# Hurt, Sad, Confused- My Marriage Is Crashing Help



## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Hard to put into words everything I want to say and feel, or even where to begin, but I'll give it a run. I apologize in advance for its longevity, I just feel better painting the picture best I can, plus it helps me to write it all out.  

So my wife and I have been married 2 years this coming June, after a short dating period of 6 months. I'm now 41 and she's 31, just to paint the picture. We met, both have been in multiple marriages, both have 3 kids, and we almost immediately moved in together. Well, she was just out of her last marriage (he left, and is the dad to her 2 youngest, who are now 5 & 6) only a few months when we met. I had been single around 4 years, and my kids are now 18, 14 and 8. Within a few weeks of intense dating she wanted me to move in, and at the time I wasn't obligated to a lease so I did. Things were amazing, passionate, the sweetness and romantic gestures were everywhere as is typical in a new relationship. She'd have notes laying around the house when I'd get home, write me sweet cards, make me feel like a priority, as I did her. I'd write her notes daily, bring her flowers every week to 2 weeks just because, which I still do 2+ years later. She's been a stay at home mom since her 6 yo was born due to some medical issues and problematic pregnancy she had, and she's since then had 9 surgeries for hernias, a half hysterectomy, had a small benign tumor on her kidney they cut off. I was only with her a few months and she had the kidney surgery, but I risked my job to stay by her side the entire time at the hospital. Our background, we'll I come from a family of 6 kids, she's an only child. Well, only a few months in we had our first big fight, after leaving her parents house where we'd been riding 4 wheelers, having drinks and grilling. Let me say, there's never been any physical crap, just arguing, just wanted to clear the air there in case you were wondering. She's extremely sensitive, so even slightly raising my voice in the midst of a disagreement and she tells me not to raise my voice to her. Well, sorry but when I'm passionate about something, I fight for it. Saying that, her extreme sensitivity comes from her upbringing. Her parents fought a lot when she was a kid, physical and verbal. Her dad was an alcoholic and did drugs, hit her mom, roughed her up on occasion. She ultimately went to live with her grandma, where she was spoiled by her and all the aunts and uncles as there's never been many grandkids. They still spoil her to this day. Am I jealous, well yeah, I wasn't spoiled in the slightest. My family is more distant, with my dad never really being in the picture much. Her parents have changed, they're now amazing grandparents to her kids and mine, thankfully. My family gets along great, we just don't see each other often. Now her kids are 5, 6, and 11. The 5 and 6 yo are with us all the time, with their dad picking them up for an hour or two on Tuesday and Thursday, then every other Saturday for 4 hours. The 11 yo goes to his dad's every Tuesday, Thursday and every other weekend. My 8 yo son comes every wednesday and every other weekend, then a lot in the summer. My two oldest, well the 18 yo is in college now and the 14 yo comes here and there, but prefers her friends these days which I get, I was a teenager once, right?  Needless to say, we've never had much time to ourselves, with her parents watching the kids sometimes every other friday till Saturday afternoon. That part has been tough, and yes I've said it all along, we need more "us" time, but it is what it is. The two youngest have been a big challenge, but most kids are, that's normal. But, they'll stay up till 10, 11, 12 playing their DS, watching TV, most often when they've had a nap during the day. Or they come get in bed with us, which on occasion is okay, but not all the time. We've talked about this often, and how we need to get them in a better routine, tho she always just says, well they had a nap so you know what that means, or they'll only be young once. I get it, but it impacts us, and what should be us time on occasion. The two youngest drive her bonkers and stress her out to the max, to where she's yelling and all huffy puffy trying to cater to their every demand. And yes, they are very demanding and cry, throw fits, won't get anything for themselves, they ask her or I for everything, which has been a sticky point in our marriage. I try and help take the burden off of her often when I'm home from work by bathing them, cleaning house, cooking, getting them ready for bed...not all the time, but many times. Most mornings are a nightmare because our 5 yo screams and cries and wants to stay home from school to play his DS or the Xbox. That puts her in a bad mood right there. None of the kids really ever get punished, and if I step in and take something away to try and defuse the situation, she'll cave in shortly after and give in to them. We've talked about this many times. If I try to talk to her about it, her reply is always, "I know, I'm a terrible mom". No, you're not, you're a great mom but you're enabling the kids and they'll keep walking all over you. I've given up fighting that fight. Okay, so since she's been a stay at home mom, she's also been watching kids full time here for extra money. Recently that ended when the dad of the 18 month old she was watching lost his job, so the past month she's not had that on her plate. The youngest goes to school at 9 and she picks him up at 1, and the others go 9 to 4. I work in sales and typically am gone 9 to 5:30. We moved out of her and her exes old house last May into our own home and in a great area and school district. This is her dream area she says. Since we've been together, we've always written each other little notes, with her putting mine in my lunch that she makes for me each night, and I place mine in different areas of the house for her to find. Yes, we still do this, but she tends to forget more than I do, no biggie, I know she's busy in the am with the kiddos. On weekends I let her sleep in, often till 11 or 12 while I drink my coffee, do my fantasy football or just mindlessly surf the Web. Now off and on throughout our marriage we've had our share of disagreements over stupid stuff, who hasn't? I forgive and move on the next day or that night. Quite a few of those times tho, she hasn't and I get handed a 4 or 5 page letter essentially telling me how she feels, that she loves me so much and just wants to be loved by me, then talks about not being happy, but hopes we can grow old together. I'm rambling, sorry. So, many of those arguments she's resorted to telling me to leave, we're done, this isn't gonna work, I can't live like this, my parents fought and my exes and I never fought so I can't handle this. Now we make it through these, usually by her and i apologizing and texting me that she loves me so much and hopes I love her and all she wants in life is to make me happy, to be loved by me. Let me paint another picture. She's a beautiful girl and in great shape, we both work out often, more her these days than I, but I get a quick work out in 4 or 5 days a week before work. Since I've known her, she's hated the way she looks, her hair, her skin (she has some facial issues like acne, splotches) and she's always wanted a boob job because hers she says are flat and have stretch marks. I get it and I've told her fine, when we have the extra $. Well, being so insecure I never get to see her without clothes on, not in the shower and when we have play time, she keeps her bra on and it has to be dark. We've had a great sex life, with her always being concerned she wouldn't be enough for me in that department as she's not a very sexual person thanks to some bad things happening to her when she was a teenager. I don't push the issue, instead I tell her all the time how beautiful she is, and that I love all of her. Well, being insecure she fixated on her looks all the time it seems. From her clothes even when she's just running kids to school or going to the store. If it's not clothes, she's talking about her hair, researching ways to grow it longer, thicker, clothes she wants, or she's researching her medical issues as she still on a regular basis has issues with nausea, her hernia and her high blood pressure or her arthritis in her hands. She also has sleep issues, so she takes ambien 2 weeks a month, the other two weeks she'll take nyquil because she takes 2 ambien because they're low dose. So she is very restless often. Almost from the beginning as well, she'll ask me all the time, "are you sure you love me, and are still in love with me?". I get this question on a very regular basis either face to face while laying in bed or via text. I of course say yes, I'm very much in love and love you.

So now that I've rambled on and on, let me continue to bore you. Haha I swear, even if no one reads this it's helping me feel better just writing it all out.  

