# Thoughts on the Knight is Shining Armor (unhealthy) dynamic



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

This is a follow up from my post here  as I didn't want to thread jack but I felt like expanding on my point on that thread and opening it up to discussion. 




sokillme said:


> The truth is women like this pray on men who think of them like children, to stupid or naive to know any better. These are the men they marry and who they know will stay with them after they treat them like garbage. They know they just have to shed some tears and pretend that they were fooled and too stupid to know any better and there knight and shining armor will forgive them. It's a continuing dynamic that is usually present at the start of the relationship. Extramarital affairs are just the apex of that dynamic.
> 
> The truth is they know exactly what they are doing and enjoy every minute of it, they also know they can play innocent and gullible to get away with it. No one is "fooled" into infidelity unless they are mentally retarded. It feels good while they are doing it, damn the consequences or who they hurt. The only ones who are naive are the men who stay married to them, thinking the whole time that they were too innocent to know what they were doing.


So I wanted to expand on the the whole Knight in shining armor dynamic but to do so this time examining the one who is the knight, to explain why I think infidelity is actually a trap for a person who thinks this way. After reading a lot of these stories it's quite obvious that the the dynamic is set up in such a way that the spouse who is cheated on (if they are the KISA type) will naturally gravitate to the idea that the cheater is broken and it is in their nature and even their mission to fix them. This causes them to get stuck in a very unhealthy symbiotic relationship. Again in my last point I spoke about how some people will prey upon people who think this way. But it makes sense that thinking this way makes you easy prey. 

Over and over you read about people (men especially) who feel their wives were tricked into cheating, and they just MUST help them overcome what they have done. In their minds their wives knew no better and therefor just couldn't help but be suckered into cheating. But my take is this is not a healthy marriage to being with even if there was no cheating. It's the apex of codependent thinking. 

I am not my wife's savior or parent, I am her equal partner. Thinking this way creates a healthy dynamic as it empowers me to call her out when she acts "less then gracious" to me, which doesn't happen often, but does happen. It also forces me to be accountable as there is no covert deal here, we are partners so I have to step up when necessary. But also I don't expect her to be more to me then a partner, as none of my actions are this kind super sacrificial covert action that I can one day call back on when I feel my needs are not being met. I am not entitled to her moving heaven and earth to make up for all the times I did the same, only that she show me the natural respect that is necessary in a healthy relationship. Instead we are on equal footing like any healthy relationship. I often times see this "sacrificial" kind of love as a way to hedge bets and even manipulate the marriage dynamic. I did this for you, why can't you do this for me type of thing. Again not healthy. 

Finally if she were to cheat on me or just abuse me in general I would feel no responsibility to fix or rescue her from the consequences of those actions. This is because I have never seen myself in the position of preventing her from the responsibility her actions. That is not what a partner does, I would offer that this isn't even what a parent does in the sense that I believe a good parent should try to minimize the consequences of a child's poor actions to allow them to be useful as a learning experience, but if possible prevent them from being too harsh as to cause lasting damage to a child who may not be prepared to take the full brunt of them. Obviously this protection decreases as the child gets older but so should the mistakes. I don't think this is what a "good" spouse does though. 

By the way this is very different then say if she were to get sick. In such cases then I absolutely feel it is my responsibility to take care of her, but in most cases this is not something that was caused by reckless behavior. Though one could argue not taking care of ones health by say smoking or over eating could fall in this category. Maybe a topic for another thread. 

Again, over all I think the KISA dynamic is a very unhealthy one, but I am not surprised that this is a common one where folks get cheated on and taken advantage of. I think it at the end of the day it stems from a very deep insecurity where the thinking is the only way someone will love me is if I take care of them in a sacrificial way. Often times you read about wives whose husbands behave like another child in the relationship. The wife becomes a kind of defacto mother to this man. I think this type of relationship is also a KISA dynamic. It's the same kind of thinking that is motivated by deep insecurity. The thinking being this is the only kind of man who will love me. I am unworthy of love unless I do almost everything for my spouse. More subtle is the idea that you just can't ask for what you want from your spouse so you must first go over and above what would be the normal amount of effort as to kind of game them into doing what you need. 

