# How do I turn off desire?



## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

What kind of guy (a) doesn't notice something like this for 16 years and (b) ignores it when it is brought to his attention? 

Try letting H "enjoy" sex without orgasms for a while. If he wants one (assisted), he can damn well help you.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Have been married for almost 19 years and have been faking it for most of that time but have recently through post on this site realize that it's my fault that I haven't been fulfill sexually. As women we buy into the fact that it's our partners responsibility to make us come but I've found out its not entirely true. You have to know your body enough to know what feels good to you and the only I found out was through self exploration. I also had to come clean to my husband. I enjoy having sex with him and am willing to engage in this activity anytime but I had to get over all the shame that I was conditioned to have as a "good girl". My advice is to buy you a vibrator with a clitoral stimulator like the rabbit and lock the door. You can ask your husband to play but if he won't than play by yourself. Also try to explain to your husband that sex has to be mutually satisfying experience in a marriage or else he will be flying solo as far as intimate activities are concerned.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Assuming you don't have orgasms on your own, that would be a great place to start. You need to know your own body first, and figure out what works for you and what will get you there. Not all of the pressure (or blame) should be on your husband.

That said, why does he not perform oral sex? Some 70% of women will not orgasm through PIV sex alone, and something else is absolutely required - oral sex being the easiest and, I assume, most fun.

My ex wife could not orgasm from direct clitoral stimulation (overly sensitive clit, painfully so), so oral sex wouldn't work for her. I still went down there, just avoided the clit, while she stimulated herself with a vibrator (again, not directly on her clit). She would also do the same during PIV, and she would have orgasms either way.

We/she learned this through exploration, on her own, or with me present, as well as a lot of communication. Basically, we figured it out.

Right now you're stuck. Your husband won't perform oral (again, WTH???) and you're one of the 70% for whom PIV doesn't result in orgasm.

A good starting point - masturbate if you don't already do so. Men generally don't have to figure out what it takes for them to have an orgasm, but women certainly do, and self-exploration is the only way.

During PIV sex, rub your clit, or have your husband do it. Easiest position for this is doggy style (from behind). I've only been with a handful of women in my life, and all of them have done this, even if they orgasm from PIV, like my wife does.

And I strongly suggest you guys get to the bottom of why he won't perform oral sex on you - ESPECIALLY if you do on him. Clitoral stimulation, as I've said, is the primary (and often the ONLY way) for a woman to reach orgasm. If he absolutely refuses to get over his hang up in that department, then at the very least, he should be manually stimulating you, before and/or during PIV sex.

So, bluntly put: figure it out, instead of doing the same thing over and over again with the same result.


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## woodyh (Oct 23, 2015)

Counseling usually doesn't change people, just helps you understand each other, as you found out, he doesn't desire to help you orgasm for whatever reason.

I agree with suggestions above, stimulate yourself during sex, use a vibrator during sex to help you orgasm. For do it yourself sex, get a vibrator or a rabbit. My wife has a rabbit
we use along with sex sometimes, it works wonders for her. DON"T give up on desire though, embrace it! Have fun even if hubby won't help you out.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

First of all, can you have an orgasm by yourself? If you don't know, then it's time to find out! If not, then even if your husband is willing to assist, you probably won't have one then either. If you can, then do it yourself when you have sex with him, and he may see what's missing and change his attitude.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Wow....your story is what a lot of men go through dealing with a repressed wife !! I feel for you.. he doesn't sound "workable" or open to new things.. spicing.. learning how to please you.. Is your husband a religious man? Why do you feel he has the aversions he does? Just trying to understand better... I would be very frustrated if I was you..

What works for you -alone to bring you to an "O"?


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Yes I deeply regret the online thing. and it has gotten worse after that. I know there's a big trust issue, which I know it's not easy to overcome if ever. But I wish he and I could talk about it and try to figure it out. The irony is that I went to that site to find out what I could do to spice things up with him, to find out what men liked. Of course it was the wrong place to go and again I regret it immensely but I don't think he'll ever forgive me. Or he's hiding behind that to get his way... 

I went to counseling alone at first and he joined me for a few sessions (4) but he was very defensive and not willing to budge an inch. He has a big thing about me not accepting who he is. I don't want him to change, I just want him to try a few new things to share what i like.

He's never gone down on me but he enjoys me going down on him. The thing is he's never tried it so how does he know he won't like it?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I have another question, *he refuses to talk about masturbation. He says I have to respect his limits and not talk about it. Is this normal? *I feel like I can't open up completely because there are 'secrets' so I never really know what he's thinking. He says Im overthinking things, that he just doesn't like talking about it. I'm sorry, Im a mess.


I am guessing he masturbates.. his NOT being religious sure throws a monkey wrench into all this though ! I was sure his issues had something to do with feeling "shame" or something twisted...

How was he raised.. what are his parents like.. do you know if he was ever *sexually abused* ?

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for what you did.. your intention was to spice up the marriage bed... in your weakness & vulnerability, from what is lacking at home .. you got caught up in a sexy exchange.. Anyone walking in your shoes could have easily fell.. 

What you are struggling with here...if not resolved with better communication and some effort *on his part* .. you will end up leaving this man.. he needs to understand that.. 

I give you credit for standing by him.. and doing all you can to find a solution.. but after a while. this is going to get real old.. he needs to step up and be a willing partner.. 

I hope he is not sneaking porn on the side.. if so..he sure has nothing on you !


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

BlueEyedWife said:


> *He's never gone down on me but he enjoys me going down on him. The thing is he's never tried it so how does he know he won't like it?*


He needs to be willing to read this book- written by a sex therapist, highly recommended....

She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman (Kerner) 



> "When it comes to pleasuring women and conversing in the language of love, cunnilingus should be every man's native tongue," writes clinical sexologist Ian Kerner, Ph.D. in She Comes First, a straightforward, intimate, and exuberant guide to cunnilingus. Kerner first explored "the oral caress" as a way of compensating for his "sexual inadequacies," and quickly learned that women not only welcomed but often preferred "the way of the tongue," reaching orgasm more consistently than through intercourse. Kerner educates readers about the clitoris, "the powerhouse of pleasure," with 18 parts and 8,000 nerve endings (twice as many as the penis) and describes female sexual response from "foreplay" through "coreplay" to "moreplay."
> 
> A large part of the book is a graphic, detailed primer on "mouth music," including best positions, step-by-step techniques (illustrated), and tips for tongue and fingers. How long should this last? Until the woman has an orgasm or many, says Kerner, and "melts blissfully before your eyes." "The vast majority of women complain about guys who don't like to do it, don't know how to do it, or simply don't do it nearly enough," writes Kerner. This book will change that. Women: Buy it for your partner!





> Dispelling the widely held myth of genital penetration as the apogee of sexual pleasure, Kerner, who holds a doctorate in clinical sexology, offers this witty, well-researched manual for "consistently leading women to orgasm" through cunnilingus. Loaded with practical anatomical information (the clitoris has 18 distinct parts, and more nerve fibers than any other part of the human body) and graphic line drawings, the book also touches on the less mechanical, more psychological aspects of oral sex, including the three assurances every woman needs from her lover to feel comfortable:
> 
> (1) "you enjoy it as much as she does";
> (2) "there's no rush"; and
> (3) "Her scent is provocative, her taste powerful: it all emanates from the same beautiful essence." Since studies show the average woman takes about 20 minutes to reach her first orgasm during a typical sex session, while men take a mere four minutes, Kerner advises men to delay their own climax and make oral sex "coreplay" ("the substantive phase in which sexual tension builds, culminates and then releases itself through the female orgasm"), instead of foreplay. Breaking down six stages of coreplay, from the "first kiss" to orgasm, Kerner speaks to both beginners and more seasoned lovers. His candor concerning his own bout with sexual dysfunction adds a compassionate tone and credibility to this decidedly pro-female methodology.


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## 247769 (May 18, 2016)

You don't, you curb it until you can be together again the right way. 

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I have another question, he refuses to talk about masturbation. He says I have to respect his limits and not talk about it. Is this normal? I feel like I can't open up completely because there are 'secrets' so I never really know what he's thinking. He says Im overthinking things, that he just doesn't like talking about it. I'm sorry, Im a mess.


It is likely he was raised to feel this is a shameful topic, and not only that but I remember when I was in high school it was a topic that kids would enjoy to bully/haze each other about, especially the kids that were ashamed of it. 

I remember being in high school and a group of us were talking about porn stars and some kid comes over and starts preaching to us about sin. OMG we made friends with this kid just to pick on him. We all went to the mall one day and gradually through being a bad influence convinced him to buy a rated "r" film that was essentially soft core porn (nude dancing) that we would keep over at this other friends house. Afterwards we called his mom and told her that her son was a bad influence because he got us to buy a porn tape at the mall and that our moms grounded us (that was a lie). We drove over to his house to give his mom the tape so she could make him return it and get our money back! Then we would hide porn magazines in his car where they could be seen through the window and tell on him to his sister. Kids will be kids, and at least half the school enjoyed hazing this kid. These were just things I saw going on. 

So you just don't know what he went through growing up! 

Regards,
Badsanta


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Stop having sex with him, or "helping him out" in that respect in any way. If he wants to be uninterested in meeting his wife's desires and needs, then he can go without as well. He needs to get over himself, and start doing what's necessary to keep his wife happy, and your relationship healthy. 

You reap what you sow. Give him a taste of his own medicine and I bet you'll get his attention real quick.


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## RobertC341 (May 29, 2016)

wow! Sorry to read this but that seems to be my problem. My wife has made it a holiness issue concerning making love. I have never failed to please her by making certain she has at least on orgasm which only happens by clitoral manipulation, which I am pleased to help with. Yet, she has come to the conclusion that to make love (enjoying and exploring each other's body) is not the way to love Jesus. I am at the point that we have "sex" only when she wants it, so my question is also "how does a man turn off the desire" for a wife he loves for over 25 years?


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

BlueEyedWife said:


> Thanks for all the responses. It feels good to be able to talk about this.
> 
> Im not sure why he feels uncomfortable talking about sex. I don't think he was abused or that he has a lover or uses porn. It would really make me angry if he had a lover and was making me feel like a crazy person for wanting more connection and more sex.
> 
> He's a good guy and i really would like to fix and improve things. I'd love to find a middle ground where we're both comfortable and happy but he always comes back to the idea that i want to change him and that *if i loved and respected him I would accept him for who he is.*


This isn't true. He has problems that are interfering with his relationship with his wife. If he loved and respected you, he would be resolving his issues, and finding ways to better serve you. Not making up excuses, and trying to make it your problem.



> I suggested to read that book and he got very offended because he said it was a selfish thing to want to come first.


Lol, seriously? That is one of those statements that is so stupid, you don't even know what to say in response. He's wrong, and you need to start telling him so.



> I explained that it would take the pressure off him but he didnt' seem to agree with me. I would love for him to read something like that.
> 
> I think he has a block of some kind. Not sure why but i was trying to tell him today that sex should be something good and enjoyable not something taboo. I just dont know how to help him if he doesn't talk to me.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry :/ The core issue is that your husband is selfish. It's his job to meet your needs, and he is shirking that responsibility because he feels like doing so.

You may need to start playing hardball. Don't let him tell you that it's selfish of you to have needs, and expect him to meet them. That's a load of baloney, and you need to tell him so to his face. Don't let him spout crud like that.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Unfortunately, I don't think things will get better, judging by the way he reacts to you. I think most of us here want to tell you to try this or that, that he'll "get it", etc. but I fear he won't, given the picture you're painting of him.

First and foremost - don't blame yourself - however, to take ~20 years to bring this up to him didn't help your cause. This, sadly, is so common in marriages. Such a fear of communication that things are only brought up when they've become a major issue, if at all. My first marriage ended with my ex wife listing off all the problems and issues "we" (she...) had, most of which I was unaware of. Maybe I was blissfully ignorant, but all the same - TALK TO ME. How can one fix something if they're unaware there's a problem? People REALLY need to learn to talk to one another. If they did, many marriages would last, IMO.

What I'm thinking, though, is that this is an ego thing for him. Imagine that he, for 20 years or so, has had no real complaints in the bedroom. For 20 years it's been the same. Then one day you tell him it's just not working for you, and not only that - it never has. His internal reaction must have been: "Wait. What???"

In a round-about way, you've shot yourself in the foot by waiting so long to make this an issue. Should he swallow his pride? Well, yes, but the ego is a fragile thing, and it's likely been shattered into a million pieces.

