# I "caught" him



## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

I was upstairs in our bed studying this morning and when I came downstairs, he was on the computer, where I knew he was, but he had just finished, ahem, enjoying his alone time with the computer, if you know what I mean. He zipped up his pants quick and had this sheepish grin on his face like I caught a five year old with his hand in the candy jar. I asked if I busted him and he told me yeah, then gave me a hug. 

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I don't know what he was looking at, don't really care. I get this oogie feeling inside though. 

I know he does it, that's not the issue. He knows I do it. Sometimes we do it together and that's fine. But when he does it alone, I REALLY don't want to know about it. It's all in light of our recent sexual problems. Like I was never good enough before to have sex with, but now he's got to do that and not come to me? But if he does come to me, I don't want him either. I'm still in such a confused state, it's horrible. I feel like I haven't progressed any and the issue just gets pushed further under the rug, thus not seen so much anymore. I don't think it's getting fixed. See my thread on "my give a damn's busted" to come up to speed with all that if you're interested. 

Guess I'll just tell him I do not want to know when he does it, and please don't do it when I can catch him, it really affects me. 

How do you all deal with "double clicking your own mouse"?


----------



## Uglee70 (Jan 2, 2009)

I think it would be fair to say that all men masturbate. I don't know about women because it's not a subject that comes up in our house. 

It's a great way to relieve boredom, stress, frustration etc. and it doesn't neccessarily mean he finds you any less desireable. Just relax and accept the fact that your man is just like 99% of men and masturbates. I'd be happy if I knew my wife did it!


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bhappy3-
How often have you guys been having sex lately?
And have you been rejecting him?


----------



## marlborolights (Jan 21, 2009)

Have you ever considered giving him, as a gift maybe, (hey V-day is coming up!" a photo album filled with risque and nude photos of yourself? You could immulate the same poses and actions those women on the computer to. You know the things he likes...do them and take naughty tastelful photos. even raunchy ones! At least this way when he mastrubates its at least to an image of you, and will give you a bit of an ego boost rather than the opposite, a feeling of inadequacy that is caused when a husband uses other images to get off.


----------



## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

MT... things are still not good. I think counseling is in order, for me at least. I'm having a hard time getting past everything. Sex... a lot less frequently, I don't know, once/week, twice in two, I'm not sure. I guess I still am rejecting him, it's an extremely sensitive issue for me. To the same token though, I still won't approach him for it, no matter how badly I want it, unless I'm feeling gullable, and that doesn't happen too often. I just have all this pain built up from 12 years of rejection and his selfishness that I don't know how to get past. 

Friday I told him I wanted some alone time for just the two of us. Monday he said we could have that alone time on Tuesday. We spent the time together, but he was so distant. We didn't talk. I tried to break the ice by smiling about the silliest thing, and he didn't react. I don't get it. He was opening the car door for me and all, but the look on his face was distant and burdened. I'm supposed to be turned on by that? Communication is becoming less and less. It's labored for him to talk to me. I don't get it. 

marlboro... yes, for our five year anniversary I had professional pics taken of me in the nude. The man loves pics and taking them of me. I HATE doing it. 

It doesn't matter who he was looking at on the computer, me or other women, I still get this yucky feeling about it. I was never ever like that before and I always encouraged him doing that. But now with this recent shutdown of me, it all bothers me. 

I guess by typing on here it's just pretty apparent I need some professional help because this thing isn't going to work itself out on its own. 

Thank you guys for your input.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bhappy3-

I have found it real hard to get info on why men go off sex, but one thing I did find was that being rejected for sex often enough can cause some men never to ask again...

You seem to be saying the same:


bhappy3 said:


> To the same token though, I still won't approach him for it, no matter how badly I want it, unless I'm feeling gullable, and that doesn't happen too often. I just have all this pain built up from 12 years of rejection and his selfishness that I don't know how to get past.


----------



## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

I think your "sex issues" are just a manifestation of other deeper issues between the two. Fixing the sex issues wont fix your relationship issues. 
I agree with you on the porn issue. I would never subject my wife to me doing that IF I indeed did that. overall I find porn to be harmful to a relationship because the focus should be on the two people. You cant expend energy on virtual women and then expect a complete connection between you and your "live" woman. I know I probably represent a minority of men on the porn issue but after years of practising spirtualism I can tell you that on a very deep level it's damaging to couples. I also dont want to sound moralistic about it because I used to engage in that very behavour so I know how addictive it is.


----------



## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

You're right MT... exactly right. I still have the physical drive for it, but to think of going to him for it will put that heat out faster than a polar ice plunge. Something has to give. I did enjoy sex. I want sex (sometimes BADLY). But I absolutely, positively, do not, under any circumstances want it from him. It turns my stomach and I feel like I'm kissing my brother or something. 

Brad, you're right too. The lack of sex is because of the lack of attention and connection. We DO NOT connect anymore. I will try and he'll reject me. He'll try and I'll reject him. I never had a problem with porn before, it was always kept under control, and it still isn't out of hand or anything. Every man does their own business, and I understand that. Shoot, I do too. I'm just so upset about it now b/c of the situation we're in. For all I know, he could have been looking at the pics he has of me. Either way, it disgusts me. Yes, now I'm upset b/c he's putting energy into that and not us. Not that I want the sex, that's a long long way off, but he could spend that effort on our relationship. 

