# My story: seeking closure



## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

I've been lurking on these forums for over a year, and want to thank all of you for sharing your stories and experiences. They have been tremendously helpful as I've gone through my own journey after my ex-wife's infidelity. 

I've decided to share my own story in case others can learn from it, and because I'd appreciate advice on getting closure. It's very long, but if you don't want the backstory you can skip to the scattered last few paragraphs to see where my head is (before that is my variant of the standard WW story).

Summary: My WW had an affair with her boss. We separated in 2011 and our divorce was finalized in early 2012. A week after the judge signed the decree, she moved to the UK to live with the OM. We have two young children, ages 5 and 3, who reside with me in the US; she visits them every few months and will have them for over a month in the summer. Life is good, but I have been through the same pains, doubts, and self-questioning that many of you have. It has made me stronger but I still cope with the aftermath and seek closure. 

Cue backstory. We met in college in 2001, and were each other's first serious relationships. After a few years of dating, we were engaged, and married a year later. Both very successful in our careers at a young age. We decided to start a family and had two wonderful, healthy kids. Life was great …

In early 2010, soon after our second child was born, my WW began to behave unusually. She was much less affectionate to our daughter than she had been to our son as a newborn. She became more distant to me at the same time. Whereas we used to speak daily on the phone when I traveled for work, communication shifted to emails about logistics and basic pleasantries. On weekends she preferred I take the kids to soccer games, birthday parties, and the like while she relaxed at home or got a pedicure. 

I naively believed all of this to be due to work stress, as she had become engrossed in her job around this same time. During her maternity leave, she had been passed up for a promotion; this made her quite insecure and she eagerly sought to prove herself. She threatened to leave the company, and they appeased her by moving her into a role directly under the new CEO. He had founded an online market research company in the UK; my WW's company merged with them late 2009 and he was appointed CEO of the combined entity. She was in effect his "chief of staff" in charge of special projects and communications.

At first I thought this was a great opportunity for her to work with the CEO. She often mentioned how he reminded her of me, except a decade older, British, and balding. He was smart, funny, nice, "a good family man" (wife and three kids), etc. I met him myself a few times and he seemed like a standup guy. Little did I know he was targeting my wife, and would become the driving factor in her leaving both me and her children.

She began to spend a significant amount of time with the executive team, including travels around the world and late nights out when the CEO and others from the UK came to visit headquarters in TX. Wanting to support her career, and ignorant of the red flags, I allowed her to go out with this group … I trusted her 100% and thought that as a woman trying to break into the "old boys" club, nights out with coworkers were necessary. I was also unaware of the risks that today are obvious after reading this script play out over and over. 

Unbeknownst to me at the time, the CEO separated from his wife in the UK in 2010 (I didn't learn this until 2011 when I found out about the affair). Around the holidays that year, my wife mentioned "taking a break" which shocked me, but she never followed through and we chalked it up again to holiday and work stress. Rug sweeping to a degree we moved on with our lives throughout 2011, taking care of the kids and going on trips together as a family. We were busy, and probably not giving each other enough attention, but I still never thought that she would be having an affair. 

In the summer of 2011, my WW called me out of the blue one evening and told me that the CEO was being investigated for "improper favoritism of women" in the office and that she was one of several who were brought into the allegations. She swore that there was nothing going on, but was concerned about damage to her reputation and what her peers would think now that several in the office were being asked about her. I believed her and vowed to support her no matter what. About a month later, the CEO resigned and soon after my WW said she had to leave the company as well because she didn't feel comfortable working there, and wanted to try something new.

I was suspicious of this timing, and my suspicions were confirmed a week later when I saw an email from my WW to her former boss lamenting how he had left to return to his home in the UK, and proclaiming her "love" for him. I confronted her but she denied they were anything more than friends, and she attributed the word "love" to being drunk when writing (she was, it was written to him during a night we were on vacation and had drank together by the pool for hours). I wanted to believe her. She wanted space to "figure things out" … so we agreed to go to counseling after she returned from her last work trip to the UK to close things off. You can see where this is heading …

Needless to say, she did not call home to talk to me or the kids nor respond to calls the entire week in the UK. I finally sent her a very direct email asking for the truth, and she admitted to being "in love" with her boss and said he was the reason why she couldn't be with me. Upon her return, I gave her the choice to end all communications with him; she refused which was a dealbreaker for me. We began to talk of a "trial separation" and what that would look like.

I still wanted to hold our family together, and had many others encouraging me to do the same. Our split was a shock to everyone as my WW had never expressed unhappiness to a single friend or family member. I also learned that she had been lying to him about several things, e.g., telling him we were already separated and that she had moved out of the house and was living independently (while we were still married and living together). So I contacted the OM, exposed her lies, and told him to back off. He did not respond to me, but I later learned that he did ignore my WW for a week or so, until she threatened to expose him to his own wife and to the board of the company they had worked for, and was considering a sexual harassment lawsuit. At this point OM told my WW that the only reason he had stopped calling was because I threatened him. She in turn blamed me for "meddling" with her relationship (!) and we moved from trial separation to filing for divorce. 