Now you couple that with his rather skewed viewpoint on sex in general, and you're REALLY in a hole now.

I stress, though, don't take all the blame for this because you didn't communicate with him 20 years ago. Better late than never. He could also have ensured you were being satisfied over this period, as well (though the onus is really on you to communicate with him what works and what doesn't).

But more importantly, his attitude towards all this is juvenile. Maybe his ego was hurt, but he really should have enough pride to rectify that, now that he has an opportunity. Bluntly speaking, he didn't know he was bad in bed, because you never told him. Now he knows, yet chooses to do nothing about it. Emphasis on "chooses".

So now, IMO, you're stuck with this and who's to blame is equal. It's gotten to the point that you've already sought sexual satisfaction outside of the marriage (in an albeit "tame" manner), and now you find yourself here. So that tells us that you don't want to live like this. But he's given every single indication that you're going to have to, and that the status quo will not change.

You only have 3 real options at this point. Live like this, and accept it. Divorce and seek a sexually compatible man. Tell him, point blank, you will NOT go the rest of your life sexually unfulfilled and that things need to change (with both of you...)

The third option, obviously, is the most fair for both of you. But he does need to have the motivation to step up his game. So far, you've given him none. If he continues to think you're not going anywhere, he has no reason to swallow his pride, or get over his hang ups.

And here's the great irony about all of this, as far as he is concerned - this marriage could suddenly take off into the stratosphere if he got over himself and took this opportunity to learn how to satisfy his wife.

But you need to emphasize that you won't continue to be unfulfilled sexually. You won't. But he doesn't see that, or believe it, and he needs to.

Lastly, and I don't mean to call your character into question, as you are currently doing the right thing by seeking solutions, BUT, the situation you're in is absolutely ripe for infidelity. You've already somewhat crossed a line with the sex chat thing. I don't get the impression you're the type to seek something outside of the marriage, however I DO think you might find it hard to say no should an opportunity arise somewhere down the road. All it could take is the right guy to say the right things to you.

After a lifetime of being with the same person (you did say you were each others first, right?) and not being sexually fulfilled, that desire to BE fulfilled will be strong (not that it already isn't). But worse is that you don't feel DESIRED by your husband. Not only does he have no interest in pleasing you, he's not all that interested in sex, nor does he seem to view it as something particularly fun. As you put it, he views it as something "loving". It should be BOTH.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I would not ever be opening my legs to a man who took no interest in my pleasure and attempted to shame me for wanting it in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he thinks sex is all about love and not so much pleasure, how about the next time you to have sex, stop him before he ejaculates and say, "gee hon that was super loving and I hope it was as much of a pleasure to you as it was to me." Then do not let him touch you again! 

I don't usually like passive aggressive game playing like this but sometimes it's the only language that will get through. Aside from that, you two have been in marriage counseling and it obviously did nothing to help.

You wanted to know if there was a way to turn off your desire in order to keep your marriage happy. The answer is no. How can anyone hope to be happy in their marriage when their partner takes no interest in their happiness and then shames them for wanting to be happy.

If you were my BFF, I'd tell you to pack your bags and make plans to leave. Without a serious kick in the nuts your husband will not ever change and even then it's unlikely to stick. Life is far too short to be fvcking around with such a self centered SOB! Life is short, you only get one, no do overs, no warm up, no practice. ONE life. Go live it!


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I want to believe that he isn't selfish, that he has a big block or something that is preventing even to think about the problem, let alone work on it. But the fact that he throws it back at me saying it's my problem and that I'm ruining our marriage because of an orgasm is not very nice.


What Anon Pink said. Quit sleeping with him. Don't give him what he is selfishly denying you. If you do, stop him and get up before he finishes. If he complains, use the lines he's been using on you. Word for flippin word. In no circumstance should you continue pleasing him in bed while he willfully neglects your needs.

I don't know if he has a block, but I don't see how you would find out if he does unless you both went to a counselor. Which he has selfishly refused to cooperate with.

You need to start fighting back. You're letting him trample you, create pathetic excuses, and blame-shift. The blame lies with him, and you need to start being strong. When this crud starts pouring out of his mouth, you need to respectfully, but very firmly state your objections, and label his actions as what they are.

Don't let him succeed in shutting you down with the crud he comes up with. He sounds like a woman avoiding her husband.

"My head hurts"
"I'm tired"
"If you loved me you'd respect my feelings"
"If you cared about our family you wouldn't make a big deal out of this"
"Maybe tomorrow"
"You're being selfish"


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I'm very afraid of falling into an affair. I'm trying very hard to keep myself occupied like getting a job for example. But the truth is that the desire is still there and sometimes i feel like I can't breathe when i think about my life like this from now on. I just don't know how to get to him. Or like you said, he most likely won't ever change his views. Makes me very sad....


Tell him this. Exactly, word for word. If he starts to shift the blame to you by shaming you for wanting the same sexual gratification he gets every god dammed time, hold up your hand. Tell him when he can have sex without ejaculating consistently you'd be happy to discuss the nature of sexual love but until then sex will be a two way street or it won't be happening at all.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

BlueEyedWife said:


> Thanks for responding. I have told him this and he responded that I would be a horrible person for not accepting his shortcomings.


This may seem off-topic, but do you have children?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

BlueEyedWife said:


> Thanks for responding. I have told him this and he responded that I would be a horrible person for not accepting his shortcomings.


And yet he's not accepting your "shortcomings" for needing to feel that your pleasure is as important to him as his pleasure is...to him.

Look, your husband sounds like a giant baby. "Waa waa waa, you're making things too hard for me. I don't like it when it's hard. I just want what I want..waa waaa waa."

Have sex with him, let him get inside and pump a few times. Then push him off, get out of bed and ask him how loved he feels right now.

I did something similar and I felt horrible doing it but dammit I had to get my point across. MY pleasure is every bit as important as yours and if you can't or won't make it a priority I don't see why I should have sex with you at all. I did this after discussing, talking...many times. I haven't had any issues about lack of effort for my pleasure since then.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I didn't see that you two hadn't had sex in 3 months. Wow that is a vital piece of info. It tells me that your husband has some serious hang ups that need professional help.

This won't change without his buy in.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Being unwilling to self-address his own confidence and pride is troubling. When you are aware they are detrimental and not willing to do anything about them is simply lazy.

Becoming aggressive in an attempted tit-for-tat, will be self-defeating and build additional resentment where it hadn't been before, If you are trying to teach a lesson this way you may be disappointed, especially where ego is so entrenched.

He seems insecure and unwilling to be humble, that in his own mind he doesn't have the answers to meet your needs that didn't come from him, well outside of any reasonable comfort zone. Selfish to be sure, in that he only wants efforts that come from him and he is threatened by your ideas, your leading him in this unfamiliar area is a lack of trust on his part. 

Until he trusts you enough to listen to you, he will forever fight you in this area.

Please discard the boyfriend area of your thoughts while married... you will find no return on this investment and it will destroy your beauty of self-value in the end.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Additional thoughts...

The more I read the more this is about trust to me... it is being made into other things but in the end, everything I have read speaks that he is not comfortable having you lead, and this is not the action of a trusting partner when it is a safe and wholesome environment such as the marital relationship of physically safe sexual boundaries.

He doesn't seem to trust your openness of needs, he doesn't seem to trust your guiding (mechanical in his words), he doesn't trust your passion... his reservation has built walls that protect and reinforce his lack of this and until he can learn to open himself to such trust you deserve and needs to be removal that threatening lack of trust, access to him will be denied without realizing the prison he has created for himself.

Bottom line, he has to trust you with open access to his fears, a challenge to be sure, but it can be overcome if he is unselfish and willing.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

BlueEyedWife said:


> Thanks for your words. I do agree that he's creating a sort of prison for himself. And as much as I would like to experience an orgasm for myself, I would also like to share this experience with him. I feel he's missing so much out of life by being closed of like this. I wish I knew how to convince him to open up....


What would convince me is the thought of my wife leaving and found a man that would make it his first priority to get you there.

And keep that image in my head.

You made a critical mistake by not telling him years ago,my guess is you did not want to hurt his feelings. That's on you.

Your husbands childish reaction is on him.

Listen to @Anon Pink

55


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I wish I knew how to convince him to open up....


You may not be able to... therefore your must come to a mindful (conscious) place where sharing that is not possible. That he demeans your needs for that fulfillment you seek with him is troubling as well, you do deserve his willing effort and his heart and mind should be there for you when you need it. 

3 months of not receiving that attention you need is telling if there is no up front physical problem, his fears are overwhelming his reason and he has lost the control he thinks he has and fully out of touch with the intimacy of your relationship.

Unless it is done in an unhealthy way (EA/PA/Chat-engaging in virtual sex with another), you may have to come to terms that your satisfaction is yours to handle alone and do not allow him to belittle you for it. Keep your mind right and free of resentment and anger, take his hand and invite him to share every time, then dismiss yourself to your needs if he refuses. You know what is unhealthy and what is healthy... the chat broke some trust in him too but it would be unfair for him to fail to see his contribution to the problem.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm not sure if he's just lazy or completely stupid about sex...

We know he won't do oral, but is he doing anything to help you attain an orgasm? Fingers, toys, anything?

I'm picturing 3 pump chump who doesn't care or is extremely intimidated. 

Is that accurate?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

BlueEyedWife said:


> But how could I have communicated it better?
> 
> *By doing it 20 years ago. *
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

BlueEyedWife said:


> This is what I'm afraid of, that there is nothing I can do anymore short of living a celibate life. But what he doesn't realize or doesnt want to see is that it will change the whole dynamic of our marriage. Everything will start crumbling because if we can't have a sexual relationship then we become business partners, the business being our family. But there will be resentment and anger.
> 
> This is why I'm trying to turn it all off, to see if I can forget about sex. I need to stop being angry because that is hurting me and affecting my kids.




There are men who come here and talk about how they've given up trying to have a fulfilling sex life with their wives, who they still love very much. They want to know how to turn it off.

Here is the answer: You Don't!

Your sex drive and desire for intimacy, physical and emotional is fundamental to marriage. To even consider this is like saying you'd like your leg amputated because you keep getting bunions.
@Emerging Buddhist is saying the right thing, the long way around. He is not wrong. 

I like to skip the bull sh!t and go straight for the heart of the matter. Your man's sexual issues will never be any different than they are now because learning to let go of inhibitions is only something that can be done by a motivated person who WANTS to let it go. 

If you truly seek a way to learn to live without physical or emotional intimacy, I will step out because I won't participate in helping someone amputate a part of themselves that brings joy and vitality and love and closeness to their lives.

Maybe this is one of those times when an exit affair might be best for you. Once you have sex with someone who desires you, wants you, takes delight in your joy, you will never know why you gave this marriage so long to work out. A kicking sex life makes up for a LOT of other crap in a marriage.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Thanks for your confidence @Anon Pink, I like to give options that will aid a decision, not directives. Many times I am perceived (home, work, and here) as filling in too many of the blanks as choices. When at work, I lead the way I was taught to lead, but put people in their own leadership role every chance I can.

At home, it is shared... I can lead, follow, or get out of the way... this was not my path too many years at a detriment.

Here, I do my best to not tell anyone they must do anything unless their life or emotional state is in serious danger. I respect your directness and perspective, it is good for every poster to have all the options at their feet and control.

I cannot agree with you than an exit affair is a good choice here...that is simply drama as a catalyst that lacks value to the self.

If you cannot live as you are with your family intact, you owe it to yourself and with that respect to let your partner know this is more important than the value they give it, and in time things will be irrevocably broken.

Essentially, if we cannot fix the intimacy in our life, it is worth it to me and my health (spiritual, emotional, physical) to leave you.

All the cards are on the table... some may say this is equally selfish, but in fairness , choices can them be made for both equally.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I don't even know what to say. I cannot imagine being with a man such as your husband. I just couldn't. The mental and emotional damage alone...the frustration...the resentment...the years wasted. My heart breaks for you. To be cut off from one of the most physically and emotionally intense human experiences is a hell I'm not sure I could hack my way through for months, much less years.

My only advice is to leave. He is who he is and he is not interested in changing. By staying, you're depriving yourself and setting an example of what a marriage is/should be that I'm not sure you'd want your kids to follow.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

*not interested in trying oral sex or some things that might help me get there.*

Well ok, then what ARE you willing to try. Make a list.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> That's the issue. He's questioning my character because he says i degrade our lovemaking if I also seek physical pleasure. Shouldn't it be both loving and physically pleasurable???


