when I tried to discuss what happened with her, and wrote me a nasty message about how I had taken you from the game and was a terrible husband. She's also had her own indesrections in the game. That's not a healthy friendship for your marriage.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

> I can't enthusiastically agree that he may dictate who I can talk to and be friends with


This is not about who you can be friends with..this is about saving your marriage.

You would want him to do the same if you felt someone was a threat and not a help.

You are not 100% in this. You gave him stipulations..He complied. 

I think it would only be fair that you do the same.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Knight...I know this is tough, man. Seriously tough. If I may ask, and please don't take offense to the question: Do you kind of want to focus on Lady's affair because it lasted longer?
> 
> See what I'm getting at? It is easier on us to focus on OUR pain that was caused by the wrongdoings of our spouse because it f'ng hurts. However, did your kiss with your coworker just happen? You were at the coffee pot and all of a sudden your hands reached for the carafe at the same time...touched and immediately you found yourselves in an embrace? Probably not.
> 
> ...


I wanted to address this because there may be some truth to that. I think it was just her flat out lying to me over the course of several days and going back on what we had agreed on, over and over again. That's still happening. Plus the sexual nature of her affair, and the fact they exchanged, "I love you's", and that what so premeditated, does make it different.

You're right though, there was some personal talking about my relationship with my coworker, some sympathy I enjoyed, and yeah, the relationship was allowed to develop too far.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I did this too, but somehow I'm not remorseful enough.
> 
> You know, I can totally let go of the thing with the co-worker. I can.
> 
> I re-added the friend before our very effective talk last night. I can 100% agree to no more chatting online with men, staying 100% transparent, keeping all of my stuff out in the open. I can do that. I am doing that. What I cannot agree to is blindly being told whom I can be friends with, within moderation. This friend had nothing to do with what I did online; in fact, when I mentioned that I was having problems with boundaries, she tried very hard to steer me in the other direction. I can't enthusiastically agree that he may dictate who I can talk to and be friends with. (within reason)


So it didn't occur to you to ask your H *BEFORE* adding her back as a friend? Discussing it with him in advance of the act? Instead you decided to add her back in spite of what your H requested, and then you feel a need to justify your actions once he *discovered* this peace of information?

And who decides what's "within reason"? Does that mean you decide to pick and choose what requests/demands you will comply with and which ones you will ignore? And this will help your marriage? How?

:slap:


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

"My fake online relationships are more important than a real one with my husband!"

How many of us have heard this song and dance in our own lives?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> So it didn't occur to you to ask your H *BEFORE* adding her back as a friend? Discussing it with him in advance of the act? Instead you decided to add her back in spite of what your H requested, and then you feel a need to justify your actions once he *discovered* this peace of information?
> 
> And who decides what's "within reason"? Does that mean you decide to pick and choose what requests/demands you will comply with and which ones you will ignore? And this will help your marriage? How?
> 
> :slap:


You couldn't have summed up my thoughts and concerns anymore precisely. We just seem caught in this dance of oh yeah, I'll do this. No I won't. Or here's a new betrayl/bit of dishonesty to throw in the mix. I'm like clinging desperately to the hope that this dance will stop, but I'm realizing that's not happening, and probably never will happen.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> She aided and was part of the affair. She attacked your husband and called him delusional when I tried to discuss what happened with her, and wrote me a nasty message about how I had taken you from the game and was a terrible husband. She's also had her own indesrections in the game. That's not a healthy friendship for your marriage.



^^^^

This, right here explains why the "lady" should have been and was removed. And your W added her back? Unbelievable.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> What I cannot agree to is blindly being told whom I can be friends with, within moderation. This friend had nothing to do with what I did online; in fact, when I mentioned that I was having problems with boundaries, she tried very hard to steer me in the other direction. I can't enthusiastically agree that he may dictate who I can talk to and be friends with. (within reason)


I can understand what you're saying. I think, though, that if I were in your shoes, until the dust settles on this big mess, I would go along with my spouse's wishes. At some point, once trust is partially rebuilt, you could then talk to him about adding old friends.

