# He wants to divorce in three years



## Pleaseineedhelp

Last Feb after 25 years together, two teens, and a huge arguement, my husband said he is tired of marriage, doesn't want the responsibiity of it, doesn't think he's ever been happy, thinks we married too young (mid 20s), thinks we married the wrong people, believes he has intimacy issues, doesn't find me attractive like he once did, doesn't want to have sex anymore, and laid out his plan to divorce after the youngest is out of high school. He said he loves me and wants to stay friends, live as roommates until the time comes, he will help me through the adjustments, he will provide for me after the divorce, and wants to stay close, taking trips together and be best friends after the divorce.

After a night of crying and pleading, I realized my role in this. I had been a difficult wife, I made demands on his time and attention, I was insulting, I controlled our sexlife, I was a stay at home mom, and did most of the childrearing, I was angry much of the time, I was unhappy too.

I don't want a divorce, I want a happy marriage. I have made tremendous progress over these past 10 months, changing back to my old self, no longer an agry woman, I don't ask much of him on the weekends. He travels for work and is away most Tues-weds returning Thursdays.

HE wanted the family to move from our home of 20 years to a new location,said he needed a change, so we did. He chose the house and I did most of the move not pressuring him at all. In these past 10 months, I never spoke of his announcement, just focused on being a better person. We moved, we are knder to each other, we go out on dates more, we seldom argue, we cuddle more, still no sex (over 12 months now), but the other weekend, I asked him about his intentions. He says they haven't changed. He didn't offer a time line, said he has no plans, but doesn't see us growing old together.

I see positive changes in our relationship and was hoping he would say he is happier and intends to stay. He hugs me sometimes for no reason, I just got a new hairstyle, which he has complimented me on twice in three days. He complimented me on my perfume yesterday. He's slowly letting me touch him more intimately, where once he would be curled up on the edge of the bed, he now lets me wrap myself around him, but nothing even resembling sexual contact. My other male friends say I'm attractive and can't imaging why my husband doesn't want to have sex with me.

I don't know what my next steps should be. How long can I expect this to last? He doesn't want to go to counseling. We can't really afford it anyway, insurance doesn't cover it. He said he's been thinking of divorce for years, and made his desicion last summer so 18 months ago. He said he hadn't intended to tell me, it just came out. He said he snapped from the stress of the argument.

I'm doing what I can to improve myself. I have found full time work, I have a new hairstyle, I go out with my friends more, I have gained control of my temper. I feel I am becoming a better person. He says he's noticed, and while he didn't like the fighting, now I seem like a stepford wife and he kind of misses the old me. I can't win.


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## Satya

Despite your improvements, which are good, once a man's opinion of you sours enough, it's pretty difficult for him to develop feelings of past love & attraction, no matter how good you look.

Case in point, my husband's ex wife used to literally screech at their children as a means of disciplining them. He said nothing could have been more successful at killing his love and attraction to her than hearing the Harpy Song. 

Rome wasn't built in a day. It could take him a long time to find you attractive again, or it could never happen. If I were you, I'd carry on as though you were divorcing. Don't hold out hope, just continue to improve yourself. Divorce, heal, make sure you never do those things in your future relationship(s). And I also suggest you stop living in limbo. If he means to divorce I would not encourage living like you're still married and affectionate. That will just make it more painful to rip off the bandaid when the divorce comes.


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## arbitrator

*Try the counseling route if at all possible!

A lot of churches do offer this service either through counselors or pastoral staff on a low to no cost basis on the contingency of how much that you can afford to pay!

Your relationship seems more than salvageable! Try your best to save it!*


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## farsidejunky

I hate to plant this seed, but it needs to be said.

Are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN there is no one else? Have you ruled it out?

Travel for work=opportunity.

Also, for someone who complained about a lack of intimacy, his lack of pursuit is troubling. Where/when is this need being met?


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you for thinking of me. I am reluctant to admit this, but I have any number of times and ways (some not so nicely) asked him if he was having an affair. Like so many others, our sex life dwindled over the years, and I would chalk it up to kids, exhaustion, stress, anger. I would ask if he was having an affair, if he was gay, why he wasn't interested. More recently but before his announcement I asked him to see a Dr. He tells me he simply isn't too interested in sex. Doesn't view porn like his guy friends, doesn't need it in his life. We have always been cuddly and we were sexual in our early marriage. I feel like I killed it with my ugly behavior. If I did, then I am hoping I can rekindle it, I just had hoped things would have turned farther around in 10 months. I am wondering if there is any hope or if I the best I have is this pre-divorce 3-year pergatory.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you. I will look into churches in our new area.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you Satya for your advice. This limbo is indeed painful, but I am using it to remind me of the change I needed to make.


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## Openminded

He will do as he will do so use this time to focus on you. That way you'll be prepared either way.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

This is perhaps the hardest part. He will do as he will do. What I would dearly like to know is What is the common outcome when a spouse declares an intention to divorce at a later date? I've never heard of a 3 year plan to divorce. I always imagined when someone wants to divorce, they make the announcement then set the wheels in motion. 

I'm trying to see the three years as an opportunity to turn things around, but some days/weeks it feels like a cruel sentence. 

I understand some advisors suggest being kind and letting time work, but rarely suggest how much time is needed. Some suggest laying down the law, which is what I feel got me here in the first place...


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## Thor

A low libido could be health related. Presuming he is in his mid 40's, that is a prime age to be having issues from low Testosterone. Improving his basic health can help a lot. There are medications to treat low-T but they aren't cheap. Some aren't too terribly costly. Improving diet, reducing alcohol and junk food, quitting tobacco, and moderating caffeine can all help. Exercise will build muscle mass, which increases T.

However that doesn't address the emotional side. My guess is you have emptied the Love Bank with love-busting behaviors over many years. Regaining love may take quite a while. I think some kind of professional help is needed. A good marriage therapist. Even just a few sessions over a few months might be enough to get you on the right path.


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## Thor

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> This is perhaps the hardest part. He will do as he will do. What I would dearly like to know is What is the common outcome when a spouse declares an intention to divorce at a later date? I've never heard of a 3 year plan to divorce. I always imagined when someone wants to divorce, they make the announcement then set the wheels in motion.


I had set a similar kind of timeline for divorce with my ex-W but never verbalized it. The issue was teen kids. That's a tough time on kids to get divorced. I always hoped my ex-W would make a turnaround during that time period, but in fact things only got worse after a short (3 months or so) when she made some effort. So my case was somewhat different than yours because you are making an effort.

I would suggest staying that course, but caution that you must be genuine in your behaviors. If he thinks you're just manipulating him then he won't respond well.

The advice I'd give would be to be positive and cheerful at home, but build your own life without him. Have your own activities. Build your own group of friends. The idea is to show you are a happy and engaged person. Invite your spouse into your life, don't build your life around them. With all those years of isolation, he may not feel comfortable with all the new attention. So I think maybe you should assess how much you might be "smothering" him, at least from his viewpoint considering how things were in years past. Can you give him good positive attention and good time together, but in a metered way? Have your own interests and activities, but make plenty of time to be with him. Maybe you already are doing this, idk. The idea here is for him to feel valued by you, but not that you are desperate for him. If you are a little bit scarce it might be easier for him to accept you back in.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Should I be encouraged that he isn't filing for divorce right away? Should I be encouraged that there is kindness and date nights etc? If the sex were back, it would feel like a good marriage. I was sad and a bit surprised to hear he still doesn't see us growing old togeher, but encouraged that he didn't give a timeline.


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## Emerging Buddhist

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Should I be encouraged that he isn't filing for divorce right away? Should I be encouraged that there is kindness and date nights etc? If the sex were back, it would feel like a good marriage. I was sad and a bit surprised to hear he still doesn't see us growing old togeher, but encouraged that he didn't give a timeline.


Focus on the things you can control, be aware of the things you cannot... timelines come and go, and the problem is that often the anxiety that comes with them tends to stay and park themselves well after the timelines goes.

Be encouraged that there is kindness and fairness because if that was missing, the vacuum is often filled with resentment and anger, disappointment unchecked.

Focus on the calm you want to be... remember that practiced positive leads to living positive, no matter what curve you find yourself leaning in to. That isn't to say hope isn't present... just keep handling it in it's proper place so that when disappointments come, you are able to flex it into the direction you need instead of losing grip and dropping it.

I hung onto my hope with both hands... it didn't come out in the direction I wanted but there was never a chance I lost it for myself, and that is where loving yourself more is your best investment.


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## Wazza

Thor said:


> The advice I'd give would be to be positive and cheerful at home, but build your own life without him. Have your own activities. Build your own group of friends. The idea is to show you are a happy and engaged person. Invite your spouse into your life, don't build your life around them.


Do this, but do it for you. 

If he leaves, you are powerless to stop him. What you can do is have a good life that is not dependent on him.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you Thor. Over our 25 years together we were joined at the hip. People used to caution us for being too codependent, and we would laugh and declare our love and enjoyment foor each other. Of course there was plenty of strife from both of us. I can only change myself. As I have done so, his bad behavior gets more exposed and I can see he is changing too. I was expecting him to say he wants the marriage now that it's stabilized. Perhaps 10 months isn't long enough. I was very unhappy, and my changes are for me and I feel much better about myself, so if that's all that comes of this pain, I guess it's something. 

I am trying to give him his space and keep my dignity. I am trying to be the change I want to see. I am hoping to grow old together. I feel I have made enough progress on myself that I can start to think about our relationship. Before I was just lazer focused on my own improvments because I was unhappy in my own skin and I think holding him kind of accountable. I joined and went to a gym, started having lunch with girlfriends, found a good job, got control of my temper, make more effort with make-up and clothes, stopped asking him to do chores on weekends, try to be understanding of the stress of his job in the week. I'm trying to be a great partner.

I like myself now again, and my friends are being very supportive, inviting me out etc. I am making a life without him but sometimes it feels like I'm digging my own grave. When we talked last, he was suprised I hadn't mentioned my new job and he was excited for me. I told him I was trying to be more independant as he asked. But I also told him it isn't as exciting because I know with every success I have it's one step closer for him to walk away. I'm sad just typing those words. I never believed I would be facing this with him.


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## Satya

It's possible he is waiting for a time that will be financially beneficial to divorce. Maybe at the present he would suffer too great a financial loss.

3 years sounds like a long limbo with no guarantee one way or the other.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you Wazza


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## Evinrude58

He had been detaching from you for years.
He has been wanting the divorce you for years.

I am of the opinion that in most cases, once a person loses their love for another, it's gone forever.

You need to detach. Enjoy your new job.
Find new friends and find out what gives you the greatest happiness in life.

I DO think it's possible that if you go out and build yourself a new life WITHOUT him, and he senses that you are gone and he's lost YOU, he may remember the feelings he once had.

However, he has betrayed your love in his heart without trying to fix it with you.

In all honesty, I think it best that you get yourself to a place of letting him go. Don't wait theee years. That's cruel and unusual punishment to you. I can't imagine your agony.

If he wants a divorce, divorce amicably NOW.

And find yourself a new love. Your past is the past.


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## sokillme

Personally I would not be surprised if he was having an affair. These things follow a pattern your husband has all the signs. If I were you I would speak to a lawyer just so you can put yourself in the best position if he decides to follow through with his plans. You can hope and work for the best but you should also plan for the worst.

Sorry.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you Satya. My friends and I have considered this. Is he so cold that he's waiting to not have to pay child support? He doesn't seem that calculating or cold...but he didn't seem like the kind to divorce either. I guess time will tell.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you Evinrude58. When he was explaining his desire to leave in my dispare, I did remind him that in the past when things were difficult and I felt at the end of my rope, I gave him the curtesy of asking for his help. I was dissapointed that he did not give our marriage the same respect and just went ahead and hardened his heart without giving me an opportunity to make things right.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you sokillme. I have been realizing that these things follow patterns which is why I am seeking help here. I was so hoping I would get multiple responses saying "If he's given three years, he's not really serious. Use the time to repair your marriage and be greatful for the wake-up call"

But I'm not seeing those messages.


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## Openminded

You're not seeing those messages because that thought is not very realistic. If he's waiting on your last child to finish high school then that's why he hasn't filed yet. 

Maybe he'll change his mind and maybe he won't but your job is to be prepared either way.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you Openminded. I have been in pain for the past 10 months, and I am not sure I can continue for three years if there is no hope of saving the marriage. But I don't want to force the end if it can be saved. I have been looking at Divorce Buster as well as Marriage Fitness tele bootcamp to see if there would be guidance for me and that's how I found this place.


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## Emerging Buddhist

Satya said:


> It's possible he is waiting for a time that will be financially beneficial to divorce. Maybe at the present he would suffer too great a financial loss.
> 
> 3 years sounds like a long limbo with no guarantee one way or the other.


Interesting how that happens... limbo whether known or unknown is still limbo we find out. :|


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## sandcastle

Sounds like he is serious but go ahead and be the ultimate doormat and give him 2 more years to get his ducks totally in a row, you working so the alimony is reduced and whatever other fun trick he can teach you on his way to dumping you.

Do you have any self respect?

This is painful to read.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

sandcastle, I am here to try to determine what my potential options and outcomes are. If there is no hope of reconciling my marriage, then of course I have little intention of suffering for 3 years. Either way I will need a job and friends, which I am cultivating. I am doing what I need to do for myself without thought of him or his alimony/child support payments. What you might see and a doormat behavior, I see as preparing for the worst while hoping for the best.


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## sandcastle

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> sandcastle, I am here to try to determine what my potential options and outcomes are. If there is no hope of reconciling my marriage, then of course I have little intention of suffering for 3 years. Either way I will need a job and friends, which I am cultivating. I am doing what I need to do for myself without thought of him or his alimony/child support payments. What you might see and a doormat behavior, I see as preparing for the worst while hoping for the best.


Best option when your spouse flat out tells you he is over you, no sex, moves you, tells you to get a job?


File for divorce.


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## Emerging Buddhist

@Pleaseineedhelp,

Fear of child support may be more present than you think... by staying he is placing that unmindfully in his pocket and holding your calm in the balance, it will not balance well.

My wife and I became debt-free on October 1st this year... this was our retirement year and we had counseling to prepare for it even. On October 3rd she announced many revelations including an adamancy for divorce. One of her revelations that same day was she only wanted half of a fairly substantial retirement pot (substantial for us). 

I have been in roommate status for two months and it will probably be three to four months by the time one of us has found a place and the divorce final about a month after that.

Three years like this would be horrible, I pressed her after a month that if this was her path, then let's free ourselves and put paperwork forward... she didn't hesitate to sign it, but money is a big attachment and although she still will not share anything past that day she asked for it, the one thing foremost was her concern over her fair share even though she was initially offered a lot more.

Attachment to money can drive decisions... (STBX)EB2 can easily live as roommates as it is her decision to disconnect all that was, for the one with hope, it is weeks of one-sided suffering. There are times when the suffering is more than I care for but healing is in motion while this is happening, I would not recommend extending it any further than necessary. :/

Don't wait to start healing because your mind will be busy sorting out a thousand other thoughts if this comes, talk to a counselor, get some ideas on what adjustment will mean, and start practicing them because your peace will depend on it.


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## EleGirl

@Pleaseineedhelp ;

You have used the last 18 months to make positive changes in yourself. That was/is the right thing to do. So now it's time to take the next step. There are some books that I think would help you figure this out. I have found that often, good self-help books are more helpful than hours of counseling. Even in counseling, the work needs to be done by you and within yourself. And the books can guide you at least as well as a counselor, if not better... see most counselors just listen to you talk and give you little to no input. A good self-help book teaches. All of the books that I list below were originally suggested to my by my counselors and did more for me than the counselors ever did.

So I'm going to recommend some good books that have helped me and lots of other people. I suggest you not let your husband see you reading the books. If he does, he might take any changes you make as just you playing games based on the books. Read them in the order posted below:


*Divorce Busting: A Step-by-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again * by Michele Weiner-Davis. When you read this book, pay special attention to the chapter on introducing change into an environment. You really need this chapter. Your husband is enjoying the changes you have made, but you do not really have his attention. He needs to know that if he leaves you, he will lose all the good that you bring to his life. 

Then after that read:

"Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs" {see the links in my signature block below}. Do the work that they say to do. Then at some point, ask him to read the books with you and to do the work that they say to do with you. Ask him to give the marriage one last try, a real try.

I also suggest that you read at least the first page or two of this thread: *The Sex Starved Wife*. I hope it will give you more insights. Plus it has more suggested reading to address specifically the lack of sex in your marriage.


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## EleGirl

@Pleaseineedhelp

In addition, I suggest that you do the work and reading that I posted above. And if after all that your husband is not solidly into marital recovery with you, that you file for divorce.

It is beyond ridiculous that he expects you to live in this unloving limbo just because it's his plan. What he's doing is waiting until your children are old enough that he does not have to pay any child support.

Are you completely aware of your finances? Do you have 100% visibility into and access? I ask because often times people will use a time period like this to move money out of saving, 401K's and investments to hid it during a divorce. I suggest that you start copying every financial record you can find. Get a place to store them... perhaps rent a storage room .. I rented a 5x5 room in a climate control storage place during my divorce for this very reason. I'm glad I did because I discovered that my husband was hiding money and important financial papers started to disappear. thank goodness that I took this step, because I had proof of accounts that he was hiding.