Your kids are testament to the fact that he is receiving physical pleasure from the act. It is nothing but selfish to deny it to you.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> That is my biggest fear. Making the wrong decision by staying. It makes me so sad to think I'll never experience that which you are describing. I've never received oral sex! Could it be that i have to live my whole life without experiencing that among other things?


That in and of itself just is what it is. Some guys have a real hangup with that, as some women have a hangup about oral. My wife is also my first, and she has never been willing to give me a BJ. Does that mean I will go my life without one? Probably, but as long as everything else is good, thats fine.

In your case however, so much is wrong here. He not only does not satisfy you, he refuses to try, and gets mad at you for missing out on what he experiences every time. I think that would be a deal breaker for me.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

BlueEyedWife said:


> That is my biggest fear. Making the wrong decision by staying. It makes me so sad to think I'll never experience that which you are describing. I've never received oral sex! Could it be that i have to live my whole life without experiencing that among other things?


This is not a suggestion (really!) but what do you think he'd say if you asked him if you could receive oral sex elsewhere, even just once?


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

RobertC341 said:


> wow! Sorry to read this but that seems to be my problem. My wife has made it a holiness issue concerning making love. I have never failed to please her by making certain she has at least on orgasm which only happens by clitoral manipulation, which I am pleased to help with. Yet, she has come to the conclusion that to make love (enjoying and exploring each other's body) is not the way to love Jesus. I am at the point that we have "sex" only when she wants it, so my question is also "how does a man turn off the desire" for a wife he loves for over 25 years?


Have her read "the act of marriage" its a great christian based book about the truth about gods purpose for sex. It really opened my eyes, made me not shameful of things that i used to view as gross or perverted (or un-lady-like). 


OP same advice... have him read this book. Even if he isnt religious it still points out some actual psychology on a happy sex life and specifically how to have a happy sex life. 

I just want to point out that just because he doesnt want to do oral for you doesnt make him a bad guy. He may just be shy about the whole thing. But, i would definitely not give him oral unless he agrees to do you! Make sure you both take a bath first. He may be turned off by odor or what is possibly gross down there. I get that. I often think about how sucky it must be to have to lick a women down there. If i was a man i dont know if i could do it unless we were in the bath or something. I still cant give oral on my husband unless he just showered. I cant help but think about the germs and sweat and pee thats probably down there lol hey its the truth. A lot of people dont mind but I do!...im just pointing out that he may just be turned off by that.

He is right in that, you knew how he was in the beginning of your marriage. Its actually your problem that you changed..its unfair to expect him to change. 

Oh boy... the cheating issue (which it sounds like to me you emotionally cheated.) Of course this is making it worse! Anytime you bring up that he needs to please you (even just by hinting to go down on you or stimulate you) you are forcing him to remember that you arent pleased and then he remembers your little affair. That automatically makes him resentful and not in the mood to help you out. How can he get into it with all those painful feelings in his head. First its painful that his wife doesnt enjoy his sex (in the Act of Marriage it talks about how important it is for a husband to know that his wife likes what he is doing to her) So basically you have hurt him twice over this issue. Once with admitting you arent pleased and again when you went somewhere else to feel good. 

My advice is that you need to give up on this for a really really long time. Meanwhile, please yourself behind closed doors, without him knowing (because i think that will just remind him that you are not pleased). 

During this waiting period, try to make him feel like he is doing a good job, even if he isnt. You need to build his confidence back up. So, find something that you do like, even if it doesnt make you O, and make sure you show him that you love it when he does that. So if you enjoy him kissing your neck, whisper to him " god, i love it when you do that". Then when you finish, even if you dont O, tell him how much you enjoyed it. "Wow, i think that was the best we have ever had!" Or " that was amazing babe" act thoroughly pleased and happy. 

You need to do this for a really long time. Im talking maybe a year or 2. Then revisit trying new things in a loving way when his ego and confidence is back up. If he doesnt like instruction, try guiding his hand during a heated moment to where you want it to go, he may be so into it that he attempts what you are wanting. If he does start to stimulate you the right way, tell him immediately how good it feels when he does it like that. Tell him he only has to do it for as long as he feels comfortable. If he gets to being too fast or rough (or whatever it was you didnt like) just take his hand and move it up to your breast and tell him in a sexy way (not a disappointed way) "dont worry about me baby". As frustrating as it is, you will have to take baby steps to "teach" him without hurting his ego. You can try again next time. You can always please yourself afterwards to relieve the desire. 

I think he is just someone who doesnt like oral honestly. I dont blame him. My husband likes anal, i think it is completely gross (although i allow it when he wants it) but i just do not see how that is sexy at all. But i enjoy his reaction from it, so i do get something out of it, too. I hear that some women enjoy licking the anal region... im sorry but i could never ever do this. So you see, everyone has things they just really dont want to do and probably never will no matter how much their spouse wants it.

It might be a shyness thing. He might feel awkward doing oral. I feel awkward touching myself for my husband. I make him do it. Luckily he never asks for that, im not sure if i could ever do that for him, just because id be shy. My best friends husband loooves for her to masterbate for him. She is the type that doesnt masterbate, never has, so the entire journey of her opening up to him and finally having enough confidence to do that for him was very inspiring to me. He was patient with her, didnt make her feel like sex was horrible unless she did it, and he did a good job of making her comfortable and confident. It actually made me open up to letting my husband do anal, even though i was super embarrassed to do it the first time, and i actually had to be drunk to find the courage (as did my friend for her first time masterbating in front of her husband). Btw... it took me 8 years to agree to do anal. Soo... dont expect change over night. One of the things that made me really want to do it for him was when he would say "its not a big deal baby, i love what we already do, its just something different." 

I dont think it has anything to do with the fact that he isnt interested in pleasing you. I think you have hurt his ego and is feeling self conscious about even trying. I think he may be hiding behind the fact that its "perverted" because he is afraid of the embarrassment when he doesnt do it right, or isnt successful. 

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I think you're very right about the ego thing. Mind you I didn't wake up one day and told him he sucked in bed. It took me a long time to find the courage to say it. I felt ashamed and that it was my fault for not communicating properly. When I did, I asked him to help me, I never told him he was inadequate. I actually enjoyed our lovemaking. I enjoyed pleasuring him and I enjoyed his touches. I just wanted a bit more to get to that elusive O once in a while at least. I also stressed that I wasn't blaming anyone, that I had learnt things about my body throughout the years and that we could learn new ways or tray new things to see if we could make our lovemaking better. I know in the end the message he heard was he never satisfied me. But how could I have communicated it better?
> 
> That's the thing, even if we tried and he could never bring me to orgasm, I'd still be happy with a positive helpful attitude. But I want real trying, because he says he tries but he doesn't want directions (he says it makes it mechanical) and he doesn't read anything on the subject (it takes the spontaneity and loving out of the act). So moving your fingers blindly won't get us anywhere.
> 
> I'm very afraid of falling into an affair. I'm trying very hard to keep myself occupied like getting a job for example. But the truth is that the desire is still there and sometimes i feel like I can't breathe when i think about my life like this from now on. I just don't know how to get to him. Or like you said, he most likely won't ever change his views. Makes me very sad....


You asked how could you have communicated it better...

You could have not communicated it at all. You could have simply suggested to try something new, without saying you were trying to find something that would finally make you o with him. You could have slowly taught him to do exactly what you like without even saying that you never O, or that it could be better. 

But whats done is done... move forward with my other advice to repair his hurt ego. Then try again someday. 

Im giving you advice to save your marriage, unlike most people here. Dont throw away your marriage because of this. I dont believe in divorce in most cases, besides physical or mental abuse. Not because im religious, but just because i believe getting married is sacred and it is very very hard work. You will go through hell and back with this man. This is just one of those things that you will have to go through. Thats okay. Marriage is full of trials. But if you make it through, it will be sooo worth it. If you divorce, and find a sexually compatible man THERE WILL BE OTHER DIFFICULT TRIALS with the new man too. Its best to go through trials with the same man. If you dont, you will never have a "forever" man. If you never get through the hard stuff with any man you will never get the reward of growing old with someone. 

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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

BlueEyedWife said:


> That is my biggest fear. Making the wrong decision by staying. It makes me so sad to think I'll never experience that which you are describing. I've never received oral sex! Could it be that i have to live my whole life without experiencing that among other things?


I don't have the words to convey to you what you're missing. There is just so much, so many possibilities sexually between a husband and wife, so much to feel and to share, to give and to take. 

I would normally say try to reach your H and teach him what he needs to know, but the fact is that he has no interest in learning and it's been many years. If you don't do something, this is it. This is your life.



Renee0414 said:


> You asked how could you have communicated it better...
> 
> You could have not communicated it at all. You could have simply suggested to try something new, without saying you were trying to find something that would finally make you o with him. You could have slowly taught him to do exactly what you like without even saying that you never O, or that it could be better.
> 
> ...


What you're doing isn't so much offering advice as playing on her fears in order to keep her chained to a man who has denied her physical pleasure for something like two decades and who then proceeds to make her feel ashamed and guilty for having normal sexual needs and asking him to meet them.

BTW, I do see abuse in this marriage. It's nothing short of cruelty, physical and emotional, to deny a spouse their basic needs for an extended period of time and then to blame and shame them for having those needs i the first place.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> That is my biggest fear. Making the wrong decision by staying. It makes me so sad to think I'll never experience that which you are describing. I've never received oral sex! Could it be that i have to live my whole life without experiencing that among other things?


It's not about the oral sex. It is the entire devotion to each other and feeling 100% complete in each other's arms. There could always be sexual incompatibilities in a marriage and that doesn't mean it's time to jump or the other person must accept a sexual practice. 

However, he isn't listening. So you need to decide if you are going to live unsatisfied the rest of your life. And you shouldn't. Draw the line. Insist on sexual counseling. If he won't walk with you, then move on.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I don't have the words to convey to you what you're missing. There is just so much, so many possibilities sexually between a husband and wife, so much to feel and to share, to give and to take.
> 
> I would normally say try to reach your H and teach him what he needs to know, but the fact is that he has no interest in learning and it's been many years. If you don't do something, this is it. This is your life.
> 
> ...


 No, im asking her to stick it out and fix what she has ruined. I dont mean that in a rude way, i mean that as a fact. He didnt do anything wrong but have sex the way he thought was working for 20 years. Then she devastated his ego by letting him know that she has never been completely satisfied in the 20 years that he thought she was completely satisfied and then she had an emotional affair... all of his actions are stemming from that hurt. 

He isnt as sexually adventurous as her, and is shy about trying new things that feel "perverted" to him. How do you blame someone for being who they are. 

I have changed sexually over several year, my husband has also changed sexually (into someone who is more a tuned to exactly what i like), my best friend has changed sexually over the years. 

It doesnt just happen over night because you ask for it. Especially when you have made him feel like he doesnt know what he is doing and especially right after an affair or any form of betrayal. You all can continue to tell her that her husband will never change but the fact is, under the right circumstances people do change over time. You just cant expect it over night. 

I am hoping you make it through this with your husband. I am hoping his ego heals and he is able to stop feeling self conscious about trying to please you  

If you dont want to be with your husband than leave. But if you want it to work than try my advice. 

Noone is forcing blueeyes to try anyones advice here. But the man deserves a little time to accept that he doesnt satisfy his wife, heal from the affair, and try again when he is confident enough to do so. 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Sorry i didnt mean to sound like you are a horrible wife in the last post. You are not. I just mean that most of it was your fault in this issue. although he could definitely have responded differently and more mature, but you cant expect someone who feels wounded to be perfect. 

I just feel like it would be silly to through away 20 years (and a good man, as you stated) over a new issue (to him) that needs time to find a solution. 

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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Renee0414 said:


> No, im asking her to stick it out and fix what she has ruined. I dont mean that in a rude way, i mean that as a fact. He didnt do anything wrong but have sex the way he thought was working for 20 years. Then she devastated his ego by letting him know that she has never been completely satisfied in the 20 years that he thought she was completely satisfied and then she had an emotional affair... all of his actions are stemming from that hurt.
> 
> Except she didn't ruin anything. She explained herself in the absolute nicest way possible and he flat out refuses to do anything about the issue but actually shame her for wanting something resembling a normal and satisfying sex life.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say the EA was the cause of his problem. His lack of interest in sexual exploration beyond his own orgasm pre-dates the EA.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I would love to get to that place where i dont feel resentment and anger and desire. I just have no clue how to get there.