From the beginning, she's been big into Facebook and posting things, selfies which I've never really been a fan of this to her friends and guy friends who always comment on how beautiful she is, or how amazing her eyes are. Well, honestly that's the rub to me, I don't post selfies for other women to comment on, I don't need that attention nor would I want her to feel jealous. I've brought it up and she just says oh, they're just friends from school. Now she'll spend hours on fb, always did which has bothered me, especially when we'd be sitting together and I'd be bored out of my mind and inside feeling upset and ignored. I moved on from that and basically quit getting on fb because I didn't want to see or read it all. To me, it's always felt like she needs so much attention and I'm not giving her enough, but that in turn feels like a slap in the face as she should only be seeking my attention, even tho she'll deny that's what she's after with her posts or pics. I will say, recently that's gotten better and she's not on it as much. 

So I go to work, provide for all of us, and she helps out too with the child support that comes in, which is nice. But I also pay out support so it's almost a wash. Oh well. So often I come home and I end up cleaning up messes, the house is a disaster, rarely is dinner made so I make a bowl of soup, iron my dress clothes, get things ready for the next day. Inside, I'm like wth have you done all day, which I know the answer...watched her shows, played on fb, talked to her mom 10 times, played her tablet, picked up here and there. Now I know she deserves down time too. She's wanting to go back to work once the 5 yo starts full day school after this summer. Now I used to be a big gamer, but hadn't done that for many years. Well, all of our boys are into gaming so I started playing again even getting my own xbox one. Keep in mind, our entire relationship we've always cuddled up and watched movies every night, and been up each other's butts...the honeymoon phase as they say. If I'd get up to do something, she'd always ask where I was going, what I was doing, still does. Even in the middle of the night if I get up to take a leak, she'll wake up and ask where I'm going. lol I'm not a great sleeper, meaning I've always been good on 4 to 5 hours and I'm high energy, thus I typically stay awake longer than she does and watch tv in bed...never been that big of a deal. Well, enter my gaming addiction, and yes I'll admit it, I'm hooked on a certain game I just enjoy playing and completing the missions, it's a complete stress reliever. Started a few months back, and I am guilty of ignoring her to get some play time in. I try and play when she's busy doing things or mostly once she's asleep, but being the terrible sleeper that she is, even tho I wear a headset she wakes up and is fuming I'm still up and playing. I'll admit, I've gotten carried away with playing and spent a good part of the past months weekend playing, but not all the time...i don't play all day on weekends and do things around the house, but sporadically I've played too much on a weekend. I know I shouldn't and it's led to many arguments and her going to sleep on the couch. I'll come in and try to get her to come to bed, but nope, not happening. So I go to bed alone feeling guilty and sad, thinking, you get your time every day to watch your shows, play on fb, text your friends, talk on the phone, I don't get that time all day. Now I know I need to make time for her as she's feeling ignored and disrespected by my continuing to play while she's sleeping. I'm an idiot and I should know better. I even bought her a sleeping mask, but she says it's uncomfortable so she won't wear it. I'd move the dang xbox to another tv in the house, but the kids all have their xbox's on those. In fact, we have 3 other xbox's for the kids, yes, it's a gaming house and it drives her nutty as they're always fighting over who's playing. Well they used to until I bought another xbox and tv, now they all can play. She also feels like I'm not attracted to her anymore as I've not tried playing nearly as much as I used too, but hey, she doesn't make the effort either. I do want to, but it seems like there's always something going on, a kid in our bed or the biggest, we have to wait until the movie is over and it's freaking too late, she's falling asleep or I am. Never in the morning either, which she knows I'd love! Now let me add this in, we've both been smokers and she recently quit, like 2 weeks ago, so I know that in and of itself is stressful. We've always had drinks after work, like the Mike's lemonade things or some wine, but now she's not drinking those either and I went thru a month of drinking 2 to 3 glasses of wine 5 to 6 nights a week, which she complained about, so I've nipped that in the bud and drink a few glasses a couple nights a week now. So that brings me to where we are now. Last weekend we got into another big argument at our 5 yo's birthday party. Her mom had asked me when we were doing presents and I simply replied, ask her, it's her show, she's the boss. Which I said in a happy voice, meaning I didn't organize the party, she did. Didn't mean it in a bad way, but her mom told her what I said and all hell broke loose. We cooled off, talked that night and watched a movie in bed and cuddled. When the movie was over, I turned Netflix on and she was like, turn it off and go to sleep. Well, my alpha male side kicked in and I told her that I just wanted to watch a little more tv, and she didn't need to tell me what to do. Boom, bad idea on my part. Off to the kids bedroom she went to sleep. Now, a week prior to that, we had another argument and she got in my face repeatedly, grabbed the hat off my head and said she bought it for me...so I did get heated and I did yell, we both did. She told me to leave, I said no, I'm not leaving my own house. What's she do, threatens to call the cops on me. I said go for it, I hadn't done anything wrong. I went out to the garage as I typically do to smoke and calm down and who shows up, yep, the cops. Who the hell calls the police over an argument??? They essentially did nothing, they couldn't. The guy cop talked to me a bit about the situation, and even was baffled she'd call them. He did say she called back to try and cancel, but they had to come anyway. So here it is Saturday, and all week she's been sleeping in the kids room and we've barely said a word to each other. Wednesday I brought her lunch, she ignored me. I wrote her a note Thursday that said I loved her, she ignored that too. We finally talked yesterday because I told her we needed to, which pretty much changed nothing except that she feels like things will never change, so I guess we're roommates until she gets a job and her own place because she can't afford the house. Talk about awkward around here...i stay in the bedroom most of the time now. Oh and btw, last month she drained the savings account after an argument. For the record, I've not once thrown out there anything about giving up or walking away, I made a commitment, but I'm thinking that's all for nothing now. Maybe it's me, but I like to think she has a pretty damn good life. We pay our bills, buy what we want for the most part, I work hard, take care of the yard, the cars, help with kids, cleaning, flowers, notes, I don't go to bars, I don't gamble, do drugs. I don't know what to think anymore, but I can tell you, I don't deserve this, and if this is over, I'll never date again, I can't do it. 

So so sorry for writing a novel, but like I said, it helps to get all of this off my chest.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You need to sign up for SuperNanny.

And you need to stop picking up when you get home. Tell her that's her job and you expect her to do it. Or she can get a job and pay for a housecleaner.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

I think it would be helpful if you could just break up the 2 largest paragraphs.

Anyway, I did read your whole posts and I come away from it thinking that both of you spend a lot of time on activities that really don't add a lot of positives to your family dynamic. Instead of the hold household spending so much time on electronics, can you start doing activities that will get your out of the house moving around and involved in activities that will add to your life experiences in a positive way? Take the kids to play museums, to the park, outside playing in the snow, or at a lake or pond of you're in a milder climate?

Maybe if you lead by example during your time off you can get your wife interested in more positive activities that will give her more energy, clear her mind from all the electronics, and start to get the kids involved too. Might be too late for the older kids and so they will fight you all the way but the younger one would definitely benefit. 

