# Adultery- what is about it that hurts so much?



## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Well, reading and reading threads here, I see everybody going on and on about cheating and it seems that what most bothers is the lies, secrecy and betrayal of trust.

Which, although I'm differently wired, doesn't resonate much with me. Sure all these mentioned things do hurt, but it is not the main reason why being cheated hurts ME. 
Is it not the thought of your SO in the arms of someone else that is supposed to be the most painful? Regardless if they cheat or not. 

If the WS would be straightforward and say " Hey, I'm falling in love with X and I'm leaving you for them" or " I want to bang X and I'm letting you know I'm going for it" - that would not be about cheating and lies. But would still freaking hurt the same !
That, if you love the walk away spouse.

I think too much emphasis is put on being lied to, which leads to the assumption if they told the truth and D first, the pain would be less. NOT for ME. The pain would be just as bad for losing the SO- wether they cheat, or openly leave for the new lover.

Highlighting only the cheating and secrecy, etc, also implies that is not the heart that hurts the BS, but the pride and the ego. In which cases, I lose sympathy for the betrayed. 

So, question is: if cheating would be replaced with honestly being informed, would it hurt less?


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Hortensia said:


> So, question is: if cheating would be replaced with honestly being informed, would it hurt less?


Too bloody right it would!!!!

But I think you missed out jealousy in your list. 

I would be much happier if my wife had openly talked to me about the neglect she felt, the inner feelings that she had not shared that actually lead to the distance between us, and ultimately I would have been a whole lot happier if she were to sit down and talk to me and simply say "this is not working out the way I planned and I would like to divorce you and separate".

For me the hurt came from the extreme lack of communication on her part, she filled a void in our relationship which she actually created(I now know that this was not done intentionally) and lead to her EA that I discovered, I had always prided myself on being open and approachable to her, but at the time she just did not want to open up and fully commit(very long story and not mine to tell, sorry), it was only the reality of what she had done and faced with the cold hard fact that she was about to lose her husband that she woke up to the fact that she needs to talk and communicate.

Now for those out there who think I am wrong, all I can say is, when you reach the same clarity in life as I have now then you will know this is true.

It is better to talk it through and if it won't work or can't be fixed then to separate, although it may be hard it is far easier to still smile when you meet in public and to actually have some after relationship contact that is not screaming and shouting.

I am a year and a half into R with my WW and yes it has been a slog but I talk with my wife everyday about a whole manner of things and I am sure to address issues as I see fit and I also encourage her to do the same, it has been an eye opener for me as I now really feel as though I "know" my wife, before those little unspoken thoughts are now shared, she shares with me her experiences in life that she wanted to keep private(she has a history of sexual abuse that was not resolved properly and a family that turns my stomach to think of!!!) and now she actually comes to me to talk when she wants to have a root around and see if she can let go of her own issues and work them out. But the biggest part of this for us has been that it is there for us both to see and we share this sentiment, "it does not matter if we make it to until death do us part, it does matter that we can be open and honest enough to walk away rather than hurt one another". She understands now how little she valued and actually committed to our marriage, she was selfish and cowardly in some respects but she is progressing as a person and that makes the difference.

Now I can honestly say that I am in a place where I would be as equally happy for her to stay and find happiness with me or to leave me for a single life to enable her to find happiness with someone else.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Everyone feels differently, and everyone's feelings about their own situation are totally valid. If for you the adultery hurt more than the lies, that's perfectly okay, as that is how you feel.

Of course the adultery hurts. Of course the thought of my WH going on dating sites, making dates and sticking it into two different women hurts like hell.

But I can't explain WHY the lies hurt so much, they just do.

When he told me he was going into "next town" all day to buy a special Christmas present for me, when really he was going to bang his OW, the thought that he could say such a despicable thing tore my heart in two.

And then he didn't even bother to make the story ring true. On Christmas Day when I asked where my special present was, he pointed to a book I'd asked for and said "That's it." A book he could have bought (and probably did buy) on Amazon. One that certainly didn't entail a whole-day visit to an entirely different town.

It's also the assumption that I was stupid enough to believe the lies he fed me, such as the woman I caught him texting in November was just a female friend who he talked to about our problems and she gave him a female slant on things.

And even when I found out the truth, the way he held my hand tenderly, told me to look into his eyes and _promised_, swore up and down in fact he had never had sex with her (he had, of course).

When I think about the sex, it's a dull ache. But when I think about the lies, it's a searing, heart-breaking, wrenching agony that the person I loved and wanted to be with for the rest of my life, could bare-facedly say such things to me without a flicker of guilt.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Because in the end, after all the hoopla, the betrayed is being told by the person they love, in the most brutally treacherous way, that they are second rate.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> Well, reading and reading threads here, I see everybody going on and on about cheating and it seems that what most bothers is the lies, secrecy and betrayal of trust.
> 
> Which, although I'm differently wired, doesn't resonate much with me. Sure all these mentioned things do hurt, but it is not the main reason why being cheated hurts ME.
> Is it not the thought of your SO in the arms of someone else that is supposed to be the most painful? Regardless if they cheat or not.
> ...


To be honest that sounds like being deceived being lied to doesn't bother you that much
I think you are "wired" differently


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

There is plenty about the situation that sucks and it can probably be difficult, at least for me, deciding what is the worst. My WW displayed zero remorse. I got what I deserved because I didnt make enough money. She lied about everything that she could no consideration for our marriage or family at all. As horizon stated I was clearly second rate in her eyes. 