The desire is healthy if it does not take over your good judgement, the anger and resentment is not healthy and must be discarded as you well recognize.

I assume once your children are out of the house you will have other options if your husband fails to recognize the impact and toll it has taken.


All I can share are the things I've learned on my path...

Do not turn off that which is healthy, allow your thoughts of desire ... not suppress them, but control them so you can choose when and how you want them to be. 

Use your new openness to your advantage, a reward system per-se, mix exercise and meditation into a habit of working off that which doesn't meet up to your expectations. Work without fail to share your desire to your husband, this is fair to him and you, but do not dwell if rejected... leave the situation with the next focus, building your strength. 

Now is the time to exercise and rid yourself of anger, allow your thoughts to focus on your own body as you strengthen, tone and learn. Do this in as natural environment as you can, outside where possible. Once you have tasked your body to strengthen, pick a quiet place and meditate... strengthen the emotions to rid yourself of resentment. I work a pattern of Loving-Kindness meditation and clear seeing mindfulness, yours should feel natural to you but there are many and you should spend time to develop yours. Through meditation you will strengthen, tone and learn your mind and your emotions (see the connection between physical and spiritual?).

Then in your safe and quiet place, continue to learn that confidence and mastery of one's one body. Some may find this a perverse self-love, but you will soon learn that it all ties together to a satisfaction that when the time comes to share with another, it will be an intense and rewarding experience.

You will stumble as you work toward your goal, everybody does, but each measurement will strengthen as you love the confidence and peace you will find in yourself, and this calm will come.

Then believe as you put your heart into the one reason this peace will be... you will find that every time you look in the mirror.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Renee0414 said:


> I just want to point out that just because he doesnt want to do oral for you doesnt make him a bad guy. He may just be shy about the whole thing. But, i would definitely not give him oral unless he agrees to do you! Make sure you both take a bath first. He may be turned off by odor or what is possibly gross down there. I get that. I often think about how sucky it must be to have to lick a women down there. If i was a man i dont know if i could do it unless we were in the bath or something. I still cant give oral on my husband unless he just showered. I cant help but think about the germs and sweat and pee thats probably down there lol hey its the truth. A lot of people dont mind but I do!...im just pointing out that he may just be turned off by that.
> 
> *THAT doesn't make him a bad guy, but his actions and words most definitely do.
> 
> ...


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I wouldn't say the EA was the cause of his problem. His lack of interest in sexual exploration beyond his own orgasm pre-dates the EA.


Haha why has this turned into a thread of you criticising peoples advice. Like i said before she doesnt have to take my advice or anyones. I havent disagreed with anyones advice. There are several ways to approach a problem. I am giving an option that doesnt end in divorce. 

OP you do what is best for you. I hope everything works out 

I just want to add that their sex has been the exact same for 20 years because of her unwillingness to try different things a long time ago. And finding out you havent been pleasing your wife the entire time the way she wants to be pleased is really painful to hear. So yes, in order to have a responsive husband that isnt on the defence and is willing to listen to her needs she will have to wait a while for him to heal. 

SHE CAN ALWAYS LEAVE HER HUSBAND IF SHE WANTS! My advice is for if she wants to work it out. Geez back the f off... 
...thats your cue to dissect and quote everything i just said 

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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Again... exactly what i said to MJ up there. This isnt about arguing with peoples advice. So back off and let her choose which advice is best for her. I dont disagree with anyones advice. They are all reasonable ways to handle the situation depending on how she personally feels about the situation. I was just giving her advice if her heart is all into this man, and she really wanted to make it work with him.

Ive only been on TAM for a few days and you all seem like awesome people in real life. *sarcasm*. Most of the advice is about divorce everywhere you go on here... its sad really. A place to go to work on marriage yet everyones giving up and divorcing. Good for you guys. I would choose to work on my issues for as many years as it takes. That is my choice. Anytime i give someone advice it is met with someone criticising that advice. What is the point of that. Just give the OP your advice and stop bashing people for theirs. For f sake. 

He didnt ignore her for 20 years. She even quoted above that she actually enjoyed sex the way it was. He thought everything was fine. This is a NEW need for her. So stop saying its been going on for 20 years. 

I gave my advice. Im not going to argue with people over a simple piece of advice. 

OP...good luck girl 

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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I would love to get to that place where i dont feel resentment and anger and desire. I just have no clue how to get there.



Okay so it sounds like you have given up on a fulfilling sex life and wish to find ways to make that decision more palatable.

Good luck with that. If you discover a way, please report back because there was another member here about a year ago who had an almost identical situation to yours, except that she had been faking orgasms for 18 years. 

She came here to gain insight on how to fix her sex life with a husband who had never ever shown any interest in touching her lady parts let alone oral sex, even though the selfish SOB had been getting oral sex from her since their honeymoon. They tried talking it out, they even went to a sex therapist for a while. Her husband maintained his dislike of her lady parts (lady parts in general not specifically hers) except as a receptacle for his penis. She had two choices and only two. Accept her husband as he was or divorce. She accepted him as he was but never found peace with her decision and stopped participating here because it only made her feel worse.
@Emerging Buddhist is right in that your husband is dreadfully insecure and weak. Insecure in the sense that he knows he doesn't please you. Weak in the sense that instead of discovering how to please you, he avoids sex entirely. Emerging Buddhist suggested that your H would only improve when he felt loved and confident enough to risk leaving his comfort zone...or words to that effect.

And I'm here telling you that unless you value being a victim you will never make peace with your marriage. Because your husband will not wake up one day and find a new perspective on what a fulfilling sex life looks like, you will grow more and more despondent and unhappy as time moves on.

As I said, I take the direct path. While my words may seem directive I assure they are not. My words are confidently predictive. I cut to the chase because I see how this is going to play out, I see wasted years ahead, I see you becoming like me, resentful and fighting not to become embittered. I wish for you to avoid that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Renee0414 said:


> Sorry i didnt mean to sound like you are a horrible wife in the last post. You are not. *I just mean that most of it was your fault in this issue. although he could definitely have responded differently and more mature, but you cant expect someone who feels wounded to be perfect. *
> 
> I just feel like it would be silly to through away 20 years (and a good man, as you stated) over a new issue (to him) that needs time to find a solution.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk




How long have you been married?

Define "a good man?"


Here's my definition of a good man, reliable, dependable, fun loving, creative, intelligent, caring, productive, balanced between predictive and impulsive, not afraid of spiders, has a garage full of tools and knows how to use them, is an attentive lover, good with kids, like animals, is assertive, civil, and a gentleman on the streets and a thug in the sheets!


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

She didnt blurt out "your awful in bed"... but he heard it like that. She even admits that she knows thats the way it made him feel. 

I dont know where she said that their entire sex life is all bad. She said that she has actually enjoyed their sex very much she just wants to O. So if she would have stated that she hated all of it and that she has been trying to try new things for 20 years then yeah id say its time to leave. But thats not what the op had said. 

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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> I cannot agree with you than an exit affair is a good choice here...that is simply drama as a catalyst that lacks value to the self.




I agree it's not a good thing. It would be helpful though. Because her husband has never taken delight in her body and only used it as a receptical, she has no idea how mind blowing it is take have sex/make love with someone who does. Her husband in attentiveness has caused her to lack confidence, to question her ability to even inspire a man to passionately take delight in her body. She probably thinks she can't inspire that and by the mere fact that she wants that, she CAN inspire that but only with a man who is capable of passion.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Renee0414 said:


> She didnt blurt out "your awful in bed"... but he heard it like that. She even admits that she knows thats the way it made him feel.
> 
> I dont know where she said that their entire sex life is all bad. She said that she has actually enjoyed their sex very much she just wants to O. So if she would have stated that she hated all of it and that she has been trying to try new things for 20 years then yeah id say its time to leave. But thats not what the op had said.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


Of course that's how he felt. His little make believe world has been destroyed. Somewhere along the line her man decided that the magic of love would make him a good lover and it turns out he was misinformed.

Lots of women enter marriage thinking the emotional bond of intercourse is all they need to feel loved and cherished. But as time goes on, they come to understand that that kind of sex, while not terrible, is not all they originally thought it was. Because years of being unfulfilled during sex makes a woman attempt to minimize her desire for an orgasm. She rationalizes, thinking similar to what you think, that intercourse promotes such a wonderful feeling of togetherness I should learn to be content with that. But, time marches forth and the flimsy rationalizations stop working because being unfulfilled at every encounter make a woman feel used and unimportant.

That why I don't think you've been married for very long.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

OP, I have one suggestion for you...counseling. Your hubs needs to get on board with this so the two of you can find a solution. You were honest with him and while I can understand his initial hurt reaction, I can't fathom his absolutely refusing to explore oral and other techniques that would ensure an orgasm for you.

Are you familiar with Dan Savage? He writes a sex column called "Savage Love" and he's amazing. The ideal sex partner should be (as Dan describes) "Good, Game and Giving"...willing to accommodate the other partner(within reason, of course). It's not like you're asking hubs to do something totally pervy...you are asking for practically the most common sex act in the world.

Write to Dan and make an appt. with a counselor, preferably one who is an expert in sexual problems. Please don't do some of the childish things suggested here. Keep the high ground and try to work on this like an adult.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> I agree it's not a good thing. It would be helpful though. Because her husband has never taken delight in her body and only used it as a receptical, she has no idea how mind blowing it is take have sex/make love with someone who does. Her husband in attentiveness has caused her to lack confidence, to question her ability to even inspire a man to passionately take delight in her body. She probably thinks she can't inspire that and by the mere fact that she wants that, she CAN inspire that but only with a man who is capable of passion.


I believe she does have some idea, otherwise her desires would not be so overwhelming.

You and I both recognize BEW's pain and understand that pain is allowing her to doubt where her value is in such an intimate relationship (lack therein), where she is left feeling her worth amounts to little from her husband's lack of effort and really understanding why he is that way toward her.

BlueEyedWife, if I am incorrect here, I will humbly bow out of your thread from my lack of understanding...

I have experienced a little of how the BEW feels here... what I offered in advice in bringing her peace is exactly the path I take when I find my frustrations such as hers. Over the years, my wife has become more LD for many reasons... the hurt I caused her long ago and has some still that lingers through time, the stresses that come from herself, the changing of life in age. I am an attentive lover and desire return engagement, my wife has said I tend to give emotion too much value in it... I am what I am, but emotional engagement completes the circle for me. She can have sex with me without being too emotionally engaged (the body needs it as we are wired for it), but I struggle when it is absent.

When my desire for more gets in the way of my overall happiness, I need to regain control of it so it is not allowed to begin to give me those self-doubts... am I attractive enough (mentally and physically), why don't I do it for her, why doesn't she like this from me, why doesn't she like to do this with me anymore... yes, men have these feelings too but don't talk about them (except maybe here). We are raised not to, often to a detriment.

I think there are many paths to satisfaction that BEW can follow, but in an affair, you lose a valuable part of your self-respect... the satisfaction may come for a short time but it will be fleeting and superficial, BEW cannot afford to lose any more of her self-worth, self-value, self-love.

Loftiness and reactionary will not work here and in the end, like all of us, she needs a healthy attainable peace.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> Of course that's how he felt. His little make believe world has been destroyed. Somewhere along the line her man decided that the magic of love would make him a good lover and it turns out he was misinformed.
> 
> Lots of women enter marriage thinking the emotional bond of intercourse is all they need to feel loved and cherished. But as time goes on, they come to understand that that kind of sex, while not terrible, is not all they originally thought it was. Because years of being unfulfilled during sex makes a woman attempt to minimize her desire for an orgasm. She rationalizes, thinking similar to what you think, that intercourse promotes such a wonderful feeling of togetherness I should learn to be content with that. But, time marches forth and the flimsy rationalizations stop working because being unfulfilled at every encounter make a woman feel used and unimportant.
> 
> That why I don't think you've been married for very long.


12 years. Very happy emotionally and sexually. She is the one who stated he is a good man. Those were not my observations. I dont even know the man, neither do you. I have plenty of experience in slowly changing things you dont like over time instead of giving up. (I will emphasize again that she hasnt been trying for that long. This is a new desire for her. She admits that the sex is satisfying as is but she would like him to be open to making her O) 

It has been very rewarding to stick it out with my husband, because now i have a man that i know very well that knows me very well. that only comes with plenty of years together and plenty of ups and downs. I would have regretting starting over with a new man. Because he would just have his own issues too that would need to be worked around. I feel like the more trials we overcome the stronger our foundation is and the more we are unbreakable. I feel more "closeness" with him after every trial we overcome. Only she knows if it is worth working through. If it isnt, if she is 100% sure he will never change then she has a right to leave. 

