# H threats to kill her



## Moovers (Dec 24, 2013)

My friend just confessed that her H said that he is going to kill her, that that is what he does in army and is good at it. It was during fight but still is WAY too far. 

I told her to immediately tell his family, and look for a lawyer, they are married and they have a child together. She wants to know if she can keep her child, she is not a citizen and the child has dual citizenship. 

I am shocked and scared for her. 

Is it possible to get restraining order bc of this? Do you need witnesses?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Phone a local abused spouse group, preferably with her. They can give specific information for your area. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Yes she should be able to get a restraining order.

Call 911


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## Moovers (Dec 24, 2013)

Disenchanted said:


> Yes she should be able to get a restraining order.
> 
> Call 911


I told her to look for abuse in the family support group and to look for a lawyer. I don't know if she would call police, that could just set him off.

She is in an other state, I can't help other that advice, I told her to tell his family right now. Get out of the house if it is still hostile there at the moment, I don't know how the fight has progressed.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Moovers said:


> I told her to look for abuse in the family support group and to look for a lawyer. I don't know if she would call police, that could just set him off.
> 
> She is in an other state, I can't help other that advice, I told her to tell his family right now. Get out of the house if it is still hostile there at the moment, I don't know how the fight has progressed.



The fight is going on right now?
How is your friend contacting you?

He already is "set off".

You have very limited information. You are far away. You are not trained to weigh the likelihood of the possible outcomes from any action or inaction. You have no means of getting her to a safe place quickly, and from there she can get expert help.

Seems like far better odds for her if the police are called.


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## Moovers (Dec 24, 2013)

I am waiting to hear back from her. I really hope she is getting someone involved, I don't know her H and how dangerous he is. 

People say all kinds of things, but death threats are too much. It is unforgivable.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Moovers said:


> My friend just confessed that her H said that he is going to kill her, that that is what he does in army and is good at it. It was during fight but still is WAY too far.
> 
> I told her to immediately tell his family, and look for a lawyer, they are married and they have a child together. She wants to know if she can keep her child, she is not a citizen and the child has dual citizenship.
> 
> ...


She needs to call the police, and also his commanding officer. But from a place of safety, maybe even go to the police with her child. And to make sure she takes all of her documents with her: id, passport, health cards, child's birth certificate, marriage decree, bank cards, etc. Along with at least one photo of her husband. 

Yes, you can get a restraining order. But I wouldn't count on that to protect me. I would hide.

After she is safe she can get a lawyer. But that's not the first priority, unless she can find one specifically trained for domestic violence who has connections to safe houses, etc.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Moovers said:


> My friend just confessed that her H said that he is going to kill her, that that is what he does in army and is good at it. It was during fight but still is WAY too far.


I agree. The context does matter here though; there are a dozen different ways to say "I'll kill you" and have very different meanings. However if she feels threatened, then that's the only meaning that is important to her. 



> _I told her to immediately tell his family, and look for a lawyer, they are married and they have a child together. She wants to know if she can keep her child, she is not a citizen and the child has dual citizenship._


She can always "keep" the child, no more or no less than the father can. HOWEVER, it will probably be impossible for her to leave the country with the child, unless the father gives his consent.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> She needs to call the police, and also his commanding officer. But from a place of safety, maybe even go to the police with her child.


Someone can try to persuade me otherwise, but it looks like a waste of police time to make a report about heated remarks during an argument. After all, he could just deny it or make the same claim against her. If he had a history of violence, or beat her up or pulled a weapon on her, that would be a little different. 

I'm in the military myself. Contacting his commanding officer would set in motion a whole host of actions and would probably lead to a restraining order, which could complicate her life if she relies on her husband for daily transportation, etc. If he receives formal non-judicial punishment, it could lead to loss of rank or paying a fine, which would mean that the wife would receive less alimony/child support after a divorce. I'm not saying it's wrong to contact him, I'm just putting the information out there. She needs to speak to an attorney (she can also go to a military attorney) and weigh the options here. 



> _But that's not the first priority, unless she can find one specifically trained for domestic violence who has connections to safe houses, etc._


Safe houses? She's obviously safe right now because she contacted the OP. She's not exactly on the run from the mafia here. I don't think she needs the witness protection program quite yet.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Theseus said:


> She's obviously safe right now because she contacted the OP.




She is not obviously safe.



Being able to contact the OP does not tell us anything about her safety.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Someone can try to persuade me otherwise, but it looks like a waste of police time to make a report about heated remarks during an argument. After all, he could just deny it or make the same claim against her.





OP,



I hope that does not discourage you or your friend from seeking direct intervention by the police.



The amount of police time "wasted" in filing a report is miniscule compared to the potential for her abuse by him to escalate a "little" or to the extreme. The police can prioritize their time dealing directly with facts better than anyone on the internet can dealing with secondhand information and speculation


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## Moovers (Dec 24, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> OP,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Talked to her some more today, things are not getting better, there are no excuses to say such things and she is leaving. Apparently there are some deeper issues with his mental state, a lot to do with military. 