You say that this friend had nothing to do with the affair. You also lied to your H several times. Is he supposed to fully trust you at this point? I sure as shyte wouldn't.

You two seem to be on the verge of divorce. Is your online friend more important than your marriage?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> I can understand what you're saying. I think, though, that if I were in your shoes, until the dust settles on this big mess, I would go along with my spouse's wishes. At some point, once trust is partially rebuilt, you could then talk to him about adding old friends.
> 
> You say that this friend had nothing to do with the affair. You also lied to your H several times. Is he supposed to fully trust you at this point? I sure as shyte wouldn't.
> 
> You two seem to be on the verge of divorce. Is your online friend more important than your marriage?


EXACTLY. We're only a day over a week from D Day and yet deals just keep getting broken and broken over again. Right now, there is no trust and we're trying to rebuild it. I'm sure at some point it can be reestablished and maybe she could be readded, but this isnt' the time for that yet. How is that a desire to fix anything anyway? I came home, after leaving because she wouldn't drop that lady, only because she reassured me she would, "do whatever it takes" to fix this marriage, including removing her. 

Man, typing that out makes me see what an idiot I am. Hmm.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

Your current behavior Still Lady..is going to end your marriage.

You're posturing..not cooperating.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

SK, SL, you two are both so f'ed up right now. Take a breather. So you've both really hurt one another. You both know what pain infidelity causes. Now what? Fight about it until the divorce? Get that list together and BOTH of you follow it. Both of you dump all your friends and concentrate on fixing your marriage... or don't and just end it. Save yourselves both a lot of grief and just end it, right?

SK, wouldn't life be better without SL? SL, wouldn't life be so much better without SK? SK, you could start chasing that work cutie again. SL, you could have all the online fun you ever wanted.

What do you two really want? Keep trying to one up each other on blame? Or quit f'ing around and start working on this?

TAM collective, I think you need to be hard on both these folks.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Man, typing that out makes me see what an idiot I am. Hmm.


You're NOT an idiot. This sh_t is hard. But you're not an idiot.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

sandc said:


> Get that list together and BOTH of you follow it.


I want this. I want to do whatever it takes to fix my marriage and do my best to make my wife happy. PERIOD. But it takes two to tango and there's the impasse.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> EXACTLY. We're only a day over a week from D Day and yet deals just keep getting broken and broken over again.


Deals are getting broken b/c you're allowing it. She's trampling all over your azz in things like this. Also, stop thinking of this as "deals." These are not deals, these are your boundaries. Think long and hard about what your boundaries are, and what the consequences are. 

With the toxic friend, and with the lies and level of disrespect you've received, I'd tell wifey, "Your choice. Pick the online friend or me." If she picks the friend, you file, b/c she just showed you how much you're worth in her eyes.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> I wanted to address this because there may be some truth to that. I think it was just her flat out lying to me over the course of several days and going back on what we had agreed on, over and over again. That's still happening. Plus the sexual nature of her affair, and the fact they exchanged, "I love you's", and that what so premeditated, does make it different.
> 
> You're right though, there was some personal talking about my relationship with my coworker, some sympathy I enjoyed, and yeah, the relationship was allowed to develop too far.


Thank you for being so honest there. See, Lady...THIS is the issue. It's not even the affair that hurts so much ~ its the lying over and over and over. It can be a f'ng death knell.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

OK. 

Clearly I need to take some time to think about things. I have you all here, some respectfully and some not so respectfully, saying one thing, and then other counsel telling me something else. And I am just so freaking confused i can't even tell what the right thing to do is anymore. 

Of course my marriage is more important than friendships. I re-added my friend after Knight told me for the whatever'th time that it was over and he's leaving. I figured I was going to need some emotional support (though I'm guessing I don't deserve any sympathy or support from anyone). I can't talk to my family now. I can't talk to friends. I evidently am allowed to talk to you guys here, but kindness is few and far between. So ... what the heck am I supposed to do? I'm dying here, and confused as hell.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

> I can't talk to friends


I am sure you can talk to friends who are "friends of the marriage"

Not those who were participating in the same online activities as you were.