Finalizing the divorce was relatively painless, even though my WW was cold to me and the kids during this time. It became clear that my WW's top priority was moving to London to be with OM (though she told me and others that it was due to her "long-standing" desire to live in a different country). She was willing to give me primary custody of the children to ensure a fast divorce, and since the children were most important to me I accommodated. However, I told her in no uncertain terms that OM should never expect to be friends with me and that I would never accept him as part of our children's lives. She ignored this; her story to me that she was only going to the UK for 2 months to see if she could get a job, and she also told the OM among others that I would eventually "get over it" and might even move to the UK so that the kids could be by their mother. Delusional at best. She left in early 2012 and has been there since (with some hopping around countries to avoid visa limitations).

A year later and for the most part, life is great. I've been a great father and have built even stronger bonds with my two awesome children. I've reconnected with many old friends, and have received amazing support from them as well as my family (both mine and my WW's). The dating scene is amazing; I've had more success with women than at any time in my life, even though I am very hesitant to pursue anything serious at the moment. Ask any casual observer in my life and I'm the "poster child" for recovering from a divorce … or so it seems.

WW and OM are still living together in the UK. I heard through friends of the trips they have taken: skiing in the Alps, sailing in the Greek Isles, and so forth. For about a year neither of them were working (him due to being wealthy, my ex-WW due to visa issues) so it was truly a "honeymoon" period. That didn't bother me too much as I was enjoying life and new freedoms myself, but seeing how my kids have been hurt by their selfishness has been painful. No children deserve to have their mother abandon them and move across an ocean for someone else. It especially bothers me that POSOM might one day interact with my children if they remain together, or they visit her in the UK.

Relations between WW and me are tense. After initially accommodating her infrequent visits back to the US (being flexible around visitation times), I decided at the end of last year to enforce boundaries. The result was her blaming me for "keeping her away from the kids" (she wanted extra time around Christmas but I only gave her what was spelled out in the decree... even though she was able to come to US for a longer time). In my mind, it was a natural consequence - how can she accuse me of blocking her access to the kids when it was her choice to leave them and move across the ocean? But to her, I'm evil and selfish.

So yes, as my user name suggests, I've been struggling to a degree with getting closure. It's twofold. 

The first part is around standing up for myself. Before we divorced, I told OM I would expose his actions to his family and professional colleagues if he did not back off my wife (tactical mistake in giving him the heads up). While I did ultimately inform his wife – she was already moving towards divorce having realized he was making no efforts to her and the kids, and my letter solidified her resolve – I held back on the professional exposure since he had already resigned from the company he founded. And I didn't do cheaterville or any sites like that, despite the temptation.

OM now has taken a new CEO job with a small service recommendation company in the UK. I realize that exposure to his colleagues could just make me look vindictive, probably wouldn't solve anything, and could just escalate an already delicate situation. But a small part of me wants to follow through just so I know I did everything I could and said I would, and get the truth out. One could argue that the employees and investors have a right to know about their CEO and his past. It also doesn't help that my WW has told me that she and OM "laughed" at the emails I wrote him and didn't (don't) believe I would do anything. 

The second part of getting closure is around accepting what I cannot control. Many close to my WW suspect that she may have had postpartum depression (given the ease with which she left kids) or is bipolar (runs in her family). Having read up on these conditions, I can attest that there are indeed symptoms of both. That said, she followed the WW script to a tee and even before the affair, she was always a bit more self-centered than the average individual … the type of person who was "always right" (I loved her despite this). So I'm not sure what to believe, or even how I'd respond if she were found to have a medical issue at the root of this. It could just be WW selfishness and entitlement anyway.

And I have lingering doubts about the OM's intentions … from what I saw of their communications when my WW and I were living together (checking phone records, etc) it was very one-sided in terms of her chasing him, threatening him when he didn't respond, etc. I also wrote OM several emails; in one he responded that he "did not believe a mother should live an ocean away from her children" … yet he has sustained a relationship with my ex-WW. She still does not have a job over a year later, and I have wondered if OM is holding out hope that outside factors (e.g., visa challenges) force her to leave the UK so his hands are clean. But then again, they are living together so maybe OM indeed wants her to stay.

None of this should matter to me. Like I said, life is good on nearly every dimension. But I cannot rest easily without knowing I did everything for my kids. So I often wonder if going "nuclear" on exposure of OM has any benefit, or if it's too late and would backfire at this point (yes, I should have been more aggressive when it was all going down). Will I feel better afterwards?

Fundamentally I believe the kids should have their mother more present – but I can't control that and even if she were around more, in her current condition she isn't prioritizing them. And part of what's driving my lack of closure is knowing that my ex-WW changed so dramatically and so quickly upon getting involved with OM, that it is almost assured at some point she will realize what she lost … in a way, I'm trying to force the issue by exposing him with the hopes it will snap her out of it and save both her and my kids years of lost time, even though I can't imagine reconciling. 

I know perhaps I should let things take their course and just stay focused on living my own life and taking care of my children ... i.e., I should take the attitude that even though I care about my ex-WW as mother of my children, she's not my problem anymore (regardless of potential root causes or OM's intentions). 