On the plus side. Divorce has treated me well. There is no need to suffer in limbo and put up with an unremorseful wayward. You can improve your life and remove the liar and cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't think it's really _any_ of these things mentioned so far, at the core of it. I think it's the loss of the love, affection, and security one has felt. Losing what we counted and were comfortable in assuming was ours. Betrayal would hurt, of course, but if that is taken out of the picture as the OP posits, what's really left is what I've stated.

Horizon comes close, but that's not true for everyone, either. It wouldn't be for me, and my perspective is that someone else _could_ be better for her than me, but in that case, we are just with the wrong people.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hortensia, I got the "I'm going to bang so-and-so" and it hurt me so badly. But I didn’t get any lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

wranglerman said:


> Too bloody right it would!!!!
> 
> But I think you missed out jealousy in your list.
> 
> ...


Yep same, my wife by the end "you had not done this" "we had not communicated" "you and you" etc etc ... 

And like you when now all out of it and with the logical clarity of detachment I can see that was complete bollocks 

We *did* talk we did talk about *her* many problems and how to both deal with and what to do *for her* and often but that just hid that she was selfish, she was entitled, could never not follow through when a man showed interest and had to find excuses to justify it all ie blame someone else You'll notice I'm saying *for her* a lot - that sums it up really 

The biggest hurt from my time with her is the fundamental dishonesty of it all, fking lies about what was in her heart from start to finish

Of course there is terrible suffering as the person you love puts you on the b list when you have given them their life ( in this case that's true) and it hurts to know they want somebody else before you but right there right there is the point to say "I can't hurt you any more so we finish". That does hurt but there is some respect for the honesty involved in making that decision 

It really is the aftermath lying, trickle truthing, blame shifting that adds another 50% of unnecessary pain and ensuing anger that often never leaves you


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

workindad said:


> There is plenty about the situation that sucks and it can probably be difficult, at least for me, deciding what is the worst. My WW displayed zero remorse. I got what I deserved because I didnt make enough money. She lied about everything that she could no consideration for our marriage or family at all. As horizon stated I was clearly second rate in her eyes.
> 
> On the plus side. Divorce has treated me well. There is no need to suffer in limbo and put up with an unremorseful wayward. You can improve your life and remove the liar and cheater.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep word for word where I am now :iagree:

......and it's better being comfortably solo living day to day with no fear than the roller coaster "now wtfk is she up to"! 

I had a dealing her face to face a few days again and still zero remorse - absolutely not a glimmer - it's actually incredible to see it now that the detachment is final 

And the resentment is quite remarkable considering why my kids and I are in the position we find ourselves in


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Hortensia, I got the "I'm going to bang so-and-so" and it hurt me so badly. But I didn’t get any lies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


okay Matt - that make sit alright then !


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## havenrose33 (Aug 7, 2013)

So, question is: if cheating would be replaced with honestly being informed, would it hurt less? 

I am not sure. But I do think if there was honesty it is possible that it would never actually get to a point of an actual *affair*. I can only speak for my case, but I can tell you that it was a huge lack of communication that led to my husbands affair. Just perhaps....if we had been more open about our feelings of neglect and sadness....I wouldn't be posting on a message board about affairs.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> Well, reading and reading threads here, I see everybody going on and on about cheating and it seems that what most bothers is the lies, secrecy and betrayal of trust.
> 
> Which, although I'm differently wired, doesn't resonate much with me. Sure all these mentioned things do hurt, but it is not the main reason why being cheated hurts ME.
> Is it not the thought of your SO in the arms of someone else that is supposed to be the most painful? Regardless if they cheat or not.
> ...


Dear Hortensia,

IMO, if cheating were replaced with honesty -- and I mean total honesty -- there would not be any cheating.

You are correct that, if the WS were to come to the BS at some point in time after the WS was already involved with another person (whether emotionally or physically) and fess up, the pain would probably be pretty much the same. But that would mean that the WS had not been honest previously -- honest about the initial, inappropriate contacts with the AP, honest about the reasons for initiating the inappropriate contacts, and honest about the state of the marriage prior to initiating them.

As I see it, infidelity is does not spring fully formed and out of the blue but usually only after a series of actions and inactions including lies, half-truths, deceptions and, perhaps most importantly, failures to openly and honestly address short-comings in the marriage or with the WS him or herself.

Imagine if in a marriage each partner were to regularly give the other feedback about what they were feeling about the marriage, about the other partner and about themselves -- about what they were dissatisfied with in the other partner's behavior, about what they were feeling toward the people they were interacting with outside of the home, about the hopes and fears for the future, about their past -- in other words, about everything. If this were the case, I can't imagine infidelity would happen or happen very often because each partner would be on notice about what he or she should be doing to strengthen the marriage and make the other partner happy. If one partner failed in this respect, the other would at some point say that he or she was so dissatisfied with the other that he or she was becoming attached to another person. If the failing partner continued to ignore the other's needs and the dissatisfied partner proceeded to become involved with another, fully informing the failing partner of what the dissatisfied partner was doing and feeling at every step along the way, I'm not sure infidelity could occur because, at some point, the marriage would either dissolve or the failing partner would have acceded to the fact that the dissatisfied partner was in a relationship with another person.

I know that this sounds a bit far fetched but I think it helps make the point that, in most troubled marriages, what actually happens is the the future WS is less than honest about what he or she is doing and feeling, well before the infidelity occurs and therefore, even if he or she were to come clean at some point about his or her cheating, there would have been numerous lies previously that allowed the infidelity to occur and/or led to the infidelity.