I view it like this. A new relationship is always going to be two puzzle pieces that dont fit perfectly...over time they start to mold into shapes that fit together better. If you give up trying to fit one piece then just remember that the new "puzzle piece" wont fit perfectly either and you will eventually get to a trial that is really difficult to overcome. It may not be a sexual issue but it will still be just as hard. 

Im not saying you shouldnt leave him. I am just saying make sure it is really something that cant be fixed before you give up

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

The reason counseling is so important is to help him see that you feelings have merit and validation.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Renee0414 said:


> I view it like this. A new relationship is always going to be two puzzle pieces that dont fit perfectly...over time they start to mold into shapes that fit together better. If you give up trying to fit one piece then just remember that the new "puzzle piece" wont fit perfectly either and you will eventually get to a trial that is really difficult to overcome. It may not be a sexual issue but it will still be just as hard.
> 
> Im not saying you shouldnt leave him. I am just saying make sure it is really something that cant be fixed before you give up
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


I rather like this view... grounded with mindfulness, not reaction.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

alot of people keep saying he will never change. I dont agree with this. When my husband first started wanting anal i refused, i even kind of shamed him in a way, saying that it was disgusting and i dont understand why he would even want to do that. It took me years to realize it wasnt as gross as i thought, and i had to get over my shyness of being "sexual" too. But when he first asked for it ...damn straight i wouldnt listen, and in a way it did make me feel like my vagina wasnt good enough. He did let me know that it wasnt because sex wasnt already good, he just wanted to try something different. I slowly started to realize it wasnt about it being "bad sex unless we did other things" it was just about exploring new things. (Btw this was my old self. I am very open and sexual now and i deeply regret not being open to these things from the start. Its kind of embarrassing to admit i ever refused him things he wanted. But i thought id give you proof that people do change... 

Some people here were just blessed with being very sexually open and unashamed of it from the get go. Others just need time to discover their sexual ability, and do things without feeling shy, embarrassed or shameful. 

Just because oral is very common doesnt mean every single person on the planet has to like it. But i have faith that as your relationship gets better (if you choose to try to work on it) he might be willing to do it for you at least a couple time. If he really doesnt like it i am sure there are other things he could do for you that will get you there. 

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

I’d like to thank everyone who’s taking the time to read and answer my posts and also those who may read and not have time to answer. I think it’s a very difficult and sensitive situation that I’m in and all your advice has a little truth in it. I have been jotting down the books and names you have advised for me to read and will do so. I’m going to try to respond to all your suggestions, forgive me if I omit someone.

Sscygni, you’re a great person for having accepted so happily to live without that experience. I just want to lose myself in a passionate sex where I feel my partner wants to devour me and can’t get enough of me, just like I feel about him. And to be perfectly honest I want to experience oral sex. 

Alexm, I think that would make things worse and where am I going to find someone to give me oral sex just once. Lol Like you said I feel that partners should be able to voice their problems or dreams at any time, he seems to think that since I didn’t say anything when we got married that I have no right to change things. I wish I had included the O in my wedding vows…. I hate that I have to hide my sexuality. It makes me feel dirty and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what I want but he makes me feel like that. What I’m afraid about giving him time is that he’ll revert to the same routine and behavior and because I don’t say anything, he won’t feel the need to change. This has happened already. It’s a very difficult situation… I think what you said about me taking 20 years to realize he doesn’t care is what scares me most. Makes me doubt every decision I’ve taken. He says I’m ruining everything for an orgasm. Do you think it’s so wrong to want an orgasm? Why do love and physical pleasure have to be mutually exclusive?

Renee0414, I got very upset when I first read your posts, mainly because that is exactly his position. That I should be the one atoning for what I did to him. And it may be true that his ego is wounded but I was also hurt and my ego wounded every time we made love and he had an orgasm and didn’t show any interest in making me have one. My self-esteem was on the floor and I felt unattractive and un-sexy and unloved. But I still tried to make things better, through books and articles and therapists and yes, the wrong EA. So yes, I have made mistakes. He hasn’t made mistakes because he has been completely passive about the whole thing. I understand having hang ups about certain sexual things. I’m not open to everything either. But even you have done things for your husband that you don’t particularly like. He’s refusing to even discuss it. I appreciate the time you took to think about my problem and the advice you gave me. I would love to save my marriage but it’s very difficult when you can’t communicate with your partner. Very difficult. And I know that with time comes a lot of knowing and understanding but again when you’re rigid and refuse to change, it’s very hard. And my question is, he doesn’t like that I’ve changed and want new things, does that mean he doesn’t like me physically anymore because my body has changed and is not the same it was 20 years ago? I’m glad you got to open up about your sexuality but how long do I have to wait for him to open up? I’ll be so old I won’t remember what I wanted in the first place. And you mention that you refused at first but never refused to talk about it. Communication is a bit part of our problem and that’s why I have a hard time seeing things change.

MJJEAN, I know a little of what I’m missing because of the chatting and what I’ve read. But I sometimes feel like I’ve never had real sex. I know it sounds awful and it’s not meant to criticize or hurt my husband. I think he hasn’t had real sex either. There's so much to explore and I'm kinda mad that he doesn’t want to explore it with me. That’s where the abuse I think comes in, in negating my new needs or in crushing my dreams because they don’t align perfectly with his. That is not nice when I have helped him fulfill his dreams. It’s not that it’s such a horrible thing I’m asking. He will enjoy it too, I would hope!

Tortdog, we have been to therapy but he doesn’t believe in it, so his heart wasn’t into it. He still maintains that I’m the one in the wrong and I should accept what he’s offering and forget about my wants. I agree it’s not about oral sex and not even the orgasm really. It’s the connection, the feeling like one. But if I’m perfectly honest I do want a good sex life. 

Emerging Buddhist, thanks so much for all your words. I really would like to get to that state of mind and I’m going to explore meditation to do so. I especially want to stop being angry because that is not helping me or the situation at all. I do know a bit of what I’m missing and I applaud you for the control you have over your emotions. I really need to work on that. I completely agree about the affair route leaving me and other people hurt in the end

Anon Pink, I agree that he won’t wake up one day and decide to please me. And I know that things are most probably not going to change. But I think deep down I’m still holding some hope. I just can’t believe that this man I’ve been with for more than 20 years will just refuse like that. And if he has some issue that is affecting us, why not fight to fix it? I like your definition of a good man, probably that is a great man. Mine is a good man in the sense that he’s not willingly trying to hurt someone, but he’s missing a lot of the attributes you described. Oh how I would love him to be a thug in the sheets! He has caused me to lack confidence but instead of getting mad and not dealing with it like he’s doing, I’m still trying to find ways to make things work. But damn. I want that mind blowing sex that you mention. I can’t get that thought out of my head and it’s killing me. 

Introvert, I’ve tried the counseling route but he doesn’t believe in it so it didn’t quite have the results I had anticipated. Maybe I should look for a sex counselor…. I’ll look into the Savage Love column, sounds very interesting. 

Sorry, this is more like an essay than a post. I apologize for the length. I just don’t know what I’m going to do. I feel like crying most of the time and I hate feeling so lost and hopeless. I’ve been the engine of most things in our marriage since the beginning and I would love for him to step in and help for once. Again thanks so much for everyone’s words.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> There are men who come here and talk about how they've given up trying to have a fulfilling sex life with their wives, who they still love very much. They want to know how to turn it off.
> 
> Here is the answer: You Don't!
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::iagree::smthumbup:


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Renee0414 said:


> Again... exactly what i said to MJ up there. This isnt about arguing with peoples advice. So back off and let her choose which advice is best for her. I dont disagree with anyones advice. They are all reasonable ways to handle the situation depending on how she personally feels about the situation. I was just giving her advice if her heart is all into this man, and she really wanted to make it work with him.
> 
> Ive only been on TAM for a few days and you all seem like awesome people in real life. *sarcasm*. Most of the advice is about divorce everywhere you go on here... its sad really. A place to go to work on marriage yet everyones giving up and divorcing. Good for you guys. I would choose to work on my issues for as many years as it takes. That is my choice. Anytime i give someone advice it is met with someone criticising that advice. What is the point of that. Just give the OP your advice and stop bashing people for theirs. For f sake.
> 
> ...


I didn't disagree with your advice to try and fix it - I disagreed with your method. Giving him another couple of years will probably just reinforce his viewpoint and shoot her in the foot while she's at it.

I also think you're completely missing the REAL issue here. It's not about "bad" sex, or that he's a lousy lover. Lots of people are, and it IS fixable if you communicate and have patience.

It's his attitude and shaming of his wife for having desires deeper than just getting penetrated every so often. Even worse, it's his insistence that she should enjoy what he gives her when it comes to sex. That it's about "love" only, and it's not his problem if she doesn't orgasm.

He'd be singing a different tune if he was the one who didn't orgasm and needed more from his wife to do so.

Basically, it's about his being an a-hole about this.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Renee0414 said:


> Just because oral is very common doesnt mean every single person on the planet has to like it. But i have faith that as your relationship gets better (if you choose to try to work on it) he might be willing to do it for you at least a couple time. If he really doesnt like it i am sure there are other things he could do for you that will get you there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


Here's the thing - it's not just about oral. It's about his complete and utter unwillingness to please his wife during sex.

Yes, OP wants oral sex - she's never had it. I think like most people, she only wants her husband to make an effort. If he does so, and comes to find he just can't stand doing it, well.. he made the effort. I imagine your husband would have felt the same way about anal sex - at least you gave it a try.

Difference being, of course, is that anal sex is not a requirement for one's orgasm. OP does not have orgasms, period. SOLELY because her husband does not care, nor even thinks it should be a requirement in their sex life. He doesn't even stimulate her manually. Perhaps OP can enlighten us to what their sex typically is, as she's said it's been the exact same for 20 years, to the minute. An actual description of what it entails might help us.

So forget the oral sex thing - it happens. Plenty of women don't/won't perform oral sex, either. But you bet your behind that 99% of them have tried it at some point, especially with their husbands. And we men don't REQUIRE oral or manual stimulation to reach orgasm. 70% of women DO. Her husband doesn't do either, and doesn't seem to think he should. Ugh.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

BlueEyedWife said:


> Alexm, I think that would make things worse and where am I going to find someone to give me oral sex just once. Lol


I really wasn't suggesting you do this, or even ask him! I meant more of 'what do you think he'd say?' if that was presented to him.

Besides, it's a trap question any way. There's no answer he could give that would make you feel good. He says yes, go for it - then he doesn't really care about the marriage, or you. He says no way in hell, but still doesn't do it for you - that's rather hypocritical.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

alexm said:


> Here's the thing - it's not just about oral. It's about his complete and utter unwillingness to please his wife during sex.
> 
> Yes, OP wants oral sex - she's never had it. I think like most people, she only wants her husband to make an effort. If he does so, and comes to find he just can't stand doing it, well.. he made the effort. I imagine your husband would have felt the same way about anal sex - at least you gave it a try.
> 
> ...


I think you're right about the complicated way we women are to get to orgasm. I'm not doing it on purpose. I just want a little help from him. And since it hasn't happened with our regular techniques, I'd like to try something new. Like you said, if he tries it and doesn't like it, it would be fine. 

Our love making generally goes like this: 99% of the time it happens in the morning because he's always 'tired' at night ( i love sex at any time but especially at night), he spoons me from behind, he massages my boob and grinds against me. I turn around and we kiss while I touch him. He sometimes touches me for about 1 minute, sometimes he doesn't and directly goes to missionary position. Sometimes he orgasms like that or sometimes he asks me to go on top of him and he orgasms like that. When he's done, it's over. He holds me for a while, then he goes clean up. It usually lasts 20 minutes from the moment he spoons me to the end. It's not that it isn't loving. But the foreplay is way too short for me and he tries to last long while inside me so he stops many times to not orgasm which makes me lose any momentum I might have. 