I told her to be careful and find a support network. I know this sounded dramatic and no background info to go on with. The bottom line, no matter what the argument is about, you don't threat to kill anyone. Unless you are a psycho.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Moovers said:


> Talked to her some more today, things are not getting better, there are no excuses to say such things and she is leaving. Apparently there are some deeper issues with his mental state, a lot to do with military.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







She needs the help of experts to do this as safely as possible.



You cannot help her like they can.



Look on-line and find a local abuse hotline for her to call, and insist best you can that she call it right then and there. If she is talking to you about it, then hopefully she can hang up and call someone in a better position to keep her safe.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Theseus said:


> Someone can try to persuade me otherwise, but it looks like a waste of police time to make a report about heated remarks during an argument. After all, he could just deny it or make the same claim against her. If he had a history of violence, or beat her up or pulled a weapon on her, that would be a little different.
> 
> I'm in the military myself. Contacting his commanding officer would set in motion a whole host of actions and would probably lead to a restraining order, which could complicate her life if she relies on her husband for daily transportation, etc. If he receives formal non-judicial punishment, it could lead to loss of rank or paying a fine, which would mean that the wife would receive less alimony/child support after a divorce. I'm not saying it's wrong to contact him, I'm just putting the information out there. She needs to speak to an attorney (she can also go to a military attorney) and weigh the options here.
> 
> ...


If it's not documented, it never happened.
I was military. I have experience with this. 
The CO does not have to set the ball in motion, the soldier in question can be counseled, forced into counseling, and monitored. A soldier who makes threats to his family is a problem for everyone. Additionally, we do not know about the background of this soldier. Whether he also has issues at work. There may be others who have concerns, but if people do not speak up, then they are creating an atmosphere where bigger problems can happen, and we all know that they do.

A threat to kill somebody is just that. It comes with consequences. A normal person who is right in the head would never tell a loved one even in the heat of an argument that they are going to kill them. 

What makes you think that this is not a problem?
By saying it's a waste of everyone's time, you are minimizing a very real issue that is affecting someone's right to feel secure in their own home. I think you are nuts with your perspective that making a threat to kill a spouse is something that should be dismissed as pure semantics. Language comes from the subconscious, particularly in the heat of an argument. The idea to kill his spouse is there, the words did not come from the creepy insane guy living down the street from him, and somehow not his own head. WTF?


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

Regardless if she needs a ride or not , or relies on him for anything she needs to contact his CO. Her life could be on the line here.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

My daughter's life has been at stake for a while now in an extremely similar situation. Sent private message as I don't want to include details that could identify anyone.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> What makes you think that this is not a problem?


I didn't say it was not a problem!



> _By saying it's a waste of everyone's time, you are minimizing a very real issue that is affecting someone's right to feel secure in their own home. _


I didn't say it was a waste of everyone's time. 



> _The idea to kill his spouse is there, the words did not come from the creepy insane guy living down the street from him, and somehow not his own head. WTF?_


Where the f**k did you get that from?? I sure as hell never said anything like that! 

I'm starting to see a pattern here. Homemaker_Numero_Uno, I *HIGHLY* recommend you look up the definition of "strawman". You want to have a schizophrenic argument with yourself on these boards, have at it. Just leave me out of it.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Theseus said:


> Someone can try to persuade me otherwise, but it looks like a waste of police time to make a report about heated remarks during an argument. After all, he could just deny it or make the same claim against her. If he had a history of violence, or beat her up or pulled a weapon on her, that would be a little different.
> 
> I'm in the military myself. Contacting his commanding officer would set in motion a whole host of actions and would probably lead to a restraining order, which could complicate her life if she relies on her husband for daily transportation, etc. If he receives formal non-judicial punishment, it could lead to loss of rank or paying a fine, which would mean that the wife would receive less alimony/child support after a divorce. I'm not saying it's wrong to contact him, I'm just putting the information out there. She needs to speak to an attorney (she can also go to a military attorney) and weigh the options here.
> 
> ...


"Waste of time." "Obviously safe." Could have reduced child support????? Big deal, at least she will be alive.

I work in military mental health services research and psych services. Primarily violence related. 

Your attitude is one that dismisses a death threat, and introduces a whole bunch of stuff that clouds the issue that a death threat has been made. Sure, it would be MORE CONVENIENT for everyone involved and maybe financially better if it's not actually carried out, but the fact remains that a DEATH THREAT was made by a military member upon his spouse. I don't think we need to discuss this further. 

Avoidance of paperwork and fear of further upsetting a military member or setback in rank that "would affect the family" is what leads to military member carrying out death threat, and then maybe involving police and harming himself or persons other than the family members involved.

EVERY MEMBER OF THE MILITARY is aware of what they are risking when they make death threats. This whole thing about reduced child support if he gets reported is part of what makes an environment where military members can get away with abuse. 