Ok, I'll stop. I've most likely written your eyes off with this novella. Tell me what I need to hear.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

Huh. I'm not sure what is "right" to recommend, in all honesty. I can only tell you what _I'd_ do.

Now, as you probably already realize, exposure is used to shut-down, or at least publicly taint, an affair. Since you've both more or less moved beyond that, I can't see exposure helping you in any way that's not vindictive.

...not that there's anything wrong with being vindictive. 

I have no experience with bipolar disorder or postpartum depression outside of friends who suffer from it. And all I can tell you, based on their experiences, is that it sucks. However, based on stories I've read here on TAM, these are NOT valid reasons for her affair at all. _Cheaters know what they're doing_. It's as simple as that. And this is especially true if she was the aggressor in her affair. No excuses - mental disease or not, she knew exactly what she was getting herself into when she started her affair. She knew exactly what to do to maintain her affair. She knows exactly what to say and do to rub salt in your heart-wound (she "laughed" at your emails to OM? Really? *cough* cvnt *cough*).

With that said, how exactly would exposure complicate things? Beyond her being furious, I mean? What's she going to do if you do expose, after all? Make an angry phone call? Send you an irate email? Screw 'em, says I.

Expose the affair. It's what _I'd_ do, but I'm also a bastard who holds a _mean_ grudge. Expose them both for what they are, to _everyone_ that matters to them. Will it make you look vindictive? Yeah, probably. But who cares? _You_ don't work with them. And it's not like you're lying - especially if you have actual evidence to present while exposing. Make-'em squirm. 

Also, I'm a bit curious about this "sexual harassment" suit your wife allegedly threatened her lover with. Have you spoken to a lawyer about this? Are you entitled to any damages as a result of her lover's actions in ruining your marriage? Can you sue at all? I've heard mention "alienation of affection" suits brought up here on TAM, and I'm curious to know if this can be applied in your case.

Once you've gotten exposure off your chest, hit the dating scene, hard. It sounds like you've already dabbed in it, which is good to hear. At this point, I suspect you need to either:
- let the bad blood out (exposure)
- find an awesome woman to set you straight.

I say do both.

Thanks for sharing your story, and good luck to you.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Why go nuclear? You could actually wind up having your ex back in your life in the US if the OM loses his current job! Do you really want that?

Sure, you can maybe make the argument that it would be better for the kids to have their mom around but do they really need someone around who treats them as a burden, regardless of what issues she may have?

Look, there's plenty of folks out there who suffer from depression issues and bi-polar problems but they didn't move an ocean away from their kids to have sex with someone else.

Personally, in the long term I think your kids would be better off without this disruptive force in their lives but that's just me


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you owe it to your children to go nuclear and you should have done it long ago. 

The OM and your WW feel safe and secure, able to do whatever they want because everyone is afraid of taking action. They used that to hook up in the first place - using your fear of derailing your wife career by not giving her the essentially unlimiited time to be away from her family in order to advance her career, and then later fear of going nuclear that allowed her the freedom to "visit" the UK to continue her affair.

Going nuclear would help knock the wind out of the sails of the OM and bring reality to their relationship - hopefully enough to end it. 

Right now your kids mother has abandoned them so she can run around having a party life with the OM, and by not going nuclear you've let them do it without any negative consequences.

BTW, I would suggest you never ever give permission for the kids to leave the US to visit her until they are 18.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, Since your wife was making good money, and she lost that job because of her affair with the OM - and she is not unemployed - who is paying her part of child support to you?

Did you sue either the company or the OM for damages because they failed to prevent the affair?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, and never waste time talking to an OM. EVER. they are scum who are happy cheating with married women, your words are at best wasted and at worst will be used against you.


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

Thank you all for the responses. Perhaps the best way to explain my current state of mind is that I vacillate between Jibril's & Shaggy's train of thought and Toffer's. You guys stated my two mindsets more eloquently than I did above. Justice (and potential relief) from exposure ... versus acceptance that I've got it relatively good and that my WW returning might be more trouble than it's worth.

A few quick clarifications ...

Re: sexual harassment claims: I don't live in an alienation of affection state. All I've got to go on is the fact my WW threatened to expose him, and that she said he admitted to flirting with her from the very beginning (when both were married). He also told her things like "if we were both single, I'd date you" that encouraged her to take the steps she did ... though I know she still made the choices she did. I've seen the emails to that effect. I also heard secondhand from a former colleague of WW/OM about how OM had tried to get another young 20-something employee drunk one night and made moves on her, which she rebuffed. 

Not sure that's enough for me to make any claim - and it's been a year since they worked together - but had my WW wanted to bring OM down she probably could have (especially given the allegations already against him). He was smart though in that he always caveated any of his comments to the WW with stuff like "you should make your own decisions independent of me or any perceived future with me" ... giving himself plausible deniability and an out if she changes her mind.

Re: keeping the kids in the US. I don't think I have the right to do that. She gets them for up to 6 weeks in the summer. Now I won't fly them over there myself, but if she comes and picks them up I don't think I can stop them from traveling with her (she took them to Spain for a month this past summer). Bottom line is while I won't enable, I do intend to respect our decree and we did not exclude international travel.