At any rate, I'm in great pain. I told him last night, like I've told him before, that I'm DONE. I even took my rings off. Haven't put them back on either. I've NEVER done that before, I always wear my rings, always. I don't even cry anymore when we discuss things. It reminds me of when I was 18 and broke up with my b/f... I just walked away from a 2+ year relationship and never cried or looked back. 

Today H was all lovey and kiss a*ss again. I got some things accomplished around the house... new lock on the door (needed done for oh, seven years?), fixed leaky faucet. All huggy kissy (yuck). Acting like I didn't say I was DONE. 

There is no mental/emotional connection. He finally joined a marriage forum, not this one. If he'd spend half the time on that that he does on his softball forum, we could probably make some progress. He's just so engulfed in his hobbies and I resent them so much. They get all his effort and attention and I get whatever sloppy seconds/thirds are leftover. It's not fair to me or our family. 

I also realized last night that he always contradicts me. If I say he'll love something, he says he hates it. If I say go right, he goes left. If I laugh at a joke, he snickers at it. The happier I am about something, the more indifferent he is about it. When I went to him for sex, he denied me and came to me an hour later, on his terms. I am completely invalidated by him. That's why everything I've said for the past umpteen years has gone in one ear and out the other. He doesn't see anything I say as valid and disregards it. So, I've crumbled. There is only so much a person can take of being denied and invalidated. **NOTE... he does almost always listen to me and follow my lead when it comes to parenting our daughter. But that doesn't outweigh the everyday contradictions, as the issues with our child only come up once every few months.

I just can't take it anymore. I knew it would come to this someday and here we are. I'm not sure I can turn around, like when I was 18 with the b/f. Now what?


----------



## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

To break your problem down if he's not having sex then its obvious he's going to masturbate, if you know he masturbates the fact that you've caught him doing it is incidental and you really can't hold it against him.

Whatever your problems are using sex as a weapon is not a good idea. It just leaves both parties feeling bitter. If you're married sex is going to be part of that relationship and both people need to make an effort. 

If I was in your shoes I'd make the effort to have sex even when I didn't neccessarily feel like, if for no other reason than my ego couldn't stand the thought of my SO wanking in front of a computer.

I'd give it a few days to take effect then I'd develop a zero tolerance approach to any of his bs, passive aggressive nonsense needs to be challenged head on, not with some sulk but with shouting and screaming if neccessary.


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

I think the golden rule as far as husbands , porn and masturbation is concerned is this: unless and until his auto sexuality begins to effect the relationship sexually, leave him alone. All men do masturbate and very often men in long term relationships feel they need some variety now and then.

The mistake women make is to believe that when a man uses porn and masturbates that he is cheating in some way. This belief is rooted in the way women perceive sexuality, as an exchange of intimacy.

Men however are able to separate sex and love and do not consider a self induced orgasm as anything other than a satiation of a need. somewhat like having a hamburger when you're hungry. In other words men can fuse sex and intimacy with a partner they care about but bringing himself to orgasm is also considered little more than a recreational activity that is completely removed from his feelings for that partner.


----------



## yesterday (Feb 6, 2009)

Wow! Half-way threw this thread I seriously wondered if you are my wife! Very similar circumstances, albeit I was caught 14 years ago. Around this time, early in our marriage, something changed with the sex. I was not strong enough then to deal with the rejection when I asked for sex and she declined. It's not that my masterbation frequency increased, but I did turn to porn to spice it up. She caught me, told me she did not like me doing it, I asked why (I would happily turn my attention to her if she wished) and did not get a clear response, so secretly continued with the porn. She caught me again and I thought she was going to leave me. I came 100% clean, showed her what I was viewing, and stopped all together.

We are still married and this issue is in the past - I think. However, I still wonder why she feels threatened by the porn and/or my masterbation. We used to talk openly about it, she does it, I do it. I would have sex with her anytime, anywhere.

Keep working to understand the core issue for you. Chances are if you do not feel wanted by him, it is deeper than the porn.


----------



## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

Mr B said:


> I think the golden rule as far as husbands , porn and masturbation is concerned is this: unless and until his auto sexuality begins to effect the relationship sexually, leave him alone. All men do masturbate and very often men in long term relationships feel they need some variety now and then.


I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Masturbation isn't something that I'd tolerate any man that I was in a relationship doing.


----------



## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

Yeah, this will be funny, me saying this here... Sarah... men are going to do it whether you tolerate it or not, period, THAT you just need to accept, and aren't going to change. 

That said, him doing it isn't my problem... it's the fact that I caught him. If he wants to do it, fine, do it. Do it when I'm not home and I'm not going to catch you. For now at least. Right now I'm so disgusted with sex and any thought of sex, that included. I don't want to think about it, and to find him doing something so personal, just eeww. I do find time to do it for myself, but even that has become few and far between, quick, and boring almost, too.


----------



## TGolbus (Nov 3, 2008)

Happy - what exactly is the problem then? Sounds like there are issues in your relationship....you caught him doing something that you know he does, and you have done yourself. I am not casting stones, I do and my wife is aware (I never choose that over her, she just can't keep up ;-))
What has you so upset?


----------



## HusbandFatherSonBrother (Feb 7, 2009)

sarah.rslp said:


> I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Masturbation isn't something that I'd tolerate any man that I was in a relationship doing.


sarah.rslp, I think you need to understand that there are two kinds of men. Those that masturbate, and those that lie about it.

