# Do or do not - there is no try



## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Hello,

Those who come here a bit more often have probable read my previous posts.

Quick summary
I felt more and more depressed and detached. Doubted that I love my wife. Contemplaited leaving. Decided to leave. Looked to buy an apartment.

And then a screeching halt!

I could not figure out why I wanted to leave but how at the same time I was not able to tell my wife or go through with it.
Basically I only admitted that I think it is better to leave after I was pushed in a corner while discussing my obvious uninterest in her going for a walk at night.

Things moved on, I was looking for an apartment.
Then she cried in my arms that we had so many plans, and she was right. These plans are great plans and I felt bad of missing out on some of the things we planned. And when my boss from the U.S. came to my office the next morning and asked me how i was, I just broke down a bit.
Interestingly though he told me that he has problems with his wife too and that all can be overcome.

So, the same day I put two and two together and came to the conclusion that I may feel so disharted about leaving and can't really go through withit because deep inside I may not actually want to leave.

As a wise screenwriter once wrote: "Do or do not - there is no try!" I made a mental U-turn and started to really, really work hard on my relationship. That was 10 days ago.

I told her that I don't want to leave but I need my room and I need to be able to do what I want when I want it without her questioning it. (this is about goign for a run alone, to the movies with (male) collegues, a hike here and there alone, maybe a weekend-hike once in a while alone, no discussions about the necessity of my working hours or business trips). That basically, is my condition to work it out.

Ever since then I went on long walks with my wife in the evening, went to a show in town, we spend a weekend hiking and had lots of fun. We will go to the movies tomorrow and spend the day in a different town.

I also took an afternoon "off" by going to a spa and sauna place all by myself. It was very relaxing.

The problem I have though is the following.
I am very understanding that she is still in distress and has had a hard time. 
But: She still complains that I am too reserved or detached. For instance most of the time she is instigating sex. I do this rather seldom (I don't think I have a low demand but she wants it before and after going to sleep, and I am just relly tired most evenings and it usually takes about one hour). She complains that I don't text back immidiately. She complains about my upcoming business trip (one week U.S.). I think I feel a lot of tension.

Hence I started to doubt my decision. I think about the future a lot and somehow this does not compute. If I go on a mental journey about me in ten years time - with or without my wife I come to the conclusion I would probably be better of without her. I don't like this notion but I don't know what to do about it.

There are some major issues which I still think I have a hard time coping with. The most important one: She demands that I do NOT go to councelling. I strongly believe that this will help me sort out my feelings but she insists. Hence I have made an appointment without her knowing, paying from some hidden money I put aside for my move out a few weeks back. I also have not disclosed this account yet. Doing something against her explicit will does not feel right. But she has been absolutely firm on this subject. She does not want counceling for neither myself, herself nor the both of us togehter.

So currently I am trying hard to improve the relationship with my wife but I am already thinking about planning for the worst case. 

That is disturbing.

To make things worse I know that I am in an emotional affair and it is bothering me a lot that I can discuss my feelings with the OW much easier and better than with myself. As far as I can tell, the emotional need is on my side, much less on hers. I don't know why she is coping with my whining every other day. But without her support I would currently go crazy.
So, no, I don't think I can end this.

Another co-worker(male) currently living in divorce is also helping me understand things and I am pretty open with him.
In the past he made some very down-to-the-mark predictions of how things would go. That is terrifying because he also thinks that it is a brave and honorable move I made when I decided to save my marriage. But he also said - after all that I told him - that he does not give it a high chance of succeeding.

So I am currently fighting on several fronts: 
- at home working with my wife and trying to be as understanding as possible while at the same time standing my ground in terms of my own needs (major issue in the past)
- fighting the demons inside me that tell me this won't work anyway
- at work keeping the OW as far away as possible (which is not really far)

I have no idea how I managed to f**k up my life that thouroughly 

It's a desaster of worth a Roland Emmerich movie  (at least I have not fully lost my sarcasm yet)

Thanks for reading

asdfjkl


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

asdfjkl said:


> Hello,
> 
> Those who come here a bit more often have probable read my previous posts.
> 
> ...


Although I'm sure your wife is not perfect and I don't understand why she's so against you going to counseling, you continue to strike me as an extremely self-centered man. I'm not sure you're capable of a good relationship with another human being.


----------



## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

So you want to do what you want when you want to. Don't have children.

I THINK what you are saying is you feel she questions you too much and smothers you too much. However, in a marriage, BOTH spouses have a right to ask "where are you going?" when you leave for a run or hike. Her asking about your upcoming business trip demonstrates interest in your life, career, struggles - she cares about what you are doing. I don't think either of those things are unreasonable whereas it appears these basic, normal couple things make you feel crushed. Maybe she perceives your emotional distance as a precursor to an affair which doesn't seem that unlikely given your EA.