As a SAHM I know how easy it is to get stuck in the rut and not be productive so I have to really push myself in this area and get moving with baby. If it's a bad weather day there's still lots I can do with her to keep us energized and for the most part we stay active all day (I get lazy sometimes but the little one never stops moving!). We craft, read, clean (yes at 16 months she picks up her toys, dusts (or her version of it), runs her toy vaacum). As a result of all the stimulating activity, she is more than ready for bed at bedtime, sleeps through the night, and takes a nice long nap during the day. This gives ample time for hubby and I to connect and spend time together planning, talking, watching a tv show together, cuddling, you know the rest  

So again, show some leadership in getting yourself and your family involved in more worthwhile activities than electronics and gaming. I think it's at least worth a try.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Oh boy, if I mentioned super nanny or it's her job to clean the house, she'd wipe me off the face of the planet! lol 

Sorry about the run on sentences, I typed that from my phone, but thank you for reading all of it and your suggestions. It's winter here, so not much outside activities going on. During the warmer weather we get out a lot, parks, picnics, riding 4 wheelers, six flags. Typically when we try to take the kids somewhere inside, it's a complete disaster that leaves us both mentally exhausted, yeah, they're out of control. Thus we don't get out much. She'll take them to a lot of parks when it's warm, plus we just bought a trampoline last summer, so the kids get outdoors often. I grill a lot, probably 4 to 5 nights a week, again when it's warm. She and I love that, plus it gives us time together sitting on the deck, talking, relaxing.


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## HuggyBear (Aug 4, 2012)

What's with the "no bra off" or not being naked unless it's dark... that just too weird. Besides the stretch marks are there tattoos or scars, or something?

That doesn't sound right, and I would try to see more of that. Perhaps some positive reassurance that she's fine the way she is would be helpful.

I mean really F'in weird.... never even heard of it before.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SirJustified said:


> Oh boy, if I mentioned super nanny or it's her job to clean the house, she'd wipe me off the face of the planet! lol


So I take it you're afraid of displeasing her? So you never do? You just hide in your game to avoid her?


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

It is quite odd, as she sees me in the flesh every day I take a shower, and I'm not perfect by no means. She does have some small scars on her stomach, but that doesn't stop her from wearing a swimsuit in the summer. If I've told her once, I've told her a million damn times she's beautiful and I love her exactly as she is, so idk. She's VERY insecure about her breasts, with the stretch marks and being flattened out after the kids, but I again tell her I love them and on occasion I'll get access to them, but it's not for long and it's ONLY in the dark again. Hell, she'll come out in a towel and me being frisky, I'll go to grab the back and lift it up and she freaks out moving like she stepped on a land mine! Her insecurities are why I believe she's always looking for attention, always and it's tough to handle. Not to mention she tells me all the time she's going thru menopause and has hot flashes regularly since she had her hysterectomy several years ago.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Quit smoking and gaming.

You made financial commitments way too fast. 

Schedule MC. Tell her the time and date.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She immediately went from her former husband to having you move in? If she hadn't worked since her youngest was born, how would she have supported herself without you -- did she receive alimony? I'm wondering how important you are to her as a financial resource.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Turnera- I pick my battles, but she'll snap so fast jimmy johns has nothing on her. I try and keep the peace and not be confrontational, but it happens when I've had enough. Then she guilt trips me to death, but when I try and defend myself, she just states that I'm of course trying to make her out to be the wrong one. I seriously can't win, and not that I need to but I've told her before, I can't say anything right in her eyes. She'll even say I frighten her, because I guess I can come off po'd and intimidating...i don't see that tho, I wouldn't hurt a fly, maybe a mosquito tho. I should add, she's on wellbutrin right now, as of the past 2 weeks. She told me last week she was going to ask the doc to up the dosage. I also left out years ago before her and I and the kids, she tried to commit suicide. She says she was drunk and didn't really want to. Smh


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

So I'm just to give up gaming completely and smoking to make things right? Not saying it's not worth it, but why should I give up things I find enjoyment in to please another? Shouldn't she love me and accept me for who I am?


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Financially, she has a good amount of support coming in from both dads, so I'm sure she could have found a way to make it work. We have a joint account, my paycheck goes in and so does her child support. I know right now and this whole week that's what she's been trying to figure out, how or where can she go with the kids. She told me yesterday she'd rather be poor and living in a 1 room apt then be unhappy. Geez, I didn't know I was that terrible.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The two of you jumped into this far too soon and didn't know each other. Now that the honeymoon period is over, the issues are becoming obvious. Counseling would be helpful.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Did I read your post right... that while your wife is sleeping, you are in the bedroom watching TV and/or playing electronic games?

Do you wear ear phones or is it noisy while she is trying to sleep?

There is also the light from the screens.

Why are you doing this in the same room she is in while she is trying to get some sleep?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SG, welcome to the TAM forum. I suggest that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and the kids are dealing with. I advise this because you've mentioned several red flags indicating she may have a serious disorder warranting professional treatment in individual therapy. One red flag, of course, is the suicide attempt before you met her. 

A second red flag are her frequent attempts to push you out of the house -- when you are less than two years into your marriage. As you say,_ "So, many of those arguments she's resorted to telling me to leave, we're done, this isn't gonna work."_ A third red flag is her extreme sensitivity to your comments and insecurity. This seems evident, for example, in your comment that _"she'll ask me all the time are you sure you love me, and are still in love with me? I get this question on a very regular basis."_

A fourth red flag is that -- less than two years into the marriage - she called the cops to have you forcibly removed from your own home even though there was no legal basis for the cops to be willing to do that. A fifth red flag is that she is taking Welbutrin. (But, granted, that medication may not be needed for a long-term depression problem but, rather, only for the short-term anxiety caused by giving up cigarettes.) 

In any event, you seem to be describing behavior that not only is immature but also unstable. Hence, an important issue is whether this unstable behavior arises from her recent surgeries/medications or, instead, from a long-term problem such as a personality disorder she may have had for many years. Her suicide attempt, which occurred roughly ten years ago before she had kids, suggests her instability may have been well established long before she had those recent surgeries.

I therefore suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you read my list of _*18 Warning Signs*_. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, SJ.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Zanne- You hit the nail on the head, we both have self esteem issues. I've battled my weight most of my life, and 4 years ago I whipped my butt into shape, the best shape I'd ever been in. I will say tho, over the past 2 years I've gained about 15 lbs back, but nothing I can't fix. I'm running now 3 to 4 days a week and cutting down on my sugar intake to help out. We eat pretty healthy, which helps and I very rarely eat out. 

Now, I know she's unhappy with her situation, the boredom of being home and wanting adult stimulation when I get home, I get it. She's depressed, I know this too. Yes, I am a good punching bag for her frustrations, but I can be pushed too far and I then shut off, back away and bottle things up. There's definitely resentment from my end for many things, such as her entitled attitude and independent ways. Saying that, independence is a good thing, but it takes two to make a marriage work. She always says she can't help it, she's had to do everything on her own since her first kid. Her exes did nothing, no helping with the kids, helping around the house, she was on her own. I AM NOT THOSE GUYS, and I hate being made to pay for their mistakes. She is a princess, but she's also got a very sweet and tender side, but that side depends on whether or not the kids have pissed her off or if I've given her lots of attention and praise. I like paying her compliments, telling her how sexy she is, but when I've had a long day at work and a stressful one, damnit I would like some tenderness, some pampering every once in a while. There are many days I feel just like a paycheck. 

I'm not a fan of confrontation, but I wish I could hand her what I've written, and if I did, she'd just go on the defensive and eventually it'd turn back around on me. What's this No More Mr Nice Guy?