Re: child support. Yes she pays me, using the $ from our divorce settlement until she finds a job ... living with OM she has few expenses other than travel back to see kids. Obviously it is good that she is paying this.

Also, just to be clear, my WW has not completely abandoned them. She still calls home a few times a week and talks to the kids on the phone or iPad and does see them every 2-3 months. She believes that this sort of interaction, coupled with fun trips like going skiing, will maintain the bond with her children ... and that she will be a "better mother" because she is now "happy" living in London with OM and not "depressed" living in our town and with me. Still very foggy if you ask me but it's been a year and she has not broken from her script. I know inside that the kids appreciate the simplicities and snuggles of day-to-day life with me but it grates me when I hear her trying to get the kids excited about their next fun trip with mom or what they will do when she comes to visit.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

I vote being the driver of the karma bus.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think it's natural to want some closure. Most people who are cheated on feel tremendous humiliation. Their pride takes a big hit and they somehow believe that the feelings of humiliation must transfer to other people who are on the outside looking in. But they don't transfer. Usually, outsiders lose respect for the cheaters and see the BS as a noble figure.

In your case, you are definitely the one to be admired. In my opinion, it doesn't matter what the two of them think. They are so tainted as human beings by their actions that they can think what they want. The rest of the world has no respect.

Your W seems to be one of the small percentage of people in the world who is pathologically selfish. She hasn't bonded with her children in a natural, normal way & they are extremely lucky to have one parent who loves and really cares for them.

But you know all this. People like me will just reaffirm it.

Since you've read for a while here, you know that there's a script to infidelity. Because we're dealing with human behavior, there's also a script for most of the other experiences in life. This includes your W's move across the ocean.

If your W follows the standard path, she will not be a welcomed addition to life in the UK to anyone except her OM. I predict that he will want to be rid of her sooner rather than later as well. Whatever sense of belonging she might construct for herself there will burn out quickly. Remember that she is the American interloper who broke up two families (nevermind that he got divorced earlier) and is flaunting herself in a culture that would be happy to see the back of her.

This means that she will probably be headed home soon enough. I believe you dodged a bullet in having her show her true colors when she was very young. I fear that the bullet may be headed your way again at some point. If this happens, please remember that there is something very wrong with her for her to leave her children like that. That will never be fixed.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> I vote being the driver of the karma bus.


Put your children on a no travel list. Also see if you can send a letter to UK Immigration to warn them not to accept the children if they travel with your wife or the OM or their agents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

This might sound harsh, but I think you need to focus on protecting your kids from your former wife. 

YOU have been the parent, the one constant in their lives. Your ex-wife fcked around on THEM, abandoned them and really has no business in their lives. She may even try to re-bond with them during her one month - which means they will feel abandoned again when they return home.

I would get advice from others and maybe even a therapist who specializes in children.

But if it was me, I would never allow this woman into my children's lives again.

EDIT to add: What were the terms of your divorce re: your ex-wife's access to her kids?


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

Cedarman said:


> EDIT to add: What were the terms of your divorce re: your ex-wife's access to her kids?


She has visitation rights for one weekend a month, and up to six weeks in the summer (last year she took 4). We alternate major holidays.

She's realizing the challenge of the current arrangement (coming in from London for a Friday 6pm to Sunday 6pm visit) and is placing huge guilt on me to allow her more time for her visits, threatening to go back and try to modify custody. For example, she'll book a trip for a week or more and then try to make me look bad if I "only" allow her the weekend specified in the decree.

But for now I am standing strong on the agreement - if only so that she recognizes the sacrifices and consequences of her decision. Just don't know what is long term best for kids.

And yes, they and I are meeting with a therapist.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

SeekingClosure said:


> She has visitation rights for one weekend a month, and up to six weeks in the summer (last year she took 4). We alternate major holidays.
> 
> She's realizing the challenge of the current arrangement (coming in from London for a Friday 6pm to Sunday 6pm visit) and is placing huge guilt on me to allow her more time for her visits, threatening to go back and try to modify custody. For example, she'll book a trip for a week or more and then try to make me look bad if I "only" allow her the weekend specified in the decree.


The expression "she made her own bed" comes to mind.

She actually has a pretty sweet deal. Only coming in for holidays or for the odd weekend. She gets to be the "good-time" Mom, while you get to be the everyday parent. She's "special" while you're everyday, enforcing rules, homework, etc. Does she realize how lucky she is? I'm guessing not and that she is presenting herself as a "victim" denied access to her "dear children". 

Remind her that her kids were the furthest thing from her mind while she was fcking her boss.

Is there any way you can go for full custody?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She left her kids to be with with her lover in another country. Even he cannot accept that. he will definitely dump her. 

And ruin his professional reputation.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

I concur with Dame, this next year may not go so well for the EXW. The OM knows her story and as the novelty of being with her wears off and her narcissism starts to take its toll on him I suspect he will want to get rid of her. 

Don’t think everything is all roses and puppies with her; she is going to put on a front to make it look like she made the right choice. There’s no way in hell will she let you see any issues with her or the OM.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

What an horrible mother.
What a selfish despicable individual she is.