I know I sound like a whiny person for whom nothing is enough. I commend his efforts but I wish he would listen to me and try some of the things that do work for me. Like making any sound during our sessions (it's usually completely silent apart from my sounds) or telling me what he likes about my body, what it feels like, what he'd like to do next. (like i tell him and he seems to like unless i get too 'pervy'). I think what arouses me most is feeling that my partner is into me and wants me desperately and can't get his hands off of me. I definitely don't feel that from him. Yes it's loving but not arousing. Does it make sense? Is it possible to be both?


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> Sorry, this is more like an essay than a post. I apologize for the length. I just don’t know what I’m going to do. I feel like crying most of the time and I hate feeling so lost and hopeless. I’ve been the engine of most things in our marriage since the beginning and I would love for him to step in and help for once. Again thanks so much for everyone’s words.


What a wonderful and thoughtful response to the many people who have reached out to try and help. 

My last piece of advice is to keep coming back here and talk. It helps. And with time I think you will find things changing for the better. I wish that I had found this place long ago.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

BlueEyedWife said:


> Our love making generally goes like this: 99% of the time it happens in the morning because he's always 'tired' at night ( i love sex at any time but especially at night), he spoons me from behind, he massages my boob and grinds against me. I turn around and we kiss while I touch him. He sometimes touches me for about 1 minute, sometimes he doesn't and directly goes to missionary position. Sometimes he orgasms like that or sometimes he asks me to go on top of him and he orgasms like that. When he's done, it's over. He holds me for a while, then he goes clean up. It usually lasts 20 minutes from the moment he spoons me to the end. It's not that it isn't loving. But the foreplay is way too short for me and he tries to last long while inside me so he stops many times to not orgasm which makes me lose any momentum I might have.


After reading that, I am close to begging you to end this marriage and find a man that is capable of passion and enjoys pleasing his partner.

I've gotten more passionate and attentive sex from random ONS bar hook-ups that you're getting from your husband.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> After reading that, I am close to begging you to end this marriage and find a man that is capable of passion and enjoys pleasing his partner.
> 
> I've gotten more passionate and attentive sex from random ONS bar hook-ups that you're getting from your husband.


Seeing as ONS are only about sex without the laundry, kids, in laws, etc., I would HOPE that sex got its due of the day.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I know I sound like a whiny person for whom nothing is enough. I commend his efforts but I wish he would listen to me and try some of the things that do work for me. Like making any sound during our sessions (it's usually completely silent apart from my sounds) or telling me what he likes about my body, what it feels like, what he'd like to do next. (like i tell him and he seems to like unless i get too 'pervy'). I think what arouses me most is feeling that my partner is into me and wants me desperately and can't get his hands off of me. I definitely don't feel that from him. Yes it's loving but not arousing. Does it make sense? Is it possible to be both?


You are so far from whiny it's sad. What the hell happened to you growing up that makes you think wanting basic decent sex from your husband makes you whiny? Seriously, what happened? How do you come to think what your husband is doing is loving? You're a receptical. He uses your body to get erect, he enters and it's over. That ain't loving in anyone's book!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My read is that he's afraid of his own sexuality.

Was he ever shamed for it by a parent? Was he taught that sex is bad by an authority figure?


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Tortdog said:


> What a wonderful and thoughtful response to the many people who have reached out to try and help.
> 
> My last piece of advice is to keep coming back here and talk. It helps. And with time I think you will find things changing for the better. I wish that I had found this place long ago.


I will do that. Thanks for the nice welcome


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> You are so far from whiny it's sad. What the hell happened to you growing up that makes you think wanting basic decent sex from your husband makes you whiny? Seriously, what happened? How do you come to think what your husband is doing is loving? You're a receptical. He uses your body to get erect, he enters and it's over. That ain't loving in anyone's book!


I guess my self-esteem is still low.... He's always telling me that I don't appreciate his efforts and that I'm always whining about sex. After so many years, I guess I've conditioned myself to think like that. Makes me sad. I used to be such a strong happy passionate person. He has almost killed all of that and I'm fighting but it's not easy. I wish I could show him your response although he would say I'm taking advice from regular people to which I always respond, at least it's people who have more experience than him and I together! Thanks for answering.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

marduk said:


> My read is that he's afraid of his own sexuality.
> 
> Was he ever shamed for it by a parent? Was he taught that sex is bad by an authority figure?


I agree with you. Something is wrong that prevents him from opening up and enjoying healthy sex. I just can't figure out what!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I agree with you. Something is wrong that prevents him from opening up and enjoying healthy sex. I just can't figure out what!


Ask him what sex means to him. Ask him about his first experiences -- first erection, attraction to girls, first sexual encounters, first kiss, first encounter with porn, all that.

I think there may be something in that.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

marduk said:


> Ask him what sex means to him. Ask him about his first experiences -- first erection, attraction to girls, first sexual encounters, first kiss, first encounter with porn, all that.
> 
> I think there may be something in that.


I never asked specifically about that but I asked about masturbation the other day and he got so offended saying i don't respect his limits and that if he doesn't want to talk about it that I should respect him. I told him, how can we have a healthy sex life if we can't talk about these things. Am I wrong? Or should I respect his unwillingness to talk about this?


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I guess my self-esteem is still low.... He's always telling me that I don't appreciate his efforts and that I'm always whining about sex. After so many years, I guess I've conditioned myself to think like that. Makes me sad. I used to be such a strong happy passionate person. He has almost killed all of that and I'm fighting but it's not easy. I wish I could show him your response although he would say I'm taking advice from regular people to which I always respond, at least it's people who have more experience than him and I together! Thanks for answering.


O.M.G. You are NOT being whiny! I am recently divorced, but up until that time, I was having mind-blowing sex with my ex....you are not asking for the world, BEW, you are only asking for reasonable efforts from your hubs.

His behavior seems controlling to me...rather than make an effort to go to counseling (how convenient to say he doesn't believe in it) or actually attempt to do something that would make you feel so good, he shames you for wanting more than just the "love" he's feeling for you.

He's the one with issues, not you. Please keep coming here, if for no other reason than to know that your needs are perfectly rational. He's gaslighting you.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

introvert said:


> O.M.G. You are NOT being whiny! I am recently divorced, but up until that time, I was having mind-blowing sex with my ex....you are not asking for the world, BEW, you are only asking for reasonable efforts from your hubs.
> 
> His behavior seems controlling to me...rather than make an effort to go to counseling (how convenient to say he doesn't believe in it) or actually attempt to do something that would make you feel so good, he shames you for wanting more than just the "love" he's feeling for you.
> 
> He's the one with issues, not you. Please keep coming here, if for no other reason than to know that your needs are perfectly rational. He's gaslighting you.


Thank you. It does make me feel better to hear so many people telling me I'm not crazy or 'just a horny teenager' as he has told me I am (as a criticism of course).


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I never asked specifically about that but I asked about masturbation the other day and he got so offended saying i don't respect his limits and that if he doesn't want to talk about it that I should respect him. I told him, how can we have a healthy sex life if we can't talk about these things. Am I wrong? Or should I respect his unwillingness to talk about this?


Insist.

"Husband, our sex life is unfulfilling and I need it to be better. I need for a husband and wife to be able to talk about anything, even if it's embarrassing. Especially if it's impacting the marriage. What made you have so many limits when it comes to sex?"


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I think you're right about the complicated way we women are to get to orgasm. I'm not doing it on purpose. I just want a little help from him. And since it hasn't happened with our regular techniques, I'd like to try something new. Like you said, if he tries it and doesn't like it, it would be fine.
> 
> Our love making generally goes like this: 99% of the time it happens in the morning because he's always 'tired' at night ( i love sex at any time but especially at night), he spoons me from behind, he massages my boob and grinds against me. I turn around and we kiss while I touch him. He sometimes touches me for about 1 minute, sometimes he doesn't and directly goes to missionary position. Sometimes he orgasms like that or sometimes he asks me to go on top of him and he orgasms like that. When he's done, it's over. He holds me for a while, then he goes clean up. It usually lasts 20 minutes from the moment he spoons me to the end. It's not that it isn't loving. But the foreplay is way too short for me and he tries to last long while inside me so he stops many times to not orgasm which makes me lose any momentum I might have.
> 
> I know I sound like a whiny person for whom nothing is enough. I commend his efforts but I wish he would listen to me and try some of the things that do work for me. Like making any sound during our sessions (it's usually completely silent apart from my sounds) or telling me what he likes about my body, what it feels like, what he'd like to do next. (like i tell him and he seems to like unless i get too 'pervy'). I think what arouses me most is feeling that my partner is into me and wants me desperately and can't get his hands off of me. I definitely don't feel that from him. Yes it's loving but not arousing. Does it make sense? Is it possible to be both?


Add me to the list of people who don't think you're whiny or asking for too much.

And add me to the list of people who think your husband is using you in the bedroom (whether he realizes it or not). Frankly, he's rather abusive when it comes to this, IMO. Refusing to talk about it. Insisting you accept it (and him) as it is. Telling you he's making an effort and you should appreciate it. Not believing in counselling. Getting upset at you when you bring the topic up. Hell, even having sex 99% of the time when HE wants it, not when YOU want it. And 100% of the time HOW he wants it.

It's all mental and emotional abuse. And the words you're using here (you appreciate his effort. he's a good man. you think you're being whiny. etc etc etc) is showing that it's working. At least you're cognizant of your lack of self esteem - that's a good thing. But it's him that's done that to you.

The topic at hand almost doesn't matter - it's how he's handling such a basic, BASIC facet of marriage that's concerning. Communication. And worse, he's striving to maintain the status quo, which is how he likes it. It's controlling behaviour, made worse by the fact that he's turning it all around on you. You're a "horny teenager", you're not "respecting his boundaries", blah blah, frickin' blah.

You tell him, lovingly, that you require something more, something different. He responds by telling you otherwise, that you're wrong, and that you should appreciate how he does it. So he continues to do everything the same way it's always been, knowing full well it's not doing much of anything for you. This says one thing, and one thing only: "I don't give a crap about what you think, and in fact your feelings on the matter are wrong, and furthermore, you should appreciate how I do this, so shut up and enjoy it, because this is how it's going to be." And somehow he's convinced you to be appreciative of his "effort" and that he's a "good guy".

If he had a habit of leaving his dirty socks on the floor of the living room, and you finally told him "hey, could you please put those in the laundry basket?" and his response was anger, blaming you for not telling him 20 years ago about this, and then continuing to leave his socks lying around, how would you feel?



BlueEyedWife said:


> I guess my self-esteem is still low.... He's always telling me that I don't appreciate his efforts and that I'm always whining about sex. After so many years, I guess I've conditioned myself to think like that. Makes me sad. I used to be such a strong happy passionate person. He has almost killed all of that and I'm fighting but it's not easy. I wish I could show him your response although he would say I'm taking advice from regular people to which I always respond, at least it's people who have more experience than him and I together! Thanks for answering.


YOU haven't conditioned yourself. HE'S conditioned you.

The interesting thing about this is that if you had had experience before him, especially with someone who revved your engine, I don't think you'd be here - or there with him. You likely wouldn't have even married him in the first place, and probably wouldn't have gotten past a few months of dating. After a few months of "connect the dots" sex, you'd have spoken up. And if he'd responded the way he has to you now, you'd tell him where to stick it, and that'd be that. I bet you many women can tell you stories of guys they've dated prior to marriage that sound similar to that. Hell, my wife can. She didn't break up with guys specifically for that reason (that I know of!) but she's had similar experiences with guys that don't know what they're doing nor CARE to make an effort.

It's not the sex alone that's missing, or the orgasms - it's having somebody to desire you, and desire to please you. Someone to listen to you, communicate with you, take you seriously, and strive to make you the happiest you can be.

It's taken you this long, but now you know exactly what you have, don't you?


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

marduk said:


> Insist.
> 
> "Husband, our sex life is unfulfilling and I need it to be better. I need for a husband and wife to be able to talk about anything, even if it's embarrassing. Especially if it's impacting the marriage. What made you have so many limits when it comes to sex?"


The problem is that of course he's tired of me bringing the subject up. He believes we should act lovey dovey and things will fall into place. But I can't sweep stuff under the rug. When there's a problem I need to address it and find a way to make it better. He always shuts me down. Not sure how to address this...


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

alexm said:


> Add me to the list of people who don't think you're whiny or asking for too much.
> 
> And add me to the list of people who think your husband is using you in the bedroom (whether he realizes it or not). Frankly, he's rather abusive when it comes to this, IMO. Refusing to talk about it. Insisting you accept it (and him) as it is. Telling you he's making an effort and you should appreciate it. Not believing in counselling. Getting upset at you when you bring the topic up. Hell, even having sex 99% of the time when HE wants it, not when YOU want it. And 100% of the time HOW he wants it.
> 
> ...