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Yes EleGirl, we both watch tv in the bedroom and that's where I play my game. I do use headphones so there's no sound, but she can hear the clicking of the controller. I bought her a sleeping mask so the light from the tv didn't bother her, but that only lasted 1 night. I admit, I could and should move it into another area of the house, I'm wrong for doing what I've done. I don't have the sleeping issues she has, I just can't fall asleep before 1 or 2, 4 or 5 hours and I'm right as rain. Problem with that solution is, she wants me in bed with her and the kids use all the other tv's, or she watches the living room one.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SirJustified said:


> Turnera- I pick my battles, but she'll snap so fast jimmy johns has nothing on her. I try and keep the peace and not be confrontational, but it happens when I've had enough. Then she guilt trips me to death, but when I try and defend myself, she just states that I'm of course trying to make her out to be the wrong one. I seriously can't win,


Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? Sounds like a good first project for you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SirJustified said:


> Yes EleGirl, we both watch tv in the bedroom and that's where I play my game. I do use headphones so there's no sound, but she can hear the clicking of the controller. I bought her a sleeping mask so the light from the tv didn't bother her, but that only lasted 1 night. I admit, I could and should move it into another area of the house, I'm wrong for doing what I've done. I don't have the sleeping issues she has, I just can't fall asleep before 1 or 2, 4 or 5 hours and I'm right as rain. Problem with that solution is, she wants me in bed with her and the kids use all the other tv's, or she watches the living room one.


My way of looking at this is that you are both good people who jumped into a marriage way too fast. Second (or 3rd or 4th or etc) marriages with children from previous marriage have a divorce rate of about 70%. I think you can see why now. It’s hard to start a new marriage and blend families at the same time. It’s 10 times harder with your wife’s health issues. 

So, since I view both of you as good people in a tough situation, do not take what I’m going to say here as me jumping on you. You are the one who is here so you are the only one who I can talk to. You are asking for help so you are the person who will need to make the changes if this marriage is going to work. A marriage can be greatly improved by one spouse making changes. You can only change yourself. But if you change, she will have to change in reaction to your changes. And hopefully her reactive changes be in ways that bring you both a great marriage and a happy family.

You watching TV and/or playing games on a TV in your bedroom while your wife is trying to sleep is completely unacceptable. Your wife needs a lot more sleep than you do. Any noise and/or light in the room can cause her to never enter into REM sleep. Lack of deep sleep can create all kinds of health and mental health issues. Even with a sleep mask the light from a TV can interrupt deep sleep.

Our bodies create a hormone called Melatonin when the sun goes down. It’s the body’s natural way of telling us that it’s time to go to sleep. In today’s world, we have all kinds of artificial light that interrupts the production of Melatonin. What you are doing is preventing your wife from getting into a deep sleep.

Between all the medical issues, surgeries and lack of deep sleep, it’s not surprising that your wife is experiencing depression, lack of energy, mood swings, etc.

When sleeping, does your wife snore, gap for air sometimes, seem to start awake, have leg or body jerks?

See if you can have your go to a sleep doctor and do a sleep study. I think she might need one to figure out what’s going on with her light sleeping.

Also.. now back to you. I’m very familiar with things like needing few hours of sleep and doing things like watching TV and/or a computer screen well into the night. When a person does this, they interrupt their body’s ability to make Melatonin so they do not get tired at a normal time. Instead they push themselves on and on. The light from the screen and any light bulbs in the room prevent them from getting sleepy. When they do finally feel ready to go to bed… It’s not the normal sleepiness a person experiences. Instead it’s a level of exhaustion. If you are playing computer games until the wee hours of the morning, you are interfering with not only your wife’s sleep but your own. You will burn yourself out with time. 

You might be a person who needs only 4-5 hours of sleep a night. But I’d bet that your uses of TV screens and their light and high refresh rates are the real reason that you don’t have a more normal sleep pattern. 

Even this thing you and your wife do of watching TV until she’s ready to go to sleep is bad for her and you. It could be one of the reasons that she sleeps lightly.

It is healthy in a relationship for the two spouses to go to bed/sleep at the same. 

I think that both of you would benefit if you look into sleep hygiene.

If you insist of putting computer games and TV ahead of your sleep, at least go to another room and do not interrupt your wife’s sleep. 

If she can start to get good, deep sleep for at least 8 hours a night you will find that she will start acting far more stable.

A book I recommend on this topic is: 

Sound Sleep, Sound Mind: 7 Keys to Sleeping through the Night Paperback by Dr. Barry Krakow


All of the above is from personal experience. There is a saying: “If I had known I would last this long, I would have taken better care of myself.” Think about that.



.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Zanne- Her previous relationships as far as I know ended as well as they can I guess. Her last walked out on her and the kids after 5 years, stating this wasn't what he wanted. She tells me he never helped with anything, couldn't even mow the yard so her dad would. Also, she found out he was cheating on her. He and I talk regularly when he comes to get the kids, and he's repeatedly told me she has major head issues from her childhood, and that she's manipulative to get her way. On the other side, he's said she's a great mom and girl, but she needs help. 

One night after a bad fight and her telling me to leave (this was about 5 months in), we cooled off and the next day we made up. She told me that she was frightened and had called her ex to let him know the situation, and he told her he'd help with whatever she needed. Well, I asked him about it, and his reply, "she never called me or told me anything". I was baffled as to why she'd make that up, but I just shrugged it off. Not the first time she's made up a story. She's bought things off eBay, told me that she ordered some things for me and it was a surprise. I was like, sweet, so I didn't say anything. Well, days and weeks went by, nothing arrived for me, so I asked here and there about the surprise for me, and she'd get defensive like, why am I asking. I already knew the answer, it was on the laptop when I went to use it, eBay was open and I saw that she didn't order anything for me, she ordered herself a purse and some jewelry. I again, just shrugged it off.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So now about depression.

Clearly your wife is depressed. It is highly likely that the reason she does not do much around the house is due to the depression. It makes a person lethargic, very lethargic. I also makes them not care about anything. It could also be a large part of the reason that she just lets things go with her children. It takes a lot of energy to raise kids. It sounds like she does not have that energy.

Doing things like posting on Facebook all day (or other similar activities) can be part of depression. What happens is that it’s just a lot easier to sit there and respond/post. It’s a very low energy activity that a person can zone out to. The same with TV watching.

Your wife is on Wellbutrin for 2 weeks. 2 weeks is not long enough for Wellbutrin to build up to the necessary levels in the body. It could very well take her 3-4 months before she has the energy and enthusiasm to function at a normal level. 

There are some good things about Wellbutrin. It is an energizer unlike a lot of medications for depression. It often also increases a person’s sex drive. You just need to give it time.

Going back to the sleep issue. I’ve read articles recently about things that scientists have learned about the brain more recently that are pertinent here. They have to do with depression and sleep.

Our bodies has several systems for removing waste. However our brains do not. Scientists have wondered how the brain eliminates waste. It turns out that when a person is in a deep sleep, the brain switches functionality and goes into waste elimination mode. If a person does not get good sleep, their brains do not have ample time to go through the waste animation phase. The results are a mucked up mind… it can interfere with brain functions, moods, thinking process, cause depression, etc. 

Another thing that the body does during sleep is to produce the brain hormones like serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, and many others. The brain only produces these chemicals during sleep. Clinical depression is caused by a lack of these hormones and/or the brain’s inability to uptake some of them. In your wife’s case the issue is probably dopamine and noradrenaline as those are the ones that Wellbutrin works on.