It's not good, and I would encourage anyone who is in a relationship with such a dynamic to really think about what are your real motives for accepting it. The question being has this been a common scenario in your romantic life?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Well this thinking assumes women are predatory and take advantage of poor kisa as soon as they can.
Some women are, some aren't. There are counterpoint women to the predatory types who are not aggressive.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Interesting question... but I think your description mixes issues. 

Unfortunately, some it involves predatory women, KISA men, weak men and just plain old beta men. 

These three types of men can overlap and you could even have stronger men can fall into some of these categories.

And frankly some stupid men and/or inexperienced men, can also fall into these areas. 

It is really hard to zero in on which type of man is in which situation and why. 

I have been a KISA in my life. It was stupid. I was stupid. Stayed too long. But I was never weak just stupid.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> Interesting question... but I think your description mixes issues.
> 
> Unfortunately, some it involves predatory women, KISA men, weak men and just plain old beta men.
> 
> ...


Trusting and stupid are not the same things. I think you were likely trusting and therefore didn't recognize the signs. We also cannot live in paranoia and be healthy either. Some things that we can look back on as obviously related to betrayal don't always mean that either. I think it's more complicated than that.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Trusting and stupid are not the same things. I think you were likely trusting and therefore didn't recognize the signs. We also cannot live in paranoia and be healthy either. Some things that we can look back on as obviously related to betrayal don't always mean that either. I think it's more complicated than that.


You know I cannot disagree with your logic or sentiment here. But for me, I assure you that I was stupid. 

Now it may be easy for me to say that with years more experience under my belt, so maybe you are right. 

But someone as intelligent as I am, even younger, should have be able to see what was actually happening, and believe me, it was way worse than just cheating. 

What is weird, is that I can spot BS a mile away now, just for the first part of my life, I could not...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Most people are not taught how to have a healthy relationship. When we are young, most people seem to lack understanding of what is and is not normal or healthy. I look back on my youth and I'm shocked. I feel like I was an idiot too. But I think it is that I lacked the skills. Still I think I was an idiot. Maybe you're right. lol



BluesPower said:


> You know I cannot disagree with your logic or sentiment here. But for me, I assure you that I was stupid.
> 
> Now it may be easy for me to say that with years more experience under my belt, so maybe you are right.
> 
> ...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I married my wife so that i could take care of her at the time. It was kinda on a whim... i didn't put much thought into it. I married her after knowing her for just a few weeks. 

I always figured i would have to learn how to make her happy, and i would give her good reasons to keep me happy. 

She doesn't have to do much to keep me happy. All she has to do is be happy with her life and respect my influence in her life. That's all i really wanted. Be happy, and acknowledge me. And i knew i had a lot of work ahead of me to make that happen. I didn't care if she hated me, so long as i got those two things from her. 

A few years into our marriage, she fell in love with me. And then i fell in love with her. And we have been madly and fiercely in love ever since. In fact, she is the only person i can say that i have been totally head over heals for. 

Ill never knock a KISA's intentions. Unfortunately, however, most of the ones i have seen have no idea how to stand on their own feet. I could easily be placed in the KISA category. I just did things very differently than most would. 

I wouldn't change anything.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jorgegene said:


> Well this thinking assumes women are predatory and take advantage of poor kisa as soon as they can.
> Some women are, some aren't. There are counterpoint women to the predatory types who are not aggressive.


I disagree, as I say even if they are not it's not a healthy dynamic as it is built on a kind of soft coercion. It's not an honest relationship. Even the sacrificial stuff is usually done out of a sense that it is necessary to get the person you are with to stay with you. I find the driving reason for it is fear or more so insecurity. 