Sorry man. Be the rock for your kids.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Sorry for your pain. Thank you for sharing your story. I think you did all the right things. I live in Germany and I do know a bit about British immigration. She could file for it easily. My guess is, she want to keep her US Passport in case things go south.
As for your Ex cough cwnt cough. Good Riddence. The other posters have covered what I thought, you might want to move a block away from were you are now and not tell her. hehe Have a good life David


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Ask your lawyer if they have any contacts with solicitors or barristers in the UK. It might be worth getting a UK law firm to act on your behalf in the UK before your ex and her lover decide to try to have your children moved to the UK.

Could you check to ensure she can't have the names of the children added to her passport? Not even sure if that is possible.

By the way, please accept my apologies that a UK person (I hesitate to use the term man) would act in such a caddish and dastardly way.)


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Making you feel guilty? After the horrible selfish things she has done, including abandoning her children? - I don't think there should be anything you should ever feel guilt over with her. 

It is her choice to live in the UK and have such a distance from her kids.

And yes, she did abandon her kids. Seeing them for fun holidays and talking a couple times during the weeks isn't being in their lives. It means she isn't helping with home work, getting them off to school, dealing with play dates, teaching them how to be friends. Dealing with teachers,school, and after school activities. She isn't there for sports, or for scrapped knees, and she isn't there when they get sick and need someone to comfort them.

Bottom line - she isn't there at all as a parent.

I wouldn't be so certain that you have to permit them to leave the US to see her. That isn't a guarenteed right of a divorced parent who does not have primary custody. Sure they have visitation - they come to you and the kids, not the other wayaround.

This is because there have been way too many parents that take off with the kids to foreign countries and then both the parent and the country refuse to return the kid - especially bad in the middle east.

And while you may not have alienation of affect where you live, you may still be able to sue. He wasn't just anyone, he was the CEO of the company. The company themselves eventually terminated him for such stuff. You still might be able to go after him for causing her to leave her job.

You sound like a nice guy. It burns me up to hear about the OM and you lying cheating wife essentially getting away scott free with only the inconvenience for her that she has to deal with jet lag.


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

Thank you all for the advice and supporting words. 

Shaggy, I'm not sure I could sue OM for anything more than emotional distress (and that's not worth the hassle on my end as I'm doing ok now) ... perhaps my XW could have a case for having to leave her job, but right now it's all rainbows and unicorns in her mind ... she genuinely thinks they'll be together forever and doesn't understand why people won't accept that they are "soulmates" and that "if you really love someone you would sacrifice to live where they are" (to which I asked why she didn't want to live by the kids ... got no response to that one)

I'm definitely back and forth on the further exposure. Yes, I feel the truth should be out. Who knows if OM will target other young women at his new company. And I'm not sure if his colleagues or the PE firm backing him knows his history or character. I've been very close to emailing them but held back.

But part of me wonders if exposing would just bring them together in an "us against the world" type of situation. I think that may have happened when I exposed to OM's wife ... granted as mentioned above she was already on her way towards divorce, in her words "now it all makes sense why OM was distant and not putting any effort into our marriage"

And if I were the one blamed for breaking them up, I'm sure my WW would come back with a vindictive streak which would only hurt me and the kids further (this may happen regardless if/when they split ... as she'll realize what she gave up).

My main objective is to keep OM out of my kids' lives. If I can do that, I don't care if my WW is with him or not. So far he has not made any effort to meet the kids so that's good but I fear for this summer if she takes them to UK and is still living with OM. I don't think my decree forbids international travel but will have to check into that. Also, if she has a job by then I'm not sure how she plans to take care of the kids ... she has mentioned wanting my nanny to go to UK but I don't know if that will happen or would be best situation.

Anyway, I'm staying strong and doing the best I can. Life is good. Just gotta keep reminding myself that, enjoying the moments with my kids and with friends. As the saying goes, it's not the cards you are dealt, it's how you play the hand.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

> Fundamentally I believe the kids should have their mother more present – but I can't control that and even if she were around more, in her current condition she isn't prioritizing them. And part of what's driving my lack of closure is knowing that my ex-WW changed so dramatically and so quickly upon getting involved with OM, that it is almost assured at some point she will realize what she lost … in a way, I'm trying to force the issue by exposing him with the hopes it will snap her out of it and save both her and my kids years of lost time, even though I can't imagine reconciling.
> 
> I know perhaps I should let things take their course and just stay focused on living my own life and taking care of my children ... i.e., I should take the attitude that even though I care about my ex-WW as mother of my children, she's not my problem anymore (regardless of potential root causes or OM's intentions)


. 

My story is similar to yours. Take out the globe trotting the situation is similar. I too wondered this. In fact it led to me going to a psyche and spending some time talking it out. 
Here is the result of several weeks internal wrestling with this.