For myself, masturbation has nothing to do with sex. Honestly. I can masturbate, and then have sex. Likewise the other way around. And porn isn't necessary, I can masturbate just fine without it. It's just more fun with it.

I see a lot of posts on these forums by women who think that there men should not need to masturbate if they are in a relationship. But, demanding that they stop just forces your man "underground" and possibly lie to you (or at least just not say anything at all).

Most of us men have grown up with shame and embarrassment about our masturbation. My wife says that I am welcome to masturbate with her, but I just can't bring myself to do it. That's just how I was brought up.

bhappy3: I completely respect your point of view. If he's going to do that, AND he knows you don't like it, then he should respect you enough to keep it private to himself. And he should be EXTRA careful with kids in the house.


----------



## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

:iagree:

I can wack off 2 or 3 times a day, waiting for my wife to get home from work, then I go to work on her... :smthumbup:

masturbation is something every guy does, Except for mark...lol


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> masturbation is something every guy does, Except for mark...lol


Me? I do it, but I don't allow it to proceed to ejaculation. Some of you guys must be sperm machines


----------



## nascarfan (Feb 9, 2009)

We both do it. We both tell each other about it.

I have to agree with everyone that said guys are going to do it whether or "allow it" or not.


----------



## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

TGolbus said:


> Happy - what exactly is the problem then? Sounds like there are issues in your relationship....you caught him doing something that you know he does, and you have done yourself. What has you so upset?



I'm going to start a new thread in the general relationship section. =)


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

sarah.rslp said:


> I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Masturbation isn't something that I'd tolerate any man that I was in a relationship doing.


You're still pretty young Sarah. I think you'll find that after you have been in a relationship for a decade or more that no matter how gorgeous and sexually exciting you are, your man will take matters into his own hands now and then. If you disapprove it just means he will go to further lengths to hide it from you.

Like I said in my other post it really has nothing to do with you as a partner. It's simply a guy thing.


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sarah.rslp said:


> I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Masturbation isn't something that I'd tolerate any man that I was in a relationship doing.


Woah, you wouldn't tolerate your husband masturbating?

You better be willing to have sex 2-3 times a day for that to even be realistic.

I can understand having a problem with porn, but masturbating in general?


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

nascarfan said:


> We both do it. We both tell each other about it.
> 
> I have to agree with everyone that said guys are going to do it whether or "allow it" or not.



When my wife and I were first married I would not necessarily "hide" it from her, just would do it when she wasn't around (and I didn't use porn). I wouldn't lie about it either, if she asked, I'd be honest and say "yeah, sometimes" well, sometimes should have been translated "most days" of course.

However, since my wife turned 30 she has been VERY open sexually and since then I have just got to the point where I tell her every time. 

Like if its Saturday morning, she gets up out of bed and I'm laying there (she doesn't like morning sex) I will wait for her to go downstairs and I'll take care of business. I'll go downstairs and tell her about it...now that she's more open sexually it actually turns her on a little if I tell her.

Then later that night when we are going to bed she'll initiate sex because she's been thinking about the fact that I masturbated all day.

Like I said in my above post, any woman who thinks their husband shouldn't masturbate at all should be ready to have sex 2-3 times a day. If they aren't then get used to the fact that he'll masturbate.

The only time masturbation hurts a relationship is when it is done and then the person turns down sex with their spouse.

My wife knows me, and knows that its "anytime anywhere" in the sex department. There have been times when I had just masturbated in the bathroom or something because I assumed from the day she/we had there would be no sex that night...only to find out she did want it. Man that is hard to "get going" right after rubbing one off, but I did it anyway because there was no way I was turning her down right after masturbating.


----------



## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> Woah, you wouldn't tolerate your husband masturbating?
> 
> You better be willing to have sex 2-3 times a day for that to even be realistic.
> 
> I can understand having a problem with porn, but masturbating in general?


Maturbation is a crude empty solitary activity and I couldn't be in a relationship with a man that would do it rather than find a proper outlet for his sex drive.

If you're in a relationship then you have an obligation sexually to the other person, So yeah if a guy in a relationship with me was wanking then it wouldn't be because of a lack of opportunity for actual sex.

Doesn't that program you were peddling cover it? What would Jesus do?


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sarah.rslp said:


> Maturbation is a crude empty solitary activity and I couldn't be in a relationship with a man that would do it rather than find a proper outlet for his sex drive.
> 
> If you're in a relationship then you have an obligation sexually to the other person, So yeah if a guy in a relationship with me was wanking then it wouldn't be because of a lack of opportunity for actual sex.
> 
> Doesn't that program you were peddling cover it? What would Jesus do?


Ok, if the wife isn't giving it up as much as the man wants, what is better, he sits in the bathroom and does it him self with no porn (I honestly think of my wife when I'm masturbating), or go looking for a sexual release elsewhere?

I'm sorry Sarah, but like I said above, unless the wife is willing to go 2-3 times a day, the man will masturbate, period.

I would bet my next paycheck that your significant other does and either you don't know about it or something along those lines.

Actually that "book I was peddling" hasn't talked about masturbation at all yet, but I'm only half way through.

You and I agree, however, that we have a sexual obligation to our spouses, and if masturbation EVER replaces a time when the wife is willing/wants sex, then it is wrong in a healthy relationship.