My post also doesn't assume women are NOT predatory. Both women and men can be predatory, and the KISA is very easy prey.

I also provide one example at least in my mind where I think women act as KISA. To me this is exemplified by a kind of motherly or total responsibility dynamic with a man who has chronic arrested development. The kind of man who can't keep a job and behaves like a adolescent teenager. Or who really takes no ownership in his marriage of family at all and basically is there to be serviced. I think many women in those situations also fall into the same kind of (I have to do this to get him to stay) kind of mentality.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Without talking in the third person, with no one in charge of our Avatar, I am a KISA.
I love with all my heart.

I am not a Kiss-Ass. 

The Typist I-

........................................................................

This is why we do not like The Typist I.
He is the quintessential KISA.
He has more empathy than forty-two Mother Teresas.

And he is a Kiss-Ass.
He sucks up to the feminine sex.

Uh, sorry, that sort of thing is forbidden to write on TAM.

I am ruled by logic, passionate logic is OK.

The Martians are ruled by love and hate, nothing in between.


SunCMars-


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

IME some men look for women that they can save. It's often not so much that she's predatory, though some may be, but that some men like the ego boost of being a savior.

I know a few exactly like this. They go for women that are needy and are poor partner material so they don't feel inferior. 

It definitely is an unhealthy dynamic.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> IME some men look for women that they can save. It's often not so much that she's predatory, though some may be, but that some men like the ego boost of being a savior.
> 
> I know a few exactly like this. They go for women that are needy and are poor partner material so they don't feel inferior.
> 
> It definitely is an unhealthy dynamic.


Eh, sometimes it can be a healthy dynamic. One that actually strengthens both parties involved. 

But that seems to be incredibly rare....


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Interesting post. I think that in general there are certain psychological issues that people have and they seek out certain people and they form a dysfunctional, enabling, and sometimes toxic relationship. 
What comes to my mind is.... low self esteem, yearning to be loved and never feeling loved and narcissists and KISA.... these are issues that put people at risk of forming unhealthy relationships. 
And I agree that some people can seek these “weak” people out because they know they can easily manipulate them and get away with things.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

So whats the female equivalent of a KISA, a Molly Pitcher, Florence Nightingale, Mother Theresa?

Women seem to believe their love can transform a man in the same way men think their service and loyalty can transform a woman.

I've seen one woman who fell in love with a two men in prison, even to the extent that she thought they were innocent. 

Tamat


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hey don't want to hijack the thread, but isn't there a Madonna/wh0r* complex out there that muddies the same water, too?


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Well, this may get me some heat from the Feminist crowd but here goes....

Women tend to be externally validated, and they look towards us as men to lead the way. [Read the posts on any dating/relationship forum and see if you cannot tell the gender of the person asking for advice, just from the apparent thought processes of the person who wrote the post and not from e.g., any gender-identifying pronouns.] If we as men lose touch with them as their partner and another man gives them the attention, then they are prone to stepping out on us. 

Just as we as men are suckers for feminine beauty and receptiveness. Even most of of us who are happily partnered will have to use some strong willpower to shut down another woman coming on aggressively on us and we are best just avoiding those situations.

[What I find interesting though, is how much time and energy women will invest in therapy investigating their cravings for external validation ect and why they are "that way", whereas most of us men don't do much introspection about our attraction towards the perfect feminine figure and how that tempts us whether our partner actually has it or not.]


So for the reasons above I don't think all cheaters are "broken" per se. And deep down I suspect deep down most of us don't believe this either--it is why infidelity hurts so much--we take it personally on level, as if it is something WE are lacking. I do think in the end it is a matter of boundaries failing on the part of the cheater--she GAVE herself permission to cheat [many people do stay faithful too.] But I can see how strong the temptation can be to cheat, and how the stimuli is different for women than it is for us men. I do think it is on us as men to set the boundaries and not lose touch with our partners. Does this make me a KISA. Or an Alpha Caveman. I'm not sure.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

You see the KISA types here and there. Its mainly people that cling to their hatred of AP and the false narrative that OM manipulated their wife into sex. Getting them to dislodge that manure from their line of thinking is the first step to recovery. Divorce is usually the second step.