I agree counseling will be very helpful because learning to identify your emotions can help immensely in learning to cope and/or discuss resolutions to those. Whether it's with your wife or another relationship. I don't know why she doesn't want you to seek IC or why she is so opposed to it. Maybe she heard some bad things from other people/couples, but like choosing any doctor of a speciality, sometimes you need a second opinion. If this one doesn't click with you, try another.

Have you considered changing jobs? You need to cut all communication with the OW. As long as you have a confidant, you will be painting your wife as the problem and not owning up to your personal failings (which we all have). And as long as you keep doing this, you are creating emotional distance between you and your wife. She WANTS you to talk to her about these things, obviously, since she says you are all closed up. You are sharing with another woman when what she wants is for you to share with HER. While some things might feel painful to share (to both of you), it's important to be open. When that happens, you may find yourself more closely aligned with your wife instead of your EA partner. Which may translate to a closer sexual relationship.

Which brings me to this - women's hormones tend to peak in the evenings. That's when we're most desirous. Men's tend to peak in the AM. Maybe you should try to initiate in the mornings when you are 'feeling it' since that's what your wife seems to do.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your wife is instigating sex because of hysterical bonding....... what you're doing to her is BEYOND painful! It's excrutiating. You should be appreciating your wife and instigating YOURSELF as much as possible. For you to be talking to another woman is both wrong, and really stupid. That DESTROYS any chance of feeling love for your wife in the way she needs it. You are NO DOUBT headed for divorce as long as you invest your emotions with another woman. I do think the counseling is a good idea, and not so bad that you keep it a secret as long as you either let her know soon or stop going.

You are not trying hard enough for your marriage. You said you would love your wife forever. She sounds like a pretty darned awesome wife. You should keep your promise. NO OW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

then again, I'm sure you won't follow reasonable advice, because you like the high of the other woman. But, again, it will destroy your marriage.


----------



## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Don't try to predict the future, ie. think of how your life will be 10 years down the road. I do that often too but my counsellor says we cannot predict the future, so don't make decisions today based on an imaginary 10-year-down-the-road scenario that does not exist. 

You are clearly willing to work on the marriage. But, you can't work on the marriage AND at the same time, talk to another woman and invest yourself emotionally with her. If I were in your shoes, I would tell the "other woman" that you are working on your marriage, you want things to work out with your wife, and therefore you two need to stop communicating. Then stay the hell away from her.

Then, and ONLY then, can you go ahead with reasonable chance of success.


----------



## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Although I'm sure your wife is not perfect and I don't understand why she's so against you going to counseling, you continue to strike me as an extremely self-centered man. I'm not sure you're capable of a good relationship with another human being.



That thought has ocured to me more than once. But I am not sure if blaming my supposed inability is not just a cowardly way to avoid responsibilities.



EnjoliWoman said:


> So you want to do what you want when you want to. Don't have children.
> 
> I THINK what you are saying is you feel she questions you too much and smothers you too much. However, in a marriage, BOTH spouses have a right to ask "where are you going?" when you leave for a run or hike. Her asking about your upcoming business trip demonstrates interest in your life, career, struggles - she cares about what you are doing. I don't think either of those things are unreasonable whereas it appears these basic, normal couple things make you feel crushed.


I have no problem that she asks me what I am about to do, where I am going or what I do at work.
It bothers me that I always have to justify why I am going for a run, why I want to do this or that, why I work utnil 7 or have to go on a business trip.

The children are not a problem. I like to spend time with them and they are fine with me gone from time to time.
They enjoy being alone over the weekend when my wife and I go out or hiking or whatever.


----------



## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife is instigating sex because of hysterical bonding....... what you're doing to her is BEYOND painful! It's excrutiating. You should be appreciating your wife and instigating YOURSELF as much as possible.


I don't think that sex is about "You have to!". It is solely about "Do you want to?".
If I don't feel like it, I believe I am not obliged to do anything. Same would be the other way round.


----------



## Tango in Triple Time (Jul 14, 2015)

You are having an EA. That needs to stop. How can your marriage improve if you are already half gone anyway?


----------



## Riptide (Nov 2, 2015)

You need to break off all contact with OW immediately and get into counselling. What you are doing to your poor wife is just cruel and not fair. I am on the other end of this and you cannot imagine the pain, hurt and stress you are putting on her. You have disengaged in the marriage and this EA is just a fantasy. Let it go. Your wife wants to work on the marriage but you seem to lack conviction to put any effort into the marriage. This will rear up into your next relationship and you will be in the exact same position you are now. If you are going to leave then man up and leave. Quit playing mind games with your wife. She deserves better

If you separate and still are in a relationship with your wife as you figure things out, there still needs to be transparency and honor your vows by not indulging in any outside relationship. You are playing games with your wife and I am sorry but people like you piss me off. I hope for your sake and more importantly your wife's sake you do some internal soul searching to figure your issues.