It seems that your wife is clinically depressed. Her actions, or inaction, indicate this. Her doctor seems to think so as she has been prescribed an antidepressant. She needs time for it to work. She should also be going to therapy as that can help her with healing the depression. She also needs to be getting uninterrupted sleep for a lot of reasons.
Once the depression is under control and managed, much of what you are complaining about here will take care of itself.

I know that it can be very hard to deal with spouse who is suffering from depression. I’m sure that if you search the internet you can find ideas of things you can do to help her get better, faster. I have given you some ideas. But there is a lot of info out there.



.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Hi Uptown, thank you for the welcome and the information. Also, thanks to all of you whom have contributed here for my benefit, I appreciate all the help. 

I've read the links you've inserted in the reply, and I recognize many of them. So often I question my own self, am I the issue, am I going nuts, a narcissist, a sociopath (which she's informed me I have the signs of being). 

I'm no saint, never claimed to be. I have my shortcomings, and sometimes I tell myself after a situation, I could have handled that differently. I do internalize a lot. I'm in sales, pressure to perform is par for the course, so yes I get stressed out often. Do the kids stress me out, yes, but my thoughts on that are it's normal. I don't scream at them, I do push them to be better, help themselves and show them how to do things, but mom has them trained that she'll come at their every request. Which she then blows up about...slams doors, stomps around, says all the time "I swear". That's her favorite saying these days. Every time I hear that, I cringe knowing I better not do or say anything to push her further. Walking on eggshells is uncomfortable, hurts my feet.  Yes, I use humor to hide my pain, I make no bones about it. I've always been more of a lone wolf when it comes to my feelings, and occasionally I'll reach out to my family or a friend to bounce things off of them. But hey, who wants to hear someone else's problems, they have their own to deal with. Saying that, this is the first time I've ever reached out to the web for help...baby steps.  

Here I am on a Saturday night, we're still barely talking and I just finished shoveling the snow off the driveway. I spent a few hours building Legos with her 6 yo earlier, but for the most part I've been keeping to myself. I lit a fire in the fireplace last night because she text me she was taking the boys to do something and would be home later. So I spent the evening reading and watched a movie in the living room. She came home, didn't say much, then went to the kids room with them and there she's stayed like she's been doing all week. So i went to the bedroom, shut the door and watched tv, played my game a bit then to sleep. It's like I don't know what I should be doing, cleaning, watching a movie, but I've definitely not been playing my game while she's awake, even tho she's ignoring me and told me things aren't going to work. I'm at a complete loss here...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Zanne said:


> I don't know, EleGirl. I think his wife has more going on than depression and lack of sleep. Your advice can only help to improve the situation, but he may want to seriously consider reading the links Uptown provided. IMO.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am very reluctant to jump on board with diagnosing someone over the internet.

The doctor who actually did see her in person apparently diagnosed depression. The doctor will have follow ups with her, and be able to access how she is doing. 

I also suggested that she get into therapy; I’ll add with a very good phycologist or a psychiatrist. By doing this she will have a person who is capable of diagnosing any further issues with her. She definitely needs to deal with her issues from her childhood.

As devil’s advocate: Let’s say that she does have what Uptown is suggesting. Even if she does she can also have clinical depression. The clinical depression must be dealt with first. It also sounds like she is not getting good sleep. Without good and enough sleep, person can act in the same manner as any number of mental health issues. 

What I suggested would help no matter what her problems are. 

He needs to get her to a good psychologist or a psychiatrist so that she can get the help she needs and have someone monitoring her. That person can identify any further mental health issues if they exist.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SirJustified said:


> So often I question my own self, am I the issue, am I going nuts....


Perhaps you are the problem, SJ. And perhaps you are "nuts," as you say. Yet, if your W has strong BPD traits, being "nuts" is exactly how you should be feeling. Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused spouses feel like they may be losing their minds. This happens because the abused spouses mistakenly believe that, if only they can figure out what THEY are doing wrong, they can restore their BPDer spouse to that wonderful human being they saw during the courtship period. 

Simply stated, it is very confusing and disorienting to live with an unstable person who flips -- in ten seconds -- between adoring you and devaluing you. The result is that therapists see far more abused spouses -- coming in to find out if they are really going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.



> Her last walked out on her and the kids after 5 years.... he's repeatedly told me she has major head issues from her childhood.


Perhaps he's right, SJ. After all, the man did have five years experience living with her. If she does have strong BPD traits, her having early childhood problems is exactly what you should expect. A recent survey of BPDers found that 70% of them report that they had experienced abandonment or abuse during childhood. Moreover, I agree with Zanne that you're describing behavioral issues that go well beyond simple depression problems -- and which appear to have started at least ten years ago when the suicide attempt was made.



> She is a princess, but she's also got a very sweet and tender side.


SJ, her having a "very sweet and tender side" does NOT rule out her having strong traits of a personality disorder like BPD. Indeed, the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning people who have a sweet and caring side. A BPDer's problem is not being_ bad _but, rather, being emotionally _unstable_. It therefore is not surprising that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD, if their biographers are to be believed.



> Which she then blows up about...slams doors, stomps around, says all the time "I swear". That's her favorite saying these days.


If your W really does have strong BPD traits, her emotional development likely is frozen (by the childhood trauma and/or genetics) at the level of a four year old. She therefore has very little skill in regulating her own emotions. This inability to regulate emotions -- together with tremendous anger carried inside from childhood -- is why BPDers throw temper tantrums that typically last several hours and can be triggered in ten seconds.



> I was baffled as to why she'd make that up, but I just shrugged it off. Not the first time she's made up a story.


Perhaps she did make up the story as you suspect, SJ. Yet, if she really is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), it is more likely she simply doesn't recall it correctly. I say this because BPDers are notorious for "rewriting history." One reason is that a BPDer experiences very intense feelings due to her inability to regulate emotions. Due to her immaturity, she is unable to intellectually challenge those intense feelings. Instead, she accepts intense feelings as self-evident "facts" and thus will re-create reality in her mind to comport with the intense feeling which she is convinced MUST be right.

Another reason for the recall inaccuracies is that a BPDer had such an unpleasant childhood that she frequently escaped reality by daydreaming into the past or the future. It therefore is common, when a BPDer is uncomfortable about the ongoing discussion, for her to escape by daydreaming -- a mild form of dissociation. That is, BPDers often have difficulty in maintaining "mindfulness," i.e., in remaining in the room and in the conversation instead of escaping into a daydream. This is one reason why it is very common for a BPDer to be unable to recall a remark or agreement made only a day or two earlier.



> I cringe knowing I better not do or say anything to push her further. *Walking on eggshells is uncomfortable*, hurts my feet.


Funny you should mention that, SJ. _Stop Walking on Eggshells_ is the name of the #1 best selling BPD book that is targeted to the abused spouses and family members.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> What I suggested would help no matter what her problems are.


I agree, EleGirl. The information you provided about depression is very insightful. 



> I am very reluctant to jump on board with diagnosing someone over the internet.


Nobody on this thread has attempted to diagnose anyone. EleGirl, you are confusing _"spotting warning signs"_ for _"making a diagnosis."_ There is a world of difference between those two actions. For example, although most adult women know how to identify the warning signs for breast cancer, they don't have sufficient training to be able to diagnose it. Likewise, most men know the warning signs for stroke and heart attack but don't have a clue as to how those disorders are diagnosed. Similarly, most adults are capable of spotting the warning signs for BPD if they take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list.