Perhaps another way to say it is that, in the broadest sense, infidelity and dishonesty are simply two sides of the same coin -- infidelity cannot happen unless it is proceeded by dishonesty of one sort or another.

P.S.: While I was writing this, havenrose33 posted her comment which, more succinctly, makes much the same point. Also, I think wranglerman's comment was along the same line of thought.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Headspin said:


> okay Matt - that make sit alright then !


Well not completely better but a little bit better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Hi folks, it's been a while.

To the original question. Having your spouse, who you were committed to, loved and trusted, turn on you and go behind your back and f>Ck someone else behind your back, repeatedly over a long period of time, is the cruelest sickest experience of my life.

Once busted, she continued to lie, blame shift, gaslight, project blame and humiliate me. I tolerated false R and then limbo for almost 3 years before I finally left her. I'm heading for divorce as I type this.

Of the whole experience: the cheating was the worst. Her lack of remorse and what followed was awful too, but guess the damage was done.

Infidelity is a marriage killer. The vast majority of cheaters have serious psychological issues, often NPD and BPD, and if they act on their instincts, then it's in your best interests to get them out of your life.

I'm not theorizing here. I've lived the experience over the last years, backing down to her pleas to give it another go. Her, saying she was sorry, when what she really portrayed in her communication was "get over it, already".

It took me a ling time to accept what I really knew was the answer all along. If you have doubts after your spouse cheats, then there is no doubt. Get them out of your life.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> Too bloody right it would!!!!
> 
> But I think you missed out jealousy in your list.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Remarkably well stated! 

I have to add that it takes two to tango, so I am also looking quite deeply into why I didn't ask for the communication I needed. Obviously there was fear ... but what is the source of this fear? IC helps a lot.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Cheating strips away the feeling of security from a healthy marriage. Once that feeling is gone it's gone.

The lies and mind games just add fuel to the fire.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

I think it's that they took something that was precious to you, and lied to you so they could give it to someone else.. body mind and soul.. all of the above.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> Hi folks, it's been a while.
> 
> To the original question. Having your spouse, who you were committed to, loved and trusted, turn on you and go behind your back and f>Ck someone else behind your back, repeatedly over a long period of time, is the cruelest sickest experience of my life.
> 
> ...


Exactly this!!:iagree:


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Hortensia said:


> If the WS would be straightforward and say *(A)* " Hey, I'm falling in love with X and I'm leaving you for them" or *(B)* " I want to bang X and I'm letting you know I'm going for it" - that would not be about cheating and lies. But would still freaking hurt the same !
> ...
> So, question is: if cheating would be replaced with honestly being informed, would it hurt less?


*A* would still hurt. However, we have agreed (and our vows state) that we'll stay together as long as we both _love_ each other. Each day we are together is a _choice_ we make. It's not a given, not the default - it's a _choice_. We don't take each other for granted, and that provides great motivation to be our best for each other all the time, not just when we're in the mood. We love each other and because of that want what's best for each other - _even if _that means WE are no longer best for each other! In that case, we are free to go to pursue that happiness elsewhere. In reality, since we have and _maintain_ our (to us) ideal relationship, it's extremely unlikely to happen. But yes, losing the love and affection and support would hurt, and we'd probably try to see if we could change things, but we have agreed that it's not worth staying if we're no longer both in love. Of course, we're not seeking anyone else for an emotional connection, and would know if things got so bad that this were happening or likely - and would probably find a fix for ourselves before the desire to find love elsewhere became a problem.

*B* is a non-issue. We have an open relationship and can and have said that. Jealousy is not an issue for us. We can question the choice if we feel the need, and have given each other veto power if a particular situation seems particularly risky for any reason. We have always both known or met any potential partners first. Our usual response is just "Have fun!"

Anyway, the point is that lying and deception aren't acceptable to us, and would be hurtful. _Take away the lying and deception_ (it's not cheating if you have permission!), and what remains are (a) jealousy (which for us isn't an issue at all), and (b) potential loss of love, affection, support, etc.

Only (b) remains. That would definitely hurt, but of course we don't own each other, and out of love want what's best for each other, _even if it's not me_.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

While all aspects of the affair bother me, the thought of my WS having sex with someone else is definately the worst part. Maybe I'm in the minority but I guess that's what makes it "real" for me or more than just a fantasy. 

I've always believed actions speak louder than words.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

My WW was someone that always thought of her kids first me second and herself last. It all changed and she thought nothing of what it was going to do to our family.

She lied to me about where she was going. Business meetings, out to see a girlfriend and so forth but what hurt the most was the sex and not just the act of sex.

My wife was more open about desires and fantasies then she ever has been with me. My wife was a different person with him a sexual person that she never was with me.

Added to the fact that my wife traded down with this POS OM.

I hurt today two years out from D Day about the betrayal and the lies like they were yesterday. The sex issues have tapered off with time.

They POS tried fishing with emails last month and of course it brings it all back to the front and center of your life


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I think that the reason that the hurt is so centered and focused on the betrayal, dishonesty, lies, and disrespect of the cheating is because the majority of the people these days engage in pre-marital sex. They have sex without thought when they are in high school, college, and beyond prior to their marriage without any issue or thought. They are able to give that part of themselves away without the full commitment required of a marriage, so we generally accept that the person is experienced when they walk to the altar with us.

Gone are the days of the white dress actually meaning something like it was supposed to in the past (pureness and virginity). We therefor expect that when we married, we committed to that person and when they went and slept with someone else, they did it through lies, betrayal, humiliation, etc. The entire package of trust that we have built for them is now gone. 