Your husband is not changing his attitude about your marriage because he does not have to. He now has the upper hand and is manipulating you with his threat of divorce. I'm not saying that you should start a war. But instead that you need to turn the tides so that he knows that you are not going to put up with his threats of divorce and that you too have power in this relationship. He is being a bit of a bully here taking advantage of all that you bring to the relationship and yet still telling you that he's going to divorce you. You really do need to let him know that you will no longer put up with his threats of leaving and that you will be divorcing him if he does not start putting effort into your relationship. (read the books first though).

Also, I agree with the others who suggested that he is most likely having an affair. This is how a person behaves when they are having an affair. You need to do some snooping. Check his phone bills. Does he keep his phone password protected or otherwise not let you see it? Is he still working away from home a lot?


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## VibrantWings

That part you posted about wanting to "remain best friends" and refuses to have sex with you.
He loves you as a friend? He wants to remain close for the children?

Hard part I'm having with all this is the no-sex part. What man does that? I've been in relationships where the guy would have NO ISSUE to screw me and then separate himself from me/the relationship. I had a past bf screw me then sit up and tell me how he loved someone else. 

Sure he may just be different than what I've known....but sexless?

That no sex thing...he's "being faithful" to someone (or something?) else. I would bet on it. 

Have you tried to figure out in another way what's going on with him since he ain't telling? Do you want to know? It just seems too..."odd" to me. I think you need to try looking into what's happening in his life when he's not with you or the children. 

He's trying very hard for an amicable split- I like those, too. But there's more to his story. 

Just my two cents.....


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## EleGirl

VibrantWings said:


> That part you posted about wanting to "remain best friends" and refuses to have sex with you.
> He loves you as a friend? He wants to remain close for the children?
> 
> Hard part I'm having with all this is the no-sex part. *What man does that?* I've been in relationships where the guy would have NO ISSUE to screw me and then separate himself from me/the relationship. I had a past bf screw me then sit up and tell me how he loved someone else.
> 
> Sure he may just be different than what I've known....but sexless?
> 
> That no sex thing...he's "being faithful" to someone (or something?) else. I would bet on it.
> 
> Have you tried to figure out in another way what's going on with him since he ain't telling? Do you want to know? It just seems too..."odd" to me. I think you need to try looking into what's happening in his life when he's not with you or the children.
> 
> He's trying very hard for an amicable split- I like those, too. But there's more to his story.
> 
> Just my two cents.....


Actually a fair number of men do that. About as many men choose to make their marriage sexless as women do. Have you seen this thread: The Sex Starved Wife? I started it to support women like the OP whose husband has made this choice. We have many women come to TAM who are dealing with this issue.

From what I've read, most people who chose to make their marriage sexless do it as a passive aggressive way to punish their spouse for real or imagined issues.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank all of you for your input! I am so grateful for the things to think about. Sex has been lacking for years, but I didn't think too much about it because he was home all the time, had his own home business, and there was a lot of stress, fighting, entertaining friends, being tired, and of course, always tomorrrow!

I have wondered if he is gay, an affair, impotent, I have considered everything. I have read sexless marriages are more common than people think, so as with everything, I go back and forth. Seems many women have the same thoughts when trying to understand.

Again, I have been so focussed on myself I haven't spent much time asking him for clarity on why he wants a diivorce in 3 years. I accept that I played a role, but it takes two.

I am at the stage now where it's time to consider my next steps. I don't enjoy the insecurity of all of this. That any moment he could come home and say it's over. I've been racing to be ready for that possibiity while still trying to salvage the family and not damage things further.


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## oldshirt

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Should I be encouraged that he isn't filing for divorce right away? Should I be encouraged that there is kindness and date nights etc? If the sex were back, it would feel like a good marriage. I was sad and a bit surprised to hear he still doesn't see us growing old togeher, but encouraged that he didn't give a timeline.


I could not read this thread any longer and had to respond to this post immediately. 

You and many of the other posters are looking at this all wrong and it is time for some tough love and a major wake up call. 

He has stated up front his dissatisfaction and laid out an itemized account of his rationale for divorce and has announced his intention to leave you following the youngest getting done with school. 

Why are you still in this so called "marriage" doing the "Pick Me! Dance?"

Why haven't you consulted divorce attorneys and began preparing your legal case and protecting your share of the marital assets? Why aren't you packing your stuff? Why haven't you found a place to live for you and your children? Why aren't you getting your legal, financial and personal affairs in order? Why aren't you making plans for your future as a divorced woman? 

And the most important question is - *Why are you allowing yourself to be used as "Wife Appliance" and Babysitter until your ultimate discard at a specified date and time?*

It's time to wake up Sista'. You are being used and chumped and taken for a ride here. 

You are being kept around to cook and clean and keep the kids out of his hair and manage the school calendar and haul the kids to their appointments by a man who has stated does not love you, is not attracted to you, does not provide you a love and sex life, does not want to grow old and visit grandchildren with you and has stated up front his plan to discard you at the designated time and date. 

Why are you allowing this?

Why aren't you filing yourself now and beginning your new life today, rather than waiting for the designated discard date?

I am sorry this is happening to you and my heart breaks for you, but you need to grow up, face reality and take responsibility for your own future and your own well being.


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## oldshirt

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> I was so hoping I would get multiple responses saying "If he's given three years, he's not really serious. Use the time to repair your marriage and be greatful for the wake-up call"
> .


Let me explain this a little further. 

It's not that he is not serious. There is not one single reason to not believe that he is dead serious and that he has completely laid out his intentions and his rationale. 

IMHO he has given you fair warning and informed consent. You now no longer have any just claim of any kind of surprise attack or any excuse for not having your legal, financial and personal affairs in order. You have been given your walking papers and your expiration date. 

This was your pink slip announcing the date you will be downsized. 

What he is doing here is keeping you around for cooking his meals, washing his clothes, keeping the kid's calendar and getting them to their appointments and activities and keeping them out of his hair. He is also avoiding paying child support and as he has given you THREE YEARS of notice, he can also use that as ammunition in court against paying you spousal support. 

You are currently being used as a Wife Appliance and Babysitter and Maid by a man who does not love you, want to grow old with you, have a love or sex life with you and has been both talking the talk as well as walking the walk. 

He is not having second thoughts. This is very cold and calculating and part of a master plan. He does not love you in the traditional sense of love in marriage. You have use to him and he may even have some kind of affection for you the way a man may feel a sense of affection towards a sturdy work horse on the farm or a good hunting dog. But he has no deep yearning love or any kind of sexual attraction or desire for you. It all makes perfect sense as it has been presented. 

(it also makes perfect sense that there is some kind of other woman involved, but that will be a separate post) 

There is nothing to be "fixed" or repaired here for there is no malfunction. He simply no longer loves you, wants a home and family with your or wants to grow old with you. I am very sorry. 

Let's go back to the pink slip analogy here. You have been given a pink slip on your marriage and given the date at which time you will be downsized. 

You choice now is to continue to be the dutiful employee that shows up every day on time and puts in an exemplary day's work and then cleans out her desk and walks out with the severance check on your last day and then begins the task of seeking new employment and hoping to find a job before the severance check runs out. 

Or you can accept that you will soon be out of a job and blowing the dust off of your resume and hitting the streets seeking a new job now while you are still getting a check and insurance plan from your current job. 

I really don't care which strategy you employ as long as you are realistic and accept the reality that the marriage that you thought you had and thought you were going to have does not exist. And that you take responsibility for your own future and your own well being and not allow yourself to be used and exploited and find yourself out on the street with no means of taking care of yourself when your discard comes.


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## oldshirt

My own humble opinion is that your husband has given you fair notice and that he means what he says and has said what he means. There is no reason to think otherwise here. 

My personal opinion is that any time, energy and money spent on trying to "save the marriage" will be for not and will be time, energy and money that will not be available for moving forward with your own life. 

I believe that if you set your sights on moving on with your own life, you will have greater options and greater opportunities and a better lifestyle down the road for yourself. 

A part of me does understand that you do not want to divorce and that if you accept and take actions to protect yourself and your assets that that might make him speed up the process and file on you now. I get that and I understand that concern. 

However the gauntlet has already been laid down and there are things in motion already that probably cannot be undone. I believe in your husband's sincerity and I believe it to be irresponsible and reckless of you to not take it seriously and take appropriate action for yourself. 

*HE*is the one that has announced the end of your marriage. His actions and his words (while crappy and jerkish) are in congruence with each other. He is the one calling for the dissolution of your marriage. There for you are simply a respondent and are taking appropriate measures to protect yourself and prepare for the stated outcome. 

You are not responsible for the death of and dissolution of your marriage. He is. You are simply responding in a manner to assure your own survival and well being. 

It's ok for you to take appropriate action now and sleep at night knowing that you did not do this.


----------



## oldshirt

Now let me discuss the other woman(s). 

He is not seeing a younger, prettier, single woman and he is not going to marry her and start another family with her on the day after your divorce decree is final. 

If that was the case he would have simply come home, handed you papers, given you a date to exit the house and would be pushing this through as quickly as possible. 

The woman(s) he is seeing now is likely close in age, is no more pretty or thinner or nicer than you and she could very well be currently married and have minor children as well. 

There relationship is primarily sexual and maybe somewhat companionate, but it is not a deep, burning love or anyone that he feels is his true soulmate or whatever. 

There is also a possibility that it is not one singular person but perhaps a small harem of FWBs that are either married or are somewhat desperate single, middle aged women that are not marriage material and those relationships are also primarily sexual in nature.

And there is also a very real possibility that he is involved with some kind of escort(s) or prostitute(s). 

If you really have concerns about him being gay, simply substitute the pronoun "he" for anywhere I may have said 'she.'

But he is getting it somewhere else it's just that that person is not marriage and family material and that person(s) is not pressuring him to leave immediately. 

If you were to search phone records, hack his computers, hack into his email/social media etc or a hire a PI to dig into his affairs (no pun intended) you will find another person(s)

It may not be all hot and heavy and he truly may not be leaving you "for" anyone else. 

I think he simply wants to be on his own and not have to deal with kids and not have to answer to anyone and wants to do his own thing on his own terms. 

You are just too useful to him at the moment to kick you out now. 

It's up to you whether you want to stay and be that Wife Appliance for him for the next three years or whether you want to start your new life now.


----------



## Pleaseineedhelp

OldShirt, Thank you. I imagine it's difficult to write that kind of stuff. It's difficult to read. But please be assured I have considered the reality you so clearly paint. 

THis is how I have been thinking of it:

My marriage is likely over, but I have some time to try and repair it. I promised for better or worse.

In the meantime I have fostered new friendships and redefined some old ones.
I will be starting a job in December that should offer some growth and new career opportunities.
I am open to new relationships, although I am not pursuing anything ie no tinder accts.
He travels on business so most of the week I am alone in a beautiful home. If I force the inevitable divorce I will be alone in most likely an apartment. I won't be having any sex, beautiful single friends I have asked haven't has sex in 3 years! I won't have access to his full income and all of the creature comforts it brings, I won't have a built-in weekend handy man to fix my car etc. I will be disrupting the lives of my children. Instead of having a stable home, they will shift between two locations and become part of this mess, at a time when they are already dealing with the stress of high school and anticipating college and their own lives.

This using business goes both ways. It is in my best interest to stay and make the best of it for awhile until I am able to move forward on my terms. IN THE MEAN TIME...it would be best for everyone if this were some kind of midlife phase that will pass now that the fighting has ended and peace has come to the family.

I see that my hopes are not the experience of the kind people on this forum, which was the kind of information I was after with my post. It is clearly not what I wanted to hear, but I am a big girl and I can handle not getting what I want.

I will be fine. Dispite the fact that I can't spell, I am a strong, intellegent, educated, and accomplished woman. I was having a great life when we met and I will continue to have a great life whoever comes with me. I have no shortage of people who enjoy my company and find me attractive.

I will be fine.


----------



## entropy4hunt

Two things:

1) You deserve to know exactly why he doesn't want to be with you, and what he wants to do with his life after divorce
2) Why the hell 3 years? why not now? why not next year? this is B.S. if he is so sure if getting a divorce, you should then just do it. Don't be that "wife". Don't waste 3 years of your life.


----------



## oldshirt

Responses in bold below. 





entropy4hunt said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1) You deserve to know exactly why he doesn't want to be with you,
> 
> *She spelled that out in her opening post.*
> 
> 
> and what he wants to do with his life after divorce
> 
> *His post-divorce life is none of her business nor is her post-divorce life any of his. That is what a divorce is. Unless it is directly related to the kids, their post-divorce life is their own*
> 
> 
> 
> 2) Why the hell 3 years?
> 
> *Their youngest finishes school in 3 years. They each enjoy the creature comforts that the other brings. *
> 
> 
> why not now? why not next year?
> 
> *see above.*
> 
> 
> this is B.S. if he is so sure if getting a divorce, you should then just do it. Don't be that "wife". Don't waste 3 years of your life.
> 
> *I agree with you personally. In three years she can be in a kick-ass career, have a great new place and could possibly even be remarried. But it's their choice*


----------



## oldshirt

Some thoughts on your points in bold below. 




Pleaseineedhelp said:


> My marriage is likely over, but I have some time to try and repair it. I promised for better or worse.
> 
> *That is commendable but you also have to be realistic and responsible. IMHO "for better or worse" counts in hard times when both people want the marriage to work and are willing to do the heavy lifting to save it. But it only takes one person to break the marital contract. *
> 
> 
> 
> In the meantime I have fostered new friendships and redefined some old ones.
> 
> *That is good. *
> 
> 
> 
> I will be starting a job in December that should offer some growth and new career opportunities.
> 
> *That is good as well.*
> 
> 
> I am open to new relationships, although I am not pursuing anything ie no tinder accts.
> 
> *That is also a good mindset. Keep in mind that in three years, you could not only be actively dating, but you could be in a healthy relationship with someone that wants to be with you. It's even in the realm of possibility you could be remarried.
> 
> ......or you could still be doing the "Pick Me! Dance" for someone that has intentions of leaving.
> 
> Your choice either way. *
> 
> 
> He travels on business so most of the week I am alone in a beautiful home. If I force the inevitable divorce I will be alone in most likely an apartment.
> 
> 
> *The fact that a building means more to you and apparently to your husband as well, than a loving and committed marriage is telling. *
> 
> 
> I won't be having any sex, beautiful single friends I have asked haven't has sex in 3 years!
> 
> *That is one of the sillier things I have read in awhile. If these beautiful friends have vaginas and don't have rip-roaring cases of BO and bad breath, they could be having sex any time they want. So can you. *
> 
> 
> 
> I won't have access to his full income and all of the creature comforts it brings, I won't have a built-in weekend handy man to fix my car etc.
> 
> *Again this is telling. If this is what marriage means to you.....well then.............. I guess I will just leave it at that.
> 
> 
> I do see your point though. If you are willing to be used as a Wife Appliance until your usefulness to him is complete so you can have access to his gravy train then there you are. *
> 
> 
> 
> I will be disrupting the lives of my children. Instead of having a stable home, they will shift between two locations and become part of this mess, at a time when they are already dealing with the stress of high school and anticipating college and their own lives.
> 
> *As I said in my earlier post, HE is the one that wants to divorce. That is on him. You are the one that has to figure out what your course of action will be with that knowledge. If you are OK maintaining status quo, then so be it. However do not use kids as an excuse. Kids are not harmed by two loving, supportive parents who are involved in their lives that happen to live in separate houses. They are harmed by abuse, neglect, abandonment, chemical dependency and living in an environment of chronic hostility.
> Blaming children for your choice to remain in a toxic and dysfunctional environment is an unfair burden to place on them. *
> 
> 
> This using business goes both ways.
> 
> *I am beginning to see that*
> 
> 
> 
> It is in my best interest to stay and make the best of it for awhile until I am able to move forward on my terms.
> 
> *If you were seeing attorneys and preparing your legal and financial affairs and making strategies and plans for divorcing and moving on, I would agree with that assertion. Have you been doing those things though?*
> 
> 
> 
> IN THE MEAN TIME...it would be best for everyone if this were some kind of midlife phase that will pass now that the fighting has ended and peace has come to the family.
> 
> *That would be best. But as a responsible adult and mother of minor children, you need to be prepared for any eventuality. *
> 
> 
> 
> I see that my hopes are not the experience of the kind people on this forum, which was the kind of information I was after with my post. It is clearly not what I wanted to hear, but I am a big girl and I can handle not getting what I want.
> 
> *One of the benefits of being a disinterested 3rd party, is we can talk in realities and hopes or wishes. *
> 
> I will be fine. Dispite the fact that I can't spell, I am a strong, intellegent, educated, and accomplished woman. I was having a great life when we met and I will continue to have a great life whoever comes with me. I have no shortage of people who enjoy my company and find me attractive.
> 
> *That is also a good mindset to have as long as you are taking positive steps to achieve that and not relying on hopes and wishes to get you to that point. *
> 
> I will be fine.
> 
> *You can be fine assuming you to take the prudent steps to be fine. *


----------



## Bonkers

He's given you a great present for the holidays- his intent, and time.

Now you can plan your exit strategy- well in advance, and with the help of a skilled attorney.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Good God people! I've never gotten a divorce nor have I seen one play out. I am new at this and came here for advice so I can determine my next steps. 

I don't feel the need to apologize for taking my time and building a strategy for my best outcome. I also don't believe it's weak for me to try to keep my marriage. We have spent a lifetime together and I love him. Of course I hope his talk of divorce was just another escallation in a difficult winter, but if he truly doesn't want me, I am reaching a place of acceptance.