You are not responsible for the relationship that your children have with their Mother.
You should not try and influence or improve it in any way. Your Ex W and your children have to form an independent relationship and it will be tough because she effectively abandoned them. There is nothing you can do about this.
Don't even try. It is her life Her ****ty decisions and she has to deal with it. If you thy and do anything it will be confusing for your kids.. Just be dad. Best Dad you can be. Ignore her bleating and her accusations. 
Oh and how I dealt with the scumbag OM.. "if you come anywhere near my kids...." He doesn't want your kids around anyway. He wants his new girlfriend single. Suits him just fine.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

i seriously don't know what you're looking for.

you pretty much botched every opportunity to expose and salvage your marriage. you basically tried to "nice" her into coming back to you. 

as someone else pointed out, she pretty much abandonded her children in order to be with this man. not even residing in the same country as her children..... WTF is that?!?! shows where her loyalty truly lies. 

she's pretty much globetrotting with this POS while her children are being cared for by you in her absence. i say you stick firm with visitation decree. her threats of revising it are just that- THREATS. there is no way she will seek more time, as she has too much invested in her lover. 


as for exposing. i don't see any point to it. you're pretty much on the late train when it comes to that. if it'll make you feel better, then do it. it would look petty, though. who exactly are you exposing this to. no one is interested to hear of her exploits 2 years out. its a done deal.

furthermore, these people you want to expose him to could care less of his personal life. they're business men. the all-mighty-dollar rules their world. he(OM) could be the biggest prick out there, but as long as he's making these poeple money, they could give a rat's ass about your plight. and as you tell it, mostly everyone else knows she's seeing this man. so again..... who's interested???




> "if you really love someone you would sacrifice to live where they are."


this is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. i mean..... are you frickin' serious?! _"you have two kids to think about, you dumb broad"_ is what i would've told her.


as long as she's with him, there is no way you can stop this man from being in your children's lives. brace yourself.


if its closure you seek, i say move on.


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

ing said:


> .
> You are not responsible for the relationship that your children have with their Mother.
> You should not try and influence or improve it in any way. Your Ex W and your children have to form an independent relationship and it will be tough because she effectively abandoned them. There is nothing you can do about this.
> Don't even try. It is her life Her ****ty decisions and she has to deal with it. If you thy and do anything it will be confusing for your kids.. Just be dad. Best Dad you can be. Ignore her bleating and her accusations.


Thank you ing. This resonates a lot with me ... I'm a problem-solver by nature so I've gone overboard trying to help "fix" the situation in hopes my kids could have a semblance of normality in their relationship with her. But agree that the energy is best focused on something I can control ... my own relationship with them.


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

cledus_snow said:


> as long as she's with him, there is no way you can stop this man from being in your children's lives. brace yourself.


I've prepared myself for that reality. That said, OM knows that seeing my children could trigger me into further exposure. I agree with your points that it is on the late side and is unlikely to change the current situation - and that his professional colleagues may not care since he's making them $ or is their boss - but it's something he may want to avoid. 

Time will tell. Ultimately I can't control it, but I sure as hell will not let him or my WW try to change the narrative and teach my children it is ok to leave a family behind if you are in "love" ... 

Thanks for the honest comments.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

How would any court order in th UK hold water here in the States? The custody arrangement is a formality. Do you honestly think a family court in London is going to spend the money to haul you back there if you don't give her more time with the kids? C'mon, its an empty threat and she is delusional. Your children are better of without this harpy in their lives. Next summer tell her the kids are not coming to see her. She'll have to file suit in the states to get to see them. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

SeekingClosure said:


> But part of me wonders if exposing would just bring them together in an "us against the world" type of situation.


Maybe for a day but this ends up more times than not being the beginning of the end. As the “real” relationship starts to not hold up the fantasy of what the A was, they will start to blame each other for not being able to hold their end up. In an A, each AP puts their best foot forward and a front on for their AP because they are courting each other BUT when they have to deal with them on a day to day basis then the “real” person start to emerge. The WS ends up discovering their AP is not better, and many times much worse, than their BS. 

Of course the last thing they want to do is admit they made a mistake after all the damage they have done so they’ll put on a false front to everyone giving the impression that all is well with them and their AP. 

That’s what happened with my W. Her pride made her try to force it to work with the AP even though she was realizing things were falling apart. I told her that would happen but all that did was make her try to prove me wrong. In hindsight had I told her that she and the AP made a cute couple odds are she would had ended it with him MUCH sooner.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Does she have permission from the courts or divorce paperwork allowing her to take them out of the U.S.?? If not who has their passports? 

When she comes to visit does she stay outside the house?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She has no leg to stand on regarding custody. If the kids were born here then they are citizens and cannot be taken out of the country without the resident parent's consent and a writ.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Do not confuse a birth mom and a mom. She is not a mom. She walked away from young kids. Move on with your life. There are so many great women out there. 

Let her go and live your life. The best revenge is live well.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

SeekingClosure said:


> Thank you ing. This resonates a lot with me ... I'm a problem-solver by nature so I've gone overboard trying to help "fix" the situation in hopes my kids could have a semblance of normality in their relationship with her. But agree that the energy is best focused on something I can control ... my own relationship with them.


iIt's bloody tough though. Here is another psych question..

'do you think, that perhaps, this was your position in the family. Putting yourself as a filter in between the Mother and the children?"

Ding ding..