The thing is he doesn't view the matter nearly close to this. He believes I'm the one in the wrong, 'destroying our family for an orgasm' (his words) but like you said it's a lot more than the sex and orgasm. It is exactly what you said. I couldn't have put it better. I just don't know how to make him see that. 

what scares me and makes me sad is that I feel happier when he's not around because i feel I can be myself. Shouldn't it be the other way around? That your partner should make you feel the happiest and secure and all that? It has taken me a long time to figure it out and honestly part of me still can't believe it. the question is how do I navigate this for at least a decade more till the kids are out of the house..... It's going to be tough...


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> You are so far from whiny it's sad. What the hell happened to you growing up that makes you think wanting basic decent sex from your husband makes you whiny? Seriously, what happened? How do you come to think what your husband is doing is loving? You're a receptical. He uses your body to get erect, he enters and it's over. That ain't loving in anyone's book!


OP AP is exactly right............ Loving ?

Not even close

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I never asked specifically about that but I asked about masturbation the other day and he got so offended saying i don't respect his limits and that if he doesn't want to talk about it that I should respect him. I told him, how can we have a healthy sex life if we can't talk about these things. Am I wrong? Or should I respect his unwillingness to talk about this?


Sure you should respect his unwillingness

Just as he should respect your unwillingness to remain Status Quo

55


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

BEW, perhaps you could borrow alexm's words to convey your feelings to your hubs? About needing to feel desired and that your needs matter? Barring that, I urge you to visit a sex/marriage counselor on your own for some clarity and reassurance that you are not being selfish, etc. The counselor would probably have some tips on less threatening ways to approach your hubs.

As alex pointed out, this is such a BASIC thing...most people in a loving relationship are able to reveal their innermost needs to each other without fear of judgment or retribution. Most people WANT to make their partner swoon in bed! And as I pointed out earlier, this is so basic on the kink scale- I mean, it's not kinky at all! 

In the meantime, buy as many toys as your heart desires and take care of your needs...it's not the same as being with a loving partner, but it will take the edge off a bit. 

I wouldn't give up yet...see a counselor and keep working on hubs.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> The question is how do I navigate this for at least a decade more till the kids are out of the house..... It's going to be tough...


You don't have to. D is always an option, even with young kids. It is far from ideal, but the old sayings have merit --

When your kids get older they will know that you are not happy in your marriage. They won't know why, and it may not even be at the conscious level, but they will know. Is that the "norm" you want to project to them about married life? 

IMO he needs to own up to his side of the problem and agree to work with you to make things better (with or without professional help), or you need to move on and find somebody who will cherish you for who you are.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

introvert said:


> BEW, perhaps you could borrow alexm's words to convey your feelings to your hubs? About needing to feel desired and that your needs matter? Barring that, I urge you to visit a sex/marriage counselor on your own for some clarity and reassurance that you are not being selfish, etc. The counselor would probably have some tips on less threatening ways to approach your hubs.
> 
> As alex pointed out, this is such a BASIC thing...most people in a loving relationship are able to reveal their innermost needs to each other without fear of judgment or retribution. Most people WANT to make their partner swoon in bed! And as I pointed out earlier, this is so basic on the kink scale- I mean, it's not kinky at all!
> 
> ...


I'll try again but since communication is a major issue you can imagine how our conversations end up.....


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

sscygni said:


> You don't have to. D is always an option, even with young kids. It is far from ideal, but the old sayings have merit --
> 
> When your kids get older they will know that you are not happy in your marriage. They won't know why, and it may not even be at the conscious level, but they will know. Is that the "norm" you want to project to them about married life?
> 
> IMO he needs to own up to his side of the problem and agree to work with you to make things better (with or without professional help), or you need to move on and find somebody who will cherish you for who you are.


D is a big step with a lot of implications as you know. It's overwhelming to think about.

I agree he needs to own up to his part of the problem but he won't so Im not sure what to do. I think I'll go to a therapist again even if it is only by myself.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

Yeah i totally didnt mean to word it so boldly that you ruined it. I got caught up with arguing with other people. I simply meant that you ruined any chance of changing him right now. When it comes to hurting the ego, there is no way to undo that damage. 

I think you are doing a great job. I wouldn't blame you for leaving. I am sure it is very hard to deal with someone who wont listen. I have a very stubborn husband, so i know what it is like to not be able to say anything to get through to him. 

Just make sure it is really over. No chance of changing. Because it is going to be just as hard with someone else someday, it will just be a different issue.
I agree that anal isnt necessary for orgasm, but i wasnt comparing it to be something similar, but just as an example of how slow an issue can take to change. And no i did not even discuss it with him about the anal. I would get very upset every time he brought it up, and then wouldnt be interested in sex because i would be thinking about how he just wants to stick it in my ass! I would tell him i didnt understand why he would want that. Sometimes i would even cry feeling like what we were already doing wasnt good enough. He would hold me and tell me it was okay and that it wasnt that big of a deal. He eventually dropped it for awhile. I imagine he thought it wasnt right that he was asking me for something i really didnt want to do. Anyway, i slowly started to be more adventurous with other things. I started feeling like a badass in bed and pretty confident about how well i could please him. Then one night i was drunk (this was after hearing about my best friends recent triumph in bed) so i was feeling a bit naughty i guess from the booze and i told him to do it. 

I will never forget how surprised and excited he was. Afterwards he let me know how amazing i was, which naturally made me feel really good about myself, even though i didnt enjoy anal at all. 

This took years of me slowly opening up and being "sexual", instead of just "having sex". Anal was the LAST thing we visited. 

But i totally understand the frustration of not having an orgasm with your husband. I dont know what that feels like. I actually didnt orgasm with him for our first few years but that was because i really didnt know you were supposed to. And although he did things to me, we never kept doing it until i would O.

I also wanted to add one more piece of advice..i want to suggest a certain position that always works for me very quickly ( maybe 2 mins) that i think he may agree to because its not that *pervy*. So when your in doggie style have him sit back on his heels, but you are still hands and knees. Then ask him to stop pumping and let you pump, you take control while he reaches around you and rubs your clit gently (or uses a vibrator). So basically you have control of pumping just like if you were on top facing him. So as you go in and out pay attention to how big he feels inside you and how it feels to feel it slide in and out. I like to do it agonizingly slow at first (while he rubs slowly) because i feel like the slower i go the better i can actual *feel* him inside me...then as you build up start to do it faster. As long as he isnt hurting you by rubbing to rough (use some coconut oil), you should O pretty quick like this. It sounds like he likes to rub your breasts so you could have him reach around and rub your breast with his other hand. Since you are doing all the work pumping and he is kneeling back on his knees he can do anything he wants with his hands. If he likes to grab ahold of your hair he can do so at the same time he rubs you, too. 
So, before you end things, try this. He shouldn't have to rub you for long to get you there.

If he wont do this and you dont have the patience to wait it out, then leave and find your happiness. Noone is going to blame you  except maybe him... 

Who knows maybe leaving him will make him want to make you O to get you back 

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> D is a big step with a lot of implications as you know. It's overwhelming to think about.
> 
> I agree he needs to own up to his part of the problem but he won't so Im not sure what to do. I think I'll go to a therapist again even if it is only by myself.


It sucks to think about, but at some point if he knows that you are not willing to leave the marriage over this, what motivation does he have to care? He has already demonstrated that he doesn't care about your feelings or happiness.

I really wish you well; this is a terrible situation for anybody to be in.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> D is a big step with a lot of implications as you know. It's overwhelming to think about.
> 
> I agree he needs to own up to his part of the problem but he won't so Im not sure what to do. I think I'll go to a therapist again even if it is only by myself.


I think it would be great for you to visit a counselor. Even if it's by yourself, I think it would be extremely helpful for you.

Also, I do hear you about the lack of communication where hubs is concerned. You've tried to communicate and have received only criticism in return, which doesn't help at all.

How old are your kids?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

There was a woman poster here about two years ago who's husband told her that masturbating was akin to cheating and told her he didn't want her masturbating. Well, he discovered she was still masturbating and he told her he wanted a divorce.

That thread was unbelievable. In the end, she agreed to the divorce but did not agree to keep silent about why her husband wanted a divorce. She planned to let her friends and close family know exactly what kind of nut case he was. He was extremely upset about that. Why? Because he knew he was not going to have anyone on his side.

BEW, that's what you need to keep in mind. Your husband is bullying you and @alexm is right, he is emotionally abusive. He won't find one single person and especially not a man who thinks you're crazy. Anyone who knows what you're going through thinks your husband is the nut job.

Someone gave you a dire warning about having the same problems with the next man. While I can't personally attest to what it's like dating as a mature woman, I do know that I would never get serious with a man who sucked at sex.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Renee0414 said:


> Yeah i totally didnt mean to word it so boldly that you ruined it. I got caught up with arguing with other people. I simply meant that you ruined any chance of changing him right now. When it comes to hurting the ego, there is no way to undo that damage.
> 
> I think you are doing a great job. I wouldn't blame you for leaving. I am sure it is very hard to deal with someone who wont listen. I have a very stubborn husband, so i know what it is like to not be able to say anything to get through to him.
> 
> Just make sure it is really over. No chance of changing. Because it is going to be just as hard with someone else someday, it will just be a different issue.


Thanks for the advice. If we ever have sex again I'll try to make that position happen. Not sure how it will work since he's so passive but I'll try.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

sscygni said:


> It sucks to think about, but at some point if he knows that you are not willing to leave the marriage over this, what motivation does he have to care? He has already demonstrated that he doesn't care about your feelings or happiness.
> 
> I really wish you well; this is a terrible situation for anybody to be in.


I wish his motivation was that he loved me and wants to make me happy helping my dreams come true. I know I sound straight out of a fairy tale, something he also criticizes about me. 

Thanks for the well wishes.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

introvert said:


> I think it would be great for you to visit a counselor. Even if it's by yourself, I think it would be extremely helpful for you.
> 
> Also, I do hear you about the lack of communication where hubs is concerned. You've tried to communicate and have received only criticism in return, which doesn't help at all.
> 
> How old are your kids?


kids are 11 and 16. Still a while under our roof. I don't want to make things complicated for them but like someone mentioned i don't want them to think this is what a marriage is supposed to be like. I truly hope I can instill in them to be self confident because I think that is a key to not ending up in situations like this.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> There was a woman poster here about two years ago who's husband told her that masturbating was akin to cheating and told her he didn't want her masturbating. Well, he discovered she was still masturbating and he told her he wanted a divorce.
> 
> That thread was unbelievable. In the end, she agreed to the divorce but did not agree to keep silent about why her husband wanted a divorce. She planned to let her friends and close family know exactly what kind of nut case he was. He was extremely upset about that. Why? Because he knew he was not going to have anyone on his side.
> 
> ...


That's what I keep telling him. Find me an article, a book, or someone who shares your point of you. Of course he hasn't come up with anything so far. Once when we were arguing and I mention D he threatened to expose my online chatting and the reason why we would D (the orgasm and so on). I told him I don't care, actually I would like for you to talk to someone about this and hear what they have to say. 

I think if I ever end up with another man, it will be very different because I know what I am worth and what to look for. What I really want is to teach my kids all this so they never find themselves in a similar situation. 

Thanks for your words. I really appreciate them.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

But for the fact that you said he did not come from a strong religious background, he sounds like he came from a strong religious background...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

BlueEyedWife said:


> what scares me and makes me sad is that I feel happier when he's not around because i feel I can be myself. Shouldn't it be the other way around? That your partner should make you feel the happiest and secure and all that? It has taken me a long time to figure it out and honestly part of me still can't believe it. the question is how do I navigate this for at least a decade more till the kids are out of the house..... It's going to be tough...


You don't have to. Let me be the first to tell you: divorce isn't any easier if you postpone it. Divorce isn't easier on your kids if they're 22, 30 or 45, or simply out of the house. And the longer you wait, the less time you have to enjoy life - something you're not doing a whole lot of right now.

I generally don't advocate divorce here, unless there's been infidelity or abuse.

In your case, there IS abuse, even if you may not quite feel like it is and/or he isn't even aware of it. Bottom line - he's denying you a basic human need AND trying/succeeding in making you feel bad about it.

I'm not saying file papers tomorrow. What I AM saying is start looking into it, and don't hide this from him. Tell him it's being considered and WHY.

