# Terrible twos- Guy's angle, please!



## bingofuel (Jan 27, 2011)

Hey guys, would appreciate some ideas..

My 2 year old is definitely going through this phase right now. She throws tantrums, defiantly says NO all the time etc...
I can handle it most of the time, but I seem to be getting a special crap end.
When I greet her in the morning and when I get home from work, she tells me to go away and yells for mommy. She hits and pinches me when I try to hug her and cries and screams when I try to pick her up. Yesterday morning, she wanted nothing to do with home and wanted to go to Nanna's house. Daddy has always done the post-bath jammy routine, but lately, she cries and screams for mommy to do it. One of her favorite things is to build castles with her blocks and daddy is pretty good at it, but recently, mommy has to do it. I try to not let it bother me, but it hurts deep inside. I know that our marriage is far from perfect but we rarely argue-and when we do, we don't do it in front of her. Most of the time we just carry on as usual. There is no abuse or anything like that.

:scratchhead:

What gives?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I am not a man. I do have a great deal of child care experience. Can I answer anyway?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

bingofuel said:


> Hey guys, would appreciate some ideas..
> 
> My 2 year old is definitely going through this phase right now. She throws tantrums, defiantly says NO all the time etc...
> I can handle it most of the time, but I seem to be getting a special crap end.
> ...


Assuming you're being honest and not holding back something about nightly beatings, I'd say its just a phase.

Are you more of a disciplinarian than your wife? Even if so - I would assume its a phase and there will even likely be a day when you get to be the "favorite".

And one warning - two's are terrible, but I don't think 3s are any better!


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## bingofuel (Jan 27, 2011)

Sure, any suggestions would be appreciated. My wife says it's just normal "twos" behavior but I doubt she realizes how bad I feel about it.
Also, I'm not sure the best way to handle it when it happens- I usually just retreat and try again later...


No. There are no beatings or even harsh words...

The only times I yelled at her was when she was playing with the power cords or when she was going to put the toilet brush in her mouth!
I feel my wife is more lenient than I when it comes to most things- I think one of the biggest problems is that our daughter sleeps in our bed still.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Okay, not a man, but I'll chime in anyhow. 

As the mother of a 2 year old and 8 year old, I can tell you it IS a phase. My kids both had mommy phases at this age, my daughter even more than my son. My husband has always worked nights, so I would go to work in the morning when everyone was asleep and my H would wake her up and take her to daycare before work. She'd be calling for mommy and he'd answer the door and get told to "Go away!" or "Leave me alone!" She'd also cry if I left the room, or if Daddy tried to play with her. He felt like scum. I could see the hurt, but do nothing but remind him that our 8 year-old now adores him and he used to be a momma's boy. 

My H switched jobs a few months ago and iss home more at night, and now we're only a few months away from turning 3, and she's become more loving towards her Daddy. She still prefers me, but most of the time she's glad to see him in the morning, and she gets excited when he comes home. I remember my H actually saying, "She loves me!" when he came home and she yelled "Daddy!". They now play together and he's even kept her home for the day to hang out together. She cries when I leave, just pouts when he leaves, so still a stronger bond to me. But she does love her daddy. 

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Your wife should support you though in those daddy/daughter rituals. When your daughter asks for Mommy, have her come and reassure her but then still let you have that time, even if she has to just stay in the vicinity. Also, the more one on one time you can get, the better. Not sure what your schedules are and how much time you get with just the two of you, but she needs to see you as a caregiver for her, a partner to your wife, and she needs to see the love given between all members of the family. And she'll come around. In no time at all she'll be Daddy's Lil' Girl!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I can empathize wrt how you feel about it. That stinks. BUT that is not the issue. The issue is what is best for her and what do you do about it.

In my opinion, what is best for her is for her to understand that you are every bit as much the parent as Mom is even if you don't have the pleasure of spending as much time with her. As such, retreating is not in her best interest. Screaming, at two, is not the same as screaming at newborn. At newborn, when they cry, they need food, cuddling... something. At two sometimes what they need is for a parent to calmly express to them that yes I understand you are in distress but I know what is best and here is how it is going to be. 