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

ShootMePlz! said:


> Does she have permission from the courts or divorce paperwork allowing her to take them out of the U.S.?? If not who has their passports?
> 
> When she comes to visit does she stay outside the house?


Our decree does not state anything about international travel one way or the other, i.e. it does not say she CAN take them but likewise there is nothing forbidding that.

I have the kids' passports, and have always given them to her in the past when she has them - she is concerned about flying even domestically because she changed her name back so it now differs from the kids.

Yes, she either stays with a friend or books a hotel / temp. apartment when she comes to visit.


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> How would any court order in th UK hold water here in the States? The custody arrangement is a formality. Do you honestly think a family court in London is going to spend the money to haul you back there if you don't give her more time with the kids? C'mon, its an empty threat and she is delusional. Your children are better of without this harpy in their lives. Next summer tell her the kids are not coming to see her. She'll have to file suit in the states to get to see them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's more the threat of her coming back to our home state and filing for a modification of time, then going back to the UK. She doesn't like the standard terms for a parent "living 100 miles or more away" (one weekend a month) because it is hard to fly back and forth from the UK, and believes I should be flexible and give her more time for her visits. 

I want to stay true to the decree though, so will not inhibit any of her summer time. Though I did not realize as some are suggesting that both parents might have to agree on international travel (since not spelled out in our decree either way).


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> She has no leg to stand on regarding custody. If the kids were born here then they are citizens and cannot be taken out of the country without the resident parent's consent and a writ.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do they need both parent's consent? She still has a US passport and an address here (cheap apartment) so she may technically qualify as a "resident parent" even though she is actually living there and only visiting once every other month or so.


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

Pablo said:


> BTW, have the kids been told about this guy and what he is? That might lessen the chance that he tries to insert himself into their lives in some fashion.
> IMO, you did a great job in every aspect of this. Just stick to the agreement. Nothing more.


Thank you. I have not mentioned OM to the kids. They are young - 5 and 3 - and I am not sure how they would handle. I only speak positively about their mother (WW) to the kids.

Fortunately they have not met OM and I hope that is avoided in the future. So no need. But if I got wind that he would be meeting them (or worse, they would be living with him and WW during the summer), all bets are off!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

5 and 3 geeze

If it was me, I would do what ever it took to make the relatioship as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible, with the intention of getting your kids mother back into there life.

I think the honeymoon will be over soon, but all the same why not push it along with some exposure, a thorn, a pest that won't go away until the kids have there mother back...in the USA.

Who cares how much she hates you for it, but if you could get the kids mother back in there life you will be doing your kids a better service then anything your exWW can throw at you.

It sucks you have to be that guy but when it comes to kids they need there mother in ther life no matter how you go about in forcing her back to the states.

IDK, maybe these kids would be better off not having this kind of women in there life...maybe if the grandmothers are there for the duaghter then maybe its not so bad.

So the question is what kind of mother figure do the kids currently have?

It suck the courts can't force good parenting!!!!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you ever looked into getting her deported from the UK?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I know this is not the way you have been thinking and is not what you want to worry about, but the problem of one spouse just refusing to bring the children back from another country is huge. There is an international treaty that lays down principles regarding this and that many countries are signatories to, including the US, but the local family courts in various countries often pay absolutely no mind to the treaty. Like everyone, they are culturally biased and almost always come down on the side of the spouse residing in their country.

The fact that she is pressuring for more time is a problem for you in this regard. You cannot trust her to honor the custody agreement, in my opinion. Be aware that the Hague Convention treaty basically says that the custody agreement in place before an illegal removal is the one that is legally binding, so you legally have the upper hand not just in your locality, but by international agreement as well.

Please be careful here, though. Talk to your lawyer about further options for safeguarding against illegal international travel on her part with your children.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

If these were my children I would do every thing possible to insure their safety and forbid ANY movement outside the United States with out my prior approval. Screw staying true to the Decree, good intentions fvck over good people!!


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

SeekingClosure said:


> Do they need both parent's consent? She still has a US passport and an address here (cheap apartment) so she may technically qualify as a "resident parent" even though she is actually living there and only visiting once every other month or so.


As I understand it, because they reside with you most of the year, you have primary custody and the County Court or District Court where you reside would have to issue her an order that would allow her to take the children out of the country. 

See a lawyer, I could be wrong.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

International travel is fine and good until you piss her off. Then she's got them over in Spain or UK or where ever and you're in the States. How will you get them back? Even if you do, how much time and money will you spend. She can visit them on this side of the pond.

I vote for the no fly list.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

kenmoore14217 said:


> If these were my children I would do every thing possible to insure their safety and forbid ANY movement outside the United States with out my prior approval. *Screw staying true to the Decree, good intentions fvck over good people!*!




:iagree:


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

Update:

I have not (yet) exposed, though I have drafted a letter to OM's work colleagues. Feels good to write, not sure if I will send or not at this point. Part of me wants to just for closure's sake. But I don't want to appear weak or vindictive. My main focus would be to inform them of the affair, and most importantly let them know that their CEO is supporting a mother who abandoned her children.