I think that if my WW had come to me and said that, I would be upset, but not as badly as I am now, because I would have had a chance to present my side of things, possibly discuss, or move on if those options weren't working. As it was, I was the last to know and was made a spectacle in front of everyone else. I was led to believe that things were all normal all the while being bad mouthed, ridiculed, and demeaned behind my back. The thing about the sex that bothers me most is the thought that she gave to somebody of herself something that she has never given me (I don't know this for sure, as she won't give the honest and full truth), so the lies I do get hurt all the more and make it hard to believe ever again if what she is telling me is the truth or a new set of cover up lies.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> So, question is: if cheating would be replaced with honestly being informed, would it hurt less?


It would still hurt like hell, but at least the honesty would make it easier to deal with. 

Before I married my current wife, I knew she was in love with a guy who had moved to Ohio and she wasn't following him. Wifey & I were great friends and both lonely so we decided to cure our lonliness together. Due to my betraying wife (#1) things like love and trust are unavailable to me anymore. But I made it clear that if he came back here and if she still wanted him and he wanter her, to just let me know. It would hurt but we could find a way to be adults about it all and there would be no lies, deception, sneaking around... At least I could respect her for her honesty.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

He met her on a Sunday and starting that Monday he treated me like sh*t until that following Sunday, after he screwed her Saturday night/Sunday morning. Once he did the deed, he treated me like he normally did. My man tore me down to build her up...and then put his d*ck in her. Yeah...that is pretty much the worst and most paralyzing part for me. 

I have lost someone to suicide and I have had someone cheat on me...the latter is by far the worse pain I have ever felt in my entire life.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Hortensia said:


> Well, reading and reading threads here, I see everybody going on and on about cheating and it seems that what most bothers is the lies, secrecy and betrayal of trust.
> 
> Which, although I'm differently wired, doesn't resonate much with me. Sure all these mentioned things do hurt, but it is not the main reason why being cheated hurts ME.
> Is it not the thought of your SO in the arms of someone else that is supposed to be the most painful? Regardless if they cheat or not.
> ...


I don't think "the thought of your SO in the arms of someone else" "is supposed to be the most painful" - there is no one aspect of infidelity that is "supposed to" be more painful than any other. 

I also don't think that people who feel more lingering pain from the secrecy (rather than feel more upset by thoughts of the SO in the affair partner's arms, as you do) are necessarily dealing more with wounded "pride" or "ego" than you are. They are experiencing something different than you are. It's too bad that you're unable to sympathize with their pain.

Lying (by omission or outright) to your spouse, is a serious betrayal of trust, which is one of the foundations on which a marriage is built. Many people place a high value on integrity, for themselves and their spouses. My WS used to talk about how much HE hated liars, and his integrity was one of the things that attracted me to him. I was crushed when I found out how much he lied to and deceived me. He hates himself too for it, now.

I've tried to mentally move the few actual sex acts with his affair partner (which were fortunately very few) almost into the same category as the sex my WS had with people before I met him. I don't agonize about those sex acts and I try not to picture them either. (No, I'm not entirely successful.) But the lying, and how that has affected trust and closeness is still the major problem for me. Believe me, this hurts my HEART.

Everybody's situation is different, and which aspect of our situations is going to traumatize us the most and cause us the most grief is different too. But there is no "right" way to feel the pain of infidelity.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Rejection , even done openly and honestly is still betrayal by the person who pledged their love, fidelity, and commitment to you for life.

It's a betrayal of their loyalty to you, and a betrayal of their loyalty to making the marriage work and thrive.

So them going into another's arms regardless of telling you 5 min or 10 years ahead is still betrayal.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I think it is deception, which of course encompasses most feelings that are being discussed.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> It took me a ling time to accept what I really knew was the answer all along. If you have doubts after your spouse cheats, then there is no doubt. Get them out of your life.


That bit unfortunately is the sticking point isn't it

You end up feeling so so stupid because your gut instinct,which is hardly ever wrong, was tickling away all the time telling you what you know inside to be the truth

......and then you find out in the end you should have acted on it right at the start 

Uuuurrrggghhh!


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Headspin said:


> That bit unfortunately is the sticking point isn't it
> 
> You end up feeling so so stupid because your gut instinct,which is hardly ever wrong, was tickling away all the time telling you what you know inside to be the truth
> 
> ...


But we aren't so perfect because there is family & emotion and familiarity, security - even when communication has broken down. 

I can see the red flags now quite clearly, which I ignored for some reason back then, until I finally acted one time when I nonchalantly asked her if she was seeing someone. She lied to my face.

Besides the physical act of sex there is an invisible bond between two people who love each other, something that passes between them at those special moments - something sacred to them. Even after a relationship has hit stasis this element is present.

This is not to be confused with the "high" of casual / pick-up sex, though in some cases a connection beyond the act can take place.

IMO when my WS strayed she allowed another to come into proximity with our special element and thus it's sacredness became polluted. 

She would like to diminish the betrayal as just sex which has proved to me that she has never understood the significance of the physical connection between those who love each other and she has never viewed it that way, never has in her life. 

And further, she may not really understand what it means to love someone at all. In that sense sex to her is just that - sex, something pleasurable to do when the chemicals kick in.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

That the person I would have willing given my life for betrayed me and took my life for no reason but to see me die..


