# Divorce, over the precipice



## AvoidDivorce (Jun 10, 2015)

I had hoped to save my marriage and keep my family intact (hence the now ironic username). Unfortunately, this was not to be. 

Some of you may have read my previous stories where I confessed to hurting my partner deeply. I also shared the trauma that I endured when she made similar choices to have her needs met outside our marriage prior to my acts being disclosed. Looking back, a marriage so mortally wounded was beyond saving. Still, it is some comfort knowing that we struggled mightily in hopes of saving it. That comforts me. It will help me to answer my children's questions now, and later in life. It will help me when I ask myself late at night, "What if we would have tried harder?". We did all we could do.

Until a few weeks ago I remained committed to reconciliation. That was until my stbx made some choices that required me to accept reality:

*She heaped (and continues to heap) verbal abuse on me at level ten. I ignore, but it adds up.
*She hired an attorney and paid thousands in retainer fees.
*She filed for divorce.
*She put up multiple dating profiles online.
*She left our house one night and went on a date with a man she met online.

At that point the direction of events was undeniable. I was way behind in what will now become by nature an adversarial conflict. I took steps to remedy that right away. Unfortunately, all the open access to my life that I had provided was now being used against me. All the letters of apology I'd written for our marriage counseling have been given to her lawyer. I shut down the access, got my own attorney, and we are formulating a response to her petition. A petition that seeks WELL beyond an equitable distribution of our assets.

What followed was a very odd situation. My stbx was shocked at the withdrawal of my emotional support. I was shocked that she would expect emotional support from someone she had decided to divorce. It was almost as though she expected to be totally absolved of any abusive act, no matter how offensive. I was supposed to be this spineless jellyfish that just took it and kept working on our marriage, even as she took steps to end it and cripple me emotionally & financially.

I don't think she understood that her actions changed my desire to continue the marriage. I have realized that though my journey has led to a great deal of self-realization, she has had little. Whereas my work has been focused on my role in our failed relationship, hers is all focused on coping with what has been "done to her". She has assumed the role of pure victim. In that role I am the soulless wayward husband, and she is the blameless betrayed wife. In angry moments, she tells me that I deserved her infidelity, and that she bears no guilt for it. Her patterns are the same. She claims I am the same. I disagree, but if that is true we should move on.

Now begins the truly hard part. Today there is a party with her family and my children. I am not welcome. Her family and particularly her mom have always been a big part of our lives. Her mom promised that no matter what, that would not change. Well, I shouldn't have been so naive. Of course it will! Tomorrow is my birthday, my stbx and her family will ignore it. My kids will be here with my family. I am buying my own cake, but you know what? It will be EXACTLY what I want! :laugh:

We are still under the same roof but in separate rooms as the divorce moves forward. My stbx is pressuring me to move out, but I have good counsel and will not. Whenever she sees me act in my own self interest, she gets hurt and upset. She expects me to fold. "If you were any kind of man you would just give me everything I want and just leave us!". I can only listen to statements like that and discount them as ludicrous. 

So, advice? I am particularly interested in hearing from folks that hoped to be fair and calm, but had to contend with an angry stbx intent on escalating conflict. How do you manage and stay centered? What are some things to watch out for?

Here we go...


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

I'm not sure what it is you're asking here. How to stay "Centered" in a situation that is out of control? Lotsa luck.

What you mention in passing, but probably requires more thought are the kids. Their experience, their understanding of this and what it means and what will happen are crucial parts to the divorce process. Can you and stbex talk about this from their perspective and agree to certain basic ground rules that will minimize their exposure to adult emotion? Right now, you both seem to be focused on yourselves, which is somewhat understandable, but it's important to not forget about their emotional experience and needs thru this very traumatic process. Sometimes, spouses work better as parents than partners, so it might be best to come at this from that angle.

The other thing..and this might sound cynical, but it's far more pragmatic..is that nothing at all that the attorneys whip up is usually worth the emotional cost to you and the kids..and perhaps especially the ability for you and her to continue to work together as parents after the divorce becomes final. Many forget that divorce when you have younger kids doesn't mean "Over", but rather "Changed", and the goal should be to change it in ways that improve things for them....less conflict and stress...and its best to start at the very beginning of the process. Your goals here should be maintaining your active presence in their lives.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Google the Karpman Drama Triangle. 

Carry a voice activated recorder for all interactions from here out.