Block play I would suggest Mom not rush in. But you don't continue to take the abuse either. Mom is busy right now. Would you like to play with me or by yourself. <-- Limited choices.

Bath time. Again Mom is busy. I am giving you bath tonight. Would you like to continue or do you need a break to get yourself together. <--- That is called a limited choice. The first time, when she continues to pitch a world class fit, you take her out of the tub so she cannot hurt herself. Then you wait. As she screams waiting for you to cave. You won't. If time runs out and there is no time for bath any longer, you say Oh it looks like bath time is over. We will try again tomorrow. Rinse and repeat forever until she GETS that screaming is not going to get you to cave.

I have a standard set of book recommendations. I will put them at the end. But my over all advice is to get in the game. You don't want to abdicate your parenthood now lest you become second fiddle to Mom until high school. Since she is a girl, you may not get her back. Get in the game. Learn what you are doing. Cuz you can be every bit as awesome a parent as Mom. Maybe better! 

Amazon.com: Discipline for Life : Getting it Right with Children (9781887069069): Madelyn Swift: Books

Amazon.com: Setting Limits: How to Raise Responsible, Independent Children by Providing Clear Boundaries (Revised and Expanded Second Edition) (0086874512122): Robert J. Mackenzie: Books

Amazon.com: How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk (9780380811960): Adele Faber, Elaine Mazlish: Books


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## cherrypie18 (Feb 21, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> I can empathize wrt how you feel about it. That stinks. BUT that is not the issue. The issue is what is best for her and what do you do about it.
> 
> In my opinion, what is best for her is for her to understand that you are every bit as much the parent as Mom is even if you don't have the pleasure of spending as much time with her. As such, retreating is not in her best interest. Screaming, at two, is not the same as screaming at newborn. At newborn, when they cry, they need food, cuddling... something. At two sometimes what they need is for a parent to calmly express to them that yes I understand you are in distress but I know what is best and here is how it is going to be.
> 
> ...


Great tips I might be needing those in a year or so because my daughter's already started with the screaming and sometimes tantrums... :scratchhead:


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I say take the nightly beatings for a spin and see what kind of results you get ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

cherrypie18 said:


> Great tips I might be needing those in a year or so because my daughter's already started with the screaming and sometimes tantrums... :scratchhead:


At about 2, sometimes as late as 3, you really have to distinguish between the I WANT MY WAY (which is a genuine want, no intent to diminish their distress) and something like a cry of pain. Pain almost never presents as screams unless there is blood and limbs flying around.

Yes I know you want a cookie before dinner. With your firm conviction that a cookie will ruin their healthful dinner, you stand firm that they can have one AFTER. 

The rub is not that it is such a big deal that they get a cookie before dinner (and if you feel it is a fine idea just say yes). The problem arises when they learn, because they are very good students of cause and effect, that screaming can turn a no into a yes.... If you are not paying attention, you get a kid who studies far more effectively than you ever guessed how to turn a no into a yes. It is in neither your or her best interest for THAT pattern to develop!


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

I may not be accurate here, but a couple of things that ring true in our house are:

Whoever seems to be the most calm and fun are the one that get's the kids attention. So when I am playful and fun, calm and not angry with them, they are daddy's boy's. When it's my partner, they become her favourite. At a young age at 2, all they want to do is play and have fun. (and quite often, messy fun).

So get paper and paint brushes out, let them get dirty, play outside in the garden with toy wheel barrows etc etc. (This also helps their immune system grow too).

Terrible two's in most cases is a given, in my eyes its a myth.

Its a little like relationship's and where power struggles ensue, kids seem to respond the same, if you are calm, authoritive and fun/playful they do respond. Shout or say the wrong thing, they do the opposite (well it does in our house).

There is a programme on the TV over here in England that originates from over in the states (Super Nanny). The amount of tips you can get from this is unbelievable.

Kids at that age like routine, and also like to start getting their own independance, let them help out with household chores, they really do get a sense of being helpfull (such as getting the dirty clothes and help putting them in the washing machine). Small thing, put to a kid, they feel as though they are doing something "Grown up".