The response from this thread has given me the information I was looking for. I have no intention of staying in a loveless marriage for three years, but I also have no intention of exiting hastily and carelessly. I am in my mid fifty's with less time than most to recover from a mistake.

I do hope to be kicking it in my new career and enjoying the company of charming men in three years, but for now I am in some mud and seeking advice of those who have gone before me on the best way out.


----------



## Taxman

Something isn't adding up. Ok, there may be some anger, but a normal man with a very sub normal libido. I believe that he needs at the least a full physical. He should be tested for testosterone levels. You say you are in your 40's? This needs further investigation.


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## oldshirt

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Last Feb after 25 years together, two teens, and a huge arguement, my husband said he is tired of marriage,ind of misses the old me.


What was this huge argument about?


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Our oldest teen had been sick with a high fever all week, Valentines week. It was like 104, the kind of fever I was getting up every two hours to check on her. 2 trips to the Drs. He wanted to stay out of town to enjoy the city with his guy friend. They had tickets to a show that had been planned in advance. I didn't handle it well. I thought he should want to come home after the friday night show. He tried to make me tell him to come home. It just goes down from there. I can't remember now if he came home late Saturday night or Sunday morning. I know we met friends Sunday afternoon, it was a warm sunny day and we all went to a beer garden. Sunday night when we went to bed, he told me his plans.


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## WorkingOnMe

His list of complaints make you sound like my wife. How often do you compliment him or tell him you appreciate him? And I don’t mean saying those pants look nice. That’s complementing his pants, not him. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pleaseineedhelp

OK, I admit to my shortcomings. I could have handled things better. 

I would hope you are married to a woman like me! I do compliment him. I love him. We have been through a lifetime of experiences. I supported him when he lost his job, and I encouraged him to follow his passion and start his own business. I stayed by his side when he threw all of our savings and retirement, all of it but $500, into that business. I offered to tend to his business, while he took employment. I continued to carry his business, the house, and children while he ignored it all and pursued his career. If I have been an angry wife for these past 3 years, I think I might find one or two who would understand.

Things are finally turning around for us. It is a bitter pill to swallow that now that we are finally financially recovering, the children are all but grown, and we are on solid ground, that he is tired of the responsibiites of married life and wants his freedom.


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## MartinBeck

He doesn’t want to have sex with you or repair the marriage because he resents you and blames your past treatment of him for his unhappiness during the marriage. Your past actions to him justify (in his mind) his leaving and the pain you caused him has made you terribly unattractive to him. 

He doesn’t want to have sex with you because he’s afraid that him choosing to have sex with you will mean that “you’ve won”.
He no longer loves you enough or is attracted to you enough to want to go back to a marriage where he wants sex, you treat him badly, he puts up with it. 
He knows that sex with you means that he has lost his self respect and a compromise he can no longer accept.

He will not have sex with you because he knows that means his life with you is going back into your old routines. He can no longer accept the trade off of sex for putting up with the (real or imagined) bad behavior from you.

As for getting it elsewhere, he may have had a few causal flings if opportunity has presented himself, or maybe has used an escort. There is probably not “another woman” that he’s in any kind of serious relationship with.


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## EleGirl

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Good God people! I've never gotten a divorce nor have I seen one play out. I am new at this and came here for advice so I can determine my next steps.
> 
> I don't feel the need to apologize for taking my time and building a strategy for my best outcome. I also don't believe it's weak for me to try to keep my marriage. We have spent a lifetime together and I love him. Of course I hope his talk of divorce was just another escallation in a difficult winter, but if he truly doesn't want me, I am reaching a place of acceptance.
> 
> The response from this thread has given me the information I was looking for. I have no intention of staying in a loveless marriage for three years, but I also have no intention of exiting hastily and carelessly. I am in my mid fifty's with less time than most to recover from a mistake.
> 
> I do hope to be kicking it in my new career and enjoying the company of charming men in three years, but for now I am in some mud and seeking advice of those who have gone before me on the best way out.


You need to remember that this is an open forum and so you will get a lot of people posting and each one will give their point of view based on what you posted. Of course we don't know the entire story and can only go by what you share. In your initial post you made it sound like you have been an angry, mean spirited, difficult wife since the start of your marriage. Since you did not share your good points, how would anyone know these things? So the more you post, the more people will learn about your situation and the better input you can get.

Also, keep in mind that most of the people who post on TAM are going through situations similar to yours, and some far worse, so some get triggered by posts that are too similar to their own.

What you need to do it take the input that you feel fits your situation and just ignore the rest.


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## Satya

Are you very sure that he was out with a * guy* friend that night? Granted, he may not have felt the fever warranted him to come home. Did he understand the severity? Were you in great need of his help? Did you express that to him?

Part of me understands him not wanting to leave a fun night. Part of me questions why he couldn't be more willing to come home, unless perhaps there was a sufficient reason, from his end, to keep him out. 

As @EleGirl said, we can only have your side of the story. It wasn't an unreasonable request of you IMO, but it's all in the delivery. A fever can definitely lead to a seizure if bad enough. How did you ask him? Did you get angry?

It seems that it was the straw that broke the camels back, meaning that he had been planning in his head for a while for things to change and that event gave him the last push he needed to give you notice.


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## Blondilocks

Okay, I'll be the one to recommend placing a voice activated recorder (VAR) under the front seat of his car. It may give you more information with which to work. If you find the idea suitable, we can ask some knowledgeable people on this site to help you with that.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Yes Satya, that is what he said. It was the final straw in a three year battle that saw us both as combatants. In the aftermath of his announcement, I focused on my own behavior. Stepping away from it in my head, I could see that our arguments went beyond where they needed to go.

What I think I'm dealing with is a man who suffered a number of set-backs, that I didn't handle properly. He became like a gambler and spent all of our money on trying to get his business up and running, I was furious. I offered to help keep his business alive while he went back to employement, but he stopped addressing his business needs, blaming me for not knowing how to handle things, I was defensive and angry at being held responsible for a business I am not qualified to run. My husband was pulling farther and farther away and I was getting angrier and angrier. We would fight over every detail of every interaction. Looking back, it was childish and assinine. And his libido has been something we've known about and discussed since the beginning.

While we both have dirty hands in the matter, I can only control my actions. I didn't actually want to be married to him in that way either. I am now trying to be the wife I want to be. I don't see my behavior as a pick me dance. I see it as modeling how our marriage should be. 

I no longer get irritated if he doesn't take out the garbage, because I realize if he leaves, I'm taking the garbage out anyway. If he leaves, I'm changing the lightbulbs anyway. If he leaves, I'm cleaning out the garage anyway, and on and on. He has a huge job with a global corporation, and I have been trying to respect and understand the pressures he faces in the week, and he probably wants and needs a break over the weekends, not come home to a list of chores.

I came to this forum because I was dissapointed to hear his plans haven't really changed over these past 10 months that I have been executing the newer improved me. It is painful to know he doesn't want to keep going with me. I do not want to be his doormat, but I don't want to give in too soon. It took a few years to reach this point, perhaps I need to give it more time..I don't know...so I came here to see what others have learned.

I appreciate everyone who has weighed in for me. It is a raw time for most of us, and these are painful revelations to put out there. But I have experienced a number of life's slings and arrows, and I know I come out OK, and I will survive this too. I just want to make sure I can know I have done absolutely everything I can to save this family. 

That voice recorder idea is incredibly tempting...but if he wants to leave, what difference does it make why? Seems like it could just add more pain to an already painful time.


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## MJJEAN

Iif you're doing things around the house because you'd have to do those things anyway if he leaves, STOP. If he were living on his own or with a roommate he'd be expected to do his share of household tasks, take care of his own laundry, meals, dr. appointments, etc. If he wants out, let him live like a single man with no partner to swoop in and take care of what he was too tired, busy, or whatever, to do himself. Let him see what it's like to be single. No longer be his support. Maybe he'll develop appreciation.


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## farsidejunky

MJJEAN said:


> Iif you're doing things around the house because you'd have to do those things anyway if he leaves, STOP. If he were living on his own or with a roommate he'd be expected to do his share of household tasks, take care of his own laundry, meals, dr. appointments, etc. If he wants out, let him live like a single man with no partner to swoop in and take care of what he was too tired, busy, or whatever, to do himself. Let him see what it's like to be single. No longer be his support. Maybe he'll develop appreciation.


This.

Look, OP, the deeper you go down the rabbit hole, the more concerned about HIS behavior I become. He sounds passive-aggressive and immature.

I understand the fear of the unknown, but take a long, hard, unvarnished (if possible) look to determine if this SHOULD be saved.

Back to the quoted post. Moving forward, you should be loving, calm, and polite as you stop doing the things around the house that are his to do. Stop making him meals. Stop doing his laundry. Let him feel the consequences as well. Right now, you are the only one bearing them as you spoil him with love.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Satya said:


> Are you very sure that he was out with a * guy* friend that night?


Maybe it was a guy friend though. She's said that she's questioned his sexuality before, so maybe he's hiding in the closet and is waiting until the kids are done with high school before coming out. It wouldn't be the first that I've heard of this happening.


----------



## MJJEAN

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> That voice recorder idea is incredibly tempting...but if he wants to leave, what difference does it make why? Seems like it could just add more pain to an already painful time.





tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Maybe it was a guy friend though. She's said that she's questioned his sexuality before, so maybe he's hiding in the closet and is waiting until the kids are done with high school before coming out. It wouldn't be the first that I've heard of this happening.


Well, if you have questioned his sexuality, and he IS actually bisexual or homosexual and involved with someone else (man or woman), at least you'd know A) why the marriage couldn't be saved and B) that it wasn't you, it was him.


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## Spitfire

If you were controlling, insulting and withheld sex, I can tell you he was done many years ago. No amount of change now will erase what’s been done in the past. He slipped up when he told you his intentions and added the “being best friends “ and “vacationing together “ to ease the pain. I doubt he’s cheating because the last thing he wants is to go through all of this again. It’s not worth the risk. It’s best for you to continue improving yourself for you.


----------



## Pleaseineedhelp

We are both flawed, no doubt about it. He is definately passive agressive and I am direct and in your face. We had spiraled down into a marriage no one would want. In the first hours and days after his big reveal, I first decided if I wanted to let go too. I decided we were worth the effort to regain our original loving relationship. It seemed the storms of life : teen years, job changes, financial troubles, we had been weathering are clearing, and we could be facing a another time for just us. 

My first thought was to end the fighting and the best way I knew to do that was for me to put down my weapons. It took a few days but he also stopped baiting me. From that point, I have been trying to model what a good marriage looks like. That I can indeed stop nagging. 

It has been much much slower than I expected but I am seeing subtle changes. We moved out of the little town we lived in to a bigger city (his doing). We are going out more. We have been to more movies (one of my favorite pre-marriage activities) in the past 4 months than we have been in our 25 years together. We sometimes meet for drinks before he arrives home from his travels. Often dinner out one weekend night. It's a lifestyle we used to enjoy but put on hold while we raised our kids in a small town.

He certainly let me carry the weight for longer than I expected, but I did it to show I can do it. I don't actually need him, I want him. His position has always been He makes the money, I am a stay at home wife and should be taking care of everything else. But as I took on more of the responsibiities of our lives willingly the difference between us was more apparent, and he is beginning to slowly pick-up his share. He recently verbalized that he had stopped helping me parent and I can see him interacting more with our girls. I am staying silent on any critisim or nagging for him to do anything.

For these reasons I felt ready to ask him the other weekend what his intentions are and clearly his response was dissapointing. So I find myself entering the next phase of my divorce plan. Do I stay the course because I do see change or do I beging a stronger level of disengaging myself? I don't intend to make any big changes until after the holidays, but I'm a planner, so this is my style, plus I'm about to start a full time careeer job, so that itself will bring change in what I do around here.

Again I appreciate everyone's input more than you can know. Even talking about it here somehow removes it's power over me.


----------



## MartinBeck

Spitfire said:


> If you were controlling, insulting and withheld sex, I can tell you he was done many years ago. No amount of change now will erase what’s been done in the past.



This, exactly. 

Also - In his mind he’s doing the right thing by waiting until the kids are 18 and giving you a lot of notice. 
This is his way of regaining some power and recovering some control in the relationship.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

I kind of feel like your husband in my own marriage. My wife was always difficult, always seems pissed off no matter what I did, yells at the children, impatient and angry while cooking dinner. It's exhausting dealing with someone who is always in a bad mood. I've tried real hard to feel about her like I did years ago and I can't. Even sex which I used to pathetically beg for and got as either a reward, or removed for a punishment comes frequently now, but I find myself not really wanting it with her anymore. I thought maybe just since hitting late 30's and 40 my sex drive is waning but it's not, with another woman I know it would be different.

It's sad because I don't want the marriage to end, but it's just not there anymore. I find myself so tired by the thought of marriage and just want to be alone and do my own thing.


----------



## Pleaseineedhelp

I just keep hearing Billy Joel: Although this is a fight I can lose the accused is an innocent man.

I have taken the time to be introspective on how we got here. I will own being insulting. I did insult him through words on occasion. I wish I had been better.

I am chosing to put the past behind us and move forward with a new do-over. We are now older and there's no benefit in carrying the sins of our past. If the damage has been done and it's truly over, nothing in the next three years can heal the wounds for him, so be it.

Someday he will think back and pehaps feel some of my actions though clumsy and hurtful were perhaps justified. Over the course of our marriage he had his share of blame for the dysfunction. He did his share of button pushing, that I often felt was intensional to cause a fight so he could accuse me of causing strife.

Though it was a small town and I was involved with a number of organizations and parent groups and we had a police calling neighbor, he would insist on smoking pot on the back porch for all to smell. Potentially damaging my reputation and that of my children and parents. His defense was it didn't happen very often and I just needed to chill. We lived a few blocks from a large park; he had choices.

He insisted on managing the money because I was doing it and he wanted to understand it better, then emptied our bank accounts including taking the hit on our retirement accounts, trying to boost his business. 

His mother is a hateful person and he would use me as a shield. To this day he doesn't understand why I won't take her abuse for him. Since she isn't my mother, why do I care what she says?

I could go on, but much of this is in the distant past where it belongs, and I see no benefit in swimming around in it, other than to defend myself a bit here, that if I were controlling, I felt some reason to do so.

What he likely isn't realizing is I am working to ready myself and if we go three more years, it will be because I am choosing to, which given the amont of pain I feel nearly every day, I don't think I have that kind of strength. I feel I have put up with a lot over the years and stood beside him and supported him. And while I was not perfect, we both are to blame. 

If at this point in life, at age 49, he is truly tired of the responsibilities of adult life and wants to smoke pot and drink with the boys, and live paycheck to paycheck, then he's right, we will both be better off. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it and have been hoping it wasn't true and he just said those things to repel me.

Like in all things, time will tell I guess.


----------



## MJJEAN

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> It has been much much slower than I expected but I am seeing subtle changes. *We moved out of the little town we lived in to a bigger city (his doing). We are going out more. We have been to more movies (one of my favorite pre-marriage activities) in the past 4 months than we have been in our 25 years together. We sometimes meet for drinks before he arrives home from his travels. Often dinner out one weekend night. It's a lifestyle we used to enjoy but put on hold while we raised our kids in a small town.*
> 
> He certainly let me carry the weight for longer than I expected, but I did it to show I can do it. I don't actually need him, I want him. His position has always been He makes the money, I am a stay at home wife and should be taking care of everything else. But as I took on more of the responsibiities of our lives willingly the difference between us was more apparent, and he is beginning to slowly pick-up his share. *He recently verbalized that he had stopped helping me parent and I can see him interacting more with our girls.* I am staying silent on any critisim or nagging for him to do anything.
> 
> *For these reasons I felt ready to ask him the other weekend what his intentions are and clearly his response was dissapointing.* So I find myself entering the next phase of my divorce plan. Do I stay the course because I do see change or do I beging a stronger level of disengaging myself? I don't intend to make any big changes until after the holidays, but I'm a planner, so this is my style, plus I'm about to start a full time careeer job, so that itself will bring change in what I do around here.
> 
> Again I appreciate everyone's input more than you can know. Even talking about it here somehow removes it's power over me.


I think part of your problem is that you are acting trying to save the marriage and he isn't even in the same book, much less on the same page.

He said he wanted a divorce and to be friends. You've basically given him exactly what he wants. In his mind, the marriage is over and the friendship is going great. You meet for drinks, go to movies, and occasionally have dinner together...like close friends do. Clearly, you aren't getting the result you want. Time to change tactics. Now that he knows how good things could be with you, take it all away. Make him live life as if you're just another one of 7 billion strangers on the planet. If he realizes how much he misses you and decides to stay married, great. If not, you'll be completely detached in short order and ready to move on with your life.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

marriageontherocks2, you sound very much like my husband. I understand being exhausted by the fighting. I was too. I even suggested once or twice that we should consider separating in an effort to break the cycle. He always declared undying love and horror at the thought. I tried so hard to put down my weapons time and again, but I took his bait every single time...until Februrary. I heard him as the woman who reads your post and I just wanted his pain to stop without thought to my own pain.

I don't know your situation, I don't even feel like I understand mine, but I do hope you find a way to help her find peace. I can understand now that I was angry much of the time because I felt alone in the marriage and then in the family once the kids got old enough to backchat. example: no one picked up after themselves, expected me to do everything and if I got upset and hollared, my husband would intervene and I was the bad guy for losing my temper. I couldn't win and it was terrible lonely.