There is more pain she can bring in punishing you if you are not ultra cautious.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## AvoidDivorce (Jun 10, 2015)

Unicus said:


> I'm not sure what it is you're asking here. How to stay "Centered" in a situation that is out of control? Lotsa luck.
> 
> What you mention in passing, but probably requires more thought are the kids. Their experience, their understanding of this and what it means and what will happen are crucial parts to the divorce process. Can you and stbex talk about this from their perspective and agree to certain basic ground rules that will minimize their exposure to adult emotion? Right now, you both seem to be focused on yourselves, which is somewhat understandable, but it's important to not forget about their emotional experience and needs thru this very traumatic process. Sometimes, spouses work better as parents than partners, so it might be best to come at this from that angle.
> 
> The other thing..and this might sound cynical, but it's far more pragmatic..is that nothing at all that the attorneys whip up is usually worth the emotional cost to you and the kids..and perhaps especially the ability for you and her to continue to work together as parents after the divorce becomes final. Many forget that divorce when you have younger kids doesn't mean "Over", but rather "Changed", and the goal should be to change it in ways that improve things for them....less conflict and stress...and its best to start at the very beginning of the process. Your goals here should be maintaining your active presence in their lives.


Hey I never said I would remain centered. I just hope to try! lol. It is impossible. My emotions are all over the place as expected. Jay83 said it well in his post. One minute hopeful for the future, the next minute crushed and alone.


Very true about the kids. The children's experience is important. So far, we have not done well. We agreed to tell our older daughter together. She told her unilaterally. We agreed to limit their exposure to conflict, she yells insults from outside their bedroom doors. We agreed not to denigrate one another in front of the children. Today my daughter shared that mommy told her I am "stupid, ignorant, and a jerk", but she does not agree.

My response to these things has been to appeal to my wife's motherhood instincts, which have always been strong. In the moment she yells that she does not care what the children hear and that its all my fault. I am able to control what I do, but not her actions.

In response to her tearing me down to my daughter, I simply asked "Do you know me?" she said yes. "Do you agree with those things about me?" she said no. "Then just listen to what you feel and ignore what other people say, no matter who says it". That seemed to offer her some comfort.

I am working everyday to be very active with my kids. I always have been. I am the opposite of the workaholic uninvolved dad. However, there are certain aspects that I let my wife handle while I handled other things she was content to let me manage. It was a good partnership. But, the partnership is dissolved and I have to become good at manage all aspects of my girl's lives until they are old enough to manage their own affairs.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In your first post last year, you never mentioned that you had cheated on her multiple times before she went off track. You say you went scorched earth on her. Just when did you get around to confessing to your wife that your infidelities predated hers? Before or after you went scorched earth?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> In your first post last year, you never mentioned that you had cheated on her multiple times before she went off track. You say you went scorched earth on her. Just when did you get around to confessing to your wife that your infidelities predated hers? Before or after you went scorched earth?


Good question. ....it needs to be answered. 

That attitude possibly explains why she's hateful and doesn't want to reconcile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

His last thread he admitted to the infidelity. I didn't realize he had one from before that 

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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

From reading ALL your posts, and what not the timeline is that you did not admit to anything YET you went scorched earth on her. Your OP on here reads that you cannot reconcile because of: 


*She heaped (and continues to heap) verbal abuse on me at level ten. I ignore, but it adds up.
*She hired an attorney and paid thousands in retainer fees.
*She filed for divorce.
*She put up multiple dating profiles online.
*She left our house one night and went on a date with a man she met online.


Maybe she filed and Payed thousands in retainer fees because you LIED AND DENYED ANY WRONG DOING BUT THREW HER UNDER THE BUS. Yes she is rationalzing how her affairs are different because they are. she is intentionally trying to hurt you as much as you did by going scorched earth and being a ROYAL A ASS in doing so when you were guilty of worse! Your affair was selfish as is hers, but yours was not intentional but your scorched earth approach WAS intentional. 

Man, you admit you have been wrong, but you should just give it up. YOU HAVE DONE WORSE, and all she is doing is trying to stoop to your level. If you ever loved her tell her you can take it you deserve it. LET her take your ass in court. Dont fight it....Why? you deserve this. You were vindictive. If you fight her now this will be a fight that never ends. You are both are just not right for each other anymore. scarred each other beyond belief. 

For the record, i dont agree with wwhat your wife is doing, but i think i understand her. You were pretty damn ****ty.... Now you are trying to be a better person. Well be a perfect EX husband. Dont fight her or her bull dog lawyer. Thats my advice to you. take it or leave it.


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## AvoidDivorce (Jun 10, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> In your first post last year, you never mentioned that you had cheated on her multiple times before she went off track. You say you went scorched earth on her. Just when did you get around to confessing to your wife that your infidelities predated hers? Before or after you went scorched earth?