Most important piece of advice I have already given, be fun, at 2 onwards, everything they want is to have fun, so make everything fun.

Also, not saying you have relationship issues, but another biggie is, ensure that mummy and daddy are happy in front of them, they pick up on any issue, and if mummy and daddy are happy, they get a sense of happiness from the house and feel safe.

Super Nanny, one of the biggest helpers we have had and we have never ever met her (of course, their are real rougues on that show, but in every single case, its how their parents react that actually cause the issues), sorry to be blunt about that.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Neil said:


> Terrible two's in most cases is a given, in my eyes its a myth.


I agree that its a myth, because it leads you to believe its going to get instantly better when they turn three!!! Our oldest was MUCH harder to deal with at three than two. 

Larger vocabulary = more ways to say "NO!"

Seriously though, I liked VTs post above. If your kid wants Mom at bathtime, but you always do it, don't let your child dictate that you guys switch things around.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Neil said:


> Terrible two's in most cases is a given, in my eyes its a myth.
> 
> Its a little like relationship's and where power struggles ensue, kids seem to respond the same, if you are calm, authoritive and fun/playful they do respond. Shout or say the wrong thing, they do the opposite (well it does in our house).


I agree 150% that shout or punish is the wrong thing. It deflects the issue from whatever the issue is to the child's (rightful) hurt feelings. Calm, authoritative is necessary. Fun and playful is not always necessary, though sometimes can be a useful tool. If you read How to Talk from the above book list, there is a scene played out in which a child wants a certain cereal that is not in the house. In one response, the parent says we don't have it. The 2 year old, of course, doesn't care. She wants it. Repeats I want cereal X. Parent eventually gets upset. WE DON"T HAVE ANY FOR PETE'S SAKE. In the other response the parent playfuls it up. I wish he had a box. No I wish we had 2 boxes, 15 boxes. I wish we had a whole backYARD full of cereal X! Wouldn't THAT be cool. Kid never even develops a tantrum, starts laughing and asks for another cereal.

BUT picture the kid who won't clean up the toys. You try the funnies, but it does not work. Eventually you have to just be firm. People who play clean up. When you are ready to clean up, then you can come out of your room.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I agree that its a myth, because it leads you to believe its going to get instantly better when they turn three!!! Our oldest was MUCH harder to deal with at three than two.


I don't think it is a myth. They develop around 2 or 3 from baby to something else. During that transition, if the parent is not paying attention, they may still respond as if the child is a baby. When a baby cries, you respond! But when you get to 2 or 3, they start to use cries for things which the parent should respond with limit setting to. Often the parent does not. Terrible ensues.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

As the mother of seven, there is something really important about the "terrible two" age that no one has mentioned yet. It is a developmental stage for the child, and usually it starts when the child realizes they are SEPARATE from their mother. 

I mean no disrespect to dads here--but as a rule of thumb to a baby, they may not even be able to articulate a need but all they need do is whimper and mom figures it out and fixes it. So in a weird way, babies somewhat view their mom as an "extension" of them. Enter the "terrible twos." Suddenly the baby realizes that they are APART from mom and not linked at all. That means they can say 'yes' or say 'no'...and they can do what they want or what mom wants! 

Thus, maybe 9 times out of 10 this is not a matter of "defiance" so much as it is a two-year old (without the decades of reference that an adult has) trying to practice saying "no" and practice doing what THEY want. Part of the parenting job at this stage of development is indeed to let her know that she can decide who does and doesn't touch her and when...that's for her to have her own little boundaries as she grows up...and yet to simultaneously help her see that sometimes it is appropriate to say "no" and sometimes it's not. So at two, let her have her chance to say she doesn't want to hug you--that doesn't mean she doesn't love you; it means "I have control over who touches me and when and how." If she says "Don't hug me" you can ask "Oh would you like a kiss instead?" or "Should I hug you now or later?" But when you say "Time for bed. Go into your bed now" and she says "no" that would be a good point to say "Honey sometimes you can say 'no' and that's you being your own self. But other times when mom and dad say to do something you do need to obey us. This is an obey time and I do mean it. So you can choose to obey and go to your bed now or you can choose to be in the corner for 5 minutes. Which do you pick?" If she pitches a fit, usually that's her attempt to "get her way" by you paying attention to her fit and giving in...so usually what I would do is: "Okay a temper tantrum is not an acceptable option and I will not listen to it. So you lay in your bed and scream but I'm going now. When you're done with your temper I'll come and we'll talk about this, and you will still have to go to bed." 