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## FieryHairedLady

OP

I am very sorry you are going through this.

Lot's of people with great advice.

Oldshirt's post are great. Read and reread. 

What happened in the past is in the past and hindsight is always 20/20.

You have been working on changing and trying to improve your marriage for almost a year now. 

But this man is still dead set on divorce.

He is throwing you away like garbage.

You are older now and he is no longer attracted to you?

That is horrible.

We all age.

You gave him 2 kids, a home, your love, your time, your youth. Once the kids are gone, you are out with the trash?

I like all the improvements you are doing. 

But now it is time to get angry.

I agree with making a plan, but I don't agree with sitting here for 3 years hoping this man has a change of heart.

25 years is worth a second chance.

I think you need to sit with him asap and have a heart to heart.

Let him know you are sorry for whatever it is you have done to play your part in this.

Let him know you have made an earnest effort to change this past year.

I understand counseling is expensive, but so is divorce.

Find out is he is done DONE, or if there is a chance to work towards reconciliation. 

Give him a week to make the decision. 

If there is a chance, pay and get the marriage counseling.

But if he comes back and says no.

Then you have your answer.

Time to get angry.

The gloves need to come off.

Like the others have said, get financial affairs in order. 

Contact the top divorce attorney's in your area. If you talk to them first it is a conflict of interest and he can not hire them.

If his happy timeline is 3 years.

Why make him happy.

Why make his life easy.

It's going to hurt, but better to rip the bandaid off sooner rather then later.

You are not worthless.

You are a beautiful human being.

He is walking all over you.

If he doesn't want you any more, why stay with him?

Get out now. 

I think almost a year of you changing and trying to work on the marriage is plenty of time. 

Time to stir things up.

Be polite, be calm, but let him know you have had enough.

Time for divorce papers.

Hit him hard with alimony.

Hit him with child support.


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## Elizabeth001

And a VAR may prove to be worth the time and effort if it turns up evidence of an affair. That may be painful to find out but would be extremely helpful in a divorce. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## marriageontherocks2

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> marriageontherocks2, you sound very much like my husband. I understand being exhausted by the fighting. I was too. I even suggested once or twice that we should consider separating in an effort to break the cycle. He always declared undying love and horror at the thought. I tried so hard to put down my weapons time and again, but I took his bait every single time...until Februrary. I heard him as the woman who reads your post and I just wanted his pain to stop without thought to my own pain.
> 
> I don't know your situation, I don't even feel like I understand mine, but I do hope you find a way to help her find peace. I can understand now that I was angry much of the time because I felt alone in the marriage and then in the family once the kids got old enough to backchat. example: no one picked up after themselves, expected me to do everything and if I got upset and hollared, my husband would intervene and I was the bad guy for losing my temper. I couldn't win and it was terrible lonely.


Yeah I'm not innocent in all this, in a 17 year marriage both parties will have a lot to answer to, especially since we married at me(22), her(19). It seems our first decade together was just one-upping each other on how ****ty of a spouse we could be.

I've tried the hard-reset after we talked about issues, it just hasn't worked. I went to counseling, I'm the one reading self-help books on improving the marriage. I'm like the woman. But she's still in fight mode and not getting it. And I'm in walkaway mode. I was always madly in love with my wife, so much so I put up with terrible treatment over the years. But now I just don't feel it anymore, I love her but it's not the same. The thought of losing her doesn't scare me anymore, which to think about is scary in its own right. Everything's just different. In the past we fought and I needed her approval, I needed to make up, hold each other. Now she fights and I don't give a **** if she ever speaks to me again.


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## MJJEAN

Elizabeth001 said:


> And a VAR may prove to be worth the time and effort if it turns up evidence of an affair. That may be painful to find out but would be extremely helpful in a divorce.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Personally, yes, I think a VAR and any proof of infidelity it might uncover would be helpful. In terms of it being helpful in a divorce, this greatly depends where they live. In most U.S. states and territories, infidelity has no bearing on divorce, custody, or asset division.


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## marriageontherocks2

MJJEAN said:


> Personally, yes, I think a VAR and any proof of infidelity it might uncover would be helpful. In terms of it being helpful in a divorce, this greatly depends where they live. In most U.S. states and territories, infidelity has no bearing on divorce, custody, or asset division.


Not only that, but using a VAR can be deemed a criminal activity, more and more people are getting arrested and charged with things like breaking into a spouses email, recording them without their knowledge, etc...

A VAR is good to confirm a suspicion, but don't get caught, and don't reveal that you were secretly recording them. If they go to the police you may be surprised at how screwed you can be depending on the laws of your state. And like you said, since basically every state is no-fault divorce now, it's largely meaningless in a divorce proceeding anyway.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

It sounds nearly the same, only we didn't start one-upping until the kids came around. We have both stopped the fighting now. We still disagree from time to time, but it's a much much different event. It took awhile. At the beginning I didn't take his bait and my husband mocked me saying: Are you just going to let me do anything now? and I responded "it seems for the next three years anyway." Then he mocked me again for not taking the bait the next weekend and I responded "I am just trying to be a better person".

I sometimes wondered if my husband wanted us to fight for the same kind of result...he would create a fight by driving absurdly fast, or saying inappropriate things, then he would be amazingly contrite and wanting forgiveness and affection. 

Yesterday as I was engaged here in this thread, he kept asking me to come cuddle and watch tv with him. He kept asking what I was doing typing so much. I told him I was writing my memoirs  

I don't know if it's too late for us. If he's lost that loving feeling for good and we will just become some sappy sad love song. I see Chris Martin all smiles with Qwyneth Paltrow and her new mate and I wonder if I could ever be that person. I never imagined I would have to wonder about that kind of thing.


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## marriageontherocks2

@Pleaseineedhelp - You're doing all the right things for yourself in trying to be a better person and honestly evaluating your behavior. Most people never do that and sit in bitterness only faulting the other person. Keep working on yourself and not matter what happens with your marriage you'll be better off for the work you put in. It could be the improvements you make only benefit your next serious relationship. You can't control that now.

As for your husband wanting to cuddle and expecting affection all while declaring he only wants to be friends is weird. I would stop doing that, you don't get love and affection while marching towards divorce IMO. If he's stated he refuses to work on the marriage then give him the 180, see how that works.


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## dadstartingover

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I kind of feel like your husband in my own marriage. My wife was always difficult, always seems pissed off no matter what I did, yells at the children, impatient and angry while cooking dinner. It's exhausting dealing with someone who is always in a bad mood. I've tried real hard to feel about her like I did years ago and I can't. Even sex which I used to pathetically beg for and got as either a reward, or removed for a punishment comes frequently now, but I find myself not really wanting it with her anymore. I thought maybe just since hitting late 30's and 40 my sex drive is waning but it's not, with another woman I know it would be different.
> 
> It's sad because I don't want the marriage to end, but it's just not there anymore. I find myself so tired by the thought of marriage and just want to be alone and do my own thing.


It's almost as if, early in the relationship, the woman puts a spell on us. We are so over-the-top in love (lust) that we just overlook the little annoyances. We work on the relationship. If that lust is maintained, we'll ignore the effects of life and continue to look at our spouse as the most beautiful and wanted creature on Earth... for years and years. And then... you both get comfortable. All those little things that say "I'm a pretty girl" or "I'm a good catch" go to the side. Kids. Kids can so easily ruin everything. Then your wife becomes less agreeable and moodier. She will very eagerly point out your flaws. Repeatedly. She will attempt to control all aspects of your life together. She basically becomes a typical a-hole man. Her presence is an annoyance. A giant turnoff. She's no longer the oasis we need. She's just another angry mom. 

Then... *FLIP*. Things change in our heads. Our programming says "Female is no longer fit for copulation. Detach immediately." We check out. We stop working on the relationship. We stop caring. Porn use goes up (we still have needs). The eye wanders a lot more. Eventually, we may hit the gym more. Get nicer clothes. Flirt more. We're in mating mode again. Just not for our wife. 

Wife wakes up. "Whoa! Man more attractive now. He looks better. He's more scarce. He doesn't seem to need me so much anymore. Other gals like him, I can tell. My mating ritual machine is back on again!" 

Man says "Meh... Not really feeling it."


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## MJJEAN

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Yesterday as I was engaged here in this thread, he kept asking me to come cuddle and watch tv with him. He kept asking what I was doing typing so much. I told him I was writing my memoirs


Have you thought of explaining to him that divorcing people don't cuddle and, seeing as you're going to divorce and all, what you're doing isn't his business?


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## Openminded

He doesn't get to call the shots for the next three years. If he wants out then he doesn't get you doing anything and everything for him. Put some distance in there. Let him feel what that's like (and it doesn't include cuddling).


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you. It does feel like mixed messages and maybe it is. I have to believe it's hard for him to walk away from our 25 years together. We have shared an incredible life of travel, successes, adventures, children, laughs and tears. 

I am doing what I can when I can for him, but I am trying to keep it measured. I have started going away with friends on weekends now. I didn't tell him anything about my interviewing for the job, I didn't tell him until I got the written offer. He seemed hurt, but I reminded him he said we didn't need to tell each other everything anymore.

I tell my friends from college, who have helped me through those breakups, that I really want to come out of this with my dignity, unlike when I was young and sexy  When he thinks of me, I want to be the woman I am now and when we first married, not the angry me of the past 3 years or so. 

I'm sure my actions can appear doormatish, and maybe they are, but I have rediscovered myself, I like this woman, I am a kind and loving woman, who is strong enough to withstand a lot. I accept that I can't stop him from wanting a divorce, but when he thinks back on this time, I want him to feel the twinge of walking away from a wonderful woman.


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## marriageontherocks2

dadstartingover said:


> It's almost as if, early in the relationship, the woman puts a spell on us. We are so over-the-top in love (lust) that we just overlook the little annoyances. We work on the relationship. If that lust is maintained, we'll ignore the effects of life and continue to look at our spouse as the most beautiful and wanted creature on Earth... ..
> 
> She's no longer the oasis we need. She's just another angry mom.


My wife is still very attractive, and I'm sure that allowed me to rationalize the BS I put up with. But yeah it no longer really makes a difference now, physical beauty isn't a replacement for being kind and treating someone decent.



dadstartingover said:


> Then... *FLIP*. Things change in our heads. Our programming says "Female is no longer fit for copulation. Detach immediately." We check out. We stop working on the relationship. We stop caring. Porn use goes up (we still have needs). The eye wanders a lot more. Eventually, we may hit the gym more. Get nicer clothes. Flirt more. We're in mating mode again. Just not for our wife.
> 
> Man says "Meh... Not really feeling it."


The last thing I'm thinking of is mating mode, I'm being totally honest. I don't know that I would ever be in a relationship again if I were to divorce. The idea of being alone, traveling, doing my own thing whether it's working late, getting a few beers with friends, or climbing Everest sounds the most appealing to me. If I divorce I may go monk mode and just fly solo for life. I have my kids and they're mine for life, soon I'll have grandkids to spoil and teach things. I have friends, and in my experience, a relationship with a woman has been more damaging than beneficial (for me at least) both financially and emotionally. So flying solo until I drop dead feels right to me.

With porn, I'm torn because it's a great outlet for men who can't land a woman, or even a couple spicing things up. We've all had dry spells and porn gets us through. But in a bad marriage, it's like adding heroin on top of the alcohol addiction. What started as 5 minute perusing to rub one out ends up as a 3 hour marathon beating session in the middle of the night to the craziest **** you would imagine that's legal on the Internet. To me, it's a rabbit hole so I just avoid it altogether.

_Sorry for the hijack, but maybe my perspective can help the OP._


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## Pleaseineedhelp

It does help. You sound just like my husband, who assures me he is not in another relationship and has no interest in having another. Sometimes I think it's hopeless to try to compete with the lifestyle you describe. I know I enjoyed it fully when it was mine. 

With your feelings so numb to your wife, why do you still say "IF" you divorce? Not that I want to imply you should, I want to know what the magic is that's keeping you around since you sound so much like my husband. I feel like his three years is an opportunity to fix things: if I wanted out, I would leave now.


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## marriageontherocks2

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> It does help. You sound just like my husband, who assures me he is not in another relationship and has no interest in having another...
> 
> With your feelings so numb to your wife, why do you still say "IF" you divorce?


I think the biggest difference between me and your husband is if my wife tried, I would give her and the marriage an opportunity to succeed and see if things came back, no matter how much I'm convinced that it's hopeless. If my wife did what you've explained in this thread, I do think the marriage could work.

My youngest is a little guy I wouldn't divorce until he was in H.S. so I'm looking at 8-10 years minimum (assuming nothing major changes like an affair or she leaves me). But with her not wanting to work on things, and putting in no effort we will divorce, it's inevitable.

I do leave open the possibility that between then and now things will improve, she'll get IC which she desperately needs, and then she'll want to truly work on things and actually have a real relationship. But as things are, my worst fear is being in my 40's and a near empty-nester with just me and her living together under these same circumstances.


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## Rowan

Honestly, OP, it sounds to me like your husband is likely exceptionally self-centered. Being angry with you for not keeping his business properly afloat after he'd already run through your savings to finance it, before having to take an outside job when it began failing? Yeah, that's him being butthurt with his own failure but looking for someone else to blame, since it couldn't possibly be his own fault. He used to bait you so you'd react in anger? He needed you to be the angry, *****y, wife so he'd feel justified in blaming you for everything. Now he wants to cuddle and be besties while you're basically in limbo waiting for him to divorce you? He wants the convenience of you, the utility of you, until he's ready to discard you - after he won't owe child support anymore. He wants everything on his own terms and seems to have trouble conceptualizing his own personal responsibility. 

Yes, you've had your faults. But your husband seems to have a need for you to take the blame for his own emotions, failures, and issues. And, best guess, he's also been running around with whomever while he's away at work for at least the last several years. It may have started when he needed some ego stroking after his business declined and he had to take a job again. That would certainly explain the over-the-top baiting and blaming you for everything that seemed to begin around that time frame.


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## Magnesium

Rowan said:


> Honestly, OP, it sounds to me like your husband is likely exceptionally self-centered. Being angry with you for not keeping his business properly afloat after he'd already run through your savings to finance it, before having to take an outside job when it began failing? Yeah, that's him being butthurt with his own failure but looking for someone else to blame, since it couldn't possibly be his own fault. He used to bait you so you'd react in anger? He needed you to be the angry, *****y, wife so he'd feel justified in blaming you for everything. Now he wants to cuddle and be besties while you're basically in limbo waiting for him to divorce you? He wants the convenience of you, the utility of you, until he's ready to discard you - after he won't owe child support anymore. He wants everything on his own terms and seems to have trouble conceptualizing his own personal responsibility.
> 
> Yes, you've had your faults. But your husband seems to have a need for you to take the blame for his own emotions, failures, and issues. And, best guess, he's also been running around with whomever while he's away at work for at least the last several years. It may have started when he needed some ego stroking after his business declined and he had to take a job again. That would certainly explain the over-the-top baiting and blaming you for everything that seemed to begin around that time frame.



Yes....this.

I just finished reading this whole thread and I was so glad to see this post at the end because it says everything I've been thinking.

Of course, you could be the awful shrew he seems to have succeeded in convincing you that you are, but I have a hard time imagining that THAT person would put in the effort to change as you have done, OP.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

I was indeed a shrew. Liz Taylor had nothing on me! If I had the guts to divulge all of my ugly on here you would be disgusted. BUT I've worked extremely hard to find and release the old me, who thankfully was still inside. I feel very fortunate and am grateful to my old friends who helped me re-find myself. They put in a lot of hours on the phone reminiscing about how I used to be and scolding me for becoming what I was. That's love!


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## Magnesium

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> I was indeed a shrew. Liz Taylor had nothing on me! If I had the guts to divulge all of my ugly on here you would be disgusted. BUT I've worked extremely hard to find and release the old me, who thankfully was still inside. I feel very fortunate and am grateful to my old friends who helped me re-find myself. They put in a lot of hours on the phone reminiscing about how I used to be and scolding me for becoming what I was. That's love!


Okay, I will take your word for it. I do not, however, think that it means he is not completely selfish and self-absorbed.


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## dadstartingover

marriageontherocks2 said:


> The last thing I'm thinking of is mating mode, I'm being totally honest. I don't know that I would ever be in a relationship again if I were to divorce. The idea of being alone, traveling, doing my own thing whether it's working late, getting a few beers with friends, or climbing Everest sounds the most appealing to me. If I divorce I may go monk mode and just fly solo for life. I have my kids and they're mine for life, soon I'll have grandkids to spoil and teach things. I have friends, and in my experience, a relationship with a woman has been more damaging than beneficial (for me at least) both financially and emotionally. So flying solo until I drop dead feels right to me.
> [/I]


You're conditioned. You think "mating mode" means "settle down with one woman". You can have your adventure and have a few women you enjoy spending time with every now and then. If you don't think you can do the casual sex thing without crumbling and succumbing to the draw of a long-term relationship (and dropping all of your dreams and ambitions), then yeah... stay away from women.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Ooorr, you could enjoy the company of women for their humor, inspiration, sense of adventure, fun, conversation, and not even have sex with them!


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## 3Xnocharm

Find out who his girlfriend is and expose them. Get a job and divorce him.


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## marriageontherocks2

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Ooorr, you could enjoy the company of women for their humor, inspiration, sense of adventure, fun, conversation, and not even have sex with them!