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Hortensia said:


> If the WS would be straightforward and say " *Hey, I'm falling in love with X and I'm leaving you for them*" or " I want to bang X and I'm letting you know I'm going for it" - that would not be about cheating and lies. But would still freaking hurt the same !


If your significant other tells you that (s)he is "falling in love with X", your significant other has having an EA, and an EA IS cheating. After all, one doesn't usually meet and "fall in love" the moment they meet. So, there HAD to have been SOME form of communication between them that you're obviously unaware of...

...which means, you HAVE been lied to and otherwise deceived.

Had you been standing over your spouse's shoulder seeing what he was texting to his or her AP, or had you been able to listen in to their conversations BEFOR they "fell in love", I'm certain that you would have heard or seen something _inappropriate_ WELL BEFORE the first "ILY's" were exchanged.

Vega


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

My wife and I have way different libido's. She even told me to get a mistress. I wish I had an affair partner.

I don't think my wife would be hurt...maybe a little. She tells me it's not cheating if she knows about it ahead of time. If I go behind her back, I think it would hurt way more for her.

She has a chance to fix our situation and she doesn't feel the need to do her part. she believes if I get my physical needs met elsewhere, I will still come back to her for my emotional needs. I am still trying to understand her thought process. 

Either she doesn't think another woman would want me or she doesn't believe I will ever leave her for another woman and leave our daughter. Our daughter prevents me from having an A.

Anyway... She says..."it's just sex"


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think, and I could be wrong as I was not cheated on with another person but his shadiness was similar, is it's the mind effing that causes the pain.

The feeling that you're crazy.
The feeling like you know something is up but not sure what and they never answer...just ignore.
The feeling like it's your fault.
The feeling like you're going insane because you want to trust but can't and they say nice things but you don't believe.
The feeling that their actions and words don't match.

It's the mind eff.


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## disconnected (May 30, 2013)

that_girl said:


> i think, and i could be wrong as i was not cheated on with another person but his shadiness was similar, is it's the mind effing that causes the pain.
> 
> *the feeling that you're crazy.
> The feeling like you know something is up but not sure what and they never answer...just ignore.
> ...


e x a c t l y


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

that_girl said:


> I think, and I could be wrong as I was not cheated on with another person but his shadiness was similar, is it's the mind effing that causes the pain.
> 
> The feeling that you're crazy.
> The feeling like you know something is up but not sure what and they never answer...just ignore.
> ...



That my dear is a guilt complex built up by the knowledge that perhaps you were not as perfect a partner as you might like to believe!

The rest comes about through the lack of communication with your SO, I would still rather she sat and told me where we were going wrong and if she wanted to leave the relationship as a single person I would help her find her feet alone, any involvement with another man within 2 or three months and you know she has been unfaithful in some way shape or form!!!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

"What is about it(adultery/cheating) that hurts so much?"

For me, the answer is this: *Because the WS and the AP DELIBERATELY chose to engage in behaviors that they both KNEW(that is, was foreseeable) would be hurtful to the BS.*

I've mentioned before on CWI that when my ex and his AP were deep in their EA, the AP told him, "I don't want to hurt Vega". But she had already been engaged in hurtful behavior toward me. Even if *I* didn't know about the behavior, _she_ knew the moment she crossed that *first* _'line of impropriety' _that I _would_ be hurt if I knew about it! 

The first 'line of impropriety' is ALWAYS crossed when both the WS and the AP are _fully dressed_. It's the first time that their _conversation_ becomes a little too 'personal'. It happens in ONS's, EA's and LTA's. It's a line that they usually cross together simultaneously, but not always. It's something either spoken or written that signals, "I'm available for YOU!", even if those words aren't spoken. 

Now, up to that point, their 'friendship' may have been exactly that: A _friendship_. But once that line is crossed by ONE of them, the relationship is thrown into a state of temporary suspended animation. Will the WS accept her 'invitation'? Is the AP willing to keep crossing the line? So far, no one has gotten hurt...

...until the 'invitation' is _accepted_ by the other. It is NOW that the WS and AP will begin to engage in behaviors that will be _deliberately hurtful _to the BS. It's at this point that the WS and the AP KNOWS that they are doing something 'wrong'; they are doing something that they wouldn't want their own partner (if they have one) to do to _them_.

At this point, their actions and their words are *deliberate*. They know they're acting in a hurtful manner, and they don't care. The WS and the AP both get to 'feel good' at the _expense_ of the BS. After all, the WS doesn't '_accidentally_' refer to his BS as a 'b*tch' or complain about the lack of sex. The WS doesn't 'accidentally' compliment his AP while putting the BS down (to the AP). 

So, all in all, what hurts the most is that their acts/words were not 'mistakes'. They were a series of _*deliberate*_ actions that had a foreseeable hurtful impact on the BS. 

Vega


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Headspin said:


> To be honest that sounds like being deceived being lied to doesn't bother you that much
> I think you are "wired" differently


Yes the lies DO bother me but they're not the major thing. They bother me nowhere near the hurt of the betrayal.
I can forgive lies. But not an emotional betrayal. 
Yes, I know, I'm different.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

havenrose33 said:


> So, question is: if cheating would be replaced with honestly being informed, would it hurt less?
> 
> I am not sure. But I do think if there was honesty it is possible that it would never actually get to a point of an actual *affair*. I can only speak for my case, but I can tell you that it was a huge lack of communication that led to my husbands affair. Just perhaps....if we had been more open about our feelings of neglect and sadness....I wouldn't be posting on a message board about affairs.