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> You know I cannot disagree with your logic or sentiment here. But for me, I assure you that I was stupid.
> 
> Now it may be easy for me to say that with years more experience under my belt, so maybe you are right.
> 
> ...


Well @BluesPower, this is my take--it may get me some heat from the Feminist crowd but here goes....

Women tend to be externally validated, and they look towards us as men to lead the way. [Read the posts on any dating/relationship forum and see if you cannot tell the gender of the person asking for advice, just from the apparent thought processes of the person who wrote the post and not from e.g., any gender-identifying pronouns.] If we as men lose touch with them as their partner and another man gives them the attention, then they are prone to stepping out on us. 

Just as we as men are suckers for feminine beauty and receptiveness. Even most of of us who are happily partnered will have to use some strong willpower to shut down another woman coming on aggressively on us and we are best just avoiding those situations.

[What I find interesting though, is how much time and energy women will invest in therapy investigating their cravings for external validation ect and why they are "that way", whereas most of us men don't do much introspection about our attraction towards the perfect feminine figure and how that tempts us whether our partner actually has it or not.]


So for the reasons above I don't think all cheaters are "broken" per se. And deep down I suspect deep down most of us don't believe this either--it is why infidelity hurts so much--we take it personally on level, as if it is something WE are lacking. I do think in the end it is a matter of boundaries failing on the part of the cheater--she GAVE herself permission to cheat [many people do stay faithful too.] But I can see how strong the temptation can be to cheat, and how the stimuli is different for women than it is for us men. I do think it is on us as men to set the boundaries and not lose touch with our partners. Does this make me a KISA. Or an Alpha Caveman. I'm not sure.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Imajerk17 said:


> Well, this may get me some heat from the Feminist crowd but here goes....
> 
> Women tend to be externally validated, and they look towards us as men to lead the way. [Read the posts on any dating/relationship forum and see if you cannot tell the gender of the person asking for advice, just from the apparent thought processes of the person who wrote the post and not from e.g., any gender-identifying pronouns.] If we as men lose touch with them as their partner and another man gives them the attention, then they are prone to stepping out on us.
> 
> ...


I think you make some great points, although, there is a great deal of generalization there. 

But as a man, in a serious relationship, it is much easier to not cheat when I get hit on, because of this relationship. I do get hit on a lot, and I just kind of ignore it. 

I am not saying that I am perfect, or beyond temptation, but for me, I don't consider the risk vs the reward in my case. Some of that may be that, I have done all of that and I am ready to be in a steady R. 

When I was single or casual, well, that is a different story... I don't know if it is the same for woman or not...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> So whats the female equivalent of a KISA, a Molly Pitcher, Florence Nightingale, Mother Theresa?
> 
> Women seem to believe their love can transform a man in the same way men think their service and loyalty can transform a woman.
> 
> ...


I wrote about it twice in both my posts, and yes I think it kind of takes the form of thinking they can transform their man. But also some women basically become some men's defacto mothers. I think this could be a good example of KISA.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

There are some KISA (both male and female) out there who are truly altruistic to their own detriment.

But what I have observed in the cases I have seen is that it comes down to:

Control

Yes, I'd love to save her/him

But I also want to control them. It's the most prettily wrapped form of control, but it is still control.

It's kind of the adult twist on helicopter parenting lol.

"I just want what's best for them."


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I think you make some great points, although, there is a great deal of generalization there.
> 
> But as a man, in a serious relationship, it is much easier to not cheat when I get hit on, because of this relationship. I do get hit on a lot, and I just kind of ignore it.
> 
> ...