I have held strong on my refusal to get passports or allow international travel. This has caused my exWW to explode and call me all sorts of names. I have done my best to ignore. These are her consequences. 

ExWW did finally get a job in London, starting in May as soon as the company gets her visa sorted out. She's apparently working for the UK CEO of a major international PR/media firm. Fortunately this CEO is female so she is unlikely to repeat her history 

One nice thing is that because of her visa issues, she decided to take 4 of her 6 summer weeks "early" and has visited them in Texas where we live over the past month. So this decreases potential summer time when she wants them in the UK. I am still refusing to allow international travel and requesting that she come to the US if she wants to see them. Now that she has a job she says this is unreasonable (but doesn't most of Europe get August off?)

Most frustrating is the fact that over the past few weeks she has had them in Texas, she did not rent a car and thus she took them out of school, did not bring them to soccer or T-ball games or practices, and so forth. It's just all fun, all the time. Surely cannot be good for the routine.

Worst of all, tonight I call to talk to the children and ex-WW puts our 5 year old son on the phone and he asks if he can go to CA with her (she is going there for a week to visit mutual friends, before she returns to London). 

Note that this is during the first week I have the kids back after several weeks with her, and beyond that she proceeds to tell me I would have to pay for it and he would need to fly by himself.

Assuming it is an innocent question, I tell my son that we need to think about it since that is time he and his sister will be with daddy, and that I was planning a family trip to CA with all of us. I figure that's enough and I change the topic to ask about their days, and ex-WW jumps in and tells my son to ask me WHY he can't go with mommy to CA. 

I tell her this is completely uncalled for and unfair to put our son in the middle. She then takes the iPad away from our son, and yells at me for at least 3 straight minutes about how I'm selfish, a horrible parent for not doing what is best for the children, and how (this is the kicker) she has been talking to the OM in front of the children every day and they know all about him ... but that our son told her "he doesn't want a stepmom" 

Fortunately I'm confident enough to recognize that this is just her insecurity kicking in, especially because I have not given in on her demands with regards to international travel. 

On this note, I did speak to a family law attorney at one of the best firms in town, and he felt my position was strong and there were many protections I could put in place. So I feel good. Ex-WW apparently believes from her attorney that the courts will side with allowing the children to leave. 

We are going to mediation next week to resolve the visitation issue - the mediator is a former judge who should be able to give us insight into how the courts will see our disagreements. I'm not sure how it will work out but please wish me luck. It pains me to see my former wife like this, but I know I need to be strong for my children. 

Hopefully the law is aligned with my position, and it forces my ex-WW to snap out of it (or if she truly wants to prioritize her OM and new career over the children, at least it will be even more clear). She'll blame me either way, I'm prepared for that.

Any further thoughts, advice, or words of support welcome. I really just needed to let this out as I don't want to burden my friends with it all. Thanks!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, she will need to file and pay us taxes on the money she earns in the UK even if she leaves the us to live there

Why are you delaying sending the truth,


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

Shaggy - thanks.

I previously held off exposing OM at his new company hoping (naively) parties would come to their senses. I don't know what if any effect exposure would have on OM's job so I wanted to tread carefully in case it resolved itself. And he's CEO so I'm sure he would just try to dismiss me as the "vindictive ex-husband" given the timing.

Now I'm holding off mainly because she is back in the US with the kids right now. Given she is often unstable, I would not want to risk the fall-out when the children are in her possession.

On the bright side, at least her new company is global with offices in the US. So if she does ever come around, she may be able to transfer over. For this reason I may not expose at her new workplace. 

OM on the other hand I want nothing to do with my children, ever.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

I've seen and read some sick stuff over the years but your wife, how she left her kids behind and moved to a different continent to be with her OM, truly tops everything I've seen so far.

At least those kids have a father like you, I wish you good luck.

ps, do everything you can to deny the kids traveling overseas.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

SeekingClosure said:


> Shaggy - thanks.
> 
> I previously held off exposing OM at his new company hoping (naively) parties would come to their senses. I don't know what if any effect exposure would have on OM's job so I wanted to tread carefully in case it resolved itself. And he's CEO so I'm sure he would just try to dismiss me as the "vindictive ex-husband" given the timing.
> 
> ...


Ok, you are never going to act then because there is always another reason to do nothing.

She's not coming around. Not ever. Shes got no respect for you, none. Perhaps if you nuked the OM way back she would see you differently, but he won the battle when you refused to take him on.

You are better off without her , she sounds like a cold heartless evil woman who dumped her kids do she could move across the world do she could get laid by her old boss.


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

If the kids have seen the OM then the reason you held off on exposure has been breeched. You should expose. Or continue deluding yourself and creating more reasons for not exposing.


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## SeekingClosure (Jan 24, 2013)

I think the point has been made. Thanks all for hitting me with the sledgehammer. I've got to expose to move on. 

Plan to wait until after UK spring break though, since I assume many folks are out of office this week and next, for best potential impact.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I truly feel awful that you and your children are in this situation and I sure hope that you can get full custody. Your W does not sound like she is a fit mother at this point. 

I pray for you and your children's sake, that your W will hit a dead end and realize what a lunatic she is being.


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