My views exactly. In most cases, communication and met needs can prevent the calamity. But can just generalize here...there are waywards who no matter how much you try to please, will still stray.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

russell28 said:


> I think it's that they took something that was precious to you, and lied to you so they could give it to someone else.. body mind and soul.. all of the above.


Yes, well said. But wouldn't it hurt the same if they didn't lie , just inform you that they are giving it all to someone else? to me, it makes no difference. The pain would be the same.
The only diff it can make is giving me the chance to move on earlier, rather than waste years of my life keeping me around as plan B. But just that...


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

It's a lottery - you don't know what you are going to get. Even so called strong relationships are cut down by infidelity. As a BS it tough to be told you are equally responsible for the affair. Don't ever believe that lie, even when they hold so steadfastly to that line as my WS does.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Vega said:


> If your significant other tells you that (s)he is "falling in love with X", your significant other has having an EA, and an EA IS cheating. After all, one doesn't usually meet and "fall in love" the moment they meet.
> 
> Vega


True.
But, two things:
1. Few people even know what an EA is (I haven't, until found this site ), therefore may be unaware of when exactly are crossing the line into something wrong (an EA) - which is doing something that you wouldn't do and say with and to the AP in front of your spouse. Few people acknowledge and recognize the healthy boundaries, so they can just find themselves "in love" one day.

2. What about the scenario in which the WS has already fallen out of love with the BH, before the AP entering their life? They just stayed out of convenience, comfort, duty, etc...and didn't think they would fall in love, but they did?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

wranglerman said:


> That my dear is a guilt complex built up by the knowledge that perhaps you were not as perfect a partner as you might like to believe!
> 
> The rest comes about through the lack of communication with your SO, I would still rather she sat and told me where we were going wrong and if she wanted to leave the relationship as a single person I would help her find her feet alone, any involvement with another man within 2 or three months and you know she has been unfaithful in some way shape or form!!!


 

No, the guilt I'm talking about is not believing this person whom you've given your heart to. Guilty for persecuting them when they're saying they are innocent. Guilt for even thinking they could be up to something EVEN THOUGH all the signs point to a big YESSSS. Guilt for the kids and that they didn't choose to come from a broken home.


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

It isn't the fact 

-she slept with OM

-She fell in love with OM

-Sent OM dirty pic's (I never recieved any)

-Cheated on OM and her husband in a ONS while on a family camping trip with my family

What hurts the most is I gave her 20 years of my life, father of her three children, busted my [email protected]@ to make sure she had everything she needed and I couldn't get honesty. I couldn't get the "I love another man" talk, she played me like I was nothing to her. To me that's what hurts the MOST. Her words after all was said and done
"How can I tell you I love you both?" 

Well sweety, you just did and it didn't seem so friggin hard.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Hortensia said:


> True.
> But, two things:
> 1. Few people even know what an EA is (I haven't, until found this site ), therefore may be unaware of when exactly are crossing the line into something wrong (an EA) - which is doing something that you wouldn't do and say with and to the AP in front of your spouse. Few people acknowledge and recognize the healthy boundaries, so they can just find themselves "in love" one day.


Even if people don’t know what an EA is they DO know if they’re keeping the truth about another man or woman from their spouse. They DO know that they're beginning to have "feelings" for another man/woman, and they DO have the ability to stop themselves and/or talk to their spouse about it. They DO know if they're hiding their new 'relationship' from their spouse. They DO know if they're starting to wake up in the morning and look forward to seeing/talking to the AP without the AP actually _being_ an AP yet. 

They also know that they wouldn’t want the shoe to be on the other foot. They may not THINK that way _at the time they’re doing it_, but AFTER they’ve been caught or confessed to an affair, they usually admit that there was a point in time when they KNEW that what they were doing was at least ‘inappropriate’…and that THEY would NOT like it if it was done TO them.



> 2. What about the scenario in which the WS has already fallen out of love with the BH, before the AP entering their life? They just stayed out of convenience, comfort, duty, etc...and didn't think they would fall in love, but they did


IF the WS’s feelings for the BS have changed, the _proper thing to do_ is to inform the BS of that change, _pronto_! This way the BS can make the best decision for him/herself about what the next step is. Otherwise, the WS is just *proving* their own selfishness by staying in the relationship/marriage for convenience, comfort, etc. I can't think of many people who agree to be _used_ like that. 

One of the reasons why affairs happen is because of a lack of self-awareness. But just because a WS may not have good self-awareness doesn’t let the WS off the hook. The WS is STILL responsible for himself/herself. Period. 

And the WS still has a responsibility toward his/her spouse, even if (s)he no longer love his/her spouse. 

Vega


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

My WS will not talk. The wall of silence about the A is win win for her. She moves further ahead each day, getting distance from it while I am left with a partially complete jigsaw puzzle. Sure, it will never be complete but it could be mostly complete. That's a pipe dream for most BS's though and apparently I'm one of the lucky ones to have as much info as I do. To be left wondering about the forensic details, not just the sex, is a cruel place to be

Who made the first move, how? Was it a look way back before the EA even started when they were work colleagues, were the chemicals firing then, the first hint of it?....When did the flattery turn sexual? What happened at what point at the re-union when you knew something was going to happen? The ground had been sewn, was it an unspoken expectation or was there a certain spontaneity fueled by alcohol? What was said about me?....

See, I can't go on because there are so many questions. It is a torturous cruel place but I know I am at least entitled to an answer to every f**king question, no matter how much it makes her squirm. See what adultery does - it never ends.