I can understand his feelings on that.

You really need to take a look at boundaries and the importance of your marriage.

People who counsel you to do things contrasting to what your HUSBAND and you agree on are not helping you at all.

What matters is what you and your husband agree on.

Not your family or friends


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Should add that if my wife even insisted I not say anything other than basic greetings, I'd even do that. I'd do whatever it takes to make my error in judgement right...but I'm just not feeling that from the other side.
> 
> She even already went back on our deal to cut all contact off with people from her game, and readded a lady to her Facebook after I stormed the house and left the first time because she dragged her feet about removing her. How is that fixing anything?


It isn't. I removed any and ALL people from Facebook and email and cell contacts who were in any way remotely related to my online affairs. Yes, I had two. Someone who is questionable or even a "no" for contacting is off limits. Period. There was one who I considered like family...however, we were too close for my and my husband's comfort so that person was REMOVED. I explained the reason and the reply was "I completely understand. I wish you the best and if you ever DO need to talk, I'm here for you." A true friend, I believe. But also understood my reasons for no further contact. 

The point is that in order to move forward, you have to lay it all on the table, remove the poisons from your life.... this includes friends who are detrimental to the marriage. If she is unwilling to do this, it shows she really does NOT want the marriage to work.

Oh, and the woman my husband had been texting? I was ok at first... and then I saw texts where he called her sexy and the texts filled with innuendo....Still, I was willing to look past it. Until I saw his reply to her asking if he felt more than friendship. When he said yes, but now that he's getting what he needs from me, I said no more contact, period. And he was more than willing to accept my terms... her or me. He picked me. 

Look, you both have the right to be upset over the affairs/indiscretions. What you need to do is figure out what it will take to fix the marriage...or even if you CAN fix it. 

I'm glad, Knight, that you asked God for forgiveness. Hindsight, I know, but your wife should have been told right away. Instead, you kept it from her... a lie by omission. Things like this, you need to be open and honest about from the very start. Can you do that, going forward?

Lady, same question for you. Can you do that too? instead of escaping when you feel hurt, can you discuss with your husband what is bothering you? Instead of confiding in your online friends about everything? Can you talk to him instead of running to these OM? And yes, I know... you will probably say there was only one OM. But I know how likely it is that there was at least one other who was "waiting in the wings"...even if you are/were semi-clueless about it.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

SoulStorm said:


> I am sure you can talk to friends who are "friends of the marriage"
> 
> Not those who were participating in the same online activities as you were.
> 
> ...


That is exactly the point. One would assume that they agreed she would unfriend the "lady" in question. She apparently did that. Then, she decided on her own, without consulting her H that she "needed" that particular friend and added her back without consulting her H about her intentions and/or discussing this with him beforehand. And this is where we are. And now come the excuses.

A boundary was crossed. What now?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> That is exactly the point. One would assume that they agreed she would unfriend the "lady" in question. She apparently did that. Then, she decided on her own, without consulting her H that she "needed" that particular friend and added her back without consulting her H about her intentions and/or discussing this with him beforehand. And this is where we are. And now come the excuses.
> 
> A boundary was crossed. What now?


Either she or I are leaving. She refuses to take my calls to discuss it, saying I want her to not have friends and be alone. I have said numerous times that I desperately want her to have friends and will support that 100%. Inspite of everything going on yesterday, I even encouraged her to go out with her friend while I watched the children.

So yeah, no choice now and I can't keep arguing my case for things I need to feel have been let go to repair this thing. I don't want to leave, but clearly more time is needed to dexide where priorities are. Worth mentioning that my wife doesn't even know the woman in question in real life and has only beene friends with her a few months. This isn't a close personal, years long friendship we're fighting so jard over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

damn.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I'll go ahead and leave. I clearly am not in a place where I can agree to shut up and obey without question. I mean, I tried that before. Just lay there and take it because it's my duty to the marriage. OK. I need to think long and hard before I can honestly say I can agree to it and mean it. 