However, if the wife is too tired, has a headache, etc etc then in my mind its 100% ok, its 100 times better than the alternatives.

I honestly find it hard to believe you've never or your husband has never masturbated in your relationship. 

My wife actually gets turned on if she knows I masturbated that day.

And to be quite honest, yes, when sex is happening regularly (at least every night) the need to masturbate is NOT there at all and I never do. Its when sex "dries up" for a day or 2 that the need arises so to speak. 

Sarah, you must be an amazing woman to be giving your husband sex at least once a day everyday.


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sarah.rslp said:


> Maturbation is a crude empty solitary activity and I couldn't be in a relationship with a man that would do it rather than find a proper outlet for his sex drive.


So, the times when you aren't willing or not in the mood, what would be a "proper outlet for his sex drive" other than masturbation?

I'm willing to try anything, fill us all in.


----------



## kleinebuste (Feb 5, 2009)

Sarah, I truly hope for your sake that you do happen to find a man that does not masturbate, because otherwise you will have a very lonely life. Too bad as you will likely pass up a lot of good men out there just because of your insecurities.


----------



## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> So, the times when you aren't willing or not in the mood, what would be a "proper outlet for his sex drive" other than masturbation?


Nothing good ever happens when one partner in a relationshp turns sex on and off like a tap. Thats how it starts and then next you're shopping for crappy self help books and whinging on here that you're marraige is turning to poo. Well why wouldn't I be willing? and as for mood it helps if you get enough control of your body so its not really an issue.



kleinebuste said:


> Sarah, I truly hope for your sake that you do happen to find a man that does not masturbate, because otherwise you will have a very lonely life. Too bad as you will likely pass up a lot of good men out there just because of your insecurities.


So there are blokes out there that are in relationship with women, and lacking the balls to initiate sex with their gfs they slink off for sneaky little wanks in front of their laptops or whatever? well sounds like I really lost out.

I was in 7 proper relationships before I married, and all of the men I've been with would consider sex with me to be a super alternative to masturbation.


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

In my experience women who would deny their husbands a little solo fantasy sex now and then tend to suffer from low self esteem and are the jealous types, always on the lookout should their man glance at a hot babe at the mall.

Again, a married man who masturbates once in awhile is NOT rejecting his partner. Men can easily separate love and sex and for men sex can be either a show of intimacy or a form of easy recreation.

Any woman ready to pounce on a husband who spends a little too much time in the bathroom once in awhile is in for a bucketful of heartache and is putting herself in a real no win situation. 

Relax, see it for what it really is, and go with the flow. Your life and your marriage will go much more smoothly if you do.


----------



## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> Ok, if the wife isn't giving it up as much as the man wants, what is better, he sits in the bathroom and does it him self with no porn (I honestly think of my wife when I'm masturbating), or go looking for a sexual release elsewhere?


I'm confused I though you were a mature adult not some horny little teenager, so all those times you slink of for a wank you're thinking about your wife? lucky her. So rather than trying to initiate sex with your wife or at least let her know that you're in the mood you just want to sort yourself out okay fine.



revitalizedhusband said:


> I'm sorry Sarah, but like I said above, unless the wife is willing to go 2-3 times a day, the man will masturbate, period.


You see here's why I find your post so offensive and why I've basically given up trying to reason with you. *YOU WILL MASTURBATE* not every man *YOU* don't excuse your behaviour with the childish whine oh every body does it boo hoo.



revitalizedhusband said:


> I would bet my next paycheck that your significant other does and either you don't know about it or something along those lines.


Again you just can't comprehend why everybody doesn't have the same immature stunted view of sex that you do.




revitalizedhusband said:


> Actually that "book I was peddling" hasn't talked about masturbation at all yet, but I'm only half way through.


You're only half way through? I love how that doensn't stop you promoting it. Next time instead of wanking yourself on the toilet when you're bored finish it, it'll give you something to do.

The book was written by an evangelical Christian and for all their faults their beliefs are pretty straight forward and concrete, so porn and wanking yourself well it probably didn't even occur to the author. Do I need to quote from the bible or something to back it up?


----------



## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

sarah.rslp said:


> Maturbation is a crude empty solitary activity and I couldn't be in a relationship with a man that would do it rather than find a proper outlet for his sex drive.
> 
> If you're in a relationship then you have an obligation sexually to the other person, So yeah if a guy in a relationship with me was wanking then it wouldn't be because of a lack of opportunity for actual sex.
> 
> Doesn't that program you were peddling cover it? What would Jesus do?


I don't think I will ever understand your point of view on this. 

I was recently at the doctor and she explained to me that it is very good for my prostate to ejaculate 5-7 times a week. On that note, we have two small children, and I work long hours. There is no way I can expect my wife to get up at 4 in the morning for relations, nor can I stay up late that often. Being that I produce more sperm than the normal person, it is medically important for me to have a release, as it causes tenderness and pain if I do not. Relieving pain, and keeping a healthy prostate does not sound crude, nor empty to me...


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

sarah.rslp said:


> Nothing good ever happens when one partner in a relationshp turns sex on and off like a tap. Thats how it starts and then next you're shopping for crappy self help books and whinging on here that you're marraige is turning to poo. Well why wouldn't I be willing? and as for mood it helps if you get enough control of your body so its not really an issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One thing is clear - we need more women like you.