----------



## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Your wife's neediness is likely because she can sense your infidelity. If you don't go no contact with the OW, you will destroy your marriage. BTDT. You are being extremely cruel. 

Break it off with the OW, find some MALE friends for support, and be transparent with your W. There's nothing wrong with pursuing your own interests, but you need to be transparent and honest about your activities. 

I don't understand why she doesn't want you to go to counseling. You should, but be honest about it, not sneaky.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

asdfjkl said:


> I don't think that sex is about "You have to!". It is solely about "Do you want to?".
> If I don't feel like it, I believe I am not obliged to do anything. Same would be the other way round.


And I totally agree..... Fact is, though, you are having an affair and your wife NEEDS the sex to feel reassurance that you care for her and want her. It's different from just her badgering you for sex just because she's insensitive that you are tired or whatever. It's insensitive of you to deny her when you're emotionally distancing yourself from her by your own choice.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Why are you so restless? I don't see any real complaint against your wife at all. 

She wants sex and you turn her down? Why?

Does she irritate you?


----------



## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Why are you so restless? I don't see any real complaint against your wife at all.


Wel, I habe some complaints and she is working on those she can fix. (not working, not making sure kids learn for school, no drive to do anything etc.)
Some she will try to fix but it depends on me accepting some level of discomfort (how much do I feel she actually is okay with me spending time on my own, inviting family and friends to our house etc.)
Some she will never be able to fix and I have to learn to live with those (intellectual difference) 


LongWalk said:


> She wants sex and you turn her down? Why?


Why does everyone think: "good sex = everybody will be happy"?

Intercourse is great, it's fun, it is orgasmic. But, hey, if other things are perceived as problems, then there still are huge problems.

I get a bit annoyed with the "Hey man, you need to be the most happy man just because your wife is horny as hell!" This is a bit singleminded, isn't it?




LongWalk said:


> Does she irritate you?


It irritates me that I cannot communicate to her without being misunderstood. She often feels challenged and threatened by what I say.
It irritates me that when she is speaking of a weekend off here or there that the idea of spending the weekend with her is repelling.
It irritates me that I want to run a marathon in April but I don't want her to come along. I want to spend this weekend with my relatives and the day after the run all alone in a spa.
It annoys me that to her the opinion of other people matters above all. It is always "what would the neighbors think?" I don't care what they think, because in the end, they may raise an eyebrow or don't understand something, but I am sure they do not REALLY care! I don't either. Live and let live.
It irritates me that I always feel judged by her. She only thinks in catagories of does it look good or bad or is it in line with some early 50's view on husband, wife and famaly.

But my biggest problem is that I feel caged. I feel like a pet that is kept inside all the time to be adored and pampered totally ignoring that I can take care of myself and that I have needs other than being pampered and adored.
Staying with this mataphor I feel like a dog or a hawk. I want to be free to run/fly away to whereever I want to do whatever I want (except for infidelity, no interest there). i want to be able to leave my golden cage any time I feel like it without being asked WHY? I am fine with "where, for how long, what will you do ..." but not "why". I will ALWAYS return. I have no desire to not return. I will and I want to take care of my family but I cannot go on like now.

So long story short, I don't think there is too much wrong with my wife, I just don't know if I am ok enough for her good.

asdfjkl

P.S.: The EA: I reduced contact lately. I have never met her outside work. She has quit and will leave the company in mid December.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If two persons are truly incompatible, splitting is not unreasonable. You want two things: space for yourself and improvements in your wife.

The space will allow you to ignore or put up with what you find intolerable. Is that a kind of rug sweeping?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Well,
You should have determined the answer to these pretty plain and simple questions/problems before you got married. Why are these things suddenly a problem. How long have you been married? Do you have any kids? 

Honestly, in spite of the fact that your wife will be crushed (and you promised to love her, right), you should divorce her if you feel the way you describe. I don't think she or you will ever be happy and that is just not good. I feel like most likely you are a self-centered type of person that places little value on how others feel, but I could be wrong. There is no person that is going to make you happy all the time. You have to make your own happiness.. Nobody you ever find is going to be "perfect".
Your wife has problems-- so does EVERYBODY else. You may be trading her small (or large??) problems for even worse ones with another person. SOme people should never get married, and you may be one of those.

ANother EXTREMELY likely possibility is that you are in an emotional affair with someone else and have lost all feelings for your wife which AMPLIFIES to the googleplex power, all her little quirks and problems in your mind. 

Ask yourself this--- did you ever love her? Were you ever happy with her? IF yes, then you could be again if it weren't for your own problems. If no, then divorce her and let her find a man that loves her.

Just my opinion,
JBJ


----------