I turned off my phone, and the laptop is being shut off too. 

I just need to know if I am taking the children with me or not. I mean, you have no obligation to take care of my son, but should I take our daughter with me or can you arrange for childcare for her?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Either she or I are leaving. She refuses to take my calls to discuss it, saying I want her to not have friends and be alone. I have said numerous times that I desperately want her to have friends and will support that 100%. Inspite of everything going on yesterday, I even encouraged her to go out with her friend while I watched the children.
> 
> So yeah, no choice now and I can't keep arguing my case for things I need to feel have been let go to repair this thing. I don't want to leave, but clearly more time is needed to dexide where priorities are. Worth mentioning that my wife doesn't even know the woman in question in real life and has only beene friends with her a few months. This isn't a close personal, years long friendship we're fighting so jard over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Interesting... my husband DID try to play that "I can't have any friends" card in the beginning. I looked him right in the eye and said "Yes you can.... just not *THAT* friend!" We have mutual friends who are also opposite sex friends. But these friends are friends to the marriage. But you are right, Knight. What is more important? Friends or marriage?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Not just our marriage on the sacrificial alter for an online friendship with someone from her game, but the lives of our children that have been hefted upon there. Breaks my heart that that's what everything comes down to. Being right. Not giving an inch.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

I gave up a promotion I worked hard for at work because of all of this hitting right when it was up. I was willing to give up whatever it took because it's that important to me.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm not trying to be right. And I have given so many inches. So many. They are always forgotten the second I slip up. No matter how many sorries or regrets I express. Knight is allowed to mess up over and over and over, and say sorry, and I'm a beast for not "forgiving" him. 

I mess up and I'm blameshifting, not giving an inch, sacrificing all I hold dear for something of less significance. And sorry don't cut it. 

The double standard is enough to drive me to insanity.


ETA: I am deeply sorry about the promotion. And I am sorry it came at the time it did. As soon as I have surgery to remove this tumor, I will be out of your hair. Maybe you can reapply.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

What a selfish woman. SOME PERSON YOU MET THRU A GAME IS NOT A REAL FRIEND. She's no friend to you or your marriage.

Why would you throw away a marriage over this? 

Knight, you certainly have my sympathies. You deserve better.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Either she or I are leaving. She refuses to take my calls to discuss it, saying I want her to not have friends and be alone. I have said numerous times that I desperately want her to have friends and will support that 100%. Inspite of everything going on yesterday, I even encouraged her to go out with her friend while I watched the children.
> 
> So yeah, no choice now and I can't keep arguing my case for things I need to feel have been let go to repair this thing. I don't want to leave, but clearly more time is needed to dexide where priorities are. Worth mentioning that my wife doesn't even know the woman in question in real life and has only beene friends with her a few months. This isn't a close personal, years long friendship we're fighting so jard over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


On your thread, you mentioned that she went out "with a friend" for the evening. Who was that "friend"? (Rhetorical question - no need to answer here). Point is, there apparently is a friend that she can speak to, AND who happens to be someone that you approve of.

I'm so sorry you are going through this mess aka "brick wall". I've been there myself, which explains why my H and I are separated. I've seen the games played for myself and I know how awful it can be.

And if it wasn't the "friend", it would be something else.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> What a selfish woman. SOME PERSON YOU MET THRU A GAME IS NOT A REAL FRIEND. She's no friend to you or your marriage.
> 
> Why would you throw away a marriage over this?
> 
> Knight, you certainly have my sympathies. You deserve better.


And you don't exist either. 

I'm not throwing away my marriage. 

Maybe he does deserve better. I'm sorry I took up so much of his time. I wish to God I hadn't have just taken all that pain for so long without saying anything because I thought it was my duty. If I could have just spoken up earlier, maybe he could have just left while I was pregnant.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

There is no double standard that i see. I see you posturing. You are the one that is not giving. I'm sorry, but saying you are going to do something, do it, then take it back is not being sorry.
You both are victims.
What i see is knight is working at this..complying to what you want..and you keep posturing for control.