I would do that, but that's not a relationship in the sense I'm thinking about. I'm talking about not having a romantic relationship and just flying solo. Friendships are a different thing altogether.


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## Betrayedone

Tell his ass if he wants a divorce to do it now.........a 3 year plan is ridiculous.


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## Handy

Pleaseineedhelp, I think your H was deeply hurt by many things you said to him and is himself not seeing how he contributed to the wanting to leave in 3 years.

I am seeing the 3 years as a wall he put up to protect HIS feelings and not an actual deadline when he will jump into action. I am more of the opinion his 3 years will just get extended like I can do with an over due library book. I just call in and get another 4 week extension. I intend to read the book but I never get around to it because living life seems to be more important
.

For me there is too much divorce talk on this forum but do take all of the time you need to be what YOU want to be and when you have a job, put some money aside for a rainy day if you 2 ever divorce. I have read too many divorce threads where people separate and money is so scares, even some of the basics of life are difficult to obtained. Having some extra cash smoothes over those sharp edges

No one person can be another person's total support system so it is good that you have friends.

One thing i think is hindering some relationship progress is you not telling each other about what you might be doing in the future, such as work or trips that does not involve the other spouse. Some people don't want to have to get the other person's approval for future activities but leaving the other person out of the loop is relationship damaging. I am saying you or your H doesn't have to ask for approval, which is not the same as informing the other spouse what you intend to do. The more you two share information wise, the better the bond will be between you two, so share your ideas without asking for any form of approval.

As for my situation, my M is similar to marriageontherocks2 and yours. I tried to do so many things for my W's approval or her happiness so I would be loved/respected, and it didn't work out that way, I just gave up. She is a very negative person and reminds me of the "Goldy Locks" story. Most things are too this or too that and very few things are just right. She did the separate bedrooms and no sex many years ago so now there is little emotional connections and we just have obligation connections.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you Handy. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and experience. The three years has stumped me. Clearly I could take him at face value and he could be so calculating to consider the children and alimony etc, but he doesn't strike me like that. He told me again he expects me to live in this beautiful home. When I scoffed that I will never be able to afford it, he reassured me he will provide for me as always. It seems a naive gesture. 

I go back and forth on how I want to handle this news. When I feel strong, I want to ride it out and see where it goes, like it's some movie and I want to see how it ends...but often the pain in my chest is so great I can hardly breathe and I just want it to stop. Those days take all my strength not to pull the plug myself. 

Some days I think "Screw the Bastard" and enjoy the company of my friends and imagine the fun I will have when I am free. Other days I scrutinize his every expression and hint of a thought to see if there is a sign he may love me like he once did.

It broke my own heart to not tell him about applying for my new job. Then I had three interviews that I kept secret from him. I had hoped to be able to start the job and see how long I could go until he asked about my whereabouts and I would tell him I was working. He was here when the offer letter arrived and I started crying because I couldn't believe he was no longer my best friend. He was enemy #1 trying to destroy my family. He saw me crying and asked about it and I just sobbed like a baby telling him I had a job. This lead to my asking about his current intentions which are still to leave... eventually.

I know I hurt him in our marriage. God knows I tried! But it was a pretty fair fight. I took a number of blows too. Not accepting his offers to cuddle and reminding him he plans to divorce me and so doesn't deserve my cuddles feels like how we behaved towards each other last year. I promised myself I would never be like that again. If he asks to cuddle-up to watch TV and I have nothing better going on, I intend to get me some snuggles. It feels good and I very much need some loving these days. He might be getting something for nothing, but I am too.

I am sorry to hear of your life. I know how lonely it feels. The surprising thing is my husband would say the same things about me as you say about your wife, and I would think he couldn't be more wrong about me. I didn't feel negative in the way he described. I often felt that he wouldn't let me give my real opinion without taking it personally. It felt like I wasn't allowed to not like something without him pointing out how negative I was. But you know what? Sometimes a chair just isn't comfortable or a movie sucks! I never meant that he sucked for suggesting the movie. A big difference. But perhaps too late for me now.


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## 3Xnocharm

Do NOT cuddle with him! WTF are you thinking?? He wants to divorce you, and you are going to CUDDLE with him?? Can you not see how seriously effed up that is?? Have you no pride or self respect?? Tell him if he wants a divorce that he needs to do it NOW and to get the hell out of your home. Find your lady balls, woman!

He is going to provide for you? Classic cheater move. All of this is. Staying put for three years "for the kids", telling you he will provide for you once its over, shifting blame over to you that you treated him sooo badly... all of it screams CHEATER! It is all about him cake eating and easing his guilt. I will repeat what I already said... FIND OUT WHO HIS GIRLFRIEND IS AND EXPOSE THEM far and wide!


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## FrazzledSadHusband

I think you should be communicating about jobs, and accepting cuddles if he asks. The cuddles could be his way of testing the waters to see if you really have changed. You push him away and it's the same old thing.

When you are cuddling, don't be too obvious, but park your butt on his lap. Even if he has hardened his heart, most guys can't go very long with a curvy butt up against them before things heat up.

The 3 year timeline could be his way of a last warning?? Or he wants to stay together, but just can't make himself vunerable anymore?

Here is a link you may find helpfull, www.forgivenwife.com She may have some articles and/or she replies to email.

If you controlled the marital sex life for years, there is a immense amount of resentment built up, and your husband has to figure out how to let that go.

That was a real struggle for me, and I finally found a Joyce Meyer sermon that I have on my DVR, that got played many times while I was cooking & washing the dishes. I still listen to it once & awhile.

The gist of it I needed to & still pray this "God you know how she treated me, I ask you take the resentment from me, help me to forgive her. I trust that if there is anything that needs to be dealt with, you will handle it". I then go on with my day, not dwelling on the past.

That's what he needs for himself, and what you need to pray if you have resentment towards him.


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## oldshirt

There are warning signs, threats, ultimatums and statements of intent. 

Warning signs are indications that someone is pulling back or disconnecting such as spending less and less time together, appearing detached, indulging heavily into hobbies or other individual pursuits, increase in drinking/drugs etc, decreased interest in sex/affection etc. 

Threats (example; "do that/say that again, I will divorce you!" ) are often occur in the heat of the moment and indicate that a certain topic is causing them to consider divorce. The threat may be serious and sincere or it could be a moment of passion. 

An ultimatum is a more serious and direct affirmation that if a certain behavior does not change, that a definitive action will be taken as a result. 

A statement of intent is an affirmation that a decision has been made and that a course of action has been planned. The statement of intent is to inform the recipient of what that person intends to do. 

Typically as a relationship degrades, there is a pattern of following this general course. There are warning signs that the relationship is experiencing stress and disruptions and that the connection is becoming strained and degraded. As things continue to the downward spiral, there are often threats in various forms being hurled. At some point ultimatums are often made. 

If this all continues without corrective action, then the disconnect becomes complete, decisions are made and plans are formed. 

It is rare that the statement of intent is the first sign or indicator of an issue. It is often the last in a chain of events leading up to the decisions and plans being made. 

During the phases up to and including the ultimatum, corrective action can change the course and affect the outcome. 

Once the final disconnect has occurred and the decisions made and plans formulated, it becomes much more difficult to turn things around. 

The reason for this is there has likely been years of warning signs overlooked or ignored, threats being disregarded and no actions being taken following ultimatums. 

Playing nice in the days following the statement of intent often has little impact because anyone can play-act temporarily. 

When someone has continued the unacceptable behavior for years throughout all the other phases of indicating dissatisfaction and only changes their behavior AFTER the disconnect has occurred and after the decisions have been made, it's often too little too late and appears to simply be trying to butter them up and further manipulate the situation. 

No one can say that things can't be turned around. Anything is possible. But it does become much more difficult and much more unlikely. 

The reason that I and some of the other posters have urged you to take this seriously and take immediate and serious measures to move forward with your own life is the statement of intent that your husband made is likely the end of a long chain of events that have been playing out for many years. 

The lack of warmth and sexuality, the emotional disconnect, the workaholism, the disconnect over activities with the children, the fights etc are all warning signs and indicators of chronic break down of the relationship. 

I am going to guess that there were threats of divorce and ultimatums issued at various times over the years. Can you confirm if there was or not? I have trouble believing this was simply out of the blue. 

What is also telling here is that his statement of planning to leave in three years was not made in a moment of passion but was rather made at a time of calm following a big argument. That fight was likely the straw that broke the camel's back that secured the decision and confirmed his plan of action. .... a plan that was likely several years in the making.


----------



## Blondilocks

What's going to happen to your psyche if you do the 'pick me dance' for another 2 years and he still divorces when the time limit is up? 

Are you going to be resentful and angry that you wasted all of this time? Are you going to be resentful and angry that precious hasn't had to do any of the adult things like chores while you've been working and taking care of everything at home? You can't 'nice' him back. He'll just enjoy the free ride and cuddles 'til he packs his bags.


----------



## MartinBeck

3Xnocharm said:


> Do NOT cuddle with him! WTF are you thinking?? He wants to divorce you, and you are going to CUDDLE with him?? Can you not see how seriously effed up that is?? Have you no pride or self respect?? Tell him if he wants a divorce that he needs to do it NOW and to get the hell out of your home. Find your lady balls, woman!
> 
> 
> 
> He is going to provide for you? Classic cheater move. All of this is. Staying put for three years "for the kids", telling you he will provide for you once its over, shifting blame over to you that you treated him sooo badly... all of it screams CHEATER! It is all about him cake eating and easing his guilt. I will repeat what I already said... FIND OUT WHO HIS GIRLFRIEND IS AND EXPOSE THEM far and wide!



Nope. My money says there’s no other woman. Maybe a 1 night stand on a business trip. He doesn’t have a girlfriend, he’s not having any kind of long-running affair.

OP - if you want to try to recover your marriage, if he initiates, don’t reject him.

The 3 year timeline is because he resents you enormously and can’t continue as-is, and needs to protect himself from being hurt more, but isn’t totally convinced in his own mind to actually leave you.


----------



## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you Oldshirt. Yes, I can confirm prior threats, but they were from me, in the heat of battle, years ago. This comes out of no where from him. 

I am currently going down two paths. One path of self improvement. After being let go in 2008, he looked for work for nearly 1 year. He then formed his own Internet business. He would ask for my help in research etc, then I helped in customer service and marketing areas. It was becoming clear to me the business was not taking off. It was draining us of money. He would not acknowledge it. It was the cause of tremendous stress and unpleasantness. Then I discovered he had emptied all of our savings accounts. I took him outside and calmly ran through the numbers with him and we determined we had 30-45 days until we reached zero. I could see the shock in his face, though I can't understand how he didn't see the accounts reducing or put it together what that meant.

He got some money from his parents and found work to bring in some income. It wasn't enough to cover our expenses, it was simply emergency income. He balked at finding better more appropriate work, but he did. He landed a job at his old level and income and we were on the road to financial recovery.

He didn't want to close his Internet Business and so I agreed to work it in the day and he would work a couple of hours at night after his job. I did my part, but he didn't do his. I would alert him of issues he needed to address and he would say he couldn't and I had to do it. I would tell him I didn't have the skills and we didn't have the money to pay someone, and he would get frustrated with me. I guess he thought I should try my best or get the skill. For the past two years, I have been asking him to shut it down. I don't know how to shut it down. He doesn't want to. He wants to sell it. I tell him to sell it then. It's costing us $800/month. I have cut back the expenses that I can with it.

I could be in some kind of denial, but I will go to my grave believing this is what destroyed my marriage. 

So since his announcement, I have been working to remove myself from his business, calm myself, I have recognized his stress levels from his job and how I make that worse on weekends by nagging him on things that need doing. 

He told me in February, and I had been requesting to move. Our home was very old (100+) and I couldn't do the maintenance necessary and I thought if we had a newer home, I could manage things better and not rely on him as much. When he said he wanted the divorce I immediately stopped thoughts of moving. We lived near my mom, and I thought if he leaves, the children and I will be happier in our familiar home near my mom. He insisted we move. He said he needed the change. He went house hunting with me, and he picked out this house. I used to be in banking so I helped organize the finances and secured the mortgage. I also organized the move. He didn't want to pay movers, so I did most of the move using my minivan, making three trips a day between the houses. For a couple of weeks I had some help from a visiting cousin of his, and we rented a moving van which irritated my husband. I didn't take the bait and make a fight. I was just shocked that he said anything. It was $150. It then fell to me to prepare the old home for showings etc. I painted the interior and cleaned it thoroughly washing the interior woodwork and nooks and crannies and chose the furniture to stay behind for staging etc. The house sold immediately for a great price.

As these events played out, I understood they were check-offs on the list of necessary steps to divorce. I told my friends I felt like I was digging my own grave - and doing a great job!

As I work to improve myself and my role in the marriage, I am also preparing for divorce to the extent I know how to. I have opened my own bank account (not that it matters in this state it's a marital property state). Over the summer while I was moving us, I was also looking for work and applying for jobs. I didn't want just any job, I wanted one that would provide growth, a career, and the ability to move around and transfer. It took awhile but I will start such a job next week.

I don't know how to find a "good attorney". My mother is 85 and I stand to inherit a good deal of money. I have wondered if his three year plan factors that in. I told my mother of his intentions, and asked her to help me protect that money. I suggested after the move and things settle down, we go to her financial adviser to learn what if anything I can do. I don't really know how to get a divorce.

So it seems to me phase one of getting a divorce is completed. And I am facing phase two. I assume that entails getting an attorney and I don't know what...how long does it take? How does it play out? Am I making the divorce happen?

I feel a bit conflicted that he gets to jet off to New York while I successfully move us and divorce us. The events in combination I don't want. BUT it's in my best interest to sell our old home for as much as possible and save as much money as possible, so I am sucking it up and doing my best, before you all start with the doormat reactions again.

So I get stuck on this three years part. Since February we have gotten along well. Discussions of his business are calm. We had a flare-up a few weekends ago, but I stayed calm reminding him that I am out, have been asking out for a couple of years now. But I ended up writing a financial report for him to submit anyway that was a year overdue and I believe he was in jeopardy of legal action had it not been done. He very well may still get in trouble. He asked this weekend if I had heard any reaction to the report.

Over the course of our 25 year relationship, I would say our arguments were on the normal side of things: Loading and unloading the dishwasher was a common one. He is European and drives like a Italian taxi driver, so I hated when he drove. He speeds and I guess enjoys the sensation of a car out of control. We would have terrible fights over that. We would arrive to our destination with me in tears afraid for my life. I would accuse him of being insensitive to my comfort and he would counter that I was controlling. It took awhile, but I finally figured out I should do all of the together driving since I hated his driving so much and it as the cause of so much anger between us.

I don't know about the sex part. I don't know what other people are like. To the extent that I controlled it, I suppose technically I did. In the early years I complained that it was always me who initiated things. We both had big jobs and traveled a lot...but we worked for the same company and knew the same people and enjoyed a lot of love and I'm sure if either of us strayed the other would have been told by the company grapevine.

I noticed at some point years ago that he only initiated after he pissed me off or knew I was otherwise unlikely to want..too tired, a little sick, whatever. So I would turn him down and be irritated with him. Our sex life seemed normal enough. It wasn't like college, but felt more like dry spells than a red flag. He never ever complained about it. I would want to talk about wanting him to initiate more etc. When I would ask him if there was a problem he would say no, his desires just come and go kind of thing. After awhile I decided if he had been in an accident and couldn't have sex, I wouldn't leave him, so I would accept our low levels of sexual activity as part of the marriage.

I don't know what other insight I can provide. He was diagnosed with ADD a number of years ago. After the children came along, I really noticed his inability to complete things. When I was heavily pregnant, and he was scheduled for a flight that evening, he showed up in a tool belt, and I asked what was happening. He announced he was going to rebuild the basement stairs for me since they were unstable and I was pregnant. That turned into an argument that got pretty heated because he only had 4 hours until he had to leave for the airport and I was certain it would take longer to tear down and rebuild a flight of stairs. That was 17 years ago now. But we had a number of those kinds of arguments while I tried to stop him or start him or keep him focused. Because of the fighting over what I thought were ridiculous things, our marriage suffered. I thought he was doing these things on purpose to piss me off and someone suggested to me he might have add and we should get him tested...so we did and he did. I told him I see a big difference in someone with ADD and an ass, so we found calm again in the marriage.

I don't think I am in denial, I don't feel angry, I feel sad and hopeful. We have weathered many storms over the years. I go back and forth. What happens if we divorce now? Everyone moves out of this house? The kids have to shuttle between two household? I struggle to pay bills? 

I love my husband. We are getting along as well as ever. He calls and texts me while he's away. I can see he is trying to be better with me. He used to only take me to the movies once a year for my birthday...sometimes. We almost never went out to dinner, partially because of money but he often said because I cook better than a restaurant. We cuddle on the sofa more, our weekends are more stress free. Life is pretty good these days. When I asked him about it 2 weeks ago, he definitely down played it, but didn't rescind it either. He said he doesn't understand why people get worked up over future events. No one knows what will happen between now and then. I was thinking that my heart will explode or I will suffocate from not being able to breath on my bad days.

Then I think about the women I know whose husbands have been diagnosed with cancer or other fatal diseases. Those women aren't racing to divorce. Is my situation really different on a day to day basis? In a sense I've been given a marriage life expectancy of three years. I feel like I should use that time to find a cure. Am I really worse off if I wait until he pulls the trigger?