Remind me what you are talking about with the scorched earth?

My confession came following her infidelity, and my very strong reaction to it. I am not sure scorched earth is appropriate. I did expose her affair to family & friends. In hindsight I wish I had not. But, betrayed spouses do crazy stuff.

Following that there was a period of separation during which I tried to be better, save the marriage, work on myself. But, I still had not confessed. During this period she continued to chat online, went on some dates. Slept with another guy. And there are some things that I think I will never know. At this point I don;t care to.

After I finally confessed all is when she decided to file. That is her right and I accept it.

This thread isn't really about why she doesn't want to reconcile. Thy why is pretty clear to me. Instead, it's about navigating the divorce. It's about dealing with the shenanigans that are sure to come.


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## AvoidDivorce (Jun 10, 2015)

threelittlestars said:


> From reading ALL your posts, and what not the timeline is that you did not admit to anything YET you went scorched earth on her. Your OP on here reads that you cannot reconcile because of:
> 
> 
> *She heaped (and continues to heap) verbal abuse on me at level ten. I ignore, but it adds up.
> ...



50/50. That is fair. Equal time with the kids, that is fair. I am not "fighting" per se. I don't want to fight at all. I totally agree. It needs to end and cannot end soon enough. I agree I was an ass. You didn't live in my marriage for 15 years, so stop short of judgement. I forgot which forum I was on. Some are judgment free, whereas this one is more "judgement today, judgement tomorrah, judgement forevah!".

Flamers inbound!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In your own words from your previous thread:

"A year ago this week I found evidence on my wife's iPad of cheating. Typical sexting stuff. It was shocking and I was floored. At the time I was fully aware of having physically cheated my self on multiple occasions prior to that. Instead of seeing the karma, confessing and beginning to work through it all, I became an enraged betrayed spouse. *I went scorched earth!* Lashing out, informing family, friends, just making every possible mistake. Following that D-Day there was another when I caught her having sex with a man in a hotel the night before my birthday. That was devastating. She admitted it and then we began a physical separation in August."

So, just when did you inform your wife of your betrayals?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You'll have a better chance of navigating the divorce amicably if you understand why she filed and wants to divorce you.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

How can people advise without judgment? This is not a judge free zone and, one is not able to give REASONABLE advice without at least some judgement of the situation. You have not been a nice guy by your own words. Im not flaming you, im trying to help. I dont get any satisfaction from your pain. 

And 50/50 is ideal, but all is fair in love and war. Dont EXPECT 50/50. Buckle up,...its going to be a bumpy ride. Demanding 50/50 might anger her more. Yes 50/50 seems fair, but is it really? in this situation? 

The courts will decide. I wish your children and family well.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It's all all fun and games when it's just about your and your wh0res. 

But let your wife fvck someone else and boy are your a poor victim who had to make sure everyone knew your wife was a pos.

I bet while you were exposing her you conveniently failed to disclose that you were also a huge pos.

See that is central to you navigating your divorce. .... you're upset that she is hateful but you don't really understand why. If you did you wouldn't have been a hypocrite. 

So maybe try to understand that you went out of your way to wreck your wife's reputation while maintaining yours, and once you do you may be able to come to an accord with her.

Have you admitted to your wife that you were a huge hypocrite? Have you since outed yourself to everyone you exposed her to? 

Actions like that MIGHT help you get to a point where she could be civil with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AD,

You are going to have to accept that - your wife is going to attempt to alienate the children from you. Right now she hates you more than she loves them. 

Your conversation with your daughter was spot on. Stick with that. And recognize that your wife's version of scorched earth will be to attack you via the kids. Google 'gray rocking' an aggressive partner. 

If you 'gray rock' her she will lose interest.





AvoidDivorce said:


> 50/50. That is fair. Equal time with the kids, that is fair. I am not "fighting" per se. I don't want to fight at all. I totally agree. It needs to end and cannot end soon enough. I agree I was an ass. You didn't live in my marriage for 15 years, so stop short of judgement. I forgot which forum I was on. Some are judgment free, whereas this one is more "judgement today, judgement tomorrah, judgement forevah!".
> 
> Flamers inbound!


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## AvoidDivorce (Jun 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's all all fun and games when it's just about your and your wh0res.
> 
> But let your wife fvck someone else and boy are your a poor victim who had to make sure everyone knew your wife was a pos.
> 
> ...


Don't sugar coat it. Tell me how you really feel! Just kidding. I deserve all of that, because what you describe is exactly who I was, and exactly what I did.