Turning off your phone and laptop is really helping this isn't it?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Check your phone. I don't need you to respond.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> On your thread, you mentioned that she went out "with a friend" for the evening. Who was that "friend"?


A close friend of mine I've had for the past 5 or so years. It will just be a matter of time before he doesn't approve of that one too.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> OK.
> 
> Clearly I need to take some time to think about things. I have you all here, some respectfully and some not so respectfully, saying one thing, and then other counsel telling me something else. And I am just so freaking confused i can't even tell what the right thing to do is anymore.
> 
> Of course my marriage is more important than friendships. I re-added my friend after Knight told me for the whatever'th time that it was over and he's leaving. I figured I was going to need some emotional support (though I'm guessing I don't deserve any sympathy or support from anyone). I can't talk to my family now. I can't talk to friends. I evidently am allowed to talk to you guys here, but kindness is few and far between. So ... what the heck am I supposed to do? I'm dying here, and confused as hell.


Mam you are still in what we call the fog. You have yet to realize that everyone in that game was toxic. They were toxic friends that enable, supported, and even pushed you towards those behaviors. 
You need to see the game and those people as part of the problem. We are not nice because you don't need nice right now. We can tell you are stuck and confused because the fantasy world you lived it is still trying to draw you back in. 
We are here to help. The conflict is coming from the fact that we are hearing one side of the the story and a an hour later the other side of the story. 
You have hundreds of people on here that have different views.That's what's up with the ping pong. I mean you guys are literally arguing online. 
Stop that you guys need to argue this out and come here for advice. Don't come here to fight and argue cause it is just gonna end up a cluster. STill lady actions be far louder than words. STill knight had a lot of words followed up by betrayal through actions. I think it would be prudent if still lady would just take this. I mean it has only been a week you need to just lay down and take it. Do everything to show your spouse through action that you mean to reconcile. I just read a woman who is still lost in the fog.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I'm not trying to be right. And I have given so many inches. So many. They are always forgotten the second I slip up. No matter how many sorries or regrets I express. Knight is allowed to mess up over and over and over, and say sorry, and I'm a beast for not "forgiving" him.
> 
> I mess up and I'm blameshifting, not giving an inch, sacrificing all I hold dear for something of less significance. And sorry don't cut it.
> 
> ...


What is this exactly still lady explain this?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> A close friend of mine I've had for the past 5 or so years. It will just be a matter of time before he doesn't approve of that one too.


No, it was people in the game, and that was it. That was my main condition. I've NEVER told you couldn't be friends with someone. You may have made your decision here, but don't try to twist the facts.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Calm down, Lady. You are "reacting". Two steps back.
Sending clarity your way.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> A close friend of mine I've had for the past 5 or so years. It will just be a matter of time before he doesn't approve of that one too.


Still Lady, you need to step back a while. Calm down, don't overreact, just read and hear words for exactly what they are.

You sound very self-righteous ATM. Why can't you just say "I F***** up, what can I do to make it right again?"

And most important, leave your fantasy world.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Caved again...said she could keep the friendship. Our marriage didn't seem worth tossing away over one person online.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

Again..you cave and she gets what she wants. She's very manipulative. Good luck with her.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Bad place here....stop and think, please.

*SK*, to me your affair is every bit as bad as your wife's You say that it's different because you know you have cut off all contact, but does your wife know that? Yes I know you have told her, but why should she believe you? When your partner cheats on you it makes you doubt everything they have said. If you are allowed to doubt her word, isn't she equally allowed to doubt yours? If we challenge your wife for omitting key info, how should we respond to you?

Lots of people on TAM would say you have to go no contact and that means changing jobs. 

If you were to have a "worse" affair than your wife's, would hers suddenly become ok? 

*SL*, you are feeling attacked, and I understand it. I am one who has questioned your word and I stand by those questions. You have not been fully truthful here. But I get you are hurting, and my reason for being on this thread is to support you. You need support. If you re-read my posts you will see that I said that before.