Yes, what I wrote had some big generalizations. There are plenty of situations where the person cheating really is "broken". Maybe she is getting EVERYTHING from her partner--from fantastic sex to emotional support to her husband has his stuff together, and yet she still steps out. [I use the pronoun "she" because this thread was about women's affairs.]

What has happened to me a few times: I'd date someone new, and early on in the relationship, we couldn't keep our hands off each other. And then at some point, the passion would start to wane. And yet, when we did break up, even though the attraction had waned, there was a lot of real sadness. You do miss the other person's presence even if you lost some of the desire to fvvck their brains out [I feel guilty even writing this].

Now, in a marriage, this loss of desire on either side is a huge huge problem. If a woman suspects that her husband doesn't desire her sexually, or if she loses desire for her husband, she may not confront him about it. It could be a really difficult conversation to have and most of us just aren't good at difficult conversations. Maybe she doesn't want to rock the boat. She may tell herself that this sort of thing happens in a marriage. She might not even be aware that it is a problem, until another man puts himself into the picture.

Anyway, yeah, it is really important to not only have strong boundaries but to keep the sexual polarity, and the sex, going strong.


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

Well @sokillme this is what I noticed....

It is pretty difficult for men who have been to cheated on to get good advice. The standard advice--often given from professionals!--is _'C'mon just get over it already man. She said it was only sex and she said she was sorry! Why are you being so prideful and stubborn, holding on to the past like that. That is what is holding you both back!' _

Then our gender is told by society that her stepping out is somehow OUR fault. [Now I did observe earlier how it is on us to be the ones leading and setting the boundaries and I stand by that, but I was not trying to imply that she isn't the one to blame for her cheating. She knew what she was doing was wrong and yet was still the one who DECIDED to step out. Besides RE setting boundaries aren't we as men also told we should just trust her and 'not be so possessive'?]

So there are a lot of confused men out there. Many of them indeed who have been brainwashed into the KISA thinking that you mention here.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Imajerk17 said:


> Well @sokillme this is what I noticed....
> 
> It is pretty difficult for men who have been to cheated on to get good advice. The standard advice--often given from professionals!--is _'C'mon just get over it already man. She said it was only sex and she said she was sorry! Why are you being so prideful and stubborn, holding on to the past like that. That is what is holding you both back!' _
> 
> ...


You know, you make some really good points. But those men that allow this would be *****s, that is the bottom line. 

People, men and women, cannot allow this type of brain washing to continue. 

IRL, it does not work that way if you have a half a brain...


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> You know, you make some really good points. But those men that allow this would be *****s, that is the bottom line.
> 
> People, men and women, cannot allow this type *of brain washing* to continue.
> 
> IRL, it does not work that way if you have a half a brain...


Hey @BluesPower I should have responded to this sooner.

I think a lot of us men are confused and brain washed though.

On some level we as men tend to get that women tend to be externally-validated creatures and that it is on us to set the tone, to set the boundaries, to lead the romantic dance, to pass tests, which includes satisfying our (female) partners in the bedroom. And if we don't set the tone, our partner is more likely to cheat on us. We got to keep the flame alive!

I mean, I suppose she wouldn't cheat on us if she could 'self-validate', if she had solid boundaries and could tell us before she goes astray that something is missing. But how many people really have solid boundaries. And she may not even know that something is missing until another man tries giving it to her.

Now, I know I made some big generalizations that are NOT ALWAYS true, there are certainly plenty of wonderful women who never cheated despite their partner's shortcomings. And to be sure, our gender has our own issues that women would be wise to. **And last but not least you could be doing everything right and she STILL steps out!** But there is still quite a bit of truth to the above. The problem is, putting it as such these days tends to get us labelled as cavemen, chauvinists, ect. So the knowledge expressed in the above paragraphs is beaten out of us. We aren't supposed to be thinking this way!