I kind of get the Where's my Pride questions. But my F-you response, which is usually quite healthy, just isn't kicking in. I have asked him if he's having an affair, if he's having a gay affair, why he wants to leave and why in three years, and he assures me he isn't having an affair, he just wants out of the struggle of marriage, and the three years is a nod to our children. He doesn't want to disrupt their childhood and schooling by introducing the upheaval. It seems reasonable to me.

If I forced the divorce and left, what does that get me in actuality? I become free to date? If he wants to divorce me, doesn't that free me up now? He's gone in the week, if I meet someone (maybe through my new job?) who wants to get to know me better, can't I have coffee with them and see where it goes now? I can tell them my situation. It doesn't seem like it should be cheating. If it progresses to a relationship, I can then pull the trigger. I also have the option available to me if and when I benefit from it.

I am not in an unkind household. We are getting along very well. I don't feel compelled to walk away. It seems my day to day existence would only deteriorate. 

What am I not seeing that everyone else is so worked up over? Am I being recommended to prepare emotionally? Financially? How do I prepare financially? It's a marital property state. I have access to the accounts. I see his w-2s and can compare income to deposits and discover if he's hiding money. The kids are teenage girls, nobody wants to take them from me.

I just don't have angry feelings. I don't want to be angry anymore. It seems like "the divorce" is just a substitute for his business if I start throwing it around as the reason I should be cold and distant from him. 

Perhaps we've both snapped, he out of love for me and me out of anger at him. I'm tire of feeling angry and I'm tired of fighting. I'm tired of worrying about his next step beit with his business and our finances, or his divorce plans. I am enjoying focusing on just me, and sometimes the girls. What the hell do I care now if he gets irritated that I am spending money on hairstyles and makeup and clothes, going away for the weekends with my friends? The threat of divorce is very liberating.

The move, which I orchestrated, got our finances in order and I reviewed them and they are finally healthy again, so that was a huge benefit of his insistence on moving. The only real thing I have to complain about is the divorce and I am pretty sure doing that will only bring it about faster and I want to stay married to this man. He is a lot of wonderful things. There are a lot of people who don't love me, he shouldn't be judged here because of that. I can tell many of you don't love me either!

I feel like I just want to float, pour a drink, and see where this all goes. I don't really want to fight or control it, I have no power here. I feel that I can handle whatever comes my way...unless you all know something I don't.


----------



## Magnesium

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Thank you Oldshirt. Yes, I can confirm prior threats, but they were from me, in the heat of battle, years ago. This comes out of no where from him.
> 
> I am currently going down two paths. One path of self improvement. After being let go in 2008, he looked for work for nearly 1 year. He then formed his own Internet business. He would ask for my help in research etc, then I helped in customer service and marketing areas. It was becoming clear to me the business was not taking off. It was draining us of money. He would not acknowledge it. It was the cause of tremendous stress and unpleasantness. Then I discovered he had emptied all of our savings accounts. I took him outside and calmly ran through the numbers with him and we determined we had 30-45 days until we reached zero. I could see the shock in his face, though I can't understand how he didn't see the accounts reducing or put it together what that meant.
> 
> He got some money from his parents and found work to bring in some income. It wasn't enough to cover our expenses, it was simply emergency income. He balked at finding better more appropriate work, but he did. He landed a job at his old level and income and we were on the road to financial recovery.
> 
> He didn't want to close his Internet Business and so I agreed to work it in the day and he would work a couple of hours at night after his job. I did my part, but he didn't do his. I would alert him of issues he needed to address and he would say he couldn't and I had to do it. I would tell him I didn't have the skills and we didn't have the money to pay someone, and he would get frustrated with me. I guess he thought I should try my best or get the skill. For the past two years, I have been asking him to shut it down. I don't know how to shut it down. He doesn't want to. He wants to sell it. I tell him to sell it then. It's costing us $800/month. I have cut back the expenses that I can with it.
> 
> I could be in some kind of denial, but I will go to my grave believing this is what destroyed my marriage.
> 
> So since his announcement, I have been working to remove myself from his business, calm myself, I have recognized his stress levels from his job and how I make that worse on weekends by nagging him on things that need doing.
> 
> He told me in February, and I had been requesting to move. Our home was very old (100+) and I couldn't do the maintenance necessary and I thought if we had a newer home, I could manage things better and not rely on him as much. When he said he wanted the divorce I immediately stopped thoughts of moving. We lived near my mom, and I thought if he leaves, the children and I will be happier in our familiar home near my mom. He insisted we move. He said he needed the change. He went house hunting with me, and he picked out this house. I used to be in banking so I helped organize the finances and secured the mortgage. I also organized the move. He didn't want to pay movers, so I did most of the move using my minivan, making three trips a day between the houses. For a couple of weeks I had some help from a visiting cousin of his, and we rented a moving van which irritated my husband. I didn't take the bait and make a fight. I was just shocked that he said anything. It was $150. It then fell to me to prepare the old home for showings etc. I painted the interior and cleaned it thoroughly washing the interior woodwork and nooks and crannies and chose the furniture to stay behind for staging etc. The house sold immediately for a great price.
> 
> As these events played out, I understood they were check-offs on the list of necessary steps to divorce. I told my friends I felt like I was digging my own grave - and doing a great job!
> 
> As I work to improve myself and my role in the marriage, I am also preparing for divorce to the extent I know how to. I have opened my own bank account (not that it matters in this state it's a marital property state). Over the summer while I was moving us, I was also looking for work and applying for jobs. I didn't want just any job, I wanted one that would provide growth, a career, and the ability to move around and transfer. It took awhile but I will start such a job next week.
> 
> I don't know how to find a "good attorney". My mother is 85 and I stand to inherit a good deal of money. I have wondered if his three year plan factors that in. I told my mother of his intentions, and asked her to help me protect that money. I suggested after the move and things settle down, we go to her financial adviser to learn what if anything I can do. I don't really know how to get a divorce.
> 
> So it seems to me phase one of getting a divorce is completed. And I am facing phase two. I assume that entails getting an attorney and I don't know what...how long does it take? How does it play out? Am I making the divorce happen?
> 
> I feel a bit conflicted that he gets to jet off to New York while I successfully move us and divorce us. The events in combination I don't want. BUT it's in my best interest to sell our old home for as much as possible and save as much money as possible, so I am sucking it up and doing my best, before you all start with the doormat reactions again.
> 
> So I get stuck on this three years part. Since February we have gotten along well. Discussions of his business are calm. We had a flare-up a few weekends ago, but I stayed calm reminding him that I am out, have been asking out for a couple of years now. But I ended up writing a financial report for him to submit anyway that was a year overdue and I believe he was in jeopardy of legal action had it not been done. He very well may still get in trouble. He asked this weekend if I had heard any reaction to the report.
> 
> Over the course of our 25 year relationship, I would say our arguments were on the normal side of things: Loading and unloading the dishwasher was a common one. He is European and drives like a Italian taxi driver, so I hated when he drove. He speeds and I guess enjoys the sensation of a car out of control. We would have terrible fights over that. We would arrive to our destination with me in tears afraid for my life. I would accuse him of being insensitive to my comfort and he would counter that I was controlling. It took awhile, but I finally figured out I should do all of the together driving since I hated his driving so much and it as the cause of so much anger between us.
> 
> I don't know about the sex part. I don't know what other people are like. To the extent that I controlled it, I suppose technically I did. In the early years I complained that it was always me who initiated things. We both had big jobs and traveled a lot...but we worked for the same company and knew the same people and enjoyed a lot of love and I'm sure if either of us strayed the other would have been told by the company grapevine.
> 
> I noticed at some point years ago that he only initiated after he pissed me off or knew I was otherwise unlikely to want..too tired, a little sick, whatever. So I would turn him down and be irritated with him. Our sex life seemed normal enough. It wasn't like college, but felt more like dry spells than a red flag. He never ever complained about it. I would want to talk about wanting him to initiate more etc. When I would ask him if there was a problem he would say no, his desires just come and go kind of thing. After awhile I decided if he had been in an accident and couldn't have sex, I wouldn't leave him, so I would accept our low levels of sexual activity as part of the marriage.
> 
> I don't know what other insight I can provide. He was diagnosed with ADD a number of years ago. After the children came along, I really noticed his inability to complete things. When I was heavily pregnant, and he was scheduled for a flight that evening, he showed up in a tool belt, and I asked what was happening. He announced he was going to rebuild the basement stairs for me since they were unstable and I was pregnant. That turned into an argument that got pretty heated because he only had 4 hours until he had to leave for the airport and I was certain it would take longer to tear down and rebuild a flight of stairs. That was 17 years ago now. But we had a number of those kinds of arguments while I tried to stop him or start him or keep him focused. Because of the fighting over what I thought were ridiculous things, our marriage suffered. I thought he was doing these things on purpose to piss me off and someone suggested to me he might have add and we should get him tested...so we did and he did. I told him I see a big difference in someone with ADD and an ass, so we found calm again in the marriage.
> 
> I don't think I am in denial, I don't feel angry, I feel sad and hopeful. We have weathered many storms over the years. I go back and forth. What happens if we divorce now? Everyone moves out of this house? The kids have to shuttle between two household? I struggle to pay bills?
> 
> I love my husband. We are getting along as well as ever. He calls and texts me while he's away. I can see he is trying to be better with me. He used to only take me to the movies once a year for my birthday...sometimes. We almost never went out to dinner, partially because of money but he often said because I cook better than a restaurant. We cuddle on the sofa more, our weekends are more stress free. Life is pretty good these days. When I asked him about it 2 weeks ago, he definitely down played it, but didn't rescind it either. He said he doesn't understand why people get worked up over future events. No one knows what will happen between now and then. I was thinking that my heart will explode or I will suffocate from not being able to breath on my bad days.
> 
> Then I think about the women I know whose husbands have been diagnosed with cancer or other fatal diseases. Those women aren't racing to divorce. Is my situation really different on a day to day basis? In a sense I've been given a marriage life expectancy of three years. I feel like I should use that time to find a cure. Am I really worse off if I wait until he pulls the trigger?
> 
> I kind of get the Where's my Pride questions. But my F-you response, which is usually quite healthy, just isn't kicking in. I have asked him if he's having an affair, if he's having a gay affair, why he wants to leave and why in three years, and he assures me he isn't having an affair, he just wants out of the struggle of marriage, and the three years is a nod to our children. He doesn't want to disrupt their childhood and schooling by introducing the upheaval. It seems reasonable to me.
> 
> If I forced the divorce and left, what does that get me in actuality? I become free to date? If he wants to divorce me, doesn't that free me up now? He's gone in the week, if I meet someone (maybe through my new job?) who wants to get to know me better, can't I have coffee with them and see where it goes now? I can tell them my situation. It doesn't seem like it should be cheating. If it progresses to a relationship, I can then pull the trigger. I also have the option available to me if and when I benefit from it.
> 
> I am not in an unkind household. We are getting along very well. I don't feel compelled to walk away. It seems my day to day existence would only deteriorate.
> 
> What am I not seeing that everyone else is so worked up over? Am I being recommended to prepare emotionally? Financially? How do I prepare financially? It's a marital property state. I have access to the accounts. I see his w-2s and can compare income to deposits and discover if he's hiding money. The kids are teenage girls, nobody wants to take them from me.
> 
> I just don't have angry feelings. I don't want to be angry anymore. It seems like "the divorce" is just a substitute for his business if I start throwing it around as the reason I should be cold and distant from him.
> 
> Perhaps we've both snapped, he out of love for me and me out of anger at him. I'm tire of feeling angry and I'm tired of fighting. I'm tired of worrying about this next step beit with his business and our finances, or his divorce plans. I am enjoying focusing on just me, and sometimes the girls. What the hell do I care now if he gets irritated that I am spending money on hairstyles and makeup and clothes, going away for the weekends with my friends? The threat of divorce is very liberating.
> 
> The move, which I orchestrated, got our finances in order and I reviewed them and they are finally healthy again, so that was a huge benefit of his insistence on moving. The only real thing I have to complain about is the divorce and I am pretty sure doing that will only bring it about faster and I want to stay married to this man. He is a lot of wonderful things. There are a lot of people who don't love me, he shouldn't be judged here because of that. I can tell many of you don't love me either!
> 
> I feel like I just want to float, pour a drink, and see where this all goes. I don't really want to fight or control it, I have no power here. I feel that I can handle whatever comes my way...unless you all know something I don't.


Why are you here?


----------



## marriageontherocks2

3Xnocharm said:


> Do NOT cuddle with him! WTF are you thinking?? He wants to divorce you, and you are going to CUDDLE with him?? Can you not see how seriously effed up that is?? Have you no pride or self respect??


I thought the same thing at first. But dissecting it a bit more. Why would a man hell bent on divorce want to cuddle with his wife? I think it's more likely that what's being said by the husband doesn't match his true feelings. If he really felt indifferent to her from years of nagging and harpy like behavior that she's since abandoned, he wouldn't want cuddling, or hand holding, or anything like that.

So the OP is doing it in hopes after years of him seeing this isn't just an act he'll come around and work on the marriage.


----------



## Pleaseineedhelp

Magnesium, I am here (though it could be the wrong forum topic) because I have lived long enough to know I don't always get what I want. I feel like I am facing phase two of How to get Divorced and I don't know how to get divorced. Just because I don't want to doesn't mean it isn't going to happen.

I feel like this second step is really the divorcing step. Finding an attorney, (I don't know how to determine a good one), separating the money, selling the new house, these are steps I can envision. They seem pretty permanent to me. 

I was hoping people would have experience with the three year concept. I was hoping people would say: No one gives a 3 year time frame, he clearly doesn't mean it, stop with the divorce and start making nice.

I've been making nice for 10 months and he said he doesn't see us growing old together just the other week, though no mention of three years or when.

I am only human too At some point, I won't live with an active threat of divorce hanging over me. I don't blackmail well. I fully understand that sometimes you can't go up until you reach the bottom, and you don't reach the bottom until you stop digging.

Perhaps I should have found some kind of Stop a divorce thread. I don't know what my topic is. I just don't have anyone to bounce these thoughts off of. I have only told a very few people because I don't want to do any further damage. The few people I have told are very well aware of my ugly side and so won't judge my husband harshly.

Magnesium, I'm sure I am frustrating. I won't fault you if you want to divorce from this thread. And I do thank you for your input and advice. This experience has been very powerful for me. I have tried to absorb all of it. Wisdom of crowds and all.


----------



## Magnesium

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Magnesium, I am here (though it could be the wrong forum topic) because I have lived long enough to know I don't always get what I want. I feel like I am facing phase two of How to get Divorced and I don't know how to get divorced. Just because I don't want to doesn't mean it isn't going to happen.
> 
> I feel like this second step is really the divorcing step. Finding an attorney, (I don't know how to determine a good one), separating the money, selling the new house, these are steps I can envision. They seem pretty permanent to me.
> 
> I was hoping people would have experience with the three year concept. I was hoping people would say: No one gives a 3 year time frame, he clearly doesn't mean it, stop with the divorce and start making nice.
> 
> I've been making nice for 10 months and he said he doesn't see us growing old together just the other week, though no mention of three years or when.
> 
> I am only human too At some point, I won't live with an active threat of divorce hanging over me. I don't blackmail well. I fully understand that sometimes you can't go up until you reach the bottom, and you don't reach the bottom until you stop digging.
> 
> Perhaps I should have found some kind of Stop a divorce thread. I don't know what my topic is. I just don't have anyone to bounce these thoughts off of. I have only told a very few people because I don't want to do any further damage. The few people I have told are very well aware of my ugly side and so won't judge my husband harshly.
> 
> Magnesium, I'm sure I am frustrating. I won't fault you if you want to divorce from this thread. And I do thank you for your input and advice. This experience has been very powerful for me. I have tried to absorb all of it. Wisdom of crowds and all.


Ha, you're actually one the least frustrating here! I've enjoyed reading your insights and I think you've really thought this out from many angles. I asked why you're here for clarification and I appreciate that you've been able to articulate yourself so well, especially considering the state of things.

If you're not ready to divorce and he is not ready to divorce, I see no reason to actually FILE for divorce. You're BOTH getting something out of the current set-up. 

As far as next steps, I would suggest that you do find a reputable divorce attorney with whom you can consult about protecting your assets (current and future) who can presumably give you a better idea of what you could expect from different scenarios. You could contact your local bar association for a list of divorce attorneys and make appointments with as many as are willing to offer the initial consultation for free. Follow up with research on each attorney you liked to see if they've had bar complaints.

I would also suggest some individual counseling - not because I think you're a mess and need help desperately, but because I think it helps to have an independent person with some sort of training and skill to bounce ideas off of and from whom you can get some honest support and guidance going forward. 

I do think your husband is self-absorbed and that, at least from this side, it appears he is setting up his pins to fall in his favor when he decides to roll the ball. While I think there is nothing wrong with you taking the time you need to get YOUR pins set up - quietly - I would caution you to see past your desire that this is all going to blow over. I would really hate for you to feel blindsided, especially since he has basically given you the blueprint for the future HE is building for HIMSELF. Build your own future, not just financially but emotionally. You may be surprised if in another year, after much work on your own, you decide you don't want him. 

Of course, there is always the possibility that this is a mid-life crisis for him and the changes you both make now and the work you do on and for yourselves inadvertently becomes the cure for a previously unhappy marriage. 