*Both of you* are in a very, very bad place right now. You've both messed up. You are staring at the emotional and financial damage of divorce. You can come back from the brink but it's painful and it starts with truthfully working through your issues.

You can hold onto your hurt, and why the other person is wrong and you are right, and end up alone. Or you can start accepting you both messed up, and each focus on demonstrating to the other that you get that and are trying to change.

How much do you love each other?


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Let me see if I'm right: 
Wife had ongoing online affair with someone in a video game which involved "I love you"s, bra pics, masturbating for him, and writing him erotica. 
Husband had a woman at work kiss him out of the blue and turned her down. 

Obviously there were marital issues before either of those things happened. Honestly lady you sound like you are still on your way out. you have one foot out the door, not necessarily to another man but because of your disappointment with your marriage which started the affair. 
There are too many people here who have been wounded by affairs for you to get any real help Lady. 
You are simultaneously being asked to decide if you really want your marriage when you already seem ready to leave and having to do the work of reconciliation ASAP. 
I don't know what I would do in your shoes but since there are kids involved, I highly suggest you both get counseling. 
Lady you know I am a survivor abuse and it doesn't excuse affairs but maybe this is your tipping point in your life where you can really deal with what happened to you deeply or else you will carry it into other relationships and it could affect your kids. 
Maybe there are forums for wayward spouses who are trying to heal that you could visit. The trouble is I know you need support but sometimes the process isn't pretty and you need a space that your h can't be in to heal, like individual therapy. 
Knight I feel bad for you. I keep thinking about these cartoon figures sitting on a bed and wondering what in the h drives adults to become so involved in a false reality. it just seems so childish but I'm not into video games. 
Please get some professional help and don't do anything rash. 
About your FIL: often it's hard for parents to admit that their kids have done anything wrong. What father wants to hear anything sexual about his daughter much less that she's setting and cheating online? I think he couldn't handle his feelings about it do he went into angry protective role because it feels better. He does need to keep his nose out of the details.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Funny how she came on here at first and was so full of regret. Then no time at all and she shows absolutely NO remorse. Oh, maybe her words sound like remorse....words are cheap and easy. I'm talking about her actions. NO REMORSE.


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## skip76 (Aug 30, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> Caved again...said she could keep the friendship. Our marriage didn't seem worth tossing away over one person online.


you need patience my friend. do you expect her to change overnight? NO, then quit caving so soon when you don't get results. Let her mind run, days on end. right now she knows you can not go a day without making up with her. It can take days to break a two year old from one bad habit once they realize your reaction is not going to change. Just because she is acting like a spoiled 2 year old doesnt mean she will break so soon. This could take months of you remaining in the same frame of mind, F^%$ this sh1t, she is not worth it. It would prob be easier to start fresh with someone else.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

What is needed here is a sit down of the 2 of you, and I will explain

Just try to attempt the following----this coming weekend---the TWO of you lock yourself into the house, starting fri, after work-----and you do not leave till, you either work out your marital problems, or you agree to D.

You bring in enuff food, so there is no leaving---send the kids to their grandparents-----turn off ALL phones, and computers---and F'ing talk to each other, and keep on talking---not blaming, not screaming---just discussing, and trying to work it all out---you both cheated, you both need assurances, so give them---figure out who can be friends, and who can't---just lock yourselves in the house and work on your F'ing mge---cuz I really do not think either of you wanna D----you are both products of outside forces, that have screwed things up for you-------TALK TO EACH OTHER


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm close to calling BS on this whole thread. Just too coincidental that they post minutes after each other. Don't they have anything else in their lives to do?

But on the basis of being a good poster here, I'd tell both of them to get off TAM and talk to each other in person. Trading barbs over a message forum will do no good at all. And listening to all of us will do more harm than god because obviously we don't have all the facts, despite your numerous postings.

Go solve this on your own. That's the only way it's going to happen.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Caved again...said she could keep the friendship. Our marriage didn't seem worth tossing away over one person online.


Really? Wasn't her affair "one person online"?