I must say, even before I started semen retention, I never liked to jack off to completion even if my wife turned me down for sex (which was not all that often), because the release of ejaculation would lower my libido and make me desire her less. This is enough to produce a downward spiral with some couples. Throw in porn, and sex is sneaking out of the window and down the street never to return.

However Sarah... woman like you, who never turn down their hubbys are rare.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Dancing Nancie said:


> I don't think I will ever understand your point of view on this.
> 
> I was recently at the doctor and she explained to me that it is very good for my prostate to ejaculate 5-7 times a week. On that note, we have two small children, and I work long hours. There is no way I can expect my wife to get up at 4 in the morning for relations, nor can I stay up late that often. Being that I produce more sperm than the normal person, it is medically important for me to have a release, as it causes tenderness and pain if I do not. Relieving pain, and keeping a healthy prostate does not sound crude, nor empty to me...


this is very true. i have fewer issues when i ejaculate regularly. my wife has a fairly low sex drive, once a week is great for her, and i love her. i dont force myself on her. once a week dont work for me. i can try to initiate sex with her but to be honest, repeated rejection is much more damaging to my marriage than me handling my own business.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Dancing Nancie said:


> I don't think I will ever understand your point of view on this.
> 
> I was recently at the doctor and she explained to me that it is very good for my prostate to ejaculate 5-7 times a week. On that note, we have two small children, and I work long hours. There is no way I can expect my wife to get up at 4 in the morning for relations, nor can I stay up late that often. Being that I produce more sperm than the normal person, it is medically important for me to have a release, as it causes tenderness and pain if I do not. Relieving pain, and keeping a healthy prostate does not sound crude, nor empty to me...


Well I am 42 and practise semen retention and only ejaculate once per month on average, despite the fact we have sex most days. My prostate feels fine. There is very little study on men who practice semen retention outside of China...

Pre-cum is produced when I have sex, so it's not as if the plumbing is not getting something flowing through it. 

Before I started semen retention, I ejaculated 3-4 times per week during sex. I suppose the average was 3 times per week as 4 times was not that often, and only twice was too often! I often felt drained after cumming if the orgasm was not absolutly top notch.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

It must also be remembered that the thread starter tried for ages to get her husband to have sex. Then when he finally understood and started initiating, she started turning him down. This is no way to run a marriage...


----------



## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> It must also be remembered that the thread starter tried for ages to get her husband to have sex. Then when he finally understood and started initiating, she started turning him down. This is no way to run a marriage...


My wife had zero drive after our second child for two years, and the constant rejection is very hard to overcome. When she started to initiate, I will say that I didn't want it anymore. I knew that she was making an effort, and would accept. It's no way to run a marriage, but with that much bitterness built up, it's understandable. Overcoming that bitterness will be key for her to move forward.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Dancing Nancie-

Did you get zero for two years?
And can you explain more about how you did not want it? I think I understand but...


----------



## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Dancing Nancie-
> 
> Did you get zero for two years?
> And can you explain more about how you did not want it? I think I understand but...


It wasnt zero, but once a month or so, and it was pitty sex when I did get it. 

I didn't want it because I wanted to take control back of the situation. I had no say over what we did, or when we did it. I wanted to have some control, and in some way let her see how it felt to be rejected.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Dancing Nancie-
How long ago was that and how are things now?


----------



## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

Dancing Nancie said:


> I didn't want it because I wanted to take control back of the situation. I had no say over what we did, or when we did it. I wanted to have some control, and in some way let her see how it felt to be rejected.


This is what I meant when I referred to turning sex on and off like a tap, using it as a weapon in a relationship. Nothing good ever happens when you do it. 

When you enter into a monogamous relationship not just marraige you're making a series of commitments to the other person and one of them is that you're going to make a fair effort to meet your partners sexual needs.

Years ago with my second boyfriend, I'd gotten back from a long army exercise, and I was horny as hell. So anyway when I came after the fourth shag in a couple of hours he stopped and roled over in bed knackered. I asked him why he didn't keep going untill he had finished and he just shrugged, he wasn't horny but he was doing it cause I was,as far as he was concerned he was my bf and he was going to sort me out when I needed it. 

I've noticed that with the majority of my bf's hubby included some times once I've orgasmed they'll story and lose their erection. Now basic biology will tell you its harder for men to perform when they're not really into it than women, but that's just what proper men do.

Hubby loves it when he gets to shag him and I'm not looking to orgasm, cause I act a little girly and we do it in missionary, he knows I'm doing it for him there's no pressure on him, its actually quite intimite and sometimes we'll talk a little during it. I actually enjoy it in a non sexual way.

Anyway sorry but masturbation is for losers


----------



## onlylonelyone (Jan 26, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Well I am 42 and practise semen retention and only ejaculate once per month on average, despite the fact we have sex most days. My prostate feels fine. There is very little study on men who practice semen retention outside of China...
> 
> Pre-cum is produced when I have sex, so it's not as if the plumbing is not getting something flowing through it.
> 
> Before I started semen retention, I ejaculated 3-4 times per week during sex. I suppose the average was 3 times per week as 4 times was not that often, and only twice was too often! I often felt drained after cumming if the orgasm was not absolutly top notch.