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## FLGator (Mar 26, 2013)

For me. It is the knowledge that no matter how hard I tried, worked, cared, and was the best man I could have been. Did all the right things, not because it was what I had to do, but because what I wanted to do, it was not enough. What was enough for her was a loser who has 1% of what I have, is a immature jerk and a immoral person (obviously). 

It's the knowledge that you didn't even come close, didn't even get the same feelings and emotions back from this person that you blindly thought that you did until you get smacked in the face with reality. Reality that you just, for some reason, didn't measure up, couldn't give what was needed, and wasn't even asked in the first place, or it was never even brought up. 

It is the worse kind of unfair fight. The one you didn't know you were fighting until you lost. And when you lose that flight, you lose everything.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Yes, well said. But wouldn't it hurt the same if they didn't lie; just inform you that they are giving it all to someone else? To me, it makes no difference. The pain would be the same.


My wife told me just that. I can tell you that the pain was hell!



*



Adultery- what is about it that hurts so much?

Click to expand...

*I suppose there are 100 different hurts so some of us will differ.
For me it was that I had part of my worth and self esteem wrapped up in the idea that I was so loved and needed by my wife. After all, she had told me that no one came close to me in her eyes: I was “Mr. Wonderful”. Well apparently her vision got substantially tarnished at some point! Also my ideas that our love was so virtuous and strong got a rude awaking.

We have had a lot of success in our many years of R and she has been remorseful and faithful but *I will never go back to that ideal thinking again. We have gained in other areas but something special was lost.* In addition, I have worked on myself for many years and *my self worth is not so dependant on my wife anymore.* I know that I can not be that hurt again by her and that if we split that I would make it and have a decent life.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

IT's the deception in general, and it's the little ways that the deception is implemented:

1. The negative hits you get from your partner just so that he/ she can justify their affair.
2. It's the lies about what really happened. ie, "we always went Dutch." 
3. It's the fact that they keep you in the dark while the OP knows everything about you.
4. It's the fact that while you give up certain things to be in the relationship, they are giving more to someone else who is giving up less. Why on earth should I give up seeing other men when you are perfectly happy spending time and other resources with another woman who you know is ****ing another men.

After awhile, the arrangement just doesn't make sense at all. And in my case, the inappropriate friendship / EA type of affair, many people in our society actually support it.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

"See, I can't go on because there are so many questions. It is a torturous cruel place but I know I am at least entitled to an answer to every f**king question, no matter how much it makes her squirm. See what adultery does - it never ends."

I can relate to this completely. How can you develop any intimacy between us while the intimacy between them continues to be a secret between them?


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Although visions of the sex act is painful - the lies, betrayal and lack of respect is what hurts the most. 

The lies that were told cut to my soul. When I finally faced reality and needed to investigate and verify the lies - I found a true classic case of an adulterer. A true coward going through a MLC and destroying 3 lives in the process. 

The phone records showed text messages while we were on family vacations, school graduations, holidays.

Events where he claimed he was working but text messages showed otherwise hurt like hell.

Our marriage was shattered in a million pieces once all the facts were discovered. A person telling you they still love you but their actions show something so different is the true reality.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

For me, there are a few things that hurt about infidelity.

1. My WS was giving the attention that I craved so bad from him and should have belonged to me, to another women/women. 

2.	My WS was doing and saying things to/for other women that I had been asking him to do for me for years and would have improved our relationship: courting, flirting, going on dates, communicating, spending quality time together without kids;

3.	There is a real element of emotional abuse and manipulation when someone cheats that is very difficult to overcome. The trauma and the “mind-fvcking” they put you through in order to continue cheating or to justify and get away with it, is just like any verbally or emotionally abusive relationship: 

a.	They participate in crazy-making behaviours and gaslight you: “How could you think that?” “You’re being insecure.” Basically the message is that something is wrong with YOU to think they would cheat. You are insecure, broken, defective and need to work on yourself. The sick part is, you start to believe this and this leads you to blame yourself and doubt your own perceptions.​
b.	They blame you and pick fights over really small things with you giving them an excuse to run off and be with the OP. Leading you to believe they left to cool off, not heat things up with someone else.

c.	The deceit is a form of control.
i.	They remove your choice in who you want to be with when they cheat and lie about it or hide it. You spend that time (weeks, months, decades – however long the affair is) thinking you’re with a faithful person and investing your time in said person because of that belief. Had they been honest with you, you could evaluate if you wanted to be with them but because they lie, you don’t have a choice or informed consent about being in a relationship with them.

d.	They project their issues onto you to the point where you begin to question yourself. They accuse you of cheating, lying, flirting and you start to wonder if you are a trustworthy person or if you’ve done something to make them lose their trust in you before you question whether they’re cheating.

e.	They treat you like their emotional punching bag – criticizing you, putting you down, picking fights, blaming you etc. to deflect their guilt so they can give all of their positivity and good feelings, compliments etc. to the OP.


f.	The rewriting of history further causes you to doubt yourself. Maybe you were the problem after all? Maybe things weren’t as good as they seemed?​
4.	They steal your years, this ties into the control I stated above. My ex had/was having what he deemed to be back then as an exit affair. According to him, he hadn’t wanted to be with me for two years before cheating. Of course, he didn’t have the balls to tell me this or just leave me. No, during that time he told me he was working on us, making plans for the future with me to start a business, we got pregnant again and he was otherwise leading me to believe he was invested in me/us. Well, what he doesn’t realize is if he was that unhappy during those years and had no intention on working things out, he should have left because it wasn’t just his time being wasted on a go-nowhere, unhappy relationship. Those were my two years too. 