I really do think you've got a lot on your side and going for you in this situation. I don't know that I would walk right out the door based on what you've told us here. I think that's rather rash and not entirely wise. What you're doing - biding your time - is wise and you would be wiser to use that time even more wisely by learning from some professionals what to expect.

I am really pulling for you.


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## Herschel

There are a few things at play here. First, you had admitted you weren't a great wife. Ok, lesson learned, you are working on yourself. That has very little impact on what has happened with him in the past or where you are headed in the future.

What is he thinking and what is he doing? And what can/should you do about it?

He is looking until your youngest is leaving for college. Ok. Does he want to not break up the household til then? Maybe. Is he gay and he can get his buttsex on the side while hanging with you? Sure. Is he straight and banging another woman who is likely married but may not want to leave her relationship? Possibly. All viable options and none of them should matter to you.

The best case scenario is that he has been fed up with 25 years of sub-par marriage and is willing to wait it out until the youngest is gone to finally get out on his own. How can anything you do change that? Can you woo him back? 25 years are working against you. And what then? Let's say you convince him? Then what? The first time you get mad at something, e is like, **** this, I'm out? Is this how you want to live your golden years? Always wondering how committed your husband is? The best case scenario, which seems really like a long shot to begin with, sounds awful. 

He knows the situation. He knows that he has put you in a tenuous spot. He knows that if you aren't ok living for 3 years like this and you want out, he can put some of the blame on you. This isn't even malicious, it's just human nature in these type of situations. Nobody wants to e the bad guy. 

Your best bet is to leave. Find a lawyer, take what is rightfully yours, get your **** together, focus on yourself, and move forward in your life. It is scary as anything, but honestly, it has got to be better than a) how you feel now b) how you will feel if you happen to convince him to stay and c) better than how you have felt that had created all of these awful feelings to be the "bad" wife as you seem to describe it. Leave, become a better you and focus on your future. You will be much happier.


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## Thor

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> I don't know how to find a "good attorney". My mother is 85 and I stand to inherit a good deal of money. I have wondered if his three year plan factors that in. I told my mother of his intentions, and asked her to help me protect that money. I suggested after the move and things settle down, we go to her financial adviser to learn what if anything I can do. I don't really know how to get a divorce.


OK, please read and understand what I write here.

Your inheritance may or may not be a marital asset once your mother passes and you get it. It depends on your state. As a generalization, most likely (but not definitely), if you keep everything in just your name and never mix it in any way with family finances, it remains yours alone. For example, if you keep it in a separate bank account in only your name, and you never use it to pay for a house payment, car, groceries, or kids' clothing. However, your location may consider it joint assets even if you keep it separated.

If your mother passes tomorrow, keep your inheritance completely separated to hopefully shield it.

However if she survives past tomorrow there are significant steps you can and must take. First, if your mom's assets are significant, let's say more than $50k or $100k, she needs to talk to a top notch estate attorney who specializes in trusts. It cost me about $1500 to have my trust created by a good attorney. *Do not go cheap* on this!!! If her estate is relatively small it may not be worth spending the money to do a complicated trust, though I would still spend the $200 to do a consult with an estate atty to see if they can do less expensive trust which by itself makes things much simpler when a person passes. 

A trust is like a corporation in that it is a legal entity. Your mom would create the trust *then she must take the steps to put her assets into the trust*. So she would title her car over to the trust. She retitles her house. She gets the bank to change the name on her accounts. She changes the beneficiary of her 401K, all other retirement accounts, her pension, and life insurance over to be the trust. She probably needs a *Pour-over Will*, which is a simple will saying anything not in the trust is to go to the trust. This is a safety net. Getting things titled over to the trust is critical. It isn't too complicated but it takes time to identify all the accounts and assets and then to get the name changed over. Many people thus undermine the ability of the trust by not following through. (My family lost out on a very very sizable estate when the second wife of my relative redirected everything to her family. This was possible because he had never retitled the assets to the trust, even though he had the trust properly created by a good attorney).

The Trust now owns all the assets, not your mom. But, your mom is Trustee who controls the trust and thus all the assets. The Trust says how the assets will be handled, and your mom is the one who had the trust made so she can have it say whatever she wants. Typically it says the assets are for the full use of the beneficiary (your mom) while alive. So your mom does have full control of her assets while she is alive. When she passes, the new Trustee (probably you) administers the trust, following all of the instructions written in the trust. You can't do something different, and nobody can force a change. Thus your H can't get access to any of the assets in the trust if the trust says he cannot. This is how the trust is better than a will, because a will simply gives ownership over to the heir. What happens after the heir owns it is where your risk is. With a trust, the Trust continues to own the assets after the person passes, and the assets must be handled according to what the Trust says.

All of this is how it works here. It is probably similar where you are, but she needs a good attorney who can get it right and who can cover all the unique details. For example, there may be a way to specifically exclude your H from access in the event you become declared incompetent. Imagine a car accident which leaves you brain damaged and your H gets you declared legally mentally incompetent. You may not want your H to have access to the money. Perhaps you would want it held in the trust for your children until they reach age 25. These are the kinds of details a good estate attorney will get covered so it is air-tight where you live.

You need to discuss with your own attorney all of these issues as well as preparing for D. The lawyer should give you some guidance on how to configure your own finances to protect them. For example having your paycheck put into your own account under your own name. Perhaps having a legal separation document signed by you and your H today which sets the terms of your finances. That would become the terms in a divorce unless there were some big change before the divorce was filed.

Divorce is actually not that hard to do, even though it can seem overwhelming. Basically you will list all the assets and all the debts you both have. Then you split them up between you. If you agree, there is no battle in court. If you disagree, you will likely pay lawyers to argue until you both do agree. Rarely does the court end up deciding for you.

Alimony may or may not be a factor where you live. Usually the state law gives good guidance to the court on how to structure it. Is it limited in time or permanent? How is the $ amount calculated? Your lawyer can likely give you a good idea how it would look in your case.

Child support will be pretty strictly defined by state law. Does it go to only 18 or does it extend through college? How is it calculated? What about health insurance? Again, an atty can give you a good idea how this works where you are.

Most atty's will give a free 30 minute consultation. This is how they get new customers. They will answer your questions so you will know how things usually work out in your state and town. If you have friends who are divorced, ask them if they liked their atty. Or, just go see several for their free consultation to see who you like.

Chances are things go fairly smoothly through most of the process, and you end up somewhere in the normal arena as far as what the factors are and what the outcome will be. While this is all new to you, it is pretty normal for your attorney! They should guide you through the process.

You can DIY the divorce, but you need to at least consult with an atty to be sure you have things covered properly. Using mediation and then having an uncontested divorce is the ideal path, but you need to have the backup of an atty at least behind the scenes to make sure you're not messing anything up.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Since my husband put everything we had into his business, our finances are not too complicated. But my father worked hard his entire life, knew he would die of cancer, and arranged my mother's finances impressively well. He died ages ago, and I don't believe he set up a trust, just investment accounts with instructions on his investment formula's etc.

Thank you for the advice on getting it moved to prepare for inheritance. Just like divorce, no one wants to think about death but after helping my father die, we have hardened to it's reality. Having her estate sorted out will make it easier for my siblings and I to understand it when the time comes to receive it. It's not Bezo's but it's enough to take a lot of fear away.

It has not been lost on me that my life is set up to completely vaporize...my children will leave home, my mother (remaining parent) will likely pass, and my husband will leave me, all within a few years of each other...in all likelihood.


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## Thor

Now as far as your marriage is concerned. I am very pro-marriage, and I hope your marriage can be turned around and become something you both enjoy and value. That's my disclaimer.

I think there is a legitimate concern for how teens will react to a divorce, and so it is a legitimate reason to postpone divorce. Your H may be making a logical choice to wait for 3 years to divorce. So, he may not be seriously considering keeping the marriage. His telling you about the timeline may not have been him asking you to change or work on the marriage.

Also, absent any other suspicions on your part I don't think it means there is likely an affair.

When my W did certain things when we were married, the last thing I wanted was to be near her. Many nights I slept on the couch. I had learned she was using sex as a tool to manipulate me over the years, so I had was leery of her showing any interest in sex with me during the last few years of our marriage. I can see how your H may have reached the point of detachment and self-protection where he no longer desires sex with you and prefers his own space.

This doesn't mean things are not fixable, but I wouldn't wait too long if I were you. Divorce is not ideal but it isn't the end of the world either! You will have a good life after divorce even though it will be different. Your value on the market does go down with age, and from a cold practical standpoint the longer you wait to D the more of a factor your age will be. I'm in my mid-late 50's and there are not many attractive candidates out there in my age group, and I am not desirable due to my age to younger women that are attractive to me. Just to be blunt about it, age is a big factor in a woman's attractiveness especially over 50. To me, the percent of women over 50 who are physically attractive is much lower than the percent of women under 50. We can draw similar lines really at any age, where over 40 will be less attractive than 30.

The point being really that you should be moderately selfish, and without guilt! If you're 45 now, you have strong dating potential. If you wait 3 years to file divorce, then wait a year before you feel ready to date again, you're right on the cusp of 50. Not that 50 is the kiss of death, but it is a reality you lose points as a woman in the dating world for every year older you get.

So, here's my advice if you were my sister. Work on making yourself the best you can, and do it for yourself. Improve your health via better eating, get exercise, get good sleep. Make sure you have your own time and your own activities. Make yourself happy! Simultaneously see if you can get your H back into the marriage. Try to get him to MC. I would make an appointment at a time you know he is available, then tell him about it it. Tell him you are going and that you hope he will come along too. If he does, make sure he is making a genuine effort in MC. Read the books Ele Girl recommended.

I think you should have a time line of 6 months when he should be showing strong effort and there is real improvement. If so, add another 6 months. But the improvements do need to be real and significant. If he is not making the effort, or if the improvements just aren't there, I think you should seriously consider D. You don't owe him anything at this point! He has told you he is leaving you. Your obligation would be to your self and your kids only. As far as the kids, they will deal with D ok if they are otherwise doing ok.


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## Thor

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> It has not been lost on me that my life is set up to completely vaporize...my children will leave home, my mother (remaining parent) will likely pass, and my husband will leave me, all within a few years of each other...in all likelihood.


Your stress is understandable given the circumstances.

If it is any help, my experience watching my kids go to college and then beyond has been fun and rewarding. I actually spend more time with them now they are out of college than when they were in high school. Sure I saw them daily in high school, but I was stupid old Dad back then who they didn't want to be seen with! They became adults in college, and our relationships improved a lot. Watching them become responsible adults is rewarding.

I would suggest rather than fearing the future you look at it as change with many positives. Your kids especially, and then the grandkids later on, will be big positives for you. You will date some great men (and a few duds most likely!). I was married 30+ years, so dating was a bit scary to think about but I have met some great people and had a lot of fun. If you can't have a wonderful marriage with your H through your old age, then that option is not real. But you do have the opportunity to meet some great people and do things you wouldn't have done otherwise. Even in a non-dating way you will meet people and do things which you wouldn't do if married.


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## 3Xnocharm

@GusPolinski... thoughts?


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## Magnesium

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> It has not been lost on me that my life is set up to completely vaporize...my children will leave home, my mother (remaining parent) will likely pass, and my husband will leave me, all within a few years of each other...in all likelihood.


None of us knows what is coming down the pike for us. None of us. You have, at the very least, an opportunity to prepare for some scenarios and quite a few resources to help you cope. You never know what will happen, but you've been given a few gems to work with.


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## Pleaseineedhelp

Thank you for your kinds words of encouragement. 

I have a "Ladies who Lunch" set friends whom I have entrusted with my news. We are all in our mid 50's, and while the bloom may be off our rose, dried arrangements can still be beautiful! Anyway one of us is single and she has been prepping me for dating.

One lady was having a sad event of her own and I shared a bit of my pain. I told her not to worry about us because I had had an elderly aunt in Florida and I have seen our future and it looked like a lot of fun. I theorized that in all likelihood our men would die before we reached old age anyway and we will be growing old together divorced or not, and have boatloads of fun.

So, while you men may feel like you have the advantage in youth, we women have the advantage in elder years. I am looking forward to a great time being completely inappropriate! Married or not.


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## GusPolinski

3Xnocharm said:


> @GusPolinski... thoughts?


Gimme the tl;dr version.


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## penny james

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Last Feb after 25 years together, two teens, and a huge arguement, my husband said he is tired of marriage, doesn't want the responsibiity of it, doesn't think he's ever been happy, thinks we married too young (mid 20s), thinks we married the wrong people, believes he has intimacy issues, doesn't find me attractive like he once did, doesn't want to have sex anymore, and laid out his plan to divorce after the youngest is out of high school. He said he loves me and wants to stay friends, live as roommates until the time comes, he will help me through the adjustments, he will provide for me after the divorce, and wants to stay close, taking trips together and be best friends after the divorce.
> 
> After a night of crying and pleading, I realized my role in this. I had been a difficult wife, I made demands on his time and attention, I was insulting, I controlled our sexlife, I was a stay at home mom, and did most of the childrearing, I was angry much of the time, I was unhappy too.
> 
> I don't want a divorce, I want a happy marriage. I have made tremendous progress over these past 10 months, changing back to my old self, no longer an agry woman, I don't ask much of him on the weekends. He travels for work and is away most Tues-weds returning Thursdays.
> 
> HE wanted the family to move from our home of 20 years to a new location,said he needed a change, so we did. He chose the house and I did most of the move not pressuring him at all. In these past 10 months, I never spoke of his announcement, just focused on being a better person. We moved, we are knder to each other, we go out on dates more, we seldom argue, we cuddle more, still no sex (over 12 months now), but the other weekend, I asked him about his intentions. He says they haven't changed. He didn't offer a time line, said he has no plans, but doesn't see us growing old together.
> 
> I see positive changes in our relationship and was hoping he would say he is happier and intends to stay. He hugs me sometimes for no reason, I just got a new hairstyle, which he has complimented me on twice in three days. He complimented me on my perfume yesterday. He's slowly letting me touch him more intimately, where once he would be curled up on the edge of the bed, he now lets me wrap myself around him, but nothing even resembling sexual contact. My other male friends say I'm attractive and can't imaging why my husband doesn't want to have sex with me.
> 
> I don't know what my next steps should be. How long can I expect this to last? He doesn't want to go to counseling. We can't really afford it anyway, insurance doesn't cover it. He said he's been thinking of divorce for years, and made his desicion last summer so 18 months ago. He said he hadn't intended to tell me, it just came out. He said he snapped from the stress of the argument.
> 
> I'm doing what I can to improve myself. I have found full time work, I have a new hairstyle, I go out with my friends more, I have gained control of my temper. I feel I am becoming a better person. He says he's noticed, and while he didn't like the fighting, now I seem like a stepford wife and he kind of misses the old me. I can't win.


Hi how are you my husband has ago at me all the time and calls me names and verbal abuse me should I leave him