Before SJ graduated high school, he already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. He could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. He could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And he could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, he will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur if he takes a little time to learn what traits are on the list. 

Importantly, spotting BPD traits does not imply a person "has BPD." Indeed, BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that one "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is simply a group of basic human behaviors that everyone has to some degree. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." At issue, then, is not whether SJ's wife is exhibiting BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she is exhibiting them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., whether she is on the upper half of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe that SJ is capable of spotting any strong BPD traits that are occurring. There is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, always being "The Victim," and suicide attempts.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Zanne said:


> I agree, but how does he go about doing this when it appears she is barely speaking to him?


Time.... 

Unless one of them walks out the door never to return, she will need to come around. 

He can encourage that by giving in just a bit. He was wrong to interrupt her sleep the way he has been. Apologizing to her for doing that might go a long way.

Yes I know she has thing to apologize to him for. But he's the one here asking, so he's the one who has to take the first step.

He could write her a letter if she will not listen to him right now.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Uptown said:


> SG, welcome to the TAM forum. I suggest that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and the kids are dealing with. I advise this because you've mentioned several red flags indicating she may have a serious disorder warranting professional treatment in individual therapy. One red flag, of course, is the suicide attempt before you met her.
> 
> A second red flag are her frequent attempts to push you out of the house -- when you are less than two years into your marriage. As you say,_ "So, many of those arguments she's resorted to telling me to leave, we're done, this isn't gonna work."_ A third red flag is her extreme sensitivity to your comments and insecurity. This seems evident, for example, in your comment that _"she'll ask me all the time are you sure you love me, and are still in love with me? I get this question on a very regular basis."_
> 
> ...


This, read it read it again, and the read it some more until it sinks in


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Way too much drama in your life.

Married after only dating 6 months after both having multiple previous marriages & a total of 6 children between you.

Seriously?

Did you actually expect this to be a problem-free marriage until death do you part?

Your marriage does not consist of just the two of you. There are also multiple other parents, extended FOO's, 6 children of different ages & development, childhood baggage & the list goes on.

You can certainly try marriage counseling but that will require so much work on both parts. Good luck.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

I've started reading No More Mr Nice Guy, very insightful, thanks for recommending the book. 

At this stage I'm not sure what to do, or even what I want. Part of me yearns for her and wants to make things right, then the other part of me wants to move past all of this. I love her and the kids, but maybe the best thing I can do is keep my mouth shut and let her do her own thing, which I've been doing this week. The awkwardness in the house is about as much as I can take though. We walk back and forth thru the house, occasionally saying a few words to each other. I've been confining myself to my bedroom, and doing things around the house to keep my mind off of all of this. 

I don't know if writing her a letter would help at this point either. Apparently she's posted something regarding being a single mom and trying to raise kids on her own on Facebook, which I was told by a friend who saw it. I checked for myself and obviously she's hidden that conversation from me seeing it. This infuriates me, her going to a social site to spread the news, which knowing her is another cry for attention. I honestly don't know if she's waiting for me to come grovel, and beg her to stay and admit the error of my ways, or if she's truly dead set on leaving. It's as if I'm waiting for her tender side to snap back into her and realize that we both need to fix things instead of having another failed marriage. I say that because typically this is what's happened, we argue, have a cool down period, I apologize and then she comes full circle and realizes how much she loves me and she was wrong too. This is not that way apparently, as we've never gone a week like this. Being in this house together and not knowing is the hardest, again, the awkward feeling of not talking and doing our own thing. 

I overhead her talking to her mom last night about her welbutrin, and she was taking I believe 150mg, but she's going to ask for 300mg. Now she told me the reason behind getting that prescription was depression, then she tells her mom it's to help quit smoking. Idk what I can do at this point except try and help her and the kids maybe find a place, or should I just leave that to her?


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

Swallow your pride brother. Don't be an a-hole to your wife. When MIL asked when you were doing presents at the party what you answered was a major a$$hole answer. What you should have said is "I'm not sure, let's check with <insert wife's name>. Then you go find out. Say, sweetie, what time would you like to open presents? She'd probably answer then you go back to MIL and tell her. Everybody's happy. Sometimes the "alpha" male has too much pride and acts like an a$$. Swallow that pride my man. Pride comes before the fall. It has probably destroyed thousands of marriages over the years. Maybe more.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Sometimes the "alpha" male has too much pride and acts like an a$$.


Alpha males never act like an ass. They don't have to. They know their worth and petty squabbles are beneath them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SirJustified said:


> At this stage I'm not sure what to do, or even what I want.


No hurry. No need to make decisions right now.


SirJustified said:


> I don't know if writing her a letter would help at this point either.


Nice Guys write letters/whine/beg. Alpha guys don't need to write letters. They speak OUT LOUD and say what they want. 


SirJustified said:


> Apparently she's posted something regarding being a single mom and trying to raise kids on her own on Facebook, which I was told by a friend who saw it. I checked for myself and obviously she's hidden that conversation from me seeing it.


Ask her about it. 


SirJustified said:


> if she's truly dead set on leaving.


Unfortunately, usually when women say they're leaving, they are FAR beyond staying. 


SirJustified said:


> It's as if I'm waiting for her tender side to snap back into her and realize that we both need to fix things instead of having _another failed marriage_. I say that because _typically_ this is what's happened, we argue, have a cool down period, I apologize and then she comes full circle and *realizes how much she loves me and she was wrong too*. This is not that way apparently, as we've never gone a week like this.


Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what arguing does to most women? Each argument is stored up in memory and, when they hit the limit of resentment (over the male ego's expecting her to just get over it and calm down and come around like she 'typically' does and apologize), guess what? She is almost always done. Unless the man in the situation realizes he can't just expect her to get over the arguing.


SirJustified said:


> I overhead her talking to her mom last night about her wellbutrin, and she was taking I believe 150mg, but she's going to ask for 300mg. Now she told me the reason behind getting that prescription was depression, then she tells her mom it's to help quit smoking. Idk what I can do at this point except try and help her and the kids maybe find a place, or should I just leave that to her?


Wellbutrin is given for 3 reasons, usually - smoking cessation, depression, and weight loss. And she's ashamed of her relationship problems regarding her mom, and her mom's bad opinion of her, so she lies. 

And at this point, you should be working on YOU, reading the books we recommend, seeing an IC, working hard to stop being a Nice Guy and to start speaking the truth to her when you have the chance. Honesty is usually a woman's top 2 or 3 Emotional Needs. Are you being honest?


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

turnera said:


> Alpha males never act like an ass. They don't have to. They know their worth and petty squabbles are beneath them.


I guess I meant to say false alpha males. The guys who buy big trucks becaue they're compensating for small things in other places. Phony alpha males.


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

She's being immature by not facing your issues by talking about them and trying to find a solution to them. She is way too comfortable. The longer you let her sleep in the other room, the deeper the hole is becoming. Yes it's ok to give someone space sometimes, but not days..wks.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

I decided to write a letter, a 10 page one at that. I outlined how I felt, things I've held onto that have hurt me between us, her behavior, my behavior. I apologized for things I've said and done, such as my gaming when she was sleeping or wanting my attention and I ignored her. I reinforced that I still love her and I would like things to be different, and even though I know there are many issues here, mine and her own, we both need to be happy at the end of the day. 