Mark, What is the purpose of semen retention? Genuinly curious....I really don't understand why anyone would be upset catching their spouse masterbate  Especially if they do it to themself...very confusing


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

sarah.rslp said:


> When you enter into a monogamous relationship not just marraige you're making a series of commitments to the other person and one of them is that you're going to make a fair effort to meet your partners sexual needs.


Yes, this is what believe. By the same token, if I was in a relationship with a totally disinterested partner I would be looking for the exit, pretty dam quick. I don't believe in staying for the kids. I think that usually gives them a worse childhood.

Imagine growing up in a loveless home. Well, a lot of people on this forum don't need to imagine - they lived it. Having looked into it for a while, I've found that growing up in a sexless home is one of the few sure-fire things that puts men of sex in later life. Not casual sex, but sex with a long-term partner or spouse.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

onlylonelyone said:


> Mark, What is the purpose of semen retention? Genuinly curious....I really don't understand why anyone would be upset catching their spouse masterbate  Especially if they do it to themself...very confusing


Semen Retention is when a man deliberately has sex, but holds off cumming. There are different ways of doing it, but the way I do it is to get to the edge of almost cumming, and then try to stay on that edge for the rest of the session, by going faster and slower as needed. 

The woman gets the benefit of being able to have her man "do her" as many times a day as she wants as there is no refractory period. 

At first the man finds it boring, but after a few weeks new sensations take over, and of course, not cumming makes me very very horny indeed. The guy that got me into it never cums at all, but I am a on once a month at the moment. I wrote about it here: Semen Retention

In reference to the second part of your question, some women object to men masturbating if it means they have less desire for the wife. When I got to 38ish I did not want to cum more than 3 times a week, or the orgasms got boring. So I were to have wanked as well, I would have wanted less sex.

When I was 18 I liked to cum 3 times a day.

So another way of putting it is that it allows me to have as much sex as when I was 18! MMMmmm And I get more out of it now.


----------



## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Dancing Nancie-
> How long ago was that and how are things now?


It was last June or so when we decided to work on our marriage. Things are a ton better now, although there is still a long way to go. We have sex now about twice a week. Although I need closer to 5, I think that as she becomes happier and healthier it will happen.


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sarah.rslp said:


> I'm confused I though you were a mature adult not some horny little teenager, so all those times you slink of for a wank you're thinking about your wife? lucky her. So rather than trying to initiate sex with your wife or at least let her know that you're in the mood you just want to sort yourself out okay fine.


Have you actually read what you are posting and I'm the one acting like a "teenager"? 

1. Yes, the times I have masturbated it has been to the thoght of my wife.
2. Its not an every day, or even every week, occurance, its when I'm extremely horny and she is not in the mood, is sick, etc. There have been far fewer times I've taken care of my own business in the last 4 or 5 months due to her sex drive increasing, no doubt about that.
3. She always knows when I'm in the mood and I initiate sex all the time, so you are way off base with that.




> You see here's why I find your post so offensive and why I've basically given up trying to reason with you. *YOU WILL MASTURBATE* not every man *YOU* don't excuse your behaviour with the childish whine oh every body does it boo hoo.


I'm offensive? You are calling people inmature, childish, whining, etc...read your own posts for once.

I haven't "whined" at all, I haven't acted childish at all, you on the other hand have come out with the name calling, whining, etc aspects that definitely sound childish to me.

I do not "excuse" my behavior at all, I don't think its wrong to take care of yourself sexually if the other partner is unwilling or unable at the time to do so. You and I agree on one aspect, porn=wrong, but masturbation is not.




> Again you just can't comprehend why everybody doesn't have the same immature stunted view of sex that you do.


I'm no expert on sex, but I believe you will find that my belief that masturbation is ok in certain circumstances is by far in the majority while yours, that masturbation is ALWAYS wrong in a relationship is by far the minority. 

You are the one with a stunted view of sex.





> You're only half way through? I love how that doensn't stop you promoting it. Next time instead of wanking yourself on the toilet when you're bored finish it, it'll give you something to do.
> 
> The book was written by an evangelical Christian and for all their faults their beliefs are pretty straight forward and concrete, so porn and wanking yourself well it probably didn't even occur to the author. Do I need to quote from the bible or something to back it up?


1. I could read the whole book in one night, but that's not the point, you do it over 40 days. So yes, it will take me about 20 more days to finish.
2. All I said on the thread about the book was that it has really helped out me and my wife so far and that it talks about what you can do yourself to help your relationship.
3. You might need to read the Bible and come up with a verse that shows me masturbation is a sin. Porn is definitely a sin according to the Bible, looking at another woman with lust=sin and I find it hard to believe that someone could look at porn without lust. Now, masturbating to the thoughts of your wife, please explain THAT one to me and show me where in the Bible it says that is wrong. I'll give you a hint, I've read the whole Bible a few times through, and never came across such a verse.











One thing Sarah and I agree on, sex with the partner OBVIOUSLY is always better and should always be preferred, there is never a time I would allow masturbation to interfere with any time with my wife. It has never happened and will never happen. I love sex with her too much. I can honestly say in 9+ years of marriage I have never turned her down for sex, not once.