What, you don't think this woman is capable of providing for her kid? You don't think she would deserve state support or assistance if she could not? Ohhhhh, let's have her depend on the guy who made a death threat to her, even after she's got away from him. That's ridiculous. Setting her up to be dependent on this guy for support after getting away from him is just brilliant. It's better if she's not. Then she can truly be free. If she can get it, that's fine, but why the presumption that she should risk her life and HER KID'S LIFE, FOR WHICH SHE HAS RESPONSIBILITY, to get a couple hundred dollars more per month for her kid. Ridiculous. Absolutely.

It's obvious we still have a ways to go on improving non-violent culture amongst the misogynist and self-protecting military ranks.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Additionally, a soldier who threatens to harm any civilian, regardless of where the person lives or whether that person is related to him, is unfit for duty. 

Any commander who says differently should be relieved of his command. 

Anyone who protects such a soldier or knows of the threat and neglects to report it is also unfit for duty.

No exceptions.

Oh, but you say, it's fine, we are just Stateside, we are not in the field. Things will work out, it was just said during an argument...

Yah, and tomorrow N. Korea blows and everyone deploys and this guy is thinking about how he can't control his wife any more and gets pissed off and can't do his job. And he's got weapons and is authorized to use them.

I wouldn't want this troop in my unit and you shouldn't either. He belongs living on base in a dormitory under supervision while his wife has the residence, and in an office doing paperwork under the watchful eye of his superior officer. At the very least.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> "Waste of time." "Obviously safe." Could have reduced child support????? Big deal, at least she will be alive.


The only thing I said that might be a "waste of time" would be to contact the police given some caveats; if there was no history of violence, etc. The reason is because the husband could just deny it or claim his wife made a death threat as well. So yeah, it's "documented". It's documented on both sides. That solves a lot. 

If she *truly believes her life is in danger*, then she should go to the police and get a restraining order, that at least will do something. 

I have to also mention things like reduction of income because that could impact the wife as well. That isn't "clouding the issue". *It is an issue*. I have seen *TONS* of military couples that split up after some dispute where things were said in anger, and the wife made formal accusations against her husband (some legit, some not). Then later, she changes her mind, returns to him, but now their quality of life is lower and things are harder because they are dealing with legal bills, fines, and loss of military rank. That's not the exception, it's the NORM. So that's the reality - it doesn't matter whether you or I like it or not. Note that I advised her to speak to a military attorney so she is fully informed before making these decisions. But no, let's go YOUR way, and blindly run off to the cops and his commanding officer and trash everything without knowing what the consequences will be. That's idiotic. 



> _I work in military mental health services research and psych services. Primarily violence related. _


Now I see where the projection comes from. 



> _Your attitude is one that dismisses a death threat...
> 
> It's obvious we still have a ways to go on improving non-violent culture amongst the misogynist and self-protecting military ranks._


Bingo! I didn't dismiss any death threat. At all. But you don't have an convenient targets around for your anger on this issue, so you decide to choose me as a proxy. 

I get it. These things make you angry sometimes. That's human nature. But guess what. I didn't make the threat against this woman. So please direct your anger somewhere else. 



> _What, you don't think this woman is capable of providing for her kid? You don't think she would deserve state support or assistance if she could not? Ohhhhh, let's have her depend on the guy who made a death threat to her, even after she's got away from him. That's ridiculous. Setting her up to be dependent on this guy for support after getting away from him is just brilliant. It's better if she's not. Then she can truly be free._


Hey, you are preaching to the choir! I fully support women becoming independent from men after a divorce. But 99% of the time, the reality is otherwise. Moreover, if there are children, you can't escape the fact that the father still has parental rights.



> _to get a couple hundred dollars more per month for her kid. Ridiculous. Absolutely._


If you are wealthy, that might not mean much to you, but to plenty of lower enlisted families a couple hundred dollars a month makes a huge difference.


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## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

Side stepping a few things being said...here's some things the OP can inform the woman about:

First off, if the man is in the Army, she can contact her FRG Leader and they can move a CARE team into place to ensure she is taken care of (in the good sense of the phrase!). They usually know more about the ins and outs of the Army Chain of Command and also SHOULD know the resources available to help out spouses in need. Regardless of if it is stateside or not, the FRG is for the family, not the soldier.

For the Navy/Marines, you have Fleet and Family. I don't know how big the Wives' Clubs are within the Navy/Marines, but Fleet and Family is really the best go-to source for ensuring safety in situations like this. Add to that, they normally know when to and when not to report to the Chain of Command.

Aside from all of that, there is ALWAYS MilitaryOneSource. They have a 1(800) number and also have dedicated counselors available 24/7 for situations like this.

Add to that, at the bare minimum, a Military Protection Order (MPO) should be put into place by her...she can contact the Military Police for that...it really only requires a genuine fear of bodily harm from one of the parties involved. Just bear in mind, that you can have a MPO AND a civilian protection order in place at the same time.


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