And yet on some level we still feel this to an extent. When a woman cheats on us, we tend to feel as if WE were the ones who came up short, even though SHE was the one whose integrity was lacking. We can't put a finger on HOW we were at fault though. So when a counselor comes along with more feminized advice and tells us that the affair is our fault, that we should just let it go and court her to win her back, that advice sticks for all too many men. 

Last but not least, many of us men suffer from a scarcity mentality, sad to say especially after we have been cheated on. For all to many guys, their partner represents to them their only chance at female companionship (this probably feels especially true after our masculinity takes a hit from being cheated on) so we better hold on to her best as we can.

The above isn't my own idea, the book "Way Of The Superior Man" by David Deida lays out this stuff really well.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Imajerk17 said:


> Hey @BluesPower I should have responded to this sooner.
> 
> I think a lot of us men are confused and brain washed though.
> 
> ...


Well I have not read that book. But I will say some things about your post. 

First off, yes a lot of men are KISA's, I have been guilty of that, many times. I think the nurturing side of us will do that with women, children, small animals. So that is one part of this syndrome. 

But, men and woman both think that they are not good enough when someone cheats on them, and everyone wants to think that THEY did something wrong. That is common for both genders.

But the other things that you talk about are basically BS in my mind. If you are a decent looking, or average looking guy, not a micro penis, have basic bed room skills, not weird or too out there, not a fat couch potato, or some other extreme, then there are multiple women in the world for you. 

Now, is it going to be the one, who knows. But you can find a compatible women out there. So that is just foolish. A lot of men have no confidence about anything, how they ever got that way is beyond me, but that has to be over come and it is not that hard to do. 

To think that this one POS woman or man that cheated on you and treats you like crap, or maybe a low sex no sex wife or husband... but to think that is the only one in the world for you, is kind of crazy. 

I have broken up with some super girls for various reasons, maybe the sex was not really great and you did your best to teach them, or maybe she tested you one too many times, or whatever the reason is, but if it was not working for me, sorry, I am gone. 

Now at my age, I don't have time to R's that are not doing it for me. Take my GF for example, beautiful, good in bed (She learned quick, and has opened up to her sexuality, and basically kind of a natural), is completely head over heals in love with me, as I am with her, and bla bla bla...

What is the top attribute that she has, NOT ****ING CRAZY... 

So a lot of things that MEN think or they are fearful of, are just not reality. But if you have a deficiency then you need to fix it and feel good about it. 

But one of the most basic things that you have to do, as a man, if figure out what you are willing to accept in a relationship. 

Another example with GF... She had a "Friend" that she never slept with, that was the widow husband of an old friend of hers. So there was a connection there, and she hung out with him, and the "relationship" that they had, made her upset. Reason is that he was a drunk ass that is actively drinking himself to death. 

She had some messed up idea that she was going to help him be better or whatever. 

After about the first or second date when we knew that we would be together, I told her that, "You need to end contact with this guy, TODAY. It is not healthy for you or our R for you to speak to him at all for any reason." I was not going to tolerate her being around someone like this for any reason, man or woman, it is just not good. She understood and complied. 

This is kind of a weird example, but it would have been the same thing if it was an ex lover, nebulous "Friend" or whatever. If I have any type of bad feeling about a situation, it ends, or the relationship ends, it is that simple. 

Anyway those are my general thoughts about all of that...


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Well I have not read that book. But I will say some things about your post.
> 
> First off, yes a lot of men are KISA's, I have been guilty of that, many times. I think the nurturing side of us will do that with women, children, small animals. So that is one part of this syndrome.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with this. I do think a lot of men have a scarcity mentality when it comes to women and dating. Hell to be frank I had that myself growing up and through my 20s. And that the reality is not that at all though. Especially for men in their 40s or 50s who have decent social skills, have their lives more or less together, and take care of themselves physically. The one catch is though, that we have to put ourselves out there.