----------



## onlylonelyone (Jan 26, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Semen Retention is when a man deliberately has sex, but holds off cumming. There are different ways of doing it, but the way I do it is to get to the edge of almost cumming, and then try to stay on that edge for the rest of the session, by going faster and slower as needed.
> 
> The woman gets the benefit of being able to have her man "do her" as many times a day as she wants as there is no refractory period.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is really cool. That would solve alot of problems on this board with the men and the women, huh??? lol. Thanks for educating me on that.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

onlylonelyone said:


> Wow, that is really cool. That would solve alot of problems on this board with the men and the women, huh??? lol. Thanks for educating me on that.


Well it wouldn't! Whenever women hear me speak about it, they love it. The men run a mile  Only one man on this board has taken me up on it. I have even tried to dangle the carrot of the "super powers" it bestows such as being able to understand women better, but the guys just laugh. Yet time and again, I demonstrate this ability, and they think it's all smoke and mirrors.

The man who got me into it said he had the same reaction, and he was impressed that I was even interested in being mentored.


----------



## onlylonelyone (Jan 26, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Well it wouldn't! Whenever women hear me speak about it, they love it. The men run a mile  Only one man on this board has taken me up on it. I have even tried to dangle the carrot of the "super powers" it bestows such as being able to understand women better, but the guys just laugh. Yet time and again, I demonstrate this ability, and they think it's all smoke and mirrors.
> 
> The man who got me into it said he had the same reaction, and he was impressed that I was even interested in being mentored.



I have to admit I was laughing at the thought of my husband even wanting to try that, lol. Although, I readily admit I would love for him to try it. I believe it can be done. I have a nice memory of being with a man that lasted all weekend. It was the best sex I ever had and it seemed to be all about pleasing me. My husband knows this story and to this day doesn't believe me, lol.....


----------



## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

Sarah, you keep mentioning the "proper" husband. Can you define that for me so I am on the same page? 

Thanks! =)


----------



## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

bhappy3 said:


> Sarah, you keep mentioning the "proper" husband. Can you define that for me so I am on the same page?
> 
> Thanks! =)


I do use the word proper a lot don't I? lol at least in this post.

I think I referred to 'proper men' rather than proper husband. Anywho I have a certain definition of a man, and it covers lots of different aspects, The sexual aspect I think would be that well he take a bit of pride in his sexual prowess, he cares that he's able to satisfy his partner sexually not out of some new age effete empathy but because he defines himself sexually as a man by being able to.

I remember a mate of mine years ago told a few of us that the previous night she'd shagged her new bf and afterwards she wanted to go again, and he just shrugged her off and started making excuses. And all of us agreed that she should chuck him because unless a man is bleeding from his eyeballs he shouldn't be turning down sex from a woman sharing a bed with him. And that by the sounds of him he was just going to turn out to be a drama queen.

I mean its easier for women, so what if you don't orgasm every time you have sex? As long as you orgasm as often as you want what's the problem. It's a hell of a lot easier for women than men so WTF?. Even if you're not up for penetrative sex there's a half dozen other things you can do. 

Half the relationship problems I've every heard are either caused by or exarcerbated by people messsing their partner around with sex. I wouldn't share a bed with a guy unless I was open to having sex, and I'd expect the same from the bloke. 

Anywho those are just my opinions.


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sarah.rslp said:


> I do use the word proper a lot don't I? lol at least in this post.
> 
> I think I referred to 'proper men' rather than proper husband. Anywho I have a certain definition of a man, and it covers lots of different aspects, The sexual aspect I think would be that well he take a bit of pride in his sexual prowess, he cares that he's able to satisfy his partner sexually not out of some new age effete empathy but because he defines himself sexually as a man by being able to.
> 
> ...



So, lets play devil's advocate here.

If a husband was willing to have sex every single time the wife wanted to, no matter what and he still wanted more...

Lets say its one of these 5 cases:
1. Aunt flow week
2. Shagged so much lately she's sore "down there"
3. Headache
4. Sick
5. Tired

If there is some reason she can't go at it, and the man is willing/wanting, is it STILL wrong for him to masturbate to the thought of his wife?

Just curious where your stance on that is.

To be honest, that's my case, in 9+ years of marriage I have never turned down my wife, no matter when she wanted it. There have been times she has turned me down, or is sick, headache, etc.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

onlylonelyone said:


> I have to admit I was laughing at the thought of my husband even wanting to try that, lol. Although, I readily admit I would love for him to try it. I believe it can be done. I have a nice memory of being with a man that lasted all weekend. It was the best sex I ever had and it seemed to be all about pleasing me. My husband knows this story and to this day doesn't believe me, lol.....


Well tell him that not only can I last all weekend, but I recently went for 5 weeks with sex most days, before I finally came on my wife's birthday - I did not mean to but I got carried away showing her a good time.

If he is interested, I can show him the ropes  (so to speak).


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

revitalizedhusband said:


> So, lets play devil's advocate here.
> 
> If a husband was willing to have sex every single time the wife wanted to, no matter what and he still wanted more...


Men in a relationship should not ejaculate solo; the reasons are twofold:


The release of ejaculation will make most men desire their wife slightly less immediately afterwards.
Even if they are not getting as much sex as they would like - it is even more crucial they don't ejaculate solo. The reason is that it will relieve the pressure to fix it, or be a man and walk away. When a man drains off his life-force like that to the point where it makes him a robot, it's like taking anti-depressants instead of facing the difficult feelings and finding a solution. Guess which option most of the world chooses?