5.	They use you. A cheater doesn’t simply leave because you have something that they want and they feel entitled to get those benefits from you while also getting the benefits of an affair. If you were truly unbearable to be with for them, they would have just left and then found someone else once they left you. However, you give them sex, ego kibbles, affection, a house, income, kids – something of value that makes them stay while cheating so they can have their cake and eat it too. All the while, they don’t care that you’re entitled to more. You are like an appliance. You don’t have feelings, needs, you’re not important. Being devalued and dehumanized by someone like this is a huge blow to one’s self-esteem, self-worth etc.

6.	They make the world a scary place. How could you be so foolish, you think to yourself. Who is this person I married? Was everything a lie...a sham? You doubt everything and everyone around you. Everywhere you look is another threat, someone that can and will hurt you. You doubt yourself and your ability to see those threats.

7.	They KILL the person you loved and cherished. They become a pod-person, a stranger...

I could go on and on but I think this is getting too long as it is.


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## stormydays (May 31, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> For me, there are a few things that hurt about infidelity.
> 
> 1. My WS was giving the attention that I craved so bad from him and should have belonged to me, to another women/women.
> 
> ...


This is an excellent summary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

jupiter13 said:


> "See, I can't go on because there are so many questions. It is a torturous cruel place but I know I am at least entitled to an answer to every f**king question, no matter how much it makes her squirm. See what adultery does - it never ends."
> 
> I can relate to this completely. How can you develop any intimacy between us while the intimacy between them continues to be a secret between them?


Spot on Jupiter, that's the point - and it takes sharing on a forum like TAM to reduce the mental mayhem (a thousand angles) to something more useful. Particularly when you are trying to cut through the WS's diversions and BS.

And I'll say it again - why the f**k am I having to do all the work? Answer: Because that work is for me, not her. Before it indicated my dependency, I needed her approval. Not anymore. I am changing for the better.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

I don't want to do the hard work. He should be doing the hard work but he is just kicking back doing as little as possible (as I see it) while I spend everyday in tears at some point or another. Why does he get to have his fun and bad behavior act out etc when ever the mood strikes him then walk back in with sorry won't happen again says he's changed and that that? He wants to celebrate our anniversary but wants to know what we should do cause he's afraid if he does something it will hurt e? Got to be kidding there is nothing more he can do to hurt me stop trying to protect me from what ever it is your not wanting to face. And why celebrate something you destroyed. I am full of anger tonight should just try to get to bed and forget all this for awhile. What hurts the most is the one person I loved, believed in, supported and trusted with my life killed me, with intention and forethought. Disrespected me so many times and ways I should be on a skewer and presented for all to see. Even with our business to deal with people I know must have some idea that something is wrong. I was supporting this man even in a court room standing by his side while he was lying to me. How stupid I am that angers me too. I'm off to bed I can't get my head wrapped around anything tonight and he's sleeping peacefully in our bed complaining cause I'm on the couch but I'll be dam!ed if I will lay next to him and cry.


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

What makes it hurt? That someone who promised everything to me gave away to someone else something that was only supposed to be mine. 

If someone were to say, "I'm going to give your car to Ms Thang", it wouldn't make any difference whether I had known about it or not. I would still be without a car that I had chosen, cared for, and maintained just to have it given to Ms Thang who had no responsibility to my car whatsoever, to run it through the bushes and not avoid the damaging pot holes in the road as she pleased so that when I got my car back, damaged, it was I who had to pay for the damage.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*In my learned opinion, their flagrant betrayal and disregard of trust far exceeds their illicit psychological[EA] as well as their copulatory[PA] endeavors, hands down!*


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

FLGator said:


> For me. It is the knowledge that no matter how hard I tried, worked, cared, and was the best man I could have been. Did all the right things, not because it was what I had to do, but because what I wanted to do, it was not enough. What was enough for her was a loser who has 1% of what I have, is a immature jerk and a immoral person (obviously).
> 
> It's the knowledge that you didn't even come close, didn't even get the same feelings and emotions back from this person that you blindly thought that you did until you get smacked in the face with reality. Reality that you just, for some reason, didn't measure up, couldn't give what was needed, and wasn't even asked in the first place, or it was never even brought up.
> 
> It is the worse kind of unfair fight. The one you didn't know you were fighting until you lost. And when you lose that flight, you lose everything.


This got me thinking FLGator. To do everything right, and your spouse ALSO appears to be doing the right things, saying the right things, sharing apparent intimacies, yet STILL betray you.

I don't know how that could happen, but it is probably the one way I could be truly surprised and blindsided. I would think that such a spouse would have asked for what they wanted - did I not hear them, or not understand them? Are _they_ trying to connect, but chose the _wrong person _to marry so no matter what they do or how hard they try, it's never going to generate the true feelings of love and connection? Can they even think that they are succeeding, yet it's not real? Are there signs that I could have seen that this was so?

I worry that sometimes I could be taking for granted that all I do is reciprocated, and don't look or listen as carefully as I should.

Of course, this is all futile reflection, for the most part. We do the best we can, but only hindsight is clear enough to sometimes answer this. My ex and I probably just chose the wrong person. We were too young and inexperienced to make good choices, and we weren't nearly as compatible as we thought. I _think _my ex had an EA with a coworker, but by that time things were so far gone I didn't even care, and it wasn't long after that we decided to end the marriage anyway - that decision had been in the making for years, and MC had no help for us.


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