So I put it in the kids room, then took them outside to play in the snow and build a snowman, or at least what looks like one. lol Trying to smile here. Came back in, took a shower and ate and she's not said a word about the letter. I'll just continue on with my day, do some more reading, push forward...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SirJustified said:


> I decided to write a letter, a 10 page one at that. I outlined how I felt, things I've held onto that have hurt me between us, her behavior, my behavior. I apologized for things I've said and done, such as my gaming when she was sleeping or wanting my attention and I ignored her. I reinforced that I still love her and I would like things to be different, and even though I know there are many issues here, mine and her own, we both need to be happy at the end of the day.
> 
> So I put it in the kids room, then took them outside to play in the snow and build a snowman, or at least what looks like one. lol Trying to smile here. Came back in, took a shower and ate and she's not said a word about the letter. I'll just continue on with my day, do some more reading, push forward...


:banghead:

Didn't I just tell you not to write a letter? Didn't you just say you were reading NMMNG? Was that an untruth? Because if you had been reading it, SURELY by now you would have figured out you don't ever leave letters, least of all 10-page letters, and most of all not letters apologizing for being the scum of the earth while she walks on water.

*sigh*


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Yep, you're right, I shouldn't have written that. Received a letter back from her, essentially saying we both deserve to be happy and my letter helped make the decision easier. She said she's kind of known this was inevitable, and is tired of acting like a robot, being afraid of the future. She said she's trying to find a job, so she can make plans, and hopefully we can be civil about this for the kids sake. She didn't get into blame, it was short and ended with, "sorry it came to this".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, at least you know now that we know what we're talking about.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Yes I do. Any suggestions on what I do now? Give her a time frame to get into a new place, leave it be and do me?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

This does seems to be a very fast decision or maybe she's been thinking about it for some time. The question is how quickly is she likely to find another job and will she move out before she finds one (and if she does move out without a job can she manage with just the child support she receives until she finds one).


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

I don't know, I'm shocked. Just a week ago, here's a text I received from her, which is what I've said before, she's always asked me this over and over again since day 1: 

Are you sure you still love me? :'( I have this icky feeling again like something bad is about to happen. Seriously. And I will probably have to go to the hospital once you get home.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She sounds very insecure. 

Well, obviously the next step is to sit down and talk to her about this. The sooner the better so you know exactly what the story is (or as much as she is willing to divulge).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So either she's mentally unstable or else she's been getting her ducks in a row - either by herself or with someone else's help. Barring abuse, I don't know of ANY woman with kids willing to just walk away without financial stability set up.

Are you SURE you know what she's really up to?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> So either she's mentally unstable or else she's been getting her ducks in a row - either by herself or with someone else's help. Barring abuse, I don't know of ANY woman with kids willing to just walk away without financial stability set up.
> 
> Are you SURE you know what she's really up to?


:iagree:
Ugh
Have you checked her phone records?
I guess at this point it doesn't really matter buy a voice activated recorder and keep it on you until the crazy train is over.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Given her past and present behavior, I'd definitely say she's mentally unstable. She functions just fine with the kids, and does her daily thing, but she's all over the place. I know she's been applying to jobs, plus her family will help with $ if need be. She gets $1,200 a month for support, so it's feasible she can find a cheap place. I know we have our finances combined right now, and she's hoping I'll pay all the bills, which I will because I'm staying here in the house. She's given me her checks to deposit from the child support, but after this I'm switching my money around to my own account just to be safe. I'm going to talk to her tonight, see what she has planned. Far as I know right now, her plan is to stay here until she gets a job and has the $ to move out. I am not okay with that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Best way to wake WAWs up is to show them you will NOT support her. But then that means that she might choose you just because she has no other financial support, and you'll never know. You should still check her phone records.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SirJustified said:


> Yep, you're right, I shouldn't have written that. Received a letter back from her, essentially saying we both deserve to be happy and my letter helped make the decision easier. She said she's kind of known this was inevitable, and is tired of acting like a robot, being afraid of the future. She said she's trying to find a job, so she can make plans, and hopefully we can be civil about this for the kids sake. She didn't get into blame, it was short and ended with, "sorry it came to this".


Even when I suggested a letter.. it was not a 10 page manifesto. It was one short paragraph as an olive branch. What your letter did was to catalogue exactly why she wants out. :scratchhead:

Slow down.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree. Check her phone records.

Stop paying for anything that you do to have to pay for yourself. She can use her support money for her own children.

You can also still be polite, etc. You need to know if you will accept a it if she makes a change of heart and wants to try again with you. If you do, you need to know what you will require that you both do to rebuild the marriage.

If you don't want to go on. Then know that and stick to it.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Sounds like you are the one with the level head and she is rather spoiled and is taking advantage of your kindness. You mentioned you have addressed issues with her about FaceBook (I would feel the same as you about the pics and all the time spent on the site) and about the house & kids, etc but she gives you excuses. So she is hearing you but has no intentions of doing anything about your requests so you have a couple choices here. Take her to counseling and let the counselor work with her and you to come up with solutions for the issues. Or give her goals like, "Sweetheart, could you have that wonderful pot roast wanting for me when I get home from work?" And if she will not agree then ask her what does work? If she agrees and then does not come thru, address it, find out why. If you find it a trend that is happening over and again where she will not come thru with requests or things she is agreeing to then it is time for an ultimatum where you express what you will no longer be able to provide as long as the behavior continues. She needs a wake up call and by the sounds of things you've been too kind.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

I am really uncomfortable with the way that you are describing your marriage. You are the great dad, helper, lover etc and she is the what? Insecure, lazy, disrespectful housewife? If my husband were to write a post it would sound very similar to yours...yet if you were to read my story you would see a completely different side. 

You state you are not okay with her mooching off your hard earned wages until she gets a job then she leaves. So you have already checked out of the marriage to think that your wife is mooching. Your wife. That you agreed to be a SAHM. The fact is that SAHM get a lot of flack simply because they don't work. Your wife knows the truth that if she was working you wouldn't have something to hold over head. i.e. you work and she doesn't. She could keep that house immaculate and give you sex whenever and I can almost guarantee that you would still find fault with her and the justification would be "I work and she doesn't" so how could she spend so much time on FB and posting selfies...

If she gets a job and you have stopped doing your part to show her what she's missing she will know that you had been using her financial dependence on you to keep her in line and she will go. If she gets a job and all of a sudden you have to pick up more slack, are you going to be okay with that? Her getting a job could raise her self esteem. It might mean changing a host of things that are absolutely necessary. If she has to be at work your kids are going to have to go to bed and get up at a reasonable time. Dinner will have to be done at reasonable time and you guys will get to trade off doing it. Her getting a job may be the best thing to happen to your marriage. Support her in it. Help her with it. Flowery I love yous do not show love.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Turnera- What's a WAW? 

I asked her to talk last night, so I could get a feel for what her plan is. She didn't have one really, but said she wants to keep the kids in the same school and she's hoping to find a job soon, so she's wanting to stay until she finds a job and has enough $ to make a move. I told her I wanted to keep things civil, not just for the kids but for our mental health as well. We could still talk, say hi and good morning as we usually do instead of ignoring each other completely. She's worried about who will watch the kids when she gets a job as we/she have no one to help. I offered to help her with what I could. She started to get very emotional and teary eyed, as did I, so that's all that was said. 