Let's put it this way. Due to practising Semen retention, I only cum about once a month, so I get very frustrated if I don't get sex every single day. That causes me to make sure I have my finger on the pulse of our marriage, because it does not take much to put a woman in the mood to skip a night of sex. That does not mean I am p***y whipped. Part of what turns her on is my being relentlessly difficult


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

sarah.rslp said:


> I do use the word proper a lot don't I? lol at least in this post.
> 
> I think I referred to 'proper men' rather than proper husband. Anywho I have a certain definition of a man, and it covers lots of different aspects, The sexual aspect I think would be that well he take a bit of pride in his sexual prowess, he cares that he's able to satisfy his partner sexually not out of some new age effete empathy but because he defines himself sexually as a man by being able to.
> 
> ...


I'm in total agreement with this. But a lot of men will not understand. It's their loss. It's also their poor wife's loss as well.


----------



## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

To be honest I'm not sure I'd really buy into this whole semen retention concept that mark seems to practice. For me the whole thing is a lot simpler.

I think another factor is that men sometimes get lazy, they prefer wanking themselves off cause its easier. Also just because a guy wanks multiple times during the day it doesn't mean he can manage sex multiple times. Also I think a lot of problems guys have during sex are down to masturbation, they're so used to making lover to their hand they can't adapt to actually being with a live person.


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

MT: We'll have to disagree I guess. I have never desired my wife less after solo ejaculating, matter of fact there have been a few times in our marriage that after I MB'd she "changed her mind" (or the headache went away) and we went at it anyway, right afterwards.

Maybe I'm still young (30) and my sex drive is still in overdrive, I don't know, but MB'ing has never got me into the "sexual robot" stage and it has never even came CLOSE to "replacing" sex with my wife.

I treat her well, from helping around the house, taking care of the kids when I get home from work (she's a stay at home mom), taking days off work when she is sick to take care of the kids, surprising her with trips/vacations for just the 2 of us once or twice a year, I'm not controlling, I don't yell, etc...but while she has a good sex drive being a 30 year old woman (wants it 3-4 times a week) I still have a bigger sex drive than her.


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sarah.rslp said:


> To be honest I'm not sure I'd really buy into this whole semen retention concept that mark seems to practice. For me the whole thing is a lot simpler.
> 
> I think another factor is that men sometimes get lazy, they prefer wanking themselves off cause its easier. Also just because a guy wanks multiple times during the day it doesn't mean he can manage sex multiple times. Also I think a lot of problems guys have during sex are down to masturbation, they're so used to making lover to their hand they can't adapt to actually being with a live person.


You're not giving some of us enough credit here.

If you think a man can't separate MB and real sex, you know making sure you please your partner before you are "done", then you don't know us all that well.

Yes, MB is just about the "finish" but sex with my wife is about the journey to HER "finishing", once she's having one I can "finish" before her's is even over (since they last longer).

There is definitely a difference between MB in just a minute or 2 and having sex for 30-45 minutes, and MB doesn't mean you start to suck at regular sex as you are insinuating.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

revitalizedhusband said:


> MT: We'll have to disagree I guess. I have never desired my wife less after solo ejaculating, matter of fact there have been a few times in our marriage that after I MB'd she "changed her mind" (or the headache went away) and we went at it anyway, right afterwards.
> 
> Maybe I'm still young (30) and my sex drive is still in overdrive, I don't know, but MB'ing has never got me into the "sexual robot" stage and it has never even came CLOSE to "replacing" sex with my wife.


Yes, even at "only" 30 you sound unusual. Do you have no refractory period?


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Yes, even at "only" 30 you sound unusual. Do you have no refractory period?


Depends on the night, but if she's up for a dual session, I can go again in minutes, especially if the first one was a good long session that had a lot of foreplay.

There are many times when something happened and I finished before she did but I know she is close, so I just keep going, and within seconds am hard again and if it ends up still taking awhile for her I can end up having 2 just like a woman. She loves when that happens and has told me honestly that she has held back an orgasm for awhile to get me to have 2. 

FYI, for those that don't know, just like for women, in multiples for men, the 2nd one is ALWAYS better . Of course that doesn't happen that often for me.

The only thing I know of for myself that kills the refractory period is shower sex. Something about the water I'm typically done for a little while.


----------



## onlylonelyone (Jan 26, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Well tell him that not only can I last all weekend, but I recently went for 5 weeks with sex most days, before I finally came on my wife's birthday - I did not mean to but I got carried away showing her a good time.
> 
> If he is interested, I can show him the ropes  (so to speak).


I will definately talk to him about that


----------



## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

Masterbation is a form of self pleasure. It is about sex...it is a sexual act. That said. most people do it...male and female. Is it right? I don't know....but if you have a willing partner in your spouse...masterbation really shouldn't be an issue. It is generic and sort of like eating alone in a nice resturant or talking to yourself. There is a reward but it is nothing like true intimacy. It also can be that some who masterbate are doctoring feelings...just like an addict does....depends on the circumstances, but why else do something alone that someone else can help you with. And as far as the whole lazy aspect goes....anyone ever heard of a "Quickie"? Just because I'm not in the mood ...doesn't mean I can't meet his needs....or him mine. Treat sex like it is sacred and it will be much more satisfying....I mean if it is something you only do with each other....even if it is masterbating together...then it might just become something more to both of you. Like a dirty little secret. I do not recommend porn.....no one ever knows when it might become an addiction....good luck.


----------