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## farsidejunky

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Thank you Oldshirt. Yes, I can confirm prior threats, but they were from me, in the heat of battle, years ago. This comes out of no where from him.
> 
> I am currently going down two paths. One path of self improvement. After being let go in 2008, he looked for work for nearly 1 year. He then formed his own Internet business. He would ask for my help in research etc, then I helped in customer service and marketing areas. It was becoming clear to me the business was not taking off. It was draining us of money. He would not acknowledge it. It was the cause of tremendous stress and unpleasantness. Then I discovered he had emptied all of our savings accounts. I took him outside and calmly ran through the numbers with him and we determined we had 30-45 days until we reached zero. I could see the shock in his face, though I can't understand how he didn't see the accounts reducing or put it together what that meant.
> 
> He got some money from his parents and found work to bring in some income. It wasn't enough to cover our expenses, it was simply emergency income. He balked at finding better more appropriate work, but he did. He landed a job at his old level and income and we were on the road to financial recovery.
> 
> He didn't want to close his Internet Business and so I agreed to work it in the day and he would work a couple of hours at night after his job. I did my part, but he didn't do his. I would alert him of issues he needed to address and he would say he couldn't and I had to do it. I would tell him I didn't have the skills and we didn't have the money to pay someone, and he would get frustrated with me. I guess he thought I should try my best or get the skill. For the past two years, I have been asking him to shut it down. I don't know how to shut it down. He doesn't want to. He wants to sell it. I tell him to sell it then. It's costing us $800/month. I have cut back the expenses that I can with it.
> 
> I could be in some kind of denial, but I will go to my grave believing this is what destroyed my marriage.
> 
> So since his announcement, I have been working to remove myself from his business, calm myself, I have recognized his stress levels from his job and how I make that worse on weekends by nagging him on things that need doing.
> 
> He told me in February, and I had been requesting to move. Our home was very old (100+) and I couldn't do the maintenance necessary and I thought if we had a newer home, I could manage things better and not rely on him as much. When he said he wanted the divorce I immediately stopped thoughts of moving. We lived near my mom, and I thought if he leaves, the children and I will be happier in our familiar home near my mom. He insisted we move. He said he needed the change. He went house hunting with me, and he picked out this house. I used to be in banking so I helped organize the finances and secured the mortgage. I also organized the move. He didn't want to pay movers, so I did most of the move using my minivan, making three trips a day between the houses. For a couple of weeks I had some help from a visiting cousin of his, and we rented a moving van which irritated my husband. I didn't take the bait and make a fight. I was just shocked that he said anything. It was $150. It then fell to me to prepare the old home for showings etc. I painted the interior and cleaned it thoroughly washing the interior woodwork and nooks and crannies and chose the furniture to stay behind for staging etc. The house sold immediately for a great price.
> 
> As these events played out, I understood they were check-offs on the list of necessary steps to divorce. I told my friends I felt like I was digging my own grave - and doing a great job!
> 
> As I work to improve myself and my role in the marriage, I am also preparing for divorce to the extent I know how to. I have opened my own bank account (not that it matters in this state it's a marital property state). Over the summer while I was moving us, I was also looking for work and applying for jobs. I didn't want just any job, I wanted one that would provide growth, a career, and the ability to move around and transfer. It took awhile but I will start such a job next week.
> 
> I don't know how to find a "good attorney". My mother is 85 and I stand to inherit a good deal of money. I have wondered if his three year plan factors that in. I told my mother of his intentions, and asked her to help me protect that money. I suggested after the move and things settle down, we go to her financial adviser to learn what if anything I can do. I don't really know how to get a divorce.
> 
> So it seems to me phase one of getting a divorce is completed. And I am facing phase two. I assume that entails getting an attorney and I don't know what...how long does it take? How does it play out? Am I making the divorce happen?
> 
> I feel a bit conflicted that he gets to jet off to New York while I successfully move us and divorce us. The events in combination I don't want. BUT it's in my best interest to sell our old home for as much as possible and save as much money as possible, so I am sucking it up and doing my best, before you all start with the doormat reactions again.
> 
> So I get stuck on this three years part. Since February we have gotten along well. Discussions of his business are calm. We had a flare-up a few weekends ago, but I stayed calm reminding him that I am out, have been asking out for a couple of years now. But I ended up writing a financial report for him to submit anyway that was a year overdue and I believe he was in jeopardy of legal action had it not been done. He very well may still get in trouble. He asked this weekend if I had heard any reaction to the report.
> 
> Over the course of our 25 year relationship, I would say our arguments were on the normal side of things: Loading and unloading the dishwasher was a common one. He is European and drives like a Italian taxi driver, so I hated when he drove. He speeds and I guess enjoys the sensation of a car out of control. We would have terrible fights over that. We would arrive to our destination with me in tears afraid for my life. I would accuse him of being insensitive to my comfort and he would counter that I was controlling. It took awhile, but I finally figured out I should do all of the together driving since I hated his driving so much and it as the cause of so much anger between us.
> 
> I don't know about the sex part. I don't know what other people are like. To the extent that I controlled it, I suppose technically I did. In the early years I complained that it was always me who initiated things. We both had big jobs and traveled a lot...but we worked for the same company and knew the same people and enjoyed a lot of love and I'm sure if either of us strayed the other would have been told by the company grapevine.
> 
> I noticed at some point years ago that he only initiated after he pissed me off or knew I was otherwise unlikely to want..too tired, a little sick, whatever. So I would turn him down and be irritated with him. Our sex life seemed normal enough. It wasn't like college, but felt more like dry spells than a red flag. He never ever complained about it. I would want to talk about wanting him to initiate more etc. When I would ask him if there was a problem he would say no, his desires just come and go kind of thing. After awhile I decided if he had been in an accident and couldn't have sex, I wouldn't leave him, so I would accept our low levels of sexual activity as part of the marriage.
> 
> I don't know what other insight I can provide. He was diagnosed with ADD a number of years ago. After the children came along, I really noticed his inability to complete things. When I was heavily pregnant, and he was scheduled for a flight that evening, he showed up in a tool belt, and I asked what was happening. He announced he was going to rebuild the basement stairs for me since they were unstable and I was pregnant. That turned into an argument that got pretty heated because he only had 4 hours until he had to leave for the airport and I was certain it would take longer to tear down and rebuild a flight of stairs. That was 17 years ago now. But we had a number of those kinds of arguments while I tried to stop him or start him or keep him focused. Because of the fighting over what I thought were ridiculous things, our marriage suffered. I thought he was doing these things on purpose to piss me off and someone suggested to me he might have add and we should get him tested...so we did and he did. I told him I see a big difference in someone with ADD and an ass, so we found calm again in the marriage.
> 
> I don't think I am in denial, I don't feel angry, I feel sad and hopeful. We have weathered many storms over the years. I go back and forth. What happens if we divorce now? Everyone moves out of this house? The kids have to shuttle between two household? I struggle to pay bills?
> 
> I love my husband. We are getting along as well as ever. He calls and texts me while he's away. I can see he is trying to be better with me. He used to only take me to the movies once a year for my birthday...sometimes. We almost never went out to dinner, partially because of money but he often said because I cook better than a restaurant. We cuddle on the sofa more, our weekends are more stress free. Life is pretty good these days. When I asked him about it 2 weeks ago, he definitely down played it, but didn't rescind it either. He said he doesn't understand why people get worked up over future events. No one knows what will happen between now and then. I was thinking that my heart will explode or I will suffocate from not being able to breath on my bad days.
> 
> Then I think about the women I know whose husbands have been diagnosed with cancer or other fatal diseases. Those women aren't racing to divorce. Is my situation really different on a day to day basis? In a sense I've been given a marriage life expectancy of three years. I feel like I should use that time to find a cure. Am I really worse off if I wait until he pulls the trigger?
> 
> I kind of get the Where's my Pride questions. But my F-you response, which is usually quite healthy, just isn't kicking in. I have asked him if he's having an affair, if he's having a gay affair, why he wants to leave and why in three years, and he assures me he isn't having an affair, he just wants out of the struggle of marriage, and the three years is a nod to our children. He doesn't want to disrupt their childhood and schooling by introducing the upheaval. It seems reasonable to me.
> 
> If I forced the divorce and left, what does that get me in actuality? I become free to date? If he wants to divorce me, doesn't that free me up now? He's gone in the week, if I meet someone (maybe through my new job?) who wants to get to know me better, can't I have coffee with them and see where it goes now? I can tell them my situation. It doesn't seem like it should be cheating. If it progresses to a relationship, I can then pull the trigger. I also have the option available to me if and when I benefit from it.
> 
> I am not in an unkind household. We are getting along very well. I don't feel compelled to walk away. It seems my day to day existence would only deteriorate.
> 
> What am I not seeing that everyone else is so worked up over? Am I being recommended to prepare emotionally? Financially? How do I prepare financially? It's a marital property state. I have access to the accounts. I see his w-2s and can compare income to deposits and discover if he's hiding money. The kids are teenage girls, nobody wants to take them from me.
> 
> I just don't have angry feelings. I don't want to be angry anymore. It seems like "the divorce" is just a substitute for his business if I start throwing it around as the reason I should be cold and distant from him.
> 
> Perhaps we've both snapped, he out of love for me and me out of anger at him. I'm tire of feeling angry and I'm tired of fighting. I'm tired of worrying about his next step beit with his business and our finances, or his divorce plans. I am enjoying focusing on just me, and sometimes the girls. What the hell do I care now if he gets irritated that I am spending money on hairstyles and makeup and clothes, going away for the weekends with my friends? The threat of divorce is very liberating.
> 
> The move, which I orchestrated, got our finances in order and I reviewed them and they are finally healthy again, so that was a huge benefit of his insistence on moving. The only real thing I have to complain about is the divorce and I am pretty sure doing that will only bring it about faster and I want to stay married to this man. He is a lot of wonderful things. There are a lot of people who don't love me, he shouldn't be judged here because of that. I can tell many of you don't love me either!
> 
> I feel like I just want to float, pour a drink, and see where this all goes. I don't really want to fight or control it, I have no power here. I feel that I can handle whatever comes my way...unless you all know something I don't.


Yes, you were wretched in portions of your marriage.

But your husband is an *******.


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## MEM2020

Pin,

I think that’s right. Physical contact is good for us humans. And touch sometimes accomplishes what words cannot. 




Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Thank you Handy. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and experience. The three years has stumped me. Clearly I could take him at face value and he could be so calculating to consider the children and alimony etc, but he doesn't strike me like that. He told me again he expects me to live in this beautiful home. When I scoffed that I will never be able to afford it, he reassured me he will provide for me as always. It seems a naive gesture.
> 
> I go back and forth on how I want to handle this news. When I feel strong, I want to ride it out and see where it goes, like it's some movie and I want to see how it ends...but often the pain in my chest is so great I can hardly breathe and I just want it to stop. Those days take all my strength not to pull the plug myself.
> 
> Some days I think "Screw the Bastard" and enjoy the company of my friends and imagine the fun I will have when I am free. Other days I scrutinize his every expression and hint of a thought to see if there is a sign he may love me like he once did.
> 
> It broke my own heart to not tell him about applying for my new job. Then I had three interviews that I kept secret from him. I had hoped to be able to start the job and see how long I could go until he asked about my whereabouts and I would tell him I was working. He was here when the offer letter arrived and I started crying because I couldn't believe he was no longer my best friend. He was enemy #1 trying to destroy my family. He saw me crying and asked about it and I just sobbed like a baby telling him I had a job. This lead to my asking about his current intentions which are still to leave... eventually.
> 
> I know I hurt him in our marriage. God knows I tried! But it was a pretty fair fight. I took a number of blows too. Not accepting his offers to cuddle and reminding him he plans to divorce me and so doesn't deserve my cuddles feels like how we behaved towards each other last year. I promised myself I would never be like that again. If he asks to cuddle-up to watch TV and I have nothing better going on, I intend to get me some snuggles. It feels good and I very much need some loving these days. He might be getting something for nothing, but I am too.
> 
> I am sorry to hear of your life. I know how lonely it feels. The surprising thing is my husband would say the same things about me as you say about your wife, and I would think he couldn't be more wrong about me. I didn't feel negative in the way he described. I often felt that he wouldn't let me give my real opinion without taking it personally. It felt like I wasn't allowed to not like something without him pointing out how negative I was. But you know what? Sometimes a chair just isn't comfortable or a movie sucks! I never meant that he sucked for suggesting the movie. A big difference. But perhaps too late for me now.


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## pragmaticGoddess

penny james said:


> Pleaseineedhelp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last Feb after 25 years together, two teens, and a huge arguement, my husband said he is tired of marriage, doesn't want the responsibiity of it, doesn't think he's ever been happy, thinks we married too young (mid 20s), thinks we married the wrong people, believes he has intimacy issues, doesn't find me attractive like he once did, doesn't want to have sex anymore, and laid out his plan to divorce after the youngest is out of high school. He said he loves me and wants to stay friends, live as roommates until the time comes, he will help me through the adjustments, he will provide for me after the divorce, and wants to stay close, taking trips together and be best friends after the divorce.
> 
> After a night of crying and pleading, I realized my role in this. I had been a difficult wife, I made demands on his time and attention, I was insulting, I controlled our sexlife, I was a stay at home mom, and did most of the childrearing, I was angry much of the time, I was unhappy too.
> 
> I don't want a divorce, I want a happy marriage. I have made tremendous progress over these past 10 months, changing back to my old self, no longer an agry woman, I don't ask much of him on the weekends. He travels for work and is away most Tues-weds returning Thursdays.
> 
> HE wanted the family to move from our home of 20 years to a new location,said he needed a change, so we did. He chose the house and I did most of the move not pressuring him at all. In these past 10 months, I never spoke of his announcement, just focused on being a better person. We moved, we are knder to each other, we go out on dates more, we seldom argue, we cuddle more, still no sex (over 12 months now), but the other weekend, I asked him about his intentions. He says they haven't changed. He didn't offer a time line, said he has no plans, but doesn't see us growing old together.
> 
> I see positive changes in our relationship and was hoping he would say he is happier and intends to stay. He hugs me sometimes for no reason, I just got a new hairstyle, which he has complimented me on twice in three days. He complimented me on my perfume yesterday. He's slowly letting me touch him more intimately, where once he would be curled up on the edge of the bed, he now lets me wrap myself around him, but nothing even resembling sexual contact. My other male friends say I'm attractive and can't imaging why my husband doesn't want to have sex with me.
> 
> I don't know what my next steps should be. How long can I expect this to last? He doesn't want to go to counseling. We can't really afford it anyway, insurance doesn't cover it. He said he's been thinking of divorce for years, and made his desicion last summer so 18 months ago. He said he hadn't intended to tell me, it just came out. He said he snapped from the stress of the argument.
> 
> I'm doing what I can to improve myself. I have found full time work, I have a new hairstyle, I go out with my friends more, I have gained control of my temper. I feel I am becoming a better person. He says he's noticed, and while he didn't like the fighting, now I seem like a stepford wife and he kind of misses the old me. I can't win.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi how are you my husband has ago at me all the time and calls me names and verbal abuse me should I leave him
Click to expand...

Hi @penny james you could start a thread with that question if you’re wondering.


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## MartinBeck

OP -
I would suggest the next time he starts to cuddle, that you escalate and directly reach into his pants and initiate sex.

If he pushes back, you have an answer. Then I suggest you have a conversation with your husband where you state that you want to be sexually active again - and that you’d strongly prefer it to be with him. 

If he turns you down for sex, Is he expecting you to be celibate for the next three years? Ask him how he would feel about you starting to date some one, given that he’s leaving you.


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## Thor

MartinBeck said:


> OP -
> I would suggest the next time he starts to cuddle, that you escalate and directly reach into his pants and initiate sex.
> 
> If he pushes back, you have an answer. Then I suggest you have a conversation with your husband where you state that you want to be sexually active again - *and that you’d strongly prefer it to be with him*.
> 
> If he turns you down for sex, Is he expecting you to be celibate for the next three years? Ask him how he would feel about you starting to date some one, given that he’s leaving you.


Pretty much exactly the advice given to men who have a wife who consistently refuses sex. The point is the spouse has a general obligation to provide sex. It is one of the basic pillars of a marriage. We actually make a verbal contract in the wedding vows "To HAVE", which means sex!

It is grossly unfair for a person to expect celibacy from their spouse so that they can have some selfish need/desire met. In this case, his selfish desire is to keep the trappings of a marriage and family but not have the obligations of the physical or emotional intimacy. He therefore cedes his right to exclusive claim to your sex. He's broken the marriage contract.

While I don't endorse cheating, I think openly bringing up that you have the right to expect sexual fulfillment in your life is powerful. I think in most cases D is a much better path than actually opening the marriage, because you're headed to D anyhow. Might as well not burn any more of your days on this planet uselessly and painfully staying in a bad marriage.


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## 3Xnocharm

GusPolinski said:


> Gimme the tl;dr version.


 @GusPolinski... Wants divorce in three years, stay put in the house and be buddies with STBXW, travels for work, no sex, claims he will take care of her after the divorce... I seem to be the only one convinced there is another woman...


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## Zanne

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> Should I be encouraged that he isn't filing for divorce right away? Should I be encouraged that there is kindness and date nights etc? If the sex were back, it would feel like a good marriage. I was sad and a bit surprised to hear he still doesn't see us growing old togeher, but encouraged that he didn't give a timeline.


I definitely think there could be an OW, and this is why: he has all the opportunity to cheat since he travels for work, he has pulled away from you and appears to have no desire to reconcile, and he hasn't changed his mind about the divorce. You may have asked him directly if he has had or is having an affair, but do you really think he is going to answer honestly? He is KEEPING THE PEACE for the sake of your teenage children and it's the same reason why he is doing date nights, etc., with you.

This is my hunch based on my own experience as the OW in someone else's marriage and that marriage was very much similar to yours. He tried very hard to keep the peace until his youngest daughter graduated from high school. That was his goal and he separated shortly thereafter. His decision was made many months prior to meeting me and it was after years of abuse and a lackluster sex life. When his wife realized he was pulling away, she put in a great deal of effort to change her ways, but it was too little, too late. He wasn't perfect either and surely played a part in the downfall of their marriage, too.

Anyway, your husband has probably made up his mind and he's hoping you will let him off easy and he will still look like a nice guy who put up with your crap for years. The truth is likely somewhere in between and I bet there's someone else already lined up to take your place. And don't bother asking him if this is true.

A question for you, I'm wondering if your husband likes to avoid conflict?


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## Not

OP's husband sounds a lot like me. I withdrew for years and years, we haven't had sex in seven years. No cheating on either side. Planned to stay till the kids were older. We both knew it was coming. The behavior killed anything I felt for him. 

If OP's husband is serious I don't think he's going to make it for three years.


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## Cynthia

Pleaseineedhelp said:


> I feel like this second step is really the divorcing step. Finding an attorney, (I don't know how to determine a good one), separating the money, selling the new house, these are steps I can envision. They seem pretty permanent to me.


Personally I think you are doing fine. You've gotten some excellent advice regarding finances and the inheritance you will receive from your mother.

My recommendation is that you buy a book or two on divorce in your state and read it thoroughly. Understand what your rights and responsibilities are, including whether or not your inheritance will be included as community property. I doubt it will, but you need to find that out. It could factor into your decision making regarding whether or not you divorce.

If you can find such a book on Kindle, that would be best. It's better that your husband doesn't see you reading them.

Once you fully understand the divorce process in your state, you can begin to interview attorneys. Due to already understanding how it all works, you will be able to tell if you have a good attorney or an attorney who is going to try to scam you and try to drag out the process. If your finances are simple, you may be able to do the divorce yourself and save yourself a ton of money.

You are wise to get all your finances in order, including keeping copies of all documents in a separate location.

Once you understand all that and have prepared legally and financially for divorce, you can continue along with your plan to try to work through things with your husband or you can decide you've had enough limbo and move on.

Does you new job include health coverage that also covers counseling? If so, that may be a good thing to start into asap at least for yourself.


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