I have a date this weekend with someone that I cold-approached. Yes I had to approach her, but besides that it was easy. We had a good conversation--and then she returned my texts and we just set the date right up. Now it was so easy not because I was so witty or clever--but instead because she like every other single red-blooded hetero woman wants to meet a decent guy too. And even if is cute that can be quite challenging for her. Maybe she happens to work with mostly other women and the guys in her social circle are married so the only way it will happen will be if she meets a guy from outside of that. Thing is though, she won't cold-approach, and many other guys won't either so she is stuck.




> But one of the most basic things that you have to do, as a man, if figure out what you are willing to accept in a relationship.
> 
> Another example with GF... She had a "Friend" that she never slept with, that was the widow husband of an old friend of hers. So there was a connection there, and she hung out with him, and the "relationship" that they had, made her upset. Reason is that he was a drunk ass that is actively drinking himself to death.
> 
> ...


But yes I agree with you that we have to be the ones to set the boundaries.

On a somewhat related/different note, I think the way men and women get into affairs is different. Now, I am making generalizations and I KNOW there are exceptions, but for a man to get into an affair he has to actually go looking for one and do the work to initiate it. A MM has to either be brazen enough to keep persisting in the face of the expected rejections and wear her down, OR sly enough to find another way to get close to the woman. It is much much easier for a woman to just fall into an affair though. A MW, especially a physically attractive MW, just needs to have a lapse in her boundaries for that one scoundrel she comes across who is able to get under her skin. 

We see this all the time--here and on the other forum we both used to post on. It ties into men being the initiators and women having to be receptive. In many instances the women in affairs are actually decent-hearted people who never sought out to cheat and hurt their Hs. They just got drawn in by their need to help, craving the validation, not able to say no, boredom in their Ms or lives, ect., and just got swept away. So if you are her H you need to watch out. 

[Real talk here. I know the above reads awfully cynical but this is truly how I see it.]


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Imajerk17 said:


> On a somewhat related/different note, I think the way men and women get into affairs is different. Now, I am making generalizations and I KNOW there are exceptions, but for a man to get into an affair he has to actually go looking for one and do the work to initiate it. A MM has to either be brazen enough to keep persisting in the face of the expected rejections and wear her down, OR sly enough to find another way to get close to the woman. It is much much easier for a woman to just fall into an affair though. A MW, especially a physically attractive MW, just needs to have a lapse in her boundaries for that one scoundrel she comes across who is able to get under her skin.
> 
> We see this all the time--here and on the other forum we both used to post on. It ties into men being the initiators and women having to be receptive. In many instances the women in affairs are actually decent-hearted people who never sought out to cheat and hurt their Hs. They just got drawn in by their need to help, craving the validation, not able to say no, boredom in their Ms or lives, ect., and just got swept away. So if you are her H you need to watch out.
> 
> [Real talk here. I know the above reads awfully cynical but this is truly how I see it.]


I agree with what you posted, except part of this part. Women, or men for that matter, are not victims of predators. A lot of people, men especially, want to think that, and it is all most never true. 

People cheating, women especially, cheat because they wanted to, that is the reality. Now, she may not love her husband, she may be bored, she may feel entitled, she may have a husband that is low sex/no sex/ or horrible in bed, but they just want to. 

Men are the same, except that they basically just want to get laid. 

Now, thinking this way makes a lot of people feel better, but it is a lie. 

Does not make any of it right, for either sex, but it is reality. 

If I was that person anymore, I cannot really count the number of married woman that I could sleep with. 

Not that I would anymore, but they are out there and for whatever reason, they want to get laid, or have someone to talk too or whatever. 

I believe this is a sad but true fact...


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Are we talking about a KISA like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/expr...her-personal-handyman/?utm_term=.d4bea61138c1

The comments are interesting as well.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

When most ladies want to ride horses, most jump on the nicest one.

And they poke it, cluck at it, cajole it, sometimes kick the crap out of it to get it to go 'their' way.

Generally, KISA men are the nicer horses.


Just Sayin'



[THRD]


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