Are you sure that this "one person online" isn't connected to the other "person on line"?

Didn't you say much earlier that she spent a lot of time "online" which ended up in this fiasco?

So, it's okay now that she has a friend "on line" because, according to her, it's only "one person online"

Is one enough? Can she have "two friends online" tomorrow? Three friends online next week? Maybe get to play her game again for an hour. Maybe two? Do you see where I'm going with this?

There is a huge difference between fighting FOR your marriage and caving to keep the status quo. Do you understand the consequences of caving at this crucial point?

If your last comment holds any value at all, read it again and understand the meaning in accordance with your wife's wishes. Are you suggesting that she will "toss the marriage" if you don't let her have her on-line friend? Think about that. What does that tell you about how much SHE values the marriage against this on line friend. I can't tell you what to do. Nobody here can. But you might want to reconsider your decision in light of what it means to you in a fragile marriage. Good luck.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Still Lady

This forum is probably not the best place for you. I think you're being attacked unfairly. It seems if it were up to the posters in here you would be buried in the sand to your neck and stoned to death.

For what it's worth I believe you are remorseful for what happened. Understandably you are frightened for the future and may not be handling everything perfectly. Who does in these situations? It can't be easy admitting you were wrong about something only to have so many people pile on to try to make you feel even worse about it. 

My suggestion is to give it some time. Don't do anything rash. You husband has to either accept this...or not. If he decides he will not be able to trust you ever again than I think you're better off apart. Living in a situation where you have someone looking over your shoulder every minute, checking your online accounts, facebook etc isn't good for either of you.

Don't ever let anyone tell you you shouldn't turn to a family member for support. I would be crushed in one of my children felt they couldn't turn to me in a time of crisis. 

When I went through my divorce I talked to a lot of people. It was helpful to talk through it even if the vast majority of advice was bad. It wasn't the quality of advice that made me feel better it was that these friends and family cared enough to make the effort to help.

Take care,


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## StrangerThanFiction (Jul 19, 2011)

MaritimeGuy said:


> For what it's worth I believe you are remorseful for what happened. Understandably you are frightened for the future and *may not be handling everything perfectly.* Who does in these situations? It can't be easy admitting you were wrong about something only to have so many people pile on to try to make you feel even worse about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Take care,


In general, i disagree. Still Lady, by re-adding that friend back to facebook in a situation like this, is just throwing fuel on the fire. Isn't this "friend" the one who berated Still Knight as delusional when he stated his wife was having an affair, and the one Still Lady traveled with to meet up with a polyamorous couple from the game? (and lied about parts of that to Still Knight).

How can he not look over her shoulder at what she's doing, when she lies about doing one thing (not getting back into the game), then when he checks on her, she is back in the game? He's repeatedly caught her lying through this process, right?

However, I also think that Still Knight has no right to minimize his own affair as he appears to be doing. Kissing another woman at work? Sorry but I think that needs to be addressed too and not rug-swept if either of them wants this marriage to work.


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

StrangerThanFiction said:


> Isn't this "friend" the one who berated Still Knight as delusional when he stated his wife was having an affair, and the one Still Lady traveled with to meet up with a polyamorous couple from the game? (and lied about parts of that to Still Knight).


This friend had no idea what I was doing. I had told her that I felt like some boundaries had the potential to be crossed, and she tried her hardest to steer me in the other direction. I never told her when those boundaries were eventually crossed (so when Knight asked her, she was indignant). And she is not even remotely the same person I met up with a couple hours away. 

Also, MeritimeGuy. Thank you. Really, thank you.


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## StrangerThanFiction (Jul 19, 2011)

Still Lady said:


> This friend had no idea what I was doing. I had told her that I felt like some boundaries had the potential to be crossed, and she tried her hardest to steer me in the other direction. I never told her when those boundaries were eventually crossed (so when Knight asked her, she was indignant). And she is not even remotely the same person I met up with a couple hours away.
> 
> Also, MeritimeGuy. Thank you. Really, thank you.