And yeah--this is a phase because at some point she will figure out she's separate and some of the "rules" of when she can and can not say 'No'. Right now the very MAIN lesson she needs to learn is that if you do say 'no" (can I have a cookie? NO) that you will be consistent and her temper tantrums will not make you give in. If she learns that at 2yo--she will periodically try again to see if you've changed but overall life will be easier. 

So a) give her choices so she can say 'yes' or 'no' and 
b) when you say 'no' as a parent...mean it.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> And yeah--this is a phase because at some point she will figure out she's separate and some of the "rules" of when she can and can not say 'No'.


Not if the parents don't realize that they are supposed to guide this process. I had so many parents of my day care children who thought their twos and threes were babies still who jumped at each howl. 


> Right now the very MAIN lesson she needs to learn is that if you do say 'no" (can I have a cookie? NO) that you will be consistent and her temper tantrums will not make you give in.


Read that paragraph Mr OP over and over.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Some great advice given already from vt and affaircare.

My #3 is just hitting the terrible twos, and I have to say, it has been different each time. #1 was relatively easygoing and the tantrums were few and far between, tbh I didn't have to worry much about putting my foot down although there was a distinct preference for mummy first, then it swapped to daddy who could do no wrong

#2 hit the twos in all her glory, Tantrums in the supermarket, street, you name it! She was the type who when "tantrumming" needed a cuddle and that calmed her down.

#3 is a little different in the best parental response so far seems to be ignoring the tantrum to play out, walking away firmly but gently and waiting until said toddler comes back to me, usually happy as larry and seemingly has completely forgotten about whatever was the problem! There is a distinct swap in preference to me from daddy which like you has hurt daddy a little as they're usually inseparable.

The best approach is to not show your feelings and stand firm. Clear and consistent boundaries so they feel secure. I gather it's also partly because their will and wants have obviously developed faster than their own ability to fulfil them IYSWIM... Ie they know they want a biscuit, they know where they are, but they know mummy or daddy stands in the way of it and they just know they want what they want and don't have the comprehension to understand logic or common sense in that no biscuits before dinner, or they've already had two, or whatever.

As had been mentioned, keep your hand in. Don't let her dictate the terms, she needs to know how things are and that you are the grown up. The swap to her mummy preference, from my experience, will ease off eventually once she gets through this particular time which is why it's important to keep doing what you're doing.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Like people say it's a phase. But you still have to keep trying. My littlest did the same thing for a couple of months. But I still kept on picking her up and trying to play with her even if she was yelling at me to go away and trying to bite me.

Eventually it went away and now she wants me more than my wife. Well, she's pretty smart so she knows how to play both ends of the sticks to get what she wants lol.

BTW, now she tells daddy she loves him everyday but hardly ever says it to my wife. Maybe it's because during that phase I would always tell her that daddy loves her and MAKE her say it back to me.


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## Zammo (Aug 9, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, not a man, but I'll chime in anyhow.


Your avatar does an excellent job of condoning violence.


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## bingofuel (Jan 27, 2011)

??? Who's avatar?


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I know I'm not a guy, but i do know a bit about children. Two year olds do this, I have a small son, and I work with children. It's not being done to hurt you, they simply don't have the capacity to see beyond their own immediate needs.

Just persist with spending as much time with her when you are home as possible, and if possible send your wife out shopping on her own. You will probably find that if she knows mum isn't there, she will in fact stop doing this untill mum returns. Just work on strengthening your bond with her.

Next week it may be that she only wants daddy, and when she is a teen she will hate you both.


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