# Spouse with Bipolar Type 2 / BPD and BDD



## somename (Nov 22, 2016)

Wife has serious mental health issues (extreme anger, anxiety, extreme opinions about people that switch depending on her mood, very high neuroticism, compulsive mouth breathing, hyperventilation, etc.). I strongly suspect she has either Bipolar Type 2 and/or BPD. She also most definitely has BDD (body dysmorphic disorder) - will compulsively keep touching parts of her body to "check" if she is getting fat. Her father has exact issues (BP2/BPD) as does few others in the paternal side of her family. Her mom is a classic narcissist with deep rooted insecurity (that she tries to mask) because her husband and daughter have mental health problems, even though she never admits it. 

I deeply love and care for my wife (and she loves me too), but it is getting hard to continue. I am also very concerned that our potential future kids may get the mental health issues from my wife's side. Took her to a psychiatrist who directed her to CBT/DBT before confirming diagnosis and/or prescribing meds. She did not do the therapy and has refused to see anyone since. She also completely disregarded the psychiatrist's suggestions for managing her issues.

She is more or less totally dependent on me (not financially, but emotionally, various life related logistics, career guidance, etc.) and I basically helped get her life on track after she graduated. I had no idea when we were dating that she has serious mental health problems. Back then I did not even know that bipolar has a type 2 or what BPD is. She can be an incredibly sweet person when not "episodic" but a nightmare during an "episode". Her moods almost always are at their extremes, be it happy, sad, angry, tense, whatever. I have been considering divorce for some time now, but feel really bad for her. On one hand I know in no uncertain terms that I absolutely need to get out of this marriage, but on the other hand I worry about what might happen to her if I leave. Specially since I know for a fact that her parents particularly her narcissist mom, will never admit that she has mental health problem and get her into therapy/meds. 

This is the only time in my life so far that I find myself in a state of indecision and it is getting a little tiring…


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

No kids, but considering it?

You have no idea how many people show up on TAM telling how even their “normal” wives changed for the worse after kids.

You’d be sure good whatever it takes to prevent her from getting pregnant.

I think you should detach and move on.
Thus stuff doesn’t get better, it gets worse.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

somename said:


> Wife has serious mental health issues (extreme anger, anxiety, extreme opinions about people that switch depending on her mood, very high neuroticism, compulsive mouth breathing, hyperventilation, etc.). I strongly suspect she has either Bipolar Type 2 and/or BPD. She also most definitely has BDD (body dysmorphic disorder) - will compulsively keep touching parts of her body to "check" if she is getting fat. Her father has exact issues (BP2/BPD) as does few others in the paternal side of her family. Her mom is a classic narcissist with deep rooted insecurity (that she tries to mask) because her husband and daughter have mental health problems, even though she never admits it.
> 
> I deeply love and care for my wife (and she loves me too), but it is getting hard to continue. I am also very concerned that our potential future kids may get the mental health issues from my wife's side. Took her to a psychiatrist who directed her to CBT/DBT before confirming diagnosis and/or prescribing meds. She did not do the therapy and has refused to see anyone since. She also completely disregarded the psychiatrist's suggestions for managing her issues.
> 
> ...


The mood swings will never stop and will most likely get worse as time goes on. You'll eventually be more of a caretaker than a husband. You cant bargain with these people to go to therapy. The person actually has to want to change and seek therapy and that rarely happens. If/when you ask for a divorce she may agree to therapy but that would be only to appease you, not to get help. 

They live in very black and white world's which is why the extremes. You can't stay only because you worry about what might happen to her. If she does have bpd the marriage will have an expiration date as eventually she will turn you black in her head. These relationships are ticking time bombs in general terms.


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## somename (Nov 22, 2016)

Thanks for the comments. I realize only too well that I have to leave this marriage. Without a doubt this is the most difficult decision of my life so far. I cannot express how incredibly sorry I feel for my wife, since I know that she is fundamentally not a bad person. At the same time having to swing between the extremities of her moods and deal with her very high neuroticism, body dysmorphia, extreme anger, anxiety, etc., is taking bit of a toll on me.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> I strongly suspect she has either Bipolar Type 2 and/or BPD.


SomeName, about 36% of women experiencing a bipolar-2 incident in the past year also have full-blown BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). See Table 2 at 2008 Study in JCP. 

I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar-1 foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found many clear differences between the two disorders.

*One difference* is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. A bipolar-1 sufferer swings between _mania_ and _depression_ and a bipolar-2 sufferer swings between depression and normality (with very little or no mania). In contrast, a BPDer flips back and forth between _loving you_ and _devaluing you_.

*A second difference* is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. 

*A third difference* is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours).

*A fourth difference* is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action.

*A fifth difference* is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

*A sixth difference* is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. While a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. 

*A seventh difference* is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger.

*An eight difference* is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.

BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.