As others have said, he knows you're not going anywhere currently, so what motivation does he have to make this marriage better for you? None.

And the most idiotic thing about all of this is that the entire marriage would be better - for him, not just you - if he only put on his big boy pants and acted like a man instead of a 9 year old.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Anon Pink said:


> While I can't personally attest to what it's like dating as a mature woman, I do know that I would never get serious with a man who sucked at sex.


Nothing wrong with sucking at sex, as long as one is willing to learn!


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Tortdog said:


> But for the fact that you said he did not come from a strong religious background, he sounds like he came from a strong religious background...


He really does...


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

alexm said:


> You don't have to. Let me be the first to tell you: divorce isn't any easier if you postpone it. Divorce isn't easier on your kids if they're 22, 30 or 45, or simply out of the house. And the longer you wait, the less time you have to enjoy life - something you're not doing a whole lot of right now.
> 
> I generally don't advocate divorce here, unless there's been infidelity or abuse.
> 
> ...


I think it's wise to start looking into that. And your last paragraph is spot on. everything would be better if he made a little effort. But of course he would tell you it's all my fault and with the cheating I did I should be the one worshiping him and fighting for him.


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

Whate rules?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BlueEyedWife said:


> The problem is that of course he's tired of me bringing the subject up. He believes we should act lovey dovey and things will fall into place. But I can't sweep stuff under the rug. When there's a problem I need to address it and find a way to make it better. He always shuts me down. Not sure how to address this...


"Husband, I'm not happy in our marriage any more. I don't want it to get worse and end up with us not being married any more because I love you and want this to work."


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BlueEyedWife said:


> The thing is he doesn't view the matter nearly close to this. He believes I'm the one in the wrong, 'destroying our family for an orgasm' (his words) but like you said it's a lot more than the sex and orgasm. It is exactly what you said. I couldn't have put it better. I just don't know how to make him see that.
> 
> what scares me and makes me sad is that I feel happier when he's not around because i feel I can be myself. Shouldn't it be the other way around? That your partner should make you feel the happiest and secure and all that? It has taken me a long time to figure it out and honestly part of me still can't believe it. the question is how do I navigate this for at least a decade more till the kids are out of the house..... It's going to be tough...


"Husband, what I want is my family and orgasms with you. Is that such a bad thing?"


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

BlueEyedWife said:


> That's what I keep telling him. Find me an article, a book, or someone who shares your point of you. Of course he hasn't come up with anything so far. Once when we were arguing and I mention D he threatened to expose my online chatting and the reason why we would D (the orgasm and so on). I told him I don't care, actually I would like for you to talk to someone about this and hear what they have to say.
> 
> I think if I ever end up with another man, it will be very different because I know what I am worth and what to look for. What I really want is to teach my kids all this so they never find themselves in a similar situation.
> 
> Thanks for your words. I really appreciate them.


Stop appealing to authority.

Give him a multiple choice decision because the status quo is not working for you:

A. Open up about sex and learn about GGG (Dan Savage -- google it). Maybe with a therapist.

B. Be OK with your wife sleeping with other men on the side.

C. Divorce.

Because there is no option D. (Status quo).


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I think it's wise to start looking into that. And your last paragraph is spot on. everything would be better if he made a little effort. But of course he would tell you it's all my fault and with the cheating I did I should be the one worshiping him and fighting for him.


And therein lies the abuse. Making you feel like the one at fault for his unwillingness to provide what should be a basic marital need.

Abuse comes in all forms, but it is the emotional that is hardest to see, and hardest to escape.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Hi, I just wanted to thank everyone again for taking time to read about my problems. You're making me feel better and empowered to move forward with your ideas and advice and to think a lot about things I hadn't considered. You are all awesome! I can't thank you enough!!


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

So... I told my H today that I was going to talk to a lawyer and we had I think the deepest conversation we've ever had. I was firm and armed with all the advice and things you mentioned and I didn't let me make me feel bad for wanting the things i want. He talked about sex more than I've ever heard him say, even said the word 'erection'. He said he wants to try to be more open in bed. I don't want to be too hopeful because i get my heart broken every time, but I have to try and see what happens. Do you think it's a mistake?


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

Absolutely you try and work it but set out some goals and make sure that there is progress. Still think that the two of you need sexual intimacy counseling.


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## Renee0414 (May 26, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> So... I told my H today that I was going to talk to a lawyer and we had I think the deepest conversation we've ever had. I was firm and armed with all the advice and things you mentioned and I didn't let me make me feel bad for wanting the things i want. He talked about sex more than I've ever heard him say, even said the word 'erection'. He said he wants to try to be more open in bed. I don't want to be too hopeful because i get my heart broken every time, but I have to try and see what happens. Do you think it's a mistake?


My 2 cents... dont forget out the position i mentioned, its not too pervy and it should get you there quick without a lot of effort on his part. Dont get too pervy on him. What helped me over come my modest and prudeness was slowly over time getting a little more sexual...very slowly. I would have never talked dirty, touched his balls, let him have anal, or let him spank me in the beginning. (12 years ago) sorry to share TMI but i just want to show you that opening up in bed when you are shy or have reservations is possible. It just takes a really long time. 

But the good news is, the long journey is fun and builds your relationship up. You will have fun seeing him open up a little more each year. And actually our opening up journey is still going! There are things we havent tried and the funny thing is, i am actually the pursuer of new things now. I am the one suggesting new things. That never would have happened if he didnt lovingly keep pushing my limits over the years. 

Your husband is not going to do a very good job the next time you have sex. But as long as he tries just a tiny bit more than he did the last time, keep having faith in him. If he loves you and doesnt want to lose you, he will open up eventually. And as soon as he realizes how happy it makes you, he is likely to snowball into being really open

I am so glad there is hope for you guys. 20 years is a lot to give up on! Especially if everything else is going okay! 

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## bankshot1993 (Feb 10, 2014)

Just a thought, I would still meet with a lawyer. I would even go so far as collecting information regarding options and arrangements. Most importantly he needs to know that you're doing this because he needs to know that your serious.

if he tells you what's the point if your just going to keep moving forward to divorce tell him the divorce can be stopped anytime as long as he keeps putting in the effort to be more considerate of your needs and not just his own.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

BlueEyedWife said:


> So... I told my H today that I was going to talk to a lawyer and we had I think the deepest conversation we've ever had. I was firm and armed with all the advice and things you mentioned and I didn't let me make me feel bad for wanting the things i want. He talked about sex more than I've ever heard him say, even said the word 'erection'. He said he wants to try to be more open in bed. I don't want to be too hopeful because i get my heart broken every time, but I have to try and see what happens. Do you think it's a mistake?


No, I don't think it's a mistake. But I do think you should set some goals and some time lines because talking ain't doing!

In two, six and 9 months what do you imagine sex will look like. Write it down and be specific. 

I personally think you should insist he see a sex therapist about his inhibition and repression. If he earnestly desires to become more open and more adventurous, he's going to need help. Somewhere along the line he came to understand that sex was dirty and wanting sex was wrong and shameful and this has shut him down all these years. That garbage doesn't go away without a concerted effort and real desire to make it go away.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Tortdog said:


> Absolutely you try and work it but set out some goals and make sure that there is progress. Still think that the two of you need sexual intimacy counseling.


I think you're right. I'm working on writing the goals


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

bankshot1993 said:


> Just a thought, I would still meet with a lawyer. I would even go so far as collecting information regarding options and arrangements. Most importantly he needs to know that you're doing this because he needs to know that your serious.
> 
> if he tells you what's the point if your just going to keep moving forward to divorce tell him the divorce can be stopped anytime as long as he keeps putting in the effort to be more considerate of your needs and not just his own.


Thanks for your advice. I'm thinking about this


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Renee0414 said:


> My 2 cents... dont forget out the position i mentioned, its not too pervy and it should get you there quick without a lot of effort on his part. Dont get too pervy on him. What helped me over come my modest and prudeness was slowly over time getting a little more sexual...very slowly. I would have never talked dirty, touched his balls, let him have anal, or let him spank me in the beginning. (12 years ago) sorry to share TMI but i just want to show you that opening up in bed when you are shy or have reservations is possible. It just takes a really long time.
> 
> But the good news is, the long journey is fun and builds your relationship up. You will have fun seeing him open up a little more each year. And actually our opening up journey is still going! There are things we havent tried and the funny thing is, i am actually the pursuer of new things now. I am the one suggesting new things. That never would have happened if he didnt lovingly keep pushing my limits over the years.
> 
> ...


I hope I can keep the optimism. It's going to be tough. Thanks for your words.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> No, I don't think it's a mistake. But I do think you should set some goals and some time lines because talking ain't doing!
> 
> In two, six and 9 months what do you imagine sex will look like. Write it down and be specific.
> 
> I personally think you should insist he see a sex therapist about his inhibition and repression. If he earnestly desires to become more open and more adventurous, he's going to need help. Somewhere along the line he came to understand that sex was dirty and wanting sex was wrong and shameful and this has shut him down all these years. That garbage doesn't go away without a concerted effort and real desire to make it go away.


I like the idea of writing down the goals. I'm very afraid to end up where we were before. And you maybe right about the sex therapy. I'll definitely keep that in mind.


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## sscygni (Apr 13, 2016)

Best of luck to you!


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

...and still a little mindful meditation would not hurt to temper frustration when progress stumbles a wee bit and you need to catch your breath. :grin2:

Wonderful steps forward with your communication! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

If I had gone down the road to divorce, my wife would have prepared for battle. It depends on the recipient (imagine a PA spuse). 

So walk carefully. You probably know your husband best.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> ...and still a little mindful meditation would not hurt to temper frustration when progress stumbles a wee bit and you need to catch your breath. :grin2:
> 
> Wonderful steps forward with your communication! :thumbup::thumbup:



I would really like to explore meditation. Not sure where to start though. Any ideas?


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Tortdog said:


> If I had gone down the road to divorce, my wife would have prepared for battle. It depends on the recipient (imagine a PA spuse).
> 
> So walk carefully. You probably know your husband best.


That's the thing. Sometimes i feel like I don't know him at all. But I think it has to do with all the arguing we've done lately which has built like a wall between us. We're trying to connect again but it's not easy and in the back of my mind there's always the thought that he's collecting stuff against me... So it's a good idea to be prepared just in case.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

BlueEyedWife said:


> I would really like to explore meditation. Not sure where to start though. Any ideas?


Understanding that meditation is a calming focus, it has to be under your conditions to be fulfilling, techniques and methods are not "one size fits all". 

I started 4 years ago, and the first 6 months were frustrating because I tried to do it in unquiet surroundings like my office with the door closed during lunch like I did at home, it wasn't until I removed myself to develop my best practices and tune out distractions was I able to return and learned distractions are what you allow them to be. I like to meditate morning and night, but when on days when life seems most challenging, realigning my mind and soul can take place anywhere, anytime it's needed. Some days several sessions are helpful when the expectations seem overwhelming. 5-10 minutes of practiced introspective is incredibly rewarding.

The below links talk about the basic 8 Tips to get started and a wonderfully simple explanation of the types to consider:

8 Tips to Get Started with Meditation | The Art of Living

23 Types of Meditation - Find The Best Techniques For You

Play around with them, I mixed and matched quite wonderfully to reach the results I sought... don't think of what you read as a manual, look to it as a mentoring that you can place in your life when things around you get a little unsettling.

There are often local groups of people who lead beginners and introduce varying techniques, if you struggle with moving forward these can help guide, many have come from where you and I are in our continuing search to strengthen and grow our emotional health.

Put your mind in the right place, the rest of your life will follow.

Be well my friend.


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## BlueEyedWife (May 28, 2016)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Understanding that meditation is a calming focus, it has to be under your conditions to be fulfilling, techniques and methods are not "one size fits all".
> 
> I started 4 years ago, and the first 6 months were frustrating because I tried to do it in unquiet surroundings like my office with the door closed during lunch like I did at home, it wasn't until I removed myself to develop my best practices and tune out distractions was I able to return and learned distractions are what you allow them to be. I like to meditate morning and night, but when on days when life seems most challenging, realigning my mind and soul can take place anywhere, anytime it's needed. Some days several sessions are helpful when the expectations seem overwhelming. 5-10 minutes of practiced introspective is incredibly rewarding.
> 
> ...


Thank you so so much. I have so much to learn. But I'm looking forward to it. I think it will help me greatly with my husband and my life.


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