And you told Still Knight that you were going to cut off all contact with people from the game? Or was he making that up?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Still Lady
> 
> This forum is probably not the best place for you. I think you're being attacked unfairly. It seems if it were up to the posters in here you would be buried in the sand to your neck and stoned to death.
> 
> ...


Maritime, you might need to check my thread for my account to see how things got to the point of us both needing to have transparency in stuff going forward. Neither of us should have anything to hide. We tried not being at all in each others business, and look where that got us. This happened twice now, things do need to change and steps need to be taken to rebuild all the lost trust on both sides.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

Hmmmm. Still Lady expresses gratitude for marittime guy's post while Still Knight is not so in favor of it..well at least parts of it.

I think if her BH wants her here then she should be here. Some posts might be hard to hear and some may be totally disrespectful, but she and he can glean what they need and leave the rest.

Still Lady..you are asking your BH to give you boundaries within reason..and I agree.
This is all fresh for you both. Compromise must be equally met on both sides before any of this can be resolved.

Still Knight seems to be more willing to bend than you are at the moment.
Has he denied you anything you have asked of him regarding his affair ?


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Still Knight

I understand where you're coming from. I was there at one time myself. You desperately want to regain the trust. The reality is no amount of checking up on her will ever give you a 100% guarantee. If she's so inclined she will find a way to do things behind your back. 

In the end you have to decide if you are prepared to trust again. It's a gamble...a huge gamble. In life the biggest payoffs involve taking the biggest risks. 

What would be a bigger tragedy? You choose not to take the gamble and lose a woman who made a mistake but loves you and wants to make things better. Or you choose to take the gamble and she does the same thing again down the road?


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Still Knight
> 
> I understand where you're coming from. I was there at one time myself. You desperately want to regain the trust. The reality is no amount of checking up on her will ever give you a 100% guarantee. If she's so inclined she will find a way to do things behind your back.
> 
> ...


Is there an obvious answer to this?? I fail to see it, cause I struggle with the exact same question. The same betrayal one more time will come close to destroy me, allthough I will be prepared.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Still Knight
> 
> I understand where you're coming from. I was there at one time myself. You desperately want to regain the trust. The reality is no amount of checking up on her will ever give you a 100% guarantee. If she's so inclined she will find a way to do things behind your back.
> 
> ...


Or you leave her in spite of all the things that attracted you to her, find someone else, and then realise....."There's no reason why this one couldn't betray me just like the last one did".

No, that warm feeling of total trust is gone forever, no matter what you do. Best to accept that since otherwise you could make some bad choices trying to reclaim it.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Is there an obvious answer to this?? I fail to see it, cause I struggle with the exact same question. The same betrayal one more time will come close to destroy me, allthough I will be prepared.


I wish I knew the right answer. I think the right answer is entirely dependent on the two people involved. 

In my case I kept pursuing evidence that my now ex had broken off contact with the 'other guy'. As they say in science though you can't prove a negative. So not finding any evidence of betrayal didn't prove it didn't happen. It just meant they got better at hiding it. 

I think you have to look into your own heart and decide what's right for you. My thoughts are don't do anything rash. Try to calm things down and let everything sink in. Once you've had some time to put things in perspective and you're calm figure out if you will ever be able to trust her again. If you can't it doesn't necessarily mean she's not trustworthy...it just means you're not able to trust her. Either way the relationship is over. 

If on the other hand you do believe her and are willing to take the chance there is no shame in that. It shows you're strong enough to risk getting hurt again. It's amazing what depths the human spirit can recover from.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Or you leave her in spite of all the things that attracted you to her, find someone else, and then realise....."There's no reason why this one couldn't betray me just like the last one did".
> 
> No, that warm feeling of total trust is gone forever, no matter what you do. Best to accept that since otherwise you could make some bad choices trying to reclaim it.


I still think it's an open question and hard to find the "right " answer.

I have thought hundreds of times myself, that leaving her wouldn't guarantee me from being hurt by another (new) partner.

But we could at least start with pure white sheets. Then again, there might be other flaws to find then... 

Tough call.


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