*A ninth difference* is that the thinking and behavior of a BPDer includes more mental departures from reality (called "dissociation") wherein "feelings create facts." That is, BPDers typically do not intellectually challenge their intense feelings. Instead, they accept them as accurately reflecting your intentions and motivations. In contrast, bipolar disorder tends to be more neurotic in that the mood swings tend to be based more on extreme exaggerations of fact, not the creation of "fact" out of thin air based solely on feelings. 

*A tenth difference* is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. Sadly, this lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when people cannot trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will.

*An eleventh difference* is that, whereas BPDers are always convinced they are "The Victim," bipolar sufferers usually have a much stronger self image. BPDers therefore have a strong need to validate that false self image by blaming every misfortune on the spouse.

*Finally, a twelfth difference* is that, although bipolar sufferers are emotionally unstable, they generally are not immature or childlike. BPDers, in contrast, are so immature that their emotional development typically is frozen at about age four. This is why they have a very fragile self image and have difficulty controlling their emotions.


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## somename (Nov 22, 2016)

@Uptown, thanks for the information. Based on my research I strongly believe my wife is a BPDer. The information you have provided has only reinforced that belief. But, like yourself, I am no psychologist, and I realize many of the symptoms between bipolar-2 and BPD overlap. In any case, I am working to detach, mentally in the immediate term and legally in the foreseeable future.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

There are many forms of mental issues and some are more extreme than others. The problem is when a person does not want to help themselves or believe that there is even an issue possibly blaming it on the other person. 

I will tell you that being married for 18 years is difficult and I find that spouses anxiety is getting worse. It also takes a toll on me- a lot of unneeded stress. Yes, I loved him when I married him but the resentment is building due to him refusing help and just in denial about many things! My advice is to look into divorce. I know you love her and feel sorry for her BUT you need to let her go especially for your health and happiness.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SomeName, given that you intend to divorce her, I offer several suggestions. First, I recommend you read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. If your W is a BPDer, the divorce likely will get very nasty very quickly.

Second, I recommend several online articles: Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD and Leaving a Partner with BPD. Both of those are at BPDfamily. Also helpful are Pain of Breaking Up and Divorcing a Narcissist.


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## Shipwrecked (Jul 9, 2018)

Bipolar 2 wife here. Been married for 40 years next month. Rapid cycling Type 2. 
Unmedicated I had mood changes as frequently as every 2 days. 
I was undiagnosed until my early 40s sadly. I started self-medicating with alcohol at 13. I was an alcoholic by high school. Met my husband at college. He was a frat guy and a beer drinker tho not an alcoholic. 
We got married after living together 2 years, had first child 5 years after that. 
I know I wasn’t easy to live with all the time but between pot and alcohol we survived. 
Also, I tend to go manic, very few depressive turns. Unfortunately when manic I feel invincible, rarely sleep, undertake major projects like remodeling the house. Husband says it was exhausting trying to keep me out of trouble. I also had a tendency to shop when manic. 
I bought a $35,000 horse from Germany one night when I went manic. I ran my Amex up over $150,000 twice. Bad. 

Forward to major depression post-hysterectomy in early 40s. To psychiatrist for depression. Diagnosed as Bipolar and ADHD. Started meds. Met with psychologist 2-3 times a week usually just to talk, see how meds were doing. Tried a lot of different meds. Some lasted a week before I told my psychologist I didn’t like it. 
Took awhile but finally found right mix and I was able to stop drinking cold turkey without a cravings. Cut down on therapist to once a week. He could tell if I was starting to go manic in a couple minutes of talking and have psychiatrist adjust meds immed. 

I’ve never needed someone to ‘take care of me’ except financially before diagnosis due to my spending. 
I’ve always held good jobs - business system analyst for Fortune 15 co, assistant controller, and CPA for high wealth clients (glorified babysitting). 
The one time I went off my meds completely (bought retirement home on an island and ran out of meds with no way to refill) I immediatel recognized the ‘old me’ - racing thoughts, planning massive projects (250’ dock sound intelligent? Or cheap?) and I had to have force myself to stay out of the tiki bars cuz I craved Rum Runners. 

Yes, I still talk to anyone and tend to have no filter, but that could be the ADHD too. 
Medication can control mood swings well but requires constant monitoring. My insurance paid for 1 psychiatrist/med check a month and unlimited therapist/psychologist appts every month. 
I’ve known people who were given 6 months of pills and set loose. Never gonna work that way. And don’t expect a bipolar to be able to self monitor. Once they begin to slip into mood swing they can’t judge. 

The bad news - We believe my mother was Bipolar 1 and an alcoholic (self medicating). 
My 29 yr old son was recently diagnosed as bipolar while in a rehab center following an intervention for his alcoholism. He’s on medication now, sober and has gotten 3 promotions at work in 12 months now he’s got his life under control. Unlike me, He was slow cycling and tended toward depression. 
I definitely think there is a genetic element. 

Get your wife to a real psychiatrist - who can prescribe meds. 
I take 2 different pills daily. One an SSRI the other a ‘mood evener’. For awhile there were more. The right meds make all the difference.


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