This morning was actually better, we exchanged good morning, and she had my lunch put together like she usually does, then in a sad voice and face told me to have a good day. Progress from the stonewalling that's been going on.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Erudite-

Nah, not trying to paint the picture as me being all wonderful, a great dad or anything other than I am, flawed. I make plenty of mistakes- don't spend enough time with the kids, lately with her, do my share of complaining about my day, drink a few too many glasses of wine on occasion. 

I of course accepted her being a SAHM, and have supported that. I do value her work and worth, in my words and actions. I go to work, come home, do the dishes a lot, clean around the house, help bathe the kids, take out the garbage...you get the point. I do not come home and open a can of, "I am home, cater to me because I'm a man and I have a job". On a regular basis I make sure and thank her for all that she does. We both have responsibilities, mine is to work and provide, and hers is to take care of the kids and house. In no way, shape or form am I trying to sound in control or like I'm the boss, it's our roles, plain and simple. As I've said before, I don't say anything to her when the house is a total mess, dinner hasn't been made and I log in to Netflix and she's watched tv most of the day. I know she's battled depression and needs a job and out of the house, it'll help her tremendously with her self esteem and self worth. I just take care of things and she'll oftentimes say, "I was gonna do that". No biggie, I got your back. Sometimes though, enough is enough. I'm not perfect, but I try to be helpful and thoughtful. 

I couldn't help but get a feeling of bitterness and a sense as if I was being attacked when I read your post. Just my two cents. Regardless, thanks for the information.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Another thing, I've not checked out of my marriage by my choosing. She's set the tone, flat out told me her decision, I'm just trying to come to terms with what could happen. I also never said I wasn't okay with her mooching off of my hard earned wages, don't know where you pulled that one from other than something bothering you. I simply stated, "I'm not okay with that". Meaning, it'll be very hard to be in the same house with the woman I love, knowing she is leaving. Has little to do with money, well, I don't want to be broke either, but that wasn't what I meant or thought when I wrote that. Keep in mind, around a month ago she drained our savings account after an argument. I'm trying my best to be cautious, supportive and to keep my own life together...its not easy.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

SirJustified said:


> Erudite-
> 
> Nah, not trying to paint the picture as me being all wonderful, a great dad or anything other than I am, flawed. I make plenty of mistakes- don't spend enough time with the kids, lately with her, do my share of complaining about my day, drink a few too many glasses of wine on occasion.
> 
> ...



Yes I am bitter. My life is a wreck. So take that to heart! You may have blinders up over your own action that interfere with your marriage. You are mightily entrenched in the "I am not perfect but" mindset. My advice is to wait for her to get a job. Full stop. If you push her about where, when, why and how she's going to move then, guess what, you ARE holding your financial influence over her head like a dare and she will move! You can give her a time limit but she will move when she is ready not on your time or any way that makes things easier for you. She will act when it is in her best interest. If there is a time limit make it one in your head. I can tolerate this for x long and then I am gone. If you try to force a time limit on her that is just a bullying tactic.

And for the record you already stated that you weren't okay with her staying until she finds a job. You call her mentally unstable, and you are thinking about switching bank accounts...that's where I getting some of my assumptions....*shrug*

ETA: She flat out told you what she thought you wanted to hear after you sent her a ten page missive. People who have made plans definitely DO NOT tell you what they are intending to do. Sure she has been contemplating it but has there been any actual moves toward it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SirJustified said:


> Another thing, I've not checked out of my marriage by my choosing.


She is not going anywhere for a while. So if you want try to save your marriage and fix it, you have an opportunity. What you can do it to start working on yourself and in doing so stop doing things that were not good (love busters). Just stopping the negative should make a HUGE difference. 

What I suggest is that you get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them. Then see if you can get her to read them and work through them with you.

Do you Love Buster's first. The idea is that you two have to stop love busting before the marriage can be fixed.

For example: 

Her constantly telling you that she is leaving is a HUGE love buster. She cannot ever do that again. Threatening to leave is emotional abuse.

You playing games and watching TV while she is trying to sleep is a love busters. You have already realized that you need to stop this.

If you try all of the above and she does not come around, at least you will know that you did all that you could.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

EleGirl-

Thanks for recommending "Love Busters", I've been listening to it today and wow does it make sense so far. Help me here. If I stop doing the negative things I've done in the past, such as: ignoring her emotional needs, playing my game when we're in bed and she's trying to sleep, not being as involved with her kids, not talking to her as much as I should or would like, how do I rectify this when we're not in the same bedroom anymore and she's essentially told me she's done and we need to both move on to be happy? Do I make more of an effort to talk to her, do things with the kids, take my xbox out of the bedroom even tho she's not in there? 

I of course want a happy marriage, and when we've had "us" time and were in sync, it's amazing. I know I've made mistakes and so has she, and I'm willing to work on myself to make it work. I'm also reading "No More Mr Nice Guy", its been very fitting of me so far.


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## MacyLu (Mar 2, 2015)

Sir, sorry to hear about your troubles which are too many to have to deal with imo. No children together makes this a no-brainer and if I were you I would walk, no, run, as fast as you can and get out.

Too many emotional issues and baggage and had you dated her longer you would have seen she is a highly manipulative person.


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

MacyLu- Kind of hard to walk away, much less run. I'm keeping the house, and have nowhere else to go in the short term. 

I should have known better than to rush into the marriage, both of us should have. At the same time, I do love her, so I'm conflicted. I'd love for things to work out, but I also have feelings that I should move past this for my own wellbeing. Ugh


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## SirJustified (Feb 28, 2015)

Ugh, why is this so hard and hurt so much??? It's so hard being in the same house and not feeling that warmth between us anymore. I caved this morning and gave her a hug and told her good luck on her interview today. Trying to keep my mind busy, but it's hard...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok, so you have been listening to "Love Busters". Have you read or listened to "His Needs, Her Needs" yet?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SirJustified said:


> Ugh, why is this so hard and hurt so much??? It's so hard being in the same house and not feeling that warmth between us anymore. I* caved this morning and gave her a hug and told her good luck on her interview today.* Trying to keep my mind busy, but it's hard...


Why is that caving? That was the right thing to do.

That was a moment of warmth between the two of you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SirJustified said:


> EleGirl-
> 
> Thanks for recommending "Love Busters", I've been listening to it today and wow does it make sense so far. Help me here. If I stop doing the negative things I've done in the past, such as: ignoring her emotional needs, playing my game when we're in bed and she's trying to sleep, not being as involved with her kids, not talking to her as much as I should or would like, how do I rectify this when we're not in the same bedroom anymore and she's essentially told me she's done and we need to both move on to be happy?


You do what you can do in the current situation. So you know that if the opportunity to love bust comes up ... DO NOT LOVE BUST.



SirJustified said:


> Do I make more of an effort to talk to her, do things with the kids, take my xbox out of the bedroom even tho she's not in there?


Yes, you make an effort to talk to her and be interested in her feelings and whatever she is doing.. with out smothering her of course.

Yes you do things with the kids.

Yes you take the xbox out of the bedroom even tho she is not there... you want her to move back into the bedroom, right? 



SirJustified said:


> I of course want a happy marriage, and when we've had "us" time and were in sync, it's amazing. I know I've made mistakes and so has she, and I'm willing to work on myself to make it work. I'm also reading "No More Mr Nice Guy", its been very fitting of me so far.


I am sure that you have both made mistakes. But one of you has to make the first move. You are here asking, so you are it. 

If all of this does not work, at least you have given it one hell of a shot. And you will have learned how to be a better person.

It know it's hard, but give it time.


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