To answer your question, yes I did admit to being a hypocrite of the highest order. Yes, I have since outed everything I have done to all the people that I told about what she did. I have been brutally honest with all of it and I have asked for their forgiveness, though I do not expect to receive it. The cost has been high. It should be high. I made some very dishonorable choices. I was prepared to bear the brunt of everyone's anger if it meant saving the marriage.

What I realize though, is that my wife did not suddenly change. There were cracks in this marriage many years ago. Years of resentment became years of sexless marriage. If I had acted with integrity, it should have led to divorce or intensive counseling several years ago. But, I didn't. I tried to meet my needs and keep the marriage the way it was.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Understandable and very human. At least you own it. Now just be the best you can be. Worry about yourself and get yourself a lawyer to represent you and tell your lawyer to advise you on whats fair. Your wife is Justifiably enraged, hopefully this is not a permanent state since its not healthy on her, the kids or a happy outcome. For anyone. But you can only do you, and work to minimize triggering her rage further.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

AvoidDivorce said:


> Don't sugar coat it. Tell me how you really feel! Just kidding. I deserve all of that, because what you describe is exactly who I was, and exactly what I did.
> 
> To answer your question, yes I did admit to being a hypocrite of the highest order. Yes, I have since outed everything I have done to all the people that I told about what she did. I have been brutally honest with all of it and I have asked for their forgiveness, though I do not expect to receive it. The cost has been high. It should be high. I made some very dishonorable choices. I was prepared to bear the brunt of everyone's anger if it meant saving the marriage.
> 
> What I realize though, is that my wife did not suddenly change. There were cracks in this marriage many years ago. Years of resentment became years of sexless marriage. If I had acted with integrity, it should have led to divorce or intensive counseling several years ago. But, I didn't. I tried to meet my needs and keep the marriage the way it was.


Well I am known for being blunt. Some would consider it part of my my charm, but others.....maybe not so much 

Yes, you should've acted with integrity and it's good you see that. I suspect a lot of your wife's hatred stems from the feeling that everyone thought she was a low down dirty cheater and you were the wronged hb, and when she realized you never had that moral high ground it caused massive resentment in her.

And now you see that even if your marriage is sexless, the minute you cheat nobody will give you credit for what you put up with, you'll only be the pos cheater. 

Do you understand what sent the marriage to the point of sexlessness and your part in it? That's important as you move forward. 

As for your wife, she's got to get past the resentment on her own timetable. There's nothing you can do besides apologize, be honest and civil, and refuse to engage in nastiness. It may pass and it may not, but living with anger and bitterness is a terrible way to live. Hopefully she'll see that once you guys are living apart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AvoidDivorce (Jun 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> And now you see that even if your marriage is sexless, the minute you cheat nobody will give you credit for what you put up with, you'll only be the pos cheater.
> 
> Do you understand what sent the marriage to the point of sexlessness and your part in it? That's important as you move forward.
> 
> ...


Yes, I see that. The same people that were supportive through years of antics and said things like "It's not just you, we all see it too" are now firmly anti-me. I understand that people like to generalize, and they like to have a simple narrative that they can understand. In addition, it's a hell of a lot easier for her family and friends to villianize me and embrace her. They are bound to support her, and I gave them a very easy out.

I did do a lot of exploring to get the the "why" for the state of our marriage. I now own my half of that dynamic and I will continue to work at changing those patterns. I want to avoid going right back to a similar relationship in the future.

It was watching her ignore her "why" that really cemented me into the let's divorce camp. She has not addressed any of it that I can see. Instead, she has doubled down on those behaviors which have triggered untold flashbacks for me.

We gotta get outta here! But, I can't just pack up and go. There is a lot at stake and screwing this up could leave me in dire straits for years to come. So, I am following my attorney's advice, and the advice of men that have been there before.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You'll be fine. Divorce isn't that bad, was pretty easy for me. Sure it will take me a year to recover financially, but I'm so much happier now. No more fighting and walking on eggshells. Not to mention having awesome sex with someone that actually wants me.

Took me 6 months from the beginning to the end. It flew by quickly. Just take care of yourself and keep the kids #1.


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## AvoidDivorce (Jun 10, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> You'll be fine. Divorce isn't that bad, was pretty easy for me. Sure it will take me a year to recover financially, but I'm so much happier now. No more fighting and walking on eggshells. Not to mention having awesome sex with someone that actually wants me.
> 
> Took me 6 months from the beginning to the end. It flew by quickly. Just take care of yourself and keep the kids #1.


Well this is encouraging! Thanks!!!


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